# Work in progress... 24x18x24



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Here is the replacement for my current disaster of a vivarium housing my auratus.

It is a work in progress.

I tried to do a 'tree' theme with bromeliads as flowers and cascading vines draping from the canopy. I am really disappointed in the pilea "jobes tears" I got. They are long and ropey and all the leaves are falling off  

I am also going to try my hand at a couple cheap orchids. 

I am not going to plant everything until the vivarium is on the shelf where the current vivarium sits. I will let it do it's grow out the way it is.

Stats:
Exo terra 24x18x24
False bottom

Background:
ZooMed cork tile 18x24
3 small cork rounds cut to specs
tree fern totem pieces
net pots


Tree:
1/2'' pvc base
cork round
5'' net pot
tree fern totem pieces


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Mossified.

I used a blend of NEHerp moss slurry and pre-processed sheet moss.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Planted this tank and now there's a trio of R. ventrimaculatus 'blackwater' in there. I have a few more film canisters and I want to add a couple broms to the right side.

Here's a few pictures. It still needs to grow in some, but with the fast growth rate I've been getting from these LEDs I will be pruning in no time.

Just the background and 32x3watt beamswork EVO LED


Planted with both Finnex 24/7 and beamswork LEDs on


----------



## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

Nice job, the tank looks great!


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

erikm said:


> Nice job, the tank looks great!


Thanks! 

Can't wait until it grows in!


----------



## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanks for including the light specs. Tank looks great . Please keep us updated.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

Did you pull all the optics out of your beamswork?


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Darrell S said:


> Thanks for including the light specs. Tank looks great . Please keep us updated.


No problem. Happy to share any equipment related questions.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TJ_Burton said:


> Did you pull all the optics out of your beamswork?


No I left it as is. Each led has its own lens. It helps focus the light downward.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

FrogTim said:


> No I left it as is. Each led has its own lens. It helps focus the light downward.


The optics on these fixtures are designed to help with penetration through water; you usually end up with a patchwork of hot spots with the optics on when used in this type of application unless the fixture is quite high up. You'll have a greater spread of diffused light that will reach all corners of the vivarium evenly if you run the fixture without them.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TJ_Burton said:


> The optics on these fixtures are designed to help with penetration through water; you usually end up with a patchwork of hot spots with the optics on when used in this type of application unless the fixture is quite high up. You'll have a greater spread of diffused light that will reach all corners of the vivarium evenly if you run the fixture without them.


Where did you get this information?

My understanding is that the optics focus the light and increase penetration. A light without optics creates a bright, diffused light great for viewing but not so great for plants. My light on its feet about 5" above the the tank creates an even footprint that covers the entire tank floor and about 8" around the tank too. I only have high light demanding plants up top so I am not too worried about burning. My finnex 24/7 provides led without optics which is bright and diffuse but it isn't the best for plants.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

FrogTim said:


> Where did you get this information?
> 
> My understanding is that the optics focus the light and increase penetration. A light without optics creates a bright, diffused light great for viewing but not so great for plants. My light on its feet about 5" above the the tank creates an even footprint that covers the entire tank floor and about 8" around the tank too. I only have high light demanding plants up top so I am not too worried about burning. My finnex 24/7 provides led without optics which is bright and diffuse but it isn't the best for plants.


What I think you may be overlooking is how the optics distribute the light unevenly in the upper portions of your vivarium, while casting harsh shadows in the lower portions. 

Light 'penetration' through air is effortless by comparison to light penetration through water. The optics provided with these [and other similar] LED fixtures are designed to help penetrate through water to reach the bottom of an aquarium as evenly as possible. However, by using optics, the fixtures are also creating too many shaded areas, and leaving the upper portions of the aquarium shaded between the beams created by the optics. Some people may enjoy look of this type of lighting, but it is not very useful for growing photosynthetic plants or corals.

The best way to get natural growth and coloration from plants and corals is to provide an _even_, _diffused_, and _intense_ light. This will ensure that plants/corals are receiving the same amount of light across the entire plant/coral. When uneven light is given, it can cause burning on the areas where light is overly intense, uneven growth patterns, and blotchy coloration in plants like bromeliads, or corals like acropora.

