# Snake Ban



## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

Some of you may have heard that there is new legislation to ban the keeping and breeding of some kinds of snakes. Mostly pythons at this point but that this bill will do is give momentum to groups like HSUS and PETA to move on to other groups. We need to keep this from happening.

What can you do? Simple. Click the link below. It will take you to USARK's web page and a simple letter that is already written for you. All you need to do is fill in your Zip you name and it will send copies of the letter to your congressman/woman.

Two minutes of your time to stand up for your hobby and your pets.

EMAIL: Tell the US Senate to Stop the Python Ban! | United States Association of Reptile Keepers

*Remember you can fill this out for each member of your home. All you need is a separate email address and name. I filled it out 3 times.


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## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

'5,978 Letters Sent So Far'


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Sent......I was the 61st from Michigan to send.


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## M_Rybecky (Mar 16, 2009)

100th in NewYork!!!!!


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## eldalote2 (Jun 3, 2009)

261st in Florida!


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## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

Thanks guys! Please remember to repost on other forums/clubs/groups you are members of.

I know for a fact this this is posted on Pangeareptile.com, cornsnakes.com and here. I also sent out blast emails to my herp club and posted on facebook.


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## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

Just posted this to CL. Im wondering how long till it gets flagged??? Please feel free to use it to spread the word and post how you see fit.... You may want to change the 'OR' to your state though. 


Snake Ban.

Some of you may not like snake or pythons. Thats fine as well as your choice. Problem is that some groups are trying to keep people who enjoy keeping them as pets from doing so. Why? Well, because in one small area in southern FL they can survive in the wild if they get out. Is FL weather anything like here in OR? No. Can these animals survive here in OR with out a keeper and a heated cage? No. Can they populate on there own? No. So why should we not be allowed to keep them? No reason besides some people wanting to take more control of our lives and tell us what we can and cant do. 

This issue is a state problem not a federal one. How will this bill affect you if you don't keep or ever plan to keep snakes and reptiles? In a nut shell, this bill is also a stepping stone to other animals. The group/s supporting this bill want and plan on making it illegal to keep any kind of pet or live stock. Yes, that is their goal. Help the smaller groups like reptile keepers from loosing their rights and you help yourself by stopping it here. 

Please if you keep any form of pets consider taking the min to attach your name to the petition below. Thats all it takes.

EMAIL: Tell the US Senate to Stop the Python Ban! | United States Association of Reptile Keepers

Thank you so very very much.


*this is in no way breaking any rules and should not be flagged. Please be kind.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I'm sorry but some of these snakes are like loaded guns, you combine that with really stupid people and you can see eco systems in parts of the country wiped out. If you could put regulations in place that mean they only stay with people responsible enough to keep them, I could support that. The government protecting us from ourselves...DUI checkpoints come to mind, ban those and keep your snakes.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

38th from CT.

John


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## Gumby (May 27, 2010)

60th in MD!


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

markpulawski said:


> I'm sorry but some of these snakes are like loaded guns, you combine that with really stupid people and you can see eco systems in parts of the country wiped out. If you could put regulations in place that mean they only stay with people responsible enough to keep them, I could support that. The government protecting us from ourselves...DUI checkpoints come to mind, ban those and keep your snakes.


In which parts of the country can these snakes establish in the wild, other than South Florida or Hawaii?


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

markpulawski said:


> I'm sorry but some of these snakes are like loaded guns, you combine that with really stupid people and you can see eco systems in parts of the country wiped out. If you could put regulations in place that mean they only stay with people responsible enough to keep them, I could support that. The government protecting us from ourselves...DUI checkpoints come to mind, ban those and keep your snakes.


Than the stupid people who live in Florida and buy these snakes and then release them after they can`t fit in a 10 gallon anymore should be regulated.

