# Emersed Cryptocorynes



## Guest (Dec 4, 2006)

Does anyone here have any experience with emersed Cyrptocoryne culture?

I've read this site, http://www.nationaalherbarium.nl/Crypto ... howto.html
pretty informative. But I would like to get some first hand opinions.


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## rbrightstone (Apr 14, 2004)

I have a plastic shoebox full of them getting them ready to put into a large show tank I am putting together. I used standard plant substrate form the pet store in the bottom about 2" deep and place a dozen bulbs in it. Then placed the whole thing under T8 lights. They have been in there for 6 weeks and have a very lush growth going. I think one of them is even sending out a bloom spike. By the way, I only have about 3"of water in the bottom also. 
Keep the humidity very high around them, as they will wilt very easily. Mine ar kept with an upside down 10 gal tank over them until they go into their tank. I learned this from a friend whose father raise's killi fish.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2006)

Cool!!! Where do you show them, and which species/hybrids have you got?
I recently ordered a few from e-bay
C. undulata, C. affinis, C. pontederiifolia, C. spiralis, C. beketii, and C. lingua
I've also got C. wendtii, which got me started on them.


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## rbrightstone (Apr 14, 2004)

They are going into a large tank in my shop in Indianapolis. I am really a jewler, but have been selling frogs in my store for about 2 years. I am finally doing a large tank for display and am going all out on it. I will post some pictures when I get it done. The only crypt I am growing like this are the 3 different colors of C. wendtii. If you get to Indy, stop by and see the tank, my shop is The Mind's Eye.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2006)

Thanks!!!

I can't believe no one else is growing Crypts.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I don't know if I can say that I'm growing crypts. But I do have some species growing both in aquarium and my frog terrarium. _C. beckettii _"petchii", _C. wendtii_ "Mi Oya", _C. x willisii_ and _C. moehlmannii_. 

They are in my vittatus tank, bottom substrate is Preis Lavaplan, sort of light gravel made of black lava rock or something, there's about half a centimetre of water on the bottom of the tank and that's it. They are doing nicely, but there's not much light over that tank right now so no blooming yet. I'll fix that when I get the actual vivs done.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2006)

I've been reading that they really like thier shade. Not sure how much light they need to bloom.
I'm not even sure C. wendtii is prone to blooming.
THanks for the info!!!


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

They do prefer some light and my tank doesn't have enough. Jan Bastmeijer wrotes that: "Two or three fluorescent tubes over your tank for 12 hours daily will make most species flower. Some species will not flower in these conditions because they need more light, e.g. _C. crispatula_." _C. wendtii_ should bloom too if the conditions are right, here's a link to the wendtii page of Bastmeijers website.

Crypts are really fun plants and I can't wait to get my vivs done (looks like it will happen some time around spring since I've had some delays with getting the actual tanks here) so I can really start growing plants too. Since I've had aquariums for 17 years, I love to use aquarium plants (or plants grown in aquariums, since many of them aren't truly aquatic), both in aquariums, in my room and in terrariums.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Cesar,

I’ve grown them emersed before, but mine didn’t do much more than stay the way they were. In fact I gave a covered fishbowl that had laterite mixed with wet soil and a small group of C. wendtii to a friend over five years ago. The last time I saw it, it still looked the same as when I gave it to my friend. No growth other than renewing its leaves.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2006)

Currently I have my C. wendtii recieving 120 watts of compact flourescent light at 6500K.
And some mottled sunlight in the morning, how much depends on time of year. However, they have no soil. So maybe if I give them some soil they will flower.
Thanks guys!
Chris, maybe you remember when I got my Crypts. At first there was a boom in growth. Since then, they have been pretty stable. But no flowers 

:evil: I want that flower!!!


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I am growing cryps for vivs. They are fairly easy to grow, but i find if you mist alot, their leaves get limp.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Crypts grown emersed*

Homies,

Crypts, along with Anubias, are my favorite aroids! Although I must say I find it curious that you guys grow these (and jewel orchids), as they are not neotropical, and dart frogs are. C'est le terrarieme..."

