# Mixed Tank / leucomela and thumbnails????



## flyingleap (Jul 14, 2007)

A question was asked of me as to whether you could have a mixed tank with a leucomela group and some thumbnails. The tank is 120 gallons and will have 5 baby leucs. Could you put a thumbnail pair or trio in with them and if so what would the preference be? I don't have any mixed tanks myself so I wasn't sure how to answer the question. I have seen one tank with Azureus and Green Leg Lamasi and both groups were doing great....however I haven't seen any mixed leucomela tanks. Thanks for the input.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

unfortunately, keeping the same/species and morph in a tank is the best option. I'm afraid you might have opened a can of worms here...and dont want to put you down for asking. I strongly suggest keeping the thumbnails in one tank and the leucs in another...being as the leuc tank is sooo large, you could always add more leucs? yes, zoos do this. But we are not a zoo, and some of us still dont agree. you'll get a lot of mixed opinions. This is only my 2 cents. perhaps a better idea might be putting in a divider into the tank. 1/3 being for a group of thumbs and the 2/3 being for the leucs as long as they have all been fecaled clean and passed the quarantine process of course. hope this helps. kristy


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I would say 120 gallons would be plenty big enough for leucs and thumbs, some frogs like Pumilio are very territorial and that may cause some issues but 120 gallons is a lot of space (compared to what most of us offer our frogs). Leucs like to climb but would be mostly terrestrial, an arborial thumb would likely work well, just moniter to make sure.
Once animals start breeding behaviour many times they change their temperment as well. I have seen many shy frogs become very outgoing once mother nature takes over, it may also increase their territoriality though, so once again just observe and act accordingly.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

There are many things to take into account with this, and I will not go into it all here as there are many threads on this. But given the size, I agree with Mark. It is dueable. But do your reading and see if you still want to do it.


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## flyingleap (Jul 14, 2007)

Thanks for the input. Like I said in my post, its not my tank (although I would love to have a 120 gal.tank)and I don't have any experience with it personally. It is info for a "new" frogger I just met (he's into all the other frogs outside of the "dart" range) and I just sent him the link to the board so that he can register and can do the research himself.
Thanks again


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Not to hitch hike but this brings up a question. Is there a frog that is almost exclusively a climber?


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Nubster said:


> Not to hitch hike but this brings up a question. Is there a frog that is almost exclusively a climber?


Arboreus, but good luck finding those in the hobby.

Rich


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## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

Rich Frye said:


> Nubster said:
> 
> 
> > Not to hitch hike but this brings up a question. Is there a frog that is almost exclusively a climber?
> ...


 :wink:


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Saw two types for sale in Germany (Arboreus).

In Panama, you can find auratus in close quarters with pumilio. I'd imagine a big enough (very big) you could get that to work but the pums will fight the auratus if they feel like it.

-Nish


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

nish07 said:


> Saw two types for sale in Germany (Arboreus).
> 
> In Panama, you can find auratus in close quarters with pumilio. I'd imagine a big enough (very big) you could get that to work but the pums will fight the auratus if they feel like it.
> 
> -Nish


Some of the EU "arboreus " are in question as to if they are arboreus, vincentii, or something quite different. I know of someone who purchased German "arboreus", have seen the pics, and we are both not sure they are arboreus. But we could start an arboreus thread eslwhere if wanted.
Here is a great way of looking at mixing. If you, or the person you are asking for, needs to ask if certain Darts can be mixed , you or they are not ready for a mixing "experiment".

Rich


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

you have a large collection, so I'm sure you could probably figure out yourself whether or not it's okay to mix-- based on observing your own animals.

an old friend of mine from DB had a similar size tank that he house a RETF, auratus pair, bicolor, and azureus. He had to separate the bicolor and azureus as soon as the frogs started to breed as they became too aggressive.

As far as the RETF, he fed it reheated, frozen crickets so the crickets wouldn't attack frogs while they slept. 

If you're looking to breed frogs, I would avoid it though.


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## flyingleap (Jul 14, 2007)

Thanks for the input. I don't have mixed tanks for obvious reasons. It's easy to tell someone just starting out why you shouldn't do it, however all they have to do is a little research on some well known sites (even on this board) and they'll find on the topic of mixing that it *should be ok with other species if not crowded* so I'm sure it causes a lot of confusion for someone new to darts. I guess the bottom line is they should do lots of research, make an informed decision and live with that decision and consequences....end of story.


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

flyingleap said:


> Thanks for the input. I don't have mixed tanks for obvious reasons. It's easy to tell someone just starting out why you shouldn't do it, however all they have to do is a little research on some well known sites (even on this board) and they'll find on the topic of mixing that it *should be ok with other species if not crowded* so I'm sure it causes a lot of confusion for someone new to darts. I guess the bottom line is they should do lots of research, make an informed decision and live with that decision and consequences....end of story.



I agree that some "well known sites"/"well respected breeders" have some info that is not what we are moving toward. No quarantine, mixing OK, and frogs "just dieing " (no mention of parasites at all) because they do that sometimes from stress , and the like from a very, very well known breeder. 
It can be hard sometimes to find good info. My sig sums up my view.

Rich


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## scott r (Mar 2, 2008)

YEP!!


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Good points Rich but I think a lot of people just assume everyone puts frogs together with the intent to breed them. This person has a 120 gallon tank, if they wanted to put a nice rain forest display together to sit back relax and enjoy...much like a fish tank, putting 2 or 3 species together with a bunch of nice plants and observing that they are mostly harmonious is something they ought to be able to do without criticism from the community (of course we have no idea if they want anything to do with our community). And it has just struck me that I have never myself done what I have just described.....there's another thread...are we obligated to breed the frogs we keep (though I seem to remember one of that topic a while ago).
Breeding projects and seriously keeping frogs with the intent to breed I certainly agree with you 100%.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I bet if you had free ranging frogs in a greenhouse like Atlanta Botanical Gardens, you could have dozens of sympatric species living together because of the space.

That costs thousands of dollars to run-- zoos mix species, but think of the oncall veterinary staff and the budget that place has compared to the average hobbyist. 

Some folks cite places like Black Jungle as having mixed exhibits-- but doesn't their business cater to frogs / vivariums only? They are a company with a larger budget than us. If something went wrong, they could easily separate frogs because they have tanks, plants, knowledge, etc. on standby.

I can't be around to watch my frogs 24/7, and all too often we notice our frogs knocking on death's door and it's too late to fix health issues.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Those are all very good point Doug.


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