# please rate my viv



## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

before i start. I am a newbi at keeping frogs. this is also my first real plant viv. on that note what i need from you guys is imput. how is the tank coming along so far? and do the plants look ok where they are? or even do the plants go with each other? any input would be nice

http://s373.photobucket.com/albums/oo173/fork203551/?action=view&current=099.jpg


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

I don't want to sound rude but just take this as constructive criticism, I don't think the plants go very well together, the foreground is bare, the plants are all similar heights, and the background is ok. To improve this viv you might want to think about putting the tallest plants in the back and then working your way forward from tallest to least tall plants and pdfs need places to hide this viv looks very barren and needs some shelters the background would also look nice with some sort of vine growing up it (which of course takes time to get established), not bad for your first viv but look at photos of nature and then try to recreate that in you viv if you want it to look natural.


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

im going to have to agree with Azure your backround is lovely but the larger plants in the rear smaller plants in the front. try to get some type of ricca or java moss that will provide good color to the viv a hut in the top right corner would do great and of course some nice pieces of leaf litter will provide your animal with a sence of safty and comfort. im no pro but thats just rule of thumb. but i mean otherwise ur on the right track. and that viv looks better then most ov seen for ppls first times.


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## pilo0024 (Aug 22, 2006)

well seeing as how you ask for thoughts i don't feel the need to apologize before i make criticism. it's a great first start. The plants are all rather large for the size of the viv, especially since they're all about the same size. mixing in some ground creepers and vine type would be sweet as the last poster noted. it's awesome that you want to keep learning. spend some time just looking at people's set ups on here, especially the smaller ones like yours. there is some great inspiration and no one that i know of frowns on "stealing" landscape ideas. be patient, all the cool vines and creepers take time to grow and look awesome. good luck!


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## Mworks (Mar 23, 2008)

Firstly if you are going to keep PDF's you have done the right thing by joining Dendroboard and asking for advice and comments - the responses you get will be helpful and usually from people who have years of first hand experience in keeping dart's. This site has everything you need to take your first step into succesfully keeping dart frogs.
I would put further work on hold and start doing some research on this forum. A good place to look is in 'construction journals' which will give you a good idea of how and why people construct their tanks the way they do. Next look in the plants forums there is loads of info on what species will do well.
Hope this helps

Regards
Marcus


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

first off i'd like to say thank you to who ever replyed. no it's not mean to tell me if sucks and take it apart. I'm new and need as much help as i can get. no i'm not done and nore have all the plants in there. that's all i have done to far. anyway what type of small plants should i get for the ground cover? names and pics would be best. I also got a nice brom i'm going to try to grow on the back with some vines. not sure it will work but will try. one last thing.. what do you guys think of the grass type plant in there? does it have to go or just be cut down?


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

You have a great attitude and it isn't the worst tank I've ever seen, at least you used real plants.

Try some Sphagnum moss on the bottom, or even just the riccia or java as previously mentioned. Even sheet moss could help. Creeping fig could be nice in the tank. I would also suggest a peice of driftwood reaching from bottom to top so the frogs would have more area to explore. A hut or monkey pod too, of course. I don't see any problem with the "grass type plant" your talking about, I think it would be nice in that back corner, mine melted not long after being in a tank so I've never used them.

What are you planning on putting in the tank?


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## Ulisesfrb (Dec 8, 2008)

I would second joshieluv. Try some New Zealand Sphagnum moss. I used some on my viv, and most of it is now green and alive. I will add a lot of color to your viv, they you could put some leaf litter on some parts to provide shelter to your frogs. The Sphagnum will take a couple of months, good humidity and good lighting to become alive.

Ulisesfrb


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## bruce (Feb 23, 2007)

Welcome to the hobby!. After many viv's seems the best lesson is "Less is more" I usually have no more then three or four varieties of plant in a viv. using multiples of the same plant to give the "eye" some patches of the same color and textures. Try to match the plant size with appropriate size tank or you'll be doing alot of pruining. Leaf litter cannot be over stressed as a great ground cover as well as something to ground the composition. Again its alot like painting or landscaping, have a focal point, and compliment from there.


