# Tinc wont put on weight



## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I recently received a group of Giant Orange Tincs in trade from someone. All adult size. All were on the skinny side, with nose rubs from a screen lid. I've had them for near a month now. There are 5. Appears to be a 4.1 group from toe pads. The only one that appears to be female, was extremely skinny. I've isolated her in a quarantine container for the last few weeks hoping she would put some weight on. I was initially worried she may have just been bullied and not eating. The other four are eating well and have put on a good amount of weight quickly on hydei and Turkish gliders. The female though, is not putting on any weight whatsoever. She is active, and will gobble down all the flies I give her. So I am now worried she may have parasites. I know how to collect fecals, but I am wondering what company, vet clinic, etc is best to ship the samples too? In the meantime, I'd like to start a regimen of treatment. I cant remember the correct med....is it Flagyl? Metrodizanole? Or? And can the flies just be dusted with it? Is there any reason I should wait until I receive the outcome of the fecals? Any tips on this? I've never had to deal with this before and want to get into the habit of fecal-ing all new frogs regardless.
Thanks


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I would not treat until you get a positive result from your vet. Then follow his/her recommendation for treatment.

Here's a link for you:http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...ent/82941-looking-someone-do-fecal-tests.html

I overnight fecals with a phase panel to Dr. Frye.


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## frogs are cool (May 22, 2010)

Are they CB or WC? Just have never heard of a CB PDF with snout rub. Not saying it couldnt happen just that it is a common sign of a wild caught animal. Do you have an age of the frog or just they are adult size? Some frogs also start to show their age when old and i have seen real old frogs look real thin and not gain. There are other things to consider than just being parasite related. I also would not start treating until you have a positive result, the treatment could do harm to the frog if it is negative.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

They are CB. Are supposed to be under 2 years. I think they were kept in very small tanks, owner said with screen lids. I have seen tincs jumping at the tops of tanks when flies are crawling from the "ceiling". They don't act all skittish like WC at all, very bold. The skinny ones continues to eat everything I giver her, just stays emaciated though. Its beyond skinny. But strangley, active and responsive.

Beth, why a phase panel? Why not a cold pack to preserve?


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## cml1287 (Mar 29, 2012)

Panacur might be what you're looking for. It's a dewormer. I'd contact Dr. Frye.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

The icepacks melt and sweat, phase panels do not. 
I would get some fecals done on the frog to see if it's parasites that's causing the frog to lose weight.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

For shipping fecal samples, I'd probably use cold packs. Phase panels are designed to keep the box temps in the high 60s to low 70s. I think that's too warm for a fecal sample.

First I'd try to find a local vet who can do the sample (vet doesn't have to be exotic to run a fecal sample). Then use the results to get treatment from an exotic vet if you need to.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When looking in the literature.. the current standards (Reptile Medicine and Surgery 2nd edition), it is stated that fecal collection standards for amphibians are the same as other taxa.. this means that the ideally fecals should be read within several hours of collection as the ability to detect protozoal issues, and shed cells (blood, lower GI tract) rapidly decreases after that point.. If a fecal has to be shipped to another city, then fixation in polyvinyl alcohol can be tried... If you have to overnight it anywhere or the vet tech can't read it that day, then you may be better off resubmitting the fecal or finding a vet's office close to you who can read it.. As for the often touted requirement to get it read by a experienced "frog" vet, this is not required.. Any competent vet tech is going to be able to determine if there are nematode eggs, or larvae or coccidians or high protozoal numbers.... Now the office may not be willing to prescribe medications but often other vets will take diagnostic results from another vet before prescribing the medications..... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Doing your own fecal floats isnt hard if you have access to a scope


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

pdfCrazy said:


