# Potential N00b! Excited!! (long read)



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

I wanted to go ahead and introduce myself and get some advice.

Firstly a bit of an intro:
Hello I'm Sue. I am a full time Graphic Designer and live in a small college town in Northern Arizona. I'm entirely new to frogs especially darts! Although, I'm not new to amphibians I've had (and still have) Chinese Firebelly Newts (C. Orientalis) for the last 3 years(ish). I currently have 5 newts (2.1.2). and recently built them a custom enclosure with 3D background and the likes, it's planted in the Walstad method (it's still in it's early stages).

I'm getting pretty addicted to forums, they are such a wealth of information! long story short I joined a local planted tank forum and one of the members there who is also a member here is selling their Female Dwarf Tinc Bakhuis.

Now this is all pending on if I can convince my boyfriend to let me have a frog in addition to my salamanders. My bargaining chip... I'll get rid of the guppy tank. If left to my own devices I would have a million tanks with salamanders frogs and reptiles.... (really I feel our relationship is backwards lol ... aren't guys supposed to be into this stuff and girls be all squeemish?)


I (think I) know:
they are a ground dwelling species.
they need humidity between 80-100.
temps between 70-80?.
they eat fruit flies, small crickets and isopods
they are about 1.5-2 inches big.

I've done a bunch of reading already but I'm positive there is plenty more to do but I have some questions.

1) Will a Dwarf Tinc. Bakhuis do well by herself?
2) Will I have a problem introducing a mate later on if I choose to?
3) Will a standard Ten gallon (horiz) be a good size for her?
3.2) or would a petco premium half moon be better?(on sale for $25 that's why I ask)
3.3) is the frog starter kit at petco any good?
4) I'm planning on doing my own build (great stuff, that coco substrate rocks/ 'logs' etc)but got overwhelmed with some of the complex builds.. misters, Faux floors? etc. how much of that is necessary?

5) I know nothing about using live plants in a terrarium like this help!! (I want live plants I like the natural tank thing)

6) Is $65 a fair price for a single female around 1.5 years old?(it's always good to check)

7) leaf litter? what is that is that go out side pick up fallen leaves from local trees and use it in tank?
------------------------------------------
I have some supplies and would like to use what I have before buying.
What I have to work with(doubt it will all be useful but this is what I have): 

1 10 gallon
1 glass top with hinge
2 sheets of acrylic to enough to make 2 tops for tank as well
2 5 gallon water heaters
 1/4 tube of aquarium silicone
1 big bag of very fine sand
1/2 bag of river pebbles (1-2 inches)
1/2 bag larger aquarium gravel
several daisy chained T5 fixtures
2 large (for a 10 gallon) pieces of mopani wood
1 large (for a 10 gallon) piece or lace rock
half bucket of quickcrete
1/3 bottle concrete fortifier
almost new bottle of charcoal coloring for concrete
about 4sq ft of pink insulation foam
1/3 big bag of nice (no ferts well composted) potting soil (i used for my walstad tank)
2/3 block of coco(something) substrate
a few house plants (wandering jew, creeping charlie, spider plants that hanging vine plant everyone has whose name escapes me at the moment)
 2 feet of black pvc pipes and some 90 degree ends.


----------



## love_chariot (Sep 1, 2011)

You are asking good questions and the forum is a great place to find out most of the information. I still recommend getting some of the books on the hobby and reading through those in depth. I think your tank depends on what your end goals is. If you would like a pair of bakhuis I would go with a twenty gallon minimum. Preferably you should go with a front opening zoomed or exoterra or other brand of front opening tank (just makes things easier). Live plants are great, they help maintain humidity and really give the viv a natural look, you can get some from local places or order online, I really like NE Herp. Plan to set up your viv atleast 2-3 months before getting the frog, you want it to grow in and be safe. The false bottom vs hydroton only bottom is up to you, I have both, they have their pros and cons. I don't know what is all in the petco frog kit, but I would imagine you don't need it. There are many supply lists on the board, I would look them up and go through them thoroughly. As for the price on the frog, that is very nice for a gender identified adult tinc, but still make sure to get it checked out by a vet for parasites and infection. Finally leaf litter, leaves from outdoors generally have bugs and other contaminants. Here in phoenix I've been told to bag them in trash bags and leave it outside in the summer to kill it all. You can get them online or find ways to make your own. Hope this helps.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'll see what questions I can answer. Hmmm...

