# Orchid keiki question



## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

I have a question for you orchid fanciers out there.
I put a Pleurothallis allenii in my viv about a month ago. The plant seems to be doing well, but it is starting to form 3 different keikis. Is this a good thing or is it a sign that it is stressed out.
I would ask the grower, but he is on the orchid show circuit this month.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

my allenii does this all the time, but it flowers all the time as well.
Seems that with mine, after each leaf has flowered 2 or 3 times, it puts out a keiki. I have gotten 4 or 5 off one plant since I got it. 
How are you growing it? cool I hope. Moist all the time as well medium light, if leaves get a purplish tint around the edge its maxed out for its light preferences
Be happy, now you have more orchids.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Andy's website said 55-85 degrees max. I keep mine between 70-75 degrees, pretty moist with high humidity. It's about 15" below 4-24 watt T5 bulbs, but is partially shaded by a couple broms. 

Thanks for your help. I was hoping that this was normal and not a result of being stressed.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

orchids aern't cheap, be happy you're gettiing a few for free. Mine was in bloom for 7 months straight up until about a month ago. Now its putting out a ton of new growth


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

I was just reading on the orchid board that some of the Pleurothallids will keiki and not flower when the light levels are too low. I have no idea if this is true or not. My allenii is doing neither at the moment.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Mine seems to only keiki when each leaf is flowered out. Was blooming and making keikis at the same time for a while. Now that I have used all the keikis for other projects, I wish it was still making them


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

OK, so how long do should I wait before removing the keikis and how do I go about cutting them off?


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

frogparty said:


> How are you growing it? cool I hope.


Why cool?


Andy's Orchids - Orchid Species - Pleurothallis - allenii

This source, IOSPE PHOTOS, also suggests that warm to cool (intermediate) conditions will suit P allenii well, as it's from relatively low elevations. Plus there are a number of people growing it in warm tanks, which seems to support the idea that the plant is not solely cool growing. I bet nighttime temp drops would help though, but in many areas of the US even in a greenhouse that isn't always possible, yet this plant is widely grown. 

Mike


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Mine do 2x as well when grown in the mid 60's to low 70's day . Temps in the tank its in(pre frogs) were dropping into the high 50's at night and it was blooming like never before. If yours blooms for 7 months straight in warmer temps let me know.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

On a related note, this plant seems to be tolerant of fairly stagnant air, as there is no air circ where I am growing it, in a sealed tank, and constant high humidity. One of my favorite orchids for sure.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

frogparty said:


> Mine do 2x as well when grown in the mid 60's to low 70's day . Temps in the tank its in(pre frogs) were dropping into the high 50's at night and it was blooming like never before. If yours blooms for 7 months straight in warmer temps let me know.


My allenii came in from Hawaii, where they must have been growing it cool somehow, because it was heavily in bloom. The blooming didn't last long, but I attribute that to the shock of being shipped and the cold temps it must have experienced (it was Dec or Jan). Will let you know when the blooming resumes. 

There is a greenhouse in my town that started carrying this same plant in the fall, when temps in the greenhouse started dropping in the winter, the allenii stopped blooming. Could be the natural decrease of light in the winter though too.



frogparty said:


> On a related note, this plant seems to be tolerant of fairly stagnant air, as there is no air circ where I am growing it, in a sealed tank, and constant high humidity. One of my favorite orchids for sure.


I agree that it doesn't seem to need the most airy conditions. However, how do you keep a tank at 50s-70s when keeping darts and 'cool favoring' orchids together for an optimally grown orchid and healthy frogs? Some orchids won't bloom much in a frog tank, because the conditions aren't ideal - sure, but that's why I always go with those that are supposed to be warm-growing and have attractive foliage - if they don't bloom much, it doesn't bother me!  As long as they live and grow alright, I'm ok if they don't all bloom.

Sorry for the hijack! On a side note, I think keikis are a nice surprise! 

