# Dieing Bromeliads



## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

I've recently built a trio of 10 gallon verts, and started placing some bromeliads. However, after about two weeks, the 'super fireball' is all but dead, and one of the 'pimientas' is starting to go. My first though is they are too close to the light. There is a 65 watt PC across the 3 tanks, raised about an inch or so off the top. The fireball is about 2.5-3" below the top of the tank, and the pimienta is slightly lower than that. Here are some pics:

Here is the setup...









The 'super' fireball...









Pimienta...










So what's everyone think? I think it't too late for the fireball, but I'd like to save the pimienta. All the other broms are doing fine, although one of the other fireballs is starting to go green. 

Thanks,

-Pat[/img]


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Pat, did you bleach them? I find that bleaching (10% for 10 minutes) is hard on broms, and they lose some of their outer leaves afterward. If you bleached, and did not rinse them thoroughly, that could be the problem. One other thought, is that they were subjected to really cold weather in shipping?


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2006)

I think Id need a little more information before I could say whats going on in there. You dont mention anything about your care regimen. What kind of water are you using? How often? Fertilizing? air movement? what did you mount them with?
These are some of things we need to know inorder to assist you further of course any other info you may have on thier growing conditions would be helpfull too.

Matt


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

Well i will just tell you that broms smell really really nasty once they start decomposing


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I don't really have enough experience quite yet to diagnose bromeliad problems, but I've had pretty good success with them here in the last few months (knock on wood). I'll tell you how I keep them.

When I get new broms, they go into a "growing station" thing that I have setup. Its usually an empty 10 gal tank or a tall cardboard box. I then place all the new broms in the box upright and keep their axils full of water. I try to keep the humidity around them pretty high and make sure they have really good light. I don't have PC bulbs, so I keep mine pretty close to the light source. Like this, although I've changed this around a bit now...









When its terrarium time, I mount my broms directly into the Great Stuff background or wood or whatever you're using. I like to get broms that have plenty of stolon left on them b/c it makes them easier to mount. When they are in the viv, I still keep the humidity high, but I also try to make sure that the really crowded vivs get some sorta air flow. The less crowded vivs, I just mist them and try not to soak them too much.

Over crowded example...









All the broms in the 42 are growing perfect, but that viv has a little PC fan that keeps the air moving. I mist 3 times a day.

So far, all of my broms grow holder roots and pup off within a month or so and I've not had any major problems. Only problems so far is that I lose some of the lower leaves as the plant grows and covers its bottom from the light. Thats it.

Hope this helped somewhat.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I'm with Matt, we need more info. Looking at the leaves, there are some good sized water droplets on the leaves. Now, if you had just misted, that's normal, but if it stays like that, I'd say it's too much water. Just a guess though in the absence of more info.


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Thanks for the replies. Sorry about being so vague, here's some more info...

I did not do a bleaching. They did go through the cold during shipping. I believe it was 2-day shipping, temps were probably a few degrees above freezing at the coldest. I was at home when they came, so they weren't sitting outside, but like I said, temps were close to freezing during shipping, so they did go through the cold. When i got them, I left them out in my kitchen in empty pots to warm up, and gave them a misting. The next day I gave them a good 10 min soak in some dechlorinated tap water before putting them into the tanks. They all have good sized stems, so a couple I staple gunned to the wood, but neither of these two are were stapled. The pimienta is in a little pot in the background, and the stem of the fireball is wedged between wood and background. The humidity is around 70-75%, and in this pic they were just misted, which explains the water droplets. They didn't show signs of die off until about a week, maybe just over a week after I put them in the tank. I spray every other day, sometimes with dechlorinated tap water thats been sitting for several days, and sometimes with distilled. I do make sure there's always water in the axils. No fertilizer. The air movement only comes from the front vents, so there's not much, but enough to keep the front glass from fogging up for extended periods of time (if that matters at all?). Like I said, my first thought was they were too close to the light, but the fireball doesn't seem to be crispy and burnt, it seems more to be slowly wasting/rotting away. 

Let me know if there's any more info I can provide for you guys. 
Thanks again,

-Pat


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2006)

Are they drying thoroughly between your mistings?
They may be recieving too much water, remember these are epiphytes.
Could also be cold damage (Ive gotten seleginella in the mail when is was 16 degrees out with no ill affects, its all in the aclimation) in which case all you can do is wait and see if they come around.

Matt


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

If you can, take pictures of the roots? That will be of help in determining if it's a water problem or not. I don't think it's the lights. If you want to test it though, raise the light about 6-8" off the top of the tanks if you can. That's about how high mine are off of my tanks and my broms (mounted about in the same location yours are) love it even though the other plants up there in the tank don't like the light. 

What gets me is how the leaves look like they're melting. I've had this happen many times before with other plants, but it was because of too little light. I'd almost be tempted to remove them from the tank and keep them in your house on some cork bark. This way you eliminate variables associated with your tank like ventilation and moisture.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

It is unlikely that shipment in the cold did serious damage to them unless they were subjected to freezing conditions (I have received broms shipped during very cold weather that did great). From your photos my diagnosis is that they are getting/staying too wet. The speed of the decline coupled with the appearance is pretty characteristic. 

