# Odd coloration on Tarapoto Imi



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

A couple of Tarapoto Imi metamorphs are displaying a very odd patterning - or rather as it states in the title - a lack of patterning/coloration.










These frogs are very young (you can see the tail nub on the dark one), and I know that they will gain coloration with age - but with the exception of the tip of the nose, the Imi on the left has no signs of dorsal orange patterning. During development - these guys didn't show the typical coloration I was expecting or like the one on the right that showed "normal" color development. There is another one that has more of a tail left, but still the same coloration.

These are Phil Tan line Tarapoto (not the most recent INIBICO).

It will be interesting to see how they develop.


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## Jungle_John (Feb 19, 2007)

dude that is awsome! i hope you dont sell them and i personaly would like to see if it stays black. keep us updated:-D


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Definitely odd. I would guess that these will fall one of two ways though... either color up fairly soon or not make it much longer. My thought (and it's only a thought) is that if the "discoloration" is a sign of any true abnormality and they don't color up soon there might be some kind of genetic problem which would prevent them from getting older (kinda like a mutation). At any rate, congrats, must be a nice week in the frog room there... Lomas... tarapotos... what else?? :lol:


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## xfrogx (Jul 5, 2006)

Wow that's pretty wild.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

sbreland said:


> Definitely odd. I would guess that these will fall one of two ways though... either color up fairly soon or not make it much longer. My thought (and it's only a thought) is that if the "discoloration" is a sign of any true abnormality and they don't color up soon there might be some kind of genetic problem which would prevent them from getting older (kinda like a mutation).


To be honest - I wasn't expecting them to get this far. But so far - they are doing fine. I am hoping that they get some color - what fun is a black Imi? :lol: 



sbreland said:


> At any rate, congrats, must be a nice week in the frog room there... Lomas... tarapotos... what else?? :lol:


My fingers are crossed for a healthy Striped Understory Retic by weeks end - just waiting for the fronts to pop - and hoping they look strong. I will post some pics if it happens.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Nice, maybe I'll join you in some of these woohoos in a few weeks!


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## mattmcdole (Nov 28, 2006)

Judging by the picture, I wouldn't say they have a lack of pattern at all. You can see faint gray reticulations on the legs, which may suggest a lack of pigmentation instead.

I'm no expert, and amphibian pigmentation seems to work much differently than other animals. But I thought I'd throw that out there since nobody else had mentioned it.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

You are right - the leg patterning is there. And with a few more days - I anticipate the leg color to approach that of the normal froglet. In the picture it appears slightly gray - but it is a hint of blue in real life.

It seems to be only the dorsal patterning that is absent. I am definitely not an expert on pigmentation - so I tried to be as vague with the description as possible. I haven't taken the time to closely look at the ventral patterning coloration yet. I will check it out this evening and post back.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Wanted to update this thread with some fresh pics. So - it is about 2 weeks after the first pics - and not much change in the coloration.

Normal Tara:









Dark Tara #1:









Dark Tara #2 (morphed about 5 days later than the first two)









Another tara froglet just morphed with typical coloration.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Oz
What has Amanda said about her experiences with them? any similar froglets?

S


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## Jungle_John (Feb 19, 2007)

they are so cool! i think your lucky to have somthing like that happen (i wouldnt try to breed them like that but its fun to see and watch) keep us posted


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

my 'black' Rio Branco male....came in with yellow RB imports 2006.

similar isnt it?

S


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

sports_doc said:


> Oz
> What has Amanda said about her experiences with them? any similar froglets?
> 
> S


I can't remember if I sent Amanda a link to this thread or not - we can talk about it this weekend though.

I did talk to Phil about it (Amanda got the frogs from Phil) - and he hadn't seen anything like it before. The frogs originally came from Tor - so I will ask him as well.

I did get a PM from someone (sorry, can't recall the name) who has bred quite a few Taras - and said that some morph darker than the others - and there was a pic in a FrogNet gallery that had a darker colored Tara - but there was still some dorsal pigmentation.

I have no interest in "line-breeding" this trait (if it is in fact a trait) - but just thought it would be interesting for people to see and watch the progression. If it is completely normal, it will be good for future froggers who might encounter it.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Cool.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Some picture updates at ~2 months out of the water. Sorry for the dark pics - but I didn't want to brighten them so that they were representative of what they really look like (they are really hard to find in the leaf litter). Camera and flash settings are the same for all pics.

