# New member, new custom build vivarium.



## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

Hello, I've been lurking the boards from time to time gathering info before I started my project and finally have something to show for it all. It's a 40"x24"x30" plywood tank sealed with epoxy and fiberglass. The interior is expanded foam over top of XPS foam block for the really deep areas, coated in silicone then covered in lava rock. Unfortunately I didnt like the all black look when I was done so I went over it again with more silicone covered in coco coir leaving some exposed areas. I also didn't do the typical sliding glass front, I used glass sliding rail but its once piece I can lift out just as if you were installing the glass and its sealed up on the sides with rubber gasket. As for the rest of the build 

Watering system - I never liked the look of misters so I made a rain fall system using garden soaker hose to simulate it. Because of the amount of water released (it really looks like rain) I have it set to turn on three times a week for only 10 min each time. I may adjust it depending on haw fast everything dry's off (or doesn't) to keep future inhabitants from getting foot rot. There is also a fogger but its not on a timer I just turn it on for 'ohhs and ahhs'. 

Substate - Due to the amount of water and the fact most of it needs to go back into the false bottom I went with 2 inches of Seachem Flourite with a layer of horticultural charcoal then a 1" layer of Fluval Stratum topped off with dried live oak leaf litter. So far the substrate stays moist not soggy and drains really fast. 

Lighting - 45W Full Spectrum LED lighting system by Litever from Amazon 

Air circulation - three fans total, all IP67 rated. One 80mm PC fan pointed towards the center of enclosure for air circulation a second 80mm I created a plenum for to blow air directly over the glass and the third is a 40mm fan mounted in one of the four vents to pull air out of the viv while pulling in fresh from the other three. The two circulation fans are on timers and the glass clearing fan is on a manual switch. 

Plants so far are as follows: 
Frog moss 
Pillow Moss
Fern Moss
Biophytum sp. 'Ecuador'
Peperomia 'Peppermill' 
Monolena sp. 'Red' 
Rainbow Fern 
Neoregelia 'Fireball'
Neoregelia 'mo peppa please'
Neoregelia 'Sheba'
Neoregelia 'Zoe' 
Plumosus Asparagus Fern
Rabbits foot fern
Blue Star Fern - Phlebodium aureum
Lemon Button Fern - Nephrolepis Cordifolia Duffii
Hart's tongue fern - Asplenium Scolopenrium
Echinodorus Bolivianum 
Rotala Roundafolia 'Orange juice' 
Bolbitis heudelotii 
Christmas moss - Vesicularia Montagnei 
Bucephalandra 'Catherinae green'

The last five are probably most familiar with aquarists, I've had the Rotala growing in soil for a while and it has stayed very small 1"-2" and likes to creep along via runners just under the surface. The other four are sitting emersed in one of the shallow tiered pools or in the water flow. 

As for inhabitants I know I want to do a bold species but I haven't decided yet. I also want to let everything settle in for a month or two to let the clean up crew get established before adding anything. 









Bucephalandra 'Catherinae green'








Rotala Roundafolia 'Orange juice'








Monolena sp. 'Red' flowering











Raining! 


http://imgur.com/a/Xn8kHat


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## papaburt4 (Apr 26, 2021)

I’d definitely recommend more frequent misting and for shorter duration. Water evaporates easily when it’s a small amount but not very easily when in a large amount. Once the substrate is soaked it’ll be hard for it to dry out to a normal wetness. Other than that, looks great. Maybe add a few bigger leaf litter leaves to give it a more natural look but I think the frogs are going to love it


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

papaburt4 said:


> I’d definitely recommend more frequent misting and for shorter duration. Water evaporates easily when it’s a small amount but not very easily when in a large amount. Once the substrate is soaked it’ll be hard for it to dry out to a normal wetness. Other than that, looks great. Maybe add a few bigger leaf litter leaves to give it a more natural look but I think the frogs are going to love it


Thanks for the compliments and advice. It's only been planted for a few days now but cant wait to see the growth especially with the fern moss and Christmas moss in the water fall area. I'm still looking for a larger plant for that back corner that will really pop out along with a lot more plants around the rest of the enclosure. I already know I want to add a cryptanthus at some point but there are so many its hard to decide.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Very nice tank. I'll say two things:

It looks like we can see substrate through that leaf litter. That's fine for now, but once you introduce frogs you're going to want a good 2" layer of leaves.

