# my large mixed viv thread



## skanderson

it has been ages since i updated my build thread since i have essentially finished building it. this will be the thread that i use to update changes in my large in wall viv that i started building last november. i will post multiple pics of the different stages of growth in this tank. i am open for discussion on any matter but would prefer not to be nagged by anti mixing folks. i respect your opinion on the matter but i am not looking for advice on the matter.
the first set of pics is from when the viv was first enclosed and frogs were added.


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## Giga

um holy crap awesome


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## skanderson

the next set of pics is from febuary of this year. first pic shows one of my 4 luecs climbing around. the frogs all climb but from most common to least high up in the branches i would list leucs, bakhuis, auratus, vittatus. with the vittatus rarely leaving the ground and never going up into the high branches.








bakhuis on the floor.








this has to be the highest my P. vittatus has ever climbed. its a good 18 inches up.








this is the dominant female vittatus' main territory. she will run other frogs out of this corner of the viv.


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## highvoltagerob

But...umm... How do you get any work done?!?!

That is large and I am very envious! What do you have in there? Is the stone wall also a water feature, I can't quite tell. Good work the tank looks real nice


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## stemcellular

sick looking enclosure. I would actually have avoided mixing those species in place of a biotope (that tank would be amazing for a terrestrial species, an arboreal species and a nocturnal glass frog species, such as vittatus/lugubris, granuliferous/pumilio, and H. valerioi...but in any case, fantastic construction.


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## drutt

One of the best..


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## skanderson

at frog day i purchased 2 Ameerga pepperi. they have been doing well with the origenal inhabitants. 
















i also added 4 bora ridge vents.


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## cschub13

Pretty damn amazing! I can't imagine the time and effort that went into this. Any calling or breeding going on!? Is there any water features in that jungle or artifical deposition sites?


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## skanderson

im trying to get up to date on all the pics then i will go back and answer questions. thanks for the kind words. may 20th pics now.


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## skanderson

a couple of full tank shots from may 20th.


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## skanderson

a few pics of what has been going on in june and july.


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## kitcolebay

Too freakin' awesome! I love it! Beautiful setup! Just getting a glimpse on my phone....can't wait to get home and see it on the big screen! Looking forward to seeing more pics and hearing your experience.
-Chris.


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## tnwalkers




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## hydrophyte

Really amazing Steve.


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## gardennub

HOLY....WOW!!!.....I don't even know what to say other than that.


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## IEatBugs

What a stunning display!
Can you comment on species interactions a bit.


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## hydrophyte

Hey Steve if you have any more room I should get you one of these _Hoffmania _(the deep burgundy plant in this photo) bushes that I have here. This could be a cool addition. It has such lush velvety foliage.


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## Buddysfrogs

Holy crap i just subscribed 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## froggies3

OMG!!!!!!!!! Thats amazing!


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## DutchScum

this thing is sooo good this is the dream of any frog keeper


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## coxdre123

All I can say is Wow!!


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## tfox799947

When I win the lottery  A set up like this would be my dream!
So awesome.


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## Brettw

That is amazing looking.

What frog is that on the second page 4th down?


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## Jellyman

Very cool. Please keep us updated. Thanks for taking the time to post pictures.


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## RYAN500

Wow. Amazing.


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## diggenem

skanderson said:


> a couple of full tank shots from may 20th.


Well...I think I just messed my pants.


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## Neodoxa

What an amazing set up. Looks great!


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## Assassynation

wow, great work!


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## Neodoxa

I just read your build thread for this viv. It's incredible that one of the trees is actually a support beam for your house! This build is amazing.


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## drutt

How do you enter the viv? amazing...


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## gluedl

BAD ASS VIV!!!!!


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## Markkk

Amazing!!!!


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## ndame88

Not sure if anyone has said this, but holy crap is that amazing!!! Great work, a top 5 all time viv.


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## skanderson

ok now for a few august pics. the viv has been a bit neglected during the summer as i have been doing alot of gardening. 
















































one more frog pic from my pond outside.


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## skanderson

ok now to get up to date with answering questions.
highvoltagerob; yes the stone wall is a water feature with both dripping and a main falls area.it drops about 2 feet so i needed to turn it way down as the splashing was causing algae on some of my nearby plants and deposits on my front glass that were a pain to keep clean.

stemcellular; i always enjoy looking at other peoples biotypic displays. i however lack the self restraint to keep the number of species down and keep all the plants from one area. im starting to plan a 300 gal planted tank and seriously trying to pick one biome and stick with it but dont think i can keep it pure. and my reef tanks have always been a bit of a mix as well. 

cschub13; there is alot of calling going on in the tank. i posted pics of the vittatus calling. also i have watched the auratus and bakhuis and luecomelas acting in a manner which i think is probably spawning related. i have seen a few eggs but no young frogs. i have 3 killifish in the pond and stream that my be predating on the tads if they are being put into the water. i am not trying to raise any young out of this system, but would enjoy observing more spawning behavior. on top of the stream and pond and all the large broms i do have one coaco hut with a petri dish under it. the auratus seem to be in that area the most, but recently 2 of them have been spending alot of time up on the back wall in one of the larger broms.


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## Dendroguy

Holy....how......what the......what in the ever living f**k, this my friends, THIS! This is really very awesome, kudos to you. Thanks for taking the time to share this piece of art with us, I'm sure the hobby as a whole can benefit from this, thanks.


