# Lets play 20,000 Questions! (Beginner Bombardment for a Planted Viv!)



## AquaAurora (Jan 4, 2015)

INTRO (skip-able)
So I come from a planted aquarium and riparium (terrestrial plants with roots in an aquarium) background, I want to try expanding into planted vivariums this year! Specifically with the use of emersed grown aquatic plants (many -though not all- species are actually able to live in high humidity environments and not just _under _water). I got the idea to try after seeing [this thread] as I have riccia-a-plenty floating in a plant dumping tank as well as anubias and stem plants that I know can grow out of water (just never tried before myself).
Right now I have a crude setup in a 10g with just LECA and water. Its not properly setup with a mesh and soil top yet, I'm jut trying to see if I can convert my plants to emersed growth before spending $ on soils and other essnetails... I also need to figure out temp control/humidity (misting)/ventilation... If all goes well I'll set up a quarantine 10g for any new plants and frogs, and redo my 20g long riparium as a PFD vivarium (and possibly try Dendrobates tinctorius 'Azureus' but that's a ways down the road).

I've read though many of the beginner guide linked in this section's sticky but would appreciate more details or hear what users did for specific aspects.

OK ONTO THE QUESTION!!
EQUIPMENT
• Humidity and temperature reading devices? Best brand/equipment (for accuracy without breaking the bank-prefer something under $50 if possible)? Good instructions for DIY sensors (made with raspberry)? What do you use, recommend, or would say 'steer clear of'?

• Heating options? I've read PDF like temps between 70-80F day and down to 65F at night. This tank will be in a basement where room temp is... 68F-ish (at least now in winter). If I have a water feature can heating the water work for warming tank above room temp to an acceptable range? Do I need a heat lamp, if so what is a good lamp/bulb to get? Mini space heater? Other heating options??

•Water pumps.. I want a water feature to hopefully help keep a stable humidity (also love the wound of water falls), I was thinking making about 1.5-3" width, 20-23" long water feature at the front of the tank (tank is 12" wide"x30" long without background). I've read about using a pump for waterfalls but don't see details on gph/lph aka flow speed? Any tips or warnings on materials (hosing) or suggestions on how to set up easy access to the pump and plumbing? 
I have a 100gph submersible pump I'd like to hook up to have a mini filter in front of it (bio/clay media and sponge/foam all water is forced through) to catch debris and prevent clogs (also good for beneficial bacteria) then pump water up possibly behind background (see below) and make a waterfall that goes down either slate, river rock, or wood background and back into the main water pool. I'm thinking of using a piece of slate as a cover above the water which can simply be removed to gain access to the pump and filter media. Thoughts? Suggestions?


SUBSTRATE
• I've done some reading, I'll use the LECA false bottom/drainage area but still up in the air about substrate above. I can get zoo bed eco earth compressed or loose coco fiber and sphargum moss, is that enough for a planted substrate? Should I invest in "Atlanta Botanical Gardens" substrate (only seen sold by joshfrogs so far?)? Other options for substrate mixtures (DIY mixing or pre-mades)? I want drainage to avoid root rot but also something that lasts several years.

• Window Screen or Gardening mesh/anti weed mesh/landscaper screen, which is better for planted vivs? I have window screen, but how much of a mess does that make for soil getting down into the LECA/water/water feature?


BACKGROUND
• Still up in the air on this, but I have a lot of leftover ghost wood and manzanita from a recent aquarium scaping project. Whats the opinion of making a *pure wall of wood* (90%+) with expanding foam or other material(???) to fill in gaps (and area behind)? Would possibly be made to have a few levels of elevation so go out several inches at bottom and be right against the back glass at the top? Will that take up too much floor room for PFDs (Dendrobates tinctorius 'Azureus')?

WATER & PLANT FERTS
• My tap readings: pH 7.5 gh 4 kH 9 (aka hard water) I have a butt ton of calcium (hurray! water stained glass all around!) This is just bad for PDFs right? 

• I'm still reading so please correct me if I have this wrong: distilled water for misting and spring water for reservoir/water feature? I've read some brands "spring water" is just filling up tap at a store.. can anyone confirm a brand of spring water proven to work (not be bs tap)?

