# Reptiles magazine article



## JBR (May 8, 2006)

Was at the local book store today and I read Reptiles Magazine's new article on keeping a terrarium. They mixed 
-at least half a dozen different types of PDFs 
-rough green snake
-pygmy chameleons
and lots of stuff I can't remember I was surprised to see this and I was wondering what everyone else's opinion on the subject was


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

What are the details of the article? How big was the tank? Was it a big display/zoo type thing? 

Here's a discussion on Zoos and such: http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4532


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## JBR (May 8, 2006)

It was a privately owned setup and it was less than 200 gallons but I have a horrendous memory so I don't know the specifics

John


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I haven't got my recent issue but there was one several years ago that was questionable... 

Ed


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## porkchop48 (May 16, 2006)

6' long 3' wide 4' tall. Jungle pool sections of about 30 gals 
LOcated in a "historic craftsmans home in Claremount, Calif"
SNAKES
1 rough green snake

LIZARDS
2 long tailed grass lizards
2 angulated day geckos
2 neon day geckos
6 bearded pygmy chameleons

AMPHIBIANS
1 blue poison dart frog
2 yellow banded poison frog
1 golden poison frog
1 black and green poison frog
1 orange splash back poison frog
1 Patricia morph dyeing poison frog
2 strawberry poison frogs
8 polka dotted argus redd frogs
8 spotted reed frogs

FIsh
6 leopard danios
6 gold tetras
16 neon tetras
6 firehead tetras
4 cherry barbs
6 threadfin rainbowfish
1 Malabar pufferfish
4 golden otocinclus
2 panda corydoras
2 Schwartz Catfish
2 sucker-belly loaches

INVERTEBRATES
1 Brazilian yellow belly grass hrimp
3 Malaysian rainbow shrimp
20 red cherry shrimp
13 olive nerites
10 small cone snails
1 spiney flower praying mantis

There i think I got them all. Roughly 72 cubis feet ( 540 gals)

I think it is pretty crammed but just my opinion


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## RBroskie (Jan 21, 2007)

wow, thats crazy! doesnt really sound like a good idea if you ask me. i think that rough green snake could probably get down a gecko or two at some point if nothing else. im no expert but i agree with the previous comment, that seems a bit cramped. 500+ gallons is alot of space but for all these animals that come from different parts of the globe(i think) it just doesnt seem like a good idea.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Except that rough green snakes are insectivores. 

Ed


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

The article is by Rex Lee Searcy, and photos are by Mike Enyart...I have known both since 2000, and they are simply an UNBELIEVABLE wealth of knowledge. Back in the day Rex had a green house that had hundreds of E. Tricolor living freely. I am sure there will be some "Ooops" but the pics I saw of the tank were EXTREMELY impressive! I'm sure we can get into the "Mixing species" debate, but I think it's been played out pretty heavily. 6' X 3' X 4' is HUGE. I am getting ready to move in a 150 gallon we just bought for our turtle, and the thing is pretty big, this thing is twice as wide, 1 and a half times as long, and twice as tall...and heavily planted creating all sorts of "territories". I am super impressed with anyone willing to take on a project of this size! Did you see the wood work on the canopy?? Damn...

Mike
http://www.snmreptiles.com


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## RBroskie (Jan 21, 2007)

yeah did a little research on the rough green snake and seems your right ed


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## JBR (May 8, 2006)

the part that concerns me is the mixture of wc and cb animals but it seems like an interesting idea (not something I'd consider)


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## RBroskie (Jan 21, 2007)

yeah thats a huge project to say the least :shock:


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Mike,

The first major concern I have as a professional is the intermixing of species from different zoogeographic zones as we are seeing some major issues from this practice showing up in the wild (For example chytrid transferred from Xenopus laevis, the mycobaterial infections wiping out the tortoises native to the USA and now showing up in Terrapene, and the various locality/species specific iridio, tiger salamander and rana viruses. This is of real concern because this is allowing these pathogens (those that have not already) spread to new hosts as the animals for at least a period of time are immunosuppressed in the new enclosure allowing for an increased shedding and transmission. 

This is also a problem because the waste sysytem (particuarly for water) is not set up to deal with novel pathogens such as the ones that can show up in this sort of systems. Most of the larger cites for example, have thier storm drains empty into the sewer lines for waste treatment so when there is a sufficiently heavy rain, the plants cannot take the flow and divert the water into the waterways.... 

If there is going to be multispecies enclosures then they should be done on as correct a Zoogeographic manner as possible.... 

