# My Latest Rock Wall Tank - 18x18x24 Exoterra



## melas

Okay so I've started working on my second rock wall tank now that I've gotten one under my belt. Here is the post for my first one . . . 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...281-30gallon-tall-w-artificial-rock-wall.html

Here are some shots of my progress . . . 

here is a shot of the foam






















































Here is the "stuff" I've been using for all of my rock work. I got a few questions about it last time so I figured I'd just show you. Go to the tile section at Lowe's. It's like $10 and will go a pretty long way!


----------



## Devanny

Uhhhhh i cant wait to see it done, i havent been working on mine due to not having time to do so. Does the tile leveler have a mold preventor in it?, i had my husband look all over for the laticrete brand but they all had the mold prevention stuff.


----------



## Hayden

Awesome job so far! I am about to build my first rock wall in a 20L for my bicolor group and this is really inspiring and helpful. One question though, where do I find the foam for the rocks? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.


----------



## DenZ0r

Looks nice! What are you going to put in there? 
I like the rock thing idea! 

Grtz


----------



## Julio

that latycrete stuff looks good, i am gonna have to try it soon.


----------



## Corpus Callosum

Do you think it might be easier to do the rock wall outside the tank and then silicone it in? I'm about to try this on a new tank I'm setting up and can't decide whether to make them inside the tank or not.


----------



## Derek Benson

That looks awesome. I plan on doing this to a 40 hex and have an eggcrate frame to put it in so I can do it outside of the tank...


----------



## Amphiman

I like it...But you pretty much have to go brom-less with a rock wall right?


----------



## JoshH

Amphiman said:


> I like it...But you pretty much have to go brom-less with a rock wall right?


Nah, bromos mainly just use trees as support. In rocky regions you'll see them all over cliffs and mossy boulders. This is providing that they get good misting of course...


----------



## melas

Devanny said:


> Uhhhhh i cant wait to see it done, i havent been working on mine due to not having time to do so. Does the tile leveler have a mold preventor in it?, i had my husband look all over for the laticrete brand but they all had the mold prevention stuff.


Thanks Devanny! This does not have any mold inhibitors in it (at least it's not advertised that way). From what I can tell its mostly just portland cement with some elasticizers in it. My other one has been up for a while with no problems. I'm getting lots of eggs from the azureus in that one.




Hayden said:


> Awesome job so far! I am about to build my first rock wall in a 20L for my bicolor group and this is really inspiring and helpful. One question though, where do I find the foam for the rocks? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.


Thanks! I'm an Oracle DBA/Web Developer/Graphic Artist so I'm around a lot of servers and stuff. This foam is used heavily in shipping of computer parts and servers. I'd say go to Circuit City, Best Buy, etc and see if they have any in the back. Most places just toss it. I have a HUGE garbage bag of the stuff saved up. I have an "in" with some of the guys at our server farm. haha!




DenZ0r said:


> Looks nice! What are you going to put in there?
> I like the rock thing idea!
> Grtz


Thanks! I have a small group of leucs that I'm planning to put in this tank.




Corpus Callosum said:


> Do you think it might be easier to do the rock wall outside the tank and then silicone it in? I'm about to try this on a new tank I'm setting up and can't decide whether to make them inside the tank or not.


While I'm sure this could be done I really don't think it would be easier. I can think of reasons you might want/need to do it that way. One difficulty I can see just getting it to fit across the back of the tank. You will have to leave a gap on either side by doing that. That may not be a big deal for you but that just something to consider.




Amphiman said:


> I like it...But you pretty much have to go brom-less with a rock wall right?


Thanks! As stated in the following post the bromeliads can certain hold onto this stuff on their own. The only difficulty would getting them to start on their own. I'm actually putting some small plastic toothpics in the back wall of this one so that I will have something to anchor them on. I'll just cover them with some concrete and you'll never know it's there.


----------



## MD_Frogger

Wow!!! That is awesome. I was going to do the back ground in my 29 gallon with great stuff(had already bought it and everything) but I was so inspired by your work I went to Michaels and picked up some styrofoam sheets and then to Lowe's to get the laticrete! What do you use to get the styrofaom to stick to the glass and what how did you mix and apply the laticrete? Thanks for the great idea!


