# Froglet not able to catch food...



## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

Hey all,
Brand new here and brand new to PDF's! Had a question about one of my Auratus. He seems to be having problems catching his food...I'm offering him Springtails and Phoenix worms, but he has no interested in the Springtails. He seems more than interested in the Phoenix worms and goes after them like crazy, but cant seem to pick em up with his tongue? He snaps down to grab em but hasn't once been able to catch one. I've noticed they're a little hairy, I didn't know if he'd have problems grabbing a a hold of them or maybe if the hairs were wicking too much water and he couldn't get a good grasp? He seems scared of crickets and my FF's are a couple days out...any ideas?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

you say one of your auratus.. are the others accepting food readily?

james


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Age and size?

Dime, Nickle, Quarter size....

Did it morph out for you or did you aquire it?>


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

The others are accepting food just fine, they're all equally ravenous. I got him last Thursday(02/11) as a froglet. He's about 1/2"-2/3" long now.


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## calvinyhob (Dec 18, 2007)

have you tried fruit flys? How big are the worms your offering?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I would feed FF. That's probably what the breeder was feeding it exclusively.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I use a slice of a banana for a feeding station for my auratus froglets. Seems to help them find the ff's easier and keeps them off of the frogs.


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## calvinyhob (Dec 18, 2007)

Bcs TX said:


> I use a slice of a banana for a feeding station for my auratus froglets. Seems to help them find the ff's easier and keeps them off of the frogs.


Ill second this, ive actually started doing feeding stations in all my tanks now.  My froglets are getting fat though sittings around the bananas eating anything that moves all day


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

The Phoenix worms are tiny, about the size of FF, some a little larger, I've tried several of different sizes, he tries to catch them but literally cant seem to pick them up with his tongue. Its not a matter of being interested, he wants to eat them, but he just cant pick it up. He's starting to get discouraged, hes not trying to eat as much as he did before, he'll try 2 or 3 times and then hops off.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

PDFs hunt by sight and even if a FF stays very still the frog may not see it. perhaps the frog isnt becoming discouraged, but cant see the prey and moves elsewhere to find more food. i would personally separate it and try stunted melanogaster (if available) and try not to interfere too much as this can cause stress and compound the problem.

james


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

G3FiveX said:


> The Phoenix worms are tiny, about the size of FF, some a little larger, I've tried several of different sizes, he tries to catch them but literally cant seem to pick them up with his tongue. Its not a matter of being interested, he wants to eat them, but he just cant pick it up. He's starting to get discouraged, hes not trying to eat as much as he did before, he'll try 2 or 3 times and then hops off.


 
Time to get some FF......


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> Time to get some FF......


Yeah like right away. They're what you're going to wind up feeding mostly anyway, and you can dust them which you need to do.


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## hukilausurfer (Aug 31, 2009)

Maybe a vit A deficiency. Have you been dusting? Maybe not though since you've had it for such a small time.


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

I guess I'll just have to hold out for my FF's then! I don't know if there are any deficiencies yet, as I've only had him a few days, but I'll load on the dust to play it safe.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Where do you live? Chances are, there's another DB member close by and willing to get you a culture quickly.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

If there's a Petco near you you can buy a couple of cultures there, froglets shouldn't be "holding out" for food -


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm in Portsmouth, Va., next to Virginia Beach and Norfolk. All I've seen for chain stores is PetSmart. I've tried most of the local pet stores I can find, but none of them seem to carry them because they don't sell much at all. I'm new to the area and don't know any other PDF keepers so I can't really get any quicker cultures though I should have my FF's by Thursday?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Some Petsmarts sell FF.....


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

G3FiveX said:


> I'm in Portsmouth, Va., next to Virginia Beach and Norfolk. new to the area and don't know any other PDF keepers


But yet you posted here:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/southeast/46195-virginia-southern-maryland-frog-group.html

Its not fair to the froglet that it has to wait 5 days for FF.


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm not trying to starve the little guy here, I just posted that up yesterday. I was sent with food I was told he was eating. I ordered the FF's already and just need to get them. I don't know anyone down here and the chances of me finding someone local with cultures available before I'd get mine in the mail seemed unlikely.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

try posting a wanted ad reading something like "need FFs in virginia beach!"

james


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## ridinshotgun (Nov 28, 2007)

G3FiveX said:


> I'm not trying to starve the little guy here, I just posted that up yesterday. I was sent with food I was told he was eating. I ordered the FF's already and just need to get them. I don't know anyone down here and the chances of me finding someone local with cultures available before I'd get mine in the mail seemed unlikely.


Check the VA froggers thread. I've got some but a meet up might not be possible to Wed.


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks, I'll check now.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah you also need to plan for the likelihood that lots of times ff's arrive dead in the mail, especially in this weather. Go to Petco's website, find the store closest to you, call them and ask if they carry ff's, and there are probably plenty of DB members within an hour or two of you that you can search and pm tonight, make it your MISSION to get some cultures tomorrow, froglets should be eating daily at the least


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

I'll find some tomorrow no matter what, even if I have to go to Walmart and catch em out of the produce section myself. What's my next step going to be if it still doesn't work though? I know I need FF's, but no ones been able to give me a reason or guess as why hes trying to eat the Phoenix worms but cant actually lick them up. Hatchling crickets have even been a no go.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

No offense to Phoenix Worms but in my experience my frogs do not eat them, especially young frogs (I tried them with my auratus 3-4 mos. old). Definately not a staple to a diet more like a treat. Sorry you are having a hard time finding fruitflys, the weather has been cold lately in many areas including here in Texas. Check with the Petco's in your area, keep calm he will probably be ok unless terribly thin. Put an ad in the "wanted" section here to find froggers in your area, if you need assistance with that please pm me. Maybe a local Petstore will have some "pinhead" crickets - very very small, they can be dusted as well.

