# Sow bugs?



## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Are these the samething as something like woodlice or.... has anyone used them before? These are the ones I was thinking of http://www.wormman.com/pd_spanish.cfm


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a good strong culture of Spanish Reds going- the adults are too large for anything but Phyllobates (so your terribilis would handle them easily), though the small soft bodies youngsters will be taken by your imitators, I suspect. I culture them more as viv janitors, as isopods culture EXTREMELY slowly. 

I've also fed them out to my growing salamander collection- the _Ambystomatids_ I keep (tigers, spotted, marbled) take them easily, as do the fire salamanders (_Salamandra salamandra_). The fossorial caecilians (_Geotrypetes seraphini _and _Boulengerula uluguruensis_) have eaten them as well, as I seed their enclosures regularly with dwarf whites and spanish reds.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Good to know Jason. You culture them the same as woodlice?


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

housevibe7 said:


> Are these the samething as something like woodlice or.... has anyone used them before? These are the ones I was thinking of http://www.wormman.com/pd_spanish.cfm


A cheaper way would be to turn over some old wood in your back yard - you'll find a bunch of them, although they probably don't speak Spanish


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> You culture them the same as woodlice?


Yep, the culturing method is identical. The sowbugs you might turn up in your backyard have incredibly long culture times (6+ months) so they aren't really viable feeders, but you can toss 'em no problem.


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

flyangler18 said:


> > You culture them the same as woodlice?
> 
> 
> Yep, the culturing method is identical. The sowbugs you might turn up in your backyard have incredibly long culture times (6+ months) so they aren't really viable feeders, but you can toss 'em no problem.


Do the old 1x10s laying on the ground next to my compost pile count as a culture? Between mid March and October they produce hundreds of pillbugs and sowbugs a week, as well as quite a few other critters.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Do the old 1x10s laying on the ground next to my compost pile count as a culture?


I'd count it  Nothing like easy, free access to frog food! This is the time of year when I spend lots of time digging around our property for amphibian snacks- slugs, snails, assorted worms, isopods, termites, etc.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

jehitch said:


> Do the old 1x10s laying on the ground next to my compost pile count as a culture? Between mid March and October they produce hundreds of pillbugs and sowbugs a week, as well as quite a few other critters.


No, that would be a farm/garden.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Just to let you know... sow bugs, woodlice, rollie pollies are just different common names for crustaceans in the same group of related animals. As for if they culture the same... generally yes but keep in mind different species may like somewhat different coniditions.

The Spanish Red/Oranges are also supposed to just be a color form of a species (or sister species) to one of the species found in the US as well... just bred so they consistantly produce the cool orange coloration. Our native porcellio occassionally pop out some weird colored animals, including oranges... these oranges are called Spanish just because that's supposidly where they were collected originally.


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## Bubble_Man (Nov 11, 2007)

I've tried feeding pill bugs from the backyard to some my newts and a few other herps, but they've always rejected the offer. So dart frogs will actually eat the small ones?


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## RPN (Mar 25, 2007)

Any one have any pics of these Sow bug's?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Any one have any pics of these Sow bug's?


Spanish Red:

photography/topic39292.html


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Hey Jason how are these diff. than the giant orange?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Hey Jason how are these diff. than the giant orange?


I don't think they are different at all- probably just two different names for the same species.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I believe the Giant Orange is a type of tinc :lol: But seriously... Spanish red or spanish orange, they are the same thing. If they are a Porcellio and described as one of those colors, they are likely the same thing (the small reds are a different species that is in a different genus). And honestly... they are orange, I dunno where this "red" came from... all the bug people call them orange!


