# praying mantis and black ants?



## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

Hey everyone! Well Ill tell you what its GREAT to be hear and learn so much. I think ive read almost half the threads in all the forums in here (since many of them are same thing). Anyway, Im new to this but i think I am ready. Viv is setup with java moss growing and it has covered almost 70% of my 10gal tank. Humidity is at about 83% and my temp is around 78. I have one question, maybe two. First I was wondering, if the temp in my viv goes up to around 84 ish for a couple of hours a day will that be ok for a semi adult cobalt tinc? My second questing is, can my future tink eat newly hatched praying mantis and small (tiny) black ants?.
I hope I dont get bagered for my questions. I have kept herps before. I currently have 2 snakes, and a reef tank which is doing AWSOME! Sorry if these questions have been answered, i just could not find it anywhere. Thank you everyone.


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## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

Read this... 

Though we tend to think of hummingbirds as cute, dainty little things, in reality they make bold and fierce competitors. They don't let their guard down for a moment while defending their territories from other hummingbirds. They must also watch out for other animals that might prey on them, such as American kestrels in North America or tarantulas in South America. Praying mantises are also known to capture and kill hummingbirds, as a reader from West Chester, Pennsylvania, describes. 
A group of babies could easily take down and kill ur frogs. They tend to be cannabilistic too, so u cant exactly keep them together. There is another post on here about the black ants and it turns out that some species can cause harm to ur frogs... look through the posts, u are bound to find it.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

Thank you for such a quick reply! I appreciate it. That is very interesting, and scary. WELL ff's and pinheads it is until i find something suitable for them. 

Anyone have any suggestions for the temp of the tank? Im going to be moving upstairs where it is much hotter than it is in my room down here. I am going to test the temperature to see the exact paterns but it is around 85 is with the air off in the hott days of LA


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

They are scary! I used to catch them when I was younger.. now I am probably going to run if I see one (kidding.. but still)

As far as the temp goes, I'm not quite sure.. but I'm sure you will have the answer very soon as there are so many helpful people here =)

Brandon


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## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

oh i didnt see the temperature question.. sorry. I think 84 might be a little high for some species but suitable for others.. I know that leucs can tolerate the temperature but I am not sure about the other species. I think there are a few cooling methods out there, I hear some people even install computer fans in there tanks! thats a little to complicated for me haha. But other than temp everything else sounds good. You should start another post on cooling methods. You will probably get quite a few replies.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

where are you from? i'm from michigan and we have a couple kinds of ants around here. one kind is a tiny, very dark brown, almost black ant. they're very small moving and don't bite, and are really slow movers too compared to other ants around here. i feed them to my frogs all the time and they love them. no problems so far, but it's only been a couple months.


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## mack (May 17, 2005)

i have heard of folks using praying manits casings for darts. they hatch out really small and you will have a lot of time before they get to adult size. some veteran frogger at nwff was suggesting them. you might run it by dave of ED's fly meat, it might have been his suggestion, or he might know more as an expert bug guy.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

A whole system of gung fu was created by the study of a praying mantis fighting a bird, coincidentally it is called mantis. The old story goes that a monk was walkin through a bamboo forest when he saw a mantid of some sort, he was intrigued and watched it, a bird came down thinking it could make an easy meal of the mantis, and the monk was surprised when the mantis held its ground and fought off the bird which was easily ten times the size of the creature.
My guess is since then this monk spent countless hours studying each move of the mantis, and thats how he created the martial art. The art focuses alot on very quick precise hits and lots of trapping. 
Its amazing how devastating little things can be. 
Sorrry to ramble... but this reminds me of yesterday. It was my first day in pads for football (because i came into the season late), everyone else was already in them. Im on the JV team for my highschool and we practice with our varsity. So here i am only 6'0" and 165 pounds(if you want to know what i look like, my picture is in the loungs on page 5 of pics of us), at Defensive end. And im making our starting Varsity Offensive tackle, who by the way is about 6'3" and 275 pounds ( with the second highest bench on the team) look like an idiot. I was getting through him almost every play and making tackles and sacking the QB. It was so freaking amazing... I mean i was throwin this guy around. Anyways, hate to sound arrogant... but i was just really excited. Thanks for listening to my rambling. It just goes to show what a small guy can do if he just has the right attitude.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Lgevoglanyan said:


> ... Humidity is at about 83% and my temp is around 78. I have one question, maybe two. First I was wondering, if the temp in my viv goes up to around 84 ish for a couple of hours a day will that be ok for a semi adult cobalt tinc?


