# Tadpole has front leg, now what?



## Noxz

1 out of the 4 of my tadpoles recently punched one of it's front legs through the sack and is able to move it freely, the other is still in the sack. I was told by the local breeder I got these from that after they get their front legs, to stick a rock in to let them climb around on it, and that they will stop eating as they absorb their tail. I have seen other people on this forum who made a chamber that is more long ways, which has some dirt(ABG) on one end and water at the other... is this what I should do? when do I stop feeding it tadpole food and I start up on fruit fly cultures?

little arm:


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## SnakePaparazzi

I've got a setup that has a small water area with a ramp leading up to an area that has been sectioned off. I created a false bottom and seeded with springs and added leaf litter. The newly morphed frog won't eat until the tail is absorbed. I created this setup so I would be able to let them morph and have a food supply when they're ready to eat. I know of mane breeders who use sterility boxes propped up on one end to allow for there to be 2/3 of the box that are dry.











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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.022781,-117.120777


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## Pumilo

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/br...first-babies-hand-holding-commencing-now.html


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## Noxz

The ramp idea is what I saw before.. I am just days away from siliconing my dual 25gal (joined, so one 50gal split in half, basically) and to stick it into my bookshelf. I can get both flies and springtails from the breeder. ...The problem with sticking new froglets in such a big vivarium initially is that it is hard for them to catch food at the start? when they are small.... Is it alright to feed right in front of them?
I do have some smaller tuperwares that I can use as they morph...
It took a long time to get to this point, I htink because of winter and multiple times being brought to the local reptile show.. this guy was hatched on 9/6 ... going to aproach 6 months here soon... I got them in the middle of january. One other form the same clutch, starting toshow signs of front elgs growing, the other two were upwards of a month apart, and they atleast have back legs.


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## Noxz

The other arm popped out! I'll get the larger tupperware going tomorrow, but I dont have springtails just yet...
There's a problem with the other tadpole in the same clutch as this one... twice now today I have found it upside down, not moving, a quick finger touch to it and it flips around and starts swimming, but has been unresponsive when shaking the jar, the others swim immediately upon just lifting the jar, sometimes even looking at them, but that wont work if the dude's eyes are looking downward... I can say that about 2 weeks ago there was a slight accident and that one ended up outside of the original container, thus why I am now using glass canning jars... but he wasnt out for more than 30 seconds tops, but he might have gotten shooken up really bad, but this is the first day that it has displayed any sort of symptoms... how he does move when I get him to, it seems like he want s to use his front arms, which are not yet developed all the way... but is that any reason to float upside down? I now have him in shallow water to try and prevent drowning


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## Noxz

I thought a pic of both arms would be appreciated... the other troubling tadpole was responsive this time to the flash when taking the picture... so that's good... I think that it's getting used to the feeling of front arms in sacs? but why upside down? troubling me too...

...2 front legs (or is it arms?)


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## Noxz

good news, that troubling one is still alive this morning, and right side up.. phew?


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## Noxz

NO! ... I came back from work, just 7 hrs after I leave, and the trouble one is still alive, but the one with both arms is no longer moving at all... what's happening? I am changing out all of the water immediately... maybe it is the heat?


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## Noxz

I have attributed the cause to be the heat... it reached 50 F outside today (February, in ohio, are you kidding me???) ... the water in two others are measuring over 75 F... ugh, I feel like crying


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## Noxz

it could have also been airborne chemicals.. they are working on studios very close to mine, on my same floor... I just complained to the landlord's right hand man, to get a better seal on my door...
the one troubled tadpole looks like he is responding very strangely, maybe bran damage already...

I buried the other out by a tree


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## Pumilo

Bummer, that sucks. Can't be the temp though. Nothing wrong with 75 F.


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## Reef_Haven

So, what did you do for the one that died, to make it easy for him to get out of the water?
Sounds like you haven't created a morph out container yet. also sounds like you don't have springs or flies yet as well???


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## Lifeguard

Sorry to hear about the bad luck. Hope you can figure out what the true cause was.


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## Ed

Pumilo said:


> Bummer, that sucks. Can't be the temp though. Nothing wrong with 75 F.


Doug is right. It isn't the temperature. It wouldn't even be temperature if it got to 80 F (or even a little higher). 

The whole scenario is problematic between the age of the tadpoles since it supposedly hatched in the beginning of Sept and was brought to multiple shows between that time and when you got it in January.... 

Without getting testing done on the tadpoles, any thoughts on why it died that are outside of normal husbandry methods (for example temperature) are going to be simple conjecture. 

For example, ranavirus infections can cause tadpoles to have issue righting themselves and subclinical infections can be lethal when the tadpole begins to metamorph (as can chytrid). Without testing, there isn't even any way to know if the tadpoles are carriers or not hence my point about conjecture. 

Ed


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## Noxz

Thanks for these responses guys... 
I was planning on making my morphing container as soon as I got back from work, and right now it's a co-op position, so I'm done at noon (leaving to there shortly after 7am) ... I had stopped at lowes to get a caulking gun to silicon the vivarium together, which now is looking good... but once I got back the bad news was noticed...

that guy's water might have been hotter than 75, but i dont think >=80...
I think that if I do decide to apply heat (dropped to 28 F outside today) that I will need to do weekly water changes, to prevent bacteria from growing too much.

I will also look into sealing off my studio from the others (this entire place is an old brick elementary converted into artist studio space... so just think the amount of chemicals we have here) and with the renovating everyone is doing. Basically more paint than anything.... I am obviously not ruling the heat as the only cause..

I am not discouraged at all, a little bummed out though. I called the breeder up and asked if he was available(to get another tadpole+springtails+fruitflies) yesterday since I was going to be around that part of town, and this is one of his vacation weekends, which I guess he never has as he is always doing/promoting reptile shows throughout the year.... I will be back down there today (in an hour or so) and again on Tuesday, so maybe one of these days will work out for him...


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## Ed

Noxz said:


> that guy's water might have been hotter than 75, but i dont think >=80...
> I think that if I do decide to apply heat (dropped to 28 F outside today) that I will need to do weekly water changes, to prevent bacteria from growing too much.


Actually you want to encourage the growth of the bacteria that digests the waste of the tadpoles and excess food since ammonia is toxic to the tadpoles. If you have a good biofilm growing then that is actually good for the tadpoles. The tadpoles will actually graze on the aufwuchs as an additional protien source. 
This is exactly the same as cycling a fish tank. 

Ed


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## Noxz

Ed said:


> Actually you want to encourage the growth of the bacteria that digests the waste of the tadpoles and excess food since ammonia is toxic to the tadpoles. If you have a good biofilm growing then that is actually good for the tadpoles. The tadpoles will actually graze on the aufwuchs as an additional protien source.
> This is exactly the same as cycling a fish tank.
> 
> Ed


Right, I do an under-gravel filter for one of my turtles (the one that i have here, I need to build him a long terrarium next) so I know about such bacteria

a lot of my misting supplies arrived today(custom configuration/hacks)...


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