# 13 watt LEDs bulbs



## NM Crawler (Jan 23, 2012)

Morning guys, is anyone running Josh's frogs 13 watt LEDs screw in bulbs? Wondering how they compare to other LEDs on the market. Thanks


David


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

NM Crawler said:


> Morning guys, is anyone running Josh's frogs 13 watt LEDs screw in bulbs? Wondering how they compare to other LEDs on the market. Thanks
> 
> 
> David


The Jungle Dawns or the cheaper josh's brand? ....I run some jungle dawns...love em. The mixed spectrum leds just give you better color when viewing (IMO) and better spectrums for growing plants (pretty much fact).

No need to mix bulbs for better overall spectrum which typically causes half your viv to look white/bluer on one side, reddish/yellow/orange on the other unless you have 3-4+ bulbs over each tank so you can alternate the bulb spectrums in each socket to balance out the color better (Still not as pleasant to look at IMO as all jungle dawn). 

I think If you are serious about good lighting you go jungle dawn...I have a cheaper version that is just the straight 6500k like the josh's brand and it is good...I'd rather run it then a CFL bulb...but I'd rather run jungle dawns then the other led stick bulb I have. IMO since these bulbs last so long it is worth the investment, especially if you use fixtures raised off the glass a little and decent airflow, or even cooling fans to prolong their life. You're going to be looking at that light a long time...might as well be the best


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I have had FANTASTIC plant growth with the Jungle Dawn 13w


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

I sent you a pm.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm very pleased with my 13w Jungle Dawns. The mixed spectrum LEDs that the Jungle Dawns have, give me a beautiful, well balanced spectrum. I'm able to use them as a stand alone lighting system. Great growth, and pleasing to the eye. The reason I really bought them, though, was to combat the heat in my frog room. With every new tank, my temperature was rising. They made a big difference. I've been running a dozen of them for a little under a year now. With the two additional racks I'm building, I didn't even consider anything different. I just bought 17 more.


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## NM Crawler (Jan 23, 2012)

Yes Dave I was looking @ the joshs brand LEDs. It Was more out of curiousity with the joshs frogs bulbs more than anything . Ill be lighting a rack with 21 Vivs. I've seen the jungle dawns @ Doug's (ZookeeperDoug) house last week they look good with 2 bulbs on a 18x18x24. Plants growth and broms had nice color on them. Heat is a huge deal As I'm running t-5/t-8 @ the moment and they are hotter than hell and im only lighting 14 vivs @ the moment. I was going to be running the custom led light bars Todd had but now that they have been discountined I was looking @ other options. Needing 42 led bulbs and side mounts is a big investment. I thought I'd ask before pulling the trigger on the jungle dawns. Thanks for the replys guys. 

David



Dendro Dave said:


> The Jungle Dawns or the cheaper josh's brand? ....I run some jungle dawns...love em. The mixed spectrum leds just give you better color when viewing (IMO) and better spectrums for growing plants (pretty much fact).
> 
> No need to mix bulbs for better overall spectrum which typically causes half your viv to look white/bluer on one side, reddish/yellow/orange on the other unless you have 3-4+ bulbs over each tank so you can alternate the bulb spectrums in each socket to balance out the color better (Still not as pleasant to look at IMO as all jungle dawn).
> 
> I think If you are serious about good lighting you go jungle dawn...I have a cheaper version that is just the straight 6500k like the josh's brand and it is good...I'd rather run it then a CFL bulb...but I'd rather run jungle dawns then the other led stick bulb I have. IMO since these bulbs last so long it is worth the investment, especially if you use fixtures raised off the glass a little and decent airflow, or even cooling fans to prolong their life. You're going to be looking at that light a long time...might as well be the best





Pumilo said:


> I'm very pleased with my 13w Jungle Dawns. The mixed spectrum LEDs that the Jungle Dawns have, give me a beautiful, well balanced spectrum. I'm able to use them as a stand alone lighting system. Great growth, and pleasing to the eye. The reason I really bought them, though, was to combat the heat in my frog room. With every new tank, my temperature was rising. They made a big difference. I've been running a dozen of them for a little under a year now. With the two additional racks I'm building, I didn't even consider anything different. I just bought 17 more.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I agree, Jungle Dawns are the way to go. You will get excellent plant growth and color and I am yet to talk to anyone who is using that this is not happy with how they are performing!


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Re: 13 watt LEDs bulbs- LETS HAVE AN LED SHOW-DOWN!*

52 5050 SMD Diode Jungle Dawns® are 11 watt...
The 60 diodes = 13 watts.

So I always am amused and wonder if these Jungle Dawn® knock offs are overstating their true power and light out-put to make them look more attractive if the only contain 52 (or less) 5050 smd diodes? 
 

Or....
do they just use a less efficient (cheaper?) internal driver that ends up just creating more heat with the added electricity they claim to draw and give less light?


I have tested many , many LEDs and these are the questions I have about others claims.


lol

Anyway,
I would be happy to donate a 13w Jungle Dawn® to anyone that wants to do a side by side comparison with a knock off....
(since if I do it... and test them, some might say I would be too bias.)