One thing to remember is that your viv can build up and retain heat pretty efficiently...think of it as a little greenhouse. Running at 78 and shooting up to 84 for a bit during the day is running a bit on the high side as most PDFs prefer it a bit cooler (low to mid 70s). You might want to consider running a reversed cycle on your lighting (lights on at night when it is coolest, off during the day) and using a small fan to circulate some air around the viv.

Good luck.

Bill


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "A group of babies could easily take down and kill ur frogs."

Except that mantids do not cooperate to hunt. 
Newly hatched mantids are fine for the larger dart frogs but you need to make sure that they all eaten as larger mantids can pose a threat to the frogs. 

Not all ants are taken by the frogs, search the forum there have been other posts about which ones are good food items. 

If you are looking for other food sources get a sweep net and use meadow plankton. 

Ed


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

Thanks alot guys for all the info! I used to play football in highschool also but our team was terrible. anyway, all these facts are amazing. I Tthink i am going to hatch the baby mantis in a small container and try to feed the frogs a couple to see if they like it or not.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

well, as youve already heard newly hatched mantids are perfect for larger darts. as for the ants, there is a genus of tiny ants called Crematogaster. their common name is the 'acrobat ant' they are usually very tiny. you often find them in open fields and along the edge of woods foraging around plants and tending to aphids. these ants are easy to distinguish from other ants because they have a spade looking abdomen that is quite pointed at the end. they also wave their abdomen hight over their heads like a scorpion when threatened. if you find these ants foraging, just start flipping rocks and you'll find a colony. there are threads on this forum about crematogaster ants and some people have said its the most sucessful ant to feed to your frogs. do a search on the forum for crematogaster and youll find topics and pics.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

HAHA, i have those little ant all over my back yard! They are so funny how they react when they are threatened. Anyway, good to know I have a food source incase my cultures go bad. Now what frogs would you guys suggest for a tank whos temp may reach mid 80's a few times a week during the summer months. How would a tinc do in these conditions? Most likley it wont happen but im sure ill get a couple of days in the month when this iwll happen maybe a total of 6 days in the year.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

6 days could be deadly to alot of frogs. i think leucs do fine in those temps for a short time. pumilio is another one. other than that, i wouldnt really know because i never let my frogs get that hot. good luck man


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

I read that the luecs (bumble bee darts) are fine at around 82 ish but what other frogs will do good in that temp? Any ideas guys? Im trying to get some more research done but its hard from work due to the fact that boss said shell fire me if i keep reading about animals! LMAO..haha


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

bastimentos pumilio. they can withstand mid 80's


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

josh_r said:


> bastimentos pumilio. they can withstand mid 80's


really, thats cool!!! 

How about an AC to kool down the room in those hot days??

Also, i've heard that aphids make excellent meals too. And if you have a source of termites, they go down nicely. 

I just got myself a trio of Melanophryniscus stelzneri about 1" long each, and I was surprised to see how easily and eagerly to forage the entire viv all day long for springtails and mites that grow naturally in my viv. So if your viv is mature, it should have these things crawling around all over the viv.

I have a question! How many spring tails does it take to satisfy frog of about one 1"
For those of you who dont know the type of frog/toad im talking about, its in my avatar.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

WOW, thanks alot guys you have no idea how much of a help you are! 1 week ago I didnt know much about herps. Today I can tell you how to culture FF's and Mealworms. Learing is a wonderful thing. Know to see if I can find a local pet store that has these frogs for a good price. I know one place where 1" tincs (not counting the length of the limbs) are $45. But i have to check and see how the viv temp does.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

im glad to hear that your learning and having fun doing it! if you want really nice frogs, keep an eye out in the classifieds here on the board. people on this forum have lots of high quality frogs for really good prices. M. stelzneri are really cool toads. ive wanted to get some of them for a while now. good luck with them.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

One last questing guys. Would anyone know of a good onlinve vendor that has bumblebee darts for a good price? Maybe a pair?


