# Auratus eggs OK u think?



## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

I finally got a clutch my my Super Blue pr. I am a virgin to breeding PDF so gonna need some help through. These frogs are proven breeders from the previous owner so they should know what they are doing. After simulating a 2 week dry season they bred immediately after turning on the water feature again. I was too excited about having eggs to leave them in the tank to ensure fertilization so hoping they are good. The 1st day pulled they were jet black but on 2nd day I see some white in them. Is this development you think or not fertilized? Some pics of eggs I see develop a white yolk sac while others stay black until tads so bit confused. I know time will tell but like to know what you guys say....

*Day 1:*









*Day 2:*


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## cheezus_2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

From what i can see they all look slightly foggy or something... You might leave them a lil longer than a day... Maybe like 2 or 3 days then pull them. Your male might not have gotten around to fertilizing them. Anyways good luck and congrats with the eggs  its always exciting to find new eggs


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes they are going whitish, which is what concerns me. I pulled them already tho. Hopefully they will keep breeding again now that they started with me and I can get ongoing clutches as well, but was hoping this one would be good?


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

I would wait a bit longer than two days. As the eggs change they often separate a bit in color, eventually by day 5 you usually see some action, like a straight line forming across the eggs. By day 6 you will start to see a little tad forming from this line.


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

What kind of supplements are you using and how often?


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Alternating daily with Rep-Cal Calcium & Herptivite.
Here are a few pics with a digital microscope;




























They have gotten larger it seems since yesterday so thats a good sign!


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

The first pic looks lke they are cleaving which means they are into to tads, but the last seems that they are disintegrating. Sometimes eggs get bigger as they turn to mush, only time will tell, be patient. Your pair should continue to lay clutches, leave them 3 or 4 days before pulling.


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## bakaichi (Jun 27, 2009)

congrad~~~~

how long did u leave the egg in before u took it out ?

my first clutch form pete didnt make it, but what i found is 
just dont distirb them too much, even better ignore them.

hope they will hatch for u
Jason


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

those eggs never did anything. they stayed that milky greyish colour.
But yesterday they gave me 10 more eggs! Leaving this ones in viv until development seen.

What do users recommend as good feeding regimens?


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

So 9/10 of the eggs are showing development as of day 5. 










Eggs still in the tank. I have 2 questions;
1) Recommended to leave them in tank until tad stage or safe to remove now?
2) Is it normal for the Female to lose weight during breeding? She is considerably smaller now than she used to be. Still active and eating well.


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

Congrats!

1. Yes, you can remove them now that you see development.
2. Perfectly normal, look what just came out of her! 10 eggs take up a lot of room in an auratus. I feed heavily every day during breeding since both male and female are working so hard.


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

I after discovering eggs, place a piece of masking tape on the tank with the date and species on it.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

So do most people rear the eggs to tads stage in the tanks or outside artificially?


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Day 9 and they are lookin good....



















Still need to set up the system to house them in after they hatch. Female has fattened up nicely again and expect a new batch soon if she stays on schedule.


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Congrats!


.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

they dont' look so good. it looks like they hav ea vitamin A deficientcy, what supplements are you using?


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Really??
Rep-Cal Herptivite & Calcium w/Vit. D alternated daily.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Well all my tads died off as they approached hatching stage. Any ideas what happened? The temp did get a bit low a couple nights to low 60's...


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

As Julio mentioned, looks like tads with vit A deficiency. I would recommend adding another supplement to your feeding regimen. Herpetal amphib, repashy ICB, or even straight vit A should be fine. Also, dendrocare.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

As has been said, vitamin A deficiency is a possible cause. See how your next few clutches do before jumping to any conclusions as well. Paper below:

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Title: Abnormalities of forelimb and pronephros in a direct developing frog suggest a retinoic acid deficiency

Authors: Lee, Seung Yun; Elinson, Richard P.

