# 30 gallon rock background build journal



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

G'day everyone! For those of you who followed my first build http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/78447-65-gallon-display-hopefully-tank.html I'm now working on a second vivarium. I'm quite pleased with how that one turned out, however there are definitely a few things that I would do a little differently if I started it again from scratch. 

To all the newcomers to this hobby who read or follow this thread: You will almost always wish you had done something differently in regards to vivarium construction. To lessen the chance of strange things happening, or a complete FUBAR (of which I have had a couple!), my advice would be to get some practice on some cheap sheet glass, some used 5 gallon tanks, and experiment with the materials and techniques you plan on using before you even touch the tank you want to work on. 

I'm still not 100% certain what species will be calling this vivarium home. I had originally intended it to house a Lampropeltis (kingsnake) but I think the tank is too small to achieve the look I had originally planned on, as well as being potentially a little small for the snake. For those of you interested in reading me waffling about which plants to use for my original plans and being helped by experts, here's the link http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/81276-plants-suitable-lampropeltis.html

I'm thinking this vivarium will house either P. terribilis or D. auratus. Possibly amereega or trivittatus. All depends on which ones colours my wife prefers 

Plan for the tank. Artificial rock background (because I want to try it!), waterfall with exterior sump and filter, not sure about plants yet. I have some terrestrial orchids and some bromeliads looking for a home, so ill probably use them. Ferns growing out of the background, definitely.

Question for those of you who have worked with the stuff: I had originally planned on using concrete for the background, but I'm now leaning towards Drylok. I may have missed it in my search, but has anyone had success with moss or ferns growing directly on Drylok?


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

I have watched some of your previous posts, so I am subscribing to this one as well. 

As for your question, I am not sure about plants and moss growing on drylok. Perhaps this member can help (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/76727-drylok-product.html) or one of our mods (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/65227-m-stelzneri-vivarium-fake-rocks.html)

One question I have is what you are going to use under the drylok? Cement, styrofoam, or...? Why drylok instead of cement?


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm just starting on my first rock wall build, because I can as well ;-)

I'm probably going to use a pond pump, because drilling glass and plumbing scares me, but I think the pump I got is too fast. I was hoping for a trickle, not a river that drowns geckos in its wake.
.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I had originally planned on using cement, but i don't want to mess around with curing. Plus, drylok is flexible so bits wont crack or chip off. In theory. We'll see how that works...

I used ethafoam from http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2078 I had been trying to find scraps to save on costs but that didn't work. I only needed one 1inch sheet. Still have leftovers. It makes a great blowgun target 

I used gorilla glue to attach the ethafoam to the eggcrate, the bond wasn't that great but it held it for the next step. I used Touch'n'foam "landscape" (which is black) extremely liberally to fill up as many gaps and crevices as I could, as well as try to fill up the spaces in the eggcrate. I much prefer the Touch'n'foam to Great astuff, curing time was faster and no ridiculous shrinking and expanding. 
I carved off the excess foam, so it almost looks like black mortar between the ethafoam. I tried to carve off as much of the smooth exterior surface as possible. Then carved off the back till the touchnfoam was flush with the eggcrate. I'm going to silicone it to the tank once its finished... it feels really sturdy now.

Currently, I put a little drylok on the background to see how it looks/acts and running some tests on some spare pieces of foam. I picked up some acrylic paints, which I'll use as pigments. According to the manufacturer of drylok, it can be painted with latex acrylic water based paint. Anybody familiar with that stuff? Is that vivarium safe?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

And oh yes... I did the touch'n'foam on a glass table. Easy to cut off and clean off... I thought. DON'T DO IT! lol


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

I learned the hard way as well  I suggest covering your work surface with wax paper. For wide areas overlap the edges of the wax paper and use tape to hold them all down then flip the wax paper over so the tape is on the bottom. Wax paper is easy to pull off dried foam but the tape will remain stuck to the foam if you forget to turn the seams over. 

Looking forward to see the rest of the build come together Jacobi!


