# Great stuff VS clay, best background method!!!



## Tex22seg (Dec 3, 2010)

Hey guys/girls I am planning on starting my second viv and am wondering what type of back ground to to. I have heard manny things about the clay background but have never done one. The one thing that I am worried about is how long do the clay backgrounds last and what keeps them from drying out inside. Also do you need to run an airline tube attached to a pump with holes poked thru it in the background to keep it moist or will the 80+ humidity do. Now I have already done a great stuff background on my first viv and really want to know more about the clay but if Any one has done both it would be great to have an opinion of witch is better. 
Thanks Taylor


----------



## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

I have done both backgrounds. Actually my 1st was GS then i tore it down and did it with clay. I love it now you can mold it and shape it any time you want to and plants love it. Before my plants were dieing and just not doing very well on the GS now they are doing great. Ill never do great stuff again. 
As long as you mist regularly you wont have any problems specially if your viv is well sealed. Mine dries out some and cracks near the top just because its not sealed well. but cracks are easily fixable.

I would also recommend using Dr Elsey's BLUE bag of litter. It works great!!


----------



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I have done both clay background and gs background. IMO the gs background is better. To me it is much less messy than the clay, and easier. That is just my opinion. I find lots of people like the clay better... Idk I just like gs/silicone.


----------



## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

I have a GS tank (I didnt make it, bought it that way) and I did a 55g in clay. I love it. Clay is moldable at any time. As far as keeping it moist... just spray it well when you spray. I havent had any issues.


----------



## Tex22seg (Dec 3, 2010)

Alright that's cool I still would like to know how long clay lasts though. 
Otherwise thanks for all the advice


----------



## RentaPig311 (Jul 6, 2009)

Anyone used clay as a waterfall or would that keep it to wet?


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

I have tried both, and honestly, i prefer the GS method...Clay is just so messy, but i like that it takes me only an hour to setup a viv with clay.


----------



## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

to wet, it would erode away with constant water flow. I just did a practice clay in a 10g, before that it was all gs and silicone. So far it is great, broms are rooting to it quick and it looks like the java moss i put in a spot is already starting to establish. it has only been like two weeks or so since i put it in there so i like that. I also have my concerns about longevity, but it seems like if you don't keep it too wet or too dry it will last. Daily misting should be good, i just make sure i get all the edges so they dont dry and contract. I would think that would be the first place it would get messed up, at the top edge near the light especially? I am in the process of another 20g and i think i will be using clay again.


----------



## Tex22seg (Dec 3, 2010)

Alright so I think the only problem with clay is you have to keep it moist? If that is so then I am defiantly going to get a clay background. Thanks for all the advice


----------



## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

I like both methods, but they each have their own seperate pros/cons list.

*GS *- 
*PROS*: Can support heavy objects, will not degrade, limitless shape possibilities, waterproof, lightweight, very efficent method for large vivs.
- *CONS*: No benefit to frogs, needs to be coated, takes 24 hours to dry between coats, it looks terrible if uncovered against glass, its also quite expensive.

*CLAY 
*- *PROS*: No 2 week curring time, beneficial to frogs and microfauna, takes 10 minutes to create a background, can be reshaped, looks great against glass, and its cheap.
- *CONS*: Degrades quickly if natural substrates are added, cannot support heavy objects by itself, very tempermental to humidity changes and seperate parts of the tank, very low success rate when used with a water features, extremely heavy, looks quite dull without added substrates, and it takes forever to consistently mix enough for a large viv.


----------



## Ross (Feb 10, 2008)

Here are some helpful threads on clay backgrounds:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...-wood-background-before-adding-clay-else.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/59903-clay-fail.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/54887-i-love-clay.html

Pay special attention to Ed's posts; the man is a sage.

Clay backgrounds should hold up for years; they don't decompose like treefern panels and if portions eventually fall off, you can patch them up with more clay. At first, the background must be kept within a certain range of moisture while a biofilm stabilizes the clay. Too dry and it will shrink and crack; too soggy and it will fall off. Mosses and the roots of epiphytes planted on the background will eventually hold the clay together.


