# Yet another mini orchid terrarium



## inka4040

So I've been collecting the various parts for this tank over the past few months, and finally got the last box of plants in today, so here it is. Gotta say, working within the constrains of the 8x8x12 exo terra was an immense challenge. All said, I think Dizzle's terrarium makes waaay better use of the space, somewhat because of all the extra mounting area afforded by his cork round background. I was thinking about doing something more along those lines, but opted for the tree fern panels because it was easier to accommodate the driftwood centerpiece I was dead set on. Never mind the fact that once everything's wet down, you can't even see any of the hardscape against the dark background, lol.











In any case, here's a rundown of the plant list. Pardon any spelling mistakes.

Ascocentrum pumilum
Bulbophyllum odontopetalum
Davallia repens
Davallia parvula
Haraella retrocalla
Lemmaphyllum microphyllum
Lepanthes telipogoniflora
Macodes petola
Masdevallia wendlandiana (This one looked absolutely incredible out of the box, I pulled it out of the plastic bag it was in, and all but 3 leaves fell off... Womp wommp...) 
Pleurothallis alata
Pleurothallis allenni
Pleurothallis brighamii
Pleurothallis grobyi
Pleurothallis spp.
Pyrosellia nummularifolia
Riccardia spp. 

The macodes might eventually end up in another tank, as it kind of screws with the sense of scale in this arrangement. When/if that happens, I'll probably end up taking another page from Dizzle, and replacing it with some micr-mini sinnigias.


----------



## ICS523

nice, ive really loved all the mini orchid tanks people have made.


----------



## Dizzle21

Sweet tank man! I really like the tree fern. I agree with the macodes swap it out for sinnglia. There small spread quick since they have seed pods every few weeks. 
Tank came out great tho i cant wait for more micro tanks on here


----------



## inka4040

Thanks, guys! I really appreciate the feedback. Got a couple micro mini sinningias in mind for the bottom area. Do you think i'd be better off picking up a seed pod and sowing them myself, or buying tubers and growing out adult plants? I've heard the seeds need to be super crazy fresh to work with any success.


----------



## hydrophyte

Looking good!


----------



## frogparty

Dizzle, dont forget I want some of those seed pods of yours


----------



## Dizzle21

frogparty said:


> Dizzle, dont forget I want some of those seed pods of yours


I just got a Flower yesterday so in a week or 2 it should be a pod. Pretty much just sprinkle them on anything and they pop up like moss spores.

Inka i Would try to get a whole plant if possible, If from seed it takes a 3-4 months to get to a decent size.


----------



## inka4040

Thanks for the info, Dillon! I found a guy who's willing to send me tubers of a few different micro mini's, so it looks like the macodes will be looking for new digs. Thanks for looking, folks!


----------



## Spaff

I'll be interested to hear if your Masd. wendlandiana recovers. I got one when I first got into Pleurothallids and had a similar experience as you. Mine never came back and tanked pretty quickly. It's supposed to be one of the "warm" growing Masdies, but I think they are just pretty picky overall as a genus.


----------



## inka4040

Spaff said:


> I'll be interested to hear if your Masd. wendlandiana recovers. I got one when I first got into Pleurothallids and had a similar experience as you. Mine never came back and tanked pretty quickly. It's supposed to be one of the "warm" growing Masdies, but I think they are just pretty picky overall as a genus.


Hmm. It lost the rest of its leaves, so I think this might work out the same way. The plant didn't seem to have much appreciable root mass, so I'm unsure of whether it'll be making a comeback either. In any case, I'll let you know what it does.


----------



## inka4040

Removed the Macodes, and the wendlandiana seems like it's a lost cause. The root ball has some funky looking mosses growing all over, so it stays for now. Taking the jewel out really allowed me to shift some stuff around though. Thinking this new layout looks a little less congested. 










Any suggestions for the top area of the tree fern? It dries out significantly faster than the lower parts, so whatever I put up there would have to be really small, and not mind drying out.


----------



## flyingSquirrel

inka4040 said:


> Any suggestions for the top area of the tree fern? It dries out significantly faster than the lower parts, so whatever I put up there would have to be really small, and not mind drying out.


