# Newbie needs help! (New Pics Posted!!!)



## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Hi, I'm new to the board, but I've been reading you guys' posts for like, months now. I have an entire folder in my favorites labeled "frogs!" and have been slowly adding to it. Now I've finally begun the steps towards being a proud frog owner (not that I don't just love my African Dwarfs to death, but come on, move a little!) and I need a lot of advice.

I'm building a 20H, which I have already managed to sink a load of dough into (stupid Lowes doesn't sell anything in small quantities) Here is what I have so far:










Basically I'm making a slanted false bottom. Where the coco hut is in the corner will have a waterfall feature of some kind, running down a stream to a shallow pond at the other end of the tank. I'm waiting for the water pump to come in, and then I'll add it, and some screen over the eggcrate. The stream, pond and slope on the edge of the pond will have pea gravel. Other than that, I have no clue what kind of substrate to use. I'm planning on housing a pair of terrestrial or mostly terrestrial PDFs- species still undecided. I'd also like to grow several different plants, but I don't want to have a deep layer of substrate. 

My next question is lighting- some people have said that an aquarium fluorecent strip is fine, but will that provide enough light for me to grow broms? And where do I attach broms if I don't have a cork wall, nor deep soil? (the tank will be viewable from three sides, so if any side gets a cork wall it will be on of the narrow ones). 

Any ideas? Criticism is welcome, as long as it is creative and not insulting. Sorry for the long first post, guess I've been keeping it in for a while and finally had a chance to speak up!

~Rachel


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## topaz017 (Jul 30, 2006)

Cool idea there, It will be nice to see when its done. Id make sure you have enough support between your PVC pipe and where the egg crate meets the glass. I bet enough weight on top of how it is now would break that plastic in half.

Plus you might want to think about ways to make sure your substrate doesn't slide down that slope over time too. If your going to have a stream, make sure the water is contained so your substrate isn't soggy all the time.

As far as the broms, you could attach it to a piece of wood that was heavy enough and supported the brom. Just lay the wood in there wherever you wanted it.


And I don't know much about lighting, I've been told I don't have enough but I just set up my first Viv last month too.


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Thank you for the ideas, Topaz!

You can't see it weel in the picture, but there are actually a few more pvc's of varying height under the eggcrate in different places. I've experimented with pushing down with varius amounts of force at different places in the tank and feel pretty confident that once everything is glued in place it will hold up. 

The substrate sliding down the slope is one of the things that worries me most- that's why there will be pea gravel on the slope near the pond, so that substrate doesn't slide into the pond and get the water all muddy. As for the stream, I've been toying with a few different ideas, but it will be water tight (I hope!). The idea that I'm leaning towards now involves a plastic liner suported by small stones or great stuff on the outside to build up the sides of the stream. The inside of the liner will have pea gravel. It will be really shallow and slow-moving, since I don't want any accidental drownings or froggies/gravel gettting pushed around by the current. Still trying to figure out how to get the stream to end in a small waterfall into the pond without messing up the rest of my landscaping plans.

I've been watching your vivarium and I love the way it is coming along! What kind of substrate did you use over the great stuff, and how do you get it to stick to the great stuff? I'm going back to the idea of having a narrow side vertical wall so that my frogs don't have to stare at my printer all day long.


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

WELCOME aboard and I might add you're better looking than most of us froggers around here! :wink: 
Here, here ... for the Hottie!!!

Anyways, flourescent lighting isn't bad. You can uses a cheap fixture from Lowes or Home Depot like one of those under the counter models. I'd say the big key is use one that rated a Daylight 6500K. There are some folks around here that will only use flourescent lighting.

Another option is a Dome Light (aka Clamp Light). Again you can buy one at Lowes or Home Depot (HD). I just bout a 8 1/2" diameter one last week at Lowes and only paid $6.85 for it. I use Spiral screw-in type Daylight bulbs from HD. A double pack of 90 watts will cost you around $9. You also could go with (2) 5 1/2" diameter clamp lamps, too. Again, read the fine print on the back of the light bulbs and tri to get as close to 6500K. I know there was some contraversy around here about HD changing manufacturers recently and the K value was lowered in that change. I think the last pack I bought was down around 5500K. I've been using them for only 2 weeks now and have not seen any negative effects, but we'll see how the long runs works out.

Wal-Mart I'm told also sells the Spiral screw-in type Daylight bulbs. I just never bought any there.

