# Titebond instead of silicone for backgrounds



## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

I've run into a few members using Titebond to fix peat/coco/whatever to their backgrounds. I'm considering it, but I wish I had more information.

What's the difference between Titebond I, II, and III? Home Depot only appears to have I and II.

Any toxicity or longevity concerns?

I'm working on three 100g tanks right now, and silicone is getting _tedious_ and the fumes are making my eyes water. I'm getting desperate for an easier adhesive. Plus, much of my coco is still a little damp, which won't matter when using Titebond.

Gorilla Glue -- my old go-to favorite adhesive for this -- just isn't up to this enormous task. It's too viscous so valleys are getting too much adhesive and peaks aren't getting enough. I'm also finding myself touching up areas where it has expanded in unpredictable ways (probably because it was pooled in a valley and too thick). Silicone turned out to be easier to spread on larger areas, but only marginally.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I have been using type 3 for a while now it is food safe and waterproof. No complaints so far the oldest tank is a little over year.


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

I just spent a while peeling off silicone that didn't adhere as well as I thought it did. Definitely ditching it.

I found Titebond III at Lowes. Maybe I'll grab a gallon of it and try it out.

How well does it stick to unsanded Great Stuff? My backgrounds are big, so it's just another looong task sanding every little spot for silicone. With Gorilla Glue it doesn't matter -- it's almost the same stuff as GS so it _wants_ to stick to it rather than having to be coerced into it. If Titebond is similar that'd be a huge plus.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I have never sanded great stuff.. some of it gets cut to shape, but other stuff stays as is, and sometimes I do it straight to glass... all has been fine. The biggest issue I have had is not using enough titebond when I do the mixes (just the first couple batches I did), so now if anything I add in extra to make sure. Lowes is the cheapest place to buy it by the gallon, Home Depot is cheaper if you buy the small bottles... a gallon jug is def a better buy though for the money.

When I do it, I put whatever I am going to use in a bowl or bucket, wet it down just so that it is moist, and then start to mix in the glue. I keep adding glue until it is kind of like a thick pudding mixture and then put it on the backgrounds. I have done this mix with straight tree fern fiber, ABG mix and a few other custom blends and all have worked well. Usually it only needs a few days to dry as well which is way better than the week to ten days that it takes concrete binder.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions as you are doing it.


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

Wait, you mix your substrate _into_ the glue? I was just going to add a layer of glue and press the substrate into it. Maybe I should do a combination of both to get the most coverage on the first go.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Yea, I put it all in a bucket and mix it together and then put it on. I dont think putting down glue and pressing into it would give you very good coverage, it isnt thick like silicone, it is very similar to concrete binder IMO, just dries faster and seems to be a better cure per say once it is dry.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Titebond III is a true waterproof polymer, compared to other materials like the concrete bonder which is only water resistant. So once it fully dries out and hardens, it can withstand vivarium conditions, including waterfalls, permanently. Though as with any polymer matrix the more organic filler you add the less long term stable it will be as the organics can degrade leaving pockets. However, when using stuff like sphagnum peat moss this can take a while. Good chance the viv will have some roots to support the matrix by then anyways.

As for the material wanting to adhere to the GS foam, it does about the same as silicone I've found. It's not a urethane of any kind so it's not like gorilla glue, but it will adhere to it well enough for our purposes. 

Don't forget you can add in a few drops of food coloring or non-toxic latex paint to help color it brown before you add in your organic filler. 

Food safe?! This is new... where did you see that?

The main reason I no longer use this material on a constant basis is the cost and the long cure time it takes for "thick" areas to cure. But it's a MUCH better idea than using the concrete binder only because it fully resists hydrolysis compared the latex copolymers. At least for high humidity, waterfall, and dripwall uses anyways.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Sorry, indirect food safe. I just knew I had looked it up before when making cutting boards.

Titebond - Product


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

VivariumWorks said:


> As for the material wanting to adhere to the GS foam, it does about the same as silicone I've found. It's not a urethane of any kind so it's not like gorilla glue, but it will adhere to it well enough for our purposes.


Did you sand your GS or did you find it unnecessary? And did you mix the substrate into it and apply them both as therizman2 did? Or did you apply it to the GS and press the substrate into it?



> The main reason I no longer use this material on a constant basis is the cost and the long cure time it takes for "thick" areas to cure.


