# i'm not good at keeping them alive!



## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

i think another one of my brazilian yellowhead froglets is gonna pass away,
i'm very frustrated, and very sadd, i've tried my best to keep them healthy
but they just seem to be getting thinner and slower with age...
the problem seems to me that they are unable to catch their food...
its not like the food is too fast for them, they take multiple strikes
at the same fly before it moves away...
their tongues don't seem to be sticky, or they just have really bad aim...
one of them had terrible spasms today and i think he died in front of me,
i'm too disgusted to go back in the room and look to see if he is alive...
what can i do for the remaining survivor? i started with three and seem to be down to one already... i have a group of 8 G+Black auratus that
are growing like champs, and they have no problem catching the same flies...

any suggestions?
the tincs are kept in individual rubbermaid shoeboxes,
coco husk bedding, some moss, some pothos, and some leaves
make up their surroundings, they don't seem very scared of me,
they just seem to be starving and withering away...
i dust with herpivite and rep-cal from saurian...


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

*dying frogs*

Feel free to contact me at my hospital.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

I have heard of a Short-Tongue-Syndrom before, but can't find where I saw it... I will keep looking for you, Wait I think I heard about it at IAD. 
The problem sounded the same. I will try getting you a email addy for someone at the Philly Zoo.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2004)

Also, I would get some plain pedialyte and give them a 30 min soak, that will give them a little energy, also do you have springtails?


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

no springtails but i'm thinking of getting some,
my problem is not that the flies are evading them,
its just they can't get them in their mouth...

i'll have to get some pedialight


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Any chance you could have something in the containers that is poisoning them? Contact DR Frye....



tkavan01 said:


> i think another one of my brazilian yellowhead froglets is gonna pass away,
> i'm very frustrated, and very sadd, i've tried my best to keep them healthy
> but they just seem to be getting thinner and slower with age...
> the problem seems to me that they are unable to catch their food...
> ...


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*I can't catch my food...*

I have had a few frogs have issues like this. Once we picked up two Alanis, and both had issues catching their fruit flies. Turns out, he fed the frogs slower moving foods like pinheads & termites. After this, I spoke with a couple other people who had gotten frogs from the same person and they had similar issues. It was like their tounges had not 'developed'?

Before contacting Dr. Frye you might want to write down a list of the things you have done & how you have prepared their containers - much like you did on your original post. Some things to add might be: cleaning products you use to clean containers, have you touched the frog's skin, substrate you are keeping them on etc. Having all the information at hard will help Dr. Frye diagnose any issues. 

In addition, contact the breeder you purchased the frog from. Discuss the situation with him. 

Good luck and keep us up to date,

Melis


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

i had emailed the breeder after the first one died, but i never got a response,
I figured it was just a failre on my part to regulate him carefully enough
the first one ate everything, he had no problem catching the flies...
his belly was huge when he died...

thanks for the support, i haven't called dr. frye yet, does he charge to talk on the phone? is it very expensive?


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2004)

Send him a PM and ask if he charges for consultation. He is usually very good at responding to messages promptly.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

When I called him he did not charge me. I had send him a couple e-mails and pictures before hand. I did order some meds from him, but that is all I paid for. He was a great help!



drunknmunky said:


> Send him a PM and ask if he charges for consultation. He is usually very good at responding to messages promptly.


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

well another one just died, so i'm left with only one of the three i started out with... anyone interested in doing a froggy autopsy to see if he had some sorta deformed tongue?

i hope the one i have left manages to survive, it would be very sad if all the money i spent on them (they where vvery expensive) went to waste...
but i don't think he will its not that he doesn't have the energy, i watched him trying to catch flies, and he made at least five attempts to catch the flie before it moved away, and then he tried a different one...


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Thats too bad, sorry to hear that. You could freeze the dead one and send it to DR. Frye to see if he can give you a idea what might be wrong...



tkavan01 said:


> well another one just died, so i'm left with only one of the three i started out with... anyone interested in doing a froggy autopsy to see if he had some sorta deformed tongue?
> 
> i hope the one i have left manages to survive, it would be very sad if all the money i spent on them (they where vvery expensive) went to waste...
> but i don't think he will its not that he doesn't have the energy, i watched him trying to catch flies, and he made at least five attempts to catch the flie before it moved away, and then he tried a different one...


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*Do not Freeze*

If you want a necropsy, do not freeze the frog. Put him in a ziploc back in the fridge. Also, do not submerse the frog in anything. 

If you want the expense of doing a necropsy ($75 plus shipping with Dr. Frye) that is how the frog must be preserved. Otherwise, you will not get reliable results.

I would try to contact the person you got them from again and see what they say. Did you pick these up at IAD?

Melis


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Do not Freeze*

opps i thought was to be frozen.. my fault.



melissa68 said:


> If you want a necropsy, do not freeze the frog. Put him in a ziploc back in the fridge. Also, do not submerse the frog in anything.
> 
> If you want the expense of doing a necropsy ($75 plus shipping with Dr. Frye) that is how the frog must be preserved. Otherwise, you will not get reliable results.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2004)

This really sucks. I think many of the people on the board can relate to this type of experience, where they can't figure out what is wrong. Its really tough to watch something suffer and not know what to do about it. You have a couple of choices here. One, which I would do, is to hunt that breeder down. I highly doubt that you are the only one having this problem, since you got 3 with the same issues. Tell them whats going on and see if they are sketchy about it or genuinely concerned. That will be clue number one as to who's fault it is. Two, get a partial necropsy done if step one doesn't work. That does cost money, but provides a piece of mind and great ammo for getting your money back. Finally, you could just chalk it up as a loss and move on. Don't get discouraged by the loss. It is financially and emotionally frustrating, but I'm sure the members, including myself, will help you get back the mojo 



tkavan01 said:


> well another one just died, so i'm left with only one of the three i started out with... anyone interested in doing a froggy autopsy to see if he had some sorta deformed tongue?
> 
> i hope the one i have left manages to survive, it would be very sad if all the money i spent on them (they where vvery expensive) went to waste...
> but i don't think he will its not that he doesn't have the energy, i watched him trying to catch flies, and he made at least five attempts to catch the flie before it moved away, and then he tried a different one...