• To give plants (unrooted species like riccia) needed potassium, calcium, iron, phosphorus, magnesium, etc etc should I ever mist with a mix of tap and distilled, or a diluted fertilizer water? Has anyone with a planted aquarium (that doses ferts into the fish tank) use the aquarium water to mist plants and fertilize them, or even for the water feature (if so what's the water's pH and hardness?)? If I use a fert/tap/aquarium water mixture should I make it a point to avoid misting a frog with that solution? For rooted plants does anyone start stuffing root tabs (osmocote + gell caps) by the roots after 6 montsh-1 year or more to start replenishing nutrients for plants?


PLANTS
• I have to ask: has anyone else tried/succeeded/failed at taking aquatic plants to use for a vivarium (emersed grown in high humidity)? If so I really want to pick you brain over how you converted them to emersed growth and specifics on: plants used, substrate, water, ferts, lighting, temp, ventilation, and humidity. What worked and what did not? How do you avoid mold/fungus on the plants (or cure it without tossing plants or nuking tank with chemicals so PDFs can't safely live in there)? I'd love to see some photo(s) of emersed aquatic plant vivarium setups!

•Open to suggestions for plants that won't get too big (20g long tank mean 12" empty.. so 8"-ish height with LECA and substrate?) and will do well in the high humidity. Prefer smaller/more compact growth.

• I see bromelaids(sp?) used in a lot of PDF vivs I've seen photos of, are they necessary (for water source to absorb water and breed or sleep in)? Whats a small (and small is small?) easy to care for brome? Any other pros or cons of that plant I should know about?


MOLD & MICROFAUNA
•On the subject of ghostwood and manzanita- how bad is the mold in high humidity vivariums? I've experienced (and still am experiencing... ugh) the nightmare of it underwater - I know its not harmful but it IS unsightly. Anyone with some both in and out of water to compare the horror? I've read spring-tails will eat the mold.. am I just inviting a springtail population explosion but putting them into a tank with new wood? 

• Any tips for removing mold myself (besides ripping out the wood completely to scrub down) that's plant and frog safe?

• What are some good starter microfauna? Is it better to culture them and slowly/small dose seed a tank or dump a culture into a tank and pray it doesn't explode or crash?

• Recommended source for buying microfauna?

• How many springtails would you add to a new vivarium setup (20g long with ton of wood) that you don't plan to add frogs to for a few months (to let everything settle in and deal with hick-ups) to keep mold in check but not have _huge _#s of springtails?


FOOD
• Reading up on flightless fruit flies (fff) and pinhead crickets (can't get any locally). Are there other good food sources? Culturing tips/tricks for fff, cricket, and other foods)? Recommended sellers to buy from?

• I have a black worm culture (aquatic thin small worm, larger than most other aquatic worms though (micor, banna, white) but still smaller than terrestrial worms sometimes sold for reptiles), has anyone ever tried feeding these to PDFs? Possibly by putting them in the water feature (if shallow) or in those brome (sp?) plants that collect water.. or perhaps a leaf used as a bowl with water to hold the worms?


SUPPLEMENTS
• Pretty much need noob intro but go into good detail on: What do PFDs need (specific vitamins and even brands)? How to apply it to their live food with best efficiency (least waste of supplement product and good coverage)? Where is best place to get the supplements (recommended vendors/stores/brands)? Storage of supplements to keep them lasting a long time (and how long can they last?). How do I make sure not to over do it and OD a frog on vitamins or cause health issues from unbalanced supplements?


ANYTHING ELSE
• Any other tips, tricks, warnings, or recommendations for setting up a planted vivarium would be much appreciated. I love getting detailed info but remember I'm still new to this! Using vivarium specific lingo and supper technical/nerd terms may make my head explode >.<


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## jaybugg13 (Dec 9, 2013)

I know it's super satisfying to post some questions and get specific answers, but I'd have to suggest using the search feature on the forum. I'd hazard a guess and say that all of the questions you've asked here have been answered already. It would be a great idea to use search and come back and make notes in this post if you find answers in other threads.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

I don't have 2 hours to go through all your questions. But I will answer a couple that jumped out at me. 

