# Ranitomeya Tadpoles- Hormone limiting?



## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Didnt really find a good answer via search so I figured I'd start a thread...


Does anyone know if any of the Ranitomeya tadpoles exhibit hormone limiting? I know they are regarded as cannibalistic but I was thinking about setting up a system in a larger aquarium with plastic dividers to keep them from eating each other. 

I'm just trying to conserve space because I'm dealing with a tadpole overload right now (I know, not a bad problem to have). 

Also, if they dont give off the hormones like tinc species then it would be nice to be able to better control water quality in a larger container.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I ran some experiments on this using what used to be ventrimaculatus... I housed up to 5 tadpoles in various sized containers and was able to avoid cannibalism by keeping live blackworms in the containers but I then saw a significant difference between the first and last tadpole metamorphing. In some cases, there was between 30-45 days between each tadpole. 

Ed


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Just for clarification... you are saying you put:

5 tadpoles in container A that was X ounces
5 tadpoles in container B that was Y ounces
etc etc?

Do you think that the slower ones were as a result of competition for resources? or hormone limiting? 

What I am thinking of doing is setting up a situation where the tadpoles can't directly interact with each other (to prevent cannibalism) but share a common water basin.

Thanks,


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I ran them in various sized containers from about 1.5 cups to 3 gallons (less precise since I was using a ten gallon tank) and regardless of the water volume or sight barriers or biofilm, I got a staggered emergence. I kept food available all the time (live blackworms) and additionally fed them fish foods and they were able to graze on the aufwuchs and plant material and debris. In some of the trials, I used very well rooted pothos to help absorb wastes and improve water quality and in all cases saw a staggered emergence. All were housed on the same shelf to prevent temperature differences from playing a factor. Partial water changes were done the day after feeding flaked foods. The fact that they had access to food 24/7 and different amounts of space (along with sight barriers (in the ten gallon tank, I used large stones) reduces the chance that it is due to competition

Ed


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Cool... thanks a lot Ed... Looks like I'm gonna be making a rack to hold lots of individual cups.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

carola1155 said:


> Cool... thanks a lot Ed... Looks like I'm gonna be making a rack to hold lots of individual cups.


The thing I didn't get a chance to try was to see if carbon filtration would remove or change the impact.... Activated carbon should pull or significantly reduce hormone levels in the water. 

Ed


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Interesting... how often would you suggest I replace the activated carbon? (assuming the tank is otherwise very clean)


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

If you try this, use a high quality carbon. A low quality carbon could add phosphates and I remember reports of that causing problems with tads.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

any recommendations on brand? I was just figuring on grabbing whatever they had at petsmart...


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## nonliteral (Mar 26, 2012)

carola1155 said:


> any recommendations on brand? I was just figuring on grabbing whatever they had at petsmart...


In terms of quality, it's hard to beat Bulk Reef's Rox 0.8 carbon.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

carola1155 said:


> Interesting... how often would you suggest I replace the activated carbon? (assuming the tank is otherwise very clean)


Not entirely sure.. it would depend on several factors such as how quickly it become covered in biofilm or saturated with organics. 

The issue that Pumilo referenced is an issue that was discovered at several zoos that used tapwater that had phosphate added to it to reduce corrosion on pipes. The tapwater was then filtered with carbon to remove chlorine but leached phosphate which in turn resulted in spindly leg in tadpoles reared in the carbon filtered water due to extreme calcium metabolism imbalance. 

If your not using tap water and/or using high quality activated carbon then it shouldn't be an issue. If your using tap water contact the water company and find out if they add anything to the water and if so, what.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm on well water here... I've always just used those big recyclable jugs of spring water for tads though. I have a small collection and I never really had a lot of tads at one time so it was never a big deal.

My well water has a high iron content and we use a water softener with salt so I've always just kinda avoided using it for my frogs.

I have been considering getting an R/O system lately and popping it in on the well line before it hits the system... but either way I shouldn't have to worry too much about phosphates.


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