# Hello from a Mantis Owner



## CosbyArt (Feb 15, 2015)

Seems to be the place if anywhere for the typical hello message.

I'm a mantis owner, but while doing web searches for various topics of tanks, feeders (springtails, isopods, crickets, houseflies, etc), and various other overlapping hobby items I find myself at this forum often.

The closest I come to dart frogs was a trip I did to meet Chris at CocoHutDartFrogs to buy cultures of Melanogaster, Hydei, Turkish Gliders, and Springtails. That was in October, and the cultures are still thriving and I restart them typically every 3 weeks.

I figured it was time to register as I was unable to see attachment images and other things, so here I am. You can also find me at the big mantid forum, same user name, and I imagine several members are here too. 

Currently I have over 120 nymphs ranging from L1 to L4 instar, the majority I have hatched from ooths (ootheca). While my current mantis species include...

Dead Leaf mantis (Deroplatys lobata)
Egyptian Pygmy mantis (Miomantis paykullii)
Ghost mantis (Phyllocrania paradoxa)
Carolina mantis (Stagmomantis carolina)
Chinese mantis (Tenodera sinensis)

Here are a few photos - one of my current setup (although the majority of my fruit flies and my cricket tank are kept elsewhere), and one of my newest mantis a L2 Ghost, but has since molted just a few hours ago to a L3. You can click the images to see even more of my photos, I have more than enough to keep someone busy for a long time.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Greetings, and welcome! Two questions only one polite:

1) Are all mantis species short-lived? Or are there some that live more than one year?

2) So you are here at Dendroboard--where we talk about plants almost as much as we talk about frogs. So--when are you gonna build one or two planted tanks? Huh? huh? 

(Seriously you do small biotopes--it would $%*@! rock...)


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## CosbyArt (Feb 15, 2015)

Groundhog said:


> Greetings, and welcome! Two questions only one polite:
> 
> 1) Are all mantis species short-lived? Or are there some that live more than one year?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome. 

1.) Yes sadly they typically live only 8 to 10 months in captivity (3 to 4 months as a nymph, and 4 to 6 months as a adult - depending on species and sex of the mantis (females live 2 months longer on average)). In the wild it is even less, and they die with the first frost. Getting to celebrate a 1 year birthday although uncommon does happen occasionally. The longest lived mantis that I read from other owners is typically about 14 months.

2.) Your right. That is a true sign of a dart frog owner, the planted tanks. New mantis owners often tell on themselves, simply by making elaborate planted tanks and showing pictures. I always have to ask them, "So how long have you been a dart frog owner?". 

Most mantis tanks are very simplistic so humidity can be better controlled, and so mantises can easily find their prey. So some mantis owners keep them in a 32oz deli cup their whole lives.

I think it would be great to make a few nice planted habitats. Perhaps with some searching here on the forum I can get to work.


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

Welcome to the board! I've had several species of mantids and stick insects and agree that a planted viv for some of your mantises would be very cool. I've toyed with the idea of a mantis/mini orchid nano viv.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I love coming across them in my gardens and am fascinated how they turn their head to stare...how in the world did you get hooked on them...they are just so interesting...but one obsession at a time. Welcome, and as Groundhog suggested....make a vivarium for them...you'd love it.


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## CosbyArt (Feb 15, 2015)

ChrisAZ said:


> Welcome to the board! I've had several species of mantids and stick insects and agree that a planted viv for some of your mantises would be very cool. I've toyed with the idea of a mantis/mini orchid nano viv.


Thanks, glad to see another mantis and phasmida keeper. If you do that get yourself a pretty Orchid mantis to fit in. 



Judy S said:


> I love coming across them in my gardens and am fascinated how they turn their head to stare...how in the world did you get hooked on them...they are just so interesting...but one obsession at a time. Welcome, and as Groundhog suggested....make a vivarium for them...you'd love it.


I got started in mantises late October last year. I saw a Carolina mantis outside my work in 35 degree weather - so I took her home to save her from a freezing death (freezing temps happened 2 days after that). I looked online to see what to feed her and found a hobby that I never knew existed.

I called her Susanna and kept her nice and well fed. She died of "old age" January 5, and had lived 68 days beyond her natural death of freezing. 

Also she laid 8 ooths and I have incubated several so far (the rest are in diapause), and have many of her baby nymphs. 

Here is a picture of Susanna I took with my phone before I brought her home. Below that is one of her in December enjoying running around during a photo shoot I did of her - and a combined photo of her first nymph that hatched only 14 days after her death.


