# FF culture question



## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

This is probably a stupid question, but what are the little tiny things crawling around my culture that are about an eighth of the size of a ff maggot?


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## ocellaris123 (Jun 13, 2011)

Mites maybe???


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

kgb said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but what are the little tiny things crawling around my culture that are about an eighth of the size of a ff maggot?


Are they tiny white worm/larvae looking things? 
Or like very very tiny spiders/mites?

Steve


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

Its hard to say they are so small. Im assuming they are mites because its an older culture and the media is about gone... they look round maybe and move very slow but in a manner that leads me to believe they have legs....


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

kgb said:


> Its hard to say they are so small. Im assuming they are mites because its an older culture and the media is about gone... they look round maybe and move very slow but in a manner that leads me to believe they have legs....


mites. throw the culture out. remember to toss all cultures at no longer than 4 weeks to prevent these situations. 

james


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

kgb said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but what are the little tiny things crawling around my culture that are about an eighth of the size of a ff maggot?


can you post a pic of what you are refering too?


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

james67 said:


> mites. throw the culture out. remember to toss all cultures at no longer than 4 weeks to prevent these situations.
> 
> james


ah ha ok, i didnt know i had to get rid of them at 4 weeks.... lesson learned, thanks.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

kgb said:


> ah ha ok, i didnt know i had to get rid of them at 4 weeks.... lesson learned, thanks.


how long were you using them for?


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

... i dunno... until they had no more flies i guess...


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

kgb said:


> ... i dunno... until they had no more flies i guess...


 
do you keep track of when the culture was started or write the dates on the cups?


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

WONTON SALLY said:


> do you keep track of when the culture was started or write the dates on the cups?


Nope  I'm new at this. So I write the date when I mix the culture and toss it in 30 days? How many days is it suppose to take for a new culture to produce? Thanks


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

about 10 for melanogaster

james


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

kgb said:


> Nope  I'm new at this. So I write the date when I mix the culture and toss it in 30 days? How many days is it suppose to take for a new culture to produce? Thanks


 
start keeping a journal of all the amounts you use in each culture, find a digital scale on ebay that will at least go up to 2lbs.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

WONTON SALLY said:


> start keeping a journal of all the amounts you use in each culture, find a digital scale on ebay that will at least go up to 2lbs.


what does the scale do? i dont see a connection between using a scale and mites.

its easy, just make your mixture, and toss them at 4 weeks, no scale needed. and you just need a measuring cup for the media (i use 2/3 cup of dry mix per culture)

james


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Same question. A scale? For what? I used to supply several local herp shops with cultures so I have made thousands of cultures over the years. I've never once used a scale.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Same question. A scale? For what? I used to supply several local herp shops with cultures so I have made thousands of cultures over the years. I've never once used a scale.


i was having problems in the beginning with my cultures not blooming to make a long story short i started using different methods to test what worked an what didn't so being the NERD that i am I bought a digital scale to help keep track of things better and I also started a written journal of FF cultures amounts . I found that using a scale instead of measuring cups that i had better results, reason being IMO i had exact amounts of what I was using. I also keep track of how many feedings and times it was used to start a new FF cultures as well.

the scale had nothing to do with the mites.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

WONTON SALLY said:


> i was having problems in the beginning with my cultures not blooming to make a long story short i started using different methods to test what worked an what didn't so being the NERD that i am I bought a digital scale to help keep track of things better and I also started a written journal of FF cultures amounts . I found that using a scale instead of measuring cups that i had better results, reason being IMO i had exact amounts of what I was using. I also keep track of how many feedings and times it was used to start a new FF cultures as well.
> 
> the scale had nothing to do with the mites.


OK, I get it. I though you were saying you were using it somehow to see when to throw out the cultures. Like if it had lost 75% of it's initial mass, it's time to throw it out, something like that.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> OK, I get it. I though you were saying you were using it somehow to see when to throw out the cultures. Like if it had lost 75% of it's initial mass, it's time to throw it out, something like that.


i had to many unknowns in the beginning, and to help reolve that I started using the scale and journal and eliminated 90%+ of it.


