# A few newbie questions



## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

i was interested in getting one or two cobalt tincs and i had two questions before i make a decision: could one or two cobalt tincs live in a horizontal 10g tank because i heard that they like horizontal vivs instead of vertical ones like most dart frogs, and do they require any UVB or is a fluorescent and plant bulb enough lighting? (im pretty sure uvb isnt needed but i wanted to make sure)


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Welcome! 

UVB is not needed. You 'could' put 2 in a 10 gallon but I think a 20g would be better. I just use daylight compact fluorescent lights for the plants. People are also going with LED these days.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

would a horizontal one work


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

Tincs require horizontal vivs. In fact, most darts need a mixture of horizontal and vertical but with tincs, about 75% of the time they should be on the floor of the viv. If you get either one lone dart frog or you get a sexed pair, a ten gallon may just be big enough if set up well with lots of plants and hiding spots. If you can afford to go bigger, do it. Many people have success in ten gallons but I recommend bigger. You probably know this but tincs are territorial, especially females so try to place a sexed pair in the viv. I do not know much about lighting but hopefully someone will chime in on that, as well as fill in the information I missed. Good luck and do plenty of research!

Edit: while I was typing someone answered the lighting question. Isn't it great to have a community of people that share your interests and can answer questions at a moments notice?


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

how much do you think i would spend total (with the frog) on the enclosure?


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

Money can vanish in this hobby lol.
It really depends on your standards and what you want. I'd say minimum (I could be way off): $200 for a decent setup and if you get a good deal on frogs. I could be WAAAY of though!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If you time it right, you can get a 20g tank from PetCo for 20 bucks during their dollar a gallon sale. You could also start off with a couple froglets in a 10 gallon while you wait for the next sale. Seems like they just had one last month and they come every few months. 

If you do a Great Stuff background, I think that is around 5-6 bucks. A panel of eggcrate is 11 bucks at my Lowe's. Another 10 bucks or so for the substrate. Some leaf litter (you might be able to collect your own. Just needs to be from somewhere that is not fertilized or sprayed with pesticides etc). 10-20 bucks for your starter fruit flies. I use a shop clamp lamp for my lights, 7 bucks. Then one of those curly fluorescent lights 3 bucks or so. Plants don't need to be fancy. I find that a cheap philodendron vine works just fine. You can also get some nicer plants from some of the sponsors on the board. Oh, and you'll need a lid. I get a couple of pieces of glass cut at Ace Hardware for not much money. Maybe another 10 bucks. 

Oh silicone to stick eco earth to the background, 5 bucks. Eco earth 5 bucks. 

It really doesn't have to be expensive. 

Hah! volcano


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

i plan on one in a 10g and is a screen top bad because they sell these zilla 10g long tanks with a screen top for like 10-15 bucks and i think i would just do a cork background because this would be my first dart frog viv and i dont want to make a fancy background with places for pots and vines and stuff. coco substrate is fine right because i already have a bag of that along with a box or two of sphangnum(not sure about spelling) moss for decoration/humidity.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

also for a bottom i planned on a drainage layer of hydroballs then a screen/mesh, then substrate or is the egg crate the only thing i can do?


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

Lol! Currently I only have one display tank so I pour money into it. But you cheated! Where's the frog price? I win!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

They need a glass top. Screen tops do not keep the tank humid enough. Hydroballs are fine. No need for eggcrate if you are using hydroballs. 



> Lol! Currently I only have one display tank so I pour money into it. But you cheated! Where's the frog price? I win!


 Ok then


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

i added up that price with the frog and it was around 160 but i wont be able to afford that until September sadly because I'm in the process of getting pygmy chameleons and my money will be spent on those but my birthday is in September so ill have money by then. i started asking questions early because i came across some cobalts and i liked them and its always better to have plenty of time to research.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

also, ill get a piece of glass to put over the screen lid and ill just remove when i need to open the tank up or is that not ok?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Technically it's 'ok' but please read this thread before you do that: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...-help-nose-rub-scabs-two-my-azureus-pics.html


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

If there is glass on the top, how would a light do anything for the temp and plants?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

The temp and the light that the plants need will penetrate the glass. Trust me. Look around at the pics and you'll see lots of lush vivs, all with glass lids. 

Oh, and you don't really need or want a heat lamp on darts. Just regular old human grade comfy room temps.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

What wattage do you use and what plant bulb is the best?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm not one of the plant experts here. There's lots of good info in the plant section. However, my plants seem to do fine with a plain old, curly, daylight florescent bulb. Like this: Earthmate 15 Watt Mini Spiral Compact Fluorescent Light Bulb: Decor : Walmart.com

I try to get the 13 watt because it doesn't seem to heat up as much as the higher watts. It's fine for my small to medium sized tanks. Look for the ones that say 'daylight'.

Looks like they're going up in price. Seems like they were only 3 bucks or so not long ago. Anyway, lots of folks are changing over to LED lights so maybe look at those too. Several of our sponsors sell them. Here's a link to the website of one of them: Light Your Reptiles


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

What's an easy and inexpensive background that I can get to fit customaly or should I just go with cork


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

There are so many choices. You should look around in the Construction area and see what appeals to you. I've done Great Stuff and I've done clay. Lately, I haven't been doing any sort of background. 

