# 20 Long Vertical Tank



## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm creating a 20 long vertical tank. It'll have about 6 bromeliads and a lot of vines. What frogs do you think I can pop in hear? I was thinking a pair of imitators? The substrate will be ABG mix and the background will be clay.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

The size and orientation sounds good for a pair of imitators. 20 gallon long verts don't have a lot of depth, though, it kind of limits the wood/hardscaping/plants you can put in a tank....


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

SmackoftheGods said:


> The size and orientation sounds good for a pair of imitators. 20 gallon long verts don't have a lot of depth, though, it kind of limits the wood/hardscaping/plants you can put in a tank....


Actually, the depth I think is a bit more than a 10 gallon, so about 12-16 inches. Since i'm using clay background, that saves alot of space.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

16 is a 20h so your thinken about 10-12 at most. I wonder how this is going to turn out. 

Do have an idea what frog you want? Imitator? Vent? Variabilis (sp.)?


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> 16 is a 20h so your thinken about 10-12 at most. I wonder how this is going to turn out.
> 
> Do have an idea what frog you want? Imitator? Vent? Variabilis (sp.)?


I'm thinking a pair of imitators, or maybe a trio. Not sure how that would turn out though. I made the false bottom, mixed up my "special" frog substrate, and hooked up the lighting. I'll be ordering the conversion kit within the next week. I still need to do more planning and think of the background design too. Any ideas were to get the conversion kit cheap? The only place that sold 20L vertical kits was AAAFrogs and it was 30$, and with shipping and tax, 45$ which seemed steep. I'm wondering if I could make one, but I have NO idea where to get hinges for glass or how to make the vent. I'll post pics soon, my friends borrowing my good camera. He'll be back in about another half an hour or so.


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

I feel your pain on the vert kits. I just shelled out $$$ on 2 @10gal and [email protected] ouuuch.. anyway, i figure these days my time is worth the money - its a plug n play solution. At least I got the tanks at approx 50% off. 

fyi - I put my order in last week and still hasnt shipped so you might consider that in your build schedule. From what Iv read AAA makes good products so i think it will be worth the wait.

-Scott


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

johnyrocks said:


> I'm creating a 20 long vertical tank. It'll have about 6 bromeliads and a lot of vines. What frogs do you think I can pop in hear? I was thinking a pair of imitators? The substrate will be ABG mix and the background will be clay.


Sounds real good ready see pictures on this thing. Try looking on eBay or Craigslist they might Have the conversion kit. It sounds real good so far also.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

By the way, the dimensions are 12 1/2" x 12 3/4 x 30"


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Alrighty. Here's the pics. The false bottom's in, the tanked sparkling clean, and the light's going. 
I probably will just buy from AAA. I have also heard they make good items but the order takes about a week to go through, and I cant put my background on until it comes or else it'll dry out. Sorry for the delay! Also sorry it took so long, I had to resize them. Fixed.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> Sounds real good ready see pictures on this thing. Try looking on eBay or Craigslist they might Have the conversion kit. It sounds real good so far also.


Fixed the pictures


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

Your false bottom looks good. I dont recall, have you got your leaf litter yet? if you make your own, it takes a while to dry out the leaves. Just fyi if havent thought about that yet. Good leaf litter is like McDonald drive thru for frogs : )


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

El Saptio Joyas said:


> Your false bottom looks good. I dont recall, have you got your leaf litter yet? if you make your own, it takes a while to dry out the leaves. Just fyi if havent thought about that yet. Good leaf litter is like McDonald drive thru for frogs : )


Haha, lol. I'm ordering my leaf litter from aaafrogs too. Getting magnolia since I heard oak can melt fast. Thanks for reminding me! lol.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

My substrate is sort of like the ABG mix, but this drains better. It's about 2 parts peat moss and 1 part organic potting soil. I've had amazing springtail populations and great plant growth from some ficus pumila. This time I changed it up a bit though, it's about half and half of both, so it drains even better. The organic potting soil i'm using has mulch, fern root, some peat mixed in already, and coco husk mashed up.


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

johnyrocks said:


> Haha, lol. I'm ordering my leaf litter from aaafrogs too. Getting magnolia since I heard oak can melt fast. Thanks for reminding me! lol.


There are lots of oak species - Im sure it varies, the trees in my yard and around are durand oak, bur oak, live oak and red oak, they collect all around and it takes over a year for them to rot. I like to mow them up and use them as mulch in my garden. 

