# Pretty big histrionicus clutch



## ChrisK

They were courting all day today then all of a sudden quiet so I took a peek in.......... it was pretty hard to get a good pic of it because of where it is -


----------



## Jason DeSantis

Very nice! Looks to be about 15-20 in that clutch. Can we get some pics of the parents?
J


----------



## stemcellular

Nice Chris! These the red heads?


----------



## nathan

That is AWESOME 

Hope a ton of them make it -Good luck!


----------



## Topete

Amazing!, is this the first clutch?


----------



## jeffr

Awesome Chris, congrats!!


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah it's one of the red head pairs, this is their second clutch that I saw so far but the other was nothing like this one - hard to get clear pics of them since it's not a front opening tank so the colors are all washed out because the pics are all through glass:

female:









male:


----------



## frogandtoad

Now, if only they learn how to take good care of their tads...then you'll be set! That's awesome news Chris!


----------



## fleshfrombone

Well done sir! I hope we see more of these guys in the US hobby!


----------



## SmackoftheGods

Congrats! It's good to know that at least a few people are having success with these guys.


----------



## poimandres

Wow, this is awesome news. Congrats! These are some of my favorite frogs.


----------



## Mworks

Good news Chris - fingers crossed for you!

Regards
Marcus


----------



## Eric Walker

that deserves a WOO HOO! great job


----------



## JimO

Those are cool looking frogs - congrats.


----------



## Bob Fraser

Smoking pull them thru Chris, I know you can do it!


----------



## Julio

pretty sweet, we need more of those in the hobby for sure.


----------



## stevenhman

Congratulations!! I hope they are good parents!

Did you do anything to induce breeding? I think I remember reading something on your histo post about the guidance from a European frogger about the dry/wet season; I think it was something like "mist 3 times a day for 3 months for 'dry' season then 7 times a day for the 'rainy' season"? Something like that anyways. Hopefully your luck continues!!


----------



## catman25

taking names for froglets lol .... or is it to soon to jinx it ? very beautiful frogs!


----------



## slipperheads

One of my Favorite frogs, congratulations!


----------



## ChrisK

Really I didn't do anything out of the ordinary, one of the more successful people breeding histrionicus says that he really doesn't mist much, I might try wet and dry seasons though, maybe it was one of Marcus' posts you saw. They were courting again this morning before I went to work, I guess I'll see if they went at it again


----------



## Mworks

Must be that time of year Chris - both my females are laying but the male hasn't sussed what his job is yet! He just wanders around quacking like crazy driving both females mad with desire.

Soon hopefully!

Regards
Marcus


----------



## ChrisK

Today:


----------



## Julio

nice to see they are fertile, keep them coming!!


----------



## ChrisK

Male staring at the tads like he does constantly sometimes, would like to see the female really doing it more often.....


----------



## Julio

guarding his clutch!


----------



## jeffr

Way to go Chris!! So you think these are more seasonal breeders?


----------



## ChrisK

jeffr said:


> Way to go Chris!! So you think these are more seasonal breeders?


Can't really tell yet but maybe influenced by air pressure, humidity etc (like seasons)


----------



## Julio

Chris, these were pretty small when they came in so i am pretty sure they were CB.


----------



## jeffr

ChrisK said:


> Can't really tell yet but maybe influenced by air pressure, humidity etc (like seasons)



So this clutch is the 1st since that one egg??


----------



## ChrisK

jeffr said:


> So this clutch is the 1st since that one egg??


No the single egg was from the other pair, this pair laid a clutch of about 5 bad eggs once before


----------



## ChrisK

Thanks.

OK so I looked into their tank this morning before going to work and it looked like the female was following the male's lead - she was on that brom leaf staring at the tads, so I grabbed the camera to snap a couple of pics, did it with flash since their tank light doesn't go on until I get home from work, snapped a couple of pics and walked away. I then looked at the pics on the camera, and with the flash, there seemed to be something tiny and shiny reflecting light on her back, so I zoomed in on the area......


----------



## JimO

That's not fair leaving us in suspense like that.


