# How many bugs?



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hey guys, so was just wondering how many different kinds of bugs (for your frogs) do you have? I only have 1 culture of springtails (besides my ff's) I was just wondering what all you guys keep and how much. I am wanted to get more bugs to, so if you do have extras for sale and stuff, pm me.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I've got a few different kinds of springs and some isos. Chris, remind me when it warms up and I'll send you some.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks  I'll try and remember lol. So just curious, what's the purpose of having different kinds of springtails and stuff? I have 1 type of springtails, but I have no clue what kind they are lol. Also this is going to sound noobish, but what exactly are Isopods? Lol


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## Xan Stepp (Aug 17, 2009)

I have three cultures of springtails, cultures of hydei and melanogaster, flour beetles, bean beetles, crickets, roaches, and I've been experimenting with hatching house flies. But I only feed my darts ff, springs, bean and flour beetles, and the tiniest crickets. The rest go to my tree frogs.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Isopods are roly polys or pill bugs or whatever. You have them in your garden! The ones I have are small though; Dwarf White. There are larger ones too, such as Orange and Tan. I had some Tan but they were in a culture with another bug and got run out. The larger ones tend to stay in the substrate and the babies come up to be snacks for the frogs. Once in a while a large Tan isopod will come up and freak out my Lorenzos. 

The reason for a variety of bugs is, well, to give the frogs a variety of bugs to eat.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Ohhhh okay thanks for the info about them, so will the frogs eat the larger isopodes to? Or just the babies? I really want to start culturing more bugs for a bigger variety, and a fall back for if I ever had a ff crash or something. How do you culture isopodes? I know how to for springtails, cuz I do that now.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Isopods are easy. Seems like they'll live in just about anything. Here are a few of the ways I have them set up:

Clay mixed with coco fiber
Paper rabbit bedding
Coco fiber with peat
Coco fiber with crunched up sphagnum
Bark with moss and leaves
Dirt

On top, I throw in some pieces of corrugated cardboard. They also like those peat pots for seedlings. I tear some of those into pieces and toss them in. 

They have gills and like it damp. I feed them fish flakes, potatoes, cucumbers, left over salad stuff. 

They take very little work 

ETA: The Dwarf White are small enough to be eaten by my pumilios. The Tan ones in my Lorenzo tank are too big for them but probably good for a larger tinc or maybe teribillis. Not sure as I don't have any of those frogs.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh okay, I use like coco husk stuff for springs, I'm sure that will work for the isopodes as well. I feed my springs like pieces of mushrooms, it works VERY well. Would that be good for isopodes for food? How many different kinds of springs and isopodes should I have? How can I tell what springs I have right now?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Isopods probably like mushrooms. I don't know because when I have extra mushrooms, I feed them to my springs, lol.

The typical springs purchased from vendors are Temperate and Tropical. If you didn't specify when you purchased, you probably got Temperate. The Tropical seem to be just a little bit larger. Other than that, I haven't really noticed a difference. 

Maybe one of our bug people will chime in.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Alright cool, and how big of containers do you keep them in? How much would you suggest be getting of each? Like how many different kinds of sprigs and ispodes?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I general I seed every new tank with dwarf white isopods and springtails. Fungus knats just show up, and then I feed ff's so thats at least 4 that are common in my tanks, not to mention various mites which can also be a good food source, and whatever other random bug finds its way into the tank.

Really its just about giving them variety and having something for them to munch on between feedings. Re-seeding at least a couple times a year is a good idea. Also you can buy phoenix worms, very small meal worms and pin head crickets to supplement your frogs with every so often. Doing all this will likely help to keep them fat and healthy and may also improve breeding and tadpole/froglet mortality rates (meaning more live longer).


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

For me, I want as many different kinds as I can find! 