Yeah those magnolia leaf are made of titanium... I dont like my mower to hit those, dulls the blade -


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Heres my plan. Pretty basic, the background and planting is the tricky part.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

El Saptio Joyas said:


> There are lots of oak species - Im sure it varies, the trees in my yard and around are durand oak, bur oak, live oak and red oak, they collect all around and it takes over a year for them to rot. I like to mow them up and use them as mulch in my garden.
> 
> Yeah those magnolia leaf are made of titanium... I dont like my mower to hit those, dulls the blade -


Lol! I wonder though. We don't have oaks here, we have to go into town and thats the only place I know of any oaks around here (I love in colorado) and I found grape leaves to be cheap. I don't know though. Still going for magnolia, but i'll keep an open mind.


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

Its looking good. I like the texture of your substrate too. And there is a real good positive thing on these 20 gallon tanks they are freaking tall standing straight up so its a perfect tank for thumb and other tree dwelling frogs


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> Its looking good. I like the texture of your substrate too. And there is a real good positive thing on these 20 gallon tanks they are freaking tall standing straight up so its a perfect tank for thumb and other tree dwelling frogs


Yeah, the texture is a nice thing about mixing it with the bark. I actually added more organic soil shortly after posting this to help it drain and look more appealing. I did an experiment with this mix and plants thrive in it, never had root rot either. I'm really exited to see how the long narrow look works out. I think a few thumbs would love this. What I like about yours is that you were really enthusiastic about a 20L tank and you did a good job. A lot of people that do 20 longs make it look like they slapped it together in a few days. I'm actually a tiny bit happy that I won't be ordering the conversion kit for a while, I love planning. Planned tanks = beast tanks. Thanks again man!


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## Dusted Fly (Apr 24, 2011)

I construct my own doors. Just go to Ace and get a few pieces of glass cut. Here it's around $3.50 for three pieces and I ordered a 6ft section of living hinge for around $12 and that'll last me a long time on 10 and 20 gallon verts. Velcro adhesive strips to secure the door.


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

I may Have to consider using your substrate design when I design any new tanks lol. On this tank I planned I swore like two to three months. And I'm still planning. I'm also suffering from ets now. But keep me updated on your tank. And thanks again for liking my tank


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys. These are some pics of the tank at night, the underside of the false bottom, and a closer look at the substrate. Suggestion for plants? I want a heavily planted tank this time so my frogs will be happy and healthy. 



























Enjoy and please tell me if i'm doing anything wrong, or just tips. I'll keep an open mind!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

:::::UPDATE::::: I've changed what background I want. I've decided on the great stuff. It'll work good in this tank I think. I just didn't want to whip up so much more clay.


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

GS is what I use. I also incorporate cork bark into the background for texture, ledges, and "terrace" plant holders... looks very natural - you can even break the cork up into pieces and silicon them into ornate structures like a "bridge" from one corner to another. I pay about $10 lb at a local pet store - w/ 1 or 2 lbs you could easily have left over for other projects.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

El Saptio Joyas said:


> GS is what I use. I also incorporate cork bark into the background for texture, ledges, and "terrace" plant holders... looks very natural - you can even break the cork up into pieces and silicon them into ornate structures like a "bridge" from one corner to another. I pay about $10 lb at a local pet store - w/ 1 or 2 lbs you could easily have left over for other projects.


Thanks for the comment. The thing i'm worried about is that if in some places I add too much, like the top or middle, the plants might not get enough light. Also, how do you stick bromeliads into it? Just keep roots semi moist by misting and attach them with wire? I've only used the GS background once, and it was in a 10 gallon. LOL. Way too small for a 10g, so I did clay. Thanks! I'm in a rush to choose because I only get to go to the hardware store once a month, and the next time is tomorrow, and i'll be getting orchid bark and GS if I choose. What kind do you use? I tried big gap filler, no cracked glass, but it shrunk overnight so I had to rip it off and silicone it back on. Thanks again


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

dreamcatcer98 made an awesome 20L vert tank. Here are some links to her build.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/59180-started-20l-vert.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/59413-20l-vert-some-planting.html


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

UPDATE going to the hardware store tomorrow, pick up more ingrediants for the substrate, and i'll be getting Great stuff Gaps and Cracks along with a tube of black silicone (will a 16 oz can be enough?!)


