# Q&A Tesoros de Colombia



## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Hello all,

I recognize the need for an open form of communication between Tesoros de Colombia and the general public. They have limited time to respond to emails, have their hands full with the business at hand and English is not their first language, so an active forum presence is unlikely. I am sure that there are good questions floating around out there unanswered. 
I would like to try to bridge the gap with this thread.

First I would like to present the video of Ivan Lozano’s talk from the SACAS meeting in Costa Rica. If you have yet to watch this, I encourage you to do so. This is how I first became excited about and involved with this project and learned what is going on and just how much work has been done to get to this point.
Ivan's SACAS Talk
I apologize for the quality of the audio. It is best to watch this in a quiet place with no distractions.

*Please feel free to post any and all questions that are pertinent to Tesoros de Colombia.*
Please realize that this will likely be a very slow process and all questions may not get answers.

*Please feel free to post answers to other people’s questions, but only do so using facts.* 
Be prepared to cite your source. I do not want this to become a rumor mill filled with “I think…” “They should…” and “Maybe…”. I will ask that these types of posts be removed.

Thank you,
Chris Sherman


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

I'll get the ball rolling! Does Teseros plan to work with any other high-risk Colombian herps? Or will Teseros be restricted to butterfly's and Dendrobatids? 

D


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Is Tesoros aware that there is an organization in Colombia breeding giant beetles to support the Japanese hobby? I wonder if theres anything that can be larned from them as far as the trials of international shipping etc that could be applied to their business practices to make them go more smoothly


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Dendroguy said:


> I'll get the ball rolling! Does Teseros plan to work with any other high-risk Colombian herps? Or will Teseros be restricted to butterfly's and Dendrobatids?
> 
> D


Thanks!
Would you explain high-risk Colombian herps a bit further? Some specific examples perhaps.


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

frogparty said:


> Is Tesoros aware that there is an organization in Colombia breeding giant beetles to support the Japanese hobby? I wonder if theres anything that can be larned from them as far as the trials of international shipping etc that could be applied to their business practices to make them go more smoothly


Does this company have a name or a website? Where are they located?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Let me pull the info..... Found them via the mantis forum


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Sherman said:


> Thanks!
> Would you explain high-risk Colombian herps a bit further? Some specific examples perhaps.


Atelopus and Glass frogs in particular. 

D


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

The guys name is Viasus- article on him in the May 21 2008 LA Times

The company is Terra Viva

Looks like they've had problems with USA customs too, but do ship to canada....


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

You know I find it quite interesting that none of the people who have complained about Tesoros lack of transparency/information have not asked a single question in this thread?

I actually find the general lack of questions alarming.

Anyway, since I'm baffled that nobody has asked yet:

Without jeopardizing the safety of native frog populations, can you provide location information for your founding stock?


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I think most feel the way I do, I would like to see several pictures of each species or morph (mostly just because I like photos of frogs), I realize most are going to look similar with nuances of slight difference and perhaps some locality name which corresponds with a near geographic reference (city, river or whatever). Outside of those 2 things I would be hard pressed to question anything regarding ethicacy, after all if you are getting legal CITES documents to export from Colombia who am I to question.
I am sure some would question husbandry techniques, let those folks fire away but I for one will keep stuff the way I keep it.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

markpulawski said:


> I think most feel the way I do, I would like to see several pictures of each species or morph (mostly just because I like photos of frogs), I realize most are going to look similar with nuances of slight difference and perhaps some locality name which corresponds with a near geographic reference (city, river or whatever). Outside of those 2 things I would be hard pressed to question anything regarding ethicacy, after all if you are getting legal CITES documents to export from Colombia who am I to question.
> I am sure some would question husbandry techniques, let those folks fire away but I for one will keep stuff the way I keep it.


I too would like to see more pictures. If there is a range of coloration, I'd like to see that better represented. I'd also LOVE to see some pictures of Prime habitat for these frogs. Pictures of the actual collection sites would be fantastic as long as it didn't give anything away to smugglers.