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## skanderson

thanks to all for the compliments.
ieatbugs; nice screenname. i have found the interactions somewhat surprising. the main surprise is small amount of interaction that there is. nothing pays any attention to the 2 types of tree frogs in the display and they pay no mind to any of the darts. the bumblebee frogs just kind of amble around on their own schedual as well. i have once observed the dominant female vitattus wrestling with one of the toads. it truely looked like it had no idea of what was going on and just walked slowly away. she now seems to tolerate them in her area. the ameerga are the least seen of the frogs and again seem to pretty much keep to themselves. i have watched the dominant vitattus, and i can never remember where the double t is in that name, chase off luecs, backhuis, and auratus from her favorite corner, but i have seen that happen a handful of times in the 8 months they have been together. i have a hard time keeping track that all the frogs are still in the viv. i am very certain that i have lost one small bakhuis. he was slightly smaller than the other 3 when i recieved them and dropped behind them in size and always had skinny legs. im not sure of what the problem was. i was sure that i only had 2 vitattus left until my son told me he saw all 4 together at the base of the falls a few weeks ago. recently the luecs have been more cryptic than the auratus. i see auratus all over the tank and no luecs for days on end. the bachuis seem to be the most consistent frog in the display as you can always see at least one somewhere. hope this is what you were asking for. feel free to ask any questions.


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## skanderson

hydrophyte; that is a gorgeous plant and i am sure i can somewhere, somehow squeeze it in. this is what i mean about my lack of self control in keeping my viv. the plants from you in here are all doing well. my son still laughs about the time we met up on the square to buy the palms from you. he says it seemed like we were doing something illegal. i will pm you to set up a time to meet up for that and anything else im missing.


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## skanderson

brettw; the frog you are asking about was sold to me as a starry night tree frog. it is possible that i have 2 different types of starry nights but i think it is just gender.

drutt; i enter the tank through either of the 2 largest panels. they are on a track and i use a glass suction cup to hold and move them. the good news is i havent walked into an open pane of glass since january so apparently i am capable of learning. it is not as convienient as doors or slide by panels but i would be very irritated by having to constantly see the middle seam right in the middle of my view.


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## Sticky Fingers

Beautiful job. Where do you live? I think im going to schedule my next vacation to your house.


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## Pacblu202

Sticky Fingers said:


> Beautiful job. Where do you live? I think im going to schedule my next vacation to your house.


I second that! That's an awesome viv. I checked out the build thread and have a question. What is that rock in the back left made of? Or is it just rock? And someone said something about a tree being structural support for something was that a joke or is it, if so which?


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## masterkush

One of the best looking Viv's IMO! The only thing that I would do is, take out the Bamboo. They look out of place.


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## BR5

Seriously dude! I put this on my computer at work as the background, this is over the top.

Brian


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## skanderson

sticky fingers; with a name like that im not sure i want you in my house, lol. i live in wisconsin near wisconsin dells which is a huge tourist area. i would certainly be able to show the tank to anyone who is in the neighborhood if given a heads up on the time.

pacblu220; the rock wall is made of layers of styrofoam that were stacked and carved and colored. the one cork tree up against the glass on the shorter side of the viv is one of the structural supports for the house. it was sealed with multiple layers of epoxy and the put inside of a couple cork tubes that were cinched around it. it would have been nicer if it was a few more inches from the glass, but i cant move the support and if i put the glass further out in the room it wouldnt line up with the hall wall.

masterkush; your opinion on the bamboo seems to be the majority one that i hear. i mainly placed it for a habitat for my gold dust geckos. they are frequently on it. i agree if sticks out a bit and will look alot better is i get it somewhat covered with a nice shingler and more grown in, but im not ready to take it out yet.


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## stemcellular

skanderson said:


> ok now to get up to date with answering questions.
> highvoltagerob; yes the stone wall is a water feature with both dripping and a main falls area.it drops about 2 feet so i needed to turn it way down as the splashing was causing algae on some of my nearby plants and deposits on my front glass that were a pain to keep clean.
> 
> stemcellular; i always enjoy looking at other peoples biotypic displays. i however lack the self restraint to keep the number of species down and keep all the plants from one area. im starting to plan a 300 gal planted tank and seriously trying to pick one biome and stick with it but dont think i can keep it pure. and my reef tanks have always been a bit of a mix as well.
> 
> cschub13; there is alot of calling going on in the tank. i posted pics of the vittatus calling. also i have watched the auratus and bakhuis and luecomelas acting in a manner which i think is probably spawning related. i have seen a few eggs but no young frogs. i have 3 killifish in the pond and stream that my be predating on the tads if they are being put into the water. i am not trying to raise any young out of this system, but would enjoy observing more spawning behavior. on top of the stream and pond and all the large broms i do have one coaco hut with a petri dish under it. the auratus seem to be in that area the most, but recently 2 of them have been spending alot of time up on the back wall in one of the larger broms.


You might try including a small group of Epipedobates anthonyi as they would most surely breed and transport to any open water source. While the frog assortment in that tank makes my head spin I'm sure its a real sight to see. Honestly the nicest display I have ever seen, zoos, Cali Aca Sciences, includ. Well done.


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## stemcellular

Also, is it fly proof?


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## punctata

How many Flys do you go through? lol 

Awesome tank by the way


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## masterkush

skanderson, the black bamboo would blend in nice. I have some growing in my yard. If you lived in Central california I would hook you up with some.


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## skanderson

stem; yes it is fly proof. i did have a massive infestation of bean beetles this winter that i could not figure out though. once it was spring i got ready to feed my koi pond and opened my 30 pound bag of koi food. it was then about 20 pounds of koi food and 10 pounds of bean beetles. that was a good lesson on sealing the bean beetles better. the epipedobates that i have seen havent really caught my eye, but may need to look again.

punctata; i make 5 or 6 cultures of ff a week. i also have bean and rice beetles as a back up source. my viv was seeded with springs and other microfauna. i tend to feed about 3 times a week.


