# 60 Gallon construction



## arielelf

I just finished my new 60 gallon terrerium that I have been building in my office at work. I just planted it a couple of weeks ago and have introduced the new inhabitants. I have been working on this tank now for over 2 months. Almost every piece of the actual tank was recylced, as the materials were taken from my workplace dumpster, such as the foam, plexiglass, and plywood. I has been a lot of fun and very challenging to figure everything out, and I am actually sad that I am finished now. I am having terrairum building withdrawals. Time to build one at home! I'm thinking 120 gallon.

I have included my processes for anyone who moght be interested. I use a little different tecniques that I have been working for constucting backgrounds. The main difference is that I use a high quality inert packing foam that we use here at the museum, rather than the expanding foam. I did use the expanding foam to "glue" down the wood, I also used screws beacuse of the weight. I have found that the expanding foam does not hold the material that I use for the rocks as well as the packing foam.

Here are the photos.

This is the tank with the foam cut into general rock shapes and hotglued in place. The final shap of the rock does not have to be exact in this stage but it is good to cut off as many hard croners and edges as possible because they will have to be covered in the mortar mix later, makes it look a little more natural.









This is the rocks with a first coat of thinned underlayment cement. Underlayment cement is used to level floors and to feather out uneven edges in floors, and to make birdbaths. It contains less portland cement than a regular cement mix, it also has a bonding agent mixed in that helps to adhear to other materials and also makes it very slightly flexible.

The mix must be very thin so that it can be worked into the pores of the foam to create an very strong bond, sothing that does not happen with the expanding foam.









This is the second coat which I put on a little stiffer and I am starting to sculpt the rought rock shapes.









this is the third and almost final coat of cement. The cement can be sculted with tools as it starts to set up. You can even start to do more delicate sculpting after it has dried for a few hours. 









this is a closeup of my waterfall before being finished.










I did one side at a time, this is the start of the other side and the various steps.










the thin coat again









the second thicker coat with the begining of the sculpting of the rocks









near the end of sculpting









The next step took a couple of weeks to finish. It involved spraying down the rocks with pure white vinegar over the period of a few days. I would spray the rocks, saturating them for an hour at a time(the cement will absorbe the vinegar for a long time so keep spraying until it doesn't dry out for a while) I then let it set for about a week. After setting for a week I began to flush it with water using a bucket and palstic cup, you need more water than just spraying it. I kept changing out the water and testing the water that came off of the rocks until I had gotten the p/h level to 7.0. This step took the longest but was definitely the most imortant.

Next after neutralizing was painting. The first step is to give the rock a dark undercoat to work off of and then build up layers of lighter colors. Just be sure to go slow and build up slowly and mix the colors up a bit from rock to rock. I add a little green and bron stainat the end which gives an aged look. 
Here are some photos of various stages of painting.





































I decided to go the a repticzone 501 turtle filter for my pump and it has been great! It is silent and can be cleaned from the outside of the tank which is so much easier then other pumps that I have used. I plan on building a box to hide the pump.



















I decided to define a pool are so I had to create more rocks. 




















Here is the finished planted tank with plants from Black Jungle.




























Sorry about the thermometer wire, forgot to move before the photo.





































Here are some of the new inhabitants




























That's it. Any ideas or suggestion?


----------



## arrow-frog-fan

Suggestion: Pack that thing up and send it directly to me!!! That thing is awesome! Great job!


----------



## spydrmn12285

That looks very cool! Great viv, I enjoyed reading through your post. I really like the hard work you went through to make sure the hardscape checked out. What did you use to paint it? Everything seems good, I don't know how the imitators and the terribilis will get along, but in a tank that big, it shouldn't be too much of a problem, especially when they're young.


----------



## Jencylivez

Great viv!


----------



## Chondroholic

That looks awesome! Great job on the rocks. I may have to try that sometime in one of my vivs.

-Brian


----------



## arielelf

Thanks guys! It was a lot of fun. I used non toxic craft paint which works best because it dries matte which looks more natural than glossy regular acrylic.


----------



## omarelay17

If you're still having construction withdrawls you can build me one!  That looks amazing. Good looking frogs, too.


----------



## arielelf

Sorry about all of the typo's. I forgot to check everything before I posted.


----------



## housevibe7

All I can say is holy [email protected]#@


----------



## GSXR_MURRHEE

I agree with housevibe. Your tank is freaking amazing!


----------



## jmoose

A.M.A.I.Z.I.N.G !!!
Love it and want it.

So let me ask you something. You built that while working at museum ... meaning you build these type of artificial backgrounds for displays as professional ?
Do you work at American Museum of Natural History ? I know they are doing "Frogs: a chorus of colors" right now

Anyways, great job and can't wait to see for your home 120G once it's built


----------



## the_noobinator

wow. just wow. i need to try that technique.


----------



## Guest

Amazing! Great work, it looks so beautiful!


----------



## Azsunspot161

*viv*

ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL

love the rock technique, I bet it helps with the weight of the tank too - I hate having to move mine all the time.

Congrats - its a beautiful home for your frogs :mrgreen:


----------



## DartMan

REALLY nice!

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Tim F

housevibe7 said:


> ... holy [email protected]#@!


Ditto.


----------



## arielelf

Thanks guys! It means a lot to me coming from you all.

I did this tank after hours at my job at the Metroplotian Museum of Art. I am one of the mount makers/installers. I didn't work on the display terreriums at the Museum of Natural history but I did go to see the exhibit and it was great. I took lots of photos of the exhibit and plan on posting them sometime soon.


----------



## sports_doc

arielelf,

extremely nice job. I'm very impressed. I bet you would do well making a tree stump buttress in similar fashion.

Hope the frogs do equally well for you. 

Shawn


----------



## Frogtofall

Great work. The rock background is by far my favorite part.

Are there both P. terribilis AND D. variabilis in there??


----------



## arielelf

Terribilis and imatators. I also have a pair of Santa Isabella with them but they will be moved as soon as I have a another tank set up for them. The S.I. are more aggresive than I thoght they would be. The Imatators and the terribilis hang out together all of the time, so I think that they will be fine togther, for now at least. I am keeping an eye on everybody. The S.I's will definitly have to be moved though.


----------



## Kiari43

:shock: 
WOW! The way you did the rocks was truly artistic!


----------



## Frogtofall

arielelf said:


> Terribilis and imatators. I also have a pair of Santa Isabella with them but they will be moved as soon as I have a another tank set up for them. The S.I. are more aggresive than I thoght they would be. The Imatators and the terribilis hang out together all of the time, so I think that they will be fine togther, for now at least. I am keeping an eye on everybody. The S.I's will definitly have to be moved though.


imis! Ahhh...

