# Silicone and Great Stuff & peat moss vs. cocofiber



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I have been researching this site for a while now and I've seen some use black GS with clear and black silicone and yellow GS with black and brown silicone.
I've also seen ppl use brown silicone for both

I'm just kinda torn cause there are so many different ways ppl do theirs....

If I use the yellow is it best to use black or brown silicone?
For the black is it best to use brown, black or clear silicone?

Also I've seen some use peat moss and some us cocofiber....which of these is best?
One more......I've seen ppl use tolulene(sp?) To thin the silicone....I can't find any anywhere and I don't really order online and I'm wondering if anything else will work...

Thanks


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

I wouldn't use toluene personally. Just straight silicone. Toluene is very close to benzene and can cause many health problems in humans. I'm assuming the same is true (if not more so) with frogs.

For everything else, it's just a matter of personal preference. Look back at build threads and see for yourself if one combination looks better to you than another. Any of those color combinations will work equally well.


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

Here are some common steps:
1. A layer of silicone on the glass
(I used black) to help the foam stick to the glass

2. GS foam as desired 
(I prefer black foam but it won't really matter if you coat it with something) 

3. Silicone layer over foam
(I used clear silicone because I could not find colored GE1 silicone but the color isn't crucial since you'll add peat/coco/whatever on top)
Optional: thin the silicone if desired

4. "dirt" covering pressed into silicone
(I used peat, others used cocofiber, but you can use what you want as long as it's non-toxic)
I have heard of rocks, sand, bark, etc being used successfully.

The concept is to build something you'll enjoy looking at but you must first meet the animal's needs.
(health, safety, easy to maintain, hide spots, etc)

Read through the build logs.
Most people explain what went right and what didn't. Ask questions but try the search feature first. Most of all, have fun and try to keep it simple.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

I personally like peat moss better...


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

For one of my setups 29gal: I used the method above but with some changes.

This step is not necessary however It seems to have more support than directly placing GS on the glass. 
(1. Gorilla glue eggcrate to the back of my Tank. I then GG shelve like features to that to create ledges.)

2. I then use GS all over the back and ledges to give more depth. I used black (pond and lakes), and regular (way cheaper) GS before. So far it seems the Black gets a little more hard to my knowledge. Both are very similar. I'd say if you are going to use a lot of GS I'd go for the tall can of regular (white) GS.

3. Silicone GE II brown (black or clear is fine no difference... however the peat/moss that dosent stick well will be shown easy if you choose the white GS. I'd suggest brown or black Silicone)

4. I placed a mixture of about 70%peat/30% coco-bedding to create more texture.


Other than that very similar to others on the board. So far my ledge system rocks! *Bad quality picture but you get what I mean.


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## mikefromearth (Feb 1, 2011)

Just dont stand your tank up when the GS is wet! It will fall off


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

mikefromearth said:


> Just dont stand your tank up when the GS is wet! It will fall off


I'm aware


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Steve88W said:


> Here are some common steps:
> 1. A layer of silicone on the glass
> (I used black) to help the foam stick to the glass
> 
> ...


I've never really seen this step before but I'm going to test the foam on this peice of glass I have.

will GE II be safe?

I have looked through builds but as I said things differe from person to person and hopefully I can find common ground this way.
As far as people saying what went wrong and whatnot....too many on here just post their build and don't get into very great detail of how it was build and things get left out


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## Bluestar (Apr 13, 2011)

I was wondering about the GE II myself. I can only find the 100% silicone in clear or white, and really hate to have to order and pay shipping for something else if I don't have to. 

And I have searched the threads, but have yet to find that one thread with the definitive answer.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

I am pretty sure GEII was deemed safe. I have used it in all my vivs, so if it isn't...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Bluestar said:


> I was wondering about the GE II myself. I can only find the 100% silicone in clear or white, and really hate to have to order and pay shipping for something else if I don't have to.
> 
> And I have searched the threads, but have yet to find that one thread with the definitive answer.


I deffinently agree with the first part...one thing that pisses me off is how ppl can find things at one Lowes or Home Depot yet in your own area they have no clue what you're asking about lol.

People gripe at me for asking such questions thinking I haven't researched...when I have.
Too many crucial steps get left out of threads and it leaves me sitting here scratching my head and also prolonging the start of my build.

Most threads I've seen mention the GE II is what they use but lately I've seen GE I being mentioned.
I've been using GE II to seal my tanks and never had a problem...yet I'm not adding fish either lol.
My petstore got in some Marineland 100% caulk tubes but they want like $12 a tube lol


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Most threads I've seen mention the GE II is what they use but lately I've seen GE I being mentioned.
> I've been using GE II to seal my tanks and never had a problem...yet I'm not adding fish either lol.
> My petstore got in some Marineland 100% caulk tubes but they want like $12 a tube lol


 
There is actually a fair bit of controversy over GE II as it contains organotins as catalysts and these can be toxic, teratogenic, and endocrine disruptors and may leach into the tanks (as organotins are mobile from a number of insoluble sources including PVC). 

