# confused about a couple substrate ingrediants



## Saviorself (Jun 29, 2010)

Im puttibg together my substrate and the list im using calls for 1 part peat and 1 part sphagnum. I have a bag that says sphagnum peat moss. Is this a bag of both things combined? Or am I looking for somethibg different?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Saviorself said:


> Im puttibg together my substrate and the list im using calls for 1 part peat and 1 part sphagnum. I have a bag that says sphagnum peat moss. Is this a bag of both things combined? Or am I looking for somethibg different?


If the bag says sphagnum peat moss, it is probably the dark brown, dirt like consistancy, right? That should be used as the peat ingredient. Sphagnum moss will be more of a tan in color and is in fibers or strands, an inch or two long. If you are making ABG mix or a similar mix, the sphagnum should be shredded or run through a blender.
Doug


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

That is peat moss. It's sphagnum that sat around in a bog, and became peat. When the recipe refers to sphagnum specifically, it means something like this:

Amazon.com: Zoo Med New Zealand Sphagnum Moss, .33 Pounds (150 grams): Home & Garden

BTW, the "n" key on your keyboard may be broken.


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## Saviorself (Jun 29, 2010)

Boondoggle said:


> That is peat moss. It's sphagnum that sat around in a bog, and became peat. When the recipe refers to sphagnum specifically, it means something like this:
> 
> Amazon.com: Zoo Med New Zealand Sphagnum Moss, .33 Pounds (150 grams): Home & Garden
> 
> BTW, the "n" key on your keyboard may be broken.


Ok I understand now 

Im actually using my android phone and for some reason I always hit the b instead of the n on the touch screen


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## Saviorself (Jun 29, 2010)

Do I need to wet all my ingrediants down before I put it in or can I throw it in dry? I only ask because I wont be adding plants for a bit. Its been to cold to have any shipped. Not sure if it needed to stay wet.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Are you making ABG mix? I'm going to assume yes since you and I discussed ABG a while back. ABG mix accepts water very hesitantly the very first time you wet it. On my first vivs 8 or 9 years ago I put it in dry. It was a HUGE pain! I'll never try that again. I know put it in a bucket and add plenty of water. Then I pull out big double handfuls, give it a light squeeze, and plop it in the viv, sort of fluffing it up so it doesn't stay compacted. 
Toss some springtails in right away and you'll be crawling in them by the time your plants get in. I set all my ABG mix up as a springtail culture a couple of months before the build. I set 5 vivs up in the last few days and every handful of ABG has AT LEAST 100 springtails!
Doug


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## Saviorself (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah im doing a mixture similar to abg mix, but im adding sand and mulched leaf litter. Thank you for the advice on the springtails. I wouldnt have even thought to start it before the plants. Whats the reason for blendering the sphagnum moss?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Saviorself said:


> Yeah im doing a mixture similar to abg mix, but im adding sand and mulched leaf litter. Thank you for the advice on the springtails. I wouldnt have even thought to start it before the plants. Whats the reason for blendering the sphagnum moss?


Because it is being used as a "dirt" to hold moisture. If you leave it in the long strands, it could possibly hold too much water in a given area and cause root rot. That's the reason they use tree fern fiber, orchid bark, and charcoal...they all work to "break up" the wet spots. This gives you great drainage and great aeration, while still holding good amounts of moisture.
I'm not sure why you are adding sand? I'm not sure I would want sand in my substrate...although I guess with enough leaf litter, you'll keep the frogs away from it anyway. I'm not sure the sand would hurt your frogs...It just feels wrong to me.
Doug


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## Saviorself (Jun 29, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Because it is being used as a "dirt" to hold moisture. If you leave it in the long strands, it could possibly hold too much water in a given area and cause root rot. That's the reason they use tree fern fiber, orchid bark, and charcoal...they all work to "break up" the wet spots. This gives you great drainage and great aeration, while still holding good amounts of moisture.
> I'm not sure why you are adding sand? I'm not sure I would want sand in my substrate...although I guess with enough leaf litter, you'll keep the frogs away from it anyway. I'm not sure the sand would hurt your frogs...It just feels wrong to me.
> Doug


I read quite a few threads that people used it in there mix and that it was good for drainage.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Saviorself said:


> I read quite a few threads that people used it in there mix and that it was good for drainage.


OK, that's a new one for me. Don't think you need it with ABG however. It's already designed to be very well drained.
Looking forward to seeing how it turns out when your plants get in.
Doug


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## Saviorself (Jun 29, 2010)

Is it 100% necessary to have the treefern fiber. Having a hard time finding it locally for a reasonable price.

Right now I have 
Orchid bark
Sphagnum moss
Peat moss
Charcoal
Leaf litter


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, there are many successful frog viv substrates that don't use it, but I think it's an important part of why it works so well. I think it really helps to "break up" the wet spots, adding aeration, etc.
Try OFE int. OFE International Web Page
TFF31-1
TFF32
Doug


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## TheOregonKid (Nov 25, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Are you making ABG mix? I'm going to assume yes since you and I discussed ABG a while back. ABG mix accepts water very hesitantly the very first time you wet it. On my first vivs 8 or 9 years ago I put it in dry. It was a HUGE pain! I'll never try that again. I know put it in a bucket and add plenty of water. Then I pull out big double handfuls, give it a light squeeze, and plop it in the viv, sort of fluffing it up so it doesn't stay compacted.
> Toss some springtails in right away and you'll be crawling in them by the time your plants get in. I set all my ABG mix up as a springtail culture a couple of months before the build. I set 5 vivs up in the last few days and every handful of ABG has AT LEAST 100 springtails!
> Doug


NICE! Some really good insights. I'm about to set up a new set of tanks wired to my new Mist King. I will order my ABG and sprintails now so I can get them started so they will be ready in a few weeks when I'm stocking the tanks.


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## Saurian (Oct 18, 2011)

any difference between peat moss and canadian peat moss or is it all the same?


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

I will try the turface, and thats even better if I don't have to buy anything else to add to the mix...


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

You HAVE to read the bags...if it is MILLED spagnum/Peat...you have to understand that that is a sterile media...it is typically used to start seeds just because it is sterile...read the labels!! Back and front to understand better so that you will know what to expect from your ingredients in your mix. Canadian peat, and long fibered spagnum which orchid people use, have spores of ferns, etc. that are dormant and may unexpectedly germinate .... pleasant surprises..because they have not gone through a sterilization process....


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

When I add the long fibered sphagnum moss, I wear rubber gloves and rub the dry fibers between my hands. That does a pretty good job of pulverizing it. (And I don't have to clean the blender) Make sure the fibers are dry (fresh out of the bag) when you do this. It doesn't work if the moss is wet. The ingredients mix better when they are dry anyway. Add water after everything is already mixed. (and them mix again.  )


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I know this is old but OFE doesn't have any because his supplier got a citation or something so he doesn't think he is gonna have anything until 2016 or sometime later that year


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Tree fern fiber was in short supply for a while, a lot of people couldn't get it. OFE has it in stock now.


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