# Frogs not moving



## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

I'm sure you get this question a lot but I got two super blues and I put them in my 10 gallon vert about 4 days ago and they were pretty active and bold. For the last 2 days they've been hanging out on the very top left and right sides (one on each side) on the glass and don't move. They move around when I mist inside and slide down a little when the glass gets too wet then hop back up but for the most part they won't budge. I fed them today and only one moved down a little to see then went back to the top. They're not really scared because there in the middle of the glass.



thanks.


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## angry gary (Dec 9, 2009)

two auratus in a 10 gallon vert? i would say it is too small for the pair. a 10 laid out longways would be better than vertically. even then i think either way is way too small. 

AG


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

A 10 gallon terrestrial tank is not too small for a couple auratus. Vertical, yes....at least once they're adults.


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

One of them moved down and had some flies so I'll just let them be. How about a 20 gallon vert when they grow up?


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Do you have any pictures or other information on the tank? I've found that if a frog feels stressed, such as from lack of enough hiding places, they tend to climb up and stay at the top corners like you are describing. Also, as others have said, they would do better in a 10 gallon horizontal or larger because they are not as arboreal as frogs like many Ranitomeya.
Bryan


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

angry gary said:


> two auratus in a 10 gallon vert? i would say it is too small for the pair. a 10 laid out longways would be better than vertically. even then i think either way is way too small.
> 
> AG


I agree, glad someone feels like me...

JBear


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Ya because 10 gallons is cruel...20 gallons makes auratus feel like they're in the amazon rainforest! Come on dude..give me a break. 

Use the biggest tank you can afford to use...YES, I agree with that. But don't knock people who use 10 gallon tanks for certain species of frogs because it's perfectly fine and I promise you that frogs will thrive in many different sizes of tanks. I knew a guy that has kept a pair of auratus in a 10 gallon tank since he got the frogs in 1992 and I think he lost them in 2008 or so. 

There's plenty of other good points of advice to give rookies than telling them that a 10 gallon tank for auratus is terrible. Obviously a 10 vert is way too smal, but a 10 gallon tank is perfectly fine for a pair. 10 gallons per frog is not a rule, I'm sorry but it's not.

I've seen people say that 20 gallon should be minimum for a tinc pair, then they show their tank, and the terrestrial floor space utilized is probably like 7 gallons with the rest badly placed plants and water features.

I keep large tanks and small tanks. With my new rack upgrade, I've been using larger 20 gallon extra talls with front opening doors so frogs like pumilio and other active frogs have a lot of floor space. 

I have my azureus pair in a 10 gallon and won't move them out of this tank as they're breeding so well and this pair always get stressed when I move them. I've had them breeding in a 29 gallon tank and honestly, they're creatures of habit and preferred to stay within a designated area. Are they happy frogs? I'm sure they are. They haven't told me I'm cruel yet and if laying 10 eggs at a time is cruel, then I'm doing something wrong. 

I've also been keeping dart frogs since 1998 while I of course prefer larger tanks for all my frogs, sometimes using a 10 gallon isn't a bad idea! Not just as a grow out tank, but as a breeding tank for healthy and happy pairs.

I'm not trying to argue honestly...just giving you another perspective. I'm just as serious about dart frogs as anyone. It's all I do as a hobby. I'm not out to make money or hoard frogs either.

I just don't want newbies to get the wrong idea. Some new people here have enough problems just sorting out all the info they read and many are extremely confused. Whatever works for the keeper/breeder is how info gets out there.

One negative point of using ten gallon tanks for pairs that I have found is that plants need to be cut back a lot more.

I need a root canal and have a toothache that would drop an elephant right now...so I'm a little grumpy tonight lol.


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

Okay, just relax. They've been in there for less than a week. I never said I wasn't open to changing anything, I'm going to pet smart tomorrow I'll pickup a 20 and lay it flat or something a little bigger.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

DJboston said:


> Ya because 10 gallons is cruel...20 gallons makes auratus feel like they're in the amazon rainforest! Come on dude..give me a break.
> 
> Use the biggest tank you can afford to use...YES, I agree with that. But don't knock people who use 10 gallon tanks for certain species of frogs because it's perfectly fine and I promise you that frogs will thrive in many different sizes of tanks. I knew a guy that has kept a pair of auratus in a 10 gallon tank since he got the frogs in 1992 and I think he lost them in 2008 or so.
> 
> ...


