# Wild moss



## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

So recently I was in northern Wisconsin visiting my father in law, were talking pine forests and just around his house acres and acres of moss, his lawn is basically sparse grass and tons of mosses of all kinds, I ran to the grocery store and bought 2 gallon freezer bags and filled 4 of them up with 3 types of moss growing on 2 types of wood and the ground itself (birch, pine, sandy soil). I brought it home and processed it as anyone would, basically sprayed it down to bare root/ryzomes and froze it for 2 days in my freezer, than I soaked it for 24 hours and sprayed it down again for good measure. "I will never plant this moss in PDF tanks", microfauna is probably completely out, but I don't know what pine would do to a dart frog, plenty of tree frogs up there but still not risking it because of bacterias and fungus. BUT I am going to experiment anyway because moss is beautiful! I cleaned out a big nut container from Costco, drilled a tiny hole in the lid and placed raw moss no treatment into it and since I have 5 million springs slapped some in for giggles lol its doing well! next I bought a 2 pack of lidded cake tins from the grocery store, after cleaning I put the sheets of moss on a bed of sphagnum moss that was wet with distilled water, clicked the lid on and placed under my high intensity florescent plant shelf. Believe it or not Wisconsin has a huge amount of Sphagnum bogs up north where I collected this stuff!

My plans are to monitor it in cake tins on Sphagnum, put in the fridge for 2 weeks maybe after drying for a while (fall) and after 2 or so weeks place the tins in garbage bags and transfer them to the freezer for a good month of dormancy and than again directly into a fridge for 2 weeks for thaw, Im thinking I can trick it and grow awesome mosses for mini vivs that I can place around the house in window sills, I want to culture moss that will eventually expect dormancy during summer and growth in the winter months to offset winter blues lol I dont suffer from it because I have multiple jungles of my own growing everywhere but a lot of people get seriously depressed here, a mason jar of moss can cure a lot of poop if you ask me! if its a mini environment they never have to do anything with besides chuck in a freezer its worth it! Anyway heres a few pics of what I have so far.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

one of the tins


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

The entire tin on sphagnum, hopefully get growth going


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

This piece was on pine not liking pine), I scraped a lot of it away and am currently soaking it, its going in the next tin, there is still pine on the ryzomes that I couldn't get off but if you look closely at the pics I can culture the spore pods themselves, there are a ton!


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

This is pine, I scraped the back dead stuff off as best as I could, Im thinking since this isnt going in tanks to dry it out and place it in a garbage bag with antimite paper for a while, than soak freeze soak, kill off anthing remaining and maybe do a plant only tank somewhere in the house away from my frog room


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

The back side


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

What area in Northern Wisconsin did you go to?

I think it is mostly a myth that temperate mosses require a winter dormancy. I think it is more likely that native mosses usually decline in terrariums over time because they usually go into stagnant, sealed enclosures, such as pickle jars, with improper drainage and then get watered with tap water. 

I started a little setup to feature native mosses a little while ago. I have a thread about it right here... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/195786-mossery.html

You should get this new book. It's awesome. A biology professor from UW-Eau Claire and coauthors wrote it.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

I agree but wisco moss doesnt belong in columbia and vise versa, Im going to go ahead and grow it in controlled settings but in the end moss is moss, its one of the most primitive plants we have on earth and its extremely hard to diminish lol


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Ive visited your post a couple of times but I cant get around local woods and microfauna (to include bacterias and fungus) so ill probably collect spores if anything and see what I can do with that before introcuding it anywhere


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

I can only experiment fully, some say I harm the environment but I take a spade full here and there and literally "everything" is moss up there! Trees, logs, the ground lol im not worried that it will rebound because my spadeful will, but I can holefully propogate it and grow it on my own and there is never a rush anyway, maybe in 2-3 years I can cull it into tropical temperment and new mediums


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Oh I was in Three Lakes WI basically Eagle River but a good 10 miles away, pretty much in Wisconsin's national forest but just outside of it, I don't know law like that but I "think" national forests are federally protected. My source is just shy of that and is equally just as pristine... But were talkin pine forests not Columbia or Ecuador here


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Wusserton said:


> This is pine, I scraped the back dead stuff off as best as I could, Im thinking since this isnt going in tanks to dry it out and place it in a garbage bag with antimite paper for a while, than soak freeze soak, kill off anthing remaining and maybe do a plant only tank somewhere in the house away from my frog room



That log looks sick! Nice find. 


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## medusa (Oct 30, 2011)

Looking good! I like the cake pan idea. But I am wondering if the moss needs the pine that it was growing on. I'm certainly no moss expert. But the temperate mosses I have seen growing seem to prefer to grow on particular substrates. Maybe a bed of pine on top of sphagnum to hold the humidity would work? Anyway, let us know how it progresses.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Mohlerbear said:


> That log looks sick! Nice find.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You should see the wealth of other logs up there, were talking entire trees covered in it lol some of the moss grows on birch so I don't think its too necessary to have pine in the substrate



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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Ah I would just take a nap in all that moss. Lucky that have such awesome access!


