# Dream frog raffle



## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

Dream frog raffle

Trying to figure a way to get Ivan from Tesoros an influx of cash. 
Just an idea, apologies if it has been brought up before, but what about a raffle for a probable pair of Lehmannis? For example, 50.00 dollars a ticket, buy more then one if you like. I believe with the amount of people on this forum that wish they can have a precious pair of Lehmannis alone would generate some serious cash. 
Tesoro could have more then one raffle, they can do it by country.
His effort has generated interest all over the world. The winner can get his frogs when the importer gets them, Ivan can send the frogs with the rest of the shipment. The winner would only have to pay for shipping.

Don't want to upset anyone, Tesoros is doing great work. This is just an idea.


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

Out of curiosity, how many members would buy a raffle ticket?


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Unfortunately there is the hurdle to clear of getting the permits for legal export.

Also, last thing I personally want to see, is these frogs go to just anyone who could afford a raffle ticket. If we ever get these frogs, they should go to experienced keepers so that we have a better chance of getting them well established.

Sorry to be a killjoy, I think you have good intentions, just some problems with the idea.


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

I have to agree with Doug on this one, the goal should be to establish the frogs in the hobby first. 

I would buy a raffle ticket for one of those new Bicolors though...


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## Friggy_frogger (Aug 24, 2014)

me too.....


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

someone like me would buy a ticket...and let a more experienced person have them....a win-win...


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

All great points, maybe a raffle for some of the other frogs that Ivan is working with. The idea behind the raffle is trying to get an influx of money for his efforts. In regards to the permits, that is a great point. We don't know when or if he is ever going to get them. Maybe, a stipulation that if no permits are granted the the raffle is void and no refunds. I will still buy a ticket. However, not to diminish the point of inexperience froggers getting them, if the lehmanni ever makes to our shores, the inexperience frogger might get them anyway, some might be able to afford them. I believe, we can all agree that if Ivan does not have enough funds to continue his efforts, that this worthy cause might come to an end.


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

As noble as "getting them into the most experienced hands first" may seem, that really isn't practical with the asking price these frogs will command. The cost of specimens will price out most of those people with high experience levels, opening up availability to that can afford them.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Spaff said:


> As noble as "getting them into the most experienced hands first" may seem, that really isn't practical with the asking price these frogs will command. The cost of specimens will price out most of those people with high experience levels, opening up availability to that can afford them.


Probably so, which is lamentable. No doubt a few will be lost to people with deep pockets(and little else).

I disagree though that it will price out those with experience. Maybe some. But people who already can afford and have experience with some of the more challenging large obligates are already paying a premium for working with those species, and I know many of them are already stockpiling cash in hopes of stepping up to the plate.

My hope is that Tesoros and Ivan would at least only open up the initial offering to select individuals, much like understory has done with certain frogs in the past.


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

Doug, I totally understand your point, I'm not sure, who decides what person has enough experience to have the privilege to work with these frogs. You pointed out that Understory has offered certain individual certain frogs in the past. Does that mean that after a few selective people has had the opportunity to purchase a certain frog, Understory releases the rest on a first come basis. I don't want this to be read the wrong way, I wish to stay positive on this subject but you have members on this forum with more frogs then some zoos and doing a great job but then you have a member
With two or three pairs of frogs. Both members equally knowledgeable in large obligates. Who gets chosen?


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Spaff said:


> As noble as "getting them into the most experienced hands first" may seem, that really isn't practical with the asking price these frogs will command. The cost of specimens will price out most of those people with high experience levels, opening up availability to that can afford them.


Why are people so scared of rich boogy men who like to flush thousands of dollars down the drain on rare frogs they will kill? I have seen this concept thrown around here constantly but I have seen almost no evidence of it actually happening to any significant degree. Quite the opposite my knowledge of what really goes on seems to be that there is a level of cronyism that takes place and knowing the inside people and importers and getting first dibs is far more valuable than any other ability and most of the people with these connections are the very experienced whom have earned favor by trades, favors and prior purchases. 

The people with money are the experienced breeders, they are the importers, they are the stores that will flip them to others breeders. The people who are willing to put up the cash are the ones who think they can turn a profit and those people are your peers not random rich boogy men. I think that the market will work itself out, the people whom are confident in their ability to breed probably already own sylvatica or others and will free up cash to get in on this.


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