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

One more link to dreamcatcer98s 20L tank, grown out. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pl...allon-long-vertical-fully-planted-175obo.html


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

frogface said:


> dreamcatcer98 made an awesome 20L vert tank. Here are some links to her build.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/59180-started-20l-vert.html
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/59413-20l-vert-some-planting.html


Thanks for showing me a 20l vert build. I could only find 2 on here, that one is by far the nicest i've seen. From looking at that, the clay work is fantastic, but I do know how heavy a 20l vert would weigh with a claay background (no joke, about 80-100 pounds!) so I think i'll just do the GS method. I want this viv to last a long time without any problems (or big ones that is lol!) Thanks!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

frogface said:


> One more link to dreamcatcer98s 20L tank, grown out.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pl...allon-long-vertical-fully-planted-175obo.html


And looking at it grown, wow lol. Thats a nice tank! I hope mine turns out nice like that!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> I may Have to consider using your substrate design when I design any new tanks lol. On this tank I planned I swore like two to three months. And I'm still planning. I'm also suffering from ets now. But keep me updated on your tank. And thanks again for liking my tank


No prob. I know how you feel about the dreaded et syndrome. It's awful! I did research on what was in my substrate and there was a small about of manure, lol  So i'm running down to home depot tomorrow and am getting some orchid bark and will mix it with peat moss (I got 200 pounds of peat moss from 12$! lol) and it'll look the same, but won't have ANY ferts in it. I'll also get some GS gaps and cracks along with black silicone. How much GS and silicone did you use to do you're whole background? I hope a 16 oz can will do the back and left side, and I know 1 10.2 oz tube of black silicone will cover, but just curious if 16oz will do. I saw you used a 16oz and a 12oz. Any leftovers? Thanks!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Dusted Fly said:


> I construct my own doors. Just go to Ace and get a few pieces of glass cut. Here it's around $3.50 for three pieces and I ordered a 6ft section of living hinge for around $12 and that'll last me a long time on 10 and 20 gallon verts. Velcro adhesive strips to secure the door.


Really? Was it glass or plexiglass? That's what makes it expensive. I had a HORRIBLE problem with plexi glass. It's like acrylic. It warped and it ruined my pond  lol/


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think some of the sponsors here, that sell vert kits, can do custom order.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

frogface said:


> I think some of the sponsors here, that sell vert kits, can do custom order.


i'm not that worried, because I can get a proper vertical kit, but it's 45$ shipped o.o


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Here's pics of where the pots will go. I will have lots of plants in here, so need lots of large pots. Sorry that they're kinda hard to see!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Sorry for being so pic heavy guys! I put the pots in their final spots and I added airline tubing so the soil in the pots dont become waterlogged. This is very imported with the GS background, because it's very hard to take the pots out and drain the water out. I swear no more pics until I get the GS sprayed on! lol!
The pots taped down with tubing








Closer look at the tubing


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

To be honest, you dont even need the pots let alone the tubing for most of the terrarium plants. Just pin them to the background with some LFS to keep them moist. they will root and thrive as long as they have good light and plenty of mistings to help them get established. Personally what Ive been doing is carving out small little 1 inchish niches in which I place some LFS and then place the plant over that sphagnum filled niche. and pin it there with a bent paperclip. works great!


Looking forward to seeing this finished!


Todd


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Dartfrogfreak said:


> To be honest, you dont even need the pots let alone the tubing for most of the terrarium plants. Just pin them to the background with some LFS to keep them moist. they will root and thrive as long as they have good light and plenty of mistings to help them get established. Personally what Ive been doing is carving out small little 1 inchish niches in which I place some LFS and then place the plant over that sphagnum filled niche. and pin it there with a bent paperclip. works great!
> 
> 
> Looking forward to seeing this finished!
> ...


I know. I will do this with only my broms though. Reason being, I'm ordering fern, umbrella plant, etc just plants with larger root structure and that cant be pinned to the background.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Ah, that kinda makes sense then.


Todd


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

GUYS The GS background is on, curing, and expanding as we speak, but here's some pics. I need to buy 1 more can for spots I didn't have enough foam. I Bought 2 12 oz cans, as they didn't have 16 oz ones. I used "Gaps and cracks" I need to also buy some silicone, I was in a hurry to watch a movie!
























The next images will be when the black silicone and peat moss is on. Stay tuned!

Update, the GS fully expanded. One of my pots got burried in gs  lol. Have to do some carving to get it fixed lol.


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

I used both tubes of silicons and only 1 can of great stuff it was the 16 oz. Sorry about the late reply


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

Gs is looking good.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> I used both tubes of silicons and only 1 can of great stuff it was the 16 oz. Sorry about the late reply


It will take 1 more 12 oz can unfortunately. It's a good thing lowes had it on sale for 2 $ a can though lol. So probably tomorrow I will buy 2 tubes of black silicone, wanna get the background done  lol. I bought this huge umbrella plant from petsmart in the fish department, . It's about 20 inches tall. I even designed a special spot in the tank for it so it doesn't prevent light from getting to other plants, shown here. 







