# 10g Vert semi-n00b viv *pic heavy*



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey everyone. I'm Brandon (for those who don't know )
It's about time I finally start a real tank...
The one I have on her before was just practice and I've learned a lot from it.
I'm sorta being forced to build this tank tho....
My ex is being crazy and I'm having to sell everything I own move away back to Bristol.
Might as well build this while I have a chance cause who know when I'll have another.
I've been saving up supplies here and there.
I'm going to having someone babysit my viv for a month or so and I'm coming back to get it. I hope to find a job quick and get some PDFs. Please feel free to suggest some for this tank.
Hopefully I'll get to meet Zoomie/John and gain more knowledge on PDFs since he lives in the area I'll be moving to

Ok so this tank is mostly inspired by Grimm and james67
I'm going to be doing a duct system and hanging vines based upon Grimm's http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/65988-peninsula.html
Then the vines coming off of the bacground of james67's http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/71971-29-rebuild-teaser.html
Also inspired by each and everyone of you who contribute your threads for us.
This tank wouldn't be possible without all that you've all taught me.

Ok now for some pics of what's going on so far....

Here is the tank....missing the top peice of glass(door)  gonna get it soon.








As you can see I painted the bottom to cover the false bottom and give it a sleek look

Side view









Here is the false bottom...I did a pedestal type of thing and let the edges overhang. That way it can be removed easily and have a tight fit and also it's just so much easier to attach my screen. Plus it's super sturdy so no sense in a support in the middle. The screen btw is bug proof window screen and is pretty much like combining weed block and window screen. Each hole is maybe the width if a sewing needle.









I made my light fixture myself. It was a regular 10long fixture but it had incandesant sockets  I was happy to find this at the local petstore for $5. I cut it down to fit the top of the tank then I expoxied the sides back on. I will be installing a fan on top...(diagram below)

























Here is the bulbs I bought....hopefully it will be enough...








Lights on...








Do you think they'll be enough?

For my night light I have an blue LED strip that I got on a trade for my Atari 2600








LEDs on....








Yeah I know they are a bit bright lol.

Ok now I'll show you exatly what I was talking about with Grimm and James' vivs
Here is the hanging vine design by Grimm...http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/65988-peninsula-20.html#post592846








I would find his duct work vid but it took me too long to find that pic haha
I won't be doing the bolt idea and drilling the glass.....istead I will be epoxy gluing it to the top of the tank then sealing it with silicone.









Here is the vine work inspired by james67.....http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/71971-29-rebuild-teaser-2.html#post633793

















As for plants I don't have such an awesome selction as most of you cause I don't have time to order any but I will be updating them in the future.
This is my 29g green house that is lit by a PC fixture and has a fan inside.








Here are the plants I have...









Ok so here is some rough sketches of what I plan on doing....








The fans are 1 9/16" and I'll have 2 of them hooked up to a power adapter with adjustable voltages so I can runs the fans slower if needed..

I wonder tho....should I put the fan on the light fixture sucking air up or should I have the fan blowing into the fixture?

Also with the air system which do you think I should do....have the air going into to the top and out the bottom or into the bottom and out the top?

Thanks for reading and checking out my thread. I hope to have it all done soon 
I hope to add a Mist King starter system to it once I get enough money and get better plants like I said...

Now time for a nap and then to go get the adapter and fans.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Your planning on putting the fan in the light fixture? If so i dont think that would be good for the light fixture with all the humidity.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

shibbyplustax said:


> Your planning on putting the fan in the light fixture? If so i dont think that would be good for the light fixture with all the humidity.


The humidity will all be in the tank. The fixture is on top of the tank on the glass.
I don't think humidity can go through glass 
The fan on the fixture is to keep the lights cool.
I don't know wether to have it sucking air out of the fixture or bloing into the fixture..
What do you think?


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Very nice do it yourself work on the light! You are much handier than I am!!!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

So here is some gadgets I bought today....
AC/DC power supply with volt control $15 Lowes
2 1 9/16" fans $12.99 Radio Shack
2prong adapter $4(gonna take it back...only got it to test the unit. Gonna splice straight into power supply)
Probably gonna be taking the one fan back and get a cheapo fan and have it resting on blowing on it constantly and the timer will shut it and the light off.
Eventually I'll get around to getting another fan and putting it on the light.
I know I'm gonna go do this survey then get a $10 coupon and I'm returning the one fan and then buying it with the $10 coupon and I'll be getting the fan for $3 
Oh nvm....it's for a $40 dollar or more purchase...
I guess what I could do is buy $40 worth of stuff and then use the coupon and take it all back except for the fan. Hahaha

Here is the fan and stuff








Here is the specs on the fans for you geeks out there...









Now back to my air duct system I'm scemeing up...
Here is a rough preview but I'm about to change it. I was to be able to still access the fan in case it burns out...Any ideas on how to make it still accessable?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thanks for the "props" on my build 

its going to be hard to make your fan accessible in a system like that w/o some serious work.

honestly id ditch the tubing in a tank that size and go for the fan simply mounted to the glass with some fine mesh covering it.

if your intent on hiding in like this with the tubing (also realize that the amount of air the fan pushes is GREATLY reduced when the air is forced to turn corners or even pass through screen) you'll want to have the fan at one of the ends of the tube (its just logical to have it there) you could glue a 90 to one side of the fan, and a reducer to the other (with the smaller side of the reducer on the fan). the reducer would be able to slide on or off the other tubing, providing enough height is available.

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> thanks for the "props" on my build
> 
> its going to be hard to make your fan accessible in a system like that w/o some serious work.
> 
> ...


You're welcome man...
I have cut that whole thing down a lot lol
I'm thinking about just having a box in the top and the fan itself is gonna be like a catride and I can slide it out lol.
I'm just messing around with it right now.
I'm gonna have a tube connected to it going towards the floor to rotate some of the stagnant air off the bottom...
I tested it and its not even air tight and it's blowing a sucking well.
I put the end of the tube to my face and I can feel the air rushing into the tube.
But yeah the more I think about the cartridge idea the more I think it will work and it shouldn't be all that hard really...
Here is where I am so far....I'm about to make a cut where the line is.
The elbow will be pointing over the plants.









I think I'm gonna go back tomorrow and get a bigger fan....yup I think I will.
I'm still gonna mess with this one for the night and make a prototype


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey everyone....
So I've been screwing around with this thing and I've made a prototype of a air system I'm going to use.
It's inspired by Grimm's air duct on his http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/65988-peninsula.html
But with a few changes and only one fan.
The fan can easily be removed and replaced if needed.
I'm gonna get a bigger fan and make this a bit bigger.
Pretty much the idea is for good circulation....
Well here it is...I know its ugly but it will look a lot better.

























I know you're probably asking how can I keep it sealed and whatnot.
Well with chloraplast you have those square cells and I'm going to have pegs that will slide into the cells and have a snug fit and between the front panel and the fan box I will have a bead of silicone going all the way around....gonna make a gasket pretty much.
Yeah I could just silicone the fan to the glass but I want it completely hidden and easy to replace


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

if it were me, i'd take the pieces you have and use them as a template for some acrylic (plexiglass).

you can probably even have it laser cut for under $15 in town, you'll just have to call around. gluing the pieces together is pretty simple, and creating a file is so easy anyone can do it. usually the lasers read illustrator files and you can even download a trial version of that for free.

i would worry about duct tape in the viv. the adhesive seems to be pretty water soluble and i would worry about some of the stuff in it particularly because of its strong odor.

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> if it were me, i'd take the pieces you have and use them as a template for some acrylic (plexiglass).
> 
> you can probably even have it laser cut for under $15 in town, you'll just have to call around. gluing the pieces together is pretty simple, and creating a file is so easy anyone can do it. usually the lasers read illustrator files and you can even download a trial version of that for free.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna be spraying GS and also gonna be covering the front panel in silicone and eco earth. 
I'm most likely not gonna use duct tape for the final system, if I do it will be just to hold while I use hot glue.
Chloraplast and duct tape is the same materials Grimm used on his duct system.
The chloraplast will give and work with me but the acrylic won't and I can get duct tape and chloraplast next to nothing lol.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

the light fixture is way too small, and to close to the bulbs, IMO that's why the heat is staying trapped in such a tight space. do one of two things if not both, raise the fixture and have a fan/fans blowing across it and that should resolve the issue.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Quick update...
Waiting on my mopani to get in.
Been working on my vines.
Got one constructed...about to silicone and peat moss it.









Using an old coffee grinder me ex's dad left behind and yes I took it apart and cleaned it very well....makes that peat real fine.









Also scored some free pots at Lowes.
They have a recycle rack that people drop off pots they don't use.
So I got a few of them...I'm gonna sanatize them well.
They are pretty small too.









Got a new fan....gonna be testing it out.
Is the idea to circulate the air or to just have moving air in the tank?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> the light fixture is way too small, and to close to the bulbs, IMO that's why the heat is staying trapped in such a tight space. do one of two things if not both, raise the fixture and have a fan/fans blowing across it and that should resolve the issue.


Yeah that's what I'm doing.
I might just make a different one tho...


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

An air circulation system in a 10 gallon? A little overkill, but ok! lol. Can't wait to see this done.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> An air circulation system in a 10 gallon? A little overkill, but ok! lol. Can't wait to see this done.


Nah not overkill 
It's thoughtful
I'm scraping that system due to the fan not being powerful enough.
I have a new fan but I'm worried it might be too strong...
I want to have some sort of air movement in the tank so the plants and frogs will thrive better.
I'm gonna try one more thing then if that doesn't work I'm sticking the fan in the corner and saying to hell with it :/


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

So the mopani wood I was getting was crappy...it was heart shaped and it was really awkward...
So I got....grapewood 
Ii know it molds but I'm sure the mold will go away.
I'm setting this tank up and letting it sit for a while until I get on my feet and by some PDFs.
The mold will go away right?
I know I had mold issues on my grapewood I'm my green tree frog tank but it went away.
Plus the fan cirulating the air you stop mold growth right?


