# Cost of commercial FF media



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I've been rotating NEHerp media, Josh's media, and Superfly, so I decided to figure out how much a cx worth of each FF media costs. Calculations were based on the amount of media I have figured out works well for me in each cx, and don't include shipping costs, since those are variable and can be offset by other products in an online order, free shipping deals, buying at shows or locally, etc.

NEHerp: one cx takes 40g of media. Five pounds (2270G) costs $32.49. Each cx uses $0.57 worth of media. I also add ~10ml apple cider vinegar and a sprinkle of bakers yeast to my NEHerp cxs, since the NEHerp media doesn't produce well for me without it. I haven't figured out the cost of those products, though I'd estimate around five cents. NEHerp also offers larger quantities of media; buying twice the amount brings the price down less than 15% (to $0.51 per cx).

Josh's: one cx takes 50g of media. Three pounds (1362g) of media costs $15. Each cx uses $0.55 worth of media. Twelve pounds (5448g) costs $55, so each cx would cost $0.50.

Superfly: one cx uses 30g of media. I bought a 500g trial container for $15; each cx uses $0.90 worth of media. Next time, I'll buy a 3kg jar for $45; each cx will use $0.45 worth of media.

So:

NEHerp -- $0.57 (or $0.51 in bulk)
Josh's -- $0.55 (or $0.50 in bulk)
Superfly -- $0.90 (or $0.45 in bulk)

No real moral to this; I just thought it to be useful info, and wanted an excuse to figure it out for myself.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

If I could "double like" this, I would. 

I've been reluctant to switch to SuperFly because it seems more expensive, but I know the directions call for less media per culture. Strong work, my friend!


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I've been rotating NEHerp media, Josh's media, and Superfly, so I decided to figure out how much a cx worth of each FF media costs. Calculations were based on the amount of media I have figured out works well for me in each cx, and don't include shipping costs, since those are variable and can be offset by other products in an online order, free shipping deals, buying at shows or locally, etc.
> 
> NEHerp: one cx takes 40g of media. Five pounds (2270G) costs $32.49. Each cx uses $0.57 worth of media. I also add ~10ml apple cider vinegar and a sprinkle of bakers yeast to my NEHerp cxs, since the NEHerp media doesn't produce well for me without it. I haven't figured out the cost of those products, though I'd estimate around five cents. NEHerp also offers larger quantities of media; buying twice the amount brings the price down less than 15% (to $0.51 per cx).
> 
> ...


Thank you for this its definitely useful. I am currently using a homemade recipe but I am waffling on whether I should switch to superfly at some point. My goal was to create a nutritious fly with a homemade recipe. This is pretty costly as it turns out. One issue I ran into that I think is present elsewhere is that the nutrition in these recipes goes down with time. Superfly supplemented with super pig might be pretty awesome stuff but only for like 6 months or so, after that its nutritional value is going to go down since the carotenoid components (at least) are only rated for that time period. I was originally planning to just buy the 105oz jar but when I ran the calculations assuming I made 1 culture a week I wouldn't use up that media for like 2 years. This means that I would need to be buying the 17 oz jar and then the cost per culture is more then a dollar. More then 2 dollars if you add superpig. If I had more frogs then it would become cheaper. But there is only sooo much space in my house ;P

Edit: took me a while to find it but I mention superpig due to this old post by Allen Repashy. The study he is referring to is linked here.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Thanks @Socratic Monologue for this

Another option:
Biodude fruit fly mix: $29.95 for 4lbs. Makes 40 cultures per the instructions. Cost per culture: $0.75


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Broseph said:


> I've been reluctant to switch to SuperFly because it seems more expensive, but I know the directions call for less media per culture.


Well, it is really expensive in the smaller jar. The larger jar makes 100 cultures, and even with my usage of three cxs/week, I'm not actually going to use this all up in six months. I'll bet my roach cultures would eat it.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Well, it is really expensive in the smaller jar. The larger jar makes 100 cultures, and even with my usage of three cxs/week, I'm not actually going to use this all up in six months. I'll bet my roach cultures would eat it.


Isopods will eat it too


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## xdfireguy (Jun 23, 2020)

I just finished reading the 8 page Superfly thread from when it was being trialed. I am definitely sold on it. It was interesting to read all of the reactions to how much less volume was needed per culture. Definitely a good read if anyone wants to learn more.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/67766-repashy-superfly.html

ETA: My original thought: I really thought the price per portion was going to be higher. Thanks for breaking that down!


