# Looking for Seeds-DIY Moss Mix???



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

So first of all I would like to wish everyone here happy holidays and thank you all for the great information and help that you guys provide on this site. 

Now that the mushy stuffs out of the way, a few weeks ago I hit chris (umbrasprite) up for some moss mix. Unfortunately though because of some bad business practices by the epiweb folks he is currently unable to provide us with that product. This got me thinking, it shouldn't be all that difficult to make. I have half a pound of LFS and a blender. All I would need is a few types of mosses and a nice selection of fern, pep, and other Viv suitable plant seeds.

So what I would like from you guys is any suggestions as to plants that would work well for the moss mix,keeping in mind that they will need to be able to withstand Viv conditions and of suitable size, AND a source for the seeds. Epiphytes would be ideal BUT I wouldn't think that it would be an absolute necessity. The beauty comes from the mixture of growth habits, forms, and textures so anything goes!

So what do you guys think, could it be done?!


----------



## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

What about orchid seeds


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

vivbulider said:


> What about orchid seeds


That would be cool especially since some jewel orchids run $30 or more for live plants! The thing is though that im not sure where to go to purchase them or which species would work.... got any suggestions?!


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There are a couple of do it yourself moss mixes that will work provided you have enough light and the humidity is right. In the first one, take some peat moss and mix it 50/50 with some clay to hold it together make a slurry and pipet it into the epiweb where you want it to start growing. This should provide you with a low growing darkgreen moss that is pretty aggressive in its growth (it was the bane of my small carniverous plants if I wasn't careful). 

The second method would be to get a single osmunda fiber panel and cut some strips off of it and affix that to the background (I know not sustainable etc..but in this application on board goes a very long way) and keep it well hydrated in bright light. This will provide you with a greater variety of mosses as well as a variety of ferns (I had a treefern grow from a small piece at one point several years ago) but again it requires very bright light to work the best. 

Ed


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

my fern panels (dicksonia) seem to sprout more mosses where it has some indirect light rather than in the well lit areas.

james


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Ed said:


> There are a couple of do it yourself moss mixes that will work provided you have enough light and the humidity is right. In the first one, take some peat moss and mix it 50/50 with some clay to hold it together make a slurry and pipet it into the epiweb where you want it to start growing. This should provide you with a low growing darkgreen moss that is pretty aggressive in its growth (it was the bane of my small carniverous plants if I wasn't careful).
> 
> The second method would be to get a single osmunda fiber panel and cut some strips off of it and affix that to the background (I know not sustainable etc..but in this application on board goes a very long way) and keep it well hydrated in bright light. This will provide you with a greater variety of mosses as well as a variety of ferns (I had a treefern grow from a small piece at one point several years ago) but again it requires very bright light to work the best.
> 
> Ed


Thanks Ed both methods sound pretty cool. So would you suggest using peat over sphag? I could probably mix both and then cut that mixture with the clay. Do you have any suggestions as to seeds to throw in? I have tree fern in my tank so this would work excellent and provide a great surface for epiphytes to establish on. Also where can I font the osmunda panels?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

james67 said:


> my fern panels (dicksonia) seem to sprout more mosses where it has some indirect light rather than in the well lit areas.
> 
> james


Hi James,

I've had sphagnums sprout from a fern panel that was close to the top of the tank (close to 95 watts of PC). Usually the brighter the light the greater the variety I see from the osmunda. 

Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stitchb said:


> Thanks Ed both methods sound pretty cool. So would you suggest using peat over sphag? I could probably mix both and then cut that mixture with the clay. Do you have any suggestions as to seeds to throw in? I have tree fern in my tank so this would work excellent and provide a great surface for epiphytes to establish on. Also where can I font the osmunda panels?


 
The reason I mention peat over sphagnum moss is that I've had a lot of mosses come from it. I don't use a lot of sphagnum in long-term setups so I can't speak to the diversity that can come from it. 

I haven't tried seeds in any tanks so I really can't suggest any of those either. 


Ed


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Gesneriad seeds would be a good choice and shouldn't be to hard to find if you dig around online. Utricularia seeds are another option but I wouldn't bother unless you can get fresh seeds from a domestic source. Most suppliers are international and by the time the seeds get here most aren't viable.


