# E. anthonyi egg & tad questions



## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

So, my E. anthonyis (7 and 10 months old when they started laying eggs) have now laid eggs three times (there might actually be a fourth batch somewhere in their tank since the males have been acting a bit differently again). First time wasn't successful, second time I didn't even notice before the eggs were about 3-5 days old and all white, third time looked promising at first, two off the eggs looked more whitish than others then darkened a bit, but all of them started to get the pale area in the dark park of the egg and then getting lighter. 

It has been now 17 days since these were laid and I removed them a few days ago after I didn't see the male going near the eggs for a day or two. I still haven't disposed them since I'm trying to figure out the reason why they didn't develop right.

The weird part is that they look like they have developed a bit and they aren't totally white like the last ones that didn't make it. The whitish line in the middle of some of the eggs is a bit elevated from other parts of the eggs. 

How do these look to you? Are they unfertilized or fertilized but something went wrong? Well, this thread might just be a waste of forum space, since I can't do anything else than just feed the frogs well and not stress them or try to help them with egg care, but still I would like to know if they were even partly successful this time.

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Here's the eggs with the daddy in day two:









Edit: I changed the post subject to give a better idea of the thread.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

A lot of time fertilized eggs just go bad, especially with young parents. For tricolors (or anthonyii depending on preference) under a year is a pretty young but not unheard of breeding age. With time they will get it right and be able to make it all the way, but it doesn't really sound like you did anything wrong.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I get that with all of my Tricolors... So far no good eggs at all, and they are over a year old.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Satu,

The majority of those eggs look to be unfertilized. Males will abandon egg clutches once it is clear that development is not proceeding, at least from my observations. The good news is that you have male and female frogs and they are running through the breeding drill. In time they will get it right.

Good luck and keep them well fed. I fed twice daily for a couple of months when my SIs started breeding to make sure the females didn't become depleted. Perhaps not necessary but at least I felt like I was doing something positive 

Bill


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you all for the encouragement. It does look like they are doing better and better every time, these ones look better than the last ones. I will try to stay patient and not mess with the frogs in an attempt to help them in any way. Especially now because...

We have developing eggs! 

I can see 8 duds and 11 developing ones, the film canister is in a difficult position for me to see well so I had to take a picture to see what's inside. The male is different this time.

How old would you say these eggs are?


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

The developing babies are already moving inside the eggs.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

I just have to say Satu, gorgeous frogs!!


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you. It's so fascinating to watch their daily lives and now the dad caring for the developing eggs. I hope I'll get to see and photograph the male carrying tads. Anthonyis really are such active, bold and pretty frogs.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Looks like it won't be long till they hatch. I have no idea how long it will take, but I hope it doesn't happen on Thursday or Friday since I'll be away then (well, I do think it will take longer than that before they hatch). 










Edit: It's now Saturday (10.3.). The external gill branches have started to wither away and the color of the tad is much darker, the eyes and mouth look just about fully formed and they move around a lot. The male is watching over them all the time now. 

And to answer my own question. Now when I've had the chance to follow the development of these eggs and of another batch that the other male neglected to care for once again, I would say that when I first spotted the eggs, they were around day 6 and now it's about day 15:










Here's the development so far (large file with about 2 photos per day).


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

One has already hatched (I think it hatched between 10.3. 17:50 and 11.3. 02:10) and is moving around a bit. Should the male spot that one and carry it alone to the pond or do they normally wait for all of them to hatch before they start transporting tads?

I was wondering if I should leave them alone until the male starts to transport the tads, but the problem is that I can't see what's happening inside the film canister unless I take a picture. What do you think? The male doesn't seem to get stressed even when I snap a picture twice a day, but maybe he would now since it needs to start thinking about picking the tads up and stuff.










Edit: At least 3 of them have hatched now, probably a few more, 6 eggs seem to still be intact with tads inside.

Edit, 14.3.: All of the tads are now in the water. So, the first tad hatched 11.3. (probably day 16), some hatched the next day and most of them hatched early on 13.3. (probably day 18 ). The male picked them up some time before mid day of 13.3. and the last tad was deposited this evening, 14.3. and there's 11 of them.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I can see their little tiny front legs underneath the protecting skin. It's so cute (I hope they won't be tiny when they pop). But my question doesn't concern tads legs or anything like that.