Schoenorchis fragrans
Dendrobium lichenastrum (the small form, NOT the D. prenticei)


----------



## Spaff

I agree with Matt! Or you could go for one of the mat forming Epidendrums, something like Epi. schlecterianum.


----------



## inka4040

Awesome suggestions all around. Wish I had space for all 3, but given the constraints, the Schoenorchis sounds like a shoo in, or a schoen even. Many thanks for the help, guys!


----------



## Spaff

If you like the flowers of Schoenorchis fragrans, check out S. scolopendria. It's a recently described species that has a growth habit that, to me, resembles a caterpillar. J&L had it listed recently.


----------



## inka4040

Wow. Awesome awesome growth pattern on that one. Looks like it'd probably like to roam a bit more than the space I really want to fill though. That fragrans is so incredbily tiny, but the scolopendria is such a cooler looking plant. Definitely putting it on the list for my next viv project!

Another question though. How important is having forced air movement in such a small enclosure? I could pull one of the fern panels out and hide a tiny little box fan, but with the terrarium already drying out despite being misted twice a day, I wonder if there isn't enough passive air flow through already. Don't remember seeing any fan setups in the other micro mini vivs kicking around the forum. Any thoughts?


----------



## flyingSquirrel

Spaff said:


> If you like the flowers of Schoenorchis fragrans, check out S. scolopendria. It's a recently described species that has a growth habit that, to me, resembles a caterpillar. J&L had it listed recently.


me want!!!


----------



## Spaff

S. scolopendria is similar in size to S. fragans. It's just more of a compact vine as opposed to the upright vandaceous habit of fragrans. If you mounted it sideways, I think it would take a while to outgrow that space. 

I use fans in all my orchid tanks because I've had rot issues in the past before using them. My tanks stay constantly humid, though. One of those tiny computer fans pointed down blowing across the background would probably be all you need.


----------



## inka4040

Duly noted. I guess the restrepias never really took off in my bigger viv until I cranked the fan all the way up for the summer. Guess the plan of action now is to cut a single piece of glass for a cover, instead of the 2 overlapping ones I have now, and get a little cpu fan in there. Thinking of cutting a hole in the tree fern panel to hide it in the lower back right corner. This way, it'd blow across the bottom back of the viv, and would circulate air from close to the drainage layer, hopefully ensuring higher humidity without directly blowing on any plants. Any thoughts? I'm reticent to position the fan as you suggested because of how noticeable it'd be in such a small setup.


----------



## christina hanson

Spaff said:


> I'll be interested to hear if your Masd. wendlandiana recovers. I got one when I first got into Pleurothallids and had a similar experience as you. Mine never came back and tanked pretty quickly. It's supposed to be one of the "warm" growing Masdies, but I think they are just pretty picky overall as a genus.


I've had this species in a large vivarium for a couple of years now, but I have never had it bloom. M. floribunda and M. herradurae both have bloomed in there though. Some others to try if you haven't are M. erinacea, M. livingstoneiana and M. nidifica. 

Christina


----------



## Spaff

I think you could put the fan wherever as long as you get some movement and the plants dry by night. I just suggested the top because there will be less obstacles for the air.



christina hanson said:


> I've had this species in a large vivarium for a couple of years now, but I have never had it bloom. M. floribunda and M. herradurae both have bloomed in there though. Some others to try if you haven't are M. erinacea, M. livingstoneiana and M. nidifica.
> 
> Christina


I've tried M. floribunda as well, and I tend to struggle with Masdies. I can grow other Pleuros easily, even Draculas, but most Masdevallias don't do well for me. I'm trying M. erinacea right now and so far so good.


----------



## flyingSquirrel

A few points

- You could easily fit the Schoenorchis fragrans AND the Dendrobium lichenastrum in there. They are smaller than you think

- You should absolutely get a fan. I would never build any tank without a fan, after the few various experiences I have had with no circulation vs. excellent circulation. The benefits are unquestionable 