----------



## melas

MD_Frogger said:


> Wow!!! That is awesome. I was going to do the back ground in my 29 gallon with great stuff(had already bought it and everything) but I was so inspired by your work I went to Michaels and picked up some styrofoam sheets and then to Lowe's to get the laticrete! What do you use to get the styrofaom to stick to the glass and what how did you mix and apply the laticrete? Thanks for the great idea!


Thanks! That's pretty cool that you changed your mind like that! The foam you got from Michael's is probably not the same stuff though it will probably work just fine. I used a hot glue gun (and LOTS of glue sticks) to fasten everything to the glass. You just need to have a dense foam with open cells. This is so that the laticrete can "soak in" and form a firm bond with the foam. You'll want to make sure you cut all of the faces of the foam that will come into contact with the laticrete so that the open cells are . . . open. The stuff I used is similar to the pool "noodles" that are available in the summer months. 

Just mix the laticrete with water. Do small "batches" at a time. This is something I really learned from the first try. It becomes firm VERY fast. By doing small batches you can take your time and really work each area. The first coat is put on very thin (see the pictures I posted at the top of this thread). The second and third coats are significantly thicker. I just used my hands and smeared it around. I really don't know of a tool that would do a better job of spreading it than your hands! It's messy but it all comes off with water (unlike the great stuff!).


----------



## MD_Frogger

You're right this foam is not pliable like the noodle foam. It's dense yet very porous. What do you mean by cut the foam? Is that how you made the rock shapes? Or did you just break the foam to shape it? Also when applying the laticrete do I keep the tank on it's back so the rocks are veritcal or do I keep them sitting up horizontal?


----------



## melas

yeah I use a knife to cut the foam into shapes. i also use a torch to melt the edges and pit the foam. the key is to do everything "randomly" so it doesn't look like you cut it. If you use a torch be sure to do it outside as the fumes are pretty bad for you! I can't "break" my foam as it is not brittle at all. I turn my tank any way I need in order to get the laticrete in all of the crevices etc. The first coat is a lot easier since it is so runny. I just keep the tank on its back until I get to a spot that I can't see/reach.


----------



## MountaineerLegion

Melas - I've been following all these "rock/stone" threads for awhile. Could you post a closeup of the foam to show the porosity of it? I've been trying the blue R5 foam at Lowes and while it works, I'm really worried about the concrete chipping off given that the foam has such tiny pores. Thanks for the post.

MountaineerLegion




melas said:


> yeah I use a knife to cut the foam into shapes. i also use a torch to melt the edges and pit the foam. the key is to do everything "randomly" so it doesn't look like you cut it. If you use a torch be sure to do it outside as the fumes are pretty bad for you! I can't "break" my foam as it is not brittle at all. I turn my tank any way I need in order to get the laticrete in all of the crevices etc. The first coat is a lot easier since it is so runny. I just keep the tank on its back until I get to a spot that I can't see/reach.


----------



## melas

I'll try to post a detail pic of what I have later tonight but this link should help. I'm pretty sure this is the same stuff.

Polyethylene Foam, Roll, Tubes, Polyethylene Closed Cell Foam Sheets


----------



## MD_Frogger

melas said:


> I'll try to post a detail pic of what I have later tonight but this link should help. I'm pretty sure this is the same stuff.
> 
> Polyethylene Foam, Roll, Tubes, Polyethylene Closed Cell Foam Sheets


Thanks so much for taking the time out to outline how I should go about replicating your idea! The foam sheets I have look identical to the ones on this link. Hopefully it works out well for me when I get some time to work on it. Looking forward to seeing your finished viv.


----------



## melas

MountaineerLegion said:


> Melas - Could you post a closeup of the foam to show the porosity of it?



Here you go!










and just to give you an idea of the density


----------



## melas

Okay here's the update after coat #2!


----------



## Devanny

Wow, better than mine....now i feel like tearing mine down and re doing it lol


----------



## melas

Devanny said:


> Wow, better than mine....now i feel like tearing mine down and re doing it lol



Nah not better . . . just different! Hey the cool thing about this stuff is that you can always add to it no matter where you are in the process! If there was something you wanted to change just glue some of the foam to concrete where you want to add some. Then just cover it and tie it into the existing concrete. I think yours looks great! The funny thing is that most of these backgrounds get covered up by plants anyhow . . . haha! Have you made any more progress?

