# Forest God



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

*Forest God*

This thread...http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/85501-forest-endor-build.html...gave me the idea to start this project. I really liked the idea of using fantasy elements in a diorama-style planted terrarium. 

This movie scene was an important source too...






Wasn't it cathartic to watch the ents smash those tree-killing orcs?

I have looked for a few other references for a similar kind of idea. Celtic mythology implicates a number of tree or forest deities...

List of Celtic deities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, this project will involve building a scene around a human-like tree form. I have a start on it with this articulated wooden doll made of manzanita branches...










I still need to make the arms and a head somehow. I'd really like to use a terra cotta head, but I don't have access to ceramic studio right now. I will fasten all of the joints with stainless steel nuts, bolts and washers. 

I don't want to copy the Tolkien cinema ents, but I liked the way the long legs of the animated ents looked, so I am incorporating that. Proportionately longer legs create the illusion of greater height. 

I don't know what that means that I'm a grown man playing with dolls, but this is art and science so it's OK 

I'll have more pictures along with ideas for the enclosure and planting on the way.


----------



## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing it! Lord of the Rings is one of my favorite movies and books. So many amazing things to those movies! You got the Apple monitor thing going too! Keep us posted! I'm so jealous!

I can't wait to do my next build. As of now, I'm really hoping to have something original. I have a lot of it planned in my head and on paper. I just have to put it into action towards the end of the year. I'm hoping no one beats me to some of my ideas. Kinda silly, but it's nice to have some originality instead of just following the paradigm or copying someone else's build. I'm not going themed by any means, but several ideas definitely have Lord of the Rings as an inspiration(No tree ents). Lol.

-Chris


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

kitcolebay said:


> Looking forward to seeing it! Lord of the Rings is one of my favorite movies and books. So many amazing things to those movies! You got the Apple monitor thing going too! Keep us posted! I'm so jealous!
> 
> I can't wait to do my next build. As of now, I'm really hoping to have something original. I have a lot of it planned in my head and on paper. I just have to put it into action towards the end of the year. I'm hoping no one beats me to some of my ideas. Kinda silly, but it's nice to have some originality instead of just following the paradigm or copying someone else's build. I'm not going themed by any means, but several ideas definitely have Lord of the Rings as an inspiration(No tree ents). Lol.
> 
> -Chris


Thanks! If I can pull this off I will try to do more. I look forward to seeing yours too.

It will be fun to work on the problems of plant selection and growing.

Some other really excellent video that you must see for inspiration in the realms of miniaturization and weird fantasy are the short animated films of the Quay Brothers. _The Comb_ is one of my favorites...






Here's a couple of quick pictures to show the joint articulations in this piece. The knees are just these lap joints...










I rounded them off with 1/2" radius circles so that they can bend freely.










I'll drill holes through the circle centres and affix them with the nuts, bolts and washers.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I made a little more headway with this. It still needs arms and a head.










I put it in my 30 High fish tank just to check the proportions. I didn't think that this tank would be big enough for a good effect, but it actually looks pretty good.










The form, however, looks a little too tall. I think I will take a couple of inches off the legs.


----------



## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

That looks very good! The legs and stance are perfect. I don't think you need shorter legs...you need a taller tank! Nice job!


----------



## Neodoxa (Oct 12, 2006)

This is shaping up to be a pretty cool build. Love the legs and stance so far.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks. I have a lot more to do. The arms will take a while. I want to have something like a ball-and-socket joint for the shoulders so that I can move them into different positions.

I also want to develop a full planted scene in the setup. I might use some more props and try to illustrate some kind of story or parable. I will have to think about it more.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm back to work on this...making the arms.


----------



## Hak (Jul 10, 2005)

HAH! His stance reminds me very much of Treebeard! Can't wait to see how this turns out.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Hak said:


> HAH! His stance reminds me very much of Treebeard! Can't wait to see how this turns out.


Thanks. I have a lot more work to do if I want to make it look like something.

Here's another shorter Quay Brothers video. It is only a few minutes long and basically a music video for a His Name is Alive tune. I like this one a lot. You can make anything spooky and weird if you put a rabbit in it...


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

For your information, it is an action figure not a doll. 

