# sterlizing substrates



## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Sooooo I did some searching and not much has come up on this topic in atleast 2 years or longer.. I have always had issues with grindel worms or nemerteans in our vivs, and now we are starting out fresh with all new vivs from the ground up.. We are wanting to take every possible precaution to hopefully avoid any un wanted pests.. I am gonna basically treat any plant that is gonna be touching the vivs be it vines or moss with a 10% bleach.. I will boil and bake every leaf that will be used and my last possible chance for outside interference will be substrates.. I am gonna be using purchased ABG. and I will not name names because I dont want to have anything turn out in a manner that could be pointed at the seller (the seller rocks btw) Is there anyone out there that takes special care with substrates? Do you boil it? Bake it? Both? Any insight on steps you take would be great.. I have read older posts of people saying just toss it in because its already sterile and blah blah but, I am sure as a hobby we have grown in the last few years to know not to trust anything that we didnt treat ourselves.. lol. I would just hate to sterlize everything except the substrate and end up in the same situation. CO2 bombing doesnt kill eggs.. Learned that the hard way with slugs and snails lol. Hope to hear some good feedback on this!


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

I microwave my substrates for 5 minutes with the substrate being thoroughly moistened. I have not had issues with nemerteans in either of my 2 vivs.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I had thoguht about keeping it moist and just tossing in the microwave as well.. But always a bit hesitant with that because of radiation.. sure its safe for humans but what about the frogs? Gonna get a tadpole that sprouts a 5th leg? haha. Just paranoia im sure.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Pressure cooker-15psi for an hour


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

frogparty said:


> Pressure cooker-15psi for an hour


what about the rest of us who dont have a pressure cooker?! lol. Im not that fancy sadly.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Several years ago I bought a few large stock pots just for soil and leaves. I bring either to a rolling boil for about 20 minutes.


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## IROCthisZ28 (Sep 2, 2013)

I am so glad you posted this because I was wondering this very thing myself. Dane, after you boil it, how do you go about drying it? Do you bake it or just let it air dry?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

IROCthisZ28 said:


> I am so glad you posted this because I was wondering this very thing myself. Dane, after you boil it, how do you go about drying it? Do you bake it or just let it air dry?


Leaves I bake dry, soil mix I just drain off excess water and allow to cool.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

frogparty said:


> Pressure cooker-15psi for an hour


Careful with this idea... I did that a couple of times, until one day the pressure cooker exploded (the release valve gave way due to a clot) and I had to clean the ceiling, walls, cabinets, counters, appliances, and floor, not to mention the heart attack I almost had. It was not fun to remove dirt and brown water from every part of a white kitchen.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

NEVER CHEAP OUT ON A PRESSURE COOKER! 
Let me tell you, I used a 64 qt pressure cooker for YEARS to do mycelium fungal culture, with absolutely no incident. 64 quart is WAAAY bigger than what most people use. Before that I had an 8 qt cooker, and before that a 4 quart. Pressure cookers are extremely safe if you do your gasket checks/regular maintenance. 

Dont scare people away from the only REAL WAY to sterilize substrate


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Not scaring people away, just sharing what happened to me. 
Should I not mention my experience, you would not have added the details about your industrial size pressure cooker and your maintenance routine.

Next time you may want to use "autoclave" instead of "pressure-cooker."


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

well, anyone can buy a pressure cooker, Not everyone has access to an autoclave. 

I used to have a drive in autoclave/pasteurizer. You could drive a forklift into it, so much awesome. When you work with pressure and superheated steam/water, a thought to extra safety and maintenance should ALWAYS be at the front of your mind


Pasteurizing substrate at 155F should do a lot towards cleaning up a lot of potential nasties from your substrate too. hold at temp for 2 hrs then let cool, drain and use!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

A couple of comments here... first off, grindal worms and nemerteans are totally different things... 

second, I highly doubt you will be able to avoid "grindal worms". These are highly likely to come into the enclosures with the plants and should be ignored as they are harmless. 

third Nemerteans are a problem and the species we see in the hobby, is one that can form a cocoon so dips in a disinfection solution is unlikely to impact a cocooned nemertean. You cannot heat the plants sufficiently to kill the nemertean. 

fourth.. I have to question where the labor of sanitizing all of the organics is worth the attempt as not only are you removing any potential unwanted species, you are decimating the microbe populations, and changing the structure on the organics. This could lead to an overgrowth of undesirable microbes (for example Aeromonas ssp) which are known amphibian pathogens... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I would be willing to bet the in most if not all cases the worms or non-wanted hitch hikers came in on plants and leaf litter. I don't use typical abg type mixes so I have really never had to sterilize substrate other then leaf litter....


