# has anyone ever heard a very very loud azureus call?



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

has anyone ever heard azureus call so loud you can hear it through its tank...no vents.....as i am redoing tanks with vents soon...but this males calls are louder than a leopard frogs...terribillis...anything i have ever heard. i must record it! All my breeding azureus can't hear a thing, but get good eggs and tads....i'm sure they call...but its so low you can't hear it. i'm 4 floors up and can hear this guy from the frog room with door closed! Pat nabors line. curious!


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Do you have any broms in the tank? It could be a hitchiker, cricket or another frog. I`ve never heard of an azureus call heard outside the tank.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

it called like that even from the quarantine with wet paper towels and pothos leaves only for fecals...and has been ever since in the tank. I can see him do it. Like actually see his throat swell WAY up and call. The tank he is in....no broms , crickets ...i assure you....it is him. I even heard it while he was in quarantine for fecals......what would you say about it? :shock:


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

well...i guess this is something you have never even had a chance to experience..cuz this is a crazy call of a mature male....sexed by pat nabors and sent. I even asked him about it.  maybe something new to u aaron??? new to me as well. i have a few breeding azureus pairs besides this one and not a peep has ever been heard during mating.....this feller is loud. I've got to record this monday when my camera arrives to prove it. :? 8)


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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

Do you only have vents and azureus in your vivs?

I'd love to hear the call.


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

The loudest azureus I ever heard I had to have the top off of their tank to hear. I'd love to hear what this sounds like!


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Can't wait to see it  
Candy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

no vents...this guy calls like this from a quarantine of only paper towels and pothos leaves....once again....i said it is the rarest and most unique thing i have ever heard.....and like to do it at night....drives the hubby insane and i even reassured him u cant hear azureus call...now he thinks i'm full of bull over this one rare azureus! i assure u...i dont have crickets in house....nothing besides ff and springtails....no vents either as i dont deal with the smaller darts and i wouldnt house vents and azureus together ayhow...this is a loud call heard from 4 levels down with all doors shut and even my fan running at night...can't sleep without it and now i've got an insane azureus that just wont shut up lol. when my camera comes monday..i'll try to get it on recording with picture of throat calling and all.......so u can all see the rarity it is....its amazing and annoying at same time lol my son had some leapard frogs long time ago before i got into darts and i thought that was bad and hubby hounded me cuz it sounded like we were living in a pond.....but this is an extreme call....i know u usually have to be right next to azureus tanks to hear call...even so....i have never heard my males call that bred prolifically except this one....and to think pat handpicked this one for me cuz he owed me one lol....i sent him an email saying all this...he agrees it is possible and had an auratus like that once but after two months quit....so maybe this feller is new at it and will stop doing it once he catches on that the female doesnt need that loud of a call. it amazing, annoying..rare!!  8)


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

this sounds crazy.... no but seriously get that video its a must for us ALL!!


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i'm going to getn that video cuz some seem to question it. I have definately been breeding azureus long enough to know their call u cant hear.....but this guy is crazy! thats why i posted this topic


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## moothefrog (May 16, 2008)

Thats what I was going to say,you beat me to the punch.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i know i know....maybe its sounds like really off......but i swear on everything i got this feller is extremely loud. i don't know what else to say...,..except that i am amused...confused..annoyed...surprised....and worried all at the same time we just ordered a camera coming in mondays delivery hopefully or i can try with my computer camera...he likes to do it at night when i sit close to the tank or quarantine he was in. lol


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## Chameleon996 (Nov 7, 2006)

I think i must agree with frogfarm it is probably a cricket ot hitchiker of sorts. 
4 floors away??


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

Chameleon996 said:


> 4 floors away??


Not questioning your observations Kristy...its just extremelyrare to have an azureus call THAT loudly. Louder than terribilis?? Really? Having raised well over 500 azureus, I've never experienced that.
Stranger things have occurred...
Scott


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## Matt Mirabello (Aug 29, 2004)

what are the anatomical changes/mutations that would be necessary for an azureus to develop the ability to call loudly? Is it 1, 2... 3 genes that need to be modified (turned on or off). It is possible, though I am not sure how probable. Before speculating further the best scientific course of action would to be to verify that the frog in question is calling. You could record his call while watching him do it OR move him to a place away from where the call is originating to see if the call moves with the frog.

