# In Situ - Amazonia Builds



## InSitu (May 3, 2021)

Hi Everyone!

People have been posting some amazing builds, and we thought it would be fun to dedicate a thread to the *Amazonia.* So, we'd appreciate your replies with your builds, and to show off your artistry!

We'll connect this thread to our home Sticky Thread, so it stays up where people can see it!

Bill/ In Situ


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Here's mine (yet again -- groan. ):









InSitu Amazonias


I built these up to give a couple of my Ranitomeya bigger digs. Just the hardscapes: A little more close up on one; substrate is Seachem Flourite (I like this more as a viv base than in a planted tank, I think), and a top layer of calcium clay: I siliconed the ghostwood to the glass...




www.dendroboard.com


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## jibby (Dec 17, 2020)

Mine is a work in progress. Love the tank, and I'll be adding frogs soon.


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## marky mark (Sep 23, 2020)

It’s certainly nothing fancy but I just finished my first Amazonia. I was inspired by socratics ranitomeya Amazonias no background and what not.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Thought I would cross post this. Two of my InSitu's builds (image is linked to the thread):




  






Duo InSitu builds


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## Matp75 (Jun 27, 2021)

Just finished my first one today for 4 philobates terribillis Blackfoot


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Matp75 said:


> Just finished my first one today for 4 philobates terribillis Blackfoot
> View attachment 302652
> View attachment 302653
> View attachment 302654
> ...


Is this just going to be a growout tank for them?

I don't keep Terribilis but from what @Fahad posts I wouldn't keep them in anything less than a 36x18x24" tank.


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## Matp75 (Jun 27, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Is this just going to be a growout tank for them?
> 
> I don't keep Terribilis but from what @Fahad posts I wouldn't keep them in anything less than a 36x18x24" tank.


Been told my many very experienced terribillis keepers/breeders that this is fine for them.
If it isn't down the road will upgrade them to a 36x18x18 I have several to set up up on a dedicated rack for that size

But thanks for the constructive criticism on my build


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Yeeeah


Matp75 said:


> Been told my many very experienced terribillis keepers/breeders that this is fine for them.


For what it's worth my take on it is based on observation of hundreds of frogs in different sizes and styles of enclosures. Your tank will absolutely provide the correct environmental parameters to keep the frogs healthy, but I draw a distinction between 'healthy' and 'thriving'. There are things you see in larger tanks you won't in a smaller one. I dunno, maybe I'm not experienced enough. 😆


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## Matp75 (Jun 27, 2021)

What are the differences you have observed. Specific to terribillis in a tank 12 inches longer and 6 inches shorter?
What are the things I won't see
Not being a smart ass I am asking for knowledge
What number of terribillis would you keep in 36x18x18
Granted I am new to frogs


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Matp75 said:


> What are the differences you have observed. Specific to terribillis in a tank 12 inches longer and 6 inches shorter?
> What are the things I won't see
> Not being a smart ass I am asking for knowledge
> What number of terribillis would you keep in 36x18x18
> Granted I am new to frogs


In larger enclosures that include multiple levels, obstacles, broken sightlines, overhead cover and some wide open spaces mixed in, I see more activity and more varied behaviour. The frogs appear to be more alert, interact with each other more, are more likely to display different hunting styles ranging from very active foraging through leaf litter and digging(!) to ambush and straight out chasing (I offer different types of prey) ... and generally appear more "fit" for lack of a better word.

In smaller enclosures I'll see a more limited range of locomotion and other behaviour, maybe because there are fewer opportunities for novelty, and maybe there's a threshold that triggers territoriality, I don't know -- we know little about this species in the wild due to the region's past history hampering study.

I've heard people call terribilis lazy or only active when fed, etc. -- but this is not what I see. The smallest enclosures I use for groups of 4 adults generally is 36" x 18" x 36" high -- they cover the entire tank, climbing right to the top and even scaling the planted background. This after hearing and reading about how this species won't climb or do so infrequently. They've proven to be more active and more athletic than anything I read or heard from many other keepers.

Unlike other large frogs (D. tinctorius) I've kept in the past, every now and then they just flip out with explosive movement, leaping over 30" forcefully and easily in any direction, scampering around like ... well, kind of like cats ... do they do all of this all of the time? No, but frequently enough for me to see there was more to them than I at first imagined.

I've begun work on getting 48" enclosures added to my frog room and we'll see if it changes further. Ultimately, down the line I'd like to do one very large tank based on everything I've learned from smaller builds and see what they do in there.

It's my opinion based on experiences with these frogs, that a 36" x 18" footprint is a minimum for 2-5 smaller adults, or up to 4 Mints; and based on watching them enthusiastically climb one metre high sometimes daily, I prefer that 36" minimum height, although for space conscious buyers I usually recommend a 36" x 18" x 24" minimum tank size. 

Mints tend to be larger and appear more aggressive than other localities, Blackfoot Orange and Yellow seem a bit smaller and a little less punchy, but individual temperaments vary.

