# Viv ponds



## wimpy (Dec 14, 2006)

I'm working on 7 vivs at the moment and just finished up the foam work last week. In 4 of the vivs (18x18x24) I used some GS pond foam to make a pond in front corner of each one. The Vivs are going to sit four to a rack, two on top, two on bottom. The ponds will kinda look like they are together in each pair making a half circle seen from the front. I'm attempting to have each pair kind of have a wrap around look with the ponds appearing to look like larger ponds in the center. Each pond will hold approx. 24oz. The rest of the substrate backing the foam will be LECA/weed barrier/fir-spaghnum mix and there is also a drain with a ball valve under each one

I started thinking after I did the foam work though and wondered if there is any benefit to having a pond besides visually? In my 11 other vivs, all of which have ponds, only one frog (an Azureus) is ever seen in the water. The only reason I've put in ponds is that I just thought that they needed it, with nothing to base it on. I always hope that some hidden tads that hatch out might be deposited in them but ... I also know that we don't need to keep our vivs so sopping wet as long as the humidity stays up that the frogs don't need to soak. 

Before I trim up the ponds, what are the plus's and negatives? Personal preference? I figure that I'll be losing a little over an 1/8th of the floor space. It's only a minor matter to remove the GS. In my other vivs, the ponds are just hollowed out corners which always get choked out with roots, especially pothos roots which always need to be trimmed out. I figure that the roots won't be able to really get into the GS ponds. 

Any thoughts on wether to keep them or is the floor space more valuable?


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

male dart frogs soak up water to deposit on the eggs to keep them moist , that alone is the reason i have a water section in every tank i keep darts in ,yea thru spraying or in the brom there water but my vittatus , leucs, alanis ,tricolors, auratus x2, cobalts, new rivers all go for a dip from time to time, it also seems like a place they tend to hang out kinda like the office folk at the water cooler.
craig 
ps even the lil tricolor santa isabella can easily swim in 4 inches of water, i have one that is commonly seen climbing to the top of the 33 gal i have them in and jumping in the water


----------



## stinkysab (Feb 21, 2008)

why would it matter if you had a pond or not. You are going to pull the eggs and take care of them yourself. Ponds are probably for looks. water feature=less floor space.


----------



## bLue_reverie (Mar 2, 2008)

For me, I think ponds are nothing more than for aesthetic reasons. I have vivs with and without water features and I can both keep the humidity up with the same amount of maintenance.

Right now, the only frogs I have that are in permanent vivs are my two auratus and they have a tiny pond. However, I have never seen them in it and seem happy to just wallow on the condensation and minipools that gather on leaves or on the glass.

My first few vivs all had water features and that was simply for aesthetic reasons. I no longer use water features because I feel I can create an even better visual effect (imo) with flora instead.


----------



## Conman3880 (Jul 8, 2007)

I have ponds just in case my frogs ever have eggs that I miss. Then I can always extract tads from it later.

Waterfalls in your pond will increase humidity & air circulation a great deal, so if you have waterfalls that's just another good reason to have a pond.


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

all pics taken today one after another 
leuc adult 








new river tinc








baby leucs








these were just the ones at the water that didnt scatter once i opened the cage, they must like the look of the water i geuss 
craig


----------



## jdogfunk99 (Oct 16, 2007)

Any benefit to having a pond besides visually? What's wrong with having it just for visual effect? For many of us, these tanks are for appearance as well as for keeping PDF"s. Otherwise, I could put my PDF in a tupperware container. The more you can mimic nature, the better.


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

jdogfunk99 said:


> Any benefit to having a pond besides visually? What's wrong with having it just for visual effect? For many of us, these tanks are for appearance as well as for keeping PDF"s. Otherwise, I could put my PDF in a tupperware container. The more you can mimic nature, the better.


benifits hmm
in my opinion most male darts i have seen breed tend to soak before they call or during the mating dance.
it acts like a bioligical filter system
it acts as insurance to keep my frogs hydrated should i fail at it or be caught away

food for thought frog names new river tinc , salt creek pum , man creek pums , Cayo de Aqua
Bastimentos, Red Frog Beach,Popa Wilson Creek,Uyama River,Robalo River,Bisira River pums 
any one else see what all these names have in common?
craig 
ps i like water areas can you tell? lol but to each there own as long as the frogs need are met im cool with it.


