# KarmaPolice's development & vivarium build w/prices (Pic Heavy)



## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

Hello everyone, 
I'm the typical lurker and researcher here on Dendroboard and am now going to attempt my first vivarium build for my first dart frogs. To make it informational or helpful for other beginners like myself I decided to contribute a bit more and add my costs, links that helped me and my frogs development along with my build.
These prices, purchased items and setup are all my experiences and not necessarily the correct method. I have rounded the prices and have priced everything as a whole even if only half was used.

Shall we begin?
I appologize now for the cell phone pics, but will upgrade the quality once everything is finished

*-Tadpole Setup-*
Three Azureus tads, around a couple weeks old I believe.
-I will be using the no water change approach, adding indian almond leaves for tannins, duckweed/java moss, and topping off with RO water.
-I feed a pinch of ground up fish flakes every 3 days or so, if there is an excess of food buildup after a while I would siphon it out with the turkey baster.
Original setup they were transported in.









*Finalized tadpole setup costs*: $53.25 +/-
Tuber ware container= $3.00
Water pump= $12.00
Small aquarium heater= $11.00
Thermometer= $2.50
Indian almond leaves (pack of 20)= $6.00 (Thanks to Erik S.)
Reverse Osmosis (RO) water= 2.00 (for 5 gallons) can be found at aquarium/hydroponics stores
-5 gallon jug (for RO water)= $9.00
-Turkey baster= $4.25
-Tropical fish food flakes= $3.50
-duckweed= already had
-java moss= came with tads








Poked small holes in side of container to allow small water flow, and added rocks to the bottom for support

*-Tadpole Development-*
Pictures taken at approximately 1 week intervals, I will try and update accordingly

*Tadpole #1*
May 14th








May 20th Added piece of indian almond leaf to cup








May 27th








June 3rd








June 12th








June 18th








June 24th








July 1st









*Tadpole #2*

May 14th








May 20th








May 27th








June 3rd








June 12th








June 19th Popped out front legs
June 22nd 








June 25th (Out of the water the next day)








July 1st (Named him Crowe)









_*Tadpole #3*_

Unfortunately tadpole #3 died on June 6th. He never grew and found very small white worms in his container, in which I did a complete water change on the rest of the tads just in case.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Nice documentation. I have 6 young Leucs and look forward to the day that they may start breeding. Threads like this are very informative and visual. Thank you. Sorry to hear about tad #3.
Thanks, Chris.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

I am working with a 20gallon horizontal tank in which I will try my best to incorporate a:
-False bottom
-Water feature (accessible)
-Air shaft w/ fans (accessible)
-'Great Stuff' (GS) background 
-Silicone & peat moss blend with Toulene substitute thinner
-Driftwood and fake roots.
-Custom living hinge glass lid

*Vivarium Build*

_*Build Costs:*_ $142.00+/- (in progress)

_False Bottom:$28.75+/-_
Egg Crate= $13.00 (in the lighting section of home depot/lowes)
Zip ties 4" (pack of 40)= $2.25 x2
PVC couplings= $0.20 x6
Weed blocker= I had some (normally $10.00)

FB (False bottom) layout along with driftwood and other positioning ideas








PVC couplings notched so no water gets trapped in them, and then secured with zip ties to support the FB








Built vertical shaft for water pump and covered FB in weed blocker air shaft general position shown









_Fan Unit: $42.00+/-_ 
Fan 40mm, 6.8cfm, 28dec= $6.00 x2
Power adapter= $9.00
Y connecter 2to1= $3.00
Fan speed controller= $7.00
Adapter, dc 3 pin (5volts) to a 2 pin 12v plug: $3.00
Corrugated plastic board= $4.00 (its like cardboard but made out of plastic)
Clear silicone (small)= $4.00 (used to seal the insides and coat with peat moss)

Inspiration: Grimm's air duct work The Peninsula - Epic Vivarium Duct Work - YouTube

Formed two shafts in the same structure to each hold a 40mm fan horizontally with ledge/lips to keep it in place on the inside. Fan blows out through the top the left shaft blowing towards the front glass, and the right shaft blowing towards the opposite end of the tank. Has removable top








Openings for fan unit covered in a screen so no frogs will be able to get in, pump tube for water feature in place. Back and sides of tank coated in silicone to look better from the outside instead of seeing the GS foam.