- Fan placement/location, direction, etc are all critical, and may need to be tweaked for the best effect, again based on my experience. Additionally, I have found that whenever I thought a fan with a certain CFM rating would be sufficient, in order to get the results I wanted I had to upgrade to several times that CFM for the results I needed. In other words, buy a stronger fan that you think you need. I don't know how accurate or scientific this is, but it seems to me that fans of the same CFM can have a stronger or weaker "stream" of air, depending on the design. It sounds weird, but I think it's true. Even in the nano, I'd recommend at least 10 CFM, preferably more. Right now I have a non-landscaped, plain nano tank with potted ferns, and an 18 CFM fan. With 18 CFM, if I overwater, mold will still grow. Every once in a while I leave the nano door open about 1/2" for a few hours to really clear the air out and get things to dry a bit. Then I close it up and rewater. Every tank seems to be different as well depending on landscaping and plant placement, which can create variable and inconsistent pockets of stagnant air, hence the need for tweaking fan placement. I think I've gone on long enough on this


----------



## inka4040

Thanks for the input, flying Squirrel! I ordered a fan that pushes about 11cfm, and hid it in a cutout made in the side piece of tree fern. The first one they sent was a dud, but another one is on its way to me. So far plants have been doing well without a fan so hopefully the addition of some air movement will only improve their growth. The pleuros specifically, have all been putting out a ton of new leads, and the pleuro alata is really ramping up blooming. The slowest growers so far are the lepanthes telipogoniflora and the bulbo odontopetalum, but both have also started pushing new growth. I added a Schoenorchis fragrans, and recieved some more Davallia repens and Lemmaphyllum microphyllum today. Both arrived in absolutely pristine condition.

Here's a shot of the terrarium as of this evening, with the new plants placed. 










And here's the lemmaphyllum before I butchered it. Definitely shed a tear ripping apart this gorgeous thing.


----------



## goof901

it looks great!!! what's the ferny looking thing (i'm sorry about the description) in the bottom left?


----------



## hydrophyte

That's looking great man.


----------



## inka4040

Thanks, guys!!

Goof, the plant in the bottom left is Davallia repens.


----------



## naadbrahma

What kind of lights are lighting that tank? In regards to fans does anyone know if it best to suck air out or is it better to have the fan blowing it. I am setting up my first tanks that are 18x18x24 and have one hole in the back center that is for a 2" fan. My thinking was that by sucking air out from the back it will pull air in through the front. For bulbs I have 4 13 watt jungle dawns on each tank. Waiting for a pile of orchids I just ordered and then I'll be ready to plant.


----------



## flyingSquirrel

naadbrahma said:


> What kind of lights are lighting that tank? In regards to fans does anyone know if it best to suck air out or is it better to have the fan blowing it. I am setting up my first tanks that are 18x18x24 and have one hole in the back center that is for a 2" fan. My thinking was that by sucking air out from the back it will pull air in through the front. For bulbs I have 4 13 watt jungle dawns on each tank. Waiting for a pile of orchids I just ordered and then I'll be ready to plant.


In general you want internal air circulation, which means you move the air around inside, but do not move outside air in or inside air out. The reason is you want to keep the humidity and temps consistent within the tank. 4x 13W jungle dawns sounds, to me, like way too much. Those things are super bright. I'd go with 2, or maybe 3, depending on what plant species.


----------



## drutt

looking good..


----------



## Brotherly Monkey

Spaff said:


> I'll be interested to hear if your Masd. wendlandiana recovers. I got one when I first got into Pleurothallids and had a similar experience as you. Mine never came back and tanked pretty quickly. It's supposed to be one of the "warm" growing Masdies, but I think they are just pretty picky overall as a genus.


what kind of conditions are you keeping it in? I never had much issue with it and grew it under light and in a viv setting

beautiful blooms, as well


----------



## Brotherly Monkey

christina hanson said:


> I've had this species in a large vivarium for a couple of years now, but I have never had it bloom. M. floribunda and M. herradurae both have bloomed in there though. Some others to try if you haven't are M. erinacea, M. livingstoneiana and M. nidifica.
> 
> Christina


if I remember correctly, mine used to bloom during seasonal changes, in both lights and temp. But over all, it was a very fussy bloomer and never figured out what exactly triggered it

PS I might have the bakers culture sheet on it, somewhere (if not, I still think I have a few sheets on my account). I'll look it over and see if it offers any suggestions


----------



## Spaff

I was growing it just like my other Pleuros... mounted, watered daily, high humidity with the help of a humidifier, temps ~68-80 under T8s in a dedicated plant tank with a computer fan for air movement. Mine's been long dead now, though.