The bottom pot


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

How tall do umbrella plants get like in height, and is it gonna be a focal plant ( I think that's the correct term lol. ) and two tubes of silicone shhould do fine that's what mine took. And lucky on great stuff can prices I paid like 15$ for those two cans


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> How tall do umbrella plants get like in height, and is it gonna be a focal plant ( I think that's the correct term lol. ) and two tubes of silicone shhould do fine that's what mine took. And lucky on great stuff can prices I paid like 15$ for those two cans


It's def a focal plant. Here's a person that made an amazing RETF viv, and the big plant with weird looking leaves is the umbrella plant, Mines a bit bigger, though.


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

Nice video. And I know what they are my grandmother had one just didn't know the size they got


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> Nice video. And I know what they are my grandmother had one just didn't know the size they got


The scientific name is Schefflera arboricola. It's basically a type of bonsai tree, but my species will grow about 2 feet tall, so it;s got a few inches to go. In your vivarium you can try it, it might outgrow the tank because of height concerns, but it's only about 8$ and comes in a tube. Forgot to mention, the type I got has thin stem, unlike a bonsai tree for like a zen garden.


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

I would probably try this type plant in my 55 if I ever get rid of what's left of my saltwater tank. ( its ugly and only has one fish). For a future viv design


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

El Saptio Joyas said:


> I feel your pain on the vert kits. I just shelled out $$$ on 2 @10gal and [email protected] ouuuch.. anyway, i figure these days my time is worth the money - its a plug n play solution. At least I got the tanks at approx 50% off.
> 
> fyi - I put my order in last week and still hasnt shipped so you might consider that in your build schedule. From what Iv read AAA makes good products so i think it will be worth the wait.
> 
> -Scott


I agree on this, thats why I started buying the Exo Terra tanks. By the time you get a tank and a vert kit shipped, it's more money than a new exo. plus, the locking doors are much nicer. My only complaint is they dont fit together as tight as just 10g tanks because of the feet.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

JaredJ said:


> I agree on this, thats why I started buying the Exo Terra tanks. By the time you get a tank and a vert kit shipped, it's more money than a new exo. plus, the locking doors are much nicer. My only complaint is they dont fit together as tight as just 10g tanks because of the feet.


I have to disagree with you I have an 18x18x24 zoomed which is $10-12 cheaper than an exo Terra of the same size. I am making a 20h vert and it has cost me $50 dallors to make. Saving me $50-$60. But loseing 10 gallons which isn't that big of a deal. If your talking about the 11g exo than you are losing 9 gallons. Put it this way I myself would not go under a 15g for An established permanent viv for darts. 

Johnyrocks: started out with great stuff but for me it was to hard to cover the great stuff with coco fiber.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

JaredJ said:


> I agree on this, thats why I started buying the Exo Terra tanks. By the time you get a tank and a vert kit shipped, it's more money than a new exo. plus, the locking doors are much nicer. My only complaint is they dont fit together as tight as just 10g tanks because of the feet.


I disagree too. an 18x18x24 exo terra is 120$ for the tank and background, a 20l h converted gives more vertical space and only costs about 65$ with a better background.


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## 125 (Jun 22, 2011)

Actually a good site for a good conversion kit is junglebox.net, cause they sell there 20 galloon conversion kit for only $26.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Call me crazy, but I don't understand why people don't buy used exo terras more. I've got 2 and have seen several other exos on craigslist for around 30-50 for 18" cubes. I don't get why someone would want to pay over a hundred for them when they can buy one after someone owned one for 2 months and starts regretting their impulse buy...


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## mavhammer45 (Apr 7, 2011)

I would get imitators.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

125 said:


> Actually a good site for a good conversion kit is junglebox.net, cause they sell there 20 galloon conversion kit for only $26.


The 20 gallon kits there are for 20H tanks, not 20L. Anyways, aaafrogs has one for 26$ too, but i'll make my own. I'm getting 2 pieces of plexiglass so I wont have a vent unfortunately, and make a silicone hinge using black silicone/electrical tap. All together it will cost 20$, and I already have silicone, so 10$. And I will not have to get it shipped


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

PeanutbuttER said:


> Call me crazy, but I don't understand why people don't buy used exo terras more. I've got 2 and have seen several other exos on craigslist for around 30-50 for 18" cubes. I don't get why someone would want to pay over a hundred for them when they can buy one after someone owned one for 2 months and starts regretting their impulse buy...


