# !*!*!*!*! Minature Orchids !*!*!*!*!



## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

Any one holding Miniature Orchids in their Viv?
If so tell me the maintenance on them as far watering and climate?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Care can vary widely among specimens, was there a particular species you were interested in growing? Some generic tips for tropical forms; high humidity with really good air exchange, frequent light mistings, but not so much standing moisture as to keep the foliage damp, appropriate positioning within the vivarium so that light transmission and duration is optimal in relation to what wild specimens would receive.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

Dane said:


> Care can vary widely among specimens, was there a particular species you were interested in growing? Some generic tips for tropical forms; high humidity with really good air exchange, frequent light mistings, but not so much standing moisture as to keep the foliage damp, appropriate positioning within the vivarium so that light transmission and duration is optimal in relation to what wild specimens would receive.



No not really a collector but looking for just 2 maybe 3 for the background.
Did see some online but a little guidance for which will or might work in a viv with twice a day some mist from a mistking, Humidity is around 88% and have a screen top so I guess enough air circulation.

My wife has a few outside that she mist everyday but 100F in temps is a tough call but she managed to get a few in bloom already.
They hanging of the arbor where we have a large climbing rose over it so no sunshine but just radiant heat.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Did somebody say, miniature orchids?!!
I have one or two miniature and micro miniature orchids in my 40 gallon vert.

First ones in are all doing great, putting down new roots, throwing new leaves, and starting to get a few blooms. I choose my orchids as much, or more, for their vegetative growth, than for the blooms. There are so many neat, alien forms, that the blooms are just a bonus. Let's see, the first batch in includes:
Bulbophyllum catenulatum
Bulbophyllum lasiochilum dark
Bulbophyllum Megaclinium falcatum var. velutinum
Bulbophyllum Cirrhopetalum taiwanense
Epindendrum Nanodes porpax
Malaxis calophulla aurantiacus
Maxillaria Giant Uncata (grass like, about 6” long super skinny blades)
Mediocalcar decoratum (I was warned this may be difficult in vivs, but it matched all conditions, so I tried it. It is doing amazingly well, and is my fastest growing orchid so far. I've found there are different forms. There are at least two readily available, and one tends to drop dead at 80F. I'm very far from an expert orchid keeper, so I assume I have a clone very well suited for life in a frog viv.)
Pleurothallis acestrophylla
Pleurothallis condorensis -- Could be my placement, but this one is not doing particularly well. It has a couple new leaves, but has lost several. The P. acestrophylla, listed above this one, is doing amazing, and has a very similar growth form.
Pleurothallis microphylla
Scaphosepalum cimex
Scaphosepalum species aff. Swertifolium red spot
Schoenorchis scolopendria sp. Creeping (China) This one is very challenging, as it’s really easy to overwater and start It rotting. It can be done, but not as your first. NO SPHAGNUM AT ALL IF YOU MIST DAILY!
Trichosalpinx chamealepanthes

