# first vivarium for a beginner



## corbosman (Jul 8, 2012)

Hey all, im a beginner when it comes to vivariums and im planning to make my first tank soon. I have plenty of experience with aquariums, so im not totally new to the concepts. Im thinking of starting with a 18x18x24 exo-terra. I stopped with my aquarium hobby some years ago because I got too busy with running my own company. The drive to have something again has gotten so strong, i want to pick the hobby back up and switch to vivariums/paludariums. But I want everything to run as automated as possible in case i run into some busy spells again. 

Some questions I have.

- would it be too much to go for a GS background type vivarium from the start? If I look around at shops all you see is turf based backgrounds, but I really prefer the GS foam look. 

- In a lot of builds on this forum i see people using simple in-tank pumps. Is that a money issue? From the aquarium world ive always been using outside filter/pumps. Is one preferred over the other for vivariums? My goal is to create a waterfall type feature over some wood, but also to keep the few inches of standing water filtered. 

- Since I want it to be as automated as possible, i suppose I need a mister? This is mostly to keep the orchids watered? (at this time im not yet planning on any animals)

- Should I just buy the light system from exo-terra that you can get for the terrarium im planning to buy? (Dual Top Canopy)

- i have a real love for orchids, so id like to have a lot of small tropical orchids in this tank. Am I right in concluding i would need to create some airflow using fans for such a tank? This would also keep the glass clean? 

- im planning on using the ABG recipe on top of a false bottom. Good? 

- maybe not yet relevant, but eventually i want to have multiple tanks. Are there any commercial systems able to switch pumps/lights/misters etc on multiple tanks? Or better to use one per tank? Any preferred brands? 

All of this is just to get some experience before I start building a larger tank.

Any help greatly appreciated,

Cor


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

I don't know about the pumps, But usually water features are frowned upon for vivariums, but if this is just a display and you will not put any frogs in it, then a water feature should be fine. I have heard they are a huge pain in the butt to maintain, though. 

as for the GS background, I have heard it is fairly easy to build and a lot of beginners use it. you should be fine. 

you can buy the duel exo-terra hood, but it is not really necessary. as long as the proper lighting is provided, then either that or a regular hood should be ok.

yes, ABG would work on top of the false bottom, as long as you provide a substrate barrier in between the false bottom and ABG. 

If you want the viv as self-sustaining as possible, then a mistking system with a timer would definitely work. 

another way to make it super self-sustaining is to drill the glass. here is how: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/58594-how-drill-your-glass.html

Why drilling the glass is helpful: so you can put some plastic tubing in the hole (long enough to reach a bucket under or behind the stand. You'll see why later), silicone it there on both side, ( here's a good thread on that. read the first few posts:http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76581-pumilos-75-corner-viv.html) and let it cure. once the water level reaches up to the hole it will spill into the tubing, and if the tubing is long enough, the water goes into a bucket under/behind the stand so you will not have to drain it yourself.

Good luck.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

- would it be too much to go for a GS background type vivarium from the start? If I look around at shops all you see is turf based backgrounds, but I really prefer the GS foam look. 


GS is easy. My first build was GS and it came out great.


- In a lot of builds on this forum i see people using simple in-tank pumps. Is that a money issue? From the aquarium world ive always been using outside filter/pumps. Is one preferred over the other for vivariums? My goal is to create a waterfall type feature over some wood, but also to keep the few inches of standing water filtered. 

For me, its a matter of being scared to drill glass but since you are aquaria builder extraordinaire, no problem for you!! Go for it.


- Since I want it to be as automated as possible, i suppose I need a mister? This is mostly to keep the orchids watered? (at this time im not yet planning on any animals)


with a waterfall you won't need to mist much but you'll need to mist some for sure. I suppose it depends on how much $$ the automation is worth to you.






- im planning on using the ABG recipe on top of a false bottom. Good? 

Yes. Excellent.


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## corbosman (Jul 8, 2012)

frog dude: why are water features frowned upon? Dangerous for the frog? Im only putting one in to gain some experience with waterfalls, as my end goal is to make a large paludarium.



BethInAK said:


> - In a lot of builds on this forum i see people using simple in-tank pumps. Is that a money issue? From the aquarium world ive always been using outside filter/pumps. Is one preferred over the other for vivariums? My goal is to create a waterfall type feature over some wood, but also to keep the few inches of standing water filtered.
> 
> For me, its a matter of being scared to drill glass but since you are aquaria builder extraordinaire, no problem for you!! Go for it.


Actually, I dont want to drill the tank. I may want to use this tank for an aquarium at some point again, and large holes near the bottom tend to not work well  I have a few pumps that pump water over the top of the tank to an outside filter and then back in. 

But I was thinking about this later. Maybe all those pumps are way too powerful for a simple waterfall, and thats why no one does this. A waterfall pump may not be able to pump the water over the top of the tank. I suppose I could fix that by putting a T on the incoming line, and an adjustable faucet on the waterfall end and let the other end just end up below the false bottom. Then I can change the waterfall flow even with a powerful pump.

Ive got a couple of these spare: http://www.eheimna.com/products/detail/Classic , they should work right? They're probably major overkill for this. Anyone have any recommendations for a smaller pump to create a filtered waterfall without drilling holes?


