# What frogs for me? (specifics inside, answer is not leucs)



## Warp (Jul 12, 2015)

I'm not new to herps or fish (or PDFs), but am new to doing it as a full blown adult in the age of the world wide web, so I'm kind of new to being informed and maybe not doing every other thing dead wrong.

I received a trio of D. Leucomelas froglets just over a week ago.
Slam dunk decision for the first. They are currently hanging out in a basic temporary 10 gallon awaiting the big move into an Exo-Terra 18x18x24 that is nearly ready for them. Pics at the end.

I want to start setting up a second viv in the next month or two (slightly more adventurous hardscaping this time, making my own background, etc, no water feature or anything complicated). 

What frogs should I most seriously consider?

Bold (I want to see them out and about as much as possible but they will be in the main/living room and we have a toddler, two big dogs, and two cats)
Good in a group (the more the merrier, and the better to have somebody out and viewable at any given time)
Hardy/novice level (I really don't want to screw them up)
Already have leuc froglets! 
Will use another Exo-Terra and can probably go as large as 36x18x24
Personality 
Frogs that also climb (like leucs lol) would be a plus but not required.

Possibles:

Phyllobates Terribilis: These are my front runner, big bold hardy and full of personality even if they won't be confused with gymnasts.
Dendrobates Auratus CR green black I think. Exactly how well do they do in groups and can I expect a group of the CR to be bold enough in my environment? 
Phyllobates bicolor, very similar to terribilis, 
Ranitomeya Amazonica, some of the morphs just look amazing but I don't think I want to do thumbnails at this point...not sure. 
Phyllobates Vittatus, kind of the same as above but these get a little bigger.

Recommendations on others I should look into?

How many of each of these fit very comfortably in a 36x18x24 that is set up by a novice? 




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The first group:










Almost ready to go here (pic taken just prior to mistking setup)









(The 18x18x24 is very basic, I just left the exo terra styrofoam background in, drainage/ABG/spag/leaf litter substrate, plants including broms about which I am clueless, some 'ghost' wood, magnolia seed pod, mistking starter, trying some live java moss on the main piece of wood, daylight CFL's, and I've seeded it with giant orange isos, dwarf purple isos, small white folsomia springs and large silver springs as well as white dwarf isos but that culture arrived in really bade shape due to summer Georgia heat)


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

If I'm not mistaken, P. Terribilis prefer lots of floor space, so I think giving them something 2 feet high is a little overkill. I was going to recommend the Auratus. 

If you'd like to try thumbnails, I suggest R. variabilis. Very group-friendly, love to climb, and very bold. They're also one of the more affordable thumbnails (definitely a quality you want to see on your first try keeping that kind of frog). From what I've seen, they're the perfect first thumbnail. I'm planning on getting a group of them for exactly that reason. For a tank the size you mentioned, a group of 5 should be okay. If you really want to be safe, you can even go with 4.


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## VPardoel (Apr 2, 2010)

How about the Epipedobates anthonyi ?










Bold frog, awesome colours, calls alot, and climbs all over the tank.
The only downside imo is that they breed really fast.
In our country they are seen as the ultimate beginner frog.
But im not sure about the availability in other countries


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## DartSolo (Sep 7, 2014)

Depending on your next layout, have you considered Azureus?


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm gonna step out of the box here on a normally recommended frog.
Have you looked into maybe Phyllobates aurotaenia.
Very cool little frogs that don't get the praise they should.
Semi small, group frog with a loud call and big personality


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## Warp (Jul 12, 2015)

If I decide unquestionably on Terribilis I may get a 36x18x18 but I don't think i can ever guarantee that from the time I acquire the viv to the time it is finished and seeded and gettin frogged I won't change my mind. Plus who knows what the future could bring so I figure the extra 6" of vertical space is better to have and not need. 

Regarding Azureus, it seems they are typically best kept in a pair as adults, not a group of 4-5 or more. I do like several of the Tinc variations but they all seem to be "best as a pair when adults" and not group frogs.


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

The Terribs are not as ungainly as you think and have a good jumping ability. When fed a prey item that climbs they will sit on the bottom of the viv. looking almost straight up then jump up to get a fly on a branch high above them. 

