# USPS - Another lost frog package.



## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

USPS was once again lost an over night frog shipment.
Frogs shipped out Tuesday. Sat in Atlanta IL, until last night, now in Chicago.
I live in Washington State. Looks like I might get them Friday?? Maybe the overnight label fell off, and they think it's Priority mail?

Made at least four calls myself to the post office, which I knew would be of zero help. And it was. I used to have live fish and freshwater shrimps shipped to me frequently, and I've had this happen before to a shipment. Pretty much no one at the Post is accountable or even remotely able to help.

I'm pretty sure they where shipped with a Phase 22 pack. Do you think they will make it? I do remember reading about those Vanzos that survived 10 days lost in the mail, that someone posted here. (These are Imitators)

(This post is in no way negative against the seller which is a member here.)

Steve


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

This is why USPS is to be avoided when shipping live animals. There is no guarantee on overnight/next day delivery and they are very irresponsible with such.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Tinctoc said:


> This is why USPS is to be avoided when shipping live animals. There is no guarantee on overnight/next day delivery and they are very irresponsible with such.


I recently read a long thread here about shipping. It seems that Fedex was the best. ALTHOUGH they too where not perfect. USPS was the worse of the three.
The USPS tracking is just so horrible, I have never understood why they don't improve it. The tracking only is reason enough to not use the Post Office.

Steve


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

Phase 22s make a huge difference. I shipped out some frogs that ended up being two day delivery and they survived. Idk about any longer than that tho. It all.depends on temps on both ends and how the frogs were packed.


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

Steverd said:


> I recently read a long thread here about shipping. It seems that Fedex was the best. ALTHOUGH they too where not perfect. USPS was the worse of the three.
> The USPS tracking is just so horrible, I have never understood why they don't improve it. The tracking only is reason enough to not use the Post Office.
> 
> Steve


Not to mention the USPS has closed down many of it's offices to try to save money...which means mail and packages are being routed differently, often out of the way.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Once again, USPS sucks.

FWIW, I hope it shows up ok. I really don't understand why people ship frogs USPS anymore. I've never had issues with FedEx or UPS myself. USPS tracking is a joke. They only track whether a package gets delivered, they don't show it's route like FedEx and UPS. You figure a gov't agency would have a decent computer system.

Hell when my glass doors showed up broken, UPS had someone at the house that night to check on how it was packaged and what the pound test rating was on the cardboard was packed in. Once the guy said it was all good, they refunded the shipper his money, no problem.

I do wish they would close them down already. I mean really, who gets mail anymore anyway that's not junk? LOL


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

kgb said:


> Phase 22s make a huge difference. I shipped out some frogs that ended up being two day delivery and they survived. Idk about any longer than that tho. It all.depends on temps on both ends and how the frogs were packed.


Spokane can be pretty cold this time of year,. 
The forecast is 64f high and 45f low today and Friday.

I may be done getting more frogs until next spring... There are just none around Spokane, Anyone close to me for trades?
Steve


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## MrBiggs (Oct 3, 2006)

JaredJ said:


> I mean really, who gets mail anymore anyway that's not junk? LOL


Netflix...


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Steverd said:


> I recently read a long thread here about shipping. It seems that Fedex was the best. ALTHOUGH they too where not perfect.


True, but if you use FedEX via SYR you get a price break, which you can use to pay for the live-on-time arrival insurance they offer. It's very inexpensive peace of mind.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

JaredJ said:


> I do wish they would close them down already. I mean really, who gets mail anymore anyway that's not junk? LOL


Fedex for frogs all the way, but if USPS closes down, are you willing to pay $50 shipping for bugs?


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

Steverd said:


> Spokane can be pretty cold this time of year,.
> The forecast is 64f high and 45f low today and Friday.
> 
> I may be done getting more frogs until next spring... There are just none around Spokane, Anyone close to me for trades?
> Steve


Wisconsin is the same and Im having no problems with shipping temps. Its all about how you pack the box.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Boondoggle said:


> True, but if you use FedEX via SYR you get a price break, which you can use to pay for the live-on-time arrival insurance they offer. It's very inexpensive peace of mind.


I think if I ever ship frog I will use SYR, especially since I have never shipped frogs before. I have received all of my frogs in the mail, so it's nice to see how other people do it. 

