# And it starts...my first build, 75g vivarium.



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, not much of a beginning but I guess you gotta start somewhere. Shipped my bichirs out to tkromer (thanks again for adopting them  ), moved the cats and pleco to temporary housing and starting the tough task of emptying the tank and cleaning the glass. Every thing is covered with a film of algae that you can not see that well when water is in the tank but once empty is is very obvious. A razor blade and some elbow grease will clean it up nicely. 

Next is to get some substrate materials and decide how I am going to build the background and get those materials too. I think I am going with a fake rock background made from packing foam and grout. So that is it for now. I guess I can post the first picture of the build with many to follow in the coming weeks. Everyone feel free to chime in with comments and advice because I am sure I am going to need it along the way. Thanks for looking.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Prime may kill the algae film for you. I used it to kill the dreaded blackbeard algae from a few pieces of my filter system and it worked fast.
Candy


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

i ll surely follow this thread since i just got a similar tank, 85gallon but i need to confirm
im totally noobs at darts frogs and their tank setup but i ll be browsin here a lot for as much good information as i can!!!
good luck with ur tank man!


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

Thanks again for the fish! The normal colored bichir ate out of my hand last night (shrimp pellets). The blind albino bichir is not really aware your hand is in there, but once he smelled food he did come over, although I never got him to eat out of my hand. 
Keep your thread going and post questions along the way, there are many of us here to help out


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I am going in to town to pick up a few things for the tank. I am going to grab some egg crate if I can find it, some GS foam, and maybe some stuff for my substrate mix. 

I do have a question. I am going to try building a great stuff rock wall and need ideas on what to cover it with. I want it to look more like rock so I don't want to cover it with coco fiber. I was thinking a gray in color sand or mortar mix or something similar. The idea will be to build the structure from GS and once it is hard carve it out. Then I will cover it in clear epoxy and adhere the sand/mortar or whatever to the epoxy. That will create a nice strong and water proof structure that will allow me to have a built in water feature with a small pool and waterfall. I will also do it outside of the tank using the egg crate as a foundation so that the whole thing can be removable if I every have to tear the tank down. 

Any thoughts?


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## Fishman (Jan 16, 2007)

No need to cover the GS with epoxy before adding the mortar to it. You will get a better adhesion on a rougher surface. You can also use tile thinset, or cement that is used to level floors. Just make sure to rinse the cement mixtures really well to lower their pH. A vinegar solution works well, or if you are confident/brave enough to try it the hardware store should have an acid wash available (I'd prefer vinegar for safety).


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Will the foam covered with the mortar be water proof and stay stable without the epoxy? I plan to build a small pool out of the foam so that it is a one piece unit to prevent leaks.


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## Fishman (Jan 16, 2007)

Foam cover with mortar, grout, etc. would be prone to leaks\seeps. Epoxy over the mortar\ grout would help, but leaks happen in the best laid plans.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Yeah, I hear that. Perhaps I'll have some glass cut and also make a square glass partition of sorts to also contain any leaking that may occur or to perhaps even be the pool instead of trying to make one from foam at all.


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

The great stuff won't break down when it's wet so you don't have to worry about it, If you're making a small pool _LIBERALLY_ coat the inside with silicone and you can seal it easily. If you're just trying to "guide" water with it you don't have to make it waterproof, just the closer the better.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Does 30L of LECA sound about right for a 2 inch layer?


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Little update. Started working on what will be the water feature. There is still lots of carving that needs done before it is ready but it gives a bit of an idea.

Frame work:










After first can of GS.










Test fit in the tank. Stills needs lots of shaping and refining. At least it's a start.


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

Looks like the coverage is there, now for the carving.


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## Haleman50 (May 22, 2008)

looks you have a good start -keep up the good work


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Alright. Got a little further today. Carving is done and the feature is covered. I used brown silicon and covered it in brown sand/gravel. I was hoping for more of a stone effect which did not happen but I am still happy with it. I know there is not much to comment on but any critiques or criticisms is more than welcome. Here's the photos from today's work...


