# First viv build - could I have some help with plants?



## Cynder (Jun 5, 2018)

Hey everyone! I'm building a vivarium for my crested gecko Scully in an 18x18x24 ExoTerra to be her final adult home. I've ordered everything I need and went out and bought some plants (which I probably should have done AFTER I received the ExoTerra so I'd have a better visual of the space I'll have but...oh well) and I've been researching everything obsessively but still find myself worried about plant care.

Here are the plants I have:








(Lemon button fern, ZZ plant, 'bush on fire' croton, some sort of snake plant, some sort of pothos. 17 oz bottle for scale.)

I also ordered 2 bromeliads and a wandering jew which should come in a few days.

My main question is: how would you suggest I arrange these plants in the viv? Are there certain ones which would grow better in the back vs the front? I'm using NEHerp's vivarium substrate and a cork bark background, also from NEHerp, which comes with several cork bark planters I can attach. I'll be mointing the bromeliads on the background and I was planning on maybe putting the wandering jew in one of the planters if it fits, so that the vines can trail down the background. Would that work? Could I just use the same substrate and make a hole in the bottom of the planter for drainage?

I also have this cork bark round I was planning on just placing on the ground like a log:








Could any of the plants I have grow directly on top of that without substrate, if I packed some moss around the roots maybe?

I was also wondering if I should trim any of these plants back before I put them in, and how best to do that.

Lastly I'm wondering how much I should be misting these. Once Scully moves in I'll be misting to get the humidity up to around 90% and then allowing for a dry-out period to 50-60% before misting again. Should I keep it more humid than this during the plants' acclimation period? Do I need to be watering them if I'm already misting every day?

Sorry for all the newbie questions and thanks so much in advance for your help!


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

Your ZZ plant shouldn't be used because it is a toxic plant and it gets around 2' tall. The Snake plant (Mother in law) will get way to big for any sized tank. I would also say drop the wandering jew, it grows insanely fast and will need to be trimmed like every week and will start making the tank look bad with runner roots.
The Broms you ordered will be fine mounted on the back, you can use moss if you like but I've never found it a must.
As for the misting. Get the soil good and moist right after planting them and then move into what you expect your normal misting routine to be.


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## Cynder (Jun 5, 2018)

Yeah I assumed I'd have to take the ZZ out eventually once it got too big but the nursery I got it at said it was a slow grower so I thought I'd have a while. I'll rethink it though due to the size and toxicity, I had assumed it was ok because lots of people say they've used it for cresteds and NEHerp sells it but I want to be safe about it.

Can the snake plant be trimmed down so it doesn't get too tall? If not, what's a smaller snake plant I could use?

I'm aware that the wandering jew will grow fast and I'm prepared to trim it a lot, I do want to use it because I like how it looks and I was hoping it would provide background cover. Would planting it in one of the background planters work? 

Thank you for answering!


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## SirGunther (Jun 4, 2014)

Cynder said:


> I'm aware that the wandering jew will grow fast and I'm prepared to trim it a lot, I do want to use it because I like how it looks and I was hoping it would provide background cover. Would planting it in one of the background planters work?
> 
> Thank you for answering!


The problem I've found with ficus, is that it forms a green mat over a leafless, branchy undergrowth. This means that after a while you get to a point that when you trim it, you are either stuck with a bare, dead looking patch of undergrowth, or it continually expands the background into the main part of the viv, turning the whole thing into a giant bush. It looks great at first, but I will never use it in a viv again, and I have a fairly slow-growing variety. It's not worth the trouble, imo.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> The Snake plant (Mother in law) will get way to big for any sized tank.


Maybe, maybe not. Here are 2 possible routes to "not":

1) Maybe it's a dwarf cultivar, or a smaller species. These are commonplace nowadays, and increasing in diversity. Some stay well under a foot tall - they're more like a solitary basal rosette, than a waist-high stand of leather swords (like the original, wild-morph, common species).

2) Just bonsai it:


> Could any of the plants I have grow directly on top of that without substrate, if I packed some moss around the roots maybe?


This is one way to bonsai it. Another would be to simply restrict its rooting zone in normal substrate. Anyway as for mounting, I have mounted a small Sansevieria, and it is doing great. It hasn't grown much but it looks happy, plump, and bright green. I'm happy with it, and will do that again.

That Croton is going to want bright light (like the broms). And to dry between waterings (the zz plant would feel the same about water, but not about light). Everything else you've got pictured, is going to be happier with moderate light and no real drying out between waterings. Also, happy Crotons are large plants. Like, little trees...but they can also be bonsai-treated with small rooting zones and judicious pruning.

