# Spirulina (or Chlorella) vs Astaxanthin



## crbonade (May 13, 2021)

For those of you who do your own carotenoid mixes (either for dusting or for mixing into FF cultures), do you prefer Spirulina (or Chlorella) or straight Astaxanthin (and why)? Do you adjust ratios for one compared to the other? I assume if you use straight Astaxanthin you would need less than if you used Spirulina...?

I've been doing a lot of reading on the forums about carotenoids lately, and I'm curious what folks choose to use and why


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## gluedl (Oct 8, 2008)

OOW potential Minefield....

Disclaimer: I am no biologist nor some food scientist; what follows is based on my personal experience and what I red in threads on Dendroboard and Dendrobatenforum over the years. I do NOT recommend you to follow my steps - especially when some guy I know claims that Astaxanthin killed one of his frogs...

The Astaxanthin I purchased from Amzön was very granular, so I grinded it to an extra fine powder, it will not stick to anything otherwise. I mix Astaxanthin with Repashy Calcium+ (about 30/70) and dust the feeder insects every time with it.

Side note about the dead german frog: I remember Ed pointing to a specific paper years ago - the result showed no liver or kidney damage in the tested anurans with Astaxanthin, so my best guess is that the german frog had some other issues.

My FF mix goes like this: per 1 pound of ready made commercial FF mix I add


2 tablespoons of Spirulina powder as a pre Vit A / Vit A source and because it "gelies" even the most soggy ff mix
2 tablespoons of freeze dried carrot powder as an additional source of carotenes
2 tablespoons of freeze dried cranberry powder as a source for antioxidants, sugar
1/2 teaspoon of SuperPig as a source for carotenes / as SuperPig seems to contain some interesting additional carotenes to Astaxanthin and because I have trouble making it stick to ffs
1 teaspoon of amino acids for fat assed ffs
1 pinch of methyl paraben

The ffs thrive and seem bigger and definitely more orange. And the frogs? Left was first September this year, right was 11th November










And yes I also have UVB Lamps, on 2 h a day.

BOOOOM

Gluedl out


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

I have been using Ranarium Carotenoid Plus in my FF mixes, similar to how @gluedl is doing. I've found basically zero difference in my Ranitomeya, but have been using it along with some direct dusting on my Firebelly toad froglets. I've found a deepening of reds on their bellies (as most CB FBT's end up a very muted orange).


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## gluedl (Oct 8, 2008)

I suppose, dusting is most efficient compared to adding to the ff mix. But I can only stress on the potential organ damage by adding too much...


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

gluedl said:


> I suppose, dusting is most efficient compared to adding to the ff mix. But I can only stress on the potential organ damage by adding too much...


I use it once every two weeks as a dusting, which is less often than the recommended dosing. I don't dose any of my darts directly with it, just mix it in the FF mix in a similar manner you do.


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

Adding the carotenoids to your fly media won't really help color up your frogs unless you are feeding them the larva. See Ed's post on the subject from a while back.

"With respect to sequestration of carotenoids from media in larvae carried over to adults, this really doesn't occur as the majority of the carotenoids are excreted during pupation (see Giovannucci, David R., and Robert S. Stephenson. "Identification and distribution of dietary precursors of the Drosophila visual pigment chromophore: analysis of carotenoids in wild type and ninaD mutants by HPLC." Vision research 39.2 (1999): 219-229.).

some comments

Ed "

There are other benefits though as carotenoids do seem to extend the lifespan of the flies themselves. See the below study.








‘Carrot’ Pigment Found to Extend Lifespan of Nematodes and Drosophila Flies


Scientists from MIPT recently managed to extend the lifespan of drosophila flies and nematodes by adding to their diet carotenoids – substances contained in large amounts in brown algae and orange fruits and vegetables, for example carrots – so say the researchers in an article accepted for...




mipt.ru






I do see a significant change in coloration when I supplement by dusting my flies with carotenoids usually twice a week.

Brazilian Yellow Head before supplementation









After









WC Nicaraguan Blue Jeans. Here you can see clear difference between the newer one on the right that had yet been supplemented compared to the one on the left I had for several months.









EDIT:

I will have to find the study but I remember reading that there is also a link to how much total carotenoid absorption is possible based off the amount of carotenoids present in the parent frogs at the time of egg laying. If I remember correctly a grossly oversimplified example goes like this:

If parent frogs have little to no carotenoids present at the time of egg laying, then the new frogs will not only be less colorful but their maximum amount of coloration possible even with supplementation is also greatly reduced.

If parent frogs have normal levels of carotenoids present then the young will also be more intensely colored and the intensity has greater potential to improve with supplementation as they can absorb more.


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