# Rare pumilio



## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

I was just wondering if anyone has any RARE pumilio. I'm not talking about reds, basti, blue jeans, almirante, green, etc. I'm talking about solid yellow, white and black (spotted), gold dust etc. Things you see on world wide fauna ya know?

Everett[/b]


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

I have pictures of many 'rare' forms from the wild if that's what you wanted. But if it was a waiting list to get on, I don't keep any frogs. 
j

p.s. There's still some pictures for sale from NWFF. Maybe eventually Corey will put the ones available for sale on the site...


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

He ships too (hopefully).

s :wink: 


Yeager said:


> ... p.s. There's still some pictures for sale from NWFF. Maybe eventually Corey will put the ones available for sale on the site...


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

If you do have these "rare" pums, make sure to also post your email addy, AIM handle, and phone number so every member can email, IM, and call you to get put on your list


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2004)

Yeah, I can totally ship pictures. I can even sign and number them if that's your thing... Pieces of my hair are still for sale too I believe... 
j


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

*Justin's available pics*

Geez Justin, can't you wait for me to get back in the States first? I'm still in Costa Rica!!! :shock: 

For everyone else... yeah, I'll post the pics for sale on Justin's site after I return (I'll be back in two days).

As for rare pums... I know a couple of people who have the morphs you listed (and a couple rare morphs you didn't) but there are a couple problems. One is that these people only have one frog or one sex... so no babies anytime soon. I believe that's the case with the black and whites. Another is that the people who ARE breeding these are only offering to customers that have bought the more 'common' pums from them, people they know are advanced enough to have them. My last point is that none of the people who ARE working with them want to advertise this fact!

I don't like the lable 'common' for any morph of pumilio... none of them are common. These are just the most often available, the best pums to start with, the most publicized. I kinda go with the thinking that if you are ready to have the rarest of the rare, you'll know where to get them, and those people will be willing to sell them to you. It sounds mean, but that's just how I feel about it.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Yea I understand what all of you are saying but I was mostly lookin for pictures. I'm thrilled with my Almirante and won't be buying any other frogs till i get them and my leucs to breed.

Everett

PS would make it longer but i'm getting honked at to leave


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Gold Dust Basti


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Now that's what I'm talking about!


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2004)

Hi,

this is an other pic of this kind of bastimentos










You can visit these european webpages:
http://www.tropical-experience.nl/pumilio.php
http://www.dendrobatiden-db.de/show.cgi ... umilio&c=D


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Thanks uban awesome sites


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2004)

*While on the subject...*

While on the subject. Here' a pretty interesting little pumilio. Can anybody guess the morph of this frog?


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## rompida (Mar 15, 2004)

My guess would be one of the bastimentos morphs. There's alot of variation of the pumilio in Bastimentos Town.





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## Guest (Aug 21, 2004)

I would agree with rompida and guess Basti.
Derek, very cool looking frog.

Rich


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

hmm I would have to say Basti as waell because of the little spots on the legs


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## droseraman (Jun 17, 2004)

I agree basti.


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## Guest (Aug 21, 2004)

*Close....*

I though a few people would suspect that the frog was from the area around Basti town. There is certainly great variation among the frogs there and all over Bastimentos. However, I would argue that the locality descriptions for this island are not necessarily accurate. But, that is probably for another post… In any case this frog isn't from Bastimentos. Any more guesses?


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

What's the website with the map of Panama and the picture of all of the Pumilio that are local to that spot?


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## droseraman (Jun 17, 2004)

Hey i think its natureweb.nl there is a link too the site here on dendroboard.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

Solarte? Nancy.


Rich


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## JWerner (Feb 17, 2004)

How about the province de photoshop?


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

I checked out the book Jewels of the Rainforest - Poison Frogs of the Family Dendrobatidae by Jerry Walls. While the book is old (it was published in 1994 I believe) and contains some photo mislabeling, it does have many great pictures, especially of rare pumilio that are not seen in the hobby today. Worth checking out.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

I love my Jewels of the Rainforest book. Awesome pictures but the info is very old and out dated. I like the comment about vents being hard to care for and breed .


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## rompida (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Close....*



DerekRader said:


> I though a few people would suspect that the frog was from the area around Basti town. There is certainly great variation among the frogs there and all over Bastimentos. However, I would argue that the locality descriptions for this island are not necessarily accurate. But, that is probably for another post… In any case this frog isn't from Bastimentos. Any more guesses?



I can verify that the whitish pumilio with spots can definitely be found in Basti town. I saw them behind the lodge I stayed in while there last year. I do agree that there is some mislabeling of pumilio though, especially with the most recent importation of the green with blue legs pumilio. But back to your frog....So.... its not bastimentos. Is it a mainland morph or archipelago morph? Come on, just a hint.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

*Pumilio*

My guess is that this frog is located on Cayo Nancy.
Mark


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

rompida said:


> ....especially with the most recent importation of the green with blue legs pumilio.


So it's not Bruno??

SB


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Is it albino? Then my guess would be either Shepard or Colon (I can't remember which one right off the top of my head).