Substrate - if you are planning a water feature, consider not using LECA in your false bottom. Use egg-crate to create an open layer under your substrate. If using LECA your pump may tend to run dry because the LECA doesn't allow the water to refill the "sump" fast enough. Some people don't have a problem, but it's not worth the hassle if you can remove the possibility all together. Most newcomers start off building water features in their tanks. For many varied reasons, most people who have set up more than 3 or 4 tanks no longer build in water features. (Just so you know)

Background - Using a bunch of wood for your background held in with a little foam is a great idea and it looks awesome. The only drawback is that if there is not already a hole or a nook in the wood that you can poke a plant or a bromeliad into, it makes it difficult to plant the background. That is why most use cork bark instead of wood. Personally, I use a mix of cork and wood. The cork for texture and planting surfaces and wood for dramatic 3D effects.

Water - get an inexpensive RO unit. It will quickly pay for itself.

Using the Search feature - You really should do a lot more searching on the site. You just have too many questions for anyone to sit down and try to answer them. However, I do not suggest using the search feature at the top of the page (not even the advanced search). You get too much garbage. My suggestion is to use Google or Yahoo, type in your question or topic and then type in Dendroboard at the end. The results tend to be much more useful.


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## AquaAurora (Jan 4, 2015)

phender said:


> I don't have 2 hours to go through all your questions. But I will answer a couple that jumped out at me.
> 
> Substrate - if you are planning a water feature, consider not using LECA in your false bottom. Use egg-crate to create an open layer under your substrate. If using LECA your pump may tend to run dry because the LECA doesn't allow the water to refill the "sump" fast enough. Some people don't have a problem, but it's not worth the hassle if you can remove the possibility all together. Most newcomers start off building water features in their tanks. For many varied reasons, most people who have set up more than 3 or 4 tanks no longer build in water features. (Just so you know)
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply! I didn't realize I'd made such a book of it until I hit "submit" ^^'' Just starting writing it up, reading a bit more "Ooo I need to learn more on __.. hmm not quite finding the specifics I need.. throw that onto the list!"

I'll continue researching and revising my plans!

On the subject of cork background.. I came across a thread in here about microfauna (springtails or isopods I think?) devouring an _entire _cork board background.. Is that normal, rare, or just bs/exaggeration (from your experience/history of reading on this board)?


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

AquaAurora said:


> Thank you for the reply! I didn't realize I'd made such a book of it until I hit "submit" ^^'' Just starting writing it up, reading a bit more "Ooo I need to learn more on __.. hmm not quite finding the specifics I need.. throw that onto the list!"
> 
> I'll continue researching and revising my plans!
> 
> On the subject of cork background.. I came across a thread in here about microfauna (springtails or isopods I think?) devouring an _entire _cork board background.. Is that normal, rare, or just bs/exaggeration (from your experience/history of reading on this board)?


I have never heard of or had any of the cork bark on my backgrounds eaten by anything and I have a very healthy population of several types of springtail and isopods in all my tanks.

If they specifically said, "cork board" like a bulletin board type cork, maybe the isopods/springtails found the bonding agent that held the cork bits together to be tasty, but I doubt that too. Its more likely that a fungus attacked the adhesive holding the cork bits together and the springtail/isopods were feeding on the fungus.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

phender said:


> I have never heard of or had any of the cork bark on my backgrounds eaten by anything and I have a very healthy population of several types of springtail and isopods in all my tanks.
> 
> If they specifically said, "cork board" like a bulletin board type cork, maybe the isopods/springtails found the bonding agent that held the cork bits together to be tasty, but I doubt that too. Its more likely that a fungus attacked the adhesive holding the cork bits together and the springtail/isopods were feeding on the fungus.


If I recall correctly, most cork board is actually bonded together by natural resins from the cork itself. I have no idea how this would affect the isopods/springtails, though. 

Isopods could chow down on cork if they wanted to, but they rarely eat enough to show any difference. I think that story could be true, but I also think it may have been blow out of proportions a bit. I've had cork get really weak on me by keeping it constantly wet in a closed container before, but I doubt any real problems would occur in an appropriate vivarium. 

