# Anyone keeping axolotl?



## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm going to try raising some from eggs I'm getting from Mike Shrom. Corey, I know you have some....

Anyone else here working with these guys?


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

I have one. And it is by far one of the coolest amphibians you can own. And it is very hardy.


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## Abbathx (Aug 15, 2007)

i got some from him and they are just hatching just make sure to have a good food supply ( daphnia or brine shrimp)


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

I've never hatched any but I had one for a couple years that started out at around 1" long from nose to tail tip... they are super neat, I wanted to get one because I was always bummed when my Tiger Salamanders morphed. heh


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> i got some from him and they are just hatching


Under what conditions were you keeping your eggs? Mike's waiting on some new eggs to be laid before I get any from him, so I have a little time to work some things out. I've always found axolotl fascinating, and this would be an interesting way to start working with them, I think.

I'd be also quite interested in hearing people's experiences with these guys. Husbandry information and care sheets are quite easy to locate, a testament to the axolotl's hardiness in captivity!


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## Abbathx (Aug 15, 2007)

keeping them a little warmer as eggs and babies 67-74 deg.


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## boombotty (Oct 12, 2005)

I got some for my wife's classroom a couple years ago and the kids love them. They are very hardy and the kids even feed them worms by hand sometimes.
Scott


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## snow4aaron (Jan 10, 2008)

I have two and they are great. Easy to care for and super cool.


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

Abbathx said:


> keeping them a little warmer as eggs and babies 67-74 deg.


I'm sure they do fine for you at those temps. I try to keep my axolotls under 75F most of the time. My eggs, larvae, and adults are all at about 62F right now. I'm insulating the heat ducts in the basement to try to drop the temps even more for some of the other salamanders. I've had friends that kept axolotls outside or in a garage in the winter. They have had ice on top of the water and the axies did great.

As a rule of thumb I usually advise people to keep axolotls under 70F. I had mine go up to almost 90F in a heat wave before I air conditioned the basement. I did water changes every day, reduced feeding, and had some losses from the heat.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Why does everyone think I keep Axies :shock: I have dwarf waterdogs... they are only related in that both species are caudates :? I took care of some in the lab at school and pet sat one for a friend for a while, but that's it...

Mike - still not sure if the waterdogs are going for the pellets yet. They are loving the cooler temps tho so since they are more active I'm gonna try again. They are developing fungus issues so I gotta figure that out


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Why does everyone think I keep Axies


Thought you had mentioned a long time ago, maybe an older post. No harm done 

I've got 30 axie eggs waiting to hatch, so if you ever want a couple.....


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

Mike - still not sure if the waterdogs are going for the pellets yet. They are loving the cooler temps tho so since they are more active I'm gonna try again. They are developing fungus issues so I gotta figure that out [/quote]

Hi Corey,
Keep a close eye on the salmon pellets. If they don't eat them it can foul the water, mold, and fungus. It seems like the salamanders can get fungus pretty easy from a combination of the water conditions and fungus on the food. I treat most problems except parasites of aquatic salamanders with Furan 2. For fungus only methylene blue will work but does not work on as many causes of the fungus as furan 2. The furan 2 is a good safe shotgun aproach.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Mike - The tank has started to degrade a bit since I haven't been keeping as much of an eye on it as I should have... I've got to move them to the larger 30L anyways so I'm probably going to start from scratch on that tank and move them over (the duckweed was driving me nuts anyways!). Gotta use that nice driftwood I got from you forever ago  I'll start another thread on naturalistic aquatic set ups for aquatic salamanders to continue that topic. I'll have to get into some heavy tank cleaning/water changing and order the furun 2.

As for the eggs... Mike Shrom was one of the very first people I met in the frog hobby, so he's been trying to pawn eggs off on me for years  The waterdogs keep me happy... I like the smaller guys anyways, but I will admit they aren't as personable as Axies... I don't see them much, much less have them eating out of my hand :?


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## lacerta (Aug 27, 2004)

Pet-teez says:


> I've never hatched any but I had one for a couple years that started out at around 1" long from nose to tail tip... they are super neat, I wanted to get one because I was always bummed when my Tiger Salamanders morphed. heh


I'm curious why you would be "bummed" when your tiger salamander morphs? I've never kept any urodels (Caudata) though I have thought about keeping A. tigrinum. Are you bummed because the adults are always hiding?