What do you use instead? I'm looking for anything I can apply to huge areas quickly and not worry about it coming off in places that are unsanded, especially if it'll accept damp substrate. It doesn't have to be Titebond. Even a Gorilla Glue thickener would solve most of my problems.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

No I didn't sand the GS foam. I typically don't sand or carve mine much when working with it as I've used it so much I've gotten really good with applying it.

I did mix the peat into the glue to make a sticky messy material that I slopped onto the foam.

I now use a custom material I formulate. (It will be for sale hopefully sometime in the next few months if everything falls into place.)


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I mix about 2 part titebond 3 to 1 part substrate. It should be real soupy and grayish in color depending what substrate you use. I then slop it over GS( I usually carve it) and then go back and add more substrate on top like you would with silicone. After a day or so I vacuum the excess off and let it dry for another day or so. Also the glue dries clear so it will look like wet substrate

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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

diggenem said:


> Also the glue dries clear so it will look like wet substrate


That was my last concern. I didn't want my background to look like it was encased in shiny epoxy or something. Great to know.

Thanks for the advice, guys. Off to Lowes.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Could Titebond III be used to seal (waterproof) concrete and/or GS waterfalls? Does it need to have some kind of filler?


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Wow, this is interesting!!..


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Is diethylene glycol monobutyl ether (DGBE) dangerous to PDFs? 

According to DOW, 



> Although some glycol ethers have been shown to cause adverse reproductive effects and birth defects in laboratory animals, DGBE does not show the same pattern of toxicity as these other glycol ethers.





> DGBE is practically non-toxic to aquatic organisms on an acute basis. It is readily biodegradable and does not bioaccumulate (build up in the food chain). DGBE moves to water when it is released because of its high solubility, low volatility and high soil mobility. It degrades rapidly in water. Because of these properties, DGBE poses a low risk to the environment.


What about prolonged exposure to DGBE?


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## desertFrogger (Mar 15, 2012)

Which would be better to glue cork bark panel to glass: aquarium silicone or Titebond III?


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

desertFrogger said:


> Which would be better to glue cork bark panel to glass: aquarium silicone or Titebond III?


Silicone would be better for virgin cork bark to glass.


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

Well, I won't know for a few days if I'm a convert, but it was very promising. I finished maybe five square feet in two hours, which is more than fast enough for me. Too bad it took half a gallon of glue to do it. I probably didn't make it soupy enough either; it was like mud or soggy cookie dough. I'm hoping that'll be sufficient. And I'm hoping it'll shrink up a little while it dries so I get some of my detail back.


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

carbonetc said:


> Well, I won't know for a few days if I'm a convert, but it was very promising. I finished maybe five square feet in two hours, which is more than fast enough for me. Too bad it took half a gallon of glue to do it. I probably didn't make it soupy enough either; it was like mud or soggy cookie dough. I'm hoping that'll be sufficient. And I'm hoping it'll shrink up a little while it dries so I get some of my detail back.


Looking forward to some pics and updates!


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

Just did another seven square feet in one night. A little section of last night's work crumbled off, and it was the part I did last when my mix was really starting to dry up. This is actually perfect, because now I know where the threshold is between effective and ineffective -- somewhere between mud and cookie dough. I went a little soupier this time and it was easier to apply.

Hopefully I'll have pics soon. Tank #1 should be hardscaped by Monday. This stuff totally saved my schedule on these things.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

if money isn't a huge deal, I'd absolutely recommend gorilla glue - i've used it on three vivariums so far, and the only hitch is that if it bubbles a bit as it dries because your peat/coco mixture was damp you need to be there to squish down the bubbles so it doesn't show. I think its durable, sticks well and is easy to apply.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

JPccusa said:


> Could Titebond III be used to seal (waterproof) concrete and/or GS waterfalls? Does it need to have some kind of filler?


Not to hijack but concrete does not need to be sealed to make it waterproof.

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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

diggenem said:


> Not to hijack but concrete does not need to be sealed to make it waterproof.
> 
> Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk


I think this is a bit ambiguous if I can nit pick for a minute. I don't think any concrete product (to my knowledge) is actually entirely waterproof. Most concrete is actually fairly porous which is why concrete counter tops need to be sealed or they'll stain the first time you spill anything.

That being said, it's ok that it's porous as long as it's cured and the materials used as a framework for the concrete are inert (like greatstuff) so it doesn't matter if a little moisture leaks through the concrete.

