# Concerns about new dart frog



## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

I had been wanting to get dart frogs for about two years or so. I got a terrarium set up back in spring and finally got my first dart frog a couple days ago at a reptile expo . I figured I'd start with one in a small (about five gallons or so?) tank and perhaps upgrade in the future.

I ended up getting an adult D. leucomelas. I was told that this would be one of the easier species to keep and I liked the fact he was already an adult. I realize a 10-gallon would be ideal...I'm sure I'll end up moving him to one. But for now it seems he has plenty of room and hiding spots. I made sure to include Ghost wood to climb on so it's like having a second floor, hehe.

Of course I was originally planning to feed fruit flies until I found out my mom is very anti-fruit flies...even wingless. I didn't expect this because I've kept about every other sort of feeder insect. But I was told the frog would eat phoenix worms and pinhead crickets. The breeder said that springtails wouldn't work for a frog of his size but maybe I'll get some anyways? I've heard butterworms mentioned as a food source too so I'll look for those. Basically I am willing to feed anything besides the flies.

Now I have a few concerns...

Temperature- I've seen some caresheets recommend temperatures in the 70's during the day and mid to high 60's at night. But then others say that the high 70's to low 80's are perfect. My tank isn't heated as the lights keep the temperature around 72-75 or so during the day. It goes down to the mid-60's at night. Last night it was down to 62 at night because I left the window open...how cold is too cold for a dart frog? I had read that high temperatures are more dangerous then low temperatures hence the lack of heater. I have a heating pad but no thermostat but if it comes down to it I could hook it up and monitor it closely for now. Remember, this is a small tank with a single dart frog...I'd imagine a heater may do more harm then good?

Food- I haven't seen my new frog eat yet. I've had had him for two full days now...how long can he go without food? I offered him phoenix worms using tweezers but that only resulted in him being freaked out. He technically could've eaten since I dropped some by accident. Maybe I'll put some in a food dish? Would they climb out? Any tips on getting him to eat?

Lethargy- My frog hasn't moved from out behind the ghost wood (his favorite hiding spot...he ignores the coco hut) in 24 hours now. Unless he did when I wasn't looking and ran back. He changes positions sometimes but won't come out. He was active when I first got him...what happened? Is he sick or just still freaked out? Is it too cold?

I'm really worried about him...I want to make sure I'm doing everything right! I'd never forgive myself if he suffered because of a stupid mistake =/. I'm not new to amphibians at all (and have a cane toad, actually) but this is the most "exotic" amphibian I've kept.

Oh, and about his set up...it's a 5-gallon with a thick layer of gravel for drainage. Then there's eco-earth and moss on top of that. I want to use leaf litter but it just rained so I'm waiting to get some. I plan to mix soil in as well...right now my only plant is mounted on top of the ghost wood. I should be getting more plants later this week. I have UVB power compact lighting...a bulb intended for rainforest animals. I can't remember the wattage but it's probably like 12 or 15 watts.

I really hope some of you guys can help me out. I'm especially concerned about the not moving thing.


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

As long as hes moving in postion its fine... generally it'll take
them a long time for them (anywhere from 1-3 months) to calm 
down... all the things you've mentioned are good feeders and i dont
think you'll encounter a problem not feeding fruit flies. Check around
and you'll find some other good feeders besides fruit flies. Good Luck
(i've posted somewhere about alternitive feeders but i'll have to 
dig that up for you :wink: )


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

Dartluv said:


> As long as hes moving in postion its fine... generally it'll take
> them a long time for them (anywhere from 1-3 months) to calm
> down... all the things you've mentioned are good feeders and i dont
> think you'll encounter a problem not feeding fruit flies. Check around
> ...


Thank you for your quick reply!

Do you have any tips to get him to eat the worms?

I'm glad it's normal for him to be acting like this...I was really worried he was ill.


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

Well springtails isnt an option... sorry forgot to mention that
but he's too old... have you tried pinhead crickets? those might
work better then the worms... but you could just put the worm
in there and let it be... because the luec would probably freak
out while your hand is in there...


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## uespe1018 (Apr 10, 2007)

What's your humidy like? Are you misting?


