# Light/Heat Stress



## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

A couple of days ago I must have bumped my timer switch when plugging in the vacuum. The lights (26w and a 13w) seemed to have been on for a few days/nights straight. This is for one 18x18x18. I noticed my trio of yellowbacks weren't as active, and one especially was just crouching down. I watched closely when I fed them, notcied there was an issue, checked the temp (76), and then the timer to find it was off. I turned the lights off and came back the next morning. 

The worse of the three seemed the same, so I pulled him. He's in a separated tub with very wet paper towels and a cocohut. He didn't eat ths morning, and thats now my concern.

The other two were slow to eat, but eventually did.

I soaked the one by himself for about five minutes in distillled water. There was a mucus looking residue sliding off of him. I'm not sure if thats normal or what.

Any experienced recommendations/knowledge would be much appreciated on what steps I need to take (if any) to rehab these guys.

tommy


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## Tjoen (Apr 17, 2010)

Hi,

76F doesn't sound a very high temp at all...

Maybe it's due to some other stressor...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

76 F isn't too hot and the 24 hours of light shouldn't have had that big of an impact. I would strongly suggest getting some fecals done. 

Ed


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

I agree, though Its normally around 68-72 in there.

I was thinking it had more to do with the endless lights for a few days, but I didn't want to rule out a 5 degree change in temp for a couple days straight.

I have the lights off for now, the other two are coming around seemingly well.

They have been housed together for about six months....

I'm guessing the light thing isn't a coincidence, because this is my display tank and I'm always observing their behavior. Which has been great...good eaters, not shy, never fight (or breed unfortunately).

Im hoping some dark, cool down time will bring the other one around, but I have not had anything like his happen before.


Ed...I am going to do fecals. I haven't had these guys done yet, so it's needed. He's still very healthy (looking) so hopefully if it's something other than stress ,I can get it taken care of in time.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

While not done on dendrobatids, there is a body of literature documenting the effects of changes of photoperiod on frogs and there isn't anything to indicate a short term variation like that causing issues. 

Personally I don't pay attention to temperature unless it is getting over 90 F in the tanks. 

Ed


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

jdooley195 said:


> I soaked the one by himself for about five minutes in distillled water.


Ed, you missed responding to this?

soaking a frog in distilled water is a BAD idea. it can drain the frog of nutrients since the frogs skin is permiable and osmoregulation will create a balance between the water and the frog. so if the frog has water, calcium, vit A, D, etc. in it and the water is pure H2O, then the water will suck the nutrients out of the frog until the water and the frog have the same composition.

its why people soak frogs in amphibian ringers solution (which will create a proper balance)

james

if someone wants to chime in and tell me that putting the distilled in a plastic cup or whatever leaches enough to make it safe please correct me, but i dont see how its possible.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

james67 said:


> Ed, you missed responding to this?


I know this is going to come across rough but I'm too tired to try and be less blunt, so no offense is intended. 

I didn't miss it, I thought it well addressed elsewhere see http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/70300-water-discussion.html 

The water contrary to popular myth, does not suck out the ions or anything else from the frog (or other amphibian), this actually goes against how osmotic gradients across a membrane work. The loss of ions is due to active transport and doesn't take into account that the frog can scavenge the ions back out of solution. 

Ed


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thanks. i didnt take it the wrong way and this is exactly why i welcomed a correction in my original post.

i just read the thread you linked but it only briefly touched on actually soaking a frog in a hypotonic solution like pure H2O. and even if the frog is able to scavenge ions back what time frame are we talking? i understand that the volume of solution probably has an impact on the time it takes for the animal to regain the ions but for some reason i would suspect that this action isnt instantaneous. would this mean that a frog being soaked for a few minutes like mentioned above would still leave the possibility for the frog to be removed from the solution well before its able to scavenge back a reasonable amount of the lost ions?

james


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

james67 said:


> thanks. i didnt take it the wrong way and this is exactly why i welcomed a correction in my original post.
> 
> i just read the thread you linked but it only briefly touched on actually soaking a frog in a hypotonic solution like pure H2O. and even if the frog is able to scavenge ions back what time frame are we talking? i understand that the volume of solution probably has an impact on the time it takes for the animal to regain the ions but for some reason i would suspect that this action isnt instantaneous. would this mean that a frog being soaked for a few minutes like mentioned above would still leave the possibility for the frog to be removed from the solution well before its able to scavenge back a reasonable amount of the lost ions?
> 
> james


If we think about it, the length of time is also short enough that the frog is going to have only lost a small amount of ions. It is highly unlikely the brief period of time is enough to cause sufficient ion loss. In addition, scavenging ions starts as soon as the frog begins to lose ions to the solution. If you go back to the thread where I broke down the science behind, it you'll notice that anything less than an isotonic solution is going to cause ion loss (in nature and captivity) pretty much at the same rate due to the extreme gradient between the fluids in the frog and the water. 

Ed


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Seems to me that along with the care sheets there should be some basic (and maybe some intermediate/advanced) science sheets. People can refer to them any time anything is discussed rather than sort through threads.


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