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## gold3nku5h (Jul 24, 2008)

Looks pretty good so far, this will be the first that i will actually be able to follow along with.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

With a little work and a couple more supplies I should be ready for plants this coming week. Any suggestions? I don't want an overgrown tank but rather would like at least on open area in the front center part of the tank. I do have the obligatory brom though I am not a huge fan. I also have an ivy, exact kind I am not sure without looking. Other than that, I am clueless. I know I want some moss, maybe java or riccordia (sp?). Perhaps some broad leaf variety of plants?


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Thoughts anyone?


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

I would probably stick with moss (maybe java or "christmas") and/or riccia on the water feature area and leaf litter on the substrate, that way the frogs can still have some cover in the open area you are planning to leave.
Maybe some anubias nana "petite" (or regular nana) also in your water feature.
What type of frog are you wanting to set up in this tank? That would help with plant choices a little.
I think a nice piece of driftwood in there with some ferns on it would be awesome (I would probably choose one fern for the wood, that way it doesn't look 'messy'... like a rabbit's foot, korean rock fern or lemon button). What are the measurements of this tank? 48" x 18" x 21"?
If you plan on really colorful frogs I would say a Calathea concinna that way the frogs color will be more striking, if your choosing something more like g&b auratus maybe Stromanthe sanguinea "Tri Color" that way you can see the frogs against the plants better 
Some kind of begonia would be nice too, they have a few at black jungle http://www.blackjungle.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BJTS&Category_Code=BEG 
For the most part if you choose plants with kind of small leaves it will make your tank even larger than it is


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Thanks for the input. The frogs will be a group of 5 leucs. I have a couple smallish pieces of drift wood and I am looking around for a nice "show" piece to add in there as well. Yes, the tank is 48x18x21. I will look in to the plants you suggested. Also, what are some flowering plants that will work in the viv? I am going to check in to Orchids but are there others? Thanks again. I should have substrate in tonight or tomorrow and will be ready for planting. Waterfall pump is ordered so should be here this week. I still need to get some back panels and everything will be finished then. Let it run for a month or so, get my FF cultures going and I should be ready for frogs beginning of Sept.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Also I am looking for some background panels. What is the word on tree fern panels and coco fiber panels? Which is preferred and why? The coco fiber is MUCH cheaper but I suspect there is a reason. Thanks for any input.


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

I'm sure you'll get more replies than just mine but... tree fern panels are very very sturdy and rather stiff, they also break down way more slowly. Coco fiber is very flexible, they sell it at places like Home Depot as liners in hanging plant baskets, etc.


Oh yeah, thought of another colorful plant that might be easier for you to get ahold of, maranta 



Nubster said:


> Also I am looking for some background panels. What is the word on tree fern panels and coco fiber panels? Which is preferred and why? The coco fiber is MUCH cheaper but I suspect there is a reason. Thanks for any input.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I have substrate !!!! Getting closer everyday. Here are some update pics for anyone that cares.

Don't mind the dirty tank and reflections. I still need to come up with something for the center, more wood, and I have leaf litter as well, just not in the tank yet. Tell me what you think so far. Any suggestions or comments? You guys are too quiet with my build.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Also, how deep should my substrate be? I have it at about 2 inches right now but I have plenty of mix left over that I can increase it if needed.


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

2" is fine for some parts but I think it would be nice if you made the substrate uneven in some places, maybe 4-6" deep in some parts, you could do deeper in the back and less in front or have most of it deeper and have a shallow area in the front center or on one side, get creative


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## Fishman (Jan 16, 2007)

I like your substrate and the fact that you are not doing the typical pond and false bottom tank. Don't get me wrong, I like ponds and false bottom tanks, I have made a few myself, but I also like plants and this should be a better growing medium for them. Keep up the posts, just because no one is commenting doesn't mean we aren't watching with interest to often build journals end up petering out before they are done.


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

I think I see a false bottom under there fishman 

Oh, yeah, nubster, I would love to see some more wood in there


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## Fishman (Jan 16, 2007)

A false bottom really? I am going blind with age. Nubster?


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

hehe, if you look at the full tank shot you can see the bottom rim of the tank (brown) and black above that and right between the black and the substrate I swear I see white, I was assuming that was the tippy-top of a false bottom?
Nubster, you skipped us through some of your steps 



Fishman said:


> A false bottom really? I am going blind with age. Nubster?


