# frightened newbies paludarium build



## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Hi everybody,

i am a beginner with no experience with tererriums, aquariums, paludariums, reptiles and frogs. I am amazed by some of your projects and decided to start mine. As i said i am not experienced in paludariums but have some serious experience with plants and ponds. So i hope i can use some of my skills in this project. I've used the title frightened newbie cause i ordered my parts without making a proper plan, actually i wasn't able to make a plan without seeing what i am going to use. While waiting for the material, i will start this thread and hope get some suggestions.

1 The tank: I am going to use a glass fish tank, which is 80cmx40cmx40cm (we use inches only for rims and screens in Europe. so i don't know how many inches it is). My first concern is the height, i am not sure if 40cm is going to be high enough.

2 3d background: I am going to use clay for the background cause i can't use foam. I can't touch them, sure can't cut them or even think about them. So i am going to make a rock looking background supported by bamboo sticks, will add layers and cracks and paint them with acrylic paint to make it look like real rocks. I will also add some pockets for the plants and holes for the waterfall effect. (i am good at sculpting, i hope it helps me here)

3 stones: This can be my biggest mistake. While i was choosing the parts, didn't think of the big picture and just ordered ohko stones between 22cm and 30cm. They are also called dragon stone. I don't know how am i supposed match the background since they have really difficult structure to imitate. We will see.

4 lights: I am going to use led grow lamps for the paludarium. They have enough light for the plants but if i don't like the effect, i can use a normal sun light. I bought them for my seedlings and don't use them anymore so that way they can be used. It has a pinkish purple like color.

5 filter and fogger: I have a cheap external filter for the water and also a fogger that produces fog with ultrasonic things  

6 air: I am going to put 75cm air hose and a small air pump. Aeration is good for the good bacteria and bacteria is good for keeping the water clean and the plants. I will hide it somewhere and make the bubbles less visible since it will break the waterfall and fog view.

7 plants: I've ordered a paludarium plants mix with seventeen sort of plants including two carnivorous and two mosses.

One of the biggest concerns: May the separated parts touch to water at the bottom do i have to put them above the water level since stagnant water will damage the roots. I have only 40cm and i think i have to fill at least 15cm with water in order to keep killfishes and bettas. If i put the soil above water, like 10 cm, i only have 15cm left.

Another big concern: Where can i buy those plastic grids and how is it called.

As soon as i start with the background, i will post the pictures here. I hope i don't botch. Thanks for reading.


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## zerelli (Sep 14, 2009)

2.54 cm = 1 inch

The grid is called egg crate here in the USA and is found at hardware stores near the ceiling tiles or the light diffusers.

I think you do not water that deep for bettas or kilis, a three inch depth is enough so like 10 cm of water. You have to make your false bottom as deep as the water feature to keep the plants from getting too wet.

Do not use the ultrasonic foggers.



flyingdragon said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> i am a beginner with no experience with tererriums, aquariums, paludariums, reptiles and frogs. I am amazed by some of your projects and decided to start mine. As i said i am not experienced in paludariums but have some serious experience with plants and ponds. So i hope i can use some of my skills in this project. I've used the title frightened newbie cause i ordered my parts without making a proper plan, actually i wasn't able to make a plan without seeing what i am going to use. While waiting for the material, i will start this thread and hope get some suggestions.
> 
> ...


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Search light diffuser. If you go to a hardware store ask for "light diffusers" not egg crate. 
Cool most ultrasonic froggers are safe...


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ghostkerbomb (Aug 2, 2015)

Silly question, but are you planning on having frogs in this build?

In my limited experience, when I want to build a paludarium, I want a legit paludarium. Sounds like you do too. And it sounds like you plan to have a water feature run down a wall as well. With a height of 40 cm you will likely be unhappy with how that bottlenecks or at least complicates your ambitions. Its definitely possible, but as your fear, when accounting for water height and allowed fluctuation levels, false bottom, substrate, and everything else, you lose height really quick and then its disappointing because there is so little room left to play with plants and stuff

Would you be interested in setting the tank up as to have the 80cm be your height? Its always an option.

There is a wealth of information on this site, have fun.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Ghostkerbomb said:


> Silly question, but are you planning on having frogs in this build?
> 
> In my limited experience, when I want to build a paludarium, I want a legit paludarium. Sounds like you do too. And it sounds like you plan to have a water feature run down a wall as well. With a height of 40 cm you will likely be unhappy with how that bottlenecks or at least complicates your ambitions. Its definitely possible, but as your fear, when accounting for water height and allowed fluctuation levels, false bottom, substrate, and everything else, you lose height really quick and then its disappointing because there is so little room left to play with plants and stuff
> 
> ...