> I recently received a group of Giant Orange Tincs in trade from someone. All adult size. All were on the skinny side, with nose rubs from a screen lid. I've had them for near a month now. There are 5. Appears to be a 4.1 group from toe pads. The only one that appears to be female, was extremely skinny. I've isolated her in a quarantine container for the last few weeks hoping she would put some weight on. I was initially worried she may have just been bullied and not eating. The other four are eating well and have put on a good amount of weight quickly on hydei and Turkish gliders. The female though, is not putting on any weight whatsoever. She is active, and will gobble down all the flies I give her. So I am now worried she may have parasites. I know how to collect fecals, but I am wondering what company, vet clinic, etc is best to ship the samples too? In the meantime, I'd like to start a regimen of treatment. I cant remember the correct med....is it Flagyl? Metrodizanole? Or? And can the flies just be dusted with it? Is there any reason I should wait until I receive the outcome of the fecals? Any tips on this? I've never had to deal with this before and want to get into the habit of fecal-ing all new frogs regardless.
> Thanks


Metronidazole I think is supposed to stimulate appetite (at least anecdotally), so that might be a good one to try. It is also antibiotic, amebicide, and antiprotozoal so whatever your problem this med might help, while others are only anti parasite, or only antibacterial, etc..

I would google/forum search for more info on dosing, and talk to a vet but you can often find it perscription free for fish in pet stores. We have a chain called southern ag that sells it in handy pill form you can break apart... A lot people buy these meds for themselves  But I think even petco/petsmart have it in some form perscription free... do some label reading in the fish isle and you'll probably find something you can use. 

You may need a small scale to measure it out also. I always wondered if mixing it it up like you would for an aquarium of fish, but then just spraying that water onto the frog periodically would be a good way to get a safe and effective dose

You might be able to us a little more concentrated mix since the frog won't actually be swimming in several gallons of meds mixed with water all day every day. 

Something experimental you could try would be buying the medicated "reptile xtra" foods, mixing with water and dropping the green medicated/vitamin enriched water onto the back of the frog. They have an anti parasite blend, and an antibacterial blend, one with pancur in it and one with metro and something else I think. 

*Just wondering if anyone has a reason why that medicated food/water mix idea (maybe with some vitamin powder) wouldn't work or would be dangerous? ED?*

*It is just an idea I had, but is untested.* Seems like dosing precautions would almost take care of themselves since I think it is fairly low concentrate of meds and meant to be used as a food source. Might be good to wash off any residue/food matter from the frogs after the meds have had a little time to soak in.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

1st local vet I contacted wanted 142.00 for 2 fecals done. They said the cost was in having to send them to an amphibian specialist....despite the fact that his office is one of the FEW exotic animals vets in Colorado. Not gonna happen. They're crazy. Next...


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

2nd, 3rd, and 4th wont do a fecal UNLESS they do a office exam at the same time. None have examined PDF's before, and all said they too would be sending the fecal out for exam. Dosnt anyone do the fecals in house? This seems rather strange to me. The last office is willing to do the fecals no office visit, for $54. Still seems a tad high. Waiting for the vet to contact me back so I can ask some specifics.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

pdfCrazy said:


> 2nd, 3rd, and 4th wont do a fecal UNLESS they do a office exam at the same time. None have examined PDF's before, and all said they too would be sending the fecal out for exam. Dosnt anyone do the fecals in house? This seems rather strange to me. The last office is willing to do the fecals no office visit, for $54. Still seems a tad high. Waiting for the vet to contact me back so I can ask some specifics.


My wife works for a vet. she use to do the fecals for me herself.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Of the 3 Vets I've had here in the Dallas area for my pets, they send fecals to labs instead of doing them in the clinic. 

My exotic Veternarian (Dr. Frye) is fine with fecals being mailed overnight, the phase panels were frozen solid and the fecals were cold when he received them.

Honestly, when it involves any animals I own, frogs included I follow the advice of a licensed Veterinarian, Dr. Frye has been working with darts for a long time and is not making a fortune on treating or doing fecals, he does it for the hobby.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Do you have a State Veterinary Lab nearby?

eta: How about this place? http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/vdl/Pages/default.aspx


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Oklahoma State University has a vet program, maybe they'd be willing to accept some mail order fecals to review. Would give there students something to look at they might not otherwise get much of a chance to see  (That's how I'd sell it to them at least)


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pdfCrazy said:


> 2nd, 3rd, and 4th wont do a fecal UNLESS they do a office exam at the same time. None have examined PDF's before, and all said they too would be sending the fecal out for exam. Dosnt anyone do the fecals in house? This seems rather strange to me. The last office is willing to do the fecals no office visit, for $54. Still seems a tad high. Waiting for the vet to contact me back so I can ask some specifics.


