# vivarium Sump?



## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

I am in the process of building a sump for a large vivarium. Is there any hardware I really want in there? i am trying to gather information about them but lots is for saltwater which is very different... Do I need a skimmer for a vivarium sump? I wouldn't think so but I thought I'd ask here.
I was thinking about a simple mechanical filter along with wet/dry bioballs, refugium and that's it! Will that be good enough?
spec wise, I estimate the amount of water in the vivarium to be around 30 gallon with only 5 swimmable for fishes, plus around 20gallon in the 30gal sump? 
So a total of 50gallon, with only couple fishes in that 5 swimmable gallon pond part.

One of the reason for the sump is obviously to keep a constant level in the vivarium but also to enhance water quality. There will be a stream going over a gemstone riverbed thingy... I don't want it to get all nasty!

Any tips would be most appreciated. Here's a drawing of my plan so far


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

That should do it....

I've heard of them being used in freshwater, but I did a quick search and there seems to be some debate on if it is pointless or not. Something to do with the water density of freshwater so they don't really do their function, but others saying they still remove film or whatever... like i said quick search, I didn't really dive into it 

I probably wouldn't bother, but I doubt it would hurt, and it might help. What you've got should be more then adequate though, skimmer or not.

Btw if you wanted you could add another refugium for springtails and isopods on the back of the tank. I think a few people have done that, kinda like a compost section where terrestrial microfuana can breed, but the frogs can't get to them and decimate the entire population in a short time, so you get a constant trickle of food into the tank.


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## Bob1000 (Jan 15, 2014)

I have been running a sump on my 180, the sump is 55 gallons for 6 months.. I find it overrated.. Im about to switch it out for a 20 gallon only because I have 2 drain holes that also add air to the 180.. I vote no sump.. Also a Vivarium is a sump in itself as long as you have a water feature that gets water changes I have found out.. I have a lazy river that wraps around the left side and front of my enclosure..


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## Bob1000 (Jan 15, 2014)

Also pond stones or pebbles do way more than bio balls which will inevitably become a nitrate sink over time


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## Bob1000 (Jan 15, 2014)

I like the idea that dendrodave brought up though the compost section that will trickle food to the frogs and allow micro fauna to reproduce safely..


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

well more water is easier to maintain.. but another major advantage of a sump is it keeps water level in the vivarium! i am just wondering what the people who uses sump uses as a filtration method in theirs.
If I am going to build a sump, might as well put some minimal effort and make it useful!
Water quality is important if you run water features.

I think skimmers are for saltwater..

There is also already some kinda plans for refugium spot like in the vivarium  It will be for terribilis tho so they usually ignore springtails and smaller isos.


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## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

Coming from the reef hobby, I would think it could be interesting to add a vegetative scrubber. Brightly light a section of the sump and add a freshwater version of Chaetomorpha.

Some Java Moss and floating Water Sprite would probably do nicely for that application...


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## lock562 (Sep 13, 2014)

Dendro Dave said it best I think a skimmer will not work. You could try a algae scrubber but I believe running it to long could take away from the aquatic plants if you choose any


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## lock562 (Sep 13, 2014)

A protein skimmer in a freshwater tank is a expensive means to oxygenate the water


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Yeah basically I was trying to find info about sumps and read about them but then I figured it was 90% related to saltwater...
I figured skimmer wasn't useful for freshwater but I was wondering about all those other gadgets...
I am trying to figure out how to build my freshwater sump for this big vivarium project!

With the information I gathered as of now, I will probably go with exactly the setup I put with the attach. except I might be using a smaller tank instead.. something like a 24x12x12 instead or maybe a 24x12x18.

I have lotso spare tanks so I can use whichever but I am starting to think a 30x12x18 might be a bit jampacked in there with the rest of the hardwares!!

I just want water quality so my stream doesn't become disgusting and for a couple of easy fishes and plants to be happy in there!


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## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

FwoGiZ said:


> I just want water quality so my stream doesn't become disgusting and for a couple of easy fishes and plants to be happy in there!


