# What kind of fish can be put in a water feature?



## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

what kind of fish would be safe to put in a water feature in the tank? And what are the dangers or problems that could happen if I put fish in the water feature?


----------



## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

Put a beta fish in there. They will eat all the fruit flies that fall into the water. I have one in my leuc viv.


----------



## grech (Sep 15, 2005)

how deep is the water? any how wide/long will the water feature be?

A number of smaller fish do well in most conditions.

I have kept zebra danios, lampeyes and white cloud minnows without probs in my treefrog tanks before


----------



## oahupdffreak (May 31, 2005)

*Betta*

VTHokie, do you have a pic of your leuc tank with the betta in it? I'd like to build one someday...


----------



## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

well i made a great water feature today in my leuc tank. It is really cool! Its about 3 inches deep, 9 inches long, and 7 inches wide. The only problem is i dont have the exact measurement because its border is a slanted peice of driftwood. I then have a little water fall made with a piece of slate and some stones that flows into it. The driftwood also provides a little cave for the fishes to hide in, if i get any. I was thinking a betta, but wouldnt they attack the frog if it jumps in? I was also thinking the little neon tetras. Would it also be ok to put a tadpole of a different species in?


----------



## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

I still think a betta is the best they are a tougher fish. I dont think a neon would last that long. The betta in my leuc tank doesnt ever mess with the frogs if they fall in, but they pretty much stay out of the water.


----------



## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

yeah, ill probably go with the betta. They come in a lot of colors too, so its not like its a dull fish. Oh yeah, should I get some kind of filter in there if im going to put a fish in? Thanks for all of the advice! Nick


----------



## Ashli (Aug 28, 2005)

betta's only attack males of their own species, not other fish, or frogs. You should be okay. Just make sure the water is warm and clean. YOu shouldn't have a problem, although I just can't imagine using fish..But whatever floats your boat


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

If its a large water feature that is well planted (couple gallons atleast with lots of live plants) you can use various neons and tetras...actually they do really well, even though that water feature no longer has a filter in it. I will add though that since part of the viv was exposed to the water there are alot of tannins in the water which have antibacterial properties as i understand it, so along with the plants filtering the water that might be why my fish do fine without a filter...oh and topping the tank off periodically with clean distilled or filtered water.

If you just want some fish and dont care what kind, you can put some of the feeder guppies into a small feature and they will often survive very well....i had some in a tank that i let go for awhile cuz i was gonna redo it and they survived in very little water with no filtration or food for a very long time....ya i know im mean..but they were just feeders.


----------



## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

well i have about 2 gallons of water in the feature and 4 plants. One is some type of an aquatic vine type thing with big stringy roots. That has already latched onto the log. The 2nd plant is some type of floating lily pad thing. It has like 5 symettrical thick leaves, and floats like a lily pad. It also has a root that is right in the center, that goes pretty deep into the water.


----------



## Ashli (Aug 28, 2005)

Go with a very small group of danios. They're pretty and they are very hardy.


----------



## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

In response to the filter question, with a betta fish you do not need a filter they do not mind the water getting a little dirty.


----------



## Biznatch (Aug 30, 2005)

I don't know where you heard that bettas like dirty water but that isn't true. Just because they store them in tiny cups at pet stores doesn't mean it's ok. Have you even taken a wiff of ammonia? If not go try it. Then imagine being stuck in a small room with the smell of the constantly there and rising slowly. Well when fish poop it produces ammonia in the water and without a filter or constant water changes it will get more toxic. How some of those bettas survive, I don't know. But it's not because they like it. So if you are going to have fish try and find a way to put a filter in there or at minimum do large water changes once a week.


----------



## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

yeah i think i would agree. Well im going to petco in like an hour or two because my mom needs to go to the tile store next door. Im going to get a red betta and im going to try and find some kind of under the gravel filter. Any one have any idea? I do have a drain for the tank, but it is a pain in the ass to empty the tank and then pour new water into it with out going through a million bottles of poland spring...


----------



## Guest (Oct 5, 2005)

*fish*

apparently killie fish do well in vivs because of the soft acidic water.


----------



## Ashli (Aug 28, 2005)

Someone beat me to the betta thing..
So you know (unless you already know this) if you have a filter for your water feature and you add fish your filter is going to have to cycle. As a result you *might* lose your fish. Danios seem to be pretty hardy though, so I wouldn't worry about them too much.

And for a normal aquarium you should do water changes every 2 weeks, so with something much smaller like a water feature you should do it atleast once weekly.

Good luck!