I'm not sure how this would affect concrete ponds/streams. The majority of the water would surely flow where the concrete directs it, but enough wicking through the concrete may saturate your substrate.

This is how I understand concrete products to work. I'm sure there's a high degree of variability on the porosity based on additives, fillers, etc.

Cue ViviariumWorks for a wonderfully detailed explanation of what exactly happens!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

The trouble with using Gorilla Glue (which is actually the same as Great Stuff minus the propellent...) is that it dries to a nasty color yellowish... Does the Titebond III take acrylic paints as part of a mixture...or does it dry clear??? Can you paint it and have the paint (acrylic) adhere???


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

parkanz2 said:


> I think this is a bit ambiguous if I can nit pick for a minute. I don't think any concrete product (to my knowledge) is actually entirely waterproof. Most concrete is actually fairly porous which is why concrete counter tops need to be sealed or they'll stain the first time you spill anything.
> 
> That being said, it's ok that it's porous as long as it's cured and the materials used as a framework for the concrete are inert (like greatstuff) so it doesn't matter if a little moisture leaks through the concrete.
> 
> ...


Well I will rephrase my statement, I don't think it's necessary to seal it. Most people usually seal it when they want to bypass the time it takes to cure and neutralize it. 

As far as coloring titebond I've never tried but I assume you can with pigments.

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## Totenkampf (Jun 25, 2012)

no update pics?


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

I just bought a gallon jug of Titebond II at Home Depot last week. They didn't have any Titebond III there. What's the difference? Am I gonna be okay using the Titebond II?


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

Hey There - Titebond II and III both out line that they are not to be used submersed or below the water line. But III advertises that is it waterproof... Personally I'd take it back and check out Lowes for III - I've had better luck finding it there then at my local HD store. That being said, I don't honesty know if there would be a problem using II. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in. I have used III submersed and below the waterline and its doing just fine and was a breeze to use instead of silicon...


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm not using it below the waterline, just to stick peat on the GS that's all.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I'm not using it below the waterline, just to stick peat on the GS that's all.


I've used it below the water line and it holds up well. Do remember that more organics lessens it's effectiveness. For a background it's better (IMO ) than silicone. Note that it shrinks when it dries so it will pull the foam away from the glass, but filling in the voids with silicone or more glue remedies that.

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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I just bought a gallon jug of Titebond II at Home Depot last week. They didn't have any Titebond III there. What's the difference? Am I gonna be okay using the Titebond II?



Hey Jon,

Your buddy Field helped me out when I was building my first. Around pages 7 & 8 is where he advised me... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/81687-6ft-150-gal-first-time-palu-build.html He suggested Titebond II and that's what I used. 

I'm happy with the Titebond II and it is holding up well, except for a couple spots around my water fall that has water constantly flowing across it. If I remember correctly, I think the Titebond II is water resistant and Titebond III is to be waterproof(but cost almost twice as much). I just used II again. I do like the idea of adding a few drops of food coloring to the glue to darken it up. I'll have to try that next time.

Thanks, Chris


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Hey Chris, yead it was Field who suggested that I used the Titebond II as well. I think given the price difference and the fact that to get the Titebond III I have to drive another 20 miles, I think I'm gonna stick with the Titebond II and give it a try. I'm sure if you let it cure properly it will be fine. I'm not using it underwater, just on the background of a viv. Yes it might be exposed to some hand misting, and moisture from a fogger, but not an automated misting system. I'm thinking it's gonna work out just fine.


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm interested in someone posting how it looks once dry. Let's see those pics!


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

I am getting ready to use Titebond III and peat moss to do my background, so I will post before and after drying pics in a bit. Hopefully what's left of the gallon I bought yesterday will be enough. Almost half of it spilled in the trunk of my car due to the cap not being on tight... sigh...  At least my husband didn't flip out on me and I'm still alive.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Here is a couple photos that I already had on photobucket that shows the BG a little. Any thinner areas that may be in the pics are from my lack of application. It was my first viv. 


































As always, I apologize for the low-quality cell phone pics.

Thanks, Chris


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

nice job on that first viv...am jealous...what size tank...plants??? air circulation? Details!!!


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Judy S said:


> nice job on that first viv...am jealous...what size tank...plants??? air circulation? Details!!!