----------



## Tex22seg (Dec 3, 2010)

Grimm when you say degrades quickly does that mean that it falls apart quickly or what? Thanks for the advice I am going to do a 20 tall with a waterfall and river but I am going to make both of thoes out of styraphome and grout. So the background will only have to deal with the constant humidity and spraying of a dart frog viv. All advise Is welcome, for me it seams when I make these borderline decishions a few months down the road I look back and wish that I had done the other.


----------



## Tex22seg (Dec 3, 2010)

Man Ross that was some killer advice you gave me thanks. I think that I need to have a chat with the "sage"


----------



## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

I use both methods in my builds. I often use clay to cover GS on backgrounds. It cuts down on total weight, and allows you to create overhangs and ledges that you cannot do with clay alone. Also the clay on GS looks better than silicone with organics stuck in it.


----------



## bcfrog (Jun 3, 2010)

Has anyone used the clay technique for treefrogs, just curious I ve been thinking of redoing one of my Red Eye Exo Terra's.

BC


----------



## LemurLad (Jan 22, 2011)

In my 40gal paludarium, I decorated the divider between the water and land portions with GS and thin pieces of rock. It looks great, but the places where it shows really stand out. In my 30gal Mario themed tank, I used GS to fill space for me to shape clay around and I really do like this method. I used straight art clay bought as a block because I figured the usual additives would remove some of the structural integrity of the clay.


----------



## bcfrog (Jun 3, 2010)

How do the plants root into art clay, I assume you mean ceramic clay like from Ardvaark Ceramic Supply... Interesting idea but doesn't ceramic clay dry out fairly easy.

BC


----------



## LemurLad (Jan 22, 2011)

It stays fairly moist as long as its covered and misted every day.  Some of the creeping plants are able to attach to concrete, so I doubt they'd have trouble with clay, even if it did dry out. They'd probably even help hold it together.


----------



## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

They're both too much of a pain, Ecoweb ftw


----------



## Bfrog (May 5, 2010)

I've always like GS best but I like the look of the clay so I just built a rock wall in a new viv using carved GS as the foundation and silicone to secure the clay to the GS... It feels solid and it's pretty dry at the moment... fingers crossed.








first time trying clay... planning to try it this way on a vertical tank for my RETF...


----------



## Tex22seg (Dec 3, 2010)

Well i think that i am going to go with the clay method thanks for all of the advise. Now the next hurtle is making the best posible clay background ever. I want it to be long lasting and able to withstand lots of water although it will not be under constant flow. So lets see all of your grreat clay backgrounds and mixtures.


----------



## miko12 (Mar 25, 2011)

What kind of clay is used and where can I get it?


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Tex22seg said:


> Well i think that i am going to go with the clay method thanks for all of the advise. Now the next hurtle is making the best posible clay background ever. I want it to be long lasting and able to withstand lots of water although it will not be under constant flow. So lets see all of your great clay backgrounds and mixtures.


70 percent clay, 30 percent additives. Milled sphagnum moss, ground cypress mulch and calcisand are three I mixed in there. I would stay away from cocofiber and peat moss b/c they will degrade quickly. As a mainstay for the mix, they are probably not a good idea, even though they'd be OK in small amounts.

Mist very sparingly until plant roots get well established in the background, or wait at least a few months before full misting unless you notice cracking, then apply spot treatments with water and a brush, using your finger to smooth them out. The background cracking has more to do with how you prepare the clay and background, whether or not you put wood in there (which draws out water), and how much ventilation/misting you provide. It's better to err on the dry than the wet side. 

In summary, I think 'clay failure' has a lot to do with the following:

~lack of organic material mixed in, or poor choices of such material
~daily overall misting without plants on the background, along with clay that is oversaturated to begin with. The consistency should be a little more stiff than Playdoh. 
~daily overall misting before plants and microbial base are established, which causes it to fall off of the background.


----------

