# how many frogs in an 18x18x24?



## Firefur (Feb 10, 2011)

hello , i just bought a 18x18x24 exo terra and i wanted to get a few Ranitomeya ventrimaculatus "Rodyll", i told the breeder the size of my tank and he told me to get at least 5 is this safe?


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Didnt you just basically ask the same question yesterday? You should just ask a Mod to move the other one and delete this one.


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## Firefur (Feb 10, 2011)

i can do that?


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Yeah but you have to ask a Mod to do both.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Five would probably be fine in there. Please go read Saurian.net's notes on Thumbnail frogs in the caresheet section. With a question like this it sounds like these might be your first dart frogs? Not sure why new keepers are so interested in skipping over the large terrestrial and easier species and going straight to thumbnails. Vents aren't hard to care for, but another species would be way more forgiving if you make mistakes. 

I've been posting quite a bit in the beginner forum lately because it seems like a lot of experienced froggers have kind of given up on newbies as of late lol So I'm trying to help out a little....but I am getting bored really fast with the same questions daily. When I got into dart frogs 10 years ago, I didn't have a forum to ask questions. I used frognet and I basically just read posts and didn't need to post. I also did my research. Seems like some newbies here want other people to do research for them. Not talking about you in particular though...just ranting a bit. 

Read, read, then read some more is my advice to new dart frog keepers. There's SO much to learn and I don't think anyone could ever know everything. 

I'm going to be working with Bassleri very soon. Picking up a trio. I didn't make a single post asking everyone to answer my questions all in one thread. Instead, I used the search button, researched online, got geographical info, the type of environment they like, etc. Experience helps as well. My experience with owning a group of Trivs kind of gave me an idea of what that the genus is like. Also, seeing other frog collections and seeing what I like in person.

You have to remember how small thumbnails are. Pictures don't do them justice whatsoever. These are TINY creatures! I just think a new dart frog keeper should enjoy and become familiar with Auratus, tincs, and leucs (or other simple species) before they move on to thumbnails. It's your 4th post too so I assume you're new to this. 

Alright rant over...lol


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Go through the caresheets here. There are good reads on all sorts of thumbnail husbandry issue. From designing a vert enclosure, to how many frogs in a group, to overall care and native distribution. If you read the care section, you'll see that it says intermediate. Please don't jump overlook the larger darts as your first frogs. 

A group of 5 is fine, but they can be territorial and don't be surprised if eventually the group of 5 has a few die after a while. It happens. Thumbnails are for seasoned dart frog keepers.

I'm really baffled at why the larger terrestrial frogs are glanced over by newbies these days. They're large, absolutely colorful and gorgeous, and breed readily. 

I love dart frogs and their life cycle. If I were just getting into them now, I would buy a single common species. Work really hard on their tank and get fruit flies ready way in advance. Learn how air humidity works and ignore misting systems and gadgets you think you need to make it humid while ignoring glass tops (this is SO common). Wet is not humid. Also, keep this one pair or group for a long time and wait until they breed. It's fun to watch them go from being small juveniles, to adults, to courting, to laying eggs and failing, to laying eggs and succeeding, to watching the tadpoles hatch, then finally housing the tadpoles and watching them morph. That's an amazing feeling and something a new dart frog keeper will find very fulfilling. 

Just my advice. I don't think I'll post on this beginner forum anymore. It reminds me of groundhog day with the same questions over and over and over and not many new keepers take responsibility to learn the basics on their own through good old fashioned research.

Sorry for the long rambling posts. Also, I apologize if there were any run on sentences. Trying to type in between the great stuff setting up.

Danny


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## JJhuang (Feb 5, 2010)

The search button is your best friend, It will help you answer almost all your questions. Caresheets in the above categories on different species of darts. Theres always new facts and builds posted up every week you cant stop reading.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Firefur said:


> hello , i just bought a 18x18x24 exo terra and i wanted to get a few Ranitomeya ventrimaculatus "Rodyll", i told the breeder the size of my tank and he told me to get at least 5 is this safe?


Four or five vents would be fine in there. I just picked up a used exo-terra the same size this morning.

BTW, welcome to the board.

The search function can be everyone's friend, but I don't think anyone needs to be quite so harsh with a new poster. If you don't like a question, just ignore it.

Deb


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Yes, 4 or 5 would be fine. Vents are a very social frog. I very much doubt you will have any real aggression problems. You don't NEED 5 like the breeder said. If he really said you NEED 5, he is trying to push sales. 4 or 5 would be the best way to insure that you get at least one breeding pair, but you will probably get a breeding pair with 3 or 4. 
When I want to really make sure I get at least one breeding pair, I buy 5 and I've never been stuck with all one sex.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

You're right Deb. I think people go on the offense right away because it's a lot of teenagers coming on wanting to get into dart frogs....they do no research and rely on posts alone, then end up selling their frogs in a few months anyway because they can't keep up with the responsibility. I'm a nice guy though and definitely not in my nature to be rude to someone new without knowing anything about them so for that I apologize.

I meant what I said in my 2 posts though and I think I gave solid advice. Dart frogs are a big responsibility and I care about their well being. Most of us here take this hobby very seriously and some people just treat frogs like a novelty and not something to take seriously. 

I have a bunch of frogs morphing soon. I'm holding a few back but when I do sell a few, I will be able to tell right away if someone is a newbie and then I'll make sure they have done their research or I wouldn't sell them frogs.


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## Firefur (Feb 10, 2011)

allow me to allay a few of your concerns. 
i am not a teenager
i am a wildlife biology student 
i have had several herps in my time. 
i have tried to find info on this species and have not been able to find anything even using it's scientific name.
lastly my very race makes it absolutely impossible for me to think of any animal as a novelty. 
and i actually love building habitats for my animals that are as close to nature as i can manage. as to the care sheets. 
thank you all for your advice and concerns, but i truly am asking because i want to do what is best for the frogs. and i don't mind the Concerns thank you for voicing them if i'd been facing irresponsible children i'd probably be concerned to.lol


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

LOL fair enough. Remember though, with dart frogs, throw most herp rules out the window.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DJboston said:


> LOL fair enough. Remember though, with dart frogs, throw most herp rules out the window.


I haven't found that to be true.. instead I find that there is a lot of unsupported dogma relating to dendrobatids.. 

Ed


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I have 5 veradero's and 5 intermedius in tanks that size for over 2 yrs and they are doing great. Sometimes a extra one pops up in the tank. I usaully take those out once they start growing. John


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

DJboston said:


> Seems like some newbies here want other people to do research for them. Not talking about you in particular though...just ranting a bit.


Welcome to internet forums 

You've also just answered why a lot of veterans (of all hobbies, not just this one) no longer frequent beginner subforums.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Firefur said:


> i have tried to find info on this species and have not been able to find anything even using it's scientific name.


Hi Firefur,
There is plenty of information about the species. I'm guessing you may have been searching for information regarding specifically Ranitomeya ventrimaculatus "Rodyll," which may have been difficult since it is not exactly very common in the hobby. The "Rodyll" part refers to the locale it is, so ventrimaculatus "Iquitos red-orange" and ventrimaculatus "Rodyll" for example are the same species, just different morphs. The basic care, for the most part, will be the same for the species regardless of what locale it is. Basically, search for just general vent info, and not information specific to the "Rodyll" population. 
I have found my vents to be very social and active in groups, and have not seen any aggression. You should be fine.
Bryan


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