# Should i seed with different breeds of isos?



## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

I can get dwarf white, dwarf purples, and zebras. Should i seed 25 whites, 15 purple, and 10 zebras? No frogs are in the viv now. It will be April before i add anything. Also what should I feed them till the viv is all the way established


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## Lovelyk (Feb 7, 2021)

I’m thinking maybe just stick to the dwarf isopods. It’s fine if you stick to just one type, but I’ve been told that it doesn’t matter really if you mix purple and white dwarfs.


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## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

I have dwarf whites and I think they will eat the decaying matter in the viv. I actually have a small peice of cardboard that they seemed to enjoy too. 

I'm not sure but, I think you can put in a bit of carrot or other vegetable matter. (If this is not true please correct me).

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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

You could feed them (carrots should be fine, leaves are great, I feed Repashy Morning Wood) but wouldn't need to.

I don't know if the zebras are a great idea in a viv. @fishingguy12345 ?

BTW, isopods are categorized by species (e.g. _Porcellionides pruinosus_), and there are morphs within those species (e.g. "Powder Orange"). There are no breeds of isopods -- that's how we categorize selectively bred domestic animals such as dogs and chickens.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

The only Isopods I would put in with my dart frogs are dwarf white, dwarf purple, or other dwarf species. The other ones risk danger to the frogs and most other commonly available species don't thrive in the humid conditions that we keep our dart frogs in. 

Zebras (_Armadillidium maculatum_), in particular are not a great day frog vivarium choice, in my opinion, they get large relative to the frogs, are prolific, and tend to like drier conditions than frog tanks. That said, I had a could get into my terrarium plant tank, that I keep in conditions just like a frog vivarium, and they are thriving there...(they unfortunately got transferred to the tank by accident and have shown an ability to thrive even without any external food source)


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

fishingguy12345 said:


> The only Isopods I would put in with my dart frogs are dwarf white, dwarf purple, or other dwarf species. The other ones risk danger to the frogs.


This is a generally untrue fear/myth that tends to be perpetuated without strong evidence. I have kept "giant orange" (P. scaber) with my frogs for over a decade, with no issues whatsoever.

GENERALLY, you'd want to add isopods to your viv to act as a CUC (clean up crew). That is, to clean up waste such as dead flies, calcium dust, and frog poop. All the "dwarf" species do is decompose your expensive substrate -- they almost never venture up above to the leaf litter where the waste is. This has been my experience with "dwarf white" isopods, at least.

Soooo if you want janitors to clean up waste, go for a "larger" species like P. pruinosus or P. scaber. If you want to transform a well-aerated substrate like ABG into a dense "soil", then go with dwarf isos. Keep in mind, you'll only need a few large isos per frog in your viv (say, 3-6).


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

hypostatic said:


> This is a generally untrue fear/myth that tends to be perpetuated without strong evidence. I have kept "giant orange" (P. scaber) with my frogs for over a decade, with no issues whatsoever.
> 
> GENERALLY, you'd want to add isopods to your viv to act as a CUC (clean up crew). That is, to clean up waste such as dead flies, calcium dust, and frog poop. All the "dwarf" species do is decompose your expensive substrate -- they almost never venture up above to the leaf litter where the waste is. This has been my experience with "dwarf white" isopods, at least.
> 
> Soooo if you want janitors to clean up waste, go for a "larger" species like P. pruinosus or P. scaber. If you want to transform a well-aerated substrate like ABG into a dense "soil", then go with dwarf isos. Keep in mind, you'll only need a few large isos per frog in your viv (say, 3-6).


I broady agree about the risk of isopods attacking frogs being minimal but I don't doubt that larger species would opportunistically prey on a frog that was already sick or dying. In my experience they're very happy to eat raw meat if given the opportunity and larger species absolutely do actively prey on other insects slow enough for them to catch if they're craving protein. They can even attack much larger arthropod species that are vulnerable after moulting when circumstances permit.

I use dwarf purples, P. pruinosus and Trichoniscus pusillus in my gecko tanks. These three species seem to occupy slightly different environmental and dietary niches and are able to cooexist in large enough tanks without one species taking over. 
The very best microfauna for actual clean up purposes in my experience is slugs. If you're lucky and can find one of the many small species that wont tend to attack healthy plants, they absolutely hoover up feaces and dead feeders in no time at all.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I kept _P. pruinosus_ with my crested geckos for a while (couple years) and based on that experience I would not put them in any of my dart vivs. They eat leaf litter (which I don't want eaten, really) much faster than dwarf isos, are much more active above the surface (whether that can stress out frogs in our tiny vivs I do not know), and I don't notice any frog poop, dead flies, etc in my frog vivs that needs dealing with (yes, there is poop on the glass and brom leaves, but I don't think isos will get that, and I can dislodge it with water fairly easily). 

Just $0.02 from a pretty conservative keeper.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I kept _P. pruinosus_ with my crested geckos for a while (couple years) and based on that experience I would not put them in any of my dart vivs. *They eat leaf litter* (which I don't want eaten, really) much faster than dwarf isos, are much more active above the surface (whether that can stress out frogs in our tiny vivs I do not know), and I don't notice any frog poop, dead flies, etc in my frog vivs that needs dealing with (yes, there is poop on the glass and brom leaves, but I don't think isos will get that, and I can dislodge it with water fairly easily).
> 
> Just $0.02 from a pretty conservative keeper.


I wouldn't keep P. pruinosus with smaller frogs for some of the above reasons; they get introduced into the terribilis tanks via escapees from feedings, but they either get decimated or the population such as it is, remains in stealth mode to avoid predation. I haven't dug under the leaf litter to take a census. I do know that once in a blue moon I see one getting picked off, either because it was caught on an elevated vine or a frog heard it moving near the surface and dives under the litter.

It's obviously a case-by-case thing, not every frog is a terribilis. I'd be especially vexed if I had isopods chewing up my leaf litter. I use a lot of it and it's one of my larger consumable expenses as it is.

Truth is I've always had some kind of invertebrate population in my vivaria, either stuff that came in on plants or that wasn't exterminated by hungry frogs, but I've always seen them as incidental.

Returning to the hobby at the height of the 'bioactive' (LOL) craze I'm still not entirely convinced by the idea of a 'clean-up crew' but I'm willing to be proven wrong. I've considered introducing some C. murina on purpose to see what/how they do, but haven't got around to it yet as my colony only just started booming. From what I've seen I don't think they'd disturb my leucomelas, to be honest...and it'd be pointless putting them in a terribilis tank because they'd get turned into snacks.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh another note from experience is that zebras (A. maculatum) don't seem to thrive in PDF vivs. I believe it's because the humidity is too high. I think I've heard that A. vulgare fares much better.


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