# Check Out My New Viv Cabinet



## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I got into frogs six months ago...and look at me now! Just wanted to share my new project with everyone. I have a wonderful neighbor with carpentry skills who built a cabinet to house my vivs. It is a 6'x 4' and will hold four Exo Terra 18x12x12 and two ZooMed 18x12x12 vivs As you can tell by the size of my vivs, I like thumbnails. All of the tanks are going to have Monsoon misters, 40mm internal circulation fans, waterfalls, drains, and custom cut glass tops. I have attached some photos of the cabinet, which I just stained prior to final assembly.


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## ExoticPocket (Dec 23, 2010)

Very nice rack(for the tanks). I didn't know that exo-terra and zoomed make 18x12x12 inch tanks...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow! Very nice. Can't wait to see them finished and full. That's a step beyond a bakers rack!
I'm guessing from the look of the rack she means 12" x 12" x 18" (height is always listed last)


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

That is really classy!


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## bobrez (Sep 10, 2011)

Very nice, interested in what lighting fixture you will be using.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I am going to use 12" Exo Terra and 12" ZooMed lamps with UVB 26w in each. Tonight, I worked on glass tops and fan compartments. Maybe it is me, but I like a heavier glass for my tops. The glass size is 11 1/8" x 11 1/8" x 3/16". I own a glass grinder (another of my hobbies is stained glass), which I used to cut appropriately sized notches in the tops to accomodate door hinges, misting system tubing, and water pump wiring.

I am constructing small glass fan boxes to mount on the viv glass tops. Their dimensions are (L) 2 1/2" x (W) 2 1/2" x (H) 1 3/4" with a notch cut for the fan wire. I cut an oblong hole in the glass viv top that permits a 40mm computer cooling fan to draw air from the viv into the back of the fan box and exhaust it back into the viv toward the viv's glass front doors. A piece of fiberglass screen will stop the frogs from getting into the fans. The fans are mounted at approx a 10-15 degree angle to direct air toward the doors. My hope is to cut down on condensation on the front glass while providing circulation for my plants. We will see if it works.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Very nice cabinet! I love custom!

I've been thinking about doing something very similar with fans. I'll be tagging along to see how it works out for you.

Cheers


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

froggie too said:


> I am going to use 12" Exo Terra and 12" ZooMed lamps with UVB 26w in each. Tonight, I worked on glass tops and fan compartments. Maybe it is me, but I like a heavier glass for my tops. The glass size is 11 1/8" x 11 1/8" x 3/16". I own a glass grinder (another of my hobbies is stained glass), which I used to cut appropriately sized notches in the tops to accomodate door hinges, misting system tubing, and water pump wiring.
> 
> I am constructing small glass fan boxes to mount on the viv glass tops. Their dimensions are (L) 2 1/2" x (W) 2 1/2" x (H) 1 3/4" with a notch cut for the fan wire. I cut an oblong hole in the glass viv top that permits a 40mm computer cooling fan to draw air from the viv into the back of the fan box and exhaust it back into the viv toward the viv's glass front doors. A piece of fiberglass screen will stop the frogs from getting into the fans. The fans are mounted at approx a 10-15 degree angle to direct air toward the doors. My hope is to cut down on condensation on the front glass while providing circulation for my plants. We will see if it works.


Very interesting take on internal circulation. Keeps it all up out of the viv without all the ductwork. I like it. My one concern is that the hole at the back (to pull air from inside the viv to feed the fan) is much smaller than the fan size and the hole to push air back into the viv. This will choke down your overall air flow somewhat.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

The cabinet is GORGEOUS!! Can't wait to see it installed!


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

I love it! Please keep us posted with pics on how it’s coming together!


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Very interesting take on internal circulation. Keeps it all up out of the viv without all the ductwork. I like it. My one concern is that the hole at the back (to pull air from inside the viv to feed the fan) is much smaller than the fan size and the hole to push air back into the viv. This will choke down your overall air flow somewhat.


yeah im having great concerns with your flow theory.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I hate when people are right. Ha Ha. Pumilo is correct. The opening for the fan box intake is 1/2" too small. My husband did the math for me. The fans do work but only dry a space 3-4" wide on the front glass. I will modify the fan boxes at some point. Have been working on drains. I installed small plastic spigots in the rear walls of my vivs, which drain into a PVC pipe leading to a sump in the bottom of my cabinet. This arrangement seems to work well.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

The last four days I have been really busy. Here are photos of the five vivs in my cabinet. I have room for a sixth viv.

I just realized I did not take photos of viv builds in progress. Sorry. When i build the sixth viv, i will make sure i take photos during construction.