Next ones in:
Zygostates alleniana Indigenous to Paraguay. Right front branch 
Zootrophion serpentinum Indigenous to Ecuador. Hanging at the base of Bloodshot Eyes brom.
Zootrophion (Cryptophoranthus) atropurpureus Indigenous to Jamaica. Main tree, on top of lowest branch, near the trunk, and is directly below Zootrophion serpintinium
Masdevallia minuta Indigenous to Surinam. Main tree, top part of lowest branch
Pleurothallis johnstonii Indigenous to Mexico Main tree, on top of triple branch, facing backwards 
Ceratostylis pleurothallis (sp. mini Cambodia). Not mounted yet, sittin on sloped log 
Dendrobium prenticei Indigenous to Australia. Main tree, top branch.
Trichosalpinx orbicularis Indigenous to Costa Rica. Mounted to main tree’s triple branch, underneath the top branch.
Trisetella Species (species) Indigenous to South America Upper right front corner, on main tree top branch -- Not a beginner's orchid. It must be kept constantly moist, but is also easy to overwater. Amount of sphag used, must be carefully balanced with how often you mist.
Haraella odorata Indigenous to Taiwan. Main tree, mounted halfway up the bottom of the top triple branch.
Bulbophyllum alagense large form Indigenous to Philippines. Main tree, top branch, at the far tip. Upper right front corner
Platystele misera Indigenous to Colombia. Main tree halfway up trunk. “meatiest” leaves. Right under and to the left of P corniculata.
Platystele erectoglossa (dasyglossa) Indigenous to Colombia. Main tree, triple branch, underneath middle branch near front. Sub colony on bottom of top triple branch. 
Platystele consobrina Indigenous to Colombia. 
Pleurothallis corniculata Indigenous to Jamaica. **bad roots** Main tree halfway up trunk
Platystele densiflora Indigenous to Colombia. Main tree triple branch, mounted halfway up the top branch, on bottom, facing both sides of branch.
Barbosella gardneri Indigenous to Brazil.
Barbosella crassifolia Indigenous to Brazil
NOTE: My Platystele are doing very poorly, but I received them with completely dead roots. A few small divisions may pull through. Platystele are only rated for up to about 80F, so they are on the edge of keepable, depending on your temperatures. Pumilio like a warmer tank, but Platystele do not. Keep that in mind when choosing orchids.

Next batch purchased. I've researched every plant on this list and found that their required conditions should allow them to thrive in a proper viv. Some went in my viv, some will be saved for a huge Living Wall I'm planning in my living room. It it has location details, it's in my viv.
Lepanthes Species: species (various) Indigenous to Latin America
Pleurothallis Species: Mastodon Indigenous to Ecuador
Pleurothallis Species: fastidiosa (schweinfurthii) Indigenous to Ecuador
Pleurothallis Species: Acuminate Indigenous to Peru
Pleurothallis Species: Acestrophylla Indigenous to Peru
Lanium (Epidendrum) Species: Avicula Indigenous to Brazil
Microsaccus griffithii Indigenous to Thailand – Main tree on left, 1/3 down
Dendrochilum Species: Cootesii Indigenous to Philippines
Dendrochilum Species: quadrilobium (sp. LL mini) Indigenous to Philippines
Dendrochilum Species: Irigense Indigenous to Philippines
Dendrochilum Species: curranii (sp. 02 Philippines) Indigenous to Philippines
Restrepia species 2 Indigenous to Colombia – Left tree at back 1/3 down under brom 2 (second largest brom)
Restrepia species 1 Indigenous to Ecuador – Trio of plants on left wall, front, 1/3 up
Restrepia lansburgii Indigenous to Costa Rica – Left tree ¼ up, under lower broken branch
Pleurothallis Species: Endotrachys Indigenous to Colombia
Pleurothallis Species: Dolichopus Indigenous to Mexico
Pleurothallis Species: Gracillima Indigenous to Ecuador
Pleurothallis Species: pubescens (Mexico) Indigenous to Mexico – On right tree under top branch
Pleurothallis Species: Sarracenia Indigenous to Brazil – Extreme left, extreme front, on tip of main tree lowest branch
Gastrochilus fuscopunctatus Indigenous to Taiwan – Main tree on right, midway up
Epidendrum (Nanodes) species mini creeper green Peru – On left wall, way forward, under tiny branch
Epidendrum (Nanodes) longirepens (mini discolor) Indigenous to Peru – Main tree on trunk spreading on top branch
Dendrobium toressae Indigenous to Australia – very front branch on left
Dendrobium pachyphyllum Indigenous to Burma – Back wall upper right
Dendrobium lichenastrum small form Indigenous to Australia – Left tree front ¼ down
Bulbophyllum Species: species (mini India) Indigenous to India
Bulbophyllum Species: intersitum (odontopetalum) Indigenous to New Guinea
Dendrochilum Species: Parvulum Indigenous to Philippines
Pleurothallis Species: Allenii Indigenous to Panama
Pleurothallis Species: Corniculata Indigenous to Jamaica
Pleurothallis Species Eumecocaulo Indigenous to Panama
Pleurothallis Species: Flexuosa Indigenous to Ecuador
Pleurothallis Species: grobyi type (Ecuador) Indigenous to Ecuador
Pleurothallis Grobyi type Belize – Left wall, way forward, tiny branch ¼ down
Pleurothallis leptotifolia Indigenous to Brazil – Right wall, half down, 2/3 forward, hanging off small branch.
Pleurothallis Species: Luteola Indigenous to Brazil
Pleurothallis mathildae Indigenous to Brazil – Right wall, mid up, mid forward
Pleurothallis Species: Microphylla Indigenous to Costa Rica
Pleurothallis Species: picta (species Bolivia) Indigenous to Bolivia
Pleurothallis Species: Sonderana Indigenous to Brazil
Pleurothallis tribuloides Indigenous to Belize – Main tree triple branch, bottom branch towards front. Orange tip roots.
Condylago (Pleurothallis) rodrigoi (flexuosa) – 
Restrepia species 1 – Left wall, 2/3 down at front
Restrepia species 2 – Left tree under bottom broken branch
Restrepia lansburgii – Left tree, 1/3 down at back, under brom

