# peperomias are dying...need help. pics posted.



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

So I noticed my peperomias in the front was looking bad so I look at the other One and it is almost non existent.
They were fine until these bugs showed up in my viv again but the only way they can be at fault is if they are eating at the base of the plants.
People say they are springtails so if they are then it must be something with the conditions or something idk.
Seems like they are rotting.
I pulled the one in the front up out of the soil just in case it was getting to much and also to see if the bugs are feeding at the base of the plant.

Here is my conditions...
Substrate: ABG
Water: Distilled
Lighting: 2 26watt 6500k daylight bulbs
Temp: fluctuates between 75-80 degrees...never below 70.
Humidity I know is at the least is around 90% or more
There are currently no frogs in the tank.
I have an air circulation system 

They are both placed pretty much on the sides against the glass and I'm thinking maybe there is just too much moisture there however the peperomia in the last pic is in the same spot but just on the opposite side of the one that is pretty much non existent. Although the peperomia in the last pic is a different kind.

Here is some pics...maybe I just have them placed wrong :/
front one:









The one on the right side(red arrows):









Here is where they are placed:









This is a different kind of peperomia and it is doing great.


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

Are you allowing the plant leaves enough time to dry before turning out the lights after you mist?


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Didn't you say that they got vinegar on them? That is probably useful information for anyone trying to help you figure out what is going on.


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

fieldnstream said:


> Didn't you say that they got vinegar on them? That is probably useful information for anyone trying to help you figure out what is going on.





I agree do not see that in the post


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

marylanddartfrog said:


> Are you allowing the plant leaves enough time to dry before turning out the lights after you mist?


I only mist like once or twice a day and in most vivs nothing ever gets to dry completely. Unless it is up top like my tillandsias.
My viv stays pretty moist.





fieldnstream said:


> Didn't you say that they got vinegar on them? That is probably useful information for anyone trying to help you figure out what is going on.


nah the peperomia on the right was no where near the vinegar.
I thought that was the cause but I was wrong 


I'm thinking it might possibly be too moist up against the glass.
I pulled them up and put them in the center under the light and seeing if that helps.


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

It's simply much too wet in your viv. I'm not sure if you just misted before the picture was taken, but everything looks absolutely soaked. I can't see what kind of ventilation your viv has, but there looks to be very little. Humidity is good, but I've found the whole 80%+ rule of thumb to be more detrimental than beneficial. Especially if you don't have enough ventilation. Let your viv dry out a bit (lot.) and cut way back on your misting. It may be too late for the plant though.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> It's simply much too wet in your viv. I'm not sure if you just misted before the picture was taken, but everything looks absolutely soaked. I can't see what kind of ventilation your viv has, but there looks to be very little. Humidity is good, but I've found the whole 80%+ rule of thumb to be more detrimental than beneficial. Especially if you don't have enough ventilation. Let your viv dry out a bit (lot.) and cut way back on your misting. It may be too late for the plant though.


I only mist once or twice a day if I cut way back I wouldn't be misting.
I think you're right tho about it being to moist but just on the outer edge against the glass. Water stays collected there.
it has good ventilation and it only stays soaked along the glass with the ABG mix up against it. I have looked at the ABG and it its not soggy or waterlogged anywhere in the viv except for the sides.
If this was pertaining to my entire viv then a lot of the plants would be rotting.
I don't mist nearly as much as anyone and I have grain drainage.
Not trying to dismiss what you say cause I think it applies to the outer edge so I think I will just move them to a different part.

here is some pics to show my ventilation and some pics of my ABG and other shots. 


















































see it's really not all that wet


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I agree it looks a bit soggy all though it's hard to tell from the pics.How long do you mist each time?Some plants like it wetter and will do well while others will rot in the same conditions.

Lou


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

oddlot said:


> I agree it looks a bit soggy all though it's hard to tell from the pics.How long do you mist each time?Some plants like it wetter and will do well while others will rot in the same conditions.
> 
> Lou


I figured out what it was...
You know how you have condensation built up on your glass?
well it's like that between the glass and the substrate and I planted them in between the glass and substrate to watch the roots grow....bad idea lol.
It is just way too moist right there for them.

