# 18X24X24 Exo Terra Vivarium - Build Log



## Steve88W

I am building an 18"x24"x24" tall Exo Terra Vivarium to be the future home of a Azureus dart frog couple.

First, I want to thank Raf for sharing information on how he built his tank.
(you can see his build thread HERE)

Here's what I started out with:









Just to give anyone an idea on how much a build like this can cost, I'll list how much I've spent so far...
*Shopping List: * 
1. The tank = $160
2. Exo Terra light hood = $40
3. Light bulbs = $10
4. Black GEII Silicone Tubes = (2 x $5.20)
5. Clear GEI Silicone Tubes = (9 x $4.25)
6. Great Stuff expanding foam - small cracks (3 x $3.00)
7. Great Stuff expanding foam - large openings (1 x $3.50)
8. Hydroboton - expanded clay balls = $25
9. Small poly rope = $5
10. Medium poly rope = $11
11. Large poly rope (6') = $10
12 Large bag of peat = $11
13 3-pack of coco bricks = $9.50
14. Roll of window screen = $7.50
15. Silicone solvent (2 x $8.20)
16. Sphagnum Moss brick = $3.50
17. Misc Dollar Store buckets = $3.00
18. 3 bags of Dollar Store rocks = $3.00
19. 2 x 3-pack Dollar Store paint brushes = $2.00
20. Dollar Store sifter = $1.00
21. Box of latex gloves = $6.00
22. Dollar Store spray bottle = $1.00
23. Power Strip = $4.50
24. Roll of masking tape = $1.25
25. Box of toothpicks = $1.00
26. Small bottle of Gorilla Glue = $4.00
27. Caulking Gun = $4.00
28. X-acto Knife = $3.50
29. 4" Water Pipe x 8' = $9.00
30. 1/2" Vinyl Tubing x 3' = $1.25
31. Fountain Water Pump = $20.00
32. Misc PVC parts (I'll list them later) = $3.50
33. Plant baskets = $3.00
34. PVC Pipes = $4.00
35. Small sprinkler tubing x 3' = $3.00

My wife gave me a 'budget' of $350 for this project.... 
Well.... let's just say I ended up buying her a new iPhone 4 to help her look the other way!... 

I'll update more as time permits....


----------



## Steve88W

*Step One:*
Unbox the tank, inspect for damage, clean the glass, add more silicone to bottom corners to ensure no water leaks.










*Step Two: *
I lined the 3 walls with two coats of black silicone.
I wanted a clean look from the outside of the tank and I later learned that this made it easier to trim back the expanding foam when it came time for the final detailing.



















*Step Three: *
I started to bend some PVC pipes and cut some rope to create a mock-up of how I wanted it to look


----------



## Steve88W

reserved1 for future post


----------



## Steve88W

reserved2 for future post


----------



## Steve88W

Wow... I guess I can't edit or delete my own posts after a certain amount of time?


----------



## dartboard

1 hour to edit..... thats all you get, but keep us updated, this is a fun way to watch it unfold


----------



## Steve88W

*Step Three (explained):*
I used a gas torch to heat up the PVC pipe enough so that I could bend it.
DO THIS OUTSIDE! The fumes are toxic and if you're dead, who's gonna catch all of those loose flies?

*Step Four: *
Figure out your water feature (if you so chose this PITA).
I chose to install a drip wall so that I could keep the water naturally filtered, promote moss growth, and to increase humidity.

I cut a 4" pipe to size and notched the bottom to allow water to flow in.
I covered the bottom with a scrap of window screen to keep the water pump clear of debris.










*Step Five:*
FOAM!
I placed the tank on it's back and applied a layer of Great Stuff expanding foam. This helped to 'glue' the bent PVC pipes in place and to keep the 4" water pipe in place.










Since I have PVC pipes on both of the sides, I waited 24 hours then placed the tank on it's side to coat that wall with foam. (repeat for the opposite side)


----------



## Steve88W

*Step Six:* 
I purchased a few plants for this tank and 'borrowed' their baskets for this step.
I used a toothpick to hold the basket in place and inserted a 6" piece of 1/4" sprinkler tubing into the bottom of the basket to help facilitate drainage. 










When I was happy with the location, I used more Great Stuff (large gap type this time) to build up an area around the basket to glue securely.