I recommend ditching the waterfall. Every new keeper wants to put one in. Most of us make the mistake of putting one in. It saturates everything and it does nothing for the dart frogs. And because of the wet conditions, it could be detrimental to them. Foot rot is a common ailment with frogs kept in too wet of conditions. In the end, every one of us that has put in a water feature ends up pulling the plug and filling in water areas. It took about a month or so before realized how bad they were for the frogs. I'd highly recommend learning from everyone's experience here when it comes to waterfalls.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Chbgator said:


> Due to the amount of water and the fact most of it needs to go back into the false bottom


Not sure how to read this. If you're recirculating waste water back into the viv, I'd recommend against that. Also, I'd recommend against using a fogger at all; there was a recent report of frogs being distressed concurrent with fogger use.


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

JasonE said:


> Very nice tank. I'll say two things:
> 
> It looks like we can see substrate through that leaf litter. That's fine for now, but once you introduce frogs you're going to want a good 2" layer of leaves.
> 
> I recommend ditching the waterfall. Every new keeper wants to put one in. Most of us make the mistake of putting one in. It saturates everything and it does nothing for the dart frogs. And because of the wet conditions, it could be detrimental to them. Foot rot is a common ailment with frogs kept in too wet of conditions. In the end, every one of us that has put in a water feature ends up pulling the plug and filling in water areas. It took about a month or so before realized how bad they were for the frogs. I'd highly recommend learning from everyone's experience here when it comes to waterfalls.


The waterfall area is more of a drip wall and I placed the stones at the bottom so it doesn't splash around and soak the surroundings, once the Christmas fills in more you wont even really see the water. I've read the comments concerning foot rot and have taken it into consideration. The frogs will have plenty of 'dry' area unless they want to get wet.


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Not sure how to read this. If you're recirculating waste water back into the viv, I'd recommend against that. Also, I'd recommend against using a fogger at all; there was a recent report of frogs being distressed concurrent with fogger use.


I plan on weekly water changes with the planted tanks I currently have but but just out of curiosity, what's the harm of recycling water? As far as the fogger goes it would be lcuky to be turned on once a week just for show.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Chbgator said:


> I plan on weekly water changes with the planted tanks I currently have but but just out of curiosity, what's the harm of recycling water? As far as the fogger goes it would be lcuky to be turned on once a week just for show.


Since you have no filter, you will basically be spreading waste water all over your tank.


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

Chris S said:


> Since you have no filter, you will basically be spreading waste water all over your tank.


The enclosure top to bottom is a filter. There is filter media in the false bottom along with the 3 inches of substrate the water passes through before getting to the false bottom.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Chbgator said:


> The enclosure top to bottom is a filter. There is filter media in the false bottom along with the 3 inches of substrate the water passes through before getting to the false bottom.


I've seen what comes out of my frog tanks through the substrate and then out my drain holes... I wouldn't reuse the drained water from my tanks for anything other than potentially watering my houseplants.

Edit: what are you planning to reuse the water for? If you plan to reuse it to go through your rain bar then it's going to plug up your rain bar.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Chbgator said:


> The enclosure top to bottom is a filter. There is filter media in the false bottom along with the 3 inches of substrate the water passes through before getting to the false bottom.


The problem is, there is nothing forcing the water to go through any of these things - it takes the path of least resistance. In a proper filter, water is forced to go through filter media, which ensures things like ammonia and nitrite are given the opportunity to be nitrified by beneficial bacteria.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Chbgator said:


> I plan on weekly water changes with the planted tanks I currently have but but just out of curiosity, what's the harm of recycling water? As far as the fogger goes it would be lcuky to be turned on once a week just for show.


I think a better question might be 'what's the harm of using fresh RO water for moisture additions in a way that's proven to be simple, safe and effective?' This is a bit of a big-picture tangent here, but in considering my own husbandry practices, I tend to assume that the burden of proof is on me to justify changes to established effective care protocols, and those justifications have to be couched in terms of benefits to the captive animal. That is, I follow the recipe unless I identify some benefit I can provide to the frog through making some alteration to the recipe.