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## Drteeth (Sep 17, 2016)

I'm planning on building 2 desktop orchid vivaria to house my ghost mantid and acanthops dead leaf mantid. Do you have any full tank pics of your setups? My intention was to make an orchid m antis setup but there aren't any readily available right now. Once I finish my tanks I'll post pics.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Nice to see another mantis breeder here.


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## AzJohn (Aug 31, 2016)

120 nymphs yikes.... the joys of breeding inverts. I've kept scorpions and tarantulas for years. I've bred dozens of species of scorpions and 4 or 5 species of tarantula. Nothing like feeding 200+ baby inverts over th course of a week. I hope mantis don't need to eat very often


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## Wy Renegade (Feb 15, 2012)

Hello, In the last couple years we've started seeing mantis in our area and this last summer my son brought one into the greenhouse with the orchids that appeared to have died. Since it revived, I assume it had only entered a state of dormancy from the cold? At any rate, it has been thriving and I've noticed a decline in the number of insects in the greenhouse. I believe it is a European mantis, but not 100%. Would you have any idea about how long can I expect it to keep living? Thanks


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## Jarhead_2016 (Jan 7, 2010)

Beautiful, now i want mantids and i cant even keep up with my PDF's and my Audi's ugh.


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## CosbyArt (Feb 15, 2015)

Drteeth said:


> I'm planning on building 2 desktop orchid vivaria to house my ghost mantid and acanthops dead leaf mantid. Do you have any full tank pics of your setups? My intention was to make an orchid m antis setup but there aren't any readily available right now. Once I finish my tanks I'll post pics.


I haven't gotten into making much of a vivarium setup still, even though my last post you responded to has been 19 months ago. 

I figured I'd start off small and made a 10 gallon tank I modified, placing it vertically (taking the glass off one side and using it as a door, etc). I used locally found moss, ivy, clover, and such - here are the only pictures I have of it...

















I found it took too much time in maintenance, and way more moisture than any mantids that I would put inside could safely handle. In the end I kept my setups simple, and have been branching out into arachnids primary since then.

If you follow the link there are way more mantid setups by others in the section my post is in too.



diablomantis said:


> Nice to see another mantis breeder here.


Thanks.  It's amazing to see other keepers and what other pets they keep. Seems a mantis is a gateway to many other exotic pets. 

I've been busy collecting local mantid species, but with lows in 50's F recently that put a stop to finding many. So I'll have to switch over to collecting a few ooths (ootheca) until spring.



AzJohn said:


> 120 nymphs yikes.... the joys of breeding inverts. I've kept scorpions and tarantulas for years. I've bred dozens of species of scorpions and 4 or 5 species of tarantula. Nothing like feeding 200+ baby inverts over th course of a week. I hope mantis don't need to eat very often


I have to feed them every other day, so yeah it can get very tiring - especially as I hatch between 2 to 15 ooths (ootheca - egg sacs) at any time and depending on species is 20 to 200 nymphs each. 

Sounds like you have experience feeding plenty of mouths too. I read some tarantula species can have upwards of 400 slings.  So I guess in that regard I won't be too worried when I finally get a T.

With my family being typical arachnophobia people though, I started off with a few bold jumping spiders (Phidippus audax) to get them use to me having some arachnids as pets. Then once a few months passed I got a small vinegaroon (Mastigoproctus giganteus) that they did not know was a arachnid haha, and more time passed then an adult wolf spider (Tigrosa helluo).

I finally got the ok to get a tarantula, so I have been looking at some Chile red dwarf T's (Euathlus sp.) to get me started.  In the meantime I now have 8 bold jumpers, a vinegaroon that spends most of it's time digging and hiding, and 4 large wolf spiders (several nearing 3" with their legs). I think each is interesting and plan to keep them all too.


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## AzJohn (Aug 31, 2016)

Sorry I screwed up the quote.


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## AzJohn (Aug 31, 2016)

AzJohn said:


> I have to feed them every other day, so yeah it can get very tiring - especially as I hatch between 2 to 15 ooths (ootheca - egg sacs) at any time and depending on species is 20 to 200 nymphs each.
> 
> Sounds like you have experience feeding plenty of mouths too. I read some tarantula species can have upwards of 400 slings.  So I guess in that regard I won't be too worried when I finally get a T.
> 
> ...



