# Eco Earth as a substrate?



## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

So I pretty much got this dart thing down, only thing left is the substrate? I just want any feedback if this will work. I bought two bags of aquarium gravel to fill my ten gallon long, and I want to put some eco earth substrate on top of that? It's the compressed brick of coconut fiber that my local petco sells. And on top of that, I want to put some oak leaf litter. So I have:
1-2 inches of gravel
1-2 inches of coco fiber
leaf litter on top

sound good?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

The coco fiber will work....some people mix in orchid bark or jungle mix to the coco fiber to loosen up the soil and provide more aeration to the plants. However, I have set up a number of vivs with just coco fiber and they worked out just fine.

Many people put a barrier between their soil and drainage layer to prevent soil from working down into the drainage area....I've never done so and not had real issues with significant soil moving into the drainage layer. 

Good luck.

Bill


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## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

Thanks ^_^ And just a stab in the dark, do you know where I can buy leaf litter online?


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

If you happen to come by some tree fern fiber (don't pass it up), you may want to include that to the bottom layer of soil as well. One of my favorite amendments as it takes a good decade to break down.

As Bill stated most plants you will use can and will do perfectly fine with just a plain coco substrate but to aerate the soil a little will allow them to grow more efficiently, as well as faster and in overall better condition.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

black_envy said:


> Thanks ^_^ And just a stab in the dark, do you know where I can buy leaf litter online?


What kind are you looking for?


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

My very first viv has 100% cocco fiber in it, but I find it seems to retain too much moisture. Some of plants have perished in the last several months.

I have come up with a mixture I do in a Five gallon bucket:
(1) - Coco Brick (4 quarts of hot water per instructions)
(1) part equal volume of "Jungle Earth"
(1) part equal volume of "Jungle Mix"

This mixture makes a real nice substrate and REALLY lends to better drainage.

Good Luck!


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## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

DartMan said:


> My very first viv has 100% cocco fiber in it, but I find it seems to retain too much moisture. Some of plants have perished in the last several months.
> 
> I have come up with a mixture I do in a Five gallon bucket:
> (1) - Coco Brick (4 quarts of hot water per instructions)
> ...


Is that the entire substrate, or do you put that over some aquarium gravel/Leca? And if I take the plants out of their pots and stick them into some coco fiber/junglemix will they survive? My parents don't seem to think so. . .and I am looking for some oak leaf litter?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

You definitely need some sort of drainage layer, whether it's gravel, LECA (expanded clay balls) etc. below the soil layer so that the soil doesn't become saturated with water.

Finding oak leaf litter (or any other leaf litter) seems to be a hit or miss prospect. You may want to consider using long fiber sphagnum moss instead as it retains moisture well, keeps the substrate such as coco fiber from sticking to your frogs and in many cases will become alive and you'll end up with green moss.

You will want to remove as much soil as possibile from your plants without causing excessive root disruption prior to planting and also wash them well. This will remove a good deal of fertilizer and pesticide residue that might be in the soil. The only exception I make is in those cases where I've ordered plants from one of the vendors who specialize in raising plants for vivarium use and they have not used pesticides or harmful fertilizers in the process. Good luck.

Bill


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2006)

If you get the right plants, they'll live.


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

> Is that the entire substrate, or do you put that over some aquarium gravel/Leca? And if I take the plants out of their pots and stick them into some coco fiber/junglemix will they survive? My parents don't seem to think so. . .


I'm so sorry that I forgot to mention the drainage substrate!  

So far I've only constructed what would be considered small to med/small Vivs and therefore I have only used gravel. I use to buy it at pet stores, but now I just go to Lowes or Home Depot and by Pea Gravel. Its ALOT cheaper and it works great. Now, if I were to build a large viv, I'd definately use LECA. LECA will also work on small viv also, I just can't find it locally that's why I've never have used it in past.