_Custom Lid: $16.50+/-_ (with 1 tube of black silicone)
Glass for lid= $7.50 (home depot doesn't cut glass, lowes does it for free & surprisingly cheaper than local glass shops )
ceramic knob for lid= $2.50

Inspiration: Grimm http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/57871-custom-silicone-hinged-glass-top.html

Work in progress









_Background: $54.75+/-_(with 1 less tube of silicone used for other things)
Greatstuff foam (for less than 1")= 4.25 x2
Greatstuff foam (for larger than 1")= $5.00 (should have bought 2 of these instead of the other GS foam)
Black silicone= $6.50 x5 (Lowes didn't have any) used for background, fake roots, glass lid, and my favorite experiments!
Caulk gun= $2.00
Industrial maintenance thinner= $9.00 (Toulene is outlawed from California from what I've been told)
Peat moss (organic)= $4.25 (home depot didn't have any)

2 cans of GS foam (1 too many, should have used only the greater than 1" stuff) foam has been carved back to general thickness and curvature desired.








Driftwood water feature/spout - pump tube is inserted and siliconed into place along with adding additional silicone to hard to reach areas. (tank is on its side)








Carved out part of corner inserted driftwood, sanded rest of foam and foamed everything to final likings and then carved excess foam off of driftwood
























Method used for coating background: Grimm "The mixture is 2 parts silicone and 1 part toluene, mixed together first. Then I added 1-1.5 parts peat moss. Im actually loving this method. Way better then just plain silicone and peat. It can be painted on, and doesnt skin over quick like plain silicone. Plus if for whatever reason all the surface peat falls off, it has a coloured textured base coat with peat embedded into it anyways"








Coated BG in silicone/peat/thinner (will let air out/fan out for a few weeks)

























Possible root structure layout, which I will cover in silicone/peat 
Inspiration: Raf http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/57563-pics-my-new-constructed-vivarium.html









Updated: 7/7/12
This is my progress so far, I will add pictures as progress continues. Please tell me if you guys have any suggestions, or questions, or if I skipped over anything.
I have planned a little of how to plant it, but any good ideas are welcome.


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## snake54320 (Dec 16, 2011)

Good job!
I would of shaped a little bit more the foam. I would see lots of miss in this tank with a few ferns. On the sides, some bromeliads.


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## dendrorani (Jan 30, 2009)

Very nice setup. I like the way the wood is coming down on the ground!
Keep up the good work.

Rani


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## The Dude1 (Jul 5, 2012)

Tank looks awesome! I love what you're doing with it.


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## cowboy232350 (Mar 14, 2011)

Nice to see the tank coming along so well looks like you have done your research. Hope to see you at the meets!


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## mcaiger53 (Jan 3, 2011)

Welcome, nice to have you aboard. 
It looks like you have done your research, and are doing a great job. tad/froglet #2 looks a bit off to me. I have never seen a azures morph out with any yellow or green on it? I have produced a bunch if azures from a couple pairs and haven't seen anything other than blue & black. Many different variations of shades and patterns, but never this. Is there any chance that the person you got them from accidently gave you a sip tad or something else by mistake? its not hard to do, I don't really label my tads. I would lik to see a current pic if possible. 
Also, your tank is coming along well. I would only have changed one thing. I would thin out the BG a bit. It does look good, bit the amount of space it takes up probably leaves you with less floor space than a 10g. It will work great for a grow out, but personally I try to give adult tincs more floor space. (Maybe you plan on giving them a larger tank when grown, I could have missed it)
Otherwise, you are doing a fantastic job! Good luck,
Mike


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

mcaiger53 said:


> Welcome, nice to have you aboard.
> It looks like you have done your research, and are doing a great job. tad/froglet #2 looks a bit off to me. I have never seen a azures morph out with any yellow or green on it? I have produced a bunch if azures from a couple pairs and haven't seen anything other than blue & black. Many different variations of shades and patterns, but never this. Is there any chance that the person you got them from accidently gave you a sip tad or something else by mistake? its not hard to do, I don't really label my tads. I would lik to see a current pic if possible.
> Also, your tank is coming along well. I would only have changed one thing. I would thin out the BG a bit. It does look good, bit the amount of space it takes up probably leaves you with less floor space than a 10g. It will work great for a grow out, but personally I try to give adult tincs more floor space. (Maybe you plan on giving them a larger tank when grown, I could have missed it)
> Otherwise, you are doing a fantastic job! Good luck,
> Mike


I wouldn't worry about it not being a azureus, theres been a couple threads lately about froglets morphing out 'yellow'. They seem to color up and be just a normal blue frog.

edit: forgot to post the link.. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/53562-azureus-froglet-yellow-ish-head.html


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## erik s (Apr 12, 2010)

Dizzle21 said:


> I wouldn't worry about it not being a azureus, theres been a couple threads lately about froglets morphing out 'yellow'. They seem to color up and be just a normal blue frog.