1) Bakhuis will be fine by herself

2) You can introduce a mate later. In fact, that's what a lot of folks do.

3) 10 gallon would be fine for one frog but you'll want to make bigger ones later. 

3.2) Not familiar with it

3.3) I don't know if the kits are good or not but you don't need one. 

4) You don't need misters. Many (like me) just use a hand held spray bottle. The false bottom is needed to drain water away from the substrate. The frogs like to be humid but not wet. And your plants feel the same way. 

5) The plants are not as tricky as you think. There are lots of viv friendly plants and most of the 'Exotic Angel' plants from home improvement stores are fine. 

6) 65 bucks sounds good for an adult Bahuis

7) Leaf litter can be collected from outside. Just need to make sure that they don't come from an area that is sprayed with pesticides or fertilizers or whatever other chemicals.

Welcome!


----------



## crank68516 (Aug 30, 2010)

Welcome,
Lets see if I can answer some of these.

1) Will a Dwarf Tinc. Bakhuis do well by herself?
Should be fine but you will want another after a few minutes.

2) Will I have a problem introducing a mate later on if I choose to?
Most people do this anyway, I'm waiting on my Azureus to be sexable then going to find a mate.

3) Will a standard Ten gallon (horiz) be a good size for her?
You'll be fine with a 10 but should go with a 20 even if you don't get another later.

3.2) or would a petco premium half moon be better?(on sale for $25 that's why I ask)
I wouldn't recommend it, cheap, flimsy, small, would need some work to fly-proof it.

3.3) is the frog starter kit at petco any good?
Not sure what is in it but I would just order from one of the sponsors on here, I think Josh's Frogs has habitat kits which would have almost everything you need to get started.

4) I'm planning on doing my own build (great stuff, that coco substrate rocks/ 'logs' etc)but got overwhelmed with some of the complex builds.. misters, Faux floors? etc. how much of that is necessary?
Check out the habitat starter kit at Josh's Frogs, and I would just mist via spray bottle.

5) I know nothing about using live plants in a terrarium like this help!! (I want live plants I like the natural tank thing)
You can get some good plants at home improvement stores or check out any of the sponsors, they will set you up with plants you need/want and make recommendations. Plants in a viv are nearly impossible to kill.

6) Is $65 a fair price for a single female around 1.5 years old?(it's always good to check)
Sounds reasonable, I've paid more for some of my frogs.

7) leaf litter? what is that is that go out side pick up fallen leaves from local trees and use it in tank?
It's just leaves, they keep the substrate off of the frogs so they stay happy.

Hope this helps some, I know I'm far from the most experienced on here but It's a few things I've learned keeping frogs. Just look at others posts to get some ideas and don't be afraid to ask questions if you are unsure.

Chris


----------



## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

I hope I can give you the right info on these frog's living quarters. I am a begginer to this hobby too, and what do I know? 

You could by most of the stuff that I have listed here, if not all, from Josh'sfrogs.com

for a hydroton bottom, this is what you should do:

put in 1-3 inches of hydroton on the bottom

put substate liner(you could buy this at most hardware stores, at the garden center) on top of the hydroton

ad 4-5 + inches of ABG mix or vivarium soil on top of the liner

then put plants in the soil

put a layer of spaghum moss on the soil

then put leaf litter.

now for decor. decor is mainly done the way the builder wants it to look, so you don't have to do it this way. 

aquire some driftwood, or if you already have some, put driftwood in wherever you want it, and at whatever style/angle you want it.

you really should get a coconut hide and put it in the tank, so the frog/frogs have some more hiding places.

you could buy some moss and attach it to the driftwood to give it a more natural look.

I don't know much about backgrounds, so you might have to look up another thread for that.

lighting

I heard that CFL's(6500k) work pretty well for plants and dart frogs.
LED's work fine too, from what I've heard, but you are problibly going to need to look up some threads about that too.

I hope I helped, even though you might already know most of this stuff, just trying to be helpfull. Good luck.


----------



## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

What a great beginner post!

