# aquatic substrate?



## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

I've been trying to do some research on what to use for a substrate in my water feature that I can plant aquatic plants in and safe for frogs? Any suggestions?
Thanks


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## Sktdvs14 (Oct 20, 2014)

This stuff. Lots of guys in Japan and Taiwan use it in their Amano style tanks with fish, plants and shrimp. It's like the old Fluval stata but supposed to be better.


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## Polypodium (Jan 3, 2011)

Fluval Stratum gets my vote. I have a breeding population of Cherry Shrimp and have been morphing E. Anthonyi "Pasaje Sarajunga" from the water feature for a year and a half with no issues. 

I also have some Crypts and Anubias growing with floating Amazon Frogbit that likes to reach down and root in the stuff. Two thumbs up for sure!


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## prunfarm (Nov 8, 2013)

If you have a Tractor Supply nearby, 40lbs of Safe T Sorb will cost you around $6. I use it for all of my planted FW tanks.


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

Sktdvs14 said:


> This stuff. Lots of guys in Japan and Taiwan use it in their Amano style tanks with fish, plants and shrimp. It's like the old Fluval stata but supposed to be better.


What is the actual name of this stuff I see aquarium soil and a bunch of Chinese words?


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

Polypodium said:


> Fluval Stratum gets my vote. I have a breeding population of Cherry Shrimp and have been morphing E. Anthonyi "Pasaje Sarajunga" from the water feature for a year and a half with no issues.
> 
> I also have some Crypts and Anubias growing with floating Amazon Frogbit that likes to reach down and root in the stuff. Two thumbs up for sure!


Sounds like I might give this one a try. Do you know the cheapest place to order this stuff from?


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 22, 2013)

Dendro Dynasty said:


> What is the actual name of this stuff I see aquarium soil and a bunch of Chinese words?


It's probably aquasoil (AS). Here is a source: Aqua Soil series : Aqua Forest Aquarium, ADA USA, Aqua Design Amano

However, I think, unless you have demanding plants, AS is overkill. It leeches ammonia for like a month in the beginning, works best with a water column fert routine, and is designed to work mainly for high demand species. Apart from that, it's really expensive. 

Aquatic plants can be divided into two main categories as far as nutrient uptake goes:
1. root feeders (cryptocorynes, echinodorus and some others) which require nutrients in the substrate. If you are planning to keep crypts in high volume, a nutrient rich substrate might make sense. Otherwise, an inert substrate like sand or flourite and root tabs is usually sufficient. 
2. Foliar feeders (most stem plants and others) which take up nutrients from the water column. Again, unless you are planning an extensive water feature with high demand species (at which point you need to think about CO2 addition and a water fertilization routine) run-off ferts should be enough. Stem plants do NOT require nutrients in the substrate so inert substrates are plenty. 

What plants are you planning to keep? I think knowing what you'd like to keep would make suggestions easier.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 22, 2013)

Polypodium said:


> Fluval Stratum gets my vote. I have a breeding population of Cherry Shrimp and have been morphing E. Anthonyi "Pasaje Sarajunga" from the water feature for a year and a half with no issues.
> 
> I also have some Crypts and Anubias growing with floating Amazon Frogbit that likes to reach down and root in the stuff. Two thumbs up for sure!


Stratum is basically knock-off AS. It's designed in a similar way and it does what it's designed to do. But again, it's more expensive for a couple of crypts in a small water feature than sand+root tabs is. 

Also, it's an aesthetic choice. I have tanks with AS, eco complete, sand, and UP aqua shrimp sand (wouldn't recommend unless you're keeping more exotic caridina dwarf shrimp), depending on planned needs and looks. I have crypts in eco complete, AS and sand+root tabs. All show nice growth, depending on lighting levels and water pH. Anubias are foliar feeders so they don't need the stratum. Shrimp sand didn't do well for crypts.

Also, unless you are adding substrate fertilizers, any substrate will eventually run out of nutrients, and either will need replenishment, or you need to change the substrate. 

Long post short, there is plenty of info for substrates, plants and fertilizers on aquaticplantcentral and theplantedtank, and I'm sure many other online sources.

I CANNOT speak to the quality of any substrate for frog morphing etc. Just wanted to clarify that! I can only speak on plant growth, shrimps, and fish.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

You could use calcined clay infield conditioner (Turface, Diamond Pro, etc.).


