# How many of you smoke near your frogs?



## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

I saw a topic the other day where someone mentioned that they smoke in their frog room, which got my curiosity going and to kill this curiosity I wonder how many of you out there smoke near your frogs or in their rooms?


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I know this is bad for fish, so I ca only imagine how bad it is for terrestrial amphibians. Stay away from Lysol, Axe, etc. as well.


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

The cognitive dissonance it must take to be worried about what smoke will do to your frogs but not about what it will do to _you_ is mind-boggling.


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

Not only do I not smoke in my house, I never smoke anywhere.
If anyone wants a lecture on smoking or reasons and ways to quit, let me know.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Ahhhhh, do not vote if you do not smoke at all.

Sorry I should have made that more clear.


carbonetc - most smokers are well aware of what it does to them.


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

yea i smoke in herp/ frog room , thousands of chams geckos skinks snakes and frogs over the years none of them seemed to notice much but one old panther used to go out his way to sit as near my ash tray as possible , other than that nothing of intrest i have noticed.
before i hear about it i dont smoke around my kids and really want to quit but so far this is one habit that i cant seem to kick.as for the smoking lecture ill pass i already hear it every time i see my mom {hypocritical considering she used to smoke for 20 years}

craig 
ps intresting poll im kinda interested in seeing where this goes merry xmas all


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

My Girlfriends father bought a $4,000.00 umbrella cockatiel quite a few years back. He kept it in their living room with himself, his girlfriend and son - all of which smoked.

It died within a couple months and they wondered why....and wondered if it had some kind of "warranty".

A vet did a necropsy and found it's lungs to be caked. So obviously the bird's warranty was voided.

And here's the kicker. They purchased the bird with a credit card and had to continue paying on a deceased animal for over a year!

Sad but true. Hope someone - a vet, could weigh in here....


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## keekalmatter (Aug 9, 2008)

I don't smoke but I'm surprised there was no effect to the frogs from smoking near them. Considering what it can do to your lungs imagine lungs about 1/100 the size of yours. I know you aren't supposed to with birds for that reason. Maybe the smoke just isn't getting into the tanks. I would say be cautious doing it even though I don't know much about it seems like a bad idea.


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## Obliv79 (Oct 31, 2007)

All us smokers know what it can do to us this is no new fact. Please, just keep it to the subject of the animals and them being in a smoking enviroment.


Never had a single issue related to smoke around my frogs, but then again my tanks are sealed so not much of an issue from my point of view.


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## Shady (Sep 18, 2007)

I quit smoking cigarettes long before I got into darts but I can imagine this as being detrimental to frogs. From my understanding, frogs have very porous(sp?) skin that "soaks" up it surroundings like a sponge, so if the smoke is getting into the tank I'm sure the smoke is being filtered through their skin and harming their bodies. Just my 2 cents - please correct me if I'm wrong here.


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

keekalmatter said:


> I don't smoke but I'm surprised there was no effect to the frogs from smoking near them. Considering what it can do to your lungs imagine lungs about 1/100 the size of yours. I know you aren't supposed to with birds for that reason. Maybe the smoke just isn't getting into the tanks. I would say be cautious doing it even though I don't know much about it seems like a bad idea.


I wouldn't guess it was the lungs as much as the skin, it's so delicate and permaeable that it could be coated and clogged, not to mention it could absorb harmful chemicals.

By the way, sorry for voting, I don't smoke.


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

just out of curosity i guessing this is talking about cigs. 


but would say HERBS cause the same effect? or would they just get lazy


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## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

I have the occasional smoke in the frog room if I am working late or writing.. I also know a very well respected European hobbyist who smokes in his frog room all the time.. does this make it right? no but after his 25 years of keeping frogs he obviously has no ill effects showing. 

and yes lets keep it to smoking in the frog room as said smokers and every one else know what it does to ones health so if people want to discuss this start a thread in the lounge.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

dom said:


> just out of curosity i guessing this is talking about cigs.
> 
> 
> but would say HERBS cause the same effect? or would they just get lazy



yes ciggs  I did not title the poll 'hey who lights up a doobie near their frogs or in their frogs rooms?'


