# Worm ID



## ChrisK

I saw these 2 in the escudo tank about a half inch long, a little scary after looking at the large pic and seeing that one attacking the ff. Anything to worry about?


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## zBrinks

Looks like what I've heard call a proboscis worm. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Ed

Nemertean,.. 

They will capture and eat flies and are pretty much death on any attempts to seed enclosures with springtails. 

Ed


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## ChrisK

Dammit! If I take out the ones I find, so they reproduce too quickly to keep up?


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## Ed

ChrisK said:


> Dammit! If I take out the ones I find, so they reproduce too quickly to keep up?


Most of the population is going to be in the substrate so pulling out what you see can reduce the population but probably not significantly. I haven't heard of a good method to deal with them yet if they are allready in the cage. 

Ed


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## ChrisK

What a pain, I wonder how they got in there


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## Brien

Dry ice will hopefully get them out that sucks


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## Ed

ChrisK said:


> What a pain, I wonder how they got in there


contaminated plants or soil usually. 

Ed


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## ChrisK

Yeah I can see now they're all on the tree fern bg and they stretch out really long, didn't introduce anything new lately though. Can they freely go from tank to tank, and do they eat eggs?


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## frogparty

I have those in one of my vivs. They don't eat frog eggs,but they do eat every bug in the enclosure smaller than themselves. Dry ice didn't work worth a damn for me tryingto get rid of them. Need total tear down if you want to be really successful. 
I've alwas called them proboscis nemerteans. On the plus side, they ate all the baby slugs in the same viv. Now my orchids in there bloom and don'tt get munched.


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## hexentanz

ChrisK said:


> Yeah I can see now they're all on the tree fern bg and they stretch out really long, didn't introduce anything new lately though. Can they freely go from tank to tank, and do they eat eggs?


Yea they love tree fern panels.


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## Ed

ChrisK said:


> Yeah I can see now they're all on the tree fern bg and they stretch out really long, didn't introduce anything new lately though. Can they freely go from tank to tank, and do they eat eggs?


Only if there is a moist pathway between tanks or if you transfer materials between tanks on purpose, or on your hands or other implements. 

Ed


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## jeffr

ChrisK said:


> What a pain, I wonder how they got in there


This is what I have in 2 of my tanks. And no I didn't bring them over with me


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## ChrisK

jeffr said:


> This is what I have in 2 of my tanks. And no I didn't bring them over with me


They in the basti tank? Maybe that's why you don't see springtails in there


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## jeffr

ChrisK said:


> They in the basti tank? Maybe that's why you don't see springtails in there


No, my Yellow Galacts and my Leucs. When I set those tanks up I did them both at the same time, bought plants from the same store, etc... I figured they came in on the plants

They don't eat eggs since My Galacts lay right on the leaf litter


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## Mitch

Just wondering... why don't the frogs eat them? They look like a tasty treat to me.


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## jeffr

they're too big


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## jkooiman

Will treefrogs and tincs take these damn things out? Are they so distasteful that nothing will eat them? They appeared in one of my tanks and I'm contemplating a little "mongoose" action, maybe some baby vampire crabs would work? I can't handle these nasty little nightmare creatures. They make my skin crawl. Thanks, JVK


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## fieldnstream

Looks like the viv version of Tremors!


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## Ed

jkooiman said:


> Will treefrogs and tincs take these damn things out? Are they so distasteful that nothing will eat them? They appeared in one of my tanks and I'm contemplating a little "mongoose" action, maybe some baby vampire crabs would work? I can't handle these nasty little nightmare creatures. They make my skin crawl. Thanks, JVK


I know people that have these in thier tinct cages and they don't seem to pay them much attention. I haven't spoken to anyone about whether thier treefrogs would take them. 

I haven't heard of anyone trying vampire crabs yet but keep in mind that they feed on any microfauna they can subdue. 