1. Should be fine by herself

2. Introducing later on usually works better for breeding (not sure why, but it does).

3. 10gal is fine *BUT*: If, and when you put another frog in there, the size will (theoretically) be halved. A lot of people have pairs of tincs in 10gal (though they're not usually that open about it), but if you're going to do a background and heavy planting you'll probably be better off up-sizing. PLUS!...around this month or so, petco has a great dollar per gal sale, and a 20gal long would work out great for what it sounds like you have planned.

4. Really do your research before you build....and have lots of time...if something needs to be dry to move on to the next step, dry the hell out of it...Also remember what the backside looking in will look like when you're building the background ( I use black silicone to block out )

5. Pothos are great all around and require little/no work, but you can get a lot of info from a thread on plants here.

6. $65 is a friendly price for that frog.

7. I don't use leave litter (which is usually fallen leaves), but a lot of people do. It's fairly inexpensive and can be purchased in a ready-to-use condition by sponsors on this forum.

As far as your supplies go....just watch videos and read about viv builds and you'll pick up on what you want to use. Have fun and let us see what you end up doing!


----------



## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Welcome to the hobby, experience across the board helps when transitioning to darts. Your initial post shows you have a base, and a penchant for learning more. Your questions have been well answered I think, for the most part. Congrats to you, and best of luck.

Jbear


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Regardless if you go with a false bottom or a hydrotone layer is a personal decision but you should make allowences to drain excess water out of the tank. This can be done a number of ways but one of the easiest if you just have one tank is to take a short length of PVC and a cap that fits on it (available at most big box hardware stores) and on one end of the pvc make a lot of perforations or slits which allows water to enter the pipe so you can siphon it out (a sump in miniture). This either goes in before the hydrotone or through the false bottom and the cap keeps the frogs and other unwanted things from falling into it and getting potentially trapped. The pvc and cap can be hidden under a cocohut for ease of access. 

The next thing you want to do is make the tank hard for the fruit flies to escape. There are many ways to do this but most depend on how your going to work your lid. If you don't fruit fly proof it, they will walk around your house and seek out your beverage in which to leap. 

The last important thing is to make sure you don't have an issue with culturing fruit flies and other feeders for the frog.

I should add that several girlfriends were traded in when they tried to make me get rid of animals..... The woman who ended up as my wife likes them. 

Ed


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

This is great! Thanks so much for answering my questions so thoroughly! Best of all I got an OK from the boyfriend; basically he's "going to let me decide" but to make sure this isn't just an impulse thing. Which sounds fair enough to me. I'll be doing more research for the next week or 2 and then start building my new tank if I decide it's not just an impulse. Hopefully the guy selling the frog isn't in a hurry to get rid of her.


@love_chariot - Although at the moment my goal isn't for a pair... I know me well enough to know that I will want one eventually, because that's just how I am 

@frogface - I'll keep an eye out for that at the hardware store!

@crank68516 - thanks for explaining leaf litter to me, good to know. and I'm pretty sure I'll want another in a few mins like you said lol

@frog dude - thanks so much for the explanation of how to layer things, I was actually a little confused about it so it helps a lot!

@jdooley195 - Thanks for the plant suggestion and I'll keep an eye open for that sale!

@jbherpin - thanks very much for the compliment. I'm really looking forward to learning so much more from everyone!

@ed you made me laugh - The boyfriend is the one I hide my live foods from worms the fridge, the fly jar in the garage etc lol. When newt feeding time comes he's all squeemish that I have to chop up worms lol. Culturing them shouldn't be a problem


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

suztor said:


> @ed you made me laugh - The boyfriend is the one I hide my live foods from worms the fridge, the fly jar in the garage etc lol. When newt feeding time comes he's all squeemish that I have to chop up worms lol. Culturing them shouldn't be a problem


 
My wife did draw the line when the blackworms in the fridge engineered a mass escape.... I had to get a dorm fridge to hold my feeders. 

Ed


----------



## rsain (Nov 5, 2011)

Here are a few good things to study. There are lots of little gems buried within these threads. It is worth your while to read every page. If you haven't done so already read EVERY "sticky" post on here. I have some linked below - but not all of them. The following threads I'm linking directly to are things that have helped me quite a bit. I am missing many - ones I forgot to bookmark so follow links buried in these threads to find even more good info. 

CARE SHEETS! Read them. NUTRITION - figure it out immediately before you get any frogs this includes culturing various species of bugs and dosing with supplements (dont forget to replace the supplements every 6 months). 