George


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

If you always wanted a personable aquatic caudate and then it morphs into a terrestrial that hides a lot I can see why you'd be bummed. So short of getting one of the neotenic tigers, might as well get the neotenic used to be way long time ago tigers 

I always wondered... would morphed axies breed like tigers? I've heard next to nothing about the morphed individuals...


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

I am coming to this topic a little late. I keep axies as well. I received a batch of eggs from Mike Shrom a couple of summers ago and had them coming out of my ears. I kept a pair to see what would happen and they have since laid eggs. I said at one time that I'd never raise them again b/c the brine shrimp was such a pain, but I am happy with my system now. Axies are great, I love them, and recommend them highly to anyone interested in amphibians.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

I'd be interested in your rearing setup/s, Dave and Erin! I'm using individual 16 oz deli cups with two-three larvae in each, and being scrupulous about water changes. I had 3-4 hatch out yesterday and I'm waiting for the yolk sacs to be absorbed before I start feeding BBS.


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## donstr (Jun 21, 2007)

They can be started on daphnia, right? I had decided to skip the brine shrimp because I've never really had that much luck with hatching, but I was able to locate some daphnia locally and they've been reproducing at a nice rate.
My eggs haven't hatched, yet. I'm thinking it won't be long.
I was also going to try feeding vinegar eels.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> They can be started on daphnia, right?


I've haven't tried Daphia (I culture pulex) for newly hatched axies, but it might work. I've heard that some might introduce daphnia to the egg container a few days or so before the expected hatching to ensure that there are plenty of very small daphnia available. The larvae won't eat for roughly two days after hatching, while they absorb their yolk sacs. 

Artemia aren't difficult to hatch, as long as the temps are good and the water is vigorously circulated.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The key reason I think BS are used has to do with the mass hatching of them... you can buy hundreds of thousands of eggs and hatch them, and keep them dry until they are ready. It's hard to have enough of the other live foods - which you have to actively culture - for more than just a couple larvae. They are pigs and eat a lot, and can quickly wipe out a Daphnia culture (unless you're raising hundreds of gallons of them or only doing one or two larvae). I know BS has been talked about a lot on caudata.org for larvae so you might want to look up some stuff on that forum as well about it to get tips and set up ideas.

If hatching is a problem, check out the freshness of your eggs, and maybe how you are doing it... but egg freshness is a lot of it. I'd order directly from BS suppliers (like BS direct) for the freshest eggs you can get, which mean higher hatch rates. Stuff available at pet stores and many suppliers are often old and their hatch rate suffers because of it.


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

Mike is by far the MAN when it comes to raising axies. I got about 4 clutches before I got it down right. My last clutch had only 25 or so hatch out from about 200. Corey is right on about removing bad/unfertilized eggs. I use a turkey baster for that job. It is so important. On a side note I have had an interesting view of their development. It's different from dart frogs. I have a few cyclops axies which are not going to make it, but cool none-the-less.

I'll post pics of my setups but again Corey is right on with her suggestion to check out http://www.caudata.org That has beena good resource for me. I have not tried daphnia, so I cannot tell you if they would work or not. Mike told me to do brine shrimp so I do brine shrimp. I'll do some pics of that as well. Don't be afraid to try them out, the axies love em. You can see how well they ate from the pink bellies they get that are the shrimp. Axies have made me a better frog hobbyist. And I recommend them highly, they are a hardy very rewarding animal to work with. I take my hat off to Mike for making them popular. http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com I got the bubbler set up and the can-o-shrimp eggs. They also sell a green plastic mesh trap to harvest the little boogers. GET THAT TOO! PM me with brine shrimp questions, I make them everyday, and am happy with my results.

As far as housing. I have them in plastic shoeboxes and a couple of 10 gallon aquariums. There are about 25 in each. Keep a close eye on them because soon after they get their legs they will start to munch on each other (which is no big deal cause they regenrate them) but I have lost a couple to cannibalism. I get my food from Mike as well. When they get some size, try crumbling up the food pellets into small bits and they take them pretty well.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Caudata also has their own axo resource webpage all about them. Important reading info for those starting with them.