I'll tell you one thing... P. terribilis are voracious! When they get big enough, you may find a few imis missing. Hehe.

One thing is for sure though, that viv is sweeeeeeet. Nice work again.


----------



## volcom69

WOW sweet lookin tank man great job.


----------



## ian

That viv is amazing! One to truly envy. I would love to try that technique.


----------



## Grassypeak

Incredible! Have you checked the pH of the water feature? I’m curious to know if the cement is still buffering the pH.


----------



## arielelf

I checked the ph this morning at it tested out at about 7.2. I think that it will be fully cured soon considering that it is such a thin veneer of cement. I think that usually the thicker concret is the longer it will remain basic, and since the cement in this tank is no more than 3/8ths thich then it should probably be close to nuetral by now. It is funny becaue as I was rinsing the vinegar from the wall I was hoping that I could get all of the acid out, I guess that I did, at least on the water feature. 
Should I add a little ph down solution to the water or is this a safe level, by the way what ph level do PDFs like? I have been searching and can't seem to find much info on this. I was assuming that it was 7.0 but I guess that it might not be.


----------



## jpstod

Man, that is one labor of love...I don't know if I could stand to spend that much time waiting for it to be finished..


----------



## Studdlygoof

so as far as your foam pieces go...are they all individual pieces glued together to make a larger tapestry of pieces?...or is it a larger piece of foam with a few smaller ones glued to it to add some character?...curious if all that made any sense at all?


----------



## arielelf

It is a bunch of small pieces glued together. The cement actually bonds everything together very well, even somewhat to the plexi, so it is very sturdy once everything cures. I think that the foam that I used is called closed cell ethefoam(spelling?) and it is veru flexible and does not tear easily, which works out well because the cement I use is underlayment cement, which has a bonding agent mixed in that makes it very slightly flexible so it doesn't flake off like morter or regular cement would. It does not stick to expanding foam though, it just chips right off when it dries.


----------



## Studdlygoof

awesome...thanks


----------



## Hak

Raw talent. From idea to completion.

I bet the cement would stick to the great foam if you scored it or cut a layer off to expose the porous inside once it has dried.


And again, simply amazing viv. Very well done, i am re-inspired.


----------



## mnchartier

Out of curiousity, how did you mount the plants to the background seeing it is coated in cement?


----------



## lestat

Wow! :shock: That is absolutely amazing.


----------



## arielelf

Thanks!
As for the cement sticking to the great stuff, I have tried it, both by scoring and not scoring and did not work very well. The great stuff does not have the elasticity of the closed cell foam so if it gets dented it creates a cavity behind the cement which weakens it, while the closed cell foam will always keep it's shape to support the underlayment cement.

As far as mounting the plants, I pre-made large pockets in some of the overhanging rocks to hold dirt and sphag. moss and, of course, the plants.

All of the plants seem to be doing fairly well except for the largest bromeilad mounted on the wood. It seems to be slowly dieing. Any ideas as to why it is dieing?


----------



## kyle1745

Great looking tank, but those imis will be gone soon. Terribilis will eat anything that moves. People have even fed then dried foods on a stick. I have seen them eat some very large crickets 2-3 times larger than a imitator.

I do like the rocks and they came out very nice.


----------



## arielelf

I thought that it would be a problem also, but two very respected breaders assured me that these guys would be fine together, one of them also kept imitators with terribilis without any problems at all. He said that the Terribilis never showed any interest in them at all and that he thought that they knew that they were not "food". I hope that they are right. I don't want to lose any $80.00 frogs!!!

Also the dart frog exhibit at the Museum of Natural History had tanks with terribilis mixed with Pumilio and Thumbs.


----------



## AccidentalChef

I hope you don't mind if I steal your technique for my next viv. I just hope I've got the talent to make it look half as good as yours. Awesome work.


----------



## arielelf

Please do! Just be sure that you take the time to fully neutralize it with vinegar, and to flush it with water before adding any plants or animals. The teqnique is very forgiving, and allows you to keep changing or adding more cement until you get what you want. The hardest part, in my opinion, is the final painting and getting it to look natural. I have found that going very slowly with the painitng helps a great deal, don't rush it, and try to dry brush with as little paint as possible on the later coats of paint.
Have fun, I sure did. I am sad that it is finished, I am ready to do another one!


----------



## Jencylivez

Could you share some info on that wood? I've been looking for a piece just like for quite some while


----------



## frog

really nice


----------



## HX

Very, VERY nice work sculpting the stone.



arielelf said:


> As for the cement sticking to the great stuff, I have tried it, both by scoring and not scoring and did not work very well. The great stuff does not have the elasticity of the closed cell foam so if it gets dented it creates a cavity behind the cement which weakens it, while the closed cell foam will always keep it's shape to support the underlayment cement.


A quick view to the above.
Underlayment cement might not stick well enough or hold on its own when you make thin layers of it.
But at least where I live we have special underlayment stuff for evening out those difficult surfaces, wooden floors, for example. In addition to binders, it's got tiny strips of fiber in it. Glassfiber of some sort.
That holds on its own even in thin layers.

Another thing you can do is lay down a layer of tile plaster onto the GS.

And then just add some cement binder into the underlayment cement on top of that.

Should hold. And if you go throuh the trouble of getting rid of the smooth surface of GS (kinda automatically happens, if you sculpt it), then it holds without a question. I have made stoning with expandable polyurethane foam and cement based materials and have had no problems. I just don't like to sculpt it as much as I do other materials.

And again, exeptionally good work with the viv.


----------



## omiga13

wow , love your viv!


----------



## arielelf

Hi Jencylivez, sorry I forgot to respond earlier. The larger piece of wood is a maple root and the other is some tropical wood, can't remember the name. I got them at the White Plains reptile show for a great price, the large piece was only $35.00.


----------



## Jencylivez

I knew I should of made it to that show!


----------



## AndrewFromSoCal

I am very, very jealous.

Good work.

Maybe I will do something like this for my cresties..


----------



## Greenstar

Great looking viv, hands down one the best hobbyist made tanks of all times. Just one quick suggestion, I like the idea of having terriblis in there as they are are nice bright frog and give you something to look at and easy to spot. When you take out the imis you might want to replace them with some Phelsuma Quadoccelatus or Laticauda or Klemmhri. If you wanted to stick with frogs adding some nice reed frogs would add a very cool touch to the upper reachers of the tank. Just make sure if you are goign to be adding any none CB, or even CB for that matter, animals that you quaritine the hell out of them just so you don't get some nasty fungus or bacteria in your tank. Again absolutley stunning.

