# Imitator viv



## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

I ordered a sexed pair of R. Imitator 'nominant' from Ron at Alpha Pro Breeders They should be here on wednesday, ill post pictures on this thread when they arrive 

I wanted something a little more secure than my last vivarium, so instead of a sliding door I used hinges this time. I also used a 5 inch bottom barrier instead of a 3 inch one so that I could have a deeper substrate. And I only put a single 1 inch vent at the top, because my last tank with two vents (one top, one bottom) cant hold humidity at all. I didnt have enough of the plastic nuts and screws to attach both hinges and the three latches. Ill be getting those soon.









For the background I did the kitty litter method. I mixed the kitty litter with a few handfuls of clay from about a foot down under my yard, hoping to add some mycorrhizal fungi and beneficial bacteria. The yard is free of pesticides and fertilizers, and uphill from the neighbors, and the area where I collected the clay has been under landscaping fabric for over a decade. I also added ground up long fiber sphagnum, peat moss, and coir.
I wanted to give the background more texture and places to mount plants, so broke up some cork bark flats and pressed them into the clay in the back portion of the tank (what would be the aquarium's bottom if it wasnt a vert).









For the right side, I decided to sculpt the clay to add surface area and places to plant so I sculpted a tree of sorts. Too bad the plants obscured it after planting, but oh well.









Here is another picture of the clay 'tree'









For the substrate I experimented a little. I wanted it to be deeper than I normally go, but I wanted it to still drain very well, and I wanted A LOT of surface area for springtails to breed. So I mixed peat moss, long fiber sphagnum moss, orchid bark, coir fibers, coir cubes, coir dust, kitty litter, sand, aquarium charcoal, and "flourite" aquarium substrate. I have no idea what the ratios would be, it was just a handful of this, mix, add a little more, throw in some of this, mix, add a little more of that, etc until I was happy with the look and feel of the mix. I added these all dry to make it easier to mix.









Here is a couple of links for flourite aquarium substrate if anyone is curious about it.
Seachem. Flourite Red
Substrate for Freshwater Planted Aquariums: Seachem Flourite Planted Aquarium Substrate

Then I went outside and collected some maple leaves and boiled them. I also boiled some tulip poplar leaves, but set those aside to use as my top layer of leaf litter. They are more durable than the maple leaves and more tropical looking than oak leaves IMO. I let the maple leaves cool, rinsed them with cold water, and shredded them before adding them and water to the substrate mix to get this. The maple leaves will break down faster than oak leaves, providing a lot of food both for the plants and the springtails. 









Before adding the substrate mix, I made sure to push clay down into every crack between the false bottom and the sides of the tank. I put down a half inch layer of the flourite aquarium substrate, a quarter inch layer of orchid bark, and 2 inches of substrate. I also filled in flourite the front of the tank to the same level as the layer on top of the false bottom, to hide the false bottom. I mounted my N. 'Ampullacea' to a piece of cork to stabilize it. In this picture I was trying to see where I wanted to put it while the maple leaves cooled.









Next step was planting the tank. I ordered bromeliads from Mike and Katie at New England Herpetoculture - Home a few weeks ago and cant recommend them more. I got 3 N. Chiquita Lindas, 1 N. Ampullacea, 1 N. Olens, and 1 N. Olens X Fireball, as well as 2 tillandsia Ionantha Mexican, and 1 Peperomia metallica 'Colombiana'
I also took cuttings off of 2 of my orchids from Andy's Orchids - Orchid Species - Orchids - Species Specialist - Orchids on a stick. In this tank I used a tiny cutting of Pleurothallis grobyi, and a cutting of Epidendrum (Dinema) polybulbon. I also had some plants around the house that I used, including java moss, creeping fig, Hoya sp (carnosa rubra maybe?), rabbits foot fern, a cryptanthus, Pellionia repens, Scindapsus pictus, Syngonium sp, an unknown grocery store bromeliad and Dischidia ovata. The tips of some of the broms dried out a little last week when I neglected to mist them for a few days while filling in some over night shifts at work... oops.

This picture is from the left side of the tank, during planting.









This picture is from the front during planting.









This picture is from the front looking down after planting is finished and the top layer of leaf litter has been added.









This picture is from the left side the day after planting.









This picture is from the same side, slightly different view.









In this picture I was trying to show both the front and the side view to give a better idea of the three dimensional layout of this tank. With a Mtn Dew bottle for size reference, because the tank looks bigger than ten gallons to me in the previous pictures.









Another 3D shot, only with more of the side showing than the front.


