# new joshs media



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Update from later in the thread:


> My results/experience:
> 
> So the media is noticeably different, appearing not to have potato flakes. It apparently is a potato powder instead. It does not mix as esily as before and you may not want to have a fan running near it as it is very light.
> 
> ...


I hate to post this but Did anyone get any of joshs new style media? Are you having the same awful experience I am?

The stuff does not mix like it used to and it is very clumpy or extremely watery. It is also much lighter and powdery and you get as much in the cup as you do outside the cup or on the sides of it. I never had to follow instructions on making cultures before and even following the instructions it just doesn't mix right. 

Just trying to see if its just me or others have had same experience. The last bucket I had worked perfectly fine but these are clearly two different products.


----------



## gotham229 (Dec 30, 2006)

hey Greg,
Did u perhaps order the brewers yeast and thought it was the media? Has happened to a couple people I know. Take care


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

No. I ordered a five gallon bucket of media. I swear what they sent me doesn't have potato flakes in it though. They deny that over the phone and said this is how it should be.


----------



## gotham229 (Dec 30, 2006)

hmmm... is it a beige color powder? I order flakes from them about 3 weeks ago and its almost like a a flaky powder but off white color.


----------



## Totenkampf (Jun 25, 2012)

they use powdered potato instead of flakes, which means it ought to mix even more easily. i would be interested in hearing about this, i am trying different medias right now before i order in bulk


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I guess it is off white. It is like dust though, you dump it in fruit fly cup and get a poof of dust. It is nothing like the bucket I ordered in June. That one clearly had flakes and wasn't dust. Mixed just like it always had in the past. I got an awful response on the phone about this, basically leaving me hanging. Doesn't sit well with me when I make about 50 cultures a week. Can't really afford to not have media work, let alone spending $90 plus to get this. 

Has anyone ordered any from them recently and had this experience?


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Totenkampf said:


> they use powdered potato instead of flakes, which means it ought to mix even more easily. i would be interested in hearing about this, i am trying different medias right now before i order in bulk



I don't know what they used in June but what I got now in August is totally different. It does not mix easily at all. I never used to measure water, just added by eye. If it was a little wet, it still would harden for me. This has an extremely fine line. Too less water, clumpy mess. Too much water by the slightest amount, stuff drips out the cup. I also mix it with a butter knife and the clumps left on the knife after mixing is very excessive. Never had much on the knife when I got done before.


----------



## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

I use Joshs media and works great for me. I ordered mine a couple months back though, so things could have changed.


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Brian317 said:


> I use Joshs media and works great for me. I ordered mine a couple months back though, so things could have changed.



Yes as was mine a couple months ago. I am talking about a recent order. They said something about changing things over the phone....wish I knew ahead of time.


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I have the new media. Yes, it mixes differently, it isn't quite as easy to mix up as the old stuff. I've found that adding boiling hot water works best. Let the culture sit for a minute or two, then mix, then let sit and mix a little more. The consistency, is well, inconsistant. It looks kinda lumpy but after the culture starts producing, this is hardly noticable and really doesn't matter. These differences are less important to me though than the bottom line.

It still produces flys, about the same if not(subjectively) more, than the old style. I've had no drop off in production. When I noticed the difference in the new media compared to the old media, I made cultures side by side with the old style media, just in case. I've had no problems in production of flies at all over the course of about 2 months. I plan to keep doing this until I run out of old media.

If the media is too watery, you're adding too much water, add a little more media until you get the consistancy you want. Next time add less water. I've found that making the media to the same applesauce consistancy as the older media, requires just a small amount less water than before.

I should note, I've yet to open my bag of Hydei media. I don't know how it compares to the old Josh's hydei media. I've only used the new style with melos.


----------



## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

I noticed the difference right away.
The new stuff is a much finer powder.
I have mixed results so far so I'm not ready to complain just yet.
The main difference is I need to be more accurate with how much water to add.

Flies still produce but I haven't noticed any real 'booms'.


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Those are the responses I am looking for. So if it produces at least I won't be out of flies and in a huge jam. Rush ordering 50 cultures a week wouldn't be cheap. 

