# for anyone who breeds and sells darts



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

How hard is it to sell them I'm worried I'm going to get stuck with a ton of frogs and not be able to find a home for them by the way I'm thinking about breeding leucs.


----------



## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

it shouldn't be to hard with classifieds here. And if your have trouble i can take them off your hands for free! just kidding.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

frogboy said:


> it shouldn't be to hard with classifieds here. And if your have trouble i can take them off your hands for free! just kidding.


Lol  good point


----------



## WVFROGGER23 (Jan 5, 2010)

Its not hard at all. Seems like I can never keep any cobalt froglets around this winter.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

WVFROGGER23 said:


> Its not hard at all. Seems like I can never keep any cobalt froglets around this winter.


About how much do cobalts sell for? Are they good group frogs?


----------



## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Cobalts usually run around the $40-$45 range. However, they are NOT good group frogs. Aggression and stress become factors among all tincs. You're best bet is to get a male/female pair. Or, if you start with a group of froglets, you need to keep a watchful eye on them and be ready to seperate those who are stressed or bullied.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

WendySHall said:


> Cobalts usually run around the $40-$45 range. However, they are NOT good group frogs. Aggression and stress become factors among all tincs. You're best bet is to get a male/female pair. Or, if you start with a group of froglets, you need to keep a watchful eye on them and be ready to seperate those who are stressed or bullied.


ok I think im gonna stick with Leucs


----------



## WVFROGGER23 (Jan 5, 2010)

Cobalts are fine to keep in groups while they are froglets, just like any tinc. Around 4-5 months oow is a good time to split them up into smaller groups to observe for aggression and sexing characteristics. I can usually sex mine by 8-10 months oow. Once sexed you can have a trio of 2 males and 1 female if you prefer. I usually have the best luck with pairs rather than trios. If you're prices are good you will never keep them to 4 months oow. Sometimes I sell mine as low as $25 each, if I have a ton of the little guys and need the space. Tincs are very easy to breed and usually there is always a fanatic out there like myself ready to add more to his or her collection.


----------



## JJhuang (Feb 5, 2010)

Forums are good, Some local petstore will take alot( just make sure they know how to care for them) Local adds like craigslist all work.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

WVFROGGER23 said:


> Cobalts are fine to keep in groups while they are froglets, just like any tinc. Around 4-5 months oow is a good time to split them up into smaller groups to observe for aggression and sexing characteristics. I can usually sex mine by 8-10 months oow. Once sexed you can have a trio of 2 males and 1 female if you prefer. I usually have the best luck with pairs rather than trios. If you're prices are good you will never keep them to 4 months oow. Sometimes I sell mine as low as $25 each, if I have a ton of the little guys and need the space. Tincs are very easy to breed and usually there is always a fanatic out there like myself ready to add more to his or her collection.


Great point very reasuring thank you  I thought about it and What do I really have to loose if I sell them cheap ya know? All im doing is spreading the love to someone who may not be able to afford something more expenisve 


JJhuang said:


> Forums are good, Some local petstore will take alot( just make sure they know how to care for them) Local adds like craigslist all work.


I would honestly only try to sell to reptile stores if I cant find anyone from the forum/craigslist/ebay/anywhere else before I would think to sell to a pet store. lol I would keep 100 froglets if I had to to save them from pets smart/ petco. I wish I could save every poor chameleon at those places, but 100 dollars is just to much unfortuanetly :/


----------



## JJhuang (Feb 5, 2010)

There are specialty reptile/ amphibians stores that are family owned who do know how to care for them.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

JJhuang said:


> There are specialty reptile/ amphibians stores that are family owned who do know how to care for them.


I know what ya mean  thats what im saying if I sell to a store its gonna be a strictly amphibian/ reptile storre


----------



## froggymike (Jan 11, 2010)

check what others are selling their frogs for before selling your frogs. You do not want to flood the market with cheap frogs. You may end up pissing a lot of people off. 25 bucks for any dart is too cheap. Just thought I would let you know.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

froggymike said:


> check what others are selling their frogs for before selling your frogs. You do not want to flood the market with cheap frogs. You may end up pissing a lot of people off. 25 bucks for any dart is too cheap. Just thought I would let you know.


Ok thanks for that I would rather try to stay away from pissing people off lol, so if I were to sell leucs how much would you recomend selling for?


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

So what price should I sell them at to avoid peopple getting upset higher, lower, or the same?


