# husbandry procedures



## Darren Meyer (May 22, 2004)

With out getting into the whys I'll just list what I do , everyone is different so I'd like to see how much or little we all really do . 
New tanks ... I wash out w/ a mild soap ans hot water and rinse throughly .
Substrate . Boil the water and re hydrate cocco fiber w/ boiling water to kill off all parasites and or pathogens .
Plants , I wash as carfully as possble roots and all leaves w/ warm water and a mild bleach solution , rinse throughly ,then wash again :roll: 
Water. I use R/O w/ some methaline blue 

Frogs ... all are quarantened for 30-60 days depending on source w/c or c/b . 
Fecals on w/c not on c/b .
Treatment on all frogs including panacure and or Metronidazole, the latter if needed because of weight or not feeding .
The whole collection gets a good dose if panacur dusted ff's every 60 days . Juvis ,once before I send them out .
Everyday . Wash hands throughly before reaching into tanks to check for eggs ect . Use hand sanatizer first then soap and water. For 15 seconds or so .
Tools, sissors ect...... are all washed ,w/ either bleach and water then rinsed throughly.
This mind you is just what I do for the general health of my collection . There are alot more little things that are of no real importiant value to go into . 
So how exreame are you ?
Rubber gloves , trash , take your frogs out and let them visit the neighbor frogs, wash don't wash ect .....
This ought to be interesting .
Happy frogging , 
Darren Meyer


----------



## defaced (May 23, 2005)

This is an interesting topic, I just hope it doesn't become a war. 

Tanks: good rinse with the hottest water from my tap (+120F)

Wood, plants, rocks: wash with cold water to remove any loose dirt. Plants get their roots completely stripped of the soil they came with if it includes perlite/foam.

Daily care: RO or spring water for misting via misting system. Flies get dusted and dumped in. If I have to put my hands in the tank to do any maintaince, I wash my hands before and after. 

New frogs get quarantened until I'm satisfied that they're eating and adjusted from moving, or their tank is ready for them. Same will go if I get some WC frogs, but I'll add a fecal exam to that and any needed treatment. 

I handle my frogs only when necessary, usually for moving them or examining them for any reason. I might thouch one frog a month, if that. When I have to, I wash my hands with soap then I wet my hands with water from their tank if possible other wise I use RO to wet my hands. 

I'll only treat frogs with drugs that actually have a need for them. 

More as I think of it.


----------



## Guest (May 13, 2006)

I always wash tanks with hot water, 
Plants get washed in water, and put in my tap water, which is chock full of chlorine. I'm afraid of using ammonia on plants. Epiphytic orchids dont get messed with. They are like the frogs themselves.
Frogs get quarintined in a rather plain 10 gallon tank, for about two weeks or until Im satisfied that they are moving around well, have good color lol, and are eating nicely.
I don't tend to add new frogs to preexisting colonies becuase I just dont have that many frogs.
As far as medicine goes, my poor frogs are in the dark ages of health care. But only cuase I'm new to the hobby. If any of my pampas toads ever falls sick I'll be raiding the pharmacies. When I get PDF's I hope to have the know how so I know what to do with a sick frog.
I always wash my hands before and after reaching into a tank. I virtually NEVER touch them, gloves or no gloves. I only touch them if I need to move them or they need a little help.
Frogs are fed every other day, misted with distilled water, and viv is watered with bottled spring water.
Vitamin calcium mix is used every other feeding.
Should I mix at the same time, or should I alternate?


----------



## sirfugu (Sep 7, 2004)

I think this is a good topic we all need to discuss. I know we all get into a rhythm and dont really think about our husbandry because we just go with what has worked for us.

tanks: Tanks get the hose outside and then wiped clean. If a tank has already been used I will use a vinegar water mixture to clean it and rinse and wiped down many times.

plants: Again they get hosed clean of any soil or perlite balls. Then I rinse them in tap water, dry them, and spray them with distilled water that I use for my frogs. Wood, rocks, etc. get boiled a couple times and rinsed a couple times.

frogs: Fed every other day for adults, every day for babies. Misted almost daily. If I move frogs I use those small one ounce cup and persuade them to hop in with the nudge of a plastic spoon. I've never used any medicines with my frogs because I never needed to. I've never quarantened, I build the tank and toss them in because all of my frogs have come from the same source at the same time. From now on I will be quarantening frogs in large sterlite containers because they are becoming more expensive.