You can thank medical malpractice suits for the reason they have to see the frog at the same time... In addition, the standards that are evolving and being passed around by some of the noted leaders in the field of Herpetological medicine (example. Dr. Wright (Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry, Amphibian Chapter in Reptile Medicine and Surgery 2nd edition)) is that treating an asymptomatic frog that has parasites can cause more harm than just letting the frog continue and monitor it's status (see the second reference above)... 

I have to admit, I'm curious as to why they have to have seen a dendrobatid in the past... It's not like dart frog physiology and structure is different from most generic anurans including the ones people dissected in Bio class.... In addition to the physiology and structure being the same, we see the same classes of parasites across taxa (including mammals) for example coccidians including cryptosporidians, flagellates, nematodes, cestodes, and flukes to name a few... so pretty much any vet tech can tell you what is in the fecal... For some reason, there is an enduring myth in this hobby that 
1) the frogs are too sensitive to be taken in for an exam... 
2) that the vet has to have worked with dendrobatids in the past... 

Neither of those is true.. 

And I'm going to mention it again, the standards proposed by two of the leading experts in the field of herpetological medicine (Mader, Wright) explicitly state that mailing a fecal is not the best method to determine if the frog is infected or not... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I have found a local vet (1/2 mile away) that is an exotic specialist, and will do fecals in house rather than ship them out. So, I will be getting him some samples on Monday to test.

Welcome

Dr. Labonde


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## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

It's a good sign when one of the vets profile pictures has a huge python in it =)


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, results are back in, and I've been playing phone tag with the vet clinic. I havnt been able to speak to them yet. A family member answered there call and wrote nothing down whatsoever. Dr. will be speaking to a college vet professor named Terry Cambell, I think out of CSU to get proper med and dosing. Frog weights 3.4 grams right now. Because he/she was house with other identical tincs, they are most likely infected as well, so I will need to medicate them, even though they do not appear to be symptomatic or losign weight. I "think" what the vet told my family was nematodes....but waiting for the calling back? The other healthy tincs from this group are in a beautiful freshly set up tank with some rather rare plants......concerned the parasites may have an external life cycle and are in the soil/plants etc and I may have to break this tank down and sterilize. Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine..!!!!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Nice to see that you finally found someone to read the fecal! keep us updated on the recovery, I for one like to follow a story until the end

Hey, I was just thinking, does anyone know if this Dr. Frye is related to Frederick Frye? Son perhaps? I have some of his books on surgery, disease and veterinary practices.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I believe they are brothers. The vet is well respected. Rich is not.

Spoke to the vet this morning. He verified nematodes in the stool and "various" Torontonians as well. No species on any, but fairly certain not the acanthocephala tourney-headed species. My concern is grandiose lung worms (hypothetically). So, obviously most nematodes have an have a geohelminthic phase in which they live in the substrate. How long is this life cycle? Can they survive and/or reproduce without a host? The vet wants to do oral dosing of fenbendazole (if I spelled that right). Is the tank shot? Where's Ed when you need his scholarly input.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

pdfCrazy said:


> I believe they are brothers. The vet is well respected. Rich is not.
> 
> Spoke to the vet this morning. He verified nematodes in the stool and "various" Torontonians as well. No species on any, but fairly certain not the acanthocephala tourney-headed species. My concern is grandiose lung worms (hypothetically). So, obviously most nematodes have an have a geohelminthic phase in which they live in the substrate. How long is this life cycle? Can they survive and/or reproduce without a host? The vet wants to do oral dosing of fenbendazole (if I spelled that right). Is the tank shot? Where's Ed when you need his scholarly input.


