# Rock wall...



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I started making the rock wall for a 24x18x18 exo terra. Here are the beginning pics. I just put the first layer of concrete on today.
















Will post an update next weekend.
Candy


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I did the second layer of concrete. Sculpting rocks is hard. My husband laughed at it and said it just looks like lumps of clay. Hopefully I can make it look more like rocks when I paint it..either that or add another layer of concrete but make it thicker.








Candy


----------



## bksbuddha (Oct 2, 2008)

Well, I think it's coming out really neat. Better than anything I can do. I cheated & bought a premade background. One of my big plans for the new viv is to camoflauge the PVC pipe w/some Reindeer Moss & fake flowers...w/a Philodendron in a pot for a topper. Please keep showing us the pics...I can't wait to see the masterpiece when it's completed!


----------



## morselchip (Jul 17, 2008)

The sculpting looks good! I haven't been able to find that kind of foam anywhere- as soon as I do, I'll get working on one of my own- I love the look!


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Looking good!


----------



## keekalmatter (Aug 9, 2008)

I have a question about these kinds of backgrounds. Would something like that hold up completely submerged? I would like to make one for a paludarium and parts would remain underwater.


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

I would think so. I made a small pool with this stuff and seems to be working so far. If cured wet this stuff gets VERY hard and should last a long time. just be sure to neutralize the pH before using it in water. This can be done by curing the concrete in water with a bit of white vinegar (acid) to neutralize the basic pH of the concrete.


----------



## keekalmatter (Aug 9, 2008)

ok sounds good :]


----------



## Jerm (May 20, 2008)

melas said:


> I would think so. I made a small pool with this stuff and seems to be working so far. If cured wet this stuff gets VERY hard and should last a long time. just be sure to neutralize the pH before using it in water. This can be done by curing the concrete in water with a bit of white vinegar (acid) to neutralize the basic pH of the concrete.


When you say cure it wet, do you mean completely submerge it until it has cured? What happens if you let it dry instead?


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

completely submerged would be best but you could also spray it as often as possible. curing it dry with just prevent the concrete from fully curing. you will get the greatest strength when cured under water.


----------



## Jerm (May 20, 2008)

melas said:


> completely submerged would be best but you could also spray it as often as possible. curing it dry with just prevent the concrete from fully curing. you will get the greatest strength when cured under water.


Thanks! How long does it typically take to cure?


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

concrete actually cures for a long time (read weeks and months) depending on the thickness, environmental conditions and type it is. I've been curing my concrete underwater for about 7 days. I do daily water changes so that as the carbonates leech from the concrete they are removed by the water change. The vinegar acts as an acid to help "pull" out even more of the carbonates which are responsible for the high pH.


----------



## Rodney (Feb 18, 2008)

What are you using for the concrete? Looks awesome. I want to make a rock wall in a 20 vert. for my moms office


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Type "N" Masonery Concrete mixed with water. I will post pics of the final layer this weekend.
Candy


----------



## KevinS (Sep 23, 2008)

Speaking of long curing times, how can you tell when it's done curing? Does the pH of the water you're soaking it in stop increasing once it's cured (that's the impression I'm getting if using vinegar speeds up the process).


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

KevinS said:


> Speaking of long curing times, how can you tell when it's done curing? Does the pH of the water you're soaking it in stop increasing once it's cured (that's the impression I'm getting if using vinegar speeds up the process).


Yeah you want the pH to be as close to 7.0 (neutral) as possible. I'm really not sure how that point relates to the curing process (not necessarily the same thing). If after 7 days of soaking/curing you have a neutral pH I'd say you are all set!


----------



## CHuempfner (Apr 27, 2008)

A basic pH will be greater than 7. An acidic pH will be lower than 7. Therefore, after soaking, the pH should be dropping if you are trying to neutralize with vinegar. Just hoping to clarify for anyone trying this out! You can usually ask your local pharmacy or pool supply store for pH test kits. 
Good luck! I am scared to try the concrete rock wall myself! I'm a little nervous to try out my artistic abilities 
Can't wait to see the finished tank, Candy!!!
Crystal


