# D. Auratus "Ancon Hill"



## dartboi101 (May 14, 2008)

Hi everyone! Well first of all I went to a local pet store yesterday because they were having a really big gand opening sale and these guys are really good friends of my family and they had about 8 green and black auratus mixed with some ancon hill auratus in a 12+12+18 zoomed with a water fall. And what really ticked me off was that they would mix them, they had a screen top, which isnt good at all because of there humidity needs, and they were feeding them huge crickets which they didnt even eat. I felt very bad so I bought all the ancon hill auratus they had which was only two, I would have bought the other ones as well but they just seemed sick to me they were very skinny and they werent all green and black they also had blue mixed in with it, can that mean its a cross breed? Anyways I felt really bad so I bought them, and I noticed they were really skinny so i fed them some dusted ff yesterday and today, but unlike my luec they didnt jump right on to eating them they didnt even seem to care. but I did see them eat a couple but not a good meal. Could this be because of there new home? Right now I have them in a 18+18+18 zoo med and I am planning of putting them in a temperary 10 gallon set up. Humidity is around 90-100 and temps are in the 70's. And one of them just hides all the time and the other one runs around but is only shy when it see's me and he hangs around the water dish as well, is this bad?


----------



## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I'm guessing that the auratus are some of the WC imports coming in from Panama. I'd get a fecal to a vet - a dart frog spending a lot of time in water is often a sign of illness.


----------



## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

zBrinks said:


> I'm guessing that the auratus are some of the WC imports coming in from Panama. I'd get a fecal to a vet - a dart frog spending a lot of time in water is often a sign of illness.


If they had 10 of them in a 12x12x18 I would guess they are froglets or it would have been awfully crowded in there. 

My only question is if you already have them in a 18x18x18 exoterra why would you move them to a temporary tank? They've already been in contact with the exoterra and unless you plant to gut the exoterra and sterilize the entire tank and contents it doesn't make much sense to remove them now does it?


----------



## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

dartboi101 said:


> they werent all green and black they also had blue mixed in with it, can that mean its a cross breed?


Not necessarily, they could be panamanian auratus and it's fairly common for them to have green/black or blue/black offspring - even when both parents are green/black.


----------



## dartboi101 (May 14, 2008)

The only reason i am moving them into a different tank is because the tank they are in now wasnt supposed to be for them it was for my luec and i wasnt planning on getting any frogs until i went into the store and i didnt have a tank set up for them the only tank that was set up was the one for my luec! =(


----------



## Ziggi (Jan 23, 2009)

So you were gonna put 1 leuc in the 18x18x18?
Why not keep your auratus in the exo terra and put the leuc in the 10gal instead??
Best of luck with the auratus.
Never good to buy off impulses when not ready but I understand the circumstances.


----------



## dartboi101 (May 14, 2008)

okay and about the luec, in the future im going to purchase a female from jeremy, actually im going to try this summmer, anyways i was going to put my luec pair in the zoomedbut i dont have the pair yet. does any of this make sense?


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I have found that my own Ancon Hill auratus are relatively shy, even after they are well established and comfortable in the tank. That makes it difficult to see if they are all eating well, of course, but doesn't mean the one that hides isn't coming out when you aren't around, so don't gt discouraged yet. Since this was a mercy mission and you weren't prepared with separate nursery tanks for a quarantine period, I would agree with Ziggi, and JL-exotics, that at this point, you should consider simply keeping them in the 18x18 and use the 10 for the single leuc rather than risk moving them and leaving a possibly "contaminated" tank for the leuc. All of mine seem to hang out under the waterfall or near the waterway, rather than in the higher-drier regions of their 55 gallon tank most of the time, so I'm not sure what their preference for the water indicates, except mine are older, established frogs, and have been perfectly healthy for 3 years. My males go to the higher, drier reaches to call, and the females will join them for the courting activity, but otherwise, they seem to choose being close to the water. 

One interesting thing about the Ancon Hill auratus, is that their sexes can be distinguished by their skin markings. Check out Patrick Nabors' (Saurian) site for information about this, since I can't remember whether it's the male or female that has a bar on the flank instead of a spot, and mine don't sit still for close observation, such as when one of the males is calling, to remind me again of which is which. 

