# Hydroton or False Bottom?



## Ann_A (Feb 28, 2011)

I am working on planning my first viv, and was wondering if I should use a false bottom or hydroton clay. The viv will be in an Exo-Terra 18"x18"x24" terrarium. I plan on having a waterfall that is pumped through a tube that is hidden in the background, and then on down to either a small pool area, or some sort of drainage point, where it goes back through the drainage layer, and to the pump (sorry it isn't a very clear explanation, but I'm in a hurry). I might be using Exo-Terra plantation soil, with some coco-fiber or tree fern mixed in. Thank you in advance for any advice!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

false bottom. I like it SO much more than using LECA. LECA will wick water up into your substrate to a certain degree, a false bottom will provide much better drainage for your substrate. And its lighter, if you ever have to move your viv


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I like both, but, I think for a tank with a waterfall, a false bottom may make things easier. Looking forward to pics of your tank


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

frogparty said:


> And its lighter, if you ever have to move your viv


That's exactly the reason I a regret using leca. I am going to be moving in December and my 18" exo terra with a leca layer and clay background is going to be one of the hardest things to move. I'm probably going to need to take it apart and replace the leca with a false bottom and pull out the clay in lieu of a lighter background. I wish I'd realized how much weight I was really putting inside there when I set it up...


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

False bottom all the way. Hydroton balls are possibly the most unnatural looking things ever if they arent hidden.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

The weight in an 18x18x24 isn't going to be significant, but since you are creating a water feature I would go with a false bottom for easier access to the pump. Also, Exo Terra plantation soil is coco fiber, that is just their brand name for it. You should definitely mix in some additives like tree fern and charcoal to promote drainage and aeration, straight coco fiber will hold too much water.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

I say LECA. It's easier and looks better in my opinion. False bottoms have their advantages too though.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

False bottoms and LECA both look ugly if you don't hide them. Some great advice given by the above posts. False bottom all the way for the above mentioned reasons.
In my opinion, they ONLY advantage LECA has is that it's easy.


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## Ann_A (Feb 28, 2011)

Tony said:


> ...Also, Exo Terra plantation soil is coco fiber, that is just their brand name for it. You should definitely mix in some additives like tree fern and charcoal to promote drainage and aeration, straight coco fiber will hold too much water.


Sorry, I meant to say Tree-Fern Fiber and possibly some orchid bark. Thanks for the info on their soil.

Well, it looks like I will be using a false bottom, especially since my family has moved around a lot, and I doubt we will be in one place for more than a few years. Another question I had was whether or not I would need to run a filter of some type on the pool area, if I do one? If so, should I use like a canister filter, or a sump, or even something else. Thanks!


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## BBJ (Feb 26, 2010)

GRIMM said:


> False bottom all the way. Hydroton balls are possibly the most unnatural looking things ever if they arent hidden.


I would argue though that a plastic false bottom looks even more unnatural if not hidden as well 

Regarding the weight issues, i dont know what kind of Leca you are using but Leca weighs next to nothing and surely does not add that much weight to the viv.

I can appreciate the advantages of a false bottom holding more water though, and not wicking any water into the substrate.

As with most things there are pros and cons to each


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Leca, 

its easy, more natural looking than a false bottom, not heavy at all, and quick to install.


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## stevendart14 (Feb 21, 2005)

Im having the same problem but with lava rocks. I made up my mind with the false bottom but reading these post I might do the lava rock for filteration reasons. The weight was a concern for me too but ill just hire someone to haul it out. You cant go wrong with a canister or a sump for filteration and either one can be used to run your waterfall


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## Ann_A (Feb 28, 2011)

Well, after doing a bit more planning and some reading up on what people prefer, I've decided I'm not going to have any water features. I'm just going to do a nice landscape and background with lots of plants, and a misting system and call it good. Should I still use a false bottom, but at a lower level, like maybe 1"? I could have a drainage system that is just a simple drilled hole, a bulkhead, and some tubing that runs to a drain.


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## yomamafat (Jun 16, 2010)

I use LECA and I have my tanks drilled to drain the water resevoir at the bottom. I think that either one is fine and can support an evaporative water table to keep the humidity up. I don't mind that the LECA causes the water to wick through the substrate, but that should be a consideration for what substrate to choose. I choose clay substrate with LECA because I know that organic substrates tend to hold more water and may cause issues for some plants. The humid/wet but not drenching wet environment also helps with reproducing the microfauna in the tank. I do have a good amount of leaf litter added to the top layer of substrate as well as springtail/isopod medium on top of that - so planning on how you layer your substrate will depend on what you pick as your foundation. There is often no right answer here so I'm just sharing my experience. If you can afford to with time and money just experiment with what works for you. Happy frogging!


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I like false bottoms much easier to hide just make it so there is about an inch gap from the false bottom to the bottom front panel and add some river rock or pebbles. Then all you see is the rocks/pebbles and can still see the water level in the false bottom. But in the end is is all a personal choice.


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## krhody (Feb 25, 2011)

As above the false bottom would likely work best with what you have planned.
I use false bottoms on all my setups that have water features of any sort.


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

I read with a lot a of you though this thread, went with false bottoms. I went with hydros, top with Brent's clay media mix, and leaf litter.With a drilled bottom and reservoir, with circulating pump,over a drip wall because;
1. Hydros are very light. Not much weight added to my vivarium. in chase I have to move it.
2.Hydros are very porous, so very bacteria friendly,Aid in breaking down waste, build up in my tank.
Sure you can do the same thing with lava stones, but that's added weight.


