# Vivarium of the Month



## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Why don't we have this contest? I'd be willing to organize it if anyone else is interested/if the mods think it's okay to do. The winner could be displayed on the home page.


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## Vivexx (Nov 28, 2007)

ill play !


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## Almog (Sep 27, 2010)

Sure, sounds like a good opportunity to see some designed and well executed vivaria!


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

IMO PM Kyle about it when a big enough list of people are accumulated to participate and maybe it will be official!!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> IMO PM Kyle about it when a big enough list of people are accumulated to participate and maybe it will be official!!


Will do. 

If anyone would like to participate in the first one, post here to show your support.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I already tried to start that exact thing a while ago. There was a good amount of people interested but nothing really ever took off. It would be a cool addition to the board though.


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

I'd do it.


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## Zombie Frawg (Aug 31, 2010)

Count me in.


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## ryangreenway (Apr 30, 2010)

I think it'd be a cool thing to do, get it started!


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## frogbait (Aug 16, 2010)

Great idea!


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## revolution292004 (May 19, 2010)

Sounds great, I have just finished a new build and have a video only...Not yet mossed up but well seeded. I could do this in a couple months. Here is what I have so far. This is my second build. No build thread on this one either but here it is thus far. 

newdartdigstwo002.mp4 video by revolution292004 - Photobucket


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## aliciaface (Jul 11, 2010)

YES! im game


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm in, but I think that we should make some requirements to keep it interesting. For instance, basic construction methods (false bottom, hydroton, background style, etc...) should be provided as well as an attempt at a plant list. That way we can all learn something from it instead of simply choosing the prettiest picture. 

-Brett


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

btcope said:


> I'm in, but I think that we should make some requirements to keep it interesting. For instance, basic construction methods (false bottom, hydroton, background style, etc...) should be provided as well as an attempt at a plant list. That way we can all learn something from it instead of simply choosing the prettiest picture.
> 
> -Brett


That would probably take up way to much space... Maybe the winner could write something like that when they win though.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

edwing206 said:


> I already tried to start that exact thing a while ago. There was a good amount of people interested but nothing really ever took off. It would be a cool addition to the board though.


If we could get the sponsors to give some small rewards or something it would definitely catch on... But it seems like people would enter without an award anyways though.


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

I might be in, could whip together something small....

Contests are always fun!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

JoshH said:


> I might be in, could whip together something small....
> 
> Contests are always fun!


Doesn't need to be a new viv... Existing vivs are okay too.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Historically monthly was too frequent for contests. We are overdue for a contests though. 

We can run a Vivarium contest if that is what everyone is interested in this round.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

I think the best way to get it going would be to follow the format of reef centrals nano tank of the month threads. It involves an entry thread, which has a few rules, then a voting thread, and then a winners thread where details are shared. I suggest we condense it into an entry thread, then a voting thread with a poll involving all entries where once an established cut off point is reached the winner is asked to write an entry as a post within that thread.

Here are my suggestions for entry rules:
1) Must provide a FTS
2) Must Be Entered By XXXX
3) Voting will begin on XXXX and a winner will be chosen on XXXX
4) Must be a recent picture
5) Must state tank size, dimensions, and primary PDF/animal inhabitants (if any)

Here are the examples:

February 2011 nTOTM Contest Entries - Reef Central Online Community
March 2011 nTOTM - Nano Reef 34 Gallon - (Manochio) - Reef Central Online Community


We could do this every 2-6 months IMO. Not sure on what to say about repeat entries, perhaps if large changes are made or significant evolution is made in the vivarium (via plant growth) then they can re-enter?

PS: I don't necessarily think an official site run contest would be best, because much more would get accomplished if the process is handled via a pool of designated members. I think if we lay it all on an admin it may slow the process and lead to the death of the contest very quickly...


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## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

I'd be in for sure. Reward or no reward, it would be great to see others' vivs, the inspiration it could provide would be helpful to everyone. What about themes for certain contests? Full tank shots, smallest flower, biggest fungi, best action shot of frogs eating, etc...


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

the canadian likes the idea too...


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## amnesia (Jan 23, 2011)

boabab95 said:


> the canadian likes the idea too...


As does this Canadian.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

And this Canuck. 

There's more than one on here...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Hey guys, go back to Canadart where you came from!


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

More Canadian support here too!

I really like this idea. Also, as previously mentioned I think information would have to be provided on the tank after the winner is chosen. Basic stuff like inhabitants, plant list, materials used and a video tour of the tank would be great as well!


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## Cloudfish (Dec 3, 2007)

Great idea--I'd be willing to give it a shot.


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## kisozaza (Nov 4, 2010)

Yes please - its a worthwhile idea.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

What if the winner got a special 'subtitle' displayed under his/her name until the next contest?


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

So, I talked to Kyle and he posted a little in this thread. He wants the contest to be run at site-level, meaning he (or maybe other mods?) would have to organize it. Also, he's not sure if we could pull it off every month. Maybe it could be a bi-monthly sorta thing.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Mitch said:


> So, I talked to Kyle and he posted a little in this thread. He wants the contest to be run at site-level, meaning he (or maybe other mods?) would have to organize it. Also, he's not sure if we could pull it off every month. Maybe it could be a bi-monthly sorta thing.


*sigh* Mods will be mods


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

I used to check out Nano-Reefs.com (I'm sure some of the people who keep reefs here are members there as well) but they have a great Monthly Reef page which you guys should check out. Here's the link: Featured Reef Profiles - Nano-Reef.com

For you lazy people, they basically have the winning photo that was submitted as well as some additional angles. Then they talk a little about maintenance, guess that's not really necessary for us. Then fish, inverts and corals in our case frogs, microfauna and plants! They provide close-up pics of I guess the more interesting corals. Then they give the history of the tank with progression pictures and any major changes over time. To finish it off they end with some "Words of Wisdom" and acknowledgments which I think is very nice. 

I'd be thrilled if we could put something like this together, it would give new comers the advantage of being able to easily browse through some of the best vivs as well as important tips and most importantly some motivation and inspiration. Plus all the pros get to show off!


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## neonr0se (Feb 16, 2011)

Sounds like a great idea! 
I already have some tanks to nominate


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## inktomi (Nov 17, 2007)

I wouldn't say that maintence isn't imporant to cover in the featured tank writeups


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

FWIW, on nano-reef the users nominate the tanks and the moderators choose one each month that they feel represents an accomplishment in the hobby. That way you don't have to mess with polls and whatnot. Grown in/mature nanos are given more respect than freshly setup nanos with boatloads of rare corals, that kind of thing.

