# Viv Discussion of the "Week" (VDOTW) 2020-08-22



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Hi Folks,
_I figured I would post one of my tanks to talk about. I plan to do this on a regular basis, but, knowing me, it probably won't be weekly - hence "week" in quotes  My goal in posting these is not for everybody to tell me how great they look (I don't think I am even in the top half of folks on this board, based on the awesome builds I have seen from you guys). My goal is to generate discussion and maybe you guys can help me out a little bit. I have been at this for over 10 years, but I feel like I still have so much to learn. I am interested in opinions from people with decades or 5 minutes of experience  If you have suggestions, I would love to hear them. If you have questions, I am happy to answer them._

Let the games begin! I am starting off with one of my tanks that is not my favorite. I have redone it several times and I would still like it to look better. It's a ZooMed Skyscraper (18"x18"x36") and I have written in other posts about how difficult I find these tanks to 'scape. 










This is a pretty standard tank build for me. The background is a Dendro Dave Cracked Cork Mosaic (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/p...-mosaic-living-drip-wall-pond-method-how.html) which you can't see very well. Maybe I will get better pictures in an upcoming VDOTW. It has tree fern fiber embedded in CR Lawrence black silicone (safe, because it does not have organotins as a curing agent) on the sides which shinglers (some of favorites!) really enjoy. Again, I can get better pictures of the sides of some of my tanks in future posts.


















The top half of the tank looks a bit messy to me, but the plants are mostly happy. I have no fan in this tank, but I think the vent under the door combined with the vent at the top provides enough air movement. I could cut back on the misting for this tank, I think. One of my favorite parts of this tank is the brom smack dab in the middle No idea what it is (any help with an ID?), however, it is very prolific and I love the look of it. It has spikes everywhere on it and I have them all over my tanks and have never seen any wounds on frogs as a result. I think the frogs are pretty good at moving over the spikes without injuring themselves. The Tillandsias at the top are doing great and that is something I do in a lot of my tanks. The area right against the top vent is pretty dry. Tillandsias like that. They also seem to like the added light. The moss up there probably means that the tank is a bit wet up there. 

The bottom half of the tank is an eye sore to me, but it is also where the frogs hang out the most (in the leaf litter - shocking!). I don't typically grow many plants in the substrate. I prefer epiphytes. The substrate is Turface covered in leaf litter. I use an egg crate false bottom suspended with cut PVC pipes and have a drainage bulkhead drilled into the back, bottom of the tank. The bottom of the tank is really dark compared with the top. That is the problem I have had with Skyscrapers. I like to use the negative space with branches (usually Manzanita) and in Skyscrapers, it has been tough for me to have branches in the negative space while also getting light all the way down to the bottom. The frogs don't seem to mind, which is why I leave the tank the way it is.


















The light is by Spectral Designs and this light has performed really well for me. It grows plants well and I like the color of it. It is low-profile and doesn't get very hot. I could turn it down if I wanted to, as well. The top of the ZooMed has been modified. I tear out the screen (see pic below) and then put a piece of glass on the little plastic insert that comes in the top of the tank. I stop the glass about 2-3 inches short and hot glue some screen over that gap to make a vent. I set a little narrow piece of glass the same size as the vent over it so that I can control how much or how little air I want to come through. My house is almost always very low humidity, so I usually have the glass at least partially obscuring the vent. I move it as conditions dictate.










As I said, I pull that metal screen out and save the plastic rim. I silicone or hot glue the glass to that piece of plastic. Silicone doesn't stick to plastic very well, but it is usually enough to get the job done since the weight of the glass mostly keeps it in place. 