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> Gesneriad seeds would be a good choice and shouldn't be to hard to find if you dig around online. Utricularia seeds are another option but I wouldn't bother unless you can get fresh seeds from a domestic source. Most suppliers are international and by the time the seeds get here most aren't viable.


Thanks Dave I was thinking that gesneriads would would be a good candidate but I don't have to much (or any really  lol) experience with them so I wasn't sure how they would fare. I also was thinking some arroids would make good candidate as well, but here again I am a novice at best in this department as well. I suppose I can do some research and come up with 2-3 species of each and revise as necessary!


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

stitchb said:


> Thanks Dave I was thinking that gesneriads would would be a good candidate but I don't have to much (or any really  lol) experience with them so I wasn't sure how they would fare. I also was thinking some arroids would make good candidate as well, but here again I am a novice at best in this department as well. I suppose I can do some research and come up with 2-3 species of each and revise as necessary!


Most varieties do well in vivs I think. Seeds of small begonia varieties may be another option. Aroids might be good but I would try to stick to a seed collection of smaller and small/medium sized plants because when making a mix like that you never know which seed will end up where. So smaller plants are more likely to land in places with adequate space to grow then you can hand place larger plants to fill in areas in the exact places you want those.


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> Most varieties do well in vivs I think. Seeds of small begonia varieties may be another option. Aroids might be good but I would try to stick to a seed collection of smaller and small/medium sized plants because when making a mix like that you never know which seed will end up where. So smaller plants are more likely to land in places with adequate space to grow then you can hand place larger plants to fill in areas in the exact places you want those.


Excellent idea Dave. As you stated earlier there is plenty of info on the web so I think what im going to do is compile a list and let you guys on here help me whittle it down. I've found a great site with gesneriad info and photos so ill start probably start there.


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

So here is a working list of gesneriads in no particular order. I tried to stick to genera that are common to the hobby so that's why the list is mostly aeschynanthus. I looked at quite a few columnea as well but I don't fancy them as much. There quit a lot more gesneriads that would make excelent house plants or garden additions. Check out www.gesneriad.ca for lots of pix and info. Feel free to add your suggestions and comments.

Aeschynanthus
A.curtisii
A.obconicus
A.parviflorus
A.pulcher
A.radicans

Asteranthera ovata
Boea hygroscopica
Neomortonia rosea
Ridleyandra spp.


----------



## iljjlm (Mar 5, 2006)

The Gesneriad Reference Web

Your link didn't work, so here it is. You forgot the s.
Thanks for it though.

Dave


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

stitchb said:


> So here is a working list of gesneriads in no particular order. I tried to stick to genera that are common to the hobby so that's why the list is mostly aeschynanthus. I looked at quite a few columnea as well but I don't fancy them as much. There quit a lot more gesneriads that would make excelent house plants or garden additions. Check out www.gesneriad.ca for lots of pix and info. Feel free to add your suggestions and comments.
> 
> Aeschynanthus
> A.curtisii
> ...


I would look into Episcia, mini sinningia, mini african violets, and chirita also. Most of those will stay small, and I think you really will want to go with some of the smallest plants possible to make sure they have the room. Then hand plant your larger focus plants. The trick will be finding seeds. Here are couple of resources I dug up real quick...
EPISCIA search B & T World Seeds (little hard to navigate but they stock seeds from TONS of stuff)

Might be worth poking around here, or even signing up so you can buy/trade with memebers...
Tips and Advice on Outdoor Gardening, Flower Gardens, Plants, & Seeds - Dave's Garden


Haven't looked around it yet but saw it listed as a source on dave's garden forum...
Index

And digging through this site or contacting them may be worth a try if you are serious...
The Gesneriad Society - Gesneriad Propagation


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> I would look into Episcia, mini sinningia, mini african violets, and chirita also. Most of those will stay small, and I think you really will want to go with some of the smallest plants possible to make sure they have the room. Then hand plant your larger focus plants. The trick will be finding seeds. Here are couple of resources I dug up real quick...
> EPISCIA search B & T World Seeds (little hard to navigate but they stock seeds from TONS of stuff)
> 
> Might be worth poking around here, or even signing up so you can buy/trade with memebers...
> ...