I actually think some basic husbandry questions might be good for us to know what Tesoros is doing. What is working for them, temps, supplements, enclosure size, etc etc etc. this could all be very useful. For example, I have heard suggested that over time we have artificially selected for frogs that prefer cooler temps, especially with P. terribilis. In part due to a past dogmatic approach to temperature and humidity . I wonder what temperature Tesoros' frogs do well at. Do they have any foot/nose rub issues that some people seem to have had with these frogs in the past? If so how did they solve it?

And *ESPECIALLY* as these new obligates start coming in, what their husbandry protocols are will be invaluable to us.

I guess what I'm saying is not questioning if they're doing it right, but understanding what works for them. I also know what works for me, and tend to stick to it, but I'm always seeking new ideas. Of course I'm not as long in the tooth as some so I don't know everything yet.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> And *ESPECIALLY* as these new obligates start coming in, what their husbandry protocols are will be invaluable to us.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is not questioning if they're doing it right, but understanding what works for them. I also know what works for me, and tend to stick to it, but I'm always seeking new ideas. Of course I'm not as long in the tooth as some so I don't know everything yet.


Ditto on that one.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

With the debate on a few threads about substrate for terribilis I would like to know what they use as substrate for their frogs.


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## Phyllobates (Dec 12, 2008)

Dane said:


> Ditto on that one.


I was going to ask "what husbandry techniques can we employ to ensure long term success with these larger obligates?'' but was beaten to the punch.

In other words, double ditto


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd like to know the species eggs used to feed the obligate tabs and the exact method involved. There has been alot of debate on this subject which seems to work for them.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

scoy said:


> I'd like to know the species eggs used to feed the obligate tabs and the exact method involved. There has been alot of debate on this subject which seems to work for them.


I was under the impression that they were parent fed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I think the confusion comes from seeing Lehmannii tads in containers, not in bromeliads. I could see how people would think they were being artificially raised.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

That and there outside any viv.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

True! It would be very interesting to know what they're doing to gain success


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

scoy said:


> That and there outside any viv.


Have we seen any where the "Tad" didn't already have front legs? Ones that we know for a fact are lehmani tads? Could simply be that the froglet at this point was removed from the parent viv? 

So yeah, how about that Sherman/Tesoros?

Are the lehmani tads being parent raised?

If not, how are you feeding/raising them?

Are tads being pulled at some point in development or are they allowed to morph out in parent vivs?


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm by no means a mod, but we should keep this in mind.


> Please feel free to post answers to other people’s questions, but only do so using facts.
> Be prepared to cite your source. I do not want this to become a rumor mill filled with “I think…” “They should…” and “Maybe…”. I will ask that these types of posts be removed.


D


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I too would like to see pictures. Not just of future species to be offered, but ESPECIALLY their setups, tanks, methods, facilities, etc. I am really not interested in ANYTHING currently availble in the marketplace, only new species, or species in so few hands that they are for all intent and purpose unavialable. I understand they have limited time and/or finances to update their website, so maybe they could take pictures and send the file to someone here who could post them on their behalf??


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Hello all,
There are a few good questions starting to show up here.
Remember, this will be a slow process, and I will continue to try to get answers and post them when I get them.
Also remember that this thread is for questions and verifiable answers. I have asked that some posts be removed already. I do not want to dissuade conversation, only keep this thread concise.

I have an email out to Ivan. When he responds, I will post and send him the next round of questions.
Thank you,
Chris


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Chris,a very simple question for me,you have the more complex stuff,but one raised here,what filial are these Teseros frogs,are they all F2?

Keep pushing bro,

best always

Stu


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

stu&shaz said:


> Chris,a very simple question for me,you have the more complex stuff,but one raised here,what filial are these Teseros frogs,are they all F2?
> 
> Keep pushing bro,
> 
> ...


That question was asked in another thread. The terribilis are all F2 from what I understand. Maybe somebody else can confirm this for the others as well. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/1659306-post162.html


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

The Blackfoot Phyllobates terribilis from Tesoros are all F2. They are offspring of the offspring of wild caught individuals.