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## Ravage (Feb 5, 2016)

I kind of did this a while back, just for my own edification. I marked cultures on the lid of a 3kg Superfly jug as i used it. I measured my cups with the included measurer. I did not weigh it out. I wouldn't reckon many folks would, because I would definitely fall into that "whip out the gram scale" category, but I still use the measuring scoops for ease.
I got 82 cultures out of 3kg. That's 36.5 grams a culture. Or, $0.548 each. Not a big difference, but I would tend to think that if most folks use the scoops, then this type of variability should be expected. It could also be expected for other varieties as well; but I've only tried Josh's mix, and Dart Frog Connection mix (which Taron turned me on to at a show). I use between 9 and 12 kg of Superfly a year. I also use the calciums and vitamins, and bug burger and Soylent green (in rotation for tadpoles). So, I order a lot, and that effectively saves on shipping. 
I think the best part of this thread is that it helps people get over the 'sticker shock' of these mediums (fly pudding, as I like to call them). Remember when you bought flies at the LPS? "Did you say: $9/ culture? ???"


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Ravage said:


> I measured my cups with the included measurer. I did not weigh it out. I wouldn't reckon many folks would, because I would definitely fall into that "whip out the gram scale" category, but I still use the measuring scoops for ease.


Lest anyone think I'm more high-strung than is obvious from my posts, I use 15ml and 45ml portion cups (I use them for all sorts of feeding/measuring tasks) and measure by volume when I make the cxs; I got out the gram scale today only in the interest of science.

I do measure pretty precisely, though.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

I ran the numbers a few years ago just as you did and factored in containers and lids into the cost. Superfly all the way for me. I buy in bulk.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

varanoid said:


> containers and lids into the cost.


I wash and reuse, so the purchase cost amortized over the many uses is near zero.

Actually, the one thing holding me back from Superfly is the obscenely overengineered packaging. I cry a little every time I throw that stuff away.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

It was Splendid to read Allen Rapashy on his good stuff. 

Luckily I was convinced early here to give Rapashy a full on try by Socrates Monologue. 

Im glad I did, and one of these days Id like to make a little report on what I see are some noticeable effects - all good - with my small anuran tribe, as well as my life being made easier by being able to trust all components of a product. 

It also goes to show a shiny outcome of what could have been a wrong way rub to one of those debate thangs, that instead formed a different view in someone (me) and Im grateful for it.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I wash and reuse, so the purchase cost amortized over the many uses is near zero.
> 
> Actually, the one thing holding me back from Superfly is the obscenely overengineered packaging. I cry a little every time I throw that stuff away.


I applaud you and everyone else for that matter who recycles their cups. I look myself in the mirror and have to admit I am lazy in that respect.

The big tub is pretty overengineered haha. But not worries about it puncturing or popping open and making a huge mess. My girlfriend has an art studio and always has use for a lot of my "trash", she can probably find a use for it.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Actually, the one thing holding me back from Superfly is the obscenely overengineered packaging. I cry a little every time I throw that stuff away.


I reuse the large containers. They are great for storing extra sphagnum moss, or other supplies. Duct tape on the outside to mark what's in it and you're good to go (I wash them well before using)


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm in the process of switching over to Superfly, actually. I'm using NEHerp, which I like, but need to push production a little harder without making more cxs and I recall mentions (@Philsuma , IIRC) that SF is the top producer. Thanks for the advice on the containers.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

fishingguy12345 said:


> I reuse the large containers. They are great for storing extra sphagnum moss, or other supplies. Duct tape on the outside to mark what's in it and you're good to go (I wash them well before using)


I reuse them as well as much as possible. I am in the process of converting back to 100% superfly usage. I've run into too many variables using other brands. They work great, then weather changes and they need to be modified so much it's like a crapshoot how well the cultures turn out. I find the Repashy is by far the most consistent, my only issue is that the melanogaster seem to BOOM a bit too fast for me, and the secondary booms aren't as useful.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

Chris S said:


> I find the Repashy is by far the most consistent, my only issue is that the melanogaster seem to BOOM a bit too fast for me, and the secondary booms aren't as useful.


The 2nd-to-last-time I needed to order FF media, Repashy was out of stock everywhere. So I went with one of the competitors; one I had used successfully in the past...

The two large bags I ordered had a very sweet smell and taste (you know how the powder gets in the air and in your mouth) and it would never "gel" like Repashy- it stayed very runny. And production was awful. (Is powdered sugar really that much cheaper than powdered potato?) 

Once Superfly was back in stock I ordered a bunch and I actually mix it 50:50 with the competitor to- 
1. Use up the stuff I bought
2. Dilute the Superfly so I get more moderate production instead of the super boom


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Broseph said:


> The 2nd-to-last-time I needed to order FF media, Repashy was out of stock everywhere. So I went with one of the competitors; one I had used successfully in the past...
> 
> The two large bags I ordered had a very sweet smell and taste (you know how the powder gets in the air and in your mouth) and it would never "gel" like Repashy- it stayed very runny. And production was awful. (Is powdered sugar really that much cheaper than powdered potato?)
> 
> ...


That's not a bad idea actually, I have a ton of extra stuff leftover I should try to incorporate.


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