# Culturing fruitflies with...



## gluedl (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi everyone,

lately I had a lot of trouble properly raising my fruitflíes. Sometimes yields were execeptionnal but most were not. Among my problems were black mold and some kind of parasites/mites that killed the offspring. I generally used basic growmix for fruitflies, sometimes adding a banana and mixing everything with water and vinegar. I then changed water for apple and orange juice, same unstable results.

This is now the 6th time I am successfull and I recommend it for everyone with the same issues (and now sit tight):

BY REPLACING WATER WITH BEER!!! 

I just add the bought mix until it gets pasty, into the jars, some fruitflies and the magic goes by itself. For a test I placed a new culture next to an infected one (mold) and everything worked allright.

My theory is that the alcohol is doing the magic...

Have a nice day

Gluedl


----------



## Austin P (May 13, 2009)

I dont know much about these but wouldnt the alchohal be bad for the frogs?


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

interesting....

not sure I want to waste the 1/2 gallon of beer I need for 60+ cx's 

but....

You are using full strength? not diluting in water at all?

[the alcohol would evaporate some in time in an open container, and I'd imagine also be processed by the fly -assuming they have the enzymes to do so- so i dont think it will make it to the frogs. Perhaps if feeding maggots?]

Have you tried with non-alcoholic beer yet?


----------



## d.crockett (May 27, 2009)

I am pretty clueless in the field of brewing but I am going to throw this out there anyway. It may be the yeast in the beer is out-competing the mold in the culture. The alcohol might not have anything to do with it. So do the flies from your cultures walk funny?


----------



## Dartfan83 (Dec 30, 2008)

have you just tried adding methyl paraben to your growth mix?


----------



## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

d.crockett said:


> I am pretty clueless in the field of brewing but I am going to throw this out there anyway. It may be the yeast in the beer is out-competing the mold in the culture. The alcohol might not have anything to do with it. So do the flies from your cultures walk funny?


This was initially my thought - but will only work with 'live' bottle-conditioned beer. Many commercial beers are flash pasteurized before bottling, so there isn't any live yeast.

A pinch of baker's yeast in the media serves the same function. The flies also carry a fair bit of yeast on their bodies, inoculating the culture that way.


----------



## gluedl (Oct 8, 2008)

I am actually using beer at 0.8% (forgot to mention this,...), for those worrying about "wasting" beer, last saturday I made a mixture with 50% water, results are the same till now. By the way, 60+ Cxs (a week?) is mighty impressive, I am at 12-15 a week, but I will get there soon enough.

My flies are NOT walking funny and they haven't developped a particular taste for football or chips either .

Something similar to methyl paraben (mp) is already included in the mix I buy but mp is not legal around here, you simply don´t find it...


----------



## Spectre66 (Apr 27, 2009)

Sounds like really good reason for a keg in the frog room.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Try microwaving the cultures and let them cool covered to prevent contamination. Mites can come into the cultures with the original dry media. 
Differences in production is often related to the media, for example low protien medias are going to have less production, genes can affect production as flies selected for rapid production are intolerant of ammonia (which can occur from decomposition of media or dying flies affecting production).... 

If you go back into the old ADGs, beer was suggested to rejuvinate cultures that were beginning to fail. 

Ed 



gluedl said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> lately I had a lot of trouble properly raising my fruitflíes. Sometimes yields were execeptionnal but most were not. Among my problems were black mold and some kind of parasites/mites that killed the offspring. I generally used basic growmix for fruitflies, sometimes adding a banana and mixing everything with water and vinegar. I then changed water for apple and orange juice, same unstable results.
> 
> ...


----------



## batrachiophyle (May 7, 2009)

Austin P said:


> I dont know much about these but wouldnt the alchohal be bad for the frogs?


the anaerobic cellular respiration which happens inside the culture [yeast] also yields alcohol [ethanol] as a byproduct.

the reaction can be expressed as such:

glucose --> ethanol + CO2 + energy


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There is alcohol produced in the lower levels of the culture but in the aerobic portions of the culture there isn't going to be a lot of alcohol. 

Ed


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Aaron from Aaron's frog farm has listed on his site that you can always ad beer if the culture goes a little dry, i never have done so, i rather drink it myself then share it with the fruit flies.


