# More info on dart frog toxins



## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

This isn't universally accepted, but batrachotoxin found in _Phyllobates_ might actually be a derivative, and not from one single food source:

The structure of batrachotoxinin A, a novel steroidal alkaloid from the Columbian arrow poison frog, Phyllobates aurotaenia - Journal of the American Chemical Society (ACS Publications)

Looks like _O. lehmanni_ and maybe _speciosa_ as well might be "potentially dangerous" as opposed to mildly toxic like the rest of the genus:

Edwards, A.L.; Longino, J. T.; Daly, J. W. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U. S. A. 2004, 101, 8045-8050.

_Anthonyi_ might have some medicinal use after all, the painkiller epibatidine (200 times more powerful than morphine but also very toxic) could produce some less harmful derivatives:

http://www.newscientist.com/article...e-potent-painkiller-from-poisonous-frog-.html

```

```


----------



## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Chemists have been working on epibatidine since 1977. It has been synthesized in the lab to render it non-toxic. Abbot Labs is in the process of trying to produce this as a non-addictive alternative to morphine. Too bad the drug lobby is so powerful and this will probably never see the light of day. It makes no business sense for drug companies and doctors to promote a non-addictive pain killer. 

Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

BTW, I believe the original source of the Anthonyi that produced the epibatidine were smuggled out of Ecuador. 

Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Second link isn't working for me.


----------



## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Chemists have been working on epibatidine since 1977. It has been synthesized in the lab to render it non-toxic. Abbot Labs is in the process of trying to produce this as a non-addictive alternative to morphine. Too bad the drug lobby is so powerful and this will probably never see the light of day. It makes no business sense for drug companies and doctors to promote a non-addictive pain killer.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI-M931 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


I believe the issue was that they couldn't make it non-toxic and so it was ultimately discarded. So test subjects didn't feel pain and didn't form addictions....but were poisoned in the process.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

easternversant said:


> I believe the issue was that they couldn't make it non-toxic and so it was ultimately discarded. So test subjects didn't feel pain and didn't form addictions....but were poisoned in the process.


According to wiki:
*"...epibatidine has gastrointestinal side effects. This gives the compound a very small therapeutic index...*" 

and...
*"There have also been successful attempts to create epibatidine-like molecules, like ABT-418 and epiboxidine. This was done in order to find an analgesic with less adverse effects."
* (At some point they will probably find a similar molecule that does something useful and is much safer...so it is still worth wild research probably)
and...
" *]...Unfortunately for its therapeutic uses, the therapeutic concentration is very close to the toxic concentration. This means that even at a therapeutic dose (5 µg kg−1[18]) some of the epibatidine might bind the muscarinic acetylcholine receptors and cause adverse effects, such as hypertension, bradycardia and muscular paresis.[14] There has been a significant amount of research towards creation of a derivative of epibatidine characterized by reduced toxicity, whilst retaining the powerful analgesic effect.[10] To date these efforts remain unsuccessful, but epibatidine and its relatives may still have a role in pain management in the future.*"

Full wiki..
Epibatidine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe they need to hire some of the Chemists that keep coming up with all these recreational "research chemicals" that are different enough from street drugs to bypass the analog laws. For instance Ethlyphenidate which is what you get when you take Ritalin and it combines/is metabolized with alcohol (Still basically has a very similar effect as actual Ritalin). It is uncontrolled and basically legal in most states as long as you can come up with some reasonable doubt to whether or not you are taking it to get "high", such as researching its use as a plant fertilizer. These guys keep rolling out new chems faster then the laws can keep up though...We need to get them legit jobs


----------



## peehulea750 (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for share the post with us.


----------

