# Roaches in my viv?



## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Yepp, this sucks!! I built my 36" tall x 24 x 19 Exo Terra for my Vanzolinii about 6 months ago. I had absolutly not seen my vanzo's in a few weeks, which is really unusual cuz theres 6 of them. So I decide to go on a "where the hell are those frogs search". I started by examining the outside sides of the viv, cuz all three inside walls are covered in tree fern panel, to see if the frogs had been gettign behind the tree fern. Nope, no frogs. JUst a 1/2" long roach! So..I've made several attempts at stickign a coathanger through the tree fern to stab it an kill it with no luck. The slightest vibration and it scurries away. Now, having tried this several times, I've seen 3-4 of these. I'm pretty certain these are American Cockraoches, which get to be huge, 1-1/2". None are adult and they have no wings yet.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

(I just pm'd you this, but since you've started a thread I figured I'd post it here as well.)

Before you tear down that tank you might want to try this little trick, it is nearly miraculous.

Put a small mason jar with a bit of cheese or a bit of peanut butter/pb oil (like from the top of a jar of the natural stuff) and place it in your viv at lights out. Make sure that when you place them in their the roaches can get in, because they can't climb up clean gas. If you come back around a half hour later the roaches will often be in the jars. Then you just cap the jars and pull them out.

Strangely, this works. I've done this at places I've lived that have roach problems.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

So, in the last few weeks, I've realized that using broms in this size of tank with the vanzo's was a mistake....at least if breeding/production was a goal, as its impossible to harvest eggs/tads. So, being as I was already toying with the ideal, I went ahead and tore removed the broms, which I had to do anyway to get my prized vanzos out. So, excpet for one frog that has himself wedged inside a piece of driftwood, the other 5 vanzos are now in a temporary 10 gallon vert. So, to get to the point, is there any way I'm goign to get these friggign roaches out without ripping out hundred of dollars worth of tree fern panel and malaysian driftwood that all siliconed/GS'd in place?? It has to be 100 % successful because i also have to worry about these guys escaping the viv and infesting my house, which to my knowledge they currently have not done.


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

easternversant said:


> (I just pm'd you this, but since you've started a thread I figured I'd post it here as well.)
> 
> Before you tear down that tank you might want to try this little trick, it is nearly miraculous.
> 
> ...


Pulled from above post...


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

frog dude said:


> Pulled from above post...


I have used 8 oz deli cups like those used for shipping, I cut a hole in the center of the lid a little larger than the roach and put a dab of peanut butter or banana in the cup, put the lid on and when the lights and room will be dark, place in the tank. Get a piece of tape the size of which will cover the hole.After being dark for 30 min check for roach. If you catch one,put the tape over the hole and freeze it.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, the bait station in a jar/deli cup did not work. Checked it numerous times through-out the night. They are staying behind the tree fern panels. So.....I've tore out all the plants except moss and potted them up for temporary safe keeping. But damnit, one of my Vanzo's is in hiding. Got the other 5 out...the last one had himself wedged in a tight spot in the Malyasian driftwood. I figured he'd come out eventually. Well, he's no longer in that spot, but I have no idea where hes at now. I gotta find him soon. Since removing the roaches 1 by 1 is not going to be effective, I'm going to have to kill them "en masse". Firtst thought was to put the entire viv into a freezer for a few days. Its just a little to wide and deep to fit though, and pesticides obviously are NOT an option. So......if I can control the temp eough, my thought now is to put a small 12 x 12 x 12 ceramic heater/fan in the viv and get the temp up to 175-180 and just cook them for a few hours. My only worry is it would get hot enough to damage the plastic door frames. My last option is to strip the entire tank and start over from scratch which I really DO NOT want to do. Theres an 80 pound piece of Malysian driftwood GS'd to the back. This is a nightmare!


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

CO2 was a thought also....but I would have to get a huge tank of CO2, tape off the entire viv and keep it 100% CO2 for a day or two at least. Anyone have any experience in this?


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

On the bright side.....I found a healthy clutch of 3 tadpoles developing on one of the brom leaves. I'm certain that the vanzo left in the viv is the male to that pair though. Grrrrr!!!!


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## kthehun89 (Jul 23, 2009)

Dude, stop freaking out and get some dry ice to suffocate them...


