# To many supplements?



## winyfrog (May 30, 2009)

Just browsing and reading through posts over the past few months, and it seems that most of you don't put calcium and vitamins on your flies daily.

I have been putting both cal and vits on my flies daily (everytime I feed) Should I be concerned about over supplementing?


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I alternate my supplements.
One day calcium-the next day vitamins.
Once in awhile I`ll skip a day.
Why? Because I wouldn`t want that crap on my food every day.

John


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## Leuc_Skywalker (Sep 5, 2009)

I dust my feedings every day with both. I am curious to read what poeple who are more senior in this hoby say to this question.


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## Dragonfly (Dec 5, 2007)

I always dust.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I dust every feeding. Some mixing of supps. Some naturose mixed in.

The more variation - different brands the better chance the frogs get all that they need.

I currently alternate and/or mix Herptivite, Dendrocare and Nekkton Rep ($$$). Gotta love a good German vitamin though, for quality. I will pick up some Rapashy here sometime soon and add that to the schedule.

I would MUCH rather risk over supplementation that UNDER, any day....


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## Leuc_Skywalker (Sep 5, 2009)

I would MUCH rather risk over supplementation that UNDER, any day....


This has been my thought process. It only takes a few minutes to do this step and I think I'd have a fit if I saw my frogs having seizures because I didn't take the time to nourish them correctly. I just wanted to make sure that too much could cause other problems as well.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> I would MUCH rather risk over supplementation that UNDER, any day....


I don't know about that... the results of oversupplementation often end with death depending on the item oversupplemented... for example, overdosage of D3 can cause liver failure for which the symptom is fluid retention.. or calcification of soft tissues.. over supplementation with calcium causes conditional deficiencies of zinc and other micronutrients which causes immune suppression resulting in infections.. 

To me they are equally bad risks... the difference is that the signs of one may be poorly recognized...

Ed


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

I use rep cal, herptivite, dendrocare, spirulina, repashy icb+calcium, repashy super pig, vit. A and sometimes chlorella. I dust every feeding, alternating supplements (often 2 or 3 at a time). I typically only feed every 3 days or so, except for young frogs and my big pigs like the sips and the bi-color.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Philsuma said:


> I would MUCH rather risk over supplementation that UNDER, any day....


That is risky to say. Over supplementation can be just as deadly as under. Things like calcium can be very hard on organs (ever have a kidney stone?). I don't have an answer to the "right" amount but I would not say more is better.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

oh, I knew my post would attract Ed....

The point is....we have NO Idea what the proper dosage and amounts are,so we are left with only 2 options. To dust or not to dust.

I dust.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The recommendations that are in the literature (Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry) give some guidelines based on frequency of feedings. If the animals are fed more than three times a week, supplements containing fat soluble vitamins (D3, A, E) should be fed every other feeding. If the animals are fed three times a week or less then the supplement containing the fat soluble vitamins should be fed at every feeding. 
Calcium carbonate, carotenoids or other suppment type can be used as the supplement for the non-vitamin containing feedings. 

There is discussion in the literature that supplements are mainly designed for crickets and that fruit flies and potentially other equivalently sized feeders retain excess supplements. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> oh, I knew my post would attract Ed....
> 
> The point is....we have NO Idea what the proper dosage and amounts are,so we are left with only 2 options. To dust or not to dust.
> 
> I dust.


I don't think that is correct either.. 

We know that nutritional needs with respect to vitamins and mineral are heavily conserved between taxa and respond very well to the levels previously determined for other animals. The dosages are based on those and those are the doses and thus amounts that they need. 

The problem is that we are dusting which is inexact, however we do know the following 
1) anurans are programmed to feed whenever food is available to satiation as in the wild periods of abundance for feeders are not consistent. 
2) anurans in captivity are often obese due to overfeeding (see other threads where caloric needs were figured out) 
3) fruit flies and probably other small feeders retain significantly more supplement due to smaller size

When these three factors are combined, we are looking at over supplementing of those nutrients... 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

and then there's always this...