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

The pressure cooker is the best method IMO. It is basically a home autoclave. If you are not interested in using one then you could do the microwave trick. Radiation from a microwave is not radioactive it does not stick with the material and emit later. However I don't see any reason why people run short microwave cycles. If you put some dinner items in a microwave they will take longer than 5 minutes to cook inside. So go for a longer time 20 minutes, cook it good. Another option is to use dry heat, just set the oven to 300F or so and cook for a couple hours. Each cooking method can impart a different smell on the substrate. 

As for contamination the only way to be sure is to sterilize it all. The plants are obviously the hardest to decontaminate. Take clipping only and bleach them.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I understand there are pros and cons to everything ed, I just honestly hate the sight of worms in vivs.. Our frogs leave them alone.. So within a matter of weeks we have an insane amount of worms all over the leaf litter and glass.. Just a really nasty sight.. I know they have not given us issues with our frogs and froglets but it's just unpleasant for myself.. So why not take steps to safe guard.. And I do agree it is most likely coming in with the plants but again, why start a job that needs 100% dedication if you are only planning on giving it 80% before you start. Just my logic


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Nismo95 said:


> I understand there are pros and cons to everything ed, I just honestly hate the sight of worms in vivs.. Our frogs leave them alone.. So within a matter of weeks we have an insane amount of worms all over the leaf litter and glass.. Just a really nasty sight.. I know they have not given us issues with our frogs and froglets but it's just unpleasant for myself.. So why not take steps to safe guard.. And I do agree it is most likely coming in with the plants but again, why start a job that needs 100% dedication if you are only planning on giving it 80% before you start. Just my logic


So every time you start to see what you consider to be excessive grindal worm populations your going to tear down your enclosures? Given their doubling time, your going to be doing it a lot... 
Have you considered instead evaluating your husbandry methods to determine what is enabling and sustaining the huge population boom? One of the most common conditions I've seen in tanks with huge "grindal worm" populations is excessive humidity/moisture combined with insufficient ventilation and air movement... If your getting large amounts of water condensing on the glass and other surfaces in the tank, you may want to consider modifying the exterior temperature differential and increasing ventilation.... 

As another topic point, have you considered the idea that since you are sterilizing the substrate and everything else, you are also limiting the potential things that could help control the "grindal worms" such as different microbes, viruses and fungi? Instead, you are offering them a free buffet with no or little competition.. and this is before we get to the issue of lack of microbial populations being an issue... such as being able to break down and sequester nitrogenous waste products...(and those from the breakdown of substrates...) 

People often lose sight of the idea that the enclosures are little ecologies and we should be working within those constraints... 

some comments 

Ed


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

You make amazing points.. I think it's just a thin line that we all walk with our enclosures.. Of course i don't want to tear down an enclosure everytime they get over run with worms.. And yes I have considered the ventilation and moisture aspect too, which is why with my new 6 vivs I have done some serious work to better the ventilation and of course I'll work with the misting schedules to see what works best to keep the ideal temps/humidity for the frogs. I've learned a lot about just how much moisture these frogs need as long as humidity is up so definitely opened my eyes to that since they have been in temp tubs. I am glad you have chimed in with your input on not doing anything to substrates.. As I would like to see the ups and downs to doing it or not. I'm glad this was not a one sided conversation, so thank you for speaking up! I do value your input Ed



Ed said:


> So every time you start to see what you consider to be excessive grindal worm populations your going to tear down your enclosures? Given their doubling time, your going to be doing it a lot...
> Have you considered instead evaluating your husbandry methods to determine what is enabling and sustaining the huge population boom? One of the most common conditions I've seen in tanks with huge "grindal worm" populations is excessive humidity/moisture combined with insufficient ventilation and air movement... If your getting large amounts of water condensing on the glass and other surfaces in the tank, you may want to consider modifying the exterior temperature differential and increasing ventilation....
> 
> As another topic point, have you considered the idea that since you are sterilizing the substrate and everything else, you are also limiting the potential things that could help control the "grindal worms" such as different microbes, viruses and fungi? Instead, you are offering them a free buffet with no or little competition.. and this is before we get to the issue of lack of microbial populations being an issue... such as being able to break down and sequester nitrogenous waste products...(and those from the breakdown of substrates...)
> ...


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

To me, the biggest source of grindle worms has always been charcoal springtail cultures. I feel like the introduction into your viv is inevitable. 

I don't think they pose anything more than an aesthetic issue. My Leucs actually eat them off the glass


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I find these discussion interesting but a lot of things just do not match with what I think about various animals. 

For things like grindal worms and nematodes I don't understand why people feel they are impossible to keep out. I also still cannot understand why some people feel they are perfectly capable of maintaining huge collections of frogs slug and nemertean free but not free of grindals / nematodes. And the first line of defense seems to be cited as bleach treating plants. I have already touched on this in my other thread that I am puzzled that such large animals like slugs / nemerteans would succumb to bleach but not the plant itself or smaller worms like nematodes. The argument I guess is that nematodes must be small enough to get into crevices and then have something seal in behind them so bleach will not also diffuse in fast enough to kill them. 

IMO these small worms are not going to survive desiccation moving on their own through your house and into vivarium's unless you have them in a humid location or they are riding in on other insects / supplies that were not treated. And in support of this many people seem to feel that dry ABG is not the source of these various contaminations as it should not support these animals or their eggs for any length of time. Micro organisms are entirely different they can come in through the air. And apparently mites will do the same and are very desiccation resistant. Various flies I suppose like phorid flies could probably get in and you would never be able to stop them. 

Another thing is that a lot of people say nematodes are harmless but there are nematodes that are definitely predators of insects. In fact Wikipedia claims that 40% of all round worms are parasites. But many here seems dead sure (based on their vile hate for nemerteans and almost universal indifference to nematodes) that the small barely visible nematodes seen in their vivs are not these other nematodes that are also small and barely visible that would go after various insects just as a nemertean would. 

Don't misinterpret this post please, I totally get that some people perhaps Ed and others I know are more into the natural, IE just let the ecosystem go. Anything that doesn't harm the frogs is just fine. I know various froggers just say its all good millipedes, nemerteans, slugs, snails, etc... But on the other hand if someone else is not of that thought line why try to talk them out of it with a lot of maybes. Maybe we can just help them select the most likely way of preventing infestation and see if they can pull it off for a decent amount of time.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Remember, plants have a cell WALL, nematode a, slugs etc do not. That's a BIG PART of why sterilization of plant tissue with bleach can be effective


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

just as you put it frogparty.. They pose no harm.. its all aesthetics for the person viewing the viv.. And that is just that.. I want to be able to look into my new vivs and not have to wipe down a million worms to do so. I do agree with Ed as well, I probably kept my setups a bit more on the wet side and over misted thus resulting in more unwanted worms. In the time our frogs have been in their temp enclosures I have learned just how little of misting you can get away with and still have the frogs perfectly healthy and breeding. So I am going to be taking my precautions with bleach water dips and I am most likely going to go about treating the substrates.. I just want to take all steps in doing what I can to prevent the worm infestations again.. If I am the person to have a mishap and have frogs perish because I screwed up the natural balance with baking my substrates I will be the first to jump on board and admit I messed up and definately warn others. My frogs are what are important to me.. not their vivs, plants, or substrates.. Healthy frogs are my main priority.. And I will do what is best for them. If I can spend a bit more time doing my home work and researching sanitizing stuff better I will.. And trust me, I will be.. I dont plan to have them fully setup and substrate added for another week or 2.. There is no rush for me. But please, keep the ball rolling here.. I really do like the double sided discussion. Its food for thought, and if we cant debate the ideas of things with one another what will we learn?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JPccusa said:


> Not scaring people away, just sharing what happened to me.


