# Repashy SuperFly



## crank68516

I was just wondering if anyone has used the Repashy SuperFly yet. I know it's a newer product but I am curious of your results.


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## Arizona Tropicals

I can't remember if I received the email yesterday or the day before but its only been released in the last couple days. Based on Allen's other products however, I'm sure it'll prove to be good stuff.


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## Lukeomelas

I just saw this stuff yesterday. I wonder if it will smell like bananas. One can hope!


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## Brotherly Monkey

Done


*ten character*


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## earthfrog

Thank you for the offer. I have ordered some and I will let you know how it fares compared to the homemade mix I have used with the same generations of flies for over 2 years.


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## Azurel

Done as well......


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## Vinnner

Just placed an order, will def let you know the results as I make a culture or two a week.


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## frogmanchu

hey allen i put in my order but forgot to add user name sending pm
thanks


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## frogparty

DONE! Perfect timing, I was out of Carolina mix anyways. I will be certain to give detailed feedback


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## chas79

Placed a order as well and will give you feedback!!!!!!!!


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## Mitch

Order placed! I'll be testing it against Josh's Frogs Media and Black Jungle Media.


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## JJuchems

Thanks for the offer Allen. I am looking forward to the comparison, I will actually set-up a side by side. I am always looking for a good media.


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## randfp

I just placed an order for this new product, I'm not satisfied with my current media. Thanks for this special offer.


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## Pumilo

Done Allen! I will set up a side by side with my long time homemade formula.


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## Darts/Mantellas.by.P3RRY

Awesome Allen its buisness men like you who make the United states a better place in todays age. I am looking foward to this since with the current products im using Im experienceing a lot of Vit. A defficency resulting in STS in alot of my froglets. I look foward to seeing the long term results and will give you the best feedback possible. Thanks -P3RRY


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## Chris155hp

I'll be ordering this tonight. I will put it up against 2 other fly mixes


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## Mitch

Darts/Mantellas.by.P3RRY said:


> Awesome Allen its buisness men like you who make the United states a better place in todays age. I am looking foward to this since with the current products im using Im experienceing a lot of Vit. A defficency resulting in STS in alot of my froglets. I look foward to seeing the long term results and will give you the best feedback possible. Thanks -P3RRY


That doesn't have much to do with fruit fly media... sounds like you need to start supplementing with Repshy Calcium Plus though!


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## Boondoggle

Well, I've switched over to your supplements, so I might as well try this. Feedback will be returned. Thanks, Allen.


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## Enlightened Rogue

Thanks Allen, I`ll put an order in and get back to you.

John


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## Darts/Mantellas.by.P3RRY

I picked up some vits as well as the new ff media!


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## fleshfrombone

Guess I'll hop on the bandwagon, order complete. Just to warn you though my mix is pretty amazing stuff. Just kidding.


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## tachikoma

Just ordered also, will be comparing to both Josh's Frogs mixes. I will do side by side as well and even take pics of production. Thanks again!


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## BASSMS1726

thanks for the offer Allen!! I will test it against some other well know brands out there!
Feedback to follow.....

thanks!


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## Mitch

Someone should make a thread in the vendor feedback forum so we can all share our experiences with the media in one thread...


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## earthfrog

I keep silica packs in the supplements I receive---I take them out of other vitamin jars from the store. It helps preserve the vitamins' integrity. 
When stored in the fridge and removed repeatedly, it can encourage condensation to form inside the pouch. It is almost better to store them in a cool, dry place with silica packs in them than in the fridge as the repeated cycle of condensation inside the pouch can reduce their efficacy and longevity.

Allen, is there a possibility of adding small silica packs to your products?


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## JJuchems

earthfrog said:


> I keep silica packs in the supplements I receive---I take them out of other vitamin jars from the store. It helps preserve the vitamins' integrity.
> When stored in the fridge and removed repeatedly, it can encourage condensation to form inside the pouch. It is almost better to store them in a cool, dry place with silica packs in them than in the fridge as the repeated cycle of condensation inside the pouch can reduce their efficacy and longevity.
> 
> Allen, is there a possibility of adding small silica packs to your products?


Amazon.com: Silica Gel 50 - 1 gram packets: Everything Else


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## sports_doc

Mitch said:


> Someone should make a thread in the vendor feedback forum so we can all share our experiences with the media in one thread...


OK
I moved Allen's 'offer' and my post to the feedback section for now, although we may move it back here, since the Feedback area is new and 'for a specific purpose'

Thread reopened, post away Allen.


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## Allen Repashy

Ok, The thread has been reopened and I would like to keep this going a bit. 

First thing is a question I have for you out there as to what you think makes a great culture.....what are YOUR criteria for judging media. I would appreciate some feedback here. 

Here are some things to think about when you consider your answer.


How it smells
How long it lasts
How many flies it produces in a month.
It's potential for gutloading Flies
It's ability to be mold free
How fast it produces the first flies.
How easy it is to mix
How expensive it is
How easy it is to source
How well it retains moisture and doesn't dry out
How it holds it's form and doesn't get sloppy and slide around when you turn it over.

What is important to you?

Allen


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## Mitch

Allen Repashy said:


> How it smells
> How long it lasts
> How many flies it produces in a month.
> It's potential for gutloading Flies
> It's ability to be mold free
> How fast it produces the first flies.
> How easy it is to mix
> How expensive it is
> How easy it is to source
> How well it retains moisture and doesn't dry out
> How it holds it's form and doesn't get sloppy and slide around when you turn it over.


I'd say exactly this.


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## Brotherly Monkey

Allen Repashy said:


> Ok, The thread has been reopened and I would like to keep this going a bit.
> 
> First thing is a question I have for you out there as to what you think makes a great culture.....what are YOUR criteria for judging media. I would appreciate some feedback here.
> 
> Here are some things to think about when you consider your answer.
> 
> 
> How it smells
> How long it lasts
> How many flies it produces in a month.
> It's potential for gutloading Flies
> It's ability to be mold free
> How fast it produces the first flies.
> How easy it is to mix
> How expensive it is
> How easy it is to source
> How well it retains moisture and doesn't dry out
> How it holds it's form and doesn't get sloppy and slide around when you turn it over.
> 
> What is important to you?
> 
> Allen


I was under the impression that gut loading wasn't possible in fruit flies?


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## Allen Repashy

Mitch said:


> I'd say exactly this.


Well that doesn't help me much LOL. You need to at least take them and put them in order of importance bacause some things might contradict the others. For example, the culture that produces flies first, isn't necessarily the one that produces the most flies, or lasts the longest, or doesn't mold.


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## Tony

Brotherly Monkey said:


> I was under the impression that gut loading wasn't possible in fruit flies?


Gutloading for calcium content is not, Ed has posted about that before though I don't remember exactly where. He has mentioned that it is possible to increase vitamin A content with a medium containing the right carotenoids and access to light, if I remember correctly actinic bulbs are the best.


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## frogparty

importance for me in a good culture:
1-number of flies produced. All else is secondary. Faster, longer it all comes down to this right here. A good culturing regime will make very fast production or longer culture life unnecessary to me
2- nutritional value of the media/gutload ability. I want a balanced, healthy media that provides as much as it can to the ff's (carolina mix style stuff lacks the interesting additives your media offers Allen
3-how it smells
4-maintains texture(no sloppiness/no dryness) I hate that, and Carolina mix does it a lot if mixed just a TAD too wet or too dry
5-cost
6- mold/bacterial free but this affects #1 so see #1
7-Easy to source-basically all the ame to me because of the internet


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## Brotherly Monkey

Tony said:


> Gutloading for calcium content is not, Ed has posted about that before though I don't remember exactly where. He has mentioned that it is possible to increase vitamin A content with a medium containing the right carotenoids and access to light, if I remember correctly actinic bulbs are the best.


thanks for the clarification


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## Bcs TX

Just placed an order.
Will provide feedback.

-Beth


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## Mitch

Allen Repashy said:


> Well that doesn't help me much LOL. You need to at least take them and put them in order of importance bacause some things might contradict the others. For example, the culture that produces flies first, isn't necessarily the one that produces the most flies, or lasts the longest, or doesn't mold.


Haha, I didn't think it would... I got lazy. So, here's my rankings:

1)How it smells - although it seems a little silly, I hate smelly media. If it smelled like bananas (like your vits) that'd be awesome!
2)How fast it produces the first flies - obviously I'm getting ff media to produce ff's... a lot of ff's... and fast
3)How expensive it is - Cheaper the better, but it's up to you guys haha. Don't sacrifice quality for price though.
4)How well it retains moisture and doesn't dry out - very important to me since my "frog room" isn't very moist and cultures tend to dry out quickly.
5)How many flies it produces in a month - similar to #2
6)How long it lasts - I'd expect at least 4-5 weeks. Like said above a good culture-making schedule means that faster production is not necessary if you always have some cultures that are producing. 
7)It's ability to be mold free - I've never had problems with mold but others do
8)How easy it is to mix - I don't see how fruit fly media could be hard to mix, but it's always nice to just add hot water then stir
9)How easy it is to source - It seems a lot of our sponsors are stocking it ... so not a problem here
10)It's potential for gutloading Flies - if this is in fact possible that'd be great.

Hope this helps!


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## Ed

People should not be looking at the media for time to first production as the majority of the factors affecting this will be due to a genetic component (see http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/JEvolBio00.pdf ) These same genetic factors are going to play a strong role in production of the cultures assuming that protein isn't the limiting factor. 

Faster time to production is also an indication that the flies may not be "all they could be" in terms of size and nutrition. See http://www.jncasr.ac.in/eobu/prasadetal2.pdf as there is a strong correlation between shorter developmental time and reduced ability to process nutrients and other factors.... 


Keep in mind that a culture that lasts past 30 days is an invitation for a mite explosion... 

There is good information that you cannot change the calcium to phosphorus ratio in the flies as they have a super efficient mechanism to secrete surplus calcium. As for other nutrients they have a gut transit time of less than 6 hours for adult flies. That means their gut contents have a 100% turnover within 6 hours.


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## Reef_Haven

Apparently one person has already tried it and rated it. I won't quote his comment, but you can see it here under the REVIEWS tab dated 2/21/11. 
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL :: SuperFly 16 oz BAG (one pound) - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Allen,
Can you give us a ballpark figure of the actual protein%. I know your site says minimum 5%.


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## Allen Repashy

Great info Ed, thanks for that.

One thing in regards to this that I would like to mention is that in my instructions, I don't include the requirement for the addition of a bakers yeast sprinkle. I found that its use may result in faster initial emergence for some reason, but that it isn't necessary at all to produce a good culture. So for those of you out there testing, please use it according to the directions, and then feel free to also do a culture with bakers yeast, or whatever other things you like to do. Vinegar is also totally unnecessary using SuperFly, but some of you will probably want to use it anyways, so let me know what you find out.

Ed also has pointed out that fruit flies will quickly adapt to a particular media over generations, so I am curious as to how long established colonies on other media adapt to SuperFly. I don't expect to out perform every other media in every situation, but I hope that overall, it will be found to be worth the effort I put into developing it. Using Bakers yeast might be a help in converting flies from one media to another for best performance, so I am curious as to these observations.

I am also not intent on these results possibly making other peoples media look bad by name, so I would prefer that comparisons be restricted to "the brand I use" or brand A, brand B. at least in the public forum. 

Allen


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## Ed

If it is close to 5% then it is about right. Levels of protien above that do not enhance growth or development and in strains that are sensitive to ammonia actually decrease production. 

Ed


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## Allen Repashy

as Ed mentions, 5% in at least this paper is the turning point from good to bad in the protein levels. It is important to understand though that these levels are for solutions, not dry powder. a few important notes are that the type of protein used makes a big difference. The test was also done in the absence of any significant source of carbohydrates other than 1% sugar. This paper also states that anything over 2% protein (casein) provides enough that survival and average weight are unchanged until you reach over 5%. The main difference between 2% and 5% solutions is that the lower protein level solutions take a little longer for the cultures to get going. Basically, it takes the larvae longer to mature on lower protein, than high protein, though the end result is the same an a matter of 24-48 hours in our typical culturing conditions.

Adding more protein to the formula effects the media considerably, as it is quicker to spoil, meaning you need more preservatives, which can reduce production and put you back where you started from.

The formula as I shipped it, and mixed according to the directions should equate to about 3.5%. (The label is just a minimum level on a dry matter basis).

I honestly have gone back and forth between this level and about 4.5% and every time I run the cultures, I get different results. 

I would say that in general, the cultures start about a day sooner on higher protein, but my observation is that the lower protein cultures look better at three weeks.

If anyone has dried brewers yeast, I would love to get your feedback from adding 5% Brewers yeast to the Superfly and comparing it side by side with the out of the bag mix. If you do it, please do it with an accurate scale and make sure you get it right. It won't be perfect, but if you take 47.5 grams and add 2.5 grams brewers yeast, that would be good. or if you want to get crazy, try 45 grams and 5 grams also . (about what you need for one culture)

The more feedback I get, the more I can fine tune this product and make it all it can be 

Allen


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## Reef_Haven

My order has already shipped.
Thank you.
I'll try to set up a design of experiment rather than anecdotal. I do have access to accurate scales.


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## Ed

Unless I otherwise specify, I look at stuff on a dry matter basis as that is usually the conditions under which most analysis are reported. 

Ed


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## Ed

Allen Repashy said:


> Great info Ed, thanks for that.
> 
> One thing in regards to this that I would like to mention is that in my instructions, I don't include the requirement for the addition of a bakers yeast sprinkle. I found that its use may result in faster initial emergence for some reason, but that it isn't necessary at all to produce a good culture. So for those of you out there testing, please use it according to the directions, and then feel free to also do a culture with bakers yeast, or whatever other things you like to do. Vinegar is also totally unnecessary using SuperFly, but some of you will probably want to use it anyways, so let me know what you find out.
> 
> Ed also has pointed out that fruit flies will quickly adapt to a particular media over generations, so I am curious as to how long established colonies on other media adapt to SuperFly. I don't expect to out perform every other media in every situation, but I hope that overall, it will be found to be worth the effort I put into developing it. Using Bakers yeast might be a help in converting flies from one media to another for best performance, so I am curious as to these observations.
> 
> I am also not intent on these results possibly making other peoples media look bad by name, so I would prefer that comparisons be restricted to "the brand I use" or brand A, brand B. at least in the public forum.
> 
> Allen


Hi Allen,

Sorry I missed this earlier. 

the other thing the addition of some baker's yeast does is that it encourages egg deposition to occur more rapidly as it is one of the indicators of a suitable food source. Othewise, it takes longer for deposition to occur (often when the yeast and microbes brought in with the flies really take off). This could be why you saw a more rapid production between those cultures that included it versus those that didn't. Outside of that, I would next look at the temperatures in the cultures.. I have temperature gunned some of mine and had them be as much as 3 F higher than the temperature of the shelf they are sitting on.. 

Ed


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## fleshfrombone

Hey Allen, when I got confirmation that my order was shipped it listed one bag sent, do the other two not show up on the confirmation page?


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## mongo77

fleshfrombone said:


> Hey Allen, when I got confirmation that my order was shipped it listed one bag sent, do the other two not show up on the confirmation page?


Same here.


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## Allen Repashy

The orders were processed and I decided to only send everyone one bag each and just keep the change...... 

Actually, the orders were just processed as received on paper, but if you ordered one bag, you will get three in the mail.

Cheers, Allen


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## fleshfrombone

Allen Repashy said:


> The orders were processed and I decided to only send everyone one bag each and just keep the change......
> 
> Actually, the orders were just processed as received on paper, but if you ordered one bag, you will get three in the mail.
> 
> Cheers, Allen


Hahahha, brutal.


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## randfp

I got mine this afternoon...and there are three 1 lb pouches. Thanks Allen.


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## gabbygenier

Just put in my order. Can't wait to try this out. Your other products are awesome


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## Tony

Just placed my order. I have brewers yeast, so I'll try your experiment.


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## frogfreak

Some things to consider when testing a product. It needs to be controlled to the best of your ability.

-You need a controlled area for temps and RH. Even a swing a 2F can delay or speed up and emergance by 1 day.

-You need a good scale to weigh the amount of flies the culture was started with or count them.

-The cultures would have be started with the same flies from the same emergance.

-Then after you get a hatch you would have to weigh the flies again repeatedly until the culture expired. The end of a culture is at the four week mark for me. An option would be to freeze the flies and count them.

-IMO even the use of coffee filters or excelsior will change the end result too.

My guess is that most people don't have the ability to control most of these things, so the results could be very random. 

Some thoughts...


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## frogparty

While I agree with you on this, I think you can still get an overall "feel" for the productivity of a medium without all the extra work. If you've been culturing flies for a long period of time in the same environment, then you have a pretty decent idea as to what to expect from your cultures. 

I plan on trying this new medium with and without the addition of extra yeast, but thats really the only variable I am planning on adding. Otherwise, it will just be the same method I have always used-glass jars with coffee filter lids with excelsior inside for extra surface area. I will note that with the carolina mix Ive been using, I usually use 1/2 cup media dry with just over 1/2 cup H2O. If it is reccomended that I use only 1/4 cup media to 2/3 cup H2O with this media, then total number of flies produced should be based on a flies vs dry weight basis, not on a flies per culture basis. 
I do NOT plan on weighing out all the flies I produce , but I suppose I could. I really feel like a side by side comparison of cultures started at the same time will provide adequate enough results. I will take info such as:
*Date culture made
*date of first larvae noticed in media
*date of first hatch out
*RELATIVE number of flies obtained each harvest-ie which cultures produced more harvestable flies each harvest. While this might vary per harvest, I think an overall tally of "more" or "less should be sufficient to provide a clear picture of productivity
*total number of harvests from each culture
*Date of final harvest of flies
*State of the medium throughout culture cycle-sloppy, dried out etc. 

While its not as scientific as it COULD be, I think it will provide an overall idea of the productivity of the media in general, more than enough to provide feedback on this product.
I do have a scale capable of weighing out to 1/10 of a gram, but a 1/100 gram scale would be much better for this
Then it would be much easier to do a conversion of dry weight to product calculation....Actually, I think I will do this anyways with one culture of each media type. But I believe there are a lot of ff's per gram, so only being accurate to 0.1 gram might not be as good as I would like it to be


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## Allen Repashy

I have been thinking long and hard about the can of worms I opened up here LOL. 

I agree with both of you!

Getting scientific based feedback is going to be really difficult.

I also didn't really consider that long established cultures on one media might just not do as well on another media because they have adapted over generations to the media they are on... kind of like changing a dogs food after they have been eating one brand for five years...... 

But even if the production differences will be hard to measure, things like mold resistance, texture, difference between with, or without active yeast, odor, and the like, should be good topics for feedback.

Allen


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## frogparty

Yes, the general feedback will be the most valuable to the average purchaser of this product
EASE OF USE-in my opinion covers the mold thing, smell thing, and the texture aspect
OVERALL PRODUCTION- not necessarily quickness of production, just overall consistency and yield-number of harvests obtained should be good info
BENEFIT OF ADDITIONAL YEAST-is it worth it? 

If I do decide to weigh out the dry media and all the flies from a culture, I can produce a cost per gram of flies produced number, which would be invaluable. 
Then I would repeat after a few generations on the new media, to see if there is a noticable change in production. Theoretically, Id do this at generation 1, 4, 7, to give it a good window of time to allow the flies to adapt to the new media. Since my house remains at a consistent 68 degrees, variables can be controlled pretty well


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## Boondoggle

Whoa, I agreed to feedback, not supplying empirical data based on lab quality testing! 

I will run comparisons with and without yeast with 2-3 types of flies in comparable conditions. I will compare it to my current media, tell you what I like better, tell what I don't care for, compare price and either switch over, or not. I will list in order of preference the factors Allen proposed, and even ask the frogs what tasted better.

That's it.


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## Ed

frogparty said:


> .Actually, I think I will do this anyways with one culture of each media type. But I believe there are a lot of ff's per gram, so only being accurate to 0.1 gram might not be as good as I would like it to be


 
from this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...-split-beginners-discussion-4.html#post384033



> if you read through that thread, the average weight of a wingless D. melanogaster was in one trial was found to be 7.53 E-4 grams per fly.


\

I used a scale that was good to 0.0001 to get that weight. 

Ed


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## frogparty

Thank you Ed. I have access to an analytical balance at school, but I don't know if I will be bringing containers of flies to school to weigh.


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## frogmanchu

got my superfly today thanks allen will start my cultures tonight after work


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## Azurel

Got mine as well....Thanks Allen will start some cultures a.s.a.p


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## fleshfrombone

frogparty said:


> Thank you Ed. I have access to an analytical balance at school, but I don't know if I will be bringing containers of flies to school to weigh.


Why not? Afraid of being labeled as "that" guy?


