# Smelly Cultures



## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

All of my fruit fly cultures are smelling really bad and are stinking up my room. I'm using Josh's Frogs melo. media to culture my fruit flies and I keep them in Tupperware containers with air holes on the lid and on paper towel soaked in anti-mite spray. I keep a cup of baking soda in the containers with the cultures to help with the smell but they still smell horrible, sort of like a rotten cheese/athletes foot combo.... Are there any ways to keep them from smelling less? It's getting really bad. Any help would be appreciated.


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

Hmmm... cheese/foot smell seems to me to be like a bacteria/mold issue that may be benefiting from moisture. I've used Josh's frogs exclusively since I've owned frogs (7yrs) I've had smell with keeping old cultures around, poor ventilation, or when I put in some of my own ingredients.

From the sound of your set up there may be too much moisture in the culture container. Also, how long do you keep the cultures? Is some of the smell the anti mite spray. I used to have mites but I think I throw away my cultures before they develope mites or get time to multiply too much.


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

I use Josh's FF media also, but I throw out my cultures after a month even though they are still producing. This helps keep the smell and the mites away.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Quaz said:


> Hmmm... cheese/foot smell seems to me to be like a bacteria/mold issue that may be benefiting from moisture. I've used Josh's frogs exclusively since I've owned frogs (7yrs) I've had smell with keeping old cultures around, poor ventilation, or when I put in some of my own ingredients.
> 
> From the sound of your set up there may be too much moisture in the culture container. Also, how long do you keep the cultures? Is some of the smell the anti mite spray. I used to have mites but I think I throw away my cultures before they develope mites or get time to multiply too much.


If I keep the Rubbermaid container open, the smell will "pour" out into my room. I use excelsior to get more surface area but I also put in a few coffee filters to help regulate the humidity. Also, I recently made a few cultures with a lot less water then I usually use and the flies ended up shriveling up and dying in these, possibly from the lack of water. The mite spray doesn't smell bad.



chesney said:


> I use Josh's FF media also, but I throw out my cultures after a month even though they are still producing. This helps keep the smell and the mites away.


Once a culture is 5 weeks old it goes into the freezer and then the trash.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Mix some cinnamon in.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Do you spike it with a small sprinkle of Active Bakers Yeast before you add the flies? This will help with bad bacteria getting a foothold.
You could also try adding some cinnamon to the mix. Lot of people do that for the smell.
Doug


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Mitch said:


> If I keep the Rubbermaid container open, the smell will "pour" out into my room. I use excelsior to get more surface area but I also put in a few coffee filters to help regulate the humidity. Also, I recently made a few cultures with a lot less water then I usually use and the flies ended up shriveling up and dying in these, possibly from the lack of water. The mite spray doesn't smell bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Once a culture is 5 weeks old it goes into the freezer and then the trash.


So you keep your cultures in a larger tub with the lid closed? 

This may be the culprit. By doing this it might cause WAY too much humidity and stink up everything. People who keep crickets wonder why they smell, it's because of this. Their feces and urine mixed with the high humidty in a totally closed up tub will make it smell to high heaven. I get that you want to keep the smell in, but if it was left open the humidity wouldn't be high causing bacteria/mold to develop which causes the smell. I would make new cultures if possible and just move those somewhere else or simple trash them after you make some new ones. Do you see any white spots/green or other colorful spots in the cultures? This is mold which some is okay and isn't a problem , but some can be. I think it's the humidity if your haven't changed nothing recently. With the seasons changing and whatnot the way your keeping them now might not work for the summer or vice versa.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

hexentanz said:


> Mix some cinnamon in.


How much? I use 1/2 cup of media to 2/3 cup boiling water. 



Pumilo said:


> Do you spike it with a small sprinkle of Active Bakers Yeast before you add the flies? This will help with bad bacteria getting a foothold.
> You could also try adding some cinnamon to the mix. Lot of people do that for the smell.
> Doug


I'll give the yeast a try. 



packer43064 said:


> So you keep your cultures in a larger tub with the lid closed?
> 
> This may be the culprit. By doing this it might cause WAY too much humidity and stink up everything. People who keep crickets wonder why they smell, it's because of this. Their feces and urine mixed with the high humidty in a totally closed up tub will make it smell to high heaven. I get that you want to keep the smell in, but if it was left open the humidity wouldn't be high causing bacteria/mold to develop which causes the smell. I would make new cultures if possible and just move those somewhere else or simple trash them after you make some new ones. Do you see any white spots/green or other colorful spots in the cultures? This is mold which some is okay and isn't a problem , but some can be. I think it's the humidity if your haven't changed nothing recently. With the seasons changing and whatnot the way your keeping them now might not work for the summer or vice versa.