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

hexentanz said:


> yes ciggs  I did not title the poll 'hey who lights up a doobie near their frogs or in their frogs rooms?'


hahahah no you just said smoking  same concept.

mayeb tho we should make one of those, i think tho that most people wont actually say if they do or not but hey its all gravy.

i for one dont light up in the room with them and dont smoke cigs period anyways so i think there tiny lungs are safe


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

I was actually curious about this as well since I smoke and don't have frogs yet.

However, I do plan on or already have:

1. Having a frog room that I don't smoke in.
2. A rule already in effect for myself and anyone who enters the house. Smoking is only permitted in the living room. It does filter a little to the rest of the house but isn't as thick / dense.
3. I have 2 air filters in the living room already.
4. I plan to setup my tanks completely sealed with recirculating air systems.


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

my frogs will be smoke\drug free if i have anything to do with it!i will not stand for that under my roof!lol

due to my wifes transplant we rarely go places that have smokers.............sorry,lol


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## AlexD (Sep 19, 2007)

I smoke hookah in the same room from time to time...


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## Greg (Dec 25, 2007)

Yah I do smoke a little bit, about 1 or 2 cigars a week and maybe a half a dozen cigarettes a week ( and yes I know that it isn't benefiting my health any). But whenever I have a smoke I go sit in a chair on the outside patio or go for a short walk. My main reason for that is because my family that lives with me takes some objection to my smoking, so this way it doesn't hurt the health of my family anywhere near as much & it doesn't stink up the house (and I don't have to hear all the complaints about it). But now that you mention it I guess it probably could hurt critters especially such little frogs. Now I have one more reason to quit.


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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

I don't smoke at all. But I've visited this one guy in particular. He just kept on smoking in his little frogroom. Real small space, full of tanks. 
You really smell it from miles away that you were approaching his frogroom because of the smoke.

Anyway, he is that kind of breeder that just keeps on getting eggs and good frogs.
The amounts he's breeding, is just mental. Mostly Tinctorius & Auratus morphs.
But also some terribilis, tricolor, vittatus, trunctatus and some of the thumbnails species.

So if it really has such a bad effect on the frogs. I don't know. But for what I've seen, it doesn't hurt that much.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

I suspect that the biggest potential health detriment is if you have to handle the frogs while nicotine residue is still on your hands. Nicotine is lethal at certain concentrations, and the extreme permeability of amphibian skin makes them extremely susceptible to absorption of toxins.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Amphibians most often have moist, permeable, skin.

Smoking around them is not advised _at all_.

s


hexentanz said:


> I saw a topic the other day where someone mentioned that they smoke in their frog room, which got my curiosity going and to kill this curiosity I wonder how many of you out there smoke near your frogs or in their rooms?


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## SW20GSXR (Jul 14, 2008)

I vaporize in the same room as my luec, I've always wondered if he can get a contact high from it. But I dont think the vapor will effect him and plus my tank is sealed. Also vapor dont let off any smell and very little vapor comes out. My GF always tells me not to do it in there because she thinks it will harm him. So far so good... He eat's alot as it is!


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## GSXR_MURRHEE (Sep 16, 2006)

Lol @ sw20gsxr


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I love it how this thread is bringing out everyone's dark side.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

I smoke cigars, but never inside the house, so my frogs are not exposed.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I don't smoke at all. I can't say that I'd approve at all smoking anywhere near frogs. There may not be visible effects, but I'd be willing to bet that there are effects on the frogs. In certain cases, I'm sure they die, but I'd bet that it affects breeding, development, longevity, activity, immune system response, and neural behavior.

I'm sorry, but it seems, with all people have invested in their frogs, to make such a silly move that could and likely does jeopardize their investment.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Agreed mm, there is obviously no positive effect of smoking near the frogs, so why risk it? It seems silly to go through the effort of getting frogs, building a tank ect. and then do something that could potentially undo all of that.


