# can anyone tell me how to make this???



## wickerstone (Jan 19, 2009)

I really find this interesting. I hope they are not real stumps, because I really would feel stupid, but if they are I'll blame it on the head cold I have. Any way, I was wondering if anyone has done something like this? How could it be constructed? And what kind of paints are safe to use in a viv? Thanks so much!


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Go to Smooth-On - Mold Making and Casting Materials for a World of Applications!.

Spend at least 200 plus shipping on rtv silicone.

Find a model, make a silicone mold negative, make a mothermold and cast into your negative the casting medium.
Epoxy, resin, concrete, thickotropic plastics.... Lots of choices.

Then demold, if you can, if you did it right...

I've done all of this stated above, and for each single piece I've made with similar quality to those in the pictures, has run me at minimum $400, plus a LOT of time. Since I sell them, I can make the money back by multiple reproductions, but the first one is always the most expensive.

There are entire books on making things like that. Unless your really really into it, making cast pieces is something best left to the pro's or people (like me) to stubborn or bored to. Its anything but cheep, but you get some really cool stuff in the end.

Acrylic paints work well when fully cured.

Don't mean to be a downer, but its a massive undertaking to make what you had pictures of. I can be more specific but that will need to be saved for a pm.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

that sounds fun, can you recommend any books?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

http://www.bbrock.frognet.org/Making artificial trees and vines.pdf


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

One that I use and HIGHLY recommend to anybody looking to dabble in this:

"The Prop Builder's Molding and Casting Handbook"
Thurston James
1989

Goes into detail on many different methods of making the same thing. All the pro's/cons of each method and the different casting materials.

Yes you can make one out of foam/grout/epoxy.... but I find that unless your a sculptor or really lucky/good, they don't turn out looking 1:1 real. If thats what your looking for, foam aint going to do it. It just all depends on what your level of expectations for your tank is. But if your going to cover it all up with plants it really doesn't matter what its detail quality is anyways, so its a personal choice I guess. I go the hard way...


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## wickerstone (Jan 19, 2009)

Thanks for the info. It does seem like a lot of work, but if you can achieve that look it can be well worth it. Again, thanks. My gears are spinning with up coming projects.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

if i'm not mistaken that looks like one of steve b.'s (forgot how to spell his last name.) tree trunk. it should be made of epoxy. he got his epoxy from west systems epoxy or close to that name. the stuff is epoxy used for boats. and correct it was not too cheap to buy it. also it did take him a while to get to where he was with that trunk.
walt


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

VivariumWorks said:


> Since I sell them
> 
> .


Oh Really Care to elaborate

I have been getting UniversalHabitat stuff. I would love to see more items on the market for Vivariums


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

This is long, but hey, you asked....

I own a small business selling my viv's locally. I've been making the molds for about two years now. I'm waiting until I get my production techniques down better before I start selling them online, but with any luck that will be before the end of the year. Universal Habitat makes some great stuff. I've seen their work and have a couple of their pieces hanging in my garage as reminders of what my minimum reproduction quality should be. No point in making something to the same grade as what’s already out there. So far I think some of my stuff has surpassed theirs, I just don't have the ability to mass produce and I'm still working on cleaning up the reproductions so that they fit to the size specs each time. Also mine aren't anywhere near as flexible as theirs are so the whole cutting to size and bending into place, aint going to happen with my design. Big drawback, but I think I obtain a better level of rock detail. 
Here’s a few pictures of some of the stuff I've made so far using the mold techniques:










This cast piece was my first. Not to impressive since I made the original and I'm NOT a sculptor, but the waterfall flows exactly where I want it to each time and theirs an impression of my thumb in the center-piece plant pot, that comes out each time so the detail on the mold is really good. After starting with this, I moved to other designs:










This was my second. Fits into a 20 long. Designed it for cichlids, but have had more luck selling it with dried grasses growing out of the cracks for a desert herp scene... Gotta go with what people want I guess...

Then I made this one for a 10 gallon. This one I'm most happy with as it drops in perfectly. Got the edging right and the mothermold made right so the reproductions don't come out warped like the 20 did.


















I got a commission for a 40 breeder with bearded dragons and made this monster. Its hard to tell but the undercuts are deep. Total bitch to make. I've popped three out so far and swear I'll never do it again each time... The deep undercuts like to stick to the mold and requires a lot of material to make.



















Shows the Exoterra, Universal Habitats, and Vivarium Works detail. Each have their pros and cons. Big con, for my design is... not making me any $$. Oh well.


From there I've moved to making individual rocks and then piecing them together to make realistic looking but light rock walls.