The cover has a lot of holes in it. There is a small amount of mold in each culture but production is still through the roof.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Mitch said:


> How much? I use 1/2 cup of media to 2/3 cup boiling water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unless it's the black mold it doesn't mean it will affect the cultures at all. But it may make it smell.

Also, maybe your media is too dry. I use 1/2 cup of media also, but use 3/4 cup and it seems a little too dry before the larva start to make it soupy. I'm going to up it a bit on the next batch.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Use about 1/2 teaspoon od cinnamon for 1/2 cup of media. For the active bakers yeast all you need is a TINY pinch. 10 or 20 grains will be plenty.
Doug


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

packer43064 said:


> Unless it's the black mold it doesn't mean it will affect the cultures at all. But it may make it smell.
> 
> Also, maybe your media is too dry. I use 1/2 cup of media also, but use 3/4 cup and it seems a little too dry before the larva start to make it soupy. I'm going to up it a bit on the next batch.


It's definitely not too dry... I think I can rule that out.



Pumilo said:


> Use about 1/2 teaspoon od cinnamon for 1/2 cup of media. For the active bakers yeast all you need is a TINY pinch. 10 or 20 grains will be plenty.
> Doug


Okay, I'll try this on the cultures I'm making tomorrow. Thanks.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Can you send a picture of the culture? A picture will help diagnose the problem.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Sure Josh. This is the smelliest one... I didn't even have to open it, just putting my nose up to the lid. I made it on 12/12


















Check out all the dead flies at the bottom, I didn't even notice that before.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

A couple of things.

First off, the dead flies on the bottom is most likely due to overproduction and/or CO2 buildup. You need to make sure you are taking flies out every other day or it will produce too many flies and you will have dieoff. Or, it could be a case of using too many flies to start the culture (too much production creating overproduction simply due to the number of flies you started the culture with). It doesn't look like a lot of flies, so it makes me wonder if something else is playing into it...

Humidity looks perfect which is almost unheard of this time of year in the average house. This means you most likely don't have much ventilation in your fruit fly storage container. Most people can't get pupae half way up the container in their house during the winter. This leads me to believe that the CO2 buildup is being exsasperated by how you are keeping the cultures (they aren't venting properly).

No mold in those guys. Looks like normal coloration.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

joshsfrogs said:


> A couple of things.
> 
> First off, the dead flies on the bottom is most likely due to overproduction and/or CO2 buildup. You need to make sure you are taking flies out every other day or it will produce too many flies and you will have dieoff. Or, it could be a case of using too many flies to start the culture (too much production creating overproduction simply due to the number of flies you started the culture with). It doesn't look like a lot of flies, so it makes me wonder if something else is playing into it...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help! CO2 buildup could definitely be an issue, as I only open my cultures 1x per week. Maybe I'll try opening each every other day like you said. I only add about 25-50 flies when I start a culture so I don't think that's an issue. 

I used to keep the lids off the tupperware container I keep the cultures in and the pupae would only go like 1/2 inch up the sides of the containers before turning into flies. Then the cultures began to start smelling and I put the lid on the tupperware container, and the humidity was much higher this way, and it doesn't smell AS bad, but it still stinks. 

