# Building a frog barn



## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

So I am planning on building a frog barn at the back of our property. Still need to jump through hoops with the township, but it should be ok since most houses on my block have a barn. Talked to an Amish builder who can have a crew build on site for a very reasonable rate. Anyway, I am planning on it being roughly 28'x20' and two story. Still trying to decide if I should go for a lean to greenhouse as well. I doubt I'll be able to have plumbing so plan to fill a rain bucket or similar from a hose and age it, filter it, whatever is needed. I'm going to have misting systems, drains, 160+ Sherman tanks, and possibly LED. 

I will have a generator, ac units, heaters and alarm system monitoring temps. I plan on no windows and extra insulation. I'm looking for ideas on cooling and heating options, generator types and alarms. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also looking for things I may not have considered.


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## shrum (Dec 1, 2008)

Glad to see this finally coming together for you good luck and let me know if you ever need any help with anything.....


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

How in the world are you going to fit 160 of these in a barn


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## my_shed (Feb 8, 2013)

Dragonfish said:


> How in the world are you going to fit 160 of these in a barn


Exactly what ran through my mind!

edit: this sounds amazing, keep us posted


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

Go to builditsolar.com and learn about DIY solar hot water heating/storage/space heating. 

Lots of thick insulation in the building envelope using masonry and styrofoam will help moderate both heating and cooling.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Great site, thanks.



frograck said:


> Go to builditsolar.com and learn about DIY solar hot water heating/storage/space heating.
> 
> Lots of thick insulation in the building envelope using masonry and styrofoam will help moderate both heating and cooling.


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## Defica (Mar 5, 2013)

Check out straw bale walls/ construction. Requires a slightly larger building footprint, but the insulation factor is well worth it. Also, might as well just go for a geothermal heating and cooling system. I mean, if you're building a frog barn you might as well go all out, right?


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

You know Jeremy...............most of us here will work for frogs


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Check out the mitsubishi units they +eat and cool and they dont take much electricity compared to other systems and for a generator your going to need something large tey generac. You can get them to run oof of many things depending on what you want......also yes alit of us will work for frogs.


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## Kalakole (Jun 30, 2011)

Will work for frogs....

But have any mire details on the tanks? Would love to see some!


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Defica said:


> Check out straw bale walls/ construction. Requires a slightly larger building footprint, but the insulation factor is well worth it. Also, might as well just go for a geothermal heating and cooling system. I mean, if you're building a frog barn you might as well go all out, right?


I would love to go all out, but my wife is being extremely kind going this far with me. I like the idea of hay in Arizona, where I have seen it, but it gets so wet here at times and I want to limit my risk of mould.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

I have had a lot of frogger friends offer to help with building the building. I am planning on building all my own shelving and I am sure I will call on some of you to help with that, painting, sealing, etc. If there any forgers in the area who are electricians or plumbers, I'd love to get some input when the time comes.

The tanks I am going to be getting for now are 15" cubes and 18" cubes (I think) They will be front opening, with Chris' vent design and his custom tracks that actually fit the doors and slide very smooth and effortless. No need for door pulls!


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## JohnVI (May 1, 2013)

I worked with a master electrician for 5years..

Will reply with any feedback if it helps, when the time comes.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

JeremyHuff said:


> I doubt I'll be able to have plumbing so plan to fill a rain bucket or similar from a hose and age it, filter it, whatever is needed.


Hi Jeremy,

Why is water an issue? Can you not tie into the main line coming into the house and run it to the barn, underground? It would be well worth it if allowed. Fairly low cost too.


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## kcexotics (Jul 23, 2012)

A lot of the newer pellet stoves have a battery/solar kit you can buy for them.Much cheaper than running a generator and an electric heater.I bought one last fall,it's the next best thing to canned tomatoes.I spent $600 heating my house last winter,thats less than two of my gas bills usually run in the winter.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

I wish you the best of luck sir.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

cant wait to see this kick ass barn!


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## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

kcexotics said:


> A lot of the newer pellet stoves have a battery/solar kit you can buy for them.Much cheaper than running a generator and an electric heater.I bought one last fall,it's the next best thing to canned tomatoes.I spent $600 heating my house last winter,thats less than two of my gas bills usually run in the winter.


although youd still have have to figure out a backup system for cooling in the summer

I'd probably go with a generac natural gas generator and an ac/heat pump setup


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Jeremy,

Having worked long term caring for a large amphibian collection I'm going to make a few suggestions... 

1) easy access to lighting and plugs.... It really sucks when you have to break down enclosures to remove and replace a lighting fixture since the enclosures are too heavy to simply lift out of the way... 

2) clear and easy access under the bottom of the shelves to make it easy for what ever has rolled, hopped, or scurried below the tanks to be easily recovered... If possible put the shelving on wheels to allow for them to be rolled out from the wall to allow access to behind the enclosures..... 

