# Terribilis questions - crickets



## jungle_frog (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi, I'm new here...though not in the herp hobby, as i have 0.2.0 rachodactylus ciliatus, and hopefully a group of terribs in the upcoming months (not anytime soon).

As i've come to understand in my many months "ghost reading" dendroboard, FFs are a huge staple when feeding darts. I however can't really do the whole "fly thing", partly bc of 'rents and partly bc i'm scared of having an infestation if any get loose. 

I am allowed to have crickets though (go figure). This is where terribilis comes into play. It is to my understanding that only terribs and bicolors are large enough to be able to handle crickets; I am choosing the terribs bc i like their personality traits and colors a whole lot more than bicolors. My local Petsmart carries "small" crickets, which look to be 1/8 - 1/4 inches in size, which seems perfect for an adult terribilis. 

My question is, would a diet containing crickets over fruit flies be suitable for phyllobates terribilis? 

Of course, i would have the ever so popular spring tail and pill bug colonies in the viv and can add phoenix worms into the diet too, so it's not like it would be crickets 24/7.

Is there a problem with this at all?

Thanks!!!


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Ok so ff's are the staple.... the petsmart crickets are pretty big as cricket sizes go. when people feed crickets i think most are talking about very small pinhead crickets. you need to find out a better feeding situation than relying on petsmart (imo) or consider waiting ti'll your out of the rents house. if you are good at convincing them of things... let them know that the fruit flies are wingless and cannot fly. they can climb glass and you will need a full hood to keep up humidity in the first place. so not too many will get out. you can transfer flies into new cultures outside and quickly kill escapees as your feeding. its pretty hard to get an infestation. also... NO juvenile dart frogs that i know of will eat crickets. they need smaller food (one of the major reasons that this hobby is more ,lets say, exclusive). most people aren't willing to culture flies and realize that if they cant do that then they shouldn't jeopardize the quality of life for the animals by trying to get by with other foods. 

this is just my opinion on the subject but perhaps someone else will have more info.

james


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

crickets would need to be very small for most 'starter' terribilis...until they grow out. they can be fed exclusively though. 

Springtails are not eaten by terribilis/bicolor

bassleri, trivittatus and vittatus also take crickets. many others will take 'pinhead' crickets.

FF's are easy, fyi. Easier and less risky [re: escapes] then cricket IMO. 

S


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## jungle_frog (Sep 7, 2008)

Sorry if there was any confusion, but i was more geared toward "Can adult terribilis it crickets as a staple?". I knew juvie and froglet terribs might have a hard time eating anything but pinheads (cricket-wise).

Oh, and believe me, I know that FFs are MUCH easier to deal with than crickets...or so i've read.....multiple times. And i've been trying to convince them, but it isn't gunna work.

And for some reason my Petsmart is unlike the rest as far as cricket sizes go....their "smalls" aren't even 1/4 inch. More like 1/8 or maybe just a bit smaller. So would this size be ok for adult terribs (like i said, i should have made that clearer, sorry)?


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

sounds like you'll be fine then

they can take 1/4 or even up to 1/2 inch without much issue once grown

Best,

S


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## Drew (Nov 9, 2006)

Don't rely on petsmart always having what you need, because when you need it most you can bet they won't have it.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

I would say yes or even a little larger.

I buy pinheads as occasional treats. What my store is selling as pinheads are actually week olds with a few slightly larger mixed in. My sub-adults azureus and citronellas eat them with no problem, even the bigger ones.

But I only buy them as treats and diet variety. Crickets are expensive to buy and ff's are my staple food supply. You buy the original culture and supplies and just propagate your own. I think you really need to discuss this further with your parents (sorry, can't say 'rents because I am one and that used to irritate me when my son called me that  ).

IMO, crickets smell. FF's only smell when it's about time to throw out the culture. Crickets are noisy, ff's are silent.

Yes you do get escapees when you transfer them from one cup to another, but that problem can be relieved by making the transfer outside. Personally, since I live alone I just use my hand to smash the ones that get away from me (but then I have no one to answer to). I rarely have one escape from a tank that I'm aware of.

I actually have some terribilis on their way in a couple of days, so I'll probably need to deal with larger food for them in the future.

Good luck.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Ah see, my answer was too wordy and Shawn came back with your answer while I was still typing. 

I think you'll be fine.


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## jungle_frog (Sep 7, 2008)

1/2 inch...wow...never would have thought a frog would eat something 1/4th its size.

Oh, believe me, I know how much easier FFs are than crickets....they are MUCH easier than crickets. I've tried talking it over...multiple times. Either no flies or no frogs (which led me into the direction of terribilis).

And i usually buy crickets more crickets than I need, so sometimes 1 batch may even last up to a week and a half. And if Petsmart doesn't have crickets for some reason, I can always buy phoenix worms (loaded with calcium and are very small). Or I can simply go to another pet store. I'm not too worried about that.

It looks like i'm good then! I'll just buy older/adult frogs that can handle bigger prey items.

Thanks!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

The reason most people keep darts is BECAUSE of the ease of FF culturing and the ability to never have to deal with another cricket again.

I kept and bred many different Geckos and after discovering the ease of FF culturing....It will be very hard for me to ever go back to crickets. Most people even look for small geckos (Day Gekkos) and Chameleons that can take FF instead of crickets.

Crickets are much more $$$ and I'm assuming youre a Student living at home. Your frequent petsmart trips are going to suck provided they even have the small crickets in stock. Large frogs eat a lot.

Escaped crickets are a much bigger house problem than escaped FF. The crickets will grow and eat and then chirp. They will hang around for a long time, unlike FF. And no matter how hard you try, a few crickets will always make it out of the viv.

With the exception of Hydaei, most FF cultures have little to no smell at all. Crickets have much strongers odors and if you ever plan on culturing them....look out for THAT stink.

If you simply arent allowed to culture FF, I would reconsider keeping dart frogs.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Could you maybe keep cultures in a garage? At least for a back-up (& variety) food.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

<<<Could you maybe keep cultures in a garage? At least for a back-up (& variety) food>>>

You would need a heated garage for both FF and Crickets.....

Here's what I use For my Frogs:

1. Staple: 80 % Melanogaster, 20% Hydei
2. Backup / emergency / Variation: Springtails, Flour Beetles ( both amazingly easy to culture)
3. Multi-use: Springs for cleanup crew and neonate frogs

I'm working on isopods now....they should be easy as well.

I don't care if I EVER see another Cricket...or Crix...lol.....again. Uh, until I get to Fl and start breeding large Melleri Chameleons and Phelsumas again...oh well..


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> You would need a heated garage for both FF and Crickets.....


I guess that would kind of depend on where you lived. And you wouldn't really need to heat the entire garage for a few cups of ff's. If nothing else, just sitting them on top of a water heater, or something along those lines would work.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Buy or build a cabinet and heat it with light bulbs or if it is really cold a heat bulb. I might end up doing that myself to get my cultures out of the bathroom...lol


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Nubster said:


> Buy or build a cabinet and heat it with light bulbs or if it is really cold a heat bulb. I might end up doing that myself to get my cultures out of the bathroom...lol


That was one of the things I was thinking about, the cabinet the guy in the UK posted pictures of that he built for insect cultures.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I saw that, it was pretty nice. Should not be too hard to build a pretty big one for less than $100 and it would give you tons of room. Hardest thing would be regulating the temp.


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