# Pink springs



## Grrrit (May 30, 2011)

Do the pink springs produce slower? A little while back I purchased a few spring cultures (not my first springs, just the first time I've had the pink ones and used this method) and it seems the havent produced half as much as the tropicals and temperates I got at the some time. I received each culture with coir and such a media, so I followed the methods in "pumilios" thread on how to coax them into charcoal cultures. Maybe I should have goren kingsford instead of the offbrand  jk but today I was dividing the larger cultures to make more and repeat the process with the same cultures I received. Idk why theyre producing so slow but at least they are. And I havent spotted any mites. I ben keeping my eyes peeled. 

Lol and my christo froglets got a few thousand extra springs thrown in their viv while I ws working


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Pinks do produce slower than Temperate whites. In my experience though, they establish better in vivs. This makes them both valuable assets to work with.


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## Grrrit (May 30, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Pinks do produce slower than Temperate whites. In my experience though, they establish better in vivs. This makes them both valuable assets to work with.


Thanks! Your the man!


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Pinks do produce slower than Temperate whites. In my experience though, they establish better in vivs. This makes them both valuable assets to work with.


really? i have had faster response from pinks than any other spring ive worked with. how are you keeping the pinks?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

motydesign said:


> really? i have had faster response from pinks than any other spring ive worked with. how are you keeping the pinks?


On charcoal, in a coco fiber and peat mix, and in a sphagnum mix. Fed on yeast and with filtered containers like in my thread. I've actually never heard anyone say that a pink will outproduce a temperate white springtail.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

motydesign said:


> really? i have had faster response from pinks than any other spring ive worked with. how are you keeping the pinks?


I agree with Pumilo; my pinks reproduce at a rate that is a small fraction of what my temperates do. I believe I've read that Folsoma candida reproduces by parthenogenesis, which would be one reason they reproduce faster.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

well i am doing it wrong then  ok so my trick is the same as the trick for pumilios... LEAF LITTER  

i do a bed of fine crushed charcoal 1/4 to 1/2" deep then 4 or so inches of scrub oak leaves. fed ONLY bakers yeast when required.

i also JUST divided this and another that ive had for 2 months into 2 cultures each. so now i have a total of 6 pinks going right now. you can see i JUST did the division 2 days ago being the replacement leaves are still a touch green hahaha

maybe i can teach the OLD-bug-man (yes emphasized  jk) 
its HD so blow it up big to get the full effect.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Nice. I do get production like that. I'm not saying they reproduce slowly, just that my white temperates reproduce faster. Take a hundred white temperates and a hundred pinks and see which culture hits 10,000 first. That's all I'm saying.
I might play with some leaves but if I put leaves in both, I still think the whites will produce faster.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Moty, do you have a layer/pool of water at the bottom of the pink cultures? Is the culture ventilated?


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Ummmm I will do a little un scientific experiment then. You need to realize that was only two months old, started off as a little culture with maybe 500 bugs. Maybe Doug you just produce bugs faster than I can fathom hahah
Hypo, the coal is wet and kinda like a muddy mix as best I can discribe but there is water enough that you stick your finger in it, It comes out wet. It's unvented, shoe boxes are pretty open IMO.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

How does one count springtails?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

You really can't count them. I was just using that as a reference. I guess I should be asking you if you are, in fact, working with White Temperate springtails too, or if you are just having a hard time imagining better production. White tropicals don't count. I'm talking specifically about White Temperates.
I will certainly concede that there are always better ways to be learned and I have plenty of oak leaves to play with. Here's my experiences regarding humidity and pinks. They don't tend to do as well with much standing water on the bottom as white temperates do. If you get two closed dishes of just water, and put some white temps in one and some pinks in the other, after 4 or 5 days, the pinks are dead and drowned and whites are still alive. (This was in an experiment to try drowning mites--the mites were still alive) In my charcoal cultures, the pinks tend to mostly hang out on the underside of the charcoal chunks. This might be telling us that they would like a little higher humidity? Hard to do just in a charcoal container, though as they can eventually drown. It's only recently that I started working with them on a coco fiber and peat blend. They do tend to spend more time on the surface though so maybe they are happy with the slightly damper conditions. Who knows, maybe the leaves and the finer charcoal are keeping it a bit damper and raising production?
So let me know if you are working with White Temperates, too.
Oh and thanks for the old man comment. My kids weren't here today to take care of that so you really made me feel at home.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Another thing to consider is are those pinks, 100% pinks. I have had difficulty recently with temperates getting into everything and eventually displacing other species. The last of my pinks seem to all be whites now. The reason I know this is the production has really increased and I only see 1 or 2 adult pink in the cultures. My tropical whites were completely destroyed and not even sure when that happened and looks like I could be loosing my Tomocerus too.