----------



## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm repeating some of what others have said, so just to add another supporting opinion, I have small ponds in all my vivs usually in the front. The ponds serve as convenient water reserves to help the frogs regulate their moisture levels. I've observed both males and females sitting in them during mating periods as well. The ponds also serve as deposition sites. I don't pull all eggs and also like having the frogs complete the cycle on their own, at least a couple times anyway. Some species raise their offspring better then I can, and I've had good luck with those, letting them deposit the tads and then going in and pulling the tads from the pond. It's also cool to look into a tank and see the whole process, frogs and tads at the same time. 
A pond in the front also provides an additional barrier toward helping to prevent FF escapes, on my front opening tanks.


----------



## nawth21 (Apr 17, 2008)

Are you finding that cork works well as the shore area? I'm still deciding on how I'm going to do my pond 8)


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

i love the cork bark for a somewhat natural looking transition.holds water well but has to be cut almost perfect or sealed bottom and sides with silicone or tads get under it, then its a major pain digging up soil and hydrtron to get at a newly morphed traped frog .
craig


----------



## zaroba (Apr 8, 2006)

haven't had frogs long enough to provide any good input, but i can say my two leucs can often be found hanging out around the stream or on the back of the tank on a ledge over the pond. have yet to see them on the floor of the tank near the pond, or even near the water falls.


----------



## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

somecanadianguy:
Love the transition from the water to land, one of the best I've seen. The leca is a bit deep for my taste, but it does allow the pond to be a little deeper without soaking your land, so I guess that's a tradeoff... How tight does your cork fit to the sides? Do your frogs ever try to get under/around it? Also, is that java moss growing up on the branch in the back-center?
Sorry for all the questions  beautiful tank though!


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

tkromer said:


> somecanadianguy:
> Love the transition from the water to land, one of the best I've seen. The leca is a bit deep for my taste, but it does allow the pond to be a little deeper without soaking your land, so I guess that's a tradeoff... How tight does your cork fit to the sides? Do your frogs ever try to get under/around it? Also, is that java moss growing up on the branch in the back-center?
> Sorry for all the questions  beautiful tank though!


1 thank you 
2 its not leca its a hydroponic expanded clay pellet called hydrotron 
3 i cut the cork a little at a time then jam it in place it has to be very tight or tads can and will get traped , i recomend any thing bigger than 1/16 of an inch gets siliconed.that tank houses tinc alanis and i remove the eggs 
4 in that tank i havent had a prob , but in other tanks i rushed it was an issue , had an arautus fully morph before i seen him , when i removed him by ripping it apart found 2 i didnt see that had died , hence the 1/16 rule.
thats why i really jam it in place .
5 no that was a local moss i found a few years ago , unlike most others it hasnt died off yet so i havent borthered to replace it , daddy love to sleep in it.
i do use java , flame moss and a taiwan moss all are aqurium mosses as well as a neat unidentifed tropical one in other tanks.

no probs on question at all and thank you again 
craig


----------



## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

I don't think it should be as cut and dry as, should you have it or not. Under certain circumstances I would say no for sure, in others, it is really personal preference. One thing that concerns me is the amount of people who want a pond and a waterfall in a 10 or 20 vert. This can reall eat up your ploor space for the frogs. On the other hand, I have seen some amazing tanks with water features and other tanks wher the frogs use them to raise their young. I would consider doing one in a larger tank, In fact I may do one soon in a 50 gallon, but it would be small 3"x6" maybe, just to allow a place to soak or deposite tads. Are they needed though? No. A small water dish or other item such as seed pods can provide soak spots and even tad deposite locations. I would strongly caution against ponds and waterfalls in small tanks personally unless they were very small, just too much good ground space used in my opinion.


