# Unknown Epipedobates frog part 2



## Guest (Aug 7, 2004)

OK guys..
This was sold as E.femoralis, but have doubts...
Thought it might be pictus, but lacks the shank marks.
Then thought might be hahneli, but again lacking underside marks on legs and arms.

Here are the pics:


































Thanks for the help,


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## jbeetle (Feb 8, 2004)

First off, great frog (like I already told you lol). I have some quick questions; What size are these frogs? Is the lower line blue or white? It looks blue, but just want to make sure.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2004)

I would hate to say it but, it may as well be a hybrid. Or it could possibly be a new species as stated in previous post. I am not that familiar with PDF but quiet a few people answered in your previous post what they thought it could or might have been. The only true way to tell would possibly be a DNA test. It is a nice looking frog and I do hope you find out what it is and hopefully that it is not a hybrid.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2004)

Hey scorpion1971,
This is a different frog and I didn't post the original post. You are correct it could be a hybrid, but I don't thinks so. These are not my frogs, and I believe are W/C. The person he got them from is an importer.

Hey Jon,
They are not believed to be adults, because no breeding behavior has been observed. The frogs right now are 3/4"-1" maybe slightly bigger. I didn't really look at the size because of their age. The lower line is white with a slight blueish tint. The 3rd picture is close to the true colors. The flash marks on the hind legs where bright orange to bright yellow. The frogs were a little variable there.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2004)

Here are some Epipedobates hahneli pics that look very close but the underside throws me off.... The papers I am looking at don't have a description of E.hahneli so if some has an article on them please let me know. 









_image from http://www.geneise.com/frogs/images/e_hahneli.jpg_

and
















_images from http://www.naturalsciences.be/Kok/E.hanheli.html_

I also didn't get a good look at the toes to see if they had basal webbing or not. I will see if I can get a close up out of the photos of the foot.


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Ben,

E. femoralis is a very variable species depeneding on where it was collected, but the diagnosis of the species includes the follow: 1) toes basally webbed, 2) dorsum black or brown with complete yellow or gold lateral stripes, 3) white, bluish white, or silver vendtrolateral stripes, 4) light proximoventral calf-spot absent, 5) venter black, brown, or dark gray with white or bluish white marbling (usually not extending onto throat). So how does your frog compare with this?

Best,

Chuck


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2004)

Compared to that I would say yes E.femoralis, but I am having a hard time telling if the toes are basally webbed. Mainly because I have never compared a frog with it to one with out. I can't find a clear picture of the foot to tell if it is webbed or not. I guess I will have to try and get a clear shot of that sometime.
So until then you have convenced me that it is a E.femoralis... Thank you.


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

Hey Ben,

My young femoralis look exactly like the photos you show, I've morphed out about 100 in the last year; some have yellow flash marks some orange, some no flash marks, but they all look like the frogs in your photos, speaking of the shape and body proportions. Like Chuck mentioned both femoralis and pictus are incredibly variable throughout their known ranges. Does your importer know which country they originated from. Just a hunch but Suriname is the only country sending shipments of darts currently.

thanks
ERic


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

It looks a lot like the juvenile femoralis I have seen.


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