# I got my first tad!



## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

So, as some of you know, my P. Vittatus has been carrying around a sole tad on its back. Well, I checked the canisters again today and it was laid in one! So I've pulled it and it's in a 4oz plastic cup with the water from the film canister and a little more bottled water. It's in only about 1/2" of water right now. I honestly don't know how old the tad is, or where the parents laid him. It wasn't in any of the canisters or petri dishes. But anywho, I'll post photos as soon as I have access to my computer. He seems quite active at the moment, but I've only had him out for about an hour. I'm going to post my progress as I go along in this thread, so I hope you all can talk me through it as I have my first go with this. 

My first question is how much to feed. I have tadpole bites and fish flakes. Spirilina should be in tomorrow or the following day.

Thanks so much!
Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Congratulations!!


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks! Here are some photos.

This one is just to mainly show you how much water he's in at the moment. I'm a little confused as far as this goes. I've hear of people saying you can't put too much water in with them, but I've also seen people use 32oz FF CX cups half full with them. So, I don't really know where to go with the water. Until tomorrow, he will be in this little bit. 









And here he is. I missed focus. -_-









Thanks again!
Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I still have no idea where these guys are laying their tads, but I've got another one carrying a tad around on it's back!  I've seen no eggs, no tads in any of the water around the tank. It's really puzzling to me!

Thanks for looking!
Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Well, as it turns out, the one I've got hopping around with a ad on it's back actually has two on there! Hopefully they'll be laid today. 

Mark


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## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

Woohooo.. congrats! Jealous


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## Newtnerd (May 4, 2011)

Congrats! I can't wait for the day when i see my first egg/tad... This hobby will either make me very patient or drive me insane haha. we'll see. Good luck with your new babies!


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks everyone! The next two tads were finally laid too!  By this time, they're at least four days old. One is about 2mm longer than the other, though. 










Mark


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Congratulations, Mark! I think the most important advice at this stage is to not overfeed the tadpoles. They are very small at first and only eat a tiny amount of food (I use Spirulina only for tads up to about a month old, as the algae is less likely to make the water polluted). Also, as the tads age, you can increase the water level in the containers.

Good luck with them, Richard.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks. 
Can they start being fed tadpole bites this early? Ive got some, and more coming in Monday. Also, how often do you think should feed them? I've planned on every third day for now.

I will be getting in some more FF cups Monday and they will all be transferred to their own 32oz culture cup then filled half way with RO water, with a peice of Indian almond leaf and a plucking of java moss for some oxygen.

Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Grats they're beautiful 

I feed my tads a rotation of fish flakes, crunched up dried blood worms, and, spirulina. There are lots of options and opinions. Here's a good thread on tad food.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/66675-favorite-productive-tadpole-food.html

eta: wait, that's not the right thread. I'll look for it.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I was looking around and I was thinking: do you think it would be acceptable to set up a ten gallon tank just for the tads, and keep them in there with a good bit of java moss and maybe one or two full almond leaves? I haven't looked into this type of setup much, but I would think water conditioning would be much easier and the parameters would be much more stable. And, since my particular batch is communal anyway, I would assume it would work. Since I've only got the one species, wouldn't mind doing this.


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## jackxc925 (Dec 22, 2007)

Markw said:


> I was looking around and I was thinking: do you think it would be acceptable to set up a ten gallon tank just for the tads, and keep them in there with a good bit of java moss and maybe one or two full almond leaves? I haven't looked into this type of setup much, but I would think water conditioning would be much easier and the parameters would be much more stable. And, since my particular batch is communal anyway, I would assume it would work. Since I've only got the one species, wouldn't mind doing this.


Certain types of tads have known to cannibalize each other


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Right. But I believe that my Vittatus are a communal species, as tads and frogs, and would be fine. That's why I ask.

Mark

EDIT:


> A few days to a week after the eggs hatch (which occurs in thirteen to seventeen days), the male will allow some or all of his tadpoles to crawl up on his back (Savage 2002). In captivity, the male has been observed to sit on the egg jelly and stamp his feet, after which the larvae wriggle onto his back (Polder 1976). Travis (pers. comm. cited in Silverstone 1976) also reported that the male shook his posterior in short bursts of four to five shakes to stimulate the larvae to crawl onto his back, with the process of tadpole uptake lasting about ten minutes. He then transports from one to thirteen larvae at a time, carrying them for 1-2 days, to a water source; in the wild, this consists of a small forest-floor puddle, or water in a fallen palm frond, or a tree-hole (Starrett, pers. comm., cited in Silverstone 1976; Travis, pers. comm., cited in Silverstone 1976; Savage 2002). Conspecific tadpoles are not aggressive towards siblings (Polder 1976


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## jackxc925 (Dec 22, 2007)

Markw said:


> Right. But I believe that my Vittatus are a communal species, as tads and frogs, and would be fine. That's why I ask.
> 
> Mark
> 
> EDIT:


In that case I would recommend you avoid moving water as much as possible. But it could be made into an interesting display viv if you integrated a small grow out section. Kind of like a riparium/paludarium but 3/4 full of water.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Congratulations on the tads. I do hear my males call more frequently and are a bit (not much!) more bolder. Can't wait to get my first tads from them. I have a bunch of azureus and leuc tads I am raising now myself in containers. I am running out of room and was wondering the same question as you have brought up as for the 10 gallon tank. Good luck with the tads and keep the pics coming!!!!


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

jackxc925 said:


> In that case I would recommend you avoid moving water as much as possible. But it could be made into an interesting display viv if you integrated a small grow out section. Kind of like a riparium/paludarium but 3/4 full of water.


That's exactly what I was planning. If I get alot of them, I may even do a 20L instead. In fact, it may be better for them if did a 20L instead. It would allow more horizontal space rather than vertical, and allow for more gradual increase to the land part.



