# largest collection of pdfs?



## Biology (Feb 3, 2010)

hi ya'll 
So I was curious and started googling and searching on here who has the largest collection of pdfs and couldn't really find an answer. Im sure its out there and i just cant find it or its at least dated. Im guessing its commercial, a zoo, or some crazy millionaire holed up in his huge basement with a million frogs. So I guess how do you define collection? And in North America or Europe? Commercial or Private? I Mean you could say a FF in South America with a greenhouse filled with a zillion frogs? lot of variables right?

Well I guess i ask this (to be more specific):

1. Who is working the most species in the USA? ( OH, but how do morphs fit in to that count.... not a species but....) 

2. Who c_urrently_ has the most adult pdf in the USA, private and commercial?

food for thought, and if theres already a thread about this someone please link me


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

as far as sheer numbers its most likley an importer, as far as diversity and # of species... well you'll never know, because its not something that that person would likley want others to know. these can be very expensive animals, its like telling someone, hi my name is ______ i have stacks of money lying around my house. not to mention these larger collections likley include quasilegal frogs. 

james


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

There _is_ a thread out there... I think it's in the Members Frogs and Vivariums section, it was posted probably six months ago.... I don't remember who posted that they have a lot of frogs, but I remember someone that had at least 300 PDFs in their personal home... forget the name.

It also caused a little controversy because some of us don't think that "how many" says much. A person who has a lot of money can buy as many frogs as they want, but that shouldn't be a goal that we aim for. We should be focused on how well we take care of the frogs we have.... I'll do a search and see if I can find that thread for you....

Edit: Aaaaaand here you go: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/46372-who-has-most-frogs.html


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

well said. 

i still dont think that the serious collectors who probably have well over 300 frogs, would mention it, and probably wouldnt frequent a board like this either.

james


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

james67 said:


> well said.
> 
> i still dont think that the serious collectors who probably have well over 300 frogs, would mention it, and probably wouldnt frequent a board like this either.
> 
> james


I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that just because a person frequents a forum or talks about how many frogs they have isn't a "serious collector." It's a weird situation. I think some people who don't mention things are afraid that they'd be perceived bragging. On the other hand, I know those who think that not speaking up comes across as seeming superior.... I think the guys who don't make a lot of posts just don't want to come across as prideful, and those who answer questions (even questions like "how many frogs do you have?") don't want to seem stuck-up.

And, maybe it's just a personal opinion, but it seems to me that collectors who are truly serious about their collections and the hobby as a whole would frequent a forum because not only are they concerned about their own collections, but how well everyone else is taking care of their frogs. It seems like someone who's a "serious collector" would want to find a way to distribute their information that comes with experience to make sure that the hobby thrives by enabling other froggers to take care of their frogs the best that they can....

I guess I'm just not sure that the line between "hobbyist" and "serious collector" is so easily distinguishable.... Either way this is a huge deviation from the OP, and for that I apologize.


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## PumilioTurkey (Feb 25, 2010)

There are a couple of people in Germany that have like 100-200 vivariums.

most of them rather keep out of the spotlight though.


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## DKOOISTRA (May 28, 2009)

thread was started by chinoanoah, "who has the most dart frogs"
id put up a linky thingy if i knew how.
agree with the statements above too.
derek


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/46372-who-has-most-frogs.html


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I DO!! It's ME!!!! And I'm not sharing them with ANYONE!!!! They're MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!

(I sure hope someone finds this funny).

Richard.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Woodsman said:


> I DO!! It's ME!!!! And I'm not sharing them with ANYONE!!!! They're MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!
> 
> (I sure hope someone finds this funny).
> 
> Richard.


I sure did  LMAO Richard


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## Biology (Feb 3, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> There _is_ a thread out there... I think it's in the Members Frogs and Vivariums section, it was posted probably six months ago.... I don't remember who posted that they have a lot of frogs, but I remember someone that had at least 300 PDFs in their personal home... forget the name.
> 
> It also caused a little controversy because some of us don't think that "how many" says much. A person who has a lot of money can buy as many frogs as they want, but that shouldn't be a goal that we aim for. We should be focused on how well we take care of the frogs we have.... I'll do a search and see if I can find that thread for you....
> 
> Edit: Aaaaaand here you go: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/46372-who-has-most-frogs.html



oh totally agree!!! i was kinda afriad to ask actually... I think every needs to make sure they dont become like the crazy cat lady who has so many cats she doesnt even know when one dies!  Interesting stuff though i cant imagine having a 100 vivs at home! God I have enough cages to clean at work lol. Im a big proponent of having oh only the tanks that you can make really sparkle. if you have 50 vivs and they all look like crap with a bunch of dead plants and gravel, take up collecting stamps or something. But hey if you dont have job or just have a ton of time and you can have 50 gorgeous vivs with thriving animals, invite me over or send me pics i wanna see hahah.

