# An alternative clay Background



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

So, while cleaning out my Uromastyx tank, I decided to do a little test with it's "sand" (It's a mix of different kinds, ill be switching it all out later...). The sand is mainly Zoo Med Excavator Clay Burrowing Substrate which is supposedly just "natural" clay (couldn't find exact ingredients, so if somebody could provide that, it'd be great). I did a couple tests and like it says, once wet, it forms a rock hard surface and ony loosens when it is scratched (or in our case roots...). 

Anyways, I tried it on a variety of different surfaces (curved glass, straight glass, and some styrofoam) and It stuck to all, even after it dried...and of the plants I tried (F.pumila and some random vine I had) the roots took to it easily and even broke through it and latched on.

SOOOOO... could this be used as a background for tanks?
here's how I see it;

PRO'S:
-doesn't need to stay wet
-plants like it
-easy as clay (add water, and slap it on)
-ready to use immediately, unlike kitty litter which requires soaking
-would work to create banks of rivers with out being washed away
-could be used in the clay substrate
-and it looks pretty nice (nice redish colour to it, like what you'd see in a desert, or red clay in a forest...pretty obvious there...) 
-looks kinda like redart clay(in terms of colour)

CON'S:
-expensive ($16/bag)
-colour (if you don't like the red), but I'd imagine mixing different sands, or pigments, could give you your desired colour effect.


I'm still doing a couple experiments (colour and plants), so I'll post what I find out as I go...


What do you guys think?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thats some cool stuff. i had no idea such a product existed.

james


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

ya, it's pretty nice... what do others think of this as an alternative?


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## jeffdart (May 21, 2008)

Got any pictures?


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

I'll try to get pics up some time tomorrow...


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Sounds interesting. I gave up on kitty litter and got some bentonite clay powder from a water well drilling supplier. Now I can dry mix that with powdered Redart clay and turface and then wet the mixture. Does the clay product you have crack when it dries? If not, then it's probably kaolinite clay - bentonite shrinks and swells as it dries and is rehydrated. Unless there is some chemical additive, I'd say it sounds like a great option for those who don't want to mess with kitty litter or running around looking for several products from different suppliers.


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## jeffdart (May 21, 2008)

Cool, might be a great soil additive as well.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

JimO said:


> Sounds interesting. I gave up on kitty litter and got some bentonite clay powder from a water well drilling supplier. Now I can dry mix that with powdered Redart clay and turface and then wet the mixture. Does the clay product you have crack when it dries? If not, then it's probably kaolinite clay - bentonite shrinks and swells as it dries and is rehydrated. Unless there is some chemical additive, I'd say it sounds like a great option for those who don't want to mess with kitty litter or running around looking for several products from different suppliers.


It doesn't crack. it could be kaolinite clay...

I should add that it hardens underwater....(dunno why i should add that...just felt like i needed to haha)



> Cool, might be a great soil additive as well.


I'm also seeing how plants do in it (the clay and peat, just a basic mix) But I agree, think it'll be easier than having to soak the kitty litter, dry it, then break it up. for this clay, you just add water and smash it with a hammer... it removes like 3 steps...


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## Hak (Jul 10, 2005)

I haven't messed with or felt the stuff but I would give it some test runs in consistently wet or submerged areas before using it near or as part of a water feature. I would think that if it is loose enough to scratch or dig a burrow in, it would also erode or possibly disolve in short order. Especially if it is exposed to flowing water.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Hak said:


> I haven't messed with or felt the stuff but I would give it some test runs in consistently wet or submerged areas before using it near or as part of a water feature. I would think that if it is loose enough to scratch or dig a burrow in, it would also erode or possibly disolve in short order. Especially if it is exposed to flowing water.


I did a couple similar experiments, and as for contantly submerged, after about 4 weeks, it was still "rock hard" and was dry on the bottom 2/3 of it. I also tested the running water for a week, and got the same results, no erosion. I'll try it again (maybe somebody would be willing to do some experiments aswell???) with a few different scenerios


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Erosion shouldn't be a problem. As Ed points out in his clay discussion threads, if you start with a very low flow rate, whether it be a drip wall or waterfall, the surface of the clay will form a biofilm of algae, mold, bacterial slime, etc. It's not very attractive at first, but it gives it some stability and prevents erosion. Over time, mosses and vines will overgrow the biofilm. I've had success with fern panel and great stuff backgrounds, but now that I've tried clay on a half dozen vivs, I'll never use anything else.

One thing I do is glue a few pieces of cork bark to the glass before applying the clay. It gives the clay some support and is the basis for the waterfalls or stream features I have in all of my vivs.


boabab95 said:


> I did a couple similar experiments, and as for contantly submerged, after about 4 weeks, it was still "rock hard" and was dry on the bottom 2/3 of it. I also tested the running water for a week, and got the same results, no erosion. I'll try it again (maybe somebody would be willing to do some experiments aswell???) with a few different scenerios


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

I have used it in a Tank for a Marble Gecko.

It does Crack but still holds up without falling off Glass.

It does erode. I can see it erode when Misted Heavily.

I do like the look.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

The product details warns about impaction if ingested, but I guess that goes for any type of clay based product.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I had issues with pigment leaching when trying this product for the first time (Zoo Med sent out trial bags to a bunch of pet stores, and I got to mess with it). I also found that it eventually cracked and fell apart (about a year later), even if kept moist. I believe the back of the bag does advise to not feed your herps on this substrate.


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## devder1 (Oct 2, 2010)

i used this in a bearded dragon tank before and it is super easy to use, i might give this a try as a background, what the worst that can happen, im out $15?


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

devder1 said:


> i used this in a bearded dragon tank before and it is super easy to use, i might give this a try as a background, what the worst that can happen, im out $15?


and no background...

after some testing[water flow, humid to dry, dry to humid, underwater] it didnt end up staying up...i did it with pure bag and a mixed bag... it didn't work...

not to mention extremely dusty... and might be a little too alkaline...


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## devder1 (Oct 2, 2010)

well im gonna add some sphagnum to it as well and see how it goes


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

i tried all of that...it just eroded and brought the organics with it...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Did anyone ask ZooMed for a MSDS on it? That would help identify what is in it.. 

Ed


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

yes i have it...ill try to find it


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

ok, i hope this link works:

Link

if not send me you e-mail because its too big to add as an attachment

***edit***
here's a screenshot of the "ingredients":


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Actually that does explain it and the reason it functioned the way you reported. It is a form of adobe clay.. Bentonite (sodium) is used to line ponds, water retention drain sites, and geothermal drill holes (to name a few), as it will prevent penetration to some extent by water. The addition of the sand to the clay allows it to set as you describe and the amount of sand enables it to be readily dug out by the animal yet retain its shape. 

Ed


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