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

Dartluv said:


> Well springtails isnt an option... sorry forgot to mention that
> but he's too old... have you tried pinhead crickets? those might
> work better then the worms... but you could just put the worm
> in there and let it be... because the luec would probably freak
> out while your hand is in there...


I haven't tried pinhead crickets yet, I plan to order some. Yeah, I ended up leaving a couple worms in there. I have a feeling they'll just end up turning into flies, haha. Maybe he'll eat those :roll:.



uespe1018 said:


> What's your humidy like? Are you misting?


Humidity has been staying between 70 and 80 percent. Yes, I am misting heavily twice a day or so.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

congrats and welcome to dendroboard!
tank- a 5 gallon tank will be fine for right now, but in the future you want at least a 10 gallon. so i wouldn't go allout making the 5 gallon all pretty cause it's just a temp tank. 10 gallons are just as cheap as 5 gallons, and are a better size. for the substrate leaf litter or moss is best, the plain dirt just gets stuck on them and they dont like that. 

temp- your daytime temps are perfect. 62 is a little on the low side, but i wouldn't worry about it, just don't let it fall any lower than that. so i wouldn't worry about heating it more or anything. as far as the bulb, you don't need anything fancy. a 2$ bulb from walmart or home depot works great. if you have a glass lid the beneficial rays will not do anything anyways. 

food- while darts can eat other things, they really like flies. i would work on your mom, it could make a big difference. what about springtails? they are easy and they don't really excape like fruit flies do. they are smaller and shouldn't be a staple food, but are a good additive. if it's not eating the pheonix worms i suggest you switch foods quickly so it doesn't get skinny. for the FF, you only need 1 or 2 cultures and they don't smell too bad. plus they are a heck of a low cheaper than pheonix worms. and much easier to feed. you just dump them in. i wouldn't suggest hand feeding you leuc, darts stress VERY easily and that will probably do more harm than good at this point. as long as the frog looks healthy i woulnd't worry about how much it eats. 

lethargy- darts take a LONG time to acclimate. at least thats what i have found. i had a a pair of imis for three months and i only saw them a few times. i would have thought the male was dead if he hadn't called all the time. i had an auratus i didn't see much for 6 months but then one day he decided to come out and be bold. they are weird, i wouldn't worry about that. as long as it responds when you open the tank or make noise. don't stress it out though. i'd give it another day or two and see if it eats and if not you really should switch to fruit flies. 

good luck!


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

otis07 said:


> congrats and welcome to dendroboard!
> tank- a 5 gallon tank will be fine for right now, but in the future you want at least a 10 gallon. so i wouldn't go allout making the 5 gallon all pretty cause it's just a temp tank. 10 gallons are just as cheap as 5 gallons, and are a better size. for the substrate leaf litter or moss is best, the plain dirt just gets stuck on them and they dont like that.


Yeah, I actually have an empty 10-gallon. Right now it's just a matter of finding a place to put it, haha. Yup, I have moss right now and will be using leaf litter too once the leaves outside dry a bit (it's been rainy).



otis07 said:


> temp- your daytime temps are perfect. 62 is a little on the low side, but i wouldn't worry about it, just don't let it fall any lower than that. so i wouldn't worry about heating it more or anything. as far as the bulb, you don't need anything fancy. a 2$ bulb from walmart or home depot works great. if you have a glass lid the beneficial rays will not do anything anyways.


Ok, great . There actually isn't a glass top so the rays do get through. I know it's probably not necessary but I figured the plants might do better? 



otis07 said:


> food- while darts can eat other things, they really like flies. i would work on your mom, it could make a big difference. what about springtails? they are easy and they don't really excape like fruit flies do. they are smaller and shouldn't be a staple food, but are a good additive. if it's not eating the pheonix worms i suggest you switch foods quickly so it doesn't get skinny. for the FF, you only need 1 or 2 cultures and they don't smell too bad. plus they are a heck of a low cheaper than pheonix worms. and much easier to feed. you just dump them in. i wouldn't suggest hand feeding you leuc, darts stress VERY easily and that will probably do more harm than good at this point. as long as the frog looks healthy i woulnd't worry about how much it eats.


