# Huge Tank Need Suggestions...



## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

This is my first post ever and first, I wanted to say that I greatly appreciate both the site and the members and I will be cherishing this hobby as well as this valued source of information for a very long time. THANK YOU ALL!

Now, I was lucky enough while shopping for my first viv setup to get a huge amount of equipment from a person on craigslist for about 7% of it's value... 

What I was able to get: (In the pictures)
1 90 gallon all glass corner bow front aquarium w/ stand
2 3 ft single T5 bulb fixtures that probably came with the tank and stand
1 3ft light fixture with 2 socket inputs and 1 T5 tube (I will probably use this)
5 or 6 Reptisun bulbs ranging from 3ft to 4ft
1 HUGE piece of driftwood that I can;t even fit in my oven
1 3ft log section of drift wood
1 huge water bowl that I will probably fill up somewhat with hydroton and use as a pool/drinking area 
2 pieces of nice composite drift wood (Heavy Plastic?) super nice though
And a handful of other stuff

Now for the real question...
How would everyone landscape this thing for a group of 7 or 8 Leucomelas with breeding being the end goal?

As for a background I was going to do the "great stuff" method but I am a little shy at this point. (I'll get over it lol)

I am going to go with the standard: Drain layer/mesh/substrate setup. Leaf litter, rock, and woods to fill it in nicely will also be used of course.  That being said I would like to keep a live vivarium. Bromeliads, mosses, etc..

I would also consider a water feature but I am not real excited at the idea.

Alright Dendroboard let's get creative!

Thanks again in advance! (I put a dollar bill in each of the pics for scaling because I don't want to reintroduce the dirty driftwood to my semi-sanitized tank so, sorry for that.)

-FoxHound


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

Welcome !

A couple of things come to mind. First, frogs don't drink, or at least not in the traditional sense. Moisiture is gathered through their skin. If you're misting correctly, then a water feature is not needed.

I would pass on the bowl all together without designing some way to drain it regularly. Standing water for any excessive length of time leads to potential problems. 

In addition, darts are terrible swimmers that can drown easily without very shallow water (below neckline) as well as multiple easy ingress and egress points. Not saying that it can't or shouldn't be done. Design is critical on pond type features so do your homework and read all you can.

I would ditch the large piece of wood for a couple of reasons. First, you don't know what it has come in contact with. Second, you have this big, beautiful tank with lots of space. You can use lots of smaller pieces of wood to build a small jungle. More hides for the Leucs, and a more interesting build for you.
While Leucs are known to be a group frog, you still need to design with lots of visual barriers.


Maybe try heading in this direction:

1) Decide on species. (Leucs. Awesome choice. You really can"t go wrong here)

2) Decide on a background. While backgrounds are not necessary, most folks here will agree that having a background gives the frogs a beter sense of security. It can be a simple as covering exterior of the rear walls with paint or paper, or doing interior wall designs with foam, Great Stuff, or clay.

3) In order to avoid what is fondly known as a tank train wreck, everything needs to be laid out and test fitted first. You dont want to be in the middle of spraying GS and find that your build does not fit together as you visualized. There are some members here that can design on the fly. For most of us mere PDF mortals, test fitting and layout helps us to avoid unseen problems.

4) Do not cut corners. There are places to cheat and times when screwing around could cause problems. We newer folks don"t have enough experience so it is better if we follow tradional build rules and guide lines, while using generally accepted build products. This is not the time to experiment because you found this great acetone-based foam product at a garage sale for cheap.

You should have all build materials together and enough money set aside for plant purchases. Better yet, time your plant purchases and have them available. A couple of 64 qt sterilite containers will house your plants so they are available during layout.

5) TAKE YOUR TIME. What you put in to your build is exactly what you get out of it. Fling it together and you'll have a really big crappy tank in which the Leucs will remain unimpressed. Plan you tank well, have all materials and plants together prior to beginning your build, work diligently on your design, and you will have a tank that brings a smile to your face, as well as providing an environment in which your frogs thrive.

A 90 is a beast of a tank and an incredible amount of work for anyone. Have you considered grabbing a smaller tank to cut your design teeth on, prior to going after this? You may be one of those rare gifted people that can pull off a tank of wonder and awe their first try. Most of us start with a much smaller tank as mistakes can be made and corrected for future builds.