Back to the case at hand. The risks I can think of off the top of my head are pathogen buildup (infection by ubiquitous opportunistic pathogens can be caused by simple pathogen density), and buildup/spikes of nitrogenous waste (which frogs are more sensitive to than fish, and for frogs there aren't any guidelines as to maximum safe concentrations that I've seen). Possibly these issues could be minimized by complicated filtration and testing, but designing in problems so that they can be then minimized doesn't seem to have any apparent benefit to the frogs, nor for the keeper, really.

The same considerations hold for a fogger, as far as I can tell.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Chbgator said:


> As far as the fogger goes it would be lcuky to be turned on once a week just for show.


This isn't right my friend. Doing something for "show" that has been shown to have detrimental effects on the frogs is wrong. We set up these tanks for the frogs, not ourselves. You can make creative choices as long as you provide the frogs what they need. It's our job to do what we can to make sure these guys get the long and healthy lives they deserve. Willingly stressing out an animal that is known to die from stress for show is unacceptable.


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

JasonE said:


> This isn't right my friend. Doing something for "show" that has been shown to have detrimental effects on the frogs is wrong. We set up these tanks for the frogs, not ourselves. You can make creative choices as long as you provide the frogs what they need. It's our job to do what we can to make sure these guys get the long and healthy lives they deserve. Willingly stressing out an animal that is known to die from stress for show is unacceptable.


The enclosure doesn't fill up with fog, it dissipates relatively fast before it gets to the bottom so it wouldn't stress the frogs by making them breath it in which is why they try to climb out of other peoples enclosures who have tried it and completely flooded the environment which would make any air breathing animal stressed. 



Chris S said:


> The problem is, there is nothing forcing the water to go through any of these things - it takes the path of least resistance. In a proper filter, water is forced to go through filter media, which ensures things like ammonia and nitrite are given the opportunity to be nitrified by beneficial bacteria.


Completely false in your assumption that beneficial bacteria only reside in areas where water is forced through a media. When it "rains" in the enclosure water has no choice but to pass through the substrate and through the filter sponge located on the outside of the column where the pumps are hidden away. 



fishingguy12345 said:


> I've seen what comes out of my frog tanks through the substrate and then out my drain holes... I wouldn't reuse the drained water from my tanks for anything other than potentially watering my houseplants.
> 
> Edit: what are you planning to reuse the water for? If you plan to reuse it to go through your rain bar then it's going to plug up your rain bar.



Not sure what to tell you if you have a barrier that allows your substrate and whatever gets into the substrate from the top also through the leaf litter except maybe get a better material that doesn't allow that. 
The rain bar is actually garden soaker hose and its completely replaceable. I knew it would eventually clog over time so I made sure that part would be easy to do.




Socratic Monologue said:


> I think a better question might be 'what's the harm of using fresh RO water for moisture additions in a way that's proven to be simple, safe and effective?' This is a bit of a big-picture tangent here, but in considering my own husbandry practices, I tend to assume that the burden of proof is on me to justify changes to established effective care protocols, and those justifications have to be couched in terms of benefits to the captive animal. That is, I follow the recipe unless I identify some benefit I can provide to the frog through making some alteration to the recipe.
> 
> Back to the case at hand. The risks I can think of off the top of my head are pathogen buildup (infection by ubiquitous opportunistic pathogens can be caused by simple pathogen density), and buildup/spikes of nitrogenous waste (which frogs are more sensitive to than fish, and for frogs there aren't any guidelines as to maximum safe concentrations that I've seen). Possibly these issues could be minimized by complicated filtration and testing, but designing in problems so that they can be then minimized doesn't seem to have any apparent benefit to the frogs, nor for the keeper, really.
> 
> The same considerations hold for a fogger, as far as I can tell.


I don't have an issue with using RO water and it would actually be relatively easy to plumb something in along with an overflow so the water never reaches the substrate. But as I mentioned I would be replacing water in the tank on a regular basis to avoid the build up. As far as the pathogen build up goes unless you forcibly wash the substrate and everything in your enclosure simply adding RO water and draining out the old really isn't going to stop them from building up. 


I appreciate all the comments and suggestions and I can and will take and use the constructive criticism I've gotten but please anyone reading this, know what your talking about before you try to add your two cents just for the sake of sounding off. Some of the questions really make me wonder if the initial post was even read or its just taking one comment other have posted and 'piling on' . Its a shame too because its those type of bad habits that keep people away from forums like this to learn and eventually contribute to the community.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Chbgator said:


> Completely false in your assumption that beneficial bacteria only reside in areas where water is forced through a media. When it "rains" in the enclosure water has no choice but to pass through the substrate and through the filter sponge located on the outside of the column where the pumps are hidden away.


