# Mix Red Eye Tree Frogs with Tincs?



## Averhoeven (Jul 11, 2010)

I know that it's generally frowned upon to mix species, but this is usually to prevent inter-breeding. There's no way Tincs and RETFs would interbreed. Their habitats are similar, they would use completely different parts of the terrarium, the tincs are big enough I don't think the RETFs could eat them, etc. Is there any reason I can't put a pair of tincs in my RETF cage?


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

Darts in general require higher humidity than the red eyes and the red eyes will require more airflow than most of the stagnant air setups of darts. Also the crickets for the red eyes could feed upon the darts as they sleep. So it's best to keep them separate.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

You really should do a search on mixing before posting. Posts on mixing will NEVER be met with open arms here. You are trying to mix frogs that have different requirements. Besides the fact that you will be exposing both sets of frogs to possible diseases and "bugs" that they have absolutely no natural defense against.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

The higher humidity of a tinc tank would become a problem for your redeyes (a bacterial infection most likely). I have my redeye in with other conspecifics like Phyllomedusa tomopterna and Dendropsophus marmoratus (all c.b. by the same breeder). If you feel that you have to mix, keeping it to similar species will be much easier. Not only will you have better luck, your animals will be much happier!


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

Assuming both sets of frogs are CB you shouldn't see any real problems. I keep Black Eye Tree Frogs in a mixed tank with my Citronellas, Orange Terribs and Super Tiger Leg tree frogs and the only problems I have seen have been as follows:

1) The heavier weight of the black eyes tends to crush many plants
2) Unless I feed crickets right before the lights go out the Terribs tend to consume all the crickets meant for the tree frogs.

I would agree with the statement that red eyes probably do need more ventilation so I would recommend leaving a portion of the top screen if you choose to go this route.


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## rob65 (Aug 27, 2009)

I KEEP BOTH TYPES OF FROGS AND I WOULD NEVER NOR WOULD I EVER RECOMMEND TO ANYONE TO KEEP BOTH SPECIES TOGETHER!!! THEY ARE NOT ALIKE IN ANY WAYS!!! NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

rob65 said:


> I KEEP BOTH TYPES OF FROGS AND I WOULD NEVER NOR WOULD I EVER RECOMMEND TO ANYONE TO KEEP BOTH SPECIES TOGETHER!!! THEY ARE NOT ALIKE IN ANY WAYS!!! NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!


Is there a particular level of personal experience you would base that statement on? The fact that they are no alike in any way would actually be beneficial since they wouldn't compete for space, food or any other resources. In fact with the dart being durinal and the tree frogs being nocturnal their paths wouldn't even cross except in rare instances.


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## Averhoeven (Jul 11, 2010)

mantisdragon91 said:


> Is there a particular level of personal experience you would base that statement on? The fact that they are no alike in any way would actually be beneficial since they wouldn't compete for space, food or any other resources. In fact with the dart being durinal and the tree frogs being nocturnal their paths wouldn't even cross except in rare instances.


See... this kind of thinking is where I am. All the other posts so far seem to be gut reaction "don't mix them" without really giving me great reasons why. The tincs
Already have their own cage and have for a year. I was just thinking the environments are similar, the cage is bigger, there would be minimal competition for space or food and it might be neat. I was looking for whether there were any logical REASONS why I couldn't, not just all caps postings that say "i would never" without an explanation.

I acknowledge that 2 of the posts have given hints of reasons that I am considering. It was purely a planning question. There is a ton of knowledge and experience here that I was hoping to invoke.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

mantisdragon91 said:


> Is there a particular level of personal experience you would base that statement on? The fact that they are no alike in any way would actually be beneficial since they wouldn't compete for space, food or any other resources. In fact with the dart being durinal and the tree frogs being nocturnal their paths wouldn't even cross except in rare instances.


