# Mantellas... can i keep them with dendrobatids ?



## Guest (Jan 30, 2006)

Can i keep mantellas with the dendrobatids ?


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Not a good idea. Mantellas require cooler temps then darts, mantellas are generally wild caught, therefore have higher chance of parasite loads which could infect and kill darts which dont have a defense for parasites found in madagascar. Many other reasons its not a good idea.

Sorry for the unwanted news,
Ryan


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I would also say its not highly recomended, for a couple other reasons as well. PDFs and Mantellas have different behavior patterns that don't really mix well (both groups are relatively aggressive, PDFs especially and mantellas wouldn't take this well). Mantellas are more "stream side" creatures while PDFs live away from water sources (transfering their tads to small collected pools of water, which mantellas don't do). Most Mantellas have very different temperature requirements than PDFs, tho this varies by species. Mantellas need seasonality where most PDFs don't. While Mantellas and PDFs are excellent examples of convergent evolution, they still hold key characteristics in their care that keep them from being listed as good candidates for mixing.

There is also a general rule that you never want to mix animals from just vastly different places, even if their environmental niche in the different places seems almost identical. Usually they aren't as iddentical as they seem, and the animals, being from such different places, have evolved to those very different places and often can't handle anything introduced that they didn't evolve with - pathogens esepcially. And like Ryan said, almost all Mantellas are wild caught, meaning they carry pathogens and parasites (that they might deal with just fine), where as the PDFs you have are relatively "clean", and might not have any defenses against something the Mantellas carry. So something a Mantella might carry with no issues could end up killing your PDF (and the other way around, Mantellas might not have defenses for what the PDFs are carrying, noth wild pathogens and the ones that float around with them in the hobby that might not have sources from wild PDFs, but other herps we keep as pets).

To get a good breeding group of mantellas going anyways, you need a good sized group in a really good sized tank, and there really just shouldn't be room for other frogs! lol.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2006)

Thanks for info,
Are Mantellas difficult to keep ?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I wouldn't say they are more difficult to keep than PDFs, just different, there is just less known about them, and you do have to factor in that you'll probibly be working wit WC animals which are not as hardy as CBs initially after import.

I'm just starting to really get into the mantellas and their food really isn't that different. Depending on species they might have varying temperature needs from the PDFs I keep. Main difference tends to be set up. Where you can keep a pair of azurues happy and breeding in a 10 gallon, mantellas need to be in groups (5+ animals) to breed, and need stream side set ups (with lots of moving water that PDFs normally would not like, but we tend to stick in our tanks anyways because we want a stream). Ed (Mantellaprince20) has some very nice mantella set ups, but they are pretty big, like 55 gallon set ups (I think that was a group of around 10 animals). You can keep them in smaller set ups like PDFs, but you won't breed them.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2006)

Thanks,
I'm thinking about the Mantellas but i know nothing about keeping them... maybe i will buy some new PDF's ?  Which temperature is best for Mantellas ?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

It really depends on the species, they can be from montaine (low to mid 60s) to PDF temps of being able to handle up the the 80s. Unfortunately there is not currently a good online reference to point you to  Hopefully that will be fixed in the near future.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

if you want to try mantellas i highly recommend M. laevigata, which are usually called "green backed mantellas" or "aboreal mantellas". they are the odd ball of the mantellas. they do fine at normal room temps, dont seem to need a seasonal year, and they breed like rabbits. i started with 2 the end of last august and was lucky enough to get a pair. by october they were breeding, by sometime in December the first froglett was out of the water, and as of last night im up to 2 adults and 3 frogletts in the tank plus whatever tadpoles are in their pond. they act more like a dart than a mantella. they are extreamly bold and the adults will refuse to move when im working in their tank unless they are actually touched. good frogs to start with. i believe all the other species are much harder to breed and need the seasons but i havent really had a chance to work with them yet.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2006)

at the moment i dont want to buy mantellas because i don't know exactly how 
to keep them i don't want to hurt these frogs... They are nice ...


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## vignolo (Mar 9, 2005)

Hi

I confirm what KeroKero, Ryan and rattler_mt said. If you want to seriously get in the hobby, go get Marc Staniszewski - Mantellas. This is the best reference to have.

Thanks
PL


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2006)

I must find this book  but where ?


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## vignolo (Mar 9, 2005)

Hi

I'm from Canada and got mine on ebay.ca. Maybe US residants will tell you were to buy it.

Make a little search on your own.

PL


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2006)

I have seen it on ebay but now i'm in Poland 

PS: I'm born in Canada  Really  But i live now in Poland... i'm from Quebec and i speak french, not english


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Dendrobatidae said:


> Can i keep mantellas with the dendrobatids ?


