# Azureus weight loss



## otherside21 (Feb 26, 2012)

Hi,

I've had my two azureus for just over a year now and they had been doing really well.

Sapphire has recently (over the past couple of weeks) lost a ton of weight. I took him/her to an exotic vet today and they couldn't find any other symptoms other than weight loss. He has been sitting in the same place for lengths of time- has no energy I expect.

She suggested getting a fecal sample, which I will attempt- how are people finding them, as my viv is fairly brown anyway, and I wouldn't be able to tell if it was Sapphire's or my other dart frog. I know what the feces look like, it's just a case of finding it and I'm not sure if Sapphire has even been defecating at all.

I feed them fruit flies and micro crickets, sprinkled with vitamins once a week. 

His tank mate Cerulean has been jumping about and sometimes jumps on top of Sapphire- is this a sign of aggression? And could this be what is stressing him out? 

I am really worried as I'm not sure there is much I can do and I really don't want him to die. 

Here are some pics of how thin he is:


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm so sorry. My heart aches to see this. Unfortunately, I'm not much help with your questions. Hopefully a seasoned veteran will chime in with some solid advice. 

From what I've read(not experienced), fruit fly larvae is higher in fat content and would possibly be a better choice in food for the little guy. Possibly place him in a qt container buy himself with damp paper towels. That way you could easily spot his feces and activity.

Once again, hopefully someone experienced with this can help you much more. In the meantime, keep reading through some of the other threads that have covered similar circumstances.

Best of luck to your little guy...hope he pulls through!

-Chris


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Wow, thats pretty skinny. I would separate him IMMEDIATELY and feed him some ff maggots (They are high in fat, they fatten up frogs very fast). as of right now, thats what I can recommend, lets see what others say.


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## otherside21 (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks kitcolebay & frog dude. I will attempt the maggots. I've made a sort of mini viv within my viv and he is separated from the other greedy tank mate.

The good news is that he managed to eat a fruit fly and a couple of crickets but I think they are a bit too fast for him when he is feeling sluggish so maggots is a good idea.

I'll await further advice and hope he makes it


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

otherside21 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've had my two azureus for just over a year now and they had been doing really well.
> 
> ...




feeding once a week could be part of the problem.....


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Are you sure he is a "he"? I'm not positive, but to me they look like they may be two females. 

From what I've observed so far, 2 females will usually be fine together without a male present...but if he is actually a "she", perhaps aggression/intimidation is a factor. I would make sure they are separated so that they cannot even see each other and continue with the fecals as well. If everything comes back okay, I would continue separation at least until the frog is a much better weight. If you place him/her back in the tank, monitor closely for a while.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

that frog looks awfully small for a year old. The easiest way to get a fecal is to put the frog in a separate container with some moist paper towel


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## purplezephead (Aug 26, 2011)

Absolutely keep it separate until it is a healthy weight. Azureus adults are known for tank mate aggression, particularly between females, if not in a large enough enclosure. A male/female pair ideally should be housed in at least a 20 gallon tank, you could probably get away w/a 15, but I wouldn't try it. Two females would need to be in something larger than a 20. By separating (as was stated by another member) and putting it on damp paper towel you would be able to get a fecal and be sure it is from the correct frog. Be sure to put something sterilized in the tank for the frog to hide under (coco hut, cleaned yogurt cup, solo cup, etc.) or it will get stressed out farther and make the problem worse. I say sterilized because it could bring things like mites or nematodes into the tank that would infest the fecal, potentially giving a false reading. The best feeding method would be to put some ff media, from your producing culture w/maggots, in something small (I use soda/milk caps) and place in the quarantine tank. When you add adult flies they will lay eggs in the cap of media, creating a practically non stop source of maggots (until the media runs out). If you live in or near an area where you could go out and find termites that would help put some weight on the frog as well (they are also very fatty), but ff maggots are the easiest.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

jeffr said:


> that frog looks awfully small for a year old.


It seems (to me) that when a young frog goes through an extended period in an enclosure where it suffers intimidation, its growth suffers. If you catch it in time though, it seems that the frog can catch up.

Anyone else with thoughts/experience with this?


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## hamsterdave (Feb 25, 2013)

Marylanddartfrog, I think he missed an oxford comma there. I think he's sprinkling with vitamins once a week. I would hope feeding more often than that.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

It's possible that there is new aggression due to their age. At around one year old they are reaching sexual maturity. I agree that you should separate him. Also, in my experience, putting him in water to soak might help you to get a fecal sample from him. 