I've kept all of those. Feeding every other day is pretty busy. Baby scorpions are like that, baby tarantulas are easy and can be fed every other week, but once a week is usually better. Some species of tarantula can have 1200+ babies. No one breeds them. Euathlus species can be really cool. They are great choice for a beginner.[/QUOTE]


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Wy Renegade said:


> Hello, In the last couple years we've started seeing mantis in our area and this last summer my son brought one into the greenhouse with the orchids that appeared to have died. Since it revived, I assume it had only entered a state of dormancy from the cold? At any rate, it has been thriving and I've noticed a decline in the number of insects in the greenhouse. I believe it is a European mantis, but not 100%. Would you have any idea about how long can I expect it to keep living? Thanks


If you are keeping her inside and caring for her properly she can probably make it to January, it is difficult to say for certain, because I do not know when exactly she hatched. As CosbyArt said not many mantis species will reach one year in age, so don't expect her to last too much longer than December. I am in Indiana, and the temperatures are beginning to drop, so I don't expect to see any more mantids once mid October comes around. 

European mantis are a usually green (sometimes brown), mid sized mantis, they always have black encircling yellow/white on there arms, this is how you can usually tell what species you have, because no other mantis species in North America has these eye spots. If you could post a picture of her I could identify the species, and I am sure CosbyArt could as well.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Love all the posts and photos. We released thousands of nymphs this year. I kept five. Sadly one died suddenly this week for no apparent reason and one died after an unsuccessful shed. Am hoping to keep the others healthy and happy through the winter. All are Chinese mantises. Have one week crickets and hydei cultures going for them. Glad to see others love mantises too! Loved to see Susanna.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Love all the posts and photos. We released thousands of nymphs this year. I kept five. Sadly one died suddenly this week for no apparent reason and one died after an unsuccessful shed. Am hoping to keep the others healthy and happy through the winter. All are Chinese mantises. Have one week crickets and hydei cultures going for them. Glad to see others love mantises too! Loved to see Susanna.


You will notice some mantids will just randomly die for no reason, usually these are simply weak ones, it happens, especially when they are pre-L2. As for the shedding issue, I have found that Chinese mantis seem to have this problem more than any of the other beginner mantis species, why this happens I am unsure, but it is something I have noticed.


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## CosbyArt (Feb 15, 2015)

AzJohn said:


> I've kept all of those. Feeding every other day is pretty busy. Baby scorpions are like that, baby tarantulas are easy and can be fed every other week, but once a week is usually better. Some species of tarantula can have 1200+ babies. No one breeds them. Euathlus species can be really cool. They are great choice for a beginner.


[/QUOTE]

Wow, 1200+ babies would take forever to feed, and that is just one mother.  Interesting to hear that about breeding, but I have no desire to do that. I'd be happy just to get a few as pets. 

Great to hear the Euathlus sp. would be a good one. So far I have been making a list of goodies needed to start the T hobby, and saving up, that way my T has everything it needs.



diablomantis said:


> ... I am in Indiana, and the temperatures are beginning to drop, so I don't expect to see any more mantids once mid October comes around.
> ...


Indiana for me too, south of Bloomington in Bedford. 

You are right about the recent temperatures. I collected 31 wild mantises Sep 12, then on Sep 27 I only found 6. It is amazing what lows in the 40's F does to the insect life. I'm hoping they are just hiding out in trees/thick bush to stay warm, and return when it warms back up over the weekend.



cwebster said:


> Love all the posts and photos. We released thousands of nymphs this year. I kept five. Sadly one died suddenly this week for no apparent reason and one died after an unsuccessful shed. Am hoping to keep the others healthy and happy through the winter. All are Chinese mantises. Have one week crickets and hydei cultures going for them. Glad to see others love mantises too! Loved to see Susanna.


Sorry to hear about your recent mantis deaths. Molting can be problematic no matter the experience of care or setup, regrettably. Nice to hear though you are enjoy them, and even release them to take care of your garden. 

Thanks, Susanna was special for me being my first mantis. I was excited when her ooths started to hatch too, so I shared them with several people, and new generations from those live on too.


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## Wy Renegade (Feb 15, 2012)

diablomantis said:


> If you are keeping her inside and caring for her properly she can probably make it to January, it is difficult to say for certain, because I do not know when exactly she hatched. As CosbyArt said not many mantis species will reach one year in age, so don't expect her to last too much longer than December. I am in Indiana, and the temperatures are beginning to drop, so I don't expect to see any more mantids once mid October comes around.
> 
> European mantis are a usually green (sometimes brown), mid sized mantis, they always have black encircling yellow/white on there arms, this is how you can usually tell what species you have, because no other mantis species in North America has these eye spots. If you could post a picture of her I could identify the species, and I am sure CosbyArt could as well.


Thank you. We are keeping her inside in our sunroom, but she is free roaming in the room. There is water and insects available for her, and I have on a couple of occasions provided her with grasshoppers. Beyond that, is there anything I should be doing?





