# thermoelectric cooler to cool viv



## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

so i designed a thermoelectric cooler to cool or heat the viv. there are vents that have a fan to blow air through it. the thermoelectric cooler is attached to a heat sink that sticks into the vents. i will post a picture later. this is best for a display viv so you don't have to cool your whole house or for your first viv so you don't need to get a frog room... yet


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

Where you the one that started a thread about this a while ago? I'm interested to see how this works out and what it looks like!


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

yeah i finally got around to doing it. pics will come later since i am busy right now.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)




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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

How much are you able to bring down the temperature with this setup, and how many watts is your peltier?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

right now, there is a problem so it can't cool the viv but over the weekend when i have time, i should be able to find the problema and fix it. it is a 90w peltier cooler, but it isn't running at full capacity because i can only find a 7.3 amp power supply but it needs a 9 amp power supply.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Look for "12v switchable power supplies" - $40ish for a 30A one.

12v switchable power supply - Google Search

If you are going to be doing any significant cooling and heating - wouldn't a more...ample heatsink be needed? When I was thinking of using a peltier to help cool things down I thought it would be best to have a water block and pump to circulate chilled water over a larger surface area inside the circulation tube.

I'd be interested to see how well this works out. Good luck!


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

didn't take a pic of the heatsink inside the tube. goes all the way down to the bottom of the pipe and along the edges too.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

very nice looking project keep us informed in how it works.


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## asid61 (Mar 18, 2012)

Heatsink in the tube? You mean outside it, on the back and such?
How does this work exactly? Water from the viv into the tube, cooled, and back out?


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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

You may require more active dissipation of heat on the warm side of the peltier, too: a fan to draw air away from the heatsink on top might help your system become more effective. I really like the way this is going, though: definitely keep us posted.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

asid61 said:


> Heatsink in the tube? You mean outside it, on the back and such?
> How does this work exactly? Water from the viv into the tube, cooled, and back out?


Heatsink inside the tube and another outside. Air is drawn in from Viv and cooled/heated then back into Viv.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Update. i have finished my thermoelectric cooler and i have been using it on my viv. It lowers the temperatures from 83 degrees to 77-78 degrees, so that's a 5-6 degree drop in temperature. Granted, it's only a 10 gallon horiz, but it works!!!


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

so here is a parts list
qty 1 40 mm fan
qty 2 2-2 1/2 ABS reducer (the measurements are actually 2 1/2"-3")
qty 2 2 1/2 ABS elbow
qty 1 2 1/2 ABS pipe
qty 1 Thermoelectric (here's the one is used 



)
qty 1 Heat sink with fan attached (larger)
qty 1 heat sink without fan (smaller)
qty 1 Power supply with correct amperage to power the thermoelectric.
(sorry i don't have links for the heat sink or power supply, my friend works at a computer place and he got all the discarded heat sinks and power supplies for me)
i will try to do an official write up soon, but i am really busy right now, so i apologize for the delay.


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## goldenglovz (Sep 12, 2012)

Awesome idea I gotta try that


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## asid61 (Mar 18, 2012)

I made one for my 44, but it just wasn't worth it in the end for the electricity. I will either use it to keep a single highland nepenthes in a 2 gallon jar or use it to heat my feet in winter. Apparently peltiers are efficient heaters.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

i have it "finalized". I'll post a pic later when i have time. The change is that I got a larger heatsink on top, for the hot side, and there is a fan to help dissipate the heat


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## mitcholito (Dec 30, 2011)

I wonder how many times I have seen this idea with Peltier elements during the years? 

And the outcome is always the same.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

mitcholito said:


> I wonder how many times I have seen this idea with Peltier elements during the years?
> 
> And the outcome is always the same.


Which is? ....He says it is working so far...getting 5 degree drop...that is significant....that can be the difference between a live animal... and a dead animal.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I want to resurrect this old thread.

I have a project in mind for a smallish cube (probably 15" X 15" X 15") with thick (2") foam insulation all around. It will have a smallish acrylic viewing panel in the front and openings in the top for the Peltier assembly and lighting. The enclosure will need to chill down to 20F+ below the ambient temperature. I hope this might work with a really well-insulated, small enclosure(?).


