# A. Galactonotus color question



## SmallScaleDan (Nov 16, 2008)

I was talking with a dart frog breeder of much experience and knowledge about the colors of galacts, and his assertion is that all of the colors can be born of any color phase of frogs.

He said that although people try to select for one color or another by selectively breeding them, they are all the same thing and will "throw" any color. 

In the species section on this site, they are described as specific and seperate localities, although there is no specific information about where these localities are and how far apart they are. 

What are your thoughts? 

I'm specifically interested in your personal experiences with your own animals, and empirical data on localities more than your opinion.  

Dan


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Are you saying hypothetically, of course, "If a red galact and an orange galact breed, the off spring could be red or orange or yellow?"
I just want to be sure of the question you're asking.
I guess another way to ask it is if two orange galcats breed, will you get orange, red and yellow froglets?


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## Darts15 (Jun 5, 2011)

I think what he is taking about is when for example orange galactanotus breed they can have anywhere from solid orange to 50% orange etc. From my gathered knowledge, I dont think this is true in the wild, but in captivity I wouldnt be surprised due to mixing of these localities simply because they are orange galacts. Any other opinions?


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## SmallScaleDan (Nov 16, 2008)

What he was saying was: 

Orange, yellow, red and everything in between are all the same thing, and that they can pop out of any combination. 

So, his yellows throw oranges as well as yellows. 

Dan


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

All I can say... is that this is the first I've ever seen anything like this. 

However, while I have read extensively about them, I have never actually kept them.

I would imagine maybe checking with someone like Patrick Nabors (who has had success with them) would be a good place to start.


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## Frog Tropics (Jul 18, 2012)

I believe that to be false (mostly).

While it's true that there will be some color variation in the offspring such that an orange pair may throw off light to dark orange offspring or a red pair may throw off cherry or brick red offspring, all galactonotus species breed true provided you are not crossing color morphs to begin with. In other words, red pairs produce red offspring, yellow pairs produce yellow offspring, and orange pairs produce orange offspring.

We breed literally hundreds per year for the commercial market and I've never seen an exception to the breed true rule (melanistics aside). That said, we never mix localities or morphs, so I'm not sure what would happen if, say, an orange and a red were bred. I guess it would boil down to Menedlian genetics and you'd probably get a mix of red and orange, but good luck selling them...


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

So just as a follow up, those people that are labeling red galacts as "fire red" or "cherry red" are doing so for sale purposes only and they could just be a natural variatiion in color within the same goup of froglets perhaps?


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Bingo. Sounds like the coral market. Give zoas a fancy and people will pay top dollar.


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Oops fancy name


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

That is a bunch of hogwash to put it mildly.

Most of the galacts in the hobby came from Bernd Pieper, who collected them, bred them in Europe and spread them out.

Originally all the galacts were separated by morph but likely they have been mixed, specifically the 95% orange ones, which have been bred with 75% orange and solid orange. Some breeders like Thomas Villegas kept their lines clean so finding out lineage of a line can be the best way to hedge your bets against contamination.

As stated you can get a darker or lighter version of the same color, but you will not get moonshines from reds for example. It would take a lot of evidence to prove something like that was naturally occurring.

I have no idea what the history of stewarts Koi morph was, they could have been a mixed bastard of captive frogs, a real morph that didn't make it in captivity like the orange wedge, or morph in between two "distant" morphs.

People who have been in the field in Brazil report many differant morphs of galacts, much like we see with auratus in Panama. 

Buyer beware of fancy names and ignorance.

Just 2 cents
Eric


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

I have 3 yellow galacts that I got as tads from a breeder I trust & 2 are very yellow & 1 is more of a orange color, guess I thought that was normal. Maybe not ?


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Eric I can totally see that. A breeder years ago saying ok this group is 95% orange and this group is 75% orange, of course the group of 95% are gonna be worth more money. 

I hope this answers the OP question as he has a bunch of orange and yellows listed for sale. I hope he's not telling people they can be kept and bred together.


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

This is an interesting topic. Dan, did your orange galacts and yellow galacts come from the same tadpoles? Were these all produced by one pair of frogs?

I remember keeping some red galactonotus a year or so ago and had found 2 stray adults that were a red orange coloration, labeled as reds. I contacted Patrick about the issue but I don't believe he could remember if they were a very dark orange or a very light red, seems to be a little gray area in definite colors. I'll see if I can hunt down some pictures.


