# Missing Leucomela!!!



## mingeace (Apr 3, 2011)

OkOK so its not really that bad but I didn't really know what to title this as.

So I got my first threesome of leucomelas last saturday (wow it seems like I've had them much longer). They were about 2-3 months old when I got them and the breeder I got them from said they were probably big enough to go strait into my 20G Long tank and forgo the little Rubbermaid containment container. Skip down if you don't like my incessant details.

After a few days of having them I noticed that the piece of home-depot acrylic plexiglass crap I got as a top was sagging and horrible. Lessoned learned. At this point I was having trouble locating all three of the frogs at once and always felt one had escaped because of the shitty quality of the saggy fake glass. I then ordered some real glass made to fit and replaced it.

So when I switched out the glass about two days ago I rummaged around the enclosure to see if I had truly lost a frog to poor glass and THOUGHT I saw three at the same time but because of my presence they were scurrying around so much I may have seen the same frog twice... I don't know.

Sorry for being so wordy, (SKIP TO HEARD IF YOU HAVE A LIFE). I still haven't seen that third frog since I "saw" him while replacing the glass even at the last two feedings, the other two seem shy but bold enough to eat. So do I take out the other two frogs and tear things apart to find and segregate and make sure the third one is eating or do I assume its very shy and is finding food some how. 

I just don't know and would hate a frog to starve and need some advice. Sorry again its so long, I feel that the more information the better.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

If he escaped days ago he's dried out and dead by now....or not very happy. Leucs are one dart frog that can take a good humidity drop but it depends on where you live..that would be the only way he'd have a chance.

Is the tank heavily planted and detailed or is it simple plants and moss/leaf litter.

If there was a space open to escape I would make sure they're all in there. Leucs climb the glass and to the very top. If there was an opening and it saw a chance to escape it would. The plexiglass they sell at home depot is way too thin. Only thick pieces will work and even then you'd have to turn them over every now and then to stay on top of the bow from humidity. 

I feel for you. Not a good feeling to feel like you screwed up bad with your first frogs. It can be a gut shot and make you lose interest fast.

Dart frogs are hardy and while moving them might stress them out, sometimes it's needed. They will acclimate faster than when you brought them home. I'd take 3 deli cups and have them ready. Remove the frogs one at a time and have someone with you as a spotter to make sure nothing escapes under your nose. Put them in the containers and when you have two frogs, keep breaking down the tank as much as you can without destroying your work. Hopefully you'll find your frog. They can hide anywhere so if you have a lot of wood and accents in the tank be careful.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I wouldn't assume it escaped, but if it is not coming out to feed, I would be worried. Leucs are very arboreal compared to some darts. I would spray VERY heavy and then feed as the "rain" settles. Come back to the tank after about 5 mins. If the tank is on a stand, try and approach the tank from under. Most animals perceive shadows and movement overhead as a threat. If you move slow and they are busy feeding... I think the number you count is the number you have.. Sorry if you have lost one...

JBear


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

Ok so dont freak out just yet! When I brought home my auratus one vanished and wasnt seen for 7 days. If he is in there he will come out. Try not feeding for a day or two and mist heavy then feed the second or third day. Dont go tearing apart your viv just yet. Not to mention rummaging around the tank you could accidently injure the frog if it is hiding! Since there is a chance its running loose you still have time. It will take more then a day or two to dry the frog out assuming your house isnt 90 with 20% humidity! Start by placing shallow lids or plates of water around the room near or under things it could be hiding under. Check each water station every morning for a frog. You can even drop a few flies on the floor now and then just in case! Good luck and dont give up!


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## mingeace (Apr 3, 2011)

Thanks for the help. I actually thinks its probably in there. The plexiglass never sunk in to the point where there was a crack but I've read on here how these little guys can just squirm out of anything so I worried. 

Tank is VERY well planted and has plenty of hiding spots. In fact there are a few areas I tucked back under rocks and logs that are like deep caves and there are pieces of cork board that he could quite easily be hiding under. I am doubtful he escaped but it could be a possibility I guess. my real concern is that I haven't seen him eat, let alone seen him. How long can a juvenile dart go without a good meal? 


Thanks again for the help and reassurance, I just don't know whats "normal" or not yet and feel a bit uneasy when not being able to see my animal for repetitive days.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

mingeace said:


> Thanks for the help. I actually thinks its probably in there. The plexiglass never sunk in to the point where there was a crack but I've read on here how these little guys can just squirm out of anything so I worried.
> 
> Tank is VERY well planted and has plenty of hiding spots. In fact there are a few areas I tucked back under rocks and logs that are like deep caves and there are pieces of cork board that he could quite easily be hiding under. I am doubtful he escaped but it could be a possibility I guess. my real concern is that I haven't seen him eat, let alone seen him. How long can a juvenile dart go without a good meal?
> 
> ...


Try my suggestion in post #3. Let us know your count..

JBear


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

ghutch0203 said:


> Since there is a chance its running loose you still have time. It will take more then a day or two to dry the frog out assuming your house isnt 90 with 20% humidity!


Unfortunately, I don't think there are many homes out there with humidity high enough right now for a dart frog to survive...and honestly, if it's been gone more than a few hours, it's probably already perished.

I would try JB's idea first, and if that didn't work, I'd then do what DJ suggested.


