# to cull or not to cull



## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have an orange sirensis that emerged from the viv with the parents. I pull all tads and grow them out myself. This froglet found in the viv was and still is about half the size of other Sirensis froglets most likely of the clutch. The Froglet eats as well as the others, and has quite nice colors. Nothing seems to be wrong with him except that his stature is half of his relatives. I have culled defective froglets before, I just don't know if this is considered to be a defect. 

Is it because the tads I raise get ample food(unnatural large size) and the parents feed less(natural size). Or would more detritus find its way into the water in nature leading to larger froglets in nature and that is what gives the ones I raise a more natural level of food supply. 

I have heard that frog raised imitators morph larger and nicer than their human raised counterparts, then they could also be better parents. I dont really want to sell it, I dont want to breed it and I really dont have the desire to keep a lone frog. 

What would you do? All constructive in put is appreciated. 

Thanks, Brad


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

I have left tads in my orange sirenes tank to pull them right before they morph out and they are about half the size of the tads I pull and raise. Given enough time and food it will bulk up and get about the same size as its pulled siblings.


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

I have had tads morph in-tank that are smaller than pulled tads as well, but they always catch up in size over time. If yours are remaining small and not achieving full size, maybe it has something to do with your supplements. Either way I personally would not cull any froglets, but I would keep them separate from larger froglets!


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

I think your taking quite leap in thinking that you can pin down the clutchmates of this particular frog or even how long it's been out of the water. At least with the evidence you put into your post.

They likely slipped an entire clutch by one by you at some point and a variety of factors could cause the froglet to morph out much slower/faster than ones you pull. Also, the amount of food in the viv for the froglet may retard growth - though I doubt that's it.

I'd just pull the froglet and raise it up like you'd do all the other ones. Give it 6 months and see what it does.


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info, you may have saved the little guys life. Does this only happen with your Sirensis or does it apply to other species as well.


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

brad0608 said:


> Thanks for the info, you may have saved the little guys life. Does this only happen with your Sirensis or does it apply to other species as well.


It's happened with just about every thumbnail I have - though vanzolinii and flavovittata are the ones most likely to slip stuff past the goalie.


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Chris Miller said:


> It's happened with just about every thumbnail I have - though vanzolinii and flavovittata are the ones most likely to slip stuff past the goalie.


Oh yeah! I have no idea where my vanzo pair lay their clutches anymore, but I always end up finding a random tad carry or newly morphed froglet.


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

Any advice on canister color, placement, or angle for optimize the vanzos laying or depositing in the canisters?


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

The only time I have ever found eggs in a film can is black ones laid slightly on an angle among the leaf litter.


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

I prefer to let them lay in the viv and transport to water holding canisters.

If you really want to pull eggs - I've found the most reliable way to get them to lay in a regular spot is to lay a piece of flat-ish cork against the glass in the back of the tank. They seem to prefer this to canisters.

My 'secret' for canisters is to orient them horizontally and place them with the opening facing the back of the viv, as close to the back of the viv as possible.


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

normally I dont pull eggs. I was more wondering about where they prefer to deposit tads if they do have a preference. Do they deposit in leaf litter also or do they normally move them toward the upper areas of the viv.


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

I use black ones with a suction cup on the glass filled with water. They will also use black ones standing upright on the floor of the viv. I imagine they'd use white ones too, but I don't have any to try out.


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Chris Miller said:


> I use black ones with a suction cup on the glass filled with water. They will also use black ones standing upright on the floor of the viv. I imagine they'd use white ones too, but I don't have any to try out.


I have found many tads in white cans.


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