In this hobby, you wouldn't necessarily need to always choose big expensive display vivs, but maybe choose some that are more modest but are having luck breeding difficult frogs.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Ok, I need to talk to Kyle, but if he's for it, I'm willing to 'run' it. We need to decide some things:

1. How often? (every month, every 2 months, quarterly, etc)
2. How are winners chosen? (popular vote, my pick, etc)
3. Are we going to have differing rules that change each contest? (ie limit it to vert conversions one month, custom builds another, etc . . .)
4. Anything else?

I spoke with Josh (JoshsFrogs.com) - he's willing to donate a gift certificate to the winner.


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## inktomi (Nov 17, 2007)

What about also/instead having animals of the month? You could highlight a species that so-and-so is having great success with, and they could write up how they take care of them, tank specs, maintenance, misting, humidity, temps, etc etc.

Might be an interesting twist on "another densely planted display" that might include some interesting knowledge for people. You can keep almost all our frogs alive with nothing more than phothos and a cheap guzmainia


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I would think a basic explanation by the winner (size of tank, construction of, design, plantings, inhiabitants, etc) would cover everything pretty well. We have species-specific threads on the forum for people to talk about certain frogs, and work on care sheets.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

I wouldn't even have a prize. Actually I wouldn't even call it a contest. It's just a monthly showcase of a well built/maintained viv. At best maybe have a tag that goes beside the users name that says : January 2013 Vivarium of the month or something.

I also think if you limit it to a certain style every month you'll find that nominations drop off quickly


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

I think it would be good to somehow use this to bring out the best in amphibian vivarium design. It seems that for the most part there is a lot of repetition involved in dartfrog tanks. I'd like to see people start to push the envelope a little more and break some new ground. It would be inaccurate to say that we as a hobby have perfected the replication of natural amphibian or reptile habitats in an artificial system. How about every month recognize a vivarium design that has gone beyond just a beautiful display? I think this could foster new ideas, brainstorming, and experimentation that could lead to advances in the hobby. 

Time and time again I see the same bromo filled tanks, same backwalls, same corner waterfalls, same leaf litter. These vivs are all great, and pretty. But there are vivs out there that stand out for more than just asthetics. Maybe try something that "elitist" and old schoolers say isn't possible......

How about vivs done to replicate a specific habitat that is applicable to the species that they are keeping? Done using real research and photos/vids of habitats (like Ray/stemcellular posted).

Or vivs made that take a closer look into microhabitats, leaf litter piles, palm frond piles, boulder filled trickle systems for Ameegra, etc.

Just my thoughts on trying to push into uncharted territory, hobby wise


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

I like the idea of a contest, or even just a poll.

Would this only include tanks COMPLETED in the time frame? If so, then I think the choices would be slim if this was done every month. Every 2 or 3 months would have a much better turn out and there would be more submissions worthy of the top prize.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I'm all for 'pushing the envelope', as long as the well-being of the inhabitants are taken into consideration. I'm sure focus on a particular species, or care taken to provide region-accurate plants. I would think we'd leave selecting the winner up to a public poll.

I wouldn't think the contest would be limited to vivariums completed during a time frame - I know that would exclude a lot of people.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

GRIMM said:


> Would this only include tanks COMPLETED in the time frame? If so, then I think the choices would be slim if this was done every month. Every 2 or 3 months would have a much better turn out and there would be more submissions worthy of the top prize.


This is the exact reason why I think a contest is a bad idea. There shouldn't be a time frame at all, and having a freshly planted vivarium win would be the opposite of what this vivarium of the month thing should be about.


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## inktomi (Nov 17, 2007)

I'd vote that only established tanks (at least several months old) would be likely to win. The tanks that win on reef central are often several years old, and well grown in.

(just my 2 cents)


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Now that I think about it, since just about everybody does a tank thread in the members vivs section, I think it might be cool if someone picks an outstanding viv from the members section and sums up the thread and provides key pictures that really "show" the viv. 

Not as an alternate to this, but in addition. This way we can see some old jewels that may be buried deep into the depths of the forums...


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

All of these issues are solved if you let the moderators choose the tank versus having a poll. That saves them work and cuts down on drama.


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## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

i'd be interested but im right in the middle of revamping my viv right now and still needs some growing in to do.


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## inktomi (Nov 17, 2007)

One thing I'd say *against* having a public poll - that takes away your choices for "next months" tank *really fast* and you'll end up being forced into (a) not having a winner this month or (b) letting tanks win that are in some way not "up to par" for the winners. 

The way I'd suggest running it is to have a private forum where people can post people the tanks they feel should be Tank of the Month (or whatever). Only mods can read topics in the forum, but anyone can post into it. 

The mods each month choose a winner from the nominations - and contact that person directly. That person needs to be willing to provide more photos, along with a writeup of the tank and it's plants and animals. They send this back to the mod that contacted them, and it's published at the beginning of the next month as that month's winner. It's an honor to win this, so it shouldn't be hard to get more photos since it's probably the nice photos that got the tank nominated in the first place.

This way you'll have a lot of choices, and you don't limit yourself to needing to get nominations every month. You can always pull from a tank that you didn't choose a couple months ago if you don't get anything better this month.

While the "rules" as to what can/should be nominated are obviously best left lax, I would point out that the tank shouldn't have visible equipment inside it, and should be presented freshly cleaned without spots on the glass, etc. Being able to take decent photos of the tank and its animals should be, unfortunately, a requirement - simply because if you have a wonderful tank but you can't see through the clouded glass covered in slime mold and frog poop then who wants to read an article about that tank when it looks really bad?


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd say ask a mod to give you a monthly sticky, picky a "theme" (NOT timeframe) and just find 3-5 ACTIVE members to be judges.

Perhaps have a public poll to pick the judges....but I agree with others that a public poll on the "best viv of the month" may be off....I think its better to vote for our judges somehow and then just let 3-5 judges pick the winner each month..


Also, obvious to say but we'd need a different theme. perhaps only certain frogs, or certain environments (I could enter a Desert, Temperate, and Tropical locale contest for example), best water features, best grown out tanks, etc...I think time would be an awful criteria but other generic things could be...


the thing is you need a mod to give you a working sticky otherwise its too difficult to keep up with the posts.