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Most of the mold will go away a few weeks after it shows up (generally shows up in the second week, gone by the fifth). I use a bunch of grapevine because I like the way it looks (hate the two-toneness of mopani) and its cheap. Be aware that it will rot especially if it remains waterlogged. Also, if you feed termites to your darts (when you get them that is) know that the termites will feel right at home in the grapevine.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Most of the mold will go away a few weeks after it shows up (generally shows up in the second week, gone by the fifth). I use a bunch of grapevine because I like the way it looks (hate the two-toneness of mopani) and its cheap. Be aware that it will rot especially if it remains waterlogged. Also, if you feed termites to your darts (when you get them that is) know that the termites will feel right at home in the grapevine.


So springtails are termites ????
Thanks for helping me with that fieldnstream.
I've noticed I'm getting a lot of thread views but not many have replied and tried to help :/


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> So springtails are termites ????
> Thanks for helping me with that fieldnstream.
> I've noticed I'm getting a lot of thread views but not many have replied and tried to help :/


Springs are not termites (though they look kinda similar)...pretty sure springs are not even insects...something about mouthpart structure. I was feeding termites to some Phrynomantis bifasciatus and some escaped being eaten and made a nice little colony. Was kinda worried about them getting out of the viv at first, but it turned out ok because it became an in-tank food supply for the frogs.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Springs are not termites (though they look kinda similar)...pretty sure springs are not even insects...something about mouthpart structure. I was feeding termites to some Phrynomantis bifasciatus and some escaped being eaten and made a nice little colony. Was kinda worried about them getting out of the viv at first, but it turned out ok because it became an in-tank food supply for the frogs.


Meh I'd rather not have termites eating my wood


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Finally decided to use the fan...
Made a decent air system from what I've had laying around...
Gotta get a longer tube tho...only like 50¢ at Lowes.









I have my vine siliconed and peated...
I'm curious how long I have to wait before sucking it off with my shop vac or brush the excess peat off.
I'm gonna do the bacground in eco earth.

For the sustrate I'm using peat moss, eco earth(as a filler), sphagnum moss, charcoal, andorchid bark until I get some ABG mix.
I'm not gonna worry about getting ABG until I have the tank with me again and get more money. I don't want the plants growing on me that fast


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

And another update...
Was throwing some plants in there to see where I wanted them and to see where I needed to put some pots for some bromeliads and tillandsias.
This is pretty much where they will be placed...









Here is a shot with the light off and the glow from the fan LEDs









Gonna have the cocohut in the back(in brown) and some nice broms(green circle)








Yeah my cocohut drawing ain't too smooth haha...but It's pretty good for using a phone


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i love the hanging vine!!
Looks great!! Its on my to-do list for my next viv!!
Keep the pictures coming!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Here's a plant list....

Hemigraphis alternata "Purple Waffle"









Syngonium podophyllum "Arrowhead"









Cryptanthus otto "Starlight"









Ficus pumilia "Creeping Fig"









This is a Cryptanthus I'm not sure the exact name but I think it's called Pink Star









Some sort of Fittonia....it's not loooking to well tho haha









This is a type of sword bromeliad...I'm putting it at an angle in the left corner so as it grows it will grow towards the front at an angle...I'm gonna keep it in a very small pot and hopefully it won't get too big...








It will eventually look like this....









Still got some moss to come...
I'm gonna get better plants in the future.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

guess i missed it, what are you putting on the rope before applying the peat mulch or whatever it's called.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> guess i missed it, what are you putting on the rope before applying the peat mulch or whatever it's called.


Black silicone.
Put on a glove and spread the silicone the add the peat moss.
It's messy and I'd suggest squeezing some out in a pile on something so you don't have to keep using your gun....
I'm using this....Walamart use to carry it but I haven't seen it there anymore.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

thanks for the reply.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> thanks for the reply.


No problem.
Lowe's has a huge hay bale size bag of peat for $10
It's heavy lol especially since they have it sitting outside.
You can't use any of the miracle gro stuff or any peat moss that has fertilizers.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

Dragon, not sure how I missed this. Incredible job thus far. I really like the design and layout.

Can't wait to see it finished. Rock On !


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Zoomie said:


> Dragon, not sure how I missed this. Incredible job thus far. I really like the design and layout.
> 
> Can't wait to see it finished. Rock On !


Thanks John...
You might be able to see it in person.
I'm having to move back up there...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Touch and foam is craptastic......although the resealabe sprayer is worth buying the can for.
I've been using the same can of GS for well longer than the cure times...

With GS when you cut into it it's spongey....Touch N Foam is harder...quite a bit harder.
Plus it doesn't set right if you apply a good abount...its also very pourus. When you cut into it there is huge bubles and you have to fill them in.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Brandon, I noticed with my great stuff when i forgot to shake the can, it was much firmer and less spongey. I liked that better, in terms of ability to carve. Does the craptastic touch-n-foam feel like that?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> Brandon, I noticed with my great stuff when i forgot to shake the can, it was much firmer and less spongey. I liked that better, in terms of ability to carve. Does the craptastic touch-n-foam feel like that?


I shaked the can a good bit.
It's real brittle and whatnot.
Taking forever to cure...
Only good thing about it is that you can push it in a bit instead of carving in small areas


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Quick update/sneak peek


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey everyone
my tank is finally finished 
except for the leaf litter in the film canisters for eggs (I'll make those in the future) 
I'm only gonna get to enjoy this for maybe one night tho....power is getting shut of tomorrow maybe  
I got a family member to come take the tank for me and mist it daily.
Hopefully I can get one of them to give me a place to stay but the ex kinda pushed my family away from me :/
I tell ya....women will really drive you into the ground :|
I know you're probably thinking, why didn't you use this money to pay the bill....well I actually have been saving all this stuff for some time and I had money on gift cards.
I maybe speant $4 out of pocket for the glass cause my Lowes card got used up.

I had a few hiccups going along... I made top side pieces, wings I guess you could call them, didn't work they blocked out half a light so I wound up cutting and tearing them out and scraping off all the silicone.
also didn't get to do Grimm's and James67's ideas because my fine work was pretty crappy I think I processed to peat moss too much. I shoulda made it more course.

so here you go.....I think it turned out pretty well for my first PDF tank
I hope you all like it.......cause I know I sure do 


















































Here is my leaf litter....I'm gonna boil it soon. Great thing about living in GA is that there is Magnolia trees everywhere....I have a huge one in my front yard. It sure is hard to find small leaves tho :/ and no I don't use any kind of pesticides or anything in my yard.










Here is what I did with my false bottom....I attached a stainless steel wire to it so I can pull it up.










Please tell me what you think and suggest some frogs for me 
I deffinently want some climbers


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

curious with that screen at the top, i would be leary of the temp and humidity being stable unless i am looking at it wrong?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> curious with that screen at the top, i would be leary of the temp and humidity being stable unless i am looking at it wrong?


That screen is bug screen and has very tiny holes.
I know fruit flies can't get through them cause I breed crickets and the hatching boxes I use have this screen and I have had a problem with fruit flies laying their eggs in with my cricket eggs and when the fruit flies hatch they can't get out.
If I have to I will put tape or something over the vent.
So it should hold humidity better than regular screen.
The glass is staying pretty fogged so the humidity id holding.
I don't have a hydrometer yet but when I get one I'll know what to do.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

curious as well, post when you find out.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Quick update...
> Waiting on my mopani to get in.
> Been working on my vines.
> Got one constructed...about to silicone and peat moss it.
> ...


I think coffee is viv safe, kind of a hijack, but you can grow coffee plants and i've heard they're viv safe. Never tried it though, but better safe than sorry.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> curious as well, post when you find out.


I have a cheapo hydrometer in there. I know it's not gonna give me the best reading but it is reading like 90%


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> I think coffee is viv safe, kind of a hijack, but you can grow coffee plants and i've heard they're viv safe. Never tried it though, but better safe than sorry.


Lol cool.
I don't like the smell of coffee tho haha.
I hate coffee :/


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I have a cheapo hydrometer in there. I know it's not gonna give me the best reading but it is reading like 90%


hyGrometer 

hydrometer = 









james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

No one has told me how it looks yet 
Comments people!!! 
And please rate my thread...I'll return the favor on your threads.

I put some leaf litter in the tank.
I boiled, nuked, and baked them.









Pic through the glass...










I'm thinking I'm gonna get a pair of Imitators for this viv.
Hopefully I can get a male and a female.
Can you request a male and female or do you just have to take your chances?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> hyGrometer
> 
> hydrometer =
> 
> ...


Lol what's this suppose to mean 
Am I not using the right word or are those the hydrometers I should be using to see the humidity levels?


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> No one has told me how it looks yet
> Comments people!!!
> And please rate my thread...I'll return the favor on your threads.
> 
> ...


It's a great tank, and also all the space is usable. The moss is like the leaf litter, makes frogs more bold from what i've seen. It's a little "fake" looking though, thats why I only rated it 4 starts. I think w/o the moss, it'll be less fake looking, even though it's real.
One more thing. A Hygrometer is for humidity and a hyDrometer is for measuring the salinity in a salt water aquarium.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> It's a great tank, and also all the space is usable. The moss is like the leaf litter, makes frogs more bold from what i've seen. It's a little "fake" looking though, thats why I only rated it 4 starts. I think w/o the moss, it'll be less fake looking, even though it's real.
> One more thing. A Hygrometer is for humidity and a hyDrometer is for measuring the salinity in a salt water aquarium.


Thanks for the comments and the rating.
It would be better once I get better plants and maybe a small orchid.
I just wanted to get it built cause I was afraid I was about to loose my chance to build it.

That is weird...you would figure it would be called a hydrometer....
Thanks for letting me know


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## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

i think it looks great the way it is! I don't think the moss makes it look fake at all! I love the mossy floor. Did you decide not to put the vine in that you made??


