# "Killer ants could take a bite out of cane toad problem "



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Killer ants could take a bite out of cane toad problem - environment - 30 March 2009 - New Scientist

Any opinions on this?


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## atlfrog (Dec 31, 2006)

The only thing that I can see as a potential problem with this is that every time we introduce anything into a new into the environment that did not have the insect or animal previously regardless if it is found within the country they are introducing it, it still can have ill effects. Sometimes having to do a balance act to keep the ants under control vs keeping the toads under control. Essentially trading one problem for another. I assume and I know that this is bad to say, that these experts have researched this as an alternative method rather than a more evasion method that would pose a less potential problem in the long run. BUT we are in the right direction at least.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

atlfrog said:


> The only thing that I can see as a potential problem with this is that every time we introduce anything into a new into the environment that did not have the insect or animal previously regardless if it is found within the country they are introducing it, it still can have ill effects. Sometimes having to do a balance act to keep the ants under control vs keeping the toads under control. Essentially trading one problem for another. I assume and I know that this is bad to say, that these experts have researched this as an alternative method rather than a more evasion method that would pose a less potential problem in the long run. BUT we are in the right direction at least.


I completely agree with you and I don't see how introducing a new species will eliminate the problem completly.They have no gaurantee that these ants will dessicate the cane toad problem to the point where they are not a problem.In order for them to do this they would need very large colonies of ants. And how does introducing a new species not going to effect the balance of ecosystem, given it is already disrupted by the toads, but I thought the purpose of this idea was to restore balance. Hopefully they come up with a less intrusive method of dealing with the toads


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## timmeh69 (Jan 12, 2009)

did it not say boosting the numbers of indigenous ants?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

seems like an interesting idea. However I think the township initiative of cane toad roundups is a better answer than boosting ant numbers. The carying capacity of the ecosystem will only allow for so many. If it could sustain more, it probably already would be


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## swampfoxjjr (Nov 13, 2007)

Though I think this may provide one aspect of the overall strategy for control Bufo Marinus in Australia, as a Florida resident I am hesitant on the idea of yet another invasive species introduction. Also, and this is purely based on observation, where I am Bufo Marinus is primarily active at night. If the supposition is that the ants and toadlets must come into contact regularly to be viable this may pose significant problems for our domestic battle with them.

The hard reality is that only the toughest of our native fauna are holding there own against the fire ants and cane toads where our more sensitive native species are in flat out retreat. Our native species of diurnal Camponotus have enough of a fight on their hands to introduce yet another large, territorially aggressive diurnal ant into the mix.

Perhaps I am jaded by the ridiculous invasive disasters afflicting my hometown to consider further introductions as a viable solution. Personally I am not a supporter of the cultivation and release of the flies that predate on fire ants in South America for this exact reason.


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## dancjoseph (Nov 8, 2007)

It appears that they would try to boost the interaction between the native meat ants and the invasive cane toads through baiting... which could potentially cause the ants to migrate, but I don't believe they are introducing them anywhere. The concept is interesting, and at the very least they are looking at native species rather than introducing a different invasive species.

If it does happen, it would be interesting (though not necessarily good for the eco-system) to see how it worked and what the overall impact on the native flora and fauna would be.


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## swampfoxjjr (Nov 13, 2007)

dancjoseph said:


> It appears that they would try to boost the interaction between the native meat ants and the invasive cane toads through baiting... which could potentially cause the ants to migrate, but I don't believe they are introducing them anywhere. The concept is interesting, and at the very least they are looking at native species rather than introducing a different invasive species.
> 
> If it does happen, it would be interesting (though not necessarily good for the eco-system) to see how it worked and what the overall impact on the native flora and fauna would be.


Yes, I will ammend by saying my comments were specifically centered around this course as a potential domestic solution not that I think it has been suggested. I am just cautious of next steps should it be successful in Australia.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

SKINNER
Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.

LISA
But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?

SKINNER
No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.

LISA
But aren't the snakes even worse?

SKINNER
Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

LISA
But then we're stuck with gorillas!

SKINNER
No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

Enough said
Brian


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## dancjoseph (Nov 8, 2007)

swampfox, 

I wasn't responding to your comments, I was actually typing (Slowly perhaps... ) while you were; I didn't see your reponse until afterwards.

It does seem that their conclusions are based at least somewhat on the cane toad being diurnal and mosst of the native frogs being nocturnal, as the ants don't care what frogs they eat, as long as they have sufficient contact with them to kill them.

Obviously, if there were large enough numbers of ants this would pose a problem for any of the wildlife they encounter.