In here are 1.0.1 Oophaga sylvatica. For those unfamiliar, that means I have one that I have seen and heard calling but the other one is unknown. Might be a female or a quiet male. The male hangs out up in the top and calls sometimes and also hangs in the leaf litter at the bottom sometimes. The other one prefers the leaf litter. I am waiting for them to start breeding, but nothing yet 

Things I like about this tank:
1 - the top part...
2 - the prolific bromeliad with the spikes
3 - the shingling (I promise I will show better examples in the future 

Things I don't like about this tank:
1 - the 'scaping of the negative space that blocks the light to the bottom
2 - the ugly but effective bottom of the tank
3 - the sloppy way the plants have grown in, even at the top

What do you guys think? I posted one of my least favorite tanks first because I think it's important for everyone to see that not every tank in your collection (or any, for that matter) needs to match the quality and aesthetics that you might see from some of the talented builders and keepers in the Member's Frogs and Vivariums forum. However, I still feel that I have not cut corners on the habitat I am providing for my frogs. I may not be all that happy with how the tank looks, but I designed it for frogs to take advantage of the height and they do, for the most part.

Mark


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## gonzalez (Mar 28, 2018)

I’ve had similar problems with my 36x18x36. I underestimated how much light would be blocked from the bottom, especially as plants grew into the scape. I’ve also started to hate my cork mosaic background on it, the light dries out the sphagnum at the top too quickly, but the sphagnum at the bottom is always sopping wet. I think it works fine it shorter tanks but with 36” hight it just doesn’t for me. About to tear the tank down because I just can’t get it working properly. 

I don’t think your tank looks bad though, and I really like whatever vine is growing up the left side (raphidophora?). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

I like the idea of doing an ongoing tank critique style thread!

Anyway I think the issue with this tank is there is something like 70% of your visible vegetation at just over halfway up the viv. There is almost none below that point and only a little (comparatively) above it. This makes the eye go right to that center point of the viv but there it stops. There are no points of interest to draw the eye elsewhere. 

In the top you have a bit of moss that looks a bit stringy for my taste (java moss?) and lots of vines (against the right wall) that appear mostly bare of leaf? Personally I just don't like java moss, not in an aquarium and not in a viv. I know its super easy to grow but there are so many mosses that are more appealing. I get my moss from the wild which means I need to clean it but it looks a lot nicer when it takes. 

For the vines that are mostly bare of leaf I would trim everything back that is not actively growing something green. To the extent that this plant doesn't do more then that I would consider other plant options.

I would also remove all the broms in the tank (with the exception of the spiky one up top you like) and replant them on the walls. I would get new wood and put them along the sides of the viv to build shelves there and attach all plants that are not moss to the wood on the sides or to the background/sides themselves. This leaves open the middle of the tank for light as well as frogs to use the wood/moss covered wood you leave/put there as their jungle gym. It should also allow more light to the bottom of the tank allowing you options for plants.

Just my thoughts.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

This is a great idea, Mark -- thanks for starting it!

I like the shaded substrate, but I've been looking at too many 'in-situ' pics; my aesthetic sensibilities are regressing.  I wonder if there is some sort of arch-shaped, or otherwise non-leaf-litter-excluding hardscape element that could be put down on/near the bottom to add visual interest (as well as frog playground area) -- a cork tube with a little arch to it, and maybe a crotch or two in it -- broken-log-fallen-on-the-ground looking item.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

*Re: Viv Discussion of the &quot;Week&quot; (VDOTW) 2020-08-22*

I LOVE how this tank looks. There's very little I would do to change it. 

My thoughts on what I would do if I had this tank:
* Wood at the bottom part, diagonally to provide a ramp for the frogs to get to the top easier. 
* A nice piece of cork bark (a round) in the middle at the bottom would liven things up a lot. 
* Seed pods! They'd liven up the bottom section. Seru pods, jungle pods, 

I particularly like the lack of plants along the bottom level. I can imagine the frogs frolicking "happily" around in the leaf litter. 

PS, if you're looking for other people to put their tanks up for this, let me know. In a cooler weeks I can get one of mine up for review/discussion.


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

I agree with fishingguy.

Your tank looks great. For scaping purpose I would place a piece of wood, or an uneven number of rocks on the bottom.


