# Titebond III - Waste of time and money.



## naadbrahma (Sep 14, 2012)

Thought I would try Tightbond III out on a great stuff and cork background. The stuff is just pathetic. It has absolutely no ability to adhere to the smooth surface of great stuff. I've been working in one wall and it's been requiring application after application and it still looks like crap. If you want to save time and money don't bother with this stuff, stick with brown silicone. Now I'm going to have to rip out the background on this tank and start from scratch.


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

naadbrahma said:


> Thought I would try Tightbond III out on a great stuff and cork background. The stuff is just pathetic. It has absolutely no ability to adhere to the smooth surface of great stuff. I've been working in one wall and it's been requiring application after application and it still looks like crap. If you want to save time and money don't bother with this stuff, stick with brown silicone. Now I'm going to have to rip out the background on this tank and start from scratch.


I've read that with titebond, or really anything you want to adhere to that foam, you should first sand down the foam to give the material a rough surface to apply to, rather than a smooth-as-glass surface.


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## vjf000 (Jun 14, 2008)

As a result of reading some posts over time I began to think that Titebond III was essentially the same as Gorilla Glue. I compared the products in the store over the weekend when I was looking for something else a Lowes. In contrast to Gorilla Glue, Titebond directions say the surfaces must be dry and the final product is NOT 100% waterproof. In fact the Titebond III bottle says it should not be submerged when dry. Gorilla glue should be applied with water or moisture which causes it to foam (a big plus) and IS 100% WATERPROOF when dry. I would not want to use Titebond in a high humidity Viv, whether or not it is directly exposed to water from a "waterfall" or misters. I have made several backgrounds with Gorilla Glue, some adhering directly to glass aquarium walls and as long as you keep it thick it stays in place and holds up to the high humidity. One tank has been going for three years now with no problems. In conclusion, I agree, NO Titebond III in my Vivs.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I too had a bad experience with TB3 but dont get discouraged.. too many others are have too much success.. I just actually set ours up tonight. So will see the finished product in a week or so. Perhaps you did not let it cure fully? maybe you did like we did and just did not do the correct mixture? I made some vines by dipping rope into a straight TB3 glue and pressing peat into them. After 1.5 weeks of curing they were solid and looked great.


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

I used TB3 on my 180 gallon build and had great success with it. I tested a few mixtures before hand and a mix that's like a paste worked best for me. It does take a while to completely cure. Also on my background I covered the great stuff with a tinted drylok and sand mix first. I wanted certain spots to show through the TB3+peat. The drylok did give a better surface for the TB3 to grip.

Link to my build for reference.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...0-gallon-viv-build-plus-two-20-gal-verts.html


-Josh


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## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

Ya, not a fan of TB III, from my experience, it pulls the GS away from the class due to shrinkage when it dries. Silicone or Gorilla glue for me.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

naadbrahma said:


> Thought I would try Tightbond III out on a great stuff and cork background. The stuff is just pathetic. It has absolutely no ability to adhere to the smooth surface of great stuff. I've been working in one wall and it's been requiring application after application and it still looks like crap. If you want to save time and money don't bother with this stuff, stick with brown silicone. Now I'm going to have to rip out the background on this tank and start from scratch.


I'm not trying to be a douche, but what does adhere to un-sanded or un-carved GS? Using titebond is a extremely simple method nearly as simple as the silicone method but last a lot longer. I've have done three titebond builds and will never waste the money on silicone again. Most of the time it is user error not the performance of the material. Once again not trying to put you on blast, but do not give bad advice about a product that you didnt correctly use.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Most people think TB3 is like silicone, TB3 takes like a week to fully cure, where silicone can take less than a day. I'm impatient so I will pass on TB3, but its cool, but its just a longer process.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

My background was made with TB III directly on unsanded GS. I had no problems with it adhering or curing, which BTW, happened in only 2 or 3 days (depending on the thickness) here in the dry SoCal. I purchased the glue from Amazon. I used a combination of 2 methods - glue+ABG slurry covered with dry fine ABG (to remove the shine). 

Cleanup was a breeze and there was virtually no smell. I wouldn't use any different methods.


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## naadbrahma (Sep 14, 2012)

diggenem said:


> I'm not trying to be a douche, but what does adhere to un-sanded or un-carved GS?