My major concerns would be the red eyes need for ventilation conflicting with the tinc's need for humidity, and the crickets for the red eyes stressing out the tincs. I could see it possibly working out if the tank was large enough to create the appropriate microclimates and the red eyes were trained to bowl feed, but it seems to me that a small hylid like D. ebraccatus would be a better choice to try with darts.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Averhoeven said:


> See... this kind of thinking is where I am. All the other posts so far seem to be gut reaction "don't mix them" without really giving me great reasons why. The tincs
> Already have their own cage and have for a year. I was just thinking the environments are similar, the cage is bigger, there would be minimal competition for space or food and it might be neat. I was looking for whether there were any logical REASONS why I couldn't, not just all caps postings that say "i would never" without an explanation.
> 
> I acknowledge that 2 of the posts have given hints of reasons that I am considering. It was purely a planning question. There is a ton of knowledge and experience here that I was hoping to invoke.


Here is a reason, don't RETF's eat quite large crickets? I'm asking because I don't keep tree frogs, but am pretty sure they eat decent size crickets. Well tincs can't eat the size of food that tree frogs eat. So the crickets could possibly hurt the tincs..


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Tony said:


> My major concerns would be the red eyes need for ventilation conflicting with the tinc's need for humidity, and the crickets for the red eyes stressing out the tincs. I could see it possibly working out if the tank was large enough to create the appropriate microclimates and the red eyes were trained to bowl feed, but it seems to me that a small hylid like D. ebraccatus would be a better choice to try with darts.


Shoot sorry Tony, I didn't see you already talked about crickets in your post until I posted mine.


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

Tony said:


> My major concerns would be the red eyes need for ventilation conflicting with the tinc's need for humidity, and the crickets for the red eyes stressing out the tincs. I could see it possibly working out if the tank was large enough to create the appropriate microclimates and the red eyes were trained to bowl feed, but it seems to me that a small hylid like D. ebraccatus would be a better choice to try with darts.


If the tanks has a height of at least 2' you can create microclimates where there would be a fair bit of ventilation at the top but more humidity at the bottom. I actually believe that we tend to keep darts more humid than they would see in nature on a year round basis so more ventilation may actually be of benefit.

As for the criket issue that could be a potential danger but in a well planted tank the crikets aren't likely to bother the darts although the plants could well take a beating. Most issue I have seen or heard about with crickets nibbling on frogs or lizards have been in tank with little or no vegetation, where starving and dehydrated crickets had nothing else to turn to for food and moisture.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

First-- put your hardhat on because mixing threads always cause explosions here.

I knew someone with a 125 gallon vivarium with a mixed morph group of auratus (he never bred them though, only for display) and a female RETF. He gave the RETF prekilled crickets fed on forceps. I don't have as much of a concern about the crickets as I do if the tincs would bother the RETF during the daytime. Tincs I have owned DO like to climb, and I can see a RETF getting pretty irritated from tincs' hyperactive antics. 

About humidity, I'm getting to the point where I ventilate my dart frogs more than was ever recommended when this hobby was "younger" based on personal experiences and reading current information. 

While I personally do not mix frogs, I know several experienced hobbyists (notice, I said EXPERIENCED) that do it successfully. I'm not trying to be rude to the OP, but to be blunt and honest-- usually if you're asking if you can mix x with y, you haven't had enough experience with either x or y to make the decision. I even asked questions like this myself on here long ago.

They're your frogs, not mine.


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## Averhoeven (Jul 11, 2010)

If it helps, the tank is a 47g column paludarium that I am constructing for the retfs. The fact that there is about 7" of water beneath the elevated land area makes me think there would be significant variation in humidity top to bottom. Like I said, just thought it would make for a more interesting tank having critters that are active on different cycles.

As for the crickets, it is something I hadn't thought of and is a good example of why I'm asking. Constructive feedback is helpful. Asking questions and asking people to defend their answers instead of just taking it on faith helps everyone learn. This forces us to give solid reasoning to our assumptions which may show exactly how right, or wrong, they are.

I realize there's thread after thread about mixing... I've read them. I was trying to think out loud sharing my thoughts and have them bounced off people with additional experience. That's the benefits of forums like this in theory... in practice there's often a huge amount of groupthink going on. I REALLY noticed this on the reef forums I used to frequent back in my reefing days.


