# My leucs are fighting!



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok, I have this awesome breeding trio of Leucs. Moved them into a new tank last week and the males are not getting along at all. One of them has clearly decided that the tank and the female and all the flies are his. Interestingly, it was the other fella who was in charge in the previous tank. Now the underdog has come out swinging. 

When the other guy was the top frog, he was a benevolent leader and there was harmony in Leucville. The mean frog is a nasty tyrant. How long should I let this go on before I consider removing Mean Frog? 

http://youtu.be/lCa2GY9HMOU


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## SDRiding (Jul 31, 2012)

Well, first you should probably remove the conch from the viv. That never leads to good things!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

SDRiding said:


> Well, first you should probably remove the conch from the viv. That never leads to good things!


What conch!? I'm going crazy trying to see one in there, lol.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Now you've got me looking at it in HD on the big screen to see if my nose is in the reflection, lmao.

Anyway, here is what happened when Mean Frog caught Other Frog trying to eat flies. 
D Leucomelas - YouTube


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## SDRiding (Jul 31, 2012)

Sorry, I couldn't help but think of Lord of the Flies! I wish I could actually help, I'm going to be moving my trio of Azureus into their permanent home in about 2 months and I've been concerned about the same problem. 

My plan if I see fighting is to simply monitor their health and not separate immediately, I think they will sort out the pecking order eventually. I will have lots of visual barriers and about a 3:1 ratio of hiding places though. But you probably know better than me 

Edit: Just watched your last video, maybe trying blowing the flies into the viv so they're not congregated in one area?



frogface said:


> What conch!? I'm going crazy trying to see one in there, lol.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

SDRiding said:


> Sorry, I couldn't help but think of Lord of the Flies! I wish I could actually help, I'm going to be moving my trio of Azureus into their permanent home in about 2 months and I've been concerned about the same problem.
> 
> My plan if I see fighting is to simply monitor their health and not separate immediately, I think they will sort out the pecking order eventually. I will have lots of visual barriers and about a 3:1 ratio of hiding places though. But you probably know better than me


Lord of The Flies! Of course! Sorry 

Here are some tank shots:

FTS








FTS inside








Pond








Pond looking down








Frog fight








The pond is only ankle deep and they hang out in there. Both pieces of wood are concave and provide nice hiding and hanging out space. They went from a 30g tank to a 20g high. So, they don't have as much area. In the larger tank, the two males were together most of the time and were never seen fighting. I'll keep an eye on it, add more plants, and see how it goes. I don't really want the mean frog to be in charge. So far, all he does is make a lot of noise and get the female excited. He hasn't been able to follow through in the almost 3 years I've had them. When she gets over to him, he acts all 'who me? that wasn't me!'. The other frog knows how to treat a lady


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

It looks as though the passive male has become the third wheel in the trio. I've heard of Leucomelas males exhibiting this exact type of aggression during breeding time. If these were my guys, I would remove the passive male. the reduced space has caused overlapping territories which has lead to the aggression. If there's a way to offer more hiding areas to reduce line of sight, that would help a bit. I don't know that it's going to fix the problem. If you still have the 30 gallon, try putting all three of them back and see if the aggression continues. No matter what you choose, I hope it works out. Keep us posted, Kris, please.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

Kris, all I see is one very helpful frog! Clearly he is giving the other guy a piggy back ride around because he hurt his little froggy ankle. What a great friend!


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

I was walking when I read the Conch comment and almost fell over lol.. Thanks for the Monday laugh, I needed it!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If they don't settle down soon, I'm going to take Mean Frog out and put him in his own 10g so that Other Frog can regain control of his domain. He's a much better boss frog than the psychopath that's in charge now.

The 30g they were in is beat up. It was a fish tank before it was a frog tank and the glass is so etched I could barely see inside the tank. I'm going to tear it apart and use the good parts of the glass for lids.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Use that tank to grow plant clippings. I have a 20 gallon that's just for that. Don't forget t water it. ....don't ask.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It isn't surprising that this is occurring.. It has less to do with a reduction in space than to the elimination of all territorial cues... As with many other territorial species... the resident in control of a territory has some advantages in keeping control hence the change in dynamics when given new turf... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Kris,
I've a hunch this will settle down with time. Our leucs are always scrapping,both boys and girls. Real hard core wrestling standing on each other exactly like your video.We have never seen any weight loss and over the last couple of years have noted different frogs becoming top dog.We used to worry ourselves sick about this,but now,it is just normal and somewhat funny. Watching 5 leucs scrapping whilst trying to get in the same film can to breed can only be viewed with merryment. that said maybe your mean frog is just meaner than our boys,or girls for that matter. So what ever happens we wish you luck.

