# Hi Guys! Help me dream up a Vivarium!



## SquirtHerps (May 25, 2013)

Hello, 
I just wanted to introduce myself. I've been lurking around these forums for a while now and wanted to start planning my first Viv. I've been reef keeping for 7 years now, and I also work with fish professionally, so I'm selling off my personal fish tanks and making the switch to frogs. 
I'm moving end of january so I won't be starting construction until after I get settled in my new spot.

I plan on setting up a 120g (4'x2'x2') While I understand this is bigger than it needs to be, I like the idea of having 4x2' to hardscape with. I'm a big fan of Grimms "epic slice of the jungle" mostly for it's open look. I don't plan on foaming and planting the whole back wall, but rather doing plenty of driftwood (maybe a stump) for planting bromeliads and such. I also like the peninsula look, but that might take up too much space.

I was hoping to be able to simulate rain storms in the tank. I have read posts where people mention drip trays, or spraying mist across a screen to create random droplets of water but have not seen any videos or guides where people implement these. I have also seen the mistking lights that will flash lightning, but they don't seem like they would synch with a controller like the "Herp Keeper". I also know there are reefkeeping controllers that can flash LED's for lightning, but there are so many features on those that I wouldn't use.

If anyone could point me in the right direction for rain and lightning, that would be great.

I was planning on doing a small water feature on one side of the tank, a puddle basically. I wanted to have the water level fluctuate over the course of a few days and thought this could be achieved with a siphon that starts itself as a drain (google "pythagorean cup") Basically the water would rise for a few days filling up the false bottom and water feature as the tank was misted (or rained on if I can make it happen), and then drain when it got to max level. 

Has anyone tried this before?

And as far as frogs go I don't even have my heart set on Darts. I'm going to figure out the vivarium first and pick from appropriate species. Where can I find info on what darts are possible to mix without risk of breeding? All the "guides on mixing species" just say don't do it, but I hear talk that it's possible.

Anywho... Just wanted to say hi, and start to put this thing in gear. Thanks in advance for any insight, this forum has already provided a wealth of knowledge!


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

SquirtHerps said:


> Hello,
> I was planning on doing a small water feature on one side of the tank, a puddle basically. I wanted to have the water level fluctuate over the course of a few days and thought this could be achieved with a siphon that starts itself as a drain (google "pythagorean cup") Basically the water would rise for a few days filling up the false bottom and water feature as the tank was misted (or rained on if I can make it happen), and then drain when it got to max level.
> 
> Has anyone tried this before?


Many decades ago I worked at an aquaculture research facility. There was an experimental grow out tank for some shellfish (which I don't remember). The tank filled via a yard sprinkler head and it was fitted with a siphon like a pythagorean cup. When it filled to a certain level, the siphon would drain the tank all the way down and the process would start again. It was obviously a very dramatic change. If you are trying for a more subtle effect, it might take a lot of experimenting. 
But, who knows maybe you could get it to work.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

The pythagorean cup idea is interesting. I'd like to see how that plays out, but it might be a complicated build and you'd wanna make sure no tads/frogs could find a way into the inner workings.

Storm is doable... I'm working on my own system that I discuss some here...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...-activated-lightning-cloud-proof-concept.html
and here I think...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/95116-dryad-viv-concept-life-size-girl-box.html

The biggest obstacles seem to be syncing the lightning/water to the sounds, getting those things to activate at the same time either on a set schedule or a random one.

Finding a way to play the sound the moment power goes to the device instead of having to push play or something has been a bit of a challenge. 
I've been looking into a motion activated usb sound loop device. Actually I have it, I just haven't set it up yet. Also you can try controlling a phone from your pc if it is the right samsung model phone using teamviewer I think. I'm looking for more similar solutions.

Then you also have the challenge of syncing the mist/rain to the lights and sound. So far it seems easier to just set the system up on a motion control, remote controlled outlet, or some combination of those. So like you press the remote and power goes to the rain, lightning, and then the sound is on the motion control or you just push play on an mp3 player, your phone etc... and put it on the viv whenever you want the sound, but live with no sound, just the FX the rest of the time. 

You could do all of this and set up an all in one system much easier if you are well versed in arduino, but I'm not. 

Aquailluminations ai director controller and LED lights can simulate the visual fx, but not the sound, and since they simulate weather based on a probability I don't know how you'd sync sound to it to auto play every time a storm starts.
AquaIllumination’s AI Director web based LED controller is buttery smooth to navigate

Other options are the Marty light, and the current usa satellite plus lights... but again you have the issue of syncing the rain and sound to the light Fx. 

