# Favorite ready to use substrate?



## rosicakes (Oct 28, 2017)

What is your favorite bagged and ready to use substrate? I’m working on my second viv and was planning on using some Josh’s frogs abg mix I have but was reading old threads that it’s not a good choice because it doesn’t contain tree fern? I might be remembering wrong. I would order from NEHERP which is what I used in my other viv but I don’t remember shipping being so much. I need to buy a few other things from there (lights and a branch) and shipping comes out to over $30. Should I just get over it and order anyway? Is there something better out there? Does vivarium size matter or make a difference when choosing substrate? Thanks!


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## xbrennan (Mar 25, 2018)

I would go with glassboxtropicals, I just received 5 bags of ABG from them and all are true to the original recipe, tree fern and all. They also have a good selection of wood, accents, plants, and I believe lighting as well. Shipping was about $22 if I remember correctly, but it may have been slightly more. You are correct that josh's frogs, they do not use tree fern, I believe they substitute coco fiber, which many have said lacks adequate drainage. I have used both mixes and enjoy both products.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Kinda funny that Josh's Frogs call their mix "ABG", when they deviate from the actual recipe.


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## artgecko (Dec 6, 2016)

I've had good luck with the substrate mixes from NEHERP. I've used their ABG, their NEHERP and NEHERP V2 mixes. I mostly use the V2 because I keep some species that don't need consistent high humidity (rhacs).


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

xbrennan said:


> You are correct that josh's frogs, they do not use tree fern, I believe they substitute coco fiber, which many have said lacks adequate drainage.


No, there is no coco fiber in their mix. They use that 'growstone' lightweight drainage material in place of tree fern.


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## xbrennan (Mar 25, 2018)

JPP said:


> No, there is no coco fiber in their mix. They use that 'growstone' lightweight drainage material in place of tree fern.


Thanks for the correction, I just assumed it was coco fiber from its appearance. Thats good to know.


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## ldaniell (Apr 18, 2018)

According to NEHERP, their V2 substrate is also good in dart frog vivaria, which is what I'm using. They just haven't updated that on their website yet.


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## rosicakes (Oct 28, 2017)

I have NEHERP’s v2 substrate in my bicolors viv. It’s the only one I have so can’t compare. Is abg better? It will be for thumbnails. Imitators or southern variabilis, haven’t decided yet.


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## Amagaeru (May 6, 2015)

I have both Neherp's V2 and a true ABG.
Honestly I haven't noticed any different growth. Both do great. I don't really see what the special hype is over only using true ABG. 

Leaf litter and plant growth will cover it anyways- soil shouldn't be on your darts. 

Neherp is out of ABG at the moment. I just placed an order this week - they are substituting V2, or can wait about two weeks until more tree fern comes in.


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## Amagaeru (May 6, 2015)

Heck, some folks only use straight turface as a growing media. Leaf litter breaks down and gets all in it too- faster if you grind up some leaves as the first layer.


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## dmb5245 (Feb 7, 2014)

rosicakes said:


> I have NEHERP’s v2 substrate in my bicolors viv. It’s the only one I have so can’t compare. Is abg better? It will be for thumbnails. Imitators or southern variabilis, haven’t decided yet.


NEHERP is nice enough to list their ingredients for their substrates. V2 lacks the tree fern and replaces it with cypress mulch. So V2 is less suitable for drainage, but is better for burrowing. That's not the trade-off you want for darts, but we're probably splitting hairs here. As others mention, leaf litter is king.

All things being equal, I'd go for NEHERP's V1 or Glassbox Tropicals ABG. Josh's ABG is completely fine too (I have a bag of it next to me as I type).

Dave


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## alsofaac (Aug 21, 2013)

I mix my own: mainly garden soil (no perlite or vermiculite), compost, and sphagnum, plus added dried live oak leaves, well composted leaves, aquarium charcoal, sand, tree fern fiber - mixed well, and water added until moist throughout. Seems to work well.


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## harrisbt (Feb 19, 2013)

I have a few for various different uses...

Vivs -- turface (with thick leaf litter on top)
temperate spring cultures - turface
tropical springtail cultures -- NEHERP V2 (with leaf litter on top)
big isopod species -- NEHERP V2 (though I suppose I'm deviated from the original question, because I also add palm bark and crushed oak leaves)

Call me crazy, but I don't do any mite prevention. Never had crashes with any of my cultures on these substrates. Charcoal though? Constant population booms and busts. Never again.


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

This is an easy one....turface mvp baby. Unless I need a hm clay for a certain species.

4 vivs under 55g and counting on one $20 bag.

Using an eggcrate false bottom I can do the bottom layers of 3 vivs for under what it would cost to use abg in one


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Tree fern fiber became scarce and expensive for a while so most places decided to try and replace it with something else. I am very sure the larger vendors like Joshs and NE herp probably couldn't even buy enough to supply everyone at that time 

The tree fern fiber is there to create structure and drainage spaces in the media. So people just basically use any hard small material to replace it, perlite, growstone, etc. Now honestly tree fern is probably a great product but you don't need it, it is a woody product that provides some very slow decay nutrients.

I like my mix to be diverse so there is a wide range of nutrients, surfaces and spaces in it. I use typically use an ABG mix similar to glass box tropicals and also throw in some coco chunks.


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## AncientSmariner (May 14, 2018)

Interesting thread. My newbie conclusion is any of the commercially available substrates are adequate to their purpose.


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