So do you think that CO2 buildup is the cause of the smell? I think I'll try the yeast and cinnamon also and see if those help.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

All those dead flies at the bottom could certainly be adding to the smell. It will also shorten the productive life of your culture.
Doug


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> All those dead flies at the bottom could certainly be adding to the smell. It will also shorten the productive life of your culture.
> Doug


Just tossed that culture in the freezer


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

packer43064 said:


> So you keep your cultures in a larger tub with the lid closed?
> 
> This may be the culprit. By doing this it might cause WAY too much humidity and stink up everything. People who keep crickets wonder why they smell, it's because of this. Their feces and urine mixed with the high humidty in a totally closed up tub will make it smell to high heaven. I get that you want to keep the smell in, but if it was left open the humidity wouldn't be high causing bacteria/mold to develop which causes the smell. I would make new cultures if possible and just move those somewhere else or simple trash them after you make some new ones. Do you see any white spots/green or other colorful spots in the cultures? This is mold which some is okay and isn't a problem , but some can be. I think it's the humidity if your haven't changed nothing recently. With the seasons changing and whatnot the way your keeping them now might not work for the summer or vice versa.


Soooo humidity build up like I said was right.  lol

I'm glad you got this fixed.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Mitch said:


> Thanks for the help! CO2 buildup could definitely be an issue, as I only open my cultures 1x per week. Maybe I'll try opening each every other day like you said. I only add about 25-50 flies when I start a culture so I don't think that's an issue.
> 
> I used to keep the lids off the tupperware container I keep the cultures in and the pupae would only go like 1/2 inch up the sides of the containers before turning into flies. Then the cultures began to start smelling and I put the lid on the tupperware container, and the humidity was much higher this way, and it doesn't smell AS bad, but it still stinks.
> 
> So do you think that CO2 buildup is the cause of the smell? I think I'll try the yeast and cinnamon also and see if those help.


I think putting the lid on the tupperware container sealed the deal. This made the problem even worse and made the humidty high causing in a 
CO2 buildup. That's how I understood what Josh was saying.

Also with what Josh was saying, if there's too many flies producing and not being enough taken out of the FF culture on a regular basis this can kill a culture. Since I don't have frogs I just feed to the fish, but I've had a few cultures die from overproduction and not enough being taken out. I've since used more on a regular basis like you would with keeping some frogs. Using the culture once a week to use for feeding frogs seems like you may have too many cultures going at one time.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Okay, I think I understand all of this. I'll post again and let you guys know if the smell goes away. Thanks for all the help


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Mitch, 

If you can line the cultures out on a rack, this will allow them to ventilate naturally and not form any smells (I have 300 cultures going at any time without any problems).

Also, if you have a big bloom of flies, feed them off so they don't die in the containers. If you find you are raising too many cultures for the number of frogs you have, you might wan to cut back production a bit (personally, I'd rather feed the frogs heavily).

Good luck! Richard.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Woodsman said:


> (I have 300 cultures going at any time without any problems).


Geez, how many do you make a week?


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Woodsman: Any tips in general or secrets on production you've noticed with making so many.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Okay well I check out all the cultures today and each and every one has a nice thick layer of dead flies at the bottom, making them very hard to feed. What's going on??? I only have 2 cultures to feed my 9 frogs now. Luckily I have tons of springs...


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

I have 13 frogs and 8-9 froglets and I never keep more than 3 cultures active cultures going at a time. Once they bloom I start 3 new ones and toss the old once the new ones start producing good.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Mitch said:


> I only open my cultures 1x per week.





joshsfrogs said:


> First off, the dead flies on the bottom is most likely due to overproduction and/or CO2 buildup. *You need to make sure you are taking flies out every other day* or it will produce too many flies and you will have dieoff.





Mitch said:


> Okay well I check out all the cultures today and each and every one has a nice thick layer of dead flies at the bottom, making them very hard to feed. What's going on??? I only have 2 cultures to feed my 9 frogs now. Luckily I have tons of springs...


As Josh pointed out, If you are not USING the flies in each culture, the overproduction will cause die off. You have stated that you only open once a week. So that's what is going on. If your culture is "really hopping" and full of flies, then it needs to be harvested whether you need flied right then or not. Even if it just means dumping them down the toilet. This will extend the life of your cultures.
Doug


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Maybe the question should be asked is this. What is your feeding schedule like on a weekly basis and how many at any given time do you have "booming" cultures? If you have 9 cultures booming and feeding once a week, then the other 800+ flies per culture (random example) will keep on breeding, die of old age, make the culture degraded with feces and etc. I don't have dart frogs, but I have learned that each cultured NEEDS to be "fed out" as pumilo has stated. Obviously 9 cultures for 9 frogs would be WAY too much, but just throwing it out there. Having extra in case a culture fails is appropiate, they just need to be taken care of like any other culture though or not be made if you don't actually need them.

