# Drainage and false bottom idea?



## Steph (Mar 24, 2015)

Hey everyone! I'm in the "planning" and "purchasing" phase of my *first* build. I'll be converting a 28 gallon (estimated) hexagon aquarium into a dart frog vivarium. 










As for my background, I'm familiar with the care and lifestyle of fish and reptiles - and now I'm taking the dive into amphibians with an added twist of microcontrollers, arduinos and raspberry pi's. It's my first build of this sort, so I know I have a lot to learn - and the more questions I can ask, then hopefully the fewer mistakes I can make.

Without going into too much detail about my build just yet - I have some questions about the "false bottoms".

Years ago, I had a reptile viv with LECA hydroton as the false bottom. I had great success with it -- but I'm digging for more information on two other products that I see as "false bottoms" - the egg crate method and Josh's Frogs false bottom.

Currently, I have intentions on using just the Mistking system. (No foggers, no drippers, no waterfalls, no streams, no ponds, no "crazy" newbie dreams.)
I'd be taking my tank to a glass shop to drill my tank. Then I'll install a drain bulkhead to remove any excess water that will build-up from all of the misting. 









I know that eggcrate makes for easy draining - however, I know (from personal experience + research) that having LECA or other substrate as a false bottom is beneficial to all the good bacteria.

With that in mind, I've been thinking about having 1 inch of egg crate, 1 inch of Josh's frogs false bottom/Hydroton, then follow through with the rest of the top layers. The eggcrate and the hydroton would be separated by another layer of screen. I created a mock-up of what I am trying to explain...










I have not yet drilled a drain hole into my tank - so I could be convinced otherwise on this idea.

Newbie questions:

- To drain or not to drain?
- Should I just pick and stick with one type of false bottom or is my idea Ok?
- Has anyone ever layered eggcrate + false bottom?
- And most importantly, does my idea seem viable for PDF health and well-being?


Thanks everyone - I look forward to sharing my build with everyone in the coming months!


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

Hello, all my Vivs have a bulkhead on the bottom. I understand that you are not doing any water features, which are not needed by the frogs. I do like and create waterfalls in all my Vivs. With that being said, I have a sump where the water is pumped back up, after about two weeks I remove excess water. In your case you can drill the hole on the side of the tank just below the substrate and let it drain into a empty container. I would suggest the smallest bulkhead possible (1/4) line. My preference with the bottom layer is feather lite rock.


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## Steph (Mar 24, 2015)

Coqui said:


> Hello, all my Vivs have a bulkhead on the bottom. I understand that you are not doing any water features, which are not needed by the frogs. I do like and create waterfalls in all my Vivs. With that being said, I have a sump where the water is pumped back up, after about two weeks I remove excess water. In your case you can drill the hole on the side of the tank just below the substrate and let it drain into a empty container. I would suggest the smallest bulkhead possible (1/4) line. My preference with the bottom layer is feather lite rock.


Neat! Just for curiosity's sake, Do you use a mister/fogger/dripper in addition to the waterfall?


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Your gonna need to have the egg crate higher than an inch because the hole for bulkhead shouldn't be drilled right along the edge of the glass or it will increase chances of cracking.

Also am unsure that the layer of spagnum is needed. I think ABAG mix already has some. The layer of hydroballs is also unnecessary since you'll have the eggcrate false bottom. I think the extra weight of the balls out weights the potential benefits of the aerobic bacteria. You'll have it in the soil and microfauna.


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

I do have a Mist King and a fogger/Humidifier hooked up to my tanks. I also recently purchased a Finnex 24/7 light fixture and I plan on changing all my lights to the Finnex. All my tanks are located in my Game/Home theater room. 
I enjoy creating rain storm with lightning and the sound of thunder. Mostly for my pleasure but the frogs do enjoy the rain. If your interested in the finnex light check out DendroDave thread on the lights. He has a great write up on it.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Having both eggcrate and hydroton seems unnecessary. If you're concerned about drainage with hydroton only, you could just put a little eggcrate or other screening type material around your bulkhead. And as someone mentioned above, there will be plenty of microbes in the substrate if you wanted to use eggcrate only. I think another difficulty you'd have trying to pull this off is the layers get thick pretty quickly, so your layer of hydroton would only be a couple balls deep (so to speak).

