# No flies, hungry floating Frog!



## Michael Milligan (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi all!

I Live in British Columbia Canada, near Vancouver.






I was sold some frogs a while ago at a LPS and was told that they eat pellets.... well, after I was able to figure out what it was I figured out that is hasn't been eating. I get baby crickets, but they don't stay in the tank long enough to get eaten. My cat doesn't seem to mind though! lol

One of the two has died, the survivor won't eat meal worms. I've checked every LPS for the wingless flies, but no luck.

Yesterday I went into a Coral store and was talking to the guy there who suggested that this board would have TONS of locals who would be happy to help me out with a few flies to start a colony.

Is anyone here local that would be willing to help me (and more so my frog) this some yummy flies? I can trade a couple apple snails, or some Bonsai material. I really don't have much to offer, but flies, once you have the colony, must seem cheaper than free. 

Thanks for your time,
Michael


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Hi Michael,

Here's a Canadian dart frog forum. There should be a few people that live closer to you ,there, that could hopefully get you some fruit flies quickly.

Canadart.org • Index page


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

And you might want to go talk to that LFS and give them a piece of your mind.

Tell them we said so. 

Good luck.

s


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Nice video. Love the tank. Beautiful frogs!

Good idea to go to the Canadian forum. We do have a few Canadians here too. Hopefully someone will be able to help you out.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I hope someone close can help you in a hurry. Tell your petshop that Dendroboard says they owe you your money back and that they have NO BUSINESS trying to sell frogs!
Doug


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## Michael Milligan (Dec 31, 2010)

Well.... I guess it doesn't matter now. Just found the little skinny guy dead. 

It was a really good pet shop. And the people are very knowledgeable, generally. I asked them for aquatic frogs as my ACF had died and I found that it was a spectacular pet. They said they got these frogs when they had ordered aquatic frogs. They themselves only had them for a couple days before I bought mine. They did give me some free baby crickets when I went in to tell them what I discovered. 

I never would have bought them if I knew they only ate live foods, but I think I would buy them again now that I know what I know.


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## jeffdart (May 21, 2008)

I think them selling you the frogs only after having them a couple days was irresponsible on their part. Just don't let that incident deter you from owning frogs.


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

got a whole tank shot? that thing looked pretty cool...

frustrating that they can get away with giving false information so much. unfortunately, that seems to be the culture at the pet stores. even more so at large chains. i went berserk in petco the other day when I heard the clerk advising the woman to buy her 11 year old son 2 columbian boa constrictors because the snake would get "lonely" and want a "friend". 

not to worry. i had to be a "buttinski" and tell them what was what. 

... anyway, sorry to go on a tangent ... hope you have success with the next critters you get. i suggest you read up on them online first so you don't have to suffer any more losses. 

good luck,
brett


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh man! I'm sorry. It's really a great hobby and I hope you don't let it deter you. Culturing fruit flies is really easy if you just do a bit of research. Read up and research on here about food culturing and frog keeping in general. When you are ready, please look for a breeder to get your next frogs from.
Doug


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## Michael Milligan (Dec 31, 2010)

btcope said:


> got a whole tank shot? that thing looked pretty cool...


Thanks! I'm really proud of that tank. I got a lot of compliments on it. It is actually a fish tank, and under all of the are a whole mess of cherry barbs and a pair of bettas. Here is a movie I made when my sister gave me her female betta for the tank. Tell me that isn't a rock'n frog tank! lol








Pumilo said:


> Oh man! I'm sorry. It's really a great hobby and I hope you don't let it deter you. Culturing fruit flies is really easy if you just do a bit of research. Read up and research on here about food culturing and frog keeping in general. When you are ready, please look for a breeder to get your next frogs from.
> Doug


I'm not deterred at all, and most things are pretty easy with some research!  I've cultured crickets and meal worms and copipods and mosquito larve and blood worms and little crabs.... (had lots of pets hehehe) Food culturing is really part of the fun. 