----------



## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

I was looking for this thread. . . 

After reading this the other night I added a few tablespoons of beer to failing cultures, and withing 48 hrs they were booming. Maybe somehow coincidental but I will definately try it again if I need to!


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

its not accidental, beer has a lot of brewers yeast in it, so its beneficial to the flies and larvae.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Julio said:


> its not accidental, beer has a lot of brewers yeast in it, so its beneficial to the flies and larvae.


That is only true of unfiltered beers (and if you shake them up...). Most commercial beers are filtered which removes most if not all of the yeast. Large batch commercial beers are also often filtered through silica gel to remove different particles to help ensure a consistent taste as well as color. 
The beer does contain carbohydrates as well as some other nutrients which help the cultures rebloom. 

Ed


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I've read this thread three times. So beer helps rejuvinate old cultures but does it help with mold? Is it being suggested then that new cultures be made with beer as well. There was also mention of a black mold. I've been told that this is actually a bacteria and can suck a culture dry.

Glenn


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogfreak said:


> I've read this thread three times. So beer helps rejuvinate old cultures but does it help with mold? Is it being suggested then that new cultures be made with beer as well. There was also mention of a black mold. I've been told that this is actually a bacteria and can suck a culture dry.
> 
> Glenn


I don't know that the beer will help with mold prevention unless you are using an unfiltered beer which will supply active live yeast which will help keep down the contaminents by competing with them. The same action is performed by the live baker's yeast added to the starting culture. 

The black mold is (if I remember correctly) a Aspergillus (maybe A. niger). 

Ed


----------



## doncoyote (Apr 20, 2005)

Just wanted to point out that gluedl's location info says Luxembourg - I don't know the situation in the Grand-Duchy, but just across the border in Belgium real beer (as opposed to yellowish grain beverage) is not unheard of.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Unfiltereds are available here as well (and I have some downstairs...) but in at least the USA, "beer" is usually filtered and pasturized.... 

Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Ed said:


> I don't know that the beer will help with mold prevention unless you are using an unfiltered beer which will supply active live yeast which will help keep down the contaminents by competing with them. The same action is performed by the live baker's yeast added to the starting culture.
> 
> The black mold is (if I remember correctly) a Aspergillus (maybe A. niger).
> 
> Ed


Interesting...someone has chosen to ding the above post as being off topic.. (and this is not the first in the last couple of days..) 

So, if the topic was on using beer to set up cultures and there was a question about not only mold.... but black mold, I fail to see how this was off topic... 
If the person who dinged me can indicate how this is off topic to the thread I would be interested in discussing how beer may or may not affect mold issues in the culture..... 


Ed


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Maybe I'll get a ding or two as well

Maybe be they're just jealous Ed becuase I see by your green dots you've been promoted to a "Four Star General" Congrats

I think culturing is very interesting and neccessary. I take this stuff seriously. I don't want a major crash months from now and have to go out and buy 20 cultures at $10.00 a pop.

Lets carry on please

Glenn


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Glen,

I take culturing pretty seriously as well... as it is a major nutritonal input into the frogs. Using beer has been mentioned before (as those who have the old ADG newsletters should know) and used in the past. It does supply some good nutrients like some of the B vitamins and carbohydrates but I think if we are looking at discouraging contaminent growths, unfiltered, unpasturized is going to be better than a generic American Beer. (I suggest those interested look up the Monty Python skit from Monty Python at the Hollywood Bowl on beer..) 

Ed


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I beleive there is a science to making quality cultures. I haven't figured it out YET. I've searched endlessly to try and figure this out. I can produce FF's. What is the nutrional value of our FF's. That I don't know as of yet. But I know it's better than some. Sugar-water-oatmeal isn't enough. We talk about gutloading crickets...What about flies. I'm curently making 24 cultures weekly but I really need 4-6 to feed our frogs. I'm experimenting with different ingredients. I'm doing this because in a few months I will need 10 cultures a week to feed our frogs. I've read so many times-

Help fruit fly culture crash

Help Mites

FF cultures needed in ......

This is not an option for Laura and I so we need to get this right before adding to our collection.

