# How much is too dry for frogs?



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Maybe a stupid question, but how much is too dry for frogs? Now that it's summer (here is very hot), the fans are on and dry out the air lowering the humidity level. Humidity in the room is now at 54%, in tank is between 70-80%. If the humidity drops below 70%, should I be concerned? I have read (can not remember the thread) of someone who breeds frogs at 50% humidity, from what comes my question. Greetings


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## us13fox (Jan 12, 2013)

I know for me personally I keep mine at 70% and up. Normally when I get home it's sitting at 75-80. I have had the occasion where it dropped in to the 50's and never had any issues but, when I notice that I just give them a light mist until the mister turns on. I'm not an expert though but I hope that helps.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

My question is also because I do not trust hygrometers: I have three of this stuff (different brands, analog and digital) and neither is accurate.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

My rule for humidity is that if you can see condensation on the glass, or if you put your hand inside the viv and can feel the humidity, it's enough humidity for the frogs.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I've read that 50-60% plus is good. Not sure if I'll be able to hunt down the posts but it was stated by Ed, if I recall.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't remember who, but I've read this info on the forum long ago. Ed is an authority. I also rely with condensation on the glass and wet leaf litter, but I'd like to know the exact humidity level in my vivs. Thanks for the replies.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

rigel10 said:


> Maybe a stupid question, but how much is too dry for frogs? Now that it's summer (here is very hot), the fans are on and dry out the air lowering the humidity level. Humidity in the room is now at 54%, in tank is between 70-80%. If the humidity drops below 70%, should I be concerned? I have read (can not remember the thread) of someone who breeds frogs at 50% humidity, from what comes my question. Greetings


It sounds like you are fine....If it drops below 70 for short periods that is ok, but I wouldn't be super comfortable with that for days at a time. You can seal up some up the top more if need be to raise the humidity or mist more often (don't saturate the tank though, all you need to do is get the surfaces wet and a little extra to replenish soil moisture...after that much misting the rest mostly just goes into the substrate and if to much goes in you start flooding your tank). Basically once you know what you are doing you should be able to mist regularly and not have the water level in your false bottom or drainage layer move hardly at all. If over a period of days/weeks it starts rising significantly cut back on misting a bit....if it keeps falling even though you are misting regularly, mist more.

Do you have a sealed top? a partially ventilated top? or a screen top?

A pic of the setup would be helpful.

As long as you have moist substrate, dense planting, and a top that is no more then 50% screen ( 65%-90% sealed is better usually), and mist regularly you should be fine. 

I just wing it...I haven't used hydrometers in years but a good one is nice to have. Like others said if you can stick your hand in the tank just after opening the lid and very clearly feel the humidity that is probably good.

If you are getting condensation on the glass during some parts of the day even when you haven't misted then you can be pretty sure you are ok. If you can mist and the tank fogs up for couple hours then clears...then that is another sign you are probably ok. There are little signs to pick up on, and eventually you can just look at a viv and know it is fine.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

rigel10 said:


> I don't remember who, but I've read this info on the forum long ago. Ed is an authority. I also rely with condensation on the glass and wet leaf litter, but I'd like to know the exact humidity level in my vivs. Thanks for the replies.


Here is the thread ...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/90220-misting-beginners.html


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

rigel10 said:


> I do not trust hygrometers





rigel10 said:


> but I'd like to know the exact humidity level in my vivs.


But that is really the only way your going to be able to measure the EXACT humidity level.

Keeping a hygrometer in the vivarium is a good way to ruin one.
I use to do this, then I ruined my first one and did not want to ruin my second.
I just kept it out side the vivarium. When I wanted a measure the humidity,
I stuck the probe inside the vivarium waited a minute got my reading.
Then stored it outside the vivarium.

I figured if I leave it in the vivarium I will ruin it.
And I dont need it inside the vivarium when I am not there
Because I cannot look at the damn thing when I am not there to begin with.
So it does not do any good sitting inside of the tank measuring humidity
if no one is there to read it.

does a tree that falls in the woods make a sound, if no one can hear it?
does you hygrometer measure your humidity, If no one is there to read it?
It does not matter, does it...


But now I just look at the glass. much easier.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Here is the thread ...
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/90220-misting-beginners.html


Thanks! And here's Ed's post on that thread: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/796641-post21.html


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Here is the thread ...
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/90220-misting-beginners.html


Thats a good link looks informative thanks for the read tonight I am BORED!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks all. I have some Exo terra terrariums with glass top and two holes of 4 cm (ie 1-5/8 inchs more or less) on the front per vivs, so as to concentrate the moisture on the back, where are the plants. 
The hygrometer that I use is on the rack, outside the vivs: the humidity in the room is about 50-55%, in tanks is about 70-75% for sure (now that is summer, otherwise is about 90%).
The problem is the heat (here, where I live, temps outside are today about 95° F) and the fans on top of the vivs are always on, so it's hard to monitor the humidity level in tanks, especially at night. 
For the frogs, if it's okay the humidity drops to around 50-55% at night, I can sleep more peaceful. By day there are no problems, because I can intervene by increasing misting (automatic or manual) according to need.

