# Spindle Leg Syndrome- what is looks like



## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

I wasn't to sure if this belongs in Members Frogs of here in the Health section. But I thought if there were people who have never seen SLS and wanted to know what it loked like, here is a pic of one of my poor little Vitattus. I have 3 tads and all three have SLS. This little guy is the closest to fully morphed. One of the others will have no front legs at all, the third only has one leg. I guess I will be going to Walgreens tomorrow to get some Oragel. Breaks my heart!!!


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Sucks huh. Sorry but what do think you could have done to prevent it. I understand it takes effort but.... details, specifics.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Stchupa,

Please check out the thead listed below. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sc&start=0


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Well I did, and there didn't seem to be any concrete conclusion, but of course there never should be, to many possible variables to consider.
It's usually a collaberation of contamination with more commonly inorganics.

Any particular thing I should've looked for?

Why did you feel I needed to check it out and not dragon frog?

What's your position on elastomers from petrol products?
Kevin swears by it and I'm quite sure myself.
I would say for long term success wheaton/good old mason jars are probably the best option. 
Also I'm with you when it comes to sterile set ups. I'm absolutely convinced on the rare/never change algae/java method, by far surpasses any other in creating a quality captive. Sterile inclosures are way to unstable for my liking. If one microorg establishes itself (seems most common to be fungus) there's nothing to conteract its over expansion and keep it in check. There should always be a good balance of creatures in the water. If it wasn't for daphnia, +, for sure I'd have trouble.
Plus the small amount of salt build up over time from the spirulina seems to help the future generations along, after the first tads. Seems like it anyway, but then again I can't attribute that success to one variable, probably also due to a multitude of buildups of minerals ect. Just like with SLS.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "Well I did, and there didn't seem to be any concrete conclusion, but of course there never should be, to many possible variables to consider. “endsnip 

The concrete conclusions are as follows
1) It is a syndrome as there are multiple different disorders that present the same condition
2) In many of cases, it is nutritionally based as opposed to environmental or genetic based 

The Baltimore Zoo did a study which wasn’t published) that showed that in their study SLS was 100% linked to the nutritional status of the adults. However since that time there has been documentation showing that some of the cases can be enviromental such too warm or too cool (which appears to be species specific) of a temperature. 


snip “It's usually a collaberation of contamination with more commonly inorganics. “endsnip 

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that this is due to a synergistic effect with pollutants. This in general has not been supported either in the few studies done on SLS or the majority of anecdotal reports. See below for more comments. 

snip “Why did you feel I needed to check it out and not dragon frog? “endsnip 

He was not asking as to possible causes/cures and was posting a picture so other people could see what an SLS affected froglet looks like. 

snip “What's your position on elastomers from petrol products? “endsnip

If I understand you correctly… Elastomers are pretty much confined to rubber sources and petrol derived elastomers would imply artificial rubber products. These products with very few exceptions should not be a problem as they shouldn’t be in contact with the tadpoles or their water. The few exceptions are gaskets that are found in spigots and filters. If these are a concern, run the water for 5 minutes or so to flush the line clean. If you are referring to plastic polymers, there have been the occasional anecdotal report of SLS going away when plastic containers are no longer used but the frequency of this is very small when compared to the number of cases that are caused by a lack in some nutrient. 

snip “I would say for long term success wheaton/good old mason jars are probably the best option. “endsnip

If there are concerns about plastics leaching materials into the water then glass is a good standby however people often do use plastic containers with good success. At work I have used plastic yogurt containers and small plastic aquaria with excellent success. In general, if you soak most food grade plastics for a week or two in an acidic solution, (such as a weak vinegar solution) this will remove most items that may leach from the plastic. 

snip “Also I'm with you when it comes to sterile set ups. I'm absolutely convinced on the rare/never change algae/java method, by far surpasses any other in creating a quality captive. Sterile inclosures are way to unstable for my liking. If one microorg establishes itself (seems most common to be fungus) there's nothing to conteract its over expansion and keep it in check. “endsnip 

The problem isn’t with one organism taking over but the stress that the tadpole may undergo if the container has a small volume of water and the bacteria needed to process the waste haven’t become established in it yet. This can immunosuppress the tadpole allowing infection by opportunistic pathogens.

snip “There should always be a good balance of creatures in the water. If it wasn't for daphnia, +, for sure I'd have trouble. “ensnip 

Daphnia are used as water quality indicators. If the water is of poor quality then the daphnia will die off. 

Ed


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

So Ed, for those of us who are not doctors, lawyers or scientists, could you please put it in very simple laymans terms; what are the things that a person can do to help eleviate the SLS problem. What I have been reading is very confusing. Maybe it is just sensory overload with too much info. What are the answers, and please no big words :?


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

I think what Ed is trying to say is that SLS can be caused by different things. The most common cause seems to be the parents' diet. Temperature may also be a factor in some cases. Also, it doesn't appear that keeping Tads in plastic containers will cause SLS.

Ed, i'm curious what the researchers at the Baltimre Zoo were feeding their study animals before and after the SLS problems? What supplements? I know you said it wasn't published but is there anywhere one could read the study?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When they laid off the staff that was involved with the studies, all of that data went away too so I cannot access the direct study and can only relate what the staff there at the time had to say about it. 

And that was a good translation of the "jargon". 

Ed


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