Was this azureus put into a pre-setup tank? when he was in quaranteen was he in the same room at the tank or other frogs?

it is always best to get verification before speculating. If this turns out to be a true case of a loud calling azureus it is important for the hobby and the scientific community, but first there must be verification.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i knew no one would believe me....i agree must be a genetic thing possibly....it is monumental to science i agree with that also. look the azureus made these call even in a quarantine tank away from any of my other darts in a different room. i was sitting next to quarantine when it first happened. I carry no crix in the house, all that was in quarantine was the pothos leaves and wet paper towels for fecals. I know it is odd....i bred azureus, surinam cobalts and much more. the most i have ever heard a call from was terribillis...never owned one yet//looking but know the call....and leopard frogs calls from my pond. Now that we have eliminated any possibilities of crix or any other darts as the only darts i have heard calling from that i have are my auratus green and bronze....very low and need to be next to tank...and my surinam cobalts..also the same. this quarantine tank i put in a separate room....actually not even a tank...just a container...for fecals...i was siting there doing my vet school finals rewiew when i heard this awfully loud sound coming from qurantine! I could see the throat of this male swell full size...way big.....and the call was very loud as i was watching his throat swell each time he called. so explain that! only paper towels.....and pothos leaves...no crix in house. it is unbelieveable....but nature can cause anything to happen. got the pair from pat recently....he owed me one...and the male calls so loud....there is no possibility 0% it was anything but him as i watched and saw. i ordered a new camera and am hoping i can catch it to prove it. So for all of you who have had 500 azureus as i do that don't hear calls....this is a one in a million thing then. genetics could play a role....i do need to record. working on it. Got to catch the feller at the exact moment and u will see. i dont watch all my tanks all day long as i have other responsibilities....but i did watch him do it even in quarantine.....so no possibility whatsoever of anything else but him. I guess i'm thinking you all are wrong if you think it is impossible.....maybe its that one in a million.....but itys him i assure you...as soon as i get the recording i'll let you here and see it! then the specualtion can be off my back and proven.....I too have azureus breeding pairs and have never heard a peep, not even when right up at tank during mating. This is the rarest thing i think. So it must be recorded...hopefully i can catch it and if so.....what would you say to it? kristy  

those in doubt should really know there are 1 in a million possibilities in nature, just :wink: like humans. I wouldn't have posted to lie about an azureus call like this unless i was positive.....and make myself look like an idiot


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Either that Kristy, or there is extremely potent pot in Minnesota! 8)


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

well i'm sure there is some extremely potent pot in mn....lol chris but unfortunately i'm drug-free ony prescriptions for the heart problems i have :lol: but everyone. my dart room is four floors down. i never put darts in quarantine next to my dart room. I keep them upstairs where it is a bit warmer...on 4th level of my home...so i just got this pair in that pat nabors owed me from a long time ago. the day it called...the day i received.....it was in a 190 oz quarantine enclosure reccomended by dr.frye with wet paper towels and a few sterilized pothos leaves.....no frogs around and i dont culture crix.....nothing but ff and springtails. so my business office is where i put this feller while doing my online final for a health care laws and ethics course for vet school....which by the way received one wrong on an intensive final which should say something about my character as i am a 4.0 student and always have been...never receiving less than an A. so the day i received the pair they went into 190 oz quarantines like i said and i was doing my final at nght when my hubby and kids were asleep as it was due by midnight.....and the office room was dead quiet while trying to do my final...just one azureus in room in quarantine...female...and the other was in quarantine next to me male. i saw his throat swell up every time he called. it scared the wits out of me because i was concentrating on myn final that was due and timed by midnight. i actully jumped and heart started racing from the loud call.....when i noticed his throat swelling up after each call. called like 7 times and gave up. now i think matt mriabello is right about maybe some sort of gene sequencing getting turned on or off. i'll just have to catch it on camera. I wouldnt post a thread to make me look like a complete idiot. i know u cant hear azureus calls....i breed them too.....thats why i was so amazed and confused! i am going to try and catch it on video. for all to see because there seems to be speculation about whether or not this is true. uggh!~since it is true....is he worth more lol


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Did your camera come in? Did you get the calling on tape? Am I rushing you? 
Candy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

my camera did come have to charge all day...haven't heard him call again as of yet but it will be sitting next to tank lol


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

im quite excited for this


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

I cannot wait to hear this. If it is as crazy as you say we all need to get together and write up a paper on this.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

yes that is what i am hoping for....maybe i should put hi back into the quarantine to see if he calls again....i'm waiting....i've been on the lookout too....with camera ready.....we will see...but when yiu see it....if i can catch it...it does need to be documented. as i have never heard of such a thing until now. maybe pat nabors has some more from the same bloodline? lol


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Sorry kristi,

I just find it odd that you could have someone trying to sell you a pair of illigal mysteriosus and in the same time frame you have a scientific marvel of a loud azureus call.

