# Newbies crack me up!!! LOL



## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Just wanted to share this story. I have a local frog friend who recently got into dart frogs. He's been using me for fruit flies once a month as his 2 auratus can run off my cultures once a month as they produce more than he needs really. Anyway he's been absorbing information pretty rapidly, has set-up a nice tank so far and is working on another. He makes a lot of rookie mistakes but who didn't when they started?? I know I made shocking mistakes when I started back in 1998. The hardest thing to explain to him is why it's ok for him to keep his blue and green auratus together, it's not ok to interbreed. He doesn't understand why he can't just produce turquoise froglets as he's seen them for sale. I've explained it many times though and he's starting to understand. 

Anyway, he was going to black jungle with his girlfriend on Saturday and wanted me to come with him. But with my tooth pain being the worst EVER, the baby shower sunday, and my Fiance's due date in a few weeks, it wasn't possible. I knew that they had tropical moss for sale right now and it doesn't last long. I told him how it's hard to get it to grow but it comes back or grows in the right conditions. I like to keep it very wet usually but I don't count on it as my leaf litter is better and moss usually only grows for me when I don't plan on it and not "plant" it.

Anyway, he wanted some anyway so I told him to grab me a bag and I'll pay him when he gets there. I said to keep it in a freezer bag and mist it and it should be fine for a couple of days.

By saying freezer bag, he thought I meant FREEZE the moss in the freezer. So when he got it, he put tropical moss in the freezer for eight hours before realizing what an idiot he was being doing so.

I laughed about it though and he dropped it off here anyway. While it looks fine, who knows right??? I'm sure moss in Florida has mornings where it goes below freezing for some nights in the winter. But still, I'm like dude, my girlfriend would know not to put tropical moss in the freezer! lol "If I said to flush it down the toilet and wait for it to float back up, would you do it?" 

It looks fine, I'm guessing it might be fine....but planted pillow moss usually dies anyway though I have some that has gotten going on wood and wet areas. It's worth a try anyway.

Just had to share the story as I thought it was hilarious. Don't worry, he feels so embarrassed. 


Hope everyone had a good weekend!
D


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Wow. I can only think that his over-concern for doing the right thing kept him from thinking about what he was doing with the moss. Funny--thx for sharing.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

The hardest thing to explain to him is why it's ok for him to keep his blue and green auratus together, it's not ok to interbreed. He doesn't understand why he can't just produce turquoise froglets as he's seen them for sale. I've explained it many times though and he's starting to understand. 



I don't understand maybe you miswrote, saying it is ok to keep blue and green auratus together but not to interbreed? Funny story though!


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

It's a 55 gallon tank. D. Auratus can be kept together...any morph really. They're the same species despite being from different areas sometimes or some are more bold than others.

I still believe they can be kept together if monitored. It's not a mixed species tank, just mixed morph tank. 

Breeding on the other hand would be bad as there is no reason to spoil the bloodlines and create hybrids. After all, they're the same species so will interbreed. I wouldn't trust the fact that some females prefer males only of their specific morph. That doesn't mean it won't happen that's all.

Make sense now?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

DJboston said:


> It's a 55 gallon tank. D. Auratus can be kept together...any morph really. They're the same species despite being from different areas sometimes or some are more bold than others.
> 
> I still believe they can be kept together if monitored. It's not a mixed species tank, just mixed morph tank.
> 
> ...




Makes sense,just seems like you are giving conflicting infn one hand you tell him its ok to raise them together but don't breed them.They will cross morphs and it would be hard to tell who bred with who unless you see it, which we all know you don't see every breeding.Noobs want to learn and listen to everything you say. I just think you may be giving him mixed signals unintentionally which may confuse him and maybe thats why he doesn't understand.I personally don't mix morphs or species.I have blue and greens as well but in different vivs.Maybe it's just my opinion?
Lou


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

*palm to forehead.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

oddlot said:


> Makes sense,just seems like you are giving conflicting infn one hand you tell him its ok to raise them together but don't breed them.They will cross morphs and it would be hard to tell who bred with who unless you see it, which we all know you don't see every breeding.Noobs want to learn and listen to everything you say. I just think you may be giving him mixed signals unintentionally which may confuse him and maybe thats why he doesn't understand.I personally don't mix morphs or species.I have blue and greens as well but in different vivs.Maybe it's just my opinion?
> Lou


They can be safely kept together but they shouldn't be bred, how is that confusing?

Do you have froglets spring up in your auratus vivs without assistance?


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## qiksilver5 (Jan 9, 2007)

VicSkimmr said:


> They can be safely kept together but they shouldn't be bred, how is that confusing?
> 
> Do you have froglets spring up in your auratus vivs without assistance?


It's an issue of semantics. I had to read it a few times too before I understood the point. No need to get snappy.

That being said, why not tell him to pick one and pair off whichever he likes best to reduce the confusion? That setup sounds like it's just asking for froglets (granted I don't think you said any age).

