# Microsorum thailandicum propagation



## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey guys, Ive been doing a bit of reading on the interwebs about fern propagation. the reason being i have two plants of Microsorum thailandicum and well i have been noticing less and less places to get them online.. so i want to start some new plants just in case the ones ive got die. the other reason is i am building an open style panther chameleon enclosure and have several places these ferns would look great in. 

so heres what Ive picked up as far as starting from spore. any tips or tweaks to this method would help greatly, as last time i tried to grow the spores nothing happened and it took months to fill back in on the undersides of the frond before i had enough spores to try again

- dry the spores and separate from fronds 
- screen peat moss-based potting soil (or just mix screened peatmoss and sand), to get out long fibers and chunks. 
- pour boiling water through the soil mix (I skip this step when I use pre-pasteurized potting soils). 
- drain and cool soil mix 
- make a flat thin layer (1-2cm deep) of the mix in a shallow container. 
- sprinkle the spores thinly over the surface, and mist lightly with clean water. 
- close the container with a clear plastic lid, or it can be covered with clear food wrap. 
- place somewhere that gets bright light but not direct sun. 
- keep moist, and wait.

would this method work for thailandicum? and how long do i need to dry the spores for?



oh and does anyone know where i could get ether of these two plants?
Elaphoglossum metalicum 
Elaph.oglossum herminieri 

Thanks in advance


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Google wasn't very forth coming. If you can get some established feel free to send me a few 

Have you tried www.rareferns.com ?


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

I totally forgot about that site.. cooooooool..... i shall give them a try. i really hope they have some Elaphoglossum metalicum available.. looks sturdy enough a wandering Furcifer pardalis wont break it, becides just being awesome. 

AND... i bet Hyalinobatrachium valerioi would love it...

i was also told one can use moist paper towels instead of peat or sphagnum... is this true?



oh and D3monic, if i do get any growing i will gladly send some over.. i have no idea how long it will take to get to a shippable size though.. the plants i have really have only grown about an inch or two in 4 years or more  i guess frog poo isn't the preferred fertilizer


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Link3898 said:


> Hey guys, Ive been doing a bit of reading on the interwebs about fern propagation. the reason being i have two plants of Microsorum thailandicum and well i have been noticing less and less places to get them online.. so i want to start some new plants just in case the ones ive got die. the other reason is i am building an open style panther chameleon enclosure and have several places these ferns would look great in.
> 
> so heres what Ive picked up as far as starting from spore. any tips or tweaks to this method would help greatly, as last time i tried to grow the spores nothing happened and it took months to fill back in on the undersides of the frond before i had enough spores to try again
> 
> ...


Don't know anything about how to propagate ferns from spore but I got a nice M. steeri (basically same as thailandicum) and was able to divide it a couple times from the roots. My 1 plant is now 2 large plants plus 3 other smaller divisions that had some roots and seem to be doing fine.

Harry had herminieri. I was gonna get it but it gets pretty large so for me it wasn't worth spending the money for something that would only fit in my largest tank or 2 when there is so much others stuff I want more right now and that one looks a lot like a large version of steeri.

Metalicum looks to get big too, probably only work longterm in a really large viv.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

Dendro Dave said:


> Don't know anything about how to propagate ferns from spore but I got a nice M. steeri (basically same as thailandicum) and was able to divide it a couple times from the roots. My 1 plant is now 2 large plants plus 3 other smaller divisions that had some roots and seem to be doing fine.
> 
> Harry had herminieri. I was gonna get it but it gets pretty large so for me it wasn't worth spending the money for something that would only fit in my largest tank or 2 when there is so much others stuff I want more right now and that one looks a lot like a large version of steeri.
> 
> Metalicum looks to get big too, probably only work longterm in a really large viv.


I will have to try splitting new plants off the parent "colony" again. last time i did the piece i took didn't like its new home and just rotted away.. maybe i just damaged the roots or since those leaves are pretty firm, maybe cracked the leaves somewhere.



oh by the way.... really big vivarium/thing check! its 7 feet tall by 3 feet wide by 3 feet deep and is in need of more plants something fierce =)










oh and its no where near done....


