# New dart frog bussiness



## yellow dart frog man (Mar 8, 2011)

Hey everyone, me and my friend trevor were thinking about making a dart frog and supplies bussiness. We already done research on breeding darts.
Heres what we might sell:

Frogs- azureus, Auratus 'acorn hill', and milk frogs.



Supplies- fruit flys, coco hut, bromilads, ferns, background building kit, Moss, leaves, hydroton, vivarium soil, ghost wood, cork bark, petri dishs, and more.


Is this a good idea or not?


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

yellow dart frog man said:


> Hey everyone, me and my friend trevor were thinking about making a dart frog and supplies bussiness. We already done research on breeding darts.
> Heres what we might sell:
> 
> Frogs- azureus, Auratus 'acorn hill', and milk frogs.
> ...


In my experience it's a great hobby and a lousy business.


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## FRISCHFROGS (Jan 15, 2012)

I hate to say it but you missed the "dart wagon" a while ago.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Sorry, but I would so no. There are already a few very good, well established businesses in the hobby. I think you would have a very difficult time competeing on selection and price.


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

If you do please sell rare/cool plants, so hard to find a place that sells good ones.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

yellow dart frog man said:


> Hey everyone, me and my friend trevor were thinking about making a dart frog and supplies bussiness. We already done research on breeding darts.
> Heres what we might sell:
> 
> Frogs- azureus, Auratus 'acorn hill', and milk frogs.
> ...


Maybe you should spell "business" right before you start one.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I don't know about milk frogs, but you won't make much money on azureus or "ancon" hill auratus.


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## Epikmuffin (May 9, 2012)

go for it. there are always buyers


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

I wouldn't plan on it being a "business" but, you could definitely sell things if you develop a good reputation and produce quality products. But if you made more than $1,000 dollars a year selling azureus, auratus, and supplies I'd be surprised, and impressed.

Overall, try it out...but don't expect much return.

Good Luck!

PS...If you can figure out a way to sell and ship healthy and inexpensive "ready to feed" fruit fly cultures ...you'd definitely get some business.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

You maybe, possibly, sometimes, hopefully, might make enough money to pay for your hobby. Are you gonna make enough to make a living, nope, not even close. It would take you way more time and money to build a business than you would ever get out of it. People that get into dart frogs thinking they are going to turn it into a business and make money are foolish or naive or sometimes both. Enjoy your hobby, breed some frogs, establish a good reputation, pass your knowledge onto others, that's about the most you can hope for.


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

mordoria said:


> Maybe you should spell "business" right before you start one.


I hate to say it, but I thought the same thing. A post with several misspelled words and grammar errors is a turn off if you want my money.

I wouldn't worry about running a business if you haven't had dart frogs before. I would first learn to culture flies and breed frogs before I try to sell them. It's not difficult to breed most dart frogs, but you need to learn to do that first before you try to think about selling them.

And I'll have to disagree with some about selling. If you go with popular frogs like azureus and leucs, you can always find a buyer.


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

you might want to offer a larger selection of frogs. as for ghostwood, im in the market for some ghost wood or some other type of wood. what do you have?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

More power to you but I can't count the number of 3 month old hobby related businesses that emerge and quickly disappear ... to never be heard of again.

The goal with any business is two fold - either identify a niche that isn't currently met by the hobby OR do what Josh's Frogs did and create an efficient, borg like machine when it comes to getting generic supplies and common plants, frogs. 

then the goal is getting your niche business to expand to a greater audience... Josh with geckos, Black Jungle with birds and salt water fish...

Start small and excel at something... I have a leaf litter supplier that is the best hands down. Maybe he will move into substrate, etc. 

I think the biggest issue folks face in establishing a dart frog related business is that they try to offer everything at once (often things that everyone else is offering) instead of starting small and becoming the go to person for something essential to the hobby, or better yet, becoming the go to person for something that the hobby doesn't yet realize is essential, ie. shippable automated tadpole systems... high grade tadpole food....vivarium fans...LED units...clay substrate...moss...etc


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## yellow dart frog man (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks for the tips everyone!!


