# Which mosses to use for tree fern panels



## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

Hey everyone!

I'm attempting my first viv build using tree fern panels. I understand that at times they will grow moss or ferns from spores that may already be inside (which can take a year or longer), but I've also heard of people adding their own moss mix that has been blended with water to form a paste that they spread on the panel to speed up the growth and add new forms of moss to grow on it. 

Anyways, my question would be, has anyone here made this 'moss mixture' and if so, what type of mosses did you use? I've been looking on ebay and amazon to find different types, but seems like mostly aquatic mosses and I'm not sure if that would work or not. I do plan on keeping the background heavily misted to promote growth, but not soaked at all times.

I'm currently looking at a group of mosses that includes -

frog moss, haircap moss, cushions, reindeer lichen

I'm not sure if ANY of these would even work in the viv with the water/humidity.

EDIT: I mean that I don't know if they will work for the blended mix on the panel. I understand that they work well in vivs (just to clarify)

Now, on a completely unrelated topic, I was wondering if anyone has tried to use British Soldier Cladonia Cristatella Lichen in their vivs. It looks very interesting, but I can't find any information about it other than it is for terrarium use. That is pretty vague. I'd hate to start a new topic about it so if anyone has any experience with it, I would love to hear about it.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

There is an awesome, pre mixed bag of tropical mosses available from a DB sponsor, Folius. They can be found at folius.net. I have used it on tree fern panels with much success.

I tried using British Soldier lichen, without much luck. I believe the cause was too high humidity.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

aspidites73 said:


> There is an awesome, pre mixed bag of tropical mosses available from a DB sponsor, Folius. They can be found at folius.net. I have used it on tree fern panels with much success.
> 
> I tried using British Soldier lichen, without much luck. I believe the cause was too high humidity.


That is great! I will go check it out now. Thank you 

Sad to hear about the British Soldier lichen. I think it would be an interesting addition to the viv. There are still tons of unique plants to choose from though.

I appreciate the help.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Another thing to do is to get a bunch of mosses and mix them in a blender or coffee grinder until its a powder. grind in some spag moss too. Add some water to make a slurry and then paint it on thick, the places you want to grow mosses.


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

I did the blended moss mixture in my tank, using various mosses found at a greenhouse, and aquarium java moss. Every surface now is covered with green and its almost too much at this point (1.5 years later). I would suggest applying a mixture to areas you know will not grow moss on its own (driftwood), and then be patient and wait for the tree fern panels to grow the embeded moss spores. Youll get much denser and lower to the ground growth by waiting for it to come in naturally. Even if you dont add a moss mix everywhere, with enough moisture and frogs moving tiny bits around, it will eventually cover everything. My leaf litter was bare when I first set up my tank, and now the moss has migrated down from the driftwood and covered every inch except for the one spot I place old ff cultures.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

GRIMM said:


> I did the blended moss mixture in my tank, using various mosses found at a greenhouse, and aquarium java moss. Every surface now is covered with green and its almost too much at this point (1.5 years later). I would suggest applying a mixture to areas you know will not grow moss on its own (driftwood), and then be patient and wait for the tree fern panels to grow the embeded moss spores. Youll get much denser and lower to the ground growth by waiting for it to come in naturally. Even if you dont add a moss mix everywhere, with enough moisture and frogs moving tiny bits around, it will eventually cover everything. My leaf litter was bare when I first set up my tank, and now the moss has migrated down from the driftwood and covered every inch except for the one spot I place old ff cultures.


Really? Only a year and a half later? I do plan on having a good amount of plants in the tank as well.. and really don't want to go for the cluttered look with this viv. I'm thinking of using mopani wood. I haven't seen the actual pieces so not sure if I would want to add moss to them at this point. I'm not even sure that moss will grow on mopani. This my first time using a top opening tank, tree fern panels, and mopani wood. This is ending up to be extremely experimental. 

So am I reading this correctly? You are stating that using any amount of the moss mixture COULD turn into an unnatural looking amount of moss due to the spores being moved around? I will have a pair of oyapock tincs in the viv, so I'm not expecting tons of climbing (although they do as they wish) so would this make a difference? My leucs are everywhere in their viv so I could see how this would be very true with them. I'd rather be safe than sorry, but if I was able to just add a bit of the moss mixture in areas without it spreading like crazy, I would like to consider that. 

This is where being able to gather the experience and opinions on this board is truly a great thing.


