# Frogs and water features?



## Zari (Sep 16, 2011)

So I'm totally new to frogs but after I build my turtles their tank I've been formulating ideas for building a viv for some dart frogs. I really want a nice water feature and I was thinking of having a waterfall leading to some streams and then dropping off into a small pond with a drip plate so the water can go down to but the frogs can't. I'm also considering stocking the bottom with fish too just to make it interesting but this is the least of my concerns. My main question is tho will the frogs venture through the streams? sit in em? or will it just take up space from the frogs?

Here's an idea I'm kind of considering.









Tank size being 48Lx36Dx56H and a combination of glass and plywood. There's also a little cave area under the water feature don't want wasted space.

What do you think of the water feature? good idea? bad idea? I'm also looking at around 100-130ish GPH total after head height. Should I aim lower or higher?


Sorry about the questions and if they have been asked before just trying to formulate ideas and such before I even truly consider getting some frogs.


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## ISTHOMS (Jul 29, 2011)

scratch the waterfall to make room for frogs and plants. sounds like thats a huge tank, but you should go small for your first build, like 20 high or 29


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

Sounds awesome and complex. If you have the skills then go for it. Make sure the #1 priority is the frog's health and happiness. People (rightfully) recommend more basic tanks out of experience. Just think it through and you should be fine. Make sure you research the specifics on the frog species you choose too.

Good luck!


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

A water feature isn't needed for DARTS. Its what ever is convient for you. My 1st viv has a water feature, @ 1st I did'nt have a way to drain the water. I made a spot to syphon the water. The 2nd viv does'nt have a water feature. Just plan well a water feature looks great and keeps the humidity up.


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## Zari (Sep 16, 2011)

ISTHOMS said:


> scratch the waterfall to make room for frogs and plants. sounds like thats a huge tank, but you should go small for your first build, like 20 high or 29



I come from the MFK forums(monsterfishkeepers.com) where we go big or don't go at all lol. But in all honesty I don't see why I should start small I want to have plenty of room to incorporate many ideas and give the frogs plenty of room





Steve88W said:


> Sounds awesome and complex. If you have the skills then go for it. Make sure the #1 priority is the frog's health and happiness. People (rightfully) recommend more basic tanks out of experience. Just think it through and you should be fine. Make sure you research the specifics on the frog species you choose too.
> 
> Good luck!


I plan on changing it up some depending on the frog, With my fish its all about their health and to this day the only fish I've lost have been new ones from Walmart or ones in my pond that got nomed by turtles. I have no idea what species I really want but this will be after I build my 8'x4'x2' turtle tank around 6-8months from now all I know is my girlfriend/fiance wants something either green and black or blue and green lol.




B-NICE said:


> A water feature isn't needed for DARTS. Its what ever is convient for you. My 1st viv has a water feature, @ 1st I did'nt have a way to drain the water. I made a spot to syphon the water. The 2nd viv does'nt have a water feature. Just plan well a water feature looks great and keeps the humidity up.


I know for sure I want one and I plan to plan, re-plan, and then plan again.


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## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

I say go for it. It looks like it will make an incredible tank. 

A lot of people on the board will advise you to nix the water feature, trading it for the extra space and less upkeep, but I think it's worth the trade off, especially if this is going to be a display tank. Pumps can break and it would be a shame to have to pull everything apart, so make sure you have a method to get to all the parts of your water system. 

Please post pictures of your monster build, whether you go for the waterfall or not.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

How deep are you looking to make the "streams"? Personally, I'd nix the water feature if this is your first build. 

Which dart frogs are you building this tank for? It makes a difference if we're talking about one species or another, and once you know which species you want to put into this tank you can start looking at them (Researching) and see if this tank would be able to provide an excellent habitat or not for their needs. It would be a shame to put this much effort into a build and then realize after the fact that what you've got is a subpar habitat...


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

I built a water feature (2 actually) in my first Viv build and love it.

Keep the ponds shallow to prevent drownings

Make sure drip walls don't soak the soil

Make it easy to fix as anything electrical or mechanical will eventually break

Get creative! I love a well designed water feature and feel that it adds a layer of 'awesome' to the Viv but just remember who has to live IN the tank full time


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## Zari (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm confident I can make it without a problem and make it easy to service if need be, may even use an external pump. I have no idea what species i want but preferably something that would use the streams. I'm thinking of having the streams preferably half an inch it will take some tweaking to work out the proper depth tho I'm sure.


