# Conifer Trees in Terrariums and Indoors



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I've been working on a fun project testing various coniferous trees in terrariums. Conifers may seem like unlikely choices for growing in this way, but there are a few compelling reasons for trying to incorporate them into terrariums. Few other plants have such elegant foliage as conifers and a planting of these trees invokes the environments of the most beautiful of wild forests. Conifers also combine very well with some other kinds of plants used in terrariums, especially ferns and mosses.

There are a few of important constraints for growing conifers in enclosures indoors. Many of the most familiar conifers are temperate plants that generally require cool seasonal dormancy periods. This is obviously difficult to accommodate indoors and this is one reason that bonsai conifers are almost always grown as outdoor plants. Most conifers also require very bright light, generally full sun, and for this reason too most of them must be grown out of doors. Many conifers also grow to large size rather fast.

So, the challenge is to use conifer species that do not require marked seasonal dormancy or very bright light and to grow them in such a way that their dimensions can be controlled. I have already had pretty good luck with a few tropical or subtropical conifers--these species are less likely to demand dormancy periods. Most of my plants are still pretty small in size, but I have also been trying some bonsai training methods to control size and shape. 

I would like to share a shot of a few new plants that I received a couple of weeks ago with an order from Johnsteen Company. It is a lot of fun to order little seedling trees from this place. Here are the plants that I got...










Monterey pine (_Pinus radiata_) and Monterey cypress (_Cupressus macrocarpa_) can adapt to various different environments and they are two of the most common cultivated conifers in the world. The natural ranges of these plants are along the northern or central California coast. This maritime climate has a mild winter and both of these species can be grown in subtropical climates without much of a cool winter dormancy. Monterey pine is one of few pines that can grow very well with some shade. Monterey cypress is sometimes grown as a houseplant including as inexpensive live potted Christmas trees. I have these new plants potted in net pots with ABG mix and they look like they are adapting well so far in humid viv conditions with medium light and good air circulation. 

The center plant is Montezuma cypress (_Taxodium mucronatum_). This Mexican tree is a close relative of our native bald cypress (_T. distichum_) but as a subtropical species it usually does not deciduously drop its foliage as bald cypress does. I have a few more observations to share about Montezuma cypress and a few more conifer species and I will write more later.


----------



## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

You could also pick up a Wollemia nobilis just for fun. Thanks, JVK


----------



## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

Really, really interesting post and idea!

Please keep this updated, especially as it pertains to controlling the height using Bonsai techniques. This is something that could be perfect for a 75G project I have in the pipeline...


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

SDK said:


> Really, really interesting post and idea!
> 
> Please keep this updated, especially as it pertains to controlling the height using Bonsai techniques. This is something that could be perfect for a 75G project I have in the pipeline...


What are you making with the 75?

You should try getting some trees from Johnsteen. The little seedlings that I have ordered have arrived to me in perfect shape. I think those three species I mention above are good bets. Last spring I also got several coast redwood (_Sequoia sempervirens_) and they are still doing well in humid terrarium conditions. It might also be worth trying giant sequoia (_Sequoiadendron giganteum_). I read about one perrson growing giant sequoia as indoor bonsai.


----------



## DJReptile (Mar 9, 2009)

Very, very cool! One thing I can tell you living amongst coastal redwoods and trying to garden around them they do drop foliage and it acidifies the soil. Probably not an issue in the first year or two but over time I could see it becoming problematic in a viv. My instinct would be to remove any dropped foliage as I saw it.


----------



## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

hydrophyte said:


> What are you making with the 75?


I have a group of Orange Terribilis that I want to display in my living room. I have a spare 75 and cabinet stand that I will be working on after the holidays for them. 

If possible I am trying to come up with something a bit different that will still be a healthy environment for the frogs. A Conifer centerpiece along with a few cork tubes set up to look like the bases of larger trees could be very interesting. 

My biggest concern with this would be keeping the vertical growth managed. I have dabbled in Bonsai and have several good books on the subject. Thinking it is worth a try. Worst case is I eventually have to pull it from the viv and pot it for my balcony garden.

I am going to order a few and get them rooted/started in some ABG mix. Should make for another interesting project to help keep my sanity through the New England winter...


----------



## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm always excited to see new hydrophyte posts... Once again, I'm not disappointed.

Palms, conifers, mosses... Next I want to see you grow fruit-bearing trees in a terrarium. Or maybe a miniaturized prairie grassland? Wait... A TUNDRA TANK!