I know lol. I don't even like exo terra though. The tank design is nice, but with a cube you don't get much ground vertical space. This is why I like 20 longs. On it's side (horz) you get more ground space than any exo terra, and on its other side (vert), you get more vertical space than any exo terra. It's a win-win, but about people not buying them on craigslist, i've seen them, They usually are cracked or don't have the awful exo terra background, but if you get lucky, you might get a whole kit + extras for 60$ (which is what it's worth lol) An 18x18x24 exo terra or zoo med is around 100$, but it's only worth about 40$, they just know they can do that, because people get lazy and buy one that's already vert. If you have time on your hands, you can make a better tank than any exo or zoomed.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Plexi is not good idea it warps easily.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

This tank might be getting done today! The plants are coming in the mail hopefully today, I just put the peat/coco/etc on with black silicone, and if my fiance isn't a twit while she's out and about, she'll be getting my glass cut (I'm lazy lol!). So today/tomorrow and this puppy will be done


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Ugh! My fiance didn't get the glass. What a b1tch lol. Oh well. I just finished touch ups with black silicone and peat. The plants came though! No idea what most of them are, it was a lot. No broms yet. Will post pics when the silicone/peat dries and i'll post pics of the plants. I'll I know is I got 2 types of pepormila, a pothos, and some ficus pumila. Hard to tell. Will be easier to tell when it's planted.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Here's pics of it lightly planted, still need to figure out how the umbrella plant will go w/o blocking the other plants. I still need the glass, but the BG is done. I got all of THESE plants for 10$ from a lot on ebay. 
Here's the whole tank








Pothos








More pothos








Ficus pumila








2 types of Wandering jew








If you have any questions, let me know. I will buy some bromeliads and put in the umbrella plant soon. It looks kinda emty now, but most of these are vines/creepers and they will take hold soon. More pics down below.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Peperomia red time defolia








Unkown, have 3 of them.








More wandering jew








Unknown








Unknown, not looking too good








Hope you enjoyed. Next is broms and umbrella plant, and frogs!!!!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

PS sorry the plants were dirty, and these are crappy pics. I'll post better ones soon. The peat on the BG looks black when wet and I put my substrate in


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

johnyrocks said:


> I disagree too. an 18x18x24 exo terra is 120$ for the tank and background, a 20l h converted gives more vertical space and only costs about 65$ with a better background.


$120?? We have a local pet store that sells them for $59. The 12x12x18 they sell for $42.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Here's updated pics. I think the purple wandering jew might die, and sadly maybe the golden pothos. Maybe they're just settling down though. Their leaves are a bit soft and shrivled, but then again they were in a carboard box in 100f summer heat for a week.
The whole tank-substrate








Purple jew








Unknown, def not looking good!








Good look at background!


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

You right about the substrate, it does look more natural than eco eath


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

JaredJ said:


> $120?? We have a local pet store that sells them for $59. The 12x12x18 they sell for $42.


Seriously? Wow much.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

I have this thing wrapped up in duck tape until I can get the glass, lol. I forgot to air it out, so it reeks of silicone, but i'm sure the plants won't mind as long as I leave a small vent hole. Also the ficus pumila is growing a new leaf, and I put on more lighting, which is a high output T5 bulb. It's only temp, it hangs about 5 inches on each side of the tank lol!


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

The plants are probably dehidrated so mist heavy.

Jared: are you serious. The only other tank I can think of that might be that cheap are the 18x18x18 size.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Yeah, when I wrapped the tank up thy looked better. By the way guys, I bought the glass! Hip hip horray! Lol. The hinge is silicone, and it's going to dry overnight. Next is to put it on the tank, that's another day.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> I have to disagree with you I have an 18x18x24 zoomed which is $10-12 cheaper than an exo Terra of the same size. I am making a 20h vert and it has cost me $50 dallors to make. Saving me $50-$60. But loseing 10 gallons which isn't that big of a deal. If your talking about the 11g exo than you are losing 9 gallons. Put it this way I myself would not go under a 15g for An established permanent viv for darts.
> 
> Johnyrocks: started out with great stuff but for me it was to hard to cover the great stuff with coco fiber.


Hey bro, I just made the glass cover (will post pics soon) I had to take my plants out  so the tank can air out but I wen't to ace like someone suggested and they were so nice. They cut my 2 pieces for exactly $4.29! I was like wow! So my conversion kit cost exactly $10.29 lol.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

I am very impatient and this wait is killing me! 

Good luck though!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> I am very impatient and this wait is killing me!
> 
> Good luck though!