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

20 degrees is significant. You will need to remove a lot of water from the air which means you need a plan for the condensate. I have a psychometric chart at work, if you post all of your parameters (ambient temp, rh, target temp, etc) I'll take a look and see if I can come up with any useful info.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much. What else would you need to know besides the volume and the temperatures?

I hope that condensation will be limited. This is going to be a terrarium enclosure, but it will be pretty much sealed up. It will not have automatic misting.


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

For now just give me the temp you keep your house at. And what the humidity will be in the tank. That should give us a rough estimation of the energy we need to remove.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

The ambient temperature will be around 68F, while I hope to cool the enclosure down to around 43F. The inside dimensions will be 16" X 16" X 18", to make a volume of 4,608 cubic inches. As I mentioned it will have lots of insulation and it will be sealed up as tight as possible.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is a quick bookmark for a catalog page with several complete assemblies...

Custom Thermoelectric Assemblies


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

What are you planning to house in the tank hydrophyte? I'm really curious about this idea and could see it used for a lot of situations if its effective enough. 

Good luck, I can't wait for updates as it progresses

John


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

So do you not care about the final humidity, it's just the temperature that is important to you? Can you give me a humidity reading in the room? What are the dimensions of the uninsulated area? We will probably need to estimate the heat load from the light eventually, but that isn't critical yet. I'm working on figuring out the energy needed to get you to 43 degrees, then we can figure out the energy needed to keep you there. 

Oh, glass thickness would be helpful too.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Charlie Q said:


> So do you not care about the final humidity, it's just the temperature that is important to you? Can you give me a humidity reading in the room? What are the dimensions of the uninsulated area? We will probably need to estimate the heat load from the light eventually, but that isn't critical yet. I'm working on figuring out the energy needed to get you to 43 degrees, then we can figure out the energy needed to keep you there.
> 
> Oh, glass thickness would be helpful too.


I imagine that a sealed enclosure with lots of soil substrate and foliage leaf surfaces and a fan blowing the air around will just reach a steady state, pretty high RH level. I hope that with good air circulation there won't be too much condensation on the Peltier module.

The room will probably be around 30% RH, but like I said the enclosure will be sealed. 

We could say that the front glass panel will be 1/4" thick and 100 square inches. There will be a second 30 square inch glass panel in the top. The rest of the enclosure will be insulated with 2" pink extruded styrofoam. The LED fixture will be positioned on the outside of the enclosure and it will contribute practically no heat at all. 

I could alternatively use an acrylic panel 3/8" or 1/4" thick for the front, but glass would be better.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

I think cooling a viv down by 20 degrees will significantly decrease the humidity in the viv. When I cool my viv down by 5 degrees in the summer, it dries the tank out to the point where the leaf litter at the bottom is dried up. When I run the cooler, I must constantly mist to keep the humidity up. However, that being said, it would be interesting to see if you could take the condensation that builds up on the inner heat sink and run that back through a mister or a fogger. It COULD be possible to eventually come to some kind of equilibrium where the water being condensed on the heat sink is equal to the humidity added by the mister/fogger.

Just food for thought.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

FroggyKnight said:


> What are you planning to house in the tank hydrophyte? I'm really curious about this idea and could see it used for a lot of situations if its effective enough.
> 
> Good luck, I can't wait for updates as it progresses
> 
> John


I want to use it for a planting with northern temperate plants. It will not get cold enough to simulate real winter conditions, but I think that along with a shortened photoperiod it will be cool enough for some kinds of plants to induce a vernalization period and keep the plants healthy. I recently visited a cool greenhouse that had quite a few different northern plants all growing very well. These included conifers, ferns, clubmosses, maple trees and evergreen shrubs. The greenhouse does not freeze in the winter, but instead stays in the 40s most of the time.



goof901 said:


> I think cooling a viv down by 20 degrees will significantly decrease the humidity in the viv. When I cool my viv down by 5 degrees in the summer, it dries the tank out to the point where the leaf litter at the bottom is dried up. When I run the cooler, I must constantly mist to keep the humidity up. However, that being said, it would be interesting to see if you could take the condensation that builds up on the inner heat sink and run that back through a mister or a fogger. It COULD be possible to eventually come to some kind of equilibrium where the water being condensed on the heat sink is equal to the humidity added by the mister/fogger.
> 
> Just food for thought.