----------



## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

Hydroton is a "brand name" of leca which I believe means lightweight expanded clay aggregate. 
Really good luck that you have temperate (I assume local means Vancouver) moss working well in your tank. It is really rainy up there, but it's not warm year round like your tank is. 
The moss looks really similar to java moss, but I thought it was the wrong shade of green, very nice


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

excuse the crapy pics tru dirty glass , but it showls the water feature in a 33 gal , i pump water up through the wood it trickles down , moss at very top is flame moss , lower is riccia , moss on ground is unknowned from local brom shop {kinda a trial} java moss is totally taken over on top of hut dont know how it got there lol.

as for a water feature in a 10 or a 20 i vert i would agree way to small of a ground area to start with , i have a 10 ver i built as a toy kinda but houses no frogs just wanna see how it grows, my smallest ver is a few 33s both have a small corner as a water area 3x3x5 mabey 
craig


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

was asked how i do the cork back bottom so ill post a pic hope ya dont mind[attachment=0:3i030mrq]bot.jpg[/attachment:3i030mrq]
i place it where i want it then silicone the back bottom edge to help hold it but mostly seal from tad escapes the sides need to be either great foam as i did with this one or cut to fit very tightly , behind the cork bark i put the leca about 3 inches deep then my coco earth {also use the grow shop stuff a 15 x 15 x 6 inc compressed brick 12 bucks} grotec i belive its brand name 
hope that show it better if not ask away i dont mind 
craig 
ps theres probally betters ways but this works for me


----------



## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

my frogs seem to enjoy taking a dip every once in awhile or sitting on one of my water features.


----------



## kwazarr (Oct 4, 2007)

I definitely agree that in much smaller tanks, adding in a water feature/pond can certainly be problematic, as floor space is at a premium. However, if you have a little more space, I can think of a couple of additional benefits to having one. To those of you who have built your vivs without drainage holes for water, adding in a pond can make for an easy and more attractive looking place from which to siphon off excess water that drains from the soil. If you use a false bottom, like in my Exo 18 cube, you can make it so that the pond water is not separated from that under the false floor, but you can still avoid tadpoles getting under the floor by lining it with acrylic window screening.



















Another added benefit to having a pond, is that the pond water itself can actually act as a temperature buffer in your tank. When the tank starts getting too warm, the water can help cool it down by absorbing the heat, and when it starts getting cold in there, the water can give off stored heat to help regulate the temperature. Now, all that being said, you can still have absolutely no pond/water feature of any kind and still be completely fine...either way, it's all good in my book! Anyways, that's my two cents.

Ross.


----------



## stoph (May 10, 2008)

Water features are good to keep humidity high.
Some frogs frequently go for a dip, also when they are frightened they sometimes dive for cover in the water.
The only downside is the soft humming sound of the pump for water circulation.
But you have that anyway when you work with TL tubes.


----------



## frogsanddogs (Jun 21, 2008)

I use water features both because they look nice and because the waterfall or in some cases more of a dripwall (in smaller tanks where I do not have room for a "pond") really help to increase the humidity. The frogs really seem to like it and are out all the time. The pooling areas or "pond at the bottom of the waterfall" (not really big enough to be considered a pond in many of my tanks as sometimes they are only the size of a small water dish) are very shallow and I have seen many of my frogs climb through them or often up a lower flow water fall with a rocky surface when they are shallower like that. I have only seen one of my frogs in any water deeper than half of her body height and I think her being in it at all has to do with laying eggs.

I have to do much less misting in my tanks with water features- even if the waterfalls or dripwalls are small ones. Especially helps when you go out of town.

I had someone taking care of my frogs unplug one of the waterfalls while I was away... when I returned I re-primed the pump and got the water flowing again (this is even a small waterfall I am speaking of) and the frogs were so happy about having it back up and running it put them into a breeding frenzy laying eggs at least once a week for the month or two after that. I have found them to lay a lot more when it is full and running... perhaps they would lay just as much if I constantly misted the tanks, but I like that this adds a high level of humidity without soaking the tanks and without washing the suppliments off of the fruitflies as I always feel like I have to time my misting perfectly to avoid this. 

