# Cockroaches in Vivarium - Is this plan OK?



## mmandajade (Feb 13, 2017)

I was doing a bit of maintenance on my 60 gallon viv the other day and pulled it away from the wall to dust the back. I saw two adult cockroaches/palmetto bugs hunkered down in the gaps behind cork flats I have siliconed to the back glass as a background. Gross, yuck, eew. My two adult frogs don't seem to have any problems and I imagine since the roaches are nocturnal and the frogs diurnal, they may not really interact much at all. TBH, I have no idea how long the roaches have been in there, but it might have been for quite some time. 

I imagine the roaches found their way in because I sometimes let my vining plants get a little too out of control and the leaves slightly push up the plastic part of my lid. That part is now fixed but now the roaches can't get out, not that I imagine they'd want to, I bet a viv is like heaven for them haha. 

I've tried digging them out of the back with a skewer, and waiting until dark when they come out to stab or catch them. All unsuccessful. The viv is incredibly well established with a lot of plants and microfauna that I don't want to lose, so CO2, Heat, and total teardown are options I don't want to pursue. My plan at this point is to buy some boric acid baited roach tablets and make a little trap out of a plastic tupperware with a narrow slit cut out (thin enough for the roaches to slide in but not big enough for the frogs). I'll put a tab or two in the trap, and hope the roaches will eat the bait and die. I don't mind if the roaches die somewhere else in the tank, I'll pull them out if I find them, but the other microfauna will eventually clean up if they die behind something I can't reach. To be extra safe, I'll put the trap in after lights out every night, and remove before lights on each morning.

Does this sound like a good plan? From what I've read about boric acid, it's relatively frog-safe. I'm taking measures to make sure that the frogs aren't directly in contact with it. I think the only contact could possibly be from roaches tracking it out into the viv on their feet, or if the roaches die, microfauna eats them, and then a frog eats the microfauna, but that seems pretty far removed and minimal exposure. 

Thanks!!


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

mmandajade said:


> since the roaches are nocturnal and the frogs diurnal, they may not really interact much at all.


Actually, if wanted to harass or eat a frog, I'd do it at night, when the frog is asleep. The 'nocturnal/diurnal noninteraction thesis' is a non-starter.

I'm assuming someone will be along with an idea for a food trap (maybe one with a sticky trap as part of it). Until then, I would work on securing that top. If a roach can get in, a frog can get out. (Edit: Oh, I see you said you fixed it already. You had the good idea before me. )


----------



## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

mmandajade said:


> I was doing a bit of maintenance on my 60 gallon viv the other day and pulled it away from the wall to dust the back. I saw two adult cockroaches/palmetto bugs hunkered down in the gaps behind cork flats I have siliconed to the back glass as a background. Gross, yuck, eew. My two adult frogs don't seem to have any problems and I imagine since the roaches are nocturnal and the frogs diurnal, they may not really interact much at all. TBH, I have no idea how long the roaches have been in there, but it might have been for quite some time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oof, I feel your pain. 

What I would do is remove the frogs, and then bait the heck out of the tank to catch the invaders. I'm not sure I'd use boric acid based baits, but I would totally get the frogs out of the tank. Anything you bait the roaches with will also get some of your microfauna, you need to be prepared for losses. 

Are you going to be doing pest control for the rest of your house?


----------



## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I've had battle against roaches in a facility setting, that concentrated in the warmer, moister and 'foodier' areas and they did stress larger animals than frogs. 

Locally I was able to corral significant enclosure centered populace clusters with topically applied heat, in opulent circumstances. 4 to 11 watt uth on a piece of tile, also glass squares used. In other words they were portable. Its same w unwanted crickets. 

If the building is infested it's an ongoing cull. But it works.


----------



## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The mats can be positioned laterally, against the outside glass. A smear of dog food seems to be more attractive to them than most anything they are scavenging on in a viv.

Warmer, richer, darker. Is key.


----------



## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

I just nabbed 2 of them in my imitator's tank. 

