# Dried clumps of Frog Moss



## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

About a week ago I found this at petsmart and I rinsed it off and put it in my tank. It looked good at first and now is yellow. I have misters and it is in a well lighted spot. Any suggestions? Or should I take it back for a refund.

-Beth


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## kawickstrom (Oct 3, 2008)

As far as I know (which isn't much) moss doesn't like a whole lot of light. I believe it prefers a patially shaded area.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Humm, it is in the back of my tank so it is not getting a full amount of light.


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## MattySF (May 25, 2005)

The pillow mosses need a lot of light sounds like you covered that. The aquatic mosses are good for lower light levels.

Buy live moss for best results.

T&C terrarium often has pillow moss and do they send you a ton.

If you return your used moss let us know how that goes.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I have not had a problem returning stuff to them, but I am persistant.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I've had that stuff regrow in the past and it seems like it turned colors before starting back up. It does need strong light. Maybe one of the plant guys would have a better idea though.


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

I have never had any luck getting the dried mosses to regrow. Most will grow back from lingering spore but many mosses just don't like to completely dry out for long periods. The moss is also most likely a temperate moss which does not do well long term in a vivarium.

Mosses take a very wide range of light and for the most part don't like being in a lower or higher light level than they grew in.

I think your money is better spent on one of the live tropical mosses offered by various vendors.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks Harry.

-Beth


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

On the dried mosses alot will depend on how fresh they are. I actually just bought some, and some was already yellowing in the bag (didnt buy it), the stuff i got was nice and green and should have a better chance of growing back...but it probably wont, they rarely do. But ya spore might be on there and u could get new moss from that. 

i leave dead moss in my tank if possible it often comes back to life or spores take hold and grow and the new moss is more acclimated to the tank conditions. I got this moss for a desert viv actually, i just needed a natural carpet that wouldnt carry a risk of impactation since its unlikely a herp would ingest much from a moss pillow going after a cricket.

Its a myth that all temperate mosses require a dormant period, one im trying to crush on this board, cuz it gets repeated so often!!!!  (Kidding...kinda)

For intance i've had good luck trying local mosses here in oklahoma...if you are way north, ya your stuff probably wont work, but i've heard of people in new york taking stuff from outside and having it do well in a viv so u never know...and dead moss is often a good substrate for new moss, especially if you dust the surface with some peat and keep it moist.

You want about 2+ watts of light per gallon of the viv...the light levels in a viv even a well lit one are actually more like you'd find on an overcast day. I have over a 100watts of lighting on my 30 cube and the moss loves it. Its much easier to under light moss then to over light it...but often your highest light areas are your dryest areas and that combo can kill your moss. So make sure its almost always moist in very high light situations.

I have suspision also that when you lay sheets or large pillows of moss down you want to do it on a surface that will mold to the bottom of the sheet or pillow, it seems to much air under there causes problems, lay down a layer of peat, maybe with a little sand mixed in.....moss from spore will stick to most any moist substrate no matter how clumpy it is.

Avoid vitamin and mineral powders getting on your moss as much as possible and stay away from tap water, hard water especially kills moss quite nicely when used long term...the occasional tap water misting wont hurt much though.

And yes your tropical mosses are your best bet when ordering online...t and c moss is awsome, but they have a very limited supply and are often out of stock...kyoto spore works great also, lay the spore down thick though, 1 or 2 packs per square foot atleast. its slow to start sometimes but once it does its unstoppable...atleast i think its the kyoto that has been out doing all my other mosses(literally growing right on them, including t and c moss)...could be some infiltrator though that just happened to make it into a tank i seeded with kyoto spore  Ricca is great too if you have good lighting and a moist substrate.


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

> Its a myth that all temperate mosses require a dormant period, one im trying to crush on this board, cuz it gets repeated so often!!!!  (Kidding...kinda)


I would have to agree with this. I have a moss that grows on the brick in the front of my house. It seems to do well in a terrarium given the right amount of light. I think mosses such as the pillow mosses are the ones that transplant the worst. But, I have a moss gardening book and one of the things it says mosses like as far as a substrate is a clay based soil. Not sure how that would work in a terrarium bit it seems to work well outside.

