# First Babies - Hand Holding Commencing Now



## Kaity

Yay - So my first tadpoles are showing some elbow if you know what I mean! Super Excited! First Question...

1) How long until I move them to a morph out container. I just noticed bumps where the elbows are last night. I read some people wait until they are more detached but I don't know how fast that happens and dont want to risk drowning them.

2) The morph out containers I have are 7.5"x11"x4". The pic is below. How many tads can I put in one of these? I got these boxes from the Container Store and LOVE it. Super clear and ff proof if you cover up the holes with mesh.

Okay...then to the froglet rearing container. I want to get some more of these boxes to grow up the babies because they are so clear and wonderful...(sorry, I love organizing). Anyway, they have all different sizes and I'm wondering which size you would recommend for both thumbs and eventually tincs. Also, if you could tell me how many I can put in them that would be helpful

7.5"x11"x4"
9"x13"x5.5"
15x13x6.75
15x13x13


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## WendySHall

Congratulations! I am still waiting for _any _type of legs on my tads! I don't have any experience to advise you on your questions, but did want to say that from everything I've read, you may want to rethink putting tinc tads in a communal set-up due to the possibility of cannibalism and the growth-inhibiting hormones that they release. (Boy...was that a long run-on sentence!) So, unless you want to risk a few, you may be better off morphing out tinc tads in containers singly.


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## eldalote2

It takes about a week or so for the tail to dissapear after front legs pop. Don't worry it won't happen over night! In fact, you will be wondering why hasn't it happened yet.


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## Kaity

So they wont drown once they get all their legs? Only once the tail is absorbed?


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## Philsuma

Species?......


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## Kaity

Oops...sorry...I was too excited. They are Amazonicus.


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## GSXR_MURRHEE

I can't find a picture of it right now, but what I usually do is just put something under one end of the container so that it is tilted enough to have a dry area. On this area I put wet/moist sphagnum moss and a leaf or two (or anything they can hide under). This will allow them to climb out of the water and not have to cling to the sides of the container.


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## SmackoftheGods

I use the largest size for all my froglets.


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## Kaity

Thanks! How many an I put in it without risking them stressing each other out?


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## Pumilo

First, a comment on cannibalism. Vents are very cannibalistic so tads should be raised separately. Pretty sure you are doing that. I choose to have each tad morph out in his own enclosure. After morphing I continue to raise each one separately until I am sure they are eating well and well-started. At least a couple weeks. From there I have used plastic shoeboxes, two froglets per. I think this time around I may go with communal 10 gallon vivs with maybe 6 or 8 froglets per.
Doug


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## Kaity

Thanks Doug! I am raising the tads individually but I thought i read that people put them together when they are ready to morph because their mouths are changing??? But I can do it individually just in case. What do you use for the first few weeks while they are growing individually and absorbing their tail??


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## Pumilo

Kaity said:


> Thanks Doug! I am raising the tads individually but I thought i read that people put them together when they are ready to morph because their mouths are changing??? But I can do it individually just in case. What do you use for the first few weeks while they are growing individually and absorbing their tail??


Some people do, but I have heard instances where one morphing froglet has drowned another. Possibly just by accident. They are becoming a different animal at this stage and are rather clumsy, just getting used to legs for the first time. One of them manages to climb out of the water at the expense of standing on his brothers head... So I do individually as a precaution.
Great time to ask though. If anyone remembers my post about getting free Varadero froglets to pay off an old debt, one of the tads I was given is ready for a new home today. So here are pics for you, Kaity. First three show him in his morphing container. Next three show the new home we prepared for his first few weeks or so. (Deli meat container and plastic shoebox with a glass lid)
Doug


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## Kaity

Doug do you keep the morph out container in the incubator or does it not matter at this point?


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## Pumilo

Well, yes and no. My entire frog room is an incubator in a way. I have shut off the heat from the house to the frog room. I have put styrofoam over the windows. I have a Lowes oil filled electric radiator heater that is temperature controlled by a Ranco Electronic Temperature Control unit. A small 8" personal fan circulates the air. This keeps the room between 72 to 74 degrees, (or whatever I feel like setting it at).
Doug


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## Kaity

Whoa! Sounds steamy!


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## earthfrog

Kaity said:


> Thanks Doug! I am raising the tads individually but I thought i read that people put them together when they are ready to morph because their mouths are changing??? But I can do it individually just in case. What do you use for the first few weeks while they are growing individually and absorbing their tail??


I don't have amazonicus but I have imis---here's what I do. 
They _can_ be put in water together after their legs have all popped out and at that point they are generally not cannibalistic. However, they seem to do better singly. 

I just put a piece of driftwood in their container when at the stage you are at, and I feed heavily from the point the front legs form until they pop out as I feel the frog is gaining/growing rapidly at this time. Once the front legs pop, cease food sources, drop off water level to low and put in a climbing help like a stick.


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## earthfrog

Also, a lot of stores are carrying bisphenol-A-free polycarbonate, so that might be a better option than the standard 'critter keeper' tubs. Polycarbonate is a hard plastic, and bisphenol-A is a synthetic estrogen. 

I prefer glass.


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## Kaity

So finally one of these guys had a front leg pop out! Only one though. Do I move him to the morphing container now or wait until both front legs come out? how long after both front legs pop is there a danger of drowning??


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## Kaity

Here are some bad pictures of the one i'm talking about. Of course he hid his leg when i went to take the pics. I will try again later...