This one I think shows the circles you mentioned?




You can see the eyespots in this linked video of her eating as well. 

http://vid260.photobucket.com/albums/ii7/rowlandr/IMG_2798_zpsmmg1fojb.mp4

Thank you for your response.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

She is definitely a European Mantis, also definitely a female, good weight, she seems to be perfectly healthy. As far as feeding goes I would not feed her grasshoppers unless no other non-venomous food source is available, as they spit that tobacco juice which is meant to ward off predators, but long as you lightly mist her once a day and make sure she gets food then she will be fine. Also wild caught insects are not the best, as they may have eaten or come in contact with pesticides which can end up harming your mantis.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

One more thing I for got to add is, yes you are correct your 3rd picture shows the eye spots, the tell tale sign of a European Mantis.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

CosbyArt said:


> Indiana for me too, south of Bloomington in Bedford.
> 
> You are right about the recent temperatures. I collected 31 wild mantises Sep 12, then on Sep 27 I only found 6. It is amazing what lows in the 40's F does to the insect life. I'm hoping they are just hiding out in trees/thick bush to stay warm, and return when it warms back up over the weekend.


You are quite a bit south of me, I am in St.John. It might stay a little warmer down in Bedford.
You find many more mantids there then I do here, I never see more than 15 adults a year, and you find 31 in one day; you are lucky.
Yes, insects just can't take the cold, there are a few that do as the wood frog dose to survive winter, but most perish once the first frost comes as you said.


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## Wy Renegade (Feb 15, 2012)

diablomantis said:


> She is definitely a European Mantis, also definitely a female, good weight, she seems to be perfectly healthy. As far as feeding goes I would not feed her grasshoppers unless no other non-venomous food source is available, as they spit that tobacco juice which is meant to ward off predators, but long as you lightly mist her once a day and make sure she gets food then she will be fine. Also wild caught insects are not the best, as they may have eaten or come in contact with pesticides which can end up harming your mantis.


Thanks for the response. We own about 8 acres and use no pesticides on our property, so if I catch hopper nymphs that likely haven't flown in, should I be relatively safe? I will start the misting process -thanks for the advice.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Wy Renegade said:


> Thanks for the response. We own about 8 acres and use no pesticides on our property, so if I catch hopper nymphs that likely haven't flown in, should I be relatively safe? I will start the misting process -thanks for the advice.


Yes, that would be fine then, but I would still feed her crickets for the most part, but as long as they are pesticide free then grasshoppers would not be much of a problem.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Wy Renegade said:


> Thanks for the response. We own about 8 acres and use no pesticides on our property, so if I catch hopper nymphs that likely haven't flown in, should I be relatively safe? I will start the misting process -thanks for the advice.


Another thing I forgot to add again is, you can feed her a bit of honey as a treat, all mantids I have ever had love honey. Just take the container of honey and poke a toothpick into it and hold the toothpick in front of the mantids mandibles and she will most likely begin to eat it quickly.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Am loving the posts and photos! We have a zoo of creatures including scorpions, frogs, fish, lizards, birds, and mammals but this is our first up close and personal experience with mantids. Can't wait until spring to get new Ootheca! Am so hoping our three pet Chinese mantises will live longer...the largest just got wings. They are so friendly and seem to look at us with intelligence, just like our 18 yr old plecostomus who rolls his eyes at us and the pacific treefrogs who blink to us. We love spiders and would love to get a whip spider. Very year we watch the large orb weavers outside carefully and enjoy seeing how they flourish.


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## AzJohn (Aug 31, 2016)

Speaking of clutch size.........
Lasiodora parahybana is a great, huge awesome looking tarantula that has had reported clutch sizes of 2000 plus. They are easier to breed than a lot of other tarantulas so a lot of hobbyist start with then as a first breeding group. I never tried that species.....I know I'd have to cull large numbers of them or fill my house with baby tarantulas you can't even give away because everyone already has at least one. 

From my experience Euthlus species, especially ones from Chile are extremely durable. Many come from some of the harshest environments on Earth. They can go months without food or water, not that I would recommend trying. I once had one that was a captive born baby, .25 inches, Euthlus something-or-other kept in a one oz deli cup with some substrate. At the time I had several hundred baby tarantulas in one oz deli cups. This poor guy was knocked behind the dresser. I found it over a month later and thought for sure it would be dead. I was wrong the little guy was alive and kicking, all be it a little bit thirsty.


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## Josh B.A. (Aug 13, 2012)

Really cool mantis collection! The only terrestrial invertebrates I've kept are Damon diadema, after my brother had huge success in breeding them. They are remarkably hardy, even from when they were very small, as well as very long lived. 

