# Need Help Asap



## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I have a D. Azuerus and he is looking a bit lethargic. He is barely walking and his back legs are extended so he is low to the ground. He looks like he has broken limbs. I have no idea what this is. Is this what happens when is he sheds? He dosen't seem like he can hop he is just dragging his body across. I fed him and my leucomelas which is smaller and younger than hime got all the food first. Please Help. I have no idea what to do. My temp and humidity are all corrent. I actually havent seen him out for a day or two until now. Please help Asap Thanks


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

Are you using vitamins to dust his food?


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## donstr (Jun 21, 2007)

frank6 said:


> I fed him and my leucomelas which is smaller and younger than hime got all the food first.


It seems to me you might want to separate them if the younger, smaller frog is getting all the food first. Common sense. Right?

Secondly, do you dust feeder insects with vitamins and calcium? You might want to explain your set up and care of the frogs in order for people to better help you. Pictures might help, too, but I guess you said you haven't seen it for a few days...
Good luck.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

Yes I dust the food most of the time, I just set up a small exo-terra, plastic one like 3 gallons. I'm just waiting for the temps to adjust. How should I try to get him out of the tank? I think I will give him phoenix worms in the smaller tank. What could this be? Thanks


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I just got him out of the tank and into the quarrantine. He was still the same. I think the problem is better describe like this. He has minimal control over his back legs. He can barely move them and has no strenght over them. I put a drop of honey on him in the new tank incase it was a sugar thing and he made one hop across the tank a few seconds after and hasn't moved again since. He looks bad. What does it look like when they shed? Thanks


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

any chance it just not submissive posture look at the 3rd vid

MistKing :: Resources


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

In the beggining of the video is similiar to what he looks like all the time even in the new tank. I don't think that is it though. He seems injured. He can barely walk.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

sometimes when temps get too high they go through something called heat related muscle spasm. which causes their legs to extend in the later stages. it could be something else other than this, but were your temps over 85F for long periods of time?


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I have a digital thermometer and it is placed in the middle of the tank and it read about 77f when this was happening. My other frog was fine though. I don't let my temps get over 80 and hot air rises so the hotter air should be up top.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

then it wasn't hrms, how is he now? i would try and contact dr. frye


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

He is still bad. Do you think a vet who specializes in reptiles and exotic animals like frogs be able to do anything for him? Does Dr.Frye have a website. Thanks


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

I think Dr. Frye may be able to help, or at least tell give you a guess at whats wrong with him. I don't know how good your local vet is, definetily do not bring him into the vet, the stress would probably kill it. Some are better than others, but in my experience a lot of exotic animal vets have never even heard of dendrobates and really seem to have no idea what to do with a sick one. Dr. Frye's sit- Frye Brothers' Frogs


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

Thanks I just e-mailed him and told him the problem. The store I bought him from told me to bring him in so they could look at him. They are only about less than a mile away. Should I or would this be stressful too? Thanks


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

I wouldn't. I would wait for dr. Frye to give you his opinion. He has a great background with PDF's.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Do some searches on here for pedialite soaks. You should be able to go to the store & pick some up and begin soaking him in that. Just remember to get the plain, unflavoried variety. I can't remember if you delute it or use 100% - but you should be able to find that on the site. He will be able to absorb some of it & should pick up a bit.

I don't know if I totally agree with the advice to not take him back to the place you got him. If you had gotten the frog from a private breeder, that would be my first suggestion - since it was purchased from a pet store - the choice is up to you.

PROs - if you take it to them, and you follow their advice & still loose the frog they might give you a credit towards a replacement.

CONs - if they don't know what they are doing - it might not be worth while. Won't be able to help & the stress of transport will not help the frog.

Unfortunately, it has been my experience that when we finally realize the frog has an issue it is too late - especially when they are your first frogs. 

Without knowing additional details about your setup, etc.. it is hard to say if keeping them in the environment is benificial or detrimental. Based on your response - you already moved him. I would set him up in a container with a wet paper towel & some leaf litter or plant cuttings. If you are worried about him stressing out, cover the container with a towel.

