# big woody



## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

ok now that i have everyones attention i will start my viv build thread. this project started so i would have something to do while my wife recovered from a broken hip. its always good to do a project of this size when your wife cant come down the steps to the basement to see the mess you are making. this build is an inwall that will sit behind my new desk and next to my new reef tank that i will finally get working on once this build is done. now for the dimensions. the viv is 108" long by 60" tall by 48" deep with a 39 by 22 inch bump out on the right side. the viv is a plywood construction sealed in epoxy with an epiweb background. now for the tricky part seeing if i can figure out how to link pics.







ok that worked out ok. this pic shows the sealed viv with the floor drain in place in green, the black circulation fans, and the white pvc pipes that will be used to keep fresh air on the glass to help keep it clear. the tall black pipe is a support that i cant move so it will be incorporated into the viv. the powdercoated square tubing is going to be the support for my desktop.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i may be missing some of the build pics i took on a camera that i cant find right now so this will skip forward a bit.







this pic shows the epiweb in place and the rear corner rock wall/waterfall in place. ive also made 3 cork tube trees. a small stream will flow down to the pool in the foreground of the pic. the hydroton is now in place and covered in a layer of landscape felt. this pic was taken after my black friday trip to oak hill nursery for a mounted orchid buying frenzy. two other views of the viv at this same stage of completion.







this is the end on view into the viv. nothing like 9 feet to give a sense of depth. the next view is the front view looking in







the wood you see hanging down is just temporary to help me decide on how far down from the ceiling i want the front woodwork to extend.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

needed to mix up a bit of abg mix. if i dont complete this build it is because i followed someones advice on saving money by buying bags of natural hardwood charcoal and breaking it up to the right size. i may have saved 50 bucks or so but i also think im going to die of black lung disease. its never a good thing when your spit from a deep cough is exactly the same color as the carbon black you used to dye the epoxy in the tank. i could also go from the organic solvents i used to thin silicone for coating fake roots. anyway here is a pic of mixing the abg


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## drutt (Oct 4, 2011)

Looking really good, would love to have that space at home to be able to do a big viv. Just one question, did you do a false botton as in a normal size viv?


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## xm41907 (Nov 26, 2007)

Looking great so far. What epoxy did you use? I'll be starting a plywood setup after Christmas and haven't decided the best method for waterproofing. I'm curious about the structural support. Is it directly attached to the plywood? How will you be accouting for any settling that may occur?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Can't wait to see this build out!


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

holy canole! i love this, it's going to be a great vivarium.


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## MollyAttack (Sep 24, 2011)

Those cork tube trees are sweet! How did you make those? Just GS the branches on? I would love to have that giant of a viv to work with..


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

ok first to answer the questions. no eggcrate false bottom. just a layer of the landscape felt to protect the epoxy from abrasion and then 2 inchs of hydroton. the epoxy is the the thin epoxy from us composites directly onto the plywood lining







those pics may show the first untinted coat of epoxy better. i used fiberglass in the corners,seams and over the entire bottom. i dont expect to get alot of settling the tank is more than strong enough to hold a bunch of people without shifting, i think it will easily maintain without serious settling. the next pic shows a little bit of the 4" pvc pipe that makes the bodies of the left and right back trees. the far right tree is actually a 4 inch structural post for my house. then cork with gs to fill in the cracks.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

forgot to put the last pic in that last post







that shows the pvc pipe that makes the tree core.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

cant resist putting in a few pics of it in its near current state. still no glass and need to put the misting/watering system in place today.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

looks beautiful! but i'd get rid of the bamboo, it doesn't look quite right in there. otherwise, i wish this was my vivarium!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Gonna be fantastic!!


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## ExoticPocket (Dec 23, 2010)

Whoah!!!! Amazing! Are there any frogs going in this tank?

-Alex


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## xm41907 (Nov 26, 2007)

Very nice. Your build has me even more motivated to do a plywood setup. Mine won't be near as big as yours but I'm hoping to get roughly 3ftL X 2ftW x 3ftT. How much did the epoxy run you? I've been thinking of using Drylok instead. It's roughly $30 per gallon. Are you planning any extensive water features?


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## xm41907 (Nov 26, 2007)

Also, are those vines and branches hand made? They look awesome!