I'd like to get into mantis breeding, although their lifespan is a bit discouraging. However, that makes for a good incentive to keep producing new generations!


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## Vinegaroonie (Jul 31, 2015)

Hello from another (former) mantid breeder! I kept quite a few before I got into darts and loved them, but ultimately quit because of their finicky lifespans. Keep at it, though! Every time I see a mantis I'm tempted to dive back in, but I have to resist... Probably won't last though! 

Have fun in the dart hobby!
-Niko


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CosbyArt (Feb 15, 2015)

AzJohn said:


> Speaking of clutch size.........
> Lasiodora parahybana is a great, huge awesome looking tarantula that has had reported clutch sizes of 2000 plus. They are easier to breed than a lot of other tarantulas so a lot of hobbyist start with then as a first breeding group. I never tried that species.....I know I'd have to cull large numbers of them or fill my house with baby tarantulas you can't even give away because everyone already has at least one.
> 
> From my experience Euthlus species, especially ones from Chile are extremely durable. Many come from some of the harshest environments on Earth. They can go months without food or water, not that I would recommend trying. I once had one that was a captive born baby, .25 inches, Euthlus something-or-other kept in a one oz deli cup with some substrate. At the time I had several hundred baby tarantulas in one oz deli cups. This poor guy was knocked behind the dresser. I found it over a month later and thought for sure it would be dead. I was wrong the little guy was alive and kicking, all be it a little bit thirsty.


Amazing story of the little baby living a month that way, glad you found it in time.  I will have to try the Euthlus for sure when I go shopping for one.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Ethical question. We have two captive raised mantises left. Both are males, Chinese mantises. There is a friendly mantis outside who always greets me when I water and mist the mint plant he lives on. All the rest of the tons of released mantises I let go are gone. Should I let nature take its course and leave him alone with winter approaching or put him in an indoor mantis mansion for the winter? It is getting colder outside and both course of actions seem wrong.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> Ethical question. We have two captive raised mantises left. Both are males, Chinese mantises. There is a friendly mantis outside who always greets me when I water and mist the mint plant he lives on. All the rest of the tons of released mantises I let go are gone. Should I let nature take its course and leave him alone with winter approaching or put him in an indoor mantis mansion for the winter? It is getting colder outside and both course of actions seem wrong.


I am not sure how long it stays above 50*F in California, but if it drops below 50* I would say bring them inside if you want to. You would not have to feel guilty about it, because at the point of the temperature going under 50* most of the mates for your males would be dead anyways, also mating season is over for most mantids.

How old is he?


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

It is getting below 50 most nights now here, into the lower 40s, in the hills inland on the central CA coast. I think he or she is about 3 months old. Will see tonight if he is still alive. I wish they had much longer lifespans. I look for him every night so hope he is still alive. The two in captivity though are iffy. One had a bad final shed and has funny looking wings, is very large. The other is much smaller but seems fine. I think both are males. Both hatched about three months ago. I released thousands from over a dozen eggs outside rob ably too late in the season. Will try to obtain eggs and release them much sooner next spring.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

If you can post a picture of them I can tell you if they are male or female (a picture of the head would be most useful).


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Will try to post photos this weekend if I can get my significant other to take photos. I thought the way to tell sex was by counting segments on the abdomen underside, seven for males and five for females? BTW when my mantis friend showed up outside tonight I gently picked him up and he is in a mantis mansion in the house near two others in mansions. I gave him smallish two week old crickets and drosophila hydei. He looks like he us already eating. Hope I am doing the right thing intervening. I do not see others outside anymore now that the weather is colder.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Just checked on the mantis I moved inside tonight. He seems a little freaked so I put more plant twigs and branches. He likes to hang down the side of the screen rather than upside down from the top of the screen so am wondering if the other two should also gave more branches and hiding places. I think I put too many small crickets and hydei in with him so put more cricket food in the bottom to draw them away from him. Hope I am not making a karmic and ethical error moving him inside. Am hoping the presence of the others nearby, in the same room, will make him happy too.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> I thought the way to tell sex was by counting segments on the abdomen underside, seven for males and five for females?


It is correct that you can count the segments, or if the mantis is an adult simply see if they have long antennas (male) or short antennas (female); but I now see in your other post that you think he or she is around 3 m.o., and I don't believe you can sex them (not easily at least) at that age.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> I gave him smallish two week old crickets and drosophila hydei. He looks like he us already eating. Hope I am doing the right thing intervening. I do not see others outside anymore now that the weather is colder.


