# whites tree frog hurt toe



## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

hello! i know this is a dart frog forum but i haven’t been able to register on frogforum and i’m very nervous about my frog. if anyone has any advice i’d be very grateful!!

yesterday i noticed Mango’s toe was bent backwards. he was having trouble walking with it in the morning, but he seemed a little more active the next day. i called my local reptile store and they said i should try to straighten the toe out, monitor it for a couple of days, and that frogs can usually heal themselves pretty well. i’ve had my frogs for about 7 months now and this is the first health concern i’ve had so i’m not quite sure what to do . has this happened to anyone else?









picture from yesterday around 5am








picture from today around 5am


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Your local reptile store was wrong. A wellspring of Wrongness.

Your frogs toe is infected. It will not get better by itself. There is great potential for it to become systemic, that means invade his bloodstream and cause him to lose his life.

It could also be a thermal burn they happen very quickly w whites catching and dangling from an emitter or bulb. Doesnt matter what wattage or clerk saying its safe.

Its possible for a toe to get caught in certain mesh grades as well.

Either way he needs veterinary help asap. 

Its past topical ointment help.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

If he mangled his toe and its position breaches blood flow it will become gangrenous. Which if your lucky he only loses a toe. But it very frequently 'crawls' up the limb and becomes more extensive in loss and sickness potential.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> If he mangled his toe and its position breaches blood flow it will become gangrenous. Which if your lucky he only loses a toe. But it very frequently 'crawls' up the limb and becomes more extensive in loss and sickness potential.


thanks so much! i’m going to find a vet and make an appointment ASAP but it might take a couple of days to get him seen. do you have any advice about how i should keep him safe until then?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Can you post a pic of the tank? One from above looking down and one from the front.

Side views are a welcome addition but above and full front view a must.

Sometimes its better to modify the space hes used to than create a Q tank. But its case by case. Guys w other guys require quarantine.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Can you post a pic of the tank? One from above looking down and one from the front.
> 
> Side views are a welcome addition but above and full front view a must.
> 
> Sometimes its better to modify the space hes used to than create a Q tank. But its case by case. Guys w other guys require quarantine.




















i have one other frog who he lives with. should i quarantine them?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Oh k the reason to Q an animal is to remove an individual that could transmit pathogens to other cagemates. And also to enable closer monitoring. Another factor is to limit environs contacts and actions if these may cause hazard or more/other self-injury if they are impaired or have wounds or exposed tissue.
Also to make it easy for them to find and access their resources, like water and temperature zones, and hiding shelter.

I cant help but see many problematic areas and surfaces, in the artifacts shown. But perhaps one step at a time.

He definitely needs quarantine. Do you have a 10 gal tank? Do you have a screen top that fits it?

They can be made other ways but the 10 w screen will reduce variabilities that happen when ppl make their own tupp bins, drilling holes, heating it with gear. Esp if never used one.

An expedited situ for a glass 10 is an easy formula to acquire and follow.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Oh k the reason to Q an animal is to remove an individual that could transmit pathogens to other cagemates. And also to enable closer monitoring. Another factor is to limit environs contacts and actions if these may cause hazard or more/other self-injury if they are impaired or have wounds or exposed tissue.
> Also to make it easy for them to find and access their resources, like water and temperature zones, and hiding shelter.
> 
> I cant help but see many problematic areas and surfaces, in the artifacts shown. But perhaps one step at a time.
> ...


thank you so much for your help! glad i came across this site since my reptile store got it wrong. 

alright i’m getting the 10 gallon tank ready! i’m guessing i should clean the main tank to keep my other frog safe too?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Its more than the cleanliness. 

I think we need to re think the set up. But lets concentrate on the problem frog.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Dont put coco sub in the 10 gal tank. You font need to put any sub in it, but if you must damp paper towel in a layer. Pressed cotton coete type squares mildly dampened (they look like gauze but arent, there are no threads) are also good. 

Low water dish. A simple hide with a smooth top. A dark towel over half of the tank.

I dont know what you have for heat gear. So i close with that.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Dont put coco sub in the 10 gal tank. You font need to put any sub in it, but if you must damp paper towel in a layer. Pressed cotton coete type squares mildly dampened (they look like gauze but arent, there are no threads) are also good.
> 
> Low water dish. A simple hide with a smooth top. A dark towel over half of the tank.
> 
> I dont know what you have for heat gear. So i close with that.


got it! i’ll get a small lamp for him tomorrow. thank you again for looking out for my little Mango!!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)




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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Its highly recommended to go to an ARAV Vet.

It may require travel a list is available per sticky in health and disease section.

If you cannot get to an arav vet which again is HIGHLY PREFERRED.

If things change quickly and its impossible to wait, second best option is a practice with exotics experience.

If toe turns dark, exudes or more swelling, if he turns pallid or loses strength.

