# Construction Journal: 40gal Breeder(pics) - Update 06/25/07



## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Hello everyone,

This is my first viv project and I am having a blast. It's still somewhat in the design stage. I just wanted to share my progress and see if anyone has any helpful comments or suggestions.












This picture shows the main water feature. It slopes up to around 3.75/4inches from the bottom. I really like how this is coming along. I'm going to use craft mesh for the bottom of the water fall area and most likely use pea gravel and other approved rocky material. I'm going to create a waterfall with greatstuff, DAP silicon and a nice piece of slate rock toward the top. I'm also going to make a barrier on the edges of the slopes with great stuff to hold the substrate in place. If anyone has any tips or knows of some good threads for these things please let me know. I have read and searched a lot but the more advice the better.










I'm going to use the zoomed501 for the feature. Does anybody use those clips that zoomed sells to clip the filter onto the tank? I need to look up some more info on those. I may just make my own I suppose. I will have 2in of water. Being a low tank, having the filter on top shouldn't be an issue with water flow(or at least I hope not).










This picture shows where I'm going to place the intake of the filter. I'm still not 100% sure on how I'm going to do this one yet. I would like easy access just in case. I think I might just cut a hole in the egg crate, put it in, and then cover the hole with a larger sized portion of the crate. Then if I have to I can just dig up that corner and lift a section of egg crate. I cut large notches in all of the pvc to incorporate better water movement.
That peice of cotton resembles a dead mouse but I can assure you it's not(it was used to clean the tank) .










I just wanted to share and learn. If anyone has done something similiar in design I would love to hear how it turned out.

Thanks in advance,
-Andy


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## topaz017 (Jul 30, 2006)

Looks good so far to me. Im at the same stage, except my pump has decided it wants to get here very very slowly.. I hate parcel post!!! :evil:


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2006)

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... on+journal

i did a similar barrier with the GS.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

So far I have siliconed the back of what is going to be the water feature. I've done this to make the outside look a little nicer and it's something the greatstuff will stick to better. As you can see in the pictures I have also started to greatstuff the water feature. The silicon was put on fairly thick so that took at least two weeks to cure. There is no longer a vinegar smell.

















This is what it looked like the next day after we added a little more greatstuff and let it cure. I'm going to add more layers tonight. That will be the concave section of the waterfall. It's still got a little more work and more greatstuff but I'm pleased so far with the outcome.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*More Great Stuff*

Well,
I'm almost complete with the great stuff. It will look very different after I apply just a little more and then carve it out.










I want to create a space behind the waterfall that will have rocks and moss if at all possible. I'm still not for sure on how exactly the waterfall will look like but I think I'm going to have a small stream on top and then have it break down to the bottom over a slate cliff.










I just bought this to help out a little on the shaping.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*Update: Carving Time*

Well,

I just got around to the carving part. The great stuff did shrink a little in the time that it has cured(about 5 days) but I think the heavy silicon backing really helped it stay secure.



















I've still got a bit of carving left to do. I'm really pleased so far with that exacto knife kit.

-Andy


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2006)

lookin good andy! keep postin'


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

More carving......


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## Kiari43 (Mar 6, 2006)

That is SO neat! Cant wait to see more pictures


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Have fun siliconing all of that! :lol:


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I really hope the inevitable shrinkage from the GS doesn't mess up that waterfall. It'll look really cool when it's done.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Yeah,

I'm hoping that it doesn't really shrink anymore. I really took my time spraying it in layer by layer. I would let each layer get somewhat firm and then I would leave a high powered fan on it for a while. Then I would spray it with water, turn the fan back on and wait. This generally took about 30min for each layer(or longer).

I think it took a couple of days to spray all of it in. Then, I let it sit for 5 days or so. During this time it shrunk a decent amount. I havn't seen any more shrinkage that I can tell. From cutting it away from the silicon after it had cured it didn't pull away from the silicon.

It will be a task to cover all of that in silicon but it will look good. I'm a little trigger happy at the moment but I've got to order some cocos panels for the back before I start with that.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*9/28/06 Update*

Hey everybody,

Sorry for the bad pic but I went ahead and put some tree fern fiber panels on my background. I think I can hide the gaps with my philodendron.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*waiting*

I know, I know.....not much of an update....










This stuff should be dry in another day. Perfect timing for the weekend. If it's not dry it won't stick to the silicon. It drys much much faster if you spread it out. I suppose this step could have been done a while ago to save some time.

-Andy


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*Update 10/25/06*

Well,

The coco fiber is definitely dry now. I used a dremel to smooth it out a little more and then I started to silicon. The top part has taken about two tubes.



















