# Single parent



## clownphisher (May 10, 2010)

My question is if the male dies while tads are in broms or cups will the female continue to feed them or does she need the male to call her.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

It would probably help if you included the species you are inquiring about, that way people can give personal experience.

Some females will. For instance, if a female imitator knows where the tadpoles are, she may continue to feed them for a while.

However, I think your best bet is to likely feed them yourself. If they are in a cup, you can just leave them in the viv or you can pull them out and raise them more hands-on. There are lots of threads about the topic, so you can do a quick search for more info.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

If it's an obligate egg feeder, you have no choice but to leave the tads in and yes, I believe in that case the female would still feed without the male.
If it's a Ranitomeya, like R. imitator, I'm not sure but if it looks like she stops, you have the option to pull the tads and raise them artificially.
If it's any other frog (Dendrobates, Phyllobates, Epipdobates, etc.) the females do not feed eggs to tadpoles so losing the male would have no effect.
Bryan


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> If it's an obligate egg feeder, you have no choice but to leave the tads in and yes, I believe in that case the female would still feed without the male.


Particularly since with obligates, the females feed them in the wild without a male "encouraging" them to lay eggs for the tadpoles. The claim with obligates that the male has a role in egg feeding the tadpoles is another myth that has endured in the hobby. 

Ed


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## clownphisher (May 10, 2010)

Thanks for the input. I was asking about my vanzolini's. I think there are tads in the viv, but I'm not sure where they are.


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

I don't believe the outcome will be any different without the male, but, I am sorry that you lost the male. 

Your best success rate would normally be removing the eggs and caring for them yourself. If there are tads in there, I would be tempted to look a little for them but not at the risk of endangering them. 

Brad


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendrobati said:


> Your best success rate would normally be removing the eggs and caring for them yourself. If there are tads in there, I would be tempted to look a little for them but not at the risk of endangering them.
> 
> Brad


Actually in a properly set up tank, the best success rate can often be had by allowing the frogs to go about thier normal behaviors..... Care has to be taken when making blanket statements like that one above since artificial rearing can also be a selective pressure.... 

Some comments

Ed


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## claymore (Feb 24, 2010)

Ed said:


> Actually in a properly set up tank, the best success rate can often be had by allowing the frogs to go about thier normal behaviors..... Care has to be taken when making blanket statements like that one above since artificial rearing can also be a selective pressure....
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


When you say "artificial rearing can also be a selective pressure" are you referring to pressure on the adult pair of Frogs via excessive breeding?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

claymore said:


> When you say "artificial rearing can also be a selective pressure" are you referring to pressure on the adult pair of Frogs via excessive breeding?


There are a couple of different scenarios.. for example, by pulling all of the eggs you are putting a selective pressure on the frogs that emphasizes egg production over parental behaviors. This is similar to the selective pressures that were placed on a number of breeds of chickens to lay eggs virtually year round and to not go broody. This means that the selection pressure is reallocating energy from parental behaviors to egg production. 

Another example is what is seen in hatchery bred and reared salmon is that the number of eggs is emphasized over the size of the eggs since artificial hatching of the eggs allows smaller eggs to hatch successfully a trait that is maladaptive to the wild salmon (and negatively impacts wild populations of salmon that have hatchery salmon stocked into the same stream)... 

Keep in mind that artificial rearing of the eggs also means that frogs that are either better adapted to captivity than other frogs and/or one's that are for some husbandry reason are producing a large number of offspring are also going to disproportionally be represented in subsequent generations which is also a form of artificial selection (since productivity is emphasized in this hobby and there is status in being able to produce a lot of frogs) as it reduces genetic diversity in the captive population. 

These are only a couple of examples of potentially multiple scenarios and I should note that there can be multiple atificial selective pressures on the frogs at the same time (for example, all three of the above could be in play on the same frog)... 

Some comments

Ed


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## claymore (Feb 24, 2010)

Very interesting Ed...

I have Imitators and Vanzolini, I usually leave the Tads in the film canisters for several weeks. Sometimes until they almost pop out their front legs.

I noticed during my first year of breeding my Green Imitators, that the tads I left in the enclosure longer had less problems (SLS, STS, etc..) than the ones I pulled out right away. Are the Mothers unfertilized eggs more nutritious than the alliterative diet that we feed them?

What do you think is the best time to pull tads? Early on aka just deposited or later on when they have at least their back legs?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

claymore said:


> I noticed during my first year of breeding my Green Imitators, that the tads I left in the enclosure longer had less problems (SLS, STS, etc..) than the ones I pulled out right away. Are the Mothers unfertilized eggs more nutritious than the alliterative diet that we feed them?


It depends on the diet being fed to the tadpoles.. If the adults have been properly supplemented then it may contain the proper supplements for the tadpoles... 



claymore said:


> What do you think is the best time to pull tads? Early on aka just deposited or later on when they have at least their back legs?


As long as we aren't dealing with obligates then what ever works provided people are aware that theoretically there are potential cosnequences. 

Ed


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## clownphisher (May 10, 2010)

Apparently my worry was for nothing. A couple of days ago I heard calling and yesterday I found this on the front glass.









I guess he was just laying low for a few months.


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