# bloat or gravid? New pics



## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

I'm pretty sure she is a female based on some help from the folks at AZDR. She is paired with a male that is approx. the same age and he sings to me all day! She still hasn't made a noise so I assume she is a she. She has been active and eating since I brought her home. Anyway, I was hoping you can tell me if she looks gravid or if this could be bloat. I don't know how to tell the dif since I've never bred before. I have read a few posts on bloat and I would like to make sure. Thanks everybody.


----------



## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

tough to tell but the first pic looks like it could be bloat. usually the gravid females don't exhibit suck a rounded neck/back. could be the angle though as the second pic doesn't look so bad.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you look at the throat, it appears that there is swelling in this region (under the head). If there is swelling there, then you have some form of bloat (which keep in mind is a symptom not a disease) and I would suggest removing the frog and starting amphibian ringers baths and consult a vet to determine if it is due to an infection. 

Ed


----------



## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

OK. I have read as many posts as I could find about the ringers solution but I am having some troubles getting the ingredients locally. I spoke with 1 of the only reptile vets around and he doesn't have all the stuff for it. I am waiting for a reply from 1 other vet. I have tried 2 pharmacies, which is where I was told I should be able to get everything but have had no luck. I did find 1 medical supply store who has everything but it is all in liquid form and they may need a medical license from me to sell it to me. I am waiting for their reply too. I did get some pedialyte, which I also hear is the next best thing. My question is how do I go about translating the weights from the powders to the liquids if they do sell me the stuff? Also, 1 post had a link to a supplier but I would prefer not to wait for shipping. If anybody has some locally (corona, ca.) I would be more than happy to re-imburse you for your troubles. I did have 1 other question. This frog was purchased from a well known vendor here on DB and was about 1 year old when I got her. She is in a brand new viv with brand new plants that were all washed thoroughly before she and her mate from the same vendor were introduced. That being said, does that mean that if indeed it is bloat, would it be caused from impaction due to something she may have ingested? She does like to hunt out springs on the viv floor (which she was actively doing this morning) so maybe some of the substrate (eco-earth, peat moss and orchid mix with no ferts) is to blame?


----------



## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

here are a few new pics. maybe this will help determine if she is bloated. I have her in the ringers solution now.


----------



## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

too hard to tell from the top. for reference here's a pic of my gravid vent. I'd go with Ed's insight as he's the local know it all (respectfully :wink: )

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27330


----------



## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

ok. She's soaking now. How long should I soak her for? Here's another pic from the side.


----------



## vet_boy77 (Feb 10, 2005)

Got your note- PM sent.
JD


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Your questions on Ringer's solution have been scattered over the forum without details of this particular frog's problem, which are finally evident, at least to me, here, several hours later. If you keep your questions all together in one section, along with details, it would help with getting more informed and less confusing answers. Although this frog does seem to appear more bloated rather than simply obese or full of eggs, the basic cause of the bloat is what you need to treat. Dart frogs rarely ingest extraneous material such as substrate, but if they do, the impaction that might be causing the bloat needs to be diagnosed and removed, and you will need a certified herp vet to examine the frog and do this. If the bloat is due to an underlying disease, perhaps a hypertonic solution of electrolytes might help initially to draw off some of the excess water that has accumulated, but you still have the initial disease that is causing this to happen to contend with. 

Is the frog still active and eating, appearing bright and healthy other than the apparent largeness? If so, feed her less-- She's simply too fat, but doesn't need any special treatment. If she is dull, lethargic, not holding herself upright, she's sick and may need more than a Ringer's solution bath to help her. When this happens, it depends upon what you are willing and able to invest in specialty veterinary diagnosis and treatment. And even that may not "save" a sick frog.


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

DDx:

Obesity (esp if she IS eating)
Bloat (esp if she ISNT eating/ acting right)
Gravid (although I agree the 'swollen' neck is strangely atypical)

S


----------



## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

> Your questions on Ringer's solution have been scattered over the forum without details of this particular frog's problem, which are finally evident, at least to me, here, several hours later. If you keep your questions all together in one section, along with details, it would help with getting more informed and less confusing answers.


Sorry. I wasn't sure where I should have put it and I tried to fish for as many answers as I could get. 
Bellerophon- Thanks for the pics.
Sports_doc- She is in a temp container so I can watch her closely and get a fecal sample, but as of last night when I removed her, she was still eating. Hopefully she is just a piggy-piggy.
Ed- I soaked her last night in the ringers solution for about an hr. 
Slaytonp- She is just as colorful as ever and she sits upright and is alert and active. 
Thanks everyone. I will keep a close eye on her when I get back home.


----------

