# Root Rot Help!



## 781frogger (Aug 26, 2014)

Ive had a serious issue with root rot ever since i made my tank (what i think to be root rot at least). My tank consists of about 3-4 inches of ABG mix, with a substrate barrier below it, and underneath that is about an inch of hydroballs. the hydroballs seem to be relatively dry, yet apparently my soil is still too moist. I mist lightly a couple times a week, the tank is pretty well sealed with an interior fan slightly moving the air. the humidity is usually 80-85% inside, am i doing something wrong? ive tried to read up on how to combat rot but still lose plants to it. the larger plants are doing great (i think pothos, tiny dancers etc), but im trying to add some lower-laying plants and they just never survive. any tips? should i "un-seal" my tank and let more fresh air in? how do i dry the soil without the top being too dry for my frog? i recently added the fan and was hoping this would help plants grow better but i guess not. the tank does not smell or anything.. any advice? thanks!!


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## mridener1 (Jan 23, 2015)

I'd certainly suggest venting the tank a bit more considering your misting regiment. If that's not an option for you, slow down on misting. I mist my sealed tank when I think I can (almost never). Maybe once a month and usually only to DEEP clean fecal matter (getting every leaf wet and wipe obsessively). 

How long has this tank been set up and are you producing mold on any of your wood?

Note - blowing around humid air won't dry anything or help your situation. Gotta get that moisture out some way.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

am curious what you are using to separate the ABG mix from the hydroton...it may be that whatever you are using is just not allowing good drainage into the hydroton...and there should be a small gap between the top of the hydroton and the mesh you use... that's why people use eggcrate to stabilize the mesh so that it allows for that gap....


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

I had the same thought. The barrier must not be allowing the water to drain thru. Where did the ABG come from? Some people seem to have different ideas of the ingredients and ratios in ABG.


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## 781frogger (Aug 26, 2014)

its cork bark ,there is no mold on it. i HAD a bunch of mood moss on top of my soil , but i took it out hoping it would dry the soil. this was a couple months ago, the soil molded very quickly but that has gone away since. 

I was under the impression that air circulation would help the plants. so i should be trying to get fresh air into the tank then?

the ABG mix is separated from the hydroton by a substrate mesh, and the ABG is from Josh's . so perhaps some day i should remake the tank with an egg crate between the substrate and hydroton? i watched all sorts of videos before i made the tank.. thought i had it right! bummer. the soil isnt really so soaked that its going to drip through or anything though, i think its just very damp

maybe ill try to vent the tank more first and see if that helps. i was thinking that if i kept it as sealed as possible it would retain air moisture well.. such a balancing act, people on here make it look easy  learning process i guess

thanks much for the advice !!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

you have not answered the question that was posed....what is the "fabric" that you used between the hydroton and the substrate? If it is a type of "weedblock" it does not allow good drainage from the substrate into the hydroton portion...and will keep whatever substrate much to mucky...


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## 781frogger (Aug 26, 2014)

the barrier i used was the Zoo Med "naturalistic terrarium substrate mesh". for my next tank, and maybe even for this one someday ,ill be sure to use the egg crate. i can see how allowing a layer of air underneath the soil would help regulate the soil moisture


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Root rot may not be the problem. Root rot is caused by lack of oxygen usually due to over watering and poor drainage.

Drainage doesn't seem an issue... Your false bottom is dry.

If you were over watering your water level would be up above the hydroton.

Judging by your photo it doesn't look like you're over watering.

Fans are definitely great for plants in tight, confined places. In my opinion a interior fan is kind of pointless. I use exterior fans BUT they are regulated and not on 24/7. Having an exterior fan on 24/7 will dry your vivarium in a day.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Some materials do not allow the excess water to drain, and that would account for the hydroballs being dry. There are people who have used weedblock, and they have that issue. I do not know about the product mentioned, but to me it would be at least worth testing by stretching over a bowl or something, and secured with a rubber band and spraying water over the fabric to see just how readily it lets the water through...Personally I use the screening material sold in Lowes that is sold for screendoors that pets can't scratch through--and in the past have used mesh material from Michael's that is used for needlepoint.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

781frogger said:


> the barrier i used was the Zoo Med "naturalistic terrarium substrate mesh". for my next tank, and maybe even for this one someday ,ill be sure to use the egg crate. i can see how allowing a layer of air underneath the soil would help regulate the soil moisture



The stuff he is using _is_ window screen - cut into a small square and nicely packaged and marked up 10,000% by Zoo Med. As you may have guessed I bought the same thing and had a nice moment when I opened it up and found out I paid $8 for a square foot of window screen.