To be clear, all this gibberish above is important gibberish but easily dealt with. Stay focused, take your time, and this tank will be the tank of your dereams!

Finally, once you settle on basic construction ideas, start a build thread. I can't tell you the number of times one of the vets here piped up on a build of mine and helped me to avoid problems. My tanks are about 50% my idea/design and 50% DB members.

Let the tank building games begin !


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

^^ what he said


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Go into the 'parts and construction' and 'members frogs and vivarium' sections and look at as many vivariums and builds as you can.

Go to the search feature and type in things like: bow front, 90 gallon, large vivarium, leuc vivarium, etc to help you find vivariums that may be more relevant to you.

Good luck


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

I also 2nd everything Zoomie said. 

Similar tank build: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/35695-90-gallon-re-build-pic-heavy.html

And shameless self-promotion: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/67196-92gal-corner-bowfront.html

Read, read, read, take a break, and then read some more. 

Also, lighting this this can be a pain in the butt. You might have to use all the T5 fixtures you have for good coverage. I had to add a small LED fixture to the back of mine because there was a dark spot.

Keep in mind the cost of everything. I spent quite a bit on plants for my 92 corner, and ended up just adding more! I'm not trying to brag "hey look how much I spent", but just trying to make sure you are prepared; the plants in that tank were around $180-200 shipped (can't remember) so plan accordingly!

Also, when making this tank, keep in mind that someday you may have to move etc. and you have to turn it sideways to fit through the door!

Oh, one more tidbit before I stop rambling. The search function on this forum can be a little...picky. Search this site by using this in google "whatever search terms you want site:dendroboard.com" - this way it will search for words like DIY etc.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks so much for the advice and information thus far! StevenHman your tank is almost a mirror image of my vision for my tank.  I can't wait to get started with the frogs but I am going to take alot of time with the viv for sure! you guys are the best and I can't wait to hear some more ideas.

Also, would you guys do a water feature or not? Drip wall, stream fountain? My only worry about that is the pump would probably have to go in the back and that makes it almost impossible to get to...

Looking forward to hearing more!
-FoxHound


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> Thanks so much for the advice and information thus far! StevenHman your tank is almost a mirror image of my vision for my tank.  I can't wait to get started with the frogs but I am going to take alot of time with the viv for sure! you guys are the best and I can't wait to hear some more ideas.
> 
> Also, would you guys do a water feature or not? Drip wall, stream fountain? My only worry about that is the pump would probably have to go in the back and that makes it almost impossible to get to...
> 
> ...


Yes like zoomie said get rid of that water dish. I thought you were building something for a dog lol. If your going to go with a water feature, I would consider using an egg create/pvc false bottom. The water will be able to flow and drain much easier. Just make sure you are able to access the pump/filter just in case you have an isssue with it (I forgot to add a drain and access point on my 1st viv). You have to be real creative to have access to your water feature. I've seen a member use the sponge of a filter to access their pump.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

omg, your tank is AWESOME!! The wood is AWESOME!! I'm going to subscribe.

do NOT be afraid of GS foam. You can just cut it off and redo it if it is not what you like. Just put it on thinly at first until you get the hang of it.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks alot for the encouragement!!  I wanted to toss my latest idea into the ring. What if I were to split the tank down the middle with some sort of plexi glass wall giving me 2 side by side 45s? I was thinking i could stick with 4 or 5 leucos on the one side and maybe a pair of cobalts on the other side. Is this even possible/recommended?

Thanks for your brainpower!

-FoxHound


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

FoxHound said:


> Thanks alot for the encouragement!!  I wanted to toss my latest idea into the ring. What if I were to split the tank down the middle with some sort of plexi glass wall giving me 2 side by side 45s? I was thinking i could stick with 4 or 5 leucos on the one side and maybe a pair of cobalts on the other side. Is this even possible/recommended?
> 
> Thanks for your brainpower!
> 
> -FoxHound


That's fine, I do it with a 40 gallon long split in half for leucs and auratus on different sides. The only thing to realize is that this will give you two side that are more like a square (in terms of vertical vs. horizontal height) than before, so for frogs like tinctorius which rarely climb more than a few inches, make sure there is still enough floor space. Also make sure the divider is tight enough to prevent frogs from crossing over or getting stuck in between while attempting to cross to the other side.
Bryan


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

I wonder if plexi would warp while it is the tank like it usually does when its used as a lid system? Should I use wood or some other type of material? I am working with a corner bow front so its gonna get a little tricky but I am really leaning toward this idea atm. Any cons to doing it this way?