Matt


----------



## RedEyeTroyFrog

i think about that all the time.... im like ok im putting all this time and effort in these backgrounds and the plants usually cover the majority of them up!!.... but i guess its the small things and attention to detail that really make the tank look nice, - Your tank looks really good by the way keep it up
-T


----------



## Nillocean

Wow, that looks great Melas!! Got a question for ya. Are you gonna have water running on the wall? If so, how do you keep it sealed? I made a water fall out of foam and portland fine, looked awesome, but it just started to erode and eventually most of the concrete just was gone. Does this laticrete seal itself? Waterproof? Once again, looks freaking AWESOME!!!


----------



## pilo0024

HX talked alot about adding Acrylic copolymer to the mix in a 1/3 or 1/4 ratio with the water. It helps the cement stay strong. Some people also use epoxy to seal it but if you use the Acrylic copolymer i don't think it would ever erode.


----------



## melas

Nillocean said:


> Wow, that looks great Melas!! Got a question for ya. Are you gonna have water running on the wall? If so, how do you keep it sealed? I made a water fall out of foam and portland fine, looked awesome, but it just started to erode and eventually most of the concrete just was gone. Does this laticrete seal itself? Waterproof? Once again, looks freaking AWESOME!!!


Thanks guys! I actually applied the final coat last night. It's curing in some vinegar water as I type this. A few more days and then I'll be able to paint it. I have all the plants lined up and ready to go for when it's done!

I'm not planning on having any water. I had water in all of my previous terrariums and I've actually been moving away from it. The frogs don't ever seem to use it and I think it just makes maintenance a lot more cumbersome. Also, I think having waterfalls with glass tops makes the terrarium way too wet and the plants all start to rot out. 

I will say that I don't think this stuff will erode if used for a waterfall. The key is to cure the wall UNDERWATER. It becomes VERY hard. The Laticrete has some polymers etc in it already for flexibility and with the open celled foam it has a very strong bond. Also, if you are going to have a waterfall you could get a concrete sealer and just apply it to the areas that will be wet. I wouldn't apply it to the entire wall as it will get a glossy/wet appearance. That shouldn't matter in areas that will be underwater. Good luck!


----------



## melas

I just realized I lied! Haha! I forgot that there is a small pool in the front left corner. I'm just going to fill that with water and put some anubias in it or something. This really has nothing to do with the waterfall question but I felt compelled to clear it up! ha!


----------



## pilo0024

Melas quick question: how do you go about cleaning up all the cement that gets on other parts of the glass, or do you just leave it and cover it up?


----------



## melas

pilo0024 said:


> Melas quick question: how do you go about cleaning up all the cement that gets on other parts of the glass, or do you just leave it and cover it up?


It's funny I just had a PM about this last night . . . I have included that reply below . . . 

"A razor blade and a little elbow grease! Good luck! The biggest thing is to not let a lot build up on the bottom. I just thin it out with water so that when it dries it's really crumbly. The razor blade does wonders with relatively little work. "

Matt


----------



## pilo0024

it's amazing how useful a razor blade can be. keep up the good work.


----------



## melas

pilo0024 said:


> it's amazing how useful a razor blade can be. keep up the good work.


okay so here are some before and after shots of the glass "clean up"


----------



## melas

okay so i'm done . . . i have everything pretty well documented except for the end of the painting . . . sorry!

this is a shot of the painting. this is the black "wash". you want to make the paint very thin with water and then wipe/paint it on.









here is the same area with the wash being "wiped" off. you can see that the crevices keep the black paint.



























And here are some shots of the finished product . . . I applied some more layers of paint to "brighten up" the really dark areas of the rock. I did not thin out my paint enough so it ended up being really dark. I just mixed up some paint to have the same color as the cement and just lightened it up. I then mixed in some other colors for variation.




























i was going to put my leucs in here but i decided to put my pair of azureus in here instead the leucs got the bigger terrarium i did previously


----------



## cani

Maybe I missed it but I'm not sure how your attaching the foam to the tank. Are you using sillicon to attach the foam?

The tank looks great by the way.
Thanks

Cani


----------



## Nillocean

What kind of paint are you using melas?