If anyone has any other ideas for quality flies please chime in. I don't think this is off topic as the OP was sharing with the rest of us some knowledge he has gained

Glenn


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Glen,

Gut loading in the hobbyist (as opposed to the classic definition) is based on the transit time through the digestive tract. Typically liquid consuming animals have a faster transit time as they have to deal with the excess water to prevent toxicity (like seen in aphids for example) which makes gut loading very difficult if not impossible... 
With respect to the nutritional needs of the flies, people need to keep in mind that the basic media does work with a dusting supplement on the flies as the food for the flies also includes live yeast which in combination is pretty good and appears to be adequate for the flies. The yeast whether supplied either from a baker's packet, the feet/body of the fly or a unfiltered unpasturized beer is one of the main source of nutrition but appears to be lacking in vitamin A as retinol and carotenoids. These need to come from a different source and there is some evidence that including them in the media may supply the frogs via stores in the flies (for example, visual pigments in the flies eyes if given access to light around 420 nm are linked retinyl esters (if I remember correctly)).... 

There are a lot of reasons for crashes, but I would hazard a guess that one of the main ones is genetics. If you use the first blooms for your ff cultures (to prevent mite outbreaks) then you are going to select flies that are intolerant of ammonia and other byproducts in the culture and these flies are very susceptiable to crashing once the first group emerges from the pupal case or the density of the larva gets high enough. Mites can be prevented through some simple precautions and keeping the newer cultures away from older cultures and/or cultures of mealworms, flour beetles, drugstore beetles, weevils or cigarette beetles as all of these cultures will contain grain mites as well as other mite species. 

Ed


----------



## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> but in at least the USA, "beer" is usually filtered and pasturized....


Not in my house. 

The vast majority of commercial beers here in the US are both sterile filtered (a 5 micron filter will remove the yeast; anything smaller can strip away flavor compounds to the detriment of the beer's flavor profile) and pasteurized en route to packaging. For those that bottle-condition (i.e. Sierra Nevada), the yeast strain from the ferment is filtered away to prevent against autolysis and fresh yeast is added before bottling. 

As a homebrewer, I regularly have yeast slurry washed and saved from batches. I've thought about adding a couple mL to my FF cultures to see how it affects production.


----------



## fraser2009 (Jan 4, 2009)

flyangler18 said:


> Not in my house.
> 
> The vast majority of commercial beers here in the US are both sterile filtered (a 5 micron filter will remove the yeast; anything smaller can strip away flavor compounds to the detriment of the beer's flavor profile) and pasteurized en route to packaging. For those that bottle-condition (i.e. Sierra Nevada), the yeast strain from the ferment is filtered away to prevent against autolysis and fresh yeast is added before bottling.
> 
> As a homebrewer, I regularly have yeast slurry washed and saved from batches. I've thought about adding a couple mL to my FF cultures to see how it affects production.


please do and post your results


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

gluedl said:


> I am actually using beer at 0.8% (forgot to mention this,...), for those worrying about "wasting" beer, last saturday I made a mixture with 50% water, results are the same till now. By the way, 60+ Cxs (a week?) is mighty impressive, I am at 12-15 a week, but I will get there soon enough.
> 
> My flies are NOT walking funny and they haven't developped a particular taste for football or chips either .
> 
> Something similar to methyl paraben (mp) is already included in the mix I buy but mp is not legal around here, you simply don´t find it...


Why is methylparaben illegal there?


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Ed said:


> Hi Glen,
> 
> Gut loading in the hobbyist (as opposed to the classic definition) is based on the transit time through the digestive tract. Typically liquid consuming animals have a faster transit time as they have to deal with the excess water to prevent toxicity (like seen in aphids for example) which makes gut loading very difficult if not impossible...
> With respect to the nutritional needs of the flies, people need to keep in mind that the basic media does work with a dusting supplement on the flies as the food for the flies also includes live yeast which in combination is pretty good and appears to be adequate for the flies. The yeast whether supplied either from a baker's packet, the feet/body of the fly or a unfiltered unpasturized beer is one of the main source of nutrition but appears to be lacking in vitamin A as retinol and carotenoids. These need to come from a different source and there is some evidence that including them in the media may supply the frogs via stores in the flies (for example, visual pigments in the flies eyes if given access to light around 420 nm are linked retinyl esters (if I remember correctly))....
> ...


