# Frogs not moving seems weaker?



## repticular (Jul 24, 2010)

I have a pair of D. tincs Oyapoks
They've been in there vivarium for over a week 
They were very active and all about 
When I got them and seemed to be hunting and eating when I watched 
This morning they were not moving and slumped down unless provoked

Could this be malnutrition? they're still froglets I first thought they might just be shedding but they've been like this all day
It maybe just me freaking out about my new froglets
My house AC did break for two days and was 85+ in my house but kept there tank to under 75 and 90+ humidity


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

How long have you had them? 
How old were they when you received them? 
What have you been feeding, and how have you been supplementing? 
How large is their enclosure, any pictures? 
Did you quarantine the frogs after you received them? Do any fecal testing or Chytrid PCR testing/Ranavirus swabs?


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Not saying I dont believe you, but this sounds exactly like an overheated frog. 

I had it happen once and the frog basically seemed dead (barely moved for an entire day afterwards)

It took over a month to have the frog be fully recovered.


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## repticular (Jul 24, 2010)

They're in a 20H 
Feeding fruit fly and FF larva since they're skinny 
I received them as full froglets not sure exact age 
I haven't tested or quarantined them, they're from the same egg clutch 
They see the food but struggle to eat it practically have to make them eat larva


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## repticular (Jul 24, 2010)

They've been in there vivarium for over 10 days


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

repticular said:


> They're in a 20H
> Feeding fruit fly and FF larva since they're skinny
> I received them as full froglets not sure exact age
> I haven't tested or quarantined them, they're from the same egg clutch
> They see the food but struggle to eat it practically have to make them eat larva


What are you using for a supplement? What was the person you got them from using as a supplement? 

How tightly closed is the tank? 

Some comments 

Ed


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## s0082 (Jun 22, 2014)

repticular said:


> I have a pair of D. tincs Oyapoks
> They've been in there vivarium for over a week
> They were very active and all about
> When I got them and seemed to be hunting and eating when I watched
> ...



I had this happen with a trio of Patricia's I sold. For me they were doing great. Had them for 18 months started with froglets. She got them to her house and one did this, called a reputable frogger up north and I called a vet and both said it was stress . So I'm not sure that's the only time in all of my years I ever had one do that.


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

How often are you feeding them now (or trying to feed them), and how often did the seller feed them? (Note that Ed asked about supplementation, the schedule itself is a completely different matter--just in case somebody finds these questions redundant).

What do you mean by "full froglets"? To my understanding, there's no such thing as a partial froglet--they're either OOTW, or in it. I ask because they seem really skinny--I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it after you posted the pictures. Froglets should be eating to satiety each day, at ~2 feedings per day--and that picture doesn't look like satiety (i.e., it should be a little chunkier--even if it is really young). The only time I've seen any dart frog that skinny is at the Greenhouse where I work, and those frogs had been malnourished for 9 years.

Finally, the overheating hypothesis mentioned earlier sounds valid, especially if malnutrition is involved. What kind of thermometer do you use?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

s0082 said:


> I had this happen with a trio of Patricia's I sold. For me they were doing great. Had them for 18 months started with froglets. She got them to her house and one did this, called a reputable frogger up north and I called a vet and both said it was stress . So I'm not sure that's the only time in all of my years I ever had one do that.


There are a bunch of potential causes of this sort of behavior some aren't a problem as they should go away with time, while others are potentially more critical to address. As an example, lethargy "could" be due to higher carbon dioxide levels in the tank or it could be due to heat stress or it could be due to an infection, or it could be due to insufficient vitamin A... there is a long list. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## repticular (Jul 24, 2010)

Using Repti Cal to dust flys feed every other day 
Feed once a day 
But they don't not eat all the food and only go after a couple flys then loose interest 
They love larva now and eat that more regularly 
The seller was only feeding them 3 times a week !:/
They've gained some weight now and seem to be a lot more active 
But still keeping careful eyes on them
I have a standard zoomed thermometer and hydrometer planning on getting digital ones soon


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## Tzunu'un (Apr 15, 2014)

For dusting:

Reptical doesn't have preformed vitamin A in a usable form for frogs.

You should switch to a calcium product that does contain preformed vitamin A, such as Repashy Calcium Plus or Dendrocare.

Additionally, once or twice a month you should alternatively dust with Repashy Vitamin A Plus to make sure your frogs are getting adequate vitamin A.


Alternatively (although less recommended):
If you stick with using the Reptical, then definitely your frogs are not getting enough Vitamin A using it alone. You need to get the Repashy Vitamin A into your dusting schedule.


As Ed mentioned above, Vitamin A deficiency can lead to some of these problems.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

^^^ also, those thermometers and hygrometers are notoriously inaccurate, so you really have no idea of the temp and humidity. 

Dust with EVERY feeding. There is no reason frogs in otherwise good health can't be fed only three times a week.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

repticular said:


> Using Repti Cal to dust flys feed every other day
> Feed once a day
> But they don't not eat all the food and only go after a couple flys then loose interest
> They love larva now and eat that more regularly
> ...


As a Texan wondering what the temps are where you are keeping the frogs.. Been hot as heck, if you really want accurate temps I would suggest a temp gun, also what lighting are you using and what is your schedule for lights on and off plus misting schedule.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

kingfisherfleshy said:


> Not saying I dont believe you, but this sounds exactly like an overheated frog.
> 
> I had it happen once and the frog basically seemed dead (barely moved for an entire day afterwards)
> 
> It took over a month to have the frog be fully recovered.


It very much sounds like heat stress to me also. I've seen similar signs of heat stress at 80 degrees (my AC also had gone out and a lot of frogs were lethargic), it was several days before they appeared to be moving normally. If they are not eating many flies at a time, you might try feeding a smaller numbers of flies but more often (say a few flies a few times a day). 

Good luck!


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