I'd do nothing more..


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## whp (Feb 6, 2020)

Looks really great
Tall terrariums are difficult to light, but great for the frogs.
I wouldn't do anything anymore, because your frogs like to be on the ground anyway and looking for food, that's a great room for them.
My Pumis were or are almost never in the leaves on the ground in the high tank.
That's why I illuminated the ground from the outside with 40W LED spots and planted a little, for myself, not for the frogs.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

gonzalez said:


> I’ve had similar problems with my 36x18x36. I underestimated how much light would be blocked from the bottom, especially as plants grew into the scape. I’ve also started to hate my cork mosaic background on it, the light dries out the sphagnum at the top too quickly, but the sphagnum at the bottom is always sopping wet. I think it works fine it shorter tanks but with 36” hight it just doesn’t for me. About to tear the tank down because I just can’t get it working properly.
> 
> I don’t think your tank looks bad though, and I really like whatever vine is growing up the left side (raphidophora?).
> 
> ...


It sounds like maybe you are misting more and have more ventilation than I do. I don't have any trouble at all with drying out/sopping wet except for the usual dry area up at the very top next to the vent. If I understand what vine you are talking about, it's Rhaphidophora korthalsii, I believe. It's one of my favorites and one of the main reasons I do loose tree fern fiber on the sides of almost all of my tanks 

Mark


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

minorhero said:


> I like the idea of doing an ongoing tank critique style thread!


Yeah! I hope people join in  



minorhero said:


> Anyway I think the issue with this tank is there is something like 70% of your visible vegetation at just over halfway up the viv. There is almost none below that point and only a little (comparatively) above it. This makes the eye go right to that center point of the viv but there it stops. There are no points of interest to draw the eye elsewhere.


I think this is true, though the pictures I took don't really capture it well. Some of that problem is based on the lighting situation I refer to in the post. 



minorhero said:


> In the top you have a bit of moss that looks a bit stringy for my taste (java moss?) and lots of vines (against the right wall) that appear mostly bare of leaf? Personally I just don't like java moss, not in an aquarium and not in a viv. I know its super easy to grow but there are so many mosses that are more appealing. I get my moss from the wild which means I need to clean it but it looks a lot nicer when it takes.
> 
> For the vines that are mostly bare of leaf I would trim everything back that is not actively growing something green. To the extent that this plant doesn't do more then that I would consider other plant options.


Yeah, I agree completely, here. I don't like stuff that grows sloppy and java moss just can't help it above or below the water. I think it came in with something else - probably baby tears from when I had a planted tank. I agree about the stuff on the top right, too. I don't know what it is, but it is sort of succulent-ish. I don't like how it grows, but it is one of those plants that I don't want to lose in case I find a use for it someday, so I just keep in parked in this tank  I should work on it a bit more to see if it can grow a bit more well-mannered. It might do better in a wetter place. If this was my only tank, I would just let it go, but you never know when you might want a certain plant in a different tank, so I let some plants stick around just in case.



minorhero said:


> I would also remove all the broms in the tank (with the exception of the spiky one up top you like) and replant them on the walls. I would get new wood and put them along the sides of the viv to build shelves there and attach all plants that are not moss to the wood on the sides or to the background/sides themselves. This leaves open the middle of the tank for light as well as frogs to use the wood/moss covered wood you leave/put there as their jungle gym. It should also allow more light to the bottom of the tank allowing you options for plants.
> 
> Just my thoughts.


That's an interesting idea. Probably a bit too much of a remodel for my tastes, for now, but I would like to try an empty-middle idea at some point. It's a little close to what I have done in one of my other skyscrapers which I hope to share at some point.

Thanks for the feedback!

Mark


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Socratic Monologue said:


> This is a great idea, Mark -- thanks for starting it!
> 
> I like the shaded substrate, but I've been looking at too many 'in-situ' pics; my aesthetic sensibilities are regressing.  I wonder if there is some sort of arch-shaped, or otherwise non-leaf-litter-excluding hardscape element that could be put down on/near the bottom to add visual interest (as well as frog playground area) -- a cork tube with a little arch to it, and maybe a crotch or two in it -- broken-log-fallen-on-the-ground looking item.