Silicone does, and it's actually cheaper. I'm not saving time if I have to go and sand every possible crevice on my background just so titebond will grab to it.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

naadbrahma said:


> Silicone does, and it's actually cheaper. I'm not saving time if I have to go and sand every possible crevice on my background just so titebond will grab to it.


Did you add water to it?


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

B-NICE said:


> Most people think TB3 is like silicone, TB3 takes like a week to fully cure, where silicone can take less than a day. I'm impatient so I will pass on TB3, but its cool, but its just a longer process.


One day for silicone to cure? I wait a month before planting a tank because I can still smell it at week three.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

This is interesting to me as I've never had any problems using the Titebond. I generally carve most of the GS, though not 100% of it by any means. I carve it and shape it to what I want it to look like. 
I apply the Titebond with a 1" paintbrush then press dried peat into it. Sure I have to go back and touch up some areas, that's normal even with silicone. I feel by using the paintbrush I can get into more "nooks and crannies" than I could with just having a latex glove on my hand. 
Perhaps you got a bad bottle of Titebond, I know other froggers have bought bad bottles of silicone before. Was it a gallon jug or a smaller bottle?


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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I am with Rusty on this, I have had bad Silicone as well as TBIII the key is to buy it in the summer months, when this stuff is shipped it is going to be exposed to freezing temps that may cause problems curing properly.


Scott


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I have done 2 builds so far using Titebond III. 

A 125g that is completely TB & Soil ... ive had no issues.

I just finished the background on 10g vert using GS Pond & TB w/ soil and have had zero issues again. To add, i DID NOT sand or carve the GS before adding the TB/soil.

I think maybe your situation is either an isolated incident for the most part or due to user error, bc there are FAR more people here that have had success than failure using those products you mention.

Good Luck, i hope it works out better for you in the future.


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## Sticky Fingers (Sep 28, 2011)

My 150 is doing great so far with TB3, peat and GS. I did not sand my GS. I did 2-3 layers and it cured for about a month.


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## naadbrahma (Sep 14, 2012)

I've been using the 3 to 1 ratio thus far. Just bought a wire brush and am roughing up various parts. Drying is not the issue, adhering is. I like the texture thus far but the amount of spots that don't pick up coir is a bit disheartening. The main reason I decided to try Titebond is the fact acetic acid from silicone irritates my lungs.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

naadbrahma said:


> I've been using the 3 to 1 ratio thus far. Just bought a wire brush and am roughing up various parts. Drying is not the issue, adhering is. I like the texture thus far but the amount of spots that don't pick up coir is a bit disheartening. The main reason I decided to try Titebond is the fact acetic acid from silicone irritates my lungs.


Is your coir totally dry or is it moist? I didn't try the mix method. I applied the glue first and then pressed in totally dry peat. Good luck, let us know if this works any better for you.


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

When I made my mix... I used dry coir and ground sphagnum. I added glue until it made a nice paste. This ensures that there is enough glue to saturate all the coir and adhere to the GS well. As a plus is you can make pretty thick areas in one pass if you want. It of course takes longer to dry. Then just dust the top with dry coir if you want. I played with different variations before my build and this method is what worked best for me.

-Josh


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## vjf000 (Jun 14, 2008)

You guys and gals are making things more complicated than they need to be. Just use Gorilla Glue directly on the glass of the tank, mist with water, press whatever you want into it, press down the rising foam due to reaction with water to whatever depth or shape you desire, and in about 20 minutes it is done rising and ready to use the next day. Really.
Don't need Great Stuff, then silicone or TBIII and then peat cover. I dye the Gorilla Glue with dark brown or dark green food coloring in a fruit fly container before I apply. Try it, you will like it.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I used Gorilla Glue as well before and I liked it but I can't find it by the gallon. I used TB3 straight to the glass and it worked perfectly, its just kind of flat which is what I was shooting for. All in all 3 TB builds 0 issues

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

I just finished a viv background this past fall that I applied silicone to the glass first, then great stuff which I carved to my liking, and then covered in the Titebond 3 cocofiber paste. After much experimentation it still took over a month for the T3 paste to cure because I live in Houston which is very humid. At any rate, I am very pleased with the final result, it is very hard unlike the silicone and coco fiber method and it has not broken up under constant misting. I will say that this method is great once you figure out the mix that works for you, experimentation is what I enjoyed about this method and that is what our hobby is all about; experimenting, sharing found ideas and methods, experimenting, posting what worked for you and what didn't, and why it might have failed. I wish you best of luck in your next build and I am sorry the T3 method didn't work for you.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

I am not a fan of titebond either. I have experience with both silicone and titebond... I much prefer using silicone.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

frogfreak said:


> One day for silicone to cure? I wait a month before planting a tank because I can still smell it at week three.


