# water



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

is it okay to put like little bowls of water in your frogs tank? and if so like how high can the water level be? also could you put a little water bowl in a baby frogglet's tank? he is only like 5 weeks out of the water. if so how high can the water level be for him?


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## MattySF (May 25, 2005)

What is your goal with your water bowls?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

MattySF said:


> What is your goal with your water bowls?


i dont know... i have heard that a lot of people use them and that their frogs like it a lot. so i just wanted to make my frogs as happy as i can


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

I sometimes put little ketchup containers in my thumbs tanks, usually on the floor. They serve a similiar purpose as film canasters, I just use the ketchup ones because they are more clear and I can see if there's anything in there. Darts are not great swimmers so I would not do anything too deep.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

otis07 said:


> I sometimes put little ketchup containers in my thumbs tanks, usually on the floor. They serve a similiar purpose as film canasters, I just use the ketchup ones because they are more clear and I can see if there's anything in there. Darts are not great swimmers so I would not do anything too deep.


hmmm, i heard from someone that dart frogs can swin fairly good. also i thought dart frogs liked the water containers...its like the same thing as a pond but it a container


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Not really, their size doesn't help. They may be ok swimmers for their size, but they are tiny so even a big puddle could be a problem in the wild. What size water dish were you thinking? usually you don't see any size water dish in dendro tanks, they just don't require them. You could have some film canasters or an area where the gravel slopes down and has a little pool, that way they theres a gradient so they can get out more easily.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

otis07 said:


> Not really, their size doesn't help. They may be ok swimmers for their size, but they are tiny so even a big puddle could be a problem in the wild. What size water dish were you thinking? usually you don't see any size water dish in dendro tanks, they just don't require them. You could have some film canasters or an area where the gravel slopes down and has a little pool, that way they theres a gradient so they can get out more easily.


oh ok. well the thing is i am kinda new to this and i made a tank and it has just dirt with moss on the top, it doesnt have a false bottom or anything, and im not sure how to make a little pond in there


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

heatfreakk3 said:


> oh ok. well the thing is i am kinda new to this and i made a tank and it has just dirt with moss on the top, it doesnt have a false bottom or anything, and im not sure how to make a little pond in there


You don't need to have any experience to make a pond  Just take some gravel or leca or something and make a little slope and plop some ricca or java moss in there. I do this in most of my tanks, and you don't need a false bottom to do it, actually its easier to do this without one, the false bottom just gets in the way.

If you are looking for something else to decorate the bottom just add a few inches of leaf litter, its cheap, pretty and the frogs will feel alot more secure with the extra hiding spots. Oak or magnolia leaves work well for this, or any leaf that has a more oily texture. Just bake them for 30 min at 350F if you are getting them from outside.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

otis07 said:


> You don't need to have any experience to make a pond  Just take some gravel or leca or something and make a little slope and plop some ricca or java moss in there. I do this in most of my tanks, and you don't need a false bottom to do it, actually its easier to do this without one, the false bottom just gets in the way.
> 
> If you are looking for something else to decorate the bottom just add a few inches of leaf litter, its cheap, pretty and the frogs will feel alot more secure with the extra hiding spots. Oak or magnolia leaves work well for this, or any leaf that has a more oily texture. Just bake them for 30 min at 350F if you are getting them from outside.


alright thanks  so for the pond all i have to do is take some moss and dirt out and make a little hole and put gravel in? and how high of water do i put in? and also what is java moss?


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

heatfreakk3 said:


> alright thanks  so for the pond all i have to do is take some moss and dirt out and make a little hole and put gravel in? and how high of water do i put in? and also what is java moss?


I would not use dirt if you make a pond, it just fouls the water. Its fine if you use it in the rest of the tank, but by the "shoreline" its best to use just gravel, leca, or leaf litter. Just slowly level the amount of dirt off and make a little indent. 

Depth will depend on the species of frog, but in general just do its about the height of their throat if they are just sitting there. I have small pools in a few of my tanks, all about a cm in depth that the frogs just sit in, I have never seen them try to swim in it, although I have seen darts that do, but they just stay partially submerged. So I would not make it too deep at all, you really could just stick your finger in and make an indentation in the substrate layer, it doesn't need to be anything elaborate. 

