# A few planted tanks



## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

Let me know what you think (constructive critisism is encouraged).







10-gallon (terrestrial)







10-gallon (terrestrial)







18x18x18







12x12x18







Nice bromelliad!







10-gallon (terrestrial)


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

Guess no one wants to comment my tanks???! Haha!


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I like the 3rd one! The others look like they could use a little hideout of some sort but it's hard to tell


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

okay cool, Pacblu......thanks for the comment!


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## jknight (Jun 25, 2009)

what kind of lights are you using? Some of the plants look stressed..


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Do you keep darts in those?


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## highvoltagerob (Apr 14, 2012)

I also like the look of the 3rd one. The brom pic looks pretty nice too!  

What is the red glow that I see? What light temps are you using? (its probably just be the pics, but it looks like the glow in a warmer for fried chicken, lol)


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

Haha....yeah, the glow was a red heat lamp, but it is not part of that tank. kinda just a "picture fluke" if you will. My temps for that particular tank fluxuate, but are mainly in the 80 degree- 82 degree range. humidity is always between 50%-60% which is perfect for Bastis. To answer the question the 10 gallon terrestrial tanks I built just for fun, or possibly for holding tanks (if applicable)....and the 12x12x18 I have my R. Imitator "intermedius"
....and the 18x18x18 houses my O. Pumilio "Salt Creek" Bastis.

The 18 cube is my favorite too, so its not surprising that people like that the best. I definately go for the "natural" look and environment in all of my tanks and do my research on locales and species kept in them before I do them, just in case everyone couldn't tell haha.


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

oh...and JKNIGHT- I use mostly 5.0 UVB on all of my tanks. It gives me a good heat to ventilation reading (due to hood size and small heat output) and works perfectly on my tanks when set up properly. I know people say that the UVB does no good for the frogs, but it works well for plants....and I also feel that all animals benefit from UVB and it helps with digestion and thier balance of calcium that stays in thier system.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

djfergu said:


> oh...and JKNIGHT- I use mostly 5.0 UVB on all of my tanks. It gives me a good heat to ventilation reading (due to hood size and small heat output) and works perfectly on my tanks when set up properly. I know people say that the UVB does no good for the frogs, but it works well for plants....and I also feel that all animals benefit from UVB and it helps with digestion and thier balance of calcium that stays in thier system.


With a glass/Plexiglass or screen lid?


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## highvoltagerob (Apr 14, 2012)

I agree completely with you that everything benefits for a little UVB. Do you use screen for the tops of your tanks to allow the UVB to enter?


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

To both Members- Yes, i use screen tops for all of my tanks to allow for UVB to come through. I work mostly with ZooMed terrariums, rather than Exo-Terra (just like them more....no real reason), and also have some Exo Terras that I keep geckos in too, so I am sure that you are familiar with those and know they have a full screen top and also ventilation in front under the doors. I use computer fans for circulation of heat and air as well.
Any 10-gallons I have either do not currently have lids, or are partial ventilation.....and are the aquarium type enclosures modified for frogs. I think these types are more durable and less likely to leak.


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

djfergu said:


> To both Members- Yes, i use screen tops for all of my tanks to allow for UVB to come through. I work mostly with ZooMed terrariums, rather than Exo-Terra (just like them more....no real reason), and also have some Exo Terras that I keep geckos in too, so I am sure that you are familiar with those and know they have a full screen top and also ventilation in front under the doors. I use computer fans for circulation of heat and air as well.
> Any 10-gallons I have either do not currently have lids, or are partial ventilation.....and are the aquarium type enclosures modified for frogs. I think these types are more durable and less likely to leak.


Screen tops? No lids? How are you keeping humidity at an appropriate level? Did you switch away from all the heat lamps? Judging by your pictures it is quite dry inside those tanks. Plants are dying and I can only imagine it is quite dry for the frogs.


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

haha...with all due respect.......I am quite happy with what ihave going and my frogs are quite happy as well. they are in the living conditions that they are used to in the wild and require only 50%-60% humidity (and my house is already 52% humid), so thats good, and also temps are around 80 degrees, which is super ideal. You are not the 1st to state this about the bromeliads, but I assure you they are going to be alright. I have adequite heat and circulation...and have a mister set up to sray for 10 seconds every 4 hours during the day (and 20 seconds when its 8:00 PM). I also add "black tea" to all of my water sources and bromeliads so they are always clean and filled enough. Trust me, i appreciate to heads up, but everything is fine. Promise! Thank you!


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

BTW- no heat lamps are being used....only the computer fan, the 5.0 UVB bulb/hood, and my HOME thermostat at about 78 degrees. Thanks!


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

You have a subdual arrogance about you...Rejecting advise from many people who know what they are talking about, whatever works for you.

While pumilio enjoy a little dryer climate and warmer temps from time to time, they certainly do not experience that for long periods as you suggest in the wild. If you are misting that often and it is still that dry and plants are dying...you have an issue. You would be unwise to so quickly believe you are so right and discredit friendly, important advice.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

How are you measuring your temperatures and humidity?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Glass top. Simple compact fluorescent light. More plants.

