# Fruit Fly culture invaded by ants...



## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

My newest producing fruit fly culture was taken over by ants that chewed through the material circles on the culture lid. I had to trash that culture last night when I found it, and my older culture just gave me it's last 20 flys. 
I just placed an order through Josh's frogs for more fly's and springtails, but don't have any producing cultures at the time.
I have one culture I started a week ago, but it only has @30 flys in it. Would it be best to feed out the few flys I have, or should the frogs be ok until I get the new culture? The frogs are almost 6 months of age


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Assuming the frogs are well fed, they should be fine.

I'll be in Hamburg vending this Saturday for Josh's Frogs, and will have plenty of springtail and FF cultures available.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

you also need to address the issue as to why you got ants in teh culture in the first place, so you wanna clear that up before getting mroe cultures going and having the same thing happen again.


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

@zBrinks- Ty!

Julio- the ants chewed through the vents in the lid to get to the medium. I had the cultures stored underneath the viv in an open backed cabinet. The culture I have left is now stored on top of the tank. I have also put down ant traps.


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Zbrinks- When are you going to be there? I just re-read the shipping info on Josh'sFrogs website, and it states that the fly's might not have shipped today (I'm guessing not since I didn't get an email stating it had shipped).
In general I've been dumping about 30 flys in daily for them, but I'm nervous about waiting til the fly's get here if they don't ship til Monday.
We may have to squeeze the hour drive in to see you!


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

I have gone on vacation for many days and did not feed my frogs. If they are healthy and plump, they can easily go without flies. I also culture springtails which I got my first batch from Josh's Frogs. I now have over 5 containers within a year and they are producing when my flies are not. Hope this helps and also think about having other insects on board.


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks Colleen53.
I did have a springtail culture that I added to the tank months ago, but the frogs ate all of them. I was hoping since they were so small at the time it wouldn't be an issue! I was wrong! 
When I ordered the FF's yesterday I did order another culture of springs, so I'm just waiting for everything to show up. My concern was that if the stuff isn't shipped til Monday I won't have it til Wed, which would be 6 days with out food. I don't know if that's too long or not.
We're going away for the 18th-21st and I thought they'd be ok with out FF's during that time, but 6 days just seems too long!


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

I have left them without food as long as 6 days when I go on vacation, but i know that I have fatten them up before I go. When you do get your springtail culture, divide it into another container and don't use one of them for awhile. Then make another culture after that. I feed the cultures every week with fish flakes, banana, even blood worm flakes ( I have a 60 gallon fish tank ). The point here is to have extra springtails on board so that when you do run out of flies, you have another source of food AND they are easy to produce. 
I take it that there are no pet stores around you that sells flies? Our Petco sells them. You may want to check them if you have one.


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Petsmart sells TINY vials, that never have more than a few feedable flys ready in it for $6. I haven't found any stores around us that have larger cultures.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

I believe those are the Melanogastor fruit flies. We have them in a small jar here. Just a thought as they have a good return policy. Buy one and use a bit and if there are not many, return it and tell them the culture went bad. I am starting to use more of the Melas as they are so much easier to culture. I do culture Heidi, but they take a bit longer, but bigger. Hope this helps for you. Any froggers in your area? May want to know for future references and meetings.


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah, I've been culturing the melongaster flies from Josh's frogs. When I got the frogs in January the gentleman I bought them from sold me a culture, and then I ordered a couple more with media mix from Josh's frogs in Feb.
I've been doing good always having flys going crazy, until the ants got in this past culture. I'm trying not to have TOO Many cultures going, as I only have 4 frogs and hate to waste so much. 
I don't know of any froggers really near me, but the guy I got the frogs from, and he's an hour away also.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Petco here carries acceptable sized ff cultures, perhaps they do in your area also...if u have one in your area check there, expensive but will get you by until you can get more. 

The ones in small Blue viles are usually hydei...larger then melenos...slower producing though. If you can find a couple that are producing well and the flies arent all dead (a problem with many petco/petsmart cultures as they sit on shelf for to long) then that can buy you time. Having a culture or 2 of hydei going is nice, adds a little variety and larger frogs really like them usually.

If you can go to the show in hamburg pa and find zbrinks or another vendor thats a good option.

Its a good idea to make up a couple cultures, then a few days later make a few more, then maybe a few days later make another couple....Space em out, this way you have a steady stream of cultures. There is usually atleast 1 with an abundance of flies at any given time. You always want a little extra in case of problems like the ants, or cultures just failing randomly or never producing at all really as sometimes happens.

You should make a master springtail culture that you keep going always....then use that to make smaller feeder cultures, and feed out or seed new tanks from them. Same for isopod cultures.

One way to make your springtails or isopods last longer in tank is have plenty of rocks and/or driftwood partially buried in your substrate....this provides them with plenty of hiding/breeding places which helps stop the frogs from over grazing on them, and usually they will never wipe them out...and you always have a small steady stream of feeders breeding in tank. I partially bury pieces of driftwood throughout my tanks instead of just setting it on top of the substrate...usually the pieces are loaded with springtails.

