# Viv/terr start.



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

After two weeks of cleaning a 55 gal I bought at goodwill I will finally be able to start the actually vivarium. I have been pondering how to get water from one side to the other underneath the false bottom. It didn't seem hard until I actually built the pieces. I was planning on doing a terrace with it being higher on the left side and going down on the right side. Should I add foam or glass on top of the egg crate to stop water from reaching the substrate. My plan is to have a waterfall on the left hand side going down to a pond that drains naturally into the reservoir. I am doing a custom background that I will be starting after I get the bottom set.

Side note. I live out in Tucson and was wondering if anyone knows whether mesquite tree is a decent tree to use for branches. I have a few good pieces (will take some pictures later) but not sure whether anyone has tried it before.


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Hey Venom,

I live in Tucson as well. Not sure if Mesquite branches work; I would be a bit worried about the sap the tree naturally produces... I do know that cholla skeletons work great. I have put a bunch in my viv and all my plants develop great root systems in them. Just make sure that you bake the pieces b/f you put in your viv.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I baked the mesquite tree branches. They are all long dead. I would say they have been chopped for around 6-8 months. Can you show me pictures of your tanks? Also I have a few ideas but I don't have anyone that can teach me close. If there is any chance that you might have time to look at my basic plan sometime once I build most of it?


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah if the branches were cut a while ago you should be safe regarding the tree sap. I would def be willing to help you. I have only built 1 tank so far and it doesn't have a water feature so I'm def not a pro.I'll post some pics of my tank tomorrow after work; maybe it will give you some ideas.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Alright sweet. Ya one is better then none lol. I just finally finished cleaning my big tank and i didn't realize the person below me had a tank sitting out. So as I dumped 55gal of water out I realized it and felt so bad =(. But ya My water feature has been modified because I actually already build my fale bottom to have room lol. So once I get my false bottom set properly I will then post a Picture to see what everyone thinks. O btw what do you house?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I just finally cut the hood to my tank. It needs mesh now to cover the hole. I got the glass cut. (dont use a razor blade to cut the silicon off does not work.) But soon as I get the lights im going to put mesh where the glass once once. They are to not allow animals to get out plus it wont reflect the needed heat/uv.

I also went up into the mountian yesterday can got pine bark and branchs. I got an over abundance but w/e its better to have to much then too little right lol. 

I have developed a few questions for everyone. First and foremost is once I make my waterfall with silicon and rocks do I need to add epoxy to make it waterproof or no? Also if i do a great stuff background will I need to epoxy it also or no? There are more questions but its late where I am and I wanna go to sleep. If anyone is wanting to put there input thats fine. I will be attempting to take pictures and post it all tomorrow. Night and thanks for reading ^^


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Just my false bottom so far.


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Pictures as requested. Viv has been setup for 4 months now. Tank will house a probable pair of vanzolini; they arrive next wed!

I used eggcrate on all 3 sides, and wrapped each piece in root deterrent sheeting. Added silicone to panels, then great stuff. Afterwards I applied more silicone and then cut up coco fiber (took FOREVER). Lastly I also stuck in cholla pieces and 4 film into the background while it was still setting. 

For the lighting I stole everything from this thread.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...ct-fluorescent-hood-construction-journal.html

Heat has been a major issue and I would recommend adding computer fans if you go this route. I have a tube running fresh air into the tank from a small aquarium pump; helps cool things down a bit and keeps the air fresh too. Hope this gives you some ideas, let me know if you have any questions!


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Gorilla Glue and my Mister =P

























Just some updates. I had to use rocks to hold my pvc down. Took all night. Today I plan on baking my pine bark and then Gorilla Glueing it to the styroform, and also getting the false bottom put down =P


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

I wouldn't use the pine bark, the resins may harm your frogs, and they'll still be there long after the tree is dead. Try to find some cork bark oak, or like I did, just find some regular oak in the woods. Oak is well known to be safe and beneficial.


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Looking great so far! I agree with RMB regarding the pine bark, Mt. Lemmon has oak trees. Went up last week, lots of field sweepings collected as well thanks to the recent rains. What do you plan on doing for your substrate mix?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Well I currently at a standstill on my substrate. Its one of two combos.