*Step Seven:* 
Time to create some vines!
I used three different sizes of poly rope to create random vines.
Use your imagination or better yet, search for pictures of real jungle vines for inspiration. Take your time and mock up the vines before securing them. I used more toothpicks to secure the ropes while I trying out different layouts.


----------



## Steve88W

*Step Eight:* 
Time to get the drip wall set up.
I measured the inside height of the 4" water pipe to see how tall I need to make the apparatus.










I used the following parts (purchased from a local Do-It-Center)
(1) Right Angle 1/2" tubing to 1/2" threaded connector
(1) Ball Valve
(1) 1/2" sprinkler riser pipe (12")
(1) 1/2" threaded coupler
(1) 1/2" tubing to 1/2" threaded connector
(1) 3" long 1/2" vinyl tubing
(1) fountain pump

The ball valve makes it easy for me to control the water flow without having to remove the pump. If I ever have to replace or clean the pump, all I have to do is disconnect the vinyl tubing at the top of the apparatus and pull this entire piece out.

Here's how it looks when it is installed in the 4" water pipe.
(I drilled a 5/8" hole through the side of the pipe for the vinyl tubing and used silicone to seal it up)









The drip wall is just a section of 1/2" vinyl tubing that I installed after removing a section of foam off of the back wall.









*Step Nine:*
Peat filtering...
I used a standard drainer from the dollar store to sift through the bag of peat and separate the fine peat from the rest. I plan on using the fine stuff for the walls and the rest for the substrate.


----------



## Steve88W

*Step Ten: *
Oh what a mess!
This step will take me about 2 weeks or more to complete.
I've already burned through enough silicone to make a plastic surgeon jealous....

I used a mixture of the following:
1 Part Toluene
2 Parts Silicone
1 Part Peat

Mix it very well. It should have the consistency of brownie batter.
Too thick and it'll be hard to smash into the small crevices. Too thin will not coat the background properly.

I used a cheap paint brush (from the dollar store) to spread the mixture onto the background and ropes. Take your time and get all of the crevices. I would use an entire tube of silicone at one time and this would only cover about one square foot of background. Once you are done, take a handful of dry peat and throw it against the wet silicone areas. Allow this area to completely dry and then gently brush off the excess peat. (I used a clean paint brush for this)

Here's an example of my first coat









I expect this to take at least 2-3 coats.

Here's a great example of why you brush off the excess after it has had time to dry.








Notice the areas where I missed with the silicone mixture?

That's all I've got for now...
I've been spending an hour every night for the last week trying to get a good coating of peat on this tank.... Do yourself a BIG favor and make sure you have PLENTY of ventilation. The fumes of the curing silicone can be overwhelming. 

One last bit of advice....wear a face mask when applying the peat. This stuff is so fine that you'll get a good coating of the stuff in your lungs and nose pretty quickly!


----------



## Rancorrye

Looking good. I'm excited to see how this turns out.


----------



## 31drew31

Looks really nice! I'm excited to see it finished.


----------



## Steve88W

I finished the silicone/peat part of this project (finally)



















Now it's time to let the tank sit for a few days to cure and stop smelling like a chemical spill. 

Next week, I'll take the tank to my office and set up the substrate and plants there.


----------



## ryan10517

lookin good. how are you going to add a drainage layer/ false bottom? It will be difficult getting screen or weedblocker around your root system


----------



## Steve88W

I'm using about 3 inches hydroton first, then 2 screens cut to fit around the roots. (in opposite directions so the cut lines don't line up) then a few inches of a soil/coco/peat/sand mix. There will be a small pond area in the front right corner with gravel. The moss in the background is actually a drip wall that ends in gravel to facilitate easy drainage without flooding the soil. Now I just need to figure out the plants. I'm hoping for some sort of floating lilypad type plant in the water, a fluffy moss to grow all over, as well as the usual vivarium plants (like broms).

Know any good mosses?
I might buy some kyoto spores online but was thinking of buying a flat of moss from Home Depot. Just don't know if it'll survive.


----------



## Raf

Looks great! 
When it's finished and you pour water into the viv let it stay for a few days before introducing plants. You always miss some spots and the water will wash the peat away so the uncovered spots will be visible and can be corrected.


----------



## Steve88W

I used a vacuum to suck up all if the loose material after what I thought was my last coat and discovered several spots that I had missed.

