# Luis' 20 gallon vert build



## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Hello everybody. My names Luis Gomez and I'm 16. I have been keeping saltwater fish for around 3 years. And now want to keep darts.
I've been reading around on the board an I love it here. I wanna say thanks to all those who've answered my Q's and helped me out so far. 

I'm going to be keeping a group of d.imitators. The tank I'm using in a regular 20 gallon. I'm using GS as the background. It will be covered with coco fiber probably by this coming week. I'm also going to have a water feature if I can pull it off, which I'm fairly confident I can. I'm still looking around to see what lights and filter to use. I'm thinking zoomed turtle filter 501. What do you think? 
Here are some pictures of what I have so far.


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

seems to me that the 20 gall like you have it is kinda small to do a water feature. you dont wanna get your substrate soaking. As far as the 501goes, it is a good filter i think, i have it in a 18x18x24 exo terrra tho.. it is external so drilling might be an issue if you arent familiar on drilling, and if the tank is tempered. 

over all tho i like the background, how you did the different ledges with the gs. keep us posted

srry im not try ing to cut down your ideas, just dont want you to buy material you wont need and expesial since they are like 50 dollars


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for the input. It's always appreciated. The water would drain through the false bottom. Would that still soak the substrate? As for the filter, I know some local from the reef keeping community that could help me out.


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

it all depends on were the water fell into.. if you are thinking of running it down the wood then it might and most likely will run behind it and seep into the substrate and that would cause it to be too wet. water has a mind of its own and really runns wich ever way it pleases. i had a setup similar to this except mine wasnt a vert but i had the water running down the wood and it would drip down and soak my substrate.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

what if you made a little pool of GS at the bottom of the wood so the water didnt even touch the substrate? you could poke pencil size holes in the bottom of it and put screen over that and then aquarium rocks over that to conceal it. 

nice idea, good luck with it! its nice having another "younger" frogger in washington. i dont know any others anyway.

by the way les pauls are great


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

Looks like a great start! I think the substrate wouldn't necessarily be too wet if you keep it from directly touching the pool, put a tiny piece of driftwood or some rocks between the water and the land to keep it from wicking out into the soil. Depending on how you have your return though, you may end up soaking your substrate...


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I'm gonna see what I can do when I get home from school today. You play guitar thedude?


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

ya i play, i had a epiphone les paul for a while but sold it to get a jaguar. wouldnt it be nice to be able to afford a gibson?


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Hell yeah it would. I might start making payments on one. I've been playing for 3 years. How about you.


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## brozeus (Feb 27, 2008)

it may be difficult to get that piece of driftwood to fit exactly how you want it. you probably should have dry fit the wood and foamed it into the background w/ the GS and then built the egg crate around it so it would fit correctly. b/c it is a vert, it doesn't look like you have that much depth to play around with and fit the wood into place. but off to a good start, curious to see how it will finish.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I want to place the wood in the same way as one of my all time favorite vivs. Sticking up in the middle. I'll play around with it and see what I get. 
member-s-frogs-vivariums/topic30203.html

I also coated the GS with brown silicone and added a plate of stone to each of the ledges. I think it came out really well. I'll have pictures tomorrow. Thanks all for looking.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

ya that viv is amazing! i could never do that, im not good at "arts and crafts" :lol: im sure yours will look great though. already looks good!

ive been playing off and on for 4 years. i get busy and have a bad memory so i forget alot of songs when i stop playing for a bit. made a cd with two of my friends that got labeled with a small(seriously small) record company in a different state. its kinda good especially since its all improv so there was no writing or anything. now nobody plays cause theyre too busy  how about you? in a band?


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I play with friends but I'm not in a band. You should send me a link to your cd. Sounds interesting. 
I'll have updates pics in a few.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Here are some pics from a few minutes ago.




















I still have to add a little more to the middle ledge, on the right side. And I'm going to clean up the silicone a little. I'm going to hopefully add coco fiber to the back later this week.
I'll keep this thread updated as I keep working on the viv. Thanks for looking.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

i sent you a PM of are myspace page.

why did you add silicone but not coco fiber?