*Substrate issues* - Truth-about-abg-mix

*Culturing some bugs for you viv and frogs* - 

How-culture-isopods-woodlice-springtails.html

*General viv construction discussions* -

Custom-silicone-hinged-glass-top.html

Scrap-vivarium.html

Peninsula.html

Pics-my-new-constructed-vivarium.html

How-build-viv-motydesign.html

*Culturing fruit flies*

I actually got most of my information from one of our vendors - Josh's. He has some great tutorials on his site in the form of videos. Remember - you cannot completely prevent mites - just control them.

Culturing Fruit Flies - by Josh

*Some other useful threads*:

Good-threads-read-beginners.html

My-top-10-beginner-mistakes.html

Have fun! Be patient. Give your frogs the best 'pseudo home' you can give them. 

- ryan


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

thanks for those links I've read through some of them already but I will continue to check them out.

I read through all 22 some pages of beginner mistakes lol and having salamanders I've made a few of those... especially the great stuff mistakes.


----------



## rsain (Nov 5, 2011)

You're welcome! I hope you find them as useful as I have.

- ryan


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

hummm ok Ive finally convinced the bf it's a good idea to let me have a frog. Hehe I've been using the word frogs even though I'm only getting one to prime his brain for when I get a mate for her.

I dragged him out to the local petco to look at tanks to get a feel with what 
he is comfortable with in size (since he is going to have to look at it everyday) and it looks like we settled on a 29gal which is much bigger than I thought he would choose! He also made promising comments about other cool shaped tanks (more froggies in my future perhaps?)

So, the build is going to be very interesting. While trying to get some sort of foundation for my plans.... I had some more questions...


How on earth do you attach some of these plants? Like broms and Orchids? I can just find people saying "I attached so and so plant" but they never say how?! 

Are pots a good idea to build into the background?

Is it a bad Idea to do a combo LECA / Egg Crate background. I want to have a big hill to add to the square inches of the floor space. instead of piling soil super high I'm thinking of doing an eggcrate tiered hill structure to fill out the hill(s)

I know water features are semi frowned upon in first builds but I'm not totally new to it. So I'm considering doing some sort of built in drip wall/ really slow waterfall.... I'd love to find a submersible pump that uses airline tubing any ideas? reason I want a water feature is because I think it will help keep humidity up and since I'm not really planning on a fogger I'd like something that will help in addition to daily misting. (it's really dry here so I want to build in sort of a back up plan)

I can't seem to find much opinion on whether cement is good or bad for the Frogs. should I be concerned?

great stuff on glass... instead of spraying straight on to the glass and having it not hold as well or having to spread Silicon all over the back first... has anyone ever tried sanding down the glass some? like roughing it up?

 why is the blue can of GS always suggested? is there something wrong with the Red can? or is it that it just expands more?

do Tincs use any sort of vertical space? Can you trick them into using vertical space by making ramps?


Thanks! in advance!!


oh yeah!
I find my self wishing I could find stickies on the following topics, I've searched a ton but it would be nice to have a condensed and to the point tutorial on some of this stuff (perhaps I will write some of these someday):

What plants go where? (Where plants do the best at and how to put them there 'attaching' planting do well in pots etc.)

What moss? (live dead how's it all work?!)

LECA vs Egg Crate- not that i haven't figured it out but that I just had to search in a lot of places to get a nice rounded view on opinions of these materials.

A clear explanation on Silicone - there's a really good thread out there that was from '09 that I think comes down to if you are willing to have a little risk using GE silicone I is OK, although aquarium grade silicone is preferred and GE silicone II is a big fat NO 

and a basic plant type/suggestion tutorial



Its way past my bed time with all this researching!!!


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Okay let's try this again.. an inadvertant movement of my hand closed the window the last time. 



suztor said:


> How on earth do you attach some of these plants? Like broms and Orchids? I can just find people saying "I attached so and so plant" but they never say how?!


It really depends on where you are attempting to place the plant.. There are many options ranging from pinning (tooth picks to chop stick (I use chopsticks), to glueing (gel safety glues), tieing (wire or fishing line), stapleing.... 





suztor said:


> Are pots a good idea to build into the background?