John


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## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

6,111 Letters Sent So Far


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## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Than the stupid people who live in Florida and buy these snakes and then release them after they can`t fit in a 10 gallon anymore should be regulated.
> 
> John



Im all for making breeder get permitting for them but it has to be something actually attainable and cost worthy. $100 permit + a 2 page form. Maybe even facility checks. But telling us we all are too stupid and no exceptions is just lame.


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## tstratton (Apr 18, 2010)

58th to participate in MA


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Who said anything about everyone beeing too stupid to keep the snakes, plenty of people are responsible enough however that only leaves about 100,000,000 that are not. I personally would like to have my own Nuke, for when the Sarasota streets get too crowded in winter....ooops became part of the problem didn't I. I have no problem with the government banning something that can grow to 12' and kill an adult!!! When they put dart frogs on the list I will join the fight.
But more importantly is my right to keep these species more important than potentially wiping out native species where they could be released by irresponsible keepers? Burrowing Owls are under tremendous pressure by man, throw in the large moniters now roaming central Florida and south and disaster looms. If you say this does not effect your area of the country then great but here in Florida it is a real and will be a very expensive problem for a long time to come.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Than the stupid people who live in Florida and buy these snakes and then release them after they can`t fit in a 10 gallon anymore should be regulated.
> 
> John


Not sure what you are trying to say here but it seems like you just agreed with me.


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

I was the 26th person from Kansas to sign the petition! 

Keep it going guys!

-Matt


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## Tomdarr (Aug 25, 2010)

Looks like I was the 18th from WV.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

35th from Oklahoma(Emails only). $9 for 3 mailed letters? Wow, someone is making some money off this


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

markpulawski said:


> When they put dart frogs on the list I will join the fight.
> QUOTE]
> 
> not to be an extremist, but let's not forget the words of pastor martin niemoeller:
> ...


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Mark I can't beleive you feel that way. The snakes are only the beginning , lizards are next and so on down the line. We all as herpkeepers should act as one or we will surely fall one at a time, No Intelligent person after reviewing the facts and info and history of the parties involved and past acts of the wacko groups, can say we are all not targets. I love the owls, but as a lifelong Floridian I can tell you the biggest danger is asphalt, concrete, coyotes and habitat destruction, society preserves wildlife and gets there warm and fuzzy feeling until the people in charge are bought, and the land use changed.The real story behind the Burms is Factually known that after DNA testing the feral burms are closely related to each other and of lineage that has not been imported in many many years,they due match up to lineage that was released as a result of hurricane Andrew in 92,I get real frustrated with people that still think people are releasing burms all over Florida, Don't believe the media misinformation, they report what they are told to, most don't research any more.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I don't believe burms are that much of a problem in FL as so many believe. If you knew the facts then you would understand that in the everglades there are niches of the glades that contain Cobras and other wildlife that has been banned for years yet we all know of the burms. I having lived in FL use to go into streams and rivers and had more issues with alligators. As Bill said during hurricane Andrew was when most of the burms and other wild life were "released" but in truth when Andrew came through it destroyed pet shops which in return had tons of escapees. More then just burms got out  Look up the species that are not native to Florida.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

I was #259 from Fl, and sent letters. Has everyone also been making contact with Dc in ref. to the chytrid ban?


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

> But more importantly is my right to keep these species more important than potentially wiping out native species where they could be released by irresponsible keepers? Burrowing Owls are under tremendous pressure by man, throw in the large moniters now roaming central Florida and south and disaster looms. If you say this does not effect your area of the country then great but here in Florida it is a real and will be a very expensive problem for a long time to come.


