# Orange Isopods - good?



## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

The orange guys get pretty big and active....my cultures seem to take off a lot faster than the whites.

Thoughts on using them.....

Are they good feeders when small? What type of frogs?

Are small white dwarf isos just better overall, to use?

Are they mainly considered for janitor duty?

Ever hear of a "bad" instance where they ate some eggs or god forbid, something else?


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey Phil,
they re good janitors, i have seen my Alanis pair go after them, but i have never actually fed them out. I woudl consider them to be just fine, never eat good eggs, i have seen them eat bad eggs, i guess cause they are attracted by the smell.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

I've been feeding them on and off for about a year now. My terribs will take the larger ones but otherwise I've only had mantellas take down some of the recently hatched ones.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

I "keep" a few different isopods and lately I really like the Striped Dwarf Woodlice (Philoscia muscorum) best. In my experience they are just a bit bigger than the Dwarf Whites (still small enough for tincs to take easily) and produce better.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

There's a couple of big boys in one of my Eldorado vivs that has froglets and I swear, the isos are so big a froglet could ride it like a horse.

Not sure how paranoid it's gonna make me.....stay tuned.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I've ever heard of them eating anything like frogs/eggs Phil. I have them in a few tanks with no problems so far. All the isopods mainly considered for janitors as far as I know. Im up to 5 or so species now, but I like bugs


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

So Phil, how are you liking the isopods? I have been thinking about adding some but am afraid of them over taking the tank. How are they doing for you? If you don't feed the tank does the population stay low? I just had to see some 3/4 inch orange woodlice on top of my frogs lol.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I ike the dwarf temperates best. Same size as whites, but produce better at lower temps
The oranges are awesome breeders, but I can only feed out the babies. Adults are too big


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

Philsuma said:


> There's a couple of big boys in one of my Eldorado vivs that has froglets and I swear, the isos are so big a froglet could ride it like a horse.
> 
> Not sure how paranoid it's gonna make me.....stay tuned.


if you can get a pic of that i will buy you a beer for sure lol , keep us posted im curious about the oranges too
craig


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

The Spanish Orange are big......like little bulldozers.

No problems with them. They are a lot more prolific than the dwarf whites, and they are faster.

You could setup a race track with frogs riding them.....


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## Deli (Jun 24, 2008)

Slightly straying off, but how do the temperate kind to for feeders? I got a small colony off a guy who has a couple Auratus and Azureus and now I've a couple hundred of them


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Deli said:


> Slightly straying off, _but how do the temperate kind to for feeders_? I got a small colony off a guy who has a couple Auratus and Azureus and now I've a couple hundred of them


How do they do for feeders?

Both kinds can be cultured on damp soil with 3inch corrugated cardboard squares laying on top of the soil. The young will be all over the cardboard and they look a lot like springtails, except they don't jump.

Shake out the cardboard squares to feed out.

Both types are easy to culture.


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## Deli (Jun 24, 2008)

I know how to culture them. heh. Just wondering how Armadillidium sp. (the ones I have) fair as feeders, being larger than the tropical kind, for smaller frogs like E.Tricolors and P. Vittatus.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

So do you not let them grown on their own in the vivs?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Both kinds of Iso's work good as feeders.....only the tiny young, obviously. 

When you shake them out into the viv, undoubtably, some don't get eaten by the frogs, survive and grow larger and take on janitor duties and reproduce.

You could also seed your vivs ahead of putting frogs in, just like springtails.

Yeah...they are established populations of both kinds of Iso in almost all my vivs, both deliberately introduced in soil and also shaken into the vivs as feeders.


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## PumilioTurkey (Feb 25, 2010)

I would watch out with orange ones.

They can go crazy in your viv and eat a lot of interior


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

PumilioTurkey said:


> I would watch out with orange ones.
> 
> They can go crazy in your viv and eat a lot of interior


Can be more specific with this? What exactly were they eating and how much?


