# 2 dead tinc froglets - cocofiber?



## motoro (Sep 30, 2007)

*Help. Did Coco Fiber kill my frogs?*

Hello,
I'm a first time PDF keeper and things are not going well at all. Brought home three Tinc froglets (.75inch) from black jungle and put them into a ten gallon tank with a temp ranging from 71-80 degrees day-night, about 100% humidity, some nice plants, and daily to twice daily feedings of dusted fruit flys. The substrate is a couple of inches of saturated Coco-fiber with a basement of pebble gravel.

The frogs were very active for the first couple of days, but the activity decreased, they became thin, stopped eating, and now two are dead. This is all in just about 1.5 weeks.

I have gone over all of this many times now with they guys at Black Jungle, and although very willing to take the time to talk with me, they can't tell me whats going wrong.

After racking my brain, here is what I think happened. The coco-fiber got on the frogs, and got in the way of the frogs feeding. Every morning the stuff was plastered all over the glass where the frogs initially climbed, and I watched it get in the way of fruit fly predation attemps. 

I don't want to try again with Froglets unless I figure out what went wrong this time. Was the substrate the culprit? What should I do next time?

I would so much appreciate any help. These frogs are clearly amazing animals and I would love to keep them... but I don't want to cost any more their little lives.

Thanks.
Sam

Uncle Ned's Fish Factory
Millis MA
508-533-5969


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## DanC (Mar 24, 2006)

While it is unlikely that the coco fiber caused the death it's not impossable. Do you have any moss or leaves on top of the coco? How long was the tank set-up before you put the frogs in? Don't get discouraged. Sometimes things just happen. The guys at Black Jungle (Mike and Rich) are a wealth of knowledge. If they can't pin ponit the problem it might be just a case of _hit happens. We all have had our share of unexpected deaths. I hope this helps a little.

Good Luck,
Dan
http://www.dansrainforestgems.com


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## motoro (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks for the help...

The terrarium was set up the same day the frogs came home and other than a piece of wood and a few plants the cocofiber substrate is what the froglets lived on. When my concerns began I sped up the terrarium design process and added a bunch of leaf littler and more wood... but it was too late by then.

If this was the isolated death of one frog I would chop it up to the stress of a new home and froglets in general being rather delicate. However, all three froglets rapidly declined in health and now two are dead. The remainder was stronger from the begining and now that I have removed it from the initial terrarium it seems to be doing a bit better. It is now living in a 2.5 gal with some leaves and a moist paper towl.

If i set up a new terrarium... how should i do things differently?

Sam
Uncle Ned's Fish Factory
Millis MA
508 533 5969


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

> If i set up a new terrarium... how should i do things differently?


That sucks! I hate losing an animal!  
I doubt it was coco fibre that killed them. More likely stress.
Try setting the Vivarium up at least a week or two before you get the frogs, make sure its planted, checked out the temps/humidity ranges, seed it with springtails, put your moss/ground cover in and give it a chance to get established. dont put anything live in until the silicone/great stuff etc is well dried. Make sure you have fruit fly production down, dechlorinate all water to be used in the viv, dont overfeed, handle, or overdo photos of the froglets. When they are young they are easily stressed, and if they were shipped a week ago, they should be in a temp enclosure with nothing more than LFS, a sprig or two of pothos, and some magnolia or other leaves/film cans for safe cover. That will be easier for them to find food in a smaller enclosure. Adding frogs to a new viv you just built earlier that day isnt the best way to start delicate froglets.
I would suggest you put them in a temp enclosure, until the viv is good and established, and everything checks out before adding them.
Good Luck!


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## glitch (Feb 25, 2007)

would a fecal on the remaining frogs do any good?


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## motoro (Sep 30, 2007)

*update*

OK.. update.

I removed the frogs from the failing terrarium and set them up in a 2.5 w/ paper towel bottom, a water dish, and an oak leaf. As I said, the two weakest frogs died, but the strongest of the three has recovered significantly. The froglet is now eating multiple flies at a sitting and pooping up a storm.
 

So my guess now is that the extensive coco-fiber bare flooring in my "first-try terrarium" was too much for the little guys to handle. When my tinct gets a little older I will place it into a terrarium with a more mature plant scape, moss, leaves, and maybe some stones. 

Thanks for your help... and of course I will most welcome any additional advice

Sam
Uncle Ned's Fish Factory
Millis MA
508-533-5969


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Sam
I'm sure you noticed the frogs were kept at BJ on sphagnum moss and leaf litter.

I've kept froglets on everything from paper towels (change them every 3-4 days btw), leaf litter, sphagnum, woodland moss but never straight coco. Never aquarium gravel (which I mention only b/c you see others doing this and I'm not sure where they get the idea from but....)

I prefer sphagnum, and oak leaves personally. 

New arrivals shouldnt be kept in open glass aquaria. Cover the sides with brown paper, and lower the light level to minimal until they acclimate.

Everyone wants to toss them into a bare tank and click on the lights so they can see their new prizes. Then throw in piles of ff's until they are covered in them (not saying you did this, just making a point) I just dont think that is great for their stress level.

think calm, stress free and I'd strongly encourage you to grow them out in SEPARATE containers/tanks. You can introduce them into a larger viv together when the time comes, realizing ultimately 3 tincs in any tank will end in 2 tincs 90% of the time.

Best,

S


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

did you dechlorinate the water to wet the cocofiber?

I think something could have gone wrong when you set the terrarium up the same day.


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## Yidso (Mar 16, 2007)

Oddly enough the same thing happened to me with my 3 P.Vittatus from Black Jungle. Very active and happy, then all the sudden lower activity, hiding, and then two thinned out and died. The last one of them just vanished from the tank. My problems may have been the substrate too which was planting soil above some coco fiber.The reason it was in there was because when i planted the tank the soil fell in and i figured it wouldnt do any harm so i left it. Then again the problems could have also been my lighting or my temps. Good luck with your frogs.

-Yidso


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Vitts are incredibly hardy...

I'd try again but really go with Sphagnum and leaf litter, cover the sides so that the animal isnt looking out/climbing the walls ect. Lower light levels...

I'd set up tanks a week ahead of time if possible....get some springtails going and keep that mother culture while at the same time seeding tanks from it. Easy pickings for new arrivals too shy/stressed to hunt for hoping ff's....

Best,

S


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