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## yerbamate (Nov 3, 2013)

Chris,

Hi. I am new to Dendroboard, but I speak and teach Spanish, have zoology degree, lived in Latin America for a few years (Peace Corps), did captive conservation work, etc. I saw that you mentioned a language barrier between Tesoros de Colombia and folks on DB. If anyone needs assistance on translations I am willing to help out, assuming we're not talking about large documents. Just let me know.

Jeff Gerencser


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

What are their plans for future andinobates and ranitomeya species? 

I'm not sure if they are willing to disclose much imformation on these projects, but I would certainly like to know when the decide to! I know people can't wait for some amazing obligates, but thumbs are where my heart lies...


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I would like to know the location of the frogs and would like to know why the location data was not used in the name instead of color based descriptions.

Also based on pictures I have seen I would like to know why the apparent breeding conditions are being chosen. It seems the frogs are bred in vivariums very similar to what anyone would use in the USA. Full misting, etc.... It seems to me the advantage of living in a climate that they would do fine in, is lost and thus the cost increased. I expected something more like a shrimp or beta farm / breeding program in a tropical country. Even outside of that you can breed frogs in cheap plastic containers.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

FroggyKnight said:


> What are their plans for future andinobates and ranitomeya species?
> 
> I'm not sure if they are willing to disclose much imformation on these projects, but I would certainly like to know when the decide to! I know people can't wait for some amazing obligates, but thumbs are where my heart lies...


Oh, and could people PM me on their possible expectations for these frogs. I don't want them posted here as I want to keep this thread clean. 

I have a very limited knowledge of colombian species and I am excited to hear your thoughts


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Pubfiction said:


> I would like to know the location of the frogs and would like to know why the location data was not used in the name instead of color based descriptions.
> 
> Also based on pictures I have seen I would like to know why the apparent breeding conditions are being chosen. It seems the frogs are bred in vivariums very similar to what anyone would use in the USA. Full misting, etc.... It seems to me the advantage of living in a climate that they would do fine in, is lost and thus the cost increased. I expected something more like a shrimp or beta farm / breeding program in a tropical country. Even outside of that you can breed frogs in cheap plastic containers.


Coming from someone who breeds many of the Appalachians salamanders for the European hobby and soon the US; parasites, predators, diseases. The frogs are in an open air habitat, but are still in a building and in vivariums. Look back to the pumilio farm in Panama, think of how many come in with parasites and diseases, now look at the enclosures, most are outside. Furthermore, at least with my breeding facility RO water for misting is pennies on the dollar, less than a dollar per 10 gallons so I couldn't see how that would make a noticeable price difference. 

D


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Jeremy,John,thanks guys,yup I was aware of the blackfoot,being F2. I was questing for the others really. We were pondering how difficult lehmanii might be compared to say histrionica,part of that conversation lead to what generation the Teseros large oophaga might actually be. That said I still appreciate the help!!

Damn Froggyknight beat me to Ranitomeya and Andinobates

best

Stu


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

What do you feed your frogs in captivity?
We feed them crickets, fruit flies and springtails bred for them, also some ants will get inside the parents terrariums.

Do you use supplements? If so, what do you use?
Yes, we use Repashy Food supplements bought in the USA and imported.

What is your favorite frog?
I love the Oophaga lehmanni, not for aesthetic reasons, but because its heavy illegal traffic from Colombia in the 90's made me start thinking about starting this project as the only effective way to save this species.

Do you have any plans to work with atelopus or glass frogs?
Yes, we have discussed bringing in some Atelopus species and Centrolenids but this costs a lot of money and time.

We are discussing here the possibility of start a community based ranching Project with a local authority that could bring more species in the market in less time. This depends on many legal aspects due to it being the first project with these characteristics in Colombia.

Some population and impact analysis are already finished with _Andinobates ophistomelas_.