There are several long threads on this topic if you search for it... 

Ed


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Ed said:


> There is actually a fair bit of controversy over GE II as it contains organotins as catalysts and these can be toxic, teratogenic, and endocrine disruptors and may leach into the tanks (as organotins are mobile from a number of insoluble sources including PVC).
> 
> There are several long threads on this topic if you search for it...
> 
> Ed


I don't understand any of this except can be toxic 
Thanks for the info but it doesn't help if I can't understand it lol
Can ya dumb it up a bit for me?


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I don't understand any of this except can be toxic
> Thanks for the info but it doesn't help if I can't understand it lol
> Can ya dumb it up a bit for me?


It may be bad...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> It may be bad...


I was saying that's all I could understand but all those chemical names and whatnot just confused me....
He was saying all that I could so we could better understand when really I'm just like  wtf does all that mean haha 

I wish I was as smart as you Ed


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I don't understand any of this except can be toxic
> Thanks for the info but it doesn't help if I can't understand it lol
> Can ya dumb it up a bit for me?


A good place to start would be googling the words you didn't get. Then at least you'd have a rough idea what it means when something is teratogenic. I have to admit that that's the one that threw me for a loop. Don't remember ever coming across that word...  

But now I know.

Aren't things normally dumbed down, not up?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/35720-bio-seal.html


That link should help.


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## TheUnseenHand (Mar 8, 2011)

Anyone ever use DAP brand Silicone? I've read pages and pages on this "safe" silicone debate and haven't heard this stuff mentioned one way or the other. 

DAP Products - Caulks and Sealants - DAP® DYNAFLEX 230® Premium Indoor/Outdoor Sealant

MSDS sheet:

http://www.dap.com/docs/msds/10001.pdf

Anything jump out? It does say mildew resistant, but I can't find any silicone that doesn't say that. Even the GE1 says it's mildew resistant, though doesn't seem to have any additives. I can't find any colored GE1 and am a bit apprehensive about GE2...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If it smells like strong vinegar as it cures, then it shouldn't have organotins in it. The organotins catalyze a different polymerization reaction which doesn't produce acetic acid, instead they produce ammonia. 

Ed


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## TheUnseenHand (Mar 8, 2011)

Ed said:


> If it smells like strong vinegar as it cures, then it shouldn't have organotins in it. *The organotins catalyze a different polymerization reaction which doesn't produce acetic acid, instead they produce ammonia. *
> 
> Ed


Which is what GE2 does, correct? I believe when I read the label for the DAP product it mentioned that it gave off acetic acid fumes in the warnings section. So it should be good there. 

What about the fact that it says "mildew resistant"? I can't find any antimicrobial additives, so it should be ok correct?

Thanks for the info, BTW. It's much appreciated.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

They can advertise it as mildew resistent as silicone is not broken down by mildew.


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## TheUnseenHand (Mar 8, 2011)

Ed said:


> They can advertise it as mildew resistent as silicone is not broken down by mildew.


Thanks! I'll give the DAP stuff a shot.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I started buying aquarium grade. 

It takes ALL the guesswork out of it and makes me feel more comfortable.


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## TheUnseenHand (Mar 8, 2011)

frogfreak said:


> I started buying aquarium grade.
> 
> It takes ALL the guesswork out of it and makes me feel more comfortable.


Understandable. It's just hard for me to justify 12 to 14$ a tube for AGA silicone (which does not come in any colors) when I can get it for 3 to 4$ a tube of what is likely the exact same thing as the AGA.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There are sources from which you can purchase it much less expensively. Black aquarium sealent costs $8 here Glasscages.com - Aquarium Sealant


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## kylesmoney (Mar 29, 2010)

TheUnseenHand said:


> Understandable. It's just hard for me to justify 12 to 14$ a tube for AGA silicone (which does not come in any colors) when I can get it for 3 to 4$ a tube of what is likely the exact same thing as the AGA.


Where do you get it for $3-4 a tube, my HD doesn't seem to sell anything for less then $7 a tube!


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

kylesmoney said:


> Where do you get it for $3-4 a tube, my HD doesn't seem to sell anything for less then $7 a tube!


Are you sure you're looking in the right section? A quick look online and I immediately found this at my local HD for under 5.

GE Silicone Silicone I Window and Door 9.8 oz. Clear - GE012A 24C at The Home Depot


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

DAP 100% Silicone

This is the stuff I use from HomeDepot or Lowes. Its says it's safe for food. Thats pretty safe to me.


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## smk46 (Mar 12, 2011)

I am new to darts but have been into fish and reptiles for over 20 years and have used both the GE 1 and 2 to reseal and build tanks with no loss just make sure they are fully cured before adding anything


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