# What would you do with a 150g display tank?



## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I've got a 150g, 72"x18"x28" LWH, aquarium sitting in my home, unused now for 3 years I picked up for $325 complete with lighting ((2) 2x96W PC (1 10K/Actinic, 1 10K-only each)), stand, and canopy. As I sit here at the computer, I'm entertaining myself with what kind of an amazing viv this could be made into sometime down the road, should I plan on it. I doubt I will anytime soon only because of the cost involved not only with the frogs, but with the plants!

Anywho, given the dimensions of the tank, regardless of switching the bulbs in each fixture, what would you do with such a tank in terms of inhabitants? I'd really like it to be PDF-related, but any sort of planted viv/paludarium would be considered. The rainforest look is the only thing I'm really interested in having in it (originally going to be a massive skipper, crab, goby, brackish tank).

Here's a terrible photo of the tank (NOTE: The overflow panels have been removed since then, but could easily be replaced in the future.)










Looking forward to your input! 
Mark


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## ISTHOMS (Jul 29, 2011)

i'd do a heavily planted tahk with at least one waterfall and a large group of like leucs or auratus or any other good group frog


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Hydrosaurus pustulatus?


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

ISTHOMS said:


> i'd do a heavily planted tahk with at least one waterfall and a large group of like leucs or auratus or any other good group frog


Blue auratus or fine-spot leucs would be cool indeed.



fieldnstream said:


> Hydrosaurus pustulatus?


I've always adored these beautiful dinosaurs, but I still think, at 4'+ long, they're far too large for a tank this size, and far too expensive. 

Mark


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Markw said:


> I've always adored these beautiful dinosaurs, but I still think, at 4'+ long, they're far too large for a tank this size, and far too expensive.
> Mark


Agreed...could be a grow-out tank though

Have you thought about dividing the tank? You would still have 2 good-sized vivs and could keep sizable groups of both D. leucomelas (which are all-around amazing frogs) and D. auratus (the ancon hill morph is a neat, under-represented morph...just an idea).


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I have. I've even thrown around the idea of making (6) 12x18x28" vivs, or (4) 18x18x28" vivs. But I don't think I like the idea of NEEDING the visual barrier and not being able to see the whole tank as a continuous environment. If I ever made this thing into a viv, I'd like a waterfall, with a long stream running probably 2/3 of the tank length (nothing major, maybe like 2/3" deep) into a pond (again, reasonably shallow for darts) either in the middle or on the opposite side. So, as cool as it would be to have multiple tanks in this one, I think I'd much rather have it as a suitable display tank rather than two or more tanks looking disjointed.

Mark

EDIT: If the attached is the Auratus morph you are talking about, I don't really find them all that attractive for such a tank, to be perfectly honest.









NOT MY PHOTO. I ASSUME NO RIGHTS.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Yes that's the one...they look better in person. If you are looking for something that's going to "pop" maybe a group of orange P. terribilis. I think a bunch of orange frogs would look spectacular and would definitely stand out. 
You could utilize some cheaper large plants to keep costs down. Spathiphyllum and Aglanoema do great in vivs, are super cheap, and would serve to fill in large areas. You could have a few rarer/more expensive plants but wouldn't have to break the bank to do such a large build. Just some thoughts...


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Oh wow. Fancy fancy. What about something like this:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/71866-vics-display-paludarium.html

I've never thought much about Paludariums before. I always was under the impression they were really only for other types of frogs, etc. What is everyone's general opinion of these types of setup? I don't want my frogs to drown..but, after doing a bit of reading, I really don't think that's as big of a problem as I had originally anticipated.

Mark


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## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

Straight up.. wicked detail (GRIMM action detail).... a small water feature/steam... and pound it full of leucs.


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## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Yes that's the one...they look better in person. If you are looking for something that's going to "pop" maybe a group of orange P. terribilis. I think a bunch of orange frogs would look spectacular and would definitely stand out.
> You could utilize some cheaper large plants to keep costs down. Spathiphyllum and Aglanoema do great in vivs, are super cheap, and would serve to fill in large areas. You could have a few rarer/more expensive plants but wouldn't have to break the bank to do such a large build. Just some thoughts...