On a personal note, I use both types of light fixtures, but I've been more and more leaning toward the Dome (Clamp) fixture though.

Hope this helps a bit!


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

Me again,

Here's a GREAT link that walks you through how to use Great Stuff and putting the coco fiber on it: http://www.blackjungle.com/gallery/talltank/page1.html

Good Luck! :lol:


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Two posts in a row for the hottie dartman? Im on to you! :wink: 

Rachel, there is a thread somewhere under parts and construction (serch for it) entitled "A river runs through it". Its a good construction journal for creating a stream. I think you will run into problems with the eggcrate slanting like that. You could have your eggcrate level, then use wire cutters to clip out where you want your stream. Then, gs the sides of the stream and coat it with black silicone. You could also stick gravel, sand, etc in the silicone to get the look you want. Hope this helps!


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

Ah, you busted me Brinks!  

Heck I'm over 40 with 2 kids, dog, cat, too many Reptiles & Amphibs, over weight, over the hill, etc ......... I could never keep up!

How about you, you're only 21!


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Im pretty sure the live-in gf would bust me up pretty bad. She didnt like it when a fellow workmate of mine, who happens to be female, suggested we spend a day checking out a couple fish stores in Fort Worth. I take pride in the fact my gf gets jealous over me! :roll: 

haha


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Lol, you guys are too much! Thank you for the compliment, but alas, I've already been spoken for  My husband also gets easily jealous, but it's flattering!

I'm thinking now that I should reduce the slant on the false bottom, but I'm not too keen on completly doing away with it. I kinda liked the idea of the shore of the pond gently sloping into the water (not to mention easier for frogs to get out!). Unless this is a just really bad idea. I've seen it done before on other sites about building false bottoms, and I don't want to have a deep section of great stuff, plus I'm planning on having the stream wind around the tank a little before ending in the pond, so a slope is kinda necessary. 

I've looked at the under-counter flourescent strips in lowes and my main problem is that they all have the on/off switch located on the lamp side. Which wouldn't be a big deal normally since the light will be on a timer, but it would mean no laying the strip flat across the hood. Maybe I can build up some sort of a stand with leftover egg crate that will hold the light a few inches off of the plexiglass top.... that would probably help with reducing heat building up in the tank, anyways. 

The water pump has been shipped, so hopefully it will be here in a few days and the constuction can move forward! Now all I have to do is bribe my hubby into cutting the plexiglass for the hood...


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

plexi tends to warp pretty bad under the humidity/temps we keep our vivs at - A glass top would be cheaper and much more secure.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2006)

Hi, and welcome to the board. 
Im not to experienced with false bottoms, but it seems to me that a slanted one like that would work against the concept behind false bottoms. To much water would wick up at your current angle, and you would have to keep the water level really really low to keep the substrate from getting water logged. The way it looks now, you will have to have 1/4 of an inch deep max to keep things dry.
Or you could let everything sog up and grow Cryptocorynes and Anubias and java moss as ground cover.
Also, if you increase the angle, there will be too much weight to hold the land back from sliding into your pond.
So I suggest a step ladder type style of false bottom. You can have it go really high away from the water, but it will be flat, not slanted. Then step it down a bit more until you reach you pond. Then put in a slant to get your shore line, and easy frog access to and out of the water. So basically it will look like a series of blocks (each smaller than the other) stacked on top of each other to form like a mountain or something.
This will help keep your substrate from falling into the pond.


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

Good idea Cesar. I think terracing the slope would look cool.
I was going to suggest that you have about 1/2 the length of the tank level then use a second piece of eggcrate to slant down into a water feature. then raise your waterfall up above the level section and let gravity carry it down a stream to the far end where the pond will be. If that makes any sense. 

I will be interested in how this idea turns out. Good luck!


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

*welcome*

Welcome Rachel,
Matt (ncsudart) lives in raleigh. You may want to contact him about setup and design. He may even be able to come over and show you a few things with your viv. He also has frogs for sale from time to time, so you may be able to get some locally rather than have them shipped to you. Either way good luck and welcome to the hobby.
Jason


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Ok, ok, I give in! The slanted idea is officially ditched  I like the stepped idea- but just at the water's edge so that the froggies can get ouf of the water easily. I'll go in later and try to turn the bottom step into a beach using pea gravel. Here's a shot of it now:










okay, so the waterfall fixture, made of of stacked slate chips, will be at the back right corner (the one currently occupied with a miniature peperomia). I'll use pea gravel and/or great stuff to make a gently sloping stream that comes to the middle left, and waterfalls into the pond in between the steps and planting cube. 










