# Pitcher Plants and Epiphytes



## matt119 (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi,

I have two plant questions. First are pitcher plants dangerous to dart frogs? Secondly what is the best method for attaching an epiphyte or bromeliad to the terrarium background? Do I need to do anything special to the roots? Thanks in advance for any replies.

Matt


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## moothefrog (May 16, 2008)

I asked this question a little while ago to.They said no pitcher plants are not safe and that you can drill a couple holes into the backround and tie it with fishing live or anything sturdy


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

I was told pitcher plants were fine. It probably depends on the variety (size of pitchers, etc).

I was also told they wouldn't do well in a viv though. I think I've lucked out with mine (it was already planted when I read the discussion). Mine is thriving and constantly putting out new pitchers. The pitchers are a little over an inch tall and about 1/4 inch wide at the top, a bit wider at the bottom.

I also have a butterwort planted. It's just struggling along and only surviving. I really need to remove it from the tank as it doesn't appear happy. I'm just afraid that outside of the viv I'll kill it outright.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I am thinking about trying a venus fly trap at some point. On a site I was reading the vivarium environment seems almost perfect for one and they stay small enough to not be a danger to my larger frogs.


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

From what I understand, Venus fly traps need a dormancy period and will not survive if they are not given one. There is also a picture I found on the net, maybe even posted here of a fly trap with a dead frog caught in it. Either way, I would not use them in a viv you plan on putting frogs in.


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## AlexF (Sep 26, 2007)

I have tried several pitcher plants in the vivarims and some have done great and others just die.

If a frog goes in it can walk out. I have a greenhouse with some large sarracenias and a local wild frog used to sleep inside one of the pitchers.

The nepenthes I have in the vivs still have small pitchers and the frogs don't fit into them. When these plants grow big enough to produce large pitchers they are usually too large for a viv.


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## matt119 (Aug 15, 2008)

Hi,

Thank you for the replies. I guess the answer really is it is more a case by case situation (size of frogs, size of pitchers etc.). I just loved the way they looked but I think I will at least wait until the frogs are a little bit bigger before I reconsider adding them. Do any of you attend the Hamburg, PA reptile shows? It is great talking with people of the same interests.

Matt


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

jion up and read this post and see the pics of just what a fly trap does , id bet my ass pitcher will do the same in time, the gentleman that posted these is a very experinced cp keeper and a freind of mine i can asure u there are not staged
craig 
http://canadart.org/dartfrog/viewtopic. ... it=flytrap


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## matt119 (Aug 15, 2008)

Wow Craig,

That got my attention. I am pretty sure at this point that if I do a terrarium with carnivorous plants I won't risk the lives of my frogs. Pretty scary.

Matt


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## LittleDip (May 20, 2007)

Good to know! I just picked up a venus fly trap plant over the weekend! :O


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## asplundii (Jul 15, 2008)

VFTs and pitchers are different in their modes of action and to assume that one would behave as another is slightly skewed.

As I just posted in another thread, in the wild frogs very often hang out in various of the pitcher plant types. I commonly find Hyla versicolor hanging out in the pitchers of my Nepenthes that I grow on my deck during the summer. In point of fact I have even had frogs "appear" in the lab weeks after I move the plants inside to the windows when the weather cools. And a major CP vendor in CA often reports on Pseudacris regilla hanging out in the pitchers of Sarracenia and Heliamphora. Just because these plants are capable of consuming some organisms does not mean they will eat anything and everything that comes by. If your frogs are able to climb into and out of film canisters then they should easily be able to climb into and out of a pitcher.


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## LittleDip (May 20, 2007)

Thanks for the information asplundii. :wink:


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## asplundii (Jul 15, 2008)

Karma is a weird beast.

Was harvesting seed pods from my bog last night and speak of the devil

You see him?









Closer now

























Just hanging out without a care in the world...


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

asplundii said:


> Just hanging out without a care in the world...


What you can't see...............he has no backs legs!

:wink: 

Sorry, just kidding, I couldn't resist. :twisted:


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## pilo0024 (Aug 22, 2006)

great pics. one problem i could foresee with VFT's in particular is that they are temperate, or at least the ones I know of. i doubt they'd do well in a viv. do you know of a tropical species?


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## Laxgoal100 (Sep 9, 2008)

I am pretty big into carnivorous plants and I have a bunch of different pitcher species. First off, a VFT wouldnt last more than a year or two in a viv because it needs dormancy. Also, the humidity is too tropical and it may start to rot. Better choices for CP's in a viv include nepenthes pitcher plants (until they become to large), tropical butterworts, or maybe drosera.


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## asplundii (Jul 15, 2008)

Lax is correct, things like VFT and the N. American pitchers (Sarracenia) won't do well long term in a tank set up because of their need for dormancy.

There are a number of Neps that would probably work for tank systems and if you are able to play around a little you could probably get Heliamphora and Cephalotus to work too if you are interestd in pitcher types. If you are looking for more variety then there are numerous other CP species that would also work in tanks.


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## Laxgoal100 (Sep 9, 2008)

personally, I would not reccomend fooling around with heliamphora or cephalotus in a vivarium because of their cost and specific needs. Cephalotus is very prone to root rot and can be VERY finicky. They also cost around 50 dollars. To produce healthy heliamphora and cephalotus pitchers very high light levels are recommended. You could try, but you might end up wasting a lot of money. Also, the root systems of these plants can become very large and tampering with them can easily kill them.


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## asplundii (Jul 15, 2008)

Hey Lax,

You are correct that Helies and Cephs have more specific needs but I did say in my prior post "if you are able to play around a little" and I stand by that. Considering the time and effort people put into these frog tanks with fake rock walls and false bottoms and recirculating pumps I really do not think it would take all that much more to get either a Heli or a Ceph to grow in tank if you put your mind to it.

Also, Cephs can and do grow very well under lower light conditions. In fact they seem to produce larger pitchers under lower light conditions. Case in point:










Grown in an undrained "bubble" in my kitchen window. Only gets 2-3 hours of direct light a day and that is about it.

I will give you that Cephs and some Helies are expensive but you can get many of the Heli species cheap these days and for people who will drop $50 for a frog the size of a thumbnail I am sure the idea of spending $12 on a plant is not so terrible. Plus, if you can get in touch with the right people you can sometimes get things in trade/as gifts. I do not have any spares right now but in the past I have given away numerous Cephs and Helies to people for nothing but the cost of shipping. Granted not everyone is like me but...


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## Laxgoal100 (Sep 9, 2008)

wow, that ceph is amazing for how its grown...


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## Laxgoal100 (Sep 9, 2008)

point taken you are right asplundii.


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