# LED Lights, what are you using?



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

LED lights, what are you using? How do you like them?

Frog room needs some love, and I need to change a lot of things around, lighting is just one aspect. Also looking for any tank builders near ohio as well.


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm using the Jungle Dawn LED bars from Light your reptiles on a new rack I built. I love them, very cool, great color, great plant growth. Very happy with them. They have a super slim profile so you can zip tie them to the bottom of the rack and keep them very close the the tanks without heat issues. They're slightly warm to the touch, and I mean Slight. I'll eventually be upgrading ALL my tanks to these.

On other tanks, I'm using the 9, 11, and 13 watt screw in Jungle Dawn LEDs. Extremely happy with these. I run 2 on an 18x18x24 footprint. I find this to be more than enough light, in fact, most would say my plant growth is excessive.


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I have LYR 24w LED spotlights on most of my tanks. Absolutely love them the 6500k and duo 4500k/6500k are more then enough light for tanks 24" tall fully planted and pull colors out of the broms. I know on rack systems they might be difficult to incorporate.

I also have a LYR LED bar but one is not any where close enough to light most of my vivs and would need 3 minimum to even compare to the spots.

sent from my Galaxy S lll


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

I also use 2 LYR 13w LEDs on an 18x18x24 and I would say plant growth is okay, color is very good. It's a little bit cooler white than a CFL. I think if they did a mix between cool white chips and warm whites, maybe a fuchsia or two, plant growth would be much better.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I tried one of those diy cree builds a few years ago, have since moved everything over to them. There isn't a commercial fixture that will match it for less than 2-3 times What it cost me.


----------



## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

Justin Y. recommended these spots. I got a couple of the 12 watt 6000k ones. They are cheap and work fairly nice. E27 PAR38 Bulb 7W 12W 15W Lens LED Spot Light Lamp Warm Cool White 85 240V | eBay


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

NathanB said:


> I tried one of those diy cree builds a few years ago, have since moved everything over to them. There isn't a commercial fixture that will match it for less than 2-3 times What it cost me.


what's your color combo?


----------



## nynewcomer (Dec 20, 2012)

NathanB said:


> I tried one of those diy cree builds a few years ago, have since moved everything over to them. There isn't a commercial fixture that will match it for less than 2-3 times What it cost me.


Instructions or link please


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

DIY LED FAQ - Where to begin?

Since we dot have water to deal with water you can use less leds, I have 6 xmls on my 29s, and they are plenty.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I've been wanting to try some of the cheaper Ebay led fixtures like this seller has..
items in topdogsellers store on eBay!

These evo's seem to be getting fairly decent reviews so I'll probably give one a shot. 

I also like jungledawn style lights but haven't tried them yet...Ironic since I think back in 2010 I was one of the first to talk about those kind of bulbs as a cheap LED solution on here. 

I don't wanna knock jungle dawn, but you can get similar style bulbs that look to be built the same way for about half the price if you search around...the main difference being they will not have the mix of warm/cool white led's...they will just be more typical 6500k bulbs...but everything else seems comparable. So that is an option for us broke kids....Always nice to support the sponsors though.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

This is worth a try for the price:
EVO 36" 6500K LED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant Tropical Fish Discus 24x 3W | eBay

Great data everyone, keep it coming.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Your better off getting something with Cree or Philips diodes. They are more powerful and efficient. What is the dimension of the tanks?


----------



## limike (Dec 29, 2012)

I had an extra Acan 104ac LED setup from my reef tank so I decided to use it. I know its overkill but it was doing me no good sitting in a box. What I love about them is they are dimmable and they also have a integrated programmable controller. It allows you to control the Intensity for the white, blue, and moon light and 5 individual time stages, each with programmable intensity control. I make it so the sun rises at a certain time gets brighter during the day and slowly come to a sun set. The plants are also really growing nicely.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

kyle1745 said:


> This is worth a try for the price:
> EVO 36" 6500K LED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant Tropical Fish Discus 24x 3W | eBay
> 
> Great data everyone, keep it coming.


Ya I think that would be worth trying for the price...

Would that be for a 40B? With the more focused light of led's (I hear some of the reef people say these fixture kinda spotlight a bit) and 40b's not being very tall (that kinda works in your favor), but kinda deep from front to back, you may find you need another smaller strip to light the background or front of tank adequately depending on where you position the light on top.

If it is a 40b since it isn't very tall you may get enough bounce/fill from total brightness to fill in the darker spots...hard to say since I've never used an led fixture.


----------



## titansfever83 (Jan 10, 2011)

unless you want to specifically spotlight an area for a particular plant that needs the light, then I would go with nothing less than an 80 degree LED. 80 degree will still spot light on tanks with minimum height. 

Just something I would ask the seller before purchasing. 

Anything higher than 80 will fill the tank nicely as long as the LED spacing is not drastic.


----------



## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

I have built 5 different led lights in the past year. All use cree xmls i like a combo of 2 3000k to 1 6500k leds for a warmish color temp. An even mix looks ok too. To my eye a 2 to1 ratio of cool to warm is too bluish for a frog tank. I used 3 emitters over each oh my new 10g verts and have decent par numbers. I amwaiting on my new drivers so i can turn on my 75 madagascar viv with its leds. I am impressed with how cool they keep the viv compared to my t5 lit viv.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I had a combo of Jungledawn 13 watt LED bulbs and 25 watt CFL's on a 65 gallon tank (24 inches tall). Two of each. I have swapped one of the CFL's for a third JungleDawn because some of the growth on that side of the tank was getting strappy. In two weeks, a guzmania has already coloured up, and putting out new sturdier, shorter leaves. Plant growth in the shadows at the bottom of the tank has also exploded, and is visible. I will never use CFL's again. 

Sidebar, but I've temperature gunned both CFL and JungleDawn bulbs. CFLs can run around 160-180 degrees, the JungleDawns 110-130. What's more, if using an Exo-Terra canopy, you can take out the reflector, which increases ventilation and heat dispersal. 

I have a 4xT5 setup that I'm going to change half of the bulbs to the lightyoureptiles LED light bars, we'll see what happens. 

Gonna experiment with a DIY soon...


----------



## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

skanderson said:


> I have built 5 different led lights in the past year. All use cree xmls i like a combo of 2 3000k to 1 6500k leds for a warmish color temp. An even mix looks ok too. To my eye a 2 to1 ratio of cool to warm is too bluish for a frog tank. I used 3 emitters over each oh my new 10g verts and have decent par numbers. I amwaiting on my new drivers so i can turn on my 75 madagascar viv with its leds. I am impressed with how cool they keep the viv compared to my t5 lit viv.


If you go XM-L's I would use this guy's mix. I'm running 50% cools and 50% neutrals on my latest money pit and the color is way too white for a viv. Its baffling as as I'm doing 80% cools and 20% neutrals on an XP-G fixture and the color could not be more perfect. I shall be picking up some warms tomorrow.

Before the DIY stuff I ran (and still run) the LYR 13 watt Jungle Dawns and the do an excellent job of growing plants and put out a nice color. They grow moss on the floor in a 24" tall tank pretty well so I'm comfortable recommending them for vivs up to that height.


----------



## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

NathanB said:


> I tried one of those diy cree builds a few years ago, have since moved everything over to them. There isn't a commercial fixture that will match it for less than 2-3 times What it cost me.


