# Not another Pumilo build!!



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Summersi time! I'm using another one of those cracked, 40 gallon Euro vivs I repaired for this. I'm going back to clay for this one and it might remain hand misted because Summersi like it a little drier. It's still been drilled for a mister and what I might do is put an inline valve on this one so I can take it out of the misting loop easily. What I'm picturing for this one is a washed out, old bank of a stream bed, all dried up now. The (old) water flow has washed away much of the dirt, leaving a bunch of exposed roots. The idea came from Tuckinrim8's viv http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/75267-54gal-bowfront-build.html I'm not a great stuff artist though and my rough interpretation should be very different in the end. I'm better with natural materials.
I am going to skip a lot of the details that were already covered in my other threads. You can get all the details for things like drains, fans, repair of the crack, clay recipe, and all that stuff in this build. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76581-pumilos-75-corner-viv.html If you still don't see it, questions are always welcome. 
Lets start with a shot of the drain and a back piece of eggcrate siliconed to the back of the viv. It will be a support for more eggcrate.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

rock on! cant wait to see the transformation!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

More eggcrate as a partial false bottom, loosly linked with tie wraps to 2 other pieces. This forms the eroded bank and the top of the bank. I'll need to make the bank easy enough to climb that my Summersi can feel comfortable using both upper and lower levels of ground as they are more of a terrestrial thumbnail.
This assembly was a tight fit so I'll have to do my screen a little different this time. I usually wrap the whole thing like a present but that's not going to fly this time. We'll come back to that tomorrow.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

And here is a little peek at what I'm trying for. I'm using some select pieces of ghost wood for the root work and some cork bark extending from it to be some dead tree trunks.
The vision here is that the trees have died and the bark is rotted away and washed off by the water. We will be taking scraps of cork bark and attaching them to the ghost wood to look like pieces that are still holding on.
I think that's about as far as we are getting tonight, friends!


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## drutt (Oct 4, 2011)

Nice roots.... good idea attaching cork on the wood. Looks really nice. I will copy that.


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## Azriel (Jun 15, 2011)

This is going to be awesome! I can't wait to see how it turns out.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

The last ones were sweet will keep an eye on this one as well....


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

your building them as fast as i am..... okay maybe not, but still impressive


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

Wow Doug, this is gonna be awesome! Subscribed for sure... Why you gotta put my build to shame! haha I am loving the placement of your wood pieces as it looks just like the effect you are going for.. 

Chris


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Tuckinrim8 said:


> Wow Doug, this is gonna be awesome! Subscribed for sure... Why you gotta put my build to shame! haha I am loving the placement of your wood pieces as it looks just like the effect you are going for..
> 
> Chris


Thanks everyone! Chris, nothings going to put yours to shame. I'll NEVER be able to do what you do with Great Stuff.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I picked up my Summersi only a few days before Christmas. Christmas morning my wife had this under the tree for me! It's a watercolor she did herself.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi Doug,

If you haven't figured out how you are going to finish your false bottom, may I make a suggestion. Lay your screen flat and then use rolled Sodium Bentonite like plumbers putty to seal the screen to the side of the tank. I has worked pretty well for me so far and it doesn't look bad.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

phender said:


> Hi Doug,
> 
> If you haven't figured out how you are going to finish your false bottom, may I make a suggestion. Lay your screen flat and then use rolled Sodium Bentonite like plumbers putty to seal the screen to the side of the tank. I has worked pretty well for me so far and it doesn't look bad.