RAIN said "But I do have some species growing both in aquarium and my frog terrarium. C. beckettii "petchii", C. wendtii "Mi Oya", C. x willisii and C. moehlmannii."

That is a good place to start, and I am not familiar with moehlmannii. You could also try cordata, which gets large, or the very similar Lagenandra species.

(INCIDENTALLY--in case you care, the neotropical Echinodorus species are easier, but most get bigger!) 

Some tips on Crypt care--and some of this, except substrate, applies to the epiphytic Anubias as well:

--Make it EASY on yourself--order from a supplier who ships emersed plants, or get to Petco or Petsmart on plant day and grab yours before they submerge it! Remember, most aquarium plants are grown emersed, but those leaves wil start to die once submerged. The plant is amphibious--NOT the individual leaves! I prefer to to start with small, but vigorous specimens. You do NOT want a plant that looks good now--rather, you want a plant that will adapt to YOUR conditions. 

--Plant in a friable, moist mix; here is one place where the plant can be waterlogged. Go ahead, plant in mud or emersed in your water section;

--Feed: With an animal safe or aquarium fertilizer--sparingly.

--Humidity: A must. These are not houseplants! Cover at least part of the tank. Personally, I find some misting to be okay. Are you sure it was the misting that causes limp leaves?

--WARMTH: For these and Anubias, temps should be above 20c/68f. The high range is 90+ (That's another reason why I don't see the mix with Dendrobatids...)

--Light: These do not need high light to grow--but would appreciate moderate light to flower. If you can flower an Episcia or keep a Cryptanthus (bromeliad) in good color, you have more than enough light for Cryptocorynes.

Hope this helps.

Peace,

The Groundhog


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2007)

Thanks!!!!
I bought a few species from a Malaysian grower through e-bay. I got myself 
C. lingua, C. undulata, C. pontederifolia, C. bekettii, C. spiralis, and one other whose name escapes me now. Got them leafless, and are now all growing in nicely. The seller sent me two or three rhizomes of each, and so I feel that I made out like a bandit!!! They are growing in my 29 gallon vivarium, which I keep humid, but airy at the same time.
















and I have concentrated all the Crypts around here:









http://stores.ebay.com/AquaticMagic_Aqu ... idZ2QQtZkm


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## Delawarejim (Jan 3, 2007)

Come visit fellow emersed Crypt. enthusiasts at 
http://forum.aquatic-gardeners.org/
and 
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/

You'll find alot on the On plant physiology & emersed culture, Crypt nuts, and North American Cryptocoryne Society forums that discuss them all the time.

Hope to see you there.

Cheers.
Jim


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Groundhog - its regular practice to use plants that are not from the same range as our frogs, or even neotropical, because our choices in plants are highly limited. I love Echinodorus, but as you mentioned, they get huge... I'm growing out one species for a large 60+ gallon tank, and I still think it won't have enough room... the Crypts and Anubias are better alternatives. We are just so limited by size and conditions of our tanks, that while our neotropical choices are expanding, we still stick with a lot of "exotics" as they have been in culture longer or fit our needs better. I constantly use Pothos, native to the Solomon Islands, which is basically half a world away from the places these frogs are from... yet I've not found a plant with the horizontal leaf habit that stays small enough that the frogs like enough for me to bother changing. 

In that tank I've got the Indonesian pothos, south american orchid, central american peperomia, and african trailing violet cultivar... with native (to me) quarried rocks, new zealand sphagnum moss, Mexican coconut products, oak from the east coast, magnolia from the midwest, and wild almond from hawaii.... I like my frogs well rounded


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*On Well-Rounded*

Not only that, Corey,

From what I've observed, whereas Crypts become more compact emersed--Echinodorus get bigger emersed!

(Seriously--if any of you guys have a greenhouse, consider planting a Swordplant to grow emersed in a flat tub--it will do fine!)

The only points I was making is that the Swords seem easier, less prone to dieback, and do not need as much heat. That was my important point about crypts--I for one, always had luck with them in WARM tanks!

But as for neotropical plants, why not neotropical Marantacea (which you do), Araceae and Acanthaceae--where be da Fittonias?


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Khamul's Tank...*

...Rules!

That is a sweet setup! I am surprised that the Saintpaulia takes that much moisture, though.

