# 180gal "Fallen Log" Paludarium Build



## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

It has been some time in the making, and I hope to get pictures up soon of the build. So bear with me!

*Background:* I have been keeping dendros since around 2000 and have been dreaming of a large "biotope" like paludarium for a long time and feel now is the perfect time to try a system like this. I know many individuals have mixed feelings with true paludariums and frogs as a disaster waiting to happen. I can ensure everybody I have the same feelings with these styles of displays, but feel the time has come for me to create a system that encompasses the entirety of an ecosystem. If at any time I feel the health and safety of my animals becomes to stressful or produces unhealthy specimens they can be moved back to a fully stable terrarium. Because this is the first post, I'm going to keep it as short as possible and go over equipment later on. So hear we go!

*Vision:* To create a peninsula style paludarium that imitates a steam side fallen tree. the dimensions of the tank are 48x30x30 inches and have a central log that acts as the hub for all epiphytic plants. The front and two sides are low iron glass for maximum view ability. While the majority of the setup focuses on the "frog" territory, four to five inches of the bottom will imitate an Amazonian floodplain consisting of about 30 gallons of aquatic flora and fauna. Because of the nature of the frogs intended for this setup, I plan to utilize as much lateral space as possible to limit interaction(or necessity) for the frogs to venture near the aquatic space. While this of course is an improbable desire, plenty of exposed rock and log work will aid any "slips" into the aquatic section for the dendrobatids. Both sections of the system will have complete unity with little to no distinction on where the aquatic section ends and the terrestrial section begins. Because this is a frog forum and not a fish forum I will keep the aquatic sections description limited. The upper portion or the "aerial portion"( how it will be referred to in further discussions) is going to, like previously mentioned, consist almost entirely of epiphytic flora. The back section of the tank is going to be foamed to conceal the pvc for the fogger and aid for mounting locations for other plants. Due to the nature of these systems, highly acidic substrates can but won't be used to keep tannins from leaching into the aquatic section. The lower or "aquatic" section will comprise of suitable aquatic substrates for healthy aquatic plants and fish. Like you might guess, this is going to be a very very very very very humid environment so adequate ventilation is a must. All in all I hope that this will act as a fully functional and beautiful system. 

*Inhabitants* 
*Terrestrial Fauna:* 
either 
R. Benedicta 
R. Fantastica
O. Pumilio
O. Sylvatica 
(morphs havent been decided yet)

*Terrestrial Flora:* the list will be coming soon
*Semi Aquatic Fauna:*
Geosesarma aristocratensis

*Aquatic Flora:* the list will be coming soon
*Aquatic Fauna:*
Paracheirodon simulans
microgeophagus ramirezi
NON SOUTH AMERICAN FISH
celestichthys margaritatus
Iriatherina werneri
(completed list up shortly)

So here it is so far! More posts coming soon!


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## dendrorani (Jan 30, 2009)

Awesome...Looking forward for this build. I love paludariums!


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I don't know if Geosesarma will try to kill frogs if they can catch it.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Im glad. Some people really have issues with these frogs in paludariums, at least the people I come into contact with


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## wimvanvelzen (Nov 1, 2008)

Sounds like a build to follow!


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

pubfiction- that is one of the concerns i'm going to have to observe. As far as I know the majority or pretty herbaceous and should leave the froggies alone.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Wyofrogs said:


> pubfiction- that is one of the concerns i'm going to have to observe. As far as I know the majority or pretty herbaceous and should leave the froggies alone.


Everyone I know feeds them meat. Some claim they won't touch vegetables.


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## Jeremy M (Oct 19, 2012)

I would have to agree about the geosesarma being a no-go. They are highly carnivorous and will hunt down anything that moves that they can catch, including their own young. The thing with crabs is that they aren't gape limited predators and will consequently be able to take prey larger than themselves, or at least try to. Not only would frogs be a concern but they'll go after your fish as well. Even if the crabs don't catch your frogs it would definitely be a source of stress for the frogs to have something that could potentially subdue them in the same enclosure.


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## Hornet (Sep 29, 2010)

It sounds like its one of those setups where you could only do it if your happy to lose specimens to predation, always a risk with multispecies setups like this

Sent from my HUAWEI G510-0200 using Tapatalk


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

I guess I will reconsider the crabs. My experience with saltwater crustaceans has lead me to believe that there truly are herbaceous crab species. Thank you to all who have had experience with them. A cool addition yes, but not at the cost of losing cooler frogs! I will try to find a nice alternative.