I will happily eat my pessimism if proved wrong.

Sally


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

sorry for you....it is true...i can't however make him do the call when i want it to happen....i have someone who can attest to this. maybe that might help. what does posting an ad about whether mysteriosis is still illegal have to do with this ad? i was only curious if they were still illegal and a guy was doing something wrong lol I will try my hardest to catch it. i wouldnt have posted to look like an idiot. I got him from pat nabors. ask him if i emailed back right away when i heard it. maybe i should post our emails about it....he said one of his auratus did the same thing for about two months and stopped and never heard it since.. :roll: i almost give up on this post....as a couple seem to question it and has caused a neg. response from a couple and a pos response from others who are actually interested as i am as to why he calls this way. Although i do think this is important....and i do breed azureus. i never hear azureus calls outside their enclosure ...whether it be quarantine or just in the viv.....mine dont atleast until i received this :| pair.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Kristy,

Ignore those who respond in a negative fashion. Even if you were inexperienced enough to have "misheard" this...that is no reason for people to come down on you on this forum. We are all curious as when I first heard your story my first instinct was "NO WAY!" as well. That being said I give the benefit of the doubt as I never cease to be amazed by nature. 

Everyone has their beliefs and some of us are VERY passionate about them...that said in the end what is important is that you are honest and ethical about what you do. No one should be telling you how and what to do if you are not asking for that input. Quite frankly many on their high horse don't completely understand the history of how these animals came into captivity or the ways we can protect them. Keeping them in captivity does ZERO for protecting the animals in the wild. The idea of releasing is a myth. To make that work you would need enormous effort such as being undertaken by Amphibian Ark and you can see from their struggles that this is 1. not at all an easy undertaking and 2. not something they would be doing at all if chytrid wasn't eradicating species faster than anyone can react.

I bothers me when folks berate people on the forums to the point where they question if they should post at all.

So...hope you have some luck on capturing that call....and making all the doubters eat crow!


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Well said Chris.
Candy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

thanks chris and candy.....i dont believe in bickering and fussing , and this board also isnt one to put up with it very much...so i keep neg responses to myself to be more professional about things. I'm just as curious as all of you.....i have ignored the neg. response....dont worry. i know from my education that anything in nature and our genes can be switched on or off causing something unusual to happen....for example...this is stupid....but there is two very rare cases out there when a couple of moms had babies with different dna than their own babies raising eyes to whether or not they kidnapped them or where they came from....the cause....they actuallly turned out to be their own twin and carried two sets of dna in differnt parts of their body...extremely rare....in saying that....nature has its ways and possibilities and nothing is 100%......coming from a scientific view of course. i'm waiting on that call again and hope to catch it and get it up and posted as soon as possible as i can't induce the calling of course. just have to wait and see. they are a young adult pair....so in saying that it could happen tnight or in a few months when they really get up to laying eggs.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Kristy,

I see from your post on another board that you are selling your collection, with your heart condition, the tornado and everything it is the right thing to do for the frogs. I guess I will have to save eating my pessimism for the person who buys your azureus.

Sally


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

lol...why be pessismistic these days. i may sell my entire collection. yes....due to recent news i will be needing dangerous surgery...but i'm am optimist at heart. All my darts have good bloodlines and i am happy about that. As for the extra azureus pair in question about the call.....i didnt post that in the other board. If i keep anything it might be just my terribillis breeding group and show my hubby how to take care of them with proper husbandry though he hates the darts lol. try to be more positive on this board. Chris and Candy who own dartfrogdepot and candy who owns i believe vivarium concepts...if it is the candy i am thinking of..... are great people and know not to let pessismism get to me. if i decide to sell my collection on this board....i'm sure it will go fast. i'm very forgiving :wink: and i hope pessismistic remarks can just be left out. i was concerned at first their was something wrong with him.....the calling male as i hear it next to me in a 190 0z tub the first time while doing my finals for school. i hope to get it caught again soon. i've been waiting but have also had to put things on the backburner due to the new news from my doc as you saw. optimism is my goal always. kristy


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Cindy is the owner of Vivarium Concepts. This Candy only owns cats, dogs, fish and frogs personally. 
I hope all works out well for you and your family.
Candy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

lol..my bad..cindy /candy...got confused...  :lol: well i appreciate the response....very kind of you. nice sentiments. i hope it does too.


