# Usps safe to ship frogs?



## Matecho (Dec 16, 2013)

I might be shipping two frogs out soon and i was going to use shipyourreptiles but usps was $30 cheaper. Are they safe to ship? I already lost a frog this year due to stress so i am a little worried on shipping. Thanks 

Nick


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## Halter (Jul 28, 2012)

Nick,

You get what you pay for. I would not trust USPS with any thing live or sensitive. SYR offers a time guarantee and shows you how to properly package your frogs as well.

If you want, use the code GENX40 at checkout to get 40% off your SYR order: )


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## Bighurt (Jun 18, 2011)

With the services provided by SYR, I wouldn't think of using someone else.

As said you get what you paid for, SYR paid off for me first shipment I scheduled. Fedex didn't delivery by noon, full refund. You can't beat SYR even if you set up your own certification and account.

I'd like to see USPS accept a DOA claim.


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## DaisyMaisy (May 6, 2015)

I hardly trust USPS with mail, let alone live animals! Maybe if you had tracking and all that it would be better....but it seems like a big risk. $30 savings isn't worth it, just my opinion. Good luck whatever you decide!


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## Itsalltender (Sep 6, 2014)

If you are are not shipping that far then usps is fine. I shipted a frog to the next state from me through USPS and it arrived the next day at 10:42 a.m.. But I would definitely recommend shipnex. I have found them to be even cheaper then USPS and it's through fedex you just purchase the shipping label through them. Hope that helped!


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## gope (Jun 26, 2014)

USPS couldn't get plants from Cal. to Wa. in two days priority recently. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I wouldn't gamble with live animals or fish.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Itsalltender said:


> If you are are not shipping that far then usps is fine. I shipted a frog to the next state from me through USPS and it arrived the next day at 10:42 a.m.. But I would definitely recommend shipnex. I have found them to be even cheaper then USPS and it's through fedex you just purchase the shipping label through them. Hope that helped!


Shipnex is not an approved shipper of live animals.

Furthermore, they're expressly prohibited in their terms.



> 2. Unacceptable Shipments
> 
> Shipper agrees that its Shipment is acceptable for transportation and is deemed *unacceptable *if:
> 
> ...


You're taking a risk shipping live animals with them. Worth the risk to save a few $$$$?

Not to me.

As to the OPs question, while there are many good postal employees, the bad seem to outweigh the good. I wouldn't trust a shipment with them of live animals.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

We ship both plants and animals almost solely USPS. Fedex has just gotten way to expensive over the years. You get what you pay for? I dont agree. The only problems I've ever had shipping live animals have been with Fedex. Taking precautions with your packaging and your temperature control on your end is by far and away the most important aspect.


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

I do it all the time. Have done it dozens and dozens of times for more than a decade.

NEVER had a problem that was their fault.

I will actually ship frogs via 2 day shipping under select conditions too, and also have never had a problem with that. But again you have to be quite selective with temps etc.


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## Igot99problems (Jun 20, 2014)

Never shipped frogs, but I know usps is the standard on any arachnid forum for shipping. I've purchased dozens of tarantulas shipped to me that way and have shipped some out too. I have not had one problem (yet). I personally would spend the extra to use SYR with any amphibian though.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I'd say don't take risk and just go with Fedex.


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## Tincman (Jan 18, 2013)

