# Can too much light burn plants?



## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

So i have a small 30x30x30 cm viv for experiments and I have 2x (20W - 7000k 1800lm) leds above.
I have some HC on the ground that has been staying there for well over 2 months now without any significant growth what so ever... Yet it keeps getting more yellow ... I seriously have no idea what to do... Other mosses are doing fine, maybe I should add some fertilizer idk ... (no animals inside).


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## Rushthezeppelin (Oct 6, 2015)

Yes it is possible to burn plants with too much light. What brand/model light are you using?

And don't add fertilizer, your microfauna will provide plenty of natural fertilizer for your plants. Perhaps there is some other reason for the yellowing too. How often are you watering and how wet do you keep the substrate.


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## CronicdenDro (Jun 27, 2015)

I doubt you have too much light however I know that yellowing of a plant can mean that it is not receiving enough nitrogen from the ground. If you ever plan on keeping animals I wouldn't use fertilizer but otherwise adding a tiny amount fertilizer high in nitrogen should help.


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## Rushthezeppelin (Oct 6, 2015)

Do you have custodians establishing themselves in the viv yet? They can introduce nitrogen into the system if that's what is missing.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

6400k color range is about perfect. Try to move your fixture 2-3" above the Viv, can you post a few pics? Contact Todd @ light your reptiles, he has some pretty amazing products.. Proud new owner of some Arcadia T-5 HO lighting .


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Its really hard to photo things because my phone's rear camera i busted, but here is a selfie shot. I cant really moove the lights up because they are home made using cob leds. 
There have been blobs of goo forming on the bottom of the substrate. I dont know of they are visible. 
My misting is 6 sec every 3 hours. If i lower it the mosses start to get dry..


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

You didn't answer some of the questions . Do you have any micro-fauna ?? Springtails can help with fungus and mold . Isopods are also very helpful. Is the tank vented ?? I'm not real great with plants but I have noticed that sometimes they seem to go into shock and I can save them if I shorten the light cycle for several days.


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

I have no micro fauna in. Its hard to find where I live... So yeah, only plants and fungi. 
It is well vented, with Euro Vent in front and back + PC fan blowing every 2 hours for 10 minutes at the doors (defogs nicely).


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Slime mold is the green blob. Usually a sign things are too wet.

Do you monitor humidity? You could probably mist less. Your substrate looks really saturated. Yellowing Moss can also be a result of being watered too frequently. The Moss could be too wet and not be able to breath. My Moss slurry took off after I went from keeping it soaking wet to just lightly damp.


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Well I could lower my mist cycle even further, but wont that hurt the moss? I know the Hemianthus wont need as much as the mosses on the background, but they tend to get dry from the LEDs kind of heating up the top.
At current my misting is as follows:
7:00 - 10 sec
10:00 - 7 sec
15:00 - 8 sec 
19:00 - 14 sec 
21:00 - 8 sec

I have a good layer of leca beads on the bottom for drainage + false bottom eggcrate thing.


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## ralph (Sep 13, 2006)

I had a similar-sounding problem once with previously healthy emersed HC turning yellow after a while. The cause for me was root health, in particular fungus on the roots.

A simple solution to this is to periodically (every few days, preferably) flood the HC completely and leaving it underwater for at least 30 mins. This would suffocate the fungus. I figure this essentially mimics the ebb & flow conditions of it's native river/boarder habitat.

In addition to this, although commonly used as an aquatic plant, I found that after it has converted to an emersed state then the plant health would benefit from air to the roots. It seemed to respond well to a free draining substrate rather than a waterlogged bog. Of course along with regular misting, humid ambient air and the frequent ebb & flow technique mentioned above.

Nothing quite like a lush healthy carpet of HC, in an aquarium or vivarium. Best of luck.


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Ok let me get this straight, you tell me its good to flud the viv? I have to drain it every day... I have to poor a bucket of water every day into it... surely this is not a solution 
Here is my substrate setup.


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## ralph (Sep 13, 2006)

Well, I'm saying it will be good for HC health. Whether or not it's a good option for your viv overall, I don't know -- depends on other plants and the ratio of absorbent substrates in your top substrate mix.

I can see how it could be a chore to do it manually with a bucket every few days. But if it could be automated with pumps on timers or if the bottom was drilled and tapped.

I've attached a few images I just took of some I'm currently growing in a couple of Tupperwares.

And here's a vid to an experiment I did with HC a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsYhObO0oxU


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

To you Guys That know plants, Is this a situation that Mycorrhizae could help.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

What are you using for a substrate? Is it only the peat moss and coca fiber?


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Yes, those were hard to find as hell... What else should there be?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

terraruums.eu said:


> Yes, those were hard to find as hell... What else should there be?