Combo 1: cocohusk (brick) + spagnum moss with a 4"-6" rock drainage layer.

Combo 2: spaghnum + black sand mixed together with a rock drainage layer.

Obviously both will have a few inches of leaves. 

I am currently leaning towards combo 1 just because it will be less expensive and the river I am making is going to be using the black sand.


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## maxdendros (May 29, 2009)

Heres what I use and it works excellently for holding microfauna,

.5 Part Horticultural Charcoal

.5 Part Tree Fern Fiber

1 Part Eco Earth

1 Part Coco Chips


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Were can I get the charcol or the tree fern bark?


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

When I started building my tank I didn't do enough research into the differerent types of substrates. If I had I would have given more thought to clay-based substrates. If you haven't decided on your substrate yet I would definetley read this thread.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/22990-ultimate-clay-based-substrate-thread.html

Not sure which pdf's you are going to put in yours, but the benefits of calcium and clay in a substrate seems to have some merit for a number of reasons; substrate breakdown over time, frog mineral intake through bugs/ground particles etc..

Since if I remember correctly you are adding a water feature the clay possibly could help keep the substrate from turning into a bog; just some ideas for you to think about.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

This is the background to one side. 

































just an update


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

So I decided to use Eco earth, spaghnum moss, clay, and if i can find it charcoal.


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## xsputnikx (May 11, 2010)

curious of the outcome looking good im in for pics


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Let me finish gorilla glueing the terrarace before I take pictures. The substrate wont be down till monday cause I got to find some clay dirt and some stupid charcoal which I cant find ANYWHERE =P


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Update now that I have gotten the terrace glued I will post what it looks like prior to the river being added.

































This is with the waterfall/river bed I have going so far. The back panel is gonna be grouted a black/grey color and the river and waterfall is between a clay red or a black/grey also. I am going to be carving the gs till i have to work. Then I am going to finish it sometime by the weekend.

















All opioions are welcome ^^


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Alright so im stuck. How do I make the GS covered in grout without it being ugly? or flaking?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Update.

This is the background for the middle between the wood.









Pictures of the river

































For the river rather then using grout and silicon and spending tons of money I am going to us Brown Silicon I found at home Depot today and spread sand on it. Anyone think that its a bad idea?

Pond


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

looks good, curious to see final product


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

So I added the substrate and some wood. Unfortunatly I my girlfriend took the cord to post pictures. So I will have to post them later tonight.

I used 2 cups eco earth, 2 cubs peat moss, 2 cups orc. bark, 1 cup coal, and 3/4 cup white tennessee clay. =P looks good. See once the moss starts growing though.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

As promised pictures. I will be getting plants soon as moss starts to grow in and I get a few more peices of wood. I am also getting glass for the top today.

Creation of river.

































River added to the terrarium.

















































Pictures of my Tucson Banded Geckos. Just thought I would show ya'll why I started building it.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Now my question I have been pondering for some time. What frog should I place in this enclosure? I was thinking P. Terrabillis "Mint" due to there size and there tolerance. But any other suggestions? Remember I am new so I dont really want a thumbnail.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I can't wait to see this finished. I have a feeling it's going to be really cool.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

bought 4 plants today. 1 from petsmart for 4.99 which was a start light. The other three didnt have names but one was a lucky bamboo from the look and the other two are unkown but I only payed 3 bucks for the lot so I figured w/e lol. O an got 1 new piece of drift wood. I will be taking pictures tonight after I come back.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Alright as promised my update. I will be getting a few more plants today from petsmart just because it is buy 2 get 1 free and they have neos =P

Starlight.









Lucky Bamboo









Probable Tillsdalia









Unknown Plant.









Random Pictures =P


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

HAHA so I couldnt wait to take pictures so I decided to take some before my power hour (Turn 21 tomorrow but got 2 hours tonight to start) =P

My right side is empty atm because I am saving some money and gonna buy a 5 pack of broms off dartfrog mega stores and 5 tillsdailia. Also gonna see if I can find a good piece of wood that I like to place 2 of the broms and 2 of the tills to. If I find it I will take a picture and show yall.