Java moss is a moss that can be grown aquatically or terrestrially (in a very moist environment), just google it and you will probably recodnise it.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

heatfreakk3 said:


> oh ok. well the thing is i am kinda new to this and i made a tank and it has just dirt with moss on the top, it doesnt have a false bottom or anything, and im not sure how to make a little pond in there


is the dirt directly on the glass bottom of the tank, or is there something under the dirt?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

otis07 said:


> I would not use dirt if you make a pond, it just fouls the water. Its fine if you use it in the rest of the tank, but by the "shoreline" its best to use just gravel, leca, or leaf litter. Just slowly level the amount of dirt off and make a little indent.
> 
> Depth will depend on the species of frog, but in general just do its about the height of their throat if they are just sitting there. I have small pools in a few of my tanks, all about a cm in depth that the frogs just sit in, I have never seen them try to swim in it, although I have seen darts that do, but they just stay partially submerged. So I would not make it too deep at all, you really could just stick your finger in and make an indentation in the substrate layer, it doesn't need to be anything elaborate.
> 
> Java moss is a moss that can be grown aquatically or terrestrially (in a very moist environment), just google it and you will probably recodnise it.


ok cool, so i just take a little dirt out and fill it in with gravel?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> is the dirt directly on the glass bottom of the tank, or is there something under the dirt?


the dirt is directly o the glass chris, why?


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

heatfreakk3 said:


> the dirt is directly o the glass chris, why?


If you add water to this type of set up it will make the soil to wet and bad for plants.

The False bottom or LECA raise the dirt above the water so that it creates a drainage layer. This keeps it moist, but not soaking wet.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

yeah you need something separating the dirt from the water that will be under it. what kind of dirt is it?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> yeah you need something separating the dirt from the water that will be under it. what kind of dirt is it?


just like potting soil or whatever, and i dont think i am going to make a pond


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

We use the cheap ceramic dishes available @ the big chain stores...

They like hanging out in them - and have no problem getting in or out.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ok cool, how high do you keep the water level?


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

^^^ To the very top. Pretty much to the point of overflowing.

Our old Leuc's tank had a probably 2" deep water area with rocks leading out of it on both sides... He's been in that setup now for probably 6 months or so. We watched him carefully @ the beginning to make sure he was going to be ok with it... He never seemed to have a problem. 

To be safe - i'd say the dish is a good way to go - plus it's super easy to clean.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

oh thats cool  ya i am thinking about getting some luecs


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

i just cut the bottom of a fruit fly culture cup off to where it would be two inches deep. I then made sure the edges were smooth and put that in with my cobalts they love to sit in it. I just make sure that the water level is high enough to cover the majority of them but not high enough to go over their heads.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ya, does anyone know anyone that i can get like 2 luecs for a good price?


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Just browse the classifieds on this site, or go to the sponsor's page. There is a lot of info on this site, you just need to look around a little.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

heatfreakk3 said:


> ya, does anyone know anyone that i can get like 2 luecs for a good price?


Brian @ Brian's Tropicals helped me out to build my setup thru a few email convos... He seemed like a great guy to deal with.


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## Johan 555 (Mar 21, 2008)

I use a half coconut


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ok whoever gave me a bad post or whatever about askin about water thats not my fault! im trying to learn and im new so ya, and dont tell me to use the search cuz i dont want to.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

make sure you know exactly what kind of potting soil it is because some aren't frog safe with fertilizers in them and stuff, and make sure you still use gravel or a false bottom or something under it because it will get too wet from watering the plants


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

i dont water the plants, i just mist them. and i have moss and stuff on top or the soil


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

misting = watering, and it will turn the dirt into muddy stuff that will grow bacteria and kill plants and frogs if there's no drainage underneath especially with glass tops to hold in humidity


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> misting = watering, and it will turn the dirt into muddy stuff that will grow bacteria and kill plants and frogs if there's no drainage underneath especially with glass tops to hold in humidity


well i already made the tank so what do i do


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

tear apart the substrate and put in a drainage layer...


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

are you serious???


