# Exoterra xl x-tall 36x18x36 build log



## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok so pretty soon im going to start construction of my third and largest vivarium on an exoterra xl x-tall 36x18x36 tank. Im planning on doing a false bottom with a gs background and a waterfall/small stream. I already picked up the tank and have most of the materials i need so i will put together a mock up of my layout to try and see how it will work later this week. Ill post pictures when i do to get some feedback/advice before i start on the real build. 

Anyway i figured for now id let you guys know what to expect and ask a few Qs in the mean time. I was considering getting some auratis for this tank when complete and prehaps getting a few long tailed grass lizards since it is such a tall enclosure and theyd be in a different niche in the tank. I also was considering if it would be okay to house my two anoles in it instead but dont think that would work becuase anoles are alittle more aggressive then ltgl. Maybe it would work cause the encloser will be so high and have the auratis on the bottom and the two anoles will spend most of their time on top. Any input on this? 

Also my local reptile store has a display tank set up with a couple of different types of dart frogs, longtailed grass lizards and pygmy chameleons in the same tank. They said they always do fine in there and it is the smaller version of my tank(24x18x24), is this okay? I know you shouldnt mix stuff but i always see that tank there and all the animals seems to be healthy Would i be able to have a set up like this without problems?

And thats about it so ill post some pictures of my plans when i temporarily set things up and ask for some input before anything is permenant.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Chances are that they are one of the grassland Takydromus (grass lizard) species and the humidity of a dart viv would be too high...thats just problem one, I'll let others point out the rest. What species of anoles do you have? Why not set up different tanks for each species you are interested in working with? That way you can enjoy them all without all the associated risks of a multi-species tank.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Yea that is what i was planning on doing. I am planning on builidng another smaller tank for my two green anoles. I am just very set on getting dart frogs but feel as though it is a wast for this tank since it is so tall. Maybe i should get something else for this tank and maybe in the future buy a less vertical tank. I feel as though it would be alot less humid towards the top of the tank since it has a mesh lid though so maybe thats why the grass lizard was doing well


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

It may be a little drier at the top, so it's possible that's why they are surviving. I used to do all kinds of mixed-species tanks and just got tired of losing animals, so now I keep single-species tanks. The turning point for me was catching a jade tf eating an adult crested gecko (my first baby!), and decided then that I was done mixing. I'm sure there are some herps that would love a tank that size, maybe some larger treefrogs...Polypedates dennysi comes to mind. Maybe even a large group of thumbs...I'm sure someone with thumb experience could recommend a good group frog (maybe vents?). Good luck with your tank, that's a great size to work with, I can't wait to see it finished!


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

After doing some research i feel as though the humidity and temperature for those animals wouldnt so much be an issue. Im not saying im going to do this but i feel it would work in this tank because the dart frogs require a humidity level of around 80% and temp in the high 70s. The long tailed grass lizard requires around 70% humidity and a basking spot in the 80s and cool spot in the 70s. The pymgy chams require around 70% humidity and around 70 degree temp. The humidity towards the bottom of the tank can be kept down becuase of my water feature and fogger and the lower humidity in the top can be controled through the vented top and get more circulation. The lower higher temps can be controled via under the tank heater and higher basking spots can be controled with a ceramic heater at the top and lower temps in the middle of the tank and on the cool side. I would also seed this tank before hand with isos and springtails and constantly be throwing in crickets in all elevations of the tank so their will be an abundance of food. I feel as though there woulnt be much interaction between the different species if i only put one or two of each and they all have there own territory. This is just my take on this so if anyone has anyother opinions please chime in.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

If you have to mix, I would suggest researching Polychrus sp. lizards. I have some housed in a 36" tall vivarium that are doing very well with mint terribilis. They are a very slow moving, deliberate genus that acts very similarly to old world chameleons. Here's a video:

‪joshsfrogsvideos's Channel‬‏ - YouTube

I know many people overseas keep anoles in with dart frogs in larger vivariums, but I have no experience doing so.

Before you decide to mix, I would strongly suggest taking your time and doing proper research. it's not an easy task to meet the needs of multiple species with different husbandry requirements in one vivarium.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

yea its not at all a deffinate plan for this tank but i was just trying to discuss the logistics of those being housed together. if i was ever to decide to mix however i would make sure i do as much research as possible and record the parameters of every niche of the tank before even considering looking into housing multiple species in this enclosure.

btw what is the common name of the Polychrus sp. you are talking about and is it a common reptile to find? planning on waiting till the long island reptile expo in october to purchase any inhabitants.

also im having trouble putting up the pictures of my materials anytime i try to upload a picture it just keeps saying uploading please wait but never uploads


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

You will most likely put some effort into hunting down Polychrus sp. Common names include, bush anoles, monkey tail anoles, prehensile sharp-nosed anoles, and various combinations of the like. They are not easy animals to find, but make very interesting captives - well worth the effort of setting up a vivarium just for themselves, IMO.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

ok so heres what im working with, now that im on my work computer i can upload. sorry about the quality my phone camera isnt that good. once i start construction i will take pictures with my girls 14 mp camera


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

also i have a question about lighting.