Source: Applied Herpetology, Volume 5, Number 1, 2008 , pp. 33-46(14)

Abstract: The direct developing frog, Eleutherodactylus coqui, serves as a model for a divergent, derived pattern of anuran development. Reproduction and development occur normally in captivity, although individual embryos and sometimes entire clutches exhibit edema. Edematous embryos have abnormal pronephroi, as judged by histology and by alkaline phosphatase staining. The pronephric defects would be sufficient to account for the edema. The first indicator of later edema is loss or reduced development of the forelimbs. The coupling of forelimb and pronephric abnormalities is likely due to insufficient retinoic acid. The same syndrome can be produced experimentally by treatment with citral, an inhibitor of retinoic acid synthesis. The involvement of retinoic acid in forelimb development, found previously in other vertebrates, can now be extended to anuran amphibians. Reduced forelimb development in embryos may be a useful way to detect insufficient dietary vitamin A in reproductive colonies of direct developing frogs and of other vertebrates.


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## Arrynia (Dec 27, 2009)

As Ed has pointed out many times in the past, Vit A in the form of retinol and carotenoids is best. Dendrocare and Repashy ICB (among others I'm sure), provide this.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Well the next batch of 7 came about 10 days later.
3 of the 7 developed to tads and hatched 2 days ago, my 1st tads!!!
Now that I saw these eggs develop I have a better frame of reference as to how much better they looked than the last ones. 
Maybe the 9 clutch was too big and nutrients were not concentrated enough/tad, I dunno. 
The 'bad' ones were bigger for sure, but these ones were more active in the egg.
And today I got another batch of 7 eggs I am hoping do well too.
Here are the development pics of the 3 ones that just hatched....




























So is it relatively easier to raise the tads once they hatched or am I not outta the woods yet??


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## Arrynia (Dec 27, 2009)

Tads are generally easy to care for. Just make sure that you feed lightly and sparingly for the first couple weeks and make sure that their water never becomes cloudy. They can and do survive in water with a lot of waster matter as long as the water isn't cloudy and fouled. I personally do partial water changes every week and try to remove as much waste matter as I can during these water changes. This is easily achieved by carefully using a bulb syringe such as a turkey baster. 
Also, most of us refrain from feeding tads for a couple days after they hatch to ensure that the uneaten food doesn't foul the water and cause mouth fungus.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Oops I fed them right away. Thought I read that somewhere?
They seem to have grown so much in only 3 days...
Water depth should be really low at 1st ya until they get stronger swimming?


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## Arrynia (Dec 27, 2009)

VancouverBetta said:


> Oops I fed them right away. Thought I read that somewhere?
> They seem to have grown so much in only 3 days...
> Water depth should be really low at 1st ya until they get stronger swimming?


They should be ok. Most of the caution is from when they still have external gills intact after hatching and going into the water. They don't eat until the external gills are absorbed. Just keep an eye on the water and make sure that the food you put in doesn't foul and start molding. Water depth of about an inch or 2 is fine.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Next batch has 6 of 7 fertile eggs. 
Here they are as of today Day 5:


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

Seems like you and the frogs are getting everything figured out! 

Did you change up the supplement regimen to produce more viable tadpoles? After that initial clutch with vit. A deficiency, everything looks to be doing well for you. 

I must have missed this part, but what morph is it thats breeding for you? What can we expect when they morph out? 

-Matt

EDIT: I see now that they are super blues. Very cool morph indeed!


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

No changes to supplements. The next batch a week later is one that produced my 1st 3 tads and this is the next batch. I assume the improper development of that 1st batch was due to low temps from removing the eggs, or maybe due to it's large size dispersing the nutrients too much. They have bred many times in past for previous owner, and took about 6 months to get going for me. Seems like they are back on track now tho and should keep going!
They are Super Blues.

*Male:*









*Female*;


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

Those are some really nice frogs you've got there. I've always like super blues. 

-Matt


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