# how to eradicate mites?



## amit (Sep 22, 2014)

Hi

I have been reeding a lot of post regarding this subject, but there is still somthing I don't understand. I hope you can shed some light on this issue.

"Anti-mite" paper, or DE powder, is used to block wandering mites on their way from one culture to the other. That part of the story is pefectly understood.

However, what puzzles me is, how do you get rid of the mites that are inside the culture?
Is there a way to kill them without harming the FFs and the frogs?


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

In my experience the mites don't harm the frogs, as the frogs will happily eat them! In the past when I have had mite infested cultures, I put the entire culture in the tank and let the frogs clean it up. This is just for dart frogs though, as larger frogs wouldn't even be able to see them I think. 

What you can do is try and start new cultures that are 'clean', not so much removing all the mites from an existing culture. I have heard that dusting the flies can help to remove some of the mites. You can alternatively buy a fresh culture and start any future cultures with that one. A few things that I have been doing that maybe help- using a pinch of cinnamin in the media, keeping cultures in a relatively clean dust free space, separating new and old cultures, and keeping culture older than 6 or 8 weeks in a different room.


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## staarbit (Aug 15, 2016)

I'm going to add onto what elisborg said -
If you don't want to get some new cultures you can try dusting fruit flies with josh's frogs bug blade before adding them to the new culture. I had a pretty bad mite infestation for a while to the point where even my newly purchased cultures kept getting infected. Dusting the flies with the bug blade and sprinkling it around the outside of the cultures completely cleared up the problem within a couple weeks for me.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

if you search the forums...there is an excellent thread by Pumilo on how to clean your cultures....supposedly they can overrun a culture, so it may be worth it to try....I don't think you'd have any problem finding the post...he has wonderful info on "bugs" as well as drilling glass.....


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## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

If they are not spider mites I wouldn't worry about them. I have spider mites that I'm trying to get rid of, they kill plants.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Just to dispel any disillusions, "mite free" fly cultures are a near impossibility. All you can really do is keep the population low enough that it doesn't impair fly production. I have no idea what Josh's "Bug Blade" is, but I have had good luck dusting calcium supplement on my starter flies in a few sequential cups before adding them to new cultures.


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## amit (Sep 22, 2014)

Well, I have checked on Josh's site and "bug blade" is just dichotomous earth, commonly abbreviated to DE.
It is a very fine powder, 100% natural silica based mineral, that on micro scale has very jugged structure - like tiny blades.
The powder penetrates into the bugs joints, injures them, absorbds moisture from the wounds, and kills them - what a way to die!

So it definitely kills mites - but doesn't it kill the FFs as well?

How does Ca supplement powder helps?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

amit said:


> Well, I have checked on Josh's site and "bug blade" is just dichotomous earth, commonly abbreviated to DE.
> It is a very fine powder, 100% natural silica based mineral, that on micro scale has very jugged structure - like tiny blades.
> The powder penetrates into the bugs joints, injures them, absorbds moisture from the wounds, and kills them - what a way to die!
> 
> ...


The calcium dust, just like DIATOMACEOUS earth displaces the mites so that they can be separated from the flies, but unlike DE, it is less likely to damage the flies.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Actually cleaning your cultures to rid them %100 of any and all mites is an enormous undertaking, but it is possible. And the rewards are great. Imagine the ability to keep your fly cultures going for 2-4 months, not having to worry about quickly disposing of them after the 30 day mark! I ran %100 clean cultures for over a year. Fly cultures kept at the right moisture level kept producing up to 3-4 months. Given, the production of each culture tapers off the older they get. There is really only one way to "clear" your cultures of mites. Read this: Mites and how to avoid them — Fly Facility Essentially, you have to outpace the mites reproduction cycle. A clear understanding of the relationship is also key. Mites have a lifecycle called hypopi. Hypopi are transfered on the flies from one culture to the next. Adult mites do not really attach to the flies. Hypopi attach (depending on the species, in various ways including suckers, etc) This is called Phoresy or phoretic behavior. Mite Orientation and Survival on Flies


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The thing most people don't realize about the mite information is that the vast majority of them aren't an issue for the cultures. They were touted as a reason that cultures would crash in the old days but then many things were offered as a reason for culture crashes ranging from adding too many flies to start off to the media when most were probably due to genetics (and we see far fewer requests due to crashes). 

