# The Frankenvert-20g Vert Hybrid background



## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Greetings!

For the last 5 months I have been deep in my lab (living room) constructing my 2nd tank, the Frankenvert 20 gallon high vertical. My name selection is due to the tank background (3-sided) consisting of clay, GS, and pond filter. 

I've wanted to have a 20g vert tank that uses a clay background but was apprehensive after seeing threads mentioning cave-ins etc...

It seemed like the higher the clay background the less stable it became. One day I came upon a series of threads talking about pond filters as backgrounds. It seemed like a good idea except there was the possibility of frogs getting caught in the plastic wiring. 

Then BAM, it hit me, why don't I combine the background types to offset their respective weaknesses.

With that idea in mind I give you the "Frankenvert" construction thread.

Beginning with a Petco 20 gallon high tank, I first cut my pond filter to match the dimensions of the tank. I decided to make the tank background 3-sided because...well honestly I'm awful at math and ended up buying A BUNCH of pond filter on accident. 










**Side note. After cutting the pond filter I coated each side of the tank glass with a tube of silicone before proceeding to Hulk-smash the pond filter into submission against the glass.**

I made a false bottom using root blocker, egg crate, and pvc pipes. The bottom glass has a hole for draining.










After a week of letting the silicone and pond filter become best friends, I began to incorporate my 3rd construction material, GS. 

Cork bark completes me, and therefore it had to be included in the background. I ended up using the GS to attach the cork bark to the background instead of praying that the clay would somehow hold it firmly.










**Side note. I made the vines from brown silicone, clay, water, and dragon tears.**










At this point the background 'skeleton' was complete. 

More to come...


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## briley5 (Sep 27, 2012)

This looks awesome cant wait to see how it turns out.


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## hoehnelli (Jan 12, 2013)

I always love new ideas. I love the filter matereial.


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

hoehnelli said:


> I always love new ideas. I love the filter matereial.


Thanks! Yeah the idea of pond filter is not new, it was being used circa 08 by some members on the board. Its great stuff to work with, lightweight, non-toxic, perfect for roots, and is meant to be wet. If your curious, here is a link to where I bought my filter slab.

Amazon.com: Matala Filter Media Mat (Green) 23.5" X 23.5" -For Koi Pond Filtration: Patio, Lawn & Garden


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

briley5 said:


> This looks awesome cant wait to see how it turns out.


Thanks! This build has been my favorite so far, as I keep incorporating random ideas into it.


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Update...

Once the skeleton was complete I worked on the clay for the background. I had bought a bunch of clay chunks for substrate from a db member, and decided to use that mix as the clay for my background. Essentially I reverted the chunks back into mud and filled the crevices in the pond filter with the clay creating a safe and stable clay background.










Closeup shot on the left side of the tank.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Nice looking tank Willow. If you need anything you should shot people a PM on SWFG ^.^


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## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Nice idea! Excited to see how it comes out.

Mark

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Update...

So after letting the clay stabilize and making sure the pond filter could hold the weight of the clay I moved onto adding moss to the background. At about this time Josh's Frogs was having a sheet moss sale and I figured I would wallpaper the clay with fresh moss to make the background green and make sure no frog could get stuck in the background.

Here is what the tank looked like immediately after adding the moss.










Closeup of the left side of the tank. You can see that I used multiple types of moss depending on the amount of light I thought would hit a particular spot.










Closeup of right side of the tank.










After adding the moss I left the tank alone for about 4 weeks, letting the moss 'wake up' and start growing.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Wow! I really love the end result of this! Looks very nice! You say this last pic is 4 weeks after adding moss? Please keep us posted! I may have to try this on my next couple builds instead of GS & peat. A live green background looks so much better than a fake brown one. Thanks for sharing your idea with us...it just may catch on!

-Chris


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

what are you wanting to put in that tank willow? I am very excited to see this as I might want to try it sometime. Since I love my clay substrates.


