# 360° of drop-off tank



## Giga

A while ago I made a thread about a 748 gallon viv(http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/89345-748-gallon-wall-vivarium.html) that I never finished, mainly becuase it turned into a mangrove reef tank, (not done yet)


















Well I still want to build a large viv-I really like drop off tanks so I'm going to be starting a 360 gallon drop off tank. I've already started the stand so I'll take some picture in the next couple days and do a sketchup of the design and dimentions. It going to be themed as a costal forest edge-with a freshwater section(with waterfall) and saltwater section that will be tied into the same system(sump) as my reef. Also this will be a little slower build as I have a 4 month old and she dictated when I have free time. Pics to follow


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## epiphytes etc.

Sounds intense! I'll ride along.


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## mfsidore

epiphytes etc. said:


> Sounds intense! I'll ride along.


Me too! I call shotgun!!!!


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## dgibbons1

I like big builds...sounds like a great project looking forward to it!!!


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## Rseb1203

I'm interested! I don't take up a lot of room for the ride!


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## Giga

epiphytes etc. said:


> Sounds intense! I'll ride along.





mfsidore said:


> Me too! I call shotgun!!!!





dgibbons1 said:


> I like big builds...sounds like a great project looking forward to it!!!





Rseb1203 said:


> I'm interested! I don't take up a lot of room for the ride!


I think well all fit in my suv! But those in the back have to ride with the dog


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## Azurel

Sweet dropoff tanks are amazing...Can't wait to see what you come up with.


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## goof901

um... what exactly is a drop off tank? Is it where the front drops down? Haha sorry about the stupid question


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## Azurel

goof901 said:


> um... what exactly is a drop off tank? Is it where the front drops down? Haha sorry about the stupid question


Here was one of the first...Not stupid at all...

http://reefbuilders.com/2012/01/04/reef-dropoff-aquarium/


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## goof901

Azurel said:


> Here was one of the first...Not stupid at all...
> 
> The Drop-Off Reef Aquarium of Philippe Grosjean


Ok makes sense. Now that I think about it, somebody else here wanted to that at some point or another... Don't remember who though.


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## rigel10

Wow! This tank looks so minimal... Perfectly trendy: a unique decor!


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## jimmy rustles

goof901 said:


> Ok makes sense. Now that I think about it, somebody else here wanted to that at some point or another... Don't remember who though.


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/86476-ds-drop-off-vivarium.html


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## Giga

Here's a quick sketchup- The flat par dimentions are 38x40x36" and the tower part is 12x40x60"


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## jimmy rustles

loving it, only 2 drop offs could top it!


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## Giga

This is going to be a a cut out in the wall so it'll look like a drop off picture frame from the living room-as this is going in the finished garage.That make sense?


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## jimmy rustles

i guess i got what you're saying. ah would've been too cool, to have another smaller tank attached to one side. anyways, lookin forward to seeing this built.


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## Giga

need to get on this project as I had 5 stars now down to 4(someone dosn't like me lol)


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## rigel10

Five stars for me! Go on like this!


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## Giga

Got to some major workin's on this project!

Here's the finished part of the garage that is a mess right now as it's being converted into a frog room









Tore out the wall-most likely gonna have to tare out the studs and re-frame it like I need the reef tank

















Here the part of the wall in the living room that will house the drop off cut out









here's the reef tank-pardon all the stuff was working on some things!









also this will be power by LED's and a storm X so it will have a sunrise and sunset. The only problem I'm having is I have no IDEA what frog to put in here! As this is going to be a deep rainforest look now made for frogs. I'm thinking dendrobates auratus or some orange galacs or a bunch of thumbs! I have no idea- I'm just scared that if I put thumbs I won't see them- but there my fav!


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## Giga

here the general idea for this tank-it will be a twisted tree with rocks half on the flat part of the tank and half going down the drop off, a river going under it that will then go down the drop off and be a waterfall. I'll try and draw what I mean but in the mean time here's my inspiration(first pic is the best one!)
*


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## Medic1

Wow!!! I've always been a fan of that drop off reef. This will be extremely interesting to see develop! Looking forward to see what you do!


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## scoy

If you want some thumbs that are nice and bold go with imitators. I have several different types and all of them are always out and about. My favorites are my tarapoto, but just because they were my first.


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## Giga

Medic1 said:


> Wow!!! I've always been a fan of that drop off reef. This will be extremely interesting to see develop! Looking forward to see what you do!


Thank you!



scoy said:


> If you want some thumbs that are nice and bold go with imitators. I have several different types and all of them are always out and about. My favorites are my tarapoto, but just because they were my first.


I'm still racking my brain on what to put in this tank! I may put two in here one peacefull lager guys and some thumbnails-I know this is frowned upon,and may not do this, but with a just a huge drop there may be species that would never crawl up the drop off and the thumbs may never go all the way down since it's a 50" drop


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## rigel10

Giga said:


> here the general idea for this tank-it will be a twisted tree with rocks half on the flat part of the tank and half going down the drop off, a river going under it that will then go down the drop off and be a waterfall. I'll try and draw what I mean but in the mean time here's my inspiration(first pic is the best one!)
> *


Thanks for sharing this inspirational pics!


