# Noobs 1st clutch logged. R. variabilis 'southern'. pic heavy



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

I am going to log my first clutch so hopefully others can chime in if I'm doing it horribly wrong. 

This is a very unexpected clutch. I have only had the frogs 3 weeks and the male just started calling. There were 12 eggs laid on 12/8 one was bad from the start. 

All I've done so far is remove the bad egg and place the rest in a petri dish with a small amount of RO water. Petri dish is covered.

The parents when the eggs were first laid on the evening of 12/8.


12 eggs to start. Bad one was the giant white blob.


Labelled


I removed the 1 bad egg. Remaining 11 are all showing development. 
Shot from morning of 12/13


----------



## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

So far so good! Good luck.


----------



## genem1948 (Dec 8, 2013)

Sure looks like you were prepared. Hope to see the final results. They are pretty pdf's


----------



## Drewbacca (Apr 5, 2014)

Love my southerns! Great job, and good luck with them!
-Drew


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

That was fast!


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

tardis101 said:


> So far so good! Good luck.


Thanks! I'm really excited.



genem1948 said:


> Sure looks like you were prepared. Hope to see the final results. They are pretty pdf's


Appreciate the comments. I wasn't prepared for them to do this so soon!



Drewbacca said:


> Love my southerns! Great job, and good luck with them!
> -Drew


They are definitely my favorite frogs. Super bold.



ZookeeperDoug said:


> That was fast!


No kidding. They must have been raised by someone who knew what they were doing before me. Thanks again for this awesome pair!


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Here is an update. My deli cups and tetra blackwater extract aren't due until Friday. Hopefully these guys will stay in their eggs until then. I was told I could use rooibos tea instead of the blackwater extract if need be.

I plan on setting up a tub with my tetra 'whisper' in-tank filter and placing the tads in individual deli cups with holes poked in them for water circulation/filtration. I was going to just do pin holes so there won't be a current or chance of tadpole escape. Changing water on 11 individual cups sounds like a pain and stressful to the tadpoles.


----------



## hydromaestro (Nov 6, 2014)

Very exciting! Congratulations on your luck so far! I was wondering if you could tell us where you bought the parents from they look amazing and I can't believe they laid a clutch three weeks after moving into a new home! They obviously were extremely well taken care of


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

hydromaestro said:


> Very exciting! Congratulations on your luck so far! I was wondering if you could tell us where you bought the parents from they look amazing and I can't believe they laid a clutch three weeks after moving into a new home! They obviously were extremely well taken care of


Thanks! I couldn't believe it either and seems like a lot of 1st clutches don't turn out. To have 11 of the original 12 eggs still developing I'm very surprised!

I got them from ZookeeperDoug. They are the Understory Enterprises line (i think all southerns are?). I was referred to him as well as Tongo by other members on here. Hopefully, I will have some froglets to offer in 2016!


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

*Day 10 Update*
They are moving! Still in the eggs but I think hatching day is soon! I've been worried since the temps have been a bit cooler (for here anyway). But, they seem to be developing just fine. I can clearly see gills and the yolk is shrinking a bit.

They are in a petri dish with a tiny bit of RO water barely touching the bottoms of the eggs. I am going to add a little bit of tetra blackwater/RO water so the tads have something to swim in when they hatch.


----------



## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

For future reference, or in case your tads hatch before your supplies arrive, a Smart & Final store is a good place to find all sorts of deli cups and other containers for your dart frog needs.
In addition, if you boil a handful of oak leaves, it makes a very nice tadpole tea. SoCal live oak or coastal scrub oak leaves work great and you can use the leaves for leaf litter after.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

phender said:


> For future reference, or in case your tads hatch before your supplies arrive, a Smart & Final store is a good place to find all sorts of deli cups and other containers for your dart frog needs.
> In addition, if you boil a handful of oak leaves, it makes a very nice tadpole tea. SoCal live oak or coastal scrub oak leaves work great and you can use the leaves for leaf litter after.


