# Wild moss



## d-prime (Sep 29, 2008)

I just went for a good hike today and picked some neat samples of various moss species. I want to test them in my vivarium but am worried and am wondering if it is risky to "test" moss in a viv with expensive plants and frogs. In terms of steralizing it to make sure no invasive organisms make way into my tank i took some moss and put it in a diluted water/vinegar solution and am letting it soak. It is a temperate moss so i am not sure what will happen. Any advice concerning anything is appreciated


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

There is always a risk, you can try a 10% bleach solution but im not sure if moss handles that as well as other plants. I dont bother to treat mine and so far with the exception of the occasional centipede or so i havent had any problems. 

Try to take it from an area u know is pestacide free and probably hasnt had much in the way of amphibians treading on it....like say moss from near by a pond might be more prone to having some stuff from native frogs that might be bad for our darts and stuff.

Not all temperate mosses need a dormant period, and many will work in a viv depending on your individual conditions. Its basically a trial and error kinda thing. The more south you are the better your chances of finding something that will work probably....if you have any friends in mississippi, georgia, alabama, flordia or south texa could alway hit them up to mail you some local mosses


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I was thinking about this too, There's a bunch of cool moss near me, including a ton of sphagnum, but I really wouldn't risk it.

As Dave said, most temperate mosses need a dormant period that they won't get in the viv.


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## d-prime (Sep 29, 2008)

Thats somewhat a relief. The moss is from a natural park, where the moss was taken off of tree stumps and the ground. I have seen spotted salamanders, redbacks, all kinds of toads, peepers, and of course the aquatic species. I found a moss that looked like a terrestrial java moss but bright green, and it has no earth on it and no visible insects. Does the bleach method work better than vinegar?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

bobberly1 said:


> I was thinking about this too, There's a bunch of cool moss near me, including a ton of sphagnum, but I really wouldn't risk it.
> 
> As Dave said, most temperate mosses need a dormant period that they won't get in the viv.


No no im saying they are worth a shot because MANY DO NOT, need a dormant period  Even ones that do or dont but still dye off eventually will often stay nice for months and they often make a good substrate for other mosses. ...If you dont mind the risk. Which i personally dont think is huge...but it might be to much for some.


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## dj98ram (Dec 17, 2008)

I have been collecting local moss for quite some time and have had really good sucess with them. I have a "moss tank" that I put all collected items in for at least 2 months prior to introducing into a viv with frogs in it. There are many reasons for doing so, but here are the 2 main reasons I have found: 1) I am able to acclimate the mosses properly to thrive in a viv environment. Most of them do really well right off the bat, but if I need to adjust lighting, watering, positioning, I can do so without stressing the frogs. 2) I can find out what little creepy-crawlies are livinig in them. Sometimes you get lucky and there are no bugs, but for the most part there are lots of them. When I find them, I simply remove them and wash all of the moss very well and place it back in the moss tank for observation.
I've had the most success with pillow moss, but I've collected 5 other species I've yet to identify that have all done well too.
I would not advise collecting a local moss and just throwing it in your dart viv. But, it can be used if properly acclimated and washed.


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## d-prime (Sep 29, 2008)

I might give the moss tank a try. I actually took one species i found and washed it in a 10 % bleach solution, and it immediatley turned yellow so i dont think im going to try that on the other species. I was thinking using the CO2 method which would benifit the moss but kill all the insects, but some anaerobic bacteria would still survive. What about those natural cleaning products that are made from fruits and stuff?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

What makes you think that diluted vinegar is a disinfectant? There is some activity against bacteria when used undiluted but it is no where near as effective as other disinfectants and needs to be used undiluted. (for example see Chicago Journals - Infection Control and Hospital Epidemiology) 

Ed


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## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

dj98ram said:


> I have been collecting local moss for quite some time and have had really good sucess with them. I have a "moss tank" that I put all collected items in for at least 2 months prior to introducing into a viv with frogs in it. There are many reasons for doing so, but here are the 2 main reasons I have found: 1) I am able to acclimate the mosses properly to thrive in a viv environment. Most of them do really well right off the bat, but if I need to adjust lighting, watering, positioning, I can do so without stressing the frogs. 2) I can find out what little creepy-crawlies are livinig in them. Sometimes you get lucky and there are no bugs, but for the most part there are lots of them. When I find them, I simply remove them and wash all of the moss very well and place it back in the moss tank for observation.
> I've had the most success with pillow moss, but I've collected 5 other species I've yet to identify that have all done well too.
> I would not advise collecting a local moss and just throwing it in your dart viv. But, it can be used if properly acclimated and washed.


I acually have done the same thing and so far everything is going great. It's definately worth trying. I have the "java" moss in mine to. Its mostly died off (I think it needs to stay pretty moist) but I have noticed new fronds sprouting here and there. Also thus far the only bug I've noticed is a pinhead cricket, named Tommy lol


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## dj98ram (Dec 17, 2008)

stitchb said:


> I acually have done the same thing and so far everything is going great. It's definately worth trying. I have the "java" moss in mine to. Its mostly died off (I think it needs to stay pretty moist) but I have noticed new fronds sprouting here and there. Also thus far the only bug I've noticed is a pinhead cricket, named Tommy lol


 I haven't named any of my bugs yet, but I suppose I could start doing so. I might run out of names pretty fast though.


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

In my experience, the moss I collected locally has done pretty well for me and is growing like crazy. I try to keep it wet by misting each day and with the strong artificial lights, it seems to be doing very well. I might have to look up pictures of when I first planted it and then post some recent pictures to illustrate the spreading. 

-Matt


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## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

McBobs said:


> In my experience, the moss I collected locally has done pretty well for me and is growing like crazy. I try to keep it wet by misting each day and with the strong artificial lights, it seems to be doing very well. I might have to look up pictures of when I first planted it and then post some recent pictures to illustrate the spreading.
> 
> -Matt


I'd love to see your results for a little motivation!!!

Also I found another pinhead yesterday and named him Philip haha


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## macspoison (Oct 19, 2008)

I collected temp moss for years and one thing I found that you can do is freeze it. Place it in a gallon size zip lock bag and toss it in for a day or two. Take it out and let it warm up slow. Leave it in the bag. 

This helps knock out a few bugs. Also I found what we use to call button moss worked the best. Looked like little shaved heads, blue/green in color. You can even let it dry for a week or so then toss it in the freezer. Either way worked pretty good for me.
Mac


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## d-prime (Sep 29, 2008)

Im going to have to post pictures of the moss i found to show you guys. Id also love to see pics.


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## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Well heres some of my pix, sorry I know there not the best (cameraphone)...

Soo here's the setup.








A fern-like little plant. It initally died off but quickly bounced back and seems to be doing great now








This one I think is a liverwort and not a moss. It has broad flat leaves insted of rosettes.








The sphag look-alike








This one seem to be doing the best out of the whole lot.









Here some from when I first gathered them-again not the best.http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/38902-gathered-mosses.html?highlight=moss


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## gold3nku5h (Jul 24, 2008)

Why dont you just quarintine it like you would frogs? makes the most sense to me if i had expensive stuff.


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I just collected maybe five different kinds and I'll be setting them up tomorrow, maybe I'll post some pics then. Love the setup, by the way!


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## alluringeli (Apr 20, 2009)

I wouldnt risk it only cause these frogs are very sensitive. I had some moss that was growing great looking really green then i added moss from another batch and after a few my frogs died off so i dont use live harvested moss anymore i just use the compressed exo terra moss. There are lots of chemicals and fertilizers that are use to grow the moss it make it nice and green which in terms are harmful to the frogs. I mean you can try and treat it like everyone is saying but i wouldnt chance it on my babies.


