# Best Ground Cover



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Man, I'm sick of my green moss turning brown/black. What are the rest of you guys using as ground cover and how do you keep it looking great (i.e. changing leaf litter X times a year, using X brand lights for X type of moss, using X brand green spray paint, etc.)?


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

do you have a photo of your setups? What kind of lighting are you using? Type of moss?

Justin


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

I use cheap walmart grow lights on for 12 hours. On some setups the moss is right on LECA, and on another it is right on a Peat Brick/orchid mix substrate. I seem to get the best green color on black jungle moss right on top of LECA in tank that gets sprayed nearly everyday by hand. Here is a pic of that moss that has been green since September:









Also, my moss that I got from my uncle's place is nice looking and has stayed green since July. Here is a pic showing that moss:









P.S. what am I doing wrong with the img thing?


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2004)

You were missing the http tag


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

*Leaf Litter all the way!*

I've had kinda of half and half success with tropical moss (native mosses go dormant so they don't do as well year around). I've had some tanks (mostly froglet tanks) that have gone wild with the stuff. Other tanks its rotted right off. I kinda gave up and just did sphagnum moss and leaf litter for all and found more benifits with leaf litter that completely overrode any reason I had for having moss.

I love having springtails in my tanks, espeically in tanks where froglets are being raised or are likely to occur. I've had some luck with them in mossed tanks, but they go NUTS in leaf litter (especially if you treat the froglet tank as a culture).

Makes more nervous frogs and froglets (like those slow to color up like tricolor) a bit bolder. These guys know they have a hiding place a hop away and can come out a bit more than in a bare tank which they'd be nervous in anyways. Less stressed froglets grow faster and do better.

Many frogs prefer to lay eggs in leaf litter... well I guess that could be a good thing or a bad thing. It can make it hell to find eggs, but if you have water sources you can usually get most of the tads, then again you have a great mini springtail population in there so you don't need to worry about the random froglet that slips by. :lol: 

After spending a month traveling across costa rica and hitting every main ecosystem PDFs are found in there, I have yet to see one that qualifies as a moss covered garden like our tanks. The typical ground cover was leaf litter. The only moss covered ecosystem I came across was tree branches (mostly in cloud forests) in a speck of sunlight.

They are also just less work lol. I just stick a handful of new leaves in when the old ones start to break down and no longer act as hiding places. This varies by what type of leaf you use.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I have great success with florida moss, i am guessing sheetmoss. It grows and looks great in all my vivs. I also love java because it makes such a thick carpet. I realy want to do a combo of both leaf litter and moss in my next viv, i have seen it done and it looks more like how moss grows in patches then in large carpets. 

Ryan


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## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

I was a moss person before, but I used leaf litter in my newest tank and I am really happy with the results. I get messy when I feed dusted fruit flies and tend to kill my moss. I was taking my son for a walk and found prefect leaves for leaf litter, I amnot sure what the tree is, I think it is a willow tree of some kind. The leaves are only 1.5-2.5" and long and narrow. I will have to take some pictures of the new tank. Plus my frogs seem to like hiding in the leaf litter.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

any pics of leaf litter in a tank?


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2004)




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## joshua_delancey69 (Mar 1, 2004)

I use live spagnum I have a live source close to my home.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

I'm a big fan of Java Moss. It grows rampantly under sufficient light, will throw spores to cover all areas, and you can sterilize clumps in bleach/water mixture to keep from spreading who knows what that can come in on leaf litter or collected moss.

In different areas it will take on different forms, all dependent on humidity and moisture levels. Just my thoughts.


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

We use leaf litter in most of our tanks now. You don't ever have to change the leaves. They break down and then you just add more. It depends on what kind of leaves you use, but they should last at least 6 months.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

sounds like leaf litter is the way to go. any leaves that work the best, or you should stay away from? I'd be a tad nervous with leaf litter since I know some woods can be toxic to amphibians.


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

Homer said:


> I'm a big fan of Java Moss. It grows rampantly under sufficient light, will throw spores to cover all areas, and you can sterilize clumps in bleach/water mixture to keep from spreading who knows what that can come in on leaf litter or collected moss.
> 
> In different areas it will take on different forms, all dependent on humidity and moisture levels. Just my thoughts.


what exactly is java moss? and bleaching prevents spreading? can you grow small clumps of it in random spots?


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## holidayhanson (Apr 25, 2007)

iridebmx said:


> what exactly is java moss? and bleaching prevents spreading? can you grow small clumps of it in random spots?



I think he meant to say you can treat your java moss from one tank before replanting it into another tank. It will prevent spreading germs...it wont stop java moss from spreading...java moss spreads and spreads and spreads.

RICCIA RICCIA RICCIA!!! 