Danny


----------



## ErikB113

we can all only wish we had that aT home. nice job


----------



## KeroKero

Beware of baby geckos in with terribilis... both terribilis and bicolor have been known to go after freshly hatched small geckos of the same size...


----------



## ErikB113

did you have to coat over the paint with somthing to water proof it?


----------



## kyle1745

I was wondering if we could get more of an explanation on the painting as well. Also what and where you picked up the concrete.


----------



## arielelf

The underlayment cement that I used is called Ardex Feather finish. Here is Ardex's website
http://www.ardex.com/home.htm

I did not seal the cement with anything other than the paint. I find that most sealers leave an unnatural look to the stone even if it is a no gloss finish. The foam underneath is waterproof and is used in boat constuction so it can take being wet. 
The Paint is simply non toxic craft paint that dries fairly matte, especially if it is applied in thin coats. The first few darker coats were applied fairly watered down so that it would penetrate the cement. These first coats were a mixture of black brown and a little green. I then let those dry slightly and took a dry paper towel and dabbed a little bit off of the high spots. The next colors to go on are gradually getting lighter and drier and thinner. It is good to mix colors up a little as you go and to be sure to place various colors of rock throughout the tank, I used browns, pinks, greens, and burnt yellows all mixed very subtly with the greys. Each layer should be lighter and applied more carefully than the last. I just softly dab or bush across the surface with very little paint also I dab it with my fingers if I accidentally add too much color, I dab it around with my thumb to spread the color out in patches so that it doesn't look like a brush mark but a rock pattern. Every so often I will let the coat dry and apply a very thin and somewhat wet layer of a darker "aging" color such as brown or green brown and black and dab it off with a paper towel leaving a lttile in the cracks. 
Just remember to be subtle and go slow, also the paint will dry different then it looks when you apply it, just try to do it in many sessions so that you can get an idea of how it is going. It is a good idea to find a picture of rocks in nature that you are inspired by to copy from. I use a lot of different brushes, I especially like the chinese bristle brushes and I trim them to my liking. Usually the more worn the brush the better. Just remeber that if it doesn't look good you can do it over. If it starts looking bad then try an "aging" layer over it, it is surprising how much it will help.
Sometimes i will apply the paint with a paper towel and dab it on. Just mix it up and try not to do too much of the same thing all in one spot. The last few layers that I do are greens and browns to simulate moss and lichen.
I hope this helps, I am not very good at explaining my tecnique.


----------



## calvin415

Sorry if this is beating a dead horse, but aren't craft paints water based? I'm just trying to understand how they can hold up in a wet environment?


----------



## arielelf

Craft paints are acrylic, which is water based. Acrylic polymerizes when it dries so it become impervious to water, to an extent. The paint will eventually begin to wear away, but hopefully there will be enough natural moss growth and age to remain natural looking. The paint is just to make it look old now, and not like freshly layed cement. It helps that the cement itself is grey underneath so it will still look like rock as it wears, hopefully at least. Moss has started to slowly take hold a little in my tank now, which has been planted for a couple of months. I don't have a misting system yet, but I think that once I do the moss will spread even quicker.


----------



## calvin415

Cool, thanks for the clarification.  

Very sweet setup BTW! I'm hoping to do something similar on a little larger scale...


----------



## AaronAcker

would love to see an updated picture once the plants get established, and are growing in.


----------



## Ben E

KeroKero said:


> Beware of baby geckos in with terribilis... both terribilis and bicolor have been known to go after freshly hatched small geckos of the same size...


am i correct in thinking you watched the baby mourning gecko offerings to the terribilis gods of naib?


----------



## KeroKero

It was before the terribilis... it was the bicolor. They had smashed noses for a reason... evil teases of geckos... but the tiny little baby gecko came out to snap some pinheads from in front of a bicolor... last time it ever did that. I just about died in shock when I saw it! :shock:


----------



## chrism

Any updates on this tank? Is stunning!


----------



## housevibe7

I second the desire for an update.


----------



## melas

thanks for bumping this chrism! This is amazing! I'd love to see some updates as well!


----------



## gotham229

any updates on the tank?


----------



## atlfrog

*wow*

This is a great tutorial. I have learned alot here. I was wondering how you make the rock layers and loved with what you did. Thanks and great job!


----------



## arielelf

I thought I would add some updated photos. 

The tank and frogs are doing well. The imatators have been successful at raising a tadpole and it has just sprouted legs a few days ago, so I think that they are happy.

The tank has really grown in with very few plant casualties(which is unusual for me, I don't usually have a green thumb) I am having a hard time deciding if I should prune more than I have, the frogs seem to love the huge amount of foliage.

Moss has taken root all over the tank and on the fake rocks, which has created a much more natural look to them. I have even had a couple of mushrooms here and there. I have added a couple of new plants including a neet little pitcher plant.

I did have some trouble with the plexi warping too much, even to the point where one corner almost completetly failed which would have dumped gallons of water all over my office desk. I reinforced the corner by riveting on an aluminum croner brace which seems to have done the trick. I will definitely be going with glass on my next tank.

Any way here are the photos, sorry there are tons!


----------



## Mywebbedtoes

I have often wondered about this tank. It's ok.

Just kidding :shock: :shock: :shock: 

This thing is GRRRRREAT!









It has grown in so nice, and I am very glad to see your frogs doing so well. I wish my company would let me do that.


----------



## housevibe7

Beautiful growth! It looks even better than it did if that is possible. Glad to hear the frogs are loving it too. Thanks for the update.


----------



## jpstod

Truely amazing is all I can say.

Its actually hard to believe that the Rocks are not real. Without having seen the first Pics, theres no way that I would believe they were made out foam to begin with.

I am looking at doing something in my large tanks when I build them..I just ain't that artistic.


----------



## Cloudfish

Truly beautiful! I'm in the process of building my very first viv and am documenting my progress. I can only hope it comes out a fraction as nice as yours has. Great job! 8)


----------



## MattySF

I'M FLOORED. DIDN'T THINK IT COULD GET MUCH BETTER!
OUTFREAKINGSTANDING!!


----------



## Mikee

wow, that rock work makes it just..wow. Now it with lots of green...just W O W. I cant get over the rock work..damn..how about making these for others and sending it their way for some $  lol. I really love it i demand more pictures soon!


----------



## andrew__

wow, this is (easily) one of the best vivs I've seen.


----------



## AaronAcker

absolutely awesome!


----------



## GINT

*more info please*

Can you provide more info on a brand of the paint,and where i can buy foam.Very very impressive set up


----------



## lukebalsavich

This vivarium looks wonderful...

