# I don't have frogs, but do have a vivarium to share~



## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't have dart frogs, but I build a vivarium/terrarium from things I learned from visiting this site.. I hope its ok! I am not quite done with set-up, but I thought I share it. 
To the members, and administrator/moderator of this forum: I am sorry if this is not ok(since I don't have dart frogs), you can remove this thread. Thanks!


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Welcome Aboard

a Vivarium Construction is a Vivarium Construction

The Forum is for Sharing of Information and Ideas. Many of Us dream of doing this type of Vivarium

Many Posters post on Multiple Construction Forums for different types of animals

Please give us more details... like

What type of Liner did you use to cover the Wall?
Are you gonna do any Drains?
Do you plan on a Fogger/Mister system?
Where does the Vent go?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

Whew, thanks. I didn't go into details on the vivarium because I wasn't sure if it was okay to post without owning dart frogs. so here is materials I've used:

-Lining: I used 3mil pond liner- I think its the thinnest of its kind. 
-No drains: since I am not keeping dart frogs, I figured I won't be doing any heavy misting in the enclosure. Instead, I will put the egg-crate on the bottom, and add layer of hydroton for drainage. My misting will go off for 10-20 sec every few hours. For the substrate, I will be using sand/cocofibre.
- I got Pro-mist misting system, 3 misting heads. But I am get basic Mistking pump set in couple weeks as I am planning on building smaller enclosure. I am also going to get two of his Seconds timer...
- Vent is on the wall. I used the Through-wall fan, with built-in variable speed control, which is on the opposite wall- this is easy access in case they need to be replaced.. I covered up the vent(on enclosure side) using coco-bark(with lots of holes drilled).
- I used TiteBondIII to make cocofibre paste to cover the greatstuff foam.
- Lighting: from AH supply, I have two 55W in there now. I do have another two 55W set that I haven't put in, not sure if that is needed. The side this tank sits on, gets a lot of sun..


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## Energy (Jul 17, 2009)

This looks like an interesting build. Keep the info coming. So far the construction technique is very well done. 

What kind of animals are you going to put in it? 

Is there going to be a water section?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

Energy said:


> This looks like an interesting build. Keep the info coming. So far the construction technique is very well done.
> 
> What kind of animals are you going to put in it?
> 
> Is there going to be a water section?


 hi, thanks.. I am totally a beginner at building anything, and I nixed the water feature idea all together. anything that had to do with plumbing(water leakage, water-proofing). since I practiced on the 1st build, second tank will probably have water-future... It does sound nicer with waterfall. 

The wood is ghostwood. I actually put bunch of pieces together to make a tree.

oh, Im going to keep land hermit crabs in the tank.. please don't laugh.... too hard.


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## wimvanvelzen (Nov 1, 2008)

Nothing to laugh about! Very interesting creatures. Have you got already any in another tank?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

wimvanvelzen said:


> Nothing to laugh about! Very interesting creatures. Have you got already any in another tank?


 thanks, they are indeed very cute, and adorable! its another smaller enclosure, in the living room. Its sorta like a built in cabinet space, but its deep(about 20.5" deepx 35" highx 27" wide?). I think i am going to do similar type(with sliding door type, but with waterfall, but no land hermit crabs).
I still need to figure out the waterproofing part, and waterfall feature, I dont know how you can make sure there is no debri going back into the pump.


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## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

You may want to rethink the lack of a drain. After a month you might be surprised how much water goes through your substrate from the misters. I know I was w/ my 55g. After a few weeks I have about an inch of water in my false floor (~3-4gallons). This is with misting every 4 hours for 15 sec.


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

chinoanoah said:


> You may want to rethink the lack of a drain. After a month you might be surprised how much water goes through your substrate from the misters. I know I was w/ my 55g. After a few weeks I have about an inch of water in my false floor (~3-4gallons). This is with misting every 4 hours for 15 sec.


 oh i see, is it just matter of drilling a hole on the bottom? I haven't done anything for the bottom part, and still has a room for change in a plan. the bottom is marble, and pretty soft to drill a hole(which I ready did for water tubing that goes to reservoir that sits inside the drawers). I'm doing search on this forum for instruction now


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## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

curious_kitty said:


> oh i see, is it just matter of drilling a hole on the bottom? I haven't done anything for the bottom part, and still has a room for change in a plan. the bottom is marble, and pretty soft to drill a hole(which I ready did for water tubing that goes to reservoir that sits inside the drawers). I'm doing search on this forum for instruction now


There is an infinite way of doing this. I just siphon out water with an aquarium airline tube (meaning, I dont have any drains drilled out)

However I think a more professional approach would be to install permanent drains (drill, set up, and done)

Here is a link I was recently looking at about drains
Canadart.org • View topic - What would you do?

