# Sick Basti - help appreciated



## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Fellow froggers,

I have a sick Bastimentos and could use some help with identification and treatment options. Here are some details:

I received 3 Bastis (2014 imports) nearly 8 weeks ago from a reputable frogger. The frogs were tested prior to shipping. The frogs have been well maintained in a temporary setup that was new and disinfected. All materials and objects in the enclosure were cleaned, disinfected, and previously frog-free. There was a LECA false bottom, ABG substrate, plenty of oak leaf and magnolia leaf litter and one brom. There was proper humidity in the enclosure with appropriate ventilation. Temps were maintained at 70-80. Frogs had springs in the enclosure and were also fed melanogasters supplemented with Repashy Cal Plus (kept appropriately and less than 6 months old) at each feeding and Repashy Vitamin A once a month.

A few days ago, one of the frogs was seen to have a large dark patch on dorsal and ventral sides (pics below). He is eating (although not a lot). I am keeping him mainly on springs right now, but still trying flies. The other two are isolated and not showing any signs of this affliction. It is difficult to tell, but appears possibly fungal? In order to save him while awaiting the opportunity to test, I began treatment using terbanifine HCl baths for 5 minutes/day. No improvement to date, but does not seem to be spreading anymore either. The ARAV vet that I found about an hour from me is out until next week. I am going to get swabs to a lab; however, where do I begin? After much research, this does not seem to look like chytrid or ranavirus, which are common tests. There are many other tests.

The question is, does anyone have any advice for me? Has anyone experienced or seen anything quite like this? What do I test for in addition to chytrid and rana?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Well, he is looking a lot worse these days, despite treatment


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## erik s (Apr 12, 2010)

The person that sold you the frogs had them tested!!!?????....is he/ her aware of whats happening to this animal? ... I'm by far from being an expert on amphibian disease or fungal issues. ...but how was this problem not detected?....or could this be an unseen/ unknown condition????


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

The seller is aware and has not seen this issue before either. I am a bit surprised that with all of the experience in this forum that nobody has seen anything quite like this. Either way, the care of my frog is being guided by a vet and I will certainly keep everyone updated as to how this plays out. I hope that isn't too late for my frog; however, at least this can serve as an opportunity for all of us to learn from this experience. I want to thank those of you who reached out to me to help!


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Those are some scary pics. Is the vet treating it for fungus? Hope it works out--poor little fella.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

oldlady25715 said:


> Those are some scary pics. Is the vet treating it for fungus? Hope it works out--poor little fella.


Thanks Aaron. Aren't they? I haven't run into anything like this and I am extremely concerned. I feel horrible for the little guy and I sure hope all of this works. The doc is treating for severe dermatitis (bacterial, fungal, or both); therefore there are two meds that are administered. I will keep everyone updated with the progress.


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## Tincman (Jan 18, 2013)

ITs really cool that you are trying your best for the frog, speaks volumes to where your priorities are, with the animal like theyre supposed to be. I love seeing that, makes me not mind selling frogs when I see people concerned & willign to go the extra mile to try & save them. Good luck!


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Any updates?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks for asking. I wish I had an awesome update, but things are not progressing how I would have hoped. With that said, he is still alive and kicking, and I am in touch with the vet to ensure we are continuing down the right path. Let me know what you all think.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Thanks for the update, but yeah the frogs doesn't look good colorwise. Its weight however doesn't look too bad yet. It is still eating and active?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

oldlady25715 said:


> Thanks for the update, but yeah the frogs doesn't look good colorwise. Its weight however doesn't look too bad yet. It is still eating and active?


Certainly not eating like I would hope, but I am catching him taking down some springs, but pretty much ignoring flies. He is still pretty active so far. I would love to see that color improve.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Its a bummer for sure. I'm surprised there haven't been more comments trying to diagnose the issue. Have these symptoms never been seen before after having ruled-out cythrid?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

I am a little surprised as well that, with all of this experience, nobody has seen anything like this. Oh well. I heard back from the doc and he reassured me that frogs take a long time to heal and just to give it more time with the treatments we are currently giving. Here is a pic of him from just a few minutes ago...


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Well folks, I have an update that is both good and bad.

The good is that he still seems to be eating springs okay and is maintaining his weight. Still not eating flies, but a friend has given me a few extra types of food to feed him.