----------



## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

I don't think $25 is too cheap for "any" dart frog. Too cheap for tincs. I see auratus morphs for that price from respected breeders pretty often. I just got a group of four Costa Ricans for $25 each. Just saying.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

froggymike said:


> check what others are selling their frogs for before selling your frogs. You do not want to flood the market with cheap frogs. You may end up pissing a lot of people off. 25 bucks for any dart is too cheap. Just thought I would let you know.


 
The problem is that this ignores supply and demand... there have been a number of frogs whose price dropped to $15 or less and weren't selling resulting in people getting out of them as being too common and the population crashed.. holding onto an ever increasing supply of frogs isn't the answer either.. 
The real answer is to wholesale them to some reseller outside of the hobby....regardless if they eventually end up in a bad store or not.. those stores are going to carry dart frogs whether they are captive bred or wild caught.. and it is better for the wild populations for those stores to lose captive bred frogs than for wild caught frogs to be brought in for that demand.. not only can this reduce the number of wild caught frogs sold into those kinds of stores but it prevents a glut of frogs in the hobby (as most of the hobby does not purchase captive bred frogs from the retailers..) but from each other. The dedicated people in the hobby are those that keep the frogs going but larger "stable" populations only seem to be kept around when there aren't big surpluses of the frogs... 

We have seen frogs come close to going extinct in the hobby and go extinct from these sorts of swings (and have been lucky enough to reaquire some of them through new imports..). Bumblebee toads were a casulty of this.. and did go extinct in the hobby.. 
Some of the Epidobates tricolor/anthyoni came close and there have been swings in the terriblis populations as well... 

(stable is in quotes as there are questions about long-term viability)..


----------



## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Not to mention, by selling to retail shops, you are encouraging more people to get into the hobby by raising their chances of having success with their first darts. And that's always a good thing.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I wouldn't be too worried. Leucs can be pretty tricky. Some people have great success with leucs, others (even advanced froggers) have _the_ hardest time with leucs.... But no, it shouldn't be an issue to keep them off your hands.


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Unless you are breeding on a large scale i doubt u will have a hard time finding your offspring homes, even on if u don't initially ship. I know that i would prefer to buy from a hobbyist than a place like petco/petsmart etc. for a multitude of reasons. Worry about that when you get to high level of productivity from your collection.


----------



## froggymike (Jan 11, 2010)

I agree, some auratus can go for that price. I am just saying to watch the price you put the frogs up for. It is Ok to be the cheapest, but not by much. $40 for leucs is usually a fair price. Explore the classifieds and you will find pricing on almost any frog.


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Honestly I wouldn't concern yourself with getting to many frogs, I think long before you concern yourself about how much you sell froglets for you research and get dart frog care under your belt and keeping the frogs fat and healthy. The rest will take care of itself in time. Cross that bridge once you get there.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Ed said:


> The problem is that this ignores supply and demand... there have been a number of frogs whose price dropped to $15 or less and weren't selling resulting in people getting out of them as being too common and the population crashed.. holding onto an ever increasing supply of frogs isn't the answer either..
> The real answer is to wholesale them to some reseller outside of the hobby....regardless if they eventually end up in a bad store or not.. those stores are going to carry dart frogs whether they are captive bred or wild caught.. and it is better for the wild populations for those stores to lose captive bred frogs than for wild caught frogs to be brought in for that demand.. not only can this reduce the number of wild caught frogs sold into those kinds of stores but it prevents a glut of frogs in the hobby (as most of the hobby does not purchase captive bred frogs from the retailers..) but from each other. The dedicated people in the hobby are those that keep the frogs going but larger "stable" populations only seem to be kept around when there aren't big surpluses of the frogs...
> 
> We have seen frogs come close to going extinct in the hobby and go extinct from these sorts of swings (and have been lucky enough to reaquire some of them through new imports..). Bumblebee toads were a casulty of this.. and did go extinct in the hobby..
> ...


You make very good points thank you, so what are you saying about the bumblebee frogs being extinct like are you meaning completely? Sorry if its a dumb question they obviuosly not extinct from the world because I saw one in a reptile store


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Thank you all for the help it has helped out a lot


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

yoshi9 said:


> You make very good points thank you, so what are you saying about the bumblebee frogs being extinct like are you meaning completely? Sorry if its a dumb question they obviuosly not extinct from the world because I saw one in a reptile store


Bumble bee toads have been imported every so often since the 1980s (usually for between 2-5 years and then a 5-10 year absence) but there is no guarantee that they will continue to be imported. In the last go around, a number of people got into them and there were some breedings... the offspring didn't sell (even at $15 each) well and many people stopped trying to breed them or sold off thier adults. As a result when the country stopped exporting the toads, all of sudden no one had any females left.. and the only reason we have them again is because they imported them again..... but keep in mind that this could also be the last time they are imported... 

