# Mushrooms in viv?



## Chano (Oct 29, 2007)

Is there any up or down side to having mushrooms in a viv? I have seen some really cool looking mushrooms and found a place to get spores. With the high humidity and the temps in a viv it could be an idea place for some types to grow.


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## TheDoc (Aug 8, 2007)

From what i have read there not a problem, If you consider all the fungi that these frogs encounter in the wild the fungi that we see shouldnt be an issue. I have had a couple cool looking ones pop up but they didnt last longer then a day or so.


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## Smashtoad (Apr 27, 2007)

Mushrooms most likely will not be a problem in a viv, but trying to grow them on purpose would very difficult. Predicting and planning fungus growth is a very difficult thing to do.

That said...who knows...you may perfect it. Knock yourself out...what would be cooler than a 7 inch Fly Agaric just off center in a 75 gallon?


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## Chano (Oct 29, 2007)

I have been reading up on spore cultures quite a bit, it seems that if given high humidity and choosing the right mushrooms its really not to difficult. I found a website that sells everything you need for mushroom cultures. The only thing is when you do it this way its not going to be just one or two mushrooms its going to be like 10-30 of them. From what i have seen and read like the size of a softball (total) or a little bigger. I think it will be worth a try as long as it wont harm my frogs. This is the one i am thinking of. This is a bigger culture than i would really want but on the bright side they are edible so when i cut them back i can eat them and they wont go to waste


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Try this link for fun: http://mushroomexpert.com 

I don't know if you will find much advice on growing them in a vivarium, but there are loads of photos with extensive identifications, and a forum. The forum is mostly devoted to collecting edible species, especially the morels, but you might have a good time there. 

I've had 7 or perhaps 8 different species simply crop up in my vivariums at one time or another, sometimes only after the vivarium is several years old. I've never tried to introduce spores. Many shrooms will spend a very long time just as mycelium in the substrate or on logs before conditions are just right to produce the obvious fruiting body we know as mushrooms. 

A quote from the Book: Mushrooms Demystified by David Arora says it all, I think:

MUSHROOMS AND THE ENVIRONMENT

[IT IS the "role" of fungi to break things down, to give things back. One of the most obvious laws of nature is that existing things must die if new life is to flourish. Stale air must go out the window if fresh air is to come in. If there were no vehicle for the disposal of dead matter, there would soon be no need for one--we could all be buried under a blanket of inert matter. Fungi, along with bacteria, are precisely that vehicle. They are nature's recyclers, the soil's replenishers. Plants deplete the soil by extracting minerals to manufacture their food. Animals, in turn, devour plants. In feeding on dead (or occasionally living) matter, fungi and bacteria reduce complex organic compounds to simpler building blocks, thereby enabling plants to re-use them. Thus, in a very profound sense, fungi are life-gives as well as destroyers. To associate them only with death and decay--as so many people do--is to do them, as well as our own ability to perceive, an injustice.]

Here's something that grows periodically in one of my imitator tanks that is related to the edible species you posted, but I never introduced it.


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## Chano (Oct 29, 2007)

I think this would be a perfect type of mushroom as it would offer hiding places, places for them to be visible, add a bit of different color, and they really look cool.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

We're both posting at the same time!


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## Joshchan (Apr 30, 2006)

Mushrooms Demystified is one of the best mushroom books ever written. My understanding is that most Amanita species grow in a mycorhizzal relationship with plants/trees. Amanita muscaria(Fly Agaric) is definitely a cool mushroom. It has a long tradition of use by humans, especially in Siberia. I really do not think it would be possible to culture this mushroom in a viv, if it is possible at all. I have not been into mushrooms for a number of years, and I could be wrong. It would be really cool if someone has figured out how to culture Amanitas. I know some people were doing some inoculation of nursery stock with things like chanterelles and morels. Check out Fungi Perfecti, Paul Stamets is the man.
Josh


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Hmm Morels... nice site Patty.