In the walled-off section to the left, I'm planning on using great stuff and sealant to waterproof that area, so that the brom I plant in there won't have soggy roots. The stream will end in a slate waterfall in the center, and then the steps will be covered with pea gravel and maybe some java moss.

I'm still toying with the idea of a background to block the view of the printer (plus block the movement of the printer when its on from stressing out little froggies) I'm flipping between coco-covered greatstuff or finding some corkbark and hot-glueing it up. 

I'm so glad that I'm working on this long before I'm planning on buying the frogs themselves!


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## topherlove (Jul 14, 2006)

*background*

cork bark and great stuff make a nice background, mixed with great stuff covered in coco fiber, i would say attatch the cork bark by siliconing the back of the tank first(letting it dry) then great stuff the cork bark and mash it onto the spots where youve siliconed, if any great stuff pops out the sides you just touch it up and cover it in silicone and coco fiber


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

The stepped idea is a great improvement on your plans, but I wouldn't bother giving that brome a special place. It is already too large for the tank, and will get bigger and sprout pups in time. If you put in a cork bark or other background, you can get some smaller epiphytic bromes to attach to this, or to attach to some wood features, such as cypress knee--you can just wire or peg them onto anyting above the substrate and they will grow. There are a lot of small Neoregalias, and even some small Vresias that would be more appropriate for this tank. I'm not sure just which brome you have in there, but it's one of the big ones, better grown as a pot plant. You need to think small when you add the plants, because you are creating a mini-environment., a pretender-like version of vast spaces. Larger plants will quickly overwhelm it, and are out of proportion.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

One thing I would like to point out at this point, is give up on trying to create a water/no water below the false bottom, this would only be possible if you had a totally non-wicking substrate.
Settle on having a water level around an inch below the false bottom, and you will save headache and frustration.

Is there a list of species you are thinking of keeping? I know a lot of frogs would be real happy in a nicely set up 20H.


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

:shock: Geez, you guys are never happy, are you? Thats ok though, I can take it, and you have really been helpfull!

The large brom has been ditched and Antone is hooking me up with some more appropriate species. The acrylic hood has also been ditched, hopefully I can get to Lowes sometime soon and beg them to cut some glass in the shapes I need. 

I found a 24" under-cabinet style "plant light" and hubby and I MacGyver'ed the leftover acrylic and some tin foil to mount it and make a reflector shield. (no, I'm not old enough to remember MacGyver, I'm just a Richard Dean Anderson fan because of Stargate) It's not pretty, but its not too ugly and is definitly functional for a mere $10. 

The planting zone has been taken out and replaced with a small cubic island. Not sure what I'll put on it yet- maybe a small statuette, or just use it as a platform for some driftwood. I just didn't want that much open water. Then I sewed some mesh screen onto it and the steps using nylon monofilament. I don't even have the frogs yet and they are the most spoiled pets I've owned! 

As for the species- still wavering b/t azureus, auratus, or maybe leucos. Depends on when I (and you guys) are satisfied with the vivarium, and what kinds of frogs Matt has available then 

I went out to HD last night and bought a bag of just about every substrate they had- pea gravel, two different sizes of orchid bark, green moss, peat moss, and slate chunks. If that water pump ever shows up, (usps is saying that it has finally shipped- but still estimates it won't get here before 8/15) then I can put down screen on the egg crate and start experimenting with the different substrates! 

I'm thinking of trying to get a live moss carpet to grow, or some patches on driftwood. Any preferences? I'm thinking riccia... if I can find any thats reasonably priced. I know that this will mean frequent misting- and that's fine, the tank is next to my comp where I spend every early morning and most evenings. (sad, but true- the life of a college student revolves around homework avoidance methods)


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Alright guys, progress has been made, so I'm reviving my topic!

False bottom has been completed, and rocks have been siliconed to the "beach" and "island". The nice lady at the NCSU orchid conservatory gave me a nice big piece of cork park- and it has been GS'd to the back. I asked her where she got the bark and she said "Some online place called 'Black Jungle'." :lol: I used spare crumblings of the bark to glue into crannies and make two "mounting areas" for the broms Antone is sending me. 

