# Frog Room (Very Pic Heavy)



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Figured I'd create a new thread of pics around the frog room. This isn't a complete list of frogs I have, but I've been testing out my camera (just a standard point and shoot) and this is what I've come away with so far:

R. reticulatus:










FTS:










R. imitator standard:










A. bassleri Sisa:




























R. fantasticus lowland:



















R. variabilis southern:



















FTS:










R. fantasticus Caynarachi Valley:










R. benedicta:










FTS:










O. pumilio Rio Branco:










FTS:










H. valerioi:





































FTS:










Himalayan x ragdoll with D. leucomelas:










I swear he spends more time in the room looking at my frogs than I do....


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## ashb (Dec 9, 2009)

Very nice frog selection. Are the rio brancos producing for you?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

ashb said:


> Very nice frog selection. Are the rio brancos producing for you?


Rios aren't producing at the moment. The FTS on that is _very_ new so with the huge broms in there I'm hoping to start some production shortly


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Congrats on the glass frogs Jake. Always nice to be the first in line. Good luck with them.

Michael


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

it always surprises me to see photos like that one of your Benedicta... to think, that frog is hopping around with potentially $1200 on his back. i'm not saying i'm a frogger for money, but just think, he is carrying around my mortgage for a month if all goes well. pretty weird. i can't wait until everyone gets them doing that so i can pick up a pair for less than a student loan payment.

beautiful frogs btw, love the fantastica. must have them some day.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Rios aren't producing at the moment. The FTS on that is _very_ new so with the huge broms in there I'm hoping to start some production shortly


If they don't go for it soon try lowering the light, or shortening the amount of time per day it's on.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Awesome tank and vivs!!!! My 2 kittens do the samething it's pretty funny to watch. Looks amazing though!


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Beautiful frogs and vivs.....Jealous on the glass frogs bro, ultimate must haves....


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

great frogs!!! love that transport shot of the benedicta!!!


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

For a standard point and shoot camera, I am impressed!! Very nice pictures of the frogs.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

Great pics and awesome frogs! Good job, Jake!


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

I guess Mark finally got the valeroi oow. Get them breeding!


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Awesome pics of some really beautiful frogs. I am waaaaaay jealous of those H. valerioi, been wanting glass frogs since I first saw them at ABG years ago, good luck with them!


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Nice collection and great looking tanks... keep us updated on the rest


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

btcope said:


> beautiful frogs btw, love the fantastica. must have them some day.


The fantastica clade are still my favorite darts.... I was a little nervous when ordering the C. Valleys because from the pictures they looked _very_ similar to the lowlands that I already had, but Mark was making a big deal about them and I trust him so I went with it... totally worth it. The pictures just don't do them justice. Amazing coloration.



ChrisK said:


> If they don't go for it soon try lowering the light, or shortening the amount of time per day it's on.


Thanks for the tip. I'm lighting that 40 gallon vert with three 6500K T8 bulbs trying to give those broms enough light to survive and stay reasonably colored, it's being lit at 12 hour intervals. That middle brom provides enough cover for the lower half of the tank that if they don't like the light I'm hoping they'll have plenty of room for shelter, but if I don't see any success soon I'll drop the cycle to 10 hours, maybe that will work...?



stemcellular said:


> I guess Mark finally got the valeroi oow. Get them breeding!


I think we're going to be seeing more of these coming in August.... I really want to get them breeding, but Mark insists that, while the adults are a very hardy frog, they are some major tricky tadpoles... I'll do what I can.

I was really surprised when I opened the box and saw these guys. I was expecting something closer to the standard green tree frog size. Mark tells me that any remaining growth will be negligible in these guys, though. Now I know what he meant when he said I can just feed fruit flies.... By the way, in some personal conversations I've had people tell me they're shocked that they're as small as a quarter. So, just in case you can't tell, that's not a quarter... it's a dime.



eos said:


> Nice collection and great looking tanks... keep us updated on the rest


I'll do what I can. The frog room is always in some state of transition. That's why I haven't posted FTSs of all the tanks, I'm not planning on using them all forever. I've got some really shy frogs that I"d like to get some pictures of, so I always go in with my camera ready to shoot, but so far no success... if I get anything awesome I'll post them here 

Thanks for looking, guys (gender neutral  )!


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I think we're going to be seeing more of these coming in August.... I really want to get them breeding, but Mark insists that, while the adults are a very hardy frog, they are some major tricky tadpoles... I'll do what I can.
> 
> I was really surprised when I opened the box and saw these guys. I was expecting something closer to the standard green tree frog size. Mark tells me that any remaining growth will be negligible in these guys, though. Now I know what he meant when he said I can just feed fruit flies.... By the way, in some personal conversations I've had people tell me they're shocked that they're as small as a quarter. So, just in case you can't tell, that's not a quarter... it's a dime.



