# the ever-present water quality question



## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

I probably missed an existing thread on this, so if I did, forgive me -

I've tried finding a water quality report online from my town's water supply but thus far have not had luck determining things like whether chloramine has been added, what the mineral content is, etc. I'd prefer not to send out a sample for a water test because I figure (a) that's money I can just throw at a RO filter or (b) that's money I can just throw at more fun plants. I can, perhaps, go by other indicators like:
- I do have some water-spotting on plastic things (acrylic sliding doors on a shelved plant stand that catch overspray from my pump sprayer), though it's not real bad after years of not wiping them down
- I do have water-spotting on my clear plastic solo-type cup that I use in the bathroom for rinsing after brushing my teeth (so, probably some contamination there)
- I don't get water spots on washed and air-dried kitchen ware
- a bit of splashing from dripping water in a tank I was attempting a drip wall in didn't seem to leave any water spots on the glass
- I've been using untreated tap water used for watering all of my plants to date and species that I imagine are more sensitive, like Pleurothallis grobyi, are doing well and seem to be suffering no ill affects
- I borrowed a TDS meter from a friend's lab a few years ago and I'm pretty sure the reading was below 100ppm, though I don't recall what season it was or the water temperature (probably tepid, though) because I know that can impact the results
- if anyone's in my area and has been through this already and knows our water quality, the part of my county that I'm in draws its water from Baltimore City

I'm about to set up two terraria (no animals) and want to do it right with water quality. First I have to rinse the drainage layer (Josh's Frogs lightweight stuff) and then moisten the planting media (NEHerp orig. mix). I was fine doing both with tap water but am rethinking things ad nauseum. Thoughts?


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

From the Baltimore DPW website - "Water customers outside of Baltimore City may dial 410-396-5352 for assistance."

I work for the water dept in my local city. You can call and they can easily tell you if you're dealing with chlorine or chloramines. Any other readings will be pretty specific to your location. Just FYI, any water spotting you're seeing comes from minerals in the water, and not necessarily chemicals or contaminants. The city I live in/work for gets water from both well and surface waters, as well as 2 different water plants. Well water tends to be much harder (more minerals), but it can be very regional. It appears Baltimore city has three different water plants pulling from surface lakes, so depending on your location you may be getting water from 1,2. or all 3. If you are getting water from more than one plant then you may be getting water with different qualities depending on the current blend.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Ever keep fish? You can still get a good kit and check pH, ammonia, nitrite levels. You don't get mineral deposits? 

Also, how does the water taste? Here in NYC, all we need do is let the water sit over night. But in other parts of the state, the harder water would kill bromeliads some other monocots.


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Yeah, it's mostly the "hard" minerals and possible chloramines I'm worried about. I did come across a water dechlorinator that (I think...it's downstairs) does chloramine too without all the other fishy additives (promoting slime coat and all that) but I have yet to try it. Good point about differing blends of water sources. I'm not in Baltimore County but our neighboring county - or, where I am in it, anyway - draws its water from their supply. (So city water here, no wells, though I am right up against the line where the houses start using well water.)

No, never kept fish...maybe some day! I'm not as worried about nitrates, ammonia, etc. as much as I would be chloramine, sodium, calcium, etc. Water taste is difficult to judge because I've grown up on it but I can say that it's not soft because I have washed my hands in soft water and the soap feels like it takes forever to wash off. Nor do we have very hard water, I'm guessing, because of the opposite - I've been in a place in Michigan where the soap seemed to disappear in an instant when rinsed. Not a scientific test, I realize, but there it is. I do sometimes let a watering can sit overnight as I know at least some of the chlorine will volatilize/evaporate. Another possible "canary in the coalmine" example might be some Elaphoglossum peltatum I bought at an orchid show back about ten weeks ago: I keep them very humid by using a dome over them (until they go in the terrarium) but they've been on the tap water - "stale" or fresh - ever since I got them. No signs of problems yet, but perhaps it hasn't been long enough...I'm a newbie with Elaphoglossum.