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

myersboy6 said:


> i think it looks great the way it is! I don't think the moss makes it look fake at all! I love the mossy floor. Did you decide not to put the vine in that you made??


The vine I made was pretty crappy.
I think I prossesed the peat moss too much and made it too fine.
It looks like a piece of rope covered in silicone then just dusted with brown dust haha
Idk if I can just re coat it with silicone and do it again or if the silicone would adhere to the peat moss.


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## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

yeah you can always re-due it. just use less peat. I think it would be cool if you attached some moss to it also. i think things like that look better over time also.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Idk if I can just re coat it with silicone and do it again or if the silicone would adhere to the peat moss.


 
one way to find out


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> one way to find out


I think I will lol. Only if this calm down here.
If my power gets cut off and I have to go somewhere else or get someone to house my tank amongst my other animals then I don't wanna be transporting it with that vine swinging around lol

I wish I could find a local that has a good plant assortment they wanna sell cheap.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

The humidity seems to be doing pretty well it seems.
I misted the tank at like 10am and it's still like this...

























Temp....










My moss has lost it's color a bit....is this normal?


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> My moss has lost it's color a bit....is this normal?


Is it wild collected? It looks like a type of moss growing in my backyard. Turned yellow when I put it in a ziploc.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> Is it wild collected? It looks like a type of moss growing in my backyard. Turned yellow when I put it in a ziploc.


Nah it isn't wild.....









That's wht I have...
Bought it at Petsmart....it is a dormant moss that comes back to life in your viv.
Maybe it is coming back to life and it gonna get green again.

Andy/WONTON SALLY used the same stuff....I know he could help


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Nah it isn't wild.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then it's dried moss. You'll be a lucky person if it lives/grows again. They sell this dried stuff and it almost never comes back. This is basically the same stuff, just a different brand.

*Discontinued @ NEHERP
This section will be removed shortly.*

Nature Zone's moss is air dried, which renders it dormant with out killing it and packaged in a protective reusable plastic tray. All three types are harvested in sheets which when rehydrated, resume the original shape and suppleness. It assists in providing the proper substrate for sensitive amphibians and reptiles. 
Container dimensions: 9" x 5" x 2"

*NEHERP Note: The above description wasn't written by us! Getting this stuff to reanimate has proven to be very difficult!!! 
We recommend our NEHERP live moss (top of this page) if you are looking for a true live moss! *


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i think it looks terrific and I'm sad about your vine - I liked your vine. Whats the plant in the right front hand corner thats purple on the bottom. I like purple!!!

The moss is great.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> Then it's dried moss. You'll be a lucky person if it lives/grows again. They sell this dried stuff and it almost never comes back. This is basically the same stuff, just a different brand.
> 
> *Discontinued @ NEHERP
> This section will be removed shortly.*
> ...


If it dies I'll take it back to Petsmart.
I plan on getting better moss eventually 
Right now I'm just experimenting...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> i think it looks terrific and I'm sad about your vine - I liked your vine. Whats the plant in the right front hand corner thats purple on the bottom. I like purple!!!
> 
> The moss is great.


Hemigraphis alternata aka Purple Waffle
They have it at Lowes...


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> If it dies I'll take it back to Petsmart.
> I plan on getting better moss eventually
> Right now I'm just experimenting...


Well if it starts to turn green again, tell me


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> Well if it starts to turn green again, tell me


Will do man.
Hopefully it is just coming back to life....and going through a process
I know if I was brought back to life and reanimated then I wouldn't look to healthy for the first little bit lol


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

not likely. if you want live moss. get live moss. 

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

One of the reasons I don't wanna add broms right now is cause I don't want the ficus choking out the broms...
I'm gonna let the ficus grow in a bit then pin some neos to the background and I can use the ficus to hide the spaghnum a bit and whatnot.
I'm gonna stay on top of the ficus and make sure it doesn't take ove too much.
If it gets higher I'll cut the ends off.....if it trying to shoot branches I'm gonna cut them too.

A lot of people hate ficus cause it takes over but I believe if you keep it under control you'll be fine.


I'm gonna add some live moss but honestly I don't like a lot of the moss I've seen on some of these sites. 
The moss is too high...like the spike moss and whatnot.
I want short moss like what I have.
Josh's Frogs sells the same dormant moss and they say if you do it right it will come back.

Anyone know of a good live mos that will stay short or has small strands and not a moss that has what looks like branches coming off? 
I don't want it to look like weat lols like how sikemoss looks...
I hope you get what I mean lol


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## JakkBauer (Jul 11, 2011)

This is my favorite Moss...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

JakkBauer said:


> This is my favorite Moss...


lol
Please stay on topic?
Not that kind of Moss


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Nah it isn't wild.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
mine came back to life, mostly on my cork tile background and in the rear bottom corners of the tank, but out in the open not so much.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> mine came back to life, mostly on my cork tile background and in the rear bottom corners of the tank, but out in the open not so much.


That's weird cause mine is doing best in the open lol.
The ones on the sides are worse...


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

I think riccia stays small, but you might wanna ask Grimm. From seeing his twins, it looks like his java got a little high, but I think he's tried riccia. I've also seen NEHerps moss grow as more of a ground cover, a little bit more bushy than what you have now. But I wouldn't want to pay 6$ for a 5x6 slab. Java spreads, fast.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> I think riccia stays small, but you might wanna ask Grimm. From seeing his twins, it looks like his java got a little high, but I think he's tried riccia. I've also seen NEHerps moss grow as more of a ground cover, a little bit more bushy than what you have now. But I wouldn't want to pay 6$ for a 5x6 slab. Java spreads, fast.


Maybe I have temperate moss instead of tropical moss
I think that's the proper term

I wish I could find somone selling moss like mine yet still alive...


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Maybe I have temperate moss instead of tropical moss
> I think that's the proper term
> 
> I wish I could find somone selling moss like mine yet still alive...


You could kindly help James out  He's selling moss just like that but it's live.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> You could kindly help James out  He's selling moss just like that but it's live.


James67?

I don't have a bank account and whatnot so how could I buy it from him :/
I haven't ordered anything offline cause of that.
I owe fines in Virginia and when I lived there they sent me letters saying they was going after my account so I withdrew all my money and I haven't had a bank account since lol


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> James67?
> 
> I don't have a bank account and whatnot so how could I buy it from him :/
> I haven't ordered anything offline cause of that.
> I owe fines in Virginia and when I lived there they sent me letters saying they was going after my account so I withdrew all my money and I haven't had a bank account since lol


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/72270-moss.html

He lives in GA too, you two could meet up. Hell, you might even get a local discount.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

Neontra said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/72270-moss.html
> 
> He lives in GA too, you two could meet up. Hell, you might even get a local discount.


send him a money order, just as good as cash.


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## JakkBauer (Jul 11, 2011)

Neontra said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/72270-moss.html
> 
> He lives in GA too, you two could meet up. Hell, you might even get a local discount.


Not to sound like a stalker but James lives in Savannah and Dragon lives waaay north of that closer to Atlanta so its not like they can just meet up, it would be basically taking a trip to Florida. 

Send him a money order!!

JACK BAUER IS WATCHING


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/72270-moss.html
> 
> He lives in GA too, you two could meet up. Hell, you might even get a local discount.


He lives 4 ½ hours away lol


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Just looked at the link and I can't afford it :/
I've seen moss a lot cheaper.
It's gonna have to wait right now.
Plus it's a bit dark and seems more forest looking.
I would use it for my green tree frog tank but not my PDF tank.
Not dissin his moss lol it looks good but it doesn't appeal to me unless I was getting it for a forest native herp


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Well sorry then,  I thought GA was one of those little tiny states in the east, lol
PS Aren't darts from forests? lol.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> Well sorry then,  I thought GA was one of those little tiny states in the east, lol
> PS Aren't darts from forests? lol.


Darts are jungle animals I thought?
Yeah reainforest but not our type of forest here in the states lol 
Georgia is pretty big....one of the biggest states on the east coast


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Just looked at the link and I can't afford it :/
> I've seen moss a lot cheaper.
> It's gonna have to wait right now.
> Plus it's a bit dark and seems more forest looking.
> ...


i dont take kindly to people dissin my moss! jk 

also, just a note, there are dark spots because the moss is no longer in a sheet. it was thoroughly cleaned and disinfected using Co2. and to get it cleaned and disinfected, the sheets needed to be broken up. so you have a green side of the moss and a brown (older growth) side, which are now mixed. when it grows back together, it looks like this:









anyway, im not the only source, and most if not all of us are happy to accept many different forms of payment. ive even worked out payment plans w/ people or sent things ahead of payment in some circumstances.

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> i dont take kindly to people dissin my moss! jk
> 
> also, just a note, there are dark spots because the moss is no longer in a sheet. it was thoroughly cleaned and disinfected using Co2. and to get it cleaned and disinfected, the sheets needed to be broken up. so you have a green side of the moss and a brown (older growth) side, which are now mixed. when it grows back together, it looks like this:
> 
> ...


it looks to native to our area instead of what you might see in a PDF tank.
Doesn't have that tropical feel to it.
No offence or anything.
Where was this moss gathered?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

and no offense but, unlike the moss your trying to use (a temperate moss) this comes from a coastal subtropical area. and mosses from SA would be tropical (and nearly impossible to come across in the US). but thats besides the point.

if your going for a natural look, you wouldnt use moss anyway because it just doesnt exist like that in PDF habitats. 

youd need 6 inches of leaf litter and perhaps a single plant to create a really convincing PDF habitat.

heres a good example of a tinc habitat:










and leucs:









and auratus:









james


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

james67 said:


> and no offense but, unlike the moss your trying to use (a temperate moss) this comes from a coastal subtropical area. and mosses from SA would be tropical (and nearly impossible to come across in the US). but thats besides the point.
> 
> if your going for a natural look, you wouldnt use moss anyway because it just doesnt exist like that in PDF habitats.
> 
> ...


