# dwarf basti. VERY CUTE!!!



## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

Got 3 basti., was told 1 male and 2 females, about 1.5 yrs old. One of the females is small, about 1/2 inch, very cute!

left: the cute dwarf
right: the orange male









The other female is a little bigger. This one is really getting the male's attention, he calls all day and following her around. Sometimes when she can't see him, she calls and he comes back, then back to the chasing game. Aren't they just great!!!
left: the orange male
right: the red female









Hope they will breed for me soon !!!


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

shes like hey im over here come catch me, and hes like hell no its nice and dark in here


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

swarovski said:


> This one is really getting the male's attention, he calls all day and following her around. Sometimes when she can't see him, she calls and he comes back, then back to the chasing game.


Hmmm... may have found a problem here for you... female pumilio don't call. If you have a "female" that is calling and the male comes back, you actually have 2 males.


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## gotham229 (Dec 30, 2006)

Lol yeah I agree. You probably have an extra male.


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## HappyHippos1 (May 7, 2007)

LOL Yea I read that and thought, 'Oh god, how do I know my males are males and females,females!?' Big sigh here.

I thought for sure only males call.


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

gotham229 said:


> Lol yeah I agree. You probably have an extra male.


Oh.. really? But before that purchase, the vendor from whom I got the trio said...... "A lot of mating activity with calling male and following around to secluded areas with other 2, He bunks down with preferred female. No eggs that I have seen, but I don't watch to closely, usually just wait for froglet hoppin around."

I paid $400 for the trio, am I stupid or what?


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## Nebuli (Feb 2, 2007)

i will start off saying that im by no means an expert but the little "female" in the first picture doesnt look so much like a "dwarf" but rather that it has a deformity. looks as if the spine has a bad curvature, like scoliosis or what i would consider in reptiles as MBD. i dont know if frogs get this, i would only assume that they could with improper nutrients and thats why it would appear as a dwarf. more that its growth was stunted. even in the picture its left rear leg looks misshapen. like i said before i dont know and this is all speculation on my half. im not very experienced in amphibians, but i have been dealing with reptiles (specifically monitors and arboreal snakes/lizards) all my life and on a professional level for nearly 10 years, and to me something doesnt look right. and if he sold them to you as proven and you have multiple calling males i would be skeptical of them and at least contact him to voice your concern. maybe some of the other members could help out more with the looks of the little guy that have more experience. ask him. posting more pictures would help too...maybe some side shots. 

FWIW,

Tre'


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## gotham229 (Dec 30, 2006)

I think you got swindled dude. Sorry man.
-Jon


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

Nebuli said:


> i will start off saying that im by no means an expert but the little "female" in the first picture doesnt look so much like a "dwarf" but rather that it has a deformity. looks as if the spine has a bad curvature, like scoliosis or what i would consider in reptiles as MBD. i dont know if frogs get this, i would only assume that they could with improper nutrients and thats why it would appear as a dwarf. more that its growth was stunted. even in the picture its left rear leg looks misshapen. like i said before i dont know and this is all speculation on my half. im not very experienced in amphibians, but i have been dealing with reptiles (specifically monitors and arboreal snakes/lizards) all my life and on a professional level for nearly 10 years, and to me something doesnt look right. and if he sold them to you as proven and you have multiple calling males i would be skeptical of them and at least contact him to voice your concern. maybe some of the other members could help out more with the looks of the little guy that have more experience. ask him. posting more pictures would help too...maybe some side shots.
> 
> FWIW,
> 
> Tre'


Well, I felt the small one looked a little weird, but the vendor again and again claimed that this was a healthy 1:2 to his knowledge.

Let's focus on what probelms my frogs have......

Here are more pictures of the small one.


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## Jencylivez (May 31, 2007)

Theres definitely something wrong here, but as I'm no expert I'll let others chime in.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I don't know... the frog kinda looks funny but it may be nothing. IF it is smaller, I would think it would be either from the fact that the frog is stunted or is not fully grown yet. As far as the calling... if the vendor told you that the male would call and the female would call back, they flat out lied to you... female pums don't call. If they said that the male would call and the females would follow him around, that is correct but a calling female you won't find. If you have two frogs calling in there, you have two males.


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

sbreland said:


> I don't know... the frog kinda looks funny but it may be nothing. IF it is smaller, I would think it would be either from the fact that the frog is stunted or is not fully grown yet. As far as the calling... if the vendor told you that the male would call and the female would call back, they flat out lied to you... female pums don't call. If they said that the male would call and the females would follow him around, that is correct but a calling female you won't find. If you have two frogs calling in there, you have two males.


