# tadpole feeding amounts - updated (good news)



## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

Well i'm wondering if i'm feeding enough as these guys were laid around thanksgiving last year. They're tinc tads... Zoom in, you can see the fish food on the surface. I use sera micron. I was told it's better to feed less then to overfeed but now I'm wondering if I'm underfeeding as these guys seem past due.












Jeff


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Please allow me to hip you to this thread:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... c&start=15


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

Thanks Brian. I'll have to upgrade my tadpole food for the next time I get eggs. 

However, I just read through that thread and didn't find too much on the actual amount being fed. Granted, sera micron was taking the longest by far but I'd throw a lowball estimate that my tads have been in the water for at least 90 days and no sign of back legs. How worried should I be?











(that's a quarter)



Jeff


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

No experience with tincs, but with my two auratus morphs and imitator, they are morphing in about two months.
What is you're water like?


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

1-2 changes per week, distilled water with about a tablespoon? of blackwater extract. Ive been putting enough in to stain the water while not making it too dark.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Distilled water has no minerals...
I use RO water, brought to 100 (+/-25)ppm tds with RO right, 1 to 2 kH on the hardness scale (with kent pH stable), and around 5mL per gallon of kent blackwater expert...
Also, some oak leaves for cover and additional tannins, and some java moss or hornwort, to liven things up a bit...


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

90 days and no signs of legs, that' s not good. Mine are morphed out by that point. I keep mine communially in a sweater box with lots of java moss, algae, and feed frozen bloodworms/brine shrimp. As for ammount, I couldn't tell you. My setup is not at all sensitive to the ammount of food fed, so I don't pay attention to it.



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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

So how do i go about getting better water in the future. I can't afford an ro filter at this time. Defaced, what's your water quality like?

jeff


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I'd find a grocery store that has an RO filter unit in it and buy from there. It's usually really inexpensive. They usually also sell distilled water in jugs, but it's about a buck a gallon. They might have RO in jugs, but I can't remember if I've seen any. 

My water is less than desireable, mind you my last tads morphed out with SLS. I'm using aged/treated Columbus city water with tad tea made from boiled oak leaves, just enough to change the water color. I have enough java moss in there to cover the bottom of the box, air stone to keep the water moving a bit, and plenty of algae from my lights. 

Right now I've induced a dry spell to keep my frogs from breeding to give them a break and hopefully build up some vit/minerals to make healthy eggs. In the next month or so I'm going to kick in the wet season so production should start up again. When I start getting tads from them, I'm going to use the same setup, but with reconstituted distilled or RO water, depends on price and filtration method.



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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

I haven't been able to find anything less than the kits that are several hundred dollars.

Jeff


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

what temperatures are you guys maintaining the water at?


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Room temp...
If your room temp is on the cool side, say less than 70, avoid having a fan blowing near them, as the cups will cool down from evaporation.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

I used SanDiego water(yep from the sink) with blackwater extract. I always keep a few gallons of water sitting(evaporating the clorine) so when I use it, it has been sitting for a few days at least. The black water extract turns the gallons of water brown, but I can barely see the color in the small cups I keep the tads in. I have 5 froglets so far and all seem healthy.. All my tadpoles are doin good too.. 
I feed tropical fish food, and HGH frog bites from petsmart, once every 2 to 4 days. I change the water out about once a week or sooner.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Does an increased temperature cause faster morphing of smaller tads or does it increase the size of the morphing froglet?

Sorry to hijack... i was initally wondering if the "slow to morph" tads were being kept significantly cooler than normal room temp.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2006)

I have been lurking here for the past little while but thought this would be a great thread to post in 

I have Golden Mantella tads right now that are about 5 weeks old. ( I know they aren't Tinks but they are still tads ). They all have developed back legs within the last week and are getting bigger every day. I am feeding them Sera Mikropan every other day (just a small pinch) and am doing water changes every other day with aged tap water. I have the tads in tuperware containers with about 3/4 inch of water and some Riccia in the containers for them to hide in and munch off of.

Now everything I have done up till now has all been guess work since finding any info on raising Mantella tads is slim to none. But I have only lost one tad total. I think I would have been very discouraged if my tads still hadn't changed by now. 90 days seem like a very long time 

Good luck


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

digitalflipkick said:


> I haven't been able to find anything less than the kits that are several hundred dollars.
> 
> Jeff


i don't think defaced meant buy an ro unit. i think some grocery stores have ro units that you can buy water from. i've never done it so i don't know specifically how it works but i think i remember reading of people doing it.


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

> what temperatures are you guys maintaining the water at?


They're kept at room temps. I'd guess they're around 70-72. But I'll have to get a more exact reading, this could possibly have something to do with it if temps are cooler. 



> I think I would have been very discouraged if my tads still hadn't changed by now. 90 days seem like a very long time Sad


It sucks. These guys are my first tads... 



> i don't think defaced meant buy an ro unit. i think some grocery stores have ro units that you can buy water from.


That I will have to look into and see if I can find something local around long island.

Jeff


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> i don't think defaced meant buy an ro unit. i think some grocery stores have ro units that you can buy water from. i've never done it so i don't know specifically how it works but i think i remember reading of people doing it.


Yep, that's what I meant. The in-store RO units around here use a 7(?) stage filteration setup. I don't remember what each stage is, but, I think the price is like 40 cents a gallon.

I have my tad's on a heating pad. I haven't checked their water temp recently but my best guess is that it's in the mid 70s. 

With increased temps, there is an increased morph rate, but I don't remember the specifics. I think the temps had to be closer to 80 to really see a difference though. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I read it in passing and am fuzzy on the details.