I am not interested in a thread hijack, but would like to respond. I was reffering to Tincs more directly than other species. I think a 10 gal is suitable for many smaller species, even as a vert. I would be comfortable housing a pair or a small group of pums, imis, vents, vitts, and any other small species in a 10 gal. I completely agree that this tank is usable, reasonable, and adequate, just not for the large Darts like Tincs and the large Phyllobates.

I am not one to take offense to opinion normally, so don't worry about letting me have it. I feel for you and the tooth probs, been there many times, I hope you feel better VERY soon, 

JBear


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

steelyphil said:


> Okay, just relax. They've been in there for less than a week. I can get a bigger tank.


You are fine. Even if you did, you would still need to allow it to grow in. Take your time. 

JBear


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanks for understanding..lol

See Jbear, I'm completely opposite...I think tincs are slow moving frogs that require less space than species like pumilio.

Of course, it depends on the tinc. Some tincs are massive and some are smaller. I don't think 10 is ideal, but many use it for breeding pairs and it works just fine for them. Tincs don't require much to do great. There are far more demanding species. Size of frog doesn't mean a whole lot. Tincs become so far removed from the wild in captivity to the point of sitting around waiting to be fed, and breeding. Pumilio have many more complex behaviors and occupy their own micro-habitats. Then again, if I had a giant pair of reginas I'll make sure to give them more than a 10 gallon.

My bassleri are 6 months old. When they're adults, I will have to use a large enclosure as they can out jump tincs 10-1. 

I think it depends on the species, how active personalities certain frogs have, how well the landscaping is set-up, etc.

It's not as simple as 10 gallons per frog.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

DJboston said:


> Thanks for understanding..lol
> 
> See Jbear, I'm completely opposite...I think tincs are slow moving frogs that require less space than species like pumilio.
> 
> ...


You make a very good point in that Tincs are not prone to leaps of any great distance. They are walkers and hoppers for sure. I appreciate the feedback and the new perspective.

JBear


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Jbear, my favorite tank for tinc pairs are 15 gallons. That's what black jungle uses for a lot of their frogs. Also I think they use 20 highs as well which are the same floor space but you can obviously build better levels in it. 

To the original poster, I put my trio of leucs in a 10 gallon vert as a grow out tank and was curious as to how they would use the height and they were up top a lot. I got them in November and they looked like they just came out of the water when they got here. After 4 months they look like sub-adults already. Never seen a group of frogs grow so fast. Hoping I hear calling soon but I don't know how size will make a difference if they're still young. I figure 3 more months and I'll hear calling if I have a male. They're in a 10 terrestrial right now and they're doing good for now...though very active during certain times of the day.

Later 
D


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

I'm fine with 10 gallons for a pair of auratus, but a 10 gallon vert is what makes it unsuitable in my opinion because that gives much less floor space. I probably wouldn't put more than a pair of anything in a 10, maybe a trio of smaller Ranitomeya, but preferably not and definitely not a group of pumilio. Regardless... back to the subject- Can we see some pictures of the set-up? That might give us an idea of how to improve it and make the frogs feel secure enough to come out and explore.
Bryan


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

I am using a 10 gallon vert that has been maturing for 5 months. Been saving it for frogs I still need to pick up from a friend up north. For now I put a spare yellow belly pumilio in there that is being traded to Sean stewart once the weather warms. Need to be 100% certain my pair is actually 1.1 and that this one is the non-calling outcast male I thought.

So I figured while he waits for shipping he'd enjoy the 10 vert as it's built up a lot of microfauna without frogs in there. He loves the height from what I can tell.


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

I'll get a video up in a few minutes.


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

2011-03-05_13-05-23_1.mp4 video by quadman1234 - Photobucket


They seem to be coming out more now but I guess the question is now how long can they stay in there.