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

I will also disagree with some people who say you can't make money. I only breed a few types of frogs, but selling the froglets more than covers what I spend. In fact, it's my ONLY hobby that pays for itself!

Now, if you want to make a comfortable living JUST selling darts, that would be rather difficult, and time consuming.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Stemcell pretty much nailed it. There are ways you could start a successful business, finding the niche. Its going to be very hard to find that niche though if you don't have any experience in the hobby. Its takes a creative and inventive mind to be successful. My advice is don't try to reinvent the wheel.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

FRISCHFROGS said:


> I hate to say it but you missed the "dart wagon" a while ago.



Dart wagon? Can you explain this.



Also, I agree with the statement made about selling common frogs. My first time around in the hobby I bred a few different types of frogs. I no doubt made the most money with my Panamanian green and black auratus. And let's just say I did not sell them for a high price tag either. These frogs paid for themselves many times. Others I broke even and others I lost out as far as money. But good thing it was my hobby and not a business.


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

If I was you, I would start out small. Like other members have stated, you will not make enough money to support yourself, however you will make enough to support your hobby. But like Stemcellular said, just find a niche market. Go to your local herp show and walk around see what everyone has, see what is selling and ask people there what they would want to buy or at least see at the show. Once you are comfortable with what "should" sell, get a table at that show and get your name and face out there. You may be there trying to sell frogs and supplies but you are also selling yourself and your knowledge. Even if you don't make any money at all at the shows at first, you at least got your face out there, but most importantly you educated future customers and frog owners about proper husbandry of PDF's. With all of this said, it is your decision to do what you want to do, we are just here for moral support, and possibly a discount on future supplies!!


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## froggirl (Jul 1, 2012)

If I never wanted to open a Bussiness it would be for the love of it like a hobby..what you put into it is what you get out of it..


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## rgwheels (Feb 19, 2008)

I think something to add to this discussion is the the unreliable nature of breeding. Buying pairs of dart frogs doesn't guarantee breeding and froglets, even if you do everything right. You could put time and effort into raising a bunch of tads and have your frogs producing SLS tads and many other scenarios. Not to mention, the stress incurred upon frogs that are producing past their safe breeding capacity. 

The point that I learned early on is to be happy with the slow and steady. Add to your collection slowly as your hobby pays for itself. Likely, 5 or so years down the line, you will have a pretty nice collection that you will make some nice side income from. [Or if you are sick like some of us, it will feed your addiction!] 

Just some thoughts to add...


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## daryl34 (Feb 24, 2007)

Heres what I say , you have a dream go for it. Make it, or fail, take your chances. Either way don't let others influence you. Heres and example , azureus, wholesalers love them, get three pairs and start that way. Will you get rich, nope. Will you enjoy your hobby that much more. Yep. 

If you don't try you already failed.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

daryl34 said:


> Either way don't let others influence you.


As a business owner for more than 20 years, I have to disagree with this statement. The vast majority of successful business will research what they are considering doing before plunging in blindly. The vast majority of successful business endeavors are heavily influenced by their successful peers.
Asking others about their experiences can only be a good thing.
So yes, let others influence you, just don't let them make your decision for you. Seek out their council, digest what they are saying, and make your own, informed choice about what you want to do.

When I pushed my ego aside and finally asked for help with taxes, etc, my dad (an accountant), reformatted my business from a sole proprietorship, to an S-Corp, I saved $4000 a year in taxes!! 

Asking questions about a business is crucial to success.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Its hard. 
Its definitely not the best time to get into it with the current economic climate but dart frogs are becoming an increasing popular herp with the advancements of the hobby's knowledge as well as large pet supply companies actually making products (to a certain extent) for amphibians.

I have been steadily working on my dart frog business since late 2008 and I still haven't launched a website or purchased a sponsership here as I haven't felt it was time yet....it takes a LOT of work, planning, and business knowhow. Among many many other tiny details I learn every day.
I could be mass breeding certain species or flipping massive amounts of frogs to make a quick buck but I'm still trying to learn what my business will stand for in this hobby and to myself personally.
It can be fun, rewarding, and lucrative to a certain point as well as frustrating, expensive, and heart breaking.