That is absolutely not what I said. I said a proper filter will force water to pass through an area that is full of nitrifying bacteria. When it "rains", it takes the path of least resistance and so it is not all equally exposed.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Chbgator said:


> Not sure what to tell you if you have a barrier that allows your substrate and whatever gets into the substrate from the top also through the leaf litter except maybe get a better material that doesn't allow that.
> The rain bar is actually garden soaker hose and its completely replaceable. I knew it would eventually clog over time so I made sure that part would be easy to do.


You have obviously never drained waste water out of a vivarium before. Anything that can dissolve into water, or anything smaller than the substrate barrier holes will end up in there. It isn't nice looking water. I use it for watering my plants.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Chbgator said:


> Not sure what to tell you if you have a barrier that allows your substrate and whatever gets into the substrate from the top also through the leaf litter except maybe get a better material that doesn't allow that.


This is the drain line from a tank with no soil in it whatsoever. The build is filter foam, pea gravel, leaf litter. Still isn't water I'd ever reuse in a tank.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Ok, folks, I think we have probably reached the point where further contention on these subjects is not very helpful. I think that some good advice has been given and we can move on from here. There are risks associated with a closed system of recirculating water in a dart frog tank and these concerns have been raised. Dedication to water changes will mitigate this potential issue (more dedication than I have, but maybe not true of the OP). As we have learned in various other threads on this board, fog might not be ideal for dart frog tanks especially if used too often or instead of misting. Regardless of the above, the goal is not to beat people up over adopting unorthodox approaches. I hope that anyone reading this thread in the future is able to sort out the important parts of the discussion and it should be obvious by how a number of experienced folks have weighed in what the default husbandry practices are. If not, you can always feel free to hit anybody with a private message to clarify. 

So, @Chbgator , thanks for sharing your tank with us. Though you have made some novel/non-canon decisions in how to approach this tank, I hope that you learn a ton and come back and let us know what works and, more importantly, what doesn't work. That is the only way that the hobby can move forward. I also hope that you have enough experience to recognize when any novel technique is not beneficial to the inhabitants and can make the necessary corrections. 

Mark


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

Encyclia said:


> Ok, folks, I think we have probably reached the point where further contention on these subjects is not very helpful. I think that some good advice has been given and we can move on from here. There are risks associated with a closed system of recirculating water in a dart frog tank and these concerns have been raised. Dedication to water changes will mitigate this potential issue (more dedication than I have, but maybe not true of the OP). As we have learned in various other threads on this board, fog might not be ideal for dart frog tanks especially if used too often or instead of misting. Regardless of the above, the goal is not to beat people up over adopting unorthodox approaches. I hope that anyone reading this thread in the future is able to sort out the important parts of the discussion and it should be obvious by how a number of experienced folks have weighed in what the default husbandry practices are. If not, you can always feel free to hit anybody with a private message to clarify.
> 
> So, @Chbgator , thanks for sharing your tank with us. Though you have made some novel/non-canon decisions in how to approach this tank, I hope that you learn a ton and come back and let us know what works and, more importantly, what doesn't work. That is the only way that the hobby can move forward. I also hope that you have enough experience to recognize when any novel technique is not beneficial to the inhabitants and can make the necessary corrections.
> 
> Mark


Thanks Mark, 

I knew coming into this I would be making changes as I went along before any frogs were placed in the enclosure. Dart frogs are something I've wanted to keep as far back as when the only 'correct' way to build the habitat was to use clay in the enclosure for the calcium. The community grew from there but it doesn't mean it has to stop now. I would never want to intentionally do something to harm any animal I keep but there is no reason as beautiful as most enclosures are already that there aren't new ways to make other aesthetic changes for us, that are also beneficial or have an negligible impact on the animals. 

Anyways with all that said I've already reduced the size of the water feature and plan on getting a smaller pump to reduce the flow to a trickle at best, but just to be clear the water feature never had a splash area that soaked the enclosure to begin with, rocks were placed so the water dripping did so behind them not over them to eliminate the splash. I never had, nor intended Niagara Falls, besides as the Christmas moss fills in that trickle won't even be noticeable. I also have more dried leaves on the way for a deeper substrate cover and a lot more plants which should be here tomorrow. 