I think gutloading was the wrong word. Should just have read "A healthy Fly"
You are what you eat.

So... What should be done with the media to intodruce Retinol and carotenoids?

I'm not so concerned about mite infestation as we have taken the neccessary precautions suggested by many and have had no sign of them. Although from what I understand they are on all flies. Thy fly is the host and as long as they stay on the fly they're not a problem.


Flyangler

Please post you're results using the yeast slurry. That could be very interesting.

Thanks
Glenn


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

flyangler18 said:


> Not in my house.
> As a homebrewer, I regularly have yeast slurry washed and saved from batches. I've thought about adding a couple mL to my FF cultures to see how it affects production.



The yeast slurry is going to be in large part "nutritional" or "brewers" yeast so I expect you might see an increase in production as you are increasing the protien content of the media.. but if you have it I would use it. 

Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogfreak said:


> I think gutloading was the wrong word. Should just have read "A healthy Fly"
> You are what you eat.


Yes and no.. for example ffs have a really efficient calcium excretory mechanism so thier calcium level cannot be increased... so even though they would eat a higher calcium diet, they are going to remain at homeostasis... 
The nice thing about ffs from a media is that unlike shipped insects like crickets they are not going to be deficient in some fats, protien, and minerals due to starvation in shipping and storage. 

You can have a healthy fly that is deficient in assorted nutrients.. for example as long as the fly gets sufficient carotenoids to have sufficient retinol to develop they can be blind and develop just fine..




frogfreak said:


> So... What should be done with the media to intodruce Retinol and carotenoids?


There isn't any really hard data but keeping in mind that a culture is basically an unregulated bioreactor, I add carotenoids to my media (and have for a couple of years now) specifically spirulina as this provides more than just beta carotene and have been pondering powdering and using cyclopeeze.

Ed


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I have found that if the mix of fruit/sugar is 1/4 of the solution, apple cider vinegar is 1/4, and dry media is 1/2 (potato flakes, yeast), the culture yields well and does not fail easily. I have had cultures, homemade, without MP, running for over a year on this, and they don't over- or underproduce. I'll send a recipe to any who PM me---it's my own concoction made from altering an online recipe...


----------



## fraser2009 (Jan 4, 2009)

could you post it here earthfrog that seems like something everyone would be eager to try.
if not please pm me a copy
cheers


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

It would be nice if everyone would post their medium recipes. It would help a lot of people out. Ours is simple and I can't even recall where we got it from. It produces well but is labour intensive and pricey.

Equal parts:

Bannana
Oatmeal
Applesause

A tablespoon of honey and vinegar/culture

And soon maybe some beer

We started working with a professional medium recently. It's an instant medium. Medium and water. That's it. You're done.


Glenn


----------



## fraser2009 (Jan 4, 2009)

nice recipy i suppose if you put quality in you get it out, m new to culturing so i may give this a try as im not having great success with normal mixes i bought online


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

fraser2009 said:


> nice recipy i suppose if you put quality in you get it out, m new to culturing so i may give this a try as im not having great success with normal mixes i bought online


Make sure you you some mite paper or sprays to make sure mites don't get in teh cutures. We also microvave the media after it's mixed to kill any fliers that might be in the bannana or grain mites in the oatmeal.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I use the following mix 

Dry mix 
1 cup of powdered sugar 
8 cups potato flakes 
1/2 - 1 cup of brewers yeast. 

When making cultures I add 1 tablespoon spirulina for every cup of dry mix I am using and if I have one, one old banana for every cup to cup and a half of dry media. 

I add the same amount of hot water as I do dry media and mix. I add more water if necessary to get the media to the right consistency. Microwave until media is really hot (about two minutes to 2.5 minutes/4 cultures in my microwave), cover and set aside to cool. When cool add baker's yeast, (excelsior or other substrates), and flies. 

It ends up being pennies per culture. 

Ed


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks Ed

We will be giving that one a try.

Glenn


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Mine is a 'humble' recipe, but loaded with vitamins and antioxidants nonetheless---and all without the controversial methylparaben...