Finally, I received these last night. All should be appropriate choices for vivariums.
Restrepia Species: Contorta Indigenous to Ecuador
Restrepia Species: Brachypus Indigenous to Ecuador
Maxillaria Species: Uncata Indigenous to Belize
Maxillaria Species: neophylla (attenuata) Indigenous to Ecuador
Maxillaria Species: Juergensii Indigenous to Brazil
Epidendrum (Nanodes) Species: Discolor Indigenous to Mexico
Bulbophyllum alsiosum (Phillippines) red lip
Bulbophyllum (Hapalochilus) Species: dolichoglottis (alkmaarense) Indigenous to New Guinea
Bulbophyllum Species: Tricanaliferum Indigenous to New Guinea
Bulbophyllum Species: species (mini ovali-teague type) Indigenous to: New Guinea
Bulbophyllum Species: species (mini India) Indigenous to India
Bulbophyllum Species: Sessile Indigenous to Thailand
Bulbophyllum Species: Purpurascens Indigenous to Bali
Bulbophyllum Species: Pardalotum Indigenous to: Philippines
Bulbophyllum Species: Newportii Indigenous to Australia
Bulbophyllum Species: laxiflorum (Java) Indigenous to Java
Bulbophyllum Species: lasiochilum (pallida- Burma) Indigenous to Burms
Bulbophyllum Species: Lasiochilum Indigenous to Thailand
Bulbophyllum Species: Kanburiense Indigenous to Thailand
Bulbophyllum Species: intersitum (odontopetalum) Indigenous to New Guinea
Bulbophyllum Species: immobile (cruciatum) Indigenous to New Guinea
Bulbophyllum Species: Frostii Indigenous to Vietnam
Bulbophyllum Species: Exiguum Indigenous to Australia
Bulbophyllum Species: catenulatum (red/yellow) Indigenous to Philippines
Bulbophyllum Species: Capillipes Indigenous to Thailand
Bulbophyllum Species: Ambrosia Indigenous to Vietnam
Bulbophyllum Species: alsiosum (Philippines) red lip Indigenous to Philippines
Bulbophyllum Species: (aff. Mirum Sumatra)

I'd give you pictures, but I'm tech impaired, and Dendroboard has begun turning all of my photos sideways. Until that changes, or someone can explain what's going on, and how to change it, I'll be playing on FaceBook. If you're not a jerk, you can friend me, Doug Hollister, and you can see my viv pics. I'm the Doug Hollister with a puppy on his lap...NOT the crappy country western singer.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

Dang Doug, 
I just have one viv and looking for a few I think.
Have done some reading today but I guess I'm looking more to the flowers than the overall appearance which is more important to have a great viv vs a knockout viv.
If I may ask which you recommend based on your experience to have a few in a PDF viv 24x18x24

Thanks in advanced.


