# First viv. Already in hate



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

I have finally started my first build. It's a small tank, an 12x12x18 going to house a trio of mourning geckos. It's just going to be false bottom, great stuff, and gorilla glue and peat. I did my first layer of gs tonight. Tomorrow, I will add some more. 

I need to deal with a siphon tube too, forgot about that. Good thing it's not too late. 

I am already regretting design decisions. Hopefully though, once I get all great stuffed, I will be less regretful.

Here is where I am as of today. I think tomorrow I will trim some before adding pots and more great stuff. I would like a four inch pot behind the horizontal branch if it will fit, a small pot near the juncture of the vertical branch on the right and the horizontal, and something to put a trailing plant in nearer to the top. I am considering peat mossing the entire sides of the tank in the European tradition, but it's so small, and it will make it difficult to enjoy the geckos, so maybe not. Opinions welcomed. I am in IT and have thick skin. Although it is too late to worry about that weird wood, but it may rot, I have no idea if it will or not, but I figured that the tank was cheap, I liked the way the wood looked and thought it would be easy to mount epiphytes to and this way I saved my overpriced mopani for the larger tanks.

My false bottom is screened with fiberglass window screen. I do hope this is the right stuff. Also, I see people reinforce support in the middle. My carpenter husband swears mine will hold without support but I am scared it will collapse into a plasticky heap. additionally, I lazily hot glued the screen to the frame. It was either that or sewing, what is the proper method of securing it?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Window screen is perfect. Personally, I would add at least one piece of PVC pipe for a center reinforcement. It should be easy to add at this point. If your screen is wrapped all the way around it, just cut a small hole in it. Put some hot glue on the pvc pipe and glue it in. Since the hole is on the bottom you can just leave it. 
Hot glue should work. What I usually do is to wrap the entire false bottom in window screen. Wrap it like a present. Then I cut a few small slits in and use a zip tie type tie wrap. You know, those little white or black plastic ones.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

I like the look of the wood you used. I have seen that type of wood at pet stores before but I have not ever purchased some to try it. I'm not sure how it will hold up in vivarium conditions but hope it does well for you. It does look like you could easily mount and plant stuff into it, creating some interesting design opportunities.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> I have finally started my first build. It's a small tank, an 12x12x18 going to house a trio of mourning geckos. It's just going to be false bottom, great stuff, and gorilla glue and peat. I did my first layer of gs tonight. Tomorrow, I will add some more.
> 
> I need to deal with a siphon tube too, forgot about that. Good thing it's not too late.
> 
> ...


Why such a gap between the background and the false bottom? 
Pumilo is right you should put a pvc support in the center...make sure to try to put notches on the bottom of the pvc so it can drain and doesn't fill up with water.
The water will sit and get stagnant...
I myself don't like using regular window screen cause too much substrate gets washed through it....I have this window screen made to keep even the smallest bugs from going through it and it drains well but holds your substrate in a lot better. The holes are no bigger than the width of a sewing needle but with regular window screen you could fit like 4 or 5 neddles in each whole.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Why such a gap between the background and the false bottom?


Substrate fills the gap


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

VicSkimmr said:


> Substrate fills the gap


That's gonna be a lot of substrate.....I usually on make mine like a few inches that looks like a pretty big gap like above the doorway...


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## randa4 (Jul 29, 2010)

The wood is Cholla cactus internal skeleton stems. There are a number of species that occur in Mojave Desert in CA, as well as through AZ, NM, and into TX. After it dies and the spines and flesh are gone, you have this nifty wood skeleton. If you were to take a walk in those desert areas, you would see it all over. Not sure who sells it.

Mike in Helotes




varanoid said:


> I like the look of the wood you used. I have seen that type of wood at pet stores before but I have not ever purchased some to try it. I'm not sure how it will hold up in vivarium conditions but hope it does well for you. It does look like you could easily mount and plant stuff into it, creating some interesting design opportunities.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i got the wood at the craft store next door. I was looking for driftwood, but they didn't have any- i thought this stuff looked visually interested and it was cheap, so I thought I would try it.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> That's gonna be a lot of substrate.....I usually on make mine like a few inches that looks like a pretty big gap like above the doorway...




Yes, I agree, I need to go lower. Was nervous and conservative.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> That's gonna be a lot of substrate.....I usually on make mine like a few inches that looks like a pretty big gap like above the doorway...