Some people have purple springs and black springs. Lots of different things out there. Just keep your eyes open for people selling those. I have Temperate and Tropical. I also have a culture I got from someone that appears to have 2 or 3 different kinds in it. And another culture of larger, bulbous looking springs that are tan in color. Don't know what they are. 

I only have Dwarf White isopods at the moment. They are making a come back after a mite infestation.

I keep all of my cultures in shoebox sized containers.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks for the info Dave. Yeah like you guys might know, I'm building a lot of new zoomed tanks. And I already am seeding my first one with springtails, and I am going to want to seed it with a few more different kinds of bugs.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Thanks for the info Dave. Yeah like you guys might know, I'm building a lot of new zoomed tanks. And I already am seeding my first one with springtails, and I am going to want to seed it with a few more different kinds of bugs.


I would definitely suggest adding in some dwarf white isopods....they tend to hide well, so if there is good cover in the tank it is hard for the frogs to annihilate them all, which means re-seeding doesn't have to occur often and there is always at least a small steady stream of an alternative feeder insect. Leaf litter, partially buried rocks and drift wood will all provide places for the insects to hide/eat/breed and areas for the frogs to stake out and hunt around, so try to include some areas like that in your vivs, and you'll get more mileage out of your seeding efforts.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah that's what u was thinking of doing Dave. I have leaf litter in all my vivs now, and in my new one I'm seeding now I have some leaf litter and wood for the isopodes to hide and breed to. Where could I get some?


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

I've been thinking of increasing the quality/quantity of food and feeders for my frogs too after seeing how big the wild caught frogs were that came in this year. Hey Chris and Dave I've got tropical springs. If either of you have or get more variety of feeders let me know cause I'd like to get some too.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I'd check with the sponsors and in the classifieds here or on dartfrogz. I have some but I need to dig them out of my tanks and start a new culture. I was lazy and let the last one fail since I didn't have many frogs, so It might be awhile before I can supply some to anyone. 

Will do Quaz, I think I'll probably pick up some new cultures and maybe increase the variety this spring when weather is good for shipping since my collection is growing again. I think my seeder spring-tail culture is still going, and I know I can dig some white isos out of tanks to start a new one of those so that will hold me for awhile at least.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I have no clue what kind of springs I have. I got them from Brice. I do want to get maybe another type of springtail, and 1 maybe 2 types of isopodes.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Oh okay, I use like coco husk stuff for springs, I'm sure that will work for the isopodes as well. I feed my springs like pieces of mushrooms, it works VERY well. Would that be good for isopodes for food? How many different kinds of springs and isopodes should I have? How can I tell what springs I have right now?


I'm working with Dwarf White Isopods and Spanish Orange (or Giant Orange). I found myself with more ABG mix than I knew what to do with so I mixed in a bunch of Oak leaves and am culturing them in there. They are loving life! I have been experimenting with more than a few foods. I tried baby oatmeal and Baby Rice Cereal. While the loved it, the foods brought mites into the cultures. I've considered vacuum packing them and boiling the whole vacuum pack to sterilize it and kill any mite eggs. 
They did eat mushrooms but didn't go nuts over them. I tried cucumber as I have seen many people say that Isos love them. They do love them but my kids love ice cream...doesn't mean I'm going to raise em on ice cream! I only say this because I am worried about the nutritional value of cucumber...It's actually very low. I am now using mostly yellow banana squash (also sometimes called Crookneck squash). Much higher in nutrition and they do LOVE their squash! I have also found that they eat their own dead so I am thinking a protein would be in order. In referencing this thread, http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/46452-how-i-culture-woodlice-isopods.html , I am going to start trying adding some very high quality dog food. In addition, I ask my wife to save some peelings, or a chunk, of whatever fresh veggie she may be cooking with. Carrots, zucchini, eggplant, and pumpkin have all found their way in there. They seemed to especially like the pumpkin, which is a squash, so I'm thinking any type of squash may be appreciated.
Doug


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Cool, thats for the info Doug. I'll keep all that in mind.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Im working with 4 different springs (soon to be 5), and melanogastor and hydei.