Thanks for the tip.
I was planning on giving the whole tank a mild rinse and to fine tune the drip wall.

Oh, one last note... Do your final inspections during the daytime. I usually work on this project at night so the angle of light was always from above. Yesterday I opened up the garage and could see several areas that I missed too.


----------



## Colleen53

ryan10517 said:


> lookin good. how are you going to add a drainage layer/ false bottom? It will be difficult getting screen or weedblocker around your root system


Wow, you have done a wonderful and time consuming "labor of love job". I enjoyed your post. One comment though (above) was what I was thinking of. When I use a water pump feature in my tanks/false bottoms, I do not use app. 4" off the bottom. The water will get pretty dirty with the soil and it is much easier to line your false bottom. Can't wait to see it finished!


----------



## Steve88W

I was hoping that the screen covering the water pump tube would prevent large particles and that the drip wall would be my biological filter. I plan on keeping the soil out of direct contact of the water level by using a deep layer of Hydroton with a screen covering. Is this a bad idea? From what I read, it acts like a false bottom by allowing the water to flow through.


----------



## Colleen53

I don't know other peoples' experience, but I have always black silicone the walls where I will be adding the background (it adheres best to the glass and then the substance). However I leave about 4"-5" off the ground and work up from there with my backgrounds. 4"-5" gives me plenty to work with my false bottom, soil or whatever. My water does not cloud up because of this. This is why I really would like to hear how yours comes out. And honestly, it saves me alittle work not having to do that extra 4"-5". Your not going to see it.


----------



## Steve88W

The walls are coated in black silicone so if I really need to I can trim the bottom as needed. Your water turned cloudy because of the contact with the foam?


----------



## Colleen53

My water has not turned cloudy or dirty (I should have said dirty) as I don't have any water touching the substances, soil in your case. Eventually that soil will break down in the bottom and yes, it will not be clean looking.


----------



## ryan10517

Steve88W said:


> Now I just need to figure out the plants. I'm hoping for some sort of floating lilypad type plant in the water, a fluffy moss to grow all over, as well as the usual vivarium plants


One floating plant that comes to mind is dwarf pistia stratiotes (dwarf water lettuce) Frogbit would look nice in there as well.


----------



## Steve88W

Glad I listened and ran some water through the tank.
I found a lot more unfinished spots than expected.
After two more days of silicone/peat treatments, the tank is finally ready to take to my office.

If all goes well, I should have updated pictures in a day or two....
(didnt want to do the substrate until after the tank is in place.


----------



## FwoGiZ

how many silicone tube did you use X_O isnt this costy?
i usually try to stick a large piece of natural cork on my curing GS, then i fill the rest with titebond + coir mix... i thought it was pretty costy (titebond III is expensive) but if i understand your method, you would be using more than 9 silicone tube for this background?

im pretty sure your 4" pvp pipe will clog at the bottom, the holes are way too small
i usually do a bit like Coleen said, i make sure my FB is sealed away from everything but water, and cut a 1"x1" hold at the bottom
i used to glue a piece of weedmeshX but i dont anymore as there is no dirt if sealed properly and it just slows water way too much... its not like fiberglass mesh
HERE's a pic of what i mean.. you can barely see the hole in the 4"abs from the side, you can also notice i seal everything with black silicone
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/FwoGiZ/Avatars/workshop/IMG_2785.jpg

very nice looking up until now! love the vines thing... i sometimes disguise my power cords or tubing this way


----------



## Steve88W

I've lost count on how many tubes of silicone I've used... at least 10 by now.
If the screen covering the bottom of the 4" tube clogs up, I can just cut it out entirely. If you look at the first pictures of the tube you'll see that I notched out several spots and this can act as a larger diameter filter if needed. We'll see how it does over time...

I got the tank to work safe and sound!
Here's a picture of how it looks for now.









I plan on letting the tank settle for a few weeks.
I'm going to change the plants around a bit and add 3 bromeliads which means I might end up removing a couple of other plants.

Next week I'm hoping to add springtails and isopods to get them established.
If all goes well, I should be ordering my frogs in about a month!

The water feature is in the front right corner and is pretty small.
I didn't want to take too much floor space away from the future inhabitants.










I'll post better pictures when I get more time.


----------



## Colleen53

Looks very nice. The plants will grow in quick and unfortunately you won't be able to see all that work you did with the vines. I learned that awhile back-don't put too much time on the background. It will fill in with plants, which is what we want. Your frogs will love it!!