If you are half as meticulous with your frogs as you were with those 'rocks', they are some very lucky creatures indeed.

I do have a couple questions though:

Am I correct on understanding that there is no false bottom, gravel, or drainage layer on this enclosure?

Has the vivarium maintained a more or les neutral pH? I am wondering if you will see changes in this as the acrylic paint slowly wears off (especially in the waterfall area). Chemists feel free to chime in here!

Well that is about it. Again this setup looks wonderful.


----------



## Julio

wow, tank looks great! very nice selection of plants.


----------



## Toad and Bun

I think any pH issues from the cement would easily be offset by some peat in the water. I was curious, do you have any guestimates about the longevity of the cement? How long did it cure before you gave it the vinegar? Would this lower its life?

Sorry so many q's... The tank really looks awesome and the rocks are very realistic. I'm in the planning stages now, I think this would actually be easier, if not more time consuming than great stuff.

just wish I had a good source for foam. I this the stuff electronics are sometimes packaged in?

Matt


----------



## arielelf

Hi,
Thanks,
There is a drainage layer of LECA with a layer of plastic screen seperating the LECA from the soil. 
The PH level has pretty much stayed neutral. The paint is supposedly non-toxic, but I do not know about it's ph value. There is very little paint used, mostly it was applied in thin washes. The paint is really just there for a temoporary aging affect until the moss takes hold and the cement starts staining and looking naturally old on it's own.
The foam that I use is different from the foam used in packaging electronics, it is flexible and a little heavier. It is called closed cell foam, or ethefoam. I believe that it is used in boat building because it does not absorb any water, because of the closed cells. It has a plasticy feel to it.

The cement seems to be holding up very well, and I am fairly certain that it will continue to hold up, but only time will tell.
I believe that I allowed the cement to cure for a month before the vinegar bath. There is so little cement(less than 1/4" ,and in most areas 1/8th"to 1/16") that it cures in a very short amount of time. Usually it is the thickness that determines the cure rate.


----------



## arielelf

By the way, my new Imatator froglet just started venturing out of his brom, so he(or she) is on his way to become a real frog soon! 
This is my first Dart froglet so I am very happy. The trio has even started laying new eggs and two of them are succesfull, and the tadpoles are soon to be transported to a new brom home.
This is such a cool hobby!


----------



## porkchop

No Punn Intended, But You Rock...
That tank is amazing, wish i had the imagination and patience.
First froglets are exciting, and your right, this is a great hobbie !!!!


----------



## Toad and Bun

arelelf,
is this ethefoam (ethafoam?) the same material that those swimming pool toys (long tubular foam...I always called em "water wienies" are made of? I've been looking for this but can't find a source. It sure seems like an easy way to go for backgrounds.

Matt


----------



## arielelf

Yes, I believe that it is the same foam. I don't know where the museum gets the stuff, but I can check around and see if I can find the source. Maybe it comes in other colors, now that you pointed out that those pool toys are in colors. A nice dark grey would be nice, but it is not neccesary since it will all be covered with cement anyway.
It is an easier way to create more complex rock structures than the handi foam since you can carve it in pieces and glue them together. I find it hard to maneuver inside a tank to carve the handi foam. It is also easy to add pieces on, which is very difficult with the handifoam.
It takes a little more time than the handifoam technique, but it is a fun way to work. It is relaxing for me.


----------



## Toad and Bun

I like that you can slowly design it and not have to rush while things are drying, etc. I'd appreciate any sources you can come up with. I did a google search but found mostly sheets and most was pretty high priced. It would be nice to find a local source. What does the museum use it for, btw?

Thanks!

Matt


----------



## arielelf

They use it for packing artwork for shipping.


----------



## phearamedusa

slightly off topic question with regards to this foam. How does it hold up to heat? I need to find a lighter way to build a rock wall ledge for a desert terrarium(have leopard geckos). No one seems to build anything like this, at least that I've run across so far. 
Thanks for the info.
Melanie

I think this is an awesome viv. btw it almost makes me want to get into frogs.


----------



## arielelf

The foam will melt with heat, not sure at what temp it melts, but the hotglue sort of melts it a little. It is used is boats, so I guess that it can withstand failry high outdoor heat(at least 100 degrees) which I doubt your tank would get too much higher than that.


----------



## The Lorax

i think this is one of my top 2 favorite tanks i have seen... I do masonry and work with cement frequently so i am def. going to make my first tank similar to this. thanks for the inspiration. i love especially how the moss is all over the rocks too.


----------



## jon

What kind of light(s) are you using?


----------



## Amphiman

Can we get an update of what the tank looks like today?


----------



## arielelf

The last photos were 2 months ag so there has not been much change since then, at least not enough to warrant new photos. Looks pretty much the same.
I have installed a new light though, a 17" 96w Fluorecent quda bulb. I previously had 2 exo-terre hoods with 2 26w compact flou. in each, I replaced 1 of the hhods with the 96w light. I now have 148watts of light for a 60 gallon viv. Seems like a lot to me but it looks natural and I think that the broms will like it. I am getting much more light to the floor now.


----------



## jon

Excellent. Thank you arielelf.


----------



## crazy_fish_guy

this display is beautiful. you are an inspiration to us all. excellent work!


----------



## arielelf

I have been getting lots of PM's asking me why I do the vinegar wash. I kind if confusses me because it is explained at lenght a few times througout the post, but I guess that many people are like me and scan the written parts.

The vinegar wash is *THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP IN THE PROCESS!!!!!!!* :mrgreen: 
The vinegar nuetralizes any alkaline areas of the cement that for some reason might not have fully cured. Cement will become nuetral when all of it's alkaline properties have been used up in it's thermo-chemical hardening reaction, as long as it stays hydrated durring the reaction process. The water combines with the powdered cement to form a hardended material, it does not just evaporate. This can take a while so the cement must be kept damp for at least a couple of weeks or more. I let mine cure for, I believe, a month. 

The vinegar is sprayed on the cement until it is completely saturated, and this is repeated many, many times over a period of a couple of weeks or so. Then it is rinsed with tons, and tons of water flushes, checking the flushed water until it is nuetral ph or around 7.0. This is a long and extremely tedious process!!!! But it is the most important part.

I have ordered some Habi-Crete mortar, which is supposed to be inert, but I have not tried it yet. I have a feeling that it will save me lots of time that I would usually spend nuetralizing. I would suggest that people try this product before the cement.


----------



## divingne1

I have spent over $500 on supplies for a viv that is going to look VERY basic and noobish. I am just curious if your total cost for that mind blowing viv. is under my cost.