But if a non bias interested party wants to,
then maybe someone selling a knock off will donate one to them too to do a LED Show-down!

How exciting! 

A Show Down!

Any takers??


Cheers!
Todd 

PS.

The Jungle Dawns® are all laser imprinted at the factory with either the "TM" symbol or now the NEW "®" symbol.... 
_because they have been awarded the registered trademark by the US government._
Reg. # 4,342,581
And they are made with RoHS and CE compliant components.
RoHS
Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CE
CE marking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are also backed by LightYourReptiles.com's product liability insurance.
(details on request.)
*I seriously wonder if any KNock off vendor has product liability insurance on what they are selling???*

This is how one knows they are the "real deal"... and not some "Pseudo Dawn" ha ha 

Plus it is not unknown for Chinese factory's to try and sell (dump?) their "seconds" on unknowing western buyers. (!)

Cheers.


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## NM Crawler (Jan 23, 2012)

Todd by you carrying product liability insurance says a lot about you and your company. As a business owner I know how expensive it is to do business and to pay for crazy amount of insurance and bonds you need to cover your self and your customer. Good looking out, it's a no brainier what lights I'm going to be running. Thanks again guy's


David


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Since I'm the only one selling what would be considered "knock offs" I guess the statement above is directed to me. I was'nt trying to step on any toes, nor have I bad mouth JD. I haven't made a public statement about the "Real" light lol. Maybe if I were a little younger I would feed into this, but its no big deal. I would just say this, the liability insurance is cool you have a legit business, so why not have that. I just seen an alternative. Smart man I must say for getting a light that points straight down, you deserve credit for that. The lights I've sold are bright people were blinded and impressed. 

IT'S ONE THING TO CREATE SOMETHING, AND ANOTHER THING TO MAKE A MODIFCATION....


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

You arent the only one with a knock off Bradley... and I think Todd was more so making a point that he has put a lot of work into his lights, has a lot invested, and wants people to realize what he has done and what he has put into them. 
I will also add just because a light is bright enough to blind someone, doesnt mean it is good for plants. Not saying that your lights arent good, dont work, etc, just saying that brightness as judged by the human eye doesnt really mean it will be good for plants. 
In the end everyone can make their own choice on what they want to purchase. America was built on competition and it helps to drive the economy. I have a business that competes with others, given plants are slightly different since they are basically the exact same. Just realize Todd is just defending his product, just like you would, and I dont think you should take it as being targeted at you personally, but at your product, yes.


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## dallas green and gold (Jan 30, 2013)

I just git some of the gro green 13 watt they are not quite as hot and a little dimmer giveing a more jungle feel I like the visual effect have had excelent growth in some plants I just transplanted in there I have the original jungle dawn from josh s frogs they are very bright but the vallast gets super hot and I had over heating issues

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

dallas green and gold said:


> I just git some of the gro green 13 watt they are not quite as hot and a little dimmer giveing a more jungle feel I like the visual effect have had excelent growth in some plants I just transplanted in there I have the original jungle dawn from josh s frogs they are very bright but the vallast gets super hot and I had over heating issues
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


The reason they were warmer and brighter is that Jungle Dawns® REALLY ARE 13 watts.... of pure, broad spectrum 6.5-ish Kelvin LED Light!


You could have used 11 or 9 watt Jungle Dawns® if a TRUE 13 Watt LED was giving you too much heat. Oh well. it is what it is. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What sort of hood/ fixture do you have them in?

With ANY side mount screw in, if you have an exo hood, simply remove the metal reflectors from inside (they just unscrew) and then the warmer air (through natural convection) can rise up and out of the slots on the top better.

When using the smaller zoo med hoods, definatly do NOT sit them right down on glass, raise them up at least 1/4 so air can get to the lights.

*THIS IS NOT JUST FOR JUNGLE DAWN®, BUT ANY LED PRODUCT.*

Heat is Bad for leds and the more airflow around them the better.
Heat build-up will shorten the life of any LED significantly.

Also:
Do NOT set any LED down on glass a glass top with no airflow under it.
Not any LED bar, spotlight, Jungle Dawn® or anything LED.

I find more people do that and ruin LEDs faster than anything else.

*BTW 
Here are the new instructions for using JD's, its basically common sense stuff:*