Now, I must say I do not have animals in my terrariums so I don't have to worry about pathogens too much.


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

I put some of the frog moss in my viv, anmd most of it didn't survive. I put about half of it set up where I wanted it to grow, and took the other half and rubbed it all over all of the wood in my viv. On epice that I set up came back to life, but hasn't dont much, and there are a bunch of little pieces growing everywhere, but they dont look all that great.

I actually had good luck having sphagnum come back to life. I bought the organic long fiber stuff from home depot, and used it to wrap some epiphytes, but most of it came back to life, to my surprise. The bag says that its harvested in Wisconsin. The sphagnum seems to like staying wet and doesn't seem as picky about light.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Yeah, I've had the same sucess with my spahgnum as well. Actually it may have been orchid moss, I can't remember. But its definetily worth a try.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

harrywitmore said:


> I would have to agree with this. I have a moss that grows on the brick in the front of my house. It seems to do well in a terrarium given the right amount of light. I think mosses such as the pillow mosses are the ones that transplant the worst. But, I have a moss gardening book and one of the things it says mosses like as far as a substrate is a clay based soil. Not sure how that would work in a terrarium bit it seems to work well outside.
> 
> Now, I must say I do not have animals in my terrariums so I don't have to worry about pathogens too much.


I bet i read the same book....thats where i got my back up for the "Not all temperate mosses need a dormant period"...and personal experience. I've actually kicked snow off the ground in the middle of winter here to find bright green moss underneath. Hell i have some growing outside my door right now 

And ya i've noticed that alot of the local mosses i see here are growing on some kind of clay substrate...it might be a mix of regular soil and clay, or sand and clay, or all 3 plus whatever else...but clay is almost always in the mix. I'm wondering if zoo meds new excavator clay might be something worth adding to the top layer of a vivarium substrate mix?

BTW Harry i miss your store...i'll be checking out your ebay items when they are listed, i just noticed that link...somehow i missed it the last few times i went to your site. 

I'm putting together a desert viv for a future leopard gecko. With a complicated substrate, lighting/heating and fan/ventilation system to allow me to keep plants alive and also meet the gecko's needs on a substrate (where there should be little fear of impactation). If you have any plant suggestions for a semi arid environment with no thorns (im thinking succulants mostly) in with temps in the high 70-'s to 80's and 50% or less humidity i'd love to hear em, feel free to PM me, or respond to my thread... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lounge/35591-desert-vivariums-2.html


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

Dendro Dave said:


> BTW Harry i miss your store...i'll be checking out your ebay items when they are listed, i just noticed that link...somehow i missed it the last few times i went to your site.


It will be returning in March.

The Moss Gardening book is a great book which I highly recommend if you are interested in mosses. I'm on a Selaginella kick at the moment which fits right in. I hoping to see some cool one in Panama.


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

This book?
Amazon.com: Moss Gardening: Including Lichens, Liverworts and Other Miniatures: George H. Schenk: Books


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

Yep. He doesn't cover growing in terrariums but it's a good book none the less.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Yeah, I would also reccomend that book. I was pretty suprised when I started reading it, cause I half expected it to be without "voice" but it is actually a pretty funny book, or at least the funniest book you will get about moss gardening.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Yep thats the book, good stuff...beautiful pictures. I wish i still had it, it was from the library. Might have to just buy the dang thang.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Took it back to petsmart this weekend and recieved my refund. My advice is do not buy it, plenty of nice moss sold by vendors (have bought moss from 2)on the site that are not as convenient but work and do not turn yellow.

Thanks all.

-Beth


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Alright Dave, lets see some photos. Proof is in the pudding! I have never had any luck with mosses from any further north than Florida in terrariums. I would love to see some evidence of long term establishment of mosses from elsewhere.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Seems like they dye it green sometimes----kinda explains why it's dried out but still green. We may noy be talking about the same thing, though. Definitely overpriced.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Frogtofall said:


> Alright Dave, lets see some photos. Proof is in the pudding! I have never had any luck with mosses from any further north than Florida in terrariums. I would love to see some evidence of long term establishment of mosses from elsewhere.