Thanks I will keep that in mind. Luckily I was able to get everything in before these guys hatched. I'm still waiting on the tadpole food but it's bue next Tuesday. I figure even if they hatch today they'd have enough yolk left to last them until then and a bit longer.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Just use a good quality fish food for the time being. I mix feeding mine with Thera fish micropellets and ZooMed aquatic frog and tadpole food. They seem to be very forgiving on the diet since I lose very few once they hit the tadpole phase and they morph strong.

Mark


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Here is what the tadpoles have to look forward to! I almost needed a bigger tub.

I have some java moss and anarchis ariving today, some almond leaves coming Sunday although I already have tetra blackwater extract. The cups without lids are there to help diffuse the current of the filter. It was cheap $13 for the tetra 20i. I don't want to do water changes. Just top offs.

Still have to poke holes in the cups and lids. Going to go from inside to out when making the holes so no sharp edges on the inside.


----------



## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Just a couple things about your set up. 

You don't need the tops on the cups. They will just be a PITA when you feed the tads.

You are not going to get a lot of flow through your cups unless you basically have screen mesh cups or holes too big to keep in the tads. Water is going to take the path of least resistance and it won't go into the cups unless it has to. Picking the cups up and down two or three times a week would probably serve as an easy water change though.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

phender said:


> Just a couple things about your set up.
> 
> You don't need the tops on the cups. They will just be a PITA when you feed the tads.
> 
> You are not going to get a lot of flow through your cups unless you basically have screen mesh cups or holes too big to keep in the tads. Water is going to take the path of least resistance and it won't go into the cups unless it has to. Picking the cups up and down two or three times a week would probably serve as an easy water change though.


I definitely will go without lids as you suggest. I was thinking they would be handy for evaporation and to prevent psycho tadpoles from jumping out and killing each other. Poking holes with a needle is a daunting task and if I don't have to do the lids that's even better.

I realize they won't be getting much/any current, but I'm afraid if I do mesh or bigger holes the current will be too much. I don't imagine bromeliad axils have much of a current in the wild and dart tadpoles don't seem like the strongest swimmers. I imagine I'll be picking each container out of the water to check on them relatively often so hopefully that should suffice as water drains out and back in again. 

In a perfect world the advantages of this system are:
1. I only have to top off 1 tub vs. several smaller containers
2. I won't have to do water changes
3. I don't have or want a turkey baster to suck the poo out
4. It will be easily expandable since I will eventually have 3 breeding groups. I can do this simply by getting a bigger tub. 

I wonder how soon they will hatch? Every time I open the petri dish to take a look they move around pretty good inside their eggs. Tadpole seizures....


----------



## Drewbacca (Apr 5, 2014)

I wouldn't even bother with water Changes at all, just too off with RO water as needed. The tad tea can be made as stated by phender by boiling leaves, which works great. For Ranitomeya, I usually just add a few Java moss pieces and an almond leaf piece or two, instead of black water extract. I have had healthy results using this method. Although, others have had success with the black water extract, I just make my own. Good luck, congrats, and keep us all updated on your success!!! 

Regards,

-Drew


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Drewbacca said:


> I wouldn't even bother with water Changes at all, just too off with RO water as needed. The tad tea can be made as stated by phender by boiling leaves, which works great. For Ranitomeya, I usually just add a few Java moss pieces and an almond leaf piece or two, instead of black water extract. I have had healthy results using this method. Although, others have had success with the black water extract, I just make my own. Good luck, congrats, and keep us all updated on your success!!!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Drew


Thanks for the tips. I realized the pieces of almond leaf soaking in the tadpole cups already created 'tadpole tea'. At least the blackwater extract was cheap....


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

*UPDATE(S)!*

It has been a hectic holiday season. And with New Years and my birthday coming around the corner I will do my best.

*12/22*
First egg hatched. Lots of movement from the tadpoles still in their eggs. Tadpole cups don't fill with water properly so I'm going to leave the hatched tadpole in the petri dish for now.

