# Finally managed to snag a good photo of these buggers



## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

So i have been seeing these around my chazuta tank every now and then, killing them with fire whenever given the chance. Is my micro fauna gonna be screwed with these things squriming around the tank?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

look for the threads: nemerteens


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

I have looked at them. But I cant tell whether its a nematode or nemerteran. And I always forget which one is bad.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

It looks like a nemertean.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Looks like a Nemertean. They seem to decimate springtail populations, but many have reported that their isopods still do ok. I've seen reports of both dwarf white, and dwarf purple, living and breeding fine with Nemerteans in the viv.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/identification-forum/78350-what.html


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

I got some tanks w tons of them in there. are they good for the tank or begin a campaign to eliminate them. if tanks are better off without them how should one attack them.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

brad0608 said:


> I got some tanks w tons of them in there. are they good for the tank or begin a campaign to eliminate them. if tanks are better off without them how should one attack them.


Make sure yours are not nematodes before you attack your tank. Nematodes are fine. Nemerteans eat microfauna and just plain gross me out


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

What are some obvious differences between the two. This one is reddish orange, with a darker head that points around like a swaying finger.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

dylanserbin said:


> What are some obvious differences between the two. This one is reddish orange, with a darker head that points around like a swaying finger.


That is one way to tell the difference. A nemertean looks and behaves exactly as you described. 

On the other hand, the nematodes in my tanks are very small and white.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

dylanserbin said:


> What are some obvious differences between the two. This one is reddish orange, with a darker head that points around like a swaying finger.


I can't tell you the scientific differences, but at a hobbyist's level, Nemerteens are pinkish to reddish orange, with a head that points around like a swaying finger! Every time I've seen somebody here capture a picture, they seem to be more solitary, whereas Nematodes are often found in groups. You can see clusters of a dozen or more Nematodes on a clutch of bad eggs sometimes.
The Nematodes, we commonly get in our vivs look more like a partially translucent, white thread. They are smaller and more delicate. The Nematodes we find in our vivs are generally harmless and sometimes even beneficial in processing waste, and can even help with some plant disease.

Nemerteans are the Devil himself in physical form. Eventually, left unchecked, they can eliminate every springtail in the viv and will even compete with your frogs for flies. Left unchecked, the population will only rise. Still, some have reported that they don't seem to bother the isopods. Somebody reported a bad infestation of Nemeteans that eliminated all springtails, but did not touch the thousands of Dwarf Purple Isopods in his viv. It was an Oophaga viv and he has no troubles with froglets finding plenty of isopods to feed on. I cannot remember who it was, but I remember it was coming from someone knowledgeable and experienced.

The best form of eradication is prevention. They usually come in on plants, so be fanatical about washing your plants and removing as much dirt from the roots as is humanly possible. Better yet. Leave the plant on the windowsill and ONLY USE FANATICALLY WASHED CUTTINGS. Wash it, soak it for 15 minutes to fully hydrate it, soak it in 10% bleach/90% water for 10 minutes. (*TEN FOR TEN)* 10% bleach for 10 minutes. Wash it again to remove the bleach and you are ready to plant. Some prefer to add a bit of DeChlor in the final wash to make sure any bleach is inert. I usually just rinse the heck out of it. 
I'm going to regret saying this as I will probably get my very first Nemertean the moment I mention it, but I have cared for more than a few vivs over the years. I am a total nutcase about washing my plants, and I have never found a single Nemertean in any of my vivs. The day will come, I know it will, but I think this is some pretty good evidence on how they get into your viv. 
I'll also say this, I dry my leaf litter for many months and throw it in without boiling, baking, or bleaching, and this has NOT introduced any Nemerteans. I don't sterilize ABG mix for vivs, and I don't sterilize ghost wood or cork bark either. None of those things has ever brought in a Nemetean.

So how do you eliminate them once they are in there? Pull out your frogs. Get in your car. Drive. Don't look back. The FBI may be able to help you with a new identity in a protected location.
Seriously though, it won't be easy. There are some experiments in biological control, but I haven't heard any great results that we can easily duplicate yet. You would have to pull EVERYTHING and scrap it. When you are down to a completely empty viv, you can try bleaching it. 
Someone is going to ask, _"Can't I keep the ghost wood if I bake it?"_. NO! If you don't have a full Autoclave, they can survive at the center of the wood. _"OK, but what about the plants? You said I could take cuttings, right?"_ NO! We take every precaution we can, and the plants are the most likely transfer. Why go to this big effort and risk using something you know is risky? 