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## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

SW20GSXR said:


> I vaporize in the same room as my luec, I've always wondered if he can get a contact high from it. But I dont think the vapor will effect him and plus my tank is sealed. Also vapor dont let off any smell and very little vapor comes out. My GF always tells me not to do it in there because she thinks it will harm him. So far so good... He eat's alot as it is!


Which is why we argue!

I know there are no visable signs of negative effects like MM said but im sure it does something to them.

Otis07: Good point!


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Can someone delete this thread? The poll got all messed up when non-smokers voted on an option meant for smokers.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

i have a theory on smoking around vivs..... In a viv, the substrate and air temps are generally higher then the ambient temp in your home. also you have a high concentration of plants in a small area producing oxygen.... this should all add up to create a positive air pressure....heat and smoke both rise, so my guess is that vivs actually repel most smoke and the little that gets in is for the most part filtered by the plants. Assuming you dont smoke right next to a viv or actually blow smoke into it.

i've keept darts for the last 5 years or so and smoked and have seen no problems, i had very few deaths up untill the ice storm that wiped out my collection and most of those were an escape,newly morphed froglets or due to a mistake on my part when i was just starting out.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

oooh burn! i got a bad reputation comment for that post  Oh and a good one too...so thanks to whoever sent that one!

Uh to answer what was said, my evidence is simple physics, and the fact that plants do filter air. Also from what i've read in the past and in this thread also (as this topic has come up before) most of the antidotal evidence seems to suggest there is little to fear. 

I am talking about ambient smoke finding its way in, and vivs not in a room completely choked with smoke. Also the lower in a room a viv is, the less likely smoke is to probably find its way in.

Im all for those who wanna play it safe though, there is definately no question that not smoking is better for you and poses 0 risk to the animals.
So dont smoke kids it is bad! but i love it and im addicted so for now i'll continue...maybe if/when i have kids or meet a girl i really really like who cant stand smoking...then i'll quit.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Well if you want to go with simple physics, then it would stand to reason that the smoke does get into vivs. As the smoke reaches equilibrium, it will maintain equal concentration throughout the room, including in the vivaria (yes, smoke and heat rise, but how long do you think it takes those particles to cool down? Not very long). While plants do help in cleaning the air, it's not like they're little vacuums and suck it up virtually instantaneously once the smoke particles get into the viv. It takes time for such to happen.

And while you may have one cig at a time in the frog room, it's not like when you leave, the smoke leaves with you. It's still there when you come back later and light up again.

Again, you may say that you don't see any effects, but I'd bet my frog collection that there are effects to some level. And over time, just like in humans, those effects will become more pronounced. Remember these frogs only weigh a couple of grams, if that. We weigh many kilograms. It wouldn't take nearly as much to affect the frogs as it does us.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Like i said its only a theory....and you make good points. It would be intresting if someone did some tests somehow, to see what concentrations of smoke actually make it in. how much ventilation, or lack there of makes a difference, and how fast and effective plants are at filtering the air. Also i dont know the density of smoke particles in relation to the rest of the air...nor if the heat/positive air pressure eminating from a viv would be enough to continuously push them away. Also since plants change their respiration at night, it could be that a viv is actually sucking more in at night then expelling...again dont know. 

I've only had frogs for a max of 5 years...thx ice storm! ;( which they live up to double or more of that time...so its entirely possible by year 8 or so i could of had them coughing up their lil lungs. 

Im definately not encouraging anyone, its just a personal choice, a risk that everyone has to weigh (that smokes) and decide for themselves. Im just not going outside to smoke every time especially in winter. Though just for the record i do change my ac/heat filters regularly, and employ at least 1 air purifier in my home at any given time, and refrain from spraying deoderizers and such near my vivs. Also rarely handle my frogs and wash my hands before i do, if i dont use a cup or something like that (which i usually do)


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

why would anyone want to smoke in the first place? you just waste your money to ruin ur lungs. and it is not attractive either, who likes someone with nasty lungs? grose


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## wimpy (Dec 14, 2006)

heatfreakk3 said:


> why would anyone want to smoke in the first place? you just waste your money to ruin ur lungs. and it is not attractive either, who likes someone with nasty lungs? grose


I don't think that Dendro Dave is going to invite you over very soon!