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## craigrbns (Feb 1, 2016)

Pumilo,

Great info! Do you mind sharing what lights you are using with your vivs/orchids? Thanks in advance!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

If the blooms are important, I don't have the experience you need. While everything I posted has the potential to do well in a viv, some require special conditions to bloom. Some may need a rest period over winter, or a dryer period, etc, to get them to bloom. Some will bloom whenever they fell like it.
Plus, if the blooms are important, only you know what you like. For instance, I could not stop my Pleurothallis acestrophylla from blooming, if I wanted to. Their blooms, while being quite beautiful, are about 1/8" to 3/16" long, and less than an 1/8" wide. A lot of Pleuros will have very small blooms.

I have had bulbophyllums bloom for me with no manipulation, but I don't know if they all do. I THINK there are a lot of bulbos that bloom with no special conditions. Many of the bulbos have incredible blooms, and can be sizeable flowers.

Masdavelia can have nice sizeable blooms, and can bloom often. Again, I don't know if they all do, or if some need manipulation.

Restripia have, in my opinion, magnificent blooms, and at least some don't need manipulation.

I think you want to hit up Mike Rizzo at Glass Box Tropics. He works with miniature orchids, and will be more familiar with what blooms well. Plus, he can sell you divisions that are already used to vivarium conditions. Half the challenge can be getting them to adapt to our wetter conditions.

Don't even attempt orchids without passive ventilation. 
Internal fans are extremely helpful in keeping orchids.
If you are wondering if you've packed a little too much sphagnum around the roots, then you have put way too much sphagnum on. People try an orchid that's supposed to be watered 3 to 5 times a week, but they don't keep in mind that our vivs get watered AT LEAST once a day, more likely several times. If we use the same amount of sphag as is traditionally used, you'll drown and kill the roots within a week. I'm finding very, very small amounts are adequate for orchids that must be moist (not WET) at all times. Orchids that like to dry a bit, or water storing orchids with bulbs, I often get the best results with no sphagnum at all. Why so much about sphagnum? We have VERY different conditions than a greenhouse. We grow orchids differently than other orchid growers. If we copy what has been successful, we kill them. I firmly believe that 9 out of 10 vivarium orchids, fail because they have been completely drowned by a well meaning viv owner. Even remembering how little sphag I was using a few years back, I still made the mistake of using too much on my first round. I drowned the roots on a half dozen, but was able to recover every single one by pulling out the forceps and tweezers, and pulling out sphag. Catch them soon enough, and they can recover.
Another great trick I've found, is this. Traditionally, all the roots get sphag. I've begun spreading out the roots, and only covering, say, the right half of the orchid with sphagnum. If you used to much, the plant can still adapt. The other half of the roots are completely untouched by sphagnum, and stay good. The plant can then send it's roots wherever it finds sweet spots.
THINK IT THROUGH when mounting. Who ever considers what might be a foot and a half above that orchid you just put in? Not many. Not me, at least, not at first. Before you mount, turn on that mister. Sit back and watch. Water collects on branches, runs down to a downward pointing branch, or just a dip in the branch, and drips, or even runs like a faucet, down below it. Mentally mark every constant drip spot, and write down notes if you need to. Even a small amount of sphagnum used in these conditions, will always be saturated. Saturated means no air. I think we all know what no air leads to. That constantly wet spot...that's for your extremely delicate filmy ferns, or is a great spot for mosses, liverworts, and/or riccordia. Barring that, you want ZERO sphagnum on the orchid in that spot. I also find an orchid with thicker roots doesn't drop to root rot as readily.
You can also map spots where larger clumps of sphagnum may slowly release some extra water down a wall for several minutes after misting. An inch or 6 under that spot, you can mount an orchid that wants a bit more water, without risking drowning the roots with sphagnum. The extra water running down the wall there, gives it a few extra minutes to absorb some more water. Mounting an orchid, bare root, under a bromeliad, will give the same effect. Every time the mister goes, that brom fills up and slowly overflows, dribbling water down below it.
You also want to watch and plot out where the dryer spots are. On that orchid that only wants water three times a week, you might get away with it, if you keep it up high, where the mist barely reaches. Now the plant may still get misted 3 times a day, but there is so little moisture that hits it, and it dries quick enough, that it can be equivalent to 3 waterings a week. Typically, a "watering" for an orchid, means watered to saturation. If we only give it tiny bits, we can get away with a slightly dryer orchid. If an orchid can't tolerate at least 3 full waterings a week, I won't try that orchid.
The good news is, if you catch the plant soon enough, you can still get a plant with no visible good roots, to survive until the regrow roots, or throw new roots out once it starts growing a new tip or division. I'm sure I'll find differences, but for now I am finding that even if a plant does not grow "recovered" roots from the old spots, they all send out new roots right alongside that new tip or division. So far, every orchid I've witnessed grow a new tip, also sends out a new root or roots, along with the new tip.

