# Best way to sterilize plants



## ggazonas

What is the best way to sterilize plants from possible bacteria/parasite infection in viv? Also is it worth it to sterilize them or just throw them away?


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## Frogtofall

Cuttings and bare root broms can be submersed in a weak bleach/water solution (like 5%) for 20mins and then rinsed with fresh water really well and allowed to "breathe" for a day or so.

Potted plants are tricky. You need to figure out a way to dip the foliage in the mixture while keeping the soil/root ball above the solution. I usually hang the root ball from the edge of a bucket and then fill the bucket up to the foliage keeping the root ball dry. Roots can carry things too though so if you really wanna get thorough, you can rinse all the soil from the roots and dip the whole thing. This is stressful on the plant though so be aware of that.

Its worth it to sterilize if you can't replace the plant in question. Some common thing, toss it, something more obscure, maybe worth saving.


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## skylsdale

I use two spray bottles: one with hydrogen peroxide and one with vinegar. Spray the plant with one, and then the other (doesn't matter which is first)...let it sit a few moments and then rinse with water.

In studies run at Virginia State University, pairing the two mists killed virtually all Salmonella, Shigella, or E. coli bacteria on heavily contaminated food and surfaces and, when used this way, made this spray combo more effective at killing these bacteria than chlorine bleach (I'm not knocking Antone's suggestion at all...just offering a different method I have used).

**NEVER mix the two solutions together into one container or spray bottle* as it creates peracetic acid, which can be fairly harmful (it also has different properties that either hydrogen peroxide or vinegar, and may not work the same way or as effectively at killing bacteria).


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## ggazonas

Well besides a brom the rest of the plants in the tank are quite common and things that I have been able to cuttings from a tank that has been growing out for a while now without frogs in it. So I'm gonna trash everything except the brom.

Can the brom be completely sumerged in a bleach solution?


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## ggazonas

skylsdale said:


> I use two spray bottles: one with hydrogen peroxide and one with vinegar. Spray the plant with one, and then the other (doesn't matter which is first)...let it sit a few moments and then rinse with water.
> 
> In studies run at Virginia State University, pairing the two mists killed virtually all Salmonella, Shigella, or E. coli bacteria on heavily contaminated food and surfaces and, when used this way, made this spray combo more effective at killing these bacteria than chlorine bleach (I'm not knocking Antone's suggestion at all...just offering a different method I have used).
> 
> **NEVER mix the two solutions together into one container or spray bottle* as it creates peracetic acid, which can be fairly harmful (it also has different properties that either hydrogen peroxide or vinegar, and may not work the same way or as effectively at killing bacteria).



Your method sounds great except I have to get ready to leave in the morning for Ohio (which is a 7 hour drive) and i don't have the time to get the products together tonight. Basically I want to tear the viv apart, salvage anything worth keeping and chuck everything else.


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## james67

hey there i posted some info on this awhile back and got mixed results however i believe that this technique works rather efficiently..... while bleach is good at sterilizing i personally prefer not using it, instead i use a potassium permanganate solution. potassium permanganate is sold under the brand name of permoxyn and is available through your local fish store (as well as in crystalline form from many other sources). 

most plants are quite resilient and you should be able to wash the growing meduim away from the roots with little problems. just knock the pot on the side of a counter, work bench, etc. and turn upside down. the contents should easily come out. then rinse the roots and massage them apart to get as much of the growing medium out as possible. then you simply dip (soak) them in the permoxyn solution for 30 minutes. rinse thoroughly and plant. 

both bleach and permoxyn are powerful oxidizers. and for those who question the validity of the use of KMnO4 consider this... the majority of those (that i have found) who retail indian almond leaves that have been cleaned and sterilized (which many of us use in our vivariums and tad water) use none other than potassium permanganate to sanitize their product. not to mention that this chemical has been used extensively and safely for the use of sanitizing aquatic plants for ponds and aquariums. it also has been used for parasite treatment in aquarium fish and has been used effectively as a dip by many including myself on even some of the more delicate species. 

james


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## Ed

My only issue with KMNO4 is that unlike bleach you can't neutralize it and pour it down the drain with no effects. Before it is poured down the drain, it needs to be heavily diluted and can still cause problems if you are on a septic system as opposed to a municiple system.
In addition if you are purchasing the crystals, there are other risks such as fire or burns if you aren't careful with it. Check out POTASSIUM PERMANGANATE for the list of things it shouldn't contact (like activated carbon..). 

