# Rarest frog in the hobby?



## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

As the title states, I would like to know from the long time breeders what is considered to be the rarest frog in this hobby.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Not really a long time breeder, but still have a decent feel for what's out there. 

Mantella cowani, moonshine galactonotus, black auratus, gold auratus, black jeans pumilio, granuliferous, & vincentei to name a few. 

If you're considering illegal frogs, then the dude who claimed to have a Monte Iberia Eleuth here a month ago probably takes the cake.


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

I have been wanting a black auratus for some time. Is the red galact making a comeback in the hobby? You tend to see them a little more recently.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

those are no where near as rare as some others. especially some morphs of histrionica, sylvatica, and of course the rarest is probably lehmanni (the yellow population).


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## Feelin Froggy (May 12, 2011)

So Castro let a few of those out did he? Lol

Tclipse.... What's that frog in your avatar?


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Asking around I feel like the "Koi" sylvaticus might make a run at those yellow lehmanni....


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Rarest Frogs in the hobby...

Robalo Pumilio
Uyama River Pumilio

As far as whats been here but may not be legal it would be a couple others. I wouldnt stress on the unknown legal status of the Histo's and Sylvaticus.

Michael


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

With 7 posts, you want to start off with the rarest frog?



DARTGUY41 said:


> As the title states, I would like to know from the long time breeders what is considered to be the rarest frog in this hobby.


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## cairo11 (Jan 8, 2011)

The central texas bull frog...or the petsmart firebelly toad might be a jyst a tad more rare and elusive than hists,sylvs and lemahnnis...


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

The rarest frog? The one you're not interested in.

Folks like to stick with frogs of 'prestige'...but it's the less glamorous species that are generally the ones least represented in the hobby. We lost, for instance, the "Giron Valley" form of _E. anthonyi_ completely from the hobby sometime over the last decade. How many are working with the "Salvias" form anymore? These are frogs that will probably rarely, if ever, make it onto anyone's rare frog list, but probably some of the most tenuous forms represented because of the assumed commonality and high rate of fecundity.


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

Woodsman said:


> With 7 posts, you want to start off with the rarest frog?


I'm not interested in owning the rarest frog I was just trying to make conversation on the board. In this hobby there are always new interesting frogs popping up. As for 7 posts....I guess because I only have 7 posts on the dendroboard community I know nothing about darts...wow. Been keeping herps my entire life and I got into darts over 2 years ago and have been successfully breeding since.


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## KingSnake9 (Jul 14, 2011)

i love black auratus


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

DARTGUY41 said:


> I'm not interested in owning the rarest frog I was just trying to make conversation on the board. In this hobby there are always new interesting frogs popping up. As for 7 posts....I guess because I only have 7 posts on the dendroboard community I know nothing about darts...wow. Been keeping herps my entire life and I got into darts over 2 years ago and have been successfully breeding since.


Pay no attention to assumed intentions. A lot of the long timers on here have seen many noobs come on and try and buy the rarest thing they can find to make money, kind of the whole ball python thing, so you can understand that they could jump to conclusions. I find the rarity subject fascinating.... Not because I want to own one, but because it's interesting to learn about these little known breeds.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

post retracted...bordered on hijack.

Sorry.


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## jibfest (Dec 1, 2010)

Dont sweat the comment DARTGUY41. I love dendroboard, the wealth of info and the genuinely helpfull people are awesome! One thing I have noticed about this board tho is there are ALOT of D Bags, know it alls, etc. You've got to sift through ALOT of BS to get to something worth reading. Anyways as I am a "noob" like yourself (only 8 yrs keeping PDFs) I have often thought this is a very interesting topic. But as a only 8ish post person myself I guess I should'nt say too much.

