# Making a "Live Wall": hardware help



## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Hello guys,

I am planning a live wall. 
Well, I should start from here: I am making a planted tank. Above the rear glass, I am wanting to make a live wall. I have bought Matala and Spyra from folius.

My question is that how do I make it?
I was thinking of pasting Matala to a piece of plywood and then I will attach some 2x4 wood from that plywood to my aquarium cabinet.
Like this photo here.









But the problem is that the plywood on the back of the tank is very thin like 0.5mm. It won't hold the weight of the whole live wall.

What are my other options? Do I HAVE to use Matala? Can I use something else to make the wall? Like the foam-y spray that we use to make the vivarium background?
I can maybe use that on a sheet of styroafoam or even a sheet of acrylic?
But again, how would I attach that to the cabinet?
Doing something on the wall isn't an option because we rent this apt. Doing anything to the tank is also not an option. I can only attach it to the cabinet.

I am wanting to have a lot of moss, some micro orchids and some air plants etc. I will have a humidifier run constantly so humidity should not be a big problem.

As you can see, it is a very difficult thing to explain. But I would really really appreciate any comments or suggestions. I really am not able to think what can I do here.
Here are some photos for you guys to get a better perspective of my cabinet and tank:
That's my 6 months old shiba, "Cheeni" for size reference. The tank is 36"x18"x18"


















This Matala stuff is pretty heavy.









Thanks,
Sumer.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

So many views no suggestions :/ 
Anyone, please?


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## RandallW201 (Jun 27, 2014)

I think we all are wondering how to build one, much like you. Your off to a great start though. Looks like it should turn out great....


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Hi Sumer,

I've got a bit of experience with this type of project, I'd love to help!

A few comments:
- The open-top aquarium is going to throw out a lot of humidity, I would be more concerned with too much than too little.
- The matala/spyra combo is your best bet for this project, I doubt you'll find a better set of materials for what you're trying to do

*An important question* - How do you plan on lighting this structure? I've found lighting these kinds of projects properly to be unusually complicated.

Building tips:
- Use PVC pipes as a support structure. Cut out parts of the matala and run (cleaned) PVC piping up the back of it for support.
- Avoid wood, it will rot and doesn't work well in this environment
- Use silicone to bond the materials together
- Silicone the PVC pipes to your tank, silicone the matala to the pipes, etc

Water is heavy, plants are light. Chances are you won't need too much support for the plants you're looking at growing but you need to make sure everything is sturdy enough to handle being water logged. 

Have you considered attaching Manzanita to the background? If you can find the right pieces you can attach them to the matala and use them as a balancing mechanism. Also they look awesome.

Hope this helps!
-Everett


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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

I might suggest a sheet of expanded PVC as a backing material. It is light, strong, waterproof, and will hold stainless steel screws or staples so that you can mount the Matala and your support structure at the back. Not super easy to find sometimes, but not impossible.

Hope this helps. I agree that lighting this project may be challenging, but with solid support holding up the wall portion you should be able to build off of it to hang a suitable fixture.


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## VAnative (Jan 4, 2015)

Might I suggest attaching some 2x4s inside the cabinet, then the supports outside the cabinet can be attached to those inner supports. However, I agree that the plywood will be saturated and will probably not hold up well. However, if you go with pic supports instead of wood, they can be screwed into the inner supports as well.

I hope that is as clear as it is in my head...lol

By the way, I remember seeing this cabinet on TPT. You were asking about finishing the inside if I'm not mistaken? Did you settle on how to do that?


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## ShadeTree (Jan 25, 2014)

I would second the suggestion of XPVC for the backboard. Its not cheap. I have to buy it in 4x8" sheets. 12mm would offer good support.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

It would add considerably to the structural complexity, but, once you figure out what your backing material will be, you could also run a spray bar above the top of the wall and let it trickle water down the wall, keeping the roots of the plants moist all of the time. This would allow you to grow things like java fern, bolbitis fern, lots of different mosses, etc. A decent sized pump might be necessary because of the head and you might have to add short side walls to keep the water contained. It might look awesome, though. Also, you might have to add a sloped piece of something flat to prevent the water from splashing into the water of the planted tank . This would prevent disturbing the surface and losing your CO2 (assuming you are planning on doing CO2).

I liked the idea of having Manzanita sticking out from the wall giving you some nice attachment points for other kinds of plants. Also, you could have overlarge pieces of wood (Manzanita would work great here, too) that stick up out of the water of the planted tank. This would allow more types of attachments but it would also allow you to grow plants out of the water, if you want. In my tank, emersed growth from the top is a sign of neglect  In your tank, though, you could explore having immersed and emersed growth on the same plant. 

I wish you luck and hope it pans out just the way you want it to!

