# Terrestrial Thumbnail



## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Just a quick one...

Is there such a thing as a terrestrial thumbnail? If so what is it called?

Thanks


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

What do you mean by that?

Most darts are primarily terrestrial, they just happen to be able to climb periodically.

Someone will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the darts are an off-shoot of the hylids which is why they're able to do some climbing.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Sorry... what I mean by that is a thumbnail frog that would enjoy or thrive in a horizontal tank rather than a vertical.

Thanks


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## costaricalvr12 (Oct 5, 2006)

One is Dendrobates castaneoticus, this one spends the most time on the ground out of all the thumbanils. I'm not sure if I would put this guy in a horizantal tank though.


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## Max Power (Jul 22, 2006)

Yes your right most thumbs are arboreal. I know d. castaneoticus are terrestrial, maybe other people would have a better more common suggestion... I'm kinda new at this.

Edit: too slow :lol:

I see your in Ontario (hey neighbour ), you wont find any for sale in canada. I'd just bite the bullet and get an arboreal thumb... or just get a larger terrestrial dart.


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## costaricalvr12 (Oct 5, 2006)

Max Power said:


> you wont find any for sale in canada.


I bet Saurian would ship to you, check out his site 

http://www.saurian.net


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## Max Power (Jul 22, 2006)

I was told they are illigal in Canada... but it can't hurt to check with that vendor.


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## costaricalvr12 (Oct 5, 2006)

Technically, their illegal everywhere as they were smuggled in from Brazil, but their has been many breedings (the frogs around now are probably F10) since then that it doesn't matter. In fact I just saw them on display today. So id say you'd be fine if canada doesn't have a "special" law. Read http://saurian.net/htm05/frog_d_castaneoticus.html for more info.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions... didnt expect a reply so quickly.

What I am worried about is the frogs not being happy to do what they usually do. I want to have happy frogs. If there is no thumbnail that will go in my tank I will just go for my original idea of Leucs or Auratus.

Thanks a BUNCH.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Reticulatus are fine with a terrestial setup although they will climb up in the plants daily. I have my retics in a 29 gallon regular. Castis as noted will also do fine in a terrestial setup.

Actually most thumbnails will do fine provided they have at least a modest amount of space to climb. Our breeding group of 5 standard vents are in a 29 gallon regular and they've thrived for 1.5 years now, easily producing over 100 offspring. I have a number of other thumbs in 15 gallon high setups (not really that high if you think about it) - once again with good breeding results.

Personally I've concluded that vertical vivs are not necessary although they do save on floor space. I've also noticed that most thumbnails spend a fair amount of time on the viv floor provided there is a good amount of floor space.

Good luck. Better to go with an established thumb in Canada (talk to Mark Pepper at Understory).

Bill


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

All the thumbnails I've seen in the wild have been more or less terrestrial. They'll climb to 2-3 feet, but usually stay close to the ground. As long as you don't have it just flat, they'll probably be fine and dandy.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Well, my background has plenty of space to climb. I have driftwood poking out all over the background (spent over $500 on driftwood just for the background, looks awesome). That would give plenty of climbing area (in terms of 3D area since its only about 2 feet tall).

Would that be OK for a small group of thumbs?


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

Woah woah woah. You spent $500 on cork alone? How big is the viv?


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

I too believe that retics would be a good choice. Although they climb they will spend most of their time on the floor. Plus, IMO they are one stunning frog!


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Castis are not actually thumbnails, but are in the Quinq group with quinqs and galacs... the "white egg" group for lack of a better term. All the quinq group frogs are terrestrial but will take advantage of height in a tank.

Most thumbnails live within terrestrial (~1 meters) to semi terrestrial (~ 3m) areas of the ground. Very few are truly arboreal, and even then only certain populations of the species.

Yellow fants are another terrestrial form... but are rather uncommon. They are easier than retics, and their rarity is due to their recent introduction to the hobby rather than how hard they are to care for.

Any of the thumbnails would do fine in the tank you described, its just a matter of some would stay up in the plants more than others. Any of the imitators would do well, and take advantage of the various areas of the tank. The vents and standard fants would appreciate a tank with a bunch of broms and wouldn't adventure to the ground so much.

E. anthonyi would be another fun frog it sounds like to try in that tank... similar in size to thumbnails, great in groups, sounds like you'd got plenty of variety in calling spots, etc.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Its a 75 gal... 48"x18" base... no cork, just malaysian driftwood.


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## maxmlax (Aug 13, 2006)

I dont know, but my imi trio have been in their viv for about a month now, and they have not touched the ground since the day they were plopped in there, they love climbing on the glass and on all the bromeliads...the more bromeliads the better...


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Here is a pic of the tank... not totally finished, but will give and idea to what type of setup I will have. There are 15 pots built into the background for plants! 4 coco huts built in, 5 caves from which mist comes out, 4 mistking nozzles to water, a hidden pipe to provide waterfall and some trickles, and a pond to play in.










What do you think will like it in this 75gal?

Remember broms and other plants are gonna go all over.

Top 3" of tank you can't see due to the hood and light housing.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

maxmlax said:


> I dont know, but my imi trio have been in their viv for about a month now, and they have not touched the ground since the day they were plopped in there, they love climbing on the glass and on all the bromeliads...the more bromeliads the better...


They are "arboreal" in the sense they'll be on vegetation and such, but if given the chance to climb meters up, they'll stay close to the ground floor. Thus, they're terrestrial.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Terrestrial just means they stay within a meter of the ground, not that they stay in the leaf litter. Most thumbnails range from terrestrial to semiterrestrial, and few are actually found in the leaf litter (retics and some forms of fants are exceptions) where most of the thumbs stay in vegetation relatively near the ground, in contrast to the truly arboreal which stay more in the trees well off the ground. We don't see this type of differentiation in our tanks, as our tanks aren't large enough to show this. It would be more obvious in a large greenhouse tho.

In the case of PDFs, terrestrial can be seen in tanks as frogs that never look up (I've never seen my zaparo climb more than 6 in. above the ground), to animals that really don't seem terrestrial as they are rarely in the leaf litter... such as galacs, leucs, and much of the thumbnails, like imitator.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Sounds like it's a better idea to make a nice tall tank so that thumbs could be happy in it. Thanks! I'll just find a nice larger variety for this tank and later on build a nice thumb tank with plenty of climbing space.

Always remember... it's not about the preferences of the owner, but the preferences of the inhabitants that make the best home.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

I just read a little more about dendrobates reticulatus... it says that they dont like to climb that much... would they be an ok choice for this tank?


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

That's a lot of tank for a tiny frog. Unless you got a slew of them, and then there could be territorial problems, you might not see them much.

Another thing to take into account is that if you only got a few, you would still need to feed the tank pretty heavily.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Well I won't mind having to look for them as long as they are happy and healthy!

Wouldn't you want to have a large back yard to run around in?


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I bet 5-10 would be extremely happy in there, and probably reward you with oodles of offspring.


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## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Thats what I thought... it cant hurt to give frogs too much room! :wink: 

My main concern was the tank layout... since reticulatus tend not to climb as much as other thumbs, I think they should be OK.

Will this tank be comfy for a group of retics (hoping to get 2 pairs... maybe three).

P.S. Don't mind how much feeding of tiny springtails or ff's it will be as long as they will like it!


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