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

yeah... a drainage layer you will need no matter how you set your tank up. there are many different ways to do it. you can use the pvc and egg crate method (egg crate is what you would see at schools and offices that diffuse light. tiny little squares) with FIBERGLASS window screen on top. Then put your substrate on top of the screen. Or as others have said put gravel at the bottom or LECA (light expanded clay aggregrate, basically clay pellets) and put your substrate on top of that. I used the LECA with screen in my first viv and my secong viv has the egg crate method. I like the egg crate because the whole viv will be much lighter that building one with the LECA or gravel.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

i got a better idea, i kept mantellas like this for like 6 years and it's really easy and works better than dirt because dirt will rot after a while no matter what. put about 2 inches of aquarium gravel in the bottom, wet down some sphagnum moss or frog moss from a pet shop and put about inch of that on top of the gravel, then keep like 1 1/2 inches of water in there so that it comes up a little below the moss, you can even slope one end of it down so it forms a shallow pool, then just pour more spring water in as it evaporates, certain plants like pothos will grow in there also


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

yenrec said:


> yeah... a drainage layer you will need no matter how you set your tank up. there are many different ways to do it. you can use the pvc and egg crate method (egg crate is what you would see at schools and offices that diffuse light. tiny little squares) with FIBERGLASS window screen on top. Then put your substrate on top of the screen. Or as others have said put gravel at the bottom or LECA (light expanded clay aggregrate, basically clay pellets) and put your substrate on top of that. I used the LECA with screen in my first viv and my secong viv has the egg crate method. I like the egg crate because the whole viv will be much lighter that building one with the LECA or gravel.


ok thanks. so what kind of screen do i put between the leca and dirt? like how big are the hold in the screen? and what do i do if i want to put a little pond in there? like how do i set that up? and where do i get leca and java moss


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

I wouldn't keep a water dish in a new froglets tank. For larger frogs the only practical reason would be for depositing tads. The tank should be humid enough to where they don't need to soak to get moist. Dart frogs are totally terrestrial frogs. 

water features are nice to have for aesthetics but I've heard of frogs drowning but I've never had any problem with it.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

okay thanks. so should i put leca at the bottom of my tank than? and if so where do i get it? also could i put a pond in also? or would my frogs maybe drownd? is i can have a pond how do i make it? and do i have to put anything in pond like plants or anything to keep it from getting stagnet


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

read the last post i posted about just using gravel and frog moss, put some pothos in there and it's probably exactly what you're looking for


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

whats pothos


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

a really easy to grow plant that they sell anywhere, look for pics of it online. just stick the roots in the gravel and it grows like crazy


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

it normal window screen. so the holes are real small. some of the sponsors on this board sell leca just look around, you will find other items you may want in your vivs as well. if you wanted to build a pond with the leca method and whatnot just make a divit in the leca or keep some out of a corner and you can still cover everything with the window screen and just put some aquarium rocks over the screen to cover the screen and so it will look better than the leca.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

alright thanks. and do i put like the regular moss right on the gravel on the land part or do i put like soil than moss? and how deep should i make the pond? and for a 10g tank how much of it should i make pond?


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

i have always used substrates bought from different sponsors because i have other plants that i use it for. i have seen some viv where people just have it all leca and put certain mosses straight on the leca. it makes it easier, but i prefer the whole substrate mix and all because i feel it looks better. If you have your heart set on a pond i would make just a small one, your frogs will appreciate more floor space than anything else. Ponds look good, but they will be harder to maintain then just a shallow water dish. i have some ricca moss in my breeder viv and the pair had tracked some spares into their water dish and overtime the ricca started growing in there so the clear cup almost blends in now.. Its pretty neat


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

oh cool, well i kind of wanted a pond...what plants do i put in there? and do i have to do anything like clean it or anything? also can i make the false bottom gravel or do i need to use leca? and if i use gravel can i put a screen on top of the gravel then the soil and moss?


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

you can use all gravel if you want, it will just be heavier. And yeah i would recommend the screen then soil just to keep it from getting down into your water. But as stated before make sure there are not fertilizers and such in the soil. your best bet is to go to petsmart or petco and buy a compressed block of jungle bed or bedabeast or something. they are under 5 bucks and one block should be plenty for a 10 gal


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

yenrec said:


> you can use all gravel if you want, it will just be heavier. And yeah i would recommend the screen then soil just to keep it from getting down into your water. But as stated before make sure there are not fertilizers and such in the soil. your best bet is to go to petsmart or petco and buy a compressed block of jungle bed or bedabeast or something. they are under 5 bucks and one block should be plenty for a 10 gal


oh come to think of it i have some left over of that from my scorpion  so i can use thayt. thanks alot man you have been a lot of help  also how deep should i make the water, what should i put in it, and where do i get the plants to put in there, and how long will it take for the plants to get here because i am making the false bottom tonight