No, not unless you want you're house burnt down :lol: 
Just kidding, but really, it's not recomended. :wink:


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## vignolo (Mar 9, 2005)

Dendrobatidae

I speak french too. But this is an english board. If you want MP me.

Dancing frogs 

Not that false, not burn, but almost 

PL


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

rattler_mt said:


> if you want to try mantellas i highly recommend M. laevigata, which are usually called "green backed mantellas" or "aboreal mantellas". they are the odd ball of the mantellas. they do fine at normal room temps, dont seem to need a seasonal year, and they breed like rabbits. i started with 2 the end of last august and was lucky enough to get a pair. by october they were breeding, by sometime in December the first froglett was out of the water, and as of last night im up to 2 adults and 3 frogletts in the tank plus whatever tadpoles are in their pond. they act more like a dart than a mantella. they are extreamly bold and the adults will refuse to move when im working in their tank unless they are actually touched. good frogs to start with. i believe all the other species are much harder to breed and need the seasons but i havent really had a chance to work with them yet.


Let me add that M. laevigata is the one Mantella known to be primarily phytotelmous, much in the manner of Dendrobates. So it makes sense the behvior is closer. They are bamboo specialists, just like D. biolat. Heying has written some wonderful papers on them from the field.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

On canadart.org PDF forums there is also a french/Quebec section if you want to talk frogs in french 

Marc's book, while not my favorite, is probibly the only good reference currently out there. I know I was trying to get a couple of the mantella boys to get their information together for a web site, but we're all busy and such. Hopefully it will still happen.


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

just to confer with what everyone else has said, I don't like the idea of mixing things that don't occur more than 100 meters from each other, let alone on a whole other continent . Parasites are a big problem, and possibly pathogens from madagascar which the mantella's have a tolerance too. Keeping the two together would be detrimental to one or the other, no doubt. 

On the other side, mantella's are just as enjoyable, and fun to care for as darts, provided you do it right . If you want me to fill you in on care for mantella's, email or pm me, and I can type you up a good care sheet. The main difference between darts and mantella's is they are way harder to breed than darts in general (species dependent, Iknow rattler, lol, laevi's are horny buggers), and they need cooler temps and seasonal cycles. An overlooked aspect of mantellas is that they generally have a longer photoperiod than darts, which again is seasonally dependent. (can't think, is the last vowel in dependent an "e" or "a"?) Darts generally have a constant 12 hours of sunlight every day, regardless of time of year, where mantella's range from 12 hours up to 14 hours of sunlight, as they are a few degrees latitude further south. My mantella's generally get 14 hours of light all year except during their dry season, which I cut down to 12. ANyway, let me know if you need more info, they are very cool frogs, and the more people knowledgeable in them, the better. ( I am one of the persons Kerokero is referring to to put up mantella info , which is still getting worked on, no worries corey  ). Take care,

ed parker


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## vignolo (Mar 9, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> On canadart.org PDF forums there is also a french/Quebec section if you want to talk frogs in french
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I know this board, but I prefer coming here and practice my english as well and get more accurate informations.
> ...


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2006)

I keep PDF's  In a large number  11


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Here's some advantages and disadvantages...

Advantages

Mantellas, unlike dendrobates, do not seem to need to eat as much. You can relax a little if your food supply crashes and must wait for your order to come in the mail. My mantellas will not even eat every day even if there is a hoarde of food in there.

Plus, something that can be a lifesaver, they will take small crickets (in fact, if they have the choice between crickets and fruit flies, they take crickets) . My food supply just crashed the other day, and while I was worried about the darts, I went out today and easily bought some baby crickets from the petstore and threw them into my betsileo tank. They seem to be able to take 1/4" without much problems, but occassionally the larger species (betsileo, viridis, expectata) will take on 1/2" if they are really hungry (I wouldn't recommend that though if you can avoid it, in case the crickets turn the tables on the frog while it sleeps at night).

If you have more problems with the cold, mantellas will love you, particularly the highland species. My mantellas have experienced day temps this winter down to 66 and nights around 60 just fine.

Disadvantages though. Like everybody else harps about, they don't seem to tolerate high temps as well...at least the highland types like aurantiaca.

Lowlanders seem to like it about what most the "common" dart species like, say 68-78 during the day, with the ideal around 72-76 (at least my betsileo like that range the most).

Many types can be very shy...but often many say that is because the frogs are being kept too warm, not humid enough, and NO RUNNING water. Running water get male mantellas interested in breeding, and definitely increase their level of activity.

Breeding is more challenging. They need to be cycled and have a good running water feature. I haven't had the chance yet, but my frogs are near the end of the winter rest.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

You can get to Marc's book on his site thru my site http://mysite.verizon.net/vze88zuk


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