# How Long can Frogs survived in the mail?



## charoozz520 (Dec 8, 2008)

So guys I am in panic mood at the moment, I recently ordered a group of Mantellas which the seller shipped out today, I asked for Saturday delivery and if that isn't possible then to ship it next week. The seller said it should be no problem, but now that I am tracking the package...fedex shows it not being delivered till Monday!! I called fedex and they are unwillingly to do anything because I was not the sender. It's an extra $16 for saturday delivery which I will GLADLY paid to ensure they get here safe but I have not heard back from the seller and its already getting late here. What do you guys think are the chances of them surviving till Monday if this doesn't get fix? My heart is breaking just thinking of those poor frogs


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

It will depend largely upon how they were prepared for shipping. If they did it properly, using an insulated box, and properly used Phase 22 panels, it shouldn't be a problem. Here's a thread for you. It turns out good in the end. 10 days in a box without issues!

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/68064-cheap-shipping-too-good-true.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/69949-phase-praise.html


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## charoozz520 (Dec 8, 2008)

Thank you. That gives me a bit more hope. I hope the guy responses to me and we don’t have to wait till Monday to find out...the package was marked for 10lbs so I hope that means it’s well insulated and packaged to the T.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Let us know how it turns out.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh, and too late this time, but next time you should always have frogs shipped, "HOLD AT LOCATION". This means they stay at the local hub, in a nice temperature controlled area, waiting for you to come get them. This would keep them off a hot, bouncy truck all day. Further, if your frogs are in your town right now, you could go get them instead of waiting till Monday. When I was breeding, it became my only method. If someone was too busy, or too lazy, to go get them, I can find a better home for them.
It's another very valuable shipping tool.


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## charoozz520 (Dec 8, 2008)

Noted for next time. Just wish if the seller knew it would had cost extra to ship for Saturday delivery to have notified me or held off till next week.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

charoozz520 said:


> Noted for next time. Just wish if the seller knew it would had cost extra to ship for Saturday delivery to have notified me or held off till next week.


It's a bit of a surprise to me to hear of any breeder offering Saturday delivery, as any delay in transit would mean that the package would be unavailable until Monday anyway. Most froggers I know would refuse to ship after Wednesday for that reason, but live and learn. Like everyone else that has posted, I hope that the frogs arrive no worse for the extra time in transit, and I anxiously await hearing the conclusion to your unfortunate experience.


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## charoozz520 (Dec 8, 2008)

To be honest now it just seems he was in a rush to sell them and get rid of them. He wanted to ship them yesterday but no one was home early today to accept the package so I asked for Saturday delivery or to ship it next week. 
He told me next week would be fine but then message me later saying he can do Saturday delivery...

Just don’t understand why he wouldn’t had contacted me first if it would had cost extra for Saturday delivery cause I would had paid for it. Or if he didn’t want to do that to just hold it off until Monday. 

I am just constantly refreshing my inbox hoping he would come online and respond. 

This is a hard lesson learned but I just pray the frogs will be okay. 

I will update everyone once I get them in. Thanks everyone for your help.


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## macuser (Oct 8, 2015)

i think youre going to get some amazing frogs and youre going to be very happy with them. at this point, we can only hope for the best. if things dont turn out the way we hope, you can start another thread and we can offer advise depending on what was guaranteed and what form of payment you used. there are too many variables to consider when answering the question "how long can frogs survive in the mail?" and most of those variables are already set in stone. 

does anyone have any advice on acclimating frogs after a longer than expected journey or would acclimation be the same? what is the recommended acclimation process?


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## charoozz520 (Dec 8, 2008)

Guys thank you all for your help and kind words. The seller finally reach back out to me and he is going to call fedex now. Fingers crossed everything goes accordingly!


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## Northstar (Dec 28, 2017)

Hey, there! I see you already have quite a few responses on the matter but I thought I'd add my two cents as well just in hopes that it might ease your fears a bit: At this point in time I have both received and sent out several shipments of frogs and there have been quite a few instances where my frog deliveries have gotten held up at the post office for whatever reason, but never once in all the instances that this has happened, have the frogs arrived dead or in poor condition. I even had one out for delivery in nearly 32 degree weather in the middle of a week of heavy snowfall that got held up for two days and I was certain that the poor things would arrive frozen. But much to my surprise, they ended up arriving safe and sound in spite of the harsh conditions. So, yes, as long as the frogs are packaged properly, even though it's not ideal, they should be perfectly fine getting held up an extra day or so during the shipping process


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## kayte (Sep 2, 2017)

How did everything turn out? Were you able to get them yesterday or are you waiting until tomorrow?