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

DJReptile said:


> Very, very cool! One thing I can tell you living amongst coastal redwoods and trying to garden around them they do drop foliage and it acidifies the soil. Probably not an issue in the first year or two but over time I could see it becoming problematic in a viv. My instinct would be to remove any dropped foliage as I saw it.


Yeah that would be something to watch out for, although I imagine it wouldn't be much of an issue unless the plant were to get pretty large. Some of these conifers, especially pines and cedars, might also be too strongly aromatic to keep in an enclosed setup with sensitive animals like frogs if there is a lot of foliage. 



SDK said:


> I have a group of Orange Terribilis that I want to display in my living room. I have a spare 75 and cabinet stand that I will be working on after the holidays for them.
> 
> If possible I am trying to come up with something a bit different that will still be a healthy environment for the frogs. A Conifer centerpiece along with a few cork tubes set up to look like the bases of larger trees could be very interesting.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a fun idea. In my experience so far I have found that it is easy to prune the tops of the Montezuma cypress and coast redwood to control size. Both of these have grown a few new vertical sprouts after pruning and I just pruned again to train one new vertical lead to maintain the conical vertical shape. I have also seen the Montezuma cypress sprout many new leaves and branches on old wood. These sprouts are useful for growing and training new branches. Some conifers won't sprout on old wood.

It would be difficult to do this kind of thing with some other species. Norfolk Island pine (_Araucaria heterophylla_) would probably grow very well in a terrarium and it is very easy to find for sale cheap, especially this time of year, but its conical pagoda-shape growth habit would get messed up with pruning. 



Broseph said:


> I'm always excited to see new hydrophyte posts... Once again, I'm not disappointed.
> 
> Palms, conifers, mosses... Next I want to see you grow fruit-bearing trees in a terrarium. Or maybe a miniaturized prairie grassland? Wait... A TUNDRA TANK!


Thanks for reading!


----------



## jimmy rustles (Mar 10, 2013)

Broseph said:


> Next I want to see you grow fruit-bearing trees in a terrarium.


If you`re interested in that, I got a tank with Mangos, and Avocados, strawberries and a Paprika going. Not a frog viv tho.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here is one of my projects where I am using conifer trees. This is a 165G enclosure planted to represent a Cretaceous Period conifer forest. It currently has a number of Montezuma cypress and a couple of coast redwood along with other plants. 



















To make a convincing conifer forest in an enclosure like this it is important to use multiple small trees of the same kind. This is how conifers generally grow in the wild. The fine, lacy foliage of the Montezuma cypress blends well with other plants and features. 

I need to remove the eastern white cedar (_Thuja occidentalis_) stumps and replace them with some other kind of wood feature. This tree contains thujone, a secondary plant compound with strong insecticidal properties. I thought these stumps would be OK with the bark on, but I can detect a faint cedar odor when I open the enclosure. 

If I can find one I would like to add a single _Agathis_ or other broad-leaved conifer. There are old fossil examples of trees like this and so it would support the ancient forest theme well. 









(Wikimedia Commons image: File:Agathis dammara - KÃ¶hlerâ€“s Medizinal-Pflanzen-155.jpg - Wikimedia Commons)


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here is another setup where I am using Montezuma cypress. Everything in this little terrarium is native to the Northern United States, except for the cypress. I included the cypress to represent little firs or hemlocks, temperate trees that would not do well in a terrarium. Most cool-temperate plants do not grow well long-term in indoor enclosures, but the ones I am using here (mosses, _Huperzia_ clubmoss, _Goodyera_ orchid, partridgberry, _Asplenium_ fern) are evergreen species that have grown well for me so far in this enclosure and others. 










I should get some new pictures of this terrarium. It looks different now. The plants have grown some.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Johnsteen Company has all of those seedling trees on sale right now. Here is that link again...

https://store.sequoiatrees.com/prostores/servlet/Search?category=Trees

I'm curious about that canyon live oak (_Quercus chrysolepis_). I might have to get that one along with just a few more trees.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

if you kept the trees containerized--as in a clay pot or a netted "pot" it would perhaps make it easier to remove if root pruning were necessary...interesting vivs...espaliered subjects next??


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Judy S said:


> if you kept the trees containerized--as in a clay pot or a netted "pot" it would perhaps make it easier to remove if root pruning were necessary...interesting vivs...espaliered subjects next??


