# 56g build for a client.



## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Hello, 

I recently got a job to build a display tank for a client. After sitting with him and choosing what would live in it , we came up with a tank for a group of Varadero and 2-3 Super blue Auratus. (yes, it's a mixed tank, boo hoo! But when these Varatus/Auraderos start selling like hot cakes, you'll be sad)

The platform for this build is a 56g column all glass fish tank/stand combo. One major concern for him was having it fruitfly-proof. Totally don't blame him, haha. Since thats something i couldn't guarantee with a front opening/sliding door i decided to go with a fishtank and just deal with the one opening at the top. I have to say, i absolutely LOVE this tank and it's dimensions. (It's 30" Wide x24" Tall x18" Deep.)

This tank gets a bit complicated and since this is pretty much complete, i'll just breeze through it . But if you have questions, feel free to ask. And yes, that is a cat-fish in the tank at the moment.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Background will be a mosaic of cork flats in the center with cork tubes at either end forming what would become 2 tree trunks. I then made branches out of smaller/ thinner cork tubes. 

The base is a false bottom with a stream/ pond feature spanning the entire front of the tank and towards the back on the right side. I like the effect of water droplets dripping into a pond (the hope is with misting thats exactly what would happen from the overhanging bromeliads. ).
The idea here was to form to clusters of bromeliads with a bit of spacing in the middle . Hoping to have 2 male Varadero each claim a territory. One to the left and one to the right, with the females picking which guy to hook up with.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

This tank will have adequate drainage via a gravity fed bulkhead towards the back right (out of sight). This tank will be misted HEAVYYYYYYY!! and the drain will make sure the water level never reaches the substrate and the constand water change will keep the water feature fresh. 

* Lighting: a 22" LED bar via Idris (TincMan) and the 30" T5 fluorescent fixture with a 6700k grow bulb, might switch it out for a tropical 5.0 UVB. 
Videos are on my Instagram feed (JonRich1320)

*Misting is a MistKing starter kit with the new digital display timer (not gonna lie, i'm pretty excited about it . Such a finished look).. 6 misting nozzles.
Videos are on my Instagram feed (JonRich1320)

The background and the pond bank were seeded with a combo of Christmas Moss, Floius moss mix and some random live mosses from other established tanks. blend blend blend and apply. I flipped the tank on it's side to make sure i could apply evenly and it not fall off. 
Videos are on my Instagram feed (JonRich1320)


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Plants!!!!

The client is a photographer and his wife is really into flowers. He stated that he was never able to keep orchids alive... So orchids i'm giving him . 

The tank will also have as many neoregelia bomeliads i can fit. A few African Violets, mosses, and clinging/shingling plants. If you have seen my previous builds , you'll know that i love moss and marcgravia.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

And Tadahhhhhhh!

Partially planted, still waiting on some orchids before i place the remaining bromeliads. Make sure everything is visible . I also placed all the broms in a way that they will be unobstructed for photos and viewing behavior.

The tank has been misted, fogged and lit for the past 2 weeks and already there had been moss growth and the violets are blooming. 

The stream/pond section will be completed upon delivery to save on transport weight, coz this shit heavyyyyyy!!!!

Oh and there is a repti-fogger plumed into the tree for special effects and humidity. 
Videos are on my Instagram feed (JonRich1320)


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

Seems like you've done everything very well except not explain to your client why mixed tanks are a no-no.

That size tank would be suitable for a group of varadero OR auratus. Skip one


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Love the Marineland 56 Columns. I have two of them myself! The build looks great, love the plant selection! Yeah mixing frogs is frowned upon but hey gives you're client a reason to build another viv lol

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Forgot to ask what are you doing for air circulation? I have two vents drilled into my glass top and a circulation fan to keep the moss and plants happy as well as keep the front glass clear. My moss doesn't look as pretty since the circulation fan died.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## chefboyardee (May 31, 2013)

looks great, is the water supposed to be standing or are you going to have a circ. pump?


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

chefboyardee said:


> looks great, is the water supposed to be standing or are you going to have a circ. pump?


The water will be standing . But I anticipate a 10% swap out by way of misting/draining weekly . I have the tank on a misting schedule of 5 times per day for 30 seconds each


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

diggenem said:


> Love the Marineland 56 Columns. I have two of them myself! The build looks great, love the plant selection! Yeah mixing frogs is frowned upon but hey gives you're client a reason to build another viv lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


Really like this tank for a medium display tank . I really like the 150g as well . Same as this , just wilder . Just sucks transporting a tank that size . I'd have to build on site . With the plants , I didn't want it to be "weedy" , so I picked the majority of the plants because they weren't going to grow too large .