Unless they are smuggled out once a country closes down its shipments, there are no guarantees that they will ever be exported again as that is up to the country of origin..... 

I think we have already seen this with a couple of types of mantellas.. (and for those who have been around for a long time... Blomberg's Toads were in the pet trade at one time...and never since...)


----------



## mjahnke (Sep 8, 2008)

Leucs are a great starter frog. Although they can be kept in groups. I still wouldn't keep two females together if you want to breed them. Mine would always end up eating each others eggs.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Ed said:


> Bumble bee toads have been imported every so often since the 1980s (usually for between 2-5 years and then a 5-10 year absence) but there is no guarantee that they will continue to be imported. In the last go around, a number of people got into them and there were some breedings... the offspring didn't sell (even at $15 each) well and many people stopped trying to breed them or sold off thier adults. As a result when the country stopped exporting the toads, all of sudden no one had any females left.. and the only reason we have them again is because they imported them again..... but keep in mind that this could also be the last time they are imported...
> 
> Unless they are smuggled out once a country closes down its shipments, there are no guarantees that they will ever be exported again as that is up to the country of origin.....
> 
> I think we have already seen this with a couple of types of mantellas.. (and for those who have been around for a long time... Blomberg's Toads were in the pet trade at one time...and never since...)


Should I try to get two sexed?


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

mjahnke said:


> Leucs are a great starter frog. Although they can be kept in groups. I still wouldn't keep two females together if you want to breed them. Mine would always end up eating each others eggs.


Ok so how many should I get of leucs if I want them to breed and keep them in the same 55 gal tank?


----------



## JJhuang (Feb 5, 2010)

You can buy a few and then once they are sexable sell off your excess and keep a 2.1 ratio if you want.


----------



## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

yoshi9 said:


> How hard is it to sell them I'm worried I'm going to get stuck with a ton of frogs and not be able to find a home for them by the way I'm thinking about breeding leucs.


In my experience its been easy to keep the cb darts I breed going out the door, then again not many say no to free frogs. Ive done this as well.

Michael


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

JJhuang said:


> You can buy a few and then once they are sexable sell off your excess and keep a 2.1 ratio if you want.


2 boys 1 girl?


----------



## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Yes, 2.1 means two males and one female. That or a pair work best for prolific breeding in my experience. Take your time and enjoy them growing up, then let them breed when they are ready. You shouldn't have a problem unloading them since they are so popular. They are easy to breed for me, but they generally aren't the kind of frogs that will overrun you quickly with froglets if you manage them well. I have produced quite a few, and typically sell mine to local hobbyists and nice aquarium pet stores within the area for about $35 each.
Bryan


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Yes, 2.1 means two males and one female. That or a pair work best for prolific breeding in my experience. Take your time and enjoy them growing up, then let them breed when they are ready. You shouldn't have a problem unloading them since they are so popular. They are easy to breed for me, but they generally aren't the kind of frogs that will overrun you quickly with froglets if you manage them well. I have produced quite a few, and typically sell mine to local hobbyists and nice aquarium pet stores within the area for about $35 each.
> Bryan


ok thanks Bryan I just wanted to get a idea of things because im going to have a few frogs in one tank (of them same breed) so breeding may happen so I just want to be prepared


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

yoshi9 said:


> ok thanks Bryan I just wanted to get a idea of things because im going to have a few frogs in one tank (of them same breed) so breeding may happen so I just want to be prepared


Good idea! Some folks get froglets right away and then others (me) are still waiting almost a year later. Well, had to give them time to grow up I guess.


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

frogface said:


> Good idea! Some folks get froglets right away and then others (me) are still waiting almost a year later. Well, had to give them time to grow up I guess.


guess so lol


----------



## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

poison beauties said:


> In my experience its been easy to keep the cb darts I breed going out the door, then again not many say no to free frogs. Ive done this as well.
> 
> Michael


You can put me on the list for free frogs LOL


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

oddlot said:


> You can put me on the list for free frogs LOL


Not until he ships me mine!


----------



## yoshi9 (Feb 15, 2011)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Not until he ships me mine!


ok wooooo! I dont even have mine yet im number one on the list!


----------



## Gumby (May 27, 2010)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> I have produced quite a few, and typically sell mine to local hobbyists and nice aquarium pet stores within the area for about $35 each.
> Bryan


Just curious, but what aquarium stores do you sell too? I've seen a few darts at this place called Exotic Aquatics by Perring Parkway. Is it possible you sold to them? Im just curious haha

-Chris


----------

