# Collection wiped out by wc frogs!! Really?



## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

In another thread, way down, I asked if anyone has had their collection wiped out by bring wc frogs into it, or personally knows of someone this has happened to. I've heard this as a vague fear for years - heard that its happened, but it never first hand knowledge. Its always I heard this from someone else. That's a good way to pass knowledge, but in this case I think it might be passing on fiction. I'd really like to talk from someone this has happened to and to try and figure out why. Better husbandry through knowledge and experience. 

Best,

Chuck


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

I have only been keeping frogs for the last 5 years but I remember reading those kind of stories, maybe on this board. I have never heard them from another keeper not even second hand. 

Loss of collections due to weather/temperature control I have heard of more then once.

Sally


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

See the comments here 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...t-wild-collected-tinctorius-7.html#post590940

Ed


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

The thread with the wc warning is I believe the thread chuck was referring to and that he posted in. 
I have not heard of anyone specifically. Personally as organisms we are in symbiotic relationships with bacteria etc. My thought though is what is the effect individuals are having going too far and over treating? Basically sterilizing and trying to kill everything?
Also the possible danger I could see with untreated wc would be introducing chytrid. I do know someone that did get frogs with chytrid a few years back. They have a large collection and still do. They lost a few frogs, not am entire collection. A few frogs were impacted not their collection.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

I have many years experience in Reptiles and Amphibians, obviously including Darts, I have not myself or heard direct from others tales of mass casualties. I would think that if it did happen to someone it would really be due to lacking hygiene and isolation care. I have had personal experience with Cobalts and Powder Blue tincs that I received as adults alive and breeding at 12 plus years, Being adults when I got them really says something of the potential long life of these frogs.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Didn't Hextangz from Germany have that happen?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

billschwinn said:


> I have many years experience in Reptiles and Amphibians, obviously including Darts, I have not myself or heard direct from others tales of mass casualties. I would think that if it did happen to someone it would really be due to lacking hygiene and isolation care. I have had personal experience with Cobalts and Powder Blue tincs that I received as adults alive and breeding at 12 plus years, Being adults when I got them really says something of the potential long life of these frogs.


 
A friend of mine lost most of his snake collection to a paramyxo outbreak back in the late 1980s. One of the reasons I'm running the local 4-H herp club is because the previous person lost his boids to inclusion body disease. At a zoo I'm familar with they lost large portion of thier collection to a cryprosporidia outbreak in the early 1990s.. When I met Roger Conant before his death, he relayed how a collection he worked with was decimated by ameobiasis and the Steinhart aquarium had a ameobiasis problem with some of thier enclosures as documented here Reptilian amoebiasis - NAPOLITANO - 2007 - International Zoo Yearbook - Wiley Online Library so there are some good records of problems. 
Some outbreaks can be controlled with good hygiene but some like paramyxo are also airborn. see for example JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

With respect to amphibians, small feeder insects can transport pathogens from one enclosure to another which is why animals for repatriation are supposed to housed in different buildings with some level of biosecurity....


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

evolvstll said:


> I do know someone that did get frogs with chytrid a few years back. They have a large collection and still do. They lost a few frogs, not am entire collection. A few frogs were impacted not their collection.


I received frogs with chytrid last year, a _Megophrys nasuta_ and a group of _Agalychnis callidryas_. I lost two of the red eyes, I was out of town at the time they began to show symptoms and my girlfriend was not familiar enough with them to recognize what was happening. When I returned I successfully treated them and all remaining frogs survived, including a female red eye that was in the late stages of the disease who made a full recovery. My existing collection was not infected. With proper quarantine chytrid is easily managed and poses little risk.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

The Staten Island Zoo once had the largest collection of rattlesnakes in the U.S. (a collection built over the career of Carl Caulfield). They had an outbreak of what think I believe was an enteritis and loss essentially every snake in the collection.

I understand that they are trying to rebuild the collection in Carl's honor.

