# Dried spanish moss ok to use from craft store?



## pastina

I tore down my 220 gallon reef tank and im in the process of making into a planted terrarium with fire bellied toads
Today I bought a few bags of dried spanish moss from a craft store, it says use with house plants, crafts etc
I plan on hanging it on the back of the aquarium wall, but now im wondering if its safe for the frogs? 
Should i just rinse it and it will be ok to use?


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## earthfrog

I don't know if there would be any regulations that stipulate whether they have to list on the package if anything has been added to the moss. Your best bet would be to call the manufacturer listed on the package to verify that it is just moss and nothing but moss. 
Most of the time if it says 100% moss it will be safe, but this doesn't always guarantee they haven't added some kind of fragrance or preservative.


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## Ed

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/35889-spanish-moss-question.html#post319622

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/12327-does-spanish-moss-work-vivs-2.html

Ed


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## earthfrog

pastina said:


> I tore down my 220 gallon reef tank and im in the process of making into a planted terrarium with fire bellied toads
> Today I bought a few bags of dried spanish moss from a craft store, it says use with house plants, crafts etc
> I plan on hanging it on the back of the aquarium wall, but now im wondering if its safe for the frogs?
> Should i just rinse it and it will be ok to use?


So, after reading those links Ed provided, probably it's a bad idea to put it in with your dart frogs since it has some pretty heavy pesticides put on it as well as sharp parts that will cut your frog's digestive system.


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## pastina

yeah i guess its a bad idea. im shocked about the sharp parts, i touched an area of it and i cant tell its sharp, feels softish kinda
The bag just says "Spanish Moss product of Mexico" Not for Animal or Human consumption
no phone number given
packaged in Ohio

The pesticides is scary. So even soaking and rinsing for a few days isnt good? does this stuff fall apart easily?
I was planning on putting it way up high on the walls, not on the terrarium floor
and I was going to leave the tank frogless for a few months until the plants got settled in and i can get to know the temp and humidity fluctuations just in case i need to make adjustments 
So lets say i rinse it thoroughly, keep it in the tank a few months while being misted along with the rest of the tank, then test it out on a cricket. if a cricket climbs on it and nibbles it and doesnt die is that safe to say its safe?


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## topherlove

The choice is ultimately yours. I would not use anything i was weary of injuring or being fatal to my frogs. There are so many other choice to use instead of spanish moss. Look into an alternative.


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## pastina

topherlove said:


> The choice is ultimately yours. I would not use anything i was weary of injuring or being fatal to my frogs. There are so many other choice to use instead of spanish moss. Look into an alternative.


I dont know an alternative 
can you tell me?
something that i can hang on the back wall that looks like vines or moss


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## Philsuma

pastina said:


> I dont know an alternative
> can you tell me?
> something that i can hang on the back wall that looks like vines or moss


Go with a natural background of soil / clay mix. VERY easy to do with a tank around 10-40 gallons.

then...

you can plant REAL plants on and_ into_ the background and it will look natural and real and not like spanish moss from southern Florida or a LA plantation.

Creeping fig. A easy to find and VERY hardy and quick growing terrarium plant.


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## pastina

does the soil clay mix go on the back wall permanently? its a 220 gallon tank, 6 feet long and 31" deep
i dont want to alter the tank because it will probably go back to being a fish tank someday
is their a way to get little potted plant hangers in their somehow?


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## Philsuma

pastina said:


> does the soil clay mix go on the back wall permanently? its a 220 gallon tank, 6 feet long and 31" deep
> i dont want to alter the tank because it will probably go back to being a fish tank someday
> is their a way to get little potted plant hangers in their somehow?


Sorry...can't give you advice on a big tank. My biggest backgrounds are @ 40 gallon-ish.

That's gonna be a BIG project......you should consider a 10 or 20 gallon build first....to get your feet wet, so to speak.


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## pastina

yeah i think im in over my head lol
should i wait a little longer on the frogs? and just keep it as a terrarium for awhile to see how it goes?

I'm going to put river rocks on the bottom, followed by pea gravel and then a screen to separate the soil from the rocks. for the soil i bought compost top soil and im going to mix in peat that came in this big block
and i bought a large lizard lagoon dish for the frogs to soak in so it will be easy to take out and clean daily...oh and RO water for the frogs and misting bottle, is RO ok to use?


