# Ponds



## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

When you say "pond" what do you mean? Do you mean an actual mini "pond" or just a water bowl burried in the substrate? I'm confoosed. Thanks!

P.S. Pics would be very appreciated.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

A pond can be any of the above. My paludarium ponds are actually sections of aquarium and lagoons with fish in them, separated from the terrestrial portions by vertical glass siliconed into place, with a pump and water falls. Many ponds are part of a false bottom full of water that is exposed to the surface one way or another, depending upon how you build and set up the false bottom. These can contain a pump that circulates a water fall. Or it can just be a dish of water. There are dozens of ways to make artificial waterways and ponds, either very simply, or quite complex, involving outside water sources and filters. Check out the vivarium forum here.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

My ponds have always been sections, usually around 1/4 to 1/3 the floorspace of the tank, with the land separated by rocks, cage decor, cork pieces, etc to hold back the drainage layer (gravel or LECA in my case). The water level was only limited by how deep I made the drainage layer... up to two inches before it would reach the substrate and thus saturate it. I currently employ these tanks with frogs I'm hoping will deposit tads in the ponds (tricolor/anthonyi, mantellas, P. auroteania) and are primarily terrestrial species. These frogs tend to place their clutches of tads into one pool of water (can be raised easily as community tads). 

Here is an example of me using cork bark to separate the pond from land:









I've also had truncatus and tinctorius breed in these set ups, but they tend to prefer to deposit single tads in "water reseviors"... things such as smaller water bowls, jungle pods, votive candle holders on their sides, etc. These type frogs the "water bowl" idea is preferable over a larger "pond" if you're looking for tadpoles to be deposited. I tend to use ceramic cat food bowls... easy to remove and clean, heavy enough that even my rambunctious bicolor can't knock them over.

I, for the record, do not have moving water in my PDF tanks. The only tanks I have, or plan to have moving water in are with frogs that breed in moving water in the wild (only a couple species in the whole 250+ sp family of Dendrobatidae, and my mantellas). I keep these tanks more for my frogs' pleasure than mine. If they are happy, I'm happy.

Without tadpoles in mind, these are really only water features to make us happy, so do what you want, just keep the frogs' safety in mind in making sure they have ways out... avoid the drowning situation - wet frogs in water can't "climb" glass like they could before they took a dip, and will swim into corners or around circular water bowls to get out... if the water is too deep for the frog to hold its nose out of water (think up to the frog's jaw level when in a sitting position as an ideal safety level) the frog can tire out and drown. I provide multiple "pull out" features such as rocks, logs into the water, clump of plant growing in the corner, etc., as well as having shallower "corners" in my pond... well placed rocks and/or gravel allow the frogs to rest even if they aren't smart enough to turn around and head for shore.


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

When I created a pond for my pumilio tank, I just cut down a side of a rounded tuperware and siliconed the edges to the side of the viv. Then I siliconed peat inside the tupperware to give it a "natural" look. Now I just have to refill it a little bit every couple of days but apart from that it's all good. And if you ever don't want a pond anymore you can just stop refilling it and stick some leaf litter in, etc.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

For my "ponds" I leave out the Leca in that area. Leca goes under the substrate in a layer that goes up around and inch higher than the desired water level. Ponds get a layer of an inch or two of gravel intended for planted aquariums. 
Very simple and low maintanance. (that being putting more water in if you want it deeper).

If you try to section off the water area, a lot of times you will get something wicking the water out of the pond, and just end up with the same level of water on both sides of the partition. But that is not to say that method will not work.


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## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

http://www.petco.com/Assets/product_images/1/1556122804B.jpg
That is what I was thinking. It has "stairs" to get out nad it's side have gripping. Do you think that would work? And do I have to have a drainage layer? Thanks!


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## Josh_Leisenring (Jun 19, 2005)

That would probably be fine. I wouldn't worry about drainage, since all you would need to do with that is remove it from your viv to change the water.
As far as my ponds/water elements go, I usually make steps in my false bottoms that leave depressions in the substrate that fill with water, being sunk below the water line of the tank. Good luck! 