Corey--this is what I meant by "swamp"--not as an actual ecological designation (water with trees, I know :wink: ) , but a herpetocultural one. Or "shoreline," but I want to distinguish this from herps that like moving water. 

This tank would rock for certain mantellas, or a few species of small SE Asian Ranids--which, alas, are rarely offered. I might even try an emperor newt, with a shelter "high and dry." 

Most of the hyperoliids I hang with do not like it THAT humid, though...

HEY COREY--could you grow Macodes in Khamul's setup, or is it too moist?


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I just picked up an Anubias afzelli from the LFS. Has very nice foliage. What do you think? Should I use it emersed?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The best term for that in vivariums would be "wet feet". Aviod "swamp", "marsh", etc... avoids confusion and plus, that really isn't even close to what a swamp or marsh is like 

African violets do fine in most tanks if they are given the proper conditions (I grow mine in sphagnum moss and don't let water sit on the leaves) and do best when grown from a leaf rather than a whole plant that was grown in a greenhouse... I grow leaves in my viv plant tanks, and those plants are perfect to put in terrariums, but the original adult plant would rot out if put directly in those conditions as it was grown in less humid conditions originally... this is generally the case with gesneriads in general, grow from cuttings in the frog tanks, most will do well.

Depending on the temps and humidity in the tank, that tank would be suited for many small tropical to semitropical species, including most terrestrial PDFs, mantellas, etc.

Attempting macodes (I'm assuming you mean M. petola, the other species available I don't know if I'd recomend) in any viv would be fine, depending on the substrate conditions. I grow all my jewels just fine in straight up sphagnum moss... some substrate mixes do not allow for enough air and/or drainage and would cause jewels to rot... so it really depends on the substrate... but a substrate that keeps anubias happy is generally WAY too wet (they prefer wet feet) to be growing jewels, who like moist by airy substrate mixes. "Moist" is fine, but substrates tend to run WET in tanks, which is good for anubias, bad for jewels.

Of the genus you have brought up, a number are used, but are limited to a few selections as most grow too large for tanks (much of marantacea falls into that issue). Most plants preferably need to be under 8" or so for smaller tanks, 12-18" for the larger. I personally love Maranta and Fittonia, but they fall into a weird spot... not offered much by terrarium suppliers and hit or miss on getting them at home depot (which newbies are generally stirred away from doing anyways since selecting the right plants is challenging). In both cases, the plants produce leaves alone that can be 4"+ in length, not speaking for the height of the plant itself... Maranta is a creeper but the larger fittonias can take over a 10G


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2007)

My Saintpualia blooms every now and then, and looses alot of leaves. It could be happier, but it has survived for over a year in that spot. I planted a pup (when I first got the other one) in another corner. THe leaves look healthier, but it has not bloomed yet.

I also have Fittonia 'Juanita' and Pilea 'Moon Valley' in the tank. The Fittonia blooms often, but the Pilea simply survives.

I also grow Agloeanema, Spathyphyllum, Anubias, Cyptocoryne in the tank. I had too much light, and most had light green leaves instead of the nice dark leaves. The Anubias didn't seem to like the extra light either, or the lower humidity that came when I was forced to keep the lid open because of the heat from the light. 

I have three Melanophryniscus stelzneri in the tank, and the males sing all the time. I think I have one female, but I have not been able to breed them yet.

Thanks all for the compliments and the help. I will take a picture of my Cryptocoynes once they have all grown a bit.

I had no idea that Amazon swords got big. I currently have two growing in the water feature of my 55 gallon tank. Both are around 6 inches in diameter. You say they get bigger out of the water!!!! WOW. Those, Anubias, and Cryptocornes are the only aquatic plants I have been able to keep alive.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

It really depends on the species of sword you're working with... the dwarf sword only gets a couple inches, were as the Argentine sword I'm working with gets anywhere from 18" to 3' depending on the source of info. You're much more likely to find small crypt species than you are sword species it seems... at least out of the ones commonly produced and imported for the fish hobby.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Swords v. Crypts (There is a parody here)*

You are correct, Kero. Are you near NYC, The Brooklyn Botanical Garden grows an Echinodorus boliviensis (sp?) in its aquatic house. It is noe the size of a large aquarium plant, submersed. By late Spring, it wil be 3-4" with leaves the size of kites! But, there are smaller species, including E. tennelus. How bog is the tank in question?

