# Top ventilation



## stepheneashia (Feb 3, 2017)

I currently have a 40 breeder . I was wondering about top ventilation. I will have glass on each end . I'm wondering how far apart the glass should be before it Interferes with the humidity in the aqauarium. The opening will run from front to back.


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## Merkwood (Feb 24, 2015)

If you are keeping dart frogs you don't want ventilation, so you can keep high humidity


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## TheForSaken (Nov 21, 2016)

Merkwood said:


> If you are keeping dart frogs you don't want ventilation, so you can keep high humidity


Sorry dude, but you gots more reading to do...


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## Merkwood (Feb 24, 2015)

TheForSaken said:


> Sorry dude, but you gots more reading to do...


More reading? I've been doing all glass lids with internal air circulation for years with no problems, the only ventilation I need is when I open the tank to feed, trim etc. I gave my 2 cents 

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## TheForSaken (Nov 21, 2016)

I'm glad it's been working for you. 
But to recommend that ventilation is not needed for darts is careless and could definitely be problematic. 
Stagnant air is a terrible thing not only for the frogs but also the plants.
Near 100% humidity has many associated problems also..
Depending on light source, heat could become an issue real quick and potentially fry everything in the unvented glass box...
Even heat generated by the sun if your viv is by a window. 
Consensation will muck up your viewing pleasure. 
Algae. ..
Just to name a few.
Like I said, I'm glad it's been working out for you, but in my personal opinion, ventilation design in a viv is mostly underrated


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## Merkwood (Feb 24, 2015)

TheForSaken said:


> I'm glad it's been working for you.
> But to recommend that ventilation is not needed for darts is careless and could definitely be problematic.
> Stagnant air is a terrible thing not only for the frogs but also the plants.
> Near 100% humidity has many associated problems also..
> ...


I guess I worded it wrong, Yes you need ventilation I just dont like the idea of having actual vents in the tank, thats just me. Hence why I have air circulation in the tank and I open the tank a few times a day which lets it circulate. I didn't mean to sound like ventilation was useless I just wrote a quick reply and didn't fully think. Sorry for the confusion


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Ventilation is a big key with keeping a symbiotic relationship between your plants and frogs. CO2 buildup is a real deal in semi sealed enclosures.

This picture shown my 40G breeder vert conversion top.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

How about the potential for respiratory disease, that Ed has discussed, when keeping animals in 90% plus humidity? 
Sealed boxes can raise frogs.
Ventilated boxes can raise frogs better, healthier, and longer lived.
Ventilated boxes can and do allow your frogs to cool themselves through evaporative cooling. That is literally impossible in a sealed box. What that translates to, is if a frog room full of sealed boxes, hits 90 degrees, stuff starts dying, and it keeps dying even after getting the temps back down. In a frog room full of ventilated boxes, you have the very real possibility of every single frog living through it. Yes, I have firsthand experience with my frogs living through a heat wave that would have killed them my first time through the hobby.
I'm sorry, but sealed boxes are very old school, There is new information, and a new way of doing things. The old way is not always better. Thank God Henry Ford didn't kick back and say, "Close enough. Where's the beer?" We can all strive for better for our pets. I feel strongly that all the old vivs should be redone with passive ventilation. It's just better.
Oh, I missed one. Giving your tank that passive ventilation we are discussing, also swings open the floodgates of all the new species of plants you can now keep! Orchids and epiphyte ferns, like Microgrammas, Pyrrosa (just scored a rare Christii today!!), and Lemmaphyllums, are now possible! Those Bulbophyllum and Restripia orchids are blooming with no intervention. Huperzia "ferns" can rock and roll now! Open a vent and grab yourself some Huperzia Squarrosa, for something crazy exotic, that can now be easily kept. I scored myself a Squarrosa today, too! Guess what my favorite vivarium plants are? 

Yes, in a way, you are right. You don't *need* a vent, but why would you not?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

To the op, as far as how much ventilation is good, well, we all have our opinion of how much is good. I like to do a vertical style vivarium, with a full 1" strip of screen mesh all the way across the front of the vivarium, right below the door. Then I use a second 1" strip at the top of the vivarium, either at the front, above the doors, or at the back, to encourage airflow through the plants.