Richard.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

This is close to that scenario, years ago when I lived near Cincinnati I sold some frogs to guy named Larry Miller, after about 3 - 4 weeks he asked if I would buy them back as he could not care for so many animals (he was into a bunch of stuff), these were CB Yellowbacks. I took them back and put them back into the tank they had been in, within 2 weeks I watched every tank I had go down...WC Azureus, Histo's...in all about 15 tanks worth of stuff. I called larry and asked him had he lost any frogs recently and said he had lost an entire group of WC Auratus he had got from Strictly and that was the tank he had put my frogs in...he did not clean the tank and he did not tell me this had happened. Needless to say I was beyond pissed and I don't believe I ever talked to Larry after that, so has a collection been wiped out by WC frogs, indirectly I would say yes in my case.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Ed said:


> A friend of mine lost most of his snake collection to a paramyxo outbreak back in the late 1980s. One of the reasons I'm running the local 4-H herp club is because the previous person lost his boids to inclusion body disease. At a zoo I'm familar with they lost large portion of thier collection to a cryprosporidia outbreak in the early 1990s.. When I met Roger Conant before his death, he relayed how a collection he worked with was decimated by ameobiasis and the Steinhart aquarium had a ameobiasis problem with some of thier enclosures as documented here Reptilian amoebiasis - NAPOLITANO - 2007 - International Zoo Yearbook - Wiley Online Library so there are some good records of problems.
> Some outbreaks can be controlled with good hygiene but some like paramyxo are also airborn. see for example JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
> 
> With respect to amphibians, small feeder insects can transport pathogens from one enclosure to another which is why animals for repatriation are supposed to housed in different buildings with some level of biosecurity....


Hey Ed, In regards to Snakes, yes I remember the 80's and maybe early 90's being full of cases of Crypto and Paramyxo,and am familiar with their spread. I have not heard of any of those two pathogens becoming problematic in regards to frogs or frog collections though, which is why I would not have thought it to be relevant to this topic. Bill


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

In post number 3 above I posted a link to mass mortalities of anurans documented in the literature.. if interested we can also look at mass mortality events that occur in the wild, but I'm not sure there is any real value in it. 

The best message that I think is coming from this thread is that a quarantine process should be followed when aquiring new animals from any source (whether it is wc or not). 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

billschwinn said:


> Hey Ed, In regards to Snakes, yes I remember the 80's and maybe early 90's being full of cases of Crypto and Paramyxo,and am familiar with their spread. I have not heard of any of those two pathogens becoming problematic in regards to frogs or frog collections though, which is why I would not have thought it to be relevant to this topic. Bill


Hi Bill, 

I referenced them as there are documented mass mortality events in institutional collections where quarantine and other protective measures are mandatory. Even in well controlled zoo collections it is now common to request blood antigen tests for paramyxo virus in susceptiable snakes before shipment to a new institution along with two more during quarantine (quarantine for rattlesnakes often exceeds 90 days due to paramyxovirus). If we see analagous outbreaks in institutions, then we should be aware that they can occur in home collections.... 

We also have an analagous virus in amphibians, specifically those in the ranavirus group of iridoviruses. Some of these are able to infect a wide variety of hosts and even jump taxa see for example Experimental Transmission and Induction of Ranaviral Disease in Western Ornate Box Turtles (Terrapene ornata ornata) and Red-Eared Sliders (Trachemys scripta elegans).. others like the tiger salamander viruses can result in animals that are asymptomatic carriers allowing for infection year after year (see for example http://www.esf.edu/efb/brunner/pdfs/CollinsEtAl2004-ModelSystem.pdf )

This is also an indication of why we should be concerned.... http://www-lbtest.jcu.edu.au/school/phtm/PHTM/frogs/papers/green-2002.pdf 

Ed


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## mllaursen (Jan 31, 2011)

I lost all of my collection to chytrid about two years ago but it was from cb D. truncatus. I managed to "cure" 5 azureus with lamisil but they never really went back to eating well and ended up wasting away. weather they're captive or wild quarantine is key. I usually am fairly cautious but these came from a source I have known for years and I got lazy.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

... and here is the answer that I was looking for that I asked you on your thread, so never mind. 

s


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

markpulawski said:


> This is close to that scenario, years ago when I lived near Cincinnati I sold some frogs to guy named Larry Miller, after about 3 - 4 weeks he asked if I would buy them back as he could not care for so many animals (he was into a bunch of stuff), these were CB Yellowbacks. I took them back and put them back into the tank they had been in, within 2 weeks I watched every tank I had go down...WC Azureus, Histo's...in all about 15 tanks worth of stuff. I called larry and asked him had he lost any frogs recently and said he had lost an entire group of WC Auratus he had got from Strictly and that was the tank he had put my frogs in...he did not clean the tank and he did not tell me this had happened. Needless to say I was beyond pissed and I don't believe I ever talked to Larry after that, so has a collection been wiped out by WC frogs, indirectly I would say yes in my case.