Thanks

Edit: Oh, and please don't forget to come back and tell us what worked and didn't work during the experimentation phase! Nothing would make me happier than hearing that that all of us were wrong about some aspect of how you are planning to do things. I see no downside to tinkering with things while no critters are in the tank, but it only helps the hobby if you come back and let us know how things are progressing!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sounds like you have the right attitude. I like that you plan to do the experimentation before animals are at stake. Most folks, I think, would not have this level of discipline.

My experience with water in tanks is that it goes wherever it wants, regardless of where I try to channel it. I (grudgingly) have a moving water stream in one (and only one) of my tanks, and it pretty much does what it wants in spite of a ton of experimentation before I settled on the current design. It does add considerable moisture to the substrate, too. Just keep an eye out to make sure that the your substrate is not saturated from wicking (which works horizontally as well as vertically).

As for the discussion on nitrification, remember that the end product, nitrate, is still toxic in large enough concentrations (takes a lot more of it to be toxic to most organisms than nitrite and ammonia). So, even if you have a perfect biological filtration system set up, you will still need to pay attention to the build-up of nitrate. Plants can mop up some, but I would plan on a rigorous water change schedule (which it sounded like you were not averse to).

Along similar lines, you said you weren't opposed to RO, and I really recommend using it exclusively. The rainfall setup is likely going to splash quite a bit and you will end up with a lot of hard water deposits on your glass with even the softest tap water. If I was doing something like you are doing, I would start with RO and put a bulkhead into the bottom or side of the tank and just let the drainage layer overflow passively all the time. This would take care of the nitrate issue, and would avoid clogging of your soaker hose, as well. 

Another factor to pay attention to is that mosses of most, if not all, flavors will prefer more humid conditions than the frogs will. Frogs like 60 to 80% and mosses, especially while they establish seem to like it as moist as possible. It's tempting to assume that bright green, showy moss = good conditions for frogs, but most of us that have been doing dart frogs for a while have learned to assume the opposite. Delicate balancing of ventilation vs. rain/mist might be able to achieve a balance, but I am just not sure. Fog is too ephemeral to play any role in the overall humidity of the tank and contributes to problems with frogs respiring and transpiring via their skins.

Anyway, I think that you have your hands full with this tank but there is a lot of potential to it. I wish you well.

Mark


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

Thanks again, 

In the back corner where the pumps are is a tower with mesh at the bottom where water is drawn through is surrounded by sponge filter media. Then at the top where the water exits it does so into a box with more filter media which then flows out to the enclosure.









This is a view from the back which is now sealed up against the back of the enclosure but accessible from the top. The red rectangle is covered by the same sponge filter media to let water out and keep animals from entering.










In the above picture you can see the mesh screen (bottom left) at the base of the tower which is now covered in coarse sponge filter media.

As for the soaker hose I know it will eventually get clogged but I made it easy to replace. Here is a picture of the lid with the fans, lighting and soaker tubing.










I also understand what you're saying about the moss but the aptly named frog moss remains dry on top. It's dense on the bottom but fluffy and airy on top and even after 'raining' it quickly runs off. The fern moss is on vertical surfaces and I don't anticipate the frogs which I'm currently leaning towards Dendrobates lucamelas are keen to hanging out on vertical surfaces. 

As far as humidity goes there doesn't seem to be any issue without misting as during the day it fogs up relatively quick with the temp around 73F daytime after the lights brighten to 100% and about 68F at night when they go out. The lights are also on a dimmer timer to simulate sunrise and sunset rather than just switching on at 100%. 

As far as the fogger goes, I've yet to even turn it on since it's not a priority or even something I've thought about until it gets brought up. I also added the new plants today Rubella Makoyana, begonia elaeagnifolia, philodendron wend imbe, Ludisia discolor and Dwarf Calathea. 


Thanks


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

fishingguy12345 said:


> This is the drain line from a tank with no soil in it whatsoever. The build is filter foam, pea gravel, leaf litter. Still isn't water I'd ever reuse in a tank.
> 
> View attachment 302926
> View attachment 302927


Three weeks and the water is still clear. Not having the typical substrate mix with peat in it probably has a lot to do with no tannins leaching out to discolor the water.