Perhaps see if you can make a GALLERY for each months entrants for ease of viewing?


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Do we want to have monthly submissions, or just have submissions go into a pool of vivariums, from which winners can be chosen from down the road as well?


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

Make a monthly nomination thread IMO, but either could work. You might get bogged down with just one giant pool


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

That's my thoughts, but at the same time, I would hate to see some awesome vivaria not get recognized if they did not get submitted multiple times.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

If people think the vivs are worthy that shouldn't be a problem


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## Zooxan (Jan 30, 2011)

Take a look at reefcentral.com, and how they do their tank of the month. It was very well organized, and always looked forward to. If you could model the viv of the month after that, I think it would be a huge success.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

As I mentioned I'm open to the idea, have been sick for a week so am just catching up...

Please be aware that the reef community is simply huge so there is no shortage of submissions. While we have grown into a rather sizable community historically we have had issues supporting such frequent contests. We have thus run a few a year which has seemed to work. I'm open to a more aggressive contest offering but I think a repeated theme will wear out quickly. We also can not pass on the pumpkin contest that had to be one of the best ever and many people enjoy the photo contests. Maybe one possibility would be to run a few more contests but continuing with the varying themes?


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

I think this should be a separate contest in itself...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> I think this should be a separate contest in itself...


Agreed. 

Also a lot of good ideas are being thrown around here... I think the mods should have the final choice as you guys will probably be the ones running it. Unless you want me to run it


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## fishr (Dec 20, 2010)

It's a wonderful idea! Agreed too it should be a seperate contest on its own. The reward is just having hard work reconized by a community.  I don't think we need to involve the sponcers.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Bump... I'd love to see that home picture be changed to a vivarium of the month!


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

We run a Puffer of the Month here on the Puffer Forum (The Puffer Forum • The Puffer Fish Care Community) with a very small community and it works out fine. First 10 submissions are voted on. Then at the end of the year they take all 12 Puffer of the Month winners and vote on them for Puffer of The Year.

We just have a member that's active enough and trustworthy enough to run it, not a mod.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

If vivarium of the month turns out to be too much of a problem I wouldn't mind an "editors pick" where once a month they choose a viv that is significant in some way (i.e beautiful, a thought out biotope, new technology, or w/e). Then just write a little entry summarizing the viv, some good pictures, and an interview. (alla nano reef)


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

I am all for this idea. I just love looking at other peoples creations. Prize or no prize.
Here is a couple thoughts on other forums I have been on...On the photography forum I visit, the winner of the previous contest pics the winner of the current contest.

On a "classic car" forum I frequent they have a "tech week". Once per year all of the best submissions for technical "DIY" threads are pooled together.A winner is chosen and they have great prizes for the winners that are given to them by sponsors. This really encourages not only DIY projects in general but GREAT documentation as well. (Which is equally important IMO) This has really done wonders for the hobby in terms of innovation and the sponsors have been rewarded by selling more supplies.

Just a couple ideas...like I said I think it is a great idea either way.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

i think letting everyone vote would be better that would also let us see all the tanks but no voting for your tank


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Bump!

.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Please see my notes here:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/65352-vivarium-month-2.html#post570870

In short monthly is too frequent. Many times contests have few entries let alone monthly, which is why we try to mix it up theme wise. I'm all for an tank contest.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

kyle1745 said:


> Please see my notes here:
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/65352-vivarium-month-2.html#post570870
> 
> In short monthly is too frequent. Many times contests have few entries let alone monthly, which is why we try to mix it up theme wise. I'm all for an tank contest.


Oh okay. Could we have the next contest be a best vivarium sort of thing?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Sure we can run a tank contest, any thoughts on rules?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i think an important rule is that the tank should be set up for no less than 6 months. anyone can cram a tank full of tillys and orchids, but keeping them alive is another matter entirely.

james


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

I think the 6 month rule is a great suggestion. Plus if we only have 2 yearly contests it will work out quite well also.

As far as additional rule suggestions... 
I think larger pictures should be allowed. None of this 600 pixel max stuff like is past contests. That doesnt give enough detail to view some of the larger tanks here.
Also, I think up to 3 pictures should be allowed *if needed*. Also due to people's larger tanks. We dont need 3 views of a 20 gallon tank, but a 300 gallon is a different matter.

Im not sure how many other rules we really need. I think members need to have at least 20-50 posts before they are allowed to vote. Just to avoid people bringing all their facebook friends here to win. Other then that I think people will do a good job selecting the best tanks, which are visually pleasing and meet all the frogs needs. Lets get one started! I think this will be one of the most popular contests ever, cuz who here doesnt like to show off their tanks?!


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

Require only current pictures of the tank?


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

This thread is getting old but I'd be glad to put the idea out there once again...


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

Twice a year sounds good! I think less often with more participants makes it more fun. I think it'd even be fine at once a year!  A year to build a tank for the contest. The winner should be posted on the homepage, prize or no prize. I would love this!! I would make a tank just for this. And try really hard!

Please Kyle?


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Sounds like fun, even though my tank isn't that great, it's worth a shot.

when and how do we enter?


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## MrMonterrubio (Sep 29, 2011)

Count me in.


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## SNAKEMANVET (Dec 14, 2011)

I like the idea,hopefully be in the next one.


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

Nice idea! It could help push the envelope of creativity and/or lead to a whole new way of setting up a viv. Who knows what might surface once people take up the challenge.

Of course it goes without saying, whether the contestants focus their efforts towards the cosmetic or a matter of functionality the frogs well being are always paramount.

Oh, and I like the idea of once a year or perhaps twice.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Sounds like fun. But wait till February for the first one! lol


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

How about a viv of the yr for 2011?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

zBrinks said:


> Ok, I need to talk to Kyle, but if he's for it, I'm willing to 'run' it. We need to decide some things:
> 
> 1. How often? (every month, every 2 months, quarterly, etc)
> 2. How are winners chosen? (popular vote, my pick, etc)
> ...


Yeah I was thinking the same thing Kyle said that it would be too frequent....maybe it should be done quarterly.....like every 3 months or something.
Jan-March
April-June
July-Sept
Oct-Dec




> Originally Posted by zBrinks
> I would think a basic explanation by the winner (size of tank, construction of, design, plantings, inhiabitants, etc) would cover everything pretty well. We have species-specific threads on the forum for people to talk about certain frogs, and work on care sheets.


