# Southern Variabilis not breeding



## kennyb123 (Oct 20, 2019)

I purchased two variabilis southern last January and one has been calling from the first week of having them. Only one of the two has ever called so I know I have one male. Is there any way of confirming that the other one is female? It often responds to the calling of the other frog by joining it in the brom or wherever its calling from but I have never seen tads or even eggs - granted the placement of the brom makes it difficult to see inside it very well. A couple of months ago I added a petri dish under the coco hut and also added three film cannisters in various spots around the tank but still nothing - they only seemed to even notice one of the film cannisters. 

While on the topic I wanted to see how often people flush their film cannisters and petri dishes. They seem to get dirty pretty quickly either with flies or poop. I hesitate to be reaching in to clean them out regularly as my frogs are already really shy (since moving 3.5 months ago) and they seem to be even shyer whenever I rummage around in their tank.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

You could try to get a pic (top down is best) of the possible female to get opinions here. Shouldn't be too hard to tell at over a year old.

I flush cups and broms about once or twice a week, using a wash bottle sort of gently (tads swim to the bottom, but you don't want to injure them with a jet of water)


----------



## kennyb123 (Oct 20, 2019)

Here is a picture of the suspected female:


http://imgur.com/a/9vZ3fZg


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Socratic Monologue said:


> You could try to get a pic (top down is best) of the possible female to get opinions here. Shouldn't be too hard to tell at over a year old.


I'm still no good at eyeballing them unless they are super plump....but even then, I've been fooled. Pics can't hurt though!

If you can separate the two temporarily, I have found males will call usually within a day or two. If you have two males, usually only the dominant will call when together, so separating them will give the chance for the subdominant to try out his vocal cords! Even in single sex bins of 6-10 males, I find only one really calls.


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

kennyb123 said:


> Here is a picture of the suspected female:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/9vZ3fZg


Yikes, that is a big one! I'd say female from the photo, but preface my comment above. Doesn't look like it has missed many meals!


----------



## kennyb123 (Oct 20, 2019)

Chris S said:


> I'm still no good at eyeballing them unless they are super plump....but even then, I've been fooled. Pics can't hurt though!
> 
> If you can separate the two temporarily, I have found males will call usually within a day or two. If you have two males, usually only the dominant will call when together, so separating them will give the chance for the subdominant to try out his vocal cords! Even in single sex bins of 6-10 males, I find only one really calls.


Do you find that the dominant one is usually larger? If that’s the case this one is definitely bigger than the one that is currently calling so I would think if it is in fact another male it would be the dominant one. Thoughts?


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

kennyb123 said:


> Do you find that the dominant one is usually larger? If that’s the case this one is definitely bigger than the one that is currently calling so I would think if it is in fact another male it would be the dominant one. Thoughts?


No, not necessarily (but this does hold true sometimes), and I would say a lot of the time _the females are larger than the males_. Primarily in body girth, etc.


----------



## kennyb123 (Oct 20, 2019)

Chris S said:


> No, not necessarily (but this does hold true sometimes), and I would say a lot of the time _the females are larger than the males_. Primarily in body girth, etc.


Well if body girth plays in I should be good haha. We’ll see if anything changes over the next couple months.


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

kennyb123 said:


> Well if body girth plays in I should be good haha. We’ll see if anything changes over the next couple months.


Sometimes it just takes some time for them to get it right though. Calling and courting are good signs.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

That is a chunky specimen! They do seem to run even wider than most Ranitomeya, though. Just as an aside, I think I have 4 females, so if anyone wants to trade a female for a calling male, I would be super happy to do it. I would also buy a calling male. I am only basing my assumption of female on the fact that I have never gotten breeding or heard calling from the tank (that I know of - there are a lot of calls going on in my office and some are very quiet). Good luck on getting breeding to happen, OP!

Mark


----------



## kennyb123 (Oct 20, 2019)

UPDATE: As before I hear calling for hours, every day. The suspected female will often (but not always) follow the male to a petri dish under a cocohut, to three different film cannisters, as well as to a bromeliad. However I was still not getting any eggs. Then last night after hours calling and sitting together in a film cannister together I noticed there was clearly some irregularly shaped fluid/wet mass (not flat like water). So I pulled the film cannister out this morning and lo and behold: clear jelly... below are two pictures, I don't think they really show anything (it looks like water on camera) but I knew people would ask:



http://imgur.com/a/Dti8Ekw


I searched the board for what this possibly was and found a few different possibilities: The two most common answers were snail eating the eggs, and egg eating by competing females. I am about 99% sure I don't have snails and there is just a pair in this tank so that eliminates these two options. Another option I read was that this was just the sperm of the male, as even unfertilized eggs still have a white center (rather than just being clear). I made it through the first 7 pages in my search but it started being all unrelated information - a lot of posts about aquarium sales?

Just checking to see if this has been given a definitive answer. Thanks!


----------



## Mankc1 (Jul 11, 2019)

Nice looking frogs


----------

