# Froglet faking death?



## kthehun89 (Jul 23, 2009)

So I was moving my Tinc froglet from its 12x12x18 exoterra to its new 20g terrestrial set up and I witnessed something quite fascinating. I was using a pen to cajole it into a deli cup, and all of a sudden it stretched out completely and opened its mouth while laying lifeless on the ground. I was tripping out because it seriously looked like the little bastard died in front of me. I still got him into the new tank, and he decided to stop messing around and started acting normal and hopped away after a minute or two, enjoying a fruit fly or two on his merry way. 

Has anyone else noticed this behavior at all???


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Dart frogs don't fake death- it sounds like a seizure to me. I've had it happen, and it usually is not a good sign. Seizures can be brought on by lack of calcium, for example, and induced by stress. How often are you supplementing, what are you supplementing with, and how old are the supplements? Search around the disease/illness section here on Dendroboard for more info on this.
Good luck,
Bryan


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

This is most likely a calcium deficiency. When stressed the muscles seize and sometimes twitch. You need to address this quickly or it could lead to his death.
What have you been dusting with, how often, and how old are your supplements? It sounds like you need to address your supplement problem.
In the meantime, you should order this product as quickly as possible. Repashy RescueCal + (5.3 oz Jar) - Calcium Supplements | Josh's Frogs This product is designed to help with extremely low blood calcium levels like your frog is suffering from.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Beat me to it Bryan.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> This is most likely a calcium deficiency. When stressed the muscles seize and sometimes twitch. You need to address this quickly or it could lead to his death.
> What have you been dusting with, how often, and how old are your supplements? It sounds like you need to address your supplement problem.
> In the meantime, you should order this product as quickly as possible. Repashy RescueCal + (5.3 oz Jar) - Calcium Supplements | Josh's Frogs This product is designed to help with extremely low blood calcium levels like your frog is suffering from.


would this also account for a tree frog to suddenly bounce off the walls of the tank with no stimulus??? I supplement D3, and vitamins each 2x a week on the crickets...how can I tell whether the supplements are out of date?? This one Leptopelis Ulu. has never done it before (by the way...if anyone comes across females Ulus, my three boys would LOVE some company.....)


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## kthehun89 (Jul 23, 2009)

Ahh, so it seems I have a calcium deficiency on my hands. I dust with Rep Cal and herptivite with every feeding, but I can see how the age of the supplement is important. they are like 3 years old. I ordered the RescueCal+ now. 

How should I administer this supplement to the froglet?

thanks


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

kthehun89 said:


> Ahh, so it seems I have a calcium deficiency on my hands. I dust with Rep Cal and herptivite with every feeding, but I can see how the age of the supplement is important. they are like 3 years old. I ordered the RescueCal+ now.
> 
> How should I administer this supplement to the froglet?
> 
> thanks


If the frog is deficient in vitamin D3, then adding a source of calcium doesn't do it any good. You have to address the D3 deficiency first. You need to also order a complete supplement like Repashy Calcium plus or Rep-Cal.. (although with Rep-cal you would also need a balancing supplement since Rep-cal only contains calcium carbonate and D3..)

Ed


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm not doubting any of the above statements, as this could've been my case as well...
Last year, an adult tinc I had just bought did something very similar (but without the mouth open) shortly after introducing him to his new tank. He was literally limp and could be turned over. I called the seller asking him if there'd been a prior issue like this or if these frogs play dead and he said, no. As soon as I put his limp body into a plastic tub with wet paper towels, he was bouncing off the walls like a freak. I never did any special treatments, and he's now alive and breeding.

Should I be concerned about this now, a year later?

Tommy


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Doubt it, sounds like a stress induced seizure. I had a pumilio froglet do the same when I opened its QT container to apply a drop of ivermectin to it - it stretched out (seized), I applied the drop and left it alone and it's been fine since (about 2 years later).