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## Jarhead_2016 (Jan 7, 2010)

imo another problem is if you start off with larger RETF's and smaller Tincs couldnt the RETF's predate on the Tincs i know some tree frogs in the wild predate on other tree frogs and other frogs in geneeral
-scotty


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

I have a big RETF. She is about 3.5 inches and if you determine food size by the space between her eyes, most small darts are definitely prey. They also don't like to be disturbed while they sleep, they get jumpy and they jump along way. Mine like to sleep in the open too so they would be vulnerable to daytime activity. It would be interesting to set up an environment where you would have an ecosystem. You could construct a jungle with snakes and ants and mosquitos and real fruit flies and monkeys and maybe a jaguar. Maybe safer to visit and bring back pictures....


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I think already by saying there's 7" of water at the bottom that its not suited for tincs. While mine do climb frequently, they still prefer more terrestrial space and a tall tank with a big pond wouldn't be to their liking.

What about putting tropical fish in the pond area instead? I don't know if the RETF would eat them or not, depending on what you put in, but it'd probably be a safer idea compared to a tinctorius.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Rain_Frog said:


> I think already by saying there's 7" of water at the bottom that its not suited for tincs. While mine do climb frequently, they still prefer more terrestrial space and a tall tank with a big pond wouldn't be to their liking.
> 
> What about putting tropical fish in the pond area instead? I don't know if the RETF would eat them or not, depending on what you put in, but it'd probably be a safer idea compared to a tinctorius.


That sounds like a really good idea. I would also suggest this. It could end up looking pretty nice! And you wouldn't have to worry about any of those possible problems with tincs and RETFs together.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Small fish will work well with the redeyes. I think you can be pretty sure (I know thats an oxymoron) that the frogs won't eat your fish. I used to have zebra danios in the pond portion of a Polypedates dennysi tank and they were quite useful. They kept the water pretty clean and the dennysi's (which are much more aggressive feeders than redeyes) never messed with them. There are bunches of tropical fish that would work, white clouds, guppies, danios, even rasboras. Also, the redeyes shouldn't produce any skin secretions that would hurt the fish, which is a problem with people who put fish in with Bombina species. I also had some goldfish in with my common snapping turtle, they were supposed to be food but they turned into janitors, worked out great. @Averhoeven: I know this is divergent from your original idea, but it should work and might be pretty cool.


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## Averhoeven (Jul 11, 2010)

I was already planning on having a school of neon tetras in the water portion. It's not so much a pond as a 12g "tank". The land portion is on stilts that sits above the water portion with a small opening towards the front of the tank.


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Small fish will work well with the redeyes. I think you can be pretty sure (I know thats an oxymoron) that the frogs won't eat your fish. I used to have zebra danios in the pond portion of a Polypedates dennysi tank and they were quite useful. They kept the water pretty clean and the dennysi's (which are much more aggressive feeders than redeyes) never messed with them. There are bunches of tropical fish that would work, white clouds, guppies, danios, even rasboras. Also, the redeyes shouldn't produce any skin secretions that would hurt the fish, which is a problem with people who put fish in with Bombina species. I also had some goldfish in with my common snapping turtle, they were supposed to be food but they turned into janitors, worked out great. @Averhoeven: I know this is divergent from your original idea, but it should work and might be pretty cool.


Just a thought. Many tropical fish commonly available in pet stores are bred in very unsanitary conditions in large industrial farms in the Far East. They come in with a myriad of health problems and can be a possible vector of disease to amhibians that have access to the same water as they do. Has anyone considered this posibility when recommending fish as possible companion animals. My suspiscion is that they would actually be worse as disease vectors than cb frogs recieved from a reliable source.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

I didn't even think to include anything about disease transmission. Yes the SE Asian fish farms can be really disgusting, but many are actually pretty high tech (excluding the Tilapia farms, google it if you wanna be grossed out). The zebras I used were healthy ones that I had already had for 6-8 months. I think it would be a good idea to keep any fish in a q tank for at least a couple of weeks, especially neons which can be wc.


