# 24x18x36 exoterra build log



## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok just a fair warning this is still in the planning stages so it may be a while till you guys see some progress. I figured this would be a good time to showcase some awesome pieces of driftwood i got from rod at thedriftwoodstore.com. It wound up being around the same cost shipped to my house as pieces half the size at a local pet shop. Needless to say they are 10x cooler looking too, I suggest you check him out. 
Anyway this will be for my single green anole and may get one or two more once it is finished. I plan on using a combo of epiweb and greatstuff for the background and will have a false bottom. It will also have a small pond and water feature. I also may try to incorporate some computer fans hidden in the background for air circulation but i still have alot of stuff to figure out first. Keep lookin out for updates. 
-sean

P.s. sorry for the lighting in the pics, it was dark out and the tank is currently in the garage. Haha i had to use car headlights cause the fluorescents in my garage are out.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

*Re: 24x18x36 exoterra build log (pic-heavy, post as i go)*

ok so i did alittle mock up of how my driftwood n such is going to be mounted on to my background. 








This tank will have a background on 2 sides and will be viewable from the other two. the right side will be completely covered in greatstuff and peat, along with some pots for planting and the pieces of wood that you see. 








The back of the tank will be made of great stuff and include planting pots and a water feature in the middle cascading off of the center piece of wood you see here.








The left side of the tank will be completely viewable exept for the piece of wood you see taped on.
















i also started to create a fake tree and root structure made out of epiweb in the right corner of the tank. I still need to shape it more and may rub alittle clay mixed with peat over it to make it alittle less fiberous and more realistic. I plan on trying to make a home made epiweb IIS irrigation system for the epiweb tree by using a small pump on a timer connected to a piece of pvc with holes on it atop the tree. 
















in addition i started to create a false bottom and will make the transition from land to water with some black river rocks and some substrate. 
My filter/pumps will be in the center of the pond hidden by a rock compartment i will make. 








i am unsure if this will look as good as hiding them under the false bottom but this way if when i need to service the mechanics they are right there and can be easily removed if they need to be replaced. i had a trap door in my false bottom in my last viv but it was very annoying when it came time to clean the filter and i would have to rip up plants/disturb frogs.

I think there is a few more pictures here, FTS | Flickr - Photo Sharing! .

Anyway let me know if you see any problems i could run into, if you see any because i plan on taking this build slow.

once again you can count on me for crappy quality pictures. i fixed the light my garage but both my 14mp camera and my phone were dead so i had to use my gopro.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

not sure why the pictures arent working could anyone help me out? In the mean time you can see all of them if you click the link at the bottom.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

looks very promising!!!! cant wait to see it planted!!!


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Yea me too, its going to be a while though hah. i am very anxious to see how my epiweb system will come out and how well moss and other epiphytes will grow. I am worried that some of the areas of the epiweb that dont get alot of light (like the parts under branches) wont grow moss that well. I guess i can try lower light plants like maybe some different orchids or something.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

if u have any leftover epiweb moss mix, u know who to send it to


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

goof901 said:


> if u have any leftover epiweb moss mix, u know who to send it to


Haha yea i got you, it looks as though i may at this point. I ordered alot more then i thought but i may try to experiment growing some moss on the gs background where it stays moist from the water feature. I will let you know if i have extra though.

I also bought what were called butteryfly orchid seeds on ebay for a few dollars. Does anyone know if i just threw some of these on the epiweb if it may grow? I remember reading about how you need to grow orchid from seeds a special way but im not sure.

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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

orchid seeds need mycorrhizal fungi to germinate


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

do you know how hard that process is going to be? Im guessing i would have to get them growing before i can transplant them onto the epiweb correct?