Size of the viv should not be a deciding factor at all in any competition cause we don't all have loads of money and some of these smaller vivs are just as good as the big ones.
Inhabitants shouldn't determine the winner also due to the fact that we all can't afford the more expensive species.
Another thing that would make things unfair would be additional gadgets like, misting systems, HerpKeeper, fancy lighting, ventilation systems, and all that jazzy stuff this also has to do with the fact not all of have the $ as some others do.
Plants should not be a deciding factor either cause with that comes with the fact that not all of use can afford all these orchids and rare plant species lol.
As long as requirements of temps, humidity...etc. is taken care of who cares if they are hand misting, making fixtures out of gutters, or siphoning there vivs by sucking water through the tubes using there mouth lol. Also 
Also I truly hope that the voting will be done for the vivarium alone and not the one building it. 
All these things taken into consideration would make it very fair.
Otherwise it would be like someone is buying the contest.

Deciding factors:
Just design, innovation(when it comes to the design and construction, not gadgets and whatnot), and accommodation to the species needs and requirements as well as the plants.

Winner selection:
People should enter their own vivs or members can submit vivs they think should be entered(I forget the word lol)
Make a poll
Then if a lot entries are made then have rounds to narrow the list down to about 10 or so.
1 vote per person of course.




As for a yearly competition...
I agree with B-NICE a build of the year would be awesome but really tho kinda unfair since most of us don't have the money to make such huge vivs and it would cool to kinda break it down in size categories to really make it fair if some sponsors would agree to doing multiple winners, like one winner per category and only first place would get a prize and the 2nd and 3rd can just get bragging rights lol. Cause tbh that's a lot to give away cause 3 or 4 categories and 3 prizes each that's like 9 or 12 prizes lol. If the sponsors could afford it the maybe not just the first place prize winner.
If not size categories then size should not be a deciding factor.

Deciding factors and winner selection same as above competition as well.


this is just my opinion on the matter and I think it's a pretty good one lol


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Size of the viv should not be a deciding factor at all in any competition cause we don't all have loads of money and some of these smaller vivs are just as good as the big ones.
> Inhabitants shouldn't determine the winner also due to the fact that we all can't afford the more expensive species.
> Another thing that would make things unfair would be additional gadgets like, misting systems, HerpKeeper, fancy lighting, ventilation systems, and all that jazzy stuff this also has to do with the fact not all of have the $ as some others do.
> Plants should not be a deciding factor either cause with that comes with the fact that not all of use can afford all these orchids and rare plant species lol....
> ...


sounds like the elements of a competition have been pretty much removed in this scenario.

why is this better than simply showing a "money shot" picture and leaving the specifics unknown? 

james


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

james67 said:


> sounds like the elements of a competition have been pretty much removed in this scenario.
> 
> why is this better than simply showing a "money shot" picture and leaving the specifics unknown?
> 
> james


I agree with just showing a pic and leaving specifics unknown.
No other influences like if someone has seen the build thread then they shouldn't base it upon what kinda gadgets or lighting and whatnot was used.

Winners should win just on what is visible excluding fans and evident misting nozzles or hoses, but including a list of inhabitants so whether or not it meets their needs and requirements can be addressed.
Also list what the daytime and nighttime temps cause that goes with meeting the needs and requirement. 
Also a member who knows about all the species of PDFs should determine whether or not the design, size, layout(Including deposition sites) and temps meets the needs of said species or if it is adequate. This will not declare a winner but would only be used to persuade voters. (forgot to mention that)

the elements of the competition weren't removed....
Nothing I said in that quote takes away from the competition.
If those things were allowed it would be like the person is buying the competition.
It should all about what is in the viv alone, just what can be seen, excluding any add ons like fans and whatnot. Just what can be seen.
The inhabitants should not be a factor except in the fact if how the viv is designed to meet their needs and requirements.
No plant list, no species list, no list of what is working behind the scenes should matter in the decision.

Take a pic of my viv as an example....minus the fan and the temp gauge. 
As you can see in the pic only what matters is really visible. 
If the light fixture was visible or signs of a misting system that should not matter in the decision. 
If I had say a pair of thumbnails then the placement of the film containers(deposition sites), can be considered cause it has to do with the requirements and needs of the species. 
The only thing that should be listed with the picture is: inhabitants, day and nighttime temps, deposition sites that can't be seen. Like how there is other film canisters on the left and right behind the angloanema and nephthytis on the lower back of the viv or have additional pics to show disposition sites. Cocohuts or hides would be included in this as well since they are disposition sites if they have petri dishes..









Anything can look good but how it meets the needs and requirements of the frogs matters as well.

I really think what I say makes a lot of sense
Agree or disagree is is up to you but I am not gonna sit here and debate it with you and go back and forth with each other.
This is my opinion and I will not force it upon anyone neither have their opinion forced upon me.
I will not be responding to any other post you make trying to challenge my opinions cause we can't all think alike and we are just gonna have to agree to disagree.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

You need to calm down dragon slayer.... Your acting like its going to be a completely unlevel playing field and trying to cater this "competion" around you. I think there should be a details on your viv, plants, and inhabitants. Im going to vote for the best looking viv doesnt matter if they have leucs or benedicta. It all comes down to how well you can design a viv. Cheers


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Agreed Dizzle, I don't have the most extravagant of collections but still think that including inhabitants/plant list/gadgetry info would be beneficial to everyone involved..... otherwise its just pictures with nothing to learn from them. 

IMO, the best way to organize it would be something like this: Start with a submission thread, each applicant puts down a picture and some relevant info. Since there will probably be a ton of contestants, the mods choose the top 10-15 from the submission thread and start a poll in a separate thread, which we vote from. 

That method does a few things-
-maximizes the amount of helpful info about plants/methods/equipment etc shared between everyone..... if we did it the same way as the pumpkin contest, a lot of this info would be missed, and would also clutter up further threads with plant ID questions, etc

-makes the voting process much more simple.... there will probably be way more contestants than the pumpkin contest, & fewer options in the final poll = less chance of an nth-way tie


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

tclipse said:


> Agreed Dizzle, I don't have the most extravagant of collections but still think that including inhabitants/plant list/gadgetry info would be beneficial to everyone involved..... otherwise its just pictures with nothing to learn from them.
> 
> IMO, the best way to organize it would be something like this: Start with a submission thread, each applicant puts down a picture and some relevant info. Since there will probably be a ton of contestants, the mods choose the top 10-15 from the submission thread and start a poll in a separate thread, which we vote from.
> 
> ...


that's what build journals are for....there is a whole section in the forms for that.
the only thing that is gonna be clogging up the entry threads is people listing a build journal as an entry.