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## Janik

Hello, 

I just have to say: most beautiful Viv I had ever seen!!!!!

unbelievable


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## eos

Yum! Great viv. Love the progress pics.


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## BR5

How do you access it and clean the glass? I pass through that area every spring on my way to Minnesota to hunt morels and would trade some mushrooms for a quick tour next spring.

Brian


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## winstonamc

skanderson said:


> ok now for a few august pics. the viv has been a bit neglected during the summer as i have been doing alot of gardening.


Yea, way to let it go


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## cml1287

this is amazing. I'm from Madison, I'd love to see this.


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## Pacblu202

Dang I'm passing through in a few hours would have loved a quick visit along with the rest of dendro!


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## Dizzle21

Just plain beautiful...
You can definitely tell all the effort that went into this tank and it shows!

have you thought of adding geckos? such as klemmeri or williamsi?


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## Dartfrogfreak

This is an amazing viv! I really like that you can chill at your desk and enjoy it.... but uh... how do you get anything done at that desk with such a beautiful display to distract you?





Todd


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## hexentanz

skanderson said:


> ok now for a few august pics. the viv has been a bit neglected during the summer as i have been doing alot of gardening.


What is the name of the plant with the thin long green leaves in front of the bamboo in these two pictures? Is it an anthrium?


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## KC3

May I ask how you learned to construct/plant this viv? Did you do alot of research and reading before or are you actually in the career field for it? What's the secret because that is absolutely amazing!


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## apawlows

I love this viv. I subscribed to your build thread and am subscribing to this one too! 

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## skanderson

thanks will be doing a bit of cleaning up and planting in a few days and then will have some new pics to show.


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## B-NICE

This is an epic build, the best I've ever seen....


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## Ixionnyu

This looks awesome! How did you go about attaching the plants/moss to the tree and branches?


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## BlueRidge

Guys, he has a build thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/76723-big-woody.html



> um holy crap awesome


I know...right?


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## frankpayne32

Very inspiring tank! Thank you for posting and sharing it with us.


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## EricBel

Wow, this is an amazing setup! I love how you have your computer desk right there.


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## Gocubs

Stunning. How many frogs total?


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## skanderson

the total of frogs in the viv is hard to keep track of because you rarely see all of any one species at one time. to the best of my knowledge i have only lost one small bakhuis that was undersized compared to the other 3. if this is correct then i have the following in the viv. 4 auratus, 4 luecamelas, 4 vittatus, 4 bora ridge vents that i very rarely see, 3 bakhuis tincs, 2 sisa. additionally there are 4 bumblebee frogs, one gold dust day gecko, and 3 gold killifish. once i get my plants in for the winter season and have a chance to clean up and plant my new plants i will post some new pics. thanks for all the kind words.


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## moore40

UPDATE PLEASE!!!!!!!
This is an awesome viv and an inspiration for my future design.


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## Harpo

Does anyone know if this is still up and running?


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## skanderson

i do. it is still up and running. just took some pics on sunday. i am in the midst of a huge clean out. i removed 4 garbage bags of ferns and other overgrowth. it is amazing to see how much easier it is to see all the frogs. i will post the preclean out pics in a day or so just to show how bad i let it get. then will update as work gets done.


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## skanderson

ok got the pics up now. as a disclaimer it probably took 9 months of neglect to get this bad. it will take at least a couple months to get it back in reasonable shape. 


one thing neither pic shows is the fern runners that were growing out of the tank and into the room. they were able to force their way through very small gaps. once i clean the glass i will put up new pics of the halfway clean up look. in the long term i am considering a big redo that removes most of the cork trees and replaces them with built pvc/guttergard/hygolon "trees and branches" dont know if i will get to that this winter or next though. just a quick pic to show the other vivs i have been working on while neglecting this one.


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## Bunsincunsin

That's awesome! It looks pretty crazy all over-grown.


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## Dale D

Bunsincunsin said:


> That's awesome! It looks pretty crazy all over-grown.


I think it looks good too.
Nobody goes out and prunes nature.


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## Julio

wow, some viv! keep us updated on yoru trimming progress


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## Harpo

LOL, I love it! I can't wait to see further progress. This viv is fun!


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## bastimentos

That looks like it might be perfect for some O. lehmanni someday


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## jen17

Beautiful viv! Awesome!! 


Jennifer


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## chadnc

Nice builds!!!


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## snake54320

I like it better overgrown, it looks more realistic 
It probably really makes you fell "in the jungle" 
I'd be interested to have a close-up on the small very bottom right side tank of your "viv complex" (last pic) 

Regards,


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## kingfisherfleshy

Amazing. I agree that it looks better now overgrown. 

Makes me feel like I am in the jungle again and Im just looking at it through a computer screen!


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## epiphytes etc.

Dale D said:


> I think it looks good too.
> Nobody goes out and prunes nature.


Nature is constantly pruned by herbivores and the elements.


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## jacobi

epiphytes etc. said:


> Nature is constantly pruned by herbivores and the elements.


Is that a band?


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## skanderson

i think the band was herb and the elements.


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## skanderson

ok i now have most of the glass clean and about half of the overgrown weedy ferns removed. i also took out most of alocasia 'Polly'. i may yet pull the roots. i still need a few more rainy days to force myself inside for work on the viv to finish cleaning out and planting a few new plants. i will hold off on any major redesigns until next year at least as i really am getting itchy to start up my 300 gallon fw build. a few progress pics to show that i really am working on it.




more pics will come once i finish off the rest of the glass and clear the rest of the ferns.


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## skanderson

btw i just looked at the what have you got in foliage thread. the midsize palm in the center of the first picture is a cham. metalica that was the size of the one in the threads pic a year ago. given space and food they do grow.


