# whites tree frog face scratched?



## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

hello! sorry to intrude on the dart frog forum again but i feel like this is where i get the best information!

this morning i noticed Sticky had some black marks on his face. i’m thinking they might be scratches? they must have appeared over night because i didn’t see them before i went to bed.

here’s the last before picture i have of him (from the 19th)









and here’s a picture from this morning (the 22nd)









other than this he seems to be doing fine. i’m wondering if i should quarantine him until this heals or if he needs antibiotics or anything?

if anyone has any information that can help i’d be very grateful!! thank you!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Yes they look like abrasions. Superficial scratches on whites will look dark or slate grey. Then an aggregate of melanocytes can appear and accentuate it.

The easiest thing to get is neosporin without analgesic, for Small Area abrasions, i prefer ophthalmic version but like silver sulfadiazine cream it requires a prescription, "usually".

You need to find out where he is crowding into or under that is causing him to self injure. 

You need to look and feel all interior surfaces and go over mentally his perching and sheltering habits.

You also must determine if he is too hot. Especially at night.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Dont over treat the frog. Removing the cause is the most important action.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

J, i would check how close artifacts are to the screen. Off the top.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> J, i would check how close artifacts are to the screen. Off the top.


thank you!! i’ll pick up some pain reliever free neosporin tonight. should i apply this once a day?

i’m thinking maybe it was the hide from the first picture that gave him the scratches. i know he was having trouble getting out of there that night and it’s pretty close to the lid too. i’ll take it out and look for a smoother perch for him.

my room is about 70 degrees F at night so i think his heat should be alright.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Superficial scratches very often heal quickly and very completely in a healthy, feeding frog.

A small amount cant hurt, i cant really see it that clearly. But if its superficial with no blood or pinkness just small amount. Dont get any near his nares as that would be more stressful than the scratches.

The most important thing is to make sure he has a safe, healthy environment. Clean water, proper temps, personally i keep whites in the mid 70s at night, warmer in the day with an unheated zone - Day, and night. Temperatures are more than a number. How they are applied and how they change and how they are different in various areas of the environment are involved.

Perhaps you should provide another front and above photos of the new set up. Perhaps the vet you went to recently would be available per email to look at the photos and advise as well.

Be careful of commercial hides and cage furniture. They all must be inspected for safety before animal contact. There are No controls and i have personally known them to cause harm.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

i’ll try giving the vet a call tomorrow!

here’s a picture of the set up right now. it’s still pretty bare right now, but i was going to add a few more plants soon.

















i can replace the hide tonight! are there any other problem areas you can see?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Is the cricket bin always in the frog enclosure?


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Is the cricket bin always in the frog enclosure?


ya usually. i open the container at night so they can eat


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

hellooofrog said:


> ya usually. i open the container at night so they can eat


That is a smoking gun right there. Don't house prey where the intended predator can see it. It is just stressful for everyone involved, and those Kritter Keepers have sharp edges, and vents that catch toes.

The crickets should be dusted with an all in one supplement immediately before feeding and offered in a measured quantity.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> That is a smoking gun right there. Don't house prey where the intended predator can see it. It is just stressful for everyone involved, and those Kritter Keepers have sharp edges, and vents that catch toes.
> 
> The crickets should be dusted with an all in one supplement immediately before feeding and offered in a measured quantity.


alright i can take the lid off at feeding time. they usually finish all the crickets in there so it’s not an everyday thing but i’ll take the container out from now on!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

No, no. Do not Feed bugs in a transparent container.

I remember describing very carefully how to make a proper feeding station.

We cannot help you if you dont consider specific directions as specific.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> No, no. Do not Feed bugs in a transparent container.
> 
> I remember describing very carefully how to make a proper feeding station.
> 
> We cannot help you if you dont consider specific directions as specific.


alright i tried putting the crickets in a pot before and the frogs didn’t go after them but i’ll try again


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Crock. Not metal pot. I suggested to put the crickets in a crock. 

A standard crock about 9 inches across. This has worked for 100s of Whites Tree Frog set ups. 

Im suggesting it because it works and your creative choices have not. I am sorry to be blunt.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

We would like to help, i know how easy it is to become attached to these frogs, and you are willing to invest in a nice sized enclosure and got arav veterinary treatment when needed.

The wide feeding crock is an easily duplicated-minus-variables solution to feeding arboreal treefrogs and other herps also, that has been replicated many times in client set ups, boarding situ. 

If you wish for help, you need to decide where you will receive it. If you go to a pet store and talk to a guy there that says do it some other way, thats fine, then follow them. But you have to decide. Otherwise working with you within a modality is kind of moot.

