# My new setup (no frogs yet)



## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Hello everyone,
New to this board and new to darts although kept various amphibians and fish in the past 

I've just got some pictures of how far I've got setting the viv up so far. It's a pretty standard false bottom fish tank affair. It looks ok I think but not quite there yet. Getting the substrate looking right seems to be the hardest problem I've had. As you can see from the pictures I've tried it with some test leaves and with bits of bark. I think I'll end up going with oak leaves in the end. It still needs a lid before I can even think about frogs unfortunately 

Dimensions are 60x60x45cm and all the mister apparatus and bits and bobs live in the cupboard underneath.


































I'm a bit concerned the big birds nest fern (or at least a close relative of) isn't enjoying the misting. It's growing really fast but the new leaves are starting to get brown patches, which I think is because water is sitting on the leaves and running into the crown? Everything else is growing really well with no issues so I might remove this and replace with a brom of similar size more suited to the conditions. I've planted kyoto moss spores in various places, just waiting impatiently for them to sprout now - It all looks a bit 'new' at the moment.

Thanks for looking anyway


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

looks good, love the large fern!!


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## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

Wow very nice, what the background make out of? what kind of misters do you have running?


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Hey, thanks for the replies 

- the background is made by Juwel for use in their aquariums. I think the appearance should be more subtle once things start growing on it.
- the mister is the imaginatively titled 'basic misting system'. It works very well, although the pump is louder than I was expecting. It's feeding from a container of de-ionised water at the moment until I can settle on an RO unit.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

I love the bird'snest as well. Are the patches mushy or crunchy? If they are mushy its probably too much water. Sometimes though, if a plant is used to drier conditions, the leaves will die off and new ones that are adapted to the new humidity will replace them. Can kind of look ugly in the interim, a bit like a bad haircut growing out, but something to keep in mind.

Looks good to me, especially for a first tank.

Edited to add: Although, if your brome is not having any water problems, it probably is not too much water as they are much more sensitive to that than most ferns.... too much light perhaps?


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## nawth21 (Apr 17, 2008)

very nice aquarium, I saw one at the lfs recently and was seriously considering it for another reef set up.

I'm no good with ferns, I've killed all i ever had save for one.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

It looks as if someone has done their homework.. nice job! What frogs are you thinking of?


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

housevibe7 said:


> I love the bird'snest as well. Are the patches mushy or crunchy? If they are mushy its probably too much water. Sometimes though, if a plant is used to drier conditions, the leaves will die off and new ones that are adapted to the new humidity will replace them. Can kind of look ugly in the interim, a bit like a bad haircut growing out, but something to keep in mind.
> 
> Looks good to me, especially for a first tank.
> 
> Edited to add: Although, if your brome is not having any water problems, it probably is not too much water as they are much more sensitive to that than most ferns.... too much light perhaps?


The brown patches are most definitely of the mushy variety. In terms of lighting, it's two 25w T5s in the hood - although it's only on for 5 or 6 hours in the evening when I get in from work, the rest of the day it gets good old British daylight seeping through the window. I wonder if it's something to do with the fluctuating conditions? As I haven't made a lid yet the humidity is yo-yoing quite a lot in there. I'll see if it improves and if not it's coming out and going on a windowsill I guess 

nawth21 - yeah it is a nice tank, although as it's really built to hold water the glass is much thicker than it needs to be for this application..so it's not the most portable! I do like the curved glass corners on the front though.

srrrio - the jury is out on that one, at this point I have some possibles but no firm contenders, just scouring images and care sheets at the moment waiting for something to 'jump out' so to speak


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## Sarkany (Mar 11, 2008)

I've got this Asplenium fern as well, and I've noticed that its leaves are sensitive to getting water directly onto them, and will react with brown spots. On the other hand, the fern really likes high humidity... 

The viv itself looks good , but both ferns are of the kinds that can get really HUGE.


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Ok thanks for the info..in that case I might try and redirect the misting nozzles a bit so it doesn't get the full blast and see if that makes a difference. It's only the newly developing leaves that are affected with the brown spotting - which I assume is because they're more delicate. The 'adult' leaves seem completely unbothered about having water droplets sitting on them.

If it is going to get huge I might have to rethink it anyway eh? It's grown noticably just in the last week and a half  It's a shame as it makes a nice focal point. I'm starting to run out of windowsill space to put all my rejected plants on  It'll get there in the end I'm sure.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Looks very good!

Oak leaves do work well. Here we use a lot of 'Live Oak' species, and Magnolia leaves, but really anything works and they all rot in the end, so the aesthetics of what looks nice is short lived anyways.