----------



## lauraleellbp

Which Exo Terra light fixture are you using?


----------



## Steve88W

I'm using the 24" wide compact top
(AMAZON has one here)

I have 2 CFL's for the plants and one low wattage blue light for night use if it ever gets cold in the office.


----------



## heatfreakk3

Looks good! I would suggest some leaf litter though.


----------



## Steve88W

Things on order:

Leaf Litter
Bromeliads
Springtails
Isopods
Black Jungle - feeding dish
and eventually... frogs 

I insulated the 4" tube to reduce the noise from the filter today.
(stuffed packing material into the tube but above the water line)
Not sure if I mentioned it before but I'm using the lid from a can of coffee to cover the 4" pipe. It is also covered with silicone/peat so it blends right in and the tank top sits perfectly on top of it.

Here's a shot of what it looks like at work.


----------



## FwoGiZ

very nice work!!!
+1 on leaf litter
that pond is just perfect size for that tank and darts frog if you ask me!


----------



## nyfrogs

Congratz! now you will get no work done! lol
good looking tank


----------



## smilin-buddha

Very nice I really like the look of that. 
Especially in your office


----------



## fishr

haha I love the viv is near the keyboard. Good work! 

Where are you ordering your isopods Steve? Just wondering.


----------



## Steve88W

I was hoping to find a So California source for the live bugs but have not been successful yet. I'll probably end up just ordering them online from a site sponsor.

If you know of a good place, please let me know.
I'm hoping to buy the bugs this week and start seeding the tank.


----------



## fishr

Josh's Frogs sells temperate and tropical springs. I placed an order this weekend for a culture and some of his live moss to try, among other things.


----------



## Arpeggio

I'm not seeing half the photos, update?


----------



## vivlover10

no photos for me either. I can't see the one on this page.


----------



## Steve88W

How's this?









(stupid Flickr....)


----------



## Colleen53

The picture was there the other day Very nice set-up BTW!!


----------



## raelaf

I can't see the previous pictures but the one that showed up looks amazing! Can't wait to see more of it


----------



## Steve88W

Thanks!
I'm going to upload the photos to a different service and try again tonight.

Anyone ever try a small ghost shrimp or scud for their water area? My 'pond' is pretty small but I could rearrange the rocks to make it feel deeper. That water is lightly filtered by dripping down the moss on the back wall 8 different times a day.


----------



## ryan10517

ghost shrimp would do fine in your water feature. Amano shrimp would also work well and help keep the algae in check. they naturally live in swamps and bogs so water quality for those 2 is generally not super important. They can live in very small amounts of water also. Iv'e kept ghost shrimp in a hollowed out light bulb before


----------



## Arpeggio

The background turned out great!


----------



## Steve88W

Ok, I've uploaded the pictures to Picasa Web Albums

Here are the basics

*Before:*


















*During:*













































*And finally... AFTER!:*



















I have since added 9 bromeliad pups, 2 ghost shrimps, ordered the isopods, springtails, leaf litter, coco hut, small piece of driftwood, and kyoto moss.

I'll update this post once the tank has grown in a bit and the new inhabitants are out and about.


----------



## Steve88W

Just a small update:
Installed a coco-hut even though there is already a built-in area under the 'root' system. (more hides the better I suppose)

Leaf litter, jungle pods, isopods, and springtails should arrive any moment!

I added some moss that I found at a local nursery that was growing under some large leafy 1gal plants. I have it in a small test area next to the Java moss to see if it'll survive. (yes, washed in warm water with a couple of drops of bleach)










Kyoto moss spores added in several areas. Should be about a month before I know if it'll grow.

The two ghost shrimp seem to be doing rather well.
I'm feeding them tadpole bites. 3-4 little pellets once a day.
They're getting used to the routine and quickly move in to gobble up the food.
Please chime in if you think I'm over feeding them.


----------



## fishr

Sweet tank! Lovin' the greenery. Ghost shrimp are fantastic little buggers, erm, evn though I used to use them as feeders, um, but that's beside the point. They are very neat and seem almost undemanding. Cherry shrimp are my favorites.


----------



## dfrmav

what are those tall skinny plants you have on the bottom with leaves coming off the main stem?