Are your fruit flies Canadian? ...Maybe that is why the frog is crapping out Canadians (Torontonians) 

No seriously what are Torontonian? ...All I got was Canadian stuff from google.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

FroggyKnight said:


> Nice to see that you finally found someone to read the fecal! keep us updated on the recovery, I for one like to follow a story until the end
> 
> Hey, I was just thinking, does anyone know if this Dr. Frye is related to Frederick Frye? Son perhaps? I have some of his books on surgery, disease and veterinary practices.


Rich's brother is Dr. David Frye, not Frederick. Don't know if they are related. 



pdfCrazy said:


> I believe they are brothers. The vet is well respected. Rich is not.
> 
> Spoke to the vet this morning. He verified nematodes in the stool and "various" Torontonians as well. No species on any, but fairly certain not the acanthocephala tourney-headed species. My concern is grandiose lung worms (hypothetically). So, obviously most nematodes have an have a geohelminthic phase in which they live in the substrate. How long is this life cycle? Can they survive and/or reproduce without a host? The vet wants to do oral dosing of fenbendazole (if I spelled that right). Is the tank shot? Where's Ed when you need his scholarly input.


Rich is well respected, whether you like him or not has nothing to do with his accomplishments breeding obligates.
Did you get to ask your vet any of these questions? He should know wether the tank would have to be broken down and sterilized as well as what the proper quarantine and medication practice should be. I would think if there is a geoheminthic phase in which they live in the substrate you're gonna have to break down the tank.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Gotta love auto-spell check on this f-ing kindle. It was supposed to be protozoans. 



Dendro Dave said:


> Are your fruit flies Canadian? ...Maybe that is why the frog is crapping out Canadians (Torontonians)
> 
> No seriously what are Torontonian? ...All I got was Canadian stuff from google.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Rich's brother is Dr. David Frye, not Frederick. Don't know if they are related.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Rich.......is a complicated subject. This isn't the place. Yes, he is very accomplished, but......his personality leaves ALOT to be desired. 

That aside, if the nematodes require a host, or die after that life cycle,simply leaving the tank without any host for them to complete their life cycle will essentially end their life cycle. The vet, despite being any exotics vet,does not see many amphibians. He is copying me a bunch of pages out of several amphibian medical books on the subject. His scope does not have a camera attachment, so I could not get a pic to pass on for review by someone else. He was only able to identify the genus, not species.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

pdfCrazy said:


> Gotta love auto-spell check on this f-ing kindle. It was supposed to be protozoans.


Ya like rusty said, I'd ask him those questions, but make sure he understands it is a living vivarium and not old school carpet and sticks like many herp keepers still use.

I think a lot of vets are used to dealing with those people, using those enclosure types. Doesn't hurt to make sure he has his ducks in a row. 

I had to insist my vet not use full dose vaccine on my Fox because of several reports of it killing foxes, finally he conceded after I showed him some reports. My people Dr actually ends up treating me how I suggest often because I already have an idea what is wrong and have researched it and the treatments, or often because I research stuff he isn't up on. Basically my visits are more like consults. It's a nice surprise for them if you're aren't a D-bag about it, cuz they hate those know it alls that ignore them and can't make legit arguments, but they like talking to people who know what they are talking about  

Basically there is so much to know, 1 vet can never know it all... also maybe ask him what he thought about Metronidazole and/or some kinda topical use of the meds. Oral seems like it will be more stressful to the frog. 

Ultimately you'll wanna follow his advice unless something really contradicts it but never hurts to put a Dr through their paces as long as you are respectful and ask intelligent questions.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Dave, yes, he is aware of the vivarium design. (Good thing i was was watching my text as spell check converted vivarium to vibrator). He referred me to the medical book on amphibians y Dr. Wright.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pdfCrazy said:


> I believe they are brothers. The vet is well respected. Rich is not.
> 
> Spoke to the vet this morning. He verified nematodes in the stool and "various" Torontonians as well. No species on any, but fairly certain not the acanthocephala tourney-headed species. My concern is grandiose lung worms (hypothetically). So, obviously most nematodes have an have a geohelminthic phase in which they live in the substrate. How long is this life cycle? Can they survive and/or reproduce without a host? The vet wants to do oral dosing of fenbendazole (if I spelled that right). Is the tank shot? Where's Ed when you need his scholarly input.