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

Jacobi, One more question - why the ethafoam and not the more common pink foam? or use all touch & foam and then carve it?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Duff said:


> Jacobi, One more question - why the ethafoam and not the more common pink foam? or use all touch & foam and then carve it?


The pink foam is polystyrene. Which can cause endocrine disruption. There are several threads about it. I'd try to find one but my wife is telling me to stop typing because I lost the credit card... please hold.

Edit:Whoops. I lost the credit card... On to more important business... The ethafoam is much sturdier than thick blobs of sprayfoam. Plus I wanted to try it. I've tried carving great stuff before, and while happy with it, there was a lot of waste, as well as days of curing time between layers. Here's a thread about styrofoam http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/2000-safety-styrofoam-2.html


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

jacobi said:


> And oh yes... I did the touch'n'foam on a glass table. Easy to cut off and clean off... I thought. DON'T DO IT! lol




Looking closer, you used BLACK touchnfoam in your DINING room, near WHITE covered chairs. Its a miracle you are still married.

I do all my messy crap on the porch or in my "office" (its the shitty little basement room with vinyl flooring that no one uses by me) if its winter but not the dining room. My husband would put the hurt on me.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

I am staying one step behind you to see your dryloc progress. I have underlayment cement, dryloc and grout ready to roll. I used the dryloc for my gecko alien landscape that i never got to use and it worked great for that, although it needs a great deal of paint because tinting came out quite pale. Since I've decided to skip the water in this build, I think I'll probably stick to the dryloc.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Looks promising... I'm subscribing.

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

jacobi said:


> The pink foam is polystyrene. Which can cause endocrine disruption. There are several threads about it. I'd try to find one but my wife is telling me to stop typing because I lost the credit card... please hold.
> 
> Edit:Whoops. I lost the credit card... On to more important business... The ethafoam is much sturdier than thick blobs of sprayfoam. Plus I wanted to try it. I've tried carving great stuff before, and while happy with it, there was a lot of waste, as well as days of curing time between layers. Here's a thread about styrofoam http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/2000-safety-styrofoam-2.html


Weird, I have heard nothing about it. Then again my pink foam background is covered with a putty and painted with acryllic. It has a pool and everything. While it MAY be proven to be an endocrine disruptor, there is NOTHING out there that says it affects frogs.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

OK. Finished the base coats of Drylok. Next I'm going to start tinted coats. It looks pretty good with the base grey colour, but I want it to be darker, with hints of deeper browns and blacks in the spaces between the jutting rocks. Im going to not mix the paint fully, to get some streak effects. I have some green paint too, I may add some "lichen". I tried painting the cured drylok with the acrylic paint as an experiment, it just peeled off when it got wet. 

I've never painted before in my life. This is fun. I may have a new hobby.

Oh. And yes. The table's surface is ruined. That's why I use contact paper to resurface wood tables. Easy to replace 

Edit: for those who have never worked with drylok, it has a very stonelike surface. I thought it would be shiny and smooth. I'm happy I went this way instead of the concrete route.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh and if anybody with more artistic experience than my 2 hours of painting with drylok has any suggestions, please chime in. I'm completely making this up as I go along.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> I used the dryloc for my gecko alien landscape that i never got to use and it worked great for that, although it needs a great deal of paint because tinting came out quite pale.


Post the link to that here  I thought it was really cool. The possibilities are fantastic. 

Did you notice the paint leaching at all or affecting the drylok in anyvway?


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

the dryloc is still intact and in great shape - no peeling, no fading, no cracking. The tank looks great but the silicon never cured and I've lost most of the plants and can't put geckos in that. I'll need to tear it apart and start over. 

As for decorative painting, this is something I love! I would experiment with diluting the dryloc so that it is a "wash" for the darker colors in the cracks. Make it thinner or don't stir it up all the way so you get a thinner consistency. Then brush it into the cracks and wipe it off with a paper towel so that it comes off the higher surfaces. If this doesn't work well, you can make an acrylic paint wash - I think if you mix the acrylic with water, it won't peel off but not sure.