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

erikm said:


> Seems like you've done everything very well except not explain to your client why mixed tanks are a no-no.
> 
> That size tank would be suitable for a group of varadero OR auratus. Skip one


Actually I completely explained the pros (yes, there are pros to keeping a mixed tank iffff you do your research and understand frog behavior ) and cons . (Tons on cons ... But that's another 50 page thread) . 

He completely understands. I personally have a tank with Varadero and Auratus and they have been together for months . The auratus stay on the ground (rarely do I ever see them above the leaf litter, unless I'm low on flies and they have to climb In search of food). The Varadero on the other hand are alllllll over the tank and at the moment have 10+ tads in broms. Not a single sign of stress or any other ill effect . 

My question to you is , have you ever had a mixed tank ( where there is no risk of interbreeding ) yourself and observed behavior and interactions ? Or are you just passing on what you've heard ? 

I'm curious


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

diggenem said:


> Forgot to ask what are you doing for air circulation? I have two vents drilled into my glass top and a circulation fan to keep the moss and plants happy as well as keep the front glass clear. My moss doesn't look as pretty since the circulation fan died.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


This tank is pretty much sealed . The fan set up on this tank is a bit complicated . I drilled the lid with two 2" holes in the front left and right corners . This is mainly to clear the glass of condensation , but it circulates the air very well . The fans are both enclosed by two acrylic cases . This allows for circulation , but it only circulates the tanks air and not pull dry air from outside . There will be 100% gas exchange when the tank is opened weekly for lite maintenance. 

Check my other tank build (the 10g and 18x18x24 Exo) for a better explanation, pix and videos of the system and testing . 

This is something that I've working on for over a year now and it seems to work really well , both for plants and frogs .


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Dang apparently you need an instagram account to view your videos. Looks good so far. I'm very interested in pictures of the fogger set up as well as your ventilation and light.

Can't wait to see what it looks like done please snap some photos when you set it up at the client's.

As for mixed tanks, I will never condone it, but it happens. After my horribly built vivarium failed I had to put my auratus froglets(4) and blackwater vent froglets(3) together in a 24x18x24 heavily planted tank. Never saw any of the frogs interact as adults but while they were together as juveniles I didn't witness any agression or competition. They mostly stayed apart. 

*The reason I wouldn't ever mix frogs again:*
One time an auratus "freaked out" when I approached and quickly jumped into a film canister that a blackwater vent was already in and the poor little guy got shoved/launched out. I couldn't imagine what a full grown Dendrobates could do if it got mad at a thumbnail frog. I also would be scared what an adult auratus would do if it came across a newly morphed thumbnail froglet, especially if it were hungry...

To each their own, though. I'm interested in how your mixed tanks work out both your client's and your own. Either positive or negative it would be nice to see how the frogs do together.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

FrogTim said:


> Dang apparently you need an instagram account to view your videos. Looks good so far. I'm very interested in pictures of the fogger set up as well as your ventilation and light.
> 
> Can't wait to see what it looks like done please snap some photos when you set it up at the client's.
> 
> ...


All good points . And that's exactly how my auratus ended up in the Varadero (or the other way around , since the Auratus were in there first ). I've started the process of weaning off all my smaller tanks and the wife kept complaing about the flies escaping . The only tank that didn't have escapes was my 40g horrizonthal breeder. There were only same sexed frogs of the same specie in the tank . The Varadero was acquired for a tank I'm building for me home , they were put in the 40g temporarily while I got another temp tank ready . Well after a week there were eggs an 2 weeks later they were transporting all over . I didn't want to pull them and leave any tads stranded . So I just left them . I enjoy and observe this tank. They interact without a care for each other . I'll be making a video about them soon . The Auratus actually chase flies upwards and the Varadero pick them off .


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

JonRich said:


> Actually I completely explained the pros (yes, there are pros to keeping a mixed tank iffff you do your research and understand frog behavior ) and cons . (Tons on cons ... But that's another 50 page thread) .
> 
> He completely understands. I personally have a tank with Varadero and Auratus and they have been together for months . The auratus stay on the ground (rarely do I ever see them above the leaf litter, unless I'm low on flies and they have to climb In search of food). The Varadero on the other hand are alllllll over the tank and at the moment have 10+ tads in broms. Not a single sign of stress or any other ill effect .
> 
> ...