I was told the frog was too old for springtails...he's nearly full grown. Do you think I should get some anyways? Yeah, I'll try talking to my mom again. But I don't know if she'll change her mind =/. I was going to try pinheads...I have adult crickets for my toad so maybe I can get them to breed? How are pinheads as a staple? Supplemented with other insects, of course.



otis07 said:


> lethargy- darts take a LONG time to acclimate. at least thats what i have found. i had a a pair of imis for three months and i only saw them a few times. i would have thought the male was dead if he hadn't called all the time. i had an auratus i didn't see much for 6 months but then one day he decided to come out and be bold. they are weird, i wouldn't worry about that. as long as it responds when you open the tank or make noise. don't stress it out though. i'd give it another day or two and see if it eats and if not you really should switch to fruit flies.
> 
> good luck!


Ok, that's good to hear. I was nervous thinking maybe something was wrong.

Thank you!


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## uespe1018 (Apr 10, 2007)

Your frog will probably be more active when humidy levels are higher than 80%. They tend to hide more when humidities are lower than this. 80-100% (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is usually the general humidity window to shoot for. Best of luck...


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

uespe1018 said:


> Your frog will probably be more active when humidy levels are higher than 80%. They tend to hide more when humidities are lower than this. 80-100% (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is usually the general humidity window to shoot for. Best of luck...


Oh, ok, thank you. I will mist him more, then .


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## NathalieB (Apr 23, 2007)

Sasami said:


> I was told the frog was too old for springtails...he's nearly full grown. Do you think I should get some anyways?


I feed springtails to all my adult frogs, and they love it. I have never heard of the fact that at a point they are "too old" for springtails. in fact, the favourite food of all my frogs are mites and I see them eating "invisible things" all the time so I'm pretty sure they like small insect very much.
The only problem with springtails is that they usually can't be cultured massive enough to use them as main food source.
I feed out fruitflies only once in a while (once in 2 or 3 weeks I think) and the frogs are fine. I do have a lot of variation in insects to feed them (pea aphids, firebrats, different species of springtails, different species of woodlice, confused flour beetles, bean beetles and wax moth larvae). I know of other people who have stopped culturing fruitflies and their frogs are doing fine too.
as said: hand-feeding your frog is not a good idea so just put the feeder animals in a small cup or something like that. a lot of my frogs won't eat the lesser waxmoth larvae (they are scared of them) so maybe your frog doesn't like worms either. in that case you should try to find an alternative foodsource fast.
it is normal that he is shy at first. I don't ever see my auratus during daytime, but at night when I pass their tank they are out in the open and hunting so they get their food during the night I guess. leucs are usually very bold so after a while you should see more of him.

and tell your mom that having fruit flies in your house is much much much better than having crickets in your house, so if she can handle those I don't see what her problem is with fruitflies. crickets are the only food source that will never ever enter my house again.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

lets see...
for adult frogs, they LOVE springtails, they are easy to catch and the frogs really seem to like the taste. i feed it to my tincs and they are almost full grown. it just makes a good additive. as far as pinheads as a staple, you could try it, but unless you breed them yourself that will be pretty expensive. i have 4 tinctorius that are almost full grown and i feed them FF, pinheads, and springtails, the springtails go first, then the flies, then if they are very hungry and there isn't anything else to eat they get the crix. most of the pinheads just end up dying in the tank and not getting eaten, but a few manage to get eaten. another thing with crix is they hide in the substrate, flies don't, they go up where the most light is and the frogs usually know where to find them. 

so you have a screen lid? darts really should have a glass lid, and if they don't a false bottom or something similiar is a necessity. you would have to mist A LOT for the humidity to be what it should be, saves a lot of time with a glass lid. the plants also do a heck of a lot better, even though all the rays don't get through. i have used both bulbs under the same conditions and there really wasn't a difference. at least not enough to spend that much on them. 

good luck!


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

Did I read that correctly as 1 plant in the tank (and above where the frog is hanging out)? 

If that's true, suggestion number 1 would be add more plants! They don't have to be fancy- simple pothos or philodendron cuttings will be just fine. But they should make your frog feel more secure, and help raise ambient humidity.

