# Zaparo



## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

The first clutch from a group of 4 zaparo that I picked up from Tor Linbo at IAD this past May. So far so good which is a pleasant surprise.










Bill


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## xfrogx (Jul 5, 2006)

Wow Bill Congrats!


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

Nice job, Bill. Keep us informed on how they do. Do you have any pics of the parents? Thanks for sharing,
Scott


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

My first group of eggs from my Zaparo were fertile as well. I lost the clutch in less than a week though - but I think that was more my husbandry than the tads (not used to these giant clutches :wink: ). The clutches since have been doing well though.

Very cool frog.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Some of the parental group....



















Oz in some ways Epip tads are far more sensitive to environmental conditions than Dendros...it is odd as some Epip species/morphs are rock solid and their nearest neighbors are finicky beyond belief. Early clutches seem to be especially sensitive although I suspect part of that is due to the keeper figuring out what works best for that particular frog.

Bill


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Bill, after seeing post after post after post of your success I am sure in admiration. My only question is... what species have you not been successful with !?  Congrats!


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## verbal (Sep 8, 2004)

Bill,

Two quick questions, as I too bought some zaparos at IAD... Where did yours lay, and how big are the parents now? Mine are growing, but slowly. I've heard nothing from my group of three yet, and I guess I'm just getting anxious.

Thanks
Ryan


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Congrats Bill, best of luck. 
Have you had any problem w/ seizing? When I brought them in they all siezed and died w/in the first week. They were imports though.
When am I going to see pics of a clutch of silverstonei?  
Those are really hi on my wishlist! Seeing you tackle all these epis has got me hoping!


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## Nuggular (Apr 8, 2005)

Good to hear Bill. Keep up the good work


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Thanks for the comments.

Stace - trust me there are quite a few frogs that won't breed for me (galacts, standard lamasi - well they breed but no fertile eggs, some of my pumilio, fants - once again no fertile eggs, aurotenia). In fairness some of these frogs are still young and I have to experiment with conditions for them.

Verbal - adults are a little over 1 inch long. I acquired the zaps from Tor at IAD in May and heard nothing for several months. Figuring I was just unlucky in the sexing draw, I went ahead and got three more zaparo from Darren Meyer at NWFF in late July figuring I would mix the groups (carefully I might add) down the road. Had Darren's frogs in the usual quarantine. Came home from MWFF and heard a male zap from Tor's group calling for the first time and eggs came a few days later. They are laying on a plastic petri dish under a cocohut. Now I have to figure out if Darren's trio has male - female since I don't want to disturb the dynamic of Tor's group :roll: 

Aaron - I haven't seen any seizing but am aware that they are unusually sensitive to shipping. Darren shared with me that he has had terrible luck with shipping even zaparo that are well along. Hand carrying them to meetings and subsequent transport to the new owner seems to work better for I am 7 out of 7. Tor shared an interesting data point that mixing unrelated groups together can cause real issues from an aggression perspective and that he was only selling groups at IAD that had been reared together. 

As for silverstonei, well that's a nice thought. Finding some breeders could be problematic.

Bill


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## verbal (Sep 8, 2004)

Aaron,
I had a problem with seizing during their quarantine period. I had some shipped to me that faired poorly, most of the group died in the first two to three weeks of being with me. They literally would jump all around their enclosure when I fed them, and then their back legs would straighten out behind them and they would die within a day. The ones I picked up at IAD have been great - no problems.

Bill,
My largest is just over an inch, so hopefully I'll hear some calling soon. Unfortunately, the zaparo are next to my leucs, and I heard a call this week that I chalked up as a leuc just warming up. Now i wonder...


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I had a group shipped to me last year (as adults) that were all dead withing 72 hours. But this species is notorious for not shipping well. Picking them up is probably the best bet; also the frogs I got from Tor were nearly full size (calling within a week of IAD).

Verbal - Even with them being next to your Leucs - you would hear them calling :lol: Do you have Darren Meyer's frog call CD? There is a track of Zaparo calls that is great. Play it for your group and see what happens. And in contrast to Bill's group - mine prefer to lay in black film canisters on their side on the substrate. They have a coco hut/petri dish - but so far all clutches have been laid in the film canisters.


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## verbal (Sep 8, 2004)

That CD is great. I play it nearly every day I'm in the frogroom. Oh, and our newborn son loves it, too. I've got some fim canisters in there at ground level; I guess I'll put in a coco hut just for more options.
Thanks guys!


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill,
Those are really amazing pics of the adults! In real life, are those guys as burgundy colored as they appear to be in pics? How long have these guys been in the hobby? I don't remember hearing a lot about them, and then it seemed a lot of people had them. Is there a memo I missed? Thanks,
Scott


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Congrats Bill!! Man those guys are gorgeous!


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Others will have to chime in on the zaps longetivity in the US hobby but so far they appear to have limited distribution. Their coloration is simply fantastic and my photos don't do justice to them. The burgundy red is definitely there. Corey has some nice shots in the Zaparo caresheet.