----------



## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Darren's procedure pretty much sums up my SOP. Everything that goes in any tank get bleached, boiled, baked, or a combination of the 3. I always use gloves when working in an enclosure. If I'm trimming back overgrowth, I use a single edge razorblade which is tossed out afterward. All frogs QT'd for at least a month, with 3 fecals run during that period.


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Similar to above.

Any enclosure that sees frogs is brand new. If I trade frogs, that enclosure is scrapped. I will generally use the tank for something else (not frog related), or give it away (or just pile it up on my porch as several are now).

I tend to bake the products being put into vivs (wood products). 

I don't use gloves between tanks, but I do use alcohol hand-wash solution (Purel)

Frogs generally go through a 30 day quarantine in temporary enclosures (Glad containers) - but I will place frogs directly into a new enclosure from only a few breeders that I have received healthy frogs in the past.

Dane - I really like the idea of using Razor blades to trim the plants in the tank.


----------



## Ed Martin (Mar 25, 2004)

This is a good thread Darren…… I think that threads like this really help spur discussion and are not to say that someone practices are better or worse than any others. 

Here is what I do :

New enclosures : I wash out with soap and hot water and rinse several times. Then let water stand in them for a couple days (I’ve had leaks) then let air dry.

Re-used enclosures : I wash out with soap and hot water, wash with mild bleach solution and wash with alchohol and then rinse rinse several times. Then then let air dry.

Substrate: Aged tap to re-hydrate coco fiber, boil bark, leaves and the rest of the ingredients. Throw out old substrate. Boil old leca. 

Bark, rocks, clay pots, cocohuts: boil. Tried bleach once…. Anyone want some white coco huts??? 

Plants: just wash with soap carefully,. 

Water: I use RO with some Kent for tads and tank ponds, straight RO for misting. 

Frogs: all are quarantined for 60-90 days usually 90 sometimes more depending on source and fecal results which are done on all frogs. 
Treatment has included using panacure and or Metronidazole.

Wash hands with purel before working in any tank or moving from one to another. 

Clean tools with alcohol

I think that’s about it. 
Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I would suggest skipping the soap part. Soaps leave residues (the surfactants which have caused losses in amphibians in institutions). 

Ed


----------



## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Are they always left? I ask because I'm really obcessive about my hands being completely rinsed after I use soap, until the point where I can't feel any slipperiness and then I still rinse more. This is more of a general interest question than anything.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

In actuality yes there is always a residue left from the surfactants. However if you rinse multiple times, you can reduce the levels to a point where it won't affect the frogs. If the tank is kept moist for a couple of days, microbes will readily break down the soap residue (microbes love soaps). 

Ed


----------



## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

Darren how dare you! You son of a ..........................Good topic maker!

I rinse my tanks with a weak 5-10% bleach solution.

Bake all my cocofiber

Boil all my wood. 

I use a weak alcohol bath for all my plants.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

This is an interesting topic...keep it up guys!

For all those who use soap/hand sanitizer/bleach for sterilizing(I'm especially interested in hands) ar you worried about whether it is toxic? I'd imagine the second one wouldn't be very good for the frogs.


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Tanks: Fill up with scalding water (hottest that will come out of the faucet). Do this a few times, then wipe clean. Used tanks I use 10% bleach bath in combo with the hot water.

Substrate: Never reused. Rehydrate with normal water (now going to start using boiling water)

Plants: Always washed thoroughly with warm water. Try to get off all dirt and wash away any pesticides/ferts etc.

Water: Distilled for misting. Spring + tad tea for tads. Spring for film canisters and broms.

Frogs: QT for 30-60 days until eating well and no problems. W/C will get panacured and possibly fecaled.