Thanks Phender, I was going to do either that, or silicone it in place.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here are some of the cork bark and ghost wood assemblies.
For most of the ghost wood / cork bark combos, I glued them together with Gorilla glue. I filled in the hollow cork bark with great stuff to keep the froggies from spending all their time inside.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I attached the screen as a single layer, on top of the eggcrate using nylon tie wraps. I opted to go with a bead of silicone around the edges to keep the Turface from leaking down into the bottom. The Turface has been placed into the bottom area, but not in the top yet. 
Next, the root work was attached in. I used GE silicone 1 to attach the cork bark ends to the glass. You can see where I built up a small ledge on top of the bank to help hold back the upper layers of substrate and leaf litter.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I sliced the back off of a piece of cork bark tube to give it a flat mounting surface and added it to the upper, back wall as a tree. I've combined it with a little bit of ghost wood to give it some dead branches.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I added one more cork tree to the back and have begun "mudding" the viv.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Progressing nicely. I've been increasing the thickness and adding some contours, trying to follow the root structure with the contours. You can see over on the left where I've taken some of the scraps that were removed frog the back side of the ghost wood branches, and added them back into the clay wall. It's getting difficult to get my hands back in between the branches, but I figured that the contours were going to look better if I did the mudding after the roots were installed.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Bottom level is close to done. Ran out of clay! Going to have to mix up another batch before I can finish the top.


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## kate801 (Jul 7, 2011)

Awesome work Doug! Can't wait to see your Summersi in there!


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Are you going to leave the top level open like that? That would look pretty cool and gives the look of aerial roots growing into a dirt bank. Leaves more room for planting too. Either way you go with it though, it looks awesome! Great idea shoving the branches into cork tubes!

Josh


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

josh_r said:


> Are you going to leave the top level open like that? That would look pretty cool and gives the look of aerial roots growing into a dirt bank. Leaves more room for planting too. Either way you go with it though, it looks awesome! Great idea shoving the branches into cork tubes!
> 
> Josh


From post 19: "Bottom level is close to done. Ran out of clay! Going to have to mix up another batch before I can finish the top."


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

josh_r said:


> Are you going to leave the top level open like that? That would look pretty cool and gives the look of aerial roots growing into a dirt bank. Leaves more room for planting too. Either way you go with it though, it looks awesome! Great idea shoving the branches into cork tubes!
> 
> Josh


Thanks Josh, I filled in the top with clay. I plan on running a lot of vines up and down the upper walls.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

A few pieces of bark glued back in here and there to help accentuate the weathering bark effect.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

R1ch13 said:


> From post 19: "Bottom level is close to done. Ran out of clay! Going to have to mix up another batch before I can finish the top."


I actually read this post but all I caught was "Bottom level is close to done. Ran out of clay!" woops! My bad! I'm flawed, i'm only human!

Nice build though Doug! Will look pretty cool planted up!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I hope so! I got some wicked new ferns in from Jason DeSantes and I have still been holding back some of the neat stuff I got from Manuran and Bonnie Lorraine.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Pumilo said:


> I hope so! I got some wicked new ferns in from Jason DeSantes and I have still been holding back some of the neat stuff I got from Manuran and Bonnie Lorraine.


Ooooh oooh!!! I'd love to know what ya got!!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here's the ferns from Jason. I've fallen in love with Micrograma ferns.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Very nice ferns Doug! You should scrape some of those spores off that lecanopteris and grow some from spore!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I might have to wait for new growth to try that. I'm not sure if the spore could survive the bleach dip it's already been through.
By the way, the plants from Manuran, Bonnie Lorraine, and Davescrews have been showing up in my recent builds.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76581-pumilos-75-corner-viv.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/77509-pumilos-reticulata-viv.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/78336-pumilos-benedicta-rebuild.html


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## bratyboy2 (Jan 29, 2010)

Subscribed....but what does the clay do for the tank and its occupants?


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## Azriel (Jun 15, 2011)

The weathering bark effect with the small pieces glued on looks really good!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

bratyboy2 said:


> Subscribed....but what does the clay do for the tank and its occupants?