KMNO4 has been used for many reasons in the aquaculture field (I have references in some of my books going back to the 1940s and they refer to early books) but isn't as commonly used anymore due to other materials being available. 
One of the reasons it was out of favor for awhile is because it is irritating to mucous membranes so while there is a high survivial rate when used as a dip, it does affect the eyes, and gills of fish. 

Ed


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## james67

I would like to start by saying that it is not my intention of responding in an aggressive manner; rather I am simply trying to understand why there has been such a bad response. Oh and along with the list that you mentioned it stains (sometimes permanently) anything it comes in contact with . I have personally used a dilution of the liquid form sold as permoxyn, as stated earlier, to disinfect plants with no ill effects (or none that I have noticed) and although KMnO4 has been known to have some harmful effects, such as burns when directly applied (commonly in a diluted form) to sensitive animals (specifically in the case of very ill scaleless fish in my personal experience) I personally see this chemical as being no more dangerous for use in plant sanitation than bleach (which is the primary tool of hobbyists to disinfect, or so I have seemed to encounter on these forums) when used and handled properly. I live in a municipal area where the effects on septic systems, which I was previously unaware of, do not come into play. 

I think that most of the issues that you addressed could be said about bleach as well, which is a highly corrosive substance, and can also chemically burn and also has quite an extensive list of chemicals with which it should never come in contact with, like for instance any acids or ammonia. So while mixing KMnO4 with sulfuric acid will create Mn2O7, bleach mixed with NH3 will create chlorine gas that is highly toxic. However I acknowledge that bleach may be less harmful environmentally as it will evaporate. 

In the end I think that it is an individuals responsibility to carefully read all precautions on any chemical that they intend to use especially highly corrosive materials (as in this case) 

However I did mention already that any growing medium should be removed (both as a precautionary measure to remove any H2SO4 based fertilizer that could potentially react with the KMnO4, and to provide for better sanitation)

James


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## Frogtofall

I think in reality, Pot. permanganate is more probably more of a hassle than its really worth since bleach is very easily obtainable and can be neutralized before being disposed. I think the majority of people here have plenty of experience with bleach that any of the harmful reactions it can cause are mostly gonna be avoided.

I've used KMnO4 when I worked in a lab back home in Chicago. Stuff is brutal but it does work. I just think for the average person, going to Wally world and grabbing a gallon of bleach for $5 is much easier and faster than digging for pot. permanganate and having be extremely careful with how its used.

It is nice to hear other options though. Thanks for sharing that as I never even considered it.


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## Ed

Hi James,

I have personally used a dilution of the liquid form sold as permoxyn,[/QUOTE]

The dilution is much safer to use for the average person than the crystals which you did mention in your first post that a person could aquire. 



james67 said:


> I personally see this chemical as being no more dangerous for use in plant sanitation than bleach (which is the primary tool of hobbyists to disinfect, or so I have seemed to encounter on these forums) when used and handled properly. I live in a municipal area where the effects on septic systems, which I was previously unaware of, do not come into play.


You should check with you municipal waste treatment plant as it may be a prohibited substance to pour down the drain in your area. Different muncipalities have different regulations and some may require that you pay a hazardous waste crew to deal with it. 
Bleach is safer for the average person as it is a material that is readily available, has common uses so the person has experience with it, and it can be readily neutralized. 



james67 said:


> I think that most of the issues that you addressed could be said about bleach as well, which is a highly corrosive substance, and can also chemically burn and also has quite an extensive list of chemicals with which it should never come in contact with, like for instance any acids or ammonia. So while mixing KMnO4 with sulfuric acid will create Mn2O7, bleach mixed with NH3 will create chlorine gas that is highly toxic. However I acknowledge that bleach may be less harmful environmentally as it will evaporate.


Bleach solutions unlike crystal KMNO4 while dangerous in thier own right are unlikely to start a fire if they come into contact with organics. This is a risk when using crystaline KMNO4 to make your dilutions.. In addition, while bleach is corrosive, the rate at which your skin is affected is very slow and can easily be rinsed off. 