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

see the post by dartsanddragons in the classified section... I've gotten leucs from him before at a fabulous price.


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Just a few of my own thoughts on a few things i've seen in this thread.....

I don't see a problem with feeding hatchling mantids, as long as you only feed very few at a time, and make sure they all get eaten. I don't know if north american species could survive in a viv long enough to grow large due to humidity and temperature, but there is always the possibility. 

Ants, I don't think you should get them out of your backyard, at a park, etc.. due to the possible use of pesticides, fertilizers or other toxins produced in the area. If you want to get wild invertebrates to feed your frogs, go to the woods somewhere out of civilization. 

Temperature: My frog room has been hitting a high of 82degrees in the peak of the after noon for a few hours everday for the past few months. I have central air in my apartment, but the frogs are upstairs, so it cools the downstairs the most. I only have two vivs taht are actually getting that warm too, due to the 80watts of CF's on them. They are my 75 gallon ventrimaculatus tank, and my pumilio man creeks exo 18x18x18 cube. I thought the temps may send the vents into hiding, but i just pulled 5 fertile eggs 3 days ago, and the same canister those were in is full of about 15 eggs now . My pumilio have been calling like crazy, and i have a few tadpoles being raised up, and actually being fed at this very moment, as well as eggs regularly every two weeks. If it only hits above 80 for a few hours in the day, I don't think most frogs will have a problem, but if you want to cool your tank, mist it with cool water regularly (every couple of hours) because it will cool the air immediately, as well as continue to cool the surface of the substrate and plants with the evaporation effect. I would not recommend putting in a computer fan to circulate air in the viv, because it dries things out very quickly. If anything, run a fan on your lights only, it will dramatically cool them down, cooling the temp in the viv. A room A/C unit is a good idea as well. A room fan unit is a good idea as well, to help keep the air in the room circulating, so you don't have a 5degree difference between ceiling and floor temps.

I think that is all I have now, these are just opinions and observations that I have made. Take care, and good luck with your soon to be new frogs . 

Ed Parker


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2005)

WOW, thats ALOT of help MAntellaprince. I really appreciate it. It is 10:30 here in LA im sick so I stayed home but it has given me a chance that see how the viv is. It is currently at 78 degrees and the most it will go up to i think is 84. I cold water spray and the fan in the room is a great idea. Do you think leucs (bumble bee) darts will be ok in these temps also?


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

I have never kept leucs, so I am not sure on how well they can withstand temperature. Another thing you should do is measure the temperature of the substrate in your vivarium. I am positive it will be a few degrees lower than the actual air in the vivarium. Remember that the frogs will most likely be on the ground if it is too warm up higher in the viv. A water feature in the vivarium is a good idea, because water stays a few degrees lower than the air temperature, so any running water will help transfer heat. I personally wouldn't feel to safe with 84 degree temps, but make sure you check other parameters: temp in upper viv, lower part of viv, substrate temp, and water temp if you have any open water. Keep any questions you have coming, it is better to learn through our mistakes then your own 

ed parker


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2005)

It is currently about 100 degrees outside and the viv air temp is about 79/80 degrees so i would say the substrate is around 78ish. The hottest ive seen the tank get to is 82 degress but that is with the viv toatally closed off and to A/C or fans running in the room. Pumilio's look great and there is a wealth of info on them but they are so darn expensive. I did put a fan in the room (one of those large construction ones) so i think that might help the temp go down. And I will be misting the tank with cold water. I have not misted yet becuase I want to see how hot it gets under the current circumstances. Anything Im missing? I dont have a water feature becuase The tank is only a 10gal and there is not much space for anything. MY light is PC 15watt. Any other way I can bring the temp down?


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