# Phase Praise



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Just another little bit about Phase 22 packs. 
I was shipping several more shipments of bugs/microfauna. We did it with a returnable deposit so that using several Phase 22 packs is affordable for the customer. I'm just going to concentrate on the most difficult one here. 
This particular box was going 2 day priority from Colorado (80's and 90's), into El Paso, Texas. They were shipping into 105 degree weather. We thought it would be prudent to use HOLD AT LOCATION to avoid some of this heat. Unfortunately, USPS didn't bother to read their label and left the bugs in the 105 degree weather, in the full sun! When my customer got home to find them there, He found the package to be cool inside with all the bugs active. The four Phase 22 gel packs were still about 75 percent solid. That means the package was probably a cool and comfortable 71 to 72 F inside. The fact that they were 75 percent solid means they may have been able to go another day or more on that 105 degree sun without any problems!
In my humble opinion, anybody shipping frogs owes it to themselves, their customers, and mostly, their frogs, to use Phase 22 packs. It is an insurance policy that you can't afford to be without! Note: The phase change packs made by competitors, Saf-T-Pak PCM packs are similar in makeup and will give you the same peace of mind that "Phase Shippers" enjoy. When I ship...I sleep at night!


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Doug,

The Phase 22 gel packs you used, were those the Cryopak 6oz pouches?

I'm shipping some bugs out next week and this will be the first time I'm shipping them using the Cryopak 6oz pouches.

Thanks.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I can confirm this as I was the recipiant of said package of bugs. I was ready to be disappointed when I opened that box but all the bugs were moving around well. I don't know for a fact when that box was delivered, but my mailcarrier almost always drops off my mail by 10am, and definitely by noon. I'm curious to see how long those packs would last in a well insulated box. Do I just freeze these packs Doug? I'd like to do a little experiment this weekend and place the packs in your box with the three now empty bug cups out on my back porch in the sun. Our temperatures are slated to be 105-107 this weekend. We'll see how long they last. I could even take pictures every few hours.

Gary, yes, the packs Doug shipped with my bugs were Cryopak.

I just wanted to add, anyone recieving frogs USPS, owes it to themself to go to your Hold at Pick location and talk to the postmaster their and make sure that you carrier knows you have a hold for pickup package. I have some extra FF cultures coming and when I inquired as to why this package got delivered when it shouldn't have been the postmaster was able to leave a message for my specific mail carrier to be alert for this new incomming package also "Hold for Pickup".


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

gary1218 said:


> Doug,
> 
> The Phase 22 gel packs you used, were those the Cryopak 6oz pouches?
> 
> ...


Yes Gary. I am using Cryopak 6 oz packs. Experimenting with 3 and 4 packs now, when temps look high. I used to ship with just one pack. To cover the cost I would charge $3 extra. That almost covered the cost of one pack (including shipping for the initial purchase). Now I charge a $15 returnable deposit. This allows me to use 4 Phase 22 packs even though it's "just bugs". Now my customers can return the 4 packs to me, which costs them approximately $5.00 and I refund their $15. 
So in the end, it adds $5.00 to the price of shipping, BUT...no more dead bugs!! I've only lost one shipment of bugs to temps, myself, but have read many posts about receiving dead bugs, especially Dwarf Whites. 
Of course, I expect some of my customers will choose to keep the Phase packs for their next shipment of frogs going out and that is just fine. I'll buy a new set out of the deposit and we are all happy.
I do still use an insulated box, but I'm able to get away with a cheapy. I use an 8" x 8" x 6 or 8" box with "cut and assembled" 1/2" to 5/8" styrofoam insulation.
As the packs are still quite solid after 2 days in the heat, I anticipate it could sit another 24 hours or more in the heat!



ZookeeperDoug said:


> I'm curious to see how long those packs would last in a well insulated box. Do I just freeze these packs Doug? I'd like to do a little experiment this weekend and place the packs in your box with the three now empty bug cups out on my back porch in the sun. Our temperatures are slated to be 105-107 this weekend. We'll see how long they last. I could even take pictures every few hours.


While they _*could*_ be frozen you would not want to for this test. Freezing would kill the bugs too. I refrigerate them, and then pull them out for about 15 minutes before packing. I like them between about 50 or 60 F which is comfy for the bugs. For frogs I would start them closer to 60 F. The neat thing about these is that they are NOT an ice pack, nor a heat pack. You start them in solid phase for shipping in hot weather and start them in liquid phase for shipping in cold weather. Then, they basically absorb the extra heat or cold and chemically nullify it somehow. Because they are generally used at a starting temperature of between 60 to 80 F, you can use a MUCH smaller box than has been used in the past, AND you can have the packs touching the frogs containers with no problems. Of course the smaller box brings the price of shipping down for my customers, too. How does FedEx overnight for $50 sound?