There has been a lot of interest in the Oophaga.
How is the permit process going?
We have the research version of the permit (prior to commercial version) for both lehmanni and histriónica and have been working with some couples of each species, but we need to invest more money to have more results and parents in order to increase the parental population. As usual it all depends on money!

Would you be able to export different morphs under the same permit?
Yes.

Do you have different morphs?
Yes, three of each species.


All the best,
Ivan


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

scoy said:


> I'd like to know the species eggs used to feed the obligate tabs and the exact method involved. There has been alot of debate on this subject which seems to work for them.


I understand if this is something he would like to keep secret. If youve followed the other thread you'll see I didnt make this up.


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

scoy said:


> I understand if this is something he would like to keep secret. If youve followed the other thread you'll see I didnt make this up.


This round of questions predated the care of obligates requests. I will continue the dialog and post the answers as they slowly come in. There may be questions that do not get answers, but as of now this question has not been posed to them.
Thank you for your patience,
Chris


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## frogandtoad (Apr 24, 2009)

What color morphs of O. Histrionica is Ivan currently working with?
Will he add more as time goes on?


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

frogandtoad said:


> What color morphs of O. Histrionica is Ivan currently working with?
> Will he add more as time goes on?


Could we please just round this up to what 3 morphs of both Histrionica and Lemanii.

Maybe previously covered,but what fundamental differences is Ivan seeing in captivity regarding the two species,if any?

Too exciting for words

thanks Chris

Stu


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

just a tiny itty bitty bump


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Sherman said:


> .
> 
> Some population and impact analysis are already finished with _Andinobates ophistomelas_.
> 
> [/I]


That is a frog I'd be interested in... If I could afford it.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Dendro Dave said:


> That is a frog I'd be interested in... If I could afford it.


Likewise....


Are there any _ranitomeya_ currently breeding in Tesoros facilities? Or are they currently housing _phyllobates_, _dendrobates_ and _oophaga_ only?

Thanks for helping Chris. 

John


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Hello,

I have once again asked that some posts be removed from this thread. I appologize to the people whose posts have been removed. I have set up another thread to encourage the type of conversation that I would like to limit here.

Tesoros Q&A Discussion 

Thank you for your participation and understanding,
Chris Sherman


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Sherman said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have once again asked that some posts be removed from this thread. I appologize to the people whose posts have been removed. I have set up another thread to encourage the type of conversation that I would like to limit here.
> 
> ...


That link didn't work for me. In the future could posts be moved to that thread rather then deleted? I didn't realize we weren't supposed to make comments in this thread. 

Let's see if this link to that thread works...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/150410-tesoros-q-discussion.html


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

How often is Tesoros planning on making shipments in the future? Would it be reasonable to assume one or two a year once all permits are in order for the obligates?

Would love to hear their response.

John


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

1.) Will there be any collection data available for any of the frogs produced at Tesoros de Colombia? (i.e. GPS data, nearby towns, geographic clues such as rivers, mountains.)

One of our principal objectives is to prevent illegal traffic of frogs. Since the beginning we agreed to never give the locations of where our frogs originate. Perhaps only to the scale of national Department like Valle, Choco or Cundinamarca.

2.) Would you briefly describe your enclosures for us. (Size, substrate, plants, number of animals per enclosure, etc.)

We have different terrarium sizes from w50-d60-h60cm being the smallest. The substrates and plants are always natural and collected and cleaned from our reserve. We normally keep two to three frogs in each terrarium.

3.) Why do you keep your frogs inside? Why not take advantage of your location and build outdoor pens?

We feel we have better control over each individual in our terrariums. We also think that the authorities wouldn’t allow the use of outdoor pens. Some species are endemic to other parts of Colombia and we wouldn’t want to risk affecting our local, protected wildlife.
We take advantage of our location using the local photoperiod, sunlight temperature and humidity.

4.) Are there any seasonal changes where you are? Temperature, Daylight, Humidity? If so, what are they and how much do they vary?

