# Leuc egg canal to small to pass eggs



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

So yesterday was the first day my pair of leucs started breeding again. Unfortunately Before winter hit they were laying jelly. Spring comes around and they are doing the same thing. I think my female leuc has a problem and I really wish she didnt as she was my first dart frog. She had laid 1 egg before and that was it. I e-mailed josh from joshs frogs and he asked questions and I told him I dust 2x's a week with herp, rep cal, and repashy calcium plus ICB. He said I was doing everything right, and suggested she is having a hard time passing eggs.

Now does anyone think this would cause problems for her later down the road being full of eggs? I would really like to send her to a good home for free so I can purchase another female for my male.


----------



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

If she is infact having a problem passing eggs, you could have a problem down the road. If she cant pass eggs then she will become quite bloated, and can die. How large/fat is she right now? It would be very helpful if you can post a picture or two of her so we can take a look at her.


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

Well this was from when they first started breeding whenever I see here come out I will get some more pics. The male is calling again so she should be out soon.

MVI_0979.mp4 video by smilexelectric - Photobucket

Ignore the sound.


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

Tried to take a video with phone but it looks like crap, so I took out the 30d and my battery was dead. So the battery is charging.


----------



## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

I have a group of leucs, 1.4 that were doing the same thing. I had added 2-1 year olds to a group of 3-5year old females. One of the younger frogs ended up being a male and finally came of age and began calling. The female's have always been very dominant/submissive with each other. I then began finding jelly masses with no eggs in them, however there were white membranes where the eggs should have been. I finally watched a clutch being laid that actually did have eggs. 10 minutes later, the eggs were gone. Now, as soon as I see eggs, I keep an eye on them and make sure the male fertilizes them, and then pull them immediately.

If you have multiple females, i'd guess that you have egg eating going on. I am now working on splitting down my group into maybe a 1.2 or adding a few males (they are in a 75 gallon, so I have moderate space for each frog).


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

Mantellaprince20 said:


> I have a group of leucs, 1.4 that were doing the same thing. I had added 2-1 year olds to a group of 3-5year old females. One of the younger frogs ended up being a male and finally came of age and began calling. The female's have always been very dominant/submissive with each other. I then began finding jelly masses with no eggs in them, however there were white membranes where the eggs should have been. I finally watched a clutch being laid that actually did have eggs. 10 minutes later, the eggs were gone. Now, as soon as I see eggs, I keep an eye on them and make sure the male fertilizes them, and then pull them immediately.
> 
> If you have multiple females, i'd guess that you have egg eating going on. I am now working on splitting down my group into maybe a 1.2 or adding a few males (they are in a 75 gallon, so I have moderate space for each frog).


Unfortunately its a male and a female and thats it. I had six and weeded out a pair and then sold the rest.


----------



## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I would also make sure that there isn't an issue with snails or slugs. I have two tanks with slugs and I have to be very careful to take the eggs out as soon as they are laid.

Richard.


----------



## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

Snails and slugs eating frog eggs?? Wow. Just another reason to hate those little boogers.


----------



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yep, they eat eggs, eat and destroy plants, they just suck...


pnwpdf said:


> Snails and slugs eating frog eggs?? Wow. Just another reason to hate those little boogers.


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

I have not seen a snail or slug in the tank.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Just to be clear.. frogs unlike mammals and birds, don't have to worry about oviducts being too small to pass the eggs unless something like a tumor is blocking the passage (but you would have to have both ovaries blocked)... If she is passing jelly, then you know that she shouldn't have retained eggs as the jelly is formed pretty high up in the reproductive tract.


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

Im at a complete loss, I dont know what the heck is going on then.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Have you tried cycling them down by drying them out a little and cutting back on feedings and then cycle them back up again?


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

I rarely mist, and feed two times a week. I let them do their own thing. But when I do mist I mist heavily.


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

Sorry guys forgot pictures, here she is. She's beautiful.




































These were takin with a Canon 30d


----------



## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

She's a very pretty frog with good body weight. She doesn't look at all "egg-bound", so I think it is a matter of time before she produces good eggs.

Also, slugs and snails can be present in small numbers without being noticed.

If you hear the male calling and find them courting, watch them carefully and look inside the coco-hut as soon as they leave it. This is the best chance to find eggs before anything else happens to them.

Good luck, Richard.


----------



## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

I have had a few females over the years that bred with no eggs produced, some after time and several failed breedings begin to produce again, others do not, some on rare occasion go through normal nesting patterns with no eggs produced but getting fatter with each breeding until they eventually die very fat. In my mind maybe there was a rupture that let the eggs free in the body cavity. Bill


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

Woodsman said:


> She's a very pretty frog with good body weight. She doesn't look at all "egg-bound", so I think it is a matter of time before she produces good eggs.
> 
> Also, slugs and snails can be present in small numbers without being noticed.
> 
> ...


It takes them all day before they finally pick a spot, and I usually do check a couple hours later and she is still in hut, she leaves I go in and check and their is just jelly. Im sure it would take time for snails to devour the eggs.


----------



## kylesmoney (Mar 29, 2010)

smilexelectric said:


> It takes them all day before they finally pick a spot, and I usually do check a couple hours later and she is still in hut, she leaves I go in and check and their is just jelly. Im sure it would take time for snails to devour the eggs.


Could she be eating her own eggs? Maybe you should interrupt her one day?


----------



## smilexelectric (Mar 14, 2009)

I talked to Josh from Josh's Frogs and he said he has never heard of any instances of eating own eggs but other females eating eggs.


----------



## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Correct, evolution would have long ago selected against female frogs that eat their own eggs!

Don't worry, she'll come around. Richard.



smilexelectric said:


> I talked to Josh from Josh's Frogs and he said he has never heard of any instances of eating own eggs but other females eating eggs.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Woodsman said:


> Correct, evolution would have long ago selected against female frogs that eat their own eggs!
> 
> Don't worry, she'll come around. Richard.


 
Except that pulling eggs removes any pressure to keep that behavior and in many animals abnormal parental behaviors occur in captive populatons. As an example, some of the Micronesian kingfishers in AZA breeding programs either eat thier own eggs or eat the hatchlings as they emerge (females do this).... 

We can easily posit a loss of parental behaviors in dart frogs due to artificial rearing...


----------