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## Ann_A (Feb 28, 2011)

What if I used a false bottom that was 2.5" high, and a 1" layer of Leca underneath the false bottom? I would then make a small compartment out of egg crate, covered in screen, which would house the pump for my waterfall. The purpose of the Leca underneath the false bottom would be to provide a place for beneficial bacteria to live. Lastly, does anyone have any suggestions as to what pump I should use for a small waterfall? I was looking at the Reptiflow 200 or 250, but I've found a few people who don't like them. Are the Minijet 404 or 606 models any good? Any other suggestions are welcome! Thank you!


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## krhody (Feb 25, 2011)

That could work too.
Would cut down on water weight as well.


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## mickipedic (May 20, 2010)

The surface area on the LECA would be good for beneficial bacteria growth, but most of your beneficial bacteria will be in the substrate itself. I have LECA in my tanks now, but if I ever make a tank with a water feature I'll be switching to false bottom.

It seems as though you've abandoned the idea of the waterfall (a good move for your first tank), so I'd suggest making sure you focus on the substrate. I swear by the ABG mix, as do many others on this board. You can find the recipe in the threads or just order it from a supplier. I suggest joshsfrogs.com- he's a sponsor of Dendroboard and has reasonable prices with the best customer service possible.


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

Azurel said:


> I like false bottoms much easier to hide just make it so there is about an inch gap from the false bottom to the bottom front panel and add some river rock or pebbles. Then all you see is the rocks/pebbles and can still see the water level in the false bottom. But in the end is is all a personal choice.


I do exactly this also. I have a smaller gap around 1/2-3/4" This method was pointed to me by GRIMM. I have both types. I will utilize eggcrate/false bottoms from now on due to ease of being universal and having weight reductions.


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## Ann_A (Feb 28, 2011)

I would still like to have a waterfall, but if it would be better not to have it on my first viv for experience purposes, and/or for the benefit of my frogs, then I guess I won't have it. So now I'm thinking of having a 1" high false bottom, and having a small drainage line connected to the back (it would be a drilled hole with a bulkhead and tubing running to a drain). I plan on painting the tank black on the outside, up to the height of the false bottom, though I will leave a small strip off to the side that is unpainted so I can see how much water is in there. I would probably put a little bit of aquarium gravel on top of the screen (over the egg crate false bottom), then my substrate would be over the gravel. I can't wait to get my viv going, but I'm a little short on funds, and seeing as my parents don't want to contribute except for on my birthday or for Christmas, I won't be getting it up and running for probably a month or two. Well, until then, thanks for the advice!


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

Pumilo said:


> False bottoms and LECA both look ugly if you don't hide them. Some great advice given by the above posts. False bottom all the way for the above mentioned reasons.
> In my opinion, they ONLY advantage LECA has is that it's easy.


I agree with most of the posts above. There is one very best aspect of LECA that most folks overlook. Bio-filtration. One of the largest draw backs to using false bottoms is that they produce very little bio-filtration.

The purpose of biofiltration is to help maintain water quality and tank health. There are many different methods of maintaining good water quality and biofiltration is only one component of the total picture. It is, however a very important and essential component especially for recirculating systems such as waterfalls and streams.

Biofiltration has the ability to accomplish the following functions.


Convert ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates and finally to nitrogen gas.
Remove BOD or Biological Oxygen Demand
Add oxygen
Remove carbon dioxide
Remove excess nitrogen and other inert gasses
Remove turbidity and clarify the water
Remove various organic contaminants
 


There are lots of ways to get decent bio-filtration and most aquaculture bio-filter systems are designed for the purpose of converting and removing ammonia and nitrites from the system. The other processes listed above may or may not occur depending on the design and operation of the filter and the rest of the system in your tank.

In order to get decent bio-filtration, there needs to be a large amount of surface area. This is where the false bottom system fails miserably. There is practically 0% of surface area within the water, the glass bottom and sides are it.

But there are may ways to get a large surface area into the flowing water of waterfall / stream system.



The following can be used without a false bottom suspension system. They are strong enough to support the weight of the living area above.



*Bio-Filtration without the need of a false bottom:
*
Round River Rock. 3/4 inch minus. This means that the rock is 3/4 of an inch in diameter or smaller. This is very heavy but is very inexpensive. It typically doesn't wick moisture into the soil above.


Bioballs found in the aquarium trade and it works well, being light and they don't wick moisture like LECA can. The only draw back is that they are expensive. 


LECA is lighter then gravel but is still considered heavy. It can wick moisture, and it can be expensive.



*
DYI Bio-Filter Medium for use with a False Bottom System: *

These systems would need a false bottom system in order to support the living environ above.



Cut up 1/2" PVC or CPVC rings : This still provides a fairly low amount of surface area. There is a lot of work required to cut out enough pieces to fill the false bottom area. (Cheap, pretty light, lots of work, less surface area.)


Cut up drinking straws : More surface area than CPVC rings. Less work than CPVC rings. (Cheap, very light, very easy, less surface area.)


Non Bio-degradeable Foam Packing Noodles : There is hardly any work involved. Test them by soaking them for a while. Many of the newer packing peanuts are designed to break down in the presence of water. I read that these were used by the New York Zoo on their octopus tank as submersed media. (Cheap, very light, very easy.)


Plastic Milk Jugs: Cut up plastic milk jugs, not the label section, cut the jugs into 1" x 1" square pieces. I would think you might be able to use a large paper cutter to speed up the cutting process of the jugs. Put the squares into a blender with a cup of water. Run the blender for a little while to get nicely shredded pieces of plastic which have a great deal of surface area. (Cheap, very light, fairly easy, lots of surface area.)


Plastic Shot Gun Wadding. An interesting filtration product being used in the aquarium trade, is the plastic wadding used in loading shot gun shells. (Somewhat cheap and very light).


Plastic Easter Basket Grass. (Cheap, very light, very easy).


If you are running a drip wall you don't really need to add a bio-filter medium, but it can't, won't hurt a thing having it.


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