# Bromeliad covered in scale - alcohol? bleach?



## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

I have once bromeliad covered in scale. So far it doesn't look like it's spread to anything else. I want to try and save it before trashing it. 

I did the dry ice bombs with no effect. Should I cut/pull it out and submerge for 20 minutes in water and bleach, alcohol, or soap mix?


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## dufus (Feb 20, 2007)

In scale?
You mean like lime scale or a disease?


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

he means scales as in those tiny little bastard bugs that get everywhere since no one is responding i guess i will put in my somewhat limited knowledge i have with dealing with them personally i would not use bleach isolate the plant and coat a q tip in rubbing alcohol and rub them off like with spider mites do this several times thats what i did with my big whatever the hell that one plant of mine is and i have not had a them show up again but i had it isolated for a month at least before i dared introduce it to other plants


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

What I would do is first remove the plant. Then you can usually physically remove the scale with your thumb if you rub just right. After that, a soak in a 3% bleach/water sol. for 20 mins should kill the rest. I may not put it back in the viv though...


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

*NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO BLEACH!*
Scale are insects. All insects breath through their skin.

*USE HORTICULTURAL OILS!*

They literally smother and suffocate the insects.

This is a large image of scale REALLY close up...









They are brown and look like little bronze bumps on the stems. Usually on woodier plants.

So spray yoru plant with a NATURAL horticultural oil, biodegradable kind.

Then let plant sit for while, and they will die after couple hours. Then physically remove their dead bodies. Keep away form other plants until you know no more scale will grow, and presto.

Horticultural oils also work on APHIDS GREAT!

Natural Horticultural oils are 100% safe for plants, you, and pets liek frogs and will only kill the insects on the plant.


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## dufus (Feb 20, 2007)

Link us up monopoly bag!
I'd like to buy some if i could find it.


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## philthelizard (Sep 24, 2006)

so can youactually put the horticultural oil inside the viv?


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

philthelizard said:


> so can youactually put the horticultural oil inside the viv?


alot are harmful, but he might know of some that arent. non the less be very prudent with them...


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I'll add that there is absolutely ZILCH NOTHING NADA ZERO wrong with using a weak bleach solution. I've done it on ohhh... hmm... a few THOUSAND bromeliads.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Well yes, some horticultural oils are like petroleum based, BAD FOR PEOPLE AND ANIMALS!

others are natural plant oils.

others can be chemicals.


Here...

Oil here, this is a common oil, Neem Oil made form Neem Tree...
http://search.stores.ebay.com/Heave...ooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfsubZ14QQsaselZ53124404QQsofpZ0

IPM, or integrated pest management is a good and environmentally practice to use when dealing with plant and gardening or farming...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Pest_Management

About using the Oils in the Vivarium, yes. If you remove all inhabitants like your frogs, I would have to say that then spraying it with a natural safe 100% biodegradable oil like Neem Oil would be fine, but then I would recommend to clean of glass, might be hard, but safe. Then wait only a day like maybe 16 hours or so before putting frogs or any animals back in.

It should be 100% safe for like 99.9% of plants. Although, it can smother plants, so read the directions. Better to use when not blooming, and just mix oil in correct ratio with water.

To save money I prefer to buy the oil concentrated, then mix with water myself and different ratios for each plant. This can be found either online or sometimes on the Oil containers.

If you have any other questions about IPM please just either ask me or PM me, tons of IPM info online too!

I hope many of you turn toward IPM and natural fertilizers for your lawn etc. Good Luck!


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Frogtofall said:


> I'll add that there is absolutely ZILCH NOTHING NADA ZERO wrong with using a weak bleach solution. I've done it on ohhh... hmm... a few THOUSAND bromeliads.


Yes, but I feel using too weak of bleach may be not as effective, and obviously you can't put bleach INTO the vivarium, where as Neem Oil and other safe oils could be as long as no inhabitants other than the plants and the bug pests are in there.

Plus, bleach is not as safe for YOU as a human.


(Sorry about the double post but I feel that my two statements should be separate)


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## SeaDuck (Nov 8, 2006)

Monopolybag, 

Horticultural oils will wreck havoc with the micro fauna, beneficial bacteria and fungus in the closed system of a vivarium. Neem oil is not going to be specific and kill only the scale. In the yard they are a great idea but not so good for a vivarium. Scale is tough and spraying will not be as effective as a soaking. The tight overlapping leaves and axels pose a problem. Extracting the plant, treating and quarantining are a better idea. I would prefer the chlorine but the oil could be used instead. That said leaves formed in a vivarium are going to be soft and like new growth very prone to being burned by oils or insecticides. With my thirty some years as a horticulturist I’ll tell you I have burned less with a week bleach solution that any of the arsenal of chemicals available natural or not.

Robert


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

MonopolyBag

News flash, the weak solution has been said to be MORE effective at the treatment. Whats also nice about bleach is that it doesn't leave behind any residue if the plant is given a sufficient fresh water rinse and air flow. The bleach sol. also isn't limited to just the bugs, it'll wipe out fungus and other nasties.

You should never spray ANYTHING into your viv aside from clean water. Ever.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

SeaDuck said:


> Monopolybag,
> 
> Horticultural oils will wreck havoc with the micro fauna, beneficial bacteria and fungus in the closed system of a vivarium. Neem oil is not going to be specific and kill only the scale. In the yard they are a great idea but not so good for a vivarium. Scale is tough and spraying will not be as effective as a soaking. The tight overlapping leaves and axels pose a problem. Extracting the plant, treating and quarantining are a better idea. I would prefer the chlorine but the oil could be used instead. That said leaves formed in a vivarium are going to be soft and like new growth very prone to being burned by oils or insecticides. With my thirty some years as a horticulturist I’ll tell you I have burned less with a week bleach solution that any of the arsenal of chemicals available natural or not.
> 
> Robert






OK contradiction. Frogfalls states weak bleach help eliminate fungus, so does bleach, but you say that is bad. Well, THEY WILL BOTH KILL BACTERIA AND FUNGUS! So, maybe doing it outside of the vivarium is better because yes, the bacteria and fungus can be a good thing.