 
Actually, there are a number of nematode parasites that are directly infectious and do not require a free living stage or even larva to hatch in the substrate... they can hatch in the digestive tract and infect the frog from there... 

Generic free living protozoans are generally not an issue unless there is a severe overgrowth of them. 

If they are a nematode that has a free living phase (like Rhabdiform nematodes) then they can persist in the enclosure without a host as long as conditions are favorable for their survivial.... potentially for years. These nematodes are also able to build into super infections. 
Measured oral dosing of fenbendazole is acceptable practice as that will provide the safe effective dosage of the frogs )and frogs are not that hard to restrain and tube if there are two people doing it). I would suggest steering away from dusting flies with fenbendazole as this can easily lead to over/under dosing of the frogs. You can also suggest topical applications of ivermectin as this will also eliminate a number of parasitic worms. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pdfCrazy said:


> concerned the parasites may have an external life cycle and are in the soil/plants etc and I may have to break this tank down and sterilize. Quarantine, quarantine, quarantine..!!!!


In general, with respect to nematode infections... you will need to break down and disinfect the enclosure. 
Even if they are asymptomatic and/or non-shedding, the other frogs are most likely infected and should also be treated unless your vet has other ideas. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Ed,thanks for the input. I did read several other similar threads on the subject you've contributed to. Do you know if the Tinc can be concurrently medicated with the fenbendazole and ivermectin, or is one after the other best? Are the plants salvageable by a sanitation method like bleach? There's a # of rare ferns antivirus and others in there. And is bleach the best method on the tank as well?


P.s. what is shedding vs. Non-shedding? Are we talking the frog, or the nematodes/eggs/ova


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pdfCrazy said:


> Ed,thanks for the input. I did read several other similar threads on the subject you've contributed to. Do you know if the Tinc can be concurrently medicated with the fenbendazole and ivermectin, or is one after the other best?


It depends on your vet. I've generally used ivermectin in preference to fenbendazole. 



pdfCrazy said:


> Are the plants salvageable by a sanitation method like bleach? There's a # of rare ferns antivirus and others in there.


They are only salvageable if you can be sure that the bleach is going to be able to contact all surfaces of the plant. If there are areas where the disinfectant can't readily penetrate (for example, furry or fuzzy rhizomes/stems/leaves) then they can't be salvaged in that manner. The only option is to dip them, and then pot and grow them out in another location. In this case, cuttings of stems/rhizomes etc, can be made from areas where they do not touch the substrate and isn't kept wet enough for it to encourage nematodes to colonize it. 



pdfCrazy said:


> And is bleach the best method on the tank as well?


Once all organics have been removed from the tank, then yes bleach is the preferred disinfectant. Keep in mind that the solution has to be able to contact all areas of the tank. 




pdfCrazy said:


> P.s. what is shedding vs. Non-shedding? Are we talking the frog, or the nematodes/eggs/ova


Shedding means nematode eggs or larvae are detected in the fecal. It is well established that a healthy animal may not shed eggs or larvae for weeks or even months... With some things like coccidians, the coccidian may never be seen in the fecals and diagnosis can be due to a process of elimination. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

pdfcrazy, IMO it's more difficult to fully clean a tank than we think and not worth the risk. 

Examples: 

I had a tank with nemerteans. I broke it down, washed and bleached the tank (scrubbed with a brush, let it soak for days, let it try completely out), bleached the plants, set it back up and nermerteans were back. 

This weekend, I cleaned out a tank with snails, bleached the plants, set it back up. This morning I saw my first snail in the tank.

I think stuff hides in the nooks and crannies that we really can't get at: under small breaks in the silicone, under the rim, deep inside the wrinkles on a plant. When it's snails and nemerteans, it's a PITA for them to come back. If it's dangerous parasites, that's a whole different story.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

frogface said:


> pdfcrazy, IMO it's more difficult to fully clean a tank than we think and not worth the risk.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> ...


