# Terribilis ID



## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

I received these today as 3 _Phyllobates terribilis_ yellow half grown juveniles. One of the frogs immediately popped out at me as having an identity problem. I have my own suspicions but I would appreciate any opinions. These images expand to a large size if you click on them.

Frog A from above:









Frog A from the side:









Frog B from above:









Frog B from the side:









Frog C from above:









Frog C from the side:









Frog A and Frog C from above:









Frog A and Frog C from the side:


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

John,
Can U provide some pics, same camera, same lighting of the 'other' 4 Yellow terribs U have please. For comparison....

Thanks

Shawn


----------



## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

It's late now and I don't want to disturb them BUT in my opinion they looked "identical" to Frogs A and B in the photos above when they were the same age. Here are photos of the others when a month or two either side of the size/age of Frogs A-C, taken with the same camera and similarly color corrected:


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

great frogs!! they look yellow to me


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

C looks more like a bi color not a pure yellow. Just my opinion. ^^


----------



## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Hard to say definitively John, but it def. has a more bicolor look to it but could always be a weird frog.


----------



## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah, I hear you Ray. I looked at the photos for comparisons myself, and (referring to Frog C) aside from the weird head (pointy and flat), odd proportions, green overtone on the legs, and low granularity on the legs, I now see that the body of the frog is incredibly smooth compared to any other terribilis I can find. Click on the images of Frogs A, B and C for the large versions and compare the granularity and lack of granularity between these guys.


----------



## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

johnc said:


> Yeah, I hear you Ray. I looked at the photos for comparisons myself, and (referring to Frog C) aside from the weird head (pointy and flat), odd proportions, green overtone on the legs, and low granularity on the legs, I now see that the body of the frog is incredibly smooth compared to any other terribilis I can find. Click on the images of Frogs A, B and C for the large versions and compare the granularity and lack of granularity between these guys.


I hate to play the looks like game (though it's not going to stop me) but I agree with you about the granulation on the legs. I raised a lot of Phyllobates years ago and those legs just don't look right, along with the head shape.

Reminds me of the time Rod Mitchell and I went to pick up a load of Gold terribilis from Germany at O'Hare. When we popped the crate at customs there was a terrible sinking sensation in my stomach when I saw the legs. Those gold terribilis are now called gold bicolor .

An important question: Do you have reason other than physical appearance to think these may not be the frogs you thought they were?


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I don't know a lot about terribilis, but it may just be a different coloration than normal. 
I did notice a couple frogs seem to have cuts/nicks on their head, maybe from ventilation holes that were punched through the top of their shipping container, which may have put sharp plastic edges facing inwards where the frogs could have become injured.


----------



## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Chris Miller said:


> An important question: Do you have reason other than physical appearance to think these may not be the frogs you thought they were?


Hehe. This is the most active terribilis I've encountered. "He" is always moving about, climbing on things, etc. He occasionally puffs himself up like he wants to call (he's too small to be doing that imho). All out of character compared to the 5 yellow terribs I've had for the past year. And out of character with the other 2 "terribs" he arrived with. 

I've another physical one for you. Compare the size of the limbs/feet in the underside photo of Frog A with Frog C. My other line of terribs have the proportionality of Frog A.


----------



## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

I was thinking more along the lines of the supplier of the frogs in question. But the behavioral stuff is also interesting.


----------



## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Chris Miller said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of the supplier of the frogs in question. But the behavioral stuff is also interesting.


Do you mean do I trust the seller?


----------



## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

johnc said:


> Do you mean do I trust the seller?


Yes. That's exactly what I mean. Obviously, you are questioning the frogs, but is the seller someone who you trust? I'vepicked up a few questionable frogs from good people before when they were just passing stuff along (quasi-flipping). Also has happened when a breeder has a lot of similar species in the water as tads at the same time.


----------



## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

It's someone I had never dealt with before. They've been good enough to take the frog back but I will have to think carefully before pulling the trigger on another purchase.


----------