Hey Kris, can we get your input here? Didn't you try this and they still came back? I'm thinking it was you, and Ed said that they (or their eggs) can still be down between the glass and a loose bit of silicone? Did he have a suggestion for that?

One more thing as far as the differences between the two go. I have never seen a harmless Nematode lift it's head and sway around as if looking for something.


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

well.. all I really have to say is...


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Hey Kris, can we get your input here? Didn't you try this and they still came back? I'm thinking it was you, and Ed said that they (or their eggs) can still be down between the glass and a loose bit of silicone? Did he have a suggestion for that?


Well let's see. I had nemerteans in a 26 bow front, grossing me out and eating my bugs. I emptied and cleaned the tank. Filled the bottom 1/4 of the tank with bleach water and then used that water and a wash cloth and a scrubby brush to clean the tank and (I thought) the silicone. Decked it out for my tree frogs (all new everything in side) and, ta da, nemerteans.

This time I emptied it out, filled it to the brim with very strong bleach water. Scrubbed it, trying to scrape under the rim and around the silicone, and left it baking outside for weeks or so.

The wood inside was really nice so I soaked it, boiled it, baked it, boiled and baked again. Something like that. Used it in a new tank for the tree frogs with nary a nemertean in site. 

The 26g bow front was made into a tank for my Lorenzo and have yet to see a nemertean.

Although, I think flamethrower would be less work.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks Kris. So there is hope but you must be diligent. 
Oh, and Napalm is faster. I still like checking into the Witness Protection Program.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I had nemerteans, I even saw them attacking microfauna on a few occasions, then I started seeing tiny little snails, and I haven't seen nemerteans since... I'd love to get a snail ID to see if it was my imagination or if the snails are predatory.


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

Snails you say? What did they look like? I have small ramshorn snails in my tank. Not to worried about them.


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

The picture on the first page is a nemertean. The main difference that I've learned between nematodes and nemerteans is that the latter has a proboscus that they use to impale their prey. This is the "swinging arm" that you guys have been describing earlier, they can lift it off of the glass/substrate as well. They are actively hunting unlike that of a nematode that's more meandering. Invest in a jeweler's loupe and take a closer look.

If they did decimate an entire springtail population, would it be possible to fill the tank with C02 to kill them and then repopulate with springtails afterwards?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

dylanserbin said:


> Snails you say? What did they look like? I have small ramshorn snails in my tank. Not to worried about them.


Little yellow/clear spirals


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Derek Benson said:


> If they did decimate an entire springtail population, would it be possible to fill the tank with C02 to kill them and then repopulate with springtails afterwards?


I have some doubts as to how effective this would be since they are a soil invertebrate and those tend to be resistent to CO2 toxicity (unless maintained for several days and a really good displacement of all of the air from the tank. The species we seem to see most frequently may be one that also form a resting cocoon which is resistent to desisication and maybe resistent to CO2 poisoning. 

See the links in this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/identification-forum/78465-nemertean-2.html 

Ed


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## mora (Nov 5, 2009)




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## mora (Nov 5, 2009)




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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have nightmares, now.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

thought these were small leeches. When i first started seeing them, i caught one. I placed it into a cup of water and it swam, so flushing it was not a good idea. I then placed it in a cap of pure clorox and it died quickly.

I have them in one tank that has no livestock. I actually don't mind them. They skeeve me out, but i was having a gnat problem (im talking 100's). Since these guys appeared i have not seen a single gnat. BUTTT then i found 3 small centipedes in a plant shippent and put them in with the Nemerteans and on 2 different occasions i have seen the centipedes attacking and they seem to be feeding on them. This was last week and i haven't seen one since. (they usually come out onto the glass at night like clockwork. I saw a few , then less, now none).


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I don't think I would have let that thing ejaculate its innards on my hand lol. Interesting lil creature.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I just went back to reread Pumilo's post about getting rid of these things...I had an unused viv that was fully landscaped, no frogs for about a year...had to put a frog in because it was getting picked on. When I first used that tank, it had nemerteans......but didn't see anything for a very, very long time. Long story short, now I see baby nemerteans....damnit. If I take the frog out...tear the viv apart, 10% bleach all the oakleaf ivy, and the few other plants that I'd like to save...will this keep the things from being transmitted to a new setup, in a brand new tank???


