# Possile drowning?



## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

I just discovered one of my el dorados dead face first in a brom cup. This was a 1.2 trio. It was apparently dead for at least a few days. Unfortunately it had no color so i cant tell which it was. I had noticed the two females wrestling a bit lately. My question is, is it possible that one of the females drowned the other in the cup? The male did have a slight gimp but i have seen all 3 easily moving in and out of the broms and all over the wood no problem so i dont think the frog had trouble getting out on its own. The body wasnt caught or anything either. Its just weird. I know sick frogs usually hang out in water but there are 2 monkey pods filled with water in the tank so why face first in a brom cup? I found a tad in one of the axils of the brom that had recently been fed so im hoping the male is still alive, i havent been able to find the other 2 but i cant ever find them in the first place. If anyone has any insight its appreciated. Thanks


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I have seen El Dorado females chasing other frogs in the tank and I have read stories, here, about pumilio being psycho frog drowners. I'll see if I can find any of the threads.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok here's one 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...2-what-could-cause-frogs-die-off-one-one.html


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Well it turns out it was the male that died. So its looking like it wasnt a forced drowning at least. My question now is, with the male gone what are the chances of the tads currently in the tank being fed? These were my first pums to start breeding activity so i dont really know if the male is needed in that process. 

This is officially my first dead frog . I knee it would happen eventually as it comes with the hobby but its still a huge loss to me.

Now that we can rule out forced drowning what is my next step? Do i pull the females and tear down the tank or just leave them be? Im doubting it was disease or parasite related but i could be totally wrong. I think it may have been an accidental drowning considering the frog had a slight gimp and it was way down in the brom cup face first. Any help is appreciated.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't know that drowning can be ruled in or out. IMO, leave the tank alone for now. If there are tads, the female should still feed them.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks. I will let them do their thing.


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## hamz77 (Mar 17, 2013)

This happened to me last night. I just got a proven 1.1 of spotted El dorados and woke up to see the male face first in the brom.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh no! I wouldn't expect a 1.1 pair to drown each other but who knows.


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## hamz77 (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm super pissed but I think it was an accident.


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## Halter (Jul 28, 2012)

Im so sorry that is terrible!
I know that when females show signs of aggression they typically like to pin the other female down. 
Do you guys think it is possible for a female to literally hold the other female down and drown her in the brom?


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Are you sure it was a 1.1? Did you QT and watch their behavior? Males can call back and forth to each other, or can be a silent male in the group, any weight loss on the one in the brom, ie stress etc? Sometimes sick frogs will seek water, I have not had any "drownings" in my collection, so doubt the drowning theory unless a sick frog or dominance issues, esp with pums. Just my .02.


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## AzureusRBoss (Sep 3, 2013)

Weird that's an unusual way for a frog to die.


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## aurvrrat (Jul 23, 2011)

Have any others working with pumilos experienced a possible drowning when only kept in a pair? 
I got home from work last night and was doing my usual misting and checks of my tanks and found one of my cacheros drowned in a film canister style cup. I believe it to be my female but I havent heard my male calling since I found her, usually he is quite the caller. They have been doing great together for months, so I have no idea what happened. 
I have seen pumilio that are raised in groups eventually fight and drown each other but never a pair. 

I did recently move to a new place, but had heard the male and seen them both hanging out together since the move but is it possible that it was just a stressful move for them? 

All my other frogs are doing great. Any experiences or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


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## PumilioTurkey (Feb 25, 2010)

If in a high stress situation Pumilio tend to dive for cover even if its deep water.

I know from other people having this happen.


so the Pumilios drown because of fear and their stupidity to evaluate the situation if they happend to be under water...


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