# Thought I got lucky...



## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

The new Azureus pair I picked up from Patrick Nabors got frisky within the first two hours of meeting each other! A few days later, I had a large clutch of 8 eggs. 2 were bad, 1 was suspicious, but 4 looked great!

I took out the obvious bad eggs that first day.
The suspicious egg turned bad the next day but I left it in since it was so close to another egg. (none of the eggs were really bunched together) All 4 remaining eggs started to develop. The lone bad egg frosted over and it looked like the fungus (or whatever caused the cloudiness) spread into the egg next to it. That egg died a few days later.

The last 3 eggs developed all the way until they looked more than ready to hatch.
Then.... nothing....
I tried to stimulate them with gentle water misting but it only gave me false hope. (the water caused two of the eggs to swirl around and I thought it was the tad moving on its own...) Should I have helped them out of the egg? 

Clutch 2 had two good eggs and they're doing well so far (should hatch later this week)

Clutch 3 I decided to leave in the tank for awhile to see if it helps any.

Since this is their first clutch, I expected the worst but thought the three were gonna make it to tadpole at least. I guess there are several common development stages where things can go bad.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

It takes awhile for a new pair's eggs to be strong enough via the mother's nutrition so that they may withstand the onslaught of fungus. The membranes are kept strong by protein and vitamin A, so the mother frog needs longer in order to build up her stores in these two things. 

Also, the tank needs good airflow through it to minimize saprolegnia or other white fungal growth. Buildup of this is not only bad for eggs but can cause lesions on the frogs. It is often only an issue if there is a lot of waste left on areas sitting in dank air and constantly wet without being wiped off, as well as old substrate in their viv (like the same sphagnum being left on top of the soil until it is dark brown and slimy, etc).


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

On the first clutch, I noticed something.
Either the egg deteriorated or one of the tads hatched. There was no movement but I decided to place him into a tad cup anyways (java moss, duckweed, almond leaf, water that was a week old).
The next day another tad looked the same. (looked dead but the egg looked dissolved) I tossed him into the same cup as the first 'dead' tad.

2 days later I noticed the last egg/tad in the same shape and just figured the first clutch was a total loss. 
I gave the last tad a "burial at sea" (translated as flushed....) and cleaned out the petri dish thoroughly.

Another 3 days has passed and I figured it would be best to clean out the tad cup that housed the two tads I tossed in earlier in the week. (don't want to dirty up the incubator box). Problem is... they wiggled away from me! 

Looks like my 'dead' tads were actually faking me out?
Now I feel bad about the third.
(don't look at me if there is a mutant blue frog-zilla roaming L.A. next year....)









Is this what to expect from future clutches or is this due to young parents?
(weak, barely able to survive eggs)


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

It's normal for tads to be slow to move when they feel a predator is about (you). On the other hand, they likely had hatched and were being still until a parent could pick them up. If they wriggle too much after hatching out, they could risk falling off their leaf to the jungle floor, so their instinct is to remain still. 

Also, don't flush frogs/eggs/tads. It could contribute to the spread of chytrid/disease. If the frog is dead, you could remove him, place him in a ziplock bag and discard in the trash, or put him in everclear to preserve him in the fridge for a necropsy by a vet to determine cause of death. 
But don't flush him or toss him outside---not good for the ecosystem.


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

Thanks for the tips @earthfrog
I'll make sure to do my part.

What about cleaning out the old petri dish?
(mine are plastic)


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Just rinse out with regular water, scrub with your hands or an old rinsed-out toothbrush. use soap on it, it's not necessary and could leave residue that's not good for the eggs if it's not the 'right kind' of soap (with fragrance added, based on petroleum, etc.). Baking soda is good for scrubbing if there is hard debris on it. I soak in warm water and use baking soda for that sort of thing. Rinse completely afterwards in either case, and let dry thoroughly.


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## Crikkifrogger (Sep 19, 2009)

agreed, i'd try and stay away from soap. That could introduce unwanted chemicals, contaminating your eggs and reducing your success.


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## ctenosaur (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for the information and sharing your experience. I keep 0.0.2 azureus, but have been eyeing Patrick's posted pairs.


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## kylesmoney (Mar 29, 2010)

earthfrog said:


> Just rinse out with regular water, scrub with your hands or an old rinsed-out toothbrush. use soap on it, it's not necessary and could leave residue that's not good for the eggs if it's not the 'right kind' of soap (with fragrance added, based on petroleum, etc.). Baking soda is good for scrubbing if there is hard debris on it. I soak in warm water and use baking soda for that sort of thing. Rinse completely afterwards in either case, and let dry thoroughly.


Is it also important to use something like a bleach water on the petri dishes before rinses down the sink, could it also spread chytrid in the same way an egg could?


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

kylesmoney said:


> Is it also important to use something like a bleach water on the petri dishes before rinses down the sink, could it also spread chytrid in the same way an egg could?


Anything that holds moisture can spread chytrid unless it is a disease-killing agent. Chlorinated water is less likely to do that if the water goes to a water-treatment plant, but it's remotely possible. It's more a risk if you chuck it outdoors first. 
Simply letting the petri dish dry completely first will kill any chytrid. Then you can wash it out.


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## kylesmoney (Mar 29, 2010)

earthfrog said:


> Anything that holds moisture can spread chytrid unless it is a disease-killing agent. Chlorinated water is less likely to do that if the water goes to a water-treatment plant, but it's remotely possible. It's more a risk if you chuck it outdoors first.
> Simply letting the petri dish dry completely first will kill any chytrid. Then you can wash it out.


Thanks!


8 characters


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

The lesions are easy to treat but are annoying and mine stopped breeding when they had them. Happened from stagnant conditions. I have provided at least a few inches of airflow screened and along with medication I solved this issue.

Don't worry about eggs going bad. Good eggs stay good and bad eggs go bad. Takes them a while to get it right. Seems like clutches wasted and you'll blame yourself for a while, but there's nothing you can do.

I agree, Vitamin A seems key. Repashy Calcium plus has really helped all around for all my frogs. It's all I used now. I dropped my dendrocare, herptevite, and rep cal rotation. It's really awesome.




earthfrog said:


> It takes awhile for a new pair's eggs to be strong enough via the mother's nutrition so that they may withstand the onslaught of fungus. The membranes are kept strong by protein and vitamin A, so the mother frog needs longer in order to build up her stores in these two things.
> 
> Also, the tank needs good airflow through it to minimize saprolegnia or other white fungal growth. Buildup of this is not only bad for eggs but can cause lesions on the frogs. It is often only an issue if there is a lot of waste left on areas sitting in dank air and constantly wet without being wiped off, as well as old substrate in their viv (like the same sphagnum being left on top of the soil until it is dark brown and slimy, etc).


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## Jarhead_2016 (Jan 7, 2010)

IMO with my Azureus pair the tads are totally still for the first 4-5 days and sometimes even longer and i thought they were dead but they start moving after a couple of days 
-scotty


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