Hands: Wash hands with antibac soap and then rinsed a million times. Also use alcohol-based antibac sanitizer after (Purell).

Handling: Only when necessary, sometimes for picture if necessary (sexing, health records etc.) Make sure to have very wet hands and keep frog moist.

Luke


----------



## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

ok alot of you guys are way more anal than i am(not a bad thing just an observation), please note when your reading this when i started the hobby last year i had minimal room and the water that came out of the tap would have likely killed frogs, we didnt use it for anything but showering and hauled RO water for drinking, cooking, animals and plants. i have moved into a new house in the last couple weeks with ALOT better water and some of my procedures will probably change.

Tanks: new wipe them out with hot water, havent reused a tank yet though the bleach solution is a given

soil: is rinsed cause i normally rinse my peat and stuff for my carnivorous plants anyways, some of these are more picky about conditions than my frogs

rocks, plants and wood: rinsed off with room temp water. 

handleing: i dont atleast if i can help it. when i have to move frogs i use a clean glass and herd the frog into it when possible. i havent touched frogs, or rather they have touched me. my Hyla's that are in with my tincs have a bad habit of trying to jump out and they have landed on me. lil buggers could comfortably sit on one of my finger nails and they arent the least bit scared of me. havent had to touch my darts or Mantellas other than catching a few of the laevi's to lower the density of frogs in their tank and with these i used a cup and herded them into it without an issue


----------



## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Great topic Darren! It’s also very nice to see that the comments on other’s procedures have been kept to a minimum.

New Tanks: Washed with 71% isopropyl alcohol and then rinsed with hot water. 71% isopropyl is my standard sterilizer for non living things. This is because mycobacteria have been my nemesis in fish keeping for at least 20 years. Mycobacteria are resistant to bleaching.

I’ve always got a pair of latex gloves on when I’m in the fish/frog room and anytime I move to a new situation the gloves get changed. If I’m working with liquids (cleaning the bottom of a quarantine container), I’m double gloved. If I’m sticking my arm in a viv I’ve got one of those cheap arm gloves on with a latex glove over my hand. Salmonella is my primary concern here. I don’t want any weird serotypes infecting my family. Before leaving the fish room I use hand sanitizer on my hands and arms and then head for the shower. Fish/Frogroom cloths are washed separately with pinesol. These procedures will be relaxed when my kids turn 5. Until then I’m insanely clean when it comes to my animals.

So far I have purchased all of the wood that I’ve used in my vivs. I just leave this stuff to sit around dry for a few weeks prior to using it. The same goes for PrimeAgra, my puffed clay ball of choice. 

Plants all get a 10 minute soak in 10% household bleach. I’ve been told that this percentage is too high so I will probably reduce it next time around. 

Moss doesn’t take bleaching well so I’m going to try keeping it in a 90 degree aquarium for a week and then treating it with flubendozol ( a more soluble form of fenbendazol) for a few days. The thinking here is that the heat treatment will do away with Chydrids and the flubendazol will do away with nematodes. I don’t treat dry sphagnum. If it’s dry I figure it’s O.K. 

Food animals are handled prior to caring for fish and frogs. Quarantined animals are handled last.

Quarantine lasts three months or more. I haven’t lost a frog in a viv yet, but when this happens the viv will most likely be tossed and any other frogs in the viv will be treated with appropriate medicines. I treat all incoming frogs with Pancure, once a week for three weeks, and then ivermectin, once a week for three weeks. During the worming process I wipe down the inside of the quarantine container with a wet and then a dry paper towel every two or three days. I also periodically throw away the quarantine containers and replace them during the last weeks of ivermectin treatment.

The only time I handle frogs is when they fly from their homes. Escapees are chased into a paper cup and then rinsed with aged tap. This is done by flattening the top of the cup to keep the frog in, and pouring the water through a small opening on either side.

The inside glass of the vivs is cleaned with a magnet cleaner. I design my vivs with ponds in the front so that I can dip the magnet cleaner in the pond from time to time.


