# ?? Lexan



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I am wondering about the workability and viv-suitability of Lexan polycarbonate as an alternative to acrylic and PVC. Does anybody have any experience with Lexan? I want to build some panels to go on top of viv enclosures and Lexan could be preferable to PVC because it will let light shine through. Does Lexan warp like acrylic in the presence of moisture and warmth?


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## Johno2090 (Aug 31, 2011)

I use it on the top of my 55gal and have had no ill effects at all with it warping or discolouring, I did use one of the thicker panels.

Are you the same person as from ukaps?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/80722-lexan-top.html
lexan can leeche chemicals into your viv


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## Johno2090 (Aug 31, 2011)

That's an interesting thread thanks for linking, however after reading some of the links and studies I'm not really concerned, it seems like it would only be an issue over a prolonged period of using recycled water through the tanks.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I used to raise discus in 65 gallon tanks and used lexan for the tops of those tanks. Even with the water temp being 85F I never had any warping issues.

I also used lexan for the front door of my vivs when I used vertical tanks - http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...-viv-insert-updated-12-10-06-almost-done.html


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## Johno2090 (Aug 31, 2011)

I think it's just a lot of people just worrying over nothing, we all know how fragile discus can be!!!


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## bikerboypete (Aug 28, 2012)

i used a 2mm thick lexan lid on my viv thats pretty thin, ive had it running for 2 months with really high humidity and a heated water feature (it gets pretty damn cold up north haha) and had no problems ive only got a small-ish viv so id say go quite abit thicker but yeah its good stuff. Much cheaper than some people make out, plus you can cut it and drill it yourself with wood work tools.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

I had thicker lexan as lids covering the top of my 75 gal. Each length was 24", and I think the width was 1-2/8" or so. I had big problems with warping, but I believe that T5 fixture on the top was a contributing factor. As along as you don't have weight on top I think you will be fine.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for this input folks.

I could have found that old thread with a search, but I just have never heard any mention of using Lexan with vivs.

In terms of leaching of endocrine disrupting chemicals I suppose there would be a significant difference between a closed up, humid viv and a more airy setup.

When I was a teenager working in the fast food restaurant we microwaved everything in Lexan trays. Yuck!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I personally don't use Lexan due to the possible endocrine disruption problems. I have seen mentions of it around though. People's reported success seems to be quite varied. Some have reported it worked fine for them, while others have reported that even fairly thick Lexan will eventually warp. I would imagine that thickness, and the surface area of the Lexan, will influence it's effectiveness. The humidity in your viv and the humidity of your home will influence it, too. 
A thinner piece, with a large surface area, should warp more readily. A very humid viv, in a very arid home, will also cause more problems.
With both acrylic and lexan, the side exposed to your viv will absorb moisture while the outside does not. This causes the underside (or the moist side) to expand, thus warping the edges upwards.
Some have reported success by flipping the lid over, every few days, but that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Forget once and you have frog jerky on the floor.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Ya'll might want to review http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1241572/pdf/ehp0111-001180.pdf since release can increase over time.... 


and maybe.. The Xenoestrogen Bisphenol A Inhibits Postembryonic Vertebrate Development by Antagonizing Gene Regulation by Thyroid Hormone 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed said:


> Ya'll might want to review http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1241572/pdf/ehp0111-001180.pdf since release can increase over time....
> 
> 
> and maybe.. The Xenoestrogen Bisphenol A Inhibits Postembryonic Vertebrate Development by Antagonizing Gene Regulation by Thyroid Hormone
> ...


Good stuff Ed. Too bad so many will still say it's a big "pant-load" because their frog didn't instantly die. What really gets me is the argument, _"Well such and such manufactures it specifically for vivs. That's proof that it is 100% safe."_


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> Good stuff Ed. Too bad so many will still say it's a big "pant-load" because their frog didn't instantly die. What really gets me is the argument, _"Well such and such manufactures it specifically for vivs. That's proof that it is 100% safe."_


Denial is a big problem in this hobby.. and very common, people just want to be told what they want to hear. 

When I worked at the the zoo (and in the pet stores), people would call and complain there were problems with thier animals and want help.. One of the first questions I always would ask is how warm is the animal? and often the people would ask how warm they were supposed to be so they could regurgitate your answer back to you.... 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

But denial is such a happy place. You don't have to do a thing.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

I've had lexan lids that have warped, although it did take a while. They were fairly thick too, over 1/2". And from what I've read they definitely leech chemicals. Why risk it?

Good links Ed.


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## Johno2090 (Aug 31, 2011)

Thanks for the links ED, luckily I already have two new all glass Euro vivs coming in the next week!


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

Acrylic only warps when the piece is too thin for the application (of course this could be said for virtually any material!). This is what allows aquariums to be built out of acrylic, and when acrylic aquariums first hit the market some indeed warped because they were constructed of too thin a material. I use 1/4" acrylic for my viv tops and although its only been 9 months there are literally zero signs of warping. Basically if you can't really bend the piece at the length it will be used (on a 12" piece for a viv for example) then the odds of it warping are very low. 