I cut a plastic water bottle in half and inverted the top and stuck it in the base to make a funnel trap. I taped them together with packing tape and baited the inside with dry dog food. Placed it on its side in the tank with a leaf as a ramp to get to the entrance. It only took a couple of hours to catch them. I have used this method in the past with success.

gary


----------



## dablock (Aug 7, 2007)

I've used this method successfully for years. Put some roach gel into the small container (I bought these at a dollar store.). Place the container into the vivarium at lights out, but don't do it on a feeding day as you don't want the flies to eat the gel and then get eaten by a frog. The roach will enter the container, eat the gel, leave the container and then die. You can remove both the container and the dead roach in the morning.


----------



## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I wouldn't count on feeding off days in juxtaposition to reach gel in your viv. 

Using behaviors that are predictibly consistent to manipulate by combining harmless attractants means no assuming or wishful thinking.

For anyone worried about applying a small UTH against the side of a viv, you are worrying needlessly as the mats themselves are predictable and easily measured. A small one will produce a warm spot on the glass with a rapidly vanquishing outward drop within an inch or two interior especially if no insulate material, hobby board, polystyrene flat, etc, is used to back the glass the pad is attached to.

No poison required. No risk, unless you are taping the frogs to the warm spot on the wall.


----------



## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Remember also that where there are adult roaches - there are nymphs.


----------



## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The trick is to place the trap up against the wall in a far corner, I like the trap and its position to enable a pen light peek. Leave it without disturbing for enough time for the roaches to habituate to it as secure harborage. The addition of extremely attractive food and warmer than the ambient situ will cause them to collect in a cluster of adults and nymphs taking significant dents out of the vivs roach populace with its retrieve. 

To be clear, for those still apprehensive about UTH because of stories that if investigated to source will reveal either misuse or accumulative heat smother factors, be assured that an undamaged unit placed on a separate pane is placed close against the viv wall or anywhere from a few mm or cm, so that Warm Air is what is warming the spot. It isn't on the viv glass itself. This negates having to use a thermostat and keeps it versatile and portable, its condition and monitor clear.

You will not crack your tank with misting etc. If you are still nervous about it put a piece of cork etc.. but you are targeting the mid to upper 80s with your topical placement.

You may even note that darts will briefly visit warm zones in repose. But that's a whole other topic.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

This reminds me of when I used to live in Florida. I had a converted 55 gallon viv that I thought was going well. One night I shined a flashlight into the tank and there were Palmetto Bugs literally doing laps around the tank. It was so gross and I felt so bad for my frogs. Who knows how long they had to put up with that. I tore the whole tank down and started over. Good sterilization of everything that goes in the tank will eliminate some of this problem, but not all, especially if, as Kmc mentioned, you have an accompanying infestation in the house. I wish you the best in solving this problem. Sounds like you have some pretty good suggestions in this thread though putting poison in a tank with my frogs would make me super nervous, "poison" dart frogs, notwithstanding 

Mark


----------



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

bulbophyllum said:


> I just nabbed 2 of them in my imitator's tank.
> 
> I cut a plastic water bottle in half and inverted the top and stuck it in the base to make a funnel trap. I taped them together with packing tape and baited the inside with dry dog food. Placed it on its side in the tank with a leaf as a ramp to get to the entrance. It only took a couple of hours to catch them. I have used this method in the past with success.
> 
> gary


Gary one of the best idea's I have seen in a long time regarding an issue so many have in this hobby, one of our unfortunate side effects in keeping darts happy is creating the perfect environ for roach species. I tried this and nabbed 3 adult roaches in 1 tank and 1 in another. I have flooded tanks to remove them which is a real PIA but effective, this is a great non toxic way to remove them without disrupting and established viv.


----------



## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The Pest Control industry incorporates a Test Trap strategy. These small cardboard or plastic traps are baited and placed in buildings before treatment - the tech returns, trained to read the traps, to determine infestation levels per intensity and placement locale, using the number of roaches caught + time frame.

The bottle method mimics a read trap in my opinion. Its exciting to catch a few. Better to catch a cluster of 11, 30, 47, in one retrieve.

A population of small individuals can exist _undetected_ for months.

For every one or two roaches caught - adding warmth will turn the read trap into a multiplicity of strong reduction. Using a 'toothier' textured trap, and warmth, turns the 3 overnight into 11, or 26. Or, after a week undisturbed - 20, 30.

Even without a food resource, warmth draws the insects. The Air Compressor for the airline tubes in the aquatic section was located in a very dry and austere area, yet roaches and crickets collected on it nocturnally, covering it in a solid layer of guano.