Not if you can ensure that they can drain. Many of the plants mounted on the background don't like to be saturated all of the time. They do better if the media drains and allows thier roots to breath. In addition, if the pots can't drain, then they can also go anaerobic causing the tank to smell. So keep in mind that they need to drain excess water. 



suztor said:


> Is it a bad Idea to do a combo LECA / Egg Crate background. I want to have a big hill to add to the square inches of the floor space. instead of piling soil super high I'm thinking of doing an eggcrate tiered hill structure to fill out the hill(s)


No it isn't bad but keep in mind that you'll have to have a slope that allows for the substrate to stay in place and not migrate from the top down to the bottom. There are many ways to do this, stacking cut pieces of lighting diffuser, cutting pieces of osmunda board or making a hill with hydroton or even clay. 





suztor said:


> I know water features are semi frowned upon in first builds but I'm not totally new to it. So I'm considering doing some sort of built in drip wall/ really slow waterfall.... I'd love to find a submersible pump that uses airline tubing any ideas? reason I want a water feature is because I think it will help keep humidity up and since I'm not really planning on a fogger I'd like something that will help in addition to daily misting. (it's really dry here so I want to build in sort of a back up plan)


Keep in mind that the pump must be accessiable for you to take care of it and replace it when necessary. Too often the pump dies and you have to move/tear out plants that have grown in nicely. In additon, if you mount bromeliads and orchids to the background, most of them will not appreciate having wet feet all the time. You need to make sure that the substrate can drain properly or it will stagnate and smell like a disturbed swamp. Drip walls and other water features can also cause a lot of spray which results in mineral deposits on the glass as well as saturated substrates where the spray hits or gets into through wicking. 





suztor said:


> I can't seem to find much opinion on whether cement is good or bad for the Frogs. should I be concerned?


It is fine if it is well cured and/or sealed. This thread may give you some more ideas for thought http://www.bbrock.frognet.org/Making artificial trees and vines.pdf 





suztor said:


> great stuff on glass... instead of spraying straight on to the glass and having it not hold as well or having to spread Silicon all over the back first... has anyone ever tried sanding down the glass some? like roughing it up?


Can't help you there but the person to ask is Doug (screen name Pumilio). 



suztor said:


> why is the blue can of GS always suggested? is there something wrong with the Red can? or is it that it just expands more?


The blue can doesn't expand as much as the red can. This helps prevent people from blowing out the sides/back of the tank from the pressure as it expands and less carving and clean up. 





suztor said:


> do Tincs use any sort of vertical space? Can you trick them into using vertical space by making ramps?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! in advance!!


As a general (very) rule of thumb, the smaller the frog the more it will use verticle space however even tinctorius (particularly the dwarfs) will climb. The heavier bodied tinctorius tend to slide back down but if provided they can and will use ramps. They may not use them as much as you would like as it depends on where the food and temperatures are correct. 





suztor said:


> What moss? (live dead how's it all work?!)


In general, the frogs would appreciate leaf litter more than they will moss. If you have bright lights, you will probably see moss grow in the tank but that moss is more for your general aesthetic appeal than the frogs.... 


Some comments

Ed


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

crank68516 said:


> 1) Will a Dwarf Tinc. Bakhuis do well by herself?
> Should be fine but you will want another after a few minutes.
> Chris


That's too funny and right on target!



Ed said:


> Okay let's try this again.. an inadvertant movement of my hand closed the window the last time.
> 
> (regarding sanding glass, great stuff, and silicone)
> 
> ...


You are getting some good advice here so I am only addressing the subject where my name was mentioned. I would hesitate to sand glass. If you sand with a larger grit to really rough it up, like a 60 or 80 grit, you will basically be scoring it. To cut glass we score it (a deep scratch) and break it with pressure. So deep sanding could weaken it. Light sanding may effectively help with attachment except that I would still not trust great stuff for a permant bond with glass. Silicone, on the other hand, bonds to glass like nobodies business. Fish tanks are bonded with silicone and the pressure on those joints is huge. They are not etched or sanded.
Now for why I don't trust a great stuff bond on glass. I built my 50 gallon Solarte viv and I used great stuff to fill and bond the cork bark flats and curves onto the back glass. Within about 6 weeks of beginning misting, I was tearing it back apart as all the cork bark began to separate from the glass. It stayed firmly bonded to the cork bark, but let go of the glass completely. Yes, I properly cleaned the glass with alcohol before applying the great stuff. While some have reported success with that bond, too many others have reported the same failed bond with the glass that I am reporting.
I like GE silicone 1 which, unfortunately, is harder to find in black than GE 2. You'll probably have to go online for it. GE silicone 2 has Organotins in it which could contribute to spindly leg syndrome and egg failure. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/35720-bio-seal.html


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

thanks to both of you guys for answering.