Dark Tara 1 - This one still has a completely black back










Dark Tara 2 - This one has a bit of mottled gold coloration on the back - but it is very broken - and not as bright as on a "typical" colored froglet.










Here is a froglet at about 6 weeks with more typical coloration for comparison:


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Dang, I'd love some of those. :shock: They're beautiful!

~Ash


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

hey Oz,
just out of curiosity, at what temp were the tads kept?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I keep all of my tads in the frog room - so room temps vary somewhat with the seasons - but usually in the low to mid-70s - occasionally into the upper 70s - so the water is probably a few degrees cooler.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i have witnessed dark froglets morph out when they were kept on the higher end of temps and brighter at cooler ends, so it could be that somewhere along development the temp swing produced more melanin.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I guess it is a possibility - but very slight - as the earlier pics of the froglet with typical coloration was from the same clutch as one of the dark ones, and morphed within about a day of one of the dark ones. I keep all tads of the same species within a single shelf in my tad racks - so environmental conditions between the normal and dark colored froglets were, for all intents and purposes, identical.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I split the discussion around my tad setup into a new thread:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=34487


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

New Year's update (~3 months out of the water)

Dark Tara 1:








The flash really "washed" this one out - but it brings out the pattern/coloration. I am not an expert on pigmentation/coloration at all - so maybe someone else can chime in (Ed, Corey) - but it seems like these frogs are lacking iridescent phores. If you look closely over the eyes in the orange/yellow area - you can see flecks of brighter pigment.

Dark Tara 2:









Side-by-side comparison of a "normal" and a dark colored froglet (just to show that camera settings aren't responsible for the difference):


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## JWerner (Feb 17, 2004)

OZ - 

Interesting. Three monthsd ago I had a very dark yuri tad. It morphed well and was much like yours. Not as dark. Right now, it is almost sub adult and the colors have finally started to develop. 

Jon


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

The Occam's Razor explanation here is hypermelanism, is it not?

How many clutches have you got from this pair, Oz? Was this an early(ier) clutch?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I have gotten a few clutches from this pair. The dark froglets are from one of the first clutches to survive from hatching to metamorphosis. I have morphed a couple since with normal coloration. I have more tads in the water, so it will be interesting to see if they show up again.

Tor mentioned to me in an earlier conversation that he observed similar froglets in some of the early clutches from his WC pair (I believe it was WC, but I need to verify that) - but he hadn't seen it in further pairings (F1, F2, etc.). These frogs are all descendants of that WC pair.

As for the hypermelanism - as I mentioned before this isn't my area of expertise. However - in the areas where the coloration should be - there isn't any extra black pigment - however - a lack of "color". If you shine a bright light on their back - you can see the pattern - but it only obvious as a lack of black pigment.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

It's not hypermelanism for just the reason Oz mentioned. To me it looks like a lack of iridiphores (or "iridescent phores"... you get kudos for being close kinda ) this is especially noticable in thumbnails that seem to have the majority of their coloration (even the yellow, orange and reds associated with xanthophores in other species like pumilio) actually done by iridiphores (which are crystalline structures so they can refelct basically any color). If you've got pigments that are mostly iridiphores and a genetic quirk that reduces/stops iridiphore development... you basically get something that would look like what these froglets are... 

I wouldn't be suprised that the development of the orange area may get a little stronger as they age - they do have some xanthophores - but I wouldn't be suprised if they never got full colored.... Jon is this what you are seeing, or are you seeing all the colors develop?

I wouldn't be suprised for a hypermelanistic juvie to outgrown it for the most part (happens with a number of juvie reptiles) but if it lacks iridiphores then I'd be suprised for it to be fully normal in coloration at maturity.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

hey Oz, any updates on those black froglets?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Yeah Julio - the most recent pics were from 1/1.

Oz


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

that last one looks like a darkland pumilio!


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Update - 9 months out of the water


















This may (hopefully) be the final update - as they may be donated to be used for mate selection studies.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

How big are they in comparison to frogs of a similar age?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

One of the two is larger than the other - and is on par with my other Imitator of the same age (just about adult size). The other is a little smaller in all proportions. More the size of a 4-5 month old juvi.

The offspring produced by this pair seem to grow slower than my nominat Imis. They are voracious feeders - but just don't grow as quickly. But - they are the only pair of Tarapoto that I have raised offspring to adulthood from, so I have nothing to compare it to (whether this is unique for this pair, or common to this line of Taras).

I recently had another "black" froglet morph, and I have one growing up that has about half of the normal pigmentation evenly distributed.


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