# Puffy Legged Tad



## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Feeding tads today, I found one of my Benedicta tads with puffy legs (see photo). Any ideas what caused this and any suggestions for dealing with it? At the moment, it seems to be eating and otherwise doing fine.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

It looks like the back end of the tad is a little swollen as well. Goodluck with him! I dont know what this could be


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

I have had tads with gas filled bodies not legs, I beleive was due to extreme temp. swings.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Is that gas? Looks like fluid. 
I wonder if it could be osmotic?


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

The tad is in a controlled environment. I house my tads in a 5gal tank with a faults bottom,glass top, heater set at 74 degrees,air bubbler for water movement,each one is placed in a 2 oz cup,fed every other day, 1/2 water change once a week


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

I have seen this same thing in a tinc tadpole at the same stage of development. The tad was not mine...so unfortunately, I don't know what the cause was or if it pulled through.

Good Luck.

Kevin


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

froggie too said:


> The tad is in a controlled environment. I house my tads in a 5gal tank with a faults bottom,glass top, heater set at 74 degrees,air bubbler for water movement,each one is placed in a 2 oz cup,fed every other day, 1/2 water change once a week


I wonder if it's gas bubble disease where you have too much total dissolved gas in the water for the tads. I've seen it with working in the aquarium business when people have constant problems with protein skimmers spitting out microbubbles and what not, it has to typically be a very large amount of dissolved gas. But in the tadpoles case, I know they dont need water movement so the water may be supersaturated with the gas to the tadpoles based on their natural expectations/needs. I would at least try turning off your bubbler.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

froggie too said:


> The tad is in a controlled environment. I house my tads in a 5gal tank with a faults bottom,glass top, heater set at 74 degrees,air bubbler for water movement,each one is placed in a 2 oz cup,fed every other day, 1/2 water change once a week


Also, I dont know what kind of water you're using for your tads or how you go about it but I know that when I make RO water, the temp is usually on the warm side even if I just have the cold water turned on so I have to let it sit and get to room temp before adding or changing tad water (i keep my tads at room temp). But you say youre using a heater on the tads, are you using a heater on the water you are changing out so that when you do the water change the temps dont swing?


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I will turn off the bubbler. The only reason I used a bubbler is to keep the water from getting stagnant and extra humidity.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

froggie too said:


> I will turn off the bubbler. The only reason I used a bubbler is to keep the water from getting stagnant and extra humidity.


I have not worked with thumbnail tads yet, no eggs yet (fingers crossed), its my understanding that they are more sensitive so they do require better water parameters, but as far as my cobalts go, I never do a water change on them. I'm confused about how you keep them, are you keeping them in the viv? and in separate containers?


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

froggie too said:


> I will turn off the bubbler. The only reason I used a bubbler is to keep the water from getting stagnant and extra humidity.


Oh nvm I see how you're keeping them. I thought about doing something similar for the temp since my house has been at 68 due to my inefficient heat unit and I noticed that the tads grow much slower at 68 degrees. But I had too many of them and not enough space. (before I lost them all due to my heating units breaker going bad while I was out of town!)


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Here is a pic of my tad tank. It is a 10gal, not a 5 gal


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It is not gas bubble disease... If it was the tadpole would have been floating with the front end depressed... 
There are a number of potential causes some of them more critical than others in no particular order and not a complete list 
1) ranavirus
2) bacterial infection
3) blockage of the lymphatic system (example worms) or improper development (failure of the kidneys to develop properly (vitamin A deficiency))
4) liver damage

I would strongly suggest swabbing the tadpole and the adults for ranavirus and having the PCR done on it. 

