# How long until they'll breed?



## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

Hi! I'm new to the dart frog game and was just wondering how long until they Start laying eggs? I have a male and female leucomelas and they love to stick together in their hidey holes. They are in a 12x24x12 terrarium with a good amount of live plants, hiding spots, and water pools. I've heard that disturbing/changing terrariums can stress them and keep them from breeding for up to a month, is this true? Any guess' or advice would be great! Can't wait until I can start watching for eggs!


Thanks everyone,
Lexi


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

They have to be around a year old to be breeding age. After that it depends on a bunch of different things. You'll hear calling first and then see the female courting by chasing the male around and rubbing his back.


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

They are about 11 months out of water. The breeder i got them from said the male has been calling. I didn't know about the chasing that's neat thank you! You can also trick them into thinking its the rainy season to help things along correct? Not that I want to rush them we have pleanty of time haha


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## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Yes, they will breed at around 12 months. However, they do not reach sexual maturity until 24 months. Which is why alot of people report first clutches are no good or first frogs are small. And since you said they are 11 months oow, I assume you are breeding siblings. I would just relax and not get in a hurry. It may be some time before you get viable eggs. 

Personally, I have usually waited until 20 or so months before pairing up.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

LexiandScott said:


> They are about 11 months out of water. The breeder i got them from said the male has been calling. I didn't know about the chasing that's neat thank you! You can also trick them into thinking its the rainy season to help things along correct? Not that I want to rush them we have pleanty of time haha


Correct, heavy misting and extra feeding can entice them to breed


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

They seem happy together with plenty of room so I think I'll keep them together but thanks a ton guys and happy frogging?!


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Scott Richardson said:


> Yes, they will breed at around 12 months. However, they do not reach sexual maturity until 24 months. Which is why alot of people report first clutches are no good or first frogs are small. And since you said they are 11 months oow, I assume you are breeding siblings. I would just relax and not get in a hurry. It may be some time before you get viable eggs.
> 
> Personally, I have usually waited until 20 or so months before pairing up.


Sorry Scott, but that info seems a bit contradictory? They will breed at age 12 months but do not reach sexual maturity until 24 months?????

Lexi, Leucs usually reach maturity around 10-14 months of age. They can reach sexual maturity slightly sooner if fed very heavily, but why rush things? Maturity is, alot of times, more a function of size than it is with simply age/a number. You will most likely find that if you let them reach full size first, you will get healthier eggs, and larger clutches. Leucs come from Venezuela and Guyana, and that area has a very dry season and a wet season. Leucs can be triggered into breeding by simulating the wet season with lots of misting. Male leucs can sometimes go for long stretches without calling, or any breedign behavior, and it can be difficult to trigger them sometimes. But when they get going, they are pretty consistent. When the males starts calling, you will usually see a very insistent female following him around, rubbing her front foot on the males back, "courting" him. If you see this, make sure you've got somewhere for them to lay eggs. A petri dish and coco hut are what is used most often. 5-7 eggs are the norm with clutches as large as 17 eggs being reported.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Scott is correct, just because a frog can breed doesn't mean it's mature. Most larger frogs can take some time to become fully mature. Tincs also take about two years to fully mature.


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

My leucs look about fill sized compaired to my 2 year old proven bakhui pair. The female may be a tad smaller. Not looking to rush anything I just don't want to over look any clutches, I'm probably just paranoid.


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## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

pdfCrazy said:


> Sorry Scott, but that info seems a bit contradictory? They will breed at age 12 months but do not reach sexual maturity until 24 months?????
> .


Yeah ok!!
Lexi,
You are asking alot of questions and that is awesome. Alot of books on dart frogs are outdated because they have to reclassify everything every few years instead of keeping it simple. But they still have good info in them. 
Jason Juchems is a sponsor (poisonfrogs.net) and has written a recent book. I suggest it. Also, to get you started, read this link. 

animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/accounts/Dendrobates_leucomelas/

Don't get all your info from dendroboard.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

This isn't a smartass answer, it's the truth. They'll breed when they're ready and not a moment before.
Frogs mature at different rates, and sizes. In order to grow big healthy frogs the smart thing to do would be to separate them for another 6 months or so and let them continue to grow and mature and then put them together and see what happens.

How long have you had these leucs or dart frogs in general? Just curious because I see a lot of posts with you asking really newbie, basic questions, yet you also have acquired new frogs with no previous knowledge of the husbandry of these frogs. I always find it's best for the frogs to do research on husbandry and the care of specific species before purchasing them.