I thought that part of the role of the blower on the interior heat sink was to deter condensation. Do you still end up with condensate there? Where does it go? Does it just drip off?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

The interior fan is to bring air into the cooler and spread the cool air around. There is still condensation that builds up on the interior heat sink and just drips off. Hypothetically, you could drill a hole under the heat sink, attach a hose on there, and run the hose to the container housing the misting system. Then the condensation could just go back into the misting system and then the air. Not 100% sure how well that would work but it sounds interesting, at least to me. You are definitely going to need to mist heavily to keep the humidity up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

goof901 said:


> The interior fan is to bring air into the cooler and spread the cool air around. There is still condensation that builds up on the interior heat sink and just drips off. Hypothetically, you could drill a hole under the heat sink, attach a hose on there, and run the hose to the container housing the misting system. Then the condensation could just go back into the misting system and then the air. Not 100% sure how well that would work but it sounds interesting, at least to me. You are definitely going to need to mist heavily to keep the humidity up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We are using different types of assemblies. This is the kind that I intended to use...









(Image source: http://www.customthermoelectric.com/assemblies.html)

I believe that I can mount this horizontally. The fan will be oriented directly underneath and right next to the interior heat sink. It is hard to imagine much condensation on the heat sink. It seems as though any that forms there will just drip right down onto the fan where it will then just spray back out into the enclosure.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


> We are using different types of assemblies. This is the kind that I intended to use...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you plan on taking that, and turning it 90 degrees such that the cold side is inside the tank and the hot side is outside? The condensation would probably just drip into the fan as you said. I think you should just watch the humidity levels when you first turn it on and see if misting is necessary. IME it is, but since your set up is slightly different then we might get different results. In mine, the water builds up inside the tube and doesn't go back to the tank, but in yours, it seems as though the water would condense and then go back to the tank. Try it and keep me posted!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

hydrophyte said:


> I want to use it for a planting with northern temperate plants. It will not get cold enough to simulate real winter conditions, but I think that along with a shortened photoperiod it will be cool enough for some kinds of plants to induce a vernalization period and keep the plants healthy. I recently visited a cool greenhouse that had quite a few different northern plants all growing very well. These included conifers, ferns, clubmosses, maple trees and evergreen shrubs. The greenhouse does not freeze in the winter, but instead stays in the 40s most of the time.


Nice! I can see this design working really well for that as long as you can get the drop you need. 

I recently got hooked on mini orchids and have seen pictures of quite a few cold growing ones that normally I wouldn't be able to grow. Maybe with an enclosure like this, people can have more success with them. Again humidity would be the biggest problem.

John


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

FroggyKnight said:


> Nice! I can see this design working really well for that as long as you can get the drop you need.
> 
> I recently got hooked on mini orchids and have seen pictures of quite a few cold growing ones that normally I wouldn't be able to grow. Maybe with an enclosure like this, people can have more success with them. Again humidity would be the biggest problem.
> 
> John


I think I have some cool plant ideas for this setup. I am guessing that some of the tender spring ephemeral wildflowers, such as _Trillium_ or _Erythronium_ really do need to freeze in the wintertime, but I think that temps in the 40s will be cold enough for certain other plants. There are some really cool miniature evergreen shrubs, such as _Epigaea repens_ that grow in the forest Up North and I think some of these might work. I also want to try an _Abies balsamea_ or other northern conifer seedling. 












goof901 said:


> So you plan on taking that, and turning it 90 degrees such that the cold side is inside the tank and the hot side is outside? The condensation would probably just drip into the fan as you said. I think you should just watch the humidity levels when you first turn it on and see if misting is necessary. IME it is, but since your set up is slightly different then we might get different results. In mine, the water builds up inside the tube and doesn't go back to the tank, but in yours, it seems as though the water would condense and then go back to the tank. Try it and keep me posted!