As far as the plants go, YES they will grow in the coco mixture. Place the plants right into the coco mixture, not pots. I take my plants out of the pots and run them under water at the sink to get rid of the potting soil. You'll just be left with some striny plant roots. Then place them right into the coco mixture. Mom & dad, relax .... it'll work (provided you've selected the right plants and you have the right level of light). (editted)

If you're worried about what exact plants will do well for you, check out "Frogtofall" website: http://www.frogbroms.com 
He (Antone) sells plant packages for 10 gallon and 20 gallon viv set-ups. He's already done the home work for the plant selection, so you're most likely to be successful at it.

One last thing, what for light(s) are you using. That to will contribute to your success or downfall. (editted)

Good Luck and sorry for the confusion!


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## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

lol tis ok ^_^ 

Thanks for all the replies, I dunno where I would be without you guys! Especially you dartman, and I think I've this thing down lol

Oh and I using a converted fish tank (it's all I have to work with, my parents won't let me get a twenty gallon vivarium) ten gallons, with the light it came with, florescent.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2006)

You may want to pick up a 6500K rated fluorescent/CF spiral light - the light that came with the aquarium might not work.


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

As mentioned those 10 gallon lights are a little on the "light" side, no pun intended! :lol: 

If at all possible, go to Home Depot and buy one of the 8 1/2" Clamp Lamps (Utility Lamps). I just bought another one last night, $6.85. Then buy a double pack of 90 Watt Daylight Spiral Flourescent Bulbs. They are $8.97 per pack.

You'll have a GREAT set-up then!

Good luck and keep us filled on how you're making out!


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

For a cheap start.. try a pea gravel base (home depot) and then jungle mix on top of it. You can get it at petco or order it from herpsupplies.


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## SusannahJoy (Jul 3, 2006)

woah, wait a sec - dartman! is that really all the light you need? i've been using those very expensive hood lights with a repti sun 2.0 for my tanks, which is starting to cost me. those lights will keep the plants alive and everything?


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2006)

SusannahJoy said:


> woah, wait a sec - dartman! is that really all the light you need? i've been using those very expensive hood lights with a repti sun 2.0 for my tanks, which is starting to cost me. those lights will keep the plants alive and everything?


Yep. Well, depending on tank size one might need a higher wattage CF.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I use those kinds of cf spiral lights n my tanks; they work great, and the broms color up nicely after about a month. Personally, I prefer the higher wattage ones (135w or so) from Walmart. Plants and dart frogs dont need (according to most) UVA or UVB rays in the quantities provided by the reptile UV bulbs, but hey, they cant hurt. Ive read articles from people noting marked improvements in the colors of their frogs after using UVA/UVB lamps, but at the same time Ive talked to breeders who've ben doing dart frogs for years with just normal cool white flo lights, and their frogs are doing great. I believe the line of thinking for justifying this is that the forest canopy absorbs the vast majority of UVA/UVB in the wild.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Check out:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14176



> woah, wait a sec - dartman! is that really all the light you need? i've been using those very expensive hood lights with a repti sun 2.0 for my tanks, which is starting to cost me. those lights will keep the plants alive and everything?


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

Screw in spirals are great, do some checking around here. You'll see a lot of guys using them.

We use them, but I also use other lights as well. Our problem is that we have a real mixture of lights and no real standard set yet. 

If you're doing a 10 gallon vertical and you use a dome you're only going to be able to use one dome. If you're using a 10 gallon horizontal you're going to use one and maybe two, depending on wattage of bulbs, plant selection, temperature rises, etc....

Good Luck!


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

I've been searching around trying to find you a viv on here that clearly shows a dome on top and how the viv looks plant-wise.

Here's one link, scroll down until you find pics of this guy's desk in his bedroom: http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=45

Looks pretty nice to me! 8)


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2006)

i was snooping around in the garden section at meijers, trying to find orchid baskets...(no luck) and saw what they called a "grow light" it looks like a basking light, but suposidly makes the plants grow better, it doesnt say anything on it about uva/uvb, but it was only 8 bucks, so i bought it. ill let you guys know the exact brand and how it works, if it does. 

nick


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