# Ants as feeders?



## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

Hey everyone. If I keep a large healthy ant colony. Could I feed the ants to darts (tincs) primarily. Keeping the same dusting routine. Just change from fruit flys to ants. It would keep the ant colony in check as far as numbers. Ants are around 4 to5 mm so plenty small enough for the frogs to eat. Just curious. It would be way less maintenance than fruit flys. In my opinion. 

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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

There are a few old threads you can read up on the subject. Seems like it should be fine but also dependent on the ant species.

If you're interested in keeping ants as a hobby, harvesting ants for some frog food is definitely an easy option. But I don't know if I would consider maintaining a large formicarium less hassle than breeding fruit flies.

I used to follow an ant channel on YT, and the guy set up a large naturalistic vivarium with a couple of diff ant species as well as animals that fed on the ants. Was pretty cool!


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## R_jay (Jul 17, 2017)

Sometimes when I have run out of flies or am between waiting for cultures to mature I’ve lured in ants using honey in a dish on the porch. Just enough for a feeding and the frogs seemed to love it. Granted I keep mainly just ranitomeyas. I’ve also read many of the threads and didn’t see any issues. 


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Shouldn't be a problem, but nothing like an experiment to make sure. You must have a huge colony to support your frogs? What type of Ants? 



I have 3 colonies but they are in their early stages and far from being able to feed from. Not why I started my colonies but might be a great side benefit as they are def less hassle then fruit flies.



I've seen threads where people are against it but can't remember what their reasoning was.


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## R_jay (Jul 17, 2017)

The ones I saw of ppl advising against it was that you had to make sure you weren’t inundating your enclosures with ants that could overwhelm the frogs or species of ants that are hostile. Also prepare your home against infestation if long term ants are used


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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

cam1941 said:


> Shouldn't be a problem, but nothing like an experiment to make sure. You must have a huge colony to support your frogs? What type of Ants?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm just speaking hypothetically. I would have to build up a colony which you first hand know takes time. I know that darts thrive on ants in there natural habitat. I do keep terrariums. So adding a starter colony of ants wouldn't be a big deal (thinking 20 gallon long for the ants). You are correct that It would have to be a very established colony. Otherwise eventually the number will slowly dwindle to nothing. I have researched for years on ants and darts just havnt had the space. It just seemed like a win win. I get to keep ants in a reasonably good sized viv with out having to go to big. So I can enjoy them. And I can maintain there numbers by simply feeding the to the darts. I am well aware that this would not be an overnight thing. It may take 3 to 5 years from starting the ants colony. To getting darts. But I very much enjoy keeping terrariums. So it would not feel like a chore. The whole venture (if that's the right word lol ) would be exciting to me. Again this is just hypothetical. I just wasnt sure what other froggers views were. Sorry this is so long. 

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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

frogwatcher said:


> I'm just speaking hypothetically. I would have to build up a colony which you first hand know takes time. I know that darts thrive on ants in there natural habitat. I do keep terrariums. So adding a starter colony of ants wouldn't be a big deal (thinking 20 gallon long for the ants). You are correct that It would have to be a very established colony. Otherwise eventually the number will slowly dwindle to nothing. I have researched for years on ants and darts just havnt had the space. It just seemed like a win win. I get to keep ants in a reasonably good sized viv with out having to go to big. So I can enjoy them. And I can maintain there numbers by simply feeding the to the darts. I am well aware that this would not be an overnight thing. It may take 3 to 5 years from starting the ants colony. To getting darts. But I very much enjoy keeping terrariums. So it would not feel like a chore. The whole venture (if that's the right word lol ) would be exciting to me. Again this is just hypothetical. I just wasnt sure what other froggers views were. Sorry this is so long.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I've also been reading up on ant keeping, been close to starting a colony a few times. I think once the colony is well established, having some predation on it could be a good way of keeping it in check. 

Are you thinking about any ants in particular?


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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

Kalle said:


> I've also been reading up on ant keeping, been close to starting a colony a few times. I think once the colony is well established, having some predation on it could be a good way of keeping it in check.
> 
> Are you thinking about any ants in particular?


When I commit to the idea. I first have to find out what in my area is legal to keep. Then go from there. As well as pets they would have a job to do. Feeding my frogs. So I would have to consider size, aggression, ect. I could always try to catch my own colony with a queen. Easy enough I have ant colony's all over my back yard. I just have to find a queen and collect as many workers as I can and see how it goes. Or contact the GAN project and buy a colony available to me. 

