# Termites



## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

I am happy to announce that I am now legally able to ship termites.Nationwide everything will be up and running in July.
later frogger's


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## fishy332003 (Feb 15, 2004)

do you have a website?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

This is a good thing from where I sit in the stands.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Eggcellent :wink:


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

No website yet but I am working o n all that as we speak.
thanks


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Are you able to ship to all states? I know a couple that have some very serious regulations.... like california.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

How many states did you have to get permits for?

Kerokero: True, but CA also has a pretty large list of insects exempt from needing a USDA permit to ship into/within the state. I haven't checked on termites but although it states beneficial insects at least a few pests or on the list(probably to make the job of laboratories easier). It also includes a few of almost sole interest to the pet trade(madagascar hissing roaches, 2 large saturniid moths). So I think CA is pretty lax compared to AZ, TN, FL etc.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

All states it depended on the species that I culture.And it was very difficult getting thing's this far.But it will be worth it


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Thing's are going great a small glitch someone contacted florida usda regarding shipping t-mite's out of state and caused a delay(thanks to whomever felt the need to piss on someone else's parade all I can say is karma is a bitch? .But everything is go and everyone is happy(usda).
I will post prices soon and shipping rate's.
Thank's


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Good to hear, though its not that hard to collect, it is hard to find land where you wont be escorted off by the cops lately...


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Damp wood or dry wood?


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Damp Wood


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

That's Good :wink:


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2007)

Niice. Way to go Trow!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Getting approval from the APHIS branch of the USDA is a good start but do you have the permits from those states that consider this termite to be an injurious plant pest? (such as West Virginia (see http://www.wvagriculture.org/images/Pla ... %20Act.pdf ) or Virginia (http://leg1.state.va.us//cgi-bin/legp50 ... 1-188.31C1). 

Many states require permits in addition to those of USDA. 

Also what about the USDA's requirement that the reciever should have the APHIS permits (see thier FAQ). 

Ed


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Areyou located in Florida?


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

The species I am propagating are native in this country.I am not getting into how I have gone about this considering someone has already been snooping I assume to try and mimic what I have accomplished.If people don't want them that is fine but why on earth would someone try and hinder something that is legal and will help your frog's in the end.
later 

I am in florida,ryan


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

trow said:


> The species I am propagating are native in this country.I am not getting into how I have gone about this considering someone has already been snooping I assume to try and mimic what I have accomplished.If people don't want them that is fine but why on earth would someone try and hinder something that is legal and will help your frog's in the end.
> later
> 
> I am in florida,ryan


One of the last vendors that was publicly offering them had the same thing happen (someone tipped off the authorities, and termites were no longer available through that person).
This was a couple years back.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

I have everything I need to sell them legally.I understand the concern although unfounded in my case.I have spoken with many other branch's of the usda in other state's and their concern's were with invasive species(formosan) which I am not selling.The species I breed are native to USA all of it


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "The species I am propagating are native in this country.I am not getting into how I have gone about this considering someone has already been snooping I assume to try and mimic what I have accomplished.If people don't want them that is fine but why on earth would someone try and hinder something that is legal and will help your frog's in the end. 
later "endsnip

Its not legal if you don't have the permits from the various states that require thier own permits in addition to those supplied by APHIS.... 
Whether or not the termites are already native to those states doesn't matter if the insect is considered a plant pest. I listed two states that have regulations either in conjunction with or on top of the APHIS permits. A quick search around via google has found several other states that require permits to import injurious insects into those states.... 

You also chose to not answer the question about APHIS requiring the person recieving the termites to have a permit... 

Have you considered that the person "snooping" may be making sure that if they purchase termites from you they won't get into trouble? Or have you considered that your post may have been picked up by software for the USDA looking for possible illegal sales? If you believe that the site doesn't get some level of scrutiny by at least USF&W, you are kidding yourself.. 

Ed


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Actually the person who snooped is someone on this board and post quite often,It's not important who did it I choose not to say.
I have read your document's and many other's and spoke to quite a few official's regarding this matter.There are plenty of loophole's to get through regarding plant pest's and I found it 8) 
You are kidding yourself if you think that I haven't looked into this and if the usfw services are looking so be it I have what I need legal as can be buddy endsnip.


