# UV - Glass vs Acrylic



## buscema (Nov 3, 2005)

I'm creating some tops for my vivs and was trying to make sure that UV is transmitted for the health of the plants.

I was at Home Depot and they had Lexan (which has UV filter) and regular acrylic. Didn't know if this acrylic was ok or if I need to get special acrylic...

I'm hoping not to use glass since I want to do some drilling and acrylic is so much easier. And not sure of the UV transmission through glass as well...

Thanks.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Special acrylic is needed to transmit UV. What UV are you interested in transmitting? If you do a search on this site for UV or op4 you'll pull up the info you're after.


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## buscema (Nov 3, 2005)

defaced said:


> Special acrylic is needed to transmit UV. What UV are you interested in transmitting? If you do a search on this site for UV or op4 you'll pull up the info you're after.


I've searched the site and maybe I'll asking the wrong question. I'm planting in the vivs with plants that need strong light. DOes strong light and UV mean the same? Does the 6500K light go through acrylic and glass?


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## 311_dart (May 20, 2006)

check out:
http://www.doylesdartden.com/lighting.htm

should explain that UV is light at a higher frequency than 'visible light', and 6500k is the color temperature as well as adress your acrylic questions.


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## buscema (Nov 3, 2005)

So, OP-4 is about $120 per sheet (3' x 7')!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's pretty expensive. 

Does anyone have any problems using just glass or plain acrylic??

Wanting to get the plants healthy!!!


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html#UVB%20list

http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html

David
Where are the experts when you need them? :wink: 

Is UV really necessary for the health of our #1 Frogs, #2 Plants?

I have grown orchids under lights for yrs, typically MH and HPS lamps with excellent productivity although I will admit a dose of real sunlight seems to benefit the plants. How much UV were they or were they not getting under lights? I dont think much, if any, as they are typically shielded for protection of 'people' :wink: 

Obviously you need some type of lid on the tanks. And glass or plexi would seem best to keep in FF's, frogs and humidity. Glass allows most transmission [less of UVB] and is cheap, cuttable, drillable ect. The OP4 allows proper UV transmission but as you see is expensive.

Can you find out how full spectrum your lights are before you worry about transmission...you may need to upgrade bulbs also...or not...but they might not be emitting full spectrum [UV and visible light] anyway.

If it were me I would use glass [which is what I use already] and just get the proper drill equipment. I think Ed K listed a good and cheap source of drill bits for glass on Frognet recently and I picked up a table top drill press for 99$, just for this type of thing...

Shawn


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

oh.....

..... and 'strong light' typically translates to MORE wattage and closer distances....

So broaden the spectrum of the lamps AND add more lamps (more wattage) or higher wattage set-ups like HID lighting, CF's ect..

Different color temp bulbs can be combined in multi-bulb set ups to broaden the spectrum of transmitted light also..

S


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "Is UV really necessary for the health of our #1 Frogs, "endsnip 

It depends what you mean by necessary... 
If you are referring to the conversion of provitamin D to D3 then no, UVB lighting is not necessary for the frogs. 

Now we can have a discussion about the effects of UVA on behavior and possibly feeding. In reptiles (lizards and chelonians) and birds, UVA is important not only for social behavior such as flash markings but pattern recognition. This pattern recognition isn't limited only to each other but the reflectance pattern from many insects. 

Ed


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

so Ed, 

Are [we] getting appreciable amounts of UVA in our typical T8 'Natural', 'Daylight' flourescent lamps? or in the typical 6500K 60/99W CF's? or not...

And if not, do you have a lamp suggestion?

Thanks

S


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

We're getting little to no UV-A from typical office/residential bulbs (from GE's site):

http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/faqs/health.htm#6

Scrolling to the top of the page will give more info on the topic - #2 would be of the most interest. Basically this page says that for most applications they try to minimize UV, with one exception of interest to use is their Aquarium light, which does emit some UV-A.


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## buscema (Nov 3, 2005)

sports_doc said:


> http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html#UVB%20list
> 
> http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html
> 
> ...


I've seen you have lots of plants...so you think that the UVA is the only thing that plants and frogs need and not the UVB which means that Glass is good...

I haven't purchased the lights but was thinking of getting the Home Depot fluorescents lamps and buy the 6500K bulbs...


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I use glass as it has a higher UVA transmission. The cost of OP-4 is not that much different then glass per sq ft. If I was really concerned about increasing UVB, in addition to finding a suitable light source, I would look into thin plastic films mounted in a frame as the top lid for a viv. Of course mechanically the frame/film would not support lights etc. but it would maintain the humidity. Teflon PFA film has a very high solar transmission, 96% and comes in thicknesses to .125. However, thinner is better as it has less scattering. One sight I found had a slightly different .030 telfon film, 12"x24" for under $20, so it's in the ballpark of glass and OP-4/UVT. 

Here's a link for the PFA specs:
http://www2.dupont.com/Teflon_Industria ... h04321.pdf

Check out the Dupont sight for more info.

EricG.NH
P.S. I'm not an optical engineer nor do I play one on TV.


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## buscema (Nov 3, 2005)

pl259 said:


> I use glass as it has a higher UVA transmission. The cost of OP-4 is not that much different then glass per sq ft.


Well...I did some research and the OP-4 comes in 3'x7' sheets for $120+shipping...

This is MUCH more expensive than going to the hardware store or home depot...


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

That's $5.71 a sqft, which is on par for .25" glass. Sure you have to buy 21sqft at a time, but that's not rediculously priced.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I wasn't including the shipping, but $120 for 21 sqft is $5.71 per sqft, which
is about in the middle of the range for cut glass at the glass shop. Not sure how thick the sheet of OP-4 is you were quoted, but 1/4" plate glass can get pretty pricey. 

I offered the comparison because I thought you might be able to share the cost with someone else, if they realized the cost wasn't all that different then glass and you likely only need a small piece.

Also, I'm not positive but OP-4 may have a "life", meaning it's ability to pass UV may degrade with time and exposure. I think I read that somewhere in the archives but I'm not sure.

EricG.NH


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## buscema (Nov 3, 2005)

defaced said:


> That's $5.71 a sqft, which is on par for .25" glass. Sure you have to buy 21sqft at a time, but that's not rediculously priced.


Glass at the home depot is about 1/2 the price of the OP-4...

Plus, no shipping and I can buy the quantity I want and not have the sheet excess.

I think Glass is the way to go since no one has said that plants and PDFs need UVB.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

The glass at HD/Lowes is less than half as thick as .25" glass. I'm willing to pay a little more for glass that won't break if I look at it wrong. 

I think glass is the way to go too, that's not what I was saying.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Unlike UVB, there hasn't been any standardization of the minimal amounts required but as was noted above if you utilize a combination of standard flourescent bulbs like a cool and warm you will have little to no UVA exposure. 

That said, many bulbs that have a significant level of UVB production should be considered to have sufficient UVA (and many bulbs advertised as "full spectrum" maynot produce any UVB but produce fair to moderate amounts of UVA). 

Some thoughts,

Ed


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2006)

The only thing that I have to add to this thread is that I got a set of carbide drill bits on eBay. I got 5 bits for ~$45 including shipping. I haven't had a single piece of glass break yet (knock on wood) after 15+ holes drilled. I use a drill press at 620 RPM (the slowest speed) with a PVC coupler siliconed to the glass and filled with water.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

I've used HD 3/32" glass for years and haven't broken a single piece. Just don't put it in high stress situations and you'll be fine.


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