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

kthehun89 said:


> Dude, stop freaking out and get some dry ice to suffocate them...


oh yeah that's great so he can kill a $100 frog? i don't think you heard him correctly.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

If you can remove the soil and the frog you might consider submerging the tank in a tub of water to drown them.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Stop freaking out? Have you seen adult American Roaches? They are the largest pest roach in the united states. The only thing worse is German cockraoches...they're smaller but they reproduce ten-fold. I'll ge them out of the viv enventually, but I dont want a 3000 sq ft $500k home filled with roaches. And I echo what Curlykid said.....I can't gas them or cook them until I get that last Vanzo out. But yes, I appreciate the dry ice idea/tip.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Bill, I like the idea of submerging it and drowning them. However, this Exo Terra is a 24 x 18 x 36, a 75 gallon Tall. I dont have anything even approaching that size to submerge the tank.

Also...look what I found: CO2 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11297104 and Hot and Cold http://lancaster.unl.edu/pest/roach/roach6eng.pdf


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## kthehun89 (Jul 23, 2009)

Newsflash...you probably have roaches already and you just don't know it. Infact I'd say its 100% sure you do. Now, you don't have an infestation, and you wont unless you're a hoarder really (or just stupidly messy). I found the same large cockroach in my Alanis tank, and it was a beeoootch to get rid of. I removed my frogs and gassed him and that was that. 

Good luck getting rid of it. I'd continue to try the jar trap with various foods if you can't get the other vanzo out


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

pdfCrazy said:


> Well, the bait station in a jar/deli cup did not work. Checked it numerous times through-out the night. They are staying behind the tree fern panels. So.....I've tore out all the plants except moss and potted them up for temporary safe keeping. But damnit, one of my Vanzo's is in hiding. Got the other 5 out...the last one had himself wedged in a tight spot in the Malyasian driftwood. I figured he'd come out eventually. Well, he's no longer in that spot, but I have no idea where hes at now. I gotta find him soon. Since removing the roaches 1 by 1 is not going to be effective, I'm going to have to kill them "en masse". Firtst thought was to put the entire viv into a freezer for a few days. Its just a little to wide and deep to fit though, and pesticides obviously are NOT an option. So......if I can control the temp eough, my thought now is to put a small 12 x 12 x 12 ceramic heater/fan in the viv and get the temp up to 175-180 and just cook them for a few hours. My only worry is it would get hot enough to damage the plastic door frames. My last option is to strip the entire tank and start over from scratch which I really DO NOT want to do. Theres an 80 pound piece of Malysian driftwood GS'd to the back. This is a nightmare!


That is too hot and your heat would be too direct. I've actually done a good bit of research on heat treatment for insect control. 130 F will give you a 100% kill on the German roach in 7 minutes. That means adults, babies, and eggs. You need to keep in mind, though, that the heat needs to penetrate deep into your substrate, tree fern, etc. Make sure you remove all standing water from the false bottom as that would be a huge heatsink.
Putting a heater in the viv will most likely crack it. You would need a small shed or a small room that you can put the viv in, and then safely raise the rooms temperature to 125 to 130 degrees. Once you reach 125 F, you would want to hold it there for a couple hours to insure full penetration. This gentler, more diffused, heat, will be much safer to try on your viv.

When you heat treat an entire house for bugs, the recommendations will vary some, but 4 hours at 140 F is what many exterminators use. You have to make sure that anything highly flammable is removed, also pressurized cans must be removed. 

You can find information on making DIY luggage, or couch heaters online. Try googling DIY bedbug heat chamber and you'll find some ideas.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

The heat treatment is the route I'll be going. Planning on making a tent of some sort to keep in the heat, and slowly raise the heat level, theres a proportional rhesostat/thermostat on the fan heater, and Ill monitor the temp till it gets up to 130-140 and try to keep the temp there for a few hours at least to make sure that the heat penetrates to all areas of the viv. All the subtrate is out now except the hydroton which I'll take out soon. Very frustrated I cant find my last missing vanzo. He's in there. I could see him last night wedged in the driftwood and he wouldnt come out. I didnt want to poke at him. I cant see him now. He didnt come out all day today. Cant do anything to till I get him out. No frog left behind!


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

I am in Florida and have dealt with the American roach for years. I find for me they would enter tanks as babys, easily overlooked, hitching a ride on the moss and plants, and have seen them actually hunting flies alongside tincs, and devouring herptavite in the tanks. They do get large, and down here they fly, outdoors at night especialy after rain, I hate them!