I agree those would look great.



deboardfam said:


> Straight up.. wicked detail (GRIMM action detail).... a small water feature/steam... and pound it full of leucs.


haha you would say "pound it full of leucs"


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I still like the ideas of leucs or P. Terribilis. I think the yellow would pop nicely in the tank. And both can be kept in nicely sized groups in a tank this large. 

It's a real shame about mixing species. I think the tank would look great with a trio of cobalts/giant oranges and some imis in there. But, I really doubt this would be feasible, and would be severely shunned in this relatively small tank, even though it is 150g.

Mark


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

The best and only thing to do with a 150 gallon would be...

a) Send to 80470, Pine, Colorado 

b) Send it to the nearest UPS/FedEX/USPS office near 80470, Pine, Colorado

c) PM me for other suggestions.


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## EntoCraig (May 17, 2011)

I would do Frogs and plants.

But in all seriousness this tank allows for some great scaping. Water feature wouldbe a must for me, as well as vinning plants.

Im new to frogs (not plants) so I dont have much to offer there, though I have seen some pretty awesome terribilis tanks.

Cant wait to see what you come up with! I have a 60 gallon aquarium that I am converting to frogs over the winter.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Variabilis. TONS of em. I'm not sure on the math on this one, but if a trio can be housed in a 15G, you could put THIRTY frogs in there!

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

What about something not many people are able to breed well. That sort of spaciousness along with good landscaping could be very beneficial for a female to select a male from territories within the 150 gals. I am sure females venture in and out of male territories in nature seeking the most suitable male in the process. I know satelite males will attempt to sneak in and fertilize clutches of a (dominate) pair. All these intricacies would be absolutely fascinating to observe, and may even be able to provide the clues needed to breed these "advanced level"(hard to breed) frogs. All that is required is a breeding group, time, pencil and paper, and the want to share.

Another option is Mantellas. They are quarrelsome, but I have heard not to the degree/extent of Darts. I could be mistaken about aggression, but not the need for more responsible breeders!

Please keep us updated on what you are doing with it. 

JBear


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## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

> Variabilis. TONS of em. I'm not sure on the math on this one, but if a trio can be housed in a 15G, you could put THIRTY frogs in there!


LOL I am not sure the math computes on that one.. I do keep a larger group in a smaller tank though. Love my variablis. Just heard calling last week from the tank. 

I wouldnt recommend such a small frog for such a large tank. I am still sticking with leucs or if you got the cash to shell out some terribs.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Gah, right, they're tougher to spot in such a large enclosure.... =/


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I would LOVE to have variabilis in there. I love them. I think it'd be half the fun to find them, but it really wouldn't be all that hard with a large group. 

But, then again, the size, boldness, and obvious colors are hard to resist on the teribilis. 

Mantellas are something I will have to look into a bit more. I've never really read into them. Are there any specific species you think I should look into? Or places to find reliable information on different species?

I love hearing all of your ideas!
Mark


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

If you are interested you can start your research here: Mantella Frogs

Mantella aurantiaca are probably the closest to the orange P. terribilis (looks-wise) and are beautiful frogs. (M. milotympanum look similar...though there is a greenish phase but I don't think its available in the trade). 
M. expectata are insanely beautiful (almost tinc-looking) but I have only seen them for sale once. 
M. laevigata would utilize more of the tank (from what I have read...no direct experience with them) but their coloration is more subdued. 
M. crocea would probably be the closest to yellow/gold terribilis, but I don't know how available they are. 

Good Luck with whatever you decide


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I personally think think that the coloration of _Mantella baroni_ and _Mantella madagascariensis_ really stick out. The green, orange, and black really contrast each other, and the first time I saw them the really popped out at me.