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## mkeBob (May 22, 2008)

I received a pair of azureus from Pat Nabors within the last couple of weeks. The first night, after being placed in their new 40 gallon breeder home, they laid 4 eggs which turned out to be infertile. Two days later they laid six more eggs, five of which turned out to be fertile, are now at seven days, and beginning to wiggle. I too have heard, but not seen, what I believe to be loud calling that woke me from a sound sleep a few nights ago. This is my first post here and being a first time dart frog owner I didn't know what that sound was. The tank is in another room, about 20 feet from where I was sleeping and has a full three piece glass cover that is hinged in two places and fully sealed, without any vents, when closed. All I can say is that it must have been the azureus calling that made the loud sounds that woke me. Quite odd that my pair also came from Pat's lineage. Possibly something that has unintentionally been bred into one of his strains???????? Bob


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

*azreus calls heard loud*

point exactly.....i need to check the line on those cups he sent. ask him for more lol....he has sent me nice pairs before that bred 3rd day with fertile eggs. I have ordered a few pairs from him before...never hearing an azureus call.not during mating nada...as you r not supposed to. look....pat either has bred something with some sequence of weird genes in these males or this is just us both lying lol....as most have questioned it. you are not supposed to hear azureus calls. all my others..have never been heard. i too just received this pair. email pat. we need more. lol he must have a strain of males breeding out loud calls and i cant for the life of me explain it. was it loud? mine was able to be heard next to me witnessing the throat swell in a quarantine 190 0z tub before i put in temp tank...still being able to be heard. and the tank has no ventilation on the temp enclosure...so those of you who doubt us....this is some kind of proof. catch it on camera if you can. can't get it yet...trying but we can't make it happen or induce it. I'm going to email pat and maybe order another pair from same parents if he can get it....hoping that this just isnt coincidence? making my point....pat has some azureus that are calling everyone. thanks for posting!


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## mkeBob (May 22, 2008)

Kristy,
When you email Pat you can give him my frogs data: Male, BFAZ and the female AZ16. Yes, they were very loud, waking me from a sound sleep. That one time was the only time I've heard him calling. Sorry, I don't have a digital camera and unable to get pics. Maybe if you listen real hard on a quite evening you'll be able to here my male calling in Minnesota from down here in S.E. Wisconsin....Bob


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

lol bob but my cups i believe for the male has the same info. not coincidence. i'm glad someone could back me up here. i also got them 2 weeks ago....or so....he owed me a pair from a while back. get your camera ready too. we both need to be on lookout to record this....for science and for those who don't trust. just keep it next to viv....next time u hear him call...record...even if it is at night. I've got mine ready and you might here my call from here too in mn lol  :lol:


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## Greg (Dec 25, 2007)

I have been working with several azureus and have a friend that also breeds azureus and I have never heard my azureus call and my friend has never heard this either. I thing I have seen many times is an azureus sitting at a place where a male would go to call and can see that area of his throat vibrating (like you would expect if he were calling) but I never heard anything. One way to answer for this would be that he is calling but the call of an azureus is outside the frequency range at which humans can hear. Many animals can hear things well outside human hearing, a good example would be a dog whistle-you can't hear it but your dog sure can. A few possible answers to your situation could be that your hearing is a bit outside the frequncy range of the average human (this would not be that ridiculous the frequency at which people can hear does vary, mostly between men and women & children and adults). Other ideas to consider is that the frogs your hearing are not Denrobates azureus (probably not likely) or that the sounds your hearing aren't coming from the frogs but from a stow-away in the same container (the idea I would put my money on). If you are interested in frog calls you might want to check out Dendrobates luecomelas (luecs.). My friend keeps a pair of adult luecs. at his office, he has told me that he can hear the male singing all day while he is at work. He told me that his luec can get quite loud while he is calling, so loud that he is thinking he might have to remove the luecs from his office so that it doesn't bother the people in the office next to his. Also just to let you know the female luecs don't make any noise, I have a female luec in my home office (along with a few azureus) and all I can ever hear is my own heart racing when I'm working on a priority rush job.


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## Matt Mirabello (Aug 29, 2004)

kristy55303 said:


> ....for science and for those who don't trust. just keep it next to viv....next time u hear him call...record...even if it is at night. I've got mine ready and you might here my call from here too in mn lol  :lol:


please do post this to the forum when you have a recording (video) and audio to go with it. The lab of ornithology at Cornell has one of the the best collections of animals sounds in the world.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

greg...these are azureus from pat nabors line..i dont have esp or extra hearing capabilities lol....i'd say my hearing is bad due to my ex's system in his car lol....they are from pat nabors at suarian.net....i know azureus dont call. I'm no idiot here. I have breeding azureus and tads up to my ears. But these azureus do call and are very loud. I'm not looking for calling darts. I have leucs and plenty more.. THEY R AZUREUS PAT NABORS LINE kristy


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

Have you heard anymore loud calling from your frog?


