# Strange experience with a potential froglet flipper



## ivas (Jan 24, 2009)

A little over a year ago, I advertised a fair number of frogs for sale on this message board. Someone contacted me telling me that he travels around to reptile shows, and would like to set something up with me. I gave him my information, and he never responded. Sometime around September of last year, quite some time after our initial exchange, he contacted me again, telling me he needed frogs shipped *that afternoon*, for a show in 2 days, and offered to buy all of the froglets I had on hand (quite a few, worth quite a bit of money), and offered me a very fair price. Well, this required me to take an unplanned half of the day off of work to invoice him, track down and buy a big styrofoam box to send this large order, catch a whole bunch of froglets out of their tanks and package them up, charge the phase panels, etc. etc. etc. Then I looked at the Paypal statement...still not paid. So I call, and no answer. So I email. Wait 15 minutes, call. Wait 5 more minutes, call. Wait until 30 minutes before the FedEx closed, finally an answer. He gives me some story about being away from the computer and unable to pay, and says I could ship them and he'd pay that night. I tell him "no money, no shipping." He says he'd be in touch. He hasn't contacted me since.

I don't know about you, but if I had that much money that I was willing to invest in such a large quantity of quality CB frogs for an apparently important show, and at such short notice, I would have made more of an effort as the buyer. I was extremely frustrated with the situation, and it was such a hassle on my end, for nothing. At the end of the day, all of the froglets were back in their tanks. I can't help but wonder what honestly happened on his end. I like to think the best of people, but the thought has crossed my mind that there are scammers out there in all walks of life. Hopefully it was some minor emergency.

By and large, my interactions with people on this board as a buyer, seller, and trader have been excellent, and I have not been burned. I try to protect myself in all instances and try to offer my customers some protection as well. I just want to remind everyone to to be cautious, be explicit, and remember that feedback is your friend when making purchases. This joker did not have a feedback thread and had only made the obligitory 30 posts, using short uninformative responses to other peoples' threads.

Anyone else with similar experiences? Please don't be naming names...I do not intend to start a witch hunt!


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Unfortunately, I don't think it is that uncommon. I have run into very similar circumstances in other hobbies. The person inquires about a rather large order, delays until the last minute, and then tries to get you to ship anyway because, "the payment is on its way."

The initial contact may have been a ruse to gain trust. Something like, "I'm not a scammer, look how long I've been around." It has never happened to me personally. However, I have known people who have sadly fallen for scams like that. 

I have never had anything interesting enough for big-time scammers to come after me. I have had some people try to pull off shipping before paying on a much smaller scale.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Why not start a feedback thread for this person? It would help other people not fall for this... And i'm sorry about how you had to waste half your day. that must suck


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## Lukeomelas (Mar 15, 2005)

Well I'm really glad to hear he didn't end up with your frogs. It is so important to have rules for yourself, even something as simple as no money, no shipping. That one paid off for you in a big way. I think most legit frog deals will never be rushed like that. Thanks for posting your experience, it is a good reminder to all of us! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, theres really only one person that fits that description. I wont name him because this is not the vendor feedback area. But we all likely know who he is. Yours is not the fisrt interaction with this individual I've heard. PM me if you want to confer. What kinda froglets did he want to buy?


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

pdfCrazy said:


> Well, theres really only one person that fits that description. I wont name him because this is not the vendor feedback area. But we all likely know who he is. Yours is not the fisrt interaction with this individual I've heard. PM me if you want to confer. What kinda froglets did he want to buy?


You'd be surprised at how many 'off the boards' people do fit that description.
Edit: 'He' does not travel to many reptile shows, as far as I know.

D


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

.... guess i'm not cool enough to be in on this. Can you please pm me? thanks


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## ivas (Jan 24, 2009)

pdfCrazy said:


> But we all likely know who he is.


As I said, the feedback forum is your friend. So is the search function. There are several of "them" that have been exposed on this and other forums. I learned all about several of "them" by doing just a tiny bit of digging after I got that fishy feeling.


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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I would also like to know who this is, please pm with info.


Thanks Scott


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## Ebiforest (Jan 25, 2013)

Sounds more like a scammer than a flipper to me.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

What state was he from?


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Ebiforest said:


> Sounds more like a scammer than a flipper to me.


Agreed bet there was no intention of paying for those frogs unless it is someone you see posting often with a higher profile which ='s too much to lose.


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## daryl34 (Feb 24, 2007)

That happened to me, said the check was in the mail for 2 weeks did not understand why I wouldn't ship.


Daryl

I keep all of his PMs for reference.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Unfortunately this situation is pretty common. I'm sure he was hoping that after packing the animals, you would just ship them anyway and hope for the payment. He may have even been planning on paying you, but he clearly didn't have the money in hand. I'm glad you stuck to your guns on payment before shipping. A lot of people get flustered by that situation and get scammed. 

It's funny, it's happened enough that anytime I have a sales interaction and the communication on the other end is poor I start seeing red flags.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

This is not necessarily a "scam" per se, but rather a recent trend in the way some people try to make fast cash online without any investment of their own.