I wouldn't give Mike the credit of making them popular... but after the labs that were breeding them were no longer selling to the public, I'd give Mike the credit of keeping the axo hobby going. Now that he's cut down it should be interesting to see how it goes with no one huge major breeder of them.

I totally agree on how they can make you a better frog keeper... well, if you haven't been into fish at least. I think my fish experiences made me a better frog keeper since I did fish first and I view my waterdogs as a regression 

These guys are SO easy to take care of after they get on pellets. I need to get my waterdogs onto pellets :lol: That attempt just led to my current fungus issue tho...


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Caudata also has their own axo resource webpage all about them. Important reading info for those starting with them.


Oh yeah, I've spent more than a few hours there  

Corey, I definitely agree about having some experience in aquaria/fish. HUGE help when dealing with filtration principles, water chemistry, etc. I had big ol' 75 gallon display of African cichlids going for a number of years when I was in HS, and my dad has it in his care now  Always interesting how easily you can transfer those experiences into frogs or caudates, eh?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

And how little my experiences with reptiles have helped... it's interesting because the PDF hobby developed out of the fish keeping hobby... a lot of people assumed it developed from the herp hobby (since they are herps), but it really didn't. It explains why people coming from the fish hobby seem to do well where people from the reptile hobby tend to have more issues (that and how the fish hobby care wise hasn't been as simplified - mostly because it can't - like a lot of the reptile hobby has). I always call my PDFs a terrestrial fish tank :lol: Especially since PDFs are like trying to keep African Cichlids (which beat the snot out of each other too).


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> And how little my experiences with reptiles have helped... it's interesting because the PDF hobby developed out of the fish keeping hobby...


Makes sense actually, particularly with the proclivity to design and plant elaborate tanks to replicate or at least suggest the natural habitats of the inhabitants. Another interesting connection is that with nano-reef systems (a direction that I am beginning to move into myself)- utilizing natural biological processes to move toward self-sustaining systems (excluding the water change, of course) with biological filtration, etc. So many reptiles can be easily maintained in spartan enclosures adds to the 'simplification' by pet suppliers and retailers (like rack sweaterbox systems for keeping and breeding corns and boids).


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

KeroKero said:


> I always wondered... would morphed axies breed like tigers? I've heard next to nothing about the morphed individuals...


From what I understand most dont live very long.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Since these goobers are illegal in CA not much to comment on except that the tailed amphibs are very underappreciated.

Corey...what do you mean by this hobby came out of the fishkeeping hobby? Is their some kin of written history of the frog/dart hobby out there?


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

I was told that the first dart frogs were imported by Jack Watley a Discus fish breeder.
I am sure that there are other who was the first to start hobby stories, but that was the one that was told to me by some fish guys at IAD.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

This story applies only to the PDF hobby... it's always been off in its own little corner and "different" than the rest of the herp hobby, even from the main "frog" hobby if there is one (very few frogs outside PDFs are bred consistantly even today).

All the stories I've heard involve fish keepers... a fish keeper got some PDFs from a fish importer, gave them a try... showed them to another fish keeper who gave them a try... and I believe that particular person ended up being a very long time major frog keeper  A good number of the first PDF keepers were originally into fish. I still find it entertaining that I also started with fish (got into herps later) and started my PDF career at an aquarium


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> If hatching is a problem, check out the freshness of your eggs, and maybe how you are doing it... but egg freshness is a lot of it. I'd order directly from BS suppliers (like BS direct) for the freshest eggs you can get, which mean higher hatch rates. Stuff available at pet stores and many suppliers are often old and their hatch rate suffers because of it.


Yeah, I HIGHLY recommend BS Direct...used them all the time when I was doing the fish thing  

For hatching BBS, I use one gallon of dechlorinated water and 1/2 cup of aquarium salt. 1/4-1/2 tsp of shrimp eggs and set aside heavily aerated for around 18 hours. Keep an incandescent light on them during the hatch cycle.


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

A while back I promised some photos of my set up, so here goes.








Brine shrimp bubbler.









Collecting brine shrimp. This green tray is invaluable. I could not do axies with it.


















Axies develop their front legs first. I'm not sure if this photo demonstrates that, but I thought it was interesting.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

Two shots of some of my larvae. Golden albino x white albino.


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

Wow those golds are cool. Nice pics.


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