# Problem breeding Azureus



## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Hello!

I've had an Azureus breeding trio for about 3 years now. I made a major modification to their viv about a month ago. They've never laid many eggs before, maybe once or twice, all ineffective clutches. 

I was hoping with the change to get them breeding. I know it might take some time to get them breeding, however in the past, I wasn't successful in that. 

They started laying eggs when I placed a cocohut high in the middle of some plants and not in the floor. Would this be a variable to consider?

Any advise will be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks,


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## RobR (Dec 24, 2011)

Bad clutches can be from poor supplementation. A lot of people, myself included use Repashy calcium plus at every feeding and Repashy vitamin A once or twice a month. Both should be replaced every six months and stored in the refrigerator except for about a weeks worth kept with your frogs and flies.


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## Ash Katchum (Dec 20, 2012)

^^^^ what he said. Also from reading a lot of info on the board and my own experience Azureus (Tincs in general) do better in pairs 1.1. I dust the FF's every feeding with Repashy Calcium+( I feed everyday) and 2 days out of the week I mix in Repashy super pig, I also use Repashy Vitamin A but instead of once a month I use it every 10days. Also check you're temps, my room gets to 80* at the highest in the day and 68* at the lowest during the night. Mist twice a day and maybe seed you're tank with some springs and isos(not necessary but might help). This has worked for me but as a previous thread I read said what works for me might not work for you and vice versa. Keep in mind I just into dart frogs December last year and purchased a pair of D. Azureus soon afterwords, I found my first clutch 9 days ago but since then have found and took out 2 more clutches out of the viv.I also found a tad in the water bowl in there viv yesterday and he had another tad today on his back. Hope this helps.


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## Darts15 (Jun 5, 2011)

I third what's been said so far, and also try changing humidity levels. Try making it a little more humid, or less humid if it's well above 80%. This has proven successful with some of my frogs in the past.


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Thank you guys!

What I do for supplementation is Rep-Cal, Herptivite and Calcium with Vit. D. every feeding, I've been doing this since I have them for all my frogs. The Leucs and the Auratus are very prolific. 

I didn´t know I had to keep them in the fridge, but I will from now on. 

I feed once a day, although if they have not finished the flies on the viv I might skip a day. 

I mist 8 times a day for 15 seconds at a time, pretty much distributed throughout the day. 

I do change the diet from time to time, I have 3 different species of fruit flies and I feed them crickets when I get a hand of them. The vivs are heavily seeded with springtails. 

Once again thank you for your time and advice.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Misting 8 times a day seems a bit much imo.. I'm usually at twice a day sometimes once a day..


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## Darts15 (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah, and what do you have set up to keep humidity in? I'd say mist twice a day, and if you dont already have it, put either a piece of glass cut to fit the tank or just saran wrap over the top of the terrarium to keep humidity in. It makes a surprising difference in activity.


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks!

2 a day? for how long? 

What's the ratio when you change from dry to wet season?

Thanks again!


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## Darts15 (Jun 5, 2011)

Just until everything looks damp, but not to the point where there are puddles in the substrate. Just spray the tank for maybe 5-10 seconds going back and forth.


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

I have them in an 18X18X24 viv. with a glass cover, humidity is around 95%

Thanks,


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

when i want to get mine going i feed them a good amount everyday and mist them several times a day. when i dont want them to breed, i feed every other day or sometimes a little longer than that and cut back on the misting. it gives them a dry season. usually they start breeding almost immediately for me when i start the heavy feeding and misting. also as others have stated make sure you dust them at every feeding. rapashy calcium plus is what i use and a couple times a month i use rapashy vitamin a plus. hope this helps


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## Darts15 (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah that may actually be what I suggest you do to get them to breed. Have them go through a dry season. Just mist thoroughly once in the morning, and feed every other day. I'd say do this for (two?) weeks, and then mist heavily twice a day after that time and increase feeding.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

My dry season usually runs about 30-45 days during the winter.. Misting once every 2-3 days and fed every 3 days as well.. Always haveva water source i.e small soaking pond available "small dish works well". My humidity level stays right around 80-85%..


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## PappaFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

Hi Naturian,
I also had a similar problem with my azureas breeding pair...only no eggs were ever laid. At least none I had found in their enclosure. I tried all the advice that I found on this board, the vitamins, misting, coco huts, etc. I tried all this great info but to no avail on getting the pair to lay eggs. Then one day I read about someone placing a shot glass in their terrarium and their breeding pair started to lay eggs. So I thought I would give it a try. Seven days later I had four eggs, one viable and morphed out to a beautiful froglet. I added another shot glass and the frogs rotated laying eggs in each one. Needless to say I had more tadpoles than I know what to do with...and I had to take the shot glasses out until I can process all the eggs and tads. 
I just wanted to add another idea. 
Thanks,
PappaFrog


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks Pappafrog,

I added a couple of shots to the viv, however I found some eggs in a brom leaf. 

There's only 2, one is definitely bad and the other one looks black. The female keeps moving in and out of the leaf, I even think that she might have ruined the other eggs, but I'm not sure. 

Now, I have a question, since I've heard no calling, whatsoever and I've recorded them with a GoPro several times with no calling or mating results, I might think that I have 3 females. One definitive female is much larger and arched than the other two. 

My question is: Can there be eggs with no male present? 

Thanks as always for your valuable input.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I believe I've read that dart frogs can lay eggs without a male present in the viv if they can hear a male in another viv calling.

Post some pictures of the frogs and the viv -- members can help sex your frogs and point out anything in the viv that might help with breeding


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks Hypostatic,

Here's some pictures of the suspected males, there's one where they are together and 3 of one of them. I will take some more later today. 