1.5 yr old and not fully grown yet...... maybe, but the vendor claimed that fine spot basti. are smaller anyway...... that's how the vendor explained about the small one. From the vendor I got a lot of information which I heard first time in my life about darts, that really make me wonder if I am just stupid and inexperienced or someone simply lied :!: 

The vendor didn't say the female would call back, but that's what I witness here. So I have 2 males :!:


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I may be wrong, but as far as I know fine spot bastis aren't any different size wise than other Bastis. If you have 2 frogs calling then you do have 2 males. I would contact the seller and ask them what is going on because it sounds like they told you whatever you needed to hear to get the sale.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Definately MBD or another stress or genetic or disease situation. Look at the swelling and flatness of the forearms". the knees are also somewhat rounded, not pointed like a "normal" pumilio. The back is also "bumpy" for lack of a better term. Are they cb or wc?
I wouldn`t say you got ripped off if the other 2 healthy ones are a pair, definately taken advantage of.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I previously sent this pm to Kevin after his initial posting,



> saw your post .....
> 
> The smaller basti may actually be runted, and you could make an argument against breeding such stock to avoid perpetuating weak gene pools.
> 
> ...


The new pics of the runted frog certainly do look like a metabolic bone disorder.

I had a similar experience years ago happen to me (which is why I pm'd Kevin), and after contacting the breeder (who I believe honestly didnt _see_ the problem initially), he replaced the afflicted animal. Ironically it was a red/orange basti. 

FYI

Shawn


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

sbreland said:


> ...... I would contact the seller and ask them what is going on because it sounds like they told you whatever you needed to hear to get the sale.


Yes, the vendor sold me what I was looking for. I was looking for 2 female basti, then he replied he had a 1:2 trio for $400. He also said there were a lot of breeding activities going on...... this and that...... you get the idea.



frogfarm said:


> ...... Are they cb or wc?
> I wouldn`t say you got ripped off if the other 2 healthy ones are a pair, definately taken advantage of.


Well, they are 1.5 yr old CB as I was told, but a female can actually be a calling male, CB could actually be WC, perheps?

Here comes another question: the "calling female" kind of gives me a feeling that looks alot like the small one, but I can't tell where the weird parts are. Maybe humpback, I don't know. Here are 2 pictures of the "calling female".

















How do you guys think about this one?

And you guys have been telling me to contact the vendor. I did. The result is not pretty...... let's not go there.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

There is definately something funky with the smaller animal's spine. And I'm also going to note that a basti is a basti... no matter the color or pattern. They have a ton of color and pattern variation as a population... but not size. At 1.5 years they are full grown.

My personal opinion... I will not pay for a "female" pumilio unless she has produced eggs under circumstances where that animal could be the only one that laid the eggs (for example... two animals in the tank, they've had good eggs, and the other animal calls LOL). There are too many cases of "females" that turn out to be non-dominant males (which often won't call). People have sat on a "pair" of pumilio just to move them to a new tank and have both of them call as the animals bicker over new territories... I even recently had this problem with my "pair" of anthonyi 8s... my "female" turned out to be a male after I witnessed a calling duel between the two animals... I'd never seen (or heard) the animal call before that... when I got them I'd have sworn that the one animal was a female but as they got older the males grew to the same size as the "female" and no eggs were produced... took me a year and a half just about to finally see the "female" call :?


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## Alex007 (Apr 15, 2007)

*I like it*

Hey I really like this frog rather it has a deformity or not. Hey if you are willing to sell it I will buy it from you. Alex


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Gimpy frogs need lovin' too... that's why I've got a couple of frogs that I will never breed but they still get a loving home


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

KeroKero said:


> Gimpy frogs need lovin' too... that's why I've got a couple of frogs that I will never breed but they still get a loving home


Me too, I just got a couple deformed bassleri, one without an eye, one with a bad leg. They are still great frogs though.

Nice bastis!


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## trunda (Oct 15, 2007)

I got 3 leuc froglets, after a month or two two of them grew like two times biigger, the third was somehow slower and smaller, i found out that the small one had problems catching ffs. Later i saw it has one eye grey rather than black, i think its blind on one i so it has no 3D view and could not coordinate its tongue shots very well, anyway its my favourite sofar, i give it special care finding it in viv every feeding and giving few extra ffs right infront of its nose. I hope it wont die, but its 2 times smaller now. Any suggestions or similar expirience?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Keep it seperate and use slower FFs like wingless types that have a harder time getting away, keep some fruit in the tank for them to congregate, and bowl feed other stuff like RFB larvae.

The "gimpies" often cannot compete with more normally developed frogs, and would die in the wild for this reason, or because they'd be picked off by predators. They almost always have to be kept by themselves (or a frog with similar issues but still better alone) which is one reason I've ended up with a few... I have the space and their breeder didn't.


