# First vivarium finished, just planted 30 gallon.



## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Hi everyone,
I've been a lurker for a long time now and I just finished my first vivarium. It's a 30 gallon tank with no frogs yet, abg substrate and just in it's grow out stage now before I put in any inhabitants. 
There's a water feature but I have it drained at the moment due to a problem with everything in the water dying so I'm still figuring out how to fix that. I made a separate thread of that here if anyone wants to chime in: 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/128625-something-water-my-new-vivarium-killing-plants.html

But since I drained it when I started planting, everything is looking fine. I'm hoping they'll acclimate quickly and show some signs of new growth soon.
Here's the FTS!


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Looks good. Forget the water feature and add more leaf litter.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

It's visually appealing to the human eye, but it seems there isn't much floor space for the frogs or for microfauna.


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

You both right, that's what I was feeling too. I'll remove the pump and put substrate on the right hand area and keep the left for the pond effect. Sounds good?


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

So I pulled the pump and filled in the stream bed with abg and then added a layer of leave litter. When I pulled out the pump the tube, which was clear before, had turned a milky white, maybe that was contributing to the plant dying problem.

Well anyways, gave it a good mist and planted a portion of selaginella kraussiana that I have, and threw in more moss. Contemplating whether or not to put in the rabbit foot fern I have also but the only place I can see it fit is in the middle of the tank and I feel like it would take from the flow of the tank. It's big and bushy, as big or bigger than the largest bromeliad on the right. I think it looks good as of now, and is completing the image of what I was going for, a patch of living forest between two tree trunks.

But what do you guys think? Share with me your opinions! 

This is what it looks like at the moment.


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Quick update 10/10/13.


Things are picking up! All's that left is deciding what species of PDF will inhabit this viv in the future! I've been wanting a species in the Ranitomeya genus ever since I recognized them from the documentary Life in Cold Blood, narrated by my favorite documentary narrator David Attenborough! I'm completely fascinated by their mating and parental behavior, not to mention they're completely gorgeous.
Here's the vid:





Problem is, I haven't been able to decide which species would fit me best, so I'm hoping everyone can help me decide 

What's your favorite Ranitomeya species?


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

duyisalilazn said:


> Quick update 10/10/13.
> 
> 
> Things are picking up! All's that left is deciding what species of PDF will inhabit this viv in the future! I've been wanting a species in the Ranitomeya genus ever since I recognized them from the documentary Life in Cold Blood, narrated by my favorite documentary narrator David Attenborough! I'm completely fascinated by their mating and parental behavior, not to mention they're completely gorgeous.
> ...


Those are Oophaga, probably pumilio, not Ranitomeya.


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Oh! Oops, sorry for the mistake. I'm just a giant noob still haha. I've never actually seen a PDF in person yet actually, so at this point they pretty much look all the same to me 

I thought they were Ranitomeya due to their parental habit of feeding unfertilized eggs to their tads, which was the behavior I was interested in and hoping to observe in person. But looks like they weren't the only genus to do just that, guess I have even more information to learn! Though I still have my heart set on Ranitomeya, their small size are very interesting


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

well, even if they were not _ranitomeya_, I still highly recommend the genus! The genus _ranitomeya_ contains some of my favorite species!

From my experience imitators are a hardy and bold option for nearly any tank and they would especially like one such as this. Also, I have a weird attachment to vanzos and MUST recommend them Vanzos are very cool but their boldness varies at first so you might not see them as much as others...

Good luck,
John


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

FroggyKnight said:


> well, even if they were not _ranitomeya_, I still highly recommend the genus! The genus _ranitomeya_ contains some of my favorite species!
> 
> From my experience imitators are a hardy and bold option for nearly any tank and they would especially like one such as this. Also, I have a weird attachment to vanzos and MUST recommend them Vanzos are very cool but their boldness varies at first so you might not see them as much as others...
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input! I've been looking extensively into imitators recently actually. Their colors are amazing. I'm anxiously awaiting the 17th Portland Metro Reptile Expo on January 18, 2014 and hopefully I will be able to obtain a breeding pair there! How much does a pair of imitator usually go for? If I'm unable to find a pair, will I be able to just buy 4 imis and house them together as a group in this viv until a pair is established? 
In a viv this size will they be able to accommodate each other without too much fighting and aggression?