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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

shibbyplustax said:


> Haha yea i got you, it looks as though i may at this point. I ordered alot more then i thought but i may try to experiment growing some moss on the gs background where it stays moist from the water feature. I will let you know if i have extra though.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk


thanks! haha i didn't think u'd have any left over


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Got alittle progress done today, but there is still alot of work to do. I finished structuring my false bottom and added some greatstuff in some key areas for extra strength and to also make the false bottom sit flat, as it is sloping down and egg crate is hard to make nice angles with. I also put a layer of dryloc on my "tree". It will be covered with epiweb so i am not going to need to paint any details on it. I also trimmed some of the epiweb to make the tree look alittle more realistic. After trimming the roots, i wanted to give them some curves but it wasnt that simple. I had to bunch up the roots and wrap a rubber band around it and place it in front of a space heater for a while. It still needs alittle work but i think the tree is coming out pretty well so far. Thats is about all i could do today until everything dries and i get some of the tubing i need for the water features. 

On a side note I noticed alot more people are using GE silicone II and i am wondering if it is okay to do so. I see alot of people saying they had no trouble with it but others say it may be toxic. I am curious because i cant seem to find the silicone I in brown anywhere (i dunno if they even make it) and feel it will look alot better if you miss any spots with peat or after some peat falls off. Anyone have any suggestions on a brown glue i can use to cover my background in peat? Will the mold prohibiter(or whatever is different from the silicon I) in ge silicone II prevent moss from growing on my background? 

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

So after I got a couple of things prepped and some more materials, i decided to start the right side of my tank. I only added the epiweb tree trunk, some pots, driftwood and sprayfoamed it so far but i think it looks good. Lets hope it stays that way and doesnt expand more than i expect. I also secured one of the epiweb branches and also added a few rocks jutting out of the spray foam. I started making a little rock water feature but that is not done yet. I will probably get some more work done tomorrow after this cures. Here is a picture from the side and a birds eye view picture

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

After finishing spraying the background on the back pane of glass i added a layer of dryloc to all the greatstuff. Here is a picture of the background so far, from the front and a birds eye view. I will still be painting everything brown and adding a mixture of silicone and ground up peat moss in all the places that are gray.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

frogparty said:


> orchid seeds need mycorrhizal fungi to germinate


Does anyone know if i can use this to try and grow orchid seeds in my vivarium? Here is the link: http://mobile.buy.com/ibuy/Product.aspx?sku=217542928&sellerid=30635102 . Even if it wont work that well, i just wanna make sure it is viv safe. I have a bunch or orchid seeds i got for cheap and even if only a few grow i feel like it would be worth a try. Anyone know if this can be done and if its safe for animals? 

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Or more specifically this product http://www.soilmoist.com/products/mycorrhizal.php . I am talking about the transplant formula without the fertilizer. I found this product for about 3 dollars on ebay. Btw this will be used well before any inhabitants are introduced. I would like to try and grow orchids from seeds and i will allow the tank to grow in for 3-4 months before introducing any animals. 

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok cool, i guess no input on that one. Ill give it a try anyway its only a few bucks.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

ok so im pretty much done with the hardscape except for some touching up and cleaning, but i have a question. My exoterra was on its back pane of glass and as i was applying slicone and pushing in some peat, i bumped into the door and one of the little notches (in second to last pic) to hold the door on snapped. The glass then fell from atop a table and on to the cement floor but some how did not break. so really i just need to repair or replace the little notch on one of the doors and its back to new. I see that the black piece that the notch is part of looks like it will come off fairly easy so i can probably replace it if i can find the part. Any one know i could fix the door or where i can find the top piece of trim for the door? Think exoterra would replace it as i barely hit it?

as i said the hardscape is pretty much done except for touching up, and next comes the hardest part, the water feature test. I will have a waterfall in the back middle of the background as pictured and a small drip feature on a timer to water my epiweb "tree". I have not tested either of them at all but i am hoping that by adjusting the pumps flow and using some moss i can tweek the water to go over points of interest and prevent wicking where i would not like it. i will also have a small submersable filter in the water portion to help keep water clear and stable. 