Thanks for the sites Dave. B&T is actually the reason I decided to start this thread lol-confusing is an under statement! I also looked at the episcia on the site I posted and there are some very sweet types. I wasnt sure which types would work as the growing info isn't really listed. With the resources that you listed though I'm sure I'll find something.
PS-thanks for fixing the link Dave


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

what about some begonia seeds? like Saxifraga Sarmentosa(i know, not a true begonia), and as said before, ferns, which IMO, good ferns would be Hemonitis arifolia, Nephrolepis Cordifolia, Adiantum sp, platycerium etc... If you could get some, selaginella, columnea, dischidia, Hoya, cryptanthus, peperomia, and some orchids, would be the "ultimate mix." 


Just my 2 cents


----------



## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

If you need orchid seeds check eBay they have packs of 20 for 8 bucks


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

vivbulider said:


> If you need orchid seeds check eBay they have packs of 20 for 8 bucks


Ebay is an excellent resource that I totally over looked...I probably could find all the seeds I would need there at next-to-nothing prices!! Once I finalize a list that will be my first stop for seeds.


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

boabab95 said:


> what about some begonia seeds? like Saxifraga Sarmentosa(i know, not a true begonia), and as said before, ferns, which IMO, good ferns would be Hemonitis arifolia, Nephrolepis Cordifolia, Adiantum sp, platycerium etc... If you could get some, selaginella, columnea, dischidia, Hoya, cryptanthus, peperomia, and some orchids, would be the "ultimate mix."
> 
> 
> Just my 2 cents


Thanks for the suggestions! I had strawberry begonia (Saxifrage something or other) and I loved it. My only concern with that is how aggressive it can be once it gets going, I would think that it could have the potential to take over! Also im not sure how the cryptanthus would do as I seem to member reading that they don't like to be too moist. Neos on the other hand would be an excellent sub. The rest of your suggestions are spot on though and I really appreciate your suggestions for fern species. I'm not too sure about columned either-got any suggestions on that? I'll post a list with more candidates here in a bit...before I get too tipsy lol


----------



## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

I think a Good choice also would be Mushroom Spores.

I have also been throwing around an Idea of making my own Moss/Seed Mixture to add to drip walls.

I used up the last of my Moss Mixture and want to do my own.


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

stitchb said:


> Thanks for the suggestions! I had strawberry begonia (Saxifrage something or other) and I loved it. My only concern with that is how aggressive it can be once it gets going, I would think that it could have the potential to take over! Also im not sure how the cryptanthus would do as I seem to member reading that they don't like to be too moist. Neos on the other hand would be an excellent sub. The rest of your suggestions are spot on though and I really appreciate your suggestions for fern species. I'm not too sure about columned either-got any suggestions on that? I'll post a list with more candidates here in a bit...before I get too tipsy lol



Columnea is great!!! I have I think 4 different kinds in my leuc tank... In particular, I think C. argule would be great, amazing leaf patterns, great flowers and they are very adaptable...






I think mushroom spores would be awesome!!!! especially irredescent mushrooms


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

jpstod said:


> I think a Good choice also would be Mushroom Spores.
> 
> I have also been throwing around an Idea of making my own Moss/Seed Mixture to add to drip walls.
> 
> I used up the last of my Moss Mixture and want to do my own.


In theory a good idea, and it may even work the one problem with adding spores to a moss mix is a suitable growing substrate. It is possible maybe mixing some sawdust and sphagnum into a paste might work, but for mushrooms you'll probably want to inoculated plugs and insert them into holes drilled in your drift wood, or inoculate cracks in the drift wood directly. Hard to say if anything will actually happen in a substrate unless it has a lot of wood chips/saw dust and maybe even coir worked into it.




boabab95 said:


> Columnea is great!!! I have I think 4 different kinds in my leuc tank... In particular, I think C. argule would be great, amazing leaf patterns, great flowers and they are very adaptable...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You mean bio-luminescent ones? I don't know of any iridescent shrooms, at least not commercially available.


