# Salamander in a dart frog viv.....bad idea?



## fmfox (Mar 29, 2007)

I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but I was just wondering if anybody has done this successfully. And if it is possible, what special environmental/topographical accommodations would be required.

thanks

martin


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## dustin_grey (Mar 8, 2006)

Temps would probaly be to different. I have a salamander with a dumpy white tree frog and they do well together, but thats only because the tree frog is too big to swallow .

I wouldnt recommend it and Im sure that other users will chime in and agree.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Salamanders, in general, are temperate zone animals. They like it cooler. The only salamanders I would say could comfortably live in with a dart would be the Bolitoglossa salamanders that naturally occur in the same or similar environments. But since I doubt many, if any, are available in the US commercially, it wouldn't be advisable to put in any other salamander.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2007)

Not good--salamanders need it cool. Not to mention any contamination from possible parasites, etc. that the salamander might introduce to the frogs.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

A salamander in a viv with a dart frog, definatly a bad idea.

A salamander in a viv like one would provide a dart frog, perhaps not such a bad idea.

As was brought up, most salamanders are temparate zone animals. I know there are some beautiful salamanders around these parts, and the temps get both too hot and too cold for darts.

There are probably plenty of salamanders that would survive, in a pdf style viv, (but many probably would not breed without a cold season).

I hope some sally experts chime in, because I've been looking to try something new as well.


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## fmfox (Mar 29, 2007)

Ah yes....temperature differences. Thanks guys, I should have thought about that. 

So, if I find a species of salamander that inhabits (in nature) the same ecosystems as my frogs, I will revisit this idea. But until then, I guess it's a no-go.

martin


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Martin,

I seem to remember a post on tropical salamanders a year or so ago. I believe Ed said that the ones that he has seen have come in with chytrid. This should probably be taken into consideration.


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

Chris is right, chytrid is a major problem with the Central/South American salamanders that would be okay in dart tanks, and these animals have horrible mortality rates. 

There are a few salamanders that might be okay in dart frog temperatures, but even then they're more likely to just survive than thrive. I personally don't like to keep any of my salamanders over 70F, and most darts prefer temperatures over 70.

Additionally, you bring up a whole sack full of problems with the mixing. It's not good for the animals (disease, parasites, stress) and you'd probably lose a lot of area trying to make the tank suitable for both. It comes down to the issue of the appearance of two animals together being more important than the general health of these animals. Just get two tanks, it's not that hard.


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## fmfox (Mar 29, 2007)

Thanks for the info. Good point with the chytrid. I generally assume chytrid is a problem with _any_ imported amphibian. That's why I stick to captive-breds. And no way would I put a cb sal into any of my existing environments. 

However, if I were to discover that an environmentally-compatible salamander species (i.e., one that requires the same humidity/temp/light cycles as, say, a tinctorius) were being bred successfully in the US, I'd consider creating a viv that would accommodate both darts and sals. And I agree that it would have to be largish, the tank i was considering using is a 55 long.

But as for the "appearance of two animals" aspect.....it is my understanding that salamanders are typically nocturnal. I suspect that any sal I kept would stay under a log, rock, piece of bark all day, only emerging once the lights went off. So basically I wouldn't expect to spend much time observing the sal's appearance at all. I guess I'd have to guage its health by the disappearance (or not) of its food, and the size/quality of its scat. 

As for the stress on the animals.....I gotta figure that their opposing activity schedules would mitigate a good deal of the stress that they might normally otherwise cause each other. 

But, as it turns out, I'm having no luck in my search for such a captive-bred environmentally-compatible species. As it turns out, there are very few salamander species in Guyana, Suriname, French Guiana, etc. So it looks like the point may well be moot. 

martin


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Bolitoglossids can work with dendrobates but they have been documented not only coming with chytrid but are typically in such poor condition that they they rapidly die. (with B. dolflini they tend to drop thier tail and die). There have been very few captive reproductions in the Bolitoglossids. 

Ed


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Most terrestrial salamanders eventually learn to come out in the daytime at least to be fed.

I think what would be nice would be a large naturalistic viv with a population of 2 lined salamanders(Eurycea bislineata). You could have a lot of fun trying to create little waterfalls, seeps, and whatnot they see in their native habitat.


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