Jungle Dawn™ LED Vivarium Lighting
Congratulations on your purchase of the highest quality vivarium LED bulb on the market!
Here are a couple of things to know when installing your new LED bulb. 
Please review all these instructions before proceeding.
IMPORTANT
The LED bulbs have a 350 degree range of motion in the swivel base so they can be turned and adjusted once installed.
This is to ensure the bulb can be positioned to point downward, so the LED diode array will give the enclosure as much light as possible.
**Never force the bulb beyond the pivot point stop. **
Forcing the bulb to turn past the built in “stop” could permanently damage the unit.
Installation Procedure
**Ensure the light socket switch is in the “Off” position, or unplug the fixture before proceeding. **
1.
To install, gently screw the LED unit into the light socket. 
Do not use force.
2.
Once the bulb is screwed clockwise into the fixture all the way so it will light, it may be necessary to gently adjust it by turning the unit backwards.
This is where the base that allows the unit to rotate comes into use. 
By gently rotating the unit counter clockwise, without unscrewing it from the socket; you can adjust the LED diode array to face downward into the enclosure. 
3.
If the natural range of motion of the swivel base will not allow it turn far enough so the LED array points downward, try unscrewing the bulb very slightly to change the angle.
It is ok if the LED unit is slightly loose in the socket, just as long as it is in the socket far enough to make contact to light.
Cooling and Proper Ventilation
These lights are designed to work in fixtures designed with some ventilation so that the LED unit will be able to dissipate heat properly.
Open socket fixtures, vivarium hoods with vent slots or incandescent aquarium lights that have venting slots or holes in them are all good choices.
Please make sure all hoods or strip lights are raised up off a solid glass top at least 1/4 – 1/3 of an inch, (4mm - 8mm) so that air can circulate under and up through the fixture.
This is to allow for the natural air convection so heat can rise up and out of the fixture.
100% Totally enclosed fixtures are not recommended. 
This is because totally enclosed fixtures do not allow for air flow.
Lack of air flow can result in excessive heat build-up inside the light fixture.
Excessive heat buildup can result in a shortened life-span of your Jungle Dawn™ LED unit. 
Water and Moisture
While Jungle Dawn™ LED units are resistant to the levels of humidity usually associated with terrariums and vivariums, they are not submersible or waterproof.
Therefore, as with any electrical appliance, care should be taken when using them in wet environments or over open water. 
Failure to use caution when using any form of electrical lighting over vivariums or aquariums can result in electrocution. 
In vivariums with misting systems, please remember to always position all electrical components safely away from contact with water spray and mist.
Thank you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cheers!
Todd


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

B-NICE said:


> Since I'm the only one selling what would be considered "knock offs" I guess the statement above is directed to me. I was'nt trying to step on any toes, nor have I bad mouth JD. I haven't made a public statement about the "Real" light lol. Maybe if I were a little younger I would feed into this, but its no big deal. I would just say this, the liability insurance is cool you have a legit business, so why not have that. I just seen an alternative. Smart man I must say for getting a light that points straight down, you deserve credit for that. The lights I've sold are bright people were blinded and impressed.
> 
> IT'S ONE THING TO CREATE SOMETHING, AND ANOTHER THING TO MAKE A MODIFCATION....


I think you're making this more then it was...

Todd is just going over some of the selling points of his lights and asking some valid questions about other brands...and there are others like Josh's frogs selling similar lights and/or jungle dawn (Josh's has both). So I don't think you're being singled out.

I've got JD's and some of the 6500k only no name China lights and both are good...the cheaper ones work. Frankly I'd rather use those at least instead of spiral cfls, but I like the JD a lot more. 

I don't know if the no names will hold up as well...Even if they do, for me the mixed spectrum LEDs give better light for growing and flowering plants, and all the colors in the viv just look better IMO... and you're supporting a sponsor who is awesome to deal with. 

So if you are serious about having some of the best light for plant growth/flowering, and the general look of your display it is worth the extra money if you can afford it (IMO)...and again, you are supporting a sponsor...which is always nice  

I think Todd will likely help you out if you get a bad bulb, or something goes wrong too, where dealing with someone else, or China wholesalers it may be more of an ordeal to get your problem fixed. 

Also a lot of the China stuff can take a month to get here...and then if they send the wrong stuff (and I know from experience they do occasionally) it is a real hassle to get it fixed. B-Nice is domestic so may not have that trouble or shipping delay with him...and I assume he'll do whatever he can to help out a customer too. 

Todd might think it is a Travesty of justice  ...but there is no law that says you can't mix JD's and no names on the same tank. Then at least you are getting some benefit from the better spectrums and color reproduction of JD's, but saving a little money on some of the bulbs while still getting adequate results. Personally though after using both, my plan once I have a job is to slowly upgrade to all JD's


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

As stated before, it's really not a big deal. I'm not going to bad mouth any lights out there. I'm not mad at all, I just addressed the statement. I really wasn't even thinking about Josh's LEDs, because I know what I put an ad out for. There are ways you go about things, to call something a "Knock Off" isn't right. As stated before, it's not like someone stole the idea for the light. The light has existed, it was just modified.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: 13 watt LEDs bulbs- LETS HAVE AN LED SHOW-DOWN!*



Venutus1 said:


> 52 5050 SMD Diode Jungle Dawns® are 11 watt...
> The 60 diodes = 13 watts.
> 
> So I always am amused and wonder if these Jungle Dawn® knock offs are overstating their true power and light out-put to make them look more attractive if the only contain 52 (or less) 5050 smd diodes?
> ...