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## frogface

You can pull a clay background right out of the tank and wash it out. Very easy compared to some of the other background methods.


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## pastina

frogface said:


> You can pull a clay background right out of the tank and wash it out. Very easy compared to some of the other background methods.


But i cant make it and i have no desire to do so lol
im getting old and feeble which is why i tore down my reef tank 
a plain black background is ok by me
im gonna soak the moss in buckets of water, then rinse several times, anything thats on their has to be rinsed off
and like i said, i'll be getting fire bellied toads, not darts, and they should spend most of their time on the ground, the moss will be very high up on the walls. the tank is 31" deep, so theirs a good chance the frogs will never reach them


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## Ed

pastina said:


> But i cant make it and i have no desire to do so lol
> im getting old and feeble which is why i tore down my reef tank
> a plain black background is ok by me
> im gonna soak the moss in buckets of water, then rinse several times, anything thats on their has to be rinsed off
> and like i said, i'll be getting fire bellied toads, not darts, and they should spend most of their time on the ground, the moss will be very high up on the walls. the tank is 31" deep, so theirs a good chance the frogs will never reach them


 
In the documeted incidents in the literature, the moss had fallen to the bottom of the tank where it was tangled around and cut the frog or ingested lacerating the internal organs. 

Ed


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## Jarhead_2016

clay is very easy to do a back ground out of and to take it out all you have to do is add water as long as the clay stays moist you dont have any problems i mist two-three times a week and have no problems
-scotty


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## pastina

Ed said:


> In the documeted incidents in the literature, the moss had fallen to the bottom of the tank where it was tangled around and cut the frog or ingested lacerating the internal organs.
> 
> Ed


Ok, im going to take back the moss to Michaels, i wont use it
its not worth risking it
im still torn on what frogs though lol
now im leaning towards a pair of whites tree frogs
i guess i have time to decide on a froggy, the tank is still soaking trying to get all the salt out
dark frogs are adorable, but i think i would lose them in this tank lol


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## Bcs TX

> for the soil i bought *compost top soil *and im going to mix in peat that came in this big block


I would do some research on substrates if I were you, the compost soil is not a good idea.


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## pastina

Bcs TX said:


> I would do some research on substrates if I were you, the compost soil is not a good idea.


you didnt say why?
its basically top soil from home depot
and the peat gets mixed in , also from home depot
i did research and this is what i came up with, the only thing i didnt add was sand to the mix. 
im using this regardless because i already bought 200 lbs of it
the top layer will be leaf litter and i found live terrarium moss on ebay to cover the substrate as well


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## frogface

The compost I've looked at from Lowe's has cow manure in it. The 'organic' soil I ended up getting for my isopod cultures has a very strong smell of creosote (thus I won't be using it).

All due respect Pastina, it doesn't sound like you have the frog's best interest at heart. You were warned away from the craft store Spanish Moss but decided to use it anyway, until you learned of potential organ laceration. Now you are warned off of the compost but you have decided to use it anyway.

Please research appropriate substrates before you get frogs. You may find that your soil is fine but you should know for certain before you introduce your frogs to it.


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## earthfrog

pastina said:


> The pesticides is scary. So even soaking and rinsing for a few days isnt good? does this stuff fall apart easily?
> I was planning on putting it way up high on the walls, not on the terrarium floor
> and I was going to leave the tank frogless for a few months until the plants got settled in and i can get to know the temp and humidity fluctuations just in case i need to make adjustments
> So lets say i rinse it thoroughly, keep it in the tank a few months while being misted along with the rest of the tank, then test it out on a cricket. if a cricket climbs on it and nibbles it and doesnt die is that safe to say its safe?


No, it's not safe just b/c the bug doesn't die. If it is a heavy pesticide that lingers in the viv and can't be washed off easily, it is dangerous, esp. since we don't know what type of pesticide it is. Heavy ones may indicate ones based on sulphur or lead which persist for a long, long time. 

I don't think it's a good idea to test it out to see what happens---that would be like giving a toddler a pair of sharp scissors to see if he will hurt himself while using them, or if he will be OK. Not worth the risk to your frogs. Don't use the spanish moss. Use live moss instead---it will look nice and help keep your tank fresh and clean.


