# excelsior and mold



## Michelle (Sep 13, 2004)

OK I have just started to try some commercial media and also got some excelsior, now my thing is I’m only about 2 weeks into giving it a try and I’m seeing mold on the Excelsior (not on the media though)..... Is this a bad thing? Am I maybe using it wrong? I mix the media and stick some of this on top and kinda push a little of it into the media to anchor it. And I was at the store today and saw some of that plastic easter grass stuff that people put in easter baskets, its CHEAP and I would think wouldn’t mold up like the excelsior, do you think this would be ok to us?
Thanks for the help
Michelle


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm sure it would be ok to use, but it may be just as messy as excelsior, and with excelsior, if it ends up in you're tank, it doesn't matter much, and after a week or two you probably wouldn't even notice it anymore.
Easter grass, on the other hand, would take forever to break down, and would stand out like a sore thumb in a viv, so as part of you're feeding regimen you might have to pick the easter grass out of you're supplement cup


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## Michelle (Sep 13, 2004)

OK thought I would post a picture of the stuff I’m thinking of, I think there are a few things out there that could be thought of as easter grass :wink: 








or if that doesn’t work try this link (you might have to copy and paste this link but it does work) http://www.freewebs.com/our_fish/grass.jpg

I don’t think it would get into the viv its in pretty long pieces and doesn’t break up… and also I put the flies into a bag and dust before I feed the frogs so if I do get some in the bag it shouldn’t be to hard to take out.
thanks for your input,
Michelle


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Michelle,

You may want to try using a coffee filter instead of Excelsior. I find that both work pretty well for FF culture. I don't know what kind of synthetic "goodies" in Easter grass might get leached and passed along to the flies and ultimately the frogs. Even if only very tiny amounts are involved, over time it may present a problem for you. Just my two cents.

Bill


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Not to mention i beleive the weight of the larvae will cause that grass to sink into the media quite quickly. Especially if they are hydei, i have to put extra excelsior, or that happens.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Good point Ryan...I had not thought of that angle.

I should elaborate briefly on my concerns about potential toxicity of Easter grass. I believe that Easter grass tends to be composed of dye impregnated celluloid (cellulose plastic). This cellulose plastic is formed as a result of the production of cellulose nitrate from cellulose and the subsequent mixture with camphor, various dyes, etc. Easter grass is also treated to be flame retardant which means additional chemical additives. 

Most Easter grass used is considered non-toxic...after all children don't always discriminate between the candy and the grass :lol: In fact there is a form of Easter grass that is advertized as "edible" :shock: I doubt that form would hold up in FF cultures though. 

While celluloid like many other plastics is considered to be stable under most conditions, it can release materials as a result of contact with the external environment over the course of time. These can be chemicals themselves used in the production of celluloid, impurities from those chemicals or chemical breakdown products.

Sorry for the long post...my chemistry background is showing here. I could be totally off base but personally I would advise against running a toxicology experiment with your PDFs.

Bill


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## Blort (Feb 5, 2005)

elmoisfive said:


> Sorry for the long post...my chemistry background is showing here. I could be totally off base but personally I would advise against running a toxicology experiment with your PDFs.


Bill,

Don't apologize, that is interesting stuff.

From what I understand excelsior is a wood product. This had me confused for some time since places sell it as "excelsior moss". I'm fairly certain it isn't fire retardant, and since it isn't pressed it probably doesn't contain formaldehyde which is often a health factor with wood. It would be interesting to see if there is something else in the excelsior. On first glance, though, it looks like good stuff:

Here is a sample blurb:


> We use Great Lakes all natural aspen as a wood source for all of our wood excelsior products. We purchase aspen from only forest products companies that are members of the Sustainable Forestry Initiatives program. This ensures that the best environmental and forestry management practices are followed. We are proud of our environmental stewardship commitment.
> 
> Our Fiberex® Division is the industry leader in supplying quality excelsior products to gift basket suppliers, floral wholesalers, craft suppliers, and retail outlets with both natural and American Moss® dyed excelsior products in a rainbow of vibrant colors. Fiberex® provides a wide variety of product ranging from boxed excelsior, baled excelsior to specialized packaging for retail outlets. Excelsior is 100% biodegradable, safe and easy to work with. It is a favorite when used for wreaths, garlands, fruit and gift boxes or baskets. Excelsior fibers may be shaped, sized, glued, molded, matted or woven to fit many decorative applications.


http://www.amerexcel.com/solutions_excelsior.php

They should add, "Excelsior fibers may be shaped, sized, glued, molded, matted or woven to fit many decorative applications *and used for culturing fruit flies.*" I'm sure that would help their sales 

I think coffee filters are another good option since they are probably tested by the FDA to make sure they don't pass on anything nasty (aside from bad coffee  )

Marcos


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## Michelle (Sep 13, 2004)

Good info!! I sure hadn’t thought about all of that (I’m no chemist LOL I work in Marketing :lol: ) that’s why I thought I would ask you guys: D 
I will have to give coffee filters a try, so I take it you just crumple one up and anchor it in the media? I know I’m not liking the mold I’m seeing on the excelsior..... or maybe it’s just a normal part of all your cultures? 
thanks again!
Michelle


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*Hi Michelle*

When are you adding excelsior to your cultures? I add mine after the flies have produced larva. That way any mold spores that are on the Aspen wood get destroyed by the larva and adult actvity. I am surprised though that you got mold from the excelsior. Excelsior is just strips of aspen wood mostly, its a pretty benign wood. Some excelsior companies use grasses, and if that is the case then I wouldn't be surprised. But then again Aspen wood is not impervious to molds either. If the mold happened after you added flies and saw larva than it could be a million causes, not just the excelsoir. My two cents anyways.
Dave


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Michelle,

The easiest coffee filters to use are the cone filters. Just fold once or twice long the length of the cone...insert the conical end into the medium and let the paper relax...it looks like an ugly fluted funnel at that point in time but it works pretty well. You can do the same with basket filters by folding a few times to get a pointed end to stick into the medium.

I have never had an problem with mold on excelsior...and switch off between using coffee filters and excelsior. I tend to use excelsior for a bit...get tired of picking out pieces of it from the dusting cup, etc. and then switch to coffee filters :lol: Then switch back to excelsior after a few weeks (I know...will I ever learn  ).

The only downside that I've noticed with coffee filters is that your culture can dry up a bit quicker...since the filter wicks water out of the medium. Not a big problem though unless your house is very dry.

Bill


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## Michelle (Sep 13, 2004)

ahh ok, I’m adding mine to a NEW culture, when I make it up right from day one, so what your saying is I should wait until there is larva....... well ya know that makes a whole lot more sense LOL.... I can take a picture of the mold if you want, in some areas its going black almost, and in others its got this blue fuzzy looking mold, its only where it meets the media though so I’m sure it has something to do with the moisture in it.... but I will try not adding it till I see larva next time...


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

I find that when using coffe filters, or needle point mesh it is important to use more liquid as the cultures tend to dry out and produce very little flies. I made some buzzati using the mesh, and some turkish gliders with mesh, and a 1/2 cup of liquid in each, and the turkish glider culture dried out and produced about 50 flies, but the buzzati culture was perhaps the best hatch of buzzati I made as they like it on the drier side.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

I like the coffee filters too. I saturate them before I put them into the FF media. Also, I just mist the fly cultures when I notice the filters drying up.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Good idea about saturating the filters before using...I'll try that the next time I set up. I have misted before when things were getting a bit dry (I've had some cultures booming along 6+ weeks after seeding) but this sounds like a good way to keep things a bit damper. Thanks for the idea.

Bill


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