# Back legs hyper extend and bend in opposite direction



## Alanis1221 (Dec 1, 2013)

One of my citronellas has an issue with the back legs. He is around a year old and I have dusted religiously with high quality supplements since I recieved this group 4 months ago. It started recently and at first i thought it was broken but it happens to both legs especially if hes climbing or jumping fast. His legs will go from completely normal to this 😱 does not seem to bother him he just hobbles around until they go the right way. And then he will carry on normally until it happens again in a few hours.Curious on the possible cause


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

What, specifically, are you dusting with? How old are the supplements.


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## Standby Diver (Mar 9, 2014)

If it was a supplemental issue like calcium tetany I would think it would be more systemic. 
I would think this is more of a musculo-skeletal issue, subluxation vs. hyper extension vs. some kind of ligament damage. If the joint has lax joints and there is excessive force on it it may be hyper extending and locking out then working free. 
Similar things happen with human knees like a "bucket tear."
That being said I am not terribly familiar with frog A&P but just using what I know about people and applying the same thought process. That is all this non vet has got.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

What are you supplementing with? My ? Is with a year old frog and you have had it for 4 mos. Are you sure this is new? Did you Quarantine? Contact the person you bought the frog(s) from?


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

I was leaning towards a metabolic bone disease, like osteomalacia, caused by an imbalance in bio-available Calcium, Phosphorus, and vitamin D3 in animals fed an invertebrate exclusive diet without proper supplementation.



Standby Diver said:


> If it was a supplemental issue like calcium tetany I would think it would be more systemic.
> I would think this is more of a musculo-skeletal issue, subluxation vs. hyper extension vs. some kind of ligament damage. If the joint has lax joints and there is excessive force on it it may be hyper extending and locking out then working free.
> Similar things happen with human knees like a "bucket tear."
> That being said I am not terribly familiar with frog A&P but just using what I know about people and applying the same thought process. That is all this non vet has got.


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## Standby Diver (Mar 9, 2014)

With osteomalcia wouldn't you see more bowing in the other limbs? 

And is this really bowing of the bones do due softness? or is it a hyperextension of a joint? I think the ligaments may be playing a role here since they are the support for the joint and there doesn't seem to be any bowing in the limbs.

Again i am not a vet, but if one of my patients came in with a hyperextended knees that happens while climbing I would probably be thinking about his ACL and probably not "this guy has rickets." 

That being said what do vets do here? treat for calcium deficiency and see if symptoms resolve? Can they test for calcium imbalance in frogs? Hate to hijack the thread but my curiosity has taken hold.

But most importantly to the OP about those supplements. . .


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

while not a vet, over the years I've seen some unusual signs of "MBD" in a number of species. 

In the various causes of "MBD", there is a loss of calcium structure in the bones. As a result, the muscles and tendons actually cause the bones to warp out of shape and weight bearing bones may have been exposed to multiple fractures and attempts at healing (this is what causes swollen hind limbs in affected iguanas for example). Depending on the level of damage to the bones you can get some pretty severe deformations of the structure and supports. It can present in unusual ways on occasion for example, mandibular deformation while limb long bones do not present obvious deformations unless x-rayed. 

An x-ray may provide the needed information to determine if it is from a metabolic issue or to another factor or both. 

Off the cuff and again not as a vet, I would be personally surprised to see such a uniform deformation in both legs from an injury. Are they common in people? 


Some comments 

Ed


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## Standby Diver (Mar 9, 2014)

Are bilateral joint injuries common? No, but I have seen them with proper MOI. There are some diseases and conditions that do cause joint hyper-mobility. Though those are fairly uncommon but they still are out there. 

Good point though, certainly makes me think the MBD may be more likely.

If only we could get a good history from these damn frogs.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Normally I would have first considered some kind of injury but the evenness and symmetry is what causes me to reconsider the potential causes. I have to admit, that it is surprising to see it occur to that degree from nothing in that short of a period of time. 

Some comments 

Ed


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