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## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

"I had some moss that was growing great looking really green then i added moss from another batch and after a few my frogs died off so i dont use live harvested moss anymore i just use the compressed exo terra moss." 
Correlation does not prove causation. Changing your habitat can stress/kill frogs by itself. We neither know what kind of frogs you are talking about or what kind of moss.

"There are lots of chemicals and fertilizers that are use to grow the moss it make it nice and green which in terms are harmful to the frogs."
They are talking about wild moss, not commercial stuff. 

I will say that the critters in moss can be VERY resilient. In 2007, I collected some moss from a FROZEN MARSH in January in central wisconsin. It was completely frozen and I figured by quickly changing the temperature and immersing it in boiling water I would kill most bugs in it. Two days after putting it in a vivarium, I had a large hatching of some type of fly (like mesquito eaters). Luckily this was in the Redeye viv and the frogs went nuts eating them... Nothing got sick or dies, but I was pretty surprised.


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## alluringeli (Apr 20, 2009)

i would first like to start by saying that is very..... for lack of the better word nice.. that nothing got sick or died.. but i will say that if you harvest moss in public areas especially here in new york where we have had problems with west nile and rodents ect.. and they do random sprayings to keep the masquito population down, the wild moss i got from the guy in ( my opinion ) not suitable for sale especially after asking where he got it from and kept trying to avoid telling me. everyone will have different expierence with different things but i highly doubt that me adding a few inches of moss to a viv is going to stress my frogs out to the point they go " oh no a giant hand and new moss lets just fall over and die!" and if your frogs do that then maybe they need froggie councling. but thanks for your input though i truely appriciate it 






lukebalsavich said:


> "I had some moss that was growing great looking really green then i added moss from another batch and after a few my frogs died off so i dont use live harvested moss anymore i just use the compressed exo terra moss."
> Correlation does not prove causation. Changing your habitat can stress/kill frogs by itself. We neither know what kind of frogs you are talking about or what kind of moss.
> 
> "There are lots of chemicals and fertilizers that are use to grow the moss it make it nice and green which in terms are harmful to the frogs."
> ...


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

WHHHOOAAA heated discussion on wild moss and i gotta jump into this convo here.. i mean i agree with eli for the fact that simply if moss or any type of plant life is exposed to any type of toxins or poisons it obsorbs right into it. i mean yes we can soak it in a bleach solutiont his solution that solution but what it boils down to frogs are wayyy to sencitive to the point where i wouldnt risk using harvested moss especially since i also added strange moss purchased by a strange guy and it killed off my frogs. i wont get into detail to much.. and i am trying to breathe considering the big had joke lmao!!
although changing a frogs envirement can stress them out i personally dont believe by changing things around will be the direct cause of your frogs dieing as i often change things in my vivs to make them better ( small changes ) if i feel i need to make a big change i simply make a new viv and move them over. like most people moving can stress you out but i dont know many ppl that just died from it.
we truely cant point the finger to stress everytime frogs randomly die because none of us are vets. but its a different type of stress example, 2 males in a viv fighting and the loser being so stressed and scared he dies yes.. but like i said everything is just someones opinion and the fun part is everyone wants to be correct... but hey enjoy your selves!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DCreptiles said:


> we truely cant point the finger to stress everytime frogs randomly die because none of us are vets. but its a different type of stress example, 2 males in a viv fighting and the loser being so stressed and scared he dies yes.. but like i said everything is just someones opinion and the fun part is everyone wants to be correct... but hey enjoy your selves!



Stress is stress... the effects on the hormone and immune systems by stress are pretty much the same regardless of the type of stress..... 

For example, handling, move to a new enclosure, major change to current enclosure, and fighting all are different stressors and have the same effect. 

You are correct in that we normally can't attribute the case of death without some definitive proof (example we can say death due to becoming a frog chip post escape) and that unexplained deaths are often attributed to stress due to behaviors seen in the frogs but in some respects, stress has a high probability of being an underlying cause due to immune suppression...however in most cases we often consider these animals to be much more fragile than they really are... 