I think the golden mantella is also really stunning. If I understand correctly, they are always on the move and are extremely bold as well. And they do well in groups?

Video! =]


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Wow! I love those golden mantellas! Those are absolutely beautiful. Remind me more of a pumilio species rather than a terribilis, mainly because of the size. They're white tiny. The website you I was linked to is great, but doesn't really give you much information about captive carel that's something I will definitely look into further. Especially since they're apparently listed as critically endangered. I'd love to help out if I could.

Mark


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Here's a caresheet that I found that looks pretty helpful. 
Amphibian Care >> Golden Mantella Frog (Mantella aurantiaca) Care

Their care is very similar to most darts, but I think they like it a little on the cool side.

Do some searches on google, and I'm sure you'll find some useful stuff.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Hmm. After reading that, I'm having a little trouble with the temperature issue. I know they're only cooler than darts by a few degrees, but the females in the house like to have the windows open with the outdoor temperatures are somewhere around 75-80F. Especially in the spring. And the tank is directly infront of two west-facing windows (the rest of my frog tanks are in an individually air conditioned room, so I can control the temps completely). I'm worried that the tank temp will get too high for these guys to be happy. There's never been anything in the tank with lights, so I've never needed to monitor the tank temperature before, but I don't think it's worth the risk. Looks like I may just be sticking with darts  . 

As for the P. Terribilis, how big are these guys? I can understand the concept of the measurements, but in relation to the size of a fully grown Leuc or Vittatus, just how large are these guys? Those are the only frogs I currently have, so that's really all I can go by.

Mark


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## dendrothusiast (Sep 16, 2010)

that's a nice tank mark. 

why not have a look at this thread, kinda similar to your tank. I just wouldn't have a pond but maybe the waterfall pouring into some gravel like a pondless waterfall.

225 Gallon Office Setup


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Markw said:


> Hmm. After reading that, I'm having a little trouble with the temperature issue. I know they're only cooler than darts by a few degrees, but the females in the house like to have the windows open with the outdoor temperatures are somewhere around 75-80F. Especially in the spring. And the tank is directly infront of two west-facing windows (the rest of my frog tanks are in an individually air conditioned room, so I can control the temps completely).  I'm worried that the tank temp will get too high for these guys to be happy. There's never been anything in the tank with lights, so I've never needed to monitor the tank temperature before, but I don't think it's worth the risk. Looks like I may just be sticking with darts  .
> 
> As for the P. Terribilis, how big are these guys? I can understand the concept of the measurements, but in relation to the size of a fully grown Leuc or Vittatus, just how large are these guys? Those are the only frogs I currently have, so that's really all I can go by.
> 
> Mark


Sigh, the females of the house are always causing trouble...

Anywho, according to saurian.net P. vittatus is 1.25 inches to 1.5 inches, D. leucomelas is about 1.5 inches, and P. terribilis is 1.75 inches to 2.25 inches.

Saurian Enterprises, Inc :: Phyllobates vittatus
Saurian Enterprises, Inc :: Dendrobates leucomelas
Saurian Enterprises, Inc :: Phyllobates terribilis


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Hmmmm. Will the teribilis use the upper portions of the tank as well? It's a shame tincs don't. I'd love some reginas or cobalts in there. just throwing ideas around. But I think I'm between variabilis/teribilis/leucs. I'd really ike to have something that will use the bottom and upper portions, that can be kept in a sizable group in this tank. It's nothing too immediate. It'll take me a while to set the tank up, but I'd like to have the idea down incase I do decide to set it up. 

Mark


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Markw said:


> Hmmmm. Will the teribilis use the upper portions of the tank as well? It's a shame tincs don't. I'd love some reginas or cobalts in there. just throwing ideas around. But I think I'm between variabilis/teribilis/leucs. I'd really ike to have something that will use the bottom and upper portions, that can be kept in a sizable group in this tank. Mark


Terribilis will mostly only use the ground space as Tinctorius do. If an inhabitant that uses all portions of the Viv equally is your desire, Leucs are by far the best choice of the three you specified. I hope you keep us posted! Particularly when this massive viv is being built,  !

