# worms or something else?



## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I hope its okay to post here about a frog other than a pdf, if not this can be moved to the "other frogs" section. I noticed today that in the poop of my tomato frogs there seems to be something that looks like worms. I was hoping it was just springtails on it breaking it down, but I sprayed with water and nothing moved. I was hoping that if it was springtails then spraying it with water would make them disappear. I do have some panacur powder. I am wondering if I should treat both frogs in this tank, and if so how do I do it. Should I also do something to the tank? Will worms live outside of the body of the frog, or will just treating the frogs be enough?


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

Well there are a ton of things it would be.. Parasitic worms or just normal white worms that live in your tank breaking down fecal/plants etc. Before you go and give medicine to a frog that might or might not have anything i would recomend taking some of the fecals and sending them to Dr Fry. Only 15 bucks...


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Dr. Frye said "I am not familiar with tomato frogs or their common paraites, weights, etc. Sorry." <edited, Catfur>

I am almost 100% positive it is worms now, because the frog also pooped in the water bowl (again) and as soon as she got out of the water bowl I looked at it and it, too, had the worms in it. Fresh poop in the water that has not had time for anything else in the viv to get on it yet. So my frogs seem to have a pretty bad case of worms, and they need to be treated. I have called every vet in my area and none of them know anything about frogs. So please, someone tell me how to do this. I have the medicine already, fenbendazole, I just need to know how to do it.


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## lacerta (Aug 27, 2004)

Is your frog sick ? Is he inappetant, listless, or showing any clinical signs of disease? People often equate the presense of parasites with some sort of disease condition when this is often not the case. In the case of many reptiles, the host-parasite relationship is often quite benign. With frogs, I have yet to find a single wild caught specimen that wasn't chock-a-block full of Rhabdias or some other nematode parasite, and yet quite healthy. In fact, being parasite-free would be a most unnatural state. Is your tomato frog WC ? 
Many (maybe most) species of parasitic nematodes that infect frogs are capable of alternating parasitic generations within the host, with freeliving generations in the soil or water. The freeliving 3rd-stage juvenile (J3) can then reinfect the host via percutaneous penetration. Normally a healthy frog's immune system can regulate the parasite load to a point where the frog is free of any disease symptoms. I suppose in a vivarium the reinfection rate could be pretty high. In the wild, parasite loads are often seasonal. The highest loads probably correspond to breeding seasons where large aggregations of frogs gather in vernal pools. During the less active months loads will drop as the frogs are dispersed and are reinfected at a lower rate. 
I have zero experience in administering antihelminthics to amphibians so can't help you there . I would probably not treat, or be too concerned as long as the frog was behaving normally and feeding well. Considering the lifecycle of many of these nematodes, I would quarantine your frog and put him on damp paper towels for awhile. Remove all waste immediately. Most of these heterogonic worms require at least 36 hours after they are passed to molt and develop into the infective J3 stage. I would think that removing waste quickly and keeping the quarantine tank clean will significantly reduce the adult parasites in the frog due to the short lifespan of many of these worms. I would do a fecal exam (flotation) every few days to monitor the number of eggs/larva being passed. I would bet that after a couple weeks in quarantine you would see a significant reduction. 
George


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Thank you. The frog does not act sick and is eating well. Someone else that I have been talking to through email suggested it is probably cricket eggs. I am feeding adult crickets and have just started doing so over the last couple of weeks, so this does make sense. As far as I know the frogs are not WC, but I can't be positive. It seems that most tomato frogs in the trade are WC, but not all. I got them from a pet store who says they have to buy all their animals from someone with a license, so I'm assuming that the frogs are CB. I am, however, taking the frogs today to be weighed and checked out to be sure. The vet has no clue how to treat frogs, but is willing to try, so I'm a little nervous about this. Also the stress of having to catch them and carry them around in little containers today might be stressful for them. I hope not. Thanks for the reply. It was scary when I saw all those "worms". I don't want to lose a frog!


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

> Dr. Frye said "I don't treat tomato frogs so I can't help you."


Ok, so maybe that is not the exact words he used, I can't remember as I didn't keep the email. It was something to that effect. I did not realize that he specialized only in dendrobates, I thought he did all reptiles and amphibians and would be familiar with these frogs or could find the information that I needed. I don't know where I got that info! Someone corrected me on that privately. I do understand not wanting to give advice on an animal that you're not familiar with.

There is absolutely no vet anywhere close to me who treats amphibians. I looked before I ever bought the frogs. The nearest one is a several hour drive in the next state. I did manage to find someone who is familiar with these frogs and offered some advice. The conclusion was that what I am seeing is probably cricket eggs, since I am feeding adult crickets. I can go back to buying baby crickets for a while and see if the "worms" go away. If they do then its nothing to worry about. I did take both frogs to a vet today to get them weighed. I have the worm medicine on hand already, I got it and electolytes before getting the frogs in case I ever needed it. this vet is strictly small animal, cats, dogs, an occasional bird. he said he has never treated a frog before. He was kind enough to weigh the frogs for me and say he would try to find worming information for me over the weekend and get back to me Monday. I will try the change in crickets first and see if that helps, if the worms do not go away with baby crickets, I will follow the advice this vet gives me on administering the worm medicine to the frogs. Even though he doesn't treat them himself, I'm sure he can find out from a reputable source. The only reason he was willing to do this for me is because my mom takes a lot of business to him through her "no kill" animal rescue center she runs. All her dogs get vet checked by him and spayed or nuetered before getting adopted out. It helps to have a source!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Often all you need is a vet that is willing to work with on the frogs. If you can provide the information or the contacts for the information, then the vet can provide the treatment. 

If you get a clean fecal on the frogs while they are on paper towels, then the vet should be able to do a fecal float and tell you whether or not there are worms in the fecal or not...

Ed


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