My guess is he or she is probably l3-l4, so he or she can probably be eating ~1/2'' crickets without a problem, but only if she is at least l3; if she is l2 small crickets ~ 1/4'' should be fine, but only one or two at a time.

I wouldn't say you are doing the wrong thing, you are giving him a nice home for the rest of his life, instead of surviving till November at the longest. He will do good.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

He seems to be ok but I hate taking away his freedom and his usual routine. He is spending all his time hanging upside down from a screen rather than hiding in a plant and surfacing just at night. He is upside down rather than vertical although he can choose to be vertical too. I just want him to be happy. Life is too short for him.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> He seems to be ok but I hate taking away his freedom and his usual routine. He is spending all his time hanging upside down from a screen rather than hiding in a plant and surfacing just at night. He is upside down rather than vertical although he can choose to be vertical too. I just want him to be happy. Life is too short for him.


Almost all of the mantids I have ever had, other than the few ground mantis species I had, would almost exclusively hang upside down on the top of there enclosure, so I wouldn't worry about that. 
How large is he and how large is his enclosure?


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

The largest mantis is three inches and the two smaller ones are about two inches. I offered the largest mantis some honey a couple of times today and he seemed to really like that! His little mouth was working and he ate the tiny drops. He seems more energetic now. He is the oldest rattiest with wings that didn't shed quite right. He was starting to show some black next to the yellow spot between his front legs so I thought he should have a treat. I offered the honey to the smaller two including the mantis from outside but neither seemed too interested. The largest one is quite friendly and climbs on my hand when I get the piece of sponge to wet it from the bottom of the mesh cage. I hope he lasts a lot longer. I love mantises. They are friendly and seem intelligent in their way. His enclosure is a butterfly keeper about 10x12 inches, a cylinder. The smaller two are mantis mansions which are 10x10x10 inches I think. There are branches in each enclosure. Wish I had much bigger enclosures for them...a screened porch would be great! With a large aquarium, three small frog hospital tanks, two large frog tanks, two lizard tanks, and five smaller frog tanks, plus a small frog drip waterfall terrarium and scorpion tank, and a guinea pig cage and four aviaries, we are sort of running out of space. Plus we have five cats. What would be an ideal space for an adult Chinese mantis?


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> . What would be an ideal space for an adult Chinese mantis?


For the average adult Chinese mantis I would give an enclosure measuring at least 10x10x12, giving them larger enclosures won't heart though.

None of these are adults right?


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Not sure. One is much larger than the other two so may be an adult although he hatched out at about the same time as the smaller two. BTW he loves tiny drops of honey.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

The easiest way to tell weather you mantis is adult is by the wings, most American native species will have wings extending down there abdomen, if you aren't sure I can tell you if you can get pictures. Do you know how many times they have shed.

Good that they like the honey, I don't think I have ever had a mantis that could resist honey except for one male Cilnia Humeralis, don't know why he wouldn't eat it, but all his siblings loved honey as well.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Sadly lost one of my remaining three Chinese mantises today, an apparent female light green who never got larger than two inches. She was active and eating. I am very sad she us gone. Two are left, both apparent tan males. One has been inside since hatching and has weird wings from a bad molt, loves to crawl onto my hand, and begs for honey. The other was the one I brought inside who would come greet me every night when I misted his plant. Both are doing well but I am so afraid I will lose them. They are friendly, fun, and intelligent. Wish mantises lived a lot longer.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Was she an adult at that size? How long did she live for?
I have noticed with the odd colored mantids the life span is significantly shortened, sometimes not even making it to adulthood. For example Chinese mantis are usually mostly brown or Hierodula's are usually green, but when I get one that is opposite of the norm they never last as long as there normal colored siblings; and this happens with Gongylus Gongylodes as well, last year I was lucky enough to see a few of my males becoming green as they got older, but by the time they all hit L6 they died after shedding, why this happens to the odd colored mantids I do not know, but it is something that I have noticed. Also, don't get upset that she died, she lasted so much longer in captivity than she would have in the wild (if it is getting as cold by you as it is by me). You gave her a good, long, and happy life.