Next, I made a stream, stealing someone's (I lost the post) idea to cut open a plastic baggie, line it will silicone and stick on aquarium gravel. Now the tricky part- aka my husband took over- making a waterfall in the back corner from slate rock and tons of great stuff. That part should be done by the end of the weekend, and I can test out my water system!

Here's the pics:
Waterfall IP:










(there will be a second tier made of slate rock)

Next, Froggy Island:










And a view of it all. The only substrate in there now is some large orchid bark. 










Let me know what you guys think! Next weekend I'll be heading to the beach and looking to see what interesting driftwood got thrown up on shore by the latest hurricane. Also, does anyone know if anyplace other than black jungle carries tropical termites?

~Rachel~


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## topaz017 (Jul 30, 2006)

Ok lets see...


Love the island idea, very cute. I see lots of photo ops from there. 

Nice piece of cork bark too.

- Where is your pump? Is it permanently stuck way down below??

- Ditch the orchid bark, its way to big.. get the Schultz tropical orchid bark with charcoal and ceramic pieces. Put down a little coco fiber on top, and a layer of sphagnum moss. (same as I did for my tank)

- Make sure the tubing that's coming from the slate is covered somehow, you might have wanted to point it up, then out.. but might be too late for that.. I'm sure you'll be placing a piece of slate in front of it

- The moss island is cute, you should have pressed some coco fiber into that brown silicone, that would have looked nice. You still could with some fine tuning.

- The stream is nice, but, Id use something more solid then a plastic baggy.. You don't want a hole in there to flood your substrate later on down the line.. icky soggy substrate! oh nos!

- What is the white rock for around the island? Do you plan on water being all over that? Your water should be at least 1/2 inch under the egg crate. So all that rock would just be.. there.. with no real use... 

- How are you going to keep your substrate from getting all over that white rock if you do keep it? You need some kind of divider there if you plan on keeping all the white rock.

- Use some GS on each side of your "stream" silicone and Coco it. Then you can use the plastic or something else, so water doesn't get into the substrate.

- If your water is falling all that way to the stream, you might have alot of water spatter onto your glass... not sure if you want that. You might want to figure out a way to make it flow down the side, then fall.

These are all just my views. You may print this page and use it as toilet paper. I'm all for a self contained viv without having to change stuff 6 months from now.

Take a picture from the top of the tank so we can see how large each section is.


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Hmmm.... guess its kinda hard to see from these angles... "all that white rock" around the island will be under water. If you look back at the pics on the first page, you can see how the eggcrate false bottom is only covering 3/4 of the viv floor, the rest is the "pond" layer. The top of the white rock layer is still about 1.75" below the top of the egg crate, so the pond will be about an inch deep. Which is why I didn't put coco fiber in the cracks on the sides of the island, I didn't want it getting all soggy since half of the sides will be under water  Besides, I like seeing the brown caulk between the rocks... kinda looks like decorative grout to me. I'm sure that some substrate will end up in the pond no matter what I do, but that's really ok since it would look more natural. As long as the water doesn't get muddy. 

The stream will be very shallow (my pump, which is in the back corner under the false bottom, is a rather weak one), and I didn't want to risk seeing icky yellow GS through the plastic, so I proped up the sides of the plastic slightly with those big pieces of orchid bark (my actuall substrate, which i haven't added yet, is a mix of the smaller cork bark from Schultz and bed-a-beast, leaves and a little moss). btw that is not just baggie plastic, its name-brand freezer bag plastic, which is pretty thick, with a generous layer of silicone. I doubt any holes are gonna get popped all the way through that, end even if a little hole did leak, it would go straight down to the false bottom anyways. 

Maybe it's easier to see in this picture... the tube is located on the top slab of slate, sandwiched between the top and bottom rocks. I'm hoping that there won't be much splash since the pump isn't very strong, especially with the tube raised that high. The great stuff will be covered with brown silicone, some rocks, and coco fiber. 










Here's the top view: 










Hope this makes it a little clearer  Thanks for the feedback!


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## topaz017 (Jul 30, 2006)

The white rock looked higher in the pictures then the egg crate.. my eyes must be playing tricks.

What I was saying about the stream, is you could put one bead of GS on each side, and coat with silicone, coco. You could even just coco, silicone, throw in some rocks, and leave out the plastic. (Yes, I'm a plastic baggie hater) If you did away with the large bark, you'd have more space to plant as well.

And tropical termites, do you mean tropical springtail's (Colombella)?