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

as far as your question about a controller for multiple tanks, most controllers are made just for one tank but you can rig it for multiple by using surge protectors off of each channel from the controller, just don't exceed the wattage the controller is meant to handle. The thing is this, that if you have the lights to come on and off via the controller, then they will all go on and off at that time. And for things that switch on off based on temp readings (heat mats or cooling fans) and humidity (misters, foggers) you can only have one probe that triggers these functions which means your temp and humidity gadgets will kick on and off based on the readings from whatever tank the probe is in. So if you had say 3 tanks, and the probe is in tank 1 and the humidity drops below your set point and you have your mister to turn on when that happens and you have one mister running all your tanks than all 3 are going to get misted even though tank 2 and 3's humidity may be fine. Same goes for temp stuff

here are some of the controllers used by herpers

EcoZone Vivarium - Vivarium Controllers provide Naturalistic Habitats for Reptiles and Herps. Programmable proportional Temperature, Lighting, and Mister Control
Spyder Robotics
Digital Aquatics Online Store


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## corbosman (Jul 8, 2012)

Im thinking of rigging the electronics up by myself using a touch display, an arduino, a raspberry pi, and multiple sensors/switches. Then I have full control over everything, can make long term graphs, can control individual elements using the touch display, can send myself emails when things pass certain values, etc. 

Once a geek always a geek.

But im getting ahead of myself, first just start with a simple tank to try some stuff. Went to a local shop today and they've got almost everything in store that ive been looking for except for plants.


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

corbosman said:


> frog dude: why are water features frowned upon? Dangerous for the frog? Im only putting one in to gain some experience with waterfalls, as my end goal is to make a large paludarium.



I have to admit, water features are cool in a viv, but they aren't very practical for a viv with frogs. They are usually only frowned upon when your are putting one in with dart frogs because they use up land space that the frog would have liked better then water and they pose a risk of drowning your frogs if you don't do it right, and because the are hard to maintain. 
But if you aren't planning on putting any frogs in it and using this for practice for a big future palu then I say go for it!


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

corbosman said:


> frog dude: why are water features frowned upon? Dangerous for the frog? Im only putting one in to gain some experience with waterfalls, as my end goal is to make a large paludarium.
> 
> 
> Actually, I dont want to drill the tank. I may want to use this tank for an aquarium at some point again, and large holes near the bottom tend to not work well  I have a few pumps that pump water over the top of the tank to an outside filter and then back in.



my understanding is that water features are frowned upon because they are a) unnecessary points of failure ( often don't work, cause water wicking etc) and b) aren't something a dart frog needs or uses, and c) could potentially be a hazard for poison dart frogs, who are apparently crappy swimmers. This is all heresay, as I don't own any dart frogs. 


Ok, so no drilling (cool! off to check it out!) you gotta make sure there are no holes in the lid because frogs and fruit flies like to escape (apparently also). What will you do for a lid?


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## corbosman (Jul 8, 2012)

Im thinking of buying an exo-terra tank with lid, and put a dual canopy light on it for this first one. The large palu im probably going to get made to order. There's place about an hour away that custom builds terrariums.


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## The Dude1 (Jul 5, 2012)

I have an Exo Terra waterfall in one of my tanks and it is perfect. It is self contained. It's very shallow, and it's constructed so that I can easily get to. The pump if I need to down the line. When the tank grows in a bit, it will be impossible to tell that it's just a purchased piece


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## Epikmuffin (May 9, 2012)

Hey there, welcome to dart frogs. I was in the fish hobby just like you. 



corbosman said:


> Hey all, im a beginner when it comes to vivariums and im planning to make my first tank soon. I have plenty of experience with aquariums, so im not totally new to the concepts. Im thinking of starting with a 18x18x24 exo-terra. I stopped with my aquarium hobby some years ago because I got too busy with running my own company. The drive to have something again has gotten so strong, i want to pick the hobby back up and switch to vivariums/paludariums. But I want everything to run as automated as possible in case i run into some busy spells again.
> 
> Some questions I have.
> 
> ...


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Please take my experience for what it is...very little. Like many on here, I started with aquariums and still have one of my saltwater aquariums setup. I just started my first viv earlier this year.
A few thoughts from my little experience...
-GS is easy to use. Many good threads on here to explain best way to apply it and warnings(for example, wear gloves!).

-Water features aren't desired by many on here. A lot of standing water is unneeded and dangerous for the frogs. It does add potential complications. Personally, I do have a water feature in mine and frogs seem to love it. From what I've read, I may have gotten very lucky and had a little better circumstances. My tank is a 150 gallon. I originally hoped to drill it and have it all drain down to a sump filtration(aquarium mindset), but I was unable to get it drilled. I managed to trade my sump system for multiple Magnum canisters. I use one of the canisters for my waterfall and it works great. My water feature is over the false bottom so any splashes/leaks drain straight into the bottom. I also do not have any standing water. I have it fall into river rocks where my intake line for my filter is at the bottom and unseen. I'd imagine this would be much more difficult in a small setup.

-For buying many of your supplies, I'd shop around some. There are many great vendors and sponsors listed on these forums that very well may sell much cheaper than your local store. I have some loyalty to my local store, so I bought there when price was comparable on a few things(very few). I ordered most of my stuff online from a few vendors and have been very happy and saved lots of money. Just remember to consider shipping price for overall costs.

-ABG is great.

-Personally, I have not tried MistKing yet, but it definitely seems to be the suggested way to go. I was trying to keep mine fairly low cost and did a DIY misting system. Did not work out as well as I had hoped and needs some revision. I will be buying a Mistking sometime in the future.

Hope this helps some and good luck! I love the hobby so far and seems to be a much more affordable hobby than saltwater tanks.

-Chris


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