# milky looking eye.



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

hey all something i havent seen before.... one of my man creek females has one cloudy looking eye and the other looks normal. i guess it could have possibly been the way i was looking at it or an eyelid, but could it have been part of her shedding? i just have never witnessed anything like it and want to know more. any ideas? it wasnt white just kind of dark grey instead of black.

thanks
james


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Probably not a good thing I had similar and the frog went blind and eventually died. Tried treating with baytril but probably too late.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i would post a pic first of all as well as send over a pic to dr.frye asap or a qualified vet. he just replied to one of my emails(nice of him since he is off right now from his duties at work), so he may be still up. otherwise in my opinion wait it out till monday for his email. kristy


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

she seems in good health otherwise and infact she has been much more bold in the last few days., her color has also appeared much brighter today (leading me to think it is not anything serious, and possibly shedding)


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

IMO bud. its best to be safe than sorry. do ya got a pic? might help and we on the board might be able to say it needs to be referred to a vet or is just shedding. kristy


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i should add that i just took a look in the tank and she is right up in the front snatching up tons of springtails but she wont turn to let me see. this is only the 6th or 7th time i have ever actually witnessed her eat so i assume she is doing pretty good at least in that respect. no problems eating or catching food....

no camera


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

never actually witnessed any of my frogs ever shedding, so i wouldnt know but i'll try to post pics later if i can find a camera

ok so she turned in that direction and there is some definate cloudyness but she doesnt seem bothered.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

ok....anyhow....an email wouldnt hurt to get an opinion to a vet and say you dont have a camera just to get a more qualified opinion. kristy


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

yea i agree. any suggestions on vets and how to get in touch???


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

it is just SLIGHTLY a more cloudy blue than the other eye (which looks normal and healthy)


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

ok.....here is dr. fryes email though i'm sure its all over the board 
[email protected]
kristy


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

With this issue you have a 50/50 chance with saving the frog. If it is healthy, it might recover itself. I have tried a few other meds (usually fish meds) with some success - but baytril is usually the most common.



rmelancon said:


> Probably not a good thing I had similar and the frog went blind and eventually died. Tried treating with baytril but probably too late.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I believe that I used teramiacin on a red eyed tree frog about 10 years ago that had a cloudy eye. It took about a week and cleared up and the frog was fine. I can't remember for sure that it was teramiacin, but that sounds right.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Teramiacin was the fish med I was trying to think of...thanks.



jubjub47 said:


> I believe that I used teramiacin on a red eyed tree frog about 10 years ago that had a cloudy eye. It took about a week and cleared up and the frog was fine. I can't remember for sure that it was teramiacin, but that sounds right.


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

James, 

I just had a passing thought; do you by chance feed pinheads? If so how often? The reason I ask is some frog species have a susceptibility to developing a condition called *Corneal lipidosis* which is when cholesterol crystals and lipid vacuoles begin to accumulate in the corneal stroma, causing a clouding around the base of the eye that will often spread throughout the rest of the eye. It has been speculated the feeding frogs a uniform/consistently high-fat diet can cause this condition. In general crickets are about 69% moisture, 21% protein, 6.01% fat, so one could speculate that even 1-day to 1-week old pinheads could have at least somewhere around 3% fat content. As for treatment all one could think to do in this instance is cut back to an occasional meal of pinheads and stick mainly to fruit flies which are much lower in fat content. But as I stated above if you don’t feed pinheads then disregards this information in this instance. That what I have got, take care.

Best of Luck,


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

widmad 27: it could be high fat content.... no pinheads but she has been disregarding the melos lately since the tank has exploded with springtails. is this a serious condition?

to melissa68 & jubjub47: how were the meds administered? and baytril or teramiacin?
teramiacin i assume is available at the lfs but where do i acquire baytril?

thank you all for the help on short notice
james


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

Not terminal, just inconvenient for the frog. But there is always a chance of secondary infection that can come about, but I wouldn't worry about it.

Best of luck and keep us posted,


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thank you. in all honesty she seems more active now than she has before. again i have never experienced anything like this and i will contact the DVM as soon as i get a picture.

i will keep posting on this until it is resolved

james


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Your probably going to have to get baytril from a vet. As for teramiacin, I just mixed up a small dose and sprayed the frog. It's only good for one treatment so you can't make a big batch of it. I'm by no means a vet though so I would contact a vet that may specialize in amphibs ie. Dr Frye and get their opinion first.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

james: i think you should in my own opionion only treat and get things such as baytril from a qualified DVM like stated above and any advice on how to treat and the protocol for treating. . I gave you the email to the one that i know of and have full confidence in. i know in my area there are no other vets that will assess this kind of problem. I hope you sent out an email already to a qualified DVM, whomever it may be. kristy