----------



## Biznatch (Aug 30, 2005)

See if you can find a small submersible filter and use that to also power your water feature. It's like a small powerhead with a filter on the intake. With the small amount of water you have and only having 1 betta, there shouldn't be too much of a problem with cycling the tank. As long as he isn't fed too much, he won't be able to pollute the water as quickly so you can get by with like a 30% water change mabe every 3-4 days for the first 2-3 weeks. By then you should be ok. I would also just use de-chlorinated tap water for the waterfeature (I don't see a problem with that, it's what i'm going to use in my paludarium when I get it running).

And I haven't had a just a fish aquarium in a while, but 30% every week or maybe every other week would be ok after it cycles. In my planted 72gallon I have to do a 50% waterchange every week.


----------



## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

well im not going to put in a filter, because i plan on doing a few water changes a month. Also Im not going to feed the betta, what ever flies fall in are its food. I already saw him devour a few, which brings me to my next conflict. I had put in a little frog figurine and it grabbed its leg and made a really fast motion dragging the frog to the bottom and eventually letting go. Could this pose as a danger to my real frogs? Or is it nothing to worry about?


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2005)

Well let me see if I can make a small dent in the betta argument.

I believe that bettas are fish that live in puddles naturally, and that they jump from puddle to puddle to find a mate. And as we all know puddles are stagnant and have low levels of oxygen, they also arent the cleanest clearest things in the world. The reason they can breath in these bodies of water are because they have something called a labryinth that allows them to breath air from the surface.

But the clarity of the water isnt the main issue being discussed here, rather its ammonia levels. I believe that plants directly remove ammonia from the water. So in theory if you had enough live plant matter to cancel (or highly reduce) the waters ammonia levels, then filtration would be trivial, or unecessary alltogether.

I am by no means saying not to use a filter, infact I would personally use one. But rather that a filter isnt necessarily required. I also thought that Biznatch's post on the subject came off little harsh, whether it be intentional or not.

P.S. 
Tetras are an excellent choice, for a water display, especially neons. Think about it they come from the same general area as most dendrobatids, and inhabit waters rich in tannic acids. 
Bettas on the other hand do best in the nuetral zone on the pH scale.


----------



## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

First off all bettas dont live in rice puddles and they dont jump out of the water to find a mate.There are many rare and beautiful betta's that come from pristine mountain streams and fast flowing rainforest creeks.Also the only down fall about a betta splendens which is most likely what you will get is if a tad gets in the water feature the betta will pesture it to death the tail movement alone will attract the betta.If it is big enough get some neon tetras they are commercialy bred and they are beautiful.I am not being an ass but I that info is not accurate.
later

check this site out http://ibc-smp.org/index.html

No need to research it is right here


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2005)

Ok, if the info is not accurate, then i shall research it myself and cite a source.


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2005)

Betta Splenden also referred to, as Siamese fighting fish, is native to Southeast Asia. Bettas natural habitat includes flooded rice field, stagnant ponds, ditches, and slow flowing streams

Bettas have an organ called a labyrinth that allows them to breathe surface air. This enables them to live in small individual plastic or glass jars without the need for aeration.

The ideal water pH for keeping bettas should be in the range of 6.8 to 7.0, from neutral to slightly acidic, which is the condition most prevalent in betta’s natural habitat.

http://majesticbettas.com/

So what happens when the rice field that they live in isnt flooded and they are confined to puddles. They move from puddle to puddle, which is where they get their natural jumping abilities, which is why it is advised to keep a cover on a 'betta bowl' or whatever you want to call it, in order to keep them from jumping out.


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2005)

And from your own source:

"Occur in standing waters of floodplains, canals, rice paddies and medium to large rivers."

Nothing about "pristine mountain streams," and do you want to know why? Because it is falsle.


----------



## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

*bettas*

Read on I wasnt talking about just betta splendens as you didnt refer to just betta splendens.You said bettas live in puddles and jump from puddle to puddle to find a mate.That is not accurate and you didnt clarify what exact species that is why I said that.Actually there are many rare and exotic bettas that come from equally exotic habitats.Keep looking at the site i mentioned it is all there.
cya


----------



## Biznatch (Aug 30, 2005)

With a single betta in a few gallons of water and weekly small water changes along with live plants you should be just fine. And just because betta's are stored in little containers or are able to survive in small puddles in the wild doesn't mean they like it. I have a betta in my 10 gallon and he is always swimming around exploring around the plants etc. When I put my crowntail in my 72 he loved to swim all around the tank, just like any other fish. 