Then while out in Hawaii last summer I brought with me a bunch of mold supplys and took some of banyan trees and rocks and all other kinds of cool tropical stuff.























The next step is to make a larger mold library with many individual rocks and tree stumps etc... and sell them online. I just don't have the time/funds right now to devote to this at the moment... but with any luck that will change before the weather gets to cold to cure anything on site...


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Dude..... That last pic is awesome. GREAT work on that... I hope someday you get profit off of 'em


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Freaking Fantastic

Let me know when I can throw some money your Way. seriously. Let me know how much you want for some of the stuff you have already.

I am definately interested in Stumps and brancnes.
Have you thought about casting streambed and Waterfalls.

Modular is definately a plus. My things is I really like stuff that can be arrange to any size tank not a tank that fits around a background

Any Chance you can have some ready for NARBC in Arlington I believe March 10th-11th-12th Time frame next year


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

I did sell some stuff at the NARBC about two years ago and it was great, I just havn't been able to make it back as a seller again. The tables are EXPENSIVE, plus the cost of driving and the cost of the hotel, bla bla bla. In any rate I'll have to have a lot of stuff to sell or hook up with someone to get half a table if I'm going to do that show again. I'll definetly be there as an attendent though, so if nothing else I'll bring a few things up for ya to see or any ordered pieces.

Waterfall and streambeds are something I've been thinking about but the issue with those are that if they are flowing, the mold material won't cure, even if damed off due to the moisture. But since south texas is having a major drought right now, thats not too big of an issue. The main thing with all of these is size. Making modular pieces will probably be the best way to go with this DIY crowd that way they can just embed the piece into their particular setup using the GS/silicone method that dominates the forum. 

The other option, which I'm still planning on, is hiring my old friend to make some designs that fit a particular size out of clay. He's a professional sculptor so when he makes something, it comes out 1:1 looking but came out of his head. Freakish how his brain/hands work. So thats next on the agenda too. It just all boils down the $$$ as everyone knows... sigh...


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Well I definate am setting aside money for stuff next year..

I can tell you that last year UniversalHabitat had no problem selling their stuff due to the demand.

People were buying out everything as quick as they got it there. I had people trying to take stuff out of my hand to buy what I was Holding while I was trying to buy it myself.. 

Heck I might just consider buying straight out of your car trunk in the parking Lot..cut out the "expoman"

I bet there are plenty of people who would meet you in the parking lot for exclusive rights.

Hahahaha..

If you need more Ideas just ask I am sure there are plenty who have a vision of what is needed in the Hobby..


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## MonkeyFrogMan28 (Feb 3, 2009)

I would meet in a parking lot if I lived near you. You should make a online buisness out of it and be a sponsor on here./


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Or better yet work out a deal with a current sponsor to carry your products!


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

UmbraSprite said:


> Or better yet work out a deal with a current sponsor to carry your products!


Not trying to be rude but 

NO

Adding more handlers of the products will just drive up the cost...Any Sponsor here willing to carry a product with 0% mark up?


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

If you think by saying "Not trying to be rude but " you can say anything with out being rude your wrong. That came off pretty rude. since your caps yelling no when, its not your decision to make.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Your right its not my decision to make...just recommending reasons why not to

I can give severasl reason more not to 

Since I have already mentioned UniversalHabitat products I will talk about my experience buying products before they sold Directly to the Public

I went to NARBC and was told Two Local shops carried the products...Neither Advertised..Nobody knew they carried the Products. I contacted both..Shop 1 carried the product but would not special order..One would order when They had large enough order, but what ever they wanted to order..3 months later they got two pieces in..I bought Both..
Up comes UniversalHabitat Website..I paid almost 100.00 more per piece, than what they sell for..End Result..Lack of ability to order pieces I want..Lack of the Ability to get pieces in a Timely manner..Resulted in No further Orders at either shops and I had just about given up on ever getting any more products.

If UniversalHabitat did not sell directly to the public their Sales would be down drastically because retailers will purchase only a few items, which will sit on a shelf collecting dust and the products will not move. I look for certain pieces and if I don't see what I like I won't buy and other's won't either


This Hobby has alot of DIY's and If they see something that is great looking but is way to high priced..they just say I can do that myself..or find a cheaper alternative

Retailers will want a Company that can deliver products...Nobody wants to carry a product on their website that say..Currently out of Stock..Customers get tired of shopping at places that have products out of stock

Since we are discussing reasons can you give an excuse why to use retailers instead of a personal website to sell directly?