Those plants in the 165 are all in plastic net pots and the setup has a Forest Floor false bottom. It's way easier to deal with the plants like this.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

THAT is an interesting setup...where did you find that? It can accommodate different size pots!!


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Of those plants that I got recently the Monterey cypress is doing especially well already with new white roots and some new growth on top. I don't see any new growth yet on the radiata pine. The Montezuma cypress is growing well too of course.

I gotta try a giant sequoia sometime too.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Judy S said:


> THAT is an interesting setup...where did you find that? It can accommodate different size pots!!


I cut the plate from 1/4" polyethylene sheet on a CNC router. There are holes for 3", 3.625" and 5" net pots.

I'm still experimenting with different features in that setup. I think it will look cooler when I figure out the right kind of tree stump to use. I'm going to add some more pretty cool plants too.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got some really cool plants with the mail today. This is _Lagarostrobos franklinii _(left) and _Fitzroya cupressoides_ (right). I'm not growing these in terrariums, but instead just as potted plants this winter with some extra light and humidity. I hope they will do OK. After getting this picture I repotted them with pro mix in 4" pots. I received one other conifer with the same order and I'll post more details later.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

where ARE you finding these specimens? Had to Google them -- it'll be a while to be able to put a swing on either of them...Wonder whether the Lagarostrobos franklinii would be good in a paladarium for you....one of the pictures when you check Google has a great picture with the exposed roots covered with moss.....Amazed at how old these two trees can be....


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm just going to grow these like potted patio plants/houseplants. Maybe later on I will try to bonsai train them and some of my other collector conifers. I can't put these two in the ground here because we are in Zone 5 and they are like Zone 7 plants. I hope they will do OK indoors for me. 

Sometimes it's hard to find obscure and unusual plants like this. I ran into this nursery by accident while looking for another plant and I was surprised at their selection of rare conifers. Here is the link... Welcome to THE DESERT NORTHWEST!


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Really good link...am fascinated by all sorts of trees, and they have a good number of oaks that would do well here...oops, this is a frog forum...not plants...thanks


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

The third plant in that order is a _Prumnopitys andina. _It is a real attractive, bushy plant that looks a lot like a yew. The specimen they sent was larger, more like a half-gallon plant. 

I hope it will grow for me. This species is from Chile and Argentina (where it is being cut down fast) and grows well in maritime areas on the US West Coast. 

Here is a Creative Commons picture (FilerumnopitysAndinaMod.jpg - Wikimedia Commons) of a young plant. It can grow up to be a pretty big tree.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Broseph said:


> I'm always excited to see new hydrophyte posts... Once again, I'm not disappointed.
> 
> Palms, conifers, mosses... Next I want to see you grow fruit-bearing trees in a terrarium. Or maybe a miniaturized prairie grassland? Wait... A TUNDRA TANK!


Ya Hydro does some cool threads. 
You might be interested in this old thread of mine...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/55452-small-edible-plants-viv.html

Hydro or anyone else is welcome to take up the challenge. I got distracted by the blue flower quest and never got into the actual edible plant experiments.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/56368-possible-choices-blue-flowers-vivs.html

P.S. I have some ideas on Ice themed vivs with crystals, fake snow and silver foil age plants. Not gotten around to that yet either 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program...


----------



## jimmy rustles (Mar 10, 2013)

I don't know if that counts for you since its not as wet as a frog viv , but my anole viv is almost kitchen leftovers only with Mango, Avocado, Forest strawberries, parsley, peppers which get fruit on The regular and it did have mini tomatoes, but they were growing too fast and got on my nerves: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/2140865-post24.html
(Should make some newer pics as everythiing has grown in better)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

There is another really cool plant source I should mention. Xenoflora has an amazing selection of many kinds of plants that seem to be otherwise unavailable in the US. They have listed an especially fascinating variety of tropical, subtropical and warm temperate conifers. This page shows a sample...

Conifers | Product Categories | Xenoflora

I already bought a _Retrophyllum_ from them and a couple of _Podocaprus_. I want to get a few more of their rare tropical conifers, such as _Taiwania_, _Agathis_ and _Dacrydium_. 

They are very busy and ran out of time to update the site with all available plants, but if you send them an email they can eventually respond with a current availability list.


----------



## Tongue Flicker (Oct 30, 2014)

How bout try your hand on some Araucaria heterophylla. I have some growing on my resort house in the tropics and I must say they really thrive wel under moist, humid sometimes shady conditions.