Also I believe algae is much better at using ammonia as a source of nutrients than plants are. I'm pretty sure an ammonia spike is what causes green water in planted tanks. Just something to keep in mind.


----------



## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

*Bettas*

Ammonia is just one factor that can cause excessive algae(green water).
High nitrates and large quantities of phosphates which is in most city water supply's can also contribute.I keep and breed many bettas trey some of which would die very soon if you put them in an inadequate setup.They are actually very delicate.You wouldnt stick one of our frogs in a gallon jar just because you could would you.Just something to ponder.
later

Also if you can get ahold of some try java moss it is excelent for scrubbing water(absorbing available nutrients).


----------



## Biznatch (Aug 30, 2005)

There are different types of algae, each of which has it's own cause. Almost alwas it's from a nutrient defficiency. Green water is just one type, you won't get it from lots of phosphates or lots of nitrates. I dose at least 10ppm of nitrates 3 times a week, 1ppm of phosphates 3 times a week and magnesium/pottasium after every water change. You are more likely to get algae from low to no nutrients in the water because the plants stop/slow growing and the algae takes over. It's fine too have more than you need as long as it's not way more than you need.


----------



## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Is your tank a plant only tank.I wouldnt recomend dosing nitrates at all if you have fish yes they can live with small amounts but to much and your fish will suffer.And yes phosphates do cause algae blooms most marine algae blooms are linked to excessive nutrients due to run off from farms and such.I wouldnt recomend dosing phosphates either. If you are using tap even treated tap you will have enough phosphates already.Nitrate is the reason for excessive algae growth.It wont harm the fish directly but to much and it causes overall bad water quality in an enclosed system.If your nitrates are high what do most aquarists do we change the water.
later


----------



## Biznatch (Aug 30, 2005)

That's what people used to think and it has been proven wrong in many cases. Go to http://www.plantedtank.net and read up about it. Search for "Tom Barr" and the "EI method" of dosing nutrients. For a healthy planted tank you HAVE to dose nutrients if you have a lot of light or you get a lot of algae. You also HAVE to have CO2 (I have a 20lb tank). So you want excess nutrients to prevent algae, not a defficiency.


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2005)

You are right, I am sorry I did not specify, i was referring to B. splendens. I guess i did not specify because splendens is the most widely available, and commonly seen/ kept. In my own personal experience, I have never walked into a PetSmart or whatever chain petstore, and seen any other kind of betta.


----------



## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

*Planted aquarium*

That is why I asked if your tanks are plant only.I also know you have to dose a plant only aquarium.Without fish there are no nutrients for the plants to utilize.Trey no problem you didnt have to apologize everything is cool That web site is kick ass isnt it.
cya


----------



## Poison-Dart-Fart (Sep 30, 2005)

HI My girl friend has 8 bettas from crown tails to split tail, and even a imported one. They are found in small pounds some less than a 1.5 inch. Or even small puddles in rice fields. Now im not saying put them in a samll water way thats crule. But 3 or more inchs is fine. They will only nibble at other fish. i have a ghost shrip in one tank and its fine. i have a crab and thats fine too in another tank. they are really hardy fish. And if it does nibble at the frog it "the frog" will move quick and scary the betta. after a while it will get use to it and give up. The one betta with the ghost would try to get it but he would jet off and scare the poop out of it. now he doesnt even look at him.
I dont have any DTF frogs yet my tank is going. But looking at my GTF his skin looks like it wont brake from a betta nibble.


----------



## Guest (Oct 7, 2005)

I think the safes fish you can add to your frog tank are pirhanas they are very cute and harmless. :lol: 


Cheers


----------



## Guest (Oct 7, 2005)

Newt, I have to agree. I have seven of those puppies in my water feature of 1.5 gallons. The only food they get are the FF that find their way into the water.

The real problem I have is finding the escape hole all my frogs are disappearing thru. The frogs escape and I never see hide nor hair of them again.

BTW, the Wings get to kick your butt in a couple of days don't they?

Besides Pirhana, other good fish would be Cory Cats, Hatchet fish and of course the Tetras. Neons and Cardinals live in blackwater and are colored that way so they can find each other.


----------



## Guest (Oct 15, 2005)

Exactly how deep would the water need to be to keep a betta anyway?


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

i've had one in one of my vivs....the water level ranges anywhere from 1.5 to 3 inches, he's been fine so far...been in there a couple months atleast. Oh and fyi for anyone who read any of my newt related posts....I FOUND MY PADDLE TAIL NEWT! he survived the move and remodel of the cage after all...and i turned the lights in the cage on at 4am just to check on new moss i put in and there he was in the water.


----------

