# Shiny New Aurotaenia



## Onagro (Jun 9, 2006)

These little guys just arrived a few hours ago. I would normally wait before snapping pictures, but this guy just took a pose.








I like this shot so much, it is now the image for P. Aurotaenia in the wikipedia.


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## roberthvalera (Jun 9, 2006)

Are these Darrens gold stripes? I was stunned when I got mine, photos dont do the speckling on the legs justice. Very underated frogs.


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## Onagro (Jun 9, 2006)

No, they are "reds" from Kleinhanz here on the board who got them from Paul Davis (I think). The stripes are this metallic orange-red in person. They are calling after just a few hours, too! They are just spectacular frogs.


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## ChrisMc (Mar 7, 2004)

I believe these are "wideband" aurotaenia. I also have a group from Paul and they are kinda variable in color. Some are golden yellow striped while an other is a more dirty orange color. They are a smaller phyllobates, all of mine are around a year and <30mm.


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

These are indeed offsping from Paul Davis. I heard they were calling them "wideband" but then again the horseshoe marking never fills completly in. They are "Green" aurotaenias which throws varible colors. 

If you look on the auro caresheet, the 2nd and 5th pictures are mine. The top one is another morph I am working with, but the 5th frog down is what these guys are. I have been debating if the title is wrong here and notified the Mods that is may be mislabeled. I still have 5 of these guys and are over a year old and their backs are not solid in color so I assume they are standard "greens".
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23320


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## Onagro (Jun 9, 2006)

Thanks for clearing that up, Rob! Regardless as to what morph they are, they are still great frogs. I assume the coloring takes a while to fill in like the solid colored phyllobates. Perhaps if Paul Davis has some older adults (2 years old and up), he can take some pics and show if the back fills in. There are speckles on the legs, but my camera isn't exactly good at picking subtle colors.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

That adult narrow band in the care sheets looks like a narrow wide band cross. none of mine ever had that much color on the back and the back legs had blue and silver spotting. 
http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/aaronsfrogfarm/england.htm
The wide bands I had sometimes filled in on the back but not always. they mostly looked like the "narrow" band adult in the care sheet. I`ll have to try and dig up some old pics of them too.


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

^ That would be great. I'll try to snap an updated pic of my greens so you can see what the backs looks like now. Not a clean horseshoe but some of the colors bleed onto the back. Like I said, I heard these called widebands but I am not sure.


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

OK, I just snapped these two shots. Now that I see the pics, I say they are widebands. Man, I should take more pictures of my frogs so I can see what they look like up close :lol:


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## Onagro (Jun 9, 2006)

Those are some great shots!


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## rickmcdole (Oct 1, 2006)

I second that...amazing shots of absolutely beautiful frogs. You really captured the colors, even in the speckling.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Aaron, I have to disagree with you here... the couple of dots on the head are more color than most of them get, but that's not a sign that that particular frog is a cross. If I remember correctly, I know it's not. Lugubris, which have similar pinstripes, also can develop spots on the head in some individuals.

Unfortunately, there are auros out there that have less than spotless records. I know there are yellow/green hybrids out there, some of which were thought to be wide banded - I have one in my collection and I know she is definately not what people thought she was. This is what a full adult wide banded auro should look like. If it doesn't look like this, if it's not from Tor's animals or another just as clean source (straight from the imported animals), then a hybrid is a possibility.

The first photo in the caresheet is a pure green auro. The last photo in the caresheet is a 6 month old juvie wide banded from Tor's group. The animal has colored up a huge amount since then, and looks very similar to the linked pic from Tor's site. kleinhanz - how old are the animals pictured? I hate to say it, but they look more like my hybrid than they do the pure wide bandeds I've worked with. If they are breeding adults, there is no way they are wide bandeds.


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

Very helpful, Thank you!



> kleinhanz - how old are the animals pictured?


The group I have now (ones I posted a pic of) are about 1yr old and have not started breeding yet. Not sure if that is too soon for the color to fill in or if this is their mature color? Ornagro's Auros are a bit younger than this.


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## ChrisMc (Mar 7, 2004)

I was told that the parents of my frogs are descendants from Tor's and we all have the same source so its unlikely this is a cross.


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## Onagro (Jun 9, 2006)

Okay, now I'm confused. Are you guys saying that most of the wide-band Aurotaenia are crosses? 

There is an auro at the top of this pagehttp://www.thebdg.org/library/frogspecies/p__aurotaenia.htm that looks pretty similar to these guys and Midwest Dart Frogs' "gold" Aurotaenia are from the same breeder but labeled a different morph. I'm betting they are red/orange when young, then fade to a lighter shade of gold/orange? with age. Does anyone here have any adults from his breeders to confirm/deny it?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I had a group of wide bands and only one had that much yellow, some still have a wide horseshoe and not a full gold back hence the name wide bands not full gold backed :lol: sorry,that would have sounded better after a few beers at IAD then you could see my playful facial expression. :lol: These were strait from eu also.
If I get a chance I`ll try and dig up some old pics, as that`s all I have of them now. Actually guyelcaminos were part of my original wideband breeding group and darren`s narrowbands came from someoone who got theirs from me so maybe there`s still hope.
These last green auros are going to be herd to part with.
End of an era I guess.
can you believe I traded 4 bri bri for a group of 5 widebands back then. Shows you what was coming in and what wasn`t.


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## Onagro (Jun 9, 2006)

frogfarm said:


> I had a group of wide bands and only one had that much yellow, some still have a wide horseshoe and not a full gold back hence the name wide bands not full gold backed :lol: sorry,that would have sounded better after a few beers at IAD then you could see my playful facial expression. :lol: These were strait from eu also.
> If I get a chance I`ll try and dig up some old pics, as that`s all I have of them now. Actually guyelcaminos were part of my original wideband breeding group and darren`s narrowbands came from someoone who got theirs from me so maybe there`s still hope.
> These last green auros are going to be herd to part with.
> End of an era I guess.
> can you believe I traded 4 bri bri for a group of 5 widebands back then. Shows you what was coming in and what wasn`t.


