# new experiment



## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

well, i decided to take my research into fly media a step in the i wanna see direction. i took an old recipe and twiked it.

applesauce
potato flakes
methoparaben
rephasy
water and vinegar

jsut wanted to see if it would make a difference in the flies and the mold that everyone has spoken of. i found my mold problem to be the what i was using as a climbing base for the flies. well post pics as soon as i take them. happi reading


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Good luck. I had some mold in my last two cultures because I moved them to somewhere with less airflow and less light. I added some vinegar to the mix (Already had methylparaben) and it cleared it all up. New culture looks nigh immaculate for a bug infested plop of potato goop in a cup.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm curious as to why people think light will prevent mold in a ff culture...............


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogmanchu said:


> well, i decided to take my research into fly media a step in the i wanna see direction. i took an old recipe and twiked it.
> 
> applesauce
> potato flakes
> ...


 
Why are you adding Repashy?


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Because it's based on personal experience. Light and airflow are the only two factors that changed for my cultures. That said, the addition of vinegar counterbalanced whatever it was that increased mold growth.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

PeanutbuttER said:


> Because it's based on personal experience. Light and airflow are the only two factors that changed for my cultures. That said, the addition of vinegar counterbalanced whatever it was that increased mold growth.


 
Isn't this the same reasoning that was used for spontaneous generation? As an example, a dirty shirt, and grain placed in a dark enviroment eventually generates mice.... 

Ed


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## kylesmoney (Mar 29, 2010)

Ed said:


> Isn't this the same reasoning that was used for spontaneous generation? As an example, a dirty shirt, and grain placed in a dark enviroment eventually generates mice....
> 
> Ed


But thats true, try it!


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Ed said:


> Isn't this the same reasoning that was used for spontaneous generation? As an example, a dirty shirt, and grain placed in a dark enviroment eventually generates mice....
> 
> Ed


True, but that's not to say that there's still not any merit to the conclusions based on that reasoning. For instance in your example, if you don't want mice, don't leave grain sitting around on dirty sheets in dark environments. That's not to say that's the only way nor all you'd have to do to keep mice out, but wouldn't that help?

It seems to me more of a correlatory approach than anything else though. And yes I know that correlation means little when it comes to the topic of causation.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

it's a test i wanna see if the term you r what you eat hold true in bugs, we gute load crickets wil;l it hurt to see if the flies will hold some nutritional quality....






Ed said:


> Why are you adding Repashy?


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

and i agree with peanut i've had that happen with test cultures i've done before as far as light heat darkness etc. no light no air flow brings about mold....at least for me


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

No Brewers Yeast? What is your source of protein? Not enough in the potato flakes for really good production.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

I wonder where FF larva get protein from in the wild? Since most fruit is less than 1% protein by weight.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

I haven't added the flies or the yeast yet doug, but I'm going to lol


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

I was told that the flies carry some yeast with them on their legs when you make new cultures. Is there any truth to that?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogmanchu said:


> it's a test i wanna see if the term you r what you eat hold true in bugs, we gute load crickets wil;l it hurt to see if the flies will hold some nutritional quality....


 
You are aware that the gut transient time (time to empty the gut of all contents) in fruit flies is less than 6 hours? In addition to that you cannot change thier calcium to phosphorus ratio as they have a very efficient method of excreting the excess calcium, the flies also do not store D3 (assuming any is left after the microbes and larval secreted enzymes haven't degraded it). 

You also need to be careful about what is added to the media as you can shift the required nutrients of the flies into becoming unproductive.

In addition where are you sending the flies for analysis?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Reef_Haven said:


> I wonder where FF larva get protein from in the wild? Since most fruit is less than 1% protein by weight.


 
From yeasts and other microbes that are decomposing the fruit. This is why protein is a limiting ingredient (although if you add to much protein to the media it will cause it to do poorly).


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

PeanutbuttER said:


> I was told that the flies carry some yeast with them on their legs when you make new cultures. Is there any truth to that?


 
They not only carry it on thier bodies, the literature indicates that the resting spores can pass through the digestive tract undigested which is another source for inoculation.. the adding of live yeast to the culture before you add the flies is important as it serves two different functions, the first is that it helps keep down unwanted fungal or microbe growth and the second is that it encourages the flies to lay eggs earlier. 

