# is vasaline safe for frogs?



## zaroba (Apr 8, 2006)

replacing the acrylic sliding doors on my large viv with glass ones (so tired of them warping). anyway, i had to put down something for the glass to slide on since its too heavy to slide directly on the pond liner, so i chose a smooth aluminum strip.

however, the glass is still a bit heavy and rough sliding on that. i was thinking of putting some vasaline down to act as a grease between the glass and aluminum. so, is vasaline safe for the frogs?


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

im not sure about vasaline... but what about some sort of food-safe lubricants? I use some stuff for a slushie machine that is 100% non-toxic, FDA approved for use with food... so im sure it would be safe for the frogs, I just cant think of the name of it at the moment... hmmm

*edit* found something similar... http://www.essentialwonders.com/servlet ... ink/Detail


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## Turtlestork (Jan 2, 2008)

Vaseline conserves moisture and i would have to think it would mess with the frogs breathable skin.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

Try using a plastic strip, like teflon or UHMW. You can get some with an adhesive back. Take a look a Mcmaster and/or woodworking supply places, maybe even HD or Lowes. Might be called something like "wear strips".


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

I use wax in the grooves of my big tank sliding doors . The kind for sealing jelly jars . I just scrape a few shavings in the bottom grooves every now and then. It works good.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

pigface said:


> I use wax in the grooves of my big tank sliding doors . The kind for sealing jelly jars . I just scrape a few shavings in the bottom grooves every now and then. It works good.



I'd be afraid to use vaseline because it is made from petroleum (oil). The wax pigface is referring to is paraffin. It is made from food grade oil and edible. It's used to coat fruit (those shiny apples, cucumbers, etc) and is an ingredient in many chocolate coatings (makes em shiny and stable). However, you have to make sure you are using food grade paraffin sold with canning supplies. They also market paraffin for candle-making and that would not be safe.

One last unrelated point, home-canners (another hobby of mine) cringe at the idea of sealing jelly jars with paraffin. It is no longer considered a safe technique and can foster the growth of mold in your product. I know people have used the technique for years and many still do, but then many things have improved with knowledge, car seatbelts, kids car seats, etc, etc, etc. 8)


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

pigface said:


> I use wax in the grooves of my big tank sliding doors . The kind for sealing jelly jars . I just scrape a few shavings in the bottom grooves every now and then. It works good.


I was going to suggest something similar...bee's wax.

Also consider giving both the sliding piece and the track a good polishing. 
The teflon strip sounds like a good idea too.


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## asilsdorf (Sep 7, 2005)

I wouldn't use vaseline or grease as it will attract and hold grit that will eventually scratch the glass, in addition to possibly not being frog safe. 

I like pl259's idea of a plastic strip like teflon. If you don't want to order something from an industrial supply place you might be able to use something made for chair legs or furniture sliders from a local store.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

salix said:


> pigface said:
> 
> 
> > I use wax in the grooves of my big tank sliding doors . The kind for sealing jelly jars . I just scrape a few shavings in the bottom grooves every now and then. It works good.
> ...


Paraffin wax was at least at one time made from petroleum.. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax or http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 647AAogpEd ) I think this is still the primary source of it (as a byproduct of kerosene manufacture). 

All because vaseline was made from petroleum doesn't mean its toxic... If you are concerned about ecological problems.. check out the damage commercial oils are causing (like palm oil...) 

Ed


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Ed said:


> salix said:
> 
> 
> > pigface said:
> ...


That would be the reason I mentioned the difference between food grade paraffin and other types, such as for candle-making.

I wasn't discussing ecological damage caused by commercial production of things like palm oil, only that it can be ingested. I won't get into a debate of the potential health problems with consuming tropical oils, I think that is fairly well established in the health community.

Quote from wikipedia regarding paraffin
"As long as it's food-grade paraffin wax, it's edible but not digestable. Which means it passes right through the body without being broken down. As long as you don't eat too much or swallow a large lump of it (might cause a blockage), it's safe to eat. As you say, it is used in some candies to make them look shiny. (Eating too much of it might cause olestra-like distress, though...) Note: non-food grade paraffin wax can contain oils and other impurities which may be toxic or harmful, so it should not be eaten. -- DrBob"


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

salix said:


> I'd be afraid to use vaseline because it is made from petroleum (oil). The wax pigface is referring to is paraffin. It is made from food grade oil and edible.





salix said:


> That would be the reason I mentioned the difference between food grade paraffin and other types, such as for candle-making.


