# evolution of vert insert



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Back in December I built my first vert viv for some imis. I decided to build my own insert out of polycarbonate. I wanted as big a door as possible for maximum viewing, maximum access into the tank, and clear glass. I’ve been tweaking it with every new viv.

I started out with the typical door with a cut out vent at the top.










Next I added a fan for a little better circulation.










To increase the viewing area I then mounted the fan into the door at the top and did away with the vent cut out.










Finally, to give me a 100% viewing area, 100% access into the viv, and clear glass I mounted the fan on the top of the viv in the center directly above the front glass.


















You can’t even tell there’s a door on the viv.










Broms compliments of Antone. I tried to squeeze in a few more but they just wouldn't fit


----------



## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

wow, very cool! So... is the door in the front? where's the handle for opening?


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

spydrmn12285 said:


> wow, very cool! So... is the door in the front? where's the handle for opening?


Yes, the door is in the front. The door is the entire size of the opening.

No door handle, that would obstruct part of the view  When I open the latches on the two corners the door just automatically pops open a little bit.


----------



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

What kind of hinge are you using and how is it attached to the sideo of the tank? If you are no longer using a vent at the top of the door, why not just use glass?


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

sbreland said:


> What kind of hinge are you using and how is it attached to the sideo of the tank? If you are no longer using a vent at the top of the door, why not just use glass?


Here's my original post for the first vert insert I made.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22545&highlight=polycarbonate

Why use glass? It's heavier and it breaks. I have had absolutely no issues with the polycarbonate warping even the least little bit. I don't see any reason for changing to glass.


----------



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Biggest reasons I could see would be that it is much cheaper and easier to get (still can't find a good source for polycarb). I just think it would work better, but like you said if it ain't broke don't fix it.


----------



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

After reading the link to your other journal, it looks like the polycarb is available at HD and from what you said is pretty cheap. I thought you could only find it at specialty stores and it was pretty expensive, so I guess you learn something new everyday. Now I guess I'll just have to give it a try. Thanks!


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Yep, I think the polycarbonate is pretty much the same as what I would pay to have a piece of glass cut.

So far so good. But, if I do ever have ANY issues with warping I'd just switch to glass.


----------



## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Gary,
I was looking at your original post for your insert and forgot it was the old post and made a reply. Sorry about that. I will put the same reply here....



> Quote:
> That looks really neat.
> 
> I do have one qusetion though, will you use automated misting on these? if so what will stop the water/condensation running down the front glass/plexi inside the tank and out of the bottom.
> ...


----------



## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Also Gary, with the price of oil up does that have an affect on the price of the polycarbonate? It seams like it would be more costly than glass.


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Price of oil affects the price of everything else...
Because all plastics are petro based, that fact is even more true.
Though due to contracts, etc. you may not see an increase in the cost of plastics immediatly, certainly not as fast as the cost of gas goes up.
Very nice looking inserts!


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Steve,

There is a gap between the door and the piece of plexi on the inside at the bottom. I'd say it's about 1/16".

There's a tight seal with the door and the frame so no FF escapees. I don't have any problems either with FFs crawling inbetween that space of the front door and bottom piece of plexi and then jumping free when I open the door.

I don't have automated misting in these vivs. I don't get enough condensation on the plexi to be any kind of issue. But, I could see where it could be. Water running down the door would eventually drip out the bottom. But, that could be an easy fix. Even just a bead of silicone on the vert door on the inside at the same height as the top of the bottom piece of plexi would create a seal. It's just not a problem for me so I haven't really thought about it.

No big jump in the price of the polycarbonate. A 12" x 24" piece is still less then $10.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

You may want to mix you methods and use the "L" on the back to point the air at the front. I did this is a 29gal tank and cut the "L" to fan it across the front glass. It seems to work well.

I like your all glass fronts, very clean looking. Could you post more on the hinges?


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

kyle1745 said:


> You may want to mix you methods and use the "L" on the back to point the air at the front. I did this is a 29gal tank and cut the "L" to fan it across the front glass. It seems to work well.


Not quite sure what you're talking about here. On the viv door with the fan mounted into the door the fan is sucking air OUT of the tank. I put the "L" fitting like that so that it would hopefully draw air up the glass and not just suck out the air from the top of the viv.



kyle1745 said:


> I like your all glass fronts, very clean looking. Could you post more on the hinges?


This was REALLY simple. It's just the typical plastic hinge you see on the tops of aquarium tanks. It just so happens that it fits nicely over the inside lip of the frame of the viv.










You just have to notch the inside a little to miss the frame and get it to lay flush against the frame and to miss the little piece of plexi at the bottom.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Thanks, and looks like a good idea.

As for the L if you fans are in the upper top back, I have a L on the inside under the fan, which directs the air forward. I have then cut the end to help spread the air out a bit more.


