# Some advice on preserving a dart frog



## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

Hi guys i just had one of my baby vents die, and i was wondering if you guys have any ideas on how i can preserve it? I was thinking in a cube of Epoxy but how is that done? How do i get the epoxy to be shaped into a cube? Lol i know this is a weird subject but its kinda neat...

thanks
Ryan,


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

you would have to get your hands on some enbalming fluid first or will probably rot.


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

but i dont think it will rot in epoxy, will it?


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

Please people if you can take a minute and post i would like to know what to do before he rots lol, thanks again


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## kebpts (May 2, 2008)

There are a few differant types of bactera that can take hold in an oxygen low/free environment. If you get lucky it might make it, however your best bet would be to get it preserved first. Maybe call your vet? see if they can preserve it... or, contact a taxidermist.


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

so what well this vet do? Cant i just freeze it?


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Have any vodka on hand? 80 -100 proof booze will preserve frogs perfectly. Rubbing alcohol should also work fine but make sure to dilute it to around 40% - too strong and your frog will turn into a raisin.

-Evan


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

but nothing i can do with epoxy? And just any Vodka?


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

Dart King this may not be the most helpful post but atleast it's something....

I know that removing the internal organs is a good idea as these are difficult to embalm. All the blood needs to be drained and then you need embalming fluid or other preservative. If you do a search on embalming and embalming fluid you will get alot of results out of google.

I would research it myself but in all honesty it's probably best done by you since I've never even gone there with that before. 

After the body is preserved then you can use a mold (this can just be a plastic box) for the epoxy. If you would like the body in a specific position I suggest a thin metal wire or you might be able to use fishing wire tied to 2 sides of the box to suspend the body. Then pour very slowly.

However, as I've never actually done this I cannot tell you what the epoxy might do to the skin of the frog. I do know that it is best to avoid bubbles in whatever liquid you use for optimal viewing.


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

i think that i way to hard to do with an animal that is 1 cm long, but i appretiate the advice, anymore before i put him in vodka?


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## Vinicam (Sep 13, 2008)

Drink him after you put in vodka! Poison Dart Drink! Wooohoo


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## kebpts (May 2, 2008)

After you have him clean. Vodka soak would proably work. There is a product called "Envirotex Pour-On" it is used to make bar tops. (Ace hardware should have it, mine does) It will stick to anything but plastic, so if you have a small plastic box you should be able to pour a little in the bottom, set the frog on that layer then slowly pour more. You might need to hold the frog down as it might try to float ontop. The hard part will be avoiding bubbles. Pour supper slow and you should be fine. its a 2 part epoxy, so the larger the ammount the faster it sets, it will get very hot thats another thing that can have unforseen effects on the frog body.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

i would ask tracy hicks, you probably can find his contact info through frognet. he does tons of stuff with preservation.


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## fishfry (Aug 20, 2006)

I have seen this done before, when I looked it up it is called a "plastonated specimen". Places like Carolina Biological sell these, but I am not sure of the technique to make them. I think the clear acrylic resin you can buy at Michael's Craft Store would work. This is the resin you use to make the fake water in artificial flower displays. Probably too late for this specimen, but if it was me I would try and get my hands on some 10% formalin for preservation before attempting any acrylic/resin process. You can purchase formalin from Carolina Biological or another biological supply house, I do not believe there are any restrictions on purchasing it. 

The additional benefit of the formalin is it will stiffen the specimen, the technique I have been taught is to lay out a formalin soaked paper towel in a shallow container and then put the frog in a sitting position, then lay a 2nd paper towel on top of the positioned frog and pour more formalin to cover it. Cover the container and do this outside if your area is not ventilated, be careful because formalin is nasty stuff and you don't want to get any in your eyes or on your skin. After a day or so the specimen should be fixed permanently in that position and you can move it to ethyl alcohol if you would like... Also, certain pigments wash out in formalin and certain don't. Blue seems to keep pretty well, and yellow will turn completely white. I am not sure if moving them to alcohol after a day in the formalin will preserve the colors better and prevent them from washing out. Here are some examples of plastonated specimens for sale, maybe you can research this more to learn about the technique.

