# Viv construction



## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm getting started on my first Viv and am going to be using a 30g long. I am using black foam for the design work and was wondering the best way to adhere the coco fiber or whatever media I am going to use to the foam? 

If I am going to add a small water feature and "pond" to one side of the tank what's the best way to drain it so it stays full enough but doesn't overflow and flood the topside of the false bottom?


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## whatever111 (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi I just stuck the eco earth/coco fiber onto the black handi foam itself and it sticks pretty well, but there are a few gaps, but since it's black, they aren't noticeable.

I don't know about your second question though...I don't do ponds lol


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

regarding yoru pond, are you goona be adding fresh water all the time? why are you asking about overflow if you are not gonna be recycling the water through the water fall?


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

I am going to be recycling the water through the false bottom and stream into the "pond". I was thinking of building a small skimmer style box like an actual pond but I'm not sure if there is a better way. Are ponds even necessary or good for the frogs or are they more of a headache than they are worth?


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

a pond is not a nescesity, but some people like it just as a water feature, they are somewhat a bit of work, but once you get it goign they are cool to have, but they do require a little maintenance as you get it along.


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## floridaboy (Feb 26, 2007)

If you decide to do a Water feature, keep a few things in mind. You are going to need to access your pump to fix propellers and what ever, and you going to have to other various maintainance, so make sure that you can do that. Make sure that you can actually work on your pump, I built a pump house(looks cool) that is way to small to be functional. When it comes time to work on the pump, I'm going to have take frogs out and cut my pump house out to get to my pump. You have to do alot more planning and designing then you might think. I'm totally glad that i did the water feture, I really think it adds alot to the tank, but I doubt all the future tanks I do will have them, they are alot of work. Also your water levels will most liklely rise so either put in a bulkhead or an idea i saw here, was to build in PVC piping(hidden) with notches cut out in the bottom so that a tube can be run down to siphon excess water. Bulk head sounds easier.

Also read everything here you can befor you get started, there are so many things I wish I would have done to my first tank that i didn't do. And alot of things i did to it that i wouldn't have if i hadn't gotten alot of ideas here first.


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

I was recently introduced to a great idea for solving the "access to pump" problem! It is a little more expensive when it comes to the price of the pump but well worth it. The trick is having a hole in the back wall of the viv to run hoses through. If you can get the hole (or want one) then all you need is a dual submersible/dry pump. These pumps can be run without being in the tank. You just run your intake hose down to the water level and guide your outtake hose to were you need it! Granted I have not done this but this advice was given to me by a fellow researcher who has raised many a aquatic/semi-aquatic species for many years. I have a tank now that has a hole in the back of the tank for the power cord to run out of. The pump is no longer in operation mainly because of the waterfall soaking the substrate to much. 
Any questions on the details then just PM me.

Hinkle


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

I think I'm going to go with a hole cut in the foam with a removable block for pump access and speed fittings for the plumbing just to make it easier. For the false bottom and layered substrate I am unclear as to exactly what to use. I've seen that the clay ball bottom layer can color the water in the system and I don't want to deal with that. Is it ok to use gravel as the base for drainage and then put some soil on top and then coco fiber or floor cover? What's the best way to do it so the soil on top doesn't work it's way down into the drainage layer?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> s it ok to use gravel as the base for drainage and then put some soil on top and then coco fiber or floor cover? What's the best way to do it so the soil on top doesn't work it's way down into the drainage layer?


Gravel's heavy, and that's why I'm staying away from it when I start my build next week. In a 30 gallon tank with an average of two inches of drainage layer across the bottom, that's bound to add some weight. Factor in the weight of the glass and water weight and it could be cumbersome to move the viv if you need to for general maintenance, etc. If you're worried about LECA coloring the water, maybe a good heavy rinsing is in order to flush away any dust?

As far as separating the substrate from the drainage layer, I believe fiberglass window screen is quite popular. I've heard that some even use a coco-panel mat to act as the barrier and I might give it a try at some stage.

Jason


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm not concerned with the weight, my main hobby is reef tanks I can't imagine the viv weighing anything near that. I was reading in "Jewels of the Rainforest..." by Jerry Walls that he suggests a layer of carbon at the bottom and I think I may try that as it makes sense on several levels. I may not go with an entire layer but I am definitely going to use carbon somehow in the flow of the water through the substrate into the water feature. Also read about the screen so I am going to do that but how necessary is it to use some soil specifically for the plants in the viv? I am going to use live plants but do I need to put down a layer of it or just use it in certain spots and what is the best kind of plant soil?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Also read about the screen so I am going to do that but how necessary is it to use some soil specifically for the plants in the viv? I am going to use live plants but do I need to put down a layer of it or just use it in certain spots and what is the best kind of plant soil?