Also it takes about 2 weeks give or take for the whole life cycle of mels. Give or take and 5 weeks is usually the tops people keep them on average. So you really only have 3 weeks (give or take again) to use them for feeding out. Just something to keep in mind. I've read where people will make 5 at one time then not make anymore for several weeks, then scramble trying to find some extra cultures amongst their local hobbyists. More is not always better at once, weekly making cultures is key.

I think if you feed out more 2-3X a week and not having them in the tub with the lid on top will fix most of these problems. This is a good thread though for beginners with similar problems.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

packer43064 said:


> Maybe the question should be asked is this. What is your feeding schedule like on a weekly basis and how many at any given time do you have "booming" cultures? If you have 9 cultures booming and feeding once a week, then the other 800+ flies per culture (random example) will keep on breeding, die of old age, make the culture degraded with feces and etc. I don't have dart frogs, but I have learned that each cultured NEEDS to be "fed out" as pumilo has stated. Obviously 9 cultures for 9 frogs would be WAY too much, but just throwing it out there. Having extra in case a culture fails is appropiate, they just need to be taken care of like any other culture though or not be made if you don't actually need them.
> 
> Also it takes about 2 weeks give or take for the whole life cycle of mels. Give or take and 5 weeks is usually the tops people keep them on average. So you really only have 3 weeks (give or take again) to use them for feeding out. Just something to keep in mind. I've read where people will make 5 at one time then not make anymore for several weeks, then scramble trying to find some extra cultures amongst their local hobbyists. More is not always better at once, weekly making cultures is key.
> 
> I think if you feed out more 2-3X a week and not having them in the tub with the lid on top will fix most of these problems. This is a good thread though for beginners with similar problems.


Good points, but there is something that goes on that is more than just death of old age. We put flies in a culture to seed it and the same flies are still alive in two weeks. But an overcrowded culture can kill huge amounts of the population if left in there too long. I don't think it is just gas exchange (suffocation), as I've seen plenty of fresh cultures with LOTS of flies in there. But leave it for a week and they can all die. This could be too much waste products for the culture to absorb? Whatever the cause, what it comes to is this...Too many flies for too long equals a prematurely crashed culture.
Doug


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

D3monic said:


> I have 13 frogs and 8-9 froglets and I never keep more than 3 cultures active cultures going at a time. Once they bloom I start 3 new ones and toss the old once the new ones start producing good.


I keep 6 cultures going at once, 2 of which are backups. When the first flies hatch from a culture I use those flies (not all) to make 2 new ones. I make 2 cultures per week so my oldest ones are more then 4 weeks old. I throw them out after 5. 



Pumilo said:


> As Josh pointed out, If you are not USING the flies in each culture, the overproduction will cause die off. You have stated that you only open once a week. So that's what is going on. If your culture is "really hopping" and full of flies, then it needs to be harvested whether you need flied right then or not. Even if it just means dumping them down the toilet. This will extend the life of your cultures.
> Doug


I guess I need to feed a little out of each culture each feeding, and make fewer cultures so I can do this.



packer43064 said:


> Maybe the question should be asked is this. What is your feeding schedule like on a weekly basis and how many at any given time do you have "booming" cultures? If you have 9 cultures booming and feeding once a week, then the other 800+ flies per culture (random example) will keep on breeding, die of old age, make the culture degraded with feces and etc. I don't have dart frogs, but I have learned that each cultured NEEDS to be "fed out" as pumilo has stated. Obviously 9 cultures for 9 frogs would be WAY too much, but just throwing it out there. Having extra in case a culture fails is appropiate, they just need to be taken care of like any other culture though or not be made if you don't actually need them.
> 
> Also it takes about 2 weeks give or take for the whole life cycle of mels. Give or take and 5 weeks is usually the tops people keep them on average. So you really only have 3 weeks (give or take again) to use them for feeding out. Just something to keep in mind. I've read where people will make 5 at one time then not make anymore for several weeks, then scramble trying to find some extra cultures amongst their local hobbyists. More is not always better at once, weekly making cultures is key.
> 
> I think if you feed out more 2-3X a week and not having them in the tub with the lid on top will fix most of these problems. This is a good thread though for beginners with similar problems.