Not too much to go after all of this dries. I can't wait to test the pump and see how it works. I should have bought a case of silicon. I don't even want to know how much I've used so far.  

-Andy


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

Nice job so far!! Can't wait to see your progress.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Sorry about the weird angle but it works out best to have gravity on your side when you're letting the coco fiber stick to the silicon. I've got a little more to do but it's almost done.

There are still a few spots where the silicon shows through but I think with time and lots of moss spores that won't be an issue down the road.

I'll put more pics up later when the rest has cured a little.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*Ok, well......it's done for the most part!!!*

Here is the rest of the construction journal for my tank. If you have any questions for me please just let me know. I haven't been able to work on this for a while due to being ill but I really liked how it came out.


Laying in the screening....one layer thick. I just tucked it all down and then put the leca on top so that it would stay by gravity instead of pinning it down or glue.









Now here comes the dirt.









Here is a side shot of the tank after being planted.









Here is a shot with the lights out. I'm going to add some slate to the bottom of the falls and also some driftwood for the frogs to hide in.










I went ahead and seeded the tank with dwaft tropical isopods and some tropical springtails. I also had this container that I used to keep springtails in but I fed them too much yeast and mushrooms broke out everywhere. So, needless to say, I packed that dirt in there as well.

I had been trying to raise up some moss a while back and I ended up getting sick. It dried out so I just used that rich dirt as well in the tank. Along with longer fiber sphangnum and two different sizes of fir bark. It drains well and retains moisture.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

Nice! it looks awesome i can't wait till it grows in some more i may steal your gs waterfall idea if you don't mind


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Have at it! There will never be two tanks that are the same

I spread out my lighting a little more and now it's somewhat evenly lit. I'll put more pictures up sometime.


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Hey Andy!
The slate waterfall is awesome! Good job  

I have the same filter, but am going to use it on a divided planted fish tank.
Are you using the ZooMed outake for your waterfall?


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Thanks

I'm using the piece that came with it but not the endpart that youre supposed to use. The hose connects to a plastic part that has a 90 angle. I didn't have to do anything special but carve out a hole and slide it through.

I'll put some better detailed pictures up sometime later.


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## nate1821 (Jan 9, 2006)

Is it necesary to put the clay balls in even if you have a false bottom?


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

You know....I'm sure it would work either way but I figured that it wouldn't hurt. I think that it is not a bad idea because it might help with drainage more and it will allow more room between the bottom of the soil/roots and the water. I guess maybe I'm thinking semi-hydroponics or something. I'm sure the roots will dig it once they've grown in.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*A few more pictures.*

Here some more quick shots.


















I don't know what sort of plant the green stuff is that is below and on top of the waterfall. It was in a seed tray with moss that I had let go without checking for months. It stayed constantly humid with no ventilation for months and this stuff popped up. Most of the moss didn't survive. It was the tropical stuff from black jungle. 









Dendrobium sp.(I forgot which one). I need to install that fan before too long. The mold is starting to kick in.....or whatever that is.









The lights are the 10 dollar jobs. I think they are 23 watt screw in compacts. I also have an 18 watt as well to soften it up a little. We're going to get some lights with more power when we can afford that.









I picked up a Brassavola cordata from a shop in florida and I
m pleased at how it has responded so far. My hope is to get it to bloom...I was fortunate enough to get to smell it in bloom before the last flower died. These are from jamaica so they are somewhat drier and good light. I've read that it's somewhat hard to get these to bloom in the viv but it's not unheard of.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*48 Days Later*

Here is an update on how things are going. I'm going to order some lights this Friday. If anybody has any recommendations on 36" fixtures that put out 192 watts then let me know.

The green weed looking stuff that was in front of the waterfall has been removed. It ended up being a stinging nettle of some sort.









Lots of algae on the waterfall. 









Even more algae. I'm pleased with all of the moss.









Shot from the side.



























This orchid is going to survive. I really though that I had killed this one.









The Brassavola cordata is really shooting out those roots. I'm pretty pleased with how its doing. I'm hoping to get it to bloom but that's kindof hard. I'm sure it will like the 192 watts thats getting ready to shine upon it.









Anybody got an ID for this fern? I like it but I don't know what it is. It came up in some tropical moss that I had purchased from Black Jungle.









Thanks for looking. Any thoughts, comments, or suggestions are welcomed.
-Andy


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## fleshatomb (Jan 24, 2007)

woooooow thats nice. i love how the moss is starting to pop up here and there. itll be great once it gets a good foot hold in there :0 and the water fall area looks really natural.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I'd like to point out that you probably don't need 192 watts for that tank, probably not even 100.
My 40 breeder doesn't have broms, but everything else in there is growing great under a 30 watt t-12.
In a previous set-up, I used 2-36 watt pc's, and that provided good growth as well, but was a little warmer than I liked.

