# A guide to making FF cultures



## packer43064

This is a guide on how I culture FF's. It can be done in MANY ways. This is just one way that works for me. Experimenting is key in making cultures. Hopefully this will be a start for new frog owners who will be culturing FF's.

First off reach into your box of 240 cups/lids (32 oz.) and get some for making the cultures. What, you don't have 240 of them just lying around. 









Get out your media. I use this simple recipe. 
6 parts instant potato flakes
1 part powdered brewers yeast
1 part powdered sugar

It's very simple but works, for beginners simple is key. This can be made when you make cultures or made beforehand and put into ziploc bags like I have done. Even put in the freezer if wanted.









Use a half of cup of media per container. This will double when you add the liquid.


















You will want to add the liquid now to the container of media. I use 1/2 cup of warm water and 1/4 cup of vinegar. Use warm or boiling water, it will make everything mix much better. The vinegar is a mold inhibitor. Methyl Paraben can also be used to prevent mold. It's available at many sponsor websites. It's a powder. I have ordered some, but if you don't want to buy it vinegar is another solution to mold.

The warm water and vinegar.









Normal cheap vinegar is all you need.









Just poured in liquids.









After your stir it a bit it will look like this.









Your fancy stirrin' tool. 









This what you want the media to look like after stirring for awhile. Takes less than 3 minutes to stir them. I also push the media down a bit to make it more level. Also if you look at the pic earlier with the dry media, it has doubled since then.









After this I microwave them. This is mainly because there are things called mites, they can and will destroy your FF cultures and turn them into duds. I don't microwave for more than a minute tops. Your just trying to kill any mites that MAY be in your media ingredients to start with. Your not cooking here, just nuking them for a bit. Let them cool for a bit after this.

The flies will need something to crawl on (you will have hundreds when it starts booming) so they don't just walk all over each other. There are many options for this. Excelsior is what I use. Coffee filters would be the second most used, but there are other options out there. I wouldn't mind using coffee filters or at least trying them out, just hasn't happened yet. If you do use filters, use more than a couple. Think over 5 at least folded up. For excelsior though take some out and make it into a loose ball. It doesn't need to be big, at all. Too much and your just wasting it. Just push it down a bit into the container with the media. Not alot, just so it won't move when feeding out the flies to your frogs.

























Next add dry active baker's yeast to the culture. The flies will eat this and it's just good for the culture. NOT ALOT, just a small small pinch. Were talking 20 grain tops. 









Next after this is adding the flies from an already booming culture. I didn't take pics. It's pretty simple after you make a few. Tap the established culture on the ground so the flies fall and take off the lid. The flies will climb to the top. Simply tip the established culture over the new culture and when they start to crawl out tap them into your new culture. Keep tapping them on the ground so none climb out if needed then close the lids on both when your done. 50 flies is a good number to start a new culture with. I just guess really, you will get used to it. I use two booming cultures to make 1 new culture. Preferable from different weeks in progress cultures. Say a 2 and 4 week culture for example.

After this it is good to put the date/what type of FF are in each culture.









After a couple of days you will start to notice that the top layer of media is a different color. If you look closer you will see the larva wiggling around









I made this on 12/26 so a week and a half later you will notice that the larva will turn to pupa on the sides of the container.









A week later and your culture is ready to feed out!!!!!!!!

Just some tips on mites. Their life cycle of a mite is around a month so it is good to throw cultures away after 4-5 weeks so you don't have a huge explosion of them. Mite are everywhere, you will get mites sooner or later. It happens, frogs will eat them actually but if you notice one with mites isolate them into a different place than where you normally keep your cultures at. Some things to stop them getting into all of your cultures is mite paper which can be bought at alot of places online. 
This is mite paper underneath the cultures.









Also mite spray (bird version) can be sprayed on paper towels. You then put your cultures on the paper towel to hinder the mites.









Well I think that's it. I didn't cover everything, but it should be a good start for a beginner making FF cultures. These cultures were wingless melanogaster.


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## bricespice

Where do you buy the yeast to make the media mix?


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## Woodsman

Very good tutorial! The only additions I would have is that, after I wet the media and add excelsior, I microwave the cultures for 3 1/5 mintues. This will cut down on any spore and mites/mite eggs that are around. When they are cool, I add the yeast and then flies.

I also use the tedion solution to control mites. This comes as a solution that you apply to paper towels, allow to dry, cut into strips, and then add to the cultures when you're making them up. I think they really help keep the blooms of mites that can occur and kill off the fruitflies before all the media is used.

Over all, Good job! Take care, Richard.


