# Office Viv - Updated 7/14/06



## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Well, this isn't much of a journal since I didn't take any pictures as I went... but I'm not done yet either, so I hope to have updates in the future and thus qualify this thread as a journal. This is my second attempt to creat a viv, and I added a few complexities to my design. This sits on my desk in my office and I wanted to have some "wow" factor for my visitors. The tank itself is nearly done. I have another half-dozen or so small broms on order that need to be planted, and things need to grow in before I would call it complete. The next phase of this project will be to build a small cabinet of sorts that will include a short base for the tank to sit on, a cover for the back of the tank to conceal all the cords and the pump/filter system, and a hinged hood that will house my CF light kit. I really want it to look very neat and tidy when I'm done, not an electrocution/fire hazard.

Anyway, here's what's done so far:









You can see I used an FCA front. Very nice. I've also added a small fan to the vent which is wired to an adjustable power supply. I run it at 7 volts instead of 12 and it give me nice quiet circulation. It's also connected to a timer to run for an hour in the morning to clear the bulk of the glass, and then only 10 minutes every couple hours the rest of the day to keep things clear. Total cost ~ $12. Actually, make that $14 because I did spring for stainless steel screws and nuts to mount with.

I really wanted to have an interesting water fall type feature, and I also wanted some type of filtration. I bought one of the Zoo-med 501 turtle filters and it fits the bill perfectly.










Running at full capacity the flow was much stronger than I liked, so I created the engineering debacle you see. I took "defaced's" bypass system and used it very successfully for my project. Thank you defaced! I fear you'll be up nights tossing and turning at the sight of my monstrosity of elbows, Ts, and 3/8" tubing. I apologize, but it's the best I could do with my limited resources. It's a mess, but it gives me complete control of the flow and works perfectly. The pump is actually very good too. Essentially silent when all the air bubbles are drawn out of it.

You'll notice that the waterflow comes in about 2/3 of the way above the floor. My intent was to create a series of pools visible from OUTSIDE the tank (essentially using the glass as one "river bank"). The final pool was intended to terminate into a piece of driftwood the water could flow down into the pond. Water flows from the pond back under the egg-crate false bottom and back into the pump intake for another run down the river.

Here are some shots of the raging trickle:










Here is another that give some perspective on the waterfall from the first pool to the second. Both have gravel lined bottoms.










Here is a shot looking at the stream/waterfall from the front:










And here is a shot of my "drip log" feeding back into the pond. You can see the moss loves the moisture and my little fireball hybrid is sending out roots after only a week!










Here is a shot of my jewel orchid. It doesn't seem too much the worse for wear yet and seems to be holding up better than I anticipated. Just the word orchid in the name makes my black thumb twitch in fear...










And finally, here is a shot of my Vr. Racinae in the cork bark planter I siliconed to the opposite side of the tank. It seems to be enjoying the close proximity to the light source as well. I've had trouble keeping these dry enough in the past, but the planter allows me a little more control with watering and seems to be working well.










Phase II of this project will test my wood working skills. I look forward to the challenge... Hopefully updates to follow soon!


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

Dude thats an awsome looking tank, i love it. Just wish my office would let me have one. Ohhh wait i dont work in an office 8)


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Nice lookin' viv you got there sir!


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Is that a 10g tank?!? If so - you've got more action going in there then many 30 gallon tanks I've seen!

What are you planning on keeping in it?

s


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2006)

Very nice! Great ideas on the water fall and mini pools. What frogs will be lucky enough to live in there?


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Looking really good, i can't believe how much you stuffed into that little tank! I know what you mean about setting up that bypass valve. I have twice the area and still had a hard time fitting it it in, good job. What are those white and grey devices in the lines? Some kind of check valve?

I just discovered that Zoo Med filter the other day at Petsmart. I may switch to one of those if my Pentair proves to be too much for my 18. So were you able to find that trim i told you about? I'm looking forward to seeing how your cabinet comes out. Great job so far, keep us updated.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks for the compliments guys!

Yeah, that is a 10 gallon. I think the pictures make it look "fuller" than it really is. I easily have room for 4 or 5 more small broms.