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## Splash&Dash

I remember reading when you were first bulding and designing this ( I think it was back when I was still lurking here), and wasn't really a fan of the original lay out, but it grew in really well and looks amazing. There is another large viv that was documented on here you might like, incorporating rays and chameleons ( tough I think they did die off).

PS what are you lighting with?


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## rigel10

I've always wondered if you built this tank from scratch (with stand and all).


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## frogmanchu

Very awesome. Now if I could only do that lol.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


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## skanderson

the big viv with the rays and frogs is energys tank up in minnesota. i was inspired by it as a reef and now as a viv. i had the woodwork on the viv done by my builder and had a glass guy install the glass. all the rest is on me.


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## Dendroguy

You know what you need in that tank? A group of histos .

D


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## skanderson

sure get me even more in trouble with the mixing police. in all seriousness though i did put a small group of bora ridge imis in there and havent seen one in for months. im not sure if they are dead or just really cryptic but my feeling is they couldnt compete with the larger darts. if i do put anything thumbnail size in there it would just be some of the young of my prolific banded imis. they seem to be breeding nonstop and are on the verge of getting moved to a smaller viv than the 58 g corner viv i will be getting rid of.


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## Dendro Dave

skanderson said:


> sure get me even more in trouble with the mixing police. in all seriousness though i did put a small group of bora ridge imis in there and havent seen one in for months. im not sure if they are dead or just really cryptic but my feeling is they couldnt compete with the larger darts. if i do put anything thumbnail size in there it would just be some of the young of my prolific banded imis. they seem to be breeding nonstop and are on the verge of getting moved to a smaller viv than the 58 g corner viv i will be getting rid of.


They're probably still there. I lost a black bassleri, a much larger frog in a 75gallon. After 3 months or so I gave up, stopped putting food in the tank, then several months later was getting some moss out of the tank and he popped up. Sadly to emaciated to save, but that viv sits 6 feet to my left from the computer and I'm always at the computer, never saw or heard him for at least 6 months. A tank that size, you could easily go months without seeing them.


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## Splash&Dash

skanderson said:


> sure get me even more in trouble with the mixing police. in all seriousness though i did put a small group of bora ridge imis in there and havent seen one in for months. im not sure if they are dead or just really cryptic but my feeling is they couldnt compete with the larger darts. if i do put anything thumbnail size in there it would just be some of the young of my prolific banded imis. they seem to be breeding nonstop and are on the verge of getting moved to a smaller viv than the 58 g corner viv i will be getting rid of.


getting private hate mail?


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## rigel10

IMO, these vivs are ideal for frogs as Terribilis, always out and about, hungry and bold. About small frogs, perhaps, pumilio are a good choise - at least with pums you can hear their call and konw if they are dead or alive.


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## skanderson

noone has been rude or disrespectul at all and i appreciate that. im not advocating mixing on any basis but i think its important to openly post my findings from my experience here. with the tank cleaned a bit i have notice a bunch of tads in the pond section. i will probably pull a few and see what they morph into. i will not be selling any frogs from this viv.


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## rigel10

Although many are opposed - and I am among them - to multispecies vivs, with regard to your viv must be said that it is also very large. I would put frogs that come from the same biotope and/or they occupy different levels of the viv. Ugly and to be avoided, IMO, are 20-30-40 gallons vivs with all kinds and species of frogs - even worst frogs that can also hybridize.


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## 30994

Amazing build! Better than a T.V.


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## LongPig

I just had to say that this is absolutely incredible.


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## Triangle08

So awesome its truly insane. and be sure to post a link to the 300 fw planted build


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## skanderson

i will do so but it might be a bit delayed. origenal plan was to have it planted and up and running for company on thanksgiving. however, i think i tore my left acl today so i may have a bit of trouble getting up and into the tank for a month or so.


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## skanderson

a couple of quick pics of the 300 as of yesterday.



thanks everyone for the nice words.


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## stickingtotincs

well now seriously, how do you get any work done there ..


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## snake54320

I am breathless. This new hardscape definitely reveals your genius mind. Seriously, if there were a Nobel Prize in the dartfrog hobby you would deserve it!


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## Tazman

nice! gives me some ideas for my own build.


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## rigel10

The layout is stunning! But I like the woodwork, as you can see in the first pic. Always inspirational!
What do you plan to put in this tank?


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## botanyboy03

Amazing build. I'm blown away by this tank.


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## skanderson

the new build is for an african biotypic display. all african plants and mostly african fish. i think im going to have to compromise and put a few SA fish in for algae control as all the plant safe "algae eaters" i see from africa are essentially not available here. im planning on getting a large school of congo tetras on thursday and will have a few pairs of west african cichlids, some nice syndontis cats, and a couple more schools of small barbs or tetras.


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## rigel10

Why not Gnathonemus petersii?


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## skanderson

i know it makes me odd but ive never like any of the elephant nose clan or the african butterflyfish. those are 2 that everyone seems to advise and i think i will hold off.


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## rigel10

In fact, I would have liked also advise butterfly fish, but I could not remember the English name - and neither the Latin name. Lol!
I really like the killy fish. A friend of mine, a frogger, has a fishroom/frogroom with many species of killyfish: a unique collection here, in Italy, where killies are very rare.
But I think I understand that you prefer a biotope of Congo. Hence my suggestion.


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## toksyn

Looking nice! How about clown killies? 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4


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## CJW

Fantastic! How about an african brown knife?


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## skanderson

brown knife too big, clown killie too small. just met up with a guy who sells fish near me. he is a big fan of the west african fish and has several for sale. lots of good stocking advice tonight as well as picking up a bunch of plants and some congo tetras. hope to get the wood onto bases and the substrate in this weekend and get the leds ready to go as well. i will have to see how well my leg cooperates.


