# First try at keeping poison dart frogs



## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

First let me introduce myself. My name is Phillip, and i've been looking over this forum along with a few others. I've decided to take the big leap and join this board. (Everyone here seems pretty nice and supportive) So after spending about 2 1/2 weeks looking at how tos, DIYs, construction journals, and everything else, here's what i'm going to do. I'm going to build 3 side-by-side 10 galoon horizontal tanks. I plan on starting a rack, and keeping most of my tanks on there.

I plan on doing great stuff and peat moss for the background, but for my first question. I've been watching over this awful argument about GE silicone I and II, but I can't decide on what to use. I've heard I should use GE l, but it doesn't come in black from what I have researched. i'm really stumped 

As for false bottoms, I plan on using LECA balls because I attempted my skills at an eggcrate false bottom and it seems too time consuming. 

As for substrate, I think I will use ABG mix, but I have kept whites tree frogs over a mix I invented, but i'll give ABG a go. 

Any tips or advice would be awesome, and thanks guys! I look forward to hear from you.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Welcome!

I found eggcrate to be a pain the first couple times I used it, and opted for LECA. Now that I've tried eggcrate a few more times, I really like it. Nice and lightweight and you can be more creative. 

ABG is good substrate. You can make your own substrate too. I use orchid bark; crunched up natural charcoal; crunched up sphagnum moss; a little coco fiber; sometimes a little tree fiber but I always get splinters. Sometimes I crunch up leaves into it and I've also mixed in a bit of LECA. 

What is in the substrate you make for your tree frogs?

I'm perplexed by the GEI and GEII debate too. You can use any 100% silicone.


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

frogface said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I found eggcrate to be a pain the first couple times I used it, and opted for LECA. Now that I've tried eggcrate a few more times, I really like it. Nice and lightweight and you can be more creative.
> 
> ...


I use a 2:1 ratio of orchid bark and tree fern fiber (2 parts orchid bark and 1 part tree fern fiber) The plants seem to like it, but i'm not sure what they would like more. And thanks for the info on the silicone, I might try looking for GE l but i've never seen in in my Local hardware store.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Your substrate just needs to be well draining. You want the tank moist but not soggy. Pumilo did a nice write up (one of many) about substrates. I'll see if I can find it. 

There some benefit to the charcoal but I can't remember what it is. Microfauna? Drainage? I dunno. Be right back with a link.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok here it is. This is actually from Frogboy, Pumilo's very cool kid. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63915-truth-about-abg-mix.html


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

frogface said:


> Ok here it is. This is actually from Frogboy, Pumilo's very cool kid.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63915-truth-about-abg-mix.html


Thanks, I was trying to look for this because I skimmed through it when I was watching over this board  .


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

Whoa, just a small update. I was doing a final cleaning on the tanks to get ready for GS, and one of the tanks I used to house a dumpy, and I used silicone to adhere things when I first made the tank. I tried scraping the most silicone of as I can, but since I can't get the silicone I put on off the silicone the tank came with, i'm smelling a mildew smell, which concerns me greatly. I tried filling the whole tank up in bleach (30$ worth of it too) and let it soak for a few hours. After dumping the bleach out, the mildew smell is overwhelming the bleach smell, and when I sniff it, I feel like i'm getting dizzy and am gonna throw up! I'm not kidding either... If anyone has had this, info would be great. I've built a handful of dumpy tanks and never had this smell. If I can't get rid of it this will just be a boring 2-10g tank build lol. Thanks.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Dude $30 worth is like 10 gallons of bleach...that should be enough to kill anything in the tank...put the tank in a dry spot in direct sunlight for a few days and see if that helps. Good luck.


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

fieldnstream said:


> Dude $30 worth is like 10 gallons of bleach...that should be enough to kill anything in the tank...put the tank in a dry spot in direct sunlight for a few days and see if that helps. Good luck.


Thanks for the quick reply! I know, exactly, it's a 10 gallon tank, so I thought 10 gallons of bleach should work. I'll have to try putting it in the sun, thanks for the tip! I'm getting my great stuff/silicone on Sunday so I should have plenty of time.


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

Here's the story. I left it out in the sun for about 6 hours, and it still stinks whenever the tiniest drop of water touches the silicone, and the silicone is turning yellow/green! I think now i'll only do 2 tanks and not 3  oh well. But this has givin me more time to think, and I want to use great stuff on the back wall and for the ground, because i'm not a big fan of the rough transitions. I'll try to show you guys what I mean in pics soon. When I start this i'll make a new thread in the construction forum.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Why not take a razor blade, scrape out the silicone, make sure the whole tank is transparent, then bleach the tank, then let it dry, and then reapply silicone?

I'm curious what you're planning on keeping in 10 gallon horizontal tanks.... This isn't typically the size that most people around the board recommend for the larger beginner frogs (and most of the smaller more advance frogs are recommended as 10 gallon verts or bigger).


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

sounds like you screwed up the silicone. id get a new tank now. there $10 at walmart. i dont do that extensive of cleaning just rinse it out with just water. you can add a lil bit of white vinagar if you want. all that bleach is prolly absorbed into the silicone and can burn the frogs.


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Why not take a razor blade, scrape out the silicone, make sure the whole tank is transparent, then bleach the tank, then let it dry, and then reapply silicone?
> 
> I'm curious what you're planning on keeping in 10 gallon horizontal tanks.... This isn't typically the size that most people around the board recommend for the larger beginner frogs (and most of the smaller more advance frogs are recommended as 10 gallon verts or bigger).


