# Lost all of my frogs!!! HELP!



## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I'm new to dart frogs, and just got my first three this summer. I got three very small dendrobates auratus. I set them up in a small tank (5 gal.), until they got a bit bigger and after about a month i had them in a ten gallon. I fed them every other day with drosophila melanogaster, dusted with reptivite (the only supplement sold at my local pet store). They had a reptiglo 5.0 uvb light on them. The tank was kept at room temp, and constantly humid. I can post pics later if needed. They had 2 pothos plants, a coconut hut, and sphagnum moss. on a substrate of eco-earth. They all died within a week and a half of eachother. Any idea what happened? I researched a ton before i got them, and i can't think of what killed them. I don't want to replace them until i have the problem fixed. thanks


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh no! How awful 

Can you post pics of their tank? My first thoughts are temps and humidity. Did they have a glass lid? How warm was it inside the tank? How much heat did the UVB put out?


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

Yep, I'll go take a few pics now. The temp was around 72 degrees. I didn't have a humidity gauge, but I had a screen lid covered completely with packing tape so it stayed pretty humid.


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## mrzoggs (May 27, 2012)

did they show any signs of illness before they died? Losing weight? Not as active? Sores?


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/schaefermsean/media/picture063_zps3f869fd8.jpg.html?filters[user]=137972400&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=3

here's a link to some pics. sorry about quality.. crappy laptop camera and the room is dark. thanks for helping


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

The tank is a little barren for darts but I don't see anything in there that looks like it would have caused their deaths. Was there a light over the packing tape? If so, I wonder if heating the packing tape caused some sort of fumes in the tank?


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## tarbo96 (Jan 12, 2006)

It will be impossible to tell without a necropsy. What was on top of the substrate? Both eco earth and spagnum can accidentally get ingested and cause impaction. If pants weren't processed properly chemical residue could have caused health issues. 10g for three auratus is possible but on the small side.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I didn't see anything abnormal. All were active and eating well. They were out a lot and I could see under the leaves where they'd hide, so I would've noticed something abnormal. I came in one day and the blue one was dead, then the next day the green and black, then 5 days later the green and bronze..


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## mrzoggs (May 27, 2012)

doesn't look too humid to me. Could've used some leaf litter. It would've gave them some hiding spots and stopped them from eating any of the dirt/moss when eating flies. Accidently eating moss and/or dirt can cause impaction in frogs. I doubt they all 3 got impacted at the same time but at least its a tip for next time. I am sorry about your loss. A good way to judge if you have proper humidity is by condensation on the glass.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think you need to update your supplements if you get more frogs. They need calcium with D3 and vitamins. But, I don't know if that would have caused their deaths so soon.


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## tarbo96 (Jan 12, 2006)

While all three getting impacted would be unusual it is very possible in a tank with that much spagnum and substrate exposed.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

First thing that comes to mind is there is no leaf litter at all.There is no need for the moss.I would have a small,shallow water bowl for them to soak in.You should also have more plant material growing in there.plants help keep humidity in and help make them feel comfortable.Also if you have that light on them it has to be warmer inside the tank than that unless your house is really cold.And lastly I would get better vitamins.You can get some repashy online(no need to go to a local petstore for them. and in my opinion is the best out there for our hobby.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

Yes, the light was on top of the packing tape. That makes sense that it might've caused some kind of fumes... the plants came from the guy who bred the frogs, and were supposed to be chemical free. These pics were taken just now, I haven't sprayed the tank down in almost a week because there's nothing in there. I will add a lot of leaf litter before I get any more frogs. Thanks guys! What supplements do you guys use?


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I did have a small rock water bowl in there that I took out to clean before I put anything else in there. It was only about .5 inches deep since they were small and I didn't want them to drown. What other plants do you guys recommend? and what about live moss? I like the look of that, if it's possible with them.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Repashy calcium plus


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Reptileguy101 said:


> I did have a small rock water bowl in there that I took out to clean before I put anything else in there. It was only about .5 inches deep since they were small and I didn't want them to drown. What other plants do you guys recommend? and what about live moss? I like the look of that, if it's possible with them.