This will be at least the temporary housing for a trio of Red Amazonicus. 

The "devices" on the pump intake and output lines are actually "drip-less" quick disconnects. They were pretty pricey, but since I'm at the office I needed to be able to disconnect the pump and take it to a sink for routine cleaning etc. This way, I just pop the button on each coupling and I don't spill a drop. I'm a chronic "over-engineering" abuser...

Just FYI - I've seen those Zoo-Med filters priced anywhere from $20-$60. My local Petsmart was not one of the more competitive retailers... I found mine on-line cheap enough to justify the shipping cost.

RGB - I haven't had the time to look for the trim yet... I may get stuck assembling invitations or debating the merits of each microsoft font over the coming weeks so this might take some time! I'll keep you posted with any updates.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2006)

That's a great viv! Those little ponds really helped me in my design. Originally I wasn't planning on a water feature, but since I have limited space & $, I figured I'd make my tank look as good as possible. I was going to do a small pond raised up on a terrace and then have it trickle down a log but I wasn't sure how to do it. Your pictures helped me visualize it so now I may do something similar. Thanks for the inspiration! 

P.S.~ Does your fan blow in, or out?


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## Viv (Mar 5, 2006)

ya.. you inspired me to have little planted pools going throughout my waterfall..but mine will look really diff from yours....(if it comes out like i plan) .... the viv. looks AWESOME!!!!!


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks guys.

Ross, the fan blows in very gently, you can hardly feel it with your hand. I wanted to circulate the warm air inside the viv and not just suck it out. I think the plants benefit from a little air movement as well.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

JL-Exotics said:


> The "devices" on the pump intake and output lines are actually "drip-less" quick disconnects. They were pretty pricey, but since I'm at the office I needed to be able to disconnect the pump and take it to a sink for routine cleaning etc. This way, I just pop the button on each coupling and I don't spill a drop. I'm a chronic "over-engineering" abuser...
> 
> Just FYI - I've seen those Zoo-Med filters priced anywhere from $20-$60. My local Petsmart was not one of the more competitive retailers... I found mine on-line cheap enough to justify the shipping cost.
> 
> RGB - I haven't had the time to look for the trim yet... I may get stuck assembling invitations or debating the merits of each microsoft font over the coming weeks so this might take some time! I'll keep you posted with any updates.


 It 's probably a bad idea to tell your fiancee that your viv is more important than what font you use on your invitations, just be patient and you'll make it through these trying times!

Let me know if you see that filter for less than $30. I found it at Petsmart for $50 and a few places online for as low as $38, but with shipping it ended up at almost $50 anyway.

So where did you find those disconnects? I too am an chronic over-engineeringaholic. We should have meetings or something.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2006)

How did you built the tiers in the waterfall. Is it just me or does it look like there's a sterilite container in there?


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## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

Thanks for sharing your pics, looks great and you helped my brainstorming idea on how to change my water feature in my leucs tank. Rather than a small drip wall I'm going to do a retaining pond with over flow into the other pond. The filter in my opinion is over kill, I've been running a water feature in one of my tanks for 2+yrs with no filter. I just siphon off excess water collected from misting. 
Good luck.
Mike


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Looks like I'm a little behind with my questions...



> Let me know if you see that filter for less than $30. I found it at Petsmart for $50 and a few places online for as low as $38, but with shipping it ended up at almost $50 anyway.


I believe I got mine at http://www.reptilesupply.com. I see they have them on sale right now for $28.99. I think they were $26 when I got mine... I bought a few things when I ordered and I recall the shipping being less than $10 for everything.



> So where did you find those disconnects? I too am an chronic over-engineeringaholic. We should have meetings or something.


I picked up the disconnects at McMaster-Carr. I saw them when I was ordering some fine ss mesh. They were really $$ though... I suspect there are less expensive versions out there if you did a little hunting. They do work very well though, and I'm glad I have them. It will save a lot of wear and tear on the bulkheads and fittings.




> How did you built the tiers in the waterfall. Is it just me or does it look like there's a sterilite container in there?