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Yeah, I admit, I did skip some steps since I was not getting much response. But yeah, there is a false bottom but I made an effort to hide it as much as I could. I might still try to get a little substrate between the glass and the eggcrate so it cannot be seen at all. I will try to get some better pictures up when I get the glass cleaner. I know I should have taken more shots but I got excited because things were starting to take shape.

I agree about the wood, I need lots more. I will probably order some when I order my back panels and some plants. My pump should be in this week so the water feature will be up and running soon. Still have lots of fine tuning to get it where I want it and I need to get some green in there but I am happy to be this far. It already has me thinking about getting out of SW fish so I have more room for another viv... :?


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Water pump arrived and I installed quickly last night just to see how it looked. Works ok. Needs some tuning. Seems to be either too much or too little flow. I need to play with the tubing length or get a valve to control the flow a little better.

Temps are good at around 80 and humidity is sitting at 91 so things seem to be looking good. I need to order some plants and background panels and drift wood and I think am am set.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I never realized that choosing some plants for the tank would be so hard. I have been searching the various sponsor sites and there are a couple plants here and a couple plants there that I like but I hate to order them like that since shipping will kill my budget ordering from several different places. I might try a local green house first since the plants wouldn't ship until next week anyways.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Bought a few plants today from a local nursery, not sure what they are exactly but I asked about tropical plants that stayed on the smaller side and these were on the table that was pointed out to me. Nothing labeled and the person working was not much help. So hopefully they will work out. I am going to post some pictures here and in the plant section later on to see if I can get them id'ed. I also added two more lights for a total of four 32 watt T8 bulbs in the 6500k spectrum so hopefully I can support some good plant growth with those. Really brightened up the viv too. I'll get a picture of that up as well. Still need to get some background panels and driftwood. I just wanted to post the up date. Thanks for looking and as always, C&C is welcomed.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Here's the updated FTS and new plants. Can anyone identify?


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## Amphiman (Nov 8, 2007)

Looks like ET fern and sygonium..only ones I can tell


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

Nubster... I'm sorry I don't know my plants all that well, but browse http://www.exoticangel.com/Varieties/. I've found most of the plants I've picked up there, and they also tell you how to take perfect care of them. enjoy!


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Wow, thanks so much for the link maverick. That is great and there are several places that sell Exotic Angel Plants near me. I will be doing lots of reading this evening.


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## 1happymommy (Jun 29, 2008)

I love your construction. It's really looking good. Please keep up the photo's.
It always helps others with limited imagination like myself.


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

Nubster said:


> Wow, thanks so much for the link maverick. That is great and there are several places that sell Exotic Angel Plants near me. I will be doing lots of reading this evening.


That's what I'm here for!


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, after some thought, I am now torn between a group of leucs and a group of P. Terribilis. Both are beautiful frogs but I may be leaning towards the Terribilis due to the larger size and the fact that I don't see/here about them here as often as the leucs. Any thoughts?


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

I think either one would use the heck out of your viv! I think the leucs might travel the height a little bit more but it isn't that tall (compared to where they go in nature I mean) sooo I think I'll vote for the Terribs!
Also, I was looking through a bunch of wood (just got a box of mopani today) and I wish I could clone one of the pieces of driftwood I have and send it to you, I think it'd be slick in your tank.


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## Sarkany (Mar 11, 2008)

2nd picture: Syngonium
4th pic: Adiantum raddianum
8th pic: Hedera helix
9th pic: Vriesea

Also, I second Cassie's vote for the P. terribilis! Same reasons too... :wink:


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Thanks. I think Terribilis it will be. The mint ones. 

And thanks Cassie for thinking of me with your driftwood. I do have one more larger "center piece" in there now that helps. Still playing with the placement but I am happy with the piece. I still want to get some smaller ones in there though.

