# Stream bed structure



## Guest (Mar 26, 2004)

I have my first viv up and going strong, just waiting on good weather to order frogs. But I find my self already planning my next tank, I would like to create one that has a "river" running the length of the land portion into a large water feature(probably 1/4 to 1/3 the available base area). I was planning on setting it up as a false bottom under the land and leaving the water portion open to the base other than gravel substrate and sectioning it off with screening. Now my question is what does anyone suggest I use to construct the river bed? I was thinging a scrap piece of pvc pond liner with river rock siliconed to it, but I was wondering if anyone else had any suggestion?


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2004)

i dont think that you could ever get a piece of PVC to look natural no matter how many rocks were glued to it. Why dont you build it out of the weldbond/expanding foam method that they use for the backgrounds. start with your false bottom egg crate and use the foam to build the banks and then carve it a little and rough it up and then use the weldbond to cover it and then add the river rocks. little more work, but i bet you will get a hell of a better looking river this way.


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## jbeetle (Feb 8, 2004)

You could try using the Mortar sold at http://www.vivariumconcepts.com. I haven't used it, but want to in the future... and it looks like it should be perfect for making a riverbed or other water features.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2004)

The pvc I was refering to was the black flexible sheeting that is used to line koi ponds. I might experiment with the foam and the mortar, worse case scenerio I don't have a stream or I use drift wood :wink: Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'll let everyone know what I find out when I get to that point


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

I made my stream out of a large piece of slate, with rocks glued to it...
it turned out pretty sweet


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

There's two types of flexible pond liners, butyl rubber and PVC sheeting. My mother has a pond for koi, and she used butyl rubber. The advantages are that butyl lasts a lot longer (longer than 15 years is common), is immune to degridation by UV light, and is tougher to puncture (think bicycle tires). PVC is cheaper, more limp (because it's thinner) to make for easier posing, and may last long enough for the time you keep it in the viv (its life is several years outdoors), but it is vulnerable to UV. There may not be enough UV (even if you have a UV bulb) in a viv to make a difference, though. I would be very surprised if you were able to glue anything to either of them, even with silicone. You might have better luck just arranging the rocks on top once you have the liner laid down.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2004)

I have made a stream bed long ago by siliconing rock to a black track bag cut to the stream shape and then planted over the edges, much like you are talking about. It worked great! Play with it at first until you get what you like before you try it in your tanks.


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## Christian (Mar 8, 2004)

I was working in garden last year and we make "natural" pool (with big red fish) with a kind of canvas.

I cannot tell you the name in english.... but at home depot they sell that...

The only draw back, if you change often the soil often you will have two work on your river ich time...

For my self.... I am tinking to use bottle of naturel water cut in shape that I want with this canvas on it... and I will but ???????????? between the bottle and the canvas to have the rigt desing......


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

*water feature thoughts...*

I have been using a planting bag as a "pond liner" and then using vivarium mortar to cover and build up so it look more like a real stream instead of the pvc pipe or silicone most of us used to do. the mortar is very safe and with the "liner" streams are very easy to build.


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## -=Adam=- (Feb 18, 2004)

Joe,

I used a technique that I got off of KS a few years ago in my e. silverstonei tank that has worked great for me (come over and check it out!).

It's very simple. Basically you just add standard silicone to a bowl of substrate (dirt). Mix the two together with your hands and shape it to the desired size and form as the silicone dries and hardens. It worked well for me because my tank is in sort of a sloping hill structure and thats once I formed out my streambed I placed it on top of the rest of the substrate, turned on the pump and voila. Once it's up and running you can barely tell the difference between it and the rest of the substrate. Add a few pebbles here and there to get a more natural streambed look.

It's a fairly good/easy method to get that exact look that you were envisioning. Take care,

-=Adam=-


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

with regards to silicone, i was using a template, and after squiting enough out of the tube for the stream, i'd smear it over the edge of the template about 1 inch. using gloves of course. i'd then start with some sand on one end and gravel at the other for dimention. adding this in combination then allowing to dry half way, about 1 hour. i would pull it from the template, afix with more to the begining of hte stream at the bottom of the fall-feature and while making an impression in the soil lay the "stream Bed" down. adding more silicone to the edge that was sticking up and placing larger rocks i would hide the edges. this worked great but now i use those black plastic-pvc bags that can be bought from plant stores and cutting htem open make a stream bed with them.







on top of the liner i place a vivarium mortar mixture and to that i add the needed stones to make it look nicer, more realistic. i use pretty strong pumps too, 1300 which pump about 300 gallon per hour so i need the liner to hold as good as the mortar.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

I used plain old pond liner to make a pool area that branches off into two streams that meet back up at another pool. With an island in the middle. I placed pebbles in the bottom and moss draped over the edges of it all and it worked great.
Rhonda


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

I forgot to add that I have an egg crate false bottom with a pump that flows directly into the first pool. I also draped moss over the edge of my self contained waterfall and put a "fallen log" right near the waterfall so it looks like it is all one continuous flow from top of the falls to the last pool.
Rhonda


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2004)

did my photos show up, anyone? i get a red ex and that bugs me...

here is the image html:

http://www.terra5designs.com/gallery/co ... ream92.JPG

and 

http://www.terra5designs.com/gallery/co ... ream84.JPG

not sure why the red is on my systems screen but if anyone else is getting that issue, let me know please...maybe i did the img thing wrong...


