# Orchid hybrids and crossbreeding



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

With my (relatively) new interest and thus research into plants (and hideously expensive mini-orchids!!!), I was wondering what people's thoughts are on hybridizing orchids. We are very against hybridization of our frogs, are there similar schools of thought on orchids? This is out of curiosity, and with no knowledge on the subject.


----------



## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Orchids can be likened to kingsnakes. Some people prefer pure species (and even going as far as locality), while others are for the DFW model. I grow both, personally. The big difference between orchids and animals is animals cannot be propagated asexually.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I prefer to collect species orchids these days, but i do love orchid hybridization. My favorite hybrids are Bulbophyllum and poly-genera Oncidiums alliance hybrids

I love the fact that you can create a 5 way inter genus hybrid and still get sexually viable offspring. Only with orchids is this possible


----------



## LoganR (Oct 25, 2013)

I have grown and appreciated some hybrids, and they can be amazingly beautiful, but when it comes to mini-orchids, I strongly prefer species orchids.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Most people doing hybridization dont even focus on the minis- theres a strong emphasis on big, waxy, multi colored and patterned flowers. 

I think Bulbophyllum is the coolest genus to hybridize, because you can change the morphology of the flowers so drastically, theres just SO MUCH diversity in the genus to play with


Youd never make any waves hybridizing Restrepia, who would even know the difference? HA!


----------



## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't think you'd get stigmatized in either orchid or frog hobbies for purchasing/owning/propagating hybrid orchids as it is a very common thing and acceptable.

In fact, I think some people prefer hybrids because they are more forgiving in terms of care. I think a lot of species have a very narrow tolerance for the right conditions to grow and flower, whereas hybrids have a more broad tolerance, I think the idea being that it combines the requirements for both species that are crossed.


----------



## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

frogparty said:


> I prefer to collect species orchids these days, but i do love orchid hybridization. My favorite hybrids are Bulbophyllum and poly-genera Oncidiums alliance hybrids
> 
> I love the fact that you can create a 5 way inter genus hybrid and still get sexually viable offspring. *Only with orchids is this possible*


You sure about that? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by 5 way inter generic?


----------



## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

With what other plants can it be done?


----------



## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

I think he means a hybrid using at least 5 genera (in the same tribe) to create a hybrid.
An example (I had to look this up as I'm not into hybrids) is Brilliandeara. That is a genus created using Aspasia X Brassia X Cochlioda X Miltonia X Odontoglossum X Oncidium.

I remember meeting an old hobbyist whose goal was to create the most complex orchid hybrid that he could. I don't remember what it was or how many genera were actually involved, but I do remember the resulting flower was a non-descript mustardy brown little thing. It was wonderful to meet him and hear about it though. He seemed so happy and proud as he explained what he did.

I also agree with what others have already said. Hybridizing plants and frogs have the same "dangers" to the purist. But with orchids there is asexual propagation as well as self-pollination.
That being said, I worry a little about the hybridizing of some Bulbophyllums. I have already seen images of hybrids that blur the lines of sections within Bulbophyllum that aren't worked out yet.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

That's exactly what I mean Chuck. Thanks


----------



## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i need to get my 2 cents in quick on this thread. i also keep species and hybrids and think there is plenty of interest too keep both things going in the hobby. i must disagree with the epiphytes comment on assexual propagation of animals. that comment is correct for alot of things that we think of as animals but remember that most corals, which are animals, are assexually propagated in the hobby. my next issue is about the crossing of restrepias. even in a genus of relatively similar appearing species there is a possibility that a cross could result is an offspring with quite different traits than the parents. however i also dont envision a booming industry revolving around the hybridization of restrepias.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

My point is..... with the fact that each Restrepia species having dozens of cultivars that lok so different in color, pattern, and synsepal shape, how would you, the casual orchid purchaser, know the difference?


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Im not saying that a R. chocoensis x pelyx cross isnt interesting sounding, but I guess I feel the same way about Restrepia as I do about dart frogs. Nature already provides SO MUCH variance within the species, why not focus on locality specific clones if possible


----------



## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Are you saying 5 different genera being crossed all at once? Like 4 sets of pollinia all going into one flower? 