However, making cultures was a thoughtless, simple process for me.....not really into having to put "effort" into mixing and dealing with precise water measurements. 

I will say this is my first week with the new stuff so I can not comment on the difference in fly production. I really hope I get the same results as you Doug.


----------



## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

I just received my new media from Josh's frogs and I also was not pleased with the change. The new media simply put is terrible compared to their other media, I'm not sure why change something if it was working so well in the past. The new media is very difficult to mix properly and get smooth, I used boiling water and I have to stir it for what seems like 5 minutes a cup before it mixes completely with no dry sections. On the other hand New England Herpetoculture's new medium is amazing! No stirring necessary at all and it saturates very well. I won't even bother using all of my Josh's new media and will be switching to NEH stuff soon.


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I ordered a bucket from them too. Mixes so easily. Hoping for good production. Doing half and half to test out.

Just as a side....I used joshs melanogaster for both melanogaster and hydei....hydei produced great w that media so never bought both. Hoping same results from ne.


----------



## Totenkampf (Jun 25, 2012)

tachikoma said:


> On the other hand New England Herpetoculture's new medium is amazing! No stirring necessary at all and it saturates very well.


thats good to hear, i had been buying repashy from NEHerp but am trying some of their house brand since they are offering it in a trial 1/2 pound size for a penny. you cant beat that.


----------



## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

i posted about this a bit back in dart den forum. i really not crazy about it. does what you were saying clumps up and so fine it goes everywhere. i had better luck when i mixed it my old way. room remp water and then it mixed up better.i even followed directions and it messed up. 
also got the free sample from n.e. herp, didn't like it either. followed the directions, no luck. i did have a fellow frogger pm me he also wasn't crazy about the new josh mix.


----------



## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Greg
I make my own media and make it into a powder like you describe, maybe not as fine. What I have been doing the last couple years is not stirring/mixing. I add boiling water and make sure the top is always damp. There will be pockets of dry, but by the time the maggots are at numbers to need the dry pockets, they are no longer dry. I have found this is much better at keeping the media in the bottom of the cup as well. When I stirred it was more likely To have chunks topple out. Also, my cultures are less runny at the end because the juices get soaked up by the dry pockets. I have used this method with Josh's media as well as repashy.


----------



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

JeremyHuff said:


> Greg
> I make my own media and make it into a powder like you describe, maybe not as fine. What I have been doing the last couple years is not stirring/mixing. I add boiling water and make sure the top is always damp. There will be pockets of dry, but by the time the maggots are at numbers to need the dry pockets, they are no longer dry. I have found this is much better at keeping the media in the bottom of the cup as well. When I stirred it was more likely To have chunks topple out. Also, my cultures are less runny at the end because the juices get soaked up by the dry pockets. I have used this method with Josh's media as well as repashy.


Jeremy, i started doing what u just said, (i make my own also) and found that it made my cultures too dry over time to the point that mold was growing on top and my cultures crashed. I went back to stirring, and i havent had any problems.


----------



## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

Since they switched to the new powder mixture I have started adding either oatmeal or potato flakes to there mixture because not only is it more difficult to mix the powder but I also find that it dries out much much faster. I see absolutely zero difference in fly production using it straight out of the box or mixing it 50%josh / 50% potato flakes and/or oatmeal. When inquired about the new mix at first they said it had not changed and when I called back a month or so later they said they switched to the powder.


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Greg - easiest way to solve this ... put your water in your cup FIRST, then put the media.

I've done this for years - makes things much easier.

s


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Scott said:


> Greg - easiest way to solve this ... put your water in your cup FIRST, then put the media.
> 
> I've done this for years - makes things much easier.
> 
> s


I usually do water, media, water, stir. Unfortunately is very difficult with this new media. Mayne the potato flake suggestion may help.


----------



## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Jeremy, i started doing what u just said, (i make my own also) and found that it made my cultures too dry over time to the point that mold was growing on top and my cultures crashed. I went back to stirring, and i havent had any problems.


What's your recipe?