3) ready access to water.... Carrying enclosures and other supplies to another area for cleaning, disinfection gets old really really fast (particularly if you have to do it outside in the cold with cold water).... as does having to carry water or push large containers of water from one location to another (dry spells or no rain only snow or barrel freezes). If you really can't get water run to the location, make sure you put a path into place that will allow you to bring water from the house on a cart or barrels on a dolly... (consider how you will need to get the container over the threshold or into the building if it snows). 

4) trash removal. If you have to hand carry bags full of trash from the building, it can make you disgruntled.... a path that you can push a hand cart along for trashremoval is a big help. Make sure the path can be shoveled or use a snow blower on it. Having to wait until a thaw to take out the trash can really take up space. Gravel paths can be hard to navigate with a hand cart. 

5) make sure the floor slopes to the drain. This makes it easier to clean up the floor as you can wash it down and you don't have to worry about puddles. 

6) separate quarantine room that you don't have to pass through to get to the collection so you aren't tracking things from it, to the regular collection. Use a foot bath outside the quarantine room... 

On a separate note, have you considered a green roof to help with the temperatures? It is a good insulator from heat and cold. 

Ed


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Hi Ed

Thanks for the suggestions. A few I thought about already. I plan on having all electric outlets at the ceiling edge for easy access. Also will have a big enough clearing at the bottom to catch escaped frogs and sweep. I am going to have easy access to lights by having a hinged flap in front to access them. Wheels worry me a bit, but I'll give it some thought. 

For quarantine I plan on having stuff in my house basement. Temps there stay constant all year. 

Garbage won't be a big deal. I can always use a wheel barrel to move heavy stuff. Water is an issue. I really want it there and will look into options. 
Also need to decide which gecko species to have free range eating escaped bugs


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

This may help you, Jeremy.

Adding Plumbing To Studio | Workshop Plumbing Additions | HouseLogic.

If you can do the digging yourself, you save a *ton* of money. I dug a 30 foot trench with a few buddies in 3 hours flat. That was 3' down and chances are your water will have to be 4' down. Hopefully you don't have hard clay.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Hey Jeremy,You know the alarm is covered if you want to go that route.It can monitor for high or low temps,smoke ,co2 or pretty much whatever you want to do.


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## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

If I was closer I would
Help with the electrical and plumbing sadly I'm in Orange County. Make sure you go to a
Pro for your electrical, plumbing can be done by anyone really, if you go copper make sure you practice your soldering and hydro test it before making it live I really wish I could be a part of this sounds cool


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Although the site of 160 Vivs in a dedicated "barn" will be a site to behold, I dont envy the man that has to build, hardscape and plant 160 tanks. That makes building the barn, plumbing and electrical the "easy" part. Have fun with it. And I'm sure I speak for all when I say, when you get started, we want to see a build thread


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh my gosh...I just found this and I am soooo envious!
Combining a barn with frogs...what more could you ask for? That is so cool!
Good luck with it, Jeremy! I really look forward to the finished pics!


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Barn + frogs thats my idea of a frog farm.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

So are you trying to keep the heat and humidity in the barn at a level the frogs will like? IE I guess I imagine a dedicated place like this set up so the whole barn is basically the humid and temp regulated so that the tanks only need lighting. 

I really think you should spring for a transparent side to allow you to keep a green house like setup. Would even be cool to have like a feral population of pumilio or something.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Pubfiction said:


> So are you trying to keep the heat and humidity in the barn at a level the frogs will like? IE I guess I imagine a dedicated place like this set up so the whole barn is basically the humid and temp regulated so that the tanks only need lighting.
> 
> I really think you should spring for a transparent side to allow you to keep a green house like setup. Would even be cool to have like a feral population of pumilio or something.


I want temps to be stabilized. Humidity I am not worried about since I'll have auto misting. If I can swing it, I'll have a small greenhouse against the outside. I don't want windows in the barn for two reasons, I don't want neighbors seeing inside and I want as much wall space for racks as possible


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Yeah no need to have them call the cops because of the glowing barn


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogfreak said:


> This may help you, Jeremy.
> 
> Adding Plumbing To Studio | Workshop Plumbing Additions | HouseLogic.
> 
> If you can do the digging yourself, you save a *ton* of money. I dug a 30 foot trench with a few buddies in 3 hours flat. That was 3' down and chances are your water will have to be 4' down. Hopefully you don't have hard clay.


My suggestion would be to rent the proper size ditch witch (Trenchers | Ditch Witch) as this can make a tedious job go very quickly... In a pinch a rototiller can be used to loosen the soil to make it easier to remove. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JeremyHuff said:


> Hi Ed
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions. A few I thought about already. I plan on having all electric outlets at the ceiling edge for easy access. Also will have a big enough clearing at the bottom to catch escaped frogs and sweep. I am going to have easy access to lights by having a hinged flap in front to access them. Wheels worry me a bit, but I'll give it some thought.


Keep in mind what it would be like having to fish a frog out from behind a series of tanks.... There is going to be a gap between the back of the tank and the wall and the frog you don't want to lose the least will inevitably get back there and taunt you...... Wheels are the easiest way to deal with this (and all of the webs, dust etc that end up back behind the tanks) but you can probably think of another option. In 19 years, I've cursed more than once having to try and get to a frog or other animal that got behind something...

