# Just a little somthing i found out



## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

When culturing fruit flies i found that instead of adding straight water to the mix, when i used crystal light lemonade instead my culture produced more in the first weeks then some of my other cultures have in their entire cycle.

Maybe a fluke but i think its worth a try


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

hmm. i'm gonna test it out.


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## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

You def should. Here is the thing though. At first as it settles, it looks like its too dry. dont worry it mushes up as the maggots churn everything, so dont think you need to add more crystal light


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

grape juice also seems to help alot


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

I don't think I'd mess with that. Doesn't Crystal light have Nutra sweet in it? I have seen some data suggesting that aspartame can be mutagenic. It owuld make me uncomfortable feeding frogs flies that potentially have this stuff in their gut or on their feet/body.


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

insularexotics said:


> I don't think I'd mess with that. Doesn't Crystal light have Nutra sweet in it? I have seen some data suggesting that aspartame can be mutagenic. It owuld make me uncomfortable feeding frogs flies that potentially have this stuff in their gut or on their feet/body.


Ha, everything is mutagenic these days. Walking down the street is mutagenic.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

insularexotics said:


> I don't think I'd mess with that. Doesn't Crystal light have Nutra sweet in it? I have seen some data suggesting that aspartame can be mutagenic. It owuld make me uncomfortable feeding frogs flies that potentially have this stuff in their gut or on their feet/body.


Amazing how people stick w/ the one idea the come up w/.
If it's simple and it tastes 'good', well then, it must be 'good'.
Well I don't know if everyone thinks that taste might just be oppinion.
You might think something ("crystal light") tastes 'good' only cause you've never had the chance to taste anything better, or just because it is something different/'new' and stimulates a new response/'feeling'. MMM brain candy, something to set off those falsely induced synapses.

Aspartame when combined w/ hydrochloric acid converts to formaldehyde. So at least the frogs might make real nice preserved specimins after there system becomes saturated w/ it and die.

Tomorrow it'll be margerine. :roll:


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

Frogsarethashit said:


> insularexotics said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I'd mess with that. Doesn't Crystal light have Nutra sweet in it? I have seen some data suggesting that aspartame can be mutagenic. It owuld make me uncomfortable feeding frogs flies that potentially have this stuff in their gut or on their feet/body.
> ...


Too true!  But when something causes *visible chromsomal mutations* I prefer to avoid it for animals under my charge. That said, I probably ingest enough aspartame that you could find a few kinked chromosomes in me. :shock:


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Arnt two heads better than one? We'd be doing our frogs a favor!


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

^Of course, that's why I don't even eat half as 'good' as my frogs do.


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## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

I honestly dont think the amount being used would really cause any such reaction. We are talking a tablespoon of crystal light to a gallon of water.

I'm also not drinking crystal light because it is "new" or because i "havent tasted somthing different". I drink it because it is an easy substitute for soda and lemonade that the diabetics in my family can't drink.

I also dont believe everything i read. I read once that milk could cause cancer, and that you can go blind by sitting too clsoe to the TV. I need cold hard facts from reputable sources before i accept somthing as truth.

You guys could be 100% right tho


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I think everything causes cancer - in excessive amounts.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

> I don't think I'd mess with that...


FWIW, neither would I. Anything with aspartame gives me headaches and heart palpitations. I won't eat/drink anything with an artificial sweetner, much less feed it directly or indirectly to any animal I'm responsible for. Especially sensitive ones like PDFs.

EricG.NH


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

I have been drinking sodas with aspartame in them for years. It doesn;t seem to affect me.


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## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

I think that this is kind of a silly argument, however...

I would not try it as I have plenty of fruit flies anyway (I just get them from the lab).

In response to Frogsarethashit,
(just jesting mind you)

1. N=1

2. It may not 'seem' to affect you, but in one way or another, it probably does. For instance, it could be correlated to the ability to spell :lol: .



I personally don't like the taste of things with aspertame, but do not know of any sound research proving that it is in any way detrimental to humans (pleas enlighten me if you do).

I seem to recall hearing that some people can detect such 'fake' sugars and that some cannot, but the reference (which I cannot remember) did not mention negative side affects. I do know that excessive amounts of sugar are bad for humans, and would agree with the notion that too much of anything is really a bad thing.