Chinese-Foreign Joint Venture Wenzhou Lianying Teaching Instrument Co.,Ltd.---A specialty supplier of Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Human model and so on teaching instrument.

Frog Development Plastomount - Specimens in Display Cases - Biological Displays - Life Science - Carolina Biological Supply Company

Good luck!


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

very helpful for another frog thanks alot fishfry!


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## fishfry (Aug 20, 2006)

No problem. Also, I forgot to add that the reason for using a 2nd towel to cover the frog in the formalin container is to keep the frog from floating to the surface.


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

I hate to say it, but this is a pretty interesting thread!


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

hey i dont blame ya, whats wrong with preserving your frog after death? Its actually very cool, not that you want them to die or anything, but sh!t happens....and i think theres nothing cooler then having your frogs that youv kept over the years preserved.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

ok now the casting i can help with.... you will probably use a transparent 2 part epoxy resin (smooth-on makes some great products but you need to make sure you get the transparent) you will need to mix the 2 parts and put the mixing cup under vaccum,(this will pull bubbles formed during mixing out of the mixture) you dont need to suspend it just pour a small ammount into your mold (that you have coated in aerosol mold release) and let it harden. then place the specimen on top of the slab you have already poured. pour slowly and as high as you can to thin out the stream (this will help prevent bubbles) now place all of these into a pressure pot (this is the only way to get rid of bubbles) not a pressure cooker a pressure pot. it will harden in about 7-10 minutes. as far as i know this is how all of the preserved specimens you see are made.
you can sand this and buff it but you will need very very fine paper and lots of time.

james


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

wow thats very detailed! I will have to start collecting these products incase of a death...


thanks


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## BillB55 (Aug 7, 2008)

Just one other note--the frog's colors will almost completely bleach out once it's preserved, I believe, whether you use vodka or formalin. If you are trying to preserve the frog in his colorful, natural state, then I don't think those liquids will work.
Bill


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

yes i would like to preserve the colors and all, any one have an idea on that?


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## lestat (Feb 25, 2007)

boogsawaste said:


> I hate to say it, but this is a pretty interesting thread!


I agree. I hope I don't get the opportunity any time soon, but I'd like to try some of these suggestions myself. 

Does black bleach out as well?


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Formalin will do a much better job preserving colors, but on little guys the colors will go eventually. The quickest way to get rid of colors is to put a frog in alcohol > 70%. Formalin does a spectacular job on bigger herps but on the tiny guys the colors are doomed. Hope you took photos!

-Evan


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## LaserGecko (Oct 8, 2007)

My brother is a world class taxidermist. There are a few of them who specialize in herps (he's not one of them) and I've only talked to him about reptiles, so it may be a completely different game with an amphibian.

Cover him in epoxy and you're likely going to end up with a very disgusting looking fake ice cube in a few weeks.

Here's my best guess for a possible scenario:

Probably the best way to do it is to get him to a freeze dryer owner who knows what he's doing. There are good freeze dry operations and there are bad ones. Call around to a local taxidermist and see if they know a good one and get a quote for this whole job. Take the frog and a photo to him. He'll prep it to get freeze dried (pose it, possibly prep it with an injection of something) and will have to come up with a set of fake eyes (probably the ends of black straight pins).

You're going to lose the colors. It's dead and any form of preservation will remove a lot of or most of the color. (This is why it's so important to have a picture of a fish to give to the taxidermist. All the fish skins come out of the bath in shades of brown.) Once it's preserved, the taxidermist will air brush its own colors on it. There's no reason why a good taxidermist couldn't duplicate the colors and patterns exactly. They will probably have some of the casting resin already and the forms to do whatever shape you may want.

A tiny frog body would be far too delicate to handle after it's freeze dried, so resin casting would likely be the best way to go.


Like I said, this is just a guess, but it's based on 30+ years of having a taxidermist for a brother.