Live moss is more for us then the frogs.They don't need it.Did you notice the frogs soaking a lot?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I like Rephashy Calcium Plus. It's an all-in-one supplement with Calcium and Vitamins. Do away with the UVB light and get a compact fluorescent light, one of those curly ones in a clamp lamp is all I use. The light is for the plants, not the frogs. Leaf litter, definitely. This is the right time of year for collecting it. Maybe go down to your local hardware store and see about getting some glass cut for the top. I use 2 pieces of glass that fit inside the rim, with an inch or so gap across the back. Then I tape down the section closer to the back and another piece of tape to make a hinge with the piece toward the front. In the gap, I tape down some screen. It's cheap and easy and they have humidity and a little ventilation too.

You'll want to clean out that tank and sanitize it with bleach before adding new stuff to it. While I think your frogs probably died due to something environmental, we can't rule out disease. Your new frogs will need a sanitized tank. 

Would you post pics of your tank redone for us before you get more frogs?


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## tarbo96 (Jan 12, 2006)

I would suggest starting over, just in case there was contamination. Create a false bottom, less substrate, lots of leaf litter, plants can be pothos, broms, begonias, etc. Lots of people on here sell cheap plant packages.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

IMO, plants are not as important as leaf litter. As long as there is a nice thick layer of leaves, they should be happy. Then you could add a simple plant, like philodendron, to spruce it up a bit.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I'll go and find some nice leaves tomorrow. How do I sanitize them? What is the water to bleach ratio for sanitizing the tank? I don't need the UVB light at all then? I never noticed the frogs in the water bowl. They tended to stay on the opposite side of the cage. Yeah I'll go ahead and post some pics when it's done. How do I go about cleaning plants in case there was something on these ones? I'll grab a few nice bromeliads, some nice leaves, a new light fixture, a new top, and a new supplement. I have a few weeks to get it right before the next reptile show, so I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks a ton!


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

Do the begonias that people use in their gardens work as well? That might look cool...


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

For leaves, I boil them for a few minutes. Make sure they are from an area where pesticides and herbicides are not used. For the tank, how I would do it is toss everything that's in the tank, rinse it out and wipe it down to get rid of any pieces (I do it in the tub, and rinse the water down the drain with bleach). Then put some water in the tank and add about 10% or so of bleach and wash it out really well. Let it dry out. 

You don't want to dump anything outside. The insides of the tank should be double bagged and then put in the trash. 

For new plants, I rinse all dirt from the roots and then soak the plant for 10 min or so in water with 5-10% bleach. Rinse really well. I then soak it again in water with dechlorinator added. I like Prime. You can get it at most pet stores.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

They don't need UVB and the glass will block it anyway. They get what they need from the supplements. That's why it's so important to fully supplement them.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

Ok, so if I go to Home Depot to get the fixture and the glass, it would be safe to grab a couple plants from there too as long as I rinse them well?


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

frogface said:


> The tank is a little barren for darts but I don't see anything in there that looks like it would have caused their deaths. Was there a light over the packing tape? If so, I wonder if heating the packing tape caused some sort of fumes in the tank?


UVB night be a concern, as well, lacking any ground cover, like that


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Reptileguy101 said:


> Ok, so if I go to Home Depot to get the fixture and the glass, it would be safe to grab a couple plants from there too as long as I rinse them well?