----------



## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

Scott said:


> Greg - easiest way to solve this ... put your water in your cup FIRST, then put the media.
> 
> I've done this for years - makes things much easier.
> 
> s


for what it is worth i have also done this. medium into the water.


----------



## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

mydumname said:


> I usually do water, media, water, stir. Unfortunately is very difficult with this new media. Maybe the potato flake suggestion may help.


i might be wrong but isn't it just powdered potato instead of flakes. i actually was told that it is supposed to be better powdered.


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Thanks to those that shared.

A couple of things...

1. For best results follow the instructions on the bag. 2/3 cup of BOILING water to 1/2 cup of media. Using cooler water or not measuring out the water and you won't get the same results. We do constant testing (we make 1320 cultures a week) and our instructions are based on the tests we do.

2. Our finer formula change was done after tests of almost 10,000 cultures here at Josh's Frogs.

3. We have stopped mixing the water when we make the cultures about 2 years ago. It works great in our high humidity environment (65%). But, we know in lower humidity environments the dry media can start to mold if not wet. Un-mixed cultures produce more flies. We believe this is due to the water content (on the wet sections) being higher and the parts of the media that remain dry don't break down until the culture gets soupy enough to wet those parts. Those that order our freshly started cultures may notice parts of the culture media is still dry. The key is to try and get as much of the top of the media wet so you have a dry section on the bottom.

4. Finally, keep in mind that the number 1 killer of fruit fly cultures is low humidity. Keep your cultures humid and you will have better results. The second most common killer is high temps. You never want your cultures to hit the mid 80s and if you are running your AC constantly, you have to watch that your humidity doesn't dip.

Our tests show more consistent results across a bag with the new potato powder and longer culture life. But, as has been noted by others in this post, not following the directions can lead to less than stellar results.


----------



## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

1320 cultures a week! 
You must have one employee whos only job is to make ff cultures.. Lol 

Thanks for the tips and exp!


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Thank you for posting. I have stirred the water and media together now since 2004. Never read not too. I will give it a shot.

Your instructions still say mix water and media.....I take mix to mean stir them, possibly cause that's how I've always done it. It lists water first then media but above it sounds like it should be reverse. I did attempt the instructions as I interpreted them.

Again, I will follow the instructions you gave above to see how it goes.

I didn't want to make this post but I knew I couldn't have been the only one having issues. I did attempt a phone call and the answers I received was not like the one above. So I consulted others here.


----------



## morg (Jul 28, 2012)

Glad I found this thread. I ordered a small bag last month and had the clumping issue. lumpy oatmeal/peanutbutter consistency...pain to stir. 
So, Josh is saying to just dump the mix into the boiling water, and dont stir? Ill try it.


----------



## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

mydumname said:


> Your instructions still say mix water and media.....I take mix to mean stir them


You're definitely not the only one to interpret it that way...

The instructions on my bag say:


> 1. Mix 2/3 of a cup of boiling RO or bottled water to 1/2 cup of media


However, I just now looked through the instructions on Josh's website and it says


> Step 3: Add 2/3 cup boiling water. We do not mix the water and media – the fruit fly larvae will do that for us!


So there is a bit of inconsistency there... which may have caused all this confusion.

I'm going to try not mixing when I make new cultures this coming week... We'll see how it turns out because I have definitely been having issues with my cultures dying out before using all the media. So much so that I started reducing the amount of media I put in each culture because I felt like I was wasting everything that the flies werent getting to.


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

The key is following the instructions on the AMOUNT of water. 2/3 cups of boiling water to 1/2 cup of media. In really cool and really hot weather your house humidity will either be lower (due to heating/cooling) or your house will become too hot/cold. So, adjusting water volume in those cases is prudent.

Greg, do you have pics of your cultures where you followed the directions using 2/3 cup of boiling water? Also, let me know how many days old they are.


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

carola1155,

The "not mixing the media" hasn't been put on the bag as mixing it won't hurt the culture and is easier because when you don't mix, you have to make sure the top of the media is wet. Flies won't lay on dry media. You want the dry part of the culture on the bottom of the cup. Simply telling people to mix the cultures is easier on the masses (we are now at over 30,000 pounds of media a year).