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## packer43064

bricespice said:


> Where do you buy the yeast to make the media mix?


Brewers yeast can be bought at GNC's for $11.99 Their is about 3 cups in the container (1 pound). Other health stores should carry it too. This will suffice if you don't make alot of cultures or until you can buy in bulk.

This website is where it can be bought in bulk. Bulkfoods.com Brewers Yeast 50 pounds Fast Online ordering with $5 Shipping on $75+ order.

Shipping is less than 15 bucks for normal shipping too depending where you live. 5 pounds for 20 bucks is cheap.


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## dflorian

I recently bought brewer's yeast from bulkfoods.com to realize a nice savings over GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. 

Nice thread.


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## packer43064

Woodsman said:


> Very good tutorial! The only additions I would have is that, after I wet the media and add excelsior, I microwave the cultures for 3 1/5 mintues. This will cut down on any spore and mites/mite eggs that are around. When they are cool, I add the yeast and then flies.
> 
> I also use the tedion solution to control mites. This comes as a solution that you apply to paper towels, allow to dry, cut into strips, and then add to the cultures when you're making them up. I think they really help keep the blooms of mites that can occur and kill off the fruitflies before all the media is used.
> 
> Over all, Good job! Take care, Richard.


The microwaving part is in there. Just not as long. I don't know if 4 minutes or 1 minute makes a difference so I usually do less thinking that too much will mess with the media somehow. I don't know if this has any merit though at all. 

I thought about mentioning tedion solution, but don't you have to add something to it or something? I need to get some and experiment with it.

Thanks alot though! Figured this would help some new people making their cultures. Easy and simple for them until they get the hang of it and want to experiment a little.


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## packer43064

dflorian said:


> I recently bought brewer's yeast from bulkfoods.com to realize a nice savings over GNC or Vitamin Shoppe.
> 
> Nice thread.



Thanks, how much was your shipping?


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## dflorian

I picked up 20 lbs for $78.56 and shipping was $5.00.



packer43064 said:


> Thanks, how much was your shipping?


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## Philsuma

for newbies and experts alike....when talking media...SIMPLE and QUICK is key.

Soon, you will even be able to add all the different ingrediants by "eyeballing" it up - no more measuring cup.

I boil my water that I add....other than that.....your method is how I do.

Nice pictures....great tutorial.


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## Pumilo

packer43064 said:


> Brewers yeast can be bought at GNC's for $11.99 Their is about 3 cups in the container (1 pound). Other health stores should carry it too. This will suffice if you don't make alot of cultures or until you can buy in bulk.
> 
> This website is where it can be bought in bulk. Bulkfoods.com Brewers Yeast 50 pounds Fast Online ordering with $5 Shipping on $75+ order.
> 
> Shipping is less than 15 bucks for normal shipping too depending where you live. 5 pounds for 20 bucks is cheap.





dflorian said:


> I picked up 20 lbs for $78.56 and shipping was $5.00.


Nice tutorial but I have a better source of yeast for you. Supporting our vendors is always good. Besides, it's way cheaper than either of your sources. Josh's Frogs sell 5 lbs of brewers yeast for $11.99 or 50 lbs for $74.99.

Live Active Bakers Yeast (to throw the tiny pinch in before spiking with flies) is really cheap at Costco. 2 lb bag is like $4.

Using a week 2 and a week 4 culture for your flies is generally for D. Heidi flies as the males and females mature at different times. I have always made my Melanogaster cultures from whatever culture has the freshest flies in it (2 week culture).
Doug


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## packer43064

Philsuma said:


> for newbies and experts alike....when talking media...SIMPLE and QUICK is key.
> 
> Soon, you will even be able to add all the different ingrediants by "eyeballing" it up - no more measuring cup.
> 
> I boil my water that I add....other than that.....your method is how I do.
> 
> Nice pictures....great tutorial.






Pumilo said:


> Nice tutorial but I have a better source of yeast for you. Supporting our vendors is always good. Besides, it's way cheaper than either of your sources. Josh's Frogs sell 5 lbs of brewers yeast for $11.99 or 50 lbs for $74.99.
> 
> Live Active Bakers Yeast (to throw the tiny pinch in before spiking with flies) is really cheap at Costco. 2 lb bag is like $4.
> 
> Using a week 2 and a week 4 culture for your flies is generally for D. Heidi flies as the males and females mature at different times. I have always made my Melanogaster cultures from whatever culture has the freshest flies in it (2 week culture).
> Doug


Damn, that is considerably cheaper for the brewer's yeast. Thanks, I must have missed that on his site.