Complete Left side.








Right Side (Blank as of Now)
















Left Side showing a the broms I got at petsmart today.








Back wall where water/pond is at.








Top view showing other brom. They are actually nice looking plants. Hard to believe lol.


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## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

For your 'probable Tillsdalia' (tillandsia)', I would say it's Dracaena sp. ?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

So I bought two sheets of glass from home depot for like 13 bucks total. Only bad part is its sharp on the outside. Anyone got a cheap method to make a holder type thing so I can stop getting cut lol


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I wrap the edges in electrical tape.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I mean something permenant that wont look getto lol =P that way I only have to do it once. That is a good idea for a few weeks


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## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

Emery paper ? (dunno if it's the good english name)


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

SA_Ka_20 said:


> For your 'probable Tillsdalia' (tillandsia)', I would say it's Dracaena sp. ?


That is exactly what i was thinking when i read the 'probable Tillandsia' haha


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks for the input. I was looking at picks and that was what I guessed but you guys give a much better idea. Thanks you ^^ Anyone know exact species of Dracaena that it is?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I guess I should update it... So in july I moved into my girlfriends mom's place and had to move this gigantic (and flipping heavy) 65 gal tank... As most of you could guess the water was not completely drained and flooded to one side (Thought I had got it all out)... That in turn made the dirt get moist and you guessed it, MUD SLIDE =P... so I got it to her house and we cleaned it up (Lucky the plants in the substrate were resilient and when removed and added to a bucket with water they flourished.. So cleaned and fixed my tank looked pretty good UNTIL I added the water... because I hadn't cut the pvc to help water flow in and out of the pipe they bowed and collapsed which I still find unbelievable... Anyway I didn't bother fixing it until 3 weeks ago right before I moved.... I was given a crap load of slate from a friend and when I helped his son build a tank I figured what the hell I will try to rebuild mine... So I tore every thing out of the tank and completely cleaned it out... (I thought my african fat tailed geckos were gonna go in there till sunday when I bought my azureus)... anyway I have rebuilt it with the same plants and all and am currently looking at obtaining 4-5 more frogs for this tank... once I get it planted more and get more wood I will be posting what it looks like... currently looks alright but thats cause I have an african violet, lucky bamboo, a croton, and 2 I currently dont remember.... I am potentially buying 10 broms, 5 tillandsias and 2 vines from neherp and once they arrive I will plant and take a few pictures to see what yall think =P until then thanks for reading and hope you have fun frog loving ^^.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Pictures!.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

So I ordered my plant yesterday from NEherp and I must say they are quite spectacular people =P They are helpful and really try to help you out if you need it... I would order from them all =P... I should have pictures up sometime next week with the broms and tills I ordered... I will show yall what it looks like ^^


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I have pictures but cant get them up yet... gonna find cord after B.O.B. concert tonight =P hopefully yall will like what I have done atm... should get more clippings from joshk tomorrow if he ever respondes to my PMs =P


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)




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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

BTW if someone could ID the vine on the bottom pictures much would be appreciated... seems to be growing like wild fire in the past 2 weeks


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Suggestions and helpful hints are welcome... I will be waiting about 1-2 months before introducing the frogs... gonna be Azureus


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Looks great! I'd watch that bear though. He looks like he's up to no good


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Its actually a monkey =P he is trying to kill my god forsaken puppy... so if anyone wants a puppy holler at me =P its a shitzu/yotkie mix


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

So I went to JoshKs house today and he gave me tons of plant clippings and some springs to seed my 65 gal tank. I will be getting a few Azureus from him. Now however after seeing his tanks I am buying one with 4 Bahakis and my gf is buying a tank with two Auratus from him lol sneaky man >.<... Anyway I will be planying more tomorrow lol mainly mosses and some broms. I will post after my first class in the morning so everyone can see ^^


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Just a quick update. I ended up moving most of the plants around because I had placed them too close to my water area and the evaporating was saturating the woods way to much causing the broms to rot. So after I moved everything a few weeks ago I am getting tons of roots popping out. Once I find my Girlfriends camera I can add some photos as all my plants are starting to turn red and color up spectacularly. The tillis seem to be turning brown and cant figure out why. They are close to the light and never have standing water on or near them. And the random plants I put in there are starting to take over. Mainly the freaking wandering jew.