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Imitators are not too pricey but they can run for about $55 to $85 for froglets and probably $250 for a proven pair. It really depends on where you get them and when. As for keeping them in groups, I have seen many people keep trios in tanks as small as ten gallons. In other words you'll be fine with maybe 5 frogs MAX.

Good luck 
John


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

I have also heard of some same sex aggression in cramped quarters but that won't likely be a problem in this viv. Also, I have heard from others that for breeding purposes trios of 2.1 work best as occasionally females may eat each other's eggs. Personally I have not experienced any of these problems, but there is always the chance.


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

I see, I was a bit nervous about housing more than a pair since I wanted to simulated the most realistic environment for them within the viv, and didn't want to stress them out. The viv has a decent layer of leaf litter and plenty of visual barriers throughout, so hopefully that'll cut down on the aggression.


I'll prepare about $300 and head to the fair in January. If I'm unable to locate a pair within my price margin I'll probably go with the 4 individuals. Hopefully my luck doesn't screw me, and I'll end up with at least one pair  Until then I will just grow this viv out.


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Quick update!

Smeared some red clay and sprinkled with Kyoto moss spores and Mini Sinningias seeds from a seed pod. 



A young Mimosa Pudica seedling!



Riccia & Christmas/Java moss' new growths.



Unknown little plant that sprouted from NEHerp's sheet moss. Can anyone ID?


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Quick update from my phone. Added a piece of driftwood covered in christmas moss from my shrimp aquarium.

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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Wow, its really coming along nicely! I was actually thinking of this tank the other day


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## froggorf (Nov 22, 2008)

I personally had issues with a group of 3 imitators (intermedius) in a 55 gallon well planted viv. It was a 2.1 trio and the males constantly fought with one being the more dominant. I've since switched to Highland variabilis and my group of 5 are very bold, breed constantly and seem to coexist very well together. Just my 2 cents, plus I'm also in the NW and could help you out with froglets


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

froggorf said:


> I personally had issues with a group of 3 imitators (intermedius) in a 55 gallon well planted viv. It was a 2.1 trio and the males constantly fought with one being the more dominant.


Really? I never have had any problems like that before with my banded groups. If anything my females showed the most dominance. Mine were kept in a 30g cube, well planted, with the same 2.1 ratio. 

It seem frogs are much like people… each is unique


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks FroggyKnight! Im very happy with how the tank is doing also.After a period of dying off, the plants that did survive are growing at a noticable rate. 
Froggorf, I was thinking that it would be interesting to see their territorial behaviors so I wouldn't mind seeing them fight once in a while, but would that just stress the loser out too much? If so I'll go ahead and take your advice and switch my attention to the highland variabilis. And your offer is very tempting! Kind of sucks that I'm broke atm, but when I do get more money I'll shoot you a PM!
Also quick question, lately I've noticed that my broms arent holding water for as long as they used to. Everyday when I mist the tank it seems like theres only a tiny puddle inside, just maybe 20% full. Is this a problem?

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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

In my opinion, if fighting occurs, spend extra time monitoring the frogs! If there is any decline in health or any abnormal behavior such as excessive hiding I would separate them. Fighting can do a great amount of stress to the frogs so it should be discouraged. I think that your tank will probably do alright without any territorial disputes do to the abundance of hides and visual barriers. 

As to the bromeliad, I can't help you out. I'm a convicted plant killer

When I saw the post about the highland variabilis, my head started spinning… I REALLY want some of those. Then I remembered I'm picking up a trio of vanzos tomorrow


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Well then thank god I built in at least 3-4 caves into the background before planting it! Thats one less potential issue to worry about haha. Don't worry about not having a super green thumb, im just as guilty as you. Luckily only the selaginella portion in the tank has died, and it wasn't very high in my priority list anyways. 
And you must be excited about the vanzos haha, just dont get so excited that you wont be able to sleep tonight! 

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## froggorf (Nov 22, 2008)

Like Froggyknight said, every frog/interaction is different! I was slightly concerned by the fighting because it lasted for long durations and every time the subordinate called the dominant would make a bee-line for him to tackle him and start calling on top of him...