If you look at your first post.. the statement is made that you are afraid to use vaseline because it is made from petroleum. There isn't any indication that the concern is because vaseline isn't food grade, the wording conveys the idea that because it is petroleum based it is bad. (and oddly enough vaseline or petroleum jelly is known as white soft paraffin in other countries like Britian.....) 
If the person would like to use the major ingredient in vasoline, petroleum jelly this is available in food grade as it is often used as a lubrication in machinery that contacts food.... 
This is what struck me as odd as the major source of paraffin wax including food grade is from a byproduct of kerosene manufacture... With respect to "candle grade" paraffin, if it is of a decent grade this is of high purity as the contaiments cause excessive sooting of the flame... This is undesirable in candles that are to be burned.... 
Any contaminents in the solid wax are highly unlikely to be of concern as they are hydrophobic, solids at room temperature (and the frog is not ingesting them... (even though they would still be solid in the digestive track of a mammal..). In addition, the use in the track of the glass would by its very nature prevent the frogs from contacting the material used including vaseline or petroleum jelly. 



salix said:


> I wasn't discussing ecological damage caused by commercial production of things like palm oil, only that it can be ingested. I won't get into a debate of the potential health problems with consuming tropical oils, I think that is fairly well established in the health community. .


Based on your first post, ecological issues were the only reason I could see to point out that vaseline was made from petroleum. 



salix said:


> Quote from wikipedia regarding paraffin
> "As long as it's food-grade paraffin wax, it's edible but not digestable. Which means it passes right through the body without being broken down. As long as you don't eat too much or swallow a large lump of it (might cause a blockage), it's safe to eat. As you say, it is used in some candies to make them look shiny. (Eating too much of it might cause olestra-like distress, though...) Note: non-food grade paraffin wax can contain oils and other impurities which may be toxic or harmful, so it should not be eaten. -- DrBob"


And this is exactly the same thing that can happen if vaseline is eaten.. in excess.... although its described as needing to be eaten in "large quantities" (see http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/62/11/1167) and is still prescribed as a treatment for fur balls in cats (under various names such as Catlax..) and is used as a personal lubricant so it is being used inside the body..... 

Ed


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

Here's a couple links to what I'm talking about...
http://www.mcmaster.com Check out the UHMW on page 3500
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=902 Called Slick Strips.
Basically AL is soft and glass is hard so it digs into the AL. Having little bits of AL
lying around in your viv probably isn't a good idea either. Make sure to
round over any sharp edges and corners on the glass. There maybe only
a couple spots giving you trouble.


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

Fun stuff. Good use of research, Ed. It is good to point out that petroleum derivatives are not _de facto_ toxic.

The petrolatum (petroleum jelly) in Vasaline is highly edible. Vasaline was originally touted as a cure-all, with it's manufacturers advocating eating a tablespoon a day for digestive health. It does work well as a stool softener, the case cited by Ed notwithstanding. Mineral oil is still used for the same purpose. They are both biologically inert, so they are non-toxic.

They can cause problems if they are outside of the digestive tract, though.
Thoroughly coating the skin of a frog with vasaline would surely kill it. A small area covered would likely be OK, so as long as your frogs don't try to squeeze into the lubricated gap, they'd probably be safe.
But vasaline or mineral oil in the lungs is bad news. It can cause a sterile pneumonia and inflammation and fibrosis, which is bad.

All in all, I agree with the above posts about other alternatives, esp. the teflon strips.




> _She don't use butter.
> She don't use cheese.
> She don't use jelly, or any of these.
> She uses Vasaline._


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## zaroba (Apr 8, 2006)

thanks for the replies guys.
am going to round the corners of the glass a bit and try the teflon/plastic strip.


something else i had considered was vegetable oil or shortening.
except it can get moldy.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

As far as low risk wax goes, there's always bee's wax.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Ya , a teflon or plastic strip in the groove under the glass will work too . I remember now that I also put a plastic strip in the grooves under my glass doors too . But I still need to wax them up every now and then. But the door glass is 1/4 " and is heavy . I've been using the wax on these two tanks for two years now with no problems .


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