# most active thumbnail?



## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

I was just wondering, what is the most active and boldest of the thumbnail and other smaller frogs? I know this varies from frogger to frogger but what is your experience? Also what conditions do you have the boldest frogs in?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The imitators I'd have to say are the boldest. Both the green imis and intermedius are darn bold frogs. I only had a single terapota a long time ago, so I can't really speak for them, and obviously not the yuris as I have yet to get them lol. While you'll still hear stories of these frogs being shy, there are exceptions to every rule, and I think it might also be calling them shy compared to say, a tinc (FEED ME!!). Of course these guys are shier than tincs, but they are definately out and about and "bold" as far as thumbs go.

Vents, amazons, fants, the pang lamasi morphs, and variabilis are all much more skittish IME.

Higher humidity with a lush tank (plenty of hide spots they can dash to) will help bring out some frogs.


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## Thinair (Aug 27, 2005)

I agree with imitator being bold. I have no other thumbnail experience, but I can usually see all three in their 29g vert. It's fairly lush and often a wet, sloppy mess, but the frogs seem to love it as they're breeding like mad... Sometimes they'll be hanging out on the door of the tank and not move when I open it to feed/mist/prune. I can also stand with my nose against the glass and watch them do their little imitator tricks right in front of me - a far cry from my auratus which dash for cover if they know I'm looking in their direction.

Car


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## twisner (Jul 7, 2005)

another vote for imis here, i have 3 intermedius always out and calling like mad, hopefully ill get some eggs soon


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## phyllomedusa (May 17, 2004)

Another vote for imitators! although the vents i got last year are very out going.


Sean


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## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

My Retics are also very bold. there isnt a part of their 29 gallon tank that they dont touch everyday. They are like on search and destroy missions all the time.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

My retics are very bold, but my vote would be for banded intermedius!


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

David- 
what frog do you have in your avatar? Is that an amizonicus or a red ventrimaculatus?
Forgive my ignorance I am still new here :wink:


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Red Amazonicus...very shy! I see them everyday, but I have to stay and look for a while.


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

Is that pic one of your frogs? It has amazing coloration. I love the way the color changes as you go down the body.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

I have a breeding group of 5 that are on strike right now!


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

so David, put me on your list if you get them breeding again :wink: 


I agree about the imis, my pair is out most of the time but they are not as in your face as the azureus. I am planning my next viv project and trying to decide what frogs I want to put in there. I will be a larger viv 55gal or so. I also want a frog I will be able to see, I don't mind a little shyness as long as they are not possitively reclusive  That is why I asked about the behavior of the thumbnails. I really love the retic and pums but I understand they are more fragile. how are the amy and red vents for hardiness? I am really leaning toward a pair or group of those. I know this may seem silly but I want to know what frogs I am going to get before I start the viv. I want to be sure I create an environment they will enjoy and choose plants that will compliment their coloration.

So what is your experience with the other thumbnails?


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## jeffreyvmd (Oct 16, 2004)

*intermedius*

Of all the thumbnails, I would definitely say that the intermedius are the most active. They always seem to be out, including the juvinelles.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

There are few frogs as bold as Azureus lol. Some tincs, and stuff like terribilis. Thats about it...

Amys and red vents are much shier and skittish, and aren't good first frogs (if you like these guys I'd start with the yellow French Guiana Vents first). Both of these guys are trickier animals, and you'd benefit from experience with other thumbnails for a while first, and I recomend getting the yellow vents to see if you are ok with the personality - I do not really recomend these guys for a frog you want to see in a 55 as red amys have a habit of disapearing in the exoterras which are a fraction the size... I'd stick with imitator or intermedius.