Here's a pic, I just stole, of a nice tank that was recently posted. Look how it's filled with plants, lots of hiding spots for the frogs, and has a nice humid look to it.









http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/84613-leuc-pics-my-first-frogs.html

My recommendation is to spend time looking around in this section at the many builds. You'll get some great ideas. People here are quite clever.

Want to also say that your tanks look good! Just need some filling in with more living stuff and needs more humidity for the plants and frogs.


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

CSCHUB- Okay....well you can "name-call" and be immature about this and tell me that I have an arrogance about me, but that will not get you very far. Saying derogatory comments is a far reach from just giving advice and so maybe you could re-word next time. i am willing to stay professional and say no offense taken this time. 
That being said, have you ever actually BEEN to Panama or Columbia....or do you just generate your oppinions based on this site and what people are having success with in thier home environments? Also....do you live in California, or is your weather much different from mine (this goes for everyone who wants to TRY and bash what I am doing BTW)?
I have resources that have owned, bred, and cared for over 1,000 Pumillio that are stating that YOU are wrong in this instance and that even though its popular oppinion to keep certain types a certain way, it doesn't mean you are right.
I am not trying to be crass.....but I feel backed into a corner and i will defend myself on this one. Lets just agree to disagree, and when I am successful.....then we will both know whos right. Thanks and kind regards!


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

JPccUSA- I measure my humidity and heat with a probe that is connected to a device that reads the levels. It is pretty accurate (going by the ACTUAL temp./humidity in my home).


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

FrogFace- You are my friend no matter what, but I have to disagree that the glass top is a good option for my Pums. or my bromeliads. Bromeliads need drying out during the day.....and as long as I have water in the axols, they SHOULD be fine. I may look into this more (I am no plant expert!). As far as the frogs are concerned, Bastis. live next to the equator (literally) and absorb humidity from certain sources in the wild through thier skin, meaning that you do not have to ADD humidity to the vivarium as much, when they can just simply seek it out in the substrate and/or plants. These frogs like it moist but not WET and thrive in a drier environment, so that what I provide for them. I understand that people on here do it different, and I say horray for those who have success with the methods they use, but I have my way and you all have yours. We cannot all just agree on everything.
The problem at hand is that people are taking this too far and I am feeling borderline attacked, here. I came to have agood time and make friends.....not to thrive on "frog drama" or make enemies. Honestly, to be frank here- if Marcus Breece of Simply Natural Dart Frogs, Eileen of Understory enterprises, and 3 other great sources say I am doing things the way they are intended to be done....then thats what I am GOING to do! Period. I value your oppinion but do not agree, simple as that.


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

Also- Frogface, that tank is for Leucomelas.....that makes a world of difference when it comes to habitat, my friend!


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

Update on plants:
I just wanted to post an FYI that I have come to the conclusion that the reason the Bromeliads are looking the way they are, is due to the fact that they are in a damp substrate. my wife has brought this to my attention and we are changing it to a drier substrate tomorrow 1st thing (and trimming the dead leaves, ect...).
I appreciate all of your thoughts on how it has to do with too much ventilation and things of that nature, but it simply has nothing to do with that. 
In the end, i am just glad my wife figured out a solution for a potential BIG problem. Thanks, wife!


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

djfergu said:


> CSCHUB- Okay....well you can "name-call" and be immature about this and tell me that I have an arrogance about me, but that will not get you very far. Saying derogatory comments is a far reach from just giving advice and so maybe you could re-word next time. i am willing to stay professional and say no offense taken this time.
> That being said, have you ever actually BEEN to Panama or Columbia....or do you just generate your oppinions based on this site and what people are having success with in thier home environments? Also....do you live in California, or is your weather much different from mine (this goes for everyone who wants to TRY and bash what I am doing BTW)?
> I have resources that have owned, bred, and cared for over 1,000 Pumillio that are stating that YOU are wrong in this instance and that even though its popular oppinion to keep certain types a certain way, it doesn't mean you are right.
> I am not trying to be crass.....but I feel backed into a corner and i will defend myself on this one. Lets just agree to disagree, and when I am successful.....then we will both know whos right. Thanks and kind regards!


Just so you are aware I never called you any names. I just stated that you were being quite blunt and arrogant in regards to you being right and all the other 20 people trying to help you being wrong. I tried giving you advice and so did many others, but you brush it aside as if it has no merit. Don't post asking questions or seeking help if you can't take a little criticism. 

Also to clarify I have been to both Costa Rica and Panama so I think I know at least a small amount about what I am talking about. And no I obviously do not live in California because it clearly states I am from Milwaukee, WI.

I was not stating that they must be kept a certain way but simply implying that your suggestion of temps and humidity is not even relevant to the native environment where these frogs can be found. Everyone has there own opinions and preferred methods but apparently all were not of sufficient quality for you.

As someone stated earlier you have just recently joined this forum and you are already putting yourself in a difficult situation. I am not the only person with these perceptions, just the one telling it as it is. Take peoples advice or leave it. I don't personally care it will just simply come at your frogs expense.