These are good ideas. Again, I think it looks pretty bleak down there primarily because of the pictures, but some points of interest down there are a good idea. I also like how a lot of folks have pods and other plant paraphernalia in their tanks. I have enough tanks that if I did that in all of them, it would break the bank, but something to break up the monotony would be helpful.

Mark


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> These are good ideas. Again, I think it looks pretty bleak down there primarily because of the pictures, but some points of interest down there are a good idea. I also like how a lot of folks have pods and other plant paraphernalia in their tanks. I have enough tanks that if I did that in all of them, it would break the bank, but something to break up the monotony would be helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark


Bulk order 

Even a single cocoa pod or jungle pod in the bottom of the tank would draw some interest from the frogs.
Mine climb on the pods a lot


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

*Re: Viv Discussion of the &quot;Week&quot; (VDOTW) 2020-08-22*



fishingguy12345 said:


> I LOVE how this tank looks. There's very little I would do to change it.


Thanks! I am just ok with it but have a bunch more ideas now, thanks to all of you guys! 



fishingguy12345 said:


> My thoughts on what I would do if I had this tank:
> * Wood at the bottom part, diagonally to provide a ramp for the frogs to get to the top easier.
> * A nice piece of cork bark (a round) in the middle at the bottom would liven things up a lot.
> * Seed pods! They'd liven up the bottom section. Seru pods, jungle pods,
> ...


How did I know that ramps and/or ledges would end up in your quote, FG? ;-) I have thought about that a bit since you suggested it and, even though the frogs CAN get up to the top, a ramp might make it easier for them to do so and encourage it. I think I will try it. I could park it at the back where it could barely be seen or combine that idea with some of the others and use it as a design element, too. I have plenty of cork lying around to try it with  I can combine the ramp with a cork round, like you suggest, too. Kill two birds with one stone! As I said above, seed pod type things could help a lot down there. I just can't get into the habit of it with every tank!



fishingguy12345 said:


> PS, if you're looking for other people to put their tanks up for this, let me know. In a cooler weeks I can get one of mine up for review/discussion.


Nope - only me - j/k  _Of course_ you and anyone else are welcome to get in on the fun. Please do contribute your own tanks!

Mark.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Tijl said:


> I agree with fishingguy.
> 
> Your tank looks great. For scaping purpose I would place a piece of wood, or an uneven number of rocks on the bottom.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Tijl. Dressing up the bottom has been a common theme in the feedback. I look forward to giving it a try. We will see what I have lying around 

Mark


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

whp said:


> Looks really great
> Tall terrariums are difficult to light, but great for the frogs.
> I wouldn't do anything anymore, because your frogs like to be on the ground anyway and looking for food, that's a great room for them.
> My Pumis were or are almost never in the leaves on the ground in the high tank.
> That's why I illuminated the ground from the outside with 40W LED spots and planted a little, for myself, not for the frogs.


Yeah, I agree. I think the frogs really enjoy the height most of the time. I think that I can do some things that will help them enjoy it even more. Being large obligates, I would think that O. sylvatica should behave a bit more like the pums you describe. I will see what I can do to make them balance their time a bit more toward the top! Now that I think about it, I do feed them in the leaf litter. I wonder if feeding them aloft would do anything to encourage them to climb a bit more.

Ok, you guys have inspired me to work on this tank a bit!

Mark


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

*Re: Viv Discussion of the &quot;Week&quot; (VDOTW) 2020-08-22*

Last suggestion from me. 
A coconut! Buy a coconut at the grocery store, cook it, clean it out, drill a hole in it. Cheaper than seed pods but serves the same purpose. 