The most common mites in the cultures appear to be one or more of the grain mites which compete to some extent for the food but they also don't tend to take off until the cultures begin to dry out (when the cultures are starting to be less optimal for the flies). Some of the predatory mites are much more likely to cause the cultures to crash but they aren't likely to arrive in a culture. 

As a result its fine to just manage the flies as they aren't the issue that has been made about them over years. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I do like the method of dusting with calcium...seems pretty easy to do--and is not harmful from a logical point of view...


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## Holdway (Jan 26, 2015)

I have used the dusting method and wasn't pleased with the results. Done it for over 2 months. Me being a bird breeder turned to a old reliable friend. Avian Insect Liquiddator or AIL. Fed out all my old cultures and started over with new ones from NEHERP. When I needed to start new cultures I would ONLY use flies from the NEHERP cultures. Put them on paper towels sprayed with AIL. 

Doug


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dusting with calcium if done properly can significantly reduce the mites introduced into the newer cultures. If you are dusting with calcium you are better off using a narrower deeper collection container than a fruit fly cup since unless you are getting enormous amounts of flies you won't create a deep enough layer of flies for the mites to be shifted to the bottom of the container. 

As I noted above, most of the mites that are common in the cultures aren't going to be an issue and at best you only need to manage them. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Holdway (Jan 26, 2015)

Ed said:


> Dusting with calcium if done properly can significantly reduce the mites introduced into the newer cultures. If you are dusting with calcium you are better off using a narrower deeper collection container than a fruit fly cup since unless you are getting enormous amounts of flies you won't create a deep enough layer of flies for the mites to be shifted to the bottom of the container.
> 
> As I noted above, most of the mites that are common in the cultures aren't going to be an issue and at best you only need to manage them.
> 
> ...



I used a 32oz fly cup and ONLY used the flies that crawled completely out of the cup on their own. With repcal cal powder. I guess I must have done it wrong because it wasn't enough to get rid of the mites. I had mites so bad that you could see them on top of the lids sometimes. ( put them straight into the freezer overnight and tossed into the trash) Not to mention feeling them crawling on my face. By the way after buying new cultures from NEHERP I am COMPLETELY mite free. NOT just controlled. I am NOT being controversial on this. Just what I had to do in order for me to get rid of the mite infestation. 

Doug


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I don't know why you think someone is being controversial. 

With respect to "waiting" for flies to climb out you either didn't use enough calcium dust and/or waited too long to start the new cultures, if the flies could surmount the dust on the cups and their feet, the mites could have done so as well as they have even less mass to overcome gravity. 

Having mites climbing on the lids isn't necessarily a problem or even an indication that they are a problem. As for feeling them crawling on your face that is likely to be either a case of either reacting to the allergens or being psychosomatic unless you were doing something to physically launch the mites into the air and they aren't going to stay suspended for a long-period of time. Do you have this reaction around your breakfast cereal, flour, dry pet foods, fish food flakes ...? 

I have to admit why people don't use anti-mite shelf paper as opposed to attempting to reinvent the wheel. The paper is available through one vendor (who is also one of the longest running vendors supporting this hobby) as well as amazon.com or some of the biological supply companies. This way you get a standardized application (as opposed to hand spraying paper towels). 


some comments 

Ed


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## Holdway (Jan 26, 2015)

Like I stated. I probably done it wrong. But I did put the flies in new cultures as soon as I could have. I could only feel the mites crawling on my face during and after dumping them into my cup for feeding.
Yes it's a big problem (to me) to have so many mites in my cultures that they start crawling out onto the lids and into the DE bed that I had the infested cultures sitting on. (Cultures just wasn't producing well. One boom only)
I ONLY experienced the mites on my face when I was messing with my fly cultures. Not during any other activities.
I have never used the anti-mite paper. But I have used AIL for years with my finches. It's TOTALLY SAFE to spray directly on birds. Adults,babies,eggs,food,water. I would NEVER spray it on my frogs,tanks,flies, or anything else that is going to be put in with my frogs. I don't know if it's frog safe or not. Most likely it's not. But I did spray it on my carpet in the frog room. And on the fly shelf. Wiped a lot of things down with it(paper towels).
Put down a new bed of DE in order to put all cultures back into the frog room.