While I think I probably would have done the same thing in this situation, I do think this is a great reminder for the need of proper quarantine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that if proper quarantine and sanitation when working between tanks is implemented stories like this simply shouldn't exist.

It's a great reminder for me as I am getting new frogs here in the next few weeks.... I don't usually like rules of thumb in this hobby but I _do_ think a great one is: always quarantine new frogs.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> While I think I probably would have done the same thing in this situation, I do think this is a great reminder for the need of proper quarantine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that if proper quarantine and sanitation when working between tanks is implemented stories like this simply shouldn't exist.
> 
> It's a great reminder for me as I am getting new frogs here in the next few weeks.... I don't usually like rules of thumb in this hobby but I _do_ think a great one is: always quarantine new frogs.


I totally agree and implement that in my growing collection. I think even in Marks case shows once the frogs leave your collection and out of your hands and husbandry practices, that if they were to return to your collection you should treat them as "new" frogs and return them to QT even if you trust the person that they had gone to.....From Marks post I think I just added another level of security. Cause I am sure I might have done the same thing without thinking about the consequences like Mark suffered.....Good point to ponder.


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## Ben Wehr (Jan 23, 2011)

When was new to the hobby I bought an adult auratus soon to find out that it was WC/FR. At some point I transitioned this frog into different tanks and w/o cleaning put other frogs in them afterwards and past on intestinal parasites. a couple frogs died bc I put infected frogs back into other vivs with healthy ones. I eventually cross contaminated everything and lost them all. 

I can't see how with isolation and proper husbandry that this would have happened. The only logical way a whole collection could be wiped would be air borne virus or fungal spores. if you clean tools, hands and anything exposed to other frogs and vivs than I just can't think of how other frogs could be infected with anything.

It pays to live by other peoples knowledge and experience and can cost greatly to live by your own.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I've had 2 'events' in my career.....

One about 6-7 years ago, in a 'bank' of vivs [about 16] that were all situated together on one wall, the entire collection of pumilio purchased from a well know FLA breeder died. There was some influx into the 20 + pumilio collection though, from some matched animals from the same source that I added from a NY hobbyist to create proper pairings. Anyway, they all perished and I had to resort to pulling all the vivs apart and bleaching them outside. PITA. Ultimately they stood dry for a year b/f I reclaimed them. 

the second event about 2 years ago. I had been housing 3 of the most beautiful canary yellow Rio Guaramo WC/FR females I had [and still have] ever seen, for over a year....waiting for the 'perfect' male to come around. Well, a friend in FLA sent me a WC/FR new imported male from SR [he had housed it in QT at his store/shop in FLA for some weeks and 'treated' for typical intestinal and bacterial pathogens prophylacticly. Well within a week of his arrival I had eggs everywhere, then the frogs died, all 4 within days. !

Again, another tank that got the 'bomb' treatment... ;-(

Now, lets talk Ranavirus more. Who tests for it? what do we know about prevalence in the hobby? is it fatal? visible? PCR testing only? any treatment? Are we at all worried??

Ed?

In both my cases frogs were from FLA/Panama imports, I jumped the gun and added them to established groups/tanks, and I lost them all quickly necessitating drastic sterilization measures.

And here we are again, with a multitude of pumilio imports coming into FLA and a big 'buzz' about them in the hobby. So much so that Ive been told 1300 frogs have moved into collections across the USA in the past 2 imports from Panama alone.

Shawn


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Great timely bump Shawn.
I test for ranavirus for all new additions plus strict QT practices.
We need more discussions on ranavirus, IMO many do not add this to their QT procedures.

This is a good start plus can be watched via U-Tube a link is on the page.