Also for what its worth: when I got the lids cut at TAP plastics I had initially asked the guy for Lexan tops. When he asked me the application and why I wanted Lexan he said Lexan is actually is MORE warp prone than acrylic and that I would be much better off going with acrylic. I can't think of any reason he would steer me to the cheaper acrylic other than it is in fact preferable over Lexan for my application.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

TerraFerma said:


> Acrylic only warps when the piece is too thin for the application (of course this could be said for virtually any material!). This is what allows aquariums to be built out of acrylic, and when acrylic aquariums first hit the market some indeed warped because they were constructed of too thin a material. I use 1/4" acrylic for my viv tops and although its only been 9 months there are literally zero signs of warping. Basically if you can't really bend the piece at the length it will be used (on a 12" piece for a viv for example) then the odds of it warping are very low.
> 
> Also for what its worth: when I got the lids cut at TAP plastics I had initially asked the guy for Lexan tops. When he asked me the application and why I wanted Lexan he said Lexan is actually is MORE warp prone than acrylic and that I would be much better off going with acrylic. I can't think of any reason he would steer me to the cheaper acrylic other than it is in fact preferable over Lexan for my application.


Please research this from more than one source. Just because one guy said so, does not make it true. Acrylic ABSOLUTELY warps with moisture. It will also warp with heat. If it is impossible to warp with heat, how do you think that an acrylic bow front is made? How do you think radius corner tanks are made? They lay a heat strip over it and bend it, thus warping it.
There is information all over the internet regarding acrylic absorbing moisture and warping.
Acrylic tanks want to warp. It is in the very nature of the material. What keeps them from warping are the other sides, and the top and bottom, holding them together and reinforcing them.
Obviously, the overall thickness will make a difference too, but to state that acrylic ONLY warps when it is too thin, is not correct. If this were true, can you explain why, if you put a piece of acrylic on top of a piece of eggcrate, and place them both on the sump of a reef tank, IT WARPS. There is NO light over it, and you cannot claim it is warping under its own weight, because it is full supported by the eggcrate. This happens in the coral reef hobby ALL THE TIME. 
Go to any coral reef store anywhere, and ask them if humidity will warp a flat piece of acrylic.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have a heavy scrap piece of 3/8" acrylic that I sometimes use as a fish tank lid and it warps just as much as the thin stuff.


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

glass is a mainstay.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Sorry, I can't help it.

I came. I saw. *I fixed his glass!!*


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I wish I could (easily) drill holes in glass.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Have you tried? I know, it sounds very intimidating, risky, and prone to a lot of breakage, but it's really quite simple. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/58594-how-drill-your-glass.html


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

hydrophyte said:


> I wish I could (easily) drill holes in glass.


It's not that bad, just takes some patience. If I did it, you can. Admittedly, my first attempt was on a 55 gallon... Whoops. Apparently they're tempered.... :screwy:


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for the input everybody! I wish there were more options in clear plastic sheet. 

Glass won't really work for this particular application.

I wish that my new tarantula could elicit this much response, she is a lot more fun than some crappy old plastic...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I am confused as to what you are needing, then. From your first post, I thought you were looking for just a flat piece for a lid. Your last post says that glass will not work.
I don't suppose you have a better description, or some pics of what needs done?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh, and she's umm...really cute. (shiver)


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks. I hope that I can keep her happy. I am a new tarantula hobbyist, but _Tapinauchenius_ are supposed to be pretty easy to keep with about the same care requirements as avics. 

For clear panels to cover enclosures I just use "strong" glass, which is a full 1/8" thick and stronger than regular window glazing. The nearby glass shop cuts it for me cheap.

I would like to find a clear plastic sheet that I can easily drill with numerous holes.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, I know nothing about spiders, but a bit about glass and acrylic.
You mention a lot of holes. Can I assume that that will mean that the inside humidity level is approximately the same as your room humidity level?
If the humidity levels are the same, acrylic should work out ok. I wouldn't try 1/8" acrylic, though. 1/4" might be a safer bet.

Alternatively, (and I'm assuming that the real goal here is a very well ventilated lid?), You could try a combination, half glass, half screen? http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63781-screen-vent-construction-how.html


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

At Philly we had some thicker acrylic lids that were manufactured by our maintence department. They were 3/8 thick and in two different spots had a one inch brace made from acylic running across the end horizontally and again half way to the hinge (it was hinged in the middle). They had multiple holes drilled drilled to supply air flow. The ones for the ten gallon tanks didn't warp at all, and there was only very slight warping in the ones for the 20 longs. 

Ed


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Tinctoc said:


> glass is a mainstay.


I was thinking the same thing... 

Can someone please explain why, for tank top applications, one would use lexan or acrylic over glass?


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