I'm just beginning with the hobby myself, but I'm going to try and answer your question to see if I understand the logic myself. I suspect that substrate choices vary depending on, among other things, the degree that it maintains moisture while still draining easily and how quickly it breaks down in the high humidity confines of a viv. The substrate that I will be using for my building will be a combination of cocofiber and tree fern then a layer of leaf litter. I'm guessing that anything too fine will compact greatly and form dead spots, but I'm only guessing at this point. The finer stuff for water retention, the chunkier stuff to promote drainage and aeration. 

I did do a quick google search on the use of activated carbon and here's what I found:



> Regular charcoal or carbon, not the activate type for aquariums, does not serve an important function in the substrate of a vivarium. At some point in the past people started using charcoal, including the activated type, in layers of the substrate to remove chemicals. The activated type probably does remove a small amount of pollutants from the soil, but in a healthy environment with a flourishing bacteria colony, the need for additional pollutant removal is nil. Regular charcoal does not serve any purpose in the vivarium, however, some orchid growers use it in the potting mix to aid aeration because it never decomposes (Searcey, 2001). In the vivarium, a substance such as coconut husk cubes would be a better choice, as these add to the richness of the substrate.


Source: http://www.livingunderworld.org/amphibi ... 0021.shtml

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

Jason


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

I am with you Jason, as I am using a false bottom with window screen over it. Then I have Leca balls on top that. I then am using the Atlanta Botanical Garden mix on top of the leca. Expect water discoloration from any substrate you use. The whole system is exactly as the Google post has said, it is a self cleaning system. The plants and micro fauna will break down most everything in the way of waste. I would avoid regular soil at all costs as Jason pointed out it will compact and also the frogs will track it everywhere. I like distilled water as it leaves little in the way of mineral build up on the tank walls.

Pics of my bottom.



























If you want larger pics then visit my gallery.
Hope that helps.

Hinkle


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> I am with you Jason


Thanks Hinkle, glad I understand the basics! I'll be undertaking my build of an Exo-Terra 12 x 12 x 18 next week, so I at least want to sort out the fundamentals in my head for tackling the project. For those interested, I will using tree fern fiber for my background, Terra Lite as my drainage layer, and the aforementioned substrate. Specific plants unknown at this time, beyond a vanilla orchid and pilea just ordered from Josh's Farms. I've got a mixed bag of plants coming from Black Jungle as part of a 'starter kit' so I'll have some decent things to work with.


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

Jason, are you going to put a waterfall or something like that in that exo?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Jason, are you going to put a waterfall or something like that in that exo?


Not sure how I would achieve that without a false bottom and the footprint doesn't give much to work with. Do you have any ideas?


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

Rehijacking this thread lol.... So is the plant soil necessary or can I just go with the regular floor covering? I want to get a few Bromeliads since I'm using a 50g and was planning on putting a couple low and a couple up on the wood I'm getting. Do they all need to be "planted" on the wood with some soil around them or just wedge them in? 

In regard to the carbon question before i think I'm going to use a small amount of activated carbon to polish the water for the water feature. I don't want the water looking brown or nasty when carbon will remove the discoloration (or maybe even a smal filter). I also plan on using RO for all my water but do I need to adjust the PH since RO is normally more acidic? I have a 1400gpd spectrapure unit so getting the RO isn't a problem I'm just worried it might be too acidic? What PH should the frogs be at?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> So is the plant soil necessary or can I just go with the regular floor covering? I want to get a few Bromeliads since I'm using a 50g and was planning on putting a couple low and a couple up on the wood I'm getting. Do they all need to be "planted" on the wood with some soil around them or just wedge them in


I'd stick with the vivarium substrates we've been discussing- it's a proven thing. With broms, drainage is SUPER important and I've seen them wedged into crevices with a little damp sphagnum wrapped around the roots to encourage further growth. Wedge the stolon in and maybe afix with a little fishing line until the plant anchors itself? 

Sounds like you're thinking along the same lines that I am, so it's good that we're going through this together!


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

Got my order in today and I got some Zilla fur and sphagnum substrate. Was planning on using this under a layer of long fiber sphagnum mixed with live mosses. The wood and bark I got looks great but is it necessary to use a light bleach wash on them before I put them in the viv? I was reading some people talking about bleaching stuff and others not.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

Since you are starting with a new setup, I don't think that a bleach wash is necessary. I think precautions like these are more prudent in large established collections. Same goes for quarantining new frogs.