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2004)

*Pumilio*

This frog is white with orange, which is a variable of orange and white. I believe most of the orange morphs I have seen are from Nancy!
Mark


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

*Rich and Mark have got it...*

Rich and Mark are correct the frog is actually from Cayo Nancy (Solarte, Hospital Point). 

Insider info Mark?


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

Here's a picture of what you expect to see on Nancy.









This one was taken near Salt Creek on Bastimentos.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

*Pumilio*

Cayo Nancy is my favorite Pumilio morph, would love to acquire some someday. Be nice to see the "farm" expanded to said localities. Although the white frog is nice I would take the orange with white feet and belly over it any day. Funny how the Bastis with no spots, basically a red/orange with white underneath do not have the same effect on me. I could be dead wrong but it seems like true orange does not occur in many areas. Just a lucky guess Derek.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

The Nancies are very cool. Large for D. pumilio with , obviously, great pattern variants. Bold also. Most that are orange have solid orange bellies, or at least more orange than white. I was told that this is one way to help differentiate between the Bastis and Nancies. Derek, that is a very cool looking frog. Are you working with that frog presently?


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## rompida (Mar 15, 2004)

I don't think there is a way to differentiate between Cayo Nancy and Bastimentos. There are populations of Basti that look identical to the Cayo Nancy. Also...many of the Cayo Nancy have a white belly. I also love the Cayo Nancy morph, but have seen some Bastis that would fool you. 

I heard that all of Cayo Nancy was at one time forested and cut to the ground in search of possible pirate treasure (no, really). I imagine it would be hard for pumilio to thrive on a barren island. Makes me wonder if the Cayo Nancy pumilio were transplants from Isla Basti at some point. 


and.... if it weren't confusing enough. There are some pumilio on Bastimentos, near Salt Creek on the path to Playa Largo that supposedly look identical to a population of pumilio on Isla Cristobal.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

Wow! Cool.

Rich


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

Rompida is dead on. There are pumilio all over Bastimentos (and other islands) that look like the "populations" on other islands. More so, I am aware of at least one well known breeder who routinely produces and markets "Cayo Nancy" froglets from his Bastimentos adults.


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## Guest (Aug 23, 2004)

Wow! Not cool.


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## rompida (Mar 15, 2004)

so, with the pumilio that are coming in now I would say the same problem. O.K.... I'll give you Almirante. That I can buy. But... the "Bruno" could be from one of several places. Isla Popa, Chiriqi Grande, Bruno, or any number of places on the mainland where they haven't made roads yet. I don't think we'll ever truly know where hobby pumilio come from unless they are collected by hobbyists. We're the only ones that care.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

To be honest I'm starting to have second thoughts about the Almirante. Go to the following site and look at the pix of the Man Creek morph and the Almirante. 

http://www.dendrobatiden-db.de/show.cgi?a=Dendrobates&B=pumilio&c=D

My frogs look more like Man Creek that what they have pictured as Almirante.

Again, without knowing where they were collected it's anyone's guess.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

*Pumilio*

I only know of 3 people in the US that have true Cayo Nancy's, 2 on the west coast and one here in Florida. I am sure there are others I am unaware of but what was said earlier is true, unless you collected them yourself...who knows. I saw Glenn had a lot of frogs that were solid red with white feet, these were not Cayo Nancy's, my guess is there are few people out there that do not have what they think they have.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

The Nancies that we are working with were WC, hand collected on Isle Solarte.

Rich


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Unless they were collected by you specifically... no way to be sure.

That goes for the rest of them too.

I'm curious how they were "hand caught" if there have been no exports in quite awhile?

s


The ReturnOfJ105 said:


> The Nancies that we are working with were WC, hand collected on Isle Solarte.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

They were hand caught by a professor at MSU working with the Smithsonian with all the necessary documentation.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

I know the professor who collected them personally. They are Nancies.

Rich


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Both Fryes posting at once! Pretty impressive.

I was just curious how they got out of the country. I figured it had to be legit if you were talking about it here.

s


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2004)

You heard it here first. All of the D. pumilio on our site have possative local IDs.

Rich


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

Thats awesome, musta taken alot of work to get all that done, mad props to you guys for the hard work!


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Is it possible for anyone to get permits to bring Pumilio back from Panama? I know Costa Rica won't let you but what would that require and all, just curious.

Everett


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## Guest (Aug 27, 2004)

Everett,
Without starting a thread on CITES, ( more than one touching on this exists ) I can say that no, "anyone" can not just apply for papers to bring D. pumilio back from Panama. These are wild caught. Again, the professor who collected many of the D. pumilio we are working with, was working through/with the Smithsonian.

Rich


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Oh ok. So he has the institute back him up or something? I've always thought it'd be fun to go down and bring back a pair of really cool lookin pums. Oh well, I can always dream .


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

*pum's*

Here's a slight direction change or should I say return to the subject. Included in my signature is a pumilio that I have no clue as to its morphotype. It looks rare to me, but who knows? Anyone?

The venter is the same color as the dorsum but it has some black and a few sporadic white "veins" of color. I am still stumped as to what it is.

Justin


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2004)

Justin, where did this frog come from? Male or Female?


