# New to Santa Isabels



## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, I went from wanting to get some imitators to some santa isabels. I went to the oaks reptile expo and picked up 3 from black jungle. The dart frogs look great and wondering how to tell if you have a pair or not. Also, any other info you want to add. I was told they were about 6 months.

Even though you probably can't tell there sex yet, I think I have 1 female and two males. The one frog has a more pear shape than the other 2. Look at image 0340, I think that's the female.


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

Identifying the sex of dart frogs in general is difficult. The only way that you can usually tell is by hearing/seeing calling or seeing eggs. There is some sexual dimorphism, but it tends to be really difficult to distinguish those characteristics.

So your guess is as good as mine. 

Those are some nice looking frogs though!☺ congrats!


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Thanks. These frogs are extremely active and have a big apatite. Every day I look at them and they're always out.


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## Moghue (Jan 15, 2013)

You will know soon enough if you have a pair or not. I wasnt sure at first If i did or not and now they are breeding machines. Im always seeing the male carrying tads every few weeks. Unfortuanatly i have only been able so far to keep about 4 tads alive.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

At least that's a start. I have some more pictures I will post later. I woke up today and my one frog had a huge belly. While I still have one that is thin but doesn't seem to be rounding out, but is eating. Maybe early signs of a pair.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

here's some pics. The last two pics are of what I think is a possible female.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Today I heard my frog call for the first time. It was lower than I expected. So now I know there's one male and two unknown.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

mantella_guy said:


> Well, I went from wanting to get some imitators to some santa isabels. I went to the oaks reptile expo and picked up 3 from black jungle. The dart frogs look great and wondering how to tell if you have a pair or not. Also, any other info you want to add. I was told they were about 6 months.
> 
> Even though you probably can't tell there sex yet, I think I have 1 female and two males. The one frog has a more pear shape than the other 2. Look at image 0340, I think that's the female.


You may be right, however the females can get very plump and are very obvious. If they are young then it may not be as apparent. I would agree that you have at least 2 males.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Thank you for replying. So when I was listening to my male call, it sounded different than the ones online. It kind of sounds like a squirrel's chatter.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

I think I know what gender my frogs are now. I think there are 2 males and 1 female. The 2 males keep trying to grab on to the small but fat female. Missing but trying. Also, the one frog does call but not loud.


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

mantella_guy said:


> I think I know what gender my frogs are now. I think there are 2 males and 1 female. The 2 males keep trying to grab on to the small but fat female. Missing but trying. Also, the one frog does call but not loud.


Don't worry, the call we be extremely loud soon. I've noticed that developing frogs tend to sort of "learn" how to call. Their call will be lower at first, and then increase in loudness as time goes on.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Thanks for saying that. At first I thought I got 2 santa isabels and one that looked like one. Also, how would I go about warming up the tank. Apparently during the day, the tank is only at 70 degrees. I tried putting a 8 watt exo terra heat matt on the side. It didn't throw enough heat to penetrate the glass. Now I'm trying a zoo med heat matt 8 watts which is heating up a lot faster.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

that poor female...she'll get worn out from all the attention.....


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

brendan0923 said:


> Don't worry, the call we be extremely loud soon. I've noticed that developing frogs tend to sort of "learn" how to call. Their call will be lower at first, and then increase in loudness as time goes on.


I have several epips "Highland" (not St Isabel), but I never noticed this "learn" how to call with the age. Mine call in the same way from an early age.
Nice call, IMO, quite loud but not as much as my pums (Solarte and Almirante especially).


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

rigel10 said:


> I have several epips "Highland" (not St Isabel), but I never noticed this "learn" how to call with the age. Mine call in the same way from an early age.
> Nice call, IMO, quite loud but not as much as my pums (Solarte and Almirante especially).


Interesting. Perhaps it depends on the species. This was definitely the case with my imitators and leucomelas. There was a noticeable difference in their call between when they first began calling and about a month or so after their first call. The call would be lower and shorter at first, and then gradually increase in length and volume.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I have 9 month old epips "Highland" and they call like their 4 years old dad. But their call is not louder than of my Solarte. 
Maybe you're right, it depends on the species - but maybe also by the frog: for example, I have two Solarte pairs (in different rooms) and one of the two males call more often than the other, although the loud is the same.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well the videos I have wouldn't work ,so here's two santa Isabel pics and 2 pics of the patricia tank and frogs. There are 3 tincs in that tank. 1 male and 2 unknown to be exact. Also, does anyone know how to take care of dart frog tadpoles. My dad just ordered 3 off of ebay for a total of 48 dollars ,that's with shipping. We had 2 choices, we could get 3 cobalt or 3 citronella tads. We chose the citronella tads.


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

rigel10 said:


> I have 9 month old epips "Highland" and they call like their 4 years old dad. But their call is not louder than of my Solarte.
> Maybe you're right, it depends on the species - but maybe also by the frog: for example, I have two Solarte pairs (in different rooms) and one of the two males call more often than the other, although the loud is the same.


Good point. It does seem that certain individuals have slightly different calls and/or call more or less frequently. One individual may produce a certain call that differs slightly from another individual within the tank, or one may call louder because he is the dominant male of the group, or whatever the case may be. Or, as in your case, one male just calls more frequently than the other.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Ok I have a video of my frog calling ,but how do I post it? I tried manage attachments and it just says "please wait uploading". But pictures upload right away. I took the video on my IPod and copied it onto my lab top.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well frogs are active as ever ,but the one that I think is the female hasn't been out in the past 2 days. Could this be a sign or it just hiding?


