# Tadpoles Barely Growing Back Legs After a Month?



## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

Hopefully I'm worried about nothing, but I got a group of 5 tinc tadpoles a month ago. They were small, but they weren't _just_ out of the eggs. All were swimming actively, lost the fresh-hatched shape, etc. Educated guess, about a week or so old. They are now at least five, probably six weeks since emerging from the eggs.

In the month since they arrived, I've done weekly partial water changes (about 2/3 at a time, using spring water), replaced their chunks of almond leaves once, and fed them every couple days (as soon as I see their food has been eaten). They eat a combination of JF Tadpole Bites and tropical fish food. Between partial water changes, about every 2-3 days, I use a large pipette to clean out their waste. They're at "room temperature" in my kitchen, around 70° at the coldest at night, and around 80° for a short period once last week before I turned on the AC on a particularly warm spring day, averaging around the mid 70's.

All of them are at least double, if not at least triple, their original size, but so far only 3 of the five have immediately noticable back legs starting to develop, and the other two are just barely starting (only noticable from below if I look carefully). All of them eat, swim and poop, and swim really vigorously if disturbed by the pipette during maintenance. As far as I can discern, all of them look healthy, and none look abnormal.

From what I've read, darts usually take 5-7 weeks (35-45 days) to morph. Mine are around 6 weeks old, and definitely not even close. I've raised the tadpoles of other amphibians before when I was younger (mostly toads, several leopard frogs, a couple bullfrogs, and once pacific chorus frogs), and based on that, I'd say they're a bit past the halfway mark to emerging, judging by the amount of leg development. At that rate, they'd be popping front legs in maybe another 3-4 weeks from now, and emerging around 10-12 weeks after they originally hatched.

Should I be concerned, or has the internet lied to me about how long to expect dart frogs to take? Am I keeping them a little too cool, and inadvertently slowing their growth down? I know tincs are one of the larger dart species, so do they just take more time to grow than the "average" for dart frogs?


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## hansgruber7 (Mar 23, 2020)

I wouldn't be concerned. My tadpoles take months to morph. That's not unusual at all in my opinion. I think they morph a little slower in colder weather too. As long as they seem to be growing and swimming around and look healthy, they are fine. It can take a few months.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

My leucs take longer then 5-7 weeks. I've never raised tinc tadpoles but, that seems normal.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

That's reassuring to know. I'll just keep up feeding and maintenance, and be thankful for the extra time to grow out their viv.

At what stage should I start the FF cultures? When front legs pop? Before that? I already have springtails to feed with if someone emerges before cultures are ready for harvest (and the pet shop stocks melos if I really needed to get flies in a hurry), but I want to try and time my own cultures to be ready when they are.


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## hansgruber7 (Mar 23, 2020)

I think when the front legs pop is fine. But if you want to be extra sure, you can do it when the back legs are fully out. You'll probably waste a few cultures, but then you can be sure to be good to go when they emerge.


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

Tad morph out time has a lot of variables that can lengthen or shorten the duration, one example being temperature. Warmer temps tend to morph out frogs faster when other variables are the same. That being said I don't believe I have ever morphed a tad out in 5 to 7 weeks. Here is a pic of one of my tepu tinc tads, this guy went into the water on Jan 29th still doesn't have any legs but he is very large and healthy and I would say this is pretty typical in my experience. I have a lot of tads to pull data from (pictured) and every tad has the egg laid date, in the water date, and morph out date noted on the outside of their tad container. On average my morph out time is more along the lines of 3.5 to 4 months and that is pretty consistant within my collection/husbandry. 

One thing to keep in mind is that in general, slower morph out time results in larger more robust froglets.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

Well, something changed for my tadpoles... They seem to have accelerated development rather impressively in the last week. 

Their back legs have grown super fast. The three largest tadpoles' legs look nearly proportioned to their bodies (not quite, but definitely getting there), and two of them have visible bulges that I assume are the front legs developing under the skin pocket. Those two are also making a lot of trips to the surface to gulp air.

They're absolutely demolishing the food I put in; just two weeks ago it was 2-3 tadpole bites and four or five (very small) fish pellets twice a week, and I was removing a bit of leftovers at the next feeding/cleaning. They're completely consuming that much in less than 2 days now, so I'm probably going to move to feeding daily.