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

no i bought them online a few weeks back, but the vendor was at IAD,
i think i'd rather save the 75 to replace the dead frogs, i'll probably just try to find older ones to limit the risk of them being defective like this...


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2004)

If you dont mind me asking, were these frogs just out of the water or were they established juveniles? I have had a similar experience with 2 froglets where they were unable to target the flies and eventually had to be euthanized as they had lost a significant amount of weight. I was unable to determine if poor location from eyesight problems or actual tongue deformities was to blame.

If possible, finding a slightly older juvenile is the way to go. Sometimes just out of the water froglets just dont make it.

If I can answer any questions just let me know. Dont give up, just chalk this bad experience up to a learning one.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*Necropsy - how to prepare your frog....*

Wanted to post a note on how to prep a recently deceased from for necrosy. I have taken the info below from a post Dr. Frye had made earler. I think the info is good. 



Dr. Frye said:


> ...Please package the frog immediately on moist paper towels in an air-tight container and put immediately in the refrigerator. Ship on ice (but NOT FROZEN) overnight to my hospital. Try to let me know that the frog is coming. I will not waste my time or your money on a rotten frog.


As many of you know, getting the frog to the vet fast is very important. Your vet won't be able to do much with a rotting frog.

Melis


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

I'm guessing that they where out of the water a little while before they shipped, i'll have to try and get in touch with the vendor and ask,
when i recieved them the one who ate was significantly larger, and he increased in size rapidly while he was alive, but not the other two,

when i got my auratus i recieved one a large group of them which had all been kept together in a large cage, they where of varying sizes, but all of them where healthy except for one who looked like he had just morphed,
the person i bought them from said he had come out with the rest, but he's the most shy and the smallest so i guess he was out competed for food, i seperated him in his own shoe box and he has put on a significant amount of weight, he's the only one i've named (runt) too... 
saddly i think he is the coolest looking out of the bunch even if he is the smallest... (one can replace he with she if they feel so inclined, but to just jot it down its easier to say he)

like i said i'm not gonna be sending him off to get cut up, i'll save the money, and from now on i'm probably gonna avoid purchasing young froglets again... it'll restrict what i can buy, but what else can you do...


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

so i put the remaining yellow head in a deli cup with some pedialight, and he seemed to be doin good, so i tossed him a few FF's and he managed to get down three pretty quickly(still took a few attempts each time) but then he got to the fourth one and hetried at least 10 times to get it, its like he doesn't even have a tongue at all, the only ones he caught he actually "bit" of the ground...


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

well i thought i'd give you guys an update...
the remaining frog died sometime yesterday...
it was sadd, he never was able to catch food properly
his tongue i guess never developed fully, its sad bc these where my
first frogs and to get 2 bad ones like this really sucks,
my 8 green and black auratus are doing great,
my friend (also known as thecheat) was down last weekend
and couldn't believe how much weight they have put on compared to the
ones he recieve(we both purchased the frogs from the same guy at the same time...) not that his are unhealthy by anymeans...
I've even managed to get the runt of the group up to almost a normal size, so i don't think the death of the last 2 frogs with the malformed tongues can really be blamed on me, i supplement my frogs 4-5 times a week now i just wish there could have been something i could have done for my other frogs to spare them from their slow and gruesome death  I'm debating leaving a bad review for the place ibought the frogs from but i think it would be invain bc so many other people love them and all the dry goods i have recieved from them where great...


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## Guest (May 19, 2004)

frogs are like people, sometimes they just dont get put together right. it looks like nothing of your fault, as you have a large group that seems to be doing great, so at least you can be confident in that. The malfunctioning frogs are just part of the life cycle like anything else. 

Look at it from a darwinian aspect: if the frogs were in the wild, they wouldn't have survived either, so you at least gave them more of a chance than they would have had otherwise.


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

So have you followed up with the vendor (suggested much earlier in this thread)? Usually one that has such a loyal following has it for a reason... because they provide quality product AND service, which includes fair resolution of problems like this. The fact that you have another dart colony thriving should give credibility to the theory that the problems were with the frogs/stock, not the keeper/care.

hth,
JOSH


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## Kase (Feb 15, 2004)

*Tongues*

I have a friend, who back in december bought two azureus, and wanted me to take care of them, from a pet store. I noticed one was a little skinny so i separated him. I later noticed that ... HE HAD NO TONGUE! I kept him a live for a good 5 months but he had to kick the can some time or the other, and eventually did. His body frame stayed the same and he didn't grow much. It was hard and I felt bad because my friend spent a pretty penny on two frogs and one died. I feel your pain though- and this tongue syndrome is more common than you think. Good luck with the auratus, once they start breeding you won't be able to get them to stop.


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