Ed


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

Ed said:


> Stress is stress... the effects on the hormone and immune systems by stress are pretty much the same regardless of the type of stress.....
> 
> i am going to have to kindly disagree for the simple fact for example.. a persons child is hanging out with the wrong ppl and gets into silly trouble such as vandalism, posession charge for trying a new controlled substance in apark with their friends ect.. you cannot compare that stress to stress such as, you cant make your car payments and your weeks from getting it repo'd and in turn wont have a way to work ect.. cant pay your bills so your home will be up for forclosure and your family on the street? so both those types of stress are the same? because me as a man would be able to deal with a child and seek help as appose to not being able to sleep worrying about where my family will be and losing the home we made memorys in. stress is not stress there are deff different levels of stress.. lol the stock market crash that led to dozens of ppl offing them selves.. im sure ppl dont off them selves because their hang nails stress them out and hurt.. but im sure you can make a decent argument and go " well thats humans not frogs" or " your mixing apples and oranges" but stress is stress and yes the frogs are more senceitive but not to the point where staring at them for too long will make them fall over and die. but like i stated earlier we can argue the issue all day and get no where fast. but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

While there may be different "intensities" of stress, the effects on the body are the same... what you are referring is one of the misunderstandings of the effects of stress. It is the duration of the stress that is the problem more than the intensity at the time of the stressor (unless you scare an animal so bad that they have a heart attack). In your reference you are citing what you percieve to be multiple stressors but for example the bill one is a case of the same stressor over a period of time.... 

In all cases, corticosteroids increase which have multiple effects including suppression of the immune system, and decreasing circulating testosterone. 
If the stressor stops (regardless of intensity) then over about 2 weeks the levels of corticosteroids drops back down and the immune system and circulating levels of testosterone returns to base line levels. 
The interesting thing about this is that if the stress remains constant over time (does not increase or decrease) then the animal adapts and the levels of corticosteroids etc return to base line levels. It is when stress is not at a constant level or does not abate that the issues can escalate until the animal dies. If you want to get a good understanding of this effect I strongly suggest reading a copy of Health and Welfare of Captive Reptiles, edited by Warwick etal (published 1995). 
Ed


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

alluringeli said:


> i will say that if you harvest moss in public areas especially here in new york where we have had problems with west nile and rodents ect.. and they do random sprayings to keep the masquito population down


I don't think that anyone here is collecting moss from public areas (which is why the title is "wild moss" and not "urban moss" ). I do agree that it's important to avoid anything that might have come into contact with pesticides though... 

I collected this moss the other day and I'm hoping that it will adapt to viv conditions.


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

Ed said:


> While there may be different "intensities" of stress, the effects on the body are the same... what you are referring is one of the misunderstandings of the effects of stress. It is the duration of the stress that is the problem more than the intensity at the time of the stressor (unless you scare an animal so bad that they have a heart attack). In your reference you are citing what you percieve to be multiple stressors but for example the bill one is a case of the same stressor over a period of time....
> 
> In all cases, corticosteroids increase which have multiple effects including suppression of the immune system, and decreasing circulating testosterone.
> If the stressor stops (regardless of intensity) then over about 2 weeks the levels of corticosteroids drops back down and the immune system and circulating levels of testosterone returns to base line levels.
> ...



::sigh:: like i said a never ending battle with this topic just like most.. as much as i would like to sit here and ping pong details all day and site you some articals on stress levels and life.. ( although you are correct on the corticosteroids ) this still does not prove that giant hand + new moss = stress which = death. can stress cause death in many ways. yes! is it fair to blaim stress on all unexplained deaths no. moss can come from anywhere iv had 2 ppl that were selling moss at shows ( that are not from dendroboard) admit to getting the moss from their back yards. another guy admit to harvesting from local state parks ect... i just say becareful ask alot of questions and dont be afraid to pass up something thats green now for something better and safer later.