Cheers,
Vladimir.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Vladimir, she never shed to an adult with wings although she hatched about five months ago. The one I brought in from outside who was probably about the same age is twice as large and tan and has his wings. The one who sadly got weird wings during his last shed is tan and even larger and very friendly. He also is probably five months old. Curious if the ID colored ones don't do as well. The one who died was a Chinese mantis who was light green. Would love to learn about walking sticks too but think they are illegal here. Insects are amazingly personable and each one us a little different.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Sounds like she was Sub adult, so she did make it for a while. And as far as wings being deformed there is no need to worry, they do not need to fly since there are no mates around for them.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

We still have two pet Chinese mantises left, one with deformed wings and the other rescued from outside. Today the larger one with the deformed wings insisted on coming out on my hand and didn't want to go back. He dug his front legs into my hand, pinching me, to make his point, which he has never done before. We put a cat heating mat, barely warm, under the mantis containers which are now side by side. He licked honey off my hand. Don't know if he was adamant about getting more warmth or seeing the other mantis, although I think they are both males. Any idea why he would grab with his front legs and pinch and not let go? He has come out several times without acting that way. I am worried about them because I am away for the holidays and my s.o. is watching them. I didn't think 14 hours in a car would suit them. Does he want to be warmer? The room is probably 60-64 degrees. Is he wanting to mate? Is he tired of being caged?


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## papilio (Nov 6, 2016)

Do you sell mantids or have any suggestions on where to get them. Ive been wanting a ghost mantis for a while


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## Fishtank100 (Oct 16, 2016)

Nice to see other mantis owners on the site. I've been trying to breed my orchid mantis but she's killed 2 males I'm hoping IT happened before there untimely deaths!!


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Hope you see the putter patter of lots of feet in the spring.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> \He dug his front legs into my hand, pinching me, to make his point, which he has never done before. Any idea why he would grab with his front legs and pinch and not let go? He has come out several times without acting that way.


Mantids will do that some times, do you feed him directly or just throw food into his enclosure? Most of mine that don't eat flies/moths I feed with tweezers, and that eventually trains them to see anything put in front of them as food, so sometimes they will latch on to you because they think it is food. once they are out for a second and realize they are not being fed they usually act normal.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

cwebster said:


> We put a cat heating mat, barely warm, under the mantis containers which are now side by side. I am worried about them because I am away for the holidays and my s.o. is watching them. I didn't think 14 hours in a car would suit them. Does he want to be warmer? The room is probably 60-64 degrees. Is he wanting to mate? Is he tired of being caged?


Yes I agree, I don't think they would have enjoyed the car ride much. You don't have to worry about leaving them alone for very long, many of my females, of all species, if fed well they can then go a few weeks without needing to be fed again; I don't prefer to do this, but they can go a while without food if needed.
I would also try not to let the temperature get under 68*F for the most part, they can survive down to 60*, but they would do better in warmer conditions, it would allow them to metabolize more efficiently.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Am not back home yet. Mantis sitter said he ate honey a few times today. Usually I just put crickets and fruit flies in directly. Am so hoping the two will be ok in a few days when I get home. Can't believe how strongly he could pinch! But I love him anyway.  he seems intelligent.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Just got a small heater for the bathroom where the mantises live. It isabout 70 but going up. What is the max temp for them? Don't want to fry them.thanks.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Chinese mantids would be most comfortable in temperatures of 75* during the day and 65* at night, on average. If you want them to live longer you can keep the temperature at 72* during the day and 62* at night, as this will slow there metabolism and allow them to live a bit longer. 
Also if you are a couple degrees off it is not a big deal, as Chinese mantids can live in temperatures down to 50* or above 100* before perishing.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Will position the heater to try for those temperatures. Do they benefit from extra water if it is warmer in the room? They are more active, warmer. Just want them to stay healthy and happy and live as long as possible. They are very personable.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

You don't have to, a Chinese mantis is not going to mind getting sprayed just once a day. Even my Deroplatys Dessicatas I only spray once a day, and they are kept at 85*.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Honey Mantis and Minty Mantis look much happier now.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Good, I am glad they are happy.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Here is Honey Mantis visiting. He loves to come out. But he is getting kind of frail.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

You can see that Honey 's wings didn't come out right in his last molt. But he loves honey.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

He looks good, other than the wings of course, but at least it seems the wings are not hindering his movement. A lot of the older mantids start to break there antennas but his are intact, that shows you provide them with a large enclosure.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Am concerned though because he is falling to the bottom of the enclosure a lot. He is in a soft screen butterfly keeper. He seems to be eating and drinking but looks like a 90 year old man.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

