# Vietnamese mossy frog red eye, infection?



## ChelleB (Apr 30, 2020)

We have 6 Vietnamese Mossy Frogs that we aquired from a breeder and we've had for over a year with no problems. I just found one with a cloudy eye and a second one's eye is red and cloudy.

The temperature is kept around 72° and drops a little lower at night. We have a zoomed uvb light and a screen top with a fan that moves the air. We have a small ceramic heat lamp that warms a ledge in the top right hand corner. The habitat is a paludarium with live plants and running water but with dry areas and alot of hides. 
We do have a few day geckos with them which have not been aggressive and stay toward the top of the paludarium while the frogs stay to the middle and bottom. We have not noticed any unusual behavior or loss of appetite. 
Other than Seachem Prime, Almond leaf, and occasionally white vinegar to clean the front glass (I only use a little and dry it off then keep the doors open with the fan on) we don't use any other cleaners or chemicals.

They get a variety of foods including dubia roach, red runner roach, and earthworm. I dust the roaches with repcal and multivite 1 to 2x.

Vet clinics are closed today and I dont think any see amphibians. Does anyone have any advice or know what could be happening and treatments. Thank you


----------



## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

ChelleB said:


> We have 6 Vietnamese Mossy Frogs that we aquired from a breeder and we've had for over a year with no problems. I just found one with a cloudy eye and a second one's eye is red and cloudy.
> 
> The temperature is kept around 72° and drops a little lower at night. We have a zoomed uvb light and a screen top with a fan that moves the air. We have a small ceramic heat lamp that warms a ledge in the top right hand corner. The habitat is a paludarium with live plants and running water but with dry areas and alot of hides.
> We do have a few day geckos with them which have not been aggressive and stay toward the top of the paludarium while the frogs stay to the middle and bottom. We have not noticed any unusual behavior or loss of appetite.
> ...


All right... The eye looks like a burn possibly from the UVB or Heat lamp. UVB should not be used with nocturnal frogs please remove it, the Heat Lamp and the geckos. Repcal and multivite are both subpar supplements for frogs, consult this thread > supplementation reasons and recommendations. While I'm happy to see another Theloderma keeper, you definitely need to make some changes...


----------



## solidsnake (Jun 3, 2014)

Although not directly related to the current situation; how large is the enclosure? That seems like a lot of livestock.


----------



## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

solidsnake said:


> Although not directly related to the current situation; how large is the enclosure? That seems like a lot of livestock.


The size of the paludarium is fine for the number of frogs being kept... but the geckos need to be removed.


----------



## ChelleB (Apr 30, 2020)

I appreciate the responses. There are plenty of hides like hollow logs and ledges that block the light for the frogs. They hide during the day and are active at night. The only reason they are out in the picture is because I needed to look at all of them since I found 2 with eye problems. I'll change the vitamins for them.
The geckos have not been aggressive and stay up top but I'll see about another habitat for them. The size of the habitat compared to the frogs is obvious in the pictures and they dont even use all the space. In fact they all have their own favorite areas to hang out. 

I'll work on all of the recommendations but does anyone have any treatment options for their eyes? I really want to treat it before it gets worse while I also work on the cause. Thanks


----------



## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

ChelleB said:


> I appreciate the responses. There are plenty of hides like hollow logs and ledges that block the light for the frogs. They hide during the day and are active at night. The only reason they are out in the picture is because I needed to look at all of them since I found 2 with eye problems. I'll change the vitamins for them.
> The geckos have not been aggressive and stay up top but I'll see about another habitat for them. The size of the habitat compared to the frogs is obvious in the pictures and they dont even use all the space. In fact they all have their own favorite areas to hang out.
> 
> I'll work on all of the recommendations but does anyone have any treatment options for their eyes? I really want to treat it before it gets worse while I also work on the cause. Thanks


And you will remove the UVB and Heat lamps? The most likely cause of the damaged frog eyes? Aggressiveness from the geckos is not the problem, it's the UVB and Heat the geckos need that are incompatible with the frogs. 

Whether or not the frogs eyes will recover will depend on the depth of the burn, if its superficial and only effects the surface of the skin then it will probably go away after a few sheds, if its deeper than the damage is irreparable.


----------



## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

It's already been pointed out that this tank isn't really suitable for day geckos or frogs so im not going to labour that point other than to say that I agree. As far as care for the eyes goes while they recover I'd make sure that the water quality is absolutely perfect with regular small water changes. Some blackwater extract in the water might have useful antimicrobial properties while they heal too.