Maybe posting a pic of said viv and then linking the build journal would be better. 
If people listed everything and whatnot the entry thread or emails would take forever to go through.

btw hopefully you wasn't agreeing with him on the part I'm trying to cater the competition around me....um I will not be entering.
Not for a long time.
I want it to be fair for everyone......this is not about me at all.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> btw hopefully you wasn't agreeing with him on the part I'm trying to cater the competition around me....um I will not be entering.
> Not for a long time.
> I want it to be fair for everyone......this is not about me at all.


Nah, was agreeing with this part-



Dizzle21 said:


> I think there should be a details on your viv, plants, and inhabitants. Im going to vote for the best looking viv doesnt matter if they have leucs or benedicta. It all comes down to how well you can design a viv. Cheers


At least on the reef forums, most people end up voting on the picture of the tank they see... (which is often affected by the quality of the photos, whether people like to admit it or not) not as much on inhabitants, plants, tank size, etc.... but it's still all relevant info IMO, I like to know what I'm looking at. 

And yea I'm not talking about the full build with tons of pictures... I'm saying, each person posts 1-2 pics, along with something like-

Tank Size: XXXX
Inhabitants: XXXX
Plant list: XXXX
XXXX
XXXX
Lighting: XXXX
Other equipment: XXXXX
XXXXX 
Base Layer/Substrate: XXXXX
XXXXX
Background Type: XXXXX
Other comments: "My viv is unique because XXXX," or "I decided to try new method XXX on this viv" 
Build Thread Link: XXXXX

Short, sweet, and informative.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

I have to disagree. it should be fairly anonymous. just post a picture of your tank and be gone! the only thing included other than the picture would be a link to the build thread. once the person actually wins Kyle would create a thread for them with their info on the tank and more pictures. the issue with listing all of the equipment and inhabitants is that people will pick this person because they had their favorite frog or plant and the others didn't. it's not a monthly frog contest here. this way it's kept completely fair and even more simple.


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

I mostly agree with curlykid. those of us who don't know the names of the plants should be able to enter. but what about those of us who don't even have a build thread? I think it should be pictures and nothing else.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

a build thread wouldn't be mandatory.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I don't see why everyone wants to reinvent the wheel here - in my opinion this contest should be run just like every other tank of the month contest. Check out sites like Nano-reef.com and reefcentral.com to get an idea as to what I'm speaking about.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

that's where i got my idea from.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Mitch said:


> I don't see why everyone wants to reinvent the wheel here - in my opinion this contest should be run just like every other tank of the month contest. Check out sites like Nano-reef.com and reefcentral.com to get an idea as to what I'm speaking about.


exactly what I mean about the nano-reef TOTM. here ill link the page so you can see the format im talking about. Dipg - Featured Reef Profiles - Nano-Reef.com
I think we are getting confused about full info for nominee and info after you win. I think just info after you win should be sufficient. seasonally or bi-yearly. I also believe on nanoreef the tanks are entered nominated by other members. so in other words people are entering their tank into every competion because they think theirs is..."amazing"... I think this would make it easier on the mods to choose a final 10 tanks to vote upon.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

curlykid said:


> I have to disagree. it should be fairly anonymous. just post a picture of your tank and be gone! the only thing included other than the picture would be a link to the build thread. once the person actually wins Kyle would create a thread for them with their info on the tank and more pictures. the issue with listing all of the equipment and inhabitants is that people will pick this person because they had their favorite frog or plant and the others didn't. it's not a monthly frog contest here. this way it's kept completely fair and even more simple.


Very unlikely that people would vote based on a single frog or plant, and most of the people who *know plants* would be able to ID it themselves anyways. It's a "vivarium contest," not a "frog contest," so it won't be huge blown up pictures of the frogs... I really don't see what the harm in mentioning that "This viv houses a pair of intermedius" is 

Also, the actual poll thread would be pictures only.... but the applicant thread would be where the info is. I for one trust the mods to be objective in their narrowing of the contestants..... no bias, and those of us with no chance of winning still get to learn something.

Also, people will find loopholes if they really want to.... i.e. taking a picture where their frog is sitting out in the open so you'll know what it is anyways. Transparency of info gets rid of that.



frog dude said:


> I mostly agree with curlykid. those of us who don't know the names of the plants should be able to enter. but what about those of us who don't even have a build thread? I think it should be pictures and nothing else.


If you don't know the names of your plants, you should be able to enter anyways.... the plant list would be to help people learn new plant species they might not know about. 

To be frank, those of us (myself included) who aren't great with plants also don't stand much of a chance of winning, there is some stiff competition around these parts- and the majority of them know a crapload about plants. 

Again, If I know I'm not going to win anyways, I'd at least like to learn some useful information from the contestants. 




Mitch said:


> I don't see why everyone wants to reinvent the wheel here - in my opinion this contest should be run just like every other tank of the month contest. Check out sites like Nano-reef.com and reefcentral.com to get an idea as to what I'm speaking about.


Once again - If I know I'm not going to win anyways, I'd at least like to learn some useful information from the contestants. A short sweet template like the one above would be really easy and would actually help REDUCE clutter, not add to it.

Also, the problem with doing it like RC, is that they run it monthly..... it slims down the number of contestants. Doing it only twice a year would mean there would be far too many contestants to fit in one poll - thus polling would not be a possibility, and we would have to find another way to slim it down before voting. 

The applicant thread -> mods choose top 10-15 -> we vote method is also in use on quite a few forums as well........ so its really not reinventing anything. 


i.e., this is what you would end up with (the voting thread would be picture only like this, so the issues mentioned above wouldn't be problems, as the info would only be in the application thread.....)

benefits- 
-simple & organized
-we all learn something
-we all get to vote on it, instead of having it chosen for us
-unbiased

= win.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

i see now. it just seemed weird when you first described it.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Mitch said:


> I don't see why everyone wants to reinvent the wheel here - in my opinion this contest should be run just like every other tank of the month contest. Check out sites like Nano-reef.com and reefcentral.com to get an idea as to what I'm speaking about.


