# Emaciated auratus



## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

One of my young D. auratus, roughly a year OOW, has been missing for some time. I just searched for him today and found him, thankfully, alive, but not looking too well. He is very underweight, and his shoulder blades are visible. He is also noticeably smaller than the other frogs in the vivarium, even though he is only a couple of weeks younger than they are. I'm unsure whether the problem is bullying (although he does appear to be eating), insufficient vitamin and mineral supplements, or a genetic defect. What course of action should I take?

Another thing that I would like to voice my concern on is that these young frogs are still not full-size; despite a number of sources claiming dendrobatids to be mature at a year OOW. They are being kept in a 10-gallon vivarium which is on the small side, but I planned to put them up for sale at Christmas. My azureus, which I purchased at roughly 6 months OOW, were effectively full-size by a year old, as were my bakhuis. Is something wrong with this group as a whole?


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

First thing you need to do is isolate the frog in question. Set it up in a nice at tub with a paper towel, some kind of foliage, like a pothos cutting. Feed it small numbers of flies throughout the day, as not to overwhelm the frog. Try feeding out some larvae to get him fattened up. What supplements are you using, and at what frequency? Grab a fresh poop and take it to a vet who can run fecals. I'm betting that bullying is the major issue here, but parasites may come into play. 

As far as them being mature at a year, I've had two different groups of auratus, one years ago, one currently, that were (are) growing at a year. Once they hit sexual maturity, they slow down in growth, but do not completely stop. I currently have a trio of Campaña that I felt were small, but really they are noticeably larger than they were a couple months ago, and they are about a year now.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I had a group of auratus, 4 in the group. One of them was being bullied. I hadn't seen him in a while, but they weren't a very bold group so I didn't worry too much. Then I saw him come out for flies and the other frogs chased him away! He was skin and bones. I pulled him from the tank and put him in his own 10g, where he did very well and gained back his weight.

So, my recommendation is to get this little guy set up in his own digs, asap.


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks to both of you. My first instinct was to isolate him, but I just wanted some outside opinion. It's getting late, but I want to keep an eye on the frog, so I'll move him first thing in the morning.
Oh, and yes, I'm back full time now.


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

Okay, slight complication. The only substrate that I can find right now is the tree fern substrate, which can apparently irritate darts' skin.








Should I just use damp paper towels, should I go out and buy a better substrate, or will this be okay as he won't be living in the isolation setup long-term?


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

You would be better off using plain sphagnum than tree fern. In this case I'd just use paper towels, for ease of collecting a poo.


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## Tincman (Jan 18, 2013)

Its unbelievable how quickly problems get solved on here! Ive Seriously learned more on here this year & chatting with long term froggers Ive met through this site then I did from books & just keeping a few frogs for 10 years! The other members already gave you the best advice as far as Isolating first & foremost, ensuring proper supplementation & they also pointing out that "bullying" or what I call Competitive eating in froglets is more then likely the issue & that you can be extra cautious & get fecals done to rule out parasites. 
Id only like to add my similar experience I had with Highland Bronzes a couple years back that taught me a lot about froglets. I noticed the same thing with 1 of my froglets not really putting on size as much as the others & often being found away from the feeding area & only getting the flies that ventured over to his portion of the tank. I pulled him after realizing how much thinner he became in just a couple weeks of this & did what everyone is recommending here. I Fed him a small amount of dusted flies & kept him hydrated over sphagnum.. It took me over 2 mos to catch him up to the group & to be honest I wasnt sure he was going to make it in the beginning because he was not so active & pretty thin. Im sure if I pulled him 2 weeks later he wouldnt have had the energy to chase flies even in a sweaterbox. My only point is that as with most issues the key is *early detection *, *Identifying the weaker or ostracized frog losing weight as early as possible so the problem doesnt get to the irreversible point. * Good luck man... Sounds like your on the right track though


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

epiphytes etc. said:


> You would be better off using plain sphagnum than tree fern. In this case I'd just use paper towels, for ease of collecting a poo.


Unfortunately I've already used sphagnum; guess that'll just complicate things a bit. Any idea how much a fecal will cost?
The good news is that I just the frog and he is climbing the walls and hopping around, so I don't think he's on the verge of death just yet. I'll feed him later this evening.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

My vet charges $30.


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

UPDATE: Unfortunately, the frog passed away the morning after my previous message. I've found three reptile vets within an hour of my house, all of which are in Toronto, and I'm trying to work out which one of the three would be the best in case of future illness. The remaining three froglets appear to be okay, but I'm slightly concerned about their small size.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

sorry that you lost this frog.

Re: small size... impossible to know for sure why these guys havent reached full size in a year. Some thoughts... it could be bad genetics... if these are siblings of siblings of siblings, perhaps they are not vigorous and adaptable. (but folks debate this sort of genetic assumption often, and I'm no expert) It could be temperature. I have noticed that froglets that come ootw in the winter when the frogroom is only 72f, and if I only feed every toher day, then the frogs grow slower and perhaps ultimatley not as large as a froglet who experiences daily feedings and a temperature of 78f from its first day ootw. The conditions it was raised in as a tadpole could also influence this. Was it warm and well fed with clean water? or was it cool, sporadically fed non-nutricious food and in very dirty water, triggering it to metamorphose sooner. 

Re: your other frogs. The best course of action would be to move them into quarantine, take down their previous tank and disinfect it, get fecal samples done, keep them warm, well fed, and in a clean quarantine procedure until you find out via fecals if they are sick.


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

These froglets have since reached full size and been sold


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