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I don't have pictures but I also mixed.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

am I the only one that is now confused?? Mix or not mix??? Boiling water on the bottom or the top???


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> am I the only one that is now confused?? Mix or not mix??? Boiling water on the bottom or the top???


Any combination of the above will work. We put the media in the cup first and then add the boiling water.



> I don't have pictures but I also mixed.


Pictures would really, really help me see if there are any problems with the cultures other than being harder to mix.

I have been getting messages about this post and I just want to clarify...the media was hard to mix, but you have yet to have any problems with the culture yet? I think people are thinking you are saying that you aren't getting production or there is a problem with the media.


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Clarification.....

This was my first week trying the new media. My bucket from june with the old style just ran out. I have used joshs mix for a long time and never questioned or complained about it. This new media was different and I was not having luck mixing it....using my method or the method instructed on the bucket. I called joshs and did not get much of an answer by whoever I spoke to....not josh or Zach. It made me nervous about production and all which led me to post here for others experiences. I figured I would not have been the only one to use it.

Now I see some new instructions from josh through this thread that I will be trying this weekend when I make more cultures. I have not used it long enough to have a culture produce yet as Tuesday was my first day using it. So this post was not me saying it does not produce in the end. I am really hoping I do not have an issue with production with this new style media. But I have not and can not comment on its production.

If I had spoken with you or someone on the phone who would have given me the above instructions, I would have tried them and not have posed this question to those who used it.

I hope this clarifies my experience so far and reason why I posed the question to others. I make too many cultures a week to not have a constant supply of flies and needed some answers.


----------



## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

I have been following this thread and I have never had a problem with Josh's media in two years of using it. Now let me be clear that I also use Superfly too. I too thought that you were supposed to mix the water and media. I did notice the change with the last batch of media that I bought from Josh's. It still mixes well for me. I also use bottle water for all of my cultures and use a little more than the 2/3 of cup required.

I took some pics of a new culture that I made today with not mixing and just making sure the entire top of the media is wet. Im curious to see if this works the same or better.










As you can see the top is wet and the bottom is dry.










I hope these pics help anyone try this method.


----------



## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

^I used to always mix as well.....hmm....I just made 2 hydei non mixing and they look like your photo.


----------



## nhaislip (Mar 28, 2010)

I'm usually a pretty quiet one on these forums because I usually find it unnecessary to be involved in disputes, but it seems like we are splitting unnecessary hairs here! 

Some are complaining over consistency and whether it is too powdery but it produces and it produces amazingly well. Even the original posts for this thread had nothing to do with whether the cultures produced or not once being made, which isn't that the important part?

I've used Josh's media for a couple of years now and my production right now with my newest batch couldn't be higher! I have done it both mixing and not mixing, following the directions and not, and never have I had any cultures fail unless they were just too wet and molded (Which is only my fault). I have tried every major production line fruit fly culture media with thousands of cultures made with each and have never had a media with more success as I do with this media. I think these guys are catching a bunch of unnecessary flack. 

Josh, keep doing what you guys are doing. It works well


----------



## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

I've used Josh's media for a long time, and am not happy with the change (way to dusty & messy to work with) have not noticed any benefit (as in more flies or longer life) hate to say it but am considering shopping for a different source especially after the last 5 gal bucket (thought my previous smaller foil bags were a fluke) just my 2 cents


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

nhaislip said:


> I'm usually a pretty quiet one on these forums because I usually find it unnecessary to be involved in disputes, but it seems like we are splitting unnecessary hairs here!
> 
> Some are complaining over consistency and whether it is too powdery but it produces and it produces amazingly well. Even the original posts for this thread had nothing to do with whether the cultures produced or not once being made, which isn't that the important part?
> 
> ...


You point out that my original post was not pertaining to my production with the media....well that was explained that I just used this media for the first time this week and have not had time to get production. Because this media was not the same as all of the other media I received from joshs, I came here to see what others experiences have been. So the way I phrased my original post was to get the answers that I did not receive when I made the phone call.