The light pattern provided when optics are used is completely unnatural, and the only reason companies with low-cost LED fixtures are using them is to make up for the lack of intensity the fixture has. This may work so-so in an aquarium setting where you have water in the way to diffuse some of the light, but it is much too harsh when used in a vivarium application.

With 90 degree optics (which is the least tight beam angle for an LED optic that we see in these types of fixtures) you'd need the fixture to be at least (or more than) 12" above the TOP of the vivarium in order for the spread to even out enough to light the upper portions of your vivarium effectively. You will still end up with quite a bit of harsh shadows within the vivarium. Removing the optics means you can sit the fixture much closer to the top of the vivarium (less than 5" in many cases) and get a dramatically more even light distribution.

Here is an aquarium using a BEAMSWORK LED fixture (I am using an aquarium because the water really helps you see the beam angles created by the optics). I have highlighted the rough beam angles in orange, and several areas where you can see the ailments caused by the optics that I described above. 

Note the pump on the right end of the aquarium. It is near the top of the tank, yet heavily shaded because of the beam angle created by the optics. The rock and driftwood I have highlighted show how start the shadows are with optics on. 

Hopefully that helps to clarify things for you.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TJ_Burton said:


> What I think you may be overlooking is how the optics distribute the light unevenly in the upper portions of your vivarium, while casting harsh shadows in the lower portions.
> 
> Light 'penetration' through air is effortless by comparison to light penetration through water. The optics provided with these [and other similar] LED fixtures are designed to help penetrate through water to reach the bottom of an aquarium as evenly as possible. However, by using optics, the fixtures are also creating too many shaded areas, and leaving the upper portions of the aquarium shaded between the beams created by the optics. Some people may enjoy look of this type of lighting, but it is not very useful for growing photosynthetic plants or corals.
> 
> ...



I really appreciate this info. "hot spots" are my main concern right now and I'm watching closerly.

In my horticultural experience, LEDs with optics always outperform naked LEDs of the same type when it comes to plant growth and light penetration. But, you have to physically place the LEDs over your plants. LEDs are great, but the footprint for intense light is very small since: 
A)a non-focused no optics LED light greatly loses intensity with distance 
or 
B)a focused LED with optics has greater range, but it's coverage area is much smaller

I treat the beamswork like a panel holding a bunch of 'spotlights'. The fixture's footprint is 12x18 making it physically cover most of the vivarium. It lights everything but the front ~4" of canopy. The finnex 24/7 sits over this front portion so that area is always lit. My whole lid is pretty much LEDs.

The fixtures actually sit snug next to each other. The beamswork feet make them look farther apart.


I will take a picture around noon when the beamswork is on and the finnex is at high strength. I do understand the coverage issue with the fixture being close to the top of my tank. The beamswork provides ample coverage for all but the front ~15% of the canopy. The finnex lights this portion so it isn't a problem. I do have shadows under my 'trees' I made but that was the point to create a shaded forest floor. The finnex creates a bright diffused lights so I don't have dark spots when the beamswork is on. My cell phone pictures make the bright spots brighter and dark spots darker than they actually are.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

FrogTim said:


> I really appreciate this info. "hot spots" are my main concern right now and I'm watching closerly.
> 
> In my horticultural experience, LEDs with optics always outperform naked LEDs of the same type when it comes to plant growth and light penetration. But, you have to physically place the LEDs over your plants. LEDs are great, but the footprint for intense light is very small since:
> A)a non-focused no optics LED light greatly loses intensity with distance
> ...



My recommendation is to grab a luxmeter/parmeter, and take some measurements across the top of the viv near your plants - it will show you how dramatic hot spots are (and where they are) which will help you plan accordingly. The best LED optics I have seen are from buildmyled.com and they specialize in horticulture. They use strips with a single optic that runs the length of the fixture. Gives the most even LED lighting I have yet seen in a fixture with optics.

I have personally found plants do better without the optics (in vivariums) because they get evenly lit - I personally can not stand it when plants have wonky, uneven growth, or blotchy coloration from improper lighting.

Keep me posted on your findings.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

I just noticed you also have the screen top on; you really should look into changing it out to glass with ventilation - your light is being cut down quite dramatically by the screen.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TJ_Burton said:


> I just noticed you also have the screen top on; you really should look into changing it out to glass with ventilation - your light is being cut down quite dramatically by the screen.


