# Bryophytes



## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

There are some very interesting ones out there. I just wanted to share some of mine that I've been growing. Many of these are temperate species that have been growing just fine in my vivs long term. I'm mainly posting this for manuran as he was interested in seeing some pics. 

I don't really know the names of most of these unfortunately. Maybe manuran might have an idea

Unknown centipede looking liverwort









A nice fissidens moss species









A colony of fissidens bryoides

















A strange compact tree liverwort species with tips that curl downward









More of the compact tree liverwort with a tiny ricchardia species

















Plagiomnium species

















Another unidentified fissidens species. Very compact and thick growth









I have no clue, but it's cool and translucent 









Another strange centipede like liverwort

















A dicranium species









Another really cool centipede looking species with leaves that are more planer to each other than flat to the ground. One of my favorites









And one of my new kiddos. Got 3 of them from sports doc. 









Manuran, any idea what any of these could be?

Josh


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## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

Wow, those are bitchin!  I was curious about the mosses/liverworts in some mantella pics you posted. Thanks for the tentative IDs, very cool. What species is the jungle cacti is in the last pic? JVK


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Haha, I have a lot of them, always figured they were just good ol moss. haha.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

stemcellular said:


> Haha, I have a lot of them, always figured they were just good ol moss. haha.


They are just good ol moss  the ebanoui you sent me are living in that moss. They love it. 

Jkv, the cactus is some type of rhipsalis. I don't know the species however.


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## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

Thanks, I was just curious as I've wanted to use a Rhipsalis for the Melanophryniscus tank. Just was not sure if any of the "Home Depot species"
would be appropriate. Looks like that species can handle some consistent humidity without rotting. It also looks like your tanks must be awesome, full tank shots sure would be nice...  JVK


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## Loui1203 (Sep 29, 2011)

Thanks for sharing! 
Very nice moss.


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

Moss and liverworts FTW!!! [ for the less web versed, FTW = For The Win  ] 

I wish I could get moss to grow on the background of my paludarium, but it's not humid enough since it's open top


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Best post I've seen in a while. VERY NICE!


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## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

Maybe I could get an ID on this one as well.  Sorry if this is a hijack.JVK


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Not sure, but it's nice lookin stuff! I have some of it in my vivs. I have another species that has very similar growth but is dark dark green.


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

That looks like mine (unidentified)
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/52139-liverwort-tiny-bright-green-pics.html
This I now consider a nuisance. Somebody mentioned, and it is true, that when it gets happy and spreads, it forms a waterproof mat. And it is currently spreading all over my big tank, and blocking the growth of selfseeding sinningias and creeping ferns. 
At this point I wish I knew of a way to stop it!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

A diluted peroxide solution kills it, but will probably kill your mosses at the same time


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Why don't you just pick it out by hand? It won't get rid of it, but it would seriously reduce its spread and give your seeds a chance to germinate.


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

I'll experiment outside the tank first. And hopefully take and post pictures. 
Frogparty, starting with OTC 3% antiseptic peroxide, does it need further dilution?


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## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

candm519 said:


> That looks like mine (unidentified)
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/52139-liverwort-tiny-bright-green-pics.html
> This I now consider a nuisance. Somebody mentioned, and it is true, that when it gets happy and spreads, it forms a waterproof mat. And it is currently spreading all over my big tank, and blocking the growth of selfseeding sinningias and creeping ferns.
> At this point I wish I knew of a way to stop it!


I'm really proud of this little liverwort!  That's about a years growth, and I wouldn't mind a bit if it takes over the tank  (granted, there's nothing really cool in the tank that potentially could be taken over) This tank is lighted with a reef fixture, and the liverwort literally glows (1st pic). Very "bioluminescent" and "Avataresque". JVK


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## gardennub (Dec 10, 2011)

Those are some neat pics. Nice seeing a different types all in one place! Thanks!!!


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

It is really pretty, cheerful and brightens up any area. I'm just being stubborn because it won't share space with my tiny sinningias. There are lots of other places in my tank that it likes and can be happy.

For me, it seems to love growing on sphagnum moss, long strands or milled, so part of my experiment will involve testing vermiculite as a possible substitute in soil mix. Maybe S. muscicola will like it, and the liverwort won't, and I'll be home free. Or perhaps a little artwork using peroxide and a paintbrush will suffice to let tiny plantlets get a root-hold before it grows back.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm not sure the "centipede looking liverwort" and "cool and translucent" are actually liverwort... I've got an "aquatic" moss that decided to climb up the side of the glass in the tank (with a low water level) which looks just like that. Could it actually be some of the moss that was growing around it?

jkooiman - it will be interesting to see if that's liverworts or baby ferns  Every time they pop up I always wonder which way it will go...