No I have not. There are zero pros for your frogs when mixing in such a confined space. The pros are for you and you alone.

You are basing your observations over *months.*


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## alogan (Jan 7, 2013)

Although I don't have a mixed tank, I do see how auratus would be a good frog to mix with a thumbnail. They aren't highly aggressive and hybridizing can't occur. I think a lot of us forget that these animals have plenty of other stressors in the wild. I think mixing is taboo for a number of reasons, but people are so black and white on it that all ideas get passed on and on without people actually seeing or experimenting with it on their own. I don't think a beginner should have a mixed tank at all, but i don't think an experienced frogger should be shamed for having a mixed tank. I respect varying opinions on this board, but I am sure that experienced people observing frogs are able to see if aggression is happening or not.


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## BrainBug (Aug 25, 2010)

JonRich said:


> Actually I completely explained the pros (yes, there are pros to keeping a mixed tank iffff you do your research and understand frog behavior ) and cons . (Tons on cons ... But that's another 50 page thread) .
> 
> He completely understands. I personally have a tank with Varadero and Auratus and they have been together for months . The auratus stay on the ground (rarely do I ever see them above the leaf litter, unless I'm low on flies and they have to climb In search of food). The Varadero on the other hand are alllllll over the tank and at the moment have 10+ tads in broms. Not a single sign of stress or any other ill effect .
> 
> ...


Hi Jon,

Can you please explain to me the same way you explained to your client the pros of mixing frogs and how you determined the pros outweighed the "tons of cons"?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational and I'm sincere in my question. I ventured into this hobby with the hope to have a beautiful enclosure with a diverse population of frogs. After doing some research in the books available to me at the time, reading threads on this forum as well as reading about peoples first hand experiences mixing frogs I came to the opinion I have had since; that mixing animals in anything less then a several hundred gallon enclosure should be reserved to public institutions (like zoos or conservatories) with limited space and only because it serves to raise interest, awareness and education to the general public.

On a side note I agree with the previous statement that just months of personal experience is not enough to override the general consensus based on many years, if not a couple decades of many peoples personal experiences and would certainly not be enough for me to steer a client without a good amount of experience into purchasing a vivarium from me that the majority of the hobby would consider taboo which is why I am very interested in how you came to the opposite conclusion. Change my mind, I can be swayed.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

BrainBug said:


> Hi Jon,
> 
> Can you please explain to me the same way you explained to your client the pros of mixing frogs and how you determined the pros outweighed the "tons of cons"?
> 
> ...


It has been done and the veterans have let it slide but only because the vivarium was pretty big and the person was a PDF pro aka senior member who was will known and respected. I think it was stemcellular.
Though in this case it's not enough room and the OP isn't a senior member.
I know you was addressing the OP but I just wanted to mention that.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII using tapatalk


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

erikm said:


> No I have not. There are zero pros for your frogs when mixing in such a confined space. The pros are for you and you alone.
> 
> You are basing your observations over *months.*


Rite.. Zero!! Mr.Ive Never Had A Mixed Tank. Way to be biased. Haha, i'll keep you posted as it progresses.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

alogan said:


> Although I don't have a mixed tank, I do see how auratus would be a good frog to mix with a thumbnail. They aren't highly aggressive and hybridizing can't occur. I think a lot of us forget that these animals have plenty of other stressors in the wild. I think mixing is taboo for a number of reasons, but people are so black and white on it that all ideas get passed on and on without people actually seeing or experimenting with it on their own. I don't think a beginner should have a mixed tank at all, but i don't think an experienced frogger should be shamed for having a mixed tank. I respect varying opinions on this board, but I am sure that experienced people observing frogs are able to see if aggression is happening or not.


By farrrrrr the most rational post on this thread!!

I'm for sure NOT saying for people to start mixing their frogs, especially without knowing and understanding each frog's needs. I'm just saying this works for me in this situation.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

BrainBug said:


> Hi Jon,
> 
> Can you please explain to me the same way you explained to your client the pros of mixing frogs and how you determined the pros outweighed the "tons of cons"?
> 
> ...


I appreciate the way you handled this. . 