I know how you feel man. I'm about to flip lol. Well, the glass cover is on, but it still stinky from silicone, I had to take it in because it got way to hot outside and I was worried about glass breaking. So I put in my room with the fans on 100% and a window open, It'll take 2 days for it to finish . Oh well. A good thing though is since my plants are in my grow tank (2 T5's, 100% humidity, waterfall, etc. It's pretty hi-tech for a grow tank lol) i'm seeing some good growth. My ficus pumila has grown 4 new leaves, and everything's looking good. Can't wait though.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys, sorry for the wait. Here's pictures of the tank as it is, and if the fumes are gone tomorrow, i'll plant it again. I'm using a fan to get rid of the fumes faster, and they're almost gone. The leaf litter (maple), substrate (I finally got supplies for ABG mix), cocohut, and conversion kit (2 pieces of glass, no ventilation  ) is all on and good to go. The other pics are my grow tank and my awesome Leopard Gecko. Enjoy! 
Tank with lid open/fan blowing fumes out








Tank with lid closed








Leaf Litter 








Close look at hinge (silicone hinge, Thanks Grimm)








Grow tank (was gonna be dart tank, but too small from waterfall)








Leopard Gecko Tank (my first pet) 








One of my ficus pumila's new leaves








Pepormia Red Time Defolia growth








All my tanks (10 gallon vert next guys!)


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Looking good so far. What lighting are you using? Doesn't look too good, IMO.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Mitch said:


> Looking good so far. What lighting are you using? Doesn't look too good, IMO.


I'm using 2 t5's in the grow tank, and only 2 13w CLFs in the 20L vert. It needs better. Need to find a fixture that fits that cal use tubes. Also a side note, it looks dark because my camera has a "dramatic" setting that darkens darks and keeps light things the same. It looks nice and bright in real life.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

hey guys. The fumes were gone shortly after posting those other pics. I rushed to plant it and make a few changes. Here's some pics!


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

The tank is looking real good. I'm liking it. One other thing leopard geckos were my first reptile and venture into this hobby also.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Wow. I just took the maple leaves out! The smell of them was AWFUL! It's like a mixure of rotten eggs, chard, and dead bodies! YUCK!!!!


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Cool! It's awesome! Where are the broms? Lol 
where are getting them from tropiflora or michaels bromeliads?
I can't decide where to get mine from.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> Cool! It's awesome! Where are the broms? Lol
> where are getting them from tropiflora or michaels bromeliads?
> I can't decide where to get mine from.


Was thinking micheals or if I can just get them locally. I don't have them yet because I never thought i'd get this stinker done but apparently I did lol. I like micheals more because they have a great sellection, but if they dont have the ones I want I might want to try the new england herp ones, i've heard they have good ones.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I know it's not fancy, but, when I have a tank that needs side lighting, I use a clamp lamp (you know, the cheap 5 dollar ones at home depot) with a CFL. Works like a charm.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

frogface said:


> I know it's not fancy, but, when I have a tank that needs side lighting, I use a clamp lamp (you know, the cheap 5 dollar ones at home depot) with a CFL. Works like a charm.


Actually, i'm not worried FOR NOW. I have one of those fancy 26w CLF lamps that are super bright but only will be using it for a short while. I wouldn't use clamp lamps anyways, when I made my hood I added these awesome reflectors that work like a charm. I used this fixture with 2 13w CLFs on a 10g fish tank and things grew way too fast, even in a 29g it did the same.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

frogface said:


> I know it's not fancy, but, when I have a tank that needs side lighting, I use a clamp lamp (you know, the cheap 5 dollar ones at home depot) with a CFL. Works like a charm.


Me too! My verts plant growth has doubled! 

I like michaels too. Here are the broms I plan on order for my benedicta of fantastica viv, neogrelia "Andy Anne", ritzy red, June night, and purple star x fireball. Check um out at Fleshfrombones 20h vert and Bromeliads in a dart frog vivarium article.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks vivlover, i'll check it out. And here guys is the BEST update EVER! I'm so f*ucking happy right now  Don't you guys love it? I think it looks good! This is my big foots fault, along with my brother yacking at me. Turned out good. I took the plants out because the glass was everywhere, even on the plants. UGH. I can't f*cking believe this bull sh*t


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

That sucks!!!!!!!!!!!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> That sucks!!!!!!!!!!!


I know. Good thing I only payed 4$. I'll get more tomorrow. I'm pissed at this. I was carrying something, my brother talked none stop, and then yelled, then I fell and my foot crushed the glass. UGH. Well the plus is the viv gets a bit more time to air out. It's a shame that I had a guy take time to cut me a nice slab of glass and within 2 days I break it. I will be sure to hell this won't happen again.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

That does suck.

