# Saf-T-Paks



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

*Humm..... *

*Email I received. They are not easy to locate so I posted their contact info also.*

*----------------------------------*

*New Smaller 500 gram Saf-T-Temp� Controlled Room Temperature PCM Paks Now Available
* 
*Saf-T-Temp Controlled Room Temperature (CRT) PCM Paks are now available in a convenient 500 gram size to protect your valuable specimens or keep products from freezing during the cold winter months (as well as from overheating* *during the warm months).** 
* 
*The 500 gram Paks are perfectly sized for use in the popular small* *STP-309 shipping system, and may be used in any *other insulated shipper. </B>*Validated performance data sheets* *for* *the* *STT* *-521-500 Paks in the STP-309 are available from your Saf-T-Pak Territory Manager upon request.
* 
*Special Pricing Through March 31st
* 
*Place an order for two cases before* *March 31st and you will receive our* *volume purchase pricing (12% discount) on your order of the STT-521-500. Please call 1-800-814-7484 and mention **Special Purchase Code 5210209 to receive your special pricing.
* 
 *All Saf-T-Temp* *PCMs, CRT, Gel Paks and (-10�C) are now available in the new 500 gram size. So whether your* *temperature controlled requirements are for Controlled Room Temperature, Chilled or Frozen **� Saf-T-Pak has you covered.
* 
*Ordering information:
* 
*STT-521-500
Saf-T-Temp CRT PCM Paks, 500 gram
16/case
STT-410-500
Saf-T-Temp (-10�C) PCM Paks, 500 gram
16/case
STT-400-500
Saf-T-Temp Gel Paks, 500 gram
16/case

*Saf-T-Pak Inc.
1-800-814-7484 Orders
www.saftpak.com

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So I got this email today and it got me thinking about our old conversations about these PCM packs, and prior 'experiments' done here.

Anyone using these regularly and have some insight. 

I'm considering trying a case for winter shipping.

Shawn


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Reminds me of the old Thermos commercials...keeps hot things hot and cold things cold. If these did keep a shipping container at an even room temp through say...90+ ground conditions on your average F-L-A day and then the same when that package went to -50 at 38,000 feet I would be very impressed indeed. If I could see proof of that sign me up, did I see a price per piece listed? Any idea on price Shawn ball park? Or should I contact my territory manager.....


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I've been using them for two years now in both hot & cold weather. In fact I just shipped this box twice in the past month or so and in both cases the frogs arrived warm with no heat pack added to the box.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/36220-taking-advantage-cold-weather-brrr.html

I kind of like the regular size ones. They do add a little weight to the box but even if I ship this box cross country it's only $45 USPS Express Mail overnight.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

markpulawski said:


> Reminds me of the old Thermos commercials...keeps hot things hot and cold things cold. If these did keep a shipping container at an even room temp through say...90+ ground conditions on your average F-L-A day and then the same when that package went to -50 at 38,000 feet I would be very impressed indeed. If I could see proof of that sign me up, did I see a price per piece listed? Any idea on price Shawn ball park? Or should I contact my territory manager.....


We did uninsulated overnight shipped packages with a temp logger, and it showed that the cargo bays certainly do not see -50. The cargo bays are controlled to an extent.

The proof is out there, PCM's are the way to go.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Dancing frogs said:


> We did uninsulated overnight shipped packages with a temp logger, and it showed that the cargo bays certainly do not see -50. The cargo bays are controlled to an extent.
> 
> The proof is out there, PCM's are the way to go.


Yes cargo bays are supposed to be pressurized and cabin temps but if you shipped enough frogs you would know that sometimes they are exposed to extreme lows up in the air, either not sealed properly or some bays are not cabin temps if you have shipped enough frogs you have had a frozen shipment. In 20 years i have had maybe 3, 1 of which fully recovered (some of the first orange terribilis from the Boa Barn & Ron G). 1 containing Histo's and lehmanni in the 90's however, frozen and did not recover....I still remember that shipment.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I dont know if we should be more concerned about cargo bay temps, or back stock area temps, or concrete floors then stick the box on, or the back of a delivery truck, etc.

Gary,
Mind running your recent experiment again with an ambient temp thermometer, and a heat pack IN the box?


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

sports_doc said:


> Gary,
> Mind running your recent experiment again with an ambient temp thermometer, and a heat pack IN the box?


Well, believe it or not the temps here in the Buffalo, NY area have improved and are no longer F......ing freezing  So I'm not sure the results would mean as much.

A heat pack in my box with the frogs I think would actually be a bad thing. There almost really isn't enough space for a heat pack. I designed the box to just barely fit a few small containers for the frogs and then the two PCM gel packs. Which I actually think is why the PCM gel packs can do the job. There is no extra air space in the box that the gel packs need to try and keep warm. 

Heat packs when they're first activated would get much to warm for the frogs and I think the gel packs would tend to keep all that heat in the area where the frogs are and eventually kill them.

I do have a bigger version of this box to ship a number of frogs. It's an 18" cube. In that box there is some additional air space where a heat pack in the box works nicely along with the two gel packs.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

gary1218 said:


> ...A heat pack in my box with the frogs I think would actually be a bad thing. There almost really isn't enough space for a heat pack. I designed the box to just barely fit a few small containers for the frogs and then the two PCM gel packs. Which I actually think is why the PCM gel packs can do the job. There is no extra air space in the box that the gel packs need to try and keep warm.
> 
> Heat packs when they're first activated would get much to warm for the frogs and I think the gel packs would tend to keep all that heat in the area where the frogs are and eventually kill them.


These 30hr heat packs don't get as hot as the 40hr ones...
http://www.kensfish.com/shippingsupplies/30_hour_heatpack.jpg
I've used them with good success. They might be a better alternative. The PCMs should work to limit the hot end as well. Normally when shipping in winter, the PCM is first "conditioned" by heating it up so all of the material in the pack is in the gel/liquid phase. It holds it's temp while it coverts back to a solid. Assuming you could make it fit, you should be able to use a heat pack, along with a partially conditioned PCM. It should hold it's temp as the heat pack converts the remaining PCM solids to a liquid. It would in effect extend the shipping time. I'm thinking the heat pack would go to the outside of the PCM.

Anyway, it maybe worthy of a test or two.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

THANKS for the info Eric.

What about heat packs needing a constant oxygen supply to work properly? In the small space I have I would think the oxygen would get used up quickly.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

gary1218 said:


> THANKS for the info Eric.
> 
> What about heat packs needing a constant oxygen supply to work properly? In the small space I have I would think the oxygen would get used up quickly.


Yea, I've heard that as a concern but haven't heard about any cases of shipping deaths that were reliably related to it. Most people who have the concern put the heat packs outside of the styrofoam inner core. Either way, I personally don't seal the shipping box to be airtight anyway. It makes for an interesting test though. I don't have anything that could measure O2 levels over time or I'd do the test. I'll try some googling to see what's out there on it.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

THANKS Eric


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