I am working on the glass top. Tried to get one done at Lowe's and the guy couldn't cut the correct dimensions and Home Depot doesn't cut glass. I really wish there was a vendor for custom tops. I would gladly pay $50-100 for a custom top pre-drilled and cut for misters and ventilation.

Here's a few pictures with both lights on at max strength. I took a couple side view photos so you could see how far my 'canopy' extends over the floor.



That moss fern selaginella? is actually completely under one of the tree fern fiber 'branches'. The Beamswork put's it in a defined 'shadow' but still lit with ambient light. Exactly what I was going for.


This is a top to bottom shot. The selaginella and broms are in the canopy while the heart fearn and creeping charlie at the bottom are actually under the branches. The color looks a little off but it's my phone not the leds.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

A lux meter would really help, but I can still see stark hot spots, how drastic they are in terms of intensity I can't say, but a glass top and removal of optics would solve that. The broms are so close to the light, having the optics off should still produce enough PAR for them.

I'd suggest just giving it a try, having a look at how the spread changes, consider resting the fixture on the top of the viv once the optics are off, and seeing what your levels are like. If you aren't thrilled, you can always pop them back on. But it is worth a consideration.

This is the handheld lux meter I use.
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-MW700-Portable-Light-Intensity/dp/B001DTQTCA


----------



## CrotalusCo (Dec 5, 2007)

Looks real good, I appreciate you sharing. Incentive to get building a few more


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TJ_Burton said:


> A lux meter would really help, but I can still see stark hot spots, how drastic they are in terms of intensity I can't say, but a glass top and removal of optics would solve that. The broms are so close to the light, having the optics off should still produce enough PAR for them.
> 
> I'd suggest just giving it a try, having a look at how the spread changes, consider resting the fixture on the top of the viv once the optics are off, and seeing what your levels are like. If you aren't thrilled, you can always pop them back on. But it is worth a consideration.
> 
> ...


How do I take the optics off? I am afraid to start poking around and saw no visible hardware.

That lux meter is nice but a little expensive at the moment.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

CrotalusCo said:


> Looks real good, I appreciate you sharing. Incentive to get building a few more


No problem I like sharing because you get helpful info from people who have done this before.

Must resist vivarium fever! I have 2 vivs and have to stop myself from answering every cheap exo terra ad.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

FrogTim said:


> How do I take the optics off? I am afraid to start poking around and saw no visible hardware.
> 
> That lux meter is nice but a little expensive at the moment.


They are typically held in place with a touch of silicon, or click overtop of the diode. With some fixtures, the only thing holding them in place is the splash guard.


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I think it is a masterpiece!


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

I like the layered look you got on the background. The pics scared me at first when there was no substrate in the bottom, lol! Looks like a paradise for the vents--do you see them much?


----------



## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

What dimensions do you need cut bud? It's 4 square individual pieces correct? Ahh hell PM me the dimensions ill go get the glass and cut/de-burr it and ship it to you, cost? Cost of glass and shipping . Tank looks great btw!


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TJ_Burton said:


> They are typically held in place with a touch of silicon, or click overtop of the diode. With some fixtures, the only thing holding them in place is the splash guard.


I think mine are siliconed on. I am nervous to break this thing lol. I thought the splash guard was just for packing purposes and threw it away! Oops...


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

rigel10 said:


> I think it is a masterpiece!


Thank you for the compliment. It is still a work in progress (what vivarium isn't?).


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

oldlady25715 said:


> I like the layered look you got on the background. The pics scared me at first when there was no substrate in the bottom, lol! Looks like a paradise for the vents--do you see them much?



Thanks! I was going for a 'tree' look with 2 trees on the left and a cliff/overhand on the right. I wanted to maximize the floor space and 'open' air space since I didn't use great stuff for the background (except the body of the overhang on right).

I see the vents on and off. They have only been in there since Tuesday so I'm letting them settle. When they are out they don't mind me at all unless I open the vivarium. They really enjoy the goldfish plants, orchid roots and selaginella so far. I'm hopeful they will only get more bold as they age. This size tank could easily house 5+ but I didn't want to over do it.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

FrogTim said:


> I think mine are siliconed on. I am nervous to break this thing lol. I thought the splash guard was just for packing purposes and threw it away! Oops...


Hahaha nope, it is a part of the fixture - not vital unless you use it over water though, so don't fret.

