# keep pulling or let them do ther own thing?



## smitty (Jul 23, 2009)

hi every body.can any body tell me what im doing wrong or isit even me my blue auratus have laid 3 clutchs the first one was 10 eggs but only one developed an then died during hatching the last 2 clutchs mottled looking and im pretty sure there all bad but im leaving them in the incubator to make sure i keep my incubator at 77 degrees there is a fair amount of jelly on the eggs1/2inch past the clutch so they have been fertilized I have 2 pairs in a 20 long and short 2 coconut hides well planted im using herptivite and repcal at every feeding is that to much ther cage sometimes reachs84 degrees i know thats on the hot side for frogs but almost everybook ive read says its within reason.should iseperate them pairs i mean. this is there first season of breeding is this normal any ideas will help please!!!!!!!!! i also was using reptivite for a couple weeks when i ran out of herptivite could that do it??thanx alot any help much appreciated!!!


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## Malaki33 (Dec 21, 2007)

Smitty,

I myself do not know much about Aurastas but I have several groups of frogs Imitators breeding right now. I can tell you, since one of my groups are very young that it sometimes takes them a few cluches to "get it right" usually if the eggs aren't developing it's because the male did not do its job. I can also tell you that I have never used an incubator and have several tads rith now and 2 froglets, 77 degrees seems a bit high to me but I am no expert in the subject, I would do a test, think of it like an experiment, Next clutch you get try it without an incubator, Place the container or leaf that the frogs laid there eggs on and put it in a 190 oz (quarantine container) with some moist sphagum moss. Close the lid. Keep the egss moist but not submerged and I bet you will see better results!.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Did you say you used an incubator? If that correct theres no need. Just leave them in the viv...and usually the first few clutchs for a new pair of frogs may go bad. Sometimes it takes a little patience as the parenst get the hang of it , if you know what i mean.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I always pull my auratus eggs as soon as I see them females will eat other females eggs. To me 84 is hot, but someone else can confirm that. You do not need an incubator. Mine are in a closet and I spray them every day with tadpole tea to keep them moist. When my auratus first started laying I had some embryo issues thanks to Ed's advice to try to add different supplements (I added Repashy) and alternated it with my other supplements, in a short period of time had good embryos and good tads.
Good luck!
-Beth


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## smitty (Jul 23, 2009)

hi thanx for the info alot !! she laid another clutch of 3 today. im going to try these without the incubator.(usto breeding chameleons dragons frilled and bearded monkey tailed skinks ect.) im going by a book that jack wattley and william samples wrote about the temperature seeing he lived in florida like me i think? at the time. i know everybodys got ther own idea of whats right but please tell me if this is to hot it seemed it stimulate there breeding but like i said i dont know i also heard that the first several clutchs can be bad. am i over supplementing i feed everyday and supplement with repcal one day herptivite the next ? or am I just over doing as i read some of us do!!


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## smitty (Jul 23, 2009)

i forgot to say my incubator heats and cools keeps a steady temperature or i can program it for day/night differences i put them in there for we are having higher temps then norm for oct and with my lights in there viv it can reach 84 (even with air set at 76} its been in the 90,s here.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When you are giving us the cage temperature is that the temperature at the bottom of the cage or somewhere else in the cage? Is it after the lights have been on all day? If the temperature is staying 84 in the upper parts of the cage at the end of the day I would suspect that the conditions are cooler in the bottom area of the tank. 

It is not uncommon for frogs to take multiple clutches to get it right... so the best advice is be patient and don't worry too much about it yet. 

With the one that started development how long did it develop and what did it look like before it stopped developing? 

I would suggest adding a supplement that contains retinol/retinyl palmitate to your rotation (like the Repashy mentioned above, Dendrocare, Herpetal etc..) as that can help with embryodevelopment issues as many captive frogs are actually insufficiently supplemented with vitamin A as retinol/retinyl palmitate. 

With respect to pulling them or leaving them, how soon after they are laid are you pulling them? Some people have better success if they are left with the adults for at least a day or two and some people don't pull at all (personally I think everyone should let thier frogs do this at least now and then to make sure we aren't breeding the ability to parental rear from the gene pool..) 

Ed


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

Give them a chance to get it right. It may take a few clutches. Your temps. are too high also. Bring them down to the low to mid 70s. The eggs can be hatched without an "incubator". Just leave them in the petri dishes with a little water and they should be fine if they were good to begin with. Don't give up on them. They will come around. It's also common for the tads to start to develop and then die before hatching. Again just mewbe parents.


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## smitty (Jul 23, 2009)

thanx for all the help i have< dropped the temperature down and im ordering repashy today. There in a 55 long and 84 is the hotest its usually gets, 78 at one end. closer to the ground is probably cooler ill have to get a smaller thermometer for that . thanks everbody!!! i wouldnt dream of givin up !!!!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stingfrog said:


> Give them a chance to get it right. It may take a few clutches. Your temps. are too high also. Bring them down to the low to mid 70s. The eggs can be hatched without an "incubator". Just leave them in the petri dishes with a little water and they should be fine if they were good to begin with. Don't give up on them. They will come around. It's also common for the tads to start to develop and then die before hatching. Again just mewbe parents.


If the temp middle to upper levels of a 55 are 84 at the warm end and 78 F at the cooler end, then I wouldn't change the temperatures until he knows what is going on at ground level. In taller tanks it is easy to get the bottoms too cool if you are only measuring the temperature in one location. Cage temperatures should be taken in multiple locations. 

In an exhibit at work, the frogs have a temperature range that runs from 74 F at the bottom further from the lights to over 100 F (granted it is over 3.5 feet tall) at the top directly under the lights. While the dart frogs do not use the area directly under the lights, I have temp gunned Dendropsophus ebraccatus post heavy feedings selecting perches where the temps would get over 95 F.... 
It is way better to let the animals have a range of temperatures and let them select thier operating niches than to attempt to manipulate them into a tight corner in the name of optimizing visibility/productivity. 

Ed


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm definitely no expert, but all I can suggest is BREATHE, and RELAX. It took 4 or 5 clutches (I got discouraged and stopped counting) til I got viable Tads, and still haven't gotten a froglet out of mine. Hopefully that news will change, as I have one thriving, two surviing, and two potential tads now, with a clutch of embryos and another clutch in the tank I haven't pulled yet. With two pair, I'm sure in short order, you'll be hoping they take a break. 

Best of luck, and remember to RELAX. They'll make babies eventually. PDF's did fine for thousands(? when DID they first come about???) of years, it's US who screwed them all up.


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## smitty (Jul 23, 2009)

thanx ed i left it the same and it was 72 ground level (used probe)i thought a thermal gradient would be good and i see them frequently in the warmer parts during the day! thanx everybody for all the help!


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