Ryan


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

there are probably people with very rare frogs in the hobby, but thats really too broad a question. by hobby, does a single individual or a few people having a frog make it "in the hobby" there is also a LOT of discretion when interpreting "rare". i wouldnt be surprised to find that some frogs, which arent even believed to be in captivity, are hiding out in a few collections. sirensis for example. if twomey and brown could find them, im sure a smuggler could too, perhaps even more easily since smugglers give monetary incentives to locals.

and on the topic of people here on DB. 
with a new join date and low post count, even after both of you have explained that you've been in the dart hobby for years, you could in reality be a 12 year old sitting at home on moms computer with 0 dart experience, and none of us would be the wiser. with a long post history its easy to tell that at least youve been active in reading and responding to posts, and its usually assumed that you know SOME about the ins and outs of the hobby as well as the animals. to come on here and act like someone was an ass for calling you out is ridiculous. its a pretty tight knit community, and like or hate each other, names and info travel quick. its far more likley that your average person looking for comments on this sort of question, is new to the hobby and unaware of the implications with owning these animals, which is generally the endgame.
and in this case i think the "D Bags" are people who assume everyone should look at a low post count or new join date and say, "of course that person has close to a decade of experience with darts" i sure as hell know i'm not a mind reader. my exes would be happy to confirm this.

james


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

james67 said:


> and on the topic of people here on DB.
> with a new join date and low post count, even after both of you have explained that you've been in the dart hobby for years, you could in reality be a 12 year old sitting at home on moms computer with 0 dart experience, and none of us would be the wiser. with a long post history its easy to tell that at least youve been active in reading and responding to posts, and its usually assumed that you know SOME about the ins and outs of the hobby as well as the animals. to come on here and act like someone was an ass for calling you out is ridiculous. its a pretty tight knit community, and like or hate each other, names and info travel quick. its far more likley that your average person looking for comments on this sort of question, is new to the hobby and unaware of the implications with owning these animals, which is generally the endgame.
> and in this case i think the "D Bags" are people who assume everyone should look at a low post count or new join date and say, "of course that person has close to a decade of experience with darts" i sure as hell know i'm not a mind reader. my exes would be happy to confirm this.
> 
> james



Really? Some of you guys are way uptight....generally why I never join forums. Instead of having a healthy discussion on the rarest frogs in captivity to expand all of our knowledge, it becomes an argument or an issue on who knows more about what. It is completely rediculous. I never came on here and acted like someone was an ass. I just assumed I had the right to ask a simple question to get a discussion going no matter how many posts I have. I thought that is what discussion forums are about.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

In this hobby, rarity implies and translates to valuable. If you are interested in making conversation, perhaps a better thread title might be "What are the most interesting frogs people are working with". That takes the money equation out of the conversation.

Richard.



DARTGUY41 said:


> I'm not interested in owning the rarest frog I was just trying to make conversation on the board. In this hobby there are always new interesting frogs popping up. As for 7 posts....I guess because I only have 7 posts on the dendroboard community I know nothing about darts...wow. Been keeping herps my entire life and I got into darts over 2 years ago and have been successfully breeding since.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

I have often wondered the same thing, but after a while (and lots of reading) you just learn whats rare, whats common, what people are hoping to see soon, what should be coming in soon, what has been lost from the hobby, etc... This could become a very informative thread as long as the intentions are clear. I would love to learn more about some of the more rare species/morphs, why they are rare, and how we as a hobby can work together to stabilize/increase captive populations. I for one would feel much more fulfilled keeping a species/morph that may be disappearing from the hobby/wild, than I would just choosing my next frog on looks/personality. Anyone else think this is worthwhile? Should we start a new thread?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/45372-rare-frogs.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/21283-rare-frogs.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...yone-know-about-imports-other-rare-frogs.html
heres a few threads that discuss similar topics, so saying that im trying to take the thread off track (i DID comment on the original topic) and interrupt the discussion or flow of new info, is...not true, the topic has been discussed before, theres just not much new info to be obtained here anyway, or at least not info or discussion that hasnt occurred before and could be found easily.

anyway, i was just commenting on how its annoying to see people with low post counts get riled up because someone made the assumption that they were a new hobbyist. i had dart experience WELL before i joined the forum, but i certainly didnt call anyone names for making the same assumptions about me.

james


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## Golden State Mantellas (Mar 12, 2011)

As far as rare frogs goes, the discussion is purely speculative, as those keepers of the extremely rare are tight lipped, and rightly so. They want to avoid the never ending wave of questions like "where did you get those?" "Do you have any for sale," and "Can you send me pics?"

