# How Not to Ship Frogs



## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

Last week I got some frogs from a member on Canadart. Things were going great money was transfered, weather was looking good, a bit chill but hey insulating works pretty good. Anyways when I recieved the package. The frogs didnt make the trip, they were dead. Not by being frozen but from being dried out. Yes the frogs died a very slow and probably a painful death. But your probably asking wth did the frogs dried out? Well the person who shipped them didnt have a water source great enough if any to keep the humidity at 70% or higher.

































As you can see the person only shipped the frogs in with bits of leaf litter, dirt and some brom axils... Not the best of choices to try and keep humidity up. 

Reasons being. Leaves dry up fast, dirt just clings to the frogs skin, brom axils... ya more of a danger then anything. A loose large, and heavy object in a container with live frogs in transit with a great possibility of getting bounced around. ( Thumbs up )

Other ways to keep humidity up are.

Simple paper towel- I know a few people dont trust it but its a way
Sphagnum Moss- works quite well. Stays wet for long periods of time... I use it for my QT bins. Not expensive and not very heavy when soaked and if the package gets some rough transit. I think its the best choice. 

Ok lets talk about containers.

1-2 frogs max to a container. My personal thoughts. If its Tincs yes 1 frog to 1 container. thumbs and ect well thumbs are quite small but you get the picture. Use some common sense when shipping these beautiful creatures. Would you want to be cramped in a container full of your friends and family? Didnt think so. 

Deli cups are probably the best containers to use for shipping frogs. There easy, cheap, and you can find them anywhere in any size.

Now heres not what to do when it comes to lids.









Having 20+ holes in a lid with knife slits not good. Why? Humidity. With that many escape holes humidity doesnt even have a chance to stay or to build.

How many holes? 4 is a good number. 

Now Everything that we Darters do does effect are frogs in the good or bad ways. But most important part is to use common sense. You can pack your package to the nines to keep out the cold but if you just, throw in leaf litter and think that these frogs will survive a 12hr trip think again. Take the time to ask your fellow members on Canadart or Dendro or any other dart frog site. People will help you in any way possible, shipping, feeding, breeding, making a viv. You name it someone will have an answer for you, and yes we all make mistakes but we learn from those mistakes to make the next time better for you and not to make things worse between you and the person who didnt ask that question of how, and to use common sense.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Just to let you know the shipping method of choice here seems to be different. Most people I know like to use lts of leaves with a little water on the bottom to ship. Sphagnum is nice but for shipping it can kill the frogs.
J


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

That person who shipped those needs to be named.

There's no excuse for that. F'ing horrible 


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/45839-shipping-101-a.html


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

hey lance first that realy bites 2 that dried out in 12 hrs , was it a case of too many heat packs im not that far from you and temps havent been real warm latly. feel free to pm me here or canadart to save me a possible future prob like u have had.should be making a few trips to refinery row in edmonton next year let me know if u need any thing transported from the west coast out .
craig


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## Marty71 (Nov 9, 2006)

That's a damn shame. Doesn't look like they had a chance between the dirt, lack of moisture/ humidity etc..


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Lance

I can't even imagine getting all excited to get new frogs and having to deal with that...

I hope the shipper is held responsible...Crazy!!!


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## AzureFrog (Feb 3, 2009)

WOW! What a shame, those were beautiful frogs. 

I hope that this person is not a member of DB, and if they are... shame on you (you should know better than to ship frogs that way)!

Peace
Shawn


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## sNApple (Mar 19, 2007)

sorry to hear about yours frogs lance


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

Jason- Its just my thoughts on the moss for shipping, ive yet to ship any frogs so I have lots to learn for shipping so if you could pm me your methods of transporting would be awesome thanks.

For the person who shipped me the frogs, yes he is on DB. If you want his name PM me and ill let you know. 
Now as for getting my money back from him. No he hasn't, he hasn't returned any emails, or on msn, blah blah blah. 

But on the Plus side of this lil episode I had. I called up Mark Pepper to see if hes got anything new in, Well I got 4 lil froggies on order and will be here by the end of Nov. But until they get here im not gonna say what frog.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Jason DeSantis said:


> Just to let you know the shipping method of choice here seems to be different. Most people I know like to use lts of leaves with a little water on the bottom to ship. Sphagnum is nice but for shipping it can kill the frogs.
> J


Sorry to hear of the loss, Lance.
Not to discredit Jason, or the other well respected froggers that recommend against spagnum, but that is what I have been shipping in since day 1, and haven't lost any because of it, I think it is all in getting the amount of water in the moss just right, that and the amount of moss per container.
Also, ventilation holes are not absolutely necessary, even in small 4oz containers, I've had frogs shipped that way (with no holes in the container) and they arrived absolutly fine. A reason for not putting holes (other than keeping moisture in) is that it provides an added barrier of temperature fluctuation. I tend to use cups with 2-3 very small holes <1/16" and if you do use holes, they should be drilled or punched from the inside out, to avoid making a sharp point when the punch/drill exits.
As mentioned before, how Lance's frogs were shipped to him is totally unacceptable.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Lance I am sorry abou the frogs, forgot to mention that.

As for the shipping with or without sphagnum its up to whos doing the shipping. I used to ship with sphagnum until I lost frogs and from then on I only use leaves. Since then I have not lost a single frog(knock on wood). If it is done right with sphagnum everything should work out fine. Alot of times the boxes are tossed about and the moss could hold the frog down and suffocate it.
J


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## kingnicky101 (Feb 20, 2009)

Not frogs, but I am a breeder of box turtles. I ship the babies with some loose forest or sphagnum moss in a small deli container with small holes for air. I never had a problem. Then again, these are turtles not frogs, but the jerk who sold you those frogs was an idiot. Any animal that needs to be kept moist needs to be kept moist! How could he not know that the dirt would stick to the frogs like glue?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dancing frogs said:


> Sorry to hear of the loss, Lance.
> Not to discredit Jason, or the other well respected froggers that recommend against spagnum, but that is what I have been shipping in since day 1, and haven't lost any because of it, I think it is all in getting the amount of water in the moss just right, that and the amount of moss per container.


I've either been unpacking frogs that were shipped or packing frogs for somewhere close to 20 years now and I have to agree with Dancing Frog here... If the sphagnum is throughly wetted and then has the excess moisture removed, it is fine, the only way it could be a problem would be if the sphagnum (assuming it was moistened properly) was packed dense enough that the frogs could either get down into it and get trapped or as was mentioned get tossed around and trap a frog. Loosely packed wet sphagnum isn't going to trap a frog that way. 

Ed


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Honestly I'd like to see the rest of this taken care of b/t you and the seller privately.

A typical live arrival guarantee [hobby standard] should take care of 'your side' unless there are circumstances you didnt speak of.

A back and forth online publicly isnt necessary IMO for a single shipping issue.

Good luck,


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