# Too much noise for darts???



## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

hi, i have an unusual question, in my house's living room where i was hoping to plan to set up a 55 gallon terrarium for my dart frogs, but also in this same room we have a drum kit. The drums only get used about once or twice a month if that, but when they areused, they create quite a bit of noise. I was wondering if this would be too much for the frogs of if it should be fine. Im thinking it should be alright but i just wanted to make sure?


----------



## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Have you ever been to the jungle? There's howler monkeys...

...on the other hand, I wouldn't want to live in the same house as someone with a drum set.


----------



## Sabotage (Jun 1, 2010)

I have a somewhat high end home theatre system. One of the subwoofers is close to one of my tanks. I've played movies/music with full bass, with no visible problems or signs of stress.


----------



## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

My girlfriend and I are up late watching the Godfather 2 and just had that same conversation. My frogs were in my bedroom and now in my living room. The rack is next to the TV and I have no problem doing that. Like Catfur said, the jungle is very noisy. Been working on my rack all weekend but just brought the tanks out this morning and set everything up. Minutes after the lights went on the pumilio were calling. In fact, they were calling more today than they ever have. The trio is around 9 months old and there is at least one male. I had heard calling once in a while, usually in the morning when the lights went on and now this one male is calling over a dozen times a day and a lot louder. This was with the TV on and everyone sitting around talking. 

I would avoid extremely loud vibrating noises though lol


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I don't know if frogs' ears are more resilient than ours, but in the jungle they can go into a crevice or hop away to escape it---not so much in a tank. Plus the jungle has more noise-dampening material than a room in a house. 

I'd avoid any noise you can't hear yourself talk over---that has been shown to damage human ears, at least.


----------



## berrymilan (Aug 16, 2010)

Its fine for the frogs, there is no problem for them at all and you can go for it.


----------



## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

berrymilan said:


> Its fine for the frogs, there is no problem for them at all and you can go for it.


Thats until your frogs top breeding because the female is deaf and can't hear the male call


----------



## frog22 (Sep 8, 2010)

I have played in a band for years and would never even think to play drums in my frog/reptile room. The kick drum alone would sound and feel horrible to a 1 inch frog. The sound waves and the vibration traveling through the room hitting enclosure would feel like the ground shaking to them. Just my opinion but not a good idea.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

frog22 said:


> I have played in a band for years and would never even think to play drums in my frog/reptile room. The kick drum alone would sound and feel horrible to a 1 inch frog. The sound waves and the vibration traveling through the room hitting enclosure would feel like the ground shaking to them. Just my opinion but not a good idea.


Agreed! I am partially deaf in one ear from playing guitar in a basement band. I attribute it to the drums. My bad ear is the one that faced the drummer. Loud sounds now sound distorted to me, like a cracked speaker cone. Live drums are so much more than just tv's or stereo sounds. They pack a wicked vibration. You can feel the vibration though your chest cavity! I really think this would terrify your frogs.


----------



## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Most guides and books say to keep them in a quieter area of the house.


----------



## JHicks3 (Sep 6, 2009)

I have seen an increase in calling in my veradero in a sort of 'competition' when I increase the volume of the TV in the adjacent room (pretty cool to watch/listen to). I have also observed this in Leucs, but not nearly as frequently as the veradero. There is no doubt that loud noises spook frogs and that this may adversely impact the amount of time that they are out and about for viewing in the viv. If you are in doubt, walk into a quiet room with a viv and make a noise and see if the frogs respond...unless they are conditioned to the noise, they will likely seek refuge...just a natural behavior to avoid predation.

Also, I would strongly consider that a drum kit, when in use, will typically generates a much louder and more intense sound than a TV or surround sound. Not to say that there arent people out there who push their systems to the max

So I would consider an alternative location if possible. But given the frequency that the kit is played, you should probably be OK. 

Best of Luck!

Jon


----------



## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

I read a thread on transporting frogs from tank to tank using the light bulb protector tubes. They went as far as to say do not tap on the tube to get the frogs out during transfer. I would think a bass drum thump would be that x10 to a frog. Like Doug said, your heart vibrates from drums. Seems it would be very damaging if not just disrupting. I however have to facts or studies to back up my OPINION, heck it might make them the most carefree frogs ever


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

My buddy has drums in his basement....its very uncomfortable for me to sit down there with him while he is playing. Like they said, you can feel it in your chest. We are talking about an average of 100 -135db googling determines that around 180-200 db could very likely kill a 160lb man (I got nothing to back this up) Imagine what would happen to a frog weighing around a oz. 

perhaps the viv might dampen the noise a little or it could act to amplify the soundwaves into something that could very well lead to the death of the frogs. Or at least rupture their tympanic membrane.

Loud Tv even teh stereo turned way up everyonce in a while should be fine but a drum kits probably way too much.