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Since the viv is going to be right by my window there was a lot of light seeping though the thing layers of GS. So I wanted to make it darker first.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I'm going to add silicone and coco fiber to the background now. How should I go about doing this? Do I _need_ to add water to make it expand? Or can I just add silicone then stick the coco fiber to the back? And if I _do_ need to add water how should I dry the coco fiber? 

Thanks


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## thetattooedone (Mar 26, 2007)

Hey Luis, 

If you haven't done it yet, I'd recommend drying the coco fiber first. It will stick much better this way. Trying to get wet coco fiber to stick to the silicone can be difficult and depending on how much water is still in the coco fiber, it could delay curing time significantly. 


Brent


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok thanks Brent. I got a block that expands to 2 cubic feet. I'm guessing I won't need the whole thing so do I just grab a bunch and add water to it wait for it to expand and then dry? Is using the oven the quickest way to dry it? What temp and how long do I put it in there for? Thanks


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## M_A_B (May 2, 2008)

make the whole thing. Its too hard to make just some of it. It usually turns out too dry or too wet. I just let it sit in the sun and if expands and dries in about 45 min.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok thanks. I'll do that.


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## Demosthenes (Dec 8, 2006)

edwing206 said:


> What do you think?


I think i am very jealous. You must have great understanding parents. Mine wouldn't allow me to have any type of pet except for a betta fish or two when I was living with them. :roll: 
Now I'm finally on my own, but my dart project is on hold due to lack of funds!

Other than that I think it looks great. I love those ridges you made with the foam. Looks like you're going to have a very dynamic tank. Do you know what you'll be putting in it yet?


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## Demosthenes (Dec 8, 2006)

M_A_B said:


> make the whole thing. Its too hard to make just some of it. It usually turns out too dry or too wet. I just let it sit in the sun and if expands and dries in about 45 min.


Yikes, sorry for the double post, but agreed. I tried to use just half of a block once because I didn't need a lot for my Tarantula's smaller vivarium. I ended up sticking half the block in a bowl of water. Not only did it look really funny, but it was really hard to separate the dry stuff from the expanding stuff.. those bricks are dense! 

Good luck!


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I have the viv in my room. But I have a 4 foot reef tank in the living room. My parents just don't want it to become an eye sore.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Oh gosh, it won't be an eyesore once it is done. It will be eye candy  
Candy


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I got the coco fiber on the back and added part of the front pane. Still got some cleaning up to do as I want it to look really tidy. I'm going to cover up the false bottom from the outside so it won't be visible. I think I'll velcro some black plastic sheet so I can remove it when necessary. I also got my lights. They are 2x 5.5" Fluker's Porcelain Clamp Lamps. with spiral bulbs that put out the power of 60 watts each. Will this be enough?


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## M_A_B (May 2, 2008)

looking good. I look foward to some more updates so post em when ya take em. great work :mrgreen:


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks! I'll be sure to keep this thread alive and well. :mrgreen:


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## thetattooedone (Mar 26, 2007)

How are you planning on mounting the lights? 2x60w is a lot for that size tank. Just be sure you have them mounted far enough away so that you don't get heat issues. Other than that, everything looks like it's coming along nicely. 

Brent


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks Brent. The lights are the kind that use 15 watts and put out the amount of 60. They also don't produce heat. At least that's what the box says. I'll keep them running for a whole day and see if there is in fact any heat or not. Then I will go from there.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I've fallen a little behind on the construction of my viv but plan to be back in full swing very soon. I ordered plants from Spring Valley Tropicals and they were supposed to be here already but they're not. We'll see what happens in the next day or so. I also emailed them and heard no response. I hope everything comes out fine. Has anybody ordered from them? Any feedback? Thanks


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Well it's been weeks since I ordered from Spring Valley Tropicals. I got a few responses stating that they have fallen a little behind. And seeing as they are about 2 1/2 weeks late I'm getting a little annoyed. 
On another note, I covered the falsebottom around the pool are with small river rocks. It looks a lot better now. I'm gonna put a small layer of sand at the bottom to make it look more natural. 
I'll post pics tomorrow. Stay tuned!


