# Got GREAT yields, what i did different



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

1. Well, I have been using the cheapest available brewers yeast they had at GNC the one in the green and yellow container. I decided to make a bulk batch so i wouldnt have to do it for a while. Since I was making such a large batch i decided to get the more expensive brand of brewers yeast in ia clear glass jar. I used the recipe for the carolina botanical's media on doyles.

2. I also noticed how the brewers and powder sugar is so fine that it would sink to the bottom of the container and would never stay mixed good. So this time i put it in a food processor all together to get the potatoe flakes ground up and mixed perfectly.

Since of did this, my yields have trippled. This is ZERO exageration. I'd like to know if anyone else would give this a shot and see if they get the same results.

PS This was with D. Mel.

Ryan


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*recipe*

Ryan
I dont have an answer for you but could you steer me to a link for the carolinas media recipe
Thanks


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

Yea please throw the link up for anyone to look at quickly, Thanks for the information!


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Home made "Carolina Mix" I now sell this mix. Click Here for more info.
by Christina Hanson 

Normal Amount Large Batch 
1 cup of powdered sugar 
4 teaspoons Methyl paraben 
8 cups potato flakes 
1/2 - 1 cup of brewers yeast. 
Makes approx. 30 1/3 cup cultures.
3 cups of powdered sugar 
1/4 cup Methyl paraben 
6 quarts cups potato flakes 
1.5 - 3 cups of brewers yeast.
Makes approx. 2 gallons of media (approx 100 1/3 cup cultures).




Sift the powdered sugar and the Methyl paraben into a gallon or larger ziplock bag or container. 
Shake well. 



Add brewer yeast and shake again.


Add the potato flakes and brewers yeast to the ziplock bag and shake well. 

Use the same amount as the Carolina Biological Mixture. I normally use 1/3 to 1/2 cups of media mixed with equal amounts of hot water in a quart jar. This is the media I most frequently use.
The cost is approx. $0.08 per culture 

Note: 
Methyl paraben, also called Tegosept is a mold inhibitor. It can be purchased from Carolina Biological 800-334-5551 / http://www.carolina.com. The following are the catalog numbers, amounts, and prices. 
ba-87-6161 - 30g - $7.25 
ba-87-6163 - 100g - $14.50 
ba-87-6165 - 500g - $28.50 



got that from DoylesDartDen.com


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*recipe*

thanks ryan 
that was an excellent response and much appreciated ...

Shawn


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

What did you use to grind it up? I have thought about doing that but would need to buy something to do it. I keep mine in a larger plastic container, and just shake it up before using.


----------



## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

Ryan,
Good tip. I put some in the food processor right after I saw your post and so far the results look promising. 

Besides the fact that it seems to lead to better yields, it also reduces the dry volume to about half and reduces storage space.

I get my Brewers yeast 5lbs at a time from http://www.bulkfoods.com . Haven't found a lower price yet ($18.41 including shipping). I also buy Agar from here. If you don't like soupy cultures - Agar is the cure (acts much the same as gelatin). Although it's a bit pricey, a little goes a looonnnggg way.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I used a food proccessor, you realy only need to grind up the potatoe flakes as the rest is usually fine as it is if you get good brand of brewers. The spaces it saves is pretty amazing considering alls your doing is grinding up pototoe flakes, but if you keep alot of media it could do wonders and allow you to save half the space.

Ryan


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*media colorant*

I notice that some commercial fly culture media contain a colorant (ie Blk Jungle is blue) which is added to make it easier to view the maggots and how much media is left in the cultures...I assume. Does anyone add a similar colorant to the home made media? What is it?

Shawn


----------



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

I don't find the need to color mine, but I'd assume food coloring would be fine.


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*food coloring*

Hey I figured a drop or two of food coloring, but I wanted to find out if others tried anything else.
Thanks

Shawn


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2005)

Folks,

If the "food coloring" is a light green, I think what appears to be food coloring is actually a mold inhibitor called malachite green. It is often used in commercial mixes. If your media is another color besides light brown, your guess as to food coloring is probably correct.

The only things I do differently than Ryan are add molasses which turns the media a darker brown, and my main mix is applesause and oatmeal. 

Dave Willmore


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

For those who use Malachite Green(sp) how much do you use? That is way easier to find then Methyl Paraben.

Thanks
Ryan


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2005)

Ryan,

I use just enough to turn the media a light green, probably the same color as you see in the green commercial mixes. I saw an interesting variant on this at the IAD show in Maryland, where someone had sprayed a dark green layer on just the top area of the media. This would put the malachite green where it is needed to prevent blue mold - just on the top of the media. I'll give this a try when I get around to it. I seed my media with activated yeast and hope the higher concentration of mold inhibitor will not affect the yeast.