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## moraki (Nov 5, 2011)

Amazing looking tank, i love the feel of the whole thing looks very organic and not man made. 

I sure hope you got a good coating on that 4 inch lally column.... they do like to rust when exposed to moisture. But thats a heck of a way to hide an ugly basement column.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i put multiple coats of epoxy over the column. i know about the rust as the column behind my reef rusted until i sealed it well. the epoxy wasnt that expensive. i used just about 2 gallons of 3/1 thin epoxy. for my build and some of that was used on areas other that the plywood. all of it was from us composites. they seemed to have the best price on epoxy and it was not that hard to work with. also it only slightly smelled up the house. the vines roots and branches are a mix of fabricated ones using thinned silicone over rope covered with peat/coir; and real cedar roots, cedar branches, and wild grape vines. im still up in the air about the bamboo. i definately dont like it the way it is right now. i will probably add 3 more along with more short pieces on the ground to see if it looks better that way. i would like to have some bamboo in there as i plan on keeping some small geckos in there.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

ok this is my deeply philosophical part of this thread. the purpose of this build is to make something that i find to be asthetically pleasing. i will be mixing in this build. i currently have plants from 6 continents and quite a few islands. i am new to pdfs and realize that i have alot to learn, but i would appreciate it if the advice is kept positive and not completely condescending. i have learned from my time on reef central and madison area reef society forums that my enjoyment of my hobbies is increased by spending time on forums and i increase that pleasure by ignoring people who have nothing to add and are always sticking to an established norm as the only way of doing something. i will be keeping multiple species of pdfs as well as some geckos in this display. if something isnt thriving in the display i will try to remove it and either keep it in another display or find it a new home.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

i think that it would be possible to mix in this large tank. it is not going to be easy, and i would suggest using animals from the EXACT same locale, or else you put even more risk into it. i wouldn't do geckos IMO, they would simply stress the frogs out even more.

EDIT: also, make sure you do not get two species of arboreal frogs or two species of terrestrial frogs. they need their own space and it would be best if you did it that way as to increase your chances further. i'm not going to tell you you can't do it, as you seem pretty set on it. might i suggest these two frogs : Ranitomeya Imitator "Baja Huallaga" and Ameeraga Trivittata "Baja Huallaga" these are just one's i could think of off the top of my head.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Well, for positive advice I reccomend avoiding terribilis, because hey have big mouths, big appetites and might eat gecko tails and froglets. Avoid mixing frogs that can hybridize like multiple Ranitomeya species, or Dendrobates. How about something like aurotaenia and leucomelas and imitators


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

see my edit also. another good pair would be R. Siensis/Lamasi "Panguana Orange or Green" with Ameeraga Trivittata "Panguana".


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

If you are going to be throwing a bunch of random animals together willy nilly you might as well get some Geosearma crabs too


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

i was trying to suggest animals of the same locale....


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## ExoticPocket (Dec 23, 2010)

curlykid said:


> i think that it would be possible to mix in this large tank. it is not going to be easy, and i would suggest using animals from the EXACT same locale, or else you put even more risk into it. i wouldn't do geckos IMO, they would simply stress the frogs out even more.
> 
> EDIT: also, make sure you do not get two species of arboreal frogs or two species of terrestrial frogs. they need their own space and it would be best if you did it that way as to increase your chances further. i'm not going to tell you you can't do it, as you seem pretty set on it. might i suggest these two frogs : Ranitomeya Imitator "Baja Huallaga" and Ameeraga Trivittata "Baja Huallaga" these are just one's i could think of off the top of my head.


Just because a frog is "arboreal" does not mean that it won't go to the ground... A lot of ranitomeya need leaf litter so the smaller "arboreal" will come in contact with the larger "terrestrial" frogs a lot... Same with the more "terrestrial" frogs, they will also climb. Honestly, a big group of imitators or luecs would look really good in this tank, IMO.

-Alex


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

definately going to get some crabs for the tank and probably a couple millis as well. i may also get a couple of large roaches just for something different. something like the domino or death head roaches on bugs in cybespace.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I have purchased mantis from bugs in cyberspace... Nice guy and i got freebies


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## 1963 Falcon Hardtop (Dec 27, 2010)

I have a question. How are you going to build your access door into this build? I love the large size of these kind of builds but have not seen an access that I was pleased with. 

thanks
Bo


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## Edhurl (Nov 8, 2011)

Oh wow,i just realized who you are lol... When can I come over? All these great setups I always see are so far away and you, well I could probably walk to your house!


