# culturing Lesser Wax Worms



## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

I seem to be fairly inept at using Dendroboard’s search.  I’ve read what I could find about culturing lesser wax worms but I still have a few questions.

1.)What are people using for home made mediums? Recipes please.
2.)What are people using for lids for their containers? I don’t want escapees.


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## Guest (May 5, 2006)

I haven't cultured them... but was also thinking about it and found this recipe and instructions on a different website:

http://www.chameleonsdish.com/insects/waxworms.htm

I especially like the little chameleon eye that pops up in front of the address...


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

I wonder if they would do well in a 2.5 with a glass lid?


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

If you want wax worms, go with meal moths. They're smaller than full grown lessers and much easier to remove from the culture. Fly culture cups are the easiest size. Ventilation is important, use drilled lids with nylon cloth or coffee filters (If left hungry the worms will eat the filter).
I make my medium from whole ingredients (No pests when not pre-ground), equal parts ground: wheat, white corn, rice, oats, buckwheat, flax, bee pollen, soy bean (there's more, but...), Some people say to use glycerin, for what reason other than to make things fatter, I can't say. I don't use it and they frogs get more nutrition without the excess calories (although I might recommend it for bulking up females that have just been taken out of a breeding cycle). I don't pre mix my cultures with honey, I first add my dry, then pour the honey over it (eye balling it), always better to leave at least a small portion of the culture dry, if not half or so. I wait a day or so to settle if I'm unsure of the ratio and add more if needed. I usually add mature worms/cocoons rather than the moths to start a new, as the moths stick easier to the honey and the worms are easier to handle. If I need a quicker culture I sprinkle/layer some powdered algea on the top of the prepaired media (The worms seem to prefer this to any other food) and then add the moths. Wax paper balls put in the containers is probably the easiest way to start another culture, as these can be transfered after the eggs are laid to a fresh container. 

It is possible to culture waxies in a completely dry media, like flour beetles, without honey/water/glycerin mix and with much slower results.

Make sure of what you use when screening the tops, newly hatched worms are smaller and much thinner than a mite. The moths can also start there own culture(s) out of your consumables if set free in the house. Make sure you know what you might be dealing with later, take any and all precautions.


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## AJ_Cann (Oct 6, 2004)

Info at:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.cann/ ... moths.html

They need quite a lot of ventilation or the culture will grow mold and crash.


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## Guest (May 8, 2006)

I use:
4 oz glycerin
1/4 c sugar
1/4 c hot water
1 8oz box baby cereal (oat)
Dissolve glycerin and sugar in hot water. Cool. Pour box of cereal in large bowl. Pour wet solution into dyry very slowly while stirring-it should take about 2 minutes to dribble all the liquid in.

Then I put the media in a plastic mayo jar painted black (on the outside) with a small vent cut in lid (glue very fine mesh over it). Place behind fridge or computer (ideal is 85 degrees). The warmer it is, the faster they'll grow. Once I get 3-4 moths, I put the moths in an identical set up for them to lay eggs. 

I also have some media that I'm feeding out of in a regular Gladware container with no vents. For some reason they've been lasting really long and haven't had any mold yet (but one got a little fermented but I was ready to toss it anyway).

I'd love to find an easier way to feed these things out though. I pick through the media on a plate with chopsticks. Takes forever...


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

stchupa said:


> If you want wax worms, go with meal moths. They're smaller than full grown lessers and much easier to remove from the culture. Fly culture cups are the easiest size. Ventilation is important, use drilled lids with nylon cloth or coffee filters (If left hungry the worms will eat the filter).
> I make my medium from whole ingredients (No pests when not pre-ground), equal parts ground: wheat, white corn, rice, oats, buckwheat, flax, bee pollen, soy bean (there's more, but...), Some people say to use glycerin, for what reason other than to make things fatter, I can't say. I don't use it and they frogs get more nutrition without the excess calories (although I might recommend it for bulking up females that have just been taken out of a breeding cycle). I don't pre mix my cultures with honey, I first add my dry, then pour the honey over it (eye balling it), always better to leave at least a small portion of the culture dry, if not half or so. I wait a day or so to settle if I'm unsure of the ratio and add more if needed. I usually add mature worms/cocoons rather than the moths to start a new, as the moths stick easier to the honey and the worms are easier to handle. If I need a quicker culture I sprinkle/layer some powdered algea on the top of the prepaired media (The worms seem to prefer this to any other food) and then add the moths. Wax paper balls put in the containers is probably the easiest way to start another culture, as these can be transfered after the eggs are laid to a fresh container.
> 
> It is possible to culture waxies in a completely dry media, like flour beetles, without honey/water/glycerin mix and with much slower results.
> ...