My substrate isn't soggy tho. 
I have ABG mix in my springtail culture and it's soggy and there is a huge difference. 
I got this ABG mix from fieldnstream and he can tell you this stuff drains super well.
If you could see it in person you would see it isn't soggy


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

That does look a little too moist. You would probably be fine just spraying every other day or just lightly misting once a day. Compare your substrate pic with the one of mine (which is exactly the same)...see how mine is moist but not sopping, that is right after I misted, it is usually a little drier than that.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> That does look a little too moist. You would probably be fine just spraying every other day or just lightly misting once a day. Compare your substrate pic with the one of mine (which is exactly the same)...see how mine is moist but not sopping, that is right after I misted, it is usually a little drier than that.


it looks exactly the same.
My camera has a stupid flash on it lol and it makes it look more moist due to the light shining off of it.
Mine looks identical to the pic you just showed me 

now against the glass it is pretty moist so I won't plant up against the glass anymore

those are some good looking frogs


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I only mist once or twice a day if I cut way back I wouldn't be misting.


 In that case you don't need to cut back on the number of times you mist per day, but certainly the amount you are misting per every time you mist. I have almost no condensation on the glass in any of my vivs. Of course results will vary based on the given temps inside and outside of the vivs etc etc, but I just wanted to point that out as I believe the rule of thumb about condensation on the glass can be wrong as well. You mentioned you have a drainage layer... How much water is it holding?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> In that case you don't need to cut back on the number of times you mist per day, but certainly the amount you are misting per every time you mist. I have almost no condensation on the glass in any of my vivs. Of course results will vary based on the given temps inside and outside of the vivs etc etc, but I just wanted to point that out as I believe the rule of thumb about condensation on the glass can be wrong as well. You mentioned you have a drainage layer... How much water is it holding?


I mist for like 10 seconds.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

you dont need to mist every day. some of my tanks could easily go for a week or more without misting. 

each tank is different but there should be no need to mist that often unless there is some serious air exchange happening.

im no plant expert and when it comes to tropicals, i kill as many plants as i continue to keep alive, but i would have also pointed out that it seems too wet.

james


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I would agree with that. They need to dry out between watering. Especially if they are still wet when the lights go out. That's going to cause leaves to rot.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> you dont need to mist every day. some of my tanks could easily go for a week or more without misting.
> 
> each tank is different but there should be no need to mist that often unless there is some serious air exchange happening.
> 
> ...


it's only too wet on the glass due to condensation but that's common and there is loads of moisture there between the glass and the substrate and that's where I planted them lol. So that's where I went wrong.
I shouldn't have planted them there since there is too much moisture.
Every other plant in my viv is just fine 

a good way to test if your viv is too soggy IMO is to stick you finger into the substrate and if your finger is pretty wet then it is too moist. 
I have done so and my finger is only a bit damp.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i dont understand. 

is your substrate too wet?


DragonSpirit1185 said:


> it's only too wet on the glass due to condensation but that's common and there is loads of moisture there between the glass and the substrate and that's where I planted them lol. So that's where I went wrong.
> I shouldn't have planted them there since there is too much moisture.


or just damp?


DragonSpirit1185 said:


> a good way to test if your viv is too soggy IMO is to stick you finger into the substrate and if your finger is pretty wet then it is too moist.
> I have done so and my finger is only a bit damp.


either way your probably better letting things dry a little more. its just a suggestion take it or dont, but thats what i would do.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> I would agree with that. They need to dry out between watering. Especially if they are still wet when the lights go out. That's going to cause leaves to rot.


but this isn't the case tho....the leaves dry up before the lights turn off.
MY substrate is fine.............
It is really moist between the glass and the substrate and that's where I put the peperomias. That's where I went wrong.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> i dont understand.
> 
> is your substrate too wet?
> 
> ...


Just where the glass and the substrate meet it's too wet and I won't plant there anymore.
Only in this area.
Only against the glass.

I figured out the issue
Thread is dead


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

The plants in there imho are far too crowded, not enough air flow.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Agree. I grow tons of plants from the smallest cuttings. Its too wet in there. Youre over misting too. I have 4 10 gallon tall vivs that stay at 80% humidity. I mist them every 3-4 days. Plants only need a realitive humidity of 60-70% to start "air" rooting. 
Sometimes its better to just lay a cutting down, then to stick it in the dirt.
The substrate is there for the microfana and for the frog to stand on. The plants will grow in an empty humid box if you let em. If there is any moisture on the SIDEs of the viv (dont judge by the front glass), you should have enough.


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I mist for like 10 seconds.