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah I'm gonna post the pics when I get home tonight


----------



## JimO

ChrisK said:


> Yeah I'm gonna post the pics when I get home tonight


Can I assume that it is good news? I was afraid you saw some kind of lesion or something else bad.

There should be some kind of penalty for keep your fellow froggers, who have followed your progress with such dedication, in suspense for nearly an entire day!


----------



## ChrisK

No it was definitely good news and I'm sure you can deduce what it is; female hanging out near the where the tads are, something small on her back......


----------



## JimO

ChrisK said:


> No it was definitely good news and I'm sure you can deduce what it is; female hanging out near the where the tads are, something small on her back......


Very cool...


----------



## rmelancon

Unfortunately the joy you experience from seeing these great looking clutches will soon turn into despair 

I'm of course kidding, but only half-kidding. If they do not raise any on their own, pull a clutch and try raising one or two on your own, harvesting these big clutches for food. Only do a couple as it is tempting to try to raise the entire clutch, but finding enough eggs for 10 or so tads is going to be difficult, even if you have a large collection. Use as many eggs from the parents as possible, next in line is pumilio or other obligate egg feeder eggs, then tincs, auratus, etc.


----------



## ChrisK

Just the person I was looking for  If shes transporting, is she likely to continue with the care? And if not, are pumilio (besides bastis) good surrogates? Like you said, it's probably gonna be hard to find enough eggs around to feed for months.


----------



## frogparty

Im really hoping they care for their own! I know that they most likely will not care for all the tads in a clutch that size, but at least a few would be awesome. I wish you the best of luck. Such awesome frogs


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah it looks like only about 5 made it to tadpole, so hopefully she can keep up with most of them


----------



## frogparty

I can't speak for obligates but thumbnail froglets parent raised for me seem to have better color, even if I feed a diet to tads with diverse xanthins. Can I get on a wait list?


----------



## ChrisK

Well lots of people already contacted me for trades and a wait list, like I said there's only maybe 5 tads


----------



## stevenhman

I bet you have had plenty of offers! Hahaha. 

I will probably wait quite some time til I try a rare frog like this. Hopefully they are still around! Maybe lighting some candles and playing Barry Manilow real softly will keep them in the mood!


----------



## rmelancon

ChrisK said:


> Just the person I was looking for  If shes transporting, is she likely to continue with the care? And if not, are pumilio (besides bastis) good surrogates? Like you said, it's probably gonna be hard to find enough eggs around to feed for months.


It really depends on the species and the individual frogs. I have a pair of sylvaticus that I have seen transporting a couple times but never any froglets. So transportation doesn't necessarily guarantee success but it is another step in the right direction.

If the pumilio are good parents, they should be good surrogates. I've only used bastis in the past because they were the best parents, but I currently have a sylvaticus being raised by an El Dorado. Also my only successes with surrogates so far have been pumilio raising other pumilio which was near 100% success rate. So far with sylvaticus and histrionicus raised by pumilio, I have yet to morph a healthy froglet, though the number of tads tried is a lot less than pumilio.


----------



## ChrisK

I wonder if that hints at a nutrional issue with the pumilio eggs, possibly because of a size difference in the frogs? I would be really curious to find out how the froglet being raised by the El Dorado turns out, since one of the things I like about El Dorados and Bri Bris is that they remind me a lot of sylvaticus


----------



## ChrisK

Here it goes, like I said I almost missed it because I was just snapping pics of what I thought was her just staring at the tads like the male was doing - noticed it when I saw the little sparkle on her back when I looked at the pics on the camera (click on it to make it bigger):


----------



## JimO

I had to put my glasses on - it blends in so well. If I'm not mistaken, the tail is to the right of the sparkle behind the right shoulder. Is that correct? That's an outstanding photo, especially since you got just taking a few quick shots. I could set up something elaborate and not get a shot that clear. She's a beautiful frog.

Good luck and congrats!


----------



## frogface

It's tiny but I see it! Congratulations


----------



## poimandres

Where's Waldo?

I found him! 

Congrats Chris, really this is fantastic hopefully this is the first of many.