----------



## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

Louis said:


> It's already been pointed out that this tank isn't really suitable for day geckos or frogs so im not going to labour that point other than to say that I agree. As far as care for the eyes goes while they recover I'd make sure that the water quality is absolutely perfect with regular small water changes. Some blackwater extract in the water might have useful antimicrobial properties while they heal too.


Be careful with water quality for mossy frogs. They are known to develop problems if the water is too clean.

With regards to the eye, a visit to a vet specialised in herps should definitely be on the agenda if possible. That damaged eye could get infected and if that happens you're more than likely to lose that frog.


----------



## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

ChelleB said:


> In fact they all have their own favorite areas to hang out.


This is not a factual but rather purely interpretation.

It would be more accurate to state that the frogs are forced to individualy occupy certain areas due to the the small space and microclimates one could provided in captivity. Also possible terrioral drifts among themselves and the co-inhabitants have a hughe impact on suitable livingspace for individual animals.

Which is exactly why never combining animas in captivity is highly adviced , not just from an ethical perspective.


Annyway, 
best of luck with the recovery of the frog.
I can also pretty much advice you to follow Johan's suggestions in order to give the animal the best chance and prevent possible future issues.


----------



## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Johanovich said:


> Be careful with water quality for mossy frogs. They are known to develop problems if the water is too clean.


Can you elaborate on this please? what do you mean by "too clean". I'm no expert on mossy frogs by any means but this seems potentially misleading. Do you really just mean that they benefit from tannin rich water with a lower ph?


----------



## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

Yes saying the water should not be "too clean" is misleading, really they should just have some tannins in the water, I shoot for an Iced tea color, for pH I keep my water around 6 to 6.5. so yes more on the acidic side but not by much, this is done mostly to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria that may cause skin infections. So you don't really want actually dirty/putrid water but more like tadpole tea.


----------



## Amphibicast (Jan 15, 2021)

To the OP. Obviously a trip to the vet for a diagnosis and treatment is the best course of action. However, in the mean time the best thing that you can do is to separate the affected frogs into separate enclosures and quarantine/monitor them. Regardless of how and why the injuries happened it’s important to begin some sort of home treatment. A simple ten gallon aquarium with a screen top or plastic container with modified top will do. Fill with about 2 inches of water with tannins added. Indian almond leaf works best in my opinion. (Look for recipes for tadpole tea) Add a simple hide such as a piece of cork bark or tube on an angle and monitor. Keep them in cool spot with reduced non UV lighting. A few pothos cuttings can’t hurt either. Tannin rich water has antimicrobial properties and may facilitate healing. Ideally some husbandry modifications need to be made to the main tank but for the time being separate the frogs and act accordingly.


----------



## Dr. Manhattan (Oct 28, 2016)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Yes saying the water should not be "too clean" is misleading, really they should just have some tannins in the water, I shoot for an Iced tea color, for pH I keep my water around 6 to 6.5. so yes more on the acidic side but not by much, this is done mostly to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria that may cause skin infections. So you don't really want actually dirty/putrid water but more like tadpole tea.



OP, please heed the solid advice being given here. Tinted water that's stained with tannins to keep the pH in the range suggested above, no heat sources, no other herps in there, these guys thrive in the mid 60's to low 70's water and air temp ( in fact mine would only breed during the winter ), try to use LED's if possible for lighting, Repashy Plus and very occasionally the Repashy Vitamin A powder as well, I'm not familiar with Dubia's but mine loved big crickets, and field plankton collected from pesticide free areas. Looks like you have pothos in there, anubias will grow emersed as well if you keep the humidity high. In fact it'll get huge. Good luck and I hope those issues clear up.


----------



## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

Louis said:


> Can you elaborate on this please? what do you mean by "too clean". I'm no expert on mossy frogs by any means but this seems potentially misleading. Do you really just mean that they benefit from tannin rich water with a lower ph?





IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Yes saying the water should not be "too clean" is misleading, really they should just have some tannins in the water, I shoot for an Iced tea color, for pH I keep my water around 6 to 6.5. so yes more on the acidic side but not by much, this is done mostly to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria that may cause skin infections. So you don't really want actually dirty/putrid water but more like tadpole tea.


Yes this was indeed probably a bit too vague on my part. Agreed with adding tannins to the water and keeping pH slightly acidic.


----------

