# False Bottom vs Hydroballs



## Stryker (Nov 7, 2016)

I am trying to wrap my head around the idea of a false bottom vs a Hydroball bottom. I am completely new to the hobby and with this being said I have read the threads against newbies building waterfalls. I am good with my hands so this will not be a problem. What bottom works best for waterfalls?

My understanding is with a false bottom the entire vivarium becomes a reservoir with the water level set just below the egg crate as not to mix with the substrate. I would imagine that the false bottom also makes the vivarium much lighter? I also imagine that springtails and isopods will reside in the substrate layer without any issues with a false bottom.

So those are things that I am assuming, please if I mentioned anything inaccurately please correct my assumptions. I would also like to hear the pros and cons from you guys that have been doing this forever. I have read some of the articles and stickies but none really seem to answer my questions.

Thank you.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Stryker said:


> I am trying to wrap my head around the idea of a false bottom vs a Hydroball bottom. I am completely new to the hobby and with this being said I have read the threads against newbies building waterfalls. I am good with my hands so this will not be a problem. What bottom works best for waterfalls?


Being capable with your hands won't alleviate all the other difficulties associated with water features long-term. I do not recommend this for a novice.


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## wikiwakawakawee (Jan 24, 2013)

If you do end up making a waterfall, I would recommend use a tank/bucket outside of the vivarium to filter the water. I set up a waterfall in my 29G viv (I'm not experienced at all, this was only my 2nd build) I used a false bottom, but with no filter, just a pump, the water got dirty quick, and algae started growing rapidly as well. 

Doing water changes every 3 days kept the water somewhat clear, and kept algae build up down, but I left to join the Military and so the vivarium stayed with my parents. Sure enough the water got dirtier and dirtier and the algae covered the entire waterfall in a nasty green slime, so they turned off the pump and took out the water altogether. 

Right now I'm planning to use a tank with a filter outside of the vivarium so that its easier to access and change the water now that i'm back for the holidays.

Just giving you my experience with the water feature I built so that you can keep those problems in mind and hopefully work around them if you do end up building your own


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

wikiwakawakawee said:


> I used a false bottom, but with no filter, just a pump, the water got dirty quick,


This isn't a factor of the false bottom but a result of the materials that go into the substrate of the enclosures. The cloudiness of the water is a result of humic acids likes tannins leaching into the water from the substrate. It is a fact of life of these sorts of enclosures unless you utilize some non-traditional substrates. 

some comments 

Ed


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## wikiwakawakawee (Jan 24, 2013)

Ed said:


> This isn't a factor of the false bottom but a result of the materials that go into the substrate of the enclosures. The cloudiness of the water is a result of humic acids likes tannins leaching into the water from the substrate. It is a fact of life of these sorts of enclosures unless you utilize some non-traditional substrates.
> 
> some comments
> 
> Ed


Of course, I was just stating that I went with a false bottom because it was easier for me in this case instead of hydroballs

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


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## Phyllobates (Dec 12, 2008)

Both setups work well. I prefer the hydroball setup as I feel it gives me better substrate fauna and a better wicking of moisture from the sub layer.

Tanks that have two inches of water on the bottom will be heavier than tanks with 2 inches of hydroballs plus water. Hydroballs are less dense. Although the weight difference might be negligible once the hydroballs are saturated.

Agree with Dane above re: water feature. If you like the idea of a paludarium or water feature I would do some experimenting first. If you just want to get a tank setup so you can get some dart frogs going, skip it.

my two cents

Chris


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## ryanuuy (Sep 11, 2016)

I've used both and both work quite well for what you're looking for it to do. The false bottom is lighter though.


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## ice19d (Jan 17, 2017)

i like the false bottom just because its lighter and when you need to drain the water you dont have alot of stuff in the way


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

False bottom is lighter and is much easier to lock the substrate away from the drainage layer via a bead of silicone around the edge. When I have used Hydroton in the past, the fiberglass screen that I use to divide the two layer just sort of floats there and the substrate ends up getting down into the drainage layer.

Mark


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## dmb5245 (Feb 7, 2014)

Encyclia said:


> False bottom is lighter and is much easier to lock the substrate away from the drainage layer via a bead of silicone around the edge.


