# Frogs as a possible business?



## Yeagermeyer (Jan 27, 2007)

First post, long time lurker.
I'm just kind of curious what kind of long term prospects there are to possibly suplementing my future retirement with any income from raising frogs? Right now I raise tropical fish and it covers my costs generally. A lot of times I can't give the fish I raise away, other times I have people waiting for them. 

My frogs are just starting to lay eggs and I was wondering if down the road what the prospect and trends are for them. I mean that while I raise fish [and coming up, frogs] for the enjoyment and challenge, I'd like to also possibly start a business with it also. Is there room and will there be room 5-10 years down the road for someone like me? Do you think that availlability will outpace demand? Fish are nobrainers for the most part. Anyone can set up a tank, throw in the fish, some food, and sit back. Darts are, obviously a much smaller niche with their needs. 

Is this a boom time for Darts, or is this just the norm?

Getting my frogs were for the challenge of something more difficult than fish and I find that I really enjoy them more than the fish now!


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## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

I dont know how long you have been keeping PDF's, but I do know that they have been semi popular for the past seven years that I have been keeping them. I think it's a great idea to have a frog shop. If I were you I would talk to the people who run Black Jungle to see what they say. I'm not sure if you could make lots of cash in the business, but I would think that you could at least break even. Which would be worth it if you really love it. Good luck to ya............Sara


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

This maybe of some interest to you:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19815

One of the interesting things with this hobby is that the popularity of things changes so often. So even if there is a slow point for a specific species it almost always returns.

Im not sure I would depend on the hobby financially but I do think there is plenty of money to be made as secondary income or etc...


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## rbrightstone (Apr 14, 2004)

I sell darts in my jewelry store in Indianapolis as a supplement, and to help pay for more frogs, but I can't say I make a profit from them. Again, though, I sell them mainly to be able to expand my collection. And I do like getting other people in to the hobby.


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey, well I am sure there are people out there that breed frogs for a living. I am starting to breed frogs for a little bit of extra cash, and I love to watch them and watch the tads and frogletts grow. I was even talking to a college student on here a week ago and he said that he has 6 pairs of frogs that he breeds and pays for renting his appt out of the money that he gets for selling his frogletts, which he said was about 600 dollars a month. So you can make money by breeding them but I think that you can burn yourself out and then you won't enjoy them.

Curtis


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

You also have to put up with customers.


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## lacerta (Aug 27, 2004)

Slaytonp says:


> You also have to put up with customers.


Amen to that. I thought it was just my own personality disorder, but when you have to deal with customers it just takes all the fun out of it. I do frogs as a hobby and want to continue enjoying it. I used to enjoy woodworking as a hobby. Couldn't get enough of it. Then I thought I could make money so started doing custom built-in cabinets, etc. It went from being fun to being a "one-man sweatshop". Sure I made money but it came with lots of headaches. Have since scaled back to where my woodworking pretty much pays for my tool addiction and my raw materials. 
Tried my hand at breeding/selling bearded dragons a few years ago when they were all the craze. After two years I finally had breeding pairs and produced several clutches. It took me forever to sell the babies because I was so picky about who I sold them too. Most of the first clutch went to family members and people I trusted who could really take care of them. Local pet store offered to buy everything I had but I couldn't bring myself to do it. 
But that is not to say it couldn't work for you. I know one particular frog breeder who pretty much covers all of the Carolinas and Georgia with almost no competition at the various reptile shows in my area. Everytime I see them they appear to be making a killing. They also sell bromeliads and other plants. When people see, for the first time, a well planted and lighted vivarium with dart frogs the urge to try a couple of frogs is irresistable. It's what got me hooked. I suggest you attend some of reptile expos in your area and see what type of competition you are going to have. These shows are the perfect venue for sales. I think running a "store" might be a lot of work and expensive overhead with many headaches. But raising frogs at home and hitting the road maybe once a month to sell at reptile shows can be fun and profitable. Just my unqualified opinion.
George