I would think that the way they would boost the ant populations would be somewhat naturally... through the extra energy from the toads they were eating (extra resources = extra ants) due to whatever methods they use to bait both frogs and ants into the same place.


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## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Intersting article!

I guess the next question is what do we do about the extra ants? Since there would be more food for them the ant populations WILL increase and that means they WILL spread. Im sure we could egineer a Frankenstein ant that simply dies or is not able to reproduce after so many generations but then what consequences will that hold? Seems like we open pandoras box whenever we tamper with nature too much...But atleast it's a start and we're tryning to fix our mistake.

Great Post


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I think an easier solution would to just derive products from cane toads-- overhunt them, like we do so many other animals. I read this in an article from Reptile and Amphibian Magazine by TFH, before the magazine it became out of print. Even if cane toads are overly plentiful-- look what happened to passenger pigeons.


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## atlfrog (Dec 31, 2006)

I have placed a few articles that have both sides of the arrangements that I thought was interesting, as I said earlier I more afraid of what the "end game" result is when introducing insect or animals species into an environment or promoting the existing populations. The greatest example here in the US, that kills many people in this country are the African Honey Bees. If don't know the story of them I have provided an article on that as well. Sometimes a "good" idea at first looks wonderful but what happens when it's a "bad" idea in the end.

African Honey Bees
The Africanized Honey Bee in the Americas: A Biological Revolution with Human Cultural Implications
Killer Bees - Africanized Honey Bees (DesertUSA)

Pros and Cons Examples:
Biological pest control: using natural predators, parasites, and diseases safely
biological control


I don't even want to talk about plant species that have invaded different parts of the world or even fish for that matter. It's all about the research and reasoning in the end that will help or destroy the world we know.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

timmeh69 said:


> did it not say boosting the numbers of indigenous ants?


I'm sorry I missed that. I rushed through it since I am at work. 

Anyways I still feel strongly against this method on the fact that it could affect the balance of the ecosystem.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Brain, you echo my thoughts completely, interesting article nonetheless. 
I just wanted to see everyone else's opinions on this, thanks all.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

but I thought that Australia viewed its bulldog ants as another pest. if they do take down all the cane toads now you've got a swarm of jumping flesh eating ants. sounds like a cheesy horror movie.

here’s another solution i once saw on TV... Birds learn to eat cane toads safely(ScienceAlert)
just a little way nature finds its way to balance some things out over time.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

stitchb said:


> Intersting article!
> 
> I guess the next question is what do we do about the extra ants? Since there would be more food for them the ant populations WILL increase and that means they WILL spread. Im sure we could egineer a Frankenstein ant that simply dies or is not able to reproduce after so many generations but then what consequences will that hold? Seems like we open pandoras box whenever we tamper with nature too much...But atleast it's a start and we're tryning to fix our mistake.
> 
> Great Post


Phorid flies are predatory to ants. Respective to which type of ant is the 'problem ant', there is a subspecies of fly that preys on them. The flies do not prey on all insects, just ants, and only the ants to which they are attracted---thus they are dependent on certain ant subspecies. It's a gruesome vid to watch how they work---saw it on YouTube.


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## elscotto (Mar 1, 2005)

earthfrog said:


> Phorid flies are predatory to ants. Respective to which type of ant is the 'problem ant', there is a subspecies of fly that preys on them. The flies do not prey on all insects, just ants, and only the ants to which they are attracted---thus they are dependent on certain ant subspecies. It's a gruesome vid to watch how they work---saw it on YouTube.


 I think you're using "subspecies" when you really just mean "species". Phorids are a family-level taxa of flies, with thousands of species and hundreds of genera, and very diverse life histories and resource use within the family (some feed on fungi, others detritus, others are parasitoids of bees or ants, etc.). 
I agree with Brian/Simpson's; it gets comical when we need to continue going through various trophic levels to try to find solutions to control mistakes we've made. 
Thanks to the OP for posting the paper.
-Scott


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

a better idea:

Birds learn to eat cane toads safely(Science Alert)

Tonight, I saw a documentary that showed crows eating cane toads. It's really cool how smart corvids really are.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

the probblem will be that if you introduce crows, they when the toad population is low they will start to go after native animals, plus aren't cane toads mainly nocturnal? crows are not.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

There are native species already in Australia. They are learning and teaching their offspring how to hunt cane toads without human intervention.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

oh ok, that is a great learn behavior, hope it works.


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## kingnicky101 (Feb 20, 2009)

If we introduce invasive ants that kill the cane toads they can be a potential threat to native species. I totally agree this is a bad idea.


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