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

right now i'm more looking for move this plant out or move that plant to the back. and what else i should add for plants. once i get some nice imput i can go from there to set the rest up. i do have a nice drom for the back gound and some vines.. but need to get the bottom set first. as for the wood. i just got a peice today. will out in later. as for frog not sure yet. looking towords a red eye tree frog but not sure if the tank is the right size. even for a small one


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Hmm.... I might put a brom in the back right corner and then put a small platform/pot mid-way up the left corner and put another small brom. I like the idea of sphagnum moss and leaf litter as a substrate. I also like the plant you use in the original viv, the one in the front right hand side. Big, healthy, green leaves, I'm betting a frog would like that one.


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## Mworks (Mar 23, 2008)

Check this out............

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/11865-good-threads-read-beginners.html

Will give you some ideas.

Regards
Marcus


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## orchid_man (Sep 21, 2008)

You are off to a great start! 
The grass type plant is Dracaena marginata-it will grow into a tree


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## SLEDDER23 (Mar 17, 2005)

I like the back ground (what is that?), and I like the depth you are trying to create with a slope up the back. look at some tanks that you find pleasing and move stuff around until you like the look at it. I suggest taking your time and sitting down with the tank. I really struggled with depth myself, and still do honestly. I have to fight the inclination to make a "flat" tank.

The most valuable thing to learn, you already know, which is that you "know nothing". Not that you really know nothing, but that you are open to criticism as a tool to learn. The wisest thing a man can say is "I don't know". Continue to treat criticism as a chance to learn something new and not a personal attack. I think you have more to teach us than vice versa. How refreshing!!!!


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

here is an updated pic of the viv. i took out the grass type plants in fear of them getting too big. to take there place i added potho's to cover the back ground and what not. added my wood i had and moss. the front left is going to be a water dish or maybe another plant. depends on what frog i put in here.

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo173/fork203551/002.jpg

as allways i'm looking for input.

also with the plastic wrap. do you normaly put it over or under the screen. right now it's under and drips a bit ino the tank. wonder if that's the best


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

Very nice . Now you can get an epiphyte to grow on that piece of wood! Maybe an accent brom? Or a vine? I think your tank has great potential for when it grows in.


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

i'm just hoping everything growes out right and doesn't just die or take over the tank. also what frog would you put in there once everything growes.. looking at a red eye tree frog but think it's kinda small.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

im going to tell you right now that those plants are going to outgrow that tank. there fine now, but plan on having to replant that tank in 6-12 months. that one species of dragons blood you got there that has the red along the sides of the leaves, iv'e seen those at the stores that were 3' tall.


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## 013 (Aug 9, 2006)

In a small tank such as this one, i really recommend using the smallest possible plants you can find. As said: the plants you have in there right now will outgrow the tank. Also; using small plants will make the tank's interior look bigger, making it more pleasing to the eye. 

You really should take advantage of the height of the tank. Try to create some elevation in the floor and get some epifytes to grow on the ferpanel(?). More plants will create shady hiding places for the frogs. Good luck.


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## jelly_shrimp (Apr 17, 2009)

I'm not sure if this is considered advertising or not (is it even bad to?) but on BlackJungle they have a bunch of plants, and they tell you whenther or not they will grow out the tank (what size viv its good in).


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

thanks for all the replys.. going to wait a few and see what happens.. but anything else will be welcomed


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

post updates.


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

after going to the pet store today. I kept eyeing up the baby red eye tree frog's. I just love those guys. while looking in the tank i saw a few that were yellow. asked here price and my jaw allmost droped. they were only selling the baby's for 20 each. long story short i ended up getting 1. going to add it to this tank and let it grow. when it needs to i'll get a bigger tank. Now onto making my 20gal long for my dart. my first question is what's an easy way to make a stream. I don't want to use gs or cork (can't find anything that doesn't cost an arm and leg) so please let me know how to do one without that. Would a fluorescent light cover work?