Yeah I think it will probably work OK. The water really won't have anywhere to go. My main concern would be that the moisture might degrade the module components over time, but so long as the fan is blowing it should stay relatively dry.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I roughed out the enclosure for this thing. It is a lot of polystyrene bonded with Gorilla Glue. I wondered about just sealing it up quick with Drylock, but I decided to do it the right way instead with resin + fiberglass. It will be a lot of work to build up the coats of epoxy. I better hurry because it is going to get cold outside.

I used up the last of my US Composites resin. I didn't like that stuff. It's cheap. I think I am going to order the small kit of of this Polygem resin... https://www.polygem.com/products/zoopoxy/bonding-laminating/sinmast-4-1-gallon-kit


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

Ok, sorry I haven't been able to get back with you until now, but I do have some results.

Since you are primarily interested in maintaining steady state, I calculated the heat transfer into the enclosure. I assumed that the insulation you are talking about is the R-10 rigid. if it is different, please let me know, I can adjust that easily.

for a 25 degree Fahrenheit temp differential, you will see roughly:

*175 Watts through the 1/4 inch glass
170 Watts through the insulated walls*

that means you will need 345 Watts of cooling ability simply to maintain that temp.

*Adding an extra 2 inch panel of insulation could reduce the heat coming through the walls to 86 Watts*

The biggest unit from the link you posted had an 80 watt capability. a couple of those might be fine for a 10 or 15 degree drop, but it will be hard to touch a 25 degree drop.


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

Granted, those numbers are not factoring in substrate or background, but they also don't account for any heat gain through air leaks or opening of the tank, radiation from the light, or from watering/misting. nor does it account for the heat required to go from 68 to 43 degrees.

if anyone has questions about the numbers, feel free to ask. I can break it down clearly, it just has several components, so didn't want to get bogged down in the details.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much for these calculations!

I think that the units from that source will not be cost-effective. I wonder if it might be smarter to just get a cheap thermoelectric wine chiller or cooler and yank out the thermoelectric parts. These units must have much stronger heat transfer power. Has anybody here ever opened one of those up?

Here is what I have so far for the enclosure...










I'm going to wrap the rest of the box with that blue fiberglass tape and then seal it will resin in several coats. 

I did not have enough extra scrap of the 2" pink extruded, so I used a double thickness of 3/4" (R-7.5). The other dimensions are a little different too from what I suggested earlier. The interior is 14 1/4" deep and wide, with a height of 19". This makes an inside volume of 3,858 cubic inches (I mentioned 4,608 earlier). About half of this volume (~1,900 cubic inches) will be filled with the false bottom plenum, substrate layers and a replica rock ledge. It seems to me that this will reduce cooling demand. There will probably be a temperature gradient with the false bottom area being warmer and the substrate cooling near its surface. 

Although I like the dimensions of this box now, it would be easy to add another 3/4" of insulation on the inside around the back and both sides and on the bottom. This would make a thickness of 2 1/4" around four sides and reduce the inside volume to 3,141.

I can get further savings by positioning a small 3/4" insulated panel over the plate glass. This removable panedl will just have a small hole right in its center for viewing. 

The top might only have 1" (R-5) of insulation. It depends upon what kind of foam I use for the top. The enclosure will be sealed up almost all of the time and there will be no auto-misting.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

(double post)


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

In my opinion, the more cost effective option would be to go to Lowes and buy one of those 8,000 BTU AC units for $200-$300, and pipe it directly to the box with some insulated hose. even if you could get the pelters to work, they will be much less efficient than a traditional AC system. thermoelectric simply costs more and removes less heat.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

How would you duct an air conditioner through a small hose? AC will remove a lot of water, won't it?