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

medusa said:


> Looking good! I like the cake pan idea. But I am wondering if the moss needs the pine that it was growing on. I'm certainly no moss expert. But the temperate mosses I have seen growing seem to prefer to grow on particular substrates. Maybe a bed of pine on top of sphagnum to hold the humidity would work? Anyway, let us know how it progresses.


If I have to I can go get pine shavings for it but I couldnt get all the pine off the back anyway so it should feed it for a while, the soil is mainly leaf liter and sand with a little clay ...ill have to experiment with it lol


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## medusa (Oct 30, 2011)

I was thinking more of pine bark, or other tree bark, that was starting to decompose, similar to what it was growing on. I would think you would need to wet the pine shavings to start decomposition long before you add moss if it would be any value. But I guess if there is still some attached to moss colony this is all moot. I was under the impression that you had stripped it all away (and wondered why). Good Luck! I will be stealing your cake pan idea BTW


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Lol steal away! They are cheap little greenhouses


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Moss update: I accidentally let the lid off of one pan and it browned up, I watered/misted it and it looks like its rebounding, also have a ton of sporophytes so I will be collecting those and drying them out for spores, the other moss tin is doing great though, looks like new growth is happening, also a ton of sporophytes in that tin!


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Starting to get new growth from spore pods I collected and spread!


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Its slow but as you can see the moss is really taking off, the stuff on pure spaghnum is slower so mixing your own media is a good idea, what I used was a 50/50 ground tree fern/spaghnum mix with a little leaf litter (crushed by hand) some reptibark and a little activated charcoal, I mist it maybe once every 2 weeks, the cake tins really hold in moisture quite well but I take it out periodically to give it a look over and remist it ...only use distilled water


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Its growing in the spaghnum just really slow, my advice would be to mix what I mix and try using different mosses that places like Josh's frogs sells, the dried sheet moss, I have had huge success using this in my vivs, it usually takes time and patience but does come back to life and does start to spread! for no animal enclosures like those I have around the house I recommend either mixing mosses both wild and sheet and let nature take its course


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## BaysExotics (Dec 28, 2014)

I used a similar moss that i collected in winter off some trees, i dried the moss then soaked it and put it in my vivs.. why are you unable to use pine in the tanks? can this moss hurt the frogs?


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

BaysExotics said:


> I used a similar moss that i collected in winter off some trees, i died the moss then soaked it and put it in my vivs.. why are you unable to use pine in the tanks? can this moss hurt the frogs?



Well in this stuff Im more worried about foreign things like slugs and spiders, I soaked it in water for 24+ hours and froze/soaked it again, I had some pretty impressive creatures fall out of this stuff, beetles spiders, centipedes you name it, thats why its in cake tins and so far so good, no slugs, no bugs of any kind, I collected this all from pine forest, not sure if that is a huge issue with dart frogs but also not willing to risk it either. I did receive a shipment of assorted driftwood from NY about 2 weeks ago and Im not 100% sure but am fairly sure some of what I used was pine, I was using this in my semi aquatic Fire Belly tank and boiled it for 30 minutes in a stock pot I have for just this reason, let it sit and cool down naturally and poured the brown water out (tannins) than let it air dry for a good 24 hours before gluing it into the tank, my Fire Bellies don't seem to mind it if it is in fact pine, as a matter of fact its been about one week since I put them in there and the water is crystal clear and Ive already observed mating behavior regularly! Im just not sure on darts what pine would do, the moss seems to love it lol
As to your question though I don't think the frogs would be affected by the moss itself, I regularly visit the area I collected this moss from here in Wisconsin and have seen many tree frogs in that area so Im willing to bet pine isn't the overall factor, its most likely any pathogen carried along with it that is of concern minus the large bugs which is why I didn't use it

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## BaysExotics (Dec 28, 2014)

im do not think it would be a problem, i have 2 tanks setup with my own collected moss and driftwood, all of which was frozen then boiled and i have seen no other bugs other then springtails, i also have pine bark i was hesitant on using this at first as it had fungus growth, but the springs love the fungus and its great for mounting orchids.. it all looks good still, has been planted with this for two weeks. will soon add frogs.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

BaysExotics said:


> im do not think it would be a problem, i have 2 tanks setup with my own collected moss and driftwood, all of which was frozen then boiled and i have seen no other bugs other then springtails, i also have pine bark i was hesitant on using this at first as it had fungus growth, but the springs love the fungus and its great for mounting orchids.. it all looks good still, has been planted with this for two weeks. will soon add frogs.



Never worry about lichens and fungus, this always freaks people out but it always comes down to fungus is a natural decomposer that is actually beneficial to the environment, most molds are good molds, and mushrooms are likewise everywhere on the planet, I wouldn't worry too much about fungus of any kind unless its some funky red or blue/black stuff, the whites are pretty healthy and your right, springs love it!