I did the same but with black expanding foam. Keeps the substrate from falling down into the drainage around the edges.


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## OrangeD (Oct 8, 2015)

I use both a false and hydroballs. I think hydroballs do a better job allowing the water to wick upward.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

OrangeD said:


> I use both a false and hydroballs. I think hydroballs do a better job allowing the water to wick upward.


You're right, but can I ask why you want this to happen? In many cases it's hard enough to keep your substrate well-drained without inviting wicking. Can you describe how your tanks work that you are wanting wicking to occur? Just looking to learn something new 

Mark


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## OrangeD (Oct 8, 2015)

I keep my vivs a little on the dry side. A reasonably thick layer of hydroballs maintains soil moisture without soil saturation. I try to maintain a thin water layer on the first bottom layer of balls. The humid air gaps between the balls promotes aerobic bacteria which can be beneficial.

The false bottoms also keep the soil from water saturation, but the hydroballs provide more surface area for water movement. 

With either a false bottom or hydroballs you do not want the soil to become saturated which leads to anaerobic conditions which creates the foul smell.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

OrangeD said:


> I keep my vivs a little on the dry side. A reasonably thick layer of hydroballs maintains soil moisture without soil saturation. I try to maintain a thin water layer on the first bottom layer of balls. The humid air gaps between the balls promotes aerobic bacteria which can be beneficial.
> 
> The false bottoms also keep the soil from water saturation, but the hydroballs provide more surface area for water movement.
> 
> With either a false bottom or hydroballs you do not want the soil to become saturated which leads to anaerobic conditions which creates the foul smell.


Ok, that makes more sense. I still have my doubts about the benefits increasing surface area for additional growth of aerobic bacteria in the false bottom. I suspect this is hold-over thinking from the aquarium world, but I could be wrong. Regardless, as long as people are paying attention to the last sentence you wrote, they will be good on the drainage layer/substrate front. It's not just a foul smell if that happens, it can mean replacement of substrate and maybe more, depending on how long it is allowed to go on.

Mark


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## OrangeD (Oct 8, 2015)

Yes I agree, soil saturation over time can be a big mess. The nitrification process also occurs in soil creating nitrates which are absorbed by the plants. The same process more or less occurs in the aquarium as it does in the soil.

Earlier in the thread there was interest in water feature. I would recommend using a separate reservoir and filter for the water feature rather than use the false bottom as the reservoir. As the water goes through the soil it will leach nutrients into the false bottom which will allow algae to grown which will be pumped through your water feature.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

OrangeD said:


> Yes I agree, soil saturation over time can be a big mess. The nitrification process also occurs in soil creating nitrates which are absorbed by the plants. The same process more or less occurs in the aquarium as it does in the soil.


Agreed, but the products of nitrification (ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) are sequestered in the substrate or carried down to drainage layer via runoff and infiltration. Once they are in the drainage layer (or lower layers of substrate), they are relatively locked away from the frogs unless you provide a feedback loop that brings the water back up from the drainage layer as you were proposing above. This is why I was asking why you were trying to do this. If you let the nitrogen products drift down into the areas where the frogs aren't likely to interact with them, they can be removed later by roots (which will also take up ammonia and nitrite directly, by the way) or by removal of water through siphoning or draining through a bulkhead. That's why I am suspect of the need to cultivate more aerobic bacteria than would already be present in the substrate and, to a lesser extent, the surfaces in the drainage layer. I am sure they would do their thing, I am just not convinced that their thing is needed in a viv. The frogs don't have to interact with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate the way fish would have to pass those products across their gills because there is no water column to dissolve them into. In a fish tank, sequestration doesn't really occur as much, so you need to worry about how to get the nitrogen out of the tank eventually. That's my thinking, anyway. Let me know if you have different ideas.

Mark


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## wolfeingtons (Nov 2, 2012)

I have done both before as well and prefer the hydroballs. I got a ton for super cheap from IKEA. With the egg crate you end up cutting more and its a pain to try and hide it from view. The hydroballs are not exactly eye pleasing but they blend in more down in the substrate and for me its easier to make water pools out of if you want to go that way. 

Water features are not hard if you have some plumbing experience with a salt water tank or something similar. Just do a lot of research and plan it out well.
Goodluck


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