# Very Gravid Female Not Laying Eggs...



## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

My female Terrib Maxine, has been laying batches of five to seven eggs every three weeks or so, for a couple months now. Now she isn't laying any eggs and getting big.

I've upped the humidity to 97 - 99%, misting twice a day, and feeding more to try to mimic a rainy season. 

It's not working. She's usually is very bold, but the last two days hangs out in the back on a leaf not eating. Right now she's in a water dish soaking, which I hope to be a good thing.

The interesting thing is the five males have been silent today. That doesn't happen often, but I wonder if they understand Maxine isn't feeling well.

I know the eggs have to come out for her health. What more can I do to encourage her to lay them?

Maxine's in the middle...


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Maxine looks unhealthily round, to me. None of my mints get that round. Do you have a vet nearby that can take a look at her? Maybe someone else on the board will have a suggestion for how to treat her without going to a vet, but she doesn't look good to me at all and her behavior is not encouraging either. I think a vet would be a better option. 5-7 is a very small clutch size for terribs, in my experience, so you might be onto something about the egg situation, but only a good vet would be able to tell you for sure.

Mark


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

Thanks for the reply Mark

I know a vet on the other side of Houston. About a two hour ride one way. Will try to find a closer one. 

We had a cold front come through and the viv temps have gone from 77 F to 73. Could that have put her off from laying eggs?


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Yes temps up or down can spur breeding activity or be a sign to stop, giving frogs a break from breeding is healthy and should be done by lowering temps, humidity and feeding or just splitting up the 2 sexes. If she is acting normal I would not be worried but dropping temps or humidity can stop breeding, don't be surprised if you get some much bigger clutches once she starts up again.


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

Oh man, just got back from the vet. Maxine isn't gravid, it's bloat. 

Should have posted this in the health thread... 

The vet got air, fluid and a little blood out of her side. The biopsies will take a week to find out if it's bacteria or something else. I'm worried the rest of the males might have gotten whatever she has.

I was given Oral Calcium Suspension in liquid to soak her in every other day.

Also got Carnivore Care to hand feed her. They gave me a tiny syringe to feed it. I don't know the ratio to feed her. If anybody knows how much water and C. Care to mix, I'd appreciate that.

For now she's in a sweater box with paper towels and a dish with distilled water. After three days, her puncture marks will have healed up enough to put a cocohut, leaf litter and plants in to make her feel more comfortable.

Maxine has had a big day today and is resting, staring at the wall as Terribs like to do. Tomorrow starts her new health regime.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry to hear that it was a bigger problem than you thought, Yazz. I am really glad you took the time to get her to the vet (and spent the money), though! I hope she makes a quick recovery. Thanks especially for giving us an update. The more threads like this one that contain pictures and diagnoses, the better the rest of us will be able to decide whether a trip to the vet is warranted.

I wish Maxine luck!

Mark


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Bloat is a tough one to deal with. Sorry to hear about it and best of luck.


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

markpulawski said:


> Yes temps up or down can spur breeding activity or be a sign to stop, giving frogs a break from breeding is healthy and should be done by lowering temps, humidity and feeding or just splitting up the 2 sexes. If she is acting normal I would not be worried but dropping temps or humidity can stop breeding, don't be surprised if you get some much bigger clutches once she starts up again.


Mark, Iv'e been pondering the info you gave. The room Maxine's in now is back up to 77 f. She's in a plastic sweater box with paper towels right now, but she isn't crouched like she used to. I think she likes the time away from the males. 

The viv the Terribs originally came in was being turned into an orchid tank, but it will be made with Maxine in mind so she can have a break. 

Thank you for helping me...


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

Encyclia and oldlady25715, Thank you for the well wishes for Maxine. 

The Amphibian Ringers Solution should be delivered Monday. 

I put some Oral Calcium Suspension in her water dish today and she was in it for five hours. She wouldn't get out, so I had to remove the dish from her box. Was worried about Terribs getting foot rot from being wet too long.

Her back is starting to show now. Don't know if the bloat is going away or she's getting skinny. 

When the lab results get back, hoping it will be some medicine to put on her back. If something more complicated, there are two highly regarded exotic vet places around us.