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

Hy Guys,
I've been using the saf-t-temp gelpack PCM's for over a year now ,thanks to Gary's introduction .I was using the 1000gm but now use the 500gm, and did my first intentional two day ship with them to Pa. last week successful !
Found also the 20$ deposit usually actually never has been claimed ,guess those gel-pacs are to coveted lol!!!Lastly if you use If you use USPS Express "Hold for pick up" there is a different label for that 9althuogh not all locations have them) !!!


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Pumilo said:


> Yes Gary. I am using Cryopak 6 oz packs. Experimenting with 3 and 4 packs now, when temps look high. I used to ship with just one pack. To cover the cost I would charge $3 extra. That almost covered the cost of one pack (including shipping for the initial purchase). Now I charge a $15 returnable deposit. This allows me to use 4 Phase 22 packs even though it's "just bugs". Now my customers can return the 4 packs to me, which costs them approximately $5.00 and I refund their $15.
> So in the end, it adds $5.00 to the price of shipping, BUT...no more dead bugs!! I've only lost one shipment of bugs to temps, myself, but have read many posts about receiving dead bugs, especially Dwarf Whites.
> Of course, I expect some of my customers will choose to keep the Phase packs for their next shipment of frogs going out and that is just fine. I'll buy a new set out of the deposit and we are all happy.
> I do still use an insulated box, but I'm able to get away with a cheapy. I use an 8" x 8" x 6 or 8" box with "cut and assembled" 1/2" to 5/8" styrofoam insulation.
> As the packs are still quite solid after 2 days in the heat, I anticipate it could sit another 24 hours or more in the heat!


Good info Doug. THANKS!!!

I'm actually thinking of doing something similar. One of the heavy duty Saf-T-Pak 1000gm gel packs that I use fits into one of the PO's $4.95 flat rate boxes. I've been thinking about shipping my bugs using one of those in the box. It gives even more protection than 4 or 5 of the Cryopaks. And only cost the customer $5 to ship it back. It's kind of either pay me $5 up front to include 2 of the Cryopaks or pay $5 to return the heavy duty PCM gel pack to me which better protects the bugs.

I'm just about ready to start shipping more cultures of bugs so I'll probably try both methods and see how they work out.

Are you ready yet for your culture of purple bugs


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

How much do these Saf-T-Pak PCMs cost? (looking at their website right now)
Do you have to buy them directly from the company?

The TCP company gave me a quote for the PCM gel packs of $89/case of 48....which is not bad but if the Saf-T-Pak PCMs are just as good and cheaper I'm all for saving customers and myself money.


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

Paul,
The safttemp 1000gm case is with shipping 90.00 for eight.The 500gm case is 110.00 with shipping for sixteen--the deal with them is the web site has a minimum 100.00 order and that does not include shipping.You have to call the 800# to get around that (Maryland facility )I'm going to check out the TCP site.The safttemp packs have way more heft then the cryos.But the cryos may be a better value!I've never had any of the safttemp gel packs returned despite the 20.00 deposit-but like Doug said I'll just use the twenty to replace them!


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks Allyn. TCP Cryos sound like a much better value. 48 to a case vs 8 or 16 to a case.



Allyn Loring said:


> Paul,
> The safttemp 1000gm case is with shipping 90.00 for eight.The 500gm case is 110.00 with shipping for sixteen--the deal with them is the web site has a minimum 100.00 order and that does not include shipping.You have to call the 800# to get around that (Maryland facility )I'm going to check out the TCP site.The safttemp packs have way more heft then the cryos.But the cryos may be a better value!I've never had any of the safttemp gel packs returned despite the 20.00 deposit-but like Doug said I'll just use the twenty to replace them!


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Paul G said:


> Thanks Allyn. TCP Cryos sound like a much better value. 48 to a case vs 8 or 16 to a case.


You can't make that comparison. It would take several of the Cryopaks to be the equivalent of one of the 1000gm Saf-T-Pak gel packs. The Cryopaks weigh 8 oz, the 1000gm Saf-T-Pak gel packs weigh close to 2 lbs.