I am not going to make a giant post detailing every aspect of changes i would make in your enclosure. However i do have some homework for you. When you can, search Cork Bark. Learn about this incredibly useful, safe naturalistically tactile material that comes in every formation that would be appreciated by your frogs. 

The thin curtain of plastic plant is useless decor. Replacing it with long securely moored cork shards and more branches would be better. 

I use bamboo too, with silicone suction cups on each end running the length of the enclosure. They run across all aspects and also under their lighting resources. They are slightly angled to insure solid seat of pressure. 

That is all i will share right now. Research Cork Bark. Please realize that not any old cork bark piece will work. You have to look at the enclosure and get the shape and size you need to make the enclosure work for the frogs.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I dont mean to hard drive it, but concentrate on the cork. Not the bamboo. Bamboo poles are tricky to secure. And please - PLEASE - dont be tempted to get any "spring action" fake bamboo products. Just learn about cork bark. What it is and where you can get the kind of pieces you need. Which are long shards and WIDE ROUNDS.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> I dont mean to hard drive it, but concentrate on the cork. Not the bamboo. Bamboo poles are tricky to secure. And please - PLEASE - dont be tempted to get any "spring action" fake bamboo products. Just learn about cork bark. What it is and where you can get the kind of pieces you need. Which are long shards and WIDE ROUNDS.


honestly thank you so much!!! i see a lot of different cork bark options online, but to pick the right ones for my enclosure i’m thinking i should go to my reptile store and see them in person. it looks like my store has zoo med brand cork bark. do you think that would be alright?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

It depends on how tall the encl is and what your strategy is.
Its the shape and size.

Long Slats and Rounds with an inside cross measure of like, 6 to 8 " close to the faux log thing you have.

You probably wont find long Slats unless you order them from a cork supplier.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Long, like boards not pre packaged Flats. Clarifying


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Long, like boards not pre packaged Flats. Clarifying


i picked up a couple of pieces from the store just to get a better idea of what i want to do with the tank. i got this wide round








it leans against the back wall, but there’s some space behind it. i’m wondering if it’s safe that they can crawl behind it or would it possibly scratch them?

i’m thinking of doing something like this








is background tile necessary or just an aesthetic choice?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

It can help hold on to a little moisture from misting. And can make the walls climbable. 

Whites are a dry frog but because we apply supplemental heat in a closed space all moisture can be sucked out of the space really fast.

My pet whites dont have a backgtound though and they're 21, 22 yrs old. 

Make sure you go over the cork for sharp areas. Just file them down. 

I try to avoid places they could scrunch. Its just how i do it. Either its flush, i fill gap with something, or i make enough play.

Its a good round though.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Zoo med pieces can be expensive but they have a nice, clean product. 

Grapevine is nice too for them. You can make a kind of jungle gym that fills the open space values with perching and activity opportunity.

I want to commend you on the nice big enclosure itself. Very generous and full of possibilities. 

Your environment will evolve with time. There is no need to hurry to get everything done at once.

The important thing to remember is that everything inside the enclosure will be encountered by the frogs, over and over again, unlike hazardous or adverse contacts in native circumstances, and that Whites Tree Frogs are heavy bodied, vivacious, and like, fling themselves around with force. They also pull those tummies over edges as they locomote, and their will can surpass the size of gaps and openings and feeding triggers.

I had to move my dubia bin because though it was partially opaque, one of my guys in particular would sit in corner and stare out in its direction at the dubia shapes occasionally appearing at the wall of the bin.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

* Ethical Pet Stoneware Crock

You have room for it and nicely finessed feeding station for arboreals doesn't _take space; it prioritizes it._

Food, feeding and associated behavior. These are crucial accommodations. Its a primary husbandry investment and can also be made into an enrichment feature beyond just a bowl where the crickets are dropped in.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> * Ethical Pet Stoneware Crock
> 
> You have room for it and nicely finessed feeding station for arboreals doesn't _take space; it prioritizes it._
> 
> Food, feeding and associated behavior. These are crucial accommodations. Its a primary husbandry investment and can also be made into an enrichment feature beyond just a bowl where the crickets are dropped in.


thanks so much! once again you are a lifesaver!

i ordered the crock and i’ll slowly work on reorganizing the tank


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

You are most welcome. We might as well admit that these guys are excruciatingly adorable. 

Every thing they do is charming.

You can create a nice little deck area around the feeding crock H.F. and make it interesting and comfortable for them.

As an arboreal keeper using natural materials you will soon collect a selection of useful tools. 

A nice set of Files would be a good place to start. Dremels have their place but files just hit the spot w me.


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