 Then mist for 3 seconds.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

mordoria said:


> Agree. I grow tons of plants from the smallest cuttings. Its too wet in there. Youre over misting too. I have 4 10 gallon tall vivs that stay at 80% humidity. I mist them every 3-4 days. Plants only need a realitive humidity of 60-70% to start "air" rooting.
> Sometimes its better to just lay a cutting down, then to stick it in the dirt.
> The substrate is there for the microfana and for the frog to stand on. The plants will grow in an empty humid box if you let em. If there is any moisture on the SIDEs of the viv (dont judge by the front glass), you should have enough.


well I waited about a day and 1/2 and the side glass became bone dry and so did my background...I would say my humidity dropped down to about 50% -_-
So no I don't mist too much. I knew it wasn't a misting issue already.
I still have tried everyone's advice yet that wasn't the solution.
I used to mist twice a day lol.
Every one also needs to understands that I have an air circulation system in this viv and sometimes all the air movement cuts down on your humidity cause it is pushing the air around so much that it cools somewhat although if the air is just sitting in there it will become hotter and more humid.
I hope that made sense haha.
I planted the peperomias in between the glass and the substrate and if you think about it, in a viv you have all that condensation on the side glass and I have it on the bottom of my front glass too....well that condensation has to drain at some point so it runs down in between the glass and the substrate therefore creating a moisture pocket.
Also with the peperomias up against the glass constantly exposed to all that condensation.
It was just simply too moist where i put them and i have no other plants that close to the glass now except for the other kind of peperomia that seems to love just where it's at.
I know where I went wrong and I know this is what cause them to die.
It makes complete sense.

you take a brom, or that type of peperomia I had and find a part on your viv that has condensation all the time and and pin it against the glass and I bet that brom or peperomia will begin to rot...

like I said I have figured out what has happened.
So thread is dead


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Ok just to further prove that my viv doesn't stay constantly wet as you think it does here is an update to my viv.... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...randons-10g-vert-thumbnails-4.html#post669638
As you can see just in 30mins it had began to dry quite a bit 
Almost every pic I take is after misting cause I happen to be there with the tank.
Now you know


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

Just because the plants started to dry off doesn't mean your soil isn't saturated. I'd ask how much water your drainage layer is holding, but it's impossible to tell from your pics and I have a feeling that it would be a wasted effort.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

MrFusion said:


> Just because the plants started to dry off doesn't mean your soil isn't saturated. I'd ask how much water your drainage layer is holding, but it's impossible to tell from your pics and I have a feeling that it would be a wasted effort.


well my drainage layer drains very well and the only plants that have died were those given to me by one member.
The plants I have put in there and the plants a different member gave me have all been doing fine. I find that strange.
No one's ABG is gonna fully dry but mine stays moist but not soggy.
to be honest there is more tree fern, sphagnum, and cork bark than anything and the peat that is mixed in is the only thing that really stays moist.
anyone's drainage layer/ABG mix is gonna stay pretty moist after misting.
I am gonna let it dry and drain over night and dig up a bit and take a pic before I mist again.
Don't get me wrong I'm not ruling what you say out but I just know my viv and I'm almost certain I am doing everything right.

if the ABG was holding too much moisture then I wouldn't be draining a 1/2 gallon or more a week of water when I only mist once a day for 10secs or less.
I thought about putting a mist king system on the viv but I feel like it would be too much to fool with if I'm only misting once a day.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Doesn't look like you have a drainage layer, in which case I definitely 100% agree with the other 7-8 people who have told you that it's too wet....... you should have a ~2" layer of gravel or hydroton UNDER the ABG mix........ it cannot drain well if it has nowhere to drain to. 

Why do you ask for people's advice and then argue that they're wrong when they all tell you the same thing?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

tclipse said:


> Doesn't look like you have a drainage layer, in which case I definitely 100% agree with the other 7-8 people who have told you that it's too wet....... you should have a ~2" layer of gravel or hydroton UNDER the ABG mix........ it cannot drain well if it has nowhere to drain to.
> 
> Why do you ask for people's advice and then argue that they're wrong when they all tell you the same thing?


wow um that is a false bottom with screen on top and it's about 2 inches high.
the hose is coming up to so i can drain and the stainless steel wire is there so in the future if I redo the tank or if there is ever a leak I can pull up the false bottom.
I spray panted the outside at the false bottom and down to hide the false bottom.
like I said above I get a 1/2 gallon or more of drainage per week with only misting once for 10 secs a day.




















































yes it has plenty of room to drain to. that screen drains a lot better than weed block


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