# Fruit Flies All Dying and now Mites!



## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm starting to freak out! I've been having fruit fly problems for a while now.

I thought I had the issue solved but now something new...

For the first time I've found mites in my cultures. Most of my cultures are dead... Both recently made cultures & older cultures. I went from having too many flies a week ago to having to buy crappy Petco cultures.

Also, I was feeding from my hydei culture yesterday and once I transferred the flies they all died within a few minutes.

This happened twice. I didn’t believe it the first time so I got more flies and the same thing happened... I've never experienced anything like this before.

I have an order from NEHERP for cultures and mite control products but it will be a week out.

What is the proper protocol? Should I throw out all of my cultures? I'm seriously considering getting out of this hobby if I can't even manage to keep my frogs fed...


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

All the cultures i've gotten from Petco (the flymeat ones) have had mites. When I make a new culture I powder them with calcium this appears to dislodge the mites, and then i lay the container on it's side and I let the flies crawl up the side and into the new cultures. A little slower, but it seems to work. I found that idea of powdering the flies here on the forum, but I forgot the thread. 

I also keep the cultures apart from one another (separate rooms). I don't have all of them sitting side by side, this way in case the mites move from one to the other. I don't know for sure if they do or not, but I also read that here on the forum. So I just avoid it. When the new ones come in you might want to keep the separate from your existing cultures, just in case.

I don't think you necessarily need to throw out your cultures. When they start to get bad like that for me, I just pop off the lid and put the whole thing in tank. Or if they are still producing a lot, you can just cut a whole in the lid and they will trickle out.

Don't give up yet. We've all had fly problems.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

you have a similar thread with several unanswered questions from someone trying to help. Probably the best single resource here, Ed (linked below). Why the new thread? Can you respond in your other thread so that people can help you

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/249634-these-mites.html#post2447194


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

This is a very easy solution. Wait for you new flies and mite paper. Meanwhile, move your current, infested cultures to another room, preferably. Clean the area your new culture will go with a warm soapy rag that is kept wet, rinsed, and soapy. When your new cultures arrive, first put down the mite paper. then wash your hands thoroughly. Put your new cultures on top of the mite paper and get back on a regular feeding schedule. Feed from whatever old cultures you need to until you get a couple weeks of new cultures going. NEVER handle your new cultures after your old cultures. Toss old cultures when your new colony gets going sufficiently to feed your animals.

PLEASE NOTE: You will still have Mites. Everyone does to varying degrees. We aim to control them but know they come with the territory. Throw out cultures that are 28 days old. Don't make new cultures with any culture older than 27 days. refresh your mite paper when you see an accumulation of mites. Trust me, you will see this someday. Follow these simple rules and you will have cultures that prosper. 

Now, go back to Ed's question in your last thread so we can help with your isopods. Link below.

Edit: you had mites long before your flies started dying. see above.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/250298-fruit-flies-all-dying-now-mites.html



port_plz said:


> I'm starting to freak out! I've been having fruit fly problems for a while now.
> 
> I thought I had the issue solved but now something new...
> 
> ...


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Looks like the other thread is concerning mites in an isopod culture, but guessing you could take similar precautions for both. I believe Ed might be an honest to goodness genius so I'd just do whatever he says.


I've been lucky not to have any problems so far. I can tell you the procedure I use personally, which I just cobbled together from several threads on here. I make 1 fruit fly culture a week, and I throw them away after a month, so at any time I have 4 going. If you've kept some cultures older than 4-5 weeks around, that was likely the initial source of the mites. I read somewhere on here the mites have a lifecycle around that long, so throwing away cultures older than that is one way to keep their population in check. When I start a new culture, I usually use a mix of the 3rd and 4th week's cultures, with the majority being from the 3rd culture.

I bought some mite spray but wasn't super confident how well it would work. I ended up just getting some diatomaceous earth and I store all my cultures sitting in plastic bins with 1-2 in. of the diatomaceous earth at the bottom.

Also when I'm making the new cultures I try to wash my hands in between touching the new and the old ones, and don't let them come in contact with each other (other than the flies I'm dumping in).

My isopod culture is way down in the basement away from my fruit fly cultures, and I wash my hands before and after doing anything in there.