If your frogs are completely wiping out the springtails you might also consider keeping less frogs per tank. I have a 75 and its never had more then 6 frogs in it at any given time and in that tank I could probably have gone weeks or a month or more if needed without feeding and not see the frogs loose much if any weight. I dont reccomend that ofcourse, but in larger tanks and/or tanks with less frogs you have more margin for error because its less likely they will wipe out the food living and breeding in the tank.

Alot of people here are in favor of leaf litter in tanks, and having it means you'll usually have a higher density of feeder insects breeding in tank...I like having a moss carpet for the look, so what I do is jam fallen leaves from plants, pulled plants i let dry out, or leaves from outside sources in the back of the tank behind the plants and around their bases...That way I get the benefit of having leaf litter while still getting to keep my pretty moss carpet.

Plus putting dried cuttings from pruning plants in tank, or fallen leaves, or leaves from outside sources...means less nutrients are leaving your tank. when you prune a plant, or pull dead leaves out...you are throwing away resources. Putting the dried remains back in saves some of that.

It takes a little time to get the knack of keeping up with cultures and being able to make sure you always have flies without having a TON of extra.

Always good to have a plan b, c, or d too... Petsmart and petcos now usually have small tiny meal worms in stock, which i've gotten some frogs to take, calci worms are now common to find on the shelf and can be an option for larger frogs...and chances are atleast 1 pet store in your area has pin head crickets regularly...another option in times of emergency.


And as a last resort you can purchase live bug catchers....like zappers but instead they trap the insects, and you can use some of the smaller ones they catch as food. its a pain, trying to seperate out larger ones, and there is the chance u might introduce some kinda pest in the tank but could save you in an emergency.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Very good post, Dave!


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

We have had an infestation of (large black Carpenter??) ants in a previous location. I then put my flies in a couple of plastic boxes filled part way up with water.. (just don't put too much water in to tip the culture) and not too close to the edge as the ants can drop down onto the lid.. problem solved.. we found a few ants that drowned. Word got out that they were no longer an easy food source and the ants stopped coming. We also moved to a different location and the house is ant-proof.. just not spider proof... YIKES!!


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks for the great advice everyone!
I did go to the Hamburg show and picked up a culture of springtails, ffs and the charcoal for the springtails.
I found some bean beetles to, so I'm working on culturing them as well.
Frogs seem happy for now.

@Dendro Dave- wouldn't it waste an awful lot for me to make so many cultures when I only have 4 frogs? They are all in a very well planted 55 gallon viv. I just hate to waste so much of the media and have so many flies end up dying in the cup because they don't all need fed out.
Hopefully this never happens again since I now have 3 different feeder insects! I will have to check Petco again when we're down that way!

Thanks everyone! My first reptile show was very interesting! My 3 kiddos loved it, and want to go back again as well!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

dreamcatcer98 said:


> Thanks for the great advice everyone!
> I did go to the Hamburg show and picked up a culture of springtails, ffs and the charcoal for the springtails.
> I found some bean beetles to, so I'm working on culturing them as well.
> Frogs seem happy for now.
> ...


Possibly. Assuming 2-4 cultures would be enough...it would be good if you spaced out each culture or every 2 cultures a few days to a week. That way they aren't all failing at about the same time. Thats basically all I was saying...I used to have over 40 darts and several other herps but now I only have one frog and feed my L. williamsi geckos mostly meal worms so I've been doing a minimum of culturing the last 6mo-year. I dont really remember how many cultures I needed and how much i spaced them back in those days...Im getting old LOL

Dave


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

What dart frog do you have left? Out of 40 at one time to 1 !! You must have much advice to this hobby!!!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Colleen53 said:


> What dart frog do you have left? Out of 40 at one time to 1 !! You must have much advice to this hobby!!!


I just have 1 black bassleri left, after I gave it up for dead a couple months ago. Didnt see the frog or hear any calling from the dang thing for 6months. Then the other day I was messing with the tank and all a sudden he pops out...scrawny though since I'd given up feeding a frog i assumed was dead. So I'm nursing him back to health now. Hopefully that will go well.

Down to 1 frog because of the Huge Ice storm Oklahoma had about 2 years ago. I was without power for 7 days straight with temps below 30, and so was everyone else I knew ;( 

I lost the majority of my collection due to that. I sold most of the ones I saved (a group of darklands+froglets) to buy my Fennec Fox. The couple of froglets I saved for myself died. 1 just tanked, and the rest got taken out by ants that invaded my viv while I was away for a weekend. So that left just the bassleri ;( 


My luck is awsome


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Wow!! My husband went to ORU many years ago and does remember how cold it does get there. Some pretty funny stories, but yours has to hurt. That is the risk we take with having these beautiful little guys. Hope the little frog makes it. He sounds like a fighter!!!


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