I do like how the OP on this thread here went about it



> February 2011 nTOTM Contest Entries
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> ...


February 2011 nTOTM Contest Entries - Reef Central Online Community

there are different size categories apparently on that site.
only 3 pics and that's it yet one guy went about listing stuff which I don't think is what the OP had in mind.

3 pics, list of inhabitants, and a link to your build journal should suffice.

honestly tho I think that forum probably has no form of unfairness whatsoever...seems like a good community.

the mods should not determine a winner....this should be a community event and popular vote rules.
Popular vote like an election it what is best.
Not biased on Dendroboard?......no such thing cause honestly I have seen more biased behavior here than any site I have ever been on except Onision.net....he is pretty controlling and the forum is made up of mostly kids and there is tons of immaturity there. He forces his views and beliefs on the forum. He is a vegetarian so you're not allowed to say meat and if you say meat eater you get linked to slaughterhouse vids.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic about the other forum but there is biased people here on Dendroboard. 
It is almost a certainty that if I submitted a viv I would not get votes due to people's views about me. 
It could be the GOD of all vivs yet people will still be biased.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

I don't see what the issue with listing info is. I'm not suggesting you should be REQUIRED to list anything, but I definitely don't think that you should be banned from doing so...... why limit useful information?

Getting rid of that information for the sake of fairness is like getting rid of dodgeball because it leaves slow kids at a disadvanage.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

We have a lot of members building a lot of vivs of different sizes. I say we do it quarterly with a split 
Under 20 gallons
20 to 55 gallons
55 to 100 gallons 
101 gallons and up. 
That way someone with an amazing 40 breeder vert won't have to compete with something like the deebs 300 Paludarium complete with archerfish! 
We could vote on each group 2x a year with applicants needing to have completed their tank since the last contest for that size ended. 

No plant lists or animal lists necessary but appreciated


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

frogparty said:


> We have a lot of members building a lot of vivs of different sizes. I say we do it quarterly with a split
> Under 20 gallons
> 20 to 55 gallons
> 55 to 100 gallons
> ...


agreed but as I said just the appearance of the viv and how it accommodates the species should be considered.
If meeting the requirements and of the species is a factor in this we can get people to really start focusing on the species they are gonna be putting in the viv. Some on here do take this into account with their vivs. I however knew I was gonna do thumbnails but I didn't pick a species and that was an error on my part to not build it accordingly to the species. I think it will suit whatever thumbnails I choose tho.
Anyone can have a great looking viv but are the requirements and needs of the frogs met? 

I forgot to mention this....plant lists are kinda obsolete cause if members know what the plants are then you don't need a list. Even if there was a list I don't think whoever doesn't know what the plant is that they are looking at and match it with the list.

Also I really really hope we can forbid conversation on the entry thread.
Maybe compliments and the person just clicking thanks for the compliment and move along.....no chit chat lol.
People should be able to go on there and just look at the entries and not have to sift through all the questions and conversation.
That's what the Parts & Construction and the Member's Frogs & Vivariums sections are for 
Besides there should really be journals of the build already usually so just link that.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> agreed but as I said just the appearance of the viv and how it accommodates the species should be considered.
> If meeting the requirements and of the species is a factor in this we can get people to really start focusing on the species they are gonna be putting in the viv. Some on here do take this into account with their vivs. I however knew I was gonna do thumbnails but I didn't pick a species and that was an error on my part to not build it accordingly to the species. I think it will suit whatever thumbnails I choose tho.


If you think a 10 gallon vert is appropriate for any thumbnail, you are in for a sorry surprise. I don't think that is an appropriate setup for many of the more terrestrial thumbs.  Depending on what all you classify as thumbs this could include Retics, Summersi, Quinquevittatus, Uakarri, and Castaneoticus. I would also want to see more floor space for Fantastica.




DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I forgot to mention this....plant lists are kinda obsolete cause if members know what the plants are then you don't need a list. Even if there was a list I don't think whoever doesn't know what the plant is that they are looking at and match it with the list.


Without a plant list it is virtually impossible to try to learn anything by identifying the plants you like and might want to try and work with sometime. With a plant list it is easy to search the species online until you find the ones you are working with.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> February 2011 nTOTM Contest Entries - Reef Central Online Community
> 
> honestly tho I think that forum probably has no form of unfairness whatsoever...seems like a good community.


You are terribly misinformed....... It is a pretty good forum community, but I'm pretty sure the Tang Police would treat you more "unfairly" than anyone here does lol. I'm willing to put money on that. 

And yes Brandon, I believe we should choose a winner as a community also- I'm going to break it down for you more simply, since you don't seem to get it:

IIRC, the maximum # of poll options on this forum is 19. That is the way vBadvanced forums work as far as I know. Don't believe me? Start a poll and let me know how it goes when you have more than 19 options.

If there are more than 19 contestants, and want to use the poll voting system, we will need to narrow it down. 

Otherwise, we physically cannot hold the vote through the poll system and would have to do it via headcount which is a general PITA.

Since that is the case, how do we narrow it down? One way is to have several categories, as frogparty suggested, which is a good idea.... the other is having the mods narrow it down to <19. Either seems totally acceptable, but having to do 3-4 categories would probably end up being more work for the mods, who are people like us with limited time on their hands.


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Also I really really hope we can forbid conversation on the entry thread.
> Maybe compliments and the person just clicking thanks for the compliment and move along.....no chit chat lol.
> People should be able to go on there and just look at the entries and not have to sift through all the questions and conversation.
> That's what the Parts & Construction and the Member's Frogs & Vivariums sections are for
> Besides there should really be journals of the build already usually so just link that.


What purpose does this serve? Most people do not make build threads (and many of the build threads are done by beginners...not all but most). Conversation is integral to learning...why limit what people can get out of a thread...for convenience? It makes no sense. If someone has an established viv, but didn't take step-by-step pics during the build process, should they be excluded from the contest?...of course not. The more information included, the better.

EDIT: I think one prerequisite for entry should be that the tank must be inhabited (though not necessarily by darts).


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

So, if i read correctly it goes like this:

Thread 1: Contestants post an FTS + 2 other shots of their vivarium. They post a list of: Animals *NO CONVERSATION*
Plants
Lighting
Misting system
Substrate & Background
Other Equipment

Thread 2: Mods have chosen up to 19 contestants for us to vote on. This thread consists of a poll and an FTS of each contestant's vivarium. It is locked.