Well, i will try to make a good mix of animals. Currently i am looking for dwarf caiman's and it seems difficult to get them as pet here in Belgium but i still have some hope. In case i get them, probably nothing else will be in the paludarium (maybe piranhas, i heard they can live together if fed firmly). If it gets too difficult to get them, i am going to have peaceful animals and a green tree frog will be one of them. I am little concerned about having dart frogs since they are poisonous and i have little kids (though i know they lose the toxins in captivity). I sure want to have some crabs and put my little turtles too. I'll focus on this once everything settles. Again, if i can get caimans, they definitely will need 80cm width. I don't know yet, but i may extend the height with some acrylate and put it at the top of the aquarium with black background (making a clay background 80cmx80cm is just too much and needs a sturdy structure). Thanks for your comments, i will see what i can do.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

@Zerelli and @Mohlerbear, i think both names are correct but hardware stores don't sell them here. The proper dutch name is stekkerrooster and mostly sold by marine aquarium shops. They charge 40€ (50$ i think) for a plate 120cmx60cm. Expensive stuff!


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

The plants are arrived two days ago and the fish tank and other materials are not 

The fish tank webshop claims to deliver the next day but after six day i still didn't get my stuff. The paludarium plant seller said i was going to get the plants at the ninth of this month but somehow it was delivered just two days. So one shop was extremely late with delivery while the other one was too quick. They work cooperatively to mess my paludarium plans. I've placed the water plants in my turtles tank cause they were drying extremely fast.

















I don't know these plants, still need to do some investigation to find out their needs.


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## zerelli (Sep 14, 2009)

I think you could greatly benefit from reading some care sheet and more information. I think you might be jumping in too fast. Your dart frogs will never have been toxic unless you are planning to get some smuggled in from the wild.



flyingdragon said:


> Well, i will try to make a good mix of animals. Currently i am looking for dwarf caiman's and it seems difficult to get them as pet here in Belgium but i still have some hope. In case i get them, probably nothing else will be in the paludarium (maybe piranhas, i heard they can live together if fed firmly). If it gets too difficult to get them, i am going to have peaceful animals and a green tree frog will be one of them. I am little concerned about having dart frogs since they are poisonous and i have little kids (though i know they lose the toxins in captivity). I sure want to have some crabs and put my little turtles too. I'll focus on this once everything settles. Again, if i can get caimans, they definitely will need 80cm width. I don't know yet, but i may extend the height with some acrylate and put it at the top of the aquarium with black background (making a clay background 80cmx80cm is just too much and needs a sturdy structure). Thanks for your comments, i will see what i can do.


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## MasterOogway (Mar 22, 2011)

Dude. Sloowwwww down. First, ditch the caiman. They're legitimately dangerous, and will get up to 4 feet long, minimum. We had a vet, a trained animal handler, get the last bit of his finger bitten off by a dwarf caiman. Second, it will eat everything else in there including, and your fingers, and wreck everything in there plant wise. That tank is *tiny* for an animal like that. We kept ours at the zoo in a probably 3.5-4m wide by about 5-6m deep inside enclosure, and then an outside that was twice to 3 times that. Those are big animals. I have a tank 3x that size, and it had 5 frogs in it, which was more than enough for a tank that size. Slow down, do your homework, and slow down.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Ok guys, i understand and will slow down and read more before taking decisions.
I am not going to put a caiman or piranhas in that for sure . Let's go back to the topic.

My aquarium is still not arrived. Tomorrow they will get an angry mail. In the mean time i've started to make the background out of clay. Still needs to be painted but i will wait for my ohko stones and try to match the color. The background is still curing, i think it needs one more day. It took me one hour to get it in this shape. To prevent unwanted cracks, i put regularly some water on the surface with a kitchen brush. The cracks you see are made by me with a knife and wont break up like natural cracks. I also opened some holes to put plants but i was little late to do that so the edges of the openings are little sluggish. It wont be visible after i put the plants in that.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

