# My fruit fly culturing cabinet



## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

I tried using a sterilite 3 drawer tower with a reptile heat mat on the bottom, but that didn't seem to be working too well. 

I decided to convert a cubby in a 4 cube storage shelf into my FF culture cabinet. It was a quick and simple conversion. Hopefully I'll be able to get a non functioning mini fridge or a small RV fridge from work when one comes available to convert.

I cut 2 pieces of plywood to close off the back of the cubby and to make a door. Lined the cubby with reflectix insulation. Installed a light socket on the back wall hooked up to a thermostat. Installed a 5 volt circulation fan with usb plug powered by a phone charger plugged into the light bulb base. 25 watt bulb as the heat source. I tried a 50 watt ceramic heat bulb, but it took too long to heat the space and got too hot to feel comfortable it wouldn't cause a fire.

For humidity I have a deli container filled with water and a folded up paper towel pinned up to the side wicking water from the deli container.

Temp stays around 78°F and humidity level ranges from 70 -75%.

So far seems to be working well. I figure I'll top off the water bowl once a week when I start a new culture.


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## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

Was having issues trying to load pics from mobile. Trying again on my desktop.


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## Moxie (Mar 7, 2020)

Are you having success with this method?


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## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

Moxie said:


> Are you having success with this method?


Yes. Well at least I think so. This is my first time culturing fruit flies so don't have anything to compare it to.

The first culture I started 12 days ago has a bunch of pupae on the side wall of the cup. Before putting it in this cabinet I did see some larvae, but it seemed to take off more after placing it in the cabinet. Some have already hatched and should see a lot more flies in the next couple of days. The second culture that I started 4 days ago, I see some small larvae crawling around.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

TBH this seems kinda unnecessary. Unless the room you are culturing in is very cold. If it's close to room temperature your flies will be perfectly comfortable and will produce just fine.

Personally I would not risk the fire hazard and think the light will at worse cook the flies at best dry up the media faster so it's probably causing more harm than good.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

agree - enclosed areas and heated areas don't work for culturing.. Well, they work, but are wildly inefficient. 

Cxs need airflow and non direct heat.

Also any cabinets and corner and crevices are 'mite super highways'. Watch em walk! Do not have the cups touching each other for this same reason.

The best fly cxing surface, I've found is a large restaurant tray lined with mite paper.


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## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

The cups aren't touching each other and I have DE powder down on the floor of the cabinet. My apartment is 70°. Culture temp sitting out in the apartment were about 68 - 69°. The temp of the cultures in the cabinet are 77 - 79°. 

As long as I fill the water dish the humidity should be sufficient. Right now the humidity in my apartment is 35%.

While a cabinet may not be ideal, it is better than the conditions in my apartment for culturing flies.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

The conditions in your apartment are just fine for culturing fruit flies. Look I get having an idea in your head and not wanting to scrap it, but 2 people who have been doing this a while now have told you it's not the best idea. 

The fact you live in an apartment is all the more reason to scrap this idea. If you are just putting yourself/home/family at risk of a fire that's one thing but putting everyone else in the apartment at risk takes it to another level.

Trust me there is quite a bit of risk and absolutely no reward. There is no reason to do this and quite a few reasons not to.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Reflectix isn't particularly a fire hazard (Class A rating). A person could rig up a heat shield/diffuser for added precaution pretty easily, or move the heat source if there were some melting or other signs of excess localized heat. 

I, too, prefer cxs in ambient conditions -- it works fine (lower temps spread out the production of the FFs so that booms aren't so boomy) and actually gives me more knowledge over time as I fine tune the media to sync with ambient conditions (e.g. use a little more water in winter). 

Some folks like more precise control over conditions, though; there are certainly plenty of us here who are like that. 

Report back with results over time, if you would? Maybe when you get the hang of cx'ing, running a matching batch of cxs in ambient conditions would be an interesting comparison.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Reflectix isn't a fire hazard but the wooden cabinet it's in is.

Also from the picture it looks like the water dish is directly under the light bulb?!? 

OP also mentioned how they thought a 50w might be a fire hazard so they went with a 25w bulb. What are they basing these assumptions on?

Personally I think it's reckless and don't think anyone should be encouraging this.

Just a background of why I am passionate about this. I had incandescent bulbs over my frogs when I first started with them. Had the light running for months if not a year or more. One day I was in my frog room and noticed the lighting fixture was smoking. When I investigated the fixture as well as the plastic components on my lid were melting. I thought about what could have happened if I wasn't right there and decided I couldn't live with myself if something did and ultimately was my fault. I bought LED's and will NEVER use incandescent bulbs again. 

Maybe I'm overreacting but unless an expert on fire safety can chime in IMO this is reckless.