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## Hornet (Sep 29, 2010)

There are herbivorous species but all the ones I've kept love meat, haven't kept the ones your talking about though but I know their captive diet involves meat in many cases

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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

So here is what the bottom of the glass will look like. I know its not much right now but I wanted to post just a hint of how it will scale when completed.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

So I finally get to say goodbye to my 46gal bow front overcrowded jungle of a tank.









and welcome in my new layout for this beast of a system! The area left of the drywall square is the floor area of the system.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Just got the tank all siliconed up and ready to dry. Ill be posting pictures later of the build process and materials.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

The silicone used for the build.








Here is the tank after the first pass of silicone. 








Here is my friend for scale.








Starphire vs Regular glass.


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## Giga (Mar 31, 2011)

I love custom builds


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

how in the world do you lift that into place and then also work on it...and get it to its "resting" place...gotta be so darn heavy!!


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Judy S said:


> how in the world do you lift that into place and then also work on it...and get it to its "resting" place...gotta be so darn heavy!!


The tank is 3/8" glass so not as heavy as it could be. And yes, 30" high walls will be a challenge to work on the bottom of the system. I did make a "theoretical" plan on how to clean everything but when put into practice might not be as effective. The main log display will be the central hub for all terrestrial plants for ease of clipping and pruning.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Wow it has been way way way way too long since I've posted any pictures of the system. Here is some of the photos of the build so far. Sorry for the poorer quality shots, it has only been photographed with the trusty iphone. I hope they are all in order!
Stand being built








Stand with first coat of stain








Stand finished








Size comparison. Thanks roomie








tank all set up with first water test








Tank drilled and ready to mark the pilot holes








Bulk heads added with the fogger pipe set


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Round Two!

Don't mind the blue bulbs in the fixture. They are going to be changed tomorrow 








Front view








Far side view








After planting the aquatic section the fill.








As it sits now. CO2 in place with timers set and ready to go.


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## hoyta (Jan 18, 2006)

This thing is amazing man! Well done


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Tons of potential!


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Ok so again it has been waaaaayyyy too long since I posted update pictures. If you have read the beginning of the thread I wanted to do the aquatic section first. Well here are some pictures of the lower aquatic section. Apologies for the algae growth, My metal halides were turning on for two weeks straight at 2am and off at 6am. When I finally caught this the damage had been done! So here they are!

























And For any of you reef junkies out there as well, here is the beginning of my saltwater "Paludarium" with the 36" red mangrove!


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## Mrbeans (Mar 11, 2007)

I cant wait to see the finished product. Looking really good!!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

What is it so close to the tank? A fireplace? 
If it is, I do not think it is the best place for a tank with fish... And with all that water it is not very suitable for dartfrog. It is my opinion, of course.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

This has all of the makings of an excellent setup. I too, can attest to the great gusto with which geosesarma crabs will consume meat. Watching them catch and decapitate crickets before feasting on their remains is a major trip. Those dudes really relish in the kill.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

rigel10 said:


> What is it so close to the tank? A fireplace?
> If it is, I do not think it is the best place for a tank with fish... And with all that water it is not very suitable for dartfrog. It is my opinion, of course.


Haha Great Point! Im living in Arizona, and from Wyoming... so do to a high threshold of temperature tolerances that fire place has been ignited maybe once and only used to burn mail.  Thanks for your concern on the fishys and froggies!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm sorry, I had not noticed your location. And I know a lot about Arizona! (I love western movies).


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Ok so I wanted to post a size comparison of the tank to a viewer sitting about two feet away from the system!


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Wyofrogs said:


> Haha Great Point! Im living in Arizona, and from Wyoming... so do to a high threshold of temperature tolerances that fire place has been ignited maybe once and only used to burn mail.  Thanks for your concern on the fishys and froggies!


Cool! I love arizona a lot, and quite frankly I could use a trip down that way soon. I am getting sick of the weather over here! A foot of snow on may 10th was kinda my breaking point


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

***UPDATE TIME***

So here is a video of my fogger in time lapse. It has been a journey figuring out the mist thickness. Im afraid that the fog produced is too thick resulting in respiratory issues for the the future inhabitants. If any of you have advice that would be great. P.S. I haven't yet put the glass tops on, so the mist will fill quicker than in this vid. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCAUBIemRss&feature=player_detailpage


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Stunning viv!