-Beth


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your help and advice, but I feel as though the point is kind of being missed. I'll get FF's tomorrow and let you all know how it goes.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I think the point is.....the froglet would have been better off with FF and not phoenix worms.

I'm willing to bet if it had quality dusted FF instead of worms.....it would be eating just fine about now.


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm trying to feed him with what they came with and doing the best I can until I can get what he needs and apparently letting my frustration get the best of me.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

and we'll help you.....no problem.

It's just strange that someone would recommend phoenix worms with a froglet. I have never heard of such a thing.....


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

I know, I don't know PDF's as well as the rest of my herps, but the one thing I think everyone with any knowledge knows is PDF's eat FF's and the like. I don't know of ANY worm that can be a suitable staple in any herps diet. I don't even know why the springtails were included as they're not even noticed anymore they're so small. He's got plenty of energy and gusto to him so he should make it through fine, but I'm hoping there isn't more to the problem than just the type of food. MBD and any deficiencies are such a buzz-kill and preventable so I just hope its bad diet choice and not something more serious.


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## Malaki33 (Dec 21, 2007)

Dude,

When are your fruit fly expected? I live in richmond and am willing to help you out tonight if I need too this guy needs to be fed, respond to me via PM and let me know the deal, and how far you are willing to drive to get some FF's I will meet you part way.


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## Malaki33 (Dec 21, 2007)

5900 East Virginia Beach Boulevard
Norfolk, VA 23502
757-455-2810

Monday - Friday 10AM - 9PM
Saturday 10AM - 9PM
Sunday 10AM - 7PM Full-Service Grooming
Dog Training
Pet Photography
Aquatics Department
NOW OPEN
12.5 miles 
This is the Address of a Petco near you, Call them and see if they have any fruit flys, they usually carry Heidi


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## D's Darts (Apr 8, 2009)

Sound like he may have a mineral deficiacy. 
Do you dust every time you feed them?
If not, you should.
Just a suggestion.

Good Luck !


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

Ok, so I got FF's today and no luck :-/ I dusted them, as well as the Phoenix worms to see if that would give them a little more tackiness and to no avail still :-/


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

You most likely have a problem with that froglet that you cannot control or correct since you are inexperienced with dart frogs.

Not necessarily your fault....just a bad situation.

If you really want to try to help that frog, I would contact the 3 or 4 local people that responded to this thread and see if one of them can take possession of the froglet and try to make some progress with it from a more experienced standpoint.

I have done this locally and completely turned around frogs that were almost literally at death's door and circling the drain - so to speak.

You probably have just a few days before it starts down that path and can't be turned around.

For a small froglet, time is much more critical than with a larger frog with a little more reserves. 

My advice.....


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

My inexperience with Dart Frogs has no impact on the DF's inability to actually eat the food I'm providing on his own. You're slightly accusatory and condescending attitude towards my knowledge, experience, and search for help is not an aid in fixing the problem either.
A quick update on the frog himself for anyone who's interested, I have gotten him to eat and he's in much better spirits. I found several house spiderlings in my bathroom yesterday and with a little patience, I was able to get the frog to eat them out of a pair of tweezers, then I was able to do the same thing with FF's. He seems to still be having problems catching anything loose in the tank, but I put him in a deli cup today with the lid on and put numerous FF's in with him and he had much better luck eating on his own. I honestly don't get what the issue is, but I guess he's going to take a little more work than I had expected


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

A lot of human empathy and emotion gets lost or misinterpreted in the quick and abbreviated world of text communcation on these type of forums.

I assure you that no disrespect or condemnation was intended or implied.

Glad to hear that your froglet is finally eating....thats the main thing.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah maybe you should raise him in his own 5 gallon tank or something with extra attention till he puts on some good size -


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

G3FiveX said:


> . I don't know of ANY worm that can be a suitable staple in any herps diet.


Actually earthworms that are from soils that contain calcium, are one of the only commonly used feeders that have a positive calcium to phosphorus ratio... so they do make good feeders... 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

G3FiveX said:


> Ok, so I got FF's today and no luck :-/ I dusted them, as well as the Phoenix worms to see if that would give them a little more tackiness and to no avail still :-/


If the frog is suffering from insufficient vitamin A (as retinol/retinyl) then the tongue loses it's stickyness resulting in a inability to capture food items. If this is what is going on then unless the frog is given a source of vitamin A as retinol/retinyl palmitate (and not beta carotene), the problem will not resolve itself. This condition has been nicknamed short tongue syndrome or SLS. 

Ed


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

Makes sense! I know a lot of Chameleons can suffer from the same issues, though they are usually related to dehydration and/or MBD to some extent. Do you think gut loading pinheads with eggs/cheese/dairy would be a more effective way to deliver the necessary amounts of Retinol/retinyl palmitate or can you recommend a more appropriate dust/supplement?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

G3FiveX said:


> Makes sense! I know a lot of Chameleons can suffer from the same issues, though they are usually related to dehydration and/or MBD to some extent. Do you think gut loading pinheads with eggs/cheese/dairy would be a more effective way to deliver the necessary amounts of Retinol/retinyl palmitate or can you recommend a more appropriate dust/supplement?


attempting to gut load with dairy is going to be of very limited use.. If the frog is really having problems, you will need to get a liquid source of retinol and have it diluted so you don't over dose the frog. Check with a vet to see what they think about a drop on the back or whether it would need to be adminstered orally. 

Ed


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## G3FiveX (Feb 15, 2010)

Awesome, will do and thanks for the help


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