Here it is with arms. It still needs a head.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh my gosh, I'm so offended! I can't believe you posted him up totally naked! Where's his bark, man?


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> Oh my gosh, I'm so offended! I can't believe you posted him up totally naked! Where's his bark, man?


Just be glad it's not anatomically correct.

Here it is set up quick in my 30 X High with plants. It needs a head.










To get it to stand up sturdy I will need to mount plastic plate to the bottom of one or both feet.


----------



## 2point0 (Dec 28, 2011)

This is an awesome idea! I am looking forward to seeing more.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks! I'll keep working on it.


----------



## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


> For your information, it is an action figure not a doll.


Lol. 

Very nice work so far! Very cool!


----------



## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

get some moss growing on there and throw princess mononoke on the tv and voila


----------



## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

You're going to string it up like a marionette so that you can terrorize the inhabitants Godzilla-style, right?


----------



## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

winstonamc said:


> get some moss growing on there and throw princess mononoke on the tv and voila


I was thinking more obsolete Bender.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I do plan to plan some mini orchids, mosses and _Tillandsia_ on it. Now I wish that I had made it quite a bit smaller. It is going to be about 18" tall and it will will be difficult to get the scale right for a diorama scene with a smaller enclosure.


----------



## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Looks good, kinda like it without the head lol


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is another movie that is a great source of inspiration for some of these ideas...






I watched this just the other night--really creative artwork in this movie.


----------



## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

Fantastical, if that is a word!! I agree with Will, I like it without a head - something magical about it. Maybe a plant for a head? What about a Tillandsia seleriana ? Sort of a whimsy look to it. Anyway - great job!


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Duff said:


> Fantastical, if that is a word!! I agree with Will, I like it without a head - something magical about it. Maybe a plant for a head? What about a Tillandsia seleriana ? Sort of a whimsy look to it. Anyway - great job!


That is another idea and it would convey something a little different.

I also wondered about a head with no face or no eyes.


----------



## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

personally I think it would look best with the head just being a rough, uneven and broken shaft at the end. The form does itself justice without needing to actually carve out a head


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'll figure out something. 

I might need to join our nearby ceramics studio. I can imagine a lot of cool stuff like this to make with clay.


----------



## Wings (Apr 1, 2012)

Any updates? 

It must be nice having all those awesome plants to play with and choose from! Keep bustin this out! I can't wait to see the foliage you are going to throw in here. Which reminds me, I need to get some more plants from you...

Do you have access to any small tendril like wood? Maybe use that as accents for the fingers or beard, etc?


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Wings said:


> Any updates?
> 
> It must be nice having all those awesome plants to play with and choose from! Keep bustin this out! I can't wait to see the foliage you are going to throw in here. Which reminds me, I need to get some more plants from you...
> 
> Do you have access to any small tendril like wood? Maybe use that as accents for the fingers or beard, etc?


Hey I'll be happy to send more plants. I have run out of space here and I'm trying to make more room.

I thought about using anodized aluminum wire to make the fingers and hands.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is a quick bookmark for more creepy nature art...

Sculpture by Scott Radke


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Not quite my cup of tea...... 

Any updates?


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Yeah that's pretty weird stuff.

I don't know if I am going to finish this project. I have some other concepts in mind that seem better.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm still picking away at this.

I made this quick concept drawing the other night. This figure would be made from manzanita and other stuff and suspended from the bottom or the top of the enclosure probably with acrylic rod.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I've seen hedges like that, using wire for the shape covered in vining and creeping plants. You could carve something like epiweb or tree fern into the shape you want, then get plants/moss to cover it...

Edit: I'm living vicariously through your builds. I don't have the space to experiment. So lots of photos please


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

jacobi said:


> I've seen hedges like that, using wire for the shape covered in vining and creeping plants. You could carve something like epiweb or tree fern into the shape you want, then get plants/moss to cover it...


Yeah I would definitely mean to _avoid_ having the viewer think of topiary.

I imagine a figure like that following the same kind of planting scheme and general orientation of branches as the feature that I have in my 12 X 12 setup. I just used manzanita branches with tightly-wrapped layers of sphagnum moss for planting in there.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

So nothing like this? 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1215295/The-hedge-shaped-like-Formula-1-car.html

Www.art-sci.blogspot.com/2010/11/art-of-living-plant-sculptures.html?m=1

Sorry. Couldn't help myself


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Yeah definitely no not that!


