# Some beginner questions on new vivarium...



## Lunatuck (Apr 15, 2021)

I have a new 18x18x24 vivarium showing up in the next few days along with all the required substrates, plants, cleanup crew and decor to set it up. I have a design in my mind for the viv where there will likely be a spray foam background with cork rounds and flats applied to give it some depth. I have 4 gallons of ABG mix showing up, but am wondering if I can add reptibark to the ABG mix. I'm a little concerned that my 4 gallons may not be enough for the hill I'm planning towards the rear and by adding some reptibark (and maybe more loose sphagnum moss and peat moss), I may be able to increase the overall volume of mixture I'm working with and also add some texture. The thing is, my reptibark is larger chunky pieces. Maybe 1/2" or so on average. I've read that reptibark is ok, but haven't seen a lot of it used in the base substrate. 

I'm also reading that sphagnum moss doesn't seem to be suggested as a top layer any longer. I do have leaf litter, so I can substitute that, but can I still use little bits of sphagnum moss to accent areas? I've used it in the past to wrap plant roots and mount them into holes in my cork. 

Last question is about the foam background. Since my tank is 24" high, is a spray foam background the best way to create more usable vertical space? I noticed biodude doesn't tend to use foam, but most of the best designs I see on youtube incorporate it.

Thanks in advance and any other tips are appreciated.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

These are some good questions! 

I'll start with the background question: all my tanks have cork mosaic style backgrounds. You can use this to create extra ledges, space, for the frogs. I also incorporate a ramp and other ledge in most of my designs. Here's my favorite tank (36x18x24" Ranitomeya sirensis tank, but the same ideas would work for tinctorius with the right scale applied, another note this was when the tank had first been setup, the plants have grown in a lot, making more hiding places for the frogs):









The cork that extends into the tank will provide additional usable space for the frogs. 

I don't have any exposed terrestrial sphagnum moss in my tanks, it keeps things just too wet in my experience. I only use sphagnum moss as part of my cork mosaic backgrounds.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Welcome, Lunatuck! 

You can stretch your ABG with Reptibark (it's probably in there already), but I am guessing you won't have to. 4 gallons is quite a bit for a tank that size, even with some sloping. 

Like FG said, sphagnum is not really needed as a layer in your substrate, but it can be useful as you described to wrap around plant bases. Not sure what you mean by "accent". I don't find it so attractive that it adds to the aesthetics. If you are talking about trying to grow it, I would advise against it mostly because it needs wetter conditions than are good for the frogs. Anytime I have it growing in my tanks, it is a signal to me to back off on watering/misting. 

I don't use spray foam in any of my builds anymore because DendroDave's cork bark mosaic method works so well for me. I just silicone (using aquarium safe silicone) a mosaic of cork flat pieces to the back with 1 inch(ish) gaps between and jam sphagnum (the garbage kind from Home Depot or Lowes so I don't have to worry about it growing) into the gaps. This negates the need for spray foam and gives a complete surface where plants can grow (they kind of avoid spray foam surfaces, even when covered in substrate, especially after a while when the substrate starts to come off). You can also incorporate cork rounds or other branches to further add 3D protrusions. I also like to use Manzanita (or Ghostwood, or cork rounds, or Malaysian Driftwood, or...?) branches to come utilize the empty spaces in the tank so that frogs can better use the space. They are also a great attachment point for epiphytic plants.

Best of luck,

Mark


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## Lunatuck (Apr 15, 2021)

Thanks for the tips and especially the info about the cork mosaic method. It looks a lot like what I'm planning. I'm almost surprised it's only silicone and no foam as it has so much depth. 

I do have a bag of that "garbage" (and it is) sphagnum moss from home depot left over from a different project and I could see using that. How exactly does it stay in between the cracks? Do I mix it with the abg? 

When I said "accent", I basically mean at the base of some plants that need the wrap and maybe to cover any unnatural looking spots. This will be the dead sphagnum that is included in the package I bought. 

I didn't know live sphagnum requires different humidity then the frogs. Glad you mentioned that. I'm guessing there is a list somewhere of more appropriate mosses?

I currently have a bunch of cork rounds and pieces, but am probably going to drive around looking for a nice piece of driftwood, grapewood or some other wood to add another texture and be a bit of a focal point as my cork pieces are more stumplike and not branchy. But I really need to see it in person rather then taking my change mail order. The few stores I went to seemed to be sold out.


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## Pepepepe (Aug 30, 2020)

For the background there’s loads of options from foam with silicone and coco fiber, cork and hygrolon. That depends what your ideas are on what you want for a background.

For plants I would always use live plants as they are nicer, keep more humidity and its more natural.

What dartfrogs are you planing on getting? I would always start with tincs or leucs.


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## Lunatuck (Apr 15, 2021)

Pepepepe said:


> For the background there’s loads of options from foam with silicone and coco fiber, cork and hygrolon. That depends what your ideas are on what you want for a background.
> 
> For plants I would always use live plants as they are nicer, keep more humidity and its more natural.
> 
> What dartfrogs are you planing on getting? I would always start with tincs or leucs.


