# Vivarium Works 17 X 17



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

*Vivarium Works 17 X 17*

I am putting together another planting in a broad and shallow enclosure with the same dimensions (17 X 17 X 14) as my mossery terrarium...










I have the tank all built and I just need to make the false bottom assembly for it.

This terrarium will feature a set of dark grey, angular replica stones from Vivarium Works. The stones should be here with UPS tomorrow. I can't wait to see them.

I think I have an interesting concept for plant selection in mind and I'll explain more about it with pictures a little bit later.


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## jpg (Jan 3, 2009)

Cant wait to see how this turns out Devin . Where do you buy your glass from ?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks. I'll try to upload some photos as I put it together.

I got the glass from a local shop. We have a few glass shops in our area, but for some reason this place sells the pieces of plate at about 40% cheaper than all the rest.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got the replica stones today. They are perfect! Maybe I will have time to work on this thing tonight or otherwise tomorrow.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got this thing put together and planted last night. I might need to carefully excavate and move one of the rocks a little bit. Here is a quick list of the plants included:


_Huperzia lucidula_
_Asplenium platyneuron_
_Mitchella repens_
_Goodyera pubescens_
It might be too moist and humid for the spleenwort in there, but I'll see how it does.

The _Huperzia_ is interesting. Everything I have ever read has indicated that you can't transplant terrestrial clubmosses or grow them in terrariums, but when I transplanted these _lucidula_ I found they had grown many new roots into their pots. They also have new growth on top. I traded for these plants with a local public institution greenhouse where they are growing very well potted and here and there as volunteers. 

I might add a couple of _Taxodium mucronatum_ seedlings. If these grow maybe I can keep them short and growing more laterally with top pruning. 

When the plants settle in some more I will add a layer of leaf litter. We have plenty of fallen leaves here. 










(Wikimedia Public Domain image: File:Shining firmoss.jpg - Wikimedia Commons)


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## Umbra (Nov 29, 2013)

Clubmosses are one of my favorites! Any tips for transplanting them? There are a few lycopodium species around here I wouldn't mind trying out.


Sent from my RM-877_nam_canada_234 using Tapatalk


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Umbra said:


> Clubmosses are one of my favorites! Any tips for transplanting them? There are a few lycopodium species around here I wouldn't mind trying out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my RM-877_nam_canada_234 using Tapatalk


I'd say just try to get as much of the native soil around the roots as you can and then get it into a spot with good light, air circulation, good soil drainage and good water.

You should try some of the _H. lucidula_ if you can find it. It is probably the easiest terrestrial clubmoss to grow. I might have some extra later on for trade because mine is actively growing, but it will be a while.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Sorry these are just a couple quick placeholders for me...

Lamp Parts, Lighting Parts, Lamp Glass and Chandelier parts - Grand Brass Lamp Parts and Lighting Parts Super Store

https://www.etsy.com/listing/191569459/porcelain-keyless-edison-socket-with-18?ref=market

I have some new pictures of this setup. I just need to web format them and upload.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I formatted a few pictures. I spent some more time this afternoon moving stuff around some more.

Here is the arrangement of replica stones. The Vivarium Works stones are really perfect for this project. I added the perlite as a drainage layer _on top of the false bottom_. 










I drilled a few holes around the flat base of each stone and zip-tied to the egg crate false bottom. I knew that if a stone were upset a little bit then hunks of perlite would just get underneath to make the stone feature all wobbly and loose. And that would drive me nuts. 

It may not look like much, but I spent a good deal of time getting this composition. 










Here it is with about one inch of soil substrate on top of the drainage layer. I added some more perlite and Turface to ABG mix for extra sharp drainage.










I decided that the stone on the left side was buried too deep, so I carefully excavated it and then replaced it with a couple pieces of egg crate underneath to raise it 5/8". This shot shows the construction of the whole thing pretty well. The soil layer is about 1" thick.










Here it is after putting it all back together again. I planted a couple different species of moss along with the plants listed above as well as a couple _Taxodium mucronatum_ seedlings. With the exception of the _Taxodium_ cypresses everything is Wisconsin native. I wanted to add the cypresses to represent seedling firs or hemlock










"Dr. King's New Discovery", a little glass bottle I found at an antique store to represent the old trash you sometimes find out in the woods.