Yea some great information has definitely been stated here. The combination of all of the problems listed are the reason for the smelliness/fly death, which I now know how to fix. 



Pumilo said:


> Good points, but there is something that goes on that is more than just death of old age. We put flies in a culture to seed it and the same flies are still alive in two weeks. But an overcrowded culture can kill huge amounts of the population if left in there too long. I don't think it is just gas exchange (suffocation), as I've seen plenty of fresh cultures with LOTS of flies in there. But leave it for a week and they can all die. This could be too much waste products for the culture to absorb? Whatever the cause, what it comes to is this...Too many flies for too long equals a prematurely crashed culture.
> Doug


Like stated above, I need to feed out of each culture more often so over population (which leads to fly death) does not occur.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Good points, but there is something that goes on that is more than just death of old age. We put flies in a culture to seed it and the same flies are still alive in two weeks. But an overcrowded culture can kill huge amounts of the population if left in there too long. I don't think it is just gas exchange (suffocation), as I've seen plenty of fresh cultures with LOTS of flies in there. But leave it for a week and they can all die. This could be too much waste products for the culture to absorb? Whatever the cause, what it comes to is this...Too many flies for too long equals a prematurely crashed culture.
> Doug


Right on! You know how long a fly can live? I've wondered this. Obviously 2 weeks plus.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

packer43064 said:


> Right on! You know how long a fly can live? I've wondered this. Obviously 2 weeks plus.


This information came from the University of Arizona Center for Insect Science Education Outreach

Here is what I found that relates to our discussion 
"the average life span of a Lab fly is 26 days for a female, and 33 days for a male. (Under crowded conditions this may be reduced to 12 days. Also mutant flies generally have a shorter life span)."
Here is a link to the site I found this information. CISEO: Enforcers References

And a little more detailed info on the complete life cycle for those interested.
_Egg: The egg of Drosophila melanogaster is about 0.5 mm. A female may lay as many as 400 eggs in a favorable egg laying ground (for example, a decaying mushroom or fruit). Within 24 hours of laying, the eggs hatch into 1st instar larvae. In room temperature conditions, this hatching time is as short as 15 hours.

Larva: The larval stage of Drosophila melanogaster consists of three instars. Within 24 hours of hatching, the larva molts to develop into 2nd instar larva. Again after 24 hours (i.e. 48 hours after egg hatching), the 2nd instar larva molts and matures to 3rd instar larva. During these molting stages, the larva loses its spiracles, mouth and hooks.

Pupa: After 4 days of voracious feeding, the 3rd instar larva encapsulates itself inside a hard and dark colored puparium. It is in this pupal stage, where the metamorphosis of Drosophila melanogaster takes place, giving rise to wings and legs. In room temperature condition, the duration of metamorphosis lasts for 4 days.

Adult: The adult Drosophila melanogaster emerges through the operculum of the puparium. And within 8 - 12 hours of emergence, the female fly is receptive. Then, it mates with the male Drosophila for about 30 minutes, during which the male inseminates a few hundreds of sperms in the female fly. The female Drosophila stores the sperms and uses them latter for laying eggs._
Here's the link. Drosophila Melanogaster Life Cycle
Doug


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

The smell is finally gone! I threw out all of the cultures with dead flies and I am only using 3 cultures, each of which I feed with every other day. Thanks for the help again. I'm glad I don't have to live with that smell anymore...


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> This information came from the University of Arizona Center for Insect Science Education Outreach
> 
> Here is what I found that relates to our discussion
> "the average life span of a Lab fly is 26 days for a female, and 33 days for a male. (Under crowded conditions this may be reduced to 12 days. Also mutant flies generally have a shorter life span)."
> ...


Great info thanks!



Mitch said:


> The smell is finally gone! I threw out all of the cultures with dead flies and I am only using 3 cultures, each of which I feed with every other day. Thanks for the help again. I'm glad I don't have to live with that smell anymore...


Awesome!!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Glad you got it under control, Mitch. Plus, you'll save money on unnecessary cultures! Remember not to cut it too close. I'd rather be throwing flies away on occasion than to run low.
Doug


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