Its kinda hard to tell some apart sometimes, they look very similar at certain stages of their developement. Especially since i just pile in as many times of mosses as i can and let em fight it out. I didnt know there'd be a test!!! 

Well the ice storm took the majority of my moss collection along with frogs, and plants, but I'll see what i can do...i have some moss, i think its from kyoto spore that has nearly taken over every other moss i have left in my few remaining vivs, including t & c tropical moss...its relentless. But i know that there is a smattering of this one moss i've found outside here still alive in that 30 cube after a year. i'll see if i can get a pic. But hey, isnt kyoto spore japanese? thats temperate right? not oklahoma temperate but fairly close


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ok i got some pics of my various mosses, or most of them...i left out the t&c moss(not pictured) since we know thats tropical. Very little of my black jungle tropical moss(also not pictured) has survived, but there is still some holding on and its been over a year since i've ordered any. That stuff is weird though, it seems to be 2 forms of the same species, or 2 species mixed together. Whats left is the more java moss looking form, that seems to grow upright. Maybe it is java moss mixed in... not the stuff that forms the very low matted carpet and is usually a slightly lighter green. The matted form i have seen produce sporophytes, the javaish form i have not. (nor have i seen known java moss produce them)

Honestly the matted form of black jungle looks like an aquatic taiwan moss or christmas type moss, and seems to love water but who am i to question them  It is probably tropical, and it will grow on land, But i dont like the look as much as most other mosses. Java moss is about the only one i dislike more. So if that is java that was mixed in thats all i got left i think.

K, sorry for the rambling...on to the pics!

First pic is the moss thats taking over everything...very odd stuff, its scallopy or whatver when it starts to colonize, its almost like a liverwort? It forms very very low carpet that covers practically anything.This the one i think came from the kyoto spores also, but i cant be sure. When it fills in, its a very nice rich green dense carpet. Possibly the most perfect viv moss in its combination of survivability, quickness to spread, and look that i've found. I have never seen this moss even when it seems to be doing great (which is always) produce a sporophyte. 








This second moss is a temperate moss i've found that seems to be common in my area of oklahoma, i think i've even seen it in arkansas. This one has survived years in my vivs, but tends to get out competed by other mosses and survives in lil niches. Its the tall leafy stalks, im not sure which moss or mosses is sourounding it. As i said i throw a bunch in, and some of them mingle together. But it looks like finer moss just below the two stalks of the temperate moss on the right is a moss that may be from an orchid i bought. it came with a moss carpet around it, and the moss did really well in my vivs, and had that classic moss look. I mean when you think moss...this is the moss that probably comes to mind  Emerald green, low, soft, and with the classic lil brown sporophytes sticking up, but does not form pillows, just a carpet. I have never seen this produce a sporophyte, it just spreads outward it seems, or just stay confined to its originaly planting spots, and it has survived years in my vivs doing so. (though as stated in isolated pockets, as its outcompeted)









This third moss is some kind of pillow moss i believe, also the others listed do not seem to form pillows like this one. This one will survive for quite some time in the viv, but i think usually dies off....sometimes coming back, possibly from the spore. I pulled this from out side the other day where it was still green here in the middle of winter(So no dormant period?), and a few days in the viv and it is getting ready to produce sporophytes. Its in the first viv i ever built, which seems to kill moss...i have to add moss to it every six months to a year or so even though the soil and humidity and light all seem fine...i think it is the fact its a paludarium and has years of hard water used in it. I added the kyoto moss to that viv finally, hopefully it will be permanent. It seems to be very resistant so far.








This last moss im not sure about, i know its temperate, and i know it lasts a very long time in my vivs, if not permanent, or outcompeted by other mosses. I just pulled it from outside the other day also along with the pillow moss. (still green in jan, so no dormant period again?) but im not sure if it is just another state of developement of the tall leafy moss that was the focus of the second pic. This moss or form of the 2nd pic moss is lower and usually a lil darker, and again grows in a carpet not pillow. I know this looks somewhat simlar to the 2nd pic moss, but in real life the growth habit and stalk/leaf structure, and usually the color is noticably different. So not sure but i think its aseperate species, or subspecies. I dont believe i've ever seen sporophytes from this moss/form either. And it doesnt spread much, atleast not in this form?