I just don't want you to be disappointed when people don't offer information about their or their friend's rare frogs.


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

Woodsman said:


> In this hobby, rarity implies and translates to valuable. If you are interested in making conversation, perhaps a better thread title might be "What are the most interesting frogs people are working with". That takes the money equation out of the conversation.
> 
> Richard.



I didn't ask what is the most interesting frog people are working with because that is just a matter of opinion. Someone could think their cobalts are the most interesting frogs they work with. I refuse to walk to eggshells on a discussion forum. I have no ill will towards anyone in this post but, it isn't like I said was.... what is the rarest most illegal frog I can get, how much is it worth, and who can I sell it to. I just asked a simple question trying to start an interesting conversation. Sorry to all I have offended.


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

The poster (me) did not call anyone any names....that was someone else's opinion. This thread is wayyy screwed up now.



james67 said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-
> discussion/45372-rare-frogs.html
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/21283-rare-frogs.html
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...yone-know-about-imports-other-rare-frogs.html
> ...


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

That is very understandable! I don't really care who has them, I just wanted to start a good topic to get to know some people.



Golden State Mantellas said:


> As far as rare frogs goes, the discussion is purely speculative, as those keepers of the extremely rare are tight lipped, and rightly so. They want to avoid the never ending wave of questions like "where did you get those?" "Do you have any for sale," and "Can you send me pics?"
> 
> I just don't want you to be disappointed when people don't offer information about their or their friend's rare frogs.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

You're not going to make many friends here with bringing up issues that you clearly know are imflammatory. Sounds like you know exactly what you are doing. Good luck in your search for the rarest frog.

Richard.



DARTGUY41 said:


> I didn't ask what is the most interesting frog people are working with because that is just a matter of opinion. Someone could think their cobalts are the most interesting frogs they work with. I refuse to walk to eggshells on a discussion forum. I have no ill will towards anyone in this post but, it isn't like I said was.... what is the rarest most illegal frog I can get, how much is it worth, and who can I sell it to. I just asked a simple question trying to start an interesting conversation. Sorry to all I have offended.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i think your misinterpreting peoples responses here. i know im not offended, i just wanted to shed some light on why its easy to expect that someone asking this question, together with low posts and recent join date, is new to the hobby. it just seemed like, for a second there, it was going to be an all out battle royale, about how knowledgeable you are and why someone (appearantly incorrectly) assumed you were new to darts. 

no eggshells, but rarity is just as loose a term as most interesting. rarity can have numerous definitions in the frog world, and because of this i'm afraid the thread was doomed from the start. its just too hard to get a straight answer to a question that is so loosely worded. 

and again theres no ill will (from my end at least)

james


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

Woodsman said:


> You're not going to make many friends here with bringing up issues that you clearly know are imflammatory. Sounds like you know exactly what you are doing. Good luck in your search for the rarest frog.
> 
> Richard.


How can I predict that some of you are so uptight over simple discussions. Anyone that reads this can see how aggressive some of you are in trying to turn this into a big FLAME. My intentions were completely innocent, as I was just trying to make a simple discussion post. I'm done with this discussion and possibly this forum all together. Way to welcome a new member guys.


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

I can understand your point...we all love these frogs and want to keep them safe, but maybe see how the post goes or ask me what my experience is with herps in general before assuming I'm 12. lol ....as for another member on this post...seems like he is dead set on hanging me out to dry.



james67 said:


> i think your misinterpreting peoples responses here. i know im not offended, i just wanted to shed some light on why its easy to expect that someone asking this question, together with low posts and recent join date, is new to the hobby. it just seemed like, for a second there, it was going to be an all out battle royale, about how knowledgeable you are and why someone (appearantly incorrectly) assumed you were new to darts.
> 
> no eggshells, but rarity is just as loose a term as most interesting. rarity can have numerous definitions in the frog world, and because of this i'm afraid the thread was doomed from the start. its just too hard to get a straight answer to a question that is so loosely worded.
> 
> ...