You can slope the substrate


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

I'm from az originally that cholla (aka jumping cactus) will decompose in less than a year. I would def reconsiders the use of that


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

The setup looks great. I have used chola wood and find it could be very soft when wet. You can also use most any old natural wood you might find in the woods, just make sure it's a pesticide free area. Since this is your first viv. Let it be. You'll need to see how everything works for you. 10 gallons are cheap and you can get a lot of practice making vivs. It can also be very forgiving once the plants have filled in.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

I may "seal" the cholla with waterproof acrylic spray then. (This is not a concern for geckos). It might not last forever, but it will last longer.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

mordoria said:


> The setup looks great. I have used chola wood and find it could be very soft when wet. You can also use most any old natural wood you might find in the woods, just make sure it's a pesticide free area. Since this is your first viv. Let it be. You'll need to see how everything works for you. 10 gallons are cheap and you can get a lot of practice making vivs. It can also be very forgiving once the plants have filled in.


I agree with letting it be. Once you put the plants/broms, that background will be fine... don't spray anything on the wood, just let nature take its course... who knows, maybe the decomposing wood will turn out looking nice on the background. 

Also, you can slope the substrate as stated earlier.

Overall, don't tinker too much with it the build. Once everything grows in, etc, it'll look good.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> Yes, I agree, I need to go lower. Was nervous and conservative.


Yeah I understand.
It shouldn't be too late tho to spray a little more GS and make it a bit longer.
You could slope it but as the substrate settles you might wind up seeing the glass lol.
I would definently spray somemore GS in there so you don't have to use so much substrate but still keep some of the slope to add depth.
That's just what I would do 
Like I said earlier tho about the window screen you might loose a lot of substrate...
I had a good 1" of substrate and it setlled and washed through the screen and then I had about ¼". This is another reason to make the background go lower and not use so much substrate.

I agree with eos the decaying wood look would be cool.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Crap, Drainage. I forgot drainage. I was soo busy ordering plants I forgot drainage.


i can maybe slide some aquarium tubing down the chola on the right and stick it under the false bottom. Would that work?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> Crap, Drainage. I forgot drainage. I was soo busy ordering plants I forgot drainage.
> 
> 
> i can maybe slide some aquarium tubing down the chola on the right and stick it under the false bottom. Would that work?


I'm not sure what you mean lol
Do you mean drainage for your planys you're gonna put in the bacground or draining the water under the false bottom?


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

do I need a tube to siphon out excess water from under the false bottom?


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

With the siphoning, I just stick airline tubing in the very front when I need to siphon. I don't get why people have to add tubing in the GS, but maybe it's because they don't want to disturb anything. Now for your other question. From all the holes in that wood, drainage will not be an issue. Also trust me on the substrate sloping. I left a 4 inch gap from the FB and bottom of GS in my tank, only used 1 inch of substrate in the front, unnoticeable sloping to the back. It won't settle too easily, and with plants and leaf litter, do you think anyone will notice? Hope this helps clear things up.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

I cut 1" plastic tube (kids toy) so its right to the height of the substrate. I place it so it works with the environment. Under a rock, along a branch, get sneaky. You should have the "cap" be inconspicuous. When i need to drain, i just move the "cap" and use tubing (easily purchased from your local home depot) to siphon out the water.
Ive gotten really good at syphoning. I used to get so much nasty water in my mouth. I considered it a rite. I drink what my frogs drink!


ll <rock, chunk of cork bark, branch
V 
l l --- <substrate level
l l
l l 
l l -- <false bottom
l l 
;;;';;'; <water
-------- <bottom of tank

Enjoy
!!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> do I need a tube to siphon out excess water from under the false bottom?


Yeah you will need to drain it once in a while.
I use an aquarium tube and a large syringe and suck the water out...


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

I ordered some plants this week so I decided i had better get the rest of the background done. I looked at a ton of pictures of tanks I liked and all of them had at least one side backgrounded, so I added one wall of great stuff. I decided only one wall because it will make the animals more viewable, but I am not sure it was the best decision. I do like the way it looks much better but I probably would like three sides foamed. I foamed in some very small pots that I hope will hold plants. If not, they can hold gecko eggs. I used gorilla glue instead of silicone and while I have No comparison I thought the gorilla glue was very easy to use. Here is the current state of the tank.

As always suggestions welcome.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

How to you add peat to gorilla glue? I tried it and it broke the glass.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Neontra, I just painted the glue on with an old kiddie paint brush and dropped peat on the top. Not too much glue on the glass, just on the great stuff. When the glue expanded I squished the bubbles out and squished more peat onto it.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

BethInAK said:


> Neontra, I just painted the glue on with an old kiddie paint brush and dropped peat on the top. Not too much glue on the glass, just on the great stuff. When the glue expanded I squished the bubbles out and squished more peat onto it.


Ok. When I did mine, it expanded a lot, so it's basically like applying silicone onto the GS before the GS fully expands, so the foam breaks the glass.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Neontra! You made me nervous so I went outside to check the tank. It's fine and the glue has dried. I did squish out many bubbles and did not allow too much expansion!!