Ed


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## JohnVI (May 1, 2013)

Just had an idea

I have a business I started doing this, and while not able to formally do this due to the distance, wanted to suggest it.

Get yourself a HD Wireless IP camera. Get a link through dyndns and you can globally share your frog collection via the web. Cool huh...

Get a wireless PTZ camera, and highlight your frog of the week...


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Frogs are much better than scorpions right? Hahaha. 

Sounds like its gonna be great! Shouldn't be too hard to sneak in a backup propane generator


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

stevenhman said:


> Frogs are much better than scorpions right? Hahaha.
> 
> Sounds like its gonna be great! Shouldn't be too hard to sneak in a backup propane generator


They are certainly more enjoyable, but collecting scorpions is more fun.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

JeremyHuff said:


> They are certainly more enjoyable, but collecting scorpions is more fun.


And very painful....


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

About time Jeremy.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

JeremyHuff said:


> They are certainly more enjoyable, but collecting scorpions is more fun.


Didn't see you had already mentioned a generator, I dunno how I missed that one!

I got to do some scorpion hunting in Iraq some years ago, only found some teeny solifugids. IIRC there's been some interesting reclassifications/discoveries in _Centruroides_ relatively recently. They do take up a lot less room too.


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## Dart girl (Sep 25, 2013)

Ed said:


> Keep in mind what it would be like having to fish a frog out from behind a series of tanks.... There is going to be a gap between the back of the tank and the wall and the frog you don't want to lose the least will inevitably get back there and taunt you...... Wheels are the easiest way to deal with this (and all of the webs, dust etc that end up back behind the tanks) but you can probably think of another option. In 19 years, I've cursed more than once having to try and get to a frog or other animal that got behind something...
> 
> Ed


Wheels are a necessessity. Moving racks to clean with out them is horrible 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

So things have changed a bit. I was getting frustrated with the zoning officer so decided to rent a space. Just signed the lease and got the keys. The building is 1700 sq ft. With three large rooms. It is about 10 min from my house. I will post pics soon and I am sure will have questions as I go.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

so next frog meet at the frog warehouse in December 2013 right Jeremy


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Best of luck with it...we'd like to share with you the progress...and hopefully you have 4 wheel drive for those winter days in NJ! By the way...the "mini-splits" that Mitsubishi sells are great for AC...but not really that much for heat..I'm remodling a kitchen and investigated that as a possibility...but since they are installed high on a wall...the heat tends to stay up there, instead of falling the way cold air does with the AC...and they aren't cheap either...The backup electric is the critical part...and having the Electrician put in the bypass from the panel to be able to hook up a generator would be a good investment..Hopefully your landlord would let you do that...


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

So things are moving along, but not at the rate I would like (would welcome some help from local froggers 

I want to paint the rooms. Any suggestions on types of paint? I really don't know that the outside humidity is going to be high, but something that is anti-mold would be best. I haven't decided on what to do with the floors. They are wood. I can either paint or get some sort of rubber flooring. 

I am also struggling with what to do about heat. I like mini-splits, but they are so expensive. In one room there is a big propane heater hanging from the ceiling. I assume it works but don't have a propane tank installed so testing it is a problem. I would rather rip it out too give me the extra room for tanks. I do t believe there is easy access to natural gas. This pretty much leaves me with electric. I would love to hear thoughts on good models that are energy efficient. Basically I need to heat a 18'x17' room, a 16'x18' room and a 22'x18' room (don't plan on tackling this room until spring). Each room will be closed off and well insulated. 

I'm also looking for ideas on good options for generators. Gas or propane? What size? If I get gas, is there a brand with a really big tank for long run time?

Lastly, looking for a monitor to let me know remotely if the power goes out or temperature spikes. What options are out there?

I will take pics in the next day or two of the rooms. 

Thanks all.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Killz is a great paint/primer if you're expecting mold.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I think you would be very safe to treat everything as though it is an exterior surface of the house. An exterior paint etc... Stick with high gloss as it is easier to clean and more durable. Also oil based would be better than latex if available. Another option would be just to do it all up in drylock. The floor covering could be anything that is bathroom / kitchen safe.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Pubfiction said:


> I think you would be very safe to treat everything as though it is an exterior surface of the house. An exterior paint etc... Stick with high gloss as it is easier to clean and more durable. Also oil based would be better than latex if available. Another option would be just to do it all up in drylock. The floor covering could be anything that is bathroom / kitchen safe.


Good info, but I would caution against using oil based paint. It is better than water based (not by much anymore) but will be banned soon enough. It's already banned here and if you wanted to repaint over oil you would have to prime it, before applying water based paint.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Did you ever get a chance to find out the model alarm?Pm me about the temp sensors.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Maybe drylock for interior painting? If not then maybe the paint they use in bathrooms which is mold resistant. 


Ill look around for a generator, you can get one which uses diesel/mogas and they make propane adapters. Check out milsurplus auctions for generators. They can be multifuel (diesel, mogas, kero) iirc.


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