That depends on how you made the clay. Normally, it might simply serve as a decorative background. It can be "friendly" towards mosses, allowing them to establish easily. Clay is also friendly towards microfauna.
In my recipe, however, I add calcium to the mix. This can provide an additional source of calcium picked up through bugs and also through direct contact with the frogs skin.
Recipe for clay walls here.
3 Quarts RedArt powdered clay
1/2 Quart Sodium Bentonite powdered clay
1/2 Quart Calcium Bentonite powdered clay
3/4 Quart Sphagnum moss run through a blender
1/2 Quart Fine Aragonite Sand
1/4 to 1/2 cup Calcium Carbonate
Mix with water to proper consistancy. Keeping a firmer, dryer mix will result in less cracking.
This viv will also be using a calcium enhanced clay substrate. More information on clay substrates can be found in the following threads. Plus, the first thread contains my recipe. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63732-clay-substrate-how.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/22990-ultimate-clay-based-substrate-thread.html


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## soldier (Sep 7, 2011)

So how would I go about getting some of those awesome micrograma been looking for some! I see Jason but how would I get ahold of him? The build looks great by the way! Like the root structure!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

soldier said:


> So how would I go about getting some of those awesome micrograma been looking for some! I see Jason but how would I get ahold of him? The build looks great by the way! Like the root structure!


Jason runs Tropical Plantz Tropical Plantz :: Ferns :: Epiphytic Ferns :: Microgramma Reptans Large
Bonnie Lorraine also offers some Micrograma from time to time. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members/bonnielorraine.html
Here are a couple I got from her--also an unidentified similar one. I acquired a large variety of smaller cuttings from her in a trade.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

soldier said:


> So how would I go about getting some of those awesome micrograma been looking for some! I see Jason but how would I get ahold of him? The build looks great by the way! Like the root structure!


I got this similar looking species from Davescrews.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Yes, it's been a while. I wanted to let the clay wall set up. I've been letting it partially dry a little at a time. Of course that causes cracking that has to be repaired but should make for a denser, longer lasting wall in the end, so I hope!

The rails for the doors have been removed because the simply don't hold on well enough. Silicone does not bond well to plastic and I wanted the sand the backs of them with coarse sandpaper. They scratches and grooves allow the silicone to stick much better. I also find that a clear silicone bonds much better than the black that was used. At the same time we have built the silicone door seal to keep the bugs in the viv. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/77533-fly-proofing-euro-sliding-door-viv.html

I nice little snowstorm here in Colorado has us snowed in. I couldn't think of anything better to do that to finish this bad boy off! I've added the turface and my clay substrate recipe. Viv has been seeded with dwarf purple isopods, hundreds of dwarf white isopods, pink springtails, giant black tomocerus springtails, and hundreds to thousands of white temperate springtails. Planting is complete!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

And the people say, "Who cares?! Show us the frogs!!"
Fine. Take it away Frogboy!


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

Okay I got some good shots of the release. Hope you like them! 

"Thinking about it"


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

And they're off!


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## bratyboy2 (Jan 29, 2010)

AWESOME! 

what is the plant thats lime green and spade leafed in this picture?


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## Azriel (Jun 15, 2011)

It looks great Doug, and those are some nice frogs too!


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

"Don't you have anything better to do?"


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

I played with the delayed flash on the middle picture and then the last picture is normal.


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

That's it for now. Sometimes when we release frogs they'll be all over the viv the next day, exploring. If they go exploring I'll get some more shots.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

bratyboy2 said:


> AWESOME!
> 
> what is the plant thats lime green and spade leafed in this picture?


I got that from Jason. Tropical Plantz :: Ferns :: Epiphytic Ferns :: Lecanopteris Sinuosa


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Azriel said:


> It looks great Doug, and those are some nice frogs too!


Thanks Jennie.


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## sethshaun (Jun 13, 2009)

Very creative tank design! Thank you for showing us. Sooper cool frogs. I learn a lot from your methods. 


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

I see the misting head in the center, but what is the object in the top left? A fan? Pipe leading into it? Looks great though! Love the plants! Nice exotic look.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Erikb3113 said:


> I see the misting head in the center, but what is the object in the top left? A fan? Pipe leading into it? Looks great though! Love the plants! Nice exotic look.