Photoperiod are constant 12 hours yearly, temperature between 16 and 30 °C, humidity between 60 and 90%, we have two dry and two rainy seasons through the year and we are prepared to deal with all this variations. 

5.) The P. terribilis that have been exported are all F2. Will all of your frogs be F2, or will some be F1?

Currently all are F2 or F3 in the case of D. truncatus some are F1.

6.) Do you allow your obligates to rear their offspring or do you pull the tadpoles and feed them with donor eggs? If so, what eggs do you use?

We feed tadpoles only with their mother’s eggs.


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

Chris, have there been any new updates on this project? I haven't heard much in the way of recent information from them and also wanted to give this a bump, so it doesn't slip our minds.


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Spaff said:


> Chris, have there been any new updates on this project? I haven't heard much in the way of recent information from them and also wanted to give this a bump, so it doesn't slip our minds.


Hello everyone,
I am sorry about the lack of updates lately. We have been busy finishing up the Indiegogo campaign. (Thanks everybody!!) The shirts and glasses should be shipped out very soon. The bank held up some of the money in Colombia so we had to iron that out last week. I think we are just about done, so we can on getting back to the information and photos.
I will resume this conversation with Ivan soon. There are many things I would like to know also.
I am expecting to get my orange-footed terribilis in March. I will certainly post photos when they arrive. Keep the questions coming though. I will email Ivan this week.
Be back soon,
Chris


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Is there an ETA when/IF they'll rerun the indiegogo ...I have a job now, so I can afford to donate a little more.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Is there an idea of a date or timeline of another import to the U.S.?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## oophagraal (Jan 2, 2014)

Yes, a planning or an estimated calendar would be nice, exemple :
March 2014 : lehmani permit should be ok
May 2014 : first export of lehmani


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## lincolnerickson (Oct 7, 2011)

*Rewards Shipped*

Hey everybody

First, thank you all for your support. 

I just got all of the rewards shipped out. I will be e-mailing tracking numbers today. Most everything was shipped priority mail so I would expect most things to arrive in 3 days.

If you have any problems with your order, PM me here or even better e-mail me [email protected]

I spoke briefly with Chris over the phone and we both agreed that periodic updates on Tesoros would be useful to everybody. Not sure what that really means yet but we have plans to stay in close contact with Ivan. 

Over the next week I will be putting together a summary of our thoughts on the campaign. A what worked / what didn't sort of thing. 

Thanks


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Hello everyone,

I heard from Ivan today as well as received my pint glass from Lincoln.


Cheers! Drink responsibly.

Ivan has had some issues with the CITES authority lately. They made a mistake that held him up, but the issue has been straightened out. Unfortunately the time lost has caused Ivan to lose more money.

He answered some questions for us. Keep them coming. I will send out another round shortly. 

1.) What does SAS stand for?

SAS is the kind of registration, it stands for Simplified Anonymous Society

2.) People are still interested in making donations. Is there a PayPal account that people can use to donate directly to Tesoros de Colombia?

Great!!
They can do it at TESOROS DE COLOMBIA SUSTAINABLE FARM SAS’s Paypal account (it's a company account) the email address associated with the Paypal account is: [email protected]

3.) The public feels that the _Oophaga_ and _Andinobates_ will sell much better than your current offerings. Has there been any progress toward getting new permits?

Not much, the authorities have the application but they are still working on older permits that were given with mistakes so the lawyers have stopped the new permits. They say in a few months they will solve everything and hopefully we will get the permit to export_ O. lehmanni _and _O. histriónica_ and _P. bicolor_.

4.) Are there any exports of your current species scheduled for the near future?

Yes, to Canada, USA (through J-L Exotics) and Europe through Dendroworld France. Hopefully we will get the permit from the Dutch authorities soon (we applied in October) and we will get there as well.

5.) _ Dendrobates truncatus_:
a.) How large is the founding stock? How many were removed from the wild to support this project?

25 males and 25 females.

b.) What size enclosures are they being kept in?

45 cm wide x 50 cm tall x 60 cm long

c.) How many animals per enclosure?