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

temporarily place some sort of paper or cardboard on the outside, sides of the viv. they will feel more secure. that viv is very open and no plants on the floor. i think thats why they are staying to the back of the cage.

i would just kinda close it in on 3 sides and see if you see them come out more.

and give them time. if i mess with my leuc tank thats been up over a year now, they will hide for a couple of days.

if yr asking how long they can live in that viv? forever.

10g vert is small to me, but many breeders keep all their frogs in 10g tanks. so if it were me id leave them there and take yr time making them a bigger enclosure if you want to.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

Are you sure those aren't powder blues? I am seeing black and yellow in the bodies on that video. They look more like tincs then Auratus


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

or cobalts

can you video a close up of the frogs for us?


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

Nope, no yellow.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Those look nothing like an auratus. Here is a link to several auratus that Josh's frogs sells for comparison...
Advanced Search - Josh's Frogs

The leg pattern on yours look similar to many tincs, but I don't know about the rest of the body...I don't think I've seen any with a pattern like that that were green and black. Where did you get them?


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

WOW!! That frog does look interesting. I would like to know if that frog is cross-bred?


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## AzureFrog (Feb 3, 2009)

steelyphil said:


> Nope, no yellow.


Sorry but... definitely NOT a "Super Blue"!


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Here is a picture of my super blue from "Kyle".


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## nyfrogs (May 1, 2005)

looks like a powder blue, not a super blue. any way you got the name mixed up?


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Here a pic of one of our Powder Blues. 

Some have yellow, some don't.










It's definately not a Super Blue Auratus.


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

Oh no. You can't imagine how stupid I feel right now. They were powder blues. Is it possible that the yellow is faded into a greenish yellow blue? Or maybe since their young the colors havn't fully come out yet?

I got them from Alpha pro breeders at the hamburg show. 

http://www.alphaprobreeders.com/products/Powder-Blues.html

Havn't really dove deep into all the species yet, I mixed up the names


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## nyfrogs (May 1, 2005)

powder blues are better to have anyway IMO. more outgoing and get bigger! get atleast a 10 gallon horizontal they will be happy


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

When was this show?

Most of the Powder Blues Alpha Pro are selling after Jan. of this year were bred by me and are F1s from WC parents.



steelyphil said:


> Oh no. You can't imagine how stupid I feel right now. They were powder blues. Is it possible that the yellow is faded into a greenish yellow blue? Or maybe since their young the colors havn't fully come out yet?
> 
> I got them from Alpha pro breeders at the hamburg show.
> 
> ...


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

It was on the 25th or 26th of Febuary I believe.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Most likely its one of the ones I produced then. It looks like all of my offspring.

Like others stated a 10gal. horizontal setup will be much appreciated for tincs over a vert.

This line of Powders stay all white no grey legs or yellow on the head or back.

Edit: Added a pic of the parents.


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

Cool! Thanks for the info, especially regarding the colors. That cleared up a few questions. As for the tank, I'll put them together a 20 horizontally and move them in there once its grown in a little.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

No problem. 

20 longs are good but not necessary in my opinion. I keep all my tincs pairs in 10 gals. except WC pairs in 20 longs and this works great.
You don't have to go overboard with the plants for tincs; if you want they are perfectly happy with some pothos and leaf litter. In fact like others stated on this thread and another thread recently overgrown tanks can actually hinder floor space for tincs.

I would make a 10gal. horizontal for the Powder Blues until they are a little older so they can have easier access to find food while they are still growing and then think about a 20 long when they approach 12 months of age or older.

Use the 10gal. vert for a nice pair of thumbs.


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## steelyphil (May 8, 2010)

k, thanks for the advice. As for plants, I don't really keep them for breeding so I usually keep it looking pretty. As long as it doesn't hinder their momement or ability to find food I like to keep a nice variety of plants.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Sounds good.
I cannot wait to see these guys grow up.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Very cool frog. Glad you got your I.D. on them, especially the breeder!!


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Yes, congrats on the Powder Blues! My husband has added them to my list...he's been wanting to get some of them. That's pretty cool that they start out with a green tint...I didn't know that. I'm sure you've got some healthy froglets. You'll find that Ron is a good breeder and will be just as helpful to you as Paul has been.


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