# Blind azureus



## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

have 4 juvie to sub-adult azureus,1 Im pretty sure is blind both eyes have the grey/blue look to them,and he or she struggles to catch ff's.I had to put in a ff cup with the cloth lid so the frog can catch some flies,Im dusting the flies every 2nd day with repashy vit a plus.I just recently got the repashy vit a plus,was using rep cal herptivite w/beta carotene,and rep cal calcium.Still using the rep cal calcium,but going to get repashy as soon as Im out.Anyways my question would be is there anything I can do other than keep it in a small container and hope it catches enough ff's before the vit a falls off them,I would put back in viv,but doubt it will catch any food that way.Its not really skinny looking,but afraid that it will decline fast if it doesn't get enough food intake.Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


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## Ultravincent (Sep 3, 2012)

If the situation doesn't improve, I would put him out of his misery.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Watch how much you supplement with vitamin a. It can cause an overdose which will impact its ability to absorb/use other vitamins.


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Yup. Too much vitamin A is bad. I would supplement them with vitamin A occasionally (to give an idea of what I mean by occasionally, I dust a breeding pair's flies with vitamin A once a month because they use up a lot of vitamin A breeding) and use Repashy calcium plus as the main supplement. 

Also, good luck with the azureus. I don't know what caused it or how to treat it, so I am of no use here


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

I know about the vit a causing overdose not from experience just from reading here.Ive only dusted today,and 2 days ago,but he barely catches any of them,and by the time he gets any they are cleaned off of the vit a powder.Id say he or she is eating about 3-5 melo ff's every day or 2,since putting in the ff cup.I dust with calcium,and don't plan on using the vit a again for a few weeks.I also have some orajel and vodka just in case,but want to wait till I know for sure that it wouldn't be able to survive properly without living in a ff cup.Im not cruel I wont wait until its close to death from starvation I just want to give it a chance to pull through before calling it a lost cause.As for the other azureus still have them on normal diet,I gave them the vit a plus once,dust with rep cal calcium every feeding unless Im dusting with the herptivite multivitamin,and I feed quite a bit of melos once a day,everyday except on Sundays when I make more cultures.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Do you have a sweater box or kritter keeper you could put it in instead of the culture cup? My worry would be keeping it in such a tiny place and keeping the humidity consistent. If you do have something larger then add a slice of banana for the flies to congregate on and make it easier for the frog to find. Also any excess supplements will be on the banana and it could pick them up while going for flies.

Edit: are these offspring from your frogs or did you buy them? If you bought them i suggest contacting the seller and asking if this is something that was there before you bought them


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

Ive had them since beginning of May,It recently popped up.Thats why I got the vit a plus figured maybe it was a vit deficiency,and that the herptivite wasn't cutting it,but the other frogs are fine.Ill be switching to repashy supplements real soon,Ill still have the rep cal on hand for my other reptiles.Im not too sure who originally bred the parents,but I bought them from local pet shop the owner told me he got them from somebody at sewerfest around April to May,but didn't remember the name of the breeder just the face of the guy.Im hoping the breeder is there on August 4th when I go with the guy I got them from,mainly so I can get closer to an exact age and line if possible.As for the frog going blind I wouldn't say its the breeders fault unless it hereditary,cause it and the others have been healthy till now.


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

Sorry forgot to mention I did have it in a 2.5 gallon quarantine container,after taking it from the viv.Was watching for 2 days before realizing it couldn't see the flies and wasn't going after them,so moved to ff cup and it was able to catch a few ff's.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

you shouldn't euthanize the frog. at least not while it's still trying to catch food. If it's still TRYING to catch flies then it hasn't gone blind, since frogs are attracted to prey by movement -- it won't go for anything it can't see move (though that's not to say that its vision is not impaired).

Herptivite does not have a form of vitamin A that is useable by frogs. This particular frog might be a bit more sensitive to low vitA levels, which could explain why it's the only one affected.



> As a regular supplement, it should not be used more than once per week by “dusting” insects, or sprinkling on vegetables at a level of one teaspoon per pound. It can be used therapeutically in higher or more frequent doses to reverse Vitamin A deficiency (Hypovitamintosis A) under Veterinary prescription.