I have also found great luck with riccia flautians. It is not technically a moss but sure looks like moss to me. It grows a little more compact than java. It is also an aquatic plant you can pick up on ebay. People charge a lot for a golf ball size clump but within a few months you will have more riccia than you know what to do with. It likes to stay moist and thrives off daily misting and direct light.


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

I also use leaf litter in half my tank. In the other side I use java moss and I love them both. The Java moss works for me when it has a really good water source. It grows really fast next to my river and gets so over grown I have to pick it and move it to a new spot. Good luck!


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i chose leaf litter. i would second the ricia etc if the viv had a lot of moist areas. kristy


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I have 3 or more types growing. The spores just make it into the tanks and it takes 6-9 months for it to grow in. I sometimes transfer one piece of coco chip to another tank. Part of the problem is soft vs. hard plants. Same thing happens w/ broms. It`s very different between outside and inside. Most of my mosses were never sheets. Sheets grown somewhere else are going to acclimate or die. WHen they die there is still spores in there. Under good light and distilled water they will overtake the tank. Mine are growing right up the sides w/ no substrate. Every tank I have is in some stage of filling in w/ java, tropical or local mosses, very green and vibrant, almost flourescent on one type.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Leaf Litter, its the most natural choice. If you research where most of these frogs originate from there isn't enough sunlight on the forest floor to sustain most species of moss. Also if you look at images of the rain forest you'll see the ground covered with leaf litter. 

Besides this the leaf litter acts as coverage and hiding spots for the frogs, nutirents for the plants and potentially egg laying sites for some species.

I do use java moss, riccia and christmas moss on the driftwood and am going to try to get it to grow on the tree fern panels I use as my background.


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

Riccia is fantastic but hard to find at times. Once established the coloration and density is by far a better choice than Java because of the uncontrollability of Java moss. 
I Vote Riccia.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm going to say sheet moss. The kind I use is grown in greenhouses in NC and shipped wet to CT. 

It grows fast on horizontal ground - covers great - isn't expensive - and looks sweet once it's acclimated. 










Sheet moss, Leaf litter, and a few smoother rocks makes for a really nice cover imo.

edit: "Wild" sheet moss or live caught american moss can be tricky - and I wouldn't at all suggest it. Bugs love living in it - and fungus gnats love it too. If you get it from the right place (pesticide-free greenhouse grown) - it's imo the best. If not - it can cause problems.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you have some room you can easily grow a moss that does well in terraria. Simply mix peat moss with a silica sand in a 50/50 mixture by volume. Place into shallow pots, wet throughly and keep moist and humid (I've grown it in ten gallon tanks that contained a 1/4-1/4 inch of water and were had a glass lid that covered 3/4 of the top of the tank) at all times and place in bright indirect light (about 10 inches under a couple of T-12 flourescent lights is usually sufficient). In about three months, the pots should be covered with a moss. You can then take plugs from this moss and plant it into the tank and as long as it stays moist and has some bright indirect lighting it will grow. 

That said, I pretty much just use leaf litter in my tanks but I often have mosses take off in them as well. 

Ed


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

ggazonas said:


> Leaf Litter, its the most natural choice. If you research where most of these frogs originate from there isn't enough sunlight on the forest floor to sustain most species of moss. Also if you look at images of the rain forest you'll see the ground covered with leaf litter.


this is pretty much how my vivs are...not alot of light gets to the bottom and i have a hard time getting anything to grow there. its not completely dark but pretty shadded


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Nothing but leaf litter here... Ill use moss on wood or backgrounds, but a nice thick layer of leaf litter is the best choice I think. Even terribilis hide and use it, not just the little guys. I just pile more leaves on top of it when the isopods eat it and it degrades.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

i did the moss thing for a while and after using leaf litter for the past couple of years. im hooked, leaf litter all the way now. springs do so good with an old thick layer of litter.

a fresh 20 vert just setup today still needs some fig and others, house for 2.1 quins









20 gal vert for 1.2.1 bastis









10 gal vert 1.1 intermedius









12x12x18 exo for 1.1 cayos









and 16 gal vert for 2.2 imitators


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

Well I use ED's Fly Meat substrate!
(I couldn't resist) I wait until I have a good carpet of creeping fig and java moss down before I add frogs though.


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## jackxc925 (Dec 22, 2007)

i choose leaf litter for its looks and the fact that it makes frogs bolder


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Leaf litter is great but I do not care for it in a small tank or with larger frogs. I think riccia is one of the better mosses as it seems to grow very well in a frog tank.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

kyle1745 said:


> Leaf litter is great but I do not care for it in a small tank or with larger frogs. I think riccia is one of the better mosses as it seems to grow very well in a frog tank.