I'm not looking to have a long argument, but I'll say briefly:

Why are so many amphibians in trouble? Chytrid. How did chytrid spread? People. Specifically, people trading and keeping frogs whether laboratory, frog leg farming, or average pet keepers.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

You may not have wanted an argument Rain Frog but you started one. What you've said it factually incorrect. The biggest danger to amphibians in general is habitat destruction followed closely by the effects of global warming changing habitat.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Vermfly, lets keep in mind global warming happens also on a natural level, in other words it has happened in Earth history before without man, therefore I for one am skeptical of Gores propaganda in my opinion. I think if it were as real as he says and he is devoted as he claims he would give up his lavish lifestyle.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ya climate change is natural (though we may be helping it along)...as are extinctions, which we are definitely helping along. We could probably wipe out 90%+ of the species on earth and guess what...the earth wouldn't care. Whatever survived would adapt and fill various niches and natural selection/evolution would go from there and life would go on. We on the other hand being heavily dependent on so many other lifeforms would likely be screwed  Which is a good incentive for preventing further damage where we can, and correcting damage done when possible, but it has to be done with some kind of balance and at the cost of personal freedom only when absolutely necessary, (and I don't think that it is in this case).

Anyways as I see it we've meddled...we've meddled for so long and so badly that the only thing to do is keep meddling. We've cast our lot with science and tech, and I think those will eventually be the things that save us, or at least make it easier to let our better natures prevail instead of being overly selfish/destructive. To late to go back, at least until we learn how to have a completely "green" civilization. Until then I guess we should limit the damage as much as reasonably possible...I'm just not sure banning snakes across the country qualifies. More restrictions may be needed in areas where they are more likely to be a longterm threat if released into the environment, but blanket laws are not the answer. Basically it boils down to people who have no interests in these hobbies not caring how their actions effect others. People wanting something done, anything...but not giving much thought to how practical it is, or even if it will likely be as successful as they hope, and if not is it really worth the costs. 

I'm all for saving species/habitat, even at the expense of screwing over some people in the process but the desired effect here could be achieved through better tactics, and more specific laws and better enforcement of current laws and any new ones. If they passed this it may have some of the effect they want but you'd also create an underground snake hobby/trade. I doubt the hobby would die, and I doubt they'll provide the funds and man power necessary for effective enforcement. These efforts could be better spent else where doing more good for animals, habitats and people.

Like these efforts...
https://www.animalsasia.org/donate/index.php?Frontpage
Performing Animal Welfare Society -- PAWS
Projects - Free the Bears.Org
Sponsor a Bear - donate monthly | Wildlife SOS
Adopt a bear - how to adopt a bear as a gift | Ekklesia
International Animal Rescue - Bear rescue and rehabilitation

Lets us sell snakes so we can save the bears!!!!


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

markpulawski said:


> Not sure what you are trying to say here but it seems like you just agreed with me.


I did agree with you Mark
I realized that after I posted.

John


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

76th in TN


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

OK here's the deal...do I believe big snakes should be banned...a resounding NO!!! Just like DUI check points and everything else the gvmnt try's to do legislating and regulating our freedom. America was born and grew to the strongest nation in the world based on the concept of freedom and citizen rights. More laws and legislation AKA more gvmnt means only 1 thing, more $$$ from me to pay for it. But we have to ask ourselves why? Are there 100% safegaurds, never however putting some rules in place to seems necessary when it comes to thing's that are potentially injurious on a large scale.
Liscencing keepers of these snakes and registering them perhaps is the only way, taxing them to pay for aftermath cleanup...possibly. 
Nice to get fired up over something isn't it...no no no don't thank me! 
heheheh


oh yes and trust me Sarah i was not calling you stupid, if your smart enought to get this thread rolling your far smarter than the ones I was referring to...you know the ones ER mentioned, cuz there's plenty of those...and i believe a few live just north of FLA as well.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Lunar Gecko said:


> Im all for making breeder get permitting for them but it has to be something actually attainable and cost worthy. $100 permit + a 2 page form. Maybe even facility checks. But telling us we all are too stupid and no exceptions is just lame.


I did not say ''we are all too stupid''.

John


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

They were right next to pythons on the New York State Law list and I got them removed here. You might want to check, I'd not trust that they weren't. Or you may want to see if they can add anything they want as they see fit.



epiphytes etc. said:


> markpulawski said:
> 
> 
> > When they put dart frogs on the list I will join the fight.
> ...


