# Imitator vs Vanzolinii's vs Fantasticus



## Elf_Ascetic (Jan 31, 2009)

Hey,

I was hoping you guys can give me some advice. I have this 74 gallon vertical tank (in cm its 50x80x90 lxwxh). I'm planning on a couple of Azureus on the bottom, but I'm in doubt of what frog would live in the upper ranges. There are four possible options:
- Vanzolinii, my own favoritie, quite expensive though. (about 75€ a piece)
- Banded Fantasticus
- Banded Imitators (that imitate the banded Fantasticus)
- Nominat Imitators. (my girlfriends favorite)

I'm looking for a species that is highly visible, bold, out in the open. It's a pre when they're keepable in small groups (1.3 probably, or 2.2 for the vanzo's). Thereby, the species shouldn't be agressive, should display intresting behavior, and should be relative easy to breed.

So, which of the species/variant would you advice to me, and why?

_For the mixing naysayers: I'm expierenced with Ranitomeya behaviour in mixed tanks, and won't introduce al the species at once. The tank is big enough, I think, and is planted with enough hiding spaces._


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

My my experience I would go with the imitators. The vanzo are also nice. The banded fants are more of a leaf litter frog and may be shy and I am not sure on the banded inters, nut if you want visibilty and interaction your best bet would be a nice size group of imitators


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## BBoyette (Mar 9, 2009)

You def couldnt go wrong with the imitators....I would get the banded's personally, the vanzo's are one of my favs also..I think either would be more than happy in a big 74g setup.


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

I have seen all three frogs you ask about all over their tanks. 
Also wondering what do you plan on doing with any froglets that morph in the tank with the azureus? Do you expect the froglets that want smaller food items to stay up top?
The Imis and Fants I have seen spend quite a bit of time on the floor.............

" For the mixing naysayers: I'm expierenced with Ranitomeya behaviour in mixed tanks, and won't introduce al the species at once. The tank is big enough, I think, and is planted with enough hiding spaces. "
How about some pictures and more evidence than word of mouth............If such I would doubt you would come over to the main forum in the states asking for help and more trying to stir the mixing debate?

Considering a few of these are newer frogs to the states I would recommend asking you more experienced froggers over in the EU.


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

You might find this thread helpful.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/26104-mixed-species-tank.html

I have a tank set up with imitators in it (intermedius) and I VERY rarely see them on the floor (maybe a couple times a year).


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

Just a question on your imis? How often or do you have any morph in the tanks? If so where do the little ones reside most of the time? So with larger tincs on the floor which can climb......where are the froglets most of the time?
Also a thought here............a trend in the hobby on this side of the pond is to have more leaf liter on the floor...................


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

FWIW I have 2 imis and they are ALL over their tank(20 G Vert). I see them on the leaf litter every single day.


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

evolvstll said:


> Just a question on your imis? How often or do you have any morph in the tanks? If so where do the little ones reside most of the time? So with larger tincs on the floor which can climb......where are the froglets most of the time?
> Also a thought here............a trend in the hobby on this side of the pond is to have more leaf liter on the floor...................


Jason, if your question is directed at me...
They morph out about every 3 months, and spend there first couple weeks in the brom they morphed in, then eventually move to a different brom. I usually pull them after that. I have leaf litter in their viv, but they don't seem to spend much time in it. The viv is set up so that there is a lot of wood above the leaf litter, and I have a very large population of microfauna in my tank which might make them less likely to go foraging down in the bottom of the tank. I've never kept tincs. If your question wasn't directed at me then please disregard. 
-Mark


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## Elf_Ascetic (Jan 31, 2009)

Ok, I will post some pictures soon as I have the bigger broms in, if that helps you answer my questions.

I don't want to restart the mixing debate all over. As everyone can see for themselves, the oppions about that differ widely. This forum is most anti-mixing I've ever seen, and that says something. In europe mixed displays are much more common, and there is a lot of knowledge about it. A combination of Tincs and Thumbnails (except for Retics of course) is fairly common, with positive results. Anyhow, I don't want to start the discussion again, I've read almost everything there's to say about mixing, and have talked to quite a lot expierenced froggers. The combination of these species is done. a lot. And if it goes wrong, I'll be the first to set the frogs apart.

I've posted my question on some other websites as well, to get some more replies. 

I repeat myself, I don't want to stir the discussion about mixing, I just wanted to know what of these four frogs is the most visible, the most fun to watch, and the easiest to breed. Can you please answer that?

Thanks for those who have answered my question. Is it true that banded fants are more shy then the banded imi's?


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Elf_Ascetic said:


> Is it true that banded fants are more shy then the banded imi's?


IME yes. Fantasticus in general are more reclusive then imitators ['intermedius'].


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## Elf_Ascetic (Jan 31, 2009)

Tnx, Sports_Doc. No Fantasticus it is.

Here are some pics, for those who asked. Only some ficus has yet to be planted, but there is time enough to grow in.

The sizes of the viv (in cm) 80x50x90.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Very nice! I do not have these but I've seen quite a few posts and spoken to some folks who own them - the vanzos are supposedly quite bold. From what I've heard I think they would be my first choice! Excellent display!


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## Ronm (Oct 1, 2006)

I'd go for the vanzo's. 
I've got them mixed with Azureus and both species lay...they seldom see eath other and when they do it's never a problem.
My vanzo's are quite visible and have nice behavior. I can here when they're laying eggs. You can pull the eggs or leave it up to them. It both works out fine.
You can mail me if you want. I live in Amersfoort.
Ron


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

Ronm said:


> I'd go for the vanzo's.
> I've got them mixed with Azureus and both species lay...they seldom see eath other and when they do it's never a problem.
> My vanzo's are quite visible and have nice behavior. I can here when they're laying eggs. You can pull the eggs or leave it up to them. It both works out fine.
> You can mail me if you want. I live in Amersfoort.
> Ron


Great to have an experienced Frogger from over the pond posting. I was wondering about the froglets being affected by the larger frogs if they were to spend time near or on the floor.
Those vanzo's are impressive frogs. There were a couple of pairs available at NWFF, however they were all presold. From the individuals over here that have them they seem to be very prolific.
Nice tank set up, let us know what you end up going with and how it works out. I can see the possibility of these mixed tanks becoming more common over here.


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## Ronm (Oct 1, 2006)

Whenever I see a tiny frog on the bottom of my tank I capture it to give it a better change. Lot's of food that is. I don't think it'll become a meal for the azureus.
I keep them in a lager viv. 80 cm high by 60
Ron


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