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Hit some petshops, take them under your wing and get them to sell ff`s and springs. These things all need to be tackled before darts reach there full potential.
You can`t expect to just sell darts and have people have to get their food shipped. I had to get someone else, who got me into darts and was out of work, to make ff`s for a local shop. She sells them at $8ea and can make $100/week here. I think she makes 8 and they get 2 for free. Some fish owners have even started buying them for fish. Before there is room for more dart breeders there is room for people getting flies and darts to local shops so more people can own them. If you set up 10gal w/ pothos or other disposable cutting s so the tanks can be sterilized or at least dried between occupants(all it takes is one frog w/ hookworm, lungworm, coccidia chytrid, etc. to go thru a pet store and someone who doesn`t wash their hands and youve got problems). For the time a pet shop has the darts you can set up a simple substrate(no drainage) and some leaves and cork and cuttings and a glass top for frogs and have a seperate nice display tank for sale w/ nothing in it. This is key for petshops that have so many amphibinas passing thru. Tell them never to touch clawed frog tanks and go to the darts. A care sheet and a simple quarentine procedure sheet for pet shops would be a good thing to have for hand outs. Keeping it simple, as to shows or semi local shops keeps you from having a business phone, advertising account and all the other hassles of selling to the public. Between advertising, the website, the time it takes to box, ship, make labels and prepare/cup everything up, time on the phone w/ customers, travel time to shows, gas, table costs, tolls, etc.etc. your better off getting local pet shops. Their still buying smuggled frogs/they`ll get them from somewhere. I don`t know any better hobby where you can save amphibians and get people more aware locally of what is going on.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainence outlines the problem of learning in institutions as stiffling the intellect by making a person learn about things in a structured oriented way. Something simple as liking motorcycles can lead to an understanding of the universe first by the person learning about the components of the bike(after riding has been taken to the higher level of learning they just want to know more about it). From there the dynamics, metalurgy, physics and math etc. all branch from that point. Allright maybe not exactly what it stated but that`s what i remember that i drew from it. point being, we have such a learning tool at our hands and we are not doing all we can to progress it. A few frogs WILL die in the process but the kid who grows up to save the world could be the result of our actions. By giving people the ability to learn about the interactions of life in such a complete system fit right into their room, what a gift. This is a reason why I started doing this in the first place. I was so awe struck w/ my first viv`s I quit drinking so much because I had something to do, all because of a local petshop. Kids need to experiment and kids need to learn on their own. I`m nothing but a big kid doing what Ive been doing since i was 6. Keeping animals in terrariums and learning about them. 
I can`t speak for nc to georgia as it`s out of my territory. :lol: New york and the NE already has enough. There are 6-7 on/off vendors at white plains, sometimes more. Hamburg usually has the same minus bj at times. 
this hobby grows quick. new imports all the time now, there`ll always be more than enough "morphs" to save and work w/. the hobby definately needs more breeders but breeders w/ strategy, not just producers. There are still a lot of niche`s to be filled in the hobby if people would focus on them. what you want to do is do it all for a small area. pesticide and fertilizer free potted plants, terra mix, ff`s, springs, woodlice and other things( homemade coco huts etc.) pitch it to the stores. tad care = fish products bought from the store, pumps for waterfalls, tanks, ff`s and insects, all thats involved in false bottoms. shoot have em get a case of great stuff to have on hand. ff`s for fish. 
hope this helps.


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

your posts are always good for someone new to breeding pdfs aaron
thanks


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey, how much do you guys normally sell FF cultures to stores for? I have heard 8 dollars, but how many cups for the 8 dollars? Same question with the spring tails. Do you sell your frogs to pet stores for like half of what the normal price is or what? Because I know most stores raise their prices 50% from what they get the items for.

Thanks, Curtis


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## shannnak (Dec 14, 2006)

Does anyone worry that selling to pet stores might result in your frogs being sold to people who just have a fleeting fancy for the frogs and won't take good, long term care of them? I wonder if I would always worry if my frogs got a good, responsible home. I suppose that is always the risk that breeding animals poses?


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

Yeah I probley will worry about that some, I know that the pet shop owner makes sure that the people that she sells to KNOWS everything that they have to do, but you always worry about the people that know what to do, but don't do it. I guess if you worry to much about it you wouldn't be able to sell them and get other people into PDF's. I guess it is a risk that we will have to take.

Curtis.


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

im thinking with the high prices the pet stores charge (like $75 for a leucomelas) not to many people buy them willy nilly but im sure it happens


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## shannnak (Dec 14, 2006)

It depends how much money people have. Personally, $75 for a frog doesn't mean that much for a lot of people. Most of the lawyers in my firm (myself included) drop that on dinner for one person.

What about some kind of program where breeders donate a small number of their frogs to either schools or people who demonstrate a long term desire and understanding of the frogs and the hobby? That would be a good way to expand the hobby and develop more people who are dedicated to the long term well-being of the frogs. 