Honey was a clever idea, I don't know if someone suggested that or you have some previous experience. For those of you who are going WFT??? applying honey or sugar can help allow the frog to get some quick energy. The downside, is you can apply too much and get their heart rate up and cause more issue in the long run. Going the pedilite route is much safer. 

Again - pedialite baths are going to be your best ER in this case. Do not use honey again - there is a bigger chance of killing him with an elivated heart rate. If he still has some on his back...continue spraying him until it is gone. Throw out the excess water that has run off.

Good luck.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

I would not take him back to the store, pics are almost as good as the real thing and it will not stress the frog out. I doubt that the people at the store will be able to give you a better diagnosis that Dr. Frye, but it couldn't hurt to show them pics. 

Melissa offers some really good advice, about the pedialite solution.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I read the honey thing on a really old post. I have done a pedialite soak with other pets so i'll try it tommorow but I don't think he's gonna make it by the time I get the pedialite. He can't move around so he can't eat and its been days. He is in quarrantine right now. Since he didn't die in the regualr tank do you think my leuc will be o.k. or will I have to clean out the tank anyway if he dosen't make it.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Does he seem to be spending an ususual amount of time in the water? or is he flicking his back legs? in the advanced stages of "scratching disease" the legs become almost paralyzed. 

As far as cleaning out the tank, it really depends on what the frog has. Many diseases/pathogens mask themselves until it is too late so your frogs could be infected if whatever the sick frog had was contagious. If your frog has parasites (which it doesn't sound like, but maybe could be) then all your frogs will be infected. If it has a bacterial infection or fungus then the other frogs probably have it as well. But if it is something like internal bleeding (not saying it is) or hrms then the other frogs will be fine (assuming there is nothing else that they are threatened by).


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I would be going and getting the pedialite tonight - not tomorrow morning. 

So, this is a mixed tank, huh?



frank6 said:


> I read the honey thing on a really old post. I have done a pedialite soak with other pets so i'll try it tommorow but I don't think he's gonna make it by the time I get the pedialite. He can't move around so he can't eat and its been days. He is in quarrantine right now. Since he didn't die in the regualr tank do you think my leuc will be o.k. or will I have to clean out the tank anyway if he dosen't make it.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

It is a mixed tank. All the stores that would have pedialite are closed. I will post pics in a few.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

Here are the pics and his rear legs to twitch unless it is him moving them every once in a while. He couldn't get up to go to the water bowl even if he really wanted to. Thanks


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

I am just a newbie but if its a mixed tank couldn't stress be a big factor?


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

why did you mix? why didn't you tell us that? mixing creates a whole lot of unnecessary problems. i am not going to list all of them because i am tired, but do a search on db about mixing and you will realize you have opened up a can of worms. 

do more research before you buy an animal next time. i'm not saying your frog is sick because of you, but you could have very easily caused it by putting it in with frogs of a different species.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

did dr.frye get into contact with you? personally i would never buy from a pet store. my opinion. I have yet to see one with good husbandry. who knows what diseases these darts have. i would do a search like emily suggested on mixing. big no-no. also quarantine and fecaling is a must. i always say this. read up on the asn protocols for quarantine and fecal procedures. it could be calcium defiency, i don't know how often you dust feeder insects...what your staple diet for them is. what suppliments you use. they do go bad after 6 months once opened and what if the petstore didnt dust? calcium deficiency as well as a lot of other things could have caused this. I always feel for the darts when I hear situations like this. kristy


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## asilsdorf (Sep 7, 2005)

frank6 said:


> It is a mixed tank. All the stores that would have pedialite are closed.


There aren't any drug stores or 24-hr grocery stores near you?