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> I'm not sure the "centipede looking liverwort" and "cool and translucent" are actually liverwort... I've got an "aquatic" moss that decided to climb up the side of the glass in the tank (with a low water level) which looks just like that. Could it actually be some of the moss that was growing around it?
> 
> jkooiman - it will be interesting to see if that's liverworts or baby ferns  Every time they pop up I always wonder which way it will go...


They are indeed liverworts and not moss. These are liverwort species native to washington state that I have been growing for some time now. Trust me. They are not mosses. I found a website that identified them. I'll see if I can find it again.


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## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

KeroKero said:


> jkooiman - it will be interesting to see if that's liverworts or baby ferns  Every time they pop up I always wonder which way it will go...


I wondered that myself, but it's been growing in there for a year +/-, and hasn't thrown any fronds. I haven't the slightest clue how to tell the difference between the two (juvenile fern/liverworts). On the really zoomed in macro-shot I edited the pic a bit to get clarity on veining/pores for that reason. JVK


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi Josh,

Sorry I'm having a hard time seeing the leaf arrangement in your photos. I think maybe because they are so wet? Your first "centipede" liverwort I believe is a Plagiochila sp.

Does your tree liverwort have more than 1 plane of leaves? I can't quite tell. If there is more than 1 plane, it would be a moss. The lower branches look like they are actually whorls

Your Fissidens are very nice and look like they are doing well. 

Sorry, I'm not any real help.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Chuck - I'd be interested in seeing pics of leaf arrangements to compare liverwort vs. moss. The similarities between the liverwort pics and the moss I have had me making sure my thin translucent growth was really part of the moss, and it is. It's interesting how similar they look! Darn you embrophyta for looking so similar with your lack of vascularness!

JVK - sadly I don't either (probably something you could figure out under a scope? maybe?). I figure if it throws up fronds, it's a fern! If not... er... it may still be a fern but maybe a liverwort? If it spreads like wildfire and produces mats (like how really happy riccia or moss does) then I'd go with liverwort. If it just kinda sprouts randomly like that and grows a bit bigger but doesn't really do anything... it may be a fern. I've had baby ferns pop up and take a loooooooooong time before finally kicking it into high gear and proving they were ferns. 

Or they can be like Süßwassertang - a fern gametophyte that never turn into ferns because of some genetic quirk  Bwhahahaha!


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi Corey,
I'll look for some pics for you to compare. But, leafy liverworts have 3 rows of leaves. 2 main large ones in the same plane (just going left and right) and a third leaf that is very small on the underside. Usually so small that you really have to look for it. There is also no midrib in the leaf of a liverwort.
Even "flat" looking species like Taxiphyllum and Vescicularia, if you magnify them enough, the leaves are coming off the stems at slightly different angles in a spiral arrangement. I guess if you have enough magnification there should be a midrib in each leaf as well. 

Also the sporophytes are different. Moss have those persistent capsules while liverworts will release all the spores at once and then the sporophyte just collapses. 

Hope this helps. There is actually a lot of info online.


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

Manuran said:


> Even "flat" looking species like Taxiphyllum and Vescicularia


Sorry should have written, "flat" looking species of moss...
I am sure Corey knew what I meant, but for others that didn't


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

josh_r said:


> They are indeed liverworts and not moss. These are liverwort species native to washington state that I have been growing for some time now. Trust me. They are not mosses. I found a website that identified them. I'll see if I can find it again.


Definitely agree with you. I should be able to figure a couple of those out for you.

Very nice getting them to grow in your tanks!


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

thedude said:


> Definitely agree with you. I should be able to figure a couple of those out for you.
> 
> Very nice getting them to grow in your tanks!


Thanks Adam!! I would love to know what some of these are. I found a few on a website but I have failed in attempting to find the site again. 

Manuran. The leaves are on a single plane with that tree liverwort. A major reason I know these are liverworts and not mosses is many of them have produced their weird little sex organs that mosses lack. From this, many of them are starting to go great guns in my tanks. 

Speaking of leaves being on the same plane, manuran, that really nice liverwort that resembles the fissidens you sent me is no longer growing that way. It is growing much more like a typical moss. You would never know it was the same plant. I'll post a pic along with some more pics of the "centipede" liverworts. 

