# The Wardian Case Project



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

The case was custom built by a local guy for a large snake or iguana, hence the tub set into the floor of the case for soaking. It consists of a wooden frame and thin acrylic panels all the way around. I placed two concrete backer board panels against the back (cured with muriatic acid, rinsed, and then painted with a buttermilk/moss mixture) as well as the branch:











I didn't think about having to secure sphagnum to the branch in the most awkward corner of the entire case until it was too late...so I crawled in rather than try to pull the branch out and risk scraping off half the moss:




















The case upon initial planting. Some plants still need to find a place within the case, but that will be done later: 











One of the problems I ran into was water collecting on the floor of the case--it has an acrylic sheet on it, but the Rubbermaid tub just sits in the hole, and therefore there isn't a watertight seal around its edges. After the first spraying of everything I had some leaking issues on the floor, so I will need to see if I can silicone or seal the edges somehow. I would have preferred to be able to remove the tub, but I'm not sure I there is a way around it.

This is an experiment in progress, so I'll update it as things move forward...for good or for bad.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Very cool Ron. What about a tub within a tub?


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

Very cool Ron, I must say I always pictured with hair...


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

For the record: placing something treated with a buttermilk moss milkshake into a warm, humid enclosure will, after a couple days, completely reek. 

Added some more cuttings to the branch today to help it fill in (mostly Ficus "Panama). Still trying to decide what to do with the plastic tub...whether I want to use it for an aquatic space or just fill it with LECA and let some Selaginella and other plants go to town in it.

Hunter: it's strange to see/meet folks in person after "getting to know" them on the boards and forums. The first time I met Ed, I thought he was going to be in his 80's...


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## frog22 (Sep 8, 2010)

Very nice, and you having to get in it gives everyone a size comparison well done.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

skylsdale said:


> For the record: placing something treated with a buttermilk moss milkshake into a warm, humid enclosure will, after a couple days, completely reek.
> 
> Added some more cuttings to the branch today to help it fill in (mostly Ficus "Panama). Still trying to decide what to do with the plastic tub...whether I want to use it for an aquatic space or just fill it with LECA and let some Selaginella and other plants go to town in it.
> 
> Hunter: it's strange to see/meet folks in person after "getting to know" them on the boards and forums. The first time I met Ed, I thought he was going to be in his 80's...


Ron,

I am very interested to see how the backer board works... I have a 90 gallon cube front opening enclosure I want to convert over to plants and that sounds like a great idea. 

For some strange reason a lot of people thought I was a really old person... not sure why.... maybe I just reached grumpy at a young age.. should I start complaining about young people having no respect??


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Don't worry Ed, I'm not even 30 and already find myself shaking my fist and calling the cops on the neighborhhood kids...."damn kids, get off my lawn". 

Ron, some type of hydroponic base in the tupperware could be cool.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Ron's got a perfect head, and Ed yells at kids that get on his lawn. Now we know. 

This would actually be very interesting if you can get moss to grow on concrete backer board.

**You beat me to it, Ray.**


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Ed said:


> I am very interested to see how the backer board works... I have a 90 gallon cube front opening enclosure I want to convert over to plants and that sounds like a great idea.


I'm not sure who it will turn out--as it stands, I can't really keep it very damp. I think having a misting system employed would provide the constant moisture to really get the moss going...but it's still too early to tell. I am looking into a misting system and getting a fan or two in there for some air movement.



> For some strange reason a lot of people thought I was a really old person... not sure why.... maybe I just reached grumpy at a young age.. should I start complaining about young people having no respect??


I was hoping you would run across that last comment. Maybe online forums just age people: for every year you spend on them, you age 5 or 6. All the "crotchety old froggers" are probably a bunch of folks in their mid-late 30's.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

stemcellular said:


> Ron, some type of hydroponic base in the tupperware could be cool.


I was looking around at the local hydro shop the other day. There is Hydroton...but they also have rock wool. At the University of Washington greenhouse they use rock wool almost exclusively for all their Nepenthes and Lycopodium spp. That would get pretty heavy in the tub, though. Did you have something else in mind?


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Very nice Ron, one thing you could do to is run a bead of silicone around the edge of the hole.... then when you place the tub in the hole and water is placed in it (thus putting downward pressure on it), it will be watertight.


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## Protean (Dec 27, 2007)

ron, rtv silicone will seal the tupperware to the base. just prime up the tupperware with some mineral spirits.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks for the input, Jason--I knew standard silicone wouldn't "bond" it sufficiently. I'll go pick up some RTV and give it a go.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Now 2 months into the project, I have a few images to share. I used some RTV silicone to secure the tub to the base of the case and all seems well so far. I also picked up a 4' 4-bulb T5 fixture today and got it over the case:










I ditched the plant trays and decided to put a layer of LECA down on the floor of the case, topped with a smattering of sphagnum. I have a variety of plants in there at this point. The cement backer panels don't stay completely damp most of the time because I don't have an automated misting system, and I don't even spritz it every day. Regardless, some areas are staying damp and you can see some color change...and upon close inspection today, I noticed some faint green areas.










