# question on tadpole set up



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Do any of you have a tadpole set up where the tads are in their own individual containers but share the same water? Do you have a problem with the growth inhibiting hormone that is given off by some tads affecting the growth of the other tads?

This is my idea for a tadpole set up. It will be a large sterilite tub filled with water. In the bottom will be a heater, air driven sponge filter and a small water pump. The tads will be in individual containers on a platform at the surface of the water. My idea is then to continually pump a very small steady stream of water to each individual tad container. Excess water from the tad containers will fall back into the main body of water to be filtered and eventually pumped back to the tad containers. Once or twice a week I'll change the water in the main container.

There will be different species of tads in the set up - for now azureus, gl lamasi, imitators.

My concern is that if some of the tads release the growth inhibiting hormone it will eventually get into all the tad containers. Should that be a concern?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

i could sell you a system like that cheap!
i had problems w/ that system but i had so many different types of tads. i think the auratus were the worst w/ hormone inhibitors. some people have better luck than i using this type of system. i never figured out which ones didn`t fit into the system. i used to be able to raise them together when i changed the water every other day. you`ll have to try it and see if it works w/ your tads. some report success w/ a system like that, others don`t.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Thanks Aaron.

I'll probably hold off doing anything till we visit your place in a few weeks. I'm sure I'll get a few more ideas


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

That method has never worked for me either. I always had problems consistantly morphing out large healthy tads when I had different varieties sharing the same water. Now I use individual 2.5 gal tanks with UG filters driven by one air pump. I raise one clutch per tank and after they morph out I do a 100% water change before the next clutch of tads are added. Since I began keeping the various species completely separate from eachother the tads grow faster and develop much healthier in to lrg 3/4" froglets.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Thanks for the info Paul.

I've thought about what you're doing as well only with sponge filters rather than underground filters. You don't have any problem with cannibalism keeping more than one tad per tank?


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

Not at all...as long as they are all from the same clutch of eggs they all grow at the same rate. Sure they may nip at each other every now and then but as long as I throw plenty of food in there every day or at least every other day they do just fine. Keep lots of small snails in with them to clean up any uneaten food.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

OK, thanks Paul.


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

I thought about using the sponge filters myself but I got a better deal on the bulk Penn Plax Undergravel filters. Like 3$ each give or take a few cents. I also think the Under Gravels give me better water flow as opposed to the sponge filters for faster ammonia/nitrite breakdown.

Regardless, having the individual filters in each tank has brought my water changing efforts waaaayyy down. maybe 20-50% once every 2 weeks.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Do I understand you correctly? You don't do any water changes till the tads morph out and you're setting up for the next batch of tads?

Is that java moss in the tanks as well? My idea was also to let the tanks get full of algae and then place a large clump of java moss in there as well.


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

wow thats a nice tad setup paul


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

NO NO....lol....I do partial water changes every 10-14 days or so, and then I change 100% of the water after that batch of tads morphs out so there is no residual hormones left over that may affect the next batch of tads.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

PAULSCHUMANN said:


> NO NO....lol....I do partial water changes every 10-14 days or so, and then I change 100% of the water after that batch of tads morphs out so there is no residual hormones left over that may affect the next batch of tads.


OK....................got it


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

great info for communal tad rearing. I dont know much about filters, would you care to explain a little? Are the supplies as simple as a 2.5 gallon tank, UG filter, air pump, gravel? no need for carbon filters or anything else? How exactly do they work. how and how much are you draining the tanks ect.


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

I drew a realy realy crude diagram to help understand the process. The carbon filters only work for chemical filtration, removing some heavy metals and even some beneficial minerals and nutrients, but on an undergravel filter they just seem to hinder water flow by as much as 90% and carbon is hardly efficient at all unless there is ample water flow directly through it, so I opted for better water flow which increases the efficiency of the biological filtration (the breaking down of tad poo from harmfull ammonia to a much less toxic nitrate)

The air bubbles rising through the lift tube creates a current of oxygenated water which travels down through the gravel bed and back up the tube into the tank, turning the increased surface area of the gravel into a perfect habitat for nitrifying bacteria. The bacteria grows all over the surfaces of the gravel consuming the ammonia (tad poo) as it is drawn through the gravel from the current created by the under gravel system.

The first type of bacteria eats Ammonia and that bacteria turns it into Nitrite, another bacteria eats the Nitrite turning it into Nitrate. As the Nitrate levels build in the tank water changes are done to keep nitrates at a non toxic level. Nitrates are turned into nitrogen gas by Anerobic bacteria (a bacteria which thrives in non oxygenated habitat) This bacteria is very hard to grow in a small well oxygenated system and is not nearly as efficient at breaking down nitrate as the other bacteria are at breaking down ammonia and nitrite. This is one of the main reasons water changes are done (in fish tanks and tadpole tanks) to reduce the nitrate levels before they become too concentraded. 

In cups or other tad systems without a biological filtration the water changes must be done much more frequently because there is nothing to break down the ammonia, and ammonia is much much more toxic than nitrate.


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

wow! thats exactly what I needed, pics are always a plus for me :lol: I really appreciate the time and effort you put into your responses. Thanks Paul


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Nice looking setup, Paul.

What species have you successfully raised with this system?

Have you noticed if any particular species does consistently better/worse than others?


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

I use this setup for tincs, auratus and such. I keep thumbnails in individual cups.


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## lana (Jul 12, 2006)

that looks like a great setup and one i think ill try,but what do you do when its time for them to morph out.also are those tanks kept full thanks for your in depth descriptions


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

yes, they are kept full all the time. a day or two after the tads pop their front legs I move them to a ten gallon froglet viv with a shallow water feature so they can morph out at their leisure.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

PAULSCHUMANN said:


> I keep thumbnails in individual cups.


Paul, why is that? I just ordered the supplies to set up similar tanks with sponge filters. Initially I'll be using it for my azureus eggs. But I was also hoping to use it for my imi & gl lamasi when they start laying.


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

Well I guess I have never tried raising thumbs communally because I have always been told they are really cannibalistic and horrible with growth inhibiting hormones. Now that I think long and hard about it I might just give it a wirl and see what I come up with...


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

When the frogs get their front legs and go into the ten gallon do you mix the clutches then? How do you filter that system? THanks


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

Yes, I mix em all up into general 10 gal froglet tanks after the front legs pop. The ten gallons are unfiltered, other than overflow thru the drains from misting and from whatever the plants and moss absorb.


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