Yes, look at their exotic angel line of plants (is that the right name?). They tend to be fairly well suited for vivs. They have begonias too


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Splash&Dash said:


> UVB night be a concern, as well, lacking any ground cover, like that


Try to keep up


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

Hmmm... I've never heard of exotic angels, but I know the one by me has lots of bromeliads and pothos that they keep on a shelf by the registers  Thanks! I'll try and get some pics up soon of the tank re-done.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Reptileguy101 said:


> Yes, the light was on top of the packing tape. That makes sense that it might've caused some kind of fumes... the plants came from the guy who bred the frogs, and were supposed to be chemical free. These pics were taken just now, I haven't sprayed the tank down in almost a week because there's nothing in there. I will add a lot of leaf litter before I get any more frogs. Thanks guys! What supplements do you guys use?


you should start over from scratch with questionable deaths like that. Also, when you hopefully do rebuild the tank, please research some of the build threads on here. That tank could have used many improvements


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

You may also want to seed the tank with springtails and isopods.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I checked out a couple of those after i had already set the tank up, and got jealous. I will definitely make it less barren. I didn't like how the tank looked originally, and was going to add a bunch more plants, but just didn't get around to it. Now I have motivation!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Reptileguy101 said:


> Hmmm... I've never heard of exotic angels, but I know the one by me has lots of bromeliads and pothos that they keep on a shelf by the registers  Thanks! I'll try and get some pics up soon of the tank re-done.


Look in the plant section. You'll see the ones I mean. The broms they sell tend to get big; too big for our tanks. The pothos are fine but they can grow like crazy and take over a tank. I prefer philodendron. It's not quite as aggressive as pothos. There will also be other interesting plants.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

It was seeded with springtails, but i will be dumping everything out, so I will have to add some more. Do most people on here who sell the isopods overnight ship or is it standard shipping? What kind would you recommend for the auratus?


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I'll take a look.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

One of the members on here, the owner of Glass Box Tropicals, is sometimes at my local reptile show. Hopefully he'll be there this time so I can get some plants from him. He had a good selection last time


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

OK,it appears to me they were kept too dry, which also kill your plants. I would guess they spent time with substrate stuck to their skin.Your auratus are shy anyway and then being kept too dry will leave them hiding all the time.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

The tank was sprayed multiple times a day, I don't think they dried out. It just looks dry right now because i haven't misted in over a week since they died. They were out quite a lot more than I thought they'd be, but as soon as I walked up to the tank they'd bolt


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

My recommendations for a simple tank:

About a 1 inch layer of sphagnum moss. This is to retain humidity.

On top of the sphag layer, a 1-3 inch layer of leaf litter. Leaf litter makes darts happy in general. It gives them a place to hunt and hide.

Furniture. Coco huts, plants, etc. This is for added security by having more places to hide. Not _extremely_ necessary, but your frogs will hide less often with the more furniture there is.

That's it. Pretty simple 

The most important things however, are to monitor the temperature and humidity. I think most dart frogs can handle 50F-90F for short periods, but you really want to aim for 60F-80F. Outside this range is dangerous. TO monitor this, you need a good thermometer that is inside the frog tank. Otherwise you have no idea really what the temp is inside there.

The humidity can be a bit tricky. Really anything above 50% is tolerable. I think above 60% is ideal. Some people like humidity gauges so they have a good idea of what the humidity is (although I've found them to break quite easily...). Personally I just stick my hand in the viv and if it feels humid it's good.

Those are the most important and basic points. Hope it helps!


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

You say you researched a ton before getting your frogs, but you 1- used a uvb bulb, which is posted as not necessary in many threads, 2- you added no leaf litter, which is pretty necessary (or at least as accepted by most), 3- you added no microfauna, which is pretty standard, 4- you combined 3 different auratus morphs in a 10 gallon sparse tank.  I'm sorry to harsh you, but it doesn't seem like you really did any research at all. Didn't the breeder tell you not to mix the 3 morphs? Do you mind telling us whom you got them from? Please do not buy more frogs in a few weeks. Research a ton, for real this time. Build a more suitable tank for whatever single species/morph you choose and let it establish for a while before getting more frogs. Then, when you do buy more, quarantine them for a minimum of 30 days, run fecals, and if possible test for chytrid and ranavirus before adding them to the new viv. I know it sounds like a lot, but it's better for you and the frogs in the long run.