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## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

The reason I didn't go with the 50 watt ceramic heat lamp was due to it reaching very high Temps (400°+). The surface of the reflectix right near the lamp got to 200+°. With a 25w incandescent bulb the temps are much lower. Temp of reflectix above the bulb right after the bulb turns off is 114°. The surface of the bulb is 99°.

The water dish is a bit in front of the bulb.

I'll do a comparison when I make a new culture this week. 1 in the cabinet and 1 in the open air.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

we (most of us) are beyond productivity compassions now, and more interested in safety. 

THIS is exactly the tough discussion that led the general public to flee the forums unto the safety of the 'McDonalds fast food drive thru lane' that is Facebook.

But, man oh man, is this discussion on point and nessa.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

thedudeabides said:


> Just a background of why I am passionate about this. I had incandescent bulbs over my frogs when I first started with them. Had the light running for months if not a year or more. One day I was in my frog room and noticed the lighting fixture was smoking. When I investigated the fixture as well as the plastic components on my lid were melting. I thought about what could have happened if I wasn't right there and decided I couldn't live with myself if something did and ultimately was my fault. I bought LED's and will NEVER use incandescent bulbs again.


Important story, and I do agree: incandescents can be very dangerous, especially in homemade and poorly designed (i.e. most pet products  ) equipment. Thanks for sharing this. Honestly, I think we need more "look at how bad this turned out" sorts of threads -- too many "look at how well this is going" threads is a biased sample.

OP, it sounds like you are taking some precautions, but please do be careful. We want to you stick around!


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## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

If I didn't feel safe doing what I'm doing I wouldn't be doing it. Which is why I bailed on using the ceramic heat bulb.

Started up 2 new cultures tonight. 1 is in the cabinet and 1 is on a shelf above a fish tank. I tried to put an even number of flies in each cup, but its hard to count those little buggers. I think the culture on the shelf has a few more than the other one.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

I'm sorry if I am beating a dead horse and if I am I will stop but just for curiosities sake why are you so worried about ff production? How many frogs are you planning on keeping? 

Not to get on a soap box here but I think a lot of new pdf keepers get on facebook and see the videos saying, "look at the ff production we get from our special brand of media," when they should be saying, "look at this culture that is going to crash in a week." If people want to spend $10 on a 6 oz jar of ff media more power to them, I'll stick to my diy media where I make many many times that for half the cost. It's not like your frogs are deriving that much nutrition from the fruit flies themselves more so the supplements attached to them. OK end rant.

Personally if you're worried about ff production I would advise making more cultures over trying to get as many out of one culture as you can. This way you have back ups in case anything happens and they are less prone to sudden crashes.

At the end of the day I think people sometimes get a little caught up on fruit flies. Don't get me wrong they are one of the most important aspects of the hobby to get down pat. But let's face it those same fruit flies in your culture would be just as happy living in the dumpster in the back alley of some Chinese restaurant.


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## Cawdeen (Jan 1, 2019)

I sort of prefer a slower producing culture. The media lasts longer, there is much less ff death in the cup, and it generally just smells better and cleaner. I’ve noticed the number of flies seeded makes a big difference in this but I’d suspect the temp probably does as well. I’ve had flies produce well in temps in the 60’s. I’d think slower production in two cups would be better and more hygienic than an exploding, cramped population in one hot cup filled with desperate dying flies. The culturing also produces a lot of CO2 and good airflow is important. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

thedudeabides said:


> I'm sorry if I am beating a dead horse and if I am I will stop but just for curiosities sake why are you so worried about ff production? How many frogs are you planning on keeping?
> 
> Not to get on a soap box here but I think a lot of new pdf keepers get on facebook and see the videos saying, "look at the ff production we get from our special brand of media," when they should be saying, "look at this culture that is going to crash in a week." If people want to spend $10 on a 6 oz jar of ff media more power to them, I'll stick to my diy media where I make many many times that for half the cost. It's not like your frogs are deriving that much nutrition from the fruit flies themselves more so the supplements attached to them. OK end rant.


I think most novices who try to fine tune their FF production do so more for peace of mind against crashes and extremely poor production than they do to maximize flies per culture -- that is, they are not shooting for the moon, but rather hoping simply to stay in orbit.

I can't speak to those poor souls who think YouTube is a good source for animal care information, but I personally use premix media because (a) it works, (b) it cheap, and (c) my life is busy enough. We can applaud people who make their own FF media (or bar soap, or clothing, or 3D printed coffee makers or whatever the kids are doing these days) while admitting that this route is not for everyone, and can be intimidating to those who are just entering the hobby. Presumably each of us were novices once; presumably each of us can recall all the uncertainty involved with that stage of the hobby.