If you don't already have the sump and pump, you can accomplish this with good quality canister filter. I have an Eheim Classic hooked up to a paludarium in a 40BR. It has somewhere between 15 to 18 gallons of water in it. It stays crystal clear with five messy _B. orientalis _frogs, about 30 tetras and a ton of live plants.

Good luck either way and throw up some pics when it's done..

Scott


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

SDK said:


> If you don't already have the sump and pump, you can accomplish this with good quality canister filter. I have an Eheim Classic hooked up to a paludarium in a 40BR. It has somewhere between 15 to 18 gallons of water in it. It stays crystal clear with five messy _B. orientalis _frogs, about 30 tetras and a ton of live plants.
> 
> Good luck either way and throw up some pics when it's done..
> 
> Scott


That is extremely impressive! B. orientalis is a very messy frog I might have to get me one of these bad boys for some future projects...

John


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## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

FroggyKnight said:


> That is extremely impressive! B. orientalis is a very messy frog I might have to get me one of these bad boys for some future projects...
> 
> John


Understanding how to utilize lighting and plant selection to supplement the filter helps a lot. I will throw a few pictures up on another thread when I get a free minute.

They started out as pets for my kids, then morphed into a biology lesson when they started breeding. They are super active and entertaining, and will jump 6 inches straight out of the water to pull insects off of plant leaves...

We had so much fun with them that I modified what was then a vanilla planted tank in the living room to hold them. My kids friends love coming to watch at feeding time. The frogs go absolutely nuts...


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

SDK said:


> Understanding how to utilize lighting and plant selection to supplement the filter helps a lot. I will throw a few pictures up on another thread when I get a free minute.
> 
> They started out as pets for my kids, then morphed into a biology lesson when they started breeding. They are super active and entertaining, and will jump 6 inches straight out of the water to pull insects off of plant leaves...
> 
> We had so much fun with them that I modified what was then a vanilla planted tank in the living room to hold them. My kids friends love coming to watch at feeding time. The frogs go absolutely nuts...


I had a mudskipper like that! He would jump out of the water 6 inches or more to grab crickets from my hand. Craziest fish EVER. 

Sorry for the hijack people...

John


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

I've had Reef tanks for many years with all the fancy equipment. 
I agree a protein skimmer will be a waste. The bio balls will end up being a nitrate factory. Scott hit the nail on the head, when he mentioned the canister filter. They work great for fresh water. I would take it a step further and remove all the stuff in the filter and just put a bag of Chemi-pure in there and change it out every few months. 
Bonus: you save a Ton of space in the stand.


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks a lot once again for all the inputs guys!
Still trying to figure this sump thing out...

I am going to be using a sump instead of a canister filter for sure because one of the reason being able to keep water level constant in my vivarium!

I read mostly good things about the bioballs but not sure the nitrate factory would apply to my setup? Should I be concerned? What other means of filtration would you recommand? I was gonna stick to original plan but I am still at the drawing board right now.
Mechanical filter followed by wet/dry bioballs, then refugium and pump area. Quite simple.. seems effective enough for my needs but then again, have never tryed any of that.



Some guy on frogforum would like to see my frog room a bit so I'll try and make some up to date video some time soon so stay posted!

Meanwhile, I moved the tank inside... and now I am wondering about the sump...
Check out the video, tell me what you think! Here's a video about my concerns about what size of tank to use.. maybe some of you guys have experienced with sump and might be able to give me good tips!

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc3h5tWaEZY


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## Slengteng (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey nice build!

check this thread out, post #20! I think this is exactly what you are looking for! 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/133898-jims-display-paludarium-my-first.html


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## mwallrath (Mar 8, 2013)

Looks like you're on the right track. You may consider adding a heater to avoid temp fluctuations. It may be a bit overkill but a UV sterilizer would help with pathogens and algae.

To simplify, I use a 5 gallon bucket (square cat litter container) as a sump with a classic eheim cannister filter that return water to my viv. Very inexpensive as I already had filter.


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