Like I said, I don't mean to sound harsh, just think of it as tough love.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

hypostatic said:


> My recommendations for a simple tank:
> 
> About a 1 inch layer of sphagnum moss. This is to retain humidity.
> 
> On top of the sphag layer, a 1-3 inch layer of leaf litter. Leaf litter makes darts happy in general. It gives them a place to hunt and hide.


I always found a drainage layer essential, even with Spag. The stuff just stays too soppy for my tastes without one, and doesn't require any real effort to install. I think any plants would do better long term, as well


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Do you mean like a LECA layer or false bottom? Or do you mean like a drainage hole?


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

In the tank I had them in before I had leaf litter, just didn't have any more for this tank. Planned on adding some. Just didn't get around to it, and now I realize that it was wrong. I was only using the bulb for the plants, because I like the look of lots of healthy plants. The tank was seeded with springtails. they are all the same species, I didn't know that you couldn't mix different morphs of the same species. I was intending to breed them either so I didn't see it being a problem.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Reptileguy101 said:


> In the tank I had them in before I had leaf litter, just didn't have any more for this tank. Planned on adding some. Just didn't get around to it, and now I realize that it was wrong. I was only using the bulb for the plants, because I like the look of lots of healthy plants. The tank was seeded with springtails. they are all the same species, I didn't know that you couldn't mix different morphs of the same species. I was intending to breed them either so I didn't see it being a problem.


I think you needed to do way more research. You should have at least known mixing morphs was frowned upon if you had done any research. 

You're problem was probably a combination of factors...
1. To many frogs in a small space

2. Stress from being acquired then changing homes twice in a short time (some of that can't be avoided though)

3. Extremely sparse habitat that gave them very little cover and subjected them to high stress (This probably made #2 more of a factor)

4. Looks pretty dry, but you said you haven't misted in a week so I'll give some benefit of the doubt. You should have at least some water in the false bottom or drainage layer so it can wick/evaporate up into the soil and keep it moist, then the frogs can sequester moisture from the substrate and stay hydrated. You did have a false bottom or drainage layer right?

5. Chances are at least one frog might have been sick and spread it to the other frogs. Whatever they had might not have killed them under better conditions but with all the stress these frogs were under from poor habitat and husbandry they likely just couldn't take it. 

6. Did you let the tank cycle for a few weeks before adding frogs? This gives the environment a chance to reach a biological equilibrium and be better suited to handling frog wastes and less prone to bacterial blooms or other nasty stuff happening. 

Over all it looks like you did the bare minimum to maybe keep a couple darts alive, but it wasn't enough in this case.

More research, maybe find someone local with experience to mentor you/help you construct a new vivarium etc... You don't sound like a bad guy so I hope you learn from this and take a another stab at it, but try to do more then the bare minimum next time.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

hypostatic said:


> Do you mean like a LECA layer or false bottom? Or do you mean like a drainage hole?


something like leca. even with a drain, I always found a drainage layer just to be good practice


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I agree,just a layer of moss covered by a layer of leaves just won't cut it.It would get way too soggy pretty quickly.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Reptileguy101 said:


> One of the members on here, the owner of Glass Box Tropicals, is sometimes at my local reptile show. Hopefully he'll be there this time so I can get some plants from him. He had a good selection last time



Spend as much time as you can talking with Glass Box Tropicals and soak up info from them. Get some plants and supplies for your newly totally clean tank. See if you can find another PDF keeper in your area and ask to see their tanks and/or post you location (they may offer to assist you). It really helps just to look at successful vivariums in real life vs photos. Try and wait a few months to add frogs, this will give you lots of time to get it just right. 