John


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## athiker04 (Nov 15, 2013)

Hey, just picking out a couple of points:

Hygrometer, Thermometer: I don't use them and I get the idea that a lot of others don't either. Generally if you have a mostly sealed tank (some strips of ventilation but no screen top) your humidity will stay sufficiently high. You'll kind of get a feel for the humidity of the tank. Supposedly a lot of the hygrometers aren't very accurate anyway. Room temp is great for darts so unless you're running a lot of light that might overheat the viv or you're really afraid of it getting too cold, there's no great need for a thermometer.

Water feature: Just my opinion, but I'd keep the water feature to a minimum for the frog's sake. It's really tempting to throw in a nice big one, especially considering your background, but don't forget that darts are almost totally terrestrial. Any water feature is for your benefit, not the frog's. In a 20 gal. the size water feature you're talking about would take up a really large percentage of the floor of the tank. By the time the background sticks out at least a few inches you'll only have a 6" strip of land for the frogs. They'd be much happier with a nice big area of leaf litter. I did make a water feature in my first tank but it was only a "puddle" a few inches across.

I set my tank up with a sump. I'm really happy that I did this. It's easy to drill your tank and add a bulkhead for cycling water back to your sump and this way you never have to worry about messing around inside the tank if there's a need for pump maintenance. It sounds easy to just lift up a rock to access it, but once plants thicken up and roots start going everywhere things will get more complicated. 

Food: So far I only feed fruit flies as primary feeders. I also keep cultures of springtails and isopods which I occasionally dump in, but I mainly see those as part of the tank cleanup crew. The frogs will eat them for sure but they're a small part of their diet. (My frogs are tincs. Thumbnail species would benefit more from springtails in the tank) Bean beetles are an option... FFs are really super simple though so I haven't branched out much.

Supplements: I use Repashy brand supplements as do many others. The main supplements you will need from this brand are "Calcium Plus" and Vitamin A. The Calcium Plus should be used at every feeding. The Vitamin A should be thrown in once or twice a month depending on whether or not your frogs are breeding.

Plants: You can get deeper into the plants than the frogs and I believe some people on this forum are definitely in that camp. Orchids, epiphytic ferns, super rare/expensive stuff, etc. Or you can just as easily grab some cheap plants from the hardware store that will look and grow great. Just be sure to very thoroughly wash the plants before putting them in the viv. There are threads detailing best practices for processing your plants.

Definitely use the "Search". This forum is a massive deposit of dart frog and vivarium knowledge.

Josh


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

I'll limit my responses to a few things:
Temperature-- I would be less concerned about heating up your terrrairum; my guess is that the lighting selected may solve your temperature concerns. Many people have to deal with excessive temps. In this situation, you should research your lighting options (fluorescent, compact flourescent, LED) and choose whichever system will get your tank design into the temp range you (and your frogs) desire. 
Water Feature-- While you indicate you have experience with water and tanks, the task of "controlling water" in a terrarium is more of a crap shoot-- the best laid out plan can be foiled by one tiny flaw, resulting in water going where you dont want it. My suggestion--keep any water features simple--trickles of water rather than running. Have the feature be as straight up and down design so that the water may be follow the laws of gravity.
Best of luck with your project,
Scott


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I will limit my comments to substrate (and echo the suggestion of an egg crate false bottom). I just got done redoing most of my tanks with Turface All Sport Pro. I also have some tanks still using Atlanta Botanical Garden mix, but I prefer the Turface covered with leaf litter look. I have gotten really good growth out of my plants with both setups, assuming good lightning. With Turface, you almost have to have an immobile layer (egg crate) between the void underneath and the little gravel above. I use egg crate wrapped in fiberglass screen edges siliconed to the glass to prevent the Turface from falling down below. The egg crate is supported by PVC pieces. I also have all of my tanks that don't have water features (my best ones have no water feature) drilled with bulkhead fittings inserted. Just one way to do things, I suppose. YMMV.

Good luck!

Mark
P.S. Almost all of the info above originally came to me through Pumilo. I didn't think of any of it ;-)


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## AquaAurora (Jan 4, 2015)

Thank you everyone for your feedback!

*phender & FroggyKnight:* Thank you for your input on the cork, the thread I'd read kinda had me scared away from considering the material, but I will look more into it.