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## Beastials (May 20, 2008)

i don't think he's saying that stress was ultimatly the reason. I think all he's saying is, what stress does to the body is principly the same no matter the intensity is given. So, if that big hand, planting moss is what pushed it over the edge, it's not impossible. Therefore shouldn't be ruled out, just because it was a "light intensity". But, that alone to an assumably healthy frog would be extremely unlikely.

Ed, is right. They're not as fragile as some people assume. But treating them as such, keeps us from having to figure out if it was stress or poison. Do excavations to the viv's without the tenants in them. Always insure what you put in, that they walk on all the time is clean. Unless that's too inconvenient, and you'd rather not wait a few days.

If there's anything that all of us have, or have learned. Is patience


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

bobberly1 said:


> As Dave said, most temperate mosses need a dormant period that they won't get in the viv.


I see this statement all the time and I really don't believe it. I have never read it in any of the material I have read on mosses. Many do go dormant under certain conditions. Most go dormant when the supply of water is short. With very thin cellular walls they must be hydrated to grow. They are also VERY sensitive to minerals in the water and must be flushed if hard water is used to hydrate them. I would think the problem for most mosses in vivariums or terrariums is improper lighting, temperature and lack of proper substrate. I doubt it's because they need dormancy. 

Many mosses just do not transplant well and even those that do need the proper growing conditions to survive.

I totally agree with Ed about the diluted vinegar. It may work as a fertilizer though. Many forest floor mosses love acidity. I also believe that soaking moss in a Clorox solution is most likely going to kill it in the long run. They seem to be more sensitive to it than most other plants due to the alkalinity.

I believe that if you are concerned with what's in the moss that may be a problem for your animals, you shouldn't use it. In the areas I saw dart frogs, I did not see any moss at all. Just leaves and sticks.

A great book on growing moss is 'Moss Gardening' by George Schenk.


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## Beastials (May 20, 2008)

harrywitmore said:


> I see this statement all the time and I really don't believe it. I have never read it in any of the material I have read on mosses. Many do go dormant under certain conditions. Most go dormant when the supply of water is short. With very thin cellular walls they must be hydrated to grow. They are also VERY sensitive to minerals in the water and must be flushed if hard water is used to hydrate them. I would think the problem for most mosses in vivariums or terrariums is improper lighting, temperature and lack of proper substrate. I doubt it's because they need dormancy.


I agree with you on this. Although, I don't know a great deal about mosses in particular and probably should read, what you offered up. I do know there are tons of plants and funguses that go into dormancy in nature, but they don't need it to thrive.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

harrywitmore said:


> I see this statement all the time and I really don't believe it. I have never read it in any of the material I have read on mosses. Many do go dormant under certain conditions. Most go dormant when the supply of water is short. With very thin cellular walls they must be hydrated to grow. They are also VERY sensitive to minerals in the water and must be flushed if hard water is used to hydrate them. I would think the problem for most mosses in vivariums or terrariums is improper lighting, temperature and lack of proper substrate. I doubt it's because they need dormancy.
> 
> Many mosses just do not transplant well and even those that do need the proper growing conditions to survive.
> 
> ...



Again....I was misquoted, Along with Harry i am actually trying to crush that myth on this board  

No biggie tho


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

I've got some wild moss that I quarantined in plastic shoe boxes. How long should I wait for anything nasty to show before using it my viv? It's been over a week now and I haven't seen a single bug yet.


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## Vagabond324 (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi, enjoyed reading the thread, wish there was more to it though. In my yard in Delaware I have lots of different mosses, I picked a few beautiful little Klumps of a bright green velvet like moss that I'm going to try to grow in Terrarium conditions using a small 5 gallon tank. I will most likely gather some of the other types also and add them in to see how things go. Now as far as being temprate, this moss is always bright green summer and winter. I don't want to wash it with bleach or other chemicals because I believe that will damage it some what and I really want to see how it does just as it comes from the ground. Now I know they spray by airplane sometimes in Delaware, so I think I would not use this in a vivarium. Anyone have an idea how long these sprayed Chemicals might stay in the plants?