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i'll add some frogs to the list in an attempt to help you get the thread back on track

lorenzo tincs
tafelburg tincs
castis
blue truncatus
miniobates sp.
silverstonei
all obligates (including most if not all pumilio)
retics
excidobates sp.
etc
etc

james


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## Golden State Mantellas (Mar 12, 2011)

DARTGUY41 said:


> That is very understandable! I don't really care who has them, I just wanted to start a good topic to get to know some people.


I'm just explaining the rationale behind some of the remarks. If there are two things I've learned in a year of lurking and a few months of posting, it's that people tend to get annoyed with new posts on questions and discussions that have already been answered at length multiple times (that are also easily found using the search feature  ), and new posters asking questions about heated topics such as mixing species, inquiring about rare frogs, and giving incorrect advice.

Perhaps a better introduction would be to say "hi my name is xxx, these are my frogs, these are my vivs and this is my experience." 

Welcome to the boards, from one board n00b to another!


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Is there a thread out there that has pictures of day frogs that are illegal? I was trying to search for them it would be interesting to see the variety out there in the wild that is so hidden to hobbyist. Are there people frogs or red tincs?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

no
kind of
no

james


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

skylsdale said:


> How many are working with the "Salvias" form anymore?



I am, so that's 1 so far...


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## Feelin Froggy (May 12, 2011)

Just a comment about James' list. I got a first hand look at Lorenzo tincs the other day.. both adults and froglets.... And i have to be honest, that's a really cool looking frog!!! I have all thumbs and a couple of auratus, and hadn't really thought about keeping tincs for a long time but I might change my mind. Really interesting looking frog!!


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

boabab95 said:


> I am, so that's 1 so far...


Got about 50 tads swimming around also


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The rarest frog is the one you can't seem to find when you are looking for it. 

Ed


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

holy s*** people take it easy. i realize we have had some bad folks with bad track records start some stuff on here but that doesnt mean we should assume that about everyone new.

and while the 'salvias' population is becoming less common, as are some frogs considered "ugly", thats still nothing compared to some populations of Oophaga i mentioned. also, most of them came in legally originally, including species like lehmanni, so they count as well.

now i can think of seeing atleast 5 people with salvias, 2 with black auratus, 3 with moonshines, several with lorenzos and blue truncs, as well as a couple with castis somewhat recently.

'koi' sylvatica would probably be the rarest as jake said, followed by 'yellow' lehmanni. sylverstonei are definitely up there too, although UEs gonna bring in some CB stock from peru at some point.

some others could be 'pangala', 'blue banded', 'bullseye', and 'valley' histos, plus quite a few more.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Lance said:


> Got about 50 tads swimming around also


I have 2


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thedude said:


> sylverstonei are definitely up there too, although UEs gonna bring in some CB stock from peru at some point.


UE has silverstonei, but has been unsucessful in breeding attempts (from what i understand)

james


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

james67 said:


> UE has silverstonei, but has been unsucessful in breeding attempts (from what i understand)
> 
> james


I won't say this is accurate. Last I talked with Mark about Silverstonei he was having very lil success. Either with breeding or growing up froglets. He did say there might be some in 5 years time but we'll see what happens.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Lance said:


> I won't say this is accurate. Last I talked with Mark about Silverstonei he was having very lil success. Either with breeding or growing up froglets. He did say there might be some in 5 years time but we'll see what happens.


??? how are those contradictory?
james


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## Molch (Jul 15, 2011)

the rarest frog in the hobby is the one that cleans up his own tank.


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## Taron (Sep 23, 2009)

Cruziohyla craspedopous ....to my knowledge there is only three in the states.

Dart frog would be Oophaga speciousus



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

_Some _of the rarest darts in the US probably would be any number of Colombian Ranitomeya species as well as Colombian auratus.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

james67 said:


> UE has silverstonei, but has been unsucessful in breeding attempts (from what i understand)
> 
> james


at microcosm he talked a bit about it, they have gotten breeding success actually. one of the problems was color though, they are very dull compared to the WC parents. but i did say they would bring them in at some point...not soon.


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## leuc11 (Nov 1, 2010)

Ok we all know its azureus.......... but we all now im joking. I think its probably an escudo pum dont know allot of people who have those frogs.