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Lichens, if your lucky enough to have them grow in your tank would be a great thing, lichens are a symbiotic relationship between bacteria and plant, both use each other for beneficial growth, the bacteria gain photosynthesis and protection and the plant side actually gains added root growth and spread because of it! Im not a botanist but have had courses, my instructors always told me that lichens are a sign of a healthy environment, its nice to know because they grow all throughout my trees in the backyard lol they actually help clean the environment from my "small" understanding of lichens, Im sure someone can elaborate in more detail in this forum on the issue, better qualified than myself anyway 


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## BaysExotics (Dec 28, 2014)

if there a white colour grow near the moss and climb trees then i do, i added the pine a while ago that had some of these lichen i believe and it spread up a piece of drift wood also had a mushroom ledge grow!


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Without pics I or others could never tell if its lichens or molds, dont worry too much if its either, every one of my vivs goes through a mold period and I usually just spray the hell out of it and wash the stringy stuff into the media, let my springs eat it, does it look like a web? do you see small creatures crawling in that web area? the last thing you want is a spider mite problem! what are your readings? do you have a digital hydrometer/thermometer? This thread is more about simple wild collected mosses but other threads would direct you better towards infestations or other problems, if its a mold you will smack your head and say duh, I read this 40xs before (usually) but if its spider mites your in for a cleansing without frogs present, Im no leading expert here but if it is an issue and without seeing it all I can do is first say search out everything! The more you know the more you know what to look for, and second, if it seems to be something you have never seen and cant find in this forum post a question with a picture in the right area.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

If you can post a picture i could help identify a potential problem but if its a white milky slime like substance, its most likely a mold. Its nothing to worry about, but check your humidity, if a water source is available (and it always should be) cut back on your humidity a bit, ive never heard anyone specifically say this here, but think in a circle, what I mean by this is certain cultures in the philipino areas think in circles, what this really means is think in cycles, dry/wet periods, cold/warm periods, they coincide with eachother, and that is what makes nature nature! learn everything there is to know about your frogs! When you build a tank, always have these types of things in mind and how to adjust for it, the frogs are awesome! but honestly, the tank itself is of utmost importance! just think, if I have a tank that goes rotten what can I do? Build that rotten uh oh into your ability to build a tank, and once the rotten is figured out, than and only than can you put frogs in it. But rot is not mold rot is pathogens and stagnent water, spider mites would be considered a rot or serious problem. You will always learn, it takes trial and effort and sometimes failure but we all learn and we continue to grow through it.


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## BaysExotics (Dec 28, 2014)

Wusserton said:


> If you can post a picture i could help identify a potential problem but if its a white milky slime like substance, its most likely a mold. Its nothing to worry about, but check your humidity, if a water source is available (and it always should be) cut back on your humidity a bit, ive never heard anyone specifically say this here, but think in a circle, what I mean by this is certain cultures in the philipino areas think in circles, what this really means is think in cycles, dry/wet periods, cold/warm periods, they coincide with eachother, and that is what makes nature nature! learn everything there is to know about your frogs! When you build a tank, always have these types of things in mind and how to adjust for it, the frogs are awesome! but honestly, the tank itself is of utmost importance! just think, if I have a tank that goes rotten what can I do? Build that rotten uh oh into your ability to build a tank, and once the rotten is figured out, than and only than can you put frogs in it. But rot is not mold rot is pathogens and stagnent water, spider mites would be considered a rot or serious problem. You will always learn, it takes trial and effort and sometimes failure but we all learn and we continue to grow through it.



no worries about mold or spider mites, it is 100% lichen, no pictures but can take some later if youd like, i have two types, a white lichen and a green one, ive seen some parts go moldy and fall off the logs but the springs just eat it. im nervous about putting frogs in though and may just pull the moss and lichen out unless you guys think its 100% safe for the frogs, theres no other bugs and all moss and lichen was frozen and boiled


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

BaysExotics said:


> no worries about mold or spider mites, it is 100% lichen, no pictures but can take some later if youd like, i have two types, a white lichen and a green one, ive seen some parts go moldy and fall off the logs but the springs just eat it. im nervous about putting frogs in though and may just pull the moss and lichen out unless you guys think its 100% safe for the frogs, theres no other bugs and all moss and lichen was frozen and boiled



Mold is safe for frogs, vivs usually go through a mold period that can last a while sometimes, some people choose to wait a good 2-3 months before introducing frogs, it gives a chance for the plant to take off and the microfauna to do what they do, if your really worried about mold spray the hell out of it with distilled water, I wouldn't worry about the lichens either, I would say that its safe for frogs if thats your only issue


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## BaysExotics (Dec 28, 2014)

thats the only issue! if your thinking its safe then frogs will be added in about a month or so after i get cultures down pat


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