I would of laughed if dragon said tushay  James, I see nothing wrong with your moss, but I agree, a natural habitat is mostly leaf litter, with moss growing on wood and leaves.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah I see what you mean James....
I'm thinking about doing away with the moss.
I might pull the moos and just put leaf litter.
The moss isn't doing so well.


Are the thermometer/hygrometer combo devices worth a crap?
There is one made by Flucker's at Petsmart...
I'm curious what I should use to get the best readings.
Besides an IR gun...
Something I could get here around me...


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Yeah I see what you mean James....
> I'm thinking about doing away with the moss.
> I might pull the moos and just put leaf litter.
> The moss isn't doing so well.
> ...


1: Nope.
2: Look below
3: Look on ebay for a HyGrometer. Your temp thing is fine, but I some times use a temp gauge for outside with a separate station for readings.
4: I use an IR gun, not the best for vivs, as they ONLY tell surface temp, and you must take the lid off of the tank to use it.
5: I love harbor freight *cough* *cough*
I never really liked a lot of moss, but some people like Grimm have gotten away with it. Also black jungle and Junglebox have some of their best enclosures just moss and plants (BG of course)


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

leaf litter will be better all around. it gives the frogs security, and provides habitat for microfauna.

and just to echo what neontra said, the flukers hygro-therm units are junk. you'd be better off taking the money you would spend on it and flushing it down the toilet. analog units are cheap, simple and work well IME. 

but, once youve got a couple tanks under your belt, you really wont need to measure humidity. you'll be familiar with what proper humidity looks like and the need for a hygrometer will have disappeared. honestly, i dont even monitor in tank temps any more since i know the general rise from room temps my tanks experience, and can just keep an eye on my room temps

james


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

James, you couldn't of said it better. All of those cheap hygrometers and temp things are just garbage. I like to tell my humidity by looking at the glass (yours looks fine, don't worry!) and seeing if there's condensation. A humid tank will have water on the sides after long periods of time, and will form small water droplets on everything in a few hours. As for temp, my tank I have now is a little around 80f during the day, and 70f during the night. A little high, but if I didn't raise my light, my auratus would be long gone  Verdict: Get a digital probe system.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> leaf litter will be better all around. it gives the frogs security, and provides habitat for microfauna.
> 
> and just to echo what neontra said, the flukers hygro-therm units are junk. you'd be better off taking the money you would spend on it and flushing it down the toilet. analog units are cheap, simple and work well IME.
> 
> ...


I have great experience with keeping humidity right in tanks.
I've had frogs, lizards, and geckos....well I have all those now but I've been doing this since I was like 16.
Somehow I manage to get the humidity levels right with all my tanks.
So I have tanks under my belt  just not PDF tanks >_>....this is my first.
If it is constructed and setup is what is instructed then your humidity levels or temps shouldn't be an issue. Unless you live in a warmer or colder area.
Anyway....I have an old analog hygrometer and I threw it in there just to see what it would read...


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Neontra said:


> James, you couldn't of said it better. All of those cheap hygrometers and temp things are just garbage. I like to tell my humidity by looking at the glass (yours looks fine, don't worry!) and seeing if there's condensation. A humid tank will have water on the sides after long periods of time, and will form small water droplets on everything in a few hours. As for temp, my tank I have now is a little around 80f during the day, and 70f during the night. A little high, but if I didn't raise my light, my auratus would be long gone  Verdict: Get a digital probe system.


condensation doesnt equal good humidity. most tanks form condensation only when the glass is fresh and clean (like in a new tank) and a tank with adequite humidity may not show any signs of condensation on the glass

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> condensation doesnt equal good humidity. most tanks form condensation only when the glass is fresh and clean (like in a new tank) and a tank with adequite humidity may not show any signs of condensation on the glass
> 
> james


I totally agree with that.
Condensation doesn't always tell you.
I've had some tanks that didn't even look moist and they had the proper humidity.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Mold is already beginning to show up :/









How long does it take for it to go away?
Also I've asked this a time or two and even on my other thread about suggestions...
When I go to order my Imitators can I tell them I was a male and female or do I just take my chances and get what I get?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

you take your chances.

many people buy more froglets than they'll need and raise them to a sexable age. a pair can be split off and the rest sold or traded. 

your other option is buying a proven or sexed pair or trio. be sure to communicate with the seller on what your expecting, so that theres no confusion.

james

also, the mold will go away when its ready. anywhere from a week to a year or more.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

the mold can really last a year? i was under the a few months at best?


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm on my third mold growout tank . The 50 is a mess right now. 3 to 4 weeks is average, if you have seeded microfauna i.e. springs and isos. Air movement/venting can help as well but you are right back to fighting the humidity monster. 

For me, it's been less of a problem in tanks with front doors. I suspect this is attributed to better air exchange as larger front doors get opened 2-4 times daily for feeding and misting.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

I just got a little mold too on some of my dead plant leaves and wood, not hideous though. Almost gone too


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> you take your chances.
> 
> many people buy more froglets than they'll need and raise them to a sexable age. a pair can be split off and the rest sold or traded.
> 
> ...


Well if I wind up with two males won't they just fight all the time?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

you will likley run into issues in that case yes. but you can always try to put up an ad for an even trade. remember though that shipping can be $70-$120, so depending on the price of your frogs getting more may be your best bet. 5 nearly ensures you'll have a pair, and you should be able to even make a little extra $ when you sex and sell the others.

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> you will likley run into issues in that case yes. but you can always try to put up an ad for an even trade. remember though that shipping can be $70-$120, so depending on the price of your frogs getting more may be your best bet. 5 nearly ensures you'll have a pair, and you should be able to even make a little extra $ when you sex and sell the others.
> 
> james


Shipping shouldn't be that much at all.
I got an extimate and the shipping would be $53
I know almost all do overnight or exspress shipping instead of ground right?
I will most likely wind up just getting some locally even if I have to drive 2 hours.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

The frogs are gonna be $80 and shipping $53
If anyone can give me a better deal on some imitators then shoot me a PM


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## JakkBauer (Jul 11, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> The frogs are gonna be $80 and shipping $53
> If anyone can give me a better deal on some imitators then shoot me a PM


Dragon, Repticon is next month here in ATL just wait til then? Also you should already know but DRAGON CON is also here this weekend 

Sounds right up your alley.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

JakkBauer said:


> Dragon, Repticon is next month here in ATL just wait til then? Also you should already know but DRAGON CON is also here this weekend
> 
> Sounds right up your alley.


Yeah I'm an Anime fan but DragonCon is way too expensive.
Idk if I'll be around next month for Repticon.
I guess I could order my Frogs from Josh's Frogs and get my sister to pick them up there.
I might be down here then.

Do they usually sell them cheeper at the conventions?


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## JakkBauer (Jul 11, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Yeah I'm an Anime fan but DragonCon is way too expensive.
> Idk if I'll be around next month for Repticon.
> I guess I could order my Frogs from Josh's Frogs and get my sister to pick them up there.
> I might be down here then.
> ...


Yea $120 for the weekend or $50 for one day is kind of ridiculous. I guess its the only paycheck all those washed up sci-fi stars get all year so they have to milk it for all they can. I think I might still go down to check some of the sweet costumes.

Frogs are a little cheaper at the con plus you dont have to pay shipping and you can get tons of supplies we normally cant find in our area for dirt cheap. I think its held on the 11th or 12th of Oct or whatever the weekend near that is.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

JakkBauer said:


> Yea $120 for the weekend or $50 for one day is kind of ridiculous. I guess its the only paycheck all those washed up sci-fi stars get all year so they have to milk it for all they can. I think I might still go down to check some of the sweet costumes.
> 
> Frogs are a little cheaper at the con plus you dont have to pay shipping and you can get tons of supplies we normally cant find in our area for dirt cheap. I think its held on the 11th or 12th of Oct or whatever the weekend near that is.


Yeah there was a convention for Invader Zim not long ago and they was wanting to charge $25 per autograph from each of the voice actors...
Plus there was admission you had to pay.
I wound up not going. Autographs should be free after you pay admission...
The olny thing you should have to pay for is merch and consessions


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## JakkBauer (Jul 11, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Yeah there was a convention for Invader Zim not long ago and they was wanting to charge $25 per autograph from each of the voice actors...
> Plus there was admission you had to pay.
> I wound up not going. Autographs should be free after you pay admission...
> The olny thing you should have to pay for is merch and consessions


Billy Shat's autograph costs $60. Id bet Robert Englund charges high too. Those are the two id want but why pay? Lame.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

james67 said:


> you can always try to put up an ad for an even trade. remember though that shipping can be $70-$120





DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Shipping shouldn't be that much at all.
> I got an extimate and the shipping would be $53
> I know almost all do overnight or exspress shipping instead of ground right?
> I will most likely wind up just getting some locally even if I have to drive 2 hours.


i was saying that if you only get 2 frogs, and they turn out to be the same sex, then your best option, would be to attempt an even trade (M for F or F for M).
if this was the case YOU would be shipping the frog (and btw overnight is the only way to ship frogs. NEVER ship for longer periods, even if you believe the frogs will make it) and your cost for shipping could be up to $70-120. there are cheaper options, but IMO most aren't worth it.

for instance i just checked fedex quotes from your town to LA (just a randomly selected west coast city) and the overnight options range from $66.99-$102.80.

anyway its something to think about if your weighing the option of purchasing multiple juveniles or a proven pair vs 2 froglets.

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> i was saying that if you only get 2 frogs, and they turn out to be the same sex, then your best option, would be to attempt an even trade (M for F or F for M).
> if this was the case YOU would be shipping the frog (and btw overnight is the only way to ship frogs. NEVER ship for longer periods, even if you believe the frogs will make it) and your cost for shipping could be up to $70-120. there are cheaper options, but IMO most aren't worth it.
> 
> for instance i just checked fedex quotes from your town to LA (just a randomly selected west coast city) and the overnight options range from $66.99-$102.80.
> ...