A small not mini heat pad stuck on the wall with bottom edge flush w tank frame, on same side as the towel cover requires less micromanagement than a heat lamp. I am concerned swelling will split the skin and this dubiously blood supplied injury drying out under radiant heat would not be good.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Its highly recommended to go to an ARAV Vet.
> 
> It may require travel a list is available per sticky in health and disease section.
> 
> ...


got it! switching to the heating pad now, thank you! 
i’ll call the ARAV vets first thing tomorrow morning and try to get the earliest appointment. his color has been good and he’s been very active at night.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Thats good to hear!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The irony is, sometimes drying up can lead to simply falling off. With a beautifully healed surface. But there is no way of knowing here and picking a cup can be lethal.

I commend you on seeking treatment. Not everyone does. 

I have whites too. And i love my boys.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Hows Mango today?


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## Quaksi (Dec 19, 2020)

Hope your fella is doing better!


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

hello, sorry i didn’t see this yesterday! thanks for keeping Mango in your thoughts  here’s an update!

luckily i was able to get an appointment with an ARAV vet this morning. the vet said he most likely broke his toe on a jump and then it became infected. he recommended they amputate the toe, suture it, and send us home with some antibiotics. 

(i was actually pretty nervous when i made this appointment because the pet hospital had pretty low ratings. i called another place with slightly higher reviews first but they didn’t have any openings until next week and i didn’t think Mango could wait that long. to be honest though, all the hospitals on the list had really mixed reviews so i just had to hope for the best. this vet ended up being super kind and i left with a good impression, but i wanna wait a few days and observe Mango before i give them an official review).

again luckily they were able to do the surgery the same day so i just had to wait a few hours for him to come back! he said the amputation went even better than they expected and they didn’t have to suture the toe after all (they even knocked $82 off my bill for skipping that!). he also said he did a free x-ray of Mango since he didn’t have many frog x-rays and he found that his front foot on the opposite side had a small fracture as well. he said the fracture should actually heal on its own, but that i should keep an eye on it and try to prevent him from doing more damage. not quite sure how i’m going to keep him from jumping/falling off high surfaces though...

they said i can keep Mango in the quarantine tank for a few days and then he can return to the main tank and hang out with his friend Sticky Rice again 

i’m supposed to drip his antibiotics on his back every 48 hours for 20 days.

i took most of the stuff out of the main tank. i think i’m going to switch to paper towel bedding (hopefully that will minimize infections in the future?) and i removed the froggy treehouse. i sanitized the artificial hanging plants and the water dish, and removed everything else that Mango could’ve touched. 

i picked up one of these for the frogs to hide in instead of the treehouse. it has a larger opening and i think it’s made of foam. do you think this is a good hide or should i return it?










here’s what his toe looks like for now:










thank you for everything @Kmc !! i was posting everywhere for advice, i’m so lucky that you got back to me! Mango says thank you too!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Im really happy and moved for you and Mango.

Amputations of a toe or even a rear foot or even a leg (eg; arterial clot - with great outcome of subject keeping up with 2 other cagemates after amputation with no problem!)

Yes the treehouse was problemetic and could very well have caught a toe. 

Look into Cork Rounds.. Thats what i have used for Whites. 

The resin artifact you show looks like it would be ok, as long as they like it.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

His color looks GREAT. Not pale or splotchy. Good Job.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

i’m glad he’s doing well and hope his recovery goes smoothly!

my other frog Sticky hasn’t really eaten since friday. saturday is when i changed his tank completely. could he be stressed from the changes? his color looks normal, he pooped on saturday and it was small but firm, and he’s still active. this morning i put a mealworm, a cricket, and a dubia roach in front of him and he ate them all but when i put him in the container with the bugs, he just climbed out. i’m just worried that he could’ve caught the infection that Mango has.

(if he needs to go to the vet i want to take him of course, but i did have to take the day off work, drive 50 miles away, and pay a couple hundred dollars to take Mango yesterday so if there’s anything i can do at home i want to check first)


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

He could be 'on alarm' from the upheaval of the environment.

Sometimes putting a frog or other herp in a container to feed causes them to be distracted from feeding.

Another way to do it is to keep a wide crock in the living environment in a good view point for the frogs. I like to put a perching branch or a stable 'patio' feature beside it to make it nice for them. I also like to put a smear of moist fish flake dough to keep the feeder insects nourished and occupied.

Its important to keep it clean. I have advised people to put the crock on an identical one, over turned and flush with the actual floor, to provide a clear platform for the feeding crock. This prevents variables in setting it back, so that animals dont try to burrow under an irregularity beneath the heavy artifact. Preventing a freak accident. It also raises it which can make it easier for keeper to reach and return clearly in some tanks and set ups. Hope that helps.


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## hellooofrog (Jan 9, 2021)

Kmc said:


> He could be 'on alarm' from the upheaval of the environment.
> 
> Sometimes putting a frog or other herp in a container to feed causes them to be distracted from feeding.
> 
> ...


That’s super helpful, I’ll give it a try! You are a lifesaver


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

You are Kind. Truly.


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