# Tree frog co-habitation



## FlyingPollock (Jan 30, 2012)

I've got a 160 gal. Tall tank, currently home to three azeures. I know mixing species is generally frowned upon, but I'll say this. On a recent trip to the zoo I viewed a dart frog exhibit, (roughly the same size as my tank) that contained several species of darts and a full grown red eye tree frog. I would never mix species of darts for lots of reason but has anyone had success with housing tree frogs and darts together? again it's a large, tall tank.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

One of the main reasons mixing is frowned upon has to do with the fact that If they were to interbreed no one wants it to mess with the gene pools and cause it to get into circulation. No one can really stop you but if you were to get any frogs out of it for safety sake I wouldn't keep the eggs.(I suppose tree frogs probably couldn't fertilize darts eggs anyways but if they can)


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

they certainly could not breed.

the two biggest issues that i see are finding frogs that require the same size food (crickets and other large prey items that are commonly used for RETFs and other tree frogs can predate on darts, or stress them into sickness or death)

cross contamination is also a huge issue. both healthy seeming frogs can carry pathogens which would affect the other resulting again in sickness or death.

its like the people in india who have grown up bathing in the ganges river. its full of nasty stuff that they have built a resistance to. if i jumped in i would likely suffer from a number of nasties that my body isnt accustom to.

all in alll is a huge risk to your animals which would be undertaken solely for your enjoyment. something that, your right, this community seems to "frown upon"

james


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## Golden State Mantellas (Mar 12, 2011)

Why not just set up a second tank for the treefrogs? You know a RETF would be perfectly fine in a 20g (H or L) vert conversion.

Why do people insist on contemplating mixing species? The reasons against have been beaten like a dead horse OVER AND OVER, from novel pathogens, to stress, to possible predation, there is no good reason TO mix.

Why not consider the best possible care for the species you are caring for, regardless of how a zoo or other institution keeps their species.


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

I used to frown on mixed species tanks but finally took the plunge and I've been hooked on them for years. Go for it, the advantages outweigh the risks, just plan the species carefully. I love the fact that I can have a terrarium with darts, geckos, and pygmy chams at the same time. It allows something of interest in always be present and they are are reproducing successfully.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

While I'm not necessarily opposed to multispecies enclosures, I have to point out that there is significant risk to housing non-zoogeographic correct species much less taxa together... This has been shown to be a risk to not only the pet animals but wild populations as well.. for example, in captive and wild populations we see the issue with native Gopherus spp (mycoplasma) but in Terrapene (mycoplasma again), rana viruses (both captive and wild populations (including EU imports into the states)....and we can also see this with chytrid where the best evidence is pointing towards strains recombining to increase lethality.. and we shouldn't forget that there is a petition before USF&W to prohibit importation and/or insterstate transport of amphibians, thier eggs or larve unless certified to be free of chytrid (the details can be found here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...deral-listing-chytrid-free-certification.html)....... 

The first thing the OP needs to decide is which species of dendrobatids he wants to work with and then evaluate the enclosure to see if it could support other niches..and then and only then proceed with the build...much less species aquisition. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Blue_Pumilio said:


> I used to frown on mixed species tanks but finally took the plunge and I've been hooked on them for years. Go for it, the advantages outweigh the risks, just plan the species carefully. I love the fact that I can have a terrarium with darts, geckos, and pygmy chams at the same time. It allows something of interest in always be present and they are are reproducing successfully.


Please explain the advantages. Other than saving space by housing multiple species in one enclousure. Please explain the advantages and tell me how a dart frog benefits from being housed with animals it would never encounter in the wild, animals from a completely different continent.


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

I guess the same thing can be said of plants from a different continent then the frogs. 

I'm curious how many people here who have kept and worked with mixed species enclosures are against them? It has allowed me to keep three times as many animals in the same space, provided they have different niches in the tank. Plus, the beauty of it all. Of course, I advocate for the se of healthy specimens only. I also understand that very few people here do much to prevent contamination between enclosures, so I feel that has little basis here. 

I have nothing left to comment on it. You have your opinion, I have mine. I used to support yours, but, I came over to the dark side. There is a wonderful art to it, just like mixing plants. 



Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Please explain the advantages. Other than saving space by housing multiple species in one enclousure. Please explain the advantages and tell me how a dart frog benefits from being housed with animals it would never encounter in the wild, animals from a completely different continent.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Oh I'm not totally against it, I think it can be done, it just has to be done correctly. 
I almost laughed out loud when I saw your comment about cross contamination. It really seems like many people don't even quarantine, so why would they worry about cross contamination.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

I would would get something from the the same location if I were you. As stated by someone else in this thread, A Tree Frog can eat a Dart. I would suggest getting a smaller tree frog. I've seen tree frogs eat mice. A froglet would get swallowed whole, by some Tree Frogs.


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## FlyingPollock (Jan 30, 2012)

OP,here. I want to be clear about what I'm asking here. I'm not suggesting mixing RETF with darts, (obviously the zoo exhibit was poorly considered) I was just curious if people on this board have had successes setting up an Eco-system that contains both darts and small tree frogs? I have made paludariums that contain darts and fish and insects. I've also set up many tree frog and fish vivs. My question is simply has anyone here had success with small TFs and darts. I never set up a tank flippantly but I do try to consider everything I can. Thanks anyway to anyone who's weighed in on this.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

FlyingPollock said:


> OP,here. I want to be clear about what I'm asking here. I'm not suggesting mixing RETF with darts, (obviously the zoo exhibit was poorly considered)


I'm considering taking issue with the poorly considered comment.... 



FlyingPollock said:


> I was just curious if people on this board have had successes setting up an Eco-system that contains both darts and small tree frogs? I have made paludariums that contain darts and fish and insects. I've also set up many tree frog and fish vivs. My question is simply has anyone here had success with small TFs and darts. I never set up a tank flippantly but I do try to consider everything I can. Thanks anyway to anyone who's weighed in on this.


Yes, I worked with dendrobates with conspecific Dendropsophus ebracattus. ... It has been discussed elsewhere. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## FlyingPollock (Jan 30, 2012)

Blerg, I don't usually say this on this site, but this hasn't been very helpful. I realize people have opinions and that's cool but I was really looking for info and shared experiences. But I still love ya'll anyway.


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