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Looks great - well done. I always dread having to do this kind of job but after it's finished I allow myself a little pride . You should too!

Ron's got some nice frogs - enjoy those guys.


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## Alpha Pro Breeders (Oct 13, 2008)

Their going to love that tank, nice job!
Alpha Pro Breeders


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Good Job ... it looks great!

How did u like using the clay background?
I'm going to be working on a 45gal hex for some Varedos soon and I'm still trying to decide on what background I want to use ... I'm not too keen on the whole clay idea bc I don't mist my tank often (1-2 per week), and I'm worried about it drying out or cracking and collapsing on me. Just doesn't seem very safe or permanent IMO.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks guys! I just got done seeding it with springtails and tropical woodlice that I got from Tropical Ecos. I bought them about a month ago and kept the 1lb containers in the dark, feeding fish food every few days and misting maybe once a week. The springtails are Collembola sp, tropical, white, and reproduced like crazy. The woodlice are T. tomentosa, also tropical, also white, but seem the be reproducing less quickly than the springtails. 
I was pleasantly surprised to find smaller blue springtails and some type of detritivore nematode in the woodlice culture, so I ended up adding a small handful of the substrate from the culture to the vivarium under the leaf litter instead of picking out the woodlice one by one like I had been doing.

Now im going to set up some shoebox cultures of both the springtails and the woodlice using the left over substrate mix from the vivarium build.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Gamble said:


> Good Job ... it looks great!
> 
> How did u like using the clay background?
> I'm going to be working on a 45gal hex for some Varedos soon and I'm still trying to decide on what background I want to use ... I'm not too keen on the whole clay idea bc I don't mist my tank often (1-2 per week), and I'm worried about it drying out or cracking and collapsing on me. Just doesn't seem very safe or permanent IMO.


I love the clay background, this is my second one so far.
The first couple of weeks, I mist lightly and try not to hit the clay directly too much because it takes a little while to set. But after that moss, fungi, roots, and bacterial biofilms hold it together and it stays durable. As long as there is enough clay in the mixture, it holds its shape and wont collapse. If the tank is humid enough for darts, the clay will hold up long term. Ed has a clay vivarium that has been up and running for like 5 or 6 years.

The whole clay idea started with discussion of the natural composition of soils from the frog's natural ranges. Search for and read the ultimate clay thread, using the search feature at the top.
Here are some links to read:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/58175-grimms-twin-build.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/60202-my-10-gallon-clay-background-build-2.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/59651-10g-vert.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...day-weekend-build-clay-background-method.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/54887-i-love-clay.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/59655-15-gallon-tall-future-imitator-vive.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...new-vivarium-construction-pics-imitators.html


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Good Job ... it looks great!
> 
> How did u like using the clay background?
> I'm going to be working on a 45gal hex for some Varedos soon and I'm still trying to decide on what background I want to use ... I'm not too keen on the whole clay idea bc I don't mist my tank often (1-2 per week), and I'm worried about it drying out or cracking and collapsing on me. Just doesn't seem very safe or permanent IMO.


I really don't think that the lack of daily misting will present you with any problems. It's not that a clay background needs constant misting. It just needs humidity. You are going to keep your viv humid enough for your frogs, therefor your clay should be fine. Plus, the 25% organics that you mix into your clay will help hold moisture.

Okapi, Nice job on your new viv! Looks good. You are going to love your imi's from Alpha Pro. Ron sends out big, well fed, healthy frogs. I got my Varaderos from him. The post office screwed up and they took two days to get here instead of overnight. Didn't matter a bit because Ron packs them so well! 
Doug


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Idk ... it just worries me a little bit that's all. I'm torn between doing clay or GS ... both would be my 1st time. I've only used cocoa fiber mats but with thumbs they need more levels to climb so that wouldn't work in their tank. (Or would it?)


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

The more surface area for the frogs the better. I dislike the GS method myself. Takes too long, the construction process smells, and plants grow roots on it, but not into it. 
Experiment with smaller tanks and do lots of research to find what works best for you.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I have a clay background tank that has been empty of everything except the clay and some creeping fig, since moving my frog out of it a couple months ago. Since it's empty, I haven't been misting it. I did leave the lid on, though. 

I looked at it today and found that the clay background is still perfectly fine and the creeping fig has really been growing out. I did give it a mist, today, for the fig. 

Oh yea, nice work on the viv!


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Awesome viv! imis are going to love it, imis are by far my favorite frogs of all, they just have so much personality and are so bold.