Frogs are still in Chicago, they haven't moved all day.. That's if you can believe the USPS online tracking.

Steve


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## tfox799947 (Jun 4, 2012)

Steve,
My fingers are crossed for the safe arrival of your new additions.
Christine


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey Steve, I'm the one who sent out the Vanzos that survived 10 days. Hoping yours turns out OK. Sure, the weather could be better, but it could be a whole lot worse, too. I have had frogs take an extra day in shipping, at least 2 other times. They both turned out well. 
Good Luck and let us know how they fair.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Hey Steve, I'm the one who sent out the Vanzos that survived 10 days. Hoping yours turns out OK. Sure, the weather could be better, but it could be a whole lot worse, too. I have had frogs take an extra day in shipping, at least 2 other times. They both turned out well.
> Good Luck and let us know how they fair.


Oh Yeah, it was you, now I remember 
You should really do a video on how to ship frogs, I would love your learn your way of packaging. Must be pretty awesome for the frogs to survive for 10 days. If not I will order from frogs from you as a shipping lesson!!

Steve


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

JaredJ said:


> You figure a gov't agency would have a decent computer system.


You just made me spit my soda, funniest thing I've ever read on the board.

In all seriousness, I hope the frogs make it alive.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Steverd said:


> Oh Yeah, it was you, now I remember
> You should really do a video on how to ship frogs, I would love your learn your way of packaging. Must be pretty awesome for the frogs to survive for 10 days. If not I will order from frogs from you as a shipping lesson!!
> 
> Steve


If you were to order a bunch of thumbnails from me, your would *see* my packaging methods, firsthand. 
No, I kid. Seriously, anyone who know me, knows I hold back no "frogging secrets". We have posted some on the use of Phase 22 panels. There are a lot of good threads on it. Here are a couple. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/66509-shipping-phase-panels-example.html 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/69949-phase-praise.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/16577-better-gel-shipping-tested.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...pping-temps-day-time-high-night-time-low.html

Part of the problem with just putting out an all inclusive video, are all the variables involved. A bigger box will require more packs. Thinner insulation will require more packs. Decent weather will not require as many, while extreme weather will obviously require more. Temperatures can be mixed, which can be confusing. What do you do if you are shipping out of Colorado, with lows in the 40's, into Texas or Arizona, with highs over 100 F? We've used a mix of Phase 22 panels, 2 set in solid form, and 2 set in liquid. They don't fight each other, the way a hot pack and a cold pack would. They are both trying to stabilize at about 71 F (22 C...thus the name, Phase 22). One pair absorbs excess heat and the other pair absorbs excess cold.
With the proper use of insulation and Phase 22 panels, I have shipped frogs overnight, into single digit weather, during December, and I have also shipped frogs into Arizona's 100+ degree weather. I'll use a good half dozen Phase 22 panels or 2 of the great big Saf-T-Paks, to be able to pull that off. Every time I have been able to get a recipient to check the box with an infra red thermometer gun, it has always read between about 68 to 74 F inside where the frogs are.
Of course I use Phase 22 panels on my bug shipments, too, and I've sent out more than a few of those! They are sent 2 to 3 day USPS priority, because nobody is going to cough up $50+ dollars to ship bugs. I have had wonderful results there, too, and remember, those take 2 to 3 days. If your guy prepped everything right, your frogs will be just fine. 
Is your shipper guaranteeing live arrival?


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Fedex for frogs all the way, but if USPS closes down, are you willing to pay $50 shipping for bugs?


Depending on the distance FedEx ground is very reliable 2-4 day shipping. And they can tell you exactly how long it will take.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

TerraFerma said:


> Depending on the distance FedEx ground is very reliable 2-4 day shipping. And they can tell you exactly how long it will take.


True enough, but to get the 2 day ground, I'm pretty sure they told me anything within 400 miles will qualify. I don't know of anybody who would guarantee live delivery on a 4 day shipment. You would need a bigger box with more insulation and more Phase panels. You could only ship in during nice weather. No more winter or summer bug shipments. I would have a small window in the spring, and a small window in the summer, to be able to ship bugs out of Colorado, for an expected 4 day shipment.


