# Does anyone use firebrats?



## connorology (Oct 6, 2018)

Hello, 

I recently read about firebrats, and was interested as it isn't often I come across a feeder that I've literally never even heard of. A cursory search on the forums here suggests that a few folks have used them but they aren't very common as feeders, at least not in the US. 

I am always looking to diversify the prey items I offer to my animals- Is there a reason they aren't more commonly used as feeders I should be aware of?


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## evilfrog92 (Mar 8, 2012)

They require high temps but I haven't been able to find any offered


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

I think they are a European thing. Like they can buy locus like we buy crickets.


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

bulbophyllum said:


> I think they are a European thing. Like they can buy locus like we buy crickets


Here a small list of what we can buy in Europe in good sorted pet stores and online.




__





Levende insecten


We leveren onze klanten elke week weer levende insecten, die we van maandag tm Vrijdag versturen.Wij Krijgen van Maandag tm Vrijdag verse voedseldieren van onze kwekerijen geleverd.Let op vrijdag op tijd bestellen om teleurstellingen te voorkomen ivm met beperkte voorraad



www.happy-reptiles.eu


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

They require constant very high temperatures and a new culture can take quite a few months to become productive much like the larger isopods. The advantage of this species as a feeder is that they require almost no maintenance other than heat, you can set up a culture and more or less forget about it for long periods of time.
People here in europe usually keep them in large polystyrene boxes with a heatmat or cermaic heat emitter, there's unlikely to be anywhere warm enough in your house to get them reproducing at an optimal rate. They like it dark and about 35c or even slightly higher. Females produce thousands of eggs in their lifetime so once a culture is established they can be very productive.
These are one of the staples for dwarf geckos here in europe and very easy to culture and harvest as long as your provide sufficient heat.


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## mikemakesapps (Mar 11, 2019)

It was interesting looking through that list of feeders, a lot more variety than I'm used to seeing here in the states.
I'm also curious about the google translation.... most of them seemed accurate until I got to "piss beds"


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

There are some online vendors in the US that offer a similar variety, but it would be very rare to find any brick and mortar shop that does.


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

mikemakesapps said:


> It was interesting looking through that list of feeders, a lot more variety than I'm used to seeing here in the states.
> I'm also curious about the google translation.... most of them seemed accurate until I got to "piss beds"


Woodlice, (Isopods) also called cellar moths, are the only crustaceans that spend their entire lives on land.
The name woodlouse is said to have originated in earlier times when it was believed that children's bedwetting could be remedied by grinding dried woodlice and sprinkling it in bed


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## DanConnor (Apr 12, 2009)

I raised firebrats 15 or so years ago- They were kind of fun to raise. I think I had them in a critter-keeper type thing with a bunch of layers of cardboard and a heat pad underneath. Not stinky or anything- they took a while to get started.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Robru said:


> Woodlice, (Isopods) also called cellar moths, are the only crustaceans that spend their entire lives on land.


what about amphipods?


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

Louis said:


> what about amphipods?











Amphipoda - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Robru said:


> Amphipoda - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The simplest remedy for the dispute may be to point out that this is just isn't true:



Robru said:


> Woodlice, (Isopods) also called cellar moths, are the only crustaceans that spend their entire lives on land.


Half of isopod species are aquatic. If by 'woodlice' a person means 'the "terrestrial" isopods' (i.e. Oniscidea) then the claim also false.


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> The simplest remedy for the dispute may be to point out that this is just isn't true:
> Half of isopod species are aquatic. If by 'woodlice' a person means 'the "terrestrial" isopods' (i.e. Oniscidea) then the claim also false.


*Correction: *

Dutch explanation in Wikipedia: Woodlice (Isopoda) are one of the few orders of crustaceans of which species occur on land. They are a very diverse group, with most species living in the sea, but some species have adapted to land.
Woodlice originally occur in salt water, but they also occur in fresh water. A small group, the land woodlice (Oniscidea), has left the sea, but kept their gills. With the help of a brood pouch, they have also developed a way that makes them no longer dependent on pools or deeper water for the early life stages of the young.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

I had never heard of these either. I had to look them up. No thanks. They're almost as creepy as silverfish. I'll stick to flies.


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## connorology (Oct 6, 2018)

Well if I can get my hands on some I'll give it a shot. In recent Sacramento summers our temps have been "circle of hell" level miserable, so I don't anticipate trouble reaching the temps required to raise them. I could literally set them in my shed from June - November probably (We have two seasons now: Summer and Winter. Maybe three if you include apocalyptic wildfires).


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## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

connorology said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently read about firebrats, and was interested as it isn't often I come across a feeder that I've literally never even heard of. A cursory search on the forums here suggests that a few folks have used them but they aren't very common as feeders, at least not in the US.
> 
> I am always looking to diversify the prey items I offer to my animals- Is there a reason they aren't more commonly used as feeders I should be aware of?


I keep firebrats and use them as food for my frogs on a regular basis. The main thing is that they need high temperatures to breed and thrive and take a relatively long time to get going. But once they do, they are amongst the most low-maintenance feeders possible. All I have to do is add more food every month or so and clean their bin once every one to two years. I harvest firebrats from this culture every one to two weeks without even making a noticeable dent in their population.

One of the main benefits of firebrats in my opinion is that they are one of the few feeders that can get a positive calcium phosphorous ratio if fed properly. Adding carotenoids into their food also clearly translates into their tissues becoming more red/orange so gutloading is definitely a thing for firebrats. The food just needs to be dry, otherwise they will leave it alone.

Haven't come across issues with them for frogs, I feed it to all my smaller species (Afrixalus, Hyperolius, Dendrobates and Mantella) and they all eat it wih gusto. Only the Theloderma don't look at them as they are too small for them, they did eat them whilst growing up though.


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## connorology (Oct 6, 2018)

Johanovich said:


> The main thing is that they need high temperatures to breed and thrive and take a relatively long time to get going. But once they do, they are amongst the most low-maintenance feeders possible. All I have to do is add more food every month or so and clean their bin once every one to two years. I harvest firebrats from this culture every one to two weeks without even making a noticeable dent in their population.


How long does it take to get a colony going in your experience ?


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## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

connorology said:


> How long does it take to get a colony going in your experience ?


Depends on the starting portion and temperature. High temperatures and enough food means they can mature faster (in 2 months ideally). So the idea is to have the starting adults reproduce and allow the first generation to reach adulthood and start reproducing as well. Firebrats can live several years and lay hundreds or even thousands of eggs individually, but they do not lay a lot of eggs at once. Rather they lay a few eggs every few days. So if your first generation reaches adulthood and starts reproducing there will still be a lot of youngsters in the bin of different ages. When you harvest you'll get a mix of ages, but there will always be adults left to keep reproducing.

For me it took a good 4 months to properly take off from a modest starting portion. A starting portion of 100 adults means they will together already have laid a few thousand eggs by then and the amount of adults will have multiplied a few times. I keep two egg carton on top of each other and only harvest from the top one so a large population always remains untouched up and underneath the second carton.


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

I breed these regularly, and as others have said they're fairly hassle-free. I'm in the US, and they were definitely harder to find.


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