# What would you pay for a frog book?



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I have been wanting self-publish a book for some time on the pumilio of the Bocas region. It would mostly be a photo book showing the variability of different populations, but it would also include some personal accounts about the different morphs as well as some basic scientific data (temp/humidity/rain/etc.) and habitat photos. I would guess that it'd be 100ish pages covering 20+ morphs (since I'll get a couple more morphs in a couple weeks in CR, I would also probably include those as well as a Nicaraguan morph; probably the northernmost population of pumilio). I would also include maps, but they would be vague for some of the rarer populations not nonexistent to protect their location (e.g., the "Nicki" population). It'd sorta be a coffee table book, but also a reference book for natural history stuff.

I have been looking around for an appropriate publishing place (Blurb.com) and about the best I have found would be $40ish for a hardcover 10"x8" and $30ish for a softcover. It looks like the pages would be printed on glossy paper and all, which would make them that much more appealing. I really wanted to find a format that highlighted the photos.

So I guess the question is, would you pay $30-$40 for a pumilio of Bocas book? I would like to get the cost down, but it doesn't look like that's possible and still maintain the quality of the photography. I will possibly make one for myself just to make sure the quality is maintained and as a memento, but the question is to open it up to everyone.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Probably not if it is mostly photographs, though I would be all for something like the Christensen books with observations and/or data.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

stemcellular said:


> Probably not if it is mostly photographs, though I would be all for something like the Christensen books with observations and/or data.


Same here, it would need to be one of those big coffeetable books for me to a picture book.


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm not sure I'd spend that much either. Problem is that there are tons of free photos and information on the Internet. I bought a couple used books for $5-$10/ea when I first thought about getting into darts. Since then I've just been scouring this site and a few others. 

Have you thought about outsourcing the publishing to another country where things are cheaper? You might be able to find a publisher in India that'll dropship your orders right to customers without you ever lifting another finger. Perhaps if you can get the cost down under $20 or so you'll have a better response.


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## laylow (Apr 6, 2009)

Off of the top of my head I was thinking for 20 bucks and I'd snatch it up for sure. If it was 30-40 and I'd wanna look at the quality and the "awesomeness" factor but I'd still probably get it cause I have a little dart frog addiction. 

Shaw


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## InnoEcto (Jun 28, 2009)

I would, as long as there is some good info to go along with the pictures.
I like the idea of comparring the conditions of the different localities.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

For pictures only, $30-$40 is a little steep. However, knowledge and well-written experiences are always worth paying for.


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

I don't particularly care for pumilio and I would buy it hardcover for $40 because you include habitat photos and environmental data.


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## frogmanroth (May 23, 2006)

stemcellular said:


> Probably not if it is mostly photographs, though I would be all for something like the Christensen books with observations and/or data.


Same here, we need more pictures of habitat and data. More about where they come from than the frogs themselves.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

My general idea would be to have a chapter on Bocas history, a chapter habitat photos, chapters on the morphs with accounts on each, chapter on meteorological data including yearly variation in temperature, humidity, and rainfall, as well as daily variation. I could probably even those in the month-by-month changes.

The photos are nice and certainly would be a highlight of the books, but my aim would be to have a little more meat to it than just pictures.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

then sign me up for a copy, JP.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I would buy it depending on quality....But if it has great pics and contains everything you said then it sounds like a great book......


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Lulu.com

Start small.....go paperback and self publish first. You can always upgrade the smae material later and offer a discount to paperback customers should you elect a do-over or a hardback copy.


Here's a neat way to also prefund your endevor....

Kickstarter.com


You know that I'll buy at least two copies.


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## Sabotage (Jun 1, 2010)

There's a book on dart frog husbandry that sells at saurian.net for over $100. I think $25 to $35 is reasonable. There are people who prefer a book to staring at a glowing rectangle.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

The Lotter's (Poison Frogs: Biology, Species and Captive Husbandry) book sells for $130-$150 and is indispensible for a serious hobbyist. Jewels of the Rainforest can be had on Amazon.com for around $30 and is a great picturebook of the frogs we love.