Sorry that wasn't very well-written. I hope that gives you some ideas though. I believe all cultures have some mites in them, you just have to do your best not to encourage their growth. I don't know what to tell you about fixing your current situation other than trying to prevent contamination in the future. If you're looking for a source other than Petco, you may have to try looking online or see if there's a local exotic pet store or other hobbyists near you. 

Sorry this has discouraged you but hope you can find the information you need on the board here.

Good luck,
Thane


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thats what I meant when I said he had 2 similar threads. Both about mites
Both of these problems are the same problem. They are not independent of each other. Separate the isopods from all the flies, keep the mites in the flies under control, problem ceases to be a problem and becomes what we all call maintenance. I can't say it enough. The ONLY difference between people who have seen their mites and people who claim 100% no mites is the later have yet to find their mites.

Edit: How many dozen mites do you think you eat with your morning, cold cereal? Even a freshly opened box. I promise you this, the number isn't zero!
You know the tingling sensation you sometimes get around your lips when feeding out your flies? That's because you touched your face for some reason and the mites are now on you.



thane said:


> Looks like the other thread is concerning mites in an isopod culture, but guessing you could take similar precautions for both. I believe Ed might be an honest to goodness genius so I'd just do whatever he says.
> 
> 
> 
> Thane


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Well that's a pleasant thought to keep me up at night! 

Question for my own education - The one difference I see between the two, at least in my own culturing methods - I throw the old FF cultures away before they're spent, after 4 weeks, mostly just to avoid a mite problem. But my isopod culture I just keep going - it's in a big box and I just add food and mist about once a week. I wash my hands before and after going in there, and keep it far away from my FF cultures. But because the isopod culture is being kept for several months, does that make it more prone to a mite problem? I would hope (as aquarimax mentioned in the other thread) that the isopods would help keep the mites under control better than FFs, through their foraging, but I don't know.

I hope that's not a dumb question. I just thought it might add to the discussion, and I'm always looking to learn more about preventative maintenance. So far I've been lucky the only pests I've found are a few fungus gnats, and I was able to get them under control using some tips I found on here.

Thanks,
Thane


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

What your doing is why you don't have a problem with your isopods or your fruit flies. And, that is not a dumb question IMO. 

Edit: A good shower before bed with proper soapage should help you sleep better. They don't have grasping parts like ticks so the action of the surfactant (soap) bubbles them up and off your skin. Don't forget behind your ears. (OMG shut up MOM lol). The bed is what destroys it again. Dust mites just love our dried, shed squamous cells! Kinda like scabs to a vampire. They're potato chips!




thane said:


> Well that's a pleasant thought to keep me up at night!
> 
> Question for my own education - The one difference I see between the two, at least in my own culturing methods - I throw the old FF cultures away before they're spent, after 4 weeks, mostly just to avoid a mite problem. But my isopod culture I just keep going - it's in a big box and I just add food and mist about once a week. I wash my hands before and after going in there, and keep it far away from my FF cultures. But because the isopod culture is being kept for several months, does that make it more prone to a mite problem? I would hope (as aquarimax mentioned in the other thread) that the isopods would help keep the mites under control better than FFs, through their foraging, but I don't know.
> 
> ...


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Some friends above gave you helpful advices. I can tell you that you don't have to leave the hobby, because we all have problems with fruit flies.
Flies are unpredictable... To me they all died because of the heat, because they do not reproduce with high temps. I brought new cultures in the basement, but it is cold there, so only these days they have developed - after more than a month. And yes, there are some mites in them. Mites usually are in ffs cultures.
If you say that the flies are dead within few minutes - if I understand correctly - the cause, for me, can not be mites... But where are they dead? In cultures? If it is so, I think CO2, rather.
A couple of months ago to me fruit flies are dead the next day because of the excelsior - which was probably treated with chemicals.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

aspidites73 said:


> you have a similar thread with several unanswered questions from someone trying to help. Probably the best single resource here, Ed (linked below). Why the new thread? Can you respond in your other thread so that people can help you
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/249634-these-mites.html#post2447194


Sorry for the late reply. I believe this is unrelated. The isopod culture has never even been in the same room as my fruit fly cultures. After seeing mites in my FFs I'm convinced that whatever is growing in the iso culture is way too big to be mites.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

rigel10 said:


> Some friends above gave you helpful advices. I can tell you that you don't have to leave the hobby, because we all have problems with fruit flies.
> Flies are unpredictable... To me they all died because of the heat, because they do not reproduce with high temps. I brought new cultures in the basement, but it is cold there, so only these days they have developed - after more than a month. And yes, there are some mites in them. Mites usually are in ffs cultures.
> If you say that the flies are dead within few minutes - if I understand correctly - the cause, for me, can not be mites... But where are they dead? In cultures? If it is so, I think CO2, rather.
> A couple of months ago to me fruit flies are dead the next day because of the excelsior - which was probably treated with chemicals.


I promise you they where alive! This is why I tried twice to confirm because I thought the same thing. I dumped live flies into the cup, dusted and before I could feed them to my frogs 99% of them where dead.

I'll try to get video.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

port_plz said:


> I promise you they where alive! This is why I tried twice to confirm because I thought the same thing. I dumped live flies into the cup, dusted and before I could feed them to my frogs 99% of them where dead.
> 
> I'll try to get video.


So, your flies are dying when feeding out, not when in the culture? It would seem to me that your feeding technique is encountering a toxic residue of sorts. At least, it's toxic to the flies. Try using a fresh culture cup and make sure your technique doesn't include touching something ( like the bottoms of cups after they are on mite paper or something similar). What are you supplementing with? Where are you storing the supplements? You may have a contamination issue. Try putting them in a feeding cup, not dusting, and checking on the periodically. Do they still die?


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

You might just be dumping too much powder on them too. The first couple times I dusted them I put way too much powder on and also kind of shook the cup around too hard, and that tended to stun them. I use a little lighter touch now and haven't had the same issue.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

This happened to me when I left flies too long (half an hour or more) in heavy dusted cup. In my case they are always stunded fruitflies.

@ Thane: I have not read your answer because I was writing. I agree with you.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

I thought this might be the case as well. The second attempt I tapped the flies in one corner sprinkled the powder on the other side. I also used less than I normally do.

I use Repashy and keep them in the refrigerator. I'll try your suggestion later today.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Just an update...

I have quarantined or disposed of most of my old cultures. I started a few new ones from the NEHERP cultures. I have just enough flies to get by - but feel really bad because I feel like I'm under feeding. I'm supplementing with spring tails. I'll probably pick up some more petco FF cultures tomorrow.

I started a new hydei culture about 2 weeks ago. It definitely has black mold... Even the maggots have black in their guts. I've decided the hydei seem to be where the problem originated - so I'm not going to produce any more.

Lesson learned - don’t try new things... Not that I want to discourage anyone but everything was perfect until I started experimenting with different flies and media.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Why are you so certain a black substance is black mold? Are you preparing your own fly media? Is it possible one of your ingredients is turning black as a response to something other than mold?

I'm not certain that you should take from this that you 'shouldn't try new things'. See my Ralph Waldo Emerson quote in my signature below! I think the greatest message to be reminded is: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If we never tried new things we would never progress.

Science= Doubt and Question everything until you find the simplest answer to the most phenomena!




port_plz said:


> Just an update...
> 
> I have quarantined or disposed of most of my old cultures. I started a few new ones from the NEHERP cultures. I have just enough flies to get by - but feel really bad because I feel like I'm under feeding. I'm supplementing with spring tails. I'll probably pick up some more petco FF cultures tomorrow.
> 
> ...


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

It started as pillow like fluffy black stuff that kept growing. The media is premade stuff and has never had mold problems. It has mold inhibitor and I use boiling water.


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## SwampMan (Jun 26, 2015)

I had black mold like that. So I pulled up on the excelsior to let air circulate better and the mold disappeared.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Has never had mold problems, until now. Boiling water will not bring the media up to that temperature. Quite conversely, the media will bring the temp of the water down to it, as heat always moves from hot to cold. My best guess would be your too dry for the mold inhibitor to work. Have you experimented with adding some water when the mold first appears? are your larva pupating in the lower half of the cup? That can indicate humidity/moisture is too low.