Yea...maybe you should check with the breeder...those people that breed azureus shouldn't be trusted!!!.....WAIT A MINUTE!!! That person is ME!!!.....
But for sure, they are azureus...Nice work on this thread Duncan!!!


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## Dale D (Apr 22, 2012)

I just had my glass lids made and was wondering about having some kind of handles attached to them.
How are you attaching the ceramic knob to your lid?


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your support and comments.

Snake54320: Yes I plan to have moss everywhere if possible, and ferns too. I usually find moss,ferns,water,rocks,wood everywhere in the wild very beautiful.

mcaiger53: The tank is a little crowded with just the foam and will be more-so with plants, but maybe that's just the outcome of over foaming for my first time. I'm sure I will be like most of you out there and wont be able to settle with 1 tank and will need to build more which might make this one a grow tank, who knows. I included a recent pic of 'Crowe' to show that he is filling out in color.



> Yea...maybe you should check with the breeder...those people that breed azureus shouldn't be trusted!!!


I'll think about it, the guy I got it from was pretty shifty....Thank you Erik for jump starting this addiction 



Dale D said:


> I just had my glass lids made and was wondering about having some kind of handles attached to them.
> How are you attaching the ceramic knob to your lid?


I honestly didn't look too many places, but didn't see any 'stick-on' handles. maybe a craft store...however I ended up skipping trying to use a screw which meant drilling the glass because that would have cost me about $25 around here for just the hole itself at a glass shop. So I just used an epoxy mix, pic below.

*Development*
Tad 1 - July 9th








"Tad 2" / now Froglet (Crowe) - July 9th









*Roots*
I used a natural twine that I cut to varying lengths and wrapped together using fishing line, I thoroughly coated in silicone and then pressed the peat moss into it and then let dry
I positioned the roots and using custom 'U' shaped wire and staples that I hand pushed in to hold in place while I siliconed spots behind it and covered in peat again, then once dried removed the pins.

















*Custom lid *
When using grimm's method, I highly recommend unsticking the tape very well beforehand since I had tears in mine the first time around and had to re-do it. As for the handle it seems like a strong bond with the JB-weld and I will update if that changes.

















Since I used the thinner/silicone/peat method, for the last week I have been airing out the tank and keeping a fan on it for usually 12 hours a day. There is still a odor of the thinner if i put my head inside so I'm hoping that will be gone in a week or so. 
I am going to wait another week or two, depending on my patience before I test the water feature and cycle the tank with some water, start filling in the substrate, water feature area, and (cleaned) plants, all to finish off with a nice CO2 bombing.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Tank Is coming out Amazing! You can definitely tell when someone does there homework. Great build i'll be tagging along.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

-Update-​
*Development*
Tad 1 
7/15/12








7/22/12









Froglet - Crowe
7/15/12








7/22/12









*Planted Tank​**Water Feature*
- I set up the water feature pump (tight fit into shaft) and connected the two water hose lines with a drip line attachment. The drip line piece isn't meant for this and could be a better fit in which I will buy some type of hose clamp/zip tie for.
Cost:$5.00
Vinyl tubing = $3.00 for 10ft
Drip Line valve attachment = $2.00
*Fans*
- I purchased stronger quieter fans for the air circulation unit, with the air shaft that I built I can barely feel the air coming out with these new fans but they were the strongest I could find for the size and without being too loud (over 28dBA), so I figured a little quiet air circulation is better than loud fans with a little more air.
::Spire fans:: 8.25cfm / 23dBA Spire Fan 40x40x20mm 3pin #SP04020S1M3 (Special)
_Cost:$17.75
Fan = $4.00 x2 + $9.75 shipping_
*Substrate*
Costs: $18.00
ABG mix = $5.00 x2 (thanks Mikembo)
Oak leaf litter = $8.00 (thanks Bonnie)