Bc I'm fairly certain bromeliads can all be bounced around within their respective sections. Like an xAndrolaechmea x xNeotanthus then the offspring of that put on something like Bilbergia. Or am I wrong here? 

Suppose I should give my opinion on the topic.

I don't like hybrid orchids but I do like hybrid Bromeliads. Some plants I don't mind hybrids, others I can't stand them. I guess with orchids, there are some 30k species, there's plenty of diversity. I will say that it seems like some of the orchid hybrids that are created really do have the best of both worlds with respect to color, smell and ease of care.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Sorry Antone, not 5 all at once.


----------



## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

frogparty said:


> Sorry Antone, not 5 all at once.


Gotcha. Well I'm not 100% on the bromeliads. I will find out tomorrow when I ask one of the breeders.

Great topic.


----------



## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Frogtofall said:


> Bc I'm fairly certain bromeliads can all be bounced around within their respective sections. Like an xAndrolaechmea x xNeotanthus then the offspring of that put on something like Bilbergia. Or am I wrong here?


Oh yeah, Bromeliads. I want me a Neoquesbillaecmanthophytum


----------



## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

epiphytes etc. said:


> Oh yeah, Bromeliads. I want me a Neoquesbillaecmanthophytum


Haha!


----------



## Ray (May 12, 2009)

As an orchid grower who has done some hybridizing, I see positives in both hybrids and species. For one, a hybrid might bring characteristics you'd not see in a species. 

SO going back to the original query in this thread, what is wrong with frog hybrids?


----------



## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Ray, I just wanted to clarify that the OP was really only asking about hybridizing orchids.

Hybridizing frogs is generally frowned upon in the hobby (and especially on the boards). This includes the hybridization of different locales/morphs of frogs. I imagine those in the orchid hobby that are against hybridization have similar reasons as froggers. In short, there are both health related reasons, and preservation reasons why hobbyists are against it.

If you're really interested, there is a very thorough discussion of the topic on this thread that I recommend you look through:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/3449-mixing-multispecies-exhibits.html


----------



## Ray (May 12, 2009)

Thanks for pointing me to that thread.

There really aren't "health issues" related to orchid hybridization, the pathogen transfer vectors can be a lot simpler than sexual contact - water splashing, for example - making the contact of pollinia with viscidium to be of relatively no consequence. I have also read that there are virus-blocking mechanisms present in orchids that prevent seed from being infected, but I know little of that.

I'll add to that that a plant that is ailing, will likely not be successfully pollinated in the first place, and if there is a genetic mismatch is present, even if a capsule appears to mature, it likely won't contain any viable seed.

Then there is the "minor" detail in that I can force cross-breeding in plants emanating from totally different environs, whereas in a frog, it is only in cases of overlapping territories that interbreeding is even possible, and who's to say they'll even WANT to! (Or do you folks "milk" frogs like they do fish in hatcheries?)


----------



## epiphyte (Jan 25, 2011)

My recent blog entry is on this topic...Selaginella Doesn't Smell Like Vanilla

Perhaps this is the bottom line...

Survival depends on fitness and fitness depends on the combination of "inputs". Therefore we limit fitness by limiting possible input combinations.


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I think it is a question of ethics (ethics related to the species and genera, to the ways of breeding animals or growing plants, the habits formed over time, the rules of the various hobbies, etc.): if hybridization is generally accepted for some plants or reptiles, it is not for dartfrogs.
That said, I have hybrid bromeliads in my vivs. I am happy with them. And while I would not buy hybrid dartfrogs, I would not have any problems in buying hybrids orchids suitable for our viv. This is just my 2 cents.


----------



## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

It's like I said before, unlike animals (except corals, sponges and other weirdos), plants can always be propagated via cuttings or tissue culture, etc. That means the pure species will likely always be around in somebody's collection, and able to be disseminated.


----------

