# What can I put in a 10G



## JAG (Oct 9, 2010)

I am as new as new gets. I have always had reptiles and breed Ball pythons. So this is all really new to me. Only reason I want to use a 10 gallon is cause I have everything for it already. I want to see how it goes before I dive in deeper. So could anyone recommend a species that would work in a 10 gallon either terrestrial or vertical. I would like to put a pair in there.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

A pairof thumbs, imis, intermedius, vents.


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## JAG (Oct 9, 2010)

Julio said:


> A pairof thumbs, imis, intermedius, vents.


Excuse my stupidity haha but what are Vents. Probably know what they are from all my readings just dont know that term.

Thanks
Jeremey


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

D. ventrimaculatus


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Dendrobates.org - Ranitomeya ventrimaculata


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## JAG (Oct 9, 2010)

Julio said:


> Dendrobates.org - Ranitomeya ventrimaculata


Would they do better in a vertical or horizontal set up?

Also just came across a 15 gallon I had sitting around. Could a pair of azureus, auratus or tinctorius fit in there fine? it measures 24 x 12 x 12.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

they will be fine in a vertical or horizontal setup, i have kept them in both. you can keep a pair of frogs of your choice in the 15 gallon


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

The vast majority of thumbs love to climb, so I would put it on end.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

JAG said:


> Would they do better in a vertical or horizontal set up?
> 
> Also just came across a 15 gallon I had sitting around. Could a pair of azureus, auratus or tinctorius fit in there fine? it measures 24 x 12 x 12.


A 15 is fine for a pair of auratus, tincs, or azureus...Just try to make the back ground climbable, like with ledges and stuff, and give them a coco hut or 2, or some other kinda hides...basically just maximize the usable space. Chances are it will make the tank look nicer and the frogs will benefit from it also.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

24x12x12 is the same footprint as a 20H (24x12x16) which is the usual recommendation for larger terrestrial frogs, it'll be just fine for the frogs you mentioned.


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## JAG (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks guys for your help. Another quick question. What is a good light source for a tank this size (15 G) that will be good for a variety of plants and not heat up the tank to much? The tank will be in bed room witch is normall around 70-74 degrees. So I want somthing the plants can benifit from but not heat up the tank to much either.


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## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

For the 15 gallon I actually feel that you would be better off with no background, for the height of the tank and the amount of space one takes up I feel it provides no benefit but taking up usable ground space which is what the species you mentioned need.


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## JAG (Oct 9, 2010)

johnachilli said:


> For the 15 gallon I actually feel that you would be better off with no background, for the height of the tank and the amount of space one takes up I feel it provides no benefit but taking up usable ground space which is what the species you mentioned need.


What about just a coark bark backgorund or tree fern squares? would that be ok?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

those would both work well, and make just as good a background. 
I would light the 15 with a 26 watt cfl in 6500k


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

johnachilli said:


> For the 15 gallon I actually feel that you would be better off with no background, for the height of the tank and the amount of space one takes up I feel it provides no benefit but taking up usable ground space which is what the species you mentioned need.


I'll have to disagree with this especially given the extra height opposed to a 10gal...A well made back ground incorporating a few ledges made of drift wood or stone siliconed into place on the back glass will give the frogs more useful space then they loose by installing the background unless you make a 4+ inch thick wall of GS foam or something. On thing I've done in tanks is choose pieces of wood that will only stick out around 2 inches or so, silicone one 2-3 inches off the substrate, another a couple inches above that and so on...You can do it in tiers so the frog hops up to one, then hops up and over to the next, and so on and if they only stick out a few inches they won't obstruct lights or interfere with planting, but some interesting things can be done with pieces that actually go from the substrate floor and connect somewhere on the background also. 

This isn't the greatest example but it kinda illustrates what I mean...just substitute a cork and/or GS/silicone/peat background for the rock one in your imagination. Though you could use shale to make ledges in that type of background kinda like I did in this tank in a few spots... 









Anyways if this was a frog tank instead of a desert viv the total usable space provided by the wood areas or rock ledges would equal or surpass any that I actually lost by taking up a little floor space in making the background (especially since I wouldn't have made the substrate layer so high if it was for frogs).