EDIT: Are those predatory mites attacking the encased larva (pupa), in your 2nd photo?



port_plz said:


> It started as pillow like fluffy black stuff that kept growing. The media is premade stuff and has never had mold problems. It has mold inhibitor and I use boiling water.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

I just follow the directions. No, I've never added any water later. This is the first time I've had mold this bad and for the most part if I do get mold it is near the end of the life of the culture and never significant.

I noticed that in the photo too. This culture is dated 8-25 and already covered in mites. I thought it took 30 days for mites to develop.

This culture is going in the freezer today! Unless there is any reason to keep it around?


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

I have had cultures swarming in mites in 2 weeks time, so i dont think the 30 day cycle is true.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

bsr8129 said:


> I have had cultures swarming in mites in 2 weeks time, so i dont think the 30 day cycle is true.


Correct. Instead what is probably happening is that conditions in the cultures are shifting to those that favor the mites over the flies. Some of the grain mites at 25 C have a population doubling time of 2.8 days. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

port_plz said:


> It started as pillow like fluffy black stuff that kept growing. The media is premade stuff and has never had mold problems. It has mold inhibitor and I use boiling water.


Black and fluffy is probably an Aspergillous (like A. niger). It can be highly invasive in cultures and can cause problems with the cultures. Many people add vinegar as a mold preventative but A. niger (as an example) can actually drop the pH of the culture down to around 2. Cinnamon will inhibit the growth of Aspergillous but not kill it so depending on the mold inhibitor in your media, it may have a reduced or non-existent affect on the molds. 

I also have to note that mold inhibitors reduce the growth of the molds. They are not true fungicides as they aren't intended to kill the molds. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks Ed. Is this mold dangerous?

So far it is only this one culture but I don’t plan on opening it... It is also being kept in a closet in a different room.

Should I trash it?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Its not really dangerous. You've probably seen it a lot without realizing it. As an example the little black specks on onions are often this mold. Here's an example from my kitchen. 

While I haven't had it show up here in a long time, I would normally discard the culture without opening it unless I was desperate for flies. The reason is that you would have to disinfect the tools you used to collect (like funnels and cups) the flies for dusting and feeding out. Once you open it, your going to really increase the number of spores in the area that can contaminate the cultures. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Just an update...

The black mold/mite culture was disposed of. I did manage to start a new hydei culture using the dusting method and letting the flies crawl up the side of the cup into the new culture. No mold or mites so far it was made on 8-15. All looks good - there are lots of maggots, no mites, no mold BUT all but maybe 6 of the starter flies have died.  

I have started keeping my cultures in a different room and on mite paper. I ordered all new culturing supplies from NEHERP and now that I'm back on their media my melo cultures are exploding.

Big thanks to Mark (Encyclia) I now have Turkish Gliders and they are booming. 

All is looking good again. I have more flies than I know what to do with! Hopefully I can keep this going. Thanks all for your help and support.


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## Cappy72 (Nov 5, 2015)

Once I see the larvae, the hydei tend to die shortly thereafter. I've done some more research on it and it seems that I should have transferred them prior to the larvae being visible. It's weird because they were active and just fine yesterday and today dead and gone but plenty of larvae in the media and above.


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

I have had to use Tedion solution and methyl paraben to control mites and mold. It has been working ok. Even using Repashy superfly and keeping everything in the freezer and on diatomaceous earth I have mite troubles If I let my guard down.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

Cappy72 said:


> Once I see the larvae, the hydei tend to die shortly thereafter. I've done some more research on it and it seems that I should have transferred them prior to the larvae being visible. It's weird because they were active and just fine yesterday and today dead and gone but plenty of larvae in the media and above.


My last Hydei culture was kind of weird too... The original flies all died quickly but there was a ton of larvae After over a month and a half none of them hatched. I threw it away and decided to give up on Hydei for the time being.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

First let me say I haven't' actually looked up info to see if there was a problem, but I've been putting my cultures once the flies have stopped producing in the tanks for the frogs to eat the mites. There could be lots of reasons not to do that, so take that with a grain of salt, but I haven't seen any evident problems with doing it. I don't skip feedings, it just seems to supplement a little.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

They can actually catch the mites? How? They’re so tiny!


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

I guess they aren't too small for the frogs. I'll often see 3-4 froglets sitting inside the ff up eating.


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