Thanks Judy! Here is a couple links. (Being my first viv, I imagine I posted way too many times...lol)

The build thread... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/81687-6ft-150-gal-first-time-palu-build.html

An update a couple months later... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...150-gallons-12-leucs-6-ft-2-months-later.html

A plant list... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/86271-finally-my-plant-list.html

Hope this helps and isn't too repetitive.

Feel free to comment, criticize, or ask any questions on any of the threads. (I'll try not to hijack this one any further)

Thanks, Chris


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

I applied Titebond III tonight. It is A LOT easier to work with than silicone. Also, clean up was a cinch! Here's what it looked like when I was done applying it. Let's see how it ends up turning out. I'll post pics of that once it dries up completely, as well as the dry time.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Eiffel70 said:


> I applied Titebond III tonight. It is A LOT easier to work with than silicone. Also, clean up was a cinch! Here's what it looked like when I was done applying it. Let's see how it ends up turning out. I'll post pics of that once it dries up completely, as well as the dry time.


you can also press whatever substrate you use into it like the silicon/coco method, and then just vacuum off the the excess. It looks good though.

Here's a vert I'm working on using titebond II, peat and







Seachem Flourite


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

I took a look at the bottles today at work. We have the 1g jug of Titebond 3 for $22.98. 

The TB2 says on the bottle that it is "water resistant" and the TB3 says it is "waterproof". Both are listed as FDA indirect foodsafe for use with cutting boards and both say water clean up and non-toxic. 

I may try the TB3 with a couple verts, I've always used Gorilla glue but it dries so hard.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

JaredJ said:


> I took a look at the bottles today at work. We have the 1g jug of Titebond 3 for $22.98.
> 
> The TB2 says on the bottle that it is "water resistant" and the TB3 says it is "waterproof". Both are listed as FDA indirect foodsafe for use with cutting boards and both say water clean up and non-toxic.
> 
> I may try the TB3 with a couple verts, I've always used Gorilla glue but it dries so hard.


Last week I bought a gallon jug of Titebond 2 at HD for $17.97, so not really that much of a price difference. 
I'm still undecided if I'm gonna use the Titebond 2 or take it back and go get the Titebond 3.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

I'm curious as to the definition of resistant and proof. 

By definition water resistant - "designed to resist but not entirely prevent the penetration of water".

Waterproof - "1. Impervious to or unaffected by water. 2. Made of or coated or treated with rubber, plastic, or a sealing agent to prevent penetration by water.

I'll stick with the TB3 when I go to build some verts.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

From my limited experience on my first viv, then it is what we stated. Titebond II is water resistant and Titebond III is waterproof. 

I'm very happy with the results of II in my tank, except the couple spots near the waterfall where water is constantly running over it. In those few spots, then the water has started to show bare spots and the Great Stuff is exposed. In areas where I mist and water the plants, then it is holding up just fine(resistant). 

So, I'd say(once again, in my limited experience) that if you're to have it submersed or exposed to constant water flow(such as waterfall or dripwall), then Titebond III would be a better option. 
All other areas, where water isn't a constant, then I think Titebond II would work perfectly well.

As far as my thin spots, then thankfully due to another post about semi-aquatic plants, I think I will be looking for some anubias to plant on the waterfall walls.

Thanks, Chris.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Chris, thanks. That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. I won't have any running water in my viv. Not even a misting system, just a fogger at most. I think the Titebond 2 should be fine.


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

I would have saved big money had I known Titebond II could be used  I paid $30 for the III and all I have is a trickle feature, which will not touch the background since it goes right into a driftwood piece then to a plastic reservoir.

BTW, after letting it dry overnight, it was still pretty wet this morning (12 hrs cure time so far). I left a fan turned on right in front of it to see if it helps, but I have a feeling it may take a few days to completely harden. It does look great so far! I like it MUCH better than the silicone/coco fiber look!


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Like most adhesives I bet it's gonna take 24 hrs or better to fully cure. I've been debating whether I want to want to work on my viv in the garage or in the spare bedroom. I guess they both have their pros and cons. Garage would be hot and cleanup would be easy. But the spare bedroom has A/C which would lower the humidity and perhaps the glue would dry quicker?