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

kirsty: we seem to have simmilar ideas about the care and treatment of our animals, (ie. the germaphobia and feeling of responsibillity to the animals not to ones own pleasure) i have already e-mailed Dr. Frye and am waiting on a response. i will not treat until i have the opinion of a qualified professional. 

thanks

james


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

thats sounds like a good plan and i hope the feller makes it ok. once we notice things like this, i think it is best IMO to seek attention asap from a qualified DVM and do the treatment plan as prescibed to a T. if you notice my mint terribillis thread in this section on last page, you'll see how i was able to turn around my mint from near death to perfecto and that was because i waited(had to) dr. was out of the office for a response...not dr.'s fault, and did the treatment right away. I would also suggest having a froggy-first aid kit from a DVM , that way you may already have the meds on hand and if prescribed to use, they can be used as quick as possible once approved. kristy


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

just looked at her very closely and the eye looks worse. it protrudes and seems to have a gelatenous coating on it. the other eye is again still quite normal looking. there seems to possibly be some fluid inthe eye. i decided to put her in a quarintine (where i can more closely moniter her) but she is still very quick and there are areas of the viv i can not get to, of course she headed immediately to that area so i will try to catch her later.

i have a very bad feeling about this but im hoping that she will pull through, perhaps with the loss of an eye.

james


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

dont lose faith. one day till the doc is officially in. i had to wait a day as well. well two cuz i didnt sleep so good and had my days messed up .....but its really all you can do at this point in my opinion. sounds like an infection, but i dont know. i;m not the vet. let me know updates tomorrow and see what happens. kristy


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## MrGerbik (Dec 18, 2006)

Had the same thing happen to an azureus of mine. The eye got bulgy too and filmy. It actually cleared up on its own. but like others said. a vet is better safe then sorry


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

havent quite lost faith (i would if she seemed worse for it but other than the eye she seems fine) i will wait and i hope that it starts to clear up on its own but only time will tell.

james


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

widmad27 said:


> James,
> 
> I just had a passing thought; do you by chance feed pinheads? If so how often? The reason I ask is some frog species have a susceptibility to developing a condition called *Corneal lipidosis* which is when cholesterol crystals and lipid vacuoles begin to accumulate in the corneal stroma, causing a clouding around the base of the eye that will often spread throughout the rest of the eye. It has been speculated the feeding frogs a uniform/consistently high-fat diet can cause this condition. In general crickets are about 69% moisture, 21% protein, 6.01% fat, so one could speculate that even 1-day to 1-week old pinheads could have at least somewhere around 3% fat content. As for treatment all one could think to do in this instance is cut back to an occasional meal of pinheads and stick mainly to fruit flies which are much lower in fat content. But as I stated above if you don’t feed pinheads then disregards this information in this instance. That what I have got, take care.
> 
> Best of Luck,


The appearance of corneal lipidosis has been tentatively linked to the fatty acid like linoleic acid levels in commercially fed feeders but to my knowledge has not been shown to be the actual problem as there are other confounding factors such as the appearance of this in mainly female anurans that have not been allowed to breed. There is speculation that the problem is at least in part due to the sequestering and mobilization of fats for reproduction but the caloric expenditure that accompanies reproduction then does not occur resulting in very high levels of circulating fats in the blood stream which then ends up being deposited elsewhere in the body such as on the eyes of the frogs. In over 15 years of feeding crickets as the sole or main food source for anurans at work, with a couple of notable exceptions, I have yet to see this occur in anything other than a female hylid (the exceptions were several horned frogs, two L. pentadactylus and a couple of N. A, bullfrogs that had been fed rodents 2-3x a week (in otherwords they were fed pinks/fuzzies at the same rate as crickets due to the similar body size of the feeders but this occured more than 16 years ago before a lot of this understanding was out there...). 

There are a lot of other potential reasons for cloudy eye(s) which can range from a infection to cataracts to damage. In reality, the eye needs to be examined by a vet to see if there is damage to the eye and to see where the cloudiness in the eye is actually occuring as this will give a clue as to what is causing it as well as prescribing an appropriate treatment (if one is needed) . 

Ed


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

well she is still alive and very active, i pulled her from her tank and put her in a temp. enclosure that i had so that she can be more easily checked for signs of improvement or so any signs of deterioration in her health. and if required meds can be more easily administered.

i got a camera today but i cant figure out how to get the macro shot clear. as soon as this is dealt with the pictures will be sent to the DVM and i will follow all advised procedures.

James


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

the eye looks much better today and i also decided to start a treatment regimen with neo poly dex. i have hope that all will be well.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

I'm treating as per DVM orders and there is improvement. although i hate having to stress her while trying to catch her so that I can administer the drops. still very active


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