# Help me sex my Oyapocks :) Pic heavy



## Moriko

Hi all. I was hoping to get some help sexing my oyapocks. I bought them as a probable pair, but now I'm starting to wonder if it is two females. 


Probable Female pics











Probable Male pics











Both together




I know some of these aren't the best quality, but it is honestly the best that I could get over the past few days. The reason I'm thinking it may be 2 females is that the smaller one seems stressed out and I'm not seeing the heart shape to the pads. I've never tried sexing frogs though so I'd love to hear your opinions. 

Thanks in advance


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## whitethumb

its really hard to tell.. it kind of looks like a pair to me. maybe somebody else will chime in


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## Moriko

whitethumb said:


> its really hard to tell.. it kind of looks like a pair to me. maybe somebody else will chime in


Thanks, I hope you are right! I just don't want to sit around waiting for two females to attempt to breed lol. 

Oh, and to add to the information, they are both around a year old.


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## frog dude

Body shape wise, I'd say 1.1. My male azureus has toe pads almost exactly like the probable male oyapock, and very similar body shape. Very pretty, btw!


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## Moriko

frog dude said:


> Body shape wise, I'd say 1.1. My male azureus has toe pads almost exactly like the probable male oyapock, and very similar body shape. Very pretty, btw!


Thank you! Oyapocks are one of my favorite frogs, and possibly favorite tinc. I love the color contrast. I'm really surprised they aren't more popular in the hobby.

It's reassuring to hear that your azureus has similar toe pads. I appreciate the help.


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## Dave II

Your guesses look right to me


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## Moriko

I'm going to hope with 3 out of 3 guessing the same way that I have a pair. 

I'm happy to say that the probable male decided to eat today. That is the first time I've seen that since getting them. I hope that it means the stress level is going down. 

Thanks for your help everyone. I appreciate it!


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## frogfreak

Tonya, I think your instincts may be right.

I'm guessing two females.


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## Moriko

frogfreak said:


> Tonya, I think your instincts may be right.
> 
> I'm guessing two females.



May I ask why you think so? I'm concerned because of the similarities in the back arch. I'm wondering if your thoughts are based on the same thing, or if I'm possibly missing something else that I may be able to check on.


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## frogfreak

Moriko said:


> May I ask why you think so? I'm concerned because of the similarities in the back arch. I'm wondering if your thoughts are based on the same thing, or if I'm possibly missing something else that I may be able to check on.


Yes, the prominent arches and the long narrow toes. 

Generally, the arch on a male starts slightly lower in the back than a female, as well.


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## Moriko

frogfreak said:


> Yes, the prominent arches and the long narrow toes.
> 
> Generally, the arch on a male starts slightly lower in the back than a female, as well.


Well, not exactly what I wanted to hear. I was hoping to have a lot of unanimous opinions. I suppose I should keep a very close eye on them. Worst case scenario is that if they are in fact both females, I will need to find males to pair them off with lol. 

Thanks for the help!


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## frogfreak

Moriko said:


> Well, not exactly what I wanted to hear. I was hoping to have a lot of unanimous opinions. I suppose I should keep a very close eye on them. Worst case scenario is that if they are in fact both females, I will need to find males to pair them off with lol.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


You're welcome. I'd give them 4-5 more months to mature. A lot can change in that time frame. The arches can become even more prominent in females and of course, in males, they will develop the heart shaped toe pad. Sometimes, they can fool you though. It's happened to me a few times. It's not always obvious whether they're male or female until you see courting. lol


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## frog dude

My proven male azureus is almost 3 years now and still has small toe pads, about the size of the probable male oyapock, and these oyapocks look exactly like my pair when the were around a year old. I still say a pair. Although, I do actually think, no matter how much they look like a pair now, they still might change body shape wise, like Glenn said. As of their age and body shape right now, like it is currently, I say a pair.


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## Julio

who did you acquire these from? they dont' look like your typical oyapack


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## jdooley195

Here's a pair at about 11 months old...as with most tincs (IME), the male grew faster than the female until about 16-18 months...around that point the female became longer and is still fatter. 