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2004)

sorry for the redundant posting. I installed a 403 code and forgot. 

here are the photos i wanted to show:









and










Again, i appologize for the mix up.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Terra5 said:


> i use pretty strong pumps too, 1300 which pump about 300 gallon per hour so i need the liner to hold as good as the mortar.


I hope that wasn't for a frog terrarium. If it is - the image I get is a bunch of frogs 'hangin 10'. I can see them now, catching a wave sitting on a leaf, sayin' "Hey dude, look at me"....I just hope they don't crash on the rocks. :lol: 

What type of terrarium would you need such a strong water feature? I don't know if I have ever heard of anyone putting such a strong pump in a dart frog enclosure.


Melis


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

the reason i'm using a 1300 is that the exit into the vivarium for the water feature is about 5.5 feet from the sump. it's not a raging stream but a nice flow. and besides, it's clearly not done yet so you can't really get a good idea of how the water flows gently of small stones at about 1/4" deep water level...LOL. but image if it was just 2 feet about the sump and the tank was just a twenty...oh my...LOL


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

yea, after the java moss takes over, you may only have a trickle anyway. i like the idea of frog surfing thou. i had a book when i was a kid that was about a frog that lived on the coast and made surfboards out of tounge depressors. it had some "wicked gnarly" pictures =)


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*remember*

I don't mean to show my age or anything, but do any of the members from Ohio remember any of the "SURF OHIO", "SURF THE SCIOTO" t-shirts that made the rounds years ago? 

That would be cool to get a list of kids books together that have frog themes, characters, etc... Goto start the kiddies off young, if you know what I mean.

Melis



drunknmunky said:


> yea, after the java moss takes over, you may only have a trickle anyway. i like the idea of frog surfing thou. i had a book when i was a kid that was about a frog that lived on the coast and made surfboards out of tounge depressors. it had some "wicked gnarly" pictures =)


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

i have a surf ohio t-shirt actually! 

i probably shouldn't tell you that i bought it at a vintage clothing store thou =P


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

drunknmunky said:


> yea, after the java moss takes over, you may only have a trickle anyway. i like the idea of frog surfing thou. i had a book when i was a kid that was about a frog that lived on the coast and made surfboards out of tounge depressors. it had some "wicked gnarly" pictures =)


that book sounds fun. i enjoyed the salamander story which is about a boy that find and eastern red salamander and pretends to turn his bed room into a large vivarium...but i'd never use java moss in a vivarium. that's a water plant.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*Java moss*

Java moss is awesome in a terrarium. I can't believe you haven't used it. The high humity of a terrarium is perfect for it. You should try in on a test tank or something.

Melis


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: Java moss*



melissa68 said:


> Java moss is awesome in a terrarium. I can't believe you haven't used it. The high humity of a terrarium is perfect for it. You should try in on a test tank or something.
> 
> Melis


but what about all the real moss that i use? I use three types and each on has it's own style of growth. here is a gallery, the first photo i believe, shows the ferns and moss. there are fern spores from long ago finally take hold there also. the moss is a basic moss that i placed there a year ago.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*pic of java moss....*

There is nothing wrong with the other mosses, but I wouldn't write Java Moss off as a water only moss. It can be very useful in a lot of different situations. 

You should set up a test tank, and see how it grows. I have coco huts that are covered with the stuff, rocks, streams, etc... 

Does anyone have any good pics they can post of what Java Moss can look like in a terrarium? 

btw...are the terrariums you build dart frogs habitats or something else?

Melis


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## rjmarchisi (Feb 16, 2004)

*Java Moss Close Up*










There ya go.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

My java moss is taking a while to grow with 5000k light, and i have some dicranum that i get near a swamp that grows like crazy! It looks great. Ill get pics once my aunt comes over(my camera stinks and she is a photographer so have to use her camera.)

Ryan


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

That looks more like rock or hair cap moss...did you take that photo?


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2004)

Some of the mosses i've used. 

Fern Moss (Thuidium)
Rock Cap Moss (Dicranum)
Haircap Moss (Polytrichum)
Cushion Moss (Leucobryum)

Has Java ever promoted algea? Has anyone ever planted in the stream? (trying to get back to topic.) I like to use small low growth plants in some parts of the water features. Most i get from online aqua plant sites and even with a good wash, snail have been seen.

back to streams. has anyone ever tried to get the white water effect with faucet nozzle parts or even used a strong air pump or another water sump pump-power head to ad an effect to the stream at a certian "bouldery" area?


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*his photo*

looks like the java fern in my tank too.


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