JBear


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

fieldnstream said:


> If you are interested you can start your research here: Mantella Frogs
> 
> Mantella aurantiaca are probably the closest to the orange P. terribilis (looks-wise) and are beautiful frogs. (M. milotympanum look similar...though there is a greenish phase but I don't think its available in the trade).
> M. expectata are insanely beautiful (almost tinc-looking) but I have only seen them for sale once.
> ...


Laevigata can actually be quite striking from what I have seen, especially if you pick plants specifically to accentuate the green & black. They would make for an awesome display. 

Unfortunately, most of the mantella species are considerably more difficult to get ahold of, especially CB.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

I like the idea of dividing the tank, but I also like the idea of having a continuous water feature. How about making your dividers out of glass for the upper portion and screen for the underground/underwater portion. Don't know exactly how it would be done, but it could be a great effect. You could even have branches, etc appear to pass through the glass.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

That's something that I have thought of, and I was actually drawing a sketch of it for you to see as I read this! You beat me to it! But I love the idea. I don't know if I could pull it off, though, without the part where it connects to the front of the tank looking like a complete disaster because of the glass + sealant. I think that's a marvelous idea.

Mark


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Markw said:


> Hmmmm. Will the teribilis use the upper portions of the tank as well? It's a shame tincs don't. I'd love some reginas or cobalts in there. just throwing ideas around. But I think I'm between variabilis/teribilis/leucs. I'd really ike to have something that will use the bottom and upper portions, that can be kept in a sizable group in this tank. It's nothing too immediate. It'll take me a while to set the tank up, but I'd like to have the idea down incase I do decide to set it up.
> 
> Mark


I was actually reading Lötters' the other day, and it said that some researchers actually found some tinc tads in a tree hole 30 meters above the floor with some tree frog tads!

I think if you plan the viv VERY well and make everything easily accessible, you could see them all over the place. I have 2 juvie azureus, and they TRY to climb... they're just bad at it. Horizontal/smooth surfaces are not very tinc friendly for climbing.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

You mean vertical smooth surfaces. 

But I was thinking about doing something a little different if I got tincs or any other species that stay ground-level. I was thinking about doing a fake background, but having it be doubled. And instead of being a background, it would actually be a level. Like there would be one level across the bottom, then another level would start in he mid-right side of the tank and travel to the top left of the tank. Aother level would start in the middle of at level and travel to the top right of the tank.that way, the entire tank area would be used up, effectively tripling the ground area and giving them full range of the entire tank. Does this even make sense? I'll try to get something drawn up for you.

Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Here's the best I could do with my iPad. 


Check Out My Drawing by Markwjr, on Flickr

Mark


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

First off, Id save your money and make sure to do it right. Bling it out and put a lot of thought and detail into it. For a project like this, "go big or go home" applies to the wallet also haha

As far as the 2 level idea....It could be cool, but maybe only in one of the corners or something, then for the rest of the tank make it multi tiered similar to a reef tank. 

An idea I always wanted to try out is to make a "cenote" type cave (google it). The corner would have a large overhang with growth on top, then it would have a sinkhole to allow a beam of light to hit the bottom level. In addition to the normal tank lighting, I would add a powerfull led pointed directly in the hole. Get an ultrasonic humidifier pumping into the bottom portion and you got yourself a wicked looking cenote cave complete with light beam. Giving the frogs a dark area of the tank will also make them even more bold, so it is a frog friendly idea also.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Hmm..with stalac/gtites and all? Those styrofoam cones would make some great looking underside growth if painted and sculpted correctly. I think that's a brilliant idea as well! Drawing, much more technical, coming up!

Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Hmm. Now that I'm really into this drawing, I'm finding it a bit difficult to know where to go. I also think I've already gone wrong with the concept. I put the growths on the underside of the overhang, instead of ontop. That's what the photos I found look like to me. I'm really loving the innovative ideas I'm getting here. Like I said, I'm in no rush. I'd really like to flesh this out as thoroughly as possible before I start anything at all with the tank.

I've attached what I've done so far. I'm not sure if I can see the whole picture to move further. I have everything saved as layers, so I can make edits to everything. I'd love more ideas, and more elaborate descriptions that I can work with. 

Mark


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Darn it! I always mix up horizontal/vertical, and I don't always catch it =/

So this is a more 3D version of your first drawing (as I've understood it)









The spray painted red parts are purely vertical, so tincs still would have a hard time with those areas; you've increased the total surface area, but the red area is still pretty inaccessible (to tincs anyway).


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Markw said:


> Hmm..with stalac/gtites and all? Those styrofoam cones would make some great looking underside growth if painted and sculpted correctly. I think that's a brilliant idea as well! Drawing, much more technical, coming up!
> 
> Mark


No I think with added stalagmites and stalactites it will look cheesey. Plus to get into that sort of detail you will most definitely need to do multiple practice sculptures to get it looking right. Im just suggesting a cave with a cenote entrance at the top. Plants on top, and possibly some vines hanging into the hole and off the edge. Its in my mind already, so maybe if im super bored at work sometime i'll do a quick sketch.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

If you do a cenote you should include a tiny statue of Chaac, the Mayan Rain God.....now that would be cheesy.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Ohhhh. I didn't realize the cenote was the hole, and nit the actual structures. Lol

Mark


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Markw said:


> That's something that I have thought of, and I was actually drawing a sketch of it for you to see as I read this! You beat me to it! But I love the idea. I don't know if I could pull it off, though, without the part where it connects to the front of the tank looking like a complete disaster because of the glass + sealant. I think that's a marvelous idea.
> 
> Mark


You wouldn't need to seal the front as long as it was close fitting. It doesn't need to be water tight. You could seal the top corner under the tank rim and the bottom corner under the ground level. You would still see the edge of the glass divider, but it wouldn't be ugly if you used thin glass.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

dendrothusiast said:


> that's a nice tank mark.
> 
> why not have a look at this thread, kinda similar to your tank. I just wouldn't have a pond but maybe the waterfall pouring into some gravel like a pondless waterfall.
> 
> 225 Gallon Office Setup


Wow. I must have missed your link the first time around. I really like this! Such a beautiful setup. It's unfortunate that my tank isn't more wide. I could definitely use about 6-10 more inches to make a great viv. I like the pond. I think it's very attractive. I would love to have one, but, like I said, I think the depth of the tank may be an issue with not having enough land space to do something like that, and still supply ample land roaming space. It's something I'll definitely have to work on. I've just got so many different ideas floating about, and no real vision of a final product. But I guess that's what this stage is all about, isnt it? 

Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I got the go-ahead from the better half to set up the tank if I want to. 

Mark


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I think you truly cannot proceed without knowing the species you are going to be adding. If you have decided this and I missed it, I apologize!

I would add as well that you could have the pond/pool along the front of the tank and the silicone(sealant) would only be visible when viewing from the sides. Even then, you could "frame" it! An advantage of having the pool in the front is servicability. I guess perhaps I allow a bit too much growth in my vivs, and that would complicate getting in and out without disturbing too much in the process(Or the ever present danger of an escapee...). So maybe my opinion is a bit biased.

JBear


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Yellow or red Trivs would be awesome since they're such a big frog, and swim well enough for a water feature to not be as much of a handicap.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

jbherpin said:


> I think you truly cannot proceed without knowing the species you are going to be adding. If you have decided this and I missed it, I apologize!
> JBear


Completely agree! I'm still a while away from having anything be put in stone yet.



tclipse said:


> Yellow or red Trivs would be awesome since they're such a big frog, and swim well enough for a water feature to not be as much of a handicap.


Hmm. I'll look into those. I'm having terrible trouble picking a species.

Mark


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