Mark


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

One element to include would be to take advantage of the mediums ability to wick moisture by having some of the material suspended in a water source.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

EverettC said:


> Hi Sumer,
> 
> I've got a bit of experience with this type of project, I'd love to help!
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your comment.
I will explain my lighting setup in the next comment. 
I cannot attach anything to the tank itself. I have to find another way to attach this whole live wall to the cabinet.
I have a ton of manzanita lying around. A good friend collects manzanita in CA and he sends me some nice pieces. I sure will consider it using on the wall.



Epiphile said:


> I might suggest a sheet of expanded PVC as a backing material. It is light, strong, waterproof, and will hold stainless steel screws or staples so that you can mount the Matala and your support structure at the back. Not super easy to find sometimes, but not impossible.
> 
> Hope this helps. I agree that lighting this project may be challenging, but with solid support holding up the wall portion you should be able to build off of it to hang a suitable fixture.


I will explain the lighting in the next comment. 
I found a place which has EPVC sheet. They are going to send me a sheet 36"x15" tomorrow. I explained them what I am wanting to do and they got super excited. Their time and my office time is the same so I cannot go to their shop but they said just pay $15 and we will send someone to your house to deliver this piece.



VAnative said:


> Might I suggest attaching some 2x4s inside the cabinet, then the supports outside the cabinet can be attached to those inner supports. However, I agree that the plywood will be saturated and will probably not hold up well. However, if you go with pic supports instead of wood, they can be screwed into the inner supports as well.
> 
> I hope that is as clear as it is in my head...lol
> 
> By the way, I remember seeing this cabinet on TPT. You were asking about finishing the inside if I'm not mistaken? Did you settle on how to do that?


Hey, thanks for the suggestion.
Yes, I did figure that out and updated the thread there. I used polyurethane and then paint to cover the inside of the cabinet. I will attach a photo down in the next comment.

I like your idea of using EPVC as a support inside the cabinet. And so would I attach the PVC pipes to this EPVC which would be inside the cabinet? This is the idea with great potential. I will explain what I understand from it in the next comment.




ShadeTree said:


> I would second the suggestion of XPVC for the backboard. Its not cheap. I have to buy it in 4x8" sheets. 12mm would offer good support.


I could get only quarter inch. Would that be not enough?



Encyclia said:


> It would add considerably to the structural complexity, but, once you figure out what your backing material will be, you could also run a spray bar above the top of the wall and let it trickle water down the wall, keeping the roots of the plants moist all of the time. This would allow you to grow things like java fern, bolbitis fern, lots of different mosses, etc. A decent sized pump might be necessary because of the head and you might have to add short side walls to keep the water contained. It might look awesome, though. Also, you might have to add a sloped piece of something flat to prevent the water from splashing into the water of the planted tank . This would prevent disturbing the surface and losing your CO2 (assuming you are planning on doing CO2).
> 
> I liked the idea of having Manzanita sticking out from the wall giving you some nice attachment points for other kinds of plants. Also, you could have overlarge pieces of wood (Manzanita would work great here, too) that stick up out of the water of the planted tank. This would allow more types of attachments but it would also allow you to grow plants out of the water, if you want. In my tank, emersed growth from the top is a sign of neglect  In your tank, though, you could explore having immersed and emersed growth on the same plant.
> 
> ...


Thanks much for your detailed comment. So many great ideas there.
I was thinking of putting a humidifier to do that. But I can use one of my dosing pumps to do this. Their tube is just like the airline tubing and can be easily covered with some moss. 
Yes, I had planned to attach a piece if plexiglass on the bottom of the wall so that the water would come back in the tank without making splashes. This would also make sure that the floor remains dry. 

I like the idea of having manzanita sticking out of the wall but then it will block the light going in the tank. If it'll not come out a lot from the wall, it's OK but not if it comes out like a branch. I will try a few mock-ups and will update you with photos.
My tank is going to be a semi dutch style tank. I have been preparing and planning since a long time. I have everything planned for the tank part but this live moss part isn't what I have tried before. I am so glad I am able to seek assistance and help from you all here.



oldlady25715 said:


> One element to include would be to take advantage of the mediums ability to wick moisture by having some of the material suspended in a water source.


Yes, I have this in my mind. I am hoping that it will have some feature like "capillary action". Do you think it will 'suck up' water if a corner is in water?


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

So here's what I have done for the lighting:









It will have basically two LED units hanging. One big one for the tank and one small one for the wall. The LED unit that will illuminate the wall will have 6 XML2 white LEDs (CW + WW) and 1 royal blue all running at 1000mA.
These LEDs will be controlled by a controller to give them a sunrise/sunset effect. The lower part of the wall will also receive light from the light that will illuminate the tank. So the extra light is mainly for the top part of the wall.

Here's he inside of my cabinet that I painted. I used some cork liner and some non slip liner to make it somewhat vibration resistant. 









