# *Help* Sex my Vanzolinii?



## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

Unsure where to post this, but here goes.

I have 4 R.Vanzolinii which are about 15 months old now, and while I have heard calling for about the last 6 months, I see no courtship / eggs / tads with none of the other frogs responding to the male/s calls, so i'm wondering if i'm unlucky and have got 4 males?

Heres a few shots of 3 of them :


DSC_0229 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0207 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0205 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0200 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0196 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Thoughts?

Cheers

Anthony


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Last one could be female but the rest look male


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

frogparty said:


> Last one could be female but the rest look male


I was afraid you'd say that. I guess with no signs of eggs / tads @ 15 months of age I should accept that they're males.

*Thanks for moving it to the correct section*


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

The last one, that I think could potentially be female - thoughts? :


DSC_0258 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0263 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0262 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

how about a full tank shot, how are you positioning your film cans? Before I sold my breeders they prefered horizontal cans stagger stacked in groups of four or more.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That last one could possibly be a female. Mine are masters of hiding their eggs so I keep film cans at a 45 degree angle partially filled with water for them to deposit in. When I have found the eggs, it has been in horizontal film cans tucked into the leaf litter, or on bigger magnolia leaves buried in the leaf litter.
Mine have started breeding around Christmas for the last two years and shut down in the hottest part of the summer.


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

D3monic said:


> how about a full tank shot, how are you positioning your film cans? Before I sold my breeders they prefered horizontal cans stagger stacked in groups of four or more.


FTS below, however I guess the problem isn't the fact of incorrectly positioned film canisters, but the fact all four look like males? It would explain why they are 15 months old, I hear calling and haven't seen any courtship, eggs or tads though?



Pumilo said:


> That last one could possibly be a female. Mine are masters of hiding their eggs so I keep film cans at a 45 degree angle partially filled with water for them to deposit in. When I have found the eggs, it has been in horizontal film cans tucked into the leaf litter, or on bigger magnolia leaves buried in the leaf litter.
> Mine have started breeding around Christmas for the last two years and shut down in the hottest part of the summer.


As above Pumilio, here's a FTS anyway :


DSC_0178 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

They were moved into this new viv 4 weeks ago, prior to that, in the old viv, they had plenty of film canisters / broms and in the 12 months they were in there, no eggs or tads.

Cheers for the feedback so far

Anthony


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

A few more photos of the potential female - opinions? :


DSC_0276 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0271 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0265 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


DSC_0289 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

I would say It looks female than male. Or it can be a male with a fem. Touch. If I had to guess I would say female.


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

vivlover10 said:


> I would say It looks female than male. Or it can be a male with a fem. Touch. If I had to guess I would say female.


It seems it's either a female or fat male. The fact they've not showed any signs of breeding in the 13 months i've owned them makes me think it's a fat male.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

You might try to seprate them, one at a time. My varadero were all male and within 15 min they started singing.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Ahhh shucks!!! You beat me to it! I would take the possible female and deffinate male and put them in that viv. I would then take the other males in a separate viv or quarintine. Then if both call you know you have two males. If eggs are laid then you celebrate!!! Then you can get a female for the lonely males. Or you can put them back in the viv.



Viv is very pretty by the way! I'm considering vanzos for my next frog. To many to choose from!!!!!!


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## Twiggyb (Mar 2, 2011)

How can you tell the difference between male and females?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I go by body shape in cases like this. But there's really only one way to tell


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

vivlover10 said:


> Ahhh shucks!!! You beat me to it! I would take the possible female and deffinate male and put them in that viv. I would then take the other males in a separate viv or quarintine. Then if both call you know you have two males. If eggs are laid then you celebrate!!! Then you can get a female for the lonely males. Or you can put them back in the viv.
> 
> Viv is very pretty by the way! I'm considering vanzos for my next frog. To many to choose from!!!!!!


I will be leaving the two other males in this viv, putting the possible female / fat male along with the male who calls every day into their own viv - and hope I see some action 

I'm trying to locate female Vanzolinii but here in the UK it seems I can only buy unsexed juveniles 

Regards

Anthony

P.s. - this is the viv the possible pair will be going in  -


DSC_0168 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

In my two breeding groups of R. vanzolinis, the females are quite a bit bigger than the males. It's hard to gauge in the individual photos, but I would think that they are all males.

Just one persons opinion, Richard.


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

Woodsman said:


> In my two breeding groups of R. vanzolinis, the females are quite a bit bigger than the males. It's hard to gauge in the individual photos, but I would think that they are all males.
> 
> Just one persons opinion, Richard.


Not good news. In hindsight, I shoud have moved the possible 'female' into the viv on her own, as I assume on 'her' own, away from the dominant male, she'd be more inclined to call.


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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I got a group of 2.2 that were over 2 years old, the person I got them from heard calling but no signs of breeding or Eggs. One month after getting them they started giving me Eggs, first they would hide them then put them in Film Canisters and started just laying them on the front Glass. Looking at seperate pictures reallygets tricky unless there is a huge size and shape difference. While mine are on the front of the Glass you can easily tell the Males from the Females I have offspring that are clearly sexable at 5 months these will be placed with another group of unrelated Frogs. So if you think you have a Female it may be better to pair her with the calling Male and wait and see, It may just take some time good luck.

Scott


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

So there's a noticeable size difference (S-to-V) between the sexes then? Managed to put the dominant male back in with the group, just waiting on catching 'Smiler' to try 'her' on her own...


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## CHuempfner (Apr 27, 2008)

Hi. I also have a group of 4 vanzos and I hear calling all the time. For a long time I thought I had at least one female as it was much larger than the others. After constant calling, with no eggs, over several months, I decided I probably had 4 males. 

Just last week I found their first eggs (or at lease the first ones that I have found). Since then, I have found 2 more clutches. The definite female is definitely larger than the males, and I have a possible second female. The largest is very pear shaped and slightly longer S-V length. The questionable one is no longer than the males, but (s)he is pretty fat looking.

I hope that moving your group around brings you some eggs! Good Luck!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

My vanzolini were well over a year old before they ever left any eggs. They were in different hands for their first year but I still had them several months before they left us our first tad in a film canister last Christmas morning.


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## gex23 (Apr 15, 2008)

Sounds like I should hang on a little longer then, and fingers crossed - as they say - it's all over when the fat lady sings! lol.


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