But when considering frogs, I would probably play it safe and avoid these substances, because what I have now works.


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

I try and stay away from too much table sugar - sucrose. Aspartame tastes like ass, but I only drink it when its already present in something I am consuming. I don't go out of my way to add it into anything. I know it contains methanol, and that is what the bad part of aspartame is, the other components are aspartic acid and phenylalanine which are just simple amino acids that are required for protein synthesis in vivo.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

People who use these things (artificial crap) consistantly aren't going to be able to tell the effect(s) from one day to the next as they've now become adapted to taking it in. The body is spending extra energy on trying to rid itself of it and has now converted itself to enable a (the most efficient/feasible) continuous process of removal. 

Then again there are those who are 'numb' from the brain down/ disconected from their body so much, they just simply don't pay attention and don't listen to what it's TRYING to tell you. It effects everyone the same some notice/pay attention some people don't. There's no more or less resistant to it.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

BTW sugar isn't 'bad', or I should say isn't worse than anything else when taken moderately. Some people unfortunately have a pre-disposition of packing on (what they think is sugar) when in fact it's the other parts of the deit that influence the body to more readily absorb it. Or/and stress, sleep deprivation....

Sugar lubricates individual cells and reinforces the bond between them. Could be a miracle cure for many things when not substitued and regulated as a supplement, not an addition to.


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Hmmm.... I read this as I drink my 5th glass of tea for the day (probably 5/6 of a liter in this thing) and it has 4 packets of Splenda in it...


Thanks guys! I won't sleep tonight!!!! Woo!


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

stchupa said:


> Sugar lubricates individual cells and reinforces the bond between them. Could be a miracle cure for many things when not substitued and regulated as a supplement, not an addition to.


Where did you get that information from?


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## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

Well my frogs have eaten the crystal light flies......and they all developed cancer and diebetes....not really, they are perfectly fine


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

A small amount of aspartame in a culture is nothing to worry about, IMHO. Did you know that methylparaben has been shown to build up in human tissues and was found in 18 of 20 breast cancer tumors sampled for a study? And yet people dose their FF cultures with it to feed to their frogs. The point I'm trying to make is not to stop using methylparaben, but to realize that but to realize that if you worried about everything that was linked to cancer or some other disease or disorder, you'd never be able to do anything. As the great comedy musician Stan Borison said: "If you want to live, don't breathe."

Here's a link to the stuff about parabens:

http://www.archetypeltd.co.nz/parabens%20and%20BC.htm


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## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

That was pretty much my argument. I am dealing with maybe a tablespoon of mix to a gallon of water and i have seen a huge boom in fruitfly production. For me it works and it looks liek its gonna be working again on the second one i tried.

Its safe folks...my frogs have not keeled over and their insides have not been turned to fermaldihyed (sp)


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I won't comment on the utility of Crystal Lite in FF cultures but I would offer a few observations on the purported toxicology of aspartame aka Nutrasweet.

Aspartame has been one of the most heavily investigated substances over the past several decades and the preponderance of evidence points to no significant safety issues when used in moderation.

As mentioned in a previous post, aspartame is composed of two amino acids, L-aspartic acid and L-phenylalanine and the carboxyl terminus of phenylalanine is esterified with a methyl ester. The breakdown products of aspartame in the body are aspartic acid, phenyalanine and methanol. Both amino acids are found in abundance in a variety of foods and unless you are unfortunate enough to have phenylketonuria, neither are hazards. 

Now also as mentioned before, the methanol released from aspartame is rapidly converted to formaldehyde. However, perhaps what most people don't know is that formaldehyde is routinely being formed in your body as a result of various biological processes and all cells have machinery to convert this formaldehyde to formic acid.

Many fruits and vegetables contain methyl esters and the amount of methanol one is exposed to by drinking a 12 oz. can of soda is comparable to the level of methanol released by eating a single banana. If you like your V8, note that tomato juice will expose you to 6 times the amount of methanol as an aspartame containing soft drink. The last time I looked, I don't remember seeing bananas or tomato juice on a dangerous food list.