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

Hobbes1911 said:


> It's probably aquasoil (AS). Here is a source: Aqua Soil series : Aqua Forest Aquarium, ADA USA, Aqua Design Amano
> 
> However, I think, unless you have demanding plants, AS is overkill. It leeches ammonia for like a month in the beginning, works best with a water column fert routine, and is designed to work mainly for high demand species. Apart from that, it's really expensive.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the detailed information. I'm not too knowledgeable on aquatic plants. My water feature is not too big maybe just the length of the entire front of a 40 gallon and maybe 5 or 6 inches wide with only a few inches of water. I plan on adding some crypts anubias and maybe a few others, again I'm not too familiar with aquatic species and if you could suggest some others for the size of pond I'm building would be awesome. And I wanted to add some sand to make it look more natural the only one I could really find that seems ok is the exo terra river sand. If you have another suggestion on that that would help also. The exo terra looks brown I've seen in some tanks a whiter color sand that is what I was looking for to make the plants and rocks really pop and stick out.
Thanks


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

Any ideas on using fluorite or exo complete?


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Actually, that is not aquasoil. It is a similar product though and is basically the Mr. Aqua version of the ADA brand aquasoil. Here is a link to the stuff - http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Aqua-Aquarium-Substrate-Liter/dp/B00JUC6IU0 . Many consider it a superior product to the fluval stratum.

John


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## Polypodium (Jan 3, 2011)

Dendro Dynasty said:


> Sounds like I might give this one a try. Do you know the cheapest place to order this stuff from?


I had a hard time finding it economically and bit the bullet and purchased a big bag from Amazon. Mine was the green bag which was not labeled specifically for shrimp. 

http://www.amazon.com/Fluval-Stratum-Substrate-Planted-Aquariums/dp/B005BU5R0C/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1426203759&sr=8-5&keywords=fluval+stratum 

This is the one.


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

Dendro Dynasty said:


> Any ideas on using fluorite or exo complete?


I have used fluorite for the water section in a few tanks and it works well. The only issue is rinsing out all of the dust.
just found this thread
https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/...d/60014-eco-complete-vs-seachem-flourite.html


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

Ok so far there has been 3 or 4 suggestions all seem like they would do the trick. My next question are they frog safe and would I have to keep adding fertilizers to it cause I would rather not and would the fertilizers be frog safe? And out of the products suggested which would be the best for my project? A small pond going the length of a 40 gallon, few inches of water, and plants such as crypts, anubias and possibly a few others?


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

Any ideas about turface?


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 22, 2013)

Dendro Dynasty said:


> Ok so far there has been 3 or 4 suggestions all seem like they would do the trick. My next question are they frog safe and would I have to keep adding fertilizers to it cause I would rather not and would the fertilizers be frog safe? And out of the products suggested which would be the best for my project? A small pond going the length of a 40 gallon, few inches of water, and plants such as crypts, anubias and possibly a few others?


Play sand and root ferts will be plenty. As long as the sand you choose is just sand and has no additives it should be ok to use. Wash it a couple of times before adding it to your tank.

As for what's frog safe, I don't know, sorry.


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

Any one have the answers to what substrate I should use out of the recommended ones listed? I would rather not have to add fertilizers. As of right now I'm leaning toward the fluval stratum I see NE Herp offers it so why not should be ok right? unless any one has any ideas that will change my mind.


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## a hill (Aug 4, 2007)

I've done high end planted tanks for around a decade now. I guarantee you anything you decide to use will work well. You can get fancy with aqua soil Amazonia or stay simple with turface or just use sand. 

I'd avoid clown puke though. 

In the tanks I'm working on I may add a little aquasoil the fine version of the stuff for aesthetics. 

If you use fluorite, I don't recommend washing it if it's going in a Viv. You can easily flush out any excess dust. 

Any plants will grow well in such shallow water. I don't recommend root tabs or anything. 










-Andrew


Smiling when unhappy makes you happier. 
Transcribed via Siri.


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

a hill said:


> I've done high end planted tanks for around a decade now. I guarantee you anything you decide to use will work well. You can get fancy with aqua soil Amazonia or stay simple with turface or just use sand.
> 
> I'd avoid clown puke though.
> 
> ...


I was going to use fluval stratum the green bag I found one person on amazon that had one bag left I ordered it and got an email saying canceled out of stock  so I just went with eco complete which was probably better for me it is half the price. Have you had any experience with eco complete?


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## Dendro Dynasty (Jul 11, 2013)

I also ordered some river sand to make the water feature look more natural


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## toxicterribilis (Mar 21, 2008)

I use ELOS Terra.. An incredible natural substrate..
Not the easiest to find but well worth searching for..
I have a half dozen bags I can part with if it's something that peaks your interest..


Naturalsoils > Freshwater > ELOS


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