One of the major advantages to the use of bleach is that rinsing/soaking the plant in a solution of aquarium dechlorinator will remove the chlorine and render it harmless. This is not something that can be done by the average person with KMNO4. Or if it a marginal or aquatic plant you can even place it into a water bath that is then filtered by activated carbon filter... Bleach is easily disposed of and neutralized by the average person. The average person may not be able to readily dispose of KMNO4 solutions and will not be able to readily dispose of crystals in a safe manner. They certainly cannot neutralize it themselves. 
KMNO4 as I noted above has a long history but there are some real disadvantages in its use when other more easily dealt with materials are available. 

Ed


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## james67

In response to "The dilution is much safer to use for the average person than the crystals which you did mention in your first post that a person could aquire" 

I was simply stating that if one were to be unable to get the pre-diluted solution (i.e. from a LFS which would likely need to be ordered, which could take perhaps a week), that it is also available in a crystalline form (which I assume would be more easily accessed and readily available in, for instance, a rural area where it would be sold for use in removal of H2S from well water, etc.)

They both are dangerous and the diluted solution of KMnO4 is, IMO, just as easy to use as bleach. I have had accidental spills on my hands of a 3.84% solution (permoxyn) with no trouble, other than minor staining of the skin. Yes, i agree that people have been around bleach and have heard the cautions so they, somewhat instinctively, follow them, but again shouldn't someone always look at any warnings, or cautions on ANY chemical before use. If someone is unfamiliar with something (especially any chemical)... then they should familiarize them self with it, and read the labels, or the only one to blame for a potentially dangerous accident is oneself. 

There may be a number of chemicals that are well suited for this task, however the only one mentioned (at least with any frequency) is bleach. My intentions are simply to provide information on a somewhat readily accessed chemical (with a long history of use for the sanitation of plants) that is a viable alternative to bleach. 

Thank you both for your input. I hope I never sounded hostile, as that was not my intention. I will be sure to contact the water and natural resources division of my local govt. soon.

James


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## MeiKVR6

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/33923-moss-experiments.html


^^^ It worked with moss... Idea is VERY common among florists.


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## Ed

Hi James,

Maybe my dry tone isn't conveying something here.. 



james67 said:


> In response to "The dilution is much safer to use for the average person than the crystals which you did mention in your first post that a person could aquire"
> 
> I was simply stating that if one were to be unable to get the pre-diluted solution (i.e. from a LFS which would likely need to be ordered, which could take perhaps a week), that it is also available in a crystalline form (which I assume would be more easily accessed and readily available in, for instance, a rural area where it would be sold for use in removal of H2S from well water, etc.)


My concern for safety isn't so much with the diluted version but the crystals. I've worked with KMNO4 in multiple dilutions as well as crystalline form in my time as a worker in several LFS as well as a chemist (before I moved to the Zoofield). The crystals in contact with an organic in a humid or wet enviroment can react and start a fire. This is a little different from pouring a big slug down into a well when the entire amount is used instead of a person who is going to be keeping it in a home enviroment and measuring it out over time where it can easily become contaminated with organics if the person is not very careful as well as exposed to humidity or moisture repeatedly. 

The main disadvantage to the KMNO4 dilutions is that they cannot be neutralized and then poured down the drain (like bleach). Regardless of the regulations in your muncipality, when you are pouring this down the drain, you are releasing a heavy metal ion into the water supply with all of the ramifications. This increases the burden of water pollution in a time when this is an ever increasing problem.



james67 said:


> They both are dangerous and the diluted solution of KMnO4 is, IMO, just as easy to use as bleach. I have had accidental spills on my hands of a 3.84% solution (permoxyn) with no trouble, other than minor staining of the skin. Yes, i agree that people have been around bleach and have heard the cautions so they, somewhat instinctively, follow them, but again shouldn't someone always look at any warnings, or cautions on ANY chemical before use. If someone is unfamiliar with something (especially any chemical)... then they should familiarize them self with it, and read the labels, or the only one to blame for a potentially dangerous accident is oneself. .)


