# what other frogs............



## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

will do well on springtails, fruit flys, termites, isopods.............. basically the same diet as the small-med dart frogs. my wife doesnt allow crickets in the house, not that i blaime her, when i worked with them years ago for feeding geckos they were noisy smelly things. so what other amphibs will do well on a similar diet to dart frogs?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pretty much anything with the same body/mouth size as a dart frog. 
For example bumble bee toads (Melanophryniscus), many of the small hylids (both native to the USA and non) such as H. leucophyllata, and small eluthrodactylids (such as Coquis).


Ed


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

thanks, im kinda isolated up here in north eastern Montana, not much for petshops or zoos or such. my main interest used to be snakes and im not terribly familiar with what small amphibian species are availible in the hobby. if i ever get a heated garage built i would be willing to work with larger species as i could keep the crickets away from our living area. i would like to work with red-eyed tree frogs and their kin down the road. the Melanophryniscus definatly look interesting.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2005)

Do you have any spring peepers (Psuedacris crucifer) in Montana? They are great! If not, you can always buy them from Carolina Biological supply. They sell them on the internet as eggs. But be carefull with them, they jump alot, and quickly!


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

nope but we have Pseudacris triseriata, Western Chorus frog, i dont think ive ever found any this late in the year though. generally i find them in the spring. thanks i had forgotten those guys.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

those must be just as cute though! Good luck.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

ive found that western chorus frogs and hylids and what not dont do so hot on fruit flies. theyre metabolism and appetite doesnt seem to be supported very well on really small food items. i have quite a few chorus frogs and they eat crickets 3/4 their size with no problems. there is a cool toad that lives here in the southwest (bufo retiformis) the sonoran green toad. there is also narrow mouthed toads as well that would do good on these food types. salamanders in the Batrachoceps genus do very well on fruit flies. good luck rattler. if your interrested in any of these guys, contact me rattler.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've kept Hyla squirella and Pseudacris crucifer for many years on a mainly ff diet. Only in the last couple of years have we switched over to crickets as a main food source. 

Ed


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

I actually kept my Pseudacris crucifers on a diet of small crickets. But when it was newly morphed it ate fruitflies, and little ity bitty mosquitos that people say are always infesting their vivs. Those spring peepers have a very fast metabolism, and they move fast to show it.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

well the Hylids and Pseudacris are easy enough to find but where would i find a source for the Melanophryniscus? im comming up empty on that one. or Batrachoceps for that matter.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I don't know if Seth Doty is still on the forum but he tends to have cb every year and in virtually all situations recommend buying cb over wc.... If I remember correctly the price he was asking was very reasonable. 

Ed


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

M. stelzneri's are incredibly difficult to find. I've been looking for years. As far as I know, they were only available once in NYC in the last couple of years, and even then, in tiny quantities. Good luck, they are great to have.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

Seth hasnt been active since May but i pmed him anyways. i found pics of his toads when i did a search. thanks for the help Ed.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

How did you find his pics of his toads??


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

i did a search for Melanophryniscus on yahoo and found this:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/14498.html?1082997205


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

i did a search for Melanophryniscus on yahoo and found this:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/14498.html?1082997205


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks for the pics. Great pics!! I actually pmed seth a week ago or so, and he told me that he wasnt sure if he would have any available this fall yet, but it was a possibility.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

thanks for the info, good to know he is still around if not terribly active on this forum.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

I actually contactedhim on Caudata.org


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There was a pretty good number imported about two years ago but none that I was aware of last year (but I wasn't really looking for them as I was busy setting up and maintaining some Atelopus spumarius). They didn't really make it into the pet stores but they were on kingsnake. 

Hopefully Seth breeds them this year. I felt sorry for him last time as demand was really low because of the recent imports. 
Ed


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

speaking of wild caught versus imported, who is breeding Mantellas? i see some CB golden tadpoles availible but nothing else.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

how did the Atelopus do for you? i saw a display of Atelopus zeteki at the St. Louis Zoo this past spring. really cool critters. that is two bad about Seths luck the last time. i really hope he has them again.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Well as near as I can tell I did pretty well getting them established as a lot of the other people that I heard got them lost all of them. I ended up with 4.1 out of 10 and got an extra male from corey leaving me with 5.1. 
I'm digging up info to try and breed them this fall but even now get a lot of calling and occasional amplexus.

I work with zeteki at work and they are cool. 

Ed


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## mack (May 17, 2005)

hey rattler,

if you want to try a longshot, call Zookeeper in austin tx. my friend david moellendorf who works there hooked me up with some Melanophryniscus about 4 years ago. i had to leave mine with a friend when i moved from texas, but they are still alive and well. they never bred for us, but i'm not sure of the sex ratio i had and i seem to remember having read since that a cold period is important for breeding.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

Ed, are Atelopus zeteki availible to hobbiests at all? your referance to work makes me think your work at a zoo or something similar. are they more common than the south american species? i realize they are endangered but are any hobbiests working with them?

Mack i may try that after i get back from my Canada trip later this month, can you PM me any contact info you have?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I do work at a Zoo (Philadelphia) and zeteki is not available to any nonAZA institution due to the stipulations placed on the imports by Panama. 

Ed


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

ok just thought i would ask, never heard of them out side of the zoo setting but like i said, my past specialty was snakes, not amphibs so im quite in the dark about alot of this yet. my wife has pushed me into dart frogs since i have a green thumb and she wanted "purple froggies". wasnt a terrible hard push as ive always been into herps. she also pushed me into orchids 4 years ago which lead o my opsession with carnivorous plants. thanks for the info, i sure appreciate it.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2005)

I figured a few pics were in order. These are from the St. Loius Zoo i believe. I got the pics from the web, though I dont remember when or were. Enjoy, they are spectacular aren't they!

I believe this is the enclosure they are kept in.














































And here are the M. stelzneri everyone seems to want this year










And in case you are curious about Pseudacris crucifer here is one.










Hope you enjoyed


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

thanks for the pics, and yep i saw those Atelopus zeteki when i was in St. Louis the first weekend in May. very cool zoo, i loved the penquin house. if you ever get a chance i really like the zoo in Calgary Alberta also. their creatures of the night exhibit was awesome


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## mack (May 17, 2005)

hey rattler_mt,

i don't have contact info besides calling 1411 for Zookeeper in austin, tx. i know he was still working there a couple of months ago. if that doesn't work i'll track down his brother and get the number for you. and did you actually find any "purple froggies" for your wife?


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

nope, what she saw is one of the purplish tint azureus in an ad in a reptiles mag. stadard azureus have apparently saisfied her.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

*Mantellas!*

Rattler-
Try mantellas! They are just as endangered as many darts and probably have an even bleaker future, given the situation in Madagascar. There are a few breeders that occasionally offer frogs. Otherwise there is a large number of WC available to start your own bloodline.
Rich


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

ive been thinking about them. i really like the painteds. i may do that yet.


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