I've called them. They said i'm going to get them this friday. I'm planning to extend the height by 50cm with acrylic plates but i am not sure how it is going to look like. I'm sure there will be light difference between the top part and the bottom part but i don't know if it is going to disturb me. If you guys have any experience regarding mixed tanks please share your experience. I dont want to blow this project.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

can you explain what type of "clay" you are using? Is it a clay that you intend to "fire"? Have you totally discarded the Great Stuff/silicone option? 
Ed, a poster on DB for a very long time, has a successful clay background which is difficult to achieve without some thorough knowledge of what to expect...you may want to refer to his posts on that subject before you get too far along... Some people has beautiful vivariums with NO background--they can be just as appealing as the most complicated "Grimm" background...check out his posts, you will understand...Good luck...but consider first the animals, and create the environment they will be happy in.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Judy S said:


> can you explain what type of "clay" you are using? Is it a clay that you intend to "fire"? Have you totally discarded the Great Stuff/silicone option?
> Ed, a poster on DB for a very long time, has a successful clay background which is difficult to achieve without some thorough knowledge of what to expect...you may want to refer to his posts on that subject before you get too far along... Some people has beautiful vivariums with NO background--they can be just as appealing as the most complicated "Grimm" background...check out his posts, you will understand...Good luck...but consider first the animals, and create the environment they will be happy in.


This clay is called terracotta which is used for making roof tiles and pots. There is a rubber mesh in the clay to make the structure sturdy. I had to bake this clay but it was too large for my oven so left it to dry with air and keep the surface wet to prevent cracks. I've considered other options too but clay was the most comfortable option for me (i am familiar to work with clay). I am sure i want to have a background to add a waterfall effect. I think my background is ready to place in the vivarium after some paint work.

I can dispose this background and start another one with a coated iron mesh in it to make the edges of the hives more natural and maybe put some roots and wood pieces. My biggest concern is the height of the fish tank. The current tank is 40cm high. I am planning to adjust the height by using acrylic sheets. If it looks natural enough(light diffusion, condensation), i will make a bigger background. This one is just a quick try out.

The animals i am going to put in the vivarium are:

water:
4-5 small fishes such as neon tetras and dwarf gouramies (it depends on the size of the water)
maybe one male betta fish or two killifishes

amphibians:
my 2 turtles for sure
one or two climbing tree frogs
if the size of the water allows maybe few crabs

land:
a chameleon or two tiny climbing lizards, not sure about it

But they all will like the environment i am going to create (moisture, heat etc). The turtles are predators so that's why i will find some fast and climbing or strong and self defending species to keep the peace in my paludarium but need to study on this topic. I am not sure yet.


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## zerelli (Sep 14, 2009)

Most turtles will really enjoy eating those fish and crabs. Turtles will eat just about anything and will also chow down on your plants depending on the species. With the extending the tank height, make sure you use cell cast acrylic and not the stuff the hardware stores sell. Most of the plastic sheeting you see as a glass replacement will warp and or discolor.



flyingdragon said:


> This clay is called terracotta which is used for making roof tiles and pots. There is a rubber mesh in the clay to make the structure sturdy. I had to bake this clay but it was too large for my oven so left it to dry with air and keep the surface wet to prevent cracks. I've considered other options too but clay was the most comfortable option for me (i am familiar to work with clay). I am sure i want to have a background to add a waterfall effect. I think my background is ready to place in the vivarium after some paint work.
> 
> I can dispose this background and start another one with a coated iron mesh in it to make the edges of the hives more natural and maybe put some roots and wood pieces. My biggest concern is the height of the fish tank. The current tank is 40cm high. I am planning to adjust the height by using acrylic sheets. If it looks natural enough(light diffusion, condensation), i will make a bigger background. This one is just a quick try out.
> 
> ...


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

you may want to rethink some of your choices...turtles, although engaging...are really, really messy....Tree frogs, unlike dart frogs, are asleep during the day....it took me a couple of years to realize how much more fun it is to see the frogs DO something....It might help to go back to the drawing board to look at what you want to end up with. Had to chuckle about the "clay"--if you had used the term terra cotta, I would've known right away. There are threads here, and on other "frog" sites that use a clay that remains somewhat pliable for backgrounds...that was what I thought you meant...