There is tons of east coast breeders
Repticon will be here at the end of next month


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> There is tons of east coast breeders
> Repticon will be here at the end of next month


Its the 15th and 16th. There will probably only be a couple of people with darts there. Joshs frogs isnt coming this time but you should be able to find some supplies etc...Under the Canopy will be there, but you won't be able to get imis from them. I believe there will be another vendor there this time who may have some thumbs.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

So the moss is coming back to life 
The viv is doing really well.
The drainage is great...in just this amout of time it has finally filled to the point where it had to be drained. I drained it a few days ago.

Her is the moss pics....
This one is doing the best it's in the back left corner









This one is front center....









This one is from right side









This one is on the left sorta inbetween the first two pics.....this is what the moss use to look like before it started turning green again









Here is a full tank shot...
I'm excited about that bromeliad right at the hut. It will grow out towards the left front corner giving the frogs somewhat of a branch to fool around on


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Its the 15th and 16th. There will probably only be a couple of people with darts there. Joshs frogs isnt coming this time but you should be able to find some supplies etc...Under the Canopy will be there, but you won't be able to get imis from them. I believe there will be another vendor there this time who may have some thumbs.


I hope I find something.
I never payed attention to the fact that you're around here haha.
Usually I'm more observant lol
I will definently be getting some cultures there I hope.
I've been breeding crickets for about a year now so I can supply them with pinheads if my cultures fail.
I was wanting to seed the tank before I get them so the springtails can clear out some of the mold.
Honestly I don't even wanna fool with fruit flies.those bastards are everywhere around here and I'm annoyed enough lol.
They actually sell small viles of flightless fruit flies here at my petsmart.
I might just order the media and whatnot and start my own cultures with some of those since I have like $20 still left on my petsmart card and I have nothing I want to buy from there anymore lol.
I wish I could get someone locally to sell me some cultures if they have any extras.
I got a month to figure it out....hopefully I can even make it to Repticon.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

the stolon (branch-y part of the brom) will NOT continue to grow. in my experience broms grow just as they are placed. IME they have never grown to face a light source in a tank. honestly i would move it up so that it doesnt rot, from the constantly high humidity in the bottom of the tank.

and i cant tell from the picture but is there something covering your fan? you need screen to keep from having a froggy massacre.

james


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

I have plenty of extra cultures. Just let me know what you need and we can figure something out.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> the stolon (branch-y part of the brom) will NOT continue to grow. in my experience broms grow just as they are placed. IME they have never grown to face a light source in a tank. honestly i would move it up so that it doesnt rot, from the constantly high humidity in the bottom of the tank.
> 
> and i cant tell from the picture but is there something covering your fan? you need screen to keep from having a froggy massacre.
> 
> james


Yes I have some screen on there 
Thanks for the advice but I'm gonna leave it where it is.
It was free anyway and if I see it going bad I will move it.
It seems to be doing very well at the moment and has had some growth.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> I have plenty of extra cultures. Just let me know what you need and we can figure something out.


Well I'll send ya a PM


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey everyone.
I did some research on some of the Plants they have at PetSmart and decided to use up the last bit of my gift card and get a peacock fern and an unbrella plant. $3.99 each
I pulled them out of the tube and noticed that they were propagated lol.
I bunched the ferns together anyway and I seperated the 3 umbrella plants and put them in different parts of the viv.
Here is a pic. One is at the front, one on the right, and one up above the bottom crypt on the left. I'm just curious about my placement of all of them...will they do well in these places?









While planting I came across some bugs  
Maybe someone can tell me what kind they are...
I plan on bombing the tank...I have some apple cider vinegar and some arm and hammer
That should work shouldn't it?
Do I need to put plastic over the vent or leave the vent clear?
Here is some pics and a vid...idk if you can tell or not but they are teardrop shaped.

















This looks like either mold or their eggs idk









Well the video is taking too long to process....I hate YouTube sometimes.
I'm gonna put it on photobucket I just wish there was a way to embed it here.
http://static.photobucket.com/playe...o154/dragonspirit1185/VID_20110916_174935.mp4


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

The Peacock fern is selaginella...some people have luck with it but I always kill it for some reason. The placement looks good though, hopefully it works out for you. If you are going to do a co2 bomb you definitely want to totally cover the top. I know you like that pillow moss, but more leaf litter and less moss would be much better for the frogs...just a suggestion (I like the way moss looks too).


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> The Peacock fern is selaginella...some people have luck with it but I always kill it for some reason. The placement looks good though, hopefully it works out for you. If you are going to do a co2 bomb you definitely want to totally cover the top. I know you like that pillow moss, but more leaf litter and less moss would be much better for the frogs...just a suggestion (I like the way moss looks too).


Yeah some of the mos isn't doing so well so I plan on pulling some out eventually.
I've gotta gather more leaf litter.
I'm worried I will get bugs again. 
I scrubbed the leaves, boiled them, nuked em, and baked em and I still have bugs.
When I go to co2 bomb the tank will the apple cider vinegar work?
Also what is a good mixture and if I close off the vent off completely won't I be at risk of a blowout?
Do I have to worry about the vinegar and baking soda coming out of the cup and getting all in my viv?
I just wanna make sure I do this right.
I'm gonna go read that co2 generator thread again but idk if I have the supplies to make one.
Thanks for the help I appreciate it.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Those look like springtails, youll be glad you have them when the grapewood starts to mold or your frogs breed.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Okapi said:


> Those look like springtails, youll be glad you have them when the grapewood starts to mold or your frogs breed.


Nah they aren't springtails...
These things look like they have a wing or some sort of shell.
Sprintails almost look like ants and these guys look like tiny beatles almost

And they grapewood is molding badly on the left side.
I'm kinda worried about it choking my plants....will it choke them out?


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

i also bought a peacock fern from petsmart a few months ago and I have had to trim it twice because it grows so well.


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## JakkBauer (Jul 11, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Yeah some of the mos isn't doing so well so I plan on pulling some out eventually.
> I've gotta gather more leaf litter.
> I'm worried I will get bugs again.
> I scrubbed the leaves, boiled them, nuked em, and baked em and I still have bugs.
> ...


Make your co2 bomb in a jug or 2liter and feed it into the viv with tubing. there's a thread on here somewhere that shows u step by step. Ill find it for you if I fire up my pc today. But you don't want all that foam gettin into your viv its going to be like one of those homemade volcanos you see for science projects. You want to just have the gas going into the viv.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

JakkBauer said:


> Make your co2 bomb in a jug or 2liter and feed it into the viv with tubing. there's a thread on here somewhere that shows u step by step. Ill find it for you if I fire up my pc today. But you don't want all that foam gettin into your viv its going to be like one of those homemade volcanos you see for science projects. You want to just have the gas going into the viv.
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


I mentioned that thread and that I was gonna go back and read it 
I saw somewhere that someone was just sticking a cup in the viv and using a small amount of each so it won't come out of the cup  atleast I thought I did.
I've seen sooo many threads on here it's hard to tell haha
Btw I sent you a PM dude....idk if you ever got it or not >_>


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

looks like springs to me. if theyre in the tank, i'd leave them (whatever they are) its just one more food source. i really dont see why you would want to remove that.

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> looks like springs to me. if theyre in the tank, i'd leave them (whatever they are) its just one more food source. i really dont see why you would want to remove that.
> 
> james


I don't think they're springtails. They look nothing like the pics I see on Google.
They have what looks like sings or shells on their back.
I haven't came across any pics of springtails that look like this


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

They could be flour mites. They are very very small and have a shell.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

have you tried looking at them with a magnifying glass? 

are they only where a good amount of moisture is at?

looks like my mushrooms once the baby springs have started moving and feeding.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

they very well could be white flies...they are white, small, and hide on the underparts of leaves...when the leaf is disturbed, they fly and sorta hover...it tends to be on nursery plants when nurseries are not well taken care of...and will definately be a problem...am interested in the CO 2 thing...may try that between frog populations...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> They could be flour mites. They are very very small and have a shell.


Maybe....they look like they have been dusted with flour or clacium.
Are flour mites harmful?
Are they common on plants you get from Lowes?
I'm pretty sure I got them from the Purple Waffle plants


Andy I can see them very well with the naked eye but this camera nor any camera can focus so close like the naked eye can lol. (I mean a common phone or digital camera)
They definently don't look like springtails. 
Yeah they are mostly in the leaf litter under the cocohut and there is a good bit of moisture under there.
And what looks like your mushrooms


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm not sure they're harmful to frogs or humans, I can't find much info on them. They're also called grocery mites. They come in flour and sometimes veggies, so there is a possible chance that they are flour mites and from your plants. I would take your frogs out, put dry ice in a container and feed the CO2 into your tank. During then, inspect your frog for them, then after a few hours put frog backi n (Check temps too!)


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> I'm not sure they're harmful to frogs or humans, I can't find much info on them. They're also called grocery mites. They come in flour and sometimes veggies, so there is a possible chance that they are flour mites and from your plants. I would take your frogs out, put dry ice in a container and feed the CO2 into your tank. During then, inspect your frog for them, then after a few hours put frog backi n (Check temps too!)


Yeah I plan on making a co2 generator and use vinegar and baking soda.
I don't have any frogs in there yet


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Judy S said:


> they very well could be white flies...they are white, small, and hide on the underparts of leaves...when the leaf is disturbed, they fly and sorta hover...it tends to be on nursery plants when nurseries are not well taken care of...and will definately be a problem...am interested in the CO 2 thing...may try that between frog populations...


Nah these don't fly even tho they look like they have wings...