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah it's like halfway between her front and back legs on the right side and the tail is to the right of the body, kind of breaking up one of her yellow stripes

OK circled it for ya:


----------



## billschwinn

Congrats on your progress with these! I had a pair in the late 70's early 80's for several years, always a favorite of mine, Bill


----------



## ChrisK

Thanks Bill, yeah I had some years ago also but unfortunately they were all male


----------



## AlexRible

Thats awesome chirs, congratulations!


----------



## Brien

Nice Chris good job. Hope they get to froglets best of luck


----------



## Jarhead_2016

gratz dude hope everything goes well
-scotty


----------



## ChrisK

They're at it again - 

Sorry for the bad quality and glass glare but it was just now so I snatched my digital camera and started recording

I didn't think she was gonna go for it since she's feeding tads

YouTube - Histrionicus Courting

He kept quacking and I thought nothing of it till I turned around and saw she followed him up into that leaf

YouTube - More of Histrionicus courting


----------



## Brien

Nice good luck


----------



## stevenhman

I can't wait to see some little froglets! Excellent videos.


----------



## ChrisK

Well it didn't come out so well because of the glare on the lid but there's a little teaser at the end of the first clip of one of the tads in the center axil of the brom


----------



## JimO

That is really cool.


ChrisK said:


> They're at it again -
> 
> Sorry for the bad quality and glass glare but it was just now so I snatched my digital camera and started recording
> 
> I didn't think she was gonna go for it since she's feeding tads
> 
> YouTube - Histrionicus Courting
> 
> He kept quacking and I thought nothing of it till I turned around and saw she followed him up into that leaf
> 
> YouTube - More of Histrionicus courting


----------



## stevenhman

ChrisK said:


> Well it didn't come out so well because of the glare on the lid but there's a little teaser at the end of the first clip of one of the tads in the center axil of the brom


Ahh! Nice! I didn't watch til the end the first time. Do you know how long it takes for them to morph out? I'm interested to see if/how their patterns change as they grow up. That is if you ever get to see the little buggers.


----------



## sbreland

Damn, hope this isn't bad news. I now that seems like an odd comment but you know as well as I do that the problem with histos is getting them to feed all the way through and if she's already responding to calling again I hope that means she hasn't forgotten her duties already... good luck.


ChrisK said:


> They're at it again -
> 
> Sorry for the bad quality and glass glare but it was just now so I snatched my digital camera and started recording
> 
> I didn't think she was gonna go for it since she's feeding tads
> 
> YouTube - Histrionicus Courting
> 
> He kept quacking and I thought nothing of it till I turned around and saw she followed him up into that leaf
> 
> YouTube - More of Histrionicus courting


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah that's why I was kinda glad that no eggs were laid, there's time for that later


----------



## ChrisK

Their patterns do change as they grow but not too much, probably the same as any other spotted frogs. Same morph out time, couple of months


----------



## stevenhman

Would removing the male from the tank help with her not feeding the tads? I'm sure someone has already tried this?


----------



## ChrisK

Well she's pretty on top of it so far, if they start breeding then I might take him out and put him in with some other females


----------



## rmelancon

stevenhman said:


> Would removing the male from the tank help with her not feeding the tads? I'm sure someone has already tried this?


This would be a good idea except for the fact that they are histrionicus. For whatever reason, in my experience they don't often respond well to a change of tanks. Once they are setup and happy and breeding I go to great lengths not to change anything or pull frogs unless absolutely necessary. If I do have to move animals I make sure they go into a completely setup tank that has not been inhabited by any other frogs. I have thought about doing this on several occasions and I think the only way I would do it is if I cound somehow have a built in divider in the tank that I could put in and take out to separate them.


----------



## ChrisK

OK, scratch the male relocation idea


----------



## stevenhman

rmelancon said:


> This would be a good idea except for the fact that they are histrionicus. For whatever reason, in my experience they don't often respond well to a change of tanks. Once they are setup and happy and breeding I go to great lengths not to change anything or pull frogs unless absolutely necessary. If I do have to move animals I make sure they go into a completely setup tank that has not been inhabited by any other frogs. I have thought about doing this on several occasions and I think the only way I would do it is if I cound somehow have a built in divider in the tank that I could put in and take out to separate them.


Wow. Interesting! 