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

I'd say spare room. Cleanup is super easy and I'm sure the A/C will help dry out time. Also, there's no nasty fumes either with this method, so nothing to worry about there.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

That's what I'm thinking too. The spare bedroom has a tile floor, so cleanup of excess peat shouldn't be a problem either.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I've heard that titebond can sometimes take up to 5 days to dry so don't rush it. Make sure it's solid as a rock when it's dry


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

On all the titebond/peat bgs I've done I let them cure for a week. The glue dries quickly, but I would rather be safe. Though there are no noxious fumes which is awesome (silicone bg=exposure to mustard gas lol), there is still a slight smell that dissipates after a few days. I'm happy with my titebond II bgs, but I don't do any water features...seems like III would be the way to go with those.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

fieldnstream said:


> On all the titebond/peat bgs I've done I let them cure for a week. The glue dries quickly, but I would rather be safe. Though there are no noxious fumes which is awesome (silicone bg=exposure to mustard gas lol), there is still a slight smell that dissipates after a few days. I'm happy with my titebond II bgs, but I don't do any water features...seems like III would be the way to go with those.


Also to add on what Field said, it also will shrink the foam and pull it off the bg so fill in those areas with more glue or silicone.

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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

diggenem said:


> Also to add on what Field said, it also will shrink the foam and pull it off the bg so fill in those areas with more glue or silicone.
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


That's why I liked Gorilla Glue, it didn't shink anything and but it dried so hard and was such a mess to work with. Cross your fingers you don't get any on you, the stuff never comes off. I had GG/peat on my fingers for a week.


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## tgregoire (Jul 21, 2010)

Gorilla glue is THE best, it has no flaws in my opinion! Used it once and will never go back to silicone!


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I do like GG better but you can't buy it by the gallon. It might be perfect for filling in the gaps since it doesn't shrink.

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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

tgregoire said:


> Gorilla glue is THE best, it has no flaws in my opinion! Used it once and will never go back to silicone!


Really? Did you ever have a problem with plants not rooting on it cause it's so hard?


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

JaredJ said:


> Really? Did you ever have a problem with plants not rooting on it cause it's so hard?


I have had no problems with plants not being able to root on it. If the plant can root on wood it would have no problem on TB or GG


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

Going on 40 hours now & TB III/peat moss is not yet completely dry.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Drying time of course is dependant on the humidty in the air. Wherever you live it must be humid.


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

I live I the most humid state... Florida!!! And the most humid city... Miami!!!


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Eiffel70 said:


> I live I the most humid state... Florida!!! And the most humid city... Miami!!!


There ya go....you're practically living underwater lol


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Has anyone ever tried the Gorilla glue brand white wood glue? It says on the bottle it's non-toxic, water clean up and once cured it's type II water resistant and foodsafe like Titebond. The website says once cured the bond is virtually unbreakable. The white wood glue doesn't foam like the original does and can be thinned with water but dries just as hard.


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

I think that's a method also, but I'd worry about the glue drying white. TB III was supposed to dry clear, but I added a small can of brown latex paint to mine in order to give it the "dirt look" ($2.99 sample size from HD).


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I did it yesterday with glue and peat. What's a good ratio to use because I feel I used way more glue then I expected. I mean it works and is pretty hard. Actually pretty sharp too, but I couldn't seem to get it down easily with the first tank. I would say silicone is way easier and quicker so I feel I did something wrong. Especially since I would almost rather put the extra money in for silicone


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Pacblu202 said:


> I did it yesterday with glue and peat. What's a good ratio to use because I feel I used way more glue then I expected. I mean it works and is pretty hard. Actually pretty sharp too, but I couldn't seem to get it down easily with the first tank. I would say silicone is way easier and quicker so I feel I did something wrong. Especially since I would almost rather put the extra money in for silicone


I think a good ratio is 3 to 1. I used half a gallon on three sides of a 56 column. I found the best results when the mixture is the consistency of melted ice cream. It should look like cookies and cream if you ever seen what it looks when it melts. IMO it's easier to cover everything I want than silicone, no harsh smell, and it's more durable than the silicone method. To keep it from being so sharp just press more peat into it while it's still wet like you would with silicone.

If you use the above method you shouldnt have any bare spots and I still thinks it's less expensive than silicone especially on larger tanks. 

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## erik775 (Aug 19, 2012)

Does it pull it off the glass a lot?man i hate wen that happens...