So, I'm ready, I just need FF and somewhere to get these frogs. Or others. I like aquatic frogs too and I found that they don't really spent all their time under water. They just do that when you don't have lots of nice floating plants for them to sit in.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Michael Milligan said:


> So, I'm ready, I just need FF and somewhere to get these frogs. Or others. I like aquatic frogs too and I found that they don't really spent all their time under water. They just do that when you don't have lots of nice floating plants for them to sit in.


If your "Aquatic frog" is spending time out of the water, then its not an aquatic frog.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

The tank is beautiful, but that newt mixed in with them all can have some pretty bad problems arise. That newt is toxic to start, and carries pathogens native to china and the asiatic region. The frog carries in own set of native pathogens. They will sicken eachother over time, and likely perish. However, there are instances where these tanks work when adequate space is provided and temps remain good for all inhabitants. For instance the newt you keep would prefer temps in the range of 65-70 F. What are the temps in there?

JBear


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## GeorgiaB (Apr 23, 2009)

Hey,

Sorry I didnt see this sooner, I would have been more than happy to help you out. Join Canadart.org there are lots of us around but its easy to miss a thread here and canadart is a smaller community. Sorry for your losses, that sucks but better luck in the future.

Happy New Year,
Georgia


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Mitch said:


> If your "Aquatic frog" is spending time out of the water, then its not an aquatic frog.


Agreed. The typical "Aquatic Frog" is probably going to be an African Clawed Frog (ACF) or African Dwarf Frog (ADF) or something similar. They live exclusively in the water. They love spending time floating near the top and even jumping out on numerous times, but they don't just get on land for funsies.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Perhaps I am wrong...being new to this whole endeavor...but aren't ACF's common carriers of Cytrid??? And if that is true, has there been some sort of chance that there remains contaminated things in his setup??? And the same goes for the American bullfrogs...is that correct???


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Judy S said:


> Perhaps I am wrong...being new to this whole endeavor...but aren't ACF's common carriers of Cytrid??? And if that is true, has there been some sort of chance that there remains contaminated things in his setup??? And the same goes for the American bullfrogs...is that correct???


It's possible. With a good cleaning it should be fine though. Not all ACF's have chytrid though.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Floating frogs are Occidozyga lima... not acf or dwarf frogs.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

I was just going by what Mitch said by using the phrase "aquatic frogs". Floating frogs like you said are different.


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## Michael Milligan (Dec 31, 2010)

packer43064 said:


> I was just going by what Mitch said by using the phrase "aquatic frogs". Floating frogs like you said are different.


I know the difference. "At" the top is what I meant. Mostly all I see in images is them sitting at the bottom. No, they never come out of the water all the way.

So is my tank unfit for frogs because of the newt?

Here is my ACF. That is what I was calling an aquatic frog, because it is.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Michael Milligan said:


> I know the difference. "At" the top is what I meant. Mostly all I see in images is them sitting at the bottom. No, they never come out of the water all the way.
> 
> So is my tank unfit for frogs because of the newt?
> 
> Here is my ACF. That is what I was calling an aquatic frog, because it is.


Actually the newt is best kept alone, not even with fish. Like I said, most fish like temps in the mid to upper 70's, and that newt would be far more comfortable in the range of 65-70. That is the biggest concern. After the newt becomes sufficiently stressed, it will sicken. This could have a negative affect on the entire tank. I would remove the newt, but that is just my opinion. If the newt is a LTC(long term captive) and shows no signs of stress(i.e. leaving the water, or swimming almost constantly on the surface), than I would not worry.

JBear


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I would think that the barbs and other fish would bite at the frogs and could kill them. You should post a thread asking if anyone keeps aquatic frogs with fish.

Good luck, Richard.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> I would think that the barbs and other fish would bite at the frogs and could kill them. You should post a thread asking if anyone keeps aquatic frogs with fish.
> 
> Good luck, Richard.