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

billschwinn said:


> Vermfly, lets keep in mind global warming happens also on a natural level, in other words it has happened in Earth history before without man, therefore I for one am skeptical of Gores propaganda in my opinion. I think if it were as real as he says and he is devoted as he claims he would give up his lavish lifestyle.


It does but the recent trends are showing that this round is anthropogenic. You attempt to marginalize it by referring to Al Gore derogatively but thousands of scientists all agree it is happening and we are causing it. Stop watching Fox News and poisoning your mind with the garbage on conservative talk radio.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Vermfly said:


> It does but the recent trends are showing that this round is anthropogenic. You attempt to marginalize it by referring to Al Gore derogatively but thousands of scientists all agree it is happening and we are causing it. Stop watching Fox News and poisoning your mind with the garbage on conservative talk radio.


LOL...But it's OK to create a point of view based on agenda driven science?

Has nothing to do with Fox news or conservative radio nice try though. Ever ask yourself why those that push the "science" are also the ones that are going to make billions off investments based on the very science they push? I am not willing to say we don't play a role, but I will not say we are the cause either cause none of the facts prove it out beyond a doubt. There has never been a study that has proven human finger prints are the cause. There are far more important things we can do right now and spend billions on other then trying and create the idea of CO2 being a pollutant, which it is not....Like land use, real pollution, run off, which has a far greater effect on the enviornment etc....All of those can be done right here and now with out shady, shotty science and scientist.


Back on topic

One reason they push for all out bans is because it is easier then having to spend the money doing real research and cost analysis of environmental factors if other means of regulation are implemented. Also they shoot for all out bans and if they don't get it, they use incremental steps to eventually get there figuring if they go for broke and lose they have something to build on with the legislation that is implemented.....They are not fools, they know it can't be done all at once.....It's called creeping incrementalism....They have been trying to do that for years in the reefing hobby with the same tactics, luckily there are those within the reefing hobby with scientific backgrounds and research to help defend the hobby.


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## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

Im the 19th person from WV to fill it out


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Vermfly said:


> It does but the recent trends are showing that this round is anthropogenic. You attempt to marginalize it by referring to Al Gore derogatively but thousands of scientists all agree it is happening and we are causing it. Stop watching Fox News and poisoning your mind with the garbage on conservative talk radio.


Actually, I was not being derogative about Gore, it only seems that way until you research his way of life as he tells us to make sacrifice. Also, he has made a lucrative career out of his agenda driven science. Just for your info, I do watch fox, but also a little ABC and CNN to round it out. But really I like my info Non Sugar Coated, with no kool-aid.The radio I listen to is Metal!


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Or by frogs hidden in plants, which are much more likely to get nto the wild after shipping then a frog destined for a terrarium. or in streams or on birds carrying frogs, or tads scooped up and sent out in fish bait shipments or on salamanders used for fish bait, etc.etc. since it has rapidly spread over countries that have nothing resembling a pet trade.
Is that short enough?



Rain_Frog said:


> I'm not looking to have a long argument, but I'll say briefly:
> 
> Why are so many amphibians in trouble? Chytrid. How did chytrid spread? People. Specifically, people trading and keeping frogs whether laboratory, frog leg farming, or average pet keepers.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Hi Aaron,

That is why I mentioned laboratories (think xenopus) and frog leg farming-- the list is exhausting.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I agree and unfortunately a lot of transmission vectors are completely out of our control.


Rain_Frog said:


> Hi Aaron,
> 
> That is why I mentioned laboratories (think xenopus) and frog leg farming-- the list is exhausting.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I'm all for banning idiots from owning big snakes. and whats the point of this, we all know these automated campaigns are worthless. if you really care WRITE a letter, call, or visit their office.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

> I'm all for banning idiots from owning big snakes. and whats the point of this, we all know these automated campaigns are worthless. if you really care WRITE a letter, call, or visit their office.