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

Dr.Frye still didn't e-mail back. I reasearched and found on breeders websites that leucs and azureus will get along. My staple food is dusted fruit flies and I feed phoenix worms every once in a while. I bought him from a reptile store not a pet store if that makes a difference. Most of the people that work there know what they are doing with the animals. I bought the frog the day after he came in. They didn't even have him out on display in a tank yet. If they did feed him they fed him pinhead crickets. They sell fruit flies but they don't use them to feed.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I always dust his food but if it is calcium deficency is there anything I can do with the predialite?


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

Its kinda hard to tell any thing from the pics. It sounds like place you got your frogs from knows what they are doing. If dr frye still doesn't e-mail you back you might want to take him back there. If you think about it the stress might kill him, but the path hes on now seems like he won't live that much longer. Try feeding some him the phoenix worms again to entice him to eat.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

AlexRible said:


> Its kinda hard to tell any thing from the pics. It sounds like place you got your frogs from knows what they are doing. If dr frye still doesn't e-mail you back you might want to take him back there. If you think about it the stress might kill him, but the path hes on now seems like he won't live that much longer. Try feeding some him the phoenix worms again to entice him to eat.


reptile shop or not. its probably some kind of import you have no info. to or about. i would take him back. not one to condone pet/reptile shops sales of darts.Its bad for the hobby. leucs and azureus should not be housed together, especially if opposite sex. they can interbreed and hybridizing is a no-no. having a mixed species tank creates stress....stress you may not see outwardly and lets not forget the disease issues. dr.frye wont get back to you until thursday. he gets busy and wed he is out of the office. kristy


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

lol Kristy - I highly doubt the frogs are imports. Actually I can be 100% sure the Azureus are not & 99% the luecs are not. 

The frogs either originated from another hobbyist or a wholesaler - who got them from a hobbyist. 




kristy55303 said:


> reptile shop or not. its probably some kind of import you have no info. to or about. i would take him back. not one to condone pet/reptile shops sales of darts.Its bad for the hobby. leucs and azureus should not be housed together, especially if opposite sex. they can interbreed and hybridizing is a no-no. having a mixed species tank creates stress....stress you may not see outwardly and lets not forget the disease issues. dr.frye wont get back to you until thursday. he gets busy and wed he is out of the office. kristy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

the word wholesaler just makes me cringe even more. he doesnt seem to have info. i doubt the reptile shop does. the dart is ill. it sounds like they are willing to take it back, which i would do if i did buy from a reptile shop, which i wouldnt. just my own thoughts. not funny. i guess i didnt mean actual nice imports, but wholsale/farm raised possibly...kristy


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I was laughing at your assumption that the frogs were imports (or farm raised). Please do a little research before you make a comment like that - it was out of line and not accurate. If Azureus ever did come in as imports or farm raised legally it would be a *VERY BIG DEAL* & very expensive because the demand would be high. 

There are too many variables at work here with his frogs. Attention should be paid to what to do to try and save them, not placing blame. Fact is, mistakes were made - he & hopefully others will learn from them. He can research until his heart's content regarding them - on his own. 

If you are holding off for someone to wave a magic wand and make the frogs better it isn't going to happen. If are not willing to follow any of the advice take the frog back and let the reputable "reptile business" work to save the animal.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Yes - have you tried it yet? 



frank6 said:


> I always dust his food but if it is calcium deficency is there anything I can do with the predialite?


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

melissa68 said:


> I was laughing at your assumption that the frogs were imports (or farm raised). Please do a little research before you make a comment like that - it was out of line and not accurate. If Azureus ever did come in as imports or farm raised legally it would be a *VERY BIG DEAL* & very expensive because the demand would be high.
> 
> There are too many variables at work here with his frogs. Attention should be paid to what to do to try and save them, not placing blame. Fact is, mistakes were made - he & hopefully others will learn from them. He can research until his heart's content regarding them - on his own.
> 
> If you are holding off for someone to wave a magic wand and make the frogs better it isn't going to happen. If are not willing to follow any of the advice take the frog back and let the reputable "reptile business" work to save the animal.


ok melissa . point taken no reason to be so hostile. sorry. my point is this: this frog has no known history. are we not trying to keep the history of our darts in this hobby? not darts that have been thrown around from one POSSIBLE hobbyist to "wholesaler" to reptile business to customer? we dont know the history of this or these darts whatsoever. no one has a magic wand. not even dr.frye, but he certainly has the best advice and dart knowledge i know of on dart medicine etc in the U.S. who's to say this reptile shop is reputable? sorry for upsetting you. kristy

edit: i have seen a ton of farm-raised or imported leucs lately. Unless they are being mislabeled?


