# Best species for warm paludarium?



## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Hi DB,
I have a 29 gal (30 x 12 x 18) paludarium in the process. I'll upload some pics soon, but I was wondering, which type of herps would do well in this setup? The land area will consist of a large piece of bogwood with a waterfall running down it, and a bunch of semi aquatic plants sticking out of the water (I'm thinking arrowhead and hygrophila, with some hyacinth). I originally thought reed frogs or red eyed tree frogs, but I'm worried that the frogs will drown in the 10-inch deep water. Any ideas? The tank stays about a constant 75 degrees Fahrenheit with 100% humidity. Also, I have some fish in it, so ideally the herps and fish would get along


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Here some pics, sorry for taking so long:


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

That's a fish tank my friend


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Oh... My bad. Any aquatic species then?


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

I hate to sound facetious but, freshwater fish? 

I'm not a fish guy.. maybe someone else can chime in. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of response in a dart frog forum though


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

I'm sorry for not specifying, I meant aquatic herps


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

If you add a few more islands you could get away with mossy frogs (Theloderma corticale), floating frogs (Occidozyga lima), or a wide variety of newt species. If you prefer the tank as is you can easily keep dwarf African clawed frog (Hymenochirus spp.) or even a Pipa pipa.


For fish I'd go with a pair or harem of labyrinth fish such as pearl gouramis, paradise fish, or their ilk. They will utilize the surface quite well and could bubble nest in calmer areas around plants. Also add a small school of galaxy rasboras or white cloud minnows if you keep it on the cooler side. Try a small fish to compliment your larger labyrinth fish that will tolerate a wide temperature range or potential fluctuating water parameters (the consequences of keeping ravenous frogs). If you just want one species of small fish to feed tiny frozen foods to while keeping your frogs happy try scarlet badis (Dario dario).

You can compliment your assortment of frogs and fish by adding cherry shrimp (many different colour varieties) and ramshorn snails that should keep it clean with out breeding too much. 


Hope that helps.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks for the reply! The mossy frogs sound really nice, do you think that large floating plants (water lettuce) will substitute for islands and is around 75-80 degrees to warm for the frogs? Also, would the surinam toads would prey on the fish?


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

You'd be getting into uncomfortable territory for the mossy frogs and yes the surinam toads would eat your fish. Floating plants would work well for the floating frogs and newts though.


And if you can find them there are tropical, aquatic caecilians that would work.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks for the info, how would 70-75 degrees work for the mossy frogs? I've heard about the caecilians but apparently they burrow a lot


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

That range is great for Mossy frogs. In fact you wouldn't need much of a heater at all.


As for caecilians there are aquatic species that are sometimes available. But I suspect these species have a mostly aquatic cycle and eventually need land to burrow in for breeding purposes. Plus they are escape artists. They would be more on the intermediate to advanced side for amphibian keeping.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks! I think I'll go with the mossy frogs


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

Just add more driftwood islands and some that overhang the water should they ever choose to lay eggs and mossy frogs will work great.


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## Rushthezeppelin (Oct 6, 2015)

erikm said:


> That's a fish tank my friend


Actually it would be more accurate to call it a riparium.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

RabidSimian said:


> Just add more driftwood islands and some that overhang the water should they ever choose to lay eggs and mossy frogs will work great.


 Thanks, I'll be sure to add some! Would water lettuce or hyacinth also work?


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## Rushthezeppelin (Oct 6, 2015)

Those work great for cleaning water just like duckweed.....just check into the legality of such things in your state though. Alot of floaters are considered invasive species and, for example here in Texas, carry penalties as tough as if you were caught with marijuana.


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

You can use floaters, but the mossy frogs may end up being to heavy for some of them. Best to add a combination of both driftwood and floating plants.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Ok, I'll use just two or three water lettuce (which are legal where I live) and have some more driftwood islands. Are mossy frogs ok with relatively clean water, or do they need extremely clean water?


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## jpm995 (Sep 15, 2013)

Newts or axolotos would be a good choise for your tank.


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## DorisSlammington (Jan 12, 2014)

GandalfTheGrey said:


> Hi DB,
> I have a 29 gal (30 x 12 x 18) paludarium in the process. I'll upload some pics soon, but I was wondering, which type of herps would do well in this setup? The land area will consist of a large piece of bogwood with a waterfall running down it, and a bunch of semi aquatic plants sticking out of the water (I'm thinking arrowhead and hygrophila, with some hyacinth). I originally thought reed frogs or red eyed tree frogs, but I'm worried that the frogs will drown in the 10-inch deep water. Any ideas? The tank stays about a constant 75 degrees Fahrenheit with 100% humidity. Also, I have some fish in it, so ideally the herps and fish would get along


Water hyacinth needs full sun. A lot of light! I have four high output lights that make my bromeliads happy and have burnt my shade plants and even that wasn't enough for the hyacinths. They're truly an outdoor option. You should get tiger lilies, they bloom and are very cool to have with frogs.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks! I think I'll just stick with duckweed and maybe some water lettuce and the tiger lilies later on. I just ordered my frogs from Saurian.net


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## greenthumbs (Nov 6, 2015)

Java moss would work well. It would give the frogs some moss to camouflage in and will grow under water and on the wet parts of the driftwood islands. Good luck with your frogs!


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

I already have some java moss in the tank. My java moss grows extremely slow, but I've heard that it grows extremely fast. Is there a trick to getting it to grow faster?


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## greenthumbs (Nov 6, 2015)

Huh. In my experience Java moss starts a little slow and then speeds up after about a month. How long since it was planted?


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

It's been around 2-3 weeks. That's probably why it hasn't grown yet.


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## greenthumbs (Nov 6, 2015)

Are there any nutrients or fish in the water? Fertilizers definitely help, too.


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## zerelli (Sep 14, 2009)

Neither is going to like warm water.



jpm995 said:


> Newts or axolotos would be a good choise for your tank.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

greenthumbs said:


> Are there any nutrients or fish in the water? Fertilizers definitely help, too.


I've got a pair of angelfish in there, and the substrate is a mix of gravel and aquatic soil.


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

GandalfTheGrey said:


> Ok, I'll use just two or three water lettuce (which are legal where I live) and have some more driftwood islands. Are mossy frogs ok with relatively clean water, or do they need extremely clean water?


Mossy frogs can handle slips in the water conditions, but I've heard some are prone to eye infections if the Nitrates/Nitrites get too high (which lots of plants should keep under control). Some people use a sulfa block meant for turtles to treat them, but I have never done so before. Do research if this ever happens for your frogs.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

I definitely will do some research on the eye infections that can occur. Does sulfa block affect the pH in any way?


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

GandalfTheGrey said:


> I definitely will do some research on the eye infections that can occur. Does sulfa block affect the pH in any way?


Not sure as I've never used it. If you research mossy frogs and eye infections perhaps a forum more suited to their care will show up and they'll have the answers.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

I'll do some research. the Mossy frogs arrived! I'll post some pics soon.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Sorry for not posting the pictures, some things popped up and I just finished dealing with them. Here are some of the frogs:


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Did you add anything for the frogs to sit on or is it still all water?


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

I've added a floating turtle log that's probably about 6 inches long and 2 inches wide, and another piece of driftwood that's around 4 inches in diameter.


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Very cool... Glad to hear. Those frogs look amazing. I've always wanted to get some. Good luck with them!


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Thanks! Right now Patrick Nabors at Saurian.net has some juveniles for sale at $50 each, you may want to look into that.


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks man, but I'm trying not to add anything new to the collection right now... Trying LoL


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

LOL me too


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