Get the vivs off the ground  Less likely to step on them that way.


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

Oh dude I'm sorry to here that and peanutbutter is right get it off the ground


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> Oh dude I'm sorry to here that and peanutbutter is right get it off the ground


Yeah i'll do that. Damn I wish I wasn't so careless.


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

Everyone makes mistakes though


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

If it makes you feel better that your not alone w stupid accidents, I was doing some "quick" GS touch ups and got a small blob on my nice shorts.... Doooohhhhh.....


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

El Saptio Joyas said:


> If it makes you feel better that your not alone w stupid accidents, I was doing some "quick" GS touch ups and got a small blob on my nice shorts.... Doooohhhhh.....


xD! That always happens to me when using gs, lol. I just bought a new psair of shoes and shorts and got greatstuff and silicone, now everything is unusable lol.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys. Today i'm running down to get the new glass. I'll get everything done soon.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys! So sorry for the long wait. I couldn't get my computer running for a week -_-. Well, It's planted, the glass is on, and I have my order of bromeliads on its way from Josh's frogs. I couldn't get any good ones from micheals bromeliads so I checked out josh's. They had LOTS of them. I ordered 1x Cryptanthus ''Black Mystic'' (which is a very nice crpyt, it's black/green in center with white stripes, and is my favorite earth star by far!) and 2x Neoregelia ampullacea which gets 16" in diameter, great for this big tank and gets a maroon color in good light. I hope to get these by tomorrow or the day after. Pics will be posted once I get them planted. Can earth stars be put in pots with substrate? Thanks


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Looking forward to finally seeing this finished.

Go ahead and plant that Cryptanthus in a pot fairly high on the background. They enjoy a good amount of light.
Personally Ive never heard of an ampullacea getting so big. Id imagine this being from over fertilizing or lack of light.


Todd


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Dartfrogfreak said:


> Looking forward to finally seeing this finished.
> 
> Go ahead and plant that Cryptanthus in a pot fairly high on the background. They enjoy a good amount of light.
> Personally Ive never heard of an ampullacea getting so big. Id imagine this being from over fertilizing or lack of light.
> ...


When I read on what they had they said they got 16" in diameter in their greenhouse which they grow these in. I think it's because they use lots of ferts (if you look at some pics, you'll see lots of ferts in the pots). Unfortionatly if I plant the earth star I only have 1 good empty pot left and it's in the middle. If I can't get it to look nice in the pot I have a good spot on the background to mount it, right up next to the light.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

What happened withe michaels bromeliads? Can't wait to see planted!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> What happened withe michaels bromeliads? Can't wait to see planted!


I didn't look very well, only saw a few of their plants, not the whole catalog. You can check em out, see if you can figure out how to order, it was confusing lol. Eh, it's too late though. Already ordered. Yeah i'm really excited to see this thing done finally. All the plants in the tank have grow a bit much lol. The red/purple wandering jew has grow a new leaf, the ficus pumila has grown a few inches, and the pepormia has grow a good 5-6 inches, so I took cuttings, which have rooted and grow quite a bit too!
Edit: By the way, I still have fumes. WTF! I aired it out for a week+ outside, open, with an industrial fan blowing in it! Idk. I think it's the silicone hinge. Ugh! Well i'll look for some plastic FF proof hinge, and speaking of FFs, I need to FF proof this tank. I have a small gap in the glass that needs to be fixed and since the right side of the GS background shrunk, I am doing my best to use a little method I made. You take 1/2 in OD airline tubing and you coat it in black silicone and then cover it up in peat. I'll post a pic of what I did so you can see. It blends in. I put a snake in to see if IT could get into the background and it did, so still a little work to do. I'm also worried about temps. In my room the air gets to 90f and the tank hits around 78-82. I'm scared of that.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

You call him and tell him what you want. I am still waiting for a vert kit so I can order the broms.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> You call him and tell him what you want. I am still waiting for a vert kit so I can order the broms.