*athiker:* I'm testing (not most accurately) with a tank thermometer and it appears the tank only peaks at 68F (after 5-6 hours of lights on). The lid would get modded (screen added) before any microfauna/food/frog went in but has a little under 0.5" gap on each side of the lid going down the tank's length (10g test tank=20" long, just under 10" wide). On the 20g long I'd probably stick with teh same gap space (0.5" running full length on front and back) unless I find some info supporting other options being better.

Thanks for the info on water feature, after reading replies from a few others I'm starting to lean towards either self contained water fall (those pre-mades and cover it with riccia) or just using some natural fruit/nut shells (saw some on a side labeled seed, money, and split pod and range in side from 2" to 7").

Appreciate the suggestions for food and supplements! And will delve more into the plants before I set up the 'real' tank.

*SMenigoz:* So far the LED lights aren't bringing the temp up above 78F after 5-6 hours of on time. From my reading the Dendrobates tinctorius 'Azureus' prefer 70-80F daytime temps.. I may try using CFLs (have them set up on 20g, 10g test tank using LED right now) to see if that changes temp. I hope I can just use the grow lights to raise temp and not need another heat source (like heat cable or pad under tank, or is that not as viable an option for wet vivs and more for dry terrariums?).
Good point on the water feature.. aquariums are just an "everywhere is water".. controlling it to a specific area only may be a bit much for my first time... may try those pre-made all enclosed waterfalls with riccia covering the fake rock texture.. or just pods for water bowls in the tank.


*Encyclia:*
Thank you for the info on substrates I'll look into the turf stuff (not heard of it before), as well as the water feature. Drilling for a bulk head scares me or possible cracked/shattered glass though... but the $ per a gallon sale is on at petco so I could buy a "back up" in case of a break.


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## SteppingStones (Dec 30, 2013)

Well it looks like we have another member from TPT on Dendroboard lol. I would definitely search around the forum, and read the "Stickies" in each sub section. I found that reading build threads, in Members Frogs/Vivs and Parts/Const, really helped answer a lot of questions I had when I first started keeping darts. I guess I'll add a few things in as well lol

*Substrate*

I have always used a variant of the ABG mix, heres a good thread on the mixture 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63915-truth-about-abg-mix.html

*Plants *

I haven't tried too many aquatic species in vivaria, but a lot of people have success with Anubias sp and HC. As far as bromeliads, Neo. Chiquita Linda is a small fav of mine, as well as Neo. Fireball. Check out the sponsors for plants, as well as Tropiflora

*Microfauna*

Springtails and Isopods are a great addition to a viv. They help clean up, and they usually end up as a food source for PDFs. Check out Josh's Frogs or NE Herp for cultures. You can buy one starter culture, and then create your own to seed your tanks.

Glad to see another TPT member on the forum!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

I prefer to see people research their frogs themselves rather than ask a slew of questions, but I will answer a few anyways. Often by reading, you will find many answers to situations and problems you may have never known existed!



AquaAurora said:


> WATER & PLANT FERTS
> • My tap readings: pH 7.5 gh 4 kH 9 (aka hard water) I have a butt ton of calcium (hurray! water stained glass all around!) This is just bad for PDFs right?
> 
> • I'm still reading so please correct me if I have this wrong: distilled water for misting and spring water for reservoir/water feature? I've read some brands "spring water" is just filling up tap at a store.. can anyone confirm a brand of spring water proven to work (not be bs tap)?
> ...


Hard water is not great for vivariums as it will definitely build up over time on glass (its worse than you think) and it can also damage plants, too. Tadpoles may also have a hard time thriving in water that hard and basic, but adult frogs likely won't care much. RO water is much better all around though and it will quickly be worth the investment.

RO water can be used for everything in a frog tank. I do not use mineral water and there is no benefit to using it.

Nope, No extra nutrients are added into the system. Vivariums thrive without any fertilization and all of the plant's needs are fulfilled by frog feces and dead fruit flies. There is no reason to fertilize your vivariums at all and I would recommend not using any. I do keep planted tanks and I have never transferred water from an aquarium to a vivarium, because it can do more harm than good since you may introduce pathogens.