P.S.: Sorry for my bad English.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

As long as the average humidity is high and there are niches with microclimates the frogs will be fine and choose the microenvironments they need. 

If your frogs are hiding all the time, the humidity may be too low.


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## PumilioTurkey (Feb 25, 2010)

in my experience some species like O.Pumilio can cope better with high and dry temperatures than others.

during the summers my Pumilio Cauchero tank was almost dry like a desert-style tank. But it didnt do any harm to the Caucheros since they had their bromeliads where they could retreat into.

that summer I had a lot of froglets and tadpoles from my 2.1 Caucheros.


but I do know from other people that frogs like Dendrobates will drop dead after a certain temperature is reached...


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

In fact. I don't worry about my pumilio, singing at full blast despite the heat, but the ranitomeya (banded and varadero that I have) and the epips may be susceptible because of the high temps and humidity level. The fans dry the tanks in a little while. At present all my frogs are happy on the glass (without condensation as opposed to the usual) and they are out and about. I hope.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

PumilioTurkey said:


> in my experience some species like O.Pumilio can cope better with high and dry temperatures than others.
> 
> during the summers my Pumilio Cauchero tank was almost dry like a desert-style tank. But it didnt do any harm to the Caucheros since they had their bromeliads where they could retreat into.
> 
> ...


I had a period a couple years ago where my temps spiked into the high 80's/low 90's...I think it was short enough period I didn't loose any frogs that time but I was amazed out how out and active they all were. I can only guess that the increased temps boosted ambient humidity from the moist soil and they liked that enough to come out.

Red galacts seem to do ok into the 80's I found last year I think when I had some ac trouble. My impression of them from that time and other times I had red glacts and temp issues over the years is they are slightly more heat tolerant then others... I did loose a blue azureus around that time though I think. 

I wouldn't say they are more vulnerable to heat then average though...I would probably mark them as the base line/average frog...But given their savanna/forest island habitat they may have to deal with drier periods more then some frogs...so perhaps they are slightly above average for high temp/low humidity tolerance.

Size of frogs can a make difference too, especially when being heated or cooled rapidly. Larger animals tend to have a more stable internal temp....Its harder to heat them up fast, or cool them down fast (which in a heat stressed animal, fast cooling can kill it, just like in a hypothermic animal fast heating may kill it/send it into shock.)

So Tanks with smaller thumbs may be the priority to keep stable/acceptable temps in. Of course some of this is species/morph specific...a Highland species regardless of size may be much less tolerant of heat then a lowland... so they may deserve priority when taking measures to warm or cool tanks. 

It does seem from my limited experience with them and what I read/hear that pumilio for their size do tend to tolerate heat pretty well...there may be some morphs from climates that make them exceptions, and are actually less tolerant then many frogs. I don't know...haven't kept many pumilio so I haven't delved into the various climates for different morphs/populations.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Regarding pumilio, I found this interesting link.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...umilio-research-finds-lots-pics-included.html


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

Don't forget there are always going to be some wet areas in your viv... Broms, under leaf litter, mossy spots, under dense plant growth. I wouldn't worry so much as long as you are misting enough to keep those areas damp.


Sean


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

heyduke said:


> Don't forget there are always going to be some wet areas in your viv... Broms, under leaf litter, mossy spots, under dense plant growth. I wouldn't worry so much as long as you are misting enough to keep those areas damp.
> 
> 
> Sean


Ya micro climates are important...there should be a layer of cool air just above the moist substrate, and around any really wet/humid areas, and plants... and the frogs being moist with any air movement will be cooled some by their own moisture and evaporative cooling.

But there are points at which none of that is enough to compensate, especially for a period of days/weeks...so don't rely on micro climates to save you if you are over 85F for very long.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

85 F is too high, I don't think to achieve this temp. I try to keep temps in vivs to 78 F with fans on. But humidity drops. Areas of more humid micro-climate under the leaves or in the backgrounds, away from air intakes, are important.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

rigel10 said:


> 85 F is too high, I don't think to achieve this temp. I try to keep temps in vivs to 78 F with fans on. But humidity drops. Areas of more humid micro-climate under the leaves or in the backgrounds, away from air intakes, are important.


Yes it is to high...To be more clear I was just saying if it isn't for very long your frogs should be ok, and around that point or above micro climates aren't going to be much help, so don't rely on them. Sorry if I wasn't clear...I had just woken up


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks, you are very clear. But I'm sorry because I don't write in English since college before I register at this forum (with great pleasure). 
Luckily I have mainly pumilio, which thrive in these temp (just a little while ago I saw my Cristobal trio laying eggs). Greetings


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