# Froglet-Juvi-SubAdult-Adult classifications



## joshua_delancey69 (Mar 1, 2004)

I have been talking with people and I was wondering what others thought. 


For me a Froglet is 1-5 months
a juvie is 6-10 months
and an adult would be 10+ months 

I have had someone tell me they had juvies for trade and they were 2 weeks old. so just putting out to see what other thought of age ranges......


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Works for me... I've seen the 5 demarcated at 4 before though (with an adjustment to subadult obviously).

But I think you're on the mark.

It would be nice to all use the same terms, eh?

s


----------



## AZDR_A (Mar 20, 2004)

I classify as follows:

Froglet: until 2 months old

Juvi: 2 months to 6 months

Subadult:6 + months (sometime sexable)

Adult: Sexable and mature


----------



## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

To me, it would depends on the species of frog. For example, the frogs that tend to breed at a much earlier age would be classifed differently than others. (i.e. azureus vs. imitator). I would say a frog that has reached typical/general breeding age is an adult and one that has not would still be a juvenile. As an example, I would classify imitator like this:

Froglet 0-2 months
Juvi 3-5 months
Adult 5+ months

Like Amanda pointed out, there is also a place in there for the frogs that take longer to mature to be classifed as "sub-adults". 

Kristen


----------



## joshua_delancey69 (Mar 1, 2004)

I agree with all the above posted but a froglet of 2 months is hard for me to even consider a juvie.....unless its a thumbnail.


and what about frogs that take forever to mature like Terriblis Species. Can you say they are juvies at 2 months old?


----------



## AZDR_A (Mar 20, 2004)

Good points Kristen and Josh! What I posted I guess would be more related to tincs, leucs, auratus.......

Thumbs are a totally different aspect. Most of them morph out half the size of an adult and are mature a lot quicker than the average dart.

Why can't you clasify a 2month old as a juvi Josh? I think there is a big difference in a froglet (frog that just morphed out) and a frog that's 2 months old. Honestly I usually stop using the word froglet around 4-5 weeks, but we'll say 2 months to be safe here. But that's my opinion. 

It would be nice if everyone was on the same page, so would a lot of other things!!!! It's just up to the buyer to clarify what they are getting and to the seller to state acuratley what they are selling.


----------



## twisner (Jul 7, 2005)

Why dont we all just say how many weeks the frogs are, and use our own personal opinions on the individual species to determine what classification we think they are.


----------



## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

I think size should be included here as well meaning that along with the age in months to classify a frog as mentioned above so should a measurement. For standard size frogs like tinc's, auratus, galacs etc. froglets should be between 1/2" and 3/4" and 2-4 months old, juvi's are 4 to 8 months and are a full 3/4" to 1 and 1/4". Sub-adults are 8+ months and are 1 and 1/4"+ to full size where they are then called adults. 
Sizes and dated should be compressed or expanded depending on a particular species. 
As for thumbs, Kristen's scale looks great. No need to size these little guys in millimeters


----------



## Ed Martin (Mar 25, 2004)

It is kind of tough to make generalizations, but I take a more conservative approach along the lines of Tim’s recommendations. My classifications are based on time out of the water rather than size, simply because of size variation within a species i.e. patricias VS citronellas. 

I had similar experiences to Josh when someone was offering “juvies” that were 1 & 3 weeks out of the water. I have also seen someone offering 6-10 month old terribilis as adult frogs. In both cases I felt that the person was misrepresenting the animals they were offering. 

I do not think that we will ever get to get to a standard, but it would be nice! I have started to steer clear of these terms when discussing the sale or trade of frogs and either state or ask how many months they have been out of the water. 

Ed


----------



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

*frog ages*

Selling a frog that is less than 5-6 weeks old should be highly discouraged, under this age really puts a lot of stress on the animal. I would say 6-10 weeks would be a froglet (and yes i agree thumbs and larger species are different), 2.5 -5 or 6 months would be a juvi and beyond that subadult. I applaud those breeders that do not sell frogs under 3 months of age, Saurian comes to mind here as i know all Pats frogs are well beyond the critical froglet stages when he sells them.


----------



## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I tend to use size as the measure.

Froglets: anything < 1/2 adult size

Juvis: anything 1/2 adult size to near adult size

Subadult: Adult size but not breeding ready

Time not a critical factor in the above categories. Of course this is as subjective as some other systems and requires a knowledge of the adult size of animals. 

Bill


----------



## joshua_delancey69 (Mar 1, 2004)

Outstanding conversation guys this was really what i was looking for. 

Amanda, I can see calling a juvie 2 months but to me as others have stated i feel that they are in a critical stage from 0-3 I normally dont sell any frogs that are under 2 months old..........I just feel bad because in my experence thats the range i have lost most of what i have purchased is frogs that are 1-2 months old. I dont disagree with you at all and totally see your point so no disagreements here just wanted to see others classifications. I think going totally to a weeks/month method would be outstandding but agian you have people that dont keep track of this either. 