Lessers are rather smaller than Meal Moths, actually.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "I make my medium from whole ingredients (No pests when not pre-ground), equal parts ground: wheat, white corn, rice, oats, buckwheat, flax, bee pollen, soy bean (there's more, but...)," endsnip

Grain mites are alway present whether it is preground or not unless sterilized and it is quite easy to find grain weevils in whole grains... 


snip "Some people say to use glycerin, for what reason other than to make things fatter, I can't say. I don't use it and they frogs get more nutrition without the excess calories (although I might recommend it for bulking up females that have just been taken out of a breeding cycle)." endsnip

How are you getting extra nutrition without extra calories? If you are supplying protein, or carbohydrates in excess of the frog's needs then you are supplying extra calories (not including fat). 
Have you had a nutritional analysis done to cofirm that you have modified the nutritonal profile of the moth or its larva? 

If you are referring to extra minerals then this often does not work to any appreciable extent although it can be accomplished (but if you are cuturing them in it, it isn't happening to any real extent as other wise the cultures would do very poorly as Ca in amounts sufficient to adjust the Ca ratio typically begins to kill the inverts it is fed to after about 72 hours). 

Ed


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

I'd love to find an easier way to feed these things out though. I pick through the media on a plate with chopsticks. Takes forever...[/quote]

If you happen to read the full thread, I mentioned that the indian meal moths are much easier to retreive because when mature they stay on the sides of the culture and can be brushed out with great ease. Also the moths are are about half the size of lessers. Adult thumbs are able to eat them, and love the chase.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Ed said:


> Grain mites are alway present whether it is preground or not unless sterilized and it is quite easy to find grain weevils in whole grains...
> 
> 
> How are you getting extra nutrition without extra calories? If you are supplying protein, or carbohydrates in excess of the frog's needs then you are supplying extra calories (not including fat).
> ...


Im not entirely sure of what can be learned through the use of contradiction, but if you happen to find out what, hit me up. All I should have to say is consider IT all. But for the sake of everyone else, I'll give a chance to explain. 
Only when a seed has been pulverized/damaged will grain mites have the opportunity to colonize. Grain mites are present *everywhere*, not so much, if any in properly dried whole seed. Mites need an adequate surface area-volume/mass ratio to aquire the condensative moisture they need to sustain a certain population # (larger surface area comparative to given volume =more moisture=more mites[meal]). Seed is impermeable to water for the dormant period (period without consistant moisture to germinate, and usually until a day or more after this contact), and will not accumulate/ harbor any condensation if properly ventilated/stored. All I have to do is wash, rinse and dry, I've never had a mite infestation large or small in any cultures fly/wax/bettle/crick. Ive never sterilized/cooked the seed in any way. Weevils need the oppisite conditions of mites, the seed must remain hole, the weevils create a penetration and larvae will most likely be unable to develope without this protection in meal. I would love some grain weevles but never seen any.
As for the glycerin.......bla bla bla. Same concept as with Mickey D's/fast food, junk food or what have you "crap" it's all filler. People have to eat more to receive their DNV and as a byproduct of eating all of what you do/don't need, you accumilate all the extra fat you consume. 
I'm able to give extra nutrition by being able to feed more worms more often without the fat ass side effect, giving more variation more equally. I use the *common sense* method of comparison to other cultures I have used in the past to distinguish what's being deprived of, what are the additives not needed, and what's needed to fix any deprivation noticed. What you feed your waxies effects their motivation, the ones on a healthier diet are much quicker, somewhat darker (more yellow), and produce a little faster. I havent modified anything nor did I state such a notion, I did increase the nutritional potential needed to make them healtheir and more worth feeding. 
Everything passes that the creature was incapable of absorbing and didn't need extra of within that time frame (oh, I think they call it poop these days), with fat/caloric/carb/protein being the exception.
Insectivorous carnivours increase in protien is not directly effected in the conversion process unless ambition becomes stunted, most often the frogs utilize it in growth and obtain a larger structure, or/and produce more offspring.


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