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## Cawdeen (Jan 1, 2019)

I might have to knock on wood after typing this but I barely think about the flies. I mix it up, dump em in, and stick it on a shelf. I make a new culture every week or week and a half and haven’t had any problems. I’ve kept the same line going for 2 1/2 years now and haven’t had to buy any since that first culture I bought.
So yeah, don’t overthink it.

That little cabinet you made might be great for culturing dwarf isopods though since they prefer it a little warmer and produce way slower than fruit flies. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I think most novices who try to fine tune their FF production do so more for peace of mind against crashes and extremely poor production than they do to maximize flies per culture -- that is, they are not shooting for the moon, but rather hoping simply to stay in orbit.
> 
> I can't speak to those poor souls who think YouTube is a good source for animal care information, but I personally use premix media because (a) it works, (b) it cheap, and (c) my life is busy enough. We can applaud people who make their own FF media (or bar soap, or clothing, or 3D printed coffee makers or whatever the kids are doing these days) while admitting that this route is not for everyone, and can be intimidating to those who are just entering the hobby. Presumably each of us were novices once; presumably each of us can recall all the uncertainty involved with that stage of the hobby.


I get what you are trying to say but I think what op is trying to do will lead to more crashes and less piece of mind, a couple people who have been culturing ff for a while have said as much. Things like mites and mold have the potential to proliferate in the conditions created.

Just out of curiosity when you say cheap how cheap are we talking? It costs me around $5 to make a batch of media that lasts ~ 3-4 months.

As for it being time consuming if you don't count having to go to the grocery store (which I don't cuz I have to go there anyway) it takes me literally 1 minute to make the media. So those examples don't really compare. 

As far as it working so does mine but for a whole hell o' lot less. 

I get being intimidated when entering the hobby and paying for convenience but I think paying for ff media is $ that could be better spent elsewhere, like more frogs .


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

thedudeabides said:


> Just out of curiosity when you say cheap how cheap are we talking? It costs me around $5 to make a batch of media that lasts ~ 3-4 months.


Cheap: not enough money involved to even worry about it. Saving single-digit dollars over a period of months isn't in itself a thrilling pursuit for me, especially when my current practices work. 

The discussion about media choices in this thread is irrelevant anyway.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Philsuma said:


> we (most of us) are beyond productivity compassions now, and more interested in safety.
> 
> THIS is exactly the tough discussion that led the general public to flee the forums *unto* the safety of the 'McDonalds fast food drive thru lane' that is Facebook.


Yeah, that and the pompous, verbose, sanctimonious sneering of 'experts' whenever anyone deviates from the established dendroboard dogma or tries to experiment with something new. I joined this board six years ago and lurked for years before that and I _completely_ understand why the the board is nowhere near as active as it used to be. 
Give it time and this board will just be the same handful of members sitting around sniffing each others farts and discussing how much better things were 'back in the day' before the 'McDonalds fast food drive thru lane' ruined everything. 
It wasn't always this way on here and the funniest thing is if you look at analogous forums for say, planted aquariums, the same thing doesn't happen. It's very unique to dendroboard.
If anyone replies to this I'd bet money it will be in a way that completely proves my point. 
Curious to see the results of your experiment OP.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Louis said:


> Yeah, that and the pompous, verbose, sanctimonious sneering of 'experts' whenever anyone deviates from the established dendroboard dogma or tries to experiment with something new. I joined this board six years ago and lurked for years before that and I _completely_ understand why the the board is nowhere near as active as it used to be.
> Give it time and this board will just be the same handful of members sitting around sniffing each others farts and discussing how much better things were 'back in the day' before the 'McDonalds fast food drive thru lane' ruined everything.
> It wasn't always this way on here and the funniest thing is if you look at analogous forums for say, planted aquariums, the same thing doesn't happen. It's very unique to dendroboard.
> If anyone replies to this I'd bet money it will be in a way that completely proves my point.
> Curious to see the results of your experiment OP.


I don't think there is anything wrong with people with experience with something giving advise about practices that have worked for them in the past or discussing potential safety concerns.

I like to think this discussion has been pretty civil until your post.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Louis said:


> pompous





Louis said:


> ] I joined this board six years ago and lurked for years before that and I _completely_ understand






Louis said:


> sneering





Louis said:


> sniffing each others farts


LOL. I've done this before myself, I'm sure, but I love when the pot calls the kettle black. Hahaha...

OP, I do hope you forgive us all for our bickering on your thread. Really, I do. It really is all part of the fun of being in a hobby that encourages and rewards passion.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

thedudeabides said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with people with experience with something giving advise about practices that have worked for them in the past or discussing potential safety concerns.