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks! I love the look of a green, moss-filled tank and this one has tons of it. The last set of pics were taken directly after adding the moss to the clay background. In the weeks afterwards, the moss slowly died and then came back in a much deeper green color. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the tank as it stands today. I'm still working on finishing the substrate and planting the tank with iso's, springtails, begonias and broms. I am also working on an air circulation fan to keep the air fresh; look for an update tomorrow.




kitcolebay said:


> Wow! I really love the end result of this! Looks very nice! You say this last pic is 4 weeks after adding moss? Please keep us posted! I may have to try this on my next couple builds instead of GS & peat. A live green background looks so much better than a fake brown one. Thanks for sharing your idea with us...it just may catch on!
> 
> -Chris


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

I have 2 vanzo females that are in an x-large exo atm. The tank is starting to break down after 4 years (substrate turned to sh**), GS foam background is coming off the glass etc.. So they will be the new inhabitants of the frankenvert. I still need to find a male for them and finish a couple of ideas for the vertical tank (planting, isos, air circulation, maybe change the air vent piece..)

Of course that means the exo will need to be broken down and re-done too 



VenomR00 said:


> what are you wanting to put in that tank willow? I am very excited to see this as I might want to try it sometime. Since I love my clay substrates.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

To be honest I really like what you have built there! I have 9 vert to finish lol.m


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Very interesting and pretty! Can you elaborate which types of mosses you added to the BG, and you you got it to stick onto there?


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

looks great, what frogs are you putting in the viv?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Talk to doug or Scott. Both breed vanzos I believe and might be able to get you a male.


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## allllllen (Sep 24, 2011)

pond filter huh? wow, i need to try this.
LOVE the way your tank came out, specially how it looks 
planted. 
Are you planning on adding any broms in there?


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

The moss types that I used consisted of mood moss and sheet moss that Josh's Frogs sell. The moss arrives in a ziplock bag and is literally a rolled up piece of moss; looks just like a carpet of moss. 

Here is a link to the site...

Live Mood Moss (1 gallon) - Live Moss | Josh's Frogs

I used mood moss in the higher level of the tank as it needs more light than the sheet moss. By installing the moss in areas of high and low light I helped to stop the moss from only growing in patches. 

The clay itself is sticky, so all I did it let the clay dry out a bit to make it extra sticky and then laid the moss over the top. After a few weeks the moss was tight against the clay. I recommend letting the moss settle for a few weeks before introducing and frogs



hypostatic said:


> Very interesting and pretty! Can you elaborate which types of mosses you added to the BG, and you you got it to stick onto there?


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

I have 2 female ranitomeya vanzolinii that will be inhabiting the tank once its complete. I will also hopefully source a male to have a trio. 



whitethumb said:


> looks great, what frogs are you putting in the viv?


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Oh yeah. The moss was only for the background. I'm slowly adding broms, begonias, jewel orchids etc.. I'll post some pic in a sec.



allllllen said:


> pond filter huh? wow, i need to try this.
> LOVE the way your tank came out, specially how it looks
> planted.
> Are you planning on adding any broms in there?


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Update...

Well like I said earlier the moss color returned after a few weeks and now is a deep green color. I started ordering plants for the tank. Here are several current pictures of the tank. I still need to install my air circulation unit, finish my substrate, and possibly change out the front vent and just have 1 long piece of glass. 

Tank as it currently stands at the moment.










Here is a pic showing the moss growth so far. Its really fantastic to have such a lush, green, mossy background!










Closeup shot of the left side of the tank. I added 2 tillys on the upper level of the tank and they are taking off. 










Another benefit to a moss background is the random plants that grow out of the moss. Besides the tillys and broms, everything else growing has simply sprouted from the moss!










2nd tilly, top right corner of tank.










Right side of tank.










Left side of tank.










The 2 begonia's that I have for the bottom of the tank. They are awesome! Still need to finish up the substrate and seed the tank. 










My light setup. 2 Jungle Dawn 9 watt LEDs and 1 23 watt CF. Lots of light to get down to the begonias.


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## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

What is the name on the begonia with the round leaves?


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

i was just going to ask the same question 



Jellyman said:


> What is the name on the begonia with the round leaves?


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

I got both begonias from "The Violet Barn". They have some really cool miniatures for sale. 

The Violet Barn - Home of Rob's African Violets

The round, thick leaved plant is conchifolia rubrimacula, and the other begonia is labeled as "tiny gem".

I cant wait to get a picture of a vanzo sitting on 1 of the round leaves haha.



whitethumb said:


> i was just going to ask the same question


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Update....

Over the weekend I was able to finish a couple of things on the tank. 

1) Finished the tank substrate. I decided to use a mixture of ABG, turface, dwarf woodlice cultures, calcium nuggets, and crushed grape leaves on top.