Richard.


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## vugger#1 (Jul 20, 2009)

JP it sounds like a $30.00 to $40.00 book to me. I would buy it.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Think local


btcope said:


> Have you thought about outsourcing the publishing to another country where things are cheaper? You might be able to find a publisher in India that'll dropship your orders right to customers without you ever lifting another finger. Perhaps if you can get the cost down under $20 or so you'll have a better response.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Habitat data for each morph or at least general data for the area(rain,temp,out in the open or under canopy,variation photos, etc. and habitat pics) would get me to buy it.


MonarchzMan said:


> My general idea would be to have a chapter on Bocas history, a chapter habitat photos, chapters on the morphs with accounts on each, chapter on meteorological data including yearly variation in temperature, humidity, and rainfall, as well as daily variation. I could probably even those in the month-by-month changes.
> 
> The photos are nice and certainly would be a highlight of the books, but my aim would be to have a little more meat to it than just pictures.


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

Good info, maps, and a lot of pics for resources... yeah I'd buy it for sure, 40-50 is not a lot when it comes to nice large books with good photos. I dont regret buying 'Jewels of the Rain forest' and that is still 120ish,, and its photo quality is 70's quality at best.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

The sweet price point for a luxury item, like a specialty book is hard to gauge , especially in todays economy.

I would still start small / cheaper......the DB membership should reward your efforts just based on your contribution to the hobby. I still firmly believe in that exact sort of good will.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I do like the continued discussion. I would like to make it as cheap as possible, but it's the sort of thing where you get what you pay for. If I go too cheap, the quality will suffer, and as a result, it won't really get good reviews.

I guess step one is making the book then worrying about price. I'm just curious what sort of interest it would receive if made public. Maybe I'll work on it a little bit in down time while in Costa Rica for the next three weeks.


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## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

If a book of lower quality costs $25 then $35 is not that bad especially seeings how it would be showing support to one of our own members who is doing the grunt work to bring us these pictures.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

if its a picture book and its well printed like the Jerry Walls book then yes, if its like the Rich Frey book where is low quality then it woudl not be worth it.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

I would pay 30-40 easy, Even more if it had more morphs covered. I paid $15.99 for that Pumilio poster from the PPPP.
What I would want to see is more details, maps, data, and a broad range of photos showing differences in localities. I think if you are aiming this toward hobbyist, most of us want something that looks good with a lot of photos, but also something we can use for reference. Dare I say it..
"The Official, Very Last, Hands Down Oophaga Pumilio Morph Guide Ever Needed! By J.P"


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Haha, well I don't know that I would be able to cover every morph, but I would be able to cover: Colon (Drago and "La Gruta"), Bastimentos (RFB, Cemetery, Salt Creek, Tranquilo Bay), San Cristobal, Aguacate (Shark Hole, Dolphin Bay), Pastores, Pelican Key, Nicki, Popa (North, South), Loma Partida, Cayo de Agua, Escudo de Veraguas, Valiente, Uyama, Robalo, and Almirante as far as Bocas goes. I would probably throw in Tortuguero (tentatively, I'm expecting/hoping to find them on this trip), La Selva, and Puerto Viejo (expecting/hoping) for the CR populations and Pearl Lagoon for the Nicaragua population. So only 23-25 morphs...

So it wouldn't be a complete, especially since I haven't hit as many of the mainland populations in Bocas as I would have liked (it's up in the air, but I may go down again this summer, and if that's the case, I'd like to pick up some of the mainland areas; I doubt it would be done then anyway; may be a good Christmas gift for a frogger next year ). But it should be an extensive one. I have some climate data for most of the populations, and complete data (rain, temperature, humidity) for a couple years from Isla Colon (which can be extrapolated to other populations).