I ship many boxes of frogs per week these days, anyone that answers this question with a simple yes or know is not giving you enough information. *How you package the frogs, the weather where you are shipping from, shipping to & potential in between layovers will play more of a role then "what Carrier" will*. If its too warm dont ship, if its too cold dont ship. Ive had 2 delays that made frogs essentially freeze in TN coming from NY in the winter even though temps were favorable in NY & where the final destination was I did not anticiapte a damn 2 day Fedex screwup and delay in freezing weather....even with UNiheat & phases in double insulated boxed I had some sylvatica fatalities. Does this mean fedex is not to be trusted... No, it means for my area in NY not to ship using fedex when there are potential temp issues inbeetween locations or storms as they experience bad delays...& also use insurance on expensive shipments (*SYR insurance only covers when there is a DOA & a delay & also they consider the high shipping charge refund part of the initial coverage!.) * I have shipped easily 30 times with USPS this past year & never had an issue, however, conversely, this doesnt mean theyre the best option either... look up the times they guarantee to the zip youre shipping as some areas have quicker processing & overnight is guaranteed by noon, others they wont even give you one day which is unacceptable for any live shipment. If they wont make that noon guarantee I would not use the post office except maybe with a hold. That being said I find myself not using USPS at all lately, the best of both worlds is UPS shipnex that guarantees by 1030 to most of the country at a rate similar to USPS. I use Shipnex in most shipments under 500$ & I use SYR now only for less then ideal weather shipping with expensive frogs to take advantage of a delay that will negate my exceptional packaging in some cases... there is no right and wrong answer thats yes or no with shipping. You have to do what makes sense for you & your customer & your frogs subjective to that transaction... Know the carriers pluses & minuses and weigh out the options each time. If the weather is even a bit questionable, hold off on shipping if a couple days means better weather, also a hold at the closest hub to your customer will do wonders in most cases at reducing the risk the frogs are exposed to extreme temps if theyre justa few hours late & on the truck towards the middle of a summer day ect... its really more of a knowledge thing then a carrier thing.. each has killed many frogs & each will have delays that are out of your control once in a while... Reducing risk is the name of the game... doing all of the little things.. Cold packs with solid phases in warm weather... large double insulated boxes in cold weather with heat ect... Shipping at the beginning of the week so that god forbid a delay will be less likely to be on a weekend ect, things like this make you a good shipper.. Good luck, its not so hard.....Idris Tincman Herps-


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I have use USPS for short distance. Never had a problem. Arrives at the time they say. Fedx is expensive. Do I use fedx yes. I leave it up to the buyer.


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## dablock (Aug 7, 2007)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Shipnex is not an approved shipper of live animals.
> 
> Furthermore, they're expressly prohibited in their terms.
> 
> ...


NEX shipping a.k.a. shipnex is now a reseller for UPS. I have been using them for a while now and I've never encountered a problem. I've shipped a number of packages from Georgia to California without incident. Shipping with NEX will save you about 60% off standard UPS rates. 

Neither FedEx nor UPS will guarantee the live arrival of your frogs. What they do guarantee is time of arrival. The ladies at my local UPS hub where I drop off my frogs even hold my frogs inside until it's time for the truck to leave. This way the box is not exposed to temperature extremes for longer periods of time than necessary. Although the women decided to provide this service on their own, it wouldn't hurt to ask the attendant at your UPS hub to do the same. 

In almost 10 years of shipping frogs, UPS has never once questioned my shipping live animals. They may have certain legal language in their Terms of Service, but that saves them the hassle of having to pay for critters that die in transport due to poor packing. I mark my shipping boxes on all sides with "LIVE ANIMALS." You can also put the specifics of what's inside the box if you want to be sure to meet the letter of the law.

Instead of listening to people who've never used a service tell you their perceived negative about that service, you might want to consult the people who've actually used the service to gauge the efficacy of that service. (Sorry, Doug, but unless you've used the NEX and experienced problems, then your opinion of their service is of limited value.)


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## Itsalltender (Sep 6, 2014)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Shipnex is not an approved shipper of live animals.
> 
> Furthermore, they're expressly prohibited in their terms.
> 
> ...


I use them with no problem so........


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## patrickpfb (May 23, 2012)

The only experience I've had with USPS was receiving frogs from Texas to Virginia and they mysteriously lost the package for a day and it arrived a day late at the wrong post office that I was luckily able to track down in time. The frogs did make it though but it was a stressful day waiting. I wouldn't expect the same results if the weather wasn't perfect that week. I've never had any trouble with SYR. Always been on time in good shape.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

dablock said:


> NEX shipping a.k.a. shipnex is now a reseller for UPS. I have been using them for a while now and I've never encountered a problem. I've shipped a number of packages from Georgia to California without incident. Shipping with NEX will save you about 60% off standard UPS rates.