----------



## frogsanddogs (Jun 21, 2008)

Candy-
I think it's coming along great... you beat me to it!  I've had all of the supplies for a while but still trying to figure out exactly how I'm going to give it the look I was going for and how exactly to lay out the floor before starting...
From the construction journals I've watched on this technique, I have noticed that the painting makes an enormous difference in giving it the depth of field and realistic look that we want to get in creating rock walls, so I think yours is coming along great and I think when you get to the painting step that will give you the realistic "rock" look you are going for. Keep us posted.
Question though... for this curing under water/ vinegar detail.. I did not realize this before. I thought that people dried it and then rinsed/ soaked in water/ vinegar... so does this mean that between each layer it is soaked in water/ vinegar instead of left to dry first before rinsing? If so, how is this done with an exo style viv where you would not be able to "fill" with water to cover the back wall? It looks as though you are building your background outside of the tank to add in later which I think is a great idea but I don't think will be possible for the design I am working on... and I have seen people build them inside an exo- I know Devanny did one like this... so how is this "cured wet"? Any help on how to do this when building a rock/ concrete feature inside of an exo tank where you can't "fill with water" would be appreciated... also, please clarify whether between coatings it is to be kept wet or left to dry.
Thanks and good work Candy... can't wait to see it painted!
Marissa


----------



## postal (Aug 12, 2008)

Concrete is best cured wet, but it doesnt actually have to be submerged, just keep it wet-

Doing a sidewalk or driveway, the walk/driveway gets hosed down every few hours.

I would really recommend you do the wall outside of the tank even if you need to adjust the design- maybe split it into a few pieces that can be re assembled inside the tank.

The exo not being water tight is the least of your worries. Reaching inside it to sculpt the cement and paint it would be the main issue.

Even if you decide to do it inside the tank, just mix vinegar and water in a spray bottle and spray it several times a day. Cover the vents of the tank with saran wrap to keep the humidity up. Not an issue. When you're done, and it's been setting up for about a week with misting, take it outside and hose it out real well a few times.

Note that I've not done a rock background, but I've done some cement work before- and I read a lot.


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah you definitely don't need to cure it under water BUT you will get the strongest, most fully-cured concrete if it is cured underwater. Spraying it will work but remember the main thing you are trying to accomplish is the pH neutrality of the cement so as not to "burn" your frogs. the way I cured my exoterra was to simply use one of the big cement mixing trays available at lowes ($12) and lay the exoterra on its back in the tray. the tray could then be filled with water, covering the concrete. 

it would certainly be easier to do the rock wall outside of the tank but you are really limiting your designs or adding a tremendous amount of headache to multi-sided designs. for a back wall only design it would be easier to create the rock wall outside of the vivarium knowing that you'd have to allow a small gap on either side in order to get the background to fit back into the vivarium. if you wanted to have a back wall and perhaps some side walls this becomes incredibly difficult if you want them to line up etc. with my exoterra i didn't find it to be difficult at all working through the front doors. my 30 gallon high was much more difficult as it had top access only. Good luck!


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Read the making fake rocks thread ,its a very long and informative thread on this. From it I've started working with different colored grout for each layer and then sand the final down to expose the other colors--then there is no need to worry about paint that could be toxic or wear off with time and exposure to water.


----------



## bgmike64 (Mar 16, 2008)

I can't wait to see how yours turn out. I've been thinking of experimenting with my 10 gallon, but I'll wait a bit and see what yours look like. I wonder if the process is easier than the GS/Coco fiber background, which can be a pain...


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Hey there Mike. Here it is with the final layer of concrete added. I will paint it once it is fully cured and reaches a neutral ph. Going to start the vinegar soak tomorrow. Anyone here in Atlanta that wants to try this, don't buy the concrete. I have tons left over. I couldn't get a small bag of it so I had to get a 70lb bag. 

The coco-fiber background is a big time pain unless you do the concrete binder method. I did a 12g last night. (bottom picture)









































Candy


----------



## bgmike64 (Mar 16, 2008)

Wow, it's coming along rather nicely. Keep the pictures coming. By the way, how many tanks do you have now? I remember when that second tank was supposed to be your last.


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Ummm...4 permanent, 1 temp. My husband found out last night he got shookered into another one but he had 2 Sapporo's (the big cans) when he figured it out and just laughed at my guilty face. He actually bought the 3rd one for me (The exo-terra that the rock wall is for.). That took bribery of a 20 minute back massage once a week for a year. 
Candy


----------



## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

Nice! it looks really good, i cant wait to see it planted.


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Thank you Devanny. This tank is going to be a grow out tank for Terribilis so I don't think I want it heavily planted. A few plants and lots of leaf litter and coco huts. Once all the tanks get moved to the basement, I am going to move the terribilis to a bigger tank and make this one the permanent home for the cobalts. Once I do that, I will re-do this tank.
Candy


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

divingne1 said:


> That took bribery of a 20 minute back massage once a week for a year.
> Candy


Background looks great! Can't wait to see it painted! 20 minute weekly back massages for a year?? You are COMMITTED! Haha!


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Yeah, he bought the tank 4 weeks ago and have gotten 0 massages so far. I'm a slacker but eventually I am going to have to pay up. 
Candy


----------



## bgmike64 (Mar 16, 2008)

How's it coming along? Can't wait to see your progress notes and pics.....