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## d.crockett (May 27, 2009)

I have been wondering a little bit lately about people selling "yellow" galacs. From what I can tell they look like very light oranges. The yellows that I have seen in person are very, very yellow. I think the pics on Nabor's site show it the most accurately. Is it possible that people are actually confusing one morph, perhaps what gets called the 70% orange morph, as two separate morphs?


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## SmallScaleDan (Nov 16, 2008)

There's some good info here, thanks all. To answer the questions you asked of me: 

We are not crossing them together, or suggesting that anyone do it. I just heard different info from different people and wanted your opinions. 

Thanks for the info, 

Dan 

PS I would still love to hear any info on the distribution of this frog in the wild, and where the colors occur, how separate they are etc.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

d.crockett said:


> I have been wondering a little bit lately about people selling "yellow" galacs. From what I can tell they look like very light oranges. The yellows that I have seen in person are very, very yellow. I think the pics on Nabor's site show it the most accurately. Is it possible that people are actually confusing one morph, perhaps what gets called the 70% orange morph, as two separate morphs?


My understanding was that the percentages were relating to the coverage of the orange color compared to the black. So the frog would be covered 70% in orange and 30% black.

It wasn't really a good way to track them though IMO.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

d.crockett said:


> I have been wondering a little bit lately about people selling "yellow" galacs. From what I can tell they look like very light oranges. The yellows that I have seen in person are very, very yellow. I think the pics on Nabor's site show it the most accurately. Is it possible that people are actually confusing one morph, perhaps what gets called the 70% orange morph, as two separate morphs?


Some of that may be just the natural color change a frog goes through as it ages. I currently have one yellow galact, and it is no doubt a bright, lemon yellow.


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## d.crockett (May 27, 2009)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Some of that may be just the natural color change a frog goes through as it ages. I currently have one yellow galact, and it is no doubt a bright, lemon yellow.


So are all these "yellows" actually being labeled correctly? For example if you look at the LLL dart selection (I am not condoning a purchase from them BTW) and they list yellows and oranges. They look the same to me, so are they mislabeled? Same thing for the add that is posted in the classifieds for oranges and yellows currently. Are they being separated into color based only on looks? (Not accusing anything, just an honest question) I feel like true yellows are not what I am seeing.


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## jaree2 (Apr 1, 2008)

I have a couple pairs of breeding yellows I purchased through Josh's Frogs quite a while ago. I've been breeding these for a few years and have had a lot of froglets come through these guys, and the vast majority come out a bright yellow phenotype like the parents. A small percentage of these froglets come out with a darker yellow coloration, which in the right lighting really comes off as a light orange. I've often attributed this to supplementation and have held back a few of these guys to see if there is an age-related change to their coloration. To this point, I've seen one of these guys lighten up over time, and the rest often keep a 'sunburnt' tinge to the edges of the yellow dorsum. These frogs come from the Kenny Nazumi line and both pairs seem to throw these froglets with equal frequency. I'd heard similar experiences from one other individual working with yellows and would be curious to hear input from others working with these frogs. It seems like this is a natural variance in phenotype for these frogs vs. the result of dietary/environmental factors.

-Jack


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## djone2 (Mar 8, 2012)

I recently bought 5 tadpoles that were labeled as yellow at a show in San Diego, and I am guessing they came from the same line as SmallScaleDan. They are now decently sized froglets and are healthy but they are definitely not "yellow" as I have seen yellows before. They range from a light orange to a pumpkin orange. (I can take pictures when I get home, but it may be tough as its heavily planted and they are still pretty shy).

I am a bit concerned because I am not sure if I was misled or if this is a natural color variation and I would hate to spread mislabeled/mixed frogs once they breed. Any thoughts or input would be appreciated

-Diego


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## habubak (Jun 7, 2008)

I've been keeping and breeding red galacs for 6 or 7 years now. I've never had red parents "throw" a yellow. 

I HAVE had various, I dunno, I guess you'd call them intensities in red - from orange-red to a reddish-maroon. Whether it was genetic or environmental I can't say definitely - just an observation. Also, I've had various patterns - from mostly-red to very highly/finely spotted/speckled. However, I have a group - so who knows who is breeding with who - but I'm skeptical of these "yellow can throw red" claims. Is it possible? I can't say no - I've just never seen it.

I haven't been letting my galacs breed for about a year now - so please, no one start PMing me! I just don't have the energy - for tads or PMs!!  

Cheers,
-Steve
San Antonio, TX


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## zach77 (Feb 8, 2012)

This thread is another good reminder to do your due diligence before purchasing from any breeder.


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## Capitol City Frog Farm (Jul 11, 2011)

False. Different frogs.


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