# Growing Moss in Tank?



## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

I need help, again, with my first vivarium. I recently read the post "Growing Moss?" but that was a little different question.

My question is what is the best way to apply moss to a brand new tank, and best way to get it established.

The type of moss I want to grow is native to this area. It is either rock cap moss, or fern moss. I think is is rock cap moss. I plan to grow this all over my tank.

If people do not recommend I use this moss, please let me know otherwise, and advise what type I should use. I want a low growing moss. Thanks.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

This discussion in an ongoing one, but let me give you my thoughts. 

1st - if you bring moss in from the outside, you are also bringing in everything that is living in there, along with potential insect eggs. 

2nd - you are living in the northern hemisphere - and putting it into a tank which will not experience a "cold & freezing" period.

3rd - if you look any pictures of native habitat of the frogs you are planning on caring for, you will not find moss - but leaf litter.

So, why are you considering using moss? A good alternative is using an aquatic plant called riccia. Many have used it and it will not die in the conditions of the aquarium. I would use riccia & a combination of leaf litter in my tank.

Melissa


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## uespe1018 (Apr 10, 2007)

If you like moss, black jungle has a great tropical moss that is low growing, spreads fairly quickly, and seems to grow on just about anything. It's a little pricey, though. Hope that helps.


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## USCraig (Jul 25, 2007)

melissa68 said:


> 3rd - if you look any pictures of native habitat of the frogs you are planning on caring for, you will not find moss - but leaf litter.
> Melissa












a PDF in is NATIVE habitat of PERU - Note the Moss on the rock as well as the leaf litter. Moss naturally grows all over the world. Even where PDF's live in the wild.

Moss, in my opinion, is pleasing to look at and if planted right, will showcase your other plants. But the argument of #3. ill researched and not a good one.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Yes, moss does grow all over the world, but if you take some time to look at pictures and images taken of pdfs in their native habitats - you will see something lacking, and that is moss. 

Moss is something we add for our visual enjoyment...

Melissa


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## USCraig (Jul 25, 2007)

melissa68 said:


> Yes, moss does grow all over the world, but if you take some time to look at pictures and images taken of pdfs in their native habitats - you will see something lacking, and that is moss.
> 
> Moss is something we add for our visual enjoyment...
> 
> Melissa


If you look at the photo I posted, That IS a PDF in it's native habitat - not a viv.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

USCraig said:


> a PDF in is NATIVE habitat of PERU - Note the Moss on the rock as well as the leaf litter. Moss naturally grows all over the world. Even where PDF's live in the wild.
> 
> Moss, in my opinion, is pleasing to look at and if planted right, will showcase your other plants. But the argument of #3. ill researched and not a good one.


Are you trying to say this is a picture taken in peru of a native frog on moss?

I can attest that I have not personally been to South America - but my friends who have - make the comment there isn't moss growing all over the ground like we like to put in our tanks. 

Photographers who visit South America often stage photos by having a spotter to chase after the frog if it takes off and a nice location with good lighting and backgrounds for the images. 

Do a search on the importance of leaf litter in tanks and you might choose to set up your tank differently. 

Melissa


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Did you personally take the photo? 



USCraig said:


> melissa68 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, moss does grow all over the world, but if you take some time to look at pictures and images taken of pdfs in their native habitats - you will see something lacking, and that is moss.
> ...


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## USCraig (Jul 25, 2007)

I'm sorry, this is a you are right situation as you are quite firm on your opinion of the natural landscapes of a jungle environment.

The photo is from a collection of photos taken in Peru 2006 by a group of people wanting to revisit a friends place of birth.

http://people.uleth.ca/~holzmann/peru/ the collection of photos (by people on vacation and not looking to "stage" a shot) Pure vacation armatures.

The photos "YOU" see most are in the "jungle" section. look down at the animal section 










Note the moss on the tree











The photos you mainly see are photos like these:










And 










And you DON'T see moss on those. But to denounce moss in the area based on "some" photos you have seen is not matter-of-fact.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

There is a difference is North American and Floridian cushion moss and the moss you are pointing out in the images. 

You should really read up more on the effects of harvesting cushion moss on the environment. That is the moss that was being discussed in this thread. 

Melissa



USCraig said:


> I'm sorry, this is a you are right situation as you are quite firm on your opinion of the natural landscapes of a jungle environment.
> 
> The photo is from a collection of photos taken in Peru 2006 by a group of people wanting to revisit a friends place of birth.
> 
> ...