Some of the epiphytes on the branch: lower is Begonia squamulosa and above it as a Pleurothallid orchid (can't recall the name off the top of my head) whic started producing keikis once i put it in the case.










An angled shot looking in...the tub has water and a Turface substrate, along with some Anubias nana, Hydrocotyle sp. and some Java fern. There are also a few Anthurium crystallinum divisions dropped in there. To the left are some of the understory plants: more A. crystallinum, Begonia squamulosa, Peperomia, Philodendron spp. and whatnot.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

skylsdale said:


> I was looking around at the local hydro shop the other day. There is Hydroton...but they also have rock wool. At the University of Washington greenhouse they use rock wool almost exclusively for all their Nepenthes and Lycopodium spp. That would get pretty heavy in the tub, though. Did you have something else in mind?



Are they using slabs or the mini cubes? I was thinking of using the mini cubes next time I take some cutting , but always figured the slabs would stay too moist


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

skylsdale said:


> I ditched the plant trays and decided to put a layer of LECA down on the floor of the case, topped with a smattering of sphagnum. I have a variety of plants in there at this point. The cement backer panels don't stay completely damp most of the time because I don't have an automated misting system, and I don't even spritz it every day. Regardless, some areas are staying damp and you can see some color change...and upon close inspection today, I noticed some faint green areas.


I wonder if anyone makes an unsealed terracotta tile. I imagine something like that would work perfectly as a base for growing moss, since it's a pit more porous


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

Any tips on where to acquire a huge branch like that? Or any ideas on what kind of wood it is? I am currently looking for large branches for my build. Pretty sick setup man keep up the great work.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I always thought Ron was taller in real life?? 


Well done Ron, you need to put in a mister there fella and an air circulation fan. Then those plants will take off....


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

This is great. It is rare that we get to see actual "build" threads from the more experienced wise members here. I cant remember the last one actually lol....Notice I used the word wise instead of something else 

Im not usually a fan to cabinets or coverted furniture into vivs, but this looks awesome. They typically look like frankenvivs, but this is nice and clean. I love the epiphyte feature log. It'll look absolutely amazing in a year or so. 

Have you thought about adding some skirting around the base of the cabinet to hide the tupperware? The only other humble tip I can give is that a slope into the tupperware might make it feel more natural. Or even planting a ton of anubias along the back edge, and draping java moss from the land into the water. Anyways, keep it up!


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> Are they using slabs or the mini cubes?


I'm not sure. If I remember right, everything is planted in pots and/or baskets with rock wool...so I think they get it from larger bales and just pull off what they need to fill the basket.



Brotherly Monkey said:


> I wonder if anyone makes an unsealed terracotta tile. I imagine something like that would work perfectly as a base for growing moss, since it's a pit more porous


It would...but cement should work as well--it's what Brian Kubicki uses in the back of all his enclosures at the CRARC. But his have drip walls down the back, so there is a more consistent level of moisture. Like Shawn mentioned, I need to get a misting system hooked up in there.

Clay would actually work well, but I've got another project planned for that...



tachikoma said:


> Any tips on where to acquire a huge branch like that? Or any ideas on what kind of wood it is?


The piece I'm using is a large exposed root from a cedar tree that I pulled out of a riverbank. I let it sit a season or two until I figured out what I wanted to do with it. Of course, being both from "the wild" and also cedar, many would say not to keep it in their enclosures, but I also don't have any frogs in this one (and in the frog tanks where I've used old weathered cedar branches before, the only problem I came across is that the wood pieces broke down over time more quickly than I would have liked). I can't imagine what the cost of a piece of wood like this would be were you to purchase somethign similar.



sports_doc said:


> I always thought Ron was taller in real life??
> 
> 
> Well done Ron, you need to put in a mister there fella and an air circulation fan. Then those plants will take off...


Ha! Yeah, it's deceptive...

I keep forgetting to order a fan or two for inside--the air movement and regular moisture would be a real improvement.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

The UW uses whatever rockwool the police confiscate from hydro grow systems and give them. For the most part, they like the crouton sized pieces. They are put with fibers vertically NOT horizontally so they drain and don't retain nearly as much water.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

skylsdale said:


> I'm not sure. If I remember right, everything is planted in pots and/or baskets with rock wool...so I think they get it from larger bales and just pull off what they need to fill the basket.


I think the term for the loose fiber is "flox". Which would make sense, since it's more airy than the slabs.


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## azrickster (Jul 28, 2009)

May I ask where you aquired the Begonia squamulosa, been looking for one of those and can't find it anywhere.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

frogparty said:


> The UW uses whatever rockwool the police confiscate from hydro grow systems and give them. For the most part, they like the crouton sized pieces. They are put with fibers vertically NOT horizontally so they drain and don't retain nearly as much water.


Yeah, those are the mini-cubes. I was going to actually start experimenting with it, and some of my pleuros, this week. 