Yup. I'm surprised that this topic has received more responses than the one I posted about how to write to the USFWS about the chytrid ban-- the ban that pertains to THIS side of the herp hobby...


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

markpulawski said:


> I'm sorry but some of these snakes are like loaded guns, you combine that with really stupid people and you can see eco systems in parts of the country wiped out. *If you could put regulations in place that mean they only stay with people responsible enough to keep them*, I could support that. The government protecting us from ourselves...DUI checkpoints come to mind, ban those and keep your snakes.


The problem is that the government has neither the money nor the time, nor do they care to enforce/regulate on that level... it's just easier for them to flat out ban. Also, the areas where ecosystems can be wiped out are limited to 5-6 states... so if they're going to do it, it should be on a state level, not nationally.


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## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

markpulawski said:


> OK here's the deal...do I believe big snakes should be banned...a resounding NO!!! Just like DUI check points and everything else the gvmnt try's to do legislating and regulating our freedom. America was born and grew to the strongest nation in the world based on the concept of freedom and citizen rights. More laws and legislation AKA more gvmnt means only 1 thing, more $$$ from me to pay for it. But we have to ask ourselves why? Are there 100% safegaurds, never however putting some rules in place to seems necessary when it comes to thing's that are potentially injurious on a large scale.
> Liscencing keepers of these snakes and registering them perhaps is the only way, taxing them to pay for aftermath cleanup...possibly.
> Nice to get fired up over something isn't it...no no no don't thank me!
> heheheh
> ...


You should think of it this way. If it was just a bill making them illegal to keep in FL that would be one thing but this is a federal thing. Why? Plus this is ten time worse because they are adding them to the Lacey Act.


6,661 Letters Sent So Far


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

tclipse said:


> The problem is that the government has neither the money nor the time, nor do they care to enforce/regulate on that level... it's just easier for them to flat out ban. Also, the areas where ecosystems can be wiped out are limited to 5-6 states... so if they're going to do it, it should be on a state level, not nationally.


which states? Florida and Hawaii. Some of the Western States are warm enough, but I don't see a humidity loving python surviving in the Sonoran desert.


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

frogfarm said:


> Or by frogs hidden in plants, which are much more likely to get nto the wild after shipping then a frog destined for a terrarium. or in streams or on birds carrying frogs, or tads scooped up and sent out in fish bait shipments or on salamanders used for fish bait, etc.etc. since it has rapidly spread over countries that have nothing resembling a pet trade.
> Is that short enough?


Do you really believe that these things are more responsible for the spread of chytrid than the pet trade? I wish that were true, but I just don't believe it. Unfortunately, I believe it makes a lot more sense to accept that the pet trade and the eating of amphibians by different cultures has spread chytrid. I don't think they should ban amphibians as pets, but to blame those other things as the primary reason is grasping at straws.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

tclipse said:


> The problem is that the government has neither the money nor the time, nor do they care to enforce/regulate on that level... it's just easier for them to flat out ban. Also, the areas where ecosystems can be wiped out are limited to 5-6 states... so if they're going to do it, it should be on a state level, not nationally.


Probabaly not 5 or 6 states but if it is even 1 and then those snakes can be driven into that state from anywhere would that not be too high a risk...ahem Lacey Act. Banned no but highly regulated & liscenced to keep these animals out of the hands of those not responsible enough to keep them.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Grasping at straws? How many plants have you recieved w/ amphibians in it? or SOIL which can transport chytrid. I have had both. How do you think chytrid is spread in places that don't eat or keep amphibs as pets? Streams flow and carry dead frogs, tads, water and chytrid.

You actually think eating frogs and keeping them as pets are the only way chytrid is spread?
Do you know what a scapegoat is?