--Disclaimer: I am not a vet--
So if it were me in your position, I would try feeding the frog flies every day. I would definitely supplement with VitA+ at least once per week. I might even bump it up to twice a week since its suspected that the frog might be suffering from hypovitamintosis A.

I would also really suggest getting repashy Cal+ asap. Especially if your current supplements are over 6 months old.

Very important: put this frog into a QT container. It can be a simple plastic shoebox container with a lid from the dollar store if you want. This way the frog can recover better and not be stressed out by the other frogs, amd you can keep an eye on it better too.


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

I currently have it in a ff cup with fabric lid as this was only way it was able to catch any flies,had it in a 2 and 1/2 gallon quarantine tank,but it wasn't eating.I thought maybe the frog was going after them from sound cause it still misses even in the ff cup,but does catch a few.When it was in the viv it sat in same spot all the time for 2 days straight that's how I knew something was up.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Dweezy247 said:


> I currently have it in a ff cup with fabric lid as this was only way it was able to catch any flies,had it in a 2 and 1/2 gallon quarantine tank,but it wasn't eating.I thought maybe the frog was going after them from sound cause it still misses even in the ff cup,but does catch a few.When it was in the viv it sat in same spot all the time for 2 days straight that's how I knew something was up.


That's sad, I hope it somehow manages to survive. If it is bacterial/fungal you may be able to treat it...Eye problems often are, but if it is a genetic birth defect then I would agree that euthanasia is about all you can do, especially if the frog is obviously suffering from being emaciated or something.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Keeping it in a fly container runs the risk of killing your frog via stress rather than starvation....

Repashy vit A was developed as a treatment for the condition of hypovitaminosis A, not as a regular supplement. You should not be using it more than once a week. Hyperviatminosis A is just as real and serious a threat (some would argue more so).

Since it wasn't born blind and is still trying for flies, my first suspicion would be a fungal or bacterial infection. I don't believe the symptoms would be caused by a lack of vitamin. I would contact Dr Frye immediately, discuss the symptoms with him and hash out a treatment plan. Do it before your frog gets any worse.


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

Does anybody have a way to contact Dr.Frye via phone or email.Searched his name on DB and found posts by his brother,but noneby him.


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

Was wondering how fast the vit a plus would cause a reaction whether its good or bad reaction.Mainly asking cause the frogs eyes seem to be getting a more normal look to them color wise.Been using a little terramycin on the eyes for the past 4 days counting today 5 along with the vit a plus I gave it.The eyes almost have no grayish blue color in them anymore and look almost jet black as they did before.I would post pics,but only have crappy camera phone and I haven't been able to get it to show the eyes properly in the pics.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Here is a link to Dr. Frye's web page...it has his phone and address on it and you should be able to find info on there about his email as well.
Milan Area Animal Hospital, David M. Frye, DVM, Veterinary services in Milan, MI, Services

I'm sorry I don't have any advice for you on how to get your tinc back to normal...but I do wish you and your Azureus the best.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

No clue about the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A in frogs. Did a literature search and only found a few hits, but none with symptoms.

If frogs are like humans, the symptoms would be pretty hard to detect by eye:
Hypervitaminosis A - Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment of Hypervitaminosis A - NY Times Health Information

Is the antibiotic you're giving it in cream or liquid form? Whats your current dosing, and feeding/dusting schedule?


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

The terramycin is an ointment,its more like Neosporin in look and texture,I rub a tiny bit around the eyes once a day for past 5 days,and it seems to be having a positive effect or the vit a is,one way or another the eyes are starting to look the normal black color as of today.Havent done the terramycin today yet want to see if the frog is able to catch ff's easier before putting any on.Which Im going to feed it right now,Ill get back to this post shortly after feeding.