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

access to the viv will be from the front and from the short side. both of those sides will have the glass on a sliding track so i can access the viv from the front. the top glass will also be removable so i can go over the top back to get at stuff but honestly there is little room up there and i will only be able to get to stuff on the top 1/3 of the back wall. im sure i will host a wis frog group over here once the viv has settled in a bit and looks presentable. most likely in the spring.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I would strongly look into Polychrus sp. lizards for a setup that size. They're about 14" long, but most of it is tail. I'm currently keeping them with terribs, but I think they would do well with larger frogs. They are a true canopy species, so they need a lot of ventilation, high humidity, a basking spot in the mid-high 90s, and UV. Here's a couple pics:


















Another option could be some Gonatodes sp. or similar geckos kept terrestrially. Hourglass tree frogs would probably do well if care was given to insure their needs are met. I noticed trivs were suggested with a thumbnail as a possible mix - I've witnessed trivs consuming fairly large prey items, and would not trust them around thumbnails.

If you are going to be incorporating several water features, leucomelas and anthonyi are a popular mix in such tanks overseas, and work very well together. Both are bold and call frequently.


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## MollyAttack (Sep 24, 2011)

Be careful what geckos you go with because a lot of them need humidity cycles that go from 50% during the day to 80-90% at night and will have problems shedding if they're in constant high humidity. 

I like the lizards Zbrinks suggested, those are cool looking!


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

ok glass is in and woodwork is done so now its time for a few update pics. still working out the fine details on the misting system and working to keep the tank a bit cooler with all the lights on.







this shows the view from the bottom of the stairs to the basement. next is the view from the side.







a closer pic of the waterfall area







finally a cool shot of one of my leuks.


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## Edhurl (Nov 8, 2011)

awesome, how warm is it? have you tried the copper tube idea?


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

runs up to 82 degrees at the top with all the lights on. havent had time yet to get the water/air exchanger together but i have curled the copper into a heat exchanger that will fit into one of the back ducts. thought i would have all day today to work on it but ended up going to a course to get my concealed carry permit from utah.


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## woodworker83 (May 5, 2011)

nice work. cant wait to see more pics on the progress.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Whoa this is amazing. I only just ran into this. Is this in your home?

Yes I found that that charcoal dust goes right into my nose too. I sprayed water with a mister to reduce the dust while misting.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

yes its in my basement in front of my computer desk. watching a luec hunt right now.


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

And I thought I was strange for having 2 small tanks built into my computer desk. That is a beautiful setup, I don't think you need a reason to go outside anymore with that kind of wilderness around you.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

how do you access it? clean windows, feed, mist dry spots... so on?


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

*DROOL*

A bucket full of inspiration, my good fellow, is what you just gave me. When I finally settle down into a permanent house I WILL make an amazing jungle located directly in front of my desk. Thanks for sharing this with us!


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

missed a post while i was on vacation. i access the tank by sliding 2 of the large glass panels one their track. i hate the look of the overlap in the middle of the view so i decided to try it this way. one problem is that one of the panels when moved to the left hangs out into the room. this probably wouldnt be a problem if i could remember that it is there but...................







apparently i am a slow learner. that is the picture 4 days after the first time i broke the pane of plate glass and had it replaced with tempered glass. i was amazed how easy it was to break a large sheet of tempered glass with my forehead. luckily i am on good terms with the glass shop in town and he left his family christmas party early and replaced it with a sheet of plate glass the night i broke it.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i hate to leave it on such a bummer so now for a positive post. new pics of how things are growing in and lots of new plants added.







weird wasp that apparently was pupating in some of the wood or bark i placed in here.







at least one of my P. vits is now calling. this one is about 18 inched off the floor.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

what a WONDERFUL viv. It gave ME a big woody.


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## xm41907 (Nov 26, 2007)

Nice ichneumonid wasp. FYI, they're parasitic wasps, so you probably brought in a parasitized host, probably some sort of caterpillar. 

Awesome setup too. If we weren't looking to move in the next few years, I'd definitely be looking to make something similar.


