# small mantids with frogs?



## cornchild (Oct 15, 2010)

do people do this? cuz id love me a few of those lil guys


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## cornchild (Oct 15, 2010)

i like the african mantis but Acontiothespis multicolor seems alot safer


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

what flesh is saying is simple. If you knew anything about mantids you would understand that they attack with movement. No matter the size a mantid will ALWAYS attack something relatively similar in size or even a little bigger.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

ummm.....yeah, thats not a good idea at all


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

if you wany mantids just get a seperte viv. They ae ruthless murdering alien robots and are really amazing. Observe them for a while, then think back to this. Imagine a $100 frog going the way of a cricket or small roach.... not a pretty picture


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Would be cooler in the WILD, then the colorful dart wins by POISONOUS default! 

But no definitely means no in this case.



Alex


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

True, I've had mantids attack me. They are brutal little animals that don't take crap from anybody, except for the odd quicker bird/lizard/snake/12 year old with a sore thumb from getting bit.....


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

> True, I've had mantids attack me. They are brutal little animals that don't take crap from anybody, except for the odd quicker bird/lizard/snake/12 year old with a sore thumb from getting bit.....


That's one of the funniest things I've heard all day.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

In the fifth grade my science teacher showed slides of her vacation to some rainforest area. She showed a slide of a praying mantis holding a nearly decapitated lizard that was bigger than the mantis! I don't remember her name, don't remember where she visited, don't remember any of the other slides. But over 30 years later, that photo is STILL burned into my brain! You see I had a pet lizard at the time.

So fine, maybe you are allowed to. But please...we don't want to hear about it!
Doug


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## RNKot (Jun 9, 2010)

Mantis VS Lizard (maybe newt I do not see clear)
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6dbjCjJQKx8/0.jpg
Mantis VS mice 
http://static-wtb.cheshirecat.net/images/mantis_eats_mouse.jpg

Really a not an option, they are ultimate predators no mater what.

When mantis are young they are a food for a PDF, when mantis are grown - the frog will became a food


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

I personally have a 3 inch Carolina mantis, and she will attack HUGE grasshoppers that are about her size. However, ant mantids or tiny orchid mantids would probably work (albeit if the frog doesnt't eat them).










I think these mantids are way too small to attack a fully grown PDF...


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## mbourdon (Dec 21, 2009)

A question along them same line (I think). I have been told that some people have put mantis egg cases in their tanks to provide food for frogs (obviously when they hatch - the mantids, not the frogs). Obviously this would require some attention to ensure that none of the young mantids got too big (and by doing so become dangerous to the frogs), but I was curious if anyone had tried this and what their results had been. I am always looking for other viable food sources to add variety to my frogs diets and this seems like a pretty cool way to accomplish it.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I have fed out young mantids to frogs, but I hatched the ootheca outside the vivarium. I put maybe 10-15 mantids into each vivaria, and they were quickly devoured.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

If Mantids were 6 feet long, we wouldn't be at the top of the food chain. The mouse and lizard photos are pretty amazing.


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## RNKot (Jun 9, 2010)

JimO said:


> If Mantids were 6 feet long, we wouldn't be at the top of the food chain...


Some time ago read an article (i won't prooflink it) that with current atmospheric pressure, attractive force, oxygen level and due to chitin structure insects on earth can't grow more than ~300 grams. Basicly it's because of chitin won't support a more weight & respiratory apparatus based on trachea won't suply enough oxygen.
God save us to find a planet with appropriate conditions...


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

There's a horror movie with mantids from another planet that dress up as humans to hide among the population. It's pretty entertaining and brutal. I wish I could remember what it's called.


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Don't do it. I did and it was a big mistake. The mantid was smaller than the frog but took it down and ate the throat out of an adult D. azureus. 

Best,

Chuck


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

They make awesome viv subjects on their own. Don't get discouraged from keeping them just because is rediculous to mix them with frogs. 
RNKot- We learned about that principle in biology. The change in atmosphere is why we no longer have dragonflies with a 6 foot wingspan. I learned respiration was the limiting factor, not the ability of chitin to support increased mass.


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

fleshfrombone said:


> There's a horror movie with mantids from another planet that dress up as humans to hide among the population. It's pretty entertaining and brutal. I wish I could remember what it's called.


That would be Mimic.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

That would be enough to make me yank the mantid out of the viv and squash it.


chuckpowell said:


> Don't do it. I did and it was a big mistake. The mantid was smaller than the frog but took it down and ate the throat out of an adult D. azureus.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chuck


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

tachikoma said:


> That would be Mimic.


Mimic? I'm going to find it. I need to see that.


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## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

JimO said:


> Mimic? I'm going to find it. I need to see that.


The little autistic boy called them Mr. Funny Shoes.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

I would suggest you go to the mantid forums and ask: Mantidforum

The posts here seem to be geared towards the larger stereotypical mantises when there are other better species choices that are lesser known.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

tachikoma said:


> That would be Mimic.


No that's not it. This was a horror/comedy about a family of human sized mantids living in suburbia. LOL the daughter gets pregnant from a local boy and I believe she eats him.