You can leave it whole with just a single hole in it, or cut it in half. 
He's one that I just banged on the ground after it was cooked to crack it, and it broke in a cool way so I left it. 

Only costs about $1.50


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

*Re: Viv Discussion of the &quot;Week&quot; (VDOTW) 2020-08-22*



fishingguy12345 said:


> cook it


Recipes? You sound like you have some good coconut recipes.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

*Re: Viv Discussion of the &quot;Week&quot; (VDOTW) 2020-08-22*



fishingguy12345 said:


> Last suggestion from me.
> A coconut! Buy a coconut at the grocery store, cook it, clean it out, drill a hole in it. Cheaper than seed pods but serves the same purpose.
> 
> You can leave it whole with just a single hole in it, or cut it in half.
> ...


"I'm ready for my close-up!"


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

*Re: Viv Discussion of the &quot;Week&quot; (VDOTW) 2020-08-22*



Socratic Monologue said:


> Recipes? You sound like you have some good coconut recipes.


Haha, not recipes. What I do is cook it at 350F for about 25 minutes. When the meat gets cooked then it's way easier to remove.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Ok, you guys inspired me to go in there and make some changes to the tank. I think it's been years since I have made substantive changes to this tank, so I cleaned a lot of stuff out that has been bugging me. I gave it a bit more of a haircut than what was suggested, but I think I am happier with the results and it will grow in better this time, I hope.










So very angry!










This is the spiky brom that I like so much. The first step was to clip off the pup that was nearly the same size as the adult. This really opened things up at the bottom and was the start I needed. For some reason, this brom pups from the back and has to wrap alllll the way around to the front for the pup. The connection between the pup and adult (what's that called, guys?) is kinda scaly and cool-looking but must be a foot long by the time it wraps around.










I really hollowed out that upper right corner and got rid of a lot of the java moss filler that was up in there. That was basically a weed and served no purpose but to stifle the roots on my little broms. I think air will move much better up there now. I also unearthed a couple of air plants (Tillandsias) that I moved up higher on the background. I got rid of that sloppy-growing succulent for the most part, too. I did save a little to plant at the bottom of the wall to see if I can get it to shingle up the side which you can see in some of the pics.










This is the right side cleaned out of all but the Blue Cebu roots. I like the look of those and I think if I pulled them off, they would take a lot of the loose tree fern fiber with them! I used them to tuck a couple of the small broms behind. We will see if they take to that positioning. This variety of bromeliad has always been a little finicky for me. Maybe drier conditions will suit them better.










Here is a better view of the Rhaphidophora korthalsii shingling in the loose tree fern fiber-covered left side. pumilo taught me how to do this and I love how it grows shingling plants and other crawlers.










Here is toward the upper left. I hollowed this out quite a bit, too, but not as much as the right. 


















And here are a couple of shots of the bottom. I have a couple of bucephalandras in the litter that I got from sumer that I am trying to get going, so that limits the space I have to play with down in the front. I added a little piece of wood right in the leaf litter and a little piece of wood that I am hoping the frogs will use as a ramp. The sides of the tank are really climbable for most species with loose tree fern fiber, as well. 


















And here is the whole thing, now. I think it looks better than before. Thanks for the tips! I think there are certain things about this tank that can only be fixed with a complete tear-down, but I don't think it's bad enough to warrant it. The biggest things is that my favorite brom is located in a notch of limbs that are too close to the middle of the tank. Everything would be a lot better if the brom, as focal point, was located off-center about a third. Barring that, though, I am content with things as they are now. Don't get used to me making instant modifications based on feedback ;-) but I am glad I had the time to do it in this case.

Thanks again for the help!

Mark


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> The connection between the pup and adult (what's that called, guys?)


Stolon.

What did I win? 

PS -- That looks much nicer now! Honestly, you should start another regular column called 'before and after'.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

It definitely looks better! I said it once but I will say it again, this thread idea is fun!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Stolon.
> 
> What did I win?
> 
> PS -- That looks much nicer now! Honestly, you should start another regular column called 'before and after'.