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## Giga

welcome, pics always help me with builds


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## frogparty

http://planethx.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/dsc079391.jpg

HX made the most insane mudskipper tank with a root design just like you want. If you havent seen it.... drool away sir
http://planethx.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/dsc08991.jpg


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## Giga

Yeah I have seen that tank,it is cool! I'm thinking ima do a PVC,foam tb3 for the trees as it way cheaper and will hold up in the long run. Plus I can get it to be covered in moss a lot sooner.


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## Giga

thing moving along i'll take some pics soon, but in the mean time I got some of this to silicone the glass together and whatever else I need it for this viv. RTV103 is probably the strongest silicone you can get for reef/viv's and is FDA approved for food contact so good stuff!


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## tzen

That is the right stuff, sir. 

What is your plan for access for the deep drop off portion?



Tyler


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## gturmindright

There is also SCS 1200 if you can find that.


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## Giga

tzen said:


> That is the right stuff, sir.
> 
> What is your plan for access for the deep drop off portion?
> 
> 
> 
> Tyler



I plan on adding a sliding door for the drop of part and one on the top part, so I'll need a bunch of different sizes of glass.



gturmindright said:


> There is also SCS 1200 if you can find that.


That is a good alternative, as I have used that too, but RTV is much stronger and is ez to work with.


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## Dendroguy

Awesome! Glad someone is getting around to it . I think a tank like this calls for some sylvatica.

D


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## Giga

I'd image those have a heavy $$


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## Dendroguy

Giga said:


> I'd image those have a heavy $$


You would be imagining correctly.

D


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## Giga

So l know people don't like this but I'm thinking about some aruatus Hawaiianor or blue footed luecs- in the bottom part and some banded imitator in the top-


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## epiphytes etc.

Why not go for another Peruvian frog for the bottom? I believe you mentioned an Ameerega before.


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## Sammie

epiphytes etc. said:


> Why not go for another Peruvian frog for the bottom? I believe you mentioned an Ameerega before.


That would be cool. 
And while we're at it, leucomelas and French Guiana amazonica would be pretty sweet to.


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## Giga

epiphytes etc. said:


> Why not go for another Peruvian frog for the bottom? I believe you mentioned an Ameerega before.





Sammie said:


> That would be cool.
> And while we're at it, leucomelas and French Guiana amazonica would be pretty sweet to.


I don't know the temperament of Ameeregra, so I would want something that would be ok with imitators


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## easternversant

You could do something like Chazuta or banded imitators with hahneli, cainarachi, or altamazonica. Any of those would probably be pretty cool and are syntopic with imitator.


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## Dendroguy

Would you be planning on separating the top and bottom with a screen or bio topic mixed tank?

D


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## Giga

Dendroguy said:


> Would you be planning on separating the top and bottom with a screen or bio topic mixed tank?
> 
> D


No there will be the tree which will kinda divide it but both section will be one



Sammie said:


> That would be cool.
> And while we're at it, leucomelas and French Guiana amazonica would be pretty sweet to.


I like this! I'm thinking banded luecs and either banded or the amazonica, though there hard to find and more $ but worth it.


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## Reptileman

I love drop off tanks, I hope this one gets seen all the way to the end.


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## Giga

Reptileman said:


> I love drop off tanks, I hope this one gets seen all the way to the end.


Oh nothing stopping me short of the end of the world! I saw auratas Hawaiian for the first time and I'm in love! Unless I can get blue footed luecs I'm mostly likly going with them. And from what I understand they are should be ok with the imitators.


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## Giga

Wall framed and stand started


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## eos

**Subscribed**


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## Giga

eos said:


> **Subscribed**


 thanks!


I'm really racking my brain, on what to put in this tank! I'm even thinking a pair of Bastimentos in here but not sure if anything else would be ok with them. or going with a pair of luecs,amazonica,auratas so six frogs for a 151 gallon tank(changed the dimention a bit to fit the wall)


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## frogparty

With a tank with that much potential.... Do a Baja Huallaga tank!! 
Baja Huallaga trivs and Baja Huallaga imitators!


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## Giga

frogparty said:


> With a tank with that much potential.... Do a Baja Huallaga tank!!
> Baja Huallaga trivs and Baja Huallaga imitators!


I see bajo trivs but no baja?


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## frogparty

Ok, bajo Huallaga


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## Giga

Well I guess I'll cross the bridge when I get to it, Almost done with the stand,glass soon to come!


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## daggekko

Nice build. Subscribing. I've seen that reef drop off tank. Was drooling over it too! Can't wait to see what you do here!