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Isn`t it just a virus in the normal rough woodlice that give them their color? I have orange, grey and mottled here on the property. 
Another thing to think about is that isopods can sequester heavy metals in their body. When collecting from outside it`s always best to culture them and test for parasites by putting some in a viv, testing the animals before they go in and again after they`ve been eating them, or at least that there are no outward signs of problems. This makes sure they don`t carry heavy metals from living near a rusty fencepost in your yard by getting them to the next generation and that they probably aren`t carrying parasites that can infect your frogs from chytrid to tapeworm, protozoa or other parasites, yet unknown or just untested for like tb or chytrid. 
I`m not saying I don`t advocate using outside bugs to supplement your frogs but the possibility of introducing a new parasite or chytrid into the hobby should be taken into consideration according to how much you influence the hobby by distributing said bugs or offspring of yours that are fed said bugs. I`ve been collecting termites from an amphibian free area for years and culture insects and test them on a group of frogs and continue to culture them. Not a perfect system but I do what I can.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Isn`t it just a virus in the normal rough woodlice that give them their color? I have orange, gray and mottled here on the property.


I've seen the same colors here with rough woodlice here on my property as well. The mottled variety is quite attractive- shades of green, gray, and brown. I'll see if I can get a good picture. Weather is pretty foul today- heavy rains.

With heavy metals, what kind of testing window are you talking about, Aaron? Are you just doing observational testing for heavy metal toxicity based on behavior/failure or thrive or something different? I'm not questioning your methodology, just asking for some clarification.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Read it in a science publication/university study? browsing somewhere someday. Do a search for isopods and metal and narrow from there and you should be able to find something about it. I found it when I was trying to ID what I have here a year or 3 ago. Just saw something about behaviour modification in loons in the adirondacks from mercury affecting breeding success and thought about this thread and viola! Don`t know if it would be a problem but w/ terribilis being such pigs, a rusty fencpost near a compost pile and you never know.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Don`t know if it would be a problem but w/ terribilis being such pigs, a rusty fencpost near a compost pile and you never know.


It's certainly worth investigating. I'll see what I can turn up with a little research.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Speaking of colors, in CA i have seen blue and purple color as well. Pretty neat. I just got Spanish Reds and Dwarf Whites yesterday (thanks for the Tip Jason  ) and they are cool looking. Never thought I would collect bugs, but I guess I do. Anyone have any Mantids?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> I just got Spanish Reds and Dwarf Whites yesterday (thanks for the Tip Jason  ) and they are cool looking.


No problem, Wayne. Glad Mike could help you out! I've got the Spanish Reds roaming in every tank/enclosure I have- great CUC.



> Anyone have any Mantids?


I believe Lee has a couple


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

I am trying to diversify my feeders. I don't know that I will go with a full on clay based soil in my current build, but I am trying to get a good bioload for my Intermedius. I will probably try a few new things with the substrate to enrich it for isopods and springs. I was going to add a compost are to the tank but wussed out. Now I am kind of bummed I did. I think there is a lot of exploring to be had there. Especially with smaller frogs I think it is entirely possible to get the tanks self-sufficient. That would be the goal right 

I might have to ask him. I have this nise sized tank, 12x12x16" that I raised a pair in, and my older sister has always been into spiders and scorions (her last tank was decorated like a 1800's living room for her spider, pretty cool), that kind of thing. So I want to set-up the tank for a Mantid or so for her.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> I am trying to diversify my feeders. I don't know that I will go with a full on clay based soil in my current build, but I am trying to get a good bioload for my Intermedius. I will probably try a few new things with the substrate to enrich it for isopods and springs. I was going to add a compost are to the tank but wussed out.


Diversity is always good. The intermedius will eat the dwarf whites and SMALL Spanish reds, but I value isopods more for their janitorial skills  I'm sure some of the larger ones get predated upon by my fire salamanders and smaller Ambystomatids, but I feed chopped earthworms to them as a staple.

I'm likely going to be doing a totally clay-based soil on my new build for a group of bicolor, now that I have the time to plan it out properly. This is going to be a display tank, which most of my others are not


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Keep us informed. I would like to do more of the clay based, but I don't have the time to track all the stuff down. It is a overwhelming topic in some ways. It would be cool if you could just buy a nice mix. But anyhow, I think I will try a few things anyway. How big is your new tank?


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Not spanish orange Corey, I recieved these as Giant orange... so maybe they are spanish orange, but somewhere down the road the name got mixed up. Maybe some frogger was thinking tincs and it just sounded right as opposed to spanish orange :wink:


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