This thing will look a lot better when I add the leaf litter. I am going to just let the plants settle in and start to establish before I mess around with it much more. There are a lot of plants in there and I will probably remove a few of them as they spread.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Very, very cool. This is definitely going to be a beauty once it starts to grow in! 

John


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks man. I think it will look pretty cool with leaf litter. We have plenty of leaves around here. I have been collecting and drying fallen leaves of different colors so that I will have supply.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I added leaf litter tonight. This is two different species of oak, river birch and burning bush. It looks gaudy with these bright colors. The colors will soften in a few days.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's another quick picture. That _Goodyera_ orchid has a flower spike on it. I hope this plant will grow in there. It is the only one included that I haven't really tested in a terrarium.










This shows how I hung up the PAR30 lamp with a clamp light, steel cable and zip ties. I am rounding up hardware for another different solution more elegant than this.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

It looks great!! I agree that the leaves are too bright, but as you said, they will dull down with time. 

Good luck with the Goodyera, I have (very close to had) a G. hispida and it is slowly dyeing on me. They really hate standing water and honestly, I'm not sure what else! You might have better luck with that species than the one I tried and I hope it does well for you. Goodyera is probably one of the most stunning orchid genera out there 

John


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much! Have you looked into _Goodyera_ cultural requirements very much? I wonder about other tropical species that I might be able to use as stand ins for terrariums like this. Even if I keep it with favorable soil and other conditions I don't know how well this temperate species will do without seasonal changes.

I really need to research more small-growing terrestrial orchids that I can use for my setups. The common jewel orchids are easy to grow, but they get too big and coarse.


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## jpg (Jan 3, 2009)

Looks cool buddy . I really like the addition of the cork top bottle .


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much! I think it will look good when the plants grow up just a bit taller, but they are slow!

I have started a little collection of antique glass bottles. They are nice for this kind of thing.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

hydrophyte said:


> Thanks so much! Have you looked into _Goodyera_ cultural requirements very much? I wonder about other tropical species that I might be able to use as stand ins for terrariums like this. Even if I keep it with favorable soil and other conditions I don't know how well this temperate species will do without seasonal changes.
> 
> I really need to research more small-growing terrestrial orchids that I can use for my setups. The common jewel orchids are easy to grow, but they get too big and coarse.


No, I haven't researched their cultural requirement much, or at least as much as I should have. Its surprisingly hard to get solid information on these guys. Mine was an impulse buy at a reptile expo (ironically all my impulse buys there were plants...) and I didn't do very much research before hand. From what I've read, I believe many species require or at least appreciate a winter dormancy. For obvious reasons, this can be hard to accomplish in the average display viv and I think I'll see how mine fares without that resting period.

Most orchids are common for a reason and the rare ones can often cost a fortune and or have hard to meet cultural requirements. I'm not a fan of many of the readily available jewel orchids which kinda sucks for me. Honestly though, one of my favorites is Macodes petola, its somewhat common but a great little plant. It doesn't need a dormancy, is a stunner to visitors and can easily be kept in check by cutting. I don't know how well it would fit into this build (or any others you have planned) but mine is a survivor and has lived through everything I've thrown at it in the last few years.

John


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

FroggyKnight said:


> No, I haven't researched their cultural requirement much, or at least as much as I should have. Its surprisingly hard to get solid information on these guys. Mine was an impulse buy at a reptile expo (ironically all my impulse buys there were plants...) and I didn't do very much research before hand. From what I've read, I believe many species require or at least appreciate a winter dormancy. For obvious reasons, this can be hard to accomplish in the average display viv and I think I'll see how mine fares without that resting period.
> 
> Most orchids are common for a reason and the rare ones can often cost a fortune and or have hard to meet cultural requirements. I'm not a fan of many of the readily available jewel orchids which kinda sucks for me. Honestly though, one of my favorites is Macodes petola, its somewhat common but a great little plant. It doesn't need a dormancy, is a stunner to visitors and can easily be kept in check by cutting. I don't know how well it would fit into this build (or any others you have planned) but mine is a survivor and has lived through everything I've thrown at it in the last few years.
> 
> John


I'll have to do some more research. I could really use some small and short terrestrial orchids OK for terrarium culture. I am in the Facebook group about terrestrial orchids and I should ask there some more for ideas.