Josh


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Here is the Schistochila you sent me manuran. It is growing with almost whorls of leaves instead of a single plane










I'm growing the centipede lookin liverwort in flat Rubbermaid esque containers with blue transparent lids. I swear the blue lids are somehow encouraging nicer growth! I had grown it in another container and in vivs as well. It still grows better under these blue lids, even with only a single light at near 18 inches away. 










It's spreading across everything


















I also have this very cool, thick stemmed star moss growing quite well in here. I don't know where it came from but it spreads via runners. I really like it. 


















I have a few other nice native mosses in another container just like these that I've been growing. I'll have to post some pics of these as well. 

Josh


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi Josh,
The Schistochila has a "double" leaf, which is almost unique to the genus. So it has 2 uneven lobes to the leaf, making it look like it has many leaves. Once the plant settles in and orients to the light, you should see it regain a more liverwort look. I also notice that when kept in a really constantly wet terrarium or even submerged in an aquarium, the leaves take on a more random look. They are still coming from a single plane, but the lobes spread out more. At least I think this is what is happening, and in these cases it stays this way. 
As to your tree liverwort, yeah I just couldn't tell what is going on there, as I had a difficult time seeing the details.

To have such nice pieces of the other star moss growing out of your "centipede" liverwort, I'm guessing a few stowaway pieces came with your liverwort. I think it could be a Mnium or maybe a Plagiomnium. I would lean toward the former.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Manuran said:


> Hi Josh,
> The Schistochila has a "double" leaf, which is almost unique to the genus. So it has 2 uneven lobes to the leaf, making it look like it has many leaves. Once the plant settles in and orients to the light, you should see it regain a more liverwort look. I also notice that when kept in a really constantly wet terrarium or even submerged in an aquarium, the leaves take on a more random look. They are still coming from a single plane, but the lobes spread out more. At least I think this is what is happening, and in these cases it stays this way.
> As to your tree liverwort, yeah I just couldn't tell what is going on there, as I had a difficult time seeing the details.
> 
> To have such nice pieces of the other star moss growing out of your "centipede" liverwort, I'm guessing a few stowaway pieces came with your liverwort. I think it could be a Mnium or maybe a Plagiomnium. I would lean toward the former.



When I collected the liverwort from a road cut, there was a single piece of the star moss in it. The moss has now spread considerably. I can see little runners along side the container where new ones have popped up. I'm hoping to introduce this one to a viv soon and see how it does. One thing I am noticing about many of these liverworts is they like lower light levels. They have shown much better growth and form after the plants have crowded them out.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Here are a few other things I've been messin around with for a while. 

This is a moss that grows on oak in the siskiyou mts of California. It resembles fern and spreads via runners. I like this one a lot. It hasn't done too much for me however aside from get eaten by woodlice. 

















Not sure what this is but it's really cool but unfortunately doesn't do much aside from hang on. 










More of the tree liverwort with the downward turned tips. 









Another tree liverwort. This one is actually doing descent and is growing. It has produced some sporophytes as you can see in the pic. 










This is a clump of ricchardia and moss that I found and is doing really well for me. 

















I also have an arid species of ricchardia that is native to the Sonoran desert that does very well in vivaria. I'll have to post some pics of it when it spreads. 

Josh


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Another nice little clump of fissidens bryoides popped up in one of the vivs. I really like this stuff










Josh


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I'd love to get some of that! Got any to spare? It would look great growing with my Ornithocephalus on a piece of vine


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

frogparty said:


> I'd love to get some of that! Got any to spare? It would look great growing with my Ornithocephalus on a piece of vine


Yeah I can send you some. It would be easier to send you some soil with spore and then rub the soil on whatever you want it to grow on. I can also send you some small chunks of it and it will spread.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

It is nice to see how some of that stuff is growing! Definately easier to tell some of that stuff apart when it's sporing for you... so hard to tell the difference sometimes LOL. I love the fissidens... I've always liked their shape but was bummed when the stuff I have access to is purely aquatic  May have to pester you for some at some point!

Corey


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> It is nice to see how some of that stuff is growing! Definately easier to tell some of that stuff apart when it's sporing for you... so hard to tell the difference sometimes LOL. I love the fissidens... I've always liked their shape but was bummed when the stuff I have access to is purely aquatic  May have to pester you for some at some point!
> 
> Corey


Good news Corey! The aquatic stuff can be grown out of the water as well! I have an "aquatic" species growing in my viv pretty well. Most of the species you see for sale are actually not aquatic, but can be grown just fine either way. My favorite is bryoides which you can't buy online unfortunately  I can definitely hook you up with some fissidens. Just pay shipping.