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

My brother has my USB cable for my camera so no pictures today. Does anybody have any advice on what I should do about the Spring Valley Topicals order? Should I keep waiting for a little longer?


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## IndianaJosh (Jun 20, 2008)

I have never ordered from there before.. but did they charge your card yet?


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Not sure if they charged it already. It's my brother's card and I'll have to check with him. I know that companies shouldn't charge cards unless they ship you order out, so we'll have to see about that.


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## IndianaJosh (Jun 20, 2008)

Let's hope they didn't. A lot of times you can call your credit card companies and dispute the charges and tell them that they did not ship the product. 

Good Luck!


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Well they sent me an email yesterday saying that they shipped the order but for it "disappeared" for some strange reason. They are supposedly shipping a new box tomorrow. Let's hope I get freebies.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Well I received all but one of my plants today. I got them settled in the tank. Here are some pics.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

looks really good! your background looks a lot better than mine ever turn out. you might want a couple more plants though, maybe a begonia or creeping fig. or a small fern. haha havent seen a "bop it" in a while


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks Adam! Do you know where to get some ferns that stay small around here. Speaking of ferns, which ones stay small? 
Hahaha, yeah I love that bop-it. I'm getting pretty good. My friend brought it over and I've been playing it a lot recently.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

well molbacks had a bunch for a while but they dont have any now, i got 3 from them and two of them stay small but their tags just said "fern" so i cant tell you what they are. try asking in the plant forum.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok thanks. I'll go check out the plant forum.


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## Adonis Lowery (Jan 24, 2008)

I like this set up. I think that the water feature will be a blast. Keep up with the good work.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thank you very much. I decided not to go with a water feature this time around.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

good idea. they look cool but have no real purpose for the frogs and just take up space. it would be cool to have one in a big tank though, or maybe just a drip wall or something  its looking good!


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Plus I didn't want to have the substrate soaked the whole time.
Thanks for the compliment.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I haven't updated this in a while, not much has happened. I'm getting 2 males imis this Sunday, I can't wait! I'd like to keep a group of 4 in this tank, what would be an ideal male/female ratio? Thanks- Luis
Here are some pics I took tonight.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Congrats Luis on a nicely put together tank, the frogs will be very happy. It's great to see someone take the time to get it they way they want it, most people want to set up a tank and have frogs in it the next day (I am one of those people). My personal preference for thumb groups is 1.2 as i have always had success with this ratio. If you can get 2 females to go with your 2 males likely one male would be the dominant breeder, 20 gallons is a good size tank for thumbs so even 3 females would be better.


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## Lilypad87 (Feb 21, 2007)

really nice dude, i like the driftwood standing up in the middle, maybe i can borrow that idea in the viv im working on now  the broms on that driftwood and on the back too gives it a lot more depth really cool


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

tanks looks great now that its grown in a little, nice looking broms too.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for all the love guys , hehehe.
So it would be best to have 2.2 or 2.3? I'm thinking 5 frogs or even 4 would be max for this tank right? Thanks- Luis


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Great job - the broms look really happy in there! 

As for frogs, my recommendation, based on doing a LOT of reading about imi's (they will be my next frogs) is to shoot for 2.1. The reason I say this is I have read that females will eat/stomp eggs. 

What morph are you planning? Sorry if you already mentioned it...


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

afterdark said:


> Great job - the broms look really happy in there!
> 
> As for frogs, my recommendation, based on doing a LOT of reading about imi's (they will be my next frogs) is to shoot for 2.1. The reason I say this is I have read that females will eat/stomp eggs.
> 
> What morph are you planning? Sorry if you already mentioned it...