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Yeah I plan on making a co2 generator and use vinegar and baking soda.
> I don't have any frogs in there yet


Wow, i'm stupid! I didn't even remember you didn't have frogs yet. With the vinegar and baking soda you might be able to put it into the tank, but dry ice will lower your temps fast, thus killing your plants.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Neontra said:


> I'm not sure they're harmful to frogs or humans, I can't find much info on them. They're also called grocery mites. They come in flour and sometimes veggies, so there is a possible chance that they are flour mites and from your plants. I would take your frogs out, put dry ice in a container and feed the CO2 into your tank. During then, inspect your frog for them, then after a few hours put frog backi n (Check temps too!)


again, what would make you think co2 bombing is necessary? they are small bugs (FOOD). bombing the tank will likely do little to prevent any sort of issues that they COULD have brought with them. your just killing another food source (if it even kills them)

you will always get unintended microfauna in your tanks so if your worried this much about it, you going to have a constant problem. 

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Neontra said:


> Wow, i'm stupid! I didn't even remember you didn't have frogs yet. With the vinegar and baking soda you might be able to put it into the tank, but dry ice will lower your temps fast, thus killing your plants.


Haha you're not stupid....just a silly mistake.
Yeah I would be more at risk since my tank is so small and it would get super cold.
I'm gonna make a co2 generator but I'm not exatly sure how or where I'm gonna feed the tubing into the tank :/


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> again, what would make you think co2 bombing is necessary? they are small bugs (FOOD). bombing the tank will likely do little to prevent any sort of issues that they COULD have brought with them. your just killing another food source (if it even kills them)
> 
> you will always get unintended microfauna in your tanks so if your worried this much about it, you going to have a constant problem.
> 
> james


But what if these little guys are harmful and they kill my pair of frogs


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> i was saying that if you only get 2 frogs, and they turn out to be the same sex, then your best option, would be to attempt an even trade (M for F or F for M).
> if this was the case YOU would be shipping the frog (and btw overnight is the only way to ship frogs. NEVER ship for longer periods, even if you believe the frogs will make it) and your cost for shipping could be up to $70-120. there are cheaper options, but IMO most aren't worth it.
> 
> for instance i just checked fedex quotes from your town to LA (just a randomly selected west coast city) and the overnight options range from $66.99-$102.80.
> ...


Well I've been thinking about this "even trade"
So each person pays to ship the frogs right? So like $50-$70
Well I already bought the frog for let's say $50...then I have to pay $50 to ship it to someone for a frog of equal value....for an "even trade" but that means I spent $100 on a frog and I'm only getting a frog worth $50 so really on loosing money :/
Is this how it usually works or am I right? 
I'm not trying to loose $50 lol that's not really an even trade.

I think I might just wait and find someone who can get me a sexed pair.
Or find a local who can meet and just do an even trade.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey everyone here is an update.
I finally got a video uploaded of the viv 






Let me know if the video is jumpy....I watched it before I uploaded and it was fine. Idk if it's the WiFi here messing up or not but if everyone has the same problem I'm going to upload it again.


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## Jerryo (Sep 27, 2011)

Nice setup, But what happen when your fan fails. Would you need to rip the top portion apart.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Jerryo said:


> Nice setup, But what happen when your fan fails. Would you need to rip the top portion apart.


I can just cut the front part off the fan box and loosen the hot glue and then throw a new fan in there and get another piece of chloroplast and spray some GS on there and silicone it and eco earth it.
while having my frogs in a container for about a week or more.
the fan is rated at 12v but I turn it down to 9v so it will spare it a bit longer 

This was my first tank and I plan on making another one.
It will have the glass busted out of the top and the glass I put on there will be on hinges so when i open the top I can access my fan box


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

here is a view of how the LEDs look and give it a moonlight glow.
I used my dad's camera instead of my phone and you can actually see the effect of the fan's LEDs



















Diferent camera setting...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

so I had to get rid of all my other animals and I had this arrowhead plant in my green tree frog tank and I was by the my old place and grabbed the plant but it would be too big just for one spot so I took and split it into 3 parts.
I washed the plant with a 10% bleach solution to get rid of the wastes and stuff from the GTFs.
btw the leaves are a bit yellow cause I have had the plant sitting in my old house and they haven't had light for a bit....
so here is each one and a full tank shot...
I'm worried the big arrowheads might shadow the small ones...what do you think?

they are gonna love having these leaves like this to sit on and call 

























FTS
it't not very bright cause I had to turn the light back on to do a fts and the lights hadn't kicked on fully...even tho they are suppose to be "instant on"









I'm about to pull the moss there in front of the cocohut once I get more leaf litter gathered....I'm gonna leave the green area there in front of the cocohut as a doormat lols.
I know ppl have said they wont use the cocohut but I'm gonna give it a try.

Repticon is at the end of the month and I hope I get to go and hopefully I can find a pair of thumbnails, hopefully a male and female.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

my cobalts used to go in my cocohut all the time, but they still retreat to the big driftwood log at night to sleep-they have a burrow underneath it. once they get too big to fit under it and if they don't use the cocohut i will pull it and put in a BROM in its place.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> my cobalts used to go in my cocohut all the time, but they still retreat to the big driftwood log at night to sleep-they have a burrow underneath it. once they get too big to fit under it and if they don't use the cocohut i will pull it and put in a BROM in its place.


well just don't put the brom straight into the soil...
it will rot..


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> well just don't put the brom straight into the soil...
> it will rot..


 
yep, i have to much vested in my NEO's to make that mistake:

i also ordered (2) NEO BROM DOMINOS from Jason Desantis that should be here this friday. when i originally ordered my plants he didn't have any available so that is why i had to wait until now. i will try to find a generic pic of the DOMINO.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

update pics..............
going to Repticon Saturday so expect another update.
got some guys that are gonna drop some plant cuttings off for me and a springtail culture. 
hopefully I can find some nice broms there and maybe some tillandsias

here is the tank as of now...sorry not any scientific names for the plants xD
FTS









the moss is making a come back and it is growing taller
























































this creeping fig is getting up there lol








this purple waffle is getting tall...although it's not bushing out :/








peacock fern....I hope it fills in more..








some of the leaves on that arrowhead plat is dying off....I think theis is from me splitting the plant :/
















this one I love lol....my cryptanthus is rooting to the wood 

and here is where I have it set up at









might be starting on some more tanks soon to sell....


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

hey everyone I have an awesome update for you 

I went to Repticon and got some broms $4 a piece and Tillsandsias, the one in the middle was $3 and the two top ones were $1.25(I think).
I met up with 
Field/fielsieldnstream and he hooked me up with some peperomias, a begonia, a bunch of wondering jew lol, and he gave me a small springtail culture. I also bought some of Fields ABG and leaf litter
then I met up with Jason/itsott and he hooked me up with some cuttings as well...more wondering jew lol, some verigated peperromias, some vine I cant remember what he said it was XD, some type of fern, some ivy(didn't use), fittonia(didn't use).
two very awesome guys who made me very happy today 

so here is all that I wound up coming home with...and only pulled $25 from my wallet...









here is the ABG leaf litter and springs I got from Field


























here was the tank before....










and now the chaos begins 
the silicone pulled away from the bottom pane of glass cause I wasn't using my brain and didn't think just to remove the top glass.









-____________________-

then I go to Ace and they didn't have good silicone so I opted for epoxy...I called ahead of time and they said they had marine epoxy but nope I get there and there isn't any :/

the tear down...









testing the arrangement...looks good...what do you think?









arranging more plants...









now I will show you the plants the the full take shot for the finale.
need help to ID some scientific names and the broms....

this is my fav brom even tho idk it's name XD. been wanting one since I saw it months ago....I'm so happy I found it 









love this one..needs ID









this one I liked as well...this one and the one above had stolons so I just shoved the stolons into the background.









shoved into the background..









here is the Tills 
this one will grow upwards so I put it here and it will grow up towards the fan..Tills need lots of air movement in case ya didn't know. Needs ID.









this one is very colorful and shoots blue flowers...
I broke one of the leaves :'(









I think this one is different than the one above although it was in the same basket I think it was there by accident so I grabbed it hoping it's different than the other.









here is a close up of the the broms









begonia...given to me by Field/fieldnstream

















verigated peperomias? give to me by Jason/itsott
front of tank








back right corner









pilea creeping charlie...given by Field









wondering jew in the back right corner and a pepromia glabela on the right (Field)









another wondering jew (Jason)









a peperomia....ID? (Field)









2 types of ferns...one bought a Petsmart and the other given to me by Jason.









here is that vine that I cant cant remember what it's called given to me by Jason it is sorta behind the till...










here is some FTS
















from the top...









so as you can see I pulled the live moss...I also took out the Purple Waffle and the generic cryptanthus

what do you think??? 

please rate my thread....thank you 

thanks again Field and James....hopefully one day I can return the favour
btw...Field those are some massive chunks of charcoal in there xD are they suppose to be that big lol


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Looking good Brandon...looks like your trip to repticon was fruitful. I will try to get you an ID on the pep, can't remember off the top of my head. The big chunks of charcoal in the ABG came from a springtail culture, wanted to go ahead and seed it for you. Tank is coming along nicely, hope you can find some thumbs soon bud.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Looking good Brandon...looks like your trip to repticon was fruitful. I will try to get you an ID on the pep, can't remember off the top of my head. The big chunks of charcoal in the ABG came from a springtail culture, wanted to go ahead and seed it for you. Tank is coming along nicely, hope you can find some thumbs soon bud.


thanks man.
I just hope I can get that bottom glass sealed back up...I have epoxy on it right now until I can get to a bigger hardware store and get some black silicone.
I'm gonna cake it on there haha. hopefully it doesn't come off again.

so the large charcoal chunks came from a spring culture so does at mean that mean the ABG mix is seeded?


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

Let me know how your Tillsandsias are doing every few days as i am curious to see how your experience goes with these as it has been very hard to get mine to maintain their colors.

Like the broms, i am waiting to see what goes on with the nemertean-worm whatever before i add my Brom's in it from the planted.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> Let me know how your Tillsandsias are doing every few days as i am curious to see how your experience goes with these as it has been very hard to get mine to maintain their colors.
> 
> Like the broms, i am waiting to see what goes on with the nemertean-worm whatever before i add my Brom's in it from the planted.