You're still in violation of Shipnex's own terms, which is what I was pointing out. Ship with them or not, I really don't care. People should be aware of this information though. 



> Neither FedEx nor UPS will guarantee the live arrival of your frogs. What they do guarantee is time of arrival. The ladies at my local UPS hub where I drop off my frogs even hold my frogs inside until it's time for the truck to leave. This way the box is not exposed to temperature extremes for longer periods of time than necessary. Although the women decided to provide this service on their own, it wouldn't hurt to ask the attendant at your UPS hub to do the same.


This is not new information. No shipper insures live animals, only SYR offers insurance, that you have to pay for. I've found that service to be of value. I'd say I'm ahead, given the number of minor 2-3 hr delays I've had recently, which qualified to get my shipping costs back, which, my customers were happy to enjoy that full refund.



> In almost 10 years of shipping frogs, UPS has never once questioned my shipping live animals. They may have certain legal language in their Terms of Service, but that saves them the hassle of having to pay for critters that die in transport due to poor packing. I mark my shipping boxes on all sides with "LIVE ANIMALS." You can also put the specifics of what's inside the box if you want to be sure to meet the letter of the law.


I've never had any shipper ever question any frogs I've sent, but that beside the fact, it's just an anecdote. 

I have had a 100% failure rate via USPS when items were shipped to me, I never ship with them. Fortunately, the sellers who insisted on using USPS, shipped well and the animals survived despite USPS failures.

Furthermore, I suspect there is more to Shipnex's legal terms than you think. It makes you responsible if there is a problem. You broke the terms you agreed to. Will anything come of that, probably not. It's your choice to take that risk. Keep in mind whe. You violate a companies specific terms, you paint the entire hobby in a bad light. Shipnex forbids you from shipping live animals with them, you have responsility to respect that.



> Instead of listening to people who've never used a service tell you their perceived negative about that service, you might want to consult the people who've actually used the service to gauge the efficacy of that service. (Sorry, Doug, but unless you've used the NEX and experienced problems, then your opinion of their service is of limited value.)


You assume too much. Ive used shipnex. I won't anymore after a fellow hobbyist made me aware of their terms. I've never had any problems with them, but it doesn't mean I'd recommend them as a third party shipping solution. There are BETTER options. Pretty much squashes the rest of your argument here, although, I'd like to point out this is a silly fallacious argument anyway. One doesn't have to have used any service to be able to make an informed decision about the use of that service. I've never used crack cocaine, but my opinion about the use of that drug is still informed and of value.

I've used every shipper and my personal recommendation based on all shippers I've used, which is just about everybody save reptiles express is to use fedex via SYR. SYR happens to also be a company that strongly supports our hobby, they're a first class organization with the best interests of the hobby and animals in mind. They've earned my trust and business unless buyers sternly object to using them and most of the time, if someone balks and the price difference, I either reject the sale or pay the difference to use the superior service I know I can trust.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Itsalltender said:


> I use them with no problem so........


Who is them?

USPS or NEX?

By all means though, if someone else as never had any problem with something, it must be good.

bottom line here, I think any shipper, so long as you listen to Tincmans advice above is probably fine. The vast majority of the time, with any shipper, you're unlikely to have issues.

For me though, with USPS, there have been too many stories and my own personal experiences, to suggest they're not worth the risk vs reward.

Shipnex, call it an ethics issue for me. Their terms say they won't ship live animals, I have to accept that and not break the terms of my contract with them.

Big Brown is probably fine too. understory uses them, but Browns prices suck.


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## Itsalltender (Sep 6, 2014)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Who is them?
> 
> USPS or NEX?
> 
> ...



Shipnex.....


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Itsalltender said:


> Shipnex.....


In that case see above.

Their terms prohibit you from shipping live animals, perhaps you were unaware, what you do from here is obviously up to you.

I personally don't feel it is responsible to recommend a shipping service, that prohibits the shipping of live animals, but that's just me.


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

You could use USPS, but I personally use ShipYourReptiles via FedEx and pack my shipping box according to The Lacy Act. With all SYR's benefits, insurance, and the sort, no brainer to me...