Antone, who is LFS? Anubias azfelii is now A. barteri var. angustifolia; many lanceolate Anubias have been clas\sified as forms of A. barteri (the true azfelii is a huge plant not in cultivation). The one you got is in fact one of the better ones for emersed culture. Was yours grown emersed? 

Next Thread...


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Anubias as Epiphytes*

Should this be a new thread?

I know some in the posse grow Anubias sp. along with Crypts in "bog" tanks (what Kero calls "wet feet"). But, most Anubias are technically epiphytes that grow with submerged roots! How? On rocks and fallen logs. For our purposes, they will take longer to establish, but once they do, look out! And you will not have to worry about a buried rhizome, which can be prone to rot. SO let's get busy:

1) Stick a rough rock or a piece of wood in your water feature. If you use wood, make sure the emersed part cannot touch your tank substrate--or it will act as a wick and saturate your tank!

2) Try to imagine the direction the Anubias' rhizome is growing in (did I split anuder infinitive :? ). Once you do so, attach the rhizome to its mount just at or below the water line; the idea is to have wet roots, but for all new leaves to emerse. You can attach the rhizome with a rubber band. The plant will anchor fairly quickly, and you can discard the rubber band. (One can also grow Java Moss on the same mount--it to will creep up and out of the water, while changing form!)

3) Rinse your plant first! Anubias are tough, but as hardleaved Aroids they are susceptible to scale. (Although, it seems the scale will stick to the Anubias and leave any broms alone!) Still, if you ever get scale, don't panic. An Anubias grown this way can be removed, and the plant and its mount should be rinsed in a forceful stream of warm water.

Now mount those aroids! :wink: 



4) They grow slowly but surely. No need to fertilize.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: Swords v. Crypts (There is a parody here)*



Groundhog said:


> You are correct, Kero. Are you near NYC, The Brooklyn Botanical Garden grows an Echinodorus boliviensis (sp?) in its aquatic house. It is noe the size of a large aquarium plant, submersed. By late Spring, it wil be 3-4" with leaves the size of kites! But, there are smaller species, including E. tennelus. How bog is the tank in question?
> 
> Antone, who is LFS? Anubias azfelii is now A. barteri var. angustifolia; many lanceolate Anubias have been clas\sified as forms of A. barteri (the true azfelii is a huge plant not in cultivation). The one you got is in fact one of the better ones for emersed culture. Was yours grown emersed?
> 
> Next Thread...


LFS stands for Local Fish Store. The plant I picked up was growing submersed but it looked like it hadn't been there for very long. I have a feeling the place they got it from was growing it emersed though. Either way, I have it in a big plastic fish bag full of air with water at the bottom to create a super humid environment but not quite like being submerged. Hopefully, it will adjust then I can move it into a less humid environment like a viv.

I've seen Anubias lanceolata that looks similar to this one I have. Interesting.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Your Anubias*

Antone,

What is the ambient humidity in your viv?

G


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

My vivs average about 75% or so. Depends on time of day, temp in/out, where its being measured and how long its been since I sprayed. I spray all my vivs once a day for about 10 seconds. The foliage is usually dry by the next misting.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Anubias in a Viv*

Then I would definitely suggest planting the Anubias in a water section. At 75% humidity, you may find that old leaves will brown, and the new leaves may come in smaller and "harder." But it should do well. Anubias are resilient, they just grow slowly.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Antone,
The best luck that I’ve had growing anubias was in a 75 gallon that was half full of water. The tank had a glass top, which left a 1 inch gap across the front of the tank. As I remember it, the tank had three light fixtures above it. One had two 40 watt bulbs, one had one 40 watt bulb and one had two 20 watt bulbs. The tank was probably kept between 80 and 85 degrees. In that tank the plants grew with minimal browning on the terminal edges of the leaves. My feeling is that these plants enjoy it warm with a ton of humitidy. I always give Cesar a hard time because his anubias tends to have some browning on the leaf edges. I believe that his toad tank has a screen top and that is why this happens. Correct me If I’m wrong about the top Cesar. On the other hand Cesar’s anubias seems to bloom quite often. In the 75 that I had my barteri bloomed, but the larger anubias simply grew.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Thanks for the info Chris. I think I will just keep it in this bag for a while until I can get a temp. viv setup with higher constant humidity to attempt the acclimation.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Anubias*