Thanks much,
-FoxHound


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## R.variabilis (Sep 15, 2011)

I don't think the plexi would warp. But I think that would really depend on the thickness of it.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

At this point Im reserving my decision on whether or not I can find a sexes pair of cobalt, dashas, citronellas, or azureus for the right price. If I can't cone up with some deal or make a trade for a guitar from my store then I will probably just go with the whole thing for the leuconelas. I have money to put into the tank but I guess I should wait on my shopping results. 


Wish me luck,
-FoxHound 

P.S. I am still taking suggestions for just about anything and everything so keep giving me ideas! The feedback I have gotten has already been amazing and it's been less than 24hrs. Already made a local buddy, needless to say dendroboards is amazing!


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## mcaiger53 (Jan 3, 2011)

I have used plexi to divide tanks. I used 1/4", and thin silicone to hold it in place. Almost like constructing a tank. I have found that plexi warps much less when its secured around all its edges. I also used great stuff to make a "backround" on both sides of the plexi. I wasn't trying to make it seem like it was still one tank, rather 2 seperate tanks. 
Hope it helps, 
mike.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

SideBar: Is your name FOXHOUND, because of Metal Gear?

If this is your 1st time using GS proceed with caution. Use gloves, that stuff got stuck on my hands for a week.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> This is my first post ever and first, I wanted to say that I greatly appreciate both the site and the members and I will be cherishing this hobby as well as this valued source of information for a very long time. THANK YOU ALL!
> 
> Now, I was lucky enough while shopping for my first viv setup to get a huge amount of equipment from a person on craigslist for about 7% of it's value...
> 
> ...


I can't wait to see this done!!!
Yes I think a GS background with be awesome on this tank. For a water feature, there's tons of ways to do one. I personally like standing water or a slight trickle. Search up the thread "My jungle", imo, has one of the best water features ever. He/she used gs foam to make the water feature trickle into a small pond area. If you do plan on doing a water feature, an eggcrate false bottom will be your best bet. For leaf litter, I use locally collected oak, and my springs love it. You can really use those T5 bulbs at your advantage by the way, plenty of lighting! You should add that driftwood into the foam, but please be sure to silicone them in, they look heavy!!!


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

B-NICE said:


> SideBar: Is your name FOXHOUND, because of Metal Gear?


Yes it's a long story but my name did come from Metal Gear. lol

-FoxHound


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Ok everyone...

I was lucky enough to get some time to go grab some supplies today. I obviously didn't get very much and I have a long way to go as far as supplies but I at least put a dent in the amount of needed broms. (I hope)
I am not sure that since the broms are already flowering if that means that they are of no use to me? I really hope not. Also is there a way to top the bromeliad to bring down the height? I very clearly need to spend some time researching brom care. 

As you may or may not notice I grabbed some great stuff and decided what I was actually going to use out of the original group of stuff. I was also able to get a producing fruit fly culture so I am going to need to find a place to order the cups with lids and the media so I can start making my own. (I want to be well versed by the time my new froggy friends arrive.) I also found bags available of _Zoo Med's_ "forest floor" Cyprus mulch and I was wondering everyone's thoughts on using this stuff. While we are discussing substrate... I saw at my Wal-Mart confused a huge brick bag of "Sphagnum Peat moss" Is this stuff even appropriate or worth using? Only asking because it is fairly inexpensive. Before all this I was going to mix my own ABG mix. 


Moving on to chapter two of this epic novel... I have a question that has been bothering me about the GS background. My tank is obviously fairly large and awkward and I am aware of the fact that GS works best when the side you are spraying is on the floor... Do I have to do this or am I alright to try and do it as the tank sits? Any tips? 

I am also considering starting a construction journal. If I were to do this will you guys follow that and help me out?

*To Recap:*
Are my broms worth using?
Can I top them to bring down their height?
What is a good source of culturing supplies? (Cups, Lids, Media)
Substrate use? ("forest floor", Sphagnum peat, or homemade ABG?
Can I vertically apply GS to my background or do I have to have a buddy come over to help me weild this thing? (Tips)
Would you guys follow a detailed journal of my entrance into frogdom?




