# Male doesn't call anymore?



## lookitsadam (Jul 1, 2013)

I have a Basti pair and my male hasn't called in probably three weeks. Their tank is right on my desk that I'm always working at so I would hear even the slightest call from him.
Humidity and temp have stayed the same and nothing else in the tank has changed. He's not shy and is always out in front or climbing around on all the broms. I haven't seen eggs or found a tad anywhere, but even if I did I would assume he would still call to lead the female to feed them right?
Today I did notice the female following him around a lot more than she normally does though, despite him not calling. So I have no clue.
I feed them every other day and he's been eating fine. Not skinny by any means but he has room to get fatter.

Anybody know what could be going on?


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## cml1287 (Mar 29, 2012)

I've noticed mine quiet down a bit when they do have eggs or tadpoles in the water. If the female is following him around, you may just have a surprise in store.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Maybe "he's lost that luvin feelin"


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

lookitsadam said:


> I would assume he would still call to lead the female to feed them right?



Except that the male does not call to lead the female to the tadpoles. He doesn't place them or have anything to do with them once they hatch... That is a myth passed around in the hobby. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## lookitsadam (Jul 1, 2013)

I thought the male pums were the ones that transport the tads?

Anywho they do like to hand out in a cork round sometimes which I can't see in to, so possibly they laid eggs in there? No sign of any tads in the broms or film canisters though so it seems odd that he would just stop calling all of a sudden.



Ed said:


> Except that the male does not call to lead the female to the tadpoles. He doesn't place them or have anything to do with them once they hatch... That is a myth passed around in the hobby.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Adam they will lay eggs in the leaf litter or on a brom leaf, sometimes you see them sometimes you don't and even the most experienced froggers are surprised to find froglets in a tank where they didn't even know a clutch was laid. I assume the frog you got from me has turned into the female we both hoped it was? I would think after several weeks in her new tank she has fattened up some and following the male around is a really good sign. Many times the male will stop calling for a while after tads have been transported, if he stays silent for a few weeks then starts calling up a storm look for froglets to emerge from your broms. It usually takes 50 - 60 days for tads to turn into frogs, then the cycle usually begins again.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

lookitsadam said:


> I thought the male pums were the ones that transport the tads?


No. The females transport the tadpoles and they can be placed far from where the male has his calling territory. In the studies on wild frogs, movement of a tadpole by as little as an inch resulted in it no longer being cared for.... 

There is a lot of literature on this topic. If you have access to the journals, this one will get you started Female activity patterns and aggressiveness in the strawberry poison frog Dendrobates pumilio (Anura: Dendrobatidae)  »  Brill Online 

Some comments 

Ed


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## TheCoon (Feb 8, 2011)

I have personally witnessed both male and female pumilio transporting tadpoles.
Edit: In captivity**


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

TheCoon said:


> I have personally witnessed both male and female pumilio transporting tadpoles.
> Edit: In captivity**


Aberrant behaviors are well established for multiple taxa under captive conditions..... This does not mean that 
1) the female will feed the tadpole since she didn't place it (in fact in studies moving the tadpoles as much as 1 inch from where they were placed resulted in the tadpole being abandoned to starve) 
2) that it supports the OP's belief that the male calls the female to feed the tadpoles

If we look into the behavior of pumilio tadpoles we can see that they will approach and beg from any adult pumilio that approaches their deposition sites so it really isn't much of a stretch to think that one can incorrectly end up on a male. Unlike the female, the male isn't going to evaluate depositions sites for viability and the tadpole will end up where ever the male chooses to enter water which unless another tadpole is present that was placed by the female to be ignored by the female. 

See Stynoski, Jennifer L., and Virginia R. Noble. "To beg or to freeze: multimodal sensory integration directs behavior in a tadpole." Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology 66.2 (2012): 191-199. This article can be obtained for free via a google search. 

With respect to feeding and abandonment see Stynoski, Jennifer L. "Discrimination of offspring by indirect recognition in an egg-feeding dendrobatid frog,< i> Oophaga pumilio</i>." Animal Behaviour 78.6 (2009): 1351-1356. Also available for free via a google search. 

Aberrant behaviors are something we should not be encouraging and often indicate that the husbandry is causing some issues with the animals... In these cases the aberration is typically due to the fact that conditions are forcing females into reproductive cycles that are not typical for the species and thus result in things like males accidentally carrying tadpoles. Normal behavior is that the females do not lay clutches for fertilization when feeding tadpoles.... 

See Haase, A., Prohl, H. (2002) Female activity patterns and aggressiveness in the strawberry poison frog Dendrobates pumilio (Anura: Dendrobatidae). Amphibia-Reptilia , 23(2):129-140

"We observed that tadpole-rearing and mating activity are mutually exclusive behavioural states in a Costa Rican population. Tadpole-rearing females did not engage in courtship activity. Only non-rearing females courted. Non-rearing females occupied larger home ranges than tadpole-rearing females, which may be related to female selection of mates. For the first time aggressive female-female interactions were observed in the field. Tadpole-rearing females were significantly more aggressive than non-rearing females, especially in the vicinity of their offspring-rearing sites."

Some comments 

Ed


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## lookitsadam (Jul 1, 2013)

I still haven't heard him call since I first posted this. 
Him and the female hang out together but I haven't seen anything between them. I've even tried playing a recording of a call but it just perks his attention and he doesn't call back.

Suggestions anybody?


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## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

Maybe he's just not feeling sexy. Some species of my frogs take a break from a calling for a bit, and then pick it back up when they deem the time is right. 

I would just be sure to feed heavily, and mist often in hopes it might get him in the in mood.


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## Tropicaldarts (Sep 12, 2013)

Funny mine stopped calling as well, but I think my female is gone can't seem to find her.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Ed...as someone who knows nothing about tadpoles and what all is involved in the process...I really appreciate your post. I had asked, but it never got posted as a new thread...who picks the place to lay the eggs??


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The male picks the spot and the female can accept or reject it. If she rejects it, they move to the next spot. 

Some comments 

Ed


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