----------



## Steve88W

I think the plants you are referring to are the small tropical palms.
I picked them up at a local Nursery for about $1.50. They sell them at Lowe's, Home Depot, and probably anywhere that sells house plants. After rinsing out the old soil, I carefully split them apart and now they're growing like crazy! I like how they look but don't think they'll handle a frog crawling on them so I'm going to keep them out of high traffic areas.

@fishr - 
Shrimp as food? Who would do such a thing? Oh yeah, Me 
I wanted to cycle the tank water so they were my test subjects. 
If I knew they were going to survive, I probably would have purchased the Cherry Shrimp. These guys are fun to watch.


----------



## pet-teez

I think the palms are Areca palms


----------



## Steve88W

The pump I used for this tank was 5 years old and finally died...
Luckily I built the water feature so that it would be easy to swap it out.
I picked up THIS PUMP for about $15 and it is actually a lot more quiet than the last one!

Frogs have been ordered from Patrick and should arrive early next week!


----------



## whatamithinking02

Love this tank!


----------



## Steve88W

Frogs should be here Tuesday!



















Their house is ready


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Nice viv..
The peat mix you made...I'm not sure of what Toluene is...

Once you did this did you apply clay or will it dry to have that greyish look?


----------



## Steve88W

Toluene is an industrial solvent to thin out the silicone.
I would mix 1 part toluene and 2 parts silicone for about 2 minutes until the silicone had the thickness of runny pancake batter. I then grab a handful of filtered peat and mix it in. Take a cheap 1" paint brush and start mashing this goop into all of the small crevices. I only worked in a square foot area at a time. When you think your area is well covered, grab small handfuls of peat and throw/smash/cover the wet areas with as much peat as possible. 
** Spouse Warning **
This step is very messy and smelly! 

Just keep repeating until the tank is done.
Make sure to vacuum out the excess peat before applying additional coats. Your final step should be to rinse the entire area and look for any areas you may have missed.

I'm not sure if this was necessary, but I applied my first layer with just pure silicone to make sure everything would be as waterproof as possible.

I did not use clay. My tank is expanding foam (Great Stuff), bent PVC pipes, ropes, and a whole bunch of silicone. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

I just don't see how you're getting that darkness...
Is that from it just being moist all the time?

When you do the silicone mixture do you use the clear silicone.

Most have told me to use black or the background will show up.


----------



## Steve88W

I use clear silicone. The colored silicone that I found all had the mold inhibitor and I wanted to give my 'roots' a chance to grow moss all over. I have no idea if the mold inhibitor would have any negative affect though.

If you spread clear silicone and then press peat into it, you can end up with some background showing up. If you mix peat into the silicone first and then spread it around AND finish by pressing peat on top, then you get great coverage.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Thanks Steve.
Can't wait to see your frogs in there


----------



## Steve88W

Oops, forgot to mention...
The darkness is when the walls are damp. It looks great after I mist the tank!

When the walls are dry, it looks like dry peat


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Does it dry out pretty quick?
I usually mist my tanks twice a day with one of those pesticide pump sprayers.


----------



## Steve88W

If you keep the humidity high, the walls will stay dark a long time (20+ hours) but tend to dry faster near heat sources like my light.

I used the screen top to the ExoTerra and placed cut glass on the inside of the four spots. I had the two pieces in the front cut again so I can control ventilation by sliding the glass back and forth.

Misting twice a day should keep the tank looking dark, moist, and awesome!


----------



## Steve88W

Frogs arrived finally!










The female is hiding under the 'roots'.
I've got the lights pretty dim in there until they adjust.

Here's the lovely couple checking out their new digs









Oh, and the mushroom just popped up overnight.
(sorry for the phone-quality pics)


----------



## GRIMM

Great build man. I have been searching for others that have tried to thin out silicone using toluene, and mixing a substrate in with the mixture. Glad it worked out well for you, I'll be using it for my next build. I was worried it wouldnt stick very well with the peat added before the application. Your good experience using this method has lowered my stress levels lol.

How much time does it add to the curing time? Typically when using plain silicone it is fully cured after 24 hours. Did you have to wait any longer then this, or did the thinner application coats make for a quicker dry time?


----------



## Steve88W

I still gave the tank a 24-hour cure time between coats.
The dry time may have been quicker but I think the smell lasts longer due to the solvent. Normally, the silicone cure smell will fade fairly quickly but the solvent smell was pretty potent for 2 weeks.