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## frogparty

exactly. 
My media arrived today, 1st round of cultures coming up


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## BBoyette

Just got mines in today, cant wait to hear/see the results.


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## Yobosayo

My bags arrived today as well, tomorrow I start some side by sides.


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## Allen Repashy

Here are some tips for those of you who already have media and are going to start making cultures.

You can use hot water or cold water because the preservatives I use are cold water soluble at the low concentrations I use them at. The main difference is going to be how quickly the powder absorbs the water. mixed cold, it can take half a day to fully hydrate the mix. Using hot tap water, the initial absorption is quick to about 90% and then it will still thicken up over the course of an hour or two. Using boiling water will near instantly cause full hydration of the powder.

The formula of 1/4 cup to 2/3 cup is best done using two measuring spoons, rather than measuring it in an actual glass cup and will be more accurate.

This formula, once hydrated according to notes above, will create a mix that might be thinner than some of you are used to but I have found it to work best. Feel free to do it however you like, but mix at least a few this way.

A smooth surface makes a better culture than a lumpy one imho, so if it comes out a bit watery, I do two things to get it just rite. First, you can simply leave the culture with the lid off until it evaporates a bit, or second, and what I prefer, is to simply take some dry powder and sprinkle it over the surface of the media to form a bit of a crust on top. Bottom line is make sure the media is fully hydrated before you make any adjustments, and make sure the surface of the media isn't too wet.

All you need to do is have it dry enough so the adult flies don't stick and drown.

That's it for now.

Allen


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## frogparty

initial observations: 
the dry mix smells really good. 
absorbance with boiling water is still much slower than Im used to with carolina mix, but the mixed media seems to have a really good texture once absorbed


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## Mitch

frogparty said:


> initial observations:
> the dry mix smells really good.
> absorbance with boiling water is still much slower than Im used to with carolina mix, but the mixed media seems to have a really good texture once absorbed


I found the same thing. 

I'm bummed it doesn't smell like bananas haha. Also, I found that this media "expands" much more than any other mix I've tried. 1/4 cup of media seems to fill up the same amount as 1/2 cup of Josh's Frogs media... pretty cool!


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## chas79

Hey I received mine as well today. I made a culture with the media I have used for 7 months and the superfly media. Like has been said it does seem to expand more than others and my girlfriend loves the smell. (couldn't get the bag out of her hand. Should that worry me??) I have both cultures side by side will let you know how it goes.


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## Allen Repashy

I guess I can't edit my posts after a certain amount of time, so I will add this to the tips. 

Mixing it with warm or hot tap water will allow you to get a nice flat surface on the media before it totally expands, Then a minute or so in the microwave will insure total hydration of the media and sterilize the culture at the same time, though it does puff up a little this way and doesn't make as nice if a surface as other methods. I think it is because it is evaporating some of the water out this way, so you might need to adjust with a little more water initially.


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## PeanutbuttER

I got mine today. Initial impression: These bags look like space food! 

Saturday is culture day, so they are of yet unopened.


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## Azurel

OK I made 4 cups of media( 2 superfly and 2 of product A) and I can honestly say I didn't think the 1/4 cup was enough media when looking at 2/3s cup of water. Then it all of a sudden expanded......So far I like the smoothness of the product seems to blend without much effort. I don't really do much outside of directions on fly media so it will be a side by side comparison as the directions state. Plan to put some flies in once it cools down then it will be waiting time.


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## NathanB

Wheres the 1st part of the thread, or am I missing something?


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## gary1218

How about the addition of coffee filters or excelsior? What is everybody using?

Allen - did you try both when you were testing your recipe? Any differences in using coffee filters or excelsior?

Thanks.


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## Allen Repashy

The thread got butchered when it was moved to the feedback forum, and then moved back here. It looks like my original post is totally gone . This was my whole introduction AND my feedback request/offer... maybe a mod still has it in the back end of the site somewhere and can restore it?

Actually, in most of my tests, I didn't use excelsior OR coffee filters. I used nothing at all. This way it was very easy to see how many pupae were being produced because they were all on the sides of the container.


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## gary1218

Allen Repashy said:


> Actually, in most of my tests, I didn't use excelsior OR coffee filters. I used nothing at all. This way it was very easy to see how many pupae were being produced because they were all on the sides of the container.


So is that how you're recommending we use your product, no coffee filters or excelsior?


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## Allen Repashy

No, that is just how I did it to easily count pupae. You can do it however you have been doing it because I don't expect a lot of scientific feedback here......but if you do a lot of cultures, or are going to count pupae like I did, you could try this method.


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## frogparty

Im using excelsior. Last night I made 1 culture superfly with additional yeast, one without.We'll see how it goes


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## oddlot

I received mine today.I make my cultures on the weekend. With Frog day it will be Sunday.I'll make some superfly and my recipe. Lou


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## PeanutbuttER

Would it be smart to refridgerate the bags we're not using? or not important with this mix?


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## Allen Repashy

you will use it up long before it goes bad, don't worry about it.

Allen


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## dmartin72

What was the offer?


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## frogparty

buy 1 lb, get 2lbs free with the promotional code he put up in the original post. I think its expired now though, not sure
the deal was that you had to agree to provide constructive feedback and observations on the usability and productivity of the product


----------



## Bcs TX

I received my order yesterday. Bought 1 16 ounce and got 2 free.
My question is when I read the instructions it did not say anything about using excelsior or coffee filters.
I will be culturing ff this weekend with the repashy product and my home made media. Will see how it does and give some feedback.

-Beth


----------



## Allen Repashy

You can use whatever you want to provide surface area for the flies just as any other media.

Everyone should have their SuperFly that ordered early last week, and be making media by now 

Cheers, Allen


----------



## Boondoggle

Allen Repashy said:


> You can use whatever you want to provide surface area for the flies just as any other media.
> 
> Everyone should have their SuperFly that ordered early last week, and be making media by now
> 
> Cheers, Allen


I made 6 cultures today, 4 of them SuperFly, 2 my old standard. I'm keeping track of my actions/observation in a journal which I will post in a month or so after they have run their course. Thanks again, Allen.


----------



## Tony

Made my test cultures today. 2/3 of a cup was not nearly enough water to fully hydrate the mix, but after adding more and mixing it up all seems to be well.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Thanks Tony,

This is good feedback. How did it mix for the others who followed the instructions? It is difficult to come with exact instructions by volume and not weight, but I think it needs to be easy and this is a pretty close measurement. I am sure you all have noticed that the mix absorbs more water than other medias. 

If everyone is in consensus that it needs a little more than 2/3 cup of water to balance out 1/4 cup of media, I can adjust by adding a bit more brewers yeast, which doesn't absorb water. This would also add a little more protein, which like I said before, I keep going back and forth on by a percentage point. So for those of you out there who have mixed it up, how did you find the ratio to work for you? Did you need to add more water? Tony, did you use measuring spoons, or a cup?

Allen


----------



## Tony

I used 1/4 cup and 1/3 cup spoons.


----------



## Azurel

Allen Repashy said:


> Thanks Tony,
> 
> This is good feedback. How did it mix for the others who followed the instructions? It is difficult to come with exact instructions by volume and not weight, but I think it needs to be easy and this is a pretty close measurement. I am sure you all have noticed that the mix absorbs more water than other medias.
> 
> If everyone is in consensus that it needs a little more than 2/3 cup of water to balance out 1/4 cup of media, I can adjust by adding a bit more brewers yeast, which doesn't absorb water. This would also add a little more protein, which like I said before, I keep going back and forth on by a percentage point. So for those of you out there who have mixed it up, how did you find the ratio to work for you? Did you need to add more water? Tony, did you use measuring spoons, or a cup?
> 
> Allen


I used a measuring spoon, the first batch I made the 2/3 was enough, but the second one I had to add a bit more water. I am not sure but it could have been in my case the first one, the water was hotter then the second. I am going to make 3 more tomorrow and will do it exactly the same and see what happends. If I have to add more water this time I will measure how much more this way I can have some numbers to report back to you.


----------



## frogparty

I added the exact amount as per instructions on the bag. Full absorption takes a long time, but it ended up being enough for me, using boiling water

I think next time Ill put 1/8 cup media in jar, then 1/3 cup h2o, then another 1/8cup media, then another 1/3 cup h2o and see if the mixing doesnt become easier


----------



## fleshfrombone

I've noticed the same. I poured 1/3 cup of medium in a deli cup, added 2/3 cup of boiling water, attempted to stir, boy the stuff expands end gets thick quick.


----------



## NathanB

Did the 1st part of this ever get reposted?


----------



## Allen Repashy

fleshfrombone said:


> I've noticed the same. I poured 1/3 cup of medium in a deli cup, added 2/3 cup of boiling water, attempted to stir, boy the stuff expands end gets thick quick.


the instructions say 1/4 cup. 1/3 cup is WAY too much


----------



## fleshfrombone

Allen Repashy said:


> the instructions say 1/4 cup. 1/3 cup is WAY too much


I think you should know I also colored outside the lines as a kid... never been one for directions. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Boondoggle

Weird. I used measuring spoons and mixed with boiling water exactly as the directions stated and it actually came out wetter than I expected. I thought it was going to be a problem, but after letting them cool I could turn them upside down without dislodging the medium, so it seemed fine. 

It still came out wetter than brand "J" and I use about 120% of the recommended amount of water on it.

Out of curiosity, Allen, how many flies do you add to start a culture? I read 30-50 elsewhere, but I find 100+ really gets a culture booming quick.


----------



## frogparty

I use the extremely calibrated volume of "however many fall into the new culture with a few taps from the old culture" If I to guess how many, Id say close to 100


----------



## Reef_Haven

Boondoggle said:


> Out of curiosity, Allen, how many flies do you add to start a culture? I read 30-50 elsewhere, but I find 100+ really gets a culture booming quick.


Adding too many flies can cause a problem. If you get too many larvae right away, their waste will produce alot of ammonia in the media and they may evacuate the media before they are ready for their final molt. You need to balance the number of flies/mags with the amount of media used.


----------



## Boondoggle

Reef_Haven said:


> Adding too many flies can cause a problem. If you get too many larvae right away, their waste will produce alot of ammonia in the media and they may evacuate the media before they are ready for their final molt. You need to balance the number of flies/mags with the amount of media used.


Never heard this...good to know. My issue is usually the opposite. When I add 30-50 it seems the culture doesn't really get booming until it's drying out and getting mold.


----------



## Allen Repashy

I didn't see any issues with 100 flies, but I think many people misjudge what 100 flies looks like. I know that what I thought was 50 flies by eyeballing it turned out to be about a hundred when I actually counted them.


----------



## Azurel

I guess I have not been adding enough only eye balling I have only been adding about 20-30 flies tops. It does seem to take a little long for them to get booming but once they do get going nothing seems to hold them back.

I don't plan on changing how many I add though seems to have worked in the past.


----------



## Reef_Haven

I probably use a little less media than most people.
I use 80 - 100 flies for 1 inch of media, which is pretty much exhausted in 4 weeks. I don't want to have much media left over at 4 weeks cause I'm dumping it then regardless.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Starting with fewer flies can leave you with a lot of unspent media after 4 weeks no doubt. 

As Reef says, in a perfect world, you will exhaust most of your media by the time you toss it, thought you do need a decent mass to prevent dehydration at the end. The biggest thing I noticed is that there is greater potential for mold when you start with less cultures because the larvae, once feeding, will do a great job of keeping the media live and prevent the formation of mold.


----------



## Reef_Haven

I keep going back to the ingedients list and keep thinking that surely this media should produce healthier flies than just potato flakes, brewers yeast and sugar. Just not sure how you quantify healthier flies.
Guess I will weigh a few hundred flies from each culture, to see if there is any difference in body mass since I have access to an analytical balance.
The other thing I keep thinking is that the larvae should be better at transfering the vitamins, minerals and additives to our frogs than the flies.
The only problem is how well our frogs are able to digest larvae. I know firsthand my frogs pass black soldier fly larvae thru whole.


----------



## Azurel

OK I made 3 new batches and had to add an extra 1/3 of water to get it fully hydrated. After adding the extra 1/3 of a cup of water there look to be no unhydrated media and the media mixed to a nice smooth cosistancy.

So far I really like the product will wait and see how the flies do to the first batch and will be adding flies to the new ones. I will add more flies to these as it seems I may have not been adding enough.


----------



## PeanutbuttER

I made one culture and it hydrated fully without any problems. I used boiling hot water from the microwave.


----------



## dtfleming

Mixed mine per instructions. No problems mixing


----------



## Reef_Haven

I started my first test at 9:00PM 5/12
This is how they look 5 days in.
Culture on the right is Superfly. I did everything by weight. The water to media weight was 3.5 to 1 for Superfly 40g media 140g hot water. The starting weight of each culture was the same 180g net.
I added about 50 granules of active yeast to the surface of each culture, and 80 - 100 melanos each.


----------



## JJhuang

the Rapashy looks really red is that because of the color enhancer?


----------



## Allen Repashy

Yeah, all the carotenoids are blocking the view LOL. It looks like there must be significant activity on the walls for all the color to be up, but the one in the middle is definitely producing more pupae right off unless they are all on one side of the container like I often see. It is hard to see how many pupae are on the superfly through the orange, so a description might help. I am actually surprised to see much of anything at five days as I just start to see pupae on any of the media I test on day five... but I am at a room temp of 70. What is your room temp and when did you see the first pupae?

Allen


----------



## frogparty

my room temp is 68, and I am just seeing pupae in the media today. Same with the other media Im comparing to


----------



## Reef_Haven

Sorry,
Should have included temps. These were above my lights at ~79°F.
My room temp is 75°F
Here is a closeup of the Superfly. I would say about 100 chrysalis formed so far.
Yes, the flies have definitely been tracking the paprika and other additives.


----------



## Allen Repashy

For those of you who have mixed some up already, I have a question for you.

I have used a different kind of potato vs. the flakes everyone else uses. It has what I think are good properties, but it mixes up differently. As many of you have commented, by volume, it holds a lot more water than the traditional flakes do. 
The reason I like it is because once hydrated, it is a lot less sticky than flakes and it is easier to get a nice consistent, and non chunky blend. It also tends to not get sloppy over time like some of the flake medias I tested that mix up well, but start to get slushy after a couple weeks. 
The cost of this is that it is not as quick to hydrate, and takes a little more stirring. I think the different comments made about variations in how much water is required to hydrate the mix might be in part due to the different water temps being used. Using boiling water will release more starch and absorb more water.. 

So the question is so far... is it easy enough to mix, and does anyone but me see the difference in the finished consistency? I can go to a fine flake that will absorb water more quickly, but I don't think the finished media is as good... but the customer is always right, so please give me some opinions on mixing and texture over the course...... 

Thanks again to those of you who have given me feedback in this thread and via PM. I think a lot of people just wanted the good deal because I have heard from less than 10% of the people who ordered the product 

Allen


----------



## Tony

I didn't find it difficult to stir, it just took a little extra water. If it holds together over the life of the culture then it is definitely worth keeping, I'm so tired of older cultures suddenly sliding into my dusting cup when I try to harvest the flies.


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## chas79

I didn't seem to have a problem to mix the media at all. I like the consistency much better than what I was using before. I set my superfly culture and my previous media culture up on 5/11 and looked at them today and I saw about double the amount of chrysalis on the side of the cup with superfly. So far I am pretty impressed.


----------



## frogparty

two days ago I first noticed pupae ascending out of the media and onto the sides of the jars and up into the excelsior in the repashy mix with the addition of bakers yeast.

yesterday I noticed pupae ascension in the culture without the additional yeast. 

These cultures are approximately a day and two days behind the carolina mix with the addition of bakers yeast, but I am noticing more total pupae in the superfly media.

Another interesting observation: The carotenoids are distinctly noticable in the active pupae, as they are a nice orangish color in comparison to the pupae in the carolina mix which are the normal translucent white color. 

Obviously these pupae are easily uptaking the extra goodies in the superfly media, and while I cannot say whether they will be excreted before the adult flies can be consumed, the pupae I feed out will definitely be chock full of goodness for my frogs.


----------



## frogparty

Tony said:


> I didn't find it difficult to stir, it just took a little extra water. If it holds together over the life of the culture then it is definitely worth keeping, I'm so tired of older cultures suddenly sliding into my dusting cup when I try to harvest the flies.


That grosses me out to the max!!! I have had that happen several times with other mixes, 
the excelsior just slows the slide


----------



## Allen Repashy

Thanks guys, this is the kind of feedback I need. The comparison to the Carolina mix with and without yeast is interesting. Your results in regards to starting a little slower, but catching up and surpassing within a few days are a mirror to my experience. 
A little more protein might stimulate an earlier emergence, the question is, how the culture with more protein holds up over the four week duration. I will wait until these cultures run their course, and then, for those who have been making contributions, I might just make up a higher protein batch to do another round side by side with this version, and whatever else you are comparing it to... 
I really enjoy the fine tuning process, and am really all ears on this. I don't expect everyone will like the stuff, but I can guarantee that whatever you say, it will contribute to the development of the product. 
I think the stuff is good, or I wouldn't have put it out there... but I always think it can be better, especially with it being fresh out of the box and not tested in a multitude of environments with such variations as temperature, humidity, differently evolved flies, etc.

Has anyone set up hydei for a test?


----------



## frogparty

yes, bakers yeast in the carolina mix. Always have added it. The mix comes with the yeast to add so Ive just always added about 2 dozen grains to the top of the cooled media before the excesior goes in. 

My production is also going to be a few days behind some other folks here, becase my flies are all cultured at room temp ~68 degrees~. Other people keep theirs 10 degrees or so warmer than I do, and get faster fly production. I can't make definite arguments for this, but my mite problems have dropped to zero since I quit keeping my fly cultures warm. Maybe its just the location in my house where I am culturing them now vs before, but Im so happy to not have to deal with mites anymore I wont ever culture my flies with additional heat again


----------



## Tony

Allen Repashy said:


> Has anyone set up hydei for a test?


I did, three unmodified cultures and one with the 5% protein boost, all using golden hydei. I will set up blacks also as soon as I get a boom from my current cultures.


----------



## ruthieb

Has anyone set up hydei for a test?[/QUOTE]


I have. I set two melos and two hydei yesterday, all four exactly to the directions and with no additional yeast. My reason for doing this is to see how it performs with no alterations....uhhhh and I was out of yeast

All four were set up with excelsior.

I can't wait to see how these turn out.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Tony said:


> I did, three unmodified cultures and one with the 5% protein boost, all using golden hydei. I will set up blacks also as soon as I get a boom from my current cultures.


5% more protein, (meaning about 12% more brewers yeast) or 5% more brewers yeast?


----------



## Chris155hp

Allen Repashy said:


> .
> 
> Thanks again to those of you who have given me feedback in this thread and via PM. I think a lot of people just wanted the good deal because I have heard from less than 10% of the people who ordered the product
> 
> Allen


Hey Allan sorry that I haven't provided feedback yet but I will soon. I had just set up new cultures when the deal came out. Ill be doing some testing as soon as its time to setup new cultures. I am quite anxious to set them up myself and see what this stuff can really do


----------



## Tony

Allen Repashy said:


> 5% more protein, (meaning about 12% more brewers yeast) or 5% more brewers yeast?


5% more brewers yeast, I followed the 47.5 gram superfly/2.5 gram brewers yeast recipe that you posted earlier in the thread.


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## SamsonsFrogs

The more I read the more I want to get involved. Expect an order here soon Allen!
Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G Slide using Tapatalk


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## earthfrog

It takes a few days for the larvae to get going. I bet more folks get back to you soon, Allen, when their cultures take off. 

So far, it's day 3 into the culture for me and larvae are not yet visible. I will post when I can compare production/quality to my standard homemade media.


----------



## Reef_Haven

frogparty said:


> Obviously these pupae are easily uptaking the extra goodies in the superfly media, and while I cannot say whether they will be excreted before the adult flies can be consumed, the pupae I feed out will definitely be chock full of goodness for my frogs.


Have you noticed larvae being passed whole in the frogs stool? I believe they don't digest larvae cuticle well because of the high level of chitin. Since the gut load is quite red, it should be easy to tell whether the larvae are being passed whole or if the frogs are able to utilize the internal mass of the larvae and only the cuticle is being passed.


----------



## Reef_Haven

Allen,
I'll post updated photos this evening.
I'll be releasing all my original flies in my cultures today, since my pupae should begin hatching tomorrow. I don't want the original flies skewing any observations of the hatchlings. 
I should have some observation about the texture of the medias, when dumping flies from an active culture.
I'll also be starting new cultures today, and a mini culture just for mags.


----------



## gary1218

Hi Allen,

First of all, THANKS again for the 2 free bags of food. Here's some initial feedback.

I started 3 cultures on 5/14/11. One was set up per your package instructions, one was set up per your package instructions PLUS a little sprinkle of active yeast, one culture was set up with my current media. For my current media I do 1/4 cup media, 1/2 cup VERY hot water and a little sprinkle of active yeast.