Having said that, each has their use in the hobby. I think the Cryopaks should work out great for shipping bugs, and the Saf-T-Paks for shipping frogs.

But of course, that's just my 2 cents worth


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey Gary, having experience with both brands, do you think that your big Saf-T-Paks work longer/better simply because of the size? So an equivalent amount of Phase 22's would do the same job? Or do you feel the material/chemical itself is somehow better? 
Second, anybody looked into Cryopaks new shipping boxes that are composed of Phase 22 panels? Expensive but intriguing.


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

Gary I wonder if we could angle safttemp for a commission!!They have asked me to explain to them how these are being used in our App.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Allyn Loring said:


> Gary I wonder if we could angle safttemp for a commission!!They have asked me to explain to them how these are being used in our App.


That's kind of funny. Maybe they could hire us as consultants


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Pumilo said:


> Hey Gary, having experience with both brands, do you think that your big Saf-T-Paks work longer/better simply because of the size? So an equivalent amount of Phase 22's would do the same job? Or do you feel the material/chemical itself is somehow better?


That's a good question. 

I certainly think the size and mass of the Saf-T-Paks has a lot to do with it. But the Saf-T-Paks also use a different kind of material/chemical. They never go completely liquid. It's almost like a gel foam material. When they're warm you can bend them and shape them to conform to the shipping box you're using. Not sure if the different material/chemical is better than what the Cryopaks use.

Haven't done any testing to compare several Cryopaks to one Saf-T-pak. So sorry, I don't have a good answer.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

gary1218 said:


> That's a good question.
> 
> I certainly think the size and mass of the Saf-T-Paks has a lot to do with it. But the Saf-T-Paks also use a different kind of material/chemical. They never go completely liquid. It's almost like a gel foam material. When they're warm you can bend them and shape them to conform to the shipping box you're using. Not sure if the different material/chemical is better than what the Cryopaks use.
> 
> Haven't done any testing to compare several Cryopaks to one Saf-T-pak. So sorry, I don't have a good answer.


Slacker!


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## RentaPig311 (Jul 6, 2009)

Where does one get these packs? I'm getting some frogs shipped from New York to Texas and both myself and the seller are new to shipping. Also is there a brand of insulated boxes or do you just go get some pink foam insulation and line a normal box?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

RentaPig311 said:


> Where does one get these packs? I'm getting some frogs shipped from New York to Texas and both myself and the seller are new to shipping. Also is there a brand of insulated boxes or do you just go get some pink foam insulation and line a normal box?


The manufacturer requires a full box of 48 to be purchased. Sounds like you just want to get maybe 2 to 4 of them for one shipment. Best bet there is probably Ron at Alpha Pro Breeders.
If you use styrofoam sheets, make sure you have a good tight fit. You could also tape the seams. I find that with a few Phase 22 packs, and some snug fitting styrofoam sheets, I have wonderful results.


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## newfrogger (Jun 20, 2011)

If your looking for some shipping cold packs I have some we get when insulin is shipped to us 

Foam Bricks

I have had insulin come in on thursday, (remove the insulin) leave the packs in the cooler and monday still be chilled. I started bringing home the extras and line the cooler when we camp they work great. I probally throw out 20 a week depending on how much insulin we get. Let me know if anyone has any interest in them. We also throw out all the nice styrofoam shipping containers to.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I received a question about how to "activate" these Phase 22 paks. Here is the answer I PM'd him.
Yeah, they confused me at first too. In the winter, you need to warm your frogs, so you warm the pak. In Summer, you need to cool them, so you cool the pak. Just remember that it is chemical, so you don't get them hot, just slightly warm. So in winter, slightly warmed to maybe 75 to 82 F. I don't like my frogs any warmer than about 80 so your pak shouldn't be warmer than that either. 
In Summer, refrigerate them BUT you wouldn't keep your frogs in the fridge so pull your paks out and throw them on the counter for 15 or 20 minutes before packing up your frogs.
So in winter packing, the pak will be fully liquified and will slowly solidify. When fully solid, it is out of "energy" and no longer does anything.
In summer packing it starts as fully solid and when fully liquified, it is out of "energy" and ceases to function.
In either example, pak will quickly equalize to 71 or 72 F which just happens to be perfect for frogs or bugs.
You still need insulation or the temp changes will deplete the pak too fast. In extreme weather, you will need more packs to handle the temps thrown at it.
Remember, these Phase 22 paks are infinitely reusable until such time at the post office smashes your return box completely flat, popping every pack within!! Yes, they really did that!


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