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Turtles cannot catch fast and small fishes such as guppies and neon tetra's. Even if they catch occasionally a few, i'll add some more in the water. Regarding the plants, i don't mind they take some bites some times. It is just a fresh vitamin source for them and plants will grow fast enough to provide some bites. The crabs topic is kinda difficult. I need an aggressive and social crab that can defend itself but not too big so they cant hurt the turtles. The frog is another question since they are soft animals. Instead, i can go for an insect eating small lizard with hard skin. The turtle is the problem child but i can't build such a beautiful place and keep them outside of it, i kinda like them. They live in the small plastic thing you see in the previous pictures. I am still looking for acrylic pane connectors that don't require drilling. I try to avoid silicon work cause i don't have a single success story with silicon work in my life (same for soldering and painting).


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I also had crabs in my first paladarium...they'd climb the tubing from the pump and escape...turtles will uproot the plants, not just eat vegetation...


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## jprosser (Jan 9, 2015)

I think before you start to spend a lot of money, you need to understand what you want to do and the basic husbandry needed for the animals you are stating you want to keep.
Firstly what species of turtles are you keeping in the container in the photo? It looks tiny and is not suitable for any turtle in my opinion not even temporary for a hatchling.
Depending on the species, most turtles will get too large for the tank you are designing even if you fill the whole thing with water. They are opertunistic feeders and if they can grab it, they will. constantly chasing fish around until they get them. Im sure my turtles would go for anything that hits the water
Don't do a mixed species tank this is only for experienced keepers, it is unnecessary, maybe when you have been keeping for many more years you can give it a try.
Whatever you get, chose before you design the tank and make it around the needs for that animal, research is key to this hobby.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks for your comment @jprosser , i think i know what i want, an excellent paludarium and the money is spent. The tools and the materials will arrive friday, so i think i will add pictures of the finished paludarium build. The first weeks i will only put my turtles and wait for the flora to become stable. Meantime, i will think about the animal combinations. All i need is a good aggression/size balance and enough hiding places. (my turtles are yellow ear sliders)

btw @Judy S, i farm clay fishes in my pond for eating along with my salmon fishes. They are escape artists, it is true but they mostly just go to the next moisturized place and wait for you to put him back in the aquarium. So next time just put a dish with a wet sponge in and they will be waiting for you there. Don't worry about the vegetation, it will be ok. They are turtles not goats


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I don't understand your post...what are "clay fishes"? OH!! CRAYFISH!! I meant the little crabs that move sideways -- crayfish are like tiny lobsters...they are not much on climbing, unlike the crabs...


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## Ghostkerbomb (Aug 2, 2015)

This may earn me a few unfavorable opinions, but just sharing my experience with paludariums and turtles. I've kept a stinkpot musk turtle for about 15 years and she's been happy in a 20L. Horribly messy girl. Ate every tank mate I put in there. fish, crustaceans, and any plant that dropped below water level is devoured or destroyed (might be easier to be destructive in a smaller tank of course). But now that its been set up for years I haven't needed to do anything but top off water. I don't know anything about yellow ear sliders tho and your experience may be entirely different. Just more stories as to help with your expectations. 

Oh and in all fairness squirt's the only little one who stays in that small of tank. Even my boxie pair at an inch and a half get at least a 40


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Judy S said:


> I don't understand your post...what are "clay fishes"? OH!! CRAYFISH!! I meant the little crabs that move sideways -- crayfish are like tiny lobsters...they are not much on climbing, unlike the crabs...


Thanks, yeah that one, a.k.a. crawfish. They are like assassins (like in assassin creed), believe me. This is my crayfish pond; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHxmA85z4O8

@Ghostkerbomb i will put them in the paludarium and just wait for the vegetation to thrive. In the mean time, i will make another house for them. They live in one of my ponds in the summer with some big koi's (+50cm). Once the environment is ready, i will think what i want to put in the paludarium. Frogs are quiet expensive, not sure. Maybe i need to buy a couple and get obsessed by them. Sorry for being so not-obsessed-by-frogs (yet), i didn't realize that dendro is the family name.


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## jprosser (Jan 9, 2015)

I'm guessing you mean yellow bellied sliders.
These are much larger than musks, much better swimmers, hench much better at catching fish, females can get up to 13 inch...I'm sorry but that is just way too big for this tank. Males get up to 8 inch, which is still way too big. I would just use the tank you are setting up for turtles for now, get them a uvb fixture and a basking spot, it doesn't look like the tank they are currently in has either, then upgrade to a bigger tank when the turtles get too large.
Then think about modifying that viv for something else.
They are not goats but they are opertunistic feeders, and omnivores. If it's there, they will likely eat it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

leave my turtles alone


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## Ghostkerbomb (Aug 2, 2015)

There is no substitution for working with the materials and seeing what you can and cannot make work. OP is going to do what OP is going to do. I agree the size of the tank is too small for two full grown turtles measuring 8-13 inches. There are ways around that.

