# Froglet with three arms????



## Mikembo (Jan 26, 2009)

Thought I would share the newly morphed out froglet, at first I thought the little guy had a stick stuck to it but at further inspection it has an extra arm!!! 

If I recall correctly, SLS can cause tads to developing extra limbs......?










-Mike-


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

Nice looking froglet though. That is too sad that it probably has sls. That front limb looks lifeless. Thanks for sharing Mike.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I do believe sls can cause extra limbs. Poor thing. Does he have any use of his two main arms!


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## Mikembo (Jan 26, 2009)

I should have mention that the main two arms are fully functional.

-Mike-


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Well Usually I euthanize froglets with sls. But if the two good arms are fully functional and he can eat fine, I would think you can keep him alive.


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## Dendrobatid (May 6, 2010)

The other front limbs look sturdy though. When I worked at Zoo New England back in the mid 90's they had a male D. auratus that had a extra front limb. The extra one stuck out to the side and he didn't seem to be able to use it. He was perfectly healthy otherwise and actually sired all the tads that they had while I was there.

Jim


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Cull it off, Its honestly the best thing to do. No one needs that genetic flaw bred back into the lines. Handing it off or selling it would not guarantee its not bred.

Michael


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Mike,

There is no reason to consider euthanizing the froglet if it can get around and feed normally. If we went around killing everyone who has an extra finger or toe, where would we be?

Good luck with it, Richard.


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

poison beauties said:


> Cull it off, Its honestly the best thing to do. No one needs that genetic flaw bred back into the lines. Handing it off or selling it would not guarantee its not bred.
> 
> Michael


That sounds pretty harsh. If the little guy can eat and walk around just fine, why do why should he be culled? Just because he is not perfect doesn't mean he should lose his life. I wonder if you feel the same way about people who have mental or physical disabilities? Should we not keep them alive either? Just a thought.


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## Dendrobatid (May 6, 2010)

poison beauties said:


> Cull it off, Its honestly the best thing to do. No one needs that genetic flaw bred back into the lines. Handing it off or selling it would not guarantee its not bred.
> 
> Michael


How would you know that this is a genetic predisposition? What if it's environmental in origin. There is absolutely no reason to euthanize this animal. This is a quality of life issue, if the individual animal is able to thrive then why euthanize it. It's this persons right to make the decision that they feel most comfortable with.


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## Mikembo (Jan 26, 2009)

Don't want this thread to become a debate just wanted to share and to find out if this Is just a case of SLS, environment, or is it a genetic default? I've had hundreds of tadpoles morph out just fine from this pair! I know there are probably many factors that can play in this situation but what is more likely? 

what I choose to do with this frog will be at my discretion thanks for the inputs!

-Mike-


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

It looks to be only hanging on by a small amount of skin. Is there a possibility of removing it, or of it falling off over time? Not sure if there are vets who can remove something like this.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> There is no reason to consider euthanizing the froglet if it can get around and feed normally. If we went around killing everyone who has an extra finger or toe, where would we be?
> 
> Good luck with it, Richard.





Redhead87xc said:


> That sounds pretty harsh. If the little guy can eat and walk around just fine, why do why should he be culled? Just because he is not perfect doesn't mean he should lose his life. I wonder if you feel the same way about people who have mental or physical disabilities? Should we not keep them alive either? Just a thought.





Dendrobatid said:


> How would you know that this is a genetic predisposition? What if it's environmental in origin. There is absolutely no reason to euthanize this animal. This is a quality of life issue, if the individual animal is able to thrive then why euthanize it. It's this persons right to make the decision that they feel most comfortable with.



Ok before I get all scientific, then irritated and likely banned again just answer this......

Would you buy offspring from that frog? Think about it there are quite a few lines of them, plenty of related lines to as Mike said he has produced a couple hundred healthy ones. 
We are not talking about just killing off anything a healthy frog, its a deformed frog! Like it or not, environmentally caused or sls its genetics are not something that will benefit the advancement of this hobby as keeping strong lines, locales and well tracked blood in the hobby is what we need. Many people will make the froglet's prove their strength by climbing straight up out of the cup, Ive heard you guys say that is wrong as well. I wont argue the sneaker or weaker male scenario either as this doesnt need to be done in this case. Its not a rare frog, keeping it around can only weaken that line.

