# Sudden death



## davor123si (Dec 28, 2007)

Hello,

today one of my Oophaga pumilio Cristobal died. The female was ok yesterday, she was acting normally, eating etc. Today I noticed, that she was jumping around the terrarium as though something was stuck to her feet. I saw that she has not shed completely. There was some old skin still left on one of her hind legs. Due to funny behaviour I transfered her to a separate container, which was furnished with a wet paper cloth and a few oak leaves. 

The frog died two hours later. Her hind legs were stretched out, mouth open... She was in an upright position as if though she tried to climb out of the container.

I've found no leisons or cuts on her skin. She was not emaciated, her skin was shinny and normal colour, eyes were shinny as well.

The only thing I noticed that was out of the ordinary, were a few white spots (like slime), that apeared on the frog when she died.

Does anyone have any idea what could be the cause of this sudden death?

best regards,
Davor Martincic
Slovenia


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

have you ruled out chytrid? some of those symptoms sound familiar, although i don't know how prevelent it is in your corner of the world.


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## davor123si (Dec 28, 2007)

I think that if it was chytrid, the male would have died as well, as they were both housed in the same breeding terrarium (40x25x25cm). The male still is actually and is doing just fine.

Is it possible that the frog died because of stress?


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

if the frog looked pretty bloated after death it may have been toxins i had a hair spray incident a few months ago that cost a few frogs there life. and it wasn't even sprayed in the same room.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

davor123si said:


> I think that if it was chytrid, the male would have died as well, as they were both housed in the same breeding terrarium (40x25x25cm). The male still is actually and is doing just fine.
> 
> Is it possible that the frog died because of stress?


Immunosuppression can be the difference in how rapidly one shows symptoms versus another frog in the same enclosure.. stress can cause this (and is one of the main ways that stress can kill an animal).. Some frogs can remain asymptomatic (for chytrid) for lengthy periods of time espcially if they can either bask or raise thier temperature consistantly above 75 F. 

Chytrid has been confirmed in pumilio in the wild (see http://biologia.ucr.ac.cr/profesores/Cachi/Literatura Anfibios/robhongo.doc) and retained shed skin is one of the symptoms. 

While the frog showed some of the signs of chytrid it didn't show any of the typical behavior one (but this in and of itself doesn't confirm or deny the potential of chytrid) the only way to rule it out is to get a necropsy performed on the female or get the male tested. The white spots you obseved may have been secretions from toxin glands. 

Ed


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

you didn't mention any other frogs in the viv otherwise I wouldn't have thought of Chytrid. also what little I know about the disease suggests that they are lethargic when contaminated, which is contradictory to what you described. In the end I probably should have kept my mouth shut, but I always feel obligated to tell people something if no one else has commented on someone’s question yet. Sorry for your loss and I hope you figure it out.


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## davor123si (Dec 28, 2007)

Yes it was a small breeding setup, the tank measures 40x25x25 cm. The temperature is 24,5 degrees celsius, humidity is arond 90% at night and drops down to 65% at midday, there is ample ventilation.

I concluded that the reason for this sudden death was stress. The female was scared every time I sprayed the tank, the male didn't seem to care and infact stood right under the spray, whereas the female usually quickly hopped to a higher position in the corner of the tank and hid among the leaves..

I have one more question though, what would be the absolute minimun for a 1:1 breeding setup for pumilio (cristobal morph), and the same with the ratio 1:2...

kind regards and many thanks for your answers,

Davor Martincic
SLovenia


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