I haven't supplied them with film cannisters so they ended up using the coco hut. My hahneli had both film cannisters and petri dish/coco hut and decided to use leaves and the petri dish :lol: Well they did decide the film cannisters made great places to poop so I suppose they did use them :roll: 

As for their call, it is somewhat muted and I have only heard it close to lights out in the evening. I did use Darren's CD to confirm the call but Gina had already figured out who was calling 8) 

I love Epips and think they are terribly underrated. Between the anthonyi, bassleri, tricolor and trivittatus, the frog room is filled with song most of the day. I was talking to someone on the phone the other day and they said 'you sound like you are in the middle of the jungle' and I was like yep I am 

Bill


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

the saying pictures don't do them justice is correct. they are really nice looking frogs. they have that shimmering color. if i knew more about them i would of gotten some at iad. tor did tell me about them in the conversation i had with him. congrats on the frogs bill.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Mine breed in black film canisters laying on the ground. I have had mine breeding since about the day after I put them in the tank. So far I have not had much luck with the tads, but I have heard that is not uncommon with them as young breeders.

Also the loudest frog I own... when they get going wow can it be loud.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

They will never be as bright and obvious as something like an azureus, I usually see them as a flash of ruby on the leaves  I unfortunately can relate on how bad they travel... I was a good learning experience for Darren  I wanted to pick up some of the zaparo at IAD, but I was going to move a few weeks after the show (moving is when I've lost most of mine tho my last move went relatively well). Unfotunately I've not had any breeding out of mine, mostly because they are males and I haven't mixed groups. These guys are just so freaking aggressive I don't even know if I want to mess with mixing them!

Mine have always called the most when the sun comes up, and only short burts periodically the rest of the day. Mine called relatively small, but they were in my bedroom so I heard the first chirps. A few months later it was full blast... and they were moved out of my bedroom LOL.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Thanks for posting the pics Corey. Interestingly enough, I find that 2 out of the 4 zaps are pretty outgoing and can be seen almost always out in the leaf litter.

Plus I found another egg clutch under the cocohut so they are going to be one of those frogs :? First clutch developing nicely but the tadpoles aren't hatched yet. I think I'll leave the second clutch in the viv and see if I can catch them transporting to water.

Bill


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I can't tell the individual zaps apart except for where they are... the males are very territorial and since i have seemingly close to all males I can generally do a head count of most of them. He has that coco hut, he has that bit of cork bark, etc.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

The first froglet out of the water and appears to be in good health. Siblings not far behind.... Crummy photo but I didn't want to stress it too much.

Bill


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Good to see they are doing well. I think I may have them coming out of my ears rather soon. I already have a good number out of the water. They do seem a little fragile, but so far the majority of my offspring are doing well.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

they are adorable! kinda like mantellas in that they pretty up with age.


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

Nice job!

I'm glad to hear they are doing well in de US. They seem to be disappearing from the European hobby. Very few people still have some, and I haven't heard of anyone breeding them in the past two years. They where still quite common about three years ago. I'm afraid many have died... 
I actually don't know of more than one guy who still has some.

Remco


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## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

*Is that Methylene Blue*

Is the Petri dish blue because of Meth. Blue?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

My offspring are doing very well also. Great to see people having success with them. I have a good number out of the water - but I think the true test will be in getting them to people safely (pickup vs. shipping).


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

*Re: Is that Methylene Blue*



TDK said:


> Is the Petri dish blue because of Meth. Blue?


Yes.

Bill


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I agree oz, but I do want to attempt to ship some to someone. In my opinion more than a couple of the old statements like this have been disproven over the years.


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## thekidgecko (Oct 30, 2006)

Might sound like reverse logic, but you might try to ship them as tads.

Beautiful frogs man. I'm really digging your epips. Which is most bold? My trivi's hid the whole time I had them. :?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Shipping tads has experienced worse outcomes (or just as bad I guess - a dead tad is no different than a dead frog) than froglets. Corey had experiences with this where they practically exploded I believe.

In talking to Tor - he mentioned that shipping very-well started frogs is the best. But - you don't want to wait until they are adults - as then there are the stresses of shipping adults, which generally fare worse than younger frogs.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

DO NOT SHIP TADS!!! Do no ship juvies. Preferably don't ship them at any stage in life! Hold onto your juvies and sell them as subadults if you can!

The tads will die when carried onto plans. Not sure why, other tads transported with them at the same time had no issues... the tads had looked like they had exploded. Very odd.

Small shipping containers also seem to be problematic. Getting them into the tiny containers is super stressful. They spaz. You want them in the tiny containers as little time as possible.

I'm hoping to rebuild my zaparo group and actually get what I have breeding... and I plan to get them from people who can hopefully hand carry them to an east coast show!


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## thekidgecko (Oct 30, 2006)

That is very odd... possibly something to do with the altitude/pressure?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> I'm hoping to rebuild my zaparo group and actually get what I have breeding... and I plan to get them from people who can hopefully hand carry them to an east coast show!


If you send me a male Salvias - I will more than make it worth your while with Zaps in the spring :lol:


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Is it really that bad shipping these? Any theories to why?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

My first group of Zaparo were shipped - 4 adults. All were dead within 48 hours of arrival. I had heard about problems before - and my case was no exception. 

IIRC - Darren Meyer won't offer live arrival guarantee on Zaps. So - there is something about the stresses of shipping.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Not only does Darren have terrible trouble shipping them, I know that in the past Tor would refuse to ship them at all.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

So then I guess my question is, if they dont ship well, how did they get over here in the first place?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Shows... I picked my group up from Tor at the last IAD.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

No, I know that. I mean ORIGINALLY. You know, when they were imported. I highly doubt someone drove down to S.A to bring them back... or maybe they did.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

While I do not know about these for sure normally imports are rather large groups. So I would guess there were high losses and the survivors are what we have offspring from.


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