Just one comment from the waa below. I suggest you read some of the comments on the petition:

The WAA recognizes the importance of efforts to protect amphibians in the United States and recognizes the harmful impacts Bd has on certain populations. However, WAA is in agreement with the National Association of Aquaculture (NAA) that it is debatable that Bd is the causative agent for amphibian declines as argued by Hayes et al. (2010). Especially since “Bd has been impacting amphibians in North America since 1961 and is so widely distributed throughout the country that it is considered endemic (Ouellet et al. 2005; Padgett-Flohr and Hopkins 2009; Vredenburg et al. 2010)”. 

The WAA concurs and is in full agreement with NAA in their letter dated November 5, 2010 to you which reviewed the literature on Bd which points out “that adding amphibians to the Injurious Species List will not slow or prevent disease spread or reduce the prevalence of the disease”. As pointed out, there are many other vectors and pathways associated with general human activity and work that could transmit Bd, such as moving of animals, water and moist soils. 





lincolnrailers said:


> Do you really believe that these things are more responsible for the spread of chytrid than the pet trade? I wish that were true, but I just don't believe it. Unfortunately, I believe it makes a lot more sense to accept that the pet trade and the eating of amphibians by different cultures has spread chytrid. I don't think they should ban amphibians as pets, but to blame those other things as the primary reason is grasping at straws.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

frogfarm said:


> Grasping at straws? How many plants have you recieved w/ amphibians in it? or SOIL which can transport chytrid. I have had both. How do you think chytrid is spread in places that don't eat or keep amphibs as pets? Streams flow and carry dead frogs, tads, water and chytrid.
> 
> You actually think eating frogs and keeping them as pets are the only way chytrid is spread?
> Do you know what a scapegoat is?


When I was around 14, I spent a few weeks with my grandparents in the Bay area. My grandmother took me to the local pharmacy and they were receiving an order of plants. I saw something hop out and ran across the parking lot and caught it. It was a red-eyed tree frog. I have no idea where the shipment came from but that frog lived with my cousins from the Bay area for about 4 or 5 years. Frogs can definitely be transported long distances with nursery plants.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I have had frogs come in on broms and have had anoles hatch out of potted plants, unfortunately all chytrid needs is the moist soil to be transported. Yes, lots of frogs visit nurseries, both before their shipped and after they get to their destination and there is a LOT more soil shipped around the country than frogs. And some of the nurseries I've worked at are at the tops or next to streams and if a peat pot plant dies it gets dumped over the edge next to the creek, where there are amphibians and water. I wonder how many non native pathogens(not only chytrid) get distributed that way?


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

Im not all for the feds telling us what we can and cant keep but when you have 9 non native species of boas,pythons and even yellow anacondas threatining a whole ecosystem its time to start regulating something a little better. Burmese pythons are breeding in florida and are estimated to have a population in the tens of thousands. Not to mention a third of the U.S. matches the climate needed for this snake to survive. So its more then just 5 or 6 States. Here is some of what they are finding out about these snakes.
Python Snakes, An Invasive Species In Florida, Could Spread To One Third Of US


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

The proposed bans on the larger snakes will not help. The majority of them down in FL are offspring of the ones that got loose years ago. I see no reason to punish hobbyists over an act of god. 
And as for putting restrictions on this hobby to stop the spread of chytrid it will not help as these frogs are not transported to uninfected areas and let go. It is the use of fishing bait, plants and soil and other more practical causes. How many people buy a potted plant and dump the soil outside. You may have just spread chytrid into an uninfected area. People who throw there viv plants and other dead foliage out are at risk of spreading chytrid. 
Frogs coming in on plant shipments are pretty common as I get a few calls a year from a friend who is a plant dept manager at lowes to come pick the frogs up when he finds them.

Michael


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Azurel said:


> It's called creeping incrementalism....They have been trying to do that for years in the reefing hobby with the same tactics, luckily there are those within the reefing hobby with scientific backgrounds and research to help defend the hobby.