*12/23*
Dirk and Oprah laid_ another _clutch of 6+eggs. I'm a little overwhelmed and plan on leaving these in their vivarium until they hatch. I've seen mainly the female attend to the eggs. Hopefully leaving them in the tank will slow down their randiness. My current tadpole tub can fit 3 more tadpoles and that's it.

*12/24-27*
Gone visitting family. I came home to find the apartment hovering in the high 50s  Everyone looks fine but not much development has occured.

*12/29*
5 of the 11 eggs have hatched. They started hatching on 12/22. Is it normal that hatching is spread over a week? The tads still in their eggs look good.

12/22 First tadpole out of it's egg


12/29 Tadpoles that don't want to leave their eggs yet. I moved them closer to the top of an LED fixture so they stay warm.


12/29 Tadpole in it's new home. Water is only a little more than an inch deep. Each cup has some java moss and a portion of almond leaf. Holes had to be made larger so water would enter.


12/29 My tadpole setup. I'm having issues with the National Geographic aquarium heater. I set it at 72 but it heats a portion to 80F while the other side stays cold. Hopefully this will be fixed when I can raise the water level for the filter and there's circulation. Before the heater water temp was 58-62F.


----------



## rulzunivrs (Nov 15, 2014)

Any updates?


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

rulzunivrs said:


> Any updates?


Thanks for the reminder. I completely forgot about this thread. My pair is already on their 5th clutch! I've tried leaving the eggs and tadpoles in the tank to slow down the parents, but it seems my male is transporting tadpoles on a weekly basis. I don't even want to know how many tadpoles are still in the vivarium, but every single bromeliad, film canister and water cup I place in there get's a tadpole within a couple days.

I had to change my tadpole set-up since my hole concept did not work at all for changing water. I now have them in individual cups sitting in a 10gal aquarium using an aquarium heater to keep them warm. I have not performed any water changes. I just add RO water when the level gets low. Water temps are kept between 70-72F. I feed every other day with a small amount of Genesis Exotics tadpole food. Each cup still has an almond leaf sliver and some java moss, some have some anarchis too.

I only have 3 tadpoles left from the first clutch. They are really big and the body shape has changed, but no legs yet. I got excited the other day thinking I saw leg buds, but it turned out to be poop...

I'm not sure if they just take a really long time, or I'm doing something wrong but I hope these guys morph soon, I have a ton of tadpoles but no froglets. Some of my tadpoles from the 2nd clutch are as big as the older tadpoles from the first clutch.

This is the newer set up. I have since moved the tadpoles into smaller cups to fit as many as possible in the 10gallon. Some bonus carnivorous plants. 


Some newer tadpoles. 


Super dad.


----------



## Telly80 (Mar 28, 2016)

Any updates?


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Telly80 said:


> Any updates?


Wow so I've had a lot of froglets and tadpoles between my last updates. My pair is still breeding away but I pull fewer tads since I have over 30 tadpoles and two dozen froglets at the moment. The babies grow really fast and at 5+ months they are close to adult size. 


I'm so glad dart frog husbandry is so easy. I feed frogs and tads every other day or so, top off the mistking once a week, start new cultures every 2 weeks and that's about it. With my 70+ hour work week the low maintenance is much appreciated.

I posted these pictures up in the classified section too. But here are a couple of the froglets feeding.



And here are the happy parents


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Here are some older pictures that I'm not sure I posted yet. Random morph out photos.


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

I also keep my tadpoles like this now due to space limitations. I use disposable shot glasses placed inside a shoebox. I can fit 24 tads in one shoebox. Each cup has a piece of indian almond leaf and java moss. The only downside to keeping them in small containers so far is the fact I have to top off twice a week. I still use the same Genesis Exotics tadpole food that I purchased back in December. With all the tadpoles I've had I"m surprised it's lasted this long!


----------



## Vinegaroonie (Jul 31, 2015)

Nice to see someone having so much success! Keep the pics coming!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