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

OK, Im officially impressed! Very nice progress. I also don't trust the baggie, but it might just work! 
I love the two tiered waterfall, but I hope you like splash, and lots of it!
So uhmmm, how exactly are you gonna take the pump out to service it?


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Thank you! Yes, the waterfall splashes a lot. I filled 'er up with water today and ran the pump for about ten minutes to see which spots in the viv are going to get splashed. I definitely underestimated the power in that little pump! I tested it out before installing it, and the pressure didn't seem too strong then... There is no way to reach the pump now short of cutting a hole in the eggcrate. I tried a few times to devise a way to reach it but realized that for a pump this simple the only matinence would be replacement. Which would require a big hassle and tearing a few things out anyways. So I'm just going to have to have faith in the little guy 

Here's a pic of the finished waterfall. It's not runnng in this pic cause I'm letting the stream dry out for a little repair. There were no leaks that I could see, but at one spot it's gonna need to have a higher wall put in. As soon as that's all done I'll try a pic of it with running water, it looks really nice! 










Oh yah, and I did mean tropical springtails. That's what I get for trying to type coherently at midnight  I'm thinking of going ahead and seeding the substrate with some springs and starting a ff culture since hopefully I'll be getting a cute little pair of azureus from Matt in a few weeks! Yay! I'm excited. I ordered some broms from Antone and should have them in well before that. In the meantime, I have a few tropicals that I'm going to plant in the viv to see how they do.


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

OK guys, the viv is basically done, just waiting on the broms and driftwood 

Here is the viv with the waterfall running, waiting to be planted:










Here it is planted: 










The plantings: directly above the waterfall, African Violet, "Manitoba". Above that, streptocarpus, "Good Hope". Behind the coco hut, Calathea Micans. Then two peperomias, and a cutting of Pothos vine in the water. There are also leaf cuttings of two miniature rex beginias in there- they probably won't start sending up shoots for another month or two, but I'm counting on them to add color. On top of the substrate is some leaf litter, some green moss (which appears to be doing nothing but rotting), some riccia moss, and a few bits of java moss. 

A view of the background:










The waterfall: 










The water has turned the color of tea- I'm guessing from water dripping down through the substrate. This won't hurt the frogs, right? Would I be wasting my time to change out the water for fresh, or will this just happen again?

I've seeded down the viv with a ton of springs, and I have two ff cultures both teeming with larvae. The driftwood and broms should be in there in the next few days to give the viv a little height. I will be getting my first frogs (two azureus froglets) in a week or two, and hopefully they will be very happy in their new home 

I've sealed the back half of the lid with silicone and don't see even enough space for a spring to fit through. My husband is concerned about escapee ff's though- on top of the lid I have a 2" diam. ventilation hole cut and lined with window screen (just basic, non-metal screen from lowes) and he thinks the ff's could squeeze through the little holes in the screen. Has anyone ever had this happen? The holes look too small for me, but I don't want to underestimate the little buggers. 

Thanks! 

~Rachel


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

Looks great, I'm very impressed, wish my firs viv. turned out that nice.
Alot of critics and alot of support here, over time you will learn what works well and what doesn't. I have 10 vivs. in little over a year, and they only get better and more creative. *Knowing* the frogs you will be keeping helps the imagination. Great pic post.
Tony.
P.S. Would you happen to know a Paul Branson there.


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

yes, the flies will get through the window screen, "Trust Me" you will need to replace it w/ bug netting from REI, or a paint strainer bag from HD, Lowes, or a paint store. cost about $2 for strainer bag, then cut circles and silicne in place


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2006)

That waterfall looks fantastic!!!!!


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## Resilient (May 21, 2006)

What material is your lid? If it is glass how did you cut the ventalation hole? I have a glass lid and am trying to figure out a better way of ventalatoin (right now its kinda slid off to the side with screen taped to it and to the tank to keep everything in) Is your glass? If so how did you cut the hole?

J

BTW it looks great. I wish my first tank turned out that nice.


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Thanks, guys! I'm having a little trouble with the pump surging- but I'm not sure if that can be fixed. For almost a week the waterfall trickled at just the right pressure and then suddenly it starting spurting across the viv! I'm gonna try to glue a few more little rocks in front of the nozzel to slow the flow, but that meant I had to turn it off and dry that section of the viv completely- I lost a lot of riccia that I wasn't smart enough to move first. 