----------



## Devanny

I knew it was going to be a good looking tank but it turned out amazing! i need to get on with mine and add a few extra pieces of foam to it aswell....if only i had the time, putting ppl in jail takes way too much tank building time lol.


----------



## kisanjong

great looking tank  - you made it look so easy


----------



## Sarkany

Wow... looking great... the more I see of these rock wall tanks, the more I want to make one myself. 

(Be wary of the Asplenium fern though, because these things get really big. That goes for the Nephrolepis as well; had one whose leaves were almost 4 feet long.)


----------



## kisanjong

Sarkany said:


> had one whose leaves were almost 4 feet long.)


lol Thanks for the tip


----------



## melas

cani said:


> Maybe I missed it but I'm not sure how your attaching the foam to the tank. Are you using sillicon to attach the foam?
> 
> The tank looks great by the way.
> Thanks
> 
> Cani


Hotglue gun


----------



## melas

Devanny said:


> I knew it was going to be a good looking tank but it turned out amazing! i need to get on with mine and add a few extra pieces of foam to it aswell....if only i had the time, putting ppl in jail takes way too much tank building time lol.


I'm sorry Devanny but the protection of the american public should NEVER come before terrarium builds! You need to get your priorities straight! haha!


----------



## melas

Nillocean said:


> What kind of paint are you using melas?


Just craftstore non-toxic acrylic paint.


----------



## scream-aim-fire

what kind of paint do you use on the cement? and also the foam that you use, where are you getting it?


----------



## melas

Cut from previous posts on this thread . . .



melas said:


> Just craftstore non-toxic acrylic paint.





melas said:


> I'm an Oracle DBA/Web Developer/Graphic Artist so I'm around a lot of servers and stuff. This foam is used heavily in shipping of computer parts and servers. I'd say go to Circuit City, Best Buy, etc and see if they have any in the back. Most places just toss it. I have a HUGE garbage bag of the stuff saved up. I have an "in" with some of the guys at our server farm. haha!


----------



## thedude

man that thing is awesome looking! looks like your azureus doesnt like the whole "terrestrial" thing haha


----------



## SMenigoz

Fantastic tutorial--followed it eagerly! Seems like something most of us "regulars" could accomplish.
With the final picture I have to admit I was disappointed though...too much of the rock wall is covered with plants! The plants or the wall, the plants or the wall...tough decision.
Scott


----------



## PingKing

nice work, looks really real.


----------



## melas

SMenigoz said:


> Fantastic tutorial--followed it eagerly! Seems like something most of us "regulars" could accomplish.
> With the final picture I have to admit I was disappointed though...too much of the rock wall is covered with plants! The plants or the wall, the plants or the wall...tough decision.
> Scott


Yeah, Scott I struggled with that. On the way to Hamburg on Saturday Philsuma brought that up to me as well. One thing I can say is that the picture really does not show as much rock as is actually visible. The branch with the Tilandsias on it is actually going from the back corner to the front corner. You can see behind it to the rock wall from either side of the terrarium. I'll have to go and take some shots of the tank from oblique angles. 

That said I will admit that I am woefully ignorant of the finer arts of plant cultivation/planting. That's something I'm really trying to work on. These plants were all in the terrarium previously so I figured I'd stuff them in there again. I'll have to see if there is something I can "let go" . . .haha! Thanks for the constructive criticism! I really do appreciate it! 

PS - Those are your azureus in that tank! They've been doing VERY well for me and I've gotten a TON of froglets off of them! Thanks again!


----------



## loogielv

yup. looks sahweet. i too am in the IT industry and never even considered using that foam. Never even crossed my mine. Thanks for the tip!

Also, i heard somewhere that hotglue is toxic to fish,animals? any idea if that's true? if so, what about misting and condensation running down past the hot glue and seeping into the plants, water, waterfalls, etc?


----------



## clwatkins10

Nice. I keep getting the urge to make one of these rocks walls.


----------



## melas

loogielv said:


> yup. looks sahweet. i too am in the IT industry and never even considered using that foam. Never even crossed my mine. Thanks for the tip!
> 
> Also, i heard somewhere that hotglue is toxic to fish,animals? any idea if that's true? if so, what about misting and condensation running down past the hot glue and seeping into the plants, water, waterfalls, etc?