Thanks for the plant ID's too. I appreciate it and will look those up to check out their needs.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, I had a bit of a hiccup with the viv. I used foam to hold up the egg crate and siliconed it to stay in place. Not sure if I did not allow enough time to cure but after adding about 5 gallons of water to get the level high enough for the water feature I guess the silicon got really nasty and slimy and fouled the water. I was also having leaking problems with the water feature also due to silicon not curing fully. So I tore the entire tank down, clean it up and used tried and true pvc sections to hold up the egg crate. I also will be using a reservoir to hold the pump and water rather than flooding the entire tank underneath the false bottom. I removed the water feature as well and did some work on it to fix the leaks so hopefully all will be better soon. 

I also received my FF culture kit from Josh's Frogs. Great stuff. I ordered the kit with two cultures and went ahead and made my first two additional cultures and I am very pleased at how easy it was. I have about 15 flies escape but no biggie. I also got a tropical springtail culture which I will add part of to the tank and the other will be cultured in to more springtails.

I also installed coco panels to the upper half of the tank. Looks alright. Now I can get some stuff growing on the back and maybe I can get my humidity up which I have been having some problems with. I also need to build a light rack to get the lights off the glass as I high slightly high temps in the tank as well, around 80 on average. I think getting some space between the lights and the glass top of the tank should help. Well, that is it for now as far as an update. I will get an updated FTS up when I get the tank back together. Thanks for reading and feel free to comment on anything you see/read here.


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

Man I'm really psyched to see this thing finished, I really love your plant life and the waterfall you constructed. We're building our vivs at the same time, but I just finished it off today. Can you throw me a few comments or anything? appreciate it!

http://flickr.com/photos/maverick3x6/sets/72157606615963752/


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Hey Maverick, I left you a comment on your Flickr page. Do you have a build thread here? If not you should start one. Your viv looks great and will be VERY nice when it grows in. What are the plans for it?

*** Nevermind, I just saw that you started one. ***


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Tank is back together and the water feature seems to be working better. Here are a couple pictures of the new tank...

Right Side









Center









Left Side









Full Tank


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Can anyone offer some planting suggestions? I know that I need to allow some grow in time, but all in all, I am just not feeling it right now. I do need to get some stuff on the back wall. Suggestions? I am hoping the ivy takes off and does ok. Someone earlier seemed to think that it won't do so well in the tank but so far so good, but it is still pretty early. Thanks for any feedback I can get.


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

I think mostly 1) ya need some nice dense leaf litter and 2) some plant life in your water feature area 
I'm really not much of an ivy fan and I think they are usually more a temperate plant but I guess it's worth a try.
I think I would suggest getting another clump of one of the plants you already have in there, is there a planting space in the back/left side "above" the fountain? It kind of looks like it but I can't tell. Maybe one more clump of that caladium-ish stuff and put it towards the front right in front of the left side of that driftwood, next to the water area?


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## Sarkany (Mar 11, 2008)

pet-teez said:


> I'm really not much of an ivy fan and I think they are usually more a temperate plant but I guess it's worth a try.


I've had ivy in my tank for some time now and it seems to me that the plant's growing slower than normally - I could be mistaken though. Well, at least it's not doing bad per se.

The Syngonium is a fast grower - I'm not sure you want that right in the middle of your terrarium. 
The Adiantum positively hates having water directly on its leaves - spraying "around" it is better (although, if you manage to keep the thing alive, that'll be an achievement of its own :roll: that plant is a total wimp).

As for ground plants: Spathiphyllum (the small kind) is a very nice plant. Nice, glossy leaves, the frogs love to hide beneath it when something seems "hinky" to them, and best of all it's very hardy, about the hardiest plant I've ever had. IMO every pdf tank should have at least one Spathiphyllum! :wink: :lol: 

The tank will look more natural if you put several plants of the same kind in it. Also, some moss and a few leaves (oak, maybe?) will go a long way in making the ground seem less "clean". 

As for the background: flat backgrounds can be a pain... Epiphytes are the way to go there - broms and ferns, basically (well, that just sounded so helpful it made me wince ).


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## Sarkany (Mar 11, 2008)

pet-teez said:


> I think I would suggest getting another clump of one of the plants you already have in there, is there a planting space in the back/left side "above" the fountain? It kind of looks like it but I can't tell. Maybe one more clump of that caladium-ish stuff and put it towards the front right in front of the left side of that driftwood, next to the water area?


