# Thoughts on frog amount (orange lamasi)



## Speg (Nov 9, 2010)

Getting 3 orange lamasi coming Tuesday. I plan on adding them to a 18"x18"x24" exo terra vivarium that has been set up for quite some time and is loaded with springs and isopods.

My question: Since I'm a beginner and this will literally be my first frog(s), is three a decent number for this tank? Would 4 be too many considering the size of the tank and my experience level in this hobby?

Any other hints/tips that may or may not be on the care sheets that I've viewed?

Thanks!


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## MichelleSG (May 1, 2010)

I have 3 o.lamasi and they were my first frogs ever. I keep them in a 20 high and it's a perfectly fine size for the trio. Your size tank is 36 gallon so I'd say you can do 4 as long as only 1 is male.


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## Speg (Nov 9, 2010)

I really don't know the sex, so maybe I should just stay with the three.


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Also don't be surprised if you don't see them too often as lamasi tend to be very shy.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't think you should look at it as how many can I pack in there. More space is always better. I think a 1.2 trio would be fine for that viv. Adding more females seems to be overkill as they readily breed and it could get crowded in there if your viv grows in and you can t find all the froglets.

Michael


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## Speg (Nov 9, 2010)

I think I'll just stick with the three then. No need for me to go overkill on my first attempt at frogs anyhow.

Thanks.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

This is not a good choice for a first job. Not saying they'll do bad but don't be surprised if they hide and you rarely see them. You might see them here and there. This will be very stressful for a new frog keeper. I wish you got leucs or something. They're fun for all levels of keeper. REALLY fun. They've always been my favorite starter frog. They're so gorgeous too. 

Not saying you'll fail..just want new people to stay in the hobby and anyone should get really familiar with dart frogs before thumbnails. 

Did the person selling to you mention any of this? I'm sure you'll do fine..Just take my advice. Please don't stress if you don't see them much and think they're dead. You'll want to tear apart the tank looking for them wondering what's wrong lol

Good luck though!

P.S. Did you read the caresheets here? Patrick Nabors wrote a good one on Notes for keeping thumbnail dart frogs. A lot of good advice in there about keeping groups. 

I'm upgrading my collection right now to all be on a single rack with conversion tanks with front opening doors on 20gal extra talls for all my frogs. Doing a 29 gallon conversion so I have 30 inches of height for a group of 5 yellow vents I'm picking up from a member here locally. I'll watch them very closely but it's a decent sized tank anyway. Will be a nice display. I've been keeping dart frogs since 1998 and just got back into it 5 months ago. This is my first thumbnail ever! Back when I got into it I never heard of new keepers getting thumbnails. Usually they're not interested in them till they become very experienced with the larger and bold frogs. Which are usually more colorful and fun for beginners as well.


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## Speg (Nov 9, 2010)

No they didn't mention it..but I doubt I'll be too stressed if I don't see them because I do know that they're shy. I did look into them before I went with the purchase.

I'm in the saltwater fish/coral hobby and I'm used to fish that I have being a very rare sight... I see my frog fish about once a week...maybe 

Thanks! I can't wait.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Orange lamsi are pretty little frogs.....I have 2 now that morphed out about 1+ months ago. They arenow in a small grow out tank, I will say they hide far more then my veraderos....Congrats Speg.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Sounds like you are prepared for them to be shy. Couple other points. If you start one fruit fly culture every week, soon you will be crawling in flies and you'll feel like you are being wasteful. You may feel tempted to skip to one every other week. About then, you'll have one crash and find yourself in trouble! It's better to have too many flies! It's ok to flush some down the toilet now and then. Remember, thumbnails have little in the way of fat reserves and will starve quickly if you get into trouble. Establishing springtails and isopods in you viv will be a nice backup food source.
Second thing I like to say is this, don't ask yourself if your frogs can escape or get stuck somewhere, ask yourself if a fruitfly can escape or get stuck! Because our thumbs can squeeze themselves into a crack that you wouldn't believe.
Stick with the three for now. If you later find that you got all the same sex you can try to trade for another.


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## Speg (Nov 9, 2010)

Appreciate the advice. I don't see how a frog could escape my viv at the moment...thing is sealed pretty well.