Ditto. Here is my build thread: JP's DIY LED Fixture - Reef Central Online Community


----------



## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Ive had good luck with Aquatraders - Guaranteed Best Prices on Aquarium Lightings + Free Shipping!

Although many will bash them I have set up many sucessful reefs for others using these lights and at least three planted aquariums. 

I have the LED's on my 55g mixed cichlid tank and Im thinking about selling the tank...

I never tried growing plants with the leds but on a small 20g dart tank you think it might be enough? 

Id actually have to buy a smaller one to make it fit on a 20g L -

LED Freshwater Bright

Someone should try these I think...


----------



## Guanton75 (Apr 30, 2009)

I've been DYIing using the Bridgelux products (pause while Cree loyalist rant...) I have a exo terra 24"x18"36" tall that I am lighting with three BXRA-56C0700-A-00 (5600k) and two BXRA-40E0810-A-00 (4000k). That is about 5000lm / 40w which is enough to grow Salvinia natans from nearly 3' away. At the top of the tank the broms are red. The light color mix is OK but like all LED systems you get bright spots that are a little more one color than the other.

I've also been using a pair of the BXRA-50C5300-H-00 (5100k) in an orchidarium which the plants have loved assuming they aren't so close they burn. 12000lm 100W, why wouldn't they love it... I like the color of these. They look a little strang but I think that's because I'm not used to that much light in a tank.

Both are being driven by a Basic Stamp for sunrise/sunset dimming.

Enjoy,
Seth


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Ugh... I typed out an extremely long post to explain some things and it was either deleted by a mod or didn't post. Basically the chlorophyll and caratenoids in chloroplasts needs 400-405 nm violet, 420 nm violet, royal blue, blue, and red colors in the spectrum. A good mix would be 10 cool whites, one royal blue, one blue, one of each violet, and a red. This type of full spectrum fixture is hands down the best way to do it. With the uni-color fixtures with only one color temp, you are missing a huge amount of the spectrum absorbed by chlorophyll.


----------



## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

curlykid said:


> Ugh... I typed out an extremely long post to explain some things and it was either deleted by a mod or didn't post.


No mods would delete a post without a reason and without letting you know about it. Your long post probably didn't go through. I just wanted to clarify that.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

You don't need to get fancy, I'm running 6 cool white xm-l leds on a 29 with no optics. Its more than adequate and is still affordable.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

kingfisherfleshy said:


> Ive had good luck with Aquatraders - Guaranteed Best Prices on Aquarium Lightings + Free Shipping!
> 
> Although many will bash them I have set up many sucessful reefs for others using these lights and at least three planted aquariums.
> 
> ...


My only issue with aquatraders is they are selling the Evo's and some of the other china brands like Topdogsellers on ebay, but for substantially more money. Like the one Kyle posted about being interested in is $50 more on aquatraders.

That freshwater bright looks ok except for that line of lights using 10000k and so many actinics. 10000k/with actinics is basically reef lighting...going to look really blue in a viv most likely. I'm sorry but just stamping "freshwater" on it doesn't make it so 

Led's are totally enough to grow plants...just need enough of them, like say 1-2 watts per gallon or more (I like 2-3 watts per gal with more standard lighting). You can usually get away with a little less wattage on LEDs because the led's penetrate better...but with the exception of the china brands getting enough for a larger tank becomes extremely costly compared to florescent solutions. 

The name brand manufactures are really taking advantage of the LED craze, and gauging us on prices. No way these things cost anywhere near what they are charging when you get materials in bulk. They are marking things up like 200%, when typical retail markup is more like 10-50%.


----------



## Guanton75 (Apr 30, 2009)

Attached should be a plot showing wavelength and intensity for one of the LED's I mentioned earlier. As you can see, despite the fact that they are a given color temp, there is still a wide range of wave lengths emitted. Ultimatly I think it's most important we a) don't blind our frogs and b) we like how the lights look.

The fact that you are getting twice the lm/W as with a CFL will make the plants happier.

Just my take on it...

Enjoy
-Seth


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Guanton75 said:


> Attached should be a plot showing wavelength and intensity for one of the LED's I mentioned earlier. As you can see, despite the fact that they are a given color temp, there is still a wide range of wave lengths emitted. Ultimatly I think it's most important we a) don't blind our frogs and b) we like how the lights look.
> 
> The fact that you are getting twice the lm/W as with a CFL will make the plants happier.
> 
> ...


I basically agree with that. Having more lighting in the 3500k-5500k range in our vivs where most of us are using 6500k lighting would be nice but unfortunately other then the jungledawn bulbs not many fixtures mix it up for you so you are left with a DIY solution, or using multiple fixtures with different average color temps. That is pretty easy to do with CFL, but so far I don't know of any LED manufactures building aquarium fixtures that go below 6500k. Can sometimes re purpose under cabinet lighting, or other led lighting though.

Adding some of the strip lights could supplement the color temp while not being to expensive. The trick is a lot of them don't come wired for just plugging into the wall. Like the led strip tape would be really easy to add to tanks but finding it with the connections and ac adapter already attached is a pain.










There are RGB ones though you can get that you can adjust with a remote like this...














These can be found on Ebay in 5 meter lengths with the 44 key controller, adapter and IR remote box/connections for under $25. "Search 44 key Led RGB waterproof strip" There is also a 24 key version that is cheaper but likely won't let you select as many specific color options to tune the look just/color temp just right. (And that is my point in posting these, they could be used to actively adjust the overall color temp of your viv)

Words of caution though: Many selling these do not include the ac adapter, and others that do often have a UK/EU adapter so you've gotta read the fine print. Some are waterproof/some are not...so gotta look for that too...but non waterproof would probably be fine unless you plan on spraying it down directly. Could probably build a splash guard really cheap/easily too.

Here is a non waterproof one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120933471365?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

a 1m waterproof one...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261094875072?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Here is a good deal on the 5m waterproof with the descriptions specifically stating it has a us plug (found lots with pictures of a US plug but the description didn't confirm it on the best priced ones)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-3528-RGB...0437700?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item23238f1fc4

You'll likely be seeing one of these incorporated into my upcoming special FX/holographic fairy viv.
Oh another cool thing about these 5m strips is once you get one you can easily buy the 44 key controller/Ir unit/ac adapter for cheap and cut off the excess from the first one and attach it to another setup and have 2 or more in shorter lengths that you could set at different colors to fine tune the look, or for special FX

Here is a site with quite a few LED options you might find useful.... Including more sophisticated RGB lighting that you can more precisely control each Led and get greater ranges of colors. 
http://www.environmentallights.com/led-rope-and-strip-lights/waterproof-led-strip-lights.html


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

A note on the above post:

I noticed some of the strips say 3528 Led and others say 5050...so I looked up the difference.

Its the LED dimensions and the 3528s have more leds but smaller, and they are only single color so to change color they just light up 1 of each set of 3 leds while the 5050s being a bigger chip house all 3 colors of led in the same chip, and theoretically are up the 3x bright according to one site. 

Also the site says the 5050 are better for RGB color use, while 3528's will give better fill in of light when they are all one color (because there are more of them and they are closer together even if they are smaller)
What is the difference between 3528 LEDs and 5050 LEDs |SMD 5050 SMD 3528

The last good deal on a 5m strip i posted is for 3528's.