After you apply the wash and it dries completely, try dry brushing lighter color on the higher surfaces. You take thick paint, or maybe really thick dryloc and tint it a lighter gray. put a tiny bit on a paper plate and put VERY LITTLE on a fat paint brush. Brush off excess - it should be really dry and just leave a tiny bit of paint behind. Brush lightly over high areas. This will make them look lighter and more worn than the cracked, dark areas.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks Beth. OK. So I diluted some drylok with water and mixed some paint in. Used a foam brush to dab and brush the mixture on. I had to constantly mix it because the particles were sinking to the bottom. Leaving it overnight to dry and cure. Tomorrow morning I'm going to put it in the bathtub and spray the heck out of it, see if the colour comes off and whether or not diluting the drylok works. 
iI'm all out of face masks, I'll wrap a damp towel over my face just in case I get any of the particles airborne.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Have you ever tried drybrushing?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

§lipperhead said:


> Have you ever tried drybrushing?


Nope. But Beth was nice enough to tell me how to do it 

So I'm going to try it as soon as I get a chance. And this is another reason why I chose Drylok over cement. I'm already at the painting stage. If I had used cement it'd be another month or so of curing... and after the summer my school schedule will be bonkers and I wont have any time.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

Here's a 10 gallon vertical i did. You can see how dry brush really makes it look real










Here's another i did


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## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

A feww tips....one id you csn either mix in sand or sprinkle it on top of freshly painted rocks to give it a rougher texture and also when doing detailed painting maybe try the drybrush tecknique. That is Get some pain on the brush and then wipe most of it off on a paper towl or something and use the remainder on the rocks.

Heres a more detialed link:


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks for all the tips and advice everybody! Ok. Quick update. I siliconed the background in place. Of course, I didn't have enough silicone, so I used an old already used once can of spray foam. And as I was shaking it, the top blew off, covering my hands... Great fun.

Anyway. I need to get another tube of silicone to seal the edges, and buy glass for a top. Since im going to have a fairly large water feature in here, I figure I'll do half screen half glass, which will give it some air flow and will allow me to experiment with UV... 

Hopefully, I'll be able to put substrate in by Friday, possibly some plants and moss. Then give it a few weeks... Then... Frogs! 

I'll post some pictures tomorrow.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

A couple pictures. The lights wash out the detail, but I think it looks pretty darn good for a first rock wall!


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Looking VERY nice.


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## thecolerobby123 (Mar 20, 2012)

jacobi said:


> I had originally planned on using cement, but i don't want to mess around with curing. Plus, drylok is flexible so bits wont crack or chip off. In theory. We'll see how that works...
> 
> I used ethafoam from Ethafoam Blocks at NRSweb.com I had been trying to find scraps to save on costs but that didn't work. I only needed one 1inch sheet. Still have leftovers. It makes a great blowgun target
> 
> ...



Can you get the touchnfoam at any homedepot or lowes? If not where can i get some?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I got mine on Amazon. I tried a few stores first but nobody had it. Ace hardware might have it, my local one didn't.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Jacobi!! Its looking great!!! I've got tons of foam from work on my porch but haven't started. Intimidated.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> Jacobi!! Its looking great!!! I've got tons of foam from work on my porch but haven't started. Intimidated.


Why? You're going to slice it to bits! Get cracking and post photos


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## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

Wow I just read my previous post and noticed I had a TON of misspellings! Haha next time I'll be sure to proofread lol


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## SteveR (Jul 26, 2012)

Looks very nice.

Im am about to start my own first time build with styro. The styro board I have (Home Depot) I *think* is the stuff that is more pelletized. (?)

Anyway - I was assuming I would put on a couple coats of unsanded grout before finally putting on DryLoc. (I also have cement tints....black and brown.. which I think will help..)