Auratus can be reclusive or bold; not a group frog though there are exceptions. 

The Bicolor are also a good choice though not as unflappable as Terribs. Think DeNiro in Taxi Driver, "You looking at me?".
I have kept Vittaus for a bit and they can be skittish at first but they are a prolific group frog with multiple calls and cool behavior. If you live near NYC I would give you some for free.


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## ZenMonkey (Sep 17, 2013)

I've had a group of 1.2 turquoise-and-bronze auratus for two years, my first and so far only frogs. (Life keeps getting in the way of another vivarium!) They are ridiculously bold -- as in "move your ass, I'm trying to trim this plant" -- and do well together except for when the females are pregnant at the same time. Then there's a little harassment. Otherwise they all get along fine and are constantly out and about.


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## Warp (Jul 12, 2015)

Man I really just can't make up my mind. I want to decide sooner rather than later so I know what size/height viv would be most appropriate, and what kind of hardscape/etc to go with. Can be 18x18x24, 24x18x18, or maybe 36x18x18. 

Ruled out thumbnails for the time being. 

*Finalists: * 

Tincs: Only a pair, have to pay more for an adult pair or get ~4 froglets, grow them out a bit, and sell 2...to only have 2 left. Not so bad I guess to only have a couple in the viv, but want more. Beautiful, hardy, bold. 

Auratus (green/black): Not convinced they'll be as bold as I want (or as bold as the leucs or the other finalists), especially as froglets or juvies and given their viv location. Can be stunning, inexpensive and widely available, can keep a group. 

Terribilis (orange): Not as aesthetic as the rest IMO and seem the least prone to climb or run around being active...but very bold and great in a group.

I'm really starting to lean tincs even though they aren't a group frog. I'm just seeing too much variability in the boldness of auratus, and the appearnce of many of the tinc morphs is like a four leg hopping version of a bright tropical aquarium fish.


Edit: Unrelated to the frog choice...when I was examining the substrate layer of the viv closely through the glass (watching springs and I believe detrivore mites) last night I saw, for about a minute, one of the dwarf purple isopods I seeded with. It's been at least two weeks, first I've seen since I dumped them in. Yes! Then today I was poking around in the leaf litter (rare) and a giant orange isopod scurried away from a leaf I picked up. Alright! lol what happened that I'm happy to see many lagged bugs running around?!


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## Map (Jun 24, 2015)

I'm fairly new to the hobby, but if you are leaning towards Tincs I'd say go with them. They're hardy like you said, and my Azureus only go into hiding in their regular sleeping spots each night, and are otherwise out and about all day. I've seen them climbing into the higher reaches of the tank often, the only time they seem to stop hunting is to poop or sleep.


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## Warp (Jul 12, 2015)

14 months later still only the one viv. Only hard part...not crashing FF cultures. 

Pic taken shortly after pruning some plants and adding leaf litter.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Your tank looks nice. If you are still thinking of another viv, I would always get a 24" high tank rather than an 18" high tank no matter what type of frog I was getting. The 24" tank offers you many more landscaping possibilities and possible plant selections. I feel like it gives me a better view of whats in the tank as well.


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## Warp (Jul 12, 2015)

phender said:


> Your tank looks nice. If you are still thinking of another viv, I would always get a 24" high tank rather than an 18" high tank no matter what type of frog I was getting. The 24" tank offers you many more landscaping possibilities and possible plant selections. I feel like it gives me a better view of whats in the tank as well.


Thanks. That is a good point, I'd have to crouch more when standing to see everything if it was shorter. And those plants really grow like mad, the wandering jew especially. They certainly fill up the height with ease.

I don't have another viv on the immediate horizon but I'd probably get some orange terribilis if so. Maybe a pair of Tincs if I wanted to stay with an 18x18 footprint...Terribilis would get something bigger. 

More close up


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## Frogs123 (Jul 10, 2016)

Can't go wrong with a few tincs!


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## asoules (May 4, 2015)

my powder blues are my boldest frogs. followed by my luecs. my aruatus are out often but hide unless they are eating. my p.vittatus reds are always under leaf litter. I think it kinda varies depending on their enclosure.


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