# Imitator froglet now appears to be missing an arm??



## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

I got these guys on 11.3.2010
The littlest one didn't seem to gain any weight, and was only eating springtails, granted- LOTS of springtails. He stayed only on the bottom and middle level. I doubt he wasnt eating many of the dusted ff's as they quickly climbed to the top of the viv where he didn't go. I did have a feeding station set up, but never observed him eating any ff's.

I was emailing the person I got them from last night, and we decided it was best to separate them and put the little guy in a QT container. I wasn't able to locate the froglet last night. He came out of hiding about 15 min or so ago. and I notice it looks like his left front leg is gone, and the toes on his right front leg are deformed looking. I know he didn't look like that when I got him.

I'm waiting for a response from the seller, but I'm assuming that the only thing I can do for this guy is euthanize him? 
This is the picture I took last night:








And here he is this morning-
.

















Thanks in advance,
Kim


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## M_Rybecky (Mar 16, 2009)

It looks like he has SLS... his front legs were very skinny in that first photo.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I can't see your pics from work, so I'm replying without actually seeing your frog.

I have a GL lamasi froglet that has been going through a similar thing. When he first morphed, he had front legs that were a little small but appeared to be functioning. Then they seemed to get weaker and now his left front leg is curled up under his body. I can move it out but he doesn't put weight on it. The right front leg is still out there but he's not using it much. Pushing himself with his back legs. Not eating flies. 

This is one of Chris's frogs. Hoping he'll be back in NC shortly so he can make the call about euthanizing. 

My first tad.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

If you look closely, I believe his arm is folded up under him. However, you may have a bigger problem. Those front arms look way too skinny. I think you have some spindly leg syndrome going on. Can we get some other opinions on spindly leg syndrome here?

If he's got spindly, then there is nothing you can do but demand your money back...including shipping.
Doug


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm not going to ask who raised that frog and you should NOT say. Not fair to drag someone through the mud before giving them a chance to make it right.
Doug


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

M_Rybecky said:


> It looks like he has SLS... his front legs were very skinny in that first photo.


I've never seen such tiny froglets, so I just assumed that was normal. I guess when looking at his sibling his legs did look even smaller...
Here's his sibling, who is doing fine-


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Good luck with your guy! I'm sorry it doesn't look good for him...



frogface said:


> I can't see your pics from work, so I'm replying without actually seeing your frog.
> 
> I have a GL lamasi froglet that has been going through a similar thing. When he first morphed, he had front legs that were a little small but appeared to be functioning. Then they seemed to get weaker and now his left front leg is curled up under his body. I can move it out but he doesn't put weight on it. The right front leg is still out there but he's not using it much. Pushing himself with his back legs. Not eating flies.
> 
> ...


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> I'm not going to ask who raised that frog and you should NOT say. Not fair to drag someone through the mud before giving them a chance to make it right.
> Doug


I have far too much respect for the seller of the frog. I picked him up in person, and he was hesitant to sell him at that point because the froglet was much smaller than he had thought. I plan on doing any future frog purchase through him as well, so definately wouldn't do anything to hurt his rep!

I know he's busy and won't be able to respond til later this evening, and just wanted to see if I should do something for the froglet sooner than later.


If it's SLS then at least I know I did everything I could for the guy, and he would have had the same fate anywhere


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

I did check him again and his leg is there. I gently nudged it out from under him, and he couldn't hold himself up on it.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Sls.........


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

I ended up putting him down. I went out to the store to buy oragel, and by the time I got back he was fairly stiff and not moving much. Probably wouldn't have lasted much longer anyhow...

I'm waiting until the seller has another froglet availble as a free replacement for this guy.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm sorry you lost him. It sucks to lose a frog, even if he's SLS and there is nothing you could have done.
Doug


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

You have a very patient attitude towards the breeder....unusual in this hobby, but a welcome breath of fresh air, IMO.


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

Philsuma said:


> You have a very patient attitude towards the breeder....unusual in this hobby, but a welcome breath of fresh air, IMO.


Amen to that.


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Philsuma said:


> You have a very patient attitude towards the breeder....unusual in this hobby, but a welcome breath of fresh air, IMO.


Thank you. As much as I hate having to wait for another frog I do at least feel like the breeder is going to stand behind what is said, and make things right. I can't say anything bad about him at all. I'm just not very patient when waiting for things, and I have no idea how long it will be before he's got a froglet ready for me....


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Mistakes always happen and sometimes a tiny froglet will appear ok, only to look a LOT different the very next day. What we do (breeding) is not an exact science and there always a lot of variables and unexpected things that crop up.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm not convinced that is SLS, based on the first picture. It looks more like the muscle mass was lost during the period of weight loss by the frog. Keep in mind that the frog will lose muscle mass during periods of weight loss which if you aren't sure what you are looking at can be misdiagnosed as SLS. 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ed said:


> I'm not convinced that is SLS, based on the first picture. It looks more like the muscle mass was lost during the period of weight loss by the frog. Keep in mind that the frog will lose muscle mass during periods of weight loss which if you aren't sure what you are looking at can be misdiagnosed as SLS.
> 
> Ed


 
Interesting opinion. If that were the case....extensive weight loss for a froglet, then husbandry issues and overall care will def be questionable.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> Interesting opinion. If that were the case....extensive weight loss for a froglet, then husbandry issues and overall care will def be questionable.


 
Look at picture one and three and look that the diameter of the upper and lower sections above and below the "knee" joint. The upper sections of the working limb and the non-working limb are the same and can be accounted for by muscle mass loss. The lower limb section on the working limb is robust, I've seen marginally affected SLS froglets and the lower limb would also be thinner and not properly formed in the case of SLS. We don't see that here, instead we see a frog that is bilaterally similar above the "knee" and deformed on one side below the knee.... SLS would show deformation both above and below the knee joint. 

The loss of the one limb could have been due to a trauma resulting in an infection. Infections that get into the bones of the animal can cause loss of bone with results in that kind of problem. Also a frog with that kind of infection can lose weight quickly as it may not feed well (or at all) and metabolic needs are lost in fighting the infection as well as fluid loss through the wound.


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## girlwithafrogtattoo (Mar 4, 2009)

Ed said:


> The loss of the one limb could have been due to a trauma resulting in an infection. Infections that get into the bones of the animal can cause loss of bone with results in that kind of problem. Also a frog with that kind of infection can lose weight quickly as it may not feed well (or at all) and metabolic needs are lost in fighting the infection as well as fluid loss through the wound.


Ok, so SLS is definately questionable.
As I did post though, he did still have his leg. I was fully intact,and I didn't see any broken skin. 
He didn't seem to gain or loose any weight in the 10 days I had him. Could this be from not getting suppliments? 
This picture showed his legs on the day I got him- you can see they are basically the exact same.










Honestly, I thought I was doing what was best for the froglet when I realized he wasn't eating the melos to continue to try and get as many springs in him as possible. I had planned on giving him some FF larvae, but he was too far gone from what I could tell anyway.


Phil- 
Do you mean my husbandry and overall care? I know the breeder takes care of his frogs, and I did the best I could in the time I had him. As was stated he was very tiny when I got him. Couldn't it just be there was a froglet that failed to thrive? What could I have done differently?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I was just going thru some "what if" correspondence with Ed. Truth is, we will most likely never know what caused that issue.


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