# I may be losing one of my Teribilis, advice please?



## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

I have 3 Teribilis and they are approx 9 months old.

Last night I noticed one of my Teribilis leaning to the side on it's elbow, when it tried to move its movement was all twisted. I got it out of the tank right away and called a local breeder friend of mine, he unfortunately did not have much time to speak and told me that sometimes Teribilis can develop raw feet if the ground is too wet. 

After a few minutes of being isolated the behavior stopped and the frog moved fully normal. 

I contacted Dr. Frye for a second opinion on what I was told and he was concerned right away about metabolic disease and asked if their supplements contain calcium. I replied with a link to a breakdown of the supplement I am using (which is Herpetal Amphib, many breeders use it here).

The temperature in their tank is 24C and humidty at the time of this incident was 87%. The tank is sprayed by a misting system which runs 2 times a day for one minute and does not appear to be 'too wet' and looks just right. Supplements are used at every feeding, which is done 3 times a week once daily on Mon, Weds and Friday.

Fecals on them have always come back clean and were done 4 times since getting them.

I replied to Dr.Frye short before he closed for the day and he is not yet in and I just now replied again to him because the frog was once again acting weirdly. 

It ate fine this morning, but seems to keep having these weird spells where it cannot move correctly.

I am really worried.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

how often are you dusting with calcium?


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

3 times a week at every feeding, which is done once daily. Two weeks ago I was feeding them 4 times a week.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

is your calcium old?


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Julio said:


> is your calcium old?


The supplements are about to reach 5 months at the end of March.

If I start giving newer supplements right away can I reverse what is happening or is it too late?


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## CHuempfner (Apr 27, 2008)

I would at least try updating your supplements. Even if the date on the jar says it's not expired and you opened it 5 months ago, the vitamins can break down more rapidly if they are exposed to heat/light. Does he do like a weird flipping movement? Or does he just look clumsy? Does he ever spasm?

If he is still eating, that's a positive sign. Keep us posted, please! I would like to hear what Dr. Frye thinks it might be.

Good luck!


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

hexentanz said:


> 3 times a week at every feeding, which is done once daily. Two weeks ago I was feeding them 4 times a week.


 Until you get a reply from Dr. Frye with something more definitive, I'd go back to feeding 4 times a week and see if the problem is corrected.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I`d get a couple human grade calc w/d3 and break them up and start dusting w/ only that. Your vit and min supps should always be seperate or the min and vit will react w/ each other and w/ oxygen to degrade the vits. I think most calc probs are w/ d3 going bad and it`s like your dusting w/ calcium w/out d3. I`d use a uv lite if one`s handy right away. I had a female escudo sieze and gave her a pin drop of d3 on her back and her colors improved, she never siezed even when startled and laid a clutch of 8 the next week after shutting down for a couple months.
Oh and the feet thing is wrong. there may be a bacteria that does that but I`ve had my breeder terribilis on soggy ground for months. It could also be the acidity of peat or the bacteria is found in peat, which I don`t use. My humidity in terr tanks is always around 100 and they are always on soggy substrate.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

I've gone out and gotten new supplements. 

CHuempfner's - Ya know how in physical ed they showed you that movement with your arms kind of like a propeller? This is what the frog does, with its arms and legs during these fits. It will be leaning one moment and then it wants to move forward and it flails its arms and legs forward in a propeller like motion and throws itself forward. After doing this it stays still for a bit and then it is totally fine. 

It is still eating and I got it to eat some flies dusted with the new supplements when I got home. Tongue movement , jaw all appear normal.

Still waiting to hear back from Dr.Frye but, he did not get back to me last night until a little later in the day.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

My husband had a pretty interesting thought. When I was setting up all of the frogs tanks I added some springtails and out of all the frogs the Teribilis are the only ones who do not eat them so there is hoards of springtails in their vivarium. Is it possible that this fella is bothered by the high springtail count in the vivarium?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

No, what your referring to is seizures, most likely caused by lack of calcium or d3.


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## wutc1030 (Mar 14, 2007)

I have the same situation with my 5 bicolor last year. They can eat at first. But the cramping got servere and longer. They are all dead one-by-one, finally. All the treatment i done was all in vain. I use menbandazole, itraconazole, metronodazole. And i change my Ca-supplement. But their condition just got worse. 
My other frogs(Tincs, vents) were all heathly with the same keeping way. But only bicolors suffered this cramping symptome.
The only one thing i can thick was i have sweeping some small fly/bugs from outside(school field) for my bicolors. Maybe had some toxin on small fly/bugs and let my bicolor sick.
So l want to ask: are your teribilis only eating fluitfly or eat something else?


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Just wanted to come and say that there were no episodes today that I could see. 

Also I looked at my previous container of supplements today there was not even an expiration date on the container. :/


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Well guys, I do not think it has anything to do with the supplements at all.  I noticed last night that the little guy looks skinnier than his siblings so this morning i captured him and got a good look at his feet and found something similar to this http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/37650-foot-rot.html on its hind leg near the foot. It is not bumpy like on that picture but looks like the rawness my friend described. 

Since noticing the problem originally not only did i acquire new supplements but I added in some slate pieces at the advice of my friend, so they have something dry to sit on.


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