Ed


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## jkooiman

Ed said:


> I know people that have these in thier tinct cages and they don't seem to pay them much attention. I haven't spoken to anyone about whether thier treefrogs would take them.
> 
> I haven't heard of anyone trying vampire crabs yet but keep in mind that they feed on any microfauna they can subdue.
> 
> Ed


I'm thinking perhaps one of the higher humidity treefrog species might pick them off the glass as they so brazenly writhe about like a blindman in search of food.
Vampire younglings may do some damage to the nemertian populace in the substrate, I haven't any fears who will win in the end. In fact, I think the young vampires would relish a nemertian or twenty.What I'm really wondering if they possess skin toxin/mucous that could potentially make them unpalatable.

I hate these creatures, i have a maggot/parasite phobia, and these worms damn near send me into convulsions...JVK


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## froggymike

Have had them before but they do not bother the frogs. Only in one tank. Try to bleach plants before puting them in your tank. I have been making this a standard practice now.


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## Ed

jkooiman said:


> I'm thinking perhaps one of the higher humidity treefrog species might pick them off the glass as they so brazenly writhe about like a blindman in search of food.
> Vampire younglings may do some damage to the nemertian populace in the substrate, I haven't any fears who will win in the end. In fact, I think the young vampires would relish a nemertian or twenty.What I'm really wondering if they possess skin toxin/mucous that could potentially make them unpalatable.
> 
> I hate these creatures, i have a maggot/parasite phobia, and these worms damn near send me into convulsions...JVK


There have been some really serious attempts at wiping them out of tanks with little or no luck, except for stripping down the tank and discarding everything that cannot be sterilized. See for example AJC's description here AJCs Virtual Frogroom: April 2008. *CO2 does not remove them from the tank... *

The problem with trying a more macropredator on them, is thier rate of reproduction seems to be high and sustained in the enclosures. 

My real issue with the pests is that they are murder on any attempts to feed or establish microfauna (they will eat appropriate sized isopods, springtails, fruitflies and any other small invert they can overpower so each time you feed the frogs you are going to feed the nemerteans....


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## tim13

I know co2 does nothing to these guys. But what about taking away their food source? Could you in theory pull out the frogs, co2 the microfauna, and just let the tank sit while misting to keep plants alive. No food = no nemerteans right? This strategy along with daily removal of all the obvious ones in the tank over a period of time would be minimally invasive to the viv, and possibly get rid of the problem. Also possibly set vinegar/soap traps in the viv during this time, they may not be attracted to the vinegar, but as much as they move around I bet some would get in it. Also, with no frogs in the viv, you could add an undertank heater and heat up the substrate, possibly driving them upwards away from the heat source, causing them to get on the glass where you can remove them better. I feel a multifront attack would work on these guys, take some time and dedication though.


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## goatdude

tim13 said:


> I know co2 does nothing to these guys. But what about taking away their food source? Could you in theory pull out the frogs, co2 the microfauna, and just let the tank sit while misting to keep plants alive. No food = no nemerteans right? This strategy along with daily removal of all the obvious ones in the tank over a period of time would be minimally invasive to the viv, and possibly get rid of the problem. Also possibly set vinegar/soap traps in the viv during this time, they may not be attracted to the vinegar, but as much as they move around I bet some would get in it. Also, with no frogs in the viv, you could add an undertank heater and heat up the substrate, possibly driving them upwards away from the heat source, causing them to get on the glass where you can remove them better. I feel a multifront attack would work on these guys, take some time and dedication though.


dam man all your missing is the bad music.. hate to be them


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## Ed

tim13 said:


> I know co2 does nothing to these guys. But what about taking away their food source? Could you in theory pull out the frogs, co2 the microfauna, and just let the tank sit while misting to keep plants alive. No food = no nemerteans right? This strategy along with daily removal of all the obvious ones in the tank over a period of time would be minimally invasive to the viv, and possibly get rid of the problem. Also possibly set vinegar/soap traps in the viv during this time, they may not be attracted to the vinegar, but as much as they move around I bet some would get in it. Also, with no frogs in the viv, you could add an undertank heater and heat up the substrate, possibly driving them upwards away from the heat source, causing them to get on the glass where you can remove them better. I feel a multifront attack would work on these guys, take some time and dedication though.