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Any updates?


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

jacobi said:


> Any updates?


Still workin' on it...


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Hi everybody.

I haven't been back here in a long time. I lost all my login information (for every site that I use!) and I also had some other stuff come up.

I had some plant sales before my computer snafus. I hope that everybody received everything in good order(?). I did not see any unresolved emails or anything about that. Please PM me if there is still anything pending.

I have some continuing projects and new stuff stuff on the way, so I'll have more pictures and stuff pretty soon.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Welcome back!!! We need updates


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks Jake!

I will try to post some update pictures and more ideas. 

I need to ask for some advice about materials, especially epoxy.

I got another magazine article published. This one is in the latest _Amazonas_...


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm still working on this project. It's slow.

Here's a quick bookmark for more creepy fantasy creature art... R O B O T P E N C I L: Creatures


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> I'm still working on this project. It's slow.
> 
> Here's a quick bookmark for more creepy fantasy creature art... R O B O T P E N C I L: Creatures


I just found this thread, sounds interesting...I like these outside the box builds.

You've seen the dryad thread right? If not might be some inspiration there. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/95116-dryad-viv-concept-life-size-girl-box.html

Kinda stalled due to lack of funds/job...but I think I may start an indiegogo funding campaign...Seen lots of other projects no more valid then mine get some funding.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's the latest for this project, a new figure that I made.










You can see the stainless steel screw heads in this picture. I will countersink those and cover them up.

I originally intended to use this bisque doll head with this figure, but it didn't work. I have another idea in mind and I'll use the doll head with another new figure.


----------



## otterblue (Jun 18, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> I made a little more headway with this. It still needs arms and a head.
> 
> 
> That's funny. I dont know if it was inadvertently funny but it still made me smile.


----------



## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

I would like to +1 the idea of another piece of wood on top. 

I think that is the most ent like way of doing it. 

I like the branching on the new model, but liked the very ent like posture of the first one. 

Just my .02 from a forest god expert 

I actually used to paint the little orc models....would be cool to surround him and plant this thing.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

otterblue said:


> hydrophyte said:
> 
> 
> > I made a little more headway with this. It still needs arms and a head.
> ...


----------



## dgibbons1 (Jul 25, 2013)

I loved the earlier creature i would have bought him in a heart beat!


----------



## SDRiding (Jul 31, 2012)

I love the creativity in your builds. Looking forward to seeing this one finished! Personally, I would avoid two part epoxies in a vivarium. Many people use them without noticeable ill effects, but it is impossible to mix the epoxies so that no excess reactants remain.

Recent study done on epoxies and other materials. I don't know the validity of the study, but it does give pause for concern.
Comparative acute toxicity of lea... [Environ Sci Pollut Res Int. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

SDRiding said:


> I love the creativity in your builds. Looking forward to seeing this one finished! Personally, I would avoid two part epoxies in a vivarium. Many people use them without noticeable ill effects, but it is impossible to mix the epoxies so that no excess reactants remain.
> 
> Recent study done on epoxies and other materials. I don't know the validity of the study, but it does give pause for concern.
> Comparative acute toxicity of lea... [Environ Sci Pollut Res Int. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI


That's interesting. What do you think about the Polygem? I understand those kinds of products have been in use in zoos and museums with live animals for a long time. I think I really do need epoxy for some of these shapes. I don't know how else to put a hard coat on a foam form. And most of these setups will not have any livestock, just plants. I might use some mantises in some of the enclosures.


----------



## punctata (Jan 31, 2011)

Just saw this. I am working on a fantasy book and I do my own illustrations. Treefolks are in it and your treefolk action figure is cool. Not sure if you finished the face, but if you want something to reference check out my drawing.


----------



## otterblue (Jun 18, 2008)

This whole project is very cool and creative. My post about it being inadvertently funny was just about the line (paraphrasing): making headway, going to make head next.


I just don't want you to misconstrue my post - I just liked the play on words. I think the project itself is really intriguing. =)


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is a quick placeholder for this page that phender linked. These photos show growth habits for a lot of orchids and other plants....