I'm not saying that breeders shouldn't make money by selling their frogs. Not only is it a great outlet for people who are so devoted to the frogs that they are willing to make a living out of it, but it's also a much needed service to people who are in the hobby. I'm sure it's idealistic of me, but I just wish we lived in a world where people who care could protect all the frogs of the world!

<sniff>

Regards,
Shannan


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

As soon as I get some frogletts(only have one so far) from my proven trio of Lamasi's I would be glad to donate a few frogs to a school or a program to teach kids about frogs, and the enviroment they live in, I am sure kids would love seeing poison dart frogs and that would also get more kids into this hobby. (I wish I learned about poison dart frogs or any frogs for that matter when I was younger) 


Curtis.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I worry more about the wc that are doomed because they are shipped in terrible conditions and the resulting loss of people from the hobby because they think it`s something they did wrong. I worry more that we can do something about it and don`t. Pet shops are going to sell dart frogs and some are going to die. If hobbiests got care sheets out there and helped some pet shops along not as many frogs would die. It`s a big risk to get ff`s shipped in winter and quite expensive. If pet shops carried ff`s food would be readily available locally in emergencies. 
If you sell tincs at $20ea to a shop and they charge $60 and $10-$15 for auratus they can charge $30-40. Most shops want to triple for live animals.
you can drop off 6 cultures once a week and take the ones back that don`t sell to make cultures for the following week. 1 x a week you can make rounds to 3-4 pet shops once people get into buying them for fish and frogs and chameleons and such.


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## shannnak (Dec 14, 2006)

Educating pet stores is a really good idea!


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

If I didn't find this website right after I got my frogletts I probley would still have my one cobalt; And not want to get anymore because I thought they died because of something I did wrong.

The pet store owner here in the Sault(pronounced "sue") is pretty much game for any new or exotic type of animal, so she is excited to hear that in a little while I will sell her my froglett. I go there once or twice a week anyway so I could check up on him,(hopefully them) every time I go in. 

Another question that I have is, is culturing FF's for fish cheaper for pet stores then to feed their fish flakes, frozen shrimp, and frozen cubes? Or is it just something that is good for a treat for all of their fish?
I could even sell really cheap cultures( for their own use) as long as I make some money out of it.
Right now I have a albino corn snake and I have some mice to feed him with, all of my extra baby mice I get, I sell to the pet store for 50 cents each, which pays for all of my crickets that I need for my lizards and probley for the food for my degus also.


Curtis


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## Tim (Apr 22, 2007)

This vary well written post needs a bump for more of us to read


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

i certainly agree that we need to educate the pet stores. since i am not very experienced with baby froglets, i plan on selling my first few to the local pet store, and then consider starting to ship. although i see people at the pet store who are very educated and can help me out with any questions i have, there are a few customers that will go in and say " look at the baby blue frog! i want to get that!" and will probably end up keeping it in a fish bowl or somthing, only to continue buying more frogs after theirs die. i think it would be a good idea if some local pet stores would have almost like a test that the people would have to pass in order to buy the frogs. i think it would be a wonderful idea to donate some frogs to local schools so the kids can learn not just about the frogs, but learn that if they don't start recycling and tring to save the rainforest, these beautiful jewels will be gone forever. futhermore, this could spark some interest for more people to become dart frog enthusiats.


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

> (I wish I learned about poison dart frogs or any frogs for that matter when I was younger)


Don't you just love it when these "young'ins" say that!!!


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## a hill (Aug 4, 2007)

As for the question with fish food, the answer is probably yes it could be cheaper depending on what they feed. 

I personally make some money off my planted fish tanks but all I do is use it as Fish tank money which can come in handy. I also have been slowly making and developing a very high quality line of fish foods. I hope that maybe I can also develop some food for PDF tads and that type of thing.

Sometime you do get random people who are horrible. I sell some plants and stuff off and on and once I sent a $75 dollar order of aquatic moss to a guy, and like a week after he got it sent me a message saying it was all brown :lol: So I asked him for some pictures and stuff and he finally calmed down and never said anything else.. kinda wierd. 

You also get people who tell you your a scam artist :lol: I'm not sure if I still have the emails but one woman was trying to tell me my moss, which has been sent to a well known Briologist in Singapore for confirmation ID, wasn't really what it was and I was scamming the people who bought it. 

So if you do start selling this or that especially online watch out for the people who sometimes are so stupid they think they're right, and will argue with you forever.

-Andrew


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