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## ~demon (Jan 1, 2009)

Lol thats funny!!!!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

heatfreakk3 said:


> why would anyone want to smoke in the first place? you just waste your money to ruin ur lungs. and it is not attractive either, who likes someone with nasty lungs? grose


Honestly i hated smoking when i was a kid till about 12, i even made my mom quit...but curiosity got the best of me, and i guess i had a sensitivity to it...and an allergy (in heavy smoke), but i got a wicked buzz...i actually couldnt smoke and drive when i first started...of course i was 12 so that wasnt much of a problem. But i quit after 1 summer and didnt start back up till sophmore in highschool when i started drinking...they kinda go together. Then it just got to be a habit, but it is kinda relaxing, still get a buzz occasionally, and it has social benifits also...i've met alot of girls from bumbing cigs or lights, and vise versa  And i've lost very few chances with girls because of it, but a few did draw the line.

Im still pretty young, so im hoping medical science will help me out in the future if i get into trouble, but im gonna live my life doing what i enjoy even if some of those things are harmful....as long as they kill me slow enough to enjoy it and dont land me in jail.

im lucky i dont put on weight much, but i still eat fairly decently though i do have a sweet tooth, and i exercise fairly regularly...and i only smoke at most half a pack a day usually. So i'll probably be around for awhile...and who knows maybe a girl, and/or having kids will convince me to quit but for now i dont want to...so not much point in trying to.

And for the record, i wasnt peer pressured into it, and i never thought it made me cool. And i would have tried other drugs anyways! ;P But i dont do any of those now just for the record also...just a lil experimenting in college. (thats the only kind of experimenting btw


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## leslie (Aug 29, 2008)

somecanadianguy said:


> yea i smoke in herp/ frog room , thousands of chams geckos skinks snakes and frogs over the years none of them seemed to notice much but one old panther used to go out his way to sit as near my ash tray as possible , other than that nothing of intrest i have noticed.
> before i hear about it i dont smoke around my kids and really want to quit but so far this is one habit that i cant seem to kick.as for the smoking lecture ill pass i already hear it every time i see my mom {hypocritical considering she used to smoke for 20 years}
> 
> craig
> ps intresting poll im kinda interested in seeing where this goes merry xmas all


Chantex helped me... I am a nonsmoker over two months now!

That's Life: Smokin'


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## susan_heydler (Dec 26, 2008)

We don't smoke, but have friends who do. We don't let anyone smoke in the house, and definitely no where NEAR the frog tanks.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I never smoked ciggies in the house, but we smoked OTHER things.( I am taking a break from it now) And one thing I would like to point out is the residue it leaves on the OUTSIDE of the viv glass that can accumulate after a while. Think about the windshield of your car if you smoke in there. I don't care what it is you smoke. Take a paper towel and wipe your windshield on the inside and see what you get. Yuk. If a cop wants to be a real dick to you they can do this to see if you smoke herb in your car.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

keekalmatter said:


> I don't smoke but I'm surprised there was no effect to the frogs from smoking near them. Considering what it can do to your lungs imagine lungs about 1/100 the size of yours. I know you aren't supposed to with birds for that reason. Maybe the smoke just isn't getting into the tanks. I would say be cautious doing it even though I don't know much about it seems like a bad idea.


The frogs were probably somewhat protected by the buffer of humidity in their tank, which prevents drier air from readily being exchanged with it. It also binds to particulate matter in the air, so that is probably the sole reason they didn't soon die. However, it will still build up and be a slow death, so don't be deceived into thinking it's safe. It's not safe for any creature----there are many dozens of toxins in cigarettes, from cyanide to formaldehyde, that are awful for any living thing.