2011 Ranavirus Symposium

Beth


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Bcs TX said:


> Great timely bump Shawn.
> I test for ranavirus for all new additions plus strict QT practices.
> We need more discussions on ranavirus, IMO many do not add this to their QT procedures.
> 
> ...


Beth I understand Ranavirus may be prevalent in a lot of collections and you may never know you have it unless you test. I assume it must not be fatal, can you give us some info as to what happens with this virus in layman's terms?


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

so when one does get "new" frogs what type of "medicine" should be given them. and how easy is it to get them. 

*this could be moved in another thread if you people wish to*


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

pa.walt said:


> so when one does get "new" frogs what type of "medicine" should be given them. and how easy is it to get them.
> 
> *this could be moved in another thread if you people wish to*


The first thing you want to do is swab them and have them tested for both ranavirus and chytrid.

I use this company Research Associates Laboratory, Inc. at vetdna.com


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## nonliteral (Mar 26, 2012)

Bcs TX said:


> Great timely bump Shawn.
> I test for ranavirus for all new additions plus strict QT practices.
> We need more discussions on ranavirus, IMO many do not add this to their QT procedures.
> 
> ...


Interesting link - thanks!

Not to derail, but (looking at some of the material on that site re: FV3 ranavirus in fish) from a practical hobby husbandry standpoint, is there anything special that those of us who are also aquarium keepers need to be concerned with regarding contamination risks to our frogs? (I have no idea whether I've ever had fish with ranavirus; I do know that I've had fish with lymphocystis, a related virus).


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pa.walt said:


> so when one does get "new" frogs what type of "medicine" should be given them. and how easy is it to get them.
> 
> *this could be moved in another thread if you people wish to*


If they are infected with Ranavirus, there isn't any treatment. Adults can be asymptomatic carriers but the virus can be very lethal to tadpoles and metamorphing froglets. (If I remember off hand, there is one documented strain that kills post metamorphic frogs). That strain is endemic to regions of Europe. 

One of the more important things to consider is that if you have invertebrates that can move from one enclosure to another (fruit flies, fungus gnats for example) then they can literally carry it into uninfected enclosures. 

Ed


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

When you were still working at the zoo, what precautionary measures did they take and were they actively testing for it?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> When you were still working at the zoo, what precautionary measures did they take and were they actively testing for it?


 
All amphibians underwent a 30 day, 3 clean fecals whichever is longer quarantine. All quarantine amphibians were housed in a seperate building across the grounds, and were only allowed to be serviced after all other collection animals had been cared for, and typically the person working quarantine did not return to the building that day. If a person had to return to the building, then showers and a change of clothing were mandatory. All animals were evaluated by the vets on entry into quarantine, and before being released from quarantine. Testing was conducted for animals that were of high risk populations (aquired from the wild, or the public) for chytrid, and ranavirus. Testing before shipment was required for amphibians coming from other institutions. All deaths were necropsied. 

Ed


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Ed said:


> All amphibians underwent a 30 day, 3 clean fecals whichever is longer quarantine. All quarantine amphibians were housed in a seperate building across the grounds, and were only allowed to be serviced after all other collection animals had been cared for, and typically the person working quarantine did not return to the building that day. If a person had to return to the building, then showers and a change of clothing were mandatory. All animals were evaluated by the vets on entry into quarantine, and before being released from quarantine. Testing was conducted for animals that were of high risk populations (aquired from the wild, or the public) for chytrid, and ranavirus. Testing before shipment was required for amphibians coming from other institutions. All deaths were necropsied.
> 
> Ed


So, can I get a zoo crew to come stay at my house for a month?


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

OK so let's say that we QT and after testing find some frogs have Ranavirus, what is the best thing to do with the frogs? There is no cure correct? Is it a situation that they should be euthanized to protect the frogs in the rest of the collection? I have read most of this thread and haven't read anything about what to do once you find frogs infected with it.

Some clarification would be great.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

jeeperrs said:


> So, can I get a zoo crew to come stay at my house for a month?