I'm gonna try replacing the screen with the paint strainer as soon as I get a free hour to go to Lowes- I have two exams this week, including physical chemistry, and then I leave Friday for my dad's wedding in VA :shock: I have the broms in, but I haven't had the time to mount them yet... hopefully they'll be fine for a few days just sitting in the humid tank

This is why the viv needs to be done long before the froggies arive


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

I had the glass lid custom cut for me... its a 1/4" glass with a three holes cut in it- one big one for vent, one small one for the knob screw, and a half moon over the waterfall for the pump's power chord. The glass was cut in two pieces lengthwise, and I used electrical tape and silicone to make a flexible hinge.

Luckily for me, a glass cutting shop is in my neighborhood. Its called "BINSWANGER GLASS" I don't know if that is a franchise or not, it may just be a locally owned place, but it is really nice, professional place. The cost of the glass and the cutting was only $17, and they did a nice job of polishing the edges so that clumsy people like me don't get cut


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## topaz017 (Jul 30, 2006)

This is what I did for my glass lid. I got a glass drill bit from ebay, about 12 dollars. I bought these little hose washers from the hardware store.










Whala!

And I even mist through them. I never have to take my lid off.


Here is my lid


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## topaz017 (Jul 30, 2006)

As far as your pump problems.

Trust me, I know this sounds horrible...

But remove the pump, do it now while you still, sort of can.

Make it so you can remove the pump later. Wouldn't you hate to have to rip out some nicely grown in plants and disturb your frogs, say 6 months from now?


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## Resilient (May 21, 2006)

I would second that pump comment. When I put my tank together i had a lot of dirt fall down through the eggcrate before i got the screen on. I realized this was going to be a big problem with the pump and it might get clogged so I just pulled it out. Ill use it on a later tank.

It would be a big hassle to do it with the frogs.




topaz017 said:


> This is what I did for my glass lid. I got a glass drill bit from ebay, about 12 dollars. I bought these little hose washers from the hardware store.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How big of a drill bit is that that you used?


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## topaz017 (Jul 30, 2006)

3/4 inch


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## Kiari43 (Mar 6, 2006)

Thats a great looking viv!! Thanks for documenting the process!


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Glueing rocks in front of the nozzel to direct the flow down the waterfall (rather than across the viv) worked! 

I was very carefull to cover the false bottom with screen, then silicone all of the edges so that there were no places for the dirt to get through long before I added substrate, so I don't think it could be getting cloged. For now, this works, and if it ever starts misbehaving again, all I need to do is turn it off for a day and glue a few more rocks in the way. If six months from now the pump stops working then I'll just have to leave it in there- right now I can't take it out without demolishing the entire waterfall, since it is under a heap of greatstuff below the waterfall. 

In the meantime, the perpeomia is starting to grow- I can see the beginnings of new leaves, and the calathea micans has a new shoot that looks like it will open soon. Which is good because its looking a little ratty now- before putting it in the viv I left it in a pot on a low shelf for a weekend away and returned to see that my cat chewed half the leaves up! 

:x


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2006)

if you are open to not having the waterfall run at some point id say stick with what youve got and wait out the pump. your tank looks great and personally i wouldnt want to tear it apart.

im heading back to re-read the first few pages to try and figure out what type of pump it is.


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

The pump is a 79gph submersible pump... not sure on the brand name, but it was cheap, which is probably why I had trouble with it  Still, seems to be working fine right now:










In other news, the broms are finally planted! Yay! 










Having a little trouble with the flash, sorry



















A beautiful Neo. pauciflora from Antone 






































Okay, so I got a little happy with the digital camera, no harm done, right? :lol:


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Very nice viv. I like the idea of the waterfall in the corner and the stream. In time, when the plants grow in, this is going to look great. 
If you plan on doing more vivs in the future, I would strongly suggest (agree with the others) that you make the pump accessable for easy maintenance. I did the same thing you did with the first three vivs I made and none of them are working any more. The pumps quite and I can't get to them to fix them. I switched to putting Zoo Med 501's outside the tank. With two holes drilled in the glass. It works 1000 times better and easy to clean. I do this on all my show vivs, but not on my small 10 gallon breeding tanks.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2006)

that pump doesnt look familiar to me, so i cant comment on how long itll last, but you may want to run the water feature only when you are viewing the tank. of course dont do this if you need the circulating water to keep the humidity up. aslo, you could maybe put it on the timer with the lights. it may do more harm than good, but i guaruntee if you run it half the time, itll last twice as long before it clogs  i just dont know what the constant starting and stopping would do....probably not much just once a day.....

sorry for the ramble and randomness of those thoughts, just thinking in type....trying to keep you from having to tear that nice looking tank apart.

your plants look great. i got a few of those same broms from Antone. they are really starting to color up now that theyve had a little time to acclimate to my lighting. the one youve got in your 5th pic is turning out to be one of my faves. the stripes and spots are really turning a nice purplish, reddish, maroonish color and i like it!