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## Pumilo

Wait till the other leg pops. Even then, he'll spend at least a few days in the water. The elbows look good and strong (not like spindly), I'm sure it will pop within about a day.
Doug


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## Kaity

So the other leg is starting to pop out too!! hurray! I'm glad his legs look good so far as I was dreading SLS... Once both his legs are fully out do I stop feeding him then or after he emerges onto land??


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## Pumilo

As soon as their first front leg pops, They can no longer eat anything until the tail is fully absorbed. The tail, and whatever fat reserves they may have, becomes their only nutrition till the tail is gone. At that time, you're going to want to have springtails and melonos on hand. Most of my Red Amazonicus morphed out big enough to take flies from day one, but having springs around is good for any smaller froggies and also just for a second source of nutrition.
Doug


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## Vagabond324

2) The morph out containers I have are 7.5"x11"x4". The pic is below. How many tads can I put in one of these? I got these boxes from the Container Store and LOVE it. Super clear and ff proof if you cover up the holes with mesh.


7.5"x11"x4"
9"x13"x5.5"
15x13x6.75
15x13x13[/QUOTE]

Hi, wondering what these boxes are called, checked out the container website but unable to find these boxes? Thanks, Jon


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## Chris Miller

I grow about half of my froglets up in the largest size of these boxes. I put about an inch of Flourite/Infield conditioner in the bottom, covered with at least an inch of leaf litter and then load it with springs.


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## Kaity

Jon...here is the link to the boxes. I really like them. I actually asked for them for christmas after reading how Chris uses them. Unfortunately they bought me the women's shoe size box not the mens but I think I will just have to put less frogs in each. I'm thinking 2 or 3?

The Container Store > Large Shoe Boxes


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## Chris Miller

Yeah, 2-3 amazonicus would be fine in that box.


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## Kaity

Thanks Chris...what about Tincs...same amount? How long do you leave them in there before moving them to something bigger?


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## Chris Miller

I will keep thumbs in there for several months. 

I don't have any experience with tinctorius, but I think 2 would be fine for at least a month or so.


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## Kaity

Here are updated pics. It's amazing how fast his legs are coloring up and his body is elongating!! Also, does the morph container look okay? I'm worried it is too steep of a climb onto the sphagnum. Should I use gravel instead?


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## earthfrog

Kaity said:


> Here are updated pics. It's amazing how fast his legs are coloring up and his body is elongating!! Also, does the morph container look okay? I'm worried it is too steep of a climb onto the sphagnum. Should I use gravel instead?


He can easily get up onto the sphagum, it's fine. Very nice coloration!

I usually move mine into a small pool in the juvie grow-out tank when they are using both legs well enough and the tail is noticeably shrinking. I also don't feed after the front legs pop out.


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## Pumilo

Kaity said:


> Here are updated pics. It's amazing how fast his legs are coloring up and his body is elongating!! Also, does the morph container look okay? I'm worried it is too steep of a climb onto the sphagnum. Should I use gravel instead?


Before his tail is ever gone, he will be able to climb straight up the plastic side. No worries!
Doug


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## james67

as far as morph containers are concerned i personally prefer to take the tad cups (i use SM glad rounds) and place them in a larger rubbermaid and just tilt the tad container. the froglet will be able to climb out. if not it just wasnt meant to be.

james


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## Kaity

VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! First frog baby ever just climbed out of the water!! He still has a tiny big of tail left but I think that will be gone by tomorrow. He is hoping around and really agile for so tiny a thing. I put his cup in the bigger shoebox so he can take his time getting out of the container. He is so cute and is smaller than my pinky nail. His legs look strong though. I will take a pic tomorrow hopefully. I have about 10 close on his heels too so I will be up to my neck in Amazonicus babies here pretty soon.


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## Pumilo

Congratulations!! Isn't it exciting?! So have you been culturing springtails? Or are you going to be trying stunted melonos?
Doug


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## Kaity

I thought I'd try both springs and flys. I'm not sure if they start eating fly right away so I put a whole bunch of springs in the tub and figured I would try and feed flys once his tail is totally gone.

You're right...I am super excited! When I saw a tiny thing clinging to the side of the cup and jumped up and down and ran around the house!!


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## ritersofly

So exciting! Put me on the waiting list for 2 please!


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## Kaity

Okay...Here are the pics I promised!! Let me know if you think the legs are strong or SLS. I'm thinking they are fine. How long until i should start feeding him ff's? He tail just totally disappeared today.


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## frogface

Grats! He's beautiful!!


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## james67

your froglet has strong and healthy arms, no SLS.

heres a reference pic:

notice how the bottom 2 have significantly smaller arms?









james


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## Pumilo

Kaity said:


> Okay...Here are the pics I promised!! Let me know if you think the legs are strong or SLS. I'm thinking they are fine. How long until i should start feeding him ff's? He tail just totally disappeared today.


Some say they still won't eat for at least a few days, but I like to start putting a few melonos in as soon as tail is gone. When you can see them dissapearing, start adding more.
Doug


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## james67

i forgot to add that you should be careful overloading the froglet with food like springs as this can kill it from stress.

james


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## Kaity

Just thought I'd post some baby pics! I have 11 in the growout boxes now and 7 more about to pop front legs! All of them except one looks good.  That one has always been on the "special" side though...


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## alex111683

They look amazing! Very happy for you.


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## FrogNub

This log is great. Very informative. Basically a step by step.


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## mrfrogdude

Just read this thread. Very informative and useful, as I am getting ready to have my first dart tads.

Thanks!
Mark


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## BlueRidge

Bump this 'cause it's cool


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## Judy S

bumped again...all the information pertains still...and love the "Title"...so many like me need it...


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