The wall: Just so that I understand it correct, I will have Expandable PVC as the base layer, then it will have matala on it and then on the matala I will have Spyra, right? 
What good Matala does? Also, do you know how can I cut it? I think they use a heated blade to cut it but I don't have that! 
How would I attach manzanita to matala? Will I have to use insulating foam to do that?
Can I just use insulating foam on the EPVC sheet and then attach Spyra on the insulating foam? 

So many questions. I will write an instructable on it once I have it figured out, I promise.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is what I understood:









The base would be EPVC, then it will have Matala on it and then I will have Spyra on matala. 

How to cut Matala is a big problem. It's so thick and I don't know how do I approach the cutting.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Something like this:


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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

Something like square aluminum tubing may be easier to work with as a support structure; having a flat surface will make it easier to affix the panel, as well as attaching the support to your cabinet (which looks great, by the way).

Dropping the bottom of the Matala/Spyra layers just below the waterline should prevent splashing or any surface agitation.

A few passes with a sharp Olfa blade and a straightedge will probably do the trick for cutting the Matala if it's anything like Epiweb.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

The DB person, Frograck, used to sell Matala...PM him...


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Epiphile said:


> Something like square aluminum tubing may be easier to work with as a support structure; having a flat surface will make it easier to affix the panel, as well as attaching the support to your cabinet (which looks great, by the way).
> 
> Dropping the bottom of the Matala/Spyra layers just below the waterline should prevent splashing or any surface agitation.
> 
> A few passes with a sharp Olfa blade and a straightedge will probably do the trick for cutting the Matala if it's anything like Epiweb.


Awesome. Thanks much for suggesting square aluminum tubing. It is readily available at home depot. And it'd be lighter and more sturdy than PVC.

Someone on the other forum suggested that I simply put a layer of plywood on the back of cabinet. This would allow me to attach the aluminum pipes to the back of the cabinet much more easily. I kind of like this idea.

Matala is no where close to epiweb. It's very thick; about 4-5 cms and is made of very thick plastic coir. It's heavy AND very sturdy. But anyway, I will do what you suggested. Take a utility knife and work on it. Labor intensive work but can't seem to have other option.

I am leaving for India tomorrow. Doing a collection trip in Souther India where I'll be looking for fish, aquatic plants, birds, frogs, terrestrial mosses, ferns . Hoping to bring back some nice photos and a few samples of mosses and ferns. 
I will make sure I post some photos here. You guys have been such a great help


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## edgeofthefreak (Jan 2, 2014)

sumer said:


> Matala is no where close to epiweb. It's very thick; about 4-5 cms and is made of very thick plastic coir. It's heavy AND very sturdy. But anyway, I will do what you suggested. Take a utility knife and work on it. Labor intensive work but can't seem to have other option.


I've only recently discovered Matala as well. I don't have any yet, but a suggestion I've seen for cutting is to use gardening shears. Looks a little cartoonish, but they'll get the job done, and in a straight line if you need it that way. Also, turkey shears might be a smaller, more agile option.

btw, this idea is gorgeous.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I made some much needed progress.
I bought a piece of plywood; put some flooring vinyl on it and attached it to the back of the cabinet using L brackets. Those L brackets look so ugly though.
I will have to cover them with something. Maybe I will take a photo of the pattern on the cabinet, take a print out of it on a laminated sheet and put the cutting of it on the L bracket. 

Anyway, here's what I did:









Then me and my girlfriend were debating on the hight of the live wall. She wanted it to be 18" or more and I was saying 12". My main aquarium light will hang in front of it so I have to think about that as well.
Finally we settled at 15".
Just to see how it *feels*, I cut a 15"x36" piece of plywood and tried putting it where the live wall will be:









I also cut matala with this scissor like thing:









Now I am going to order the PVC sheet.

But before I do that, you all will have to help me pick the pillar support which will hold the live wall.
I saw these three things at the home depot. They are all aluminum.

*1. Which one should I choose?
2. My cabinet is 30" high, tank is another 15" high and then the live wall would be another 15". This height is 60" in total. How long should these support pipes be? And at what points should I put screws through these pipes into the plywood behind the cabinet?*


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I just ordered 10mm thick sheet of extended PVC (EPVC) of size 36"x15".
I also ordered strips (1"x36"; 2 pieces of 1"x15") to put on the sides of the main big sheet to keep the water from falling around.

Any suggestions on the aluminum support?


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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

I'd say go with the 3/4" square profile in the standard 48" length: 2 or 3 of these should hold the wall quite well, and will give you 18" for affixing to the frame of your cabinet.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Coming along nicely  If it is possible, you might consider three or even four of the aluminum supports to prevent warping in the backing material. I think any of those pieces of aluminum stock would work well for this project. I suggest going with whatever is cheapest and whatever you think will be easiest to work with. 

Mark


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Epiphile said:


> I'd say go with the 3/4" square profile in the standard 48" length: 2 or 3 of these should hold the wall quite well, and will give you 18" for affixing to the frame of your cabinet.


