# Food Cultures (ANTS?)



## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

A lot of people out there recommend dropping a spring tail culture in a vivarium before the frogs arrive to maintain a small balance of food.

Has anybody ever thought about or actually put in a culture of ants? Queen and all? It seems like it might be a good idea - food for the frogs and they could clean the tank (extra insects, etc).

This is something I haven't seen anything about but thought perhaps it could work - drop a culture of ants found under a rock under a piece of cork bark or something and let them do their thing.

I think it would be really neat to make a vivarium as close to self sufficiet as possible (I know the frogs would still have to be fed every day)

What do you all think?


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

sounds like it may be a good idea, if the right species of ants are used. I know most of the American species excrete formic acid as a defensive deterrant. I did notice that my Mantella expectata really like the ants I fed them though. It may prove to be a bit difficult to keep them going, or possibly to keep them under control. Also, if they are too aggressive of a species, they may injure your frogs. Definitely study up on our native species though and see if you come across any that you think may work. Keep us updated,

ed parker


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

On another post:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9417

They were talking about a a species called Acrobat Ants (Crematogaster lineolata). I googled them and it seems like they are the normal small ants found pretty much everywhere.

Probably now isn't the time to find them.

I dunno - I'm still pretty new to this. I wouldn't want to start off with something potentially dangerous to my yet to be new frogs.

The other thing I think one would have to do is spray the outside of the tank with ant poison so they don't crawl out - maybe?


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

I wouldnt spray anything outside the tank. I wont even let others spray air deoderizers in the same room the tanks are in.
Maybe you can clean the sides of the tank so well that they will be too smooth for the ants to climb out of. And keep the plants away from the sides. 
What species of ants would not be a danger to your frogs if they share a home? Would it be better perhaps to have a separate ant farm and then just feed some at a time, like you would crickets and fruit flies??

Has anyone ever tried raising fruit flies in vivs using real fruit??


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

The thing is with FF is that the cultures have to be maintained in order to keep them flightless. So I don't think I'd want wild FF on the loose in my apartment.

I would think that Ants would be pretty much self sufficient and I wouldn't have to leave rotting pieces of fruit laying around.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2005)

lol, too true!!

But i think the ant farm thingy is a better idea than having a colony in your tank. Im not convinced that their are any species of ants that wont either eat or attack your frogs in defence. Then again, im not an expert on ants.


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

I have an ant culture, queen and all, that introduced itself to one of my empty frog tanks (fully planted, living in the cork bark). I removed the cork into a rubbermaid, which sits in another larger rubbermaid filled with water. This prevents the ants from dispersing through my house, which I frown upon.

I will get about 100 or so on a pringles lid with a few drops of honey on it, which can then be moved into the frog tank.

I would not recommend an ant colony in the tank, because if they do well enough, they can easily overwhelm by sheer numbers. When my ant colony was in the empty tank, I first noticed them marching in and out of another [occupied] frog tank by the hundreds... carrying off fruit flies.

These are tiny black sugar ants, the frogs scarf them up, but I wouldn't want a few thousand in a frog tank.

Josh


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

DO NOT SPRAY ANT POISON ON YOUR TANK, or in the same room for that matter. If anything, I have heard of people rubbing a smear of petroleum jelly I believe all the way around the upper portion of the tank. I still am not to keen on the idea of the culture inside the vivarium either. Once an ant colony gets going and doing really well, they will try to take in as much food as they can to feed their colony, and if their numbers are high enough, a dendrobate could become an easy target, especially with 100 + ants after it. I like the culture idea though, outside of a frog vivarium.

Ed Parker


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There is a paintable teflon that you can get to paint on the outside of the tank that will prevent ants and other insects from entering the tanks. 
See http://www.reptayls.com/images/bug-boundary-ad.jpg

Ed


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## xxll (Jul 12, 2004)

personally id be prity nervous about ants as a food source, especially a whole culture within the tank, an ant colony require alot of recourses, i dont think the average viv would support enough on its own, theyd probably start attacking your plants after awile, also ants are an incredible force and would destroy any frogs for food or security of the colony quite easily, also its been said that atleast 70% of what PDFs are eating in the wild are ants, thus this makes them the most likely source of there toxin, this my not pose to big of a problem if your keeping anything besides terribilis and bicolurs but if you have multi species tanks it could cause problems, 
when i was in costa rica a last week the environmental education center that i went with and i performed many experiments on ants and i have learned not to underestimate them!lol


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

I have a friend who is good friends with a herp vet. The herp vet did extensive testing on one of the brands of that white ant chalk (I'll find the name somewhere). He found out that it is almost completely made up of a chemical found in certain vegetables. We use it where I work, and it works great and is virtually harmless.

Jordan


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## mack (May 17, 2005)

hey check this out as a sustainable bug culture in your tank:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5237


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I say if you'd like to have a culture inside the tank, get Ghost ants. They colonies are relatively small, and they are soo small, I doubt they could harm, nor have reason toharm the frogs. They eat sweets so youd have to supply them with that.

Ryan


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2005)

JoshKaptur: Where did you get the colony? Or did it just show up one day? I think I'd like to try why you said about putting a colony in a contain inside a container - I think that would work really well. Do you think it's too late in the season to try that?


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2005)

*ant colony*

maybe you could buy one of those plastic formicariums that link up with narrow tubing and just have one line of tubing leading into your frogs tank so some ants made it in but never in huge numbers.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2005)

That's a really good idea! I could have the plastic tube go from the ants, dip under that water ,and then up through into the tank
might be cool.

I have to find out where to get ants....


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2005)

anybody know an easy way for me to get a colony of ants? I'm away it's illegal to ship queens over state lines. I live in PA. Or if you're out of state and you have any ideas you can e-mail me too - just click the e-mail button or sent it to [email protected]

It looks like ghost ants are the way to go as any sort of food source


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

the easiest way to collect an entire colony of ants (especially crematogaster) is to find a rocky area where they occur and flip rocks. you will want to bring an aspirator and search while the temps are low (in the 40's, low 50's) the ants are very sluggish and the entire colo0ny will be at the surface under the rock. you then suck them up with the aspirator. you will find that if you try this while the temps are high, the entire colony wont be under the rock and they will be quite feisty and a pain to catch. i have colected many colonies this way.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2005)

What kind of aspirator do you use? I'm not really sure what that means....


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

here ya go

http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomolo ... tm&uas.htm


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## guyelcamino (Jan 22, 2005)

*ants as food*

I have used small sugar ants to feed my frogs on occation. They are 1/8 or less in size and brown or black in color. I did notice one time there were about 6 uneaten ants marching across my glass tank side in a line following each other. This made me fell uneasy so I immediatly removed the uneaten ants. I do feel if you have to many in your tank they could overtake a frog. Have you ever seen them in you driveway ganging up on a large catipilar.
If you keep them cold they will go dormant so you can store them. They will also be lethargic when you first put a few in for you frogs to eat. 
You can collect them in your driveway, walkway, sidewalk or were ever you see there small mounds. I have used a microwaved piece of pepperoni to atracted them. Heating it up will increase the odor it gives off. One time I broke open a piece of wood in the winter and found small black ants dorment with frost on them. I bought this home in a coffe can, left it in the cold garage and removed a few for feeding as needed.


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