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Sure,
He wouldn't have to deal with retail customers, less time processing/ packing= more time making (the fun part). I'm sure Chris can come up with more, but i agree with you.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

bussardnr said:


> Sure,
> He wouldn't have to deal with retail customers, less time processing/ packing= more time making (the fun part). I'm sure Chris can come up with more, but i agree with you.


Huh..... So your advocating selling exclusively to 1 retailer?
Or just limiting it to say 2, 5 or 10? 
Unless the retailer wants 1 monthly shipment..he would still be required to process/package/ship each shipment to the retailer as he would to a direct customer.

Let say the Retailer make 5 orders that 5 shipments proceeded and shipped same as 5 direct customers


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

The biggest advantage of going through retailers would be the ability to ship out multiple quantities with each shipment as opposed to an individual just buying a single piece. At our shop we order from the company you mentioned earlier and we usually buy 6 or so pieces with each order. When shipping straight to the customer it would typically require packing and shipping 6 different orders to move that same amount of product.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

jubjub47 said:


> The biggest advantage of going through retailers would be the ability to ship out multiple quantities with each shipment as opposed to an individual just buying a single piece. At our shop we order from the company you mentioned earlier and we usually buy 6 or so pieces with each order. When shipping straight to the customer it would typically require packing and shipping 6 different orders to move that same amount of product.


Which shop do you work for and does it have a retail location..as long as the cost is close I wouldn't mind walking in and walking out with pieces that draw my attention..

If you don't wanna post it please PM me information. I can get down to DFW in a few hours and I can make a day out of it to make it worth wild


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Our shop is Dallas North Aquarium. I'm not sure what pieces we have right now though. I can check for you and let you know.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

jubjub47 said:


> Our shop is Dallas North Aquarium. I'm not sure what pieces we have right now though. I can check for you and let you know.


Sent you a PM

If you don't mind PM what you have in stock and send some prices also so I can Compare


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

OMG The last time I was in Dallas I stopped at DNA. Freaking AMAIZING store!!! Top notch in everyway. Just too far out for me to frequent. Best saltwater store I've ever been to. Period.

As for selling to distributors vs the public... I wouldn't get into an argument over it. Its really not that big of a deal to me. The point is, once I have something WORTH selling, I will. If the stores want to carry them at my price+%markup for local guys, then great. Or if people want to get these things from me directly, then great too. The thing is, I'm too damn small to worry about this at the moment, and quite frankly, don't have my @#%$ together to put out a good enough product. YET. 

So I'll cross that bridge when I get there, if I get there. Until then, I'm just making stuff for the local San Antonio herp community and myself.

And yes I agree, the stuff sold fast at the NARBC show. They didn't have any for sale on Sunday when I got there. Which is why I'm thinking about doing a table but I have to make sure that it will be worth my while financially. As of right now, the out of the car thing fits best. Black market parking lot deals on Viv backgrounds!! LOL.


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## cheezus_2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

i REALLY WANT one  lemme know the prices....


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

wickerstone said:


>


Pretty sure the tree stump in this photo was made by Steven Bonheim, he would make a latex mold from a tree and then do the rest with epoxy resin and paints.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...-stump-tank-what-good-wood-use.html#post32257

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/7378-artificial-tree-buttresses.html#post60672


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

I use a similiar method with high quality silicone rtv and a specially formulated epoxy. I've got a minor in chem and developed a technique that so far doesn't require any use of paints. All of the pieces were made without the need of any post demolding painting.

Latex is way cheaper, but you get a very limited reproduction run. In theory, if I keep my temper when demolding the casts, they shouldn't tear and last for many future reproductions.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

VivariumWorks said:


> don't have my @#%$ together to put out a good enough product. YET


Don't sell yourself short, I have seen nothing as good as what you have shown us so far, people are already standing in line to get anything from you. Shoot I would drive to San An to get even a chance to look at them in person.



VivariumWorks said:


> As of right now, the out of the car thing fits best. Black market parking lot deals on Viv backgrounds!! LOL.


Hope you have a pick up, because I do and I expect to fill it up with your stuff, might not ebem go inside and see what else is there


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

> that so far doesn't require any use of paints. All of the pieces were made without the need of any post demolding painting.


Care to share? The color is the most intimidating part for these for me.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

I think I am going to just stay out of it.


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## Cyber Dendro (Jun 5, 2013)

I was searching how to make fake rocks and logs when I found this. may some one of you give any link where teach step by step how to do it or have you learnt yet??? THANKS to every body to share this.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

I made those a few years back. Still working on the DIY home version. Getting closer everyday.


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