Good question! No, there is not sterilite container in there... but you're kinda close. I actually bough some acrylic and took a stab at fabbing my own waterfall "skeleton". Acrylic is not that easy to work with... I cut a piece to the size I wanted and used a heat gun to bend it to the shape I wanted. 

FYI - If the acrylic is hot enough to melt.... it's hot enough to melt fingers too. Wow! Gotta have quick hands for that kind of work! Cotton or leather gloves might have been a good choice in hindsight too... I just bent a piece in this general shape:

_ /
|


Once I had the shape I wanted I cut it in half so that I could have one "pool" higher than the other. I cut another piece of acrylic to make a divider between the two pools. This is the section the water flows over to reach the second pool. I siliconed the acrylic pieces into place and then Great Stuffed it. The drip log was just held in place while I great stuffed that in position as well. It was a little tricky, but I was able to get it into the exact postion I wanted eventually.



> The filter in my opinion is over kill, I've been running a water feature in one of my tanks for 2+yrs with no filter. I just siphon off excess water collected from misting.


Mike, I couldn't agree with you more. Most everything in this tank is overkill! The appeal of the pump/filter was that I could use it externally without a sump (i.e. accessible), it had a nice low flow, and it was realtively inexpensive. Having the capacity to hold filter media was just an added bonus. My expectations of the pump were not too high when I purchased it. I have to admit I've been pleasantly surprised with it thus far.


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## summitwynds (Jan 22, 2006)

I use a Zoo Med 501 also to run a waterfall/drip wall. Got it at That Fish Place for around $30. I was ordering a few other things (bulkheads). The way I did it was to install 2 -1/2" bulkheads. One near the bottom and one up fairly high (about 16" up). The Zoo Med uses 3/8" tubing, so for the bottom bulkhead, I attached 1/2" tubing, then a 1/2" brass female adaptor with barb to a 3/8" male adaptor with barb into the 3/8" tubing that came with the filter, then into the filter. For the top bulkhead I just used the 3/8" tubing that came with the filter and put handifoam around it. That filter was a little to strong for what I wanted but all I did was position the filter close to the tank and it created a kink in the tubing that goes into the filter. I can adjust the waterflow just by moving the filter. El Cheapo!! I am also impressed with this little filter and like the idea of cleaning the water and having it outside the tank.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

I'm just waaay to paranoid to use the hose kink method! Plus, I'm a gear junkie... Tim Allen style... Sure it works, but I can make it better! 

It's a curse.


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## Hak (Jul 10, 2005)

Very nice tank! I like the way you intergarted the 501. Those FCA kits are very nice. Do the cut them to custom sizes? I took the the black frame work off of the tank im workin on and was wondering of they can make it a tad bigger.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

I'm pretty sure FCA would make a front to meet your needs. Not sure how the acrylic to glass seal would work, but I'm guessing others on this board have tried that before... Visit he FCA websit and shoot them an email.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

I love this tank.. any updated pics?


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## zaroba (Apr 8, 2006)

thats a beutiful tank.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Very nice, what kind of moss is it that you use?


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Bad news guys...

I finished my stand/housing for the tank (it REALLY turned out nice - I need to update with some pictures) and then I tried to get cute and pop in a misting nozzle with a spear point drill bit.... Long story short, I broke the glass on the top of the tank. I was bummed, but figured I could swap out the glass with another piece without too much trouble. Well, the swap ended with me breaking one of the side pieces from top to bottom. She's no longer water tight and in need of a whole new tank... I bought another 10 gal. with the hopes of transferring everything over, but it's a major project and I just haven't had time in the last couple weeks.

Unfortunately, I can't ID the moss for you either. I have a client with a nice shady side of their building and a sprinkler system that keeps the soil constantly moist. That spot grows the most lush and beautiful moss I've ever seen. It seems to do very well in my vivs with low lighting and absolutely thrives under high light. Sorry I can't be more specific than "Northern California collected moss". Just for the record, I also have a nice patch of moss on the north side of my office and that moss is not nearly as lush or vibrant...