I would bomb and get rid of that guy...most worms can reproduce themselves.
the worms may eat yo frogs?

how do you thin it looks tho?
and yesh I'm fishing for compliments


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I was looks in my dad's fridge and noticed he had a grocery bag full of film and I asked if I could have the film containers and my step mum said yes 

so now I'm curious what do I use to attach the the suction cup to the container and also where would be the best places to put them...
and will 6 be enough?


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> so the large charcoal chunks came from a spring culture so does at mean that mean the ABG mix is seeded?


Yeah it should have some springs in there...I just pulled some larger chunks from one of my cultures...there wont be a bunch of springs, but I thought it couldn't hurt. You are definitely gonna want to seed the tank more once you get your bigger culture booming...you have made a bigger culture right


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

so I made up the film containers and thanks to some awesome info from Scott
I made some awesome film containers 
this project only costed me $1 for the suction cups from The Dollar Tree. 
as I said above I got the film canisters out of the film storage bag in my dad's fridge.

I took a black container and drilled a hole in the side. 
Then took one of these suction cups...








and I scored the side right before the bend 








then I snapped it in half








I sanded down the end well to get rid of any sharpness.








then I just pushed the suction cup through the hole in the black container and pushed the pin in.









then I made inserts for the canisters so removing eggs would be simple.
I took some white film canisters and cut them in half and this makes two inserts.
















then you just trim them up a bit and get rid of those sharp corners and they slide right in









I sanitized them with a 10% bleach solution
The back of the white canisters is like a shelf so when you pull it it pulls the eggs with it....
Thanks for the awesome info Scott
no Slurpee straws for me...you've egg removal a piece of cake

here is the canisters in the viv
























I've heard about how some frogs will lay eggs in the top of the viv so I put one up top by the fan box lol









I'm pretty much set now...I just need to make up some more springtail cultures and seed the tank and start making fruit fly cultures then get me a pair of thumbnails.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Yeah it should have some springs in there...I just pulled some larger chunks from one of my cultures...there wont be a bunch of springs, but I thought it couldn't hurt. You are definitely gonna want to seed the tank more once you get your bigger culture booming...you have made a bigger culture right


not just yet lol it's only been a day. I didn't think to get a container at the store..
I have some containers but they have holes cut in the top with screen on them but the screen hole are about as tiny as the springs themselves.
I have one here that has some pinheads in it that i had from the last of my cricket colony.
I have been feeding the pinheads to some native fence lizards and green anoles. I see them basking outside on the rocks and I slowly walk up then they run and hang out on the side out of view and I dump them and back up and they come back out and tear em up 
I live next to the woods and they are eveywhere and toads are always around as well.
here is the "shoebox" container








here is a very close up shot of the screen so the holes look like 3 times bigger for some reason.









how many cultures do you think I can split that one you gave me into?


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I would bomb and get rid of that guy...most worms can reproduce themselves.
> the worms may eat yo frogs?


 
can you explain the above a little bit clearer than what you did?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> can you explain the above a little bit clearer than what you did?


Most worms are both male and female...they can reproduce without having to mate I'm pretty sure.
The worms might harfull to your PDFs....who knoes...I'd get rid of them


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Its looking great.

We have some REALLY nice, generous members here, don't we?

And we jews are WANDERING not WONDERING ;-)


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> Its looking great.
> 
> We have some REALLY nice, generous members here, don't we?
> 
> And we jews are WANDERING not WONDERING ;-)


yeah mostly all are but some on here can't let things go that happened when i first joined in Dec of last year :/

yeah I got the words mixed up haha....i really wish they gave us the option to go in and change things like that.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

all my cutting are already shooting roots....
Field's ABG seems to be pretty good.
I like the incorporation of the leaves for decomposition.
It's very good stuff the plants seem to love it


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

This build is pretty sweet. Looks awesome man!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

flyingSquirrel said:


> This build is pretty sweet. Looks awesome man!


thanks man. don't be afraid to get so colorful like I did lol.
I didn't want mine to just be a sea of green. 
can't wait to see your viv planted


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Final setup looks really good. I'm not usually a fan of 10 gallon setups, I find them too small, but you pulled it off nicely. May I suggest you research the wandering jew to see how big it gets?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

jacobi said:


> Final setup looks really good. I'm not usually a fan of 10 gallon setups, I find them too small, but you pulled it off nicely. May I suggest you research the wandering jew to see how big it gets?


thanks. I don't know what I was thinking before hand thinking when I first did it that it was so amazing but who doesn't get like that on their first build lol.
yeah I'm not a fan of small tanks either but I'm novice so I'm gonna get some thumbnails. most likely imitators.
yeah wandering jew gets big but that's why you pinch it back 
I just put it in there to fill in the hole from that terrestrial bromeliad I took out.


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## FIT BMX (Jun 10, 2011)

Looks great!!!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

here is a slideshow I made


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## WeeNe858 (Sep 13, 2010)

I wish my first convention was as fruitful...... 

good looking tank!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

WeeNe858 said:


> I wish my first convention was as fruitful......
> 
> good looking tank!


well why wasn't it?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

here is a small update...
and yes I had just misted and no it doesn't stay this wet for long.

got a bunch of begonias going on lol
1st begonia/motherplant








2nd begonia








3rd begonia








4th begonia









I'm thinking about leaving the 2nd begonia so i left it on the ground but with the 3rd&4th on I put them up away from the ground so they wont root into the ABG.
When they get bigger I will disconnect them from the mother plant and put them in some small pots and let them grow and use them for future builds.

this is my peperomia glabela(I'm pretty sure that's what this is) is getting bigger and one it get's big enough I plan on weaving it in and around all the broms and stuff on the background. I have it growing where it is so it won't root to the background and it will just keep getting longer.









I need an ID on this vine. it was given to me by Jason/itsott.
I pulled it away from the background before it could root to it so I know what I am dealing with and to see what it will look like before I put it in it's final place.









that vine above is the only plant still alive that Jason gave me besides the Ivy. I kept the ivy just laying on the floor and even it is going sour.
So, so far 2 peperomias and the new ferns have all died.
Maybe they might come back like i have seen them do in some vivs lol who knows.
All the plants I got from Field/fieldnstream seem to be doing just fine and they are thriving 

this brom I got is fanning out more than I thought it would lol. Hopefully the other 2 don't do this 









here is a full tank shot.










and here is a few showing how it dries so I don't get people bombarding me with replies saying it's too moist  the first ones were taken around 3pm.
These next ones just 30mins later and you can see it's already beginning to dry so yes it does dry off a good bit before lights out.
I keep getting people telling me I keep it too wet but it's not the case. They mostly see pics right after I mist 









here is a better look at the leaf of the vine I need to get an ID on

































another FTS












thanks for viewing


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Looks like all the plants are doing really well...that begonia is gonna take over soon Let the smaller ones get a little size on them and then pull them and plant them in a pot. In no time at all you will be swimming in little begonias. I was wrong on the Pep id...it is serpens (but it was labelled glabella when I bought it), whatever the name its a great plant. It establishes really quickly from cuttings, so when it gets a little bigger you could cut a couple of pieces off and start a mother plant (that's what I did and I have a bunch now). The pic below is from two cuttings that were smaller than the one I gave you, this is about 2 months of growth. You can do the same with that other pep (P. orba) you got from me (I started with 1 small one and I have like 15, plus the ones I gave to you and Walker). Hope you have some good pruning shears for that aglanomea!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Looks like all the plants are doing really well...that begonia is gonna take over soon Let the smaller ones get a little size on them and then pull them and plant them in a pot. In no time at all you will be swimming in little begonias. I was wrong on the Pep id...it is serpens (but it was labelled glabella when I bought it), whatever the name its a great plant. It establishes really quickly from cuttings, so when it gets a little bigger you could cut a couple of pieces off and start a mother plant (that's what I did and I have a bunch now). The pic below is from two cuttings that were smaller than the one I gave you, this is about 2 months of growth. You can do the same with that other pep (P. orba) you got from me (I started with 1 small one and I have like 15, plus the ones I gave to you and Walker). Hope you have some good pruning shears for that aglanomea!


yeah I plan on growing a bunch of mother plants and use them for future vivs.
I'm hoping they will let me bring my big tank over here and use it as a grow tank.
So the two big plants I have on the left and right are aglanomea? (the plant you see the vine below on)
I got that plant on clearance at Petco in Douglasville and it just said it was an arrowhead plant.
any idea what this one vine plant is?


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Yeah they are aglanoema. They are great viv plants, but can grow pretty quickly if their roots stay wet. I used to use them in all of my treefrog vivs because they are really tough plants. I don't know what the vine is.


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## itsott (Nov 25, 2010)

the vine i gave you is sphagmonium rayii, sorry to hear that the free cuttings i gave you didnt make it. I used cuttings from that batch in some of my new buils and they are thriving. Might have been too shady for them in there.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thats not a real name

and it doesnt look like syngonium rayii (which i assume you were thinking it was)










james


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## itsott (Nov 25, 2010)

sorry for the mix up but what james posted is what i gave you a piece of. Thank you james


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

itsott said:


> sorry for the mix up but what james posted is what i gave you a piece of. Thank you james


i see no need for apology, i think somehow you got sphagnum (moss) and syngonium mixed together. but im fairly certain its not s. rayii. the growth habit is much different. its definitely some sort of aroid, but i think thats about all your going to get until theres some more mature growth.

james


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## itsott (Nov 25, 2010)

if it is the vine i gave him it should be. Ill snap some pics in the morning of the plant i cut it from. I did exactly that man scatter brained. THis happens when i try to work,type, and read at the same time.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

itsott said:


> the vine i gave you is sphagmonium rayii, sorry to hear that the free cuttings i gave you didnt make it. I used cuttings from that batch in some of my new buils and they are thriving. Might have been too shady for them in there.


idk what it was with the ferns, but that vine is holding up. 
the ivy is looking bad tho.
My lights are pretty bright although the fern were in the shadiest spot, yet it was bright there..
The peperomias died due to my error of planting them against the glass and it was too moist there from all the condensation and the soil the is moist from the water running down. should have know better lol.
I'm grateful for the cuttings and I hope I didn't come across as ungrateful.
I'm just not having luck with any of your plants


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

what is the small, blue, horizontal slit in the background???