I am planning on using my 36" dual strip perfecto lights for the back and perhaps an extra 20 gallon light i had laying around for towards the front of the tank. think this will be sufficient?


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Polychrus sp. show up every now and then on KS and are relatively inexpensive. They are awesome lizards, but I have heard that they are really hard to stabilize. 

Zach, any tips on getting them acclimated?


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

They are a true canopy lizard. They need a basking spot in the low 90s, and UVB. I've found the main issue is that they come in horribly emaciated. 1-2 soaks in lukewarm water a day and offering a wide variety of feeder insects seems to help - mine particularly like hornworms. They also need to be kept at a pretty high humidity with good ventilation. I keep mine in an enclosure with a full screen top and a humidifier, as well as a misting system.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Thanks a bunch Zach. Every time I see these guys offered I drool but have been scared off by what I had heard. Just might try to get a few now. Hijack over...


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

im sick and tired of these muh fu#*in' hijackers on mah muh fu#*in' thread. haha just kidding. lol feildnstream when you say KS what does that mean? 

anyway back to my build

I started yesterday buliding my false bottom and i like the way its comin out so far. i plan on having either two or three pumps/ filters in my tank for water features/water movement.

my plan is to have the main waterfall in the back left corner and have another drip wall type thing made with mopani wood to the right of that on the land portion goin down almost to the base of the main waterfall. i am unsure of what i am going to make the main waterfall out of at this point, i was thinking of using some of the rock background the tank came with or maybe a peice of wood or even Greatstuff or a combo of the above. any ideas on this one?

The peice of circular bark you see by the waterfall area will be used at the base of the fall to house my filter and pump discretely there but still allowing easy access. The main waterfall will be run off of a small submersible filter i have and the drip wall thing will be just a small pump that i still need to purchase. The water is pretty much going to go in a big counter clockwise circle around my whole tank. in order to have a current in the small stream going from the back waterfall to the front right of my tank i will use great stuff foam to seal on my sloped beach until i reach the far right of the tank where the false bottom has a little cut out in the beach slope. i will try to make this so the water can really get through to under the false bottom until it reaches the area to the right with the cut out. i will then have a 10 gallon stingray elite submersible hidden under the false bottom trap door to the right and have the outflow pointed towards the filter for the waterfall. this way there is a countinuous current of water going counter clockwise through the bottom of my tank. any one see any possible problems with this? 

if you are having trouble picturing this in my photos let me know and i will use the paint program to try to better illistrate the water flow.

i also included some pictures of the mock up where some of the wood is going to go in the GS background. i am going to try and incorperate the styrofoam rock background the tank came with into the GS backgound to give it some more shades and dimensions.

more pictures to come tomorrow after i start working on it some more after work later tonight. i will probably get to a better mock up stage tonight so i can here some comments/critisism before the plans for this project are more concrete.

anyway let me know what you think so far and please let me know any worries you might have about my set up.feel free to comment good or bad so i can get as much input as possible so i can make the best habitat for my animals.

once again sorry for the crappy pictures my gf's camera was dead when i was ready to take pictures and the lighting in that rooms sucks. dunno why they keep comin out crappy tho i have a droid and usually pictures come out great but i have been in a rush everytime iv been taking pictures tho. Expect better pictures in the future hah.

Thanks for reading/replying

-Sean


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

another couple questions id like to add.

1. anybody know of a good way to make the transistion between the falsebottom and my pond/stream area look real natural? i was thinking i would just take the little riverbank i made with the eggcrate at fill it with some great stuff, paint it and silicone some rocks and sand on there. i feel as though it is just to steap to use gravel or sand or anything and will just run down the bank and leave the top part exposed

2. i was considering using either clay or some sort of concrete now instead of the GS background. any input on how much easier or harder this is and if it will stand the test of time better then great stuff. i am really torn between these two because i think if done right clay looks alot better but i have never tried this method. also i didnt think about the added weight this will add on my tank. it already takes two people to move it and is pretty heavy and i still have to move it from my construction room to my bedroom after its done. keep in mind this is a very big tank so the amount of clay or concrete i would have to use would be rather large.