With regards to food. I say pull a fast one on Mom. Make sure you get WINGLESS not just flightless fruitflies, and come up with another name to call them. They won't bug her if you keep the cultures pure and flightless, but she doesn't know that yet. While there are other options for feeding, there is a good reason why 90% of the US hobby uses fruitflies- they are the easiest to maintain in relatively low quantities over longterm, with minimal supplies.

Cheers,

Afemoralis


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

NathalieB said:


> Sasami said:
> 
> 
> > I was told the frog was too old for springtails...he's nearly full grown. Do you think I should get some anyways?
> ...


Oh, really? Man, I really wish I had bought some springtails at the reptile expo, then. I was just told he wouldn't eat them. Are there any good places online to order them?

I don't know why she's so against the flies. I think she's afraid they'll all escape and there will be tiny bugs everywhere. I'll keep asking, though.



otis07 said:


> lets see...
> for adult frogs, they LOVE springtails, they are easy to catch and the frogs really seem to like the taste. i feed it to my tincs and they are almost full grown. it just makes a good additive. as far as pinheads as a staple, you could try it, but unless you breed them yourself that will be pretty expensive. i have 4 tinctorius that are almost full grown and i feed them FF, pinheads, and springtails, the springtails go first, then the flies, then if they are very hungry and there isn't anything else to eat they get the crix. most of the pinheads just end up dying in the tank and not getting eaten, but a few manage to get eaten. another thing with crix is they hide in the substrate, flies don't, they go up where the most light is and the frogs usually know where to find them.
> 
> so you have a screen lid? darts really should have a glass lid, and if they don't a false bottom or something similiar is a necessity. you would have to mist A LOT for the humidity to be what it should be, saves a lot of time with a glass lid. the plants also do a heck of a lot better, even though all the rays don't get through. i have used both bulbs under the same conditions and there really wasn't a difference. at least not enough to spend that much on them.
> ...


You mentioned catching springtails...how would I go about doing that?

I don't have a screen lid, it's a black plastic aquarium hood. I was told on another forum that it won't work, though. I have another tank of the same size with a piece of glass between the hood and the tank so I'm going to use that for the dart tank instead.



Afemoralis said:


> Did I read that correctly as 1 plant in the tank (and above where the frog is hanging out)?
> 
> If that's true, suggestion number 1 would be add more plants! They don't have to be fancy- simple pothos or philodendron cuttings will be just fine. But they should make your frog feel more secure, and help raise ambient humidity.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I only have one plant right now. I'm going to get more at the end of this week. I couldn't really afford to buy a bunch of plants at the expo since I had spent twice as much as I meant to spend on the frog, haha. The adult leucs were $70 while the little ones were more like $30. But I figured an adult would be better.

I'm thinking I should try to sneak some in. I don't know if I'd be able to culture them without her realizing what they are but this way I can at least food some.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Dartluv said:


> Well springtails isnt an option... sorry forgot to mention that
> but he's too old... have you tried pinhead crickets? those might
> work better then the worms... but you could just put the worm
> in there and let it be... because the luec would probably freak
> ...


I have to know where you got this info from... it's just not true. My leucs eat springs all the time. Granted they are the staple diet, but there is no such thing as "too old" for springtails. Some larger frogs like tincs don't like springs when they are older, but they will sure as hell eat em. 
I don't know exactly what you mean by moving in position, but it shouldn't take a frog that isn't stressed in some way 1-3 months to acclimate. If it takes that long, then you haven't eliminated a stress concern.

As Sea and other have mentioned, there are some things that you can do that will help. Monitor the humidity and mist as necessary to keep it above 85%, monitor temp swings (the temps you said are just fine), and add more cover/plants for him to hide. Also, I don't know if I read this right or wrong, but if your are putting tweezers in the viv with a worm, cricket, fly, horny toad, or gummy bear on the end, the frog isn't going to eat and will become VERY stressed with your insistance and continued offering. Best to make a small dish (baby food tops or anything a similar shape and size works well) and put the worms in there. For flies, crickets, or other moving type of food, just dump them in... your frog will find em. In regards to your temps... DONT USE A HEAT PAD! Do a search, but the results can be as bad a a cracked tank or dead frog. Your best bet would be to use your lights above your tank to help regulate the temps and then use your home heating/AC to keep the room it's in at a comfortable temp. It sounds harder than it really is, but if you set the thermostat to keep you comfortable, chances are it will keep the frogs near the right temp too... just keep monitoring it.