Here is a 5050 verson that is a bit more expensive but still not bad...
12V 5M 5A 44 Keys 300 LED 5050 SMD RGB Flexible Light Strip IP33 Non Waterproof | eBay


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Okay it seems as though most of you are not very knowledgeable in the spectrum of LEDs and their effect on photosynthesis. Sure, any fixture will work because it's most likely touching the spectrum at some point, but if you want the most natural results it's best to use a full spectrum fixture. I personally don't even use one because I have no idea how to solder or how to wire them, but if I did I would use them. Also, those led strip things are not for keeping animals or plants alive. Those use very cheaply made Chinese LEDs and probably have half of what the par value of Cree LEDs is. This type of fixture might sound foreign to all of you but many reef aquarium enthusiasts are using it and it works very good for them. I get that this hobby tends to be "old-school" but it's pretty hard to ignore the facts.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Guanton75 said:


> Attached should be a plot showing wavelength and intensity for one of the LED's I mentioned earlier. As you can see, despite the fact that they are a given color temp, there is still a wide range of wave lengths emitted. Ultimatly I think it's most important we a) don't blind our frogs and b) we like how the lights look.
> 
> The fact that you are getting twice the lm/W as with a CFL will make the plants happier.
> 
> ...


Unless you are somehow getting uv or infrared leds, it's not going to blind anything, second, that range in that leds spectrum misses about %80 of what's absorbed by chlorophyll and caratenoids. And with the right ratio of led's and in the right placement, there won't be much difference to color.


----------



## RabidWombat (Aug 4, 2012)

I am just about done with my first DIY LED project. I have attached images of it. I just used a plastic rain gutter to make the housing for it. That worked out well. The only tasks left on it are some clean up tasks and I'll probably paint it black.

I went with three sets of three CREE XM-L LEDs. Each set has two Cool-White (6500k color) and one Warm-White (3000k color). I really like this color combo. It's easy on my eyes, colors look good, and the wavelengths in the tech docs match well with what plants need for photosynthesis. 

I actually don't have a frog tank set up yet. I'm just starting to work on a 40B now. I wanted to test the lights for a while before building and planting the tank to make sure it'd work. I've had some wheat grass under these lights for exactly a week. It's grown a little over an inch in that time. No too shabby... I think my plants will probably do fine.

I'm sure there are others more experienced than me, but if you decide to build your own I'd love to throw in some of the things I've learned from doing this. 

RW


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Why did you use optics?


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

curlykid said:


> Okay it seems as though most of you are not very knowledgeable in the spectrum of LEDs and their effect on photosynthesis. Sure, any fixture will work because it's most likely touching the spectrum at some point, but if you want the most natural results it's best to use a full spectrum fixture. I personally don't even use one because I have no idea how to solder or how to wire them, but if I did I would use them. Also, those led strip things are not for keeping animals or plants alive. Those use very cheaply made Chinese LEDs and probably have half of what the par value of Cree LEDs is. This type of fixture might sound foreign to all of you but many reef aquarium enthusiasts are using it and it works very good for them. I get that this hobby tends to be "old-school" but it's pretty hard to ignore the facts.


I understand it, but unfortunately unless you are a real DIY guy there just aren't many if any fixtures available for _decent cost_ that will put out the spectrums/par etc..etc.. that are optimal for plant growth and flowering.


Those strip lights put out 200ish for the 3528 led, and 300ish lumens for the 5050, so that is 1000+ lumens lighting that with that controller can be adjusted to augment/tune the visual appeal and add to the optimal conditions of plant growth for $30 or less...not much more cost then a couple of Cf spiral bulbs.

I'm sure the leds in the strips aren't as good as cree...maybe they aren't even epistar or whatever...but they are still smd's and can only suck so bad  Its cheap and it is better then nothing. We've all been growing viv plants quite nicely for years with less then optimal spectrum/par etc..etc...

The animals don't care much about the light...we are talking dart frogs not corals...so unless we use something uncomfortably bright, light the tank with green, purple, and amber all day/every day (might screw up their eyes) or with dangerous uv levels the frogs could give a flying flip...and any white led light of sufficient intensity will grow our viv plants. 

Sure we can adjust the spectrum for more optimal plant growth but as these are display tanks so we also want visual appeal...and most people don't like the look of light in a viv that goes outside of 5500k-7500k ranges. The strip lights were just suggested as a way to fine tune the visual appeal while perhaps adding a bit to the optimal plant spectrum in a cheap way...oh and have a cool FX effect at night (I suggest not running wacky fx lighting for long periods though just to be safe)


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

curlykid said:


> Okay it seems as though most of you are not very knowledgeable in the spectrum of LEDs and their effect on photosynthesis. Sure, any fixture will work because it's most likely touching the spectrum at some point, but if you want the most natural results it's best to use a full spectrum fixture. I personally don't even use one because I have no idea how to solder or how to wire them, but if I did I would use them. Also, those led strip things are not for keeping animals or plants alive. Those use very cheaply made Chinese LEDs and probably have half of what the par value of Cree LEDs is. This type of fixture might sound foreign to all of you but many reef aquarium enthusiasts are using it and it works very good for them. I get that this hobby tends to be "old-school" but it's pretty hard to ignore the facts.


Spectrum doesn't matter as much as you think it does, My vivs are doing better than with the compacts that have a "better" spectrum. But these also have a much higher par. 
Also, the fact that so many people like the lyr lights would prove you wrong about the Chinese leds


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

NathanB said:


> Spectrum doesn't matter as much as you think it does, My vivs are doing better than with the compacts that have a "better" spectrum. But these also have a much higher par.
> Also, the fact that so many people like the lyr lights would prove you wrong about the Chinese leds


Lyr lights? Link? These aren't ringing a bell.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

RabidWombat said:


> I am just about done with my first DIY LED project. I have attached images of it. I just used a plastic rain gutter to make the housing for it. That worked out well. The only tasks left on it are some clean up tasks and I'll probably paint it black.
> 
> I went with three sets of three CREE XM-L LEDs. Each set has two Cool-White (6500k color) and one Warm-White (3000k color). I really like this color combo. It's easy on my eyes, colors look good, and the wavelengths in the tech docs match well with what plants need for photosynthesis.
> 
> ...


Cool...I've been tempted to try this. I think I understand the wiring/heatsink attachments stuff. I'm just not clear on what you use to power them. Like a cpu psu? or are you splicing in some kinda ac adapter...or ballast? I'm foggy on that part and how to do it to make a light that won't burn my place down.

Any links that offer power supply explanations/products would be cool. 

One thing:

Are you going to add in more modules?...it looks like with your current setup your likely to get a spot lighting effect. Are such huge heat sinks necessary?


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Nathan, spectrum actually matters much more than you think. http://dedunn.edublogs.org/files/2011/06/absorption-spectra-29de0jr.jpg Shows the spectrum points in which chloroplasts absorb energy. Full Spectrum LED tank pictures - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums has lots of information on how chlorophyll reacts to the spectrum of the light it is exposed to, building a full spectrum led. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/186982-ultimate-led-guide/ As you can see in the dendrobate hobby we are very far behind others such as the reefing hobby in terms of technology. It doesn't really surprise me that not very many people here are very knowledgeable on this subject. I would recommend reading that last link as it will give you a good amount of essential info when it comes to LED's.


