# New Frogs Hiding



## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

I recently purchased a pair of Pumilio blue jeans ( Strawberry ) .
The frogs spent 2 weeks in a quarantine container and they ate fruit flies and springtails very willingly . Now that I have put them in their new home they are in hiding . I am lucky to get a peek of them before they retreat .
Is their behavior kinda normal. These are my first Pumilio's .
The tank is at 70% humidity. automated misting. Jungle dawn LED. 72 deg.
Any input would be appreciated, I don't want to be missing out on a little detail that makes the frogs uncomfortable.


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## Berber King (Sep 11, 2014)

Mine do exactly the same. Only appearing at the front for springtails 


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

I don't ever see my Blue Jeans pums. I know the male is still alive because I hear him calling every time I mist and feed. I haven't seen either of them in months. I don't spend much time looking for them inside the tank either, so that may be partially my fault.


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

Sounds like they are fairly new, give them some time to settle in.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Oh the woes of shy frogs. 

Let them settle in and try not to do any crazy tank maintenance. A couple of my frogs took months to appear after I moved their tank.

To encourage frogs to come out I have been successful with letting the glass fog up completely a few times a day and then using fans to clear the glass. My frogs all come out when the glass is fogged up and they usually stay out after the fans clear up the glass. A fogger also helped my frogs come out more.

Once they are settled in and feel safe they should be out more.


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## toronaga (Jun 16, 2015)

I tried all kinds of things to make my blue jeans come out of the broms more often. The thing that seemed to work the best was taping the vents shut, they seem to like it soggy wet. Chris


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm going to again suggest that excessively high humidity isn't a good thing for the frogs. 

Animals placed into a new environment are going to show escape behaviors that are often misinterpreted. An example of this are frogs that "exploring" a new enclosure. In those cases the frogs are showing escape behaviors are they are searching for cues as to how to get back to their home territories, nor are they "happy". 

Hiding is another example of this sort of behavior as the capture move and release into the enclosures are highly disruptive to the frogs. The frogs may or may not get over this but a good part of this can also depend on how much the frogs are messed with during the acclimation period. 

A third thing people don't realize is that in the wild pumilio have two normal activity periods in the wild on a daily basis. The first is in the morning, and the second is in the late afternoon/early evening. 

Graves, Brent M. "Diel activity patterns of the sympatric poison dart frogs, Dendrobates auratus and D. pumilio, in Costa Rica." Journal of Herpetology (1999): 375-381.

Graves, Brent M., Kari A. Stanley, and Emily A. Gardner. "Correlates of vocal display in a Costa Rican population of strawberry poison-dart frogs, Dendrobates pumilio." Journal of herpetology 39.1 (2005): 101-107.

Artificially maintaining conditions to force behaviors for longer periods of time may not be beneficial to the frogs in the long run. 

I often see my bastimentos pumilio while my cauchero pumilio in smaller enclosures are much shyer than those in significantly larger enclosures (20 gallon vertical versus enclosure 2-3 times larger). 

Some comments 

Ed


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## toronaga (Jun 16, 2015)

Thank you Ed, I keep all my enclosures at around 75% humidity. I mistakenly believed that perhaps the blue jeans just liked it more humid as they were alot more active and out in the open on a daily basis with the humidity up. I certainly dont want to keep them in an unhealthy enviorenment! Chris


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

Thank you for the feedback . I tried to research their personality's before the purchase and the seller told me they were bold , but I'm ok with them being shy . Hopefully the next Pumilio's will be bolder . Please take Ed's advise about not taping the vents shut . I have a Terribilis tank that has a lot of water coming down a drip wall and I was a little stingy with the venting on the lid because the tank is covered in beautiful lush moss . The Terribilis kept going to the top and jumping at the lid and scuffing up their noses, since following Ed's advice regarding evaporative cooling in reference to the frogs I gave the tank a very generous vent . The frogs have stopped trying to escape and the mosses don't seem to be affected .