Thanks for the link to the old thread too, I loved the comment of "maybe we should be asking how many fruit fly cultures you make a week" 

With 170 (give or take) species in the family Its pretty amazing how many species are actually represented in the hobby. kinda scary actually.....


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I routinely take care of over 70 vivaria at work - mostly darts, some mantellas and treefrogs. I have 37 terraria/vivaria in my own collection, 21 of which are currently set up for frogs.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

Interesting thread, humorous in a way.

As has been said, it's very hard to define who is a serious collector and is not, especially based on frog count alone. Volume is most certainly not an indicator of seriousness.

Someone working with a few tanks of Ranitomeya can be every bit as serious a collector/hobbyist/whatever as a breeder with 2000 sq. ft. of warehouse space. 

Personally I'm inclined to think that the real serious people who don't need any kind of peer validation, are not going to list out for you how many frogs they have and what kinds.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Biology said:


> oh totally agree!!! i was kinda afriad to ask actually...


I don't think people should be afraid to ask questions... (although the weekly hybrid question _is_ getting a little annoying).... I just know this question isn't a particularly popular and I figured I'd answer early on and summarize some of the issues in a non-condescending way to cushion the blow.

It's an interesting question, but unfortunately it's not an effective question because the only way to get an answer is to have others respond. Not everyone's going to respond. Very difficult to get an accurate answer.



Imperial_Aquatics said:


> Personally I'm inclined to think that the real serious people who don't need any kind of peer validation, are not going to list out for you how many frogs they have and what kinds.


I can understand why some people are inclined to think this way. I also understand the idea that a some "real serious" people might believe in transparency. It just depends on the individual's personality. I just don't think the line's that well defined.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I can understand why some people are inclined to think this way. I also understand the idea that a some "real serious" people might believe in transparency. It just depends on the individual's personality. I just don't think the line's that well defined.


You're right, it's not a well defined line. For me, it's the same as locking my door when I leave the house, or not announcing to everyone I meet that I have 1500.00 in 100.00 dollar bills in my pocket. 

I don't recall how long ago it was that this happened, as I recall I think it was just over a year ago..... A fairly well known "serious" breeder of L series catfishes, the L-46 Zebra Plecostomus, had his place broken into while he was out. The perps stole all his L-46 specimens, many thousands of dollars worth, and threw other specimens of rare L-series catfishes on the floor to die that they didn't want to take. This was someone who participated on forums, and anyone could build a profile of the guy if they followed his posts long enough. 

It is an unfortunate fact that "transparency" can also translate into "target", especially when anyone can read all about you on the forums.

As someone who is a "serious breeder" myself, I have an absolute rule of no visitors here, and I divulge very little details about what I keep. While I realize that proudly showing off your collection in your sig file which attaches to every post you make is a matter of pride, it can be like walking down the street waving 100 dollar bills in the air to would be thieves.

It's a risk I would rather not take myself.


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## angry gary (Dec 9, 2009)

Biology said:


> oh totally agree!!! i was kinda afriad to ask actually... I think every needs to make sure they dont become like the crazy cat lady who has so many cats she doesnt even know when one dies!


this might be true but at least your frogs aren't peeing on your clothes then eating your eyes out when you die in your sleep.

AG


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Imperial_Aquatics said:


> While I realize that proudly showing off your collection in your sig file which attaches to every post you make is a matter of pride


While I take pride in my work, my signature is hardly a matter of pride (nor is it a complete list) or a reason to show off. 

I suppose I choose to have more faith in my fellow hobbyists. It's probably also helpful that my house is never without someone in it (the word "never" is not a hyperbole). 

My point was simply this. You are someone who doesn't want to share very much personal information about yourself. And that's fine. I don't think that makes you a bad hobbyist or someone who shouldn't be taken seriously. But I don't think that just because I choose to divulge information about myself and invite some of the locals over to my place to chat about frogging makes me any less serious.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

A good reason for listing frogs in a signature might be that someone that has something you want sees it, i.e. if "0.1 Rio Guarumo" is in your sig and someone sees it that has an extra male.............