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## rob65 (Aug 27, 2009)

First off let me say I am sorry...I did not realize my caps lock was on until I posted my message.
Yes I have had experience with keeping smaller daytime living frogs with my red eye tree frogs. It has never worked out! Like it has been posted here they do love their peace and quiet during the day and do not like to be bothered. Smaller day loving frogs like darts are exploring all day for food and upset the red eyes. My red eye females as adults like now are a good 3.5 inches and have at night seeked out their food until I started bowl feeding. The crawled into caves and under logs at night chasing crickets and then decided to dine on my tins. Not a problem at all for them to eat a tinc. At one time I even tried to rescue a green sip female bas had no success.
Crickets even if fed well left loose in a terrarium can be vicious to a dart frog at night. I have had them eat my darts legs off before. All this had taken place in a very well planted 120 gallon terrarium.
Humidity and air flow was not such a big factor of not doing it for me. Both types of frogs can adapt to slight variances of each one way or the other.
I hope this helps some. My typing skills suck and I think much faster than my fingers move.
I never meant to offend no one here with what I first posted on this thread. Just some advice.


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## rob65 (Aug 27, 2009)

p.s.
I have had much better luck keeping fish in with my red eyes than I have with any other type of frog. I have never had any of my red eyes try and eat a fish!!!


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## Averhoeven (Jul 11, 2010)

rob65 said:


> First off let me say I am sorry...I did not realize my caps lock was on until I posted my message.
> Yes I have had experience with keeping smaller daytime living frogs with my red eye tree frogs. It has never worked out! Like it has been posted here they do love their peace and quiet during the day and do not like to be bothered. Smaller day loving frogs like darts are exploring all day for food and upset the red eyes. My red eye females as adults like now are a good 3.5 inches and have at night seeked out their food until I started bowl feeding. The crawled into caves and under logs at night chasing crickets and then decided to dine on my tins. Not a problem at all for them to eat a tinc. At one time I even tried to rescue a green sip female bas had no success.
> Crickets even if fed well left loose in a terrarium can be vicious to a dart frog at night. I have had them eat my darts legs off before. All this had taken place in a very well planted 120 gallon terrarium.
> Humidity and air flow was not such a big factor of not doing it for me. Both types of frogs can adapt to slight variances of each one way or the other.
> ...


Thanks. This, combined with the cricket problem, is the kind of feedback I was looking for based on experience and reasoning. The tincs will most likely stay in their own tank (they've liked it for the past year). It would have all been dependent on the final product anyway as I'm not sure how much ground will be left after planting anyway. It was all just theory in case it was feasible as the idea seemed really neat in my mind. 

If nothing else, combining the two to pare down tanks (darts + fish tank gone with shelving to hide the spider) would have simply made the RETF tank more palatable for the lady friend  As always, they tend to be intervening element!

**PS: As you can probably tell from the preceeding line, the tetras have been with me for almost a year at this point. I am simply moving them to clear out a tank so no worries about disease.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Rain_Frog said:


> I think already by saying there's 7" of water at the bottom that its not suited for tincs.


That's more than I would be comfortable with for red eyes too, they are not the strongest swimmers.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Tony said:


> That's more than I would be comfortable with for red eyes too, they are not the strongest swimmers.


I've kept RETFs over deep pools for over 16 years with good longeviity (over 8-9 years for some of the frogs and averaging 6+). They do just fine as long as they can get a grip on the sides to climb out. I have even seen them dive to the bottom and wedge under decorations and hide there for 5 or more minutes before surfacing.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> I've kept RETFs over deep pools for over 16 years with good longeviity (over 8-9 years for some of the frogs and averaging 6+). They do just fine as long as they can get a grip on the sides to climb out. I have even seen them dive to the bottom and wedge under decorations and hide there for 5 or more minutes before surfacing.


Good to know. My observation of red eyes and deep water has been limited to rain chambers, maybe the walls are just too slick in that type of setup.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Tony said:


> Good to know. My observation of red eyes and deep water has been limited to rain chambers, maybe the walls are just too slick in that type of setup.


Were they glass sided?


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> Were they glass sided?


Yes, glass sides with potted plants and 2-3 inches of water at the bottom.