Maybe I'm just lazy, but I really love any medium that doesn't break down over time. It just seems to solve so many issues


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> Yeah, those are the mini-cubes. I was going to actually start experimenting with it, and some of my pleuros, this week.
> 
> Maybe I'm just lazy, but I really love any medium that doesn't break down over time. It just seems to solve so many issues


Ah, by mini-cubes I thought you meant the 2" or so seedling starter cubes with the planting holes in the middle. I think frogparty has it right.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I was just there yesterday, and I talk to Doug a lot about their set up. Hes the man to talk to about beneficial insects to control pests, and he's given me so many awesome plant cuttings too! Love that greenhouse!!!!! Thers a ton of awesome stuff in bloom there right now too, lots of Vandaceous stuff, giant Aristolochea, Dendrobium spectabilis, etc.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Washington seems to have some really beneficial climate characteristics, when it comes to things like Nepenthes and many Orchids


Can you guys get away with growing outside, year round?


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Washington has two pretty distinct climate zones: the Cascade range bisects the state vertically right down the middle. The moisture and clouds and rain coming off the Pacific Ocean usually fall on the western side of the state (which is what most people think of when they think of WA)...and they usually drop most of their moisture by the time they crest the Cascades. The eastern side of the state, where I reside, is marked more by high desert and Ponderosa scrub: hot dry summers and cold snowy winters. My USDA zone is 5, so I'm forced to grow most things in glass boxes and Wardian cases.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

too cold here in the winter for outdoor orchid growing. we got down to 10 degrees this winter. pretty lousy. And we won't see 75 degree weather here till June or July


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

frogparty said:


> too cold here in the winter for outdoor orchid growing. we got down to 10 degrees this winter. pretty lousy. And we won't see 75 degree weather here till June or July


My view has probably been shaped by the fact that I always seem to make it to the region in early fall and late spring. And though rainy, I always loved the weather

PS Oddly enough, the last time I was there I literally spent all my time in the stumbling monk and an abandoned train tunnel


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

oh the stumbling monk. what a magical place


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

frogparty said:


> oh the stumbling monk. what a magical place


aptly named, as well


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Just a quick update on the project: because I don't have automatic misters, the cement panels weren't staying wet enough for moss to begin growing and establish, and the roots of the aroids at the bottom didn't seem to really adhere to the surface. I imagine if I hooked up a drip wall or had more frequent misting, it might be another story.

Earlier this afternoon as I walked by the tank, I impulsively pulled the concrete panels out...which wasn't a simple job as I didn't want to remove the various pieces of wood or disrupt the plantings too much. I then mixed up a quick back of bentonite/peat/Turface/sphagnum and put some on the back acrylic panels. I think this will be more conducive for plant growth in this application. Hopefully it won't dry out too much, but time will tell.

I know I said in the beginning this would remain frog-free...but I'm beginning to rethink that. It's such a large amount of space...


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Yesterday I moved the case into my studio/frog room. It's previous location was in an unheated grange hall, and with the HO T5 fixture and warm temperatures, it was already getting too warm inside the case and would only get warmer as the summer progressed.

As I mentioned before, I have removed the concrete backer boards and am installing a background of bentonite/peat:


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Looks great man. Too bad that backer board didn't work out. I think I'd find it hard to keep frogs out of there myself.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Looks nice man, I was actually looking at this post the other day. I think it looks much improved with the clay.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

One of these days I'll have a viv big enough for the imperial vreiseas... one of these days.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Ron,

The case is looking good. You know, the victorians LOVED their Nepenthes, and I can see a nice specimen taking hold in there.

Take care, Richard.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Richard, just this afternoon I was considering a couple specimens that I would like to put in there. However, I am reconsidering the "no frogs" policy I initially instituted on this project. If I put New World frogs in there, even if they did remain safe from the Nepenthes, seeing them mixed with such obvious Old World plants might just drive me crazy. Aesthetically anyway.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Ah, I'm glad I don't suffer from that particular malady! (remember, the Earth is a single biosphere). Perhaps you could add some sweet Heliamphora in a little bog area. I think some of the primary crosses that are around now are a bit easier to grow.

Richard.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

That looks wonderful Ron. That big brom is especially nice. What is that long-petioled plant just below the large brom on the main branch?


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

remember everybody, just cause ron can fit in the tank, doesnt mean its huge  haha, just kidding ron.

very nice! i really like the background. perhaps you could find one of the south asian species of frogs to work with in there.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

hydrophyte said:


> That looks wonderful Ron. That big brom is especially nice. What is that long-petioled plant just below the large brom on the main branch?


Thanks, Devin. That is an Anthurium species of some sort...I don't remember which one. I'll see if I still have the tag sitting in a drawer or jar somewhere.



> ...perhaps you could find one of the south asian species of frogs to work with in there.


Actually, I originally wanted to have a few _A. moreletti_ in here...but some sort of Rhacophorid would be great as well. However, given that the case is now in the house, I would prefer to stick with something diurnal.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

skylsdale said:


> Actually, I originally wanted to have a few _A. moreletti_ in here...but some sort of Rhacophorid would be great as well. However, given that the case is now in the house, I would prefer to stick with something diurnal.


a few things were discussed here but theres not a whole lot of info...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/other-frogs/63083-southeast-asian-ranids.html


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