I'm honestly not here to sway anyone. I mention this case. Because of the fear of the MixedTank Mafia i've refrained from posting. A lot of the opposing posts are directed with aggression and i'm not here to fight. I'll update my 40g breeder tank (which has the Auratus 0.2.0 and Varadero 1.1.1) and document all behavior and interactions. I'm not going to pull stuff out of the air or repeat another person's without having experienced it first hand. 

But to answer you question. I'm not new here, nor am i an OG Triple OG of the frog world. I totally understand the "risk management" that is instilled by the veteran keepers. The risks are there and to avoid any mistakes, lets outlaw mixing as a whole. 

My client was part of my workshop at the job . In this workshop , i explained the risk or hybridization and parasite/disease cross contamination (this is more of a concern for me than anything . But you run the risk of this with ANY frog you add communally, same species or not. ). I also covered over crowding and aggression. Some frogs are just never meant to be in close contact with each other for extended periods of time. Other frogs are less aggressive under the right situations . I've experienced that with adequate feeding and housing it's possible for small groups to coexist and in some cases thrive. You can have a well planted 40g serve as a better enclosure than a poorly planted 150g.

Anyway, he understands the possible risk and choose to proceed with the calculated risk of keeping a mixed tank. I'll keep you guys posted on how this all progresses (good or bad).


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> It has been done and the veterans have let it slide but only because the vivarium was pretty big and the person was a PDF pro aka senior member who was will known and respected. I think it was stemcellular.
> Though in this case it's not enough room and the OP isn't a senior member.
> I know you was addressing the OP but I just wanted to mention that.
> 
> ...



Haha. Just haha!


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

What's an R. veradero?


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Cool tank, looking forward to more updates.


Say no to mindless parroting, its everywhere...


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

erikm said:


> What's an R. veradero?


A rare locale of Varadero. I wouldn't mix the two tho.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

cam1941 said:


> Cool tank, looking forward to more updates.
> 
> 
> Say no to mindless parroting, its everywhere...


Thanks. I want to get the moss and plants on the background established before i add more broms that would otherwise shade them out . Should look nice once things start to grow in. 

As for the mindless parroting , it sure is everywhere. I never let it bet to me .


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Some Selaginella, jewel orchid and some of the future inhabitants . 

A close 2nd to the R.Varaderos were R.Variabilis southern.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Well the tank has been delivered to the client and it will grow in for a few weeks and get the misting/fogging times adjusted. In about 6-8 weeks frogs will be added. The Auratus will be froglets ( i anticipate some climbing), the Varadero will be sub-adults. 

I'll update as i have time . I moved some bromeliads around. I'll be adding some more plants as things grows in.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

That looks interesting with the water added. Do expect to run into problems with the hygrolon wicking up water from the pond and saturating the substrate?


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

FrogTim said:


> That looks interesting with the water added. Do expect to run into problems with the hygrolon wicking up water from the pond and saturating the substrate?


I'm hoping for it to wick water from the pond. It will be overgrown with mosses and smaller training plants. There is a layer of greatstuff between the hygrolon and the substrate area. Shouldn't be too much water passing through and if it does it will drain through the false bottom. The water area still isn't complete. I'll be adding about a 1/2 " layer of a mix of black and red flourite planted substrate. For now it's just a few leaves soaking to give the water a bit of tannins. I'm also letting it all fill up from mistings.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Jon, do you know if the fluorite is volcanic? I thought that the Ecocomplete I use in my planted tank is volcanic and it has really sharp edges on it. It scratches the glass on the tank immediately if I get it caught between the algae pad and the glass. I would never use that stuff with frogs because of how thin their skin is. I don't know that fluorite and Ecocomplete are from the same source, but since they are both designed as planted tank substrates, I thought I would say something.

The tank looks great, BTW!

Mark


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Looks good! It's nice how someone does their own experimenting with mixing frogs and seeing for themselves how it goes. Keep us posted!


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Encyclia said:


> Jon, do you know if the fluorite is volcanic? I thought that the Ecocomplete I use in my planted tank is volcanic and it has really sharp edges on it. It scratches the glass on the tank immediately if I get it caught between the algae pad and the glass. I would never use that stuff with frogs because of how thin their skin is. I don't know that fluorite and Ecocomplete are from the same source, but since they are both designed as planted tank substrates, I thought I would say something.
> 
> The tank looks great, BTW!
> 
> Mark


Very valid point. I hadn't planned on having the substrate come in contact with the frogs. The bottom black plastic frame of the tank is 1.5" and the water level will be 4". I'm planning to only fill the substrate to the black plastic frame and have 2.5" of water. In my experience (i have 2 other tanks with pond features), if a frog hops/falls into the water it never swims down . They usually just swim at the surface in a mad dash to get to the bank and out . I'll monitor it. If there is an issue, a simple fix would be a light cover of smooth river gravel. I wouldn't get the look i was going for, but the frogs would be safe.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

GandalfTheGrey said:


> Looks good! It's nice how someone does their own experimenting with mixing frogs and seeing for themselves how it goes. Keep us posted!