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## SeFruitFlies (Jun 13, 2011)

As long as you go through every precaution as to prevent MITES and feed from the culture regularly, your cultures will last much longer then if you would otherwise. A few simple rules would be to set the culture on MITE paper, clean the areas where you handle the FF's after each use and inspect the cultures every few days especially!! when making new cultures. Do this and you'll be fine 

If you have any other questions pertaining this, feel free to let me know.

Thanks,

Preston B
[email protected]
SouthEasternfruitflies.com


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

OK, what exactly do mites do??


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

kgb said:


> OK, what exactly do mites do??


take over the culture and compete for food.


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

Where do I get benzyl benzoate to add to culture and put on shelf to kill mites.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Or you can just order mite paper. It takes any of the guesswork out. It comes in a decent sized roll (more than you'll probably need) and just replace it following the directions with the roll. 

Ed


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

But mite paper is not going to kill the current mites in my culture, benzyl benzoate will...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

kgb said:


> But mite paper is not going to kill the current mites in my culture, benzyl benzoate will...


It won't kill all of the mites or even prevent the culture from becoming infected as there are indications in the literature that resistance can form fairly quickly. 

The whole goal with mites is to manage the infection of the cultures as they cannot be avoided unless you have the ability to practice sterile procedures and screen each fly for mites before placing it into the culture. This can be mainly dealt with through good practices. Usually if someone tells you they don't have any mites at all in the culture, they simply haven't looked hard enough at thier cultures. 

1) turn over cultures every 30 days 
2) do not house cultures close to insects like meal worms or crickets as the grain based foods for these insects are a source for mite migrations
3) do not stack cultures 
4) use mite paper
5) reduce mite loads when making new cultures by collecting the flies in a seperate container and dust them (do not dump from one culture into the new culture) with an ultrafine supplement. Use the flies from the top of the collected flies (do not dump dust into new culture) as the mites are pushed towards the bottom. 
6) Microwave or heat the cultures or use boiling water to kill mites in the dry media (some medias are not able to be heat treated due to chemical additives) 
7) make sure decreases in fly production are not genetic instead of blaming it on the mites. This was very common in the hobby only several years ago, small changes in culture methods have significantly reduced the incident of genetic caused crashes. 

The whole goal is to control them... even if you start with a truly mite free culture, you will have them in your cultures in a relatively short period of time. It is possible to work with fly lines for years with no outbreaks by following the above procedures.


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

Ed said:


> It won't kill all of the mites or even prevent the culture from becoming infected as there are indications in the literature that resistance can form fairly quickly.
> 
> The whole goal with mites is to manage the infection of the cultures as they cannot be avoided unless you have the ability to practice sterile procedures and screen each fly for mites before placing it into the culture. This can be mainly dealt with through good practices. Usually if someone tells you they don't have any mites at all in the culture, they simply haven't looked hard enough at thier cultures.
> 
> ...


 
On #5; what is the best way to get the flies on the top from the others ones to start the culture with?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Gently tap them out like you were feeding them out into a frog tank. 

Ed


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

Ed said:


> Gently tap them out like you were feeding them out into a frog tank.
> 
> Ed


 
thanks again as always.


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## vjf000 (Jun 14, 2008)

I have a question, instead of wasting my supplements on this will it work to use flour or powdered sugar instead for ffs bath?


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

james67 said:


> about 10 for melanogaster
> 
> james


I notice a pretty drastic swing once it starts cooling down in the fall, with my cultures almost doubling tin time 

I don't keep notes, but in the summer where my day time temps can hover at about 80, they seem to mature at 8-10 days. The rest of the year it seems to be 14 before they really start popping. Because it's the same room I keep my high humidity orchids, so don't really worry about heating it (mid 70's during the day, but a drop to the mid fifties at night, during the coolest parts of the winter)


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## WONTON SALLY (Jun 26, 2011)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> I notice a pretty drastic swing once it starts cooling down in the fall, with my cultures almost doubling tin time
> 
> I don't keep notes, but in the summer where my day time temps can hover at about 80, they seem to mature at 8-10 days. The rest of the year it seems to be 14 before they really start popping. Because it's the same room I keep my high humidity orchids, so don't really worry about heating it (mid 70's during the day, but a drop to the mid fifties at night, during the coolest parts of the winter)


 
that is why I wanted a constant of keeping mine on top of the deep freeze, once the outside temps stay down, I will see if the production slows down a bit.


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