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## hydrophyte

Steve did you get that box in the mail yet?


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## Azsunspot161

Are all these frog species in the same tank?
Do you have issues with being territorial or exhibiting any aggression?


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## Equidoc2013

Azsunspot161 said:


> Are all these frog species in the same tank?
> Do you have issues with being territorial or exhibiting any aggression?


You should read through the whole thread. He has answered this question in detail at least a couple times.


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## rigel10

This is my last suggestion, I swear. What about Hemicromis? I know they are very aggressive, but they are so beautiful.


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## skanderson

for the life of me i cant remember if i got the ferns hydro. been getting alot of plants for the fw tank but i cant remember any boxes from you, but i could be wrong, have had alot on my plate with my knee trouble and everything takes 20 times longer when you are on crutches. i will be putting a hemichromis sp in the fw tank just deciding on the species and trying to keep it one of the smaller ones that is less aggressive.


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## crested

Really dig this build!! Custom pieces like this are great to see!

Can't imagine it's easy to clean?!

With it being so deep and large, and I assume not opening from the front, how do you effectively trim and clean down towards the bottom?

Can you share your misting and lighting schedule? Sorry if this was posted way back, did not see it.


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## skanderson

i mist 2 times a day in the winter and 3 a day in the summer. lights are on for 12 hours off for 12.


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## duwwi1978

Hi can you please give us the dimentions of it and what kind of light you are using please?


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## skanderson

dimensions are 9 ft long by 4 ft wide bt 5 ft high. with a bump out that is 2ft by 3 ft. it is lit by 4 8 bulb t5ho lights with a mix of cool and warm bulbs. the bump out is lit by a diy led using cool and warm white cree xml leds for a total of 24 emitters. i am going to be updating the tank in a bit this winter. may be going to all led lighting and need to get in a weed out a few pounds of ferns. also need to look into the bottom as it is plywood and has a leak. will update when im in the midst of it all.


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## FunkyDragon

That is amazing. I would love a desk like that. With openings that large, do you ever have to worry about frogs making a break for it when you are doing maintenance? And do you actually have to climb in?


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## alex111683

How do you make sure you're not accidently removing frogs when you do a big cleaning/weeding? That's the one thing I would be stressing about.


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## moore40

Double and triple check everything you take out.


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## alex111683

moore40 said:


> Double and triple check everything you take out.


True. But these frogs can be little ninjas fitting in the tightest of spaces. 

Also how do you make sure you don't step on one when you enter. Unless you use a couple little stools to step on when you clean.


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## Alphonsus

OMG. I this is one of the best vivariums out there. I love the L shape design of the tank which is what makes it so unique. It must have taken a lot of time. I also like the 300gl. If that was another terrarium for the frogs it would probably be amazing. If anyone saw this they would spend hours looking at it.


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## AlexMak

We need an update!!!


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## Jgubes0202

Omg! Envious doesn't even touch it, not even close! Been blown away by all the vivs on here but wow! I don't even know what to say. Well done sir, well done indeed


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## gltjc

This is beautiful work. 

Could you explain a bit more about how your system of accessing the enclosure works and is constructed? I don't really see how it works in this thread or the build thread, and would also love to avoid having the line down the centre of the view from overlapping sliding doors. 

Thanks!


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## skanderson

sorry about the lack of updates. the viv got way out of control with a lot of weedy fern growth. last weekend I had some help over and around 5 trash bags of plants were removed. I have now fixed the misters and am working on adding some fabric in front of the background. I need to add about 6 more large branches and I have a bunch of new broms inbound soon. will put up a couple pics of what it looks like after the plantocolypse. cant seem to find the pics to link to photobucket but when I do I will post. really looks rough though


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## skanderson

ok here are 2 poor quality pictures. will hopefully get on top of updating when I'm getting this back in shape.


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## kromar

wwuuuaaaa this tank is insane thanks for sharing this awesomeness
now i know what you can do when you have your own house, i want one

to bad you had to clear it that much, looking forward to the next progress


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## skanderson

brom order from tropiflora arrived today in good condition. pics of the broms before putting them in the viv to follow.




there are a couple of larger growing aechemeas and billbergias that will make a nice contrast to the smaller growing broms. will be getting some orchids at the show this winter, so lots of new planting to come.


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## abIngenui

I...this entire tank is incredible. I am going to have to add this to a list of things I need. I would never stop working! I would also get no work done!


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## skanderson

been placing some of the broms today. I'm really liking the open look but I will soon be starting to clutter it up due to my severe collecting problem. I am going to go out into my cedar woods tomorrow and cut another 6 or so largish branches to replace some of the smaller ones that have rotted away since I originally installed them. I'm also working on a couple of ideas to make the background look good. I may just attach a bunch or hygrolon to it but I'm going to first try injecting a clay/sphagnum mix into it in a few spots to see if I like the look and if it grows moss and other epiphytes well. a few more progress pics. first a couple pics of a starry night frog on my palm. then a couple top down shots of the left front of the tank where ive already fixed the substrate and planted a few broms and a few plants from hydrophyte. 




then 2 pics from the front with the glass open. in the hole in the bank of the stream there is an auratus that I was trying to get a pic of but he wouldn't come out with me right there.