He might be on his way out then, but he does look really good for his age. He is also very old for a male Chinese mantis, rarely when kept in captivity will a once wild female make it to almost December, but a male making it that long is very surprising. If he is eating and drinking there is no more you can do, but is he is eating and drinking well that is a sign he is comfortable.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Honey mantis would not touch honey last night or this morning so am concerned about him. Also offered him a two week cricket by hand and drops of water but he refused them. He keeps waving a back leg. Am hoping for the best but know he us very old. Am afraid to go to work. It would be like losing a friend. Held him this morning but he us not too energetic. Minty mantis seems ok but looks younger. He was the one living in a mint plant outside until it got very cold and I brought him inside.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Sadly I think Honey Mantis is dying. He is clinging to the mesh at the bottom of his enclosure and won't let go or eat honey or sip a tiny drop of water. I will miss him terribly as he is an intelligent friendly smart creature. I hope he is not suffering.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Like I said in my previous post it is very rare for a female to live this long, but a male I would not expect to live much past October, so you gave him a good VERY long life, for a male. I don't think he is suffering, invertebrates cannot feel pain luckily.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Thank you. I tried. Tonight i gave him a drop of water and also tried a drop of honey but he is just lethargic, sitting on the floor of his cage, and not moving his mouth. His eyes are still bright green and clear. I wish they lived longer. Such wonderful creatures. Minty mantis still seems ok.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

RIP Honey Mantis. Miss him.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

He had a good long life, much longer than if he was left outside.


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## Railrider1920 (Nov 12, 2016)

Hey Folks,
I found this one on my screened in porch in NW Fla panhandle. I was told by a mantis owner that it is a grizzled mantis. Kind of freaky looking. Just thought that someone following this thread might like to see it.










www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/31359795541/in/dateposted-public/

Photobucket won't let me sign in for some reason so I had to open a flickr account and put it up there. I can't figure out how to make it show up so you'll have to click the link.
Rob


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

That is correct a Florida Grizzled mantis (Gonatista Grisea) it is they are very difficult to spot with that camouflage.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Very cool mantis! I didn't know they even existed.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

If you think those are cool take a look at the Toxodera species.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

The image wont work, but look them up they are very cool.

Cheers,
Vladimir.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Found this fun link and am looking up toxodera
Praying Mantis
Here is a toxodera mantis
https://www.google.com/search?q=tox...UIBygB&biw=1024&bih=704#imgrc=90L_BIW4aBfk6M:
I can see that more mantids will have to come our way. People want to meet aliens. They are all around us and wonderful. BTW Minty Mantis is still doing well.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Minty mantis is doing well. He has a space heater in his room. Am so hoping he will overwinter. He looks very adult now but not old.


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Good, hopefully he will keep going.


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## Dartfish (Dec 16, 2016)

I currently have a trio of ghost mantids, have you ever noticed a skewed sex ratio in certain species? I got 3 random nymphs of acromantis formosana year or 2 ago and all were female same thing with some psuedocreobroter walbhergii


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Dartfish said:


> I currently have a trio of ghost mantids, have you ever noticed a skewed sex ratio in certain species? I got 3 random nymphs of acromantis formosana year or 2 ago and all were female same thing with some psuedocreobroter walbhergii


I cant say I have, out of the literal thousands of mantids I have had I would say its almost always 50-50 if not maybe 45-55. But the first time I tried orchid mantids I ended up with 2.5, but once the Oothecas hatched and I raised them up I go 12.10. The first few times I had Ghosts I only ordered one at a time and they did all end up being males, but if you get yourself a few you can usually expect a pair; for the most part I will order 6 nymphs if they are only L2-3, and not a difficult species.


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## Dartfish (Dec 16, 2016)

Oh ok, i used to have more species like both of the native stick mimic species i think brunneri borealis which is a parthanogenetic species of only females,thesporita graminis,popa spurca and carolina mantids


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## Dartfish (Dec 16, 2016)

The thesporita graminis females were really hard to find and ate males like clockwork


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Dartfish said:


> The thesporita graminis females were really hard to find and ate males like clockwork


That's why I gave up on them. I had them years ago, and like you said, they just kept on eating the males no matter how heavily I would feed them before attempting to mate them.


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## Dartfish (Dec 16, 2016)

My biggest problem with them was raising the nymphs as they were too small for the larger fruitflies i had and only thing they ate was eachother and the smallest of the maggots from the fruitfly culture.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Minty Mantis molted and his wings are sticking out crumpled and one rear leg is at the wrong angle. He is upside down again on the screen top of the mantis mansion but I feel bad for him. I put a dish of water a few minutes ago near his heater about a foot from his cage and lightly misted his cage after I noticed he had a mismolt. Is there anything else I can do to help him?


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## diablomantis (Jan 29, 2016)

Unfortunately that's all you can do, luckily if he is hanging on the screen that makes me think he is able to walk so that is good, and he wont be needing his wings, and as long as his raptorial arms are working it really isn't anything to worry about.

Cheers,
Vladimir.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Minty is hanging in there but seems old and frail. His wings have turned black. Have not seen him eat so gave him honey.


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