> PLANTS
> • I have to ask: has anyone else tried/succeeded/failed at taking aquatic plants to use for a vivarium (emersed grown in high humidity)? If so I really want to pick you brain over how you converted them to emersed growth and specifics on: plants used, substrate, water, ferts, lighting, temp, ventilation, and humidity. What worked and what did not? How do you avoid mold/fungus on the plants (or cure it without tossing plants or nuking tank with chemicals so PDFs can't safely live in there)? I'd love to see some photo(s) of emersed aquatic plant vivarium setups!
> 
> •Open to suggestions for plants that won't get too big (20g long tank mean 12" empty.. so 8"-ish height with LECA and substrate?) and will do well in the high humidity. Prefer smaller/more compact growth.
> ...


I'm actually growing a few Cryptocoryne species emersed in my tanks as well as Anubias. Both do just fine and are IMO even easier to grow emersed than submerged. I also have used Echinodorus species with mixed results (mostly due to a snail infestation).

Peperomia species, Ficus pumila (and it's various forms), some begonias, Philodendron species and Fittonia will all grow alright in a 20 long. Your opitions are actually pretty open if you look around!

Bromeliads are not necessary for dart frogs, but many will use them as hiding spots and tadpole depositing sites. Bromeliads require high light and decent air flow in general and are not the easiest plant to keep alive. I have killed quite a few, but I also have some thriving. It all really depends on your attention to placement. 



> MOLD & MICROFAUNA
> •On the subject of ghostwood and manzanita- how bad is the mold in high humidity vivariums? I've experienced (and still am experiencing... ugh) the nightmare of it underwater - I know its not harmful but it IS unsightly. Anyone with some both in and out of water to compare the horror? I've read spring-tails will eat the mold.. am I just inviting a springtail population explosion but putting them into a tank with new wood?
> 
> • Any tips for removing mold myself (besides ripping out the wood completely to scrub down) that's plant and frog safe?
> ...


Don't try to remove mold in vivariums! Most tanks will go through a phase where they will have a bunch of mold, but if you give it some time most of the visible stuff will die back. It is totally natural and harmless to the frogs. Springtails do eat mold and I absolutely love having them in my tanks as they are an effective clean up crew and they double as an essential food source for many darts.

Don't remove it. let it be! I know exactly how you feel about mold in aquaria, but you have to forget about that for vivs.

I think it is best to seed a tank with at least one species of springtail and one species of isopod. The choice is totally up to you though when it comes to choosing which species to go with. It's always nice to save some extra isopods to culture for future tanks, but there is also nothing wrong with dumping an entire culture in there. Again, this is up to you.

Most of the people who commonly sell isopods and springtails are great people to work with. I would just post a wanted ad here for bugs and see who responds.

Not a whole lot of springs are really needed. You could probably split the typical culture you see for sale into two so that you can grow one out and use the other half to seed your tank. There is nothing wrong with having a TON of springs in a tank. The more the merrier when it comes to those guys!



> FOOD
> • Reading up on flightless fruit flies (fff) and pinhead crickets (can't get any locally). Are there other good food sources? Culturing tips/tricks for fff, cricket, and other foods)? Recommended sellers to buy from?
> 
> • I have a black worm culture (aquatic thin small worm, larger than most other aquatic worms though (micor, banna, white) but still smaller than terrestrial worms sometimes sold for reptiles), has anyone ever tried feeding these to PDFs? Possibly by putting them in the water feature (if shallow) or in those brome (sp?) plants that collect water.. or perhaps a leaf used as a bowl with water to hold the worms?


Since you are only just starting with fruit flies, I would reccommend that you check out the varienties of premade dry media that most of dendroboard's sponsors carry. My personal favorite is the one from NE herpetoculture because of how simple it is to mix. Bean beetles and flower beetles are two other great feeder insects. 

I've never tried black worms, but I doubt they would like to eat them very much. The typical "worms" from the aquarium hobby are widely ignored by darts

John


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## The Drunken Gnome (Dec 10, 2016)

phender said:


> Using the Search feature - You really should do a lot more searching on the site. You just have too many questions for anyone to sit down and try to answer them. However, I do not suggest using the search feature at the top of the page (not even the advanced search). You get too much garbage. My suggestion is to use Google or Yahoo, type in your question or topic and then type in Dendroboard at the end. The results tend to be much more useful.


Thanks for the inside on the search feature your tip works much better!


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