While looking around I see many options for cheap thermoelectric coolers and wine chillers that are similar in size or somewhat smaller than this enclosure that I made. The specifications, such as electricity consumption, for these units are lacking, but they are generally described as providing 20-40F temperature drop. Most of the wine chillers have full glass front doors and pretty thin walls. Here are a couple examples...

Igloo Iceless 40 Quart Thermoelectric Cooler : Target

SPT 12 Bottle Thermoelectric Slim Wine Cooler-WC-1271 at The Home Depot


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

The wine cooler specs say 52 degree minimum temperature. Maybe that is sufficient for your application?

43 degree air cannot hold much water no matter how you are trying to cool it. even at 100% humidity, it can only hold 33 grains per pound. If you are planting plants that grow in those temps, they should be used to dry air.

The only way to know for sure what you can and can't do is to try it. If I had to use my engineering judgement, i would suggest not using thermoelectrics based on operating cost + initial investment. I think that the air will be pretty dry no matter what, if it doesn't condense on the coils, it will condense on the plants, like dew.

But, if you have the money to buy enough peltier units, it would be really cool to see that work. and it is possible with enough of them, and with enough insulation.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

"In my opinion, the more cost effective option would be to go to Lowes and buy one of those 8,000 BTU AC units for $200-$300, and pipe it directly to the box with some insulated hose. even if you could get the pelters to work, they will be much less efficient than a traditional AC system. thermoelectric simply costs more and removes less heat."

Or, just put in a window AC unit and control the temperature that way.


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

Rain_Frog said:


> "In my opinion, the more cost effective option would be to go to Lowes and buy one of those 8,000 BTU AC units for $200-$300, and pipe it directly to the box with some insulated hose. even if you could get the pelters to work, they will be much less efficient than a traditional AC system. thermoelectric simply costs more and removes less heat."
> 
> Or, just put in a window AC unit and control the temperature that way.


the roll around units are the same as the window units, only they sit on the floor not in the window.

Portable AC

I would try to get a 4" flexible duct attached to the output with a large diffuser. put a couple inches of insulation around the duct, and run it straight into the tank.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Might it be easier to chill water and mist with cold water?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Charlie Q said:


> The wine cooler specs say 52 degree minimum temperature. Maybe that is sufficient for your application?
> 
> 43 degree air cannot hold much water no matter how you are trying to cool it. even at 100% humidity, it can only hold 33 grains per pound. If you are planting plants that grow in those temps, they should be used to dry air.
> 
> ...


I wonder if the thermoelectric units used in commercial appliances might just be a lot more efficient than the DIY versions(?). Look at this 10-gallon cooler that is supposed to chill down to 40F... http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman 40-Quart PowerChill -Thermoelectric-Cooler-with-Power-Cord-Black-Silver/21156022 . I bet the insulation isn't more than 1 1/2" thick and it doesn't look like the Peltier components take up a whole lot of room. That bump on one side probably houses all of it. It only draws 4 amps, so that's 48 watts, right?

I added more 3/4" pink styro to most of the inside surfaces of my enclosure, so now most of it is R-10+ and the inside volume is only about 13 gallons.


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

With the increase in insulation, I think you are getting close to a manageable heat load. The interfaces between insulation boards should also increase resistance to heat transfer. 

I still think that you expect too much from the thermoelectric units. The cooler versions are designed to keep cold food cold, so the instructions say, "fill cooler with per chilled items" 

It's essentially just a cooler with a little booster cool unit attached. I would recommend getting one and testing it's capability and electric consumption before canabalizing it for your project. 

That way, if it works, GREAT! If not, you have a pretty awesome cooler. Either way, you'll be the talk of the town.


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## zimmerj (Aug 20, 2014)

So what's the verdict on this? Is the jury still out or was it a bust?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hydrophyte said:


> How would you duct an air conditioner through a small hose? AC will remove a lot of water, won't it?
> 
> While looking around I see many options for cheap thermoelectric coolers and wine chillers that are similar in size or somewhat smaller than this enclosure that I made. The specifications, such as electricity consumption, for these units are lacking, but they are generally described as providing 20-40F temperature drop. Most of the wine chillers have full glass front doors and pretty thin walls. Here are a couple examples...
> 
> ...