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

this is awesome. How is everything growing in?


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

great viv....


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I like this Viv a lot, but I really don't like that bamboo at all. I think it looks really out of place in there.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Amazine big viv! I can't imagine how great its gonna look when it REALLY grows in. Thats gotta be quite an investment.


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## paulmont1719 (Sep 18, 2009)

Wish it were mine wow


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

That's one helluva wasp to spy hangin out in a viv. 

Looks great! Sorry about the glass - maybe you should put one of those sticky window decals on that side, like what you put to keep birds from dive bombing into windows


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## enfinite5 (Nov 23, 2011)

I cant believe thats all at your desk! that would be so awesome!


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

Amazing tank man but I'm confused do have frogs in there now or what and what do you have in the way of frogs 

Btw this tank is the biggest on dendroboard


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i do have frogs in there now. i have not made a big deal of it not wanting to irritate the non mixing crowd here. i have 4 leucs, 4 green and black auratus, 4 vittatus, 4 bakhus tincs, and 4 bumblebee toads. there is an occasional display when someone enters the corner that the larges vitatus has staked out as hers. lots of use of the high branches and rock by the leucs, auratus and some by the tincs. at least 2 different species are calling in there now. the vitatus were the first and now there is a low buzzing call that i havent identified yet.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

skanderson said:


> i do have frogs in there now. i have not made a big deal of it not wanting to irritate the non mixing crowd here. i have 4 leucs, 4 green and black auratus, 4 vittatus, 4 bakhus tincs, and 4 bumblebee toads. there is an occasional display when someone enters the corner that the larges vitatus has staked out as hers. lots of use of the high branches and rock by the leucs, auratus and some by the tincs. at least 2 different species are calling in there now. the vitatus were the first and now there is a low buzzing call that i havent identified yet.


I don't have an issue with mixing espally in a tank this size but watch out all those other than vitatus and toads can cross breed so don't sell the baby's but other than that the tank is incredible and congrats on having the biggest tank on dendroboard


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

no plans on trying to raise young out of this viv. i would never sell frogs of uncertain parentage. i wouldnt want to pollute the lines that are currently being kept. if fun looking crosses appear i will keep them.


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## Edhurl (Nov 8, 2011)

We.....I mean they need an update!


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

Edhurl said:


> We.....I mean they need an update!


 I 2nd that


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## jermajestyg (Jan 28, 2012)

*raises hand*
Oh me, too; me, too

I don't know if I'm allowed to third it haha

-Jeremy


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

could you please elaborate on the temperary ff cultures in the viv and how long they lasted? (ie container size, holes etc)


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i will have time to take pics and post new pics by next weekend. going to be busy shooting this weekend. i occasionally place an old ff culture without alot of flies in it into the viv if it has alot of larvae. i keep it in a nonmisted location and i tend to leave them in there for about a week. when i update i will start a new thread in the members viv section as the build will be as close to finished as my current orchid obsession will allow. will also start on my pics with all the plants labeled project. my hand drawn maps with all the plants named are getting increasingly difficult to understand do to some crowded areas.


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## Betta132 (May 12, 2012)

THIS. IS. INCREDIBLE!!!!!!! *faints* one thing: aren't bumblebee toads desert animals?


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i dont believe they are desert animals, they seem to be doing well in here so far but it has only been about 6 months.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

What did you use for the top and are those T5 fixtures hanging up there? This is awesome!


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Well contest for best office was just won.

Id like to see a picture with a nice tank fully scaped, and full of large SW fish next to that thing in the near future!


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i will be updating my thread on this tank in the members viv section from here out. but just to answer the questions here the t5s are supported about 3 inches above the glass on the wooden rim of the tank. there are 4 8 bulb t5 fixtures over the tank and as of this week one diy led over the bump out. the reef is now full of fresh water and the dead rock scaping will be occuring in the next couple weeks. i dont want to fill with salt and start up all the plumbing until after i come back from a meeting in california next month.


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## sharonahmed2000 (Feb 12, 2016)

Can you suggest books on how to build the ecosystem?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

doing all the updates from this thread on the other thread about the tank. I haven't read any good books on biotypic displays or ecosystem displays. I just read a lot of everything and go with what I like.


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