Todd,sent you a pm,I'll do an unbiased comparison showdown and post results if you would like to do it.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

B-NICE said:


> As stated before, it's really not a big deal. I'm not going to bad mouth any lights out there. I'm not mad at all, I just addressed the statement. I really wasn't even thinking about Josh's LEDs, because I know what I put an ad out for. There are ways you go about things, to call something a "Knock Off" isn't right. As stated before, it's not like someone stole the idea for the light. The light has existed, it was just modified.


Well that is good...it shouldn't be a big deal since he was just going over some selling points and asking valid questions about other lights, and this whole *thread was started about Josh's lights* JD or off brand led stick lights.

I wouldn't Take "knock off" to personal... Todd believes he has a superior product, and I think most of us that have used them or even both agree.

*But...*
*I think some of the "knock off" mentality comes from the fact that JD and LYR have been a presence here on the forum for quite some time and brought a lot of attention to this style of bulb. *

I think it was actually me back in 2010  that first suggested this style LED on this forum, but *Todd was the one who really brought this style of light into the hobby* and at the same time improved it significantly...

So now I think it just *"feels" *like anything similar but not JD we talk about here is kinda like a "knock off", even if that isn't technically accurate, since yes the straight warm and/or cool versions that didn't have mixed LEDs actually did come first.


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Lets not be too hard on B-Nice...

at least he is not trying to blatantly rip off the name to build their sales based on confusion with the LightYourReptiles.com product...
Trying to tap into the momentum that Jungle Dawn® has got by receiving excellent reviews.... (and is the only one with mixed diodes and the broadest spectrum.)


http://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=jungle+dawn+led+vivarium+light&oq=jungle+dawn&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l3.2053.3900.0.5661.11.9.0.2.2.2.447.1756.2j5j4-2.9.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.RuaZ5QIMqvs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47883778,d.dmg&fp=9150f448457007f1&biw=1762&bih=800

Lighting :: LED Lighting :: Tropic Dawn 60 LED 13W Terrarium Light - SALE! - Fruit Flies and Supplies

Tropic Dawn

and they have TM after it.... 
but my lawyer & I checked and *they have not filed* to trade mark the name in the past few months.....
So then what's up with using the "TM"?

Oh well.... 
I have so many things in the pipeline now.... it will keep those who want to copy me or what I sell busy playing catch -up* for years.* 

Speaking of copy cats...

One person selling a dozen or so LEDs can't quite compare to this:

It is interesting that Zoo Med had to come out with their Reptile T5 bulb recently.

You see, Arcadia has had them, *perfected them*, and had them in the European Market _for years._.....
but maybe it didn't occur to ZM to bother with ho t5s' in the US until LightYourReptiles.com got a JUMP on it and started importing them into the US market 2.5-3 years ago??

Yes, LightYourReptiles.com was the first to bring the HO t5 UVb Bulb to the us market and it took about the same time to get a "me to" on those as it did these LEDs. 

So it will be interesting to see in the years to come what other firsts and innovations from LightYourReptiles.com gets "me too-ed" as well...

I think "me- too" is actually a better term than "knock off".

Like a little kid, someone sees someone doing something unique and innovative and successful and then they go all "whaah... me too - me too"... 
_instead of being able to come up with their own unique stuff._

Well shucks,
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 
oxoxox

Cheers
Todd


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## Raptor22 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am going to come right out and say that the way LYR talks about knockoffs really drives me away from the product. I understand that you are proud of your product, and I know it is well made. So, why waste so much time talking about how "real" your bulbs are instead of letting the product stand on its own? Competition is healthy, and just because someone brings a similar product to the market after you does not make it a "knockoff". If your product is truly superior, the market will decide for itself without you talking down your competitors.

I may be alone here, but the advertising is part of the reason why I will be going the DIY route instead of purchasing a JD bulb.

LYR is even talking trash about being the first in line with a t5 Ho bulb. So? T5 HO is the future of fluorescent lighting. It only makes sense that a large reptile company would release a UV bulb in the newest form factor for flourescent lights. That would have happened regardless of whether or not LYR imported them. To imply they created this product just because of arcadia's association with LYR is pretty arrogant and extremely bad form.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

No one can be hard on me Todd, we're all adults lol. Where are Jungle Dawns made? Is The trademark/patent on the name and not the bulb? Or is it on the row of yellow LEDs? If there was a patent on the style of the bulb, only you would be able to manufacture it, correct? Just a few questions I have. Here's a 64 diode 13w led just the cool white 6000-6500k. I'm going to run with the name "Knock Off" when I sell my bulbs lol. No hard feeling towards anyone.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Kudos to Todd for the Liability Insurance. I remember selling a fixture years ago where the moonlight went out the manufacturer sent me a bulb with two wires connected to it to send to the customer for them to wire it...I filed for an LLC and got Liability insurance after that...

Todd is an innovator and an asset to our hobby, no question about it.

Version 2.0 of our Green Gro LED bulbs should be ready next week...The new version has a built in vent (less heat) and 60 LEDs. We still plan on carrying the Jungle Dawn™ bulbs as they are different (and as long as Todd allows).

