# Tads dying before emerging from egg



## Justin Bailey (Jul 23, 2009)

So, before I begin attempting to breed darts again, I want to clear up this issue vefore I hapoen to run in to it again. I had eggs that would develope all the way until it was almost time to emerge and then they would just die? Anyone have this happen as well?

Thanks
-Justin


----------



## GregF (Sep 13, 2009)

Justin,

What kind of darts?

It happened to me for a long time. And while I don't have any scientific analysis to back up this claim, the problem seemed to go away with some additional supplementation. Apparently my female required an additional source of vitamin A.

Ed has referred to this deficiency on many a thread, so I tried it. It worked for me. I had a female that was laying like crazy, and most eggs were perishing around day 12 (for those eggs that didn't perish right away, that is).

I'm cautious to give any specifics about how much to use, as I have no credentials on the matter, nor do I consider myself an expert. But do some searches on vitamin A and tadpole development, and I'm sure a few helpful threads will pop up.

Good luck,
Greg


----------



## Justin Bailey (Jul 23, 2009)

Thanks Greg! They were Azureus, and the female was a monster, she would lay a clutch of five eggs every other day! Each time the tads would die before emerging though.


----------



## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I am not a expert but i would agree on the vitamin A. I dust my bugs every 2 weeks with a powdered form of human grade vitamin A. It could take 6 month's before you see results. be careful you can od em on vitamin A.


----------



## Justin Bailey (Jul 23, 2009)

Okay, thank you good to know!


----------



## oli (May 13, 2010)

thanks for the info, I had this issue as well


----------



## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

Do the eggs turn gray right before the tads try to emerge from the gel? If so, I've had this happen and I did a couple of things. I determined that I was adding too much water to the petri dish, so I cut back. I also separated the eggs from each other, much like what the male parent would do if he was looking after the eggs.

My tad numbers increased dramatically after that -

best of luck,
kristi


----------



## Justin Bailey (Jul 23, 2009)

Actually they did turn a grayish color before dying. Very interesting, and helpful insight. Thanks!


----------



## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

Wow, deja vu.....

Ease up on the water and try to separate the eggs after the tads form, but before they go gray. I use a wooden skewer to separate them, but I'm sure someone else on the forum has a much better way -

I'd like to know if it goes well for you, so keep us posted, okay? Cool ...


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Regardless of the cause of death (well except for trauma), the tadpoles will discolor in the manner described..


----------



## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

Ed said:


> Regardless of the cause of death (well except for trauma), the tadpoles will discolor in the manner described..


Ed, my auratus tads aren't following the rules. What should I do - send 'em back to school?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

guppygal said:


> Ed, my auratus tads aren't following the rules. What should I do - send 'em back to school?


Are you sure I was addressing you or was I addressing Justin's comment?


----------



## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

Ed said:


> Are you sure I was addressing you or was I addressing Justin's comment?


I think it was both of us. Raising tads (for us) is a learning experience. When I first started pulling my blue/bronze eggs, I added water per the recommendations I've read, but after the tads formed, the eggs would turn gray and die. I figured, heck - if a frog can do, so can I, so I started thinking, waaaaaay back when I was tank-raising Leucs. The only water that the eggs were subjected to was from the humidifier and the excess water ran off. This was because the eggs were being laid on brom leaves over the pond area. So, that's why I backed off the water a little. I also remember daddy Leuc kinda stomping the eggs ever so gently and it clicked that maybe he was separating them. I'm sure I read it online as well. Anyway, ever since I eased up on the water and started separating the eggs when I noticed the tads wiggling, I've had a much better survival rate. Some of the eggs still turned gray, but not all of them, and even the gray eggs developed. Maybe it's different because mine are auratus eggs ~

Buy 'em books, send 'em to school, and what do they do? Chew the corners....


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When normally colored dendrobatid embryos begin to die, they discolor so Justin's report of the tadpoles changing color as they die is normal. 

There have been a lot of comments about the males "stomping" on the eggs to help them hatch but your comment is the first I've heard that the males "seperate" the eggs. Actually what happens is that the males walk onto the clutch to water it with the contents of the cloaca. The seperation occurs because over time the egg jelly surrounding the eggs being to breakdown (liquifies). This would occur in a petri dish without the intervention of the male. The liquification of the egg jelly allows for the emerging tadpoles to have a medium in which they can readily access the male (or female) to climb onto thier back for transport.


----------



## GregF (Sep 13, 2009)

I have a male who regularly "gathers" eggs which have been laid an inch or so apart. It's neat to watch. He looks sort of like Scrooge McDuck, gathering his money. But I've never seen him separate them.


----------



## Justin Bailey (Jul 23, 2009)

Thank you for that info Ed, very helpful indeed!


----------



## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I would agree that adding too much water can cause the inner egg membrane to collapse and not allow the eggs to hatch on their own. 

There are many different opinions about artificially hatching eggs, but I do intercede when the tadpoles get stuck by using a single-edge razor blade to cut the tads free.

Good luck, Richard.


----------



## Goji (Oct 14, 2010)

I did the water mistake. I had at least 4 clutches die right before hatching. I was left with 2 eggs same thing. As soon as found out I sucked most of the water out...and what do you know...I had to help them out of the sac because they were too weak, but they are doing great now. Currently I have total of 10 tads in water and 5 developing eggs. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


----------

