# Completed vivarium weight?



## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Hello,

I was wondering roughly how much a completed vivarium might weigh? I found some threads where people were discussing weight reduction but couldn't find any total weights anywhere.

Specifically, I was looking at getting an 34 gallon,18X18X24 glass tank, using hydroton/leca as the false bottom, cork panels for the background, ABG mix for the substrate. I believe those are most of the things that would add weight. I do not intend to have a water feature, but will add water to the false bottom as necessary in order to maintain humidity.

My purpose in asking is I need to find a stand/table to put this thing on. I found some sturdy-looking kitchen tables. I'm guessing they could hold 100lb easy but 200lb might need to look elsewhere.

Please let me know if I need to provide any more info on what I'm planning [all in my mind at this point] that might help with giving an estimate.


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## L8apex (May 2, 2014)

Way less than that, maybe 40-50 top end I'd say


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

I agree, MABYE 55 if you go really crazy on stuff. You should be fine

John


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

It is good that you consider this. I would guess as others it is well below 100lbs. I made a vivarium that has a stone back ground and stone decorations and I am pretty sure it doesn't weigh more than my amplifier which is under 100lbs. I don't think I have seen anyone else with a vivarium of the same size as heavy as mine. In addition those stands that you can buy for 18x18x24 exo terra tanks are totally rickety garbage made of particle board. If they can hold up most vivariums I wouldn't worry about just about any decent piece of furniture.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

They aren't going to be as heavy as full aquariums of the same size, but soil and other viv materials and the drainage layer/false bottom can hold a lot of water. 

You'll save several pounds by just doing an eggcrate false bottom instead of leca, (if you don't fill all that volume u saved by not adding leca with water.) ...A leca layer filled with water might actually be lighter then the same volume area filled with all water. Honestly not sure about that...

But i do real false bottoms on most tanks, especially if over 20 gallons. I did do a 30 with a leca bottom, and while I could probably lift it I'd rather not risk it moving it myself... You'll appreciate the weight you saved if you ever move it, (especially if you drain it as much as possible)

I think water weighs around 8lbs a gallon? So if you kinda keep track of the weight of the materials, know the empty aquarium weight and the roughly how much water is in the tank you can guesstimate the weight... Wet dirt is heavy.

If possible I pull frogs, drain water out of false bottom and let soil dry ...Atleast do as much of that is possible before moving larger vivs.

I like to do corner ponds that are filled up from the water in the drainage layer/false bottom. Like laying wood and/or rock to section off a corner and create shoreline which is foamed/siliconed into place, and then if you ever need to drain a viv you can just shop vac water from the pond. The trick is.making it so water passes through to fill the pond, but frogs and tads can't get through underneath and trapped. 

You can check out my flickr to see construction pics that show how I do it... 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

The one down side is if you don't use a mostly inorganic substrate and/or a filter with activated carbon you'll get tea stained water from all the tannins... but that just makes it more "authentic" 

Basically my advice is save weight when/where you can... you'll thank yourself later. I'll probably never again do a real rock background like I did in a 40B once


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Thanks everybody - that puts my mind at ease. I had been shopping online for aquarium stands but they all looked kind of rickety. I've got a dog and don't want her bumping into it and knocking the whole thing over. Plus they didn't have hardly any for a square shaped tank.

In case anyone's super curious, the tables I was looking at were these two:

Taller one: BJÖRKUDDEN Bar table - IKEA

Shorter one: NORDEN Table - IKEA

I had read that using particle board was to be avoided, since water would make it disintegrate. So I was looking for ones made from solid wood that were a little bigger than the 18X18 base of the vivarium. I'm thinking these are the best inexpensive solution I've found.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Ya the only downside is they don't have any storage under them to hold stuff. Go with the taller one so you don't have to bend over as much to look at your frogs. For comparison my stand is 42 inches tall in order to put the vivarium up to a good height.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Have out looked at "end tables", or maybe night stands?. My 30 cube has been on this thing for years, (Lil messy at time of pic, Oh and Echo the Fennec fox says "Hi")...


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Yeah - my original intention was to get a 12X12X18 vivarium and stick it on an end table in my living room, but then I wanted to get tinctorius frogs and people suggested 12X12 wasn't enough ground room for them. So I upgraded to the bigger vivarium, but couldn't find small tables that would fit 18X18 base, so ended up looking at small kitchen and bar tables.