What are they trying to do? This is the first Ive heard of people trying to ban saltwater aquariums.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

ghutch0203 said:


> Im not all for the feds telling us what we can and cant keep but when you have 9 non native species of boas,pythons and even yellow anacondas threatining a whole ecosystem its time to start regulating something a little better. Burmese pythons are breeding in florida and are estimated to have a population in the tens of thousands. Not to mention a third of the U.S. matches the climate needed for this snake to survive. So its more then just 5 or 6 States. Here is some of what they are finding out about these snakes.
> Python Snakes, An Invasive Species In Florida, Could Spread To One Third Of US


The study you reference is based on bad science. They wrote the study to fit the predetermined outcome, it was not peer reviewed, when other unbiased researchers reviewed it it was found to be not based on real science at all, you really need to research the science on this, check out PIJAC or USARK web sites and check for yourself,don't be fooled by govt misinformation, Bill


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Okapi said:


> What are they trying to do? This is the first Ive heard of people trying to ban saltwater aquariums.


Many groups have tried right now it's Center for Biological Diversity which also is one of the ones trying to shut down some if not all of the amphibian trade as well and many more petitions to the Feds.....That is to say that some of what they want isn't genuine in nature and should be discussed but nearsided in scope and application.


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## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

billschwinn said:


> ... The real story behind the Burms is Factually known that after DNA testing the feral burms are closely related to each other and of lineage that has not been imported in many many years,they due match up to lineage that was released as a result of hurricane Andrew in 92 ...


Anyone have a citation for this research? A literature search of numerous relevant databases has yielded no results for me.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

They DNA tested snakes in the 90's?


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

lincolnrailers said:


> which states? Florida and Hawaii. Some of the Western States are warm enough, but I don't see a humidity loving python surviving in the Sonoran desert.





markpulawski said:


> Probabaly not 5 or 6 states but if it is even 1 and then those snakes can be driven into that state from anywhere would that not be too high a risk...ahem Lacey Act. Banned no but highly regulated & liscenced to keep these animals out of the hands of those not responsible enough to keep them.


That figure was definitely on the high side, but snakes tend to be pretty adaptable and depending on species it's possible that some could survive in parts of southern Louisiana, as well as near water in southern TX, Cali, etc.. I think we've all seen at least one healthy ball python in a tank with much lower humidity than they're accustomed to in the wild, for example. 

That wasn't my point though, the point was that it should be regulated on a state level instead of nationally, which I think is pretty agreeable. 

Mark, I totally agree, but wish that the government A) cared enough and B) had the money to set up licensing/regulation for this, but I seriously doubt that they do. With niche hobbies like herp keepers, it's way easier for them to just ban/allow than go through the process of setting up a regulatory system for it. 

The ban on semi-automatic rifles (I use that phrase instead of "assault weapons" which is incredibly misleading IMO) in the 90's comes to mind... there are plenty of people who would have been qualified/responsible enough to keep them, but it was easier to smack the problem with the banstick than to set up a system similar to CCP permits for those who keep guns responsibly.

On a side note, (could be wrong, but from what I've seen/read) I'm surprised there has been so much more fuss over large snakes than hots in the past few years.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Just recieved an e-mail today from CT Senator Joeseph Lieberman.
In part and I quote-

''As you may know in Oct. 2008 Amanda Black, a 25 yr. old living in Virginia Beach was apparently strangled by her pet python.Later, medical examiners ruled that Black died of asphyxia, and there were signs of pressure around around her neck and chest.
Unfortunatly, this sad story is not an anomaly.
These creatures belong in their native habitat or in the controlled care of specialists.
In the wake of this attack and others, CT Attorney General Richard Blumenthal and Department of Environmental Protection Commissioner Gina Mcarthy announced legislation which would strengthen the existing laws regulating the private ownership of these dangerous snakes.
The bill classifies infractions as a Class A misdemeanor punishable by up to 1 year in prison and a $2,000 fine''
Blah blah blah.....

So much for Connecticut.

John


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

#73 in N.J.


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