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

Imperial_Aquatics said:


> I don't recall how long ago it was that this happened, as I recall I think it was just over a year ago..... A fairly well known "serious" breeder of L series catfishes, the L-46 Zebra Plecostomus, had his place broken into while he was out. The perps stole all his L-46 specimens, many thousands of dollars worth, and threw other specimens of rare L-series catfishes on the floor to die that they didn't want to take. This was someone who participated on forums, and anyone could build a profile of the guy if they followed his posts long enough.
> 
> It is an unfortunate fact that "transparency" can also translate into "target", especially when anyone can read all about you on the forums.


The well known python breeder Bob Clark also had a major theft from his facility. I agree that some things can not be trusted as public knowledge. I also think that the size of the collection or number of species means absolutely nothing if they are sitting in glass boxes and not being reproduced and spread out among the hobby. I know people with 40-50 frogs and have been in the hobby less than 6 months who still send me questions like "When will I get eggs" and "How can I tell if it's a male of female?". Unfortunately it seem pretty common for beginners to think that having rare or expensive frogs or having lots of different types is some how seen as a status symbol and I personally think we should discourage this kind of thinking.


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## swampfoxjjr (Nov 13, 2007)

I have also seen it happen fairly frequently on these forums that someone posts something rare in their "how many I have" thread and gets inundated by noob requests for pricing. Also, I personally have no interest in engaging in legality debates of mine or anyone's collection over the internet with a bunch of strangers. I would venture to guess that honesty about one's total collection is a fairly rare thing in this hobby.

That said, nobody should be discouraged from asking a question like this if they are curious. Just be prepared for the odd responses like this one...(and by odd I mean entirely unhelpful or related to the original question  )


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

SmackoftheGods said:


> My point was simply this. You are someone who doesn't want to share very much personal information about yourself. And that's fine. I don't think that makes you a bad hobbyist or someone who shouldn't be taken seriously. But I don't think that just because I choose to divulge information about myself and invite some of the locals over to my place to chat about frogging makes me any less serious.



I never said it made you less serious. Just that there seems to be a tendency to be private among the more serious hobbyists. That doesn't mean that being private in any way is a measure of how serious one is.

But we can't deny that there is a pretty large risk in being wide open about what you have and what you are doing in a public forum, especially if you have 10's of thousands of dollars of livestock that could potentially be a target.

Is it likely to happen? probably not. The guy who lost the fish, and the other story about the snake breeder are clearly extreme incidents that we all can be shocked by. We hope it will never happen to us, but bottom line is one can never be sure.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Imperial_Aquatics said:


> I never said it made you less serious. Just that there seems to be a tendency to be private among the more serious hobbyists. That doesn't mean that being private in any way is a measure of how serious one is.
> 
> But we can't deny that there is a pretty large risk in being wide open about what you have and what you are doing in a public forum, especially if you have 10's of thousands of dollars of livestock that could potentially be a target.
> 
> Is it likely to happen? probably not. The guy who lost the fish, and the other story about the snake breeder are clearly extreme incidents that we all can be shocked by. We hope it will never happen to us, but bottom line is one can never be sure.



Fair enough. As I've said, I understand the desire for anonimity. Even I (who is a pretty open individual) like to get to know someone a little bit over the phone or via PMs before inviting a person over to my house to see my collection or to sell FF cultures out of my basement. I've just chosen not to take the approach of secrecy. I understand it's a personal choice (one that might be considered naive by many), but I like to think that in being open and honest and helpful the same will be returned to me (at least to _some_ extent) when I need it.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I've just chosen not to take the approach of secrecy. I understand it's a personal choice (one that might be considered naive by many), but I like to think that in being open and honest and helpful the same will be returned to me (at least to _some_ extent) when I need it.



First off, being private and being secretive aren't really the same thing. I see a very large difference between the two.

Also, being private doesn't keep one from being open, honest or helpful. You can be all of those and still maintain your privacy.

But you are right, it is all down to personal choice. One shouldn't be judged negatively either way.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Displaying the species of which you have can be a good thing for others in need. Although in my opinion the numbers shouldnt be told unless they are asked for or its part of a discussion. It may also help everyone to figure out which frogs are in need of breeding so they donot dissapear from the hobby. We have had a couple of attempted theft here in Atlanta because I made that mistake. Sharing info on care and breeding some of these tricky species can only help us all if we know who to ask for help. Couldnt you see someone new to dart frogs going post to post asking what everyone has because they dont know where to go to for help all because nobody shares what species they are working with. That would get annoying.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

I don't know that there is _that_ much privacy and secrecy (there is some, and some people are annoying about it), so much as a good fraction of the hobby just aren't forum people. Not being an internet forum person doesn't make you a privacy seeker, or secretive, but it does mean that new joe on dendroboard isn't going to know you have the histrionicus they so _desperately_ need.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

Catfur said:


> it does mean that new joe on dendroboard isn't going to know you have the histrionicus they so _desperately_ need.