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

fleshfrombone said:


> No that's not it. This was a horror/comedy about a family of human sized mantids living in suburbia. LOL the daughter gets pregnant from a local boy and I believe she eats him.


Yeah def a different movie then. lol


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Deb


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## Xan Stepp (Aug 17, 2009)

> No that's not it. This was a horror/comedy about a family of human sized mantids living in suburbia. LOL the daughter gets pregnant from a local boy and I believe she eats him.


The movie you're thinking of is called "The Applegates," and the mantids come from the Amazon, but the plot doesn't dwell on that point.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)




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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Notice all the videos involve the larger mantids. I HIGHLY doubt these would touch your frogs:


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

BS! That little guy right there would easily break a thumbnails leg and eat its throat. Thats what mantids are all about


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

That's what I thought and was proved wrong. Different species but it was about that size - the frog was twice the size of the mantid. Try it - you'll see.

Best,

Chuck



frogparty said:


> BS! That little guy right there would easily break a thumbnails leg and eat its throat. Thats what mantids are all about


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

After reading this post,and seeing some of the little mantids shown, I thought " Lets google 'Mantids for sale" and I found a site which sells them, and I spent a bit of time reading and looking. There are some really cool looking mantids, but I dunno, maybe eventually I'd get one, but not yet. I had no idea there were mantids that tiny. Pretty cool. And the videos do make me think they are ruthless murdering alien robots.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Wallace Grover said:


> Notice all the videos involve the larger mantids.


Actually, I think the one with the hummingbird was pretty small. I'll grant you the ones with the mouse and snake were BIG!

And personally, I like mantids (blood-thirsty killers that they are  ), I had a few at one point.

Deb


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Not sure I'd refer to them as "Bloodthirsty" even in jest....

They do what they do.....and are very efficient.

The sensationalism and media hype still adversely effects all species of shark, to this day.


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

Man after seeing these videos I am so glad I never tried to catch the one I saw on a window in South Carolina. It was around 5 or so inches long by the looks of it it could have caused a nasty bite/cut.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

tachikoma said:


> it could have caused a nasty bite/cut.


Naw, I see them outside my office fairly often. I always pick them up and move them to a less obvious spot. I'm always afraid someone phobic will see them and squish them out of fear/ignorance.

I love mantids and had never even considered that one might bite me (although there was a video of that on youtube also  ).

Deb


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

tachikoma said:


> Man after seeing these videos I am so glad I never tried to catch the one I saw on a window in South Carolina. It was around 5 or so inches long by the looks of it it could have caused a nasty bite/cut.


Mantids are great! Been catching them and defending them since I was about 6 years old (>40 years ago). Haven't been bitten yet.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> Notice all the videos involve the larger mantids. I HIGHLY doubt these would touch your frogs:


Dude, you're freaking crazy! All this evidence and you are still encouraging him to try it? What else would the mantid try to eat? Those tiny little fruitflies? Seriously?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey Cornchild, the onslaught will most likely continue till you chime in and say that this is why you were asking and that you are convinced and won't be trying it. Even then, waiting so long, at this point it's going to take a while for it to play itself out.
Doug


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

The mantid would be in much more danger than the frog. I say try it, if you don't I'm tempted to tbh...


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> Dude, you're freaking crazy! All this evidence and you are still encouraging him to try it? What else would the mantid try to eat? Those tiny little fruitflies? Seriously?


Actually, believe it or not, FF are cultured in the mantid commnity specifically for the purpose of feeding the babies or tiny species...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> The mantid would be in much more danger than the frog. I say try it, if you don't I'm tempted to tbh...


So then you would totally disregard Chuck Powell's personal experience in this matter? Your advice is irresponsible and, well, disrespectful. 
Doug


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Who's Chuck Powell?

I said he can try it, of course there is risk involved, but since none of you can seem to find any evidence on ant mantids attacking frogs, neither side "wins." I'm sure the OP has seen the inherrent threats, however I can only hope he has also witnessed the unexplored. I would barely call trying new things irresponsible or disrespectful...

You don't need to drag the hobby down by condemning that of which you don't know about, or else we would get nowhere.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> Who's Chuck Powell?


Founder of Frog Day and a generally well respected name in frogging. He has already posted on this thread if you read it. What I know of Mantids is that they are predators. If you have personally kept them successfully with dart frogs, then by all means, recommend it to others.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

That little mantid is the same size as a thumbnail. f youve leared anything from those videos, its that mantids feel just fine tackling prey as big as they are. Just because its littler doesnt mean they behave differently. They are hunters, killers and attack movement. Why on earth even risk it? I feel like certain people are attemting to argue a point that they have ZERO personal experience with. Not only do they NOT have experience mixing the two, it doesnt even sound like they have any mantis experience at all. Having observed mantids in the wiLd on 3 continents, and having kept several species, including raising them from ootheca to adult IN VIVARIUMS, I can say with a fairly educated voice that this is a BAD IDEA


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wallace Grover, I insulted you and I apologize. I can be rather hardheaded. I respectfully submit that trying this is something that you should try yourself before recommending it to someone fairly new to frogkeeping.
Doug


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Meh, tbh I was just encouraging originality, it probably is not a good idea...


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