I definately think if you enjoy building them and like the way they look, waterfall features can make life easier (after they are built and running of course) for those of us without automated misting systems... but again, I understand it is personal preference and not necessary as I do have one or two tanks without water features, but they are never as humid without heavier misting!... just weighing in with my opinion and another upside of waterfalls


----------



## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

I put a small pond at the front of each viv, mainly so I have easy access to remove water if the level gets too high.

Before I set up the racks in the store, I ripped a bunch of peat bricks at a 45-degree angle on my table saw, then mitered the pieces to fit in the corner.* The result looks like a dirt embankment, but takes up little floor space.

I've also noticed most of my darts will frequent the "embankment," and sometimes dip a toe in the pond. My auratus dive right in.

Jim
*I would recommend doing this outdoors, as the amount of fine brown dust generated is substantial. Also, wear a dust mask. I was blowing brown snot out of my nose for two days after.


----------



## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

jehitch said:


> I put a small pond at the front of each viv, mainly so I have easy access to remove water if the level gets too high.
> 
> Before I set up the racks in the store, I ripped a bunch of peat bricks at a 45-degree angle on my table saw, then mitered the pieces to fit in the corner.* The result looks like a dirt embankment, but takes up little floor space.
> 
> ...


Do you have any pictures of this, for whatever reason I cant picture how you did this in my mind. Otherwise Ill just use it as an excuse to come check out the store sooner...


----------



## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

Here's a couple shots, but from my crested gecko viv (glass was clean enough to shoot through). This one has a bigger open water area than most of the dart vivs, which usually just have a small area of water.
But, feel free to visit the store anyway 




















therizman2 said:


> Do you have any pictures of this, for whatever reason I cant picture how you did this in my mind. Otherwise Ill just use it as an excuse to come check out the store sooner...


----------



## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

therizman2 said:


> Do you have any pictures of this, for whatever reason I cant picture how you did this in my mind. Otherwise Ill just use it as an excuse to come check out the store sooner...


In rereading your post, I hope you were trying to picture how I did the water feature, and not the brown snot ...
Jim


----------



## super7 (Oct 27, 2008)

jehitch
is that riccia in the tank, if not what type is it.
Thanks Super7


----------



## Vinicam (Sep 13, 2008)

super7 said:


> jehitch
> is that riccia in the tank, if not what type is it.
> Thanks Super7


I want to know that too..


----------



## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

super7 said:


> jehitch
> is that riccia in the tank, if not what type is it.
> Thanks Super7


Sorry for the delay, I didn't get an email notice that there had been a reply.

It's dicranium pillow moss. It grows great near water, and likes to be damp, but not submerged. It's available here

Jim


----------



## xm41907 (Nov 26, 2007)

Here is a picture of my viv pond. I've had trouble keeping the aquatic plants alive. They just keep dying on me. I would love to have it covered in duckweed.


----------



## Brock (Jun 29, 2007)

Is there a way to keep duckweed and other aquatic plants alive in frog vivs? I can never keep them going either.


----------



## mkeBob (May 22, 2008)

Brock, all you should need to keep duck weed alive is a lot of light. I have it in a 40 gallon breeder tank with four 26 watt daylight CF's about 12" above the tank. It grows so fast that I have to remove some of it every few weeks. It's also growing up the low sloping bank on top of the moss, thanks to my azureus draging it from the water. BTW, they've raised six tads to froglets using the pond which is about 8" x 12" and about 1-1/2" deep.


----------



## mellowvision (Feb 6, 2009)

duckweed needs almost nothing to grow. It's impossible to kill. if it's actually dying on you, it's possible your water quality is low. if it's just not spreading, it wants more light.


----------



## mellowvision (Feb 6, 2009)

oh, and I like ponds, but don't have additional reasons that haven't been posted


----------