Aaron Matsumoto's favorite photos and videos | Flickr


----------



## nilraf (Mar 14, 2010)

Cool idea, I love the idea that your Viv can also incorporate art! Update?


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have finished the figure for the bisque doll head. The whole thing is about 11" tall. Now I just need to get it planted and in a growout setup.

It's pretty creepy.


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

That is creepy!

I think you should do a Ticket Oak.

BHinden : Treyvon taylors reincarnation future....ticket oak #espn http://t.co/GwZkB6AS | Twicsy, the Twitter Pics Engine


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

oldlady25715 said:


> That is creepy!
> 
> I think you should do a Ticket Oak.
> 
> BHinden : Treyvon taylors reincarnation future....ticket oak #espn http://t.co/GwZkB6AS | Twicsy, the Twitter Pics Engine


Well what is wrong with what I already have? I don't want to just go copying other stuff.


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Your's is better for poison dart frogs for sure. Some mint terriblis with a blacklight would be cool. Do mints "glow " under a blacklight --I wonder. 

Its very artistic. Don't ruin it with broms tho, put some scary gothic looking vines trending up and down it. Maybe even get some slim mold growing on the face.

A ticket oak would probably be better suited for a pacman frog viv or something. I guess I would just really like a ticket oak--that commercial successfully tapped into my psyche. 

You could go hellraiser and add some nails?


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Like I said I don't want to copy other stuff. I don't see any point in doing that. 

I'm going to plant this one with some mosses and real small ferns & orchids.

I'm not putting any livestock in the enclosure with this. It will just be a planted scene.


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

hydrophyte said:


> I'm not putting any livestock in the enclosure with this. It will just be a planted scene.


hmmm, then why keep dendroboard in suspense? The "livestock" is always the pinnacle of any tank furniture consideration.


----------



## SDRiding (Jul 31, 2012)

Looking good! I'm sure polygem is safe, didn't mean to cause unnecessary worry. What will you be using it for in the scene



hydrophyte said:


> That's interesting. What do you think about the Polygem? I understand those kinds of products have been in use in zoos and museums with live animals for a long time. I think I really do need epoxy for some of these shapes. I don't know how else to put a hard coat on a foam form. And most of these setups will not have any livestock, just plants. I might use some mantises in some of the enclosures.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

SDRiding said:


> Looking good! I'm sure polygem is safe, didn't mean to cause unnecessary worry. What will you be using it for in the scene


Well it is interesting that they observed more leaching from the epoxy in comparison with the other plastics. Did you see that the samples were in a water bath at 50C? I hope that there would be less likelihood at room temperature. 

I'm not using any epoxy with this one, but I have some others planned that will involve carved foam shapes with epoxy coat.

Here's another view of this piece...


----------



## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

I agree, that is creepy. Reminds me of this:


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's another one that I have pretty much ready for planting. This one is about 15" tall.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> Here's another one that I have pretty much ready for planting. This one is about 15" tall.


Ok I'm officially transferring my title of creepiest viv design ever (from mannequins in dryad viv), To hydrophyte... Those things look scary!!! 

But very cool... I love seeing people go outside the box like this!


----------



## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


> Here's another one that I have pretty much ready for planting. This one is about 15" tall.


That is beyond cool. What kind of skull is that?

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I hope it will look a lot cooler with plants. It's going to take nine months or more to grow in after I get it planted.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> I hope it will look a lot cooler with plants. It's going to take nine months or more to grow in after I get it planted.


I bet it comes out pretty good. Have you thought about incorporating some hygrolon/epi web into those figures? (If I missed it sawy)


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> I bet it comes out pretty good. Have you thought about incorporating some hygrolon/epi web into those figures? (If I missed it sawy)


I might try some Hygrolon. I get pretty good results just wrapping sphagnum moss on tight with sewing thread and this makes a more natural appearance faster.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> I might try some Hygrolon. I get pretty good results just wrapping sphagnum moss on tight with sewing thread and this makes a more natural appearance faster.


Ya I'm not sure what you'd do with epi web on that, but I figured include the suggestion anyways  ...But ya hygrolon may have a place and sphag wrap is a good call IMO too. Lookin forward to seein this done


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Another bookmark for me...more fantasy art... the fine art creatures of Amanda Louise Spayd: art


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have this thing coming along. I made this dog head with regular art clay. I'm going to use a latex mold + mother mold to cast it with epoxy. I'll set glass eyes in the cavities with a little Zoopoxy.



