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

LaserGecko said:


> You're going to lose the colors. It's dead and any form of preservation will remove a lot of or most of the color. (This is why it's so important to have a picture of a fish to give to the taxidermist. All the fish skins come out of the bath in shades of brown.) Once it's preserved, the taxidermist will air brush its own colors on it. There's no reason why a good taxidermist couldn't duplicate the colors and patterns exactly. They will probably have some of the casting resin already and the forms to do whatever shape you may want.


I was always under the impression that mounted fish weren't real at all. I thought they were just cast from the original fish and made from fiberglass/painted. I saw it sometime on discovery (dirty jobs) and they did a shark that way. I could be wrong as I know nothing of taxidermy except I had a little alligator I bought at a yard sale when I was a kid and played with it as a toy haha.


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## LaserGecko (Oct 8, 2007)

That's true for saltwater fish. I forget why, but you can't preserve their skin the same way. Most of them are not cast from the original fish's body, though. That's the really expensive way to have it done. Usually, the taxidermist just buys a premade fiberglass repro and paints it. I'm sure you can get them for freshwater fish, too, but that's really the cheesy way of doing it. Cookie cutter mount, anyone? Obviously, this is the only option for the catch and release crowd. I guess it's becoming more popular nowadays, but it isn't the "real" way to do it.

If you're getting your 18" largemouth bass mounted, you can get a one or two sided mount. The one sided mount is usually what you'd see mounted to a piece of driftwood. The fish is skinned more quickly that way since once side will be mostly hidden and the sutured area will usually be larger. The skin and head are preserved (smells really good, too), then dried, and an appropriate foam form is selected and modified to fit the contours of that fish. The glass eyes are installed, skin stretched and sewn (tricky to get it right), then the suture area is covered with foam and sanded down. Then, it's airbrushed.

If you want a two sided mount, be prepared to pay quite a bit more since the work is more than doubled. The incision and skinning has to be done much more precisely and the suture has to be almost invisible. My brother once did this coffee table sized "underwater scene" with a sandy bottom, large piece of driftwood and the bass being "hooked" and jumping out of the water complete with frozen splashing water. It's hard to describe, but the only "water" was a sheet about 3' wide at the "surface" and the water splashes were all attached to it. It was incredible and he did really well with it at whatever competition it was made for that year.

(The above is just an approximation. It's been quite awhile since I've been around it.)


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

Ok, now that I think about it I have seen freshwater fish that did seem to be real. I guess that explains it. Sorry to get off topic to the op.


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## Leidig (Apr 10, 2009)

This is an older thread, but I'm really interested to see if anyone actually went through the whole process of perserving a frog.


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## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

You can do it in rubbing alcohol but once its in there its gotta stay. I used to have quite a few jars of preserved animals. None of them rotted. When I was working at a pet store in high school I would take the dead animals to a friend that worked at the natual history museum at a local university. There we would pickle them , put them in with the dermestid beetles, or disect them . . . I had a few salamaders in a jar of alcohol for about 5 years before I got rid of them.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

You won't be able to preserve the colors in a frog in any of the preservation fluids that can be used and regardless of the fluid used, it has to be replaced everynow and then and special containers need to be used to minimize fluid loss and to prevent interaction of the materials with the preserved animals. Rubbing alcohol can be used if nothing else is available but properly diluted ethanol (grain, vodka etc) is a better preservative. 

If you want to try something interesting with the frog so you won't have to worry about colors, fixing, clearing the tissues and then staining the bones or tissues can result in an interesting specimen. 

see Full text of "Clearing and staining skeletons of small vertebrates" 

Ed


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## Fantastica (May 5, 2013)

I know this is an old thread, but I figured I'd second what Ed said. It's what I do for tadpoles on a weekly basis, it's the way we look at the formation of their bones and cartilage. We use the 10% buffered formalin to fix them. Not sure if it can be used on specimens that have been preserved in ethanol.










This is an example of a _R. variabilis_ tadpole that's been cleared and double stained. The blue attaches to cartilage, and the red attaches to bone. In adult specimens (I did it on an adult Yellow Sip), the skeleton is almost completely red.

In my lab, we work with tadpoles initially alive, and we anesthetize them with clove oil before putting them in formalin. If anyone is ever overrun with tadpoles, or has an adult die on them, send me a message and I can clear and stain them for you


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