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## eldalote2 (Jun 3, 2009)

You sound pretty determined and confident that you will be able to make the water feature so I say go for it! I'll also say, have another cheap, small tank ready for your frogs as well just in case anything needs to be tweaked. A 10 gallon or similar sized opaque tupperwear container works well for those situations and will also double as a QT container. 

Good luck and be sure to make a build thread so we can all enjoy!


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## Zari (Sep 16, 2011)

eldalote2 said:


> You sound pretty determined and confident that you will be able to make the water feature so I say go for it! I'll also say, have another cheap, small tank ready for your frogs as well just in case anything needs to be tweaked. A 10 gallon or similar sized opaque tupperwear container works well for those situations and will also double as a QT container.
> 
> Good luck and be sure to make a build thread so we can all enjoy!


I'm an avid fish keeper I have at least a 20gal QT tank on hand at all times, If I do this ill probably grab a couple 10-20gals for QT of the frogs if need be.


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## Glasious (Nov 12, 2008)

I don't understand the point of going small. Go whatever you feel confident in doing. In the end, as long as someone is responsible, researching what is required for the type of frog one wants, and has the needed food sources for the frog to survive, do whatever you want. Going bigger allows for more natural frog behaviour and a more dynamic habitat for them. Can't wait to see the finished product!


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## mcaiger53 (Jan 3, 2011)

most people on this board will strongly advise against water features. I have water features in all of my tinc tanks (about 15 or so) and have noticed that all my tincs use the water from time to time. the water features range from 2"x 4" small ponds to 12"x12" ponds with flowing streams. 2" - 4" deep. I even have a matecho that dives in and swims under water like a bull frog. I know that you don't need standing water for these frogs, but all mine seem to appreciate it. Im sure that some may say that my vivs must be too dry, but I mist at least twice a day, and have constant condesation on the glass, which is enough to support algea growth. I would try to keep the flow to a minimum, and make sure that the water areas are easy to escape. 
I would also do a lot of research on the fish you plan on incorporating. I haved read on here that some fish/aquatic frogs are known to carry bacteria and fungus that are deadly to these frogs. 
just my 2 cents.
mike


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## Zari (Sep 16, 2011)

mcaiger53 said:


> most people on this board will strongly advise against water features. I have water features in all of my tinc tanks (about 15 or so) and have noticed that all my tincs use the water from time to time. the water features range from 2"x 4" small ponds to 12"x12" ponds with flowing streams. 2" - 4" deep. I even have a matecho that dives in and swims under water like a bull frog. I know that you don't need standing water for these frogs, but all mine seem to appreciate it. Im sure that some may say that my vivs must be too dry, but I mist at least twice a day, and have constant condesation on the glass, which is enough to support algea growth. I would try to keep the flow to a minimum, and make sure that the water areas are easy to escape.
> I would also do a lot of research on the fish you plan on incorporating. I haved read on here that some fish/aquatic frogs are known to carry bacteria and fungus that are deadly to these frogs.
> just my 2 cents.
> mike


they would be easy to get in and out of, as for fish if i kept them in the bottom reservoir the would be properly quarantined for 3-4 weeks before being added into it. They would probably be some cory cats and I'm not sure what else maybe some sort of barb. And it sounds like I'd want some tincs unless some one else can suggest other frogs that like water features.


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## mcaiger53 (Jan 3, 2011)

I just want you to understand that I'm not saying, or trying to imply that all tincs like or will use a water feature. I was just trying to say that I wouldn't worry about them drowning as much as others would have you believe. I'm just saying that mine do. If planning on tincs, I would plan on having as much floor space as possible. My tincs do use the water, but they don't spend that much time in it, and some use it more often than others. For example, in one viv I have a pair of alanis. The male seems to love the water, and the female almost never goes in.
I don't try to tell people what to do with their frogs, just try to let them use my experiences to make their own decisions. 
With the fish, I would do your research. Don't quote me, but I think I read on here that aquatic species of frogs have been known to carry chytrid, which is deadly to darts. Most fish stores use a communal filtration system, so it is hard to say what tank has what? And if a certain species is known to carry something, I would think that they may not be affected, so quarentine wouldn't tell you much before introducing them to your frogs. 
Again, I am the farthest thing from an expert.


