# Epipedobates from Brazil



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

These photographs are used here with permission from Allen Chartier so that the species can be identified. Originally thought to be A. (E.) femoralis I don't believe this to be so, but rather another Epipedobates species. These photos are from Nov 1993 in Manaus, Brazil.










Two more pics detailing side markings and flash markings can be found here: http://www.amazilia.net/images/Herps/Frogs/Epipedobates_femoralis.htm


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Come on people.... ideas? I'm going with E. pictus, but wanted other opinions.


----------



## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

I'd go for femoralis. The call and a picture of the ventral side should give it away.

Remco


----------



## jbeetle (Feb 8, 2004)

Wouldn't size also help?


----------



## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*Wow*

Interesting frog. It looks granular on the back suggesting Epidobates. But it has the rear orange leg flash of D. castaneoticus as well as the dorsal lines. Anyone else notice that? I would go with Epidobates for sure but I have no idea what species.
Dave


----------



## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

I would go with femoralis, that frog has the same profile as my femoralis adults being the only slight differences are the markings on the side of the frog and the size of the flashmarks. All my adults have orange flash marks but the young range from yellow to orange and some don't have any.

You can distinguish between pictus and femoralis by the presence of basal webbing in the toes.

thanks
ERic


----------



## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Its very close to _A. femoralis_, but a couple questions. Are the toes basally webbed? And the color of the throat? The answer to those questions might clear up its identy. 

Best,

Chuck


----------



## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Its very close to _A. femoralis_, but a couple questions. Are the boes basally webbed? And the color of the throat? The answer to those questions might clear up its identy. 

Best,

Chuck


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Those pictures are unfortunately all their is, and not being a frog person the photographer did not take ventral or foot pics  Something I'll keep in mind when I take pics of my frogs!


----------



## rburnj (Aug 19, 2004)

It looks to be E. flavopictus. Interestingly enough there was just a study published on them in the Journal of Herpetology Vol. 38, No. 4, pp 510-518. It was a pretty cool article on the diet of this savannah species and how it differs from the lowland morphs and other dendrobatids. Pretty much talked about the differences in diet between ants and termites and the toxicity that they create. Just thought I'd put the article out there since its last months publication.

Ryan


----------



## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

_Epipedobates flaviopictus_ has two broken yellow lines down its back - definately that that species. Best bet is _Allobates femoralis_. 

Best,

Chuck


----------



## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

_Epipedobates flaviopictus_ has two broken yellow lines down its back - definately that that species. Best bet is _Allobates femoralis_. 

Best,

Chuck


----------



## rburnj (Aug 19, 2004)

Sorry Chuck, I meant to say that it looked like E. pictus but the article I was referring to was on E. flavopictus. 

Ryan


----------



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

*Epipobates*

My toes are basally webbed Chuck, any idea what that means?
Mark


----------



## Guest (Feb 18, 2005)

*hanheli?*

So what if it's a hanheli? It looks alot like hanheli except from the flashmarks on the back legs, but the hanhelis I've seen are all from Peru.


----------



## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

*Allobates*

Hi. 

It's Allobates femoralis. Size, head shape, and the lower stripe rules out E.hahneli and other members of the pictus group.


----------



## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

But that doesn't rule out something undescribed and there are lots of undescribed Dendrobatids. The color is quite right for _A. femoralis_, but if I had to label it I'd say _A._ sp., aff. _A. femoralis_. 

Best,

Chuck


----------



## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

*A.femoralis*

Hi again.

I respectfully disagree- while taxonomic issues can be argued until the cows come home, the frog in the photo falls within the morphological range of the known species A. femoralis. To date, this species has proven to be relatively conservative genetically and morphologically across its range. If you'd like a congener for comparison check out Allobates zaparo. The Summers lab is doing some great work with these issues- I'd check out their papers. In the end it comes down to the classic "lumping vs. splitting" argument. It depends on your definition of what a "species" is, and your motive. I don't believe there are many undescribed Dendrobatids (well, perhaps Colostethus). If anything, I would say that the taxonomy of the family is in a state of collapse. Regional varieties that have been described as full species through the years are slowly being recognized as local drift. There are a few hidden species turning up to be sure- but these are largely on the basis of genetic sequencing, not new collections or morphological data. One thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that it is a lovely frog, and another fantastic example of the diversity of the group.


----------