The Josh's Frogs substrate is just expanded glass aggregate AKA growstones. It's very lightweight recycled glass. I used that in mine and haven't had any issues. Some suggest rinsing and soaking it for a while as it can leach calcium carbonate or something like that, so I did that too.

I initially put in a small layer of sphagnum, as I had seen it suggested on Josh's Frogs or NE Herp website, but ended up taking it out as I did some research on here and people were saying it's overkill and it seemed to make the tank very swampy. I've been able to keep up the humidity without it. I especially don't think you will need it if you're using the mistking.

Your question about the frogs' well being - I think whichever false bottom method you choose, they should be fine. The purpose of the false bottom is just to keep the water from getting to the substrate, resulting in a big mud pie and much heartache. So just need to make it thick enough and easy for you to drain that that won't happen. The other layer that would make your frogs healthy and happy is the leaf litter, so you'll want to have a nice, thick layer of that, and sterilize the leaves first (can find instructions for that here or vendor sites - you just boil them then dry them out in the oven).

Good luck. I think the hexagonal tank is going to be cool and look forward to your progress.

Thane


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## Steph (Mar 24, 2015)

thane said:


> Having both eggcrate and hydroton seems unnecessary. If you're concerned about drainage with hydroton only, you could just put a little eggcrate or other screening type material around your bulkhead. And as someone mentioned above, there will be plenty of microbes in the substrate if you wanted to use eggcrate only. I think another difficulty you'd have trying to pull this off is the layers get thick pretty quickly, so your layer of hydroton would only be a couple balls deep (so to speak).
> 
> The Josh's Frogs substrate is just expanded glass aggregate AKA growstones. It's very lightweight recycled glass. I used that in mine and haven't had any issues. Some suggest rinsing and soaking it for a while as it can leach calcium carbonate or something like that, so I did that too.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much thane! I think I'm going to stick with just egg crate and the drain then.

You stated that you use the grow stones in your build - do you have a hole drilled for drainage or let the water "evaporate" through the layers?

Thanks again to everyone with your tips - and again, I look forward to sharing my build soon.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

To access the drainage layer, I have a small "pond" in the corner, which is dammed off by a piece of driftwood, which behind it has screen siliconed to the floor, then the growstones are behind that. So I can just suck water out of the tank through the corner pond (I use a shop vac but you could also use a clean siphon). 

Here's my build thread showing how I did the layers, and the corner pond. I tried to take a lot of detailed pictures, but I have only done one tank, so take that for what it's worth. 

However I've found so far the frogs never use the pond and all it does is fill up with drowned fruit flies and springtails, so my next build I'm just going to have all substrate with no pond. If you don't have a bulkhead, what people do is run a pipe down to access the drainage layer, which you can suck out with a turkey baster, or better yet, a plastic hand pump siphon (normally used to siphon gasoline). For my next build, I got a PVC pipe with a T-fitting on the end. I'll have the T-fitting down in the drainage layer, with screen over the ends, so it doesn't get gunk in it. Then the pipe will go up through the substrate and I've got a plastic cap so no frogs can get in.

I haven't done the build with the buried pipe yet, so don't have any pictures, but I've seen other people on here do it. The only reason I'm going with a pipe rather than drilling a bulkhead is I'm going to have this thing on a table in my kitchen, and I didn't want a bunch of parts sticking out. If you've got this on a rack or an aquarium stand where you can run the pipes down, it shouldn't be a big deal. I think that's what most people do for convenience, especially people with a lot of tank. So far I've had to suck the water out of mine every month or two, mainly to get the dead insects out.

You mentioned just letting the water evaporate through the layers. Another reason you have the drainage layer is you can put in more or less water to adjust the overall humidity of the tank (along with misting the plants more or less). I don't think you would just make a tank though with no way to access the drainage layers though. You need to have some way to get the water out. I have read on here, and made this mistake myself, that beginners like us tend to go overboard with the misting, so if that drainage layer fills up and you have no way to access it, you're going to be S.O.L. and have to run a pipe or drill a bulkhead after the fact, which would just be awful.

I think it's great you're taking this all into consideration beforehand rather than just throw the thing together. I tried to plan and read on here as best I could but definitely learned some things in the process. I think that's part of the reason people say this is an addicting hobby - I know my next build(s) will be even better!

Again, good luck with your build,
Thane


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