 
This could take months.. literally and probably not solve the issue. The CO2 levels would have to wipe out all of the other microfauna and this is unlikely and the nemerteans can also feed on other nematodes which are also unlikely to be affected by the CO2 treatment, which means they still have a suitable food source. Some nemerteans have been shown to live more than a week under severe anaerobic conditions.


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## earthfrog

Ideas:

If you have an established isopod population in the tank, they should help keep them in check by possibly eating their eggs.

Provided there is good airflow, the nemerteans do not have the above ground advantage as much. They head back underground when they are deprived of higher humidity on the glass and such. 

A product known as Employ Hort and Turf is a plant stimulant made from an Ecoli protein (containing no live bacteria) and has been shown to slow the production of plant-harming nematode eggs. This may work for nemerteans as well, possibly either affecting their growth or depriving them of egg-laying sites, not sure on this. 
I have applied this product to my plants in the grow tank and seen that it has strengthened them. 

On the upside, I had previously seen a bloom of nemerteans in my quarantine tank, and a few weeks after having all of the above conditions in that tank, I maybe see one per week in the tank.


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## Mitch

Funny that I posted in this a while ago... now I have them in my leuc viv. No clue where the heck they came from but ever since I saw the first one I haven't seen a single spring or Iso anywhere . Now I feed springs once a week but besides that there isn't much microfauna for the frogs to munch on.


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## Ed

Yes, they will feed on any isopods small enough to subdue.. they don't have to swallow the invertebrate as invertebrates too large to swallow have thier softer body parts sucked out... 

They can be transfered via soil, plants, wood, stones... 

Ed


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## jkooiman

Woke up to another hydei massacre this morning, their poor little corpses litter the glass, what a way to go  

They are incredibly efficient predators, with an appetite! JVK


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## ChrisK

Strangely my dwarf temperate isopods in that pictured escudo tank do great, I only seeded them once a year ago and there's a tremendous amount in there - I actually see the nemerteans pass them by and not bother them


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## Ed

That could be due to not being as nice a prey species as other available prey species... 

Ed


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## tim13

Are nemerteans really smart enough to distinguish the difference Ed?


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## Ed

Smart doesn't cover it.. they hunt prey at a distance through the use of chemotactics.. and only use thier eyes up close to target the prey for the penetration of the stylet. Since they use chemotactics, they can discriminate between high quality and low quality prey items. 

Ed


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## Afemoralis

For those thinking about trying to use Geosesarma as a way to remove these from your tanks:

Adventures in Spineless Science!: Assassin Worm

This creature has relatives that are more "vampire" than your crabs ever will be!

-Afemoralis


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## Reef_Haven

Too bad they are cute and colorful, with a sexy call!


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## Detrick105

I use to never have nemerteans, until I started using New Zealand Sphagnum Moss. Once I did a few tanks using that moss, nemerteans showed up. Fellow froggers that I know of, have reported having nemerteans showing up in there tanks as well, after using New Zealand Moss (compressed bricks). One way of dealing with nemerteans in moss is to nuke it in the mircowave or boil it. Just thought I'd add my two cents.
Steve


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## Ed

I use the New Zealand compressed moss and have not had any problems with them. 

I just did a quick scan through the literature using google scholar and was unable to find any information that shows they tolerate dessication or have a dorment resistent stage (but as there is lack of information this doesn't mean it is true). 

Ed


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## ChrisK

Crazy idea, just looking for SOME good thing about these inglorious basterds - would they possibly eat hookworms and their eggs in the substrate?


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## Brien

I have these in my Blue Jean tank and they have been in their for awhile now but my Blue Jeans do eat the ones that are very small. I went a month without feeding them and their bellies was still as round as a penny. I cant seem to get them to lose weight


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## jkooiman

Well, I introduced two young Geosesarma "Red" to the nemertean tank yesterday, we'll see what happens. JVK


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## wesleybrouwer

Check this link.

Nemerteans - Gifkikkerportaal - Forum - Weblogs - Michael Baele

Most is in Dutch tho, but google translate might do the trick.


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