# Need an ID on a Tinctorius



## Weiss (Apr 18, 2021)

Hi, I got this frog a week ago marked as a Tinctorius Patricia, Along with some actual Patricias and Azureus. (Along with Dendrobates Auratus and Leucomelas) This One being quite a bit bigger, seems full grown and looks really strange, It’s missing the yellow patch on its legs that Patricia usually has and it’s not even got the same pattern as them. Due to the yellow head I don’t want to say it’s an Azureus but I don’t know what else it could be, anyone got a clue?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Weiss said:


> Hi, I got this frog a week ago marked as a Tinctorius Patricia, Along with some actual Patricias and Azureus. (Along with Dendrobates Auratus and Leucomelas)


Just to clarify, these are all frogs you received? And all the other morphs/species were labeled apparently correctly?

That's a lot of frogs to get all at once -- a lot of separate vivs, I trust.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

I'm fairly comfortable with the hypothesis that the frog in question is NOT a true Patricia, and that the appearance strongly suggests Azureus/Pat hybrid. Did all the frogs you received come from the same source? Is it possible they were all housed together?


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## Weiss (Apr 18, 2021)

These are all frogs I received, and yes separate vivs for each Morphs and Species. All other frogs we're labeled correctly, and they all came from the same wholesaler, from Germany. I don't suspect they we're all housed together, I could send pictures of the others if that would help.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Weiss said:


> wholesaler


I honestly have no idea what German (or more broadly, European) wholesalers are like. In the US, though, frogs coming through a wholesaler are not reasonably expected to be accurately described as to morph, nor are expected to even be pure examples of a morph (i.e. may well be locale or morph cross, or even hybrids). 

I'm assuming you're using the word 'wholesaler' in the American sense -- a company that buys small lots of reptiles and amphibians of all sorts from private or commercial breeders and then resells them, either to retailers or directly to end users.


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## Weiss (Apr 18, 2021)

I'm not quite sure tbh, I think they buy from small lots and resell them, but they might breed them themselves. I guess it might just be some kind of a hybrid.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

It looks like a green sip. Given it's from Germany it probably is but you can never know for sure. What it definitely is, is a cool frog that you can never breed.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

The lighter coloration on the forelimbs doesn't look like any Sip I've seen. Not saying it's impossible, but like you said, Jason...


JasonE said:


> What it definitely is, is a cool frog that you can never breed.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Dane said:


> The lighter coloration on the forelimbs doesn't look like any Sip I've seen. Not saying it's impossible, but like you said, Jason...


You are correct. I did not pay attention to those forearms. That probably is a hybrid. For the most part, European frogs shouldn't be trusted. There's been too many instances similar to this. Not to mention the number of illegal frogs that come from there.


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## Weiss (Apr 18, 2021)

I see, We’ll Yeah I won’t be breeding him ever, I’m keeping him in an enclosure alone, he’s doing really well so I’m at least happy with that part.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Weiss said:


> I see, We’ll Yeah I won’t be breeding him ever, I’m keeping him in an enclosure alone, he’s doing really well so I’m at least happy with that part.


Glad to hear it. It's not his/her fault someone else was irresponsible. Nice to know it has a home.


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## SimonL (Aug 29, 2020)

JasonE said:


> You are correct. I did not pay attention to those forearms. That probably is a hybrid. For the most part, European frogs shouldn't be trusted. There's been too many instances similar to this. Not to mention the number of illegal frogs that come from there.


That’s a very wide and sweeping statement to make. There are plenty of ‘European frogs’ from reputable breeders that can be trusted. Plus CITES has had a positive impact on the reduction of wildlife trafficking


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