I too have used joshs for many years now and this was a new product to me when I was expecting the same as before. So pointing out how long you used it does not matter to me or anyone else looking for answers. What matters was everyones experience with the new media....not the old. 

I will await my results with this newfound information and hope that they are consistent with how they have been. I would not want to have to be in a jam for replacing a few weeks worth of cultures. Replacing 50 per week would not be cheap for me.

Again to keep the clarification....I did not have the cultures going long enough for production. Others here have. I have no issue with josh or joshs frogs and would love to be able to continue using the media. I just had to consult others because when I called I did not get an answer that satisfied my question.


----------



## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

nhaislip said:


> I'm usually a pretty quiet one on these forums because I usually find it unnecessary to be involved in disputes, but it seems like we are splitting unnecessary hairs here!
> 
> Some are complaining over consistency and whether it is too powdery but it produces and it produces amazingly well. Even the original posts for this thread had nothing to do with whether the cultures produced or not once being made, which isn't that the important part?


the original post was expressing concern over whether or not this new stuff was going to produce the way the old stuff did. If you read the thread and paid attention you would have seen that he was just concerned that the mixing results werent the same as the old formula. As we all know, if the media isnt mixed well the cultures have the potential to crash. This could be devastating to some people.



nhaislip said:


> I've used Josh's media for a couple of years now and my production right now with my newest batch couldn't be higher! I have done it both mixing and not mixing, following the directions and not, and never have I had any cultures fail unless they were just too wet and molded (Which is only my fault).


Congratulations... you are having good results. Im happy for you. However, as made obvious by some of the posts in this thread not everyone else is in the same boat as you. My stuff does not mix nearly as easily and I've had to go through a bit of an adjustment period. It was no big deal for me making 3 cultures a week... but for someone making 45 like the OP that could be an issue. Instead of basically assuming "it works for me, it should work for you" how bout you put yourself in other people's shoes first.



nhaislip said:


> I have tried every major production line fruit fly culture media with thousands of cultures made with each and have never had a media with more success as I do with this media. I think these guys are catching a bunch of unnecessary flack.
> 
> Josh, keep doing what you guys are doing. It works well


Nobody here is telling Josh that what he's doing isn't working. There was confusion over the new media and questions that people wanted answered. We're just trying to voice our experiences with a new product and ask for advice. You have to keep in mind that everyone is making their cultures in a different environment and (I think) its a well known fact that it takes a little trial and error to get the right method down with each media. Some people will need more water some people will need less, etc etc. 

A little more explanation in the beginning would have been nice and potentially avoided this whole thread. Just a simple note saying something like this would have been nice: "After lots of research we have improved our media. This has resulted in potentially different mixing results. We recommend that you follow the instructions precisely in order to get the best results." This way people may have stopped and gone "Ok, I need to make sure to measure this all out, etc" instead of "Ok, I have more media from Josh's, time to make it the same way I always do"


----------



## morg (Jul 28, 2012)

The dry-bottom no-stir works as long as the cultures are kept with relatively high humidity. I found my first attempts with 2/3 cup boiled RO wouldn't suffice in my desert environment. Once I started keeping them in sterilite boxes with humidity guages, no problems.


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Lot of extra effort.....never had to do all that before. Hoping I still don't.


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Greg - I don't want to wander too far in to VF territory here - but the stuff works great for me.

Takes me 3, 4 minutes top, to prepare 3 or 4 cultures a week.

No issues at all. Period. None.

s


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I tried the not mixing....water on top today so I will see how that goes.

I just can't imagine having to go buy containers to keep cultures in. Just not an expense I ever had to do. Plus more things to open. Im going to continue placing these on my shelves.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

People who cook know that a smooth consistency will occur if the dry ingredient is placed on top of the liquid...so the not mixing may work better if done in this order...I'm experimenting today with four different methods...


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

My results/experience:

So the media is noticeably different, appearing not to have potato flakes. It apparently is a potato powder instead. It does not mix as esily as before and you may not want to have a fan running near it as it is very light.

