# Spots on Reed frogs



## omreeeee (Jan 11, 2021)

I have 2 male blue back Reed frogs that have developed little whitish spots on their backs. Everything else looks fine and their behavior is completely normal. I’ve researched common amphibian conditions and am at a loss, so I was hoping someone here may know what it is. What I’m guessing is that these are some sort of mild abrasion, perhaps colonized by opportunistic bacteria. Since the frogs aren’t acting sick and these aren’t raised lesions I’m hoping the issue is skin deep and can be resolved.

Im moving them to a quarantine bin, but besides keeping them clean, what can I do? I have chlorhexadine, but I’ve read topical disinfectants aren’t good for amphibians. I don’t want to take them to vet, as they probably won’t even know what kind of frog they are and I doubt they would be able to safely examine and dose such a small sensitive animal. Thankfully I had my female separate to prevent breeding so she seems fine.

Here are some pictures of the two frogs. The first has some springtails stuck to his leg so ignore that. I wasn’t meaning to handle the second one but he jumped on me while I was taking the picture.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

As with all heath inquiries, answering these questions will likely be useful:









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Answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste -- please don't quote because that makes it hard to read the responses): 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)? 2. What are your...




www.dendroboard.com





You can search for a qualified herp vet at this link:

ARAV Vet Finder


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## omreeeee (Jan 11, 2021)

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ?
Blue back Reed frogs, acquired from Josh’s frogs. I’ve had them for a year with little change in husbandry. They’ve always been healthy and even bred, producing healthy babies. Whatever this is, it’s spontaneous.

2. What are your temperatures (day and night - highs and lows) and how do you measure those temperatures? Does the vivarium have any supplemental heating, and if so, what type?
I just got an exoterra combometer, here are the viv measurements:
Current - 77 degrees F, 66% humidity
Min - 73 F, 50%
Max - 89 F, 85%
Usually temps are a bit lower but it’s been a hot summer, could this be heat stress?

3. What lighting is on the enclosure (brand, type, wattage) and does the lighting add heat to the vivarium?
It’s an LED light for plants, raises the temp a few degrees right at the top in case they feel the need to heat up (I basically never see them right under it so I don’t think they feel cold). It’s hot here (currently much hotter than I’d like) so I don’t use heating for them.

4. What is the Humidity like (percentage or guesstimate)? What type of water are you using? What is your misting procedure (automated or hand mister, how long and how often)?
I hand mist, with cold water when it’s this hot. I use tap water treated with reptisafe.

5. Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top, and give details about the ventilation (how many vents, where are they positioned, how large are they).
It’s an exoterra (screen lid on top + the exo vents), pretty standard bioactive setup (I would send a picture but just messed it up catching the frogs + looking for possible abrasive surfaces).

6. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it? What superfine powdered supplements (brand and exact product name) are you using and are they fresh (i.e. how long has the container been open, and how is it stored)?
Bean beetles or crickets every 2-3 days, plus the springtails in the tank, though I haven’t seen them eat the springs (this species prefers bigger prey than frogs). I’ve been using reptivite with D3 for a couple months and store it in the fridge. The other tank (the female and some froglets) is not having this problem so I don’t think it’s a nutrition thing.

7. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently? Tankmates / other frogs ?
Nope

8. Any type of behavior you would consider 'odd' ?
Nothing at all

9. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?
Accidently during that photo and when I moved them to the quarantine bin. Sometimes they hop on my hand while I’m cleaning, but I don’t think that has to do with the spots since they are on their backs. Nothing sprayed on that side of the room except maybe chlorhexadine to clean something. I also use that to disinfect their water bowl (then rinse before returning it).


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## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

In general, fuzzy spots without clear borders tend to be fungal, spots with clear borders are bacterial. To me this looks potentially like abrasions, burn wounds or bacterial lesions. But like socratic said, best thing to do is go to a vet. Get them to take swabs of the spots and test for bacteria. Make sure to ask that they include mycobacterium in their screening.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Johanovich said:


> But like socratic said, best thing to do is go to a vet.


Just to clarify, I did not make that recommendation in my post (though I agree with @Johanovich 's appraisal). I only shared a link that can help find a qualified one, which was in response this concern about vet competence regarding frogs:



omreeeee said:


> I don’t want to take them to vet, as they probably won’t even know what kind of frog they are and I doubt they would be able to safely examine and dose such a small sensitive animal.


A knowledgable herp vet can teach anyone here a thing or twelve, in my experience. A dog and cat vet, not always.

I don't keep tree frogs, and was hoping that sharing all the relevant information would show, as it often does, a red flag on some issue. Aside from the fact that "Reptivite with D3" is a an inadequate source of calcium for insectivores (as it has calcium phosphate, rather than calcium carbonate, as its caicum source), which isn't likely causing the current issue, I myself don't see one.


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## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Just to clarify, I did not make that recommendation in my post (though I agree with @Johanovich 's appraisal). I only shared a link that can help find a qualified one, which was in response this concern about vet competence regarding frogs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry I read you post as being advice to seek advice from a vet. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. 
I agree that a knowledgable vet is a necessity and not just any vet.

I also don't see anything really out of the ordinary. I currently keep Afrixalus and have kept Hyperolius (got rid of them because they were too loud combined with the sound of the Afrixalus), and their housing requirements should be pretty similar to Heterixalus. The Reptivite is indeed the only really suboptimal thing that I see.

The max temperature is a bit on the hotter side for a Madagascan frog, maybe there could be some heat stress but honestly I doubt it especially if they have acces to water and if there is some ventilation. Have you cycled them through seasons? Being from Madagascar they experience seasonality in the wild and generally speaking this should increase overall health. I know it is not really mentioned on the vendor's website for the species, but cycling frogs is a good thing to do generally speaking. Especially for frogs that do experience marked differences between seasons.


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## omreeeee (Jan 11, 2021)

The only vets on ARAV were a bird researcher and a student whose page didn’t even have a phone number, and I don’t have time to go out of town this week. Not really sure what to do.

I’t doesn’t look fuzzy at all, which is why I still think it’s bacterial. As far as I can tell, their condition hasn’t worsened since yesterday. Are there any OTC external antibiotics for frogs?

Also thanks for letting me know about the reptivite. Previously I was using rep-cal, but apparently the vitamin A in that isn’t the right kind for frogs. Which vitamins are good for frogs?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

omreeeee said:


> Which vitamins are good for frogs?


Repashy Calcium Plus.

Edit to add: if there is a major university near you, they often have vet schools, which often see animals.


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## omreeeee (Jan 11, 2021)

Update: They’re doing well. For a few days it looked like they were fighting it off well themselves and could manage while I looked for a vet I could go to, but then I noticed a new spot on each of them and treated with vetericyn. On the frog that had less spots it’s hard to even tell there was something there, the more affected one still has spots but they’re quickly going away (interestingly, some are shrinking and some are the same size but fading).


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