Yeah, I know someone local with them and they are pretty damn cool (and small). Breeding takes time and lots of effort. 

Wait until you see the Peruvian Centrolenids in person. They are incredible.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Forgot one thing:



btcope said:


> it always surprises me to see photos like that one of your Benedicta... to think, that frog is hopping around with potentially $1200 on his back.


If you think that's impressive, you should look again at that Chrome bassleri. That picture was taken when he was carrying 18 tadpoles on his back. When I bought my trio they were going for $275.... Even now at the 150 - 175 range, those 18 tadpoles could turn into quite a bit more than the three the benedicta is carrying 



stemcellular said:


> Yeah, I know someone local with them and they are pretty damn cool (and small). Breeding takes time and lots of effort.
> 
> Wait until you see the Peruvian Centrolenids in person. They are incredible.


I was pretty nervous about caring for these... I don't typically work with treefrogs (I know it's not a true tree frog). I was _sure_ that even though Mark said I could just feed fruit flies I would have to find a way to get crickets... I was wrong.

I'd love to see more glass frogs, but I have a feeling that these will be my only Centrolenids for a long time (I do hope to eventually dive more into them, but considering space and other ventures I doubt if it will happen any time soon).


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## ilovejaden (Jan 6, 2011)

ohh man that tank planted looks sick Jake...I really need to come check out your collection while I'm on my way to the cabin in Cedar...and yeah..the pics really dont do the those justice..really is a gorgeous frog, when you brought mine over I felt like a little kid on xmas lol.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

ilovejaden said:


> ohh man that tank planted looks sick Jake...I really need to come check out your collection while I'm on my way to the cabin in Cedar...and yeah..the pics really dont do the those justice..really is a gorgeous frog, when you brought mine over I felt like a little kid on xmas lol.


I was so excited for the shipment I couldn't get to sleep the night before... fell asleep at 3 AM... woke up (on my own) at 5:30 AM and couldn't get back to sleep.... I felt like a six year old on Christmas Eve as well... the only difference was I was tuckered out _before_ I got to unwrap my gifts (let alone play with them).


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Jake I LOVE that zip tie vine, where'd you score it? Actually that was my favorite FTS among several beautiful tanks and inhabitants. Well done.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

I love your tanks!!! I love the fantastica as well as the retics. I can't figure out which I like more it's just so hard. All your set ups are beautiful!


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

very nice collection man, youve got several things i really want! glad to see the glass frogs coming in, cant wait to get those as well. mind messaging me the price for them? i dont feel like bugging elaine when i dont plan on getting them for a while.

keep the pictures coming, id love to see everything else your working with


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

fleshfrombone said:


> Jake I LOVE that zip tie vine, where'd you score it? Actually that was my favorite FTS among several beautiful tanks and inhabitants. Well done.


I've actually done a few zip ties around the frog room. Just until the broms have enough roots to support them. That huge brom in the middle of the 40 vert is also zip tied. I prefer that to toothpicks, glue, or anything of that sort. The only other method I use for broms is to push the stolon into GS or to drill wood so that I can fit a stolon in.



vivlover10 said:


> I love your tanks!!! I love the fantastica as well as the retics. I can't figure out which I like more it's just so hard. All your set ups are beautiful!


Retics are generally considered fantastica clade. I'm with you, it's usually a toss up... although I generally lean a little more toward retics just because of their size. Definitely a worth while frog 



thedude said:


> very nice collection man, youve got several things i really want! glad to see the glass frogs coming in, cant wait to get those as well. mind messaging me the price for them? i dont feel like bugging elaine when i dont plan on getting them for a while.
> 
> keep the pictures coming, id love to see everything else your working with


Thanks! I'd recommend getting on the list for the valerioi. I'm not the only person who thought they would be a lot bigger than they actually are. Care is remarkably similar to thumbnails, but instead of broms get large leafed plants (they like to hang underneath the leaves to avoid the lights during the day), a standing water feature is a must (they like to lay on glass or leaves directly over a water feature), and they require a little more ventilation (supposedly keeping only 1/4 of your screen open will provide enough ventilation). Super cool frogs, definitely different than the darts I'm used to working with.

Like I said, this isn't quite a comprehensive list of all I've got going on over here, but it _is_ pretty close. The other frogs have just been too shy.... Actually, this is a "best of" compilation of several months of patient (and often frustrating) work. But I'm always on the look out for new awesome pictures, if I end up taking any I'll be sure to post them (I almost forgot to post that standard imitator picture, which would have been unfortunate since I think is my favorite frog picture that I've ever personally taken).