All the vivs in my cabinet have water running in them. When I went to to the cloud forest in Costa Rica, I saw there was dripping or running water on trees and rocks all over. I have tried to dupicate that environment on a small scale. My Benny loves her rock wall. I see her in the water at least once a day. She likes to sit in the slow moving water.

The vivs have egg crate bottoms. To keep debris out of the waterfall pumps and facilitate access / cleaning, the pumps are housed inside 4" diameter / 4" tall PVC pipe enclosures with holes drilled in them to admit water. PVC drain caps cover the enclosure tops.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Here is my new viv cabinet with all my new builds in it.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

looks pretty freaking awesome 

I love how you went with the natural wood look. Looks beautiful. I'm glad you didn't use any dark stains. I love seeing the grains in the wood 

Love the drawers in the bottom and your drain system 
Where do you have the water draining to you said to a sump but I don't see the sump, but what do you need the sump for are you returning the drain water somewhere?
What are you using for lighting?

Just fantastic...you thought of everything lol


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow, looks great! I do believe your fan setup will work. You just need to open up that intake a little more. How many CFM are your fans capable of moving?


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

For Brandon:

The sump is not visible in the photos. It is basically a 2.5 gallon water bottle with a pour spout. The center of the spigot has been removed with a soldering iron and a 3/4" flexible tube has been inserted. The RS 400 Monsoon mister has a 2 gallon reservoir, so as long as I dump the sump when I fill the mister, I should never have a problem. I do not recycle the water, due to cross-contamination concerns. The diameter of the holes in the drain pipe below each tank drain spigot is larger than the spigots to prevent contamination of a viv from the drain.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Doug,

The viv fans are Scythe "Mini Kaze" 40mm Silent Fans. They are rated at 4.11 CFM. They are very, very quiet The open area in vivs is a bit over 1 cu ft., so at full flow, the air in the vivs will theoretically circulate 3-4 times per minute. With the undersized fan box inlets, the actual flow rate is no doubt something less than 4.11 CFM.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

froggie too said:


> Doug,
> 
> The viv fans are Scythe "Mini Kaze" 40mm Silent Fans. They are rated at 4.11 CFM. They are very, very quiet The open area in vivs is a bit over 1 cu ft., so at full flow, the air in the vivs will theoretically circulate 3-4 times per minute. With the undersized fan box inlets, the actual flow rate is no doubt something less than 4.11 CFM.


Low flow is better than no flow, but that is pretty low. You may need more powerful fans to really do the job. I use 21 CFM fans in most of my builds.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Looks pretty spiffy 

What are you using for lighting?


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Brandon,

The lights are 12" Exo Terra or 12" Zoo Med lamps with UVB 26w in each, placed on top of each tank.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

That looks great with all the tanks in


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## moraki (Nov 5, 2011)

Nice set up, i like the quality oak cabinet over the cheap plywood / pine boxes you tend to see alot of the time. Ive always been tempted to build something like this. Ill either do this or an idea i saw was a bit more refined but didnt hold nearly as much. It was essentially a gutted grandfather clock turned into a viv. hummm which way to go ....

I think some people were just confused by the usage of the word sump. Your sump definitely falls under the dictionary definition of a sump, but most people are used to it being used in vivs as a recirculating / overflow / filter set up like larger fish tanks tend to use.


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

froggie too said:


> Brandon,
> 
> The lights are 12" Exo Terra or 12" Zoo Med lamps with UVB 26w in each, placed on top of each tank.


"UVB 26w in each"


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Here is the build on my last viv in progress. To install a drain spigot in the rear glass of the viv, I measured the height of the air vents in the front below the doors. Then I marked the rear glass for hole cutting at a level that ensured the spigot would drain the viv before the water level reached the front air vents. I cut the drain hole with a stained glass grinder. While at the stained glass store, i found that you can purchase a cutter tip that goes on a drill. which would be handy if you don't have a grinder. You just need to spray the glass with a spray bottle of water periodically to keep the glass cool and get a cleaner cut.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

froggie too said:


> Here is the build on my last viv in progress. To install a drain spigot in the rear glass of the viv, I measured the height of the air vents in the front below the doors. Then I marked the rear glass for hole cutting at a level that ensured the spigot would drain the viv before the water level reached the front air vents. I cut the drain hole with a stained glass grinder. While at the stained glass store, i found that you can purchase a cutter tip that goes on a drill. which would be handy if you don't have a grinder. You just need to spray the glass with a spray bottle of water periodically to keep the glass cool and get a cleaner cut.


yup yup most know about the glass drill bit and many use them to cut their holes 
I am a bit worried your drain might be a bit too high.

UVB is rather pointless cause the glass phases the UVB out. The UVB doesn't penetrate through the glass.
Inhabitants only benefit from UVB bulbs of there is a screen top.