The bad is that whatever is on his skin is not getting any better despite treatment up to this point...keeping fingers crossed


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Just posting an update on the Basti. Here he is today without apparent loss of appetite or activity, but has maintained the crazy skin color. Someone suggested this could be a issue with melanin (or other color producing cells)? Part of their rationale is that any disease process that is that extensive and has lasted that long would likely have already killed the frog. Thoughts?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Another update. Here is a pic of him today. He seems to be doing well...better than he looks anyway . He is active and eating. I am still not hearing him call, but I can only ask for so much. He even looks like he is gaining some color back!


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## Igofastr (Jan 16, 2015)

The fact that he's alive today is quite amazing, to me anyway.

I suppose the pigmentation could still be an indication of active disease, but if it is, that frog is a real fighter. Another thing to consider is that the hyperpigmentation could be associated with scarring. Happens in people, so I don't know why it couldn't happen in a amphibian.

How are the other frogs doing? I assume OK.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Agreed. The vet also thinks that is just scarring. We did lose the female in the group, but she had an injured leg it looked like, and I'm guessing it was that and not necessarily this affliction. The third one (the juvenile) is doing well. Lost some weight at first, but is doing well now. This is a pic of the juvi.











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## nagasaki (Feb 9, 2012)

way to go in trying & giving Best to your frogs>> What did the Vet find in Testing?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

nagasaki said:


> way to go in trying & giving Best to your frogs>> What did the Vet find in Testing?



Actually no! I don't believe any tests were ran beyond Rana and Chytrid...after that I think he was treating for a possibility of an unidentified bacteria or fungal infection. Nobody that I have heard from has seen anything quite like this. I did have a pathologist lined up for a necropsy if it came to that, but thankfully it has not! 


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Still improving his color!










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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Another cool update...he just started calling again! We haven't heard that sound in months!


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Celtic Aaron said:


> Still improving his color!
> 
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> ...


That's great news, and very useful that you are documenting it.


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## Drewbacca (Apr 5, 2014)

Celtic Aaron said:


> Another cool update...he just started calling again! We haven't heard that sound in months!


That is excellent news! The little buddy is a fighter for sure. It's been a great opportunity for all of us to watch the progression of this guy since the beginning. Kind of like when somebody in a classroom raises their hand to ask a question, and then come to find out that a lot of other people had wondered the same question as well. Around my neck of the woods, there isn't really any local vet that knows much about the biological make up of amphibians. It is great for our hobby that others such as yourself, take the lead when asking questions regarding health issues. And more importantly, the documentation of it... Well done. And bravo to the little frog for his ongoing recovery! 

-Drew


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

Well folks, we are about 5 months in now and here is an update. Still very active and calling. Skin is improving very, very slowly!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

You and your vet have done a great job!


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

rigel10 said:


> You and your vet have done a great job!


Heck, our job was easy...he is the fighter! With that said, I am very thankful to belong to a community like this where so many people are willing to help, even though this was a weird scenario that nobody has seen (that I have spoken to).


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

And here he is today...





























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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow, fantastic job. He looks good. 
Thank you, for the update


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

Wow.. congrats to you. Amazing accomplishment getting him back to health.

Still no idea what it was?

What was the treatment regiment you had him going through?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

erikm said:


> Wow.. congrats to you. Amazing accomplishment getting him back to health.
> 
> 
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> ...



No idea, but people are still trying to help. The problem is what to test him for. He was negative for the normal screening, but there are so many possibilities and everything is tested individually. He was treated for 3 weeks with silver sulfadiazine and Baytril. His skin has slowly improved, but as you can see is still affected. The vet that treated him thinks it's scarring. I am still concerned about ever putting him with another frog though just in case he is a carrier for something.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

That frog has to be commended for being such a little fighter and you as well for being a diligent keeper! 

Could it be nothing more then a giant bruise?

gary


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

bulbophyllum said:


> That frog has to be commended for being such a little fighter and you as well for being a diligent keeper!
> 
> 
> 
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Still have people with much more education and experience helping me with him, but I haven't been told it's a bruise. For sure he is a fighter though! Thanks.


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## Drewbacca (Apr 5, 2014)

Glad to see that your little buddy is improving. I absolutely hate losing frogs...

-Drew


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

He looks healthy to me.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

rigel10 said:


> He looks healthy to me.



When it first happened, there was definitely a behavior change; however, a few months after treatment, he started calling again and behaving normally. Now it's just the little black skin, that seems to be slowly receding.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

But what your vet has thought about this stain? That is, I mean, what has caused this stain?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

rigel10 said:


> But what your vet has thought about this stain? That is, I mean, what has caused this stain?


The thought was that it was a severe case of dermatitis. What the particular cause of the dermatitis was is unknown. After treatment, he figured what was left was scarring and that it would improve very slowly, because amphibians do not put a lot of energy into healing.


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