Well, I am certainly no plant expert; however, from my experience, the coco fiber and peat moss alone may not provide the drainage that is required for healthy plants. While I am experimenting with clay soils now, historically I have used an ABG mix that contains tree fern fiber, peat moss, sphagnum moss, fir bark, and charcoal. There are many other people that are using a similar type substrate but not using the tree fern fiber because it is not a renewable resource. Either way, I would encourage you to do a search on here for appropriate substrates and see what you come up with, or you can go to one of our vendors and buy a substrate that is already pre-mixed. There are many different options out there. Good luck.


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Bulgaria is not really the place when it comes to paludariums and such.. Springtails are found on 1 place in the capital only... Its really hard. And i showed what my substrate looks like, with so much leca balls it seems easy to drain.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

terraruums.eu said:


> Bulgaria is not really the place when it comes to paludariums and such.. Springtails are found on 1 place in the capital only... Its really hard. And i showed what my substrate looks like, with so much leca balls it seems easy to drain.



The LECA below the substrate is fine, but there needs to be stuff mixed within the top layer of your substrate that allows for drainage through the substrate, otherwise the top layer becomes very compact, may retain too much moisture, not allow enough aeration, etc.

Edit: Having a less compact soil will also allow space for micro fauna to thrive and will improve the overall conditions of your viv.


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## ralph (Sep 13, 2006)

Celtic Aaron said:


> Well, I am certainly no plant expert; however, from my experience, the coco fiber and peat moss alone may not provide the drainage that is required for healthy plants. While I am experimenting with clay soils now, historically I have used an ABG mix that contains tree fern fiber, peat moss, sphagnum moss, fir bark, and charcoal. There are many other people that are using a similar type substrate but not using the tree fern fiber because it is not a renewable resource. Either way, I would encourage you to do a search on here for appropriate substrates and see what you come up with, or you can go to one of our vendors and buy a substrate that is already pre-mixed. There are many different options out there. Good luck.


I would second that. Mixing in some orchid (fir) bark (or sustainable alternative), charcoal, pumice or other aggregate should improve aeration to the roots. Celtic Aaaron's suspicion is in-line with what I was getting at about air to the roots.


ralph said:


> In addition to this, although commonly used as an aquatic plant, I found that after it has converted to an emersed state then the plant health would benefit from air to the roots. It seemed to respond well to a free draining substrate rather than a waterlogged bog...


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Ok, i will see what i can do. Btw i saw some tiny white worms and little bugs yesterday while i was burrowing the substrate a bit. Thats a good thing i guess..


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

So some people stated that maybe my soil is too damp and I should make it more drainable so, I went out and got some 
Orchid mix (bark + sphagnum peat), 
I have some charcoal that I will crush,
Fern Fiber is impossible to be found in my town
Coconut Husk (those brick ones expanded)

I found some dry sphagnum but i`m sorry 7Euro for 100g ... Is that allot because to me it looks like so 

This is basically what I got, I will remix my soil (throw away the old bad one) and restart.

Should there be anything above this mix (I`m not calling it ABG because its not)? Like a thin layer of peat moss stuff or something else?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Can you send pics of the orchid mix (exactly what's in it and what percentages) and the charcoal? This may help with the advice as to what else to add, how much, or whether or not that is even suitable for a frog viv.


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

I never said there were frogs in the viv  Its just a plant one.
mix is
pine bark with white sphagnum peat, but there is no percentage on the package - klasmann-deilmann is the manufacturer. 
The charcoal is from my BBQ, plain and simple.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

terraruums.eu said:


> I never said there were frogs in the viv  Its just a plant one.
> mix is
> pine bark with white sphagnum peat, but there is no percentage on the package - klasmann-deilmann is the manufacturer.
> The charcoal is from my BBQ, plain and simple.


Haha, I made a huge assumption that you were planning on eventually putting frogs in there. Sorry about that. I would imagine that having a light, airy soil that can still retain moisture may help with your problem; however, I must admit that I have reached the extent of my knowledge in soils/substrates. I would try doing a custom search here on the forum and see the various mixes that you come up with. I have seen a lot of variations. People add clay, sand, and many other products as well. Here are just two variations from a quick search. If you spend some time combing through the forum on a search like that, you will find something that will work for you, and your plants. Good luck.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/195042-hills-substrate-adventure.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/101778-new-substrate-mix-need-opinions.html


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Pretty much what I have, just need to get the proportions right  Should I try to pull the lights further from the viv? 
The lights are a total of 4000 Lumens and the vivarium is 30 cm tall... with the false bottom, basically I have 20 cm from LED to Bottom of viv, maybe the lights are really too much.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

terraruums.eu said:


> Pretty much what I have, just need to get the proportions right  Should I try to pull the lights further from the viv?
> The lights are a total of 4000 Lumens and the vivarium is 30 cm tall... with the false bottom, basically I have 20 cm from LED to Bottom of viv, maybe the lights are really too much.


I cannot answer the lighting question for you. There are people here that can definitely get into the technical aspects of your lighting to help you determine that.


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

Well then let's hope someone helps out


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