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> You mean bio-luminescent ones? I don't know of any iridescent shrooms, at least not commercially available.


Yes, that's what I mean, I realized that after the edit time was up (god, i hate the edit time)


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

I tried applying a syringe of luminescent panellus (sp) in several different locations and substrates to no avail.

http://mushroompatch.ca/liquid_mycelium.htm


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Can't believe I forgot about this (one of the many things i want to have too much of...haha)


UTRICULARIA!!!!!


they are pretty easy to start from seed, and they can make great ground/wall cover...


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

D3monic said:


> I tried applying a syringe of luminescent panellus (sp) in several different locations and substrates to no avail.
> 
> http://mushroompatch.ca/liquid_mycelium.htm


How long ago? It could just take a long time, especially in a natural environment with springs and stuff munching away at the mycelium. I have mushrooms pop up and I may not see that type of mushroom pop up again till years later...If ever. I doubt many of us will have the kind of success that makes these a constant or reliable feature of our vivs, but some of us may luck out at least and have sporadic/temporary enjoyment of them...I hope  Starting a culture going and then adding a well started batch into a pre existing viv may work better and/or they may work better in established vivs as opposed to new vivs.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

boabab95 said:


> Can't believe I forgot about this (one of the many things i want to have too much of...haha)
> 
> 
> UTRICULARIA!!!!!
> ...


I think these are a great option, as I mentioned a few posts back...but only if you can find a source of good viable seeds. It may be different in canada but in the US it seems most of our options are international if you don't have good contacts in the CP hobby to supply you domestically. From what I hear and my own experiences also...the international seeds will not be reliably viable unless you perhaps cough up the money for fastest shipping possible and find a source that ships FRESH SEEDS quickly. Took me nearly a month from placing my order to actually get my seeds...none of which germinated as of yet, and that was 6 months ago at least.


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> I think these are a great option, as I mentioned a few posts back...but only if you can find a source of good viable seeds. It may be different in canada but in the US it seems most of our options are international if you don't have good contacts in the CP hobby to supply you domestically. From what I hear and my own experiences also...the international seeds will not be reliably viable unless you perhaps cough up the money for fastest shipping possible and find a source that ships FRESH SEEDS quickly. Took me nearly a month from placing my order to actually get my seeds...none of which germinated as of yet, and that was 6 months ago at least.


the viability would be a huge factor...[gladly I have access to some quickly]


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

boabab95 said:


> the viability would be a huge factor...[gladly I have access to some quickly]


Lucky you...any way you can get those to the states quickly?


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> Lucky you...any way you can get those to the states quickly?


haha not in this weather... we'll talk...lol


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Alright I finally have a fairly comprehensive list. I've done some research on most of the species listed here but not all. I pretty muches checked other forums and communities similar to DB and snooped around to see what thought looked cool. A few of these offings are pretty common and supplied by the sponsors so im sure they would work great. I also was able to find seed suppliers for a few speccies as well! Also I think that the idea that Dave mentioned earlier about holding off on the center pieces until thing get established and fill in is a good idea and that's why I don't have any species listed for hoya or any orchids either. Soo with that all being said here's the list! Let's get some feedback!

Peperomia prostrata
P obtusifolia
P dolabriformis
P andina
P angusta
P angulata
P bangroana
P caespitosa
P carperata
P cuchumatanica
P euburnea
P peltoidea
P quadrangularis
P swartziana
Senningia concinna
S pusilla
S sp. "Rio das padras"
Selaginella kraussiana
S erythropus
Lemmaphyllum microphyllum
Nephrolepis cordifolia
Microsorum sp. 
Belchium Penna-marina alpina
Bolbitis heteroclita
Leptinella
Dishidia imbricata
D cleistantha
D astephana
D ovate
Hoya
Utricularia longifolium
U alpine

I apologize if my spelling is incorrect-I can't read my own hand writing lol. Also I couldn't find Columnea argule...I searched and was able to find. References to 'C. argyle' but no images-anyone got a link I could check out? 
Thanks guys in advance.