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## AndyShores (Jan 6, 2009)

Ok not to follow her around or anything lol, but I've come across two major points concerning medical information that Susan has made tonight, and she's pretty dead on. This lady knows her stuff folks, listen to her


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

i know the question askes who smokes around or in the same rooms as their frogs. so im sure the poll is only for smokers but me being a non smoker and having a non smoking house hold i wouldnt know if they would mind or not but i could only imagin that the frogs would die with direct contact. but a friend of mine is a vet and says he has encountered amny sick animals due to excessive amounts of smoke in a house hold. so do the math. i look at it this way. if you wouldnt smoke in a closed room with your baby or children dont do it with your animals of any sort after all they are like our children. we clean them feed them and care for them all the same.


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## Azureus84 (Nov 26, 2008)

I've never been a smoker, so that's one thing my frogs don't have to worry about.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

AndyShores said:


> Ok not to follow her around or anything lol, but I've come across two major points concerning medical information that Susan has made tonight, and she's pretty dead on. This lady knows her stuff folks, listen to her


thanks----I really appreciate that---I just try to help.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

"They are considering using nicotine in Hawaii to control their populations of Eleutherodactylus frogs. Nicotine is found in tobacco. When applied directly on the frogs' skin, they die shortly (heart beats way too fast)."

A while back someone posted this information. I havent followed up on the facts to see if Hawaii or others have used this technique...

but certainly it speaks to one potential negative effect of tobacco around amphibians.

Thing is folks, you dont smoke and die, you smoke and live to smoke again....and then you die....some considerable time later.  Of various diseases some of which are quite obviously related to smoking [lung CA]and other not so obvious [ASCVD, HTN, Immune dysfx, PVD, COPD etc] to the user.

I just cant see the arguement that 'I've seen others smoke around their animals for years, with no ill effects' holding water with me.

I wish everyone success with quiting.


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## xfrogx (Jul 5, 2006)

sports_doc said:


> "They are considering using nicotine in Hawaii to control their populations of Eleutherodactylus frogs. Nicotine is found in tobacco. When applied directly on the frogs' skin, they die shortly (heart beats way too fast)."
> 
> A while back someone posted this information. I havent followed up on the facts to see if Hawaii or others have used this technique...
> 
> ...


I don't smoke...I don't see any point in it at all. But I wonder how many people are going to see this and stop smoking in their frog rooms but will continue to kill their kids with second hand smoke. My 2 cents. WOO!


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

frogparty said:


> I never smoked ciggies in the house, but we smoked OTHER things.( I am taking a break from it now) And one thing I would like to point out is the residue it leaves on the OUTSIDE of the viv glass that can accumulate after a while. Think about the windshield of your car if you smoke in there. I don't care what it is you smoke. Take a paper towel and wipe your windshield on the inside and see what you get. Yuk. If a cop wants to be a real dick to you they can do this to see if you smoke herb in your car.


oh Jason, 

The paternalistic doctor in me can't contain himself.....

You may have an 'issue' with laws [by my interpretation of your signature], and while I think alluding to using an illegal drug in an online public forum is sorta irresponsible and risky, I find it more strange that you would consider a police officer 'being a dick' to you if he is using a strategy to investigate whether someone is involved in an illegal act? An act that many believe contributes to traffic violations and potentially injurious crashes [notice I didn't use 'accidents'].

More of a Lounge topic....IMO


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

well Im sober now ( beer being the only exception) 
I mention this only for a few reasons
1 no matter what you smoke, it will leave a noticeable residue on glass around you. The thing with the windshield got a buddy of mine in serious trouble, I never smoked and drove
2 if you like being able to see into vivs, brown residue is surely a bummer
3 as a former bar employee in charge of cleaning daily before opening, I can tell you that nicotine builds up FAST on surfaces like glass. In a small frogroom I would bet that even a couple ciggies a day leaves a noticeable residue that would hinder viewing


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

oh, and my signature is a George Bush SR quote


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