# Vinarium 65G



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

*Vinarium 65G
*
I took some time over the holiday to plant a new setup featuring botanically-interesting vines in this 65-gallon tank. 










I set this up in _Dojō Terrarium_ style, so there is just a simple gravel soil layer with the vertical dimension built up using logs and branches.




























Here is the list of plants I've pulled together so far...


_Banisteriopsis caapi _ 
_Cissus antarctica_
_Freycinetia_ sp. 
_Piper sintenense_

So this is just four species, but they are all kind of interesting. I hope that I can two or three more vines in the enclosure. With pruning and a few more wood pieces to climb, they should work out OK. 

I had just gotten the _B. caapi_ with an online order and it looked a little shocky when I unboxed it, but it seems to be alright now planted in the tank.










My second concept for this setup is to model decomposition in the forest. I plan to add Collembola and isopods and it would also be neat to also consider one or two roach species and maybe a beetle. I want to do this in a more or less controlled way and also avoid introducing undesirable hitchhikers such as earwigs, earthworms and lots of mites, so the large half-rotten log was baked to raise temperature inside to almost 200F. This should be hot enough to kill invertebrate animals and eggs. But I hope that some of the bacteria and fungi will have survived to start the decomposition processes. This punky rotten wood is a very good insulator. I had to bake at 300 degrees for more than two hours to get it up to temp inside. 










_Cissus antarctica_ is a kind of common garden plant for warm areas, but I like the leaves. It's also neat because it's in the grape family, but tropical.










_Freycinetia_ and _Banisteriopsis caapi_. 










Here it is planted. If the plants grow it will start to look like something when they have doubled or tripled their foliage.


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## Eruantien (Dec 23, 2014)

This is really cool! Always enjoy seeing your setups!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks. It will start to look like something when the plants establish and start to grow. I also hope to see some blooms. Another one I'm adding is a small-growing _Passiflora_ with small pink blossoms that's coming with another order.


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## DPfarr (Nov 24, 2017)

A small Passiflora sounds neat!

Did you consider any of the Aristolochia?


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

What are you currently using for lighting? Is that going to be your final lighting for the tank? It has a dappled forest floor look right now with some strong streaks of lighting breaking through the shade.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

DPfarr said:


> A small Passiflora sounds neat!
> 
> Did you consider any of the Aristolochia?


Yes I ordered seeds for a couple small _Aristolochia_ from georgiavines.com and I have them in a seed bed, but I don't see any germination yet. 

This would be a really great mini _Aristolochia_ to grow and it's not too hard to find. Although it's deciduous and with a cold winter dormancy cycle, so it wouldn't work so well in a terrarium...

https://www.plantdelights.com/products/aristolochia-fimbriata



varanoid said:


> What are you currently using for lighting? Is that going to be your final lighting for the tank? It has a dappled forest floor look right now with some strong streaks of lighting breaking through the shade.


That's just a single PAR38 LED. I'm going to add a second one for better coverage.


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## DaisyMaisy (May 6, 2015)

Looks great! Love the stuff you come up with. Always amazing.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

The plants in here are slowly establishing and have some new growth. I am wondering about a heat mat to bring the temp up into the low 70s and get the plants going faster. 




























The _Banisteriopsis_ looked pretty sad for a while, but it has grown lots of new roots and here comes a bud with new leaves. 










_Cissus antarctica_ with just a couple new leaves. 










The _Passiflora sanguinolenta_ has already more than doubled its foliage. This one is a rampant grower, but I think I will be able to keep it pruned well enough by maintaining it over along the left side of the tank. There is some space there for it and I hope it can grow enough to also give me blooms.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got the first of my detritivore introductions for this setup in an order from Cape Cod Roaches...

_Ergaula pilosa_ Big Black Beetle Mimic
_Hemiblabera tenebricosa_ Horseshoe Crab Roach
_Porcellionides pruinosus_ Powdery Blue Isopods
I have not added these to the setup yet, but instead put them into their own separate culture tubs. I will wait until I see reproduction before moving them again. But it will be a while because I got the roaches as nymphs.