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## frogparty

You could do leucomelas and Venezuelan Gonatodes geckos


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## FroggyKnight

frogparty said:


> You could do leucomelas and Venezuelan Gonatodes geckos


That would be an awesome tank


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## Giga

That would be pretty cool as I haven't even thought of something other then frogs. I have a soft spot for thumbnails, can different thumbnail be kept together or is there a chance of hybrids with them?


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## frogparty

Chance of hybridization, plus a chance of both species using the same niche and competing for resources/ breeding sites etc


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## Giga

frogparty said:


> Chance of hybridization, plus a chance of both species using the same niche and competing for resources/ breeding sites etc


Thats what I thought-I'm thinking I might have to play this by ear as I wondering if one will stay down in the drop off section and the other in the canopy and other on the land section


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## epiphytes etc.

You could do quinquevittatus and iquitos "vents", and it would be biotopically correct. The quinqs would mostly hang in leaf litter and the iquitos in the broms. You could even add hahneli to the mix.


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## frogparty

Trivitatta will stay terrestrial, while imitator would spend much more time arboreally


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## Giga

epiphytes etc. said:


> You could do quinquevittatus and iquitos "vents", and it would be biotopically correct. The quinqs would mostly hang in leaf litter and the iquitos in the broms. You could even add hahneli to the mix.


The quinquevittats is really nice but I've never seen them for sale, and I like the vents, this seems like a good options so far.


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## epiphytes etc.

Quinqs are around. I'm sure if you put up a want ad, you'll find them.


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## Giga

So i've been doing a lot of research and it seems the auratus and pumilio both live in the same region of alot of area like costa rica and panama so I think with a pair of each will be more then enough for this tank for them to keep out of each other hair and this way I get the best of both world. The main reason i'm racking my brain about this is I want to build the viv to suit there needs. This is all i'm going with for now but if I feel the tank can handle something else I will add a pair of imi's or something from the same region, but thats way down the road


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## Giga

Looks like I'm not the first person to think of this


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## rabu92

The size difference always surprises me. Pumilio are tiny!


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## Giga

i know shocks me every time-thats what makes them so cool!


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## Giga

So I've been pricing things out and the amount of ghost wood i'll need is around 200$ worth but if I make a tree out of pvc and cover it with greatstuff/TB3/peat it's about 60$. Plus I can hide fans in the pvc for internal circulation. I use a lot of PVC for my reef tanks so I'm assuming it's safe*(TM)* (Anybody see what I did there?)can anyone concur on this?


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## frogparty

A lot of people use the PVC method with no problems.

I personally hate dealing with great stuff and sealants and coco fiber etc for backgrounds. If you want to, I'm sure it will look great


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## Giga

frogparty said:


> A lot of people use the PVC method with no problems.
> 
> I personally hate dealing with great stuff and sealants and coco fiber etc for backgrounds. If you want to, I'm sure it will look great


i dont mind it but what do you do?


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## frogparty

All my backgrounds are now hygrolon/ filter pad. Quick, light, very effective
I use ghost wood or cork bark for hard scape. Never liked using more chemicals than I need to


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## Giga

frogparty said:


> All my backgrounds are now hygrolon/ filter pad. Quick, light, very effective
> I use ghost wood or cork bark for hard scape. Never liked using more chemicals than I need to


yeah thats kinda how I feel-may bite the bullet and do something like that


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## frogparty

If you went through Maryland cork you could get some really nice tubes and do a whole tree/ root scape for not too much $$$. Would be quick, light and minimize the need for synthetic adhesives etc.


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## Giga

I'll do that and see what cheaper cork on ghost wood


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## goof901

In costa rica. The auratus and blue jeans live together. I think that could definitely work if the tank was designed well. I'll post the pics I took in CR later.


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## Giga

finish most of the electrical and the stand-might paint it. I'm ready for glass minus a couple things to tie up with the stand


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## Giga

frogparty said:


> If you went through Maryland cork you could get some really nice tubes and do a whole tree/ root scape for not too much $$$. Would be quick, light and minimize the need for synthetic adhesives etc.



i just called them and they were like

them-"H-hello"

me-"is this maryland cork"

them-"oh-yes it is but were closed til Jan. 6th"

me-"ok"

them-"click"

guess there a mom n pop kind of place guess i'm calling back later lol


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## daggekko

I spoke with maryland cork a while back (years). All I remember is the amount of cork I would have had to buy was a lot! Id like to know what they say amd pricing too!


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## Giga

Been putting a plant list, so far here's the orchids

Epibator (Zootrophion) serpentinus
Pleurothallis tribuloides
masdevllia nidifica
Restrepia trichoglossa 
Pleurothallis grobyi-
Bulb. lasiochilum
Den. Laevifolium
Bulbo alagense 'Small Form'
Bulbophyllum MINUTULUM
Masdevallia bangii
Trisetella cordeliae
Lepanthes calodictyon
Lep. Telipogoniflora
Haraella retrocalla
Haraella odorata
Barbosella orbicularis
Pleurothallis resupinata


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## Giga

Just bought almost all the glass for this! will start to silicone the glass this week or this weekend, as well as pics!