Let me say dry in about a day. I wasn't talking about the smell. I wouldn't mind trying TB3 to the side glass of a 10 gallon vert....


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

B-NICE said:


> Let me say dry in about a day. I wasn't talking about the smell. I wouldn't mind trying TB3 to the side glass of a 10 gallon vert....


I see. Thanks for clarifying.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

B-NICE said:


> Let me say dry in about a day. I wasn't talking about the smell. I wouldn't mind trying TB3 to the side glass of a 10 gallon vert....


I went straight to the glass with TB3 on a 40 vert. It worked out pretty well but is pretty much flat. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## naadbrahma (Sep 14, 2012)

So after four coats on each viv, I think I finally have the great stuff all covered up. It appears the glue dries within 48 hours for me. So I finished them tonight and they are sitting and drying now. Would it be safe to plant the tanks by Tuesday night? Has anyone had coir come peeling off after the background gets wet? I just really don't trust this glue for some reason. It looks okay now but will it hold up?


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

Mine is holding up very well... I would make sure it's completely cured before planting and misting... Because if its not all the way cured that could cause it to release/peel/crumble due to the thinning of the un-cured glue. Don't rush it, it should be rock hard when fully cured.

-Josh


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

naadbrahma said:


> So after four coats on each viv, I think I finally have the great stuff all covered up. It appears the glue dries within 48 hours for me. So I finished them tonight and they are sitting and drying now. Would it be safe to plant the tanks by Tuesday night? Has anyone had coir come peeling off after the background gets wet? I just really don't trust this glue for some reason. It looks okay now but will it hold up?


I would let it dry a little longer. It takes a little longer for the glue underneath to dry. It's good when you can't smell any glue. 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Personally, I won't use Titebond in a humid or wet environment. I did some test batches (I mixed Titebond with Eco-earth until I had a nice paste) then let it cure for two weeks. It was rock hard when I soaked it in a bucket of water,in half an hour it became soft and rubbery and I could smell the glue. I have no idea what any of that means chemically, but I'll stick to Gorilla-glue...


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

jacobi said:


> Personally, I won't use Titebond in a humid or wet environment. I did some test batches (I mixed Titebond with Eco-earth until I had a nice paste) then let it cure for two weeks. It was rock hard when I soaked it in a bucket of water,in half an hour it became soft and rubbery and I could smell the glue. I have no idea what any of that means chemically, but I'll stick to Gorilla-glue...


Was it Titebond III, Jake?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

sounds like definite drawback if one is considering an underwater application at the very least...but GG or GS isn't meant for that either...so Drylock??


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

JPccusa said:


> Was it Titebond III, Jake?


Yes. It was Titebond III. My first guess was the organic materials (coir, eco-earth,etc) that are mixed into it absorb water into the mix, but I also made a few "blobs" (a very technical term!) of just Titebond and they were just as rubbery.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Weird... I hope my entire background doesn't come apart. I will watch it closely.


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

I can say that the T3 takes forever(Like 1 Month forever) to fully cure. I had some extra 8 inch piece of glass that I took one of my test blobs of T3 and cocofiber and threw the "blob" at the glass and it shattered (Please do not try this at home and I wore eye and hand protection). But needless to say that blob was as hard as a rock after curing and then placing it in a bowl of water overnight and it never came apart and was just as hard the next day. It took some experimenting to get just right but it works great for me.


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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I have tested TBIII on glass let it cure 2 days and placed it in a bucket of water for nearly a month with no changes.

Scott


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## dandrep (Aug 1, 2012)

I did my first vivarium background using TB3. Instead of making a paste of it with the background material, I thinned it with water and used it to soak a mixture of peat and fern fiber. I pressed that onto the GS and it dried into a very hard durable surface. I am very pleased with a Titebond 3 background.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

diggenem said:


> I went straight to the glass with TB3 on a 40 vert. It worked out pretty well but is pretty much flat.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


If I do a 10g vert I dont mind it being flat, I will need that extra side room.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Yea I think its perfect I only plan on mounting creeping fig on it anyway. I'll do a build log when its up and running

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## spyder 1.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

I really do not get it. What is so wrong with using silicon?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

hard to thin for certain applications...messy as can be...smelly...unreliable for some things...Titebond is much easier...I even mixed moss into the "paste." Eventually the sides of the one viv will be covered with the moss..I hope...