Onto the good part. I have now used it for a good 50 plus cultures starting back on August 21. I stated seeing a large amount of larvae in he culture which in turn resulted in a large amount of flies. 

I am very happy with the results, nervous at first, but I am pleased. I do not want the old media back. I am much happier with my fly production now then I was throghout the summer with the older bucket I had. As a bonus, I may be able to start cutting back on the quantity of cultures I am producing. 

I really don't want this thread continuing but felt I should at least give my results since I asked others (now that I have had cultures going long enough to see how they produce).


----------



## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

Update

I started adding 2/3 as hot out of the tap first, then 1/2 cup media, then a little more water to wet the top layer. No mixing at all was needed. Worked like a charm.


----------



## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I'm assumeing that is without mixing?

I think this was a good thread given the product changed. Should I mix it, or just add water then just dump the media on it? I would say media, then water, but that don't seem logical. 

I'm a noob, and just started makeing my cultures. I am currently mixing them together. But I'm waiting for the final verdict on the water then media (without mixing), turn out. 

Thanks for posting this thread. It's good to know if something has changed, and how their experiance has changed. 

If Josh's payed more attention to your question, then you wouldn't have posted this. But there would be a few more people calling asking the same question. So, you prolly did them a favor. For the company, and for the rest of us. This wasn't a question about whether it is a good product.


----------



## dperrucc (Sep 5, 2006)

Also having problems with Josh's media,first time in three years I have 3out of 6 containers producing no flies.Might be due to hot summer but never had problem before..


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> Also having problems with Josh's media,first time in three years I have 3out of 6 containers producing no flies.Might be due to hot summer but never had problem before..


Can you post pictures and give dates for when you made the cultures? Also, let me know if you are culturing Hydei or Melanogaster.


----------



## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

I've been feeding and reseeding this week with the first cultures I started with the new technique.

MUCH better production than I was getting. Seems as though that technique is the way to go when using this new stuff. 

I just pour the boiling water into the media and take a butter knife to stir up the top ~3/4 inch or so. this way there is no dry media sitting on top. I am not mixing everything together like I use to. It makes the top part VERY soupy at first but when you let it sit to cool down it firms up.

Here is a culture made yesterday:








As you can see the top part has been mixed and the bottom part is still dry. The flies will get to it eventually and it will get mixed up by the larvae.


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> I think this was a good thread given the product changed. Should I mix it, or just add water then just dump the media on it? I would say media, then water, but that don't seem logical.


The only change was the consistency of the mash potatoes. This changed mixing "feel" and actually results in better production as the person who started this thread has commented. Most people are reporting the same thing our tests showed: Increased production and more moisture retention.

Here we add media (1/2 cup) and then BOILING water (2/3 cups) and don't mix. Here is an old blog with photos of how we do the over 1300 cultures we make each week:

Josh's Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » Josh’s Frogs Fruit Fly Overview



> If Josh's payed more attention to your question, then you wouldn't have posted this. But there would be a few more people calling asking the same question. So, you prolly did them a favor. For the company, and for the rest of us. This wasn't a question about whether it is a good product.


Of the over 1500 bags of media we shipped before the original poster called in (change made in June after months of testing here and customer ordered in August), we had had very, very few asking about the change in consistency. Our calls regarding production issues did not spike either compared to this time last year (summer temperatures are problematic for fruit fly cultures as they need to be kept below 85 degrees and not everyone has central air, so we do get calls about cultures not producing).


----------



## Capitol City Frog Farm (Jul 11, 2011)

Same experience, convinced myself to make my own. Much cheaper.


----------



## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

Using the "don't mix" method seems to help.
I think the temps were a bit high this summer which may not have helped but now I'm seeing great results.


----------



## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

No problems here. I use the suggested amount of media and pour the suggested amount of boiling RO water on top without mixing. Cultures have been booming.


----------



## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

joshsfrogs said:


> Here we add media (1/2 cup) and then BOILING water (2/3 cups) and don't mix. Here is an old blog with photos of how we do the over 1300 cultures we make each week:
> 
> Josh's Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » Josh’s Frogs Fruit Fly Overview


After I sent my original post I did see the small letters saying "Add 2/3 cup boiling water. We do not mix the water and media – the fruit fly larvae will do that for us!" I thank you very much for clarifying that for me. I did make 2 cultures without mixing, a week ago, and today I have started seeing maggots. So, horray!