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## fishy332003 (Feb 15, 2004)

if it's legal to sell or buy.i say why not. it give this hobby a another food option to use.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> You also chose to not answer the question about APHIS requiring the person recieving the termites to have a permit...


I don't think the shipper is responsible for that.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

trow said:


> Actually the person who snooped is someone on this board and post quite often,It's not important who did it I choose not to say.
> I have read your document's and many other's and spoke to quite a few official's regarding this matter.There are plenty of loophole's to get through regarding plant pest's and I found it 8)
> You are kidding yourself if you think that I haven't looked into this and if the usfw services are looking so be it I have what I need legal as can be buddy endsnip.


I believe Ed is simply trying to be sure you have all of your bases covered and pointing out any pitfalls you make, there is no need to get hostile, please.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

It all depend's on what your intended use for the termite's are with regard's to the the receiver needing permit's .Ed I am sure has all my best intention's in mind.But so do I.I have spent alot of time and money to get where I am.Both of which I don't have alot of.
Thank's


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Well on another note, I don't know that much about termites, what species will you be selling and is it a small enough food source to be able to feed thumbnails?


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## jmoose (Jun 21, 2006)

Corpus Callosum said:


> Well on another note, I don't know that much about termites, what species will you be selling and is it a small enough food source to be able to feed thumbnails?


and .... (I don't know nothing about termites :lol: )
Do they need a queen to establish colony ?
Do they produce fliers ?
Are their fangs strong enough to injure frogs ?
How prolific is your specie ?

I am very interested in adding termites as a feeder
Thanks for your effort


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

I feed all my frog's termite's including thumb's. No they will not produce alate's right away it can take up to ten year's for that to occur.


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## Steve (Apr 8, 2006)

As long as it's not going to get ANYONE in trouble, i'm all for it.

I tried searching for them here in Nevada to no joy, so i called some termite control companies. They were great with me until i explained i wanted them and not rid of them, most thought i was insane and hung up, some were down right rude and a couple thought they were on the radio and a prank call.... hence no termites for me!

Regards

Steve


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Steve,


You have termites in Vegas... you need to check the empty lots and some of the desert areas after a rain. The termites will come up and cover dead wood and grass with mud tubes. (at least this is how I used to find them when I lived in Henderson). Once you locate the tubes you can try some traps. 

Ed


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## Steve (Apr 8, 2006)

Oh cool, thanks Ed.

Unfortunatly rain is one of the few things we haven't had much of in the last few years but i will keep a look out when/if the rains come. Did you ever get up to mount charleston? i'm not sure what temps termites will go down to but it averages 70-80 deg up there in the summer and higher humidity.. there is also a lot of deadfall from the forests.. does that sound like a possible termite stomping ground?

Regards

Steve

P.S sorry to temporarily hijack the thread.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Steve,

I did get up there a couple of times but was too young to look for termites at that time. 
There are termites there. Check out the abstract http://www.bioone.org/perlserv/?request ... -8746(2007)100%5B206%3ARIRIAM%5D2.0.CO%3B2 


Ed


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

How come certain people are so quick to point out all the "illegalities" of this idea to trow after he already said he has all the bases covered and everything is legal rather than thank and congratulate him for what sounds like a lot of hard work? If he has looked into it and found a loophole or a way to do this legally, why the barrage of critiques and suggestions he is full of sh*t and isn't on the up and up? The guy is doing a service, has researched and checked the legality with the appropriate authorities, and sounds like he has permits. How bout let's be positive for once instead of always trying to point out the negative and rain on somebody's parade...


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Well put Stace.


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## Marty71 (Nov 9, 2006)

Personally I appreciate trow's efforts but I also appreciate the concern others have voiced. Ever since this topic started I have found thousands of termites in my yard which I have been feeding on and off to my frogs. That being said, I will be one of the first to place an order. I want to learn how an expert cultures them, see his methods, and reward him for his work. 

Since nobody else is offering them it must have taken a hell of a lot of work and research to get to this point. However, I don't think there is a need or a reason for trow or anyone else to come out swinging anytime a concern is raised. Politely say you've addressed them and move on. When you are talking about an insect that potentially could land a buyer in hot water, it's not unfair to ask questions. Right?