_Habenaria rhodocheila_ is one that I have seen around a few times and not expensive. It does have a dormancy cycle and I heard it is best to let it dry while dormant.










The gaudy bright colors in the leaves have already faded. I see lots of mold on the burning bush leaves. I need to get some springtails.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

If you find any small viv suitable terrestrial orchids, let me know. Your not the only one who is interested in that kind of thing 

The tank is still looking great by the way! Its only going to get better, too.

John


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## jpg (Jan 3, 2009)

I actually collect antique glass also , but nothing I would put into a vivarium !


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

FroggyKnight said:


> If you find any small viv suitable terrestrial orchids, let me know. Your not the only one who is interested in that kind of thing
> 
> The tank is still looking great by the way! Its only going to get better, too.
> 
> John


I also want to figure out some gesneriads that I can use as stand ins for small temperate flowering forbs. Many of the small woodland plants that grow here have tidy and geometric growth habits and white flowers. A while ago I got a _Primulina tamiana_ from Violet Barn and it fits the bill, although it hasn't flowered for me again. I wonder about trying some small species _Sinningia_. Can you think of any other gesneriads that might work like this?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have a quick update for this thing. I'm very happy with the result that I got. It looks really cool in the space where I have it. Almost all of the plants are growing very well.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

as far as needing a dormancy period...for Habenaria rhodocheila..could you not keep it in a netted pot and remove it from the viv for that period of time, and replace it with another plant for the same period of time??


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Judy S said:


> as far as needing a dormancy period...for Habenaria rhodocheila..could you not keep it in a netted pot and remove it from the viv for that period of time, and replace it with another plant for the same period of time??


You must be thinking of another setup. I don't have that plant in there.


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## Dale D (Apr 22, 2012)

Nice viv.
I like the glass bottle idea.
Reminds me of those vivs that were on here a while back with old rusty tin cans in them.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Judy S said:


> as far as needing a dormancy period...for Habenaria rhodocheila..could you not keep it in a netted pot and remove it from the viv for that period of time, and replace it with another plant for the same period of time??


Oh I see I did mention _Habenaria_ in a previous post above, but this enclosure is meant to be more like a temperate forest display. Almost all of the plants that I included are Wisconsin native. There is a _Goodyera pubescens_ planted in there. 

I would however like to figure out some more small tropical terrestrial orchids to use in this kind of setup.



Dale D said:


> Nice viv.
> I like the glass bottle idea.
> Reminds me of those vivs that were on here a while back with old rusty tin cans in them.


Thanks. I have been looking around more antique shops for features like that to use. I'd like to find some more very small bottles and ceramic things. I have run into a lot of neat old rusted antique tool, but I don't think it's a good idea to put pieces of metal in a planted enclosure. I should try to find some old artifacts in the woods. I have found old trash heaps in random places in the woods that had all kinds of odd old stuff in them.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have a start on another new 17 X 17 setup like this one, but this time I am using rounded replica stones. I just got the Vivarium Works, 10 Small Rock Set A (Vivarium Works Online Shop - Smooth Rock Sets). They look great! I am really impressed by the detail. 

I am going to use another clubmoss as the main plant mixed in with a few others. It is some kind of _Lycopodium_, but I haven't figured out the species yet. We have like seven or eight species here. Like the _H. lucidula_ I have had it going pretty well for months already in humid terrarium growout.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I haven't been back here in a while.

This thing is still doing real well. I am impressed with how the plants are growing. With the exception of the little Taxodium tree seedlings these plants are all Wisconsin-native, but they have adapted to terrarium conditions very well so far.




























The _Goodyera_ has tripled in size and it just keeps growing. If you look closely at the _Huperzia lucidula_ here you can see the little gemmae propagulaes at the tops of the shoots. Several of these have fallen down to the soil substrate and started growing as new little plants.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for the likes you guys!

