# Great Stuff...?



## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Hello. I was pointed here by friends from the frog and FF. I am in the midst of making a background for my frog tank. I want to use some GReat Stuff, and make a a nice textured background. I have the coco fiber. It is going to be for a 10gal tank. What am I going to need? I will be ordering some driftwood and corkbark from the internet. And I know where to get silicone. My questions are:

1) How do I consturct it so I can remove, and put it back in?

2) Are there any good step-by-step instructions?

3) Can anyone post pics, and teach me how to do this?!

thanks,

-Ryan


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## Rythlas (Jan 12, 2009)

1) No, I don't think it would be a good idea to do it even if you could.

2) I tried to find instructions on how to do it and I couldn't find anything, you just gotta experiment a bit I guess.

I do have some tips for you. WEAR GLOVES. I learned the hard way, I was picking dried silicon and dried foam off my hands for like 2 weeks.

Also, from my experiance, if you're going to make a thicker background, do it in layers. The first time I did it all at once to the thickness I wanted it at and it ended up not curing on the inside, just the outer coat, so work in layers, let it dry before you put on another one.

Maybe try checking out the members viv section for construction journals, some get pretty in depth and you can see examples of GS at it's finest.

Did I mention you should wear gloves? Oh, and don't wear any clothing you'd like to wear in public.

Good Luck!


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah do a search for "journal" for ideas, and one of the ways people did a background that can be taken out was to cut a piece of eggcrate the size of the back wall and build the background on it


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## MukelG (Jan 29, 2009)

Removable backgrounds are possible, yes. Practical for a 10g? Not really.

Once GS dries, its VERY easy to remove it from the glass with a straight edge razorblade. I did a 'false' wall in the vivarium I'm building now using eggcrate wrapped in screen, for easy access to my pump.

I, too, will reccommend using gloves (As I type this, some GS is sticking to my fingertips) and taking your time. It's taken me about 4 days so far to coat my 45gallon 'column' tank with GS on 3 sides just the way I like it.

Basically, if you plan ahead and take your time you will be fine, but a 'removable'/'false' wall isn't really practical in a 10g.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Okay, thanks everyone. I got some interesting plants from Orchard the other day... I want to plant the stringy one on the actual wall, will it work? Here are the plant I got: Pictures by milleryan46 - Photobucket. This link will take you to my photobucket acct, with pics of my plants. How much GS will I need to do 3 side of a 10 gal? And once I have my BG in, how do I clean out the tank? Is it water proof? Will the coco fiber stick to it?

-Ryan


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

I read somewhere in a thread of a person using the waxed or glossed side of cardboard (i.e. the boxes microwaves come in) to create their great stuff wall.It should remove easily. Another idea is to use a flat piece of rigid hobby foam as the backer.
I can't stress enough about the gloves that were mentioned. I'm getting flashbacks from the hell I went through to get that crap of my hands.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Haha, I've no idea why people are all recommending gloves! As long as you're careful, it shouldn't be an issue (although, if you do get it on your skin, it can be annoying!). Putting it on egg crate or foam should make it removable.

I actually would recommend against great stuff. The issue I have with it is that it forms large air pockets, so when you're carving, you get these weird bubbles that aren't necessarily the texture you were aiming for. I use the Menards brand polyurethane foam (comes in a black bottle, but I can't remember what it's called). It's cheaper than GS and it's more dense, so it makes for better carving.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

i can't remember if it was here on DB or somewhere else, but a person was talking about how a new guy at a construction work site blew up a can of GS after shoving a nail into the tip because he was impatient about getting the foam out. he was covered in it and they told him if he ran backwards it would dry slower . that story made me want to work construction just a little bit.
i guess the moral of the story is don't shove nails into pressurized cans thinking they are like a tubing of caulk.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

I will DEFINITELY use gloves!!! I HATE getting silicone on my hands, so I will hate getting GS on my hands too. I will just go with GS because I have seen a lot of people have success with it. Easier on my part... I think I will just put background on an egg crate... IF I can get some. It is like 12bucks for a HUGE piece. I don;t want that much... SO, ummmm I am going to get some GS and silicon soon, and I will keep everyone updated.

-Ryan


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

being a 10 gal tank you could make several trying different methods and still spend little dough. Its not so easy to experiment when dealing with a large enclosure.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

So, again... Is this background going to be water-proof? And is the Coco fiber going to stick, after it getting wet???

-Ryan


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

It will be waterproof. You need to dry the coco fiber before applying it to the silicone otherwise, it won't work real well.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh ya, I know that... I will bake it too, make sure. Also, would it be better to use like brown or black silicone?

-Ryan


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I'd definitely used brown or black silicone. I think that I'd opt for brown so that places you miss won't be as obvious.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Ya, sounds good. Anyone know if I can get some from Orchard SUpply? I mean the Great Stuff. Orchard have it?