I don't think I have mineral deposits on things from the tap water, no, save for the light spotting on the acrylic panes of the plant stand. (It was built to be mostly enclosed for maintaining humidity.) The plants I mist daily with a pump sprayer of tap water don't have water spots, so I'm taking that to be a good sign.

I still might cut the tap water 50-50 or so with distilled, at least for initial mistings, just in case. I do intend to start moss from a spore mix and I imagine the mosses will be one of the more sensitive denizens. Still...the moss that came in the pots underneath the Elaphoglossum seems fine so far....

You see my dilemma.


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Oh, and on the bromeliad note, if it helps as an indicator -

Neo. 'Chiquita Linda' seems fine - well, the two small pups, anyway, which I mist every day or so.
Also have several Tillandsia and they seem ok; a few old portions of an ionantha clump may have browned tips to the leaves but I think it might be a humidity issue, age or possibly even over-fertilization (though I think I under-fertilize most things I grow). It's only on the oldest clumps I have, and the rest seem to be thriving or at least holding their own.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

RO/DI's can be pricy, at least what you call pricy.
I have beta test several RODI filters and find the Smart RODI from Icecap (my CoralVue friends) the best, the price ticket is $3.5 franklins in believe.
If you have already one great if not than I think in this hobby even with a few Viv's it's overkill.
Get your self a 5 gallon water jug for a few bugs and sometimes free if you ask your local restaurants.
Than look for a LFS in your area (everyone has one) and fill it with RODI water for $0.50 on the gallon, that will last you a long time in order to mist.


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

What's an "LFS"?


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

I agree with Diesel on just keeping a 5 gallon jug of RODI, but just so it's said, there are other systems that would fit your needs for quite a bit cheaper than $350. 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/5-stage-75gpd-value-ro-di-system-bulk-reef-supply.html

I have extremely hard water and while I just de-chlorinated for the first year or two, the water deposits became insane and etched my first couple tanks. I've used a similar system as the one above for about 8 or 9 years. You really learn how hard your water is when you get a misting system.


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## highvoltagerob (Apr 14, 2012)

LFS means local fish store


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Ah, ok, didn't know fish stores sold RO/distilled water. Will have to check on that; closest fish store is about 45 min. away so I'll call or email to ask first.

In the money pit that terraria seem to be (like any good hobby, I suppose  ), there may come a day that I get a misting system (based on what I've read, MistKing is looking good), but for now, it'll be via a pressure-sprayer by hand. (I know, automated misters are great if one ever wants to leave the house and travel, which I do!) And the more I look into RO systems, the more daunting they become. On general principle, I'd prefer one that wastes little water, or can store the waste water for other uses (without having to go through a plumber). However, between figuring out a place to store both the wastewater and the finished water, figuring out what GPD capacity I'd need, deciding if I'd want one that can flush the membranes to preserve their life versus just replacing them sooner (doing a cost analysis to see which makes more sense), and so on...it's going to take awhile to come to that decision. I think for now I just need to figure out if using RO/distilled water is even worth the trouble. I'm assuming it is in the end, so my first step will be trying the fish store supply route.

Thanks -


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Ok, so fish store is selling it .10 cheaper per gallon than the grocery store. Not worth the gas it'll take to get there, so there we are.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

FYI, grocery stores have RO water as it is for human consumption.
LFS have the pure RODI water which should be 0.0 TDS as RO water still has some minerals and elements in there as it.


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Hmm...just for my own education on the matter...
The grocery store (both of them) has it labelled "distilled," which is a different process than RO. You think it's innocently mislaballed, like they're using the terms interchangeably? Maybe, but I doubt it. Also, I thought RO (and definitely distilled) water was unfit for drinking as-is. I realize it can be used for other things, but I didn't think they were actually carrying it as a drinking water, even though that *is* the aisle in which they stock it.
Still, with the point being that it's probably got fewer harmful things in it than my tap water, I'm betting it's a step up.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Chlorophile said:


> - I've been using untreated tap water used for watering all of my plants to date and species that I imagine are more sensitive, like Pleurothallis grobyi, are doing well and seem to be suffering no ill affects


For what it's worth (not much as it's purely anecdotal), I've grown quite a few Pleurothallids (and other orchids) using my tap water, and it's almost liquid chalk and has plenty of chlorine/chloramines. I don't find the plants overly sensitive (except Carnivorous plants and some rarer tropicals), so I wouldn't worry TOO much if it's just plants.