----------



## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

Hi, I'm new here but have successfully grown moss on my mounts for orchids. 

What I do is collect a few kinds of moss, put it in a blender, and mix in dried sphagnum moss, rainwater, and something for the moss to obtain a sugar. I've read milk, buttermilk, beer, etc. This is then blended into a slurry and painted where you want it. 

If you want to add the seeds to this mix, you may want to add them after the blending and just mix manually. 

Also, I would recommend staying away from orchid seeds (I see that you don't have any on your list but just for information's sake). Orchid seeds lack a necessary protein that allows for germination on their own. In the wild, orchid seeds use a bacteria (I think) to provide the protein necessary for germination. As the seedling grows, it eventually outgrows the bacteria and fights it off. In culture, this bacteria rarely exists. Orchid breeders use specialized types of growth media which provides the necessary nutrients for germination in sterile flasks to grow seedlings. 

Hope this information helps!


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Spaff said:


> Hi, I'm new here but have successfully grown moss on my mounts for orchids.
> 
> What I do is collect a few kinds of moss, put it in a blender, and mix in dried sphagnum moss, rainwater, and something for the moss to obtain a sugar. I've read milk, buttermilk, beer, etc. This is then blended into a slurry and painted where you want it.
> 
> ...


Thanks it does! The mixture I was going to use was equal parts LFS and peat as the base and incorporate two tropical moss types and a few that I've collected locally. This will all be blended together until fine and the seeds added afterward. I've been tossing around the idea of using a little light beer-maybe like one part beer: three parts water. Im not totally sure on that yet. I definately wont be using milk or yogurt though because it gets funky! Its great for moss graffiti though...


----------



## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

I think your idea will work just fine. I also have never used the milk or any dairy product when culturing my moss. Also, make sure your water is rain, distilled, RO/DI, something like that. I've never been successful using tap water with the moss.


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

Spaff said:


> I think your idea will work just fine. I also have never used the milk or any dairy product when culturing my moss. Also, make sure your water is rain, distilled, RO/DI, something like that. I've never been successful using tap water with the moss.


Ha no worries there-I learned that lesson the hard way. We have super hard water and we use like a bag of those salt pellet softners every other week. Any way I had gathered some moss to test and after the first watering two or three of my samples turned yellowish brown and never recouped. Now I use distilled or I filter the water from the dehumidifier in the basement. The experiment did work and I was able to get some started on a treefern plaque but I think when I transfered it to my Viv I used hard water on it and nixed it lol  maybe it will rebound. If not atleast I know where to get more!


----------



## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

Wow, I wish I'd looked at this thread earlier. As soon as I read it, I ran outside and stuffed a plastic storage tote full of snow, since we don't get much rain this time of year in WA. As soon as this stuff melts, I'm making myself a slurry.

I noticed you listed Microsorum sp in the seeds list. I've got a lot of that plant growing in my fishtank, how would I go about getting it to grow on a moss wall? Just stick it on there and keep it misted?


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

pnwpdf said:


> Wow, I wish I'd looked at this thread earlier. As soon as I read it, I ran outside and stuffed a plastic storage tote full of snow, since we don't get much rain this time of year in WA. As soon as this stuff melts, I'm making myself a slurry.
> 
> I noticed you listed Microsorum sp in the seeds list. I've got a lot of that plant growing in my fishtank, how would I go about getting it to grow on a moss wall? Just stick it on there and keep it misted?


Haha heck yea I've been doing the same cause the basement is a little dry this time of the year but PLENTY of snow! But it should be a breeze to start it on your background just make sure you've got a good section of rhizome and wrap it with sphag before you pin it up. You'll want to keep it fairly moist until it gets going. Its portably going to die back a bit so don't freak out lol.


----------



## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

That sounds easy enough  I've got plenty of microsorum rhizomes and sphagnum.

Its amazing how much snow it takes to get a little bit of water... about 20 gallons of snow has now melted down to about 5 gallons of water.


