# "accidental" frog owner/beginner intro



## bicyclephysics (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi everyone, 

My name is Danielle and I am from SK, Canada. I have recently become the inadvertent owner of a young Pacific Chorus Frog, Pseudacris regilla. I am/was primarily a plant person but recently took on a new project building a paludarium which is to house plants and a few fish. 

Earlier this summer, I bought some floating pond plants in anticipation of starting my paludarium. They came in a plastic tub. When I brought them home, I was about to put them in the water, when I noticed two tiny tadpoles swimming around in the tub! They must have been very recently hatched because their bodies were only the size of a plastic pinhead. I figured I'd put them into the holding tank where I have been keeping my plants and see what happened, since I doubted the plant nursery would want them back. I called the nursery and found out that their stock is from BC. I knew I couldn't release the tadpoles into the wild because they were not local frogs and I didn't know if they carried any diseases. 

It has been several months and one of the tadpoles has fully metamorphosed into a bright green frog about the size of my thumbnail (the other one met with an unfortunate incident when I took it to work in the hopes that our herp expert could help me ID it ). It has been out of the water for about a week and a half. I have been reading as much as I can about raising frogs successfully to try to give this one the best life it can have, since it can't go back to the wild. There is not very much information for keeping wild-caught temperate North American species as pets, presumably because it is not normally advisable. Right now it is in a temporary 10-gallon with a soil substrate and some plant cuttings, and a little dish of water. I've been throwing isopods/pill bugs in there but I'm not sure whether it's eating or not. It is very shy and hides on the glass near the top of the tank all day, though I believe it is more active at night. 

Unfortunately, I can't put the frog in my paludarium, as it was never intended to house a terrestrial inhabitant and has way too much water for it to be happy. I am looking at revamping the 10-gallon with an egg crate false bottom, a small water area, and more climbing/hiding spaces for the frog. I will use a modified ABG mix for substrate, with boiled oak leaves on top for litter. 

*My questions:*
If anyone knows anything about Pacific Chorus Frogs, does this sound like an okay setup? I am primarily concerned with whether 10 gal will be enough space for the little thing, especially since it likes to climb. I have a taller 20 gallon which currently houses plants which I *could* use for the frog, but if it would be just as happy in the 10 then I'd rather keep it there. I also need to figure out a better food source than just the isopods, but I am pretty sure that normal-sized crickets would be too big for it, and the pet stores near me don't carry pinheads or fruit flies or anything. I guess I also need to start dusting its food with calcium/vitamins, is this correct? Any other habitat or nutrition concerns I should be aware of? 

My other concern is that I've read Pacific Chorus Frogs can be passive carriers of Bd/chytrid. I don't have any other frogs so am not particularly worried about it within my home, but I am worried about spreading it to frogs in my area. I only just read today that I should have been bleaching all my waste water before disposing of it .

With the current setup that I have, and considering the possible issues with chytrid, is this frog worth trying to keep? Can I provide it with everything it needs and make it happy? Are local amphibians at risk due to my keeping it? 

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Here's somewhere to begin with your chytrid questions  http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113873


----------



## bicyclephysics (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks Jake. I've read that thread, that's what got me so worried about it in the first place. Since my frog is resistant to the disease, though, I have no way of knowing whether or not it is actually infected. I guess I would have to send a swab to a specialist? Going to have to look into it some more, I'm reading the posts about fecal tests/parasites right now, and wondering if there are any halfway local vets who would do those type of tests.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

You'd have to check with someone who knows more, but I don't think disease resistance makes it more difficult to diagnose a disease...


----------



## Bjcg (Jan 4, 2013)

Can you post a picture? Maybe somebody might be able to id it?


----------



## bicyclephysics (Apr 26, 2013)

this is the best photo i've been able to get so far... don't want to stress it out too much. i am pretty sure it is a pacific chorus frog, from its origin in BC, the stripe across the eyes, the small size, and the long sticky toes. it's pretty bright green. this picture was taken a day or two after its transformation from tadpole to frog. 

the frog has gotten skinnier since then. just tonight since my first post i tried tapping some aphids into the tank; the frog went nuts for them and ate in front of me for the first time! i think i've been providing it with food that was too big for it to eat . hopefully it will gain some weight back now that i've realized what it needs. there aren't any pet stores around here that do fruit fly cultures so i'm going to have to do some reading on how to start up with that. 

not sure where/how i would go about getting it tested for chytrid. something to do with swabbing its skin from its belly to its legs, i gather, but unsure of the specifics and where to send the samples. i am unsure whether the samples can be sent across the border or if i need to do a search for a canadian place that will run a PCR on them. 

i'll try to call the university small animal clinic tomorrow to see if they have any ideas. i have heard that their exotic pet specialist is a bit sketchy so i'm not sure if i should trust her to run the tests properly or to understand what tests need to be done.