The solvent, silicone, substrate mix worked great.
I'm just hoping it lasts as I have some areas submerged and most not.

So far, I have had NO issues with the silicone not sticking to the background even after several layers. Again, I started with a base coat of pure silicone just in case. (probably not needed)

I'm glad I took my time and gave myself 6 weeks to build the tank and another 3 weeks to let the tank settle in with plants, water, substrate, etc.
I was fine-tuning the drip wall for 2 weeks and would hate to have a frog escape while adjusting things.

*Tip for beginners:* start bug cultures sooner so that you have plenty to seed the tank with when you're ready.


----------



## Steve88W

Is it normal for the male to be calling already?
They are following each other around the tank and the male is calling.
I haven't seen the female patting the male yet and she doesn't appear all that interested just yet. They are climbing up the walls and still exploring the new tank.

Guess I better bring the petri dishes to work tomorrow!


----------



## Steve88W

Sorry for the update spamming but the female is patting the male and they've been chasing each other for hours.

I hope I don't get in trouble for watching 'frog porn' at work.


----------



## ryan10517

Steve88W said:


> Sorry for the update spamming but the female is patting the male and they've been chasing each other for hours.
> 
> I hope I don't get in trouble for watching 'frog porn' at work.


just ask your boss if he would rather you be watching frog porn or real porn. I don't think they would complain to much lol


----------



## Steve88W

Here's a video of the 'action'


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

I can't seem to find this Toluene anywhere
I have looked all over and can't seem to find it
Where did you purchase it?


----------



## Steve88W

I read the ingredients on some "Industrial Solvent" cans at Home Depot.
I'll take a look at exactly what I bought and post a better picture.
(It's the blue can on the first picture of this post)


----------



## Steve88W

Here's a picture of what I used.
("Industrial Maintenance Coating Thinner" - in a blue metal can)

It's probably toxic as hell, it sure smells that way.
Give it PLENTY of time to clear out and keep your work area well ventilated.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Thanks
How much did you thin it out?
I've never done mixtures much so forgive my srupidity...
When you say 1part this and 1part that that means if I'm using say a 3oz container of solvent I use the same size 3oz container of silicone and 3oz container of peat moss?
And if something calls for 3parts it wouls be 9oz?

Haha I feel stuid....gotta learn some sometime tho


----------



## Steve88W

Questions aren't dumb.... some answers are though!

Yes, you are correct 1 part A plus 1 part B is the same as 50% A and 50% B.
1 part A + 1 part B + 1 part C = 33% of each etc etc...

At first I used:
1/2 a tube of silicone (call it 2 parts)
1 part solvent
1 part peat (after mixing the solvent into the silicone thoroughly)

I mixed this together in a large plastic bowl with a paint mixing stick.
I applied the goop with a cheap 1" paint brush so I could smash the goop into the small crevices. After I applied the whole batch, I grabbed handfulls of the dry peat and threw it at the wet goop then smooshed more peat to cover all areas. 24 hours later I used a clean paintbrush to dust off the area and applied more coats of goop as necessary.


When I got better, I used the whole tube of silicone with the same ratio of solvent and peat. (just doubling the size of the batch)

Start on a small area or even on an spare piece to see how it works.
It'll look a lot different once it dries.


----------



## LRobb88

Steve,
I'm working on a drip wall right now and like the look of yours. Is that sphagnum just stuck on with the same method as you applied the peat or is that something else? Also, you mentioned that it ends in gravel briefly but I was hoping you might go into more depth on that...I'm concerned about my soil staying too saturated right below the wall. 

Thanks! Tank looks awesome, I wish I could have one at work!

-Logan


----------



## Steve88W

Yes, I stuck the sphagnum moss to the drip wall the same way.
I mixed up some goop (see above post), covered the drip wall area, then while still wet, smooshed the moss into the wet silicone. I expected most of the moss to eventually fall off or rot away. I am hoping that other moss will start to grow over the sphagnum.

Along the bottom area of the drip wall, I placed larger (1" around) flat stones vertically going all the way down into the drainage layer (in my case - I used the Hydroton clay balls) This way the water from the drip wall hits the rocks and drains directly into the water layer. I did not want to over saturate the soil layer.

