# skinny frog, not moving



## cryptokat

I'm sorry if a similar situation has been answered before, but all the "skinny frog" threads I have read are about new frogs. I have had 3 auratus for a few years and their environment has not changed. 

Someone else has been watching my frogs for a couple weeks, and when I got them back all my fly cultures were empty... hmm.. how were they eating? Okay I got my hands on some new cultures ASAP. One auratus was very skinny so I was just trying to feed them as much as possible. I thought about taking out the skinny one, but was worried about the stress of moving, so I left him in and just fed lots of ff's and springtails. This morning skinny frog was not moving. I was worried he was dead, but poked and he moved a little bit. I took out the 2 fat healthy frogs and put them in a 2.5 gal for now, so that skinny frog can be alone to try and eat. This afternoon he still looks bad. Same deal - not moving but moves if I poke. I did see him eat a fly this afternoon. 

Not looking for cause (which I believe is not enough food) but rather what to do now? I feel like a very bad frog-mom and I am really worried that he is getting worse not better


----------



## GTFX

Make sure to keep him/her hydrated and i would even attempt to hand feed him a fly, see if he will take it, maybe hes not eating cause he doesnt have enough energy to move. im newer to frogs but maybe this can help a little, i think the hydration thing is pretty major id give him a little mist onto his skin.


----------



## frogface

What has your frog sitter said? Did something happen? I'm very surprised that a (presumably well fed) dart frog would get skinny in just a couple weeks. Is there microfauna in the tank? I agree to make sure they are hydrated. How did the tank seem? Was it dried out?


----------



## kingfisherfleshy

Hydration and temperature are the two things I would be worried about.


----------



## cryptokat

The tank is very moist and always has been - there is a waterfall and false bottom. Regardless I will continue hand misting. I have been inbetween moving, buying a house, staying at my parents (where the frogs were staying all summer) so I was not paying super close attention to the frogs until I finally got them back here this week. The frog could have been getting skinny over time and I just didn't notice. I noticed him being thin at the start of this week, and he definitely took a turn for the worse today. There isn't really any microfauna that I can see. I have been putting springtails in for a couple years, but they never really seem to establish themselves.


----------



## frogface

I think keeping him comfortable and isolated from the other frogs is good. Why would this one frog be thin and not the others if it was a food issue? I had a group of auratus and one was being bullied. He lost a lot of weight before I discovered the problem. He did well on his own, though. You might think about putting him in the small tank and putting the others back in the larger tank. Just make sure he has lots of cover to feel secure.

Do you have a vet you can take him to?


----------



## cryptokat

hm interesting, I had never thought about bullying, but that makes sense though. I just figured he was slower than the other 2 at getting food and saw others jump on him when he was trying to eat, which was what prompted the separation. I was just worried that moving the skinny frog would stress him to death. I have never taken my frogs to the vet.


----------



## cryptokat

Any other suggestions?? He looks really bad When a ff crawls on his head he blinks but doesn't eat it. He is just laying with his belly on the ground not seeming to care where his legs fall

Thanks for the help.


----------



## frogface

I would get the flies away from him. They may be adding to his stress. Maybe a feeding station with just a few flies.


----------



## cryptokat

I think I was too late in noticing the problem. I think he is dead now.  I took him out and put him in the 2.5 gal on the off chance that he decides to revive himself, and I put the other 2 back in the big tank. Thanks again for your help. I still find this really strange that I have had this trio for about 5 years and one just suddenly (or maybe it wasn't so sudden) died.


----------



## frogface

I'm sorry


----------



## Eagercannibals

If I were you I would break down the tank and sterilize it since you don't know what the cause of death was. In general you want to keep a moist tank for frogs, but dart tanks don't have to be soaked, they don't like having their feet soaked all the time. 

Bullying would be my go to answer as to why the frog died, although generally auratus aren't as aggressive as tincs for example. Frog can't eat and in turn doesn't get nutrients and as a result other conditions arise (calcium and vitamin A deficiencies etc.). So I would keep an eye on the other frogs too. Watch them during feeding and see if one prevents the other from eating; the behavior can be very subtle and doesn't necessarily involve physical contact. 

Good luck!


----------



## Rusty_Shackleford

More info, ie tank size, temp and humidity, etc. would be a great help. As would photos of your setup.


----------



## cryptokat

this is the tank they are in: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/29282-25-gal-construction-journal.html

i used to keep thermometers and hygrometers in there but it was always very stable and the meters just kept falling down


----------



## Rusty_Shackleford

Well that build thread helps a little but not much. I'd still like to know what the environmental parameters were. Including temp and humidity. If the gauges kept falling down I'm guessing the were zoo-med or exo-terra brand. Not the best in the world and if they were the analog gauge type they are probably useless at best. I would make these observations based on what you posted.
1. That tank was too small for 3 auratus
2. That substrate was constantly wet which might have led to a bacterial infection.


----------



## srrrio

Sorry about your frog Kat. Still, you've had them for five years which is a lot longer then most people keep their frogs, and hopefully your other two remain well. I do know that keeping 3 auratus in a 25 gallon is perfectly fine. Does your tank have an all glass lid ? Just thinking that lack of ventilation could be a problem, if the tank was not opened as frequently as it had been.


----------



## cryptokat

Thanks for the insight. Yes it has a glass lid. I don't think 25 gal is too small for 3 auratus. The substrate is moist, but not sopping and there are drier areas that they can (and do) climb to. I did have a digital hygrometer/thermometer following the falling down analogue ones but it ran out of batteries and again did show consistent humidity and temps. I didn't think it was worth the cost to be constantly replacing the thermometer/hygrometer when it was consistent and never prompted me to change anything.


----------



## Tincman

Im sorry you lost your frog, & I apologize in advance if one of the other members already mentioned this, but just in case here are my two cents...Assuming that all other proper husbandry needs of the frogs are met, ie: Temps in the safe zone, Humidity levels kept high enough & some hiding places to make young frogs feel less vulnerable, ect....I have noticed that the key in avoiding the main cause of death of froglets (Malnutrition) is prevention. Froglets better suited/equipped to eat generally will eat more(Bigger bolder more active ones), I have better success with my thumb froglets & tinc froglets by isolating & raising them individually if possible, even if not practical, but I have also found some success in keeping froglets in groups as long as I keep a careful eye on them & feed enough that smaller guys get enough.. The moment I notice one or two are not eating as much as the others I pull them & isolate them. If you catch the "skinny frog" before it is too skinny to actively pursue food you have a good chance of saving it. All of this is assuming it is a malnutrition issue & not a parasite or dehydration issue. I feel bc I run a closed system (all CB & bred) 9 times out of ten it will be malnutrition from what I like to call competitive eating that causes the weaker frog to lose weight. With all this being said, all you can do is give them all the best possible chance at living, some are just not meant to make it... I feel great when 10 of ten of my newly morphed froglets become fat healthy Juveniles, but Im aware that sometimes 9 of 10 is the best I can get & it can have nothing to do with husbandry technique.. Its just simple Darwin's "Survival of the fittest" taking place..


----------

