# What's the deal with using fertilizer?



## Jencylivez (May 31, 2007)

Is it safe or not? Can it be done while the frogs are in the tank? How much should i dilute it to make it safe? Thankss


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## porkchop48 (May 16, 2006)

I do not think that you need fertilizer. If you have frogs in the tank their waste should be plenty to keep plants happy. Just my opinion though


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

I fertilize my plants lightly but instead of misting it I just water the substrate. I've heard plenty of people say that the frogs waste is enough for their tanks, but this has not been the case for me as I still have plenty of plants yellowing out because of a lack of nutrient even with frogs in the tank. To each his own...


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

I've had some yellowing leaves as well. What kind of virtilizers do you use in the tank with frogs?


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

I'm using an organic fertilizer called Earth Juice, but haven't used it long enough to comment on how it might affect the frogs.. my plants have been doing better since i started using it though.


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## Jencylivez (May 31, 2007)

I brought some of that dyna-grow and i want to know if its safe to use in the tank with the frogs. Thanks for the help guys


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The guys at Black Jungle have talked about this at frog shows, and have given good fertilizing recomendations in the past... I thought they had info on the site but can't find any current articles.

You do have to be careful about fertilizers as the frogs are both sensitive to chemicals, and most of the frog tanks are closed systems - meaning what isn't used will build up... you don't have to just worry about the initial dose, but how often you dose.

I also have to ask about the age of the tank, how long the plants have been in, and the substrate. A really good substrate should not have fertilization issues for a very long time, so at least with terrestrial plants, if the substrate is done right, this shouldn't be an issue. With epiphytes this can always be an issue, due to the lack of substrate, but still in small tanks this shouldn't be an issue. If the plants haven't been in the tank long, and the tank is still cycling, often the signs that a plant looks like it needs to be fertilized are actually signs of the plant trying to adapt... and some plants tend to look like crap when going thru this phase. 

Small tanks should not need fertilizers! Neither should young tanks. Make sure to heavily mist and rinse the frog poo off the leaves of plants and into the substrate!! It does no good just sitting on the leaves of the plant, it needs to be where the plant can absorb it.

Fertilizers are used in large tanks with heavy plant loads and light frog loads...


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

I have a 55 gallon with two darts. It has been established for 8 months now. Most of the plants are doing fine except for the streptocarpus "blue moon". They do well for a while then the leaves start to yellow. I only have 60 watts over it so I doubt its getting too much light. Also they are not kept sopping wet. 

Its aggrevating for them to get tall and look great and then die off slowly! I know I will never see a bloom. Also the episcia did bloom once but then died off. It started to come back a few months later but then died again unexpectedly. This leads me to believe some fertilizer would be some good. Same goes for the orchids.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm not sure about the episia (I've had them grow rampant and bloom freely in set up tanks with no frogs or fertilizer), but it does sound like the strep may use some... spraying it locally with a diluted, frog approved fertilizer would be the way to go... the whole tank shouldn't need it.


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

Yeah that's what I was planning on doing. I think one problem is that the frogs don't spend much time on that side of the tank because it is not as humid. Consequently their poo does not collect there. And I'm not going to start collecting it by hand...


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2007)

What is a frog approved fertilizer?
Also, what substrates are good for plants? I've been using fir and coco fiber/ sphagnum moss peat fiber. I get the feeling that yes, it is free draining, but doesn't do much more for the plants.
What about mounted plants. Many tanks have epiphytes that have no access to any substrate except the foam wall. Surely, if they get no frog poop, then they need some fert?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Ask the guys at black jungle about which fertilizer and how much... and anyone who gets the info please post it here :lol: It's been talked about a lot before, but I can't find the posts.

The substrates have been talked about a HUGE amount. Do a search and look for those Brent (bbrock) has been a part of.