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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

diggenem said:


> I think a good ratio is 3 to 1. I used half a gallon on three sides of a 56 column. I found the best results when the mixture is the consistency of melted ice cream. It should look like cookies and cream if you ever seen what it looks when it melts. IMO it's easier to cover everything I want than silicone, no harsh smell, and it's more durable than the silicone method. To keep it from being so sharp just press more peat into it while it's still wet like you would with silicone.
> 
> If you use the above method you shouldnt have any bare spots and I still thinks it's less expensive than silicone especially on larger tanks.
> 
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


Does that mean 3 parts glue 1 part peat? Or the other way around?


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Does that mean 3 parts glue 1 part peat? Or the other way around?


Most likely 3 parts glue, the other way around wouldnt hold i dont think.

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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Does that mean 3 parts glue 1 part peat? Or the other way around?


Yes 3 parts glue 1 part peat



erik775 said:


> Does it pull it off the glass a lot?man i hate wen that happens...
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-MS840 using Tapatalk 2


it just pulls off around the edges, I just add more mix to the edges.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Okay. And if it's already sharp what do I do? Haha one tank I used about a half gallon glue to half gallon of peat and it's really sharp but dry


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## Giga (Mar 31, 2011)

I used this method for my tank, I think I used not enough glue though.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Giga said:


> I used this method for my tank, I think I used not enough glue though.


when you mix it is should be thick but runny enough where you can kind of pour it like cake batter.


Pacblu202 said:


> Okay. And if it's already sharp what do I do? Haha one tank I used about a half gallon glue to half gallon of peat and it's really sharp but dry


you can sand the sharp edges, but i think it will be ok once you get some growth on it.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

diggenem said:


> you can sand the sharp edges, but i think it will be ok once you get some growth on it.


Okay. Thanks! I'll get the rest done tonight hopefully if I have enough glue left. 2 more 29's backs and 2 sides of a 10 vert


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

No problem. Ou may need some more though


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Yeah I know. I'll go as far as I can haha


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

I used Titebond III on my current build and I tried both adding water to the peat/coir first and just glue. The plain glue mix dried a lot faster than the area with the added water...but there was more shrinkage with just the glue I think. I do like this method better than silicone for the background.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Titebond says it can be thinned up to 5% so I guess it comes down to which is more important... faster dry time or less shrinkage.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

JaredJ said:


> Titebond says it can be thinned up to 5% so I guess it comes down to which is more important... faster dry time or less shrinkage.


Lol nobody likes shrinkage  but seriously I didn't know that but I really don't mind fixing a few spots along the edges gives me a chance to make sure everything is nice and solid.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

To me since there will more than likely be shrinkage from either method I would rather just use straight glue without water added to the peat/coir. It's not hard to patch any areas that shrink enough to make gaps/cracks. Also as previously stated it can pull the GS off the silicone on the glass, so to anyone preparing to do this method needs to make preparations for this. It's simple to touch up edges after it's dry. Just make sure you let the background fully cure before planting or anything so you can check for any areas that need touched up. Just some pointers that I have learned from my experience with this method. 

-Josh


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

I used Titebond II and peat for this BG and I'm really pleased. I did a couple of tanks, a 55 and a 36 gal. The smaller tank I just kinda poured the Titebond II on and spread it around with my fingers. On the 55 I used a 1" paintbrush to literally paint the glue on. The 55 needed much much less touchup work than the 36. I didn't mix the Titebond and peat, just spread the glue and pressed in the peat. Here is the back of the 55. I'm giving each side a full 48 hrs to dry before moving on to the next side. I'm really liking the results I'm getting with this method so far.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I used Titebond II and peat for this BG and I'm really pleased. I did a couple of tanks, a 55 and a 36 gal. The smaller tank I just kinda poured the Titebond II on and spread it around with my fingers. On the 55 I used a 1" paintbrush to literally paint the glue on. The 55 needed much much less touchup work than the 36. I didn't mix the Titebond and peat, just spread the glue and pressed in the peat. Here is the back of the 55. I'm giving each side a full 48 hrs to dry before moving on to the next side. I'm really liking the results I'm getting with this method so far.


Looks good Jon! Can't wait to see it finished. I just finished my tanks and getting them up and together this week.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Pacblu202 said:


> Looks good Jon! Can't wait to see it finished. I just finished my tanks and getting them up and together this week.


Thanks!!! Post some pics of yours!!