----------



## arielelf

It depends on what you consider construction costs. Everything in the construction of the actual tank itself, other than the driftwood, was free. All of the foam, plexi, plywood, cement was pulled from the dumpster at my work, so it is practically a recycled tank. However the LECA, pump, lights/hood, and plants are another thing. I must have about $150.00 in plants, $20.00 in Leca, $75.00 in lights and hoods, $20.00 in fans, $35.00 in driftwood, $15.00 silicone, $5.00 plastic screen, $15.00 soil, $40.00 pump. So I have about $350.00 invested, without frogs. Wow, i have never added it up before.

It would have been a lot more if I had bought a front-opening tank this size custom made, and I now wish I had made it from Glass rather than plexi. It has warped quite a bit. Now I know for next time!


----------



## divingne1

Your pictures are an inspiration. What type of paint did you use? Was your foam that flexible kind? Did you use craft hot glue?

My world of warcraft buddies are going to think I fell off the face of the earth. I am going to be "AFK" for quite a while trying to make my viv look half as good and professional as your viv. First it was frog crack until I narrowed down my frog choices...now it is viv crack.


----------



## garysumpter

Thank you!!

This is the inspiration I needed, got a LARGE exo terra arriving tomorrow, then the fun can begin  

Gary


----------



## divingne1

after going back and re-reading all of your posts, you have answered all the questions I asked 2 posts up. I could not find the foam that you used so I am going to try styrofoam. I don't know if the cement will adhere to it but I am going to give it a shot. If it does work, then I am going to be replacing my current background with the cement covered styrofoam one.


----------



## thedude

:shock: man this tank just keeps looking better!!!!


----------



## garysumpter

What type of vinegar is used for this?

Also is the cement material available at a main diy place?

Many Thanks

Gary


----------



## Demosthenes

arielelf said:


> The last photos were 2 months ag so there has not been much change since then, at least not enough to warrant new photos. Looks pretty much the same.
> .


You don't need a reason to update with pictures of this viv, it's simply amazing! I think you could post a new picture of it every day and I wouldn't be bored with it. I love that you have a pitcher plant in there. Everything seems to blend so harmoniously together.
The only thing that kinda sucks is you spent so much time on the rock section and it's being over grown by plants, but it's cool to be able to see the rocks peaking out from all those plants. The moss growing over them looks pretty sweet too. Very cool looking habitat for your frogs. I wish I was a frog in your tank! 
Okay, that's taking it a bit far. :wink:


----------



## edrd

Parfait !


----------



## edwing206

Absolutely beautiful tank. Those frogs are very cool too.
I have a question about the foam. Is it any of the ones in the link? Also, how thick was the foam you used? 
http://www.closedcellfoams.com/

Thanks-Luis


----------



## arielelf

Good find Luis! I believe that it is the Polyethylene Foam that I used. I would suggest the half sheet of the 2 inch thick stuff, you can always cut it into thinner layers from that. That price seems fairly reasonable also.


----------



## edwing206

Ok cool. I hope you don't mind me copying what you did.  

Since there is a dark gray color what steps would I need to make it look like yours? All of the steps? 


Thanks-Luis


----------



## Toad and Bun

I think the etha-foam or ethefoam that arielelf used is a form of polyethylene foam, but of a specific density (sorry I don't know what it is). It comes in a variety of cell sizes. I am nearing completion of a 56 column terrarium using this method and I got this material from the IT guy at work. Some computer components are shipped in it, although it sounds like they don't use it much anymore. 

The material I used is the same as that used for "water noodle" pool toys that kids use for floation and smacking each other around. Remind me of that old SNL "Nerf crotch-bat" sketch  

I can't imagine paying so much for it. I found blocks of it available on the web so it's out there. I'm sure if you got out the yellow pages and looked for some places, such as computer stores, that receive a lot of delicate material you can get someone to give you some. The online prices IME are way outta line but that's your call. I guess in the scheme of things its a small price to pay...

A word of advice: If you use this stuff make sure that you cut off all of the "factory edges" on it... This opens the cells leaving a rough surface the concrete can stick too. It doesnt like to stick to the smooth factory surface and will give you fits.

Matt


----------



## rrrragdoll

I have been following this thread since the beginning, it is awesome!

Question, was pond cement and sealer an option? I thought maybe it would have been less of the rinsing and vinegar.


----------



## arielelf

Yes, the density of the foam is important. It is the same as those Water-Noodles pool floats like Matt said. There are foams that are similar that are either more or less dense, but the density acually plays an important role. It has to be dense enough so that it does not squish so easily that the cement cracks, and it has to be not so dense that the bubbles in the foam are so small that the cement does not adhear, or go into the holes. The bubbles provide spaces for the cement to enter and hold onto the foam. I will try to find out the actual density( the name for it) of the foam I used.

I do not know about pond cement. I have never used it so I couldn;t say, but I would not assume that just sealing it would solve the problem, because the tanks get so wet that the water will eventually find it's way behind the sealer and leach out and make the water alkaline. I would definitly acid wash the cement, no matter how well it is sealed and wash it very thoroughly. Or just use the HabaCrete mortar.


----------



## HappyHippos1

Another option, I know fish tank DIYers have had great success with, is to put a couple powerheads in the tank and fill it with water to the top, let it run for a few days and do daily water changes for about a week or so. Salt can also be added to help accelerate the process.

This might not be an option because some of the viv tanks aren't made to be filled all the way up with water.


----------



## Toad and Bun

I filled mine up with water to cure. Figured that the hydroxide would leach diffuse out into the water. The pH rose substantially in a few days. Then I vinegar sprayed it for a few days and then I refilled with water and added about half a gallon of vinegar. 

If I were to do it over, I'd just add water and a gallon of vinegar and let it sit till the pH stabilized (I have a pH pen) and then drain and refill, sit a day and drain. 

Arielelf couldn't do that with the open front, but it's an easy option with aquaria.

my cement is still soft enough that I can gouge it with my nails. Was yours a similar consistency hardness when dry, arielelf? 

Matt


----------



## arielelf

The cement needs to remain damp while it is curing so I kept spraying it with water for a few days after sculpting. It is tricky though to get it just right though. Mine has cured to be very hard. It does remain kind of "soft" for 15-20 hours after aplication, which is nice because you can go in a scrape in finer details into the rocks with steel tools. You might want to try spraying it down for a few days, It might still cure more.


----------



## Toad and Bun

I'm done with the vinegar and water phase, and it's still a bit soft. I kept it pretty moist thru the first week or two of curing, so maybe it just needs to dry solid now... It'll be hard enought to be durable, just not rock hard.

