# Keeping Atelopus in the U.S.?



## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Can anyone clarify whether it is currently legal to keep Atelopus species in the U.S.? I "may" have an opportunity to procure some in Europe while on business and before I even start to look into what would be involved in such a process I thought I would solicit feedback. Please note that I'm only considering the opportunity and haven't really given it any thought. Just a possibility that I may or may not bother to investigate.


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Atelopus Spumarius and Barbotini have been imported in the past and may currently be legally imported to Europe (read: Dutch Rana's recent import of both of the above). You'd need papers, though. And those would take you a good 3 months in advance and about 300 dollars (at the least).

-Nish


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks, Nish. I just re-read Rain Frog's thread and seems pretty clear cut.


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

my local zoo(columbus,ohio zoo&aquarium) is adopting them out for $35.00 and some paperwork.i think they are cool .the hand waving gets me every time!


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

it is atelopus zeteki......................they have


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

iridebmx said:


> my local zoo(columbus,ohio zoo&aquarium) is adopting them out for $35.00 and some paperwork.i think they are cool .the hand waving gets me every time!


How are they able to do that? The agreement with the Panamanian government that allowed the zoos to acquire zeteki prohibits them from releasing any animals to the public.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I think if you read through thier website you will find that they are not actually adopting them out like an animal shelter does but instead are allowing people to "adopt" them to pay for part of the toads care and upkeep but the toad stays firmly placed in the Zoo. 
Virtually all AZA Zoos have an adopt an animal programs. You pay some money and get a packet of information, a picture and in some zoos if you pay a lot of money into the program a behind the scenes tour. 

Ed


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

Ed beat me to it by a minute!...
By adopting, they mean that you pay money to "adopt" them at the zoo. You probably get a picture and osme other special recogniiton. It is simply a fund-raising device for public institutions. It does not mean they are going home with you!!!


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

well i guess thats the paperwork they were talkin about.....hmmmmmm


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Aaron, you will also see you are able to adopt tigers and elephants at some zoos also. Its a shame that zeteki are not one of the legal species since they are so much easier to breed compared to others.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

One of the main reasons that zeteki may have been easier to breed than other species is that they were brought into the country in good condition. This is very different than how the other species have been imported in the pet trade. 
The zeteki were collected and kept well and fed until they were hand carried to the US. They were not collected and held at a collectors, then transported by a middleman when they had enough animals to export to a exporter who then held them until a shipment could be made. 
The condition in which the come to the country is usually sufficient to prevent survivial much less successful reproduction...... 

Ed


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

The Atelopus that recently came in, had been treated against Pseudomonas, as that is what the first import was suffering from. They where treated before going on transport and also treated after arrival.
These animals are doing great! The first import earlier this year was a desaster indeed. 

Though from what I heard they have imported into the US this year aswell... I have no idea by whom though.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Was that confirmed on bacterial cultures? Pseudomonad infections are typically due to really poor conditions and over crowding and often positive results of Pseudomonas are due to contamination as it is naturally occuring in the toads. 

The ones I have seen imported several years ago were all suffering from extreme starvation, had no fat reserves and often looked like they had been rubbed on a cheese grater. 

As far as I know, there have been no imports into the USA in the last several years ever since it was noticed by the powers that be that they were being imported as dwarf toads Bufo ssp. 

Ed


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## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

All 5 of my origional animals from last years import are still going strong.. No kudos to myself on that as I put it all down to Ed's fantastic advice and consistent answers to my MANY pm's cheers Ed you're a star mate!


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

Ed said:


> Was that confirmed on bacterial cultures? Pseudomonad infections are typically due to really poor conditions and over crowding and often positive results of Pseudomonas are due to contamination as it is naturally occuring in the toads.


I don't know how this was confirmed but it sure didn't sound unlikely to me. From what I heard from the importer, the cages in which the frogs are held after collection where never cleaned. Also they where never treated against anything. This has changed since the Dutch importer went there to give them advice on cleaning the cages and giving these people the medications to treat the frogs. Also advice on how to pack the frogs for shipment has been given. This resulted in a much better import the second time with little to none animal losses and perfectly healthy frogs. 

I'm keeping 7 of these beauties and they really seem very easy to care for.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

the preimport and import conditions seem to be really critical for getting them to do well in the long term. 
However there are a lot of bacteria that can cause the same symptoms as what is often considered the classic Pseudomonad septicemia aka "red-leg". The problem is that while Aeromonads appear to be the most common causative agent, I would not assume that providing a treatment that is effective for Aermonads/Pseudomonads is going to resolve the issue (for example see http://jvdi.org/cgi/reprint/14/5/431.pdf and associated references at the end of the article). 

Ed


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Ed said:


> As far as I know, there have been no imports into the USA in the last several years ever since it was noticed by the powers that be that they were being imported as dwarf toads Bufo ssp.


Is that how they are imported to Europe currently? Or listed as Atelopus sp.?


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

Atelopus used to be imported along with Typhonius sp. of toads as assorted toads, Bufo sp. on the paperwork. Then USFW required more specific information which eliminated Atelopus from being imported. Europe currently is not as strict so they are being exported there.

Ed is 100% correct in his assessment of the health of the zeteki as compared to "normal" condition of import frogs. When I used to unpack Atelopus frogs they would come in four to a cup, if there happened to be a female she would have a male firmly clasped to her back and the other two clambering for position as well, probably a bit stressful. Almost always incurred loses on newly imported animals, and we had a better than average exporter.

thanks
Eric


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I had thought they were in the hobby years ago, but I could be mistaken.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

They were Falvescens came out of the keys in the 90's (not sure if those were legal) and then a green species (Peruensis??) were imported by the 100's through south Florida probably as recently as 6-7 years ago. The purple ones (barboni?) came to the US in the last couple of years, ABG got a group as did a certain web site creating member of DB, this was a small importation and did not occur again.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

markpulawski said:


> They were Falvescens came out of the keys in the 90's (not sure if those were legal) and then a green species (Peruensis??) were imported by the 100's through south Florida probably as recently as 6-7 years ago. The purple ones (barboni?) came to the US in the last couple of years, ABG got a group as did a certain web site creating member of DB, this was a small importation and did not occur again.


Hi Mark,

When I spoke to Ben and later Ron down at ABG about the atelopus they recieved (about 3 years ago), they told me that they had only recieved A. s. hoogmoedi and not the A. barbetoni. ABG still has the males that were imported but they lost the females as well. If Ron had gotten in the barbetoni it would have been after I spoke to him. 

Ed


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