In a small saucepan over medium heat, bring to a low boil two ripe organic bananas, 1/8 cup organic molasses, 1 can concentrate grape juice, 3 cups instant potato flakes, 4 cups water, 1 cup apple cider vinegar. Stir constantly to avoid burning the mixture.

Once mixture just starts to bubble, remove from heat. When mixture cools down to 110 degrees Fahrenheit or less (tepid), add 1/8 tsp. yeast and stir well. Apportion 1/2 cup's worth into each container. Garnish with enough excelsior to reach the top of the container and mash it slightly into the media. Cover and freeze for later use. Bon Appetit!

Makes 8-10 containers worth.


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

earthfrog said:


> Mine is a 'humble' recipe, but loaded with vitamins and antioxidants nonetheless---and all without the controversial methylparaben...
> 
> In a small saucepan over medium heat, bring to a low boil two ripe organic bananas, 1/8 cup organic molasses, 1 can concentrate grape juice, 3 cups instant potato flakes, 4 cups water, 1 cup apple cider vinegar. Stir constantly to avoid burning the mixture.
> 
> ...


Humble?

I think that is a nice recipe and will produce.


Oraganics. I wish I could afford to eat that well


----------



## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Ed said:


> I use the following mix
> 
> Dry mix
> 1 cup of powdered sugar
> ...


Ed, do you have any problems with mold with your mix? I used to use a nearly identical mix, but had to use a 50/50 vinegar/water solution to prevent mold. It doesn't seem to matter whether I microwave the cultures or not, they still mold over without the pH lowering agent. My wife hates the smell of vinegar, and methyl paraben appeared to greatly reduce the production of the cultures, so I now use grapefruit juice. I also use 1/3 cup dry mix per culture to 2/3 cup "wet".


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Homer said:


> methyl paraben appeared to greatly reduce the production of the cultures, so I now use grapefruit juice. I also use 1/3 cup dry mix per culture to 2/3 cup "wet".


Methylparaben has been outlawed in Europe---I wonder why we are still using it here? It is a synthetic estrogen...ah well---still learning here....


----------



## christina hanson (Feb 16, 2004)

Susan,

Could you post your source about parabens being banned in the UK? I haven't been able to find any credible info through Google.

Thanks,

Christina


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

christina hanson said:


> Susan,
> 
> Could you post your source about parabens being banned in the UK? I haven't been able to find any credible info through Google.
> 
> ...


No hard data---should've said Europe, not UK---a thousand apologies. Gluedl, the one who began this post mentioned in his second post on this thread that it was illegal in Europe---perhaps he could tell you more about it.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Homer said:


> Ed, do you have any problems with mold with your mix? I used to use a nearly identical mix, but had to use a 50/50 vinegar/water solution to prevent mold. It doesn't seem to matter whether I microwave the cultures or not, they still mold over without the pH lowering agent. My wife hates the smell of vinegar, and methyl paraben appeared to greatly reduce the production of the cultures, so I now use grapefruit juice. I also use 1/3 cup dry mix per culture to 2/3 cup "wet".


Hi Homer,

I haven't had a case of mold since I started microwaving the cultures years ago. I do place a decent amount of baker's yeast into the culture as soon as its cool which also seems to help. 

Ed


----------



## gluedl (Oct 8, 2008)

methylparaben, also called nipagin or E218 around here cannot be bought here in pure form, whereas you still can find it in cosmetics and other stuff. You still can get it in germany, but I wanted to figure out ways where I don't need it anymore. While trying to buy it here I was told that E218 was put on a black list because of allergic side effects it can have if misused by noobs...

Ed: I tried the microwave owen and it worked out partially, the results were far better then without. Thanks for the advice.

I am now raising my 7th batch with beer (filtered, cheapest stuff I can find), results: 100%, lately I have diluted it with 50% water, same results but cheaper. 

Thanks for all the inputs


gluedl


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I had heard that microwaving destroys vitamins---is this true? I would like to use it to prolong culture life if not. 
If not, microwaving in something other than plastic is probably best, too, since plastics aren't always very stable when heated by microwaves.


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Ed said:


> I use the following mix
> 
> Dry mix
> 1 cup of powdered sugar
> ...