Much love,
-FoxHound

Also I am pretty sure I am only going to make this my large leucomelas community tank as opposed to the separation I was considering. If I want to pick up few Cobalts next summer to start breeding then a 20L tank can eailsy be obtained and built. The use of space may make my girlfriend a little mad but I would much rather see an unobstructed 90 gallon.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> Ok everyone...
> 
> I was lucky enough to get some time to go grab some supplies today. I obviously didn't get very much and I have a long way to go as far as supplies but I at least put a dent in the amount of needed broms. (I hope)
> I am not sure that since the broms are already flowering if that means that they are of no use to me? I really hope not. Also is there a way to top the bromeliad to bring down the height? I very clearly need to spend some time researching brom care.
> ...


Looks like you're on the right track! 
Flowering bromeliads just mean they are pupping, have already pupped, or about to pup. I personally only like bromeliad flowers that are really small. Also the flowers mean it might slowly start to die. Note on the great stuff: I'm glad you bought the blue cans. The red can foam usually shrinks off the glass and frogs can get behind and might die. Those look like 2-12oz cans? I used 1 12 oz and one 16 oz can on my 29g. For your tank you'll need about 4-5 cans. You will only need to get about 3 tub es of silicone though, but since you'll want to mount any wood to the glass with silicone, you might wanna get 4.
You got the right stuff at wal-mart. Sphagnum peat moss! I believe it is just sphagnum moss that has already started to turn into coal. I'm really glad I bought the cypress over the rochid bark, my springtails are loving it and so are my plants. 
I'm not so sure you can chop of the brom flower thingy (that actually isn't the flower, flowers will come out of it)
With substrate, I don't think pure peat moss or cypress mulch will work. You wanna add the peat/cypress to other ingredients for the best result. Peat moss might compact, cypress mulch doesn't have a lot of good plant stuff, but if you mix the cypress and peat with other stuff you'll have a great substrate! 
I have had bad luck doing gs foam vertically because it usually falls and goes to the bottom. Better safe than sorry!
I'd follow a detailed construction journal on this tank btw


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Nothing to spectacular happened today as far as construction. I have decided though to keep the detailed construction journal. Should I do this as a thread or should I start a blog? 

Per a wise person's advice () I picked up a few more provisions but I'm hoping to start spraying the background tomorrow. 

I also have another $100 worth of stuff I am going to buy when I get my paycheck on Friday. (Or when I sell my truck/motorcycle/mtg collection/everything else I have sitting around that I don't use...) So hopefully sooner than Friday.

Will update tomorrow while I am bored at work.

-*FoxHound*


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Awesome! Is that a petco hygrometer or thermometer? I've heard the hygrometers are usually inaccurate (by up to 20% at times) but i'm not sure on the thermometers, I think they're ok.
Make sure you get enough substrate supplies, I burnt through an entire 8 quart bag of forest floor, 8 quart bag of tree fern fibre, 2 entire boxes if sphagnum, a tub of aquarium charcoal, and a lot of peat moss with a little extra in a 29g (I have about 3 inches of substrate)
That little basking rock thing in the front, I think if you sprayed foam in side of it to blend into the background it would look really cool! I also really like that driftwood in the middle, the branchy one. Also, good thinking of getting GEI over GEII


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

I am dying to see what happens with the creepy baby head.

oh, this gives me great ideas for the goth viv, thank you.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah that baby head thing is a little creepy. I am open to suggestions on that. I also like the idea of blending the little basking rock into the back. You guys are the best! I am going to be moving at a snails pace for the next little bit because I want to have everything ready to go before I dive in. I also have a question now about GSing plants into the background... Do I just GS the pot with the soil right in or should I leave a cavity when I do the background and plant it in afterwards? 

I am currently on the hunt for a good source for plants for the viv. I returned all those "c minus" bromeliads. I am currently leaning towards New England Herpetoculture - Home as the source for most of my stuff but it seems all their really good bromeliads and such are sold out. While I am on the subject of planting does anyone have any moss starters they would want to sell me? I like regilila (looks like grass) or whatever it's called for some reason the name escapes me.

Moving on, I am going to mix the existing coco fiber bricks with the orchid bark (forest floor) add some charcoal and then use sphagnum peat moss from Wally world to fluff everything up. I will probably add a little bit of pet store sphagnum to give it even more fluff and then pack most of it down into a realistic looking landscape. *Should I be adding anything else to this mix?*

For the frogs themselves, I am considering an offer I was extended over the board to get my frogs. But I am also looking for a good deal on either 6-8 leucomelas or 4-6 cobalts. I would also consider another species as long as they are Dendrobates and rated for newb-novice care. Just trying to make my way to 25 posts so I can start wheeling and dealing in the marketplace.