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## Zari (Sep 16, 2011)

well I still have plenty of time to work out any kinks, and may rework the design down to just one stream and waterfall. As for the fish I'll have to do some research if i decide to throw em in the bottom area. I'd like to just because it seams unique and interesting -shrug-?


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

mcaiger53 said:


> most people on this board will strongly advise against water features.
> mike


I wouldn't go that far, that advice usually comes to people who are trying to put them in verts or 12x12x18 zoo meds.... a tank of the size OP is talking about would be just fine with a water feature. That's considerably different from taking a tank footprint that is already just a square foot or less and making 1/3-1/2 of that virtually unusable. 

To the OP- one thing to keep in mind when figuring out the number of frogs to be stocked, is that a ### gallon tank with a large water feature can't comfortably hold as many frogs as the same size tank without one. If that doesn't bother you, go for it.


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## HiMonster (Sep 22, 2011)

Mfk rocks!!!


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

mcaiger53 said:


> most people on this board will strongly advise against water features. I have water features in all of my tinc tanks (about 15 or so) and have noticed that all my tincs use the water from time to time. the water features range from 2"x 4" small ponds to 12"x12" ponds with flowing streams. 2" - 4" deep. I even have a matecho that dives in and swims under water like a bull frog. I know that you don't need standing water for these frogs, but all mine seem to appreciate it. Im sure that some may say that my vivs must be too dry, but I mist at least twice a day, and have constant condesation on the glass, which is enough to support algea growth. I would try to keep the flow to a minimum, and make sure that the water areas are easy to escape.
> I would also do a lot of research on the fish you plan on incorporating. I haved read on here that some fish/aquatic frogs are known to carry bacteria and fungus that are deadly to these frogs.
> just my 2 cents.
> mike


I don't think your tanks are dry if you have flowing water. The condensation on the glass shows the high humidity inside the tank. I have a water feature in my pacman frogs viv, because they are not active at all. I dont think you need to do a lot of spraying with a water feature unless your tank is big.


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## Zari (Sep 16, 2011)

tclipse said:


> I wouldn't go that far, that advice usually comes to people who are trying to put them in verts or 12x12x18 zoo meds.... a tank of the size OP is talking about would be just fine with a water feature. That's considerably different from taking a tank footprint that is already just a square foot or less and making 1/3-1/2 of that virtually unusable.
> 
> To the OP- one thing to keep in mind when figuring out the number of frogs to be stocked, is that a ### gallon tank with a large water feature can't comfortably hold as many frogs as the same size tank without one. If that doesn't bother you, go for it.


Yeah I know that's one reason I'm considering taking it down to just one stream and making it a little less "extravagant". 



HiMonster said:


> Mfk rocks!!!


MFK is what got me into fish keeping along with my turtles =D. now its a passion my girlfriend hates


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

Water features are tricky IMHO. We tend to build them for us as most PDF species don't require or use them.

One water feature that I am a big fan of and want to incorporate in to my 90 build is for a seep and soak. Chesney here has them in many of her tanks and every time I step in to her frog room, I find find frogs hanging out in them.

Basically she runs a very small pump to set up a seep/drip wall. The water falls to a floor depression consisting of river stones. Again, I see her frogs in them all of the time. Think froggy shower in a crappy apartment! 

Now to be clear, if you're building for eye appeal, there is nothing wrong with that. I think it's safe to say that my frogs don't care what color my Broms are and yet I chase them.

Terrestrial floor space is king no matter what size build you're doing. Protect it at costs when incorporating water design features. If you decide to go big on a water feature, then select PDF group size based on a calculation of available floor space, versus actual tank size.

My noob 2 cents. Your mileage may vary.


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## HiMonster (Sep 22, 2011)

Zari said:


> Yeah I know that's one reason I'm considering taking it down to just one stream and making it a little less "extravagant".
> 
> 
> MFK is what got me into fish keeping along with my turtles =D. now its a passion my girlfriend hates


YoU too huh? The funny thin is that she bought me the jardini!! Now I'm sure she regrets it dearly.. Haha good stuff!!


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