Cool. neither do I.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Louis said:


> Yeah, that and the pompous, verbose, sanctimonious sneering of 'experts' whenever anyone deviates from the established dendroboard dogma or tries to experiment with something new. I joined this board six years ago and lurked for years before that and I _completely_ understand why the the board is nowhere near as active as it used to be.
> Give it time and this board will just be the same handful of members sitting around sniffing each others farts and discussing how much better things were 'back in the day' before the 'McDonalds fast food drive thru lane' ruined everything.
> It wasn't always this way on here and the funniest thing is if you look at analogous forums for say, planted aquariums, the same thing doesn't happen. It's very unique to dendroboard.
> If anyone replies to this I'd bet money it will be in a way that completely proves my point.
> Curious to see the results of your experiment OP.


To the McDonalds drive thru for you and your '2 likes' - ye shytposter!

happy? It's what you want right?


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## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

I don't mind the bickering much. I appreciate the advice of those that are more experienced since I am new to the hobby. 
The advice that I got for ff cultures came from reading posts on this forum about temps for culturing ff, etc. I don't even have my frogs yet. I'll be picking them up in a little over a week. 

Right now I'm just trying to make sure I have a method for culturing ff That works so the frogs can be fed. I also have a culture of springtails going and just waiting for that to become productive. I did put a container for isopods in the cabinet. Ill be picking up another isopod starter culture to populate it when I get the frogs. Isopods are seeded in my viv and I should have really started an external culture then seeded the viv from that.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Philsuma said:


> To the McDonalds drive thru for you and your '2 likes' - ye shytposter!
> 
> happy? It's what you want right?


I don't know what this means but my comment isn't targeted at anyone specific or looking for any specific response. I'm not particularly interested whether anyone disagrees either, people will read it and either they've seen what I'm talking about or they haven't but I know for a fact that there's other people on here who see it too.
I genuinely don't see how anyone could read this forum regularly and not know what I'm talking about, and anyone who has been here long enough knows it wasn't always like this.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Louis said:


> I don't know what this means but my comment isn't targeted at anyone specific or looking for any specific response. I'm not particularly interested whether anyone disagrees either, people will read it and either they've seen what I'm talking about or they haven't but I know for a fact that there's other people on here who see it too.
> I genuinely don't see how anyone could read this forum regularly and not know what I'm talking about, and anyone who has been here long enough knows it wasn't always like this.


Well you quoted me...so, of course it's about me. I genuinely don't see how anyone could read this forum regularly and not know that you're not referencing me via the quotes.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

You're not wrong about the tone becoming less collegial over the last few years. However, it was never ok to come by and float some idea that is a potential danger to frogs or people and have it sail through without challenge (nor should it be). That doesn't represent a healthy forum to me, either. There has to be something in between; something where there is discussion about an idea without people getting their feelings hurt when their idea isn't immediately embraced and where people don't dog-pile on an idea just because it's new. Avoiding generalizing and not taking swipes at other folks would probably be a step in the right direction for all concerned.

Mark


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Encyclia said:


> You're not wrong about the tone becoming less collegial over the last few years.


No, I'm not. 



> Avoiding generalizing and not taking swipes at other folks would probably be a step in the right direction for all concerned.
> 
> Mark


Agreed. I'm not generalising though, it's always the same small handfull of individuals I see this sort of behaviour from, they know exactly who they are, and the only thing I'm taking a swipe at is how they relate to people with less knowledge and experience than them or who may want to try something new.
I've nothing further to say, it doesn't particularly effect me as I mostly come here to refer back to useful older threads and don't post much, if I'm looking for new information or fresh ideas I don't come to dendroboard.
I'm probably much more aware of it because I participate in various other forums and facebook groups that just don't have the same problem.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Facebook WON the interwebz battles largely due in part to the 'fast food drive thru' way of operating.

#1 - very few serious discussions, I mean, I'm on my cell. How much can I type anyway and have you seen all the auto corrects. Hil-air-ious, amiright.

#2 - nothing gets adequately cataloged or is searchable or able to be added to - at least not easily anyway.

#3 - and ya know what...FB LIKES it that way! Pages and pages of regurge - the same questions. No one can grip or kibitiz over the thread because in a matter of hours or days, it's buried. Gone for all intents and purposes. 

I could probably list a few more but why bother, right?


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## stevenacres (Jan 20, 2020)

It's great to follow the FB for fun pics of setups, cute frogs, etc. It's not a good place for discussion, as per the reasons noted above. In fact, it's downright frustrating for that.

And little ol me, I pop down to the local reptile store and buy a hydei culture from them for ~$8 every month. I only have 1 tank to feed, though, so I don't mind paying for it and supporting a local shop. I already have too many other things on my weekly to do list to add building cultures to it.


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## doug6952 (Feb 19, 2020)

I took the FF cultures out of the cabinet. Cultures were maturing a bit too fast. Now I just have an isopod culture and bean beetle culture in the cabinet.

If I start running low on FF I can always stick a culture in there to speed it up a bit.


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