Dave Willmore


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

What type of food processor? I may get one...


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Hamilton Beach, I got it at a local Publix(grocier store) for 25. I like it alot, other attachments work good for preparing foood for the bearded dragons.

Ryan


----------



## Guest (Jun 27, 2005)

Regarding coloring: I added a bit of spirulina powder to my mix, and the medium turns all green once I add water to it. Hopefully it's adding more nutrients too. 

Ken


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I have added spirulina as a test to half my cultures in the past with poor results. I did it twice about 4 months apart and the spirulina cultures where fine in both tests but they just didn't produce the aggressive culture that the others did. I will be interested in knowing how this works for you.

*I have also tried the GNC brewer yeast and I have had a significant positive impact on my cultures. I don't think the blending or powdering had any effect at least not to what I can notice, I use a mixer at the end of my mixing and maybe this adds up to the same thing.

For 11 cultures – 32oz deli cups 
1 cups shifted powder sugar mixed with
4 cups potato flakes. Then mix in 
1/2 cup of brewers yeast from GNC.
Mix all dry goods thoroughly.
I don’t store but make new batch each time.
To the dry mix above add:
2 cups apple vinegar
2 cups apple sauce
2 cups of Juice (I use apple juice or sunny delight and I combine if I am short of one, it usually doesn’t matter).
Mix thoroughly with a hand mixer.


After mixing distribute a 2/3 cup of your mix to each of the containers. Flatten the media down with a spoon or another 32oz container. Sprinkle about 40-50 grains of Red Star Quick Rise Yeast on top, and smooth in with a spoon keeping the yeast on the top of the media. At this point there are 3 options to do next:
1. Add Coffee filters but I would recommend doubling them up so they don't fall over as easy but you may still have a problem. I will add 3 sets of 2 filters per 32oz container.
2. Add excelsior.
3. Do not add any coffee filters or excelsior and wait till the FF pupates to add one or the other. The advantage of this is that both the coffee filters or excelsior do not become laden down with moisture as quickly recommended).

Add a generous amount of FF and seal with cover. I use Ed’s Fly Meats covers with round sponges for ventilation, and with this set up I do not have to respray during the life of the culture. You must be careful not to over mist when setting up the culture, too much water is worse than too little(you can always spray later if needed). If you prefer using a coffee filter for ventilation this has some pluses under the right conditions but you will probably be forced to spray occasionally in order to have higher yields, I just don’t like the extra work and FF escapes during spraying. You know when the culture is drying out by when the maggots don’t travel far from the media. You want your maggots to go to the top of the coffee filters and all the way up the sides of the container. This will give you higher yields longer but again don’t over mist or this will make your media soupy and/or crash your culture because of maggot rot. I also use throw away plastic deli cups. I used to use canning jars and really this is WAY too much work and you will begin to hate to whole project because of being forced to clean out jars that have hard dried medium on the bottom and stink and generally gross. I have 5 kids to clean jars for me and it was always a nightmare, plus jars break and you can't gently tap the side to knock out the FFs. If you are having problems with mites taking over or if you are having issues with moisture as the culture ages than only put 1/2 cup of mix in each container and shorten the cycle.

I don’t use mold inhibitor and have never had a problem but I do put a generous amount of FF so that they aggressively consume the top not allowing mold to develop. I also do not heat or warm the liquid for the mix and therefore do not need to have a cool down period. You will want to keep your FF cultures at about 78-80 degrees for optimum yields. I keep mine by my hot water heater, this isn’t perfect but close. The more discriminating will setup a closet or cabinet that can be monitored and controlled. As far as lighting is concerned I haven’t seen much of an impact. I have kept them in the complete dark and left them in bright light. Generally now I just keep them somewhere in the middle and whatever is convenient to me. Under no circumstances should you use FF from two different lines of cultures, this can cause cultures to have FF that can fly and then you may be forced to start all over. I generally like to take a culture that is just stuffed with FF and use that one culture’s FF for 8 new cultures. You know you have really done a great job on the culture when at the end of the life of that culture it is just caked with maggot shells. When feeding the FF direct and not dusting I just remove the lid and lightly tap the side of the culture to knock down the FFs. I find that after a period of time the PDF no longer fears me tapping the container but it actually means meal time and they come running. With thumbnails I generally like to deposit my food low because the FF will travel up toward the light and this seems to give an even dispersion prohibiting only a few select frogs from grabbing all the food. On the other hand if you are feeding your larger frogs and have a number in the same tank if is best to land the FF into the plants, again so that you have all your frogs being able to get at a good supply and reduce stress and fighting. If you are only talking about a pair of frogs per tank it doesn’t matter much. I tend to feed my PDF twice a day once in the morning and again late afternoon. I also will at time leave a culture in the tank with my frogs if I see undue stress or feeding concerns. They will go in the culture and snap up the maggots and get real plumpy. I recommend using a notebook and jot down the changes you make and their effects and share them with the group. Use at your own risk, it works for me and is half the fun of having PDF(not really).