Most importantly I'm mite free.


Doug


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## viper69 (Dec 28, 2013)

Just curious, how does mite paper actually work? Is there a chemical on the paper? Also could one use Vaseline around container of interest as a physical barrier, if so, how does that compare to using mite paper? Thanks in advance


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Mites aren't bad especially in a viv. They are ubiquitous...


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## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

cam1941 said:


> Mites aren't bad especially in a viv. They are ubiquitous...




Unless they are spider mites but otherwise I agree. As long as it's not an infestation...


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Yes, spider mites and any mites that feed on reptiles and or amphibians are obviously not what I'm talking about.

The "bad mites" can easily be avoided if proper quarantine protocols are followed and your basic husbandry is on point.



Edit: If there is an infestation of harmless mites in a viv then its probably a husbandry issue.





Damon Ryan said:


> Unless they are spider mites but otherwise I agree. As long as it's not an infestation...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

viper69 said:


> Just curious, how does mite paper actually work? Is there a chemical on the paper? Also could one use Vaseline around container of interest as a physical barrier, if so, how does that compare to using mite paper? Thanks in advance


Yes there is a chemical impregnated into the paper, as for vaseline, it's messy and you would have to surround each individual culture with vaseline (which is messy). 

Most of the mites commonly seen in the cultures are going to be grain mites or another species that can feed on the media as the culture ages. Mites were often attributed to the crashing of cultures before people understood that selecting flies from the first emerging flies results in intolerance to the later culture conditions. They may affect "production" but in managed cultures this should be noticeable. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

cam1941 said:


> Edit: If there is an infestation of harmless mites in a viv then its probably a husbandry issue.


This isn't uncommon in newer enclosure as there is a lot of available food for detrivore mites and little competition so booms in cages can be due to factors other than husbandry. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

I'm talking about in an established tank with harmless mites. New tanks almost always have some sort of imbalance as the tank cycles.

In an established tank than its probably over feeding or some other husbandry issue.


Edit: Overfeeding meaning to many vitamins getting dumped in the tank.



Ed said:


> This isn't uncommon in newer enclosure as there is a lot of available food for detrivore mites and little competition so booms in cages can be due to factors other than husbandry.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


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## spikeizzy77 (Nov 8, 2016)

Damon Ryan said:


> If they are not spider mites I wouldn't worry about them. I have spider mites that I'm trying to get rid of, they kill plants.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you have spider mites you should look into getting predatory mites. They will hunt and eat the spider mites. They are natural enemies of the spider mites and will not eat plants or other insects. They should be able to control a light infestation in about 2-3 weeks.


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## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

spikeizzy77 said:


> If you have spider mites you should look into getting predatory mites. They will hunt and eat the spider mites. They are natural enemies of the spider mites and will not eat plants or other insects. They should be able to control a light infestation in about 2-3 weeks.




I tried everything and they do not go away. Predatory mites worked for a little bit but I can't keep paying the expensive shipping for them. I even high concentrated bleach washed the plants and quarantined them and they were back less than 24 hours! I will be drowning the plants for 48 hours. If that doesn't work they are going in the garbage 


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

cam1941 said:


> I'm talking about in an established tank with harmless mites. New tanks almost always have some sort of imbalance as the tank cycles.
> 
> In an established tank than its probably over feeding or some other husbandry issue.
> 
> ...


Or they could be feeding on the leaf litter with little competition or on fungi and bacterial growths on the leaf litter (particularly those that are baked/boiled which enables easier decomposition). Without more parameters you can't make the direct assertion that it is due to husbandry. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Damon Ryan said:


> I tried everything and they do not go away. Predatory mites worked for a little bit but I can't keep paying the expensive shipping for them. I even high concentrated bleach washed the plants and quarantined them and they were back less than 24 hours! I will be drowning the plants for 48 hours. If that doesn't work they are going in the garbage


Raise the humidity. 