Oh Kris,I had one of those cross Atlantic translation issues on this thread,I've been trying to spot a large shell in your videos and wondering what you'ld put one of those in a viv for,yeah i've caught up now
I'll see myself out

Stu


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I am happy to report that the wimpy frog has found his voice. The mean frog still pounced a little but then hopped right back off. Now I have battle of the frog band in my leuc tank without the savage violence. This morning, all three of them sat on top of the wood dancing while the males sang together. It was lovely


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm so glad it's working out. I guess they needed to establish they're territories and pecking order.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

There is true harmony in Leuctown tonight. All three spent the day under the log. Then all three went down to the pond for a little soak. Now both males are back under the log, watering the eggs. How sweet 

Last week was hilarious. Apparently they had hidden a clutch from me and I discovered it only when I found one of the males transporting a tad. The other male kept chasing him down, jumping on his back, and, kicking at the tad! It was hysterical. Then he'd block the path to the pond and when the transporting Leuc got near, he jump on him and kick. Has anyone seen this sort of behavior before? I tried to get a video, but, of course, they didn't do it when I had the camera. Stupid frogs.

And because we all love pics, dad and tad


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

So one male was actually trying to stop the other one's offspring from surviving???


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

jacobi said:


> So one male was actually trying to stop the other one's offspring from surviving???


I don't really know. That's what it looked like to me.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

well I am glad they are getting along again! I was going to basically say the same thing Ed did.. New enviroment and they needed to re-establish territories. And eggs you say? SO there is something for myself to be excited over?  hahaha


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm dealing with the same issue. A month ago, recieved a WC "pair". No activity whatsoever. So I added a 3rd wheel, a known proven female. Immediate calling and clutches began popping up, along with egg eating. I suspected a 1.2, until the known male kept attacking the WC female repeatedly. I've never seen a male attacking a female, so now I'm pretty sure its a 2.1 and it was the males fight and my WC "pair" was 2 Males.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

pdfCrazy said:


> I'm dealing with the same issue. A month ago, recieved a WC "pair". No activity whatsoever. So I added a 3rd wheel, a known proven female. Immediate calling and clutches began popping up, along with egg eating. I suspected a 1.2, until the known male kept attacking the WC female repeatedly. I've never seen a male attacking a female, so now I'm pretty sure its a 2.1 and it was the males fight and my WC "pair" was 2 Males.


As weird as it sounds with egg eating, at the start of the season this year.. i caught one of our male azureus inside a hut eating eggs.. I mean caught red handed.. Still had jelly hanging from his mouth.. And yes this is a male, ive seen him call, i watch the 2 fight from time to time and ive seen the female try to court him.. He just never shows any interest back like he knows the dominant male has all the rights to her. lol


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

pdfCrazy said:


> I'm dealing with the same issue. A month ago, recieved a WC "pair". No activity whatsoever. So I added a 3rd wheel, a known proven female. Immediate calling and clutches began popping up, along with egg eating. I suspected a 1.2, until the known male kept attacking the WC female repeatedly. I've never seen a male attacking a female, so now I'm pretty sure its a 2.1 and it was the males fight and my WC "pair" was 2 Males.


I have a Leuc that I think is female and she with attack anything that moves, once the calling starts. It seems really odd to me that a female would attack a male, but this frog is very aggressive!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Nismo95 said:


> well I am glad they are getting along again! I was going to basically say the same thing Ed did.. New enviroment and they needed to re-establish territories. *And eggs you say? SO there is something for myself to be excited over?  hahaha*


LOL, well only 2 tads made the trip to the pond. I have no idea how large the clutch was or what development was like, but, there are only 2 little ones swimming in the water. Maybe that's all there was or maybe something more sinister?


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

frogface said:


> LOL, well only 2 tads made the trip to the pond. I have no idea how large the clutch was or what development was like, but, there are only 2 little ones swimming in the water. Maybe that's all there was or maybe something more sinister?


Sinister? way of staying positive Kris. Hahaha!


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

frogface said:


> LOL, well only 2 tads made the trip to the pond. I have no idea how large the clutch was or what development was like, but, there are only 2 little ones swimming in the water. Maybe that's all there was or maybe something more sinister?


Thats why I pull all the eggs as soon as they are laid, at least in the Trio tank. In my pairs tank, I still pull eggs, but I may check only once a week or ten days. I cant wait to see the sight of a ten gallon grow out with 15 baby leaucs hoppign around. Morphed out my first 2 babies a couple days ago. Cute fat little guys.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

frogface said:


> When the other guy was the top frog, he was a benevolent leader and there was harmony in Leucville. The mean frog is a nasty tyrant. How long should I let this go on before I consider removing Mean Frog?


I would form a ragtag team of rebel fighters and help them take down the empire.


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## dtown (Jan 5, 2011)

I have an interesting issue that is in this wheelhouse... I started off with 1 leuc in a 10 g., then went to a reptile show and talked to a DF breeder and said it would be ok to get a terriblis and another leuc in there. So we did. Everything has been fine for about 6 months and about a week ago my original leuc started getting really skinny... Now I can't find him DF's aren't known for canabalism are they?? I know it sounds crazy, but I have looked EVERYWHERE and can't find him... Any ideas???


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## dtown (Jan 5, 2011)

Sorry, just to add.... the other 2 get along wonderfully. They share the entire enclosure and share food when I feed them.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You should move that terribilis to his own tank. Too many frogs, too little tank. He's likely stressing the Leucs out.


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