Is there anyway you could tactfully suggest to the pet shop owners that they should be at least feeding fruit flies to their darts, not larger crickets they can't swallow, and providing the proper humidity? They might appreciate this information before the rest of their "frogs-for-sale" starve to death and dehydrate. They should also know what to advise customers who may buy the rest of them-- at least give the frogs you didn't already rescued a chance in hell of surviving? Maybe you could refer them to this site before they order more, so they at least have an idea of how to keep them. This can be a little "touchy," especially if you are young and essentially inexperienced with personally keeping them yourself, but if you seriously approach them without seeming to be a "know-all," or adamant, it would do a lot of good, without hurting the egos of family friends.


----------



## dartboi101 (May 14, 2008)

Is there anyway you could tactfully suggest to the pet shop owners that they should be at least feeding fruit flies to their darts, not larger crickets they can't swallow, and providing the proper humidity? They might appreciate this information before the rest of their "frogs-for-sale" starve to death and dehydrate. They should also know what to advise customers who may buy the rest of them-- at least give the frogs you didn't already rescued a chance in hell of surviving? Maybe you could refer them to this site before they order more, so they at least have an idea of how to keep them. This can be a little "touchy," especially if you are young and essentially inexperienced with personally keeping them yourself, but if you seriously approach them without seeming to be a "know-all," or adamant, it would do a lot of good, without hurting the egos of family friends.[/QUOTE]



Well when I had first started ordering frogs from them a while back they told me to feed them crickets and get them a ventalated terrarium. I think I spent over $500 for nothing but dieing frogs, and then I discovered dendroboard and it helped me ALOT and im really happy. And pretty soon im going to start breeding them and sell the offspring to the pet store and I personally told them what the requirements are for properly keeping dart frogs! But u know no one listens to a Fourteen year old!


----------



## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

I have a trio of Ancons that were in a similar situation when I got them from a pet store. (What is it about pet stores and Ancons??? Must be price...) They are doing well now--I contacted Dr. Frye, had fecals run, and then treated them for parasites. My were relatively skinny as well and now they are doing just fine.

A word of caution: Patrick has some INVALUABLE information on his site about MANY aspects of frogs and frog. However, I think in this case, it is an "old wives" tale that comes true enough of the time to make people think it is true--My proven male has a BIG bar across the back. In fact, all of mine have bars right across their backs: and I know the one male and one female that are breeding. For further information, check out some of the older threads--Ancons cannot be proven using this method. Just wait until they begin breeding, it's relatively early! Mine are only about 8 or 9 months OOTW. 

A final note, I have also found them to be pretty shy even in a well planted tank--that all changed when the breeding behavior began. Now they are all out whenever there is food and to chase the male around the tank.

Good luck with your new frogs!


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Shane, even if you are only 14 years old, you might still get them to check out this site, and at least look at the care sheets, perhaps refer people that buy them to this site, as well. Otherwise, a lot of dart frogs may be dying unnecessarily. Maybe, you could just print out the care sheets and send it to them anonymously, if they don't think a 14 year old could possibly know anything they don't. I usually don't approve of sending anonymous information, but between young teenagers and many adults who don't tend to listen to anything beyond their pre-conceived, ingrained dogma, it may be the only way to do it. 

The nice thing about being young, is that you are still listening and exploring. Once you think you know it all, you become merely a stubborn old fart, not an expert. 

Michael--It's interesting to hear you say that your proven male has a bar across his back. Patrick sent me four Ancon Hills, two with bars and two without, and I have two pairs breeding on either side of the tank. But as I said, I it's a 55 gallon with lots of foliage, so other than recognizing that breeding activity is going on on both ends, I haven't been able to identify them by the bars across the back, because I can't always see these, such as when a male is obviously calling, and can't really tell who is doing what and with which and to whom, as one can do more easily with bolder frogs. I wonder if the trait is only skewed a bit, and there may be exceptions?


----------



## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

It is entirely possible. Also, perhaps it holds true more for some locals than others? I don't know; I've read other threads on here where sexual dimorphism in ancons was refuted and I have my own limited experience to go on as well. 

As far as the male goes, I haven't heard or seen him call, but I did see him with my female in the hut and I watched her lay eggs, so I'm pretty sure that he's the guy. =) My female follows him around and rubs his back as well, so that's all I'm basing it on--he doesn't seem to ever call. 

In all fairness, he does have SHORTER bars than my females... =)


----------