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## USCraig (Jul 25, 2007)

to add, 

http://www.jstor.org/jstor/gifcvtdir/sp ... mlGeIa7Xqj

There are 820 Moss species in Peru noted in 1988.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Not to add to the heated discussion, but this thread is WAY off topic.

MonopolyBag, it is true that what grows in your area may not be the best for a vivarium, and you can bring in bugs with it. But, there are many who harvest local moss and it works well. I would consider the moss that was mentioned by uespe1018, or the riccia Melissa was talking about. Or, try the local stuff if you don't mind the risk of bugs. I personally have a combination of a low growing moss that was not wild collected in addition to moderate leaf litter. Did you get a new pitcher plant yet? The one you had was really nice.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

On second thought, by comment was off topic too, ha. You asked about getting is established. Some moss takes awhile to get established, some doesn't. There are so many mosses, that there really is no one answer, I don't think. But, most like bright light, to be kept damp, but not drenched. As far as getting it to grow on the back or logs, I'm not sure. I would look for members vivariums with nice moss in the tank and PM them and ask what they did. Everyone is so helpful on the board, it's nice.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks for bringing it back on topic. Moss from different areas behave differently. I stopped using live moss in my tanks a number of years ago after reading some articles about how the industry and removal of moss was hurting ecosystems. 

Now, if I want green in my tank, I use plants, riccia or New Zealand Sphagnum which will begin growing again in your tank and give you a nice ground cover. One of the reasons I use riccia & New Zealand moss is they are renewable resources - which can not be said for wild collected mosses. Many of the mosses are very slow growing and have taken decades to create patches the size they are. 

Good luck.

Melissa



Mywebbedtoes said:


> Not to add to the heated discussion, but this thread is WAY off topic.
> 
> MonopolyBag, it is true that what grows in your area may not be the best for a vivarium, and you can bring in bugs with it. But, there are many who harvest local moss and it works well. I would consider the moss that was mentioned by uespe1018, or the riccia Melissa was talking about. Or, try the local stuff if you don't mind the risk of bugs. I personally have a combination of a low growing moss that was not wild collected in addition to moderate leaf litter. Did you get a new pitcher plant yet? The one you had was really nice.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Wayne,

It has been my experience that moss will begin growing on them without any help from the keeper. If you have it in the cage, it will grow on wood.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

melissa68 said:


> I stopped using live moss in my tanks a number of years ago after reading some articles about how the industry and removal of moss was hurting ecosystems...
> Many of the mosses are very slow growing and have taken decades to create patches the size they are.


Thanks for bringing up this point. We all want pretty tanks, but not at the expence of the real thing, nature. I will have to look into this more before I buy moss again.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I don't remember the original thread this was broken from, but here is a little discussion about the topic.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13016&highlight=moss


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

*WOW!!!!!!!!!*

OK thanks for bringing us back on topic. AND YES! I ordered some new Nepenthes Ventricosa and I got them today. I ordered them from http://www.HoustonHerp.com but actually found him on eBay. VERY healthy plants and VERY well packed. nice potting mix and very helpful! I plan to order more plants from him tomorrow. But my pitcher plant that got sun burned in my viv is starting to come back!

Also, i am getting some vents for it VERY VERY soon! Like maybe mid next week. And hope to get the tank finished then too.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I am sure you have heard of this site before, but one of my favorites is California Carnivores. http://www.californiacarnivores.com/

If you don't have Peter D'Amato's book, "The Savage Garden" you need to. It is an awesome book.

Melissa


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

You could try kyoto moss spores. That would eliminate most pest issues and it seemed to have worked in my tank. It likes bright light though. They sell it for bonsai growers. Be careful though because I think that some companies put in other things aside from just the spores.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

OK Thanks. I read that the moss Doesn't like bright sun, partial sun is best, and likes it cooler. Does anyone else recommend Kyoto moss, it is a good idea.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

I have Kyoto moss growing in mine. Makes a nice patch. Only problem was that I hand mist so it took a LONG time to start showing up.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Got any pictures?


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

yep... I have to find them first.


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## 013 (Aug 9, 2006)

Hi all. I'll chime in here. European keepers like me often have mosses in their tanks with great success. Techniques may vary, but this is how i have grown mine on substrate, background and wood:

Most hobbyists here use java moss (vesicularia sp.). Take the moss and cut it up as small as you possibly can. You can also use a kitchenaid for this. Cutting it up like this will entice it to grow faster.