Yeah it's pretty widely used for computer component packaging . . . if you get a hold of it take all you can! I've actually had several people contact me offering to buy it! 

My hot glue sticks say right on the bag that they are non-toxic. It's on the back of the bag in small print. I would assume that non-toxicity extends to animals as well. I've had frogs in my first rock-wall tank for more than 6 months now. I've gotten about 50 froglets out of those frogs in that time as well . . . all healthy. Works for me!


----------



## loogielv

if it works for you, it works for me!

let me ask you, is that the porous foam? Not the styro-foam that comes in Dell and other pc boxes? Not the one that crumbles into those little itty bitty balls right?

I have about 40 lbs of that stuff sitting in my office right now.

The porous foam that water could run right through i haven't seen in a while, what with the economy and all, we aint buying much that comes w/ that


----------



## melas

I'm guessing you hadn't seen this earlier in the thread. It reminds me of the foam used for "pool noodles". I get it mostly from the IBM servers we get in. I'm not sure how well the regular Styrofoam you get from dell pc packaging would work. I think Devanny used that originally with her rock wall. I believe she is currently redoing that one. I'm not sure of the specifics but you might want to check with her as to why she didn't like it. Good luck!



melas said:


> Here you go!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and just to give you an idea of the density


----------



## loogielv

oh yah, i did see that. sorry.


----------



## melas

No worries! Be sure to post your results if you try it!


----------



## ggazonas

Looks great. I am thinking about doing a partial rock wall in one of my vivs, what type of cement did you use? And I am assuming you haven't had any problems with it contaminating the water with the frogs?


----------



## melas

No problems here! Just be sure to cure the concrete and then neutralize it with vinegar!



melas said:


> Here is the "stuff" I've been using for all of my rock work. I got a few questions about it last time so I figured I'd just show you. Go to the tile section at Lowe's. It's like $10 and will go a pretty long way!


----------



## asch803

just checked Lowes website and they have similar stuff, Laticrete Mega Bond Thin-Set Mortar (Grey). Is that the same stuff? Looks like HD doesn't carry it. Really looks cool and of course i'm seeing it 1 day late. I just used great stuff all along the back of my tank (an 18x18x18 cube) and was going to actually silicone pieces of slate to the great stuff and then around the peices of slate put either coco fiber or treefern fiber. Seems so amateur compared to this. wonder if i could use the Laticrete over the great stuff - after i shape and contour the great stuff a little (or a lot)?? Could that work?

Thanks!

Andy


----------



## melas

asch803 said:


> just checked Lowes website and they have similar stuff, Laticrete Mega Bond Thin-Set Mortar (Grey). Is that the same stuff? Looks like HD doesn't carry it. Really looks cool and of course i'm seeing it 1 day late. I just used great stuff all along the back of my tank (an 18x18x18 cube) and was going to actually silicone pieces of slate to the great stuff and then around the peices of slate put either coco fiber or treefern fiber. Seems so amateur compared to this. wonder if i could use the Laticrete over the great stuff - after i shape and contour the great stuff a little (or a lot)?? Could that work?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Andy


The Laticrete Mega Bond Thin-Set Mortar should work (it's not the same stuff) though you will want to make sure that it does not contain mold inhibitors! 

I do not believe it will stick very well to great stuff foam. The foam that I used is very porous. In my experience the great stuff foam is not porous but instead very dense. I would just cut out the great stuff foam and glue the foam that I use to the glass of the tank.


----------



## tison 30

Does that concrete stuff work on reg Styrofoam like you get when you buy a new TV or something? How much of what did you mix, i don't think i saw it anywhere.


----------



## melas

tison 30 said:


> Does that concrete stuff work on reg Styrofoam like you get when you buy a new TV or something? How much of what did you mix, i don't think i saw it anywhere.


Personally I have no experience using that type of foam for rock walls. I know Devanny has a thread where she started using that stuff. I know that she has since given up on it and went back to the great stuff and cocoa fiber - You'd want to talk to her on the pros and cons. What I DO know is that it does not have the pores like the polyethylene foam so it will probably not form as solid a bond. Also, Ed mentioned that polystyrene may leach styrene (an endocrine disruptor) into the concrete and possibly into your tank inhabitants. This would necessitate the use of a concrete sealer - not really a bad thing but it will make your rocks look "shiny" and possibly artificial.