Years ago I took a year off college to figure out what the heck I wanted to do, and worked at at shop making Oak Furniture. The whole shop took a couple days off to go pick Morels. Some of the best mushrooms I ever had and nothing like getting paid to tromp through the woods all day. 

Mushrooms are one of those interesting things that I would love to have more time to understand. I agree it would be cool to be able to grow them in the tanks. I have had some tiny ones at times, but it is rare.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I doubt that it is possible to deliberately culture the majority of them at all in our vivariums. So many of them have specific, often symbiotic relationships to a very different environments, trees and plants. I'm only pleased and surprised when anything crops up "spontaneously," which it does quite often. I'm willing to just enjoy that when it happens.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I forget the trees that seemed to be were the Morels were I think it was rotting elm trees, but it has been years. I am reading some of that site, and wow very interesting stuff. I really should have picked a scientific career rather than this corporate political hell I'm in.


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## Smashtoad (Apr 27, 2007)

slaytonp said:


> I doubt that it is possible to deliberately culture the majority of them at all in our vivariums. So many of them have specific, often symbiotic relationships to a very different environments, trees and plants. I'm only pleased and surprised when anything crops up "spontaneously," which it does quite often. I'm willing to just enjoy that when it happens.


Yepper. It may "not be that difficult" to culture some of the larger edibles like shitake and portobella under the right circumstances, but that involves a big log to grow them on most of the time. Granted, these would both be very cool in the right vivarium.

But to think you could just pick a species and grow it is naive. I did some landscaping for a doctor (back in the day) who spent several thousand dollars constructng an environment in which to culture morels...one of the tastiest things God ever made...and did not get one.


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## Smashtoad (Apr 27, 2007)

kyle1745 said:


> I forget the trees that seemed to be were the Morels were I think it was rotting elm trees, but it has been years. I am reading some of that site, and wow very interesting stuff. I really should have picked a scientific career rather than this corporate political hell I'm in.


Kyle...I know...it is nice to think about "that job" isn't it? Well, the problem is that when you have that kind of job you can't afford pricey little hobbies like dart frogs...it's a vicious cycle of human nature that can summed up perfectly with "The grass is always greener..."

I moved to Indy with the hopes of getting a job as a keeper at the new zoo in 1987...which I did...and a year later all I could think about was making more money. Humans is funny.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

In our neck of the woods in Idaho morels grow abundantly in the wake of forest burns, the following year. Needless to say, there have been plenty of those in the past few years of drought and massive tree die-offs from diseases. We have both a huge (delicious) white species and the smaller black ones.

I got about 40 pounds of them from just one burn slope around Lowman without making a dent in the number of them that were there. So far, they've never been grown successfully commercially although the mycelium takes hold readily in cultures. They just don't appear to fruit unless conditions are "just right." Perhaps they need a period of freezing or cold weather. 

Chano--please keep us informed regarding your experiments with the mushrooms. Of course, we'll have to wait awhile. Is that photo one of the Chanterelles? Looks yummy.


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## drbp (Apr 22, 2007)

We grow Shitake and Lion's Mane that we've inoculated into logs and live happily outside our house. Most of the mushroom culture kits that you'll find require inoculation into logs. Of course, you could put some small hardwood logs/sticks into your viv after inocuation with spores and you'd probably have success. However, getting a "cool looking" local mushroom to come up (intentionally) in your viv would be tough. Also, the mushrooms themselves wouldn't last long (as mentioned previously, the mushrooms we see are just the fruiting bodies of the much larger fungal creature below).

That being said, I've dropped some spores into my viv a few times and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Incidentally, springtails LOVE rotting mushrooms...yum.

-ben


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

kyle1745 said:


> I forget the trees that seemed to be were the Morels were I think it was rotting elm trees, but it has been years. I


I love morel lore. No matter where you go, there is always a "favorite tree". Where I use to hunt them, it was cottonwoods. I spoke to a mycologist about it and he said it is all about soil conditions. They grow in places with right moisture and drainage and no matter where you live, there will be some tree that is also associated with those conditions. So it's true, look for those trees and you will likely find morels. 