----------



## Coniferous (Mar 22, 2013)

Hi I'm from BC and I keep PSCF

For new metamorphous I usually feed them wounded misquotes/black flies or fruit flies. But aphids work too!

Some things to keep in mind with pacific Chorus Frogs...

They like to be off the ground. So give it plenty of stuff to climb on. Also, as you said, provide it with a good place to hide. In mine I have a piece of wood, covered in moss and ferns, that I found behind a waterfall. The frogs have discovered a little area that they can crawl up and tuck themselves in under the moss so that they are covered.

These guys really utilize the vertical space in the terrarium.

They are amazing acrobats! They have specially designed toes to help them stick to surfaces. They are also known as Pacific Tree Frogs. 

They like it slightly wet and will be a lot more active if its moist and humid environment. Misting is a good way to keep it damp and also rinses away poop and stuff which can build up.
If you provide water area they will likely shoot into it if startled. They will hide submerged for over 5 minutes then slowly emerge when the coast is clear.

Defiantly want to cover that ABG up with wet grape leaves or something like that. Because the ABG particles will stick to there skin.

When they get a bit older you can start feeding them crickets. Calcium and vitamins are good.

As for the cytrid I'm not too sure. I would say it should be fine as long as they not in contact with other captive frogs.

In the winter I hibernate mine. By putting them in a tupperware with some dirt and leafs and putting in my fridge. Just make sure that the temperature doesn't drop below 0 degrees or they will die. Also don't let anyone mistake him for an olive! 

In the spring time if it is a male, he will start vocalize. Like all the chorus frogs they are quite vocal and make a variety of different sounds. You can try playing them sounds of PSCF and actually get it to croaking back to you.  

PSCF are quite easy to keep and make great pets! And can be extremely entertaining with their acrobatics.

I will post a picture of my Pacific Chorus Frog vivarium! 

Have fun!

-C


----------



## kshorey (Feb 4, 2013)

sadly they cant be kept here in Washington state, but they are great little frogs and we have them all over. i used to have a few when i was younger and didn't realize i wasn't allowed to keep them. but my experience was about the same as the above. they are aggressive eaters and can take down pretty good size bugs. but i stuck with small crickets. i also remember mine being more active as the tank really grew in. they seem to really like feeling hidden


----------



## bicyclephysics (Apr 26, 2013)

omg coniferous thanks sooooo much! that was a lot of really good advice and your setup looks awesome! I'm also relieved cause the frog is visibly fatter after last night's feast... so glad I found something it would eat!

a few more questions, if I may:
how big is your tank/for how many frogs? do you think 10 gal is enough to keep 1 frog happy or should i move it to a 20? is it okay that I'm just using a regular fish tank (no ventilation) - how much ventilation does your tank have?

thank you thank you thank you!


----------



## Coniferous (Mar 22, 2013)

Hey byciclephysics. The tank I have is a 3 gallon and I have 5 frogs in it. So i'm gonna say that your 10 gallon should be fine.

I mean, I do think these guys appreciate having a bit of space to climb in. The 3 gallon I have was supposed to be more of a temporary set up for them... I'm planning on doing a vertical conversion on a 10 gallon aquarium, similar to this one: DIY: 10 Gallon Vertical Vivarium - ReptileOverload Just to give them some more room to climb, because I've noticed that they spend most of their time in the upper section of the tank they're in now.

As for ventilation you'll want to have something in order to keep all the plants and stuff in the tank heathy. I have a small piece of screen at the top of mine for venting but I also run a small air pump into the tank as well to keep the air circulating.. 

Heres some pics of my frogs!