Chlorophile said:


> In the money pit that terraria seem to be (like any good hobby, I suppose  ),


Be glad you aren't keeping saltwater tanks... I tried that and immediately went out and bought more plants than I had room for instead, and still didn't spend nearly as much as I would've on a reef tank .


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

RO water is perfectly fit for drinking water.
RODI isn't but it won't kill you.
Not saying here that RO or distilled water is unfit for use in this hobby.
Just staying with the facts the difference between Ro and RODI.

Reef hobby is so much different than this hobby.
As a vet in the reef/coral industry, corals are so much sensitive to water quality than plants yes even orchids.
For me it's just a ease to RODI as I filter 300 gallon RODI a week for the reef tank and frag tanks.
I have to as the SPS frags and since last three year the mushrooms bringing big bills of fun $$$$$$ on the table.
Without my RODI water that isn't possible.

https://photos.smugmug.com/R2R-TOTM/i-WnDnBtV/0/a0543dfc/L/20151122M2400297_BenV-L.jpg


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## wcarterh (Dec 25, 2017)

Boondoggle is correct. Although they may need to give you the number for the local water treatment plant. Many office personnel, but not all, are clueless of the process. You can also bring to the LFS, or more expensive, buy a "free chlorine" and a "total chlorine" test. If you have near zero free chlorine, they are using choramines. Which require a much higher amount of de-chlorinator. But if you are using sprayers like the mist king, you want either RO or distilled. The minerals will quickly plug the sprayer heads.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I am not sure about some of the information in this thread. To the best of my knowledge, RO (Reverse Osmosis) refers to passing water across a membrane and leaving the stuff you don't want behind. Distilling refers to boiling the water and capturing the water vapor and allowing it to condense back into liquid (leaving the stuff you don't want behind  DI refers to de-ionized water which is achieved through the use of another filter. The grocery store should be labeling the water with the process used to purify it (if any). "Spring Water" at the grocery store doesn't mean much except that it probably hasn't been purified beyond making it potable. I would do your own research on all of this, in case I am wrong, though.

If you think you will use a lot of water (multiple gallons per day, for example) then an RO system might make sense. Most seem to produce a lot of waste water for each gallon of water produced. An alternative is a distiller such as the one in this thread:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/300242-distiller-alternative-ro.html

Finally, if you don't use close to a gallon per day, it maybe most cost effective to buy distilled water from the grocery store. That will be plenty pure for what most of us do in this hobby.

Mark


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Distiller is a good idea; something I can look into and research, thank you.

Jugs say "purified by steam distillation; filtered and ozonated". I think it lists the source water as a stream in Pennsylvania, but I'd have to double-check...it's tiny print.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Chlorophile said:


> Distiller is a good idea; something I can look into and research, thank you.
> 
> Jugs say "purified by steam distillation; filtered and ozonated". I think it lists the source water as a stream in Pennsylvania, but I'd have to double-check...it's tiny print.


The distillation process is the main piece of information. If that is done right (and I have to assume it is) then the other stuff is just gravy, including the original source. I suppose they could be getting the water from some industrial run-off from a factory and you would have to be careful of volatiles, but almost any relatively natural freshwater supply will yield water that is just fine for our use following the distillation process. 

Unless you are going through a bunch of water, those jugs will serve you just fine. It would take years to make up the cost of a distiller, let alone an RO unit, unless you are using gallons of water per day. If it's not hugely inconvenient, I would just let the store supply your water for now 

Mark


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