My system is going to be based off my quasi holographic plasma lightning which works as soon as power is supplied so if I put it and the rain system on a motion controlled or remote controlled outlet they'll be synced, but then I have to do something for the sound. So I'll probably use the phone controlled from pc or the motion activated usb device. So I'll get all the visual impact of the storm but not the sound unless I walk up to the viv, play the sound from the usb device or some other device manually or through the pc. 

I think I can live with this as I'm probably not going to want storm sounds going off all the time. 

The simplest way is probably the usb sound device detailed in one of my links, a satellite plus fixture and mist/rain system on a remote or motion control outlet. So you start the rain system with the remote, the lightning FX with the satellite plus remote, and then if you want manually start up a mp3, cd player, phone/tablet or pc with the sound loops or walking by the viv with the motion activated usb device. (I haven't loaded it with sounds yet so not sure how good the quality is)

If you find a device that can play sound instantly upon power up with no need to push play or something, and then will reset and play from beginning each time the power is turned off/on please let me know. This usb device is the closest I've found.

The idea system would be to have your lightning, sound, and rain all on the same timed or remote controlled outlet and all come on/off together, but I've yet to figure a simple way to do that. 

So basically without arduino it seems some compromises may have to be made if you want sound, water and lights. Water and lights aren't to hard to sync with timers or remote/motion outlets or some kinda reef controller. I'm thinking about trying to take apart the usb device and make it work from a wall outlet instead of batteries and bypassing the motion photo receptor to make it just come on when it has power, then put it on a timed or remote outlet...If I can figure out how to do all that. 

As for mixing species/morphs, we have good reasons for not recommending that. Can it be done? ...Ya, but you won't win many friends around here especially if you're new to frogs. The only people who get away with it without being lynched are people who have a ton of experience in their background and/or have proven themselves to us that they are really competent keepers, and even then many still frown upon it. *It is just to risky to do if you are inexperienced, and if an inexperienced person is willing to take those risks after all the more experienced people have explained why it is a bad idea it is hard for us to respect that kinda of animal husbandry practice.*


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

Ah it took me a bit to find the guy on planted tank but his paludarium's are simply amazing.

CLICKERFOU.FREE.FR

Well worth a look as he goes somewhat into construction details. Unfortunately there is not alot of detail as to how he managed the rain in his island setup.


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## SquirtHerps (May 25, 2013)

Kudaria said:


> Ah it took me a bit to find the guy on planted tank but his paludarium's are simply amazing.
> 
> CLICKERFOU.FREE.FR
> 
> Well worth a look as he goes somewhat into construction details. Unfortunately there is not alot of detail as to how he managed the rain in his island setup.


Yes this build is what made me want to do rain! 

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## SquirtHerps (May 25, 2013)

The plan I have in my head for the pythagorean cup is pretty simple, its just modifying the drain a bit that most people plumb in under their false bottom. I just hope no one steals my idea before I get it built!


Also I really dont want storm sounds... just flashing lightning, rain, fog, and wind. If I can build a true rain system, it should be easy enough to sync with exhaust fans and a fogger. 

The part I cant seem to find is the lighning that would sync up and be automated/random.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 4


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SquirtHerps said:


> The plan I have in my head for the pythagorean cup is pretty simple, its just modifying the drain a bit that most people plumb in under their false bottom. I just hope no one steals my idea before I get it built!
> 
> 
> Also I really dont want storm sounds... just flashing lightning, rain, fog, and wind. If I can build a true rain system, it should be easy enough to sync with exhaust fans and a fogger.
> ...



Well if you don't want sound it gets a bit easier... Fog/wind can be put on the same timer/outlet as the mist/rain system.

Options...
*1. Just buy a satellite + fixture (or something similar)* 

...And put the mist/rain system on a remote controlled outlet, then use the control for the outlet to start the rain, and the control for the light to switch to storm mode. Won't be synced/timed/random storms, but will be storm on demand. (A easy and affordable compromise basically)

*2. Buy a reef light and lighting controller setup... like aquailluminations Ai director and led lights, or some other brands/makers stuff.* 

(You probably wanna find light that allows you to tune the color spectrum to 8000k or below. Higher then that and the lighting looks pretty crappy on a viv IMO)
Hydra » AquaIllumination®
Control » AquaIllumination®

*3. buy a short string of christmas lights with some kinda included controller and plug that into the same timer setup as everything else. *

Chances are you can make it look like lightning and it has the benefit of coming on and going off same time as everything else without having to fiddle with it each time probably. Might have to modify/shorten the strand, take out some of the lights and plug the sockets with silicone or something. Look for types with multi mode controllers though, like 8 in1 or something like that.
String Lights, 64 Wide Angle LEDs, Battery, Multi Function, Timer