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## summitwynds (Jan 22, 2006)

Sorry to hear of your mishap! That is a real bummer, your viv was real nice.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

Ya, thats really sad.. I guess you can use that as an excuse to build up a whole new one(and post pictures of course).


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Aw man, sorry to hear that Jeremy! If you ever feel like making another one like that for a local frogger let me know... BTW, I added a possible female quinq and as of now the males seem to be pretty interested! Who knows, maybe I can hook up some of you local froggers down the road .

Jordan


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## alifer (Oct 24, 2005)

> So where did you find those disconnects? I too am an chronic over-engineeringaholic. We should have meetings or something.





> I picked up the disconnects at McMaster-Carr. I saw them when I was ordering some fine ss mesh. They were really $$ though... I suspect there are less expensive versions out there if you did a little hunting. They do work very well though, and I'm glad I have them. It will save a lot of wear and tear on the bulkheads and fittings.


Sorry to hear about your glass mishap. It’s really easy to break glass when removing a pane from a tank. 

A cheap alternate to the dripless disconnects would be to use the quick disconnect hose couplers available at most home improvement stores, along with a ball valve to shut off the water flow. Some of the disconnects even come with a built-in shut off valve. I’ve used them before on drilled fish tanks and they work pretty well as long as I remembered to turn the ball valve back on after they were reconnected. I used threaded reducers to reduce the hose couplers to the correct size for what ever size water line I was using.

Rick


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## LMUdartfrogger (Oct 19, 2004)

Hi Jeremy,

Do you have an update for us? Would love to see the stand and canopy! 

Thanks!


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Very nice viv! I can't get up the courage to try anything fancy like that!


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks guys! I should have an update soon... The new tank is almost done and as soon as the new FCA insert arrives I'll plant and post pictures of the tank AND stand/hood. Hopefully next week.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Here's a little teaser guys. As previously mentioned I broke the tank just as I finished the stand, then had to rebuild the tank... Anyway, here are a few pics of the empty stand waiting for the new tank to be completed...

Here's a picture of the empty stand:










Here's a shot with the back open so I can access all the goodies once the tank is in place:










And here's a shot with the top up (lights on!). This allows room for the tank to slide in and the top to come down and wrap snugly around the top (hiding the misting and other junk):










I will take some shot of the tank and stand together as soon as I have a chance...

Enjoy!


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Dude - the tank was beautiful.

The stand is just stunning. 

Nice work.

s


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2006)

Talk about having a nice work enviroment!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

WOW! That is amazing. YOu went above and beyond on that one. Very nice work. If I get the opportunity to have a couple of those in my office, you will be receiving some pm's!!! :wink: 

Really great job!


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## Ridge (Jun 7, 2004)

That's an awesome stand ! I would be a little concerned of the proximity of the electric supply to the water in the case of a filter/pump malfunction - I would suggest maybe sliding a gallon zip lock bag up over the entire surge protector and rubber band it at the top to keep any potential water out. 

I can't tell you how nice that stand/cabinet is though, please post some pics of it with the tank in when you get it done. 

Dave


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## LMUdartfrogger (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes, stunning work!!! Maybe you should have been a carpenter!

Another concern, would the electrical equipment get too hot? Might fry your frogs if it's closed up all the time. There's also the concern about water splash. How about a small computer fan to keep things cool and dry?

I think you would have some definate takers if you decided to build and sell those stands!


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## Guest (Jun 16, 2006)

*tank*

very cool!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Wow! That stand is top notch!!

I have a comment. I'm not sure how stupid this comment is though, so bear with me...

I have NEVER seen a stand like that for a terrarium before. Especially one with a space in the back and that has the lid with the lights that lift up like that. I would suggest you get a patent on that design if you can so that no one could steal your beautiful and unique design. Please get a patent... and then make one for me...


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## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

Too late I'm copying (not for selling or profit though)!!!!! Immitation is the best form of flattery!


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## schegini14 (May 17, 2006)

Where did you get all that nice moss from?


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Hey thanks for all the compliments!

