# Mixing species?



## a-ha (Jun 20, 2012)

I wasn’t sure where to put this so I’m writing in here. 

I am having trouble finding a good thread that goes over reasons to not mix species. I don’t mean different species of darts but I mean darts with day geckos or other non dart type of animals. I have some people saying they are going to mix peacock day geckos with some dart frog species and I said that I was against it and they want to know why. I’m having a hard time to explain in terms that people will understand. 

Their main argument is that they have similar climates and habitats so it’s fine. I tried to say it’s more complicated than that but I can’t really explain. Also they claim that since both the geckos and frogs have been out of the rainforest and in a viv for many generations it’s fine to keep them together. I think this is wrong but I’m not sure how to explain why. 

Their tank would be a 3 foot by 3 foot but I’m not sure about the heigh as they haven’t told me the height. 

Any help or input would be greatly appreciated. Maybe nothing actually is wrong but I want to make sure as to me, the animals come first.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

If you're having trouble finding it I'm predicting you're not looking very hard.

There are at least six or seven threads in this Group that go through all of the reasons why you shouldn't do this. Keep looking, you'll find them.

s

Mixing Frogs


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Here's another search term combination that yields a gold mine:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1......0i71j33i22i29i30j33i299j33i160.duRkxTJ9gtk

Be warned that often enough when someone announces 'I'm gonna do X' where 'X' is something controversial, they may well be looking for something that is less like reasons and more like a confrontation. Actually, this may be the case almost all the time, since people who have enough experience to be safely mixing animals like that (a) know about the technical details of how to pull this off safely, and (b) know enough not to announce it.


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## Tanks (Jan 14, 2019)

I would say no to a community herp tank..especially this combo and in this small of a tank. Day geckos are diurnal, so are dart frogs..more of a chance of them coming in contact with each other. Day Geckos are also fairly active and can be pretty territorial as well, especially amongst their own species, and peacock geckos can be 3” to 6” full grown. The frogs would most likely be hiding most of the time and not get proper amounts of food. Day Geckos also like it slightly warmer than most dart frogs and need a basking spot in the high 80°s to low 90°s...which could keep a sealed vivarium too hot for darts. 

There’s also the possibility of spreading disease or illness to tank inhabitants. The additional bio-load to the tank can cause bacterial blooms, Cyanobacteria, algae outbreaks or excessive plant growth, especially with higher lighting. 

While this can probably all be done in a very large tank..like 200+, adding more than one species just adds more trouble and stress for what it’s worth, for the owner and the animals. Zoos don’t even keep community herp tanks..and if they do, they’re probably massive. Good luck with convincing your friend! 🙂


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## a-ha (Jun 20, 2012)

Scott said:


> If you're having trouble finding it I'm predicting you're not looking very hard.
> 
> There are at least six or seven threads in this Group that go through all of the reasons why you shouldn't do this. Keep looking, you'll find them.
> 
> ...



Hi Scott, thanks for the reply! I should have been more specific in asking about completely different species like in the case I’m in with a day gecko and dart frog. I’ve read a ton on different species of dart frog with each other but I’m not sure if it’s the same with geckos? Some of the the ones I have read that talk about geckos weren’t very conclusive other than just don’t do it. 

Also on a side question, how big of a risk is there with pathogens spreading from different species like a day gecko to a dart frog or vice versa if both have been born and raised in captivity? 

Sorry if the post has been covered before, I’m just trying to find very specific reasons as the person I’m dealing with seems to be hard headed. Go figure lol


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## chefboyardee (May 31, 2013)

Socratic Monologue said:


> since people who have enough experience to be safely mixing animals like that... know enough not to announce it.



lol, this is accurate


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

Exactly - hanging a big Rapala out there with nice sharp treble hooks.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

a-ha said:


> Also on a side question, how big of a risk is there with pathogens spreading from different species like a day gecko to a dart frog or vice versa if both have been born and raised in captivity?


Not clear why this is relevant. Captive bred animals don't carry pathogens? CB animals aren't distinctly susceptible to novel pathogens? News to me. 

Here are a couple (go, go gadget search engine!) threads that are more specific to geckos, and have sophisticated commentary from Ed.

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/3449-mixing-multispecies-exhibits.html

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/234025-geckos-other-cohabitants-darts.html


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

JimM said:


> Exactly - hanging a big Rapala out there with nice sharp treble hooks.


Yep, and now we are all getting snagged, even here.

Lemme guess: this is happening on Facebook, right?


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

...or is it an old one with dull treble hooks?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

JimM said:


> ...or is it an old one with dull treble hooks?


We are obviously just stupid hungry fish, too -- we just see a flash in the water and hit it, and then get upset when we find ourselves flopping around on shore, gasping for air...


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## a-ha (Jun 20, 2012)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Not clear why this is relevant. Captive bred animals don't carry pathogens? CB animals aren't distinctly susceptible to novel pathogens? News to me.