The respect and admiration of the frogging world ;-) I would need a lot of help with a before and after thread, but that would be fun, too!

Mark


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

I really like this idea Encyclia! I apologize for being late to the party. (Two jobs and full time school again). However, I'm quite glad to see you've made some improvements. This viv looks much better! IMO. You have been talking about this tank for a while now and I think it was time.  Can't wait to come see it in person. I have a tank I could use some critique on myself. Please let me know when there is a good time for me to HOP on the bandwagon.


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

I love how you added some plants on the ground. I'm a sucker for a little ground cover.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

LouiesLair said:


> I really like this idea Encyclia! I apologize for being late to the party. (Two jobs and full time school again). However, I'm quite glad to see you've made some improvements. This viv looks much better! IMO. You have been talking about this tank for a while now and I think it was time.  Can't wait to come see it in person. I have a tank I could use some critique on myself. Please let me know when there is a good time for me to HOP on the bandwagon.


Thanks! Yeah, that tank has always kinda bothered me and I am a lot happier with it now. The frogs actually seem a bit more active and using different places in the tank now, too, so that's a sign that things are improving  Maybe I will actually get some breeding out of those freeloaders! HOP on the bandwagon anytime! 



LouiesLair said:


> I love how you added some plants on the ground. I'm a sucker for a little ground cover.


Yeah, I tend to avoid ground cover in favor of leaf litter but some of the my tanks have more than others. This one has been sparse but it should get better over time, I think, because more light hits the bottom after the remodel.

Mark


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## LouiesLair (Apr 2, 2019)

More Light is definitely a good thing here IMO. I like the juxtaposition and balance of the top vs bottom now. Feels less imbalanced. Go Team!


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

This tank would be a good one for begonia bipinnatifida and a big reason why its one of my favorite plants. Its lace leafed nature allows light to dapple through it and light up the substrate below it, you can even grow some plants under it. It can also get somewhat tall, reaching the top of my 24 inch vivarium. It loves high humidity and brings great color into a vivarium. It allows the frogs to feel comfortable and not out in the open while still allowing light to show off their colors.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Pubfiction said:


> This tank would be a good one for begonia bipinnatifida and a big reason why its one of my favorite plants. Its lace leafed nature allows light to dapple through it and light up the substrate below it, you can even grow some plants under it. It can also get somewhat tall, reaching the top of my 24 inch vivarium. It loves high humidity and brings great color into a vivarium. It allows the frogs to feel comfortable and not out in the open while still allowing light to show off their colors.


Pubfiction, is this the stuff?


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I dont know if that is an extremely immature one or a different plant but its this one. https://www.glassboxtropicals.com/Begonia-bipinnatifida-p/begbip.htm The one you have looks like another begonia, the name is slipping me


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Pubfiction said:


> I dont know if that is an extremely immature one or a different plant but its this one. https://www.glassboxtropicals.com/Begonia-bipinnatifida-p/begbip.htm The one you have looks like another begonia, the name is slipping me


Ah ok, I couldn't remember  I might have some of that other one lying around somewhere, too. Have to remember where.

Thanks!

Mark


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## Andrew Sullivan (Aug 5, 2017)

In regards to your "problem #2: "2 - the ugly but effective bottom of the tank"

Note: I am not a biologist or anything close i just have always been interested in the forest. So, the following may not be fully accurate.

I really love skyscraper tanks (i dont have one yet) because to me they mimic the 4 layers of the forest structure on a small scale of course. So, my preference is having a tank where it looks like you drew a square around a section of the forest so an 18"x18"x36" section.

In reality to really mimic the general Oophaga habitat it uses during its life-cycle the artificial environment really only needs to mimic the forest floor and the canopy layer where the majority of epiphytes can be found in thick bunches.

Oophaga usually stick around the forest floor and its leaf litter but they will frequently climb trees to the canopy layer to utilize the bromiliads.

