# Help with R. Summersi Sexing



## WhyteLocust (Jul 4, 2012)

Hi Everyone,
I picked up a group of four Summersi from UE in December and so far I have no idea what the gender make up of the group is. I have yet to hear any calling or find any eggs. It would be great if I could get some opinions on what sex each of them might be.
These pictures are from back in February when they would be at least 8 months old. I tried to get at least two different angles on each to make it a bit easier.

Thanks in advance!


#1

















#2

















#3

















#4


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

Do you have any pics of them together to compare? I can't say for sure but I'd say #2 is a male and numbers 3 and 4 are female, but that is just by body shape which is influenced by feeding. Female summersi are often really big thumbs.


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## WhyteLocust (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't have any pics of #3 for comparison but I do have #1 to #2 and #4 to #2.
My guess based off body shape during my second photo shoot with them (#1 buried itself in a brom the first time around) was that #1 and #2 are male and #3 and #4 are female.
The pics of #3 and #4 are all from the first session and while I was documenting their patterns after the second session (they are incredibly difficult to tell apart at a glance I find), I had noticed that both of them looked far bigger than they appeared in their photos.

Behaviour wise, I notice #4 following #2 around pretty much whenever I see them lately. They are usually within a couple of inches of each other when I manage to locate them. All four of them generally spend their nights in a large Neoregelia pauciflora I've got in there.
I've tried playing the summersi call found on dendrobates.org but it seems really distorted or amplified somehow and usually sends them scurrying away.

#4 & #2

















#1 & #2
















(This one's not that great for comparison; I just liked the angle)


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

looks like 1 male the rest female? Just my guess


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

actually they could be all female. If kept together sometime 1 or 2 females can be stressed and not eat as much and have the appearence of a male.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

Tricolor said:


> actually they could be all female. If kept together sometime 1 or 2 females can be stressed and not eat as much and have the appearence of a male.


Possibly but if 4 is always following 2 I'd say that there is at least one male. I still say 2 is male and 4 is female


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## WhyteLocust (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys!



Tricolor said:


> actually they could be all female. If kept together sometime 1 or 2 females can be stressed and not eat as much and have the appearence of a male.


That is something I had considered. Hopefully I'm not misinterpreting aggression/bullying for the potential courting behaviour. I've never actually noticed any outright aggression with this group.

I've been thinking of possibly splitting the group up temporarily to try to reduce any stress caused by the group dynamic. Any thoughts on if that would be a good thing or potentially harmful in the long run?


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## jruffing46 (Jul 10, 2008)

First off, great looking frogs! I cant wait to get some in June from UE. Now for your question. I will agree with Tricolor on this one in that #2 is either a male or a bullied female. Others look like females to me. How old are the frogs now?


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

their call is extreme low, so i doubt you will hear it, on top of that they can be very finicky to get them breeding, but ounce they do, they will breed on a a regular basis. just be patient and let them do their thing.


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## WhyteLocust (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks! UE says that they only ship out Ranitomeya species when nearly full grown and somehow I got in my head that that was around the 6 month old mark (this comes from when I got my Vents; Elaine said they were at least 6 months old at the time). I'm guessing that would make them 11 months old now.

They are great frogs... when you get to see them. For me they are always under the leaf litter. Their tank isn't as well planted as I would like since they were sort of a "rush" purchase back in November. I had been slowly putting together a tank for them for a spring/summer purchase but UE had a good sale on for them so I ramped up my timeline.

I'll hopefully be fixing the light planting sometime this week, which should give me a chance to get some updated pictures of them. I bought a nice big diffenbachia a few months back and have been growing it out to ensure any pesticides/fertilizers have had a chance to run their course. (It's really hard to get good plants when the average temperature is -20 C or lower throughout the winter months.)
Hopefully with the increased plant cover and light-shading canopy they'll become a bit bolder.
But when you do get to see them, it is a treat. I've got a great shot of one of them in a flowering brom if anyone cares to see it.


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