I'd like to try this with just portland. I've got a hunch it would work ok...

Thanks,

Matt


----------



## arielelf

Matt, One thing that I have found is that if you add water to thin down the cement after it has started to set up a little it will not be as hard and not as strong. I learned that in the begining, and now I just mix up smaller batches so that I don;t have to worry about it setting up before I finsh applying it. 
Also, if you are adding a layer on top of another cured layer then the underlayer needs to be saturated with water very well, all of the way through the layer, or else it will wick out the water from the top layer and not allow it to cure correctly, which will lead to a soft rock. You might want to try adding another layer on top, but then again it might dry hard enough as is.


----------



## Toad and Bun

I think your second scenario is what happened with mine. I just started slopping it on without wetting. I used dripping wet cement and I found that it produced "rocky" looking effects without any sculpting. It was difficult enough to reach the bottom without doing any carving, so I'm glad that worked out as well. You were lucky to be able to access thru the front. I'm getting ready to paint... I anticipate that will be difficult on the low spots too... 

Today I drained the water and vinegar out and it has finally dried completely. It has gotten harder, but still not rock hard. I'm happy with it though. I think it will be pretty durable anyway.

Thanks for the continued feedback!

Matt


----------



## edwing206

Matt, what type of cement did you use? What was your mix ratio? So you just mixed the cement and added it to the foam? No sculpting? Did you spray it down with water and vinegar? Or did you fill the whole tank with vinegar and water?


----------



## Toad and Bun

I used the same stuff as arielelf. I'd like to experiment with some portland mixtures but don't have time/energy for it. A 2:1 ration of cement to water is recommended but that seemed way to stiff. I eventually liked a very "sloppy" mix closer to 2.5:2 or something. It was the consistency of nearly melted ice cream. Sorry that's a crappy description. You'll get the feel for it.

I did not carve at it. By applying multiple coats it gave a nice, uneven, natural weathered rock texture. Also, since I did this in an aquarium I couldn't open the front and access the "rock" it is difficult to reach the bottom. It was hard to adequately cover the bottom with cement and now again as I'm painting it...

I sprayed it with vinegar then got tired of that so I soaked it in straight water until the pH stabilized. Then I drained it and added vinegar and waited again. The pH slowly raised again then I rinsed it out and started painting. If I did it again I would only use water and let the hydroxide ions leach out. It's really all you need to do. In arielefs' defense tho, there is no other good option but acid neutralization when the tank front is open. A aquarium allows you to fill it and let diffusion do it's thing. 

Make sure you keep the cement wet constantly while it dries, including prior to new coats of cement. Cement needs water to go thru the chemical reactions to harden it. Seems counterintuitive, but it's true. 

Hope that helps,

Matt


----------



## edwing206

Cool, sounds easy enough. Did you use the same foam that arielelf used? Where did you get it? And about the drying, you have to keep it wet while it dries? Like spray it with a spray bottle every once in a while or what? Thanks for the help.


----------



## Toad and Bun

I used the same foam; I got it from the IT guy at work. Computer components are sometimes packaged in it. The disadvantage to this is that the pieces are rather small and linear. This required some creative use to make it look ok. Working with larger chunks is much easier to create a rocky appearance. I hope to post on my tank-build in the next week or two...

All cement should stay moist while curing, it makes it harder in the end. I didn't do too good of a job of this and my cement cured a bit soft. If I were to do it over again, I'd seal the tank tightly and pour water over the cement as often as possible.

HTH


----------



## mh32

Looking online for a few minutes I found this.
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2078&deptid=1091
It seems fairly inexpensive. How far do you think a sheet this size would go. I'm thinking of doing a 120 gallon tank. I experimented a little on a smaller tank but put the paint on too thick and ended up just painting the cement instead of doing more of a wash.

Great setup, by the way, just hoping mine can be half as good.


----------



## edwing206

Any updates?


----------



## M_A_B

Wow! nice! This one of the better tanks that i have seen


----------



## Cobra

That is a beautiful tank, do you know where I can get that foam that you used for the rocks?


----------



## Carinya

Just absolutely beautiful! I am new to vivs & frogs but have read your thread carefully today & I have a couple questions that don't seem to have been answered. I have done a styrofoam/cement background for a seahorse saltwater tank so I understand most of the mechanics of the wall & curing that you're describing (although I used a different foam & cement type). Mine wasn't as artful as yours, but I digress...

I am not clear on how you finished the substrate & LECA portion. Specifically in this picture:









there are gaps that lead under the foam to the water reservoir. I know the area wasn't finished at this point... Presumably one would want to prevent frogs from getting up behind/underneath the foam. Did you entirely fill the hollow areas with LECA & then add the planting substrate on top? Is there a layer preventing the substrate from getting down into the LECA? Similarly, how is the pond area is sealed off to prevent frogs from getting under the foam (and possibly drowning) while at the same time providing water flow from the pond back to the pump? (I'm sorry if these are extremely basic questions)

How do you keep the water uptake area (with the two concentric rings) free of debris from the water or substrate? I see you have several holes & notches for water to flow in. Debris in the water would possibly clog these holes...

Lastly, I'd just like to confirm that you had to run the flexible tube to the top of your waterfall prior to putting the foam in place. I don't see an exit pipe or valve, but I assume it is just somewhat hidden by the rocks. Are there multiple outlets or just one? If this tube is permanently affixed in the background hardscape, what happens if there's a problem (clog, leak) with it?

Thank you so much for your advice and for posting this project in the first place.

C


----------



## arielelf

Hi Carinya,
I filled the bottom with lots of Leca and made sure that all of the areas behind the waterfal and everywhere were filled in so that the frogs could not reach the water(except in the pond area)
Over the Leca I put plastic screen and then my dirt, but every gap was filled in. 
I forgot to make a post about the filtering system, the cylinders have holes from large to small as you go from the outside to the inside to keep the filter from clogging, even though there is really hardly any debrise that gets into the water. 
I built a fake rock cap that goes over the tallest plastic tube that emerges from the ground, but forgot to post pictures of it. It keeps any curious frogs from getting sucked into the filter. I will try to get some photos of it.

I found out from a co-worker that the Etha-foam that I used has a density of 1.7 lbs. which is just strong enough to not flex too much but not so dense that the cement will not enter the cut cells of the foam. The cut cells of the faom are like little caves that the soupy cement can enter and get trapped and harden, which create an amazing bond, which cannot be replicated with regular foam. I was not able to find out where he gets it.


----------



## Carinya

Thanks so much.

C


----------



## Viaje

You vivarium is completely stunning, I hope to try this technique soon.
The last photos you posted were learly 6 months ago, can you update us?