On a related note, it appears that we are the only place that has true Jungle Dawn™ in stock right now: Jungle Dawns for Sale


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Raptor22 said:


> I am going to come right out and say that the way LYR talks about knockoffs really drives me away from the product. I understand that you are proud of your product, and I know it is well made. So, why waste so much time talking about how "real" your bulbs are instead of letting the product stand on its own? Competition is healthy, and just because someone brings a similar product to the market after you does not make it a "knockoff". If your product is truly superior, the market will decide for itself without you talking down your competitors.
> 
> I may be alone here, but the advertising is part of the reason why I will be going the DIY route instead of purchasing a JD bulb.
> 
> LYR is even talking trash about being the first in line with a t5 Ho bulb. So? T5 HO is the future of fluorescent lighting. It only makes sense that a large reptile company would release a UV bulb in the newest form factor for flourescent lights. That would have happened regardless of whether or not LYR imported them. To imply they created this product just because of arcadia's association with LYR is pretty arrogant and extremely bad form.



Trash talking? How can you say that when I am just stating the facts?
*sigh* 
I guess everyone interprets things differently and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
But I wonder if you would take such an opposition to me sticking up for my self, business and product if *you* have ever been in a position where you had worked on something for years and then had many "me-too's" try to take a bite out of the pie and also minimize what you had done?

If you don't believe me..... 
and think Jungle Dawns® just sprung to life overnight.... 
please just take a look at the photo I snapped.
And this was all I could get to drag out in 3 min., there is more.
I didn't even start to pull out the driver and transformer boxes. 

I don't have hard feelings, actually I am kind of chuckling as I type this...

But it just isn't Dendroboard unless things can become polarized and someones panties go up in a bunch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You know, it is not just the diodes that folks focus on (because it is an most obvious, visible difference), it also includes the electronic "guts" in them that are a result of much trial and error to find what will hold up best .... 
This represents a few thousand dollars worth of sampling and R&D below, from 4 or 5 different suppliers and assembly houses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW, there is much more potential here, that is why
*LYR is still testing and advancing the whole LED screw in concept with a new design that is the manufacturing phase right now.... called Jungle Dawn® Grow and Glow.*
Talk about mixing diodes! 
Wait till you see these beauties.. 
but they still have to pass the muster.
We went to a beefier aluminum with bigger heat "fins" for these 20 watt screw in Monsters!
plug plug plug 

Cheers!
Todd


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

joshsfrogs said:


> Kudos to Todd for the Liability Insurance. I remember selling a fixture years ago where the moonlight went out the manufacturer sent me a bulb with two wires connected to it to send to the customer for them to wire it...I filed for an LLC and got Liability insurance after that...
> 
> Todd is an innovator and an asset to our hobby, no question about it.
> 
> ...


You know Josh, you will always carry them as long as you want. 

Cheers.


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## Raptor22 (Nov 23, 2012)

Venutus1 said:


> Like a little kid, someone sees someone doing something unique and innovative and successful and then they go all "whaah... me too - me too"...
> _instead of being able to come up with their own unique stuff._
> 
> Well shucks,
> ...


This isn't just stating the facts. Painting your competitors as whiney children is an emotionally-laden ad hominem attack, and doesn't help anyone. This sort of thing has no place in posts about your competitors, no matter how much real information you provided. You should keep things logical or not talk about your competitors at all.

Do you have any concrete evidence of any kind showing that zoo med's new bulbs were released because of your importation of arcadia tubes? Because if you don't, then that part of your post is PURE conjecture used to paint your competitor in a bad light. 

I could go through, sentence by sentence, picking out the appeals to emotion and logical fallacies, but there is no point. Reread your post. There is plenty of unnecessary mudslinging going on here, and it by no means "sticks to the facts".

I don't have my "panties up in a bunch". There is no need for that sort of talk, and it certainly won't win you any customers.

I am perfectly happy to vote with my wallet, but like everything on this forum, people share their opinions. You could take it as a personal attack, which it isn't, or you could take feedback from a potential customer who is telling you why he shies away from your products. I am likely not the only one that feels this way.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

At Todd where are these Jungle Dawn bulbs manufactured? The trademark is just the name and not the overall product correct? Why was this product just Trademarked last month, if its been around since the end of 2011?


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## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm looking forward to trying your jungle dawns, I've always been a led DIY junky but they seem promising, what's the cri of one of those bad boys and is one enough for a 20g vert?


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

B-NICE said:


> At Todd where are these Jungle Dawn bulbs manufactured? The trademark is just the name and not the overall product correct? Why was this product just Trademarked last month, if its been around since the end of 2011?


They are manufactured in China by my own peeps.
Yours are made there as well.
There are about a gazzillion LED "Business" there... some factories, some assembly houses (day care ), some re-sellers and jobbers.
And another bazillion companies that make LED components. 

Ahhh... the trick is to find a good one to work with.

plus,
它帮助如果你可以做中国. 

And you may not know how long the trademark process takes once you apply..... 

There is a very small review panel in Washington. And it has to be researched.

So it takes a l-o-n-g time.

(FYI- If it has TM behind it - that allows everyone to know you have applied and it is first come- first to get it. So it basically says "I have applied, so don't bother"

And if it is an ®, it means it went through the process and was approved and granted.) 