I will also take a some pictures of my 20gal high for my azureus that resides in there. He seems pretty happy in there now that I have added 5 broms.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Hey ... u said ur broms r turning red ... how many total watts of light do u have on that tank?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I just have two 6500k watt bulbs in a catalyst from home depot. Light setup costs a total of 20 bucks I think =P.. And not just only are my broms coloring up but my coleus both have vibrant color and my african violet planted into the substrate is also flowering for the 5th time this year ^^. The bamboo is also starting its process of flowering which is pretty nice to see and so I should have it splitting and dropping soon. But alas the only real issue I have at the moment is the tillis. One is redding up and the one that pupped is growing nicely but 2 of the others are browning a little at the tips but like previously mentioned I can not figure out the reason they are choosing to do that.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Wow ... WTF! Congrats to you my friend! ... bc I have 4 6500k lights; totaling 110-120W, in a 50gal and my mini-neofireballx broms aren't getting their red AT ALL! They just stay green. Lol ... plants grow in my tank, but not very fast, and for some reason, my pothos aren't really growing @ all in this tank ... so good job ... atleast one of us has good luck! Lol. ;-)


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

well how often does your tank fog up? My tank has a straight glass... My plants were refusing to show color until I stopped misting daily and switched to every 3 days. That also gave them time to recuperate and to absorb more rays from the light. Big issue I was having before with watering everyday was my plants would retain to much water on them and 1) obviously die but 2) reflect the light. So I would water less if I was you and just go to homedepot get there 6500k lights and just place the fixtures across the top of your tank. Light sits directly on glass and it doesn't get hotter then 77.9 on the bottom and I think 81 at the top (But I am getting azureus so I am not worried about the top because I haven't seen any climb on less young)


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

My tank is all glass too, but there is also a fan in the tank (for my jewel orchids) that kicks on for 15min every 2hrs. I mist only once to twice per week. The lights I have DID come from home depot, and are prob the same ones u have! The lights are on for 13hrs a day.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I have my Lights on from 6am to 9:15 pm. The fan might be drying it out to much and causing them to not produce the red. I will post pictures once I get out of class. And is your light ON the tank or raised?


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Mine are on from 10am to 11pm ... the 48" shoplight is elevated 2-3in off the top of the glass, but the other two 18" strips are sitting directly on the glass ... if I leave the shoplight on the glass it raises the temp to almost 80F (at the bottom) and I'm not too comfortable with that. My broms don't hold water at all ... I pour it in and it drains immediately, but I do fill it everyother day apart from my misting. I don't think its the fan, but maybe I just chose bad plant selection bc some plants are more tolerant of the moisture than others, although nothing is dying either. The soil feels moist to the touch but is by no means at all damp or wet. Do I need to get rid of the jewel orchids (Ludisia Discolor & Mecodes Petola) in order to keep the tank more damp? (Although my humidity never drops below 90 percent and is usually high 90s ...)


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I am taking care of a friends tank that has 2 jewel that are growing rampant and he has NO fan to be honest. I think you should have the light on for 14-16 hours a day. More light means the plants will grow much much better. I would try places the 4' shoplight on the tank and removing the 18" ones. See if that helps ^^


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Ill try leavin them on longer. I'm not too sure about removing lights bc the shoplight will only give me 80w total which is less then 2w per gallon n I've read I should have it between 3-4w per gallon. I was actually considering getting another shoplight!


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Just because people say one thing doesn't make it right. I will take pictures and you can be the judge of whether it is right or wrong. But for me it works well. btw how far are your broms from the light source?


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

They are on the lower part of the tank mounted on the wood. But the floor is also elevated by about 6in or so bc of the false bottom ... see my new 50gal post for pics.


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