Now for the question of mutagenicity/carcinogenicity. Aspartame has not been shown to be genotoxic in either the AMES test or several different chromosomal aberration tests. In addition, multiple 2 year mouse carcinogenicity studies have been performed at doses ranging up to 4 grams per kilogram with no demonstration of increased cancer rates. To put this in a bit of context, 2 years is roughly the lifespan of many mice so they were exposed over their entire lifetime to hideously high levels of aspartame. If one were to extrapolate this to a human experiment, a 6 kilogram child less than 1 year old would be dosed with 24 grams of aspartame per day with the dose increasing as they grew and peaking at 400 grams per day (roughly 0.9 pounds) of aspartame per day (yum yum) at age 20 for a healthy 100 kilogram man. That 100 kilo man would then be dosed for an additional 60 years  with 400 grams per day and then at age 80 would be analyzed for the presence of any hyperplasias, suspicious growths and tumors. 

To put those 4 gram per kilogram a day studies in perspective, you would have to drink ~2000 Nutrasweet containing 12 oz. soft drinks per day to gain that level of exposure. For every day of your life.

Now there have been some weird study results in a few of these onco studies as they are known but having seen more 2 year onco studies than I care to remember, let's just say you can get all kinds of odd findings, including ones that suggest that your test compound prolongs life, eliminates cancer, gives the mice a shiny coat, etc. It drives the toxicologists nuts analyzing those studies which is a good thing in my book :wink: 

I don't like Nutrasweet because I think it leaves a bitter aftertaste plus it tastes somewhat funky....there is significant genetic diversity in one's ability to detect sweet, bitter, salt and so on so it's no surprise that some like it and some don't. But I would never worry about consuming it because of health issues. 

Bill


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

I hate the taste of fake sugars. Diet pop is disgusting. I can't even swallow it. Oh, and the people who get diet pop with their Big Mac and super size fries are hilarious.

I heard a rumor that most of the research on the fake sugars was funded by the sugar growers.



> Did you know that methylparaben has been shown to build up in human tissues and was found in 18 of 20 breast cancer tumors sampled for a study?


Thanks for the link, that was good reading. I've thought about this as well, but the MSDS for methyl paraben says that it is "difficult to dissolve" in water. So, the average 1/2 cup culture would have 1/5 teaspoon of methyl paraben. The larvae would eat the stuff, but the adults wouldn't be able to slurp much since it doesn't dissolve easily.


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

Great info, Bill.

Another point, independent of the argument surrounding aspartame (made more or less irrelevant by Bill's knowledge on the issue):

Guys - the aspartame would have been INGESTED AND DIGESTED by the flies. Any immediate effects of consumption would be irrelevant (except perhaps for trace amounts in the gut, but those would be awfully trace), assuming the flies could metabolize the chemical. Secondary toxic effects (and biomagnification) of the chemical upon breakdown could become a concern in this case. 

However, formaldehyde is a nasty enough toxin (in significant quantities) that we would have to assume that a) the flies could further metabolize it to safer intermediates (all organisms that I know of can, assuming their machinery doesn't get swamped) b) the chemical was excreted without any digestion or c) it wasn't around in large enough quantities to kill the flies, and hence probably not the frogs.

Feeding a given chemical to feeder insects is not always the same as feeding frogs the same chemical. This is a two way street, of course.

It is not really accurate to say that sugar lubricates individual cells. Most cells in an animal are bathed in a complex fluid matrix containing mostly protein. Some of these proteins have sugar moieties on them (glycoproteins, glycosaminoglycans, etc). Without referring to a biochemistry textbook, some glycosylated proteins are involved in cell-cell connection.

All that said - is Crystal Light mix any better than sugar water added to the media?


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

bluedart said:


> stchupa said:
> 
> 
> > Sugar lubricates individual cells and reinforces the bond between them. Could be a miracle cure for many things when not substitued and regulated as a supplement, not an addition to.
> ...


It is correct to say that "sugars" lubricate cells, but it is incorrect to assume that table sugar (sucrose) does this. It is other sugars in the body like fructose, mannose, or glucose that accomplish this.


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

> It is correct to say that "sugars" lubricate cells, but it is incorrect to assume that table sugar (sucrose) does this. It is other sugars in the body like fructose, mannose, or glucose that accomplish this.


This is not accurate either. See my above post.