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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

No worries… I would def not suggest it for the sole purpose of setting up a feeder colony. The whole endeavor takes a lot of patience and wouldn’t be worthwhile unless you had the same passion for keeping the ants as you do for the frogs but it sounds like you know what your getting yourself into. 

While your starting your ant colony you could maintain it with the fruit flies that you feed your frogs with. This is what i do.

Theres actually a thread for a tank that had a ghost ant colony in with the frog. They were trying to build a self sustaining tank, really interesting thread. 

You should def keep us updated with your progress if you decide to go for it…

Good luck.







frogwatcher said:


> I'm just speaking hypothetically. I would have to build up a colony which you first hand know takes time. I know that darts thrive on ants in there natural habitat. I do keep terrariums. So adding a starter colony of ants wouldn't be a big deal (thinking 20 gallon long for the ants). You are correct that It would have to be a very established colony. Otherwise eventually the number will slowly dwindle to nothing. I have researched for years on ants and darts just havnt had the space. It just seemed like a win win. I get to keep ants in a reasonably good sized viv with out having to go to big. So I can enjoy them. And I can maintain there numbers by simply feeding the to the darts. I am well aware that this would not be an overnight thing. It may take 3 to 5 years from starting the ants colony. To getting darts. But I very much enjoy keeping terrariums. So it would not feel like a chore. The whole venture (if that's the right word lol ) would be exciting to me. Again this is just hypothetical. I just wasnt sure what other froggers views were. Sorry this is so long.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

A cool idea would be to connect the frog viv with something like an air line tube to the formicarium and use the viv as an arena for the ants to forage in.


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

This is the thread I mentioned plus another one you might find interesting...



https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/3995-new-set-up.html


https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/science-conservation/316786-massive-ant-terrarium.html


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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

cam1941 said:


> This is the thread I mentioned plus another one you might find interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks it will take me some time to get thru the one. I do follow ants Canada. He has great content. And incredible ideas. I am an active commenter on his channel. 

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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

Kalle said:


> A cool idea would be to connect the frog viv with something like an air line tube to the formicarium and use the viv as an arena for the ants to forage in.


My only concern. Is the ants overrunning the frog viv and killing it. (Once the colony gets big enough). Or them moving the whole colony into the frog viv. If I could control the number of ants in. That might be an idea. But then there is the issue of not being able to dust them. I guess manual insertion (hahaha) is the only way I can think of to make sure my frogs stay healthy. 

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## amgini (Jun 10, 2011)

Just be careful with ants. I have had house ants invaded my tanks and killed my frogs before, even big frogs like leucs.


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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

amgini said:


> Just be careful with ants. I have had house ants invaded my tanks and killed my frogs before, even big frogs like leucs.


Yes that is a concern. If done right the ants tank should be escape proof for them. Using proven methods for containing them. Feeding would only be a handful at a time, to limit any issue with them and the frogs. As far as any ants outside of my control is something I will concider now that you bring it up. The tank being invaded is something I hadn't thought about. 

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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

What's funny is convincing my wife that this is a good idea is going to be the most challenging part Of this whole thing. It was hard enough talking her into my fish. Lol 

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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

amgini said:


> Just be careful with ants. I have had house ants invaded my tanks and killed my frogs before, even big frogs like leucs.


I forgot to mention in my response. Harm to my frogs by the ants is one reason I have to take care in choosing the ants that I would keep. I am not 100% sure of my options. But once I narrow them down I will have to see which of them would cause the least possible threat to my frogs. So no cow killer ants, fire ants, ect..

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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

Oh the irony. I start this thread about keeping ants for frogs. I go outside to tell my daughter its dinner time. And a queen ant lands on my arm. Instinctively I swat at it. As my eyes glance down to see what just landed on me I see what it is but it's to late my eyes were to slow for my brain I couldn't stop my hand from swating it away. As I watch it fly away all I can think is "well $hit" . Talk about bad luck.

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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

frogwatcher said:


> Oh the irony. I start this thread about keeping ants for frogs. I go outside to tell my daughter its dinner time. And a queen ant lands on my arm. Instinctively I swat at it. As my eyes glance down to see what just landed on me I see what it is but it's to late my eyes were to slow for my brain I couldn't stop my hand from swating it away. As I watch it fly away all I can think is "well $hit" . Talk about bad luck.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


If a swarmer landed on your arm, there are more in the vicinity...many more.


