# 5 gallon?



## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

Hey all, i have a 5 gallon tank hanging around and i was wondering, could any type of dart frog be housed in there permanently? Maybe 1 vent or maybe an imi? I could make it a vert of horizantal, just wondering, im still planning on doing my 10/15 gallon vert for a pair of vents in the future, just wondering if there were any frogs that could benefit from this tank i have laying around. What about maybe 1 auratus in it horizantal wise?


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

No, I don't think any kind of adults can be housed in there - Its just too small.You can, however, use it to house froglets.


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## salvoz (May 10, 2004)

This is an issue that's come up before several times. Apart from obvious extreme cases, I think one can only speculate. However, this question always invites rather black & white responses, curiously. I don't think its possible to say, empirically, that a 5 gallon is too small for an adult frog, or for a pair of imitators, for example. There are no real guidelines here. Nevertheless, I think that a pair of thumbnails in a 5-gal is possible--so long as there is adequate cover, and the animals appear healthy and are feeding well. I know that I've bred thumnails in tanks of this size before...


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

im not even talking a pair. just 1. And if its just not a good idea, i certainly wont do it. i was just curious. i just figured, a vent or imitator or intermedius, a frog 3/4 of an inch, 5 gallons may be big enough


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

it can work fine, just most people frown upon it


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## nitsuj (Jan 21, 2007)

when I was reading the endless pumilio forums, somewhere I heard that bastis can stay alone in a 5 gal. for a long time.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Many people on this board would simply like to see people provide their animals with better conditions. 

Here are some of the problems with small tanks;

1.	-They heat up and cool down more rapidly than larger tanks.
2.	-They do not provide as many micro climates, thereby making it more difficult for the frogs to thermoregulate and osmoregulate.
3.	-They dry out more quickly than larger tanks.
4.	-There is less room for food to move about without crawling on the frog, which is stressful to the frog.
5.	-They do not provide much space for microfauna to multiply, This means that there will be less for the frog to forage on if you get busy for a few days.
6.	-With multiple frogs there is insufficient space to get out of the sight of an aggressor.

So, basically you can do what you want, but you are not doing the animal any favors by putting it in a 5 gallon tank. Like Tyler suggested you could use it to house a juvenile or two but bigger is almost always better.


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## Skibadee (Mar 22, 2007)

I think you could find another use for the 5 gallon instead of frogs which would be awesome for everything


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

yeah, im not going to do it knowing that the frog wouldnt be happy in it. if its just barely enough space for the frog, then i definetely wont put one in there.


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## salvoz (May 10, 2004)

I absolutely agree that large tanks are less suceptible to environmental flux and are generally more forgiving. However, things are getting a tad bit arbitrary here, that's all. I wish all my vivs were walk-in. But we are not comparing a 5 gallon with a 50 gallon enclosure, are we? Let's be honest, is a 10-gal, which is the standard enclosure for breeding pairs of even larger darts, really all that much better than a 5 gallon tank for even one adult thumbnail? Or are 10 gallon tanks just as inappropriate too? How big of a tank is necessary to provide "good" conditions if we are so certain that a five gallon is too small for any adult frog, even a thumbnail species? If we are comparing a 10-gal to a 5-gal, then things like thermal inertia and microfauna production are just not going to be that different. I may personally believe that a pair of azureus shouldnt be kept in a tank less than 30 gallons, but I certainly wouldnt frown on anyone successfully keeping them in 20, or 10 gallon tank.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Salvoz,

Basically, we are arguing the same point but since I like to argue…..

I think you have to give beginners an easy guide. Sure you can keep a frog in a 5 gallon tank. Some people can do this better than others though. A ten gallon is inadequate for a lot of the frogs that are kept in 10 gallon tanks, for many, if not all of the reasons that I listed above. Many people successfully keep tinc pairs in 10 gallon tanks. Many more kill tinc pairs in 10 gallon tanks. Granted the frog killers are mostly beginners but who knows, if they started out with larger tanks, they might (as a group) kill fewer frogs, and have longer stays in the hobby. Just look at the turnover that we have on this board.

I think a good recommendation is 5 gallons minimum per frog with the smallest tank size being 10 gallons. 10 gallons per frog is preferable especially for the larger frogs. This is easy for newcomers to remember and helps them to get off to a conservative start. Why cram frogs into small containers. IMHO it’s much better to breed one species in a large tank than to collect/cram 10 species into small enclosures. 

By the way, I’m currently building a 55 gallon azureus tank :wink:


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## chandlermonster (Mar 8, 2007)

...so ten gallons is a bare minimum for two frogs? I just built a ten gallon viv and have been letting it settle for the last two weeks. I plan to buy two leucs next week from a local breeder... Originally I had requested three to improbe chances of getting a breeding pair, but decided that there would be more space for two. Should I downsize my order again to one?


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## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

I hope this question isn't going too far off topic.


Has anyone seen more activity or more of their frogs in larger tanks as opposed to a smaller one? What about a 20-30 gallon as opposed to a 50-70 gal?


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Chandler,

If you are getting froglets, you can put three leucs in a 10. I would be prepared to cut the number down to two once they are around a year old. Leucs are usually fairly mellow about being placed in groups, so with juveniles you should be O.K. with a 10 gallon horizontal (not a vertical). Bigger would just be better. I keep two female leucs in 37 gallon tank. I don’t see them using all of the space but I don’t spend that much time watching them.


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