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

sbreland said:


> Dartluv said:
> 
> 
> > Well springtails isnt an option... sorry forgot to mention that
> ...


Where do you get your springtails? Thank you...yeah, I realized pretty quickly that he wasn't going to eat from the tweezers like my other herps.

He actually was out today but I spooked him by accident and now he's back in hiding. He likes his water dish a lot...is this because the humidity is too low? I just put a cover between the hood and tank that should help keep the humidity up. It's meant to protect an aquarium bulb from splashes but the aquarium it was over doesn't have fish right now anyways.


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

Spring tails are give or take because sometimes 
they do take them but i've not heard of it as a very good
source.. more like a snack


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

Oh, just read your post Sbreland, granted its an adult frog and springtails probably weren't feed before then i wouldnt even attempt to feed springtails because they would take getting used to and wouldnt be that good of a diet. When i say aclimate im talking about when a frogs becomes bolder and will be out in the open much more. Most if not All my frogs have taken at least 1-3 months and have turned out fine. 3 Months is probably a little long but at least one is the norm (at least for me) just curious Sbreland, do your frogs adjust quicker?


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Much quicker. Most take a week at most before they are in their normal routine, but usually shorter. In reality, the idea of acclimated is not a hard fast rule but more an interpretation of how much the frog acts in realtion to how stressed it is. 
Springtails are not a food that has to be trained or acclimated to... they fit that special niche that darts love... perfect size, easy to catch, and just the right amount of movement to draw attention. Springs are actually more nutritious than a lot of other dart foods and are a pretty decent supplier of calcium in juvie frogs, so the nutrition aspect is not dead on. In adults it would take more springs to accomplish the same idea, but they are still a great feeder source. While I wouldn't use them as a staple (at least I wouldn't use one type of Spring as a staple), they are a great supplement and can definitely get frogs through the lean time. If you want a good read, punch in Microfauna in the search and read any of the posts that I or Brent (bbrock) have discussed at length regarding springs, microfauna, and pumilio to get a better idea of how good a food source they are.

Sasami,
I actually don't remember where I got my common Springtails from (it was so long ago), but I want to say it was from Josh at Josh's Frogs, but I could be wrong. I culture my own and have imported several diffenrent types from Europe over time, so I guess the answer is several places. 
The behavior you describe sounds like a stress response, and likely due to humidity issues. One thing you can do if you want to seal the viv temporarily is to just cover the top with clear saran wrap and then place whatever top you have now on top of that. The saran wrap will seal the viv and keep the humidity up and the top that you have now will hold the wrap down. Don't worry about it being "sealed"... there is plenty of air in there as long as you open it every day or two.


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

sbreland said:


> Much quicker. Most take a week at most before they are in their normal routine, but usually shorter. In reality, the idea of acclimated is not a hard fast rule but more an interpretation of how much the frog acts in realtion to how stressed it is.
> Springtails are not a food that has to be trained or acclimated to... they fit that special niche that darts love... perfect size, easy to catch, and just the right amount of movement to draw attention. Springs are actually more nutritious than a lot of other dart foods and are a pretty decent supplier of calcium in juvie frogs, so the nutrition aspect is not dead on. In adults it would take more springs to accomplish the same idea, but they are still a great feeder source. While I wouldn't use them as a staple (at least I wouldn't use one type of Spring as a staple), they are a great supplement and can definitely get frogs through the lean time. If you want a good read, punch in Microfauna in the search and read any of the posts that I or Brent (bbrock) have discussed at length regarding springs, microfauna, and pumilio to get a better idea of how good a food source they are.
> 
> Sasami,
> ...


Thank you, maybe I'll see if the exotics petstore would be able to order some. Saran wrap was actually just suggested by someone on another forum so I will definitely do that . We don't have any so I have to wait until tomorrow so I can walk to the grocery store.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

If you're going to go out and buy some, get the press 'n seal instead. It's more opaque, but holds up better in the long run. You'll want it also to make sure the frog does not crawl up and come in contact with the light bulb which could burn it... so the seperater has two purposes. I have a few tanks with screen lids on them with just a sheet of press 'n seal over most of the top of the tank to help control humidity.