I've had problems with those ferns also. in the majority of my tanks, ferns rot if misted. They do well in high humidity, but need circulating air, and a quick 'dry time' if misted. In a closed system they rotted on me.

Best,

S


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

And indeed they rotted on me also  The Boston started to go as well so they both came out and were replaced with a variety of prayer plant, another brom and some creeping fig (still very small at the moment - you can just make it out in the back corner, and I'm hoping it should take over the wall).

I find it very hard to get pictures that really convey what it looks like. These sort of do but I guess the trick is catching the lighting accurately. The camera I use seems pretty good at capturing the vibrancy of the colours but the brightness can be a bit harsh. Perhaps I need to fiddle with the white levels or something.


























The flower on the new brom is a bit gaudy for me but it's hard to pick them up from 'normal' shops without them. Hopefully I'll get some pups, the foliage is really nice.

Since no Kyoto moss ever grew on the first attempt I'm trying the second half of the packet of spores in a little container in the airing cupboard. A few little sprigs have popped up already so I'm more hopeful this time around


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

At last the big day came yesterday 









(As the female was getting out of the tub you could almost imagine it going 'Hup!')

It's really hard to get good photos with the glass all misted up 


















This one is from above with the front of the lid raised









Next job is to make a replica of the front piece of the lid but build in a couple of small pc fans on a dc convertor, angled to keep the glass clear of condensation. After all this time and effort it's a shame that now the frogs are finally in there I can't really see them!

They seem to be settling in ok - they spent most of yesterday exploring and then went to bed under some leaves about 7pm. The male is much more shy than the female - I'm hoping once he's settled this will change since she's hoovered up the lion's share of all the flies I've put in before he's really got his act together and come out for them, even if I drop them very close to him. He is feeding happily enough though once he gets going, he's just not quite the vaccum cleaner the female seems to be!


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I am in love with that bunch of tiny leafed plant in the back. It is in every shot but the 3rd. What is it? I want some. 

The first shot is so cute. 

Candy


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

I like that plant too, it's grown seriously quickly since I finished the lid and the humidity went up. In the Uk it's called 'Mind your own business' for some reason - link to more information here:

Mind Your Own Business! (Soleirolia soleirolli (Helexine soleirolii))

Since it really seems to be a temperate outdoor plant it remains to be seen how well it'll do long term in the viv, but for the moment at least it's going bonkers in there. The frogs seem to like clambering about on it - must be their equivalent of walking in deep snow


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## allyn (Oct 6, 2008)

awsome tank! is tha backround premade or did you make it? oh and it dosnt seem like the frogs have much cover. mabey put in a coco hut. im sure if that tini leafed plant grew over a coco hut it would look really cool.


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

The pictures are a bit misleading, it's hard (with my photographic skills anyway) to get the details - the leaf litter is pretty deep and the male seems to have selected a little leaf 'tent' to make his home in on the right hand side. The female seems to prefer a little nook between the big brom and the Helexine when it's time for bed. There are lots of other places they could go if they wanted to - even some Sapucuja shells half buried in the substrate with just the openings showing. I'm not a huge fan of the look of coco-huts myself, they might be naturally sourced but they still look a bit odd in a vivarium to me. When they get a bit bigger and hopefully start to look like breeding I might reconsider.

The female isn't at all shy, she seems to speed morning till night crashing about through the leaves at the front, but the male doesn't seem to have built up the courage to come out of his hiding spot yet when we're in the room and the viv light is on - think he's still settling in 

The background is made by juwel and really intended for putting in their aquariums. I was going to make my own but since I had it already it seemed a shame not to use it, hopefully it'll be covered in creeping foliage in the end anyway


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Just a couple more now that things are starting to grow in and the fans are installed so you can actually see inside now. Some of the original plants did well, others didn't. I think what's in there seems to be doing well now though. The prayer plant I had in the left corner did so well I had to take it out as it was taking over. As there's air movement in the viv now I've put the asplenium back in and it doesn't seem to get water sitting on it anymore - and hopefully it wont outgrow the space too quickly. Wish I'd taken the feeding cup out before I took the picture 










Smaller frog is actually coming out now at feeding time so getting less shy slowly. The spots on it are enormous compared to it's slightly larger tankmate. I understand these tend to shrink as Azureus age but at the moment it looks more like a different morph to me. I'll see what happens as it grows!


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

I think that azureus in the bottom pic is stunning!


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

Wow, I really love the look of this tank!


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## afroturf (Nov 2, 2008)

Lovely setup, whats the plant on the ground just right of centre? the one one of your azureus seems to be admiring.