So... about 1" wide, the entire length of the drip wall, going all the way down to the drainage layer.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

I'm here at home depot and they don't carry the Industrial Maintence Coating Thinner you are using....
They do however have Xtlene tho but is the gallon container for like $20
All they have here is paint thinner, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits and turpentine
Will any of these work?

I'm about to go back to Lowes and check there again...maybe I looked over it


----------



## Steve88W

You can try looking at the ingredients or possibly ordering the right stuff online. I ended up using 1.5 cans of the $8 size in the picture.

To my knowledge (which is limited) the lacquer thinner might be closest. Ask the experts what they would use to thin out silicone and dries inert.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

There isn't any exsperts here....
Only idoits with a name tag.
It took them 6 times to cut the glass right for my tank lol
They have no idea what I'm even asking for lol
I couldn't find the one you got online.
I found some toluene online but by time I get it shipped its gonna be like close to $30 and that's for a 1gallon container.
I'll try to do some more research...
Who or what trade would thin silicone tho?


----------



## mingeace

Steve88W said:


> I read the ingredients on some "Industrial Solvent" cans at Home Depot.
> I'll take a look at exactly what I bought and post a better picture.
> (It's the blue can on the first picture of this post)


Hello for those of you who have found this great "step by step" but are struggling with getting this toluene, I have done some research and have some info that may help.

First I talked to Homedepot (didnt have it, or know what it is) then I talked to an auto paint store who knew what it was and had it and said it will work to delude silicone. They were closing but told me to call sherwin williams which didnt have any but knew a lot about it. Toluene, said the man, is chemically almost identical to xylene and xylene will do exactly what toluene does in regards to silicone, except for that xylene gives you a few more minutes of working/non-evaporating time. And xylene was offered at home depot in quart cans. I could only find toluene in gallons, at the least, and only at the auto paint store ha.

Also dont fear about any chemicals remaining in the tank. All these products and thinners will completely evaporate in time. I would give it a few days though to be totally sure. 

hope this helps a bit.


----------



## GRIMM

I just did the first few sections using the silicone/peat/toluene mixture, and I like it so far....Or maybe the fumes are just making me loopy, I dont know lol

But seriously, it is much easier to get even coverage when compared to just plain silicone. I would suggest removing the foam skin to ensure a good grip. Like all silicone, it will slide off the smooth sections and only leave a tiny film behind for sticking peat to it. And have a fan running, with doors open while using toluene. If I didnt have a 200 pound tank I would be applying it outside for sure.

My gallon metal tub was found in the paint section of home depot...With a giant "TOLUENE" right on the front of it. Easy to find!


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

mingeace said:


> Hello for those of you who have found this great "step by step" but are struggling with getting this toluene, I have done some research and have some info that may help.
> 
> First I talked to Homedepot (didnt have it, or know what it is) then I talked to an auto paint store who knew what it was and had it and said it will work to delude silicone. They were closing but told me to call sherwin williams which didnt have any but knew a lot about it. Toluene, said the man, is chemically almost identical to xylene and xylene will do exactly what toluene does in regards to silicone, except for that xylene gives you a few more minutes of working/non-evaporating time. And xylene was offered at home depot in quart cans. I could only find toluene in gallons, at the least, and only at the auto paint store ha.
> 
> Also dont fear about any chemicals remaining in the tank. All these products and thinners will completely evaporate in time. I would give it a few days though to be totally sure.
> 
> hope this helps a bit.


I can't find the xylene in quarts only gallons....at Home Depot and Lowes doesn't have anything but basic thinners.

Also about the evaporation....I'm a little hesitant about it cause how can something evoporate if it's sealed by the silicone?


----------



## mingeace

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I can't find the xylene in quarts only gallons....at Home Depot and Lowes doesn't have anything but basic thinners.
> 
> Also about the evaporation....I'm a little hesitant about it cause how can something evoporate if it's sealed by the silicone?



Yeah I feel your pain I went to Home depot today to pick up the xylene and dropped 20 big ones for it, wasn't happy. Then I went to Smiths Market Place (not just Smiths, theres a difference in Utah) to get my peat moss and noticed a Klean-strip quart can of some kind of eco friendly 100% made of tree resin "pure Turpentine", and right on the bottle it said "substitute for xylene and toluene" ha. That got my attention so I called the sherwin williams paint guy and asked about if this exact stuff would work for the viv set up, (yeah I went into all the details about the silicone and peat and live animals, the guy probably hated me, but was very friendly) he said it would do the exact same thing. Here it is...