*-Plants-* and approximate locations $126.00 +/-
(Forgive any miss-spellings and incorrect titles)
_*Ferns*_
Polypodium Vaccifolium= *right hand wall (thanks Epiphyte/Carlos)
Hemionitis Arifolia / Heart fern = $4.00 *front, center, ground
Microgramma Piloselloide = $4.00 *front, left, ground
Bolbitis Heterodita = $6.00 *spread over background in small clumps
Microsorum Linguiforme= $6.00 *back, center, ground
*Orchids*
Sarcochilus Hartmannii = $16.00 *front, left, wall
Dendrochilum Wenzelii = $15.00 *back, left corner, ground
Neofinetia Falcata = $15.00 *back, right corner, mounted over driftwood
Bulbophyllum Alagense = $16.00 *back, left, top corner mounted on wall
Ludisia (Haemania) discolor alba = $18.00 *back, right, corner under driftwood
*Bromeliad*
Neoregelio ? (bromeliad) = $2.00 *back, center, wall
Neo? Choquia Linda = $5.00 *back, center wall mounted
Neo? Ampullacea = $5.00 *front, right, wall mounted
*Moss*
Live spagnum = $10.00 *small spots spread over back wall, under bulbophyllum and broms
Java moss = *hanging on water feature & on driftwood
*more moss in the mail*
*Vines*
Aeschynanthus tricolor = *center, back wall hidden
*Other*
Fittonia verschaffeltii (silver net plant) = $4.00 *back, center, ground

Planted pics:
































inside left side








inside right side









-I have since added a couple magnolia leaves and some round seed pods which I think I will replace with some new ones I found today that look more tropical. Suggestions on amount and placement of leaf litter?
-I have seeded with some springtails and just waiting on some dwarf whites and greys to come in the mail. Mold has started to appear quite suddenly and I'm hoping the springs will do the trick to help control it on the water feature.
-I want to get more small ferns and mosses to place on the back wall hang on the wood/driftwood.
-Going to wait probably another month or more until "tad#1" is oow for a while and introduce both froglets to the tank at the same time. It will give me time to fully seed the tank with springs/iso's and get rid of a lingering smell from the build that is still there.

::Any comments, questions, suggestions, feedback for my first build would be much appreciated::

-Duncan


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## ghostpilot (Dec 29, 2011)

That is NICE! Very well done, sir.


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## highvoltagerob (Apr 14, 2012)

Looks great! I love the updates


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## cbosquez (May 24, 2012)

Looks great! Gives me a few ideas for my leucs new home.


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## aurvrrat (Jul 23, 2011)

I love your detail. Thanks! Keep up the awesome work. Also seeing the cost at each step is really nice. It's always a pain to start a project and get in too deep to turn back but end up spending more than u had planned.


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## wetpiggirl (Apr 27, 2010)

This is a very nicely documented build. 
Great pics as well. Awesome design style. Well done!

Pig


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

Thank you all, I am trying to document it well in one way or another to give a better understanding of what I'm doing, and help others.

Seeded some dwarf grey isopods yesterday thanks to Home - Dart Frogs Etc. thanks guys.
I will update once ive done more and received more items.
Thanks again everyone and dendroboard for all the information and help.

-Duncan


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

nice build and a great thread. i wish i could have the attention to detail you have here.


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## Lu-05 (Aug 5, 2012)

wow that's amazing!


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

Great looking tank!
I like having feeding stations that I can remove and clean easily.
(like Monkey Pods for that natural look)

Since you're giving your tank about a month to settle in, look into cycling the water. It'll do so by itself and it looks like your pump drips water past a clump of Java moss which will act as a natural filter. If you have access to an aquarium water test kit, check the water before adding frogs just in case.

Water features are awesome - if planned out correctly. If you ever get into breeding, they'll use the water areas for tad deposits but also so dad can absorb water to take to the egg laying site.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*Update:11/20/12*

I have decided to let things grow, accomodate or be replaced before I posted an update from my last post. I have been busy and haven't been able to keep as detailed account for the tank as before.
I have added lights, new orchids, and some inhabitants that I received from SCADS and elsewhere. Unfortunately my froglet in the grow out tank died and am unsure of the cause. 

*-Frogs-*
2x dendrobates azureus around 8 months old
1x dendrobates Azureus around 1 month old

*-Lights-*
20" & 10" Hi Output LED light bar from Light Your Reptiles
LED accent light strip from Fry's Electronics (secured with silicone underneath the front top lip of the tank)