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*FF cultures*

David
That was all very helpful information. Thanks.
I plan on adding juice next time and the vinegar (neither of which I used in the past)
I am also using regular yeast not Brewers so will make that change also.

Shawn


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

Actually thanks should go to Ryan! This GNC brewers yeast is fantastic and is the single largest development I have had in 8 years. I am now coming off of my second batch of cultures using this and he is right it literally has doubled or possibly tripled my out put. What I am excited to see is if this has had such a dramatic effect on FF what is the eventual effect on my PDFs going to be? I am only expecting good out of this like healthier frogs, better egg production, better established tads, better color.....etc. If I see more changes I'll post but I expect this won't be able to seen for months or more.

THANKS RYAN FOR SHARING AND I HOPE YOU STUMBLED ON THE HOLY GRAIL OF NUTRITION FOR PDFs


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

lol, glad you found it useful  . Just had to post it because of the difference between the quality of yeast is insane, and before I always thought that brewers yeast is brewers yeast, but couldnt of been more off.

Ryan


----------



## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

cheap yeast 

http://store.yahoo.com/allpetvetsupply/mibrdrye.html


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I had to edit the above mix on July 29th because of moisture issues as the culture ages if you use the sponges for ventilation. This also helps if you have issues of mites over taking you culture as it grows older by shortening the cycle.


----------



## Blort (Feb 5, 2005)

Just wondering once you run the mixture through a food processor, how much do you use per culture. I had been doing 1/3c media with 1/4c vinegar and 1/4 c water for mela and 1/2c media with 3/4 c water for hydei with good results. I had also been adding a little of the baker's yeast slurry from Jerry's post. So, should I stick with 1/3c and 1/2c for media even after it is ground since now it has a lot more weight per cup?


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I havent actually measured, but you end up adding more water then you normally would. I just get itto lilttle runnier then peanut butter. I also recommend using pretty hot water, as it gets the potatoe flakes to expand better.

Ryan


----------



## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

My problem is cultures drying out prematurely. When a skin develops on top, the flies can't lay their eggs, but when I added water, many of the flies would drown because the medium didn't soak it up fast enough. So I switched to rolled up paper towels in the cultures. I fold them up into a U shape, then stick both ends deep into the medium. Then if a culture starts to dry out before the medium is gone, I add water and it is soaked up almost immediately by the paper towels, which transport it througout the medium. Less fly mortality = more eggs = more offspring.


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Good idea, lately I have been using plastic mesh. So far I am just now having cultures dryout(current ones, think i didnt heat the water enough) and have no way to add water, maybe i can put some paper towels in there somehow today.

Ryan


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*GNC*

The GNC at our Mall didn't have the Brewers Yeast powder in the glass jars.
I have been using Carolina's Brewers Yeast and with the addition of organic 100% Apple Juice instead of H20 my yeilds are better.
I'll keep looking in GNC when I see one....to find the other yeast...

Thanks

Shawn


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

Shawn,
did you notice any negative impact as your culture aged?


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*AGING CULTURES*

Well I think all cultures 'age' and production falls...but I don't think I have noticed a difference b't aging cultures made with H20/ commercial mixes or those made with the recipe posted earlier and apple juice. 
Have you?
I have not had any problems with mold but mites have plaqued my set-ups because I grow orchids in the same basement room under HID lights and I think that impacts my 'exposure' to the mites. I can't use pesticides b/c of the PDF's so it is a constant battle with the plants and the FF's.
Once my FF cultures get to be 3-4 weeks old the mites take over and the production falls...I have recently tried making new starter FF containers with only fly's dusted 3x over to rid them of their mites and then all the cultures are put on miticide paper (Carolina) and kept on the other side of the room. So far the yeilds have been good with the above medium recipe and with keeping new cultures away from the old.

Shawn


----------



## C.A.Caron (Apr 30, 2004)

Hi everyone and thanks for the info. I'm currently using the applesauce/apple mix but I think I'm going to change for the north carolina mix because of big mold problems.

Just a question: What I like about the mix I'm now using is that you can make a big batch, freeze it and just make cultures from time to time by just adding flies and baker yeast. Is it possible to do the same with the NC mix?

Thanks,

Charles


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*mix*

I make a large patch DRY and hold it in the fridge in zip lock bags.
Then add apple juice or H20 to small amounts as needed.

Shawn


----------