Search on here about drains, you'll find a myriad of possibilities.


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

uh oh. my head is spinning already. I think I already have what it seems like the 'bulkheads'. but they are part of the misting head nozzles. i need to order the mistking pump set with sec timer anyhow.. so maybe I will go ahead and few bulkheads when I do. hmmmm I didnt know misting system put out so much water


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## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

curious_kitty said:


> uh oh. my head is spinning already. I think I already have what it seems like the 'bulkheads'. but they are part of the misting head nozzles. i need to order the mistking pump set with sec timer anyhow.. so maybe I will go ahead and few bulkheads when I do. hmmmm I didnt know misting system put out so much water


Well I have 5 nozzles in my 55g... running for 6 x 15 seconds a day = 1.5 minutes a day...

5 nozzles for 1.5 minutes a day = 4 gallons a month.

So with my schedule 15sec/every 4 hours, *one* nozzle puts out ~ 1 gallon a month?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

I will have about 5 nozzles when I am done. there is NO WAY, though, that I will let that much water fall into my bottom of the tank- my crabs molt inside the substrate, and they might drawn. I will have to cut the misting time/frequency by half, and will have to drain every week. I think this plumbing part is bit confusing, can I get away with drilling a half inch hold, with some sort of valve stopper? and I will just hand drain it every week.  the thing is, this enclosure is in the dining room, and anything unsightly needs to be hidden away in the drawer below. I managed to get a rectangular water reservoir that fits nicely inside the drawer, but I doubt I can find a bucket that will fit in there. I think I can fit a drainage tubing with valve in there


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh this is great!! Thanks so much for posting it.

For drainage, just grab some tubing (I got a roll of tubing from Lowe's, for just a couple bucks), stick one end down to the bottom and the other end out of the enclosure somewhere. You could probably find a way to conceal it until it's needed.

I seriously love your build, and, you've given me a great idea for my next tank. I have one of those gigantic holes in my living room, for some sort of gigantic TV I guess, that I don't use. 

eta: Just saw this, and I say 'probably' though I'd wait for someone who knows what they are talking about to answer


> can I get away with drilling a half inch hold, with some sort of valve stopper?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

thank you! I didn't think people would like the idea of putting anything in the vivarium besides darts. This was an area where it was sorta awkward to put anything because of the small window(doesn't open). 
















I am going to plant lots of dandelions, and grasses on that corner next to small window.

















































sorry for putting pictures out of order. I have lots of pictures, but haven't posted on this forum because I didn't know if you could if you don't have darts. 
I have lots of ferns that i bought, but i am still trying to dry the cocofibre paste( i used about 3.4 gallons of TiteBond III glue). I still need to brush on some more after that. Broms are all Neos and haven't been permanently placed in it yet. I was just playing around with it. seems like I could still use lots of more plants.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

What will you do to seal the bottom of the tank around the glass doors?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

I am going to make a box out of glass panels like this,








crabs molt in the substrate, so it needs to be deep enough. the depth would be around 8-9 inches of sand.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Aaah, I see. Excellent. I love how that little window is allowing light into the back of the enclosure. It's going to be beautiful.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Would you mind posting a pic of your other tank? We love pics


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

what do you mean by other tank? you mean that cabinet opening space in the living room??? lol I don't have the picture of that space.. its being used as a storage! OR, you mean the hermit crab tank? there is nothing in there except for sand and bunch of crabs . I am trying to figure out how I am going to drill a large hole in the marble. I wonder if you can use a drill bits on it????!

where do people here buy their spike mosses(selaginella) from? I cannot seem to locate any places thatI can buy online.. my local HD was out of them.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yea I meant the one with sand and crabs.


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## Energy (Jul 17, 2009)

A build is a build no matter -if it's missing PDF's. This will be the most awesome hermit crab tank ever! I would figure out a drain or a way to easily siphon out water. The window is great. Simple way to get extra light - I only wish I could have one on my system. 

Vampire crabs might be cool in your tank.


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

keke. since you asked: here are some of my crabs that are hanging out now! Es are my favorite! purple one is viola


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for the pics! Those are incredible! I kept hermit crabs waaay back when. They are great pets.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Too drill into marble is rather quite easy. Keep water flowing on the top the WHOLE time. Just use a drill that is plugged into the wall because other wise you wont have enough "umph" to stop it from cracking. Other then that just go slow and mark your area out. ^^


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

Very nice setup! I am excited to see how this one ends up.