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## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

JeremyHuff said:


> Another thing to consider is are those pinks, 100% pinks. I have had difficulty recently with temperates getting into everything and eventually displacing other species. The last of my pinks seem to all be whites now. The reason I know this is the production has really increased and I only see 1 or 2 adult pink in the cultures. My tropical whites were completely destroyed and not even sure when that happened and looks like I could be loosing my Tomocerus too.


The same thing happened to my pink springs now I just have temperate white in all my cultures. My guess is that some came in on my leaf litter and as Jeremy said they then out competed the other species.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey guys, if you pull up the Youtube page that Moty linked us to, you can blow it up and see that they are definitely Pinks. As far as cross contamination, yes, white temperates are invasive little buggers! That's why I love those .3 micron filters that Frogparty and I are always pushing. Tight closing containers with an air filter to lock them out but let them breathe.
My methods are NOT the final word in culturing. I'm looking forward to maybe learning something here. Moty, I assume you are boiling the leaves to help eliminate mite contamination?


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## ckays (Jul 26, 2011)

I picked up some of those micron filters thanks to Doug's advice. They are quite handy and my springs are doing noticeably better than the first time around when i suffocated them all. 

I haven't had the culture long, but I will definitely second the recommendation of using them.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

motydesign said:


> Hypo, the coal is wet and kinda like a muddy mix as best I can discribe but there is water enough that you stick your finger in it, It comes out wet. It's unvented, shoe boxes are pretty open IMO.


Wait, so are you saying that you culture them in a open lidless container?

And yeah, the whites are horribly invasive. I think I recall Ed saying that he cultures them in an entirely different room or even house level because they always get in.

The micron filters are no guarantee that you won't get a contamination. Lack of sterile technique can cause an accidental introduction of the whites. I should know, my pink culture got contaminated recently; I think it was when I fed out the whites (by blowing into the culture of course, where they go flying everywhere), and didn't properly wipe down with etOH. I'm seriously considering getting rid of the white culture - I don't feed them out that much, and it's not worth keeping around when you factor in the pain of having to clean other cultures...


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

hypostatic said:


> I'm seriously considering getting rid of the white culture - I don't feed them out that much, and it's not worth keeping around when you factor in the pain of having to clean other cultures...


Or, only keep the whites because they are some much more prolific...

I think the pinks and whites are the same genus, and immature pinks look nearly identical to whites. That is why it is so difficult to know you have contamination until the very end... I am going to start working with only one species per day. I will also move my other spp away from the whites. The micron filters are good for master cultures. I have switched to just making deli size cultures because I was so frustrated loosing large cultures overnight to mites. I now have 100ish deli cup cultures and rarely get mites, but if I do it isn't a huge loss.


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## Grrrit (May 30, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys! have any of you worked with the blue springs? In the future I'd like to get then and the giant black ones.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

I have the blue and black Tomocerus. I think I am finally getting decent production on the blacks. The blues are so tiny and they are on charcoal that is is very hard to see how many are in it.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

hypostatic said:


> Wait, so are you saying that you culture them in a open lidless container?


I'm pretty sure he just means he used the type of plastic shoebox that doesnt' seal very tightly, but uses a lid. 



Grrrit said:


> Thanks for the info guys! have any of you worked with the blue springs? In the future I'd like to get then and the giant black ones.


I had a culture of the tiny blues but just when they really started cranking, I killed them off. Maybe I should have listened to my own advice and get filter put in that one. Duh!