The smaller two tadpoles have caught up in size to the bigger ones, and their leg development seems to be about where the larger ones were when I first started the thread 9 days ago.

Still not seeing any coloration changes yet, but I think I'm going to go ahead and order those melos and the calcium powder this weekend. I'd rather have extra flies than be running to the pet shop for feeders because I wasn't ready.


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## hansgruber7 (Mar 23, 2020)

It could be that it got warmer. I find they develop faster when it's warmer.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

hansgruber7 said:


> It could be that it got warmer. I find they develop faster when it's warmer.


We definitely saw a temperature spike this week. It went from 60°F to 90°F outside, and while we do have climate control, it's running in the mid to high 70's indoors now, pushing close to 80 in the room where the tadpoles are. I'll probably need to move them to my bedroom where it stays consistently around 75° because it's on the north side of the house and doesn't get the heat gain like the south-facing kitchen (they were in the kitchen to stay warm because it had been chilly at night).


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

Daylight reveals some color changes on the three most developed tadpoles (I only took pics of two, but they're all about the same stage). While cleaning their water, I took advantage of the lower volume and better lighting to look from below, and I can definitely see their arms through the skin underneath their bodies. 

The least developed of the tadpoles only has back leg development visible from the side, not from the top. It is however the same size as the others and eating ferociously, so what started as the "runt" may ultimately morph out larger than it's earlier-developed peers.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

Glad I ordered my flies on Saturday, because today I got a surprise. The most developed tadpole popped front legs. Here's a pic I took while preparing to transfer it to the 32 oz container.









I'm so excited!!! First dart frog. I literally feel like a proud mom.

The melanogaster culture will arrive on Friday. I don't expect the little guy will be ready to eat before then, since he's going to be absorbing his tail first, but if by some crazy chance he's out of the water by then, I can feed him springtails.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

He's turning COLORS. So much more yellow than yesterday.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

I'm starting to see a blue tint on his back legs. A second tadpole popped legs today too.

I know I probably have a couple more days before the first one comes out of the water, maybe even a week if he decides he doesn't feel like being a "real" frog right away. Still cool watching him change. 

I've read that some dart froglets will go in and out of water for several days after first emerging. Should I consider putting a petri dish of water in the grow out for them to use during the first week or two after they come out of the water? Of course, I say a week or two, but since I expect emergence to occur over several weeks due to different growth rates, so maybe a month all together if the the petri dish was removed a week after the last tad comes out.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Yes, I leave the tad cup tilted at an angle in the growout until the froglet is clearly done with it.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

I got home, and the first froglet was sitting on top of the edge of his Indian almond leaf completely out of water.

The pic is terrible because the cup is both round and slightly opaque. 










He jumped back in immediately after I took the picture. I'll move him into the grow out tonight or tomorrow.

A fourth tad popped front legs (well, one front leg anyway) today too. The last one that had been so much smaller at the start is working on back legs still, but is actually bigger now than any of the 4-legged almost-frogs.


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## PersephonesChild (11 mo ago)

Ok. Here goes!










I'm going to let him settle in tonight, and tomorrow I'll see if he will eat some dusted flies. Once I see he's actively hunting, he can come out of the "playpen" (a lidded 2.5g aquarium) and go in the vivarium. 

Based on what I have read here, I decided not to put a bunch of stuff in the "newborn" nursery. Instead I put in a couple inches of boiled oak leaf litter and a shallow water dish with sloped sides that he can climb in and out of for a week or few.

I started a second culture yesterday from the one that arrived last week. I had ordered one that would be "ready to feed in 3-5 days", and as soon as I saw a fly boom I seeded a new culture so I could keep 2 going as an insurance policy. I figure even though there are only 5 baby darts, who cannot possibly eat that many melos, my fish will be happy to help dispose of the excess flies, and I don't want to risk a culture crash catching me unprepared.

I'm so glad I went with tadpoles instead of juvenile frogs. I probably wouldn't recommend it as a way to start out for someone who has never kept any exotic pets before, but it's been so exciting for me watching them grow. I've become so invested in these little guys too; I mean, I love all my pets, but it just feels really special when you can start them from little wigglers and nurture them into little frogs.


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