*Updated*
*-Plants-* and approximate locations 
(Forgive any miss-spellings and incorrect titles)
*Ferns*
Hemionitis Arifolia / Heart fern = front, center, ground
Microgramma Piloselloide = front, left, ground (can anyone verify?)
Microsorum Linguiforme= back, center, ground
Microgramma vacciniifolia= back right, on top of driftwood (can anyone verify?)
*Orchids*
pleurothallis = back, center wall
masdevallia = back, right top corner
Dendrochilum Wenzelii = back, left corner, ground
Neofinetia Falcata = Left wall hanging with vines
Bulbophyllum Alagense = back, left, top corner (died back, but coming back slowly)
Ludisia (Haemania) discolor alba = right, corner under driftwood (loving the spot and growing like crazy)
*Bromeliad*
Neoregelio = back, left, wall mounted between branches ( ID?)
Neo. Ampullacea = back, center, wall mounted
*Tillandsia*
No.ID. Tillandsia = front, right, top corner
*Moss*
Live spagnum = $10.00 *small spots spread over back wall, under bulbophyllum and broms
Java moss = *hanging on water feature & on driftwood

*Tank growth:*
fts








left side
















right side









Plants:
Tillandsia, can anyone ID?








Microgramma Piloselloide, can anyone verify?








Neofinetia Falcata








Jewel Orchid and java moss taking over the waterfall area










*Frogs:*
newest added froglet









'Kickstand' ... you will find out why he is called so








Now you see why his name is appropriate









'Twinkle Toes'

















Let me know what you guys think of the setup so far and its new inhabitants. It has been really fun setting up this tank and watching it grow, and it will only get better with time. 
I have been slacking on the plant names as you can see, any help to ID them would be appreciated.


Just as a teaser, here is my next project that I am working on. I still have some more construction to do on the tank itself, and am waiting on a light and more plants.









here is a shot of most of its future inhabitants
Ménage à trois anyone?


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Kickstand is awesome!! Nice enclosure but sorry he just stole the show bud.. Is that jusg a long extra toe?


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## snake54320 (Dec 16, 2011)

In love with the "cork" tank ! Really great !


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## poet2dagger (Nov 7, 2010)

Did you use foam to secure the cork?


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## topart (Oct 17, 2012)

Great looking finished tank. Very much like what I want to do with a 65 gallon. The new build looks intriguing. Hope to see the finished tank soon,


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Kickstand is dope! Nice tank


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

TheCoop said:


> Kickstand is awesome!! Nice enclosure but sorry he just stole the show bud.. Is that jusg a long extra toe?


Yeah he steals the show when I am there and cracks me up all the time as he comes to the front of the glass and shows off. Yeah it seems to be a dwarfed arm with an attached single toe/toepad.



poet2dagger said:


> Did you use foam to secure the cork?


Yes, for the new tank I had a cured layer of black silicone and foamed the background and pressed the two cork park panels into it so it would fill up the negative space behind the curved panels.

I think I will be making this into a 'Cork pod tree' with all ferns...or at least mostly ferns. I am finally getting my hands on more thanks to recent deals.

I want to hook up some film canisters on the walls, up high. I am having trouble thinking of how I can do it with the side of the tank siliconed. Can anyone suggest a strategy of securing them to the wall or from the cork or point me in the direction of a thread since I'm sure one has been brought up?


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

I like...but I hate photobucket sometimes... UGH!

So now that I edited a setting where it doesn't auto rotate the pics, and I probably rotated some (upright) myself, they are now almost all unavailable.

As for my builds, you can find my Fern only, cork tree build here, and again the first build pics are unavailable due to the same issue. At least the planted photos are still up and that's what matters  .

As for this build I will update when I get some more plant growth, or have added enough new plants and switched things around to warrant a new post of pictures.

Thanks everyone that has been interested.


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Your build is awesome. Next time use imgur to post the photos and you won't have to worry about them not showing up ever again


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*KarmaPolice: Update*

UPDATE:

I don't remember what I had posted last time since all the pictures were removed. Here are some quick cell pics of the tank filling in fairly well. 










My frog being camera shy
























Coloring up nicely 
































FTS









As you can see from the first pictures, a lot of plants have been replaced or moved around. I have turned off the water feature since the driftwood was breaking down too quickly and have filled in the 'water' area. With moss growing most placed I'm pretty happy so far with the turnout of my first tank and will only be looking to change out the leggy peperomia growing on the back wall.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*Sale: KarmaPolice's development & vivarium build w/prices (Pic Heavy)*

Looks like I will be unfortunately getting out of the hobby and will be looking to sell this tank. Sale thread can be found here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/225353-karmapolces-getting-out-trade-sale-frogs-tanks-plants-more.html

Here are some quick cell phone photos I have taken to show the most recent progression of this tank:


























I hope everyone enjoyed this first tank and learning experience as I did, and hope that the tank and frogs find a good home as well.


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