Thanks. The broms love daily mistings. I have 2 pups growing, they look a little weird, lol, tall and very thin.

I don't think I've mentioned it yet, but they will be standards.


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Looking brilliant mate, the imis will love it in there...

Welldone...

Richie

P.S Those Logitech speakers are amazing, I have them, the frogs will love them too  haha


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks a lot Richie. I love the speakers, not sure if my neighbors do though......  lol


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

afterdark said:


> Great job - the broms look really happy in there!
> 
> As for frogs, my recommendation, based on doing a LOT of reading about imi's (they will be my next frogs) is to shoot for 2.1. The reason I say this is I have read that females will eat/stomp eggs.
> 
> What morph are you planning? Sorry if you already mentioned it...


I have never had any thumbs when multiple females are present eat any eggs, others may have but working with probably 10 -15 different groups over the years I have never seen it happen. With one female you have a good chance of burning her out if she is the only object of breeding attention for 2 males, multiple females will defer the stress. And yes 4 to 5 frogs in your 20 gallon would max it out.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Luis, perfect tank....really! 

I'd suggest removing those hydrometer thingy's. Not necessary. Mist until you have visible moisture and happy frogs [bold and foraging].

Keep the 'outside' room temp below 80F and you wont really need to monitor to the tank inside. I generally run an AC in the frog room in summer to 74F. In winter I heat to 64F.

I'd agreed with Mark also. I've kept many thumbs in multiples....my current standard imis are 2.3 in a 20H for instance. I also have 1.2 in a 10, 1.1 in a 10, 1.1, 1.2 ... etc. I think 4-5 in that tank is great. Perfectly set up for thumbs...you'll be a master!

Best,


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

sports_doc said:


> Luis, perfect tank....really!
> 
> I'd suggest removing those hydrometer thingy's. Not necessary. Mist until you have visible moisture and happy frogs [bold and foraging].
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the kinds words. 

Haha, yeah I just put those gauges in there for fun, turns out they just fill with water and the needle stays in the same place regardless if the temp/humidity changes, lol. Out they go!

I think I'll aim for 2.3 for this group. Do imis come in male or female heavy? 

Thanks -Luis


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Got my 2 imis today!(Thanks a lot Brent )
They are already pretty active, the smaller one is usually out on the glass or on one of the ledges on the background. These guys are TINY! They are super awesome though, can't wait to get a little more cash and get some females. They are 1.5 years old.
Here are a few cool pics I managed to snap.









































-Luis


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## thetattooedone (Mar 26, 2007)

Glad to see that they've settled in nicely! I'm sure they'll be really happy in your viv too. 

Brent


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks a lot Brent.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Little update: I got a new brom in, Chili Verde, Thanks a lot Antone!
I also picked up another imitator, Thanks Nate. 
It has VERY bright colors and a great lamasi like pattern. 
I also changed the tank around to make room for the new brom. Since introducing the new frog and putting in the new brom both of the other frogs seem to be MUCH more active, climbing all over the back and glass and the plants too. I'll get another pic of the tank soon, this one does not do it justice, the whole tank has a lot more depth to it.
Here are some pics, enjoy.





































Thanks -Luis


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

sweet broms!!


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Great job! Beautiful broms!! You have done your homework and passed. Did you figure out your waterfall? Can't really see in the pic.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks guys! 
I decided not to go with a waterfall on this tank, it would have taken up way too much valuable floor space. Perhaps next time, with a horizontal tank.

When I got home from school today I saw all three of the frogs out and two of them were on the front glass again. I think they like it there.


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## jackxc925 (Dec 22, 2007)

I would recommend that you move that bromeliad on the bottom to a different location, it looks like its eventually going to lose its color/die because your chile verde is casting so much shade.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I was gonna put it somewhere else but I ran out of super glue, I don't have much room for it though, I might end up selling/trading it.


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## froggies3 (Feb 1, 2011)

could you post a plant list?


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I took this tank down a LONG time ago. I don't remember what plants there were, sorry.


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