# Frog Drowning



## hp192 (Feb 28, 2016)

It's tough to write about a frog loss that I feel may be partly my fault...so if you're going to be accusatory, please be gentle. A little background..pretty experienced dart owner here with a number of tanks including a couple paludariums. 

I had thought about writing on here about a Golden Dart I had that was showing considerably stunted growth compared to his brothers and sisters, but read enough previous posts about stunted growth that I didn't feel another thread would be helpful. The Dart in question was probably a third of the size of his siblings (by a year of age) and actually appeared to have stopped growing. His appetite seemed fine and I separated him from the others into his own enclosure as soon as the size difference became apparent. He kinda attracted the attention of the other human members of the household and became affectionately known as 'Jr.' Just for the record, I NEVER name the frogs, but I made an exception in this case for the sake of family peace. 

We finally decided to turn one of my 75 gallon aquariums into a paludarium for Jr. I made it an 'Island' style paludarium with a rather large land mass and plenty of locations for 'Jr.' to climb out. Sad ending to the story is that after three weeks in the tank, 'Jr.' was discovered floating in the water, deceased. The tears have finally stopped flowing from the distraught household members but I'm a little tortured by the fact that he died. Just curious if anyone else here has lost any frogs in paludariums? No idea why this little guy was so stunted (I didn't raise the tadpoles...they were purchased as a group). Any thoughts, comments or experiences? Thanks.


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## Xylem (Jan 10, 2015)

I don't even have a frog yet, but I'm already terrified of this happening when I eventually build a paludarium!!

I'm sorry for your loss.


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## wimvanvelzen (Nov 1, 2008)

Sorry for losing a frog - it is always sad, esp. given good care and love.

Given the circumstances our frogs live in the wild, I would be very surprised if frogs die of drowning in our small tanks. They are quite able to swim small distances and get out of the water vertically along glass etc (as a long time paludarium keeper I witnessed quite some remarkable things in that regard).

So drowning is not a probable cause. But dying frogs (for whatever reason) can die while being in the water or even look for water to die in.


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## Lukehartung99 (Aug 27, 2016)

I had leopard frogs I raised from tads, one was stunted and he had the cutest little face and he randomly died while the others did well. Perhaps he had a defect like mine and happened to be in the water during the incident. 


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

I think drowning is very very rarely the cause of death. I have owned several different species of frogs / toads over the years and have not had a single one that couldn't swim. Dart frogs especially should have no problem as they can climb out of almost anything if they are healthy. Sicks frogs often soak in water and so if a frog is really sick it might go to water to soak and end up dying leading to the idea that it is a common occurrence for darts to drown.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

What species was your "Golden Dart"? Do you have any pictures of the enclosure?


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## hp192 (Feb 28, 2016)

I appreciate all the responses. I suspected that drowning was highly unlikely. Golden Dart = P. Terribilis.


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## hp192 (Feb 28, 2016)

I'll try to take a pic of the enclosure. Might take me a bit to figure out how to post pics.


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

If it was a healthy frog that drowned in a water feature it would def be the first time I've seen someone admit to this on this website.


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## hp192 (Feb 28, 2016)

I don't have a pic handy but this my Azurius tank and is similar in land/water area to the tank that P.terribilis was in.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

hp192 said:


> I don't have a pic handy but this my Azurius tank and is similar in land/water area to the tank that P.terribilis was in.


That is a lot of deep water, and limited usable horizontal space for a dart frog vivarium. Phyllobates in particular are poor swimmers due to their fuller body shape, and slender digits with almost zero webbing. I would say that your vivarium design could definitely have contributed to the drowning.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I think Dane is on the right track. P. terribilis are not a species that does well in that vertical of a tank as they aren't good climbers and that inability to climb well can be very problematic for the frogs. I would suggest a total redo of the enclosure and eliminating the vertical wall (azureus should also have a lot more land as they are largely terrestrial). 

One of the reasons it's hard to determine why a frog dies in the water is because too few people get their animals necropsied and the speed at which decomposition occurs. Frogs that are having issues are known to soak and this is often why a dead frog can be found in the water but without the necropsy a lot of this is just speculation. 

some comments 

Ed


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## flyfanatic14 (Jun 15, 2016)

I think paludariums are cool and all, buy why stick a primarily terrestrial animal and strand him on a tropical island in the middle of a lake? Having said that, I would think that your frog may have died from other causes, but with the land/water ratio in the tank he probably had better odds of dying in the water rather than on land. I really am sorry for your loss but please try to think about which animals(mainly aquatic) really belong in those types of tanks.


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