I also started to culture flies several months ago before I began frogs..I even had a batch crash on me already...make my own media...etc..I like the flies  I was pretty shocked when I found out how well they can jump.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

I've made my own media at times and it works okay. I've gotten it from a few places here and there as well. My recent media I got from a sponsor on here is SO awesome. Yields so many flies for a while. I've since cut down how many cultures I make and it's still way too many. I sell cultures to 2 customers at the pet shop. They just don't understand needing a culture made every week. So when they call the store or my cell phone for a culture, it's two days after they ran out of fruit flies. Drives me nuts!!! But, lately they haven't been calling me. I was thinking that they finally smartened up and ordered the cultures online rather than paying the pet store $16. I got a call today from one of them saying he needs a culture soon. This was like 6 weeks after I gave him a 2 week old culture. I was surprised. (He feeds a single blue Auratus froglet he paid $90 through the pet store for). Even worse, his girlfriend bought him this frog for Christmas. He wasn't even prepared whatsoever. He thought she was getting him a red Tegu!!! He got it on Christmas day, then all of a sudden realized he couldn't buy food for it local. Also, the employees, who know NOTHING of Dart Frog care, decided they wouldn't fill me in on the order or ask me to help get them started. They know I am hardcore into keeping and breeding dartfrogs well and hired me to take over their reptile side of business

So, moral to the story, do whatever you can to maximize fruit fly production and keep flies around. Never know when everything will just die for no reason and you're stuck waiting for a fruit fly order that's late after 4 days with nothing to feed. If you can, keep rice flour beetles around and seed the tank with springtails. 

Sorry to derail thread. Have the day off and bored so figured I'd post a lot in the beginner forum. Fruit flies production is a biggie with Dart Frogs. No need to have to stress about it. Really good to hear you started months early! 

You're in the right place and you'll figure out your way.


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## Speg (Nov 9, 2010)

Hey, thanks for the reply, and feel free to go crazy and write whatever you wish...writing is a key that opens the soul 

I appreciate the advice...I do want to look into more alternate foods..currently have springs/flies/isos. I really don't see a thumbnail eating the isos and they hide a lot.

I'll look into the rice flour beetles for sure. Thanks.


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## InnoEcto (Jun 28, 2009)

DJboston said:


> This is not a good choice for a first job. Not saying they'll do bad but don't be surprised if they hide and you rarely see them. You might see them here and there. This will be very stressful for a new frog keeper. I wish you got leucs or something. They're fun for all levels of keeper. REALLY fun. They've always been my favorite starter frog. They're so gorgeous too.
> 
> Not saying you'll fail..just want new people to stay in the hobby and anyone should get really familiar with dart frogs before thumbnails.
> 
> ...


With all due respect, 
I really don't agree with this position. I think it is a bit of a misconception, that everyone needs to familiarize themselves with the care of larger frogs, before trying to keep thumbnails. Every species has it's own care requirements, and furthermore, every group can behave differently. Success with tinctorius may not translate to success with Ranitomeya. 
It sounds like the OP has done the research, and understands what is required and expected. Orange lamasi are good beginner thumbnails. The main downside, is, as has been stated, their shyness. People have used appropriate thumbnails as a stepping stone into the hobby. As long as they choose an appropriate Ranitomeya species, there is no reason to fear trying small frogs, just because they are small.

Speg, most of our lamasi are active in the early morning and early evening, and hide durring most of the day. Not always going by the viv light cycles, they can be quite active when the vivarium lights are off, but some ambient light is present in the room.


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## amphitecna (Nov 13, 2009)

I just wanted to jump in here, on an oldish thread and say congrats on your lamasi! I hope they're doing well for you. They were our starter thumbnails, and I have to say one of my favorite frogs. I think I feel that way because of their shyness- it's then a privilege when you get to see one. The second reason though, that I really love these guys is their song. I'm surprised no-one mentioned it here. If you did wind up with a male, you'll never wonder if they're dead or escaped. Ours sang constantly. And I find their call to be one of the nicer ones (out of the species we've kept)....and that's actually saying something, because I've yet to meet a frog who's call I didn't like.

They do breed amazingly easily. You probably won't realise it until start seeing froglets. When we broke down the tank to sell them for an overseas move, we found the parents, two known froglets, one or two other froglets and about five tads in various stages of development.

It sounds like you're on top of things for starting in the hobby- but do take the advice posted on here about fly cultures. We're now in France, and have for the first time suffered some crashes (and medium is difficult to find, so I've been experimenting with homemade on the run....not pretty when I don't know the french for "brewers yeast" *sigh*).

Most importantly, enjoy! When I finally convinced my husband to get into this, we'd sit in front of the tanks for ages, just watching. "Better than Nature" he'd say.... (the show, not the real thing). I agree!


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## Jeff69 (Nov 30, 2009)

You should be good with the amount you have how old are the frogs?


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## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about them being that shy mine are always out and about. My calling males is bold and don't care who is watching. hes VERY loud but it makes me smile each time i hear him call. I love mine! Anyone have a proven female for sale?


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