# Small Moth Id?



## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Looking for an Id on these little moths(?) and any effective eradication methods. 
They are ~1/4" across and have a dark, elongate, aquatic, larval stage. 
They are cute, but they are beginning to move from viv to viv as they fly around each time I open a tank. I don't think that they bother frogs or eggs, but they need to go.
Thanks.


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## Jermander (Mar 12, 2014)

Its not a moth. It is actually a fly (Clogmia sp) related to midges aka bloodworms. Thankfully it doesn't bite. As far as getting rid of them...that's tricky. You can try removing the larvae with a pipette, let their pool dry up or attempt to take away their nutrients.

Just curious, are the frogs showing interest in them? I have contemplated using them as feeders/ cleanup crews but haven't for the same issues you are experiencing.


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

I have not seen the frogs attracted to them, but I would not be surprised if they did eat them from time to time. 
I find that they use the same pools of water as tadpoles in obligate tanks to breed, so film canisters, bromiliads, etc. are perfect for them. Finding all of the larvae will be practically impossible.
I would not recommend intentionally adding these!


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## Jermander (Mar 12, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, but glad you posted this. In all my contemplations about adding them to a viv, I never thought about them invading the bromeliads. 

As far as how to deal with them, the bromeliads makes things more difficult. You can try letting any standing water dry out. As far as I know Clogmia eggs can't survive desiccation. The adults should also be attracted to UV so maybe a UV trap + time might work. Hope one of those helps.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

These guys are a pest and can do damage to frogs and tads in no time as well as eggs, the larvae are like no other, they eat anything made of flesh it seems, so if u have them in a tank best to move the frogs out and let the viv dry up a bit and that is the best way to get rid of them.


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

It's a moth fly, Diptera:Nematocerasychodidae. I don't actually work with any of these guys as they aren't pests of economic importance, but they are pretty benign. About 16-19 days as vermiform larvae in the water eating sludge and detritus, another 19-38 hours as a free moving pupa before emerging as an adult. They'll mate almost immediately after emerging, but live on for about a month. Females will lay approximately 100-140 eggs that hatch in three days. Note that warmer temperatures will hasten development. If they bother you enough, the only thing I can suggest is a UV trap as they are highly attractive to bright lights and especially UV wavelengths.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

Julio said:


> These guys are a pest and can do damage to frogs and tads in no time as well as eggs, the larvae are like no other, they eat anything made of flesh it seems, so if u have them in a tank best to move the frogs out and let the viv dry up a bit and that is the best way to get rid of them.





Entomologist210 said:


> It's a moth fly, Diptera:Nematocerasychodidae. I don't actually work with any of these guys as they aren't pests of economic importance, but they are pretty benign. About 16-19 days as vermiform larvae in the water eating sludge and detritus, another 19-38 hours as a free moving pupa before emerging as an adult. They'll mate almost immediately after emerging, but live on for about a month. Females will lay approximately 100-140 eggs that hatch in three days. Note that warmer temperatures will hasten development. If they bother you enough, the only thing I can suggest is a UV trap as they are highly attractive to bright lights and especially UV wavelengths.


I've seen their larvae in tad cups (with tads), and never had a predation issue.

Maybe Julio had a different bug?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've seen them visually eating viable eggs. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

The larvae are detritivores, so while they might go after a dead egg I'd be skeptical about them attacking something live. "The semiaquatic water-film microhabitat and microbe-grazing habits of Clogmia spp. and Psychoda spp. larvae are typical for the family" (Marshal, 2012).

Marshall, S. A. (2012). Flies: the natural history & diversity of Diptera. Richmond Hill, Ont.: Firefly Books.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Entomologist210 said:


> The larvae are detritivores, so while they might go after a dead egg I'd be skeptical about them attacking something live. "The semiaquatic water-film microhabitat and microbe-grazing habits of Clogmia spp. and Psychoda spp. larvae are typical for the family" (Marshal, 2012).
> 
> Marshall, S. A. (2012). Flies: the natural history & diversity of Diptera. Richmond Hill, Ont.: Firefly Books.


I was pretty surprised by them going after viable eggs as prior to that time I was only aware of them a biofilm grazers but it wasn't just one clutch or one time... There were some issues with these insects developing in huge numbers in some turtle enclosures inside a building and then spreading to other areas. We weren't finding just one or two larvae attacking the eggs but 20-50 at a time. 

As confirmation the adults and larvae were sent out for confirmational identification and were confirmed as Psychodidae .. 

some comments 

Ed


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