Hope this helps!




But like others said, give it time, if they've been growing up together they more than likely wont fight for a while if at all. The first pic of your probable male, looks male to me


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## jdooley195

Julio said:


> who did you acquire these from? they dont' look like your typical oyapack


I was thinking the same...unique patterns


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## Julio

yea, look like some sort of cross breed between morphs


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## billschwinn

I think you have 2 females , however your pics , if better pics could be posted it could easily change the guesses on sexes.I based mine opinion on toes, body type, and an observation that I and a few others have made over the years that male oyapoks seem to have more white, brighter white, and more defined white wristbands.You can see this in the other pair posted in this thread.


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## frogfreak

Julio said:


> yea, look like some sort of cross breed between morphs


Julio, what makes you think that? I don't see anything Non-Oyapok about them.


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## Julio

For starters the racing stripes are very thin, look at the pics jdooley posted. That is what oyapock usually look like and I understand there exceptions but also the legs don't have the usual speck lying as well.


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## frogfreak

Julio said:


> For starters the racing stripes are very thin, look at the pics jdooley posted. That is what oyapock usually look like and I understand there exceptions but also the legs don't have the usual speck lying as well.


Hmmm, here's an old shot of one of mine. The bands are a bit narrower too.


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## Julio

Those are not nearly as narrow as the ones in question here, but like I said there are variations, so they could just have turned differently


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## frogfreak

Julio said:


> Those are not nearly as narrow as the ones in question here, but like I said there are variations, so they could just have turned differently


Yeah, they're kinda in between the two. I'll check out some froglets.


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## Moriko

Julio said:


> who did you acquire these from? they dont' look like your typical oyapack


I don't know that I can post that here. I was told that they are Nabors line and I will PM you with the seller. 



jdooley195 said:


> Here's a pair at about 11 months old...as with most tincs (IME), the male grew faster than the female until about 16-18 months...around that point the female became longer and is still fatter.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But like others said, give it time, if they've been growing up together they more than likely wont fight for a while if at all. The first pic of your probable male, looks male to me


Well, I was told that they are a year old and the probable female is noticeably larger than the probable male at this point. 

I've heard of many frogs starting to fight in a new environment, so that is my only concern with that issue.


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## Moriko

billschwinn said:


> I think you have 2 females , however your pics , if better pics could be posted it could easily change the guesses on sexes.I based mine opinion on toes, body type, and an observation that I and a few others have made over the years that male oyapoks seem to have more white, brighter white, and more defined white wristbands.You can see this in the other pair posted in this thread.


I wish I could get more detailed pics. I will try again in the morning. I don't have any question about the probable female being a female, and she is the one that is usually out and about. It is much more difficult to get a decent pic of the other. I will post it on here when I'm able to manage it, which is hopefully soon.


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## Moriko

I just PM'd the seller to see what information I could get. I also emailed Patrick Nabors to ask a few questions about the frogs/pics as well. 

Hopefully between the two of them I'll hear something back soon and be able to verify that they are in fact oyapock. I haven't had any concerns with that myself.. but I want to take all precautions with any frogs that I may end up breeding in the future.


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## frogmanchu

Looks like a pair. Ill keep my fingers crossed for you. If indeed it is a pair ill be waiting for froglets lmao! Congrats on beautiful oyapoks.

Also try to play back a recording of the oyapok call. It helped me with my luecs and got the male to start calling. I did it twice a week for a minute or two for about a month and the rest was history

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


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## volcano23000

They look exactly like mine so unless I got a cross too....


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## frog dude

volcano23000 said:


> They look exactly like mine so unless I got a cross too....


Aren't yours Nabors line too?


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## frogmanchu

Here a few pics of one of my oyapoks I had a year ago. Its 6-7 months ootw. Small bands also. Trusr your breeder. This where nabors if I'm not mistaken. I wish chesney still had these lol.


















Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


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## Moriko

Sorry everyone. I forgot about this thread due to some other things going on.

Anyways, wanted to add that I spoke to the seller as well as Patrick Nabors. There is no question to the fact that they are Oyapock. I was concerned with what a couple of you were saying.. Patrick was kind enough to return my email to him and wasn't sure why anyone here would question them. That was reassuring to say the least. 