I'd say in the end it's a bit of luck in terms of interactions, but also choose a frog you're really interested in! I think broms tend to drain naturally over time so it doesn't seem like a big deal to me, maybe some more experienced plant keepers can chime in. And yea, I know how it feels to be broke! I have 4 froglets growing out right now and in a month or two they'll be ready for a new home so if you're interested let me know!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

froggorf said:


> choose a frog you're really interested in!


To me this is one of the MOST IMPORTANT rules to follow. It is second only to research!


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## LoganR (Oct 25, 2013)

Final product looks good. Did you decide on the inhabitants yet?


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

LoganR said:


> Final product looks good. Did you decide on the inhabitants yet?


Ditto and curious about this as well. If you like imitators I highly recommend looking into Southern variabilis for boldness and color. If you want something with red/blue/spots you'll want to look into the various pumilio morphs but they do best in pairs or trios. The nice thing about Ranitomeya species is their ability to get along


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Sorry guys but not yet, unfortunately I'm very indecisive haha. So far I'm loving the stripes and banded morphs, especially the Varadero. The spotted are cool also but they just dont get my attention like the others. But who knows, I might fall in love with a pair at the fair haha. Ultimately I don't want to make up my mind yet until I see them all in person, just in case. But keep your suggestions coming, theyre all very helpful and extremely useful as I do my research!  Thanks everyone. 

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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

What about sirensis (formerly lamasi) Highland? Beautiful frogs, with black and yellow stripes, living well in a group!


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

I've been looking at them, and they're definitely "wow!" material. Coincidently, that's what I want to go for  so many options to choose from!

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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

You have many choices available and your viv is fine for frogs of all size. But it is better to practice with flies before taking frogs, so I suggest you to start with fruit flies cultures .


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Already have them up and running since day one! Isopod and springtails too, though I dont see the Isopod very much...idk if theyre doing well

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## BigFishy (Oct 21, 2013)

Looking really good man. Whats your next step?


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Funds are low right now since I quit my job to go back to school but atm I really want to get some more vining plants for the tank, maybe a macgravia sp. of some kind. There's plenty of bare spots on the background that gets a good amount of light and I just hate to see it go empty haha

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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Photo update 
The Mini Sinningias seeds and Kyoto moss spore has begun to sprout and showing signs of growth! 



And check out that mossy field for the future frogs to have picnics on!


The Upside Down Fern's first new frond boasting its recovery


The view from above 


Also threw in clippings of Creeping Jenny, HC and other aquatic plants in just for funsies.


And just another shot from above


Hope everyone enjoy watching the process just as much as I do, and please let me know if you have any constructive criticism!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

No criticism for me. The plants that sprout shows that all is O.K. Start thinking about the frogs to put in it.


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Woke up this morning with these orange little ball-like things on a patch of moss. Idk if it's some kind of mushroom or insect eggs. Is this cause for alarm?

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## LoganR (Oct 25, 2013)

My first guess would be that it is a slime mold. Compare with: Slime mold on moss | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I would expect slime molds to occasionally crop up in a humid, rich environment. If it is a slime, it isn't anything to worry about too much, unless it becomes too abundant.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Mold for me too. I think you need many many springtails.


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Yeah I did some light research before school and came across this. http://saratogawoodswaters.blogspot.com/2012_09_01_archive.html?m=1

Looks pretty identical so I'm not worried anymore. Haha I think the springtail culture is quite established though, everywhere I look in the leaf litter I see them around and about. Theres even a group congrulating in the water. Ill drop more in once I get home though!

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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I think this mold is the most beautiful to see in a viv!


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## duyisalilazn (Aug 13, 2013)

Same! I have a couple of different slime molds appearing in this tank, but none can rival it's intense beautiful orange. Sad to say, they pretty much disappeared/wilted once I came home today. I hope to see them again some time in the future


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

Hey just found your thread and your tank looks great. If you're waiting for the Portland Reptile Expo the selection of thumbnails is very limited. I've been to the last two and you'll find a lot of the bigger species like azureus and a couple pumilio and even fewer ranitomeya species. I was in the same situation as you about my frog selection and ended up getting a group of southern variabilis and couldn't be any happier. They are very bold, colorful, aren't very loud, do well in groups and the females can get quite chubby which is funny to watch. If you're looking for some froglets in the future let me know because I live in Portland and my first froglet came out about 2 weeks ago with many to follow. You'll be amazed at how small they really are in person but you'll fall in love quickly.


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