Epiphytes are used to being in less that ideal substrates, so I wouldn't worry about fertilizing your tank as much unless it's a case of low frog density and not many dead flies. I've had bromeliads do fine without ferts purely because they got mroe than enough detritus in their axils. They've adapted to these conditions... they don't automatically have to have fert. In frogless tanks yes, eventually they will need it. Diluted a few times a year may be all they need.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

A couple threads related to this:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5908&highlight=fertilizer

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/v...=0&postorder=asc&highlight=fertilizer&start=0


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## Jencylivez (May 31, 2007)

Thanks for all the help my i appreciate it. There seems to be a lot of debate on whether its safe to use with frogs or not. I think I'm just gonna stick the the nature frog poop for now. Thanks again.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Jencylivez said:


> Thanks for all the help my i appreciate it. There seems to be a lot of debate on whether its safe to use with frogs or not. I think I'm just gonna stick the the nature frog poop for now. Thanks again.


I think the debate is not so much about whether it is safe. It is more about whether it is good. Personally, I think fertilizing causes many more problems than it solves except for the occasional boost to an ailing plant.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

*Re:*



KeroKero said:


> Fertilizers are used in large tanks with heavy plant loads and light frog loads...


What advice would you give a newbie w/the following and about to set up my first vivarium---

jewel orchids, ferns, mini orchid (scapyglottis minuta? unsure on lighting, fertilizer, etc.), variety of rare begonias===miniature and large ones----and four thumbnails in a 25 gallon vertical tank? Advice on placement? Fertilizer, or no need of one? I am looking for them to breed in the broms, so I know not to fertilize those.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Earthfrog, you'll likely want to start your own thread about this so it doesn't get lost within this thread (and since it's also going a bit OT). When you do, please provide a pic of your tank (if you've got a background and/or decor set up and just want us to recomend where to put plants) and as specific in plant names as you can get (your descriptions are too general other than the orchid). 

In general, you shouldn't need to fertilize any of those plants initially, and I'd be suprised than many of them would need it well after the tank is established since imitator are very good about spreading "fertilizer" of their own around :lol: Just make sure to wash it off the plant leaves (where it doesn't help anything) and into the substrate (or in the case of epiphytes... off the living leaves and onto the root area or inert surface the plants are growing on). I've only had to spot fertilize a couple of aggressive growers in tanks where the frogs were too terrestrial to go up and do the job, and it was very weak, and very rarely.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Fertilizers in water have long been suspected culprits in amphibian deformities. bROMELIADS IN TANKS GET plenty of fertilizer from frog poop as well as ff's drowning in them. A few broms have developed into carnivorous plants. In my opinion, it would be fine to fertilize while getting a tank established, as long as no frogs are in it, and enough water flushes the excess away before the frogs are introduced. Why take a chance? I don't like fertilizer on my skin, and it is far less sensitive than frog skin. I would suggest using plants with low fert requirements like most epiphytes that are used to making do with very little. I guess what you could do with an established tank would be to remove the inhabitants and then foliar feed spray the plants that need it, wash the extra off the leaves after a while drain your tanks bottom or siphon or whatever and put your animals back in. Ochids and epiphytes get nutrients from animal poop and detritus collecting around their roots from other plants. 
I suspect that some viv plant problems stem from a lack of proper lighting for the plants involved. Not everyone here uses full spectrum flourescents, or gives some of the random tropicals they buy Enough light to thrive. Many suitable orchids for the viv will be fine never getting any extra fertilizer, and for people who have soil in their vivs, a good mix put in in the beginning will solve many of the fert issues for years. Leaves off your viv plants that drop to the ground should be left there to add nutrients back to your soil. Don't underestimate the fertilizing power of frog poop.
And once again I would like to say that IMO Botanicare's pure blend pro is the best all purpose fert to use. I like to mix it at 5ml per gallon, and it is great for regular fertilizing, as well as foliar feeding, which is more efficient


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I know this is an older thread but I was wondering about if/when needed, how about using a natural substance such as compost or worm casings? Perhaps keeping some earthworms in a container with the same substrate used in the tank and every now and then remove some of it and "mulch" around the base of the plants? Just an idea. I am hoping that with 5-7 frogs in my 75g viv I won't have to worry too much about fertilizing.


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