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

toronaga said:


> Thank you Ed, I keep all my enclosures at around 75% humidity. I mistakenly believed that perhaps the blue jeans just liked it more humid as they were alot more active and out in the open on a daily basis with the humidity up. I certainly dont want to keep them in an unhealthy enviorenment! Chris


There is a activity after a rain which indicates that there is some validity to that point of view. The problem is that this has to be weighed against the negatives that can result from restricting the ventilation too much. The sort of problems that insufficient ventilation can cause ranges from plants such as bromeliads and orchids rotting to CO2 and heat buildup. 

Its fine to shoot for a moderate humidity and some swings are fine (and would be more "natural" but don't shoot for the upper end just because. Once the frogs settle in you may get to see them more, but people forget that a major stressor such as shipping and installation into a new environment (which lacks all of the familiar cues) can change behavior patterns.

One of the underestimated cues for territory in pumilio is actually olfaction. There are studies that show the frogs are able to return to their home due to scent. 
see Forester, Don C., and Anthony Wisnieski. "The significance of airborne olfactory cues to the recognition of home area by the dart-poison frog Dendrobates pumilio." Journal of herpetology 25.4 (1991): 502-504.

As I mentioned above the may or may not become more visible over time it all depends on alot of variables most of which you have little or no control over. Probably the biggest thing you can do is feed them at approximately the same time, this functions to condition the frogs to associate your approach with food. This can help them overcome that shyness. 

some comments 

Ed


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

Ed said:


> There is a activity after a rain which indicates that there is some validity to that point of view. The problem is that this has to be weighed against the negatives that can result from restricting the ventilation too much. The sort of problems that insufficient ventilation can cause ranges from plants such as bromeliads and orchids rotting to CO2 and heat buildup.
> 
> Its fine to shoot for a moderate humidity and some swings are fine (and would be more "natural" but don't shoot for the upper end just because. Once the frogs settle in you may get to see them more, but people forget that a major stressor such as shipping and installation into a new environment (which lacks all of the familiar cues) can change behavior patterns.
> 
> ...


Fantastic post Ed. The info regarding olfaction and feeding regiment consistency is really interesting.


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## toronaga (Jun 16, 2015)

These frogs are an older WC group, Theyve been in the same viv for quite some time, I did have a 1/2" of vent open bottom and top, and a fan installed inside. The heat build up is very concerning to me given the climate that I live in and the fact that Ive moved them to the top shelf of my rack where they will get disturbed less often, and I moniter it pretty closely. I'm going to reopen the vents a little at a time and let them acclimate slowly to a more natural enviorenment. Chris


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## Frogsarefun (Nov 25, 2015)

Interesting thread.
Was wondering if over feeding newer frogs may cause them to stay hidden?


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

As another member posted that his frogs were visible in the morning . I have been getting a glimpse of the female in the morning right after the lights come on. She climbs the glass and kind of does a perimeter check but then goes back to the bottom and hides under a piece of wood. The most I see of the male is the tip of his nose and eyes . In reference to the olfactory subject . Is there an opinion on what plants or soils we could use to maybe simulate their home comfort zone . The reading I have done on them shows large tree's and bushes that obviously cannot be simulated.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Frogsarefun said:


> Interesting thread.
> Was wondering if over feeding newer frogs may cause them to stay hidden?



Normally the frogs will consume the maximal amount possible as they are programmed to have fat stores to get them through times of reduced food availability/quality. Frogs in the wild aren't likely to have manna rain from above on a regular basis. 

A large amount of food availability can reduce foraging time which may reduce their visibility. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Darrell S said:


> As another member posted that his frogs were visible in the morning . I have been getting a glimpse of the female in the morning right after the lights come on. She climbs the glass and kind of does a perimeter check but then goes back to the bottom and hides under a piece of wood. The most I see of the male is the tip of his nose and eyes . In reference to the olfactory subject . Is there an opinion on what plants or soils we could use to maybe simulate their home comfort zone . The reading I have done on them shows large tree's and bushes that obviously cannot be simulated.


There is a bromeliad that to which they have shown an olfactory response but my hard copy of the article is packed away right now. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

Thank you Ed. I found it. Now to try to understand it . Journal of Herpetology.
The Significance of Airborne Olfactory Cues to the Recognition of Home Area by the Dart-Poison Frog Dendrobates pumilio.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1564782?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


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