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I ran some RO water to test the ph. I am about to go test it...it has been soaking in the RO water for a bit. Once it is neutral, I will let it dry and then begin painting it. I am hoping that will be this weekend. 

UPDATE: ph still way too high. Going to get more vinegar tomorrow so I can continue to soak it.
Candy


----------



## bgmike64 (Mar 16, 2008)

Candy, Did you soak with water and vinagar in between each layer of concrete or after the finished product? I'm gonna start my project soon and was curious. Also, how did you apply the concrete (hands or tools)?


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I soaked it in vinegar/water when I wasn't suppose to. After you apply the last layer of concrete, you need to keep it wet by just spraying it with water for 24 hours. I would spray it every 30 minutes or so. Put it in the bathtub so it doesn't dry out so fast. It will start to crack if you let it get too dry that first 24 hours. I took a shower in that bathroom, sprayed it down heavy and shut the shower curtain and bathroom door so I wouldn't have to spray it in the middle of the night...that way the humidity from the shower stayed longer. Then sprayed it first thing the next morning. You have to let it cure completely after that. I have it 2 days. Then start spraying it with straight vinegar. Not vinegar water. Keep spraying it until the concrete doesn't soak up the vinegar so fast. Do that for a week. Then rinse it alot with water. When you are actually doing your ph test, make sure to use RO water or distilled water. Test the ph of that water first and then let the wall sit in that water for a bit. Then test that water. If the ph is neutral 7.0 (or less) then you can start painting it after it is completely dry. I have noticed through the vinegar soak that the concrete is turning more whitish colored instead of grey. Don't soak in vinegar water. When I did that, I got some funky mud layer on the whole wall and had to scrub it off with a scrub brush. Keep us posted on the progress. I will post my pics once the ph is neutral.

Candy


----------



## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

I noticed my ph level went back up above 7.0...exo's are harder to keep filled up with water!....i cant wait to see it done i keep coming back to check.


----------



## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

About how much does the whole formation weigh?


----------



## clwatkins10 (Nov 15, 2008)

That wall looks pretty realistic so far


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

The wall weighs about 12-15 lbs. I didn't attach the wall to the exo-terra but will just have it sitting against the back. I just hope I can get the paint to look like rocks. I used to paint ceramics and have painted a stone wall before but I have not done that in years!
Candy


----------



## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

Nice, I can't wait to see it finished. I've thought of doing this myself, but was afriad to take the plunge.


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

The ph in the concrete is still too high. Now that I look at the size of the tank and the rock wall, I am not even sure I will use it. I will put the wall in the tank once it is done but may end up taking it out. I think it will take up too much floor space.
Candy


----------



## bgmike64 (Mar 16, 2008)

Any updates??


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Just got done trying to paint it. I ran out of the base paint so I have to go to walmart and get some tomorrow so I can finish it. Hopefully it will be ready by sunday. I think my base paint may be too light but we will see. I will just darken it up tomorrow once I get more paint if it dries too light.

Candy


----------



## loogielv (Nov 28, 2008)

i think it looks great. krylon fusion paint is non toxic and alot of people use it for completely submerged backgrounds. not sure if you know or not...

anyway, it's a spray paint with lots of colors.


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Just got back from Walmart with some more paint. Will post pics once it is finished. Hopefully sometime this evening. 
Candy


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

that's the best part! good luck!


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Ok here it is before it goes in the tank. Suggestions on making it look more natural are welcome!!!
















The waiting crew








Candy


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

i would use some brown to make it dirty


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Funny you say that because I did just that. The bad thing is it won't fit in the tank. The wall is 23 1/2" wide and the tank is 23" wide. I didn't realize that when they said the tank was 24x18x18, that included the trim. The glass itself is only 23". I chisled some of the wall away but still can't get it to fit in there. Oh well..the terribilis are going into a bigger tank when they are adults anyway. 
Candy


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

That stinks! I guess it will look great in your next tank! 

As far as the painting part - another thing you can try is lightly sanding down the edges of the "outcrops" and flat areas. This will help to tone down the paint and make it more natural and "worn" looking.


----------



## bgmike64 (Mar 16, 2008)

The wall looks great. Sorry about the fit. Are you going to do another? Even though it didn't fit, do you think the back of the wall was flat and level enough to fit flush against the glass?


----------



## bksbuddha (Oct 2, 2008)

The wall does look awesome!!! I'm so truly sorry that it doesn't fit in there. Btw, those are gorgeous babies... I love them. I'm hoping to someday see some that are in the mint green.


----------

