# Sick Tinc



## AZimm (Nov 9, 2013)

For the last 2-3 weeks I have noticed that one of my tincs is not acting quite right. Every day I observe him and try to search for answers on this forum and all over the internet...and I am still not sure what is going on or how to fix it. Definitely going to go to the vet this week. My first area where I need some advice is in which vet to go to... I live like 5 miles from Dr.Frye in Milan, MI. But his office is closed until Thursday. I found another vet about 15 miles away in Canton, MI. 3 of their vets are registered on the arav.org site. I have looked the Canton doctors up and can't find much about them online. So do I attempt to wait until Thursday when I can see Dr.Frye, or call the other vet office with the vets who I have found very little information about? I guess I am planning on seeing how my frog is doing tomorrow and then call the vet that is open to talk to them about their experience with darts...Any thoughts?

As far as what is going on with my frog, here it goes...(sorry so long, I am trying to include all the details I can think of)
He is one of 2 tincs I have in a 30 gal viv. Both about 2 years old. I have owned them for 6 months. Humidity is 80, Temp is low-mid 70s. I dust melano FFs every day with rep-cal & herptivite. There is also a springtail population in the substrate of their tank. He has always been a little less active than his counterpart. About 2-3 weeks ago I noticed that when he was trying to eat, he often missed the flies completely. At first I thought it was an eye/coordination problem. Eventually he would get the flies though. A week ago he started having quite a bit more trouble and appeared to give up after a few tries. He also was becoming increasingly more clumsy. When he would try to jump up on leaves and things he would sometimes fall, land on his back, and kick his legs around all awkwardly trying to get up. I assume this is because he has not had enough to eat. His tongue was not even coming out of his mouth all the way. I thought it could be STS so I got a vitamin powder with vitamin A in it...since I saw that this can be caused by a vit.A deficiency (I hadn't even realized previously that rep-cal & herptivite lack vitamin A). When he would eat the flies dusted with the new vitamin powder he would spit them back out. He has been in a small 10 gal temp tank for about a few days now and he cant really catch flies at all, he is extremely inactive & likes to soak in the water all day. Temp tank humidity is 80 and temps in the low-mid 70s, same as his home tank. Plenty of hides & water are in there. I started giving him a pedialyte soak each day & tried adding the vitamin powder to the pedialyte. (I know ARS is better, but am waiting to talk with a vet tomorrow or thursday. So pedialyte it is for now). He does jump around when he is in the very shallow pedialyte soak. But he is still uncoordinated & cant seam to be able to catch flies. I usually put the flies in the fridge now to slow them down. But he is not really interested after he tries 1-2 times & misses. I can't see his tongue come out of his mouth at all. He is getting skinnier now. During one of his daily soaks I noticed a clearish layer of mucous/dead skin floating around him. I know frogs shed, but I just haven't seen him shed before so I thought it was strange. It seems like he might have a vitamin deficiency, but I can't get him to eat (I don't know if I can do the force feeding thing...I am pretty concerned I will injure him in the process). Or maybe its parasites. And because he is not eating there is no/little frog poo for a fecal test. The other tinc he was living with appears happy, healthy, and very active. Actually the other one is a little fat probably because he was eating someone else's flies... 
Any thoughts or advice?

Tried to post some pictures of him. The last one is his home tank.


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## AZimm (Nov 9, 2013)

Anyone every visit this vet office before or seen any of these doctors for darts? all are on arav.org

Andrew Grzanowski, Byron Hagewood, K. Moran
Canton Center Animal Hospital
Canton Center Animal Hospital is a full service veterinary hospital serving you and your pet for more than 35 years


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

It sounds like STS from lack of Vitamin A. It can be easily corrected with this;

Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: Vitamin A Plus :: Vitamin A Plus 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

While you're at it grab some Repashy Calcium plus.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

frogfreak said:


> It sounds like STS from lack of Vitamin A. It can be easily corrected with this;
> 
> Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: Vitamin A Plus :: Vitamin A Plus 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center
> 
> While you're at it grab some Repashy Calcium plus.


