# plants



## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

I would like to have some moss in my frogtank but do not know what kind to use or does it even matter?


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

I collected all my moss from parks in the city. The best kind is sheet moss, which when you collect it comes off the ground and looks like a sheet of moss. 

When you put it in your tank, you can rip it up into clumps and plant in several parts of your tank. As long as it gets plenty of light and lots and lots of moisture it will do great. I would also keep some in about 1 inch of water or less to keep it as a stock for future use. The moss I collected once from a New York City park, which was no more than a handfull, was grew into enough to plant and seed my other two tanks.
Above all else, be patient!


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I have to disagree. People who keep frogs, especially darts use SPAGHNUM moss. Other mosses can actually be harmful (to the plants). Make sure that what you have is pure spaghnum moss, Canadian or New Zealand is best. Either live (expensive) or dried will work. The dried will start to grow back in time, and especially after you add springtails to your tank, you should never have to change the moss out, at least not for a long time. I will not use anything else in my tanks. Its the best.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

How do mosses damage other plants?


I use 2 tropical mosses, 1 uknown, and several local species in my tanks with no problems...of the plants, frogs, lizards, newts do fine


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I'm sorry, I meant MY plants it would be toxic to. I have carnivorous plants. Spaghnum moss is the only kind you can use with them. Most people use spaghnum moss with their darts, too, which is why my plants and frogs go so well together. I built the terrarium originally for the plants and then looked at it and thought it looked like the perfect set up for some frogs.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Tadpole,

You may want to use the search function with the keyword 'moss' to pull up a fair number of posts that have discussed moss on the board in the past. You will find a pretty wide diversity of opinions on the subject so it's good to have that as background.

Most people find that terrestial moss that is collected from temperate zones in North America does not thrive long term in our vivariums, presumably because it normally experiences dormant periods during the cool months. Khamul1of9's experience to the contrary, while not unique, is interesting but given how he describes the method of propagation, he may have selected for an outgrowth that is more tolerant of viv conditions (my speculation here). I have seen a similar phenomenon with a couple of other temperate mosses so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

Most people have success with tropical mosses in their vivs. These mosses tend to require high light so they don't do well in overgrown vivs where less light is shining on them. Once again I have seen a few exceptions to this rule of thumb but it is pretty standard experience. 

The upside of live moss is that you can have a nice green carpet in your viv. It looks nice but it doesn't really recapitulate the normal habitat of dart frogs where they are living on the forest floor among leaf litter and such. Several downsides of live moss are 1) it can be an excellent way to introduce nasties such as snails, slugs, centipedes and probably quite a few things we can't see and 2) it doesn't always thrive leading to dead zones in the viv that you have to yank and replace. While it is possible to 'clean' moss prior to use, it probably isn't realistic to think that you can remove all harmful elements. Khamul1of9's explant method may be one of the best ways to go in producing clean moss but it takes a lot of patience and time!

Using sphagnum moss is another alternative. It holds moisture, keeps the dirt off your frogs and best of all, with enough light and time, tends to come to life giving you some additional green in your viv. I have personally moved away from using live moss in my vivs in preference to sphagnum/leaf litter but it is a personal choice as opposed to a recommendation.

Hope that this helps and you will probably find that if you have more detailed questions about moss, placing them in the Plant section of this board may give you some additional responses.

Good luck!

Bill


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2006)

Just to add to elmosfive,
I did not place the freshly collected moss into a frog tank, at the time I just wanted a terrarium, no animals. I took a very long time to get the growing conditions right, or to get a good growing strain. In fact it wasnt till at least 2 years later that the moss really started taking over. But I blame myself for not providing enough light and humidity.

Another possibility for my success could be serendipity. When I went back to find more moss like the one I described collecting, there was no more. I had been sure I had seen at least a square yard full of the stuff, but the by the time I returned, the following summer, there was nothing. I havent seen any moss of that quality in that park ever since. Could this have been a freak occurrance? That by some strange coincidence, someone's tropical moss escaped to grow in hot bright and humid NYC summer, only to be collect by me to be placed in a viv again? It seems like too much, but it could be possible. 
I've always heard that people complain about temperate moss being a slow grower, yet I cant say that about my strain. Or is that just the nature of sheet moss?

One last thing. I keep my stock pile of moss in one inch of water (as I said before) but what I forgot to mention is that it is in relative darkness (could it think this is winter??). Maybe when I take from there and place strands in a brightly lit area (the new tank) it thinks its summer again and grows vigorously???