Yeah, it's kind of sad there aren't more people with Auros out there. The ones that do have either traded or sold them for thumbs and pumilio, or got out of the hobby  When I first entered the PDF world, my goal was to breed each morph of bicolor and aurotaenia (Also, Frog Farm's narrow bands were $30 and I was an unemployed teen). Now, it looks like that goal is going to be very difficult. Sorry to be all emotional, but it's kind sad this species is fading into obscurity.


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

Here are some pics of my "narrow-banded" group I got from Darren Meyer


























pretty [email protected] frogs!


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm not saying there are hybrid wide bandeds, I'm just saying there are hybrids floating around that have probably been called just about everything. It also doesn't help that the 3 forms have been called a variety of names... and the gold/yellow/orange forms have not always been differentiated between wide banded and narrow, and when originally imported one of the yellow forms was thought to be a variation in color of the green and interbed... the resulting offspring clued into the fact that this was not the case, producing offspring that looked like neither parent, showing that they were seperate populations.

Tor has wide banded that are only wide banded. Darren's narrows are also pure narrows - and yes, probably the golds seen at MWFF and they do morph out almost red and turn paler as they age... think of it as the color concentrated when young, and spreading out as they age. Can't go wrong with those lines as long as they are purely those lines, and with animals not introduced from other sources. I don't know how long it would take some of these animals to color up... I didn't have them in my care long enough. I'd think there would be more color on one year olds, judging by the color on the 6-8 month olds, but honestly it could easily take up to two years for some PDFs to really color up.


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## Onagro (Jun 9, 2006)

KeroKero said:


> I'm not saying there are hybrid wide bandeds, I'm just saying there are hybrids floating around that have probably been called just about everything. It also doesn't help that the 3 forms have been called a variety of names... and the gold/yellow/orange forms have not always been differentiated between wide banded and narrow, and when originally imported one of the yellow forms was thought to be a variation in color of the green and interbed... the resulting offspring clued into the fact that this was not the case, producing offspring that looked like neither parent, showing that they were seperate populations.
> 
> Tor has wide banded that are only wide banded. Darren's narrows are also pure narrows - and yes, probably the golds seen at MWFF and they do morph out almost red and turn paler as they age... think of it as the color concentrated when young, and spreading out as they age. Can't go wrong with those lines as long as they are purely those lines, and with animals not introduced from other sources. I don't know how long it would take some of these animals to color up... I didn't have them in my care long enough. I'd think there would be more color on one year olds, judging by the color on the 6-8 month olds, but honestly it could easily take up to two years for some PDFs to really color up.


Thanks, KeroKero. For a while there I was scratching my head. So these guys are gold aurotaenia... pretty interesting. I will keep taking pictures of them and document the color change as they age. 

Nice narrow bands, Rob! You'll have to keep me posted if they breed for you.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

I don't usually resurrect an old thread but I'm curious what you folks think of these - wide band?


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## NDokai (Nov 13, 2009)

Very cool! Especially the first one.


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## roberthvalera (Jun 9, 2006)

Those are so cool!!


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## Bob Fraser (Nov 21, 2007)

Ray
WIDE-BAND all the way !

Unless they're a cross as Cory (Kero-Kero) stated in thread. Although we haven't met I like you already! Passion for Frogs!


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

They are really nice. They look different than the widebands that first came in though, now that I look at them again. I posted on different thread of yours too. What kind of history do you have on them. I wrote an article for the ADG newsletter on aurotaenia back in the day. My baby wide bands always started off red-orange with narrow stripes that widened into more of a metallic gold covering on their backs. The coloration of yours looks more like the narrow bands but I've never seen any with the coverage that yours have. To me, it looks like new blood has made it into the country. Which would be totally awesome.

My old wide bands that came via Todd as adults from the initial import, which Chuck Powell (I think) brought in. I am pretty sure that these were Todd's adults. I produced 238 of these, 549 narrow bands and 385 green bands.

Good luck! They are great frogs.




























And a narrow band that had wide stripes and spots on the back for comparison (same lineage):


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Im really liking these little guys!


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## vugger#1 (Jul 20, 2009)

Resurrecting an old thread for a great little frog is a great idea. These guys need more people to take notice of them. 

I will be looking for some wide bands in the future Ray
Good luck with them.


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## Howard (Oct 30, 2009)

Thought I would just add a couple of snaps of my Green Aurotaenia to show folk the difference. There are 2 bloodlines in Europe with no difference detectable. I have individuals from both.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Aurotaenia said:


> They are really nice. They look different than the widebands that first came in though, now that I look at them again. I posted on different thread of yours too. What kind of history do you have on them.


thanks Chris. From what I was able to find out, the adult group is one cohort, about 5 years old, purchased from a fellow in Atlanta. That's about it. Apparently, offspring and adults are really variable.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

The guy that brought these out of Colombia did not differentiate between wide and narrow band gold/orange Auro's, only between those and the green's. He made no mention of 2 morphs when he was asking about how many I wanted to import, which i did twice, the 2nd time a few greens came as well, and those he did say were different. The first batch which consisted of about 40 animlas were mostly gold with a about 25% orange, some had more coloring down the middle which i assume morphed into wide band. Since the guy that sent them to me was the guy that brought them out of Colonmbia I would be hesitant to say they are 2 morphs, maybe info has come out since then saying they are 2 distinct morphs, but when they were imported they were not.


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