It could serve as a home until they outgrow the enclosure or the turtles growth may naturally become stunted by limited access to resources (not supporting, just saying). It may become a non issue. My first viv was set up for about 2 weeks before I realized how much I'd learned in that first experience, tore it down, and built another.

Just saw the size of the turtles. You're fine for awhile. They're too small and clumsy to eat everybody else. But you should be prepared for anything you add to be potential food tho. Chams are expensive and kinda fragile. I'd go with the climby lizards if you insist. Something like anoles. Cheap, diurnal, and replaceable. As for adding a frog to that mix, I don't know dude. Darts would die. Nothing big like a whites either.


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## Snake Judy (Apr 16, 2015)

As others have said, this enclosure size is much too small for anything besides frogs or a couple of small lizards (_definitely_ no chameleons). If you include a large water feature you limit yourself even more severely. And even with the "extended top" it really isn't even close to being large enough for more than one species, which is a super complicated endeavor even in the largest enclosures. Best advice: pick _one_ species you wanna keep now, research them very thoroughly, and design around the needs of the animal instead of the other way around.

Good luck.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks for your comments. Today, my aquarium and other stuff are delivered but the aquarium was broken. So i've called the seller and informed them about the situation. I also said that i can't wait ten more days cause my water plants are not doing well. I've considered your comments about the size and bought a bigger aquarium. The new one is 60 imperial gallons and will be delivered tomorrow at 11 o'clock. I don't have enough plants to fill my huge aquarium  so tomorrow i will buy more plants, water plants, carnivorous plants, mangroves and air plants. I will also clone some of my water plants. The background has to be something quick, so i will go for root background. Luckily i live in the woods. Basically, i will paste the dried root pieces and add some turf. Here are the last pictures:








The broken aquarium









Other stuff. Fogger, filter, hoses and ohko stones. I've ordered five kg ohko stones but it was only three pieces  i think i have to find some more stones to cover the sides of the island. I will use ohkos for the waterfall. I also have some drift woods collected from the north italy. When i came to the hotel with two bags full with drift wood, my wife didn't like it but i knew i could use them one day. Tomorrow i will add more pics.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

I am really impressed by the biodome project on kickstarter. Once the basic installation is ready, i will start to build a climate controller that can control the humidity and temperature. I will also add a camera to the controller in order to view the paludarium, start rain, fog, and control the food.

I was thinking of adding some insects in the paludarium for food. If i can provide some hiding places for hatchlings, they can just survive enough and provide continuous food source for the animals. I was able to do that for my quails but it alone was not enough as a food source. I've been watching some movies about farming crickets, still thinking about this topic. Fresh food contains vitamins and makes the animals stronger against diseases.


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## Ghostkerbomb (Aug 2, 2015)

GG dude. Sorry the other one broke. But I think everyone will be much happier with the 60. 

if you're talking about the Biopod I just saw it for the first time yesterday. Rather nifty indeed.


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## Ghostkerbomb (Aug 2, 2015)

oh and don't farm crickets. They smell and jump and are loud and you will begin thinking hell is the natural spawning point of cricket kind.

Isopods and aquatic snails might work better


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## Snake Judy (Apr 16, 2015)

flyingdragon said:


> I was thinking of adding some insects in the paludarium for food. If i can provide some hiding places for hatchlings, they can just survive enough and provide continuous food source for the animals. I was able to do that for my quails but it alone was not enough as a food source. I've been watching some movies about farming crickets, still thinking about this topic. Fresh food contains vitamins and makes the animals stronger against diseases.


Most people on here as well as others that use bioactive set-ups seed their enclosures with springtails and isopods, which serve the dual purpose of supplementing the diet of the animals (if they are insectivores) and cleaning the mold/fungi/waste etc. in the enclosure.

I would not consider culturing crickets directly in the enclosure. They're opportunistic creatures that will go after other inhabitants after they've finished eating all of your plants. Plus they're messy and they stink.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Ok next update. Today my new fish tank is delivered. I also bought silicon, foam panes, polyurethane foam spray and will start to make the background. I've also collected some dry roots from the woods. The picture below shows the basic plan. I am still thinking of some changes such as splitting the input of the filter in two and put them far from each other but it wont change my background plans. Everything (hoses cables) will go through one big channel at the middle of the background. I don't have the grid for the false bottom. i think i will use some expanded clay aggregates.

https://sketch.io/render/sketch566c44584134a.png


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Can someone tell me how many gallons do i have? I am confused. When i calculate it online, i get 70 gallons then i see people saying 120 gallon project and the tank is much smaller as mine. The dimensions are 180cmx30xmx60cm.