Just wondering why not with larger frogs? My terribs (all 16 of them) use the leaf litter all the time. Is it not the same with tincs?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

In my experience and this maybe just be my luck leaf litter in a smaller tank with larger frogs just breaks down fast. With smaller frogs it seems to last a long time. Tank size, misting methods and etc all come into play here. I also have issues with sphagnum as it acts more as a filter than allowing the waste and etc to drain. By no means am I denouncing leaf litter as it is great in most cases.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Most of my tincs hang out in the driftwood crevices and sit on top of the leaf litter. The main reason I like leaf litter is because it keeps the substrate off the frogs and keeps them cleaner. 

My leucs hide out in the drift wood crevices, tuck away in brom leaves or sleep in film canisters. They ignore the leaf litter.

The vents hang out in the bottom brom leaves but do explore the leaf litter for little yummies.

The Terribilis hang out under the leaf litter some and in the coco huts some. 

Even though the majority of the frogs don't use their leaf litter to hide, I still like it and prefer to use it. 
Candy


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## Deathkitten (Oct 20, 2008)

So do you guys just go outside, find some cool-looking leaves, boil them, and throw them in? Nothing special?


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I heat mine. 350F for 20min...watching not to 'burn' them. 

Starting with dried Autumn leaves.....prefer White Oak here in NH

S


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

personally i think your ground cover will be determine by how light reaches the bottom of yoru tank, in tanks where a lot of lights gets to the bottom i use Riccia or Pilea (tiny tears), oak leaf, but in others where there is little light then leaf litter is best used.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Julio said:


> personally i think your ground cover will be determine by how light reaches the bottom of yoru tank, in tanks where a lot of lights gets to the bottom i use Riccia or Pilea (tiny tears), oak leaf, but in others where there is little light then leaf litter is best used.


I Tend to do the same in a way. I use pilea and oakleaf as well as bolivian jew plant and creeping ficus as ground cover in most of my vivs along with the leaf litter. I feel you can't have too much cover for the frogs. Plus the leaves act as nutrients for the plants as they decay.


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## Poison-Dart-Fart (Sep 30, 2005)

i voted leaf litter a couple of weeks ago i asked cause i cant get moss started. and plus in nature the ground cover is leafs. I couldn't be happier with it. my vents love it to, even though they hide in it all day and run to it when i walk in, or try to take pics of them. I found out if u want some moss just put in a small patch of frog moss "and i know it dies after a while" but it still enhances the tanks great.


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## onefstsnake (Jul 31, 2008)

Ive been using local spike moss in my 75G FBT tank for a while now.
I use slighly acidic water to mist that tank. Really makes the moss grow quick. Its forming nice thick carpets of super fine moss. I use 2-24w t8 bulbs. One is 5500k and the other is 6500k.

Now in my PDF tank I ended up using leaf litter, but it seems to decompose rather quickly.
I do have some red and green algae growing in my waterfall as well as some java moss thats doing well. Im using the 3 bulb exoterra hood with 1 2.0 bulb and 2 5.0 bulbs, all CF type.

Either option creates completely different looks for the tank. I like the moss better simply because it looks a little nicer IMO.


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## allyn (Oct 6, 2008)

Riccia should be an option on the poll as it makes great ground cover


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## Faceless (Sep 11, 2008)

I think you should add Riccia
into the poll... i have all kinds
of mosses going for the past 3 months to 
see what i like best (Pillow, Java, Riccia, local etc..)

Riccia is spanking all the others !


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## MarcNem (Dec 13, 2008)

I think leaf litter makes a more suitable ground cover. It is more natural. Like other have said, the floor of the South American rainforest is covered with leaves. Most moss grows on either on fallen trees or stumps or some other object on the ground, not necessarily the ground itself. I like my tanks to have several layers. I like for the floor to be covered with leaves, and the branches, stumps or drift wood covered with moss. Basically a blend of the two. I really try to replicate the frogs natural environment.


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## morselchip (Jul 17, 2008)

Great pic! 
i use leaf litter- my frogs really seem to enjoy it. My corn snake loves it too! 
I feel a little better if I let my humidity drop to around 80% with the leaf litter too, since the frogs can always get down under the leaves and find a wetter, cooler spot. I'm sure at times the visual barrier will prove to be important too- although most viv's have plenty of barriers built into the design, not having a frog stuck hiding up high makes me feel alot better about their well being.


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

I started with some riccia and some moss that was flourishing in a tropical observatory. The riccia has the upper hand in slightly lower light and very wet areas. The other moss dominates everywhere else.

There is also leaf litter in the very heavily shaded areas.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

what is leaf litter?


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## morselchip (Jul 17, 2008)

Leaf litter is just a covering of leaves on the bottom of the vivarium. Best done a few inches deep, the frogs can hide among the leaves like they do in the wild. If you search, you will probably find plenty of threads about finding and sterilizing appropriate leaves for your frogs.


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