What dimensions are the end table and the vivarium in the photos?

Off-topic question - is that a custom-made vivarium? It doesn't appear to have doors on the front like the exo-terra or zoo-med brands. The one I ordered is here: Magnetic No Hinge Vivarium | No gap vivarium


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

I didn't know you named your fennec fox Echo! Thats the perfect name for one

I think Dave's tank might be a Oceanic cube. They are an older tank and I don't think they are made any more (I could be wrong...). I got mine for free from a guy who was moving. Your best bet to find one is probably an aquarium shop or craigslist 

John


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

FroggyKnight said:


> I didn't know you named your fennec fox Echo! Thats the perfect name for one
> 
> I think Dave's tank might be a Oceanic cube. They are an older tank and I don't think they are made any more (I could be wrong...). I got mine for free from a guy who was moving. Your best bet to find one is probably an aquarium shop or craigslist
> 
> John


Thanks! ...and yep that is an Oceanic 30 or whatever, looks to be about the same dimensions as the OP's planned vivs. I don't know where my tape measure is but it is 18-19 inches wide on top and from front to back i think, and 20-24 inches tall. I was one of the lucky people that got petco to honor the $1 gallon price on oceanic cube once 

The table I think is 24x24ish square and about 18 inches high... No idea where I got it. Hand me down from the folks 

Btw good call on more floor space for tincs.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Whoohoo!! I was right 

Yeah, it has a bit larger footprint than a 18x18x24 and is a bit shorter as well. The only down side I've found is that it is heavier than the average tank, but its not too bad and most stands will work fine with it. 

John


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ya older oceanics seem a bit beefier then the topfin and other cheaper black plastic rommed.aquariums. I have an oceanic 75, and it was dang heavy empty. its got some thick glass and even with both my dad and I trying to move it onto an industrial metal.rack at about 4 feet high we almost lost it.

Got that 75 for like $50, maybe $75... another stroke of luck 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

I think that table and tank are about the same dimensions as the ones I was looking at. I don't think I'll be able to find an oceanic around here though. There don't appear to be much froggers in Nebraska, and not much for terrariums of any brand on craigslist around here. I think I'm just going to buy a new tank from tropical ecos (those are supposedly a little heavier glass and don't have the black plastic hinges like exoterra), and table from IKEA (can't seem to find any sturdy tables in the same price range).

I think it's going to take me like 4 months or so to assemble everything and make sure I can keep the plants alive before I order any frogs. I'll take some pictures and post them on here when I'm done.

Thanks for the advice and feedback everybody, this website is a great resource.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Black Jungle sells a product of expanded glass that is a much, much lighter product as a substitute for the Leca or Hydroton......and I use a turkey baster to remove the extra water from the "pond" area...


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

I carried mine hydroballs and all up two flights of stairs with relative ease, just add water after its in place and your fine, I would guesstimate in the 35-40 lb. range dry and 40-50 with water, I like many others fine my own types of stands, Im using a bakers rack with a piece of plywood on top for one lol and a bookshelf for another


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

I haven't done all the research on the different false bottom materials yet. I'm guessing there's some threads on here. 

My ideal would be something that's user-friendly, looks nice, lightweight, and long lasting. I think I'd shy away from the egg crate method since it looks a little trickier to pull off, and I don't have an intention to build a water feature.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Judy S said:


> Black Jungle sells a product of expanded glass that is a much, much lighter product as a substitute for the Leca or Hydroton......and I use a turkey baster to remove the extra water from the "pond" area...


Ya I've wanted to try that stuff. Ne herp and I think Josh's frogs (DB sponsors), both sell it or something similar, and exo-terra biodrain substrate too. 


False Bottom | Naturalistic Vivarium Substrates | Josh's Frogs


New England Herpetoculture LLC - Vivarium Substrates


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Looking at those "expanded glass" options, both of them look like they might be porous? It says they're half as heavy, but I wonder if those would fill with water and become heavier?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

thane said:


> Looking at those "expanded glass" options, both of them look like they might be porous? It says they're half as heavy, but I wonder if those would fill with water and become heavier?