I might not make six figures but I'm doing what I love and my wife fully supports my decision to make a living this way.

I think one of the key factors to these businesses failing one after the other is greed. Underhanded practices as well as just not knowing what it takes. It seems like so many people get into the hobby and after one of their frogs breed for the first time they buy a website domain and they are in business.

I have been keeping dart frogs and other amphibians since 1994 and I'm still learning everyday and have so much more to learn.
I often spend more time giving advice to new people in the hobby than making a sale.
Even helping people in relation to selling frogs or market trends that may be direct competition for myself.

Good luck to anybody wanting to start a PDF business.


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## daryl34 (Feb 24, 2007)

This young man is thinking about three species to make some exrtra cash. Not quiting any other job to start his own stand alone business. This is apparantly a couple young guys trying to make some extra bucks. 
Kid if you want to go for it, do it. I never thought you were planning on getting your LLC for three pairs. 
Try for one year see where it goes, then, re evaluate and see if it was worth it. Right now you really have nothing more invested than most people on the board.
Go slow, and if you want to take a shot, do it.
The optimist.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

back in the 80s when i was researching what i was going to do to make a living i came upon an interesting fact. the lowest failure rate in business start ups was dentistry. the highest failure rate in small business was pet stores. it may be nice to follow a dream but alot of other people want to do the same thing. luckily my dream was to become a dentist.


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## yellow dart frog man (Mar 8, 2011)

Thanks for all your knowledge, everyone. Ill start with the frogs and normal supplies(Ex.coco huts) and improve slowly.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

If you are looking to support a hobby, then breeding frogs can usually pay for itself (on the whole). If you are looking for a business, then supplies are the way to go. It's been mentioned, but find a niche. Be the cocohut guy or the brom guy or the bug guy, or better yet, take Stemcellulars advice and look into something the hobby needs and does not have.

Whatever you decide keep in mind that in this community your customer service is going to make or break you. There are already suppliers for most of what we use that have EXCELLENT records of customer service...and since there have also been some real stinkers that we've dealt with, we stay pretty dedicated to the good ones. So already the only reason anyone would switch over is probably going to be lower price, or closer location. If you don't completely understand the value of good customer service, then people in the hobby are vocal and will share that info on forums like this one and you will be done. 

I would love to have another quality suppler to choose from if you are him, but we don't need any more stinkers.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

The short answer is not no, but HECK NO ! I can only base my reasoning on my perspective as a consumer. Forgive me for sounding caustic, but the business world is unforgiving. I assure you that I will move on to greener, supportive pastures once I get done with the ugly stuff.

Breaking in to this business would be tough at best. Sure you could sell a few frogs here and there, but nowhere close to generating enough income to call it a business. If this industry was grossly profitable. we would have far more commercial vendors.

Let my address the most important angle of a business. Your potential customer base.

How do intend to approach the market? Who do you intend to market to? Do you have a sound grasp of YOUR market.

To simplify things, you have three types of consumers:

1) Quality consumers

I fit in to this category as do many others here. I am extremely picky about who I do business with. I do my homework and review people's reputations. While I may ask if there is any wiggle room, I never argue about price, especially with regard to frogs themselves. High quality growout care again along with reputation wins my checkbook every single time. I NEVER EVER shop by price. Did I mention NEVER EVER ?

That said, this board is frequented by some of the best breeders in the nation, and likely the world. Depth of quality is astounding. All of these folks have earned respect through a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. Years of it in most cases.

Trying to break in to this segment of the market and capture these consumers is virtually impossible. You can't even throw enough money at this segment to gain a foothold. There is only one way. See blood, sweat and tears comment above.

2) Discount Consumers

This is probably the opposite end of the spectrum. These folks purchase based solely on price. They are far less concerned about quality frog rearing care or provinance. They just want their dollars to go as far as possible, often at the expense of the seller. 

As a casual seller, I stay as far away from these people as I can. I elect not to waste time and energy on trying to appease these folks. It is fraught with misunderstandings, most likely at the expense of the seller's reputation.