Yes, that's a fan. Details of the fans I build can be found towards the end of this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76581-pumilos-75-corner-viv.html


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

Funny i was just coming back to tell you NM I just read your 75 gal corner build ...funny stuff.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Awesome work Doug. Very original idea, executed well. Also, thanks for not using kitty litter for your clay background!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Mitch said:


> Awesome work Doug. Very original idea, executed well. Also, thanks for not using kitty litter for your clay background!


I was going to, but someone told me cats crap in it!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Some pics of me hard at work, giving our Summersi some calcium. (wiping the sweat from my brow)


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Just a frog pic.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

A shot showing the two levels of the viv a little better. Though they are a terrestrial frog, they are having no problems with scaling the wood and walls to explore the upper level.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi Doug,

I noticed that your clay mixture has a high percentage of Redart clay. When I put high amounts of Laterite clay in my mix it gets very messy. Frogs track the clay all over the tank on to plants, glass, etc. Does the Redart stay firmer and hold up better?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

phender said:


> Hi Doug,
> 
> I noticed that your clay mixture has a high percentage of Redart clay. When I put high amounts of Laterite clay in my mix it gets very messy. Frogs track the clay all over the tank on to plants, glass, etc. Does the Redart stay firmer and hold up better?


I have not worked with laterite myself as The Ultimate Clay-based substrate thread testing said it did not hold up well. 


Corpus Callosum said:


> I had similar (poor) results with the laterite I tested. The fluorite is holding up well, but I don't like it enough to use it again. I have some of Matt's recipe made that I'm testing, but would like to try Brent's recipe as well.





Dendrobait said:


> Laterite is mined from rainforest type soil(often after the land has been clearcut)...and dissolves underwater.





Corpus Callosum said:


> I was told fluorite is the one that's fired and even though laterite is sold in a granular form for aquarists it isn't fired and will not hold it's form once wet. Not to doubt the above info, just trying to get to the bottom of what I was told and where the misinformation lies.





gary1218 said:


> If I remember Brent's post correctly he mixes up the redart clay powder with water as if you were going to use it to throw a clay pot. Then he lays it out as a 1/4" slab to completely dry out. Then he smashes it into smaller pieces to mix into his substrate. I don't think he has a problem with it then turning into glop in the bottom of the tank.
> 
> Hopefully Brent will pick up on this post and give us his input.


My recipes are not re-inventing the wheel. I found that others research had shown the Red Art heavy substrates and walls seemed to be holding up the best so that is the direction I went. My recipe was heavily inspired by Brent Brocks "Dirty Old Man Performance Substrate" 


bbrock said:


> *Dirty Old Man Performance Substrate*
> 
> _Mix 2-3 parts Redart clay with 1 part local soil (I collect mine from under conifers to get a good mycorrhizal inoculation) [edit: beware of chytrid! Use sterile topsoil if in doubt]. Add just enough sharp sand to be able to tell it is there. Add about 1/4 to 1/2 cup hydrated lime to 2 gallons of soil mix. Mix it all up. A cement mixer would be ideal but I use a paint mixer attached to a drill. Slowly add water while stirring until the mix is evenly damp and clumps up into pea sized and smaller aggregates. Spread the mix out in the sun on a piece of burlap or similar and let it dry. Dilute some acrylic mortar fortifier about 10:1 with water (so it is really thin and diluted). Spray down the dried mix with the solution to thoroughly dampen it. Let it dry and repeat the spraying. Let it dry again. Sprinkle a little more lime over the mix and stir it in. It is ready to use. If you want to get really picky, sieve the mix through a 1/4" mesh. I didn't and just broke up the largest chunks by pinching them._


In my own research I did my current formula a few different ways. The first several recipes were heavily based in Bentonite clays. These ones quickly turned to useless mush in a side by side comparison with my current red art formula. All other aspects of the formula were the same except for the replacement of red art with bentonite. I do feel that the red art is crucial to longevity in a clay mix, be it substrate or wall. I do NOT get excessive tracking over the plants and glass. If I give it time to set up, and I don't over mist, I find it stays pretty firm and holds up nicely.
So while I haven't personally tried laterite, I think that you would be happy with swapping out the laterite in favor of red art.