I've never fertilized a vivarium before I started keeping orchids. I now spray each orchid every week or two, with a quarter to eighth strength diluted fish emulsion. A bottle of Alaska fish emulsion can be had a Lowes for cheap. Mix it outside. It's very rank until it's diluted. It does NOT smell up the house after spraying the dilute fish ferts. Everything is responding great. Once frogs go in, I believe I will continue to fertilize, but I'll be careful not to hit the frogs with the sprayer. It shouldn't hurt them anyway, but better safe than sorry. I've always heard that fertilizers quickly kill mosses, but haven't seen any ill effects from fish emulsion ferts on my mosses, liverworts, and riccordias.

Recap on the biggest tips. 
1) If you don't have passive ventilation, just pull your cash out of your wallet right now, and light it on fire. Chances are pretty good that you'll get the same results either way, and you'll save yourself some labor. Better yet, just send me your wallet.
2) Internal circulations fans are an amazing tool for keep orchids, and other delicate plants.
Taking care to do those 2 things properly, will open the floodgates of the plants you can keep.

Finally, I do walls, so I play with epiphytes. If what you want are flowers, you might seek out advice on Begonias. Begonias would be easier to keep. I'm not your guy for begonia advice, though. All I can say is that they don't like wet feet. Drainage is important. I'm told they can really excel in my calcium bearing clay substrate. I've also known people that would make a mound in their ABG to plant a begonia in. It drains away from it's "feet" quicker in a mound. It's the same principal as planting your cucumbers in a mound, out in your garden.

Don't forget to always use purified water for orchids, which should be a given for a vivarium or terrarium anyway. It prevents hard water stains and hard water etching of the glass. It also keeps hard water marks off of your orchids leaves, for improved photosynthesis.

In the end, all this information is nothing more than Dane has already told us. I just went into more detail for those of us newer to orchids.

Last tip, really. Andy's Orchids has more detailed tips about light levels for particular orchids, than any other resource I've found.


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## Auri (Jan 7, 2016)

I've got little orchids too. It's a dangerous hobby. They're all different, and certainly if you've got ventilation you can probably find something to fit any viv. I think orchid success is mainly about making smart choices with which plants you get and where you put them in your vivarium. Doug has given you much better tips that I would have anyway, so listen to him  

Doug if someone breaks into your house and steals all of your teeny orchids, I swear it wasn't me. Just putting that out there. 

Um. But on the other hand if you happen to find you have extra divisions lying around and want to sell or trade a batch locally? I have a few that you don't have listed there. Probably not very many because hot damn, that's a list.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

That's a boat load of info.
Drainage and watering isn't new to me but would like to know about ventilation.
There are small box fans on the market and I used many of them to cool or drawn hot air from a MH canopy over a reef tank.
But to me they are to strong to put in a Viv.
Are the different kind of cooling or circulation fans out there for Viv's?
Doug' I'm going to send you a friend request on FB, no I'm not a freak or any of that.
This Seal is more laying low for more than 12 months.
Thanks for all the Info so far, it was pretty solid and I can build my plan of attack on it.

Ben.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

craigrbns said:


> Pumilo,
> 
> Great info! Do you mind sharing what lights you are using with your vivs/orchids? Thanks in advance!


Well, I'm collecting, for my living wall, and have a few holding systems. Those aren't really vivs, have no shade, and don't need that much light. In my 40 vert viv, it's cobbled together combo of 5, 13 watt jungle dawns, and 2, Green Element 18" 6500K LED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant 10x 3W.

