# Great stuff question



## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Is there really a big difference between the "window and door" and the "gaps and cracks" as far as expansion, holding power, durability etc... Wondering because I'm about to do a background and I have about 5 cans of the "window and door" kind.


Cheers to the rain forest!!!


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Can't advise on this, but they now have Great Stuff Pond & Stone which I just used recently. I'm not sure if any of this stuff is all that safe - but at least the pond type is "fish safe" plus it's black which is way easier to finish.

The Great Stuff for ponds expands way more and cures much faster at half the price of the stuff I used to use. I couldn't find it locally but I'm sure it would be even cheaper if you found it at Home Depot or Lowes.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

I've checked 4 different Home Depot locations and they don't carry the pond foam. For me it's only available online. And it's twice the cost of regular GS.
As far as the regular GS, I think the large gaps and cracks may expand a bit more, but that would be the only difference. The window/door stuff still expands quite a bit. 5 cans would be enough for a quite large background. If you're doing one of the more typical viv sizes and just using it for filler between cork, etc, like most do, I'd be surprised if you went through 2 cans.
If you lightly mist it while it's curing, it will expand a bit more. But it will expand quite a bit on its own.


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## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Hmmm that pond foam sounds tempting! Lol. Yeah, I have it left over from a couple years back. I had to get out of the hobby for a bit because of a move. Managed to keep a lot of my "hardware" in storage and I finally just couldn't take it anymore. I decided to just do one 36x18x18. 


Cheers to the rain forest!!!


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

Friend of mine did a background for a 40 breeder tank. Used a polystyrene backer, 14"x 36" and covered the whole thing with GS. I think he used 3/4 of a can. Actually, he did a bit of a design with it, but by the time it expanded, it was pretty much covered. I think you're covered with 5 cans.


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## roundfrog (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh boy. That pond foam, oof, it's pretty hard on the wallet. I went to orchard supply, and it was 10 dollar bills of legal U.S. tender. And, it was a tiny can! Like 12oz. it also warps a lot. I think the difference with the window and door foam is that it is very flexible, as you don't wan't it to over expand in a gap between a window.


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## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Yeah cause I am going to use cork and tree fern for the background and just use the great stuff to fill in. 

That makes sense roundfrog. 


Cheers to the rain forest!!!


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## Cowboys East (May 4, 2009)

I did a vivarium about 6 years ago were I used both the pond black foam and the regular great stuff to try to save money. I got out of the hobby and put it away in storage for some time. I recently decided to keep darts again and brought the old build back out to work on it. The great stuff regular foam had turned to dust while the pond foam (black) still held its shape. I have used the pond foam on two new builds and the black helps cover up mistakes. Just my two cents from a novice. I use the stuff from home depot and lowes. Its like $14 a can. It is much slower to expand than the regular stuff so you need to watch it and make sure you have a plan laid out. You think it has expanded and set only to wake up and it has doubled in size.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Cowboys East said:


> I did a vivarium about 6 years ago were I used both the pond black foam and the regular great stuff to try to save money. I got out of the hobby and put it away in storage for some time. I recently decided to keep darts again and brought the old build back out to work on it. The great stuff regular foam had turned to dust while the pond foam (black) still held its shape. I have used the pond foam on two new builds and the black helps cover up mistakes. Just my two cents from a novice. I use the stuff from home depot and lowes. Its like $14 a can. It is much slower to expand than the regular stuff so you need to watch it and make sure you have a plan laid out. You think it has expanded and set only to wake up and it has doubled in size.


Sorry for derailing this topic 

Cowboy, were they exposed to any sunlight? Like maybe through a window... I've never used the regular GF, aside from it's intended use as insulation and now I'm a little worried about it's durability.

Also the $14 Lowes pond foam is the stuff I used to use. From my experience the GF pond is so much better.

It's ridiculous that Lowes and Home Depot don't stock it.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

port_plz said:


> Sorry for derailing this topic
> 
> Cowboy, were they exposed to any sunlight? Like maybe through a window... I've never used the regular GF, aside from it's intended use as insulation and now I'm a little worried about it's durability.
> 
> ...


Any time I've seen it used in an exterior application where it was exposed to air and sun, it turns orange and dry rots. I would imagine it holds up much longer in a humid environment and being completely sealed/encased. I'm sure it still breaks down at some point. But exposed to sunlight and air will turn most foam to dust.
And yeah, I was pretty excited about the GS pond foam. Figured they would stock it for the spring/pond building season. Nope. Kinda sucks. Don't feel like paying $12-14 p/can, plus shipping too.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

They already raised the price!

I just ordered some earlier this month for $8 each with free shipping. 

Should have got a case...


Edit: If you go here it's $7.98 with Prime free shipping
 

-


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## Fingolfin (Jan 31, 2016)

If anyone on this thread is from the upper midwest, try Menards, they have gs pond foam for like 7-8$

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Yeahhhh, haha the idea of my background turning to dust doesn't really tickle my fancy! I may do some browsing around town to see if it is stocked anywhere. I like the idea of the black foam better too.


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## Cowboys East (May 4, 2009)

port_plz said:


> Sorry for derailing this topic
> 
> Cowboy, were they exposed to any sunlight? Like maybe through a window... I've never used the regular GF, aside from it's intended use as insulation and now I'm a little worried about it's durability.
> 
> ...