So to circle back to your "Problem" the canopy layer gets about 90% of the light with some blocked by the emergent layer and the forest floor can get as little as 2% of light with the understory only getting around 15%. 

So in reality you have captured the ecosystem of the frog in your tank extremely well as they seem to be using it as expected in nature.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah! My ugly but effective tank was right all along! Thanks for the comments, Andrew. That is a really good way to look at things. The redo on the tank seems to have prompted the frogs to use the canopy a little more. Now, here's hoping they use it to breed!

Thanks again for an insightful comment.

Mark



Andrew Sullivan said:


> In regards to your "problem #2: "2 - the ugly but effective bottom of the tank"
> 
> Note: I am not a biologist or anything close i just have always been interested in the forest. So, the following may not be fully accurate.
> 
> ...


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## Caietaro (Jun 16, 2020)

Encyclia said:


> Pubfiction, is this the stuff?



This looks more like Begonia polliloensis. The bipinnatifida I’ve seen has a nice red hue to the leaves.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Nice! Thanks for the ID. I think I found another one that may or may not be bipinatiffida. I will take a pic and see what you guys think. 

Mark


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## Androgynoid (Sep 3, 2020)

When I was making this viv, I could only find white silicone and thought it would be fine. Alas, the ABG has washed away in high-mist areas. Thankfully it doesnt seem to be getting any worse, but how would yall go about covering this mess up? I tried "Dusk Moss" mix, and it mainly sprouted sphagnum which made things a bit worse. Some other mosses have actually grown into the walls/ second story floor but the spahlgnum just seemed to make things a bit worse.

Also, I'll be pulling the tetrasperma out of the top L corner but I have no clue what pant should fill its shoes. That pilea is rooted into the background (graciously hiding that awful white silicone) not the planter itself. I'd greatly appreciate suggestions for what could thrive better there.

http://imgur.com/gallery/Psd3ZVg


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Ouch. That's part of the reason why I stopped using Great Stuff. I couldn't handle when that yellow started to show through (and it ALWAYS did, for me at least). I am not sure it is possible to hide white like that on the background. You can't re-silicone because silicone doesn't stick to cured silicone. Your best bet might be to try to get shinglers to grow back there, but their roots may not like that silicone. You probably won't want to hear it, but I would consider scrapping that part of it and trying again. Can't tell you how many times I had to do that when I first started making tanks. I don't have any of my original tanks left. I sold or gave them away. Before doing too much, though, Androgynoid, you might want to come up and look at some of my tanks. I have enough mistakes in my existing tanks that I can show you what to avoid if you choose a redo  

Best of luck!

Mark



Androgynoid said:


> When I was making this viv, I could only find white silicone and thought it would be fine. Alas, the ABG has washed away in high-mist areas. Thankfully it doesnt seem to be getting any worse, but how would yall go about covering this mess up? I tried "Dusk Moss" mix, and it mainly sprouted sphagnum which made things a bit worse. Some other mosses have actually grown into the walls/ second story floor but the spahlgnum just seemed to make things a bit worse.
> 
> Also, I'll be pulling the tetrasperma out of the top L corner but I have no clue what pant should fill its shoes. That pilea is rooted into the background (graciously hiding that awful white silicone) not the planter itself. I'd greatly appreciate suggestions for what could thrive better there.
> 
> http://imgur.com/gallery/Psd3ZVg


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Encyclia said:


> *Things I don't like about this tank:
> 1 - the 'scaping of the negative space that blocks the light to the bottom
> 2 - the ugly but effective bottom of the tank*
> 3 - the sloppy way the plants have grown in, even at the top
> ...


This is actually my favorite thing about this tank. I love enclosures with a shady 'understory' like this.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

UPDATE: I have started to go through my tanks seriously for the first time in probably a year and thought I would take the time to update this thread. The pictures are below.