Leaf litter has always been the most helpful to me with frogs...a nice layer of that makes just about any frog feel safe. As long as the trees they fell off of were not sprayed with chemicals, it doesn't matter if they are wet or not! Just grab some, give them a rinse, and toss in the tank.

Check out this article on breeding small amounts of pinheadsfrom adult crickets. Take advantage of the adult crickets you have for your toad. Pinheads are expensive, die easily in shipping, and are often shipped at a size larger than most of the PDFs will eat (week olds rather than true pinheads). You also have to order them in amounts way more than a single animal would eat before they grew too large!

The thing about FFs is they are simple, most of the "just add water" medias on the market don't smell much, and you can keep them around on a consistant basis. Wingless are the easiest to keep in check, and combined with a "FF proofed" tank there is no reason you should have flies everywhere except for occassional mishaps. I have two racks of tanks right now and even tho I feed around 3 times a week, I only have the occassional fly other than a couple that may get out when feeding. You'll probably get more escaped crickets than you would FFs. FFs also don't live nearly as long outside the tank as crickets do...


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

Your frogs truely take 1-3 days to get into a routine where
they are more out in the open and active? I'd like to know
why this is because ive rarely seen anyone that it takes this
short of a time to aclimate... most people experiance the month
thing, from what i've found. Samsi sorry to steal your thread. 
PM me sbreland if you want to go futhur with this.


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

KeroKero said:


> If you're going to go out and buy some, get the press 'n seal instead. It's more opaque, but holds up better in the long run. You'll want it also to make sure the frog does not crawl up and come in contact with the light bulb which could burn it... so the seperater has two purposes. I have a few tanks with screen lids on them with just a sheet of press 'n seal over most of the top of the tank to help control humidity.
> 
> Leaf litter has always been the most helpful to me with frogs...a nice layer of that makes just about any frog feel safe. As long as the trees they fell off of were not sprayed with chemicals, it doesn't matter if they are wet or not! Just grab some, give them a rinse, and toss in the tank.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I actually do have a separator so burning isn't a problem. I took apart part of an aquarium hood so there's now a clear plastic top between the hood and tank (meant to protect the bulb from splashes and humidity). 

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. That's what I figured...since I already buy adult crickets for Trevor I might as well try to breed them. I'm going to try to get FFs but pinheads should be ok for now, I hope? There were actually a couple of baby crickets mixed in with the adults I got yesterday so I put those in the dart tank. I hope he eats them...they aren't pinheads but are pretty small and he's full grown so I think he can eat them.

My mom seems more bothered about FFs escaping then crickets. I think she's more annoyed by little insects. I rarely have crickets escape but when it happens she never cares.

What exactly would a FF-proofed tank be? Do you keep them in the containers they come in or what?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

FF proofed just means that you've taken measures to make sure that FFs cannot/will not get out of your tank. No gaps, fine enough mesh used, etc.

The containers they come it would also be FF proof or it would defeat the purpose :lol: The only real ways FFs get anywhere are when there is an accident with feeding (a couple around is normal, but a slew of them usually is the result of dropping a container of them) or the tank they are fed to isn't capable of keeping the flies in the tank.


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

I just wanted to give an update .

My mom gave in and said I can feed the FFs as long as there are no escapes. Unfortunately I can't get any for a couple more days since I had to order them. 

Right now I'm feeding pinhead crickets. He must be eating them since they seem to disappear. I really hope he is, anyways. The other day I think he ate one of the phoenix worms but I'm not sure.

But he's still hiding constantly . I just don't know what to do. There are plenty of hiding spots.

Also, I can't get the humidity to stay up which is probably the problem. I got saran wrap but it only helped a little bit. I'm going to cut another piece to see if I can get it to fit better. It stays up at around 80% during the day because of mistings but at night it must drop. By the next morning it's down to 60% . Any tips?