3. what really made me want to do this was the thread of martys re build on the corner tank. that concrete background came out AMAZING but i dont have an airbrush to paint it that good. even if i did pick one up though iv never used it and am afraid i will not be able to get the affects marty did. has any else ever used an air brush? is it easy to use?

4. if i were to scrap the GS background idea and use either clay or concrete which would be better? i think depending on how their done they both look just as good but theres two things holding me up from making a decision. concrete seems like it would last longer but will be harder to work with. clay seems to be easier to work with and i dont have to go through the whole curing process but seems as though it would deteriorate faster. what do you guys think?

5. another thing im worried about is keeping the tank ventilated but at the came time keep the himidity up. whats the best method for this?

6. also i didnt get a response for my lighting question so ill post again. do you think a dual strip 36" flourescent will be adequate for lighting in this beast? i have a 20 gallon single strip laying around that i can also use if need be. any input would be great


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

shibbyplustax said:


> another couple questions id like to add.
> 
> 1. anybody know of a good way to make the transistion between the falsebottom and my pond/stream area look real natural? i was thinking i would just take the little riverbank i made with the eggcrate at fill it with some great stuff, paint it and silicone some rocks and sand on there. i feel as though it is just to steap to use gravel or sand or anything and will just run down the bank and leave the top part exposed
> I always thought using peat covered great stuff looks the best when transitioning. If you use enough and do it right, it's very natural.
> ...


I hope this helps!
-William


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks johnnyrocks. I was thinking about doing the peat covered GS to transistion to the water so im glad to hear we are on the same page.

As for the drylock method i have done this before so i was thinking about going a different route but that gave me a good idea of drylocking the rock background that it came with so that its grey instead of tan colored. I have some extra drylock laying around too so that will work out. I was planning on cutting out some of the background and incorperating it into my foam background. I think i will end up just sticking with the great stuff and peat moss.

As for the build marty made i think we are thinking of two different people because the one im talking about used habacrete to make his background and it came out awsome. In fact now that i think about it, it was on a different site all together haha. It was on dartfrogz.com, heres the link 90 Gallon Rebuild - *pic heavy* - Dart Frog Forum on Husbandry and Habitat Information . If you get a chance go there, if you are not a member and cant see the pictures, join. Im tellin you its worth it, this tank came out so good.

Thanks for the reply


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

shibbyplustax said:


> Thanks johnnyrocks. I was thinking about doing the peat covered GS to transistion to the water so im glad to hear we are on the same page.
> 
> As for the drylock method i have done this before so i was thinking about going a different route but that gave me a good idea of drylocking the rock background that it came with so that its grey instead of tan colored. I have some extra drylock laying around too so that will work out. I was planning on cutting out some of the background and incorperating it into my foam background. I think i will end up just sticking with the great stuff and peat moss.
> 
> ...


Yes i'm a member on that board, but I like this one a bit better. Marty is on here too, and I got mixed up with another person that did a 90 corner tank with drylok and rock wall. I personally think marty could of done clay because his BG looks just like it, and habacrete, IMO, is almost impossible to get, and is WAY overpriced. Good luck though and i'm looking forward to more!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

shibbyplustax said:


> Thanks johnnyrocks. I was thinking about doing the peat covered GS to transistion to the water so im glad to hear we are on the same page.
> 
> As for the drylock method i have done this before so i was thinking about going a different route but that gave me a good idea of drylocking the rock background that it came with so that its grey instead of tan colored. I have some extra drylock laying around too so that will work out. I was planning on cutting out some of the background and incorperating it into my foam background. I think i will end up just sticking with the great stuff and peat moss.
> 
> ...


Oh and woops, I forgot to answer your fifth question, I knew I left something out! Here's how I make my screen vents, they come out great and only take about 1/2 an hour to make.http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63781-screen-vent-construction-how.html


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Yea i was unaware of how hard habacrete is to get a hold of, i guess i can forget that idea.

Thanks for the info on screen vents but the tank i have already has some vents in the front and a screen top. Maybe i should have been more specific. My concern is keeping the humidity up in this well ventilated tank. I was going to put glass on top of the screen to hold in humidity but am worried there wont be enough air circulation. If i use a fan to either suck out or blow in air on top will thatnjust suck all the humidity out? Will the only way to accomplish this be to put a fan inside the tank?