*4. Multi-mode Led strips and controllers- * (becareful that you have, or buy a kit that comes with the ac adapter. Many kits do not include it, but you should be able to get a 5m kit with 133 mode controller and adapter for under $70 if you shop around ebay/amazon)








http://www.ebay.com/itm/6803-IC-505...276?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53fe833924

These kits will play whatever mode they were on when turned off last, so you can put them on an interval timer and find mode that will work for lightning, or cloud simulation or other FX if you think creatively about it. Can be cut down to size, and left over strip pieces used with seperately bought controllers. You must use dreamcolor lighting strips with the 133 mode controller, other lighting strips probably don't work (I learned the hard way)
Demo...






*
5. EL wire plug in controllers/sequencers hooked to your rain/mist/fog/wind timer....*

These aren't super bright and can be cut down so you don't have a bunch extra el wire to deal with. You just need diver/sequencer that plugs into wall timer and has a blink mode or multi channel sequencing. Unfortunately many of these are battery powered, but there are 110v plug in versions. The challenge is finding them and some of the more powerful 110v versions require a minimum amount of wire to operate safely. You may be able to use an ac adapter that plugs into a sequencer also instead of just buying a driver with the sequencing/blink function built in. Usually you can order custom color combinations or make them yourself. 

3X5M El Wire Neon White Glow Light 110V 220V Inverter | eBay
EL Wire 110v 4 meter kit (2 colors)
Here is one in operation...






(you can try setting up the led or EL wire lights on an interval timer, even seconds timer like the mistking seconds timer to help fine tune how they operate ) (Plug a multi outlet into the timer to run everything off same timer. That goes for most/all these options)
MistKing Misting Systems by Jungle Hobbies Ltd

*6. Arduino based systems- (Probably the best if you got the skills, but you're on your own here people... for now at least)*

*Basically to do this cheap you have to be creative and/or technically inclined... OR willing to compromise a bit and go for a system that you manually turn on some or all of the components using timers and/or a remote controlled or motion activated plug.*

1. Remote plug/outlet-









Master Electrician RC-012-1-TR-009 Heavy Duty Wireless Remote Control Outlets Power Hub Converter Kit - Amazon.com


2. Motion activated plug/outlet-








SensorPlug - Motion Activated Electrical Outlet - Amazon.com

Oh one other potential option for plugging lights into something to make them flash on/off is a wave controller (possibly on an interval timer to further tune the visual fx) 









JBJ Ocean Pulse Wavemaker

---------------
Ok here are some options for people that do want sound I found awhile back that might help you out...

First the really cheap version (but sound quality/style might not be great)
Cannon Strobe with Thunder*|*Meijer.com
or
Cannon Thunder Strobe

(The strobe does play the rain sounds)




Plug that in on the same timer as your rain system and everything should be synced. I'll probably get one myself 

Here is a battery operated smaller version but has some crazy sounds that may screw up it's use for this purpose...





*More expensive options...*

Picostorm controller, plug n play with sound build in it looks like. (this looks like one of the easiest options options of the 3 controllers I list here, just throw some smaller mini strobes on it and plug in some pc speakers, then plug the whole thing into the same timer your rain is on. The soundtrack for this seems nice and approriate for our use)
PicoSTORM: Lighting: Thunder & Lightning Controllers: PicoStorm Lightning Controller - FrightProps.com





Mini strobe- Just one example, lots of these both LED or xenon available cheap... just google them.
Mini Strobe (LED): Lighting: Strobe Lights - FrightProps.com

2 more lightning controllers with sound options, but require an external cd player I think(you'll need to research this stuff and how it works if you're interested, and can google the names of these controllers to find better prices/buying options)

FireFly Halloween Lightning Controllers and Special Effects Lighting by Lights Alive










i-Zombie.com • Lightning Controllers









*Lights that currently offer built in storm/weather modes (without need of seperate controller, or come with needed hardware)...*

1. Satellite Freshwater LED+ | Current-USA

2 MistKing Misting Systems by Jungle Hobbies Ltd


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SquirtHerps said:


> The plan I have in my head for the pythagorean cup is pretty simple, its just modifying the drain a bit that most people plumb in under their false bottom. I just hope no one steals my idea before I get it built!
> 
> 
> Also I really dont want storm sounds... just flashing lightning, rain, fog, and wind. If I can build a true rain system, it should be easy enough to sync with exhaust fans and a fogger.
> ...