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## Grrrit (May 30, 2011)

ok thanks a bunch fellas. I'm trying to maximize my microfuana potential tge next few months before I get my el dorados and caucheros. I have plenty going now for just my christos but I'll have 7 more pums in april (4 will be froglets).


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Motydesign is definitely on to something here. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fo...opods-woodlice-springtails-35.html#post720008
Sorry though Moty, the Temperates are still faster producing!


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Motydesign is definitely on to something here. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fo...opods-woodlice-springtails-35.html#post720008
> Sorry though Moty, the Temperates are still faster producing!


okay fine,.... but to be fair i was comparing other peoples temp cultures on the standard coco vs my pinks on leaves.... i WON!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

motydesign said:


> okay fine,.... but to be fair i was comparing other peoples temp cultures on the standard coco vs my pinks on leaves.... i WON!


Apples to oranges, my friend. CHEATING!!


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## Scoobs (Nov 15, 2010)

I think a couple experiments with different parameters should hopefully yield how to reproduce them faster, is anyone had any luck doing this?


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## Scoobs (Nov 15, 2010)

I would but I don't have any pink springtails


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I will say that my silvers that i used to have BOOMED on just sphag and leaf litter in a 2.5gal tank. I nvr fed them anything other than what was in the culture and i misted once a week.

I wonder if pinks would thrive if kept the same way? (Or blacks for that matter)


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Scoobs said:


> I think a couple experiments with different parameters should hopefully yield how to reproduce them faster, is anyone had any luck doing this?


I have grown Pinks on Charcoal, in a peat and coco fiber blend, on straight coco fiber, and in this current leaf litter and coco fiber blend. They have definitely done best on the leaf litter and coco fiber. Be aware, however, these were UNCONTROLLED experiments. No real science behind it, just my own experience. 



Scoobs said:


> I would but I don't have any pink springtails


I'll be listing my next round of bug shipping in 2 to 3 weeks and I will have plenty of Pinks available.



Gamble said:


> I will say that my silvers that i used to have BOOMED on just sphag and leaf litter in a 2.5gal tank. I nvr fed them anything other than what was in the culture and i misted once a week.
> 
> I wonder if pinks would thrive if kept the same way? (Or blacks for that matter)


Hey Gamble, my newer silvers are breeding and growing much better than the last ones I told you about.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Hey Gamble, my newer silvers are breeding and growing much better than the last ones I told you about.


Awesome. What substrate r u using?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Awesome. What substrate r u using?


Leaf litter and coco fiber.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Leaf litter and coco fiber.


Are you going to attempt culturing Blacks using this same method?
(I know u said in the past that u were having some issues)

BTW, idk if ive ever told u, but i used to live in boulder,co for like 4/5mo. Just an fyi.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Are you going to attempt culturing Blacks using this same method?
> (I know u said in the past that u were having some issues)


I may, but for now I saved what I could and got them back onto charcoal. I've had the best results with them on charcoal. I have sterilized some Tree Fern panels and the plan is to get a batch of clay made up, put down an inch or two of clay, and put a series of 6" x 6" tree fern panels on top. They had established very well in vivs with cork bark and or tree fern panels so I'm giving that a whirl in culturing. I'm also adding extra vents. When these guys get going, they are oxygen sucking machines!


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I've been getting pretty good production with my pinks by solely feeding 100% pure, uncut sugar =]


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Gamble said:


> Are you going to attempt culturing Blacks using this same method?
> (I know u said in the past that u were having some issues)
> 
> BTW, idk if ive ever told u, but i used to live in boulder,co for like 4/5mo. Just an fyi.


I 'think' I finally found something the blacks seem to love and do well on. I use the coco chunks. Soak them for a few minutes so they are damp but not saturated. Then I added strangler fig leaf litter because it holds its curl, but I think live oak would work too. I used ff containers for the cultures and filled it 2/3 the way up. No standing water. They took off when temperate whites didn't get in and take over. I have moved my good cultures into a large rubber gasket food container to keep the temperates out. I now only work with one species a day to try to avoid cross contamination.


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