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

Instead of using a bleach wash, I would just bake the wood for 1 hour @ 200-400 F. The temp is an estimate that I think is safe to kill anything but I got the time from various threads. As for temp most of the threads don't suggest a temp so I used this as my range. I will warn you that at the higher temps it will smell like burning wood but it doesn't actually char. I just would be safe rather than sorry. My advice concerning substrate is to forgo any soil at all. 

As for the acidity of the RO water, well that should change just from being run through the system it self. As far as safe for frogs, I look at it this way: these species are laying eggs and rearing the tadpoles in holes in trees (and other such sites), these sites are probably pretty acidic from the natural tannins found in those sites. 

Hope that helps.

Hinkle


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

P.S. Sorry for the initial hijacking!


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

That's ok Hinkle....just don't let it happen again. I didn't really think about the trees making the water acidic I guess that answers a lot of future questions too lol. I should be setting up the viv sometime next week so I'll be posting in the viv colum after that. The plan is to create a tree stump type look with roots and moss with a small stream and puddle.


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

I will also be setting up a new vivarium this week and will keep all posted on the progress. If you want a really goo way to add natural looking background let me know, as I just found out about this really cool stuff.
God Luck,
Hinkle


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

what stuff did you find out about? I was going to use great stuff foam with cork bark embedded in it and grapewood for roots.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Id be cautious about using grapewood in a tropical viv - it molds over very quickly, and tends to do so for a very long time, IME. Malasian hardwoods or African rootwood works very well, as does cypress.


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

I was made aware of this before and I had an idea on how to combat this but I'm not sure if it is frog safe. We have an antifungal medication that is all natural in the aquarium trade called pimafix. It's an oil based medication made from west indian bay trees and the active ingredient is Pimenta Racemosa 1.0%. My plan was to create a wash that I could douse the wood with and since it's oil based it wouldn't evaporate or even allow the wood to become too saturated anyway. If anyone has any knowledge on this or experience please let me know before I do this.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I would not use that. Seeding the viv with springtails will combat the mold problem, as well as provide a good snack for your frogs, and help with waste disposal. Most woods will mold over for a short time, but grapevine seems to have this problem to a greater extent than other woods, as well as a habit of rotting out faster under viv conditions.


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

Frogstang: This stuff is meant to be used around the corkbark. I would use Great Stuff to secure the corkbark in but then you can use this stuff in between the cork and driftwood. 
Mind you I have no experience on how this stuff holds up in the tank but before you get dissuaded, I have it on good authority from a experienced hobbyist that it will hold up well. That said, I was told to use it in areas that are not constantly soaked with water (humidity supposedly OK). I have experimented with it just to know the mixing ratios and such. It so far after three days has turned into the most rock hard coco fiber thing I have seen yet. 
The product: Concrete Primer & Bonding Additive (ACE brand, ACE # 18848)
The technique: Shake bottle well and pour a little bit into an old Tupperware bowl (or something similar), then add coco fiber, dried moss and anything else you want into it. Get some latex gloves and mix well, now at this point you about 10 minutes or so to apply this to what ever you want! The Tupperware can be washed with soap and water, as long as it happens soon after using it. You're looking for basically an even mixture of the parts but again experiment with the ratios and placement of the stuff. 
I tried putting some of it on a chunk of corkbark and it has dried rock solid and won't pull off the chunk!
I have to attribute this find to kleinhanz http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=655

Here are pictures of what I have done so far!






























































































































Sorry for all the pictures, I just wanted to give you an idea of the possibilities!
If you think I left any important details out just ask.
Good luck.

Hinkle


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

This is also known as the 'flevapol' method. It works well as an alternative to the cocobedding/silicone method. I use it to cover up the foam background.


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

I may try this method but honestly I have so much silicone laying around at the store it's probably easier just use the black silicone. I'm still curious about treating the wood with an all natural antifungal. Anyone know if it will harm the frogs? I know springtails will take care of it to some degree but I'd rather just not have it in the tank at all.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> I know springtails will take care of it to some degree but I'd rather just not have it in the tank at all.


I think this is pretty much an impossibility with the wet conditions of a viv.


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## Frogstang29 (Oct 29, 2007)

that's why I want to know if the use of the natural oil is a good idea or not. I don't expect to eradicate it from the tank but to keep it mostly controlled is plausible I think.


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## ahinkle (Oct 15, 2007)

When I started and was worrying about mold and such, I was told to just spray the mold off of whatever it is on. I did that and for the last 3 months have not seen a sign of it.
I just used my mister bottle on the jet setting and squirted the heck out of whatever I saw.
Worked for me, might work for you.
Good luck.

Hinkle


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