Some comments,

Ed


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## mattmcdole (Nov 28, 2006)

snmreptiles said:


> The article is by Rex Lee Searcy, and photos are by Mike Enyart...I have known both since 2000, and they are simply an UNBELIEVABLE wealth of knowledge. Back in the day Rex had a green house that had hundreds of E. Tricolor living freely. I am sure there will be some "Ooops" but the pics I saw of the tank were EXTREMELY impressive! I'm sure we can get into the "Mixing species" debate, but I think it's been played out pretty heavily. 6' X 3' X 4' is HUGE. I am getting ready to move in a 150 gallon we just bought for our turtle, and the thing is pretty big, this thing is twice as wide, 1 and a half times as long, and twice as tall...and heavily planted creating all sorts of "territories". I am super impressed with anyone willing to take on a project of this size! Did you see the wood work on the canopy?? Damn...
> 
> Mike
> http://www.snmreptiles.com


I too know Mike Enyeart personally, and have met Rex on a number of occasions. They are both extremely knowledgeable gentlemen, and I would point out that they are two very successful and well-respected men in the reptile industry. Regarding Rex's greenhouse, it's my understanding that the tricolor did so well in there that the populations boomed and crashed a number of times until they struck a balance with the available food. And it was nigh impossible to walk through it for fear of committing mass genocide.

As far as the example of species mixing is concerned. So what? From what I know of the viv is that it was built specifically for the article as an example. Pygmy chameleons and rough green snakes look great in picture vivs, but rough green snakes have a reputation for not thriving in captivity. The chameleons will die in such an enclosure with so much moisture and so little air flow. The day geckos and long-tailed lizards will die a slow death without ultraviolet B radiation. There are more glaringly obvious problems than chytrid and mycobacteria... The whole project was destined to fail in some way or another.

It's a seven year old news article, not a nuclear bomb... Relax guys. Why not just take it for what it was intended to be? A fantastically unreasonable project that made a good magazine article and ended up being a source of inspiration for many of us.


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## JBR (May 8, 2006)

> It's a seven year old news article, not a nuclear bomb


I read it in this months "Reptiles"
not being difficult just wondering if they hold their articles that long

John


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> Why not just take it for what it was intended to be? A fantastically unreasonable project that made a good magazine article and ended up being a source of inspiration for many of us.


That's the problem, it's inspiration for the uneducated. Many new people to the reptile hobby don't understand this is an unreasonable project and think that because they saw it in a magazine that it's ok to do.


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## mattmcdole (Nov 28, 2006)

A new article then apparently, will have to check it out. Still doesn't change the argument.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It is not uncommon for Reptiles to hold articles for long periods of time. The spotted turtle article I wrote for them was held for 12 or 13 years.. 


Ed


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## Jungle_John (Feb 19, 2007)

defaced said:


> > Why not just take it for what it was intended to be? A fantastically unreasonable project that made a good magazine article and ended up being a source of inspiration for many of us.
> 
> 
> That's the problem, it's inspiration for the uneducated. Many new people to the reptile hobby don't understand this is an unreasonable project and think that because they saw it in a magazine that it's ok to do.


i agree with this for when i first thought about keeping darts i wanted a mixed tank like the zoo's. but after research I saw it as a no no. alot of people dont do the correct research when getting into hobbys. hell i did alot but probly not still enought. what im trying to say is yes that type of tank gets people into the hobby. but after killing alot of animals and finding out the hard way a tank like that most likly cant be maintain well they leave the hobby. i would think its better to have less people in the hobby and keep more frogs (or any animal) alive then having a hobby boom for a few months.


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Back when I kept my first darts (Late 90's) there wasn't a "Dendroboard" and the internet wasn't a "Big" thing...I had a stamp collection for my first dart tank. A blue jeans pum (Still my favorite frog I've ever had, actually got it from Amazon Reptile!!), a leuc, and auratus, and a powder blue. All thrived, even though looking back, I still don't know how. There really wasn't the "pool" of information that there is now, and I did what I thought was cool!!

Now I'm gonna get real for a quick second! I can only imagine this project is somewhere near $5K for just the tank, stand, filters, lights, and hardware (And that guess is probably low ball). Probably another 1 or 2 thousand in animals. IF a person new to reptiles spends that kind of money without doing research first, I don't feel sorry for them at all!! I feel sorry for the animals that aren't getting the care they deserve, but it happens all the time. Not only with frogs but plenty of others. I always feel soooooo bad for the 2" baby veiled chameleon that was just purchased at the show for a 7 year old that is walking around with it perched on his shoulder...So as far as the newbies are going to get frustrated with the hobby...it doesn't really fly with me. Most of us got into this hobby because we like little blue, yellow, green frogs, and then it becomes a passion that we just can't learn enough about. EVERYONE is going to lose a frog or two every once in a while. It's the people that learn from their mistakes and others, and tries not to make them again that I like to see in this hobby.

My .02 
Mike
http://www.snmreptiles.com


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