I am actually pretty happy with this tank now. I really like the way the moss has grown in. In spite of the moss doing well, I don't feel that this tank is overly wet. I really like the top of the tank and I think the frogs like the option of the darker lower part of the tank. Not much grows down there, but I don't really care and it gives the frogs a place to get out of the bright light if they want to. I like the visual balance of things now, too. I should get some pictures of my other skyscrapers for visual comparison at some point. 

One interesting thing I noticed about some of the plants in the tank is that they seem a bit nutrient starved. I am not sharp enough to know what they are starved for, but the yellow doesn't seem like that great a sign. I attribute this to my use of pure Turface as a substrate. I think it lacks nutrients until the leaf litter starts to decay and fill the spaces. The couple of years I have had this tank set up is apparently not enough time. I might try some very mild fertilizer at some point to see if I can offset this problem. I would welcome suggestions along these lines. I don't want to harm the frogs. In spite of the nutrient issue, I still like Turface for many other reasons, and I will probably keep using it. My focus is usually on the epiphytes, but it would be interesting to see if I can correct the problem using ferts. Thoughts, @Harpspiel?

One of my O. sylvatica San Lorenzo was out and I got a picture of him (pretty sure that all three I have are male, but I have hopes for one to be female - had to remove the other confirmed male due to aggression). I like the way you can't really tell if he is in focus  

I also got a couple of action shots of the flower coming out of the brom (Vrisea?). It is a really striking bloom. As with many brom flowers, you can only take pictures that are too early or too late  There appears to be about 5 minutes where it is perfect, and I never get a picture during those 5 minutes.

Ok, just like before - let me know what you guys think. Comments are welcome. 

Thanks!

Mark


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I love it. Great update! I love the way you used the height I might have to consider a tank like this in the future... I'm dreaming of pumilio some day soonish...


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

@Encyclia I'm pretty new to this too, but based on this link it looks like maybe iron, manganese or zinc. Here's a nice graphic. You might be able to find a micronutrient fertilizer that you could add right to the base of that plant and see if the new leaves improve in color, but all of the ones I'm seeing contain copper, which (as I understand it) would be dangerous for the frogs.

edit: "new to this" meaning determining deficiencies and finding a balanced fertilizer regimen.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

@Encyclia my first thought with chlorosis is iron deficiency. Many years ago I had a planted aquarium and used an iron-based liquid fertilizer to great effect that was made for fish. If I were to resort to ferts in a frog tank I might check the aquarium hobby first, in the hopes that fish-safe will translate to frog-safe. I'd also dilute it to maybe quarter strength to start, since there's no water column to dilute it. Just wild speculation.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

That's a really good idea, Fahad. Ariel's mention of copper and frogs has me a bit spooked, though. Maybe some super dilute Flourish. Will have to look into it more. 

Mark


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> That's a really good idea, Fahad. Ariel's mention of copper and frogs has me a bit spooked, though. Maybe some super dilute Flourish. Will have to look into it more.
> 
> Mark


I know that Flourish does have some copper in it, but supposedly the only caveat is not to overdose it; it's possible you may find something more appropriate from Tropica because they have a general purpose and at least one specialized product, but a cursory glance failed to turn up the full ingredients list -- although I'm sure it's on the Web somewhere.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

What's the epiphytic climbing plant on the bottom right with the sort of heart shaped leaves? and would it be ok with higher light?


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Also I think you can safely assume most aquarium fertilisers are frog safe with the obvious exception of gluteraldehyde. Particularly if you spot dose so the frogs aren't necessarily forced into contact.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Hi Louis, 
I have no idea about that plant. I am not even sure it's technically a climber because I have it kind of spiralled into a confined area to force it to grow up. It doesn't seem to want to shingle or go up on its own. 

I think you are probably right about the fertilizers, too. I think I would only get gluteraldehyde in Flourish Excel, right? I would never use that anyway. I think that spot treating the areas of root growth on specific plants is unlikely to harm the frogs. I may give it a shot with a very dilute dose.

Thanks!

Mark


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