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

Well if its some sort of pesticides or whatever, it can't last much longer then a year or two. If it lasted longer then they wouldn't have to spray every year.

Nice thread. A year or two ago I threw a small shnibit of the spaghnum looking moss from WI into a little hermit crab water dish, with some water and some milled peat's moss, I totally forgot about it and when i came back to check it a month later the dish was full of green, dry moss. Watered it again and it grew  But I think the cleaner lady thought it was trash because now i can't find it.


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## soknleet (Feb 15, 2011)

*This thread is hilarious* , anyway, i have never gathered Wild moss before but are willing to give it a try. Bleach is OUT OF THE QUESTION!, so I'm setting up a small aquarium with gathered "wild moss" just to check how it goes under these circumstances. I'm living in Norway and that's not exactly rain forest climate over here in February so the moss i collected was pretty frozen, but like one of you guys mention this could be a good thing ,with the bugs and other weird creatures in there i mean.
what i did was to gather some fine looking moss in a plastic container and put it in the freezer for a couple of hours (-7 outside but did it anyway), then i cleaned it for old dirt and grass after it was under normal temperature again, put it into the aquarium which I had already filled the bottom with flitermedia, this filter media is soaked with water from a well conditioned aquarium with good water conditions.
I then sealed the top with plastic film so that I retain the humidity, the light is a light fixtures that belong to the aquarium I use a bulb called life glo , maid for aquarium plants, don't remember the K`s.
I hope its gonna start growing ,or at least sty alive 
Give me a hint if you notices a fail or give me some good advice 
Throwing in some pics , sorry for the bad light/pics ,there are four kinds of different kinds of moss ,including a aquatic type

Thank you in advance


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

soknleet said:


> *This thread is hilarious* , anyway, i have never gathered Wild moss before but are willing to give it a try. Bleach is OUT OF THE QUESTION!, so I'm setting up a small aquarium with gathered "wild moss" just to check how it goes under these circumstances. I'm living in Norway and that's not exactly rain forest climate over here in February so the moss i collected was pretty frozen, but like one of you guys mention this could be a good thing ,with the bugs and other weird creatures in there i mean.
> what i did was to gather some fine looking moss in a plastic container and put it in the freezer for a couple of hours (-7 outside but did it anyway), then i cleaned it for old dirt and grass after it was under normal temperature again, put it into the aquarium which I had already filled the bottom with flitermedia, this filter media is soaked with water from a well conditioned aquarium with good water conditions.
> I then sealed the top with plastic film so that I retain the humidity, the light is a light fixtures that belong to the aquarium I use a bulb called life glo , maid for aquarium plants, don't remember the K`s.
> I hope its gonna start growing ,or at least sty alive
> ...


I think you may wanna add some type of substrate like sphagnum moss unless you already know this filter media stuff is good for mosses to grow on.


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## soknleet (Feb 15, 2011)

Yes I thought about it... but didn't know what was ideal for moss to grow on. Is spahgnum good to grow moss on? 
what substrate could you recommend to me, it must be something that can be soaked with water and whit long-lasting moisture so I do not have to spray with water all the time


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

soknleet said:


> Yes I thought about it... but didn't know what was ideal for moss to grow on. Is spahgnum good to grow moss on?
> what substrate could you recommend to me, it must be something that can be soaked with water and whit long-lasting moisture so I do not have to spray with water all the time


Most mosses seem to do well on a bed of long fiber sphagnum moss. Or you can just use peat moss or a more complicated soil mix. If you aren't familar with long fiber sphagnum it is this...









stuff sold as "Peat moss" is usually more like actual dirt. The ideal soil would depend on the species, some may prefer clay or sand based soils or something other then the sphagnum but long fiber sphag is a good all around substrate for many mosses.


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## soknleet (Feb 15, 2011)

im not sure what species they are, yeas i know spaghnum,
petshop next to buy some, realy hoping for this to work out ....


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