# Strong silicone smell



## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

I've started using ace hardware brand silicone and although it's been 24 hrs and the silicone has dried theres still a strong vinegar smell. I've never had this problem with any other brand. 

Will this harm my plants or animal if I put them in now or should I wait until the smell goes away? Thanks.


----------



## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

In my experience it always seems to take a while before it is totally gone. I never put an animal in a tank less than 30 days to help prevent any issues.


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

What kind of silicone is it? Straight Ace hardware brand? I have used Dap silicone for my other tanks. Its got a lot of different colors, (brown, off white, black, clear) and (don't kill me guys!) have even had to do a bit of emergency silicone job on my waterfall after I had added two anoles. It wasn't a sealed tank do there was more circulation in it but it still managed to be completely vinegar smell free in less than 24 hrs. I swear by the stuff for the silicone usage.


----------



## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

Yeah it says 100%silicone. It's ace hardware brand and I had a thread awhile back asking if it was safe to use lots of people said it worked great so I don't know.


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

What I would Do is take a fan and angle it do that the air gets pushed in from one side and out the other, do of its open in the front have the fan on the left or right side angled at like 45 degrees do it bounces off the back wall and out of the tank. That may help get the smell out faster. I did that with mine outside so it was in fresh air and it was fine in no time


----------



## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

I too run a fan after using it. Typically I find a fan that fits in the tank to expel fumes. 

I have never gotten my silicone to completely cure in 24 hours. Usually 3-4 days here in TN if you're lucky. I do a final check by sealing the tank for a bit, then opening and taking a big huff.

A number of members here have reported that if moisure is added prior to complete curing (ie tank set up) the stuff can take months to cure.

Save yourself potential problems and wait until it's completely gone.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I agree with Zoomie. 24 hours is not enough time, especially in a humid area. I have a tank sitting empty, under a ceiling fan, that's been 'curing' for 3 or 4 days now. I can still smell a slight odor so it still sits. Not worth it to rush things at the possible expense of your frogs.


----------



## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

Well DEFINITELY that  I'll try the fan thing thanks. I don't know why this brand is that much different than GE ive never had any smell issues with that brand but since lowes stopped carrying it I've has to switch to ace.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Bokfan1 said:


> Well DEFINITELY that  I'll try the fan thing thanks. I don't know why this brand is that much different than GE ive never had any smell issues with that brand but since lowes stopped carrying it I've has to switch to ace.


 
Usually when people can't smell the acetic acid that is offgassing it is because they used a silicone with a different formulation that offgasses ammonia instead of acetic acid. This can be a risk to the frogs in two different ways 
1) ammonia can be toxic to the frogs (particularly once the tank is closed up)
2) the catalyst used as an alternative curing path are organotins which can be toxic as well as endocrine disrupters to the frogs. 

The actual rate of curing of the silicone is affected by many things including how thick you have made it, how well air can contact it (for example behind a piece of cork is going to take much longer to cure than a bead on the glass), how much air circulation is happening, humidity levels,...... and so forth. 
It can take quite awhile to completely finish curing.. 

Ed


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

So...is there a way to understand which "type" a silicone is before using it???


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Judy S said:


> So...is there a way to understand which "type" a silicone is before using it???


If you open the tube and it smells like acetic acid (vinegar) then it doesn't use the organotins... 
Otherwise you have to look at how it is labled (for example GE I (no organotin) versus GE II). 

Ed


----------



## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

I imagine the humidity is atrocious in TN this time of year, which can have a pretty big effect on curing times


----------



## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

Check the expiration date on the silicone...if it has expired, break out the cleaning supplies and a 6-pack cause your in for a long night.


----------



## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> I imagine the humidity is atrocious in TN this time of year, which can have a pretty big effect on curing times


Lol it's atrocious year round but I've gotten used to it. 

This is a converted vertical tank for a creates gecko. I've had a small six inch fan running for a few hrs and the smell is already starting to fade. I wish lowes hadn't stopped carrying GE brown and black. I never had an issue with them.


----------



## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Judy S said:


> So...is there a way to understand which "type" a silicone is before using it???


GE I is recommended, GE II is the one Ed is talking about that can have issues to the frogs. Most of the black and colored silicone at the hardware store is GE II, fast drying. Often times you will have to order black aquarium grade silicone online.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

A quick product search online turns up what catalyst they use. Most people have smart phones these days.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

frogparty said:


> Most people have smart phones these days.


Thanks for that. Feeling old over here.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

So the catalyst would be mentioned in the ingredients?? I have read previous posts, especially Ed's, about using the GE silicone I as being the better silicone...but the curing time and the smell made me curious....


----------



## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

Alright so I've had the fan blowing through the Viv for 16 hrs straight. The smell is nowhere near as strong but there's still a faint odor. It's been about three days since I initially put it in. Do u think it's animal safe yet?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Judy S said:


> So the catalyst would be mentioned in the ingredients?? I have read previous posts, especially Ed's, about using the GE silicone I as being the better silicone...but the curing time and the smell made me curious....