Firstly, Ed, Thank You for taking the time to retype everything after having closed the window! (I hate it when that happens!)

In regard to attaching broms etc. I guess now that you say it, wire and toothpicks make perfect sense... chopsticks and super glue (gel?), not sure I get it. But, I may be underestimating the size of some of these plants I suppose.

Pots, I can always drill holes but then again it's probably not necessary to put the plants in pots. Although I was hoping to get a sort of cascade of some small leafed vine plant but from what I read (on joshsfrogs) the Tinc. is likely to destroy it being rather 'big' (I'm hoping someone tells me I'm wrong. but I'm not holding my breath)

Water feature - I have a plan of sort of making a tree trunk w/ buttress roots in a corner that is hollow and I can access the bottom of the tank through... still trying to work out dynamics with that though. I've always found it a little mind boggling that people make their pumps inaccessible. It was my first concern when I built my custom 3d background in my tank for my mostly aquatic newts. I've seen it a lot on the Caudata forum.

The hill - I'm planning on building the egg crate, terraced much like rice fields on hills except just with smoother lines/curves.

That tree tutorial practically has me salivating (there must be something wrong with me lol). Can't wait to get started on this project! I've already started mocking up vines that I will coat and press in coco fiber and other stuff. I'm having a hard time not getting started so I figure I'd start small and make elements I'm going to use.

Silicone ,great-stuff and glass - I've had some experience with GS coming off the glass in the past (I'll be hard pressed to GS directly to smooth glass ever again) that's why I thought about sanding. You raise a good point about the weakening of the integrity of the glass and I don't really want to compromise a brand new tank. So that is out of the question. Although, for some reason I have a hard time with the idea of putting silicone on the entire back of the tank. I'm more comfortable using pink insulation foam sheets great stuffing to that then applying it to the tank. I'll have to see though, I may just get over it... sooo many options.

I work at a printshop so I'm always bring home stuff that was going to be thrown out like 1/8" acrylic sheets and T5 light fixtures... I have access to adhesive vinyl which I'll probably use to make the back look nicer even though it wont be seen. And I have access to ordering all sorts of fun goodies that are intended for print shop use!

I really appreciate you guys reading through my story book posts and taking the time to answer thoroughly! 

One more question I just thought of...
is there a difference between regular D. Tinc Bahkuis and Dwarf D. Tinc Bahkuis? or are they one and the same?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Yes, the super glue gel can be used to attach small plants to locations until they root. Overtime, it can come loose so don't consider it is a permanent solution. The chopsticks work just like big toothpicks... I cut them with a heavy duty parrot beak wire cutters. The size and thickness helps hold bromeliads where you want them while they root (and pup) and since the bromeliads can hold surprising amounts of water, they can get too heavy for the toothpicks. 

With respect to the small vining plants, generally if given a chance they root well enough that the frogs don't damage them. Depending on the tank, I tend to use very little in the way of vining plants as once they establish they tend to be aggressive and prefer to grow across the top shading the tank. 

Ed


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

In addition to wire and glue and toothpicks and staples, I also use those wooden skewers that you can get by the 100s for a couple bucks at the grocery.


----------



## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Ed said:


> Yes, the super glue gel can be used to attach small plants to locations until they root. Overtime, it can come loose so don't consider it is a permanent solution. The chopsticks work just like big toothpicks... I cut them with a heavy duty parrot beak wire cutters. The size and thickness helps hold bromeliads where you want them while they root (and pup) and since the bromeliads can hold surprising amounts of water, they can get too heavy for the toothpicks.
> 
> With respect to the small vining plants, generally if given a chance they root well enough that the frogs don't damage them. *Depending on the tank, I tend to use very little in the way of vining plants as once they establish they tend to be aggressive and prefer to grow across the top shading the tank. *
> Ed


I have always aimed to provide a canopy. I have always felt that this was most natural for them. I am not saying they like living in a cave(that dark...), but I do feel they like to have overhead cover to feel secure hunting, etc. This is just how I do it though.