Huh? :? There's no Caladium in there that I can see...


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Sarkany said:


> The Adiantum positively hates having water directly on its leaves - spraying "around" it is better (although, if you manage to keep the thing alive, that'll be an achievement of its own :roll: that plant is a total wimp).


Funny you say that as it is already on its deathbed. Perhaps I should cut the loss and move the Syngonium to that spot. It is doing well and my favorite plant in the tank right now. I'll also check you other recommendations and I do have a bunch of oak leaves. I was just waiting to add them until I get the planting situated.


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

Sorry, it's a syngonium...



Sarkany said:


> Huh? :? There's no Caladium in there that I can see...


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## Amphiman (Nov 8, 2007)

It looks pretty bare....Add some leaf litter...It's amazing how leaf litter can transform a tank....you should plant swiss cheese plant also  .....I'm hooked on the stuff..


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

I'd recommend sphagnum moss (alive) for a ground cover (you've seen it in the photos of my tank) I bought some from a woman on ebay who is also on these forums... 7 bux for a 1 gallon sized ziplock bagged STUFFED. It's definitely helped retain moisture in my substrate and my plants are thriving after a week. 

also... if you're looking for some new plants...

http://www.exoticangel.com/Varieties/

Most are sold at home depot and lowes. I have a ton of them

Enjoy!


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Few more updated photos including the finally working water feature.


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## morselchip (Jul 17, 2008)

WOW! That's looking great


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

I can't wait to see some mushrooms sprouting from that driftwood. haha


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## vivariman (Sep 26, 2007)

Wow! That is great. You might want to add a creeping/vining plant to grow up the wall.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Actually if you look to the left of the stump you will see some ivy and there is some more ivy in the very middle as well as to the far right. I was told that they might not do well so I have to see. They seem to be really healthy at this point but I don't know if they will grow much. Also coming out of the stump is baby tears which is supposed to be a nice climbing/spreading plant. Hopefully this time next month everything has some growth on it as I am planning to get my frogs then as long as the tank is stable and I have a handle on culturing FF's. I do plan to order a few more plants on Monday to fill in a little more.


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## knuckles4696 (Jun 23, 2008)

why not try some creeping fig? it grows pretty fast as long as you keep her wet. also maybe some more broms on the background? i also use alot of pothos or philodendrom to fill spots up i find it very pretty especially golden pothos. also ive been using polka dot plants in one tank and its taking off. i love te tank so far its so much ground space wow some terribs. are gonna be very lucky good luck!


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Yeah, I thought about another brom or two attached to the rear/side panel. I will check in to the creeping fig and maybe remove the ivy that is in there now and turn it in to a house plant. I really like the Syngonium that I have so I may get a couple more of them in a different variety and perhaps another fern or two. I don't want it to get to crazy and over grown but it still needs some more stuff in there to fill in. Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I will check in to them. I like the idea of the polka dot plant too.


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## knuckles4696 (Jun 23, 2008)

if you need broms at a good price you should give tudies jungle a shot. i use her for all my broms in my tanks i have pics of them up in a thread ere in this section. i know flyingleap also bought from her, also with pics. as for the polka dot plant i think i found it at a loews? dont quote me but it should be relatively easy to find check em out in my thread if youd like. anyway once again goodluck!


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Wow - your viv is looking great. 
Candy


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

New plants in today from Josh's Frogs. Just like last time, everything arrived in great shape. Did a little rearranging as well. Let me know what you think...


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## Amphiman (Nov 8, 2007)

Lookin good...


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

"Oh my God
Welcome to the jungle, we've got fun n games "

haha... lookin' great man...


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

maverick3x6 said:


> "Oh my God
> Welcome to the jungle, we've got fun n games "
> 
> haha... lookin' great man...