 
It would cost a lot of beer and pizza ontop of everything else... 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Azurel said:


> OK so let's say that we QT and after testing find some frogs have Ranavirus, what is the best thing to do with the frogs? There is no cure correct? Is it a situation that they should be euthanized to protect the frogs in the rest of the collection? I have read most of this thread and haven't read anything about what to do once you find frogs infected with it.
> 
> Some clarification would be great.


It depends on the strain. It is possible to get a local strain (there are several that are endemic to the USA (for example check out this free access http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/publications/herprev40_316_319.pdf) including infecting amphibians with no aquatic lifestages. (a reference for the SE USA can be found here (free access) http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/SEPARC/SEPARCRanavirusesFinal.pdf) It is also a risk for introducing a strain into the local population which is currently theorized to be part of the emerging incidences (and there are multiple theoretical origins at this point ranging from translocation from fish bait or contaminated gear, jumping species (for example large mouth bath virus is fairly closely related). 
At this point, it does not appear to be passed along vertically so with care, you could rear negative froglets from positive adults (more tricky with obligates). A good start would be to remove the eggs from the jelly mass and rearing the tadpoles in quarantine until tested and cleared. 

In reality, people have to realize the risks of getting something like this in thier collection. The risks are going to be larger for those aquiring stock from importers and dealers (captive bred, imported or wild caught) since the conditions often found in those companies give the greatest risk of cross infection (escaped contaminated feeders, insufficient quarantine, poor hygiene between cages and/or occupants). It is also a bigger risk for those who collect or use collected feeders (termites, meadow plankton), collected live mosses, purchase plants that were housed in with other herps (since it can be found in non-amphibian herps (see for example http://fwf.ag.utk.edu/mgray/ranavirus/2011Symposium/Allender.pdf).... 
With some simple precautions, it can be contained in the collection (double bag all trash, disinfect all waste water just like chytrid), good hygiene between cages, tight cages to prevent insects from escaping or entering the cages, and importantly, quarantine... Quarantine should be in a seperate room, and use different tools with no cross transfer from the areas until the animals are cleared. Technically, if you have animals in quarantine and you add other animals to that room, you reset the timelines for leaving quarantine since there is a risk of the newer animals infecting the older. 

back to the original question, it all depends on the strain, and whether or not your willing to make the effort to produce ranavirus free animals or not.... 

Some comments,

Ed


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks Ed always informative and enlightening.....I will have to check out some of your links you provided.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I have 20+ infected frogs in my collection. They were from a US import from last November and I'm 99.9% sure of that. They are in isolation two floors from the rest of my frogs. Separate shoes are used to enter the room and disposable gloves are used. Separate feeders are used as well. Nothing comes out of the room that isn't sterilized or double bagged. When I first discovered that I have the virus in my collection I was in total panic mode and was prepared to euthanize all the frogs. After multiple conversations with Ed and people from all across North America and the UK I decided to keep them. I've read so much about this virus it makes my head hurt! Bottom line is in my case. The frogs are doing fine. I see no ill effects from the virus, so far. The strain has not been identified as of yet. I have two pairs breeding and they are not passing the virus onto the offspring. These are all Tincs and Auratus. I'm not where I want to be yet. The goal is do set up and house each frog individually in 10g tanks except for two breeding pairs and study them long term with the help of others. 

Best


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Something I haven't seen mentioned, yet, is the danger that WC frogs may get the frogger sick. Especially if they are housed with other WC animals where cross contamination can occur, either during collection, at the importer's establishment, or while housed by the wholesale buyer.

So, in addition to keeping your collection safe, take precautions for yourselves, too.


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## andry (Jun 15, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> I have 20+ infected frogs in my collection. They were from a US import from last November and I'm 99.9% sure of that. They are in isolation two floors from the rest of my frogs. Separate shoes are used to enter the room and disposable gloves are used. Separate feeders are used as well. Nothing comes out of the room that isn't sterilized or double bagged. When I first discovered that I have the virus in my collection I was in total panic mode and was prepared to euthanize all the frogs. After multiple conversations with Ed and people from all across North America and the UK I decided to keep them. I've read so much about this virus it makes my head hurt! Bottom line is in my case. The frogs are doing fine. I see no ill effects from the virus, so far. The strain has not been identified as of yet. I have two pairs breeding and they are not passing the virus onto the offspring. These are all Tincs and Auratus. I'm not where I want to be yet. The goal is do set up and house each frog individually in 10g tanks except for two breeding pairs and study them long term with the help of others.
> 
> Best