I first contacted a few lawyers about it in early spring 2012 and I finally found a good guy and we filed sometime around end of August, I think it was.

I didn't want to leave something to chance through Legal Zoom.

BTW, He is in New York... and specializes in trademarks... Alan Blattberg, Esq...
Do you need to use his services?

Now patenting an LED product is another story.

Cheers,

Todd


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

DrawntoLife said:


> I'm looking forward to trying your jungle dawns, I've always been a led DIY junky but they seem promising, what's the cri of one of those bad boys and is one enough for a 20g vert?


Yes, they will work on that.
I would go with the 13w.

Thank you! You will not be disappointed!


Cheers,
Todd


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## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

Thanks Todd hope you get them in stock soon love the price to try one out


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

FYI, i wasn't going to follow up on your paper work. No further Questions Todd thank you. Good luck and I hope you have much success with your products and business...


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

My 2 cents..........ok, .01 cent. I've been in the aquarium, reptile and amphibian hobby for well over 20 years. I've seen trends and new products come and go, and after awhile, you get to see the patterns. New products come out that are bette quality, more effective, more efficient, etc. At that time....price is SKY high. Company's HAVE spent significant amounts of money to adapt, design, modify, reinvent until they have a marketable profit. Initally, profit margins are gigantic as the companies try to earn back their initial investment. The # of suppliers of the product are limited (supply & demand) initally and can pretty much charge whatever they want. As other companies notice the success and the trend, yes, they hop on the bandwagon. The competition starts small price wars. Within a few years, numerous companies are producing similar products of varrying quality. Within 5 years, the product is mainstream and much more affordable. Right now, I think we are at the crest of the highest prices/profit, with many competitors enterign the market as we speak. I expect to see quality go up and prices drop DRAMATICALLY over the next few years. I run Jungle dawns and I love them. But IMHO they are price prohibitive. Right now, I need to retrofit lighting for almost 25 tanks, replacing T-8, T-5 and CFL. All the lighting I've purchased so far promotes excellent prowth. But I cannot afford to spend on one 8 inch light what I can spend to light an entire 3 level 48" rack. For me, I'm waiting a little while till prices drop 30-40%. It'll happen, just wait. The next 2 years will bring new products at lower and lower prices.

Edit P.S. This is NOT a dig at Todd. I like his lights and products and have no problem with him whatsoever. More of a general observation of the LED market encompassing ALL brands available right now.


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Raptor22 said:


> This isn't just stating the facts. Painting your competitors as whiney children is an emotionally-laden ad hominem attack, and doesn't help anyone. This sort of thing has no place in posts about your competitors, no matter how much real information you provided. You should keep things logical or not talk about your competitors at all.
> 
> Do you have any concrete evidence of any kind showing that zoo med's new bulbs were released because of your importation of arcadia tubes? Because if you don't, then that part of your post is PURE conjecture used to paint your competitor in a bad light.
> 
> ...


I am sorry and apologize if you are upset with me,
but my e-mails are definitely running the other direction *from those who say to me its about time you stood up for yourself and what you are doing.*
hmmmm
And If I didn't know better.... 
I might suspect there is another motivation to your posting, interpreting for the forum what I said ....
being the guy "calling me out" as it were with much indignation.

??trying to drive sales in some other direction?

But that is just my silly speculation.

*Because I do agree with you 100% and think the readers are smart enough by all means to vote with their wallets!
*
And while they are on the way to the voting booth...
if anyone wants to get the picture of what what I am like to do business with 
then I suggest they may want to read the LightYourReptiles.com / Todd Goode customer feedback thread:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ve...ightyourreptiles-com-todd-goode-venutus1.html

On another subject we may want to consider:

It is no secret that American business is loosing its edge.(maybe has lost it !?)
Why?
Because it is always easier to try and cash in on what someone else is doing and found success at, 
try and muscle in, copy them and divide the pie... Wall mart it and do it on the cheap....
*RATHER THAN being your own innovator and coming up with their own stuff!*


It is becoming a country of copy-ers and me-too's,* rather than industry innovators, inventors and leaders.
*
And that is sad... 
THAT IS big whaa whaa to our American economy and our future generations.

I think THAT is important to consider whether they want to buy an LED light from me or not.

ok... now I am off my soapbox for today... finally. 

Thank you.
Todd


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## Fantastica (May 5, 2013)

joshsfrogs said:


> On a related note, it appears that we are the only place that has true Jungle Dawn™ in stock right now: Jungle Dawns for Sale


Actually, NEHerp also has them in stock, and for the same price as your Green Gro's  New England Herpetoculture LLC - Bulbs For Vivariums


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Do the jungle dawn and "other" bulbs burn out if 1 diode burns out or just that 1 diode?


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

oddlot said:


> Do the jungle dawn and "other" bulbs burn out if 1 diode burns out or just that 1 diode?



Good question!

If they do go out, it is vertical columns that will go out.

So the column goes out. 