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## jibfest (Dec 1, 2010)

Golden State Mantellas said:


> I'm just explaining the rationale behind some of the remarks. If there are two things I've learned in a year of lurking and a few months of posting, it's that people tend to get annoyed with new posts on questions and discussions that have already been answered at length multiple times (that are also easily found using the search feature  ), and new posters asking questions about heated topics such as mixing species, inquiring about rare frogs, and giving incorrect advice.
> 
> Perhaps a better introduction would be to say "hi my name is xxx, these are my frogs, these are my vivs and this is my experience."
> 
> Welcome to the boards, from one board n00b to another!


I guess this would be one reason for alot of members lack of posts Personaly I have never had a question that someone before me has'nt already asked. The search function has answered them all.


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## Peekskillfrogger (Jul 10, 2011)

jibfest said:


> I guess this would be one reason for alot of members lack of posts Personaly I have never had a question that someone before me has'nt already asked. The search function has answered them all.


(on the quote) This site makes it real easy by showing you similiar posts when you start a new thread which is really nice. But, I also dont see anything wrong with asking a question on the board thast already been answered. If people were just looking for information theres any number of places to get it. I thought the point of a forum like this is to have conversations with people who share the same hobby. Asking a question like "whats the rarest speices being kept" or something like that will probably have a different answer every couple years, so where the harm in asking?

(no longer talking about the quote) I dont get all the people who feel it necessary to post negative or real condescending and rude comments when people ask a conversational question like the one the op put forth. Maybe just abstain from the convo if its such an afront to your delicate sensibilities. 

Or if people are gonna be so fast to slam new posters, maybe there should be an interview process before people are allowed to post. Or even better they can do a background check on potential posters and require fecal samples from their frogs inorder to ensure they deserve to ask a question. Then we can form a governemnt in which everyone works based on a predetermined skill tests, in this system no one will make money we'll just pool it and the government can distribute food and every thing else we need to survive, and if anyone asks a frog question deemed unpalatable by the government they can take the op and lock him up until theyre views are exactly in line with the governments. And, eventually as a result of this everyone will think the same way, know the same thing, and behave in the same manner and we wont even need to ask questions anymore!

Long live the peoples republic of Dendroboard!


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## Varno (Oct 19, 2004)

Golden State Mantellas said:


> I'm just explaining the rationale behind some of the remarks. If there are two things I've learned in a year of lurking and a few months of posting, it's that people tend to get annoyed with new posts on questions and discussions that have already been answered at length multiple times (that are also easily found using the search feature  ), and new posters asking questions about heated topics such as mixing species, inquiring about rare frogs, and giving incorrect advice.
> 
> Perhaps a better introduction would be to say "hi my name is xxx, these are my frogs, these are my vivs and this is my experience."
> 
> Welcome to the boards, from one board n00b to another!


Awesome post, Mantella, but I also believe that this particular poster knows exactly what he is doing. I hope all newbies and lurkers get a chance to read your sound advice !


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

I had a pair of Atelopus balios once.....never found any info or other toads at the time nor ever again :-(


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## Peekskillfrogger (Jul 10, 2011)

JoshH said:


> I had a pair of Atelopus balios once.....never found any info or other toads at the time nor ever again :-(


wow josh... did they reproduce for you? I know that for about 15 years it was thought they had gone extinct in the wild. They were only recently rediscovered in ecuador. thats cool man I hope you were able to keep um going!


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

Peekskillfrogger said:


> wow josh... did they reproduce for you? I know that for about 15 years it was thought they had gone extinct in the wild. They were only recently rediscovered in ecuador. thats cool man I hope you were able to keep um going!


Heck no....they did fine for quite a long time but eventually died when I was on a vacation. To be fair the tank was not really appropriate for any Atelopus... They came in rough and no one at the time knew what they were or if they were even rare. Came out of a petstore in Baltimore as green spotted toads....

Crappy pic, but oh well...


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

That's really sad.



JoshH said:


> Heck no....they did fine for quite a long time but eventually died when I was on a vacation. To be fair the tank was not really appropriate for any Atelopus... They came in rough and no one at the time knew what they were or if they were even rare. Came out of a petstore in Baltimore as green spotted toads....
> 
> Crappy pic, but oh well...