As for which board is better? I deff think this board is the best i posted the same stuff on other boards but have gotten little to no response. This site is much more informative also


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

When deciding on a background, keep in mind how hard it will be to take out. Clay should be the easiest to remove if you change your mind, say you decide to totally switch gears and make a collared lizard tank. GS can be easy to remove as well. I don't have any experience with concrete or epoxy backgrounds, but it seems that they may be harder to remove. With a tank this cool (and expensive) you don't wanna get halfway done and suddenly start regretting your decision. Why not try an easier, more removable background first...if you don't like it just rip it out and try again. Just some ideas...Good Luck!


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Yea im going to stick to the GS background with my own little twist  you bring up some good points tho. That is a big deciding factor in everything im doind in this tank. I dont want to drastically change this tank incase i decide to change directions.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

What I did to cover the weedblock/screen is I coated it heavily with silicone and pressed some peat moss onto it. it looks fairly decent...just wish I would have used brown instead of clear.

How do you plan on making a barrier so your substrate doesn't fall off into the water?


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

i have already put the weedblocker on top of my false bottom so the substrate wont fall through and if you take a look at the picture in my previous post, i let the eggcrate on the sides of my false bottom go up alittle higher then the top of the false bottom. i will cover this up with greatstuff to conseal it. This will act as alittle lip so the substrate doesnt fall into the water as my animals crawl in and out of it. i used greatstuff on the sloping banks to hide the egg crate. now that i think of it , it was kind of pointless to have used eggcrate on the sides of my false bottom because i just covered them up with greatstuff anyway. i could have just used styrofoam for the sides and skipped that whole step. anyway now that i did that the foam expanded alittle more then i wanted and it doesnt fit in my tank anymore. i guess im going to have to carve it up alittle. anyone know if carving the greatstuff that will be submerged will have an effect on its strength? i know that when you carve the skin off it is no longer closed cells. i am going to seal it with silicone reguardless but i wanna know if it may just fall apart after being underwater for a while.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

by the way i forgot to take pictures last night of my progress so i can upload them at work today, so sorry about that. I will take pictures before i start working on it today so you guys can see what i did yesterday and upload yesterdays and todays progress when i get to work tomorrow.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ugh so i guess i wont be posting new pictures of my progress tomorrow cause im re doing another false bottom. The foam expanded to much and it didnt fit in my tank so i carved but it looked like crap so i decided to scrap it. Im going to make the sides and river bank of my false bottom out of styrofoam this time so its easier to work with. I have friday sunday and possibly saturday off so i can get some real progress done. Came off to a rought start but expect pictures of some progress by the end of the weekend.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok so i guess this is an update on the progress i did this weekend. I made a new false bottom but this time the sides of it are made of styrofoam. I found it easier to work with and got some good rock effects using drylock and paint. I then sealed the side banks with silicone and sprinkles some sand and gravel here and there. I used a piece of eggcrate and weed blocker to make the entrance for water underneath the FB and not to allow animals there. One concern with this is that it might get clogged if some algae or something grows in there what do you guys think? I was thinkin even if that happened i can rip it out and replace it with fikter sponge or something. 

Another thing i got done is one of my water features. I used sprayfoam and some of the background the exo came with. I also used styrofoam to make a cave under the waterfall that can be viewed from the side of the tank. I also used styrofoam to make the pool atop the waterfall. I will be testing this tomorrow to see if the water flows where i want it to. After i got the waterfall into the shape i wanted i painted (so if i miss a spot with peat) the greatstuff and siliconed some coco/peat mix. I am going to make another water feature using the piece of mopani you see resting on the waterfall in the pictures. 

After i see if the waterfeatures will work will start on the background. I plan on putting a few pots in the wall and came up with the idea of glueing some corbark on them before putting them in the GS background. I got some airline tubing and covered with silicone and peat and IMO looks more realistic the the vines you buy in per stores. I will incorperate these into the background and also use them as drainage for background pots. I will also put a decent sized pot on top of the bark pictured in the right corner in the tank. I will be painting the outside of the tank by the FB and GS background to make it more pleasent looking.



Also, I want to included a airstone to keep my water oxygenated for fish, can i put it under the false bottom? I would thing the oxygen that may come up through the substrate above would help plants planted their but thats my opinion. What do you think?

Anyway feel free to give me some suggestions or comments and let me know if you see anything that could be problematic.



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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

I cant upload some pictures from my phone for some reason so will upload the rest tomorrow morning.


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## TLyons (May 7, 2011)

beautiful build so far. Me and you have done many of the same things, although I built ina 24x18x24 exoterra. I'm thinking about starting a new build, so thanks for all the ideas and info, much appreciated!