I swore I was finished with the boards.

Michael


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## Zombie Frawg (Aug 31, 2010)

I don't see a reason to euthanize it if it is able to eat and get around. After all, not every frog in the hobby is purchased or kept to be bred. I have several disabled frogs that I don't intend to breed but I enjoy them the same as my "normal" frogs.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Not every person just sits around and houses their deformed or genetically altered frogs singly in vvs. They are handed out, sold and eventually will get bred back in by someone desperate to make a buck or in need of a male or female no matter the issue.

Michael


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with Grimm, Mike. Perhaps you can find a local vet that can perform the surgery without too great an expense.

I don't know if the issue is genetic or environmental, but I'm sure we can find some references that will answer the question (the name ED comes to mind!)

Take care, Richard.



GRIMM said:


> It looks to be only hanging on by a small amount of skin. Is there a possibility of removing it, or of it falling off over time? Not sure if there are vets who can remove something like this.


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## Zombie Frawg (Aug 31, 2010)

poison beauties said:


> Not every person just sits around and houses their deformed or genetically altered frogs singly in vvs. They are handed out, sold and eventually will get bred back in by someone desperate to make a buck or in need of a male or female no matter the issue.
> 
> Michael


Wow. Since I am just "sitting around my house" with my deformed frogs I'll say this - I hope you never have a child with a disability since I fear it would be ostracized, or worse, euthanized by you. Would you euthanize a dog born with no front legs? Or a cat with a kinked tail? At least I know there are others out there who would not just kill something disabled because it "may" breed. 

To the OP - what ever you decide to do with the little one is, as you said, at your discretion. Best of luck!


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Zombie Frawg said:


> Wow. Since I am just "sitting around my house" with my deformed frogs I'll say this - I hope you never have a child with a disability since I fear it would be ostracized, or worse, euthanized by you. Would you euthanize a dog born with no front legs? Or a cat with a kinked tail? At least I know there are others out there who would not just kill something disabled because it "may" breed.
> 
> To the OP - what ever you decide to do with the little one is, as you said, at your discretion. Best of luck!


LOL....Dude talk about over the top with the BS....Put the coffee down.

If you plan on keeping it then look for a vet and have the extra limb removed and don't breed it just incase it is a genetic defect.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Im out, you people are the same ones who would take in hybrids and sls sufferers so there is no use in posting anything. It is Mikes choice and it is not a child, it is one of hundreds of frogs from the same pair. 

Like I asked before would you buy this frogs froglet's or ones from a seemingly normal healthy one?
Throw out opinions and tell me I kill dogs, cats, children or whatever but your still the one who left the answer and your own opinions on the matter private.

Ed and I have gone through this before as well even with the genetically weak frogs or runts to the sneaker male issues and beyond. One think I'm sure of is that no one that had the option to use a healthy normal frog would ever consider that frog to be a needed asset for any reason. If you can say for certain it will never be put in a breeding viv or mixed with other 3 armed frogs of other species good for you but many in the hobby wouldn't risk it.

Michael


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## MountaineerLegion (Apr 8, 2008)

I think it's unjust to euthanize any frog...even if it has sls. Does any frog want or deserve to die just because we couldn't get them reared properly? 

If we weren't so greedy with our time we could hand feed sick frogs right? The OP, if he were't such a selfish boob, could sell off the rest of his collection so that he could pay a vet to operate on this little fella. Then he could quit his job so that he had the time to convalesce him back to health; but he won't because he just doesn't respect ALL life like us.

I'll bet if we weren't so cheap and would invest the money we could develop little prosthetic legs for them. With enough time we might even be able to teach them to hop again, probably not jump, but maybe hop.

Good grief folks...we raise fruit flies so that we can then sentence them to a horrible death in the sticky mouth of a frog. What about their lives? We imprison our frogs in little tiny tanks just for our viewing pleasure.

I think this "high road" we argue should be taken is paved with countless acts of hypocrisy.


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