# I think my new frog may be sick



## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Today I got my first dart frogs, 3 aurautus. Two of them seem to be in good health but one seems skinny. Maybe he's just younger and I'm worrying to much but I'd like your opinion on it.


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Here's the one I think may be skinny


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Sorry for so many messages, but here's my whole setup if it helps.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I am far from being any sort of "expert" but that frog does look skinny...you may want to provide more information...and I hope this thread gets looked at by more knowledgeable people...


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Like what kind of information should I post?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

how long you have had it...who you got it from (if a reputable breeder, they would want to address the problem)...read some posts on the Forum about health issues to get a feeling of what questions you need to get answered...you probably have to take that one frog to the vet, isolate it from the others...things of that sort...good luck...


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## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

What kind of food are you feeding them?
What kind of supplements are you giving them and how often are you giving them?
Have the tank and plants been cleaned/treated? For example have the plants been bleach dipped?
What kind of lighting is being used?
Where did you purchase the frogs from and what kind of care were they in before?
Do you know the lineage of the frogs?
What are the parameters of the tank in terms of humidity and heat?

These are just some basic questions, and I'm sure I haven't asked enough, I'm just trying to get this started.

Also for the tank I would consider maybe getting some more hardscaping or wood pieces to maximize floor space of the viv, maybe some ghostwood, manzanita, malaysian driftwood, or cork. Oh and you are going to need a gallon bag of leaf litter, preferably sterilized and pesticide free. It used to be that moss floors were preferred, but the hobby has drifted more towards leaf litter due to the added hiding places in the leaves and the fact that wild habitats tend to have leaf litter rather than moss on top of the substrate.


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

I feed fruit flies and dust them with calcium. I got the frogs from pinellas county reptiles and they were under pretty good care. The tank is around 73 degrees Fahrenheit and humidity is at 80. I washed off the plants thoroughly before I put them in the tank. I bought the frog like this, it is the first day I had him. Maybe he's just a runt and needs some extra attention? I am getting leaf litter tomorrow, the moss is just for the waters edge. He is sitting under a leaf right now and the other frogs are together under a piece of wood. I hope he is ok. I just got him today!


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## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

What brand of calcium supplement are you using?
If you are only using calcium, you are going to need to supplement them vitamin D as well - I use Repashy - about once or twice a month.

If the frog is skinny, then that's most likely a result of insufficient feeding by the vendor/breeder, and provided you feed regularly and with supplements, the frog should recover. 

Since the frogs have just been placed in a new enclosure, they are going to be skiddish and more susceptible to stress, so keeping out of the tank besides during feedings is best.


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok but why would my other 2 from the same breeder be healthy?


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

By the way thankyou guys so much for your help


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

The calcium I feed is repashy calcium plus and does have vitamin d in it


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Also just wondering how often would you feed the frogs


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## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

You can feed daily or every other day, depending on how many flies you feed them. 

As to the skinny frog, sometimes when placed together in an enclosure, two females will compete, with one female becoming dominant and bullying the other female, preventing her from eating and causing her to become stressed. 

The only way to begin to really "know" what the issue is, the frogs will have to first be fecal tested, which can be done either through online shipment methods or an exotic animal veterinarian. This can determine whether the frogs are positive for dangerous parasites or other issues. Also, I assume that the frogs have not been quarantined. If this is true, refer to this thread:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/141506-quarantine-suggestions-discussion.html


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

How many flies do you feed per frog? And do you think I could maybe just pull him out once a day for feeding so he gets enough food and it might solve the problem?


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

And is it at all possible that he is just a small frog?


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

And would it be a problem touching the frog everyday to move it for feeding?


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

If it is the groups first day and you bought them all from the same breeder and they were living together prior ( which is what I think you are saying).. I would not pull the smaller one out.. Auratus are going to be shy, don't disturb them other then feeding and misting. Give the group some time to adjust to their new home!

I would feed them every day for now. You can put a piece of banana or orange towards the front of the tank. If you see a lot of fruit flies on the fruit, skip feeding until you see just a few. Rather then dump the flies in the tank you can blow them around the tank.. giving opportunity for the less aggressive feeders to get freshly dusted flies.


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

So he might just be skinny because he's not as aggressive and wasn't getting enough food before?


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Add some springtails and Isopoda as alternative food source.


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

I am adding micro fauna in a couple of days, it's getting shipped right now. Can I just ask you guys, do you think he will be ok if I just feed him properly?


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm curious why you would purchase a skinny frog like that?
Did they only have three? 
I would return it. You don't want to start this hobby with a stressed or possibly sick frog.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

I am realizing you are in Florida, do you know if the frogs are captive bred or wild caught?


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

srrrio said:


> I am realizing you are in Florida, do you know if the frogs are captive bred or wild caught?