As far as the mix it's really just a general consistency you are shooting for - the first coat (with the polyethylene foam) should be pretty runny so that it will invade all of the pores. The subsequent coats should be thicker so that you can mold and sculpt the concrete. I used the laticrete and water. Add the water slowly so that you don't go too thin - of course if you do you can always add more laticrete. Good luck!


----------



## MarcNem

Let me start off by congratulating you on your tank. It really looks wonderful. Seems like we both suckers for aesthetics. Sometimes I wonder if I am more interested in the tanks or the frogs. LOL. 
I pan to construct a rather large show tank soon, and I plan to implement a combination of your method and several others in the construction.

Great job, keep up the work.

Oh, do you think the paint will eventually ware off in a high humidity, wet, environment?


----------



## melas

MarcNem said:


> Let me start off by congratulating you on your tank. It really looks wonderful. Seems like we both suckers for aesthetics. Sometimes I wonder if I am more interested in the tanks or the frogs. LOL.
> I pan to construct a rather large show tank soon, and I plan to implement a combination of your method and several others in the construction.
> 
> Great job, keep up the work.
> 
> Oh, do you think the paint will eventually ware off in a high humidity, wet, environment?


Thanks for the kind words! As far as the paint . . . I'm sure it WILL wear off over time but by then it should have some "natural" color of it's own. I should get some update pics of my first rock wall - it is now covered with all types of mosses and ferns. The paint is really just to give an immediate look but over time it will develop a look all it's own. Good luck with your project! If you are thinking of a large wall you may want to consider using some sort of wire mesh for support. I don't know much weight hot glue will really support. Thanks again!

Matt


----------



## Julio

how did you clean up the glass, with a razor blade?


----------



## melas

Julio said:


> how did you clean up the glass, with a razor blade?


Yeah just a razor blade. It was pretty easy too!



melas said:


> okay so here are some before and after shots of the glass "clean up"


----------



## Devanny

I havent given up on mine I just have to get back into it, since my accident I havent had time to work on anything but I still plan on finishing it all I have left is to test the ph and paint then the real fun begins .

Any updates on yours Matt?


----------



## melas

Devanny said:


> I havent given up on mine I just have to get back into it, since my accident I havent had time to work on anything but I still plan on finishing it all I have left is to test the ph and paint then the real fun begins .
> 
> Any updates on yours Matt?


Oh? Sorry I must have misunderstood! I thought you said you went with the cocoa fiber method instead (I guess you had been referring to another setup)! Good to hear you are staying the course! I'm telling you the paint makes ALL the difference! Not much going on with mine. I'm thinking after Christmas I might hit up some of these plant folks and get some "REAL" terrarium plants instead of all the stuff i'm getting from my local greenhouse. I'm thinking of some small broms etc - I want to be sure that you can see the rock wall though!


----------



## Devanny

Yeah it was actually my imis tank that I gutted and wanted to re do it wih a rock background but I went with the foam/coco instead.
Your tank would look good with some nice Neo boms, altho it does look pretty good now.

Tison, the styrofoam will work too but you might need to do several extra layers of concrete/mortar....i did 7 or 8.


----------



## melas

Devanny said:


> Yeah it was actually my imis tank that I gutted and wanted to re do it wih a rock background but I went with the foam/coco instead.
> Your tank would look good with some nice Neo boms, altho it does look pretty good now.


Ah gotcha now! Yeah neo's are def on the list! My new year's resolution will be to get a freaking clue with the plants! Haha!


----------



## ChrisK

Devanny said:


> Tison, the styrofoam will work too but you might need to do several extra layers of concrete/mortar....i did 7 or 8.


from start to finish, how long would it be before a tank like that is ready for frogs?


----------



## clwatkins10

Sorry if I missed it, but did you use a polymer in your cement? Did you just mix it with water and let it dry? Do you think that your cement would be stronger the the same brand grout?(I would guess so)
Thanks


----------



## melas

ChrisK said:


> from start to finish, how long would it be before a tank like that is ready for frogs?