Next, smear it on the surface you want it to grow. Once you've done that make sure you keep it very moist during the next weeks. That's the period it'll start to attach to the surface and adapt to growing on land.

The first week i misted it 5 times a day. The more, the better. I reduced the frequency every two weeks untill i reached the normal amount of two times (30 seconds) a day once it was established. Make sure you use good quality water. Mosses like do better with as less minerals and salts as possible, a bit acidity is good. I personally use osmosiswater. Some keepers use clean rainwater. 

Well, once it's established it's easy to maintain. It'll spread itself on moist places through spores. 

Moss not growing in your tank can have 2 causes imho:
-insufficient lichting
-poor quality water; moss may die because of tapwater.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Don't forget about the calcium dust vs moss thing. I don't know about all mosses but I think a great number of them will pretty much die on contact with calcium dust. And if you have a water feature you'll have to keep water changes in mind so the calcium doesn't build up in the water.

The kyoto moss spores have worked out really well for me. It does like moisture and high light it seems.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The moss in frog habitat debate is always interesting...

For the interest in simplifying it, moss grows all over the place, and usually can be found in areas of disturbed canopy... fallen tree, treetops, streams large enough to make a break in the canopy (where the rocks would be covered in moss). Moss grows on something, and not actually on the forest floor where all the leaf litter is, and in areas with undistrubed canopy moss is hard to find (as it needs more light).

In the context of our tanks... it tends to be turned into a one or the other debate. People like to created "lawns" of moss. Both the moss and the frogs do not do as well with this. If you want moss in your tanks (note - they can be some of the hardest plants to grow in your tank! odd as it seems) I highly recomend growing it like it grows in the wild... ON something! I have it on logs, rocks, sythetic backgrounds, treefern panel, coco huts, coco panels... not on the floor. That's where I have my leaf litter. I have happy moss, happy frogs, and a more natural tank.

And yes, I'm applying my knowledge and experience from exploring multiple rainforest types, inhabited by PDFs, to form these ideas.

As for native mosses... some temperate mosses will survive... meaning they will live, but not spread particularly well, and will not spore. This is usually due to a lack of a dormant phase dependent on temperatures. Some temperate mosses just flat out will not survive at all. I also don't use temperate mosses for the destructive collecting practices... they just aren't worth it!

The mosses used in my tanks are from starts from tropical moss sources and sphagnum moss. The tropical mosses (some of which came from BJ's tropical moss stock) have doen well in terrarium environments, have spread fast, and have set spores in the tanks so I've got patches of various mosses in various parts of the tank. Truely happy moss, and worth paying a little $ and giving it time to establish.

Keys to good moss... well draining substrate... like a log or background  mosses on the floor of the tank can very easily get waterlogged. Air movement makes all plants happy... they like humid air, but don't do as well when it's stagnant (which can lead to the moss on the substrates being water logged where mounted mosses wouldn't have as much of an issue). They are light hungry... you'll need good lighting (and stuff on the floor of the tank may not get enough light ESPECIALLY when the other plants grow in... leaf litter doesn't need any light). Do NOT get vitamin/calcium powder on the moss (if it's not on the floor you're less likely to get powder on it... see a running trend here?).

Variaton of 013's recomendations on moss... paint it on! Toss it in a blender (it's been recomended by gardeners to add some beer or buttermilk to make it a thick liquid) puree it, and paint it on the surfaces you want. 

Note on using "aquatic mosses" - almost all the mosses used in aquariums can be grown terrestrially (i think christmas moss is the only truely aquatic?). They are typically grown in water, and need time to adapt to land... like 013 mentioned, keep them wet, and gradually transition them to the humidity of the tank.

Sorry for the small book, I was c/p stuff from my moss guide rough article I've had in the works...


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

DON'T BE SORRY! This does help, I recent;y bought some Java Moss on eBay and hope it comes soon. I plan to use this on my wood and background.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

Here are a couple of recent pics of my tank. Most of what you see came from kyoto spores applied at the beginning. There are actually more than a few species of moss in there and I hope they find their niche.










This is a piece of driftwood that the two auratus I have call home.


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## Axl (Dec 9, 2006)

Nice moss! looking good! :wink:


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Wow, nice tank Andy!


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

Yeah Andy good job. This thread inspired me to puchase a bag of spores off Ebay a few days ago. What process did you use to get your moss going so well? I have a similar tank - 55 gallon with waterfall.


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## andy83 (May 31, 2006)

I just used around three packets and put it all over the water feature, ground and background. I also have strong cf lighting.


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