Btw, that sounds like a fabulous plan


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Tongue Flicker said:


> How bout try your hand on some Araucaria heterophylla. I have some growing on my resort house in the tropics and I must say they really thrive wel under moist, humid sometimes shady conditions.
> 
> Btw, that sounds like a fabulous plan


Yes I'm sure this plant could do well in a terrarium setup. It is easy to grow as an indoor plant if you give it some light. But it has a couple of issues. Over here it is ubiquitous as a houseplant and you see it everywhere. It also has a shape and growth habit that make it more difficult to maintain with pruning as a small plant. For a terrarium it could probably work out well in a large enclosure if you use several of them for a mass planting effect.


----------



## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

Sorry for the slow reply on this. Two kids + Christmas = zero extra hobby time.

I ordered a couple of plants from the site you linked to. Because I am way behind on the 75g build, I am going to pot and test drive them in my Terribilis viv. Hopefully they can grow and establish a bit by the time I am ready to permanently plant them.

I will follow up with more info and pics when I finally get some free time. Thanks again for the links and great idea!

Scott


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

SDK said:


> Sorry for the slow reply on this. Two kids + Christmas = zero extra hobby time.
> 
> I ordered a couple of plants from the site you linked to. Because I am way behind on the 75g build, I am going to pot and test drive them in my Terribilis viv. Hopefully they can grow and establish a bit by the time I am ready to permanently plant them.
> 
> ...


I look forward to seeing this. Which species did you get?


----------



## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Wow, turns out Jonsteen is right around the corner from me.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

epiphytes etc. said:


> Wow, turns out Jonsteen is right around the corner from me.


Yeah their address is McKinleyville. They must grow a lot of plants. I think they supply for big projects like replanting after logging.

Be sure to check out those plants on the Xenoflora site. They have really amazing rare collector conifers and other stuff.


----------



## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

hydrophyte said:


> I look forward to seeing this. Which species did you get?


I went with Monterey Pine and Monterey Cypress to start...


----------



## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

That site does have some sweet stuff. Thanks!


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

SDK said:


> I went with Monterey Pine and Monterey Cypress to start...


Be sure to post what kinds of results you get. I am already seeing growth on top and roots roots with my Monterey cypress. The radiata pines are still just sitting there with no obvious new growth, but they look OK.

I want to place one more order with them while they still have the plants on sale and include a _Quercus chrysolepis_ along with a few more of the conifers that I got already. This oak might have potential as in indoor or terrarium plant. It grows mostly near the coast in California, Oregon and Baja in moist canyons often with more shade as compared with other oaks. And it's an evergreen... Quercus chrysolepis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 



epiphytes etc. said:


> That site does have some sweet stuff. Thanks!


Be sure to email them for an availability list. Like I mentioned before they are not currently updating the site and they have a lot of amazing stuff not listed there.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's an update for the smaller setup where I am using several Montezuma cypress seedlings. Almost all of the plants are developing well in there. The cypress trees will eventually grow to the top, but I think I can keep them looking pretty good as short, bushy plants by just pruning the tops. 

The next time that someone tells you that you can't grow terrestrial clubmosses in a terrarium, don't listen. The _Huperzia lucidula_ plants are really thriving. They are rooting vigorously into the soil substrate and I also see quite a bit of new growth on top.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got some cool stuff stuff with the mail today in an order from Sheffield's Seed Company. They have seeds for lots of different conifers that include a pretty good variety of subtropical or tropical species. 

I am especially happy to have seeds for _Taiwania cryptomeroides_. This is a rare and desirable tree. The other two trees here are native Mexican conifers. _Cupressus lusitanica_ is widely planted in Mexico and Central America in cool areas up in the mountains. I remember seeing cypress boughs and cut trees for sale at Christmas time in Costa Rica and they were probably this species. It might be hard to get very good results growing any pine indoors, but if the seeds sprout for me I will see how the _Pinus leiophylla_ performs. I read that it is adaptable and can take some shade.


----------



## eaglerock (May 30, 2013)

This is really amazing. Are you thinking about tropical frogs or more temperate ones?


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

eaglerock said:


> This is really amazing. Are you thinking about tropical frogs or more temperate ones?


Thanks so much. Sorry, I don't keep any frogs at all. Most of these setups are plant-only displays. I will be putting some kind of livestock in that 165G enclosures, but it will probably be some roaches combined with other compatible inverts.