Oops! Sorry didn't see this post . . . I'd say allow a month - it doesn't really take that long - there's just a lot of sitting and waiting for curing etc. I only did 3 coats of concrete.


----------



## melas

clwatkins10 said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but did you use a polymer in your cement? Did you just mix it with water and let it dry? Do you think that your cement would be stronger the the same brand grout?(I would guess so)
> Thanks


I didn't ADD any polymers but I'm pretty sure that this stuff had polymers in it. Honestly next time I do this I'm going to just use straight up portland cement and water. I can't recommend it as I've never done it but it think it work fine! Good luck!

Matt


----------



## clwatkins10

Was it a little flaky after your first coat?


----------



## melas

In areas where I spread it a little thin it would flake off. You want that first layer to be more watery than subsequent coats but it should still be applied liberally if you know what I'm saying.


----------



## melas

So get this - I was driving home from dinner out with the wife tonight and I passed a dumpster in an alley FULL of the polyethylene foam like I used for this tank . . . hahah! I slammed on the brakes (and nearly scared my wife to death) and pulled up next to it. I stuffed my back seat and trunk with as much of it as I could fit in. As I was raiding the dumpster a cop drove by - I just waved and kept digging . . .haha. I'm sick . . .


----------



## clwatkins10

Question:
When do you know that you are _too_ into the frog hobby?

Answer:


melas said:


> So get this - I was driving home from dinner out with the wife tonight and I passed a dumpster in an alley FULL of the polyethylene foam like I used for this tank . . . hahah! I slammed on the brakes (and nearly scared my wife to death) and pulled up next to it. I stuffed my back seat and trunk with as much of it as I could fit in. As I was raiding the dumpster a cop drove by - I just waved and kept digging . . .haha. I'm sick . . .


----------



## melas

haha - I ACTUALLY considered doing that for my original post . . . haha! yeah addictions will bring you to new lows . . .


----------



## harrywitmore

Great wall! Any updated pictures?


----------



## melas

harrywitmore said:


> Great wall! Any updated pictures?


Thanks! No updates - it looks pretty much the same. I'm actually getting ready to get some new neo broms to put it in it - i'll be removing some of the other plants when i do this - i'll post some updates then!


----------



## frogsanddogs

Thinking about finally getting around to trying one of these and I have a question... I have noticed most of these threads on rock wall construction mention using hot glue to glue the styrofoam to the glass. Is there a reason people do not use silicone? I always have a few other tanks and projects needing silicone that I seem to be able to use a tube whenever I open one and I have tons of extra tubes around the house, so hate to have to go buy a hot glue gun & hot glue if silicone works just as well..... but thinking there must be some reason people are going this route instead.... can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.
PS... you did an awesome job on this and thanks for all of the build details... very helpful!


----------



## melas

frogsanddogs said:


> Thinking about finally getting around to trying one of these and I have a question... I have noticed most of these threads on rock wall construction mention using hot glue to glue the styrofoam to the glass. Is there a reason people do not use silicone? I always have a few other tanks and projects needing silicone that I seem to be able to use a tube whenever I open one and I have tons of extra tubes around the house, so hate to have to go buy a hot glue gun & hot glue if silicone works just as well..... but thinking there must be some reason people are going this route instead.... can anyone enlighten me? Thanks.
> PS... you did an awesome job on this and thanks for all of the build details... very helpful!


Well I will say that the hot glue is convenient for several reasons. It dries very quickly (seconds) and bonds very well. It will actually melt the polyethylene foam on contact and I imagine that helps to form a very secure bond. Also, glue sticks are cheap (I bought a bag of 100 for less than $10. Hot glue doesn't need to cure, it leaves no odor, and it's easy to clean up! After using hot glue for this and having had experience with silicone in other areas - I would never even attempt it. Also, I don't know how well the silicone would adhere to the foam - that's something that would need to be tested out. Also, silicone has a shelf life and does not seem to do well on the shelf once it's been opened. For those reasons I would recommend the hot glue. If you try the silicone please report your results though! I'd definitely be interested to see what you come up with!

Thanks for the compliments and you are most welcome!


----------



## divingne1

I used hot glue to glue the syrofoam pieces together and it worked really well. If you do a rock wall, I have all the concrete material you could want so don't go buy any. Just get it from me.
Candy


----------



## dannyces

hello i have a guestion about how to "cure" this stuff?? i keep reading it should cure underwater do you actually put it in a tub and fill it up or do you just keep spraying it with water for a few days???????????????