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## skanderson

big work day today in the viv. collected cedar branches in the morning and brought them to the house. spent the afternoon plastering the epiweb with a clay mix I used on the backgrounds of smaller vivs. it was very hot and tiring work so I had to take breaks and watch the packers get crushed. then a couple of hours arranging the branches in the viv. I still have 3 more I could use but I think it would start to look too busy with more in there. I may cut them down in size and use them as verticals against the back wall if I decide to take out the bamboo. I also may place 1 or 2 smaller vertical pieces in the bump out for vines to grow up. may need to try out a few different looks and see what sticks. with the viv so empty it has been fun watching the frogs. it looks like I'm down to 2 or 3 of the auratus, bakhaus, and leucamelas. all of those look like females to me and ive never seen any of those species calling. the P. vittatus have definitely been breeding as I see a mix of sizes in there now and I did see one emerging tad about a year ago. there are at least a few tads swimming in the pond now as well. I think I will want to get males of the other species just to keep the groups going. writing this long post because I'm waiting for photobucket to upload the pics of todays work. if weather allows I will be getting a few different plant orders in this week so I should be well on my way to crowding it up again. I also found about a dozen plants in an old 75 that I threw them in about 2 years ago due to lack of space, so I will get those planted this week. first picture is the branches ive cut laid out on the back patio. no snow til tomorrow.

then 2 pictures with the background redone. it doesn't show well on the picture but is a huge improvement I look. I cant wait until mosses and small ferns are covering it.


then a few pictures with the branches in and set up. at least for now.


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## Dane

The new branches add a really nice flow to the aesthetic. Looking forward to the continued re-grow!


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## Mohlerbear

Yeah man those branches are a great touch! Looks like you have some moss growth on cedar branches, i bet that just takes off!


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
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## erikm

Love this thread!

I'm curious about your forest wood pickups. I thought cedar was toxic?


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## ReddOchtober

Wow, that is impressive. It is nice to see something planted at a large scale and allowed to grow out.


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## CMOK36

I've been to the rainforest before and it looks exactly like it! You nailed it!


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## KJM

I'm at a loss of words...

Amazing.


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## skanderson

ive read about the toxicity of cedar as well. nothing seems to be harmed by it in this viv. given it is about 1600 gallons in size there is space for any toxin to leach away but I do have around 100 pounds of cedar in there. I also clean the glass on all my tanks including my reefs with regular window cleaner that contains ammonia and use clr to get the hard water stains off the inside of the glass of this viv. the moss will take off for a bit but then seems to fade because of either the high temp or the lack of seasonality. I will be introducing some of my tropical mosses from other vivs to keep it green. I will try for some macro shots soon to show the detail of how nice the moss looks.


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## cmk

Question!! How did you trim that and put the branches in? Is there an access port im not seeing? Or do you just stand on the desk and lean in? Or do you just stand in it and go at it? 
Also, i saw that you said the vittatus are are the only ones you've 'seen' actively reproducing, are the bora ridge still in there? I think i read you had some in there at least. Are they doing well?


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## erikm

Wow! Window cleaner and CLR and frogs don't croak?



skanderson said:


> ive read about the toxicity of cedar as well. nothing seems to be harmed by it in this viv. given it is about 1600 gallons in size there is space for any toxin to leach away but I do have around 100 pounds of cedar in there. I also clean the glass on all my tanks including my reefs with regular window cleaner that contains ammonia and use clr to get the hard water stains off the inside of the glass of this viv. the moss will take off for a bit but then seems to fade because of either the high temp or the lack of seasonality. I will be introducing some of my tropical mosses from other vivs to keep it green. I will try for some macro shots soon to show the detail of how nice the moss looks.


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## fullmonti

What a major cleanup & redo! Great job! Can only imagine how much work that was.

I'm guessing a viv that big you can do many things that may not work in a smaller setup.


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## skanderson

to access the viv for maintenance I can slide the pane in front of my desk and the pane on the end to either side and lean in. I try to not step in and compress the abg mix so it involves a lot of leaning in and reaching. it is hard tiring work. I only saw the bora ridge vents for a few weeks after placing them in the viv. not sure if something ate them or they escaped or died of other causes. I do use glass cleaner, but not clr on the inside panes of my other vivs as well. I don't recommend it but ive seen no ill effects, and the glass looks really good for a week or so afterward.


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## skanderson

order from violet barn arrived yesterday while getting ready for a new years party. took some picks when unpacking them. they did an awesome job packing which meant it took forever to get them unpacked but that they were in perfect condition upon arrival. here are pics of what arrived. 



by the way the paper is not mine. it was wrapping up something I bought recently. my Spanish skills are from junior high but even then I think I know what those ads are for.


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## jarteta97

Hahahahaha! (or rather jaja) yes it does mean what you think it does. 

Plants are looking great, I've ordered from violetbarn once and I was very pleased as well.


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## Mohlerbear

I can't wait to see this thing planted, again!


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
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## skanderson

some updated pics of the plants in place. now I just need some grow in time and to continue pulling weed ferns as they emerge.
left side of viv.

a couple frogs up high.


center of viv.



the entry of the stream into the pool with a cool little syngonium, a bucephalandra, and a small bolbitis fern.

a view in and across the entire viv.

up close look at some nice foliage and I know I need some leaf litter.

another view across the entire viv.

and one more of the far left of the viv.


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## jarteta97

One word: BREATHTAKING

This is one of my favorite vivariums of all time, you are quite the inspiration


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## kromar

really really beautiful, this is going to be breathtaking once it has grown in again 
it wont be long till i will upgrade from my puny tank to something where i can put some real plants in


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## SLR

skanderson said:


> ive read about the toxicity of cedar as well. nothing seems to be harmed by it in this viv.


I've had cedar in my planted 100gal. aquarium for about 4years and has shown no ill affects.
Really nice set up,you and Wim are definitely the kings of "go big"


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## Frogtofall

It starting to look as good as it did the first go round. I'm happy to see you have some of our (Tropiflora) plants in there too! Make sure to keep an eye on the bromeliads that are planted on the floor. It looks rather wet; I'd hate to see them rot.