Another question, what is your suggestion for painting the polyurethane foam? I will try with acrylic but the surface seems to glossy for that. I've tried with a brush, maybe spraying it can give better results.

btw, i've started the foam background yesterday but my foam wasn't sufficient. So i had to do the half of the work today. Tomorrow i will cut it in three pieces with hot knife and seal it with sodium silicate. I think i need to cut some pieces.

Besides that, i've ordered one rgb led bar 100cm and a JBM controller. With that, i will simulate sunset, sunrise, moonlight and maybe a short thunderstorm. I've been also checking the rain simulators to support the thunderstorm effect and irrigate the flora but electronic valves are expensive. I have a simple idea for rain simulator, hope it will work but i will turn it on manually. I don't want to add a misting system since it is messy and unnatural.
















I have warm white leds for overall light density and the thunderstorm/cloud effect and a led driver that is capable for the leds.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

If my math is right it should be about 85 gallons, it seems about right but I make no promises


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## Ghostkerbomb (Aug 2, 2015)

For pretty much any application I use a serrated knife to cut that gloss skin off the foam and get it into shape(ish). 

Not a fan of painting so no recommendations there. I used tinted drylok in the past and was moderately happy with it. Prefer using natural stone and material when possible tho.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

@Ghostkerbomb thanks for the tip, it was incredibly easy to cut it with serrated knife. I cut some partswith the knife, opened plant containers and cur the decoration in three parts so i can put it in my tank. I've painted them with acrylic aquarium safe paint and tomorrow will seal it with sodium silicate which is also totally aquarium safe. After one day drying, it will be ready to go into the tank. my led controller and rgb lamp is also delivered. I've programmed it for the sunset and sunrise. I wasn't able to find the correct rgb values so i made something by myself. In the pictures it is in the moonlight mode. I would like to add some thunderstorm effects but this controller can be set by minutes. The next plan is adding strobe light with thunder effect and simulate the rain too.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

am curious about the sodium silicate....can you explain why that choice, and other details?


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Judy S said:


> am curious about the sodium silicate....can you explain why that choice, and other details?


The reason is, that is what everybody uses here for sealing aquarium decorations. We don't have the same products here as in the states. They sale graphic cards and printers in hardware stores in Europe.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

That product is also sold here in the U.S.--but I was interested in whether using it would be better than sealing with "Drylock"-- Do you incorporate acrylic colors into the product, as you can with Drylock, or is it just a sealer...does it eventually degrade?


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Judy S said:


> That product is also sold here in the U.S.--but I was interested in whether using it would be better than sealing with "Drylock"-- Do you incorporate acrylic colors into the product, as you can with Drylock, or is it just a sealer...does it eventually degrade?


Yeah, it is cheaper, better and won't degrade. It is also water soluble at the beginning. Once it is cured, you can only remove it mechanically. I compare with epoxy, don't know much about drylok.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

i am having troubles starting the external filter. My first filter was a chinese resun cy20. We've tried to make it work for all night but it didn't. Then, i bought a more expensive stronger filter. We still have no success making it work. Any tips?


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Ok guys, the paludarium is built. I've chosen not to use a false bottom but it was a wrong choice. I've used some plastic wire and filled them with gravels. Second mistake was those fancy aquarium gravels, they are too shiny. I should go for something more natural. I hope once the plants arr grown, it will look more natural. After fighting two days with the filter, everything works now. Here you get some photos of the finishes project. Currently the light is in trhe moonlight mode. I can reprogram is cause it is still too much light for the night. I've bunch of plants over there. Two turtles, four puffer fishes and four dwarf gouramis. I will add maybe two chameleons and few vampire crabs. I don't know it for sure, i will research it. Besides this, i saw today beautiful senegal birchs but appearently they would eat anything so didn't buy them. I will add more pictures at sunset and sunrise (simulated by my led controller).


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## Snake Judy (Apr 16, 2015)

That isn't a suitable enclosure for chameleons, like I already said. You will kill them pretty quickly. 