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

It is amazing reading posts like this on DB. I hope there is always someone like you folks that are concerned and interested in the smallest of subjects in nature. Thanks.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Shipping works, pm on the way...

I think the one fissidens I've tried is true aquatic - it will go dormant out of water and refuses to grow above the water line. I figured there were others that weren't so picky (seen pictures of them even...) but the fish hobby isn't always the best place to look for those LOL.That being said there are only 1 or 2 "true aquatic" mosses out of over a dozen in the fish hobby... and a number of terrestrials sold as aquatic that just tank a long time to drown :/ 

Long live the bryophytes!


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> Shipping works, pm on the way...
> 
> I think the one fissidens I've tried is true aquatic - it will go dormant out of water and refuses to grow above the water line. I figured there were others that weren't so picky (seen pictures of them even...) but the fish hobby isn't always the best place to look for those LOL.That being said there are only 1 or 2 "true aquatic" mosses out of over a dozen in the fish hobby... and a number of terrestrials sold as aquatic that just tank a long time to drown :/
> 
> Long live the bryophytes!


You are very right about most "aquatic" species in the hobby. What species of fissidens did you have??? I'll be sending you a few other mosses to work with too 

Josh


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Ugh, thought I responded to this already... sorry!

I was talking specifically about _Fissidens fontanus_ which I have collected locally (it is a US native after all!) and the samples I've gotten from the fish hobby. When I came across this locally and got over my shock, I kept track of it over the seasons. When water levels got low it died off (but could grow back later when submerged again - but this also could have just been the parts that staid submerged taking over), and it tended to only grow where it would be in water the majority of the time. It was also in a rather large stream that never dried out or froze solid, so it was always in moving water. It was found ONLY in the water, and on the "downstream" side of rocks. A bit of a bummer since I LOVE the shape of it that gives it the "pheonix moss" name - looking like a feather! I've not tried the other few species that have made it into the hobby since they are bloody expensive to attempt an experiment that could ultimately kill them! _F. bryoides_ was brought up as a good one to try terrestrially, but it's not like people were selling it online...

Only one other species of "aquatic" moss in the fish hobby is a true aquatic that I know of (weeping I think?) but it's one of the species that has fallen out of the american fish hobby it seems so there isn't too much of a risk of people getting it, as long as they stay away from Fissidens they should have a great moss. I mean seriously... what mosses when left in a bag with some water and fell to the bottom of a plant stand (low light to say the least!) and sat there for more than 6 months would actually be perfectly happy? Well, just about any fish moss it seems, as I have some Java and Taiwan moss that just went through that!

I can't wait to see if the mini xmas moss I got a sample of will go terrestrial... it's about as rare as those new Fissidens (F. jeppi and the mini) and I'm waiting for it to grow larger before breaking some off and trying to convert it to "emersed". It's a tiny, delicate looking moss that may not have some of the annoying habits of Java in a terrarium (when in super humid it can grow like grass, but in better air flow and a little bit lower humidity it stays in a nice lawn for me).


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Kero

The fontanus I have was found locally in a steam very similar to what you described. It typically grows right around the waters edge and splash zones. It will grow submersed or emersed. If grown emersed, it must be kept very wet all the time otherwise it wants to turn black and die. I had some of mine do this, but it eventually recovered and started growing again. Most of the new growth is around the base of the rock where it meets the glass, where more humidity and moisture is present. This would be a very cool moss to have growing at the edge of a running water feature. I have grown fontanus and a couple other "aquatic"'species in seeps and water features many years ago and they did very well. Bryoides, for me, does better in less humid and less saturated areas than the others. But you really just have to play with them and find what they like. They are all very slow growing and can be sensitive to change. I would definitely love to establish these in the frog hobby.


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## ritersofly (Oct 23, 2010)

idk why but from reading this thread and from my own experience it seems that alot of mosses that come from the pacific northwest do well in vivs... I once cut some moss from my backyard, co2'd it and put it in a viv, it started to grow, it wasn't the prettiest looking thing ( it grew long instead of spreading) but then it started to spread onto the clay bg and stuff and I looked at the viv a while back( a friend owns it now) and the moss is still spreading over the bg... maybe cause it's so wet around here the moss is ok with the climate in a viv...? But you would think it needs a dormancy period.....? Maybe the moss can adapt like how riccia, christmas,and java moss can adopt to being either in or out of water...? idk.... cool thread!


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Contrary to popular belief, temperate mosses don't need a dormancy. They do need consistency in the viv though. The most important thing Ive noticed is consistent cooler temps. LEDs would be great for temperate mosses.


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