Why wouldn't you place the materials inside an autoclave bag to prevent clogging the vent and safety valve? See Scienceware® Clavies® Autoclavable Plastic Bags | U.S. Plastic Corp. for example of the bags I'm talking about. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pubfiction said:


> And the first line of defense seems to be cited as bleach treating plants. I have already touched on this in my other thread that I am puzzled that such large animals like slugs / nemerteans would succumb to bleach but not the plant itself or smaller worms like nematodes. The argument I guess is that nematodes must be small enough to get into crevices and then have something seal in behind them so bleach will not also diffuse in fast enough to kill them.


I haven't seen the discussion in your other thread.... There are some physiological reasons and some physical barriers as to why there is a difference when bleaching (and they actually can apply to other "disinfecting" agents as well). 
The vast majority of plants have a waxy coating on the leaves/stems to reduce water loss. This reduces/prevents the sodium hypochlorite from attacking a lot of the plant cells right off the bat. The second reason is that the plant doesn't count on exchanging oxygen and carbon dioxide through the vast majority of the exposed tissues... This is not the case when discussing slugs, nemerteans or any other unwanted soft bodied invertebrate. These tend to count on gas exchange via the surface area of the tissues and are not protected by a waxy cuticle.... 

As for physical barriers, small cracks and crevices can through surface tension retain pockets of air preventing penetration of the disinfecting agent regardless of the type. In most cases this can be eliminated through the use of surfactant, but surfactants are not suggested for use in amphibian furnishings as most leave a residue which can damage the skin of the amphibians. 
The second physical barrier is in plants that have tight overlapping leaf structures. These can harbor eggs, juveniles or even adult free living invertebrates without a problem. The animals may not be released into the wider enclosure until the leaves die back or are damaged... 

They don't tend to need to seal it behind themselves for protection... in most cases surface tension works just fine. With that said, animals like snails and the nemertean we commonly see in the tank can form a resting cocoon when conditions aren't to it's liking. This can also prevent contact with any disinfecting agent. 




Pubfiction said:


> IMO these small worms are not going to survive desiccation moving on their own through your house and into vivarium's unless you have them in a humid location or they are riding in on other insects / supplies that were not treated.


I'm not sure why you would think that eggs cannot survive the dry conditions....many terrestrial annelids deposit their eggs in a cocoon like structure that can resist freezing, and dry conditions for extended periods of time (conditions that would kill an adult or hatched juvenile... 




Pubfiction said:


> Another thing is that a lot of people say nematodes are harmless but there are nematodes that are definitely predators of insects. In fact Wikipedia claims that 40% of all round worms are parasites. But many here seems dead sure (based on their vile hate for nemerteans and almost universal indifference to nematodes) that the small barely visible nematodes seen in their vivs are not these other nematodes that are also small and barely visible that would go after various insects just as a nemertean would.


Predatory nematodes require a prey species to remain available and their populations do not increase without the prey so without the prey. In a enclosed environment, you would see the prey species disappear and then the predatory nematode population would collapse. This is not what we see in the enclosures so we can readily rule that scenario as highly unlikely. As for parasitic nematodes, that have a free living stage (like Rhabdiform nematodes) you would see them in the frogs on necropsy or fecal checks as they can build to super infections in enclosed enclosures. 



Pubfiction said:


> But on the other hand if someone else is not of that thought line why try to talk them out of it with a lot of maybes. Maybe we can just help them select the most likely way of preventing infestation and see if they can pull it off for a decent amount of time.