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## cairo11 (Jan 8, 2011)

In my personal opinion--- 9out10 times the rarest and most elusive darts are not very appeling to me. But that is just me....I know rarity does add specialness to it...a sort of mistique....just because we really want, what is almost impossible to get...but my thought is this....if we got a few morphs out of every species and for a moment pretended that legality, endangerment and all those other factors which keep them from getting to our hobby didnt exist..... What frog would we think is the rarest or at least looked to be a rare and beautilful frog? I know for me, it would have to be one of the auratus morphs. If I had just seen my first 3 dart frogs ever....and it was super blue auratus, grannie,and a histo....Id really think that the auratus was the rarer frog...


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Feelin Froggy said:


> So Castro let a few of those out did he? Lol
> 
> Tclipse.... What's that frog in your avatar?


Ranitomeya bombetes, a Colombian Ranitomeya that has not been legally imported to the US. The picture was taken by a Colombian grad student @ the Universidad de Los Andes in Bogota, he was nice enough to email me the photo and let me use it. 

I had the opportunity to see these in person while visiting there and they are beautiful frogs.. I would love to own them if they are ever legally imported, but until then I have no interest in keeping them. 

To keep this thread positive, maybe we should focus on rare frogs that are here legally... if nothing else it might raise awareness of what is uncommon here but can be obtained without breaking laws/supporting smuggling. If it raises some interest in one or more of those species/morphs, 
it's one step towards keeping them from falling out of the hobby....


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## Feelin Froggy (May 12, 2011)

I see threads redone all the time. It's never s "bad" thing. Things change, new info and animals become available. Fun to keep things fresh as long as that's the intention.

Anyway, have there ever been bombetes brought in legally? I've seen a few pics and they are really freaking cool frogs. I would love to know more about their behavior as I haven't been able to find much online... Also, if anyone had pics of wild or captive animals (again as they were ever legal to be captive) I would love to see them!!!


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## Feelin Froggy (May 12, 2011)

You answered my question while I was writing it Teddy lol. I knew it was bombetes. That's why I put the wink wink lol... I think they are stunning!!! They could be s two dollar frog that lives in my backyard and I would still think they are awesome. 

Not a lit of info or pics that I could find online. I agree though since this is supposed to be an "in the hobby" thread. The focus should be on legally imported animals. Thanks for posting about your avatar pic!!!


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Feelin Froggy said:


> Also, if anyone had pics of wild or captive animals (again as they were ever legal to be captive) I would love to see them!!!


ARKive - Cauca poison frog videos, photos and facts - Ranitomeya bombetes
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ranitomeya/70662-ranitomeya-bombetes.html

You have probably already seen these, but I was just doing a little research so the links were already up.


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## cairo11 (Jan 8, 2011)

What about the r. Sirensis?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

rarity doesnt commonly change since the frogs that are generally considered rare, come from countries like costa rica, colombia, and ecuador, which all stopped vertebrate export over a decade ago. this is really the driving factor in the rarity of the animals, but it also means that there really isnt a changing attitude towards which frogs are rare and which arent. 

so barring the few rediscovered and new sp. to be smuggled, the same frogs that are "rare" have been for a long time. 

and of course theres an ebb and flow to species popularity in captivity, making some species that were common, less so, and visa versa.

james


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

And the ebb and flow of popularity can significantly affect the rariety of a frog as Ron noted back on I think page two


> We lost, for instance, the "Giron Valley" form of _E. anthonyi_ completely from the hobby sometime over the last decade


. 

It is hard to argue that a morph of a species going extinct in the hobby was not a very rare frog at one point.. and it is a very rare frog now as we no longer have it.... 

Ed


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Any number of Mantella species, including M. milotympanum, cowani, viridis, aff. expectata, nigricans, bernhardi, as well as any of the following:

P. lugubris
E. tricolor 
A. bassleri
P. aurotaenia
A. zaparo 
A. femoralis
A. hoogmoedi
A. castaneoticus
A. altamazonica

Point being, if you were to post a wanted ad looking for any of the above, chances are you wouldn't get a response.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

It was from the very first post.

s


DARTGUY41 said:


> The poster (me) did not call anyone any names....that was someone else's opinion. This thread is wayyy screwed up now.