But in my defence:
(1) the bag says "MIX 2/3 cup of boiling RO or Bottled water to 1/2 cup of media". Keyword "MIX" not "ADD and don't MIX"
The reason it didn't seem logical to add the media then water, which is off subject. Is cause if you mix some protien shakes with the powder first then water, you will play hell trying to get the bottom to mix. I know it don't justify why I thought of it that way and possibly makes me look stupid.

(2) if you click the link on your website HOW TO CULTURE FRUIT FLIES 



 and fast forward to 3:06 you will see Josh with a spoon (I wonder what he is doing with it).

So by those 2 references I would assume to "MIX" it. 



joshsfrogs said:


> Of the over 1500 bags of media we shipped before the original poster called in (change made in June after months of testing here and customer ordered in August), we had had very, very few asking about the change in consistency. Our calls regarding production issues did not spike either compared to this time last year (summer temperatures are problematic for fruit fly cultures as they need to be kept below 85 degrees and not everyone has central air, so we do get calls about cultures not producing).


The original post was about consistency. If you mix one, and don't mix the other. You will see a difference in the consistency. So I think my comment was ok. Plus it seems that some other people were confused. 
Thanks for the info of the 85 degrees.


----------



## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

I finally opened one of the new bags and agree 100% with the below. I was not happy at all with the new powder mix.. Must be cheaper for them or something. I hope Josh's switches back. Any word from them? What other mixes do you like? I want to try something else now.

Thanks




tachikoma said:


> I just received my new media from Josh's frogs and I also was not pleased with the change. The new media simply put is terrible compared to their other media, I'm not sure why change something if it was working so well in the past. The new media is very difficult to mix properly and get smooth, I used boiling water and I have to stir it for what seems like 5 minutes a cup before it mixes completely with no dry sections. On the other hand New England Herpetoculture's new medium is amazing! No stirring necessary at all and it saturates very well. I won't even bother using all of my Josh's new media and will be switching to NEH stuff soon.


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> I hope Josh's switches back. Any word from them?


Steverd,

I'm so sorry to hear that you aren't happy with the way the media looks/acts/feels. Give it a try and reserve judgement until you see how it produces.

I have commented over the course of this thread, but please go to the original post that started this thread. After using the media, this person believes it is better now than our original formula. We won't be switching back to flakes due to a few reasons:

1. Potato Powder produces much higher yields.
2. Potato Powder allows a much more even mix.
3. Potato Powder holds more moisture longer (so cultures last longer).

The potato powder is in fact more expensive per pound than the flakes and is more dense (so it is doubly more expensive).

Here is the updated first post to this thread from the person who started this thread:



> My results/experience:
> 
> So the media is noticeably different, appearing not to have potato flakes. It apparently is a potato powder instead. It does not mix as esily as before and you may not want to have a fan running near it as it is very light.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tony83 (Nov 11, 2012)

Is anyone having mold troubles? I've made two batches and have lost a good number of cultures to mold forming. Ambient humidity is in the 70% range and temps are 70-72*. Media was made according to the instructions on the bag. The mold forms 3-5 days after it's made.


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Can you post a picture of the mold and/or describe it (i.e. color and location)?

What ratio of water to media are you using?


----------



## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Are u using excelsior? Try nuking newly made culture with excelsior in it before adding ff


----------



## Tony83 (Nov 11, 2012)

joshsfrogs said:


> Can you post a picture of the mold and/or describe it (i.e. color and location)?
> 
> What ratio of water to media are you using?


I will grab a photo when I get home it is white/grey and forms a 'crust' on top of the media. I am mixing the media per the instructions, 1/2c media to 2/3c of boiling water.


----------



## Tony83 (Nov 11, 2012)

dtfleming said:


> Are u using excelsior? Try nuking newly made culture with excelsior in it before adding ff


Yes I am. To be clear, add the media and excelsior and the microwave the whole concoction?