I've never seen them with wild caught darts. I don't think they would divulge the name of breeder. Couldn't hurt to ask.
They sell several different brands of supplements. Might be worthwhile to ask which they actually use for darts.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

You should supplement at every feeding by dusting the ffs...I believe that jarteta97 might have written about the Calcium plus but meant to write Vitamin A two times a month...please go to the forums about feeding and supplementing.


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

I think he might just be underfed since he still does everything the other frogs do. I'm not going to return him because I am invested in any animal I buy. I think I'll just make sure I'm taking care of him properly and hopefully he will be back up to speed. What do you guys think?


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Also I want to know if my big looks good and how to make sure all the frogs get food, because one frog keeps taking most of the food.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Ccrestedgecko said:


> Also I want to know if my big looks good and how to make sure all the frogs get food, because one frog keeps taking most of the food.


Someone already mentioned, adding a couple small slices of banana as feeding stations in a couple different areas, and disperse the flies throughout the tank instead of just one spot. 
I think you be better off placing the skinnier frog in a separate temporary enclosure. This will make it easier to collect a fecal, and you can better monitor the health of the frog, how well it is feeding, etc. You may want to feed some fattier foods to just this one frog, termites or fruit fly larvae.
No sense in making the other two obese while trying to bulk this one back up.


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

I would reiterate the dispersing of flies all over the tank. From day one with my auratus, I have sprinkled flies from one side of the tank to the other. Over time, the frogs are conditioned to this style and they each have a spot where they wait for flies. I have never seen competition among them for food and they all seem content eating the flies in their general area. Once you see where the little guy waits, you can start putting a few more flies in his/her general area.
The banana thing works pretty good to see how many flies are left over after feeding. You can learn to adjust up or down as needed for your group of frogs.


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## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

Judy S said:


> You should supplement at every feeding by dusting the ffs...I believe that jarteta97 might have written about the Calcium plus but meant to write Vitamin A two times a month...please go to the forums about feeding and supplementing.


Correct, sorry I was tired, but Judy is right that you ought to go with calcium plus for every feeding and vitamin A once or twice a month. Thanks for that Judy


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Ok so do you guys think he will be ok?
I also have a question about fruit flies is it expensive to feed dart frogs, because one fruit fly culture is 10 dollars or do they keep breeding so you only have to buy one culture forever?


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Is it ok that the other 2 frogs sleep by each other and he hides in a different place alone to sleep also? Does that mean he is bullied or is that ok?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Ccrestedgecko said:


> Ok so do you guys think he will be ok?
> I also have a question about fruit flies is it expensive to feed dart frogs, because one fruit fly culture is 10 dollars or do they keep breeding so you only have to buy one culture forever?


They do not produce for ever. Generally most hobbyists make up new cultures every week or so which after you get the ingredients reduces the cost of the cultures to well under a dollar. If your willing to clean out the culture cups they can be reused multiple times before having to go into the recycling bin. If you don't want to clean culture containers you can try this method http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/119562-jps-ff-culture-idea.html. 

You can purchase premixed media that only requires the addition of water (some require hot water or microwaving) but again it still reduces the cost. 

Normally a culture is most productive after 10-14 days and begins to really lose productivity after 20-24 days and should be moved or discarded at around 30 days. If you search media you will encounter a lot of threads and discussions on this subject. I would suggest reading the most recent first as there have been some significant advances in the last 5 years with the respect to quality medias. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Reef_Haven said:


> Someone already mentioned, adding a couple small slices of banana as feeding stations in a couple different areas, and disperse the flies throughout the tank instead of just one spot.
> I think you be better off placing the skinnier frog in a separate temporary enclosure. This will make it easier to collect a fecal, and you can better monitor the health of the frog, how well it is feeding, etc. You may want to feed some fattier foods to just this one frog, termites or fruit fly larvae.
> No sense in making the other two obese while trying to bulk this one back up.


The only downside to this for the beginner is reintroducing the frog into what are established territories. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

But guys does it mean he is bullied if the other 2 sleep together and he doesn't?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Ccrestedgecko said:


> But guys does it mean he is bullied if the other 2 sleep together and he doesn't?


Probably not. 


Some comments 

Ed


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

It's very hard to tell from the photo, but it doesn't look skinny to me. They might not all be the same age; they could be from different clutches. One could be a few weeks younger than the others. I wouldn't be particularly worried I guess is what I'm saying. The advice already given is pretty good. Feed every day, dust with supplements every day, and scatter the flies out over the enclosure (place some fruit in a couple different locations to act as feeding stations), and finally keep an eye on your smaller one. Make sure it doesn't lose weight.


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## Ccrestedgecko (Jan 6, 2016)

Thankyou guys so much for all your advice. Your a wonderful community and I look forward to being part of it. He is doing ok so far , so I think I'll keep doing what I'm doing and I think he will be fine. I'll keep you guys updated.


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