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I called shipnex and spoke to sales person a while back. He said they do not recommend shipping animals but did not say I could not ship them. I have not had a problem with SYR, shipnex or USPS. I am sure a package can 
get lost with any of them when dealing with that volume. SYR just cost to much sometimes.


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## dablock (Aug 7, 2007)

Doug, I don't know if you're a paid spokesperson for SYR, but I've used them and they're not all they're cracked up to be. They've made errors in pricing and promised to refund the overpayment. Unfortunately, SYR didn't follow through on the refund even though I spoke with one of the owners. So I can't really see paying more with SYR for poor service.

Your inane argument against NEX is again without value. You compare your opinion on NEX, an opinion which you have based on no evidence or personal experience, with the use of crack. Asinine! There's empirical evidence to support an argument against cocaine use. The same can't be said for NEX. I think you could use a course in logic, because you don't seem to be able to make a proper logical argument. I'll guess you weren't on the school debate team.

You also seem to think that NEX actually ships the frogs. UPS ships the frogs. UPS doesn't have a policy against shipping frogs. NEX isn't actually involved in the shipping process outside of reselling UPS services at a discount. I've spoken with a number of people at NEX and discussed their no animals policy with them. They responded that they know that people ship animals using their service and that they don't have a problem with it. As I mentioned earlier, they are just protecting themselves from loses by those who improperly pack their animals. There's no possible way that a shipment, good or bad, with NEX can come back to hurt the dart frog hobby. Can you say hyperbole?

Unfortunately, you're another one of those completely negative individuals that haunt this website. If you want to know who those people are just go to the Dartfrog Warehouse thread. Doug, I believe you're a regular contributor to this thread. I don't do any business with them nor do I condone their practices. Still, I can't see the purpose to a 48 page thread that exists just to let the "dendro Nazis" spew their hatred. You don't agree with Rick and that's fine to say so and explain the reasons for you beliefs. Do you really need to endlessly bash and hurl insults at the man? It's very childish and the moderators should have put a stop to it long ago.

I rarely post here, because of people like you. Anytime someone posts something you don't agree with, you have to jump in and put their ideas down. If you had just posted an answer to the question that the OP asked that would have been great. Say you love SYR and you think that it's the best service on the planet. Great! Why do you have to come back and post negative things about the services that others have recommended? You're the archetype "dendro Nazi" that makes this board less enjoyable and less effective. This should be a place of many opinions and ideas rather than a sounding board for the highly opinionated.

I don't plan on having a flame war with you, but I also don't wish to be bullied by you either. I'm allowed to make my thoughts known without having to see them pointlessly attack by you or any other bully that hangs out here. Let the person who starts the thread decide what advice they want to take. There's no need for you to force them to your side. It's not a contest. 

OK, I'll go back into the woodwork now. Hopefully, I remember how much I despise the way the moderators let the few sway the opinion of the many and I'll stop offering advice meant to help my fellow froggers.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

U mad bro?



dablock said:


> Doug, I don't know if you're a paid spokesperson for SYR, but I've used them and they're not all they're cracked up to be. They've made errors in pricing and promised to refund the overpayment. Unfortunately, SYR didn't follow through on the refund even though I spoke with one of the owners. So I can't really see paying more with SYR for poor service.


More fallacious arguments. The shill gambit? Really? Anytime someone has something positive to say about a company they must be a paid spokesperson? By your logic, you must be paid by Shipnex then? :roll eyes:

You know who you sound just like though? 

The rest of your statement however, reveals your bias. Axe to grind much.



> Your inane argument against NEX is again without value. You compare your opinion on NEX, an opinion which you have based on no evidence or personal experience, with the use of crack. Asinine! There's empirical evidence to support an argument against cocaine use. The same can't be said for NEX. I think you could use a course in logic, because you don't seem to be able to make a proper logical argument. I'll guess you weren't on the school debate team.


Quote the contrary, you just have a difference of opinion. You seem to either have an issue with reading comprehension, or just want to ignore the fact that I very clearly stated I did have experience with ship NEX, not that it matters.