All of this has been covered on the forum several times.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Lets not mistake this thread for actual research as I doubt he's sending anything off for analysis or conducting anything that resembles real research.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

In my experience making many (MANY!) fruitfly cultures, it is contaminated yeast that causes unwanted mold species to pop-up in the cultues. Since I sterilize the cultures and excelsior together by microwaving them, the only way that mold spores can get into the cultures is by contaminated yeast. I also work hard to keep my fruitflies free of mold spores (i.e. don't use contaminated fruitflies to make up new cultures).

Just my experience, Richard.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

I haven't added the flies or the yeast yet doug, but I'm going to lol


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## mr.marvin (Apr 5, 2011)

I sterilize the cultures and excelsior together by microwaving them,


Woodsman:

How long do you micro wave your cultures. Do you do this in their plastic deli cups with the yeast and everything?

Thanks
Marvin


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## tim13 (Feb 1, 2011)

I don't feel light has anything to do with mold growth, but im sure airflow will effect it. Also, cinnamon is a mold inhibitor.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Marvin,

I add the media, water, and excelsior to the containers, cap them, and microwave for 3 1/2 minutes (my microwave is pretty low-power, so it might be different for others). They come out piping hot (!) and I let them rest for about fifteen mintues before adding the yeast and the flies.

This is the best method I've found for keeping mold out. Richard.



mr.marvin said:


> I sterilize the cultures and excelsior together by microwaving them,
> 
> 
> Woodsman:
> ...


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

havent microwaved mine i have mine in mason jars i really cant afford to flip through plastic cups at the moment.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

frogmanchu said:


> havent microwaved mine i have mine in mason jars i really cant afford to flip through plastic cups at the moment.


I have used both jars and plastic. You can reuse the plastic cups and the breathable tops. Just give them a gentle washing.


frogmanchu said:


> I haven't added the flies or the yeast yet doug, but I'm going to lol


Okay, just keep in mind that there are two yeasts you use. Brewers yeast mixed into the media for protein, and a tiny pinch of Active Bakers Yeast sprinkled on top, to out-compete bad bacteria and molds. 
You can make a producing culture without a source of protein, but if you do one with protein, right beside it, you will see a huge difference.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> I have used both jars and plastic. You can reuse the plastic cups and the breathable tops. Just give them a gentle washing.
> 
> Okay, just keep in mind that there are two yeasts you use. Brewers yeast mixed into the media for protein, and a tiny pinch of Active Bakers Yeast sprinkled on top, to out-compete bad bacteria and molds.
> You can make a producing culture without a source of protein, but if you do one with protein, right beside it, you will see a huge difference.


didn't know about the active baker's yeast, i've been putting the brewers yeast onto, that could be the answer. real question what do the maggots really pull from the media and maintain up until adult size


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Some threads for you for ingredient ideas. My recipe is in this first thread towards the end.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/58634-ff-media-recipes-list.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/58072-best-homemade-ff-media.html
As far as what they eat, it's whatever you give them. It's up to you to provide a mix nutritious enough for quality flies and good production. They are going to need *Carbohydrates* (generally from potatoes and sugars, although oatmeal, corn meal, and flours have been used, also fruits and juices for the sugars), *Protein*, (generally from Brewers Yeast, though powdered milk has been used as has Soy---Do NOT use Soy due to its connection with estrogen and the possibility of unnaturally influencing frog sex), and possibly some *vitamins* from the yeast, potatoes etc.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When adding things to the media, you have to keep in mind that the larva also secrete a lot of digestive enzymes into the media to predigest it. See SpringerLink - Biochemical Genetics, Volume 28, Numbers 3-4 This allows them to digest a number of things you wouldn't think they could digest 


Ed


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

okay and thanks to you both doug and ed i'll continue my research


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

You may want to read over the many threads on here as not only have a lot of things been referenced but a lot of what you are considering trying has already been tried..... 

Ed


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

okay i just dont know how to use the search engine to well it never gives me what i'm looking for so i thread it


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

its been a few weeks since i started the cultures with this mix and the larvae are coming out real strong and the flies are producing fast. seen hydei larvae 5 days after the culture was made and that was the one that where pupating. Though this waS fun i got some super fly from repashy and i will be using that for now til something better comes along


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