Thanks for the replies! I only asked that cause Tanks brought it up. I also am like you and thought they aren’t susceptible but I wasn’t sure.


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## HawpScotch (Oct 4, 2018)

Do a ton. I mean a ton of research...

Some challenges you’ll have to solve.

1) Geckos typically need UVB which requires a super expensive and complex lid or screen large enough for fruit flies to wander out.

2) geckos typically need drier air than dart frogs to shed their skin properly and be happy 

3) geckos typically need a basking light that has the potential to be dangerous to a dart frog habitat 

4) dart frogs may out hunt whatever gecko species you put in there so you may have to use more fruit/baby food type foods then you think to keep the geckos well fed. 

There’s more that’s just some issues. Hopefully this is a little more helpful than the typical DONT DO IT posts


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## Captain Awesome (Jan 13, 2018)

All animals carry pathogens, even in captivity. Something that doesn’t hurt one can be fatal to another. Where I work, I am required to shower when leaving a room with rabbits before entering a room with guinea pigs. All the guinea pigs would likely die of bordetella which most rabbits carry. These are both domestic species that have been “out of the wild” for 10,000+ generations. This is not to say no one has both animals together. Not all are carriers People do keep them near each other but a lot died trying. They may also be fine for a year then die. At that point people come to the conclusion it was obviously some other factor since it has been so long when it was not.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

a-ha said:


> Thanks for the replies! I only asked that cause Tanks brought it up. I also am like you and thought they aren’t susceptible but I wasn’t sure.


Umm...I think my snarky/rhetorical/sarcastic response was misinterpreted. 

My position (and the fact of the matter) is: CB animals can and do carry pathogens. Also: CB animals are distinctly susceptible to novel pathogens (think: Europeans bringing smallpox to the New World).

This was contained in the threads I linked for you. A good outline of it is in this thread

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/3449-mixing-multispecies-exhibits.html

in post #36.

Did you read what Scott and I pointed you to? I'm starting to think I did a good amount of tracking info down for you and you didn't even read it.


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

a-ha said:


> Sorry if the post has been covered before, I’m just trying to find very specific reasons as the person I’m dealing with seems to be hard headed. Go figure lol


Ahhh...yes those "other people" can be very hard headed.


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## a-ha (Jun 20, 2012)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Did you read what Scott and I pointed you to? I'm starting to think I did a good amount of tracking info down for you and you didn't even read it.<img src="http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif" border="0" alt="" title="sad" class="inlineimg" />


My bad. Idk what the hell I was saying. Of course I read it and saw it but I was probably just being dumb and it passed right over my head. I do appreciate you finding those threads for me and sorry if it didn’t seem like I read them. 

And I did get into a Facebook argument lol tried to tell a guy that mixing species is looked down apon and he basically told me that he’s never heard people say not to mix and that he’s been in the hobby for a long time. He also claims that he knows a guy who’s a breeder or something that keeps a bunch together and says it’s fine. I’m pretty sure he’s either A) not really into the hobby that much B) rarely talks to people who are actually in the hobby C) full of bs or D) all of the above. 

Sorry had to vent


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

I have leucs living with mourning geckos in a 36x18x24 exoterra. They dont bother each other, and when I feed fruit flies I'll leave enough on higher parts of the viv. They are mostly active at night and will come down to the ground to forage and pick off whatever fruit flies are left on the feeding station if they're not feeling like they want to eat the repashy mrp. 

I dont think I would mix mourning geckoes with anything other than leucs or tincs. I know breeders that cohabit tinc pairs and mourning geckos in 18x18x18s, but I dont think I would go any smaller than something 24" tall personally, and even then it has to be designed with both animals in mind.


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

indrap said:


> I have leucs living with mourning geckos in a 36x18x24 exoterra. They dont bother each other, and when I feed fruit flies I'll leave enough on higher parts of the viv. They are mostly active at night and will come down to the ground to forage and pick off whatever fruit flies are left on the feeding station if they're not feeling like they want to eat the repashy mrp.
> 
> I dont think I would mix mourning geckoes with anything other than leucs or tincs. I know breeders that cohabit tinc pairs and mourning geckos in 18x18x18s, but I dont think I would go any smaller than something 24" tall personally, and even then it has to be designed with both animals in mind.


Cant seem to edit my post but just as an afterthought, more in the context of this thread - I dont think most day geckos would be a good idea to mix with pdfs unless you really plan things through, the species are "better" together, and the viv is of sufficient size. Additionally, a lot of the reasons not to mix have been given in this thread.

Anyways I dont think people should generally be trying to stuff as many different critters as possible into glass boxes just because its cool, nor do I promote mixing stuff "if you can". I do however, think some species (mourning geckos) are much more feasible than others (day geckos)


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## rtbaum (Mar 15, 2017)

I have lined day geckos with mantellas, they have no issues cohabiting.


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