After cooling I added 3 coffee filters to all 3 cultures and "about" the same number of flies, maybe 100 or so.

Today, 5/20/11, I observed for the first time larvae starting to crawl up the sides of the cup in all 3 cultures. But, the production in your 2 cultures is significantly more than what I see in my current media. Plus the larvae look plumper in your cultures.

I'll let you know when I get the first hatch outs and how the numbers compare between the 3 cultures.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Reef_Haven

I went to release the flies this afternoon and discovered there were only about 20 flies in the Superfly culture. I am sure I started each culture with the same number of flies, and I'm pretty sure they didn't escape, lid was sealed, no holes or cracks. I think, since I had no substrate for them to climb on they may have fallen in and drowned, although I really didn't see any flies in the media either. The surface of the media looked a bit wetter than my other two cultures, but actually stuck to the cup better when dumping the flies. My other two cultures definitely had media slide when dumping the flies, again no substrate probably made this worse than usual.
Unfortunately my numbers will now be skewed going forward; except maybe for average fly body mass. I'll set up a new trial tomorrow.


----------



## Azurel

OK the first batch I have made in this test was made on 5/12/11 as of Wed 5/18/11, I have noticed an enormous amount of papua and larvae in the first initial batches of Repashy. Just eye balling I would have to say it is easily 2x-3x the amount of media A. I don't have time to actually count each batch and the other media. 

But I can say I have not gotten initial production in the other media as I have with this. Also note in these batches I added much less flies(20-30) to them then others that are testing the product as the amount of flies I have added initially were what I have done in the past. So for the lower amount of flies to produce this amount of larvae is quite amazing. I did however add 50-100 flies to the second set of batches I made and they have not started to produce yet.

I can try and get some pics of my Repashy cultures tomorrow I also noticed that the larvae and papua are more orange and have more color tint to them then other media I have used.

You asked about changing the type of flake to a finer flake to absorb water faster, I wouldn't do it. If I have to add a little more water so be it if this is the type of production I get from the media. Having to add more water is not a major concern for me anyway.


----------



## rozdaboff

Allen -

I also want to say thank you for the generous offer of free media.

Last Sunday I set up some cultures of your media side-by-side cultures of my mix (Modified Carolina) for melanogaster, as well as your media side-by-side with another commercial medium for hydei (black and golden) as well as buzzati.

I checked on the cultures tonight. For the hydei and buzzati - I am just starting to see small larvae in all cultures, so it is too early to comment. For the melanogaster - I see more larvae and larger larvae in my modified Carolina mix (1 large box potato flakes, 1.5c powdered sugar, 2.5c brewers yeast, 1/8c paprika, 1/8c cinnamon, Methyl Paraben) - but production is probably only one day ahead of the Repashy mix - so again - it is too early to tell. All cultures are kept in an insulated cabinet maintained at 78-80F.

However, I did find that mixing the Repashy mix was a bit of a pain. I may be in the minority, but I have a moderately sized collection and make 14-16 cultures of flies a week. My schedule is tight, so the less time I spend making cultures, the more time I have to spend checking up on my frogs. I find that mixes made with potato flakes mix faster (just swirling) than with potato granules (need to be stirred). They also absorb water faster.

I also feel that the 1/4c medium, 2/3c medium is going to be way too much medium in the long run for the length of time I want to keep cultures going. For me, I prefer reliable, quick blooms of large numbers of flies in a small window of time so that I can make fewer cultures each week, and keep fewer actively producing cultures in an effort to keep mites to a minimum. I don't keep cultures longer than 3 weeks (melanogaster) or 4 weeks (hydei).

I will do another round of cultures this week using the recommended mixing instructions - but then I might try halfing the recipe (1/8c medium and 1/3rd cup water) to see how that works.

Regardless - it is great to see you trying this out and working so closely with hobbyists to come up with the best product possible.

Rob "Oz" Ossiboff, DVM, PhD




Allen Repashy said:


> Thanks guys, this is the kind of feedback I need. The comparison to the Carolina mix with and without yeast is interesting. Your results in regards to starting a little slower, but catching up and surpassing within a few days are a mirror to my experience.
> A little more protein might stimulate an earlier emergence, the question is, how the culture with more protein holds up over the four week duration. I will wait until these cultures run their course, and then, for those who have been making contributions, I might just make up a higher protein batch to do another round side by side with this version, and whatever else you are comparing it to...
> I really enjoy the fine tuning process, and am really all ears on this. I don't expect everyone will like the stuff, but I can guarantee that whatever you say, it will contribute to the development of the product.
> I think the stuff is good, or I wouldn't have put it out there... but I always think it can be better, especially with it being fresh out of the box and not tested in a multitude of environments with such variations as temperature, humidity, differently evolved flies, etc.
> 
> Has anyone set up hydei for a test?


----------



## Allen Repashy

Reef,

Great pictures, thanks for taking the time. Yeah.. if you were down to 20 flies, then it could really have messed with production depending if the drowned on day 1 or day 6 if that's what happened to them. 

Might want to go ahead and make a more "regular" culture with coffee filters or excelsior. One thing you can do to insure a dry surface is just sprinkle some dry SuperFly on the surface to form a bit of a crust if you mix it too wet. 

The hotter the better for the water too.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Rob,

Thanks for the honest feedback, I look forward to it again in a week to see how things progress. One question.... are you using hot tap water, or boiling water when you make the cultures?

Smaller cultures should mix quicker also, so let us know how that goes. I agree that with most cultures, the typical amount people use is too much... but that is the topic of another thread I think. I do like your strategy. 

For me, time is money and because I am so busy (like you), I always have to put a value on my time..... So what you really need to do is look at the bigger picture. 
What about the time it takes you to go out and get your ingredients and mix them up in the dry form before you make the cultures... 
That should counter the extra time it takes to mix my stuff 

It sounds like you are using a lot of brewers yeast in your mix, which should definitely produce a fast bloom. You can also try adding another 5% brewers yeast to my mix and see if the culture comes on faster this way ( see previous posts about me going back and forth on protein levels) 

Also, did you use bakers yeast on my media or your mix, or both?

Thanks again, Allen


----------



## rozdaboff

Allen -

I am using hot water, but not boiling - again for time considerations as previously noted (less time for cultures to cool before flies can be added). Although, I see in some posts here that boiling water might make for a faster mix.

I will try a protein boost over the next few weeks after I see how the media works as you intended it. 

I just wanted to make sure to leave feedback ASAP since you were generous enough to provide the media discount.

I use bakers yeast on my cultures. I didn't add any to yours because it was not in the instructions - and I didn't want to make any alterations without trying it as recommended.

Oz


----------



## Allen Repashy

Thanks Rob,

As far as the directions go, I just tried to dummy them down as much as possible because my product is intended for retail store sales as well as to the educated user. 

I just didn't want someone to get home with the media and then read the directions about adding bakers yeast, and have them bummed out because they think they need to take a trip to the grocery store before they can make their culture. The only difference I saw using bakers live yeast was a bit earlier emergence and pupae formation, and better media surface conditions when culturing hydei because of the longer wait for larvae to churn up the surface and keep anything like mold from getting a hold on the media.

I will admit that 90% of my development with this formula was done with melanogaster, so I look forward to some hydei feedback next weekend when the first hydei cultures should be fired up.

Allen


----------



## gary1218

In regards to mixing the Superfly media with "hot" water, I have a water cooler that also dispenses nearly boiling water. When I mixed up mine the media absorbed the water very quickly, maybe 10-15 seconds. In fact if it were up to me I probably would have added a little more water. But for this first batch I wanted to follow Allen's directions as close as possible. Now that the cultures have been up & running for close to a week the moisture level looks to be correct so I'm glad I didn't add the additional water.

Now that I see how much 1/4 cup of the Superfly recipe expands like Rob I'll probably eventually switch over to a half size recipe.

Here's a pic of the progress so far in my 3 cultures. The one on the left is my current media, the other 2 are the Superfly.


----------



## sports_doc

Allen Repashy said:


> For those of you who have mixed some up already, I have a question for you.
> 
> I have used a different kind of potato vs. the flakes everyone else uses. It has what I think are good properties, but it mixes up differently. As many of you have commented, by volume, it holds a lot more water than the traditional flakes do.
> The reason I like it is because once hydrated, it is a lot less sticky than flakes and it is easier to get a nice consistent, and non chunky blend. It also tends to not get sloppy over time like some of the flake medias I tested that mix up well, but start to get slushy after a couple weeks.
> The cost of this is that it is not as quick to hydrate, and takes a little more stirring. I think the different comments made about variations in how much water is required to hydrate the mix might be in part due to the different water temps being used. Using boiling water will release more starch and absorb more water..
> 
> So the question is so far... is it easy enough to mix, and does anyone but me see the difference in the finished consistency? I can go to a fine flake that will absorb water more quickly, but I don't think the finished media is as good... but the customer is always right, so please give me some opinions on mixing and texture over the course......
> 
> Thanks again to those of you who have given me feedback in this thread and via PM. I think a lot of people just wanted the good deal because I have heard from less than 10% of the people who ordered the product
> 
> Allen


Allen
From a guy who makes 50+ cx a week:
1. waiting for them to hydrate, isnt so much fun...
2. My first run of it, produced a mass that is just too dry. Adding more water AFTER the ff's are present often leads to drowned FF's ....so it is an art isnt it.
3. BUT sloppy media as they age is the WORST, and not a good outcome either, so I agree with your concerns. 

Consider a blend of flakes with powder IMO.

I have your mix [was only able to make 12cx/bag, is that ballpark for others?] running against my own concoction, and will gladly post the results/synopsis once complete.

Thanks for taking such interest in our little community and working this all out 'live'. Others would be encouraged to follow suit. 

Best,


----------



## earthfrog

sports_doc said:


> Allen
> From a guy who makes 50+ cx a week:
> 1. waiting for them to hydrate, isnt so much fun...
> 2. My first run of it, produced a mass that is just too dry. Adding more water AFTER the ff's are present often leads to drowned FF's ....so it is an art isnt it.
> 3. BUT sloppy media as they age is the WORST, and not a good outcome either, so I agree with your concerns.
> 
> Consider a blend of flakes with powder IMO.
> 
> I have your mix [was only able to make 12cx/bag, is that ballpark for others?] running against my own concoction, and will gladly post the results/synopsis once complete.
> 
> Thanks for taking such interest in our little community and working this all out 'live'. Others would be encouraged to follow suit.
> 
> Best,


I think the media quality is also affected by the water consumption with the yeast inside it, isn't it? Perhaps a quality control issue regarding media consistency could be addressed by designating the actual temperature of the 'hot water' on the packs?

I added 3/4 cup of 'hot water' (I'm estimating 100 degrees), and the media is the consistency of regular mashed potatoes. The recipe says to add 2/3 cup, does it not? Does this mean the water was the ideal temperature?

BTW it seems the larvae are a little more concentrated than my usual homemade mix, but I'll have to update more when they pupate.


----------



## tachikoma

I made my first batch last night and have a few observations. 





































I used boiling tap water for my mix. 
So I mixed exactly as the directions specified and strangely all 3 cups came out differently. I had to add more water to one, and to another I had to add slightly more media. I used the exact same amounts of media and water for the initial mix of all three cultures. My guess is variations of the ingredients in each scoop varied slightly. Shaking the bag up a bit before making a culture should help this. 

I added active yeast to one of the cultures to see if it effects production. 

Pros:
1.) I like the smoothness of the media, very nice and consistent. 
2.) Easy to get accurate measurements by volume since it's a fine powder.

Concerns:
1.) It kind of has a bitter beer smell which is fine if it stays minimal like it is now, but as the culture ages I am concerned it will get worse.

Cons:
None so far.

Thats it for now, I'll add some flys today and keep everyone posted.


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## Allen Repashy

Shawn,

As mentioned and commented on, the amount of time to hydration is definitely effected by water temperature, and can have an effect on how much water you will actually need. The only way to compare apples to apples without having people use a thermometer, would be to have everyone use boiling water... It hydrates the media very quickly, and will give consistent, and comparable results. But alas, because of the inherently laziness of most people, I think requiring boiling water on the label would deter some potential users.

Susan, what one person thinks of as hot water is different than another. For example, I would call 100 degree water warm, not hot. a typical jacuzzi is about 105 degrees. Hot to me means as hot as the tap will get and too hot to keep your hand under.

Another issue effecting the variation in how much water people say they needed is the fact that different people have different ideas of what the consistency of a finished media should be. Even if everyone took water out of the same container of "hot" or boiling water and made their medias side by side, some would say that 2/3 cup was just right and others would say that 3/4 cup or more was what they needed... It is all about peoples experiences and perception of what works, and at the end of the day, unless it is so wet that you drowned your flies, it doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot. As Shawn says, "it is an art"

An important comment I would like to make is the fact that it would have been a LOT easier for me to just make a basic mix using potato flakes, brewers yeast, sugar and the other usual suspects, throw in some superpig, and have put out a media that works just like everyone else's and probably sell a lot of it, who knows, maybe even more than I will sell of this stuff... but that's not my style.

I enjoy thinking outside the box and am not interested at all in copying something else. I wanted to start from scratch, do lots of research and trials, and find what I think is a "better" way to do something. There are already a lot of good medias out there, and I don't want to go head to head with them with a similar product. I researched the nutritional requirements of drosophila to death and every ingredient I chose was for a reason. It isn't just the different potato type I use, but the combination of this and other ingredients that work together to do what they do.

I can't compete on price with basic media using my formula and all it's ingredients. It costs about twice as much for just the raw materials as most other mixes. I also can't compete with people who don't put a value on their time and consider the amount of effort it takes to buy ingredients and mix your own media dry. People will ALWAYS make their own media, and people will ALWAYS just buy the cheapest stuff on the market.... and I don't consider them potential customers, or have any fallacies about converting them.

I look forward to hearing more as time goes on. By next weekend, there should be a lot of mature cultures out there and see what people think then about production and media consistency.

Tachikoma,

I can guarantee there is no variability in the product within the bag. Every sample I sent out was from one SINGLE production batch. I use an elliptical tumbling mixer with counter rotating paddles and it is the best in the business at making a consistent blend.

Variables that can't be controlled can have a lot to do with volume... if the powder is a little compressed or piled up from one spoon to another... if the cup of water is bulging over the top, or not quite topped up. The only scientific way to guarantee consistency is by weight, not volume.

What you are most likely experiencing is that the more you stir it it or faster you stir it, the thicker it gets. This is from the dilatant properties of starch. Shear force increases the viscosity the more you stir. This happens with both potato flakes AND potato granules, but the flakes don't get stirred as much so it would be less noticeable.

At the end of the day, all you need to do is adjust with a little more water and you should be good to go. It shouldn't take long to dial it in.

I still have hopes that those who mix a lot of media can develop their own techniques that will not add much, if any, time to their culture making process. I have been developing this product with a company who ships living cultures to the tune of 500 cultures a week. It took a little time do develop a system, but now they say that their production time is about the same as when they were using the Carolina Mix. The big thing for them was that it has saved them a LOT of money because the cultures are arriving in better condition. When a box gets tossed around and turned on end, the fact that my stuff isn't as runny, makes a huge difference in how it looks when it gets there.

On another note..... I am returning AGAIN to the possible addition of another 5% yeast to the mix because these additional particles will separate the potato granules, and does make it a bit easier to hydrate...... stay tuned 

Your comment on the beer smell is interesting, and again, everyone has different opinions on what smells good.... somewhere in this thread a poster said he liked the smell so much he wanted to eat it himself. LOL

Also, for those of you out there who do make your own media, or just can't adjust to the differences, there is no reason you can't just mix my stuff half and half with your mix, or a quality flake based mix like Josh's. I think it could improve any media on the market as part of the mix. If I can't get all your business, maybe I can get part of it this way 

I am also, not opposed to incorporating flakes into my mix..... but I will need a LOT more feedback after people have used this stuff long term... first, I think we will try the additional brewers yeast... But right now, we just need to see we are at.. I mean if my stuff outperforms other stuff by producing a lot more flies AND maintaining a better consistency, then you only need to make half as many cultures... saving a lot of time...

Hey, I can have high aspirations, can't I? 

stay tuned


----------



## Tony

Allen Repashy said:


> On another note..... I am returning AGAIN to the possible addition of another 5% yeast to the mix because these additional particles will separate the potato granules, and does make it a bit easier to hydrate...... stay tuned


My cultures with the added yeast seemed more difficult to hydrate and required more water.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Hi Tony,

That doesn't make sense to me. The yeast doesn't absorb water at all compared to the potato so it should require less water to hydrate the media to the same consistency, which has been my experience.


----------



## tachikoma

Allen Repashy said:


> Tachikoma,
> 
> I can guarantee there is no variability in the product within the bag. Every sample I sent out was from one SINGLE production batch. I use an elliptical tumbling mixer with counter rotating paddles and it is the best in the business at making a consistent blend.



I was thinking more along the lines that perhaps from settling in the bag from shipping or what not is why it might have been variable. But thinking back on this it's highly unlikely it had sat long enough for this to occur and your comments on the starch make sense as it essentially becomes a non newtonian fluid after you add the water. I will try it with the next batch and see if stirring slowly will help it. 

As you mentioned the fix is easy just add a bit more water if needed pretty simple.


----------



## Boondoggle

Just wanted to touch base. Checked cultures today after a week. No action on hydei (didn't expect any) but with melano Repashy beat my favorite brand to the punch in maggot production. Counted 5 larvae in old standard, hundreds in Repashy. But the clear winner, at this point, is Repashy with yeast sprinkle. Tons of fat active maggots.

Chronicling the whole thing and will post when it's done.

For the record, I use boiling water. I add 1/3 cup water, then 1/4 cup media, stir with a butter knife, then add 1/3 cup water, and then stir again. Shake to settle and the consistency is pretty optimum.

I haven't done a price comparison with my favorite yet, but the fact that the Repashy culture calls for half as much media has to work in your favor. What's the biggest bulk you will sell the media in, Allen? Any chance at a 5 gallon bucket?


----------



## Allen Repashy

Not sure if it's ok to post links to a store on here, so I won't... but I have pricing breaks all the way down to 96 pounds. High volume users would want to set up a wholesale account to get better pricing than the 96 pound retail price since my minimum wholesale order is $250. I know there lesser priced medias out there, and I am not trying to compete with them. But if you take any of those and start adding in things like spirulina and superpig at the inclusion levels I use, and you will quickly find out that it is a really good price for what you get. The margin I make on this product is half what I make on other products because I had to at least try to price myself into the market. I do think that when you consider this, and the consistent high production of the media, that the playing field becomes even.


----------



## Allen Repashy

gary1218 said:


> Now that I see how much 1/4 cup of the Superfly recipe expands like Rob I'll probably eventually switch over to a half size recipe.
> ]


This could be interesting, and a way for me to compete on price with other offerings and I never considered the idea or tested smaller size cultures.

The advantage my media has is that it does do a better job of retaining water, so should be less likely to dry out. The smaller the amount of media you use, the greater possibility you have that the culture will dry out. The fact that this stuff holds water better, might make it suitable for use in lesser quantities.

The easiest way to describe the differences in water retention ability is to use an analogy. There are two basic property differences in gums when it comes to water retention. One could be compared to a sponge, the other to a balloon. The sponge will more quickly absorb water, but has little force to hold it in. The balloon however, once filled, does not release water until it is ruptured. 
The properties of my media are more balloon like than sponge like, so they trap the water better. The force that fills the balloon is created by the charge of the molecules, making them "hungry" so to speak to pull water in a similar, but less charged way than the sponge does.

So if we look at a potato flake as a big sponge, and the ingredients in my mix (not just the potato granules) as a bunch of little balloons... like hundreds per potato flake, then we can get an idea for the property differences. A sponge doesn't really change size as it absorbs water, but a balloon does.... and when you pack a bunch of tiny balloons together through them all expanding towards each other as they absorb water, we create a tightly packed substrate, where the sponges just kinda sit there and soak the water up.... 

As the media gets old, the bacteria have a much easier time breaking down the sponge (releasing water) than they do breaking all the balloons... thus better stability..... At least that is how I look at it....


----------



## sports_doc

Allen,

If it turns out the media produces better [more volume of FF], then say
1. My concoction
2. Other bargain commercial mixes.

Then, I am open to bulk purchasing and saving me time in 
1. Making cx [perhaps I only need 40, or 30 per week instead of 50?]
2. Collecting FF to feed off from 10 well producing cx instead of 25 semi-well.
3. Buying all the mix ingredients myself and storing, mixing etc

Time = money

It may pan out....


