# Springtales vs. Mites



## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

I recently had 6 booming galdware containers of temperate springtales going and was able to supplement feedings with them every few days. But rather recently 4 of the cultures got taken by mites. It has been rather depressing. At this time I can't figure out how to keep mites out. I originally started w/ the plastic shoeboxes but they ended up being infested with mites. Then I moved to the smaller gladware containers hoping they would be more airtight but the mites keep getting in. How can I fix this problem?


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

Well, I simply have to say.....MITE PAPER  :wink: .


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

What culture method do you use? 
Charcoal culture is supposed to be more resistant to mites, whereas using coco bedding and leaves is more of a roll of the dice.


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

I was just using Peat and a big leaf. I should probably try the charcoal method one of these days but it seems so hard to get the springs out compared to my method of just shaking the big leaf into the tank.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> I should probably try the charcoal method one of these days but it seems so hard to get the springs out compared to my method of just shaking the big leaf into the tank.


No, much easier. Add water and pour it out into the tank. Springtails float.


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

really....

Then i defiantly have to try it. I will run a search on charcoal method.

Thanks,


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

You have to also look at the food source you are using with the springtails. With any cereal based food you are also going to introduce grain mites which don't predate on the springtails but can compete with them for the food. 
Since I switched to activated yeast I have had no mite problems with the springtails. 
Ed


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

Well I have been using yeast and sometimes mushrooms.


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

I thought I would update this, I switched my springs over to the charcoal method and as of two weeks no mites, and the springtails are booming. They are a little harder to spot as they are not all crowding one area so it gets hard to tell how many you have to know when to feed out, but when i started a new culture with the my first charcoal culture I poured out some water into the new culture from the old and the water was filled with little white dots, which I can only assume are baby springs. This method is a lot easier, and so far no mites.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

One thing about mites---if they are rampant in your vivarium, you should consider that, if eaten in large quantities, they could cause your frogs to regain some of their native toxicity. I'm not sure which species of mites this applies to, but it's enough to make me sure to keep humidity high so that at least spider mites can be controlled:

"Poison dart frogs excrete alkaloid toxins through their skin. Most species are not lethal to their predators, but rather taste foul enough that frogs are released immediately. Dart frogs also do not synthesize their poisons. The alkaloids are sequestered from prey items, such as ants and mites."


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

To be honest I am really not worried about my frogs gaining their toxicity. To be honest I do not handle my frogs at all (even when putting them in a new enclosure). I honestly think it would be cool if they did, but I honestly highly doubt that they will gain it back.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

crb_22601 said:


> To be honest I am really not worried about my frogs gaining their toxicity. To be honest I do not handle my frogs at all (even when putting them in a new enclosure). I honestly think it would be cool if they did, but I honestly highly doubt that they will gain it back.


Purportedly, it is not really an issue, anyway---certain plants eaten by the mites/ants contribute to the alkaloids in the insects bodies, which are then passed along to the frog. Also, you would need to own one of the three really toxic species of frogs and they would need to eat for years before this might happen, AND they would happen to have eaten mites who ate toxic plants. Short of finding out what those plants are if you have a mite infestation, there's really no worry here----I meant this as an interesting tidbit of science to chew on, not a four-o'clock alarm.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Susan, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that feeding any mite can bring back toxicity... "mite" is a very general term for a large group of arthropods... even fed ants in good amounts it doesn't mean the frog will regain/develop toxicity on any significant level unless they are the right types that have these alkaloids in the first place, and are a significant amount in the diet. Take general ideas like that and running with them can also not be a good idea to spread around (especially without anything scientific to back it up) because they are "poison" dart frogs and there are plenty of people looking to ban them thinking they are dangerous. Overly generalized statements are how they manage to do it - I hate to get mean over this but misinformation like this hurts the hobby.

If you're going to follow the trail back to the source, it's actually fungi that a lot of the arthropods were getting the chemicals from, not plants. The aposematic PDFs are the ones that are the most toxic - you don't just need the big three - and any of them in their wild state can be a painful experience.

Please, please, PLEASE be careful how you present information on that type of topic, because it IS taken as alarming information, and I'd also recomend having more solid sources of information on the subject.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

KeroKero said:


> Susan, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that feeding any mite can bring back toxicity... "mite" is a very general term for a large group of arthropods... even fed ants in good amounts it doesn't mean the frog will regain/develop toxicity on any significant level unless they are the right types that have these alkaloids in the first place, and are a significant amount in the diet. Take general ideas like that and running with them can also not be a good idea to spread around (especially without anything scientific to back it up) because they are "poison" dart frogs and there are plenty of people looking to ban them thinking they are dangerous. Overly generalized statements are how they manage to do it - I hate to get mean over this but misinformation like this hurts the hobby.
> 
> If you're going to follow the trail back to the source, it's actually fungi that a lot of the arthropods were getting the chemicals from, not plants. The aposematic PDFs are the ones that are the most toxic - you don't just need the big three - and any of them in their wild state can be a painful experience.
> 
> Please, please, PLEASE be careful how you present information on that type of topic, because it IS taken as alarming information, and I'd also recomend having more solid sources of information on the subject.