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## ckays (Jul 26, 2011)

> UVB is rather pointless cause the glass phases the UVB out. The UVB doesn't penetrate through the glass.
> Inhabitants only benefit from UVB bulbs of there is a screen top.


Screens are practically just as poor at allowing UVB/A transmission as glass. Unless you have a screen with spacing so big you could call it a window, UVB will only transmit through Low Iron glass or air sufficiently enough to be beneficial to tank inhabitants.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Trust me....the drains are not too high. I measured carefully and had my husband verify it before I cut the hole.

Today I worked on the sixth and final viv build for the cabinet. This viv will be for reticulata, which according to my research, are native to an area with an 88 degree average temp. In this viv, I am going to experiment with a feature intended to raise the temperature in the viv relative to the other vivs in the cabinet. There will be a water feature as in my other vivs, using a Zoo Med waterfall kit. This one will also have an Aqueon Submersible Aquarium Heater in the substrate, with the temperature set at 88 degrees. Hopefully, the warm water circulating in the viv will increase the air temp a few degrees. If it does not work out, I'll just unplug it.

I have attached a few photos showing how I installed the plumbing for my water features. To isolate the water pumps from the hydro balls in the substrate and provide access to the pumps for maintenance, I enclosed them in a section of 4 inch PVC drain pipe covered by a PVC floor drain cap. Holes were drilled in the pipe to admit water, but not hydro balls, into the enclosure. The drain cap is covered by a piece of plastic garden weed block, which allows water into the pump but will not admit dirt.

The acquarium heater in the last viv mounted to the bottom of the viv and is enclosed by #7 mesh plastic canvas, (normally used for needlepoint) to keep it from contacting anything but water.

I am attaching a few photos of this stuff in case anyone is interested. Any comments, better ideas, or cautionary suggestions are welcome, as always.


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## ynotnad (Dec 21, 2009)

Another option for heating would be to use a heating cable system that you can put both in the water and into your substrate. This would allow you to distribute the heat more evenly through out your tank and help keep the temperature consistent. 

The systems are not expensive and the temperature can be adjusted. Hydro Hydrokable makes a heating cable with their own controller and Exo Terra also has a heating cable that can be used with the Hydro controller or either of the cables can be used with a Hydrofarm MTPRTC digital thermostat for heat mats. There are also other brands out there but these are the ones I have done the most research on. 

Tony


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Tony,

Thanks much for bringing the heater cables to my attention. I had not seen them before and they look like they would work well.

I've been monitoring the heat in my viv, and it is averaging 86.5F and 88F halfway to the bottom. That is the temperature range I was hoping to achieve, so I'm pretty happy with the way it worked out. At night, the top portion of the viv drops about a 3 degrees and the bottom drops about 1 degree with the light off. An interesting side effect is that the glass on the bottom portion of the viv does not fog up as much as those without a heater. Meanwhile, the humidity stays at about 86%.

Next time I need to put heat in a viv, I might try your suggestion.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

froggie too said:


> Tony,
> 
> Thanks much for bringing the heater cables to my attention. I had not seen them before and they look like they would work well.
> 
> ...


Idk what you are gonna put in there but temps for PDFs are generally between 72-80 degrees. I think I have read somewhere that larger darts might be able to be kept at higher temps but you temps seem rather high.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I am getting some Ranitomeya Reticulater from Understory in March. I found out that Iquitos average temp is 88F. From Understory web site.This tiny gem is distributed primarily in the lowland forests surrounding the city of Iquitos. The forests here are hot and humid, with daytime temperature soaring often above 90F; even under the canopy, the temperatures may be stifling. Reticulata is a terrestrial frog, climbing only to deposit tadpoles in the guzmania and other bromeliads that often grow in abundance in the lower strata of the forests


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Keep in mind that Reticulata are terrestrial, even though they are small, they require a lot of floor space, more floor space than most thumbs. They also tend to do best with lots of leaf litter.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

thanks for the info.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

and no one else want's to address this temperature issue?
Maybe I am wrong but from what I have read on many caresheets and whatnot 86-88 is high for PDFs especially thumbnails.
I am not trying to start anything but I really that those temps are rather high.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> and no one else want's to address this temperature issue?


I think the temps are too high as well, especially in a small tank. I'd be aiming for 78F at the top of the tank and lower temps at the bottom. I think it's risky myself.

Looking great though!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Agreed. In the wild frogs can better use evaporative cooling. You mention that Reticulata come from an area that soars up into the high 80's and even over 90, but I would be willing to bet that these temperatures were not taken down in the shade, under the leaf litter, which is where the Reticulata would be spending most of their time. 
I keep thumbnails and my viv temps may get as high as 84 or 85 way up at the top, but the middles are closer to 75 and down in the leaf litter may get as low as 68 to 72.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

The consensus here seems to be that the temps in this viv are too high, and your points are well taken. My objective is to reasonably duplicate the temps in the natural habitat for this species, but as is often the case, replicating Mother Nature on a small scale is not simple.