I keep several frogs (ACF's) and have kept other "aquatic frogs" and have bred them numerous times, by accident and actually trying to. To tell you the truth it's usually the other way around. ACF's can get over 5 inches long and be damn near thick as a softball. My older female(6 years now) is huge. People feed rosy reds,guppies, and swordies to these African Clawed Frogs. Not on a daily basis, but every once in awhile is fine. Obviously an Oscar or other aggresive fish can easily harm a ACF, but just a barb or other small fish can if they get to close be eaten by the larger ACF's. I'll see if I can dig up an older pic of the female. She has been bred numerous times by now. I love this frog.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I agree, however the pic'd frogs were floating frogs. These frogs are no where near as voracious, nor as fully aquatic as ACF's. Floating frogs are kept in aquaria but are always provided dense top cover to rest on and breathe. With the ACF's, they are provided resting plants that are on the surface, but never as haul outs... I think the floating frogs are more prone to "picking" by the fish because they spend a lot more time at the surface with their butts and legs in the plants underwater where the fish can hide and "pick" at them freely. Just my opinion... In short, I agree with Woodsman...

On a side note, the AFC pics were great! Thanks for sharing!

JBear


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

YAY Bd!!!!!!!

no offense, but i wish people would stop keeping laevis much in the same way i dont think snakeheads are good aquarium specimens.

james


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

james67 said:


> YAY Bd!!!!!!!
> 
> no offense, but i wish people would stop keeping laevis much in the same way i dont think snakeheads are good aquarium specimens.
> 
> james


Not gonna happen here. lol  Forget snakeheads though, a fish that can crawl on land if needed....I'll pass.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

your frogs could have Bd and you probably would never know since they are not affected by the fungus. clawed frogs have brought Bd around the world and yet i still see them for sale.... why? 

in other words... you need to be VERY careful with ANYTHING that touches the tank frogs etc. this includes waste, water, froglets, etc.
james


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

They could have. Until it's a law which in some states (california) it can't be sold there's nothing I can do about it. It is what it is. I will keep on keeping until it becomes a law in the state that I live in that I can't keep them.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i discourage people from buying them but you have them and enjoy them (obviously) so all i can do is urge you to follow all protocol when disposing of any material related to the frogs. this means water from water changes needs to be treated before going down any drain, it means that any deceased froglets need to be double bagged, etc. 

im not saying to get rid of our animals but simply to be careful. and please pass this information along to other owners/ people you sell offspring to, or deny a sale if they dont seem willing to follow such strict protocols. the spread of Bd not only affects the amphibian hobby's ability to continue existing (due to proposed regulations etc.) but also (and more importantly) impacts our native populations of amphibians.

james


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

james67 said:


> i discourage people from buying them but you have them and enjoy them (obviously) so all i can do is urge you to follow all protocol when disposing of any material related to the frogs. this means water from water changes needs to be treated before going down any drain, it means that any deceased froglets need to be double bagged, etc.
> 
> im not saying to get rid of our animals but simply to be careful. and please pass this information along to other owners/ people you sell offspring to, or deny a sale if they dont seem willing to follow such strict protocols. the spread of Bd not only affects the amphibian hobby's ability to continue existing (due to proposed regulations etc.) but also (and more importantly) impacts our native populations of amphibians.
> 
> james


Agree with everything. Precaution and informing the public is key.


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## Michael Milligan (Dec 31, 2010)

Thank you all for your interest!

I know that LOTS of people keep aquatic frogs with fish. The normal list of peaceful community fish are all fine. And as it it was stated above, the problem is usually one where the ACF grows big enough to start eating the fish!

As for the newt, I will be getting another craigslist tank for him soon. He can share it with some White Cloud Mountain Minnows. They are small and will surely leave him/her alone.


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## Tony Kim (Apr 26, 2005)

Michael Milligan said:


> Thanks! I'm really proud of that tank. I got a lot of compliments on it. It is actually a fish tank, and under all of the are a whole mess of cherry barbs and a pair of bettas. Here is a movie I made when my sister gave me her female betta for the tank. Tell me that isn't a rock'n frog tank! lol
> 
> YouTube - New Female betta I got from my sister!
> 
> ...



You can use fruitflies to feed your fish too, I did that when I had guppies back in the days.


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## kain101 (Jan 16, 2011)

jeffdart said:


> I think them selling you the frogs only after having them a couple days was irresponsible on their part. Just don't let that incident deter you from owning frogs.



most lps will sell u something that has been the store for less than an hour


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