# Oophaga Vicentei x Oophaga Pumilio



## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

Found this article and thought it was interesting enough to share...

http://www.coolhunting.com/culture/oophaga-vicente.php

...what would you say the pumilio used to make that frog was?


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

Was there supposed to be a link?


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

MD_Frogger said:


> ...what would you say the pumilio used to make that frog was?


Don't know, but I will guess colon pumilio?
Bryan


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

these natural crosses are common and occur between o. arboreus and o. pumilio as well.

james


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Where is the no hybrid crowd with this glaring example?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i think anyone in their right mind (that had vicenti or arboreus) wouldnt even consider making crosses. i think of theses crosses as similar to the histrionica x lehmanii crosses. 

but i understand what your getting at bill 

james


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## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

billschwinn said:


> Where is the no hybrid crowd with this glaring example?


They can keep to themselves. This thread is not meant for any BS bickering back and forth...


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

As much as I am against crosses, that is one striking frog. Absolutely gorgeous.


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## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

That's what I was thinking Bryan...either that or a plain old Basti maybe?

James, it's not a matter of whether you think some one "in their right mind" would breed them together or not. It's been done and there is the pic to prove it. If you read the short article as to why the cross was performed it will inform you about how the specimen fits the owner's psyche to the T. Quite luring from both the artistic and psychosocial perspectives and aesthetically pleasing to boot. Is she in her right mind? Probably, but then she probably has other intentions with this frog than a hardcore frogger such as yourself.

I agree 100% with you on both your points Edwing


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i have read the article, and you seem to have misunderstood what i was getting at. 

i was attempting to point out that these crosses occur naturally in the wild, but that CB specimens appearing in the hobby would be very unlikely, similar to the histo/lehmanii crosses. IMO these type of frogs are usually kept by people who i couldnt imagine justifying creating hybrids, regardless of their occurrence in nature

as far as the student's project is concerned, i for one am not impressed. while i'm not an art critic (or expert by any means) i have been trained in numerous artistic disciplines over the years and have my BFA from one of the the top art and design schools in the US. if i would have bred my frogs and used it as an art project (regardless of the story behind it) my professors would have told me it was lacking in a number of areas. good art tells a story, and IMO great art lets the viewer decide what that is woithout needing comentary by the artist. simply displaying a frog doesnt elicit the response to the cultural thing, rather the student has to explain the story of the mixing and that in itself makes the project weak IMO. 

but, i agree the frog is very attractive 

james


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## bmore (May 11, 2010)

james67 said:


> i have read the article, and you seem to have misunderstood what i was getting at.
> 
> i was attempting to point out that these crosses occur naturally in the wild, but that CB specimens appearing in the hobby would be very unlikely, similar to the histo/lehmanii crosses. IMO these type of frogs are usually kept by people who i couldnt imagine justifying creating hybrids, regardless of their occurrence in nature
> 
> ...


Agreed and very eloquently put.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

james67 said:


> i have read the article, and you seem to have misunderstood what i was getting at.
> 
> i was attempting to point out that these crosses occur naturally in the wild, but that CB specimens appearing in the hobby would be very unlikely, similar to the histo/lehmanii crosses. IMO these type of frogs are usually kept by people who i couldnt imagine justifying creating hybrids, regardless of their occurrence in nature
> 
> ...



I also went to school for art, art history and design and would have to agree 110% with you.


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

not to side track but RE "she shouldn't have to explain it", what about that Damian Hirst project, "The physical impossibility of death in the mind of someone living", the real (dead) great white shark on display. See, that requires an authorial explanation in the title and is completely different without it. I don't think that this girl's art has to be taken outside of any little paragraph on the wall next to it come exhibition time. Plus, who's to say she doesn't have an awesome and perhaps interesting viv on display, the likes of which most people have probably never seen. I don't think art often has the luxury of standing in a vacuum, nor that it necessarily should.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Nature gets the ultimate pass...



Not so much the fat kid in his basement.


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## DF20 (Jul 7, 2007)

I call BS on this one. I think the person is a frog hobbyist, could not think of a project to do, came up with this idea because they wanted to incorporate their hobby in some way into their artwork. Unless you have been in art school recently ( which i have ) it is hard to understand the modern style of art and the way in which the young wanna be artists think. Most of them come up with the most random crap for school projects because they ran out of time because they were out partying half the week. 

Or they just are plain weird and have no grip on reality and have no intention of their "work" making sense to the average person. Most times their ego reflects their inability to visually and mentally portray the message to the audience through whatever medium they have chosen. 

Ability to produce hybrid grade = A+ ( not something that is easily done )
Ability to take a good photo = A+ (frogs are small and don't sit still )
Ability to BS their message through the medium = FAIL
Ability to convince me that it is art = FAIL 

(photography is an art form but it is not in the traditional sense "art" )

Attempt at trying to look like a person that has issues in life that needs therapy= A+

Sorry for the rant but i have been through enough art school recently to know the kinds of mindsets behind young artists and see past their BS. And yes half the time their art does not make sense and they have to reach for BS explanations to why they did what they did.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I think in a case like this it all comes down to how honest the artist is being in their motivations. This could easily be a case of "oh I made a hybrid and now people are mad, well I'll just call it art and make up a story to justify it, and if the story happens to be true to some extent then all the better!" (or "Oh I want to make a hybrid but people will be mad if I don't feed them some BS. so I'll call it art!")...something like that.

If I ever produce a glowing frog, it may in part be art, in part intellectual curiosity and the challenge of if I can do it or not...but at least in my case its going to be about 60% (minimum) because I just want one. Often motivations are not as clear as one pure intent...usually there are many, but there is usually also 1 main driving force. Was it art in this case? Only the artist and whoever they choose to honestly confide in knows their true intentions....I just hope she is being honest and not using art to justify her own desires then basically lying about it. Can't know that though, so for now she gets the benefit of the doubt regardless of how I feel about the quality of her art (which is its ok IMO, interesting but not overly impressed).


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