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

boil the gravel first, just to make sure and kill any nasties. i would only make it a inch deep if that. maybe a little deeper in the far back or middle, but make sure to slope the rocks so they can get out if they fall in or something. i get alot of my plants from joshsfrogs.com shipping normally is out next day, most sponsors have guidlines on when they will ship depending on what day you order. once shipped only a day or two. Even check the classifieds as i have seen cuttings being sold which will be cheaper, but they will be much smaller than buying a whole plant from a sponsor.


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

try and have the false bottom at least two inches or so..


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

alright and what about the pond part? how deep is that


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

with the sphagnum or frog moss, just wet it and put it on top of the gravel - i'm trying to show you the easiest and most fool-proof way to do it that always works. then you can slope the gravel down on one side to make a pond


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## yenrec (Jun 7, 2007)

heatfreakk3 said:


> alright and what about the pond part? how deep is that


i woudnt go much deeper than one inch. so you dont have to worry about the frogs drowning, but still slope the rocks


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Yenrec,

I just may have to nominate you for the dendroboard medal of honor....


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

yeah just pour spring water in the tank till the pond is less tall than the frogs are, and pour more in as it evaporates each couple of days. this way all you need is gravel, water and frog moss you can get in a pet store, and any easy plants you wanna stick in the gravel


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

okay and what is the best plant to put in the gravel in the water? and what makes the water not stagnet?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

pothos roots in the water should clean it, but it should also evaporate quick enough and you need to pour new water in


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

alright thanks, ill post pics tomorrow cuz i am goig to make it tomorrow


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

ok cool, quick guide: 
rinse aquarium gravel, put in the bottom of the tank 2 inches deep with one end sloped for a pond. 
take pothos plants, rinse off the leaves and rinse all the dirt off the roots, stick the roots in the gravel down to the bottom.
take dry sphagnum or frog moss, dip it in spring water to get it really wet and put it on top of the gravel about a half inch to an inch thick.
pour spring water into pond area about an inch deep.
DONE!


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ok but cant i put a screen over the gravel than put reptile dirt stuff on the screen than moss on the dirt so i can plant plants on the land part


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

yeah but that gets kinda complicated keeping the dirt out of the pond part, which if happens you're gonna start it from scratch. gravel and moss pretty much can't be messed up


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Chris,

Are you trying for the medal too?......I will put you in for it you know?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

haha i'll take a medal if they're handed out


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

heatfreakk just by the way, lotsa expert keepers switched to using gravel instead of dirt because of how easy it is and how well it works


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

Give a kid a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a kid to fish and feed him for a lifetime. 



fish=search=read=research=google=read=search=google=read=google=read


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Dragas said:


> Give a kid a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a kid to fish and feed him for a lifetime.
> 
> 
> 
> fish=search=read=research=google=read=search=google=read=google=read


he said he's not gonna search


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I use the top of a uncut, without holes ff culture lid and my auratus love it. I do clean it evry couple of days or so.

-Beth


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> Chris,
> 
> Are you trying for the medal too?......I will put you in for it you know?


what medal?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

There is an old thread discussing DB awards and medals but it's a while since it was discussed.

A search just may turn up the thread....


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> There is an old thread discussing DB awards and medals but it's a while since it was discussed.
> 
> A search just may turn up the thread....


oh ok, well would my tank be good if today i put the gravel in and made a slope for a pond, than put screen on it than some reptile dirt, than the moss. is that good?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/11865-good-threads-read-beginners.html









My Karma required this after that medal stuff......


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ok cool, but i cant find any water plants for the pond. like pothos, java moss or ricca. i cant find ay of them on joshes frogs and black jungle


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Don't worry about water plants or java moss....you do not need either one at your stage.

The pond you want is going to be nothing more that a sloped part of the corner of your tank.

Don't think of it as a "koi or turtle pond" as it's not going to be a nice little round bowl of clear water.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ok but how do i maake sure the water doesnt get stagnet?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

pothos is a really common house plant, get it in any store that sells plants just rinse it off really good


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

alright cool, i am making the tank today and i really hope it goes good


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