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## JWerner (Feb 17, 2004)

On the flip side here, I've bred darts for close to 10 yrs now and have always used USPS Express. I can recall two packages that took an extra day - out of prob 100. Usually the post office can tell you if it will take an extra day - such as if you live in a remote area. Another thing to consider, if you've done a good job packing your frogs and they are healthy, an extra day should not matter. With phase packs, insulatd boxes, 24, 48, 72 hr heat packs - frogs should be in good shape. Best advice from the post office -get your boxes there first thing in the AM - 8/9 AM. Agreed on their tracking though - not the best.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

> Fedex for frogs all the way, but if USPS closes down, are you willing to pay $50 shipping for bugs?


Depends on if I'm ordering other stuff. To me, it would be worth not dealing with them.



> You just made me spit my soda, funniest thing I've ever read on the board.


Sorry, I figure they spend so much money on everything else they'd fix that.


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## XxExoticPsychExX (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm sorry about your little froggies  I hope they get to you safe and sound.

I personally know 2 individuals that work for USPS and they're always saying how they hate working there because practically every employee is not the brightest crayon in the box, let alone a hard worker. . . And this is why I would never trust USPS with shipping anything valuable.


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

I am the one that shipped the frogs to Steve. I used usps because no one wants to pay $100+ for shipping and i do not have a current fedex account to get the reduced shipping rates. I have seen posts of members shipping usps and I have also received frogs myself in this manner with no issues. It's a lesson learned and one that will NOT be repeated. 
The box is 12x12x12 with 2 inch foam. There are two phase22 panels one on each side with half inch foam in front of them so they do not sit against the deli cups. There is four inches of styrofoam on the bottom and four inches on top. Each frog is in a small deli cup packed with pothos. 
I have been in contact with the post office since early Wednesday morning when i realized their tracking was not updated. The package left my home town at 4:06pm tuesday and then disappeared. They have no clue where it went or why it has taken almost two days to make it to Chicago (which is only two and a half hours from here). It ended up in Chicago at 4:38 am today and left there at I believe 6:36am. After the box left Chicago it agian has not been scanned since. My local post master has spent yesterday and today calling every sort facility between here and there that she can think of that the frogs may pass through. She is the one that tracked it to Chicago and was able to get them to scan the box and update the tracking and made sure it left there. If i had known she was doing this i would of had them hold the box and drove up there to get them myself and sent them through fedex. That's all the info I have so far.
Steve I am sorry for this mess. I am going to do everything I can to make this right and agian I will email if I hear anything new.
Thanks Garrick Hutchison


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

The use of 2" foam is over and above. Very nice. Two Phase 22 panels is pretty decent. The panels contain almost twice as much Phase material as the soft sided phase packs do. I've shipped plenty of frogs using 2 Phase panels. A couple of weeks ago I sent a couple out with only one Phase panel per box. (the weather was milder)
Were they prepared solid or liquid? 
Were they close to room temperature, as they should be, or were they warm or cold?
Can I ask the zip codes they are coming from and going to?
It sounds like a pretty nice packing job, all in all.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

ghutch0203 said:


> I am the one that shipped the frogs to Steve. I used usps because no one wants to pay $100+ for shipping and i do not have a current fedex account to get the reduced shipping rates. I have seen posts of members shipping usps and I have also received frogs myself in this manner with no issues. It's a lesson learned and one that will NOT be repeated.


I hear ya'. It drives me bonkers when I pass a shipping quote to people and they want to haggle on the cost. I've observed some breeders take a loss on shipping then just pad the price of the frogs. I recently had an interested party who asked me to hold a group of frogs for a week, but then changed his mind when he saw the shipping cost. He said it was too much. Three weeks later he was on Dendro complaining about a shipment of dead frogs he got from someone else. Quality shipping costs money. Amortize it over the life of the frogs, it isn't much. 

Incidently, you don't need a FedEx membership, if you use shipyourreptiles.com (site sponsor) they use FedEx, pass on the members rate to you, and offer on-time-live arrival insurance for something like $5 for every $100 worth of frog. I've never had a fatality, but I have had 2 shipments that arrived late that they reimbursed.

BTW, by all accounts that's an above average packing job and I wouldn't be surprised at all if those frogs arrive well, considering that the package is most likely lost indoors.