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

kristy55303 said:


> the word wholesaler just makes me cringe even more. he doesnt seem to have info. i doubt the reptile shop does. the dart is ill. it sounds like they are willing to take it back, which i would do if i did buy from a reptile shop, which i wouldnt. just my own thoughts. not funny. i guess i didnt mean actual nice imports, but wholsale/farm raised possibly...kristy


The reason I said to take it back was that the shop is less than a mile away form his house. Also if the shop has dart frogs and supplies them on a regular basis they must have some experience. I seriously doubt that they are herp vets, but you might be surprised they could know more than you think and most likely they know more than a first time dart keeper. Also by thursday the animal could be dead and doing something is better than doing nothing at all.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

As I am new to darts the best advice I could give is below, hopefully some experienced dart hobbyists will chime in if any of this is grossly inappropriate:

Contact the reptile shop, which it sounds like you have already done, and ask some specific questions such as:

1. Do they have any suggestions for keeping the frog alive until a diagnosis can be made. Don't ask for a diagnosis, just some ER treatment to get nutrients into the frog and keep it kicking until you can get an answer back from Dr. Frye.

2. Can they tell you where the frog came from? I know some breeders do sell their frogs to local pet stores / reptile stores. If it is a local breeder you can ask the store to contact them incase it is contagious. The breeder may also have some better insight and if close enough to you may be willing to come to your house for a look and advice.

3. Do they have things such as small waxworms. Possibly try fruitfly larva. Do they have a product called stimulap? It contains electrolytes and an appetite stimulant dosage would depend on the size of the frog and I can't tell much from the pictures nor do I profess to have any clue of the effects of stimulap on darts. However, it has been safe to use on every other frog, lizard, salamander, etc. that I have dealt with when confronting loss of appetite and lack of activity.

One other thing you may want to keep an eye on is misting. Keeping the humidity and temperature at a proper level. Which is an obvious thing but in the flurry of having a sick animal the obvious has a way of being forgotten. 

Last but not least! Leave him alone as much as possible! Observe but not with your face to the side of the enclosure. you might want to put some paper or other visual block on 3 sides of the container to minimize his visual area and make him feel more secure. More stress on top of being sick will do no good.

I would also like to echo that this thread shouldn't have finger pointing and blame. No matter who is at fault, what mistake was made, or what was done wrong the #1 concern at this point should be helping that frog. All else can be hashed out later and doing it now just distracts people. It may also make the OP decide to not come back here and read the advice of others because you are attacking him instead of being civil and helpful.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Only importation or farm raised luecs I know of came in a few years ago and are the BG 'Banded'. 

If they are coming in, I would be interested in knowing who is breeding them & bringing them in and what their country of origin, etc... I haven't kept up to date on all the imports, but when new stuff comes in the word gets around.

Regarding being hostile - if that is what you think I am being you are mistaken. I am just tired of people regurgitating or creating misinformation on this board that they pass on as fact. Nothing is absolute here & passing off opinions as facts is not responsible.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I got my leuc from black jungle. Unfortunatley the azureus didn't make it. He died this morning. The pedialite didn't help. Should I be cleaning out my main tank now. Do I take the plants out too. He didn't die in the tank with my other frog so would this still effect him. If I get another frog how soon should I get it and I know not everyone likes the mixed tank but can I put a tinctorius in there with my leuc. Or an auratus? Thanks


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I called my reptile store and now they say that the other frog could have stressed him out but when I bought him they said they would be fine together.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

What size tank do you have? If it is any smaller than a 100 gallon I would say stay away from the mixing. 