Ha ha ha....Thanks. I am done planting for sure. Time to let it grow. I am hoping that it works out as is because I really like the plants but I am afraid that I will probably have to remove something or at least do heavy pruning because I figure it is going to grow in really thick. I guess we'll say. All in all I am pretty happy with it especially being my first viv. I have learned a lot and I am ready for another one already...lol


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

it's contagious man, it really is... I started with a basic terrarium a few years ago... then you're like "let's add water." So I added an exo-terra waterfall & fogger... Then this year I was like "let's make a pond and a real waterfall." So I did the paludarium. Now I'm like... "let's aquascape!" Needless to say, my family members think I've lost my mind... but I don't mind having a South American rain forest in my house. haha


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

It may get to the point where I will just have an extra room built when we build our new house next year. How does a 12'x12'x10' vivarium sound? :lol:


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

hahaha... that's balls to the wall... will you offer tours? it's a 13ish hour drive for me, but I'll do it!


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## stoph (May 10, 2008)

Go for it 
I'm dreaming of having a big green wall









(from manhattanplant)

or
http://www.greenfortune.com/plantwall.php


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## keekalmatter (Aug 9, 2008)

thats amazing
Do they keep animals in there? It looks like they could roam free around the building if there are.


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## stoph (May 10, 2008)

I guess there are no animals in there - but it wouldn't be that difficult to accommodate a part of it as a vivarium.

http://www.manhattanplant.com/NewYorkLivingWall.html

or just google for plant wall.


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

well I mean... that's obviously my next immersive project. haha


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, the water feature is becoming frustrating. I may just scrap altogether. Perhaps it is because I used an off brand of silicon (DAP) instead of GE, but it seems like this stuff will not cure. I gave the feature a couple days after I did some repair work but the silicon today in on spot in the middle of the flowing water came off and underneath was a bunch of uncured silicon that came out in the water fouling it. So now I have to empty the water and replace that not to mention repairing or replacing the water feature. I think I will do a styrofoam and mortar rock feature this time and give it a full several weeks to cure before placing it in the tank. Luckily I built the current feature in such a way I can just lift it out in one piece....thank goodness :? I will definitely continue the write up as I construct the new feature. Any one with tips or ideas feel free to post them up. Thanks everyone for looking.


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## maverick3x6 (Jul 31, 2008)

Try going with some Aquarium grade silicone... which you can pick up at any aquarium store really... was good to go in 2 days even... I mean if it's good enough to hold glass tanks together, I think it'd be good for that waterfall of yours. Try your best to salvage that thing, it looks really good.


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## crentania (Jul 22, 2008)

Ouch! That is frustrating! I've noticed that for me, in order for things to cure well, I have to make sure that there's not direct air flow on them. It sounds weird, I know, but I had two items that I had sealed with some GE II and I had one sitting directly under the fan (cuz I wanted it dry NOW dangit!) and the other was off in another corner, and the one off by its lonesome actually was done faster. I've also seen that the clear stuff cures much faster than the black or brown. So if I'm in a hurry, I go clear.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Odd that you say that because I did some repairs on my water feature last week and I used a fan to quicken the curing process and I thought I was good to go and that is exactly the part that has failed, the area that I used a fan to help cure. I guess it is a good lesson learned. I wonder if heat (sitting out in sun) would help or hurt. I think that if I do keep this feature I will just use clear as well. But I still think I might just start over and make the styro/mortar feature, if I can find the styrofoam.


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## crentania (Jul 22, 2008)

Someone else around here had a good idea for the sytrofoam - go to your local computer repair place and ask if they have any leftover packing styro. Or just about any store that does displays, or sets things up for customers. Probably tons better than buying the stuff 

And yeah, I couldn't say about the heat, I've done it in my basement at 72F and I've done it in my garage at 95F, seems about the same on both fronts.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I'll try that.

On another note, I think I have switched back to my original plan of getting a group of leucs. Reason is after doing some more research on the terribilis, I think that feeding them may be more of a hassle than I want to deal with right now. I have read that after they get closer to full grown often times FF are not accepted and larger food has to be offered. That would not be a huge deal but I am not sure I want to cultivate crickets and I cannot afford to buy them weekly/bi-weekly. So I may go with the smaller leucs since I already have my FF cultures up and running. Not 100% on that yet. I still need to research cricket cultivation to see how much is involved in that.