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## frogparty

Haraella odorata and retrocalla are the same plant by the way.....


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## Giga

lol well then scratch one


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## Giga

making progress-It's hard to tell as thing are a mess right now, but most the glass in on there-the rest will be done this weekend!


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## The Wolfe

It's nice to see the glass in place! Cant wait to see how it turns out!


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## Giga

The Wolfe said:


> It's nice to see the glass in place! Cant wait to see how it turns out!


I got more done just havn't taken pics yet, will tomorrow since everything's closed due to the snow storm


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## Giga

*
Almost all the glass is on there(ran out of RTV103). All that's left is the top and the doors(oh and a brace were the drop off begins). Then cleaning up the silicone and on to the scaping!

*
Started putting in shelf's for the bug cultures-I just threw this up, need better brackets but should be pretty good for all the bug cultures.

*
drilled a hole in the bottom of both parts for a bulkhead drain

*
top part-I didn't have the right wood whole saw lol

*
the only mishap-but a little clear silicone and were all good


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## shibbyplustax

Im so happy someone is going through with this idea. Looks like a great start. Subd.


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## Dendro Dave

Interesting... I look forward to seeing how it comes out.


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## eyeviper

Fantastic looking tank. You're representing the 757 very well sir  , I Look forward to seeing what you come up with.


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## Giga




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## Giga

Was drifting through the pet store and saw this and thought it would be perfect for tads since I'm limited on horizontal space


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## Amphinityfrogs

I can't wait to see this thing finished and planted. Its looking great so far.


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## Giga

Amphinityfrogs said:


> I can't wait to see this thing finished and planted. Its looking great so far.


Thank you!


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## Giga

Got a gaggle of cork tubes-some of those are 32" long




Also started staining some wood(needs another coat)-this is going inside of the cutout to help frame the tank and give it a darker feel. Please excuse my garage, it's a disaster with all these builds right now.


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## Giga

Finished the wall on the living room side



Also picked up a large fireball that will be the majority of the broms in this tank-with my lighting they will turn a crazy red


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## Dragonfish

Wow! I love how this is coming together.


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## corey.chadwick.14

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this comes out!!


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## Giga

yeah this is turning out to be pretty cool! Still can't decide what to go in there though LOL


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## kitcolebay

It's starting to look pretty sharp! Nicely done! 

-Chris


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## Giga

kitcolebay said:


> It's starting to look pretty sharp! Nicely done!
> 
> -Chris


Thanks!

I see you have Hawaiians on your site-where are they from?


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## kitcolebay

Giga said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I see you have Hawaiians on your site-where are they from?


They are from a local frogger, Brian R (BR5). He got his from Daryl Szyska.

-Chris


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## Giga

Are they smaller then the other auratus? It's what I'm looking to put in here as one of the frog species. Also got a little work done today-Still a mess and pardon the cell phone pics(camera was dead)-I turned off the lights to try and gett a better shot-ALso it's hard to tell but it's 48" tall and 48" wide


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## vivlover10

Have you ever thought about doing a water fall from the top tier to the bottom tier?

Very nice! I like how the cork looks like tree limbs.


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## Giga

vivlover10 said:


> Have you ever thought about doing a water fall from the top tier to the bottom tier?
> 
> Very nice! I like how the cork looks like tree limbs.


Yes that was the original plan, but it kinda a hassle to do so I haven't decided if I want to do that yet. Still need to do the cork tubes for the drop off side


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## Giga

have done a fair bit but havn't taken pics yet, but in the mean time, I think my iso cultures are doing well-These started off as just regular purple but seem to be all colors now

cell phone shot for 15 mins ago


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## Giga

The top part is pretty much done-still need to add the doors and paint the rest of the outside black
*

A little closer








*
*
*
The drop off part needs more work as I haven't got to it yet-sorry for the bad pic

*
I have a rock that overhangs the drop off-again bad pic
*








*
*
Here's the circulation part-I have 2 60mm fans in the center "tree" that pulls air from the bottom and is pointed at the glass to help keep it clear. I also have the wire running through airline tubeing and drilled a 1/4 hole in the glass






*
All close up and ez access in case a fan breaks down. Granted a lot of this still needs to be foamed and covered but still ez to get at from the back


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## Azurel

The wood on the top is awesome....Excellent job.


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## rabu92

Looks fantastic! Very nice job on the cork tube trees. Love it.


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## rigel10

Great job! Do you have filled cork tubes with GS?


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## Giga

Thank you! and yes I filled all the cork tubes with GS so the frogs don't hide so much.


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## chillplants

This is looking impressive. Can't wait to see more.


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## Giga

I just got 36 ft of door slides for 1/8 glass lol from outwater, almost there!


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## The Wolfe

This tank blows my mind! Every time you post something it gets me super excited to see how it's going to turn out! and the outcomes are always unreal!
KEEP IT UP!!

The Wolfe


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## Giga

I just installed the sliding track, finished the drop off side, and did some plumbing. All that's left is the mistking and lighting. Planting soon!