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## skanderson

will keep an eye on them. I did raise up the ab by putting a layer of sts under it to help with the drainage. some of the unmounted ones are just on the floor to try to get them to throw out a few roots before I move them up. the plants made it up here in perfect shape even with our bad weather.


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## skanderson

I put the macro lens on to take some fish pictures so I figured I would get a few of the viv as well. first a couple of moss pics.


the second pic has a little bulbo in it as well.
obligatory frog picture.

I really like this selanginella. when the viv was overgrown some of this type was 5 feet tall.

nice little flower.


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## austin

Very very nice man, I would love a tank like that. I love any tank though lol. That is an impressive display! Is the moss natural or did you lace it in there, if so what kind of moss is it?


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## skanderson

the moss is just what was growing on the cedar when I cut it from my woods. it seems to die out over time but I am hoping to get some tropical mosses to take it over.


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## austin

Nice, either way, looks great! Thanks for the answer.


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## skanderson

a few pictures from today after I added about a dozen orchids that I picked up at the Madison orchid show today. really was hoping for more minis and species but I guess I will have to keep looking.


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## Lake

Wow. Just wow. It looks amazing 


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## erikm

Looks fantastic!


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## suztor

Would you change anything about how you did this build?

I've built a few (much) smaller tanks but am getting ready to build a large display tank for my living room, and would really appreciate any input or feedback you would have on pitfalls you encountered. (maintenance problems, leaks, keeping clean, roots destroying things? etc.)

can you share pictures of the plumbing and such?

Thanks!


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## skanderson

I will try to get pics of the back of the viv up that show the plumbing and all this weekend. you will then see there are a couple small leaks. I'm not sure what I will do with them but they don't seem to have compromised it yet. I do think I would change what I used to keep the substrate up off the water level that is draining. things are a bit too swampy and I think it is because the geotextile fabric is clogging up and not letting water pass through fast enough. I will be cutting some slits in the fabric to try to alleviate the problem. I do think that my venting system to the base of the glass has worked well as has my close loops for air movement. in the future I will be changing out all the t5ho lights for leds but I'm not sure if I'm going to do that next winter of another year in the future. I'm awaiting 200 lumen per watt emitters with decent CRI. I would definitely be more selective about what plants I put in there and be ruthless from the get go on removing any volunteer plants. if I was curious about what they were I would grow them out in isolation. this would have avoided the mess that huge weedy fern and some climber growth caused. just before opening dendroboard this morning I was a vitatus transporting tads down to the pond but he finished off the move before I could get a pic.


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## skanderson

a few quick pics to show some of the new plants picked up at the narbc show. really nice selection from glass box tropical.


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## Lokirathehunter

Any Updates for this beauty?


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## czpana

skanderson said:


> a few quick pics to show some of the new plants picked up at the narbc show. really nice selection from glass box tropical.




What's the long shaggy moss?


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## skanderson

i need to clean out a bunch of weedy ferns and club moss and clean the glass. if I can get that done in the next couple of days I will try and get some new pics up. not sure what the moss you are talking about is. I have ordered and placed probably about 10 different mosses into here over the years. some seems to take off and others die off or slowly grow.


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## B-Lans

That is one amazing vivarium! Now I'm going to have to read through your build thread. How much maintenance do you do on a daily or weekly basis?


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## skanderson

i feed the frogs once a week. I probably pull some weedy overgrown plants once a month if I'm good. overdue on all maintenance because ive been busy with summer stuff and really stocking up my reef tank. didn't get the glass cleaned or ferns pulled yet this week but still may be able to get it done and get some updated pics up.


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## cmk

Ok, summers over. Let's see an update. How many extra frogs are running around and did you fix the leaks, fix the drainage issue and pull plants?


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## wimvanvelzen

Lots of respect for this build!
I think the addition of some vertical structures (trees or even large rocks) just behind the front windows would add some depth to the hardscape - but that is nitpicking.

Gets me in the mode of starting my new plans as well...


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## Reefluvr

This is a beautiful build. As I've mentioned to a few other builders in the past, your tank makes me wish I could shrink down to frog-size and spend a vacation there. Thank you for taking the time to post pics and updates. I'm basically a lurker on DB and learn a TON from posts like yours. I don't know how you find the time!

I live in Eau Claire and would seriously enjoy seeing this in person. If you're ever in need of some help, shoot me a PM. I'll trade labor for admission.


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## taylorwebbed

Amazing tanks! makes me want to start up a new one.


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## skanderson

thanks for all the kind words. I have toyed with the idea of some height at the front of the viv but I have a hard time figuring out where to put something what wont interfere with my access or the opening of the glass. I always cut my cedar to put in the viv in the winter to help minimize pests, so I may cut a few just to see if I can get a bit more in there. just pulled out 2 garbage bags of ferns, begonias, bamboo, and selaginellas. have to call out hydrophyte on the max height of the bamboo I picked up from him. it hit over 6 feet tall before I cut it all down. I think I have a few updated pics after the weed out that I can put on here. leak in the plywood seems to have stabilized, and I have pulled a ton of plants a few times now. really trying to get all the weedy ferns out before the drop spores, but it is amazing how fast that stuff grows. frog population seems quite stable except there are a few young P. vittatus running around. will be at narbc this weekend and will be looking for a couple small lizards or geckos, some broms and orchids, and maybe a small group of ameerga sp. I have one A. pepperi orange but lost its mate sometime in the last few years. I would either add more of the same or add a different species and pull the pepperi to move to another viv. I'm also considering going to an all led lighting for the tank. thinking of a combo of warm and cool leds using 30 watt efficient arrays. ok now some pics from today.
2 from the outside. from the short end of the viv I do have wood/ trunks in the front.