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

The panels were set to liquid and allowed to cool to about 73-76degrees. They left 61723 (atlanta IL) and heading to 99209 (Spokane, Wa)
The temps here for Tuesday and Wednesday were 65high and low 40's for the overnight low. Spokane temps if I remember right were high of 60 and a low of 38-42 degrees.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Honestly, I would have used 4 panels *BUT* you are using VERY thick insulation. That 4 inches of insulation on the bottom will really help block cold from seeping in, if it is put on a cold floor.
I would think you should be able to get 48 hours out of that pretty easily, and maybe longer.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Each service has their pros and cons. I personally despise Fedex. The constantly tell me my address is bad and give me attitude when I call to tell them it isn't. I have spoken with countless managers, "higher up" customer service reps, and I have even spoken with the hub supervisor that is closest to me. Each time they tell me they will resolve the problem and each time they fail to do so. 

I wish I was exaggerating, but this has happened dozens of times. I find people for a living. If I cared as much about my job as they do I would have been fired a long time ago. USPS has been very reliable comparably. 

You can't count on anybody... That is why good people try so hard to pack things really well.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Honestly, I would have used 4 panels *BUT* you are using VERY thick insulation. That 4 inches of insulation on the bottom will really help block cold from seeping in, if it is put on a cold floor.
> I would think you should be able to get 48 hours out of that pretty easily, and maybe longer.


To make sure I was clear, I'm not saying that Garrick should have used more Phase panels, I'm saying his super thick insulation should easily make up it. There are a lot of different ways to use Phase 22 panels successfully and this sounds like a great packing job.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Here's the latest...

The Chicago Scan at 4:08pm is new since yesterday.
But will a long way away from Washington state.










Steve


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Doesn't USPS just update their tracking once a day regardless of where it is? As opposed to FedEx which updates at every point along the way. 
This is the exact reason I use SYR and FedEx exclusively. Yes USPS is much cheaper, but you get what you pay for. If SYR and the insurance had been used, at least the shipping cost could have been refunded, and had the frogs arrived DOA (let's hope this is not the case) those funds could have been refunded as well.
I wish you the best of luck Steve, keep us updated.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Yeah - I HATE USPS tracking.
I've never understood why they have not made it more like Fedex or UPS. 
I know they have to loose a ton of business just for this reason alone.

*UPDATE *- the frogs are on the move - looks like I will get them TODAY!!!

Steve


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Good news, the frogs have arrived.

The bad news is I'm at work. Took 15 minutes to walk my wife through the process of how to open a box and sit the containers in their terrarium. I am glad that they where shipped with the plants like this. 
She also refuses to open the container, But at least they are in a warm place.
She said that one is moving the other wasn't, but maybe he was just sleeping, since it's dark in the box. Here's a photo she sent me! 









Another bad news, is that I didn't get to do a box opening video.. More important to get the frogs out of the box.

Steve


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## tfox799947 (Jun 4, 2012)

Thank goodness they are home.
Hopefully when you get home, you will update us on how they are doing.
Christine


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

Glad to hear they arrived! 

It's Friday, take off a bit early and go say hello to your frogs


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Shinosuke said:


> Glad to hear they arrived!
> 
> It's Friday, take off a bit early and go say hello to your frogs


Oh, I wish I could, I won't get home until 6pm Pacific time.
But the containers have a few air slits and I'll have my wife check on them and see if the other one moves any.

Thanks
Steve


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

Well I'm glad I was able to get a break at work and check DB to find out the frogs made it. I've been worried sleepless. 



Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Doesn't USPS just update their tracking once a day regardless of where it is? As opposed to FedEx which updates at every point along the way.
> This is the exact reason I use SYR and FedEx exclusively. Yes USPS is much cheaper, but you get what you pay for. If SYR and the insurance had been used, at least the shipping cost could have been refunded, and had the frogs arrived DOA (let's hope this is not the case) those funds could have been refunded as well.
> I wish you the best of luck Steve, keep us updated.


Usps is suppose to update tracking every time the package is scanned. I know for sure the tracking is updated more then once a day. And as far as shipping guarantee and insurance the usps offers both just the same as all other shipping companies. 