In the meantime, you can try keeping it in Amphibian Ringers solution to help it reduce the fluid load)

Some comments 

Ed


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I would just like to publicly thank Ed for all his help in response to my post! He led me in the right direction. I took "Puffyleg" (its new name) to a local vet who has shown interest in frogs. I she consulted with Allen at the San Diego Zoo Amphibian department, and with their help Puffyleg is doing much better as you can see in the attached photos. Allen's department does Chytrid fungus and Ranavirus testing. The vet and Allen did not believe it has either of those diseases, but we are going to do the testing just the same for my piece of mind. I did place the tad in Amphibian Ringers Solution for 2 hr twice daily as Ed suggested. You can see it is amazing how fast that Puffyleg is responding. Puffyleg just wants to thank all the folks on DB as without out them it would surely be a goner.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

That's great news, looking good! Did you say what you are using for water?
Distilled and RODI do not have enough trace minerals in it. Looks like you do not keep any plants or almond leaf in your tad cups. IMO, if the water is too pure it can cause problems, water will try to equalize through a permeable membrane from lower saline solution to a higher saline solution.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

ReefHaven,

Thanks for the input. Believe it or not, my local vet called me this afternoon to check on my tadpole (how's that for service) and discussed the same issue with me. She told me that the lack of minerals in the distilled water is a possible cause of my problem, for the reason you cited.

Originally, I had Java moss in the distilled water with the tadpole. When I started having a problem, I took the Java moss out. After talking to the vet today, I am slowly adding in spring water and next I will be addiing tadpole tea made with spring water and almond leaves.

Right now I am just trying to not shock the tadpole by adding too many things too quickly. Also, it is still getting its Amphibian Ringers baths.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Reef_Haven said:


> That's great news, looking good! Did you say what you are using for water?
> Distilled and RODI do not have enough trace minerals in it. Looks like you do not keep any plants or almond leaf in your tad cups. IMO, if the water is too pure it can cause problems, water will try to equalize through a permeable membrane from lower saline solution to a higher saline solution.


This tends to only be a problem if there is something impacting the ability of the frog/tadpole to osmoregulate...the reason is because even "spring" water is osmotically close to RO/DI when contrasted with body fluids so the argument is really caloric since the tadpole has to actively rescavenge calcium from the water.. and a healthy animal is simply going to burn a few more calories to accomplish it... . The difference between osmolarity that can be as low as 0 for high quality RO/DI to 29 mOsm/kg for high content mineral water as compared to 229 mOsm/kg for body fluids of amphibians..... 

Discussion behind this can be found at http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/70300-water-discussion.html 

Some comments 

Ed


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Just a thought: 'Red-leg' Syndrome in Amphibians | petMD


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pdfCrazy said:


> Just a thought: 'Red-leg' Syndrome in Amphibians | petMD


Typically septic amphibians are the ones that retain fluids and they tend to die surprisingly quickly.. sometimes within hours of the symptoms being noticed... There are some good shots of confirmed septic (aka "red leg") frogs in the Emergency Supportive Care thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/16433-emergency-supportive-care.html 

The tadpole doesn't fit the symptoms for "red leg"... (and there are more than 20 confirmed kinds of bacteria that cause "red leg"). 

Some comments 

Ed


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Update on Puffyleg:

It is still around (see photo).

My local vet, Dr. Kelly Gottschalk, is learning about dart frogs and has gone "above and beyond" in researching possible causes for the tad's condition. She has called ckecking on it and giving recommendations. At this point, we believe its problem was a combination of things:

1. It was in distilled water..
2. The water was overrun with tiny critters (protozoans?), some of which appeared to be attacking the tad. I could barely see them with reading glasses. I'm not sure how they got into the water, but I did put a sprig of java moss in the cup.
3. Its skin may have been irritated, making it easier for it to absorb water. 
4. Too many water changes.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow he looks so much better! I have an awesome local vet like that, too. It's such a relief having them around.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Up date on Puffylegs

It has taken a full week for it to get both arms, but here they are. All we can do now is keep our fingers crossed.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Beautiful. . Glad everything looks like its going to be ok!


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

*Puffylegs Debut​*
Puffylegs is out of the water and moving all around the tank with a tail . It seams to be a very healthy froglet. Not eating yet but still has a tail.

It finished his time as a tadpole in distilled water with Neutral Regulator (.25ml to 1 gal). Its job is to remove chlorine, chloramine and ammonia and adjust high or low ph to 7.0.

I also added Equilibrium (.75 ml to 1 gal) which restores and maintains mineral balance and GH to 0-0-23.


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