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I've noticed that many of my local mosses (oklahoma) initially die off when i transplant them but after several weeks or months they start coming back and do fine from then on. Some mosses need to be transplanted in large pieces to do well right from the start, but expect some die off. Just dont count your mosses out until you've given them a couple months to prove you wrong...also spores in your moss of that species or other species may take hold eventually. One of the best mosses i've found here is very strange, it looks like a thin stalk with very tiny leaves, not the typical star, feather or hair like mosses. It loves the viv, but often dies only to come back strong a few weeks later, sometimes it doesnt die at all. 

One of the best mosses i have though is the unknown one i mentioned, it came as green carpet surrounding an orchid in a pot...and it is awsome, good medium shade of green, very fine carpet, grows great in viv conditions. Total luck i aquired it, always check lowes and home depot for another orchid like that with the moss but all they have is the ones in bark,and/or sheet moss and/or spagnum packed around them. I believe it was from Grubers (not sure thats the right spelling) need to contact them and see if i can get some more directly from them.

T and C's and black jungle tropical moss species have done well for me too. Just keep vitamin and calcium powder and tap water off all your mosses....they can do alot of dmg very quickly.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

you guys can grow sphagnum in your tanks? dang i can only grow the stuff where i dont need it. it grows wild in some nepenthes pots but not all. it mainly takes over my Utric pots. i wouldnt think most dart tanks would have enough light for keeping sphag alive long term and that dart tanks would be to warm year round. for moss in my tanks ive purchased some off ebay from the pacific northwest which is working good, i also take the moss growing on the surface of the peat in my sundew and butterwort pots. being that ive recieved these plants from growers across the US ive got about a half dozen different species that i can use. sphagnum for me has always been a very tempermental plant, its harder to keep alive than my neps and orchids.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Rattler, I have a compact flourecent light 135w replacement, uses 30w. My dried spaghnum has started coming back to life in my tanks, and my sundews that I have in there are growing like crazy and sparkling with "dew" all over. That seems to be a good light for me. Is that too high for the darts, though? Would there be something wrong with that light being used for darts? I'm confused.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

im using 4, 32 watt 4 foot flourecents for all my frog tanks and all my CP's and such. ive just found sphagnum(both new zealand and chilien) to be darn picky about where it grows. i can get it to grow in one pot where i dont want it and it wont grow in the next pot over where i want it.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Sphagnum moss is harder to grow than most of the forest mosses mainly because forest mosses tend to grow in shade to partial shade where sphagnum moss that I've seen in the wild is in full sun. That means their light needs are much much higher, and that light level would actually burn a good number of deep shade plants we like to use in our tanks (tho I could name a couple broms that would love it and flush red with that lighting).

I can't get sphagnum moss to grow in my tanks due to the fact that I don't use a hell of a lot of light. My frogs don't seem to mind, plus the ground is covered with leaf litter, there is no place for the java moss to grow!

PDFs are usually found in shaded forests, so that does seem like a lot of light for them, tho I know sunspots probibly are just as strong, but they are isolated spots, not the whole environment.

If you set up a tank right I'm sure you could have sphagnum moss growing, and broms like fireballs going bright red, with some of the shade plants growing in their shadows and what not. Again, its a matter of knowing your plants.


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## Gawd_oOo (Jan 24, 2006)

I may have a var. of sphagnum moss that will work better in the vivs. It grows naturaly in my yard. (I'm on a lake, and it grows in a almost bog area of the yard near the shoreline) It grows in full shade for all but the early morning hours of the day. I have moved some into pots with my CPs and it burns under full sun, or under my grow lights. It doesn't die, but all the tips turn black at first.

On a second note.

Hi, I'm new here. Rattler got me interested in PDFs with his pictures on a CP board. Thanx, Rat, like I wasn't spending enough on the plants..
Anyway, been reading up here, for the last few weeks. Working on a plan for a viv. hopefully I'll get one up and running in a couple months. I have a unused 10 gal. tank i'll start off with, but I am already desinging a 50-60 gal. (2 ft cube) that will come soon after.

Anyone in central wisconsin? I'll be looking for some frogs 3-6 months down the road.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I live in NW wisconsin, the spagnum I get at mom and dads will grow pretty good in your average dart/mantella tank for 9-10 months, after that it dies off.
Gawd_oOo,
Did you hear about the MDG (Midwest Dentrobate Group) meeting?
Feb. 11th at Nuggular's place in Hartland, west of Milwaukee...these meetings are highly recommended to anyone that can make it.


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## Gawd_oOo (Jan 24, 2006)

> Gawd_oOo,
> Did you hear about the MDG (Midwest Dentrobate Group) meeting?
> Feb. 11th at Nuggular's place in Hartland, west of Milwaukee...these meetings are highly recommended to anyone that can make it.


Hadn't heard, but unfortunatly I have a saturday class.


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