Thank you so so much. You have been such a great help. I really appreciate your help.
I will go with the normal 48" length. I think 18" would give it enough strength. On these 18", I will put three screws through it on the cabinet.
Also, I love your profile photo. What kind of orchid is it? I haven't read anything on orchids yet so don't know much about them. I need to start doing that soon.



Encyclia said:


> Coming along nicely  If it is possible, you might consider three or even four of the aluminum supports to prevent warping in the backing material. I think any of those pieces of aluminum stock would work well for this project. I suggest going with whatever is cheapest and whatever you think will be easiest to work with.
> 
> Mark


Thank you so so much for your comment 
I will use 3 pieces to hold it. Two on the sides and one in the middle. That should be enough I guess. 
I appreciate your suggestions.


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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

sumer said:


> What kind of orchid is it?


Thanks. It's a photo of an unidentified Platystele species from Ecuador.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh my god! I just Googled "Platystele" and what I saw was amazing. That small orchids? Amazing. Are these called micro orchids? Such beautiful plants.

Once I have this wall setup, I will have to start thinking about the plants.
How will I attach the plants to the wall? Where will I get the plants etc. 

Do you think I will be able to find such orchids and mosses?
I don't even know how to take care of them. All I have had is the orchids that you find at grocery stores. The ones with big leaves.
I know they need humidity, they need some kind of moss to attach themselves to and they like it cool. Is that all?


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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm not sure that Platystele is a good place to start with this project: though the system will likely create a nice humid microclimate, these are not very forgiving plants and will decline rapidly if their culture isn't optimal. There are a ton of other orchid species that would love the setup you're planning, though.

As far as attaching plants to the wall, I've always used two layers of material and sndwiched the roots in between by cutting a slit in the top layer to form a sort of pocket, then stapling them shut with stainless steel staples. The felt material I work with is considerably more workable than the Matala you have, though.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Epiphile said:


> I'm not sure that Platystele is a good place to start with this project: though the system will likely create a nice humid microclimate, these are not very forgiving plants and will decline rapidly if their culture isn't optimal. There are a ton of other orchid species that would love the setup you're planning, though.
> 
> As far as attaching plants to the wall, I've always used two layers of material and sndwiched the roots in between by cutting a slit in the top layer to form a sort of pocket, then stapling them shut with stainless steel staples. The felt material I work with is considerably more workable than the Matala you have, though.


Ah! I get it now. So there are some *easy* species to start with. I should go with the easy ones first to build up my confidence. Can you please name a few small micro species that one should start with? And where would I be able to buy them?

Attaching the plants: Maybe I did not explain this quite well. So in my design, Matala is the second layer after the EPVC. On matala, there is going to be Spyra which I think would be easier to work with.
Does each orchid have separate way of getting attached or do all of them need to be attached the same way?
I just read a page where someone said that they use charcoaled bamboo covered with newzealand sphagnum moss to attach there orchids.
I can maybe attach some charcoaled bamboos to my live wall and then when I will need to attach an orchid, I will just put some sphagnum moss on the bamboo and then the orchid will go on that!


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I got the EPVC sheet 
I did not expect it to be this heavy though. It is not as heavy as plywood but it still is pretty heavy.
I went with 13mm thickness sheet. Now I need to find what kind of material would work as adhesive on it. I have read that Weldon 16 or silicon, both will work well. Maybe I will go with silicon. 



















Now before I fix this thing to the cabinet, I need to plan this thing all the way to the end. I need to figure out how would I plant the plants, what species etc. Any suggestions from you guys' sides?


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Okay.. So after talking to a lot of people I have decided not to use Matala. 
It will drain the water too quickly. 
Instead of that, I will use felt. Felt will stay moist for longer time and then spyra over the felt should suck water from the felt.

I am also looking at the micro irrigation tubing to make a drip system.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I made some progress 

So, repti fogger does blow out fog at the height of 5'-6'. But it's not enough to keep my wall well humid. So I am going to keep it as a backup.
I have a drip system that will keep the florafelt and spyra wet.
To mist the plants, I've ordered mistking ultimate system. 3 nozzles would be placed at 0", 16" and 36". 
I got some small containers made to keep my ferts and they turned out pretty well. So I am gonna get 2 bigger reservoirs made. 1 for the water for drip wall, and 2 for the water for mistking. Two different because the dripper would be a loop. The water which will come out of the wall will come back in this reservoir. And if in future I'd put some ferts or something on the wall, I don't want it to mix with mistkind container because that will also work as the supply for my Auto Top Off system for the tank.









I also got a J shaped "drain". I don't have any photos to share yet but it's gonna collect all the water that will come out of the wall and send it back to the container through a pipe. 

*Light:* I haven't talked about it yet. I wasn't very sure about the spectrum but I think now I have done enough homework. I wanted to make it a full spectrum light but then it won't look very good. So I am going to keep it like normal horticulture lights. High at 450-495 nm and then high again at 620-750nm. 
I am using Cree XM-L2 warm white, and Royal blues. My girlfriend wants that warm look of sunlight on the wall. I am not very sure though. I wanted some neutral whites just to keep it looking "cool" but hey, she's letting me do this and that is enough for a favor. Haha..