Everything together.










First layer, Turface. Used mostly for drainage base more than calcium attributes.



















Next the ABG mix. 










Then the dwarf woodlice cultures, white and purple.










Calcium clay nuggets on top of the cultures.



















Substrate sandwich! I didn't black out the glass to hide the substrate; want to be able to see how the different substrate levels respond over time.










Planted the 2 begonias, took sea grape leaves, and crushed them up. I prefer grape leaves over magnolia or oak, as they seem to last the longest in humid environments. 










2) I had previously installed a Junglebox conversion kit, but after a month I decided that the massive vent was unnecessary so I ended up just cutting 1 long piece of glass and getting rid of the vent all together. The unobstructed view was a nice bonus too!

****I DO NOT recommend this approach if you are not planning on incorporating an air circulation unit within the tank. I live in AZ, and the tank was just drying out so fast that the vent was not practical.****










How the tank looks currently. I'll take a better photo of the tank later this week.










Bucket list:

Still need to seed the tank with springtails, find a male vanzo, and install the air circulation fan. I plan on installing the fan on the top of the tank, pointing downwards. Hopefully the air will blow across the glass and keep it fog-free. Still need to figure out how to run the wiring out of the tank somehow. 

Thanks to all those who have been helping me find a male!

Fan unit.


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

thank you for the website, im browsing now! and awesome update too!!!



Willowalker said:


> I got both begonias from "The Violet Barn". They have some really cool miniatures for sale.
> 
> The Violet Barn - Home of Rob's African Violets
> 
> ...


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## lukeklos (Dec 18, 2012)

I dont know if you did or not, but the black trim on the inside of the tank must be sealed with silicone, where the trim meets the glass. I completely over-looked this aspect, and now i have a leaky tank that i must fix:/


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Yikes! That sounds like a pretty serious problem. Are you using a water feature in your tank? My tank is sealed up nice and tight, so much that I'm having trouble figuring out where to run the fan wiring...




lukeklos said:


> I dont know if you did or not, but the black trim on the inside of the tank must be sealed with silicone, where the trim meets the glass. I completely over-looked this aspect, and now i have a leaky tank that i must fix:/


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## lukeklos (Dec 18, 2012)

Willowalker said:


> Yikes! That sounds like a pretty serious problem. Are you using a water feature in your tank? My tank is sealed up nice and tight, so much that I'm having trouble figuring out where to run the fan wiring...


No, i didnt add a water feature.


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## bkrantz65 (Oct 19, 2011)

Incredible build. I'm interested in seeing how you mount and hide the circulation fan. On another note, I work for the Violet Barn and grew those begonias. Thanks for the plug! haha


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks! I will post pictures of my finishing design for the circulation fan once I get back from vacation. 

What a small world! Well I love the plants I got so I had no problem telling others about the company. Does your company have a profile on here so I could give vendor feedback? More people should know about the company (business major side coming out)



bkrantz65 said:


> Incredible build. I'm interested in seeing how you mount and hide the circulation fan. On another note, I work for the Violet Barn and grew those begonias. Thanks for the plug! haha


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## swope2bc (Feb 25, 2013)

Ive enjoyed watching your build.. I will be waiting to learn about your fan set up. I just built a 33g pal and I'm dissatisfied with my circulation, just finished it tonight so i don't even know if its sufficient yet or not.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

That tank really does look great.

One concern, and this from experience, if the woodland moss is a Northern variety [most are], it will only live 6-12 mo, then it needs a winter dormancy....

You might slowly replace it with tropical moss, or not bother and live with the 'brown' wallcovering.

Yes, always seal the inner black frame on a vert tank [the black frame that would normally be the tank top rim], as they always leak if you dont. 


Mist moss with RO water also, otherwise minerals in Tap water or Well water seem to kill it faster.

Best,


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks for the useful information as always sports_doc.

I passed along your concern to Joshs Frogs mentioning the potential winter dormancy issue. I'll post their response as soon as I hear back from them. I'm assuming (fingers crossed) they wouldn't sell a Northern variety of woodland moss to dart frog enthusiasts but it will be good to double check. 

This information might be hugely important to anyone purchasing their frog moss in the future from Joshs Frogs.

I did indeed silicone the inside edge of the top of the tank before beginning construction; never took pics and forgot to mention it. 