Im hoping to start breeding some isopods, bean beetles, flour beetles, termites, and crickets. so let me know if you have any of those!!!


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

Man, I'm scared of flour beetles. Get an infestation in your pantry and you won't want to see another one of those things ever! Even though if you do have a culture in sealed tupperware or glass it's not too bad. They're easy to culture but the frogs only like the larvae. I had some cultures but just let the age out and die off. 

Hey, does anyone know if it's safe to use rolly polly's from the yard? if you ever find a female with young under her belly it can be a nice little dinner for a frog. Also I figure that larger frogs like terribs will take adults.

Who's the best vender right now for variety in feeders? It seems that so many of the euro froggers feed all kinds of different foods.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Quaz said:


> Man, I'm scared of flour beetles. Get an infestation in your pantry and you won't want to see another one of those things ever! Even though if you do have a culture in sealed tupperware or glass it's not too bad. They're easy to culture but the frogs only like the larvae. I had some cultures but just let the age out and die off.
> 
> Hey, does anyone know if it's safe to use rolly polly's from the yard? if you ever find a female with young under her belly it can be a nice little dinner for a frog. Also I figure that larger frogs like terribs will take adults.
> 
> Who's the best vender right now for variety in feeders? It seems that so many of the euro froggers feed all kinds of different foods.


I've used rolly pollies from the yard....the frogs won't touch the adults probably, but I think they ate the babies when they found them. As long as you collect them from somewhere without pesticides they should be about as safe as anything else. There is always the chance something could come in on them though, a parasite, virus, fungus or bacteria. But same goes for wild fungus knats and they find their way into vivs all the time as do spiders and whatnot so it probably isn't much of a risk increase to add some rolly pollies.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

While rolly pollies from the yard are "edible", keep in mind that they generally breed MUCH slower than the ones generally used in the hobby, like Dwarf whites, giant orange, dwarf gray, and striped. As such, you would still do well to acquire some other cultures as opportunity presents itself.
Doug


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

5 types springtails
1 type of isopod
1 type of FF

the more variety the better, as we all know haha


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I just had a bunch of my spring cultures crash! No idea what happened. Opened the containers and no springs. 

Fortunately, I have several others in different set ups. So, I split some up to get my spring factory running again. Used new containers just in case there's something weird in the original ones. 

This is why I like to keep so many in different containers and in different media. Some in charcoal, some in coco fiber, some in bark and moss, etc. Same with my isos. Lots of variety in growing conditions, I think, helps.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I want to get a couple new cultures going this week. I need to go get some coco fiber, and more plastic little containers.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

frogface said:


> I just had a bunch of my spring cultures crash! No idea what happened. Opened the containers and no springs.


How old were they? Some species of Springtails exude a waste product that will gradually kill the colony as it builds up. I like to split mine at least once a year to circumvent that. (of course this means splitting the substrate, too, and not just the springs!)
Doug


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> How old were they? Some species of Springtails exude a waste product that will gradually kill the colony as it builds up. I like to split mine at least once a year to circumvent that. (of course this means splitting the substrate, too, and not just the springs!)
> Doug


Well, these cultures had been mixed and split and 're-cultured' a few times. I think I got the original springs about a year ago. A few weeks ago, I raided the cultures and removed about a billion springs (that's just an estimate) to give to rcteem to seed his new tanks and feed out. I wonder if that upset the balance of things. 

I've still got plenty. I just feel better having more than plenty around.


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

i've had the same thing happen to my springs (tropical from Joshs) They go from booming to dead then it seems they slowly regain thier numbers ??????????????