Thread 3: The profile of the winner's vivarium. Has multiple shots of the inhabitants with captions and a full list of the materials used. Also has timeline shots if there are any as well as a short journal of the build if available. Discussion is allowed here.

Let me know if I missed something.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> What purpose does this serve? Most people do not make build threads (and many of the build threads are done by beginners...not all but most). Conversation is integral to learning...why limit what people can get out of a thread...for convenience? It makes no sense. If someone has an established viv, but didn't take step-by-step pics during the build process, should they be excluded from the contest?...of course not. The more information included, the better.
> 
> EDIT: I think one prerequisite for entry should be that the tank must be inhabited (though not necessarily by darts).


I did not say they should be excluded I did not list a build journal as a requirement....

It's not about convenience it is about not having clutter.
I could care less about this really but I voiced my opinion on it.
Those with thread links can link them and those that do not have threads then of course people are gonna have questions.
If the person submitting really cared about teaching they would have done a construction journal to begin with.

This is a PDF forum and it should only be PDF vivs. With the exception of Mantellas.

like I have said before to James, you can either agree or disagree the choice is yours.
I'm not gonna debate my opinion.
We will just have to agree to disagree.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

curlykid said:


> So, if i read correctly it goes like this:
> 
> Thread 1: Contestants post an FTS + 2 other shots of their vivarium. They post a list of: Animals *NO CONVERSATION*
> Plants
> ...


Sounds good to me, except for Thread 1 that was just a basic guideline to keep people from writing 12 paragraphs in their entry.

IMO the only requirement should be the pictures, but they should be allowed to write a bit more if they so desire, so we can "get to know the viv" as long as it isn't a novel...... seems to me without the information it is just a Picture of the Month contest and not the Vivarium of the Month. Just my .02 though


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

curlykid said:


> So, if i read correctly it goes like this:
> 
> Thread 1: Contestants post an FTS + 2 other shots of their vivarium. They post a list of: Animals *NO CONVERSATION*
> Plants
> ...


this would be a ideal setup but I just hope lighting, misting systems, and other equipment isn't what makes the vote.
Like I said it would be unfair to DIY people and people who can't afford all that stuff.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

tclipse said:


> Sounds good to me, except for Thread 1 that was just a basic guideline to keep people from writing 12 paragraphs in their entry.
> 
> IMO the only requirement should be the pictures, but they should be allowed to write a bit more if they so desire, as long as it isn't a novel. Just my .02


YES!! 
finally we agree


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Sounds like fun, just thinking about a monthly contest would be banannas. Grimm is a ringer so he can't join lol, he has to be a judge (joking grimm). It would be fun to see how people go head to head. IMO there is no median with building after your 1st viv, either your good or bad lol. I think someone should do a thread reflecting the highlight vivs of 2011, that would be cool if everyone posted there best 2011 vivs and othe Dart highlights of this yr. Some are more fundamental at building than actually frogging. Building a viv is one of the best experiences on earth lol.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

yeah Grimm isn't allowed cause that just wouldn't be fair 
neither is NathalieB, RAF, or the guy that did the huge corner paludarium, I can't remember his name or where his thread is haha

jk of course


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

I think that Grimm should just get an automatic win if he enters. i mean... who wouldn't vote for that mossy, orchid filled wonderland


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> 1)It's not about convenience it is about not having clutter.
> 2)I could care less about this really but I voiced my opinion on it.
> 3)If the person submitting really cared about teaching they would have done a construction journal to begin with.
> 4)This is a PDF forum and it should only be PDF vivs. With the exception of Mantellas.


1) Clutter to one person may be invaluable information to another. 
2) I do think you care, because you continue to post.
3) Where in this thread is it stated that one must care about teaching to submit a viv? Why should that be a prerequisite for entry? How can you claim that someone who doesn't make a build thread doesn't care about teaching (case in point: Have I ever posted a build thread? Have I gone out of my way to help many local froggers (including you)? Just because I don't have a build thread doesn't mean I don't care about teaching).
4) Other Amphibians - Dendroboard 'nuff said


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> 1) Clutter to one person may be invaluable information to another.
> 2) I do think you care, because you continue to post.
> 3) Where in this thread is it stated that one must care about teaching to submit a viv? Why should that be a prerequisite for entry? How can you claim that someone who doesn't make a build thread doesn't care about teaching (case in point: Have I ever posted a build thread? Have I gone out of my way to help many local froggers (including you)? Just because I don't have a build thread doesn't mean I don't care about teaching).
> 4) Other Amphibians - Dendroboard 'nuff said


Dedroboard
"Your source for dart frog information"
Lots of forums have "other animal" sections, doesn't mean they would allow them into competitions.

If anyone wants to enter a competition for any other animals I'm sure there is a forum for that.

I'm not gonna debate with you Field...we are just gonna have to agree to disagree...

Does anyone else think that anything besides dart frogs or mantellas should be allowed entry?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Does anyone else think that anything besides dart frogs or mantellas should be allowed entry?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Does anyone else think that anything besides dart frogs or mantellas should be allowed entry?



YES

It's called vivarium of the month...

Not animal specific ... not hard to understand really.

What I don't understand is 1st you said inhabitants should not be included, due to "fairness "... but now it must be a prerequisite ...???

Makeup your mind already ...


Casper


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Does anyone else think that anything besides dart frogs or mantellas should be allowed entry?


Ya why not? I mean if its a vivarium for a anuran and not say a tree boa or anole.. but I mean its not like my opinion matters in this extremely biased forum.

Edit: Merry Christmas..


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Dizzle21 said:


> Ya why not? I mean if its a vivarium for a anuran and not say a tree boa or anole.. but I mean its not like my opinion matters in this extremely biased forum.
> 
> Edit: Merry Christmas..


actually your opinion does matter but how you go about it is a different story.
I won't debate your opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for the holiday wishes but Merry "Christ"mas is against my religious views. I call it Xmas.

If you happen to be christian tho.....Merry Christmas to you too


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

a vivarium is a vivarium. no one needs to know your religious views, it's Christmas not Xmas btw. Merry Christmas!