For size, my dwart tincs morphed out at just under 1/2". If they didn't have SLS they would have been great froglets.



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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

*Update*

Okay, my pair of sips have finally laid another clutch of three eggs. Their first was in nov and unfortunately, those three tads are still swimming around my desk. I'm hoping for better success this time around. Here are the changes I'm going to be making, tell me what you think. 

- Changing water from distilled to RO Water (If I can get it, if not aged tap)

- Maintaining water temps at 70-75

- Changing food from sera micron to a combination of frogbites/tetramin

In addition, I'll be changing the water 1-2 times per week. As far as mainting the water temps, what would everyone suggest in getting them a little higher than room temp? A heating pad? Also, I've been using only blackwater extract. Anything else I should be adding to the water? Boiled oak leaves? 

Thanks,

Jeff


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I remember reading somewhere that warmer water resulted in faster morphing tads, but they morphed smaller, and had a higher rate of defects. Cooler water can make the process take longer, but the froglets are usually bigger.
I wouldn't really worry about the water temp as long as it is in the 70's...On the page on Saurian's website (the same page I mentioned before) he reccomends to try laying a piece of plastic over the cups, to minimize evaporative cooling.
I would be very cautious about using a heat pad...If I were to use one I'd make sure it had a good thermostat, and not have the cups directly on the pad, but rather in a tray of water on top of the pad.


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

Brian, I remember hearing the same - that cooler temps produced larger, healthier froglets. However, my situation is that room temps have been a bit below 70, usually around 65 or so. I'm thinking that this is too cold and could be one of the reasons my first cluth hasn't morphed. Heating pads are risky, but I think I may need to rig something up to get the temps a little higher for this second clutch.

Jeff


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

FYI - I've seen "incubators" created by simply making an egg crate (which most of us have laying around!) false botton in an unused aquarium or better yet an insulated cooler. Add several inches of water and then run a regular aquarium heater into the tank or cooler to heat the water. Adjust the heater until you get the desired temp. The water helps stabilize the temp, instead of a heat pad, which can get very hot very quickly...

I've seen several variations of this set-up on the board. The right search would probably turn them up...

Good luck with whatever you come up with!


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2006)

Jeff--

I don't have the low temp problem, but our set up is similar to what JL-Exotics posted (except it's in a sweater box). One benefit is the when you are working with a larger volume of water, temps stay a little more stable when the room temp fluctuates. I don't raise communally.

I feed our tads twice a day and only if their food is gone. I alternate feeding frogbites (about 6 for larger tads with say one front leg, 2-3 for smaller tads starting with back legs) and fish flake food (flake approx. the size of their body). Most everyone will be fed twice per day, but occassionally there will be one or two that won't need it.

Of course once their front legs pop many will stop eating in which case I stop feeding (although I've had a few eat almost until they day they come out of the water and I haven't seen a delay in their emergence as a result of continued feeding).


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> I would be very cautious about using a heat pad...If I were to use one I'd make sure it had a good thermostat, and not have the cups directly on the pad, but rather in a tray of water on top of the pad.


Very good point if you are raising yours individually. I didn't mention that I'm raising mine communally in what ammounts to about 3 gallons of water in a 32qt Sterilite sweater box. My heating pad is always on, but on the lowest setting. I haven't taken it apart and looked at it's output on a meter, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't switch on and off to control the heat, but just draws less current. I might have to do that when I get home.... hmm....



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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

*Update*

Hey guys,

Here's an update. I've made some changes: I switched from sera micron to a mix of frog bites / tetramin flakes and changed the water from distilled to aged tap (treated with blackwater extract). Since, I've noticed the first tads are much larger and 2 out of the 3 have back legs. The temps are alot easier to maintain now that it's getting warmer. I'm not expecting much as they've been in the water way too long but does anyone have any ides on the chances of them morphing out okay? The back legs are looking pretty scrawny. 

Some good news... I've gotten 6 good eggs from my tinc pair over the past two weeks or so. It seems as if they're finally getting the hang of it. I'm going to try adding some java moss.

Jeff


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I don't know if the rumors are true, but I wouldn't be comfortable using NYC water. Walmart sells distilled and spring water for dirt cheap, like 70 cents a gallon. I would expect other large superstores to sell compairable products. I would split your tads up and use two different water sources and see what tads do better. 



> I've noticed the first tads are much larger and 2 out of the 3 have back legs.


Very common. I've got three tads from the same clutch in my setup right now, one with back legs, two without. 

In my gallery in the frogs folder (there's a link to it in my sig), there is a pic of my communal setup with a good description of what's in there.


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

With distilled or RO I would need to add some java moss and/or oak leaves to add minerals, right? I was originally using distilled with blackwater extract but switched to aged tap. 

I think I've got temps and food down but I'm still a little unclear as to getting the best water quality. Mike, that's a good idea to try different water to see which tads do best.

Thanks,

Jeff


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

*UPDATE!*

So after making the changes I mentioned it looks as if these guys might actually be morphing out okay! I didn't have my hopes up as the eggs were laid way back around thanksgiving... but they seem to be doing alright. Here's a pic of the furthest one along. The other two have back legs and are a little larger than this guy.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Congrats.

Seeing that pic confirms that my furthest along tad has SLS.


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

Sorry to hear that, mike. good luck with the rest of them.

j


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## Compi (May 1, 2006)

Stupid question. Whats RO water? Im about to get 4 tricolor tads (hope next wednesday) and am getting info about feeding them and so. I used distilled or whatever you call it water for the viv. Ill fed them with tropical fish food and wonder if i could give them some spirulina, though its in stick. Maybe it isnt good for the water.

Thx in adv.


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)




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