# How nasty your frogs really are!



## Ben Wehr (Jan 23, 2011)

So me and a friend (heatfreakk) decided to use the microscope that the local community college loaned me to do some fecals last night. WOW 

We found a little bit of everything.

First; the wild caught cobalts I just recieved which look awesome and are a great weight were full of ciliated protozoa and what looked like hook worms. A bit of bacteria too.

Second; heatfreakks wc cobalts were pretty clean. A mild number of protozoa. No giardia in any. The were all little globual ciliates. Maybe coccidia. Maybe something else.

Third; a healthy looking azureus had a bunch of the same or simular protozoa.

Third; from a healthy looking pair of citronellas. i think there were a few protozoa but there seemed to be an abundant amount of rod bacteria, both singular and chained together. 

I am now going to get with a good vet after doing fecals on the rest of my frogs and quarentine and treat all of them for what ever they have.

The protozoa looked a lot like this





Or like this





The worms my cobalts looked just like this





The worms in my new regina that I tested a few days ago looked like this





Oh, I don't remember which frogs but there were also some really small squigily worms the size of bacteria.

If anyone has any information one what I saw that'd be great. I really want to know if there are any beneficial or benine ciliate/flagulate protozoa that are common in a fecal. The one thing I know is they didn't die in the cobalts after a week of metro drips on the back.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you want to do some work on your own I strongly suggest JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie and looking in the relevent chapters in Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry. 

As for a amphibian vet have you considered contacting Oz??

Ed


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Pretty interesting stuff. Now I dare you to take some of your own kiddies from the pool and put them under the microscope


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## Ben Wehr (Jan 23, 2011)

GRIMM said:


> Pretty interesting stuff. Now I dare you to take some of your own kiddies from the pool and put them under the microscope


Dude, I thought about that. You know how many times I didn't bother washing my hands after messing with my frogs before I'd go about doing other things. Possibly even eating


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

I agree with Grimm. If frogs have some bad stuff in them only god knows whats in US LOL. Some of that stuff may be benefical to them.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

B-NICE said:


> I agree with Grimm. If frogs have some bad stuff in them only god knows whats in US LOL. Some of that stuff may be benefical to them.


That's what Ben and I have been researching. As you saw we found quite a bit of little nasties... Even more than Ben posted. I've been researching online, and Ben has been doing the same and I think talking to some vets as well to try and figure out which are bad, and which ones are good. Very cool though!

The day after we looked at everything I went down to walmart to get me a 100 pack of vinyl gloves and a big bottle of germ-x lol. Been using them a LOT today haha.


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## Steven rider (Mar 29, 2011)

ok now your scaring me im making a trip to wal-mart as we speek 
by the way that was funny i dont care who you are


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

heatfreakk3 said:


> That's what Ben and I have been researching. As you saw we found quite a bit of little nasties... Even more than Ben posted. I've been researching online, and Ben has been doing the same and I think talking to some vets as well to try and figure out which are bad, and which ones are good. Very cool though!
> 
> The day after we looked at everything I went down to walmart to get me a 100 pack of vinyl gloves and a big bottle of germ-x lol. Been using them a LOT today haha.


If you have access to Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry there are discussions in it, that tell you what you should expect to see in a fresh fecal (and why a fresh fecal is way better than refrigerating one or mailing it). 

Ed


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## DendroRachel (Jun 21, 2011)

Just this Tuesday I actually took all the feces i could find (old and new, in all 4 of my species tanks) and watered it down... i had my 10th grade biology students make wet mounts and look at the under microscopes LOL they actually had a blast and after i told them what it was they thought it was gross but cool. we found chunks of fly exoskeleton, single-celled organisms swimming around, and a few worms - mostly round worms and possibly one flat worm (no easily visible proglottids or scolex...). Because this was just set up as a microscope exercise I don't know the source of the worms, I think the roundworms are probably just soil nematodes. I am now planning to do a real fecal exam with fresh, species or frog specific feces.


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## Ben Wehr (Jan 23, 2011)

The community college I got my microscope from said that they are often in need of fresh feces. They usually get it from local farmers. I bet highschools and colleges would help somebody get a free fecal.


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

Well, that'll teach me to hold my frogs in my mouth.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Someone sent me a link to this thread - but I am just now getting a chance to respond.

Ciliates are common organisms within amphibian intestinal tracts and are for the most part just a part of the normal commensal flora (as are bacteria). However, if you really saw Balantidium organisms - they can be pathogenic to vertebrates. If they are truly Balantidium, then you should have seen the ciliate nucleus rotating within the organism, as it is a characteristic feature.

Ciliates and flagellates (much smaller oblong organisms with a flagellum), although considered part of normal flora, can cause problems if there is overgrowth of any of the species (dysbiosis). Antibiotic treatments are one of the most common culprits, but stress or underlying disease can also promote dysbiosis.

Coccidia are quite small, and should look like ovoid to round organisms with a prominent nucleus. Giardia are even smaller and can be quite difficult to diagnose on a routine fecal without a lot of experience.

As for the worms, if the sample was fresh - then I would be considered about an infection with either lungworm (Rhabdias spp.) or a strongyloides-like organism (not truly hookworms). These worms have a direct life cycle and can cause superinfections within the host. However, if the sample was in the tank for a little while before collection, you would have to rule out any non-pathogenic soil nematodes.

I would recommend a repeat fecal collected from a semiQT container (a plastic container with a moist paper towel substrate works great) to see if the organisms are still there. 

Oz




Ben Wehr said:


> So me and a friend (heatfreakk) decided to use the microscope that the local community college loaned me to do some fecals last night. WOW
> 
> We found a little bit of everything.
> 
> ...


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