Is it OK to use a container where I've kept one of the tads fathers for a week when I was giving him some extra attention when he had gotten a bit thin after caring for too many egg clutches in a row? I don't think the male was sick, it just hadn't been eating much. And the tads did live in the main terrariums pond for a while and have, of course, been in contact with the same water as all the frogs in the main tank. 

So, do you think it would fine? It would be nice to use the container as it is, since there's a nice springtail colony so it would be ideal for the newly morphed froglets. But I want to avoid exposing the young ones to extra germs if I can. I'm not sure if this would be considered something that could be unhealthy to the froglets or not. I think I'm being a bit too overprotective again, but it's better to check than to worry by myself.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Wow those pictures are fantastic!


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you.  I should try to take some good pictures of the tads too, but they don't have as much light as the adults terrarium has and the water is so tinted that I haven't actually felt like trying to take good ones, I've just snapped some to show the progress. I might need to build a tank that's good for photographing purposes too and add enough lighting and then grow some tads there. 

So, first one popped it's front legs last night, here's it today. The front legs look skinny and I wouldn't be surprised if this is SLS. I do hope I am wrong.



















And one other thing. There seems to be one tad that already has one front leg out, but the other one hasn't popped yet. The problem is that the toes of that leg are sticking out on the side of the already popped leg, so it's like slipped all the way through. I wonder if the tad is able to pull the leg out when it's positioned that way (sort of like an arm in a straight jacket). I can't help it, can I?


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

Congrats on all the little guys/gals. IMO, it does not look like SLS. It looks fine. I can't wait until our Santa Isabels start this whole process. I don't think that there is anything you could do to help its leg to come out. Give it time. We have had a few froglets that popped a front leg one day and didn't pop the other for a couple days. It sounds like you took them out of the terrarium pond? What are they in now?


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you. I'm glad you think the legs are fine. They look so small, well, the tads look so small cute that it's just amazing how this sized little ones are able to live on their own in the wild.  

Oh, I didn't remember to tell where the tads have been living after the dad transported them to the terrarium pond. I let them stay there for a day and then moved them to a small container with about 1 liter of water, some indian almond leaves and a small piece of pothos. After a week or so I moved them to an aquarium with more almond leaves, pothos and other plants (Süsswassertang, Riccia, and Mini Moss as the aquatic plants) and I slowly added water until there was about 20 liters total. I use tap water (it's really pure around here) and did water changes once a week and added a new indian almond leaf every time (and used Prime as a water conditioner). I've been feeding them Tadpole Bites, Cyclop-Eeze, some occasional New Life Spectrum pellet, dead FFs and Naturose. The water temperature has been somewhere between 22 and 24 degrees Celsius. 

I spotted first back legs when the tads were about 6 weeks old and now the oldest ones are 7 weeks and 4 days old. 

I moved the biggest ones that had clearly bulging elbows to a slightly tilted container with shallow water and a land area on the other side. It's mimicking the basic setups people have, some moss and small pothos in the water area, sphagnum moss in the land area. The one with both legs has already visited the land area too, but seems to feel more comfortable still in the water. 

When the tads will clearly be staying in the land area more, I'll move them one by one to their first small terrarium (of course with a shallow water area so if they need it, they can use it). It's cool how fast these are transforming. Even the mouth is looking different already.  

I've moved the first one to it's first terrarium and it's been moving on land a lot, but it does go back to water once in a while and it has it's tail still left.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

It's sad, the tad with one trapped front leg drowned some time last night. Now I can't stop thinking that if I would have caught it, kept it on it's back and cut the skin pouch to free the leg I might have been able to save it. But then again, maybe the leg was too sprained to even work well. 

I thought I had more time to get a scalpel or something and think about it since the tad even jumped around in the land area a bit and I didn't think it would drown. 










Well, one more climbed to land today so I have now 2 jumping on land with rapidly shrinking tails, 1 dead, 4 with one front leg already popped and 4 with no popped front legs of the oldest batch.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

The froglets are now active, jumping around their container and climbing the walls. One froglet seems to have found a nice spot between the lid and the side wall where there's a small terrace, it's a tight fit, but the froglet seems to like it there. 










May 13th:


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