# Help with sick dart... possibly dying



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

Well we have a Leucomelas dart and we have noticed him acting strange lately. Now he has started to not eat and this is a frog that wouldn't waist a second attacking food. I also noticed he is holding his legs in an different position and Im not sure what is going on.

could it be the cage that he is in? there is no filtration system but there is a false bottom with coco fiber and moss with a live pothos growing in the viv. We are not sure what is wrong at all just noticed he is acting different and looks as though he may not be eating. we have been misting him with water and doing what we can. Any advice is much appreciated!

Attached photos of him and the viv he lives in.

Frog









Tank

Substrate









VIV


----------



## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

How old is it, how long have you had it, describe feeding and supplementation provided .It looks like he has spindly leg.


----------



## saruchan (Jun 12, 2010)

I agree his front legs do not look normal at all sry man. Did you purchase him as a froglet or did you raise it from a tadpole?


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

he was purchased as a froglet from a breeder here in ky. we feed him fruit flies that we have raised. we used to dust the food but he wouldnt eat the food if dusted and was told by breeder it was ok just fruit flies. We have had him for about a year or more.


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

also does this mean he will soon die or is there something that can save him? is this something we have caused or the breeder?


----------



## dartguy (Feb 2, 2011)

It looks like a metabolic issue and if you haven't been dusting with supplements, then that's what is likely happening. What kind of supplements were you using? If you haven't already done so, you should try the Repashy Calcium + ICB supplement. You really need to start supplementing again or you're going to lose that frog.


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

we were using zoo-med calcium dusted pin heads and he had nothing to do with them. right now all that we have on hand is fluker's calcium with vitamin D3 phosphorus free would this be safe to use for the night until the stores open back up or should i take my chances and wait.


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

knj102690 said:


> we were using zoo-med calcium dusted pin heads and he had nothing to do with them. right now all that we have on hand is fluker's calcium with vitamin D3 phosphorus free would this be safe to use for the night until the stores open back up or should i take my chances and wait.


Calcium dust is not enough for dart frogs. This is the problem most likely. He needs a great deal more nutrients---he is starving. Fruit fly larvae might be good for him, but the flies and crickets are not very nutritious---they are only meant as carrier for the good nutrition in a high-quality supplement. Try the Repashy Calcium plus ICB---it has extra good stuff in it. Don't take any chances and wait. I can send you some extra for the price of USPS overnight shipping if you PM me your email address for PayPal.
He's likely not got another few days, let alone a week, without adequate nutrition.


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

ok is there a way to see how much that would cost? i am a member of a reptile forum here in ky. and i put a post up looking for some but i doubt anyone has it. Im at 40214 louisville ky.


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

knj102690 said:


> ok is there a way to see how much that would cost? i am a member of a reptile forum here in ky. and i put a post up looking for some but i doubt anyone has it. Im at 40214 louisville ky.


An express envelope to your area is about $13.24, so plus gas to drop it off and mail it, $15. I believe express mail is overnight mail, but it wouldn't get there until Wednesday of course. I could send you a couple ounces of some of my stuff.


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

ok i just got ahold of a breeder we are fimilar with he breeds different insects who thinks he has some so i may be able to get it locally i will update you on this tomorrow morning if this is ok.


----------



## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Was the breeder supplementing him with just calcium then when you bought him? Out of curiosity, are some of his toepads on the front feet fused together or are they just close in the picture?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Given the length of time without access to D3 then this is probably a case of "MBD". See for example Axolotl - malnutrition, nutrient deficiency, Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) (I didn't realize that I had been cited as a reference when I was reading it..) 

Given the posture and the deformation of the long bones of the legs, it is also possible that the bones for feeding have softened and deformed (particularly those that control the tongue). If the frog is going to survive, it needs to be evaluated by a vet and treated ASAP. It is going to need access to D3 in a form other than powder in the proper dosage. 

Ed


----------



## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Ed said:


> Given the length of time without access to D3 then this is probably a case of "MBD". See for example Axolotl - malnutrition, nutrient deficiency, Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD) (I didn't realize that I had been cited as a reference when I was reading it..)
> 
> Given the posture and the deformation of the long bones of the legs, it is also possible that the bones for feeding have softened and deformed (particularly those that control the tongue). If the frog is going to survive, it needs to be evaluated by a vet and treated ASAP. It is going to need access to D3 in a form other than powder in the proper dosage.
> 
> Ed


I agree with Ed . I cannot beleive it is alive after such a long time without proper supplementation. I am glad the actual care was layed out as that made this an easy one to figure out.


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

i took him to the vet as soon as they opened this morning. It was to late and he didnt make it :'-( but after all this happening i dont think ill get another one. But just out of curiousity we just switched the fruit fly media from joshs frogs to a home made version found at a local reptile show.could this have done something because we have never had issues with joshs frogs mix. thanks for all advice i wish i would have known earlier to keep him safe.


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

oh also on the legs i didnt look extremly close but it looked like his back legs only had one toe and tge fronts as well so tge fused together is possible


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

knj102690 said:


> i took him to the vet as soon as they opened this morning. It was to late and he didnt make it :'-( but after all this happening i dont think ill get another one. But just out of curiousity we just switched the fruit fly media from joshs frogs to a home made version found at a local reptile show.could this have done something because we have never had issues with joshs frogs mix. thanks for all advice i wish i would have known earlier to keep him safe.


No it wasn't the media. All of the commonly available feeders for the frogs have a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio, which means that if they don't get enough calcium dusted onto thier food they will develop a calcium deficiency. In addition to needing to have the calcium dusted on the food they need vitamin D3 at the same time (as they aren't exposed to sunlight), or they can't absorb the needed calcium. Vitamin D3 is stored in the liver, so once the stores were depleated the frog began to develop what is commonly called metabolic bone disease or "MBD" by the hobby (this is actually a number of different problems that present the same symptoms). 

I wouldn't be discouraged as it sounds like you have the husbandry down pretty well (as you kept him alive for a year). If you had the complete supplement you would have been good to go for a long time. 

If get another leucomelas from the same breeder, you shouldn't have to break down the tank (as the cause of death wasn't due to an infectious disease or parasite and the frog(s) are coming from the same source) unless you want to redecorate it. Instead you need to get a complete supplement.


----------



## knj102690 (Jul 16, 2010)

thanks to all that attempted to help me with this frog. unfortunately he didnt make it through the morning but i have learned alot from this experience.


----------