Good luck with the little fella.


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## otherside21 (Feb 26, 2012)

Yes, hamsterdave, that's what I meant. And I'm a she! lol. 

Sorry, I meant that I dust them with vitamins once a week, they get fed every other day, so 3/4 times a week.

I don't know the sexes of either of them and I've had mixed opinions on this, but it seems to be the common thought that they are two of the same sex. 

Sapphire has always been smaller than Cerulean but has only started losing weight recently, past couple of weeks.

I separated them last night and placed some maggots and hiding places for Sapphire, with some damp paper towels.

This morning it wasn't looking good and I'm sad to say I don't think he/she is going to make it. He/she was in the death position but when I checked he was still alive. So I may have to euthanise him/her later as I really don't think he's going to survive now. 

Thanks for all the advice though everyone, I can only hope that Cerulean doesn't have anything happen to him. I'll update later.


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## otherside21 (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank you everyone, but Sapphire died today. I'm pretty upset about it, no-one else seems to understand that to me they are just like any other pet, they meant a lot to me. 

Does anyone have any recommendations for environmental disposal? I really don't want to flush Sapphire or throw him in the bin, he's too good for that.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry 

For disposal, I've read that they should be double bagged before placed into the trash. They need to go to the landfill and probably shouldn't be buried out in your yard. Maybe put them into a nice box or something special but also double bag it before it goes out to the landfill.

Oh I see you're in UK. Not sure how your landfills (trash dump) work out there. Around here, they are supposed to be lined and/or designed to prevent contamination.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

frogface said:


> I'm so sorry
> 
> For disposal, I've read that they should be double bagged before placed into the trash. They need to go to the landfill and probably shouldn't be buried out in your yard. Maybe put them into a nice box or something special but also double bag it before it goes out to the landfill.
> 
> Oh I see you're in UK. Not sure how your landfills (trash dump) work out there. Around here, they are supposed to be lined and/or designed to prevent contamination.


Hey Kris,
I think !! that the same protocols apply here,double bag solid,bleech all solubles before they enter the waste stream. 
That said "Otherside" you might also have the option of burning, cremation maybe a better term at this difficult time for you.Yup I'm a guy,but also care deeply about these little frogs.I'm sorry for your loss. So using Kris's nice little box and cremation might just be a nicer option for you if you prefer. It is very important that we as a hobby, here, are extremely careful not to endanger our native fauna.

If you want to get the other frog checked out fecal wise Herpvet.co.uk might just be able to help. Just to add another local bit of knowledge: alot of the dart keepers here use Repashy calcium plus for dusting(yes it is a fabulous American product), you can get it from Repashy Super Foods and you can dust all feeds with this.
Good luck with your other little azzie
regards

Stu


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

All froggers should invest in some metronidazole this will help a ton also a soak in clear unflavored room temp pedialyte as sick frogs tend not to have the energy to eat. Also I recommend dusting every time you feed. Not dusting enough can cause short tongue which will actually prevent you frog from being able to eat.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm sorry  

Good luck with Cerulean


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## otherside21 (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank you everyone for all your advice and help.

Cerulean seems fine at the moment, jumping around, eating fine etc. and I'm keeping a close eye for any problems. I may get the fecal done just to play safe, thanks!


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## Daleo (Jan 31, 2012)

I had an issue similar to this with my first set of azureus. They were 3 froglets, and one got huge while one wasted away. I separated the small one but it died, and the other one died too. I was left with one huge froglet. I suspected a mixture of food competition and aggression. Now I keep all my tincs in separate containers until I can guess at sexing. :/ Sorry for your loss.


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## otherside21 (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank you. That's weird, perhaps it was something to do with the dominant frog. Cerulean is definitely dominant.

It's a shame not knowing what killed Sapphire.

I'm getting paranoid & thinking I may have done something wrong & that caused the death as I'm pretty new to dart frogs.

But then I think, I had them for 1 year & 3months, so surely any issues would have come up sooner if I had done something wrong. It's a mystery.


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## SNAKEMANVET (Dec 14, 2011)

Sorry for your loss,I recently lost 2 azureus frogs,they both just stopped eating and were not moveing much.


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