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pull the plants you want to save, wash them well and pot them up and keep them at room conditions. Once new growth has started you should be able to take clean cuttings from the plants since room conditions will keep any nemerteans down in the pots. I have a suspicion that the resting cocoon that some can form is also resistent to bleach. 

Some comments 


Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Ugh....that oakleaf ficus grows so darn slowly....maybe I'll try the bleach treatment and set up a growtank....if I take cuttings, would the cocoon stage "spread/hatch" and become a nemertean worm once put into another viv-like environment with the typical springs, flies, etc.??


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Judy S said:


> Ugh....that oakleaf ficus grows so darn slowly....maybe I'll try the bleach treatment and set up a growtank....if I take cuttings, would the cocoon stage "spread/hatch" and become a nemertean worm once put into another viv-like environment with the typical springs, flies, etc.??


What I would do is soak the oakleaf in bleach water and then set it up in a test tank. Put in some substrate and microfauna. See if the nemerteans come out to eat.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

in the middle of the night I got to pondering about Nemerteans...am going to go online and see about where the cocoons might be located. If they are in the soil, that would help to eliminate transferring them by taking off all soil, rinsing, bleaching, and replanting in new substrate in a growout tank.. However, if the cocoons are in the leaf axils and such, then bleaching would help, but the only way to eliminate them is making a cutting. From what Ed posts, even that may not be enough...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There isn't a lot of information on the terrestrial nemerteans. 


Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I perhaps misunderstood...is the cocoon stage in the soil, or in the above ground growth?? Ed, you mentioned that perhaps the bleach would not kill some of the cocoons... Not to beat a subject to death, but your suggestion to take plants out, clean, repot outside a viv, (room temps), take cuttings, replant...so where are the cocoons in this scenario?? I'm a hard-headed ADD, very unscientifically oriented, so I like to pin things down...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Judy S said:


> I perhaps misunderstood...is the cocoon stage in the soil, or in the above ground growth?? Ed, you mentioned that perhaps the bleach would not kill some of the cocoons... Not to beat a subject to death, but your suggestion to take plants out, clean, repot outside a viv, (room temps), take cuttings, replant...so where are the cocoons in this scenario?? I'm a hard-headed ADD, very unscientifically oriented, so I like to pin things down...


Since the nemerteans are not confined to the soil and can be found in any accceptable substrate (which could be moss, tight crevices on plants (say where the leaves overlap on a bromeliad)), as a conservative method, you would have to include them as a potential sites for a resting cocoon. 

As I noted above, I suspect that the cocoon is going to resistent to bleach since to kill the worm, the contact time is going to have to be long enough to dissolve the cocoon before it can contact the nemertean. Since the bleach prevents water loss, it will prevent contact in the other direction..... This contact time is probably going to be at least the same length of time required to damage or kill the plant materials. 

If you take the plants out, clean and repot them and then only use new growth. You are going to avoid the areas 
1) where cocoons would have been deposited (since they won't be on the new growth)
2) house humidity levels are not going to be conducive to the nemerteans wandering around everywhere which would either 
a) keep them in the resting cocoon
b) keep them in the moist soil of the plant. 

This is simply a conservative and pragmatic method to avoid transferring them to the new enclosures. 

some comments 

Ed


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Pumilo said:


> Nemerteans are the Devil himself in physical form. Eventually, left unchecked, they can eliminate every springtail in the viv and will even compete with your frogs for flies. Left unchecked, the population will only rise. Still, some have reported that they don't seem to bother the isopods. Somebody reported a bad infestation of Nemeteans that eliminated all springtails, but did not touch the thousands of Dwarf Purple Isopods in his viv. It was an Oophaga viv and he has no troubles with froglets finding plenty of isopods to feed on. I cannot remember who it was, but I remember it was coming from someone knowledgeable and experienced.


I think that was my Escudo tank, nemertean city, but I'm still raising froglets in there without adding any springtails, and anyone who has seen Escudo froglets knows they're probably not eating adult isos so there must be plenty of iso offspring in there, the isos are dwarf grays but I'm trying to get the dwarf purples going now too. This may just be because the nemerteans are getting enough flies though, who knows.


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## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

You know, nemerteans make great live food for tetras! With a nice pair of fine tweezers, it's easy to pick up a rogue worm and drop it in a fishtank. I am actually thankful for nemerteans in a few of my vivs. Never thought I'd say that.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pnwpdf said:


> You know, nemerteans make great live food for tetras! With a nice pair of fine tweezers, it's easy to pick up a rogue worm and drop it in a fishtank. I am actually thankful for nemerteans in a few of my vivs. Never thought I'd say that.