Thanks for the info. I am fairly new to this and interested in sharing research, certainly not to sabotage this worthy endeavor. I appreciate your insight and will use more caution in my approach in the future.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Just gotta be careful about something as touchy as "poison" :shock: I've been on the receiving end of a very pissed off person who was very happy to tell me how pissed off she was that people keep such dangerous animals as pets, and encourage other people to do so... even children!

Short and sweet... PDFs that are CB are basically non-toxic. There is a lot of cool stuff about the chain that they are involved in to be toxic like they are in the wild, but it basically does not happen in captivity so it's a non-issue. Techinically, they do have very minute amount of toxins, but they are harmless to humans and that's more of an interest to a chemist. I always try and be clear on this to those interested in them as pets.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

KeroKero said:


> Just gotta be careful about something as touchy as "poison" :shock: I've been on the receiving end of a very pissed off person who was very happy to tell me how pissed off she was that people keep such dangerous animals as pets, and encourage other people to do so... even children!
> 
> Short and sweet... PDFs that are CB are basically non-toxic. There is a lot of cool stuff about the chain that they are involved in to be toxic like they are in the wild, but it basically does not happen in captivity so it's a non-issue. Techinically, they do have very minute amount of toxins, but they are harmless to humans and that's more of an interest to a chemist. I always try and be clear on this to those interested in them as pets.


I would be curious to hear more about why this woman was angry---sounds like one of those that spends all their time gossiping and writing to the editors of every magazine and news article they disagree with. You know, a retired busybody :wink: ...I agreed before posting that bit about the mites, and still agree with you now about captive breds being essentially non-toxic, and I primarily wanted feedback from someone more experienced---I guess I kind of went 'fishing' for a response, so to speak, and I did expect a response like yours, in fact. I wanted anyone who went looking for a risk that dart frogs were poisonous to find this thread and it could put their worries to death. 

If I got anyone mad at me for keeping poison darts, I would tell them plainly that they don't know what they're talking about because they are acting out of ignorance and are not educated on what they're angry about. I would tell them to spend less time sending frivolous emails warning people of things before they check them out on snopes.com and less time griping about life in general. I would further say that if they followed this advice, they might open up healthy communication lines with their husband again (Boy, wouldn't that go off well!). 8)


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

They took the "poison" bit too far... it was at a reptile show of all places, I dunno, I doubt we were the only ones that felt her wrath that day. She wasn't old enough to be retired, I took her more as a misguided PETA person at first or something. Not sure. But it doesn't beat being at the Ed's Fly Meat table when some lady started on us about raising pest species at the ABG FrogDay show. I find it funny that she went after the person who had all their permits for every bug with them and could refer her to USDA to confirm. People need to get facts straight before picking a fight, but honestly those are just angry people that you likely can't change their mind anyways because they will always find something wrong with it (in the fly case, that USDA was letting them do it... bet the lady didn't know the flies are found all over the world naturally).


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

KeroKero said:


> They took the "poison" bit too far... it was at a reptile show of all places, I dunno, I doubt we were the only ones that felt her wrath that day. She wasn't old enough to be retired, I took her more as a misguided PETA person at first or something. Not sure. But it doesn't beat being at the Ed's Fly Meat table when some lady started on us about raising pest species at the ABG FrogDay show. I find it funny that she went after the person who had all their permits for every bug with them and could refer her to USDA to confirm. People need to get facts straight before picking a fight, but honestly those are just angry people that you likely can't change their mind anyways because they will always find something wrong with it (in the fly case, that USDA was letting them do it... bet the lady didn't know the flies are found all over the world naturally).


Well, it's funny when you think that these ladies did have a hobby---it was being annoying pests themselves. Maybe they didn't want competition from the flies...?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

My response more was... what the hell are you doing that you think these guys are pests? By the time a fruit is rotting enough to attract Drosophila... ugh. Then again, they are really Vinegar Flies, not true "fruit flies"... true fruit flies actually are a bit of a pest I believe. They just latch onto a word... 

Back on topic, I've got some cultures that are infested with compost mites (competition for the fungi as food, not predatory) which are pretty awesome (like little walking ballons) since the frogs seem to enjoy them. I now keep the "contaminated" cultures also on mite paper to keep them where they are, and keep the fungi coming... they aren't the grain mites Ed was talking about tho.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

earthfrog said:


> If I got anyone mad at me for keeping poison darts, I would tell them plainly that they don't know what they're talking about because they are acting out of ignorance and are not educated on what they're angry about. I would tell them to spend less time sending frivolous emails warning people of things before they check them out on snopes.com and less time griping about life in general. I would further say that if they followed this advice, they might open up healthy communication lines with their husband again (Boy, wouldn't that go off well!). 8)


I'd just chase them down the road with a poison dart frog in each hand and yell they are coming for you!
Candy


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I've been bitten (repeatidly) by terribilis... the deadliest frog in the world... and lived to tell the tale :twisted: Those who don't know that PDFs are venomous (as in injecting toxins... in thier case biting) think I'm the shit and hardcore, the frog people are like... so what? Not like you licked them.


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