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

Scott said:


> It was from the very first post.
> 
> s


Because I started a conversation on the rarest frogs in the hobby. I suppose I intentionally did this to start a major uproar in the dart community. Seriously....do some of you need an apology? I am so very sorry for assuming I could get a conversation started. So many people like to stir things up and act like I did this with malicious intent. I really had no idea of the anger this thread would cause. All I wanted to do was start contributing to the forum discussion. Seems like this forum is moderated horrible. I don't understand how this forum keeps new members around. Some people would rather just DISCUSS then use a search feature. Anyone can use a search feature....google is a great one...you can pull up discussions from any forum on google and never have to join. The point of joining is to contribute to the forum community and the discussions. To think that I joined this forum with such excitement, and even thought about donating to the site! Thank you to all of you that managed to actually treat me civilly.


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## DARTGUY41 (Aug 13, 2011)

peekskillfrogger said:


> (on the quote) this site makes it real easy by showing you similiar posts when you start a new thread which is really nice. But, i also dont see anything wrong with asking a question on the board thast already been answered. If people were just looking for information theres any number of places to get it. I thought the point of a forum like this is to have conversations with people who share the same hobby. Asking a question like "whats the rarest speices being kept" or something like that will probably have a different answer every couple years, so where the harm in asking?
> 
> (no longer talking about the quote) i dont get all the people who feel it necessary to post negative or real condescending and rude comments when people ask a conversational question like the one the op put forth. Maybe just abstain from the convo if its such an afront to your delicate sensibilities.
> 
> ...



great point!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Peekskillfrogger said:


> (Long live the peoples republic of Dendroboard!


Just a clarificaton.. this as with virtually all other forums are not a republic but a benevolent dictatorship.... 


Ed


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## Peekskillfrogger (Jul 10, 2011)

Ed said:


> Just a clarificaton.. this as with virtually all other forums are not a republic but a benevolent dictatorship....
> 
> 
> Ed


+1 it reminds alot of manhattan reefs on steroids. There was always plenty of flaming, but over there people actually enjoyed questions like the one the op put forth because it gave everyone an opportunity to post pics of their new $2000 angel fish, or $15,000 sfigoli light set up, or japanese deep water zoo that required them to refinance their house so they could buy one polyp. . I guess the main difference is people stayed away from threads they didnt like over there, where as here it almost seems like people are hoping a mixing thread or something liek that will pop up so they can bust out the virtual battle axe.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Because you didn't look for one of the half dozen conversations already had on it (on this board).

It's not a good topic. It's germane to money and most of us here care more about frogs than money.

s


DARTGUY41 said:


> Because I started a conversation on the rarest frogs in the hobby ...


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

another one rarely mentioned or seen, but quite beautiful would be Epipedobates silverstonei


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Peekskillfrogger said:


> +1 it reminds alot of manhattan reefs on steroids. There was always plenty of flaming, but over there people actually enjoyed questions like the one the op put forth because it gave everyone an opportunity to post pics of their new $2000 angel fish, or $15,000 sfigoli light set up, or japanese deep water zoo that required them to refinance their house so they could buy one polyp. . I guess the main difference is people stayed away from threads they didnt like over there, where as here it almost seems like people are hoping a mixing thread or something liek that will pop up so they can bust out the virtual battle axe.


 
There really hasn't been much flaming in this thread... if you want to see flaming look at the threads in the thunderdome and/or search up mixing threads. There has been some strong opinions posted here but nothing I would call serious flaming. There is a difference between strong opinions and flaming. If you are that sensitive to being challenged then you certainly don't want to try some of the other frog forums with these sorts of comments.. Dendroboard is the tamest of these forums. 

As was noted early in the thread, these threads are relatively common occurances on the forum and are often associated with newer people to the forum looking for the highest status frogs... as possession of those morphs/species often results in comments of jealousy and desire in many frog keepers which conveys status onto the keepers. For those of us who have been present in the hobby long-term those people are often only around for a couple of years and the frogs in thier possession often disappear which causes a decrease in the diversity of the gene pool which puts populations at more risk. This is why you get strong opinions presented to newer people who start these threads.

Some comments,

Ed


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