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

I'd say its growing in nicely so far. A few more plants and wood added and I'll be processing some nice new oak leaves the neighbors tree just dropped for more leaf litter. 








I haven't noticed any plants going through an acclimation period at least not that I'm used to coming from planted tanks to terrariums. My temps were also getting real low at night sub 60F so I added a PTC constant temp heater onto a thermostat that has day/night dual temp settings with night night set to 65F and day low to 75F. Its currently on a 48W power supply that pushes 90-93FF output max at the heater itself so I'll keep playing with that to match up a power supply that maxes out at a lower temp. That said though it needs to run almost continuously to keep the enclosure at 75 with the lights on as it is. One benefit I did notice was with the heater it simulates natural humidity levels by dropping humidity down to near 80% in the day and then at night at the cooler temp of 65F the humidity raises to 90%+ 

For those of you who aren't familiar with a PTC heater the heat produced matches the power put into it. The ceramic heat element as it warms increases its electrical resistance which is why its called a constant temp heater. The 48W power supply I have can only push the temp I listed, it can't go higher. A lower wattage and voltage power supply will heat it less and of course a higher rated PSU will push higher temps but all still controlled by the nature of the heating element itself without a thermostat to control the amount of heat produced. My next test though will be to plug it in without a thermostat to run continuously for 24hrs just in case the thermostat fails to see what it does to the temps.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Could you use a Variable Voltage Power Supply? I have some stuff around the house that is powered by this type of unit, although mine are much simpler and cheaper. Sounds like a similar concept though, I just set the voltage and theres a heater element that maintains temp based on resistance or whatever. I plug it in say at 11.8v and over an hour or so while it warms and resistance increases, the reading drops. 

I'm pretty much illiterate when it comes to electrical stuff so I'll just link these here 









Kungber DC Power Supply Variable with Memory, 30V 5A Adjustable Switching Regulated DC Bench Linear Power Supply with Memory Recall and Output Disable Button 4 Digits Display and Alligator Leads: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Kungber DC Power Supply Variable with Memory, 30V 5A Adjustable Switching Regulated DC Bench Linear Power Supply with Memory Recall and Output Disable Button 4 Digits Display and Alligator Leads: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com







Amazon.com



This is basically identical to the ones I use. Doesn't tell you anything other than voltage, but sounds like you might want the additional readouts. 



Amazon.com


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

BrianTL said:


> Could you use a Variable Voltage Power Supply? I have some stuff around the house that is powered by this type of unit, although mine are much simpler and cheaper. Sounds like a similar concept though, I just set the voltage and theres a heater element that maintains temp based on resistance or whatever. I plug it in say at 11.8v and over an hour or so while it warms and resistance increases, the reading drops.
> 
> I'm pretty much illiterate when it comes to electrical stuff so I'll just link these here
> 
> ...


I used a small laptop power supply and just put a female plug on the wires. Search Amazon for PTC heaters they sell them with the fans already attached for about $20-$25 and a small PSU like I have is prob under $10.

Heater - You'll see tons of them under different names and wattage/voltage combos for input but they are all exactly the same product probably from the same Chinese manufacturer which they probably bought for $10 USD and sell them for $25 USD with some crazy people selling them for $50 and up. 
Power supply - this one even comes with the female plug to connect the wires to. If you dont see the wattage just multiply the volts and amps to get wattage. 

Connect both fan and heater wires to the female plug terminal. I use the middle wire from the heater as the ground and the two outside for the positive. you may want to test the heat output though for your enclosure as a much smaller enclosure will heat up much faster. Ideally if you have the right combo the temperature output would hit your target temp and you'd never have to worry about over heating the enclosure. Mine is 40"x24"x36" or 21 Sq feet so my heater works for the size I have but would cook anything inside a small enclosure like an Exo Terra 18x18x24.


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## Chbgator (Nov 21, 2020)

Quick update, more plants, more leaf litter and I added a misting system and a pump with a float switch to empty the excess water. I also had to pull the rain drip system, I liked the look of it but since the water coverage wasn't hitting all the plants and there wasn't enough room in the pump well for it and the drain pump. Still no frogs since I'm not 100% satisfied with it.


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