The viv will not be occupied until March. In the interim, I'm going to research this some more and make adjustments as needed.

Kenda


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

froggie too said:


> The consensus here seems to be that the temps in this viv are too high, and your points are well taken. My objective is to reasonably duplicate the temps in the natural habitat for this species, but as is often the case, replicating Mother Nature on a small scale is not simple.
> 
> The viv will not be occupied until March. In the interim, I'm going to research this some more and make adjustments as needed.
> 
> Kenda


Yeah I'm glad others weighed in on that and I hope you get it all worked out. 
Hopefully the temps aren't that high on the other vivs as well.
When you compact things together and enclose things heat builds up more.
I would install some fans around the lights cause I'm sure that is where most of your heat comes from.
I'm sure you and your ole man will be able to figure something out you did such a great job on everything so I'm sure it won't take long to fix


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I contacted Understory (the source of my original info on the reticulata's native habitat). They told me their vivs are maintained between 72 and 80F, with 76F the optimum. They get down to 72 at night, target 76 during the day, and on the hottest summer days might get up to 80. So my viv was clearly too hot and I have unplugged the heater. My "ole man" and I are going to add fans to remove some of the heat from the lights and see what that does to our viv temps. Thanks to all who contributed for keeping me out of trouble with high temps.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

froggie too said:


> I contacted Understory (the source of my original info on the reticulata's native habitat). They told me their vivs are maintained between 72 and 80F, with 76F the optimum. They get down to 72 at night, target 76 during the day, and on the hottest summer days might get up to 80. So my viv was clearly too hot and I have unplugged the heater. My "ole man" and I are going to add fans to remove some of the heat from the lights and see what that does to our viv temps. Thanks to all who contributed for keeping me out of trouble with high temps.


Thanks, that's good info to have. It's about what I'm keeping my Reticulata at. Good to know I'm right about where Mark runs his.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

froggie too said:


> I contacted Understory (the source of my original info on the reticulata's native habitat). They told me their vivs are maintained between 72 and 80F, with 76F the optimum. They get down to 72 at night, target 76 during the day, and on the hottest summer days might get up to 80. So my viv was clearly too hot and I have unplugged the heater. My "ole man" and I are going to add fans to remove some of the heat from the lights and see what that does to our viv temps. Thanks to all who contributed for keeping me out of trouble with high temps.


You're very welcome.
I am glad I brought it up a 2nd time cause the first time went unnoticed lol.
I hope you didn't mind me calling him your "ole man" cause at that moment I didn't know what to call him and I was being a bit to lazy to go read if you said he was your husband or just boyfriend lol.
I hope he didn't take offence


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

No offense taken. I'm pushing 60, so I guess some would consider me an old man.

Dave 
(Kenda's Ol' Man)


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

froggie too said:


> No offense taken. I'm pushing 60, so I guess some would consider me an old man.
> 
> Dave
> (Kenda's Ol' Man)


well I meant ole as in good ole guy and whatnot 
Oh well it evidently means old haha
Nice to meet you Dave.
You and Kinda did a great job 

What kinda wood is that and did you use a light stain or just went right for the poly?


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

He didn't take offense. We laughed. David is a very reserved and proper character. First time some one has called him my ol' man. He liked it. Frogs started out being my hobby, but now he is claiming the frogs. Watching them almost as much as me.

I used a cherry stain on red oak and then poly. That part was easy. The hard part is my middle viv is running a little hot, even with the heater off. We are working on a fan to cool it off. The problem is the vivs on either side do not need help.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

froggie too said:


> He didn't take offense. We laughed. David is a very reserved and proper character. First time some one has called him my ol' man. He liked it. Frogs started out being my hobby, but now he is claiming the frogs. Watching them almost as much as me.
> 
> I used a cherry stain on red oak and then poly. That part was easy. The hard part is my middle viv is running a little hot, even with the heater off. We are working on a fan to cool it off. The problem is the vivs on either side do not need help.


Yeah that one would be the hottest since it is insulated by the other vivs in a way. 
What type of lighting are you used.
Love the look of the wood and oak is my favorite to work with. 
I use to have a oak drawing desk I made but I moved out and dood said he would hold onto it for me and he did the opposite. I never put a finish on the wood tho I was afraid to cause it was awesome just natural.

Oak was a great choice for your cabinet I bet it is very sturdy.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Had to post our newest additions. Maybe you can guess what they are.


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