Sounds about right to me, Chris. If Cesar has a screen top, covering half of it with even saran wrap wil raise humidity. I agree about the temperature for Anubias and Cryptocorynes as well; >70 to 90+ actually works (and for some other tropical aroids, btw).

That is why I am surprised that these are grown by pdf fanciers. How do you plant your Anubias, Chris? Have you tried A. hastifolia (the one with the arrowhead leaf)?

G


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2007)

Hi all, no I have a glass top. I use to leave the glass top cracked open quite a bit to release some heat from when I was using the power compact lighting. Now I'm back to the old regular fish tank flourescents, and the Anubias has grown new greener leaves, and has three flower buds on their way to blooming!!!!
The crypts are loving the humidity and leafing like crazy.
Chris, I hates those brown edges, hehe, but you know I bet in nature they all got brown edges. Its rare to fine a nice perfect plant in the wild.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Power Compacts*

Are Power Compacts THAT warm? I cannot believe that they are as warm as incandescents. And don't they come with feet to raise them off the tank?


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*An Invitation for 2/6*

Hey Guys: 

Don't know where else, to post this, but as you are all here:

On behalf, of the New York Bromeliad Society, I would like to invite anyone in the NYC area to our February 6 meeting. It will be a video presentation of the genus NEOREGELIA, with habitat descriptions and cultural requirements. If weather permits, please bring plants for Show & Tell and our Plant Sale table. 

Tuesday February 6th 7PM at the SLC Center, 352 Seventh Avenue (between 29th and 30th Streets), 16th Fl, room D4.

Hope to see Chris, Cesar and whoever else is in the NYC area. 

--G


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Should I send some stuff?? :lol:


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*To Kero Kero*

Corey:

On the one hand you say: "Groundhog - its regular practice to use plants that are not from the same range as our frogs, or even neotropical, because our choices in plants are highly limited"


> Yet, in your next post, you say I should look for plants that come from where my hylids come from--???
> 
> I do not, never had, and have NO/0 interest in a cool, cloud forest setup. I avoid herps and plants from these areas, as I will not and cannot afford the summer air conditioning.
> 
> ...


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*To Kero Kero (I have no idea how to use the quote function)*

Corey:

On the one hand you say: "Groundhog - its regular practice to use plants that are not from the same range as our frogs, or even neotropical, because our choices in plants are highly limited"

Yet, in your next post, you say I should look for plants that come from where my hylids come from--???

I do not, never had, and have NO/0 interest in a cool, cloud forest setup. I avoid herps and plants from these areas, as I will not and cannot afford the summer air conditioning. 

With that in mind, why would you think that nightime lows in the 60s would cause cold burn on bromeliads? Remember, my post was about problems with jewel orchids, and not anything else.

I maintain that a lot of plants and herps do benefit from seasonality--of temp. photoperiod and humidity.

G[/quote]


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Quote*

How does one delete the $%#@^@ quote function?

G


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

George,

Thanks for the invite. I don’t get the opportunity to go to meetings like this one any more. I belong to the Long Island Killifish Association and I haven’t been to a meeting since sometime last spring! This is the time in my life where I take care of children. It will be a good few years before I can easily take off for an evening meeting on something hobby related.

Cheers,
Chris 

Cesar, You are correct, I just like to give you a hard time.  


George, 

Most of us keep our dendro tanks between 75 and 80. Many of us also have our humidity around there as well. This makes Anubias and Cryptocorynes logical choices. At this time I only have one Anubias in a frog tank. It is one of the small barteri cultivars. The tank it is in is currently running about 68 F. The Anubias is growing very slowly even for an Anubias.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Groundhog,

I PM'd you. (Look up above and click on where it says you have 1 new message.)


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