----------



## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Yea, I believe Josh's will reply but they have changed their instructions for mixing the media. I would try misting the cultures after they are setup. How long before the mold starts?


----------



## Tony83 (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks Don. It formed 3-5 days after I set them up. I mixed it according to the label on the bag. I'll wait for Josh's to respond with any other advice.


----------



## Tony83 (Nov 11, 2012)

Here's a photo.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Have you considered that it may be due to a yeast overgrowth?? 

Ed


----------



## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

Hey everyone...

I'll start by saying...

The new stuff is harder to mix at first, but I've found an easy way to do it!

1/4 cup boiling water, then 1/3 cup media, followed by 1/4 cup boiling water. Mist any dry spots left over, and let it sit until cool. NO MIXING.
*I'VE HAD NO ISSUES WITH THIS METHOD AT ALL*, and I've gone through about 15 lbs of it now.

This product has also out done their old formula, as well as 3 other medias in tests that trials I have performed. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/west/89685-anyone-near-eugene-need-ff.html

Tommy


----------



## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Yes - it does work, But I still don't like it was well. The worse part is that you almost have to wear a mask from all of the dusk/powder in the air every time I scoop some out. Who wants Potato Powder on everything in their frog room? Still not a fan - sorry Josh.




joshsfrogs said:


> Steverd,
> 
> I'm so sorry to hear that you aren't happy with the way the media looks/acts/feels. Give it a try and reserve judgement until you see how it produces.
> 
> ...


----------



## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Sure looks like that!! I never add ANY yeast to my FF cultures. 
I use the yeast taped on the bags to feed my Springtails with.



Ed said:


> Have you considered that it may be due to a yeast overgrowth??
> 
> Ed


----------



## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

I use yeast in my cultures, with zero problems. Only need to use a couple of grains of yeast.


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Don't need to use it at all as it comes in on the Fruitflies bitsy feetsies.

s


dtfleming said:


> I use yeast in my cultures, with zero problems. Only need to use a couple of grains of yeast.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Steverd said:


> Sure looks like that!! I never add ANY yeast to my FF cultures.
> I use the yeast taped on the bags to feed my Springtails with.


Doesn't rule it out... One of the things that can happen in enviroments where yeast is frequently used is that it contaminents the area and can seed into the medias (this is one of the ways people develope sourdough starters). 

Ed


----------



## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

I've been converted  I used to hate the new mix (I'm not good with change for any thing) but after switching from the foil bags it comes in for small amounts(I didn't like the change from plastic jugs to foil pouches either) they made a horrible mess what with dust and the pouches not wanting to reseal and it not mixing the same as the old formula ( change again ? !! ) I got a 5 gal bucket and things were much better dust wise & the lid reseals perfectly every time ! and after a while I didn't give a darn if the mix was lumpier than the old formula, as the ff's didn't seem to give a hoot ( I suppose everything tastes good when you are on death row  ) & my production is very good, so I stand corrected on my previously posted dislike of the new mix (but I still hate the pouches  ) And as for the yeast discussion, I have always made a weak sugar water with a pinch of yeast solution and added about a teaspoon or two to every culture I've ever made. I was taught this by Devin Edmonds who introduced me to frogs & in my world if Devin says it, so let it be written, so let it be done ! I might add that I have never had to buy meleno's since getting my first culture from Devon years ago.


----------



## Tony83 (Nov 11, 2012)

Just wanted to add that my mold or yeast growth problem is not present anymore. I started by making the mix a bit wetter and also seed the culture with more flies. I think a combination of these two things made the difference. I like the production of the new media. The only thing I don't like is the dust.


----------



## koldshot (Jan 21, 2010)

I dont mix at all, just pour in boiling water, I got that tip from Josh who said its way to time consuming for his employee( I'd love to be in the bar when they are explaining their profession, lol) to mix. Only takes a few times to get the water right, or just add a little more once dry if bottom is still powder. I use Repashy media. I started with a few too light on the media and they would crumble, so about 4tablespoons of media works just fine now.


----------