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

spyder 1.0 said:


> I really do not get it. What is so wrong with using silicon?


Advantage of using titebond is that it is clear when cured, and becomes the colour of what you mix with it. This also means that it wont go bald over time like the silicone method, and the majority of men


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

GRIMM said:


> Advantage of using titebond is that it is clear when cured, and becomes the colour of what you mix with it. This also means that it wont go bald over time like the silicone method, and the majority of men


To me Grimm is the pioneer of this method. I learned from this method on an Exo-Terra

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## 1995sportster883 (Dec 16, 2012)

This is a great and informational post! I have done 4 vivs two of which have water features. Every time I use silicone I end up very angry, disappointed, and drinking heavily by the end of the project. I have just started a 29gal viv that I am going to be using TB3 on. I am very excited to wip up some paste and see which method I like better. I'm hoping I will have my carving done tomorrow, and I'll be on the TB on Sunday. That will be my moment of truth.

Adam

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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

I can post another positive to the TB3 method. When I put on my TB3+coir/moss mix, I put it on real thick in hoping that plants could possibly root into it. Well after 5 months of my tank running, I have plants rooting into the background all over the place. The roots have no problem penetrating the thicker porous background. I can get some pics if anyone wants them. I really like the TB3 method. Granted I have an extra step which most haven't done with the Drylok coats first.

-Josh


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

pictures and step-by-step process would be great...and perhaps even why you did which application...am working on a few vivs and trying to apply the drilling, substrate, landscaping, etc. things learned from DB....


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

Here are some pics of things that have rooted in the TB3 background. 





































If you are wanting to see how I did the background step by step there is a link on the first page of this thread. 

-Josh


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

At the risk of annoying you...I was primarily interested in how you made the vines...had to wait to post 243 or so for that information...so not everyone can use the Toluene..to thin the silicone. My two questions are: can you substitute Titebond III? When you made the real fine "threads"--how did you do that part...that and the tiny vines around the fatter ones are what contributes to the authenticity... And the way you worked in the internal fan in the back right corner...as far as I could find in 27 pages wasn't really addressed. Grimm, Raf and others have great threads on what you are also doing...but I can't remember any real information about Titebond III instead of silicone. Those of us with much less imagination...just determination...rely on posts such as yours to attempt to replicate the gorgeous tank you have made..


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

Judy, I will pm you... I don't want to thread jack. 

I will say that I wouldn't use TB3 on vines personally. I think they would be too rigid once dried. I like that fact that the silicone lets them stay flexible, so you can make different shapes with them once in the tank.

-Josh


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## Sticky Fingers (Sep 28, 2011)

JoshsDragonz said:


> Judy, I will pm you... I don't want to thread jack.
> 
> I will say that I wouldn't use TB3 on vines personally. I think they would be too rigid once dried. I like that fact that the silicone lets them stay flexible, so you can make different shapes with them once in the tank.
> 
> -Josh


Actually my vines that are against my background and water feature stay really moist and pretty flexible. Now the vines that aren't as moist stay rigid.


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## Reeffrog (Dec 9, 2012)

I just did my first TB3 background over GS. Won't be doing that again. Not that it failed(too soon to tell) I just didn't enjoy the process. I'm going w cork mosaic on the rest of my builds.

Edit. This reads harsher than I intended it to. Just because I didn't like the process doesn't mean someone else shouldn't give it a go and find out for themselves. Lots of ppl like it and have good results.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm happy with my new titebond build. Just have to be patient I guess.

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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I used a Glad container to mix my glue. I did one tank and I'm about to do the second, when I saw the glue on the Glad container that I used before, was loose. I was actually able to pull all of it out of the container. Which scares me cause I used it directly to glass to hold everything. Hope it don't pull off.

That's when I found this thread. After reading some of these posts, I realized that even silicone sometimes has a hard time sticking to smooth plastic. So maybe I don't got anything to worry about.

I hope so. I got some Super Blues on the way. I got some temp tanks to put them in for another few weeks to be sure it's all dry.

I like titebond cause I get plenty of time to do what I need to do. Then add the covering substrate. Not the 10 min hurry like silicone.


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