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

thank you! Thanks to this forum.; OOh, in case anyone was wondering where I got my ghostwood branches, I ordered it from save-on-crafts place. they have the cheapest and biggest ones one can get. they are based out in cali, but shipping was only 10 to eastcoast for 5 pieces. 
Natural Ghostwood Branches Sanded 16- 22" $16.99
Natural Sanded Ghostwood Branches (10-14" tall) $9.99 each
Natural Ghostwood (looks like driftwood) 12" Sanded Branch $4.49 each 
I ordered bunch of these, and put together a tree. 
ones I got were these.
















oh and I wanted to put more of my other crab tank that I am using to house 40+ crabs. Currently, I've got 40g, 55g, 30g, and two 10g. SO many tanks, and this is why I built one large one.


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## Nightstalker (Mar 30, 2010)

Really nice work. I like all the planting spots that you have set already. Nice design and very creative. Aside from ferns, what other plants are going in there?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

Nightstalker said:


> Really nice work. I like all the planting spots that you have set already. Nice design and very creative. Aside from ferns, what other plants are going in there?



thanks!~! since my pinchy friends like to nibble on the plants, I have to be very careful about not putting any plants(although very nice and pretty) that are known to be toxic  I know brom are safe, so are air plants. I have lots of different fern species(but limited to few varieties not known for toxicity, two spieces of rabbitfoot ferns, three different maiden hair ferns, resurrection ferns, and looking for places to get some spikemosses, pileas, and baby tears plant).
I think figuring out how to put drainage hole is harder than making the tat all together for me. I am still thinking about whether to drill a hole in the back or the front of the tank !!- prob the front part of it.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Have you checked out the sponsors on this forum for plants? I've purchased from several of them and have no complaints.

Sponsor Classifieds - Dendroboard


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

sucks. seems like I missed out on Black Jungle's 20% off on their live plants!!! arghhh


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Since you will be building a front you could figure out away to put a drain in it and not actually drill the Marble. Then you could drain manually if needed


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Like jpstod said, you can put a bulkhead in the front glass for drainage when needed. Using black fixtures should make this less unsightly.


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## weta (Mar 2, 2008)

WOW! This is shaping up to be the best looking crabitat on the net.
I really like the natural light coming in from the side.


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

I think I might be able to order a glass front(to hold the substrate), with a hole drilled in so I don't break it doing it myself. also, the bottom will have to be slightly sloped so that water can collect on one side. If I have a bulkhead in the front, I will have to make a cabinet face on the bottom portion of the enclosure to hide the bulkhead drain.. or, I can drill a hole on the marble on the back side of it, slope it on the back, and water will drain into a drawer where a container will sit in to collect as water comes in. I will try to figure out a way to put drain hole, and update on it over the weekend!! *crossing fingers* I checked that the additional Titebond layer I put on was dry this morning.. so as soon as I figure out how to place a drainage, I will start planting. sorry to bug you folks with this problem- being a rookie at this, i never thought it would be that much water on the bottom layer from misting.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Your not bothering anyone. That is the purpose of the board. There is never just 1 way of doing things and once in awhile a Newbie will teach the old hands something. New stuff and Ideas keep popping up all the time.

Just keep us updated


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## Rski (Jan 25, 2010)

I think your "tree" is pretty interesting!


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

it was very odd looking pieces that arrived, and i trimmed a few, chopped up a few, and decided to put the tree upside down lol
I cant wait to get home so I can think about how I am going to drill a drain hole 
pink arrows indicate that they are separate pieces that were put together~


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## calvinyhob (Dec 18, 2007)

This is a sweet build, keep the pictures and info coming!!


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

*waiting for more plants to show up, and more peat pots*

Ok!~ so here is an update- not much at all though. I am going to do some drilling for the drainage over the weekend, and aside from that, I am adding more peat pots, or switching around the broms. I have about half gallon of Titebond left, and not sure if that would be enough to do the last minute touches. my guess is that I will need to order one more gallon, which brings up the total to 5 gallons to do the build. 
broms are all fixed into the location with gorilla glue, and I've been hand misting them so far. 
























I also stopped by HD today after work to get some peat pots, and was upset to find these: 








because I just ordered about $100 worth of these spkemosses online from three different vendors(along with some ferns, pileas, hoya, etc etc), for around $5-6 each and at HD it was $1.98.... ...
I didnt think plants would cost so much. Seems like most of online sources sell their plants very young/small and it will take forever to let them fill out.. or am I missing something? is there any place peeps around here order their plants from?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I am loving that build kitty. Its rather quite beautiful. How many hermit crabs total are you going to have? And also are you going to do a mix with like vampire crabs or just hermit crabs?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

VenomR00 said:


> I am loving that build kitty. Its rather quite beautiful. How many hermit crabs total are you going to have? And also are you going to do a mix with like vampire crabs or just hermit crabs?


thank you so much! I've never touched a drill in my life, and this one gave me lots of cuts and bruises.. This particular enclosure will house 40+ land hermit crabs that's been with me for about 6 months now. Though I love them to death, I would have to really wait and see how much of the plants that I put in they would manage to destroy......
I am not sure if they can be mixed in as this one doesn't have water feature. I did some search to look for vampire crabs to buy, but couldn't find a store that carries them.  I heard they are freshwater crabs that doesn't require salt water set up for them to breed.. that sounds awesome. I have extra 30g tank that I can set up just for them with water features.