On Ed's topic Thats what i was getting at i got 2 month old terriblis one time that were classified as Juvies. so that why i brought that up. 

On the otherhand it would really be nice to find some common ground in the classifications.


----------



## AZDR_A (Mar 20, 2004)

Josh, I didn't understand where you were going with that. So you are avoiding using under 3 months as a froglet, so more people won't sell them that young. I totally agree. We wait to sell most frogs until they are 4 months and at least an inch (except thumbs :wink: ) . I agree that they are just too small then to sell.

You also have to consider, that there are a lot of different ways of raising tads, and that has an impact on a froglet's/juvi size. Another thing that impacts growth is the food. So just because Joe Blow is selling a Leuc that's 3 months old, it may not be anywhere as big as someone else's 3 months old Leuc.

This is a great discussion! Let's see what more have to say!


----------



## joshua_delancey69 (Mar 1, 2004)

Not avoiding selling under 3 months because people do it.....do i, I will sell after 2 months if I feel good about the frog. I am just saying that the reason I dont like calling a 2 month old froglet in Tinc species a juvie is because to me thats a little misleading when i think of juvie i think almost subadult/adult and 2 months old is about 3-4 months from being a Subadult. I agree that people frogs do grow at diffrent rates. 

I guess what I am saying is that saying juvie for a 2 month old froglet "To Me" is a little misleading just "To Me". Although I do see all points and agree with them. 


My current assessment is as follows

0-3 months Froglet
3-6 months Juvie 
6-9 months Subadult
9+ Adult

P.S. I may get to make it to Frog Day after all.


----------



## kenya_1977 (Apr 8, 2004)

*size vs age*

Amanda, you totally hit on the point that was coming to mind with me. Depending on time in the water (some people keep water temps higher in order to speed up tad development) and quality and frequency of feeding methods.. you end up with a very wide range in froglet/juvie sizes. 

One person's 4 month old froglet/juvie might look another breeders 2 month old. Although it is really nice to know how long the froglet/juvie has been out of the water, reference to size could be really important in evaluating over all health of the frog. 

I would much prefer someone that housed tads at a lower temp yeilding bigger out of the water froglets rather than someone that tried to put that weight on post morphing. So, both attributes are very important. 

-Crystal


----------



## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

This iis interesting to hear how people classify age/size of their frogs. I tend to go with a mix of what Amanda said and what Bill said. Size is as important as age for some species. Also as far as age at selling time is important. 2 months is a good point for most larger species to ship, whereas a few weeks earlier "may" be acceptable for a few fast maturing species but it also depends on the "hardiness" of the particular species. 
Just my 2 cents,
Mike


----------



## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

I just state their age in months. Anything less than half grown but past the tadpole stage is a froglet, and after that they're sub-adults.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I myself was having a similar problem, when Josh asked the age of my tricolor "juvies." Technically, they are a little over a month old out of the water, but they are nearly the size of the smallest adult male that I have. thus, I called it a juvenile vs. a froglet due to the huge size. But, it'd probably be better to say its a "large froglet."

I think using terms like froglet and juvenile are still pretty vague. I guess the only real way is to say, "this frog is such and such old."


----------



## joshua_delancey69 (Mar 1, 2004)

Hey Rain_Frog I ment this towards you in no way I ment to post this a month ago and got distracted by other things......I enjoyed our consverstation.,...


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

No, I'm aware you aren't "targetting" it at me Josh, you already mentioned about the three week old froglet said to be a juvenile beforehand in chat last night anyway. No need for any apologies.

I was just adding, when you did speak to me last night, you came up with a good point that titles like "juvie" or froglet can be misleading.


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Here is a thought to stur the pot....

While helping one of my housemates over the summer with his research (pit traps mainly for snakes but recording anything in the traps) he had a system for what he called juvie, subadult, adult, etc. to standardize his results. With a good number of fresh out of the water anurans coming into the traps (leopards, greens, bulls, woods juvies mostly) we had a long convo on how he classified these little guys compared to what I'm used to doing with my frogs. He considered everything past Gosner stage 46 (at which point its finish absorbing its tail and would be hopping around on land) subadults, the tapoles would be juvenile stage. Froglet was thrown out as a laymen's term for the subadults just out of the water.

I personally use froglet and juvenile interchangibly, juvenile being the more official term - I know some other people do as well. For me, anything less than half to 2/3 the size of the potiential adult size would be a juvnile, then subadult from that point to when they ae full sized and become sexually mature. I wouldn't recomend selling MY idea of a juvenile - the stress and lack of food even for short periods can keep an animal from reaching its full potential (froglets I've raised being larger than froglets I've bough, etc.)

I do it based on size due to my practices of trying to get the largest froglets possible, which usually end up maturing earlier than other people's (I believe most animals mature at a size, not an age, and a 3 month out of the water tricolor the size of an adult male and starting to chirp supports that). The size is compared to adults of the same species and morph, comparing between morphs and species is rather pointless.

Different foods can also play a role in size - for me crickets seems to get the frogs larger overall and faster, but I don't have the evidence to prove it at the moment.


----------