I have another pillow type moss but im pretty sure it is just the younger version of the pillow moss in the third pic, didnt bother to post it. And there is another lighter green moss growing in the same soils as these other types of mosses sometimes, but it seems to be the very very beginings of one of these temperate mosses i've listed, but the color is often different, more blue greenish actually. Dont think there is any outside now, so no pic.

Ok well thats its...atleast one definate OK moss that survives years in vivs, assuming you take my word for it 
Some of the mosses i think have gone extinct in my vivs, various temperate and the matted black jungle moss may infact still be there, as i have many sections of moss that seem to have 2-3 species growing all together very densely, and its hard to pick them out.


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

I would guess the first is a Liverwort and not a moss. It reproduces by spore so it could have been mixed in with the Kyoto moss. I personally would love some since it seems to be a weed for you.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

For anyone that was curious this is a pic of the denser carpet form of the scallopy moss in the first pic of the previous post. Its mostly covering the wood. The rest of the pictured moss is a mix as this is a small grow out tank. The entire tank floor and wood piece used to be coated in this moss but i have since harvested much of it.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

harrywitmore said:


> I would guess the first is a Liverwort and not a moss. It reproduces by spore so it could have been mixed in with the Kyoto moss. I personally would love some since it seems to be a weed for you.


Hey Harry maybe we could work out a trade or something, but for right now all i'd be able to offer you is a few square inches at most without taking a huge chunk out of an established viv (i have few of those after the ice storm) as the majority was harvested in small plugs to redo my 75. 

It does have a very high transplant success though even in small plugs.

It seems the t&c moss has alot of fern spore or something in it, and i let my 75 get way over grown with it, and in general plant wise so most of the moss died out from lack of light. The lil ferns or whatever look cool in themselves but have to be regularly pruned or removed or they overwhelm the moss carpet, and are near impossible to get rid of all together. in moderation they add to the look, but they can easily get out of hand  

There is a chance that any moss i send you may have some of that spore in it as most of my mosses have been mixed at one time or another. Though this moss does seem pretty resistant to those spores taking over once its established.

I'd be intrested in any truely miniture plants you have, especially flowering. I could probably throw in a couple bucks in needed to even out the trade.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I have taken temperate mosses form my house and put them un vivs with success antone. I will try to find the cord to plug my camera into my pc and put some up. It has been in there for 2 years and still going strong, so it seems to be permanent. Getting fatter all the time


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

I have bought that frog moss from petsmart. I do go through all the packages and buy the greenest ones. When I get them home, I put it in a clear sterilite container and soaked them for a few days, even up to a week and put the container with the lid on under a light. Then, I put it in the tanks. I have had no problems getting them to grow back. In one tank, the moss is very close to the light(about 10-12") and the moss is gwoing well and bright green. In another tank, the moss is pretty far from the light(about 24") and it is brown in some spots but not dead.


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## jpatino (Jan 6, 2007)

someone said to use live moss in this thread. i have it in my tank now it turns to a nice green but it is not very cost effective. i payed 10.00 for less then a square foot. could anyone direct me to some place to buy live moss cheaper as i plane on doing a few more tanks in the near future. thanks for any help you can give me.

john p


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

jpatino said:


> someone said to use live moss in this thread. i have it in my tank now it turns to a nice green but it is not very cost effective. i payed 10.00 for less then a square foot. could anyone direct me to some place to buy live moss cheaper as i plane on doing a few more tanks in the near future. thanks for any help you can give me.
> 
> john p


Go to a reptile expo... You can do better than $10 per sq/ft.

Dried petstore moss is not the best stuff out there - that's for sure.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

harrywitmore said:


> I would guess the first is a Liverwort and not a moss. It reproduces by spore so it could have been mixed in with the Kyoto moss. I personally would love some since it seems to be a weed for you.


This looks like the one I'm trying to identify. See my post "mystery groundcover plant".


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