Five

d.) What is the ratio of males to females?

2:3 M/F

e.) Will there be any types other than the Nilo available?

Only if there is enough interest we can try to bring the blue morph but here we can use a survey. 

f.) Could you supply a photo of one of the D. truncatus enclosures?



All the best,
Ivan


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

thanks for the info... 

I think enough time has elapsed that if you guys want to re-run the indiegogo campaign you can use the old one, just re-activate it.


As for blue truncs...

Others more attuned to the pulse of the dendroworld but it seems like, while a few years ago when these were rare, there was some demand... that now that demand has settled a bit. _*I could be wrong*_. New blood is always nice, but I don't know if the cost for permits would be justified by sales potential. You'r guy's thoughts?


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Dendro Dave said:


> thanks for the info...
> 
> I think enough time has elapsed that if you guys want to re-run the indiegogo campaign you can use the old one, just re-activate it.
> 
> ...


Please direct discussion to the thread below so we may keep this one for questions and answers only. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/150410-tesoros-q-discussion.html
Thank you,
Chris


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## Slengteng (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey,

Do you have any information when the Phyllobates bicolor will be exported to europe?

Regards Manuel!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Has there been any more headway with the exportation permits for the Oophaga species or Andinobates?

Thanks for everything Sherman, I would love to see more questions roll through here. This thread has died back for a while now and its time to change that 

John


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

What temps are the Lehmanii being kept at through the year? To elaborate I'm interested in what Andeas has said about how cool it can get where they live and how that could be best implemented in a captive environment

best

Stu


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

just wondering when the next shipment will coming in. think its in 2015. also what will be for sale.


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## Slengteng (Sep 16, 2014)

He guys,

i got an answer from Tesoros!
The bicolors will probably be ready beginning of 2015!

This is what i got!

Hello, as we have told all the people interested on those frogs, we hope to have it during the first months of 2015, please follow us on this fan page for news update.
https://www.facebook.com/tesorosdecolombia?fref=ts
Thank you for your message!


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

I can't wait for these frogs to become available. I'm glad a foundation like this exists, as this allows the hobby to further it's conservation efforts and keep these beautiful animals from going extinct. I'll definitely be making a donation.

As for my question...
I am also interested in some of the husbandry protocals, specifically the cooler temperatures that the obligates experience in the wild. What are the proper temperatures for species like lehmani and histrionica? And how can we achieve them?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Can the indiegogo be rerun now?


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

I was checking the forum and tesoro's Facebook site for any updates on permits or information if any regarding the Lehmanni. I did not come across any. Does anyone have any information? Anything? 
Thanks.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Currently the permit is close to approval. Hopefully in the next month or two. But Tesoros still needs the support of the US hobby to continue to operate. If you would like to support Tesoros and help ensure more frogs will continue to become available into the future you can purchase some of the frogs that have already been made available for export. They really are some nice frogs at great prices. Sexed pairs of yellow truncatus and groups of near adult yellow aurotaenia are available now, as well as a few orange black-foot terribilis and even a handful of near adult and juvenile yellow auratus. Find more details on what's currently available here: JL-Exotics - Tesoros


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Since tesoros needs funds, can people begin making deposits/payments toward future imports?


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

oldlady25715 said:


> Since tesoros needs funds, can people begin making deposits/payments toward future imports?


Although everyone seems confident/hopeful for these permits, there is still no guarantee that it will happen. This would make any deposit or payment a risk. If the permits never materialize, then that amount would become a forfeited deposit or a donation.
Interesting thought.

Chris Sherman


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

I believe that there are people on this forum, who will be more then happy to make a deposit if it means that are going to be getting first shot at purchasing knowing that there's a chance the permits might not happen and their deposit will now be a donation. I'm Sure, there's a lot that has to be thought out before making something like this happen, if it's even possible. But I agree with you Sherman this is an interesting thought. I know my frog raffle idea, for getting funds wasn't great but this might be an alternative to getting Ivan some needed funds.


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