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Thanks for the tip. I'm lighting that 40 gallon vert with three 6500K T8 bulbs trying to give those broms enough light to survive and stay reasonably colored, it's being lit at 12 hour intervals. That middle brom provides enough cover for the lower half of the tank that if they don't like the light I'm hoping they'll have plenty of room for shelter, but if I don't see any success soon I'll drop the cycle to 10 hours, maybe that will work...?



Really all mine are now on ambient room (mostly from the window but not direct) light until about 6pm, then the lights go on until a little after midnight for more than a year now. Much more activity from all of them.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

ChrisK said:


> Really all mine are now on ambient room (mostly from the window but not direct) light until about 6pm, then the lights go on until a little after midnight for more than a year now. Much more activity from all of them.


Gotcha. Right now my frog room is in the basement so that set up wouldn't work for me, but i'll see what I can do about at least adjusting the amount of time the lights ar on if it doesn't work here in the next couple of months.


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

Jake how many valerioi were you able to get? I saw these in a local frogger's collection and thought they were amazing! I'm glad they are coming into the hobby now.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

What size of tank is that you have the valerioi set up in?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Spaff said:


> Jake how many valerioi were you able to get? I saw these in a local frogger's collection and thought they were amazing! I'm glad they are coming into the hobby now.


I got a 1.2 trio. I understood them to be much larger than they are and although valerioi are communal frogs I felt like the tank I had for them would crowd any more than a trio. Turns out I was wrong and would love to add another pair to the mix.



epiphytes etc. said:


> What size of tank is that you have the valerioi set up in?


That is an 18x18x24 exo-terra.


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

The glass frogs I saw were much bigger than that. I'd say similar to a small auratus. Nothing that could fit on a dime though, so I'd say your expectations for a larger frog were warranted. I have the glass frog book. I'll look up the SVL on them in the morning.


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

I just checked in the book and it is mentioned that they are one of the smaller species. They range in size from 23-26 mm, so I guess these guys really are that small.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Some really nice photos.
Anyone else notice the second frog in the variabilis photo?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Reef_Haven said:


> Some really nice photos.
> Anyone else notice the second frog in the variabilis photo?


Funny thing is, this picture was taken after the first variabilis picture, when that female had snuck her way into the center brom axil and blocked out the male down there.... So, three frogs _should_ be in this photo


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## jfehr232 (Apr 13, 2009)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Figured I'd create a new thread of pics around the frog room. This isn't a complete list of frogs I have, but I've been testing out my camera (just a standard point and shoot) and this is what I've come away with so far:
> 
> 
> FTS:



Is this just a lot of carving of the gs? I seen this type of style somewhere else, maybe one of your other threads but I love that style!

Also is that a 18x18x24?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Reef_Haven said:


> Some really nice photos.
> Anyone else notice the second frog in the variabilis photo?


Oh wow... I just decided to blow up that picture (instead of just looking at the thumbnail). That's not a frog... that's a clutch. From a distance it certainly looks like another frog, though 



jfehr232 said:


> Is this just a lot of carving of the gs? I seen this type of style somewhere else, maybe one of your other threads but I love that style!
> 
> Also is that a 18x18x24?


Yes, that's an 18x18x24.

This tank was actually acquired from another local frogger to whom I think you are referring in a trade (I'd never set anything up for treefrogs before and I trust his tank making skills more than I trust my own). He has the username on Dendroboard as Tuckinrim8. It's a pretty brilliant tank. We're both extremely happy with the trades we made.

And to answer your question, yes that's just a lot (A LOT) of carving of the GS foam.


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## davy (Jul 13, 2010)

nice set ups and frogs u got there.
nice sisa's to, i've got six of them now but i don't see them at all. they are about 6 months old.
do you see yours a lot or do they keep shy?


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## dragonsong93 (Jul 7, 2011)

This is awesome! And I like your cat's collar btw


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

davy said:


> nice set ups and frogs u got there.
> nice sisa's to, i've got six of them now but i don't see them at all. they are about 6 months old.
> do you see yours a lot or do they keep shy?