Also with the evaporation thing I had two independent paint guys (one automotive the other home) and they both said it totally evaporates. I then even asked the third guy about 100% evaporation of the new found stuff and he said yeah thats what they do. So I dont know how it works but I trust em.

Sorry if you got the xylene, bum wrap, but I just plan on returning it cause I got lucky and hadnt opened it yet.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

mingeace said:


> Yeah I feel your pain I went to Home depot today to pick up the xylene and dropped 20 big ones for it, wasn't happy. Then I went to Smiths Market Place (not just Smiths, theres a difference in Utah) to get my peat moss and noticed a Klean-strip quart can of some kind of eco friendly 100% made of tree resin "pure Turpentine", and right on the bottle it said "substitute for xylene and toluene" ha. That got my attention so I called the sherwin williams paint guy and asked about if this exact stuff would work for the viv set up, (yeah I went into all the details about the silicone and peat and live animals, the guy probably hated me, but was very friendly) he said it would do the exact same thing. Here it is...
> 
> View attachment 18129
> 
> 
> Also with the evaporation thing I had two independent paint guys (one automotive the other home) and they both said it totally evaporates. I then even asked the third guy about 100% evaporation of the new found stuff and he said yeah thats what they do. So I dont know how it works but I trust em.
> 
> Sorry if you got the xylene, bum wrap, but I just plan on returning it cause I got lucky and hadnt opened it yet.


I'm in Georgia next to Alanta.....I don't think we have those stores around here.

I also wish I could find a nursery around here that had all kinds of terrarium plants lol.
This is so irritating lol


----------



## Steve88W

Just a quick update:

The tank is holding up well.
Some of the moss I used didn't do so well but the other plants are growing nicely.

Sam-n-Ella are doing fine (say their name a few times and you'll get it  )

I let them raise a few tads and now they're in the water.








They hatched on Friday the 13th (we have that in common....)

There are 3 from that clutch that made it.









Pretty cool watching them grow while I'm at work.


----------



## FwoGiZ

mingeace said:


> Yeah I feel your pain I went to Home depot today to pick up the xylene and dropped 20 big ones for it, wasn't happy. Then I went to Smiths Market Place (not just Smiths, theres a difference in Utah) to get my peat moss and noticed a Klean-strip quart can of some kind of eco friendly 100% made of tree resin "pure Turpentine", and right on the bottle it said "substitute for xylene and toluene" ha. That got my attention so I called the sherwin williams paint guy and asked about if this exact stuff would work for the viv set up, (yeah I went into all the details about the silicone and peat and live animals, the guy probably hated me, but was very friendly) he said it would do the exact same thing. Here it is...
> 
> View attachment 18129
> 
> 
> Also with the evaporation thing I had two independent paint guys (one automotive the other home) and they both said it totally evaporates. I then even asked the third guy about 100% evaporation of the new found stuff and he said yeah thats what they do. So I dont know how it works but I trust em.
> 
> Sorry if you got the xylene, bum wrap, but I just plan on returning it cause I got lucky and hadnt opened it yet.


I tried turpentine, after reading your post, and I must admit I've had a VERY bad experience... the smell never go away so I STRONGLY advice against it. I would NEVER put that in a tank.
The thing been outside for several days, and the smell is still way too strong.


Steve, can we have an updated pics of the tank? Nice tads! Hope they make it naturally!


----------



## froggies3

we need an fts i have not seen the viv in a while sure it looks great


----------



## Steve88W

Here's the FTS but the phone's camera doesn't do the tank justice...








There is dry leaf litter towards the front and soggy, decaying leaf litter in the back under the drip wall.

The shadows are hiding the little cave area that the 'roots' form in the back left corner.

The female will actually sit in the food pod and wait for me each morning....
I can't be mad... she's been giving me a constant flow of good eggs.


----------



## eos

Very nice build and the end result looks great!


----------



## KarmaPolice

Beautiful tank, any updates on this tank, inhabitants, or just plain old plants filling in and making it look better.


----------



## Hlabov

Wonderful work !


----------



## Steve88W

Here's an updated FTS









Everything held up really well, I'm just not very good with the whole plant thing. My plants all lived (except one brom) but I'm constantly amazed at how some member's tanks look so amazing with their plant layouts.


----------