New hobbyists and lazy people are going to read some DB post like this and say..

woah....I really don't need to dust.....much...or....at all......


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

^^^Agreed

We dust daily.

A rotation of Rep-Cal Vits, Rep-Cal calcium with D3, Pure Calcium. Repashy ICB, Repashy Superpig.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

So is there a right or wrong answer to this question?
I don`t think there is.
Like I stated earlier I alternate my calcium and vitamins daily, skipping a day once in awhile and once a week Repashy Super Pig for my Leucs.
I`ve been doing this for nearly 5 yrs. with no problems.

John


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> and then there's always this...
> 
> New hobbyists and lazy people are going to read some DB post like this and say..
> 
> woah....I really don't need to dust.....much...or....at all......


The recommendations that are in the literature (Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry) give some guidelines based on frequency of feedings. If the animals are fed more than three times a week, supplements containing fat soluble vitamins (D3, A, E) should be fed every other feeding. If the animals are fed three times a week or less then the supplement containing the fat soluble vitamins should be fed at every feeding. 
Calcium carbonate, carotenoids or other suppment type can be used as the supplement for the non-vitamin containing feedings. 

There is discussion in the literature that supplements are mainly designed for crickets and that fruit flies and potentially other equivalently sized feeders retain excess supplements.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

I think Ed just quoted himself ha-ha. Next time we need you to cite yourself, Ed


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## winyfrog (May 30, 2009)

So if I understand correctly,

- continue to dust every feeding
- you should dust with a variety of brands and types of vitamins
- if I skip a day it should be okay


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Ok Ed,
Sounds like I am not the only one confused here. I feed every other day amount of flys depending on frogs (juvies I feed every day unless flys left). 
I rotate the rep cal calcium with vit d mixed with the herptivite on one feeding then on the other the Repashy calcium plus ICB mixed with supermin on the other feedings, every other week or so I dust with the superpig. 
I dust every feeding.
What do you supplement with and how often for your frogs? 
-Beth


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

winyfrog said:


> So if I understand correctly,
> 
> - continue to dust every feeding
> - you should dust with a variety of brands and types of vitamins
> - if I skip a day it should be okay


 
That's what I would reccommend.


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## winyfrog (May 30, 2009)

So now I just need to buy more supplements ....  

thanks to you all.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Bcs TX said:


> Ok Ed,
> Sounds like I am not the only one confused here. I feed every other day amount of flys depending on frogs (juvies I feed every day unless flys left).
> I rotate the rep cal calcium with vit d mixed with the herptivite on one feeding then on the other the Repashy calcium plus ICB mixed with supermin on the other feedings, every other week or so I dust with the superpig.
> I dust every feeding.
> ...


At home the current tweaking on the supplement rotation depends on the cage and the fauna.. but for adults, I'm feeding once to twice a week. Metamorphs are every other day right now but if I get better microfauna established may be less.. 

The rotation is like this, rep-cal with D3 one feeding, Repashy ICP the next feeding, herptivite the third time, dendrocare for the fourth, and every two-three weels a dry vitamin A supplement on the flies. I am going to dry the Dendrocare and replace it with Repashy. 

Ed


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Consider the type of food you are dusting and the size of the tank. 
If you feed high-protein, fatty foods (like silkworms), you don't dust each feeding. However, fruit flies more often than not need dusting to raise their nutrition level. 
If you are keeping your frogs in a 10 gallon tank where they would be able to catch a large number of flies immediately after feeding, don't dust multivitamins at each feeding---do every other feeding. 
However, if there are only a few thumbnails in a 40 or 50 gallon tank, dust every feeding. 
You have to think about a number of factors here...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

earthfrog said:


> Consider the type of food you are dusting and the size of the tank.
> If you feed high-protein, fatty foods (like silkworms), you don't dust each feeding. However, fruit flies more often than not need dusting to raise their nutrition level.
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Ed said:


> earthfrog said:
> 
> 
> > Consider the type of food you are dusting and the size of the tank.
> ...


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