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## NickJR (Jul 28, 2011)

cant wait to see how it turns out


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Here are a few more pics, the ugliness of the viewable cave will be fixed by simply painting the outside of the tank where the false bottom and greatstuff are visable. I am going to need a hazmat crew to clean this room when im done lol.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok so i got both water features up and running tonight. They work good, the water is going where i want it to go, the only problem is that they are both arent using as much water as i wanted them to. I was planning on having the waterfall have a pretty strong flow but it is kind of just trickling down. The mopani water feature is almost at where i wanted it to be but still could be beefed up alittle. I guess i am going to have to get some bigger pumps or filters. Anyone know of a small strong submersable filter?

another problem is the weed blocker screen isnt as permiable as i wanted it to be. Any water that landed on there tended to just sit or make its way to the side of the false bottom. I was thinking i could just poke some holes in the weed blocker to give the water some more ways to get out. Or do you think i should just rip that out and put like a regular window screen that has bigger holes in there?


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

ok so since i didnt get any answers, i am just going to go with putting the airstone under the false bottom. If i am correct, i think this will benefit both the fish in the stream and the plants above the airstone.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

I got a new pump yesterday so i am going to test it out after work. if i get the water flow i want i will drain the tank and start on the background later tonight. i will post pictures of my progress tomorrow.

I also got my mist king in the mail yesterday and am very excited to set it up! i still have to go and get a peice of glass cut though before installing it into my tank. i just realized one of the sub contracters at work makes glass walls and doors for our showers and chances are they can do what i need and give me a good price for it and maybe even do it for free Do you guys think i should go completely glass on the top? if i do wind up housing a Long tailed grass lzard in this tank also i think i should atleast have a small vent at the top or maybe even go only half glass. what do you guys think?


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok so i liked how my water features were working so i got the GS background sprayed yesterday. i am just gonna put this one pic as an update. i was thinking about adding a few more pots to the sides of the tank and maybe adding a branch that goes from one side to the other side right across the middle. you cant really see all thats going on but i think this thing is going to look awesome once peat mossed up and planted. i will start using my girlfriends camera after this i promise lol.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok so this will be my last picture update before i plant this tank and take pictures with a real camera. If anyone sees anything problematic, please let me know to try and avoid future head aches.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

A few of those pics are sideways, im horrible at this lol.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

No comments/advice/questions/critisizm????? cmon i dont like talking to the wall.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

well honestly, its not a bad build thus far. you have decomposition in the grape wood, but that sometimes looks cool and is good for microf. growth. just keep going, it comes together in the end.... 

i need to stop comenting on other peoples posts and post the 5 build i have pictures of just sitting waiting to be posted


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

motydesign said:


> well honestly, its not a bad build thus far. you have decomposition in the grape wood, but that sometimes looks cool and is good for microf. growth. just keep going, it comes together in the end....
> 
> i need to stop comenting on other peoples posts and post the 5 build i have pictures of just sitting waiting to be posted


yea im pretty happy with it thus far, its really hard to tell in the pictures because everything in the background is pretty much the same color and my camera sucks but i feel it has alot of depth to it. i think it will look *alot better* once planted and will be alittle easier to make out all the nooks and crannys in pictures. im hoping the grapewood wont be too much of a problem for me. although i dont plan on putting anything in here for a few months so worst comes to worst, if i see it deteriorating already i can switch it up with some more suitable wood before adding any inahbitants.
*
get on posting those then!!!* hah i always love to see a good build log for inspiration and future ideas.


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## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

what kind of pump are u using for your water feature? im looking for one myself and cant seem to find one that is strong enough to pump the water up 15-20inchs


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

davidadelp said:


> what kind of pump are u using for your water feature? im looking for one myself and cant seem to find one that is strong enough to pump the water up 15-20inchs


im using the repti flo 350 and it does pretty good. the only thing is, it seems to be pretty loud. im not sure if something is wrong with it or its just like that normally but im going to move my substrate and get to the pump underneath my false bottom to inspect it one day this week.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

i am looking into getting a group of either leucs, azureus or auratus. which ones do you think will do best in this tank? im open to other frog selections too but keep in mind im fairly new to pdf's. iv kept all sorts of other herps but am just venturing into the dart frog hobby.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Heres a picture update of my tank planted and grown in alittle




























The mopani is holding up pretty well



























The two inhabitants (still not sure of the sex)





















































Found this while i was taking pics, anyone know what kind of worm that is and if its harmful to my frogs?

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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

Good looking viv....Can't say I support the mixing though.


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## jon57 (Sep 26, 2010)

Its turned out really nicely, good job.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok so today I officially finished ripping this tank apart and cleaning / sterilizing it. Be on the look out for the re-build, I am planning on giving it a more tiered effect and less of a 3 sided box background.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

The new build thread can be found here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85588 

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