So, here's the heatsink that I have selected. It came pre-drilled to attach LEDs. Not possible to put a fan on it but I don't think that'd be a problem because I am not gonna fill every slot of the heatsink with LED. XML2 at 1000mA will produce very high light. I might have more light than needed


















I also made a container to keep the powersupply:









And it fits in there just perfect:









So these LEDs will be either on a StormX controller or maybe a Makers Controller. I have both sitting here. I have a coralux LDD board and a Makers 5up pro. I need to check which one would be better suited.
They both will do sunrise, sunset, thunderstorm and what not. Well, maybe orchids would like that 

To attach the light to the wall, I making some "Acrylic arms". These would get tighten on the back of the wall, and in the front they will hold the heatsink:









Now, I was worrying about changing the angle of the light. Then it clicked me that I can use small 1/4" ballheads to attach the heatsink to the acrylic arms. This will give me complete independence to move heatsink wherever I want. Found some on eBay canada:









So now, the idea is this (sorry for the wrong orientation):









And the mistking nozzles can also be attached to this arm. 

Now I just have to execute all the plans. I think I am going to do a lot of things tomorrow. I have to. So that I can put the plants on the wall and they can start growing before I start working on my planted tank. 
I sincerely thank all of you who have been helping me in this project. Without you guys, this thing was impossible.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Hello all,

I made some progress over the weekend.
I have installed the wall on the cabinet. Here are some photos:

I used some 2x3s to create some gap between the cabinet and the aluminum pipes. This will give me some space between the bottom of the wall and tank.










Halfway there..


















Almost there:









Then I worked on the EPVC sheet and put it on the aluminum pipes. I have used 1/4" bolts and nuts to do everything. So they are portable. If we are changing apartments, it is as easy as opening some nuts.









After this, worked on the light and made the heatsink ready. I had one 12" piece and one 18" piece. I joined them together and have this 30" long heatsink now.
I also got the MistKing ultimate system:









The acrylic arms which will hold nozzles and heatsink are being made. I should have them by Friday. 
The drip irrigation system is also here and is working fantastic. I have tested it. 
Then I have to put the felt and spyra on the EPVC sheet. Once that is done, I will put drip irrigation system. After that, light and misting system will have to go. 
Then the drainage duct will be installed. Acrylic containers are being made to be used as reservoirs.
And then FINALLY I will be able to put some plants on this thing


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Alright! Some more progress:
I made an outline sort of around the sheet to keep the water contained within the sheet. It's just an inch so it's functionality is questionable at the moment but we'll see.









I then covered the corners with some silicon. I am trying my best to save it from leaking:









Remember I told y'all about the drainage gully? Here's it:


















And then I picked up the acrylic arms this afternoon. They will hold my LED unit and mistking nozzles:


















I could have made some more progress today if this dumb fella had not done this. You can very well imagine what would have followed.
And BTW, she bought these shoes this past Sunday so that she can wear them on coming Friday at a party and...


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I am finally done with all the talks at the fishclubs and now would like to take no other projects in hand before I finish this darn project.
I made a little progress yesterday.
I capped the drainage gully from both the ends:

Acrylic pieces to cap the ends









The curve I made was perfect:


















And then I have started hoarding plants for the tank and the wall. Like this Bucephalandra 'pink lady' is doing great with just a couple sprays a day. I am sure with a msiting every two three hours, it will love it.








Some more buce for the tank:









And then some Anubias petite:









Tonight I will add the drainage to the gully. I will also test the gully for any leakages. I used WeldOn 16 to attach the caps but I have a feeling that it might have some leaks. 
And then, I am going to work on the LED unit.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Some more progress 
The drainage pipe is at place. I have attached the drainage gully to the main wall.
IT works great. Tested it for leaks and there are none.









And how it looks on the wall:









Now I am working on the light and have created this plan. I am going to go with the second plan which has 11 LEDs. Do you think I should add a UV to this?
RB means Royal blue.









I am hoping to make more progress over the weekend.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

*Things are 90% ready*

Update 05-11-2015
It's been a long time I have started this project and I was not seeing an end to it. So I worked two days on this thing and now I do see an end. I think it will take me two more weekends to finish this thing. I will have everything ready by the Memorial day weekend. Wall + Tank, both.

In the last update I had the drainage fixed to the wall. Next task was to fix the acrylic arms that will hold the light and the misting nozzles. 

Arms attached to the wall.









Then I reinforced the arms by adding some support. Those are acrylic tubes that I had lying around. Used sand paper to sand them down to the required shape. Took a long time to do that. Everything that sounds or seems easy is actually not. It takes a LOT more time than you think.


