I plan on keeping tincs in 1 and luecs in the other. I started to tryand get all the silicone off and it isn't going well. I got most of it off and it still stinks. I've read about people not recommending a 10g for beginner darts, but i've see n many people keep luecs in them, but not so much as tincs. I'm trying to save a lot of space, i'm going to do a thin GS layer and 2 small buttress tree roots on each side to smooth the transition, but not take up too much space.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

You may want to do a little more then 6 hours of sunlight. If not, it shouldn't be too hard to get all the silicone out...you can get a tool to remove it from HD for like 3 bucks. If the smell is just coming from the silicone then it should be worth it to rip it all out. Then again it's just a 10g so you can replace it easily and inexpensively. You could still rip out all the silicone and save the glass for doing tops, vert conversions, etc...Good Luck.


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## dynekevin (May 24, 2011)

Sorry if i missed it but what type of silicone did you use? I tried the GE I before and the smell never went away and i had to toss the tank.

Now i use the GE II window clear silicone. The smell is gone within hours if not less.

-Kevin


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

I used GE II black because when I originally built the tank I wanted to hide the GS.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Dew said:


> I plan on keeping tincs in 1 and luecs in the other. I started to tryand get all the silicone off and it isn't going well. I got most of it off and it still stinks. I've read about people not recommending a 10g for beginner darts, but i've see n many people keep luecs in them, but not so much as tincs. I'm trying to save a lot of space, i'm going to do a thin GS layer and 2 small buttress tree roots on each side to smooth the transition, but not take up too much space.


That's pretty peculiar to me. If anything I'd say leucs would prefer to have more space than tincs. Leucs are _everywhere_. I'm not saying tincs don't climb, but leucs definitely utilize the space more than tincs do.

I think you'll find that many of the people who keep their large Dendrobates frogs in 10 gallons have years of experience with those species and have developed systems of keeping frogs in smaller tanks.... I don't know many (even of those who keep their own frogs in 10 gallons) that would recommend beginners doing it.... Something to think about. I understand the desire to conserve space (the more space you conserve the more frogs you can keep, I get it), but IMO the frogs health and happiness outweighs my own desire for more frogs.


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

SmackoftheGods said:


> That's pretty peculiar to me. If anything I'd say leucs would prefer to have more space than tincs. Leucs are _everywhere_. I'm not saying tincs don't climb, but leucs definitely utilize the space more than tincs do.
> 
> I think you'll find that many of the people who keep their large Dendrobates frogs in 10 gallons have years of experience with those species and have developed systems of keeping frogs in smaller tanks.... I don't know many (even of those who keep their own frogs in 10 gallons) that would recommend beginners doing it.... Something to think about. I understand the desire to conserve space (the more space you conserve the more frogs you can keep, I get it), but IMO the frogs health and happiness outweighs my own desire for more frogs.


Ok. Well, do you think that maybe just 1 luec would work? Or would tincs be better. Since I have all the roots going up, it would make it easier to climb. I know what you mean about larger dendrobates in a 10 gallon, i've heard many people argue about it. I just want to have something nice to look at and keep my first darts happy.


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

I've moved this thread to here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/71612-forest-floor-build.html


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

fieldnstream said:


> Then again it's just a 10g so you can replace it easily and inexpensively. You could still rip out all the silicone and save the glass for doing tops, vert conversions, etc...Good Luck.


+1...........


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Dew said:


> Ok. Well, do you think that maybe just 1 luec would work? Or would tincs be better. Since I have all the roots going up, it would make it easier to climb. I know what you mean about larger dendrobates in a 10 gallon, i've heard many people argue about it. I just want to have something nice to look at and keep my first darts happy.


One animal would be better. You might consider that, if you want your animal to be happy, and you see a lot of disagreement on a subject, you might want to go with the safer side of the argument "just in case."

If you're really looking for something that looks nice, I'd got for larger tanks. The larger the tank you have the more room you have to work with. The larger, more elaborate wood you can put in, the more GS ledges you can carve, etc. You really limit yourself with smaller tanks. Plus, (often times) the smaller the tank, the more room you use for hardscaping, the more livable room you lose.


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## Dew (Aug 3, 2011)

SmackoftheGods said:


> One animal would be better. You might consider that, if you want your animal to be happy, and you see a lot of disagreement on a subject, you might want to go with the safer side of the argument "just in case."
> 
> If you're really looking for something that looks nice, I'd got for larger tanks. The larger the tank you have the more room you have to work with. The larger, more elaborate wood you can put in, the more GS ledges you can carve, etc. You really limit yourself with smaller tanks. Plus, (often times) the smaller the tank, the more room you use for hardscaping, the more livable room you lose.


I know, I love keeping larger tanks, but only if I had the room. I have 3 120 gallon whites tree frog setups that are taking over (I might be a little off on size, I build them myself) and each holds 2 trios of dumpys.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Dew said:


> I know, I love keeping larger tanks, but only if I had the room. I have 3 120 gallon whites tree frog setups that are taking over (I might be a little off on size, I build them myself) and each holds 2 trios of dumpys.


I don't work with tree frogs a lot, but mu understanding is that dumpys are a communal frog. Seems you'd be better off splitting your 2 trios into three pairs, using the tens for your dumpys, and having a 120 for some darts.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

I found this thread, it may help..or not

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lounge/71440-account-got-hacked-5.html#post628900


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I don't work with tree frogs a lot, but mu understanding is that dumpys are a communal frog. Seems you'd be better off splitting your 2 trios into three pairs, using the tens for your dumpys, and having a 120 for some darts.


I started with a 125, and if I could do it over, I would probably start smaller and then move up... better to get the feel for landscaping/planting on a smaller tank IMO. That way, when you make the big showpiece tank, it doesn't look thrown together like mine originally did. 

I'd probably pick up a 20G for darts, save the 120 for a few months until you've seen a whole bunch of vivs and built at least one yourself, and then make it a project. Just my .02


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