My guess would be the plants are your infection point, or possibly hardscape materials. I don't know where else that stuff could hide in an empty aquarium filled with bleach/soap water. On the other hand if you do not soak plants long enough, remove all the soil from the roots (often very difficult to do), and get into all those nooks/crannies where leaves join the stem, or brom axils etc... then very possible something surivives and makes it back into the viv. Also very easy to forget to thoroughly wash your hands/forearms and then reach into another viv and spread something. Heck I had a couple slugs stick to me reaching into a viv just the other day.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> My guess would be the plants are your infection point, or possibly hardscape materials. I don't know where else that stuff could hide in an empty aquarium filled with bleach/soap water. On the other hand if you do not soak plants long enough, remove all the soil from the roots (often very difficult to do), and get into all those nooks/crannies where leaves join the stem, or brom axils etc... then very possible something surivives and makes it back into the viv. Also very easy to forget to thoroughly wash your hands/forearms and then reach into another viv and spread something. Heck I had a couple slugs stick to me reaching into a viv just the other day.


Possibly it was the plants. This tank didn't have any hard scaping and was completely empty of everything when I cleaned it. However, it did have silicone that had some gaps. Hmm not sure how to explain. Silicone is still intact but the edges had come up in some places. Does that make sense? Also there is the small gap around the rim on the inside. I scrubbed in there with a brush but does a brush get all the way in there? When I pulled the rim off of another tank, I found that the silicone was not uniform all the way around, so there were pockets of air under the rim. Would this be a place for parasites and other nasties to hide? Dunno.

I don't do the reaching into other tanks without washing thing since I got really sick from someone's frogs. That's another story though


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

frogface said:


> Possibly it was the plants. This tank didn't have any hard scaping and was completely empty of everything when I cleaned it. However, it did have silicone that had some gaps. Hmm not sure how to explain. Silicone is still intact but the edges had come up in some places. Does that make sense? Also there is the small gap around the rim on the inside. I scrubbed in there with a brush but does a brush get all the way in there? When I pulled the rim off of another tank, I found that the silicone was not uniform all the way around, so there were pockets of air under the rim. Would this be a place for parasites and other nasties to hide? Dunno.
> 
> I don't do the reaching into other tanks without washing thing since I got really sick from someone's frogs. That's another story though


Ya that is possible... I'd think the bleach water woulda seeped in... but maybe something got into an air pocket, and didn't get a high enough dose of cleaning agents or something.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think in normal tank swapping situations, a clean out and sanitize is probably fine. But, in a tank with a known problem, I'm not so comfortable. I have some frogs that were sick (they're better now! I am so lucky to have an awesome local exotic vet who specialized in reptiles and amphibians). They had their original tank, and then a 10g hospital tank. I didn't even try to clean them out. I emptied the innards into double trash bags, wrapped the tanks in plastic and took it all directly to the landfill. I knew I would never use those tanks again, no matter how clean I thought I got them.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

See, quite a few of my tanks, and the ones the Tincs are in, are ALL glass custopm tanks. They are not converted aquariums, so no plastic lip for the uglies to hide in. I think that in the case of all the nasties being carried over after a sterilization, there are two mistakes going on.

#1 When you STERILIZE a tank, think scorched earth type cleaning. "IF" I decide to break this tank down (and a nemertean tank), I will not be using 10% or even %15 percent bleach water. Try 50/50. My unsderstanding is, bleach, over a short period of time, evaporates %100. Also, you need longer exposure than slosh the water around scrub and rinse. I intend to soak each side of the tank by turning it over and over for an hour or two each side.

#2 When it comes to an infected tank, and you want as close to %100 pathogen removal as possible, really, there is NO sterilizing of the plants. Any method that will effectively sterilize the plants will also kill them. With at least 3 very rare species I have in these tanks, I will replant them after sterilizign them in a plant only temp tank, and see if at least (the nemertean's are gone). With the Nematodes, I'm really wondering about a panacur/fenbendazole bath, maybe twice. I think Panacure is relatively cheap, but not sure if its cheap enough I can get enough to soak a few plants. If it comes down to it, I will NEEM the plants and let the product degrade for 6 months before I replant the plants.


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