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

do you have GS background?
i had a leuc who loved getting inside my background.
if they find a way in there they can find a way out.
so dont tear apart yr background 

ive also had a leuc escape when i was doing something in the tank and i didn't see him get by me. but i had a feeling something wasn't right. 30 min later he was hopping along the baseboard. that frog was so happy to get back in his tank.

i think yr frog is just hiding. like i said he could be in the background.

the more u rummage around in the tank the longer he will hide. IMO if hes out of the tank days ago hes dead  so no point freaking out the other frogs. just leave the tank alone and see if he comes out in a few days. ive had frogs hide for days.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

WendySHall said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think there are many homes out there with humidity high enough right now for a dart frog to survive...and honestly, if it's been gone more than a few hours, it's probably already perished.
> 
> I would try JB's idea first, and if that didn't work, I'd then do what DJ suggested.


Maybe not most dart frogs, but you never know with a leuc. They are the only dart frog that survives estivation, pretty sure at least. Although we're talking about 3 month old juvis. Pumilio can be dried out pretty good too. The reason I told him to break down the tank was because there was an easy escape route. Otherwise I'd just say it was hiding and he was just being a nervous first time owner. 

I know if there was a half inch gap on top of my leuc tank, at least one or 2 would find their way out by the afternoon.


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## mingeace (Apr 3, 2011)

Well friends I was simply being a "nervous first time owner". Today without actually doing the "rain" and feeding thing I just snuck up commando style (yeah I bet that was funny to watch) and peered up into the tank and noticed a frog that didn't have the same markings as the other two more bold ones. This got me excited and then moments later I saw all three at once. The two less bold frogs are smaller but dont look unhealthy (although I dont really know what that looks like) so I fed them all and rejoiced in having them all safe.

Thanks for all the help and tips on what to do as well as the reassurance that this is semi common. Its great to reference a place where people really know what their talking about.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

mingeace said:


> Well friends I was simply being a "nervous first time owner". Today without actually doing the "rain" and feeding thing I just snuck up commando style (yeah I bet that was funny to watch) and peered up into the tank and noticed a frog that didn't have the same markings as the other two more bold ones. This got me excited and then moments later I saw all three at once. The two less bold frogs are smaller but dont look unhealthy (although I dont really know what that looks like) so I fed them all and rejoiced in having them all safe.
> 
> Thanks for all the help and tips on what to do as well as the reassurance that this is semi common. Its great to reference a place where people really know what their talking about.


Great News!!! Congrats, and I am glad you had the patience to wait it out instead of ruining all your hard work tearing throught the viv!

Any pics of the little guys?

JBear


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yay!! Great to hear!

My female Leuc has made a nice hidey hole for herself under a large piece of wood. I tried to find the bottom of it with my fingers but couldn't reach. I'd fill it in but I worry that there are eggs or tads in there (it's possible that the bottom of the hole is below water level as it goes underneath the wood that separates my land from my pond). She hangs out in there most of the time, so, when don't see her, I assume she's chilling in the hole. 

I let her be. If I was a frog, I'd want a nice hidey hole too.


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

WendySHall said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think there are many homes out there with humidity high enough right now for a dart frog to survive...and honestly, if it's been gone more than a few hours, it's probably already perished.
> 
> I would try JB's idea first, and if that didn't work, I'd then do what DJ suggested.


I think you underestimate darts. Its going to take more then a few hours to kill a healthy frog. Leucs are very hardy darts and can tolerate alot more then most. There are plenty of froggers with stories of lost darts turning up a few days later.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

DJboston said:


> Maybe not most dart frogs, but you never know with a leuc. They are the only dart frog that survives estivation, pretty sure at least. Although we're talking about 3 month old juvis. Pumilio can be dried out pretty good too. The reason I told him to break down the tank was because there was an easy escape route. Otherwise I'd just say it was hiding and he was just being a nervous first time owner.
> 
> I know if there was a half inch gap on top of my leuc tank, at least one or 2 would find their way out by the afternoon.


Yes, I understand that the leucs can survive lower humidity. However, when I read about everyone putting leucs through "dry season", it's always adults and at about 50-60% humidity. Normal house humidity runs between 30-50%, however with winter not quite over, many homes are even lower than that. My house humidity is only at 20% right now and we've had rain a couple of days in the last week...thunderstorm is even expected today.

So, honestly, after a few days of being missing and the gap being present, I expected that he probably escaped and perished. But, in the off chance that he was in the tank, I didn't see the need to tear it apart and JB's option seemed to be the one to try first. However, if he wouldn't have shown up...I know I'd have torn the tank apart too. 



mingeace said:


> Well friends I was simply being a "nervous first time owner". Today without actually doing the "rain" and feeding thing I just snuck up commando style (yeah I bet that was funny to watch) and peered up into the tank and noticed a frog that didn't have the same markings as the other two more bold ones. This got me excited and then moments later I saw all three at once. The two less bold frogs are smaller but dont look unhealthy (although I dont really know what that looks like) so I fed them all and rejoiced in having them all safe.
> 
> Thanks for all the help and tips on what to do as well as the reassurance that this is semi common. Its great to reference a place where people really know what their talking about.


So glad to hear you didn't lose him! Make sure you fix that gap...even if you have to put tape/plastic wrap over it until you can get a more permanent solution. I'm sure you don't want to go through that again. You can get glass for the top at Lowe's very cheaply (I think around $8)...they'll even cut it for you if you want. 



ghutch0203 said:


> I think you underestimate darts. Its going to take more then a few hours to kill a healthy frog. Leucs are very hardy darts and can tolerate alot more then most. There are plenty of froggers with stories of lost darts turning up a few days later.


A few hours is what I was told by a breeder that I respect very much. Also, I have experienced an escapee already. I had a young terribilis froglet escape. He was found the next day (less than 24 hours) dried out so badly that he was actually black and crusty. Granted, it wasn't a leuc and it was almost a day...but as bad as it was...I believe the "few hours" has the ability to kill if not at least cause serious harm.


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