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

So for those with titebond experience:
I just used silicone to do my background on my 125g, and unfortunately it dried quicker than i had anticipated, so i had to pull the "skin" off the silicone to get to the wet part again.

It made my background very thin, and now it has some bare spots on the background... etc... 

Can i mix the titebond 3 with the substrate and just apply it over top of the current background to give it more depth? 

Since its glue i would imagine itll stick, right?

Thx All.


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm not really sure how it would turn out. I can say that titebond dosent stick to silicone. Well at least in my experience it didn't. Now if there is enough peat for it to adhere to you might be in luck. On my background what I did was silicone the glass... Then GS... Then I painted everything with a dryloc mix (dryloc + sand + concrete tint). Then I put on the titebond III + peat/coir mix. The reason for the dryloc coat was that I wanted some areas to show through the peat mix. Just remember as stated that the titebond shrinks some once cured... So you might have a little touching up to do. I would test a smaller area and see how that works first before doing anything large to prevent a mess. Now if that didn't work I would bet if you coated it with dryloc first... Being that it's technically like a paint. The dryloc would probably adhere better than the titebond III. I know that would be a lot of extra work to do though.

-Josh


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I used Titebond II and peat for this BG and I'm really pleased. I did a couple of tanks, a 55 and a 36 gal. The smaller tank I just kinda poured the Titebond II on and spread it around with my fingers. On the 55 I used a 1" paintbrush to literally paint the glue on. The 55 needed much much less touchup work than the 36. I didn't mix the Titebond and peat, just spread the glue and pressed in the peat. Here is the back of the 55. I'm giving each side a full 48 hrs to dry before moving on to the next side. I'm really liking the results I'm getting with this method so far.


I'm liking that background. Looking good. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

Gamble said:


> So for those with titebond experience:
> I just used silicone to do my background on my 125g, and unfortunately it dried quicker than i had anticipated, so i had to pull the "skin" off the silicone to get to the wet part again.
> 
> It made my background very thin, and now it has some bare spots on the background... etc...
> ...



I would like to know what others thought as well, last silicone/peat BG looks like crap, but don't want to start over, would like to try TB III and peat over the silicone/peat, will it work?


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

After trying both types of backgrounds (silicone vs. titebond) I don't think I would use titebond again. It works ok and was pretty easy to complete. I didn't mix the peat with the glue because the majority of my background is cork bark panels. I applied the titebond with a brush to the foam that went around the cork. Then I pressed the peat into it. 

The problem I am having is that there are spots of titebond that are refusing to dry. They are spots where I needed a little more glue to fill a void. I have a couple spots that are going on two weeks, and they are still very wet. Frustrating...


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Thats really weird, whenever I use it its dry within 5 hours or so (except for really deep cracks which I plug with a "booger" of peat/titebond I scrape off of my gloves). Did you dilute the glue or use it straight?


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

fieldnstream said:


> Thats really weird, whenever I use it its dry within 5 hours or so (except for really deep cracks which I plug with a "booger" of peat/titebond I scrape off of my gloves). Did you dilute the glue or use it straight?


I didn't dilute it at all. I think what is happening is that the very top is drying. There is still a little glue underneath that won't dry. These are spots where the glue was a little thicker, however, I still didn't think it would take this long. 

The frustrating part is that the tank is ready to go after this for plants and what not. I may just have to set it upright and try to clean up whatever drips out.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Try turning on a fan and having it blow in the viv


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## grantska (Apr 12, 2012)

I also had some problems with the Titebond not fully drying....I let the background dry for a couple of days after application. Everything looked and felt dry and hard. After putting in moist substrate I noticed some of the deeper cracks starting to soften up. Luckily my background is removable and I was able to slide it out and give it a few extra days to dry with a fan blowing on it. Despite this problem I am very happy with the the Titebond method and my results. Next time ill just have to resist the urge to rush things and let the thing dry a few more days.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Thanks for the suggestions. I am really regretting using the titebond. I am obviously not doing something right. 

Anyway, There are a couple spaces on the sides and around some cork bark that won't fill in. I have tried straight glue, glue mixed with peat, and it always shrinks and pulls away from the sides. A frog can't get behind the background from the sides. Do you all think it would be ok to stuff some moss in the gaps to fill them in? 