----------



## dirtmonkey (Feb 10, 2007)

hydrophyte said:


>


Hey is that Goodyera pubescens or oblongifolia? Has it adapted long term? I've always meant to try our native oblongifolia but haven't done it yet.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

dirtmonkey said:


> Hey is that Goodyera pubescens or oblongifolia? Has it adapted long term? I've always meant to try our native oblongifolia but haven't done it yet.


I bought several of these as G. pubescens and I've had them since July. They are still in a few various terrarium setups and still actively growing, but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually flake out due to the lack of seasonality. It will take a while longer to know for sure.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I haven't been back here in a while.

This afternoon I got another order of seeds in the mail with some pretty cool stuff. Here is the list of species included...

_Agathis australis_
_Dacrycarpus imbricatus_
_Libocedrus plumosa_
_Phyllocladus trichomanoides_
_Podocarpus totara_
These are cool plants. I need to set up a shelf for seed starting. A couple of these species will need cold moist stratification before sowing.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I wanted to mention something quick. Xenoflora has added a number of new plants, including several tropical/subtropical conifers, to their ebay listings. Here is the link...

http://stores.ebay.com/xenoflora


----------



## vachyner (Aug 10, 2013)

FWIW, there were some awesome looking trees on Oahu when I used to live out there (Araucaria columnaris, also called the Cook Pine). I'd imagine they'd do quite well in a high humidity environment like a viv if you can keep them small enough, but would probably require a ton of light and circulation.
Araucaria columnaris - Cook Pine, New Caledonia Pine, Cook Araucaria, Columnar Araucaria - Hawaiian Plants and Tropical Flowers


----------



## Bunsincunsin (Feb 11, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> I wanted to mention something quick. Xenoflora has added a number of new plants, including several tropical/subtropical conifers, to their ebay listings. Here is the link...
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/xenoflora


The Colombian conifer that I have seen them post looks like it would be a nice species to try out in a larger tank.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I haven't been back to this thread in a long time, but I'm still working on this idea.

It's a good idea to mention this other species that I have been having good results with. Mexican white cypress (_Cupressus lusitanica_) has been growing great in this setup with a moss turf. It has wonderful soft foliage a nice conical conifer shape, even as a seedling.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Any others doing well in vivarium conditions???


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

So far I have also been having good results with Monterey cypress (_Cupressus macrocarpa_), coast redwood (_Sequoia sempervirens_) and Montezuma cypress (_Taxodium distichum_). These three are all available as inexpensive seedlings from Johnsteen Company. 

I have tried a couple of different pines, but they have not grown very well. Most pines probably need very bright light. 

I have had a _Prumnopitys andina_ growing very well as a houseplant and I suspect it will also look nice in a terrarium. It has very attractive deep green yew-like foliage. I am planning a larger project that will use this species in combination with other things.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I planted another mossery terrarium with another new kind of tree. This setup uses a single elk antler in a 18" X 36" fish tank. It will look pretty cool as the mosses spread to form a broad turf. The seedlings are a Mexican pine, _Pinus leiophylla_. I have tried a couple of pines in terrariums already with poor results--most species probably need very bright light--but this one supposedly grows in shady, moist canyons, so maybe it will adapt. The seedlings look pretty neat with the mosses. They look like giant _Polytrichum_ plants. 

I used my special layered substrate that has been working well for mosses.










Here it is right after planting. I pulled the moss mats apart to make fingertip-size divisions for planting. I hope to see pretty complete coverage in about eight weeks.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Tomorrow I should see a box in the mail with some fun new plants, including _Amentotaxus formosana_.
_
Amentotaxus_ are pretty cool. They resemble yews, but with much larger leaves. They are rare in cultivation. I can't wait to see it!









(Wikimedia Creative Commons imag: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Amentotaxus_argotaenia_%283%29.jpg)


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's _Sequoia sempervirens_ along with a few other plants still doing great in this simple terrarium setup. I have pruned these little trees a couple of times to keep them inside the tank and they respond well with healthy new budding. I love this soft conifer foliage.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

This is a very interesting thread that I didn't see until now. Great job on the terraria, hydrophyte. I think conifers can be beautiful in that setting. Here are a few thoughts I had:

1) For those that are thinking about them/have already put them in frog tanks, are you concerned about the lowered pH in the substrate from their litter?