I figured out a real slick way to light a small square setup like this. I used the PAR38 in combination with a porcelain socket + cord from Color Cord Company. These cloth-wrapped power cords are really well-made and 15' long, so the cord easily reaches up to the ceiling and back down to the wall outlet. I hung the cord right from the ceiling using this combination of a 1/4" rope thimble, carabiner, eye bolt and washers. This is a gypsum ceiling, so the eye bolt is secured with those spring-loaded toggle bolt wings.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm putting together another one of these. This one is in an enclosure 20X11X16. 










Siphon drain standpipe.










I wondered about using a set of Vivarium Works replica stones. They looked pretty nice in there, but I decided against it. A taller shape like this really needs to have larger stone features that reach up more.










Here it is partially planted. The main plant is _Lyopodium annotinum_, or something similar (I really need to learn to ID these clubmosses). This plant has a growth habit very different from _Huperzia lucidula_. These shoots grow straight up from a running rhizome (or rhizome-like structure, whatever it is). 










I used numerous toothpicks to hold the rhizomes in place. I have to add some more plants. It needs something for more vertical dimension.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's my idea for a feature to use in combination with the _Lycopodium_ in this latest setup...

Real Rabbit Disarticulated Skeleton | eBay

This is based on something I saw out in the woods.

I thought that the rectangular enclosure and a linear visual layout would look good with the _Lycopodium_ and its running growth habit. A whole disarticulated animal skeleton arranged in a natural-looking way would also compliment this idea.

I will try to add the leaf litter and get a couple more pictures this evening.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here it is with leaf litter. I added another plant to occupy more of the vertical space, _Bambusa multiplex_ 'Golden Goddess'. This bamboo grows to bush size, but you can keep it pretty short by cutting it back. I think I don't like it in there. I will probably remove the bamboo and plant several small redwood trees instead.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got a few quick pictures of this other setup in a 17 X 17 enclosure that uses the rounded Vivarium Works replica stone. I think this one will look cool when it grows in some more. The little conifer trees are coast redwoods and there is also a _Michelia figo_.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

I like the spotlighting effect. One of many pluses with using LEDs.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 22, 2013)

Looks great! I'm kind of expecting to see small sauropods running around the tank


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks you guys. I think this latest one will look good when it grows in a bit more. I am going to replace those eggs with some others slightly smaller. They are real blown eggs and I will seal them with clear Krlyon Fusion so that they will last longer in there.


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## 9darlingcalvi (Oct 11, 2014)

How is that tank, I want to do that in a 10 gallon, with those plants and some red backed salamanders.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

9darlingcalvi said:


> How is that tank, I want to do that in a 10 gallon, with those plants and some red backed salamanders.


I still have all these plants doing pretty well in there.

I don't have experience with them and I can't speak to the care requirements of red-backed salamanders, but if you want to keep these plants with any kinds of livestock I think you will have better luck with a larger enclosure. It might be hard to manage in a 10G.

The most important part of keeping these plants healthy is to set up the substrate right with a false bottom that you can drain (I use a siphon) and a couple inches of a good terrarium soil substrate. I recommend ABG mix with extra charcoal for good drainage.


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## 9darlingcalvi (Oct 11, 2014)

Oh, I heard sals don't like charcoal so..... Or I could do my custom 15 gallon corner tank


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

Your tanks are very nice. I was wondering about the false bottom and draining on the water. Do you think adding a air stone under the false bottom to bubble in the water would encourage plant growth . I keep thinking about how anaerobic the water becomes and root health .


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got some more pretty cool plants from Reeseville Ridge Nursery including a few mini evergreen groundcovers that might adapt to terrarium conditions. 

I'm taking pictures.


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## urbanjungle (Mar 19, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


> I'm putting together another one of these. This one is in an enclosure 20X11X16.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good where did you buy that white mesh? Link? Or what's it called?


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## Gastrotheca (Sep 4, 2020)

Hydrophyte, do you have an update on this? Sounds like a really cool build from what I can read! (The pictures don't work) 


Gastrotheca
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Crested Gecko 0.2.0


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