In 2.5 years I have had 3 Jungle Dawns® that had that happen.... the bulbs were still under 1 year warranty and and had not been "abused"... so they were simply given free replacements... and did not have to send back the originals, a picture sufficed.

Cheers
Todd


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks Todd,So you would lose one row basically dropping a 13 to a 9.Good to know.I wasn't sure if they were soldered individually or by row or the whole bulb.That answers my question though.


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## Raptor22 (Nov 23, 2012)

Venutus1 said:


> I am sorry and apologize if you are upset with me,
> but my e-mails are definitely running the other direction *from those who say to me its about time you stood up for yourself and what you are doing.*
> hmmmm
> And If I didn't know better....
> ...


...and once again you imply something bad about another person instead of arguing logically or professionally. This is exactly my point. There is a difference between standing up for yourself and throwing around your forum cred to paint others in a bad light, especially when you have no evidence of any kind.

I welcome anyone to do a search of my posts here or on Pangaea, and I think it will become clear I am not a shill, just a guy who has some vivariums. I have never once said a bad thing about Jungle Dawn hardware, I simply informed you why your advertising drives me away.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Raptor22 said:


> ...and once again you imply something bad about another person instead of arguing logically or professionally. This is exactly my point. There is a difference between standing up for yourself and throwing around your forum cred to paint others in a bad light, especially when you have no evidence of any kind.
> 
> I welcome anyone to do a search of my posts here or on Pangaea, and I think it will become clear I am not a shill, just a guy who has some vivariums. I have never once said a bad thing about Jungle Dawn hardware, I simply informed you why your advertising drives me away.


Then why sit and argue with him?

sent from my Galaxy S lll


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

[或使用谷歌翻譯

QUOTE=Venutus1;918017]
它帮助如果你可以做中国. 
[/QUOTE]


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

aspidites73 said:


> [或使用谷歌翻譯
> 
> quote=venutus1;918017]
> 它帮助如果你可以做中国.


[/quote]

哈哈
如此真实


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Hey no Chinese posting.Some of us/probably most are Chinese illiterate 

吐哈同时具尸体呢哦他日该合同！


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## Jerryo (Sep 27, 2011)

Funny how this type of led bulb is poping every where. I have 3 of these bulbs since 2008. It was use for my salt water tank and my frog tank. They still work just fine. There was no jungle dawn bulb back then. You can buy these for 12 bucks for 52 5050. These are called plc bulbs


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## Jerryo (Sep 27, 2011)

look at these links



G24 PLC LED Light 6W SMD5050 24LEDS Spot Light Ceiling Down Light | eBay



G24 PLC LED Light 15W SMD5050 60leds Spot Light Ceiling Down Light | eBay


E27 6W 9W 12W 28 40 52 LED 5050 SMD High Power Spot Light Corn Lamp Bulb | eBay


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## Jerryo (Sep 27, 2011)

I also had two g24 bulbs the square shape head for my wifes aero garden. Thats how I came across these type of bulbs.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Jerryo said:


> Funny how this type of led bulb is poping every where. I have 3 of these bulbs since 2008. It was use for my salt water tank and my frog tank. They still work just fine. There was no jungle dawn bulb back then. You can buy these for 12 bucks for 52 5050. These are called plc bulbs


Well that beats even me I think...It was 2009/2010 when I first got the idea 

The bummer about the cheaper ones is they almost always come from China, so you have to wait around a month, sometimes more to get them...and if they screw up and send the wrong color temp, or bulb type, or the bulb is damaged fixing the issue can be a real hassle. Plus it is always nice to support the sponsors when possible. (I'm poor so sometimes I have to take the cheapest route, but I try to support the sponsors when I can)


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## NM Crawler (Jan 23, 2012)

I can solve that http://translation.babylon.com/english/to-english/chinese/# ...haha. I know how many sensitive folks we have here. I really didn't think when I posted this thread that it was going to take off like it did, good and bad. Thanks for all that commented on the different types of bulbs being used. I finally got my custom rack welded up now need to finish up a few more Vivs. I understand that I could go the inexpensive route on lights but how much will I really be saving, a few hundred dollars? Not really worth it to me at this point as I'm buying 42 bulbs and really don't have the time to experiment with other bulbs or have them fail and wait on the Chinese to send another batch and sit @ customs for ever. I've been speaking with Todd for awhile on LEDs and he best way to light my rack. To be honest with you and I don't have any hair on my tongue when it comes to speaking my mind but every time I have spoken with Todd he has been nothing but a pleasure to speak to and man does he have patients! Once I receive the light and finish my builds I'll start a thread on my tanks and the lighting system to give . Thanks again guys! 