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## djfergu (Feb 9, 2012)

I feel like your last response post was a bit harsh, and extremely negative. I don't want this to turn into a tit for tat situation. I didn't mean to come across as a know it all...I understand now that I was typing with my emotions...the same why I feel you have. We are all here for the same reasons. The truth of the matter is that I was told to do things one way by someone I very much so respect...this was after I posted asking for people to comment on my post. That someone (Marcus Breece) is somone who's got a lot more experience than I do...so without a doubt I would have to follow his methods...I am sure you understand all this. The sad part about this whole ordeal is that I now feel that this forum is more of a pissing match to see who can do things better...and it really should be about the animals and expressing yourself as a breeder. The negative responses to all my posts make me feel as though this forum is more of a my way or the highway bashing board. When signing up to be apart of this forum I wasn't expecting that. I guess it just is what it is...and since you made it very clear that my posts mean nothing than I figure this is that last I will be reading anything from you. To end this, I feel it was a bit abrasive to comment on that fact that not doing things your way will be my frogs demise...kinda crappy don't you think?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Oh good. Another popcorn thread...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

djfergu said:


> oh...and JKNIGHT- I use mostly 5.0 UVB on all of my tanks. It gives me a good heat to ventilation reading (due to hood size and small heat output) and works perfectly on my tanks when set up properly. I know people say that the UVB does no good for the frogs, but it works well for plants....and I also feel that all animals benefit from UVB and it helps with digestion and thier balance of calcium that stays in thier system.


 
If you are using UVB transparent materials which actually allow UVB to reach the frogs then you have to set the enclosure up to allow the frogs to avoid exposure if they choose. (see http://people.oregonstate.edu/~blaustea/pdfs/HanBiotropica2007.pdf). If you don't provide the ability to avoid it and perform normal behaviors while shaded, they will decrease thier activitites. 

As a second issue, the substrate (and many areas of the enclosure) look to be excessively dry for the frogs. A humidity range of 60% is the minimum I would suggest that you should be looking for in the tanks (Lotter's etal), since below that the frogs may react as if it was the dry season with reduced exposure (other taxa of dendrobatids basically hunker down to avoid excessive dryness). In addition, dry/drier substrates prevent the frog from being able to use evaporative cooling since that makes it difficult for them to uptake moisture via the drinking patch. 

Damp/moist or even wet substrates aren't an absolute for root rot (or even poor doing) by bromeliads it is whether or not the substrate is saturated or not.. For example see the pictures in this post http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/55550-clay-background-vert-8.html#post484793). If the substrate drains well, typically the bromeliads do just fine. You may be having issues due to insufficient moisture for the bromeliads (the tanks should be filled), and insufficient moisture in the substrate. If the substrate is moist the frogs can and will still behave normally since they can uptake moisture from the substrate to prevent dehydration (see comments on dry season above)..... 

Some comments,

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Sorry, but I'm not going to sugar coat this. Cam (cschub13) isn't being negative. He is trying to save your frogs. You are the one turning this negative. You have some good people trying to help you. You really should listen. 
Yes, we all know Marcus Breece. Might I suggest that you may have misinterpreted some of his information. Or perhaps the tool you are using to measure humidity is off. 
You are running open tops and while this is *possible*, it is not generally recommended. It takes a very experienced hand to be able to build an open topped viv while still supplying/creating the necessary microclimates for them to be happy and healthy.

You would also put forth the idea that you know everything about frogs and cannot possibly be doing anything wrong...yet in another thread you have commented that your Salt Creeks have quit calling while in your care. 2 of our finest, most experienced keepers are trying to point out to you (in that thread) that your vivs are too dry and may also have other problems with their environment.
I'm a little confused about this statement.


djfergu said:


> BTW- no heat lamps are being used....only the computer fan, the 5.0 UVB bulb/hood, and my HOME thermostat at about 78 degrees. Thanks!


In another thread you were quite insistent that using your heat lamp was the right thing to do. -- Ahh, scratch that, reading further into that thread I see you disconnected the heat lamp 2 days ago.

So go ahead and call me negative too, but that's not what this post is about. This post is about trying to get you to open your eyes and ears and listen to some of the good advice being given to you. Straight up, if you don't, you are going to have problems and quickly. A frog can dry out and die in a matter of hours or even shorter under bad conditions. Yeah Yeah, I know, I just made the implication that your frogs could die if you don't change something. I know what you are thinking but maybe, just maybe, I'm not being a harsh jerk to you, but rather, trying to be a lifesaver to your frogs.
Perhaps Cam, myself, and others are not being jerks to you, but rather, we actually care about your frogs and would like to see you succeed.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Ed said:


> You may be having issues due to insufficient moisture for the bromeliads (the tanks should be filled), and insufficient moisture in the substrate.


Rereading this in the light of day, under the influence of caffeine, I realized that comment about tanks could be misinterpreted. I was referring to the bromeliads themselves (since the ones that hold water are called "tank bromeliads"). The gaps in the leaves should be kept with water in them as much as possible. 

Ed


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