# Does this frog look skinny?



## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

Hello,

Quick question. My CR G/B Frog has always been eating good and is very bold. But looking at other pictures of Auratus at times It makes this one look more skinny. 

I believe it to be a female and she is 14 + months old. ( I had her 10 months so far)

I feed her every day 13-15 FF's. I also feed SpringTails 1x a week.

Do I need to feed more? I notice that most of the weight is under the body and not on the side like some pics I see "Fat or over weight".

Do you think this is female or male?

Please post honest opinions as I'm thinking of introducing more frogs inside.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

In my opinion your frog is not skinny. You could increase it's food a little which would make it rounder, but I would not try to make it fat. Guessing at the sex it may be female. Hope this helps, Bill


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Agreed. Be better if we had a top down shot, but from what I can see looks fine. Might not hurt to kick a little more food her way if you plan on breeding so she'll have more fat reserves.


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I think I realized since my viv is so large my ff's could be hiding. I will make a feeding station and feed more. I will take a top down picture today. I really appreciate it.


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I agree. She doesn't look skinny but she could use more food. So you are only feeding springs 1 time a week? Why don't you just seed the tank with them? You never know when you will have a fruit fly crash. The springs will be great back up and snacks between meals. And of course there's the added bonus of them cleaning up anything molding. 

Also if your worried about her not getting to the flies, just do a little feeding station by placing some banana in a bottle cap or just the slice with the peel. The flies will eventually gather there. They will even lay eggs so you would have like a mini FF culture.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

In my experience, thinner is better than heavier, unless you're planning on breeding the frogs. 

We keepers tend to overfeed our frogs and I heard that bloating disease can be caused by a fatty liver.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Yes but I've also heard that Dart Frogs in the wild have a lot of good weight on them. They have food available all day in the wild.


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I will setup a feeding station. Here is 1 more pic from top view


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

She looks good to me. My auratus seem to carry their weight underneath rather than on the sides, too. 

Beautiful frog


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yep the auratus look good! Not skinny, but not obese either. Good looking frog


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Yep the auratus look good! Not skinny, but not obese either. Good looking frog


Thanks everyone.. was just being cautious.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DJboston said:


> Yes but I've also heard that Dart Frogs in the wild have a lot of good weight on them. They have food available all day in the wild.


They also have to burn a lot of calories getting that food.. the food gods don't come by routinely and provide a enormous bounty for little efforts. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Steve25 said:


> Thanks everyone. I will setup a feeding station. Here is 1 more pic from top view


Looks fine... be careful when comparing "body shape" on on line pictures as those pictures are often of obese frogs.... 

Ed


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Ed said:


> They also have to burn a lot of calories getting that food.. the food gods don't come by routinely and provide a enormous bounty for little efforts.
> 
> Ed


Actually they have not only larger quantities in the rainforest, but more variety of course. Don't underestimate how many ants and bugs are all over the place. A friend I recently talked to at a frog meeting just got back from Peru with a bunch of people on here that are all pretty advanced breeders. He told me that Dart frogs are way heavier in the wild regardless of the calories they burn they are still larger. They eat more...whether they burn calories to get that food or not, they're huge.

Tincs are especially massive in the wild. Much larger than many people grow them up in captivity.

I would rather have my frogs with some decent weight on them rather than be skinny and underweight. I think there's a difference between a well fed big frog and a OBESE fatty too lol

My female Azureus looks pretty chubby but she is also carrying eggs.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

By the way, that Auratus looks normal. I could never count how many fruit flies I feed. I just feed a lot. Froglets grow pretty fast if fed a lot throughout the day.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DJboston said:


> Actually they have not only larger quantities in the rainforest, but more variety of course. Don't underestimate how many ants and bugs are all over the place. A friend I recently talked to at a frog meeting just got back from Peru with a bunch of people on here that are all pretty advanced breeders. He told me that Dart frogs are way heavier in the wild regardless of the calories they burn they are still larger. They eat more...whether they burn calories to get that food or not, they're huge.
> 
> Tincs are especially massive in the wild. Much larger than many people grow them up in captivity.
> 
> ...


Okay, lets look at this objectively... 

1) daily metabolic requirements do not change between frogs as long as the temperature, weight of the frog and health are the same. (See discussion in Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry (and the assorted discussions here showing examples like this one http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fo...es-week-do-you-feed-your-frogs.html#post82596 ) and the references cited in that tome... 

2) any excessive caloric intakes that exceed the metabolic needs are converted to fat stores.. this is a pretty universal constant.. 

3) variety does not mean that all food items are of equal "quality" (look up analysis comparing termites, ants and other inverts). Fruit flies are considered to be of higher caloric content in captivity 

4) captive feedings are normally done to excess as the frogs are hard wired to consume as much at one time as possible as food is not evenly distributed or available in the wild.. see calculations referenced in number one

5) your position totally ignores enviromental and epigenetic impacts on growth of captive dendrobatids as well as lack of influence of seasonality on growth and reproduction.. 

6) your position ignores any potential impact on time to sexual maturity as compared to that of wild frogs (as this has a direct impact on growth)

This is not as simple as you make it out to be.... If it was then we wouldn't have all of those discussions about "poor quality frogs".. 

Some comments,

Ed


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Just to add anecdotal evidence to support Ed, it seems that proportionally when I compare the number of wild frog pics I've seen, to the number of Captive frog pics I've seen, I've seen as many if not more wild frogs that were skinny. In the wild things tend to be boom or bust....sure some days the frogs will stumble over a termite mound and go to town, others maybe not so much. Also within their territories they have to compete with other animals. 

Maybe frogs are smart enough to remember good feeding spots in their areas, but nothing stops them from getting there only to find its been pillaged by something else first, and not all frogs are going to have territories with abundant HQ food sources because the environment in that area may not support them, and maybe others will be moving around a lot because they are chased from areas and harassed by other frogs who's territories they've invaded while potentially trying to find their own. As Ed says it isn't that simple. There are many variables to consider and while in general life may be abundant in the rain forest that doesn't mean all animals always have it easy. The skinny wild frogs I've seen may have been due to disease and/or parasites but still food quantity and quality would likely play a role in how well they coped with such things.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Gotta keep in mind the difference between "bigger" and fatter. As Ed stated, many of the frogs we keep are obese. This not good for their overall health.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Good points...good debate. A lot of that makes sense. I'll definitely concede to that much! In all honesty, I don't have much time on the computer and didn't put enough thought into the matter. The variables to consider are endless. I've always just fed my frogs really well no matter what. I've never owned an obese frog besides one with a tad extra fluff I guess. Usually if that happens it's good to cut back a bit.


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the key points. I really appreciate it. Very educational.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

I actually thought about this post after I made it and started to think about it as I was driving to work. I definitely started to disagree with myself. Problem is when you have a conversation as a frog meeting you can take things back and revise what you're saying, on a forum, once it's in text and people read it, you can look silly for saying something. Not as bad as the person in the beginners forum telling someone that ALL Dart frogs in the hobby are captive bred and as such they can't have parasites or diseases lol


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