# Eliminating pests from vivariums. Pesticide free method



## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

I updated the story about the CO2 method of removing pests from vivariums.

You may find the information useful.

FULL STORY HERE


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

where does one purchase dry ice?


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

Look in the yellow pages under welding supply, also see if you have Praxair in your area.



Grassypeak said:


> where does one purchase dry ice?


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## Blort (Feb 5, 2005)

Marty,

Nice article. When you looked at CO2 canisters, did you look at paintball tanks as an option?

Marcos


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

Blort said:


> Marty,
> 
> Nice article. When you looked at CO2 canisters, did you look at paintball tanks as an option?
> 
> Marcos


No, I figured it would be hard to slowly release the gas, I wanted to displace the air by completely overfilling the tank with CO2, plus I had access to dry ice. Plus dry ice is dirt cheap.


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## DaSlackMan (Feb 3, 2006)

That's a pretty 'cool' solution.

I have a co2 tank that is plumbed to one of my reeftanks running a calcium reactor. I think using dry ice is better for you can see the gas spreading through out the tank. Personally, I wouldn't know how close the oxygen is purged in the viv using the co2 gas for it is invisible.


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

That's exactly right.... I had the same logic... I figured that if I'll produce 10 times more CO2, I'll have a better chance of removing all the air

aka overkill 




DaSlackMan said:


> That's a pretty 'cool' solution.
> 
> I have a co2 tank that is plumbed to one of my reeftanks running a calcium reactor. I think using dry ice is better for you can see the gas spreading through out the tank. Personally, I wouldn't know how close the oxygen is purged in the viv using the co2 gas for it is invisible.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> Personally, I wouldn't know how close the oxygen is purged in the viv using the co2 gas for it is invisible.


There are a few different ways, some easier/cheaper than others. Here's what I came up with off the top of my head: 

A flow meter (the tall thing on the left): 








Measures volume of gas per unit time. They're used to regulate flow in welding. 

Also, you need oxygen to burn something, so light a match and hold it inside the top of your tank. If it goes out, you've got CO2. 

If you really wanted to be freaky, you could find a way to make PV=nRT a function of time and do a theoretical analysis then add ~10% for error. Bust still, the flame is the easiest and cheapest.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Do you think this would work to also kill any parasites that get into the soil through the frogs feces? Could you remove the frogs, treat them for their parasites in a quarantine container, use the CO2 method to kill the parasites in the tank, and then eventually place the frogs back in the tank?


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2006)

i would check at you local grocery strore for dry ice, because i know the ones around me sell it there.


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

Soil might be tricky as there surely would be pockets of air. In my case, I killed all the millipedes, but I still had earthworms that survived. I don't know if I killed the adult worms and their eggs hatched later or what, but the fact is that I still have earthworms in my tank...which is a good thing, because I didn't want to kill them anyways.

the flow meter might be really an overkill, considering that you can get 3 lbs fo dry ice for around $2. If you work at a university, you can get it for free from some chemistry lab



gary1218 said:


> Do you think this would work to also kill any parasites that get into the soil through the frogs feces? Could you remove the frogs, treat them for their parasites in a quarantine container, use the CO2 method to kill the parasites in the tank, and then eventually place the frogs back in the tank?


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## benmz (Feb 18, 2004)

What an amazing idea. So simple, yet so good. I wonder if it would work on scale and other plant pests? Fantastic article with wonderful picture support. 

-Ben


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I agree, a flow meter would be overkill, but it's an option even if not a favorable one. 

If you wanted to get into the soil, I'd find a way to start purging the tank from under the substrate. The diffusion properties of the soil will determine how long it'll take and if you'll have a problem with air pockets. Also, I could see more problems from the soil being wet because once the gas makes a clear path, it'll take that as opposed to working its way through the rest of the soil. 

Aren't many parasites anaerobic?


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

If you'll go through the trouble of installing an under substrate distribution mechanism, at that point might as well put the soil in the oven and nuke it at 600F for 30 min 



defaced said:


> I agree, a flow meter would be overkill, but it's an option even if not a favorable one.
> 
> If you wanted to get into the soil, I'd find a way to start purging the tank from under the substrate. The diffusion properties of the soil will determine how long it'll take and if you'll have a problem with air pockets. Also, I could see more problems from the soil being wet because once the gas makes a clear path, it'll take that as opposed to working its way through the rest of the soil.
> 
> Aren't many parasites anaerobic?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I'm thinking of an air tube that goes through the soil into the drainage layer/false bottom, nothing complicated.


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

yup, that could work. Not hard to do either



defaced said:


> I'm thinking of an air tube that goes through the soil into the drainage layer/false bottom, nothing complicated.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Odd things come to people at odd time. If you can't find dry ice here something you can do in your kitchen to make CO2. 

I'm going to say it's pretty safe to say every frogger has vinegar, and baking soda is dirt cheap. Combine them and you get water, CO2 and Sodium Acetate, a crystal. One mole of any gas occupies about 6 gallons of volume at standart temp and pressure. Using that you can estimate how much of each reactant you'll need to produce the needed amout of CO2. I haven't done this reaction in a long time, but it does bubble alot, so testing outside a tank would be a good idea. I might try it tonight to see if it's possible to control it and do the reaction outside the viv. 



Richard E. Barrans Jr. said:


> Link to Source[/url]]HOAc + NaHCO3 --> NaOAc + H2CO3
> 
> H2CO3 --> H2O + CO2(gas)
> 
> Here, "Ac" is an abreviation for acetate, CH3CO2


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

Just an update. After I rid my tank of millipedes and slugs few months later I intoduced some plants and infested my tank again, this time with tiny snails. At first I didn't care, but they multiplied like mad and soon I had snails everywhere ! I was soooooooo pissed. 

I just repeated the dry ice treatment and so far zero snails!

Here's what I did this time.

Filled the tank up completely with CO2, left it for a few hrs, then opened it up and topped up the CO2 (just in case - since some of it dissolved in water to make 'soda'). I left it overnight

Next day, topped up the CO2 again and left it for one more day.

Snails are gone...

I noticed something interesting: I had white mites in the tank and could see few on the glass - they probably started breeding after I removed my 8 leucs from that tank for the treatment. I was sure that they would be killed by the 2 days of CO2. Nope... mites survived.

When playing with some extra dry ice I had left over...I was putting it into a not so well sealed tank. I noticed that slugs will survive for some time in CO2. They slow down at first and really slime themselves, then after few hrs if you remove the CO2 they will recover fully. Trick to killing slugs is the tank has to be perfectly sealed so there are no leeks and top off the CO2.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2006)

Very good stuff Marty, I haven't had a chance to treat my mite infested orchid with this, haven't had a chance to get the CO2. Why do you think the mites survived? Did they find airpockets?


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

Khamul1of9 said:


> Very good stuff Marty, I haven't had a chance to treat my mite infested orchid with this, haven't had a chance to get the CO2. Why do you think the mites survived? Did they find airpockets?


I don't think so, not sure what happened. I saw them sitting on the glass not moving (while 'fumagating') then saw them crawling on the glass. Although I did see few of them dead...perhaps I should leave it longer :S


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