I like the clay work I have yet to try it but it looks pretty fun


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks for all the kind words everybody. 
Everything just kind of fell together in regards to this vivarium. I ordered plants from a few different places after being inspired by different vivarium builds, and happened to see the bromeliad sale that http://neherpetoculture.com/ was having at the time, so I ordered an assortment of broms, just incase I decided on a species of dart that needed broms. I was debating which species to get as my first dart, and couldnt decide between R. Imitators, D. Auratus, or D. Tinctoris. I listened to different calls, watched youtube videos, read countless articles... Then my boss happened to give me off a saturday out of the blue so I decided that I would see what frogs I could find at a show a few hours away. I made a thread about the show asking who would be there and www.AlphaProBreeders.com happened to reply, so I got to talking to him and decided to buy from him instead of wasting the gas money. I bought fruit flies and culturing supplies from him to get ready then started on the vivarium. I cannot wait for wednesday to get here.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Looks great man, so have you abandoned the fake tree for now?


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

yeah, Id rather do the tree idea in a bigger tank, plus the one I carved got on my nerves... The one I carved was in 5 pieces, because I carved the trunk to fit the 10 gallon then added the roots with tooth picks. The roots fell off every time I tried to do any work on it and I couldnt pull it out of the tank, or put it back in, with all of them attached. After I had the end of a toothpick go under one of my fingernails and a piece splinter off under my nail while working on the tree I decided to shelf the idea until I carve a solid tree in which the roots are a part of the trunk, not just attached to it.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

I got the frogs today, they are more beautiful in person than any picture can capture. The male is the boldest of the two. I put him in first and he checked out every square inch of the tank in like 30 seconds time. He moved so fast it was like he was teleporting from one leaf to another. The female hid under leaf litter while the male explored. She peeked out at me every once in a while, but didnt really seem interested in exploring until the male noticed her hose poking out from under her leaf. He saw her and did a kind of twitching motion to get turned around to better see her, then dove down to the leaf she was under from near the top of the tank. They made little jerking movements I guess sizing each other up before he lost interest in the situation and went back to exploring. She seemed dissatisfied with that and started following him around the tank. Every time she notices me watching she always goes back to the same hiding spot. As i type this Im looking for them but they have both disappeared either into the leaf litter or into the back corner bromeliad.

Here they are in their deli cups









Here is the male

























Here is my index finger pointing at him, hes tiny









Here is my thumbnail next to a thumbnail XD









Here he is, hopefully checking out future nurseries 









They are hard to photograph... They seem to know when your about to snap a pic and move









He keeps coming back to this leaf. Maybe a future calling site???









And here is the girl, right before hiding for half an hour









And now, as I finish typing, she is near the top of the vivarium surveying her new habitat, and he is bouncing along the leaf litter eating flies that I put in for them before I started typing.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Quick update:
The male has a chosen brom (the one above the hoya sp) that he spends 90% of his time in. He has also started calling. It is barely audible unless I am practically against the glass of the tank. The female will watch him and come closer, but once he notices her and looks at her, she usually runs away and he chases her. He stops every once in a while to call, but its like shes not interested after he starts the chase.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Congratulations!


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks! Im guessing he just doesnt know what to do. I have a magnetic algae scraper on the glass to clear off condensation which I keep in the top right corner of the side of the vivarium. He was sitting on top of it calling a while after I made my last post. She came to him but he just sat there calling repeatedly. She even climbed on top of him and he still didnt do anything. So she went back to hunting flies. He called her back 10 minutes later only to sit there and stare at her when she climbed up next to him. He must be shy around the ladies...


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think he's playing games with her. Today I watched my El Dorado male lead the female all over the tank, only to have her lay eggs one leaf over from where they started.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

They look great! I just want to point out that they aren't really tiny. At least not for a thumbnail. You should see them as froglets!! Now that's tiny! What you have is actually a really good size for an imitator. Ron sends out really nice sized frogs!!

That said, just one thing to add, "They're cuuute when they're tiny!" That's why I love thumbs!
Doug


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Pumilo said:


> They look great! I just want to point out that they aren't really tiny. At least not for a thumbnail. You should see them as froglets!! Now that's tiny! What you have is actually a really good size for an imitator. Ron sends out really nice sized frogs!!
> 
> That said, just one thing to add, "They're cuuute when they're tiny!" That's why I love thumbs!
> Doug


Yeah, I do know that they arnt small, and I didnt mean it if I made it sound like Ron ships out tiny froglets. Mine are mature seven month olds in perfect health, plus his customer service was top notch the entire time. I was merely trying to say that the macro focus pictures you see everywhere dont really give you a chance to appreciate how small of an animal these frogs truely are until you get to see them in person. Ive seen tinc family frogs in person multiple times, but those are monsters compared to these guys.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Update time:
Bromeliad a few weeks ago, turning what I thought was a deep red:









Bromeliad today (1-10-11) Now THAT is red:









All but one of my bromeliads are pupping:









Orchid flower, going on three weeks old.