----------



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I agree with most people on here, I would not suggest putting the frogs near the drum set. Like said before, the drums can produce quite a bit of noise... I have some of my dart frogs right next to my tv, but the tv in my room is always pretty quiet. So there really isn't a big problem there. Drums can probably produce a little more noise


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

ggazonas said:


> Thats until your frogs top breeding because the female is deaf and can't hear the male call


Just the thought of a helpless little creature sitting silently and enduring that makes me


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

My frogs have always been kept in the living room where the tv and strereo are kept, though I wonder if they would be better in a more quiet part of the house as well. I don't think that they are very negatively affected, but then again, they havn't personally told me.

True jungles are noisy, but not as concussing as a surround sound or a set of drums. We try to keep the volume at a reasonable level. It gets loud, but not excessive. 

It may not actually be harming them physically, but it probably scares the bejesus out of em.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

varanoid said:


> My frogs have always been kept in the living room where the tv and strereo are kept, though I wonder if they would be better in a more quiet part of the house as well. I don't think that they are very negatively affected, but then again, they havn't personally told me.
> 
> True jungles are noisy, but not as concussing as a surround sound or a set of drums. We try to keep the volume at a reasonable level. It gets loud, but not excessive.
> 
> It may not actually be harming them physically, but it probably scares the bejesus out of em.


There is something to be said for having a certain amount of traffic and noise around your frogs. They will get used to some noise and people peeking in at them all the time. They soon learn that a giant face does NOT equal the end of the world. But drums are a different matter. It should be mentioned that it is possible to scare/stress a frog to death. There are stories of people trying to catch a frog, chasing him around the viv for a while, only to have him flop over dead.
I think the fact that the drums are only played once or twice a month, might actually be worse. It would be unknown, frightening and new every time.
I don't want to scare you away from frogs...I hope you can find a different area of the house where it would be somewhat muted.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

A lot of people keep tanks in high traffic noisy areas in the house. There's no real problem with _noise_ around frogs. The issue, I suspect, would be with the _type_ of noise. I'm thinking specifically of the bass drum on a drum set. It's highly concussive and I can usually feel it in my chest. I suspect that kind of noise could damage your frogs. Usually I don't think it would be much of an issue.


----------



## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

when i played in a band, the best day of my life was the one when we got the big acrylic "tank" to hide the drummer in. all of a sudden i could hear EVERYTHING. plus we could make fun of him while he sat back there in an aquarium getting pummeled by the sound of his own pounding. 

i have nothing really new or valuable to say... it seems the consensus is that while noisy rooms aren't too bad, a drum set seems over the top. 

maybe you should sell that kit on craigslist and buy one of those sweet/dorky electronic drum kits where you get to hear everything in your headphones? and/or cage the drumset w/ some legit anechoic sound deadening material. you could take some of those asian style portable partitions and cover the inside of them w/ giant foam spikes and cut way down on the sound getting out. sounds like a fun project.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> It should be mentioned that it is possible to scare/stress a frog to death. There are stories of people trying to catch a frog, chasing him around the viv for a while, only to have him flop over dead.
> .


When looking at this possibility one has to keep in mind that there are a lot of physiological factors in play as well such as calcium reserves, and rate of anaerobic metabolites building up in the tissues.. 

Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When evaluating these sorts of situations.. there can be a lot of variables and the effects can be very subtle (see for example http://faculty.maryvillecollege.edu/crain/Thesis/French.pdf). 

There are differences in responses depending on the sound as some can interfere with the frog or trigger the frogs to call (see for examples JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie and http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1744-7429.2008.00452.x/full ) 

However we should consider that as an both calling detection and avoidence mechanism, many amphibians readily sense ground vibrations. Concussive vibrations are probably going to be responded to differently than simply a loud background sound.. 

I would suspect that if the frogs were taped well before, during and after the drum session, a difference in behaviors may be noted.. 

Some thoughs... 

Ed


----------



## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

alright there were alot of mixdd opinions lol im taking it as a general no? i mean i have mudskippers down there already and they dont seem to be bothered much by it? Theyre still kickin at almost a year since i got them


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Mudskippers shouldn't be compared to darts.....I wouldn't do it, err on the side of caution for the frogs.....


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

lilherp25 said:


> alright there were alot of mixdd opinions lol im taking it as a general no? i mean i have mudskippers down there already and they dont seem to be bothered much by it? Theyre still kickin at almost a year since i got them


Yes, it's a no. 
The creatures may live, but they are more fragile than mudskippers most likely and certainly have a higher ecological value, right? It is important that they retain the ability to hear. It's also possible there could be some other types of internal tissue damage from noises that are too loud, and this might be unseen. Many consider it abuse to subject an animal to high decibels for noise for the duration of their existence. Besides possible internal damage and stress, the long-term effects may include difficulty behaving normally, breeding, hiding out from stress, etc. They also have a very active nervous system, and the stimulus might induce a sort of shock reaction where they become unable to function normally during the event. 
They are very small creatures, too. The risk of damage is higher b/c of their size.


----------