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Moriko said:


> Really? Only a year and a half later? I do plan on having a good amount of plants in the tank as well.. and really don't want to go for the cluttered look with this viv. I'm thinking of using mopani wood. I haven't seen the actual pieces so not sure if I would want to add moss to them at this point. I'm not even sure that moss will grow on mopani. This my first time using a top opening tank, tree fern panels, and mopani wood. This is ending up to be extremely experimental.
> 
> So am I reading this correctly? You are stating that using any amount of the moss mixture COULD turn into an unnatural looking amount of moss due to the spores being moved around? I will have a pair of oyapock tincs in the viv, so I'm not expecting tons of climbing (although they do as they wish) so would this make a difference? My leucs are everywhere in their viv so I could see how this would be very true with them. I'd rather be safe than sorry, but if I was able to just add a bit of the moss mixture in areas without it spreading like crazy, I would like to consider that.
> 
> This is where being able to gather the experience and opinions on this board is truly a great thing.


Well to be clear, it does not look unnatural or bad....It looks fricken awesome. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/65988-peninsula-62.html

It just needs a little bit of managing. On occasion I will press the moss down off the glass and make to make it less "pillowy" if that is a word. When you make a moss mixture, sphagnum is also added. This helps the mix retain moisture very well, so even if a tiny bit gets moved you will still see moss grow from it. The amount it spreads also will depend on how good you lighting is and how moist your tank is overall though.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

GRIMM said:


> Well to be clear, it does not look unnatural or bad....It looks fricken awesome.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/65988-peninsula-62.html
> 
> It just needs a little bit of managing. On occasion I will press the moss down off the glass and make to make it less "pillowy" if that is a word. When you make a moss mixture, sphagnum is also added. This helps the mix retain moisture very well, so even if a tiny bit gets moved you will still see moss grow from it. The amount it spreads also will depend on how good you lighting is and how moist your tank is overall though.


Wow! That is a gorgeous viv! A pretty awesome video as well. I can only imagine how long it took to catch all of your frogs at such amazing times. I've only been lucky enough to watch mine shed a few times lol. I can't wait until breeding starts to occur. It will be fascinating to watch.

I can see what you mean about how it could easily become overrun. I currently only have one viv at the moment.. and only have plans of 3 total in the near future. I think I may be able to manage the upkeep as long as I don't go overboard with the paste. 

One more question, if you don't mind. You said that with small amounts being moved, it will be able to continue growing. I completely understand that... however.. would pressing the 'mix' into the tree fern panels cut down on the amount of moss that 'escapes' the background? Would that even matter with the amount of misting that it will need? I'm thinking I may just try to imagine the growth of the plants being put into that space and maybe paint a mosaic of moss around where the growth would be. Is that just wishful thinking? I can see myself being tedious with painting it only to find that a year later it is a big green blob of moss. 

Well.. that one question turned into 3.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

I think this is the same moss mix that Folius sells, it grows very well on xaxim


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm very interested in this thread . Would the moss mix work on a piece of manzanita that's wrapped in sphagnum ?


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Moriko said:


> One more question, if you don't mind. You said that with small amounts being moved, it will be able to continue growing. I completely understand that... however.. would pressing the 'mix' into the tree fern panels cut down on the amount of moss that 'escapes' the background? Would that even matter with the amount of misting that it will need? I'm thinking I may just try to imagine the growth of the plants being put into that space and maybe paint a mosaic of moss around where the growth would be. Is that just wishful thinking? I can see myself being tedious with painting it only to find that a year later it is a big green blob of moss.


It may help, but since the panels are most likely vertical some bits will fall and be moved. All it takes is for you to remove the moss by hand though once you see it growing somewhere you dont want. Im too lazy for that. And yes, planning where plants will go first is a good practice, no matter if you are adding a moss mix or not.



JonRich said:


> I'm very interested in this thread . Would the moss mix work on a piece of manzanita that's wrapped in sphagnum ?


You dont need to wrap the driftwood in sphagnum first. Just blend some in the mixture and it will hold enough moisture to get the moss started. Misting more in the beginning months of a newly set up tank will really help the moss establish. Once it gets going, you can cut back and it will acclimate. And if you have a tank long enough, they will evolve. Moss will move to areas it likes most. Some may grow, then die off, and explode in other areas. It is different tank to tank.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Kool. I just ordered some from Folius.


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## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

I just got my order from Folius on Friday, mixed it with Josh's Frogs sheet moss and frog moss, and a little Java, spread it all over, hopefully it turns out well. Folius by itself is much easier to apply then combining all together.


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## roberthvalera (Jun 9, 2006)

In my experience moss just shows up when you keep tree fern wet and well lit. I just mash dried sphagnum moss into my tree fern walls and they always green up without any introduced species. Notice how the moss in the pick above is growing on the square of tree fern but not on the greatstuff?


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

JonRich said:


> I'm very interested in this thread . Would the moss mix work on a piece of manzanita that's wrapped in sphagnum ?