I am displeased with the Green Elements. Not nearly as bright as I would think they should be. 
If I could only run the Jungle Dawns, which are made up of 60 leds, but each led is only .22 watts, OR run the 2 Green Elements, with their big, 3 watt leds, I would run the Jungle Dawns. 
I've been away from the hobby for too long, and I need to research the best leds around. Open to suggestions from lighting gurus.
Most orchids don't want as much light as I thought they did before I kept them. I have 2, 55 gallon holding tanks, each with a single, 4 foot long, 5000K t5 bulb over them. I have a 75 with 2 t5s over it. If I add more, I would need to start getting imaginative and creating shaded areas.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Diesel said:


> That's a boat load of info.
> Drainage and watering isn't new to me but would like to know about ventilation.
> There are small box fans on the market and I used many of them to cool or drawn hot air from a MH canopy over a reef tank.
> But to me they are to strong to put in a Viv.
> ...


I build my own fans, with a 12v computer, box fan, and a 12v ac/dc power adapter. I currently have a 60 mm Evercool, pushing about 24 cfm, in my 40 vert. Its doing the job now, but I'll have to screen it over before I put frogs in. That will choke it down some, so before I screen it, I'll probably go up a bit in cfm. Even better would be adding a second fan, but I don't want the extra obstruction. If you run your fan 24 hours, it makes mosses and delicate things hard or impossible to keep. Most people put it on a timer, which would allow 15 minutes on, and 45 off. I prefer much shorter periods of on and off. You can't do that with a traditional timer. I use an analog, short cycle, recycle or repeat timer, available through the hydroponics industry. You can find them for around 30 bucks on Amazon. I set mine for 5 minutes on, and 15 off.
My 75 has dual, 80mm fans. I believe they are right about 30 cfm each. That one verges on overkill, but it's my receiving area for fresh orchids. A little extra there seemed like a good idea.
My 55s each have a single, 80mm, 34 cfm fan. 
Everything is on for 5, and off for 15. In nature, the wind rarely blows at a steady pace, then goes completely quite for 45 minutes. I feel the shorter cycles are just closer to the gusts you see in real life. It's working beautifully so far.
Understand we are using this fan completely internal. They do NOT draw fresh, dry air into your viv, and they don't push the humid air out. They just blow it around.
The passive vent gives you a very gradual air exchange. A passive vent is simply and unpowered vent. When you open a window in your living room, that is a passive vent. Put a fan in the window and it is a powered vent. Powered vents are much harder to balance. Personally, I'd never run a powered vent on a humid vivarium you wish to keep in the 60 to 80% humidity range.

Some shmuck did a write up on passive vents once. Let me find that for you.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63781-screen-vent-construction-how.html


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

I found a 2" fan on Ebay for $15 and if I connect that to Neptune APEX that I have laying around as I won that in a Tank of Month contest two years back but never got to it to use it as I already have two running, one on the DT and other on the frag system.
This third APEX I ws planning to use for my lights and even to great a dusk and dawn period, I might figure it out with some kind of breakout box if I can do the fan to ramp up from 0 to 100% and ramp down in a period of 5 min twice a hour or so.
But I understand that the fan needs to be installed in the Viv, kinda like a ceiling fan in a room.


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## KiraVivariums (Aug 19, 2017)

I have one that's doing really well now that I've moved it to a new place. It had about 7 leaves for 8-9 months then I moved it and it's grown the rest in a few months. 

Not 100%sure on the id, if anyone knows. The leaves are 1/2 inch and smaller with about 1/2 inch to 3/4inch stalks.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

KiraVivariums said:


> I have one that's doing really well now that I've moved it to a new place. It had about 7 leaves for 8-9 months then I moved it and it's grown the rest in a few months.
> 
> Not 100%sure on the id, if anyone knows. The leaves are 1/2 inch and smaller with about 1/2 inch to 3/4inch stalks.


Can't know for sure until you see it bloom, but it _could_ be Pleurothallis grobyi.


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## KiraVivariums (Aug 19, 2017)

> Can't know for sure until you see it bloom, but it _could_ be Pleurothallis grobyi.