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

I put the frog back in bigger QT,and seems like its trying harder to get the ff's as opposed to before when it wasn't even noticing them in the bigger QT.Its still missing here and there,but does seem like its able to see a little bit better or its learning to hunt without seeing.It also seems a bit livelier.Going to give it another treatment of terramycin shortly,and plan to continue that for few more days and see how it progresses,unless the frog starts getting skinny or stops moving and eating again.


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

Quick update,the frog is moving around a good amount,and is catching more ff's everyday.Also fed about 50 ff maggots yesterday,and seem to love them.Havent used the terramycin since July 31st,and only used the vit a plus twice within the first few days after noticing the problem.Other than that just the calcium w/d3 on the ff's every feeding,will be picking up repashy calcium plus this weekend,and some superpig to add with the vit a plus supplement.I know Im only supposed to use the vit a plus once a month,but what about the calcium plus is it safe to use almost every feeding.Same with super pig is that a once a month supplement or can it be used more often without worry,not daily use,more like weekly or bi weekly?So far seems like the frog will make a full recovery,still in 2.5 gallon QT container figured another 2-3 weeks in there as long as problems don't come back or new problems arise,and should be able to go back in the viv.Going to use the terramycin every 2-3 days now instead of everyday,until I cant see anymore of the hazy look in the eyes.Thank you to everybody for any advice given and for the sympathies,and I will post an update next week with progress of the frog.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

The calcium plus is an all in one supplement. It is formulated to use at every feeding. In fact every ingredient of superpig is in the cal plus. Most people only use the vit a once a month with breeding or deficient frogs. The cal plus has everything you need in it including the usable form of vit a. I use it every feeding and substitute with superpig once a month and the same with vitamin a for my breeders.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Dweezy247 said:


> I know Im only supposed to use the vit a plus once a month,but what about the calcium plus is it safe to use almost every feeding.
> Same with super pig is that a once a month supplement or can it be used more often without worry,not daily use,more like weekly or bi weekly?


VitA+ can be used up to once per week via the directions on the label:
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: Vitamin A Plus :: Vitamin A Plus 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Cal+ can be used at every feeding. I believe this is what most people do.

Superpig is formulated to bring out the red/orange/yellow pigmentations in frogs, so it wont do much for azureus. In addition, Cal+ is supposed to be 6% superpig by weight.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think Hypo's point is that he wouldn't even be trying if he couldn't see at all. It is the movement of the prey that triggers the frog to strike. If he can't see movement, he won't try to eat.

Oh, I agree with the rest of Hypo's post too.

ETA: rats! looks like I missed a whole page of this thread and also blew it on quoting Hypo's magnificent post. Carry on


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

Stopped using the terramycin eye ointment,and haven't used anymore vit a plus yet,but the frogs eyes look normal again,and hes hopping around and eating well again.Thanks for any and all the help and advice given.Mainly wanted to let everybody know the frog seems back to normal.Except for the tiny bit of weight he/she needs to put back on,it never did get super skinny just wasn't eating as much for the first week,but the appetite is back.Still have the frog in QT container,planning to put back in the viv by the end of the week,just want to be sure the frog is better and not just feeling better.Dont want to put it back in the viv without making sure the frog is over whatever problem/sickness it had.Picked up the repashy calcium plus,so it will be getting that instead of the rep cal calcium with d3,and have plenty of vit a plus to use which I will use that every 3-4 weeks instead of the rep cal herptivite multivitamin.For the feeding the frog will get dusted melo's 6 days a week,and will have springs and isos in the viv as an extra source of food.Took down the viv he was in sterilized it,and set it back up with fresh everything did most of it the day after removing the frog from viv.The plants were growing on my carnivorous plant shelf for the past 2 months except the ficus pumillo has been there 1 month,so hopefully whatever caused the eye problem is gone if it was in the viv,if it wasn't from the viv than oh well got a nice sterile fresh setup for the frog to get back into when its back to normal health and size.Also added some ventilation to the vivs lid so its not air tight anymore.Thanks again to everybody for the help and advice,and hopefully nobody else has to go through this with any of their frogs.


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## pavochavo (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm glad the little one is doing so much better. I've been watching this thread and am glad it is turning out well!


Thanks,
Robert


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