# WineBag's Project



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

I want to make a terrarium for D. azureus, and to get some life in my bedroom... which is kinda... well not nice enought to my taste.

So I started making some research about where and how live this beauty.

Here's little things I found and thinking about implementing usefull/useless/stupid --> advice needed. ^^

*Weather*

Found datas about the weather in the sipaliwini savana on TuTiempo.net
I made a small graph from this data, just translated it from french to english (sorry it's in Celsius degrees)








My room temperature range from 20 to 24...except in summer where it can climb up to 30°C. So LED ligthing, and a heating cable to get the few degrees I'll mis from time to time.

*Lighting*
Lighting will be done using LEDs, a bit expensive for sure (and painfull for my lil' brain) but it will avoid the terra from turning into an autoclave during summer. ^^

I've got some trouble about this : input from people that went in tropical jungle really needed (here's a start I keep editing  )

From different sources (lost my links ><) I read that tropical jungle during a sunny will receive 120 000 Lux. Under canopy received light drastically decreased to reach, at ground level 0.5-1% from the incoming sunlight, so around 600 Lux

Here comes th dumb thoughts (I hope i didn't make any mistakes above) :
I'll take (arbitrarily  ) 5% fromsunlight at 1 meter (3.3 feet) from the ground so 6000 Lux, that is 6000lumens/m²

In my terra I'll have to light up 1.20x05 = 0.6m² (plans in next post soon)
So if I'm not mistaken (with the 5%) 0.6x6000 = 3600
I'll need 3600 lumens to light up my terra.

I fear that will be really low, but I don't think I have made any mistakes in my reasoning. Help ?! :s

*Soil*
What I've found is that the soil in Sipaliwini is made from 'inceptisols' and 'oxisols' above sandstone (?) (grès in french) with some granitic outcrops.
I maybe utterly wrong...correct me if so.


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

reserved updating soon


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

reserved, will contain finshed project pictures.. I hope so ! ^^


----------



## hpglow (Jun 8, 2009)

You would be hard pressed to get anywhere near the intensity of the sun in your viv. I have one viv with very intense lighting it is a 2' cube (~60cm cube) the lumen output of the fixture when the T5 lamps are new is around 8000 with better lamps it can be as high as 10,000. That is total fixture output. I do have heat issues with this tank now and then and have to remove a lamp when it gets too warm and that brings the lumen total down to 6000, I have not seen any ill effects of removing a lamp. My Orchids still bloom and my plants all look great.

Now the rest of my vivs are lit with 28W PC lamps ( most are a standard 20H or 75 Liter.) A 28W PC puts out arount 1900 Lumens. Not intense at all, and by the time the light passes through the glass I am sure that it is far less.

Your goal of 3600 Lumens dosn't seem unrealistic or low to me, but I suppose it will depend on the size of vivarium you want to light.


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

Damn i can't edit the post... didn't know there was a 60min limit :s

here's the tank size : You should have been able to read in the second post :

LengthxDepthxHeight 120x50x80 (cm) roughtly 3.9"x1.6"x2.6"
0.6m² to light up.


Thanks for the input hpglow !

Thinking that i was nearly sent at the gallows for I wrote above in a french forum.. pff ><


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

I wanted to edit the few first posts to put everything in them to make it easily readble and avoiding a 10+ pages search for future readers.

Didn't get an answer yet about editing pas the 60' limit so here's what I wanted to put in post #2  :

---------

Now, the terrarium himself, I read you call that kind of terrarium 'european viv'.
LengthxDepthxHeight 120x50x80 (cm) roughtly 3.9'x1.6'x2.6'

Made some mistakes with the model (made on google sketchup) so it's not fully accurate.


























On the last pic tubing from left to right.
- Water exit misting system
- Water intake misting sytem
- Water output external filter (an old eheim I have)
- Water input external filter

I'll use expansive foam to make the background and a 'false bottom' (is that the rightwords ?) to avoid the soil from being too wet and get back the water to make a waterfall that will end in small pond.
I will make this fall as I enjoy running waters and I read azureus are allways found near creeks (Hoogmoed,1969).

I think I've put everything I've found out for now.... So what are your thoughts ? (aside from "your english sucks frogeater !" ^^)


----------



## Occidentalis (Jul 11, 2009)

I have a feeling that your lights will throw enough heat that you don't need to supplement. You may be finding that you're too warm. I'm not sure where the data was recorded, but shade and frog bearing niches don't necessarily concur with ambient temps. I believe most US tanks aren't allowed above 27.


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

I'll use a LED to light up the terra and avoid overheating it.









Here's an aquarium lighted up with LEDs (Aquaohm :: Galerie d'éclairage à LEDs)


----------



## Delgado (Oct 8, 2008)

Hi, looks like a nice project 

I'm using LED for my current setup at the moment, would be interested to compare notes on how much is needed for a given depth.


----------



## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

While I think it's commendable that you are trying to get as close to their natural environment as possible, trying to get the exact soils in your vivarium might be more of a pain in the neck than it's worth. The local soils are subject to a myriad of forces (rain water, flooding, drought, massive flora and fauna decay, depletion, biological and mechanical filtration, etc) that would be nigh impossible to recreate on such a small scale. There are several soil "recipes" that users have related that work great for drainage and sustainability in a vivarium. Personally I like the classic Atlanta Botanical Gardens mix but there are several if not hundreds out there. That being said it's your vivarium so if you want to try it then kudos.