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Judy S said:


> what is the small, blue, horizontal slit in the background???


I'm thinking you mean that blue light. That is an air circulationg system 
Jason you need to skim through my build haha.
It's not spread out like most people's build all is withing the first few pages 
Yeah it's only a 10g very but I incorperated an air circulation system


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I'm thinking you mean that blue light. That is an air circulationg system
> Jason you need to skim through my build haha.
> It's not spread out like most people's build all is withing the first few pages
> Yeah it's only a 10g very but I incorperated an air circulation system



Sorry Judy I got mixed up with replying to both you and Jason XD
I didn't mean to call you Jason lulz.
This is why we should be able to edit posts later on....
Anyway I actually didn't see it on my thread anywhere only the first couple of ideas...another reason why I think we should be able to go back and edit and add something we forgot....
anyway here is the pic of the final product


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I went back and re-read all 18 pages of your thread...the way you installed the fan was interesting...can you tell me how you ran the cords through the top to run the electric?? And the LED light was what was blue...how did you install that inside that cube. What is the chloroplast??? It was a really interesting build...but the picture of your bedroom...why not "flip" the location of your tank so it is more visible?? jes askin'...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Judy S said:


> I went back and re-read all 18 pages of your thread...the way you installed the fan was interesting...can you tell me how you ran the cords through the top to run the electric?? And the LED light was what was blue...how did you install that inside that cube. What is the chloroplast??? It was a really interesting build...but the picture of your bedroom...why not "flip" the location of your tank so it is more visible?? jes askin'...


The fan came with the LEDs made into it and I just simply stuck the wires in the top corner and hot glued them and then I drilled a hole in the left top corner of my vent and ran the wires through there. wrapped them in electrical tape to keep the black look the I hot glued it along the sides.
Chloraplast is that plastic material that they make those election signs with.

With the location do you mean where I had it on the stand or how I have it now on my rack?
I have it where it is now to keep it at the other end of where the tv is. I had it in the center behind the tv but the tv was putting off too much heat and the temp was reaching the high 80s. Where I have it now the temp stays at 72-75.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Do you have any frogs in here yet?..


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Dizzle21 said:


> Do you have any frogs in here yet?..


nope not yet 
The step mum isn't allowing it yet and I had some recent events that led me to loose my family, well my old lady went crazy so I called social services, she moved out and took my daughter  so I had to move into my dad's house 
I can't really afford any right now.
I also want to get culturing down first...I have the springtails down pretty good and I am gonna wait till I get the ok for the frogs or when I get back on my feet then when I know I can get them I am gonna start learning to culture fruit flies and once I have got that down then time for the frogs 
I want to make sure I'm ready to go 100% and not have my cultures crash on me and stuff, I want to make sure I know what I'm doing 
I'm hoping it won't be too much longer


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Sorry for your disruptive life right now...at least you have some options... I totally agree with you about being able to get the FF thing down...it sort of has been something holding me back as well. We should just bite the damn bullet and DO it...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Judy S said:


> Sorry for your disruptive life right now...at least you have some options... I totally agree with you about being able to get the FF thing down...it sort of has been something holding me back as well. We should just bite the damn bullet and DO it...


bite the bullet and just learn to culture the fruit flies?
it's doesn't look that hard at all the only thing I see an issues with is mites but there is ways to prevent the mites.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Sometimes its hard enough to remember to wash my husband's socks and restock the TP--let alone how to master FFs...but I guess I DO have to learn...


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> bite the bullet and just learn to culture the fruit flies?
> it's doesn't look that hard at all the only thing I see an issues with is mites but there is ways to prevent the mites.


Issues other than mites: cultures drying out, cultures being too moist, mold, temp fluctuations, "spontaneous" fliers, crashes (often times hard to explain)...the list goes on. It may seem easy (and often it is) but there will be issues. And you cant prevent mites...everyone has mites. You can work to keep them under control (I have recently started using mite paper for this purpose).


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Issues other than mites: cultures drying out, cultures being too moist, mold, temp fluctuations, "spontaneous" fliers, crashes (often times hard to explain)...the list goes on. It may seem easy (and often it is) but there will be issues. And you cant prevent mites...everyone has mites. You can work to keep them under control (I have recently started using mite paper for this purpose).


more reason to get it down and make sure I know what I'm doing before getting frogs 
I think I can take care of all those things eventually, practice makes perfect or something close to it lol.
thanks for the heads up


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Some good points Field.

And to add to that there's the conditions in your home and the time of year. AC to heat. Relative humidity/Temps in your home and what it does to your cultures. I'd say a full year of culturing and you will get the hang of it. I'm in my third year and had a major crash this summer (Didn't see that coming... lol) It took a while to get back on track. Make sure to put some cash away so that you can order in a pinch.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> Some good points Field.
> 
> And to add to that there's the conditions in your home and the time of year. AC to heat. Relative humidity/Temps in your home and what it does to your cultures. I'd say a full year of culturing and you will get the hang of it. I'm in my third year and had a major crash this summer (Didn't see that coming... lol) It took a while to get back on track. Make sure to put some cash away so that you can order in a pinch.


Field doesn't far I'm sure if i sent him a check or money order or some shizz he could send me some cultures.

That sound ok Field?


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Yeah man we can figure something out.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

as a practical issue....how many darts that you would keep would merit the whole issue of raising your own FFs?? This isn't a trick question...but a question that is worthy of an honest answer... If I dove into having one viv with darts...would that be something I should get into as far as raising my own FFs?? Would two vivs with four darts, five darts? I'm trying to learn..not be stupid or whatever... If I endeavor to set up vivs for darts...I really and truely want to be totally prepared for the responsibility of feeding them 24/7 365... The tree frogs I have are so different, more forgiving in many ways...and the prospect of the more "delicate" darts is a cause for hesitation... Setting up vivs with all the plants, waterfalls, etc. is a wonderful opportunity for artistic expression which I really love...but the addition of a live animal with its own demands for a healthy, enjoyable (captive) experience weighs on my conscience...so I need good advice from those people who have had experience in a "home" setting...you are the ones we really need...thanks for reading (maybe) this point of view...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Judy S said:


> as a practical issue....how many darts that you would keep would merit the whole issue of raising your own FFs?? This isn't a trick question...but a question that is worthy of an honest answer... If I dove into having one viv with darts...would that be something I should get into as far as raising my own FFs?? Would two vivs with four darts, five darts? I'm trying to learn..not be stupid or whatever... If I endeavor to set up vivs for darts...I really and truely want to be totally prepared for the responsibility of feeding them 24/7 365... The tree frogs I have are so different, more forgiving in many ways...and the prospect of the more "delicate" darts is a cause for hesitation... Setting up vivs with all the plants, waterfalls, etc. is a wonderful opportunity for artistic expression which I really love...but the addition of a live animal with its own demands for a healthy, enjoyable (captive) experience weighs on my conscience...so I need good advice from those people who have had experience in a "home" setting...you are the ones we really need...thanks for reading (maybe) this point of view...


it would be a necessity for even only one frog...you could just keep ordering cultures but why keep ordering or buying the viles when you can buy once and culture many more.
to supplement PDFs you would need FF but I guess you could dust maybe some small pinhead crickets or isopods but FF gives them the thrill of the hunt and seeking down their prey


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

another, key, question of which I have read opposite opinions--does one have to HAVE to feed PDFs every day??? That is one thing that makes having tree frogs so much easier...and without too much doubt, I am not the only noob who has wondered about this issue...thanks for some advice...


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

I feed froglets every day, but I only feed my adults every 2-3 days (and many are still a little too fat right now). I don't think feeding every day is a necessity at all...as long as the frogs have good body shape and are being properly supplemented they will be fine, especially if you have a good microfauna population.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

once a week is fine or most frogs (froglets are a different story)

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Here is a small update on my viv.
As you can see the broms have lost their color a bit but the bottom one has went from maroon to green. I plan on getting some LED bulbs in the future and see if anything changes. Too broke right now haha.
I'm not happy with how the Ficus pumila is growing lol. It goes green and spreads then dies some then grows more and dies some lol so irritating.
As you can see the Tillandsia in the top right has been moved and it nearly died so I moved it under the fan and it is slowly getting better.
I need to find something to put there in like some kind of vine that will spread downward....any suggestions?
I have removed some plants from the viv and propagated some others and put them in a grow out tank that has a power compact fixture for lighting.

Here is a full tank shot of the viv:









One of my tillandsias is shooting a pup. 









Here is some shots from the grow out tank...

















Here is some pics of some plants individually.....

Peperomia Serpens:









Peperomia glabella:









Strawberry Begonia:










Wandering Jew and Strawberry Begonia:









This plant I have no idea what it is but I will have a better idea when it grows out. It was a long vine with a couple leaves then the vine started dying.
Also another Strawberry Begonia.








If anyone has any idea what is is let me know.

Thanks for viewing 
See ya around..


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## fishr (Dec 20, 2010)

Looks well thought out in the plant 'scape! Hope they all do well for you.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fishr said:


> Looks well thought out in the plant 'scape! Hope they all do well for you.


Thank you Jessica 
I just wish it would grow in faster. That ficus pumila should be taking off but it is just being all weird.
The Wandering Jew is starting to climb up. There are about 4 pieces going about half way up now...
It's only been 4 months but I thought it would grow in more already haha
Thanks for stopping by and checking it out


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

My 10 gallon vertical vivarium fall 2012 update

Idk why I can't get the video to embed :/
It use to do it easily


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