# Fiberglass resin?



## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

I was thinking about building a background for one of my tanks, and Ive seen that when building trees in larger display vivs like ones you see in zoos or large scale vivs, they use what seems like a fiberglass structure. Now this has me wondering if I can build say a small tree out of fiberglass/resin. Now my concerns are if there will be any sort of chemical leakage. Is the fiberglass resin you find at your LHS ok to use? BONDO fiberglass resin for example. Would sealing the structure in a safer coating help prevent any leeching if any? 

Thanks for any input.


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

They are using an epoxy resin with a fiberglass cloth. the cloth is where the strength lies. it is simply spun micro stands of glass which when coated with the resin acts like rebar in concrete. I would highly NOT recommend fiberglass resin aka polyurethane resin. This is because it has a very high percentage or releasing reaction chemicals after it has cured. The catalyst used is not friendly. Epoxy is far more safe to use. It reacts on a molecular ratio, so if you mix it CORRECTLY there is very little issue with post cure leeching. There are some threads discussing this, they all end in a mute point from what I have seen. but I have used a couple companies and have had 0 issues. I have also used it in saltwater aquariums with 0 issues and this was 3+ years ago. you can paint the resin, you can sand it, you can carve it depending on the product you get, you can do all types of stuff with it. You can make your trunk out of foam then coat with epoxy resin and not even bother with the fiberglass cloth. there are too many options. choose a marine grade epoxy for safest results. if you want sculptable epoxy look at apoxie sculpt by aves studio, its cheaper then zoopoxy and just as safe if not the exact same thing. also west system epoxy makes a great epoxy for viv use.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Incorrect. 

You mean't to call the fiberglass resin commonly sold as "fiberglass resin" polyESTER resin. Not polyURETHANE. Polyurethane resins and foams have been used in the industry for a long time with no ill effects and is what not only what my products are made from but is also what GS foam is made of. And yes, polyESTER resin is some nasty stuff! Stay away from it! Not only are the fumes horrible and take a long time to outgas, but the methylethylketone catalyst is pretty bad news too. Not to mention it's a giant pain to work with material wise. The reaction can be messed up pretty easy resulting in an exotherm so hot it will melt through your container and set stuff on fire... Been there, done that, don't recommend it.

Now as for epoxy, it's the safest way to go. Or at least of what is currently available to the average consumer. When he says "marine grade" he means saltwater aquarium 'marine' not boat. Many boat specific epoxies contain "anti-fouling" agents on them to help ward off critters from adhering onto the bottom of the boat. So you want one that's been used in the saltwater aquarium industry with success.

As for saying that Ave's and Zoopoxie and are the same... I disagree with this. The chemical makeup is very similar, but they all use different fillers/ratios and catalysts which changes the workability of the product. I've worked with epoxy putties extensively and there is a wide range of physical properties between them all. It just depends on what your sculpting skill level is, how much material you plan to be kneeding at any one time, what color you want, and how heavy you want your final piece to be.


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

VivariumWorks said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> You mean't to call the fiberglass resin commonly sold as "fiberglass resin" polyESTER resin. Not polyURETHANE. Polyurethane resins and foams have been used in the industry for a long time with no ill effects and is what not only what my products are made from but is also what GS foam is made of. And yes, polyESTER resin is some nasty stuff! Stay away from it! Not only are the fumes horrible and take a long time to outgas, but the methylethylketone catalyst is pretty bad news too. Not to mention it's a giant pain to work with material wise. The reaction can be messed up pretty easy resulting in an exotherm so hot it will melt through your container and set stuff on fire... Been there, done that, don't recommend it.
> 
> ...


Correct I did mean Polyester resin. the rest still stands correct.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Wow! Awesome Thanks for your very informative responses, I will now look into the ones you've suggested, as well as the saltwater marine grade epoxy. Again thanks for the great info.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i got my epoxy and fiberglass from us composites. nice site and i thought the prices were good. large selection of different resins and types of glass. they also sell tints that you can use to dye the resin. that way you have color in the epoxy itself instead of just on the surface.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

skanderson said:


> i got my epoxy and fiberglass from us composites. nice site and i thought the prices were good. large selection of different resins and types of glass. they also sell tints that you can use to dye the resin. that way you have color in the epoxy itself instead of just on the surface.


Awesome! I will look into that manufacturer. And the tinting dye. thanks!


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## RoadShenanigans (Jan 10, 2011)

eyeviper said:


> They are using an epoxy resin with a fiberglass cloth. the cloth is where the strength lies. it is simply spun micro stands of glass which when coated with the resin acts like rebar in concrete. I would highly NOT recommend fiberglass resin aka polyurethane resin. This is because it has a very high percentage or releasing reaction chemicals after it has cured. The catalyst used is not friendly. Epoxy is far more safe to use. It reacts on a molecular ratio, so if you mix it CORRECTLY there is very little issue with post cure leeching. There are some threads discussing this, they all end in a mute point from what I have seen. but I have used a couple companies and have had 0 issues. I have also used it in saltwater aquariums with 0 issues and this was 3+ years ago. you can paint the resin, you can sand it, you can carve it depending on the product you get, you can do all types of stuff with it. You can make your trunk out of foam then coat with epoxy resin and not even bother with the fiberglass cloth. there are too many options. choose a marine grade epoxy for safest results. if you want sculptable epoxy look at apoxie sculpt by aves studio, its cheaper then zoopoxy and just as safe if not the exact same thing. also west system epoxy makes a great epoxy for viv use.


