# exanding foam on glass or egg crate?



## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

hello, for a background would i need to add egg crate in the background for grip so the foam wont slide off later on? or is adding expanding foam directly to glass perfectly fine? this is going to be a heavily planted vivarium and just wanted to hear any opinions


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## Bighurt (Jun 18, 2011)

Expanding foam will stick to glass.

The trick is to make the first layer as small a bead as possible. In my experience rows of 1/4" beads allows the best contact to glass. Often when you go full flow the expanding foam pulls away from the glass while curing. 

You will always get some foam pulling away, but with a thin layer first it's easy to build on with subsequent layers.

I do the same thing when adding foam to silicone.

Additionally I would let the foam cure a full 24 hrs before carving or adding a second layer and make sure the glass is clean! I use some solvent before foaming to ensure there are no oils present.


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

I haven't used the egg crate onto glass then GS yet. You'll want to silicone wherever you apply GS on your glass. I've heard it'll eventually peel away if not. 


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

What I do is I glue pieces of cork bark/driftwood to the back pane before applying the foam, that way the foam has more to grab on to.
I never bothered with covering the hole back with silicone but I'll put a few beads of silicone here and there for some extra grab.
So far I never had a background pull off.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

Eggcrate then foam is more for if you want a removable custom background. It gives you a solid back so you can make it outside the viv. 
I do like Sammie, silicone some wood in place then place a few tracks of silicone then spray the foam on. Go slow and do it in several layers if you intend to carve it later.


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Thank you everybody for the great answers! I will try the beads of silicone! And yes I'll be adding wood to wall as well, hopefully that gives a good grip and lasts longer


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Btw ... Where can I huy cheap black silicone??? Is any cheap brand OK? Does it have to be waterproof? I went to an aquarium store and bought a 3 OZ black silicone for $12!!! That's barely going to fill up the corner!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I have had great luck with this stuff (brown and black) and it is free of organotins. Really easy to work with, too. Also, if you are trying to adhere wood to the back glass as some in this thread have suggested (and I agree), clear is just fine. GE Silicone I is safe. You won't see much of it, if any, if you are gluing to the back wall.


CRL 33S Bronze Silicone Sealant 33SBRZ | PKsupplies.com

CRL 33S Black Silicone Sealant 33SBL | PKsupplies.com


Mark


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

OK so first I glue with silicone any driftwood I would like right? Let it cure 24 hours and then next day I add beads of silicone around the back of the tank and then spray foam how I want it to be...let it dry... And then cover the whole foam background with black silicone and add cocofibers... Is this right? This is my first vivarium I'm making out of foam and silicone


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

And that cheap!! The silicone I bought was the size of my hand! I'll check Lowes or home depot and see if they have that... If not I'll order online


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## gope (Jun 26, 2014)

I just bought GE silicone1, bronze and black, at my local TrueValue Hardware. You can order it online and ship to the store for free. Lowe's had it in clear only.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

darts707 said:


> And that cheap!! The silicone I bought was the size of my hand! I'll check Lowes or home depot and see if they have that... If not I'll order online


Both have it. Its a couple dollars more but no shipping.


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Ok I'll post a new thread of my construction and how I'm building


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

So any silicone is fine right?


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

The True Value option is good. I have heard you can get brown and black Silicone I from them. Ace Hardware also has their own brand that I have used quite a bit, but it's not cheap ($7.50 or so a tube). Be careful with Lowe's and Home Depot for colored silicone. I have never seen black or brown Silicone I at either place but they both carry black and brown Silicone II. Silicone II has organotins in it so I would avoid those.

Mark


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

I'll visit ACE hardware store as well then! So their brand is fine then right? So anything containing organotins is a nono right?


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Is this one good?
Says. Silicone II 10.1-oz. Black


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

And then there's this one(clear) that don't have black! GE Adhesives & Fillers All Purpose Silicone I


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Silicone II has organotins. I won't use that for any of my tanks, but some other folks use it. There are other options than what is available at your local store. If it was me, I would slow my roll enough to order safe silicone online, if you can't find it locally. Here is another thread where Silicone II is discussed.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/99418-black-brown-silicone.html

Mark


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

What do you guys think of using clear silicone for background? Like rubbing it all over and adding coco fibers? Or is black better?


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## BrainBug (Aug 25, 2010)

Sammie said:


> What I do is I glue pieces of cork bark/driftwood to the back pane before applying the foam, that way the foam has more to grab on to.
> I never bothered with covering the hole back with silicone but I'll put a few beads of silicone here and there for some extra grab.
> So far I never had a background pull off.


I use black silicone to cover the entire background and about 1" up or so on each side. I do it mostly for aesthetics now but I used to thing it would help the foam stick better and prevent it from peeling off the sides after it cures. In that regard I haven't noticed any difference, I still go in a day or two later and fill the side gaps but I do think it is a much cleaner look if the back or sides are visible.

Also, I try to make the foaming the final step in that I will cover the entire back surface with the black pond and waterfall foam as quickly as I can and then place small river rocks, cork bark, mopani wood, etc into the foam and then throw on a thick layer of bone dry coco coir or peat over everything. I come back and check it every 15 minutes for the first hour to make sure expanding foam is still covered in all areas but so far this technique has worked very well for me.


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Ok.. Well thanks everyone for the great help! Can't find and GE black silinone1 only clear! IMA have to go visit the store myself.. -_-


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Found out Lowes nor home depot sell silicone1 in black.... In the other hand Ace hardware store has this one... Dap 10.1oz Silicone Sealant in Bronze, is this one good? Says 100% silicone/rubber?? Only one they sell
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this is the only colored one I can find and says rubber/silicone. Safe?


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

I used the DAP brand once and it took about 3 times as long to cure. Not sure if it was a bad batch but I haven't bought it again.


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

But it is safe right? I can wait a few days for cure


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I don't know. Maybe someone else has done the research on that product. If no one says that they know it is safe for frogs, I would go with something you know is safe. 

I think clear would not look good as a background, no matter what you mix in it (other than pigments), it is still going to look like one of those horrific 1950s jello desserts. You know, the ones with raisins, carrots and marshmellows in a terrifying, gravity-defying suspension of green agar.

Mark


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Hmmm ok so to end this, what brand silicone did you guys use and what color


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

darts707 said:


> Hmmm ok so to end this, what brand silicone did you guys use and what color


Clear GE 1 silicone 90% of the time.


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## gope (Jun 26, 2014)

GE Silicone I All-Purpose Caulk, Black, 10.1-oz.: Model# GE312A | True Value

Have it shipped to your nearest store. There's a store finder at the site.

Another option. 
http://www.joshsfrogs.com/backgrounds/background-supplies.html


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## BrainBug (Aug 25, 2010)

darts707 said:


> I'll visit ACE hardware store as well then! So their brand is fine then right? So anything containing organotins is a nono right?


Did you visit Ace yet? I use Ace brand black for background. They also carry small tubes of Dap black and clear that advertise as being aquarium safe but they are a little spendy.


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

I'll be visiting later. If home depot and ace hardware don't have what I want I'll just order that great value brand


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## darts707 (May 19, 2015)

Found a Dap 100% black silicone 12 pack for around $80 but no individuals


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## Bighurt (Jun 18, 2011)

I use DAP 100% silicone


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