# D. Tinctorius out of the water are very small



## Dan79 (May 12, 2018)

I’m noticing that my tinc tadpoles are morphing into very small froglets that are putting on size very slowly. They morph out thin and around 1/2 an inch long .some are are only an inch long 6 months out of the water. The clutches were a surprise and were laid last July. They were separated and placed in individual deli cups with tadpole tea. The growout for froglets is a sterilite container loaded with springtails and they are fed melanogastors daily with regular dusting. During development I had issues with heating so the ambient temperature was near 68. I also used RO water. Temperatures aside where am I going wrong here? If someone could chime in I’d appreciate it. I have had no more clutches since last August.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Dan79 said:


> they are fed melanogastors daily with regular dusting.


I don't know anything about tincs, and this is possibly not the prime cause of your issue, but: what does 'regular' mean? Typical practice is to dust FFs at every feeding, though some folks may be using some quite dated vitamin supplements that have quite dated dosing instructions. 

What are you dusting with, and exactly how often? Details on the feeeding and supplementation of the parents, and feeding of the tads, would likely be helpful too.


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

at what temperature did you keep them as tadpoles?


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## Dan79 (May 12, 2018)

I apologize for the vague dusting description. I use repashy supercal 3 times a week, reptivite once a week and repashy vitamin A once a month. I’ll toss in a few undusted flies once a week or so if I notice that some are unable to consume the dusted flies. I also add springtails 3 times a week. The temperatures were low as in 69 to 70 degrees and I’m well aware that this is too low of a range. This issue has since been corrected.


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

If they are small when they come on land, normaly this is an indication that the temperature of the water is to high...


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## jtherr (Nov 2, 2017)

Tijl said:


> If they are small when they come on land, normaly this is an indication that the temperature of the water is to high...


I agree. Generally higher temps make the tadpoles morph faster and smaller. How often did you feed the tadpoles and what did you feed? Also, what else is in the individual tadpole cups (i.e. java moss, indian almond leaves etc). Water quality may also be an issue. Are you doing water changes? I recently experimented with raising tinc tadpoles communally and with a sponge filter for improved water quality. The tadpoles were much larger than when raised in individual cups and did not result in cannibalism.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

What was your feeding regimen when they were tadpoles?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

There is the surfactant appearance of contention in tadpole temperature issues, but what is an undeniable factor are water temperature oxygen holding behaviors, and questions of its feature in such an epic transformation. 



I do not think increasing supplement powders - is the pat answer to all problems. In exploring nutrient roles, its important to include the metabolic and transport work of the liver and kidneys. 

Underdeveloped organs are delicate.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Kmc said:


> I do not think increasing supplement powders - is the pat answer to all problems.


No one claimed that.

When attempting to track down reproduction/morphing/growth issues, one first consideration is ensuring that supplementation is adequate.

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/251818-how-get-big-healthy-frogs.html (esp. post 24)

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/337129-repashy-vitamin-plus.html (esp. post 9)


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

As an anecdotal come to practice modality, I recommend being hyper astute to small husbandry tools that may promote more complacency than their actual long term reliability. Its helpful to have 2 types of thermometers if you keep animals. Double checking is a good habit. Becoming aware of room changes and household tendency, and how they impact your habitats, land, water, this zone, that zone, will grow skills that surpass the depth of setting a thermostat dial.

But for the austere situ of tads, it is more an issue of swaths of temp differences per ambient changes being perhaps even periodically but consistently under the radar too warm.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

If there is one cue, paramount to a newly morphed frog, it is fresh air.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Kmc said:


> If there is one cue, paramount to a newly morphed frog, it is fresh air.


Can you elaborate?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Forgive any cryptic tone to my brief comment, I do have uncommonly expressed interest in air exchange in captive closed systems and its underestimation and sacrifice to achieve other principles. My interest has included incubation method in reptiles, arboreal agamid & chameleon husbandry, and outdoor culture of a few amphibian species, and indoor surface area experiences with rearing.

Some of my observations I discovered had correlating data i was unaware of until I researched later - some do not. They remain anecdotal but shaped my personal practices. 

I dont think its controversial to think oxygen levels and temperature effect morphic fry and that atmospheric oxygen and transitional breathing stages have a relationship. 

I would be interested in more input from the OP, and am sharing my commentary as perhaps a potential factor, could be Im off track, could be my post incites maybe even just one person to explore more.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Do you have specific recommendations for dart frog husbandry based on your experience? I have to admit, I pay very little attention to this aspect of rearing froglets, especially late in the morphing process and immediately following morphing. It would be really easy to add a bit more air flow to my initial grow-out setups and where they lose their tail, if that would be beneficial. I already have my tadpole cups and other enclosures open to the air, but I usually use plastic wrap to keep the humidity up in the simple enclosure I put frogs in to lose their tails and then to put a little size on them before moving them to other digs as they get larger (I like to be able to keep an eye on them when they are very small). 

Mark


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Hey there E, I enjoy your posts. I do not claim to be a dart frog expert but I have been in stewardship of some common darts and also some mantellas in the trade. I have had the pleasure to raise other anuran and newt species as well. I have not used deli cups, but small footprint slide tanks. I have had the good providence of humid room dynamics as a husbandry partner. At opposing ends of the room there were humidity differences because of many aquariums bubbling just underneath the stairwell.

I was also fortunate to be present 8 - 12 hrs each day. I am a hand/ pump sprayer mister.

I would sometimes use acrylic pieces, betta tank partitions or cut green perforated plastc tank dividers to create stable condensation in a corner, or whole side. 

my baby strategies always included the accommodation of fresh air, sounds micro manage-y but there is wiggle room in providing space. Plus I am obsessive. 

Without such radical departure from canonized rearing, applying a little more air exchange , at your capable hand might be something you may find worthwhile.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah, humidity is not our friend, here. I have to balance between allowing enough air flow for survival but not allowing all the humidity to escape. I could certainly allow more air flow than I am, though. I will give it a shot 

Mark



Kmc said:


> Hey there E, I enjoy your posts. I do not claim to be a dart frog expert but I have been in stewardship of some common darts and also some mantellas in the trade. I have had the pleasure to raise other anuran and newt species as well. I have not used deli cups, but small footprint slide tanks. I have had the good providence of humid room dynamics as a husbandry partner. At opposing ends of the room there were humidity differences because of many aquariums bubbling just underneath the stairwell.
> 
> I was also fortunate to be present 8 - 12 hrs each day. I am a hand/ pump sprayer mister.
> 
> ...


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