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Judy S said:


> would this also account for a tree frog to suddenly bounce off the walls of the tank with no stimulus??? I supplement D3, and vitamins each 2x a week on the crickets...how can I tell whether the supplements are out of date?? This one Leptopelis Ulu. has never done it before (by the way...if anyone comes across females Ulus, my three boys would LOVE some company.....)


I'm sorry Judy, I have absolutely NO experience with tree frogs and haven't ever seen a dart do that. Maybe Ed could help there.



kthehun89 said:


> Ahh, so it seems I have a calcium deficiency on my hands. I dust with Rep Cal and herptivite with every feeding, but I can see how the age of the supplement is important. they are like 3 years old. I ordered the RescueCal+ now.
> 
> How should I administer this supplement to the froglet?
> 
> thanks


It should come with very specific directions on the package. I'm pretty sure the instructions are on the link I gave you too. I've never needed to dose it myself so that's about all I can tell you. Make sure you read Ed's input too. I did not realize the Rescue Cal did not come with D3 but your calcium is useless without it. 3 year old supplements probably have little to no D3. My daily supplement of choice is Repashy Calcium Plus. You should get them started on that right away too. It will take care of all your calcium and vitamin needs all in one. You probably still want the Rescue Cal at the point you are at now, but once you get his levels up, you won't use the Rescue Cal anymore and will instead rely on the Repashy Calcium Plus for pretty much all his needs. I think that you will find that the vast majority on DB like the Repashy Calcium Plus. Many of us also use some Repashy SuperPig now and then but that is just to enhance your frogs colors so is not a necessary supplement. 



jdooley195 said:


> I'm not doubting any of the above statements, as this could've been my case as well...
> Last year, an adult tinc I had just bought did something very similar (but without the mouth open) shortly after introducing him to his new tank. He was literally limp and could be turned over. I called the seller asking him if there'd been a prior issue like this or if these frogs play dead and he said, no. As soon as I put his limp body into a plastic tub with wet paper towels, he was bouncing off the walls like a freak. I never did any special treatments, and he's now alive and breeding.
> 
> Should I be concerned about this now, a year later?
> ...


Hey Tommy, I assume that you have been dusting with a quality calcium supplement on a regular basis? If so, his calcium levels should really be up and at a normal level by now.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> I did not realize the Rescue Cal did not come with D3 but your calcium is useless without it. 3 year old supplements probably have little to no D3. .


Since the supplements are that old it is possible that there could be other contributing deficiences for the seizures. For example deficiencies in B12 can also cause seizures but the most probable is D3. 

In a supplement that old, vitamin A, and E as well as the water soluble vitamins are all going to have oxidized to some extent so the frog probably has multiple induced nutritional issues. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Judy S said:


> would this also account for a tree frog to suddenly bounce off the walls of the tank with no stimulus???


 
Judy,

It is unlikely that deficiences are causing tha behavior. That sounds more like a flight response. You have to remember that sound or vibrations can also be a source of that trigger. 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed said:


> Since the supplements are that old it is possible that there could be other contributing deficiences for the seizures. For example deficiencies in B12 can also cause seizures but the most probable is D3.
> 
> In a supplement that old, vitamin A, and E as well as the water soluble vitamins are all going to have oxidized to some extent so the frog probably has multiple induced nutritional issues.
> 
> Ed


So the best course of action, Ed, would be getting him on Repashy Calcium Plus right away, right? Do you think the Rescue Cal should still be used?


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## kthehun89 (Jul 23, 2009)

I went ahead and bought some repashy clacium plus at the store today and startred using it immediately with todays feeding. I still ordered the RescueCal just in case, and will occasionally supplement with it.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> So the best course of action, Ed, would be getting him on Repashy Calcium Plus right away, right? Do you think the Rescue Cal should still be used?


Typically deficencies respond quickly when provided with the correct supplements. It is only when bone deformation has occured do we tend to not see a quick recovery as the damage is permanent. 


Ed


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