What happens is Person A advertises something for sale AFTER they see Person B's advertisement, Person A then puts an ad out for the same item with a price markup, then Person C sees Person A's ad and wants to buy the item, so Person A tries to get the item from Person B as soon as possible, and doesn't necessarily have the funds from Person C so that they can pay Person A.

I know someone who was doing this on Amazon, when they caught him they froze his accounts and he is banned. It's become so pervasive that I even saw an infomercial advertising how to set up a business that way. 

Personally, I think it's asinine.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Sounds like the 'buyer' was planning to pay for the frogs after selling them at a higher price, but, didn't want to come right out with that info. We've seen that scenerio around here before. It doesn't end well.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

I guess his mother didnt teach him that it takes money to make money, or any values.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Designer Frogs y'all?

s


frogface said:


> Sounds like the 'buyer' was planning to pay for the frogs after selling them at a higher price, but, didn't want to come right out with that info. We've seen that scenerio around here before. It doesn't end well.


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

Gotta love a scam failing do to the scammer's lack of funds. I'm glad they didn't have the money, I don't know if i would want my babies sittin in a cup for thee days or more.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

brad0608 said:


> Gotta love a scam failing do to the scammer's lack of funds. I'm glad they didn't have the money, I don't know if i would want my babies sittin in a cup for thee days or more.


The scam wasn't buying the frogs at wholesale prices and selling them at retail prices. That is what normally happens. The scam was getting the frog without having to put up the money first.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ivas said:


> A little over a year ago, I advertised a fair number of frogs for sale on this message board. Someone contacted me telling me that he travels around to reptile shows, and would like to set something up with me. I gave him my information, and he never responded. Sometime around September of last year, quite some time after our initial exchange, he contacted me again, telling me he needed frogs shipped *that afternoon*, for a show in 2 days, and offered to buy all of the froglets I had on hand (quite a few, worth quite a bit of money), and offered me a very fair price. Well, this required me to take an unplanned half of the day off of work to invoice him, track down and buy a big styrofoam box to send this large order, catch a whole bunch of froglets out of their tanks and package them up, charge the phase panels, etc. etc. etc. Then I looked at the Paypal statement...still not paid. So I call, and no answer.


I would have never even considered going through such trouble without first getting funds via paypal.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

The scam was actually working the word y'all into this thread.....




collector broms..


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## rackodac (Apr 2, 2012)

Good call on not shipping. Its super lame that people try to pull stunts like that.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Scott said:


> Designer Frogs y'all?
> 
> s


I only know one person that phrase is associated with.... I know he's trying to make a come back... But why are we letting him...?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

We are not.

That phrase itself has not been used - a different phrase was.

We are mocking him.

s


SmackoftheGods said:


> I only know one person that phrase is associated with.... I know he's trying to make a come back... But why are we letting him...?


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## XxExoticPsychExX (Mar 12, 2012)

Can someone please pm me and explain what's going on? I'm always lost when it comes to threads like these. .

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

XxExoticPsychExX said:


> Can someone please pm me and explain what's going on? I'm always lost when it comes to threads like these. .
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


Do a search for "collector broms" and look at who had been posting several ads about them... If that name itself doesn't help you figure it out right there, dig deeper and do a search on that person. If you still don't get it, feel free to PM me


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

It probably wasn't very nice of me to make that reference. That is NOT the person we're talking about in this thread (in fact, I have NO IDEA who the person in this thread is ... ) - but the method is the same.

Sell ahead of time (without using stock on hand)
Acquire stock using BUYER's money
Send BUYER the product bought using their own money

And hope you can keep the "float" going long enough to not get caught (which the "Brom" flipper (Designer Broms y'all!) DID get caught (in a number of ways).

s


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

carola1155 said:


> Do a search for "collector broms" and look at who had been posting several ads about them... If that name itself doesn't help you figure it out right there, dig deeper and do a search on that person. If you still don't get it, feel free to PM me


Ok found the guy lol. Took a little bit of digging and searching, but i found him. no i'm in the loop. Woo! Lol


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Scott said:


> It probably wasn't very nice of me to make that reference. That is NOT the person we're talking about in this thread (in fact, I have NO IDEA who the person in this thread is ... ) - but the method is the same.
> 
> Sell ahead of time (without using stock on hand)
> Acquire stock using BUYER's money
> ...


Sounds like kiting in the stock market, I think it would be an appropriate term for this. I also agree with others your experience in whole is what feedback is based on. And should be reported on. 
But since the deal never completed we have no idea if the person was gong to pay eventually as in a kiting scheme or if they never planned to pay at all.


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Got a feeling I know who this person is. And def flipping frogs.


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## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

I ran a "looking to buy" ad for BB Toads a few years back when the exports quit coming in from Parguay on Kingsnake.com and was contacted by email by an individual that claimed to have some and would ship them the following week when they returned from South America collecting tarantulas, if I would wire the money today. Claimed they lived in Virginia, gave a woman's name and a cell number and when I called a guy answered and said he was the person I had contacted. I couldn't locate the person or address given by using Google. Turns out it was someone surfing the for sale and forum areas looking for victims. Turns out they wanted me to wire money to Nigeria to a friend and they owed money to and would ship next week. Another kind of Nigeria scam.


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