# P. Vittatus overpopulation?



## Toof (Oct 22, 2009)

So I recently acquired 6 P. Vittatus which are approx. 7-8 months oow. I have them in a plastic tub while I build a tank for them. They are thought to be 3 males and 3 females. I hear calling several times a day. They have been raised by the breeder together with 5 others, so they all get along so far. My question is what size tank I should build for them. I was planning on a 18x18x24H. Can I keep all 6 of them together in there? Will they utilize vertical space or stay on the ground? If they truly are 3 pairs will this become a territory issue? Thanks for the help.

Shawn


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Thats way to small....... From what i've read try something like I have, a 65 gal tank. Every 10 gals = 1 frog or so


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There are real problems when recommending any gallon/frog requirements.. I suggest reading through this thread to see how it breaks down as the size of the enclosure increases.... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/3449-mixing-multispecies-exhibits.html

Ed


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## Toof (Oct 22, 2009)

Wow Ed, that took a good 30 minutes to read through. A lot of good info though! I understand what you are saying about the the amount of space being utilized on the ground and the background, etc. That is why I was asking if the Vittatus spend time climbing or mostly on the ground. The breeder I got these from had a breeding group of 4 in the 18x18x24 exo. I am planning the same size exo for my frogs and I build my backgrounds with several tiers on both sides and the back. This provides many hiding places, plants, and visual barriers. I know some darts do better in pairs or 2.1 groups, and some do better in large groups. I am new to the P. Vittatus and don't know their specific requirements. I am willing to split them up if I need to provide them more space. Like I said these frogs were raised from froglets in a group of 11 in a standard 10 gallon and seem to have developed quite well despite the dense population. I certainly don't intend to keep them so densly populated, but doesn't being raised together reduce the potential aggresion, etc. between them?

Shawn


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

i have 5 in a 40gallon and they all are fine and lil piggies lol


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## Toof (Oct 22, 2009)

HunterB said:


> i have 5 in a 40gallon and they all are fine and lil piggies lol


Have you sexed your 5 frogs? If I truly have 3 of each sex, is this going to create any social problems?

Shawn


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

i have not but have never seen social problems yet....id say mine were still a month or 2 away from breeding age but idk lol they explore and eat all day and i never hav any problems with em


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## Toof (Oct 22, 2009)

Any special requirements for their viv? Should I focus on usable space in the background? Do they climb?

Shawn


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

I keep my vittatus in a male heavy group. I currently have 5 in a 20 gal, who have been together for a couple of years now.

I also keep auros in a 20 gal as well. I have a 2.4 which has been together almost 3 years and are producing healthy froglets.

You should be alright if you set up the viv properly. You never know how the group dynamics will work out until you try it. In some cases i have small groups of frogs in very large vivs, and in others a small group in a smaller viv...it all depends on the frogs there sex ratio and how well they adjust to the viv.

If you do end up with a 3.3...I would separate them into pairs. You'll have the most luck with them this way.

Good luck


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## Toof (Oct 22, 2009)

Well, I suppose I will keep them all together in the Exo until I can get a definite gender on them all. After I know what they are, I can make some further adjustments. Thanks!

Shawn


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I had a group of these in a 75, and I rarely saw them nine inches off the substrate....but the back ground was mainly just a huge slab of cork bark so not alot to perch on other then the plants growing off the floor and the drift wood bridge over the water feature along with drift wood through out the tank. Here is the Tank they were in...basically i rarely saw them above the top of the water fall in center, sometimes perched on top of it...










As our tanks are rarely more then 10-20 inches high measuring from the surface of the substrate to the tank ceiling(my 75 in the pic only has about 14 inches after you deduct the heigth of false bottom+substrate layer)... and most darts are atleast arboreal enough that they will at times venture a foot off the ground i think its always a good idea to have "levels" where ever possible. The more levels the more usable space in a squared area.

When i started on DB years back the general wisdom seemed to be 5 gal min per frog but I think most responsible keepers are leaning more towards 7-10 min per frog with average sized and smaller darts and 10 being the min for larger species...probably 15 min for trivs and other really big very athletic darts.

For Vits at their size and after owning them, I'd say 6 in a very well planted, very multi level 30 I think would be ok, other wise i'd error on the side of a 40 on up. 40+ would be better though. I had 4 in a 75 and I'd still see atleast 1 at any given time usually.

They did hang out in the mid level of the tank alot so I would incorporate rocks and/or driftwood on the floor along with a background that had many good perches on it. And a few plants that are sturdy enough to support their weight through out the viv. Broms are always a good choice.


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## Toof (Oct 22, 2009)

Dave, that tank is awesome! I wish I had a tank that size for all my frogs, but my wife barely tolerates the space I take up now with frog stuff. Like I said, I will plant this tank well and include lots of hiding places. If I notice any problems I will pair them off.

Shawn


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Toof said:


> Dave, that tank is awesome! I wish I had a tank that size for all my frogs, but my wife barely tolerates the space I take up now with frog stuff. Like I said, I will plant this tank well and include lots of hiding places. If I notice any problems I will pair them off.
> 
> Shawn


Thanks!  Its kinda gone to hell...overgrown and some of the lights need more bulbs but its about to get fixed up in the coming weeks/months. 

I personally find a few large tanks easier to care for and more enjoyable overall then a ton of smaller ones....at the peak of my dart frogging i had about 50 frogs in over 20 vivs....To Much work...now it will be a half dozen large tanks, maybe couple small/mid size tanks and under 30 frogs. 10 or so of my most favorite species/morphs.


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