Of course if you have one for sale that someone desperately needs, it's probably pretty likely that you have posted it for sale in the marketplace.

For that matter keeping them from posting in the Wanted forum. 


I have a few adult frogs I need to match up with some odd balls. I'm sure not looking at people's sig files in the hopes of finding what I am looking for. Just sayin'


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I think Kyle's vision for this forum is that frog species and sex ratios NOT be listed in member sigs as he feels it clutters up the postings ect.

I'm inclined to agree, especially since I keep way more frogs than would be possible to list in a sig block.

The idea of a breeder database coincidently came up recently at a local MADs meeting at Scott Menigoz's house. It would come in handy, fer sure...

Scott has gracioulsy hosted at least 4 meetings and opened his entire frog room and residence for that matter, to over 40 DB members. I personally applaud his comittment to the hobby.


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## Biology (Feb 3, 2010)

ya i agree with you all. As far as the thefts are concerned I tend to think that people who have the time, passion, and expertise to care for darts are probably not crazy breaking and entering to gather a bigger collection or sell them piece meal for 100 a piece. For a hobbyist i HIGHLY doubt you would get your stuff stolen. But for a breeder and at zoo's i know its a very serious problem. Google "zoo thefts" and see what comes up. or check out this link. But seriously you think its likely that some ones going to steal your stuff? generally only REALLY hard to find stuff thats probably illegal are the only targets. Ok you were in Suriname and WC some crazy glow-in-the-dark new morph that shits diamonds... yea... you might not want to go telling everyone.....

Koala-Nap Highlights Problem of Zoo Thefts / Animals often sought as exotic pets - SFGate

ANYWAY this has digressed ALOT


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Biology said:


> ya i agree with you all. As far as the thefts are concerned I tend to think that people who have the time, passion, and expertise to care for darts are probably not crazy breaking and entering to gather a bigger collection or sell them piece meal for 100 a piece. For a hobbyist i HIGHLY doubt you would get your stuff stolen. But for a breeder and at zoo's i know its a very serious problem. Google "zoo thefts" and see what comes up. or check out this link. But seriously you think its likely that some ones going to steal your stuff? generally only REALLY hard to find stuff thats probably illegal are the only targets. Ok you were in Suriname and WC some crazy glow-in-the-dark new morph that shits diamonds... yea... you might not want to go telling everyone.....
> 
> Koala-Nap Highlights Problem of Zoo Thefts / Animals often sought as exotic pets - SFGate
> 
> ANYWAY this has digressed ALOT


I have a friend who has a large frog collection. He's pretty open about letting people come in and look around, doing business out of his house to locals type of deal, really cool personable guy. HIs house was broken in to. They trashed a bit of his place and I believe they took his stereo and television and some of the typical items to steal. All his frogs were all untouched. I don't think most people even know what they're looking at if they were to break into one of our homes. Of course, there are always those extreme incidents (which shouldn't be taken lightly).


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## Biology (Feb 3, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I I don't think most people even know what they're looking at if they were to break into one of our homes. Of course, there are always those extreme incidents (which shouldn't be taken lightly).


Oh i just got a good idea, Hahaha big sign on th frog room door: "These are POISON dart frogs, they can kill you if you touch them!!!" might make the random thief that dosent know a single thing about frogs not want to touch anything, at least my vivs will be safe


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## Arrynia (Dec 27, 2009)

Accidentally posted this in the other topic that was dug back up in this thread:

Back when I was in the hobby a handful of years ago, I managed a collection of around 50 frogs, representing 13 species (14 at the time as azure's were considered a seperate species). Due to drastic changes in life, I was forced to leave the hobby with the desire to someday come back, when life was back on track. I finally found that time this past fall/winter and here I am! I am very happy with the only 2 frogs currently in my collection. I do have plans to expand again, though probably slowly. I'm currently an EMT and will be continuing my education this fall by taking the Paramedic course. This takes priority right now so I'll have to set a pace on the frog collecting...as much as I hate to.
Right now I am wanting to focus on ranitomeya and oophaga but have some tincs on my 'must-have' list as well. Once I get these varadero's producing, I'm sure my collection will grow through trades.