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## skanderson

a bunch of interior shots in no particular order. the only frog out and about was what I think is a A pepperi orange.


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## skanderson

love the foliage variation in the next 2 pics with and without a flash.


next one shows the frog.


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## cmk

I love all the updates. Even after you say you pull bags of plants, that Alocasia plant almost always stays the same size and the same location. I really need to keep mine trimmed, but I have my in a standard 30gal aquarium. My next frog will be the p. Vittatus. I know it's not rare, but there's just something about them I love. Still no sign of the borja ridge vents?


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## diablomantis

Wow, definitely an amazing enclosure.











What are these plants?


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## diablomantis

Picture didn't work in the last post, hopefully this one will work.











What are these plants?


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## diablomantis

I'm going to give up on pictures. In the fourth picture down what is the plant to the left of the Episcia, and what is the small round leafed plant left of the watermelon Pellionia?

Thanks,
Vladimir.


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## skanderson

not sure what plant you are talking about. I don't think I have any watermelon peperomia. in that pic I see 2 round leaved plants. if the leaf is slightly fuzzy then it is a self seeded sinningia, if it is glossy looking then it is a begonia with a red underside to the leaf. I like the begonia but it is somewhat aggressive and grows to big like many begonias.


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## skanderson

I still haven't seen the bora ridge vents in a long time. I think they died out. planning on one more group of them to see if I can keep a thumbnail in the large viv. did take a few pics at feeding time today to show I do still have frogs in the viv.


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## diablomantis

skanderson said:


> not sure what plant you are talking about. I don't think I have any watermelon peperomia. in that pic I see 2 round leaved plants. if the leaf is slightly fuzzy then it is a self seeded sinningia, if it is glossy looking then it is a begonia with a red underside to the leaf. I like the begonia but it is somewhat aggressive and grows to big like many begonias.


I looked up the plants and that is what they are, thanks. You are correct you don't have Peperomia Watermelon, but you do have Pellionia Watermelon (or Pellionia Pulchra), you have some of it by the Syngonium, and some more by the Sinningia; in an enclosure that large I think it would be pretty difficult to keep track of every plant you have in there.


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## skanderson

pretty difficult? I used to have pages of maps with everything I put in drawn on it. now I just throw out the tags and enjoy the general look. most often I can remember what something is if I really need to do so.


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## diablomantis

I see, you kept track of the plants you have in there, I am not patient enough for that.


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## DunderBear

Can I ask whats the overall dimensions of the tank? Interested in doing an even bigger tank one day. Also how do the species interact with one another?


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## rigel10

Apart from the fact that it is a mixed viv - justified by the huge size, without adoubt, although in this respect I would put in any case only a small group of terrestrial frogs and two species of arboreal frogs of different species so they cant mix, as pumilio and ranitomeya - this thread is for me a *5-star+* thread.
Greetings


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## DunderBear

rigel10 said:


> Apart from the fact that it is a mixed viv - justified by the huge size, without adoubt, although in this respect I would put in any case only a small group of terrestrial frogs and two species of arboreal frogs of different species so they cant mix, as pumilio and ranitomeya - this thread is for me a *5-star+* thread.
> 
> Greetings




With enough experience and space it would be fine to mix frogs of different species as there is no chance of then crossbreeding or hybridizing if I'm correct? The only possible issue would be aggression.


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## rigel10

Exactly the opposite, imo. Indeed, more space less chance of aggression, but the same risk of hybridization. Experience, you say? What do you mean? How can the experience of the breeder to prevent unwanted hybridization if he mixes frogs that can hybridize?
Now excuse me, but I will not say anything else about hybridization - a subject that bores me terribly.


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## DunderBear

rigel10 said:


> Exactly the opposite, imo. Indeed, more space less chance of aggression, but the same risk of hybridization. Experience, you say? What do you mean? How can the experience of the breeder to prevent unwanted hybridization if he mixes frogs that can hybridize?
> 
> Now excuse me, but I will not say anything else about hybridization - a subject that bores me terribly.




I'm confused so wait is it better to mix frogs that are of the same species as in dendrobates tincs with leucs etc vs different species like raintomeya with oophaga?


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## skanderson

I don't consider myself an advanced keeper. this is one hobby among many. I could definitely have hybrids occur. they will have no effect on anyone unless you come here and are offended by pictures. I wont let any frogs leave here. I do occasionally see signs of aggression between frogs but it is rare. the mix I have my be why I don't see any young except for the vitatus.


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## eos

One of my all time faves. Glad to see you're keeping us all updated!


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## kitcolebay

It was a pleasure meeting you at Tinley!


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## Reefluvr

I get to go see this today!!!


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## Reefluvr

Easily, by far, the most beautiful setup I've ever seen. Between the freshwater planted tank, the sw reef, the crazy, huge viv, and everything behind the scenes, I was in hobby heaven. Still smiling. Thanks for the tour skanderson. If you ever need slave labor, seriously, call me. It would be a labor of love.


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## skanderson

just a couple close up pics showing some of the new plant from NARBC.


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## skanderson

a couple pictures from today. went out to get some pictures of the nice fall colors. and a frog sat out in a perfect spot for a shot so I had to take that too.


and one of the dogs since they were looking good this morning.


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## geginn64

OK. Now this is just insanely impressive. The installation and the way it is laid out around the desk is not only functional but pleasing to the eye.
Every detail is very well thought out and meticulously constructed.


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## BiologyTeacher

:O This is next level. I love it.


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## Kmc

It is expansively wondrous, without imparting judgement though, it should be noted that a project philosophy of expendability of the inhabitants is an unavoidable reality with a system like this.


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## Mankc1

I would spend hours with a system like this! This is just spectacular!!


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