I still am not positive on the sex.. but snapped a couple more bad quality pics today that I'm going to try and upload if anyone is willing to give them a glance as well


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## Moriko

Here are some more pics if anyone can help.

I may just have to wait it out and see lol


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## Julio

looks like 2 males


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## Moriko

Julio said:


> looks like 2 males


I wouldn't be nearly as stressed about two males as I would two females.. so if they aren't a pair that would be the next best thing IMO.


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## Julio

well females wont fight unless there is a male present, or if they were not raised together.


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## Moriko

I was under the impression that most female tincs just became aggressive with each other when they hit sexual maturity. These frogs were raised together, but I also worried about the change to new surroundings. I'm not sure how that works. I've heard of frogs that were friendly with each other becoming aggressive when moved to a new tank.

I read so much on these forums that it starts to get confusing after a while. Sometimes when educating myself I end up even worse off lol.


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## Julio

yes, they are moved to a diff tank, they can show a little agression, but males are not as aggressive as females are, so they will be fine, just introduce them together at the same time


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## jdooley195

Based on those last pics I still think your probable male is male...and the probable female is eh...either on the slender side or a male...it's hard for me to see the pads together...is "she" really as big in comparison to the male as the pictures show?


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## Moriko

jdooley195 said:


> Based on those last pics I still think your probable male is male...and the probable female is eh...either on the slender side or a male...it's hard for me to see the pads together...is "she" really as big in comparison to the male as the pictures show?


Yes, there is a definite size difference. I've started daily feedings now that the stress from shipping has settled down. I plan on continuing that until I see a healthy weight. The probable female has become a veracious eater so I'm assuming it won't take long.


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## jdooley195

You may have a pair... Plump 'em up! See what shapes they take 

When a sub-adult to adult tinc is bigger/longer and has smaller pads than its counter part of the same age...its usually a female..I'm sure you knew that though


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## volcano23000

frog dude said:


> Aren't yours Nabors line too?


Yes, according to the seller, whom I trust.

Moriko, beautiful frogs, definately my top ten in dart frogs. I say don't worry about sex yet. Keep a spare tank handy in case off aggression. Then just wait. Also, listen very closely for calling. It is quiet, but audible. Best of luck!!!


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## Moriko

Will definitely plump them up a bit. The tank is seeded very well with springtails and with the daily feedings I'm hoping to see a change in a few weeks. 

I have heard the calling on YouTube and it is very low. The tank sits very close to me most of the day, so if there is any calling I should be able to catch the calling male in time. 

I remember coming across a site with clips of most dart frogs and their calls. I can't find it now that I need it. If anyone has an idea of the site I'm talking about could you please post it or PM me? I would like to try to play it like suggested in an earlier post to see if I notice any behaviors. 

Other than that, I appreciate everyone's help. Although I'm still not positive, I don't mind playing the 'wait and see' game. Either way I really enjoy them regardless if they are a pair or not


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## WendySHall

Hi Tonya! If you're talking about the MistKing site, here is a link (look about halfway down the page)...
MistKing Misting Systems by Jungle Hobbies Ltd

Personally, I prefer some that I found on YouTube. Here are the best two I have for Tincs...









Maybe you'll have better luck than the many times I tried them. For me...the calls never work for the Tincs. 

Here's to hoping you have a pair! They're beautiful frogs!


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## Moriko

Thanks Wendy! Mistaking was the site I had visited. I've been trying to remember it for weeks. 

So all tincs have the same call? I've been driving myself crazy trying to find a clear oyapock call.


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## WendySHall

Yeah...at least to me they all sound the same. Some are louder, some are quieter, some call more, some call less, some call longer, some call shorter...but they all seem to be that same buzzing noise. So, if it's gonna work, I would think any Tinc call will do.


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## Moriko

Well, sounds pretty logical to me lol. I'll give it a shot in the morning and see if I notice any different behaviors. 

Thanks again!


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## volcano23000

Mine sound like an old door creaking.


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