# Seizure treatment for O. pumilio



## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

Hello all, 
Unfortunately, I received a loma partida today that definitely had a seizure in transit. I received a group of 4 and they all seem healthy. Well fed, good color, active, etc... with the exception of one. when she arrived her hind legs were a little "draggy" and limp which seemed strange, but she was acting normal otherwise. I was hoping that she just got a little shook up and would be back to normal before too long. I offered springtails and she ate a few. However, after about 8 hours in her temporary enclosure, she was still just sort of sitting in basically the same place. So, of course, I decide to rouse her a little bit to see if she had mobility and she panicked hopping around for a second, then proceeded to have a couple second long seizure. Probably one of the scariest things I have seen keeping frogs. Considering the health of the other frogs, I am willing to believe that it was simply the stress of being shipped that caused this, not calcium deficiency or something else. 

Regardless, what should I do to treat this and try to rehabilitate her? She still seems alert and is willing to eat just not active. I have read about calcium baths, and feeding calcium gluconate. I am uncertain of what to do to treat her properly though. I'm sure it will be tough, but obviously I'd like to try everything I can for her. 

Main point: How do I treat a frog who has/had seizures?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

It sounds like classic obligate calcium deficiency to me. How old are they? If they were shipped, they should be well beyond needing springtails. Get him/her on properly dusted flies, asap. Repashy Calcium Plus is my recommended, stand alone, complete supplement.


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

I offered dusted melanogaster per my usual feeding for pums and she seemed uninterested. The other three ate a few though. I think she will be more willing to eat in a day or so hopefully. I will absolutely offer calcium+ dusted flies daily until she seems better. Thank you for the suggestion. Do you really think it's a deficiency not simply stress? I have read that stress alone can cause seizures in especially pumilio.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Stress does not cause muscle seizures in a healthy frog. You are reading old information that has not taken what I've always called "Pumilio four month death syndrome", which I've also seen called "Moods" for Mysterious Obligate Offspring Death Syndrome".
Light stress events are usually what sets it off.
Back in the day, you had 2, maybe 3 tries to capture a frog before it was time to rest him. Too many tries and he would spasm. If he spasmed, you waited a good week before trying to capture him again. Back then, we somehow thought it was normal. Really? In the wild, that would be a death sentence. I promise you, no frogs ever evolved to deliberately go into spasms at a light stress event. Back then, we simply didn't have proper vitamins. It wasn't normal, it's just that the vast majority of frogs in the hobby, didn't have proper vitamin supplementation. 
That is simply not normal, healthy behavior. 
Stress alone does not cause muscle spasming in Pumilio or any Obligate for that matter.

This was actually the entire drive behind bringing calcium bearing clay substrates to the hobby. 

Keep in mind, every time she strikes at a dusted fly, even if she doesn't capture the fly, she hit it with her tongue. She got some calcium even though she didn't eat the fly. "Some", is generally quite a bit more than "none".


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I've never used a calcium bath, but this could be the time to try that.


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

Understood. I appreciate the update Doug. Perhaps I will try a bath. For a little while, I think I will do my best to up their vitamin intake through diet. Hopefully they improve. I will try to remember to keep this thread updated.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

I can’t find the exact protocol (I really looked), but 2% calcium gluconate is what I’ve used for topical calcium.

I had some thumbnails in a very large vivarium with lots of cork and nooks and crannies, and I believe the microfauna population stayed high enough that the frogs hardly ate dusted flies. Eventually I had a male that would seize after calling or scuffling with another frog- like @Pumilo said, he couldn’t handle acute stresses/expenditures.

I separated him to a quarantine container with Turface and clay and no (intentional) microfauna, fed small frequent quantities of dusted flies, and treated him with calcium gluconate. I’d capture him in 32oz cup, lightly mist with water, then apply a couple drops of calcium. 

I’m sorry I can’t find the exact protocol, but that frog made a complete recovery. I’ll keep looking.


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## dmb5245 (Feb 7, 2014)

Pumilo said:


> I've never used a calcium bath, but this could be the time to try that.


A few years ago, I was at the end of my rope with Short Tongue, so I did VitA baths. Not sure if it actually helped (the frog *did* recover), but the soak process seemed pretty low stress for the frog.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

A relevant thread with treatment instructions:

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/7679-seizure-yet-again.html


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

I found my notes. 

Copypasta from literal notepad: 



> I sequestered him to a temporary enclosure and began administered Calcium gluconate via topical solution after brief H2O misting, twice daily for 7 days. I fear the display is too large and the frogs' diet is consisting largely of springtails instead of dusted flies. No springtail were purposefully introduced to the temporary enclosure. Only a few dusted flies are offered daily, I try to kill any remainders the next day before feeding freshly dusted flies again.


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

Thank you everyone. This was very informative. I will keep y'all posted. Where should I get calcium gluconate?


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

LouiesLair said:


> Thank you everyone. This was very informative. I will keep y'all posted. Where should I get calcium gluconate?


Livestock supply. It will come in a giant plastic vial with a rubber stopper. Easiest way to use it would be to withdraw the solution using a needle and syringe. 

You want 2%, so if you buy a 23% bottle you will need to dilute it- the syringe is useful for this.


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

Ok, so it comes diluted and I have to dilute it again to 2%?


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

Found it at a local feed store. Thank you everyone.


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

Update:
I don't want to get ahead of myself, but here is the scoop from the last few days. I tried doing a calcium carbonate drip for a day and yesterday morning the loma partida didn't seem to be improving, in fact, quite the opposite. She was virtually immobile yesterday morning. So, I upped the ante so to speak and conducted a calcium bath.

I soaked her for a little over 30 mins in an approximately 2.3% solution. She went from zero motion to a very small amount of motion. Today, when I went to feed with dusted melano she seemed uninterested and was sitting basically still as I dumped flies. I moved on to feed other tanks and checked back a few mins later. When I checked back, she had moved well across the tank and seemed to be more alert. I didn't see her eating however. I gave her her space and checked back about 20 mins later and saw her hopping almost normally. It would seem that the calcium bath brought her from motionless to slightly mobile. 

I will conduct another bath tomorrow and keep tabs on her progress. Thanks again for everyone's assistance.


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

For anyone who is interested. It seems that the loma partida who suffered from a seizure has made a full recovery and is now on a consistent diet of dusted flies. Thanks again to all who helped me get this figured out. 

-Louie.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Very cool!


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