Tincs are the current plan as I'm trying to stick with a larger beginner species. I do have to satify my wife and kids, so it may change, but won't go with anything not suggested for beginners.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

A tip for substrate hills and valleys: 

If you're using eggcrate as a false bottom, you can either stack layers of it or make little boxes attached to the false bottom. Then you don't need to buy as much ABG and it's less substrate to get saturated.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Broseph said:


> A tip for substrate hills and valleys:
> 
> If you're using eggcrate as a false bottom, you can either stack layers of it or make little boxes attached to the false bottom. Then you don't need to buy as much ABG and it's less substrate to get saturated.


This, 100%. Don't waste mounds of expensive ABG when you can just modify your false bottom.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Broseph said:


> A tip for substrate hills and valleys:
> 
> If you're using eggcrate as a false bottom, you can either stack layers of it or make little boxes attached to the false bottom. Then you don't need to buy as much ABG and it's less substrate to get saturated.


And it's less heavy if you have to move the tank


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Lunatuck said:


> Thanks for the tips and especially the info about the cork mosaic method. It looks a lot like what I'm planning. I'm almost surprised it's only silicone and no foam as it has so much depth.
> 
> I do have a bag of that "garbage" (and it is) sphagnum moss from home depot left over from a different project and I could see using that. How exactly does it stay in between the cracks? Do I mix it with the abg?
> 
> ...


Yeah, the cork mosaic is really simple, works well, and is very durable. You just jam the sphagnum into the cracks hard while it's wet then as it dries, it will harden up a bit and take up space. It really works well for plant roots.

You don't need to mix the sphagnum with ABG. It's fine as it is. And, it works much better on the walls than as a layer on the ground because it doesn't matter if it retains moisture up there because the frogs aren't forced to walk on it all the time.

Your idea of accent would work just fine. That's how I use sphagnum in my tanks, too (and for the cork mosaics  

Most, if not all, commercially available mosses require conditions that are too wet for frogs IF you are growing them throughout the tank. You can still target certain areas with moss that are naturally wetter, though, especially up off the substrate. It's mostly folks that want the whole tank to be green that are keeping the tanks too wet for most dart frogs species.

Yes, that is a good idea to drive alone and see it in person. The pandemic has increased demand and decreased supply, so lots of places are out of stock. NO GRAPEWOOD, though. It will rot relatively quickly in moist, tropical vivarium conditions.

Mark


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Lunatuck said:


> Last question is about the foam background. Since my tank is 24" high, is a spray foam background the best way to create more usable vertical space? I noticed biodude doesn't tend to use foam, but most of the best designs I see on youtube incorporate it.


It seems that many people actually like making foam backgrounds, and that's fine. I don't, though, and I think it is simple to make lots of vertical space without them, like in these vivs. 

Just another option for you.


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## Lunatuck (Apr 15, 2021)

Thanks. I do have some egg crate somewhere.

I am still back and forth on the foam. Due to the shapes and sized of cork bark rounds I have, I feel like I need some volume holding them together at the bottom mid-section of the tank. The tank is currently sitting at the bottom of my driveway, so once I get home I'll be able to actually test out some designs.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Fingers crossed that it's in one piece!

Mark


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## Lunatuck (Apr 15, 2021)

Encyclia said:


> Fingers crossed that it's in one piece!
> 
> Mark


That was my first thought when I saw the package was 59 lbs.


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## Frog&Toad (Nov 21, 2015)

Encyclia said:


> Yeah, the cork mosaic is really simple, works well, and is very durable. You just jam the sphagnum into the cracks hard while it's wet then as it dries, it will harden up a bit and take up space. It really works well for plant roots.
> 
> You don't need to mix the sphagnum with ABG. It's fine as it is. And, it works much better on the walls than as a layer on the ground because it doesn't matter if it retains moisture up there because the frogs aren't forced to walk on it all the time.
> 
> ...


I was thinking of having cork bark sparsely siliconed to the background and then using GS to fill in around them. I was hoping to then silicone peat moss onto the GS foam after it cures and I chop it up. Would this work as well?


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## Lunatuck (Apr 15, 2021)

Frog&Toad said:


> I was thinking of having cork bark sparsely siliconed to the background and then using GS to fill in around them. I was hoping to then silicone peat moss onto the GS foam after it cures and I chop it up. Would this work as well?


That’s basically what I do, but I dont silicone them in first. I use the foam to hold them. I also use a mix of peat, sphagnum moss and bark for my backgrounds. It gives it more depth and texture. The more sparse the cork is, the more interesting the background needs to be.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah, you can do foam instead, but plants don't particularly like foam in my experience, so I like to use more organic materials to make the background. To each his or her own.

Mark


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Lunatuck said:


> That’s basically what I do, but I dont silicone them in first. I use the foam to hold them. I also use a mix of peat, sphagnum moss and bark for my backgrounds. It gives it more depth and texture. The more sparse the cork is, the more interesting the background needs to be.


I agree with @Encyclia, plants don’t really like foam covered in a peat mix. The point of the cork mosaic is that there is LFS stuffed in all the cracks, which makes a deep, moist pocket for roots to establish. I have had a hell of a time getting things growing on my background (and I keep my tank pretty wet), so I’m definitely trying out the cork mosaic technique next time.


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