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## NickJR (Jul 28, 2011)

very very nice plants! im jealous!!!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> I have not worked with laterite myself as The Ultimate Clay-based substrate thread testing said it did not hold up well.
> .............Edit.........
> So while I haven't personally tried laterite, I think that you would be happy with swapping out the laterite in favor of red art.


Thanks, guess I should have read a little more first. My laterite background was only in a temporary tank. When I took it out it was still holding its shape, but was very messy. The one I just made is mostly sodium bentonite with a little laterite for color, some calcium carbonate and a peat moss covering. Seems to be OK so far, but it sounds like I need to get some redart before I do another tank.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

phender said:


> Seems to be OK so far, but it sounds like I need to get some redart before I do another tank.


Let us know how they compare to each other after you've worked with the red art for a while.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

OK, time for updated "grow in pics"! I bet this viv looks even better now.


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## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

i second that thought  update pics please


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

My friend - THIS is what life is all about.

It's so nice to have someone somewhat involved with you in the hobby - especially a significant other.

I only now ran across this - but I'm thrilled for you in the same way I'm thrilled for myself (these days).

s


Pumilo said:


> I picked up my Summersi only a few days before Christmas. Christmas morning my wife had this under the tree for me! It's a watercolor she did herself.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Scott said:


> My friend - THIS is what life is all about.
> 
> It's so nice to have someone somewhat involved with you in the hobby - especially a significant other.
> 
> ...


Thanks Scott. Actually, she has very little interest in the frogs. Fortunately, she still takes an interest in me!


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## spangberg82 (Dec 5, 2012)

What is the recipe for the clay that you have in the background. 

Sent from my wphone using Board Express


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Any updated pics?
Buddy

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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

How did/does the Microgramma like the drier viv, I thought it would need to stay dampish for it to do well?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

markpulawski said:


> How did/does the Microgramma like the drier viv, I thought it would need to stay dampish for it to do well?


Mark, I killed the lecanopteris but here are shots of the Microgramma. I've upped the misting schedule on this viv, and surprisingly, the Microgramma was doing better when it was drier. I'm loving tendrils (wrong word, I'm sure) that it is sending down.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

spangberg82 said:


> What is the recipe for the clay that you have in the background.
> 
> Sent from my wphone using Board Express


Already posted that. Here



Pumilo said:


> That depends on how you made the clay. Normally, it might simply serve as a decorative background. It can be "friendly" towards mosses, allowing them to establish easily. Clay is also friendly towards microfauna.
> In my recipe, however, I add calcium to the mix. This can provide an additional source of calcium picked up through bugs and also through direct contact with the frogs skin.
> Recipe for clay walls here.
> 3 Quarts RedArt powdered clay
> ...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Sorry guys, I've got projects to catch up on before re-shooting all my builds. I'll get there, but I need to do trimmings before shooting, and I can't take trimmings until new builds are made. Need somewhere to put the trimmings.


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## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Sorry guys, I've got projects to catch up on before re-shooting all my builds. I'll get there, but I need to do trimmings before shooting, and I can't take trimmings until new builds are made. Need somewhere to put the trimmings.


Just send em' on over to AZ, i have a 90 gallon in need...

Mark

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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Hmmmmm, lotsa trimmings, 10 miles away, just an observation. I'm just sayin..........


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## Robert.hallam (Oct 26, 2012)

Wow this is the best clay build ive ever seen i really like the work you did with the cork and ghost wood combos i have so much of both of those laying around im definitely going to experiment with that in my next build!


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## Robert.hallam (Oct 26, 2012)

Really excited to see this once it fills in more, but then again im anxiously waiting for my own tanks to fill in as well so im used to it lol


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm afraid this tank was sold as part of my downsizing. The tank has just been harvested, but I wanted to show how the wall has held up.
As you can see, it is still in great shape. I'm afraid with my health issues, I let it get badly overgrown, so moss growth has been minimal as it was too well shaded.


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