# couple of cool animals....



## Ben E

im not sure on the anole....it was from ecuador...ive got some other stuff after these...


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## Scott

Cool animals Ben. I've seen that phyllomedusine (P lemur?) before (in Brian's book I think) so I know it is not as emaciated as it seems.

s


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## markpulawski

*Cool Items*

Ben what frog is that 3rd pic (that's the kind of cryptic look that makes you say "what's so great about a red frog")? No Sylvaticus photos?
mark


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## Ben E

I knew i could count on you to appreciate that animal!!! of all the things i saw in ecuador that was the animal that really did it for me. It is Eluetherodactylus appendiculatus from the cloud forests of northern ecuador. Direct developer and about the size of a male auratus...every individual had a completely unique color and pattern.....the tree frog is actually a hyla...Hyla picturata and that was a shot of a male that was just collected (yes that is what they look like) and they are big (females nearly 4 inches snout vent)...so you want sylvaticus?....here you go and a few others...


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## Scott

Should've known that... the eyes are all wrong for a phyllomedusine.

Is that an E zaparo? Fat little sucker.

s


Ben E said:


> ...the tree frog is actually a hyla...Hyla picturata and that was a shot of a male that was just collected (yes that is what they look like) and they are big (females nearly 4 inches snout vent)...so you want sylvaticus?....here you go and a few others...


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## markpulawski

*cool stuff*

What a great breeding project that Eleutherodactylus would make, what were the temps where it occured? Reminds me of the "Holy Grail"....Darwin's Frog (Hey Dante Fenolio after 6 years I am beginning to believe you won't live up to your end of the trade we made....can I get my Lehmanni back?)


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## MPepper

wow, those are some great pics. That eleutherodactylus is amazing...the sylvaticus isnt bad either 

Scott I'm thinking bilinguis, on the epip. but thats about the nicest pic of one I have seen.

Ben, any pics of any ventri type frogs?

again, great pics, thanks for sharing.

mark


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## bgexotics

I love the lemur frogs. Is anyone breeding these? You see all of these really neat tree frog species in the books and in posters but rarely if ever see them available in the US. Do they not do well in captivity or is there not enough interest?


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## Scott

I had thought possibly parvulus (sp?)... but it seemed very close to the zaps I've got (except for the *extreme* roundness).

s :? 


MPepper said:


> ... Scott I'm thinking bilinguis, on the epip. but thats about the nicest pic of one I have seen.


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## Ben E

no ventri pics...sorry...im kicking myself for not taking them now...saw yellow ventris and deullmani...here is one that looks more like lemur, but it isnt  the Epip is bilinguis here is another one for you....oh the Eleuth is from about 1200 meters or so...so not too warm...i think it would be doable in a terrarium, just might need a few gadgets to keep the temps down...


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## MPepper

Ben,

can you describe the ecuadorian duellmanni? i am familiar with the duellmanni from tamshiyacu region of peru, im wondering how the ecuadorian ones compare.

No pics of the duellmanni or the ventris, that is a shame  

thanks,
mark


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## Ben E

Hi mark, i found a picture that is a pretty good match to what i saw....very reminiscent of a retic except striped back, kinda like how retic metamorphs look right before they fully colo...

http://uk.geocities.com/craspedopus/fro ... tidae.html

on that same page look at the bilinguis from Pindo.....drool......

does anyone have any guess on the bolitoglossa? It was from the choco same area as the orange sylvaticus.....


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## markpulawski

*cool stuff*

Bilinguis from Pindo is an amazing looking Epip, funny how a subtle change with some added yellow can make an animal that much more attractive. It would nice to see about 20 to see if they are all like that or is that the nicest one they found to photograph. That green Vent is amazing as well.
Mark


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## markpulawski

*cool stuff*

Hey Mark I understand there is an interesting morph of Duelmanni just outside of Sarnia.


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## MPepper

thanks for the link Ben, interesting pics. so what is the basis for the separation of ventri/amazonicus/duellmani anyways, i thought with duellmani it was yellow later stripes, amazonicus from the whitesand forest regions of iquitos, so how the does this red one from equador fit in?

im going to have to try and look up some of the papers at the university library in lima in a few weeks but until then can anyone clear up the foggyness for me. In my opinion that red duelmanni looks more like a ventri, but i say this without knowing anything of its habits in the wild. do you remember what the ventral colouration was like Ben?

yeah that green ventri was cool, as were all those bilinguis and parvulus.

Mark, i must have overlooked the sarnia duellmani, i'll have to look harder next time Im there.


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## fishy332003

so,is any E.Biliguis available in US?


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## EricM

Those photos are great, thanks for sharing them here. 