Do you have more info on the fiberglass resin, post curing chemical leaching? I built my viv out of this material, haven't had any issues with it in the last year, but I'm just now reading this thread and am worried. My boyfriend is very skilled at laying the resin and taught me how to do it properly. We built the viv and it has been setup and running for a year now with no troubles. Are potential dangers with using this product a result of improper mixing? or just a side effect of it even after it is cured properly? And what kind of chemicals are we talking about? How harmful are they? Thank you for posting your info!


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## RoadShenanigans (Jan 10, 2011)

VivariumWorks said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> You mean't to call the fiberglass resin commonly sold as "fiberglass resin" polyESTER resin. Not polyURETHANE. Polyurethane resins and foams have been used in the industry for a long time with no ill effects and is what not only what my products are made from but is also what GS foam is made of. And yes, polyESTER resin is some nasty stuff! Stay away from it! Not only are the fumes horrible and take a long time to outgas, but the methylethylketone catalyst is pretty bad news too. Not to mention it's a giant pain to work with material wise. The reaction can be messed up pretty easy resulting in an exotherm so hot it will melt through your container and set stuff on fire... Been there, done that, don't recommend it.
> 
> ...


Isn't methylethylketone naturally occuring? I thought much of polyester resin was made up of organic compounds. Are the dangers just in the mixing and curing process? I know you can cause some major damage if you don't know how to use it, but once it is done properly and cured, are we still looking at a dangerous chemical issue?


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

if your viv has been set up for a year you have probably made it through most of the leaching that could possible have been dangerous. as an aside saying something is organic and made of natural compounds does not mean in any way that it is safe. after all we are dealing with frogs that in their native habitat are capable of killing multiple large animals with natural organic compounds they exude.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

The polyester resin can leach out styrene into the water that can build up and cause problems. 

Methylethylketone is the catalyst that is used to start the polymerization. The problem is that it is not used up in the reaction as it is a true catalyst and can leach out of the matrix at a later time. As it is highly volatile it will likely do this early on, but as we are talking about a solid polymer matrix, leaching rates are determined in years not minutes. 

If your tank has been up and running a year, it's most likely it's fine. Key thing is that you were "taught how to do it properly" which means you likely got the resin/catylist ratios right. It's just not something that should be worked with by novice builders as it is way too easy to ruin your viv with it. Plus it's a much much worse material toxicity wise to handle compared to epoxy.


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## RoadShenanigans (Jan 10, 2011)

That was what I was hoping to hear, thank you, next viv will be made out of epoxy for sure!


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

skanderson said:


> if your viv has been set up for a year you have probably made it through most of the leaching that could possible have been dangerous. as an aside saying something is organic and made of natural compounds does not mean in any way that it is safe. after all we are dealing with frogs that in their native habitat are capable of killing multiple large animals with natural organic compounds they exude.


Bingo. so many people hear "naturally occuring" and assume safe...That is by no means the case.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

eyeviper said:


> Bingo. so many people hear "naturally occuring" and assume safe...That is by no means the case.


Snake venom is naturally occuring


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

botox and ricin are other great examples.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

skanderson said:


> botox and ricin are other great examples.


Botox... one of the most deadly substances known to man. Used as a beauty product. That explains why I don't understand women... 

Jake


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

skanderson said:


> botox and ricin are other great examples.


Yep. I love that they condensed "*Bo*tulinum *tox*in" into Botox as the name of a commercially available beauty product!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Men were not "designed" to understand women or they would never have been talked out of a rib...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

jacobi said:


> Botox... one of the most deadly substances known to man. Used as a beauty product. That explains why I don't understand women...
> 
> Jake


 
You mean that you thought it was normal for a person to want to learn to walk around on high heels? Sorry I tossed in the towel years ago just on the observation of high heels.... 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

and to think that you may never have pondered what that necktie thingie was supposed to be about???


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Judy S said:


> and to think that you may never have pondered what that necktie thingie was supposed to be about???



You mean it isn't a convenient method to allow a smaller person to strangle a larger person? I thought it was just a fashionable method to hang guys with... 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

see how smart cutting off a little circulation can make one???


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Judy S said:


> Men were not "designed" to understand women or they would never have been talked out of a rib...


Adam was sleeping... 

Jake


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

likely on the couch, feet propped up..beer getting warm..with the remote in his nearby hand....


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

It was a well earned rest after a hard days mammoth hunt!

Jake


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