# Boards position on Hybridization?



## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

As per the previous post / posts the discussion tends to go in circles. So as I asked before would someone answer............what is the boards official and off the record response to hybridization.
It seemed to me that it should be discouraged at all costs. The recent post seems to go against this belief. So would someone please inform the rest of us masses what the frog communities position is so we that the run on threads can come to an end. Allowed? If so, under what circumstances? and why?


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## Squash713 (Feb 18, 2007)

Not an "official position," but there's a sticky on mixing in the caresheets, with links that discuss the hybridization issue:
care-sheets/topic14178.html


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

how about a poll? How many members have hybrids and those who do not. This would be just a number, and no personal messages to those who members, but a number would be informative.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i am not against anything that occurs in nature, but one shoudl not hybidize animals in captivity just to see what develops.


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## DF20 (Jul 7, 2007)

I am strongly agaisnt censoring different or not popular opinion based on your own bias. If you dont believe in what someone thinks about hybridization, then ignore what they have to say and dont give them any attention. The more you argue with people about it the more it will be an issure. Ignore their statements, and the people will go away, because they are not recieving their desired attention... if they have read a couple threads on hybrids on this site, they already know the response and stance Dendro has on the issue...


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

Censorship? since when has the stance against hybrids turned into censorship. Then maybe we need a commandment - though shall not hybridize? Obvious the issue cannot be ignored, there were hybrid eggs posted in the previous thread.


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## DF20 (Jul 7, 2007)

"So would someone please inform the rest of us masses what the frog communities position is so we that the run on threads can come to an end. Allowed? If so, under what circumstances? and why?"

keyword "allowed?"


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I think the boards position should be at least against producing hybrids for fun and sale for profit. Experiments and science are not lumped in w/ that. If a hobbyist crosses something and documents and destroys them humanely it might lead to discoveries of some of these morphs being intergrades of 2 morphs that broke off from the originals populations. 
The problems w/ hybridization is that we don`t have a definition of our "morphs". To list what can be crossed, when and why. that could be the subject of a book of different scenerios of crossing as we find out where the "boundaries" if there is such a thing of the populations we have. 
The other problem is that this opens the door for unscientific crosses and people who aren`t qualified to know what they are seeing doing the work. Someone working on a masters or PhD who has a specific question and plotted a plan to finding a possible answer. If one morph is resistant to a disease, if the lines of a morph being bred in captivity bottleneck too much and there is an adjacent population closely related and we see genetic problems w/ said morph, etc.etc..
Darklands/Cauchero Giant orange/regina ,almirante/man creek population. Are the differences so that we`re linebreeding instead of mixing slightly different looking animals and taking away diversity of a population. Are we splitting so that we`re bottlenecking genes that would naturally flow between morphs. If we lump morphs into populations we automatically increase the gene pool we`re working w/ on said morph/population.
Stances and beliefs are dangerous when we`re in the infancy of starting to understand the dynamics of populations.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

It seems to me that "the board" should not have an official position on the subject. If I'm not mistaken, DB was developed to serve the hobby through open discussion and exchange of ideas. Taking official positions on issues like hybrids seems counter to fostering open exchange. On the other hand "the hobby" I think has spoken very clearly on this subject which is one of the major reasons why I am proud to be a member of this hobby. But we should remember that "the hobby" is a rather amorphous concept which is not organized. People can participate in "the hobby" while persuing a number of different goals and objectives. There are no stated goals and objectives for "the hobby" and there is no organization to enforce preferred behaviors thank goodness. In contrast, a subset of "the hobby" has organized as the Amphibian Steward Network which is a very different story. ASN does have very specific goals and objectives which are clearly stated. People who join the ASN are, in effect, pledging to support those goals and objectives. And those goals preclude supporting hybridization or selective breeding.

I think it is important to remember that we operate in a free and open society where differences of opinion are permitted. It seems rather futile to attempt to dictate the opinions and actions of others when those making the decisions have no authority to enforce them. I think it is great that so many people passionately discourage designer breeding in the hobby and I've probably done as much of this as anyone. But in my mind, setting official positions on controversial subjects crosses a line that I'm uncomfortable with. I think it is much better for those of us who feel passionately about this issue to organize under ASN to protect ourselves from those who will inevitably produce hybrids and designer frogs regardless of any policy statement decreed by DB or any other authority in the hobby.


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

> It seems rather futile to attempt to dictate the opinions and actions of others when those making the decisions have no authority to enforce them.


Yes there are no Dendroboard police. It is the honor system. In the end the market will determine what does happen. We just have a unique opportunity to set a precedent regarding the production and introduction of these organisms within the community. There are Spanish sites in which members openly flaunt their hybrids. I would believe as a general rule what do we, as community members want to see as the future of our community. While statistically this is a volunteer sample and not random all a member need do is click yes/no and is anonymous. Yes there are hybrids out there and if hybrids are eventually offered on the open market the slippery slope will have no turning back in my opinion.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DF20 said:


> I am strongly agaisnt censoring different or not popular opinion based on your own bias. If you dont believe in what someone thinks about hybridization, then ignore what they have to say and dont give them any attention. The more you argue with people about it the more it will be an issure. Ignore their statements, and the people will go away, because they are not recieving their desired attention... if they have read a couple threads on hybrids on this site, they already know the response and stance Dendro has on the issue...


There is a difference between a scientific documented experiment with a decided end game (like what to do with the offspring) and people hybridizing on a whim. 
To quote from my last post in the hybrid poll In the last 15 years different morphs and species have come very close to virtual extinction within the captive population. The hobby has not been able to show that it can keep the populations of the frogs currently in the hobby as true species or morphs without the additional pressure of hybrids and the artificial integradation of the different seperate color morphs. 
If the hobby had shown itself able to sustain the frogs then it would be a different story. For those who are relative new comers to this hobby (and I'm talking about you who have less than 10 years in the hobby), you may not remember this occuring with E. tricolor/anthyoni but if you pay attention you should be able to see it currently happening with some of the D. tinctorius and D. auratus morphs. Given that the current number of people in the hobby have not been able to show the ability to sustain the current species, it is troubling to say the least when people have the idea that hybrids between species or morphs is harmless to the hobby overall. It takes some determination to ignore both the past and the present."endquote.


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