# What is the secret to growing moss?



## Triangle08 (Nov 1, 2012)

Ok ive had my 12x12x18 exo terra setup for at least 8 months now and my growth rate is nothing compared to alot of peoples plants. Granted it took me awhile to get the watering dialed in properly and ive seen more growth as of late. I have 1 14 watt LED fixture from Tincman. When i was seeding the tank with moss i used the Folius moss mix and just kind of flicked it around as best i could. Sadly i only saw good growth in one area.

Ideas of why it failed:
Humidity not steady enough? 
Could the opening on the door and the vents at the base of the door cause the humidity to drop too much?
Cocofiber silicone seems to have fallen off significantly in most areas. Could this result in not enough moisture for the moss?

Tired of the pity party with myself for not having a nice tank so trying to get things figured out. I recently bought some spyra and put folius on a small sample to see how well it grows. Any additional insight would be awesome.


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

The first thing that jumped out at me when I looked at your pictures was the fact that the patch of moss that seems to be thriving is in the highest light area of your tank. I have never used folius mix before but in my experience with other mosses the more light the better. I would recommend bumping up the lighting a lot to 30 or even 50 watts of LEDs. This may seem like a lot but even filtered sunlight in the jungle is a lot brighter than you think. I have personally never had problems with too much light in a viv. You could also try some different mosses. Maybe Java moss because it can grow in lower light conditions. I used the NEHERP moss in my most recent viv and so far it has been the easiest moss to grow.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

I think you want to have more ventilation, for the plants and frogs in general, and don't try to go sealing up the vents around the doors to try and increase the humidity.

I have had success growing moss in mine - I hand mist it so I can get more water to certain plants. I mist the mosses 2X/day, so they never really dry out. AND I've noticed the other big factor for success is for the moss to have a lot of light. The darker areas of my vivarium the moss hasn't grown as well, or hasn't grown at all. I'm not knowledgeable on lighting to try and calculate PAR values or any of that, but my #1 idea for what you could do to get that moss to grow is put it high up on your wall instead of the floor of your vivarium (that appears to be where you have it, from the 2nd picture - can't tell if you have it anywhere else).

Good luck,
Thane


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

My first time growing moss was in my SI viv. As others have said light and humidity play an important role. I believe air circulation is important too. I had passive and mechanical circulation in my viv and the moss grew well. Now that its established (a little over a year of growth) its still doing well with just the passive ventilation. Its almost growing too well. 

I used aquatic mosses, sheet moss and Kyoto moss to seed my viv. I also have a pillow type moss that grows out of the zoo med forest tiles and a different type that grows out the tree fern. Moss is growing every where in my viv even in places I didn't put it Sadly all of it will be eventually be devoured by creeping fig . 

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Haven't found ventilation to be important for moss growth. It grows just fine for me in bottle terrariums with no ventilation whatsoever. Consistent moisture and light have been the biggest factors ime.


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## SwampMan (Jun 26, 2015)

what kind of substrate and drainage do you have at the bottom and how deep is it? 

I've had no problems grown moss at the bottom of a 24" tank with 2-13watt LEDs, I just keep it damp.

Most spike moss' are shade loving. They would probably work very well at the bottom of your tank provided you kept them from drying out.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

You should increase light. One problem with those E27 base fixtures is they concentrate the light up in the middle instead of spreading it out evenly. So the light levels at your moss might be less than you would think, on top of that any leaves will cast a harsh shadow blocking light. But at the same time the light levels will be very high right under the light possibly burning plants. This is why I think it is very valuable to get fixtures which space the LEDs out more over the top of the tank. More angles for light to come from, a more even spread and even lighting. This is especially important for small tanks where there isn't much room so people tend to try to only use 1 light.


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## Triangle08 (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. I think my biggest factor may even be my watering. i had read alot of posts about hand spraying only like two sprays. which ive come to find definitely does not work for me. i may bump my watering to two times a day. and maybe i can try raising my light up a bit. right now the light sits about 6 inches above the top of the tank. too bad i cant fit any optics on the leds to get a better spread. Definitely going to look into some different mosses. thanks for the suggestions!


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## chin_monster (Mar 12, 2006)

The part that jumped out at me was the peeling silicon n peat layer. Silicon is not a friendly substrate to moss -I happen to like it and it's simplicity. But if there are mold inhibitors in things like GE II. The peeling up is another concern, which shouldn't happen -something went sideways. Bad silicon? etc

Having said all of this moss isn't exactly the easiest thing to set out (want) to grow -at least for me. It limps n sputters (n sometimes / mostly fails) along until I give up on the lush mossy bank idea and just concentrate of the more macro plants. And sooner or later things just click into place n the moss decides it's time to take over the world so to speak.

Water, light, air movement and patience (which prolly should be moved to the front of the list).

It may well be simply that (provided condition are adequate) that it simply takes time to flush away the residual "toxins" from new background builds that finally are llow the mosses to take off, but there does seem to be an initial, upfront hard spot w/ moss


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I didn't read anyone's responses but judging by how leggy your plants are (the stretchiness) you don't have enough light. The other problem is gonna be that to get enough light on that viv, it is likely gonna cook it.

Moss does the best when spread out in small pieces in moist areas that get good light. Temperature isn't super critical but cooler is better than warmer in my experience. I like to put little bits of moist sphagnum into background crevices and then place small pieces/chunks of live moss on the sphagnum. Usually within the month it roots and starts growing. I'll try to post a photo later from one of my vivs.