If the water features work the way i want them to, i will pretty much be done with the perminant stuff that will be done to the tank. then after that i will be creating my rock slope to the water, covering up the top and sides of my false bottom with gravel to hide it, cover any visable greatstuff with contact paper, camouflaging wires and tubing to look like vines and then comes the planting, moss spore spreading and waiting for it to fill in. All in all there is 12 pots for planting in this viv so i will be able to have a nice assortment of plants. should be able to finish up in the next week or so and then we plant and wait.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

woops put the wrong pic in the first one, thats my azureus haha. here is a (crappy) pic of the broken notch.


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## AlexD (Sep 19, 2007)

Something like this may be helpful to you. All seed-grown orchids in cultivation that I'm aware of are produced in a manner like this. You don't just "plant" them, you need to flask them for a couple years. Just a warning, depending on what type of orchids you got, it will take up to about 5-8 years before you can expect them to flower if you're growing them from seeds. I imagine the products you were looking at above are safe for vivs, but I doubt they will be on any benefit whatsoever to orchid seeds.

Home Orchid Flasking


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

thanks for the link, i will read through that later today. after doing some more research after asking that question i realized it would be pretty difficult to try and grow orchids from seeds in my vivarium, so i decided i would experiment with this just to learn to grow em, and if it one day they can be tranferred into the viv, i will. For now any orchids i want for my viv i will just end up buying once i get the hang of taking care of them becuase i am very new to orchids. I just got my first few though and havent killed them yet so hopefully it will continue to go well. thanks again.


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## AlexD (Sep 19, 2007)

No problem. Flasking orchids is a great skill to have-flasks are always in high demand, especially for rare or interesting species or crosses. So any experience you can get, I'd say go for it. Who knows, maybe one day you can make a profit on it. Even if you don't, you'll have fun and can have all the orchids you want, on the cheap.

I should also mention, this link isn't particularly well written, but it offers you some idea about how to grow orchids from seeds.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Hey, your Exo is looking good and coming along well. I built mine (same size and dimensions) just about 2 months ago. Keep up the pics and updates!


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks pdfcrazy, how are those broms i sent you doing?

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Good news, it passed the water test for the most part. I think i can get the waterfall alittle more under control with some moss or something to wick it away from place, but worst case only one of my planting pots is getting saturated from it. Its actually quite bad so anyone know a good plant that wouldnt mind getting constantly dripped on? The pot has excellent drainage and could just fill it up with stuff that drains well. I was thinking of pothos? Any better ideas? 

The epiweb watering system is working alright but it seems to drip right through the epiweb and not get to some parts but i am thinking when i get some moss on there it will wick to the other parts better.

I will post a video soon once i get it on the computer.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

here is the video i took while testing the water features. it still needs some fine tuning but just so you get the idea.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok so i got the tank up in my room and set up the new light fixture i have and its looking pretty good. It is set up side by side with my 36x18x36 exo and as a whole it looks awesome. I am not satisfied with my old exo tho so i will be redoing that in a few months. I will get a pic of the two when its dark out and there is no glare on the glass. 

I spread the moss mix over the epiweb and sorry goof i didnt have any left. I actually need to make some more of my own cause i wasnt able to cover the entire epiweb tree. I ended up having a larger water area then i expected so i think i may try and put some sort of live bearing fish and see what happens. As for now i got the 1st round of planting done with some extra plants i had and now need to order some more. After that all there is to do is wait for the moss to grow and the plants to grow in. I am waiting until the epiweb is completly covered with moss before introducing inhabitants so there is less risk of them getting stuck on it. There are still 6 pots with no plants so this tank will look alot more full after the 2nd round of planting. 

I will post better quality pics and perhaps a small video clip when i get the chance to do so. Let me know what you guys think. 