Ya some... I think overall the same volume area filled with just water would be lighter then that area filled within water and these substrates...but not sure. I assume if they don't float then when water logged they are heavier by volume, or at the very least you won't save much weight.

Where you could potentially save significant weight would be doing a shallower drainage layer and/or soil layer... in which case you could use those substrates and some of the finer inorganic planted aquarium substrates, with maybe some long fiber sphagnum moss thrown in and/or small amount of other organic components.

Basically a soil mix that favors inorganic materials over organic may require less volume of soil, and less depth of your drainage layer, and probably degrade much slower over time. They also tend to drain faster too. so 2-3 inches of inorganic or hybrid soil won't likely soak up as much water and hold it as long as most organic soils. Other benefit to inorganic is lack of tannins so less chance of tea stained water... If doing a pond that might matter aesthetically to some people, but otherwise isn't a big deal.

Real rock and driftwood (especially if wood is waterlogged), add weight so consider that if you want to save weight in the hardscape.

Wet dirt is heavy... organic based wet dirt is usually heavier I think. Basically the less wet dirt and shallower drainage layer you can get away with, the more weight you save, but less margin for error if you over mist or a water feature leaks/splashes or other wise starts to lead to flooding.

I'd focus more on finding a decen't stand then cutting the vivs weight. There is only so much weight you can save, and if your stand is flimsy enough that weight actually matters, probably setting yourself up for a potential disaster some day


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

That's a lot of good info. My main purpose in starting this thread was to make sure I got a sturdy enough table. I went ahead about bought the one from IKEA. Pretty sure I could put 100lb on that thing no problem, so I don't have to worry too much about weight. I was intending to do a thicker layer of substrate and false bottom so I could add/remove water to adjust the humidity, like you said. 

I'm curious about these inorganic soils. My plan was just to use the ABG mix with sphagnum moss on top then groundcover of moss and leaf litter. Would there be any downside to using more inorganic materials, specifically if I was looking to seed the substrate with springtails (and possibly isopods)? I thought they live off decaying plant matter, so wouldn't it be better to have more organic material?

My idea was to put them in 2-4 weeks before adding the frogs to try and establish a self-sustaining population of microfauna to help clean the tank clean and for a backup food source.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Inorganic substrates are usually used with a heavy layer of leaf litter, which acts as a food source for micro fauna and a hiding place for the frogs. The isopods and springtails will actually thrive on the high surface area of the substrate. 

The biggest downside is that some plants might not grow as well without fertilization and adding fertilizer in sufficient quantities might not be an option in a frog tank. I've seen some people using clay substrate use pockets of ABG mix around their plants in order to get better growth and this seems to be a good method to get around the problem.

John


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I think that hits the nail on the head pretty well. A lot of springtail cultures are just charcoal and a lil water, so I think most microfauna will do fine, especially with leaf litter. Driftwood adds weight, but especially when partially buried serves the microfauna as hiding spot, breeding spot, and source of food, or at least as a growing area for mold and whatever else they eat.

There is some trade off with inorganic but it's the direction I've started moving in. Longer life, less compaction, less root rot, possibility of clear or at least not dark tea stained water, and ultimately possible weight savings, make it worth it IMO. I havent gotten to do a completely new build in awhile, but in some remodel work and grow out containers ive been using a lil leca, a lot of planted aquarium substrate and long fiber sphag as the 1 organic component and ot seems to be working well. 

I think between decaying leaf litter, leaves falling off plants, microfauna, fungus gnats and fruit flies that die in the vivs before getting eatin, that will probably be enough fertilization most of the time. I think there are some threads on frog safe fertilizers too, that might be worth looking up. Also if you prune or pull out plants, you can let em dry out and shove them in the back of viv for compost, to return at least some of the nutrients they used up in the vivs when alive.

Pockets or pots of more appropriate soil for certain plants is a good idea as he mentioned. Different plants often have different needs and you can get away with some plants even that people might not consider vivs plants by making special places to plant them, or planting them on high points of substrate where its a bit drier etc..etc... Plant placement and creating special conditions for special plants is an art/new in itself . ...But as you gain experience and do research you pick up some tricks.

P.S. I looked at the IKEA tables and I think they'll work, as long as no one crashes into them. I'd personally prefer something with a solid base instead of legs, bit I think you'll be fine.


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