You used DryLoc only? It looks very thick in these pics. I am wondering now if the grout is needed. I sort of assumed I would need the grout to hide the texture of the styrofoam and that the DryLoc would be simply like paint.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm actually working on it right now! I put on several layers of drylok, the texture is very rocklike. It does need a lot of pigment though... Also, while it "gripped" the foam very strongly where I had carved the foam, I missed a few spots of the foams smooth outer later and the drylok peeled right off. Personally I'd skip grout. 

It looks a little gray under the lights, but it'll look better once I get some moss growing on it. Hopefully, I'll be able to set up the substrate layer tomorrow or Sunday, depending on who in the family ends up in the hospital... Sigh...


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## SteveR (Jul 26, 2012)

jacobi said:


> ... Also, while it "gripped" the foam very strongly where I had carved the foam, I missed a few spots of the foams smooth outer later and the drylok peeled right off. Personally I'd skip grout. ....


well good luck with everything, it does look nice.

Yes - one reason I considered the grout was to make sure that the DryLoc has something it would really adhere to. I think a couple layers of grout would really solidify the styro.

Thank you.. your comment about the DryLoc peeling off has me worried now, so i think I will stay with the grout as a first layer. I bought these canisters of liquid tint for cement ($5 each at Home Depot)... I am hoping they are more pigment-dense than just acrylic paint, but they are probably the exact same thing.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

dryloc is thicker than paint. its got some sand in it too.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I am SERIOUSLY bummed right now.... I cracked the bottom.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Ok. So after stepping away from the problem, calming down from being so upset at myself, I realized that this could be a good thing. I can get a brand new tank, this one was old and scratched. It'll be a pain taking the background off though... And drilling the hole for the waterfall in the exact spot... Sigh...


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

That happens to everyone at some point, but it doesn't stop it from REALLY sucking. Sorry man.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Shinosuke said:


> That happens to everyone at some point, but it doesn't stop it from REALLY sucking. Sorry man.


Lol. I've had more tanks break than tanks that didn't break. It's my fault. I'm clumsy and very strong. Not a good combination. Weird things happen.


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## SteveR (Jul 26, 2012)

What happened.. did you tighten the bulkhead to much?

The sound of it going 'snap' is really a buzzkill... merrily going along working on a pleasurable pastime, and you instantly know what just happened. Sorry, man.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

SteveR said:


> What happened.. did you tighten the bulkhead to much?


Oh. Maybe. Hadn't thought of that... Bulkheads been in place for two months. But I was putting the pipe in to test the waterfall. I pushed, and snap crackle pop.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I can cut the background(s) off the glass safely without risking serious injury? I was going to try slipping a knife between the glass and the background... I was pretty liberal with the silicone. 

Alternatively I could break the glass with a hammer, then cut off the small pieces. Might be safer than dealing with a big piece of non tempered glass that I could easily break and cut my hand on. Any thoughts?


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## jermajestyg (Jan 28, 2012)

I think that cutting it off would be better. Start with a small knife, then get gradually bigger and longer as it goes farther in (sorry, but, thats what she said haha. I couldnt have asked for a better moment haha). And, if you dont break the glass, you could use this tank as a vert. Just put the cracked end at the top, apply a good layer of silicone, and you're golden haha. Just throwing ideas out there for you.

-Jeremy


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## SteveR (Jul 26, 2012)

I would try cutting it off rather than using the 'sledgehammer method'.

Its got to be a bit depressing since you were making such nice progress... but even if you wind up snapping the background in half...(or more) I suppose it would be easy enough to repair or mend again...

I suppose you could make some specific cuts where you want them... in some of the deeper grooves to try and get it out in pieces without really destroying it.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

You can get a razor scraper with a large handle from the hardware store. Like these found on Amazon...
Amazon.com: razor scraper handle

-Chris

Link not working...try this one...

http://www.amazon.com/Tooluxe-Long-Razor-Blade-Scraper-Ultra-Comfort/dp/B000V666M4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343658598&sr=8-1&keywords=razor+scraper+handle

or...

http://www.amazon.com/OEM-25500-Razor-Blade-Scraper/dp/B000CMFK5Q/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1343658598&sr=8-6&keywords=razor+scraper+handle


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