----------



## oddlot

I've made my first cultures with the superfly today.I made golden hydei,black hydei and turkish gliders.1 each with superfly and 1 each of my own recipe.Buzzatti will be in next weeks rotation.I personally wouldn't change the amount as they are the perfect amount for the height I would fill mine to.I did however add a little more water for the hydei just like I do with my recipe,because I think it would be too dry by the time they start to produce larvae.I find that it smells good as of now.Over all consistency seems good.I used boiling water to make it with.I will keep you posted with the comparison results.Thanks again for the offer,I am interested to see the final results. Lou


----------



## Allen Repashy

Ok guys,

I just spent the better part of the morning in the lab playing with different temperatures and water ratios. 

As I said before, I developed the instructions based on the fact that people might not be willing to boil water to make their media and didn't spend a lot of time doing what I did this morning when I did a heap of boiling water tests.

There is definitely quite a difference in absorption between hot tap water (mine is 118 degrees for the record) and boiling water. I really like the way the boiling water works because though you have to boil the water, the culture mixes, sets, and is ready for flies in just a few minutes. If you are making ten cultures, by the time you finish with the last one, the first one is ready for flies. 

I also like the way the boiling water more evenly disperses the carotenoids shown by its more orange finished color.

Using hot tap water as described above, I still come up with a good mix using the instructions of 1/4 cup powder to 2/3 cup water... 

Using boiling water, I agree with the feedback that it needs a full extra cup of water.... which makes a really big culture, bigger than I think is needed by quite a bit for a typical culture. 

I played around and came up with a sweet spot of sorts that I would like you guys to try who are using boiling water.

3 tablespoons SuperFly to 2/3 cup BOILING water... It gives you exactly one inch of media in a 32oz cup, and because of SuperFly's unique ingredient combination, this should be more than sufficient to last four weeks without drying out or getting used up.

This means compared to a 1/3 cup flake formula based mixture, we are using 3 tablespoons vs. 5.3 tablespoons, or 56% as much! 


2 tablespoons to 1/2 cup also might work out if anyone like Rob who wants to turn cultures in 3 weeks wants to try that.

Some boiling water tips.... for small batches, easiest way is to just put a measuring cup in the microwave. two minutes per cup of water is usually a good place to start.... starting with hot tap water can cut this time in half.

A good compromise for those who are making a lot of media is to use a coffee maker. If you make your cultures at the same time every week, you can get one with a timer, so the near boiling water is there waiting for you. 

Now let's get some more feedback 

Allen


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## rozdaboff

7 day old cultures. 
Melanogaster (Turkish Gliders); Repashy on right








The modified Carolina mix that I make up (see previous post for recipe) contains much larger larvae than the Repashy cultures at 7 days out. There are plenty of larvae in the Repashy cultures (as you can tell by the zone of agitation in the top 1/4 or so of the medium) though - they are just smaller at this point.

Buzzati; Repashy on right








Buzzati are new for me (just picked some up at FrogDay). However, there is a marked difference between the number of larvae in the Repashy mix and the other commercial mix I am using. The the buzzati larval development is almost as far along as the melanogaster. Lots of larvae churning up the medium. Not nearly as many in the other brand of medium.

Black Hydei; Repashy on right








Larval development in both - but about 10X more in the Repashy mix. Larvae are also a bit larger.

Golden Hydei; Repashy on left








Not too much larval action going on in either culture. I picked up these flies as well at FrogDay. Used to work with them, but stopped. I might be remembering why 


So far, the Repashy mix seems a good fit for some of the larger flies - which the modified Carolina mix I use is absolutely horrendous for.

Another update next week.


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## JJuchems

sports_doc said:


> Allen,
> 
> If it turns out the media produces better [more volume of FF], then say
> 1. My concoction
> 2. Other bargain commercial mixes.
> 
> Then, I am open to bulk purchasing and saving me time in
> 1. Making cx [perhaps I only need 40, or 30 per week instead of 50?]
> 2. Collecting FF to feed off from 10 well producing cx instead of 25 semi-well.
> 3. Buying all the mix ingredients myself and storing, mixing etc
> 
> Time = money
> 
> It may pan out....


These are my thoughts 100%. If it saves me time, and yields better, the extra cost is worth it!

Allen, 
My thoughts so far are is I like the product for consumers. I am a big fan of granules over flakes, they mix better and I like the expansion. Granules have always done best with boiling water in my experience, no matter the mix. I am in the camp of sticking with granules, those who like the “mix” could do the 50/50 mix yours and theirs. As a 5th grade teacher, I understand writing directions for all. A constancy analogy may help. Such as "apple sauce", fruit puree, ect. 

The formula mixes well (I use a Kitchen Aid mixer), and I like that the ingredients are listed on the packaging. It would be nice to see this product in retail stores with your other products. I set three cultures medias: my own, Josh’s Frogs, and yours. Compared to my own and Josh’s, your cultures have yielded more pupae. They also seem have slight color pigmentation. I have observed no difference in size. 

Water Amount: The directions are a bit off to me, I needed more water to get the consistency I like. I tend to tell folks water amount starts as a suggestion. It varies from season to season for me. I created 12 cultures with 1lb.

Once school is out for the summer (if I have time!), I will set the same experiment but introduce 25 sexed pairs of flies to each culture for a real side-by-side comparison. I also might try mixing 50/50 mine/yours for cost to yield reference.


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## Alpha Pro Breeders

We just picked up Repashy Superfly line, and should be in stock early next week. Anxious to compare against our line of fruit fly media, I'm sure it's another great Repashy product.


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## rozdaboff

Allen - Perfectly timed post. I just made my cultures for this week and tried your recommendations.



Allen Repashy said:


> There is definitely quite a difference in absorption between hot tap water (mine is 118 degrees for the record) and boiling water. I really like the way the boiling water works because though you have to boil the water, the culture mixes, sets, and is ready for flies in just a few minutes. If you are making ten cultures, by the time you finish with the last one, the first one is ready for flies.


I agree. After using hot tap last week, I tried boiling and it mixes and sets much faster.



> 3 tablespoons SuperFly to 2/3 cup BOILING water... It gives you exactly one inch of media in a 32oz cup, and because of SuperFly's unique ingredient combination, this should be more than sufficient to last four weeks without drying out or getting used up.
> 
> 
> 2 tablespoons to 1/2 cup also might work out if anyone like Rob who wants to turn cultures in 3 weeks wants to try that.


I also gave this a shot. I used the 3tbs ratio for the hydei/buzzati cultures - and the 2tbs ratio for melanogaster. Even the 2 tbsp mix was still plenty of medium. I may next week try a melanogaster culture with just 1tbsp mix and water - and see if it will remain hydrated enough to support a culture.

I also added baker's yeast to one melanogaster culture to compare against one without.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Glad you found my post in time, I was hoping you would.

On another Front, I started some cultures on the 15th again with a 5% bump in Brewers Yeast side by side with the shipped formula. Yesterday, I actually got first emergence in the regular mix in the AM and in the PM got first emergence in the mix with the extra brewers yeast. Today, there are definitely more larvae in the original mix.... So this time around the regular mix seems a bit better in performance as far as first emergence goes. I will see in a week if it looks like overall production is any better.

But for the time being, I think I am just going to let the current version ride until a month's worth of feedback comes in because it seems more work is needed with adjusting the directions, than the media. 

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. The "complaints" about the difference in mixing had me revisit the hot vs. boiling water and I learned a lot from it and think it might be better to just put boiling water on the directions since it gives more consistent results and allows the use of less media per culture because of expansion... we shall see how they perform long term vs. the hot water made cultures for stability and production.

Cheers, Allen


----------



## Yobosayo

Hello Allen,

Last Sunday I made my first two side by side Melanogaster cultures. For what it's worth my media is basically potato flakes, brewers yeast, some cinnamon, and methyl parabin.

I had to use slightly more than two thirds cup of hot tap water in order to fully mix your media. I made a second set of cultures this past Friday and experienced the same thing with the water. My next set of cultures will be made with boiling water.

Some observations - Your media took more effort to mix than mine. I have a feeling the bpiling water will take care of this. The culture containing your media has no noticeable odor one week in, and I LIKE that! I noticed maggots in my media one day sooner than yours. I'll keep and eye on the two that were made Friday to see if this happens again, maybe I had more females in my media. 

A week in and it looks like I have more developing larvae in my media. I also noticed some cracking in your media - this is probably due to me not mixing thoroughly enough, or perhaps I needed to add even more water. It looked good when finished - very smooth surface and if the cup was tilted the media would start to move ever so slightly.

I'll post again in a few days and update you on both sets of cultures. Below are a couple pics of the cultures at seven days. Your media is left. It will be interesting to see what blooms the most / fastest / longest. And oh, these two cultures have been subjected to the same temperature (76 - 77) and lighting conditions since day 1.

It's a damned shame we can't come back and update these posts.... If ever was a time, now is it.

Thank You for your generous offer, it says a lot of a person willing to work with an entire community.

Brad


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## oddlot

Allen Repashy;
Some boiling water tips.... for small batches said:


> I use a one shot boiler which boils a cup of water for tea in a few seconds,and works well for this application! Lou


----------



## Allen Repashy

oddlot said:


> I use a one shot boiler which boils a cup of water for tea in a few seconds,and works well for this application! Lou


Thanks Lou, you got a link, I couldn't find anything by that name on the web.

Allen

Hey, you guys think something like this would be useful to have as a small sticker about the size of a 50 cent piece?


----------



## oddlot

No problem,I don't have a link,but enter sunbeam hotshot and it will come up.They run from 10 to 20 bucks and work great.It is a hot water dispenser that holds more than an average size coffee mug.
Lou





Allen Repashy said:


> Thanks Lou, you got a link, I couldn't find anything by that name on the web.
> 
> Allen
> 
> Hey, you guys think something like this would be useful to have as a small sticker about the size of a 50 cent piece?


----------



## Allen Repashy

Great Call Lou,

I did a bit of more searching and found a really cool unit that has larger capacity and reboils the water to keep it boiling temp rather than boil and shut off like the single cup one. It will take longer for the initial boil, but it holds 3 liters, which should be enough to make 18 cultures at 2/3 cup per culture.... 
SPT 3

Thee same company also makes a 5 Liter one that has multiple temp holds... which should make 32 cultures.

For those who just want to make a culture or two, here is the link to the Hot Shot that


----------



## earthfrog

Allen Repashy said:


> Thanks Lou, you got a link, I couldn't find anything by that name on the web.
> 
> Allen
> 
> Hey, you guys think something like this would be useful to have as a small sticker about the size of a 50 cent piece?


Yes, I like that. That would be a nice add-on freebie for the larger bags of Superfly, as incentive to buy a bigger bag


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## frogparty

cool sticker, but unnecessary in my opinion, since I just write the date in sharpie on my coffee filter lids. Some people may like them, but I wouldn't pay for them, and Id hate to see your profit margin drop giving them out for free. I guess if they arent costing you more than a few cents each it wouldnt be a bad idea to send them out with the bags of media. 10 stickers per pound of media or something like that.


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## dartfrog2011

works good for me


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## Allen Repashy

I was thinking of it as promotional material for the launch of the product and also as a way to co-brand the product with those who sell complete live cultures at shows or online.





frogparty said:


> cool sticker, but unnecessary in my opinion, since I just write the date in sharpie on my coffee filter lids. Some people may like them, but I wouldn't pay for them, and Id hate to see your profit margin drop giving them out for free. I guess if they arent costing you more than a few cents each it wouldnt be a bad idea to send them out with the bags of media. 10 stickers per pound of media or something like that.


----------



## Allen Repashy

rozdaboff said:


> I may next week try a melanogaster culture with just 1tbsp mix and water - and see if it will remain hydrated enough to support a culture.


Well THAT would be interesting. That isn't much, but if the stuff will stay hydrated, you might be able to at least get one good bloom out of it. When I look at cultures, and production, it seems to me that production is more about surface area of the media than about depth of media. Depth of media really seems to be more about keeping the mix hydrated and production as the culture gets old. 

It is easy to see that most of the activity in a culture can be seen in about the top 1/4" of the media where you can see the "activity zone" for lack of a better word. So hypothetically, a 1/2" deep media should support three weeks of culture...... if it doesn't dry out.


----------



## Tony

Allen Repashy said:


> I was thinking of it as promotional material for the launch of the product and also as a way to co-brand the product with those who sell complete live cultures at shows or online.


I wouldn't bother using them for my own cultures, but I agree that they would be perfect for shows or retail sales.


----------



## Alpha Pro Breeders

I like the middle sticker the best!! Think this would be a great promotional material that I would definitely use.
Ron


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## Alpha Pro Breeders

We happy to announce we just got our order of Superfly in stock, here is the link.

Repashy Vitamins and supplements - Alpha Pro Breeders


----------



## Ed

Allen Repashy said:


> Well THAT would be interesting. That isn't much, but if the stuff will stay hydrated, you might be able to at least get one good bloom out of it. When I look at cultures, and production, it seems to me that production is more about surface area of the media than about depth of media. Depth of media really seems to be more about keeping the mix hydrated and production as the culture gets old.
> 
> It is easy to see that most of the activity in a culture can be seen in about the top 1/4" of the media where you can see the "activity zone" for lack of a better word. So hypothetically, a 1/2" deep media should support three weeks of culture...... if it doesn't dry out.


Correct, the larva are limited as to the depth into the media they can penetrate and still be able to breath. 

Ed


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## gary1218

Started two half recipe cultures tonight, 1/8 cup media + 1/3 cup near boiling water. We'll see how it goes


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## earthfrog

Ed said:


> Correct, the larva are limited as to the depth into the media they can penetrate and still be able to breath.
> 
> Ed


Perhaps the Superfly retains more air pockets than my other media. I am noticing maggots all throughout the media, even at the bottom within a week of hatching, and there are both young and old larvae. I did not notice this with my other media, they only fed in the top 1/4 inch until now. This would serve to increase production, I think.
Explanation?


----------



## Allen Repashy

gary1218 said:


> Started two half recipe cultures tonight, 1/8 cup media + 1/3 cup near boiling water. We'll see how it goes


How did that mix up?

When I was playing in the Lab yesterday, It seemed to me that with boiling water, 2 tbls (1/8cup) was just right for 1/2 cup.

Allen


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## gary1218

Allen Repashy said:


> How did that mix up?
> 
> When I was playing in the Lab yesterday, It seemed to me that with boiling water, 2 tbls (1/8cup) was just right for 1/2 cup.
> 
> Allen


It mixed up the same for me as your "regular" recipe of 1/4 cup media & 2/3 cup water. 1/2 cup of water for me would have been too soupy.

You know, it's kind of funny how were all doing similar things but getting different results


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## Allen Repashy

Ok,

Tonight I decided to make a 1/2 size culture (actually about 1/3 size vs. potato flakes)

For me, with boiling water, I used 1 1/2 tablespoon SuperFly and 1/3 cup water and it came out just right. It seems like enough for a melanogaster culture if it doesn't dry out. I am interested to see what happens. 

Anyone have any new observations? we should be at 12 days on the first made cultures.

Allen


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## Boondoggle

Allen Repashy said:


> Anyone have any new observations?


I'm at day 10. Melano are producing flies now, Hydei are starting to "maggot-up" noticeably. I'm writing it all down, but the long and short of it so far is that with both types Repashy beat my Brand "J" to the punch as far as initial production of larvae and flies, but the real winner was Repashy with yeast sprinkle.

Maggots on Brand "J" tend to only go up about halfway up the container, whereas Repashy w/ yeast is evenly coated with larvae. Coffee filters break down sooner in Repashy. Smell is negligible at this point. If media color is an indication then maggot penetration is definitely deeper in Repashy (about 1/2" compared to 1/4" in Brand "J"). Also, the larvae are much more orange in Repashy. Whether that's an indication of food on the inside or outside of the maggot isn't clear. 

So far, I like how the media mixes and settles flat. Less surface area means less drying. I like how the media is wetter than I'm used to, but doesn't become dislodged when turned upside down. I also like the smaller batches. I'm not crazy about the packaging.

I'm really curious as to whether there is such a thing as a "more nutritious fly" or if a fly fed on a better diet just grows and reproduces faster. Any thoughts?


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## fleshfrombone

I'm on day 5 or so with the first culture and I'm seeing decent maggot production.


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## PeanutbuttER

Side by side with what I'm using now the Repashy media has exploded with maggots. I'm talking about 20x maggots in the Superfly. I've never seen this many maggots. They're stored in a dark/cool area and I'm just very surprised to see this. I made the mix according to the package and didn't add any yeast. 

The media looks good and not dry, but I haven't had any problems with drying with my other media so this alone doesn't mean too too much. I recently moved my cultures to a semi-dark/low ventilation cupboard and they started to get moldy after about 2 weeks so I've been adding vinegar to them. Your media so far hasn't had any signs of mold without me having to have added vinegar, which is definitely a plus to me.

I'm wondering about the "more nutritious fly" claim as well. Time will tell.


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## chas79

I am on day 14 and about fell on the floor. Superfly seriously looks like its producing 3 or 4 times as many flies as my other media.


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## earthfrog

chas79 said:


> I am on day 14 and about fell on the floor. Superfly seriously looks like its producing 3 or 4 times as many flies as my other media.


It almost seems to me that they reaching the pupa stage much more quickly than they did with my regular mix. I think this is due to their getting better nutrition, thus being able to pupate earlier. Maybe this is why the pics in this thread show the maggots concentrated at the bottom half of the container instead of all over the sides---mine are doing that as well. For some reason they do not seem to space themselves out as much with the Superfly vs. the ol' standard potato/applesauce/banana mixture. Any other guesses as to why, other than fast maturity?


----------



## gary1218

I'm at day 12 on my 3 cultures, 2 of Allen's and 1 of my current media. All 3 cultures had their first hatch out today. Allen's 2 cultures have noticeable more FFs.

No problems with the consistency of the media in any of the cultures.


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## Reef_Haven

Hopefully someone else can duplicate this.

Average weight of Superfly melanos was 0.860 milligrams
Average of homemade mix melanos was 0.724 milligrams
I know Ed has posted avg weight of flies at 0.753 milligrams

Homemade mix is just potato flakes, brewers yeast, and powder sugar.

These flies are 5 days old. I don't know if flies are able to put on weight after hatching? I suspect they can.


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## frogparty

Ill take some pics tonight. My superfly edia has more maggots than any other media Ive evr tried, and Im loving the consistency of the media. The "active" zone where the maggots are does not get all super goopy like my carolina mix. I have FAR more maggots than in my carolina mix, and the pupae look larger. I guess I could measure them in mm. Overall, Im very pleased with the results.
Repashy + extra yeast has better production, but its not a huge difference
The media I will do a side by side with next is repashy superfly vs. NW power mix(flax based) I know several people who swear by it, and its a great media, I just hate how long it takes to make


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## Allen Repashy

frogparty said:


> Ill take some pics tonight. My superfly edia has more maggots than any other media Ive evr tried, and Im loving the consistency of the media.



Cool, I look forward to seeing the pics!


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## Allen Repashy

Reef_Haven said:


> Hopefully someone else can duplicate this.
> 
> Average weight of Superfly melanos was 0.860 milligrams
> Average of homemade mix melanos was 0.724 milligrams
> I know Ed has posted avg weight of flies at 0.753 milligrams


Wow, thanks for taking the time to do this. How many flies did you weigh to come up with this..... did you weigh a hundred flies and then divide by a hundred, or is your scale that accurate you can measure one..... 

I have no idea why they would be so much bigger other than the fact that I tried to optimize the nutrition for the flies by adding all the different ingredients I did. This might explain why they don't come out of the media as quickly as the other cultures.. maybe they like it so much they stick around an extra day to eat more and get fatter ..... LOL. 

Interesting anyways.... maybe Ed will do something like this since he has done it before. If more than one person can verify a difference of more than 10% in size, that would be a pretty freaking significant finding... If you have the time to do this again with other cultures and come up with repeatable results, it would be something worth publishing 

If you have time to explain your process of selection and weighing, it might ad weight (pun intended) to your findings.

Allen


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## PeanutbuttER

I just noticed something that I haven't heard anyone comment on. In my superfly media there are more maggots, yes but the maggots are also more active. They're moving faster and more of them at any given time are moving. No idea if this'll bear true for anyone else's test cultures but I thought it was an interesting observation nonetheless.


----------



## tachikoma

I also notice that I can actually see the media color inside of the maggots. They aren't just the white colored maggots seen in my usual cultures. They have a golden brown color to them.