I am really tired of working with the glue. I don't want to use anymore. The gap between the background and the side glass is about the width of my index finger in a couple places. In others it is much smaller.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

LizardLicker said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I am really regretting using the titebond. I am obviously not doing something right.
> 
> Anyway, There are a couple spaces on the sides and around some cork bark that won't fill in. I have tried straight glue, glue mixed with peat, and it always shrinks and pulls away from the sides. A frog can't get behind the background from the sides. Do you all think it would be ok to stuff some moss in the gaps to fill them in?
> 
> I am really tired of working with the glue. I don't want to use anymore. The gap between the background and the side glass is about the width of my index finger in a couple places. In others it is much smaller.


I think you should silicone some moss in there. I'm using T3 it isn't messy or smelly, but it takes way 2 long to dry, but I like application. I used the water, abg, T3 method. I started a tank on sunday and I need a few more spots to dry. I will post the finished product. Im going to put the fan on it though...


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

I used Titebond III on my current 180g build with no problems. On my build I did a test of straight glue and watered down glue and the straight glue dried much quicker. I like it so much better than silicone/peat for a background. Yea it has a longer dry time but it has water cleanup and no fumes. I just let mine cure for about a week before checking it again and everything was good and dry. Here is my build log if you want to check it out. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...0-gallon-viv-build-plus-two-20-gal-verts.html


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## Brettkeith (Sep 16, 2012)

im looking at building my very first vivarium here this winter, and Im going to be doing a Styrofoam background as a "Mountain Range", would it be a good idea to "seal" but also "cover" with the Titebond III / Peat Moss cover? Or would there be a better way to seal the styrofoam so i wouldn't need to worry about shrinking, deterioration or anything like that?


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

The best thing to do this throw the fan on it. This is cutting my drying time down dramatically.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

I have a fan on it now. I put it on the day before yesterday. 

Actual drying time now is 13 days. I do think it is a problem of airflow. Even with the fan there isn't a lot of air moving down in the gaps where I put the glue. 

I will check again when it is dry, but none of the gaps seem dangerous to frogs as far as them getting stuck. Most are much smaller than that. They are just unsightly. I will just stuff something in them and move on.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Here's what the finished product looks like. I only did one of the side panels. Next is the drylock and I'm all done...


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

This post is just for reference in case it happens to someone else. It has now been 30 days exactly now since I applied some titebond, with a little peat mixed in, to the gaps in my build.

There are areas that are still not dry. I can still smell the glue on one side. I also pulled a small section of glue that had pooled below the background. It was ~1mm thick. It was still yellow and mushy/wet on the side that was in contact with the glass. There is air circulation, but it is minimal. However, the area of glue I pulled off the glass was completely free of any obstruction. It was entirely open to the air. Fans have made no noticeable difference. 

I just thought I would post this for those considering using the glue. I know it doesn't happen often, but I guess it could happen again. Obviously, I will never use this method again. 

It is pretty frustrating because I may have to redo my entire 4ft by 2.5ft background. This is the only thing holding me up.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Sorry to see that Lizard. 
Honestly the only time I had an issue with the glue not drying is when I wet the substrate with water before mixing it. 

I would suggest using gorilla glue because it dries faster and a bit easier to work with, but I have never seen it sold by the gallon.

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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Sorry to hear about that frustrating issue with the glue. Something went terribly wrong there! I can only imagine how aggravating that is! I've had pretty good luck with mine. After 8 hours or less, mine has been dry and ready for touch-up and/or second coat. I always used very dry peat, if that makes any difference. I hope round 2 goes MUCH smoother for ya!

-Chris


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Ok i hace a titebond question. Has anyone used it on just the glass as a bg and how did it turn out?

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## amnesia (Jan 23, 2011)

diggenem said:


> Ok i hace a titebond question. Has anyone used it on just the glass as a bg and how did it turn out?


I did just that on part of a build last night. I have areas where I spread TB3 over glass, and over foam before covering with peat. It stuck to the glass just fine, at roughly 6% dilution. It WILL NOT stick to cured silicone, maybe due to being diluted.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

amnesia said:


> I did just that on part of a build last night. I have areas where I spread TB3 over glass, and over foam before covering with peat. It stuck to the glass just fine, at roughly 6% dilution. It WILL NOT stick to cured silicone, maybe due to being diluted.


I think it just doesn't stick to silicone at all. 
Appreciate the quick response. I got a lil impatient on finishing the bg on my new build. There is a small portion of foam holding the wood in place and the rest is bare glass. 


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