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## alluringeli (Apr 20, 2009)

just change the layout of your plants and add some more. even add some leaf litter to fill in the gaps. Its trial and error. the more tanks you make the better youll get at it. Hey it was a good first start....


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## jelly_shrimp (Apr 17, 2009)

goatdude said:


> after going to the pet store today. I kept eyeing up the baby red eye tree frog's. I just love those guys. while looking in the tank i saw a few that were yellow. asked here price and my jaw allmost droped. they were only selling the baby's for 20 each. long story short i ended up getting 1. going to add it to this tank and let it grow. when it needs to i'll get a bigger tank. Now onto making my 20gal long for my dart. my first question is what's an easy way to make a stream. I don't want to use gs or cork (can't find anything that doesn't cost an arm and leg) so please let me know how to do one without that. Would a fluorescent light cover work?


I was wondering the same thing, and while daydreaming in advisement today, I thought of something (still need some confirmation on whether it would work). I was thinking of getting some PVC, splitting it, and sticking it in the oven on 30s or 1min intervals (whatever softens it) and taking it out, bending it, putting it in, taking out, bending, putting it back in, rince and repeat. Does anybody think that would work?


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## atlfrog (Dec 31, 2006)

goatdude said:


> here is an updated pic of the viv. i took out the grass type plants in fear of them getting too big. to take there place i added potho's to cover the back ground and what not. added my wood i had and moss. the front left is going to be a water dish or maybe another plant. depends on what frog i put in here.
> 
> http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo173/fork203551/002.jpg
> 
> ...


I am glad to see that you have taken some of the suggestions we talked about in the chat room. Tank is looking very nice. I am sorry that I am late in reply but we have been working on this site behind the scenes. LOL Very well done, this site will help you greatly as there are many people on here that care enough to give you feedback and point you in the right direction.  PS: plastic wrap was to be a temporary fix until you got your versa top. Condensation will develop in any tank that does not have enough ventilation but in my tanks it is used to keep the humidity up as well as water the plants. In my case it helps me out, but my layout and land situations are a lot higher so the top layer of substrate is not going to be affected. Most of the water is evaporated. I do not have an issue with flooding or over saturation in the tank, but it's all trial and error and learning on the fly the best you can. You do want to keep in mind of over saturation of the substrate, but you can always pump out what is not needed, but people have already probably said all of this considering I am so late in the game.


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

atlfrog said:


> I am glad to see that you have taken some of the suggestions we talked about in the chat room. Tank is looking very nice. I am sorry that I am late in reply but we have been working on this site behind the scenes. LOL Very well done, this site will help you greatly as there are many people on here that care enough to give you feedback and point you in the right direction.  PS: plastic wrap was to be a temporary fix until you got your versa top. Condensation will develop in any tank that does not have enough ventilation but in my tanks it is used to keep the humidity up as well as water the plants. In my case it helps me out, but my layout and land situations are a lot higher so the top layer of substrate is not going to be affected. Most of the water is evaporated. I do not have an issue with flooding or over saturation in the tank, but it's all trial and error and learning on the fly the best you can. You do want to keep in mind of over saturation of the substrate, but you can always pump out what is not needed, but people have already probably said all of this considering I am so late in the game.



yea i do have plastic wrap over it. getting alot of condensation and it goes from 65-72 or so humidity. any ideas of ho to get it higher? i mean other then add a better lid


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

now how in the world do i hang 2 lamps on to of this small tank(12x12x18) one light for plants the other small heat lamp.. i mean just until i can getthe right top


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## Ziggi (Jan 23, 2009)

No heat lamp my friend 
have one CF bulb for the plants but no heat for your frogs.
Day time temps between 70-80 are good.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

jelly_shrimp said:


> I was wondering the same thing, and while daydreaming in advisement today, I thought of something (still need some confirmation on whether it would work). I was thinking of getting some PVC, splitting it, and sticking it in the oven on 30s or 1min intervals (whatever softens it) and taking it out, bending it, putting it in, taking out, bending, putting it back in, rince and repeat. Does anybody think that would work?