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

someone else on the forum was talking about their background build and not letting it go below the substrate layer as they felt it would wick the water back up into the soil. I have 1 tank with cork background that goes all the way to the bottom of the tank. On that one tank the substrate is always too mucky and smells moldy. the moss,anubus petite, and frogs love it. but regular plants wither in that one tank.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

a question occurred to me--what size tank with what kind of lighting...and is the substrate "THE" ABG, or a mix you made from the basic ingredients...PP is familiar with the fabric you are using, so that sounds okay...have any leaf litter? Maybe if you do not have anything covering the substrate, too much of your misting keeps the soil saturated and no good air exchange or strong enough lighting to help dry out some of the substrate. There IS an answer--maybe take a close up of the situation, and make a note of whether there IS any more wicking...something is out of whack...


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## 781frogger (Aug 26, 2014)

the ABG mix is from Josh's, i did not do anything to modify it. i opened the top of my tank a crack to allow for air exchange and to help push fresh air in. i am hesitant to push air out of the tank, in fear that it will dry the surface too quickly. the soil is still very moist even after a few days of this. 

the size of the tank is a 12x12x18, i have one zoo med UVB bulb in the hood of my tank, the bulb is one of those spirally ones that is about 5" long. it is a weak bulb and doesnt seem like it would have the power to dry the soil. I have been contemplating switching to LED, or even just adding a second hood with LED because ive heard things grow better (although my big plants need to stop growing so much! bad choice of plants in hindsight). I am fairly certain the plants die because of the soil. My older established plants are thriving( i think they like it really wet), yet the new smaller ones rot at the base. so unless there is something else wrong with my soil, im still guessing its a root rot problem. then again im still an amateur so there could be other stuff going on im not aware of..

since the soil is still wet i think i will try to force the air outward and see if that helps at all.. just scared ill hurt the lil froggie by making it too dry! my false bottom isnt dry but its not drowning in water either (although it was a few months back, had to siphon water out) . maybe i just need to get it dry enough that it will start to absorb extra moisture again?

thanks for the feedback i will continue to troubleshoot


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

sometimes when people plant things, including trees, they plant them too deeply...when you put a plant in the substrate, sort of hold it up a BIT..just a bit, then lightly secure that plant into the substrate. What you may be doing when you plant too deeply is that they are rotting at that point where top meets the bottom...a prime place for rot. Even when you buy plants in nurseries, the people who originally put them in the pots have planted them too deeply...so perhaps take one of the affected plants out of the tank...look at where the substrate line hits the bottom (root zone collar) of the plant...and that may be the problem. if there is live tissue above the substrate line, the plant will probably recover...perhaps keep it out of the tank for a bit to let that "collar" dry some..to ensure that you are only replanting it to the depth it should be. Granted, some plants don't care..but most do and will sucumb. Can you take a picture of the plant you take out? Lay it on a contrasting color or paper napkin--shake off most of the substrate, and take a close up. There are lots of more qualified plant people here on DB who could give their opinion...but that just may be the problem.


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## 781frogger (Aug 26, 2014)

you have all been super kind to give me your input, this will be my last post on this thread i know you all have plenty else to do. i will keep working on drying my soil and perhaps just replant with new substrate some day. here are the photos of this new plant i have in here, this seems to be the common thing, the base of the plants turn to mush and and just fall off, when i touch the end (havent touched the end of this one) it is super soft and mushy. the plant was not planted very deep either, but then again my fern behind it was a haphazard plant job.. that one isnt doing well either. ferns seem very hard to grow.. some day!

maybe a good remedy is to find some plants that do well in wet soil, can anyone recommend some good, smaller, low lying plants that do well in damper soil? 

i like this new little guy, i hope its just acclimating and bounces back.. got it from the garden store so if not, it was only a few bucks

again, thanks for the feedback ,hope to catch you all around in the forums!


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Most tropical plants should do well. You should also consider mounting your plants on the background.

Check out bare rooting here

This is a great method for mounting.