Boudreaux, H. Bruce. "The effect of relative humidity on egg-laying, hatching, and survival in various spider mites." Journal of Insect Physiology 2.1 (1958): 65-72. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

Ed said:


> Raise the humidity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did that! I'm just trying to throw everything Away that has them... really only one enclosure that I spent years making. 
Bleach washed the plants and were back less than 24 hours in the new tank that I put them in. 

Don't mean to hijack this thread but here are some pics.. 










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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Do you actually see mites running around in the webs? Are you sure it isn't a mycelia growth on the plants and some small spiders getting into the enclosures? 

If they are spider mites and are reestablishing that quickly then you have a source outside the enclosure that is migrating into it. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

Ed said:


> Do you actually see mites running around in the webs? Are you sure it isn't a mycelia growth on the plants and some small spiders getting into the enclosures?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I do not actually see mites, but they always seem to make these uniform arches when making the webs. I did think that it could have been a fungus but it's favored on certain plants and they die. Almost like the mites decapitated them. They cannot seem to kill the plants with the larger thicker leaves, I have a few trailing plants that lost all of their leaves due to the mites. 


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Spider mites shouldn't be making their webs on non-plant material unless the infestation is so large that the entire area is becoming webbed which is why I asked about the small spiders. 

You should be able to see the mites running around in the web if you look closely check out google images for what to look for .... Also the webbing along the bromeliad "roots" and stolen doesn't really look fine enough which is why I asked about the mycelia. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

Ed said:


> Spider mites shouldn't be making their webs on non-plant material unless the infestation is so large that the entire area is becoming webbed which is why I asked about the small spiders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah I know, I'm confused myself... The webbing on the wood is where a bromeliads was mounted so it was right below it. I rinsed the plants many many times. Isn't there multiple species of spider mites that produce webs? I'm convinced that they are very very small. Might buy a microscope because I am very interested to find out what this is. 


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

That's all possible I guess, but if mites have little competion in an established tank than the spring tails and isopod populations have not been supported properly (husbandry issue). I replenish mine if necessary. 

If the leaves have been boiled and baked and that creates a negative effect than that's a husbandry issue. I agree with you that leaves should not be and I do not. I just let then dry naturally.

These examples can all be controlled you've even offered the solution.

Also, your belaboring a side note I made anyway...

The point of my post was simply that "the bad mites" can be easily avoided using proper quarantine protocals and good husbandry. 

Edit: Not to mention a harmless mite infestation in an established viv would be a windfall for the frogs and nothing to worry about.






Ed said:


> Or they could be feeding on the leaf litter with little competition or on fungi and bacterial growths on the leaf litter (particularly those that are baked/boiled which enables easier decomposition). Without more parameters you can't make the direct assertion that it is due to husbandry.
> 
> some comments
> 
> Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Damon Ryan said:


> Yeah I know, I'm confused myself... The webbing on the wood is where a bromeliads was mounted so it was right below it. I rinsed the plants many many times. Isn't there multiple species of spider mites that produce webs? I'm convinced that they are very very small. Might buy a microscope because I am very interested to find out what this is.


None of them like high humidity or being rinsed down repeatedly. If you had the persistant population that you think you do, then you shouldn't have needed to repeat orders of the predatory mites as the population should have been more than sufficient to support their population. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Trojan (Oct 15, 2014)

I have possibly a dumb question. Do we know if the mites latch on to the flies or do they track the eggs into the new cultures? I get that we often introduce plenty of mites or eggs from culture to culture but what about the mechanism for how flies move it over?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Trojan said:


> I have possibly a dumb question. Do we know if the mites latch on to the flies or do they track the eggs into the new cultures? I get that we often introduce plenty of mites or eggs from culture to culture but what about the mechanism for how flies move it over?


The adult mites are mobile enough to travel from culture to adjacent culture on their own (hence the importance of miticidal paper between cultures), although the mites can climb on to flies to hitch a ride.


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