# New bill introduced to the house and fish/game



## stephen-mcginn (Sep 26, 2010)

Regular Session 2011-2012 House Bill 2233 P.N. 3155 

This bill is basically saying that if you dont have a permit for non-native species, they are taking away and disposed of. If you already own one they give a "grace period" before it goes in act of 30 days. if it passes it will be jan 1, 2013. Its in Pennsylvania but Maryland and Delaware are already screwed up with herps. With pa being as lean-ant as it is, this just gives md and de a good idea to stop other herpers from owning them as well. Not to mention the hamburg, reading shows...which has venomous as well as no-venomous herps. 

Read this bill and help stop it!!!


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## thadmy (Dec 3, 2011)

This bill is ridiculous for the simple fact that they have to see that you have a proper set-up for them before you can be given the permit. So they are going to send people into your son/daughter's room and look at their reptile set-up.....

Yeah the Berks Reptile show is one of the best in the country and I'm glad I moved out of Pa with this law coming into effect. What I don't get is does the permit just cover one snake or all the snakes you have and secondly how do they define a breeder. 

I myself don't breed snakes but I currently have 8 snakes, 5 frogs, and 3 lizards. Would I be considered a breeder or no...

After the python ban I figured we'd start seeing laws in almost every state and to me its a joke, for the most part we don't hurt anyone with our hobby and they are going to make it harder and harder to enjoy something that I frankly have been a part of for the last 18 years.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Not another one?!?!?!?

'Cuz we all know the best way to protect the environment is by completely cutting off everybody's contact with nature.


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## sdlyager (Jan 30, 2012)

We have a similiar bill they are trying to pass in WV. I just hope it doesn't get the backing they hope for and can maybe spend their money and resources on something to actually help the community.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Is there any kind of pet industry trade organization doing anything to address these kinds of legislation?


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## sdlyager (Jan 30, 2012)

People have put out the links to email their state representatives etc but nothing else that I've seen (atleast at this point)


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## sdlyager (Jan 30, 2012)

USARK has provided us with a prewritten template and an easy way to email our Senators, and House Representatives. The forms are simple to fill out, just include your name, address, and email. Below is the link for both bills. You have to click both links. You might get a few bounce back emails, but the majority of them are going through.

Link 1
USARK (For Senate Bill 477)

Link 2
USARK (For House Bill 4344)


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## stephen-mcginn (Sep 26, 2010)

It sucks because I just moved to pa aswell. I know max pet is giving emails out for the bills in pa.


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

This is just another excuse to charge $25 bucks per permit to make extra cash, they dont care about who has what but if they can make some money, why not.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

mahji said:


> This is just another excuse to charge $25 bucks per permit to make extra cash, they dont care about who has what but if they can make some money, why not.


Well, I agree this is about making money, but I think it is also about cataloging who has what. I think the FL situation brought attention to the fact that the government really has no record as to who has what animals...


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## jchollenb (Mar 30, 2010)

The govt doesnt know who has what guns.... Maybe they should concentrate on something that may really save lives, rather than pick on people who want to keep harmless herps and amphibs.


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## BrianWI (Feb 4, 2012)

It isn't about the permit. The permit cost won't cover the expenditure, so you will see your tax dollars go to the program eventually. Then the costs become invisible to anyone outside of government and you wont complain how much is wasted.


SMALLER GOVERNMENT sorely needed.


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

cbreon said:


> Well, I agree this is about making money, but I think it is also about cataloging who has what. I think the FL situation brought attention to the fact that the government really has no record as to who has what animals...


Florida and warm climate areas are different, if i drop off a boa in NYC i am 100% positive it wont make it through the winter.


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

This to me is another excuse to get more money out of people , and as stated above there are more things to be worrying about than a few bearded dragons in someones house. The economy for one.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

jchollenb said:


> The govt doesnt know who has what guns.... Maybe they should concentrate on something that may really save lives, rather than pick on people who want to keep harmless herps and amphibs.


Well, I would agree the gov't could be solving bigger issues. But assuming the gun is registered, they do have access to who has what. If the weapon is not registered that is a entirely different problem.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

mahji said:


> Florida and warm climate areas are different, if i drop off a boa in NYC i am 100% positive it wont make it through the winter.


Aligators have been found living in the NYC sewer system so I wouldn't be so sure...


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

mahji said:


> This to me is another excuse to get more money out of people , and as stated above there are more things to be worrying about than a few bearded dragons in someones house. The economy for one.


100% agree


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

cbreon said:


> Aligators have been found living in the NYC sewer system so I wouldn't be so sure...


Im not sure how much truth there is to that story. I do know some might have been found but alot of that is myth, plus i do not see an alligator making it year round in sewers,no large prey items, no heat. . . . . From what i understand alot of those found were dropped off pets.


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

cbreon said:


> Well, I would agree the gov't could be solving bigger issues. But assuming the gun is registered, they do have access to who has what. If the weapon is not registered that is a entirely different problem.


We can not compare guns to animals, am iguana is not going to go around killing people and as far as poisonous animals those should definetly need permits. Idiots with guns, idiots with pets.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

mahji said:


> We can not compare guns to animals, am iguana is not going to go around killing people and as far as poisonous animals those should definetly need permits. Idiots with guns, idiots with pets.


For s's and g's

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8emhCA&usg=AFQjCNEIG8yZnUSb6VtFcvCDI9D8wSsTEA

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8emhCA&usg=AFQjCNFOztLo-bJ435fCndiTnGfZ1DDnYQ

also, I did not bring guns into this discussion and I agree it is a poor analogy.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mahji said:


> Florida and warm climate areas are different, if i drop off a boa in NYC i am 100% positive it wont make it through the winter.


The problem is that 
1) this is not humane... 
2) other pets require a "permit" (license (dogs, possibly cats)
3) it ignores how the general public percieves the risk from the snake

Utilizing this as a rational really isn't appropriate since it ignores a lot of problems with it. I agree that having the risk of invasiveness being used as a reason to ban interstate travel or require a permit isn't a good reason for those species that cannot colonize those regions but stupidity on thier part should not be used to as an excuse for stupidity on our part. 

Ed


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

Ed said:


> The problem is that
> 1) this is not humane...
> 2) other pets require a "permit" (license (dogs, possibly cats)
> 3) it ignores how the general public percieves the risk from the snake
> ...


I very much agree.


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

cbreon said:


> For s's and g's
> 
> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8emhCA&usg=AFQjCNEIG8yZnUSb6VtFcvCDI9D8wSsTEA
> 
> ...



Yeah these are all small alligators, probably let loose a week before, maybe more . Unless the guy from Brooklyn ( who had the alligator and tiger in his house ) lets his pets go u wont be seeing a large full grown allie ..


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## mahji (Mar 11, 2012)

I cant for the life of me see an animal like that make it in subway with only rats to eat ( if he can catch them) and no sun light . But getting back to subject, i do not agree with alot of these bans. Why can i go to jersey and buy an iguana and not NY , stuff like that.


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