----------



## npaull (May 8, 2005)

I'm almost word-for-word the same as Darks!de (Luke), with one notable exception (different not just from Darks!de, but from most other posters): I never use chemicals on my hands before reaching into a tank. I'll rinse them, but I'm way more concerned about the chemical residues on my hands than I am about any potential pathogens. My personal view is that these frogs are vastly less able to deal with even a little bit of bleach, alcohol, soap, or antibiotic than they are at dealing with common microbes, with which most of our tanks are swarming anyways. 

I'm neurotic about boiling my leaf litter to kill off potential pests, and I'll bake/boil etc other habitat items if I feel they are suspect, but I usually don't do more than wash/scrub wood, because I want moss spores to survive if they are on the wood I'm using.


----------



## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Oh yea, I bake my leaf litter as well. I also don’t collect it form the ground. I pick dead oak leaves at a local county park where the curator knows me.


----------



## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

> I'm neurotic about boiling my leaf litter to kill off potential pests, and I'll bake/boil etc other habitat items if I feel they are suspect, but I usually don't do more than wash/scrub wood, because I want moss spores to survive if they are on the wood I'm using.


Personally, I think this is an all or nothing situation. There's really no point in sterilizing some wild collected items, and not others. If moss spores can survive on the surface, so can Chytrid and other nasties


----------



## npaull (May 8, 2005)

I respect your opinion.

Personally, I think most sterilization is probably pointless, given the fact that our cages are not sterile environments in general, and are doubtlessly repopulated by bacteria shortly after setup. Quite aside from the fact that excrement is minimally cleaned from most cages, most of the time...

I'm neurotic about boiling leaf litter because I want to kill macrofauna (pest insects, slugs, snails, centipedes, etc) not because of bacterial concerns.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "Personally, I think this is an all or nothing situation. There's really no point in sterilizing some wild collected items, and not others. If moss spores can survive on the surface, so can Chytrid and other nasties"

Moss spores will survive a through drying while chytrid will not. Some nematode eggs are also sensitive to dessication. 

snip "Personally, I think most sterilization is probably pointless, given the fact that our cages are not sterile environments in general, and are doubtlessly repopulated by bacteria shortly after setup. Quite aside from the fact that excrement is minimally cleaned from most cages, most of the time..."

This is true for bacterial pathogens as many will rapidly repopulate the enclosure however protazoal pathogens, some worms, and chytrid can all be prevented through the use of clean materials. However, in general, I would prevent chytrid from entering the enclosures and monitor for most of the other items via fecals. 

Ed


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I have not seen nuking brought up in this thread. I've heard both sides of it will kill anything to does almost nothing. The nuke is dried leaves that I keep in a box in the basement. I nuke them just for the heck of it before adding them to a tank. Mainly to kill off any bugs that might be on them, though ive caught a spider or 2 that has made it through 2-3 mins in the microwave.

Now on the other hand I use virosan and or bleach when cleaning out old tanks, and containers. I also use virosan on plants before adding them to a tank. They also get rinsed off very well after this.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I sterilize plants with a mild bleach dip and rinse well. I dry leaf litter thoroughly and put it in the oven set at 275 degrees for about 20 min.

I also bleach buckets/cleaning equipment from time to time. I generally do not sterilize a coco brick once rehydrated...except perhaps dry it out thoroughly before putting into a new tank if its been sitting in a bucket for a while. 

I also change substrate/leaf litter periodically and wipe down the walls of any algae scum.

I mist my tanks once a day or every other day with some dechlorinated tap water and I pick up fresh droppings of my tinc's with a spoon when I see it.


----------



## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Wanted to add something to this that I've been doing for the past several months. I use disposable plastic cups as dusting containers for frogs in QT. One cup per enclosure, I fill a main cup with flies/powder, swish them around, then portion them out to the individual quarantine cups, so that nothing comes into contact with the primary cup. I've also been using a change of gloves when feeding quarantine frogs. It was getting too expensive to use latex, so I started using poly gloves made for food handling. Costco sells 2000 for about $10, and Smart and Final carries them, but at 500 for $8.


----------