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2004)

Justin,
Since you posted it here too I can kill two birds with one stone and not reply to your email... I think that may be from Costa Rica. There is a population like it that is near BriBri. They're real orangy like that. I would say it's not a Cayo Nancy because of the underside coloration. I still wouldn't rule out the hybrid possibility though....
j


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

*pumilio*



Yeager said:


> Justin,
> Since you posted it here too I can kill two birds with one stone and not reply to your email... I think that may be from Costa Rica. There is a population like it that is near BriBri. They're real orangy like that. I would say it's not a Cayo Nancy because of the underside coloration. I still wouldn't rule out the hybrid possibility though....
> j


Yeager,

Ah, laziness. I forgot that I had this photo and it is better than the one I sent you. Anyway, I was told that it was a Costa Rican "blue jeans" but the color is just way off. The more pum photos I look at the more I consider that it is a hybrid, but then again...who knows? I'll try and take some good venter photos and send them your way.

Derek- it is a male and his call is a nice soft buzz. The bugger calls all day and even at night sometimes. 

Justin


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## rompida (Mar 15, 2004)

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a blue jeans. Have you ever seen some long, long term captives? The red kinda washes out, just like bastis do.


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## Guest (Aug 29, 2004)

Well this could be true, but the legs are comletely that red color. I'm still of the opinion of that one locale in CR or hybrid. I do agree though that long long term frogs I've seen at the NAIB were faded-- almost brown.
j





rompida said:


> I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a blue jeans. Have you ever seen some long, long term captives? The red kinda washes out, just like bastis do.


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

Well, I can rule out age as this guy came to me as a subadult. He nearly doubled his size before he started calling.

Justin


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

*Basti morph*

I'd never seen this variant before. I thought it was interesting, hope it hasnt been posted before.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

That's an awesome frog, both of them. I was just wondering, while in the wild, is there much hybridization? You always hear of pumilio in large colonies in Panama and Costa Rica. That is one cool pum tho  almost metallic. The seccond one could be blue jeans w/ spots or blue jeans and basti mix or a basti or almirante or almirante basti mix :shock:

Everett


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2004)

To be honest, we don't know. Kyle Summers did a study on it comparting two islands populations-- to sum it up very generally, they prefer their own type. I'll be focusing on one island's population and determining their mate selection for part of my masters thesis (starting as soon as those frogs get here).
j


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Hey Justin what field are you mastering in, what is the specific name? I am starting to look at job options now and I would like to encorperate exotic animals in whatever I do (Vet, field study, etc).
Everett


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## Marcus (Apr 18, 2004)

first picture looks a Nancy to me....eastern part of Isla Solarte. The pumilio are less orange there and almost yellow.

The second picture looks like a 'hybrid' ...central Isla Solarte x pumilio Isla Bastimentos. In central Isla Solarte the pumilio's have very small dots. The most pumilio's we found on the western part doesn't have these small dots.
But again strange things can happen...we found in the central part of Isla Solarte 'Nancy' pumilio's with purple legs.

pic of a 'yellow' pumilio from the eastern part of nancy.










pic is taken in a terri. sometimes the light gives another colour to the frog. 
For example; 
The blue pumilio's from Darkland. They are darkblue if you see them in real but on pics they are nice blue and you think..wow that's the one I must have...so don't always go for the frog on the pic..they may be 'different' in real.


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2004)

Hi,

a brother went to panama in august. It seems he had chance to find a special population on bastimentos island:
http://www.dendrogrove.com/autre/index. ... tre=panama


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## rompida (Mar 15, 2004)

I saw what he was calling a new morph, but I'm not convinced that it should be considered one. I saw tons of variation from one end of that island to the other. I hiked the length of Isla Bastimentos, and I still haven't seen or heard anyone mention that "secret new morph" that I found. :wink:


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

I wanna go to Panama sooo bad!!!! Oh well it'll happen I guess ....Just bored and lookin at photos.


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## AlexanderStubbs (Feb 18, 2004)

Also, pumilio just like the one that says "San Christobal" on Patrick's site are all over bastimentos near salt creek. I did not find any of this type on Christobal, the ones there (that I saw) had blue feet and a red body.

Alexander

http://www.saurian.net/


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## rompida (Mar 15, 2004)

YES!!! I was wondering who else knew about that morph near salt creek! Nobody seems to believe that the grey leg pumilio is from salt creek. If you want to know what Isla San Cristobal pumilio look like, take a look at my avatar. I took the picture while on that island, even have GPS coordinates for the spot.


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## AlexanderStubbs (Feb 18, 2004)

The different bastis are really neat, as you move closer to red frog beach they get larger spots and more red on the legs. That is strange, the ones I saw on Christobal were bright red with blue feet. Email me at [email protected] for pics.

Alexander


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

Hi,

it seems he "found" this red form on just one area of the island, where all frogs look like this. I will ask him to translate his text.. because he wants info and opinions..


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## AlexanderStubbs (Feb 18, 2004)

Here is a picture of the pumilio found around Salt Creek. http://www.frognet.org/gallery/album55/bastigo


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