I've known people who would sell their kids before giving up their "secret morel" haunts. The funny thing was that everybody's "secret place" seemed to be in the same locations. But I don't know what tastes better, Mountain oysters or morels. DEEELIcious.


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## Chano (Oct 29, 2007)

Keep in mind i never thought it would be easy just wanted opinions on if it was harmfull or even possible. A friend of mine used to cultivate mushrooms which is an entirely different story and not really appropriate for the board but i emailed him and this is what he replied. 

The 5 rules to shrooms

1. The Right Substrate - There are basically 2 types of mushrooms. Wood decomposers and Compost decomposers. If you tried to grow Shiitake for example, using a compost style substrate, you would have problems getting the mushroom to fruit. So, it's important to match the substrate material with the mushroom you are planning on growing.

2. The Right Light - Mushrooms do not need light to grow but rather use it as a triggering mechanism to start forming mushrooms. No special grow lights are needed as ambient light from the room or outside light are usually sufficient.

3. The Right Temperature - Temperature variations place an important part in each stage of mushroom development. From initial inoculation to incubation, the pinning stage and finally fruiting of the mushroom; various temperatures should be adjusted according to the species you are growing. For most mushrooms we will cover, our thermostatically controlled incubator will keep your substrate at the perfect temperature for incubation. 
During the pinning stage, a drop in temperature is required. We can trick the mushrooms by cold shocking them in the fridge for an amount of time. When you place the mushrooms in the fruiting chamber mushrooms will begin to form. 

4. The Right Fresh Air Exchange - At this point is when the next 2 dynamics of mushroom growing become most important. First, we will talk about how gases and air exchange work in relevance to the Mycosphere.

Gas laws are physical laws describing the behavior of a gas under various conditions of pressure, volume, and temperature. Air currents travel from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure. An analogy to this would be an elevator packed to maximum. As soon as the door opens the people pour out into the low populated hallway. Gas molecules work in a similar manner.

Here is where high and low pressures come into play. When gases are heated they expand and move farther apart; this lowers the pressure. When we load the Mycosphere with substrate, the reproducing mushrooms give off heat energy and raise the temperature inside which contributes to the gas expansion. Now we have a lower pressure inside the Mycosphere. 

The higher pressure air on the outside now enters through the top holes into the Mycosphere. 

Just like Helium is lighter than air and floats, conversely, carbon dioxide is heavier than air and sinks; congregating near the bottom and around our substrate. Mushrooms can only tolerate a certain amount of carbon dioxide . That's why fresh air exchange is so important. Now that we have fresh air entering through the top we need a place for the carbon dioxide to escape. This is done through the Base effusion holes. 

Effusion is the process where gas molecules escape through tiny holes in the container. This design automates your Fresh Air Exchange.

5. The Right Humidity - This part is most important of all. Mushrooms are 90% water afterall. We use an ultrasonic mister to create fog like conditions inside the MycoSphere. This will elevate your Relative Humidity to 95-99%.*

If i could find a spieces that fits the requirements temp wise and i could keep the humidity over 90% i should be able to do it provided i start the cultures before and put them in the viv to fruit. In theory i could start a few cultures at different times and cycle them through and have a ready supply of tasty treats.


*dont know what site this came from he said he didnt have the link he just copied it into a file a while back he said if he could find it we would send it to me. Its some kind of growing kit he uses nowdays he grows shiitake, morels, and what he calls spongies.(he doesnt know the name)


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## Opcn (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm thinking about getting a Panellus stipticus culture from sporeworks and adding a chunk to my planned PDF/nepenthes tank, any thoughts? I would like a smaller mushroom but generally speaking the only small shrooms that will grow in a terrarium that you can get spores or cultures for are psilocybes and I don't much fancy the idea of getting arrested (I have on duty police officers in my room on a regular basis)


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