Also any feedback on the best way to start a journal? Should I just continue to use this thread, start a new thread in another section, or do it as a blog? Anyone who has done a construction journal feel free to PM me or respond by QR.

-_FoxHound_


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Substrate: if you can get some tree fern fiber, you might consider adding it. The folks here have convinced me that its really needed if you want a viv that lasts.

I got a beginner plant package from NE Herp and i am very happy with the plants. The broms are great. If you are looking for something specific you might just email them and see if they can help you. They have been very helpful to me!!!

This is a journal. Who needs a blog? Unless you want a bigger audience than us.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah that baby head thing is a little creepy. I am open to suggestions on that. I also like the idea of blending the little basking rock into the back. You guys are the best! I am going to be moving at a snails pace for the next little bit because I want to have everything ready to go before I dive in. I also have a question now about GSing plants into the background... Do I just GS the pot with the soil right in or should I leave a cavity when I do the background and plant it in afterwards?
> 
> I am currently on the hunt for a good source for plants for the viv. I returned all those "c minus" bromeliads. I am currently leaning towards New England Herpetoculture - Home as the source for most of my stuff but it seems all their really good bromeliads and such are sold out. While I am on the subject of planting does anyone have any moss starters they would want to sell me? I like regilila (looks like grass) or whatever it's called for some reason the name escapes me.
> 
> ...


With the pots an GS- most people don't do it. Almost 100% of plants will grow bare root in the air in a moist environment, but ferns are another story. It would be best if you are gonna add pots to not have dirt in them because if it got into the foam while curing, it could make a mess of things. 
With the substrate, tree fern can be added as Beth said. It will help make it more airy, but I don't think i'll add it from now on. I can't get it locally which is a pain, and I think only online orchid supply stores sell them from what i've found so far. Usually good starter frogs are Auratus, luecs, and tincs. I personally like auratus more than the two, especially D. Auratus Campana, but it's solely decision. Just a heads up, not a lot of people look at blogs. You can either use what you got going, or start another thread.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Ok! Thanks for the clarification on the plants almost caused myself a headache.  As far as the blog stuff I really didn't want to do all that but I was just making sure that I wasn't posting in the wrong section and stepping on toes. I really like it here so I try to be really conscious of how I come off and what I say. And there is no way I want to have a bigger audience than Dendroboard. I want advice form the pros and Dendroboard is where the pros put us newbs to school. 

I can't thank everyone enough for guiding me this far. I have joined a million forums before and I have never had as warm of a reception or such an educational experience anywhere else! A skeptic would say that I was just visiting the wrong forums... I just call it finding a niche and making some great friends!

I will be in contact with neherp soon so I will inquire about specifics. Anyone feel like giving me a rough idea of how many plants I will need minimum to make this tank look natural?

As I mentioned earlier I received a great offer from a DB member on some leucomelas. I am wondering if I should try to get the frogs since I plan to have a quarantine period? Would the 2 week quarantine be hard to pull off while constructing the viv? I REALLY need to figure out if it is wise of me to get them at this point or to just wait it out and get the best deal when I will be ready in about 2 weeks anyways. DECISIONS DECISIONS! (Thanks double in advance for any advice offered on this subject!) 

Humbly grateful,
-_FoxHound_


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

I was going to start a new thread to answer this question but that seems unnecessary.

How long will it be before I ditch my "Junior Member" status? I have nearly 30 posts.