It was in a nonclimate controlled storage unit so no sun. Maybe dry heat. Either way the black foam held its shape and structure. That is pretty much all I am saying.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

GS Windows and Door foam expands much more than the Gaps and Cracks formula. Typically the Window can will, after curing, have formed large round mounds of foam and the Gap can usually makes nice lines that stay thinner.

Lowes and HD do not carry the Pond and Stone can in the stores but show it online, however, if you order it online from Lowes it will never get into their system because the vendor says the stuff has to be ordered by the case (12 cans in a case). Their vendor will not ship them singles.

Almost all Ace Hardware stores carry the Pond and Stone in their stores as do Menards.

FYI the Pond and Stone formula is actually created to be waterproof while the regular GS is not and tends to shrink over time due to humidity.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

I think there may still be an Ace or two around here. I'll look into it.
Thanks.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

There are 2 Ace hardware stores within driving distance of me. Same deal. I would have to have it shipped to the store. Same with all the other hardware stores.
I just don't get it. I'm baffled as to why at least a place like Home Depot wouldn't stock at least a case or 2 in at least a few locations. Especially this time of year.
Oh well. I don't need it now. When I do my next tank, I'll order a bunch.
But it would have been nice to just run to the store and grab a can to play with for now. I wanted to see what it looked like, how long it took to cure, how much it expanded, how it behaved in general, etc.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Both Ace locations don't carry it? That's weird, every ACE in my area has it in stock as well as the stores back home in VA Beach. Must be a regional thing.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

Well, I checked the website and when I clicked "check availability", the only option was to have it shipped to store. It didn't say it was in stock.
I just called and they have 4 cans. I think I'll go grab some.
Just thought I'd give an update.
I know you guys were on the edge of your seats and extremely concerned about me possibly not getting any


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## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Hahaha I was so far on the edge I almost slipped off Blueper 


Cheers to the rain forest!!!


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Blueper said:


> Well, I checked the website and when I clicked "check availability", the only option was to have it shipped to store. It didn't say it was in stock.
> I just called and they have 4 cans. I think I'll go grab some.
> Just thought I'd give an update.
> I know you guys were on the edge of your seats and extremely concerned about me possibly not getting any


haha, yep. that's what I did too. My wife and I were driving past Ace and I just stopped in and showed the guy a pic of the can and he took me right to it.


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## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Haha good deal! So it actually is some of this mysterious stuff out there then!! 


Cheers to the rain forest!!!


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

Boom!


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## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Haha! I'm going to be next!! Will you use it soon? If so, would you share your opinion as well?


Cheers to the rain forest!!!


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Honestly, the Pond & Stone seems to hold up better than the regular yellow stuff IMO. I've had a couple tanks that had to be re-done because the GS started to shrink and pull away from the glass.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

tnorwood0811 said:


> Haha! I'm going to be next!! Will you use it soon? If so, would you share your opinion as well?


yep. I just have to think of something to use it for that will use up a whole can, so I don't waste it.


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## tnorwood0811 (Sep 7, 2011)

Hey guys, just got some cans from Amazon at $7.98! Two day shipping with Prime!


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## Natural_Tank (Feb 24, 2015)

I have never seen the great stuff brand of pond foam, looks promising. I really prefer the waterproof black foam over a yellow foam that isn't rated for water contact, but many people have had plenty of success with it, so it obviously is not that big of a difference. I bought my foam from Lowes as "Waterfall Foam Sealant." They generally have a few cans stacked on a shelf in their pond section outside the store. Home depot carries a similar product as well, but I have not seen it in person. 

Here is the product that Lowes carries:

Shop smartpond Pond Sealant Foam at Lowes.com

And here is the one found at Home depot:

Total Pond Waterfall Foam Sealant-A16523 - The Home Depot

I have read about foam peeling off of the back of glass in vivs for a while now. When I made my first foam background I was terrified of this happening, but I was definitely not going to smear a layer of silicone on the back pane in order to give the surface more "surface." I do not know what, if anything, sticks to cured silicone. What I did and continue to do is silicone scrap pieces of egg crate to the glass. These pieces do not have to be large at all, just enough to provide a secure anchoring point for the foam. 

I hope this helps someone someday.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

Looks like it's all the exact same black polyurethane foam. Just different brands/packaging/distributors.
And prices.


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## EricT (Nov 10, 2007)

I know this is an older thread and sorry to dig it back up ( not really ) 

I have used a black foam called Handi-foam a lot.. almost exclusively actually on a large number of tanks.. some regular great stuff here and there, but always back to the handi-foam. 

The price isn't as nice as GS, but if you buy it in bulk it is actually comparable and it cuts down on having to silicone, as I would spray it down, and lay a very thick layer of background on it and let sit for two days, and I almost always got complete coverage... and if you buy extra, you can always sell , or just keep it in the corner, so it can taunt you and make you build more tanks 

I just got back in to the hobby and redid my 75 and used a few cans of it and looks great. I actually had the 75 sitting around with just plants in it for years, the background was handifoam, and had been in there for at least 6/7 years, and I had to pry it off... Anyhow... I love that stuff,and always recommend it. I used to have a great source for it online, but couldn't find them, so I just went with fosters and Smith.


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