----------



## Guanton75 (Apr 30, 2009)

I found this image relivant, thanks to Marineland for putting the images together. The match on chlorophyll A could be better but chlorophyll B hits pretty well. Yes, there is some waisted energy between 500-620 nm which BTW is where CFL's put out almost all most of there energy. Easy to deduce from that LED's are better than CFL...

Enjoy,
Seth


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

And the cool white xm-l diods sufficiently hit those ranges to go and flower plants. Not only do I know that by looking at the data sheet, but I actually use them.........


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Guanton75 said:


> I found this image relivant, thanks to Marineland for putting the images together. The match on chlorophyll A could be better but chlorophyll B hits pretty well. Yes, there is some waisted energy between 500-620 nm which BTW is where CFL's put out almost all most of there energy. Easy to deduce from that LED's are better than CFL...
> 
> Enjoy,
> Seth


What is the context of the first graph?

Now reading the second graph that appears to be a similar profile to most of our viv lighting...lacking in the red spectrum, fairly decent in the blue which is why we've all been talking about adding 2500k-4500k lights to our setups, to hit that red a little harder and fill in the other areas.


----------



## RabidWombat (Aug 4, 2012)

NathanB said:


> Why did you use optics?


Without optics you're wasting a lot of light. The original tank I had (the one shown in the image) was a 29 gallon. I bused out a protractor and determined a 40 degree optic would provide a focused beam but I'd have plenty of overlap since they're all pretty close together. 

I purchased a 40B (petco 1$/gallon sale!) and I will most likely end up going with a 60 or even 80 degree optic since the tank is about a bit deeper. I'll wait till it get it all set to play with that more. 



Dendro Dave said:


> Cool...I've been tempted to try this. I think I understand the wiring/heatsink attachments stuff. I'm just not clear on what you use to power them. Like a cpu psu? or are you splicing in some kinda ac adapter...or ballast? I'm foggy on that part and how to do it to make a light that won't burn my place down.
> 
> Any links that offer power supply explanations/products would be cool.
> 
> ...


I went to the swap meet and picked up an old laptop power supply. It works great. It just hooks up to your driver(s) and that's it. The $6 I paid for the power supply was a nice savings!

The heatsink size doesn't matter too much, as long as it's not too small. I found heatsinks to be pretty darn pricey. I was looking at something around $70 from a few distributors. I got these at the recycle shop for about $8 and then cut them in half. Each half holds the 3 LEDs. Yes, they're a little bigger than what's actually needed, but these were cheap and they do the job.

I will say that i seriously underestimated how much heat these guys would put out. I know the heat output is not as high as some other types of light, but you will definitely need a fan. I ran these with no fan for about 15 minutes and the heatsink was almost too hot to touch. 


Currently, the spotlighting isn't an issue as I'm just in the planning phase of my viv. If it is an issue after the build is complete I'll go with a wider optic. 

Also, you can't tell there are two different color temps there. The spacing of the lights is pretty close, so they blend well. I will not be able to get to it tonight, but i'll try to take some pictures later this week. I'll just put a few objects under the light so you can see what it looks like.


And to the light spectrum conversation --- This is a good read Light Quality in Plant Growth and Development

And attached is the specrum graph for CREE XM-L leds. These graphs are very useful when determining which LED colors you want to pick.

RW


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

curlykid said:


> Nathan, spectrum actually matters much more than you think. http://dedunn.edublogs.org/files/2011/06/absorption-spectra-29de0jr.jpg Shows the spectrum points in which chloroplasts absorb energy. Full Spectrum LED tank pictures - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums has lots of information on how chlorophyll reacts to the spectrum of the light it is exposed to, building a full spectrum led. Ultimate LED guide - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums As you can see in the dendrobate hobby we are very far behind others such as the reefing hobby in terms of technology. It doesn't really surprise me that not very many people here are very knowledgeable on this subject. I would recommend reading that last link as it will give you a good amount of essential info when it comes to LED's.


Admittedly overall the dendro kids aren't as educated on this stuff as say the average reefer, but some of us including myself have researched all this stuff and even the reef lighting stuff though I've never done a reef tank. The lighting info was useful though at times.

BTW, I do agree that spectrum is important...I maintain though that outside the diy crowd/rich kids, most of us have to settle for creative but sometimes less then optimal solutions.


----------



## hypnoticaquatic (Dec 19, 2012)

i will have to say 100% spectrum fully matters there is no way around it, now what you can do is use more lights that have less par in that spec but you will still need to reach a specific par number in that range in order for the plant to be happy/healthy, this is how most of you will have to do it as you want to view the flora/fauna rather than just grow it or it would be mostly red and blue lights which isnt really pleasant to view.

for heat sinks this is one area that is a major component of the light, if you go cheap u will need fans and if that fan ever has an issue its best to use a good heat sink that can distribute the heat by itself if not your diode can have a much shorter life. if you build one build the sink so you dont have to run noisy fans(tip)car audio amps work great as heat sinks
if you cant spend $ on new find recycled parts

next you have optics in all honesty i wouldnt go anything less than 120-90° its better to have the spread for blending light colors and it will look much better not having the spotlight effect. if u even look at aquarium lights or grow lights there mostly around those optics. 

one thing i can say dont build/get a set up that isnt dimmable, after having ones that do and dont i will not ever get another that i cant dim. also when changing to high powered leds go slowly and let your plants adjust to the higher light(par) levels you can stress/burn them very easy.
another thing to look into is the conversion rate of watts to light most ive seen (common) are 20% best one ive seen was 40% just something know.


----------



## SDRiding (Jul 31, 2012)

Anyone have any experience with Steve's LEDs? It's primarily geared toward reef keepers so the number of LEDs per kit will be much higher than would be needed in a typical vivarium. The heat sink design is what really caught my attention. It's a tubular design utilizing a pressurizing fan to reduce weight, cost, and supposedly heat. I've never used any of their products, but it does look interesting. They will weld the heat sinks to your specs (I e-mailed them with a few basic questions). Yet another option to toss on the pile!

Steve's LEDs


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SDRiding said:


> Anyone have any experience with Steve's LEDs? It's primarily geared toward reef keepers so the number of LEDs per kit will be much higher than would be needed in a typical vivarium. The heat sink design is what really caught my attention. It's a tubular design utilizing a pressurizing fan to reduce weight, cost, and supposedly heat. I've never used any of their products, but it does look interesting. They will weld the heat sinks to your specs (I e-mailed them with a few basic questions). Yet another option to toss on the pile!
> 
> Steve's LEDs


Never heard of them till now....looks ok, fairly high quality components, but a lot more expensive then the china brands, but not quite as much as some of the name brand reef led systems.

Looks like he is using a combo of neutral white and the blues....that might even out the color some, and be tolerable visually to some people's taste...but I think most froggers probably won't like the looks of it. He may be willing to customize a setup for people though with cool/warm combos instead of the blue. Worth asking him about if it otherwise appeals to you. 