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> Since nobody else is offering them it must have taken a hell of a lot of work and research to get to this point.


It does take a lot of work and even more time to do it. There are other places that sell termites. Carolina Biological does. So, it is possible, but it a lot of work and time which it appears Trow has done. I hope he can keep up with demand...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "loophole or a way to do this legally, why the barrage of critiques and suggestions he is full of sh*t and isn't on the up and up? The guy is doing a service, has researched and checked the legality with the appropriate authorities, and sounds like he has permits."endsniop

Trow stated that he has the permits from APHIS (USDA) which handles the federal end for his shipping of the termites however this doesn't mean that it is legal under some of the state laws to ship into the various states (even if the USDA branch in that state recognizes the permits) as the states have the right to pass legislation ontop of the federal permits. 

I had/have concerns that either Trow or some of the people who aquire termites from him would end up in violation of the state law if they shipped into those states. 

If you think that this concern is someone busting on Trow's hard work, then I think you have the priority wrong. I think that not questioning it and potentially allowing someone to get in trouble with the law over it just so some people can get termites shipped to them is a bigger issue as this causes the various agencies involved to make rules preventing further transactions along those lines even if you disregard the potential problems from the violations. 


Ed


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Ed's concern's are valid there are so many thing's that have to be seen inspected so on and so forth.I know exactly why people have given up or simply moved to something else less taboo.But I am not giving up this will help alot of people within our frog community as well as gecko's,chameleon's,fish etc. To be honest I am worried about keeping up with demand but I will break my back to try and keep up.
thank's


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I hope you can meet demand and can supply people with the termites. Also don't forget that you should also be able to market to schools like the Biosupply companies. 

Ed


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Ironically ed a few zoo's or people representing them I should say have contacted me regarding them. :shock:


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Zoos are into different food sources provided that the insects can be provided on a routine basis and are as free from parasites as possible (some Zoos are more restrictive than this on others) and can be supplied legally. 
There are a number of animals out there for which termites are a staple diet and we do not have good substitutions worked out for them (like fairy armadillos) and they can be used as a good enrichment item. 

Ed


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## Herpboyben (Mar 18, 2007)

he said he had the proper permits so why dont you just get off his case?


Ben


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## Marty71 (Nov 9, 2006)

^ Think everybody worked it out and now most of us are eagerly awaiting the ability to buy termites. No need to bring it back to square one.

Never thought i'd say eagerly awaiting to buy and termites in the same sentence....


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## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

Hey, this is great! I can't wait for some termites (never though I'd say that haha). Trow, don't leave us hanging! :wink: Keep it up, and definitely let us know. 

Good work so far and good luck!


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

I haven't forgot you guy's I am so swamped with work ,the past few week's have darn near killed me.I still am getting thing's wrapped up including getting approval from other state's.Dont worry I never leave a man(or woman down. 8)


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Ok so thing's are going slower than I figured in a few state's I have had to have a few more inspection's and I am up to my ear's in work.Thanks for all who have been so patient.
trow


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Some good and bad new's anyone in florida can get termite's right now but until all permit's are aquired from other state's I will not be shipping out of state yet and I emphasize yet.I will post price's and shipping rate's within the week.

I will be able to send them out of state but as mentioned before it's taking alot longer than I hoped sorry for the trouble as I know alot of you want some and you will get them but not at the moment I expect october thing's will be on track permit wise.
Thanks
I do not have a website but I am trying to get one pm me with question's etc.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hey Trow,

Sorry to hear about the hassel. 

Ed


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## RBroskie (Jan 21, 2007)

awesome, im in jacksonville and looking forward to getting some termites!


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Anything worth doing isnt easy I alway's say. :lol:


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## stevemc (Aug 13, 2007)

PM me. I live in Sarasota, Florida. I assume these are wet wood termites. I used to feed my frogs almost excusively termites. Best food, bar none. I cannot find any now, as the place I got them from used poison. Let me know how much for how many. And where are you located? Steve in Sarasota.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Price per culture is 15.00 per thousand plus shipping.You will get a mix of all stages except alate's.I tried to seperate into size's not gonna happen way to time consuming.The overage is quite a bit considering it is near impossible to count them individ.Anyone from florida can pm me and order now the rest of you october is when I can ship to you.
trow


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