A couple of weeks ago I added _Trichorhina _Dwarf White Isopods and Giant White Springtails, but I don't see them multiplying yet. The enclosure is still kind of chilly at about 70F. I also installed a 16W reptile heat mat that bumped the temp only about 2F. I might add another heat mat.


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## Mmkco (Dec 3, 2018)

That is a Really great looking build! Nice work. It makes me want to be there in the scene and it makes me feel it. Not to be too cheesy, but I love the builds that invoke that emotion inside and you can actually visualize yourself being there. Love it!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Mmkco said:


> That is a Really great looking build! Nice work. It makes me want to be there in the scene and it makes me feel it. Not to be too cheesy, but I love the builds that invoke that emotion inside and you can actually visualize yourself being there. Love it!


Thanks very much. I am trying to create something like the atmosphere of a real forest.

Tonight I saw the first adult _Ergaula pilosa_ I'm going to wait until there is solid reproduction in the roach colonies before I introduce them to this setup. 

I really want to get some more roach species going. I had a few different ones a few years ago but lost them all. It would be great to also have some _Therea_.


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## tropfrog (Sep 6, 2018)

Really nice setup, good work!

Worth considering is the little kenyan roach Blaberidae sp. “Kenya”. Really efficient detritivore that are usually kept successfully together with bigger species. I use them as cleaners in dart frog tank as well.

BR
Magnus


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

tropfrog said:


> Really nice setup, good work!
> 
> Worth considering is the little kenyan roach Blaberidae sp. “Kenya”. Really efficient detritivore that are usually kept successfully together with bigger species. I use them as cleaners in dart frog tank as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this tip. That looks like a good one. I was intending to only use non-climbing species, but I could just button up the enclosure top better.

Do you have any favorite _Eublaberus_ or _Blaberus_?

If I can get this going with the concept I will later on replace this tank with a 24" X 48" enclosure and see how many different invertebrate species it can maintain.


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## tropfrog (Sep 6, 2018)

hydrophyte said:


> Thanks for this tip. That looks like a good one. I was intending to only use non-climbing species, but I could just button up the enclosure top better.
> 
> Do you have any favorite _Eublaberus_ or _Blaberus_?
> 
> If I can get this going with the concept I will later on replace this tank with a 24" X 48" enclosure and see how many different invertebrate species it can maintain.


You dont have to worry about them climbing. There is a difference between can and want too. The Kenyan cockroach like it best in humid dirt. Only the mature males can climb and they only do it if something is seriously wrong in the substrate. If they for any reason escape the tank, they will die very fast in a normal Indoor Environment. They have small bodies that dry out very fast. This is not a specie that risk to infest your home.

My interest for cochroaches is quite new. Althow I have read a lot, I have ony kept kenyans and dubias. I hope you get better answer about favorites from someone else. This thread inspire me to build naturalistic invert tanks as well, but I have a family that is not as inspired as I am 


Sounds fun to build a big comunal invert tank. Take a look at pill millipedes as well if that is an option for you. Looks like pillbugs, but much bigger and much more visible.

BR
Magnus


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

tropfrog said:


> You dont have to worry about them climbing. There is a difference between can and want too. The Kenyan cockroach like it best in humid dirt. Only the mature males can climb and they only do it if something is seriously wrong in the substrate. If they for any reason escape the tank, they will die very fast in a normal Indoor Environment. They have small bodies that dry out very fast. This is not a specie that risk to infest your home.
> 
> My interest for cochroaches is quite new. Althow I have read a lot, I have ony kept kenyans and dubias. I hope you get better answer about favorites from someone else. This thread inspire me to build naturalistic invert tanks as well, but I have a family that is not as inspired as I am
> 
> ...


That's good to know. Do you still have them going? And are you interested in trades? I have plants and some other stuff here. 

Yeah I'm interested to see how well these different species might interact and get along with each other, or not. My basic idea is to provide as many different microhabitats as possible in the space and also create a temperature gradient across the length of the tank with extra heat on just one end. I hope that in this way they might partition themselves into different areas.