Both bilinguis and parvulus seem to lose some of the color intensity in cb generations, they don't glow as they're wc counterparts, especially the flashmark colors. My Bilinguis are smaller than my zaparos, the male is not much larger than some female thumbnails I have. The line I have was collected in Columbia some years ago and the sized of the flashmarks is very small in comparison to other locales.

Also zaparo look very much like femoralis from the side profile. I haven't been able to view much behavior in them as they are incredibly shy and don't move much if I'm present. The fems are much less skiddish. Both species have been grouped into Allobates recently so I'm interested to see similarities in behavoir here.

I do have groups of vents/amazonicus and shortly duellmani going and one of the most exciting things is going to be the similarities/differences of behavior in these groups. The Christman books have provided some inspiration for more details on the relationship of all these "vent" group frogs. I also wish I could translate the cladograms in Rainer's book to see how he relates the Epipes.

THe duellmani I will be working with are the orange and yellow ones that Mark mentioned .

Just some thoughts
ERic


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## Shockfrog

Ben, great shots you made!

I think the E. bilinguis (pindo) pic on the website aswell as the pic you shot are actually E. macero. The flashmarks ->dorsolateral stripe that stops halfway the back aswell as the yellow reaching till under his eye. 

Where exactly did you find these? Any ventral shots?

If you have any other nice epip pics to share, I'd love to see them

Remco


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## MPepper

Remco,

the pics do share a close resemblance to the few pics i have seen on macero, especially the one from pindo. I thought however macero was restricted to a few locales in south eastern peru, while these pics were shot in ecuador. You seem to know your epips, what can you say about macero, i know little about this one other than its one i hope to photograph someday. Whatever these frogs are they are incredible.

take care,
mark


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## EricM

The photos of E. macero that I've seen show slightly differant markings than the pindo frog on this thread. The macero has very granulated red dorsum but it does not travel as far back as the pindo frog. Also on the side macero has two yellow stripes, one under the eye to the base of the forearm, the other from the ear down to the area where the flashmark would be on the hind leg. There is black between the stripes. The ventrum is a blue/ black reticulated pattern. There are no cream or whitish areas on macero like we see on the pindo frog. The photographer I spoke to reported macero to be rather large Epipes, more like trivs than bilinguis. I can't say that I'm the expert just throwing in my 2 cents from what little info on macero I've been able to find out. It would be interesting to get opinions from Rainer and Louis Coloma on this photo.

Thanks 
ERic


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## andersonii85

Thanks for sharing those amazing photos!!!

Anyway, I was wondering if you have any more photos of that Bolitoglossa? 

It looks similar to Bolitoglossa mombachoensis or even striatula... I have no clue really. Time to consult the library. 

Justin


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## Shockfrog

@EricM
i have to agree the markings are slightly different but I do think these slight differences are nothing but normal. You will encounter such small differences in any species. Especially if this frog from Ecuador is actually macero it would more than likely differ from the peruvian ones. A bit odd that the frog isn't really known from any other locations in between the Peruvian and this Ecuadorian locale. Maybe there are none. Maybe they will be found once. Or maybe it's not macero at all.
There's really no way to tell,.. Genetic research may someday tell.

If anyone can compare the calls that would be great, but you'll have to have sonograms for both this frog and macero. Now who has these?? Nobody here I guess...

I guess it's yet another frog we just have to love without knowing for sure.

Remco


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## jbeetle

Just like everyone else, I just wanted to say thanks for sharing these excellent photos!


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## ETwomey

Regarding the duellmani:
Ecuadorian duellmani are characterized by their lack of yellow coloration on their side. These frogs range from around Yasuni National Park in Ecuador to Iquitos in northern Peru. This isn't published yet, but this morph of duellmani is actually extremely closely related to reticulatus, the only difference being size (slightly bigger) and color (solid stripes). You can actually find reticulatus populations in the wild with the solid black stripes that are virtually indistinguishable from the duellmani. Incidentally, this morph is the nominal morph. The duellmani with the yellow sides (Tamshiyacu-Tahuayo), although superficially similar to the Ecuadorian duellmani, is actually not a close relative at all according to recent phylogenies. It is currently being redescribed as a new species.

Evan


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## ETwomey

As for the Epipedobates, I think you guys are spot on with bilinguis. As far as I know, it is the only bright red Epipedobates that you are likely to find in Ecuador (if that is where it is from). It could also be parvulus, although in all the pictures I have seen of this species the frogs are more of a dull brick red. E. macero is indeed restricted to the Manu area about 1000 miles to the south in Peru, and has a yellow dorsolateral stripe which terminates at about the front armpit. 

Evan


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