Mannose is often antigenic (being found on many bacterial membranes) and in the human body is either the initiator of an immune response (when bound to a membrane) or converted to another sugar for further metabolism, notably fructose-6-phosphate, an intermediate of the glycolytic pathway. Fructose and glucose have similar fates - generally being metabolized via the glycolytic pathways, or incorporated into proteins.

Their use in the body is overwhelmingly for the production of energy, and for incorporation into some proteins. They are not lubricating chemicals.


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

I wasn't sure on exact sugar names, so I listed some that were used in vivo. I was just saying that sucrose definately isn't the type of sugar that does the job you said it does. And with that said, mannose could and does do a million other specific functions in the biological system than just the one you have named.


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

I did not say anything with regards to sucrose. 

I do not believe the role of mannose (in mammalian biology, at least) is as diverse as you imply.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

lukebalsavich said:


> 2. It may not 'seem' to affect you, but in one way or another, it probably does. For instance, it could be correlated to the ability to spell :lol: .
> 
> I personally don't like the taste of things with aspertame, but do not know of any sound research proving that it is in any way detrimental to humans (pleas enlighten me if you do).


"Pleas" has an "e" on the end. :lol:


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## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

on purpus


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Happy Valentine's Day. 

It's supposed to be "on porpoise," you idiot! :!:


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## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

Happy V-Day to you two! :lol: 

While aspertame may be correlated to bad spelling, other things probably are as well (and yes, being an idiot is one of them).

Now I am of to by sum roses four my girl.

Oh and thanks for the input Bill.. interesting stuff.


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

It is spelled aspArtame.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Their is defenitutally a problim hear with you're fundumentile edicashuns. Long live Aspartamine!


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

Aspartamine is a completely different compound.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Of coarse it is. You think I woodn't no that. I went to the Big Skool. The one after Kindygarden.

(I wonder how long before we get in trouble here for off-topic silly?)


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

slaytonp said:


> (I wonder how long before we get in trouble here for off-topic silly?)


Oh I could gather some attention in a heartbeat. Do you dare me?


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I dare you! We're as good as busted and banned to the lounge. Or is that boosomed?


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## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

Wow i been away from the forum for a few days.....im glad to see my posts can turn into such merriment. This has turned into such a secret OT thread

EDIT: o yea..to keep it legit...CRystal Light Crystal light Aspartame...cancer....frogs...fruit flies...lemonade...washingmachine


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## Steve (Apr 8, 2006)

Have a fight... see who's the best... have a fight... see who's the best.. have a...

Twenty bucks Patty wins...! :lol: :twisted: :lol: 

Regards

Steve


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I'll take that bet, Steve, and raise you another 20 that I lose. (Or is that loose?)


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## Steve (Apr 8, 2006)

Patty,

With all your life experience... i'm a winner.. in fact quadruple or quits!!!!

Steve


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

> Their is defenitutally a problim hear with you're fundumentile edicashuns


wut? :lol:


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

There are winners who live in Las Vegas?--on purpose?


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Four pages and nobody has thought to ask *why* the heck did you decide to try putting Crystal light in a fruit fly culture?


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Desire, would be my guess. And no one telling him he couldn't/shouldn't.
And the aspartame telling him he could/should. :roll:


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## JBR (May 8, 2006)

> Four pages and nobody has thought to ask why the heck did you decide to try putting Crystal light in a fruit fly culture?


Thank you


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Arklier said:


> Did you know that methylparaben has been shown to build up in human tissues and was found in 18 of 20 breast cancer tumors sampled for a study? And yet people dose their FF cultures with it to feed to their frogs. ."


No idea. Not all that suprizing though. To inhibit is to inhibit is it not?

There is no HAVE to in using it. I don't and never will. Not needed.


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## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

Well lets not use Dihydrogen Monoxide because

1. It is a major component of acid rain.
2. It eventually dissolves nearly anything it comes into contact with.
3. It is lethal if accidentally inhaled.
4. It can cause severe burns in its gaseous state.
5. It has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients

And people dose their fruit fly cultures with it and introduce it into their tanks

We are closing in on a month of use now and none of my frogs are sick or dying. All are fat and active. Not every study is correct and should not be taken as gospel because it supports your argument.

What i noticed is that the Crystal light culture has double the yield of any others. Even ones started before it. Could be a fluke but i cant argue with results. I started up another one and it seems to be on the same track.


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