That would be great to get some of those pill millipedes. I also wondered about a regular hardy pet millipede like _Anadenobolus monilicornis_. I hope that would just a be a question of providing an area or two with deeper organic substrate in place of this gravel soil layer that the tank has. 

I kept _Blaberus craniifer_ a few years ago and I liked them a lot. I wouldn't mind getting some more of those.


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## tropfrog (Sep 6, 2018)

hydrophyte said:


> That's good to know. Do you still have them going? And are you interested in trades? I have plants and some other stuff here.


Yes, I would, but I am in Europe. You can get them easier locally. Kyle at Roach crossing have them.

BR
Magnus


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Well it looks like this is going to be a plant-only display for now because I found predatory flatworms inside. I had noticed the springtails declining and I never saw any of the isopods again, then last night I saw a little worm and got a closer look with the jeweler's loupe. I looked around some more and found six in all. I could try to add different kinds of fauna to see how they might react, but I'd rather not encourage the flatworms because I don't want them infesting anything else. 

I read through some of the other threads here on flatworms and nemerteans. I saw black tea suggested there as a way to kill them or slow them down. I researched natural vermicides some more and ran into a few other options...


Wormwood
Black Walnut
Neem
Peppermint
These can all be found in various forms like meals and essential oils. Applying these of course wouldn't be any good for microfauna or other livestock, but I mainly just want to keep the worms down. I want to leave the setup going some more for the plants because some of them are just starting to take off.

It sounds like those flatworms are almost impossible to eradicate and I wouldn't count on any natural remedy to get them all. Before reusing plants from this setup I will start them over carefully with clean cuttings and I'll also bake the gravel substrate in the oven so I can reuse it when I tear it all down.

The most recent plant addition is pretty neat. I was surprised to find a _Gmelina phillipensis_ among potted houseplants at the garden center. This thing grows like a scandent shrub and the flowers are really wild. The foliage is also unusual. Surprisingly, it is in the mint family. It looked pretty shocky and dropped half its leaves after I transplanted it into the tank, but now it has established and has several new shoots growing back.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got a start on the enclosure for the next iteration of this idea. This one will be 48" long by 25" tall by 21" deep and I'm building it with 1/2" expanded PVC panel 

This is the first time I've used this stuff. Last night I got the sides put together with 1" screws and PVC cement. It was pretty messy, but went OK.

I'm going to have a lot of sanding to do before I put the finish on it. This cheap panel varies a lot in thickness and none of the corners lined up straight. I intend to paint the exterior with latex in some nice color combination and the inside with DryLok tinted as close to black as possible. Kilz makes a paint primer for PVC and I might use that before putting colors on top.


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

hydrophyte where'd you get the PVC panel?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Home Depot. It was $52 for a 48" X 96" panel.


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## Mmkco (Dec 3, 2018)

I REALLY Hate(love)that these build threads are so damn addicitve!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I haven't been back here in a while.

I don't know what happened to my linked photos above(?). They are still on the page where I have them hosted. I think I need to go back to maintaining a WordPress blog because the image management is much easier and more durable. 

Here's a quick update for this setup. It took the plants a long time to finally establish and grow with more vigor, but they are looking pretty good now. People had told me that it would be difficult to manage these fast-growing vines in a vivarium, but I have not found that to be true at all. I can easily just move stems around or trim to keep things growing in the right direction. The plants find their own way and there is space and light for numerous layers of foliage, so this 65-gallon tank can hold an impressive amount of this kind of growth.

I added two more botanically-interesting selections and they are both establishing well...

_Passiflora pittieri_
_Aristolochia macroura_
The P. pittieri is a real cool one. This plant belongs to _Passiflora_ section Astrophea, which grow as lianas, trees and shrubs, rather than as herbaceous vines. The flowers are really great, although I don't know if I'll ever grow it big enough to get blooms. I added the _A. macroura_ because it has flowers that are relatively smaller in comparison with most _Aristolochia_ in the gardening trade.


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