# New Leuc froglet with SLS?



## Patricius (Aug 27, 2014)

I shall name it "Nemo"

Does this look like a case of SLS? The froglet gets around fine and is a healthy eater, though it doesn't climb as well as its siblings.


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## mfsidore (Oct 10, 2012)

Nemo looks fine to me, I think your okay.


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## Patricius (Aug 27, 2014)

mfsidore said:


> Nemo looks fine to me, I think your okay.


That left rear leg is just a little nubby, his "lucky fin." Is this something that just happens sometimes?


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## mfsidore (Oct 10, 2012)

SLS usually just affects the front legs I'm pretty sure, do have a better pic of the concerned leg?


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## Patricius (Aug 27, 2014)




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## zimmerj (Aug 20, 2014)

Newbie question here: What is SLS? I gathered that it probably stands for "short leg syndrome"? What causes that, a calcium deficiency?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

am so happy to read that a noob is willing to ask a question...props But also would suggest reading previous posts using that specific question...lots of really good information...


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## mfsidore (Oct 10, 2012)

He leg does look kind of funny, but I can tell if it's folded or SLS, can someone with a little more experience help me out?


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## Adam (Nov 8, 2013)

SLS normally does affect the front legs. SLS stands for spindly leg syndrome. The most common reason that is believed to be the cause is leaning towards tadpole development at to high a temperature. I have never sen a case of this with the rear legs. Looks to be just a genetic defect.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Adam said:


> SLS normally does affect the front legs. SLS stands for spindly leg syndrome. The most common reason that is believed to be the cause is leaning towards tadpole development at to high a temperature. I have never sen a case of this with the rear legs. Looks to be just a genetic defect.



Where did you get that "fact" about temperature? 

For the record, the main cause is not temperature related... The nutritional status of the adults is the primary cause of spindly leg in frogs... poor nutritional status with respect to vitamin A is a primary source of SLS... 
One of the old studies back in the 1990s at the Baltimore Zoo was unable to develop SLS in frogs provided the adults had proper nutritional status... this was later confirmed in other studies. 
As a side bar excessive phosphate in the water was documented as a causative agent at several institutional collections. Once the phosphate levels were corrected the incidence went back to zero... 

It may not be a genetic defect instead it could have been due to a mechanical injury or something else impacting the development.... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mfsidore said:


> He leg does look kind of funny, but I can tell if it's folded or SLS, can someone with a little more experience help me out?


Hind legs are linked to SLS in some of the literature but in all of the documented studies I'm aware of hindlegs were not involved without the front legs being involved. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Adam (Nov 8, 2013)

This is from 
https://saurian.net/froginfo_dartfrogbreeding_faqs.html#SpindlyLegSyndrome


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## Adam (Nov 8, 2013)

There are a variety of causes of spindly leg, some we can fix and some we haven't identified. The causes we can fix are temperature of the tadpole water, condition, diet and supplementation in the adults, and the tadpoles diet.

Tadpole water temperature might be the most common source of a problem, the tadpole water should be accurately measured, particularly if you raise your tadpoles without a lid on the container they are in. This can allow evaporative cooling to lower the water temps down to five or more degrees below room temperature. Keep tadpoles water in the mid seventies for best results.

Another common cause of problems is stale food. Vitamins and mineral oxidize out of foods, and then are not available for the tadpoles to use in developing their legs. Flake foods in particular are prone to this, so if you are using flake food, make sure its fresh. Store it in the refrigerator, particularly if you are going to be using the food for more than a few weeks, and buy the food at a store that sells a lot of it.


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## Adam (Nov 8, 2013)

I dont claim to know everything. Just trying to help out a little. But doesn't look like a mechanical injury. But I am sure someone will point it out if I am wrong. That is not uncommon being a human, and keeping frogs as a hobby and not my living.


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

It is rare these days to even see SLS with the advances in vitamins and such though.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Patricius said:


> I shall name it "Nemo"
> 
> Does this look like a case of SLS? The froglet gets around fine and is a healthy eater, though it doesn't climb as well as its siblings.


 If his siblings are all looking normal and he is eating well , I would just enjoy Nemo and save worries for another day.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Adam said:


> This is from
> https://saurian.net/froginfo_dartfrogbreeding_faqs.html#SpindlyLegSyndrome


Patrick needs to update his website. That information is well out of date and wasn't even well supported to begin with in the literature. If your interested in the history behind SLS in the hobby I suggest checking out Kowalski,Edward; 2007; Spindly Leg Syndrome: A Review; Leaf Litter 1(2):28-31. For where the links between nutrition and SLS were made, back in 2009 and some of the early links were discussed here on the forums... see for example
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fo...ient-retinol-embryo-death-sls.html#post321627 

Advocation to switch to adding vitamin A to the diet of the adults.... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/59875-sls-question.html#post518458 

The primary cause of SLS is deficiency of vitamin A in the egg as this prevents proper formation of the limb buds of the frogs. If you really want to get into the nitty gritty part of the importance of vitamin A in the form of retinol for proper development of anurans, I suggest 
Yun-Bo Shi, 1999, Amphibian Metamorphosis: From Morphology to Molecular Biology; Wiley-Liss Press. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## zimmerj (Aug 20, 2014)

Is it a good idea to supplement with vitamin A once a month or so even if you aren't having issues with SLS?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

zimmerj said:


> Is it a good idea to supplement with vitamin A once a month or so even if you aren't having issues with SLS?


Some of the cutting edge vets recommend doing so even if you aren't having issues with SLS or fertility. The reason for this is that a once a month or twice a month additional source of vitamin A in the form of a retinoic acid can help with other problems. People often forget that vitamin A is involved with a wide range of physiological system starting with the immune system all the way through the ability to feed (due to changes of the mucous producing cells) to reproduction. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Itsalltender (Sep 6, 2014)

looks fine


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## Kas (Oct 6, 2013)

Is supplementing with Vit A (once a month) necessary if giving Repashy Calcium Plus daily?


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

Kas said:


> Is supplementing with Vit A (once a month) necessary if giving Repashy Calcium Plus daily?


The short answer - yes, it's necessary. Calcium Plus was not specifically designed with frogs in mind. Vitamin A Plus was.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

ecichlid said:


> The short answer - yes, it's necessary. Calcium Plus was not specifically designed with frogs in mind. Vitamin A Plus was.


I'm going to give this actually a maybe since we don't have anything to rely on other than anecdotal evidence. On a purely anecdotal basis, if you use the Repashy Calcium plus after an issue with vitamin A deficiency has started in some cases it does not resolve the issue however if used before issues are noted it does appear to prevent it. Once to twice a month usage of the vitamin A itself works as a good hedging the bet methodology. 

Some comments 

Ed


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