# Surinam vs. Brazilian Cobalt Tincs



## Guest (May 30, 2004)

I have two Surinam Cobalt Tincs, but they look very different from each other (though each beautiful in their own way). I have read that there is much variation in Surinam cobalts, and elsewhere that there are two "variations" of Surinam Cobalts. I got my frogs from a reputable breeder, and they are from different lines, so I do not doubt that they are both Surinam Cobalts, but I was wondering if I saw a Brazilian cobalt how would I know that it was that and not a Surinam? :? Could someone post some pics of a Brazilian and Surinam Cobalt and point out some of the differences?


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## Guest (May 30, 2004)

While there is not always a definate difference. Size is an easy one surinams are usually much larger. Also brazillians will often tend to have more orange coloration and often a larger head cap. however the orange is not present in all or even most.


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## Guest (May 31, 2004)

arent the brazilian morph considered a "dwarf" variation? very similar coloration, but only top out at 2".


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2004)

Also...where do the Dwarf French Guiana tincs fit in this picture?


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

Brazilians tend to have a yellower/oranger head than the Surinam Cobalts. The Dwarf French Guiana Tincs are similar to the Surinam in looks but are much smaller. 

I'll try to get photos of French Guiana and Surinam Cobalts up on this thread tonight when I get home.

Here is a link to a thread that Adam put a picture of his Brazilians on.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1123


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2004)

Having spoke with Sarah on this, it was discerned that one of the lines you have came from a breeding pair of mine. I have posted pics of this pair below. They are both F1 from WC parents thus the offspring are F2. The diversity in Suriname cobalts seems to be pretty high as I have another female that has the most yellow I have ever seen in a cobalt. I acquired her as an adult from Thomas Villegas last year. I have posted a pic of her as well. Hope this is of any help. 

-Bill J.

*F1 Female*









*F1 male*









*intense yellow in specimen*


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

Thanks Bill! That is a huge difference between your breeders and the other one.

I'm having some technical difficulties  with the pics of my pair but will get them up when I can figure it all out. (I asked Bill to put his up so you can see that for now.) I also have a second pair of cobalts that I just picked up at IAD. Plus I have some of the Dwarf Cobalts that I plan on putting up pics of as well....... 

My Cobalt breeders are also F1's from wildcaught which makes your little one a F2.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey Bill,

Thanks for the reply! One of the tincs I got from Sarah and Melissa looks much like your "intense yellow specimen" although not as bright yellow:










Beautiful little frog, and doing well. I appreciate knowing a bit more about the lineage. Thanks! Sarah and Melissa mentioned that they had gotten the froglet from you. I had read some about variation in Surinam cobalts, but I figured there was a particular difference between Surinam/Brazilian Cobalts that I was missing - a pattern on the belly, spotting on the legs or some such. 

And thanks Sarah as well for the info. I am looking forward to seeing your Dwarf Cobalt pics.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2004)

No problem at all. I'm pretty sure that your froglet from my breeding pair will turn out to look like the parents. I haven't bred the intense yellow female yet as I'd rather find a male of similar coloration to keep the yellow intense in offspring. Nearly all froglets from tincs will have this intense coloration but as they mature, most will fade out into a creamy white with the most yellow being around the eyes. Best of luck...they are great frogs!
-Bill J.


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

Ok I think I have the technical difficulties mostly straightened out. This has been posted at various places including Kingsnake. The one on the right is a female Dwarf Cobalt. The one on the left is a cross. Bill has already posted a picture of the Surinams. 

You'll notice that the Dwarf Cobalt and the Surinam's look similar. There is a huge size difference though. The Female Dwarf Cobalts are larger than the Male Dwarf Cobalts but they are still much smaller than the Surinam Cobalts. There is a difference in froglet and tadpole size as well.

Additionally notice how close the cross looks to the two (there is a bit of a lighting difference in the two pictures). The cross is about half way between in size of the Dwarfs and Surinams. 

As you can see identification of some of these morphs can get rather confusing. Especially if you throw in 'man-made' ones. The only thing you have to go on is what the seller says it is and past experience. A lot of things effect the color like stress and diet. The patterns are unique to every frog even within a morph.

I'm not sure I answered any of your questions or just created new ones but if you have any more questions let me know..........


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2004)

*Rainforest Junkies*

I purchased cobalt tincs from him almost exactly a year ago. I've come to assume they are Suriname cobolts from pictures, They are much larger than any of my others (though also several months older). Anyone know for sure what morph they are?


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