# Difficult Eggs - Zaparo



## Alan (Jan 12, 2005)

I have run many months with problem eggs from my Zaparo with consistent egg spoiling so I'm asking for recommendations for how to solve this chronic problem.

First - Zaparo eggs are the only eggs among 20+ morphs that I have breeding that are having this problem - otherwise I would look for cultural/husbandry issue as the cause.

The Zaparo group is 1.2 and have been laying eggs for about 10 months. Only one egg. has ever survived to tad stage. Eggs consistently develop the classic white mold between 5-6 days after being laid up to right before hatching. Tad development has been seen - although in less than 10% of eggs. Eggs initially look good (see picture).



















If left in the viv - they mold. If taken out and kept in sweater boxes - they also mold. Zaparo eggs are kept in clean, scrubbed sweater boxes rinsed with scalding holt water - so sweater box contamination is not a factor. Sweater box temp is about 75 degrees - same as all other eggs.

I have kept them on the dry side, lightly misted with spring water, black water extract rinsed, methylene blue rinsed, clear water rinsed - always with the same result.

Eggs are always left in the viv for 2 days after they are laid.

If I had not seen tad development then I would conclude that the male isn't fertilizing them - but this doesn't seem to be the issue.

I welcome your experience with similiar problems and advice to break this chain of egg failure.

Thanks,
Alan


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## Darren Meyer (May 22, 2004)

I have found the same problems with A. Zaparo . Lots of bad eggs find them all of the time on cork, leaves, on top of the cocco hut, EVERYWHERE . I'd just give them some more time . They also seem to be seasonal breeders, with the only good eggs I ever find are laid in the Fall . The rest of the year just a bunch of bad eggs . On the plus side once they do get the breeding down you get really good clutches with darn near 100% morphing healthy . 
You are now getting "some" luck , I think from here on out you should see more .
Oh ya try submerging the eggs in a 1/2 in of water , that's what I do  
Happy frogging , 
Darren Meyer


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

does anyone know their temp range in natural habitat? sounds almost like they are breeding at the top end of their temp range. some seasonal fluxes(tanks cooling before the heat kicks on) or somewhat coolr temps in the winter may be why your getting fall success. plus the size of those clutches. i know epis throw big ones but... i have seen problems like this(sporadic success, eggs half forming then dissolving and avg. 2 eggs /day or more) when i first started out and used to keep things around 80. things near the wall would breed better in winter because those tanks werent getting out of the low 70`s and were in the lo 60s at nite. i havent bred imitator or tricolor successfully since i moved out of the poorly insulated house and back then they were seasonal breeders.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

Hmm if it is mold i would possibly try putting it on a paper towel moistened with methelyene blue in a petri fish. It is tough to say. Good luck and if you get any results let me know.


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## Alan (Jan 12, 2005)

An update: The center of the clutch pictured about started to get a faint mold halo. Having seen this many time before I decided to take the drastic step of cutting the top off the film container and trying to salvage some eggs.

Under bright light and a 10X magnifier I can see the early stage tad development - so I know that the clutch was fertilized. I carefully cut away the good eggs and as carefully as possible (aided by MB spray) slid the good eggs into small petrie dishes - 3 per dish. My strategy is to divide them to hopefully have some survive.

I remain perplexed why the clutch molds when I'm certain tad development has started. The clutch had been well misted with methelene blue.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

rather mysterious in my opinion, perhaps it is possible that they are being contaiminated within the viv evn before you take them out which my be a problem which is rather unfixable.

Also a couple degrees higher or lower in your "egg boxes" my possibly be enough to inhibit or prevent the mold from taking ahold.

My only confusion is how could they still mold even if methlyene blue or other mold inhibitor is covering them?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Alan,

Although I don't work with Zaparo, I have seen the problem that you describe with other species. Ultimately I stumbled upon the approach that Darren describes, i.e. flooding the egg mass with water so that the eggs are totally submerged with or without methylene blue or black water extract.

Contrary to what I've seen reported, PDF eggs are far more robust to being immersed while they develop. I believe the trick if you want to call it that is to ensure that the submerged eggs have adequate access to air so a large surface area to volume ratio appears to suffice.

