# Tinctorius inactive, not eating, cloudy eye



## Reila0405 (6 mo ago)

Hello, 
I seek help/advice. 
I have an adult (3 years old) male dendrobates tinctorius. I've had him for about 4 months. Up to last week everything was fine, he was full of life, jumping around, etc. I noticed one day that when he tried to jump out of water pool, he did it "weirdly", like one of rear legs didn't follow him. It was okay for the next few days. 2 days ago, he stopped eating, moved to a water tank. He sits there all the time (day and night), doesn't move much, doesn't react to friut flies nor springtails walking on him. His eyes also seem cloudy. 
As for tank conditions: tank is 40x40x60 cm (16x16x24 inches), temperature is 22-26C (75-79F), humidity at constant lvl of 75%. I feed him once a day, dusting fruit flies twice a week with Repashy SuperVite and CalciumPlus. The substrate in the tank is coconut, and leaf litter on top of it. Plants are 1 bromeliad, 2 some other terrarium plants I don't know the name of. Plus 2 coconut hideouts. 
I called a vet, however there are none in a driving range from my place that would know how to handle a frog. 
Since yesterday evening, I'm exchanging water in his tank about every 3 hours. His eye seems less cloudy at the moment, however the rest of the symptoms didn't get better.
Is there anything I can do to help him?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Reila0405 said:


> I feed him once a day, dusting fruit flies twice a week with Repashy SuperVite and CalciumPlus


Every feeding should be dusted with a high quality supplement (Repashy calcium plus). No need to mix with supervite. 

From the sounds of it, the tank doesn't sound appropriate for tinctorius. The water feature/pool , substrate of coco fibre, 

To better help us help you, please answer the questions in the attached thread and post them here. 









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Answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste -- please don't quote because that makes it hard to read the responses): 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)? 2. What are your...




www.dendroboard.com


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## Reila0405 (6 mo ago)

1. Dendrobates tinctorius robertus. I've had him for 4 months. Got him at exotic animal convention. He's captive bred.
2. Temperature during the day about 26C (79F), at night drops to 24C (75F). I measure it with analog hygrometer and termometer (ExoTerra). During winter (well, till April, as the temperatures here were still low) there was a heat lamp 75W. 
3. Currently no heat lamp, just normal led lamp turned on between 8am and 7pm. 
4. Humidity 75% constant. There's also a water bowl with filtrated water, exchanged everyday. Hand spraying the tank twice a day (morning & evening).
5. Tank 40x40x60 cm (16x16x24 inches). 1/4 of the top lid is metal grid for ventillation. On the front ground lvl also the grid (a stripe wide 1cm, length 40 cm), just below the opening "doors" of the tank.
6. Fruit flies, dusted twice a week with Repashy Supervite&CalciumPlus. Vitamins were bought in March and they're opened since then. Springtails are also available in the tank all the time. 
7. No.
8. As described above in the post. 
9. Yes, about 2 weeks ago, when I opened the tank he almost jumped out when he saw a cup with fruit flies. I gently placed my hand on the opening lvl of the tank and gently guided him back to his enclosure. I barely touched his front legs. My hands were washed with soap and water before, as I always do just in case before feeding time.
10. Added to the post. Sorry for the quality of them,but it's alreadyevening here and my phone isn't the best. The frog remains most of the time in a position like captured on the photos.


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## Reila0405 (6 mo ago)

One more thing that comes to my mind - and I think it's important. The breeder told me to only use Repashy Supervite. In April (after I've had him for about a month) I added to his diet CalciumPlus, as other people pointed out that Supervite is definitely not enough. Not sure how he was fed before I got him.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

'Repashy Calcium Plus' is simply 'Repashy Supervite' with added 'Superpig' (carotenoid mix). Either Calcium Plus or Supervite is acceptable, but Calcium Plus is better because of the carotenoids (which are known to provide benefits to darts).

Two possibilities that I see. One is that since the frog has only gotten 2/7 of the supplement dust it needs (dusting two out of every seven feedings, when it should be every time) it is is hypocalcemic (not enough calcium and Vitamin D3). This is consistent with the lethargy, the sitting in water (it is speculated that the pain of calcium being sucked out of bones causes animals to try to take pressure off themselves) and possibly with the cloudy eye (lack of D3 can cause lowered immune response).

Another possibility is impaction, which sometimes causes hind limb paralysis. Coco fiber is a bad substrate for a few reasons, one of which is that it is an impaction risk (I've lost animals kept on it). I'm not sure if impacted animals tend to sit in water, but a blockage that affects feeding can send an already vitamin-deficient animal into a downward spiral (since then the animal is taking in no nutrition).


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## Reila0405 (6 mo ago)

Thank you so much for your input. Is there anything I can do for him at this point or is it too late?
About the coconut fiber - it's in the "powdered" form. There aren't any branches that could restrict his movement/cause an impact. Is this one bad too?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I understand that it is something about the microstructure of the coco fiber that makes it difficult to pass if ingested. I don't have any technical knowledge about it, though. I'd not use coco substrate with darts, at all.

If the frog isn't eating, heroic measures would likely be needed. A qualified exotics vet could actually diagnose the issue (which hobbyists can't really do, and certainly not over the internet) and recommend treatment. Hypovitaminosis can be corrected in the early stages -- if that is what it is. (Someone might jump in here and recommend calcium drops on the back of the frog; I don't have enough knowledge to direct that treatment, and don't like recommending shotgun treatment in general. But someone else might.) If the vet diagnoses some sort of blockage, they may be able to remove it -- they can in larger reptiles, anyway, and I read that it is often successful in those cases. 

But if you don't have a vet available, I personally (this is just me) would give it a couple days to see if it improves or continues to degrade, and if the latter I would euthanize the frog, rebuild the viv appropriately and supplement appropriately with future animals.

Since you can't rule out a pathogen, the most prudent path (again, in my opinion) would be to strip the viv down as far as needed to disinfect it (10% bleach with a 10 minute contact time). Having a necropsy done on the frog might save you that chore. Some keepers might assume that since the situation had a couple explanations that don't involve pathogens there isn't good reason to think there are any pathogens involved.


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## Reila0405 (6 mo ago)

Thank you again for everything you shared. I'll wait a few days to see how the situation evolves.


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