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

OK, I got you now. My fans are all on the front part of the vivs.


----------



## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Gary, I have looked for these hinges in the pet stores and so far I can not find them without buying the whole lid, glass and all. Where do you get yours?


----------



## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

I found it.......

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/211915/product.web


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

dragonfrog said:


> Gary, I have looked for these hinges in the pet stores and so far I can not find them without buying the whole lid, glass and all. Where do you get yours?


The large nationally known type pet stores don't seem to carry it. I get mine from a mom & pop locally owned tropical fish store, 6' piece at a time. Saves on shipping 

Be a little careful, it comes made for 1/8" glass and 1/4" glass. You want it for 1/8".


----------



## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

I just used some of this material for the lower portions of 10g verts. this past week. Originally, the pieces were made from 3/32" glass, but I had trouble with them cracking every time I attached drainage bulkheads. I picked up some 1/8" polycarbonate from HD, along with the cutting tool, and fabricated replacements in no time. The cutting technique takes a little getting used to, but with the right setup, it works well enough. The material drills easily and cleanly as well.

The instructions that come with the material suggests silicon as the proper adhesive. I had some reservations about this (silicon never seems to work well with plastic), but went ahead and used it. Time will tell if this was prudent.

The only other possible concern I have with the polycarbonate is its flexibility. For the 10g. verticals, the lower portions were cut to approximately 9.5" x 5". Once installed, there is little to no flexing along the length of the pieces. However, for something larger like 20g. verts., with the lower portions approaching 12" in length, I wonder how much flexing would occur. Since I have to make a quick, temporary 20g. vert over the next few days, I will experiment with the material and see how well (or not) it performs in this situation.

Steven


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Tripod said:


> The only other possible concern I have with the polycarbonate is its flexibility. For the 10g. verticals, the lower portions were cut to approximately 9.5" x 5". Once installed, there is little to no flexing along the length of the pieces. However, for something larger like 20g. verts., with the lower portions approaching 12" in length, I wonder how much flexing would occur. Since I have to make a quick, temporary 20g. vert over the next few days, I will experiment with the material and see how well (or not) it performs in this situation.Steven


Steve, 

My door is nearly 24" and there is no problem with warping. Two of the vivs have been up & running now for nearly 6 months.


----------



## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Gary,

My concern isn't with possible warping, but with flexure associated with water, substrate, etc. pushing against the lower portion (bottom section) of the insert causing a bow or curve along the edge where the upper portion would attach via a hinge (door opening down configuration) or fit up against (side opening configuration). For small, 10g verts. this isn't a problem, but with larger vivs. the flexing might be pronounced enough to cause problems with fit, gaps, etc. I'll find out for sure in the next few days once I have constructed a 20g. vert. I'll be sure to pass along the results.

Steven


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

OK, I got you. No water features in my vivs so it's not a problem for me


----------



## fmfox (Mar 29, 2007)

Not having any bars obstructing the view is fantastic. Great looking vivs. But I'd be afraid that, because the door is so big, there's no way to prevent frogs from jumping out when you open it up.

martin


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Just found this thread via the pumilio talk...

One thing I want to mention about front opening tanks with fmfox's comment... the frogs are less likely to flip out with a front opening tanks (predators come from above), and if the frogs do freak a little bit, they are more likely to dive into the more heavily planted areas of the tank (which is why I put lots of plants in the back). Very few frogs will take a flying leap AT the thing that is disturbing them! Some species have the immediate reaction to go up - this is what caused a lot of problems with the use of top opening tanks - but this is not an issue with front opening tanks, since that escape route is blocked.

Gary - where did you get the swivel latches?

Another source for the living hinge.


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> Gary - where did you get the swivel latches?


Finally found them at Lowes. If Home Depot has them they are pretty well hidden because I can never find them there  

And, just as an aside, I've had no problems with frogs trying to jump out when I open the door. Even my bold imis which are usually down on the ground every morning in the front corner right where the door opens don't try to make a run, errrrrrr jump, for it. Even on the few occaision when they've been climbing the front door they just go along for the ride.


----------



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

ALSO, not even the slightest bit of warping yet


----------



## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ Same here. Four viv. doors and no warping. They do flex a bit, but that hasn't been a problem. 

*** One thing to note - I was concerned about using silicon to adhere the polycarbonate to other materials and the concern WAS justified. I used it to attach hinges to one door. A couple of weeks later the door was hanging by a thread. If the viv. had been bumped the door wood have completely detached and a couple of expensive frogs would have disappeared. I reattached the door with an adhesive for plastics, and it is holding great. DO NOT USE SILICON TO ATTACH TO POLYCARBONATE.

Steven


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Something like welbond work?


----------



## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

I have not used it, but it should work. I picked up another adhesive at HD after studying what they had in stock. I can't remember the name, but it reminds me of the old modeller's glue.


----------

