# Nigri's



## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

8 out of 12 ain't bad


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

awesome! Congrats!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

*...*

Hey Trow, long time no chat....good job, pretty frogs. Got any blushing....shoot me a pm if you do and ever wanna get rid of some.  Hope the rest of your animals are doing well...especially some of those rarer less established ones  (not that you can pick up Nigri at any old pet shop)


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Cool, did those just come in or they ones you got a while ago? I'm still trying to put my group back together again  Where do you get some of these frogs lol.

Any details on set up and what not you've got going for them?


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

*Nigri woo hoo*










Look in the corner hahahahahaha.

They are laying like mad

corey the first pic is a small group of 12 I adopted cauz the person was slowly but surely killing them all but 8 made it through so I was happy to post a pic. 
I should have clarified that they arent cbb but it was late and I was in one of my insomniac trances.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Oh I figured they weren't CB, I'm just happy to get decently healthy stock period at this point. If those eggs go well, keep me in mind!


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

I'd like to adopt some as well...is there a list?


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## Devin Edmonds (Mar 2, 2004)

Great looking frogs! Have you noticed a size/morphological difference between male and female nigricans?


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

No I haven't when they are all close to each other the only cue I have seen is girth on the female's.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Nope no list just have a friend who import's and they give anyone my number who needs help with there mantella's.Most of the time they just give them to me because they arent what they expected which is good for someone like me but just think of all the poor frog's that dont find there way back to a hobbyist.Scary thought if you ask me.

Sorry about the reply devin it doesnt really answer your ?.I have seen no definitive differance in male's and female's within these frogs but one problem with me is that my setups dont allow me to view from all angle's so that may be an issue.Other than girth of a gravid girl I cant tell visually.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

trow
any tips to get these guys to breed? What other mantella are the similar too in conditions?? I have 4 nigri's that I got last april. They are doing great. I am cooling them down now for the winter in hopes of breeding sucess in the spring. I also have aurantiaca and keep both the nigri's and goldens in very similar setups under similar conditions.
What are you doing?


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Nigri's are actually imo similar in their care requirement's to laevigata.They are very arboreal much more than most mantella's other than lavi's.I think keeping your nigri's similar to your goldi's will be fine though.Maybe increase temp's and misting in your nigri tank.A few degrees will do try it see if they start calling which I assume they will if they arent already.

(What are you doing) 
Probally not much more than you are keep them clean and feed the hell out of them.They are pigs and they are messy I know it is impossible to have a sterile enviro but because they do crap so much and everywhere at that.I change the moss etc frequently more than most my frog's.I also microwave my spag moss to rid any nematode cysts,which are a absolute mantella egg killer.2minutes will kill just about anything that can live in that stuff(make sure you let cool for 20 minutes or so before using.I havent had any after effects nuking my moss thus far.
goodluck


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

sounds good, thanks for the tips. I suppose I could be cleaning their tank more frequently. I have sphagnum and magnolia over leca. 
The nigri's certainly appreciate the large number of powdered hydei I thow their way. They have gotten more aggresive toward feeding time then they were when they were first acclaimating to captivity. They just don't seem to be bulking up like say mu c.b. goldens are. The nigri's aren't too thin but aren't putting on any weight. Is this typical do you think (simply a more slender frog than a golden) or could they be carrying a large parasite load. They appear happy, active and healthy, good appetites, calling, climbimg etc...


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Possible in regards to parasite's but be careful treating them as sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.Just keep an eye on the slender one "s and make sure they are eating well also try and mix up there food a little small crickets,waxworms.actually anything that they will ingest is better than a complete diet of fruit fly's even if the flies are supplemented imo.Termites work really well in this regard. 
No nigri's get fat to just like all adult mantella's they have a tendency to overindulge during chow time.

But if you are that worried get a fecal done.I personally have never treated any of my mantella's simply because I dont feel it's needed some people do I dont.
Goodluck and keep in contact

Also eggs in pic are fertile so I am stoked.


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## Devin Edmonds (Mar 2, 2004)

hey, congrats! That's great news. I'm equally stoked.



> I have seen no definitive differance in male's and female's within these frogs


Yeah, they really seem to be more difficult to sex than other species. I pulled all 10 of mine out a few months ago to get a better look. The males call daily, and having had them now coming up on three years without finding any eggs I've been wondering if I have all males. some have a slightly more angular appearance than others but it's so subtle.

Keep us posted on those eggs.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Yeah it's a pain well I know I have both sexes.I just cant fathom you having all males out of a large group like that.Have you tried raising temps in conjunction with heavy misting and feeding.This seemed to work for me we had a cold snap well 56degrees for a day or two then temps went up into the eighties along with some rain and that seemed to trigger the response I was looking for. Temps in the enclosure were around 79 degrees but no lower than that.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

how long do you guys recommend for a cool down??