I read this and just started laughing..... you could always culture them... just feed the culture surplus fruit flies.. you can probably just stun the flies by chilling them down to make it easier.... 

Ed


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I just wanted to mention that I added giant orange isos to a couple of tanks I have that were simply infested with nemerteans. After a few months, the tanks went from glass covered in them constantly to me only seeing one or two every few days.


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## wikiwakawakawee (Jan 24, 2013)

mora said:


> Strangest Invertebrate Ever - YouTube


These would be the best fake boogers ever
P.S. did anyone else notice his fingernails???


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## Campfool (Mar 3, 2013)

Okay, try not to laugh but I feel like an expectant father, unable to do anything but worry, wait and watch!
I've had aquariums all my life, and lot's of them, fresh through brackish and even a couple reef tanks, but none have ever caused me to worry or go-manic the way this build is and has! Twitch. Twitch.
I'm certain I've done everything wrong, didn't clean anything near enough, put too many of the wrong kind of flora in, that mold and weird worms will grow rampant and I'll end up bankrupt and insane, on the street holding a sign that reads "retired vivarian"! Twitch, twitch. For sure I forgot micro fauna... it's going to be at least a week, maybe two before I can introduce them now and in the meantime who knows what horrors could occur? 

Other than asking if my behavior is normal for a noob, which I assume it isn't (twitch, twitch), are there any hints or suggestions anyone has to maintaining one's sanity during the cycling period? I was and had planned to continue to read and research but that has only led me to discover new and even more horrifying things to obsess over such as Nemerteans!

“Nemerteans”! It even sounds like “The Martian’s”

Tell me, please, it’s not as bad as I’m making it out to be, please!


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

As long as you took precautions and cleaned the plants and such you should be fine.Only time will tell,but the tank looks nice!Good luck with the new kids.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Campfool said:


> Okay, try not to laugh but I feel like an expectant father, unable to do anything but worry, wait and watch!
> I've had aquariums all my life, and lot's of them, fresh through brackish and even a couple reef tanks, but none have ever caused me to worry or go-manic the way this build is and has! Twitch. Twitch.
> I'm certain I've done everything wrong, didn't clean anything near enough, put too many of the wrong kind of flora in, that mold and weird worms will grow rampant and I'll end up bankrupt and insane, on the street holding a sign that reads "retired vivarian"! Twitch, twitch. For sure I forgot micro fauna... it's going to be at least a week, maybe two before I can introduce them now and in the meantime who knows what horrors could occur?
> 
> ...


I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I just completed my 40 gal and I'm freaking out. I washed everything as instructed on these threads but these nemerteans seem impervious to everything. Now I find myself watching the tank constantly looking for these creepy crawlies. 

I found nematodes in my dwarf white isopod culture and I'm tossing it. The culture has all but crashed. It's about 4 weeks old and I've only found about 4-5 isopods in there which I've move with a spoon to the tank. Ahhhhhh. Why does this have to be so complicated.


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## Campfool (Mar 3, 2013)

GP dynamite said:


> I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I just completed my 40 gal and I'm freaking out. I washed everything as instructed on these threads but these nemerteans seem impervious to everything. Now I find myself watching the tank constantly looking for these creepy crawlies.
> 
> I found nematodes in my dwarf white isopod culture and I'm tossing it. The culture has all but crashed. It's about 4 weeks old and I've only found about 4-5 isopods in there which I've move with a spoon to the tank. Ahhhhhh. Why does this have to be so complicated.



My experience this past month preparing for this hobby have looked something like this:                           
I'm mildly bipolar so some of this is to be expected, but instead of my weekly/monthly swings I'm experiencing hourly swings! The other day in Home Depot, happily going for another tube of black silicone, I actually cried  standing right in front of the paint counter. Between the paint and the self-checkout I noticed a sale on LED flashlights  so by the time I had started ringing up I was all glowing smiles! 

A close friend and I where talking this morning and, as usual, he had some great advice for me. Keep some perspective, remember why I'm doing this, and if I do get nemarteans I could always go into business selling them to pest control companies to use as a "green" biological treatment for fruit flies!


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

I have them in a 50 gal display tank .they whiped out my springs.but as Doug stated my dwarf white and purple isos are not effected.


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