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Some more pics


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, they're older now. They are 9 months old and seeing a lot of changes. One the male is calling up a storm. Every couple seconds he calls. Second, color has popped more. Third, two of the three frogs look like a female. They don't call but their bodies get really wide.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

mantella_guy said:


> Well, they're older now. They are 9 months old and seeing a lot of changes. One the male is calling up a storm. Every couple seconds he calls. Second, color has popped more. Third, two of the three frogs look like a female. They don't call but their bodies get really wide.


From the images it looks like picture 1 and 2 from left to right are female and the last one looks like the male. If you do have two females I would watch for egg eating once they breed. The females may take a little longer to mature, but I'd suspect eggs any day now.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, I was watching them today and the brightly colored female was trying to pet the male's back. But the problem was that she missed the male and was petting bark.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, today I went into my room to feed my frogs and found something unexpected. EGGS! There's a total of 17. First clutch ever laid. How do I know if they're fertile or infertile?


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## fbazin (Dec 4, 2014)

mantella_guy said:


> Well, today I went into my room to feed my frogs and found something unexpected. EGGS! There's a total of 17. First clutch ever laid. How do I know if they're fertile or infertile?


you are a lucky man !


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

These guys are only 9 months old. I was expecting eggs in about 2-3 months not today.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Male guarding eggs.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Congrats on the eggs. You'll know if they are fertile by waiting a few days and looking at them. If they start to form a line/ ridge down the middle, they are fertile; if infertile they will likely start to get yellow, cloudy, or moldy after a few days. There's threads on here if you search with pictures of eggs developing at different stages so you can see what I mean.
A word of caution with anthonyi- they will breed out of control if you're not careful. You could easily wind up with 50+ tadpoles within a couple of months if you aren't careful, and will likely end up having a hard time finding buyers for them all at some point. I suggest you take it slow with these and only raise a few at a time so you can manage it without being overrun. To get mine to stop breeding, I dry the tank out a bit, remove all standing water, cut back some of the big flat leaves they like to lay on (like pothos), and feed less. Even still, they may continue laying eggs so be prepared to slow them down as needed.
Bryan


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Thanks for the info. I figured out that my eggs are fertile and is starting to form into small tadpoles. Unfortunately 4 of the 17 eggs were eaten by the third frog so I had to pull eggs. I have them in a small container sitting in the tank.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

I dont have santa isabels but I do have a trio of rios, and they are close in nature, Im watching them closesly, I have one mature male roughly twice the size of my other two, the other two I picked up later and am hoping I have at least 1 female, its hard to tell, when I got them (the two) they were still brown in juvenile fashion of this species, so far all three get along, no signs of aggression but my main male is definitely the dominating factor, when I feed them they all group, no sign of hostility, very hungry very active around feeding but what frog isnt? all three picked out spots in the tank they call home, my concern is that my male used to call but doesnt anymore since introducing the other two but the other two are growing in in size and stature, also they are starting to get that cherry red coloration, it goes by mood, they tend to be on the brown side when hanging out but red when eating! Nom nom time seems to be the happy point lol the other two are growing nicely but one is slightly smaller so I dont know if that one should be removed, Im leaning towards it but watch daily ...btw my male has a cork tube front and center of the tank and when he hears me in the room he always pokes his head out! lol he will actually sit with me when Im doing homework on my computer (tank in office) I have pics of all three


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Have you notced them taking a dip in the local pond after eating? Mine seem to enjoy dipping into their monkey nut with a belly full of fruits lol


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Yeah my frogs are pretty great. Before I even get to the room I can hear my male call. Its pretty loud. I toss in dusted fruit flies which are gobbled up as soon as they hit the ground. I have one large, one average and one smaller frog. Its kind of weird, smallest one was the female that laid the eggs, but colors are amazing. The male is the medium frog which never shuts up but I don't mind. Finally, the last one is unknown, its about 1 1/4 inches. 

The pics should be eggs developing, larger frog, male and small female that laid eggs.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, the one infertile egg killed almost all of them. I went from 17 eggs to 1. And that one was a tadpole which I helped out of the egg due to the fear of fungus spreading. I have no idea if it's going to make it. So far its been 3 days out of the egg but doesn't move much. It just sits there and every once in a while you will see a twitch or a wiggle, but the tadpole is still really bloated. Maybe still trying to absorb egg sack?


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Well, this is what happened. I got home from school three days ago and the tadpole died. But the same day I found a new clutch that's been in the tank for about 3 days or so. 12 eggs, 2 infertile

This time I removed the infertile eggs so no mold.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Ok, those eggs did the same exact thing the first clutch did. They started to develop and just died. I'm give the frogs plenty of calcium and giving them fruit flies, springs, and dwarf white jungle isopods. But the only I can think of why the eggs are making it, is because the frog is 10 months old. Other than that, I don't know.

Good news is that the unknown gender of the one frog was a female. I came home from school wondering how the eggs were doing then I saw this. My male frog on top of female frog just sitting there. It was kind of creepy because the had no reaction when I entered the room, so I left. I went back up in one hour and same position. Then I came back up again and same thing. About 2 hours after that I went back up and I heard a weird popping noise. When I looked at the frog there were 3 eggs by her feet. I was pretty excited. Left and came back up in about 30 minutes found 13 eggs. 3 eggs were infertile. A lot different looking then the other frog's clutches. Eggs were smaller, less gel, and had a black and whit color. Now on day four, they have started to have a crease down the middle and have a small tadpole just starting to form.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Ok, I know everyone is wondering what is happening in my Santa Isabel frog world. At the moment I'm at clutch 8. I bet all of you are wondering where's the tad pic, the answer to that is I don't have any. Clutches 1-5 all died from fungus. But clutch number 6 is on day 12 and the first tad just emerged. I will post pics tomorrow and would love to hear any comments or info on raising the tads.


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## mantella_guy (Aug 14, 2014)

Here are the Santa Isabel pics which has the stages of development.


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