On a side note:
Bit pricey but I found these...a hybrid warm/cool strip light that is adjustable similar to the rgb strips I posted so you could really tune the visual effect. It is also almost 4000 lumen. I found another strip that used epistar leds but now I've lost it, I'll try to find it again.
(This site is worth exploring a little or anyone interested in LEDs)
Switchble hybrid LED strip light - choose between Warm White and Bright White

-----------
-------
---
-
Well not the one I found earlier but here is a reel of epistar strip leds 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-Roll-LED...74?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item2a27344e4e

If you had a vert viv, you could drop one of these 50w spots on it for $60. (they make 100w + ones too)...(I think all you'd have to do is wire in a wall plug, because the rest is contained in the unit...I think, but could be wrong.) Can anyone clarify/verify that?








http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W-20W-30W...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item2c681a2d58


----------



## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

I used a tubular heatsink and fan from steves on two of my three unit recent led build due to height restrictions and have found them to be working well. One comment on the discussion over spectrum is that the primary factor is a pleasing appearance. The best way to get good growth and flowering is with the disco appearing red blue leds that are frequently used to grow pot. My observation has been, over the last 6 months, is that if i get the appearance that i find pleasing and a par of around 50 at the substrate i will get excellent growth that at least matches my t5 setup. In my large viv i am growing and flowering multiple species 60 inches under my led fixture that is a 2/1 cool to warm cree xml fixture. It has 24 emitters and lights over 6 square feet of viv. One more quick point if i was to do my small viv leds over i would switchto using more numbers of lower wattage emitters to get more even light distribution.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Dendro Dave said:


> Admittedly overall the dendro kids aren't as educated on this stuff as say the average reefer, but some of us including myself have researched all this stuff and even the reef lighting stuff though I've never done a reef tank. The lighting info was useful though at times.
> 
> BTW, I do agree that spectrum is important...I maintain though that outside the diy crowd/rich kids, most of us have to settle for creative but sometimes less then optimal solutions.


I agree with you on that one. I'm not much of a DIY person myself.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Guanton75 said:


> I found this image relivant, thanks to Marineland for putting the images together. The match on chlorophyll A could be better but chlorophyll B hits pretty well. Yes, there is some waisted energy between 500-620 nm which BTW is where CFL's put out almost all most of there energy. Easy to deduce from that LED's are better than CFL...
> 
> Enjoy,
> Seth


Chlorophyll B makes up a very small amount of the chloroplast compared to caratenoids and chlorophyll a which make up the most of it, usually 90% or so.


----------



## senditdonkey (Jan 19, 2013)

curlykid said:


> Chlorophyll B makes up a very small amount of the chloroplast compared to caratenoids and chlorophyll a which make up the most of it, usually 90% or so.



Mini me / Ed junior?


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

lol not even close!


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

senditdonkey said:


> Mini me / Ed junior?


We could use an army of Ed's if you ask me. I know a little about most things, and a lot about some, but that guy's depth of knowledge in anything he speaks about is impressive...and he is a reasonable/common sense person, who backs it up with sources. An asset to the board... one of the voices of reason! 

Now let me wipe this brown off my nose...


----------



## RobR (Dec 24, 2011)

To anyone who's made the switch to LEDs on a viv already running on fluorescents. Did you notice less condensation?


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

RobR said:


> To anyone who's made the switch to LEDs on a viv already running on fluorescents. Did you notice less condensation?


I can't speak from experience, but a guy on Dart Den posted a bunch of data logging info he collected that showed his humidity spiking mid-day when his temps did...so If Leds run cooler I'd think they would decrease the overall level of evaporation, thus condensation.


----------



## aplatowski (May 6, 2004)

I need a circadian timer...ever since I moved my frogs into the basement they've stopped breeding. The only change has been the lack of daylight and the seasonal changes in day length. I could spend a few hundred dollars on a reef controller but it seems like a waste of money to buy something that will monitor Ph and ORP. Any ideas ??


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I have not noticed a noticable differance in condenstation between tanks with lighting provided by T-8 and 24w LED spot lights or CFLs. 

sent from my Galaxy S lll


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

T-5's will have better growth generally because they use more of the spectrum. LED's and CFL's are going to have no difference because they use the same spectrum.


----------



## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

i havent noticed any difference in growth between t5s and leds when the par numbers are close. i did try to approximately match the color temp but im sure they are way different in their emission spectra.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

curlykid said:


> T-5's will have better growth generally because they use more of the spectrum. LED's and CFL's are going to have no difference because they use the same spectrum.


Since when did cfls and leds have the same spectrum?


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

As soon as 6500 Kelvin meant 6500 Kelvin...


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

curlykid said:


> As soon as 6500 Kelvin meant 6500 Kelvin...


Sorry kid, just because you read a few things on the internet doesn't mean your an expert. LEDS have a narrow spectrum compared to fluorescents, which include t-5s and cfls. So Mr expert, explain how t-5s have better spectrum and cfls are the same as leds?


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

T5's generally have more blue and violet in the spectrum than LED's and CFL's:

http://images.monstermarketplace.co...ectrum-daylight-lamp-by-wavepoint-400x400.jpg

http://www.eyepoppincorals.com/images/aquasun.jpg

And the only thing CFL's have more of than white LED's is more yellow and orange, both of which are useless to photosynthesis:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...bTnTI3gB1i_f3zLOZOvVfMg3fykHh1eboS7tKskAbzY5g

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...VYcGSyOXloS8oWG_iBMUgnCeq6LKglHU4RDYirXYyXv_t

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...axgBySYJIRbNZZhkHISpScZPlkAAZ-N8wtb7guzsB9L4J

Granted, some graphs do show a small amount of violet so I suppose you were right in that CFL's are better than LED's. Still, T5's show more violet, blue, and red than either of them.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

And the rudeness really isn't necessary.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

So your comparing the fancy t5s to the household cfls?


----------



## hypnoticaquatic (Dec 19, 2012)

i can say that there is only a difference in growth when u have more light output in specific areas of par, the rest is used very minimally. t5 will not grow better than leds if they are the same output and vice versa, this is the reason growers use leds over hids now, they concentrate on the usable areas of the spectrum reds,blues, with only a few whites. as plants dont use much in green/yellow,uv,infared. 

remember kelven isnt a good way to judge spectrum just like lumens isnt a good way to judge par.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

NathanB said:


> So your comparing the fancy t5s to the household cfls?


Well, if you are right about all fluorescents being the same then there shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

hypnoticaquatic said:


> i can say that there is only a difference in growth when u have more light output in specific areas of par, the rest is used very minimally. t5 will not grow better than leds if they are the same output and vice versa, this is the reason growers use leds over hids now, they concentrate on the usable areas of the spectrum reds,blues, with only a few whites. as plants dont use much in green/yellow,uv,infared.
> 
> remember kelven isnt a good way to judge spectrum just like lumens isnt a good way to judge par.


I hope this wasn't about my post because I agree that kelvin only describes the visual color of different parts of the spectrum blended together. I agree that PAR from LED's is no different from T5's as long as you use a full spectrum fixture.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

curlykid said:


> Well, if you are right about all fluorescents being the same then there shouldn't be a problem.


lol, dude, do you even know the difference between t-5s and cfls, or how fluorescents even work? Tell me how a GE 6,500k t5 bulb has a better spectrum than a GE 6,500k CFL. .....hint, they are the same. 



curlykid said:


> T-5's will have better growth generally because they use more of the spectrum. LED's and CFL's are going to have no difference because they use the same spectrum.


