# 10 gallon question



## scott r (Mar 2, 2008)

Alot of people say that a 10 gallon is big enough for a pair of tincs, auratus, or luecs. How many of you keep a pair of the bigger PDFs in ten gallon enclosures?


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

I would never recommend keeping a pair of the larger darts (tincs/leucs/azureus) in a ten gallon. Some people do, and have a pair in a ten gallon w/ success, but I myself do 10gal/frog MINIMUM. My Tinc pair and Azureus pair are in 40gal breeders, my Leuc pair are in a 20gal, and my Galact pair are in a 40gal.


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## bLue_reverie (Mar 2, 2008)

i keep mine in 10s right now simply for rearing purposes after quarantine for both frogs and plants. i don't have room in my bed room for anything larger.

in my basement, i have several tanks of 29gal and up.
the 10gals are just meant to accomodate them in my room to see how they are doing everyday and eventually find out who gets along with who.

i know of people who have kept breeding pairs in 10s. but again, that's evidence that the frogs won't have any agression problems. i'd have a backup tank ready if you end up having a pair that doesnt get along together. that goes for any frog, larger or thumbnail.


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## Dangerously (Dec 19, 2007)

My biggest problem with a 10 with a pair of Azureus early on was that the 10 gallon tank was definitely too small. The tank could not digest the frog waste produced, even with a good load of springtails. 

I stick with a ten-gallons-per-frog-minimum rule as well now. Ideally I think the Azureus need a little bit more (maybe 15 gals per frog).


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## scott r (Mar 2, 2008)

I am not asking because I am looking to set up ten gallon tanks. I have never kept PDFs in anything smaller than a 40 gallon. 
I recently built a ten vert while bored one day, but it will house a thumb.

The reason for my question, is I read on several websites that sell PDFs that a pair can be housed in a ten gallon, and I have never thought to use anything that small.

So, I wandered if anyone actually did so.


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## Conman3880 (Jul 8, 2007)

I only have frogs in 10 gallons. However, I only have 2 pairs of frogs, and one of the pairs is of thumbnails.

My auratus have been doing fine, they seem to utilize only a small portion of their tank, anyway.

However, I have come to the conclusion that larger tanks are more fun to build & maintain, so all my current & future frogs are soon to be house in 20+ gallon tanks.


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## beachbabe18509 (Oct 29, 2007)

I started off with a ten gallon for my two auratus, but They are getting ready to move into a 29g later this week if everything goes as planned. I never had any problems with them in the ten, just now that they are full grown(and I'm getting a third) I thought something bigger was in order. I have a ten vert still in the process and I will probably keep the ten gallon the auratus are in and make it a vert too. I kinda like the idea of smaller tanks while the frogs are still growing so you can keep a better eyes on them.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

My quarantine tank is a 20g. My viv is a 37gallon. No frogs yet though.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

This came up awhile back regarding size and the 5 gallon vs. 10 gallon per frog rule. Basically, I was told by very seasoned froggers that they know people who keep Tincs in 10 gallons as pairs and have very good success with them, bredding like crazy, and they have been like this for years. 10 gallons per frog is only a guideline, not a proven minimum. Some people say that a pair of Tincs has to be in a 20 gallon atleast, but that is just opinion. What happens when 10 gallons per frog gets bumped to 15? Does that mean 10 per frog was wrong? No, not really. I think we all do well to remember they are guidelines, not rules. Personally I do beleive bigger is better, but I know that doesn't mean your frogs will do better if it is in a 100 gallon vs. a 20. It all comes down to care. I wouldn't neccisarily flip out if someone had a pair of Tinc in a ten. If they had good conditions and were healthy, who is to say it isn't working?


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

My main gripe about ten gallons is that tincs / azureus climb more than what "beginner information" states.

Tincs, especially when nervous, will try and jump through the lid of a tank and bump their snouts. Therefore, I prefer to give tincs a lot of head room. One of my adult males will sleep at the top of his rubbermaid bin, and my breeders lay eggs on leaves instead of on the ground.

Also, once you fill up a ten gallon with substrate, there is only about seven inches of headroom. There really isn't much space even for plants.

The "ten gallon per frog" rule is only useful with smaller sized enclosures, as volume increases faster than surface area.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Very good points. But isn't a 20L just as tall as a standard 10 gallon?


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

Very true,,, I think that w/ many frogs (tincs/azureus/leucs/ect) the amount of floor space is the most important thing... Yes there are always gonna be those frogs that climb more than others (leucs for example) but my male azureus will climb up the tallest plant in his 40 and sleep there. I just dont see a 10gal providing enough floor or vertical space for a terrestrial frog. I use a 15tall for a pair of YOUNG leucs, as it has a little height to them, but in the next few months they too will be going to 20 tall or a 40 breeder if i decide to get 1-2 more.


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## bruce (Feb 23, 2007)

Respectfully almost all of my Tinc breeder tanks are 10 gallon tanks, with some holding trios and breeding is not a problem. They are indeed heavily planted, One or two coco huts per container and the frogs seem to do well with wastes being processed.
The majority of them grew up in these same tanks and were edited out to other tanks when sexes were known or pairs developed. 
The frogs are monitored often though and accounted for unlike alot of my other tanks where a few in the group go missing for weeks due to size of tank and plantings.
When moved to larger tanks (33L and 20L) there actually seems to be more bickering between the frogs that grew up in smaller confines,
BUT if I had my way, I would not use anything less then a 20L as group interaction between them is fascinating, now having extra frogs and trying different set ups.
On the note of space, I just moved my Pums to 25gallon extra high verticals with water features and to see them enjoy they small ponds with behavior and exploring seeming more natural.
One frogger told me, in crowded tanks it seems the frogs HAVE TO get along where as in larger tanks the options are theirs......


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Very interesting Bruce. I have heard similar things.


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