Jerryo said:


> Funny how this type of led bulb is poping every where. I have 3 of these bulbs since 2008. It was use for my salt water tank and my frog tank. They still work just fine. There was no jungle dawn bulb back then. You can buy these for 12 bucks for 52 5050. These are called plc bulbs





Jerryo said:


> look at these links
> 
> 
> 
> ...





oddlot said:


> Hey no Chinese posting.Some of us/probably most are Chinese illiterate
> 
> 吐哈同时具尸体呢哦他日该合同！





Dendro Dave said:


> Well that beats even me I think...It was 2009/2010 when I first got the idea
> 
> The bummer about the cheaper ones is they almost always come from China, so you have to wait around a month, sometimes more to get them...and if they screw up and send the wrong color temp, or bulb type, or the bulb is damaged fixing the issue can be a real hassle. Plus it is always nice to support the sponsors when possible. (I'm poor so sometimes I have to take the cheapest route, but I try to support the sponsors when I can)


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Shucks, thats nice of you to say. 

And this sure turned into a lively thread!

Moving on...
Now I am thinking of a way to get the side mount / aka/ mini mount sockets to daisy chain....

The next load of 13w JDs in due in through customs today so get ready!

pssssssssst
and then there is those new ones --- wish me luck on the new plant grow version that are 20w.  Hopefully the test models will be in soon on those as well. (w/ ho 5630 diodes and red and blue mini diodes)

Like I was telling someone in a personal e-mail, there is no Benz sitting in my driveway-- I use allot of what I make to test out new ideas and try new things.... but that's just me. 

ps. the photo is one of 'em that tested and failed heat-wise---- so go ahead and KNock that one Off, world...LOL!  

Cheers!
Todd



NM Crawler said:


> I can solve that Chinese - English to English Translation ...haha. I know how many sensitive folks we have here. I really didn't think when I posted this thread that it was going to take off like it did, good and bad. Thanks for all that commented on the different types of bulbs being used. I finally got my custom rack welded up now need to finish up a few more Vivs. I understand that I could go the inexpensive route on lights but how much will I really be saving, a few hundred dollars? Not really worth it to me at this point as I'm buying 42 bulbs and really don't have the time to experiment with other bulbs or have them fail and wait on the Chinese to send another batch and sit @ customs for ever. I've been speaking with Todd for awhile on LEDs and he best way to light my rack. To be honest with you and I don't have any hair on my tongue when it comes to speaking my mind but every time I have spoken with Todd he has been nothing but a pleasure to speak to and man does he have patients! Once I receive the light and finish my builds I'll start a thread on my tanks and the lighting system to give . Thanks again guys!


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## NM Crawler (Jan 23, 2012)

Funny you mentioned about daisy Channing them together. I was going to email you about this. Have you played with daisy chainning them together or is this just a idea @ the moment? Any plans for a 26 or 30 led puck that would be able to light a 18x18x24 foot print? Thanks


Venutus1 said:


> Shucks, thats nice of you to say.
> 
> And this sure turned into a lively thread!
> 
> ...


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## dallas green and gold (Jan 30, 2013)

Yea I was useing the zoo med...over the top horizontal screw in I was satisfied since day 1 when I tried it I said heck miggt as well try it and when I saw how much brighter tge light was and how clear the light looked as opposed to a t5 light bar I never looked back and when I was ordering from josh.s last tine I happened to see tbe new grow green one and gigured I would try it as well 




Venutus1 said:


> The reason they were warmer and brighter is that Jungle Dawns® REALLY ARE 13 watts.... of pure, broad spectrum 6.5-ish Kelvin LED Light!
> 
> 
> You could have used 11 or 9 watt Jungle Dawns® if a TRUE 13 Watt LED was giving you too much heat. Oh well. it is what it is.
> ...




Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

*ask and ye shall receive....*






NM Crawler said:


> Funny you mentioned about daisy Channing them together. I was going to email you about this. Have you played with daisy chainning them together or is this just a idea @ the moment? Any plans for a 26 or 30 led puck that would be able to light a 18x18x24 foot print? Thanks



These are awesome, but not cheap!

I haven't put them on web-site yet.

They are LOW Profile though , about 2.5 tall and it is an all metal cast heat sink housing!

They would fit BEAUTIFUL like nice "puck" lights on any bakers rack... since the mount they come with is easy to do away with, if you don't need it.

30 Watt LED Spotlight | Arcadia Aquatic


Great to do the "shaft of light through the trees" effect on big tanks, too. 

They cost 259.99 ea. , so I only have a few in stock.

one will light a 18 x 18 x 24.

They are super CraZY bright using Cree xp diodes and very high quality, totally guaranteed by me and Arcadia.

Cheers!


OH yea
for daisy chaining side mount sockets...they would just need the wires cut and end plug receptacles purchased at your local hardware store...its easy.
They are at your local ace hardware, in the bins by all the loose lamp cord replacement plugs.
Personally, I would just hardwire them, using junction boxes every few feet or so.

Cheers
Todd

ps. they are quite minimal, only about 6.5" in dia. overall. 
and they do work on both 110v and 220/23v... 
and the driver is separate (in line) to keep away from the heat - that part I love! 
and very moisture proof (but not totally submersible).


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Venutus1 said:


> *ask and ye shall receive....*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh those are cool...definitely be nice for lighting verts/exo-terra/zoomed type setups...or use a couple for wider setups. 

*P.S. * I got your last PM...I'll be in touch soon


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