# frog with worms - what do I do to clean the tank now?



## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I am treating some frogs for worms. What do I need to do to clean the tank? Anything? I hope the answer is not to completely remove everything...

Kristi


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

Umm... You aren't going to like this answer. There really isn't a way to clean the tank short of removing everything and starting over.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Yuck. And I guess if I don't they will just keep getting reinfected? 

Now I have another thing that is going to be niggling at the back of my mind. I have only one thermomter/hygrometer and I have been rotating it throughout all of my tanks since they sit in different parts of the house so I can monitor the temps. I have wiped it off before placing it in a differnt tank, but not really cleaned it. I might need to go ahead and treat all the frogs just in case. I'm not redoing all the tanks though!! Maybe just that one.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

back2eight said:


> Yuck. And I guess if I don't they will just keep getting reinfected?


Exactly - once you discontinue the medications, the worms will be able to reparasitize.



back2eight said:


> Now I have another thing that is going to be niggling at the back of my mind. I have only one thermomter/hygrometer and I have been rotating it throughout all of my tanks since they sit in different parts of the house so I can monitor the temps. I have wiped it off before placing it in a differnt tank, but not really cleaned it. I might need to go ahead and treat all the frogs just in case. I'm not redoing all the tanks though!! Maybe just that one.


This is one of the reasons that it is very important to keep each tank as best "isolated" as possible. Instead of treating all of the frogs blindly - have fecals checked on each tank (if its in the tank you will want to treat all inhabitants anyway). This way you will know for sure what you are dealing with. You will need to break down any contaminated tanks if you wish to eliminate the parasite.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Jeez, sorry to hear this, Kristi.

Other responders: is it possible that the CO2 method would take care of shed worms/worm eggs? Maybe if repeated at certain intervals? That's a lot of work, too, but maybe more appealing than tearing down a viv...


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

That;s right, I hadn't thought of that possibility. I know where I can get some dry ice, if that would work, and I'd rather do that than to redo my whole viv. Although out of any of my vivs, this would be the easiest to redo, I still would rather avoid it.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

It may not be effective - as it assumes that the parasites require an aerobic (oxygenated) environment to survive - but this is not the case for many parasites - particularly those that spend part of their life cycle in an oxygen poor environment in the host.

Here is link to an older paper that addresses the above point.
Energy metabolisms of parasitic helminths: adaptations to parasitism

We also can't account for the environmental stability of the nematode ova. If CO2 does affect the adult worms, it may not affect the eggs.

You haven't mentioned yet what species of worm is infecting your frogs - as that may help determine possible routes of eradication. However - I still think scrapping the one definite tank and monitoring the others is necessary if the worms are causing deterimental effects to the frogs health.


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

how do pdf's pick up worms? I mean I know they have a healthy load normally but how does it get to the point that they need treatment? are they brought in on plants? The reason I ask Is that I'm about to set up a bunch of 10 verts and I'd hate to make elaborate perminant backgrounds now if there's a good chance I'll have to tear em apart later on. Hrmmmm, I'm thinking I may be directed to go read a book as I write this.  gotta get some


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I don't remember what type of worms they are. I took a fecal to a vet the first time, but now they are back. They are floating in the water bowl right after the frog pooped in the water. The first time this happened I didn't think it was actually parasites because I had always been told you couldn't visually see the parasites that our frogs carry, but a fecal said they had worms. I treated the frogs but didn't do anything to the tank and now they are back. 

The only thing I can think is that they had the parasites when I got them (I've had them for a year) or perhaps some crickets that I fed them were infected. I don't know how they got them, only that they have them.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Did you collect the fecals from the tank, or put the frog(s) in a "clean" temporary housing for collection?
I have heard that soil nematodes will sometimes give a false positive for worm type parasites.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

no, i got it from the tank.... I'll google soil nematoids and see what they look like.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

well, I still can't tell. What happened is that the frog pooped in the water bowl. Normally when that happens I clean it out, but for some reason I was busy that day and didn't clean it. The next day there are all these tiny worms swimming around in the water. It is like maybe there were eggs in the poop and then they hatched. That is what happened before, and the vet said worms and gave me the medicine. However, it was not a herp vet and didn't know a thing about it. He wanted me to administer it orally. Try adminitering oral medicine to a tiny frog - just the thought of it made me cringe, so I didn't. I thought I might break its jaw or something, and I certainly didn't want to stress it out. so I just crushed it up real fine and dusted the food with it. I know that you can't control how much they get that way, but the only way the vet would tell me to do it was orally. So anyway, I think they really did come out of the frog and not the soil in the tank.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Kristi
Are the frogs actually sick/ill in some manner?