If they are held on with silicone, you can twist the optic or rock it back and forth to get it off. Usually its a very small amount holding it in place.

If you aren't comfy doing it, than leave it as is - I don't want you to blame me for anything if you don't end up liking the improvement.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TheCoop said:


> What dimensions do you need cut bud? It's 4 square individual pieces correct? Ahh hell PM me the dimensions ill go get the glass and cut/de-burr it and ship it to you, cost? Cost of glass and shipping . Tank looks great btw!


I appreciate it! I swear someone could make a killing do custom tops/inserts for those of us without tools or skills.


----------



## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Well the offer stands.. Its spuper easy for me, this is the top i did on our gecko tank. The front is only half covered to allow a basking light.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

here's a couple of the vents since they have been out more lately.


----------



## irish (Apr 7, 2008)

Nice work FrogTim. Could you tell me a few posts down in your second pic of the post what the green shiny plant is on the left please?


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

irish said:


> Nice work FrogTim. Could you tell me a few posts down in your second pic of the post what the green shiny plant is on the left please?


Thanks. Could you quote the post so I know which plant? Is it the goldfish plant or heart fern?


----------



## irish (Apr 7, 2008)

FrogTim said:


> I am working on the glass top. Tried to get one done at Lowe's and the guy couldn't cut the correct dimensions and Home Depot doesn't cut glass. I really wish there was a vendor for custom tops. I would gladly pay $50-100 for a custom top pre-drilled and cut for misters and ventilation.
> 
> Here's a few pictures with both lights on at max strength. I took a couple side view photos so you could see how far my 'canopy' extends over the floor.
> 
> ...


Sure thing. Second picture, the shiny green on the left in about the center of the shot. Thanks.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

That is a goldfish plant. They have a vining/trailing growth pattern and unique bulbous orange flowers.


----------



## irish (Apr 7, 2008)

FrogTim said:


> That is a goldfish plant. They have a vining/trailing growth pattern and unique bulbous orange flowers.


Spectacular. Thanks very much!


----------



## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Glass shipped, you should have it saturday .


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

TheCoop said:


> Glass shipped, you should have it saturday .


Yea I'm excited! Thank you!

I will make sure to post when I install it. Now to just find a temporary cover while I assemble my current top...


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

FrogTim said:


> Yea I'm excited! Thank you!
> 
> I will make sure to post when I install it. Now to just find a temporary cover while I assemble my current top...


I'd just grab a thin piece of plexiglass or even a cheap 4' light diffuser from the hardware store and toss that on while you work on the new lid.

If it won't be for long, you could just use cling (plastic) wrap.


----------



## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Why not cling wrap. It's temporary. 


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Mohlerbear said:


> Why not cling wrap. It's temporary.
> 
> 
> Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I used that for my 12x12x18 and it worked. Although I taped it around the entire top I was stil very paranoid while the temporary top was on.

I am terrified at the though of an escapee


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

*UPDATE*

This is long overdue. I since replaced the ugly top I had going and special thanks to @Thecoop for helping me with custom cut glass inserts.

I also moved this tank on a rack and have a new lighting system.
Above this tank sits a EVO 3w 6500k, Finnex planted+ 24/7, and a 24'' EVO 3w 'daylight' (thought I purchased a 6500K but it turns out its a little more blue). EVO lights are controlled by a Current Dual timer. Front EVO is on 8am to 7pm at 60% and back EVO is on 10am-5pm at 20%. Finnex planted+ is programmed so it hits it's 6pm 'sunset' when the last EVO turns off.

I was originally running the lights at 100% but after removing the screen from the exo terra lid my plants started exhibiting light burn. I had to turn the lights WAY down and am still trying to find the perfect level.

Taking the screen out of the original exo terra top wasn't too hard and I simply siliconed in the glass pieces. I left a small portion of screen along the front and an opening in the back for my 120mm low speed fan.

Temporary clingwrap top while I worked on the lid. As soon as the tank fogged up like this, ALL my frogs came out and started pushing at the corners trying to escape. It made me very nervous but luckily no escapes.


The original top which had clingwrap over it to keep the humidity up. 


Cut out the screen where the glass is going.


This is the top installed. Much cleaner looking and the lights shine into the tank much brighter. Mismatched silicone colors but I used what was on hand.


And here's the shot of the rack it's on.


----------