Steve, I'm happy you finally received your frogs. Please let me know as soon as you know they are both ok. I have emailed you my number several times asking to know as soon as you received them and if they are doing ok. They need to come out of their deli cups ASAP. Agian I apologize for the stress and inconvenience this has caused. Usps will not be used agian for shipping my frogs. If you have any questions,concerns,or just want to chew me out dont hesitate to call me anytime. Just in case you don't have my number I have just sent you a pm with it. Thanks Garrick


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Steverd said:


> Good news, the frogs have arrived.
> 
> The bad news is I'm at work. Took 15 minutes to walk my wife through the process of how to open a box and sit the containers in their terrarium. I am glad that they where shipped with the plants like this.
> She also refuses to open the container, But at least they are in a warm place.
> ...


So you're not going to quarantine them? Just straight into the viv?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

ghutch0203 said:


> Usps is suppose to update tracking every time the package is scanned. I know for sure the tracking is updated more then once a day. And as far as shipping guarantee and insurance the usps offers both just the same as all other shipping companies.


I've had more than one thing delivered after several days with no update other than the package was picked up or waiting to be picked up. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> So you're not going to quarantine them? Just straight into the viv?


Yes - they are being quarantined in there new 12x12x18 terrarium.
Is that any different than putting them in a 10 gall tank for a few weeks?

Thoughts please!
Steve


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

I have to Ed. The tracking is suppose to be updated eveytime the package is scanned but its not always the case. I guess I should have stated that the package was not tracked properly to begin with but was updated more then once
today.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

ghutch0203 said:


> Steve, I'm happy you finally received your frogs. Please let me know as soon as you know they are both ok. I have emailed you my number several times asking to know as soon as you received them and if they are doing ok. They need to come out of their deli cups ASAP. Agian I apologize for the stress and inconvenience this has caused.


Just the worse part is that I'm at work all day today. I don't have your number here, BUT I will have my wife check in with you. She LOVE, I mean LOVES talking on the phone. She will talk to you for an HOUR, I am serious. I'll see if I can talk her into at least opening the container for the frogs to jump out of. She was too scared before..

Steve


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

Ok just let me.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

My thoughts, and good husbandry practices, dictate that you should quarantine them in something other than the viv they will be eventually housed in. If something is wrong with them, say they have some sort of internal parasites, the viv you place them in will have to be torn down, sterilized and rebuilt. A sweater box with moist paper towel or moist sphagnum moss works well. It's easy to clean and all the contents are easily disposable. Quarantine them and get a fecal exam done. Quarantine them for 30 days or 3 clean fecals. This should be S.O.P. for all new acquisitions. 

How is it that in this day and age with so much information readily available on this and other forums that so many people pay no attention to quarantine procedures? I'm not singling you out, I'm just sayin' in general.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed said:


> I've had more than one thing delivered after several days with no update other than the package was picked up or waiting to be picked up.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


Ed, just within the last 6 months I have had 2 packages of bugs go out through USPS Priority. They NEVER logged into the system. I put them on the counter at the post office myself, and according to the electronic tracking system, the post office never received them. 3 days later, my customers received them. According to tracking, they never even arrived at the post office. When I began inquiries, in person, at my local branch, I was told tracking is simply a courtesy and they'll scan it if there is time, but a lot of packages go completely through the system having never had any tracking done. 
Remember my 10 day Vanzos that went out to New York? According to tracking, they still have not arrived.

Glad you got them, Steve.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Steverd said:


> She also refuses to open the container, But at least they are in a warm place.
> Steve


OMG are you serious? They're not going to bite her....jeeze.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

JaredJ said:


> OMG are you serious? They're not going to bite her....jeeze.


I know, she's a girly girl. BUT I did talk her into doing it, and the best news is that BOTH, I repeat BOTH frogs are out. She said they climbed out on their own. They are alive!! Plus I told my wife just how proud of her I was for opening a deli container!!  It's the little things in marriage.

Steve


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> My thoughts, and good husbandry practices, dictate that you should quarantine them in something other than the viv they will be eventually housed in. If something is wrong with them, say they have some sort of internal parasites, the viv you place them in will have to be torn down, sterilized and rebuilt. A sweater box with moist paper towel or moist sphagnum moss works well. It's easy to clean and all the contents are easily disposable. Quarantine them and get a fecal exam done. Quarantine them for 30 days or 3 clean fecals. This should be S.O.P. for all new acquisitions.