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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Anoles don't really need all that water. I know my anoles actually hated the water feature I had in their viv.
There is a condition they will develop if there is too much moisture...some kind of skin issue. I can't remember the name of it thought, I think it might have been Ed that mentioned it once before....idk.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Anoles don't really need all that water. I know my anoles actually hated the water feature I had in their viv.
> There is a condition they will develop if there is too much moisture...some kind of skin issue. I can't remember the name of it thought, I think it might have been Ed that mentioned it once before....idk.


The canopy of this enclosure is completely dry and there is no glass on top, all screen. I designed the waterfall so that only about 20 inches of the enclosure is beneath it. After doing a few days of testing i am pretty confident that the top 12 inches of the enclosure will stay pretty much 100% dry. When designing this i kept in mind that the anoles will spend most of their time at the top of the enclosure ( which they have been in any enclosure i have made for them) and made plenty of basking spots on both the hotter and colder side that will stay completely dry. I know they will not be able utilize most of the floor space but i.m.e. i have never seen my anoles on the floor of any of my terrariums. 

The purpose for all that water was for housing fish in there too, knowing that the anoles would not use the floor space.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Here are some pictures of the area i was speaking of. The only reason they look alittle wet in the pictures is that i have been heavily misting to get some of that moss to take hold. I will also have vines running back and forth for even more basking spots.
In addition i have not set up my ceramic heater or any mechanical ventilation yet so that will dry things up a bit too.

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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

shibbyplustax said:


> The canopy of this enclosure is completely dry and there is no glass on top, all screen. I designed the waterfall so that only about 20 inches of the enclosure is beneath it. After doing a few days of testing i am pretty confident that the top 12 inches of the enclosure will stay pretty much 100% dry. When designing this i kept in mind that the anoles will spend most of their time at the top of the enclosure ( which they have been in any enclosure i have made for them) and made plenty of basking spots on both the hotter and colder side that will stay completely dry. I know they will not be able utilize most of the floor space but i.m.e. i have never seen my anoles on the floor of any of my terrariums.
> 
> The purpose for all that water was for housing fish in there too, knowing that the anoles would not use the floor space.
> 
> Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2


I think it has to do with the overall humidity in the viv....with a sceen top it should be ok.
I was just mentioning it. I am not completely sure of all the details.

here is the viv I had for my anoles and the anoles themselves.





That water are might not be big enough for fish. I took a 10g tank and split it in half. Half land half water and it had a good amount of water more that it looks like you have there and I tried guppies and they died and I even tried a single betta and it died as well.
I hope you have better luck tho.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

I believe that the bottom of the tank is able to hold alittle over 7 gallons. Some of that space is being taken up by rock/sand but i do have a false bottom to maximize water volume. Ofcoarse only half of that is actual usable swimming space. I probably will not be able to have any live bearers in there but i think a betta or some shrimp will do fine once the water parameters stabilize.

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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

Little video update on the tank.








Everything is almost finished, moss drip wall "tree" still needs to grow in alittle more and i am going to add a jungle background in some spots where the bare glass is exposed on the back and some other odds and ends. its is currently home to a trio of black bar endlers, some ghost shrimp, some cherry shrimp, a green anole and two house geckos that i saved from being food. I had fecal tests done on the geckos and qt'ed them for a month and a half then had another fecal test done to make sure, before i introduced them. So far any interaction between the two species has been fine, but i will keep monitoring.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

that looks way too humid for an anole setup. You have a pond, 2 water features and a fogger? 
seems overkill for most anoles and geckos.
I have heard about a skin condition they develop from being exposed to too much humidity


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> that looks way too humid for an anole setup. You have a pond, 2 water features and a fogger?
> seems overkill for most anoles and geckos.
> I have heard about a skin condition they develop from being exposed to too much humidity


Talk about dejavu.

I shall call you debbie downer from now on, cause everything I see you post is always pointing out either what you don't like about something or why you think things aren't going to work out but never any constructive criticism.