A note about red/orange amys and red vents in the hobby. You can tell the frog in David's avatar is a red amy rather than a vent due to the red turning to yellow near the belly and back legs - the dorsal stripes of red vents are red all the way to the end, no change in color. The Mark Pepper orange iquitos vents that are now popping up CB from his first shipment are what we still call amys (amazonicus) in the hobby - Mark is sticking with the scientifically accepted name of ventrimaculatus. We tend to still use amazonicus in the hobby as a "morph" name rather than the scientific name.... easiest to think of it this way:

_Dendrobates ventrimaculatus_ 'Red'
_Dendrobates ventrimaculatus_ 'red/orange amazonicus' (what is pictured in David's avatar)

In a way of thinking, the Mark Pepper Iquitos vents are the same or similar morph to the red/orange amazons in the hobby, but since we don't know if they actually are, and come from the same place, you probibly shouldn't mix the bloodlines (this gets into the bloodline debate tho).


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

Cool! Thanks for the insight. I am still in the planning stages of this next viv and so I am asking tons of questions to help me get started. I love all of these frogs and I am having a hard time deciding what I want to put in my next viv. I really love the thumbs and I also am intrigued by the LBF's that Corey adores so much. Flip- flop- flip-flop LOL :wink: regardless, it will be several months possibly even up to a year before I am ready to begin construction. Its a $$$ thing really (and space) So by the time I am ready to actually get frogs I will have some experience under my belt with the imis and azureus.

The thing is, despite the difficulty, I am really drawn to the more dramatic frogs and I appreciate the fact that they are more rare in the hoby ( as if any of these frogs was anything other than rare ) Maybe due to the challangeof their care, I don't really know. but I don't intend to jump into keeping any other frog before I have learned as much as I can from reading as much as I can and asking tons of questions and of course learning all that I can from caring for the frogs I already have. I don't intend to collect a bunch of different frogs, the next pair or group I get will likely be the last for a really long time.
so anyway back to the thumbs... what other thumbs have great little characters?


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## DaSlackMan (Feb 3, 2006)

Tadpole4 said:


> ...I don't intend to collect a bunch of different frogs, the next pair or group I get will likely be the last for a really long time.....


That's what they all say... 8)


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

No really- I don't have any place to keep them unless I put the kids out in the garage and convert one of their rooms into a frog room. Hmmmmm I wonder if my DH would go for that idea...... :lol:


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

My favorite thumbnail of all time is a Reticulatus because they are so small and beautiful and in a group setting seem to be much more active. I They love being on the floor and are bolder with lots of leaf litter to cruise in and out of for safety. I have a group of 6 in a 20 gallon long (not recommened, but I am watching the group dynamic very closely). There has been no fighting in the month to month and half that I have had them set up that way. They have been calling like crazy for the past 2 days!























































I am getting Standard Lamasi, which I have wanted for as long as I have been in the hobby. I'll let you know more about them in time.

You could easily house 10 - 15 intermedius in a heavily planted 55 gallon tank, which would allow you to see them all the time! I am about to get 10 intermedius to add to the three I already have and put them in a large viv. Mine are typically at the front of the tank right at the top where the lid is! Actually I have to be extremely careful when I open the lid because of the possibility of escape.














































I also have Imitators and two males wrested all the time in a 15" cube. That is really funny to watch because one grabs the other and they basically role around like idiots.



















Quinqs are pretty shy, but beautiful and are bigger than most of my thumbs. They have a unique call, which sounds like a buzz that is very faint and different than my retics, amys and vents (which all sound the same to me).

I have never heard my fants call ever and I rarely see them except in the morning before the lights come on and in the evening right before lights out. They are very skittish and the fastest frog that I have ever dealt with. I tore up my room chasing one down...literally!









































































Pumilio are the easiest to breed...they do all the work. They are fairly bold and I would consider my bastis to be middle of the pack in that regard.





































Red amys are shy.

I think everyone has seen these, but they are part of the collection.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2006)

You have beautiful frogs. Those are the most incredible intermedius I've ever seen. :shock: Are they breeding in large numbers for you?

How would you compare your Retics to your Bastis and Fants in terms of their hardiness?