----------



## reptileink

didn't read all 9 pages, but I read this on the Ardex website

*Notes*
This product is intended for interior use over dry substrates only. Do not use in areas of constant water exposure, or in areas exposed to permanent or intermittent substrate moisture, as this may jeopardize the performance of the underlayment and the floor covering. This product is not a vapor barrier, and will allow free passage of moisture. Follow the directives of the floor covering manufacturer regarding the maximum allowable substrate moisture content, and test the substrate prior to installing ARDEX FEATHER FINISH. Where substrate moisture exceeds the maximum permitted, Ardex recommends the use of ARDEX MC™ MOISTURE CONTROL SYSTEM. For further information, please refer to the ARDEX MC Technical Brochure.

does the paint prevent this?

Also read this: 

*Precautions*
ARDEX FEATHER FINISH® contains Portland cement. Avoid eye and skin contact. Mix in a well-ventilated area and avoid breathing powder or dust. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.


----------



## Nubster

So has it been determined if pool noodles can be used as a foam source? How about foam archery targets that are a solid block rather than thin layers? The noodles would be great because they are on sale locally 2 for $3 and the archery targets are $15 for a huge block of foam.


----------



## xm41907

I'm curious about how your frogs are doing. Any updates? Pics?


----------



## IndianaJosh

If pool noodles will work it is clearance season for pool items! IF not, that nrsweb.com has it for a good price, also available in black, and the shipping is fairly inexpensive. (I wonder if they pack foam with foam...)

I am tempted to try this method on one of my Exo Terras!

I can not wait.  

My only problem is the fact that I am impatient. I think HabiCrete will be the way to go for me.


:?: Could you still paint he HabiCrete? :?:


----------



## DrSalsa

Wow!!! Nice Tank!!! 
Truly inspiring... I'm just about to start a new project, and THAT TANK is something to take into account!!!

RESPECT!!!


----------



## mh32

That is denfinatly inspiring. I've wanted to try it for a few months now and finaly had time. I've attempted this method and am now in the curing phase. I'm wondering if I soak the concrete in water how long the curing would take. I have it in a tank completly submerged.


----------



## kamazza

very well done! must have some happy frogs! this is what i dream of my terrarium looking like! dont know that i could pull it off as nice as this, kudos to you for this one!


----------



## pacaAndrew

I just finished a 55g high viv and thought it looked really good. Then i saw yours. Thanks a lot.

It's B-E-A-utiful by the way


----------



## rapscallion

EXCELLENT article and your work Looks fantastic..
I am so motivated in trying your technique out, would it be possible to direct me to where I can find the foam you use and where you get the underlayment here in New York?. 
thanks, for sharing the great article/pictures..

chuck


----------



## psychedelicwonders

wow I wish I never seen this. It looks so good it's not even funny.

I'm just wondering on the overall shelf life of your rocks before they start to leach bad things into the viv?


----------



## madadi

very nice. definitely adding this one to my list of inspirational tanks for when i start building mine.


----------



## skylsdale

psychedelicwonders said:


> I'm just wondering on the overall shelf life of your rocks before they start to leach bad things into the viv?


Arielelf mentioned this in describing the build process:



> The vinegar wash is *THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP IN THE PROCESS!!!!!!!*
> 
> The vinegar nuetralizes any alkaline areas of the cement that for some reason might not have fully cured. Cement will become nuetral when all of it's alkaline properties have been used up in it's thermo-chemical hardening reaction, as long as it stays hydrated durring the reaction process.


----------



## Pirateglow

That might be the best tank I have seen. Very good job.


----------



## clwatkins10

How very cool. The rocks are amazing.


----------



## imitator

Not only the interior is awsome, I also like the size of yout tank!
Could you please tell me the measurements of yout tank?


Thank you!


----------



## loogielv

well looks like the OP is no longer active in here, but i'll give this a shot...i read the whole thread btw. no repeat questions here:

You said you glued all the pieces together to make the rocky 3d effect, which is totally breath taking btw. However, my question is in regards to the small rivier bed after the waterfall on the bottom of the tank. This:


























In those pics, i see little rocks in the "river bed". There's only 2 explanations for them: either you made each rock and glued them into place, or you carved each rock from a larger piece that made up the entire "river bed".

Either way, your'e incredibly patient and beyond talented. Can you explain how you made those rocks? It's those little details that I'm after when I start my viv coming up pretty quick. I have no problems blatantly copying you. I have no shame! 

thank you for the good read and i sincerely hope you're still active


----------



## melas

OR they are REAL pebbles . . . haha! I used some real pebbles in my rock wall tanks because I thought that's what he had done here. This is certainly an amazing job he has done and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that he HAD created the pebbles.


----------



## ggazonas

That is just amazing


----------



## loogielv

melas said:


> *OR they are REAL pebbles . . .* haha! I used some real pebbles in my rock wall tanks because I thought that's what he had done here. This is certainly an amazing job he has done and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that he HAD created the pebbles.


blast! I've been outsmarted...


----------



## gotfrogs

Great tank arielelf! I was inspired by your setup and am attempting to make something similar. I have a question though (please chime in anyone), how long does the featherfinish material need to cure? I added some water on the rock work that I made (about 48 hours of curing) and it seemed to soften or break down a little. How long did you wait before adding the vinegar to the rock work. Was this done only to neutralize the pH of the material or to also help it cure?
This is the material that I used:








Her is a picture of the work that I have done:


----------



## loogielv

gotfrogs said:


> Great tank arielelf! I was inspired by your setup and am attempting to make something similar. I have a question though (please chime in anyone), how long does the featherfinish material need to cure? I added some water on the rock work that I made (about 48 hours of curing) and it seemed to soften or break down a little. How long did you wait before adding the vinegar to the rock work. Was this done only to neutralize the pH of the material or to also help it cure?
> This is the material that I used:


i dont know if you have a thread already, but you'd be better off asking your questions there. More people will see and i think the OP might be MIA


----------



## MarcNem

I am thoroughly impressed. That is a great looking tank. I have made some pretty naturalistic looking tanks (or so I have been told), but this one is very nice. I plan to use a combination of your rock method, and a few others to create my newest show tank. 

Once again GREAT JOB!


----------



## McBobs

Any updates?

-Matt


----------



## pacaAndrew

yes please, updates, or new tanks.........something


----------



## crsaz

could plain ole' portland be used to turn an entire room into a "cave" and does the styrofoam cooler boxes are made of work for this?


----------



## DCreptiles

that is a beautiful tank the work is amazing ilove how it came out.. the greenage really brings out the detail of the rock formation. you are very talented.
-Derek


----------



## Ziggi

I am in love lol.
Don't tell my wife though.