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## The Wolfe

Thats great! I cant wait to see! What are your plans for planting?

The Wolfe


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## Giga

The Wolfe said:


> Thats great! I cant wait to see! What are your plans for planting?
> 
> The Wolfe


Mainly small orchid and broms. I'm gonna not plant anything in the substrate and keep it all for leaf litter n such


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## The Wolfe

That Sounds like it will look great!


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## Jeremy M

Dude, that is some killer cork tube work... and the variations on those isos are amazing. Keep us posted! This thing's destined to be amazing.


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## Giga

I should have some updates this weekend, as I finished most of the design


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## Giga

so planting will begin in the next day or two as Everything is done minus a couple minor things(like doors painted n such) I also just ordered my leds. All thats left is a fogger and mistking, but I can do that by hand till then.I also didn't feel like spending money on substrate so I made my own with what I had on hand

All I had was a little spiral compact light so that's why the picture are dark and kinda not good 



Way to dark but kinda cool FTS


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## moore40

I'm liking the way it's coming together!


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## Giga

moore40 said:


> I'm liking the way it's coming together!


Thank you!


on another note I need to paint the back of the tank black. I tried a water based paint just to be safe but it dosn't stick to glass well and will not stick to the silicone seams on the outside of the tank. Would a oil based paint be ok to use?


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## jaybugg13

I used a window film on my tank partly because I wanted a frosted look and partly because it was less permanent and effort. Most aquarium stores will have a black background sheet. If you really wanted to go with paint I would checkout Krylon.


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## Giga

jaybugg13 said:


> I used a window film on my tank partly because I wanted a frosted look and partly because it was less permanent and effort. Most aquarium stores will have a black background sheet. If you really wanted to go with paint I would checkout Krylon.


Didn't think of that, ima head to Home Depot on my way home tonight


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## Giga

Quick phone shot out the door this morning-it's getting there


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## Sammie

I'm officially jealous, this turned out great!


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## shawq0x01

It looks great now…but when the plants have had time to mature…oh man!


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## Giga

Once I plant the orchids I'll take some pics with a dlsr


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## eos

Sammie said:


> I'm officially jealous, this turned out great!


Indeed! Incredible work.


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## rigel10

What about frogs?


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## Giga

rigel10 said:


> What about frogs?


Thanks guys! And for frogs I'm still up in arms as I like so many! But most likely auratus and pumilio


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## xTimx

you've inspired me to make a drop off tank myself only it'll be a 180* Paludarium.


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## Giga

xTimx said:


> you've inspired me to make a drop off tank myself only it'll be a 180* Paludarium.


That will be sweet!


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## abroniakeeper

Giga said:


> A while ago I made a thread about a 748 gallon viv(http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/89345-748-gallon-wall-vivarium.html) that I never finished, mainly becuase it turned into a mangrove reef tank, (not done yet)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I still want to build a large viv-I really like drop off tanks so I'm going to be starting a 360 gallon drop off tank. I've already started the stand so I'll take some picture in the next couple days and do a sketchup of the design and dimentions. It going to be themed as a costal forest edge-with a freshwater section(with waterfall) and saltwater section that will be tied into the same system(sump) as my reef. Also this will be a little slower build as I have a 4 month old and she dictated when I have free time. Pics to follow


where did you find those mangroves is that a salt water tank? looks great love the look of it. What size is that one pictured with mangrove


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## Giga

Here's the tank now, and yeah it's saltwater. what size of what, the tank?


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## rigel10

Man, this your mangrove tank is crazy! Do you have fishes, shrimps or crabs inside?


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## Giga

More can be seen here

Mangrove Forest-Just Won DIY Bulkreefsupply! - Members Aquariums - Nano-Reef.com Forums


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## rigel10

I'm looking at pictures of your thread! Stunning!


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## spawn

I've probably said it before but it would be a crime against vivarium-building NOT to get mudskippers. They _will_ use all the space and can climb better than dart frogs. They also come from mangroves and enjoy that brackish water.

*Edit: with reference to the mangrove tank! But this thread is pretty sweet too, if you decided to add substantial water.


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## slipperheads

I need to see this in person. Very cool.


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## Giga

I just ordered my mistking and finished my fogger! Oh and I order leaf litter so frogs soon once the micro fauna gets established


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## Giga

so now that i've mastered iso cultures i'm gonna move onto springtails and fruit flies


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## Giga

Mistking and led's come in on thursday but till then....


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## Giga

Got a bunch of stuff done pics soon!


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## ExoticRepublic

How soon? Not to be pushy, but I LOVE this build, and can't wait to see more of it!