Check this one out, he has some info on how to bend PVC...


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/19742-construction-journal-44-gal-pentagon.html


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

Ziggi said:


> No heat lamp my friend
> have one CF bulb for the plants but no heat for your frogs.
> Day time temps between 70-80 are good.


you are forgeting this is for a red eye tree frog. and the temp droped lower then 70 so had no choice


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## Ziggi (Jan 23, 2009)

I am not forgetting that this is for a red eye tree frog.
If the temps drop lower then 70 for a little while it's nothing to worry about. Nighttime temps can drop bellow 70 a bit without ill effect.
They can easily tollerate 67-70 for a short period of time then increase back during the day.

If you want to use a heat lamp on your red eyes by all means go ahead, but I vote against it.
Read up on google or other tree frog forums quickly and you'll find out that heat lamps and amphibians are usually a no no.


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

after adding the heat light and getting the temp u to around 78 day and 72 night. i seem to have a major problem with keeping humitdy up. i can mis 4-5 times a day and still it drops down to 60%. the top is 3/4 coverd with glass. anything else i can do to help this poor frog out? not sure why it's droping to much.


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## Ziggi (Jan 23, 2009)

I know what you can do.

Take the heat lamp off.
If your misting 4-5 times a day and have 3/4 of the top covered your just creating the worst case for bacteria and fungus to grow.

I have my red eyes in a full screen lid, no heat lamp, and I mist morning and night.
Humidity and temp are spot on and it's been like that for ages and the frogs are healthy as can be.

I know though that like I said, if there is no ventilation and water being misted like, you are creating a micro environment for bacteria  Won't be long until it stinks and frogs may not do so well in it.

What is the room temperature in your home? Because if it's not warm enough for your red eyes it must be freezing for you right now.


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

you mis the point.. even if i take the heat lamp off it still doesn't go above 70%. and them the temp drops in the mid 60's at night and around 72 or so in the day. we are in basement so can't get any heat without firing the upstairs. so i need something


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

A small portable heater in the room would help.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

Could also be your gauges are wrong. What are you using ?


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## Ziggi (Jan 23, 2009)

That sounds just fine.
Humidity of 60-70% and mid 60's night 72 day has nothing wrong with that.
I'd say go with this set up instead.
Just my suggestion.



goatdude said:


> you mis the point.. even if i take the heat lamp off it still doesn't go above 70%. and them the temp drops in the mid 60's at night and around 72 or so in the day. we are in basement so can't get any heat without firing the upstairs. so i need something


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

Dragas said:


> Could also be your gauges are wrong. What are you using ?


yes the gauges could be wrong.. just picked up a digital one and will find that out. also the petstore said he should be in the upper 70's to low 80's day and low 70's night. also they did state they need 80+ humidty. and from what i've read it's about right but the temp might be a bit high at low 80's


edit:yep the gauges sucked.. now temp is 70 and humdity is 96%.. so i guess everything is ok then


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## alluringeli (Apr 20, 2009)

we use plastic wrap in all of our vivs and we mist once a day and the vivs maintain a constant 99% except the exo terra it drops to low 90's in the day and 99 at night if we mist early. we try to mist early so that it drys through out the day and just has moist air by night ect.. just make sure you seal off all openings every lil area makes a difference.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

goatdude said:


> ... also they did state they need 80+ humidty...


i've never had RETFs, but from what iv'e herd from people who have had them, and what iv'e read, and what people are telling you on here is that this is a frog that does poorly in the high humidity range and that constant 80%+ is a VERY bad thing for these guys. i would check out a few more husbandry care sheets on these guys.


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