Thank you pum, that's definitely the one!


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## craigrbns (Feb 1, 2016)

Pumilo said:


> I build my own fans, with a 12v computer, box fan, and a 12v ac/dc power adapter. I currently have a 60 mm Evercool, pushing about 24 cfm, in my 40 vert. Its doing the job now, but I'll have to screen it over before I put frogs in. That will choke it down some, so before I screen it, I'll probably go up a bit in cfm. Even better would be adding a second fan, but I don't want the extra obstruction. If you run your fan 24 hours, it makes mosses and delicate things hard or impossible to keep. Most people put it on a timer, which would allow 15 minutes on, and 45 off. I prefer much shorter periods of on and off. You can't do that with a traditional timer. I use an analog, short cycle, recycle or repeat timer, available through the hydroponics industry. You can find them for around 30 bucks on Amazon. I set mine for 5 minutes on, and 15 off.
> My 75 has dual, 80mm fans. I believe they are right about 30 cfm each. That one verges on overkill, but it's my receiving area for fresh orchids. A little extra there seemed like a good idea.
> My 55s each have a single, 80mm, 34 cfm fan.
> 
> ...


Pumilo - Do you cycle your fans during daylight only or 24 hrs a day? We're hoping to having better success with orchids in our new 90 gallon thumbnail tank, so Im going to give the repeated cycling a try (versus 3 longer on periods for my fan daily). We use the passive screen vents you outlined on all of our tanks with great luck, so we owe you a big thank you there. Last question, what are your misting schedules typically like? I know it can greatly vary tank to tank, but I was curious what schedule typically worked for you with your passive vents and cycling fans. Thanks again! - Craig


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I have been cycling, on for 5 minutes, and off for 15, and I run it 24/7. I'm still playing with what I feel is best for my system. I may go up to 10 on, 20 off.

When I first begain using fans, I did not cycle at all. They ran all day and all night. Most plants loved it, but I found it extremely difficult to keep my filmy fern alive, and also mosses, ricardia, and liverworts.

I think the amount of time you run your fan, is closely tied to how much ventilation you use. I think it probably makes a big difference in the size fans you run, too. More air motion would dry plants off faster, so less time running is required. Less air motion means plants dry off slower, so you want to run it longer. I think it's a bit of a balancing act.


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## craigrbns (Feb 1, 2016)

Pumilo said:


> I have been cycling, on for 5 minutes, and off for 15, and I run it 24/7. I'm still playing with what I feel is best for my system. I may go up to 10 on, 20 off.
> 
> When I first begain using fans, I did not cycle at all. They ran all day and all night. Most plants loved it, but I found it extremely difficult to keep my filmy fern alive, and also mosses, ricardia, and liverworts.
> 
> I think the amount of time you run your fan, is closely tied to how much ventilation you use. I think it probably makes a big difference in the size fans you run, too. More air motion would dry plants off faster, so less time running is required. Less air motion means plants dry off slower, so you want to run it longer. I think it's a bit of a balancing act.


How many times a day, and for how long, do you mist to keep humidity up? I know this all depends on each individual system, but I was curious what worked for you. For instance, I have a 180 gallon viv that I only mist for 15 seconds twice a day, and still run two 120mm fans for a hour each morning and evening. This tank has Kessils on it which transfer absolutely no heat to the tank. A few orchids are doing ok in this tank, but it definitely is not an orchid paradise - too many trampling luecs too. Regardless, if I mist more the tank stays too wet regardless of passive vents.

The 90 we are now trying to dial in has an evo quad that produces a lot more heat. I am still trying to figure out what works best in this tank - more frequent short mistings, or fewer longer mistings. This tank is requiring ~ 3 times more water to keep humidity levels up versus my tanks with Kessil leds. I have been running the fan in this tank 3 times a day. I am really thinking about the cycling timer after your comments to prevent my fan from drying things out too much when it runs. I think it may make it easier to dial in misting too...!!!??? So far it seems my 90 is always fluctuating between a touch too dry, or a touch too wet.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

Great info guys.
Now I might have missed this but is there a way to reduce the flow of the fan say 50%?
Instead of having on 100% 10 min and off 20 min maybe you can reduce it from 100% to 25% or for whatever you think is near perfect for setup.