Well if you don't want sound it gets a bit easier... Fog/wind can be put on the same timer/outlet as the mist/rain system.

Options...
*1. Just buy a satellite + fixture (or something similar)* 

...And put the mist/rain system on a remote controlled outlet, then use the control for the outlet to start the rain, and the control for the light to switch to storm mode. Won't be synced/timed/random storms, but will be storm on demand. (A easy and affordable compromise basically)

*1.5 Buy a reef light and lighting controller setup... like aquailluminations Ai director and led lights, or some other brands/makers stuff.* 

(You probably wanna find light that allows you to tune the color spectrum to 8000k or below. Higher then that and the lighting looks pretty crappy on a viv IMO)
Hydra » AquaIllumination®
Control » AquaIllumination®

*2. buy a short string of christmas lights with some kinda included controller and plug that into the same timer setup as everything else. *

Chances are you can make it look like lightning and it has the benefit of coming on and going off same time as everything else without having to fiddle with it each time probably. Might have to modify/shorten the strand, take out some of the lights and plug the sockets with silicone or something. Look for types with multi mode controllers though, like 8 in1 or something like that.
String Lights, 64 Wide Angle LEDs, Battery, Multi Function, Timer





*
3. EL wire plug in controllers/sequencers hooked to your rain/mist/fog/wind timer....*

These aren't super bright and can be cut down so you don't have a bunch extra el wire to deal with. You just need diver/sequencer that plugs into wall timer and has a blink mode or multi channel sequencing. Unfortunately many of these are battery powered, but there are 110v plug in versions. The challenge is finding them and some of the more powerful 110v versions require a minimum amount of wire to operate safely. You may be able to use an ac adapter that plugs into a sequencer also instead of just buying a driver with the sequencing/blink function built in. Usually you can order custom color combinations or make them yourself. 

3X5M El Wire Neon White Glow Light 110V 220V Inverter | eBay
EL Wire 110v 4 meter kit (2 colors)
Here is one in operation...






(you can try setting up the led or EL wire lights on an interval timer, even seconds timer like the mistking seconds timer to help fine tune how they operate ) (Plug a multi outlet into the timer to run everything off same timer. That goes for most/all these options)
MistKing Misting Systems by Jungle Hobbies Ltd


*Basically to do this cheap you have to be creative and/or technically inclined... OR willing to compromise a bit and go for a system that you manually turn on some or all of the components using timers and/or a remote controlled or motion activated plug.*

1. Remote plug/outlet-









Master Electrician RC-012-1-TR-009 Heavy Duty Wireless Remote Control Outlets Power Hub Converter Kit - Amazon.com


2. Motion activated plug/outlet-








SensorPlug - Motion Activated Electrical Outlet - Amazon.com

Oh one other potential option for plugging lights into something to make them flash on/off is a wave controller (possibly on an interval timer to further tune the visual fx) 









JBJ Ocean Pulse Wavemaker

---------------
Ok here are some options for people that do want sound I found awhile back that might help you out...

First the really cheap version (but sound quality/style might not be great)
Cannon Strobe with Thunder*|*Meijer.com
or
Cannon Thunder Strobe

(The strobe does play the rain sounds)




Plug that in on the same timer as your rain system and everything should be synced. I'll probably get one myself 

Here is a battery operated smaller version but has some crazy sounds that may screw up it's use for this purpose...





*More expensive options...*

Picostorm controller, plug n play with sound build in it looks like. (this looks like one of the easiest options options of the 3 controllers I list here, just throw some smaller mini strobes on it and plug in some pc speakers, then plug the whole thing into the same timer your rain is on. The soundtrack for this seems nice and approriate for our use)
PicoSTORM: Lighting: Thunder & Lightning Controllers: PicoStorm Lightning Controller - FrightProps.com





Mini strobe- Just one example, lots of these both LED or xenon available cheap... just google them.
Mini Strobe (LED): Lighting: Strobe Lights - FrightProps.com

2 more lightning controllers with sound options, but require an external cd player I think(you'll need to research this stuff and how it works if you're interested, and can google the names of these controllers to find better prices/buying options)

FireFly Halloween Lightning Controllers and Special Effects Lighting by Lights Alive










i-Zombie.com • Lightning Controllers









*Lights that currently offer built in storm/weather modes (without need of seperate controller, or come with needed hardware)...*

1. Satellite Freshwater LED+ | Current-USA

















2 MistKing Misting Systems by Jungle Hobbies Ltd










*These lights can be used with the other solutions above to create a multi layered FX setup. Timed/manually activated/random events etc...etc... You've just gotta be creative and decide how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go *


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