The behaviours you saw in the PDF that died could have very well been extreme stress of being in the mixed tank. You may not see any wrestling or competition but there will always be 1 dominant frog and many times if they are the same gender it is extremely bad. 

Frogs have a form of communication (other than calling) I would assume as I think most living creatures have a way of "talking to each other". Consider having to live in your room with a room mate that verbally abuses and threatens you every second of every day and you aren't allowed to leave that room. Just because he's not hitting you doesn't mean it's pleasant. This is in effect the same thing as a small mixed tank.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

If the frog died of stress do I still go about cleaning out the tank or is it ok and not clean it out? Thanks


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Unfortunately, the situation you describe below isn't uncommon. Sometimes people tell you what you want to hear so you will buy an animal not what you need to hear. As you see, they are willing to admit it might have been a problem after the fact.

Other factors could include: The frog you got could have been stressed in shipping & since you picked it up the day after he arrived he might not have had any visible symptoms yet. 



frank6 said:


> I called my reptile store and now they say that the other frog could have stressed him out but when I bought him they said they would be fine together.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

To make the determination to clean out the tank or not here is what I would suggest:

Continue with your contact to Dr. Frye and ask him about getting a fecal done on the Luec. You may need to remove the frog from his permanent enclosure into a temporary one to obtain a good fecal but as I haven't done this please consult Dr. Frye. I think people have said that the fecals cost $18 + overnight shipping costs.

This in my opinion would be your best route to go. If the other frog died of stress no there is no reason to tear down the tank and sterilize it. If however the other frog died due to parasites that were given an opportunity to overtake it's immune system due to the stress and have spread to the other frog then you would need to break the tank down and sterilize it while treating the other frog via quarantine.

The only way to determine if there were parasites involved would be a fecal test. It would not hurt to send a clear picture of the Luec to Dr. Frye as well incase there is something visually wrong that you may not notice as they are your first frogs. If you have not disposed of the body of the deceased frog yet a picture of that one may be very valuable too. However the pictures need to be much clearer than the previous ones and since the frog is deceased this should not be an issue as you can just lay him out on some paper and take the pictures. Also multiple pictures I would think is best so that you get a view of atleast back and belly of the frog.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

It doesn't surprise me the frog died based on the information in your posts. The pedialite soak should have been given ASAP, so waiting until this morning wasn't the best choice. On the other hand - based on what you described in some emails from last night it sounded as if it was too late to save the frog - so even soaking them last night might not have saved the frog. Often, by the time we see an issue it is too late to see the frog. 

Regardless if the frog died in the tank or not, the tank & the other frog have been contaminated. Before going out and getting another frog you need to review your husbandry and keep the remaining one alive. Your question can I put another species of frog in there...no one can stop you from doing that, but the majority of people on here will suggest getting another luec when you have gotten everything stabilized & ready to add another animal. You need to learn how to take care of what you have before you get any more.

A good place to start would be posting some images from your tank and giving a good description of how it is set up. EX: Size, materials, temps, etc...



frank6 said:


> I got my leuc from black jungle. Unfortunatley the azureus didn't make it. He died this morning. The pedialite didn't help. Should I be cleaning out my main tank now. Do I take the plants out too. He didn't die in the tank with my other frog so would this still effect him. If I get another frog how soon should I get it and I know not everyone likes the mixed tank but can I put a tinctorius in there with my leuc. Or an auratus? Thanks


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

I also want to add that even if you break down the tank and clean it without fecaling the other frog you aren't doing any good. If there are parasites present you will just be reintroducing a sick frog into a clean environment and effectively starting it all over again.

I do hate to agree but Melissa is right about someone telling you what you want to hear to make the sale instead of telling you what you need to hear. I have even personally experienced this and that is why I do alot of my own research and I even sometimes will ask people who are breeders or sell the animal I'm looking at but make clear to them that I'm not set on buying from them. Of course I always ask the person I'm buying from but I try to get as much information as possible from people who are outside the sale as they do not have a personal interest in my purchase.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

My brother buried the frog already so I can't get pictures. The leuc seems to have the same behvior since I first got him. Should I quarrantine him anyway. Thanks


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

Frank,

Please don't take offense to this but you are asking the same question over and over.