Thanks in advance, 
-_FoxHound_


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> Yes it's a long story but my name did come from Metal Gear. lol
> 
> -FoxHound


SIDEBAR: Metal Gear is one of the best games ever.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

You have to get 100 post to become a member. You need to gowith a false bottom, EGG Create & PVC. Here's a pic. You get good drainage of the substrate. I also added a "Man Hole" which is a 1'' piece of PVC with a cap to get out the water under the false bottom. TropicalPlantz.com has some good plats for nice prices. If I were you I would get rid of the stick on Thermo/Hyrdo meters, they break quick. Go with a digital one, I have one from Zilla. It has to 2 probes with suction cups. It looks like you already put one of those meters on your BG, and your going to cover it with GS, so those are kind of useless. You can just throw he probes in the viv when you need. When you see a nice bit of condensation on the glass thats when you know your getting a high level of humidity. Do you have a glass top? If not maybe you should get a piece cut b4 you get busy, because with that bow fron tank you might have to take it to a glass shop to get fitted. My 1st viv I GS pots in the BG. My 2nd viv I didn't, I ust justed standard staples and pushed the vines into the GS BG its really easier and looks very natural. You will need to drill holes thru the foam and the pot to get drainage, because some of the plants will basically die because the substrate will be too saturated with water. Thats how I lost 1 and only 1 plant in my 3 vivs so far.


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Neontra said:


> With the pots an GS- most people don't do it. Almost 100% of plants will grow bare root in the air in a moist environment, but ferns are another story. It would be best if you are gonna add pots to not have dirt in them because if it got into the foam while curing, it could make a mess of things.


I'd disagree with this a little, as I think adding pots to the background can be very benificial as long as they're done properly. There are plenty of tanks on here that have pots, so I'm not sure why you think most people don't do it. High humiditiy will cause non-epiphytic plants to grow adventitious roots at the nodes, but they would still benifit from being planted. You just need to make sure that you provide drainage for any pots placed in the background. Plastic aquarium tubing that runs from the back of the pot to your false bottom behind the GS will accomplish this. I generally fill my pots with sphagnum, but I wait until everything is cured. I'm not sure why you would put dirt in them while it's curing anyways.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

As of now I am pretty sure I am just going to gs some empty net pots in when I do the background. I have been trying to do a mock up with Photoshop so stay tuned!

-_FoxHound_


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> I was going to start a new thread to answer this question but that seems unnecessary.
> 
> How long will it be before I ditch my "Junior Member" status? I have nearly 30 posts.
> 
> ...





FoxHound said:


> Ok! Thanks for the clarification on the plants almost caused myself a headache.  As far as the blog stuff I really didn't want to do all that but I was just making sure that I wasn't posting in the wrong section and stepping on toes. I really like it here so I try to be really conscious of how I come off and what I say. And there is no way I want to have a bigger audience than Dendroboard. I want advice form the pros and Dendroboard is where the pros put us newbs to school.
> 
> I can't thank everyone enough for guiding me this far. I have joined a million forums before and I have never had as warm of a reception or such an educational experience anywhere else! A skeptic would say that I was just visiting the wrong forums... I just call it finding a niche and making some great friends!
> 
> ...





freaky_tah said:


> I'd disagree with this a little, as I think adding pots to the background can be very benificial as long as they're done properly. There are plenty of tanks on here that have pots, so I'm not sure why you think most people don't do it. High humiditiy will cause non-epiphytic plants to grow adventitious roots at the nodes, but they would still benifit from being planted. You just need to make sure that you provide drainage for any pots placed in the background. Plastic aquarium tubing that runs from the back of the pot to your false bottom behind the GS will accomplish this. I generally fill my pots with sphagnum, but I wait until everything is cured. I'm not sure why you would put dirt in them while it's curing anyways.


Very true that plants will benefit from being planted. I guess it's just personally opinion. Get ready though, some pots will get lost in the foam, especially the smaller net cups.


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Neontra said:


> Very true that plants will benefit from being planted. I guess it's just personally opinion. Get ready though, some pots will get lost in the foam, especially the smaller net cups.


If you're using net pots and great stuff properly, you shouldn't be losing any in the foam...


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey everyone sorry I haven't updated recently life has been kinda busy lately. I am still pretty much at the same place I was as far as construction...  But I have a new idea that I wanted to run by everyone.

I have been seriously considering going with phyllobates vittatus. I heard they did well in larger groups so my plan at this point is to order 8 pretty soon and then order another 4 within the next month. 

I realize that phyllobates are considered a novice frog but I of course think I can handle it. (Correct me if you think I am wrong please, I wont be offended.)

Is staggering the order like that going to be a bad idea for any reason? I figured by the time the first group of 8 goes in the next group of 4 will only be a max 2-4 weeks behind. Is this an acceptable number considering my tanks size?