Another thing you can do is use hollow logs or cork tubes as part of the background or as floor pieces that basically make up for the space they take up by letting the frog climb on AND through them...I think I'll take my own advice there and start incorporating more cork tubes into my backgrounds


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## Frogman8 (Sep 28, 2010)

Personally, I did very well with 10 gal breeding tincs. I have had success with powder blues , citronella, and azureus pairs all in seperate 10 gal of course. But all have mated numerous times and lived for 8 + yrs in them. justPut alot of plants in there and a hut. Good luck


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## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

Dendro Dave said:


> I'll have to disagree with this especially given the extra height opposed to a 10gal...A well made back ground incorporating a few ledges made of drift wood or stone siliconed into place on the back glass will give the frogs more useful space then they loose by installing the background unless you make a 4+ inch thick wall of GS foam or something. On thing I've done in tanks is choose pieces of wood that will only stick out around 2 inches or so, silicone one 2-3 inches off the substrate, another a couple inches above that and so on...You can do it in tiers so the frog hops up to one, then hops up and over to the next, and so on and if they only stick out a few inches they won't obstruct lights or interfere with planting, but some interesting things can be done with pieces that actually go from the substrate floor and connect somewhere on the background also.
> 
> This isn't the greatest example but it kinda illustrates what I mean...just substitute a cork and/or GS/silicone/peat background for the rock one in your imagination. Though you could use shale to make ledges in that type of background kinda like I did in this tank in a few spots...
> 
> ...


Dave,
I agree that in a large tank a background is a very useful and important part of the enclosure. I guess I should have been more clear but I feel that in the case of a standard 15 gallon the cons of a background out weigh the pros. Given that the tank is only 12 inches tall, you have a false bottom 2+ inches and then a layer of substrate and leaf litter 3 inches or so what you are left with is only another 7 inches of height which I think is way too little of a space to worry about going through all the work of doing a complex background. 

As far as the issue of space: Lets say the background comes 1 inch off the back x 24 inches of tank length equals 24 square inches. The total of the tank is 12x24 so 288 sq inches, so 24/288 is .083. Meaning you lose about 8% of the floor space by doing a background of 1 inch in that tank. 

I just finished a 20 gal long a couple of weeks ago and decided not to do a background for these reasons. Instead I just leaned a couple of pieces of bark against the back wall. I like how it came out. 

In the end the decision is up to the builder I was just sharing my thoughts.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

johnachilli said:


> Dave,
> I agree that in a large tank a background is a very useful and important part of the enclosure. I guess I should have been more clear but I feel that in the case of a standard 15 gallon the cons of a background out weigh the pros. Given that the tank is only 12 inches tall, you have a false bottom 2+ inches and then a layer of substrate and leaf litter 3 inches or so what you are left with is only another 7 inches of height which I think is way too little of a space to worry about going through all the work of doing a complex background.
> 
> As far as the issue of space: Lets say the background comes 1 inch off the back x 24 inches of tank length equals 24 square inches. The total of the tank is 12x24 so 288 sq inches, so 24/288 is .083. Meaning you lose about 8% of the floor space by doing a background of 1 inch in that tank.
> ...


Ok I looked up 15gal sizes... basically my idea of a 15gal is a 15tall (I've actually hardly ever seen them offered around here, or seen any type of 15 in person period, I have had several 18talls) the 15tall look to be 4-6 inches taller then a 10, or 20L...and you can actually pack quite a bit of usable space in the form of ledges on background in extra space like that. As for the smaller tanks I still think it is worth doing a cork or some other type of thinner background like tree fern. If you don't you are throwing away a lot of area for biomass (feeders like springs and isopods) to reside in. Check out this background on one of my newest 10's (still growing in). It is less then half an inch thick where it meets the soil...(and while the frog my not have that half inch thick strip of floor space feeders like springs and isopods still get to use it)









Also you can't see it but in the back right corner there is a coco hut burried in the substrate with a flat rock under it and a thin layer of sphagnum moss on top of it, so they can walk around on top of that area or go into the actual hut...almost doubling the usable space in that area to help make up for some of the area lost to the pond. 

To me the extra biomass the tank can support on the background and the aesthetic value of it makes up for any usable space you might loose. You can make the area very thin the first inch or 2 off the substrate to minimize any lost area while having the rest of the background a bit thicker. This method basically consists of siliconing broken pieces of cork tile onto the back glass with small gaps in between that are jammed full or sphagnum moss. 

Here is a new 20H using the same method...(New and still growing in also)







Tree fern or rock could be substituted for cork, and In this last example I could of done way better making the background have climbable areas but I mostly wanted to grow some plants on it. I figure the hollow log kinda makes up for some of the potential usable space I wasted. That background though is less then an inch thick in most places and will support a lot of mirco fauna.

BTW I don't generally house pairs of adult frogs in these 10's with corner ponds. They are usually used for growing out froglets or juvi frogs I've bred or aquired, or housing extra single adults since a large chunk of usable space is taken up by the pond.


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