# Best type of flevopol substitute



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

In your opinion, what do you guys think is the best type of flevopol substitute? Anybody experiment with both?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I've used Ace and DAP. DAP is worthless, Ace is great. I've been meaning to try out Quickrete but haven't had the time.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

woah, kinda disappointing so far with the poll. I thought perhaps since Flevopol is the big hit right now with making backgrounds, more people would at least tell what they use...even if they don't have an opinion which is "the best."


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I wouldn't say it's a big hit. I still see probably 10 people make silicone/dirt mix backgrounds to every one person making a binder based background.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Unfortunately it really depends what you are trying to do with it as to which one is better. I just finished applying my felvopolish background and it is still drying, or I would post a pic. I used lots of tree fern fiber, a little bit of jungle mix (cocofiber with bark bits also) and mixed in the Ace binder first. The Ace is really thick like Elmers glue, so naturally it didn't really distibute throughout the mix very well, so I added about a half bottle of the Quickrete instead of water and it made kind of a slurry. After the Quickrete it was a little thin, so I added a little more of the Ace til I got kind of a loose pasty mix. This was pliable enough to work with but also kinda meshed together and held it's form enough to mold. I was kind worried it wasn't going to set up right but as the first bits dried it becae rock hard but stable and there was no more concerns that it was going to peel off the back. I guess to completely answer your question, if you need something that you need to paint on and then lay material in to have it stick, go with the Ace. The Quickrete is too thin and will not hold worth a crap, but when you add it to a mix to give it strnegth it works like a charm. I think the Ace would work the same way but you would just have to thin it down to get it to mix well. PM me if you have any more ?


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## Thinair (Aug 27, 2005)

I've only used the Ace concrete primer a few times. I blended it with cocopeat, and regular peat with a few stray bits of tree fern fiber. It was tricky to get a workable mix that wasn't too wet... I used dry, unexpanded cococoir, and it made the background able to absorb water and hold moisture for longer once it dried. A few small fans blowing on the tank for five days helped a bit...

After almost two years of plant growth, the background isn't even visible anymore. And to think of all that patching and re-patching... 

I thought using the 'flevopol method' would make my vivs cool and Euro. It didn't seem to matter in the end, so it's back to painting with silicone...

--Carlos


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I've only used ACE, and Weldbond.

It seems like the Weldbond took much longer to dry, and costs more besides, so I definatly like the ACE better.


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## hoyta (Jan 18, 2006)

*hmm*

I used Dap, and its F%^$&&* worthless, and used the quickrete, and had good results. The only thing is that the quickrete is less bang for the buck- The Ace was cheaper, and you got alot more. I'd go with Ace


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I wouldn't say you get more, it's just that you don't thin the Quickrete stuff. If you thin out the ACE you do end up with more, but it just depends on your application as to whether you will thin it or not and ewventually end up with more.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Very interesting, these are the kind of answers I was looking for. 

I have significant doubts that the "falling apart" has anything to do with the concrete binder "rehydrating." I think its more likely the cocopeat expanding. Anybody try a relatively inert mix like sand? Besides, it was designed to be added to concrete.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Well, I'll tell you later on this week. I have a small section of the same tank that still needs to be finished and it's a water section that I was going to line with a sand/binder mixture. I know the acrylic binder and fortifier stuff isn't "supposed" to do well in constant water, but you never know until you try!


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## tchok13 (Apr 5, 2006)

Elmer's concrete bonder, Easily the most expensive. Drys hardest, seems to hold up the best to humidty.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I saw the elmers in the HDW store, and wondered if it was any good...was too cheap to try it...
Thanks for the tip!


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## raimeiken (Dec 24, 2006)

Thinair said:


> After almost two years of plant growth, the background isn't even visible anymore. And to think of all that patching and re-patching...
> 
> I thought using the 'flevopol method' would make my vivs cool and Euro. It didn't seem to matter in the end, so it's back to painting with silicone...
> 
> --Carlos


dont you think plants will grow better on this kind of background instead of silicone and coco fiber?


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## tchok13 (Apr 5, 2006)

I do think we all could come up with a list of Flevopol substitutes and make an empirical testing process and get a definite "this is better than that" for doing “X”. The standard now is than all of us going "oh I think this is good." I would like to see if any of them could hold up under water.
Ideas anyone?