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## Averhoeven (Jul 11, 2010)

It's not a full 7" of water all the way around. The water is mostly completely below the land. Think of it as a really high false bottom.
There is about a 4-5" gap at the front between the front glass and the land so there is some exposed water, but I designed the edges to be easy to get out of with fake tree buttress roots, etc leaving the water. In addition, I want to place some surface plants in that area for both looks and in case.

Here's a quick mock-up where I tossed in the main pieces while the silicone finishes curing to give you a better idea:


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

Rob mentioned "bowl feeding". Is this possible with the RE's? The male in the tank seems more interested in trying to get out of the tank than eating. He is getting pretty thin. He seems kind of dominated by the female.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Freeradical53 said:


> Rob mentioned "bowl feeding". Is this possible with the RE's? The male in the tank seems more interested in trying to get out of the tank than eating. He is getting pretty thin. He seems kind of dominated by the female.


Yes, it is possible and does work well, you just have to monitor it for awhile to make sure that they figure it out. I used a cup like those used to hang in bird cages for seed or water. They will learn to feed out of it and it reduces the number of crickets drowning in the water. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Tony said:


> Yes, glass sides with potted plants and 2-3 inches of water at the bottom.


It is possible that on occasion if they get too panicked they may not get a grip as easily on the glass. When I kept them over water, three of the sides were fiberglass and there was a large branch extending out of the water and they were able to readily get a grip on those items. 

Ed


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> It is possible that on occasion if they get too panicked they may not get a grip as easily on the glass. When I kept them over water, three of the sides were fiberglass and there was a large branch extending out of the water and they were able to readily get a grip on those items.
> 
> Ed


That was the case, if they fell in the water they would swim around in an apparent panic until they found a vine or pot to climb out on, they did not seem to be able to grip the glass when wet.


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## rob65 (Aug 27, 2009)

Freeradical53 said:


> Rob mentioned "bowl feeding". Is this possible with the RE's? The male in the tank seems more interested in trying to get out of the tank than eating. He is getting pretty thin. He seems kind of dominated by the female.


Since I have several Red eyes in one large terrarium I use more than one bowl to feed. I have done this at night of course not much after lights off and they have learned very of this. Usually they are lined up and waiting for me as soon as lights are out ready to feed. With more than one bowls all usually get a share.
Since your male is getting thinner you may want to house him alone temporarily and make sure he is eating or even try feeding him with tongs. Just a suggestion.


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## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

I have a mixed species tank, but I don't have dart frogs in there. Red eyes, several small day geckos, anoles, and a jackson chameleon. All have similar requirements. 
Parasites are not so much of a problem with all CB animals. 

And for the record, I built the tank in 1994. So, It has been running for 17 years. 

And I have had a vert enclosure since 1998 with Auratus and imis. It is 5 feet tall which is why I was comfortable with this decision. And all CB. I would of never considered this 20 years ago, but most of the frogs sold in the early 90s were all WC.


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thks I'll give the feeding dish a try. Not sure how high the sides of the dish needs to be to keep the cricks in but I will experiment. As for separating the little guy, I think he is doing okay, but am watching him closely.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It has to be just high enough that the crickets can jump out on an angle. They can't jump straight up. As I noted I used the seed dishes for parrots. The ones that look something like this Google Image Result for http://cockatielbirdcage.com/images/e/380097553089_0.jpg


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## Enavas (May 21, 2004)

I use to keep a group of RETF with my leuc. They were in at vert. I put the crickets for the red eyes in tall plastic see through cups and feed the leuc with fruit flies. It was a custom build viv so the top 1/4th was screen and bottom was a water feature area i filled with cherry shrimp. It worked really well for the frogs and shrimps. I had a small ficus tree and some bambo in there where the red eyes sleep. I no longer have this because i moved and sold them all. just want to let you guys know that it can be done.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

The red eyes are larger and will try to eat the darts


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I remeber you....you are the 45gal column tank person....
That tank is too small for 4 red eyes...
Your background is taking up way too much space and you're losing space for them.
I'd cut that tree part in half (lenghtways) and bring it back some to create more space.
Also you don't have much land...if you slim the tree down I'd put my land in front of it.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> The red eyes are larger and will try to eat the darts


