# Hybrid Dart Frogs.. DONT SHOOT!!



## buddha (Oct 17, 2006)

I will be working on a 110 Gallon Viv.. and want to populate it with some sexy ass frogs. But i DO NOT want them cross breeding. Which cross breed? I know all morphs of Tincs can breed and Azerus can interbreed. But what Cant? Thanks for the help and not shooting first. Haha. But a simple list would be appreciated.. As smart as i let everyone to believe.. haha. Thanks again,
-B


----------



## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Well depending on how experienced you are you can mix alot of different stuff together, for example you could mix tincs, leucs, or auratus with any phylobates sp. or you could mix thumbnails with dendrobates or phyllobates but don't mix oophaga with any other frogs they are very territorial.


----------



## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

It appears that your aware of the hobby's stance on this issue so I don't feel that there is a need to get into the old debate. Just in case though. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/10507-mixing-101-a.html

If my small amount of scientific knowledge serves me, frogs that are of different genus cannot breed together. Example: dendrobates x dendrobates will breed. dendrobates x phyllobates will not. I don't recommend doing it, but after all this is your decision and I probably couldn't change your mind if I wanted to. If your going to do it then mixing two species that won't interact much and are of different genus would be the way to do it the most responsibly. Ex: terribilis and imis or something of that nature.


----------



## buddha (Oct 17, 2006)

Haha Jub Jub.. I read that and the 10+ page Poll that i saw about the interbreeding. haha. And i would like to think i know what im doing. Getting back into the darts since seperating. just wondering which were safe and not.
-Buddha


----------



## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

buddha said:


> Haha Jub Jub.. I read that and the 10+ page Poll that i saw about the interbreeding. haha. And i would like to think i know what im doing. Getting back into the darts since seperating. just wondering which were safe and not.
> -Buddha


Yeah, I kinda figured that you had by the title of the post.


----------



## buddha (Oct 17, 2006)

And for the record.. I do not jump into anything blind.. i read and read and sleep and read about what im into. I take everyones opionions and views and then make my own. Im glad there is such pasion in this group. haha. and i will do wha i want anyways.. haha. thats why i asked. Mwahz! -Buddha


----------



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

A friend of mine is breaking down her 150, which has been up and running for 4 or 5 years, she is handing over frogs for me to send to a friend and reputable breeder. Amazingly all of her frogs bred within their own species and all of them are in terrific shape. She had in this 150 3 Azureus, 5 solid orange galacs, 3 green & bronze Auratus, a pair of Amazonicus a small group of Castaneoticus and a trio of Basti's, for what it is worth they all did great. I would not suggest mixing this many species but if someone asked me should I put 3 species in 3 individual 10 gallon tanks or mix all 3 species in a 100 gallon tank, I would say mix and give them more room. A lot would also depend of you were doing a breeding program or wanted just a nice display tank, which is the case here. 
I would say Tincs or Azureus and maybe some Bicolors or Aurotania and then some type of thumb like Imi's or Variablis.


----------



## buddha (Oct 17, 2006)

Wow.. pretty kick ass Mark. But which interbreed? Azerus and Tincs.. Auratus and Luecs? Right?


----------



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

In this lady's tank no similar species bred, I would pick one from each pair I mentioned...Azureus or Tincs but not both as they should and likely will interbreed and then Bicolor or Aurotania and then 1 of the thumbs. If you do that there should be no interbreeding at all.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I wouldn`t mix terribilis w/ any thumbs.



jubjub47 said:


> It appears that your aware of the hobby's stance on this issue so I don't feel that there is a need to get into the old debate. Just in case though.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/10507-mixing-101-a.html
> 
> If my small amount of scientific knowledge serves me, frogs that are of different genus cannot breed together. Example: dendrobates x dendrobates will breed. dendrobates x phyllobates will not. I don't recommend doing it, but after all this is your decision and I probably couldn't change your mind if I wanted to. If your going to do it then mixing two species that won't interact much and are of different genus would be the way to do it the most responsibly. Ex: terribilis and imis or something of that nature.


----------



## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

frogfarm said:


> I wouldn`t mix terribilis w/ any thumbs.


Either would I. I wouldn't mix any darts. I was just giving an example of two species that would not interbreed.


----------



## edward (Apr 20, 2008)

Azureus is a Tinc., so it's the same as saying tincs and tincs will breed. Also, I would not
recommend putting in any thumbs with bicolors, the bicolors could possibly eat them.