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

Sorry for bad photos... I couldn't find answers to all my doubts so I just went on and started bulding it !


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)




----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

It keeps, goin'.. slowwwwwwwwwwlyyyyy. ^^


















I feel like I'm doing crap... am I really doing crap, or it is everyone's feeling when building first terra ?


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I definately don't think is looks like crap! 

Are you planning on using coco fibre on the background? It looks painted or is that the camera?

Is that spot on the left side going to remain open?

Some more foam around the pots would be nice.

Most vivs don't look great untill they're planted.


----------



## Herpboyben (Mar 18, 2007)

It looks great, keep up the good work.


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks guys.

It's tainted mix of sand /grout/ cement/ plaster (everything I could find to obtain a texture that suits my taste ^^) ; It almost look white when dry.

I'll paint and varnish, later. I need to add more grout (at least to hide more the pots)

Yes, the hole is there on purpose and will remain there ! If it's not ugly..^^


----------



## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Looks great man! Good job on the research, lots of people just look up what's required to keep the thing barely alive, then ask to be spoonfed answers when they get too lazy. Anyways, I'm impressed with the effort you're making, you'll do great things!

The false bottom is usually made of some kind of plastic screen, not the foam, I don't know if you know that, but it'd be pretty frustrating trying to make one out of polyeurothane foam. I think commonly it goes in first, then you build on top of it, but I'm sure cutting it around the landscaping you have in will work.

BTW, your English is fine, more comprehensible than some of our natives...


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

Thanks a lot man !


I'm gonna make a false bottom with a screen at around 9 cm (~3.5").
There will be around 7 cm (2.7 inch) of water under the whole terra ; I'll have a little pond for a few schrimp or really small fish. 
Few water available to swim, but enought total water to have 'stable' parameters. 

I started working on my LEDs lighting... I'm terrified by that thing, I hope it will function ! ^^


----------



## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Hey, just out of curiosity, we call you guys "frog eaters" what do you call us? Burger munchers? Last time I was in France (about 7 years ago) Americans didn't seem to be too popular, but Bob Marley sure was. Most French accepted me when I said I didn't approve of Bush either.

Cherry shrimp do well in small volumes of water, I had about 100 of them in 2 gallons, and population seems to level off when they reach a certain density without killing the whole mess of them.


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

SA_Ka_20 said:


> Thanks guys.Yes, the hole is there on purpose and will remain there ! If it's not ugly..^^


I think the hole is cool and original.


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

[politics]
Some people here, just don't like americans, because, they are americans, and we outsmart them because we got far more history, cultures,etc.. blabla (insert lol right here)... in fact most of don't even know why !

I really think there is lots of **** from each side of the ocean, maybe more here.. just look at our 'president', his ministers (anyway, we only have a bunch of retarded or greedy people to vote for !) and what they do.. it's just... (insert foul language, and we got damn lot here ! )

About Bush what really disappointed me the most was the "Patriot Act", which still operationnal, no ?
When I heard about that I remembered a quote of B. Franklin "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (and will loose both) and thought, were the hell are gone all those great guys that created USA ?

Well anyway, that is my own opinion, but, in europe, as well as North america I believe none, really deserve what our ancestors did for us ; and I really feel ashamed of this.

BTW, we don't really have a nickname for you, just " 'ricains " or "gros 'ricain "
'gros' means fat ; don't worry we'll deserve it as well soon enough, junk food as made it's place here too ! ^^
[/politics off]

I bought 4 Red Crystal, by february, got 6+ now, but 2 of the first 4 seem to be dead.
I may buy a few more, to get some 'fresh' blood ?

cheers !


----------



## weta (Mar 2, 2008)

^^^ Now that was random...
Very interesting project btw. I think it will look awesome when its finished.


----------



## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Lol, thanks. I'm sure we deserve the "gros" label as much or more than anybody else.
Good to know that we're not the only ones dissatisfied with our overlords. I didn't really like either of the choices I had to vote for either, and the only guy I did like didn't have a chance. Seems like you guys know a lot more about our politics than we do about yours.

I think the crystal reds are different than the Red Cherrys, more sensitive to their water parameters, and less prolific, hence costlier.


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

I strated colouring, I had an exact idea of what i wanted, but I... I just fail at it.
Result doesn't look like what I wanted, but it ain't so *bad*










I love how flash makes me realise how much spot I din't add enought paint ! :s
If all those acrylic paint box are making you think I'm doing, well you're right... I'm doing crap mixes of colours and test them everywhere (wall, ground, feet, hands, face (really dunno how..)). I love that, remember me of when I was child !


Bonus pic : my Bog under rain ! ^^


----------



## SA_Ka_20 (Apr 10, 2010)

Had a few personal problems (not really fixed yet >< ) so the terra took a bit of dust untill recently. So I got back on it but with my computer fried, all my notes lost somewhere, had to think back a lot of things... and didn't bother as much as did before.

Took me 2 weeks to fix a damn leak problem that was soaking the soil... in fact that leak didn't exist, was a capillarity problem :s

to do :
- get some more bromeliads
- build light hood
- buy front glasses
- fix misting system


I stacked in there some of the plants as I don't have anywhere else to store them. ^^










NB : well it doesnt look like what i wanted it to be... not at all.


----------