From your experience, have you grown moss from spores or do you stick with established pieces of moss? 

If you have done both, have you noticed a significant difference in growth rates or longevity between spores and moss pieces?

-Willow



sports_doc said:


> That tank really does look great.
> 
> One concern, and this from experience, if the woodland moss is a Northern variety [most are], it will only live 6-12 mo, then it needs a winter dormancy....
> 
> ...


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

So I contacted Joshs Frogs regarding the possible moss dormancy issue. Here is their response (I got the ok to repost the response first).

Hi Patrick,
I've used the sheet moss with great success in several of my vivaria, and they have been thriving for 2 years or so now. Generally, when people have an issue with the moss, they are trying to grow it in improper conditions. 
As a side note, the idea that northern mosses require a winter dormancy is actually a myth. Mosses fail to thrive in captivity because their care needs are not met. One very popular and common northern moss is sphagnum moss, which is dormant over most of it's range for several months of the year. At the botany greenhouse at Michigan State University (where I worked for several years while getting my degree), we had a display of sphagnum moss that had not gone dormant for over 10 years, and was still thriving. 

Thanks,
Zach

Side note: Josh has confirmed that the moss comes from Florida. 

End result: My moss wallpaper is ok! As long as I don't kill it through not using RO water like sports_doc mentioned...


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## Boboluke (Apr 12, 2013)

Willowalker said:


> **Side note. I made the vines from brown silicone, clay, water, and dragon tears.**


Could you elaborate on the vines? They look spectacular! I don't think I have seen any others with this look.


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## zachxbass (Apr 21, 2008)

Boboluke said:


> Could you elaborate on the vines? They look spectacular! I don't think I have seen any others with this look.


I was wanting to know the process for making these too, and where can I order Dragon tears?

Sent from my kindle fire using tapatalk


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

My vine-making method was rather simple. 

Steps:

1) Buy 1-inch thick natural twisted Sisal rope, unravel into desired thickness, then cut into desired length (I cut random lengths to look more realistic and varied the thickness too) 

Shop Lehigh 1/4-in x 100-ft Natural Twisted Sisal Rope at Lowes.com

2) Buy a bottle of mineral spirits.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?...campaign=PLA&gclid=CJuprJ3517cCFfBDMgodFnUAvA

3) Buy a tube of brown silicone.

4) Buy ground up bentonite clay powder. The link explains why I choose to add this into my mixture to coat the rope with. "Its highest power lies in the ability to absorb toxins, impurities, heavy metals and other internal contaminants." The clay makes the rope look more realistic and helped set my mind at-ease with using Mineral Spirits...
Bentonite clay - Powder - Bulk Herb Store

5) Mix the brown silicone and mineral spirits in a 4-2 ratio. This part takes a while as you want the mixture to have a consistency kind of like a protein shake. 

6) With a razor blade, take your rope pieces and cut the rope lightly at random spots. The idea is to have little Sisal fiber hairs sticking out at random spots, which helps to make your vines look less like rope later on.

7) Dunk your cut rope into the silicone/mineral spirit mixture for around 15 minutes, pull it out, and let it rest for about 10 minutes.

8) After 10, take your clay powder and pour it over the rope. Once the rope pieces are coated, bend the pieces into random shapes, and leave them out in the sun to dry (I left mine outside for 3 days).

9) After they are dry, the rope will be hard and is ready for installation in your vivarium.

Dragon tears can be obtained at Slug and Jiggers Apothecary for 17 galleons per tear.

-Willow



zachxbass said:


> I was wanting to know the process for making these too, and where can I order Dragon tears?
> 
> Sent from my kindle fire using tapatalk


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## lando (Sep 10, 2010)

I'm definitely digging this tank. I like the unique approach to everything. Not your average cookie-cutter viv build.


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## Trey (Sep 10, 2008)

I sense a miscer... You aren't a miscer are you willow walker??


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)




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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Long overdue update!

Well the moss idea ended up not working out. After about 4 months the moss decided to crap out on me despite my best efforts! 

Shawn H needs to add "plant psychic" to his Frog Whisperer resume!

Not a big deal though, since my crawling plants have grown splendidly and the tank is a jungle!













By the way, I have a free lone male vanzo that needs a new home if anyone is interested, locals only!

-Willow


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