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## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Link3898 said:


> Hey guys, Ive been doing a bit of reading on the interwebs about fern propagation. the reason being i have two plants of Microsorum thailandicum and well i have been noticing less and less places to get them online.. so i want to start some new plants just in case the ones ive got die. the other reason is i am building an open style panther chameleon enclosure and have several places these ferns would look great in.
> 
> so heres what Ive picked up as far as starting from spore. any tips or tweaks to this method would help greatly, as last time i tried to grow the spores nothing happened and it took months to fill back in on the undersides of the frond before i had enough spores to try again
> 
> ...


Hey Keith

Sooooo I have grown ferns from spore before on petri dishes wich was pretty simple. You can whip up some agar using patato flakes-like the stuff for instant mashed potatoes-and sterilize it right in the microwave. The good thing about that is if you seal the lid on with scotch tape or something-it will stay humid enough to germinate the spores just fine. You would just set that in a windowsil and let it do its thing-be advised though, its not speedy by any means at all. As far as drying the spores you would print to paper or foil or something similar and you could use silica or rice or "dririte" (or another dessicant) to dry-it doesn't take very long; a good weak or so should do it. Hope that helps...


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

stitchb said:


> Hey Keith
> 
> Sooooo I have grown ferns from spore before on petri dishes wich was pretty simple. You can whip up some agar using patato flakes-like the stuff for instant mashed potatoes-and sterilize it right in the microwave. The good thing about that is if you seal the lid on with scotch tape or something-it will stay humid enough to germinate the spores just fine. You would just set that in a windowsil and let it do its thing-be advised though, its not speedy by any means at all. As far as drying the spores you would print to paper or foil or something similar and you could use silica or rice or "dririte" (or another dessicant) to dry-it doesn't take very long; a good weak or so should do it. Hope that helps...


That does help. i wonder though instead of using a desicant since our air here in colorado is super dry, usually around 20-25% humidity if i leave the spores on some foil upstairs if that would be enough to dry them out.. honestly i just learned the other day you were supposed to dry them, so in my last attempt a year ago i just scraped the spores off the leaves and tried to start them immediately.. never figured anything living in a rainforest would need to dry out first...


ooh and heres a little updated shot of the enclosure.. ive still got a lot of work to do on it,(like closing off the bottom) but now ive got the glass in, and that white edging is going to hide two T-5 light strips to keep the plants on the bottom happy, since its kind of dark down there. (the lights are in there and on right now, thats what those clips are holding up.) i still need to center the main light pendant, that is bothering me every time i look at it... and i need more of that white edging to finish the uh well edges with. i am pretty sure its wide enough and slick enough that an adult panther wont be able to grip it.


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

Check Youtube.com.
I searched 'Propagate Fern Spores', and found several. 

This one seemed sensible even if it was an advertisement at the end.
YouTube - fernfactory's Channel


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## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Link3898 said:


> That does help. i wonder though instead of using a desicant since our air here in colorado is super dry, usually around 20-25% humidity if i leave the spores on some foil upstairs if that would be enough to dry them out.. honestly i just learned the other day you were supposed to dry them, so in my last attempt a year ago i just scraped the spores off the leaves and tried to start them immediately.. never figured anything living in a rainforest would need to dry out first...


Well i know that in nature (the ferns we have around here anyway) what happens is the spores aren't released until the indusium (the thing that holds the spores to the leaf) is dried so id assume that during this process the spores themselves would get dried as well. As far as drying in open air goes-id assume that it could work as long as the room wasnt too drafty. the spores are so small that the slightest breeze would probably get them airborne...with that being said though there are probably several MILLION spores per frond so you could probably spare to lose a few lol. you might try letting a few fronds dry out completely than take the print that way. Good luck though! And the Viv is coming along great!!


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

candm519 said:


> Check Youtube.com.
> I searched 'Propagate Fern Spores', and found several.
> 
> This one seemed sensible even if it was an advertisement at the end.
> YouTube - fernfactory's Channel


 thanks, that helps 



stitchb said:


> Well i know that in nature (the ferns we have around here anyway) what happens is the spores aren't released until the indusium (the thing that holds the spores to the leaf) is dried so id assume that during this process the spores themselves would get dried as well. As far as drying in open air goes-id assume that it could work as long as the room wasnt too drafty. the spores are so small that the slightest breeze would probably get them airborne...with that being said though there are probably several MILLION spores per frond so you could probably spare to lose a few lol. you might try letting a few fronds dry out completely than take the print that way. Good luck though! And the Viv is coming along great!!


thanks for the compliments, i cant wait to see what it looks like in a year..