I added some tree fern pieces to hopefully germinate some South American moss spores









And Ive never seen Java moss take on this orange hue:









The rabbits foot fern died back, but seems to be doing better now









Java moss thriving, green flame moss died out, peat moss popping up everywhere, sphagnum moss popping up everywhere. Its hard to see, but every square inch of the clay is covered in fine little tufts of peat moss. Phone's camera just washed it out.









Another picture of the orchid flower:









Mom and egg, the male seems to have no interest in it









Side shot:









front shot:









Trying to get a better view of the egg









The bromeliads had no problem rooting in the clay. I know there was a thread a while back asking for pictures of broms growing in clay:


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

That orchid looks like dinema/encyclia polybulbon to me. Awesome they have great flowers.


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## wesly2007 (Jul 6, 2007)

what r you using for lights on that thing?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow! Eggs already! Grats!
Doug


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

fleshfrombone said:


> That orchid looks like dinema/encyclia polybulbon to me. Awesome they have great flowers.


It is, you recommended it to me a while back and answered all my questions when the leaves started turning yellow after it was shipped to me from Andy's Orchids. This is a cutting off of the that plant.



> what r you using for lights on that thing?


A single spiral florescent bulb. If I remember right it is the 100 watt equivalent and is either 6500k or 6700k. I have a few fireball hybrids in this tank and I wanted to make them red. Ironically the non-fireball neo is turning the most red



> Wow! Eggs already! Grats!
> Doug


Thanks! So far thats the only one ive seen. I cant get a good enough look at it to tell if its fertile. I have to bend the bromeliad leaf and shine a flashlight at it just to see it. Its over a week old and hasn't started molding yet, so Im taking that as a good sign.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Okapi said:


> It is, you recommended it to me a while back and answered all my questions when the leaves started turning yellow after it was shipped to me from Andy's Orchids. This is a cutting off of the that plant.


Oh yeah that's right, completely forgot about that. Well I'm stoked that it's doing so well for you.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Great looking viv......Imis are on my list toget....


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks! This is actually its second flower, I gave the first one to my mom when she came to see my house around thanksgiving


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## Kaity (Sep 18, 2010)

Okapi - I'm curious where you got your little white door closures? I cant even figure out what to call them to do a good search to source them!


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Either lowes or home depot in the window repair section. They are made to hold window screen frames into place during summer months and framed plate glass into place in the winter months. I really dont know what they are called.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Kaity said:


> Okapi - I'm curious where you got your little white door closures? I cant even figure out what to call them to do a good search to source them!





Okapi said:


> Either lowes or home depot in the window repair section. They are made to hold window screen frames into place during summer months and framed plate glass into place in the winter months. I really dont know what they are called.


That is just a universal style screen clip. You can find that at any hardware store in the window hardware and screen section.


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## frog22 (Sep 8, 2010)

Looks really nice, well done.


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## Kaity (Sep 18, 2010)

Thanks guys! I found it!

12-pack Black Nylon Turn Clip by Prime Line Products - PL7906 - More Screen and storm window parts at doitbest.com


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Do you see what I see? 









He/she isnt photogenic so this is the best shot I could get.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Hey man.... any updates?


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

eos said:


> Hey man.... any updates?


Its past its glory days... The higher up broms and their adult pups eclipsed the lower half of the tank so very little grows down there. It will also have to be redone soon because scale insects are killing my broms.

FTS (door closed):









Door opened:









Bright up top still:









Without the camera's flash these pictures would have very pronounced light and dark areas.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Okapi said:


> Its past its glory days... The higher up broms and their adult pups eclipsed the lower half of the tank so very little grows down there. It will also have to be redone soon because scale insects are killing my broms.
> 
> FTS (door closed):
> 
> ...


Good luck getting the ficus pumila off, lol! That's what I find cool about vivs, how everything really starts to grow (devil face/laugh)
It looks really cool!


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## soldier (Sep 7, 2011)

Wow that loks awesome when everything is groeing in like that! Also like the pic saw the little guy hanging out in there!!


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Okapi said:


> Its past its glory days...


No way... I think it looks great. 'Nature' has taken its course and it looks good.
Thanks for the update!


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