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

I've had then for two weeks but I've had reptiles/amphibians for years. I bought them paired so I kept them paired. All I'm trying to do is make sure I'm doing shit correct so they can be healthy. I'm not trying to force them to breed I was only curious and told they were a breeding pair weather they are proven or mot i do not know. Ya I'm new to dart frogs and I'm doing research ahh. I bet everyone on this site still learns new things no matter how long they've had their frogs. I bought mine off a breeder who was forced to shut down by their landlord. So sorry I was unprepared when I bought them, i figured they were better off with us than the humane society that destroys reptiles and amphibians after 3 days. Next time I would appreciate it if you treated me with a little more respect before assuming I am some naive girl who wanted some cool looking frogs. Thanks and have a good day.


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## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Lexi, 
Jon isn't trying to bash you or discourage you. Dart frogs are alot more sensitive than say tree frogs and bearded dragons or leopard geckos. He asked to know how to help you. You ask questions and if you don't like the answer you disregard it. That's cool. they are your frogs. If you kill them, that is your right I guess.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Look I gave you an honest answer. I wasn't being hostile. I've had frogs that were very mature and of a breeding age yet they didn't lay eggs right away. I've had frogs that laid eggs for 8 months before one of them matured and I got any fertile eggs. It's not up to you, it's up to the frogs. 

Yeah you're new to dart frogs, and you went out and got some from a guy who was getting rid of their collection. You said it yourself, you were unprepared when you got them. So instead of doing some research for awhile and holding off on getting some frogs, perhaps letting a person with some experience get this pair of luecs, you went ahead and purchased them. Then you come here looking for every answer in the book. On top of that you go purchase more frogs, ie the patricia tads and a pair of Bahkuis, without even getting down the basics of frog husbandry with the leucs you already have. That's what I have a problem with.
I look forward to your collection sale ad in a few months.

P.S. Scott was right, I wasn't trying to bash you. Till you got your snippy little attitude on.


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks Scott and I'm sorry Jon just felt like a bit of an attack. I know they're very sensitive that's the whole reason I joined this board. There's things I need to know that I can't find online. I want to make sure everything is golden ASAP so I don't cause them harm and so I can put as little stress on them as possible. I don't mean to make a bad impression to anyone I just don't like people assuming I jumped in way over my head. My frogs and tads are doing wonderful my bakhui male has been calling like crazy so I separated the horny guys (definitely proven pair) until I can get them into a permanent enclosure.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

This forum is for asking questions and getting opinions. Not every subject has a single correct answer and there's plenty of incorrect info out there as well.
If I were to believe the article that was previosly linked, I might think that leucs carry their eggs in their mouths to the water, after laying the eggs on the undersides of leaves, or that there is enough toxins in leucs skin that they could kill me if I mishandled them.
If I read Josh's Frogs Leuc care sheet I would see that leucs mature at 6-12 months. If I went by what some people have posted here, I might think leucs need a full 2 years to mature.
This would be a sad place if every time newbie (or really anyone) asked a question they were told to research and the truth will be revealed.


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

Sorry it took a second for me to retread and apologize since I was at work. I got them from the guy two weeks ago and he messaged me yesterday saying he had a few still and it was the last day before he had to have them out of his place. I'm done trying to explain myself to you. I sincerely apologize for being rude to you and I hope there's no bad vibes between anyone. I love my frogs and they're doing great and that's what matters not how I got them or how many stupid questions I ask. Thank you for your honesty and I wish you all the luck with your frogs.


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## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Reef_Haven said:


> This forum is for asking questions and getting opinions. Not every subject has a single correct answer and there's plenty of incorrect info out there as well.
> If I were to believe the article that was previosly linked, I might think that leucs carry their eggs in their mouths to the water, after laying the eggs on the undersides of leaves, or that there is enough toxins in leucs skin that they could kill me if I mishandled them.
> If I read Josh's Frogs Leuc care sheet I would see that leucs mature at 6-12 months. If I went by what some people have posted here, I might think leucs need a full 2 years to mature.
> This would be a sad place if every time newbie (or really anyone) asked a question they were told to research and the truth will be revealed.


I believe the underside of the leaf was a misprint. The carrying eggs in the mouth is true and factual, and was observed and written about by Sean McKeown. 
Before Sean passed away a few years ago, he had over 35 years of experience working with dart frogs, and was the head zoologist for the Hawaii Zoo for many years. He was also editor of Vivarium magazine. Sean, Helmut, and Chuck are a big part of getting the hobby where we are today


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## joel grassmann (Apr 26, 2012)

It took me 2 years to get mine to finally go an I had to add more to the group srarted with 3 an had to add 2 an then wait again.


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## Sevanbanderson (7 mo ago)

They are probably the easiest, most inexpensive pets to keep. Give them what they need and they will breed. If they don't? Who cares?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Nine year old post.


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