I'm hard-headed and don't give up easily...


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

Maxine has passed on...

Maybe it was her not feeling well and the stress of going to the vet and getting poked and prodded. Maybe it was the stress of being in a sterile sweater box. So many maybes, including me not recognizing something was wrong earlier.

Wish I could go back in time and do things different. But I can't, only learn from the experience and move forward. 

I have to take care of Maxine's five Cabana Boys now. She will have a necropsy done and see what the original test results from her samples show. Whatever caused her demise, I don't want her tank mates sharing the same fate.

Thanks for putting up with my blathering. I'm really sad right now...


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## shaungilhousen (Nov 30, 2014)

I’m sorry about your loss!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah, sorry to hear it, Yazz.

Mark


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

I'm sorry you lost her. Good for you for getting her to the vet and doing your best for her, regardless.


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

Bonding vs. Habit...

The Terrib viv is in my computer room. It's hard to tell one yellow frog from another, but over the year I've had them, I've learned to tell the difference between them through their behaviors. One likes to climb the glass, one likes to tunnel, and one has figured out I am the feeder of flies.

The first one to call is named Elvis, the alpha male. He has always been the biggest and brightest yellow. There was always a smaller bright yellow frog hanging around him. Figured out all were calling but the Elvis fan, she was named Maxine.

They had a night-time ritual. After the viv lights go out, all the frogs disappear but two. Elvis and Maxine. Elvis will be on a cork log and Maxine would be by a cocohut. After the house lights were off, who knew where they went, but I bet they were together.

Look up at the original picture, Maxine in the middle and Elvis is to her right. He was near her till I took her out for the vet check. 

Elvis still waits on the cork log after the viv lights go out. My heart breaks...


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

The necropsy report came back...

Lab Findings
Histopathology

(frog) - Amphibian - Ranidae - Frog - 2 Years
Fixed tissues - 3Necropsy (Light Microscopy - NEC-TISSUE <8)12/21/2017*****12/21/20171 14 24/5
DESCRIPTION:
TONGUE, EYE, BRAIN, SPINAL CORD, STOMACH, HEART, SPLEEN, KIDNEY, INTESTINE, LIVER, OVARY, LUNG, SKIN, LIMB: No significant findings HISTOPATHOLOGIC DIAGNOSIS
Open 

COMMENTS The cause of death in this case is not apparent readily. Despite thorough examination of the tissues histologically and grossly, there are no lesions to indicate the demise of this animal. In cases such as this, when there is no evidence of an infectious cause, husbandry must be evaluated to identify potential gaps in optimal husbandry (i.e. the working condition of the lights, water quality, temperatures, etc).

Texas A&M Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Laboratory
483 Agronomy RoadCollege Station TX 77840

NecropsySpecimenTest NamePathologist (frog) - Amphibian - Ranidae - Frog - 2 YearsDead animal - 1Necropsy (Necropsy - AVIAN/REPT/AMPH)

External Exam:
An 8 gram female yellow dart frog is presented for necropsy.
Respiratory System:No significant lesions observed (NSLO).
Circulatory System:NSLO
Digestive System:Approximately 1-2 ml of clear fluid in the coelom.
Urogenital System:NSLO
Lymphatic System:NSLO
Endocrine System:NSLO
Musculoskeletal System:NSLO
Ear/Eye, Special Senses:NSLO
Nervous System:NSLO 
Necropsy Diagnosis
Open

*******

Name and phone numbers were edited out.


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

The viv is a 65 gallon, 17"d by 24"w x 36"h Exo-Terra laid on it's back with support under the bottom glass. As y'all can tell from the picture at the top there is open space, two cocohuts and lots of hiding places too.

Do you think the ratio of one female to five loud males might have stressed her out?


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## Yazz (Oct 30, 2016)

Just got a phone call from the vet for the bacterial cultures results...

She had large amounts of aeromonas, citrobacter freundii, and lactobacillus.

Being new to the dart frog world, I have no clue if the above bacteria are common in pdfs, or if the rest of the Terribs are safe.

Will do some more Googling tomorrow...


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