It is still quite possible (and IMO probable) that the worms you saw were not actually parasitizing the frogs.

Best, I think to pull the frogs from the tank, put them in a temporary quarantine tank with paper towel base, and collect some fresh samples.

Send them to a qualified amphibian vet (perhaps you did that already), to get a corroborating test result.

Treat the frogs (if found to be needed) in the quarantine tank.

and if they truly were "infected" in a "clinically significant" way (I bet many in most collections harbor some type of pests without "illness"), then scrap the tank, wash your hands :wink: , do the eeew yuuck wiggle :wink: and cross your fingers nobody else got "it".

Best, 

S


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I guess I will do that. Thanks Shawn! All I have is a small animal vet, not a herp vet, but they should still be able to tell if there is parasites or not, so I will take a clean sample and be sure once and for all. I did move the thermometer/hygrometer from this tank to a different one with a quick wipe-off and that was it.... yuck. But I certainly want the frogs to be okay!

Acting sick? Not that I can tell, but I dont' want to take any chances. I had a "flood" in the tank so I have the top uncovered to let it dry out some and the humidity is in the 80s which is lower than I usuually keep it so that is probably why they are spending more time than usual in the water bowl, but that is the only thing I can tell different.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

contact Dr Frye and send him the samples.

S


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

back2eight said:


> The only thing I can think is that they had the parasites when I got them (I've had them for a year) or perhaps some crickets that I fed them were infected. I don't know how they got them, only that they have them.


That's likely. Do you breed your own? Many insects like grasshoppers/crickets commonly carry the larval stage of tapeworm and who knows what else if they can carry that.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes, and I rarely clean out the cricket bin. I am cleaning it out now though. I saw a cintepede in it the other day.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Do you keep them outside. Is there any possibilty they came in contact w/ polluted/contaminated water. If other creatures are present they will poop like anything else which could be a transfer method. Tight finely screened lids. 

How was the centipede able to enter, if that happened it could be anything and I would think this is most likely the culprit. Unless they were already present in the frogs and you just happened to notice because the frogs became stressed


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Better to error on the side of safety and get fecals done, but it sounds like soil nematodes to me.

Flooding the tank would likely bring them up out of the dirt. Many times you will also see them swarming around dead ff's drowned on the glass.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I will still do a fecal to be sure, but I hope its not harmful to the frogs and that I don't hav to redo the tank!

About the crickets - yes, they are outside, and I have seen other bugs get in with my crickets. It has a lid but it is not tight. I don't use pesticides or anything so I'm not worried about any chemical coming in contact with the frogs.

Thank you all for the help! I'll let you know what the fecal results are. I've only lost one frog, and I certainly don't want to lose another!


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

back2eight said:


> I will still do a fecal to be sure, but I hope its not harmful to the frogs and that I don't hav to redo the tank!
> 
> About the crickets - yes, they are outside, and I have seen other bugs get in with my crickets. It has a lid but it is not tight. I don't use pesticides or anything so I'm not worried about any chemical coming in contact with the frogs.


I wasn't thinking chems, I was more or less thinking about the transfer of the parasites from one unrelated org to another, which is incredably easy for these things to do. Tjhey're at the top of the food chain ad rule over everything flawlessly. Then the thing you don't/didn't see like other pests (mice droppings) who knows. It's really hard to say for sure as I can guess pretty well but details alway will lead you to answers.



> Thank you all for the help! I'll let you know what the fecal results are. I've only lost one frog, and I certainly don't want to lose another!


Sorry to here that. I take it is effecting your Auratus?


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

my leucs


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