# Has anyone ever tried dusting with clay?



## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

The clay based substrate threads show evidence that frogs have become healthier after introducing clay into their environment. Apparently small organisms crawl through the substrate and particles of clay stick to them. Then frogs eat the organisms and gain some nutrients from the clay soil that is on the critters. So I was curious if you could dust ff with fine clay particles. Could this serve the same purpose. If so how often to dust and what type of clay? I've tried dusting personally with calcium montmorillonite once a month. Not sure if its helping or hurting since I vary between many supplements.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I would have some concerns about dusting with dry bentonite based clays as they can significantly change in volume when exposed to moisture... 
In addition, I have doubts that it will supply a better source of calcium than dusting with say calcium citrate. 
The reason the clay substrates are beneficial is that the frogs not only can ingest calcium incidentally when capturing prey items but they can also uptake calcium ions through thier skin if there is a need. That is what a calcium rich substrate provides that a dusting regimen does not... As the frogs can regulate the amount of calcium they uptake through thier skin, there isn't a chance of overdoing calcium and it significantly reduces the risk of insufficient calcium... 

It also gets away from the higher levels of microfauna that can establish themselves in a clay based substrate... 

Ed


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. Im currently working with clay/organic mixtures, but was just curious about a more direct approach. Interesting to hear about how clay expands. I could see that leading to several problems.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've been trying different comopositions and usages for years now (6 years) including some really heavy stress testing on how some of the mixes recovers.. 

Ed


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Ed said:


> I've been trying different comopositions and usages for years now (6 years) including some really heavy stress testing on how some of the mixes recovers..
> 
> Ed


I know this is kind of a broad question, but how are your results? What has worked best for you so far? I have been using a mixture of clay bentonite, red art, and calcium montmorillonite. They range in particle sizes of fine dust to 75mm diameters. In that I mix in a heavy coir base with some peat. Where I plant I add in a bit of ABG mix. Just started so hoping to see results in about 3 months.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Well.. I've used it in a number of different applications.. ranging from a drip wall to substrates to sealing crevices where treefern fiber was bonded to the sides of the tank, to attaching light weight items to the back of tanks (as part of the drip wall).. mainly I'm stress testing different formulations to see what works best under a wide range of applications. I also set up some ABG based enclosures as well as enclosures with infield conditioner as comparisions... 
Under a system with a higher level of microfauna and a daily misting system, it has only taken about 3 years for the ABG mix to pretty much disappear from the tank exposing the drainage layer in multiple areas. Whereas the clay system set up at the same time have accrued organic layers under the same conditions.. (and would accumulate more if I put more leaves into the system). 

I've also simulated droughts in some systems (no animals only plants) and allowed the enclosures to dry out over a period of 6 months and then rewet them to see the effects on the plants and microfauna. 

Right now, I tend to set up tanks with a false bottom that creates at least a half inch of air space between the bottom of the false bottom and the top of the water layer under the false bottom. This allows for a better drainage that is much closer to that in natural soils. On top of the false bottom I place a very thin layer of infield conditioner and then a thin layer of red art clay, mixed with calcium bentonite (about 75/25) which has been allowed to dry, broken up, rewet and pushed through a screen, and then allowed to partially dry before being put into the tank. Over this I place a layer of the above mixture that is mixed between 60/40 and 70/30 clay mixture (which has been processed as above) and organic (peat, sphagnum, broken up dry leaves, and/or eco-earth (coco peat). I also try to sculpt some of the straight clay layer up to the surface to give the frogs direct access to it. 
If the drainage is decent, then you can root bromeliads right into the bottom but if you don't process the clay so it will drain well they will rot... 

Ed


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

Hey Ed,

Where do you buy infield conditioner? I'm having a hell of a time finding it... Have you made any tanks using just infield conditioner as a substrate?


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## Ulisesfrb (Dec 8, 2008)

npaull said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Where do you buy infield conditioner? I'm having a hell of a time finding it... Have you made any tanks using just infield conditioner as a substrate?


I was wondering the same thing. Could the infield conditioner be used as the sole substrate just like flourite?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

npaull said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Where do you buy infield conditioner? I'm having a hell of a time finding it... Have you made any tanks using just infield conditioner as a substrate?


There are a couple of brands out there and checking them for the nearest distributor is one method or you can get it shipped to you as well. I have a John Deere landscaping outlet near me and the carry it. I'm going to have to get some more soon as I need to pot up some bromeliads and it works well as growing medium for them. (I currently have a group of Vresia erythrodactylum small form potted in it for the last 5-6 months) and I want to try some different drainage layers inbetween the organic/clay areas. 

I have a couple of tanks where the sole bottoms is the conditioner with only leaf litter over it and it works fine. Bromeliads root right into it as it is moist but not wet and drains quickly. 

Ed


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

Ulisesfrb said:


> I was wondering the same thing. Could the infield conditioner be used as the sole substrate just like flourite?


Turface is one such product. It is used for base ball parks to promote drainage so that the field doesn't become a muddy mess during rain. It is also used in Bonsai plantings. Most are fired clay type products that are like Leca but are crushed into small soil like particles.

Turface

There are cheaper versions, but I'm having a brain fritz as to the names.

I'm pretty sure that Home Depot has some version, and most plant nurseries will carry something.

And to answer your question, yes can be used solely as a soil substitute.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Its way cheaper to buy it in the big bags (it can be about $15-20 for a 50lb bag) than it is to buy repackaged materials. The nice thing about the conditioner is that it isn't fired until it is like leca.. a percent of it will decompose slowly over time which gives a wide particle size and is closer to some soil types. 

Go to Turface and use the dealer search or do a search for infield conditioner and choose a brand and use the find local dealer option to get a place close to you. I think with the Turface you can also get it delivered if ordered from some of the online sources. 

Ed


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