# "red imitator"



## troy b (Mar 8, 2004)

hi,
reptile depot is advertising "red imitator". my quetion is this really red imitator or intermedius?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Red or orange imitator aka terapota... tho intermedius used to be known as that way back when. I saw some of the red imis at MARS earlier this year and really couldn't tell the difference between them and the intermedius... the red imi on their site looks more like a blue legged imi than a tera pota. Its something you'd honestly have to contact them about.


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## troy b (Mar 8, 2004)

thanks,
the picture they have posted have webing on the back legs, and intermedius (i believe) all have a pattern that goes with there backs. i'm interested in them but, i want to make sure that is what i'm purchasing.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

My main problem after seeing the picture is that the pattern on the frog is an intermedius pattern, especially the head which shows the "butterfly" pattern on the head characteristic of fantasticus and their intermedius mimics. My male intermedius shows similar patterning on the legs. Again, I saw some of these animals in person, and said at the time they are most likely intermedius, and I have one at home that looks like their "red imis".

Here are similar intermedius:
http://www.poison-frogs.com/images/intermedius1.jpg
http://amazingdartfrogs.com/images/016_jpg.jpg

Intermedius are variable - one of the things I like about them. My female is a more "classic fantasticus" cross patterned intermedius with orange markings on the legs similar to banded/yellow fants, while the male has a much more obsure back marking and blueish "netting" on the leg. They are both intermedius.

After talking with some people in chat the concensus seemed to be that these were just intermedius. They are definately not tera potas which have imitator markings (no butterfly on the head) but are orange on the body instead of green, and much more defined netting on the legs. Check out the tera pota pics in the AZDR froget gallery.

It might very well be just old name confusion and/or reptile depot just selling them as what they bought them as.


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## Goose (Jun 10, 2004)

There is also a pic up now on Reptile Depot site of "CB Intermedius" with a yellow back and blue legs, but the colors resemble more of a standard lamasi. Is it really an intermedius or a tera pota or neither?

Steven


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The colors aren't similar to standard lamasi, its the pictures (the standard lamasi are a bright yellow, no hint of orange). A 'red imi' next to one of their 'intermedius' did not show that much of a color difference, at least not the ones I saw.

The terapota imis look like their green imi pic, except the the green back markings are actually a bright orange. I linked some of AZDR's tera pots pictures in my last post.

Both of those pics look to be intermedius. I saw a stunning intermedius male at Frogday - a lighter orange with bright blue legs just like the one reptile depot has pictures of. A stunning variation in the intermedius - but very much intermedius.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2005)

D. i. intermedius is currently a subspecies of D. imitator which will probably not be recognized in the not-so-distant future. Going by current nomenclature there are indeed D. imitator 'red' as well as D. i. intermedius. Many people dismiss the possibility and lump them into D. i. intermedius. It is not a valid identification tool to go just by pattern ("fantasticus head" "banded" etc) as they are highly variable within even the offspring of one pair. There was an unreputable Canadian (definitely not Mark Pepper, this character has seemed to disappear) who was selling "cross" "double cross" "fantasticus pattern" etc many years ago as different forms. These were probably just the result of one single colony (he also sold one without a jaw). I have not looked at the pictures in question, but I wanted to clarify a few things.
j


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