There is a little sag on the arms when I attach the light and nozzles but I think that is OK. It should be able to take that load. If it will start to sag or anything, I will have to get thicker arms. Or maybe aluminum arms then? This is a a thing that I will have to see as time goes by. It is working well for now. Or maybe I will just attach other acrylic sheet on these arms?

Then, finally the ballheads that I had bought came from China. I think they sent it on a bullock cart. Took it one freaking month.









So they went on the arm:


















Then I tried putting the light on the ballheads. Worked just as I expected it to work.




































Then, I made some holes and put the mistking nozzles at place. Theoretically, everything will work. I did many calculations, used trigonometry to find the sweetest spot etc. Hopefully, it will work the same way in real life.









The next task was to fix the drip system at place. I used some cable holders (?) to attach the drip line to the wall. Those screws are stainless steel so they won't rust.









Then the only thing remaining was felt and spyra. 
I again used stainless steel 3/8" screws to attach it to the expanded PVC sheet.
This is the only thing I am worried about. I don't want this whole spyra and felt to slide down in my tank. I know that this spyra will become much more heavier after it'll soak the water. 
How do I make sure that it doesn't? I will test it before starting the tank to ensure that it stays there. Or maybe a few more screws?
I hid the screws using small paches of spyra that I put there using some gorilla glue.









I did a test before I got started on all of this just to see if the drainage was not touching the tank and it was. I had to put some washers to increase the gap between the cabinet and the aluminum pipes. Then it fit perfect:









Here's a *before* shot 









A peek inside the cabinet. Another big reservoir for the wall is going to get shipped today.









*What remains:*
1. Light: I am planning to make both: tank's and wall's light at the same time. I am gone all this week on an official tour so cannot work on it this week. 
Then this coming weekend I am doing a pregnancy shoot on Sat and hiking Mt Massive on Sunday. So the time is going to be limited. It'll take me a week to recover from Mt massive's massive hike. Haha.. So I think I will have it ready by the Memorial day weekend. That will give me 3 days to work on it non stop.
Everything is ready to be worked on. Specially these LEDs. They are so tempting:









2. Reservoir containers: This reservoir will have two parts. The first one will have DI water for the mistking. The second one will have water mixed with fertilizers for the drip system. It is going to be shipped today and I will have it in two-three days.

3. Plants: Once the light and reservoir is done, it'll be about the plants. I am in talks with a few people about the plants. I want small orchids, ferns, mosses and other creeping plants. Begonias would work well too.



Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments?


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

No comments in a long time here. That could mean two things:
1. Either I am doing it the right way that no one feels like making any comment
OR
2. I am doing it so wrong that people are thinking "It's not worth correcting him" LOL. 

I'd hope it's not the second one. 

Suggestions/Criticism, anyone?


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sumer, this is really coming together! The quality of the build really impresses me. You aren't just getting the job done. It is really going to look nice when you are finished. I can't wait to see what it looks like. 

The ball heads for the lighting are a really great idea. I made a semi-DIY setup using CREE arrays for my planted tank, too. They have been excellent. I think I have had them for 4 or 5 years now. Just make sure the heat sink works well enough to keep them cool. They aren't enclosed, though, and you have evaporative cooling going on all the time right close to them. One thing you might consider if it looks like they might get wet is putting one of those clear plastic tubes they sell at Home Depot to protect the large-diameter, 8 ft fluorescent tubes. I just cut them to the length I needed and slipped them over the heat sink. I have to dust them every now and then but they really protect the electronics from the water in the hood of my fish tank.

Keep up the good work!

Mark


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Encyclia said:


> Sumer, this is really coming together! The quality of the build really impresses me. You aren't just getting the job done. It is really going to look nice when you are finished. I can't wait to see what it looks like.
> 
> The ball heads for the lighting are a really great idea. I made a semi-DIY setup using CREE arrays for my planted tank, too. They have been excellent. I think I have had them for 4 or 5 years now. Just make sure the heat sink works well enough to keep them cool. They aren't enclosed, though, and you have evaporative cooling going on all the time right close to them. One thing you might consider if it looks like they might get wet is putting one of those clear plastic tubes they sell at Home Depot to protect the large-diameter, 8 ft fluorescent tubes. I just cut them to the length I needed and slipped them over the heat sink. I have to dust them every now and then but they really protect the electronics from the water in the hood of my fish tank.
> 
> ...


Mark,
Thanks much for your suggestions.
I actually forgot to talk about what I call "Splash Guard" for the LED unit. I have made the following using 3mm acrylic sheet. It will help keep the LEDs dry.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

**Updates** 05/19/2015

The wall is up and RUNNING.

Here's step by step description of what I did this past weekend and last night.

I started with the LED unit. I had already planned the color spectrum.
I put the LEDs on the heatsink, put optics on them (80 Degrees) and then wired them all. It was really easy to work with solderless LEDs. It took much less time.




