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## oddlot

After the early morning check on day 4 the turkish gliders have quite a few larvae running around in the superfly.My mix has larvae also,but not as many.Today ,Day # 5 The t-gliders have many pupae ready to pop.
What really impressed me is that on day 5 both of my hydei cultures with superfly mix have a good amount of maggots running around and very actively.My mix is producing, but not as well yet.I will continue to monitor productivity.
Lou


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## Reef_Haven

Allen Repashy said:


> Wow, thanks for taking the time to do this. How many flies did you weigh to come up with this..... did you weigh a hundred flies and then divide by a hundred, or is your scale that accurate you can measure one.....
> 
> I have no idea why they would be so much bigger other than the fact that I tried to optimize the nutrition for the flies by adding all the different ingredients I did. This might explain why they don't come out of the media as quickly as the other cultures.. maybe they like it so much they stick around an extra day to eat more and get fatter ..... LOL.
> 
> Interesting anyways.... maybe Ed will do something like this since he has done it before. If more than one person can verify a difference of more than 10% in size, that would be a pretty freaking significant finding... If you have the time to do this again with other cultures and come up with repeatable results, it would be something worth publishing
> 
> If you have time to explain your process of selection and weighing, it might ad weight (pun intended) to your findings.
> 
> Allen


Allen,
I've done this a few times trying to determine how much dust will actually stick to flies, to see if it is possible to dose our frogs accurately with dusted flies.
I have an analytical scale at work, accurate to 0.0001 gram. I put a couple hundred flies in a film canister, weigh it, place it the freezer for about 5 minutes, count out about hundred flies or so, reweigh it and divide the weight loss by the number of flies to get an average.
I ran these numbers twice and both times were nearly identical.
When I weighed my flies about a month ago, they weighed a bit more, and averaged 0.810mg. Those were newly emerged flies from a fresh culture with a bit more brewer's yeast and were kept a little cooler.
It would be interesting to see if someone else can try this as well.


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## Brotherly Monkey

it would be interesting to see a nutritional analysis of the flies from the repashy mix, compared to a more standard formula. And though I'm probably switching to your mix permanently, I wonder if the various added goodies are simply acting as a placebo and possibly going to waste

pros:

-seems to mix to a larger volume

-less issues with mold

-smell isn't as bad

-seems to mix up more cleanly

cons

-price. But considering that it seems that I'll be using less media (i plan on mixing my newest cultures with 2 TBS of media), that isn't as much of a concern as when I first purchased the product. And it might be something worth advertising


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## sports_doc

^ ^ U are now my favorite DB nerd ...

My observations so far, with 3 batches of each

1. the maggots are more numerous by visual inspection then in my concoction mix at this stage. Which means they are either ahead of schedule or actually bred more in the SF. Time will tell as they mature more.

2. the SF mix turns the maggots an orange color, but I have done this with homemade mixes with all sorts of ingredients from spinach, to carrots, to paprika...etc.

3. the hydei in the SF, are 'behind' my concoction mix, and as of 7 days there isnt much activity at all with them yet in SF

Shawn


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## Ed

PeanutbuttER said:


> I just noticed something that I haven't heard anyone comment on. In my superfly media there are more maggots, yes but the maggots are also more active. They're moving faster and more of them at any given time are moving. No idea if this'll bear true for anyone else's test cultures but I thought it was an interesting observation nonetheless.


Activity has a strong genetic as well as enviromental component so I'm not sure it is a valid metric. 

Ed


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## Ed

Allen Repashy said:


> Interesting anyways.... maybe Ed will do something like this since he has done it before. If more than one person can verify a difference of more than 10% in size, that would be a pretty freaking significant finding... If you have the time to do this again with other cultures and come up with repeatable results, it would be something worth publishing


I did my weights in triplicate with vestigal melanogaster using a decent number of flies (I can look up the exact number). Unfortunately I no longer have access to a scale that is sensitive enough for me to be comfortable to weigh something that small.


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## earthfrog

Brotherly Monkey said:


> it would be interesting to see a nutritional analysis of the flies from the repashy mix, compared to a more standard formula. And though I'm probably switching to your mix permanently, I wonder if the various added goodies are simply acting as a placebo and possibly going to waste
> 
> pros:
> 
> -seems to mix to a larger volume
> 
> -less issues with mold
> 
> -smell isn't as bad
> 
> -seems to mix up more cleanly
> 
> cons
> 
> -price. But considering that it seems that I'll be using less media (i plan on mixing my newest cultures with 2 TBS of media), that isn't as much of a concern as when I first purchased the product. And it might be something worth advertising


Another consideration regarding the nutrition factor is the health of the flies themselves. If they eat better ingredients, perhaps they'll be more hardy and more resistant to culture crashes. A more balanced media might also support a more diverse microbial colony which might extend the life of the culture as well.


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## Boondoggle

PeanutbuttER said:


> I just noticed something that I haven't heard anyone comment on. In my superfly media there are more maggots, yes but the maggots are also more active. They're moving faster and more of them at any given time are moving. No idea if this'll bear true for anyone else's test cultures but I thought it was an interesting observation nonetheless.


Actually, I've noticed this as well. I didn't mention it because I couldn't figure out a way to quantify it, and I thought I might sound a bit nuts. Just to check myself, I took two Repashy cultures, and two of my standard ones, and just based on maggot activity alone could tell which was which every time. The Repashy maggots move faster and farther. Weird, though, I'm not really sure what it means.


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## earthfrog

Boondoggle said:


> Actually, I've noticed this as well. I didn't mention it because I couldn't figure out a way to quantify it, and I thought I might sound a bit nuts. Just to check myself, I took two Repashy cultures, and two of my standard ones, and just based on maggot activity alone could tell which was which every time. The Repashy maggots move faster and farther. Weird, though, I'm not really sure what it means.


Maybe they have better nutrition so they have more energy, or maybe there's a component in the Superfly that acts as a stimulant and compels them to move faster.


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## gabbygenier

Got mine at the beginning of the week. Made 2 cultures tuesday. See how it goes. 

Thanks again Alan


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## FuEl

Healthier maggots definitely lead to healthier flies. Nutrition definitely plays a very big role. One of the easiest means to look at the health of a culture is via the activity of the larvae. Even in aquaculture these same things apply. In marine fish and crustacean larvae that receive better nutrition, faster metamorphosis is always achieved. So for fruitflies, faster metamorphosis achieved by SF is definitely an indicator of good quality media.

Junkai


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## Ed

Activity of the larva has a high genetic component as well as enviromental and density variables.. High activity can be the result of competition between larva (see http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/evo_88.pdf ), which genes are being expressed (see http://academic.reed.edu/biology/co...bus/2010_labs/week5_stuff/sokolowski_1980.pdf ) 

the density (see http://www.pnas.org/content/85/12/4383.full.pdf ), 

High activity can also indicate a larva that has been genetically selected for inefficient food processing (see http://www.memory.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/EvoEcology96.pdf ) which directly affects the nutritional status of the larva and adult flies (this is also the case with short developmental times). High competition levels for resouces can also reduce adult size (see http://www.memory.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/amnat88.pdf) 

These are only part of the reasons why activity is a poor indicator of not only nutritional status of the media but health and/or nutritional status of the flies.


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## earthfrog

Ed said:


> Activity of the larva has a high genetic component as well as enviromental and density variables.. High activity can be the result of competition between larva (see http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/evo_88.pdf ), which genes are being expressed (see http://academic.reed.edu/biology/co...bus/2010_labs/week5_stuff/sokolowski_1980.pdf )
> 
> the density (see http://www.pnas.org/content/85/12/4383.full.pdf ),
> 
> High activity can also indicate a larva that has been genetically selected for inefficient food processing (see http://www.memory.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/EvoEcology96.pdf ) which directly affects the nutritional status of the larva and adult flies (this is also the case with short developmental times). High competition levels for resouces can also reduce adult size (see http://www.memory.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/amnat88.pdf)
> 
> These are only part of the reasons why activity is a poor indicator of not only nutritional status of the media but health and/or nutritional status of the flies.


 I noticed this 'rapid slithering' in my Superfly culture after observing the maggots from the same set of flies in my other culture, and the maggots moved noticeably more slowly in that culture. In the Superfly culture, with the same set of flies (producing the same types of larvae), they all move faster. 
I think it's more likely to be from high density based on the way these cultures are producing or from certain additives in the food...
Alternatively, this could mean the larvae in the Superfly mix are trying to compensate for having less yeast in the mix, which, conversely, would be why they move more slowly in the homemade mixes which incorporate more yeast. (But, then, this behavior wouldn't be due to a lack of nutrition b/c the FFs in the Superfly weigh more upon morphing out...)
Is that what is meant by 'genetic selection for inefficient food processing'? Please clarify.


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## Ed

No, genetic selection for inefficient food processing means that the maggots do not efficiently convert consumed food into maggot. This means more food is wasted. 

Behaviorally the maggots tend to congregate in areas of higher food density (higher protein content) and exclude smaller maggots from those locations. If the food is more evenly distributed, this will cause maggots who have the dominent gene(s) coding for scramble style feeding to show greater mobility as they seek the areas of higher food density. 

There are a lot of reason why mobility of larva are not a metric that can be applied as an example of media quality. And this is before we even begin to look at enviromental factors.


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## Allen Repashy

Interesting you guys are talking about this. I noticed it myself, but couldn't figure out an explanation for it. 
Ed pointed out one thing that could make a bit of sense... the distribution of nutrients in the SuperFly is VERY uniform. The particle sizes of the ingredients are very similar in size, and I use the best mixer money can buy.... so I doubt there are any "hot spots" of protein so to speak in the media. I do know from experience that when mixing flakes and brewers yeast..... two very different particle sizes and weight densities, that is is extremely difficult to get an even blend. This is what brought me to the fine granules in the first place.

On another note, I got a sample of fine flakes from my Potato mill today and played around with it. I really have come to hate the flakes. they mix up lumpy even when using fine flakes, and the finished mix is really sticky and won't tap flat unless you put so much water in it you could go swimming in it. 

The more I play around with this stuff again, the more I realize I shouldn't have second guessed myself when I started getting feedback about how it mixes. I think the benefits of not using the flakes ought weighs any quick mixing advantage it might have. 

Thanks again everyone for all the great feedback so far.

Allen


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## gary1218

Question for Allen.

I know a lot of us out there use the left over dusting powder from dusting the FFs as an added ingredient in our media when we're making up new cultures. I guess I'm thinking that's not necssary with your media. Is it a problem though if we still go ahead and add it? Is there a point where you're adding too many vitamins to a media?

Thanks.


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## sports_doc

^ Gary, you are actually the first person Ive heard/ 'read' who says they do this.

Personally I dont. I suspect the high concentrations of Ca+2 and other minerals would _negatively _impact FF production.

So I do not added 'left over' dusting powder.


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## Allen Repashy

Hi Gary,

I really couldn't give you any advice here. I have put in about the max recommended levels for vitamins, minerals, and trace-minerals recommended for fly nutrition so I would say that adding more probably wouldn't do anything to improve the mix, while it could possibly effect the culture in a negative way. You will have to do your own side by side comparisons to get the answer.

On another note, it should be culture time for a lot of you out there today and we should have quite a few cultures past the two week point..... so let's hear about some progress 

Allen


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## Ed

Calcium will affect other insects if you add it to thier food but fruit flies have an exceedingly efficient calcium excretion mechanism which actually make it impossible to modify thier calcium to phosphorus ratio. However addition of other vitamins can significantly cause problems over time as fruit flies will selectively uptake and store vitamin E with the potential to store hundreds of times more vitamin E than is found in the food source. This storage can upset the ratios of A to D3 to E as these all compete for uptake by the frogs and ratios outside of 10 to 1 to 0.1 results in deficiencies in A and D3. As can be seen by the ratio that if the flies are uptaking E, it can readily affect the competition for uptake. 

As a further talking point, the addition of additional vitamins can change the demand for other nutrients. This is a problem as you can't control which vitamins are going to be stable in the media as it is not only being exposed to microbial actions but active secretion of digestive enzymes by the larva.


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## Bcs TX

I made these cultures on 5/22 and here is the progress so far (I did not add yeast to the Repashy).
The Repashy really did well on the flightless mels but seem to be behind on my wingless mels. I will take more pictures when they start to bloom.
Picture #1 is Repashy flightless mels, Picture #2 is my home made media flightless mels #3 is Repashy wingless mels #4 is my home made media wingless mels.

-Beth


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## gary1218

Thanks Ed.

I guess I'll be just throwing out my dusting powders from now on.


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## Chris155hp

Staring two Cultures today comparing to joshes frogs media with hydi and TG's


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## Colleen53

I'll be very interested in hearing the results of the cultures you will be making from Josh's and the Repashy media. I didn't get in on the buy 1 get 2 free deal, but am reading these results from you all.


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## Boondoggle

When I saw how long this was getting, I figured I better break it up into 2 posts. Here is the first, for what it's worth.

Test and Comparison of Repashy Superfly and Brand "J"

5/14/11

Activity - Made 6 cultures: 2 Brand "J" plus yeast sprinkle (1 Hydei, 1 Melano), 2 Repashy Superfly (1 Hydei, 1 Melano), and 2 Repashy Superfly plus yeast sprinkle (1 Hydei, 1 Melano). I mixed Brand "J" a bit wetter than the instructions call for as per my usual. I mixed Superfly according to directions. Boiling water was used with all cultures. I added all flies from the same mature booming hydei or melano culture. I added approx the same amount of flies (estimated 100) and stored them all in the same location (inside plastic opaque box with diffused light, temps 71-75 degrees F). They all got 3 coffee filters as well. 

Observations - Brand "J" smells better, like food. I don't love the smell of Superfly, it's a bit "vitaminy", but that might be a good thing. Neither brands odor is very strong, though, so I wouldn't call either offensive. It's interesting that Superfly calls for half as much product. I like that. Superfly is very finely ground compared to Brand "J" and mixes much easier in my opinion. It seemed like it was going to be too wet at first, but gelled up while cooling. After mixing it lays very flat, unlike Brand "J", which stays lumpy. I anticipate this as a good thing as it will likely dry much slower having less surface area. 



5/21/11

Activity - Pulled out all cultures for visual inspection. I also made additional Repashy cultures which I will be watching for overall trends, but not monitoring as closely.

Observations -	Hydei 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - no action
Hydei 2 (Repashy) - no action
Hydei 3 (Repashy with yeast) - no action
Melano 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Maybe 5 visible larvae, one large, the rest small
Melano 2 (Repashy) - many small larvae, no large
Melano 3 (Repashy with yeast) - many, many larvae, both large and small

It appears in this very limited observation that Repashy beat my current culture "to the punch" when it came to maggot production in Melano. I was also a bit surprised to see the difference between cultures with and without yeast. 



5/24/11

Activity - Pulled out all cultures for visual inspection.

Observations - Hydei 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - no visible larvae
Hydei 2 (Repashy) - Both large and small larva active in lower half of the cup. Approx 15-20/sq in.
Hydei 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Both large and small larva active in lower half of the cup. Approx 30-40/sq in.
Melano 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - A decent amount of larvae of all sizes as well as casings. No flies that I can tell.
Melano 2 (Repashy) - Comparable with Melano 1. Just beginning to produce flies.
Melano 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Slightly higher larvae and casing count than Melano 1 or 2, but flies have started developing here as well and fly population is noticably larger (est. 20%).

It appears that Repashy beat my current culture in initial larval production with Hydei as well. The coffee filters in the Repashy have begun to break down and wilt into the medium in the Melano's. At first my assumption was that this was because the Repashy is a "wetter" mix, but the Hydei coffee filters are unaffected so it may be a reflection of traffic/production. I still think Brand "J" smells better, but you really have get your nose in either to actually smell it so I think that's not going to be an issue.




5/28/11

Activity - Pulled out cultures for visual inspection. I also made additional cultures including ones that were half Repashy/half Brand "J". I also made a Repashy culture for Buzzatti (which I have been having a hell of a time getting a culture going on).

Observations - Hydei 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Some larvae, large and small. A few casings as well. No apparent emerging flies yet.
Hydei 2 (Repashy) - A bit more larvae. Quite a bit more casings. No apparent emerging flies yet.
Hydei 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Lots and Lots of maggots, mostly small. About the same amount of casings as Heydei 2. No flies to speak of.
Melano 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Close to what I would consider a "Booming" culture. Plenty of flies and maggots abound. Plenty of media left as well.
Melano 2 (Repashy) - About the same amount of flies as Melano 1 (too close to call). Noticably more maggots, though. Many small ones. Media is noticeably lower.
Melano 3 (Repashy with yeast) - More flies than Melano 2, more casings, a similar amount of maggots. Media is noticeably lower

I've reached the half-way point of the comparison and will probably start feeding off the Melano cultures this week, or next at the latest. All cultures have begun to smell the same, like yeast...very faint odor though. Not a problem. One thing I've noticed since the beginning is that the Repashy maggots are much more active. I didn't mention it before because I really wanted to be sure, but I can pick up any of these cultures now and just by focusing on maggot movement alone, tell which is which. Also, between the Repashy cultures having deeper larval penetration and being noticeably consumed, the maggot activity zone in the Repashy is getting pretty close to the bottom, especially with the Hydei. Because of that I realized something that is a bit frustrating. I have been judging maggot population/activity by what I see, but I can't really judge whats under the surface. Hopefully, whats happening above the surface is a reflection of whats under, but I can't really know for sure.


I recognize that since most of this info is based on my observations and estimations, and not hard numbers, that it's barely empirical. All I can say is that I've done my best to make accurate statements and approach it with an unbiased eye. I plan to post the rest in two weeks time.


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## sports_doc

These are melanogaster.

first pic is your mix

second is mine.

The hydei arent far enough along to compare yet.



















Not a ton of difference, but your mix did get a quick start, a day or 2 even ahead of the other.

Im interested in:
1. # of FF per cx
2. Size/vigor of FF. A guesstimate is fine, Ive seen enough FF to know large robust ones from stunted.
3. length of time the cx produces.
4. if left standing 4, 5, 6 weeks, ? difference in susceptibility to mite infestation.


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## Allen Repashy

*Instruction Help Request*

Ok guys

I need to send the label for the jar off to the printer this week and wanted to get some feedback from those who have mixed it up as to what, if any changes should be made. I know many of you will laugh at the idea of selling SuperFly in a 150 gram jar but it is a good introductory size and will be geared towards the walk in retail store customer. It will make four cultures. Believe it or not, I made a jar for the SuperHatch and it is a good seller. Perfect for that customer in a panic who goes to the local petstore because their leopard or crested gecko laid a single clutch of eggs.

Here are the current instructions on the Bag:

DIRECTIONS: For a typical 32 oz. size deli container, add 1/4 cup Superfly to 2/3 cup HOT water (distilled or bottled if possible) and stir until blended. Finished mixture should be thin enough to flatten out when container is tapped on table. Let sit for a few hours to completely absorb water. Add water or media to adjust if necessary. Add Flies and keep at approx 75F. Culture should begin to produce larvae in 5-7 days and flies in10-15 days depending on temperature. Makes 10 large cultures per pound.

How about this fpr the jar (and next run of bags):

To make a typical culture (32oz size deli container) add between 3 tablespoons (typical when using boiling water) and 4 tablespoons (typical when using hot tap water) SuperFly media to prepared water and stir until blended. Finished mixture should be thin enough to flatten out when container is tapped on table. Add water or media to adjust if necessary. Let cool before adding flies. Add Flies and keep at approx 75F. Culture should begin to produce larvae in 5-15 days and flies in 10-30 days depending on temperature and species. Makes 10 large cultures per pound.

What do you guys think, I need some help here. I have a very small amount of space on the label, so it must be just the basics. 

Cheers, Allen


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## Ed

Hi Allen,

I set up one culture following the direction and after 4 days still no mold on it. I'm adding flies to it now (in part as I am getting questions as to why I have a culture with no flies sitting on the kitchen table (so it wasn't in the room with the other cultures to reduce mites affecting the test. If I mix up a culture of my regular mix, and don't add flies I will see mold on day 4. 

I've been having good success using 1/4 cup of Superfly for my cultures. 

Ed


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## Allen Repashy

Thanks Ed,

That is a good test to make and I think you are the first to do it and report.
I based my inclusion levels on one week (7 Days) with no flies and no mold as a minimum requirement, though often I get ten days. As you know, a lot of this depends on the sterility of your starting containers, Fly climbing substrate and dry media, as well as the presence of mites and their ability to track things into the culture. My tests were using hot tap water and 1/4 cup (4 tablespoons) to 2/3 cup water. Using 3 tablespoons to 2/3 cup will change the ratio of preservative in the culture, but using boiling water might balance out the difference via it's sterilization ability. 

The only time I got mold once I dialed in my formula was when I started a hydei culture from a two month old culture and dumped a bunch of dead flies and some crusty media into the container. It started growing mold in 3-4 days, and because the hydei take longer to churn things up, at 12 days, there was a coat of the white/bluish mold on the surface of the media. It seemed to made the culture start a little slower, but once the maggots became active, they totally engulfed the mold and the culture cleaned up and acted normal. 

I have never seen black "mold of death" in any of my cultures and I believe this is due to the combination of the four different inhibitors I am using. 