I still have to disagree with many of your statements. Oils will not burn the plants. Natural Oils like the Neem Oil can't burn anything. It is similar to canola oil. Try to burn a plant with canola oil, not possible. You may be refering to "smothering" the plant. Yes, if someone inexperienced tries and uses the oils and doesn't mix with water or not enough water, then their plant can get smothered, similar to what happens to the insects.

Both insects and plants breath through their skin / outer cells and will get smothered if oil is applied to them, kind of like if a person is covered in latex paint, they will feel like they are developing flu like symptoms.

Plants are obviously larger than insects, so less oil is needed to hurt and kill most of the insects. And the plants are fine, that is why you mix oil with water.

Now, about not killing all the insects and being less effective. IPM will not get rid of EVERY insect like chemical pesticides and things like that, but will only *control* the pests. But in the long run will do less damage to the environment and in this case the vivarium and plants. Yes you may also need to physically remove them, but this is why after spraying, remove all of them physically too.


Would you rather use chemicals on your vegetables that you plan to eat, to get rid of aphids, or an oil or lady bugs?

Yes the lady bugs and oil are not as effective, but they will never increase the chance of causing damage to you when you eat the vegetable.

Chemical pesticides and fungicides increase chance of cancer and are now to be thought to be a cause of slight mental retardation and learning disabilities in small children.

Normally all of our apples, and other plants we eat are covered in pesticides, yes washing helps, but still some inside. Many foods are now grown organically though.

Well my point is yes, at the time bleach and other things may seem more effective, but they have a higher risk to the plants, user who applies it, and the animals that will use the plant.


So far I have used Neem oil on wysteria (spelling error sorry) and roses in my backyard to get rid of aphids, and so far so good, there is a manageable amount of aphids now on them doing no damage to the plant. Before I applied the spray I had major damage.

Also I used Neem oil on scale on my Erythrina and waited a day, then with a pencil tip removed all of the dead scale, and they came of *EASILY* and no more scale. Plant is doing MUCH better than before. Plant suffered no harm form the oil, and I can be sure that the oil wasn't harmful to me either.

*So I would not recommend using the oils directly inside the vivarium, due to the fact that Fungus and Bacteria will also be harmed. I was not thinking of that earlier, sorry, but I will stick to my opinion that the IPM and oil will be safer for using and will work fine. It is up to you whether you use it or not.*


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

Ok, I'm going to try soaking it in weak bleach water solution first. Because there is so much scale I don't know if I could possibly get them all with a q-tip and alcohol. 

If that doesn't work then I'll try the q-tip method on whatever is left. 

Thanks fellas.


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## SeaDuck (Nov 8, 2006)

MonopolyBag
I still have to disagree with many of your statements. Oils will not burn the plants. Natural Oils like the Neem Oil can't burn anything. It is similar to canola oil. Try to burn a plant with canola oil said:


> http://www.planetnatural.com/planetnatu ... -label.pdf[/url]
> http://www.planetnatural.com/planetnatu ... l-msds.pdf


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## USCraig (Jul 25, 2007)

Neem oil can also draw out the color of some evergreen plants.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

skronkykong said:


> Ok, I'm going to try soaking it in weak bleach water solution first. Because there is so much scale I don't know if I could possibly get them all with a q-tip and alcohol.
> 
> If that doesn't work then I'll try the q-tip method on whatever is left.
> 
> Thanks fellas.


OK thanks for completely disregarding my recommendation for Neem Oil! Just kidding, it is up to you.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

SeaDuck said:


> MonopolyBag
> I still have to disagree with many of your statements. Oils will not burn the plants. Natural Oils like the Neem Oil can't burn anything. It is similar to canola oil. Try to burn a plant with canola oil said:
> 
> 
> ...


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

I just don't feel like purchasing anything extra. Might as well try what I have laying around the house! Appreciate the advice though.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Up to you.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

MonopolyBag said:


> Yes... well, don't use as high concentration, don't poor into lakes or rivers, it will break down over time, and I said SIMILAR to canola oil. But have you ever tried to poor bleach onto your skin, or poor it into a fish tank?


The same goes for the bleach. Don't use a high concentration. Hence the whole reason we've said to use a weak mixture. Again, bleach will not leave any residue.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

OK, man you are making this sound like it is a competition. No need to repeat yourself, like 80 times. I think this post os over. Each of us are just throwing out our opinions and ideas. And my point is that IPM is a good and environmentally safe thing to do. If you feel that dumping a bleach solution down the drain after dunking a plant is ok, and not a waste of bleach to FILL AN ENTIRE bucket, then fine. I don't care about your cost of it, but it does affect the same world that I live in.

Thanks.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I actually I repeated it 79 times. :roll:


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Double post.


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

MonopolyBag said:


> OK, man you are making this sound like it is a competition. No need to repeat yourself, like 80 times.


I dunno man. You were the one going on about the neem oil just as much. :lol:


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

OK, I wold you I was done. Thanks.


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

MonopolyBag said:


> not a waste of bleach to FILL AN ENTIRE bucket,
> 
> Thanks.


I only used about 2 teaspoons of bleach. Does that mean I need to do it again filled all the way to the top?


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Its just relative to however much you use. So if you use 1 gal of water (which is 3785 mL) then you'd use 114 mL of bleach. Thats all.


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