Makers 2UP Pro Driver. It can take upto 2 LDD drivers. I used one 1000D and one 700D Driver.









Here's the Driver with the Makers Controller. It can do some crazy fancy things like storm, peak noon hour etc. I am just using it so that I won't have to have a timer to switch on and off the lights. it will do that automatically.









The project box that will hold both : 2up Pro and Makers controller:









For the first time my project box doesn't look shabby.









I used inexpensive 1/4" Mono Phone plugs for the power connection:


















In the meanwhile I also made some *pockets* in the wall.









And then after attaching the splash guard, the light unit was ready



















This was my iPhone's camera that made it look this weird. In person I didn't see any color separation or disco:

















Only whites:









Only Royal Blue:









Then my reservoir also showed up.
I attached the bulkhead for mistking and tested it for leaks. No leaks 









Unfortunately there was a misunderstanding and the person who built this made a bigger hole by mistake. It was easy to take care though. I just pasted another piece of acrylic on the bigger hole and drilled a smaller hole then.









That was what I did over the weekend. Then last night I worked on the mistking unit. I installed the pump and connected all the nozzles to the acrylic arm. There was a glitch. The mist coming out of the nozzles was touching the splash gurad. I had to take out the ballheads. That pushed the heatsink closer to the acrylic arm and then mist wasn't touching the splash guard.
Here's a little video of mistking in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyWf2N02pH8

I will be setting up the drip system today and then I am ready for the plants


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I am making it a point to spend some time with you...this weekend...sharing your life and your viv....couple of cold beers, nightgown...and reading from beginning to end your epic build....keep posting....


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

^^ sounds hot! 😝


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

it will be for me.....


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Judy S said:


> I am making it a point to spend some time with you...this weekend...sharing your life and your viv....couple of cold beers, nightgown...and reading from beginning to end your epic build....keep posting....


Haha..
I just did that this morning. It was fun to go back a few weeks and read what I wrote while planning. Some things sounded funny and some awkward.
It sure is funny to take a moment, turn around and see what you did in the past.

But yeah, don't forget to let me know how you liked it once you have gone over it


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is a small video of my drip system working:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLnouwQggCA

I have been thinking about the frequency of misting system coming on. The timer it came with, can power it on and off 8 times a day.
I bought another one that does it 20 times a day. I programmed it to come on every 72nd minute but that is not enough I guess. My plants would need it every 15-20 minutes. That means I need a timer that can switch it on and off around 70 times a day.
The only option to do this is get some solid state relays, an arduino nano and write my own code. Put everything ina small box and run the mister through that.
Parts have been ordered and the build shall start (and finish) this weekend.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

"small" video??? After about two seconds I was watching a video of solar water pumps in that proverbial......Egypt....whot up?? 19 seconds....what were all the patches on the hygrolon??


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I made some *pockets* on spyra/ hygrolon. Might help if I have to put some aquarium soil for the plants. Just fill the pockets with soil and put the plants n the pocket.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

*Re: Making a "Live Wall": Ready to be planted*

A'ight, time for some more action.
I ordered some nice plants for the wall. They would be here by Friday or Sat. 

I recently discovered that mistking timer has only 8 on and off settings. Then I bought another minute timer that has 20 on and off settings but even that would make the mister come on every 1 hour 12 minutes in 24 hours. That was too long of a gap between two mistings. I was looking for something that will do this every 10 minutes for 20 seconds. 
So I decided to make my own. I bought a relay unit and an arduino nano. Some 6-7 lines of code and it was ready. Tested it with a 2Amp lamp and it worked great. Mistking pump takes about 1.5A current. I would be fine. The relay is solid state, so it should serve a long time. I ordered another one to keep as a backup. These things can go bad any time.
It costed me around $28. That includes a small project box, Arduino nano, solid state relay board, two power adapters and some wire. Almost the same cost as a mistking seconds times. I don't know much coding so I will have to connect it to computer every time I want to change the time settings. But I am planing to learn some more coding to make it somewhat self sufficient. I am thinking of using a rotary switch to help with this. This is a future project through 

Testing the Arduino nano and the relay board:









Two types of power adapters that I used:









A small project box:









And there you have it. My dumb code works only with one channel of the replay board. If I knew better ways to program it, I could have used it to control my drip system as well. Oh well!
The iPhone charger powers the Arduino nano which eventually powers the relay board. That three prong cable goes to the wall outlet and then my misting system power cord will go in the socket on the project box. Pretty simple and easy.