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## earthfrog

pastina said:


> you didnt say why?
> its basically top soil from home depot
> and the peat gets mixed in , also from home depot
> i did research and this is what i came up with, the only thing i didnt add was sand to the mix.
> im using this regardless because i already bought 200 lbs of it
> the top layer will be leaf litter and i found live terrarium moss on ebay to cover the substrate as well


I am thinking the microbials in the topsoil is part of the issue---you have a sure shot of bad bacteria getting into the mix. 
I believe this thread will tell you the best substrate mix to use. I found it using the Search function button on the bar above the forum display. It helps you access info from past threads so you don't have to ask it over again and wait for answers:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/51548-whats-best-substrate-mix-beginner.html


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## pastina

Guess no one reads, if you go back you will see i decided to bring the moss back to the store
I guess when i had my tiger salamander for 8 years living in top soil purchased from lowes their must have been something really wrong with it right? 
I never once saw any bug come out of that soil, and i would replace his soil every year with new top soil, bought at different locations, cheap 2 dollar small bags
So i think you people are extremists and control freaks, i am all to familiar with boards like this...been their done that, not about to get into that again

So Later, im setting up my terrarium, which first thought in mind was just for tropical plants, i most likely will NOT even get the frogs because it will just be one more mouth to feed and i cant stand crickets, so now i can safely add the bark mulch to the soil for the broms...hope you even read this far and understand the part about NOT getting ANY frogs
I'm going to put a nice big juicy dinosaur in their instead 
oh but wait, im sure the soil isnt good for him either...darn


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## earthfrog

pastina said:


> Guess no one reads, if you go back you will see i decided to bring the moss back to the store
> I guess when i had my tiger salamander for 8 years living in top soil purchased from lowes their must have been something really wrong with it right?
> I never once saw any bug come out of that soil, and i would replace his soil every year with new top soil, bought at different locations, cheap 2 dollar small bags
> So i think you people are extremists and control freaks, i am all to familiar with boards like this...been their done that, not about to get into that again
> 
> So Later, im setting up my terrarium, which first thought in mind was just for tropical plants, i most likely will NOT even get the frogs because it will just be one more mouth to feed and i cant stand crickets, so now i can safely add the bark mulch to the soil for the broms...hope you even read this far and understand the part about NOT getting ANY frogs
> I'm going to put a nice big juicy dinosaur in their instead
> oh but wait, im sure the soil isnt good for him either...darn


So you did regular fecal tests on your salamander when using that soil and he tested negative for harmful bacteria or parasites (not referring to bug pests)? Just wondering, not trying to criticize you. The tiger salamander may have other natural toxins that protect him from harm, I don't know though. 

Dart frogs are a bit more sensitive and susceptible to infection. It's not about being control freaks but about advising you so you don't kill the frogs in short order. It's not about being extreme either--- there are just a lot of stories about people sick frogs from practices that the frogs can't handle. Hope this helps.


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## pastina

earthfrog said:


> So you did regular fecal tests on your salamander when using that soil and he tested negative for harmful bacteria or parasites (not referring to bug pests)? Just wondering, not trying to criticize you. The tiger salamander may have other natural toxins that protect him from harm, I don't know though.
> 
> Dart frogs are a bit more sensitive and susceptible to infection. It's not about being control freaks but about advising you so you don't kill the frogs in short order. It's not about being extreme either--- there are just a lot of stories about people sick frogs from practices that the frogs can't handle. Hope this helps.


why on earth would i do a fecal test on a salamander? lol especially since he showed no signs of illness or discomfort, i would imagine after 8 years he would have gotten ill. he died not due to illness but due to the fact that i had to go in the hospital and left my mom to take care of him. she "forgot" to mist his tank often enough and when i came home he and his soil were all dried out, he was dead, from dehydration, not illness. if it wasnt for that i bet he would have lived another 8 years or more. it truly was a sad day.

but dart frogs arent the type of frogs i was planning on getting, if anyone read my original posts they would know this. i have no desire to get a dart frog, their too tiny and frail looking. I was just googling for an amphibian forum and this was the first one that showed up, i didnt realize it was strictly a dart frog forum until later on

the terrarium is still a work in progress and any plans can be changed because so far i only got up to the gravel bottom
but rest assured if any frog goes in their it wont be a dart...the frogs i had in mind were either the fire bellied toads OR a pair of whites tree frogs..im sure either one is hardier than a dart


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## earthfrog

pastina said:


> why on earth would i do a fecal test on a salamander? lol especially since he showed no signs of illness or discomfort, i would imagine after 8 years he would have gotten ill. he died not due to illness but due to the fact that i had to go in the hospital and left my mom to take care of him. she "forgot" to mist his tank often enough and when i came home he and his soil were all dried out, he was dead, from dehydration, not illness. if it wasnt for that i bet he would have lived another 8 years or more. it truly was a sad day.
> 
> but dart frogs arent the type of frogs i was planning on getting, if anyone read my original posts they would know this. i have no desire to get a dart frog, their too tiny and frail looking. I was just googling for an amphibian forum and this was the first one that showed up, i didnt realize it was strictly a dart frog forum until later on
> 
> the terrarium is still a work in progress and any plans can be changed because so far i only got up to the gravel bottom
> but rest assured if any frog goes in their it wont be a dart...the frogs i had in mind were either the fire bellied toads OR a pair of whites tree frogs..im sure either one is hardier than a dart


Thanks OK. I hope it works out for you---sorry to hear about the loss of your salamander. The only reason I asked about fecals is to see if you'd verified there were not any parasites to worry about in the soil. It's probably less of a concern with species that aren't as fragile or endangered in captivity.


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## pastina

thanks 
I finished the tank today. Still no inhabitants, that wont come for awhile as im still deciding what to do
As you can see the top soil is the last layer, followed by the peat moss and then coco fiber 
The soil is only lightly mixed together...i didnt get far with a spoon lol
As you can see the soil is very deep so i lost some height in the tank. it went from 31" deep to about 25" deep, but i guess its better for the plants to root in.
The moss hanging on the tree is frog spagnum moss bought from petsmart, not that craft spanish moss stuff which i got a refund on


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## earthfrog

pastina said:


> thanks
> I finished the tank today. Still no inhabitants, that wont come for awhile as im still deciding what to do
> As you can see the top soil is the last layer, followed by the peat moss and then coco fiber
> The soil is only lightly mixed together...i didnt get far with a spoon lol
> As you can see the soil is very deep so i lost some height in the tank. it went from 31" deep to about 25" deep, but i guess its better for the plants to root in.
> The moss hanging on the tree is frog spagnum moss bought from petsmart, not that craft spanish moss stuff which i got a refund on


It looks very nice! You might like to try lichen as a sub for the sphagnum moss. Old Man's Beard is a good one that hangs from branches. Lichen does have to be able to dry out from time to time or it will die. 

I have some British Soldier lichen and it looks very neat in my tank---I don't know how long it will last but I hope it stays for awhile.


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## pastina

Thanks 
I will try and find that moss, ive never heard of that kind before. I wonder if ebay has it


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## earthfrog

Yeah I would bet so. Some of the vendors on here might have it too. I got my British Soldier lichen from Ebay and the Old Man's Beard from one of the vendors I think (I can't really remember though).


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## Terra World

Hi, I thought I'd let you know that our new brand (Terra World Herpetological Products) supplies the trade with a variety dried natural products, many which are perfect for the Dartfrog Terrarium. 

Amongst the range, we have a variety of dried mosses and lichens, suitable for dartfrog terrariums. Although not a moss, we have put the spanish moss in this category of products. 

If you would like us to email a copy of our catalogue to you, email us at [email protected]. Also search for Terra World Herpetological Products in facebook, where we have listed all our products.

Please don't hesitate to contact us for more infomation.

PS Earthfrog, your terrarium looks stunning!


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## earthfrog

Terra World said:


> Hi, I thought I'd let you know that our new brand (Terra World Herpetological Products) supplies the trade with a variety dried natural products, many which are perfect for the Dartfrog Terrarium.
> 
> Amongst the range, we have a variety of dried mosses and lichens, suitable for dartfrog terrariums. Although not a moss, we have put the spanish moss in this category of products.
> 
> If you would like us to email a copy of our catalogue to you, email us at [email protected]. Also search for Terra World Herpetological Products in facebook, where we have listed all our products.
> 
> Please don't hesitate to contact us for more infomation.
> 
> PS Earthfrog, your terrarium looks stunning!


Thanks, but that is Patina's terrarium. I'm still working on getting a pic of mine up. Please read the previous posts of this thread about the questionable safety of using Spanish Moss in dart frog enclosures.


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## xxohmycaptainxx

Its better to just grow on some spagnum moss or jave moss. Both do good in high humidity tanks.


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