# What size tank for first Dart viv?



## AllAboutThePhibs (Aug 2, 2015)

After years of reef keeping, I have decided to take the plunge into Vivariums and Dart Frogs, something I have always wanted. Although I have several questions, my main question is this; what size of vivarium is best to maintain and be able to set up a natural habitat for dart frogs? I have a 10 gallon, 20 gallon long, and a 75 gallon. Out of these 3, which would be best for a beginning vivarium?


----------



## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Still the 20. 10 is pretty small, and learning on the 20 will give you some good learning experience before you do the 75.


----------



## SwampMan (Jun 26, 2015)

Another vote for the 20 gallon, but a used Exo-Terra would be even better yet, imo. Having front opening doors makes dealing with feedings and water changes so much easier.


----------



## AllAboutThePhibs (Aug 2, 2015)

Ok, awesome, I'll go with the 20 long, unless of course I can find an Exo. What would you suggest as the best frog for beginners and how many would comfortably go in the 20 gallon?


----------



## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

Yay, another reefer turned frogger. 

Much like reef keeping there are lots of rules of thumb and lots of opinions. Also like reef keeping bigger tends to be better. Yes you can do a mini or nano reef, but they are hard to maintain in a sort of balanced state. Not impossible, just harder. The same appears true for dart frogs. I'd suggest starting with the 20 long and see how you like that and how difficult (or not) it is for you. 

I started with a 40 gallon breeder tank. Now I have 11 tanks and the last two were 75 gallons and 50 gallons.


----------



## AllAboutThePhibs (Aug 2, 2015)

Haha I love reef keeping, but after moving out on my own, (19 years old), I had a change of heart and couldn't resist going for the Darts, I've always loved frogs, but with reef aquariums scattered in my room, I couldn't ever find time or room. I started reefing with a 29 gallon actually, and by the end, I had 8 tanks, ranging from 5 gallons to 125 gallons.  Within a 20 gallon long, would it be better to just suit a pair of frogs, or would more be allowed in that space?


----------



## SwampMan (Jun 26, 2015)

AllAboutThePhibs said:


> What would you suggest as the best frog for beginners and how many would comfortably go in the 20 gallon?


Probably maximum 4 juveniles depending on what you get. I just got 2 tincs and put them in a 18x18x36. I I could have done 4 but most likely would have to separate them as adults. Something to think about.


----------



## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

I think it depends on what frogs you like as to how many will reasonably do well in a 20 gal. I have three adult red splashbacks in a 20 gal, I also have three adult green/black auratus in a 20 gal, and I have a male/female pair dendrobates tinctorius (blue azureus) in a 20 gal. All three 20 gallons are longs.


----------



## AllAboutThePhibs (Aug 2, 2015)

So for the first 20 gallon for Darts, which species do you think would be best for the beginning factor?


----------



## SwampMan (Jun 26, 2015)

You only have 12" from front to back on that tank, so, a frog that is less likely to jump and bash it's face. Maybe e. Anthonyi's? Or truncs.


----------



## srexob (Sep 1, 2013)

If you can keep 1, you can keep them all. A lot of the time when people say a frog is difficult, its because of the breeding habits, not because its so much more difficult to keep alive. If you have just 1 brain cell and do you ample research before buying............then I say buy what you want. Search around and find the frog you like and that's the frog you should buy.


----------



## martini5788 (Aug 10, 2015)

srexob said:


> If you can keep 1, you can keep them all. A lot of the time when people say a frog is difficult, its because of the breeding habits, not because its so much more difficult to keep alive. If you have just 1 brain cell and do you ample research before buying............then I say buy what you want. Search around and find the frog you like and that's the frog you should buy.



This is a great thing to know. I figured it
Was difficulty with feeding and such. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

I also came from the fish aquarium end and had many empty tanks. Forget the ExoTerra style tanks if you have regular tanks lying around. Why spend money you could use on frogs.

I suggest larger frogs with good visual interest as the way to go so you will see them often from further away.
Look over the caresheets and see what makes an impact on you picture wise. Galacts, tettibs or bicolor come to mind for that size tank because you can keep them all to adult size in a group unlike tincs where you will ultimately end up with a pair. If you can start with juveniles rather than froglets they are a lot more bulletproof. 


Srexob's "been there and done that" outlook is true to an extent but I prefer to have them thrive and reproduce rather than just survive. For that a bit more thought and planning will serve you well.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Regarding Srexob's comments, I don't find all of my frogs the same in terms of their ease to keep. I think there are some frogs that are better than others to start out with. I have always liked leucomelas as a starter frog for a variety of reasons. I also like RRRavelo's list of frogs.

As for vertical tanks, I will offer a different opinion. I converted several of my old fish tanks into vivaria when I first started. They work ok, and I still have all of them. Over time, though, I started seeking out front-opening tanks. I find that it is tougher to vent a tank that only opens at the top. All of my tanks that only vent at the top are much closer to 100% humidity than I would like them to be, in spite of having fairly substantial vents on top. There is just no substitute for venting from multiple locations (under the opening doors and at the top, in the case of most Zoomeds and Exoterras) that allows "passive" ventilation with convection from your lighting. It gives you more options for controlling humidity. I also hate the access issues associated with trying get my meaty elbow through a narrow opening at the top. Is it doable and cost effective to use tanks you have sitting around? Absolutely. Is it as convenient? Not in my experience, no.

Have fun with your frogs and vivarium!

Mark


----------



## skoomd (Dec 24, 2013)

Honestly I'd use the 75g. I find 20 long tanks to be awkward in size, too much ground space and NO vertical space. If you don't really care about aesthetics though, the 20g would be the easiest. 

If you have some time to invest and want a beautiful tank, the 75g is a perfect choice. It also leaves up a lot of options for plants, tank features, and how many/what kind of frogs you want.


----------