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

My frogs all get 3 types of ffs, black, pink, temprate, and tropical springs. They get orange, purple, dwarf white and tan isos. Oh, They also get termites, bean beatles and pea aphids as well.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

right now....

melanogaster
heydei
bean beetles
riceflour beetles
pink springs
white springs
"pearl springs" (wild collected variety that is new to the hobby as far as i know)

been talking about it forever, but i hope to soon place an order from the NL for multiple new sp. of isos, FFs, springs, and 'curly wing' m. domestica

james


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Are there really nutritional differences between springs? Until someone proves this to me (feel free to) I feed temperate springs, Giant Orange Woodlice, and Melos. I also seed the tank prior to adding frogs with a mixed microfauna culture. Mites always end up in my tanks and so do grindal worms, both of which I have seen my frogs eat.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Mitch said:


> Are there really nutritional differences between springs? Until someone proves this to me (feel free to) I feed temperate springs


I don't believe there is... So, why have multiple kinds of springs? Just pick the one that breeds the best, no? For us, it is the Blues and Pinks that breed the fastest.

Same as flies...I don't believe there is a difference in the nutritional value. We use wingless for froglets because they're easier pickings. Gliders for adults because they are fast and the frogs have to hunt them down.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

its more about size and ease of culture than nutritional value. theres also the security of having multiple varieties in case of some infestation of a CX etc.

james


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

james67 said:


> its more about size and ease of culture than nutritional value. theres also the security of having multiple varieties in case of some infestation of a CX etc.
> 
> james


Agreed James

So why do people culture Hydei? They're a royal PITA. hahaha


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## stkupprnces (Dec 2, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> I general I seed every new tank with dwarf white isopods and springtails. Fungus knats just show up, and then I feed ff's so thats at least 4 that are common in my tanks, not to mention various mites which can also be a good food source, and whatever other random bug finds its way into the tank.


I just purchased a mixed culture from a guy that includes dwarf isopods, springs, and mites. The guy seemed extremely knowlegeable and mentioned the mites were beneficial. However, I am hesitant to seed the tank because of the mites. From what I've read mites are dangerous to FF cultures and plants. He didnt mention what kind of mite they are. Should I assume its safe to use this culture in my tank? Thanks.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Mitch said:


> Are there really nutritional differences between springs? Until someone proves this to me (feel free to) I feed temperate springs...





frogfreak said:


> I don't believe there is... So, why have multiple kinds of springs? Just pick the one that breeds the best, no? For us, it is the Blues and Pinks that breed the fastest.
> 
> Same as flies...I don't believe there is a difference in the nutritional value. We use wingless for froglets because they're easier pickings. Gliders for adults because they are fast and the frogs have to hunt them down.


So what about just because your frogs like them? How about variety? You know, just because it tastes good! Something different to hunt. 
Think of it this way. Roast beef sandwich, comes from a cow. So does a nice juicy T-bone or a New York Strip Steak. Hamburger? Same animal. French Dip sandwich, still a cow. Order out for Chinese and get the Pepper Steak. Guess where that comes from. So if the meat in all of those is more or less the same nutrition, would YOU be happy with a McDonalds hamburger 3 times a day, 7 days a week, day in, day out forever? No fair getting different fixens on it! 
Personally, I want it all!! As such, I will strive to give it all to my thumbnails. Currently I have 2 types of Melonos, 5 different types of springtails, White dwarf Isopods, Gray Dwarf Isopods, and Spanish Giant Orange Isopods. Of course mites get in there for a snack. I am on a quest to try and get starters of everything a thumbnail might eat. Shipping is tough right now but if anybody in Colorado has any other good thumbnail feeders, please let me know. In fact, any suggestions for other thumbnail feeders would be welcomed even if you can't help me with them. PMs always welcome.
Doug


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

I am no expert But...

I suspect that since they eat different things they Would provide different nutrients.

Do Beef, Chicken, Pork, and Fish provide the exact same Nutrients to a Diet?

What about Vegetables? 
Do they provide exactly the Same Amount of Vitamins and Minerals in every serving?


That is why it is recommended that we eat different foods.


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