Cheers,
Coniferous


----------



## bicyclephysics (Apr 26, 2013)

Are young frogs usually slow to learn to hunt and really not shy of fingers (the frog won't move until i poke it, then it leaps away). Not sure if it's just cause my finger usually carries food, or if the frog is lethargic. i have been feeding it aphids from my fingertips (!) but I am worried it's not eating enough. The aphids are slow and I don't think it always notices them. My brother is meeting a local breeder for a "bug deal" on my behalf, and i'm getting a flightless fruit fly culture and a bottle of repashy calcium supplement. 









i know it is a super crappy picture but here is the new 10 gal setup. The background is Redart clay mixed with peat moss, kitty litter (bentonite), sphagnum, a bit of sand, some live forest moss, etc. Some sterilized pieces of wood I found on a beach. Substrate is coco bark chips, peat moss, and small amounts of milled sphagnum and soil. No particular measurements. Lots of backyard-caught isopods running around. I made the false bottom too shallow and the water from the little pond is seeping up into the substrate. going to try to fix without having to rip the whole thing apart. i think this ended up being really good practice for my paludarium, which i can start on again now that i think the frog is more comfortable. it loves to sit on the clay ledge running along the top of the background.


----------



## bicyclephysics (Apr 26, 2013)

oh thanks coniferous, I didn't see that you replied! 

mine still spends most of its time around the top of the tank, either right on the glass or on the clay ledge that runs across the back/side. a vertical tank is a really good idea, i like that link! 

do yours interact lots? i'm really sad that its buddy died cause it would have been so cute to have two. 

your frogs are super cute! do yours ever change _markings/pattern_, or just colour? mine is a clear bright green, no spots or anything. i wonder if it will stay that way as it gets older. it is soooo tiny still!


----------



## Coniferous (Mar 22, 2013)

Hey bicyclephysics sorry it took me so long to reply.

I wouldn't feel too bad for it's sake... they are fairly solitary in the wild. cept in breeding season!  

If you really wanted you could go catch it a little spring peeper. (Native to Sask) as a buddy for it to chill with. Anyway if you did get it a spring peeper there is a chance that they would interbreed (because they are the same genus). Creating a hybrid between the two species!!!!! mwahaha 

is your's a male or female? only the males vocalize so if yours is making noise or has a dark vocal sack then he's a male. if not then probably female

As for their colour marking/pattern changes. I'll do my best to describe it. here it goes... the overall patterning stays pretty much the same. but different aspects of it will change colour independently so they can look like a different pattern. Does that help?


----------



## bicyclephysics (Apr 26, 2013)

Late update!

"Frogberta" (turns out she is a girl - no dark vocal sac and has never made a sound) is now two years old! 

She lives a quiet and seemingly happy life in a well planted 10 gallon tank. She's maybe 1.5" from nose to butt and remains a fairly consistent bright green colour (occasionally she will show a few brown blotches on her skin) with golden highlights and a grey/white underbelly. 

She is pretty laid back and inactive most of the time, having a few favorite perches within her tank. She watches intently when there is activity around her tank and gets very excited (jumps around and falls off her perch like a goof) when the lid comes off. She knows that a hand reaching into the tank means food is coming and will leap straight for it, snatching crickets straight from my fingers. Her feeding schedule is pretty random but on average I'd say she gets 1-2 crickets every 2-3 days, dusted once every 2-3 weeks.

I have never, EVER seen her use the little pond in the corner of her tank for a soak or drink. She seems to get all of her hydration from daily spraying/misting, holding her face up and keeping her mouth open to capture the drops as they fall. 

I have also never had to clean her tank. Her poops just seem to kind of disappear. I've added earthworms and isopods to the tank, and there are some tiny miniature snails and slugs that make their home among the foliage as well. 

I haven't dared to try to hibernate her in my fridge but she hasn't seemed to mind so far...

Hopefully this information will help anyone else who is learning to care for Pseudacris regilla. She has been a very low-maintenance critter to keep and although she isn't particularly fascinating activity-wise, I love how she recognizes me and takes food from my hand, and I enjoy peeking into her tank and trying to spot her hiding among all the leaves!


----------



## Coniferous (Mar 22, 2013)

Glad your frog's doing well. Your frog would utilize the water if it was deep enough to dive into it and something under the water it could grab or wedge its self against. I'm not sure if a hybrid could exist between spring peepers and Pacific chorus frogs but I bet it would look pretty cool.......


----------