Other areas were lamp sockets, flo fixtures, the top of the water heater.


----------



## geckotop (Aug 1, 2021)

bulbophyllum said:


> I just nabbed 2 of them in my imitator's tank.
> 
> I cut a plastic water bottle in half and inverted the top and stuck it in the base to make a funnel trap. I taped them together with packing tape and baited the inside with dry dog food. Placed it on its side in the tank with a leaf as a ramp to get to the entrance. It only took a couple of hours to catch them. I have used this method in the past with success.
> 
> gary


Just made an account to say this worked like a charm for me. Thanks! 

I recently got a new viv with a trio of variabilis from my cousin who's moving to Hawaii. A couple weeks later I noticed some of the begonias getting chewed up and spotted a roach nymph about as large as the frogs. Trapped that one overnight with a soda bottle trap, and I've been leaving the trap in there every night for the week since to see if there's any more. The begonia munching has ceased and I'm hoping we're in the clear. My cousin's rental had a roach problem, so my hope is that a single nymph managed to squeeze in and this'll be the end of it. I remain vigilant.

I also put a trap in the tinc viv I got at the same time, but left it in too long one morning and caught a very confused frog. No harm done. Just opened it up and he hopped on his way. 

-H


----------



## geckotop (Aug 1, 2021)

geckotop said:


> Just made an account to say this worked like a charm for me. Thanks!


Yeah. You guys probably would have seen this coming, but there were more. I kept putting in bottle traps every night until it stopped working. I tried different bait, arrangements, etc. I could still see at least two more roaches crawling around at night but couldn't catch them. Ended up doing a tear-down to try to get the frogs, dry-ice bombing everything, and then rebuilding. There where six roaches total that I saw (3 trapped, 2 washed out in the frog search, 1 found dead after dry ice), ranging from nymphs the same size as the variabilis to adults easily twice their size. I never found the unaccounted for two frogs, but I also never saw even a hint of them over the months I've had this tank. Maybe they got stuck somewhere in the move and couldn't get out, or maybe the roaches actually nabbed them. I haven't seen any roaches in the tank at night since, but I do plan to do another dry ice treatment in two months to be sure. That time should give any potential surviving eggs a chance to hatch, but not enough time to mature and breed.


----------



## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

Kmc said:


> I've had battle against roaches in a facility setting, that concentrated in the warmer, moister and 'foodier' areas and they did stress larger animals than frogs.
> 
> Locally I was able to corral significant enclosure centered populace clusters with topically applied heat, in opulent circumstances. 4 to 11 watt uth on a piece of tile, also glass squares used. In other words they were portable. Its same w unwanted crickets.
> 
> If the building is infested it's an ongoing cull. But it works.


This its something a suggestion to help your battle with roaches in your commercial facilities. I had similar battles with commercial buildings that I took care of. Roaches love traveling the plumbing wasteline superhighways of commercial buildings. If you have floor drains in your buildings install aluminum window scree in all of the drains. They can chew through fiberglass window screen but not aluminum. I found that roaches will even crawl through the water filled p-traps that keep sewer gases from entering a building. After I installed window screen material in the floor drains it cut down 90% - 95% of the roach intrusions. 

They are obnoxious little suckers.


----------



## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

geckotop said:


> Yeah. You guys probably would have seen this coming, but there were more. I kept putting in bottle traps every night until it stopped working. I tried different bait, arrangements, etc. I could still see at least two more roaches crawling around at night but couldn't catch them. Ended up doing a tear-down to try to get the frogs, dry-ice bombing everything, and then rebuilding. There where six roaches total that I saw (3 trapped, 2 washed out in the frog search, 1 found dead after dry ice), ranging from nymphs the same size as the variabilis to adults easily twice their size. I never found the unaccounted for two frogs, but I also never saw even a hint of them over the months I've had this tank. Maybe they got stuck somewhere in the move and couldn't get out, or maybe the roaches actually nabbed them. I haven't seen any roaches in the tank at night since, but I do plan to do another dry ice treatment in two months to be sure. That time should give any potential surviving eggs a chance to hatch, but not enough time to mature and breed.


Learn egg to adult length of time life cycle of the roaches. Eggs can survive CO2 bombing where adults can't. 
If you let two months go by you probably will have more eggs being laid and you may be chasing your tail.


----------

