# Spate of deaths and issues getting a necropsy



## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Over the past few months, I've lost all 4 of my tincs, 2 of my leucs, and yesterday I found one of my male azureus dead in their tank. The female is plump and healthy, and the male wasn't skinny at all. This pair had been throwing out lots of eggs, but all the tads turned out to have SLS, so I decided to give them a rest from breeding for awhile. I cut down the amount of food and dried out the tank a bit. Everything seemed to be going fine. Both females had lived in this tank for more than a year with no problems. Then I found him dead.

I had taken the frogs in to the herp vet in Seattle several times, wormed them, done fecals, but not had a necropsy done because I hadn't found the bodies in time. That and the fact that the last time I had a necropsy done (on a lizard) they didn't find anything conclusive and I basically paid $100 for nothing.

The azureus I discovered right away, so I put the body in the fridge and decided to contact Rich Frye. I got his phone number off their web site and called. Got the secretary, who advised me that Dr. Frye was no longer doing frog necropsies, but was referring them to two pathology clinics. She also said he recommended that the frog be preserved in formalin, and said that it shouldn't be difficult to get some from a local vet. One of the clinics is not far from here, so I gave them a call and they said that they did not deal with the public, that it would have to be submitted through a vet. They also requested that the body be preserved in formalin for submission. I'm sure the herp vet will submit the body for me, but I needed to get the formalin to preserve it in. There's a vet near my work that I've never been to before, so I went there on my lunch hour to see if they could give me some. They told me since it was classified as a hazardous material, they couldn't give me any. I told the person behind the counter the problem with the frogs being so small and decaying quickly, and she asked one of the vets that was walking by if it was OK. The vet just shrugged and said they had to go with what the lab said. It was all I could do not to have a break down right in the lobby.

I don't want any more of my frogs to die, but I'm having a horrible time getting the necropsy done. I've got the body refrigerated, but refrigeration doesn't halt the decay process, it only slows it down. Since the body is so small and it's a frog, I'm afraid that by the time I can get it preserved and/or get it to the clinic it will be so far gone that I won't be able to get any answers. I'll be wasting my money again, and won't get anything that can really help my frogs.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Do you have a vet that you go to regularly, like for a dog or a cat? I can’t imagine my vet not giving me formalin. You might also try the drug store. I’ve gotten it there before. I believe what you want is 10% buffered formalin. 

You may also want to get a fecal done on some feces from the viv, just in case it’s Coccidia that you are dealing with.

Are there any lesions on the dead frog? Doesn’t Chytrid leave lesions?


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## verbal (Sep 8, 2004)

Yeah, 10% formalin is the stuff you want.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

I do have a vet that we take the dogs and cats to, but I had to go to work right after talking to the pathology lab. I'll check with Walgreens and Rite-Aid to see if they sell it once I get off work. If not, then I'll call Twin Lakes Veterinary tomorrow. We've been taking the mammals there for over 10 years, and I'm sure they'll give me some.

As for lesions, I didn't see any. The female looks fine, eats like a pig, and is as round as a marble.


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## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

Sorry for you loss, this can be so disheartening. Have you noticed any mites at all? I have seen mite infestation that is almost impossible to see on a darker frog. Look for both white and black mites. I have had a couple of discussions with individuals lately that believe there are links to mite infestation and mysterious deaths. Dr. Frye mentioned to me that the problem with mites and PDFs is when they are eggs and hatching and far to small to be seen is when they do their worst havoc to the frog. Only an idea.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Here's an update. I talked to the regular vet that my parents take the dogs and cats to, and they agreed to send the frog in for me, since the pathology lab only works with zoos and veterinarians. The cost is steep though, $75 for the biopsy and another $75 for the shipping and preparation of the frog at the vet, since they only work with dogs and cats and don't usually do business with this lab. Still, I'm lucky that the lab charges for biopsies and not necropsies on reptiles and amphibians that are smaller than a ferret. A necropsy on a small bird or mammal would be $250. 

In case anyone is interested, the lab is Northwest ZooPath:

http://www.zoopath.com/

Now I just have to hope that the body is fresh enough and they're able to give me some answers.


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

A friend of mine has lost a few frogs due to mites, that were coming in with his crickets. He took them in for a necropsy, and the vet found they were covered in them. To the naked eye it looked like a white slime.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hmmm....i've had mites...with ff cultures...but if i drop a mite infested culture into one of my vivs, within a week the mites are erradicated by the frogs...atleast i assume its the frogs..i've seen em eat em.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've had mites on freshly dead frogs ast work and each time the general id came back that the mites were scavengers that were probably living in the substrate as those mites are not active predators. 

Ed


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

I have not seen any mites in the tank for a long time. I did see one months and months ago, but it was very active and I believe it was a predatory mite. Right after I saw it one of the frogs (they were froglets at the time) hopped up and ate it with no ill effects. There were no mites on the body, at least light colored ones.


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