1. Fogger is just for looks, don't even have it plugged in nor do I regularly have it on. Just put it on for the video.

2. The epiweb drip wall is run on a timer and is only on a few seconds a day. (My friend has an anole tank with a dripwall on 24/7 and the anoles actually drink from it)

3. The waterfall is more of a trickle effect, I put a piece of moss on it so it would drip alot more in the video.

4. The entire top is screen, no glass with a computer fan for ventilation.

5. Humidity is staying steady around 55-70 % , which from what I am aware of, is where you want to be around with green anoles and house geckos.

Do you remember what type of skin condition this anole or gecko had and what the persons parameters were on their tank? How would YOU have built this tank? Some more info other than "I heard this happened" would be nice.

I aquired my anole from a friend of mine who has a vivarium similar to this. Not only are the lizards thriving, but the anole in my viv is actually one of the babies he has gotten from them. 

I am unsure how you can look at a tank and see the humidity, especially when there is not even condensation on the glass, but I understand your concern. The video was more of a demonstration on how everything is working in there. The tank has several niches, some that are dryer, some that are more humid, some areas are hot and some areas are cooler. So far the places where I figured the anole would be spending most (if not all of its time) are the perfect conditions for it.

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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

shibbyplustax said:


> Talk about dejavu.
> 
> I shall call you debbie downer from now on, cause everything I see you post is always pointing out either what you don't like about something or why you think things aren't going to work out but never any constructive criticism.
> 
> ...


it was someone here how mentioned I think it may have been Ed.
Not exactly sure.
You should put a hygrometer in there and see what the humidity levels are. Most gecko and anole humidity levels are 60-70%.
I'm not trying to be "Debbie Downer" I am just pointing some things out before you introduce a herp into a viv that is not suited for it's needs.
It's not my pace to tell you what to do with your viv but maybe you should get some frogs or other herps that are use to such wet conditions.
geckos and anoles are not use to wet conditions. Look at their natural habitats. I live in GA and there is anoles everywhere and I live next to the woods. This is not a wet environment in the slightest.



> Environmental 'Diseases'
> Not really a disease, but many environmental problems cause various maladies which keepers will recognize as a 'sick' animal. So a few are covered here.
> 
> _*Humidity - Problems with humidity tale two forms, too high and too low. Excessive humidity can provide ideal conditions for fungal and bacterial infections to develop.*_ Conditions which are too dry often lead to problems with ecdysis (shedding). Lizards will often retain bits of skin shedding on the toes and tail tips. If not removed promptly, these can cause blood flow restrictions and eventual tissue death, perhaps resulting in amputation of the affected areas. Snakes may retain skin on the tail tip as well, and will often fail to remove the spectacle or eye caps. In severe cases, the entire skin shedding may fail to separate and will adhere tightly to the skin surface! Always check your reptile after shedding for these problems and take immediate actions to correct any humidity problems within your cages. Prompt removal of the offending skin is usually easy, and can be made easier still by soaking the affected areas in water for several hours prior to removal.


source: The Learning Center - Diseases of Reptiles



> Blister Disease
> This is caused by excessive humidity and is common in winter. Skin (cutaneous) blisters first appear, which are sterile. These become infected and filled with pus. Blisters should be excised, flushed with 50 per cent peroxide and water and swabbed with iodine, three times daily for four days.


source: http://www.houseandhome.org/reptile-health-problems



> *Blisters are another reptile skin condition, usually caused by an improper environment. In the case of terrestrial reptiles, they are usually caused by an environment in which the humidity is too high.* Aquatic reptiles, such as some turtles, can develop blisters from being in water that is not cleaned frequently enough.


source: Reptile Skin Conditions - Cheappetstore.com



> Fungal infections can occur in reptiles because of a variety of reasons, including:
> 
> *Excessively high humidity*
> Low environmental temperature
> ...


source: Fungal Diseases in Reptiles | petMD

if a vivarium is outside of the normal spectrum for a certain species than it is best not to chance it.
Anoles and geckos are terrestrial and spend their time in trees and whatnot. Not in damp climates or areas....