Oh! Lol thanks for telling me that. I'll have to try them next build!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys. Josh's frogs sent me an email telling me they're in transit now. So i'm excited for that. I'm redoing my hinge. The silicone can't hold the weight of the glass, and it leaves a massive gap for FFs to get out. So I ordered this hinge. Clear Acrylic DR® Piano Hinge | U.S. Plastic Corp.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys. I reviewed when the rest of the plants are coming and they will be here tomorrow. I swear! I looked at all my creepers/vines and holy sh*t. They're rooting into the background like nothing i've ever experienced in such a short period of time. Even a plant that I forgot and found on the ground 3 days later (I assumed it was dead) has rooting to the background and it's sprouting a new leaf. I will post pics tomorrow showing all of those roots and the broms along with the AMAZING plant growth i'm having. I've never had plants grow so fast!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

*Re: 20 Long Vertical Tank PIC HEAVY*

Here's pics. i couldn't help myself. The broms aren't here yet  But I was eager to show you guys the plants and the insane growth (look at the plants I post pics of before, you'll see what I mean!). This is very pic heavy. This just shows few of the roots to cling onto the background, some of them are a bit blurred, I knocked the camera onto the floor (500$ camera -_-) so I just found this one at a thrift store. Enjoy the 80MB of photos! Oh great. I can't figure out how to upload pics here from flickr, damn photobucket wasn't working. Well, here's a link then  Flickr: johnyrocks' Photostream


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

*Re: 20 Long Vertical Tank PIC HEAVY*

Awesome, that is one of my favorite things about vivariums. Things just GROW. After having struggled for years to keep any houseplant alive, I'm always amazed at how quickly I see roots and cuttings take hold. I've got a gob of oak leaf creeping fig cuttings that I'm currently letting take hold of my background and although it's only been a short time it looks like they are slowly but surely going to take hold.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

*Re: 20 Long Vertical Tank PIC HEAVY*



PeanutbuttER said:


> Awesome, that is one of my favorite things about vivariums. Things just GROW. After having struggled for years to keep any houseplant alive, I'm always amazed at how quickly I see roots and cuttings take hold. I've got a gob of oak leaf creeping fig cuttings that I'm currently letting take hold of my background and although it's only been a short time it looks like they are slowly but surely going to take hold.


I know! The ficus pumila in here is actually growing very fast. When I first put it in it was about 5 inches shorter.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Guess what just came in the mail...


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Post pics now!!!!!!!!!


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> Post pics now!!!!!!!!!


i agree i wanna see the pics


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

johnyrocks said:


> Hey guys. I reviewed when the rest of the plants are coming and they will be here tomorrow. I swear! I looked at all my creepers/vines and holy sh*t. They're rooting into the background like nothing i've ever experienced in such a short period of time. Even a plant that I forgot and found on the ground 3 days later (I assumed it was dead) has rooting to the background and it's sprouting a new leaf. I will post pics tomorrow showing all of those roots and the broms along with the AMAZING plant growth i'm having. I've never had plants grow so fast!


plants in the link are looking real nice. looks great. what frogs are you getting?


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Sorry guys, outta town today. Here's pics. Josh's didn't have one of the plants so they said wait, or you can get this. Should of told you guys sooner!  So I got lots of plants for the same price, including 3 broms! 
Heres one of 10 broms I picked up at walmart, didn't put any in though because I had no room, but they were 50 cents each and had pups and same have flowers!








This is some creeping fig red, but figured I already had some, so i'll grow it in the greenhouse and sell some. 3 unrooted cuttings.









Here's 2 poca-dotted broms. I love the teeth! Lol. They were connected together (one is a giant pup) so I left it alone until it starts growing it's own roots.









Here's what I think is a fireball, it has red everywhere, but not sure.









This is black rabbit foot fern. Looks great in the bottom of the viv! 









Forgot the name, it's belegenia or something like that...









Whole tank shot, left out some Pilea tiny tears, nice plant btw!









Hope you enjoyed. I'm trying to get some imitators soon guys!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys. I should've waiting to take pics. The broms are perking up A LOT! They were pretty dry, but i'm seeing more red from what i think is a fireball. I also moved some things round to look more perky. 
Full tank shot









Some red on the tip of the brom









The cup of it, lots of red, filled with water.









The center of one of the poca-dotted broms, filled w/ water









The center of the other pocadot









Pilena tiny leaf (realitive to baby tears)









Sorry for being picture heavy; but please enjoy the viv


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

johnyrocks said:


> Hey guys. I should've waiting to take pics. The broms are perking up A LOT! They were pretty dry, but i'm seeing more red from what i think is a fireball. I also moved some things round to look more perky.
> Full tank shot
> 
> 
> ...


They are liking good


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Krenshaw22 said:


> They are liking good


Yeah they should update their site more often because they had no more black mystic earth stars but it said they had 3 so I dunno but i'm pretty happy I got 5 plants for the price of 1


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## Krenshaw22 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hey good deal there though but the plant I wanted they constantly out of stocked. So Im gonna buy the cafe earth star instead


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey guys. I'm moving this thread to http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...71032-johnyrocks-20l-vert-very-pic-heavy.html. Got some updates posted there.


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