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## craigrbns (Feb 1, 2016)

Yep, most controllers will let you dial it to what ever % speed you want if you hook your fan to it. The other option is the AC infinity fans I use. They have a built in low/med/high setting that you can select, plus they come with their own 110 volt adapter so they are easy to just plug and play into the timer of your choice.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

craigrbns said:


> Yep, most controllers will let you dial it to what ever % speed you want if you hook your fan to it. The other option is the AC infinity fans I use. They have a built in low/med/high setting that you can select, plus they come with their own 110 volt adapter so they are easy to just plug and play into the timer of your choice.


Any controller you recommend?


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## craigrbns (Feb 1, 2016)

I have never used one. I use the AC infinity's and just plug them into a timer. They have multiple settings low/med/high, but I have ended up leaving all of mine on high and adjusted on/off with the timer. I am probably going to try one of the repeatable timers Pumilo recommended soon, but Ill still just use my AC infinity on high and adjust the timer.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I have not done business at this shop, and I have never used this exact adapter. I chose this picture because their adjustable voltage dial, is easier to see, then the adjustable switch type that I look for. I lets you guys see what I'm talking about.

Hosa ACD477 100VAC to 240VAC Multi-Voltage AC Power Adapter, New

So simple it's ridiculous. Set to 12 volts, the 12v fan runs at full speed. Set to 9v, the fan runs at 3/4 speed. Do we have any guesses about 6v? Somewhere down around 4.5 to 3 volts, the fan may still turn...but, if you turn it off and try and restart it, it won't restart. You have reached one step lower than that particular fan should be run at. Turn it up a click, and that is your lowest speed.

Make sure you select a proper adapter. My adapter says it's current is 1300mA. Easy conversion. 1300mA is the same as 1.3 amps. What is your fan's amps? Sometimes it says on the fan. Sometimes you need to look it up online. My fan is 0.2 amps. That means my adapter can easily power my fan. It's ok for your adapter to be capable of more mA. The danger would be the other way around. If your adapter doesn't have enough juice to push that fan, there is a real fire danger. You also want at least a 10% margin of error. For instance, in my above example, being run on my 40 vert, I have juice to spare. I could power another fan. I could power several. I could power 5 of those fans, and only be at 1 amp. As you recall, my adapter even beats Nigel's amplifier. "It goes to 13". 1300mA is very capable of running 5 of these particular fans, and have 300mA left over for a safety net. 

I like to cut the universal plugs off, and hard wire my fans, making sure to leave the splice and wire nuts, outside of the moist viv. You'll notice of course, that both wires are black. One will have a thin, sometimes faint, white stripe. The white stripe is your hot wire and goes to the hot fan wire, which is usually red. 
Always 12v fans. Putting a 120v anything, inside your wet viv, is a really bad idea. Good news is, you won't be having any more bad ideas! Plus, you might win a Darwin...


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

All interesting info.
I'm going with my good friend Carlos throw some ideas around and see if we can get this adapter http://www.coralvue.com/icecap-gyre-interface-module-1562 or we need to make another with a different interface to make it work wit some of the mini fans.
If it works on pumps why wouldn't it work on fans to with a simple controller and I do have a brand new APEX still in box as backup to work in order to program two fans in a vivarium with a cross wind flow and variable flow from 0 to 100 and back to 0.
It can't be that difficult.


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## genem1948 (Dec 8, 2013)

My GOSH!!! Just look at what you started. 

Such great comments and information. I am printing and keeping this thread handy.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

HA, thanks, and yes I'm trouble all over.
I didn't realize it but yeah and that is what forums are for.
My threads are always interesting and informative in the coral world as I'm running around in the saltwater for more than 40 years.
Yes nothing related to this but this thread gave me a idea to develop a 
auto air closed loop circulation system for vivarium's.
Soon to come more, just working on the firmware to use on a controller.


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