# One small skinny frog...



## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

So my tank has been up and running since April (setup this time last year but inhabited since April). 

Got 4 Leucs all from the same tank, same size, same time. 3 of these frogs have grown and are about 2 inches long and filled out well, but one has stayed small by comparison and Id estimate is about half the size of the others and always looks very skinny and thin. 

It eats when the others eats, seems active and mobile around the tank and doesn't seem not to be feeding.

So the question is do I need to do anything and if so what, and why might this one little frog have stayed so small?!


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## PhylloBro (Sep 21, 2018)

I just went through a similar situation with some bicolors. They are were staying thin but one was far thinner than the rest. It still ate just didnt gain any size. I went through tests and treatments thinking that it was potentially parasites. Since returning the frog to the group from quarantine, they have began losing size again. Something the vet said is when frogs are stressed they release pheromones that may cause stress to frogs in their environment. The words she used were "toxing eachother out". A visible sign of a stressed frog is "sucking in", making them appear very thin. A potential cause of this is lack of space for the individuals. What size enclosure are they in?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

first thing to do - separate the smaller one immediately. 

Whether it's failure to thrive or a stress or eating issue, unless you seperate it quickly it will go downhill fast.


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Regards viv size, its 3ft w, 1ft d, 2ft h, with lots of levels and climbing space and hiding spaces which all the frogs make use of.

To get an idea of scale see the below picture along with one of the what i hope is healthy frogs in the foreground.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V7M_AePM6PRoME6Pv8iiok4rd_cy1lxo/view?usp=drivesdk


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Some more close up pics of a couple of the non skinny ones here.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1VGh-c059Mr9NDv6FYVw-0T-FoiA3ghNM

Have setup a temporary viv to take the skinny one when I find it (there are lots of places it could be hiding) and will post pics of it when I do.

Thanks for advice!


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Missus got a pic the day I posted this up:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vm5aBtICOdO7GG8h6qRZxu0_2Aqam373/view?usp=drivesdk

Doesn't look in a good way 😞


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## PhylloBro (Sep 21, 2018)

That’s scary thin. Your vivarium is absolutely beautiful though. Does your thin frog hang out on the glass a lot or hide? Which more?


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Really is a bit of a mixture. Often down where I tend to drop the flies in, other times up on the back wall, sometimes can spot among the leaf litter and then other times not see for a few days. Theres a couple spots they can hide that theres no way of getting to like behind a cork tube stuck to the back wall so other than breaking down the tank to go hunting is a case of waiting for a day or so and keep checking until I see and can move to the temporary setup.


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## PhylloBro (Sep 21, 2018)

i would quarantine and feed it lots of flies. see if it starts to gain some size. If nothing improves id get at least a fecal test to check for parasites. That guy is really thin.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

PhylloBro said:


> i would quarantine and feed it lots of flies. see if it starts to gain some size. If nothing improves id get at least a fecal test to check for parasites. That guy is really thin.


This. Pull it out. Something is very wrong with that one. 

The others -- and your viv -- look great, though.


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## Derek64 (Sep 28, 2019)

There is a guy in Orlando that sells subterranean termites which I have always been told will fatten a frog up fast... he can be reaches at 407-864-7746 and his name is Charles Brooks. I don't know if the number is a cell or landline...


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## bssknox (Apr 24, 2017)

As others have said, pull it out immediately. Feed it FF larva in addition to the flies. If you have rice flour beetles, their larva is nice and fattening too.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Derek64 said:


> There is a guy in Orlando that sells subterranean termites which I have always been told will fatten a frog up fast... he can be reaches at 407-864-7746 and his name is Charles Brooks. I don't know if the number is a cell or landline...


ONLY feed termites to healthy frogs. They have decent mandibles. 

FF Larvae and small melanogaster are best practice for skinny / problem feedings.


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## Do_Gon (Aug 18, 2018)

I have the same issue with one of the three I bought last year. One is half the size of the other two. Nowhere near as skinny as this one but I had just chalked it up to being a male. Could someone take a look at mine also if I post pix/created a thread? I don't want to hijack this thread.


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## Budde (Mar 7, 2018)

To be on the safe side I would suggest to test for parasites. I think it is not a big deal to test it. And you can safe your whole stock if you have an infestation.

Here in Germany a test is below 20 Euro. I don't know how much it is in the US.


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

I'm in the UK so will need to look into testing.

Managed to find him (?) today...now gorging himself on a culture of Springtails in the temporary home. Will add dusted flies once settled tomorrow.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZIrBUc3O6cxERb3w1_xF-5Df7VDIjxMb/view?usp=drivesdk

Fingers crossed he puts weight on. Re parasites I'll look into it but surely given I bought all 4 at the same time from the same tank they'd all have it and be affected?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

stubbo said:


> Re parasites I'll look into it but surely given I bought all 4 at the same time from the same tank they'd all have it and be affected?


Not necessarily. If the parasite has an indirect life cycle, or the pathogen is one that causes symptoms only in immune-compromised animals, then rest of the group could be unaffected. A qualified exotics vet would be able to advise after diagnosis.


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Fair enough will look for one. Not sure we have any in travelling distance (Googled Dart Frog parasite testing UK and came up blank for the UK in general).


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Found a Vet nearby that does feacals in house so will check in with them.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

FF larvae in a feeding station / banana is very good to consider too


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

stubbo said:


> Found a Vet nearby that does feacals in house so will check in with them.


Here in the US, I've not encountered a vet of any sort that doesn't do in house fecals -- it is the most basic of tests.

Looks like in the UK the professional organization for exotics vets is the British Veterinary Zoological Society:

https://www.bvzs.org/about-us

The worry is that dog and cat vets who are trying to be helpful in seeing a frog don't have the requisite experience; I'm not trying to be pretentious, but I've had the pleasure of dealing with an ARAV vet and the difference in knowledge is night and day.

Here's a vet finder for the UK; you'll still have to check out the credentials of the vets listed:

https://www.vetark.co.uk/pages/vets-search-results.aspx

If you do a simple web search, terms like "exotics vet" will get you more hits than will terms that are overly specific.


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Vet local to me claims to have specialists in exotics so will give them a call Monday and see what they say. Ultimately I guess they'll run a test and find what they find and then I'll go from there


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Would you cut a piece out of the temp enclosure and cover in mesh? At the moment is a bit of a sealed box with no air flow, wheras my viv has mesh front and top to support some passive airflow. I know they're ok in very high humidity, but figure would be best for it to be a bit lower?!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

yeah, they need proper ventilation and air movement.


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## stubbo (Jul 21, 2018)

Unfortunately he didnt make it 😞 came home today to find him lifeless 😞


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## PBM3000 (Oct 4, 2019)

That's a shame. I'm willing to bet though, the fecal test would have been four times as expensive here as in the US though... as per everything else!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

you waited too long. Not to pile on, but we need to make this a teaching moment.

Kudos for you for posting this though. We all lose frogs. It happens. 

They go downhill quickly. Days matter.


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## raycentral (Oct 25, 2019)

Hate to see it. Live and learn tho.


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