That is completely wrong. T-5s will not grow better than LEDS or CFLs "because they use more of the spectrum". I get better growth with the LEDS, even though they have a narrower spectrum, because they put out much more par.


----------



## gooch (Jun 18, 2008)

I have two Kessel 150 watt Amazon LED pendants on a 65 gallon Viv. Probably overkill but plant growth is insane. I probably have eight inches of undergrowth in the tank. I let it go wild. I have an african violet that has been flowering for about three months now. I had been using t-5's. I hated them on my reef tanks and hated them on my frog tank.


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

gooch said:


> I have two Kessel 150 watt Amazon LED pendants on a 65 gallon Viv. Probably overkill but plant growth is insane. I probably have eight inches of undergrowth in the tank. I let it go wild. I have an african violet that has been flowering for about three months now. I had been using t-5's. I hated them on my reef tanks and hated them on my frog tank.


You the same Gooch that had the reef products like hand made plugs, pillars etc...?

Those are some nice LEDs.....


----------



## Ray (May 12, 2009)

I am getting LEDs made for me that have a mix of cold white, warm white, and red chips, and it has led me to do some research.

A T5 bulb MADE FOR PLANTS will have a better spectrum than will one for residential lighting, because they have blended the phosphors to attempt to match a true black body color temperature, rather than the "corrected" color temperature, meant to fool the human eye, as was mentioned above. Similarly, if the CFL is made for plants, it will be better than one intended for residential lighting. They simply are not all the same. (I am not a fan of CFLs, as the design loses a lot of light to the inside of the spiral.)

When it comes to LEDs, the primary spectral difference between a 6500K "cct" chip and a 3200K one is the amount of blue. Neither has a great deal of red (which is why I have them added to my bulbs), and both have a great deal of emission in between the two - which makes it appear very bright to us, but doesn't add a great deal to the growth of plants under them.

I just wish that chip producers would make phosphor blends closer to those of T5 plant lights.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hypnoticaquatic said:


> i can say that there is only a difference in growth when u have more light output in specific areas of par, the rest is used very minimally. t5 will not grow better than leds if they are the same output and vice versa, this is the reason growers use leds over hids now, they concentrate on the usable areas of the spectrum reds,blues, with only a few whites. as plants dont use much in green/yellow,uv,infared.
> 
> remember kelven isnt a good way to judge spectrum just like lumens isnt a good way to judge par.


Led's tend to get better penetration/depth with a more focused beam, plus cfl/t-5 at least half the bulb is pointed away from the target with only a refector to make up the difference...so with similar par and spectrum you're likely going to get better results with led's because of the more focused light they put on target at a greater intensity


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Switched everything from HOT5 to LEDs, have not looked back since, the plants do so much better with the LEDs


----------



## hypnoticaquatic (Dec 19, 2012)

Dendro Dave said:


> Led's tend to get better penetration/depth with a more focused beam, plus cfl/t-5 at least half the bulb is pointed away from the target with only a refector to make up the difference...so with similar par and spectrum you're likely going to get better results with led's because of the more focused light they put on target at a greater intensity


leds with optics rarely should be used for these type of applications, when u use optics with little height you will be likely to sun bleach your plants. ive done it a couple times*which is another reason to get one u can dim. all my leds have 120° and they are more than enough.

if you focus the light to match the par of a t5 then the spot light effect will not have the same par outside of that area and that area will grow less than other areas, there are other areas that deal with plant growth also though. now if the par was the same befor u used optics then the par there in the spotlight will be higher and cant be used for comparison as the baseline arent the same for both. 

its kinda like comparing a t5 without a reflector to a t5 with a parabolic as you can increase the light up to 300% not a fair assessment. but if you have more t5s without reflectors to boost the par to the same levels then you will not see a growth difference from the light alone.

hope that explains it a little better?


----------



## jejton (Sep 3, 2006)

Anyone try the screw in LED's that are made to fit regular incandescent fixtures?


----------



## asunderco (Apr 4, 2011)

Azurel said:


> You the same Gooch that had the reef products like hand made plugs, pillars etc...?
> 
> Those are some nice LEDs.....


Soooooooo nice indeed!


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

jejton said:


> Anyone try the screw in LED's that are made to fit regular incandescent fixtures?


That is what the jungle dawns (site sponsor) are, and word is people like them. I think I was actually the first to suggest trying those style bulbs in a thread from 2010 but I never got around to it myself. There are very similar bulbs that don't have the cool/warm led combo like the jungle dawns but are almost half the price that I'll probably be trying in the near future.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hypnoticaquatic said:


> leds with optics rarely should be used for these type of applications, when u use optics with little height you will be likely to sun bleach your plants. ive done it a couple times*which is another reason to get one u can dim. all my leds have 120° and they are more than enough.
> 
> if you focus the light to match the par of a t5 then the spot light effect will not have the same par outside of that area and that area will grow less than other areas, there are other areas that deal with plant growth also though. now if the par was the same befor u used optics then the par there in the spotlight will be higher and cant be used for comparison as the baseline arent the same for both.
> 
> ...


Those are good points, and i've always hoped I'd be able to pop the lenses off some of the off the shelf fixtures If ever I could afford them


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

NathanB said:


> lol, dude, do you even know the difference between t-5s and cfls, or how fluorescents even work? Tell me how a GE 6,500k t5 bulb has a better spectrum than a GE 6,500k CFL. .....hint, they are the same.
> 
> That is completely wrong. T-5s will not grow better than LEDS or CFLs "because they use more of the spectrum". I get better growth with the LEDS, even though they have a narrower spectrum, because they put out much more par.


6500k does not describe the spectrum, only the visual appearance of the light. Also, you seem to know little about how spectrum correlates with photosynthesis. Once again, chlorophyll can only absorb certain parts of the spectrum, particularly 405 nm, 420 nm, 460 nm, and 660 nm. PAR, however, measures from 400 to 700 nm, pretty much the full visible spectrum, and a majority of it contains wavelengths unusable by plants. Therefore, PAR isn't necessarily an accurate way to measure the amount of energy the plants are actually absorbing, especially in the case of white LED's in which almost all of the light is focused between 500 and 600 nm. I'm beginning to think that you really don't know anything about lighting or photosynthesis.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

> 6500k does not describe the spectrum, only the visual appearance of the light


Yes we know that, whats your point?


> Also, you seem to know little about how spectrum correlates with photosynthesis. Once again, chlorophyll can only absorb certain parts of the spectrum, particularly 405 nm, 420 nm, 460 nm, and 660 nm. PAR, however, measures from 400 to 700 nm, pretty much the full visible spectrum, and a majority of it contains wavelengths unusable by plants. Therefore, PAR isn't necessarily an accurate way to measure the amount of energy the plants are actually absorbing, especially in the case of white LED's in which almost all of the light is focused between 500 and 600 nm. I'm beginning to think that you really don't know anything about lighting or photosynthesis.


Wrong as usual, go open a science book and you'll see chlorophyll absorbs a range of visible light, infact it uses most of the spectrum outside of green and the end of the red, And then there are the accessory pigments that use other parts of the spectrum. But go on and tell us how all the majority of the led fixtures people have been using in the aquarium/vivarium hobby dont grow healthy thriving plants; since they are not using the disco lights to hit the spectral peaks of chlorophyll .