----------



## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

what about brom seeds it would be cool to see them grow


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

vivbulider said:


> what about brom seeds it would be cool to see them grow


I been searching high and low! I've found a few things here and there but im nowhere near having a nice complete diverse mix. I think this might not be the best time of the year for seeds. Also alot of the plants we typically use are cutivars that don't produce true from seed so that also makes it tough to nail things down. I haven't given up yet though and actually just bought a couple types of tropical moss to puree lol. As far as broms go though I would love to try-especially neos. If you come across a source for seeds be sure to post it!!


----------



## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Did you ever get this mix together?


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

mordoria said:


> Did you ever get this mix together?


I sure did! I forgot to document what I did though. Here's a rough outline though:
first I gathered some seeds. I joined the gesneriad society and got a nice random mix of seeds. I also got some utricularia alpina seeds. I ordered more, some peperomia and even some fern spores, but I got impatient waiting on it to ship and left them out. 

Anyway the next thing I got was some tropical mosses. I used types one that grows in cushions and one pretty similar to java moss. I also used two different kinds from my yard.

I mixed up the moss in a blender with equal parts beer and water and used some dried sphagnum to thicken it to the consistency of paint, mixed in the seeds I had, and painted it on. 

I think im gonna give it one more pass hopefully with a few more types of seeds mixed in! Ill be sure to take plenty pix!


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

mordoria said:


> Did you ever get this mix together?


I sure did! I forgot to document what I did though. Here's a rough outline though:
first I gathered some seeds. I joined the gesneriad society and got a nice random mix of seeds. I also got some utricularia alpina seeds. I ordered more, some peperomia and even some fern spores, but I got impatient waiting on it to ship and left them out. 

Anyway the next thing I got was some tropical mosses. I used types one that grows in cushions and one pretty similar to java moss. I also used two different kinds from my yard.

I mixed up the moss in a blender with equal parts beer and water and used some dried sphagnum to thicken it to the consistency of paint, mixed in the seeds I had, and painted it on. 

I think im gonna give it one more pass hopefully with a few more types of seeds mixed in! Ill be sure to take plenty pix!


----------



## whatamithinking02 (Mar 14, 2011)

Trust me it will work.. I use this method to grow all my moss.. works like a charm.. Huge lush green sheets.. Only diff is i dont use beer but i use butter milk..


----------



## RentaPig311 (Jul 6, 2009)

Is buttermilk or beer frog safe or you do this before they move in?


----------



## whatamithinking02 (Mar 14, 2011)

Im not sure about beer.. i use buttermilk so i can only contest to this.. Yes it is frog safe.. i currently just added this method to my new terrarium i build that has 6 red vents and i see them hop all over it.. plus i use this as a start up for two reasons

lush green moss after couple months

second

all the mildew from the buttermilk that pops up help my tank start off its isopod and springtail cultures booming!!!!!!!!!

If you have any issues let me know.. I am actually doing a picture documentation now for my mix with my combo of mosses i sell so i can show how well the mix does and offer it to people if they want to buy it and try it out.. i just started the photo documentation this week so in a couple months when i huge lush green moss growing every where im going to post pictures..


Also huge rule number 1

DO NOT USE TAP WATER ON YOUR MOSS!


----------



## stitchb (Jan 26, 2009)

RentaPig311 said:


> Is buttermilk or beer frog safe or you do this before they move in?


I currently don't have any frogs in tank just orchids and a few other plants so I cant really comment on any danger to the frogs at this point. I can tell you that you can cut out the beer/yogurt/buttermilk all together and use distilled water only. I've done it both ways and so far and have notice lots of nice patches of green. The only thing about using something other than water is a) the smell. With the beer there is a very sweet musky smell but only when the tank is opened to mist. And b) the mold! It is pretty crazy to wake and see you tank covered in white fluffy mold. My little brother actually thought that we had grown white moss over night lol! Both pass whithin a week or so though and like whatamithinking said the mold is great for any inverts you may have in there. I previously had a bunch of isopods that I thought were all but wiped out but I've been seeing more and more lately which is awesome. The water thing is very important as well.

Once I get some more seeds/plants I'm for sure going to do it one more time and ill make sure to be a responsible db member and document it thoroughly, scouts honor!


----------



## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

So lets see it....


----------