Another aspect to consider is the amount of methylene blue that is being used. I have used methylene blue with problematic species at fairly high concentrations, probably 1 drop in 25-100 milliliters of water. I basically start low and crank up the concentration over time if lower levels aren't cutting it. I find my need for antifungal measures appears to fluctuate over time....I was doing pretty well over the summer simply using tadpole tea for eggs but since I started seeing molding problems as summer ended, have resorted to reintroducing methylene blue into the process.

It may be (speculation here) that the amount of methylene blue provided by misting just isn't adequate to keep the fungal growth down in your situation. 

My caveat about submerging eggs and use of high concentration methylene blue solution is that these observations are not all inclusive (probably covering about 15 species but not comprehensive). I am certain that there are PDF species where the eggs are sensitive to submersion and/or high concentration methylene blue. 

But it sounds like you have little to lose in your battle to bring Zaparo clutches to hatching so you might want to run some experiments. 

Best of luck to you and hope you hit on a condition that works for you.

Bill


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## Darren Meyer (May 22, 2004)

I might add that the eggs I find that are laid places other than filmcontainers are all bad . But the ones in black filmcontainers are always good . Reason being is a I believe that zaparo will quickly squirt out a few eggs (girls that is :lol: ) if frightened .
I've seen it quite a few times myself if I startle them ....possibly yet another defencive method 8) 
here is a picture of a typical clutch laid 10/5 








Also all of mine errupt early in compairason to dendros and very small . So that's the other reason why I place them in 1/2 in of water (so I don't have to transport them into anything else . Once they hatch out I leave them be for atleast 5 days until I seperate into indivudal deli cups . 
Guess we should start a care sheet .
'Happy frogging ,
Darren Meyer


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## Alan (Jan 12, 2005)

Bill & Darren: Thanks for your thoughts on this. I have increased the concentration of MB a bit as well as the water level. The next few days will tell whether this approach is fruitful. I have no information on the toxicity level of various concentration of methelene blue on PDF eggs - but clearly the standard concentration wasn't effective for me in this case. If this approach is (more) effective then I may run future experiments as varying MB concentrations to determine the appropriate concentration for these problems eggs.

Regards,
Alan


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## Alan (Jan 12, 2005)

Bill & Darren: After the egg mass surgery to remove spoiled egges and an unusually heavy treatment of MB I had the first three tads hatch out apparently no worse for the wear for the MB. It *appears that I have another nine yet to hatch.

Lesson learned is an early MB treatment at strong concentration 24 hours after they are discovered and allow them to mature in 1/4" of water with MB until hatching.

Thanks for your input!

Alan Z.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Very cool and congratulations!! Yeah cranking up the methylene blue can be a bit nerve wracking....I've had tadpoles hatch out literally blue though with no ill effects. Good luck with the tadpoles and hopefully you'll have more success in the future.

Bill


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2007)

Hey Alan, how have things been progressing with this issue?


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## Alan (Jan 12, 2005)

Use of methlyne blue is clearly a substantial help to the mold problem in Zaparo eggs. I cannot explain why it is that of all the morphs I have - only Zap eggs seem to have this problem. I am able to salvage about half of the clutch. The odd thing about the mold is that it happens both before and after noticeable tad development.

To help others that may observe this problem - I've found that I have to watch for mold every day after pulling eggs. I submerge Zaparo eggs in a triple strength MB solution. Once it starts - it moves through the clutch very rapidly and can spoil the clutch in 2-3 days. Once noticed - I perform surgery to separate an egg with the characteristic "white halo" around it to prevent the mold/fungus from spreading to good eggs with tad development. This egg separation is a little delicate.

I've had about a dozen Zaps morph out to froglets - and the froglets are VERY small (slightly smaller than a freshly-morphed Pumilio tad).
In order to deal with this small froglet size (came as a surprise/learning point to me) I created a grow-out viv for them that is teeming with springtails (wingless fruitflies are too large for the first 3-4 weeks). I lost 3-4 froglets due to being unprepared for their need for springtails only.

Hope some of this helps someone in the future.

Alan Z.


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