Ed,

Are you sure that's correct on the spirulina? So you would be adding 10 TABLESPOONS to your recipe listed above? I think when you've listed your recipe in the past you've mentioned you added 1 TBS of spirulina to your 10 cups of dry mixture.


----------



## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Ed said:


> Hi Homer,
> 
> I haven't had a case of mold since I started microwaving the cultures years ago. I do place a decent amount of baker's yeast into the culture as soon as its cool which also seems to help.
> 
> Ed


Thanks, Ed. It's amazing how much variation there is based on environment and materials used. Even when I microwave the cultures, there's no way I could keep mold off my cultures without lowering the pH. I even proof my baker's yeast, and my cultures bubble with CO2 from the yeast--which does help with keeping the mold away. It must either be my coffee filters or the fact that I live in an ancient house.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

gary1218 said:


> Ed,
> 
> Are you sure that's correct on the spirulina? So you would be adding 10 TABLESPOONS to your recipe listed above? I think when you've listed your recipe in the past you've mentioned you added 1 TBS of spirulina to your 10 cups of dry mixture.


Hi Gary,

I don't add the spirulina to the mass of dry media as I have some concerns about it going rancid, I add it when I make the actual cultures, so I'm adding it to the mix with the banana so it is ten tablespoons (and I make between three and four cultures per cup of dry media). If I indicated otherwise in the past it was a misspeaking on my part. 
It is better to add it in a little bit of excess as the culture is basically a unregulated bioreactor and there is going to be some consumption by the yeast and bacteria so I add extra. 

Ed


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

GOT IT. Thanks Ed.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Homer said:


> Thanks, Ed. It's amazing how much variation there is based on environment and materials used. Even when I microwave the cultures, there's no way I could keep mold off my cultures without lowering the pH. I even proof my baker's yeast, and my cultures bubble with CO2 from the yeast--which does help with keeping the mold away. It must either be my coffee filters or the fact that I live in an ancient house.


Hi Homer,

It does sound like you have some major source of contamination for the cultures as microwaving until the cultures are really hot should kill all of the spores. Have you tried using boilling water when making up the cultures as well? Aspergillous spores are thermally sensitive to temperatures around 200 F. 

Ed


----------



## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Ed said:


> Hi Homer,
> 
> It does sound like you have some major source of contamination for the cultures as microwaving until the cultures are really hot should kill all of the spores. Have you tried using boilling water when making up the cultures as well? Aspergillous spores are thermally sensitive to temperatures around 200 F.
> 
> Ed


The mold I have to fight is Penicillium (blue to blue green). I've never had any Apergillus problems (knock on wood). Occasionally, I get a white blanket mold (don't know the genus), although it does not appear to have any bad affect on the culture. I use the plastic cups with fabric lids, so it's probably getting contaminated after the culture is made. I don't have any problems as long as the media is acidified.

I've never boiled the water, but I doubt that I'm nuking the cultures long enough to get them anywhere near 200 degrees, as the yeast is still alive after they come out of the microwave.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Homer said:


> The mold I have to fight is Penicillium (blue to blue green). I've never had any Apergillus problems (knock on wood). Occasionally, I get a white blanket mold (don't know the genus), although it does not appear to have any bad affect on the culture. I use the plastic cups with fabric lids, so it's probably getting contaminated after the culture is made. I don't have any problems as long as the media is acidified.
> 
> I've never boiled the water, but I doubt that I'm nuking the cultures long enough to get them anywhere near 200 degrees, as the yeast is still alive after they come out of the microwave.


Hi Homer, 

I add the yeast after the cultures has cooled and since I started getting the cultures hot enough its worked well for me and I haven't had any overgrowths (the white overgrowth if slimy may be a yeast overgrowth plating out on the surface). 

I use the plastic cups with the fabric lids as well and have some that have been used in this method and cleaned and reused for more than three years now. 

Ed


----------



## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Ed said:


> Hi Homer,
> 
> I add the yeast after the cultures has cooled and since I started getting the cultures hot enough its worked well for me and I haven't had any overgrowths (the white overgrowth if slimy may be a yeast overgrowth plating out on the surface).
> 
> ...


Well, I guess I'm going to have to try your method. I'll let you know how it turns out. Sunday is Flyday here (bad attempt at humor).