Maybe the presence of another male in the same territory (within hearing, not same tank) does something to trigger the hanky panky forget your kids? Maybe the additional male within hearing stimulates some kind of territorial breeding display to keep the original male's mate?

I'm definitley no expert. Just making some semi-educated guesses.

*edit*
Sorry if my questions/ideas are a pain in the butt.


----------



## ChrisK




----------



## Mworks

Well done that frog!!!

Regards
Marcus


----------



## Enlightened Rogue

(trouble maker)

John


----------



## nathan

Looking great ! cant wait to see pics of it morphing


----------



## ESweet

Well done and bravo!!!


----------



## costaricalvr12

Awesome! Any more updates?


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah that one has some back legs now, no pics yet of them though


----------



## ChrisK




----------



## bmore

awesome! hopefully there will be more where that came from!


----------



## ChrisK

Thanks, couple of different angles:


----------



## ChrisK




----------



## fleshfrombone

Sweet sweet front legs. Thats awesome man!


----------



## Brien

Good job man!!!


----------



## james67

lookin good!!! 

james


----------



## stemcellular

well done!!!!!!


----------



## poimandres

Awesome , awesome, awesome!

Chris, 

Great shots. Did you get lucky with their deposition or do you have the viv set up so that you can see into all the bromeliads?


----------



## jeffr

He got lucky


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah, I think there are some in there that I can't see still


----------



## frogface

Yay! Thanks for the pics!


----------



## JimO

Outstanding!


----------



## ChrisK




----------



## james67

lookin REAL good chris. i hope you got microfauna out the @ss 

james


----------



## Julio

pretty sweet Chris!!


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah it's freaking me out, thought it would be another month but it's like trying to get outta the water NOW - might need to pick up a couple of cultures extra


----------



## stemcellular

too cool, Chris. some very welcome updates, keep up the fantastic work.


----------



## DCreptiles

wow very good work chris.. im gonna have to come over sometime and take a peak.. and i got springs out the wazzoo w.e you need.


----------



## cheezus_2007

all i can say is wowzerrrrrrr lol. Congrats on that lil beaut


----------



## frogandtoad

Well done little Tad!  He has a good pattern to him already. The arms and legs look nice and strong on him too. Cool.


I think it would be pretty funny if a few more popped out of the broms that you didn't even know about...


----------



## ChrisK

Thanks, in one day the tail is almost gone and he keeps sticking his face out of the water, there's a size comparison and the male looks pretty proud of his work there  in the second pic of them together you can see the bubbles the froglet is always blowing, in the earlier pics all those bubbles on the surface of the water were from it


----------



## Mworks

Stunning Chris - hopefully with many more to follow!

Regards
Marcus


----------



## ChrisK

Thanks, yeah we gotta get that international shipping network going 
seems like there's a major difference in the pics from yesterday to today's pics


----------



## jeffr

Wow that tail went fast!! One day! He'll probably be out sometime tomorrow


----------



## stemcellular

Nice work, Chris. And raised by his real parents to boot!


----------



## ChrisK

Still seems a little unsure about being out or in....


----------



## Julio

i see he is reluctant to leave the brom


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah could be because of the monster with the camera


----------



## Brien

Is their just one? Also is that old eggs still in the water from when they was laid?


----------



## ChrisK

There's more than one in there at different stages, those are ff's isopods etc the eggs were laid on a lower brom leaf. Female feeds like 4 or 5 eggs at a time for a single tad though


----------



## Brien

If you dont mind me asking did you do anything different with them to induce breeding.


----------



## Enlightened Rogue

Man, I LOVE that little guy!
It`s like we`re all pulling for him.

"c`mon it`s ok, you can come out- no one will hurt you''
Awesome.

John


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah this morning he was by the side edge of the leaf just hanging out there, while the male was chasing the female around calling. Maybe he'll be out totally tonight


----------



## ChrisK

Sorry for the quality but it was through the glass and on a lower brom leaf with less light, but you get the idea -


----------



## thedude

amazing chris, nice job! any others in there close to coming out?


----------



## ChrisK

Thanks, not that I can see but there are some tads getting big in there


----------



## Enlightened Rogue

Nice work buddy!