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## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

Vampire Crabs - Brian's tropicals has them

Animals - Brian's Tropicals


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I really admire your courage and how you're just going for it. And it's turning out great!

Those vampire crabs are really cool. Now you guys have me thinking about them too. I remember a really pretty bright red crab from when I was in Costa Rica. They used to hang out in empty swimming pools. Just completely carpet the whole thing. I wonder what that was. 

Hmmm off to find out.

edit: nvm, I can't find it...


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

chinoanoah said:


> Vampire Crabs - Brian's tropicals has them
> 
> Animals - Brian's Tropicals


wow, $30! not too bad, i thought they would be equivalent to those yellow froggies(ones that cost $45+??) I wonder if anyone has a nice care guide for those freshwater crabs?



frogface said:


> I really admire your courage and how you're just going for it. And it's turning out great!
> 
> Those vampire crabs are really cool. Now you guys have me thinking about them too. I remember a really pretty bright red crab from when I was in Costa Rica. They used to hang out in empty swimming pools. Just completely carpet the whole thing. I wonder what that was.
> 
> ...


 ohhh you must mean the Christmas Crab island or something like that?? it is an island with lots of red colored crabs swarming on it, right??? I think i heard something about them before. I have red color hermit crab(Coenobita Perlatus), and they are super active, and eat like a little piggies


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

these right??? I wonder if these are for sale?























they do look kindda big for terrarium


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yes that's it! Thanks! Yea I guess they are a little bigger than I remember. In my defense, it's been over 20 years


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't mean to be nosy, but, I seriously need an update to this tank.


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

i know...  I haven't updated because I somehow managed to kill more than half of plants I bought during bleach dipping- uh.... i shouldn't looked up the %concentration that you are supposed to use... I feel really really dumb. I didn't keep a track of how much bleach I used, but apparently it was enough to turn all of my plants white- my precious ferns from ebay which I've spent more than $100 along with several spikemoss- I think that seller was a bit overpriced. He also charged extra $1 for additional plant, on top of most of his plants being priced at $5.95-6.95. then I found cheaper place, but their plants were subpar(very very small cuttings)... I did order another round of plants(to replace the dead ones), and they will arrive next week.. more baby tears, and some ferns/mosses. Didn't know it was that easy to kill plants by bleach. uh....... but when I saw some of the crawlies on soil, there was NO way I'd put that into the tank without serious sterilizing... but I am really regretting it dearly now.
On the other hand, all my Broms are doing really well.
here is the picture of the tat, as you can see........ not too many plants/greenies.. most of them probably won't make it- I trimmed off dead white leaves, and it's been about a week.. no signs of life. 
















ohh, green things in the white bowl is dandelions that I grew from seeds- they are now a little over inch tall.








spikemoss you see there, (ones green), are cuttings, and they seem to be doing well. had I know that you can take cuttings to start the terrarium.... over 20 plants I've lost would've been still alive today. except.. you can't really take cuttings off of say maidenhair ferns(the small t'ny airy looking ones)


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yay! Thank you! It's looking great. 

Sorry to hear about the plants. Whenever I bring a new plant into the house, I wash it down to the bare roots. Sometimes with just bleach and water. Sometimes, I wash plants with rubbing alcohol and dish soap (the liquid in a bottle kind). This will get rid of most of the crawly stuff. The dish soap softens their exoskeleton and the alcohol does them in, from what I understand. Maybe try that if the bleach isn't working for you.

I've been known to forget the plants and leave them soaking overnight with no ill effects. 

Just be sure to rinse it off well.


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

wished I had known about downy detergent method- I've got lots of it, and also lots of rubbing alcohol! well, my new batch of plants will go through that(at least with ferns), and other vines, I will stick with cuttings. those crawlies were really scary looking though
here is closer up shot at my plants- including some dying ones from bleach.
























http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4604990129_091fbe2dd3_o.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4604990185_688e15a1c3_o.jpg
















and lastly, my dandelions!


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Sorry about the plants! That really sucks. Looking better all the time. What are the dandelions for? A salad?


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## curious_kitty (Mar 28, 2010)

keke. I do like dandelions- for its greens, but those baby dandelions will be planted inside the tank once they get about 3-4 inches. my hermit crabs munch on them all the time  they do look yummy, and wished I had a real garden out back to plant them for me too.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

I didn't know that hermit crabs liked to eat them! 

Yeah, I can't wait to move into a house again so I can have a garden and some chickens!


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