Mike


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Now that there are frogs in there its at 70 nights to up to 77 days. Blooming hasn't stopped at higher temps, but def. not 7 continuous blooming months like before. It is putting out a ton of new growths, though, so hopefully they will all bloom at the same time. On a better note, with the slightly warmr temps the restrepia brachypus is cranking out the bllooms now, as opposed to sporadic blooming before. In the room the viv is in, I have to have a heat pad under the tank to keep temps from dropping too low at night in the winter. Ive got draculas in there too as they also like the cooler temps. Frogs seem to like this low to mid 70's range, so the cool growing orchids work out well. I just can't grow them in my leuc tank in the livingroom where temps get mid to upper 80's for short periods in the summer, these orchids really seem to take a downward dive with temps that high


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## crw.dft (Oct 14, 2008)

Sorry, but I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to orchids, but whats a keiki, and do any of you have any pics of this orchid? It sounds very interesting, and I do like orchids.


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

A keiki is what some orchids produce as a means of reproduction. They are basically miniature versions of the plant that normally develop from flower bud locations. They can be removed from the parent plant once they develop enough roots and started as a new plant. There are also hormones used to encourage keiki production. Many Pleurothallids produce them and so do Phalanopsis but I'm sure others do as well.

The picture here shows one on a Phal

Easy Orchids - Keiki Propagation


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

you can buy a product called keiki gro to treat flower spikes with that turn latent bud sites into keikis.Just a way to clone plants for propagation on a small scale, cheaper than meristem cloning, but not good for mass production. My phals have never keiki'd for me, although I hear its a common occurrence,  but dendrobiums do it a lot for me, and the pleurothallis are reliable producers too. Sometimes keiki formation can be a sign of less than optimal conditions, I think someone mentioned this already, but when the plants are growing and blooming as well I just looka t it as a bonus.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

The individual flowers onthe allenii never last long for me, 2 weeks max, but the leaves can reblooma bunch of times in a row, and new growths are quick to bloom if happy. I can extend bloom lenght by a few extra days out of vivs by using botanicare bloom on them @5 ml/gal but I don't fertilize when frogs are present, even though it's organic. 
Most pleurothallids don't seem to hold their flowers for very long, though, Im used to things like my cattleyas or paphs holding individual blooms for 6 weeks or more
The allenii flowers are also extremely intolerant of humidity drops. Had one in a growout tank, blooming well in 80 pct humidity. Took it out for a couple hours and all the flowers started closing up and drooping on me. Put it back in the tank and they recovered a bit, but dropped shortly thereafter


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## 0823angeles (Feb 13, 2009)

Budding new keiki's is great and there's no stress on orchids that do bud. Keep in mind as well that you dont have to wait for roots to seperate them just make sure they have enough of a base where you can seperate. Good luck

-Angeles


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah, but they usually establish faster if you wait for some root development on the keikis. Especially with thinner leaved orchids. With phals and dendrobiums I think what you said holds more true, but pleuros are a lot touchier


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## crw.dft (Oct 14, 2008)

Thanks all. It seems like I have a small orchid(no clue what it is) that is doing something similar, except this one kind of seems like the original plant isn't doing as well but the new growth is really taking off.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

This thread got a little off topic and I never got my follow-up question answered.

One of my keikis now has 3 leaves and many roots. Is there a way to remove it from the leaf or do you have to sacrifice the whole leaf to plant the keiki?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

There will be a little area where the keiki is attatched to the mother plant. Use a STERILIZED blade or scissors and remove it, roots, leaves and all. You should, with just a little looking, find this little area, the actual attatchment point is rather small, and will cut through easily. 
Hope this helps


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Thank you. Now I just have to figure out how to get a clear line of vision with my hands and a blade in a heavily planted 20 gal tank.


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## crw.dft (Oct 14, 2008)

phender said:


> This thread got a little off topic and I never got my follow-up question answered.


Sorry, my bad. I know I played a part in the hijack. Oops


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