The empirical evidence you say does t exist as far as using Shipnex, was posted by me earlier. It's clearly stated on their own website. Unfortunately I can't write it here in crayon for you.




> You also seem to think that NEX actually ships the frogs. UPS ships the frogs. UPS doesn't have a policy against shipping frogs. NEX isn't actually involved in the shipping process outside of reselling UPS services at a discount. I've spoken with a number of people at NEX and discussed their no animals policy with them. They responded that they know that people ship animals using their service and that they don't have a problem with it. As I mentioned earlier, they are just protecting themselves from loses by those who improperly pack their animals. There's no possible way that a shipment, good or bad, with NEX can come back to hurt the dart frog hobby. Can you say hyperbole?


I'm fully aware who Shipnex uses as the shipper, no confusion at all, other than from you, again, making assumptions. I'd suggest that you have some obvious personal beef with me, which is clouding your judgement.



> Unfortunately, you're another one of those completely negative individuals that haunt this website. If you want to know who those people are just go to the Dartfrog Warehouse thread. Doug, I believe you're a regular contributor to this thread. I don't do any business with them nor do I condone their practices. Still, I can't see the purpose to a 48 page thread that exists just to let the "dendro Nazis" spew their hatred. You don't agree with Rick and that's fine to say so and explain the reasons for you beliefs. Do you really need to endlessly bash and hurl insults at the man? It's very childish and the moderators should have put a stop to it long ago.


Oh boo boo, now we're really getting down to the brass tax of why you're takin this so personally. 


It's off topic hear, got Ann issue about that, take it to that thread and I'll address it there.



> I rarely post here, because of people like you. Anytime someone posts something you don't agree with, you have to jump in and put their ideas down. If you had just posted an answer to the question that the OP asked that would have been great. Say you love SYR and you think that it's the best service on the planet. Great! Why do you have to come back and post negative things about the services that others have recommended? You're the archetype "dendro Nazi" that makes this board less enjoyable and less effective. This should be a place of many opinions and ideas rather than a sounding board for the highly opinionated.


Take your ball and go home then.... 



> I don't plan on having a flame war with you, but I also don't wish to be bullied by you either. I'm allowed to make my thoughts known without having to see them pointlessly attack by you or any other bully that hangs out here. Let the person who starts the thread decide what advice they want to take. There's no need for you to force them to your side. It's not a contest.


Hahahaha! The bully card? Really? Too soon bro. Anytime someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean you get to play the bully card. Play for sympathy much?



> OK, I'll go back into the woodwork now. Hopefully, I remember how much I despise the way the moderators let the few sway the opinion of the many and I'll stop offering advice meant to help my fellow froggers.


Probably for the best if you take every disagreement of opinion or agreement this seriously and handle it this poorly, I'd hate to see how you react or behave when faced with a more serious discussion....

Seriously bro. Just get over it. You need to resort to personal attacks and insults is disappointing. There is no flame war or need for there to be until you turned it into one.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Tricolor said:


> I called shipnex and spoke to sales person a while back. He said they do not recommend shipping animals but did not say I could not ship them. I have not had a problem with SYR, shipnex or USPS. I am sure a package can
> get lost with any of them when dealing with that volume. SYR just cost to much sometimes.


Interesting. You're the second person saying that. I'm inclined to believe it, but I'd want it in writing, since that statement conflicts with their stated policy.

The cost component is a Fed Ex deal, SYR is usually a savings over direct purchase from FedEx unless you a certain kind of account.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

IF you have something to say to the Moderators - use the report button. The little red triangle with an exclamation point if you're unsure what it is.

Calling out Moderators the way you have is more likely to cause *you* issues than anyone you are talking about.