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

I would say they all are equally hardy! The only difference is that if a frog is extremely shy you really can't check out their health that often. I really feel that a tank that is consistantly seeded with springtails is very important and you'll want wingless melanogastors. Also, with thumbnails they do not necessariy eat when you feed them like say a tinc would (pigs). So I believe that it is more important to dust your flies that you are feeding to thumbnails everytime alternating between the two types; calcium and multi. The flies are pretty good about getting a lot of the dust off and if you have a high humidity tank like most of us do, that has the same affect. Also, I feed my thumbnails smaller, but more frequent feedings for this particular reason. However there is a fine line of over feeding, which can stress a frog out to the point of death.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I vote for imitators as at least the most entertaining of the thumbnails in a mixed sex group. Separated pairs aren't as interesting and fun to observe, and tend to be more reclusive, in my own experience. But the interactions in a group with at least one male and and a couple of females makes great voyeuristic opportunities. Imitators are the Italians of dart frogs. The females really rule and compete and fight without actually harming each other, more than the males. They may even compete to feed tads that aren't their's, although they will mess each other's eggs up, and eat them, given a chance. None of my males have ever fought, but my ladies have put on some spectacularly athletic fights, without actually harming or even ultimately intimidating each other much. There's usually just one dominant male the ladies all compete for, while the other one stays in the background to watch for a chance. But that's only what I've observed in my own set-ups over about 6 years of keeping them. So one cannot generalize from this about their over-all behavior. Everyone has had somewhat different experiences, probably influenced a lot by the individual bloodlines and the particular set-ups they are in. 

I like the D. reticulatus too, but they seem to somehow, not obviously fighting or intimidating, end up with just a singe pair in the same tank. The others simply disappear without a trace. Perhaps 30 gallons isn't enough for a group of four, which is the largest I've kept a group of four in so far. They are certainly all over the place for such tiny frogs. I'm interested in other people's experiences with keeping groups of retics.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Dave,

I just put your frog room on my "Places I Have To Visit" list  

Beautiful collection of frogs.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Patty,

I love your posts! Imis are "the Italians of dart frogs"! I can always count on you for a unique characterization.

David,

Thank you so much for all the pics--I love to see a gallery like that of so many portraits of similar frogs. And BTW, you've pretty much sold me on retics.

I would echo everyone else's input about the "outgoing-ness" of intermedius, and add this pic to show how variable they can be (notice the stripes and the blue on the legs. These are from Rich Frye's line--my other intermedius from him look very much like David's):










--Diane


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2006)

David Martin,

OMG, those Bastimentos are breath-taking! I know I'm gonna want those someday. And you have sold me aswell on the retics. Gorgeous pictures by the way.


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

David-
Thanks for the great post! That is exactly what I was hoping for. Thanks for the great pics and descriptions of your frogs. I think I need to put your frog room on my list of places to see as well :wink: 
I agree I love the retics. I also love the way the color fades from red to yellow on the red amy. I got my imis because I read so much about how hardy and entertaining they are and about the other thumbs not being the best choice for a beginner.
I have not regretted that choice. I love the imis and they are very entertaining. I am enjoying everythingabout this hobby imensely. even the ff :? but I still want to build that other viv so here I am searching for another great frog. I really think I want another thumb. though I have to admit, Corey's passion for the epis (LBF) is intriguing. I am really curious about those great singing frogs. so i will do a good bit of research about those as well. 
I love this board. Everyone is so willing to share what they have learned about their frogs.
Patty- good to hear from you, you always have the best way of making your point. I always get a laugh from reading your posts. "Italians of the frog world" HA :lol:


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

this is question has many variables to deal with, but my intermedius just came in and I received 5. They are about 2-3 months old, and I put them in a 10 gallon temp tank heavily planted with pothos/philos, and leaf litter. 

Everytime I go down there I can almost guarantee I will see 4 and with a little searching, I'll find all 5. They are always out on the glass or on leaves, wanting to be seen!


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## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

Ahh Dave, so you have the amy's that I gave perfect tens to in the international photo contest!!


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## doc1975 (Aug 16, 2006)

*dmartin72...*

dmartin72, what model camera did you use to take the photos of your thumbs posted above?


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