# Newbie Vivarium Setup Questions



## cbau45 (Jun 2, 2009)

Hey all, 

I'm new to dendros and after reading that "top 10 mistakes" thread i've come up with a few more questions of my own. I think I have a pretty decent grasp on how to get started with my first vivarium. My plan is to set up a 60gal cube (24x24x24) for about 5 D. Azureus. My plan is to use eggcrate for the false bottom but how tall should I make the eggcrate structure given that the tank is 24" tall? As for lighting i'm going to retrofit either 2-4 HOT5's into a DIY canopy. What is the proper photo period for the plants? As for filtration my plan was to drill the bottom corner of the tank and have the water filtered through a Marineland C360 canister filter. I'd have the return splt at the top of the tank into 4 tubes, each at 1/4" and use that to create my water feature. This would allow me to have access to my pump (i.e. the canister) and would make for easy cleaning. What is the best thing to use to collect water at the base of your mini waterfall? Do I drill this water basin so it slowly drips into my false bottom? Is that how it's supposed to work?

After keeping a saltwater reef tank for several years I understand the importance of patience and due diligence in regards to research. With that being said could anyone recommend a good magazine to get for dendros and where are the best places to shop online for vivarium supplies? Also are there any people here from Michigan who would know reputable breeders or stores to purchase from? Thanks for any help you can give. I'd like to avoid a lot of pitfalls from the tget go but I realise as newb I'm bound to make a few mistakes. I just hope it doesn't cost me my frogs.

Thanks,
-Craig


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## Ziggi (Jan 23, 2009)

Hi,
And welcome to the addicting world of dendro's.
Your idea sounds great except for one small thing.
5 azureus in a tank that size I would say will have lots of female aggressiveness. You'd be better suited with Leucs or Auratus as a group.
My opinion, others will chime in. Many thumbnail species would enjoy the space as well. Variabilis, Imitator and Ventrimaculatus are great to start with if proper research is done, sounds like you have experience with several elements so no doubt you could handle it.

Eggcrate should be 3-4" imo.
Your idea for filtration and water feature is nice, although it might be over kill.
I don't know of many members who use filtration systems for their water feature. And the water will just go through the substrate down under your false bottom. That's part of the filtration there.

Great start! Great knowledge!
My only thing like said is I wouldn't choose 5 azureus for territorial purposes.



cbau45 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm new to dendros and after reading that "top 10 mistakes" thread i've come up with a few more questions of my own. I think I have a pretty decent grasp on how to get started with my first vivarium. My plan is to set up a 60gal cube (24x24x24) for about 5 D. Azureus. My plan is to use eggcrate for the false bottom but how tall should I make the eggcrate structure given that the tank is 24" tall? As for lighting i'm going to retrofit either 2-4 HOT5's into a DIY canopy. What is the proper photo period for the plants? As for filtration my plan was to drill the bottom corner of the tank and have the water filtered through a Marineland C360 canister filter. I'd have the return splt at the top of the tank into 4 tubes, each at 1/4" and use that to create my water feature. This would allow me to have access to my pump (i.e. the canister) and would make for easy cleaning. What is the best thing to use to collect water at the base of your mini waterfall? Do I drill this water basin so it slowly drips into my false bottom? Is that how it's supposed to work?
> 
> ...


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## cbau45 (Jun 2, 2009)

Ziggi said:


> Hi,
> And welcome to the addicting world of dendro's.
> Your idea sounds great except for one small thing.
> 5 azureus in a tank that size I would say will have lots of female aggressiveness. You'd be better suited with Leucs or Auratus as a group.
> ...


Thank you for the input. I appreciate the advice. Since i'm new to this I don't know all of the compatibility / aggressiveness issues to be aware of yet. I at least know well enough to keep one species only in one tank. I'm just not sure which is the best for me. I really like the blue color of the Azureus but i'm open to the Leucs as well. Anything that will stand out against the green. If a filter is not required for the water feature then i'll just swap the canister filter out for an external pump, that way it is easy to get to. My only reasoning for utilizing a filter was from my research. I found that water quality was important but perhaps that was pertaining to setups that had a significant water portion to their setup.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

the quality of the water you use is definitely important, as it will be misting your frogs, which can absorb substances through their skin, as well as for plants. The further you get in this hobby, the more you will find yourself liking more exotic and interesting plants that respond poorly to poor water quality. distilled, R/O or rain water are good choices generally, although rain water's quality varies by area greatly. Large water features are definitely not necessary, and for your 1st viv I would highly reccomend no moving water feature at all, instead just a pond that both allows you to remove excess water from your setup, as well as let the frogs have a little soak if they want to. I do highly reccomend leucomelas for your frogs. Bold, hardy, and with a great call.
Welcome to the dendroboard