Sport_Doc:

I let all my cultures go to 8 weeks in testing and luckily, I didn't have any problems with mites. I don't think, however that there would be any significant differences in anyone's formulas as far as resisting the development of mites. If there is, I would like to hear about it, but I wouldn't expect it.

Allen


----------



## Tony

My melanogaster cultures are now starting their first boom. My own mix usually takes a few more days, and Superfly is far more productive, there are easily 2-3x the number of pupa in my Superfly cultures. There does not seem to be any significant difference between the unmodified cultures and those with extra brewer's yeast at this point.


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## rozdaboff

An update.

The first round of cultures were made on 5/15 (so 15 days ago):

Melanogaster - Very good yields. Comparable with my modified Carolina mix. But as I mentioned earlier - there is a lot of media left in the container [see later portions of post for discussion]

Hydei - Black - Cultures are starting produce small numbers of flies - lots of larvae and pupae on sides of container. More hatched flies than my other medium.

Hydei - Golden - Tons of larvae and pupae - but no flies yet. This is no different than my other commercial 'control' medium.

Buzzati - Very good yields of flies. I don't have much experience with buzzati - but I have heard they can be a pain to culture. Using the Repashy mix - I don't find that to be a problem. However - something that was a pain was the medium fell out of the culture container as a mucky mess while I was tipping flies. I saw the medium start to pull away from some of the other cultures when I was getting flies - but this was the only culture it completely "souped" out of despite the fact that I was pinching the sides of the container.

The second round of cultures are now 8 days old (made 5/22): 

Note - for these cultures I cut back the mix to 2 tbs (1/2 cup water) for melanogaster and 3 tbs (2/3 cup water) for hydei/buzzati. 
-There is no evidence of drying out in any culture.
-The larval production is similar to what I posted in the first review of my first round of cultures at 7 days out (see post from 5/22).


Today I made a third round of cultures. As I noted last week - even though I cut back the recipe - there is still a lot of medium in the cup (more than could be used up by a producing culture in 3-4 weeks). So I made the following changes:

Melanogaster culture - 1 tbs medium, 1/4 cup boiling water
Hydei/Buzzati - 2 tbs medium, 1/2 cup boiling water

The melanogaster mix came out perfectly - very comparable to my current volume of media that I get from using 1/4c dry Modified Carolina and 1/4c water. The Hydei/buzzati sized cultures came out OK as well - although next time I am going to try less water as it seems too wet. I will update how the cultures fare in terms of drying out in a week.


Overall so far - I am happy with the medium in terms of production. It is a little more involved to make due to the boiling of water and mixing of water and medium (as opposed to swirling) - but in terms of what I am getting out in regards to early hatches of hydei and great buzzati production it seems to be worth it.

I am definitely going to have to play with water:medium, though. The medium is just too soupy/soft. I am sure that the environmental conditions in Central NY contribute greatly to this though. It is a constant battle for me to prevent cultures from getting to dry in the winter [humidity in the 20-30% range], and having them be to wet in the summer [can get as high as 75-80% even with the dehumidifier running] because of humidity differences. But - I think that the weight of the medium in the larger cultures also contributes to the issue with the whole base of media falling out while I am dumping out flies. So hopefully, making smaller cultures will help with this.


----------



## Yobosayo

Yobosayo said:


> Hello Allen,
> 
> Last Sunday I made my first two side by side Melanogaster cultures. For what it's worth my media is basically potato flakes, brewers yeast, some cinnamon, and methyl parabin.
> 
> I had to use slightly more than two thirds cup of hot tap water in order to fully mix your media. I made a second set of cultures this past Friday and experienced the same thing with the water. My next set of cultures will be made with boiling water.
> 
> Some observations - Your media took more effort to mix than mine. I have a feeling the bpiling water will take care of this. The culture containing your media has no noticeable odor one week in, and I LIKE that! I noticed maggots in my media one day sooner than yours. I'll keep and eye on the two that were made Friday to see if this happens again, maybe I had more females in my media.
> 
> A week in and it looks like I have more developing larvae in my media. I also noticed some cracking in your media - this is probably due to me not mixing thoroughly enough, or perhaps I needed to add even more water. It looked good when finished - very smooth surface and if the cup was tilted the media would start to move ever so slightly.
> 
> I'll post again in a few days and update you on both sets of cultures. Below are a couple pics of the cultures at seven days. Your media is left. It will be interesting to see what blooms the most / fastest / longest. And oh, these two cultures have been subjected to the same temperature (76 - 77) and lighting conditions since day 1.
> 
> It's a damned shame we can't come back and update these posts.... If ever was a time, now is it.
> 
> Thank You for your generous offer, it says a lot of a person willing to work with an entire community.
> 
> Brad



UPDATE: 

My first side by sides are 16 days in. So far there seems to be better production with my media. I noticed maggots in my media first but it now seems like your media is starting to produce more pupae. As others have pointed out the maggots in my first batch of Repashy didn't seem to climb to high at first - probably too fat.

No smell or signs of mold. It does seem like your media is starting to dry quicker than mine - that certainly could have been me using too little water. 

I made up another side by side set of cultures last Friday, and used a bit more water with your media than I did last time. Your media has produced faster in this set. Maggot emergence was almost a full 2 days ahead of my media. There are also quite a bit more pupae in your mix. It may just be me but the maggots and pupae seem to be slightly larger with the Superfly.

Repashy media on the left in the following pics.

16 days:










Second set 11 days:


----------



## sports_doc

Allen, 

So far I'm pleased to report that the Superfly is producing at a high rate.

No mites or mold in either cx's [old mix nor SF]

The hydei are now in full swing and the SF is 25% > maggots so far.

Now get us some 'bulk' buying power, for the few of us who need 5gal sizes 

[btw, I think they produce just fine on 1/2 the amount called for.....so should be able to get 15-20 cx per pound I think]


----------



## JeremyHuff

Allen
On two occasions I made the full amount and only got 9 cultures, not 10. There was no extra and I measured it to the direction's specifications. I haven't done the third pack yet.


----------



## frogparty

Been slacking on pictures, but the superfly is outproducing standard carolina mix 2:1 at least. I am VERY pleased with these results, very pleased indeed. 
Still no mold on the superfly, some mold on the carolina mix. "Active" layer on the carolina mix has gone really soupy, and shifts around a LOT during harvest, while the superfly is maintaining excellent structure.
No noticable difference between superfly + active yeast vs plain superfly at this time.
I will for sure continue to order this product, Im extremely pleased


----------



## Allen Repashy

JeremyHuff said:


> Allen
> On two occasions I made the full amount and only got 9 cultures, not 10. There was no extra and I measured it to the direction's specifications. I haven't done the third pack yet.


Thanks for the feedback Jeremy. Interesting that several people commented they were getting 12 cultures per pound using the same directions..lol

Are you heaping or packing the measuring cup? It should be loosely filled and scraped flat. I get 45 grams in 1/4 cup..... so 450 grams for ten cultures. 

Allen


----------



## Brotherly Monkey

frogparty said:


> Been slacking on pictures, but the superfly is outproducing standard carolina mix 2:1 at least. I am VERY pleased with these results, very pleased indeed.
> Still no mold on the superfly, some mold on the carolina mix. "Active" layer on the carolina mix has gone really soupy, and shifts around a LOT during harvest, while the superfly is maintaining excellent structure.
> No noticable difference between superfly + active yeast vs plain superfly at this time.
> I will for sure continue to order this product, Im extremely pleased


With the addition of active yeast, it seems production time in my cultures was cut in half


----------



## frogparty

Brotherly Monkey said:


> With the addition of active yeast, it seems production time in my cultures was cut in half


yes, but Ive harvested 2x now from the cultures, and couldn't tell you which was which now. I noticed about a day or so boost with the sprinkle of active yeast on top of the superfly, but I already logged those observations here. 
This is by far the best producing media Ive used so far, and have used several peoples signature medias in addition to the standard carolina mix. The only one that compares for fly production is the NW power mix a la Darren Meyers recipe, but I havent mixed any up for comparison yet, and because its such a pain to mix up I dont think Ill even bother


----------



## JeremyHuff

Allen Repashy said:


> Thanks for the feedback Jeremy. Interesting that several people commented they were getting 12 cultures per pound using the same directions..lol
> 
> Are you heaping or packing the measuring cup? It should be loosely filled and scraped flat. I get 45 grams in 1/4 cup..... so 450 grams for ten cultures.
> 
> Allen


I am using a scoop leveled off. Not packed or heaped. Not sure why the discrepancy.


----------



## Allen Repashy

JeremyHuff said:


> I am using a scoop leveled off. Not packed or heaped. Not sure why the discrepancy.


I just had a conversation with Glenn and he pointed out that a Canadian Cup is different than a US cup...... 

A Canadian Cup is a "Metric Cup" or 250ml. A U.S. Cup is 236ml.... Maybe you and others out there have Metric Cups as I found both at my local Smart and final..... I guess now I need to think again about the instructions and clarify this....

And an Imperial Cup is 284 ml .

And a Japaness Cup is 200 ML LMAO.....

I wish I could just do it by metric weights but I can't assume everyone has a scale.....

For those of you who do, here is my formula.

hot water: 45 grams to 160ml (160 grams water) 

boiling water: 34 grams to 160ml water

I bet a lot of you don't know that one liter of water at room temp weighs a kilo (1000grams) so 1 ml = 1 gram ......


----------



## frogfreak

And here's a decent site for conversions.

Canadian Cups to US Cups conversion calculator

Who knew...


----------



## Allen Repashy

Well,we are going into three weeks this weekend for those who got the offer early on so there should be some melano cultures that are really cranking now and some hydei that should be full of pupae and have lots of larvae by now aso, so I look forward to more feedback this weekend. 

Allen


----------



## JeremyHuff

I realize it might be difficult with packaging, but could you include a plastic scoop, like you get with Carolina mix? My scoops are kitchen aid. Can't remember if I bought them in Canada or here. 

J


----------



## Allen Repashy

JeremyHuff said:


> I realize it might be difficult with packaging, but could you include a plastic scoop, like you get with Carolina mix? My scoops are kitchen aid. Can't remember if I bought them in Canada or here.
> 
> J


That would add a lot of cost to the media... and once you bought a bag or two, you would just be throwing them away. Once you come up with a ratio that works with you, it doesn't matter what you are using. It sounds like using a tablespoon will work better than a cup because I think the smaller size cultures will prove out to work very well with this media...... 3 tablespoons to 2/3 cup boiling water seems to be more than enough even for hydei and this should yield 13-14 cultures per pound. A 2 tablespoon size culture should work fine for melanogaster and would make 20 cultures per pound.

Allen


----------



## PeanutbuttER

Not sure if you're still formally interested in these criteria or not so much, but I didn't address them before.



Allen Repashy said:


> How it smells
> How long it lasts
> How many flies it produces in a month.
> It's potential for gutloading Flies
> It's ability to be mold free
> How fast it produces the first flies.
> How easy it is to mix
> How expensive it is
> How easy it is to source
> How well it retains moisture and doesn't dry out
> How it holds it's form and doesn't get sloppy and slide around when you turn it over.
> 
> What is important to you?
> 
> Allen


The most important criteria for me are 
1) Consistency of production (if I continue to make cultures from the same media can I expect to have the same results). This is a must and is one of the key reasons I choose not to make my own media.
2) Mold resistance. The way I keep my flies has grown mold in my cultures before. I prefer media that will resist mold.
3) Smell. I share my apartment (and life) with my wife who doesn't really like bugs to begin with. If cultures start to smell, she will be the first to notice.
4) Price. I could make my own media, but instead I opt for a pre-made mix. I want one that both makes a lot of cultures and is priced reasonably. This comes down to price per culture generally speaking. If the price per culture is good and the other criteria are all in line then it's a good value to me.


And an update on my cultures. Both Repashy and the other one are doing fine. The Repashy does have more flies, maybe 1.5x or 2x or so. Since I didn't count how many flies I put into each culture in the beginning, this could be explained by having put more into the Repashy at the getgo (however, I think it is producing more). The maggots in the Repashy have slowed down considerably compared to the first maggots I saw. They are however more energetic still than in my other media. They also still have a decidedly red/orange color absent in the other media.

The media itself is holding up great. I really like that it takes less dry media to do the same thing as the other brand. That wins some points in the value category with me. Next time I make cultures (the third set with repashy) I want to give the 2 tbs version a try since that would double its value. I also really like how much it expands. At about 3 weeks old the repashy seems to still be moist.

Smell isn't as pleasant as my other media, but still not offensive by any means. 

Mold: None yet and it looks like it will stay that way. I didn't add anything extra, just made it according to the recipe. 

I'm not a huge fan of the packaging. Personal preference I'm sure.


----------



## frogmanchu

the superfly is awesome! I got way more flies out of it then i did my media mix. thank you Aleen for the great products sir. Keep them coming.


----------



## frogfreak

After messing around with a dozen cultures I think I have it dialed in now. 3 Canadian Tablespoons (LMAO) to 1/2 cup of boiling water. I like the boiling water the best. It disperses everything better IME. The one very nice thing about the medium is even if your ratios are off, it is easily corrected with a pinch or two of medium or a bit of water. I was able to go back and correct all the previous cultures with ease.

Here's what I eneded up with: It is very fresh...



Just over and inch of medium:



Now for zie flies...


----------



## rozdaboff

4th round of Repashy cultures.

Comments: 
*Cultures seeded 5/15:*
Melanogaster cultures are still producing - and would probably keep producing for another 3-4 weeks if I let them go that long. My Carolina cultures were burnt out mid-last week (although that is the way I aim for it to be).

Hydei (Black and Golden) and Buzzati continue to produce - although the media is a little runny. The numbers of Golden Hydei produced are impressive.


*Cultures seeded 5/22:*
Melanogaster cultures were made using 2tbs medium and 1/2c water; they are producing well and there is still plenty of undisturbed medium left. 

Hydei/Buzzati cultures were made using 3tbs medium and 2/3c water. There are already moderate numbers of hatched black hydei in the culture started 5/22. That is the shortest hydei hatch I have ever had. The medium in some of the containers is really soupy; so for my conditions - using 2/3c medium is too much. I would probably start with 1/2 cup and then add water as needed to get the right consistency.


*Cultures seeded 5/31:*
Melanogaster cultures were made using 1tbs medium and 1/4c water. There is no evidence of cultures drying out; FF larvae are present in all levels of the medium (no unused medium). I really like the way that this ratio is turning out - and will probably be the way that I use the medium for melanogaster.

Hydei/Buzzati cultures were made using 2tbs medium and 1/2c water. I probably should have used a little less water, as the medium is a little runny. Larval production is as described in previous weeks (better in black hydei and buzzati than golden hydei).


*NEW cultures seeded today (6/5):*
Based on the outcome of the melanogaster cultures seeded last week, I again used a ratio of 1tbs medium and 1/4c boiling water.

For the hydei and buzzati cultures though, I still felt that there was excess medium in the cultures for how long I want to keep cultures going. So, I decreased the amount of medium in the cultures to ~1.5tbs and added 1/3c water. 1/3c medium produced a slightly dryer medium than I had used in previous weeks - but given my issues with loose (soupy) medium - I will see how this works out over a period of a few weeks.


----------



## frogmanchu

I did a test culture and wow! This stuff is great. Thanks Allen for the great media. The directions on the bag work perfectly, and the flies that bloom after is a crazy mass production for both Hydei and Melanos.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Not to distract from this thread, but in case anyone is interested in testing any of my other products, I just released two additional new insect culture related products over on my forums with a similar feedback request offer.

While working on the SuperFly, I was also working hard on a whole new type of product line that is a series of ready to make Gel Premixes. The first two are insect related, and the next one in line is a Tadpole Diet which I have been testing for more than a year now with the huge tadpole variety over at Sandfire. Unfortunately, there aren't any Dendros over there. Mostly Phyllomedusa and Litoria...... The tadpole diet will be feedable as a powder or a gel..... 

Anyways, here is the link to the SuperGel Introduction, and another to the offer. 

Thanks guys again for all the feedback so far on the Superfly.

Please don't start talking about these products in this thread... Someone can start a new thread here if you guys want to talk about it, or just go to my forums.... 

Cheers, Allen

Allen

maybe this should be moved to a new thread if the mods think that would be best.....


----------



## randfp

I only look for two things in my fruitfly cultures, high yielding and no smell (specially for my wife...lol) and I both find them with your Superfly. Thanks again Allen.


----------



## fleshfrombone

So even with that dry culture I made I'm seeing pretty damned good results. Unlike the goopy media the flies are able to walk on the surface and not get stuck/die. There are maggot trails through the entire medium. The flies I seeded with were from an old culture and stunted. Their offspring are fat and juicy. I should add this was with the dry yeast sprinkled on top. Impressive stuff Allen, thanks.


----------



## frogparty

2nd round of cultures for me. Original run of cultures made on 5-11 still going strong, and are being harvested from every other day. Have about 1/2 the media they started with still left, and plenty of maggot activity throughout the media. 

OBSERVATIONS: 1st round cultures
*no mold on the cultures-awesome!
*no mites in the cultures-awesome!
*media has maintained consistency, and has gone neither soupy or dry- double bonus!!!
*media does not smell rancid,or mushroomy-awesome!
*cultures have already out produced the other mix by so large a margin it has ceased to be funny. Other culture on carolina mix starting to produce stunted adults, flies in the superfly are just as fat as the first harvest

OBSERVATIONS: 2nd round cultures.
*media mixed by adding 1/3 cup h2o(boiling) to jar first, then 1/4 cup media, then 1/3 cup h20(boiling). No stirring, and the media seemed to mix much easier than doing all dry media, then all water. 
*I liked the initial boost from the active yeast, so I added it again this time. Just a few dozen grains on top of the cooled media.

Thanks again Allen, great product


----------



## pl259

Nice write up Oz. Are you using excelsior, coffee filters, ???

Eric


rozdaboff said:


> 4th round of Repashy cultures.
> 
> Comments:
> *Cultures seeded 5/15:*
> Melanogaster cultures are still producing - and would probably keep producing for another 3-4 weeks if I let them go that long. My Carolina cultures were burnt out mid-last week (although that is the way I aim for it to be).
> 
> Hydei (Black and Golden) and Buzzati continue to produce - although the media is a little runny. The numbers of Golden Hydei produced are impressive.
> 
> 
> *Cultures seeded 5/22:*
> Melanogaster cultures were made using 2tbs medium and 1/2c water; they are producing well and there is still plenty of undisturbed medium left.
> 
> Hydei/Buzzati cultures were made using 3tbs medium and 2/3c water. There are already moderate numbers of hatched black hydei in the culture started 5/22. That is the shortest hydei hatch I have ever had. The medium in some of the containers is really soupy; so for my conditions - using 2/3c medium is too much. I would probably start with 1/2 cup and then add water as needed to get the right consistency.
> 
> 
> *Cultures seeded 5/31:*
> Melanogaster cultures were made using 1tbs medium and 1/4c water. There is no evidence of cultures drying out; FF larvae are present in all levels of the medium (no unused medium). I really like the way that this ratio is turning out - and will probably be the way that I use the medium for melanogaster.
> 
> Hydei/Buzzati cultures were made using 2tbs medium and 1/2c water. I probably should have used a little less water, as the medium is a little runny. Larval production is as described in previous weeks (better in black hydei and buzzati than golden hydei).
> 
> 
> *NEW cultures seeded today (6/5):*
> Based on the outcome of the melanogaster cultures seeded last week, I again used a ratio of 1tbs medium and 1/4c boiling water.
> 
> For the hydei and buzzati cultures though, I still felt that there was excess medium in the cultures for how long I want to keep cultures going. So, I decreased the amount of medium in the cultures to ~1.5tbs and added 1/3c water. 1/3c medium produced a slightly dryer medium than I had used in previous weeks - but given my issues with loose (soupy) medium - I will see how this works out over a period of a few weeks.


----------



## Allen Repashy

Ok Guys,

We are entering week four on first made cultures so lets hear how things are holding up.

Allen


----------



## frogparty

I feel confident that the cultures I made on 5/11 will be continuing to produce well until my newly made cultures made yesterday start to produce well. Looking like I will be able to get by with making fewer cultures per month, which is great. And what is especially good is the fact that 1/4 cup dry media repashy is outproducing 1/2 cup dry media carolina mix by a LOT. So much nicer for me to deal with, I will continue to use this product, and will start trying some of the other repashy products as well


----------



## rozdaboff

Thanks Eric. I use Excelsior in my cultures.

Oz



pl259 said:


> Nice write up Oz. Are you using excelsior, coffee filters, ???
> 
> Eric


----------



## johnc

Is there an offer still on this media Allen? I'm late coming to this thread.


----------



## Colleen53

johnc said:


> Is there an offer still on this media Allen? I'm late coming to this thread.