I've heard that it is good to use older flies than just new ones. Ed has posted about it. Since my cultures have the dates that they started it easy enough to just grab an old culture along with some new booming cultures to make the new cultures. Don't know how much it matters, I don't think alot of people do it the way I'm speaking of anyway.


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## Hibiscusmile

I have been using brewers yeast in mine and they seem to be fine, have any of you tried it? It is much cheaper.


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## packer43064

Hibiscusmile said:


> I have been using brewers yeast in mine and they seem to be fine, have any of you tried it? It is much cheaper.


I don't know anyone who doesn't use brewers yeast to tell you the truth.


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## Philsuma

packer43064 said:


> I don't know anyone who doesn't use brewers yeast to tell you the truth.


Yep.....It's pretty nessa....it provides the protein. The FF yields will be MUCH higher when using this:










Fine brown "fluffy" powder











Not to be confused with BAKER'S YEAST....which only gets a pinch sprinkled on top of the cultures:










And is made up of little balls or "grains" instead of the "fluffy" brown powder










Almost 99% of all new hobbyists get those two yeasts confused.


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## packer43064

^^^
AGREED. Made my first culture without it (brewers), it was useless.


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## lyndonvang

Packer thanks for the how to. Made my first 2 FF cultures ever and they're thriving. I went with the coffee filters.


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## packer43064

Nice!!! Looks good for your first two. Their not that hard to make actually. Nice amount of cases on those FF cups.


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## Dendroguy

K.I.S.S-keep it stupid simple


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## TheUnseenHand

Can anyone enlighten me as to why Brewers Yeast is used over bakers yeast from the start? I honestly haven't looked at prices or anything, but is the Brewers Yeast cheaper? Or is it because it's powdered it allows for more even and thorough distribution in the mix? Or is it actually a different species of yeast that has a benefit that the bakers yeast doesn't?


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## Brotherly Monkey

I was speaking with some guys at the local feed mill (only place to pick up peat, perlite, etc, in my area) and they hoooked me up with a small bag of game bird mash (I think a 50lb bag regularly retails for around 20-30 dollars) to try in my cultures. 

Has anyone tried anything like this in the past? I figured I would try to cut my current media by a third, and see what happens. It's non medicated and 22% protein


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## Pumilo

Brotherly Monkey said:


> I was speaking with some guys at the local feed mill (only place to pick up peat, perlite, etc, in my area) and they hoooked me up with a small bag of game bird mash (I think a 50lb bag regularly retails for around 20-30 dollars) to try in my cultures.
> 
> Has anyone tried anything like this in the past? I figured I would try to cut my current media by a third, and see what happens. It's non medicated and 22% protein


Kind of like this? http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/58634-ff-media-recipes-list-3.html


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## Brotherly Monkey




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## RMB

TheUnseenHand said:


> Can anyone enlighten me as to why Brewers Yeast is used over bakers yeast from the start? I honestly haven't looked at prices or anything, but is the Brewers Yeast cheaper? Or is it because it's powdered it allows for more even and thorough distribution in the mix? Or is it actually a different species of yeast that has a benefit that the bakers yeast doesn't?


If nobody's answered this yet,

Brewers yeast is the left over yeast that accumulates after fermentation is complete. Yeast cells multiply rapidly. Only a small package of yeast is needed to start a batch of beer, but it colonizes quickly, usually leaving a sludge of yummy yeast down in the bottom of your fermenter. At that time it is alive, but there's nothing left for it to consume. The beer is siphoned off the top, leaving the sludge behind. 

It is a different strain of yeast, although using bakers yeast will work for beer, or beer yeast for wine, or brewers yeast for bread, it won't taste right or won't be able to live in the alchohol it produces, resulting in an incomplete fermentation. The brewers yeast that you buy as a food supplement though is dead dried yeast cells, and can't be used for baking or brewing, it's just the dried and milled up leftovers from some breweries vats, which doesn't explain why it's so expensive. It is however a good source of proteins and all kinds of nutrients, for you and your flies. Homebrewed beer is also a lot better for you because of the amount of yeast left in the bottle, the B vitamins actually help prevent hangovers. So even if I pour it into a glass so it looks pretty, I always drink the sediment on the bottom!


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## tim13

I heard a rumor that Easter grass works well for FF cultures. Since its on sale for a quarter a bag, thought I might try it out. Anyone else tried it?


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## Ed

TheUnseenHand said:


> Can anyone enlighten me as to why Brewers Yeast is used over bakers yeast from the start? I honestly haven't looked at prices or anything, but is the Brewers Yeast cheaper? Or is it because it's powdered it allows for more even and thorough distribution in the mix? Or is it actually a different species of yeast that has a benefit that the bakers yeast doesn't?


