# How to create stunted melano fly cultures



## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Just thought I would post my little trick....

About 2 months ago I was messing around (ie. being lazy) and decided to try making cultures using Josh's Frogs media without boiling the water used in the cultures (since Black Jungle culture media only requires cold water I figured I would give it a go). Well, I'm on my 4 generation now, and it is still working. By switching to cold water at the same media:water ratio I've found that you can produce cultures with stunted flies but which last the normal length of a culture (as opposed to waiting until the end of a culture for the remaining stunted flies). While I've switched to using the normal method (as recommended by Josh) for my standard cultures, I've now continued making these stunted cultures for my froglets and they have proved a great success for feeding the legions.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Are you serious? It would be VERY helpful for increasing the survival rate of my mads!


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

What is it about boiling the water that makes the flies grow normal size?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Rain_Frog said:


> Are you serious? It would be VERY helpful for increasing the survival rate of my mads!


Yeah, not sure why or if there are any nutritional implications, but I've been getting incredibly small melanos from cold mixed cultures (which still last the normal length of a culture).

However, I should add that they don't produce as much up front as a standard culture (ie. a huge initial boom, though its still a ton of ffs)....but still a good sustained amount.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

The only reason Josh's uses boiling water is to desolve the mold inhibitor.....Form what I have read on his site and his video....


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Azurel said:


> The only reason Josh's uses boiling water is to desolve the mold inhibitor.....Form what I have read on his site and his video....


I think he also wrote somewhere on here that the boiling water is for ease of mixing - I wonder if cold water will produce stunted flies for other mixes?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Not sure, although I mix both the same way, they do end up looking different. The initial depth of media used by the ffs in the cold water cultures is also less than that in the standard cultures. Also, temps for both types are identical.


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## Parkway Drive (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm curious how much smaller these flies are than in normal cultures?
Thanks


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Both the wingless and gliders are coming out very small, about half the size of a normal wingless, some smaller.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Maybe it has to do with the rate of yeast production in the culture and the amount of food the maggots end up with---thus if they have less available food before morphing, they will be forced to morph out smaller. I think similar results might be possible by overloading a culture with flies from the beginning.
Thanks, I'll be trying this.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

I was just thinking the same thing as I was reading this. The warm water activates the yeast and would provide more food.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i use Josh's media to make cultures, and with me it really does not matter if i use cold or hot water with them, the flies still come out to be the same size, what i have noticed is that it really depends on how much water is added to the culture.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

BUMP for more people's experiences? Anyone else have any techniques for producing smaller flies also?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

you should see the size of the ones im getting, about tropical springtail size and less, granted from older cultures.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah I use frozen power mix (it is boiled when it's made though) and also if I mix a Carolina type mix with hot or cold water doesn't really seem to produce small flies


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Hey Ray is this still working to produce smaller flies for you?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Yup, it's how I'm feeding all the pums, escudo and anthonyi.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Like Julio said, do you use less water in those or something or how much?


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## Ulisesfrb (Dec 8, 2008)

I make my own mix and have always used cold water. I'm getting regular sized melanos. I get stunted at the end of the culture life, nothing sooner.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> Like Julio said, do you use less water in those or something or how much?


Same amount water as normal, just get much smaller ffs using cold instead of hot water. Size clearly decreases even more with culture age. Probably limits nutrient intake.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stemcellular said:


> Same amount water as normal, just get much smaller ffs using cold instead of hot water. Size clearly decreases even more with culture age. Probably limits nutrient intake.


Yes as conditions deteriotate in the culture, the nutrition for the larva changes which impacts the size of the adults (keeping the cultures at different temperatures can also change the size of the flies) 

See for example Cambridge Journals Online - Abstract 

http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/146/3/881.pdf

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


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## tim13 (Feb 1, 2011)

The true test would be to try the cold water with a hydei culture.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

If you keep a lot of melangaster cultures going, don't you always have older, runtier cultures around to feed to the wee ones? I only start new cultures from young boomers, so I was wondering if anyone had success culturing the runts directly? They're actually a little too small for most of my frogs, though.

Take care, Richard.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

i use josh's frog mix and i have not noticed any change in fly size using different water temps. i usually use room temp. wish i had some smaller flies, my new intermedius seem to be having trouble taking my melanos. Maybe because they have wings? I swera they used to be stunted wings, but now they seem to be funtional size. i've been running the same flies for like two years, would they start to grow full wings in that time? possibly due to conditions? Seems to be the opposite of what you are saying though, instead of stunted flies mine grew wings


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