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## Giga

New page=new pics, the weird resalution on this page


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## Giga

Ok so this is almost ready for frogs as first round of planting is done. Mostly orchids,fireball brom and rabbit foots fern for now.
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Bulbophyllum lilacinum I think I can't remember  (nice and blurry shot too)

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pleurothallis grobyi-it has about 10 leaves just can't see them because of how awesome my photography is

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restrepia lansbergii

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I can't remember this one of the top of my head

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dockrillia rigida/air plant/brom combo

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A hybrid that I forget it's name right now

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Dryadella simula

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forgot to picture these two
Pleurothallis alvaroi red
isabelia virginalis
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now some of the equipment pics
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mistking

Fogger

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getting my iso and spring tails cultures in order-still need a few more n such

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Also bought a AC unit since this room is a finished part of the garage it can get up to 83 ish on really hot days. It has a has a central air vent to it but the temps can go funky in this room. RIght now I keep the room at 74

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Here's the simple but powerfull led light I built


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## Giga

Some random shot now
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from the bottom of the drop off








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top








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These last two ful shot you can see the Pleurothallis alvaroi red-its the large teardop leaves at the edge there
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http://s139.photobucket.com/user/Veritas21885/media/DSC01961_zpsd5dec65c.jpg.html]







[/URL]
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Still a few more things to do, but frogs sooooooon! Also soory the pics are bad Since my dlsr broke my P&S is poopy


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## ExoticRepublic

The suspense is killing me! I must know what type of frog your putting in! Just list 3 different frogs, one of which is the actual frog you will be using. I'm assuming your going with a pum though?


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## rigel10

Great job! The fourth orchid looks to me Epidendrum porpax.


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## Pubfiction

your vivarium is large I would caution against O. pumilio and D. auratus though. Pumilio can be very aggressive and auratus are often shy. The combination of these in a very large vivarium means it will be very difficult to tell if the pumilio are killing your auratus. The auratus could be happily hanging out in the leaf litter back where you cannot see them or they could be hiding in dreadful fear. 

If you are going to do it I suggest shooting for the boldest auratus morph which is probably El cope. 

Theoretically this works but I don't know I have seen a guy who tried the same thing and I asked for updates and never heard of any and I suspect he may have lost his auratus. 

If you are looking for another combination of frogs that come from the same place you could try R. ventrimaculata and D. tinctorius from French Guiana. I think A. galactonocus is from that range too.


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## Giga

Pubfiction said:


> your vivarium is large I would caution against O. pumilio and D. auratus though. Pumilio can be very aggressive and auratus are often shy. The combination of these in a very large vivarium means it will be very difficult to tell if the pumilio are killing your auratus. The auratus could be happily hanging out in the leaf litter back where you cannot see them or they could be hiding in dreadful fear.
> 
> If you are going to do it I suggest shooting for the boldest auratus morph which is probably El cope.
> 
> Theoretically this works but I don't know I have seen a guy who tried the same thing and I asked for updates and never heard of any and I suspect he may have lost his auratus.
> 
> If you are looking for another combination of frogs that come from the same place you could try R. ventrimaculata and D. tinctorius from French Guiana. I think A. galactonocus is from that range too.



Aren't d tinc aggressive? I love vents but wouldn't tinc bully them too? Same with galacs?


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## Pubfiction

The big main point here is D. tinctorius can be aggressive as well, but I do not think they are as aggressive as pumilio. There are accounts of pumilio going beyond stressing a frog out and possible strait up murdering other frogs and even other non frogs. There are some more subtle issues as well.

I tend to think of their D. tinctorius aggression as a little different. I think they like to stare at other frogs. I am not sure the other frogs will even understand it as aggression in distant species. I also think they would be way too lazy to chase R. ventrimaculata up into the canopy. Basically you are putting gravity on your side, pumilio just has to come down and beat on auratus, tinctorius has to climb up to catch ventrimaculata. Of course I am making the silly assumption that aggression could not go the other way, it certainly could.

D. tinctorius will often just chill out wide out in the open so they will be easier for you to find and if they are chasing down ventrimaculata you should be able to see it easier. That is the main advantage here. I also know I have seen many mixed species tanks that contain D. tinctorius with many combinations of other frogs. I don't see many pumilio mixed tanks they tend to come up when someone is noticing dead animals. Now maybe that's in part because pumilio are typically more expensive and tend to be reserved for savvy enthusiasts. But what ever is going on some people seem to be pulling it off with tinctorius.

As for A. galactonotus I may have made a brain fart on these I thought one color was from French Guiana but I may be wrong on that. If they are the best case scenario is they are a choice against tinctorius and I am pretty sure they overlap the ventrimaculata range in many places. So you could do ventrimaculata and galactonotus or tinctorius and galactonotus. If you wanted to try to have all 3 that would get more tricky as they both occupy the forest floor and you would want to limit numbers of frogs to play it safer. On a random note I actually know directly of a mixed tank with D. auratus and A. galactonotus. Seems they are all alive but I see the auratus chasing the galactonotus often however there is only 1 auratus in there, maybe it wants to mate? 


Assumptions: let me know if any are wrong. 

You wanted to mix as responsibly as you could by keeping species sort of from the same area. Although your auratus may be very distant from your pumilio which would be true of El cope and Squirres which will likely be more distant geographically than any 2 French Guiana morphs. 

