# Frog Heat Stroke Warning!



## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Hey guys. 

Everyone knows that too much heat is a dart killer. 

Temps around here have been too high. (High 80's low 90's)

In addition to that I need to run a dehumidifier in my room (I live in an apartment basement with aquariums and vivaria)

So the room is roasting as of lately. 

My azureus has been doing fine - looking better actually and then yesterday I came home to find her collapsed. I cant describe how upset I was over this. 

Not willing to accept the death of my frog - I put her in a QT container with wet sphagnum and some clippings from her viv. 

I rushed her to my parents house (where there is AC) and this morning (almost 24 hours later) she is breathing again. 

If your frogs get too hot, please dont just freeze them, throw them away, or do whatever you intend on doing with them. There is obviously a chance that they are still alive. 

I am sure that this has been posted elsewhere, but with how the summer has been here in Wisco - I just thought I might reiterate the point.


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## madran2 (Mar 22, 2010)

Here in Alabama temps get high here some too and to a vivarium room with lights my tanks had a hard time staying in safe range on temps. But i learned a new way to help my darts during the summer if your frog room is separate from your living quarters is to reverse their night and day lighting. Lights come on at 7:00pm and shut off around 9am. I am a night owl so keeping up with the froggs isnt hard for me but the sacrifice is worth my frogs not dying of heat induced stress. Maybe this info will help others too and it only stopped their laying for 1 month while they acclimated to their new cycle.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

I wonder if any fertility studies have been done on dendrobatids that have been exposed to higher than normal temps for an extended period of time?


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## bradlyb (Jul 22, 2013)

In one of my biology classes we did a lab where we monitored metabolism of mice and frogs by cooling and warming them in an isolated container either surrounded by ice or hot water. One of the other groups had a frog that seemed to die from the ice treatment.

About an hour later, back at room temperature, it came back to life. One of the girls cried in delight.

Obviously heat is much different then cold, and many of us know that some species of frog can endure a near complete freeze over the winter. I would be interested to know if there is any neurological damage such behavioral changes that occur in the future, and if it's breeding is affected.


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## yomamafat (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm sure that others will continue to chime in on this post, but I'm going to share my observations in my frog room. This past summer it was horrible in the Mid-Atlantic. The temperature in my basement probably averaged 85 degrees for 2 months, but the terrariums are moist, well planted, and ventilated. Frogs continued to breed and froglets continued to develop. All was good except the stress caused the frogs to lose weight. I had to increase feedings from 2 x week to 3.5 x week to keep them the same weight (I really pay attention to the muscle mass in their thighs to get a good reading on how healthy my frogs are). Obviously, like people, the biggest changes are seen in the very young and old frogs. I hope that helps.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

My frog persisted in a room that must have been in the 80's for at least a month. 

The viv had to have been hotter than that. 

I wont be risking it again. They will stay in AC until temps cool down. 

_Lithobates sylvaticus_ actually has adapted to freeze between its cells. Cold is always better than heat IMO - coming from the tropical fish side, I have had tropicals shipped to me in winter that were low 60's if not worse. 

Had a _Pomacanthus navarchus_ floating on its side in that temperature water and I revived him by warming him slowly. Lived with me for 4 years, and now is with a friend.


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## Sabotage (Jun 1, 2010)

I live where it is regularly in the 100s during summer, and have come home from work before where the tank temp read 89. I have two leucs, five vents (two youngsters), and two red galacs. All were fine, but it was a wakeup call. I got a Nest thermostat that has an emergency on you can set to kick on at any temp (and you can change the temp on your phone). Also, switching the day night cycle works if finances are an issue, or putting frozen water bottles in the tank.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

bradlyb said:


> In one of my biology classes we did a lab where we monitored metabolism of mice and frogs by cooling and warming them in an isolated container either surrounded by ice or hot water. One of the other groups had a frog that seemed to die from the ice treatment.
> 
> About an hour later, back at room temperature, it came back to life. One of the girls cried in delight.
> 
> Obviously heat is much different then cold, and many of us know that some species of frog can endure a near complete freeze over the winter. I would be interested to know if there is any neurological damage such behavioral changes that occur in the future, and if it's breeding is affected.


http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2013/08/scienceshot-secret-frozen-frogs


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## fishman9809 (Dec 8, 2008)

I think the most important thing is to have very good circulation and/or vents so that the frogs can use evaporative cooling. Places where thumbnails are from can get up into the 90s and obviously they manage quite well in the wild. My viv hit around 88 or 89 this summer while housing a proven pair for a local that went on vacation. They seemed to be loving it (but of course I have a big computer fan in my viv) and eventually laid fertile eggs later that week.


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## MarkB (May 23, 2012)

These discussions come up every single year. Not only do they come up but how my posts do we see EVERY summer from people seeking advice on how to cool theirs vivs come summertime. People who continually come on the forum asking these questions is just being purely irresponsible. 

If you know the proper care of dart frogs and you live anywhere were it gets hot enough to effect the well being of your frogs and you don't have a temperature controlled environment you are an IRRESPONSIBLE owner. 

I live in Canada. Guess what..? I got an air conditioning in my window as soon as they are predicting 20 degrees(75 ish F)or hotter. Like others here on the board, my room gets hot with all the lights and under no circumstance do I ever think that I can solely rely on ventilation and changing light cycles to keep my darts alive. It's frustrating to see people in the southern US and other parts of the world thinking they can manage through the summer months. 

In my opinion if people want these as pets they should be at least be able to provide a proper climate to maintain their health.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Im with the poster above. 

I will never keep frogs without AC again. 

Period. 