It was really a learning experience... my first attempt at making something "nice" out of wood. And it took forever... but it turned out exactly as I had envisioned it so I feel pretty good about that. The worst part was glueing all the trim pieces on. I only used 2 screws in the entire thing. All dowels and glue. With only 3 wood clamps it was pretty slow going!




> I would be a little concerned of the proximity of the electric supply to the water in the case of a filter/pump malfunction - I would suggest maybe sliding a gallon zip lock bag up over the entire surge protector and rubber band it at the top to keep any potential water out.


I can appreciate your concern. I'm a safety professional by trade... Rest assured, the water intake and output are located on the opposite side of the tank and well below the electrical powersupply. 



> Another concern, would the electrical equipment get too hot? Might fry your frogs if it's closed up all the time. There's also the concern about water splash. How about a small computer fan to keep things cool and dry?


I'm one step ahead of you! Heat was a concern for me too, so if you look in the second picture you can see two black squares at the rear of the top. Those are both 60mm computer fans adjusted to run at about 1/2 speed. They are on the same timer as the lights and keep my "in-tank" temps within 1-2 degrees of my office temp at the top of the tank. As previously mentioned, all the plumbing is opposite and below the electrical. And with my no-drip disconnects I can remove and replace the pump with zero splash potential. I should mention, I finished the replacement tank a couple weeks ago, so everything has been together for evaluation and my ammy's have moved into their permanent home. As a gift, they've promptly rewarded me with 5 fertile eggs (they're first clutch!) 













> I would suggest you get a patent on that design if you can so that no one could steal your beautiful and unique design. Please get a patent... and then make one for me...


Well, I've looked into patenting a few things in the past (and I have a patent lawyer for a brother-in-law) and it turns out it's pretty darn expensive to get one! I'm told 10K - 15K is an average cost... I'd have to sell a lot of stands to make that worth my while!! And with a production rate of about 1 every 2 months it would certainly be a long term payoff... I've considered making a few more to sell, but time has been short lately. I may have to make some time if people would be interested...

Please do feel free to copy the design. I copied a lot of my design from RGB and his awesome 18 gal viv stand. I've had wood trim envy ever since I saw his journal... http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13307




> Where did you get all that nice moss from?


The moss was collected from from the shady side of a nearby building. Just wild Northern California moss... I've found several clearly distinct types just by poking around in shady places. Just make sure you talk to the landscaper/owner so you know if or what has been sprayed and when.


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## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

What are you waiting for man! Post pics of that fine setup of yours!!!


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

that looks awsome! the pools look really good i couldnt imagine it when i read it but the pics show it clearly, nice job. what plants did you use? their growing really well.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2006)

are their any updates?


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## Vicky Rut (Apr 28, 2006)

Wow! 
That was a really great tank, sad to hear it got ruined thoug 

The stand is just exelent! A real beuty!

Can't wait to see the whole thing finished


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

*Finally... It's update time!*

Ok, so with my wedding last month and all the commotion that surrounds such a huge event I've not had much time for the board... my apologies. 

That said, I was able to salvage the background from the original "office viv" and more or less recreate everything into a new tank. 

Finally, I am able to provide some photos of the tank AND stand together! I made a few modifications along the way to improve things (IMO).

Here are some shot of the whole set-up as it sits on my desk: You can see I decided to build my own door. No hinges, just a single removeable piece of glass.







































Close-up of the stand exhaust fans. I run them at about half speed and they remove the heat from the light ballast and other electronics very efficiently. The "hood" is actually about 3/4" longer than the top of the tank so that make-up air is pulled from the front of the hood, across the lights for cooling, and then out the rear of the stand. The interior temps stay within about 1 degree F of the ambient room temp.










As before, the top still hinges to allow viewing from above and the placement/removal of the tank itself. 










A closer look at the top reveals a single misting bulkhead (with 2 nozzles inside) and the relocated exhaust fan for the tank. I decided to mount the fan under the hood to remove it from view and to help eliminate any fan noise. With the fan operating the glass stays perfectly clear, but my humidity drops down into the high 80's. It's nice to have when people come in to look, but I don't usually need it to keep the front clear. Without the fan humidity sits around 98%.