----------



## froggzilla36 (Feb 4, 2012)

I have been using a finnex ray 2 and a finnex ray. They are intended for aquarium use on a planted tank but I now use Kessil Amazon 150 for my planted aquarium so am testing the finnex over my terrarium. I like the finnex ray 2 because it is super bright, a nice white illumination. The finnex is a less powerful model because it incorporates space for blue lunar LEDS. I don't typically use them because the fixture only has one power chord so i have to disconnect from timer and replug into a night outlet to use the lunar LEDS but they are quite cool if you're frogs are scared of the dark and need a night light. Before this I was using compact flourescents and i noticed my plants respond nicely with new shoots once lighted with LED's for about a month.


----------



## froggzilla36 (Feb 4, 2012)

Also to answer a previous posted question, I have not noticed any less condensation when i switched to the LEDs. You might find this link useful, it highlights different PAR ratings for different fixtures.LED Lighting Compendium


----------



## hypnoticaquatic (Dec 19, 2012)

NathanB said:


> Yes we know that, whats your point?
> 
> Wrong as usual, go open a science book and you'll see chlorophyll absorbs a range of visible light, infact it uses most of the spectrum outside of green and the end of the red, And then there are the accessory pigments that use other parts of the spectrum. But go on and tell us how all the majority of the led fixtures people have been using in the aquarium/vivarium hobby dont grow healthy thriving plants; since they are not using the disco lights to hit the spectral peaks of chlorophyll .


as i posted befor as long as there is enough par in that specific nm by using either blue/red or more white (as whites produce less par in that area) the results will be the same. here are some graphs from different sources.
1.2.2
Chlorophyll | Causes of Color
Botany online: Photosynthesis - Absorption Spectra - Chlorophyll a and b 
now if we can just get the childish bickering to end as its not needed, and imo deters people wanting to contribute usefull info.

as to par not being a accurate way to measure how much energy its getting, idk how your saying it doesnt measure accurately? can u explain this to me? as it can even breaks par into individual bins for specific areas of the spectrum. if im wrong and thats a inaccurate way to measure light then can u show me what i need to do it accurately.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

NathanB said:


> Yes we know that, whats your point?
> 
> Wrong as usual, go open a science book and you'll see chlorophyll absorbs a range of visible light, infact it uses most of the spectrum outside of green and the end of the red, And then there are the accessory pigments that use other parts of the spectrum. But go on and tell us how all the majority of the led fixtures people have been using in the aquarium/vivarium hobby dont grow healthy thriving plants; since they are not using the disco lights to hit the spectral peaks of chlorophyll .


Blind leading the blind as usual here..... If you don't know anything about this subject then why do you continue to argue? Also, most growers that use leds are using a magenta colored fixture which usually features blue and red, possibly violet. Maybe you should go learn about lighting from them as you obviously aren't listening to anyone.


----------



## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

Hello, just wanted to share what I use. 
Finnex Ray2 Aquarium LED Daylight, 36-Inch
Dual 7k strip. Getting some good plant
Growth.


----------



## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

hypnoticaquatic said:


> as i posted befor as long as there is enough par in that specific nm by using either blue/red or more white (as whites produce less par in that area) the results will be the same. here are some graphs from different sources.
> 1.2.2
> Chlorophyll | Causes of Color
> Botany online: Photosynthesis - Absorption Spectra - Chlorophyll a and b
> ...


Those graphs show the relative rate of absorption not photosynthesis, there is a difference. But I'm agreeing with you about the range. We just have someone with no experience with led's telling us all that we can't grow healthy thriving plants with white leds, and thus need to use multiple colors to hit the whole spectrum. And make our frog tanks look like a bad disco club.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

I use LED's and CFL's, and I can tell you I get better growth with fluorescent lighting because of a much wider spectrum that hits on peak absorption points. Yes, LED's will grow healthy plants, but from my experience and research, as well as information that pretty much anyone can find on the internet, fixtures utilizing more of the spectrum than just blue and yellow will grow plants faster and yield better coloration. This is all common sense, experience, basic research skills that yield these findings. Also, with the right placement of LED's on a fixture, there will be no disco effect. I know exactly what you mean by that as it annoys me too, however if you make sure the led's are positioned closely and the fixture itself is far enough above the vivarium, the disco effect will be non-existent.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

hypnoticaquatic said:


> as i posted befor as long as there is enough par in that specific nm by using either blue/red or more white (as whites produce less par in that area) the results will be the same. here are some graphs from different sources.
> 1.2.2
> Chlorophyll | Causes of Color
> Botany online: Photosynthesis - Absorption Spectra - Chlorophyll a and b
> ...


If you could go back and read my past posts you would find the answers, but to put it simply, PAR measures from 400 to 700 nm, and as you probably know, plants only use about 30% of that. So if you have a fixture with only yellow or green light it may measure a high PAR value, but plants will not be able to use the light as it does not hit any absorption points.


----------



## hypnoticaquatic (Dec 19, 2012)

curlykid said:


> If you could go back and read my past posts you would find the answers, but to put it simply, PAR measures from 400 to 700 nm, and as you probably know, plants only use about 30% of that. So if you have a fixture with only yellow or green light it may measure a high PAR value, but plants will not be able to use the light as it does not hit any absorption points.


correct if u reread what i posted there are par meters that specifically show the par in bins that are allocated to areas of the spectrum where the plant uses the light, we all know yellows an greens dont get used much. actually par measures all light uv infared is included. this is why par meters are the best thing to measure light with as we can see specific areas of output and/or get the total output combined.

here is a link to show u a type of par meter 



 and how it can measure the whole output and specific areas*which are the main focus of this whole thing* 

for the rate of absorbtion and spec. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/biology/ligabs.html


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Not sure where you get that uv and infrared is included. any documents to prove it? Also, that link wasn't really saying much about anything other than what we already know apparently. Never mind, didn't see your video... yeah that doesn't really matter that it measures uv and infrared lol. UV is damaging to all life so a par meter that measures it isn't really better than one that doesn't. Your video also helps my point in that certain wavelengths (blue, violet, red) are very important to health and growth of plants. Also, it's not PAR if it's not photosynthetically available obviously, and plants do not absorb uv and infrared directly. and the led they are using utilizes red, blue, and violet, not white only.


----------



## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

curlykid said:


> If you could go back and read my past posts you would find the answers, but to put it simply, PAR measures from 400 to 700 nm, and as you probably know, plants only use about 30% of that. So if you have a fixture with only yellow or green light it may measure a high PAR value, but plants will not be able to use the light as it does not hit any absorption points.


What do you mean by absorption points? Is this different than the spikes within that range where the wavelength is most absorbable by plants?


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

That's exactly what I mean, yes.


----------



## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

curlykid said:


> That's exactly what I mean, yes.


Do you have a chart or graph that shows these absorbtion points?


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices/Chlorophyceae/Chl_a_b_carotenoids_absorption-spectrum.jpg

Chlorophyll A holds priority as it makes up most of the chlorophyll, caratenoids are the 2nd biggest, and chlorophyll b makes up about 10% of it. It may vary from plant to plant between caratenoids and chlorophyll a though.