That's a great story. I agree with Aaron.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Ya I don't see what's confusing. You can keep any types of the same species together....they're the same species!!! lol I can keep a male azureus with a female cobalt tinc. I wouldn't want to of course...but if someone wanted to it wouldn't be a problem as far as husbandry is concerned. But if you ever got fertile eggs, you would have to destroy them to avoid hybrid morphs. 

Auratus can breed in a tank without our help of removing the eggs if they can deposit tadpoles. So if someone wants to keep different morphs together, just make sure this isn't going on.

This is why mixing is a bad idea to begin with. If people just avoid mixing altogether, they don't have to even think about these situations and can just breed their frogs freely.

Let me make it clear on what I said.... D. auratus is a species from multiple countries and contains tons of different morphs. Their husbandry is the exact same and they all would be fine together. We frown upon hybrid morphs as we want to keep the bloodlines pure. The reason they WILL interbreed is because like I said, they do a little TOO good together lol

I told the newbie I know to separate the morphs to avoid future problems. BUT, if he wants to keep them together, just don't hatch any eggs or raise tadpoles. If the tank is capable of morphing out tadpoles on it's own, keep a close eye on the water sources.

I really don't know how I'm contradicting myself. Auratus do well with other auratus, regardless of their color morph. Just keep the bloodlines pure.

Simple?


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

Sorry, but I had to.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

VicSkimmr said:


> They can be safely kept together but they shouldn't be bred, how is that confusing?
> 
> Do you have froglets spring up in your auratus vivs without assistance?


Ofcourse they can be safely kept together,but if they are they will breed.

I have eggs and tads that I do assist.But do you remember the first time you had eggs as a noob.You want to try and raise them.


I just think if someone is just starting out they should be informed a little more clearly.I read it a couple of times and can see how the guy was having a hard time understanding him.I can see what he meant but I've been doing this for a while.Thats all.
Lou


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## qiksilver5 (Jan 9, 2007)

DJboston said:


> The hardest thing to explain to him is why it's ok for him to keep his blue and green auratus together, it's not ok to interbreed.


"...*while* it's ok for him to keep his blue and green auratus together, it's not ok to interbreed."

As I said, semantics... It's not what you said, it's how. Anyway, that was supposed to be an aside, not something to distract and irritate everyone.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

I agree. It's just hard to tell a person who has limited mental capacity for science that certain things are ok, and others are not. I've tried all approaches with this kid and he only understands a few things. His girlfriend bought him a blue and black auratus for Christmas with no flies or anything to feed him. The pet store told her there were enough flies to last a week or so in the tank she bought the frog in. Honestly, the story was almost enough to make me steer clear of this guy. But, I felt the need to help him out as best I can and at least sell him fruit fly cultures. He also gets a lot of advice when seeing my collection. He also made a black jungle trip so he's definitely trying very hard.

I think he's understanding what I'm saying but it's just going to take a while.

Also, telling someone to pick one and pair off is harder than it seems! lol I told him rather than buy the green and black auratus to go with his blue, he should buy another blue. Did he listen to me? NO. He wanted a different color in his tank. 

I think in the end, he wants some cool dart frogs and is taking good care of them. He has no interest in breeding at the moment. He just wants to have a rainforest tank. I mentioned this website to him, but not everyone has the ambition to learn the right way to do things.

You should of heard our conversation last night after he brought the moss over. He was checking out one of my pumilio tanks and then looking at the pumilio project poster I have in my living room. I couldn't make him understand that they were all the same species, just different morphs from different locales. Took me forever to get him on the same page.

I feel like it's my job to educate him as best I can...but no one did this for me when I was 17 years old. I learned by actually picking up books and asking questions. I'm not sure I can sit back and let him do whatever he wants and just buy fruit flies from me. Turning a blind eye is hard to do that's all.

I'm not an old man by any means. I'm 28 years old. I just wish the slightly younger generation would take a little more initiative in doing things the right way. There are several ways to do things....but we do have a code of ethics that I wish every keeper would at least know enough about to have an opinion on!
 This conversation is making my slap my head multiple times haha




qiksilver5 said:


> It's an issue of semantics. I had to read it a few times too before I understood the point. No need to get snappy.
> 
> That being said, why not tell him to pick one and pair off whichever he likes best to reduce the confusion? That setup sounds like it's just asking for froglets (granted I don't think you said any age).
> 
> ...


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Can everyone please UNDERSTAND THIS: He bought his two frogs before I could interject. He doesn't care to get rid of either or give them different tanks. So what else can I do? I'm not a frogger babysitter! lol I can't hold someones hand just because they buy fruit flies from me. I tried my best with him and hopefully he'll learn the ropes.

Also please remember guys, what I type here is not exactly what I said to him in person. It could of been worded differently, I don't remember.

Lou, I didn't mean to single you out. Just wanted to make it a point to let everyone know that I am an experienced and involved frogger and I have nothing but good intentions for the hobby. I was only trying to better explain. Maybe that got lost as that's what happens in internet conversations. Talking in person is easier. 






oddlot said:


> Ofcourse they can be safely kept together,but if they are they will breed.
> 
> I have eggs and tads that I do assist.But do you remember the first time you had eggs as a noob.You want to try and raise them.
> 
> ...