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## Triangle08 (Nov 1, 2012)

so i bought a new jungle dawn 13watt light based on what they recommended. I also increased how much i watered at a time and i saw a great increase but still not the kind of growth ive seen other experience. is it possible that the viv is drying out too much between watering? i only water once a day right now since i do it by hand. Here are some updated pics after a few months. added a few plants but just not sure what im missing in terms of plant growth. thanks!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I think the people who leaned towards not enough light for moss in lower parts of the tank were on the right track. Moss is considered a shade/low light plant but in actuality the "shade" outside is often quite a bit brighter then our vivariums. Our eyes just don't usually see it that way though because they are adjusted to the indoor lighting, and since the viv is also lit or is a room that isn't lit very well we perceive it to be brighter then it is. Basically in my experience people just underestimate how much light many mosses really need to thrive. 

Broms are great, but they tend to create shade for whatever is below them, especially since the way the leaves are arranged. They basically create an umbrella effect, where as something with more random/sparse leaf placement might let more light through, giving plants windows of opportunity, and in smaller tanks plants may not have enough of their mass in the higher light areas to spread into and support growth in lower light areas.

I've never really used the method much myself, but from what I've seen peat mashed into silicone isn't the greatest for mosses. Seems like people who do coco chunks and/or long fiber sphag and manage to get a thicker layer of substrate stuck to that base of foam and/or silicone have better luck with moss, and even other plants filling those areas in. The layer is maybe to thin in many cases to collect enough moisture I think, and support the mosses or other plants taking hold and expanding. Also being diligent about misting if you don't have an automated system becomes important. 

You could be misting enough 2/3 of the month, but that gap where you get lazy/forget and/or don't prune some things back (if you are like me) may be all that was needed to keep moss from doing well, especially if it is struggling with less then optimal light or other conditions. Moss is often trial and error, and just throwing as many types in there as you can or getting lucky and having some good stuff come in with a plant you buy. 

In the most recent pics the general plant growth doesn't look to bad IMO, maybe still a bit leggy. I think the problem is still light and the way you constructed the background just isn't ideal for moss. Antone's suggestion of adding long fiber sphagnum was good. Jam that stuff in anywhere you can. It is a good substrate for most mosses, and algae or biofilm, something will usually turn it greenish pretty fast so it doesn't stand out visually for to long even before mosses or other plants root into it well.

So I think for a "lush" look you are going to maybe wanna abandon the idea of moss in some areas in favor of small leaf vining plants that will grip onto the background/sides and cover it. Mini orchids that have shingling growth habit are another option if you're up for the attempt and expense 

If you have trouble keeping things alive on the floor, maybe opt for more hardscape accents like rocks and/or drift wood, and an area of leaf litter is beneficial and can be decorative in its own way. You can also try a rock or wood planter to raise the plants on the floor up out the super high humidity micro climate that might cause root rot in some, and also get them a bit closer to the light. Sometimes and inch makes all the difference.

Verts are bit of a challenge to do well, especially in smaller tanks that are high enough that the light intensity falls off very rapidly, and on top of that is usually blocked significantly by other plants. Larger areas tend to give you more optimal placement opportunities, and windows where other plants can sneak in and up there before shaded out by others. 

Oh also positioning the light more towards the front of the tank can make a difference. Get it where the plane  of light or whatever hits the top of the tank but the most intense area is focused more in the middle, or middle towards the front. I have 10 vert that is actually lit with at least 2 10+ watt CFL bulbs and because of the broms and the wood hardscape that sticks out from the background basically a leaf litter floor and/or very low light plants on the floor are all I can hope for. 

On the other hand I actually have Utricularia Graminifolia growing on background at the mid point, near the top and mosses,well actually more micro liverwort then moss growing up there. If you ever luck into that micro liverwort it's great stuff. Usually is more tolerant of lower light then moss, but rarely available as a specific offering. Usually it just shows up with some mosses or with other plants and is usually mistaken for moss.

Here are some micro liverwort examples... 









Pretty sure this is that stuff, I've grown so many mosses and this stuff in the same tanks it mixes together and is hard to tell, or I just forget what was what and when it was that... before it became something else









This tank started with T&C tropical moss which is one of the better mosses I've ever had, but mirco liverwort over took most of that and is what you see for the most part in the pic...









Get lots of mosses/liverworts from different sources: Like on orchids, or other mounted plants, buy multiple types from multiple vendors, try some of the aquatic ones.... throw it all in there and let it all fight it out and each find it's specific niche. Then keep up with your pruning if you want to keep your moss carpet in certain areas. I lost most of my awesome micro liverwort that outcompeted every moss I've had because I got lazy on pruning the tanks that had the best areas of it. It's coming back though, hopefully someday I'll have enough to offer it regularly


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## Triangle08 (Nov 1, 2012)

Really appreciate the response Dendro Dave! I actually have some liverwort in some places and always wondered what it was. I think you are right that my clunky background is taking up waaay to much space so i may revamp my tank. Being so small shouldn't be a big deal. and makes sense that adding more sphagnum will help since the few areas i have good moss growth either were by sphagnum or on coco bark. I may go back to the 2 CFL approach as well. Thanks everyone!


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