If you search back into the mists of time, I was one of the people who pointed out that bleach could be used a safe disinfecting agent as it is used to disinfect plant tissues for use in tissue culture and if well rinsed leaves no residue to harm the frogs... 
I've also been the one who has been pointing out that the vast majority of efforts by the hobby at large do not do what they want to accomplish.. for example baking/boiling wood for a brief period of time.. In both cases you need to keep it up until the wood is heated totally through.. 
Another draw back to these sorts of efforts is the damage done to the materials to put them into the tanks.. for example humic acids are removed from the leaves, substrates, or wood increasing it's rate of degredation as well as reducing it's ability to release materials that are often beneficial to tadpoles. 
It's not so much to talk people out of something as opposed to educate them on what they are doing and how it can impact the frogs. The enclosures people set up whether they want to or not are miniature ecologies and depending on what they are doing, this can have a positive or negative impact on the frogs in the long run. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Ed said:


> Another draw back to these sorts of efforts is the damage done to the materials to put them into the tanks.. for example humic acids are removed from the leaves, substrates, or wood increasing it's rate of degredation as well as reducing it's ability to release materials that are often beneficial to tadpoles.


I've always considered the partial break down of leaves & wood due to heating to be a beneficial thing, at least in the case of vivarium use. Wouldn't it make it easier for tadpoles and microfauna to utilize the dried plant material if it can be more easily chewed\pulled apart?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dane said:


> I've always considered the partial break down of leaves & wood due to heating to be a beneficial thing, at least in the case of vivarium use. Wouldn't it make it easier for tadpoles and microfauna to utilize the dried plant material if it can be more easily chewed\pulled apart?


It may make it easier to consume but it doesn't mean that it is nutritionally better and this is before we get to the humic acids that are being removed from the materials. Humic acids are what colors tadpole tea and are potentially important in assisting the immune system to repel things like fungal infections. 
In general boiling etc, (particularly for excessive periods of time) actually removes nutrients from the organic materials.. 

Some comments


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Ed said:


> It may make it easier to consume but it doesn't mean that it is nutritionally better and this is before we get to the humic acids that are being removed from the materials. Humic acids are what colors tadpole tea and are potentially important in assisting the immune system to repel things like fungal infections.
> In general boiling etc, (particularly for excessive periods of time) actually removes nutrients from the organic materials..
> 
> Some comments


What about boiling the leaves to make tadpole tea? IE use the boiled water from the leaves for the tads.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Guess it ultimately comes down to whether you would be more interested in keeping bad stuff out or letting good stuff in. We all have to find our particular balance.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I think the humic acids serve as an anti fungal/ antibacterial aid predominantly as a means to lower the pH of the water. If you're using RO/DI water, the pH is already likely pretty low (5.5 at my lab) 

Not sure how long the humic or fulvic acids remain in the leaf litter or substrate when moisture is constantly leaching them away anyway. 

On a related note, this is why pressure cooking or autoclaving materials in an appropriate bag or container is the best, because you ARENT leaching anything out and away from the leaves or substrate


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Ed said:


> I'm not sure why you would think that eggs cannot survive the dry conditions....many terrestrial annelids deposit their eggs in a cocoon like structure that can resist freezing, and dry conditions for extended periods of time (conditions that would kill an adult or hatched juvenile...


This particular comment wasn't about eggs, it was more about musing about the unlikely event that a nematode could get into a vivarium on its own by any means other than the keeper putting it in there inadvertently. And all of that comes back to are the sterilization techniques really effective? To try to make sure my point is clear, people seem to be sure they can keep out nemerteans, slugs etc... But at the same time sure it is nearly impossible to do the same with nematodes. IMO nematodes have to be introduced to the vivariums, or feed stock by the owner in average dry houses. In which case why can't nemerteans, slugs, etc come in through the same route. 



Ed said:


> Predatory nematodes require a prey species to remain available and their populations do not increase without the prey so without the prey. In a enclosed environment, you would see the prey species disappear and then the predatory nematode population would collapse. This is not what we see in the enclosures so we can readily rule that scenario as highly unlikely. As for parasitic nematodes, that have a free living stage (like Rhabdiform nematodes) you would see them in the frogs on necropsy or fecal checks as they can build to super infections in enclosed enclosures.