My Sisa were incredibly shy for about fourteen months. Then I added a male and added a lot more leaf litter. Now the male is really quite bold. He likes to perch himself on a ledge about half way up the vivarium (24 inches high) and call. However, when breeding occurs the male will vanish from sight and stop calling until he's successfully transported his tadpoles. The females are more shy than the male, but since breeding has started to occur they are out with much greater frequency. I don't know what your setup is like, but I'd consider adding more leaf litter, adding some very broad leafed plants, or placing them in a new vivarium with some increased height (they really do use all of the vert space I provide for them).



dragonsong93 said:


> This is awesome! And I like your cat's collar btw


My brother gave me so much crap for that collar, but Schiz doesn't mind it and I think it's awesome


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## davy (Jul 13, 2010)

hi, 
most people tell me that they are very shy till they start calling and breeding. i just don't like to have such a large tank and never see a frog. the only time i see them is when the lights almost go out.
here's my topic about their tank
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/67898-my-jungle.html

another question do you think that juvinile frogs can grow up in the same tank as their parents?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

davy said:


> hi,
> most people tell me that they are very shy till they start calling and breeding. i just don't like to have such a large tank and never see a frog. the only time i see them is when the lights almost go out.
> here's my topic about their tank
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/67898-my-jungle.html
> ...


80 gallons is a pretty small tank for a mixed tank, but for a group of bassleri I imagine it would be fine. It doesn't look like you've had them for a very long time, though. The shyness will abate as long as you give them plenty of time, don't go digging around in their viv, and provide plenty of leaf litter.

Everything I know about bassleri (as little as that may be) suggests that it would be rather difficult to raise tadpoles in-viv. Bassleri tads seem to be remarkably sensitive to nitrates and nitrites, so a filter would be necessary, also probably some plants that thrive on nitrogen like duckweed. I imagine it would require a very large water feature, one that has quite a bit of circulation. And all of that is just to get the tadpoles out of the water. Then you have to be concerned with stressors that come from being with much larger frogs (bassleri don't appear to me to be like oophaga, which seem to thrive when raised with parents). Even if you were to set up the right conditions for tadpoles to be raised in-viv, I don't imagine you would get the same kind of production as you would if you were to raise them outside of the viv.

It's much easier to meet the needs of the tads outside the viv. Set up a ten gallon tank with a filter, some duckweed and/or java moss, and provide cool temperatures (upper sixties to very low seventies) and I suspect you'll have much more success.


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## davy (Jul 13, 2010)

my tank isn't a mixed tank anymore. it only houses the sisa's. since they are juviniles i hope to keep a 3 or 4 those frogs for this tank.
no i havent opend the tank except for feeding but even when i trow food in the tank i don't see the frogs at all. 
at night when i flash in the tank with a light i see three or four frogs under plants or in bromelia's.

Yeah i'm keeping the tads seperatly but the question is can small frogs about a month on land be kept together with the parents in a tank?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

davy said:


> my tank isn't a mixed tank anymore. it only houses the sisa's. since they are juviniles i hope to keep a 3 or 4 those frogs for this tank.
> no i havent opend the tank except for feeding but even when i trow food in the tank i don't see the frogs at all.
> at night when i flash in the tank with a light i see three or four frogs under plants or in bromelia's.
> 
> Yeah i'm keeping the tads seperatly but the question is can small frogs about a month on land be kept together with the parents in a tank?


I'm afraid I've never tried raising tads separately and reintroduing froglets to the parent tank, so I can't give you any kind of empirical answer. The only way I can respond to that question is: I would imagine that reintroducing offspring to the viv would be no different than introducing froglets from a different line to the viv.... So I wouldn't try it.


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## Golden State Mantellas (Mar 12, 2011)

BEAUTIFUL glass frog! Love the tads and the vivs!


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## CVB (May 30, 2011)

Excellent photos!


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

Great shots Jake! That Transport shot is pretty epic brother! Some of those Vivs look kinda familiar ..


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Tuckinrim8 said:


> Great shots Jake! That Transport shot is pretty epic brother! Some of those Vivs look kinda familiar ..


I've got a couple tanks that should look pretty familiar. I don't know what I'm going to do when I move (whenever that may be) and you're not around to provide housing for those frog purchases that are made impulsively without any forethought


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I thought this was a cool photo. Basically, I found one of my H. valerioi sleeping underneath one of my large leaves, I shined a backlight on him and took a picture from atop the leaf:


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Couple new pictures:

Who says tree frogs don't use broms?










I lifted up a leaf and found all three valerioi. Figured I'd try to take a shot of the sexual dimorphism.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Call me crazy, but those actually may be my favorite of the frogs that you have. Love the brom shot.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

How are the rio broncos doing?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

ChrisK said:


> How are the rio broncos doing?


I had some local froggers over here who noticed that in the two hours they spent over here the female went down to the bottom, up to the calling male, and down to the bottom and then repeated the process about three times in the two hours that they were here.... They figure it's feeding behavior, but I have yet to see the tadpoles....


