# Fainting Frogs



## MrGerbik (Dec 18, 2006)

Dont know if anyone experiancd this, but twice with 2 different frogs (siblings) when i picked them up from their tanks to move them to a new one they would go rigid and kind of faint with their mouths are open. Maybe 20 seconds later in the new tank they are fine, but its really disturbing


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## rjmarchisi (Feb 16, 2004)

Were these pumilios? If so they were having seizures which usually is caused by a lack of calcium.

rob


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## MrGerbik (Dec 18, 2006)

They are pumilio. Weird cause i dust and none of my other pums do it


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If the frogs then recover after a little while, it does sound like a insufficient calcium issue. 

Just to be clear, all frogs are susceptiable to it, not just pumilio. 

If the frogs are not feeding when the dusted insects are added to the enclosure, then the insects may be dusting off sufficient supplement that the frogs are not getting sufficient D3 and/or calcium or there may be an issue with the levels of D3 in the supplement (for example if it is complete premixed supplement then the D3 may have degraded. 

All because you haven't seen it in the other frogs doesn't mean that they don not have a calcium insufficiency, just those frogs are showing symptoms when stressed. 

Ed


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## MrGerbik (Dec 18, 2006)

Well i see them eat almost immediatly. Especially one in question. Might be one of the boldest frogs i have ever had and he goes right in there. MY supplements are not old either. They get dusted every other feeding. I guess ill just dust every time now


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The supplement doesn't have to be old.. for example if it is kept in a warm humid room or if it sat in a hot truck or on a shelf for a long time before you got it all can contribute to issues with D3. Being old in your possession is one problem.. another is how it was handled before you got it or how long it sat somewhere before you got it iis another problem. 
Due to this and some other issues, it might be a best practice to rotate several different supplements with the frogs. 

Ed


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## SamsonsFrogs (Mar 4, 2009)

I can agree with Ed on that one. I have a 55g reef tank and when i buy chems for it i always check a few things. I'll check the bottle to see if its clean or dusty, I will check the price tag to see if it looks old. And finally in my opinon most people like to spend a little than alot so the big supplies of chems i dont get just because they probably have been sitting ther for a long time. I would go buy new Vits and Mins. Just to be safe. I hope you get it under control.


Sam


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

adding a UVB bulb (correct me if this is the wrong light) may also help

this is providing the top of your enclosure will allow the UVB though, i believe glass and plexi glass filter it out.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

UVB rays can help if you have a full UVB spectrum. I do have a problem with mine, though. I have glass on a massive portion of my top to keep humidity high. Glass (and if I'm not mistaken, plexiglass) can reflect some (a lot?) of the UV spectrum that gets into the tank.... That's why I use supplements with D3. I can't guarantee that the UVB bulbs I'm using are allowing my frogs to generate enough D3 to absorb the calcium supplements.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Its not that the UVB gets reflected it gets absorbed by the materials as the light passes through. In addition, most UVB producing bulbs (and it has to produce wavelight in the UVB portion of the spectrum. Many of the bulbs labeled full spectrum only produce light into the UVA portion). In addition, most of the UVB bulbs need to be within 18 inches of the frogs and most of the typical ones have to be replaced at least every six months or so even if they look like they are still bright due to degredation of the phosphors in the bulbs (one of the halogens and halides appear to be exceptions as they do not use phosphors but I should probably refresh my self on them before saying anything else). 

I forgot to mention above that if these are cb pumilio froglets then this appears to be somekind of syndrome that has been mentioned affecting them in the hobby for quite sometime now. In addition, I forgot to ask if these are froglets how recently were they moved up to food items that can be dusted? 

Ed


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Ed said:


> I forgot to mention above that if these are cb pumilio froglets then this appears to be somekind of syndrome that has been mentioned affecting them in the hobby for quite sometime now. In addition, I forgot to ask if these are froglets how recently were they moved up to food items that can be dusted?
> 
> Ed


It's a syndrome that completely dissapeared from my collection after adding UVB lighting. It use to affect about 30-50% of the froglets I produced about 7 years ago. Several dozen froglets later and I've never seen a single case after adding Solacryl tops and Reptisun bulbs.


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## MrGerbik (Dec 18, 2006)

Yes they are cb pum froglets. I have Cool white and Sung Glo (full spectrum) lights on there. The lights are supposed to mimc natural sunlight so i dont know. I had started with reptisuns but they did not work for some reason so i switched to these


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If they don't specify production in the UVB portion of the spectrum them they don't. Again, if the light is passing through regular aquarium glass or plexi then there is going to be little to no UVB transmission. Even screening can reduce the amount of UVB. 

Ed


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

"Full Spectrum" is just a marketing term and doesnt really mean much. Reptisun bulbs consistently perform well under UVB testing so I use them as much as possible. But I've also had good luck with Desert Sun 7 compact fluorescent bulbs. Like Ed said, you either need to mount these bare bulb inside the vivarium, or use a UV transparent glazing like Solacryl acrilic or starfire glass. Both of these are a little pricey but so are the bulbs. You can also use screen but it blocks about 50% of the light from the bulbs and will consequently reduce the distance from the bulbs the UVB dose will be effective. This distance is another important consideration. Most UVB bulbs will produce a therapeutic dose up to about 12" from the bulb. Reptisun 10 will go something like 18-20" so I only use those on really tall vivs. Lastly, don't get confused by Reptsun 2.0 bulbs. Those only produce UVA and not UVB. While they may have benefits, they aren't going to help with calcium issues.


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