I mostly have pothos, bromeliads and pillow moss. My medium is sopping wet all the time but I've never lost a plant.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

You might be seeing a delayed response of crown rot from having your moss covering or touching the plant crowns. The rot in your picture of the peperomia is crown rot and generally caused from being planted to deeply or from leaf litter being up against the crown. Once plants are established this happens less often but still can on plants that do not vine or grow Arial roots. This kind of rot can be slow to show outward signs but once you see botrytis on leaves or stems cut the affected parts below the area cutting into healthy cells. When it is botrytis crown rot it is best to remove the entire affected plant as all botrytis is contagious if left in contact with another plant. In a viv a plant can look healthy because the humidity keeps the plant turgid making it appear healthy when in reality it could have been slowly battling the problem for months. I think you will be fine as long as you don't keep moss or other coverings close to sensitive species. And if you are ever in doubt about planting a plant always error on the side of not deep enough. The plant will root fine if you just set it on the soil surface as the humidity is high and the same happens if you leave a plant in the pot on open soil in your yard as well. As the old adage goes try and try again =) you'll get it just don't give up. =)


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## 781frogger (Aug 26, 2014)

had to google botrytis and crown rot, i think this is exactly what affected a couple other younger plants that i lost, such as my begonia. the leaves were slowly eaten away by a "blackness" and eventually turned to mush. 

i did have moss all in that front left area before, but had taken it out a couple months ago to help dry the soil. is that whole are now infected or something from the moss being there? would it be a good idea to just remove all of the moss, or to perhaps replace as much soil as i can? will that help or will the new soil get infected or whatever also?

i think you hit the nail on the head though, i will read up on this as much as i can! 

thank you very much planted tank guy, port, and especially Judy for not letting me give up so easily & keeping this thread active and getting my lazy self to post some pictures. you all have been a great help, i am new to the hobby and will keep trying to get better! 

matt
costa mesa,ca / boston,ma


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Well if you have new soil it won't hurt to replace it if it's easy but you could just dig the area where you are removing the sick plants. It generally is spread by the bacteria touching other plants but it is worse on stressed plants. As long as the moss isn't right up to the crowns it should be ok but toss any that was in contact with the rotting parts of the plants and keep your tools clean between cuts and your hands it isn't going to be a total loss just check the crowns of the plants and if they have some brown mushy spots you can try and remove the bad parts before it spreads to deep or toss and start again if they were easy to get cheap plants you can put some sulfur on the cut end as well (scrape it off matches if yiu don't have any) it's safe for the frogs and is an antibacterial and antifungal for plants and bulbs. 

One thing (I'm sorry if you mentioned this it's hard to look on taptalk) was this moss dry packaged pillow moss or similar? I just want to make sure you don't think that healthy growing moss will cause this as moss that is supposed to live on the soil that will grow over time is healthy even up against the crown as long as it grew there over time. Healthy actively growing moss has lots of antibacterial and anti fungal properties. When soil slowly builds up around trees and plants over time they can adapt and change their cells to being root cells or the plant will adjust itself with its roots. Bulbs do this noticeably all the time and it's amazing how the can move up and down in a pot (plants are amazing ). =)

One problem with moss that is commonly sold is that they don't tell you were it was collected. Many people buy moss from Oregon and it dies but we have moss that only grows on rocks, soil, tree trunks, tree limbs, dead or living. Some grow on many different surfaces but most are host specific and that causes them to die If the needs are not met. It is best to make small patches flat on the surface or doing the milled and paint method so the mosses that prefer that specific surface is the one that grows. That is why most good moss slurry mixes have multiple species. Here in Oregon if you look at a patch of ground 1sq foot it could have many different species of moss, liverworts and lichen all mixed. There and totally separate species that grow on the ground, up the trunk and even different species that grow on the limbs it's quite amazing if you get down and look at them closely lkke that. Sorry I got side tracked there a little bit lol.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Well said PTG--your explanation was much more thorough--bet the OP had to look up "turgid" and Ariel roots as well...lol. If it were me trying to get the plants a better chance to survive well...I'd take out all the substrate and bake it for a while...if reusing it made economical sense...the plants themselves could recover if planted in small pots in the slightly above substrate in a clean planting pot with a store bought plant mix then water slightly, put the entire plant into a gallon or quart sized freezer bag that seals, keep it in bright light until the plant recuperates...feed with a very much reduced organic liquid feed once or twice... Whatever parts of the plant that has already blackened should be cut off with a small pair of scissors dipped between cuts with the 10 percent bleach solution. All this is well worth it if you really like the plant that has been challenged, but easier to just get new plants which will be treated before planting in your tank with the recommended 10 percent cleansing dip, thorough-thorough- rinse...and planted. The whole plant should get this treatment...keep us posted and send pics when you achieve the look that you will eventually get. Remember--people usually learn more from mistakes than instant success...and any gardener will admit to having had LOTS of dead plants along the way..


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## 781frogger (Aug 26, 2014)

ya the mood moss was bought dried through amazon, came in a big bag for only a few bucks.. at some point i would love to try what people do with the "liquid" moss that actually grows... some day! i will take all your advice and hopefully save the plants , then again not a big deal only cost a few bucks at a local store. thanks again for your help, ill be sure to post some pictures in the future. look forward to seeing you all around the forums!!


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