I am new so I do not claim to know exactly what we see. But it seems that people would constantly be feeding predatory nematodes fruit flies at the least and possibly other bugs. This could allow them to survive, then some people also reseed with their micro fauna (spring tails and isopods) either purposely for reseeding or indirectly for food. Once again this could help a population bounce back, or just provide more food or perhaps something in the middle that masks what is happening in the vivarium. Are many of these enclosures not complex enough to provide niches for sustaining predator prey oscillations. If they are not how do we know that?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

goof901 said:


> What about boiling the leaves to make tadpole tea? IE use the boiled water from the leaves for the tads.


There isn't anything in this to indicate that people shouldn't use tadpole teas. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dane said:


> Guess it ultimately comes down to whether you would be more interested in keeping bad stuff out or letting good stuff in. We all have to find our particular balance.


This is true... However the current mindset for most of the people in the hobby is that these *things must be done... *and often the recommendations for method are problematic at best and terrible at worse (for example, the times recommended for boiling and then baking wood..)

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogparty said:


> I think the humic acids serve as an anti fungal/ antibacterial aid predominantly as a means to lower the pH of the water. If you're using RO/DI water, the pH is already likely pretty low (5.5 at my lab)


The low pH in RO water is due to the presence of dissolved carbon dioxide reacting with the water to form H2CO3 and subsequently disassociating... This is because the RO filter has stripped out any ions that would buffer the solution reducing or preventing the discussion. 



frogparty said:


> Not sure how long the humic or fulvic acids remain in the leaf litter or substrate when moisture is constantly leaching them away anyway.


Until there isn't any more lignin available for decomposition. All of the easily released humic acids are removed during the boiling phase of disinfection. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pubfiction said:


> This particular comment wasn't about eggs, it was more about musing about the unlikely event that a nematode could get into a vivarium on its own by any means other than the keeper putting it in there inadvertently. And all of that comes back to are the sterilization techniques really effective? To try to make sure my point is clear, people seem to be sure they can keep out nemerteans, slugs etc... But at the same time sure it is nearly impossible to do the same with nematodes. IMO nematodes have to be introduced to the vivariums, or feed stock by the owner in average dry houses. In which case why can't nemerteans, slugs, etc come in through the same route.


Slugs do not have a method to deal with dessication.. even the eggs are susceptible to dessication... This is why it is unlikely to introduce slugs in that manner... 

The common nemertean we seem to have in the hobby forms a resting cocoon and can readily survive dessication... This is one that can avoid most of the methods hobbyists use to treat plants to colonize the enclosures. 

Nematodes and small annelids are much more likely to avoid the methods the hobby uses to treat materials due to their size and ability to penetrate into small cracks and crevices for example, if baking or boiling a piece of wood, you have to make sure that the wood is heated completely through otherwise it is possible for them to be hiding in a small crack or crevice that penetrates deep inside the wood, thus being sheltered from the heat. 
It is also much easier for them to hide in an area on a plant and avoid chemical treatments example between the leaves of a bromeliad or in a air bubble on a hairy leafed plant. 





Pubfiction said:


> I am new so I do not claim to know exactly what we see. But it seems that people would constantly be feeding predatory nematodes fruit flies at the least and possibly other bugs. This could allow them to survive, then some people also reseed with their micro fauna (spring tails and isopods) either purposely for reseeding or indirectly for food. Once again this could help a population bounce back, or just provide more food or perhaps something in the middle that masks what is happening in the vivarium. Are many of these enclosures not complex enough to provide niches for sustaining predator prey oscillations. If they are not how do we know that?


What makes you think that the nematodes you see are predatory on fruit flies? Think about it... Soil dwelling nematodes that are predatory on soft bodied invertebrates target those that are below the surface off the soil.. For example Steinernema feltiae which is used to target fungus gnats and fruit flies, doesn't target the adults. Instead it targets the larvae and if you do see an infected adult, it was infected during pupation and emerged with the infection and then died from it. Because of the way they target life cycles, it is had to make the case that adding adult flies is feeding the predatory nematode cycles. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Ed -
When you build a new tank, what items do you choose to disinfect (or not disinfect) & what are your methods when doing so?

I simply ask due to the amount of knowledge you have & I am interested in how an educated person such as yourself goes about it.

Thank you for your insight.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk


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