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## marinfire1 (Dec 14, 2007)

those are amazing little guys


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

*Re: I like it*



Alex007 said:


> Hey I really like this frog rather it has a deformity or not. Hey if you are willing to sell it I will buy it from you. Alex


Sure Alex, I will give them to you for free.
Are you going to pay for shipping or you want to pick them up?
I paid $400 for the trio,
$100 for CITES permit,
$55 for the USFW inspection,
and $435.44 for freight.
You get the idea how much I spent for the trio,
and how angry and depressed I was when I found out it's a 1.1.1 trio. Even better, the 0.0.1 is a deformity.

FYI, the vendor who sold me the trio is in Seattle area.


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## Jencylivez (May 31, 2007)

Thats a lot a money that you spent. It's a shame. What did the vendor say about all this?


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

*Re: I like it*



swarovski said:


> You get the idea how much I spent for the trio,
> and how angry and depressed I was when I found out it's a 1.1.1 trio. Even better, the 0.0.1 is a deformity.


Sorry, it should be 2.0.1, not 1.1.1. There is no female in the group. Was supposed to be 2 females, 1 turned out to be a calling male and the other is a deformity.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Where do you live?


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## Dangerously (Dec 19, 2007)

Is it bad karma (or against the TOS here) to call out the vendor so we know who to avoid?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Against the rules, it can have bad legal ramifications


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

Dangerously said:


> Is it bad karma (or against the TOS here) to call out the vendor so we know who to avoid?


I can't make the vendor's information public -- against the rules HERE.



Alex007 said:


> Were you just kidding about giving your basti for free to me? I pay shipping for it if you still want to get rid of it. let me know so I can give you my info for shipping. Thanks Alex


No I am not kidding, I will give them to you for free. I'd had 4 males already, now the vendor just sold me 2 more. You can use the orange male, it's a healthy basti at okay size. The red male and the dwarf are both deformity, you can keep them as pets, not in breeding program.

Just send me $435.44 for freight if you decide the get them, the other fees (CITES, export inspection, and others) are on me.

If any of you think that $435.44 is way to expensive, imagine that I paid $435.44 freight + $100 CITES + $55 USFW inspection + $400 frogs. You call the purchase I made an accident or fraud? I call it a fraud.

You guys may wonder how the CITES gets involved. Well, I am not in the states but Taiwan. The vendor sent the frogs to my supplier who exported frogs to Taiwan for me.


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## Dangerously (Dec 19, 2007)

I understand the legal ramifications. 

So then we all know where the Board of Inquiry (as it relates to herps) resides?


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Personally I think the seller should be held responsible. I talked to swarovski about this and he has good reason to be pissed about it and the seller needs to be addressed, and yes, I know who it is. My suggestion was to let Kyle know who the seller is and what he said, but in the end though it's swarovski's decision if he wants to push this, so we might as well leave it at that.


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## Jencylivez (May 31, 2007)

So negative feedback is against site rules? Whats the point of the feedback system then?


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## HappyHippos1 (May 7, 2007)

Yea I agree too. We need feedback, just on principle assuming everything in the post is true, I would like to know just to not buy from this guy.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Yes if all of the facts are accurate, this guy paid a rediculous amount of money to get completely ripped off. Unfortunately right or wrong this site could be sued for allegations not proven.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Here is the old thread on the feedback, and I do not care to discuss it again:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31682

If you have a problem with a user or a deal please discuss it privately with that person or business.


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

Guys, let's not make it difficult for Kyle. It's nice enough for us coming together to enjoy the hobby. If we don't have a feedback system, fine, we can exchange information privately -- through DB's pm system, that's good enough, isn't it?

I told you guys my pains, and you learn one of the possible ways to get rid off something you don't want and still get good money. I am not saying it's okay to do so, but someone did and succeeded, right? At least you know it did happen, and I am 100% sure it will happen again.

I have more information to prove that this sales is an intentional fraud, because about one month before the purchase I made, the vendor had a wanted ad on DB, looking for a female basti. If he had a 1.2 for 1.5 yr, why did he need to look for a female? Does that make any sense to you guys?

I've met some nice people with nice frogs here, and I really appreciate what DB has provided for all of us. Yes, I was defrauded, but this won't change how I see you guys and the DB. The vendor selling me the trio is a repeated lair, I have information from the other member, so I decided to make this unfortunate thing public, so that we all can make purchase with a caution.


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## zaroba (Apr 8, 2006)

although feedback isn't allowed here, i don't think that means you can't put a link to a forum where it is allowed and where you do have feedback on the vendor.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Links like this will only be permitted if approved my myself.


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## swarovski (Oct 19, 2006)

To be fair to the vendor, he sent $300 eCheck via PayPal to me on Jan. 11 (though the fund is not clear yet.)

The vendor stated that he takes full responsibility for the deal that went terribly wrong.

I appreciate everyone who has helped in this case.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Good to hear he stepped up and took responsibility. 

Maybe he read this thread. :shock: 8)


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