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Fit the Saran over the entire top except when feeding or misting. I've never experienced leucs being shy and hiding much except when the humidity is low, but I've always kept them in groups, even as froglets and juveniles. I think they get too busy with each other, competing with hunting, etc. to notice you, and then quickly learn you are the food guy. The humidity will be different in different parts of the tank, and so will the temperatures. The humidity will be the highest next to the damp soil and plants, which will retain more heat from the daytime temperatures, as well. It could be he's just more comfortable there. You could try putting a shallow water dish with some oak leaves in it under a single coco-hut and see if the frog will at least choose that spot regularly as a hide. 

I'm glad your Mom finally consented to the fruit flies. They are so much easier to raise and feed as a staple diet than anything else. If you stick to only one type, they are less likely to cross breed and produce any flighted off spring. I personally like the wingless variety of melanogaster. If you raise them in 16 oz cups with the lids that have the pasted in screening under the holes, these are nearly escape proof. and the lids can be recycled and used again a couple of times. The older coffee filter or paper-towel screens don't work as well, because the larvae can eat through them when they get wet, and flighted fruit flies can get in to breed with them, as well. I still get a few escapees, but not nearly as many as I used to. When you feed, you can also keep a piece of fruit such as an orange slice in the tank, which will attract them so they aren't as likely to be looking for an escape route. You can use any fruit, but the oranges don't deteriorate as quickly as others.


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

slaytonp said:


> Fit the Saran over the entire top except when feeding or misting. I've never experienced leucs being shy and hiding much except when the humidity is low, but I've always kept them in groups, even as froglets and juveniles. I think they get too busy with each other, competing with hunting, etc. to notice you, and then quickly learn you are the food guy. The humidity will be different in different parts of the tank, and so will the temperatures. The humidity will be the highest next to the damp soil and plants, which will retain more heat from the daytime temperatures, as well. It could be he's just more comfortable there. You could try putting a shallow water dish with some oak leaves in it under a single coco-hut and see if the frog will at least choose that spot regularly as a hide.
> 
> I'm glad your Mom finally consented to the fruit flies. They are so much easier to raise and feed as a staple diet than anything else. If you stick to only one type, they are less likely to cross breed and produce any flighted off spring. I personally like the wingless variety of melanogaster. If you raise them in 16 oz cups with the lids that have the pasted in screening under the holes, these are nearly escape proof. and the lids can be recycled and used again a couple of times. The older coffee filter or paper-towel screens don't work as well, because the larvae can eat through them when they get wet, and flighted fruit flies can get in to breed with them, as well. I still get a few escapees, but not nearly as many as I used to. When you feed, you can also keep a piece of fruit such as an orange slice in the tank, which will attract them so they aren't as likely to be looking for an escape route. You can use any fruit, but the oranges don't deteriorate as quickly as others.


After I typed that he came out from hiding for a little while, haha. Thanks for the tips! He does have a water dish that he likes...I'll try moving it to the hut.

About culturing the flies...I see so many different mixtures to feed them. What do you do? I'm not sure if I should buy one or make my own...?


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

You can do either, but the dry mixtures that Saurian and Ed's Fly Meat--and probably others, are simple and work great. The only downside is the shipping cost. There are a lot of good recipes. One time when I ran out of media, I just mixed up some dried potato flake, a little dry corn meal, some brewers yeast and a spoonful of vinegar added to the water with a sprinkle of baker's yeast when I diluted it. This was on 9/21, and it's still producing flies, although they seemed a bit slower to start. So you don't have to do any extensive cooking.


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## Sasami (Oct 29, 2007)

slaytonp said:


> You can do either, but the dry mixtures that Saurian and Ed's Fly Meat--and probably others, are simple and work great. The only downside is the shipping cost. There are a lot of good recipes. One time when I ran out of media, I just mixed up some dried potato flake, a little dry corn meal, some brewers yeast and a spoonful of vinegar added to the water with a sprinkle of baker's yeast when I diluted it. This was on 9/21, and it's still producing flies, although they seemed a bit slower to start. So you don't have to do any extensive cooking.


Thank you! Maybe I'll look into ordering a pre-made one so I don't screw up.

My frog has been coming out more now...I guess he's finally settling down .


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

That's good news. Usually with leucs their appetites usually overcome any fear.


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