I am not trying to be the bad person here I am just mentioning the potential risk to the anole or gecko. 
Like I said it is best to find a herp more suited for this type of environment.

I showed you my viv and it wasn't nearly as humid as this viv of yours but the cork background did stay pretty moist. I had a green anole in there, she had a couple blisters and she died a week later. I'm not vet and I can't diagnose things nor was I gonna spend a large amount of money by taking the anole to a specialist but I think possibly these things above might have been a factor.
Those anoles I had in there and the gecko had no need for a water feature but I put them in there cause I thought it was neat and I think I made a mistake and I learned from that lesson.
I use to get defensive when people pointed things out to me like this but there is no point to be so defensive....another lesson learned.
Sure is is a bummer after making the viv you find out it isn't suitable for what you are thinking about putting int there.
In the end it is up to you I'm not telling you what to do...juts simply pointing out what can happen.
That's good the humidity levels are between 55-70% but mine was the same and I had an anole die.
I don't see how with all that water the humidity can be so low.
I based all this off the video btw. These things can still be caused from expose to too much water.
Why didn't I mention this before?....Pretty much cause no one likes to mention their mistakes or shortcomings lol.
Hopefully you have better luck.


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> it was someone here how mentioned I think it may have been Ed.
> Not exactly sure.
> You should put a hygrometer in there and see what the humidity levels are. Most gecko and anole humidity levels are 60-70%.
> I'm not trying to be "Debbie Downer" I am just pointing some things out before you introduce a herp into a viv that is not suited for it's needs.
> ...


no it was YOU who pointed this out earlier in this thread to which i responded: 
_Originally Posted by shibbyplustax 
The canopy of this enclosure is completely dry and there is no glass on top, all screen. I designed the waterfall so that only about 20 inches of the enclosure is beneath it. After doing a few days of testing i am pretty confident that the top 12 inches of the enclosure will stay pretty much 100% dry. When designing this i kept in mind that the anoles will spend most of their time at the top of the enclosure ( which they have been in any enclosure i have made for them) and made plenty of basking spots on both the hotter and colder side that will stay completely dry. I know they will not be able utilize most of the floor space but i.m.e. i have never seen my anoles on the floor of any of my terrariums. 

The purpose for all that water was for housing fish in there too, knowing that the anoles would not use the floor space._


to which you reponded:

_I think it has to do with the overall humidity in the viv....with a sceen top it should be ok.
I was just mentioning it. I am not completely sure of all the details._

I am well aware of these skin problems that are associated with wet conditions. If you look at the video before i demonstrated the mister, you can clearly see the drifwood pieces above and surrounding the waterfall are completely dry along with the background, plants and substrate in those areas.

when i asked for more than "i heard this happened" i meant, in what conditions. what were your tank parameters when your anoles died? was there any dry areas in your tank? the video and the way you describe it, it sounds like everything in their tank was wet, which is not the case with mine.

obviously i have used a hydrometer prior to stating where my humidity was at, as that is where i got that information from. I dont know where you are getting this information on how my viv is much more humid than yours, but just looking at your video i can see that pretty much everything in your tank was saturated with water, which again is not nearly the case with my tank.

I know you are not trying to be a debbie downer, I understand what you were trying to point out, and i agree that it would be helpful to some extent. It could just be the way it comes off through writing, but maybe next time instead of saying "thats way to humid for anoles" you could ask, where is your humidity at? are you aware of skin conditions that come about when a vivarium is too moist? is your substrate/background always saturated with water? 

Anyway thanks for your concern, but i think that everything is running smoothly. I monitored tank parameters and tried to get it as perfect as i could before i added any animals. I spent alot of time researching my animals needs and trying to build the tank around that, with the added bonus of trying to make it enjoyable for me.


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