-Ryan


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## garweft (Mar 11, 2008)

I'll throw another hint in there for you. When you go to put the silicone on the GS use a cheap 2" paintbrush. It spreads the silicone OK, but it is really good for dabbing the silicone into all the little crevices. The silicone will glob up the brush a good bit, but works better than gloved fingers to get 100% coverage with silicone.

Other than that have everything ready to go once you start the silicone/ coco fiber part, and work fast. Hopefully your back ground will be mostly covered by plants anyway so don't worry about it being perfect.


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

My two cents. Do small sections at a time because the silicone will form a skin over it and the coco fiber wont stick. Doing small parts at a time will ensure that it doesnt skin over on you. Also, be ready to go back and do some touchup the next day as you will inevitably miss small sections when coco fibering the background.

-Matt


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Okay, cool. Thank everyone! So me, I walk into the Home Depot thinking that the Great stuff is going to be expensive... $3.98! It was a 16oz. can. I was thinking it was going to be really expensive!!! I am stoked. So does the stuff I use for sticking on the coco fiber HAVE to be silicone? Does latex work? It is soooo much cheaper. It is the same as silicone, just cheaper said that guy at Home Depot. Anyone?

-Ryan


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## Corwin (Dec 24, 2008)

there was an article/case study linked on this forum showing that latex was poisonous to tadpoles at the very least, so i would not use that.

found the thread, you can view it here
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sc...fect-latex-nitrile-vinyl-gloves-tadpoles.html

and the link (in the first post)
http://www.parcplace.org/Cashins_etal_2008_glovesandtads .pdf


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Oh shnap! I had no idea. That means i have to return it... Crap! Okay, well thanks i will get some plain 'ol silicone.

-Ryan


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Hey everyone! Just a thought here... Is it a good idea to have a reptile drip system to keep the plants watered?

--Ryan


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Me again... There are some trees in my front yard, and there is some ivy wrapping around them. Is there any way I can salvage and use these in my tanks?

-Ryan


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Wax Paper does work as far as removing the GS from it after it dries. Also, if you do get it on your hands pure Acetone will remove it-you can buy it at any beauty supply store. I wear gloves but always get it on me one way or another.

-Beth


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm with JP on this one. I have never had a problem getting greatstuff or silicone on my hands while making backgroungs. I think if you take your time and pay attention to what your doing the mess can be held to a minimum. I too hate to get silicone on my hands, but still go without gloves without a problem. Eggcrate is what I build all my backgrounds on and run a bead of silicone across the back to hold it in place in the tank. I haven't seen it mentioned, but a 10g is a small tank to do a 3 sided background in. I know that you already have the foam, but after working with the pond version of greatstuff I will never use the other again. Its a more dense foam that is easier to work with and its black. Pair that with brown silicone II and your missed spots are really hard to find.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys. The cork bark, driftwood, and substrate should be here next Friday at the latest. I will post pics of everything I have gotten for the BG. Even though getting the stuff on your hands is preventable, I really touch it a lot to form it where it need be, so I will DEFINI am really excited to start! What brand of solicone costs the least? I want to spend the least ammt of money and still get the right stuff.

-Ryan


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

You need to use GE Silicone II. It's gonna cost you about $5.50 a tube.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Does it specifically HAVE to be that? Or can it be just 100% pure silicone?

Thanks,

-Ryan


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## garweft (Mar 11, 2008)

you can use 100% silicone, but if it's not brown or black it will look like hell.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/36951-will-kill-my-frog.html#post329414


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/36951-will-kill-my-frog.html#post329414


Well, just like the aquarium silicone, the pond version of great stuff is fish safe. That should make a totally safe background making material I would think. The pond foam is about $9 a can.


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

The reason I asked was because there is 100% silicone for a lot cheaper than 5.50. I can get some for around 3 bucks at our local Orchard Supply.

-Ryan


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## beachbabe18509 (Oct 29, 2007)

Actually, if it is 100% pure silicone, then it's probably better than the GE Silicone II, because the Silicone II has Bio-Seal which is bad because well... 


Ed said:


> I would say that anything with Bioseal is probably not safe. The problem is that the organotin is in and of itself toxic and a known teratogen. This could in theory be a potential cause of some of the deformations that fall into the category of SLS or a failure of the eggs to develop.
> 
> Ed


I'm not sure what that means, but I trust Ed's advice... If you want to see the big long debate.. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/35720-bio-seal.html

I guess it's ultimatly your call, also there is the concrete binder method, however a jug of binder is about $20, so if your only doing a ten I wouldn't waste the money...

Also GS peels off of glass with absolutely no problem, I had a complete background set up in one of my tanks( a 10g vert) ordered a vert kit and realized the tank wasn't an AGA and had to get another tank the kit would fit, and was able to peel the entire background out in one peice and siliconed it into the new one...


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## milleryan46 (Jan 29, 2009)

Okay cool thanks. And no one seemed to answer my question about the ivy... Here it is again. In my front yard there is a huge tree, and there is some ivy spiraling up the base of it. Can I use this ivy? 

-Ryan


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## 72xmulch (Feb 22, 2009)

well. does it look like this?


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