I envision it being rather extensive. The only problems are that the more extensive it is, the more it'll cost and the more time it'll take. If I figure each morph on average gets 6 pages (some will get more, some will get less), plus a general introduction, habitat description, climate data, and a reference list, I'm looking at around 120-150 pages.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

That sounds good, I know my idea of having every Morph is a little far fetched , but write a book you can be proud of, then if need be, worry about the cost when it comes time to publish.

Oh and feel free to use my title if you like.


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## Mworks (Mar 23, 2008)

Put me down for a copy - def!!!!

It's a snip at $40 for a first hand account of species, habitats and temps/humidity etc.

Regards
Marcus


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

If its the quality in printing of Jewels of the Rainforest or Sahyadris

Sahyadris, by Sandesh Kadur & Kamal Bawa | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

i would be willing to pay a few bucks for a book like these. They are very good quality printing, and you pay for what you get. Also if there is added data for temps and local info that is the most up to date we have then that is worth it to me.

You can put me down for one as well.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

I know I would buy it, but you need to look at the limited audience, then look at the price of similar books, i.e. softcover 150 pp books' prices, try to project what you would sell from there right -


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

I would look into some of the carnivorous plant books put out by Stewart McPherson (Red Fern Natural History Productions). That could be a good format style for what you're thinking, JP.


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

I think $30-$40 for a hard cover extremely detailed intricate book would be a steal! I would certainly take one (especially if the author were to sign it). JP if your book was dealing with a lot of data, and included your photos I would be extremely interested. I think that a lot of hobbyists would be as well. The details in your data and observations would certainly be an eye opening experience. I look forward to updates on the issue.


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I would buy it in a second. I always wanted to put out a general information book for all dart frogs. Jewels of the rain forest is excellent for photos. I think it would be a big seller. I did work for a guy who published his own garden book. Nice book and Im sure he did not pay much for it to be published. I believe he had it done by a little company out of Newark NJ.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Whatever happened with this?

Jake


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

You can't rush perfection 

It has been a busy transition into a PhD program, but I am going to have a pretty short field season, so I might make some progress on this over the summer.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

I won't quote the many comments on this thread. It seems most Americans want a job but want to pay another country a cheaper amount for the products they purchase. 

Okay, back to the question. I think a book of photography ranging in the 30-40 dollar range is acceptable. I have a feeling the many of the people who say they won't pay that price will run a bar tab in the 30-40 dollar range. It is all about what is important at the time.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

I just ready you are working on your Ph.D. I would easily pay 30-40 for a book from a qualified Ph.D. I too have a Ph.D. and value those with the educational credentials to back up what they have to say  Seriously, if you have a descent product I would buy it...even if you are currently "just" a Doctoral Candidate


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, its not always about whether "is the book worth 30-40". Obviously, if you find the right individuals (Pumilio fanatics) 40.00 is a drop in the bucket. I've spent almost a thousand dollars on dart books over 15-16 years. There are a number of criteria i use to decide a purchase. #1, the quantity of pictures and nice glossy color prints. If I find gray photography, line drawings, or other such garbage ways of keeping costs down, the book is not for me. Next, I value large coffe table books above those little 8 x 10 books. I want 10 x 14. They are amazing looking creatures, adn I dont want to look at little 1 x 2 pics. Next, your topic may be a little narrow. I think an entire book could very well be written about pumilio, but not "just" on the variability and morphs. I would want to see picutes of breeding locations, broms used "in situ", rainfall temp variations, microfauna availability in each region, and then.....all this translated into captive husbandry requirements, appropriate vivs, planting enviroments, etc. And, I think 100 pages is to limited. I think 175 minimum, with 250 + being ideal. Yes, I'm picky.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

I would have no problem paying $60 honestly. Considering your credentials and everything you want to include in the book, and since it would basically be the only book of its kind.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

that' actually seems like the lower end of what a well published, and written, academic text costs (which seems to be the aim here). In fact, I just got this today

Amazon.com: Events That Changed Ancient Greece (9780313316395): Bella Vivante: Books


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