You want frogs that are not capable or likely to hybridize. 

You didn't have any real particular love for any specific frog. So you would consider any biotype. There are other possibilities as well but for color and cheaper frogs French Guiana is the best I can think of off the top of my head. 

If you consider how distant your auratus might be from your pumilio you could also entertain various different morphs of tinctorius.


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## Giga

Do you have links to the mixes tinc tank? And what were the tinks mixed with?


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## xTimx

My Q is...what kind of ventilation did you do with the tank?

EDIT; nvm i found it lol


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## Pubfiction

I don't have any good specific links offhand but many zoos mix Dendrobates tinctorius with any of the other similar sized Dendrobates and well as Phyllobates terribilis. And I have seen at least one person come here selling mixed hybrids I think between leucomelas and tinctorius.

Its hard to find information on the topic because many people do not like it so those that do mix tend to avoid posting and discussing it. 

That said because they don't discuss it we have very little in the way of anecdotes on how often these people loose frogs. In the link above the guy seems to have an outrageously crowded vivarium on top of the hybrids. A pet store near me keeps several mixed tanks, and even has displays set up in a nearby theater that are mixed. I know one person claims they keep losing frogs at the theater, hard to tell if its aggression or just the reality of trying to service a vivarium off site or if they are selling the frogs and moving them around.


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## Giga

Hmmmmmm so hard just to chose one. I might just go with iquitos vents, though with a tank this big I may never see them even with like 8 of them, and feeding might be harder


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## epiphytes etc.

If you start with 8 Iquitos, before long you'll have 30 and you wont have any problem seeing them. And like I said before, they share their range with both Adelphobates quinquevittatus and Ameerega hahnelii, both of which are just as good in groups.


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## ExoticRepublic

Well just to let you know, vents take 3 months to morph out, most other Ranitomeya only take 2 months.


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## epiphytes etc.

They frequently take 6 months. I had one take 11


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## Giga

I know auratus are not in the same range but they may be good with vents as there pretty docile. I'm either gonna do vents and auratus or vents and quinquevittatus


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## scoy

if your set on two frogs from the same area why not chazuta imis and chazuta ameerga ( the new yellow from ue)?


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## Giga

I'm not totally set but as I only can have one display tank I really love auratus and thumbnails so I'm very torn.


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## rigel10

Then put in the frogs you like!


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## Giga

I'm really mastering bug cultures as I have 8 cultures of porcellio scaber of about 100-150 in each culture and the variety this guys is pretty cool. They start out stark white as babies then get steel blue,orange,black,grey or a mix like this guy

sorry blurry cell phone shot-couldn't get him to hold still


I also have now 4 cultures each of temperate and tropical springs that are going crazy


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## Giga

planted a begonia 'rex' in the back right to give a good place for the frog to hide if need be



and then this





A lfs of mine that sells darts was having a massive sale. So i traded a couple cultures and only ended up pay 30$ for 2 chocolate leucomelas


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## Giga

Just got an order from bromiladsnsuch. Wo t get from there again, lack of communication on shipment, broms arrived bone dry and slightly wilted but not to bad, and they sent the wrong broms. I'll take some pics tomorrow


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## rigel10

When it happened to me (another seller of course, no shipment of plants and frogs from USA), I leave for a day the neos in a bucket of water and they came back fine.


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## Giga

little update

most the fireballs are getting nice and red


and putting out a gaggle out roots


new brom #1 was supposed to be chiquita linda but bromiliadsnsuch isn't the best-won't be ordering from them again-nice but not what I ordered


Java plum brom #2


Neoregelia 'Dungsiana' I think even though it was labeled wrong by them, can also see Masdevallia erinacea that is in bloom. Sorry my camera blows


Sinningia muscicola


moved the dockrillia rigida to the front top of the tank under the mini cattleya orchid


I'm most excited about this, Lepanthes calodyction, let hope I can keep it alive


the flowers are sooooo small on this guy about 2 mm


also planted two Biophytum sensitivum in the bottom part of the drop off


Also have a Pleurothallis microphylla that forgot a pic of, and I heard calling from one of the luecs so who know might have eggs soon!


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## Steelen

Your tank is the reason why I want to get into this hobby. Love the colors and depth of this tank. 

Next to starting a salt water tank, I want to set a viv first. I think it will bring amazing colors to my fiancees and my house when we get our place end of this year.


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## Giga

Steelen said:


> Your tank is the reason why I want to get into this hobby. Love the colors and depth of this tank.
> 
> Next to starting a salt water tank, I want to set a viv first. I think it will bring amazing colors to my fiancees and my house when we get our place end of this year.


I actually got out of saltwater to get into this hobby-saltwater is nice too but It a lot more work.


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## ChrisAZ

Great set up! I'd be very interested in hearing more about your lighting system.


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## pet-teez

This is looking amazing! Very nice!


