# Is my Terribilis too thin?



## Indigocyan (11 mo ago)

Hey, I recently received 3 yellow terribilis.
They stayed in quarantine for about a month while their new tank finished cycling.
The presumed adult male (got a breeding pair and a third what looks to be female that recently grew to be as big as the presumed breeding female.)
Humidity stays between 70-86% Temps are almost always 74f ish, dips to 70/71 at night.
Plenty of leaf litter and tank is bioactive.
I feed them mainly hydei flies dusted with Repashy calcium plus, dendrocare a couple times a week, and Repashy Vit A once a month.

During the quarantine they all ate relatively well, any lack of eating I chalked up to stress from the move. Now they’ve been in the new tank about 4 days and the male started hiding a lot and seems generally uninterested in food. I separated him p much immediately last night out of concern he was too thin (from the angle I was looking at it he didn’t look great). A few hours into being separated I did see him eat a few flies but is still choosing to hide rather than eat for most part (again I assume stress). However in the quarantine tank he seemed to “thicken out” a bit immediately (before I had even fed him in the separated bin) and didn’t seem quite as skinny, which is why I’m not so sure now.

I don’t have another male terribilis to gauge if he’s too small or if I’m just being overly concerned, as I know females will generally be wider, but both girls are quite a bit more plump than he is despite never once having seen aggression from any of them. Just want to see if I should stick to keeping him in.
Any help appreciated.













Pictures taken about 20 minutes ago of him


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## crbonade (May 13, 2021)

Any idea how old they are?

Seems odd to be able to see his spine (I would assume too thin based on that, especially if it's a frog old enough to be sexed, but hopefully someone like @Fahad who has lots more experience can chime in).

The frog on the left is my male Blackfoot, for a possible comparison:


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I don't keep terribilis but that frog appears very thin.


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## Indigocyan (11 mo ago)

crbonade said:


> Any idea how old they are?
> 
> Seems odd to be able to see his spine (I would assume too thin based on that, especially if it's a frog old enough to be sexed, but hopefully someone like @Fahad who has lots more experience can chime in).
> 
> ...


The oldest two were a clutch from 2020 not exactly sure when exactly in 2020 but late. So he’s at least a year now maybe 14-15 months. He’s looked like this since I’ve had him but he did look a bit thicker when I got him. Other two are doing perfectly fine as I mentioned.













Picture on the left is the girls today, picture on the right is younger girl and the male in question (right side leaning against the glass) the day I got them.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

He definitely looks underweight. Could you post a photo of the tank they're in?

My first guess (without seeing the tank) is that he's stressed due to being too close to a dominant animal or otherwise just being out-competed by more aggressive feeders.

I'd try to get some weight on him by offering him smaller sized waxworms (not too many, they're very fatty and can take longer to digest) and gut-loaded, dusted 1/4" crickets. He should be able to take those easily. The size and movement of a cricket will sometimes trigger them in ways flies don't.

Smaller soldier-fly larvae may also work; they have higher nutritional content but can also take some getting used to for a frog and may present digestive issues for a smaller or weaker frog if too many (or too large) are fed. So again, I wouldn't overdo it, just see if he takes one or two small ones.

Also, some terribilis don't respond as well to hydeii as they do melanogaster, as the latter may be smaller but tend to be more mobile, once again triggering a stronger feeding response. In his case I'd definitely try crickets and waxworms first just to gauge his feeding response and put some calories in him.

All that assuming he's merely underfed and not suffering from a different issue. Photos of the entire tank and dimensions thereof would help a lot.


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## Indigocyan (11 mo ago)

@Fahad







36x18x18 exo terra. Glass covering front half of top, mesh at the back top. Abg mix, a layer of coco fibre to get a bit of lift. Garden fabric for separation above the new volcano substratum from exo terra for drainage layer. A small hose runs down the back behind the background into the drainage layer for emptying. Light is an Exo Terra Terrasky plant light LED.
Do you have recommendations on where I can order some of those fattening feeders for him? I was able to pick up some waxworms from petsmart earlier and sort through them to give him a smaller one earlier but he only took the one. Like I said I imagine he’s stressed due to this now being his third move in a short period of time so I’ve been monitoring him closely recently when I noticed he was hiding more and more. I have seen him pick off 10 or so flies here and there since being separated so I’ll keep him in there for awhile and do what I can to get his weight up.
If you see any major issues with the tank by all means, let me know. Otherwise I’ll look into anything I can for some fatty feeders to help.


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## Indigocyan (11 mo ago)

And thank you guys for your input


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I'll defer to Fahad, as I don't have experience with this species, but the less stressful changes for the frog, right now, the better. Sticking to the regular dusted fruit flies is going to be comfortable for the frog so I wouldn't stress yourself out trying to find small wax worms.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Indigocyan said:


> @Fahad
> View attachment 305440
> 
> 36x18x18 exo terra. Glass covering front half of top, mesh at the back top. Abg mix, a layer of coco fibre to get a bit of lift. Garden fabric for separation above the new volcano substratum from exo terra for drainage layer. A small hose runs down the back behind the background into the drainage layer for emptying. Light is an Exo Terra Terrasky plant light LED.


The footprint and opportunities to break line of sight are good; I might add one or two branches -- they'll use them and it creates more overhangs.

One of my favourite dead horses to beat is -- more leaf litter. It'll create more cover and a vertical moisture gradient. Where is the coco-fibre in your substrate layers, below the ABG?



Indigocyan said:


> Do you have recommendations on where I can order some of those fattening feeders for him?


PM me and I may be able to recommend a couple of spots -- although it depends on where in Canada you are.

It's a good thing he's eating and I think you're right that he's just stressed from the moves -- sub-adults are often more skittish than the very bold eating machines adults turn into, and even they may get stressed if moved a lot.



fishingguy12345 said:


> I'll defer to Fahad, as I don't have experience with this species, but the less stressful changes for the frog, right now, the better. Sticking to the regular dusted fruit flies is going to be comfortable for the frog so I wouldn't stress yourself out trying to find small wax worms.


I agree that less change is better and would not discontinue offering flies, but offering very small quantities of something with more calories every now and then should be okay so long as you don't overwhelm the frog with too many. One or two waxworms or soldier fly larvae, just one 1/4" cricket to see if it gets him feeding more aggressively ... these are all tricks I've used to put weight on a frog. You just don't want a situation where the animal is surrounded by new prey items and freaks out from inexperience.

If you don't already, create one or two feeding stations near a hiding place so uneaten flies gather where the frog will find them easily.

If he gets to be eating well and puts on weight it's likely he was dominated -- this doesn't always present as aggression, sometimes subordinate animals just can't hunt or put on weight around the dominant that's stressing them out. I've raised a lot of froglets and experienced this a few times. Sometimes they just need that head start and can be re-introduced to the group when they're stronger.

If the frog continues to drop weight I'd get a fecal done at the very least and look into a qualified vet.


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## Indigocyan (11 mo ago)

As an update to anyone curious; I just saw him eating while getting all the lights, so I’m feeling confident he’ll pull through on his own in time. Thanks again everyone for your help and advice.


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