One last thing just in case. .be sure not to have your tank where direct sunlight hits it from a window or door.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

To me the very quick death in a short time has to be an environmental issue. I would look very heavily at heat, do you have a temp sensor that you know is working well in the tank? Can it record temps? 

Maybe fumes from the tape. Does anyone know if heavy UV could kill frogs, sun tanned to death?


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Pubfiction said:


> Does anyone know if heavy UV could kill frogs, sun tanned to death?


that was my first thought. because we are talking about animals that live under a canopy. here they were exposed directly to the type of UVB used for animals that actively bask in heavy sunlight. 

Packing tape also has a heavy smell to it, and can't help to think the high levels of heat humidity and UV would help break it down rather quickly


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

I doubt that it was UV that killed the frogs, although prolonged exposure could theoretically cause them a lot of stress resulting in a lowered immune system. It was likely a variety of stressors that caused their immune system to be compromised. Those stressors could include anything from the mixing of the locales, a lower humidity, the lack of hiding places, transferring tanks, and even activity and sound outside the tank could affect them. 

Another possibility is a contaminated water source. Did you use tap? if so, did you check for chlorine and let it sit a minimum of 24 hours?

Good luck and research is the most important step of this hobby. The next most important is to let your tank stabilize before adding frogs, this way you can see and unforeseen errors in the construction.

Again good luck and I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

Thanks guys. I looked at all this and you're right there was a lot wrong with the tank. Will definitely re-do it and post pics so you guys can tell me if it looks better this time. I had no idea about the mixing of locales. What are your favorite auratus locales? (I'll go with just one this time)


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I still have yet to add plants, isopods, and get a new top, but here the tank is sanitized, with tons of leaf litter, and a new light... I kept with the same layout, and left the same amount of substrate in there with the bigger hill on the right side to allow the plants to spread down hill. let me know what you think so far
picture067_zps1f722aa1.jpg Photo by schaefermsean | Photobucket


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

The light looks red. Do you have some sort of basking bulb on there? Also, when you say it's sanitized, did you remove and double bag all the drainage layer and substrate, bleach the tank, rinse well and start with all new supplies?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

It looks really complicated whatever you have wrapped the top in to increase humidity...all you really need is a piece of saranwrap or something just laid across the top..looks like overkill...


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

epiphytes etc. said:


> The light looks red. Do you have some sort of basking bulb on there? Also, when you say it's sanitized, did you remove and double bag all the drainage layer and substrate, bleach the tank, rinse well and start with all new supplies?


I have some red cling wrap on the top of the cage until I can get a glass top, and theres a red light on my tokay gecko's tank right above it, which may be making it look red. I dumped and double bagged everything, bleached the tank with hot water and 10 percent bleach, rinsed again with hot water, took coco hut and submerged it in a 5 gal. bucket with a 5 percent bleach solution, as well as the two pothos plants. I went outside and collected a bunch of leaves, boiled them for 5 mins. put the tank back together after making sure everything was rinsed well, seeded with springtails, and plugged the lights in.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

Judy S said:


> It looks really complicated whatever you have wrapped the top in to increase humidity...all you really need is a piece of saranwrap or something just laid across the top..looks like overkill...


Didn't see this until after I had already replied. That's what I'm using right now, it's just the holiday version that they have out right now, which is what i had at home. (it just looks sloppy) lol


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Out of all the auratus I've worked with,Mebalo are my favorite.They are a little shy when they are froglets,but get a lot bolder as they get older.What's important though is which is your favorite because you are the one who will be enjoying them everyday.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think your new frogs will like that tank. I'm concerned about the plastic wrap on top, though. It's a bit of a fire hazard if you have a light directly on it. So, to ease my mind, tell me you don't have a light over the plastic 

Let it sit for a while before you get new frogs. Make sure you have consistent appropriate temps. Get that glass lid. Oh, and get some sandpaper to sand down the sharp edges or I'll be worried that you're going to cut your fingers to pieces 

Consider additional plants, as you have time and funds.