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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

frogwatcher said:


> I forgot to mention in my response. Harm to my frogs by the ants is one reason I have to take care in choosing the ants that I would keep. I am not 100% sure of my options. But once I narrow them down I will have to see which of them would cause the least possible threat to my frogs. So no cow killer ants, fire ants, ect..
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk




I'm thinking harvester ant could be an option. They only eat seeds and any dead insects they find. So no hunting and killing.


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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

Kalle said:


> I'm thinking harvester ant could be an option. They only eat seeds and any dead insects they find. So no hunting and killing.


That would be perfect. Digging alittle deeper into ant keeping. I see that it is illegal to purchase ants out side of the state in which you live. So it looks like finding my own queen and starting a colony may be my only option. So a guess patients is going to be key in this. I think you can purchase harvester ants for Like kids ant farms. But only workers no queens. 

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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

frogwatcher said:


> That would be perfect. Digging alittle deeper into ant keeping. I see that it is illegal to purchase ants out side of the state in which you live. So it looks like finding my own queen and starting a colony may be my only option. So a guess patients is going to be key in this. I think you can purchase harvester ants for Like kids ant farms. But only workers no queens.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Does that mean illegal to buy ants not native to your state or that they just can't cross the border and it's ok to buy captive bread non native species from within the state? 

I'm in Europe and fortunately we don't have that problem. There's a big online ant shop in Germany with loads of diff species and starting colonies that ship within the EU. 

Looking just at the harvester ant there doesn't seem to be any species native to Virginia (if that's where you are). 

Finding a new solitary queen is one option but another is to dig up an existing colony. Would come with loads of workers, eggs and larvae as well as the queen. I'm not talking about a large super colony but just something smaller but established. Starting with just one queen usually means a lot of time until it's properly up and running. Still super interesting though!


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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

Kalle said:


> Does that mean illegal to buy ants not native to your state or that they just can't cross the border and it's ok to buy captive bread non native species from within the state?
> 
> I'm in Europe and fortunately we don't have that problem. There's a big online ant shop in Germany with loads of diff species and starting colonies that ship within the EU.
> 
> ...


Yes it is illegal to buy non native ants. Or transport cross state lines. From looking at the GAN project sellers list. I have one person in my area who is a seller of ants local to me. But currently there are none available. I may contact them and see if they are still active in the hobby.

Yes I live in Virginia. As you suggested I have several spots by my shed. That have huge colony's of ants if I'm careful uncovering them. I can collect many workers and queen. I just have to keep my eyes peeled for the queen. 

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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

I had tapinoma sessile start a satellite nest in the background of a vivarium and eventually they overpowered the frog.

I currently have several lasius americanus queens with niantics, a multiqueen tapinoma colony, a multiqueen Solenopsis molesta colony with niantics, and a camponotus pennsylvanicus colony that is starting to get big. Newly started ant colonies stall for the first year while the queen is getting her first workers (niantics) and then preparing for the first winter. Then they start ramping up in the second year. 

Antscanada is a great starting point for learning about ants. I recommend his oldest videos if you want to learn though. Lately his YouTube celebrity status and the monetization of his videos has affected the way he approaches content creation. 

Back on topic ants can be raised very easily as feeders. Due to pest laws you can only keep queens caught in your state. It is illegal to transfer queen ants across state lines even if the species is native in both states. Nuptial flights usually occur the day after a thunderstorm if temperatures have been above 60 degrees Fahrenheit and queens are very easy to find once you have seen enough of them. The ants can be fed fruit flies, honey, and water. It is best to use as small a formicarium as you can for the colony or you will have mold issues as workers pile trash in the extra space. To start out you will need test tubes, water, and cotton balls. I wouldn't attempt to feed aggressive or large species to frogs though.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Lasius with niantics, Solenopsis queens with niantics, the Camponotus queen with workers, and the camponotus queen being fed by a worker. Once the lasius and solenopsis colonies get big enough I might try offering future workers to future frogs. Camponotus workers are way too big for almost all darts and I like them too much.

The Camponotus colony is in one of these: https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/150m..._expid=2641a2cd-8a23-46ae-9ac7-592ca73fb9ff-6


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