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## fishr (Dec 20, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> I ordered some plants this week so I decided i had better get the rest of the background done. I looked at a ton of pictures of tanks I liked and all of them had at least one side backgrounded, so I added one wall of great stuff. I decided only one wall because it will make the animals more viewable, but I am not sure it was the best decision. I do like the way it looks much better but I probably would like three sides foamed. I foamed in some very small pots that I hope will hold plants. If not, they can hold gecko eggs. I used gorilla glue instead of silicone and while I have No comparison I thought the gorilla glue was very easy to use. Here is the current state of the tank.
> 
> As always suggestions welcome.


Nice vert setup so far. Azureus would be fun to watch.

Just a note. Not all Tincs are aboreal. For instance, I would not suggest Cobalts for your setup. They definitely perfer their ground space.

How about an updated shot with the plants?


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

fishr said:


> Nice vert setup so far. Azureus would be fun to watch.
> 
> Just a note. Not all Tincs are aboreal. For instance, I would not suggest Cobalts for your setup. They definitely perfer their ground space.
> 
> How about an updated shot with the plants?




this is for my mourning geckos. They think glass is floor space!!

I got nothing done this week! Plants should be here next week!! Ready to roll!!

I'm going to have to do a great deal more research about how to set up a tank for frogs. I think I will make Mr Bethinak pick frogs first.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

*I'm planted!! YAY~*

My plants from NE Herp came today so when I got home I got right to planting. I ordered a beginner package but because of the hurricane sale I got lots of lovely extras that i wasn't expecting and when I opened the box, the whole experience was totally overwhelming. I have many plants I will need to keep alive until I am ready to plant the next viv. I need to get started this weekend... Please don't think I'm complaining about NE Herp sending me free plants. I love NE Herp. They are great.

Why the hell didn't anyone tell me that planting is even more nerve wracking than great stuff!!! Getting a big brom attached SUCKS. I hope I have it on there. I used a paperclip and some hot glue. It fell twice. 

Anyway, overall I think it looks ok - I like it much better planted. I hope I didn't kill anything - most of the roots on my poor lemon fern got ripped off. And I LOVE that lemon fern.

Here are a couple of pics:


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Hey Beth,
My only suggestion is to cover the sides in some way (I like black contact paper, think I stole the idea from zBrinks). This reduces stress so the geckos come out much more. It also seems to make the viv "pop" and keeps the light in the tank. Just an idea.
Tank is looking great by the way!
-Field


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

LOL I was just going to post that I still need to make sure i have the right light bulb in the fixture and to contact paper at least the one side!! The great stuff is ugly.

If I had to do it over I would have siliconed the whole three sides in black and cut off the excess. Would be more attractive. 

My mourning geckos are coming next week!! I hope the Kim's like their new home.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

*Re: I'm planted!! YAY~*

Nicely done. Pretty soon, that plant on the top left will take over


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: I'm planted!! YAY~*



eos said:


> Nicely done. Pretty soon, that plant on the top left will take over


It's pot is very, very small, so I hope it will not get too bushy. If it tries to overshadow my lemon button fern it's dead meat.

Thank you!


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

*Mourning geckos here!!*

After a really long day of running back and forth to multiple post offices, the mourning geckos arrived. I put the three of them, Thelma, Louise and Cheryl i the viv right away. Louise tried to make a run for it, leaping onto my shirt but I caught her. Two of the three climbed right to the top of the viv and waved their tails at each other. I left to get them some worms and when I came back they were hidden!! I found one hiding in the hollow of one of the cholla pieces - this made me smile - just what I was hoping for!! Another I caught hopping about but she hid when she saw me. they are really tiny and got lost in the viv really fast.

I'm pretty excited about them. Such a cool species.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

Fantastic job Beth. I really like the design and build. 

ANy pics of the new residents yet?


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i need to get a camera with a decent macro..they are TINY. Little tiny girls with pretty brown wood grain backs that disappear.


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## Vivexx (Nov 28, 2007)

i like the wood you can cut holes in it and plant things


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## gnod (Sep 12, 2011)

BethInAK said:


> I ordered some plants this week so I decided i had better get the rest of the background done. I looked at a ton of pictures of tanks I liked and all of them had at least one side backgrounded, so I added one wall of great stuff. I decided only one wall because it will make the animals more viewable, but I am not sure it was the best decision. I do like the way it looks much better but I probably would like three sides foamed. I foamed in some very small pots that I hope will hold plants. If not, they can hold gecko eggs. I used gorilla glue instead of silicone and while I have No comparison I thought the gorilla glue was very easy to use. Here is the current state of the tank.
> 
> As always suggestions welcome.


this looks SO cool, and with plants and substrate, i bet it'll look really natural. i love cholla wood - i use them in my shrimp tank and they LOVE them


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