With my group of nigri's and golden's I dropped temps from 76-78 to 72-74 for the month of november, now in december they have been 68-70.

I was planning on going 65-66 for january then raising them up to 78 over the month of february. However I just read through my collection of mantella material and read that a cool down for 15-20 days is sufficient to induce breeding.

any thoughts on what's sufficient versus whats more natural and healthy for the frogs???


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Sufficient - bare minimum to do what you want to do

Natural - replicating their environment in the wild as close as possible

Healthy.... that's a whole other issue.... especially since we don't really know what the base line is. My opinion of healthy on this case? Likely somewhere inbetween "sufficient" and "natural" and the closer to "natural" the better (since that's what they evolved for). IMO - keep it as close to the natural seasons... which are longer than 15-20 days... less chance of overbreeding issues and healthier frogs in the long run. Taking it slower is better.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

I share the same opinion. I feel very privileged to have mantella nigrican as they are new to the hobby and seem rare (not sure of their status in the wild). I also don't take lightly the responsibility onvolved with owning mantella aurantiaca, as they are a CITES endaged species. I want to do all I can to keep the frogs healthy, under natural living conditions, and to have succesful breeding occur so other people can enjoy these great species. 
I've kept frogs for 8 years. I can't have many tanks or many species, so I've narrowed my collection down to these two for now. They are certainley some of my favorite frogs and I am happy to focus my efforts of providing the ultimate captive conditions for these guys


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

IMO - people try too hard to make a "pretty" mantella tank and give them more of a PDF jungle than what they actually like. My tanks look like crap, but my frogs are happy... it's the seasons and food that are more important with mantellas...

Nigricans have only been imported a few times and never in great numbers... but actually seem to have a relatively large range (for a mantella) in the wild. I wouldn't get their CITES and "endangered species" status confused, those are two different things (CITES is international trade of a species and is not an automatic status by their IUCN red list status) and Mantellas as a whole are not in great condition... and their status is even more suspect with the taxonomical chaos they seem to be in :shock: I'd consider all the propagation of any mantella to be of the importance that you'd give the goldens as the more CB available, the more the CB market can grow (it seems to be in a hard place right now because CBs just aren't available consistantly of species other than goldens) and you can follow the theory of a healthy population of breeding Mantellas in captivity may lessen the market for those species to be exported from Madagascar. 

Consider joining up with TWI and registering your animals... the taxon groups will be a great way to learn about animals such as these... there are a few people who've had pretty good success, and sharing information is a great part of the process of the ASN.


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## jerry b (Mar 30, 2007)

Not long after reading this post I applied your advice trow and it worked, kinda. I ended up with this clutch, but all of the eggs went bad a couple days after this pic.









They showed zero sign of development. If that doesn't look like a good clutch of eggs... 

I also cannot tell the difference in sex's. Big, round ones I would of swore were females ended up being males. 

How have your eggs faired Trow?

Jerry


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Nice clutch,sorry I havent responded lately I had some issues with this forum but thats neither here nor there.
Good I am glad your having success even if your eggs seem bad(for future referance) keep them.Take them out of the terrarium etc and wait and see if you have any tad's devolope.I have had huge clutche's 60 plus and only a handful are actually fertilized.
My egg's are now tadpoles and they are thriving and yes sexual differance with nigri's are hard to tell.You have both sexe's for sure just keep feeding the hell out of them and sit back and enjoy the show.
I have cowani,nigri's,bernhardi as well as haraldi tad's almost morphed.This has been a great winter but it took 2 year's to get here with these particular frog's other's are constant these arent ime.

Again goodluck


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## jerry b (Mar 30, 2007)

Sound's like a great winter! Congrat's! Can't wait to see some pics.

I kept them for a couple weeks. A couple days after that pic, they one by one started to turn yellow and shrink up.I scooped them out with a big spoon. I took some of the dirt as well, so not to disturb the eggs. I set that on wet spag moss in 16oz deli cup covered at warm room temp with frequent mistings, but they just shrank up to a snot puddle. You think maybe I killed them? How do you keep your eggs when you pull them? 

Thanks for the tips and hopefully I'll have tad questions someday. Good luck with your tads and def keep us posted on progress!

Thanks,
Jerry


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

One thing with spaghnum moss is if you dont nuke it you will have nematode's guaranteed.I have had more issue's with nematode's devouring my eggs than anything else until I started nuking the moss that is.Dont get me wrong I love the stuff and it is in all my setup's but so far I havent had any issue's with them since I started nukin it. I use termite's alot and these can and probally do help boost nematode count but atleast when I treat the moss I have a headstart.

I dont usually pull my egg's but when I do I put into a small deli cup with a lid and a few ventilation hole's.


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