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Yeah, that comment made me not want to put them in my tank ha-ha. Clarification would help


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## PumilioTurkey (Feb 25, 2010)

they were munching on my farns and the moss on my walls 

I heard similar stories from other people.

you should keep an eye out and feed the young ones to your frogs.
my terribilis couldnt manage the adult ones and spat them out


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I think only the tiny young Isopods are suitable for dart frog prey. When they get bigger, and IF they survive the viv, they take on janitor duties..

As fas as being scared of them eating ferns and moss.....I would be FAR more worried about slugs, snails and milipedes. I have yet to see an Iso actively eating a plant or otherwise in any of my vivs and I check them almost every night in the dark with a headlamp (no jokes please).

Seriously.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

PumilioTurkey said:


> they were munching on my farns and the moss on my walls
> 
> I heard similar stories from other people.
> 
> ...


A few carrot peeling would probably solve the problem.

Works for Crickets. It brings them into the open and they don't last long.

Just a thought.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Orange Isopods - very good!

I have "Spanish Orange" isos (I'm guessing they're the same) established in a number of my vivs, and I've never had to seed twice any of them twice. They're very prolific, yet none of the vivs are overrun with them. Some of the young get eaten, and some make it to adulthood. Unless you're feeding out the adults to terribilis (which can take down the largest adults if they're used to larger prey), they should reproduce in your viv. I have them in w/ tincs, galacts, pums and imis. Some of the adult isos are larger than the adult frogs they're in with. It’s really kinda cool to watch the pums milling around in the leaf litter with them. 

SOs WILL devour certain plants. Without a heads up I don’t know how you’d know which ones unless you saw them going at it. My experience has been that they relish heart ferns, tongue ferns, maidenhair ferns, and ficus diversifolia. These they have eaten until there was nothing left. They have also "sampled" Macodes petola to death. They do not seem interested my other ferns or ficuses, or in the darker jewel orchids (i.e. Ludisia discolor, Anoectochillus sp.). Nor do they seem interested 99.9% of the other plants that I grow in my vivs. Overall I think it's worthwhile to use other plants or not replace the ones that they eat in order to keep them. They’re great additional food sources, and as stated throughout this thread, great janitors. 

I also culture them separately in sterilite boxes with coco peat, leaf litter, and vegetable scraps. This has to be kept moist. It has worked well for me, as I bought 15 bugs 3 or 4 years ago and have never had to buy more!


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

I have to admit, I like the orange just because they are orange ha-ha. Do the small isos do just as good with janitor duty? I guess I could get one that isn't orange if there is a smaller type that is easier on plants and that don't get so big...


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## b1fcs (Apr 16, 2009)

My isopods completely devoured my jewel orchids, but none of my other plants.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Please excuse my ignorance, but we have what we always called rolly pollys or pill bugs living all over the place in my area. They range in color from a slate gray to tan (smaller ones). Are these similar to what you are discussing? The larger ones have pretty tough shells and I could see them rolling up tight and taking a while to die in the frog's stomach.

Would these be safe to establish in the tank?

Here's a picture:


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

That's the critter. Perfectly safe provided he is parasite and pesticide free. My understanding is that North American species are extremely slow breeders and won't ever really take off.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Boondoggle said:


> That's the critter. Perfectly safe provided he is parasite and pesticide free. My understanding is that North American species are extremely slow breeders and won't ever really take off.


Are they worth adding for cleanup duty?


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Well, if anyone is interested in some rolly pollies, I'd be happy to swap for a brom or plant cutting. I doubt they'd have to ship overnight if I pack them with some damp leaf litter so shipping costs should be low. If you don't have anything to swap, I'd still be glad to help out a fellow frogger and send some for the cost of shipping.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Sorry for the multiple posts, but is this sowbug more like the isopods that are used for dart frogs?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

JimO said:


> Sorry for the multiple posts, but is this sowbug more like the isopods that are used for dart frogs?
> 
> View attachment 10374


Hi Jim,

That is the type of Isopod / Sowbug / Pill bug / Wood lice - yes. We generally use the fast producing Spanish Giant Orange and the slower moving and producing White Dwarf varieties. There are other less comonly used varieties as well.