Remember, you can always put something over a vent to cover it, if you decide it's too much. On the other hand, it is much trickier to add more ventilation to a completed viv with inhabitants. I have yet to do a build with too much ventilation, where I had to cover any portion of the vents.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah, I have to agree with everybody here that you may have been dodging a bullet all of these years. Moving the air internally with a fan is not doing anything to mitigate your too-high humidity. You need exchange with the outside air before you are doing much with that fan. It will sure be helpful once you add ventilation, though. I don't mean to pile on with the criticism, but I think it's important for folks reading this thread to realize that there is a better way now than near-sealed enclosures.

Mark


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## Merkwood (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for all the constructive criticism, had no intention of having this thread focused on my mistakes, but that's just how I always did it, 6 years ago when I started out I was just told to have a glass lid to keep humidity in never heard of many people having fans, only tanks I m
Knew of that had vents were exo terras and vertical conversion tanks, even when Grimm had his silicone hinged tops that were basically air tight I never saw anyone talking about ventalitaion with that. So when I took a 2 year break from the hobby, and returned I just went back to how i did it originally, didn't realize how big of an issue it can be, my tank is not air tight, maybe I just never noticed since I was a kid, but I have 2 giant holes in the glass where my misting nozzles are at cause they were drilled to big when the guy at the shop did it, so they might as well be vents. I will have to remake my lids, but thanks for all the info 

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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Good stuff  That's what I like about this hobby: it actually progresses over time. There was a time when lots of the threads on DB involved Spindly Leg Syndrome. Where are those threads now? They are not necessary because people like Repashy studied the nutritional requirements of frogs and developed supplements that seem to have nearly eliminated SLS when they are used properly. This should be a rallying cry to try out things that haven't been tried before (so long as they don't endanger the animals) and documenting the progress.

I appreciate your attitude, Merkwood.

Mark



Merkwood said:


> Thanks for all the constructive criticism, had no intention of having this thread focused on my mistakes, but that's just how I always did it, 6 years ago when I started out I was just told to have a glass lid to keep humidity in never heard of many people having fans, only tanks I m
> Knew of that had vents were exo terras and vertical conversion tanks, even when Grimm had his silicone hinged tops that were basically air tight I never saw anyone talking about ventalitaion with that. So when I took a 2 year break from the hobby, and returned I just went back to how i did it originally, didn't realize how big of an issue it can be, my tank is not air tight, maybe I just never noticed since I was a kid, but I have 2 giant holes in the glass where my misting nozzles are at cause they were drilled to big when the guy at the shop did it, so they might as well be vents. I will have to remake my lids, but thanks for all the info
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry to ignore your initial question, Stephen.

I would make the vent bigger than you think it will need to be and then close it up temporarily as needed once you get things dialed in. I use an extra piece of glass that's the same size as the vent. I just set it on top of the vent, closing off as much of the vent as I need to. The actual size of the vent you need has a lot to do with the humidity levels in your house, how often you mist inside the tank, temperatures inside and outside the tank, etc.

Best of luck,

Mark



stepheneashia said:


> I currently have a 40 breeder . I was wondering about top ventilation. I will have glass on each end . I'm wondering how far apart the glass should be before it Interferes with the humidity in the aqauarium. The opening will run from front to back.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Honestly, get a humidity gauge and see what works for your conditions. Relative humidity, temperature and your specific set-up and location all play vital roles in gauging how much ventilation you do or don't need. 

I like the above post about a manually adjustable glass piece to open and close your vent.

My personal set-ups use timed active ventilation (fans push fresh air in), automated misting and have 2-4'' wide ventilation openings on top as well as front vents. My relative humidity is 50-60% RH and my temps are in the 70s and low 80s during the hottest days. While some may say this is on the high side, my frogs are happy.

Do what works for you!


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

I meant my ambient room humidity is 50-60%. In the tanks its 65-90% averaging 80% according to my cheapo zoomed gauges.


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## stepheneashia (Feb 3, 2017)

Thanks everyone. I was considering a 3 inch strip from front to back


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