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## Thinair (Aug 27, 2005)

IME, the Ace mix doesn't hold up well to excess water. I had to replace part of the the background where it got wet from a dripwall. But this was running (vaguely) water... Where the background touched the substrate, it would separate from the GS but still stay in one piece. The overall background seems to be holding up, however. I'm not about to go trying to pull pieces off though!

--Carlos


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I think ACE is great stuff, ive used it in several tanks all are doing great. I flat out will never waste my time on silicone backgrounds again. they dont give a good anchor for plants at all. The concrete primer is not nearly as messy, and the fumes dont punch you in the nose the way silicone does. You can also do ALOT more with the concrete binder also, ive made intereseting backgrounds with root and vines sculptures. If you thihnk its not worth it since it will get overgrown, well first off, if you want it to get overgrown, i say its the best option as plants love it, esp compared to silicon method. In adition, if you spend time and get annoyed about it getting completely covered anyways, just prune select spots.

BTW, its good in high humidity, not under running water.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

so, sreland, how did your tank come out?


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## chin_monster (Mar 12, 2006)

I've been pleased with the Quikcrete stuff, not much with with the SilaLatex R that the local Home Depot's have replaced it with. The Silka stuff seems too watery, holds moisture forever and when it finally gets around to drying has contracted significantly requiring several touch ups to get everything covered.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Ok. I just bought the ACE stuff. I'm going to try it out on one of my tanks.
Do I necessarily need to smear it over great stuff, or can I use it over styrofoam or something?


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

Since a year has past, would anyone who has used a flevopolish substitute care to give some follow up?
What did you use, how has it held up, how do plants grow in it? Any tips or things to avoid?


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

I've used both as well as some other brand I don't remember. I have never seen that one is any better than the other. The important thing is to know whether to thin the stuff as others have said. If what you use is thick like Elmer's glue, then thin it with water. If it pours out like milk, then use it as it is. It is also important to let the finished product dry completely before putting it into service. From what I can gather, the bonder doesn't cure, it just dries. And if you add moisture before it is completely dry and set, it just serves to dilute the bonder.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Basically all this flevolpol, ACE Bonder, and Quickcrete is doing is gluing together small tiny wood pieces. Right? 

Well as there is a great deal of variable results over this issue, may I help with my personal experience?

If you see on the waterfall bubbling thread, I've had pretty negative results using this material for something other than its intended usage. On all the bottles they specifically state that they don't recommend it being used, even for concrete, near consistent water sources.

So what could glue together small pieces of wood, is non-toxic, and holds up to 100% submersion of water?

By looking at it from this light I have found two effective alternatives that when combined with fast moving water did not erode or become destroyed.

1. The less popular Fiberglass Resin. It's cheap, smelly, toxic as hell, and generally pisses off your household when you use it, as the resin smell permeates the entire house and next village over. However, it does yield good results so long as you mix the resin and catalyst FIRST. THEN add in small amounts of peat/colorant and paste on. Worked for me..

2. The unknown (As in I haven’t heard anyone talk about it.) Titebond III Waterproof Wood Glue

I have recently successfully tested this product out on a greenhouse wall that I've had a waterfall running down since last summer. I mixed the glue with a brown colorant, then peat, and coco-husk. (all of which were dry) I then applied it on like a past and have not had any issues with it since. No noxious fumes, doesn't un-adhere like MY experience with the flevolpol/ACE bonder, and its extremely thick compared to the thin ACE bonder. Plus you can add color to it, which makes it all the more versatile. I recommend if you consider this technique for constructing your next project that you look into this material as a prime choice. Just please be sure to let it cure for the appropriate time as stated on the bottle.


http://www.titebond.com/images/WhatsNew/TBIIIFrontCoverWNTB.jpg


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I used Quickrete brand about a year and a half ago now, and have no complaints, it is all still holding together very well with no issues. I also used it around my water fall, and IMO it has held up extremely well, only one small area broke off and I more so attribute it to roots growing into it and breaking it loose from the greatstuff than the water since all the other areas around it have held up. I also allowed it to cure for close to 3 weeks so I knew it was cured all the way through before I put anything else in the tank or exposed it to high levels of humidity.


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## SLEDDER23 (Mar 17, 2005)

I use Ace and add some gorilla glue as well. The quickrete seems too runny to me, but I haven't tried it. Working good so far and the gorilla glue's expansion as it dries adds some depth.


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