Please read through this whole thread a couple times before you put anything in there: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/173258-multispecies-reference-page.html


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Snake Judy said:


> That isn't a suitable enclosure for chameleons, like I already said. You will kill them pretty quickly.
> 
> Please read through this whole thread a couple times before you put anything in there: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/173258-multispecies-reference-page.html


This? "As others have said, this enclosure size is much too small for anything besides frogs or a couple of small lizards (definitely no chameleons)."

Oh, you've missed an update. The enclosure is three times larger now  . I've done the needed research and ordered the needed extra equipment for chameleons (misting system, heating lamp, ...). I will also add more branches for climbing.


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## Snake Judy (Apr 16, 2015)

No, I caught your update. The size isn't the only reason it's not suitable. Chameleons have really specific husbandry requirements and succumb to stress easily. What species are you looking at? Most are solitary creatures and will not do well in pairs or groups. The climate in the glass enclosure will be too humid - chams are typically kept in mesh enclosures that get a lot of air flow. In tanks they become susceptible to respiratory infections. Additionally you run a very high risk of the animal falling and drowning.

Again, please read the thread on multi-species enclosures and really think your choices through. You should be working with animals that will thrive in the environment you created, not ones that you think are cool but will only struggle and die after a few weeks/months of constant stress.


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Snake Judy said:


> No, I caught your update. The size isn't the only reason it's not suitable. Chameleons have really specific husbandry requirements and succumb to stress easily. What species are you looking at? Most are solitary creatures and will not do well in pairs or groups. The climate in the glass enclosure will be too humid - chams are typically kept in mesh enclosures that get a lot of air flow. In tanks they become susceptible to respiratory infections. Additionally you run a very high risk of the animal falling and drowning.
> 
> Again, please read the thread on multi-species enclosures and really think your choices through. You should be working with animals that will thrive in the environment you created, not ones that you think are cool but will only struggle and die after a few weeks/months of constant stress.


Well, that makes sense. I've been reading the thread you mentioned. I am actually not planning to put animals in the paludarium in the near future. The animals i am talking about are only some pre-ideas that need to be researched enough before actually putting them in the environment. Currently i am following the plants and make sure they have the correct environment. Thanks for the information.


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## Snake Judy (Apr 16, 2015)

flyingdragon said:


> Well, that makes sense. I've been reading the thread you mentioned. I am actually not planning to put animals in the paludarium in the near future. The animals i am talking about are only some pre-ideas that need to be researched enough before actually putting them in the environment. Currently i am following the plants and make sure they have the correct environment. Thanks for the information.


Awesome, glad to hear it. Keep us updated!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm back to your use of the sodium silicate....have you used it a lot? Are there a lot of people who use it...for the moist conditions of a viv? Can you explain it a bit more??


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## flyingdragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Judy S said:


> I'm back to your use of the sodium silicate....have you used it a lot? Are there a lot of people who use it...for the moist conditions of a viv? Can you explain it a bit more??


I've used one kg sodium silicate for my foam background which is 180cm x 60cm. It is like the most popular substance to make stuff waterproof but needs to cure at least 24 hours. It is totally aquarium safe but also water soluble that's why curing is important otherwise the waterproof layer will disappear. The moist is absolutely not an issue cause people use it even for aquarium decorations that are totally under water. It is also easy to use. I've prepared first a waterish sodium silicate (1 sodium silicate 9 water) for the first layer and put in the spray bottle. After few hours, i've prepared a ticker layer with half sodium silicate and half water (most people use 1 sodium silicate 2 water) and sprayed the second layer. After that i've washed my spray bottle cause if you are late, it will not be usable and water silicate can be removed only mechanically (not with heat or chemiccal compound). It is being used like centuries for clay kitchen pots and it makes me feel safe. Sodum silicate is extremely durable cause the sodium silicate granules go deep in the surface, much more than where moist can reach so it forms a very sturdy layer on the material and can't be scratched like epoxy. Besides that very cheap. I've paid 7$ for 1kg and i still have 1/3 of the bottle. So far, that's all i know. I will share my own experiences as the time goes.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

sounds better than canned beer... Thanks, will have to look into it...Epoxy is so expensive and can be tricky to use...I had tried to "line" a streambed with the epoxy and it just never worked....so you spray rather than "paint"...gotta try it...I crossed your thread about the silicone silicate to another current thread about a moldable type of Sacrete...but it still has to be submerged off and on for about a month to leach the lime out...


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