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I've got some thoughts about the pump but I need some more info before I can write it out so someone could understand it. 

What direction is the opening of the tubing facing: out towards the opening in the rocks, or up toward the celing of the rock structure? From your description of the pump shootig water across the tank, it sounds like you've got it pointing towards the opening. 

When the pump isn't shooting across the tank, does it make any noise? Is the water foamy? Can you see the water level in the area where the pump is? 

Does the flow of the pump change if you unplug it, let the water drop back into the false bottom, then plug it back in?

Do you notice any difference in how the pump runs if you turn it off, tip the tank back and forth a bit (like lifting it an inch on one side at a time and rocking it it back and forth just enough to get water to move across the face of the pump, hopefully removing any debris off the face of the pump) then turn it back on?


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

I read in another forum somewhere that turning the pump on and off with the light timer will actually burn it out faster, and that it is best to have it running continuously, especially in a tank like mine where the humidity is kept high by the waterfall and stream.

The tubing is facing outwards through the rocks- we were afraid that having it face up towards the ceiling of the rock might cause it to flow back down the back of the waterfall and get stagnant in cracks in the great stuff. 

The pump only makes noise when the water level is low, and then it starts frothing. As long as there is sufficient water depth in the false bottom, it doesn't really make any noise or foam. I made sure to scrape off the black silicone from the glass in the area of the pump so that I could see it and moniter the water levels for that reason.

Before, when the pump was flowing at a slower rate, I noticed that if I uplugged it, if only for a second, and plugged it back in, it would flow really fast for the first ~15 seconds or so. Now I don't notice any major difference. 

Right now it is flowing faster than it did in the test runs before it was put into the waterfall, (I filled up a sink with water and submersed the pump, then noted how fast the flow was with the tubing at different heights) so it wouldn't make sense that the face of the pump has any debris on it now. I haven't tried tilting the tank, but right now I am not home and probably won't get home until realy late tonight. I can have by husband test it tomorrow night (I don't have the strength to safely lift it myself), if you think it would somehow help.

Thanks for the help!


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

That really fast flow, is what it's supossed to flow like. Since you're not noticing any differene when you unplug it/plug it back in, there's something blocking the intake to prevent it from operating at full potential. This could be a good thing if you want lower flow, or it could be a bad thing if you want more flow - it's all personal prefference. 

The frothing is as you described, because of low water level which lets the pump suck air into the line along with the water. This can be a problem with the whole false bottom not having enough water, or because water can't get to the pump fast enough which creates a low point right around the pump. Basically the only ways to solve the second case is to open up as many paths for water to get to your pump as possible or to raise the water level in the tanks to some obscene depth. 

One thing people find out real quick with tanks is that you really can't completely control where water goes. Even with the tubing pointing outward, water will still find a way into the crevices behind the waterfall and into the cracks in the GS. 

The way you're doing your waterfall is almost identical to how I did mine in my 75g, but by pointing the exit of the tubing upward into the rock, it breaks up the flow of the water and keeps it from shooting across the tank. Given that water is going to end up in the cracks in your tank anyway, may as well just point it upward to avoid the cross tank water shot.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Nice thread! Your pump is a ViaAqua brand (it says so on top) :wink:

I have used those for various purposes in my saltwater tank and they never last more than a few months, no biggie since they are cheap, but yours will be a pain to replace.

Is it still running 5 months later?


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## sunimrette (Sep 2, 2006)

Yup, its still running. Not a very strong stream, but it is running. I think the next viv I build won't have this complicated of a water feature. It looked great at first, but now with algae all over the place, not to mention how difficult it is to clean and how soggy it keeps the substrate, I doubt I'll do it again. 

Still, I had a lot of fun making it!


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

an easy way to hide a pump is to use a plastic pot that your plant is in but cut the bottom out of it and place the pump down there that way all you have to do is pull the plant out and your pump is right there!! Easily accessible...MIKE


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