Thanks. I'm not saying every frog should be mixed. Some frogs just don't have the temperament to be mixed. But there are a few that would do just fine.


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Where will the frogs hide? Are you planning on covering the hygrolon with some leaf litter?🍃🍂🍁


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

The tank isn't frog ready yet. 3/4th of the footprint is land area with 2-2.5" of Live Oak and Magnolia leaf litter. All of the magnolia leaves in the water will be placed on the land area (I personally like to soak my leaf litter before adding it to a tank. Dry leaves tend to pull moisture out of the air and lower the humidity ) . There will be 2 coconuts (they are currently laced with moss and in a grow-out before adding to the tank) I'll lay a few smaller pieces (5-6" long with a 2-3" inside diameter) corktubes on its side for hiding opportunities . There will eventually be 7-8 neoregelia bromeliads and whatever they pup. My Varadero never sleep or hide on the ground. I'll adjust as needed .


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

It's going to look sick


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

JonRich said:


> Very valid point. I hadn't planned on having the substrate come in contact with the frogs. The bottom black plastic frame of the tank is 1.5" and the water level will be 4". I'm planning to only fill the substrate to the black plastic frame and have 2.5" of water. In my experience (i have 2 other tanks with pond features), if a frog hops/falls into the water it never swims down . They usually just swim at the surface in a mad dash to get to the bank and out . I'll monitor it. If there is an issue, a simple fix would be a light cover of smooth river gravel. I wouldn't get the look i was going for, but the frogs would be safe.


Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were going to cover the "shore" in the fluorite. If it's just underwater, you are all good. It will also provide good substrate for root feeding plants if you decide to go that way. Cryptocorynes or annubias or java ferns might be interesting to grow partially emersed, too.

Mark


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Encyclia said:


> Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were going to cover the "shore" in the fluorite. If it's just underwater, you are all good. It will also provide good substrate for root feeding plants if you decide to go that way. Cryptocorynes or annubias or java ferns might be interesting to grow partially emersed, too.
> 
> Mark


You Sir see the vision. haha. 

The hygrolon will be covered in moss and trailing plants (discidia, marcgravia,peperomia emarginella,etc). Sucks that the hygrolon shows now, but eventually it will all Be covered . Once the substrate is in, i'll add a few pieces of driftwood that i can mount some annubias nana/petite, maybe some glosso or ricca. I'll see what will grow in the high pH water. Suggestions are welcomed.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

The tank has been set up and growing out for a few weeks now. I had the client sacrifice visibility for a bit. but thats all over with . Now the fans are doing their job and the glass is clear.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Frogs are heaaa!!

I originally wanted to put a group of Varadero in this tank for the client, but due to availability i went a group of 6 Arena Blanca. They are currently in QT and fattening up in a grow-out. I anticipate them having some trouble finding food in the tank at first, so i wanted to make sure they were in the best shape. I'll be setting up 2 feeding stations and putting about 500 flies in the tank a week prior. The hope is that there will be maggots in the stations at the time the frogs are released. Auratus to follow.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

They look great! Good luck


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

GandalfTheGrey said:


> They look great! Good luck


Thanks . 

And here is a walkthrough video of the tank with the substrate in the water area. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAB6V0VIB4U

The African Violets are doing amazing. Really happy with their growth and 2 of the 3 in the tank are in bloom. 

~Jon


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Some pix of the tank with aquatic substrate completed. Everything is growing in nicely and these pix do it no justice.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Some pix of the frogs out and about. This tank currently houses 6 Arena Blanca and there will be 3 "Super Blue" Auratus added later.


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Nice! The Arena Blanca seem like they'll be a great color combo with the auratus


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

GandalfTheGrey said:


> Nice! The Arena Blanca seem like they'll be a great color combo with the auratus


Yes. I was really looking for a group of Varadero. But when i realized i would not be able to acquire a group, these were the obvious runner-ups. I'm veryyyy happy with the way they have been settling in. All but one (the smallest one) has been out any about.


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