 
Most anurans are actually able to identify things that will fit into thier mouth pretty well (there are some exceptions) unless they are conditioned to automatically respond with a feeding response to a stimulus (for example I conditioned a blind grey treefrog to grab what ever touched it's leg, so you could get it to grab your finger). So the argument based simply on size doesn't hold a lot of weight unless the frog can actually ingest the other frog.... A red eye is not going to be able to ingest a tinctorius (maybe a new out of the water metamorph but not an adult). So it helps if you make a point instead of simply throwing stuff out there. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I remeber you....you are the 45gal column tank person....
> That tank is too small for 4 red eyes...


 
Based on what criteria?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Ed said:


> Based on what criteria?


Look at the tank....with the waterfall and tree taking up so much room the space is now about the size of a 30 gallon...

Wouldn't you say they'd need more room then that to truely flourish?
Plus when you plant it there is more space lost...

I know back on my paladriumthread.....if you remember Ed...when all that stuff happened with Pumlio and the mixing my anoles, geckos and frogs y'all told me my frogs alone need about a 40 gallon tank and I have 6 smaller green treefrogs.

Idk man it just seems too small with that big tree there does it not?

And about the red eyes eating the darts....I was told by someone that most bigger frogs will eat smaller ones and just to be safe it isn't a good idea...
Sorry I must have been misinformed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DragonSpirit1185;584932 said:


> Look at the tank....with the waterfall and tree taking up so much room the space is now about the size of a 30 gallon...


And on what criteria are you basing that statement? 




DragonSpirit1185;584932 said:


> I know back on my paladriumthread.....if you remember Ed...when all that stuff happened with Pumlio and the mixing my anoles, geckos and frogs y'all told me my frogs alone need about a 40 gallon tank and I have 6 smaller green treefrogs.


Hmm.. that isn't what I remember telling your or what it shows in the thread. Here is the post http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...kground-my-first-build-help-4.html#post532218 Nowhere do I suggest that those frogs required a 40 gallon tank... In fact, my suggestion was based on the fact that you lacked the proper housing for the animals you had already aquired, and was restricted by the tanks you had on hand... I in fact gave you the option of using a 20 gallon or the 30 gallon. .. and no where in the above thread did I make any statement that a 40 gallon was needed....


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Ed said:


> And on what criteria are you basing that statement?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It just looks too small and I jsut don't see them very happy.


I said y'all not you yourself....it might have been someone that said it in a PM....it's been a while.
I thought it was mentioned that even a 40g was even too small for my frogs.

Relax......I might have made a mistake.

Honestly you of all people I thought would've said that there isn't much room for the red eyes to roam around


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> It just looks too small and I jsut don't see them very happy.....


Why? on what criteria? The frogs don't float or hover....​ 



DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Honestly you of all people I thought would've said that there isn't much room for the red eyes to roam around


As I noted above the frogs don't float or hover so what criteria are you using? I'm not getting upset or angry but you threw out a position without anything to support it.. 

Ed


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Ed said:


> Why? on what criteria? The frogs don't float or hover....​


Of course they don't haha but they won't just stay on the back ground....
I was saying the distance between the glass and background should be further.
Might just be where the tree looks so big it makes it look so small....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Of course they don't haha but they won't just stay on the back ground....
> I was saying the distance between the glass and background should be further.
> Might just be where the tree looks so big it makes it look so small....


No they won't stay on just the background.. they can move to all of the sides as well as the top and bottom of the tank if they choose. 

Ed


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## vincecarter (Aug 11, 2021)

Enavas said:


> I use to keep a group of RETF with my leuc. They were in at vert. I put the crickets for the red eyes in tall plastic see through cups and feed the leuc with fruit flies. It was a custom build viv so the top 1/4th was screen and bottom was a water feature area i filled with cherry shrimp. It worked really well for the frogs and shrimps. I had a small ficus tree and some bambo in there where the red eyes sleep. I no longer have this because i moved and sold them all. just want to let you guys know that it can be done.