Just weird I got away with it this long without a wakeup call. Im lucky I got one.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I think we have to remember that often we keep sealed vivariums with no air flow and no bottom ventilation to offgas C02. Imagine what it'd be like to be inside a greenhouse with no ventilation.

Now, sit outside in the shade in the 90s with lower humidity and a mister. Isn't there a difference?

What I've learned and from talking to other keepers is that good air flow, ventilation, and a way to keep the frogs hydrated (a misting system) often means survival vs. no survival. In the wild, frogs can choose to move to a shady, cooler spot inside a log or hide under a rock down by the stream. Most wise humans do work outside in the morning or evening if it's going to be super hot. I don't think dart frogs evolved to live under full sun from power compacts out on moss pastures. If they did, you would find them grazing and chewing cud with paranoid eyes scanning for lions.


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## tigertail333 (Sep 23, 2014)

I am a beginner and this is my first 2 azurius frogs. Unfortunately, I did not cool the tank when a heat wave rolled through southern California. My smaller of the 2 frogs perished after a week of fighting for his life. The remaining frog is alert and seems interested in flies but he is not eating, at least when I am watching. He doesn't move around as much and he has lost a lot of weight. I am wondering can the heat stroke cause behavioral and neurological changes in the frog? Is there anything I can do for him? I have soaked him in a mineral bath for 30 min. and kept his tank below 80 degrees and humidity 80-100% for 1 a week. I have been dusting flies with vitamin D and Multivitamin for 6 months and both frogs were fine prior to the heat wave. I have a live vivarium with a waterfall, pump, hydro balls, live plants and LED lighting. I have read that heat is a killer for these guys but since the one still slightly thrives, I can't give up on him and would appreciate any advice or shared experience in this area.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

check the other post where you ask a similiar question....


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## ManlyHeart (Sep 8, 2014)

In the book "Poison Dart Frogs: A Guide To Care and Breeding", the recommendation was to put a bottle of water in the freezer and then put it in a paper bag and place it in the vivarium to lower temp during the hotter months. This method also works with rats and mice that are kept as pets though they do chew through the bottle. I have never tried it with a frog since I do not have a frog yet. I'm working my way there.


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

Some people need to realize that these questions are going to be continued to be asked year after year and complaining about it or the frogs' owners does absolutely no good. Educating them or posting answers that can later be found during a search does. I for one did not do enough research before I got my fist frogs. To make things worse, I also had never been part of an online forum either. Wow did I get a fast rude awakening by whiners and elite wannabe's online about newbies and impulse buyers, etc. If the question or situation bothers you, ignore it and move on. Teaching newcomers instead of chasing them out of the hobby or forum by name calling and "frog shaming" them is the only way we are ever going to advance our hobby. Complaining is nothing but a waste of everyone's time, much like this response most likely is...


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## tigertail333 (Sep 23, 2014)

I agree with you MELLOWROO421. I did not impulsively buy my frogs. I looked into their care and how to put a proper viv together for months before I bought them. There is a lot to learn about raisinf such delucate creatures in an envorinment that is not tropical. Being a beginner, I come to this forum for advice and not to be made to feel like a a careless owner. Im sure the guy who posted on 9-1-13 is mean and a bully and hasn't always been an "expert." He should keep his negative comments to himself.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

MELLOWROO421 said:


> Some people need to realize that these questions are going to be continued to be asked year after year and complaining about it or the frogs' owners does absolutely no good. Educating them or posting answers that can later be found during a search does. I for one did not do enough research before I got my fist frogs. To make things worse, I also had never been part of an online forum either. Wow did I get a fast rude awakening by whiners and elite wannabe's online about newbies and impulse buyers, etc. If the question or situation bothers you, ignore it and move on. Teaching newcomers instead of chasing them out of the hobby or forum by name calling and "frog shaming" them is the only way we are ever going to advance our hobby. Complaining is nothing but a waste of everyone's time, much like this response most likely is...


Reading your post wasn't a waste wasn't a waste of time, it was a pleasure Thanks for posting that Brian, your totally correct. We can't change what has already happened, but we can do our best to keep it from happening again. I always recommend that people use the search function on the site, but I have no problem answering these threads.

There are a few good ways to help your collection survive a heat wave, I prefer to use evaporative cooling which is the same concept behind swamp coolers and perspiration. If I recall correctly, Ed has posted often on the subject and has explained it well. I would use the search on it if I were you. Other options are to cool the entire room by using an air conditioner and to reverse your lighting cycle. When in a pinch, all of these methods are invaluable to keeping your frogs happy! Also, keep in mind that dart frogs can do just fine in the mid-eighties and these temps are not bad, be wary of anything too much higher though.


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## robthefrogman (Jul 19, 2014)

Any loss is disturbing, it is sad to see any creature in your personal care die...

On the turn side to heat (and thumbs up to frogs for resilience) I once had my furnace go out and the temps were down to 37 degrees in the house. I did not find out until I got home later in the evening... Let me tell you all my frogs looked dead. In fact those in film canisters looked like they would drown so I removed them and thought wow they will all die. I was lucky to have only 2 tads die after heating the house back up to 72. I went out and purchased a few more space heaters too... 

They say heat is more stressful and there goes the proof. These posts make me think I should get my central air checked next spring for sure.


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## tigertail333 (Sep 23, 2014)

Ya ive been reading the same thing about heat being vey stressful. This was my first time owning frogs and i feel so bad that I wasnt more informed. There is so much to learn about these little guys but they are such a joy in return. Definitely get your central air checked up!


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## Otter (Aug 31, 2014)

This has come up in another thread that I posted this link in. This is a DIY AC easy to make and might be helpful in some situations. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxSLbpAwibg

John


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