 
As you culture flies you will develop strains of yeast that are adapted to your media and culture methods. Those yeast are transferred by the flies and will outcompete the bakers yeast. The addition of the baker's yeast is for two reasons, the first is that it gets egg laying to occur more rapidly and the second is that it helps prevent unwanted microbes or fungi from colonizing the media. 

The reason the brewer's or nutritional yeast is used is because it increases the protein content of the media and gives a controlled level of protein in the media. Adding live yeast doesn't give you the same control and if you add too much protein the production will go down. 

Ed


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## Reef_Haven

Ed said:


> The reason the brewer's or nutritional yeast is used is because it increases the protein content of the media and gives a controlled level of protein in the media. Adding live yeast doesn't give you the same control and if you add too much protein the production will go down.
> 
> Ed


Ed,
What is an ideal % level of protein in the dry portion of media? and how much would be too much?
I've been using the Walmart Great Value brand of mashed potato mix. The box indicates 1 portion is 22g dry and of that 2g is protein, that works out to 9% protein.
To this I add 1/6 brewers yeast (~50% protein) and 1/6 powdered sugar.
If I am doing the math correctly, that works out to 13% protein.
Some of the analysis on fruit fly medias I have seen are only 5% protein or so.
There seems to be some disconnect there, what am I missing?
Thanks.


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## Ed

Anything over 5% isn't needed as it doesn't do anything for production.. 

Are you sure your brewer's yeast is 50% protien by weight? Most references have it listed as much less than that.. usually closer to 30%...? You also need to make sure that all of your protein content is based on the weight and not say by calories or RDA... 


Ed


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## Reef_Haven

Ed said:


> Anything over 5% isn't needed as it doesn't do anything for production..
> 
> Are you sure your brewer's yeast is 50% protien by weight? Most references have it listed as much less than that.. usually closer to 30%...? You also need to make sure that all of your protein content is based on the weight and not say by calories or RDA...
> 
> 
> Ed


Brewer's Yeast is 15g per serving protein is 7g so 46.6%, close to 50%.
http://www.puritan.com/brewers-568/brewers-yeast-powder-002270?NewPage=1
It's the potato flakes that have me stumped. 9% protein seems high for dried potatoes. Still if I don't add brewers yeast, the yield is very low.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Mashed-Potatoes-32-oz/10402986#Nutrition+Facts
Thanks for helping me figure this out.


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## Ed

What is the total final dry weight of your media?


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## Ed

so you use 22 grams potato plus (0.17)(22) grams yeast plus (0.17)(22) grams sugar per culture? 

this gives 22 plus (22)(0.17) plus (22)(0.17) = 22 plus 7.3 grams = 29.3 grams total. 

The general amount of protien I get in the real literature (non-advertised) is between 32 and 46% so if we use 40% as the halfway point we get 

total protien (Accepting your potato levels) is 2 plus (.4)(3.7)= 2 plus 1.5 = 3.5 grams protein. If your labels are correct then that is close to 11% total protien. 

I think the potato label is right but are you sure you are using that weight of yeast and sugar to that weight of potato?


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## Reef_Haven

90g potato flakes
15g powder sugar
15g brewers yeast
120g total

Makes about 3 cultures


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## Ed

This a little different, the ratios are actually 1/8 not 1/6 (15/120). 

That just drops the total protien a little but still close to 11%. Have you considered dropping the amount of yeast? If your cultures crash and you restart with a ammonia sensitive strain you could have problems.


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## Reef_Haven

Yes,
I said I add 1/6 of each to the potato flakes.
I'll cut the brewers yeast and sugar by half and give a try. I have noticed if I use more than about 80 flies to make a culture. The mags will try to evacuate the culture early as the ammonia level rises.
But I can't possibly get to 5% protein when the flakes start out at 9%, unless I add some other filler as well.


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## Ed

If you decrease just the yeast while leaving the sugar alone then you would lower the total protien levels.

If you are seeing sensitivity to your culture methods, you can get around this by using second emergence flies as part of your starter population. It doesn't have to be all of the starter emergence but if you keep those genes in circulation you will still see the large emergences but also a more continous production as well. The large emergences are going to be more tied to when the maximal number of eggs were deposited. 

Ed


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## chadfarmer

i used this recipe and am getting a sweet smell from it-- about 3 days in it and its noticeable


did it with methyl paraben and getting the same thing am i doing something wrong


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