Charlie Q said:


> the roll around units are the same as the window units, only they sit on the floor not in the window.
> 
> Portable AC
> 
> I would try to get a 4" flexible duct attached to the output with a large diffuser. put a couple inches of insulation around the duct, and run it straight into the tank.


If you only need to get a tank down to mid 50-60s you probably wouldnt need to divert the entire flow just for one tank unless it was huge and the room very warm IMO. 

What I would do is insulate the tank with 1inch foam panels on all sides (including bottom) except front glass and the top. Actually you could do part of the front hiding the flase bottom/dirt layer. The warmest air would escape through whatever ventilation you had in the top, but cool air would constantly be coming into the system. My guesses is some ventilation at top that allowed u to force out warm air in favor of cool would more then make up for lacknof insulation in that spot. 

You could also have the hose that the cold air came in thru insulated and have that run straight into the false bottom. I would think that would work kinda like a swamp cooler. 

You could take that principle further and have a section of sponge that soaked up water from the false bottom and then the hose with cold air being forced to blow the the air through through the wet sponge and then into the viv... You could even use GS or pond foam around most of the foam carved and painted to look like rock with hidden slats that allowed the cold air passing through the sponge to escape into the viv, probably making it more humid and colder simultaneously???

I know there a limits to how much moisture air of a certain temp will hold, but between maximizing how moist/cool the air is as it enters and a regular misting schedule you probably be fine for most projects I'd think? 

Then I guess you could have a fan blowing into your misting reservoir to further cool that water, or even run a hose from the misting reservoir that has a fan blowing over your reservoir water, and then that cooler air goes back into the vivs so the misting reservoir basically becomes a swamp cooler further cooling the vivs and I'd assume helping to keep humidity up. You reservoir would need refilled more often in that case. You could hook up an RO system with auto top off if you wanted to go the extra mile...the have a diy fogger setup for the extra extra mile since that fog is chilled. Hell use a pond.fogger in the misting reservoir so it becomes swamp cooler/fogger/mister... then your cool air from window/ portable Ac/thermoelectric cooler on top of all that. Add some fans to the vivs for.more evaporative cooling?. 

You could set it up so that everything was on interval timers and one or more of all those proposed cooling/humidifying solutions was on at any given time.

The spare air from the AC would help lower overall room temp. I think trying to blow it all through a normal sized viv would be overkill and hard to manage. Oh and Use led lights to further keep the heat down. 

In the winter you could set it to low/economy mode and maybe lower the thermostat a lil. Running an ad in winter while trying to so keep your home warm is going to cost some money but I'm poor and could probably afford to run 1 5000btu ac all winter for a viv while having my heater fight against it to keep house warm.

I'm lucky I have 5000btu window unit and an area right near there I could put out a 30-40B viv for my psudotron rubers project i'd like to keep. I'd bet if the vivs was insulated even on econ mode I cud put a funnel and insulated hose over one side of ac unit and pump in enough 60 degree air to keep it OK for them, and I'd assume I'd get some extra evaporative cooling, especially since for rubers I'd do a paludarium for them.

Anyways just some thoughts... Oh the compressor driven dorm fridges are another option. They tend to keep stuff pretty cold and some even have freezer section in them.

I think it is key to insulate the cold air hose and the vivarium though if you need to really keep temps down from standard room temps.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I think I'm just to bag the Peltier idea and use a small refrigerator instead. This is a much smarter idea.

Look at this compact beverage fridge...

EdgeStar 84 Can Extreme Cool Beverage Cooler - BWC90SS

This one is supposed to chill down to the 30s and it has twice the volume of the box that I started to make. Access would be much easier with the full glass door. It's even black on the inside. I would need to cut a hole in the top to position a glass panel for the lighting. It might also be necessary to build some kind of box insert to hold the substrate layers, background and false bottom assembly.


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

I think that fridge looks like a great choice. looking forward to seeing your build.


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