I've always liked the pc retrofit kits from ah supply.
For premade pc fixtures I like the sattelite/current brand fixtures, they include moonlight too.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Yeah,

The 192 is mainly for the broms and the orchids. I really want to get the Brassavola cordata to bloom in there so that is pretty much the main reason for the extra lighting.

I've got three spirals in there with a little 18watt fixture and everything is doing great, even the orchids and broms. I just want some flower action.

-Andy


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## dracotaz (May 15, 2007)

I have the same ferns growing on moss I got from Black Jungle too. 
although yours looks like it has grown much better than mine did LOL 
I have no idea what it is either but it looks nice


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

*lights*

So I have decided on lighting. I'm going to order the Coralife 36" FRESHWATER AquaLight Fixture - 2 x 96W. Anybody have experience with this light? It is Coralife so it should be good. Both bulbs will be 6700k.

The only bad thing about the light is the cost of the bulbs. But that's not too big of a deal.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

I put in a couple of new plants. The lights are nice...temps are still good. I have the ac on here most of the time which helps with that. The fixture has two fans and I have that one on the tank that is pulling air out of it.

I need to take the dremel to the mounting legs but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Here are some recent photos of how this little guy is coming along. I can't believe that it hasn't even been a year yet since it was constructed.


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## trunda (Oct 15, 2007)

wow that fixture makes a world of difference. The viv looks awesome! i love the mossy carpet? how did you manege to grow it so well? did you use some kind of spores /kyoto moss spores??/ or did it emerge spontaneously? you may add some nice ferns to make an illusion of a dark forest with the moss together they will look great, maybe korean rock fern or the white rabbit foot with their darker leaves!
anyway congratulation for your mossy carpet no.1  a


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## xm41907 (Nov 26, 2007)

I'm curious as to how the zoomeds501 is holding up. I'm working on a 29 gallon tall so there would be more of a pull of the water from the bottom. How much pressure did/does it have in your tank? 

The moss looks awesome, was it doing well before the light change, or did it just take off when you got the brighter lights?


James


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## HappyHippos1 (May 7, 2007)

WOW this tank looks great. Especially with all the moss filling in. Congrats!

Is that black jungle moss? If so I'm gonna have to try it.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

I do have some Black Jungle moss in there along with a few other species. The main stuff on the waterfall is mostly kyoto from spores but it is all mixing and you can see different patches if you look close enough. If you go with kyoto I would say the more packets the merrier and the more light the better. It likes moisture and be prepared to wait a while before it comes to life.

The 501 is perfect for this application. It puts out just enough water flow. I'm not for sure on how much higher it could be placed without running into flow issues..... maybe somebody else can chime in on that. There is some sediment on the bottom and the pump has never clogged. It makes less noise than the fans - which is nice.

Thanks for the comments. I have another 40 breeder that is empty but that one will have to wait until I'm in a bigger place.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Here is a little update. I replaced the L discolor with a Dendrobium crepidatum. The discolor was getting too much light.









The moss on the waterfall has suffered a little from turning the waterfall off for a couple of weeks or so but it always comes back.









I changed the fans around so they have a better seal. The one above the waterfall is sucking air out and the other one is blowing air in. I have noticed an improvement in all of the orchids and both broms from changing the fans.









Here is the Dendrobium crepidatum. It was in bloom when I put it in the tank but I don't think the flowers appreciated the high humidity. It does have a new growth on it which is doing well.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Well, it's been over a year and a few plants later. I've moved since the last post but the tank is still hanging in there. I'll get pictures sometime this week hopefully.

I haven't been on this forum in a while and it's really interesting to check back. I've got a few more miniature orchids since and moved a few things around but things have stayed the same for the most part.

I've been spending a lot of my hobby time lately taking care of a small reef tank. I still keep an eye out on this thing but the reef tank has taken a lot of my attention.

One thing I do love about this setup is the low maintenance. I fill it with water when the pump whines and I make sure the frogs have their flies but other than that I weed every now and then. I'll wipe the glass for guests but that's it. With my reef tank I have to look that sucker over every day!


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## alluringeli (Apr 20, 2009)

I really like the way you viv came out. I especially love the water fall. It takes a lot of time a patience to create a really nice tank with a great water fall. The moss and alge really looks good it adds a great touch. thanks for sharing....


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

what type of moss is that in the viv?


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## ryanf (May 29, 2007)

i really like the moss carpet look you did. im going to try it in my new viv


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