Grimm is correct--but bear in mind, manzanita will eventually deteriorate in humid situations (although it takes a few years). For humid tanks, ghost wood is better than manzanita or grape wood.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Groundhog said:


> Grimm is correct--but bear in mind, manzanita will eventually deteriorate in humid situations (although it takes a few years). For humid tanks, ghost wood is better than manzanita or grape wood.


It's what I had available in the dimensions I liked. But I plan on making changes to this tank overtime as I learn more. 

Are you coming Friday? We have to talk. About both Broms and Moss!!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

So.. just my luck.. when I go to buy the moss mix it is sold out lol. Is there any chance that blending Josh's Frogs sheet moss would work? I have some of that.. as well as peat moss soil. Not sure that it would really give the look that I'm going for (or work for that matter), but I'm starting the build in the next few days and don't really have time for other options.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Has anyone used this moss mix in an established viv once the frogs have already been introduced?


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I sort of cheated when I experimented with this with the intent to sell pre-grown background panels. It worked pretty well but unfortunately didn't get to a point where I could offer them.

What I did was just take the tree fern and lay them in large plastic shoe boxes or you could use an empty fish tank. I filled the bottom with water until it was maybe 1/4-1/2 the way up the tree fern. All you really need is enough for the water to wick up towards the surface. Then I took pieces of whatever kind of moss I wanted and sprinkled it over the tree fern. Lots of light and a liiiiitle bit of fertilizer in the water and these things were fully covered in about 2 months. I have pictures but I'll have to dig them up when I get some time and re-host them for posting.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

Frogtofall said:


> I sort of cheated when I experimented with this with the intent to sell pre-grown background panels. It worked pretty well but unfortunately didn't get to a point where I could offer them.
> 
> What I did was just take the tree fern and lay them in large plastic shoe boxes or you could use an empty fish tank. I filled the bottom with water until it was maybe 1/4-1/2 the way up the tree fern. All you really need is enough for the water to wick up towards the surface. Then I took pieces of whatever kind of moss I wanted and sprinkled it over the tree fern. Lots of light and a liiiiitle bit of fertilizer in the water and these things were fully covered in about 2 months. I have pictures but I'll have to dig them up when I get some time and re-host them for posting.


Very good to know. Thanks!

Would it be a bad idea to let them wick water while in the viv? They are supposed to be kept moist anyways, and if it promotes the moss growth it would make it easier.. but would it have any harmful effects?


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Moriko said:


> Very good to know. Thanks!
> 
> Would it be a bad idea to let them wick water while in the viv? They are supposed to be kept moist anyways, and if it promotes the moss growth it would make it easier.. but would it have any harmful effects?


I'm not sure how well they would wick water being vertically oriented. It may only make it a couple inches up each panel. Laying horizontally, it was no problem b/c the typical piece is only ~2" thick.

It wouldn't hurt anything so long as whatever is growing on it doesn't mind the moisture. Usually plants will migrate and acclimate accordingly. If you start plants there, they may not like it unless they are more aquatic type plants.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Moriko said:


> Very good to know. Thanks!
> 
> Would it be a bad idea to let them wick water while in the viv? They are supposed to be kept moist anyways, and if it promotes the moss growth it would make it easier.. but would it have any harmful effects?


If they are in contact with the substrate they will wick a little, similar to cork but probably not as much, and I think I see about a max of 6 inches of visible wicking with cork in most setups (i don't know/remember).... possibly more, like when cork panels are several inches into deep water (probably increasing water pressure facilitates more wicking) and the atmosphere is kept extremely humid all the time (like 90% +). I think in most good and fairly standard setups you will see a few inches of wicking action and then things will be mostly dry, or just moist (depending on the material, dirt/rock/cork or fern) except shortly after a misting/drip wall activation ...and then things get a chance to mostly dry out except near the substrate layer. 

Whether you want wicking or not can depend on your setup...If you hand mist, and tend to forget a lot then a background in contact with a substrate, and sucking up moisture from it to stay moist can be a very handy thing....but if you run a mist system or especially something like a drip wall/waterfall that splashes then setting it up so that background or areas near any sources of moisture do not wick, or do so minimally is usually a good thing...and the less stuff is soaked the longer tends to last so the more you can keep individual elements of your viv so they last the longest they can (while still maintaining a suitable envirionment for plants/animals) the longer and likely healthier your viv will be. 

In dripwall/waterfall setups or at pond edges, I often have a small area of very fast substrate that minimizes wicking, or saturation of the ground substrate from a drip wall/lines running down a background.... basically a 1-2 inch strip of gravel running the length of the tank along the back glass means that all the drip wall/misting water that runs off the background goes straight into the drainage layer and doesn't saturate the rest of my soil...but the soil stays moist. Then you hide that with plants/hardscape elements and contour your land so everything looks natural and your drainage strip is hidden from view.


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