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## kevin72bearvly (Aug 9, 2008)

Hey Nubster, 
I was just looking at your tank. Awesome job. On the silicone problem. It has to be 100% silicone. GE makes one in black and clear. It's called Silicone II and below that says 100% silicone sealant (it's a white tube with blue, black, and gold front label). It works great. Aquarium sealant is the same stuff but more expensive. I worked in the aquarium trade for more than 15 years so I know a few tricks of the trade.
Good luck, Kevin


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I actually bought that the first time for part of my feature as well as the non water section on the opposite side of the tank and it seems to be working great. But when I ran out I picked up a couple tubes of the DAP brand because I thought it was the same stuff but less expensive and it is garbage. At least for this application it is. So I guess I need to take out the water feature and try to peel off the crappy silicon and re-do with the good stuff. Or just remake the entire feature which may be easier. Thanks for the info and I will definitely heed your advise.


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

Hey Chad,
Did you carve down the expanding foam for your water feature? If not you may want to take an exacto knife and carve the very top layer off before your re-apply silicone...I have found that no matter what kind of silicone I use, it will not stick to the foam very well unless you take off the slick outer layer and then apply the silicone to the more course inside layers.. 
Ps. Great job on the planting of your viv!

Chris


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, the silicon is failing on both the parts that are carved and uncarved. I think it is just a combo of lesser quality silicon and not enough curing time, even though I let it cure for over 24 hours and closer to 48 before letting the water run. I will give it one more try I guess. I am getting ready to go to Lowe's so I am going to price styrofoam and mortar and compare that to GS and silicon and see if the price is comparable. If so I might go that route.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Nubster said:


> So I may go with the smaller leucs since I already have my FF cultures up and running. Not 100% on that yet.


Well, I have decided to stay with the terribilis. So until I change my mind again that is the plan. I have also started construction on a new and hopefully improved water feature since the silicon is failing on the first one. As soon as it is up and running I will get pictures of it. Other than that, nothing new. Plants are doing well and starting to fill in. A couple weeks and I should be ready for frogs.


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## crentania (Jul 22, 2008)

Good luck with the new water feature!  Just chalk the first one up to a big learning experience.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

New feature is complete but not installed. I wanted to give it full week or more to cure. Frogs have been sourced and will be ordered for delivery next week (five p. terribilis mints from Josh's Frogs). I had rotator cuff surgery today so my arm is dead from the nerve block but I should be able to get the new feature in this week and be ready for frogs next week. They will be in quarantine for a month or so, so that still gives me time to get things in the tank 100%.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Frogs ordered, should be here Tuesday !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## crentania (Jul 22, 2008)

Yay! Grats! Have fun with the Terribs  Hope all goes well in their journey.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Congrats Nubster. It has been fun following your experience with the viv building & ff. I am excited for you. I remember the day I was getting my first frogs.. I took the day off and was wide awake before 6am. Then the time from then to 10:30 (when the package was due to be delivered by) seemed like an eternity. My dogs seemed to bark at anything that moved that morning so I was running to the door every few minutes. I think I drove the people on this board crazy with my posts while I was waiting. Please post pictures of your little ones (after they get settled in of course). This whole thing about not peeking in on them every few minutes or having your eyes glued to the glass is very hard to do. I think my azureus thought 2 big ole moving eyeballs was part of the decoration in her QT tank. 
Candy


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

lol...yeah, it's going to be hard, especially since I don't have a q-tank. I am using plastic boxes so I can't even look in on them often because that would require taking the top off too much. It is going to drive me crazy  It will be worth it though. I will grab some shots of them when they arrive for sure. I'll be a proud papa no doubt 8)


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Wooo Hooo !!!!! They're HERE !!!! How exciting. My first frogs. They are in QT now. I grabbed a shot or two. This is one of the frogs emerging from it's transport cup...I can't wait to get these guys in their new home.










Not sure what I was expecting but I was very surprised at how little these boogers are...


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Congratulations. It is shocking just how small they really are but they will get to be a nice size later 
Candy


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Not much has changed. Frogs still in quarantine and doing well. Tank growing in nicely. Figure I would throw up an updated picture that I took a few minutes ago. Other than that, nothing to report. And yeah, the ivy in the right corner is about done for. Need to find something to replace it with that will climb and attach itself to the coco panel. Any suggestions?