- Josh


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## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

If I use that as water do I need like leca or a false bottom on the bottom? I'm so confoosed. Thanks!


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Whatever floats your boat... you need a drainage layer. A couple inches of LECA/gravel/non-biodegradable Styrofoam chips is one way, another is to do a false bottom.... just two different ways used to allow for an area under the substrate for water to collect so it won't saturate the substrate, turning it into a stinky bog....


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## Josh_Leisenring (Jun 19, 2005)

Hey, Corey, I think he might be refering to the dish he linked to above. If that's the case, you could put some gravel in the bottom if you like, but I think it would be fine either way. I doubt it's deep enough to actually put a false bottom in, and I don't really see any reason to do so. Good luck! 

- Josh


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## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

I REALLY don't want to do a false bottom. So I can put gravel at the bottom? Does it have to be pea gravel or can I use "creek gravel"? Thanks!


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2006)

you don't even have to use gravel, you can use river bed sand. No effect on pH.
I create my ponds by using rocks siliconed to the glass and to each other to fashion a shoreline. THe rocks hold the land sections back from a landslide. I never use glass anymore to separate the pond and land, too unnatural to me, and it always ends up wicking water to the land side.
Here are some pics:

















This pond can hold water up to where the moss is growing on that rock in the middle without water logging the land. But I don't do it cuase I have some Micranthemum growing on the left side.










A river type pond. Its a pond cuase the water doesn't circulate.

























Or a simple hole in the ground like this one:
Look on the lower left corner.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

You have all of the above choices, and most all of them will work. Don't be afraid of inventing a new one. I don't have any two vivariums exactly alike, from a more complicated paludaium to false bottoms, using different methods, to just a simple draingage area that sustains the dart frogs, as long as the temperatures and humidity are in range. You may lose more inappropriatly chosen plants or placed plants, but you can always change that. It's not like a dart tank set-up is written in stone by Moses. As long as you can keep up the humidity and temperatures they need, and respect the inividual species and territory requirements, it will be fine.


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## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

Just 1 more Q:
Do i *NEED* screen above the drainage layer between the substrate? Like if it's gravel? I think I'm gonna gop ahead with the big bowl for a "pond". Thanks!


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## Josh_Leisenring (Jun 19, 2005)

When I just use a gravel drainage layer, I will place a piece of screen between the gravel and the substrate, otherwise the subtrate will begin working its way down through the gravel, rendering it kinda useless as a drainage layer after a while. How fast this occurs depends, of course, on what substrate you use and what size gravel you use, but, IMO, they're going to mix if you don't have something separating them. You don't absolutely NEED the screen, but I'd personally recommend it. Good luck! 

- Josh


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

If you don't use the screen, then you're going to need a thick layer of sphagnum moss or coco fiber to keep the substrate from sinking into the drainage layer. If enough of the substrate gets into the drainage layer it might acutally suck water up into the substrate making it soggy - what you are trying to aviod. You need to have *something* keeping the substrate from going into the drainage layer... I use sphagnum moss.


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## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

Well my substrate is %0% coco fiber and 50 % spaghum so can I get away with no "seperation layer"? Thanks!


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

An even finer screen is a layer of weed cloth, the kind that is used on top of bedding plants to prevent weeds from emerging, but still allowing water to drip through.


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## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

ok i'll see if I can do that. Thanks!


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## frogies rule (Nov 8, 2006)

going back to making a pond do you think that i could use greatstuff to make a boundary to keep the water from flooding my drainage/substrate layer and then use silicone to make a little gravel hill leading into the pond? ps i will have a moss gowing on the land


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Reptilian,

I've always used AC filters as a screen layer between substrate & drainage layer (in my case LECA). It's very cheap, holds up indefinitely, and is easy to mold around whatever relief you're trying for...


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