Thanks again for any advice,
-_FoxHound_


P.S. I can't believe I almost forgot to tell everyone about my nice light fixture I got going today. I am super stoked about it as it provides a more natural light to the tank. (Not aquarium blueish anymore .) I also have the ability to pop in a 36" plant bulb in the back if needed. (Probably gonna.)

Check out the pic and let me know what you think!


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

FoxHound said:


> I am currently on the hunt for a good source for plants for the viv. I returned all those "c minus" bromeliads. I am currently leaning towards New England Herpetoculture - Home as the source for most of my stuff but it seems all their really good bromeliads and such are sold out. While I am on the subject of planting does anyone have any moss starters they would want to sell me? I like regilila (looks like grass) or whatever it's called for some reason the name escapes me.
> 
> Moving on, I am going to mix the existing coco fiber bricks with the orchid bark (forest floor) add some charcoal and then use sphagnum peat moss from Wally world to fluff everything up. I will probably add a little bit of pet store sphagnum to give it even more fluff and then pack most of it down into a realistic looking landscape. *Should I be adding anything else to this mix?*
> 
> ...


NEherp is a great vendor, there is obviously a good reason why they sell out of broms so often.

Just make sure that the sphagnum peat moss doesnt have any additives. I would add leaf litter to that list. I like to shred maple leaves to mix into the substrate, then use oak or tulip poplar as a substrate covering.

I vote that you start a construction journal under the parts and construction section, and leave a link to it here so that people who see this thread first can find their way to it. Otherwise you will get pm's and replies on this thread asking if you ever finished it, even if it is finished and raved about in another thread. Also, give lots of details when you do post in a construction thread. Things that seem obvious to you arent always so to others.


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## Raf (Feb 20, 2010)

IMO you don't need to use broms if your frogs doesn't use them. They don't add to a realistic looking landscape. They don't appear so close to the ground. I added them because my thumbs uses the broms.

You can use pots in the background but It's difficult to hide them in the foam. you have to spray a lot of foam to cover the pots and you end up with a background full of bulges that don't look natural. Most viv plants can survive pinned to the background.

A really natural looking viv is rather boring when it comes to plants. In nature you won't find 10 types of plants in a small area. you better use 3 or 4 types of plants and plant them in small groups of the same type.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

has anyone suggested slowing down and doing a lot of reading before diving in to a project this huge?


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

If you have read the thread you know I plan on taking my time. I spend about 3 to 4 hours researching dendroboard daily. Not to say at all that I don't appreciate the advice it just seemed to me like you assumed that I intended on slapping this together. I am a responsible pet owner and care for my pets as if they were children. Believe me when I say that this decision is at least a year if not more in the making already and not something I take lightly. Sorry if that sounded crass or defensive but I felt an explanation of intention, planning, and character was in order. 

To answer your question yes, that advice has been offered by members before and I have been diligently doing the research required to make this a success. I feel like those that have been helping the most in this undertaking have little doubt that I can make it work.

Having said that please feel free to periodically stop by and do spot check on anything I have or have not posted about.

Sincerely,
-FoxHound


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## Raf (Feb 20, 2010)

If you take your time you can achieve a great result.
A few steps will help:

- Search reference photos of real world examples: shutterstock, terracom.tk,...
- Make a sketch of your viv how you would like it to be
- make a list of the technique, tubing, pomp, aquariumheater, filters,... this need to be finished before decorating the viv.
- After installing the 'hardware' decide which background, bottom material you wanna use. Pay attention to the disadvantages of the chosen materials. for ex. acrylic binder/peat and flowing water is a no go,...
- Start planting when everything else is finished. 
- Don't use too much types of plants. It's much more natural when you choose a couple of plants and use those in small groups.

Don't use symmetry; don't place a branch, plant, root structure,... in the middle of the viv. Make it look random.

*Read, read, read and be critical*. Everyone has it's own favorite way and will defend it. Choose whatever you feel comfortable with but don't take the easy way if you want a nice viv. A good viv takes a lot of work and patience.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Listen to this RAF, he has one of the best builds on here, you should also follow his thread. You might get some great ideas. A lot of ppl are using the tree root method he using in his viv. I don't know if he created, but hes the 1st person I seen do it.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

VicSkimmr said:


> has anyone suggested slowing down and doing a lot of reading before diving in to a project this huge?