What are the symptoms you are seeing? How did you come to realize your frogs were infected with something? If you don't mind me asking.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogface said:


> Something I haven't seen mentioned, yet, is the danger that WC frogs may get the frogger sick. Especially if they are housed with other WC animals where cross contamination can occur, either during collection, at the importer's establishment, or while housed by the wholesale buyer.
> 
> So, in addition to keeping your collection safe, take precautions for yourselves, too.


This should actually be consistent good practice since amphibians are known to have a number of bacteria and other pathogens that can infect people (another reason I try to keep fruit flies out of my drinks). A short list would have Mycobacterium marinum, Salmonella, and Aeromonas.... 

Ed


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## IHeartFrogs (May 8, 2012)

Someone say beer and pizza?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ed said:


> This should actually be consistent good practice since amphibians are known to have a number of bacteria and other pathogens that can infect people (another reason I try to keep fruit flies out of my drinks). A short list would have Mycobacterium marinum, Salmonella, and Aeromonas....
> 
> Ed


Well, yes, there are the expected bacteria and pathogens. And then there are the unexpected


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

andry said:


> What are the symptoms you are seeing? How did you come to realize your frogs were infected with something? If you don't mind me asking.


I'm not seeing any symptoms at the moment. I had a friend have some frogs break out in lesions and die. It was suggested that it was ranavirus, so I started testing my own. I soon came to realize that I had multiple tanks that were infected. I feed my collection in banks and if I hadn't done that I probably would have an entire collection infected. The infected frogs were moved to isolation and the frog room was disinfected using Nolvasan.

EDIT: I been asked where the frogs came from. I don't think it would be fair to the person I purchased them from to say. There still is a chance that it could have been from contaminated soil, plants, etc. on my end. Bottom line is, when you receive frogs they should be tested as soon as you open the cup to be sure they are free of the virus. Another test 7 days later while in QT. I got sloppy and it won't happen again!


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## mikeknife666 (Dec 14, 2011)

Once had 4 whites dumpy tree frogs healyhy as all hell.Came home one night found 2 grey tree frogs,threw em in my tank all was good for bout a week.Suddenly all whites started dying one by one .only to be left w 2 wc grey treefrogs.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

mikeknife666 said:


> Once had 4 whites dumpy tree frogs healyhy as all hell.Came home one night found 2 grey tree frogs,threw em in my tank all was good for bout a week.Suddenly all whites started dying one by one .only to be left w 2 wc grey treefrogs.


That is from the toxins in gray tree frogs. The same things happens if you are road cruising in the spring catching frogs. If you put grays in with something else, chances are it will be dead when you get home. Also, don't wipe your face or eyes after holding a gray tree frog. Doesn't feel good...


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Ed said:


> (escaped contaminated feeders, insufficient quarantine, poor hygiene between cages and/or occupants).


so then free range geckos in a frog room could potentially spread disease to all your frogs?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

goof901 said:


> so then free range geckos in a frog room could potentially spread disease to all your frogs?


Or the free range fruit flies that the free ranged geckos are supposed to fix..... 
Poor hygiene is poor hygiene... 

Ed


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

So to bring us back on tropic - no one has had their collection destroyed. There have been some partial collection collapses, but even those haven't been traced back to importation of wc frogs or even frogs from other collections. Admittedly there is a chance of introducing something into your collection, but with proper hygiene and quarantine the risk should be greatly reduced. Any arguments?

Best,

Chuck


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

chuckpowell said:


> So to bring us back on tropic - no one has had their collection destroyed. There have been some partial collection collapses, but even those haven't been traced back to importation of wc frogs or even frogs from other collections. Admittedly there is a chance of introducing something into your collection, but with proper hygiene and quarantine the risk should be greatly reduced. Any arguments?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chuck


Chuck,
Posts 10 and 14 sounds like their collections were destroyed.


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

I stand corrected, but it sounds like neither quarantined their new frogs. 

Best,

Chuck


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