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

frogparty said:


> the quality of the water you use is definitely important, as it will be misting your frogs, which can absorb substances through their skin, as well as for plants. The further you get in this hobby, the more you will find yourself liking more exotic and interesting plants that respond poorly to poor water quality. distilled, R/O or rain water are good choices generally, although rain water's quality varies by area greatly. Large water features are definitely not necessary, and for your 1st viv I would highly reccomend no moving water feature at all, instead just a pond that both allows you to remove excess water from your setup, as well as let the frogs have a little soak if they want to. I do highly reccomend leucomelas for your frogs. Bold, hardy, and with a great call.
> Welcome to the dendroboard


I agree with frogparty 100% here about the water feature..

I am still in the same stages as you, Ive just got my first tank set up and have the intial brom planting complete..

At first I was attracted to the whole water feature trend, but I have now realized it is alot of extra work, that doesnt have any particular benefits to the frogs, the only benefits would be to your eye, as a nice little waterfall is, most of the time very asthetically pleasing.

Im glad I skipped this stage in my tank, saved me a tonne of money, a tonne of work and thinking, and having a 54 gallon tank with 100% ground space leaves me with ALOT of options for my first frogs...

Its not often that dartfrogs inhabit areas high in running water, waterfalls etc usually all that darts have in the way of water is the odd puddle on the forest floor...

If anything id go for that, as its alot simpler and alot more natural rather than a waterfall in my opinion..

All i have gone for in my tank in the way of water feature, is a couple of nut pods, which hold water, looks natural and should any frogs want to have a quick dip, it should more than suffice.

If you want to have a waterfall by all means have it, this is just my opinion....

Good luck mate..

Richie


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## cbau45 (Jun 2, 2009)

frogparty said:


> the quality of the water you use is definitely important, as it will be misting your frogs, which can absorb substances through their skin, as well as for plants. The further you get in this hobby, the more you will find yourself liking more exotic and interesting plants that respond poorly to poor water quality. distilled, R/O or rain water are good choices generally, although rain water's quality varies by area greatly. Large water features are definitely not necessary, and for your 1st viv I would highly reccomend no moving water feature at all, instead just a pond that both allows you to remove excess water from your setup, as well as let the frogs have a little soak if they want to. I do highly reccomend leucomelas for your frogs. Bold, hardy, and with a great call.
> Welcome to the dendroboard


Thank you. I shouldn't have a problem with the source water. I have a 4 stage RO/DI unit that I use now for my reef tank so there's always plenty of clean water around my place. My question is, why not have a moving water feature? Are they hard to maintain? And are there benefits to installing a misting system? I guess I have some thinking/planning to do.


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## cbau45 (Jun 2, 2009)

Wow, this is a great site. I've learned a lot in the past 3 days just by reading all of the stickies and searching for topics rather than posting repeat questions. Unfortunately most people don't bother to look around before posting. The only information I couldn't find in here, and perhaps I haven't looked in the right spot yet, is on plant specifics. I'm looking for something that gives me a detailed list of plant options, light requirements, substrate preferences for each plant, approximate heights, proper placement, etc. Could somebody send me a link to a thread or website that I could read over? Even a good book would work too. I'd like to make a nice display from the get go but I don't want to overcrowd with too many different kinds of plants. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Craig


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Here ya go:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/35324-guide-popular-terrarium-plants.html


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## cbau45 (Jun 2, 2009)

zBrinks said:


> Here ya go:
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/35324-guide-popular-terrarium-plants.html


This is great! Thanks!


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I also noticed you're in Michigan. If you'd like, pm me your email address and name, and I can add you onto the Michigan Dendrobatid Group's email list. We're having our next meeting the last Saturday of this month.


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