In the viv next to the Azureus one, I have some calling Auratus and calling Imitators, the one next to that one has a group of calling Leucs. Do you think this could be a variable?

Thanks again!


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## joneill809 (Feb 25, 2012)

They look well fed  If I had to guess it would be all females. 

Do you ever see courting behavior? My male typically can be seen calling (heard if you get super close to the viv) and the two move about the viv together for a day or so. The female can get pushy offen stepping on the male and repeatedly stroking him. My pair is in an 18x18x24 as well and when they are mating they are within a few inches of each other for a few days. Mating is usually a protracted event that lasts the better part of a day. Mine deposit in Petri dishes in a cave in the back of the viv. After breeding they go about their separate ways in different areas of the viv for a few days. Then the cycle begins again usually every 7 to 10 days. It's noticeable to me when they are breeding. 

Just curious if you observed any of this behavior. If not, that combined with a lack of calling would lead me to suspect all females. You have gotten a lot of advice already on supplements and environment and I'd say my experiences were similar there. I'd say the biggest impact I saw to yields was the addition of repashy vit A into my rotation, and cycling down the pair. 

Anyhow just some of my limited experiences and opinions. Good luck!


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks Joneill809,

Yes, I've seen this behaviour before, where the suspected female chases one of the suspected males all around the viv, however, I thought this was bullying. 
She hasn't done this for the last 3 days or so. 

Here are more pictures of the frogs. 

The first I believe is a male, the second a female and the third a male. 

Thanks for all your help.


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Here's a couple of pictures of one of the suspected males. 

What do you guys think, male or female?

Thanks,


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## joneill809 (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm not sure. Just looking at the photos they seem like females to me but I could be thrown by how large they are. My male is much slimmer than my female. Here is my male:








He can show more of an arch when sitting:








Overall not much of an arch, and slim bodied. Here is my female:








Much more noticeable arch and gravid. Sorry I'm not of more help. I have some photos of calling and mating here FWIW. Maybe that is a good comparison point.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Those are some gorgeous pictures!

Do you have any pics that have the toe pads in focus? In the first pic your "male" does SEEM to have male pads at least.

Also, is there a way to differentiate between a frog that might be bearing eggs, or that is well fed/just ate a big meal?


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## joneill809 (Feb 25, 2012)

Took some flash assisted photos tonight - washed out the blues a bit but I think it gives you a better shot of the toes.

Male (smaller central spot on snout)









Female (larger central spot on snout)









I find the toe pads difficult to use as an indicator with this pair - not sure if this is a challenge with other pairs as well. The pad size difference was more pronounced when they were younger, but it seems like her pads have grown a bit. They are currently just under 2 years old and have produced about 30 froglets. 

Side by side :: this is pretty representative of their typical appearance - she's larger, has more pronounced arch, and she's more full bodied.











I posted additional photos / angles for you here if you want a few more.

And just to show they are really washed out by a flash, here's a favorite picture showing their blues


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Hmmmm I'm no expert, but to me their toe pads both look like male -- large and lobed. Maybe there's some unseen agression going on, which is why one is fatter than the other?

Perhaps try playing some recorded callings? I've noticed that my female gets more agitated and starts hopping around the viv more when I play it.


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## joneill809 (Feb 25, 2012)

Sorry I'm not the OP - just trying to give the OP reference pics from a breeding pair of azureus. My two are proven - I was trying to point out that toe pads may not be reliable all the time, it's really a combination of toe pads, back arch, size, and gravid appearance. 

Hopefully I did not cause too much confusion. To the OP - sorry. I hope the pics of my pair help.


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Thank you guys!

Really, thanks for the time, the awesome pictures and keeping in touch. 

I do believe my frogs are fat, I will add a series of pictures with the toepads and full body so, if at all possible, help me solve the mystery. 

I'm going to do it in 3 different posts.

First the larger, suspected female that definitely has large toe pads and chases one of the suspected males around.

P.S. How can I paste pictures into the text?


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## joneill809 (Feb 25, 2012)

Yeah this looks like a female to me but that is one persons opinion. 

You can embed the attached thumbnail in the text from the paper clip attachment icon once you have uploaded. I linked to the photos from my site so you could have a higher resolution image to look at. You use the little mountain icon for linking to pictures.


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## PappaFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

Hi Naturian,
Any luck with fertile eggs yet!


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## Froggywentacourtin' (May 30, 2013)

I have a question, this is my first time raising dart frogs and my froglets are only about two or three months old. My question is this, looking ahead if it turns out I have a male and female pair (being as they both came from the same clutch of tadpoles) is inbreeding them inadvisable or is this not a big issue with dart frogs? Thanks for any advice


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## Naturian (Nov 17, 2009)

Hi Pappafrog!

No, not yet, yesterday I found eggs scattered over a log, they don't look fertile though. I haven't heard calling yet. 

However I did buy a couple more, hoping I got a male there.

Thank you guys for all your support and for keeping in touch.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

One of the first signs of a vitamin A deficiency is repeated bad eggs. The supplement schedule you are using has no usable source of Vitamin A. Our frogs cannot properly process and use some forms of vitamin A. They need to have a preformed vitamin A, or Retinol.
I suspect your egg problem will not resolve until you look into the Repashy line of supplements. Alternatively, you could purchase a human grade preformed vitamin A/Retinol, and attempt to grind it small enough to stick well to flies. But why? Why not use the Repashy line of supplements, which includes the vitamin A you are looking for, and it is already ground much, much finer than you'll be able to grind it.


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