As before, all the goodies and support equipment lives behind the tank. It's snug, but there is still plenty of room if I decide to put the fan on a seperate timer, or even mount the misting pump and timer inside the stand (they currently sit under my desk out of sight).










The only thing that is outwardly visible on the tank is the power strip cord (with space saving built-in timer), the water drain line, and the misting system supply line. I think the cord grommet keeps things looking pretty tidy.










With the new door design, I was finally able to justify the purchase of one of these... yeah!










It took a few tries to get the hang of it, but once mastered, it works pretty darn slick!










When I first built the front I was nervous that I would drop or otherwise break the glass and be stuck with a wide open tank... Now that I've used the system on a few of my tanks I'm much less concered about breakage. In any event, at a cost of about $3.50 a piece I had a few spare pieces of glass cut just in case... Turns out the extra doors are very convenient when they get dirty. I can just swap out a clean door and clean the dirty one when I get around to it. I calculate the total cost for the entire door (acrylic, vent, screen, and glass) was less than $20 for materials.

As previously mentioned, I was able to pop the original background out of the broken tank and re-install it into a new aquarium. Reconnecting the waterfall system proved to be a real challenge. Since my original bulkhead was foamed into the background, I had to cut off the flange portion of it. Since it was threaded internally, my hope was that I could drill a new tank and screw a 1/2" fitting into the old bulkhead and basically create a "new" bulkhead to seal against the glass. 2 more broken tanks later (the stress from tightening the bulkhead was just too much for the thin 10 gal. tank glass), I had to scrap my original plan and route tubing behind the background and tie it into the waterfall. It took some work, but I was able to get it together.

Here are the final results:

Not quite as heavily planted as the original, but still plenty of hiding spots...










The flowing pools/drip log is still in action...










My jewel orchid is starting to get a little tall...










The flowing pools are still visible from the outside of the tank, and the slow flow of water down the drip log is a favorite hunting place for the frogs.










Finally, here's one of the few decent shots of one of the inhabitants. This guy is a bruiser and is my resident stud.


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

I love it Jeremy, great job!


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks Jordan!

Maybe I'll throw a few more together for you to take to your table in September...


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## jmcc000 (Apr 7, 2005)

That stand is unreal!!!
Looks great!!


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## LMUdartfrogger (Oct 19, 2004)

Ok, first off...

Congrats on your marriage! Awesome!!!

Second,

If dendroboard had a TOTM, you would get my vote. (Hey mods, how about a VOTM - Vivarium of the Month!)

Excellent Work Jeremy!


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

The whole setup is outstanding! Im sure the people in your office love it. 

Frank


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Top to bottom...nuts to bolts...inside and out...hands down the the most creative all-in-one viv! Great job. Now if that only came in an extra large size...say a 70 gallon vert. :shock:


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks for all the positive responses! I had so much fun building it, I'm sure it won't be long before I dream up another project.

Baby steps David, baby steps! (Though I do like were your mind is at!)

Hmmmm, I wonder how many of Darren Meyer's red legged retics I could put in a 70 gal. vert?.?.?....


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

JL-Exotics said:


> Thanks Jordan!
> 
> Maybe I'll throw a few more together for you to take to your table in September...


First off, congrats on your marriage Jeremy! That's awesome, sorry I missed that. 

Second, i'm happy to sell a few for you there...and if you ever feel like making a big one for me let me know !


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2006)

:shock: 

Sweet mother of vivariums!

Its so beautiful! Not to sound noobish or any thing, but what are the film cases for?


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

What a newbie ! Just kidding, the film cases are used as egg laying sites by many of the thumbnail dart frogs, just like coco huts are used as spawning sites by the larger frogs.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

ANy updated pics ???





Todd


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Lots of pics! Check the bottom of page 3 for last weeks update.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Nice , Howd I miss that?!?!?

BTW wuts that plant in front of the Ludisia Discolor???

I have one in My Ole Marie viv and havent an Idea wut it is . Pilea??



Thanx ,

Todd


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

:shock: Nice!! 
Are there any updates on this tank?


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