I think my answers were pretty instructive. You can choose to do nothing and take a chance or just wait until you can get in touch with Dr. Frye and ask him how to go about getting a fecal done. Until you have any testing done no answer is going to be right or wrong.

So the answer to "what next?" is: Get in contact with Dr. Frye about getting fecals done on the frog you have. Do nothing else out of the ordinary until you have done that. As in leave the frog where it is, feed it (making sure you are dusting the food with sups), and keep the environment correct temperature / humidity.

That is the what next IF you want to do anything. If you don't. then go about normal business but as stated before you should hold off on purchases and just make sure the 1 guy left is doing ok. If you do go against all the advice that has been typed atleast take 1 piece of advice and get the same species / morph. Do not mix again as I have a feeling your tank is WAY too small and may even be too small for 2 frogs depending on who sold you what and what information you were given.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

... a better what's next is going over your husbandry. Most issues new hobbyist have are related to improper setup; too small a tank, too much ventilation, improper substrate, etc... 

I suggested you post pictures of your terrarium and tell us about how you set it up, not post a picture of a dead frog.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

melissa68 said:


> ... a better what's next is going over your husbandry. Most issues new hobbyist have are related to improper setup; too small a tank, too much ventilation, improper substrate, etc...
> 
> I suggested you post pictures of your terrarium and tell us about how you set it up, not post a picture of a dead frog.


What Melissa said is correct about "going over your husbandry". Fecal testing would be included in this but wouldn't be helpful if you have the frog in the wrong setup completely.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

I can't take pictures right now. So... My tank is a zoo-med 12x12x18. I have little aquariam rocks for the plants, then substrate seperater and then coconut fiber bedding. There are two plants(peperomias) There is an exo-terra backround siliconed in so no bugs or frogs can get back there. I have a water bowl, and a coconut shelter. There is also a wooden log thingy in there. The humidity is between the 80's-100 but will occasionaly dip into the 70's. Temps are in the 70's low in the morning mid-high the rest of the day. I always dust the food with the stuff that was reccomended by you guys. Thanks


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Just for future reference, for everyone. If you email my brother at , say, 9pm Tuesday night, do not expect to get a response until at least 9am Thursday morning, as he does not work after 6pm eastern time, and is closed on Wednesdays. 

Rich


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## vivariman (Sep 26, 2007)

Wait, so the Azureus was in with the leucomelas?


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

frank- listen to what melissa and dwdragon are telling you. you are asking the same question over and over and for some reason expect to hear a different answer. 

if your azeurus died there is a good chance the leuc will die as well if you don't change anything. i am sick of people doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. if you always do what you've always done, you will get what you've always gotton.


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## frank6 (Apr 22, 2008)

If the azureus died of a disease and I am going to quarrantine the leuc in the same tank that the azureus died in should I clean it out with bleach first just to eliminate any disease that is in the quarrantine? If the leuc has the same thing and has no symptoms yet is there anything I can do in addition to quarrantine and a fecal? Thanks


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

quote "If the azureus died of a disease and I am going to quarrantine the leuc in the same tank that the azureus died in should I clean it out with bleach first just to eliminate any disease that is in the quarrantine? end quote
just think about it, if you don't clean it, why would the parasites/bacteria/fungus/whatever they have go away? 

you need to actually treat the frog. putting the frog in a sterile environment and diagnosing it isn't enough to cure it. for whatever it has you need to fine a cure or trreat it accordingly.


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## vivariman (Sep 26, 2007)

vivariman said:


> Wait, so the Azureus was in with the leucomelas?


Sorry about this, for some reason my computer at first only showed the first 4 posts...


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Get the remaining frog tested. It may not have anything but what you may have is a case of mixed species tank where the one from was stressing the other.

Id get a fecal run before tearing everything down and cleaning it.


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