I'm very interested in doing something in this manner in the near future.
I'm thinking of doing it for many of my other types of tree frogs as well.

Do you have a journal or build of it?
Perhaps you could pm me with some quick instruction on how you went about and what type of material you used.
Appreciate the help!

Congratulations on the magnificient job!


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Simply fantastic, this has to be one of my all time favourite vivs, usually I find a few things I would change but there isn't anything on this one.

Great job!


----------



## ray1taylor

Wow that is amazing! I love how u did the rocks they look so real and narural! It looks like a real cliff lol. Love it!!


----------



## maxdendros

Man!!!! Thats an sweet cage!!


----------



## pedan

Looking incredible, good thinking taping off the wood...


----------



## Colleen53

Any new pictures of your tank? Would love to see what it looks like up-to-date. Thanks


----------



## Mikembo

WOW!  I can't belive This is the first time I've seen this viv! awsome build!

-Mike-


----------



## rob65

WOW! I must say that is an amazing looking vivarium. I wish you were my freind.


----------



## rjudson88

Hey, so sorry if this has already been asked, SO many pages of responses to go through. What was the purpose of the vinegar? Something having to do with neutralizing bad toxins in the cement you used? What about that new pet mortar type stuff, I'm blanking on the name of it, oh, Habacrete. This looks amazing, I had a whole plan set up for my viv and now I'm back to square one debating the slightly easier but not as cool idea or an all out project like this, but modified for cresties. Thanks! What an awesome job.


----------



## davidadelp

You have an amazing tank, but I noticed you said there was a large exo terra being shipped. Do you intend on doing the new tank the same way?


----------



## McBobs

rjudson88 said:


> Hey, so sorry if this has already been asked, SO many pages of responses to go through. What was the purpose of the vinegar? Something having to do with neutralizing bad toxins in the cement you used? What about that new pet mortar type stuff, I'm blanking on the name of it, oh, Habacrete. This looks amazing, I had a whole plan set up for my viv and now I'm back to square one debating the slightly easier but not as cool idea or an all out project like this, but modified for cresties. Thanks! What an awesome job.


The vinegar neutralizes the pH of the cement so that it does not cause any harm to the inhabitants. 

-Matt


----------



## rcteem

update if OPis still around???


----------



## ChrisK

rcteem said:


> update if OPis still around???


I picked up a 36*18*24 exo terra from him in brooklyn about a year and a half ago, sent him updated pics of it after it was planted and didn't hear back from him and he hasn't posted since...............


----------



## melas

According to his public profile he hasn't been on in over a year . . . 



> Last Activity: 07-18-2009 10:46 PM


----------



## A&MGecko

Holy cow, man you are an artist, I am new frogger and first time I see this.
Man, where in New York you located I would love to learn some of those tricks.


----------



## earthfrog

This is also my all-time favorite tank display. The only thing I would add is some leaf litter so there could be a good colony of isopods going (maybe hide it in the back so the moss and rocks would still look nice).


----------



## Arpeggio

That's absolutely gorgeous! I love the water feature.


----------



## RNKot

No update for this one ever?


----------



## Jon Mason

Beautiful tank. Have to say I'm more than a bit jealous!


----------



## InHoc1855

Awesome tank!

Every time i feel like i have a handle on what style i want to use to build my next viv i come across something that makes me second guess myself.


----------



## EntoCraig

Simply incredible. I am going to try this in a smaller 20 long. Great Post.


----------



## arielelf

Thanks guys!
I am actually tranfering the rocks to another tank, a 18x24x36"high exo-terra. The original plexi-glass tank finally started leaking and warped quite a bit(never use plexi!!)
Hopefully the new tank will last a long time.

The underlayment cement has held up perfectly and has aged and grown a tiny bit of moss. 
I removed the wood because the new tank is narrower and I didn't have enough room for it.

I will be sure to make a post when I have it all together.


----------



## GRIMM

HX may be the master of creating fake driftwood, but you Arielelf are the master of fake rocks. Unreal! I never did post on here since I figured you were long gone off the forums, but since you are back I figured I'd post some praise. Looking forward to "Version II" of this tank.


----------



## thedigipix

SO i just wanted to say that for those trying to find the polyethylene foam I am pretty sure that the black pipe insulation at home depot is the same stuff the sticker and box is says it is polyethylene foam.. so this is a alternative to order it online or use pool noodles...


----------



## MrBiggs

arielelf said:


> Thanks guys!
> I am actually tranfering the rocks to another tank, a 18x24x36"high exo-terra. The original plexi-glass tank finally started leaking and warped quite a bit(never use plexi!!)
> Hopefully the new tank will last a long time.


I know this is an old thread but did this transition ever happen? Are there photos of the new tank?


----------



## Brock

I missed this thread so thanks for resurrecting it! 

Here is the exo terra after a bit of searching around http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/69174-exo-terra-65g-build-pic-heavy.html


----------



## Alextravis

That's awesome


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Seth W

Good thread, I made the mistake of trying the wrong cement on the wrong type of foam (should of read the whole thread) but now I know that doesn't turn out well. Did a real quick search about neutralizing cement and found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYdLW-4sSX4 not the exact same method for doing it but seems to get the same end result. This place seems to have both open and closed cell foam Open-Cell Foam - Poly, Acoustic, Dryfast, Lux, Color Foam & More


----------



## Scott

For those who have reported the images not being available (in the original thread).

This thread is from 2007. The source photos may be gone, the host that had the source files may be gone. Maybe both.


----------



## raycentral

Thread brought back from the dead lol


----------



## Scott

Left the note here because someone reported it since none of the original pictures are displaying any longer.

Left the note with why the pictures no longer display ...


raycentral said:


> Thread brought back from the dead lol


----------



## pH0ks

arielelf said:


> This is the rocks with a first coat of thinned underlayment cement. Underlayment cement is used to level floors and to feather out uneven edges in floors, and to make birdbaths.


Any advice on what type of underlayment to use? There are so many, self-leveling or not, I saw one that was latex based... I'm concerned that I'll choose something that is toxic to animals even after curing with vinegar, or that won't hold up so well. You wouldn't happen to remember the brand, would you? 

This will be for a large planted Brazilian Rainbow Boa terrarium. 

This has been the loveliest-looking tek I've come across so far, so if I can even come close to that, I'll be thrilled with the outcome!


----------



## Josiahfish

Can you repost the pics? Thx


----------



## mjguinoo

Do you have a video tutorial on how you made the rocks? The pictures are gone. Your work is too dope!


----------