----------



## Brotherly Monkey

Spaff said:


> I was growing it just like my other Pleuros... mounted, watered daily, high humidity with the help of a humidifier, temps ~68-80 under T8s in a dedicated plant tank with a computer fan for air movement. Mine's been long dead now, though.


How close did you have it to the lights? Mine was originally under the same lighting intensity as my other masdies, but I was constantly dealing with falling leaves. When I moved it under the canopy of some larger plants it started doing really well.

PS I know it's listed as a warm grower, but I kept it at the same temps as my other pleuros


----------



## Spaff

It was halfway down a 20H vert, so 12" away probably. I was growing other "warm" Pleuros with it, and they did (and still are) doing fine. It may have been that my plant was more adapted to cooler conditions and lost too many leaves to recover.


----------



## inka4040

Quick update. Things have been growing in nicely. I'm especially happy with how well the riccardia seems to be doing. The moss that came with the lemmaphyllum from rareferns doesn't seem to like drying out, so the stuff on the bg is looking rough, but all of it growing on the substrate is really taking off. Need to get a macro cam to get some shots of it, as the texture is really pleasing.


----------



## flyingSquirrel

Looks amazing, I love it!! The way that wood comes out and goes down into the bottom looks so awesome, and the moss all over is great. Really nice job on this! I must have some of that fern in the bottom left corner


----------



## KarmaPolice

Beautiful tank. Everything looks awesome. Like squirrel said, the wood has a great curve to it. It looks great now, and once it fills out it will look even better. Good job on this build.


----------



## EPP Aqua Store

Very beautiful setup! I see at least 4-5 different species of Orchids... would be nice to have a pair of RETF in there...


----------



## inka4040

Many thanks, guys! So far the bulbo odontopelatum/petalum? and the schoenorchis have been the slowest growers. Otherwise, even the telipogoniflora has begun to put out new growth somewhat consistently. Can't wait to see some flowers on that guy, for sure. 

Aqua store, this tank is actually ridiculously tiny. The footprint is only 8" square, and the whole thing, including drainage layer is 12" high. Not sure a RETF would even be able to stretch its legs in this tank. Thanks for your kind words!


----------



## hypostatic

Oh wow I just quickly browsed the thread backwards just looking at the pictures. When I got to the first picture and saw the macodes I was like  because I realized just how small the orchids are. The terrarium is really well done, and when I looked at the last image I thought it was a regular sized viv!


----------



## EPP Aqua Store

inka4040 said:


> Many thanks, guys! So far the bulbo odontopelatum/petalum? and the schoenorchis have been the slowest growers. Otherwise, even the telipogoniflora has begun to put out new growth somewhat consistently. Can't wait to see some flowers on that guy, for sure.
> 
> Aqua store, this tank is actually ridiculously tiny. The footprint is only 8" square, and the whole thing, including drainage layer is 12" high. Not sure a RETF would even be able to stretch its legs in this tank. Thanks for your kind words!


Gosh, that's really tiny! Perhaps some small mantellas would be perfect... it's a pity not to have any animals in it... nevertheless, it's really a job well done! 

You can call me EPP


----------



## froggies3

I know this was already asked, but it was never answered. What type of lighting are you using? BTW The viv looks great


----------



## inka4040

EPP Aqua Store said:


> Gosh, that's really tiny! Perhaps some small mantellas would be perfect... it's a pity not to have any animals in it... nevertheless, it's really a job well done!
> 
> You can call me EPP


Thanks, EPP! Honestly, I'd feel bad shoehorning any sort of creature in there, plus I don't want anybody trampling on all those tiny plants. Maybe some sort of small mantid some day, but for now, I'm happy with it how it is. 



froggies3 said:


> I know this was already asked, but it was never answered. What type of lighting are you using? BTW The viv looks great


Sorry about that, it's just a regular 13w spiral CFL bulb, 5000K.


----------



## hydrophyte

Hey that's looking great! What an excellent collection of little plants.



inka4040 said:


>


----------



## inka4040

Thanks, man! I appreciate you coming back to check the updates!


----------



## inka4040

So it's been about 2 months, and I figured it'd be good to post a pic to get some perspective on this viv's progress. Not a huge amount of growth out of the orchs for the most part, but a few new spikes, which is always nice. Overall, the moss has been growing pretty well though. I'm really pleased with how this setup has been turning out. 

