# Milk frog with something in mouth?



## kh0813 (Dec 27, 2020)

I have two milk frogs in an 18x18x24 viv, and I've had them for about a month. We were painting my bedroom (low VOC paint, and I researched and sealed the tank beforehand), and unfortunately it's been taking a couple days to complete. I've been unsealing the tank to let them have fresh air ventilation, and resealing before painting again. 
Yesterday, I noticed one of the frogs had its mouth open, and something gel-like on its tongue. It looked like the water gel that crickets consume, and though I keep a couple crickets in a small deli cup in the tank for the frogs to get into there hasn't been any water gel for almost a week. 
I've read up a little on frogs regurgitating their stomachs, and it looks similar, but with the strange bit on the end of the tongue I'm not so sure. 
What do you think this is? And do you think the painting has anything to do with it?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Looks like a water gel crystal. Remove it from the frog's mouth _immediately_. This is an emergency.

Also, never leave those crystals in a frog viv. Actually, using them at all is dangerous, since they can dry out, hitch a ride into the viv on a feeder, and the swell in the frog's stomach. A piece of carrot, apple, potato, or orange is a much more suitable water source for crickets.


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## kh0813 (Dec 27, 2020)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Looks like a water gel crystal. Remove it from the frog's mouth _immediately_. This is an emergency.
> 
> Also, never leave those crystals in a frog viv. Actually, using them at all is dangerous, since they can dry out, hitch a ride into the viv on a feeder, and the swell in the frog's stomach. A piece of carrot, apple, potato, or orange is a much more suitable water source for crickets.


I was able to get most of it with feeding tongs, and he is closing his mouth now. There is still a little left that I couldn't pull off. Do you think he will be able to expel the rest himself?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

kh0813 said:


> Do you think he will be able to expel the rest himself?


I don't know. Did you confirm that the mass is in fact water crystal? If so, it shouldn't have been hard to completely remove -- you say "pull off", which suggests it is somehow attached.

If it were my animal, and I knew that the mass was not part of the frog, I'd open the mouth and get all foreign material out of there. Only you know your comfort level with that sort of thing.


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## kh0813 (Dec 27, 2020)

It looked like a water crystal at least- clearish blue and definitely not part of the stomach. The problem is that I removed what I could, but the stomach hadn't completely...let go of it, I guess? Or the stomach hadn't completely turned itself out. There is a part of the mass that is still inside of the stomach. However the frog has re-swallowed its stomach and has its mouth closed now.

I have chronically shaky hands, so I don't really feel very comfortable trying to open the mouth any farther. I'm worried about stressing it out too much or possibly injuring it further.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

It sounds as if you've done what you can (and I hear you on the shaky hands). Good work. 

I'd recommend throwing those water crystals all in the trash, and getting some oranges (or whatever is in season) for the crickets.

I'd keep a close eye on things, and maybe take a minute to find the exotics vets in your area if you need one at any point in the future. You can search for one here:

https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661


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## kh0813 (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you so much for helping! I'm extremely new to frogs, and it's really nice to have this site as a resource for help from you and others. I really appreciate you being willing to work with me and advise.


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## kh0813 (Dec 27, 2020)

The small piece that I couldn't get must have re-expanded, because his stomach is expelled again. I tried once again to remove it with the feeding tongs, but none of it would separate from the stomach. He had climbed out of the cup at some point during the afternoon, hidden, and gotten his stomach coated in substrate now too.

The only vet nearby that was listed in the directory link is closed on Sundays and has no emergency care, so I will be looking around online for any other exotic vet nearby able to take him, if he survives the night.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

kh0813 said:


> The small piece that I couldn't get must have re-expanded, because his stomach is expelled again. I tried once again to remove it with the feeding tongs, but none of it would separate from the stomach. He had climbed out of the cup at some point during the afternoon, hidden, and gotten his stomach coated in substrate now too.
> 
> The only vet nearby that was listed in the directory link is closed on Sundays and has no emergency care, so I will be looking around online for any other exotic vet nearby able to take him, if he survives the night.


I hope you find a vet.

This is *DIRE.*

I really hope you can find one for the frog. This is super important and I’m glad you’re finding a vet for him.

Good luck to you and your frog!


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## kh0813 (Dec 27, 2020)

Thanks. I feel absolutely terrible leaving him overnight, but there's just no one around to be able to see to him.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

kh0813 said:


> Thanks. I feel absolutely terrible leaving him overnight, but there's just no one around to be able to see to him.


It’s ok. I’m honestly not sure if he will be fine but don’t think of it. You did nothing wrong. Hopefully he survives. Prayers to him.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

You need to remove the foreign object from its stomach if it can't do it itself. Try flushing it with a small amount of water (dechlorinated!! or saline if you happen to have any) around the object to see if it loosens it from the stomach lining. Don't be overly forceful, but do try to remove it. The other option is surgery from a vet, which I'm sure will be extremely pricey.

Frogs can't throw up, so it is common they expel their entire stomachs. They then usually physically remove anything with their front feet if possible.

At the very least, flush the debris off his stomach and remove him into a container with no debris (small tupperware with moist paper towel will work) so it isn't dragging it's stomach all over the substrate. That is bound to cause some issues.


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## kh0813 (Dec 27, 2020)

Just wanted to give a final update. Unfortunately the frog did not survive the night. Thank you all for your help in doing what I could.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm sorry for what happened. You did what you could.

Please do throw away those water crystals.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

I’m so sorry.

Hopefully this doesn’t happen again.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

This happened during a break I took and Im so sorry op had to go through this catastrophe. 

I dont know if I could have helped, except to say that extracting the crystal would have been paramount and perhaps required different tools. Albeit slowly yet steadily increasing shape irregularities pressing against vital organs and passageways a horribly exacerbating factor. 

Adding more water would be counterindicated, as that is what causes the polymer to enlarge.

This should be a cautionary tale. I wrote piece in the Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research (volume 4, issue 4) about water crystals causing death in an anole, a cherished pet well cared for but for this one lapse in oversight. 
These water substituting convenience material, which were not developed for herp or invert keeping purposes should never be used in the environment. Not ever. Just give your feeders water. Romaine works. Even give it a spray till it turns rusty. Get a shallow plant pot base and line it with bio balls. Yes you will have to rinse it. Accept or learn to feed thawed on forceps.


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