Yes people should always be aware of the warning labels. For example my snow thrower comes with one that says I should never operate it on a roof  and I'm not arguing that the dilutions are fairly safe to use as long as the person is aware that it will irritate the frogs if not well rinsed. My comcerns about its drawbacks are noted above. As I noted in my first post KMNO4 has a long history of use in the aquaculture trade but there are some significant drawbacks to its use when the whole picture is examined. 
[/QUOTE]


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## Tuckinrim8

I know this is an old post but..

Ed: I have been using a five percent bleach solution and have dipped my cuttings for 20 minutes- i then let them air dry for 2 days before adding them to any of my vivs- will using a product such as amquel allow me to eliminate the last step? If i am reading your last post correctly - it renders the bleach harmless??

Thanks
Chris


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## Dane

Not answering for Ed, but after a bleach bath and a good rinse, I use a dechlorinator like Amquel, and let the plants soak for a few hours, followed by another rinse in distilled/RO. It seems to help limit the burn to sensitive foliage.



Tuckinrim8 said:


> I know this is an old post but..
> 
> Ed: I have been using a five percent bleach solution and have dipped my cuttings for 20 minutes- i then let them air dry for 2 days before adding them to any of my vivs- will using a product such as amquel allow me to eliminate the last step? If i am reading your last post correctly - it renders the bleach harmless??
> 
> Thanks
> Chris


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## Ed

Amquel will neutralize bleach. Just make sure to give it a good rinse, and then smell it. If you can still smell bleach resoak it in amquel as you might have missed a pocket in the leaf well or somewhere else. 

Ed


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## skylsdale

I've often heard/read that contact with organic material will quickly deactivate the killing and disinfecting power of chlorine bleach. Can anyone speak to the specifics of this as, if it's true, it seems a bit counter-intuitive to use it as a disinfectant for plants and enclosures?


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## Ed

skylsdale said:


> I've often heard/read that contact with organic material will quickly deactivate the killing and disinfecting power of chlorine bleach. Can anyone speak to the specifics of this as, if it's true, it seems a bit counter-intuitive to use it as a disinfectant for plants and enclosures?


Hi Ron,

There are two ways that organic material could interfere with disinfection. 
The first one is that the material may provide a shield that prevents the disinfectant from contacting organisms shielded in/under the material which is why any surfaces to be disinfected need to be throughly cleaned first. 

The reaction with organics depends on the type of organic material and the initial concentration of bleach and amount of organic available for reaction. 
For example see 
Physico-chemical properties of sodium hypochlorite

and 
NRC Information Notice 2002-07: Use of Sodium Hypochlorite for Cleaning Diesel Fuel Oil Supply Tanks

The bubbles seen from bleach solutions are ususally chlorine.. 

Does that help? 

Ed


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## Noel Calvert

heya guys. I have been reading about this Potassium permanganate, & I found a post on a different site that said De-chlorinator also works to neutralize it. 

What I am wondering is if this will work to rid soil & plants of root nematodes. It seems the other things mentioned will be eradicated easily, but this is my main worry as replacing my plants will be a long process that possibly can not be accomplished. I had thought to use alum USP, but know of no way to neutralize it. Since I am using it on an open garden situation, neutralizing it is a huge concern.

Any thoughts?


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## Frogtofall

Noel Calvert said:


> heya guys. I have been reading about this Potassium permanganate, & I found a post on a different site that said De-chlorinator also works to neutralize it.
> 
> What I am wondering is if this will work to rid soil & plants of root nematodes. It seems the other things mentioned will be eradicated easily, but this is my main worry as replacing my plants will be a long process that possibly can not be accomplished. I had thought to use alum USP, but know of no way to neutralize it. Since I am using it on an open garden situation, neutralizing it is a huge concern.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I think nicotinoids are good for soil nematodes. Are you treating potted stuff? Do you have access to them?


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## Noel Calvert

Hello Antone:
I have no idea how to obtain those here though I will have my wife check into them if they are not the nerve agents that can affect humans as well. I read about those, and since my garden is above my well for bathing & cleaning water, I will not be using that type of chemicals...Too dangerous to my family. The other stuff can be neutralized, so is a better choice for my situation. The garden is 28 square meters of open ground enclosed by a brick wall surrounding it. The environmental impact will be very small if any. 
On a side note, signs of these root nematodes infecting plants are among other things deformations in new growth, correct?

Sincerely:
Noel Calvert
BTW Antone give me a call. I need to talk to you. My phone number is in our emails.


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