----------



## hypnoticaquatic (Dec 19, 2012)

why they dont use more white vs red blue has already been stated a few times by me alone, its because its more energy efficient to use blue/red. white can and do grow just fine but you will need more an that will need more diodes and wattage to get to the same par #'s. white are used so we can view them as most are not looking to just grow plants but to view them.

and yes it is good that it does measure uv/infared as you have said urself uv is harmful so its good to see what output it has, also knowing this allows u to see a general baseline to measure a light vs another light type. 

now if your trying to prove that whites dont/cant grow plants with white diodes vs red/blue diodes @ the same par #'s please show info that backs this up as ive yet to find any. if this isnt what your trying to say then please explain.


----------



## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

This is getting so repetitive; I really don't want to go any further. With some common sense and research I'm sure you can find the answers yourself...


----------



## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

curlykid said:


> http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices/Chlorophyceae/Chl_a_b_carotenoids_absorption-spectrum.jpg
> 
> Chlorophyll A holds priority as it makes up most of the chlorophyll, caratenoids are the 2nd biggest, and chlorophyll b makes up about 10% of it. It may vary from plant to plant between caratenoids and chlorophyll a though.


Thank you - helpful chart. I'd only ever found charts with Chlorophyll A before. 

Building a new plant growing only LED fixture. Between CREE and Philips you can get LED's that hit pretty much all of those spikes. And the light actually doesn't look too bad if you hit it with a bunch of XM-L cools running 10v @2300mA.


----------



## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Has anyone used the finnex ray 2? It seems to be popular in the aquarium world.


----------



## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey all , I haven't posted anything in a looong time , but I've been lurking . 
I seen these in a catalog I've received lately and thought they might be worth a look . I really didn't read up on them at all but they might work for tank lighting ? They would be real nice where space is limited .

RibbonFlex Pro™ Warm White LED Tape Lighting System - Lee Valley Tools

RibbonFlex Pro™ 12V Power Supplies - Lee Valley Tools


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

pigface said:


> Hey all , I haven't posted anything in a looong time , but I've been lurking .
> I seen these in a catalog I've received lately and thought they might be worth a look . I really didn't read up on them at all but they might work for tank lighting ? They would be real nice where space is limited .
> 
> RibbonFlex Pro™ Warm White LED Tape Lighting System - Lee Valley Tools
> ...


There are cheaper tapes out there I think...I can get 5m of RGB, or any color and the power supplies off ebay for cheaper then that I think.


----------



## shutter (Mar 30, 2012)

Does anybody have a good DIY method to hang/mount the LYR screw type bulbs on a rack system? Since they're uni-directional, I'm looking for a clean and minimal way to mount these.


----------



## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

shutter said:


> Does anybody have a good DIY method to hang/mount the LYR screw type bulbs on a rack system? Since they're uni-directional, I'm looking for a clean and minimal way to mount these.


yup, ill post a pic later


----------



## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> That is what the jungle dawns (site sponsor) are, and word is people like them. I think I was actually the first to suggest trying those style bulbs in a thread from 2010 but I never got around to it myself. There are very similar bulbs that don't have the cool/warm led combo like the jungle dawns but are almost half the price that I'll probably be trying in the near future.


You must remember that Jungle Dawns™ are not only mixed white kelvin diodes (first implemented by yours truly here in the whole pet hobby, btw)
but also _special drivers that allow them to hold up for years in confined hoods like exo and zoo med._
Trial and error, investment and hard work.

Plus of course then there is that percentage of money I spend *to actually contribute to this hobby by donating product to regional clubs, reptile rescue and forum sponsorship.*
AND... 
on top of that I have to put back into R&D to make it all move forward and make / improve / innovate new products.

So please keep in mind you get what you pay for ... 

along with someone that stands 100% behind everything they sell too boot.


Cheers!
Todd


Light Your Reptiles
[email protected]

Speaking of putting back in R&D .....

here are some _dimmable_ beta models of what I am currently working on.
lux 630-650 x 10 at 12".
almost 1 watt +/- per inch @ 36v / 48v drivers.
& note the water-proof (with o-ring) connectors / fittings. 
Just trying to go the extra mile.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Venutus1 said:


> You must remember that Jungle Dawns™ are not only mixed white kelvin diodes (first implemented by yours truly here in the whole pet hobby, btw)
> but also special drivers that allow them to hold up _for years _in confined hoods like exo and zoo med.
> Trial and error, investment and hard work.
> 
> ...


No doubt, and I'd really like to try those, but they are a bit pricey for me right now. I'm all for supporting the sponsors but I've found similar bulbs that *seem* to be similarly constructed but only have the 6500k Leds, for 1/2 the cost. So with me being unemployed, I'll be trying those first when the current cfl screw ins I'm using die.

Most of those have been going for a couple years, so if I can get 2 13 watt 6500k led bulbs in a that stick configuration like yours for 15-$20, basically 2 bulbs for the price of 1 LYR led that last at least a year or 2 I'll feel like I got my money's worth...my broke butt has gotta risk it and try those first 

I've been following this style of bulb since 2010 when I first suggest people try them on DB, but I'll let other people do the leg work to find such bulbs with similar output and # of leds as the LYR bulb, with the e26/27 screw in base for themselves.... there are a lot of subtle differences between many of them, with many not being as good/appropriate as they initially seem.

*So if anyone wants to save themselves some leg work and just go with a good bulb that has a lot of happy users and is a forum sponsor go LYR leds *

This broke kid is going to have to make due with second rate stuff for now


----------



## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

Todd and LYR has been a great resource for myself, he is willing to spend the time on the phone to explain products and provide recommendations for your viv. I don't think you will find another vendor of LEDs specific to our hobby like him. Not sucking up.


----------



## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Build My Led, with the simulated data they provide I'm sure a lot of the discussions on this thread would be resolved. Just go play around in the design it yourself section...

Custom Fixture design

Btw if anyone has used one of their lights in a viv, could you post some pics of your spectrum?


----------



## Dworon1 (May 19, 2012)

Just saw this
ttp://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-led-lightbulb-is-the-cree-warm-white/


----------



## shockingelk (May 14, 2008)

A few months ago after a move, I switched from 54W T5s to 13W Jungle Dawns: 2 per 25G, 3 per 40BR. Plant growth is as good or better than 2x T5 fixtures suspended several inches above the tanks.

Placed directly on the glass, they raise the temps 78 F from ambient, placed 3/4" away they raise the temps 3-4F. 

The switch was because my vivs are now in the living room for which the T5s were too bright. The Jungle Dawns are very nice.


----------



## Wings (Apr 1, 2012)

rabu92 said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Build My Led, with the simulated data they provide I'm sure a lot of the discussions on this thread would be resolved. Just go play around in the design it yourself section...
> 
> Custom Fixture design
> 
> Btw if anyone has used one of their lights in a viv, could you post some pics of your spectrum?


These are good lights for vivs, and you can get an adjustable pot for light control. I wouldn't put one over my aquarium yet, though for other reasons. The price is just a tad over what I would consider a well built LED. They are working on it though. Can't beat a fully custom spectrum!

I use one of these as well, freshwater aquarium spec.
PAR30 Reef Lamp


----------



## Trey (Sep 10, 2008)

Radions ftw!  lol probably overkill but I used them on my reef in the past and they are great


----------