How long did you do this for and how big was the cage?


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## Lovelyk (Feb 7, 2021)

vincecarter said:


> How long did you do this for and how big was the cage?


@vincecarter, you’re commenting on a ten year old thread, and despite the claim of this one individual, there probably were issues with both the water feature and the mixing of species. Just because things “seem” fine short term, doesn’t mean the frogs aren’t having issues. Try looking at some more recent threads for explanations of this.


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## vincecarter (Aug 11, 2021)

Lovelyk said:


> @vincecarter, you’re commenting on a ten year old thread, and despite the claim of this one individual, there probably were issues with both the water feature and the mixing of species. Just because things “seem” fine short term, doesn’t mean the frogs aren’t having issues. Try looking at some more recent threads for explanations of this.


Everyone on here seems dead set against it, but Josh's frogs website says you can mix darts and small tree frogs in something over 50gal. Amphibiancare.com says it too


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## Lovelyk (Feb 7, 2021)

vincecarter said:


> Everyone on here seems dead set against it, but Josh's frogs website says you can mix darts and small tree frogs in something over 50gal. Amphibiancare.com says it too


Josh’s Frogs offers a lot of outdated, problematic advice. I just looked at the amphibiancare website and it actually says the opposite. This blog post is a bit misleading, as it says, yes, it’s something people can do, but actually outlines all the problems that this mixing often results in. https://amphibiancare.com/2008/05/21/mixed-species-dilemma/
“When multiple species are placed into a small glass box there is a greater chance that something will go wrong than there is even when species coexist in nature.”
”Accommodating different environmental needs for multiple species in one enclosure is difficult and sometimes impossible to do. If the environments needed by different species don’t match up they should not be kept together.”
”Some amphibians and reptiles that are close to the same size, live in similar environments, are not poisonous in captivity, and would presumably do fine if kept together sometimes do poorly because they require different types of food to eat. Diet is one of the most important aspects of reptile and amphibian captive husbandry. Unfortunately, *not all species eat the same foods*, and those that do often do not eat the same sizes of food, and this needs to be taken into consideration.
For example, both red-eyed tree frogs (Agalychnis callidryas) and green and black poison dart frogs (Dendrobates auratus) inhabit similar environments, are not especially aggressive, are not poisonous in captivity and would otherwise seem like they might coexist well. However, a large difference in their captive care requirements is diet. The tree frog will only recognize larger invertebrates as food, while dart frogs have difficulty eating anything other than the tiniest of prey. Although feeding both sizes of food is one possible solution, this could end poorly because large feeder insects such as crickets that go unnoticed may attempt to eat reptiles and amphibians that do not eat them first. In the above mentioned scenario, the adult crickets for the red-eyed tree frog could potentially harm the dart frogs.”
”*Whenever two species are kept together there is usually a greater chance that problems will occur than when they are kept separate*, and it is important to understand this before mixing species.”
Just a few parts from that site you mentioned. And these are among just a few of the reasons why people here know it’s a bad idea.


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## Hoppy22 (Aug 11, 2021)

Averhoeven said:


> See... this kind of thinking is where I am. All the other posts so far seem to be gut reaction "don't mix them" without really giving me great reasons why. The tincs
> Already have their own cage and have for a year. I was just thinking the environments are similar, the cage is bigger, there would be minimal competition for space or food and it might be neat. I was looking for whether there were any logical REASONS why I couldn't, not just all caps postings that say "i would never" without an explanation.
> 
> I acknowledge that 2 of the posts have given hints of reasons that I am considering. It was purely a planning question. There is a ton of knowledge and experience here that I was hoping to invoke.


I believe the presence of the red eyes would be an issue for the dart frogs as the retf will be beboppin around while they are trying to sleep


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## Hoppy22 (Aug 11, 2021)

vincecarter said:


> Everyone on here seems dead set against it, but Josh's frogs website says you can mix darts and small tree frogs in something over 50gal. Amphibiancare.com says it too


Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean you should. You don't just want both species to survive but to thrive.


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