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Is it possible that the flies being transfered are carrying the mold spores?


----------



## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

frogfreak said:


> Is it possible that the flies being transfered are carrying the mold spores?



I guess it's possible, but where would they be picking up the mold spores if the mother culture does not have mold? I think it is more likely coming in on the coffee filters or merely spores falling out of the air.

We did a measurement of approximate mold spore density in mycology lab back in the day. You place petri dishes with different media on the bench top, and expose each dish to the air for a set period of time. The first is not exposed (control), second is exposed for 30 seconds, third for 60 seconds, and so on. You would be amazed at what pops up on those dishes from a brief exposure to the air, and each new colony represents one spore hitting the dish. There is a calculation you can do to determine the approximate densities of spores in the air from the number of colonies that occur on each dish, and you can determine whether the building should be shut down and decontaminated. Even in a very clean room, you're going to get colonies that form on those petri dishes. Fruit fly cultures aren't any different, and who knows how long the coffee filters sat in a manufacturing facility before they were packaged.


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I didn't realize your mother culture didn't have mold. The reason I posted this is because we picked up some Hydei that developed a bad mold problem. We tried over several generations to get rid of it. It did diminish a bit but we couldn't get rid of it and eventually tossed them.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Homer said:


> Well, I guess I'm going to have to try your method. I'll let you know how it turns out. Sunday is Flyday here (bad attempt at humor).


Let me know how it works for you. I use boiling water to moisten the media and then nuke it for about two minutes to get it nice and hot and let cool. It does take a couple of hours to cool but I've really had no problems with mites (that along with keeping the older and newer cultures seperate) and no fungus. 

Ed


----------



## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Ed said:


> Let me know how it works for you. I use boiling water to moisten the media and then nuke it for about two minutes to get it nice and hot and let cool. It does take a couple of hours to cool but I've really had no problems with mites (that along with keeping the older and newer cultures seperate) and no fungus.
> 
> Ed



I'll definitely keep you posted. Nuking the cultures definitely takes care of the mites--I tried everything else and determined that they were definitely coming from the potato flakes, so nuking was the answer. Mold spores are obviously tougher, so I'll try the boiling water + nuking . . . my wife may not like having FF periphernalia around for a few more hours, but I think she'll cope. Do you use coffee filters, excelsior, or other media for the flies to pupate? I really think my filters are a big source of the mold, as it usually originates from the tip of the filter where it meets the media.

By the way, thanks for verifying that the white growth was yeast. That was my suspicion, but I had not looked into it. It certainly smelled like fresh bread.


----------



## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

flyangler18 said:


> Not in my house.
> 
> The vast majority of commercial beers here in the US are both sterile filtered (a 5 micron filter will remove the yeast; anything smaller can strip away flavor compounds to the detriment of the beer's flavor profile) and pasteurized en route to packaging. For those that bottle-condition (i.e. Sierra Nevada), the yeast strain from the ferment is filtered away to prevent against autolysis and fresh yeast is added before bottling.
> 
> As a homebrewer, I regularly have yeast slurry washed and saved from batches. I've thought about adding a couple mL to my FF cultures to see how it affects production.


Wow Another Grogger who is a homebrewer


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Homer said:


> Do you use coffee filters, excelsior, or other media for the flies to pupate? I really think my filters are a big source of the mold, as it usually originates from the tip of the filter where it meets the media.


I use excelsior. 
Ed


----------



## gluedl (Oct 8, 2008)

Ok folks,


time for an update, and unfortunately not a good one. I have been using my beer cultures for a couple of months now and can now report some side effects.

Some may remerber my p. darklands, very productive little frogs. While feeding them the beer ffs, their fecals turned liquid (diarrhea??) and a whole batch of tads (6!) turned out with SLS, not a single one was healthy. 

I went back to traditional methods for ffs culturing and here we go, 3 healthy froglets out of the broms so far. So I do not at all recommend to anybody to try this too. I don't think this is a coincidence as none of the other parameters were changed, but any input would be nice!

Luckily the parents seem alright.

Have a nice day!

gluedl


----------



## pilo0024 (Aug 22, 2006)

wow. any updates on this method from anyone else?


----------