Yep, sounds like classic STS. Which I believe can also be caused by not having enough calcium (or made worse)? The frog doesn't look to be in THAT bad of a shape, so I don't know if I personally would take him to the vet. ALTHOUGH, if he's losing weight really rapidly, he might also have another problem like worms/parasites exacerbating the problem. You never know unless a fecal is done.

I would also recommend getting Repashy Vit A Plus. I've noticed that frogs in general are not too fond of the dusting supplements used. So maybe try having a lighter dust coat on the flies. Like, you could dust them in one cup, and then transfer them to another cup and shake a bit to get the excess dust off.

I really highly recommend Vitamin A Plus, and Calcium Plus. If you want your frogs to be as healthy as possible you need to give them the proper nutrition. Cal+ should all the right nutrients in the right proportions. Fruit flies are basically like McDonalds... they're lacking in the stuff you really need to be healthy. And rep cal and herptivite are... lacking.

So, several of the sponsors carry Repashy, and I've even seen the whole like available at Petco, so you could try there. Or call Repashy in the morning and see if they know of a store nearby that carries it.

EDIT:

Oh, I ALMOST forgot! LEAF LITTER!!!


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## AZimm (Nov 9, 2013)

Thanks for your feedback I was thinking sts too. So is it "short tongue syndrome" or "sticky tongue syndrome"? It seems like a short tongue would be something you are born with (and he's only had the issue for less than a month). Where as the lack of stickiness I can see developing As a result of a deficiency. I will pick up some of the repashy vit powder. How could I get him to eat the dusted flies? I haven't seen him catch a fly for at least 24 hours. i just don't know how to get the vitamins in his system if he isn't trying


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

short tongue syndrome. It's getting pretty late, so I'll post some links to some thread on the subject until tomorrow. If the frog can't catch ANY flies at all then the vet might be the best bet actually

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/87096-frog-bad-aim.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...atment/145490-frog-short-tongue-syndrome.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/7152-short-tongue-syndrome.html


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## AZimm (Nov 9, 2013)

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## AZimm (Nov 9, 2013)

I decided to try the force feeding...it went better than expected. I was worried I would hurt him while trying to restrain him. So the picture I just posted was my solution to that. I made a little frog burrito with a damp paper towel. Then I could sort of pull the paper towel tighter to tighten my grip on him. We force fed him 2 days and added rapashy vit A plus to his mashed bugs. Today he was much more energetic and was eating on his own!! Im so happy I don't have to keep force feeding!:-D 

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## AZimm (Nov 9, 2013)

Another question now that my tinc appears to be recovering...how much vitamin A should I be giving him daily to cure the sts? Should I also give the Rapashy calcium plus...or just rapashy vitamin A plus until he is better?
I'm still keeping him quarantined until he starts acting a little more normal, I wouldn't say it's cured yet. Still difficult for him to catch flies but at least he is interested in food and catching most of the ones he goes after. I would just hate to send him to the other side of Vitamin A issues and cause it to build up to toxic levels in his system.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Here are the directions for Vitamin A Plus:

"As a regular supplement, it should not be used more than once per week by “dusting” insects, or sprinkling on vegetables at a level of one teaspoon per pound. It can be used therapeutically in higher or more frequent doses to reverse Vitamin A deficiency (Hypovitamintosis A) under Veterinary prescription. Retinol and other fat soluble vitamins such as Vitamin E and Vitamin D3 can build up in the body. Prolonged over supplementation can lead to toxicity (Hypervitamintosis A) and overdose or kill your specimens. "

So every day that you dust/feed FFs with it should be considered a "dose" in my opinion. I would dose twice per week with Vit A+ until he can easily catch frogs. All other feedings should be dusted with Cal+.

I would also feed your other frogs with Vit A Plus once per week for a few weeks. Odds are their levels aren't too high as well.


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