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

no...due to needing surgery i sold the pair as there would be no one experienced enough to take care of them and i didint expect the surgery to go as well as it did. the guy i sold the pair to...heard it himself for a few days but until they started laying eggs for him, he hasn't heard it since. I will hopefully get him to post about it. this is the second azureus call from the same line on pat nabors cups i have heard of. I will call him and hopefully he can post something about it. by the way he had no crix or any other frogs in the house at the time, saw it with his own eyes and ears too. He is thinking it might have been just stress? who knows, all i know is the fact that i have heard this loud azureus call ....would happen at night.....and came from the same line on the cups that me and another person ordered from pat nabors in the same week. Actually i take that back, i didn't order mine it was an exchange for a pair i felt was incorrectly sexed accidentally. so Pat was kind enough to send me a new pair at no cost and i returned the pair in question that would fight, and the new pair arrived the same week with the same lines written on the cup as the above person who also had a loud azureus call.  kristy


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

So you had your surgery and all is well?
Candy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

yep..thought they were going to do the classic open heart and at the last minute they decided to do a new procedure that is minimally invasive....it has benefits....less bleeding..less scarring...and no open heart. so i have a small scar and a few pencil scars on left side of my chest from some central lines and what not still...but recovery time is awesome for this procedure...normal 3-5 days in hospital and two weeks recovery without complications of course. it went well. i went home on 4th day and feel so much better...didnt realize how bad i was needing the valve surgery until after i got it. my stamina is much better and although i still feel some pain and have to take a lot of heart medications for it...i feel really good...and am glad they didnt do the classic surgery and am still here for my family and children. I am getting back into hobby now because it is such a joy for me and i love these amazing creatures. I wish i didnt have to sell off my collection cuz i miss them...but what do you do when you have no choice? i am on the lookout once again for breeding pairs or adults as usual. I love to breed them and care for them. Its like my passion i have for oil painting.....it just comes naturally i guess. speaking of which...i should get some new canvases and paint some darts....that would be really nice. darts are outstandingly amzing creatures....addicting to say the least and demanding lol kristy


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Oh I would love to have an oil painting above my viv. That would be awesome. You have to post your paintings once you do them.
Candy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

so be it candy....let me get the vivs constructed first :wink: i thought it would be really nice too to paint pictures of my darts.....i love oil painting.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I love things people make themselves...I try to be crafty and succeed about 50% of the time.
Candy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

you now crafy i can't do lol except oil paint....i have a hard time putting together the dart tanks alone! trying for the more elaborate crafty styles now. :wink: Especially for the showroom vivs....but my breeder tanks i think will be much simpler....but nice as well....ordered so much for them...just have to get the backgrounds on and the new plants ordered.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I am getting help from a board member for my next tank. He is coming over this weekend to help with the background which seems to be my biggest challenge. Some hobbies I excel at...designing a viv is not one of them. The crafts I can do is sewing, beading, scrapbooking, x-stitching, crochet (sp?), knitting, needlepoint, ceramic painting but spraying GS and carving it to make it look good...can't do. I'm suzie freaking homemaker when it comes to girly boring crap but making a glass box look good...I missed the boat on this one.
Candy

BTW...talk about a hijacked thread.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

not a problem the customer can vouch for me with the azureus pair i sold to him.....should have donated them to science maybe? wish i had help with a viv.....but i dont know many people in mn that knows how to do it??? kristy  lucky bum :wink:


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## Sarkany (Mar 11, 2008)

Greg said:


> One way to answer for this would be that he is calling but the call of an azureus is outside the frequency range at which humans can hear.


Hm, no, don't think so. Got two male Nominat tincs (2.1 tank); I can hear them calling (or I guess it could just be one of them) with the terrarium closed (well, it is an Exo Terra, it's never really "closed" :wink _and_ from across the room (three meters), whereas other people who've tried to hear them either a) can't hear them or b) can only hear them when the terrarium's open. Mind you not that many people have tried with my tincs yet; three in fact. I guess it just depends on the person's hearing ability whether they can hear them (me, I've got rather good hearing but am blind as a bat :roll: ). Since azureus are tincs I'd guess the same holds true for them.
Of course, this doesn't explain kristy's azureus. Oh well, just a thought.


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