Fts:










Pleuro allenii and grobyi. 









Star moss from a Rareferns lemmaphyllum. The sinningias have been looking raggedy, probably because the water table in the drainage layer got kind of high. They've resumed blooming since I emptied it, so hopefully they'll start doing better again. 









Ascocentrum pumilum throwing a spike. 









Noid Pleuro also spiking. These seem to take absolutely forever to develop. 









My favorite angle. 









Any idea about the yellowing foliage? Only running a 13w cfl over this tank, so not sure if it's light related. Fert consists of being misted with aquarium water. Any ideas and feedback would be really appreciated.


----------



## mitcholito

Really nice collection of orchids. 

The Pleurothallis allenii is something else. Its a Muscarella (formerly Pleurothallis) species. Could be something close to M. aristata. But I would need more detailed photos of the flower to determine.

Yellowing of leafs is primarily a sign of magnesium deficiency. A plant growing in dark condition grows darker green leafs and vice versa.


----------



## Plantnerd

I would say that yellowing of leafs is usually a sign of plant roots being to wet and subsequently rot. 

Atleast that's what i experience as a gartner 9 times out of 10. 

What kind of orchid is it? I can't see it on the picture.


----------



## Juand15

Wow those orchids are pretty cool! I really like those Pleuro allenii and grobyi! Any clue where I could get some of those?


Juan


----------



## KarmaPolice

Very happy for the update on this. Love the tank and how it looks like a nice large 15 gallon vert. Everything seems to be surviving nicely, I hope your light is sufficient enough for this tank and its inhabitants. Keep the updates coming in the future. Thanks for the photo


----------



## inka4040

Plantnerd said:


> I would say that yellowing of leafs is usually a sign of plant roots being to wet and subsequently rot.
> 
> Atleast that's what i experience as a gartner 9 times out of 10.
> 
> What kind of orchid is it? I can't see it on the picture.


Although this likely explains the yellowing on the sinningias, I don't think this setup is wet enough for that to be the issue with the mounted plants. Thanks for the info, though!



Juand15 said:


> Wow those orchids are pretty cool! I really like those Pleuro allenii and grobyi! Any clue where I could get some of those?
> 
> 
> Juan


I'm sure J&L or Andy's would have them. The photo labeled with the grobyi and allenii is actually showing my pleuro alata. The allenii is actually the lone reddish leaf behind the grobyi. 



KarmaPolice said:


> Very happy for the update on this. Love the tank and how it looks like a nice large 15 gallon vert. Everything seems to be surviving nicely, I hope your light is sufficient enough for this tank and its inhabitants. Keep the updates coming in the future. Thanks for the photo


Thanks, man! I wonder if it's enough light because some plants like the lepanthes are reaching, but at the same time, the leaves that look like they're bleaching make me reluctant to use a bigger bulb. Maybe we'll see how things go if more rigorous fertilizing fixes that issue.


----------



## KarmaPolice

Been about 6 months, any chance of a picture update on this great tank?


----------



## inka4040

Figure I'd post a last update here, since this tank will soon be broken down and shifted into a larger enclosure. 


Sorry for the wait, KarmaPolice. I've been away from this forum for a while.


----------



## KarmaPolice

Thanks for the picture. Updates are always nice, but I understand when you are busy or just don't get on the site very much. If you end up doing a thread on the larger tank you are moving these to, make sure to leave a link 

good luck.


----------



## fullmonti

I'm kinda new here & have built a large paludarium with orchids. Sorry if you answered this before but do you run the fan 24/7?? I'm tweaking my fan humidity combo ATT

Thanks & I really like your tank!


----------



## frogparty

That not Pleurothallis allenii, its Pleurothallis alata


----------



## inka4040

Alleni is on the right side of the tank, midway up the wall. Started as a single leaf with roots, and has finally started pushing major new growth. You can kind of see it poking out behind the p. grobyi. 

Thanks, fullmonti. The fan is on the same timer as the lights, so it's on for 12hr or so a day.

Thanks, KP. I have a build thread in the parts and construction forum. Will deff remember to follow up with a link in this thread though.


----------