I intend to mount the finished resin piece on a planted horizontal branch feature like that other one that I did, then give a year or so to grow in.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Wow. Nice sculpting skills


----------



## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Very impressive


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks. I hope that the molding and casting will go OK. It will be tricky to get around the ears.


----------



## dgibbons1 (Jul 25, 2013)

I love your horizontal branch still one of my favs ever the way it Looks so natural. Adding the sculpting will add a different but very cool dimension


----------



## Kas (Oct 6, 2013)

INSANE!!! In a very good way!


----------



## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

hydrophyte said:


> Thanks. I hope that the molding and casting will go OK. It will be tricky to get around the ears.


I wish you the best of luck when doing that 

Just remember, it will alway be worth it in the end


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Quick bookmark... 

Tessa Farmer


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

hydrophyte said:


> Quick bookmark...
> 
> Tessa Farmer


Wow. Sometimes I see an artist's work and am completely blown away. That's amazing.


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks. I did not know this artist. Amazing! Her little world of faires and insects fascinates and upsets at the same time.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Quick bookmark... 

Flickriver: Most interesting photos tagged with elaphoglossum


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Another quick bookmark...

Old Junk Repurposed Into Playfully Detailed Bug Sculptures - My Modern Metropolis

You'd have to do a lot of digging to find all those little pieces.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Quick bookmarks for a couple of artists' blog sites...

Laurie Beth Zuckerman: LAURIE BETH ZUCKERMAN "MOTHER OF SORROWS" HOME ALTAR INSTALLATION

valeria dalmon


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Bookmark...

19 Wild Costumes From European Pagan Rituals Still Practiced Today | DeMilked

Charles Fréger


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Bookmark...

Tiffany Bozic


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Bookmark...

Furahan Biology and Allied Matters


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Bookmark...

Swedish Folk Tales: Polly Lawson, John Bauer, Holger Lundburgh: 9780863154577: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## Adam R (Jun 26, 2013)

creepy

10 letters


----------



## fullmonti (May 10, 2013)

I will have to show this thread to a friend of mine. He thinks I'm eccentric. I'm feeling a little boring at the moment.


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Bookmark...

MIZUMA ART GALLERY


----------



## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Sooooo, what are ya gonna do with all those bookmarks? Something foresty or maybe god-like???






John


----------



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Sorry. I just wanted to put them here where I wouldn't lose them. They are all art references.


----------



## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

No need to be sorry, I actually have really enjoyed seeing the unique art you have found. I have clicked every bookmark you have posted There are some true treasures in there! 

I was just curious if they have sparked any new ideas.

John


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

hydrophyte said:


> Sorry. I just wanted to put them here where I wouldn't lose them. They are all art references.


You should look into the Evernote web clipper.


----------



## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Evernote or OneNote is a good suggestion. Computer note taking is easily one of my top 5 most under appreciated capabilities of computing. It is one of those things you think everyone should know about but few do. Most importantly you can create a note book and make it publicly viewable. A big advantage to that is you can cross reference without duplicating work. So say you also visit plantedtank.net or another one of the dart frog forums we are not allowed to mention lol. 

I used Evernote and OneNote extensively while keeping slight tabs on a few other options. 

If you already have MS office OneNote has always done this same function copy anything from anywhere and even grab screen shots and it automatically places a link to the source. Plus it has extensive drawing tools and of course text. It even completes calculations for you among a ton of other features. My problem with OneNote was that until recently it did not have any android support, but now it does. OneNote is behind in the mobile world but quickly closing the gap. It is free on mobile with some limitations but ultimately if you want to really fly on multiple devices you are going to want to own office. I and pretty much everyone I know needs office anyway so we have it. 

Evernote is nowhere near as good or integrated as OneNote on a computer but its a little ahead on mobile. And Evernote is more cross platform. You can run it on almost any OS you would use. However I found Evernote fairly limiting as they want to try to push you to buy the product if you want to do a lot of what really makes note taking powerful like collaboration and they don't even let you seamlessly move between the cloud and local storage. It cost half the price of MS office 365 but of course it only gives you the note taking none of the other office products.


----------