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

That's an antenna fern - _Coreopteris cordata_ I think  I think it might be a little moist for it down there as I've noticed a few of the leaves are browning and I've has nothing but bad luck with pretty much every fern I've tried in there. I mounted a couple of internal fans in my lid to try and stop water 'sitting' and boost humidity. The fixings swivel and the fans tilt so they can be pointed in roughly the direction of any problem areas, as well as to keep the glass clear. It remains to be seen how well they'll work but it's fun to experiment at least


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## clippo (Nov 18, 2008)

tank looks lovely - where abouts in the UK are you? 

I've had zero experience with plants but could it be that your substrate is too moist? from what I read this can cause plant rot.... also, how have you set-up the drainage layer etc? Actually, it looks like they could be planted in shelves somehow.... if so I wonder if water is accumualting around their roots?

I am interested as I was hoping to try both Nephropolis and Asplenium ferns in my tank.


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi - thanks 

I'm in Guildford area at the moment, although a northerner in my soul 
In terms of drainage I've got the standard egg crate on feet (and by the way egg crate is like gold dust or something in the UK! I had to order it off some specialist commercial lighting website in the end) My barrier layer is weed matting that you'd use in the garden. The 'ground level' is definitely quite moist but not waterlogged. The terraced area along the back is a lot drier, so you're right it might be happier up there. I'm a bit disappointed with the moss, I think it's fading away slowly - possibly not enough light hitting the floor?

The first time I had the Asplenium in there it kept getting water droplets sitting on the leaves from the mister and after a couple of weeks the leaves started to rot - as I was rightly warned would happen in this thread. This time round a bit of airflow and re-arranging the mister layout seems to have fixed it. The trick for me also seems to be being less 'mister happy'. As it's an almost completely sealed viv it really doesn't need extra water adding every day as there's not really anywhere for it to go. Now I mist once every three days or so and humidity never really moves from about 80%.


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

good looking frogs! i like the darker azureus rather than the real light blue ones.they look great..........good luck!


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

iridebmx said:


> good looking frogs! i like the darker azureus rather than the real light blue ones.they look great..........good luck!


I'm with you 100%. I don't like the sky blue ones at all.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Where did you purchase your background? All I can find online is UK.
Great looking tank!

-Beth


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Yes you might struggle to find them as easily outside Europe and the UK, Juwel don't seem to have crossed the pond much. I was originally going to keep rift lake cichlids in this tank before I had a change of heart which is why I bought it as it's safe to completely immerse. It seemed a waste not to still use it in the viv - although to be honest as nice as it looks, I think I would have had much more fun making my own


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## clippo (Nov 18, 2008)

looks great .. and those frogs really are beauts!

where did ya get em?


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

dartfrog.co.uk 

Took me absolutely ages to decide what type to go for too - wish I had more space for another viv! Not likely I'd swing that one with the better half though, especially as recently quite a lot of 'food' has been escaping somehow and been found on walls, pillows, surfaces and floating in cups of tea. They really do get out of the tiniest of gaps  For a while I did actually get away with saying 'Oh no that isn't one of mine, must have got in from outside' but she's wise to me now...


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## clippo (Nov 18, 2008)

> For a while I did actually get away with saying 'Oh no that isn't one of mine, must have got in from outside' but she's wise to me now...


lmao


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## pilo0024 (Aug 22, 2006)

Delgado said:


> dartfrog.co.uk
> 
> For a while I did actually get away with saying 'Oh no that isn't one of mine, must have got in from outside' but she's wise to me now...


ahh haha! that is awesome. I really like the tank. The frogs are really fun to watch I bet. About that 'mind your own business plant', which I think is called Baby's Tears over here, I didn't see if anyone already said that. At any rate how's it doing? I heard they get trampled rather fast by the larger dart species.


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## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Yeah the MYOB/ Baby's Tears didn't make it in the end. The frogs seem to love jumping onto it but apart from spreading substrate all over it I don't think they did it any real harm at their current size. Physically it's pretty springy and resilient. I think the issue was really down to a lack of airflow... the same stuff is growing in my mum's garden and that gets everything the British weather can throw at it all year round - but the sun and wind will act to dry it out properly on a regular basis I guess. In the viv it started off doing really well but suddenly started rotting from the inside layers of foliage out to the surface - I suppose because the foliage is so dense it tends to hold onto water like a sponge.


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## pilo0024 (Aug 22, 2006)

ah that makes sense. So if i kept good airflow I still might be able to put some in a viv it sounds like. thanks for the info.


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