Your best option at this point is to remove the dying broms to get them dried out quickly and try to nurse them back into health.

You mention keeping water in the axils at all times....that could be your problem...a little too much of a good thing. When I'm moving broms into a viv, I make sure I do my misting but I avoid filling them with water until I'm sure that they have gotten off to a good start. Just my own personal observation.

Good luck.

Bill


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I agree with most of what Bill said. They sound/look like overwatering. I kinda thought this before, but wanted to hear someone else say it b/c like I said, I haven't been growing broms for THAT long yet. But I know years ago I used to kill them with too much water and they would look like that.

The only difference from what Bill said is that I ALWAYS keep water in the axils of all my bromeliads. But often, thats all the water they'll get aside from misting the leaves every now and then. None of my broms are in pots either though. So they get some sorta air around their base. I just try to keep the bottoms from being too wet/soggy. Wet bottom is a recipe for rot.


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Alright, here are a couple more pics...

Roots-









Just another pic-










It is possible that I overwatered them. A couple days after I got them into the tank I was doing daily mistings before I started going every other or every third day. And I did make sure there was always water in the axils, so it sounds like that may have been a no-no. However, I don't think the roots were rotting, as they were in an area of good airflow, and little water got to them during mistings. There is still some color left in the innermost leaves, so I removed the plant, and it is now near a window mounted on cork (is this ok? it gets a little direct sunlight, but not much). 

Thanks to everyone for all your help. I just want to make sure that if I'm doing something wrong, it doesn't happen again. 

-Pat


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I'm not plant expert, so you'll want to double check this, but I'd only put them in a North facing window. Direct sunlight, when I've put broms outside, has withered them away in no time. 

I'm not sure what to say about the roots, though I hope someone else has some input. Thanks for taking pictures of them.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I guess none of us has mentioned plant diseases. You might wanna look some of the various diseases up and see if any of them have similar conditions/descriptions of whats going on with your broms.

Have you tried to look up a bromeliad forum? There has to be one. I'm gonna look myself.


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## Hak (Jul 10, 2005)

BSI.org

That is the website for the Bromelaid Society International. Maybe you might find some helpful tips on the cutivation on those broms there. There is a link on this site under the Links tab at the top of the page. It is under the plant section.

I had a small brom that ended up being overtaken by my fern and it ended up getting no light, the ferns roots then diverted the water from my water fall to this brom and it ended up looking much like yours. The bulbous part right before the stolon was extremely mushy which makes me think it would be a moisture issue over light. Then again like others have said I am no plant expert myself so you should explore every avenue to prevent future rots.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2006)

Well from what I see you only actually have a few live roots the rest of them look pretty dead to me. It looks to me like they may have had a double whammy. The pictures youve provided us with tell me that it you were probably providing the foliage with excessive moisture and the roots with insufficient moisture thus stressing the plant significantly enough to potentially allow the for the introduction of a pathogen. What pathogen that may be seems unclear at this piont but I would speculate that it is fungal.
However with that said I wouldnt suggest attempting to treat for this as they look to me like a lost cause. And any chemical introduction at this point will certainly spell death.

You could try saving them by removing all the dead material and placing them in a large Ziplock bag with a small amount of barely damp
(barely damp should be shpagnum that has been saturated and then wrung out out until it stops dripping water) 
sphagnum placed near the roots. Inflate then seal it and place near a light source
(NO DIRECT SUN) 
and leave it for a month but check it regularly to ensure the spagnum does not stay too wet and that the plant is not continuing in its downward spiral.
After about a month or so it should be producing new leaves and roots at which pint you can put it back in your vivarium and start watering it regularly but only the roots at first. Only once the plant has adjusted to your Viv and is activley growing new shoots would I suggest you start watering the crowns.
FWIW

Matt


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Matt,

It was to my understanding the the Neoregelia genus' species don't obtain any nutrient from the roots but from the foliage and axil. I was under the impression that the roots were soley for anchoring. Can you explain at all?


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2006)

It is my understanding that Tillandsia is the primary genus that doesnt utilize uptake via the root system signicantly enough to warrent its consideration.
Hence the silver hairs(on the leaves) produced by plants in this genera.

From what I know of most other bromeliad genera, not that my experience is vast, they do depend upon some amount of water being absorbed through the roots to a varying extant. Especially when a plant is under stress will it require all of its resources.

What I can tell you though with out a doubt is that Most Bromeliads do infact rely upon thier roots like any other plant. I learned this very quickly when I was working as a Hort Tech for an Interiorscaping firm. If you supply these plant with excessive water or water in the axils, in interiorscapes, you will surely kill them.

When these plants sit 50 feet up in a tree witht the wind whipping around them they Need that extra water storage similar to how an orchid would need its pseudobulb in the same situation. But take that environment away with out altering the watering regimen and disaster will soon follow.

FWIW

Matt


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Thanks everyone for all your help, and thanks Matt, for all of that info. Like I said, I removed the plant, so we'll see what happens. I'll try and see if I can find anything on diseases, but from all the info here, I'm assuming that overwatering was at least a large part of the problem. I guess I just take this as a learning experience, and now I know what to do and what not to do next time.

Again, thank you all for all of your input, I greatly appreciate it.

-Pat


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