Colleen53 said:


> Congratulations on the tads. I do hear my males call more frequently and are a bit (not much!) more bolder. Can't wait to get my first tads from them. I have a bunch of azureus and leuc tads I am raising now myself in containers. I am running out of room and was wondering the same question as you have brought up as for the 10 gallon tank. Good luck with the tads and keep the pics coming!!!!


Thanks! Thats great. My males are more bold as well. They seem to like to watch me as I go about my business. I'll have one at either end of the viv watching me with a blank stare as I go about my business. It's quite entertaining. I've got at least 5 males in there, and they are ALWAYS calling. Even when the male was carrying tads, he was still calling up a storm. I'm really enjoying these guys.

Oh, and what would you recommend for a substrate?

Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

How about this for the substrate?

Amazon.com: CaribSea Midnight Black Floramax Premium Aquarium Substrate: Home & Garden

I really don't think gravel is a good idea. It's rough, the food will get lodged inside without any current, and it's just not exactly appealing to the eye. Besides, the plants wil do much better in this, andi think it would be better for the water quality for the tads because of all of the good minerals in it. 

Thanks,
Mark


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I raised 6 D. tinctorius tads in a 10 gal, pond style tank. I had a profusion of stacked slab stones and a bunch of java moss in with them. The stones were covered in live algae, and I supp'd them with very small worm bits. I would baster waste off the floor about once every 3 days. When they were intro'd into the pond tank as tads the water was approx. 4". It evaporated a bit(enough for the stones to break the surface in multiple places) over time, which I feel encouraged metamorphosis.

I gave 2 away, which are doing great with the male calling regularly as I have been told. I kept 4, 3 are great, 1 had SLS. Best of luck!

I have a thread with pics of my pond style tank, "living aquatic substrate" should find it using the search function if you are interested.

I will look for it later anyway...

JBear


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

That's a great thread to read along with! Very cool indeed! I was thinking more along the lines of something like the attachment below, though. With a ground level that is accessable at all times. I don't like the idea of evaporation because I know that when the water evaporates, it leads to higher nitrates in the water. This is basically the wast building up and becoming more concentrated in the water, which can never be a good thing. I'd rather it take the extra week or two to morph and know it's completely healthy than to be rushed and worry about internals not being fully developed. I don't know if this logic even applies here, but I used to raise Axolotls, and encouraging them to morph was never a good thing. The tank I have planned would be fully planted, unlike the one attached.

Thanks,
Mark

PS. The photo attached is NOT mine. I snatched it off google.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I was doing partial water changes(not too often), but allowing the level to lessen as a means to provide opportunity for the froglets to emerge on ground and not glass walls. You make a great point in intensifying nitrates by evaporation. Thanks!

Glad you enjoyed the read!

JBear


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Yeah. Im hoping the design I've listed will eliminate he need for lowering the water.they will have constant access to the semi-dry land on the left.

Any idea on substrate? I dont really thing like the one I've listed. But I'm definately open to ideas. I'd like to get this up ASAP. I'll probably do a 50:50 or 67:33 substrate:sand ratio, though. Think that will work fine for plants..

Mark


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## d1rocchino (May 16, 2011)

Those look amazing i cant wait for my first cluster of eggs


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks!

Well, I found another clutch. I do believe they're all bad though. 










Mark


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Markw said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Well, I found another clutch. I do believe they're all bad though.
> 
> ...


They look good to me! It looks like there is embryonic division taking place. I wouldn't be too hasty! Lol! Thanks for the pics!

JBear


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Woah! That's great news! I thought the eggs were supposed to be clear! Well, I'll keep an eye on them. Thanks for replying. If they were still white today, I was going to throw them out. I really hope they're fine. Now I'm faced with a decision. To pull or not to pull. I haven't seen the dad tending to them, but maybe it's just that time in their development that he doesnt go to them. I'll keep an eye out now.w

Thanks so much again
Mark


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

The male will return to urinate on the eggs to keep them at the right level of moisture, and will "tend" to them much more as they become closer to hatching. It really is an amazing behavior to observe! You could take a pic a day of the eggs, and this should be direct evidence of either growth/development, or nothing doing. Best to you, thanks for keeping us updated!

Another point I forgot to add, you have a male carrying tads and tads in the water, this would lead me to think they have gotten it right, and I would consider this a good indication the eggs are good.

JBear


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Well, two weird things are going in with the eggs. First, they're turning brown. They're clearly a lit tan color in the photo, and they were in reality. Now they're pretty much all brown. None have molded yet. Second, there are only seven in the canister. I think I can distinctly count ten in the photo, ut there are only seven in the canister. The jelly looks untouched, though. Odd.

But, on a good note, the three original tads are doing great. They're quite incredible swimmers. 

When do you think it's safe to Say they're, sadly, done and to pull them?

Mark


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## Dart66 (Aug 24, 2011)

First tads are the best lol


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm moving these guys into a temporary container instead of the small, 4oz cups. It's a 190oz tub from Joshsfrogs. It'll hold them until I decide to get the larger tank up, running, and cycled. So, it will probably be their only enclosure until they are ready to morph out. But, the good tank will be ready for the next batch, for sure. 

Here they are temp-acclimating. It's only a difference of 2F, but I'm sure they'd appreciate acclimating first. Please excuse my ridiculously blurry photo.









Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

The guys all look to be doing well. Still actively swimming when I tap the side of the bin. I also found these guys in the viv today!

Still in the jelly, but they look like they're ready to pop any time now. I can't see any type of easily-visible yolk sac...









This lone tad was wriggling about in about 1/4-3/8" of water on the underside of a leaf, instead of in any film cans or water troughs.









Mark


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