John


----------



## ChrisK

Thanks just my luck, right after I took the pics he jumped out of the dark brom leaves for the first time like gangbusters and started hunting like a madman


----------



## billschwinn

Very nice!


----------



## Mworks

Hi Chris,
it will be interesting to see how the pattern develops - at the moment it looks like large blotches. I wonder if these will eventually 'split apart' and grow?

Regards
Marcus


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah I think they'll turn more into spots, also the red seems to be going down the back so I wonder if that's how it will color up or if it will go more towards the head


----------



## Julio

pretty cool, i see he is still hanging by his brom axil


----------



## ChrisK

Well the one he was raised in is the one on top of that leaf with the ff's in the water in the first two pics, he's been going from leaf to leaf for the last day or so


----------



## mcadoo

Wow! Great job. Congrats!


----------



## ChrisK

Someone wanted to see a clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPVZwfYQfF8


----------



## Link3898

Sweet video! and congrats on the healthy froglet  hopefully there will be many many more where that came from!


----------



## frogandtoad

Thanks for posting a video of the lil guy. It looks like he's doing great so far...hopping around like he means business.

Hopefully that pair will continue to be successful for many years to come.


----------



## ChrisK




----------



## jeffr

I like the pattern on him. Is his head red yet? From the pic it looks like its around the top of its eyes


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah mostly around the eyes


----------



## rmelancon

Looking good, you will be tempted, but don't pull them early.


----------



## ChrisK

rmelancon said:


> Looking good, you will be tempted, but don't pull them early.


Yeah I'm keeping the froglets in the parent tank for at least six months, what length of time has worked best so far for you?


----------



## Ulisesfrb

This is awesome Chris. I'm so freaking happy for you and those proud parents. Keep up the good work.


----------



## sports_doc

ChrisK said:


> Yeah I'm keeping the froglets in the parent tank for at least six months, what length of time has worked best so far for you?


I can tell U what doesnt work... 4 weeks.....


----------



## ChrisK

Through the glass again, now about pumilio sized. Going after some phantom fruitflies instead of the easy ones.............


----------



## rmelancon

ChrisK said:


> Yeah I'm keeping the froglets in the parent tank for at least six months, what length of time has worked best so far for you?


I wait until just before I can't tell them apart size wise from the adults. And then I move them into a tank that is fully setup and that hasn't had any other frogs in it.


----------



## EricM

Rob,

What do you do if there are successive generations of froglets growing up in the tank at the same time? Do you leave them all in until they are about adult size or do you remove the eldest ones? 

One of the most interesting things about histrionicus is that they grow big and fast once they start eating insects, by the fourth month they are nearly half the size of the adults.

Thanks
Eric


----------



## rmelancon

EricM said:


> ... What do you do if there are successive generations of froglets growing up in the tank at the same time? ...


I haven't been that lucky. Most of the time I get two or three at a time and there are pretty big gaps between froglets morphing out. If I had that situation I would maybe pull them at about 3/4 grown, again making sure I had a good setup for them and not just throwing them into a 10 gallon tank by themselves.


----------



## ChrisK

Yeah that was a question I was going to ask too, there are others in there coming out soon so I was worried about overcrowding - hopefully it doesn't get too territorial in there. Does anyone else notice that they morph out pretty quickly also?


----------



## ChrisK

Water was dirty with dead ff's in the center axil so it was hard to see into and I didn't see this one flipping around in there for a week or two now, so I didn't think it was still in there especially since she's feeding other tads:


----------



## frogboy

Nice i wish i could get some of those.


----------



## ChrisK

Male with the froglet that morphed 2 months ago - pretty crazy. I remember Matt writing something on Frognet about an auratus reaching almost adult size within 3 months of morphing raised on his clay substrate recipe - his recipe is in this tank so I wonder if it's related?


----------



## fleshfrombone

Great job Chris! Those are such cool frogs.


----------



## Julio

i know a few people that have morphed histos and they all say that the froglets have pretty tremendous growth after they leave the brom and raised on substrate other then clay.


----------



## frogparty

Pretty awesome to see your success! We will have a nicely established cb in the usa population sometime soon. I would love to get some one of these days


----------