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

I love the turbulent wave effect of the fog. I know it's not "natural", but still an interesting effect in the video.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

I wanted to post an update of the plants and species currently residing in the paludarium. I am sorry that not every plant is mentioned, but I hope to have the majority on this list. I will post pictures of some of these plants in a few weeks.
*Terrestrial Plants*
Aechmea orlandiana
Neoregelia 'Chiquita Linda'	
Neoregelia 'Inca' x 'Fireball'	
Neoregelia 'Red Eye'	
Neoregelia 'Tiger Cub'
Neoregelia lilliputiana	
Neoregelia maculata	
Neoregelia wilsoniana x 'Fireball'	
Tillandsia usneoides	
Asplenium antiquum 'Victoria'	
Dischidia complex	
Sphyrospermum cf. buxifolium
*Semi Aquatic Plants*
Eichharnia crassipes
Ludwigia sedioides
Neptunia aquatica
*Aquatic Plants*
Hygrophila pinnatifida
Blyxa auberti
Hygrophila sp. Staurogyne
Ludwigia ovalis
Nymphaea rubra
Blyxa japonica
Bolbitis heudeloti
Microsorium wendelov
Ammannia bonsai
Bacopa amplexicaulis
Ludwigia repens
*Aquatic Fauna*
Paracheirodon axelrodi
Carnegiella strigata
Xiphophorus helleri
Jordanella floridae
Betta splendens


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Alright things are really on the way now! Here are some pictures to show the time between stages. 
*1*
Before anything living was in.








*2*
The aquatic section starting off.









*3*
The terrestrial section freshly planted.


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

Very nice build! And it seems like you got the algae under control now. I'm having some trouble with hair algae on my paludarium. What is your lighting cycle and do you have any advice on getting rid of the algae?


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

rabu92 said:


> Very nice build! And it seems like you got the algae under control now. I'm having some trouble with hair algae on my paludarium. What is your lighting cycle and do you have any advice on getting rid of the algae?


So that is the million dollar question... Ill give you two answers for two different lighting schedules that worked for me. On my tank i'm running two 15k 250w metal halides, two Giesemann midday, and two Giesemann aquaflora. If you are only having troubles with the hair algae thats easy, but just knowing my own tanks problems when one algae surfaces many others are right behind. The first schedule only involves the t-5 bulbs the second is the halides and t-5. How many gallons is your aquatic section, are you running Co2, and what are you dosing for fertilizers? Fertilizers will help in the reduction of algae frankly, and the fact of the matter is most algae's can feed off very little fertilizer making them a prime candidate for over growth.

1. T-5s Only 
It is a 10 hr cycle starting at 9am. If you are already run a similar cycle, cut back by an hour or two. If your plants starting suffering I would look into hydrogen peroxide, but be very very careful. On one of the planted tank forums there is a great article on how to clear up algae with peroxide.

2. T-5s & Halide
10 hr cycle same as T-5s but at 12pm 3hr every other day for the halides until the algae subsides. I also am dosing everyday. This lighting schedule will change as the terrestrial plants grow out due to coverage. 

If anybody else has some insight on what fixed their algae please post them also. Again like mentioned earlier, this will change as my plants get acclimated and grow in. I hope this helps!


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

Wyofrogs said:


> Fertilizers will help in the reduction of algae frankly, and the fact of the matter is most algae's can feed off very little fertilizer making them a prime candidate for over growth.


Thanks for the info, I did not realise adding ferts would actually help to reduce algae. Also I'm not using CO2, I wanted a very low maintenance build. (this is the thread)
As for now, my lighting is probably overkill. It's running at 13hrs a day LED light, not sure about the lumens or wattage because I have it dimmed. Also in the morning I get about an hour of sunlight on the tank, which probably isn't too good neither.
But actually the aquatic part isn't getting that much light because of the duck weed. So maybe I should have more intense light for shorter periods instead of low light for long periods?


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Maybe I've already answered this question somewhere else, but I have had excellent results years ago using in my old tank fast-growing plants (such as cabomba and egeria) and in my second tank Seachem Excel.


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## Wyofrogs (Sep 25, 2011)

Yeah SeaChem Exel has worked well for me too. Forgot to mention that.


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