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## phytotelmata (Oct 20, 2011)

Your H. valerioi are gorgeous. How active are they?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

phytotelmata said:


> Your H. valerioi are gorgeous. How active are they?


During the day? Not at all. When the lights go off they become extremely active. I found that out when I temporarily attached a fogger to the tank and let the humidity escalate to 100%. When I came into the room the next morning and saw the glass fogged up I saw tons of footprints all over the front doors. I see them regularly immediately after the lights go off and as late as twenty minutes after the lights turn on.


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## phytotelmata (Oct 20, 2011)

Haha, I meant at night. I'm just curious about their behavior in captivity. They are awesome frogs, but wanted to know if they make good vivarium inhabitants (entertaining) or if they are kind of boring? The reason I've always liked dart frogs so much is because they are so active.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

phytotelmata said:


> Haha, I meant at night. I'm just curious about their behavior in captivity. They are awesome frogs, but wanted to know if they make good vivarium inhabitants (entertaining) or if they are kind of boring? The reason I've always liked dart frogs so much is because they are so active.


Well... they're nocturnal. And they're VERY nocturnal. They don't come out for me unless it is VERY dark. And they're a bit shy. If you shine a light on them for too long after they've come out they start seeking shelter. So in that sense, no they're not particularly good vivarium inhabitants. However, they are so obscure to me coming from a dart background that every little nuance that I see is so incredibly entertaining. So I love them.


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## onetank (Nov 2, 2011)

Great collection and great pics.


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## adam483t (Sep 19, 2011)

Awesome pictures and frogs! They all look great.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks all...


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## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

Where did you get your glass frogs from? They are SO cool!


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

brinkerh420 said:


> Where did you get your glass frogs from? They are SO cool!


I thought I'd mentioned earlier in this thread, but maybe not. I received my valerioi from Understory Enterprises....


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Very cool with the glass frogs. Have you ever tried observing them after lights go out with a red light? I've heard that they can't see the red light, so you can watch them at night, but I'm not sure if it really works or not with them. It worked when I kept RETF's at least. Sorry if I missed this, but what do you feed them? Small crickets, fruit flies, or something else?
Thanks,
Bryan


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Very cool with the glass frogs. Have you ever tried observing them after lights go out with a red light? I've heard that they can't see the red light, so you can watch them at night, but I'm not sure if it really works or not with them. It worked when I kept RETF's at least. Sorry if I missed this, but what do you feed them? Small crickets, fruit flies, or something else?
> Thanks,
> Bryan


I've heard the same thing. If it's true maybe you could set up a red fluorescent for night time. 

Bryan, they're small enough to eat fruit flies.


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## Bonobo (Jun 7, 2009)

Beautiful collection man! Do you have any more pictures of the Rio Branco?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Very cool with the glass frogs. Have you ever tried observing them after lights go out with a red light? I've heard that they can't see the red light, so you can watch them at night, but I'm not sure if it really works or not with them. It worked when I kept RETF's at least. Sorry if I missed this, but what do you feed them? Small crickets, fruit flies, or something else?
> Thanks,
> Bryan


They really are fun even without the night light 

Diet really isn't different than dart frogs. I understand that tree frogs take significantly larger morsels than darts consider sizes, but these frogs are remarkably small. The male valerioi competes with my reticulatus as my smallest frog (and I deal primarily in thumbs). Due to their large mouths they _can_ take hydei, buzzati, termites, all those good larger feeders that we feed our darts, but they are on a primary diet of melanogasters (and according to my correspondence with Mark Pepper, becoming rapidly overweight on such a diet  )



Bonobo said:


> Beautiful collection man! Do you have any more pictures of the Rio Branco?


I'll look through my archives to see if I can find some more photos of these frogs for you. The photo I have on here is of the male. The female is actually really cool. She has white legs - kind of has a hint of the coloration found on white-footed sylvaticus.


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## velvety14u (Jul 13, 2011)

Just such awesome lovely frogs ...thanks for the pics ...they are lovely...and congrats on the glass frogs ...how I'd love to own some...


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

I just received some of the Valerioi yesterday and I have to admit they are stunning frogs. How do you tell your males from females. Did you just observe the calling, or is there a physical difference?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

flapjax3000 said:


> I just received some of the Valerioi yesterday and I have to admit they are stunning frogs. How do you tell your males from females. Did you just observe the calling, or is there a physical difference?


This is actually the second time I've been asked this question, although I tried to answer it earlier in the thread:










When they reach maturity even the untrained eye can tell the two females from the one male


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