Parts & Construction - Dendroboard


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Coco fiber substrate retains too much water. It's going to rot and the plants aren't going to do very well. The root system will rot. 

The lighting for plants to thrive should be 6500kelvin on the light spectrum and the lumens should be 800-1000. Wattage is only how much electricity the bulb draws. Lumens is output and kelvin is color lighting spectrum. CFL (compact flourescent light) or t5-t8 are adequate. 

It sounds to me like you want to own frogs but don't want to spend the money on the husbandry. Stop and don't buy anything. Read and do your research. If you don't, you're going to kill a poor defenseless animal. Start here:
http://www.amazon.com/Poison-Dart-Frogs-Guide-Breeding/dp/0615422179/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1367494397&sr=8-2&keywords=Dart+frogs

Once you've saved your money, and prepared yourself, then put together the vivarium. Once that's all set, you can buy the frogs. This shouldn't be an impulse buy untl you're prepared.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

I wouldn't consider this an impulse buy as the OP already stated that he/she wouldn't be setting it up until September. Also, many people (myself included) are more interested in the frogs themselves than spending lots of money on the tank. You can set up a nice tank without all of the latest and greatest gadgets and end up with very happy frogs.

With that being said... the knowledge here is free. I think it's good that you're asking questions, but Ed is right...take this time to do some research on your own. The many questions you are asking are very basic and most can be answered here - http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/11865-good-threads-read-beginners.html

Once you've read through them and while you're in the process of getting things ready, you're sure to have even more questions. At this time the search function will become your best friend! If there's anything you're unclear on, I'm sure everyone will be happy to answer or point you to even more threads that have the answers you need. 

Welcome.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

Sorry If I sounded cheap it just didn't want to buy unnecessarry things but if something I required I'll buy at and I know I can't take in a frog right know, Ive been spending 6 months on the chameleon forums researching my pygmy chameleons but anyways, what substrate is best, I'll get to petco and see the other stuff they have later and post what they have to see if it's ok.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Absolutely Wendy. No need to go crazy spending hundreds on plants ( like some of us, me included), But some money needs to be spent to give the frogs a proper environment. Certain things do go hand in hand. Live plants provide oxygen and utilize co2 along with nitrogen and other waste products keeping soil fresher. Live plants require proper lighting and a proper substrate. Using only coco fiber in such a humid environment, the plants will not survive as the roots will rot due to the fiber retaining too much water and it decomposes. 

I'm not suggesting you spend a ton, but you must consider the prices. roughly estimated you're going to spend 15 for a tank, 30-50 on plants, 8-20 on a piece of wood for climbing. 4-8 on a proper substrate, 10-25 on light fixture and cfl, about 10-20 on microfauna, 10-15 on a cut piece of glass for lid. 30-100 on the frogs. 25 on initial FF culturing setup, 5 leaf litter, 10-20 on supplements. Keep in kind this is bare minimum requirements. The larger the tank the more expensive it gets. On the low end it's over 150.00 on the higher end 300.00plus. Definitely a big expense worth giving good thought to. 

I don't want to come off rough. I just want you to understand the undertaking. I, as do all the other members and posters, just want you to have healthy frogs and we want you to derive as much joy from them as possible. I wish you the best of luck and please continue to ask questions. The only dumb question is the one that remains unasked.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

I know that they are pricy but I can take it, that's why I'm saving up, every one said to use coco fiber for a great stuff background but what would you recommend instead for soil?


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

There are tons of substrates available. Many dart froggers use ABG( Atlanta Botanical Garden mix). It's a precise mix of sphagnum, charcoal, coco fiber, orchid bark and a few other items. Many places sell it. I can PM you with the board sponsor I use. I don't want to slight any of the sponsors. 

I've heard of people mixing their own. Whatever you decide to use, make sure there isn't any fertilizers, or other chemicals to stimulate plant growth. These can be harmful to frogs.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

i prefer to buy a pre-made mic because i don't want to risk it so can u pm me the sponsor.


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## qdude46 (May 1, 2013)

I decided to start of this thread again, the breeder for my pygmy chameleon had some problems so I had to search for a few more months and I'm hoping the new year will help with my plans on a dart frog(s). Just so no one assumes anything, I by no means will buy the animal, put it in an ok enclosure and think it will eventually work out. I've been going around on care sheets and luckily a lot of the things I would I have to buy I already have for my chameleon. I have dusting power, soon ff cultures, left over neherp soil, a mister, and a few other things. All the help about vivs REALLY improved the chameleons viv. I'm still looking around at sponsors and luckily I have a plant nursery less than a quarter mile away with many great tropical plants along with the dart frog connection at every reptile show I go to so plants will be easy to find. I can't seem to find a good sheet on diet and nutrition so if anyone has info on food quantity and dusting, I'd really appreciate it.


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