The fundamental issue is you have not attended to plant needs / realities - you have some that will do well with steady moisture, and/or dim light. You have others that are going to want to dry out between waterings, and/or bright light. I would think the crestie would do better under the moist/dry regime than the constant-humid regime, and that as long as it has a decent hide the light level is immaterial...but I do not actually know those things. I suggest you go with the plants that will thrive under what the gecko needs.

I have used zz plants for years in large snake vivaria. No problem, quite useful in fact; and holy toughness! Almost as immortal as Sansevieria. Ha ha ha. They can get pretty big, but like I keep repeating - _bonsai_. Plants are sort of like fish, in that they will scale to the size of their enclosure (with terrestrial plants, that's _the volume of their growth media_). I would think the zz plant would be a great choice for pretty large, fairly active/hoppy lizards like cresties. Perhaps in a larger enclosure than yours however (unless you just remove every leaf before it gets too big - each long thing coming out of the base is an individual leaf).

Good luck!


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## Cynder (Jun 5, 2018)

Thanks so much for your help guys--am realizing now that I definitely rushed into picking out plants, I was considering the hardiness of each plant when I picked them out since cresties can be rough on more delicate plants but I didn't think enough about the water/light needs. I do have a little while to decide which to use and which to swap out because as three of these are from Walmart and two from a large nursery I'll need to quarantine them for a while (another thing I didn't consider; I'll probably order all plants from places like NEHerp and Josh's Frogs in the future)

I'm going to be using 2 13W Jungle Dawns--I'm guessing this would be cosidered bright light? The tank will also be receiving indirect sunlight from a window but I could always move it if that ends up being too much for the plants on top of the LEDs.

Wow, looks like I need to do some reading about bonsai! I didn't know planting substrate-less was a method of keeping plants smaller but that does make sense.


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## rtbaum (Mar 15, 2017)

Hey...Don't feel bad. We've all been there. Some of us never learn, I just ordered an orchid that turned out to be waaaay larger than I anticipated for my tank!!


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> Hey...Don't feel bad. We've all been there.


Exactly. "There is no pre-loaded software in this hardware, but there's a lot of RAM." You've done the right thing by seeking and finding the required info. 

Another source I highly recommend is the Sunset garden book (there are regional variants, like Western, Southern, and Northeastern). Buy for whatever region you're in and it'll cover you very well outdoors; all regional variants have pretty identical info for tropical plants that are likely to be kept inside. There's a big section of the book that's alphabetical by genus - you can look up genus by common name (e.g. ZZ = Zamioculcas, pothos = Epipremnum) on the internet, or in the book. Common plants' common names will be in the book, which will give you the genus and then you flip to that for the full account. Some people today think books are anachronistic - _that is a grave mistake_. Buy this book and you'll never once regret it.



> I didn't know planting substrate-less was a method of keeping plants smaller


Uhh...it's more about restricting rooting volume for terrestrial plants. The way you've phrased it could invite confusion with epiphytes, hydroponic or aeroponic systems, etc etc.

Consider citrus. You can keep even a grapefruit (the largest of all citrus trees) pretty darn small in a 5-gallon pot, for a human lifetime or more, with pruning. Put it in the right ground though - whoa, galloping monster. Up to the power lines in a couple decades. And just as wide. Pushy bugger too. 

So - one of those plants you can keep as a "house pet", the other is more of a "farm animal". But they began with identical potential - it was all in the horticulture. Regardless, a deeper dive into bonsai would likely also not be something you'd ever regret. Our hobby IMO neglects the possibilities of woody plants due to space considerations...



> I'm guessing this would be cosidered bright light?


I have a bunch of those bulbs but not your vivs. They are pretty bright, but their reach isn't all that impressive. Someone else could probably chime in with a more technical response, talking footcandles or something. I think the NE Herp site has a tool for calculating recommended lighting for different heights & footprints. Play around there and see what you can find. They definitely have a nice "lighting 101" page that ought to help steer you straight.

Finally, there's nothing wrong with using common plants from the local grocery store. Some stuff they sell tends to die for most people, but for the most part it's fairly bulletproof. Plus, no shipping and easy returns if you change your mind. The specialty places you mentioned are excellent for filling specific wants and needs, but nobody HAS to use them. We just love them, ha ha ha.

Cheers


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## rtbaum (Mar 15, 2017)

A good source of inexpensive plants is the clearance aisle at Lowes or Home Depot near the plant section. Best thing is if they get unruly, you can pull them and not feel guilty. If you want to splurge a bit, I can recommend Louisiana Orchid. They are the best orchid supplier that I have found, hands down.


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