To be clear, I am not besmirching those that have to make every penny count in this expensive hobby. I too have operated hobbies on shoestring budgets. Still, each transaction is different. High maintenance and low profit.

This group is easy to break in to if you are patient and prepared to lose money with the hope of developing long term business relationships with people. You will also spend a tremendous amount of time managing consumer perpective and educating new froggers.

3) Location Consumers

This group encompasses all consumers. I think I can speak for many of us in the hobby that we would prefer to purchase locally and to have choices. We can avoid shipping, develop relationships and friendships, and most importantly, get a look at breeding set ups and quality of care. 

The only way to have a shot at being successful in this segment is to live in a huge market. Massive time constraints on your personal time as there are lots of lookie loos that may or may not have significant personal income and may or may not be serious buyers.

Wholesale Consumers

There are a number of businesses that spend so much time on the retail side of selling frogs that they no longer have time to breed themselves. They seek out successful breeders and buy up large stocks. There are some great wholesale purchasers out there and lots of walking nightmares. 

In order to capture any of this market, you literally have to wait to be approached or physically know someone willing to make an introduction. The great wholesalers again have a tremendous number of incredible breeders to deal with. They will rarely move outside of their regular group unless they have a high demand specific need to fill. And those folks fortunate enough to have developed relationships with the wholesalers almost never whiper names. The wholesalers are essentially ghosts.

Finally, these folks buy cheap. Very cheap. Unfortunately I can't give hard numbers as it would betray the confidence of a number of friends that trusted me enough to make introductions and lay out pricing, etc. 

Note that I skipped all of the critical stuff like the tax impications of running a sole prop versus LLC versus Sub S corp. No one in their right mind would open a normal corp as you are taxed twice. Then there's the whole hot vs not vs hot again to deal with.

Going through the entire process of creating a full and complete business plan worthy of being presented to potential investors would force you to look at everything. 

Now that the icky stuff is out of the way, let's talk about the potential path to making a few bucks.

CONT...............


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## dendrobateslover (Aug 18, 2010)

I think it's a GREAT idea if you're doing it for the right reasons. If you're in it for the idea of getting big wads of cash for your froglets, then you are out of luck. However, if you are doing it out of a genuine love for the hobby and to learn the principles of running. 'business,' you're doing the right thing. Just remember not to overwhelm yourself. Start out with one group or even one pair and wait until you have egg, tad, and froglet care down before you try to do a lot of expansion. While dart frogs will not comprise a massive part of my future herp career, doing it 'business style' (by that I mean having a name other than your real name, and having more than one or two groups of frogs) is teaching me responsibility in that I have to make sure I keep track of all my darts and that I give proper care to eggs and tadpoles of multiple separate species. It also will help you build a sense of community-by doing business with other froggers on here and elsewhere you will learn what works and what doesn't-helping you build that sense for other applications. If you can run a frog business successfully (ie having a good reputation amongst the people who have bought from you, and knowing they would recommend your services to others), most things you learn will help you in the long run. Just my $0.02.

Sorry for such a long reply-I get very in-depth with a lot of stuff


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## froggirl (Jul 1, 2012)

I love too read all the very good info .


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

If you could recreate a business like First Class Aquatics did-- which everyone sorely misses-- you would become very popular...

That requires you to build acrylic vivariums.

I still have an FCA tank that I will never part with!


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Rain_Frog said:


> If you could recreate a business like First Class Aquatics did-- which everyone sorely misses-- you would become very popular...
> 
> That requires you to build acrylic vivariums.
> 
> I still have an FCA tank that I will never part with!


I just bought 2 of there 16" cubes locally.
So stoked! There vert conversion doors look sweet. Wish i had the money for the machines to cut the acrylic!


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## yellow dart frog man (Mar 8, 2011)

Thats a good idea to make acrylic terrariums!!


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## froggirl (Jul 1, 2012)

I thought they still made them??? I have one..But i got it as a gift from my mother for my 24 birthday .


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

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Plexiglass - Buy PLEXIGLASS SHEET Online Store


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