You and me both!! Any specials Allen?


----------



## Allen Repashy

Sorry Guys, 

You missed it by a month and I am already getting the feedback I was looking for from the great volunteers that took the offer.

Cheers, Allen


----------



## Boondoggle

From cultures started 5/14/11


6/03/11

Activity - Pulled out cultures for visual inspection. I haven't fed from the cultures yet.


Observations - Hydei 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Beginning to Boom. Pretty indistinguishable from the other Hydei, except more media left.
Hydei 2 (Repashy) - Beginning to Boom. Pretty indistinguishable from the other Hydei, except more media left.
Hydei 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Beginning to Boom. Pretty indistinguishable from the other Hydei, except more media left.
Melano 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - BOOMING. This is odd, I'm not sure what happened this last week, but of all the Melano this one has the most flies...probably 20% more!
Melano 2 (Repashy) - A decently booming culture. Still many active maggots. A lot of the media has been consumed
Melano 3 (Repashy with yeast) - This is what's odd. This was the first to produce, but now has the least amount. Still booming, but the least of the melano.

This really came as a surprise. It looks like Brand "J" caught up (or even surpassed in fly production in the case of the melano). Apparently a faster culture isn't necessarily a bigger culture.


6/07/11

Activity - Pulled out cultures for visual inspection. Fed from Melano cultures


Observations - Hydei 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Looks like this one is the biggest producer by a small margin. TONS of flies, lots of maggots of all sizes. Coffee filters still in tact.
Hydei 2 (Repashy) - A good healthy culture, but not as strong as Hydei 1. Not many maggots visible. Coffee filters disintegrated and a noticeable amount of drowned(?) flies.
Hydei 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Same as Hydei 2, but even more dead flies
Melano 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Booming culture. Slightly more than Melano 2 or 3. Lots of tiny maggots visible.
Melano 2 (Repashy) - Booming culture, not as many flies as Melano 1. Not many maggots, and culture media getting low. 
Melano 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Booming culture, not as many flies as Melano 1 or 2. Not many maggots, and culture media getting low.

These cultures are much older than I usually begin feeding from. I just happened to have a lot of flies right now and the bean beetles bloomed in the meantime so I haven't gotten to them until now. What's odd is that the cultures that boomed first (Repashy) don't seem to have the most flies by the time I am feeding from them. One thing I noticed that might account for that is drowned flies in all Repashy cultures. It may be possible that because these hold water longer (definitely wetter) they hold more of a danger for adult flies, especially when the coffee filters start breaking down. I may try adding screen material, or something else that doesn't break down, in place of coffee filters to see if that helps. The patten is basically the same in both Hydei and Melano, though. I see flies first in Repashy with yeast, then Repashy, then Brand "J". After 3 weeks, Fly Production seems to be Brand "J", then Repashy, then Repashy with yeast. I also noticed that I would see large maggots in Repashy, and mostly small ones in Brand "J". I took that as a positive for Repashy, but recently it was mentioned that small maggots can be crowded out of the media into the visible area if the media is especially full of large maggots, so that may be what I'm seeing. 


6/10/11

Activity - Pulled out cultures for visual inspection. Have been feeding from Melano and Hydei since the 7th.

Observations - Hydei 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Typical producing culture. Still producing both flies and maggots
Hydei 2 (Repashy) - Producing slightly less than Hydei 1. Coffee filters gone at this point and I'm seeing drowned flies.
Hydei 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Like Hydei 2 but with slightly less flies.
Melano 1 (Brand "J" with yeast) - Typical producing culture. Still producing both flies and maggots
Melano 2 (Repashy) - Producing slightly less than Melano 1. Mites starting to become visible.
Melano 3 (Repashy with yeast) - Smallest fly yield of all. Mites pretty plentiful.

Well, the mites have begun to show up. I keep all cultures in drawers on mite paper, but they usually start to bloom at this time. Again, I am surprised to see that the cultures that bloomed first (Repashy) are now producing the least for me. It makes me wonder if the dip I've seen in the Repashy samples is due to a well nourished mite colony competing. I also discovered that coffee filters are not the best alternative with Repashy as it holds moisture better and dissolves the filters much earlier than I'm used to. I don't think this is necessarily a typical test because I think I am harvesting later than most people would. I tend to hold on to my cultures longer than many (which is why I have mites no doubt), and I have harvested these late even by my standards. Based on these tests, I don't plan on using yeast in the Repashy cultures in the future. I've made a few batches over the weeks of blends between Repashy and Brand "J" and though I haven't been keeping as close watch on those, they seem at this point to have bloomed earlier than brand "J" alone, and be producing as much or more.

But the bottom line is that at this point in this limited comparison, the Repashy is producing less than Brand "J". I don't know if it's because the media is wetter and the flies have less places to safely walk, or if it's because Repashy is more nutritious and the mites come in early and compete, or something else. It just seems like something odd has come into play because I would assume that nutritional factors that would make a culture bloom early would also make the culture boom hardest. Thoughts anyone?


----------



## Allen Repashy

Hey Boondoggle,

Thanks for all the detailed feedback you have given over the course. My first impression is that maybe you mixed it a little too wet from the start as you commented in all your posts about it being wetter than you are used to. The "wetness" of your finished media shouldn't appear much different than your other media once it is set up. Your comment on the broken down coffee filters seems to back this up also.

Are you making your batches with hot, or boiling water, and what amounts were you using? If flies are drowning then this would explain why production starts good and slows down over time. Was the media getting sloppy when you poured? 

Cheers, Allen


----------



## Boondoggle

Allen Repashy said:


> Hey Boondoggle,
> 
> Thanks for all the detailed feedback you have given over the course. My first impression is that maybe you mixed it a little too wet from the start as you commented in all your posts about it being wetter than you are used to. The "wetness" of your finished media shouldn't appear much different than your other media once it is set up. Your comment on the broken down coffee filters seems to back this up also.
> 
> Are you making your batches with hot, or boiling water, and what amounts were you using? If flies are drowning then this would explain why production starts good and slows down over time. Was the media getting sloppy when you poured?
> 
> Cheers, Allen


Hi Allen,

That is definitely a possibility, and could explain the production drop towards the end. I mixed 1/4 cup Superfly to 2/3 cup boiling distilled water as per directions. As you mentioned, It was a bit wetter than I'm used to, but I stuck to the label ratios for fear that I might introduce another variable.

It's interesting that you ask about the sloppiness of the batch. The cultures stayed solid until about week 3-4 when the media got low enough that the "active layer" touched the bottom. Then they got a little sloppy.

That is different than what I'm used to. Usually with Brand "J", at the 3-4 week mark, the media gets dry enough to start cracking, whereas the Superfly is getting a runny layer on top. Is that normal?

I'm going to mix a few "dryish" batches this weekend and see how they finish at the end of a month. It's quite possible that I've mixed them too wet to start with. It definitely dries differently than the media's Ive used before. Thanks for the tips (and also the opportunity to test Superfly).


----------



## Boondoggle

Another thought...Over the years, in an effort to keep my cultures from drying out, I started keeping them closed in closed plastic drawers. When developing Superfly, did you store developing cultures in the open, or closed away? Is it possible that my conditions don't allow enough airflow to keep Superfly from going "soupy" on week 3-4, or has that been tested? 

Thanks again for the feedback. It's not often you get interact in this kind of interchange on a new product.


----------



## Mitch

Just going to put this out there... with hydei I'm getting some insane production with the repashy media. Way better than Josh's frogs media (don't know if I'm allowed to say that?). I use a little more water than it says on the media bag and I use coffee filters for extra surface area. I keep the cultures at 80% humidity and 70-75 degrees. I have a video of a culture that I may post tomorrow.


----------



## johnc

Allen Repashy said:


> You missed it by a month and I am already getting the feedback I was looking for from the great volunteers that took the offer.


That's a shame Allen. Where can we buy this fabled medium?



Mitch said:


> (don't know if I'm allowed to say that?)


You maniac! You've killed us all!! LOL


----------



## Allen Repashy

Boondoggle said:


> Another thought...Over the years, in an effort to keep my cultures from drying out, I started keeping them closed in closed plastic drawers. When developing Superfly, did you store developing cultures in the open, or closed away? Is it possible that my conditions don't allow enough airflow to keep Superfly from going "soupy" on week 3-4, or has that been tested?
> 
> Thanks again for the feedback. It's not often you get interact in this kind of interchange on a new product.


We could be getting somewhere with this.... I did all my work with them just on a shelf in a regular room in the house (not a humid frog or gecko room) Obviously they aren't drying out, so a little less water and a little more air flow could do the trick.... there are so many freaking variables that effect cultures..... that's why I put this test out there because I was limited to four different conditions doing testing.

I thank you for following the directions exactly first time around... now take your observations and adjust and see what we come up with. 

I think in the end, each person needs to develop their protocol based on their individual conditions. I am really happy it has worked well "out of the box" for the majority of folks here on the first try. I would be ignorant if I think that everyone will take the time do dial it in, or have the conditions that will allow it, but I am looking forward to long term feedback for those who continue to use it.

Allen


----------



## Ed

Please read entire post before jumping to conclusions. 


When evaluating a food source for rearing feeder insects, it helps to have a basic understanding of the nutritional needs of not only the feeders but the consuming animals. As a result, the first evaluation should begin with a close scrutiny of the ingredients listed on the label (if provided) to see if the nutritional needs of the feeders are met. On review of Repashy’s Superfly label, the only things that caught my eye from this perspective are the carotenoids and the fat soluble vitamins, A, D, and E.
Drosophila ssp. have a relatively little need for vitamin A in the form of retinoids, and only the larvae store or accumulate carotenoids specifically zeaxanthin and/or β-cryptoxanthin. The stored carotenoids are converted during pupation into rhodopsin (3-hydroxyretinol). The adults do not store carotenoids or retinoids with the exception of rhodopsin. So based on the available literature, unless the hobbyist is going to be feeding large amounts of larva to the frogs, carotenoids other than those mentioned above are unlikely to make it to consuming animal(s). The reason is that on analysis, the larvae do not appear to store other carotenoids, however small amounts of carotenoids adhered to or ingested by the larva may be carried to the consuming animal. The adults do not store carotenoids in excess of those needed for the formation of rhodopsin and the quantity of carotenoids in the digestive tract is suspect due to the rapid turnover of the gut contents (approximately 6 hours). This gut transit time is so rapid that unless the flies are immediately consumed, they may be able to void their entire gut contents. 
Drosophila ssp. utilizes vitamin D simply as a precursor for cholesterol, and does not store detectable levels of the vitamin as either the larvae or the adult fly. 
Drosophila ssp. do uptake and store α and γ tocopherols, many of which are used as a source of vitamin E. The flies are able to absorb and store the tocopherols at levels that far exceed the concentration found in the media and to the extent that animals fed the flies could develop conditional deficiencies of A and/or D3. 
Once you are comfortable with the ingredients on the label, the next step is the actual physical trials of the media to see if it meets your needs. Under a variety of conditions the Superfly has proven itself easier to work with than the modified Carolina media* that I typically use. The only downside in this case is that unlike the Carolina based media, it isn’t as easy to work with in large batches as it sets up too readily and results in a very uneven surface if spooned into individual cups. I have to note, that I am able to skip a step of microwaving my cultures to control mold and help control mites so overall making cultures may actually be even. 
Unlike a number of other media, it is very easy to see the larvae feeding and moving in the media. Based on an understanding of larval behaviors, it appears that the nutrients are evenly distributed in the media as the majority show a scramble feeding behavior. In addition, mold is difficult to get to grow on the media possibly due to the use of three different mold inhibitors in the recipe. Other factors such as time to emergence, number of flies produced at each emergence, and duration of productive life are hard to correctly compare as there are strong genetic and environmental components that affects each and every one of these factors. As a result, all I can in honesty state is that the media is acceptable with respect to each of those factors. Unlike other types of media I have used, this media does appear to be utilized to a greater extent by the culture as it ages. I have several cultures sitting out away from mite paper to see if they develop large numbers of mites later in the life of the cultures. Mite numbers at 30 days appear to relatively negligible, which has strong implications that these cultures may have a longer shelf life than those of other medias. It will require more trials before I am comfortable saying with certainty that this is the case. One side note I should make, is that addition of active yeast is not necessary but it appears to encourage a more rapid egg laying by females (assuming that the cultures are started with older females). 
Overall, the media shows excellent potential as a rearing substrate for the flies and providing a nutritious feeder insect. It is relatively easy to use, even older cultures don’t seem to develop a foul odor and is well accepted by the flies. I have spoken to the manufacturer and he has reduced the level of tocopherols to an absolute minimum to comply with labeling requirements and when new labels can be manufactured, the tocopherols will be eliminated entirely. As the vitamin A and D3 don’t play a large part in the insect on an as fed basis, there isn’t any real need to remove them and according to the manufacturer it wouldn’t change the cost as they are obtained premixed with other components. 
Overall, I can say that I am satisfied with the performance of the media and happy to have been chosen to run trials to see how well it fits my needs. I will continue to use this media in the future (well as soon as I use up my store of the modified Carolina mix..). I look forward to seeing new products from Repashy Superfoods in the future. 

· Modified Carolina Style Media 
· 8 cups potato flakes
· ½ cup brewer’s or nutritional yeast
· 1 cup of powdered sugar
· 8 cups premade Carolina Bio Supply Company media
· 1 tablespoon of spirulina per cup of dry media added at the time of mixing

Cooke, J.; Sang, J.H.; 1970; Utilization of sterols by by larvae of Drosophila melanogaster; J. Insect Physiol. 16: 801-812
Draper, Harold H.; Philbrick, Diana P.; Agarwal, Sanjiv; Meidiger, Roy; Phillips, John P.; 2000; Avid uptake of lineolic acid and vitamin E by Drosophila melanogaster; Nutrition Research 20(1):113-120
Giovannucci, David R.; Stephenson, Robert S.; 1999; Identification and distribution of dietary precursors of the Drosophila visual pigment chromophore: analysis of carotenoids in wild type and ninaD mutants by HPLC; Vision Research 39(2): 219-229
Isono, Kunio; Tanimura, Teiichi; Oda, Yoshiharu; Tsukahara, Yasuo; 1988; Dependency on light and vitamin A derivatives of the biogenesis of 3-hydroxyretinol and visual pigment in the compound eyes of _Drosophila melanogaster_; Journal of General Physiology 92: 587-600
Nahida, Sidey; Mueller, Lawrence D.; The effects of ammonia on the foraging path lengths of Drosophila melanogaster larvae; http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~mueller/pdf/Nahida Excellence Paper.pdf
Wertheim, Bredgie; Marchais, Julien; Vet, Louise, E.M.; Dicke, Marcel; 2002; Allee effect in larval resource exploitation in Drosophila: an interaction among density of adults, larvae and micro-organisms; Ecological Entomology 27(5):608-617


----------



## Boondoggle

Allen Repashy said:


> I think in the end, each person needs to develop their protocol based on their individual conditions. I am really happy it has worked well "out of the box" for the majority of folks here on the first try. I would be ignorant if I think that everyone will take the time do dial it in, or have the conditions that will allow it, but I am looking forward to long term feedback for those who continue to use it.


Just to be clear, I am very happy with the product. In my first test run it produced just slightly less than a media that I consider head and shoulders above every other media I've tried (and in conditions which, in retrospect, HIGHLY favored the competition). 

A few more notes of interest. I just discovered that somehow, I missed putting flies in a culture I made 3 weeks ago. No mold had developed. 

Also, I have had a buzzati culture limping along through three "generations" that just wouldn't thrive well enough to feed off of. After a month, the culture would get disgusting and I would transfer the surviving flies to a new culture. Almost 2 weeks ago I transferred my last 10 flies to a Superfly culture. I looked today and found no flies, but TONS of maggot activity.


----------



## rozdaboff

Week 5 of Repashy cultures 

Comments: 
*Cultures seeded 5/15:*
Melanogaster cultures are still producing and seemed to have undergone a second bloom

Hydei (Black and Golden) and Buzzati - still medium left, but not much production. I imagine these cultures would need another week before a second "bloom" of flies.


*Cultures seeded 5/22:*
Melanogaster cultures were made using 2tbs medium and 1/2c water. Still have unused medium left - very little production, but like cultures from 5/15, I would expect a second bloom next week.

Hydei/Buzzati cultures were made using 3tbs medium and 2/3c water. Lots of flies; medium remains runny.


*Cultures seeded 5/31:*
Melanogaster cultures were made using 1tbs medium and 1/4c water. These cultures are in full bloom this week. Not much medium remaining (which is what I was aiming for). Bloom of flies is a little less than my modified Carolina mix.

Hydei/Buzzati cultures were made using 2tbs medium and 1/2c water. Starting to get hatching of the standard black hydei. Buzzati and Goldens will need another few days to hatch out.

*Cultures seeded 6/5:*
The ratio of 1tbs medium and 1/4c boiling water remains moist and there are lots of melanogaster larvae.

Cultures made with ~1.5tbs medium and 1/3c water. Cultures are not too dry - and larvae are seen in both hydei types and buzzati (most larvae in black hydei). Looking forward to see how they bloom next week.

*Cultures seeded today (6/12):*
Cultures mixed same as last week.


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## insularexotics

Sorry it has taken me so long to add my experiences. I have only started 2 batches so far. When compared to my modified Carolina mix growing Turkish glider and apterous melanogaster, the Superfly cultures seem to be several days ahead in terms of pupae forming. There also appears to be more pupae, but this could simply be that the Superfly cultures are a few days ahead. It's been 12 days since the first cultures and I haven't seen emergence yet, but I anticipate it to begin any day now. I've removed all the adults to be able to quantify first emergence. I tried adding yeast and without added baker's yeast for both media. I can't see any difference in the Superfly with respect to yeast addition.

Just based on my observations thus far, I'd switch to Superfly. But I just bought 50# of potato powder from a board sponsor. So I'm stuck with my mix for a while yet  Anyone want to buy potato powder?


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## PeanutbuttER

Just noticed this last night (actually, notice about a week or so ago, but just noticed it having a bad effect last night). Here are 2 cultures, one J-media the other Repashy. Both made on 5/15. The J-media's side and top are clear and clean. The Repashy's are moist and it looks like the flies have tracked media up on the sides of the culture. It was made according to the standard directions.

















J-media:








Repashy









By itself, not a problem but I looked closely and when I shake the flies up to feed they get stuck in the media on the sides and die. I keep my cultures in a cupboard, so low ventilation (which I'm sure is why I'm getting different results than everyone else). Next time I make it I will cut back on the water a bit to see if that makes a difference if that sounds like a good idea. 

So far this is the only negative that I've seen with your media. Edit: and to be fair it seems to me more of a negative in my situation only and only is a problem with the directions, not the media itself.


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## Allen Repashy

Thanks for the pics,

It seems that everything people have been doing to prevent regular cultures from drying out such as putting cultures in a closed cabinet..... don't make Superfly happy. I would suggest mixing it drier, or better yet, get it out of a closed cabinet and get the culture some air flow which should do it good in more ways than one. Putting cultures in a closed cabinet is almost like putting a closed lid on the culture depending on the seal, size and humidity that builds up in the cabinet.


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## fleshfrombone

I'm sure this is anecdotal but looking at the superfly cultures vs my own mix, I don't see mites attracted to superfly like the others. Has anyone else noticed this?


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## frogparty

yes Ryan I have noticed it as well. After the three week mark, I can expect mites to start becoming a nuisance to culture production in my carolina mix, but I have seen no indications of mites yet in any of my repashy cultures. I am culturing mine out in the open with no mite paper(don't believe in extra chemicals if I can help it) and so far am having no mires or drying issues. Id say this media is pretty well suited to my needs.


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## gary1218

Quick comment on my first cultures. They are a month old today and still producing well. No mites, no mold, no smell.

I'm also doing some 1/2 size cultures, 1/8 cup media to 1/3 cup water. That ratio mixes up well for me. For me they're following along the same as the full size cultures.


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## Ed

fleshfrombone said:


> I'm sure this is anecdotal but looking at the superfly cultures vs my own mix, I don't see mites attracted to superfly like the others. Has anyone else noticed this?


Yep, I have some sitting out waiting for the mites to come....I commented on it above. 

Ed


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## Allen Repashy

If more of you guys who have known mite issues would keep some SuperFly cultures going a long time and observe them for mite contamination, this would be interesting. I don't want to speak too soon, but I think there is actually something happening here because of my unique combination of ingredients that does have the potential to inhibit mites. I never had mites in any of my test cultures even at eight weeks, but I thought I just got lucky from starting in a clean room with clean cultures..... So don't throw those cultures away and let's see how this plays out! We can always have high hopes! 

Allen


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## Tony

Sorry to be a buzzkill, but I have thriving populations of mites in my Superfly cultures. They appeared when I started making my own mix and I haven't had much luck eliminating them yet.