Actually no, they don't have to mention it. It is considered part of the propriatary ingredients. Initially I had to back track to patent applications to determine the alternate curing method. 
If it smells like vinegar then it doesn't contain it.... 
Ed


----------



## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Bokfan1 said:


> Alright so I've had the fan blowing through the Viv for 16 hrs straight. The smell is nowhere near as strong but there's still a faint odor. It's been about three days since I initially put it in. Do u think it's animal safe yet?




I would just wait, man.


----------



## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

It took 5 days but it finally gone. I'm going to try to avoid ace hardware silicone in the future.


----------



## tahir tareen (Dec 17, 2009)

i cant tell if i'm being too paranoid about the smell of the silicone. Its been about ten days since i last applied any silicone to the background in my 55 gal. The area where used silicone to attach some rocks still smells to me like vinegar but nobody else i ask to take a smell thinks it does. 

I used GE 1 silicone. applied a thin layer of silicone to to the glass, then great stuff, then silicone and coco/sphagnum. i let everything cure at least 24 hours before adding on top. I have also had a fan/heater blowing on this tank the past week, sometimes turning the heater on when i think it starts stinking again. Its been humid lately ( haha i'm in WA) as well. This tank not for frogs but i am planning on putting some Lygodactylus williamsi in here.


----------



## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

tahir tareen said:


> nobody else i ask to take a smell thinks it does.
> .


Maybe majority should rule on this one


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you damaged your smell because of accidentally smelling it from a close distance... It couldn't have been only me who has done this. It made me want to cry and stop working on it. It burned my nostrils like they have never been burned before


----------



## tahir tareen (Dec 17, 2009)

Pacblu202 said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you damaged your smell because of accidentally smelling it from a close distance


?? I dont follow, then why am i the one smelling it still? 

I was sick last week and couldn't smell much, now that i am better i can smell it much more.


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I was making a joke that because of working with it you can now smell it. You know what it smells like so your looking for it where as others don't and can't detect it as easily. It's probably partially psychological IMO


----------



## tahir tareen (Dec 17, 2009)

Pacblu202 said:


> I was making a joke that because of working with it you can now smell it. You know what it smells like so your looking for it where as others don't and can't detect it as easily. It's probably partially psychological IMO


i think is a big part of it too. Also that its my expensive, rare animals that are going in there so i am bit more cautious about it.


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Completely agree hahaha


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

tahir tareen said:


> i cant tell if i'm being too paranoid about the smell of the silicone. Its been about ten days since i last applied any silicone to the background in my 55 gal. The area where used silicone to attach some rocks still smells to me like vinegar but nobody else i ask to take a smell thinks it does.
> 
> I used GE 1 silicone. applied a thin layer of silicone to to the glass, then great stuff, then silicone and coco/sphagnum. i let everything cure at least 24 hours before adding on top. I have also had a fan/heater blowing on this tank the past week, sometimes turning the heater on when i think it starts stinking again. Its been humid lately ( haha i'm in WA) as well. This tank not for frogs but i am planning on putting some Lygodactylus williamsi in here.


Close it up for several hours or overnight and then smell the tank. If you can still smell it, it isn't fully cured. 

Silicone that is excessively thick, buried under other layers of materials or in any other way that prevents easy access of air ciirculation is going to take much longer to cure. Excess moisture, low temperatures, lack of air circulation (closed up tank) also slow down curing. I've had it take 3-4 weeks to complete curing in a couple of applications where it was prevented from easy air circulation. 

Ed


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I generally wait a month before planting and am in no hurry to add anything to a new tank. We're not exactly using this per manufacturers recommendations. lol


----------



## Froggywv (Aug 9, 2010)

For fish I allow a week cure time. After a week there is usually no smell and it will no longer leach any ammonia into the water. The ONLY thing I use is GE Silicone 1. Its the only one recommended for fish, and if I can use it around fish, I can use it around frogs.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Froggywv said:


> For fish I allow a week cure time. After a week there is usually no smell and it will no longer leach any ammonia into the water. The ONLY thing I use is GE Silicone 1. Its the only one recommended for fish, and if I can use it around fish, I can use it around frogs.


If you use GE I, it doesn't leach ammonia. GE II off gasses ammonia since it uses a organotin catalyst.... GEI leaches acetic acid. The only way to be sure it has stopped offgassing (particularly if you've filled the tank with water would be to routinely test for ammonia until the biological filter gets established.... 

Ed


----------



## tahir tareen (Dec 17, 2009)

thanks all, it took about 2 weeks with a fan blowing but the smell is gone. this was my first time making a background entirely from greatstuff and silicone so I wasn't used to how smelly it can be. Ill get some pics up soon.


----------