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## atticus22

Very inspirational, great work!


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## Giga

ChrisAZ said:


> Great set up! I'd be very interested in hearing more about your lighting system.


I plan on doing an update soon for both tanks so i'll cover the lighting more for you.



pet-teez said:


> This is looking amazing! Very nice!





atticus22 said:


> Very inspirational, great work!


Thanks, I plan on adding some vines soon so that should make it even cooler-I hope.


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## Giga

I see you! this is the male hanging at the edge of the drop off as he does


This guy im unsure if he's male/female as I havnt heard or seen him/her call. But I always find this one in the bottom part of the drop off then shoots back up top.


starting to look good me tinks! (Sorry for the glare and my awesome camera skillz)


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## Medic1

That's so freaking sweet. Props!!


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## Giga

thanks! wish I had a better camera to show how cool it really is


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## eos

Dude, that's freaking amazing. Have you had any visitors say that they feel like they're at a zoo exhibit, etc?


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## Azurel

Bad ass! Period......


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## Frogtofall

This comment is grossly inappropriate but I don't care...

This viv is pure SEX. Love it!


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## Giga

New leaf 


new bloom


added a luv shack-as I think they are a pair as the male calls all day long and have yet to see or hear the other call. Havn't seen eggs yet but it's a big viv so who knows


I really suck at these shots


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## diggenem

This tank looks great! So many different dimensions to it! Which part of it is your favorite?


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## Giga

diggenem said:


> This tank looks great! So many different dimensions to it! Which part of it is your favorite?


It's hard to say! I love the overgrown look to it and the dropoff is a cool aspect as the female luecs is down there all the time now. I need to add a few more plants in the drop off part and maybe a led spot light to get a little more light down there and maybe a large leaf plant or something.


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## Giga

pics
















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fungus or something
















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Micro orchid about to bloom








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random








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frogs
















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lone mushrrom
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[/URL]


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## Mildster

Truly a unique and cool design!


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## a hill

Filling in beautifully.

I'm sure it's mentioned in previous posts in the journal, but where is the access points apart from the top? Is here a door on the left?

-Andrew


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Giga

a hill said:


> Filling in beautifully.
> 
> I'm sure it's mentioned in previous posts in the journal, but where is the access points apart from the top? Is here a door on the left?
> 
> -Andrew
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'll take a picture from the back as there are two sliding doors on each section. On another note I gonna be pulling all the orchids from this tank as I found my iso's eating two of them this morning


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## FroggyKnight

Giga said:


> I'll take a picture from the back as there are two sliding doors on each section. On another note I gonna be pulling all the orchids from this tank as I found my iso's eating two of them this morning


NOOO!!! They can't eat those beautiful plants 

John


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## epiphytes etc.

I would try feeding the isos more before pulling the orchids. In my experience, they won't munch live plants if they are well fed.


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## FroggyKnight

Toss in some Morning Wood! Or just some veggies... I think they will like morning wood better though

John


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## Giga

I forgot to take a picture of the back but here this in the meantime


orchids blooming 




so small-about a millimeter or 2


Added a birds nest fern


I've been cultivating some low growing tropical moss-here what I did with it, I covered a small universal rock


Added a pleurothallis microphylla-very very small orchid


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## FroggyKnight

Haha, I love the P. microphylla! You have to appreciate the little things in life

What species is the Restrepia? 

John


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## ChrisAZ

I've been cultivating some low growing tropical moss-here what I did with it, I covered a small universal rock



Would you be willing to share where you got the moss or spores and a little more detail about how your cultivating it?


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## Giga

Sure, I'll post and explain tomorrow


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## Barry Thomas

It looks absolutely incredible. Great job!


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## Giga

Barry Thomas said:


> It looks absolutely incredible. Great job!


Thanks! I added some vines too ill try and get a fts but I can't seem to get a good one for some reason.


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## Athena

Heeeey... is there any possibility of an update? Maybe? Pretty please?

Great build!


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## Y0urbestfriend

Athena said:


> Heeeey... is there any possibility of an update? Maybe? Pretty please?
> 
> Great build!


Yes, its been a couple of months so an update of this amazing tank would be very nice xD


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## Xylem

I'd like to see an update too. Just saw this thread tonight....

Man, you do things I can only DREAM of doing. Being a broke college student sucks sometimes


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## Giga

Sure I'll do an update in the next day or so


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## TJ_Burton

Giga said:


> Sure I'll do an update in the next day or so


I think you are late, good sir.


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## DragonSpirit1185

Giga said:


> Sure I'll do an update in the next day or so


haha it's been well over a day or so


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## LadyMac

Just... wow! This is amazing!


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## Bobo040

Love this build. Come back!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Giga

tank is still going strong! I'll take some pictures soon


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## Giga

I finely took some pics lol


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## rigel10

Very nice! Also this auratus are great! Compliments


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## DragonSpirit1185

Saw your ad. Why are you breaking it down


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## Giga

taking a break for now - life's busy and need a break for right now


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