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## DSZwolle (Jul 27, 2009)

I apologize if someone already posted this. In the US and maybe North America I have not seen a collection larger than the National Aquarium in Baltimore.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

DSZwolle said:


> In the US and maybe North America I have not seen a collection larger than the National Aquarium in Baltimore.


I have a larger collection than that Institution, as does at least 4 other members within the greater Baltimore area.


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## temscbame (Nov 28, 2008)

DSZwolle said:


> I apologize if someone already posted this. In the US and maybe North America I have not seen a collection larger than the National Aquarium in Baltimore.


How large is the collection at the National Aquarium in Baltimore.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh Phil, you're just a big hoarder like me.....Don't make me call PETA and have them come and close you down!!

(Sorry you won't be at Andy's on Sunday. I'll have a Guinness in your honor!) Richard.




Philsuma said:


> I have a larger collection than that Institution, as does at least 4 other members within the greater Baltimore area.


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

Black Jungle has a pretty large collection listed on their site.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Hate to break it to you guys . . . I have the largest collection . . . beat this!


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Oh great, I think I see the next "Where can I get one of those?" frog pics.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I have the largest collection...the largest that will fit in my room that is.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> I have the largest collection...the largest that will fit in my room that is.


I'd love to see this thread: "Who has the most gallons of frog tanks in the smallest square feet of house space".


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## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

joshsfrogs said:


> I'd love to see this thread: "Who has the most gallons of frog tanks in the smallest square feet of house space".


I second this statement ! lol

A story about animal theft . . 
Years ago , when I was still living at home, I was on a backpacking trip. Well one of my sisters decided to have a party at our house on a night our mom wasnt home. Her friends even went around passing out flyers to strangers. Money and jewelry were stolen out of my moms bedroom as well as my other sisters. And about 90% of my tarantula collection was stolen. I later found them in a local pet store still in my containers. I even told the owner what was writen on the bottom and he said I would have to buy them all back. Since he paid for them from some guy that walked in.Never did get them back. But it just goes to show you people will steal anything , even tarantulas !


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

joshsfrogs said:


> I'd love to see this thread: "Who has the most gallons of frog tanks in the smallest square feet of house space".


Had some extra time on my hands and figured I have about 1100 gallons of frog tanks in a 800 SF apartment, this does not count the 140 gallons of aqauriums and 40 gallons of geckos space.

Not that it matter but since the question was posed i was curious to see what all those vivs added up to.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

ggazonas said:


> Had some extra time on my hands and figured I have about 1100 gallons of frog tanks in a 800 SF apartment, this does not count the 140 gallons of aqauriums and 40 gallons of geckos space.
> 
> Not that it matter but since the question was posed i was curious to see what all those vivs added up to.


George, you do have too much time. However, we need the cubic space of the apartment since the tanks are 3 dimensional and stacked.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I added this up myself - including dart vivs, lizard cages, and the torts, I have around 2400 gallons (+/- about 100 gallons) in a 10x27 room. This does not include the 300 gallons worth of exos that are sitting around empty.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

zBrinks said:


> 300 gallons worth of exos that are sitting around empty.


My God man! What are you doing??!! 

I'm not even going to try this as I have one enclosure that is over 5,000 "gallons" on it's own. The funny thing is this would still only be a small fraction of my 2,000 sq ft basement so I could never win this contest . . .


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

melas said:


> My God man! What are you doing??!!


 Pacing myself, Matt. Pacing myself. A man needs other things besides building vivariums, lol.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

nathan said:


> I second this statement ! lol
> 
> A story about animal theft . .
> Years ago , when I was still living at home, I was on a backpacking trip. Well one of my sisters decided to have a party at our house on a night our mom wasnt home. Her friends even went around passing out flyers to strangers. Money and jewelry were stolen out of my moms bedroom as well as my other sisters. And about 90% of my tarantula collection was stolen. I later found them in a local pet store still in my containers. I even told the owner what was writen on the bottom and he said I would have to buy them all back. Since he paid for them from some guy that walked in.Never did get them back. But it just goes to show you people will steal anything , even tarantulas !


Why didn't you just go call the police right then and there? If the store owner refused to return your property, he could have been liable for receiving stolen goods.


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## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

I was young at the time and didnt have my name on the containers so didnt have proof they were mine. It would have been my word against his. If that happened today I would have done more about it in a heart beat.


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