No seriously, thanks for the reminder. I appreciate it. It strange how quickly I forget things. I would even quarantine new plants when we would bring them into our greenhouse, and I like frogs a whole lot better than plants.

Just let a message for my local vet will do a fecal for me. They say they do exotics, but prob. not frogs. I can not find a single vet in Spokane, WA that states they care for frogs and amphibians. There's non listed online also. Might have to start using Dr Frye. Does he have a web page.

Thank you,
Steve


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...33-collecting-sending-fecals-examination.html


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Steve, hey bud here is Dr. Frye website. 
Milan Area Animal Hospital, about Milan vet clinic, M.A.A.H.

Here is the website for the member directory of the American Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians. You can look up a vet state by state.
Arav – Member Directory

Somewhat of a moot point now that they are in the viv. This shipping delay is just the sort of thing that may stress a frog out enough to make them more susceptible to some sort of pathogen.
Best of luck.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm also going to note three points,

1) shipping fecals isn't ideal since protozoal overgrowths can be missed since the majority of them may have died off (the ones that can't encyst rapidly) allowing them to be missed on diagonosis. Blood cells can decompose during transit, resulting in thier presence being missed (and these can be indicative of several parasites that can be intermittantly shed)

2) even if the local exotics vet hasn't done a lot of frog fecals or any, they are still going to be able to detect parasites in the fecal since many of the parasites that infect exotic mammals and birds have thier analogs in reptiles and amphibians.. Nematodes, flukes, tapeworms, coccidians and so forth, so even a vet/vet tech that doesn't see frog fecals routinely (or ever) can still run a diagnostic on the fecal. 

3) a huge number of the antiparasitics used in treating frogs are the exact same as the ones used for treating other animals... including but not limited to ivermectin, fenbendazole, levamisole... it is all a matter of proper dosing and administration. 

Now for the comment section... a freshly read fecal is going to be of much greater value than one that is read several days later particularly those of animals that are so small, that a smear is likely to be the method of processing it.... A freshly read fecal is always the best first choice for treatment. 

Some commets 

Ed


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

I found a local vet to do a fecal sample. He said it's $20 and will only show parasites. For a full test/culture it's $80 and they have to send it out. Does that sound right? Is the $20 test for parasites what I need?

Thank you EVERYONE.
Steve


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Testing for salmonella and some of the other potential bacteria (like Aeromonas,) are probably going to be there anyway. So there may not be a lot of value in it (talk to your vet). Parasites are important and probably should be the emphasis on the first pass but again, talk to your vet. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

AND HERE THEY ARE!!!

As you can see, they are worth the wait and trouble!
One of them has already made a home in a bromeliad.









Steve


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

glad they arrived safe and sound


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Wait - think those two images are the same from.
Notice the HEART dot over the left hip!!!

Here's the other from!









Steve


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Oh I should add the Garrick did do an AMAZING package job.
Two Phase 22 packs, thick insulation and even foil tape at the seams of the foam. I have no problems ordering frog from him again.

Garrick - please make sure you get your $44.55 back from the Post Office, that the least they can do for losing this package!!!

Steve


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Steverd said:


> Oh I should add the Garrick did do an AMAZING package job.
> Two Phase 22 packs, thick insulation and even foil tape at the seams of the foam. I have no problems ordering frog from him again.
> 
> Garrick - please make sure you get your $44.55 back from the Post Office, that the least they can do for losing this package!!!
> ...


They may or may not refund Garrick's shipping money. It is posted on their site that the USPS overnight guarantee means absolutely NOTHING on livestock. I looked that up for someone a couple weeks ago. Here it is.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...s-post-office-instead-address.html#post776329

Garrick, I agree you should try and get your money back for shipping. Don't mention that it was live. If they didn't note it, it shouldn't matter and you'll get the refund pretty easily.


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## ghutch0203 (Jun 13, 2010)

Steve I noticed that heart shape when I picked them out. I wondered if you would see it. I'm glad they are both doing ok. Thanks for the kind words. We can only learn from this and take steps to not let it happen agian. I look forward to doing business with you in the future.


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## mimic711 (Oct 18, 2012)

Beautiful Specimens!


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