And no, I haven't read the rest of this. Long day and I'd just as soon not get involved in the drama.

s



dablock said:


> ... Do you really need to endlessly bash and hurl insults at the man? It's very childish and the moderators should have put a stop to it long ago.
> 
> ...
> 
> OK, I'll go back into the woodwork now. Hopefully, I remember how much I despise the way the moderators let the few sway the opinion of the many and I'll stop offering advice meant to help my fellow froggers.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Just my anecdotes but I extensively use all 3 major shippers. I do not use them all for live animals. But what does it matter? Once your package leaves the facility all shippers treat your package equally from everything I have seen, it is handled heavily by machine that don't care whats in it and runs through a massive supply chain. There is no special consideration once your package is out of your view because it has live animals over any other package that simply says fragile or upright. And even then you still might not get any special consideration over an unmarked brown box. If you doubt me put a glass of water in your package send it out and see if the receiver finds the glass still full of water....

All these shippers screw up, that said USPS screws up the most in my experience. 

So there are 2 primary concerns one should consider. First is the well being of the frogs. If you care a lot about the frogs life then you should not use USPS IMO. But that is just my opinion. Other people may have different experiences and maybe this is in part based on location. Maybe fedex just sucks in your area... The second one is costs, under costs comes insurance so you might think SYR is a better deal because if they do ship late they will refund you. But ultimately are you saving money? No your not because you paid for that insurance and if you average it out and simply skipped the insurance and went with a cheaper alternative you would have saved enough money to cover the few times you take a loss. IME I can get better deals directly through fedex than SYR can offer me so they are more expensive, the only time SYR wins is the first time when you can use the 40% off coupon. After that you are paying a premium for the insurance and specialization. But really lol they don't do anything than act a billing middleman. I have to drop the package off at fedex, I have to package it and find the materials or pay SYR for those materials. I do everything, and SYR will only cover your frogs if the package is late if the package isn't late they don't care. If I was shipping expensive frogs I would probably go through SYR but cheap frogs I would insure myself and take it to FedEx or UPS directly.


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## slimninj4 (Dec 31, 2013)

FedEx seems to work the best for me. I never send, only receive. Never had a frog die in transit from FedeX. 80% fail rate for USPS. Of course it also depends on how it was packed. 

It sucks getting 5 frogs and only 1 surviving when you open that package up. Even with a refund it still hurts. I try to only get local or within driving distance as I am weary of shipping.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Unless your package was delayed beyond 2 days - this is a packing failure - and it would have occurred with ANY carrier.

s


slimninj4 said:


> FedEx seems to work the best for me. I never send, only receive. Never had a frog die in transit from FedeX. 80% fail rate for USPS. Of course it also depends on how it was packed.
> 
> It sucks getting 5 frogs and only 1 surviving when you open that package up. Even with a refund it still hurts. I try to only get local or within driving distance as I am weary of shipping.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Scott said:


> Unless your package was delayed beyond 2 days - this is a packing failure - and it would have occurred with ANY carrier.
> 
> s


I agree. Assuming you ship overnight, as you should, if the frogs perish within that short timeframe, the death is the fault of the person who shipped.


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## slimninj4 (Dec 31, 2013)

I totally agree with you but still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 



Scott said:


> Unless your package was delayed beyond 2 days - this is a packing failure - and it would have occurred with ANY carrier.
> 
> s


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

All of the carriers have issues from time to time. In more than 20 years, I've had all three lose animal packages for days on some occasions. I had USPS have a package containing Atelopus for me sit in their office for more than a week without notifying me. I only found out because our carrier told me about it. I've had USPS lost several boxes of crickets in their office after they notified me that they had it in the office. It took them hours to find it. 

I had Fed-Ex lose a shipment for a week and multiple times had a shipment delayed for 24 hours. I've had the same thing happen with UPS. 

I tend to use SYR preferentially and prefer to purchase from those who also use it as they have packing standards. Too often I've purchased from others who short cut the shipping practices. As an example, I recently purchased a couple of turtles and they were shipped UPS in a flat rate box marked live, no styrofoam insulation, no invoice or receipt, in a tupperware container with some holes punched in the sides. Needless to say I was less than thrilled and was less than happy about the animals when they arrived. 

The minimal shipping standards put forth and enforced by SYR is a decent safety net that is lacking with some of the other shippers. 

Some comments 

Ed


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