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## charoozz520 (Dec 8, 2008)

Hey Everyone, 
Sorry it was a crazy weekend, trying to get this frogs in safely.
They called the shipper Saturday morning saying there was no way for it to be delivered on Saturday. Then I saw it was located in New Jersey and spent the entire Saturday contacting and trying to pick up the package from FedEx which of course did not happen because the facility the package was located at did not have a pick up option.

Well they arrived today, I was greeted by what could only sound like someone tossing the package at my door, did not even buzz the doorbell. Which just made me even more angry.

But the good news is...all of them survived!!! They were package nicely and though look to be in bad shape should pulled through! They are currently in quarantine so I can make sure they are eating and healthy before I let them loose in their tank. I only snap a quick picture as I don't want to stress them anymore after their three day journey.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Just in case, I always use a temp gun on the inside of the package as soon as I open the box and I take a picture (of the temp gun above the box) with my cell phone and send it to the seller. That way, they know if there is an issue right away. If the temps are good, they have another data point as to how many Phase 22s to add, how the cooler worked, etc.

Mark


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Glad to hear it.
Anybody with any real experience shipping animals, knows that the package is very likely going to be dropped, tossed, and maybe even drop kicked.
This is actually the biggest reason that most frogs are packed in the smallest deli container possible.

DON'T REALLY DO THIS!!  Shake a thumbnail in a full sized, fly culture cup, with very little sphagnum, and he has an extremely rough trip, as he slams from side to side. It would be very easy to kill him. Put him in a tiny, 2 oz shipping cup the size of a chicken mcnugget dipping sauce, with some sphagnum and a live leaf or two, for cover, and it's a very different story. In a smaller container he can't reach a truly damaging velocity before hitting the wall. Plus, the sphagnum and leaves pad his cozy little deli cup. 

It sucks that every shipping company is regularly, overly rough with our packages, but a good frogger/shipper is prepared for that.
Again, I don't actually do this, but I could drop kick a box across the living room, and if I did my job right, they'll be just fine.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Encyclia said:


> Just in case, I always use a temp gun on the inside of the package as soon as I open the box and I take a picture (of the temp gun above the box) with my cell phone and send it to the seller. That way, they know if there is an issue right away. If the temps are good, they have another data point as to how many Phase 22s to add, how the cooler worked, etc.
> 
> Mark


That's exactly how I fine-tune my shipping techniques. I ask a lot of customers to do that for me/for the hobby, if they have a digital thermometer.

I'm not techy enough, but it would be cool to have a thermometer you could send with the package, that would record real-time temperatures all along the way.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Pumilo said:


> That's exactly how I fine-tune my shipping techniques. I ask a lot of customers to do that for me/for the hobby, if they have a digital thermometer.
> 
> I'm not techy enough, but it would be cool to have a thermometer you could send with the package, that would record real-time temperatures all along the way.


It definitely exists, Doug. I remember reading about a fish restaurant in Denver that ordered fresh fish almost daily and a temperature logger was standard equipment on all of their shipments. They were much more elaborately shipped and packaged than anything we do, but they checked the graph of the log as a way to verify quality in the fish. I would also like to put a sensor in that measures G-forces.

Mark


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> It definitely exists, Doug. I remember reading about a fish restaurant in Denver that ordered fresh fish almost daily and a temperature logger was standard equipment on all of their shipments. They were much more elaborately shipped and packaged than anything we do, but they checked the graph of the log as a way to verify quality in the fish. I would also like to put a sensor in that measures G-forces.


Temp is easy, and pretty cheap (<$40 each):

https://www.ibuttonlink.com/products/ds1921g

Note those are just data loggers, without a transmitter. They need to be retrieved and uploaded. PITA in a 1-way, 1-time ship...but should be possible in a repeat-business situation, esp if you stuck the logger in an easily-returned package. "Remove the hassle factor."

Never looked into accelerometers - not my thing. No doubt they're out there though. "How bad do you want it?" Ha ha ha - always the bottom line.

cheers


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