2) When choosing species, many conifers will have a light level tendency (that may change over the lifetime of the individual) that might help make a good choice. Many conifer seedlings do fine in open-grown (unshaded) conditions. This is sometimes true of species in ecosystems where serious disturbance events (fires, slides, blowdowns, etc.) occur on a regular enough basis for the species to be adapted to them. In my neck of the woods (Colorado), this would include Ponderosa pine and Lodgepole pine. However, there are also species that are are adapted to grow in the understory when an overstory is already established. Douglas-fir in Colorado (but not on the west coast) is like this, as is Aspen. These species are typically slow-growing and prefer the moister/lower light conditions found in the understory of larger trees. It is typical for them to eventually out-compete their faster-growing friends, however, given a long enough period without disturbance. 

The point to all of the above is that I am thinking that shade tolerant species (of any tree, not just conifers) would typically be more appropriate for terraria than shade intolerant/pioneer species. For one thing, even the brightest of our lighting is probably closer to the light level experienced in understory rather than out in full sun. Also, the moisture level in many terraria is probably more similar to understory conditions than pioneer conditions. I don't know much about tree species outside the few areas I have worked in, but I am sure it wouldn't be too difficult to find out whether a species you are considering is a shade tolerant or shade intolerant tree. 

Can you grow shade intolerant trees in a terrarium, though? Yeah, I am guessing you can grow many of them, but they may not thrive the way a shade tolerant species might.

3) This a purely aesthetic concern, but I have always thought that conifers with finer/smaller needles/scales look better when the goal is to keep the tree small. I have always felt that bonsais with smaller leaves/needles/scales look better than something with a large leaf. So, I really like the look of short -needled pines and firs, spruces, junipers, cedars, etc. rather than long-needled pines. Totally a preference thing, though 

I would love to see more pictures as things develop, hydrophyte. Thanks for starting the thread!

Mark


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Encyclia said:


> This is a very interesting thread that I didn't see until now. Great job on the terraria, hydrophyte. I think conifers can be beautiful in that setting. Here are a few thoughts I had:
> 
> 1) For those that are thinking about them/have already put them in frog tanks, are you concerned about the lowered pH in the substrate from their litter?


I doubt there would be enough accumulation of needles to affect it too much. Plus the soil is already acidic (based on testing my tanks, this would obviously differ depending on soil/substrate) from the leaves breaking down, etc.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

boabab95 said:


> I doubt there would be enough accumulation of needles to affect it too much. Plus the soil is already acidic (based on testing my tanks, this would obviously differ depending on soil/substrate) from the leaves breaking down, etc.


You are probably right given the size of the trees we are talking about and the fact that we add other leaf litter to the mix of most of our vivs, too.

Mark


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Encyclia said:


> This is a very interesting thread that I didn't see until now. Great job on the terraria, hydrophyte. I think conifers can be beautiful in that setting. Here are a few thoughts I had:
> 
> 1) For those that are thinking about them/have already put them in frog tanks, are you concerned about the lowered pH in the substrate from their litter?
> 
> ...


Thanks for looking!

The effect on pH of the tiny amount of foliage from these little trees would be negligible. I have seen very few leaves fall from them as they grow. 

I wouldn't necessarily recommend conifers for growing with frogs because most of them would not represent the actual habitats very well. It seems as though most frog enthusiasts try to select plants that at least resemble the ones that grow wild in the frog species' habitats. I am more interested in representing temperate, tropical montane or Southern Hemipshere forests and I don't have any livestock in any of these displays. One interesting group that you could consider for keeping in a tropical vivarium is _Podocarpus_. There are several of these that grow in Neotropical forests and they are in general pretty interesting plants. Most _Podocarpus_, however, don't really look like conifers. They have broad leaves and many of them look more like olive trees to me. Most _Podocarpus_ are pretty easy to grow and they should be easy to prune as well. 

I have researched the ecology of these plants quite a bit already and I've tried to select the ones that grow in areas with more shade, higher humidity and without such marked seasonal temperature changes. These are some species, such as most _Pinus_ and _Juniperus_, that would probably not be very happy in a terrarium. Coast redwood obviously adapts very well. Redwood also has a growth habit that responds well to pruning. I have ordered a pine, (it should be here soon with the mail) _Pinus glabra_, that is unusual among pines because it grows up in mixed hardwood forests and develops well as a sapling in the shade. This species also has a Southern US (practically subtropical) distribution, so I hope it might adapt well. The very familiar and common eastern white pine (_Pinus strobus_) also grows in partial shade, but this is a northern plant that probably needs a cold winter dormancy. 

Most conifers have pretty fine foliage, but many pines do have very long needles that would not scale well in a terrarium enclosure.


----------