Fresh supplements, right? Replace after they have been open 6 months.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

New tank with some more plants should be fine for a couple frogs, and I wanna commend reptile guy for not freaking out like some people do when we offer some criticism. So good on him


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

frogface said:


> Oh, and get some sandpaper to sand down the sharp edges or I'll be worried that you're going to cut your fingers to pieces
> 
> 
> Haha,You are such the mother hen Kris,That's why we love you


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2013)

I have raised Auratus for 4 years without any mortality. I would strongly consider a complete redesign of your enclosure, starting with the packing tape lid. Seems highly suspicious and easily could react to heat from the light. The tape also has adhesive which I am sure is not good for them and plasticizers to keep it supple which migrate. Strongly advise a cut and sanded glass lid. Then your humidity will go up alot and any heat from the light can arrive on the floor of the enclosure safely. 

The other issue might be feed. IF they are really small and your flies are big, they may not have been eating, although that is less likely the cause I believe.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

I do like the Mebalo a lot. I really like the green and bronze also. No the light is clamped on the shelf and going in the side of the tank  I will definitely be replacing the top, though. I'll probably go try this weekend. I'll be careful about the edges lol Definitely more plants. I want it to look as natural as possible. I'm going to get a new thermometer/hygrometer set also. Any recommendations? I will order some Repashy Calcium Plus online before I get new frogs. Thanks, I posted this looking for criticism, and have no problem with it, because I know there's something I did wrong. They were Drosophila melanogaster that I was feeding, so I think it was fine. I saw them eat every time I fed. Thanks a ton for the helps guys! Updates to come!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Reptileguy101 said:


> I'll be careful about the edges lol


Thank you! 

Look for a digital thermometer/hydrometer. I think I got a zoomed one for about 20 bucks. There may be more options now.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

One other thing to think about ,is when you collect leaves,you want to make sure they are dry leaves or they will probably mold quicker than your springs and isos can keep up with........It's getting better.Keep us updated.


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## Reptileguy101 (Sep 1, 2012)

i definitely will keep you updated.. im glad i could figure it out. i wasn't really satisfied with how the tank looked in the first place, it's starting to look better to me.. definitely not done yet though. I like them to look really natural


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Can't read the entire thread, so sorry for any repeats:

1) Lose the tape. I use saran wrap, and only wrap half the screen;
2) Get a humidity gauge;
3) use a daylight fl tube or cfl bulb--not incandescent--color temp of 5000 to 6700 k. This is not a measure of intensity (wattage)! No need for a uvb bulb;
4) Lose the moss. I use and recommend leaf litter, small magnolia or live oak from a reputable source;
5) A couple of small to medium plants--how about:

Fittonia minima
Philodendron 'Wend imbe'
a small cryptanthus 
1-2 small neos, off the floor!

6) As Lou says, seed the tank with springtails/isopods;
7) Small water source;
8) Monitor temp/humidity for a couple of weeks prior to introducing new frogs;
9) Do not expose the tank to sunlight, radiators or drafts--a small tank can fluctuate quicker than you think;
10) Get a good supplement;
11) No chemicals. No aerosols, colognes, cleansers to be sprayed in your room--PERIOD. If mom demurs, bitch-slap her.

One Q: How is the water coming out of your tap? (hardness, pH, etc.)

Hope this helps.


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

This seems like the best answer as far as I can tell by skimming this thread. Stress, small tank size for 3 frogs and possibly parasites or bacterium buildup from small enclosure. I think anything bad that frogs can live with normally like a small amount of parasites or harmful bacteria can tend to build up in a small enclosure in cycles and cause issues.

-Nish



Dendro Dave said:


> I think you needed to do way more research. You should have at least known mixing morphs was frowned upon if you had done any research.
> 
> You're problem was probably a combination of factors...
> 1. To many frogs in a small space
> ...


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Good call, nish.


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