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Yepp, I have family down there. Its been a LONG time since I've been there, but I remember them outside, in resturaunts, all over.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

*UPDATE! Re: Roaches in my viv?*

Well, was getting antsy to fry these roaches this morning. So I went digging around trying to get Mr. Vanzo to come out of hiding. Found him tucked deep into a crevice between the tree fern panle and the big Malaysian driftwood log. Tried to prod him out with no luck, just wedged himself deeper. So I did the only thing a self respecting frog addict would do.....I tore into the tree fern panel piece by piece to extricate him. He looked a little freaked out....and a little thin, but healthy and hopping. Into the temp 10 vert he went.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, creating a heated tent with various materials didnt work. I simply could not get the interior temps in the viv up where they needed to be. So, I put the heater INTO the viv. My digital temp gauge goes up to 160. At first I kept the temp about 130, the Isopods and raoches seemed like they could care less about the temp. So I turned the knob gradually. Finally the interior temp exceeded the 160 max on the gauge. Iso's springtails, nematodes all still crawling around behind the tree fern panel. The exterior glass temp measures about 110 towards the bottom, and over 150 at the top. Buggs still roaming like its a just a sauna bath. WTF!?!?!?! I'm hesitant to go much hotter. This has been sustained heat like this for over 8 hours now.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, I wont be satisfied untill everything in that tank is exterminated. So I spun the dial on the heater all the way. First roach just dropped dead! I killed 2 earlier by sticking a poker through the tree fern panel into their bodies and tearing them apart. A little longer in the oven, I can begin rebuilding.


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## Tricolor189 (Sep 17, 2012)

i hate roaches!they sell these non toxic glue traps that attract roaches for about $1 where ever they sell pesticides and such i would use those if i were you.


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## c81kennedy (Dec 24, 2010)

Has anyone tried using boric acid . IV just flash lighted my dark tanks and have tons of roaches in almost of the tanks. I never see them during the day . I cant heat up all of my tanks and don't wanna kill my micro fauna.


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have a tank that had some roaches that would come out of the wood work and eat fruit flies whenever put them in. In the prediciment that youv found yourself in, I tried manually killing them with no success. I did nothing, lamasi were fine, and are still breeding, and the roaches went extinct for whatever reason.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well......its a success, and a failure. Couldnt believe the temps these guys were able to stand and for how long. It wasnt untill the temps started getting up really high in there (160+) that the roaches started freaking out...coming out of their hidign spots, and looking for somwhere to run. Fortunately when they did that, they exposed themselves to the full force of the heat and dropped dead rigt there. However, and I knew this was a risk when I started, the heat cracked some glass. Luckily, it was NOT any glass that was a part of the terrarium. My false bottoms are usually glass instead of eggcrate siliconed in at an angle so water drains to the front where theres a runnoff pool, euro style. You can see the build pics here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/80412-build-pics-exo-terra-24-x-18-x-36-a.html


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

The breakage you experienced is because glass does NOT like to expand and contract. Done unevenly, it will break. This is why I recommended heating a small room. If you can heat the entire room to 140 for 4 hours, the heat will eventually travel through the whole viv, and give you a complete kill.
If done evenly, with enough air flow to spread the heat throughout the room, breakage should not occur.
By putting the heater IN the viv, parts of the glass bear the direct heat (160+), while other areas of the glass may only be 90 or 100 F.

I'm not trying to say, "I told you so", and I hope it is still structurally sound. I felt I should say something, as I recommended heat. I just wanted to point out that this was not how I recommended applying the heat.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Doug, I feel you owe me a new 36 x 18 x 24 Exo Terra as I followed your recomendation on this. I would however, accept a few reticulata or benedicta instead. Just kidding! No, I knew the risk I was taking. I have no heater/equipment able to get any room up to, or above 130-140 degrees so this was my only option short of renting something. The tank is structurally intact and didnt break any part of the terrarium itself, just glass I'd added. It looks right now to have been effective, I've only found dead roaches. My orange Iso's lived through it if you can believe that!! Those are one tough little bug!


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Congrats on killing them....Guess it isnt roaches we have to worry about after a nuclear war....It's the isopods.

sent from my Galaxy S lll


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks! It wasnt easy. I guess I'll close out this thread. I'll load ppics of the rebuild in the original build thread for this Viv http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/80412-build-pics-exo-terra-24-x-18-x-36-a.html and if I have a recurrence of these buggers I'll post back here again. Thanks for the help and advice guys!


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