Back on page 1:



Okapi said:


> Go into the 'parts and construction' and 'members frogs and vivarium' sections and look at as many vivariums and builds as you can.
> 
> Go to the search feature and type in things like: bow front, 90 gallon, large vivarium, leuc vivarium, etc to help you find vivariums that may be more relevant to you.
> 
> Good luck


and




stevenhman said:


> Read, read, read, take a break, and then read some more.
> 
> Oh, one more tidbit before I stop rambling. The search function on this forum can be a little...picky. Search this site by using this in google "whatever search terms you want site:dendroboard.com" - this way it will search for words like DIY etc.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Sorry I have been away... I have decided to go with a more detailed construction journal. This thread may go dormant but I still may resort back to asking the more simple or care based questions here. 

The Construction Journal: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...onstruction-journal-pic-heavy.html#post656329

Stop in at that thread and hopefully subscribe!

Thanks for a great first post,
-*FoxHound*


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey everyone!

I finally have something to be proud of on the shelf.  Unfortunately, it's not my 90 gallon as I am going to be putting that off until the spring or summer. 

I decided that I would just take a video and post it since I forgot to snap pictures off at every stage. 

This is my 20 long that I built to house my future breeding pair. It is still in the process of being planted but I figured a video of it without wood and plants would show the background and the tank space well. I plan to add a large piece of mopani that I got and a hollowed out log hide after the plants go in and take root a little. 

I wanted to post the video on here to show everyone that subscribed to this thread what I have been up to. I will probably make yet another build journal and just post 1 or 2 more short videos of the post planting and introduction in a while. 

As always I am open to advice.

Thanks alot everyone for getting me this far,
-Fox


EyeCandy: -> 





Also just realized the audio is a bit short of terrible so bear with me. I'm not used to my phone yet . (Keep the volume low...)


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

CRAP apparently the upload went terribly! At least this gives you a sneak peak. I will re-do the vid after work...  At least the audio problem isn't an issue anymore!


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

A re-upload did the trick enjoy!


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Looks nice! Few questions though, first, why is the water feature "spitting" out water? It's kind of funny!
second, do "soft white" bulbs really produce more heat than daylight bulbs? 
It really sucks that you're gonna have to keep off on the 90g


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I would ditch the clear slicone and go with black....I used clear the first time and I will never make that mistake again.
black hides better and blends in with eco earth better


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

The water feature is "spitting" because it's a purely air driven pump mechanism. I used some of my hydroponics know how to make a drip as I felt this would be more cost effective and it would be more true to nature approach. (I figured that since they live on the ground of the rainforest that dripping water would likely be what they dealt with on a more frequent basis.) I will probably end up building another tank fairly soon so I can use the sub-pump style. Funds just ran short and I wanted to make sure to leave enough in my budget to buy frogs and get any emergency supplies that I may need. I will most likely add silicone and a screen on the end of the nozzle to diffuse the ferocious spit into a more docile running type of water feature.


Hopefully I won't regret this decision.

I have also lost a few of my tillys and my one and only fern. I left them in there because they aren't completely dead and I hoping that they will bounce back. 

The next step is to figure out why my moss is singeing under the light and going yellow in spots even though I am misting very frequently. I am going to be acquiring 3 very young leuc froglets to grow out myself this weekend with any luck. I decided to go with leucomelas as they are the most beginner friendly frog and their price tag is right. 

Sorry for the delay in posts but I was battling the dreaded stomach flu this whole week and I am just now feeling like a living human being again.

-Fox


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## R.variabilis (Sep 15, 2011)

Bummer you were sick. Tank looks great. Thanks for uploading a video. Also saw your new frogs!


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> The water feature is "spitting" because it's a purely air driven pump mechanism. I used some of my hydroponics know how to make a drip as I felt this would be more cost effective and it would be more true to nature approach. (I figured that since they live on the ground of the rainforest that dripping water would likely be what they dealt with on a more frequent basis.) I will probably end up building another tank fairly soon so I can use the sub-pump style. Funds just ran short and I wanted to make sure to leave enough in my budget to buy frogs and get any emergency supplies that I may need. I will most likely add silicone and a screen on the end of the nozzle to diffuse the ferocious spit into a more docile running type of water feature.
> 
> 
> Hopefully I won't regret this decision.
> ...


I hope you get better 
About the plants dying, i'm suffering similar issues too and I might loose my favorite bromeliad. I think it's from too much misting and not enough ventilation/air movement. I placed a fan in my tank and got a ew top and appears to have almost stopped.


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