I returned to keeping frogs after a long hiatus, but over the years past that I worked in the trade and kept many different species of reptiles and amphibians, the one constant for me was that they will continually surprise you, which makes sense given they evolved to deal with much larger and more complex environments than we provide them; there's a suite of instincts in there that's maybe more diverse than we think.

I had one cranky old herper accuse me of being 'touchy-feely' once because I always advocate for bigger enclosures -- well, no, I don't project human emotions on to reptiles and amphibians or make them wear tiny hats -- but I see them as marvelously evolved organisms that are more rewarding for our own entertainment, the more that we give them. I have decades of experience to back up that belief.

Depends on the species and the age of the individual animals of course. I wouldn't keep a neonate colubrid in a big naturalistic tank because that's not how you succeed with them, i.e. there's no 'one-size-fits-all' approach but in terms of healthy, adult reptiles and amphibians, I think bigger enclosures are almost always better for the animal and for the keeper.


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## Matp75 (Jun 27, 2021)

Interesting read. I am sure they will get upgraded in the future. I have kept and worked with reptiles since 1993 and agree bigger is usually better however I have seen wasted space in large I enclosures and well layed out enclosures while smaller work very well

I have this argument with bearded dragon owners often that say minimum size for them is a 4x2x2
I don't like to put juveniles in an enclosure that large. It's to much space and I find they stress over trying to find something ideal spots for themselves
Adults I feel 4x2x2 is ideal not min. 

But I get your point.
I have an 18x18x36 that I built for some ranitamaya amazonica I would like to at some point get a 36x18x36 and put them in the same wall

But for the time being over the next year I don't see any issue with them living in this Amazonia

Also btw if more people would explain their thoughts in the manner you did in your second post this board would probably have more than 3 posts a month 

Seems like there is alot of condescending attitudes in this forum


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Matp75 said:


> Interesting read. I am sure they will get upgraded in the future. I have kept and worked with reptiles since 1993 and agree bigger is usually better however I have seen wasted space in large I enclosures and well layed out enclosures while smaller work very well ...


True, hence levels, broken sight lines, overhead cover etc. etc.



Matp75 said:


> I have this argument with bearded dragon owners often that say minimum size for them is a 4x2x2
> I don't like to put juveniles in an enclosure that large. It's to much space and I find they stress over trying to find something ideal spots for themselves
> Adults I feel 4x2x2 is ideal not min.


Yeah, a lot of juvenile herps fare better in smaller tanks as they're easier to monitor, for one thing. A larger space for neonates and hatchlings doesn't equate to the same volume in a wild environment, to say nothing of wild mortality rates etc.



Matp75 said:


> But I get your point.
> I have an 18x18x36 that I built for some ranitamaya amazonica I would like to at some point get a 36x18x36 and put them in the same wall But for the time being over the next year I don't see any issue with them living in this Amazonia


It'll nail the parameters for drainage and ventilation; and baby terribilis can actually be shy so again, easier to monitor. I use 30" x 12" tanks as grow-outs for up to a year depending on the temperament of the frogs. Mints usually outgrow those for me faster by getting bigger and rowdier.



Matp75 said:


> Also btw if more people would explain their thoughts in the manner you did in your second post this board would probably have more than 3 posts a month
> 
> Seems like there is alot of condescending attitudes in this forum


Time can be a big factor; I'm actually usually pretty wordy in print to the point I'm surprised people read it all  but if I'm doing something else or working I really can't answer that way and tone can easily be misread.

To a newcomer this board can seem clique-y and condescending but that's maybe because:

A number of experienced keepers reached the same conclusions for baseline care; that can sound clique-y or like people patting each other on the back.
Burnout: boards like this see a lot of poorly cared for frogs due to either ignorance or honest mistakes, obviously people who are doing it right don't come here looking for help because they don't need it, so it's human nature to get a little burned out by seeing the same mistakes over and over.
Again, really hard to convey tone via text.
The advice given here is almost *always* conservative which can be interpreted as dogmatic, but it's meant to narrow possibilities for mistakes.
Like most endeavours, experience counts. Sometimes new keepers don't like being told they're not ready to do such and such thing, they get defensive, the responder gets aggravated, and things spiral. Seen that happen a lot.
I've met people from this board offline at expos or whatever, and spoken more casually with others. The vast majority of people here just want to see thriving frogs and get passionate about it, things can get misinterpreted.


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## Gadbery (Feb 14, 2020)

well mine is my first ever tank. wish i did the background diffrent. But have a second one in the garage for 2 years waiting for me to get approval for a second tank lol.



http://imgur.com/a/vY1Yrno


freshly planted


http://imgur.com/a/ZUd3i10


1.5 years later


http://imgur.com/a/m3eN7bT



unfortunately I added oak leaf creeping fig shortly after and failed to maintain it and it choked out a lot of my plants. So looking very bare now.


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