Be careful where you obtain them. I suggest a culture swap with a fellow hobbyist for a long term existing culture over collecting your own in lovely Florida as there are risks of pathogens, Disease, The big C ect AND chances are you will be collecting a species that is very slow to produce and consequently not that helpful to the hobby.

The adults perform good janitor duty and are seldom eaten due to their large size. The Larvae - look just like sprintails are what the frogs go nuts for. Very helpful to use the babies as feeders alongside a good springtail population especially for tiny newly morphed p_umilio_.

I would not be able to maintain my _pumilio_ collection without Isopods, they are just that helpful as feeders.

Did you join the "all Florida social group" by any chance? I thought I sent you an invite. LMK if I did not.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Philsuma said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> That is the type of Isopod / Sowbug / Pill bug / Wood lice - yes. We generally use the fast producing Spanish Giant Orange and the slower moving and producing White Dwarf varieties. There are other less comonly used varieties as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the invite and yes I did join. I need to get some insect cultures other than fruit flies. I've always kept larger species (mostly azureus) and the froglets are able to take fruit flies as soon as they morph out. I'm soon to be getting into thumbnail species and will need to culture springtails and other critters. I do vary their diet with the occasional termites and really small "meal" worms sold at the local pet stores. The don't seem to care for crickets.

I appears from what I have learned on this site (wish I had found it years ago) that culturing springtails and isopods in both the vivs and in containers is the way to go, especially with species that care for their own tads. So, would you recommend the white isopods and temperate springtails as a start?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Yes....both Springs and Iso are what we are striving for as far as "microfauna" feeders. Then you have the logistics of correct clay based substrate and some topsoil (IMO) along with a 2 tiered /layer of leaf litter.

Try your hand at culturing them in small to medium sized plastic shoe box / sterilite containers - as many types of iso's as you can get and see where that takes you in terms of production, THEN you can seed vivs ect, once you have a type that produces nicely.

Remember, many factors such as temp, humidty come into play when looking for a culture to do well. I have heard that some feeders that do well up in the North East, for example, do not produce well at all, in say, Arizona or the Southwestern states.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I transfered 23 cultures of these to people at the recent MARS / IAD show.....

Please post your experiences with this species here when you get a chance and have something to report.

I really like this type of Iso...


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

My fear with the orange would be that if they get that big and breed that well, they'll out compete more suitable feeder iso's decreasing their population in the tank. You'll be fine for janitors but you wont have as much stuff crawling around the frogs will actually eat regularly.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Dendro Dave said:


> My fear with the orange would be that if they get that big and breed that well, they'll out compete more suitable feeder iso's decreasing their population in the tank. You'll be fine for janitors but you wont have as much stuff crawling around the frogs will actually eat regularly.


An obvious concern....

One really good observation. The orange ios's tend to be more visible and hang out on top of the substrate ect. This is also what makes the tiny ones so good as feeders. They don't disapear into the soil or curl up and not move much.

I have plucked out the occasional 2-3 full grown horse sized orange, almost always found at night just hanging out - resting apparently.

Only one time in years have I ever found an orange muching on a plant....


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Philsuma said:


> An obvious concern....
> 
> One really good observation. The orange ios's tend to be more visible and hang out on top of the substrate ect. This is also what makes the tiny ones so good as feeders. They don't disapear into the soil or curl up and not move much.
> 
> ...


Thats a good point, a more visible/mobile prey item might make up some of the difference. I always suspected my frogs were eating regular baby iso's (the N. American roli poli  ...Can't remember for sure though If I ever actually saw them do it. I think I purposely put one tiny one near a frog and it ate it...but I may be making that up


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I've never heard anyone with a microfauna "plan".....I think it's just throw stuff in and hope it "takes" and be pleasantly suprised with good results.

I never used the orange to seed....only to feed out the larvae that collect on the cardboard squares from the top of the cx. Undoubtably some escape predation and grow but I've never seen more than one or two bigger ones in the viv and since they are much more visible than white or others.....that's a good indication that they are not overloading or taking over the viv.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I have some Tan in my Lorenzo tank. Every now and then, an adult will pop out of the substrate and freak out my frogs. Then he ambles back down and everything goes back to normal. 

I think a larger frog would like the adults. They look tasty


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