----------



## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

I’m going to agree with Tim. i think a good rule of thumb to have is don't mix genii. 
most of us haven’t kept mixed PDF tanks so their isn't a set list of everything that can hybridize. i know there’s tincXazures and tincXleuc, other than that i don't know. another thing to keep in mind is keeping similar habitat type species together for ex. auratus' and pumilio's ranges overlap so they might be a better candidate.
disclaimer: i am not advocating mix species tanks.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

jubjub47 said:


> Either would I. I wouldn't mix any darts. I was just giving an example of two species that would not interbreed.


Or one might eat the other.
I wouldn`t worry too much about bicolor eating another frog. Their juvis didn`t get eaten when tank raised. Terribilis, esp. mint, is another story.


----------



## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

Why not leave well enough alone and not even risk it to begin with?


----------



## buddha (Oct 17, 2006)

Because i wanted to know. and will do it. just like the experts to help a little. and thank you all for your input. Father do it right then have interbreeding and have it accidently get away from me into the hobbie. -Buddha


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I f you just keep larger frogs in there and never give the eggs a chance to mature should they show up then why worry about interbreeding. If you have no tadpole deposition sites like ponds in your viv then they will have nowhere to go. Do whatever you want. the frog police aern't going to come to your house, but if you are asking for advice with the purpose of not taking it, then why bother? There are many reasons for adult frog health not to mix species, not even considering interbreeding.
I guess if you are going to do it, I would do what some of the european guys do, and have leucs, tincs or auratus as a more terrestrial species, although they will and do climb, mixed with a thumbnail like imis as a more vertically oriented frog- even though these will and do come down to ground level. Try to provide many different micro niches- with a tank that big it shouldn't be hard. Make visual breaks so frogs can get out of the line of sight of the others. Give small vines or branches with lots of broms for the thumbnails to hide in but too small for the bigger frogs to use. Don't put terribilis in a mixed tank unless you like feeding them expensive dinners. be prepared to have springtails melanos and hydei all available as food sources so the different frogs can eat what they like best and not all are competing with each other for the same food source. Feed at several different sites in the viv at the same feeding so the frogs don't bully each other while waiting to be fed in an accustomed feeding location. They will get used to where you dump those flies in.


----------



## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

I beleive you said you already had experience with dart frogs, but if you are a beginner, it would be better to have a couple smaller setups with species specific frogs so you can learn and understand the different characteristics of each species.

It is more difficult to mix frogs but there are steps you can take to help be sucessful. Just have a backup plan incase you encounter aggression between certain animals. You will want to have a couple 10g tanks set up in case a frog needs to be removed. Start with young healthy frogs purchased from a reputable breeder. Try to purchase and introduce all the frogs as close to the same time as possible. Make sure you have enough established fruit fly cultures to over feed if necessary. Observe your frogs. Aggression can lead to stress and stress can lead to health issues. Remove any frog that may be trying to dominate the tank. This may not be apparent right away but more so as the frogs mature.

Aout how large is the footprint of the enclosure and how many frogs are you thinking of keeping?


----------



## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Jellyman said:


> I beleive you said you already had experience with dart frogs, but if you are a beginner, it would be better to have a couple smaller setups with species specific frogs so you can learn and understand the different characteristics of each species.
> 
> It is more difficult to mix frogs but there are steps you can take to help be sucessful. Just have a backup plan incase you encounter aggression between certain animals. You will want to have a couple 10g tanks set up in case a frog needs to be removed. Start with young healthy frogs purchased from a reputable breeder. Try to purchase and introduce all the frogs as close to the same time as possible. Make sure you have enough established fruit fly cultures to over feed if necessary. Observe your frogs. Aggression can lead to stress and stress can lead to health issues. Remove any frog that may be trying to dominate the tank. This may not be apparent right away but more so as the frogs mature.
> 
> Aout how large is the footprint of the enclosure and how many frogs are you thinking of keeping?


 Decent advice....

The interbreeding and re-introduction of potential hybrid animals into the hobby is NOT the primary concern.

Stress leading to health and disease issues from mixed species enclosures is the primary concern.

There is a much higher likelyhood of frogs in a mixed species tank, not thriving or perishing than producing offspring.


----------



## buddha (Oct 17, 2006)

And it would be something down the road i just have interest about. I had many a frogs which when me and my wife seperated i couldn't care for at the Time and gave away. And jumping back in head first. It will be my first time dealing with thumbs though. Again it will be down the line After i Built and Maintained my 110. Again thank you all for your help for which i asked. -Buddha


----------



## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

if your going to do it then you should try for 2 species that cant interbreed(like you said) and that wont really ever see eachother. something that stays on the ground, and something that prefers it up high.

maybe one of the bigger tincs and some kind of thumb?


----------