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

What we do at work is as follows. Fill up clean 1 quart pots with Fafard mix, which is basically peat and vermiculite( you could use a seed starting mix available at any Lowes or Home Depot, etc). And then place it in a tray which we then add a couple of kettles full of boiling water and allow the pots to absorb the water. Then put the pots in one gallon ziploc bags and stick them in the microwave and nuke em until the soil temperature is above 140 F which takes 10 to 15 minutes of nuking. Then allow the soil to cool in the sealed bag, and then add spores to the top of the media and reseal, put in a place out of direct light, and wait. Then once you see prothalli and other signs of green, move dime sized pieces from the container into cell packs, and allow to grow out for a month or 2, or until the ferns have a few fronds, at which time, they can be removed from the cell packs, and washed until the roots are exposed, then gently split them into either individual plants, or clumps of 2 to 3 smaller plants, and repot in cell packs again, and grow out a few more months, or until they are large enough to transplant into larger pots or the terrarium. In the home, I would imagine you could grow them out in a tank, with lighting and high humidity. We grow the babies in a climate controlled, very humid greenhouse with a mist system and bottom heat in the winter. They are very delicate. Hope this helps.

Zac


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

Yes that does help, thank you!  sounds like you do interesting work!


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

Yes, I do. The past 2 days I spent cleaning fern spores from the chaff prior to sowing. Talk about tedious. But some of the species I was working with had interesting colored spores. Dryopteris has generally dark chocolate brown sproes, and Polypodium vulgare has mustard yellow spores with a light brown chaff.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

Cool!


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

> so heres what Ive picked up as far as starting from spore. any tips or tweaks to this method would help greatly, as last time i tried to grow the spores nothing happened and it took months to fill back in on the undersides of the frond before i had enough spores to try again
> 
> - dry the spores and separate from fronds
> - screen peat moss-based potting soil (or just mix screened peatmoss and sand), to get out long fibers and chunks.
> ...


I usually put a drainage layer under the peat because I find the peat holds too much water. I also find that a lot of ferns (bird's nest, staghorn, maidenhair's, rabbits foot, etc...) do best with lower light (since they are under leaflitter, and a canopy in the wild) so i use a little shelving unit (like 4 shelves) and put a clamp light pointing at all of them. Oh and when some people say to pick out the smaller ones, i find they're the ones that end up getting the biggest.

just my 2 cents


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

When we get some good gametophyte growth, we usually divide them up into dime sized pieces and transplant them into 72 count size cell packs, in the faffard mix, and grow them out a bit longer, then divide them again, and replant in cell packs, as individual plants or clumps of smaller, more weak plants, which are grown out again, and divided down the line again. They aren't grown under the mist, but they are near it, so they get some random water drioplets on them, and are gently watered with a hose from overhead. I generally aim the hose up and allow the water to fall on them gently from 3 to 4 feet up, but again, this is happening in a greenhouse, so water spillage isnt really a problem. For what its worth, I have gametophytes popping up on a chunk of bark which used to have a resurrection fern ( Polypodium polypodioides var michauxianum) growing on it, which is siliconed onto the side of the tank my campana auratus is in, and that tank is far from spotlessly clean. It gets some algae and fungal happenings on the glass, so the sterile environment is more for purity of the gametophytes to prevent the contamination from other airborne fern spores, which are around, no matter where you are.


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## dirtmonkey (Feb 10, 2007)

Did you go ahead and try growing your spores?



Link3898 said:


> - dry the spores and separate from fronds
> - screen peat moss-based potting soil (or just mix screened peatmoss and sand), to get out long fibers and chunks.
> - pour boiling water through the soil mix (I skip this step when I use pre-pasteurized potting soils).
> - drain and cool soil mix
> ...


That's pretty much exactly how I do it, it's worked for everything I've tried so far. The more involved ways are needed for mass production, but just for some spares and trades, that simple way will get you more than enough plants. I tried paper towels/brown paper, but instead of being easier, they were harder to keep from molding than screened potting mix. Some never grew on paper either- not sure if it was something in the paper or just old spores though.

I just updated my post on growing some from spores-

Miniature oak leaf fern from spores

Vincent


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