----------



## melas

dannyces said:


> hello i have a guestion about how to "cure" this stuff?? i keep reading it should cure underwater do you actually put it in a tub and fill it up or do you just keep spraying it with water for a few days???????????????


Well if you are asking what I do then - yes - I allow my concrete to cure completely submerged. With glass aquariums I just fill them to the top with water - easy. With the exoterras I just sit them on their backs in a pan so that the concrete is submerged. On my latest rock wall I am attaching the wall to egg crate and building it outside the terrarium. 

That said . . . you don't HAVE to do it that way. It just needs to be wet. Whether you use wet towels or constant spraying etc is up to you. I just find it easier to cover it with water and be done with it! Good luck!


----------



## kawickstrom

melas said:


> If you try the silicone please report your results though! I'd definitely be interested to see what you come up with!


Hey matt I used silicone on foam in my ball python cage. It does stick but not very well. It holds up to the snakes, but if you catch an edge of it it will all peel off. I used it in there just in case they decide to crap on it. I can peel it off and put done another patch. Its not humid in their cage so I dont know how it will hold up to a humid enviroment but I thought I would share my exprience with it.


----------



## melas

kawickstrom said:


> Hey matt I used silicone on foam in my ball python cage. It does stick but not very well. It holds up to the snakes, but if you catch an edge of it it will all peel off. I used it in there just in case they decide to crap on it. I can peel it off and put done another patch. Its not humid in their cage so I dont know how it will hold up to a humid enviroment but I thought I would share my exprience with it.


Thanks Keith! That's pretty much how I envisioned it going but I had no experience so I didn't want to say it for sure!


----------



## dannyces

thanks for the reply matt i didnt think about wet towels thats a great idea. the tank i am making will not be able to be completly underwater so i think that will really work out great. i am getting close to that part and i am gonna post some pics ill keep you updated thanks for the help
Danny


----------



## melas

dannyces said:


> thanks for the reply matt i didnt think about wet towels thats a great idea. the tank i am making will not be able to be completly underwater so i think that will really work out great. i am getting close to that part and i am gonna post some pics ill keep you updated thanks for the help
> Danny


Yep no problem! Good luck and I'm anxious to see how it turns out!


----------



## clwatkins10

hows bout an update man?


----------



## melas

clwatkins10 said:


> hows bout an update man?


Haha! I've got nothing to show really. I'm still trying to get some new broms and plants. When it warms up here I will DEFINITELY be getting some stuff - you won't be able to stop my from posting pics then!


----------



## jelly_shrimp

Could I make a "bridge" with this? So in other words have the back covered and at close to the left or right part of the back, make a long clump about 3in thick, and like 8in long come completely off the wall and connect to the side? Almost like a piece of artificial driftwood or an arc. Do you think that would work?? Because if so, I am definately getting some of that magical JUICE!!!!!! just go with it, don't argue...


----------



## Ziggi

This is crazy beautiful! Great job!


----------



## ZeFrog

Thanks for the link to this thread, I will definitely be making use of it. This one describes the painting of the concrete more in detail than your previous thread.


----------



## melas

Okay so here it is now - I've re-planted it and it's now housing my Pygmy Chams - more pics of them here - http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lounge/41751-pygmy-chams.html#post369856


----------



## alluringeli

Hey Matt 
That came out really nice. I enjoyed the step by step pictures. Hey now you can start on a small viv for the baby with its own frogs lol and dont forget to get the baby a mads meet shirt....


----------



## melas

alluringeli said:


> Hey Matt
> That came out really nice. I enjoyed the step by step pictures. Hey now you can start on a small viv for the baby with its own frogs lol and dont forget to get the baby a mads meet shirt....


Haha! Thanks! Yeah I'll definitely have to get the new kid a MADS shirt! Haha! That would be soooo . . . geeky?


----------



## alluringeli

Dont worry we"ll be right there behind you getting one for ours too. The Mads babies lol.... 



melas said:


> Haha! Thanks! Yeah I'll definitely have to get the new kid a MADS shirt! Haha! That would be soooo . . . geeky?


----------