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## heaventreeofstars (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey Chad, 

How much longer are you going to have the mints in QT? The tank is going to look awesome by the time they get out.

David


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Well, I plan on having them in QT at least a month possibly more. I still need to get the first fecal out.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

Looking good  

My Pothos has been climbing and attaching itself to my tree fern panel all over. If you want something with smaller leaves I'm going to be trying out some Peperomia Green Scandens cuttings that I got from a co-workers office plant.

I would say any of the "vines" that are on the sponsors sites would work.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Still nothing new. Frogs still in QT. Sending out first fecals on Monday. Took some new pictures so I'll post one up to keep this thread alive...lol


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## allyn (Oct 6, 2008)

Nubster said:


> Still nothing new. Frogs still in QT. Sending out first fecals on Monday. Took some new pictures so I'll post one up to keep this thread alive...lol


w8, your sending their turds somewhere? Where and why?


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

allyn said:


> w8, your sending their turds somewhere? Where and why?


It's off topic but I'll save the experienced froggers a post and reply from what I've read.

Sending out fecals for testing is a good idea to do with any new frog. It's like taking your dog or cat to the vet for the first time for a checkup. Since this cannot be done with a PDF (or shouldn't be done) fecal testing is the next best thing.

Fecal testing checks for some, not all, parasites and diseases to insure that you aren't introducing your frog who has parasites into a vivarium, contaminating the vivarium, having such frog die, introducing new frog who even if they didn't have parasites before does now and they die as well until you figure out it's your vivarium (EDIT) which is contaminated and killing all your frogs as it was contaminated with the first frog.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Still not much to update. First fecal results are in and my frogs have hookworm. Not bad but they are there. Calling Dr. Frye tomorrow to order the meds so I will get treatment started next week. So another month of QT at least. Sucks but it is for the best.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Long time no update. Two frogs dead, two more failing. Not sure what to do. Fecals hopefully to go out to Dr. Frye tomorrow if there are any to collect. One frog out of five doing well and placed in the viv yesterday. Viv doing great. Here is a shot of it grown out some more.










Couple shots of the lone frog in its nice big home...


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Another update...two sick frogs placed in the viv with the healthy frog and they did a complete 180 and are doing GREAT now. Getting fat and eating very well. Active and often out in the open. Here are a couple more grow out shots and a shot of the healthy frog and one of the fattening sick frogs. I am very pleased at the moment. And sorry about the clarity of the frogs...I had to shoot through very foggy glass.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

It is so good to hear they are doing better.
Candy


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Here is a shot I took today top down of the larger of the two "sick" frogs. Still a bit on the thin side but imagine it literally twice as thin a couple weeks ago. I wish I would have taken some before shots but I felt so bad and honestly I was embarrassed at my inability to keep my frogs healthy I did not really want a reminder of my failure. But now that things are looking MUCH better I don't mind shooting them...


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## EricT (Nov 10, 2007)

It is impressive how the viv has shaped up from initial set-up to the last grown in shots...Looks great! Do you have any updates on the frogs?


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## NickBoudin (Nov 3, 2007)

Sorry about all the problems with your frogs!

Glad to see your viv is up and running, I remember you being there when I was constructing mine originaly. I'm loving how filled in yours turned out, and how your patience has paied off!

Lookin good!
Nick


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I haven't been here for a long time but i thought I would drop by and say hi. All the frogs died not very long after the last post here. Never figured out what happened. Tank conditions were good, feed them as they should have been fed...there were some health issues and after several meds from Dr. Frye and nothing seemed to work they just died. I tried all I could. Tank is still up and growing, very overgrown in fact. Not sure what I am going to do with it...thinking about getting something alive in there but I don't think I want to or am ready to try to tackle pdf's again. Here is an updated tank shot from last night...just thought it would be neat to see how it has grown in the last year.


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## Howiedoit (Oct 29, 2009)

Take all the time you need


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

if you don't want darts what about red eye tree frogs or day geckos


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