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## Allen Repashy

Tony said:


> Sorry to be a buzzkill, but I have thriving populations of mites in my Superfly cultures. They appeared when I started making my own mix and I haven't had much luck eliminating them yet.


That's why we call it feedback! Interesting some are reporting less infestation..... keep it coming.


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## Julio

so i decided to give this a try and my cultures are on day 6 and the ammount of larvae in them is ridiculous!!! i just placed another order for more media, best i have tried so far, and there have been many.


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## JJuchems

Tony said:


> Sorry to be a buzzkill, but I have thriving populations of mites in my Superfly cultures. They appeared when I started making my own mix and I haven't had much luck eliminating them yet.


I concur, I had a culture over running with mites and used flies from that culture on a 2nd round of Super Fly. This media can be infested just as well as any other. One can only dream of a mite proof media.


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## Ed

while I didn't use a mite filled culture to start the new cultures, I do have them sitting by some of my cultures that are full of mites (not on mite paper). I have not seen an appreciable level of mites in the cultures (and control cultures of the same duration on mite paper have a crumbly brown layer around the cultures). I even left out the excelsior to make sure I would be able to see mites readily. 
I am not now saying that the cultures are mite proof nor was I earlier.. as there is a difference between mite proof and resistent and coincidence... I have cultures that are approaching 30 days now on mite paper and do not see the presence of mites around the cultures (on the fresh paper) like I see around the carolina style cultures. Only more time will tell. 

Ed


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## Mitch

Yesterday I set up a test... D. hydei on Repashy Superfly vs. D. hydei on Josh's frogs media. Both are being kept side by side @ 70-75*F and 80% Humidity, with 10 coffee filters added to both cultures and a pinch of bakers yeast. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## Allen Repashy

Mites that are added to a culture reproducing in the culture COULD be a different story than mites being attracted or repelled from a culture. For sure, there isn't anything I would say kills mites in the culture, but there could be some ingredients that they don't like which might discourage them from colonizing and encourage them to seek a more appealing source of food..... Just a thought. Comparisons like those Ed are doing will be good sources of feedback for sure.

Allen


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## Darts/Mantellas.by.P3RRY

Just started my Repashy Cultures yesterday Im going to see how long it takes for the population to take off added about 60 flies to each. Also I will keep an eye on the mites. I'll be comparing and contrasting the Repashy to Joshs Frogs culture media which is what I always used before. I also want to see if the flies seem any more robust and healthier. thanks-jp


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## Allen Repashy

Hey Guys,

As posted earlier, I didn't want this to become a brand vs. brand and ask that you just use "Brand X" vs Repashy. I know this thread is getting a mile long and most aren't reading the whole thing at this point so I though I would repost this.

Cheers,

Allen


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## rozdaboff

Week 6 of Repashy cultures. This will probably be my last post update unless something happens in the last rounds of cultures that I haven't already documented. I have some conclusion comments at the end.

Comments: 
*Cultures seeded 5/15 and 5/22:*
I was holding on to these cultures to see if any mites would materialize. I have had a perennial mite problem - and that is one of the reasons that I keep cultures around for as short as possible. Both the Melanogaster cultures started 5/15 as well as a couple of the Hydei cultures seeded on 5/22 broke with mites. So, it was time to trash them.


*Cultures seeded 5/31:*
Melanogaster cultures made with 1 tbs medium and 1/4c are dead. One good round of production and that was it (which again, is what I was aiming for)

Great yields from both types of Hydei (cultures 2tbs medium and 1/2c water) - but medium is a little soupy. Buzzati yields this time around were OK - but I think that is a fly issue (cultures started with older flies) as opposed to a medium issue.

*Cultures seeded 6/5:*
Good blooms of melanogaster (1tbs medium, 1/4c water)

Hydei/buzzati Cultures made with ~1.5tbs medium and 1/3c water. Starting to get production from Black hydei already. Lots of pupae with minimal amounts of extra medium. Remaining medium is also not soupy. These cultures should explode for one round of production and then die.

*Cultures seeded 6/12:*
Good numbers of larvae and pupae, minimal remaining medium (1tbs medium, 1/4c water)

Hydei cultures (1.5tbs medium, 1/3c water) are showing larval development similar to as in previous weeks

*Cultures seeded today (6/19)*
Seeded my next round of hydei/buzzati cultures as done before. I didn't seed any more melanogaster cultures this week due to the fact that I am starting to run low on medium.


*Conclusion Comments*

After 6 weeks of working with the medium, I am happy with the overall results. After overcoming some of the initial mixing issues (it works much better to use boiling water) and figuring out an ideal volume of medium to use and the proper medium/water ratio - the cultures reliably produce good yields of flies. The melanogaster yields are a little less than the modified Carolina mix that I use, but the recipe of this media is definitely more complex [whether a more complex medium results in a healthier fly is a discussion for another thread]. And I feel that for people who want a steady, longer producing culture - this is a great medium. 

Where this medium will work best for me is in culturing some of the other fly species (hydei and buzzati) where my modified Carolina mix fails miserably. I got great production from this medium - as good as or better than other commercial mediums I have used before. And the yield time for black hydei is great (fly production in as short as 14-16 days)

I never experienced any mold issues - although I don't normally have issues with mold. I did get mites in some of the cultures that I kept around for 4-5 weeks, but mites have always been an issue for me.

Thanks for the medium offer Allan - it was fun to play with the culturing conditions for a few weeks.


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## Ed

Interesting. I have yet to see mites in the cultures I set up on 5/15 and I moved some of them to fresh mite paper to see if any are leaving the cultures. I do have mites in the cultures using the Carolina media at that time. 

Ed


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## Allen Repashy

Well, it seems the feedback is slowing down now that we have gone a few rounds with cultures so I would like to thank each and every one of you who took part and contributed to the feedback. I learned a LOT from everyone and have made a few minor tweaks based on the contributions made here. Overall, I am very happy with how things have panned out. I put things on the line when I made this initial request and though I was confident in my product, I was really stressed that something would come up I hadn't considered. First impressions are everything and I am glad it appears I made a good one. I will continue to play with media formulas, but am going to let this one ride. I may turn my focus towards a cold water flake based formula as an additional product as time allows.

Please feel free to continue with long term feedback here, I would like to how long term routine adaption is viewed as time progresses. Mite resistance still seems to be a topic worth continued discussion also...

I am switching gears a bit right now and putting the finishing touches on "Vitamin A Plus" (Vitamin A Dusting Powder)... which was inspired again by the discussions here on the boards so I will be asking for feedback soon. I don't expect a big market for such a product, but I think it has merit and it is an easy product for me to make using my current ingredients.

Thanks, Again, Allen


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## dmartin72

Good on you and I look forward to it!



Allen Repashy said:


> I am switching gears a bit right now and putting the finishing touches on "Vitamin A Plus" (Vitamin A Dusting Powder)... which was inspired again by the discussions here on the boards so I will be asking for feedback soon. I don't expect a big market for such a product, but I think it has merit and it is an easy product for me to make using my current ingredients.
> 
> Thanks, Again, Allen


----------



## Ed

Ed said:


> Interesting. I have yet to see mites in the cultures I set up on 5/15 and I moved some of them to fresh mite paper to see if any are leaving the cultures. I do have mites in the cultures using the Carolina media at that time.
> 
> Ed


Okay we are close to 40 days out and I am beginning to see mites in the cultures. There are small amounts of mites around the cultures on the mite paper. The number of mites on the mite paper is less than that of the modified Carolina mix cultures of the same age.

Ed


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## Boondoggle

Just a few more observations now that I have a 4-5 generations of these cultures under my belt. I couldn't get Buzzati going on my previous brand. Now after switching to SuperFly I have 3 developing cultures (from 10 remaining flies). 

I've made quite a few 50/50 mixes with Brand J/SuperFly and I have to say, they produce very well. They seem to retain the moisture keeping properties of Superfly, which brings me to my biggest "take-away"...

I started having much more success with SuperFly when I began mixing it drier. Typically, with most media, I would mix it just dry enough that it didn't pour out when turned upside down. It would start drying from there and by the end of a month would be cracking/crumbling. SuperFly is very different. It really doesn't seem to lose any moisture at all over time, or if it does, the maggot activity helps to keep the surface "fluid"...hard to explain. I made some ridiculously dry batches just to see what would happen. I made one Turkish Glider batch 3 weeks ago with the consistency of bread dough. Instead of tapping it to settle it, I had to knead it down into the cup with my knuckles. 3 weeks later and it is BOOMING. It seems no drier than the day I made it, and the surface seems soft and creamy from the maggot activity (kind of a gross sentence). This was on a shelf in an air conditioned home in summer.

Bottom line...once I started mixing dry batches it leapfrogged my previous brand in performance with standard melano and Turkish gliders. I need to test "dry" batches with hydei, still. 

I don't know what large batches of SuperFly cost, but if I can afford it I will be switching over. I just wanted to thank Allen for this opportunity to test drive SuperFly.


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## Allen Repashy

Boondoggle said:


> Just a few more observations now that I have a 4-5 generations of these cultures under my belt. I couldn't get Buzzati going on my previous brand. Now after switching to SuperFly I have 3 developing cultures (from 10 remaining flies).
> 
> I've made quite a few 50/50 mixes with Brand J/SuperFly and I have to say, they produce very well. They seem to retain the moisture keeping properties of Superfly, which brings me to my biggest "take-away"...
> 
> I started having much more success with SuperFly when I began mixing it drier. Typically, with most media, I would mix it just dry enough that it didn't pour out when turned upside down. It would start drying from there and by the end of a month would be cracking/crumbling. SuperFly is very different. It really doesn't seem to lose any moisture at all over time, or if it does, the maggot activity helps to keep the surface "fluid"...hard to explain. I made some ridiculously dry batches just to see what would happen. I made one Turkish Glider batch 3 weeks ago with the consistency of bread dough. Instead of tapping it to settle it, I had to knead it down into the cup with my knuckles. 3 weeks later and it is BOOMING. It seems no drier than the day I made it, and the surface seems soft and creamy from the maggot activity (kind of a gross sentence). This was on a shelf in an air conditioned home in summer.
> 
> Bottom line...once I started mixing dry batches it leapfrogged my previous brand in performance with standard melano and Turkish gliders. I need to test "dry" batches with hydei, still.
> 
> I don't know what large batches of SuperFly cost, but if I can afford it I will be switching over. I just wanted to thank Allen for this opportunity to test drive SuperFly.


Really interesting observations and a revelation of sorts because I didn't try anything like this myself. If it works this dry, it might be possible to just mix it up in a bowl like dough and use an ice cream scoop or similar to drop a scoop in.... then if we came up with a plunger of sorts... something that looks like a piston that you could use to mash it flat in the cup, you could make a heck of a lot of cultures in a short amount of time..... mix the batch, plop in a scoop and press it in.... worth playing around with for sure... I am going to have to go give it a try...... and I thought I was done experimenting


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## frogparty

never done experimenting!!!! How bout a cake icing bag to dispense media into jars?


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## Allen Repashy

Maybe you can roll it into a ball and drop it in, then press it flat? are you making it that dry?


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## Allen Repashy

Boondoggle said:


> I don't know what large batches of SuperFly cost, but if I can afford it I will be switching over. I just wanted to thank Allen for this opportunity to test drive SuperFly.


If you go to my website  you can see the pricing. I now have it in an eight pound bag and it comes out to $4.00 per pound if you buy that much The price drops down as far as $2.50 per pound for those that can buy or split up a couple hundred pounds. Good news for you is that you aren't far away, so shipping would be minimal.


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## frogparty

Ill probably buy the 8 lb size next time. Pretty stoked on the media overall, and after I figured out the way I like to mix the media with water best, I really am pleased.


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## Boondoggle

Allen Repashy said:


> Maybe you can roll it into a ball and drop it in, then press it flat? are you making it that dry?


If I remember correctly, just about that dry. I have been making all my SuperFly batches drier since my "drowning" issues, but actually forgot that I had made that "super dry" experimental one until today when I noticed a booming culture and saw that I had written "SUPER-DRY" on it. I was surprised and had forgotten about it because I really expected it to fail. 

I made another very dry one today to see if I could duplicate it. It came out like Play Dough and ended up being about 25% less water than recommended on the label. I will keep you appraised of it's progress.



Allen Repashy said:


> If you go to my website  you can see the pricing. I now have it in an eight pound bag and it comes out to $4.00 per pound if you buy that much The price drops down as far as $2.50 per pound for those that can buy or split up a couple hundred pounds. Good news for you is that you aren't far away, so shipping would be minimal.


Your pricing is more competitive that you led me to believe it would be.


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## frogfreak

These wingless cultures are 23 days old. Repashy on the left and my mix on the right. One thing that I noticed is that the Repashy culture did not turn into a soupy mess at anytime. As you can see mine looks a lot wetter. This could be one reason why my cultures produce less and less over time. Allens mix is still going strong on day 23. The medium remains "Fluffy" not wet at all. I used the coffee filter in the Repashy because I made it a tad to wet at the start. I always use excelsior in mine because coffee fliters tend to dry out the surface of mine when they are fresh. Production was great with the Repashy mix and continues...


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## Allen Repashy

Today is really hot out so I thought I would take a break and play around with some superdry mixes and see what happens. I dumped some superfly in a bowl and started adding hot water in small amounts and mixing in between until I ended up with a product that I could squeeze in my hand and roll into a ball. It was surprisingly not sticky at all. I broke the dough up and rolled it into balls about the size of a tennis ball or a little smaller...... then I just dropped the balls into a 32 ounce cup and used another cup to press the ball flat. With light pressure, the ball did split a bit around the sides, but with firm pressure, it makes a perfectly shaped imprint of the bottom of the previous cup. 

The deli cup bottoms are not flat, so something that is completely flat might be more suitable. Good thing is that it didn't stick to the bottom of the cup after you pressed it.

I would have to say that if these cultures produce well, that this would be one heck of an easy way to make a lot of cultures. You could use a large mixing bowl and make enough dough for probably 50-100 cultures at a time and then press them into the cups. One nice thing is that you get a really clean cup this way because there are no slosh marks from mixing the media with water. 

My concerns are still that it will dry out, so time will tell. Let me know if anyone else is trying cultures like this, and how they are going.

Allen


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## Julio

i did follow the directions on the bag with the 2/3 water, however with me it just dries out after the week period so i made some new ones with 3/4 water and see how that goes, its a little soupy at first, but i am sure it will dry out soon enough.


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## Tony

I had a few cultures that I made with 1/2 the label amount that got a little too dry, rehydrated them with cheap beer and the flies were booming a few days later.


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## Brotherly Monkey

Julio said:


> i did follow the directions on the bag with the 2/3 water, however with me it just dries out after the week period so i made some new ones with 3/4 water and see how that goes, its a little soupy at first, but i am sure it will dry out soon enough.


I take it your running some serious AC?


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## Ed

I've had some cultures get a little too dry and when I've turned them over to tap out the flies, I've had a lot of the surface come loose. 

Ed


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## frogface

I'm going to give it a try. When talking about texture, should it be more like Play Doh (cracks when smooshed) or Silly Putty (stays pliable)?


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## Julio

Brotherly Monkey said:


> I take it your running some serious AC?


yeah the ac runs pretty much all day.


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## Allen Repashy

Running AC can definitely have a big effect on all cultures. I have serious doubts that these ultra dry formulas like the one I just made will last in a low humidity room like that created by Air Conditioning. 

At the end of the day, each consumer will have to develop protocol that works for them in their conditions..... Hopefully everyone will find a way to make SuperFly work for them with a bit of trial and error..... Hopefully it will prove that Superfly is more adaptable than most medias to such varied conditions.

Allen


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## Allen Repashy

frogface said:


> I'm going to give it a try. When talking about texture, should it be more like Play Doh (cracks when smooshed) or Silly Putty (stays pliable)?


it was like Play Doh.... basically, I just made it so that it was as wet as possible, but still handleable. After some of the recent feedback, I seriously doubt that this would work in an Air Conditioned environment or any other with low ambient humidity.

Allen


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## Boondoggle

Allen Repashy said:


> At the end of the day, each consumer will have to develop protocol that works for them in their conditions..... Hopefully everyone will find a way to make SuperFly work for them with a bit of trial and error..... Hopefully it will prove that Superfly is more adaptable than most medias to such varied conditions.
> 
> Allen


That does seem to be the case. Add to that we all probably have different definitions of "dry". 

My "normal" batches still continue to get drippy/sloppy towards the end of their usable lives. My "dry" batches are producing more flies, and for longer, than any cultures I've ever made. I was even able to cut back on the number of cultures I have to make each week (by one) because of the increased production from the "dry" cultures.

Am I the only one who finds the cultures getting more aqueus at about 25 days? I wonder why it would be. It's been 90 degrees outside and the AC is on most of the time lately. 

Incidently, my "dry" was more like putty. I think I used 3/4 the recommended amount of boiling water.


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## tachikoma

I went to make new batch of cultures today and I figured that my original cultures of superfly would be close to dead and nothing much alive in them anymore, but I was going to throw the few flies from those cultures into the new batch as I believe using the "survivors" creates a more hardy breed of fly. Well to my total astonishment all three superfly cultures were still packed with flies! These cultures are over a month old. So needless to say I'm impressed.


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## frogparty

cultures I made on may 11th finally quit producing on july 3rd. no mold, no mites, no sloppiness


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## brod322

I like what I read  Superfly here I come


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## johnc

Thank you to all the willing guinea pigs. Because the special offer was closed when I found out about superfly, I'll wait a while to let the ingredients and techniques reach a stable status before I think of trying this product. Thanks again.


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## Allen Repashy

johnc said:


> Thank you to all the willing guinea pigs. Because the special offer was closed when I found out about superfly, I'll wait a while to let the ingredients and techniques reach a stable status before I think of trying this product. Thanks again.


Hi,

There are no changes planned for the ingredients, and the techniques described in this thread are about as detailed as could possibly be. The bottom line is that EACH user has to figure out what works best for them in their given conditions. This would be the same for ANY media you might choose to use.

Cheers, Allen


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## Allen Repashy

Well today I had a look at the "Play Dough" Dry cultures I made and I am actually shocked at how well they are doing. There are MORE pupae on the sides (I don't use any climbing substrate, so it is easy to compare) of the container than in the regular cultures I made side by side (according to the directions). This is day 14, so we will see how long they last, but I think they will make it another week.

I don't see signs of it drying out, but it is dry. There are pupae that have set up directly on the surface of the media, which I have never seen before.. I don't have AC, and my ambient temp is about 75 with about 60-70% humidity....

I am actually a bit shocked by how this has turned out..... I don't think it would work in a really dry room environment, but if the conditions were good for using this method, you could make a heck of a lot of cultures by mixing it up in a big bowl and then just pressing balls into cups...... 

Anyone else who tried this have any comments?


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## frogparty

yeah, I tried doing it up a bit drier, and it works well. Not sure if there are more pupae in total, but no less than the standard culture.


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## GP dynamite

This being a very popular media and the recent threads on Feeder cultures. Why not ressurect this. Thank you to Ed, Allen and all the other contributors to this thread.


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## frogparty

I still love it..... Never looking back


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## frogfreak

Same here. I can't imagine switching to something else.


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## Nismo95

I have been using repashy's for a few months now and just started on our second pouch of media.. I used to use another vendors and after that 5 pounds ran out I decided to try repashy's.. Love this stuff.. Great yield. Also recently tried a members personal mix recently too and it is pretty good. He apparently is experimenting with his mix a bit with better results. Wont name drop here to keep things on topic. But I love repashy's superfly and its gonna take a bit to change my media from here on out.


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## radiata

I, too, love this stuff, and have no issues with it...


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## Coqui

I also use it and have never had a problem. 
Great production out of it. I do put in a teaspoon
Of vinegar when mixing


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## dgibbons1

I'm assuming its still out and available. I would love to try some but all my normal venders don't carry it. Do you guys buy straight from repashy?


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## cbreon

dgibbons1 said:


> I'm assuming its still out and available. I would love to try some but all my normal venders don't carry it. Do you guys buy straight from repashy?


most of the larger vendors on here carry it. I think you can get it directly from Repashy as well.


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## LizardLicker

dgibbons1 said:


> I'm assuming its still out and available. I would love to try some but all my normal venders don't carry it. Do you guys buy straight from repashy?


Amazon sells it if that is convenient for you...


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## Ed

cbreon said:


> most of the larger vendors on here carry it. I think you can get it directly from Repashy as well.


\

Yes, it can be ordered directly as well. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## mchiareli

Does this media works for Hydei and Melanogaster?


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## PDFanatic

Yes it works great for both!!


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## goof901

Is the boiling water mandatory?
Because I use this http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/119562-jps-ff-culture-idea.html
And i'm not sure if the plastic bags will hold up to boiling water...


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