JBear


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It depends heavily on the species.. a number of dendrobatids actually do best in disturbed and/or edge regions. In those cases there is actually less canopy than you may expect. Also some of the Epdidobates actually live in grass areas. 

The covering of the canopy depends on what you are trying to do with the enclosure.. It doesn't do a lot of good to end up with vining plants heavily shading the lower portions of the tank where the plants that are actually important for the frogs (such as bromeliads for one example) end up doing poorly or growing abnormally). 

Ed


----------



## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Ed said:


> It depends heavily on the species.. a number of dendrobatids actually do best in disturbed and/or edge regions. In those cases there is actually less canopy than you may expect. Also some of the Epdidobates actually live in grass areas.
> 
> The covering of the canopy depends on what you are trying to do with the enclosure.. It doesn't do a lot of good to end up with vining plants heavily shading the lower portions of the tank where the plants that are actually important for the frogs (such as bromeliads for one example) end up doing poorly or growing abnormally).
> 
> Ed


I do not use Broms. in fact, the only other plant I use besides Pothos, is a creeping fig of some sort, and that is only in 1 of my vivs; the P. vittatus viv. This is not to suggest they(Broms) are not a benefit to the frogs in numerous ways(shelter/breeding/egg deposition/tad deposition), I just choose to use pill jars, etc. The only species I have that would potentially use Broms as breeding sites are the R. sirensis. At least to my understanding. Thanks Ed!

Edit: I just realized I was hijacking, all my apologies, I will keep it on track.

JBear


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks for not hijacking 

So I realized that I needed to set up a temp tank now if I'm going to be getting my frogs in early Feb from the seller. I'll probably be putting a down payment on them soon.

So last night I set up a temp 10 gallon. Figured it would be helpful to try and work out humidity and the likes is really basic.

1inch LECA 
fiberglass mesh
1.5 inch ecoearth coco fiber
some Exo-Terra forest moss to top it off

And I boiled the coco hut and the mopani log I put it there for almost an hour. 
Planted some 
-Wandering Jew
-Creeping Charlie 
-philodendron
-a generic brom(I think?) that I picked up at Petco and sanitized in a 5% bleach dip.
(looks like it will grow really big)


I'll post a picture of it later today if anyone cares.


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

It is fine if it is well cured and/or sealed. This thread may give you some more ideas for thought http://www.bbrock.frognet.org/Making artificial trees and vines.pdf​
I've read through this several times and i just wanted to make sure the product I'm thinking:

QUIKRETE® - Concrete Acrylic Fortifier

Is what is called for as the sealant (I've used it for my salamander build in the cement mix) 

Otherwise what is another Acrylic sealant I can use for when I paint my tree trunk and roots?


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

*Josh's Frogs shopping list*

So I'm going to be putting an order in at Josh's frogs tomorrow and was wondering if I could get some input on my shopping list
____________________________________________
Long Fiber Sphagnum Moss 200g x1

ABG mix (8 quart/2 Gallon) x2

Exo Terra Hygrometer (Analog) x1

Exo Terra Thermometer C&F (Analog) x1

3 inch net cup x3 in case I want to build it into the bg

Magnolia Leaves x 1 (i really want the oak that are smaller but they are out)

DELUXE Melanogaster Culture Kit WITHOUT Flies (SMALL KIT) x1
___________________________

I'm doing an egg crate false bottom and have fiberglass mesh to use as the substrate divider custom made buttress roots and background with GS..

is there a general preference if the tank is done on 2 or 3 sides? (like GS on 2 or 3 walls / corner tank or front view only)

The deluxe fly kit comes with Herptivite, Rep-Cal Ultrafine with D-3 should I be using that or something else?


----------



## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

sounds good. be sure to get your hands on some flies to go with the cultering kit, though.


----------



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

yeah,I'm planning on getting a culture from Petco when time gets a little closer to actually getting them.

I'm going to be getting my tank tomorrow start getting my build all put togeather!!!  (we need an eeeeee! excited face)


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

suztor said:


> yeah,I'm planning on getting a culture from Petco when time gets a little closer to actually getting them.
> 
> I'm going to be getting my tank tomorrow start getting my build all put togeather!!!  (we need an eeeeee! excited face)


If you can get the cultures locally from another hobbyist or AZDR, you will probably get a better quality culture. 

Ed


----------