I was playing with Hoppy's new PAR meter. I was taking readings from the LED unit that I made for the wall. I will have to be specific while talking about the lights because I have two LED units next to each other. I am yet to take readings for the LED unit for the main planted tank. Here are the readings:

Around 5 inches from the light:









Around 9-10 inches:









Around 14 inches from the light:









At 17-18 inches:









Very right corner. Around 20-22 inches from the light:









I would call this DIY LED unit a success based on the PAR readings. The practical test for it would be to grow some plants 

My main tank's light is also complete. So 92% work has been completed.
What remains is:

1. Setting up the Pacific Sun Kore 5th for fertilizers, and water changes. Then calibrating it and testing with water.

2. Making the fertilizers stock solution for the tank. 

3. Attach some driftwood to the wall. I am using some N50 grade Neodymium magnets to attach the wood to the wall. I don't want to drill any more holes in the wall.

4. Fill the tank with water to do a leak test.

5. Scape mock up. I have a 30G tank filled with manzanita wood.

6. Setup the filter and CO2 rig.

7. Work through the lighting schedule. 

8. Plant the wall.

9. Ask some dear friends to send me plants for the tank  I have been asking them to hoard the plants since a LONG time. Some of them have actually been hoarding some plants for me. 

10. Be ready of unexpected issues that WILL come up during the whole process.

Most probably, my tank will be planted before the May ends 

I will be back soon with more updates.


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## MatteoS (Nov 4, 2014)

Really cool!! Could you share more info about the Arduino part (hardware? Code?)


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

MatteoS said:


> Really cool!! Could you share more info about the Arduino part (hardware? Code?)


Thanks! I am delighted that you decided to write your first post on my thread 

Here are the things that I bought: 

Arduino nano (Any arduino will work but since this is the smallest, I went with this). It comes with a USB mini2 cable that will be used to power it and program it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OK0NFPI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Solid State Relay Board. For people who don't know what relay is, it is just like a switch. Instead of you turning it on and off, Arduino will turn it on and off:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0079WI2ZC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

A project box that I already had. Any other box that you can fit these things into will work.
Hammond 1591TSBK ABS Project Box Black: Electrical Boxes: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

A power cord. This will go to the wall outlet. Most people have some or the other unused equipment that you can take this from. You really don't have to buy this. But if not, here it is:
http://www.amazon.com/Prong-Power-Cord-Pigtail-Open/dp/B00LDYHNN4/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1432737434&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=open+end+cord+power+three+prong

A power adapter. You will plug the equipment that you want to run on this timer to this adapter:
10 Pcs US 3 Pins Power Socket Plug Black AC 125V 15A - Light Sockets - Amazon.com

Solder stuff, some extra wire are prerequisites. 
I will post the code sometime this evening.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Nice work Sumer! This is really cool how you have integrated the electronic parts.

I like that reservoir.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


> Nice work Sumer! This is really cool how you have integrated the electronic parts.
> 
> I like that reservoir.


Thanks, D.

I am going to plant this thing this coming weekend  A few people here helped me with the plants and mosses etc. 
Will update you guys then


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Update time:

I started things from making some ADA amazonia balls by filling it in pantyhose.









I was skeptical about some plants not getting enough nutrients; like my Bucephalandra. 









Then I started putting sphagnum moss on the wall.









Your truly putting up the plants on the wall, sleepyheaded-ly 









And there you have it:



























Followed by a leak test on the tank which was a success









And then the tank was getting ready to be scaped:









A lot of Manzanita wood to select the hardscape from:









And here's the scape. Very easy going, not very complicated.. I seem to like it.


















And the loved ones could not resist taking a few moments to appreciate the work  I'd do this all over again just to see this joy on her face.









After planting some Bucephalandra and some nice Pilo moss that a friend sent:









That was all I had for you today 
I will keep taking photos to show the updates on the wall. I won't post aquarium updates here because this thread was mainly for the wall.
I'll share a link to the planted tank journal in the near future.

It has been a great journey so far. Yesterday, when I looked at the first post, I giggled. The progress has been very transformational  Thanks to all of you who helped me get here. This is an what forums do- help you carve your vague idea to a live wall


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Videos will come out in a few days 
Here are a few photos:

Lepanthes clareae. I hope this orchid will bloom soon.


















Syngonium Rayii









Vanilla planifolia









Cryptanthus sp.



























Bucephalandra sp. 'Cascade King'









Buce. sp. 'Mini Catherine' on the right hand side of Buce. sp. Cascade King









A beautiful fern. I don't know it's name.










Here's the bigger picture:


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## Lake (Jan 31, 2015)

Very inspirational build


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

Has this build been successful?


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

ChrisAZ said:


> Has this build been successful?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The live wall or the planted tank? 
Live wall has been very successful. It is going very strong.

Planted tank was also a success but I found some rare fish and they replaced the planted tank.


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

I'd love to see some current photos of the living wall and hear more about your experience with it so far.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Update time!

The wall has been doing really good.
I think it was about finding the correct plants that would do good in Colorado's dry weather.
Many plants that I started with withered away. I think I have added plants three times now. Plants that have survived are doing great. 

I am making a vivarium in the tank now. I think the vivarium would better compliment the wall. 

Here are some phone photos to keep this thread going 




























I will post some more photos as the vivarium would progress.


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