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

By the way, I'm talking about the local kid who owns a couple auratus, not the person on this forum asking me for clarification.

There's some confusion here. I basically didn't post this story as anything but a funny story. I am FAR too busy to get frustrated explaining stuff to people.

What I conveyed to the local person was called out by someone that didn't understand. I hope he now understands.

I had nothing to do with anyone mixing different morphs. I just tried my best to see if he'd separate them. When he didn't want to listen, I told him what could happen.

My head is going to explode! lol


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

DJboston said:


> Ya I don't see what's confusing. You can keep any types of the same species together....they're the same species!!! lol I can keep a male azureus with a female cobalt tinc. I wouldn't want to of course...but if someone wanted to it wouldn't be a problem as far as husbandry is concerned. But if you ever got fertile eggs, you would have to destroy them to avoid hybrid morphs.
> 
> Auratus can breed in a tank without our help of removing the eggs if they can deposit tadpoles. So if someone wants to keep different morphs together, just make sure this isn't going on.
> 
> ...


Sorry if you got angry as that was not my intention.As qiksilver5 said it was how it was read.I'm glad you expressed to the newbie he should separate them if he wants to breed.keeping bloodlines pure is key.Thanks,
Lou


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

DJboston said:


> By the way, I'm talking about the local kid who owns a couple auratus, not the person on this forum asking me for clarification.
> 
> There's some confusion here. I basically didn't post this story as anything but a funny story. I am FAR too busy to get frustrated explaining stuff to people.
> 
> ...


Don't asplode, we need your brains for the newbies


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Susan..I'm trying I really am!!! lol 

You personally know what I've been up to lately so my life is just crazy exciting! My frog collection is the easy part! Try putting together a babies crib for the first time. Honestly, if you told me I would be doing that three years ago I would of called you crazy!!!


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

DJboston said:


> Susan..I'm trying I really am!!! lol
> 
> You personally know what I've been up to lately so my life is just crazy exciting! My frog collection is the easy part! Try putting together a babies crib for the first time. Honestly, if you told me I would be doing that three years ago I would of called you crazy!!!


Want to make it easier? Room-in with the baby, which reduces the risk of SIDS by stimulating his breathing reflex when he's near you...and junk the crib. No crib (baby prison) = no prolonged late-night crying and worrying about the baby, resulting in loss of sleep.  A co-sleeper is a good alternative.

Plus, lots of cribs get recalled for safety reasons---kids have been getting trapped in them and smothering. Be sure yours isn't listed on the CPSC website.

Oh, and if you want to really steel yourself for fatherhood, try watching some YouTube vids of toddler messes...

(I don't think I'm jacking the thread...this is still about Newbies Crack me Up LOL)


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm really tempted to make comments about this mixed morph tank, but... it seems like it's been hashed enough in this thread already... and I've made my position elsewhere pretty clear (if you want my respect, don't keep mixed morph tanks... or at least prove to me that you're doing it responsibly (surprisingly it's easier to do that with a mixed species tank than with a mixed morph tank)).

Pretty ridiculous story.... Does he _actually_ have a diminished mental capacity, or was he just so nervous about doing it right for you that he over thought and botched it?


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Honestly I think he knew it was pretty ridiculous to put tropical moss the freezer but he did it anyway...From talking to him, I don't think he's the type of person into education. He sounds like he just likes dart frogs and wants to own them. I'm the type that is really ambitious about the hobby and wants to be involved. I'm not quite sure yet though. He's surprised me with some things that he's said about Dart frogs and info that he was correct on. So I guess I have hope for him. I'd be intimidated about getting into the hobby in 2011. There's A LOT of info out there and it's really hard to sort it all out. 10 years ago it wasn't as complicated...and I'm sure 10 years before that it was harder to break into the hobby, but at least information wasn't thrown at you a mile a minute and you can learn at a good pace. 

Smackofthegods; I tried my best to explain to him my thoughts on mixed morph tanks. I don't think I failed. I just think he doesn't care and no matter what I say won't matter. Not only do I think mixed morph tanks are tacky and unprofessional, but for me, there is just no benefit from it. We're past the point where it might be cool to see different colored exotic frogs in our tanks. That's of ZERO interest to me and I can't even remember a time when it was (besides keeping froglets together to save space when breeding). 

I didn't want this thread to seem like I condone that it was ok to keep morphs together. I just meant that it's not the worst thing in the hobby if done right. 

Frankly though, in my collection there's no right way to do it. I just don't do it. 

Am I making more sense?


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi DJ,

That's pretty funny about the moss. If he had bought a fish and put in a frezzer bag, would it also have ended-up in the freezer?

Take care, Richard.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

DJboston said:


> Am I making more sense?


You made sense to begin with. I just like the opportunity to refresh the policy "don't mix!"


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