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## Lbacha (Sep 7, 2011)

If you want only vivariums with frogs then why not call it PDF vivarium of the month to eliminate the confusion, vivarium is a very generic term, it means an enclosure that contains animals and plants and try's to mimic their natural habitat, to throw a wrench in with the term, aquariums are form of vivarium if built to represent a natural environment.

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definitions/Vivarium

Len


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Does anyone else think that anything besides dart frogs or mantellas should be allowed entry?


Absolutely. It's vivarium of the month, not frog of the month.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> If you happen to be christian tho.....Merry Christmas to you too


close but agnostic atheist.. back on topic..cheers Merry Christmas 

Anyways im curious what people views on paludarium entries? yes or no


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## Mer_ (Sep 11, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Does anyone else think that anything besides dart frogs or mantellas should be allowed entry?


I actually sort of agree with this. I think it should only be dart vivariums because like you said this is a forum with a specific general interest. I wouldn't make an exception for mantellas because then there would be no reason not to allow other amphibian vivariums to compete. Just because there is an "other amphibians" section doesn't necessarily seem like good reason to allow other vivariums because "If anyone wants to enter a competition for any other animals I'm sure there is a forum for that."


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

oh yea!

how about next time we have a pumpkin carving contest we can require participants to use only orange pumpkins between 10" and 12" dia. then we can stipulate that users can only use sticks to carve (cause using a knife or other carving tools that cost money would be unfair) then we can give voters only 30 seconds to view each entry (so they have to make an immediate decision) and for good measure lets stipulate that carvings can only be made with the following content:
2.74X life size, dendrobates species, in profile.

james

there have been a number of vivarium contests in the past (which seemingly worked fine)so whats with trying to reinvent the wheel?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Dizzle21 said:


> close but agnostic atheist.. back on topic..cheers Merry Christmas
> 
> Anyways im curious what people views on paludarium entries? yes or no


lol I just said I don't believe in it and you said it anyway.
Thanks for the respect for my religious views 
I tried to show you respect even tho you called me "dragon slayer" although I was wrong about your religious beliefs and I apologize.
So I am being chill with you so please do the same for me in return?
We don't have to like each other but we need to be civil and get along.

Yes I think paludariums should be able to be entered. As I said tho I think only poison dart frog entries should be made so deebs archer fish paludarium isn't associated with dart frogs or mantellas so shouldn't be considered


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh my gorsh its Christmas today! I don't see a hippopotamus though...


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Complicated rules make the contests less than fun.

I do like the idea of this type of contest and am more than willing to get one going for the next contest but we will need solid rules and I like the idea of a documented build with a write up on it afterwords.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

So I like what Curlykid posted: 



> Thread 1: Contestants post an FTS + 2 other shots of their vivarium. They post a list of:
> Animals
> Plants
> Lighting
> ...


I'd also like to add a few rules that I think would be appropriate:
- All animals allowed
- Paludariums allowed (I'd consider these a type of vivarium)
- The winner should create an educational write up about his or her vivarium after winning 
- I think thread 3 should be stickied in the Members frogs and vivariums forum
- I think a FTS should be posted on the home page from the winner 
- I also like the breaking it up into a few size categories - small, medium, large. Once winner could be selected from each category. 

That's all I can think of for now. Others are welcome to make adjustments, just 
nothing too ridiculous like "no one should post anything about what type of plants they have, what frogs they have, and what misting system they have, because that will put me at a disadvantage..."


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I'm off this week so Ill see what we can come up with. I do think its better to not post the submissions to a thread as it ruins the poll as people have already seen them and discussed them.

Also not sure about the size limitation as it could limit some people.


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## Lbacha (Sep 7, 2011)

I think all vivs should be applicable, I've kept non aquatic (remember a natural aquarium is a vivarium) vivs since the early 90's and dart frogs since the mid 90's although I have been out of the frog hobby for years because of travel requirements I still have an interest in vivs and this board has a focus on both so I don't see why frogs would be a requirement especially since in alot of cases the viv is build to replicate nature not for the frogs but for the aesthetics of it. This is just my two sense but I see no reason in making a requirement something that I could just as easily add to a mature viv just to qualify then remove after I took pics. In reality it would have little affect on the voting, think of Grimms 150 if there were no frogs in it I would still consider it one of the best vivs I've seen.

Len


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

A paludrium will take the prize most of the time. Its just way more complex, and water features give a way better look. A well done Paludrium would be tough to do on they fly. 

Side bar whos watching ¨A Christmas story? The part when the father won the leg lamp, he says. ¨F-r-a-g-i-l-e, must be Italian¨. That reminds me of how everyone flips about shipping companies handling their packages.


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## Lbacha (Sep 7, 2011)

B-NICE said:


> A paludrium will take the prize most of the time. Its just way more complex, and water features give a way better look. A well done Paludrium would be tough to do on they fly.
> 
> Side bar whos watching ¨A Christmas story? The part when the father won the leg lamp, he says. ¨F-r-a-g-i-l-e, must be Italian¨. That reminds me of how everyone flips about shipping companies handling their packages.


I agree that paludariums look good but they are alot harder to do well, the transition between land and water is key and quite frankly is hard to do really well which is why when someone pulls it off it looks so good. I still think the terrarium setups that most people have look amazing if set up well and work better in small enclosures. 

By the way I drove by the actual house from the movie yesterday and the lamp is in the window.

Len


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Yup, I heard the house is now a display house.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

i wqatch 'It's a Wonderful Life' Best. Movie. Ever.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Can someone put the youtube clip of that part up for me? I'm using my PS3, and it sucks with certain stuff.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

B-NICE said:


> Can someone put the youtube clip of that part up for me? I'm using my PS3, and it sucks with certain stuff.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Mitch said:


> I'd also like to add a few rules that I think would be appropriate:
> - All animals allowed
> - Paludariums allowed (I'd consider these a type of vivarium)
> - The winner should create an educational write up about his or her vivarium after winning
> ...


Sound good. How about a minimum time limit that the vivarium has been going/established for? Otherwise we could end up with some Picasa-like work of art that looks fantastic but wont keep the plants alive, much less any fauna, for more than a month.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Mitch said:


> So I like what Curlykid posted:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just can't see a non PDF being featured on the front page lol can we at least keep it in the tropical/sub-tropical spectrum?
Any type of frogs allowed but nothing like snakes, bearded dragons, uromastyx, leapord geckos and things along those lines?

Totally agree with the disadvantage part...that's what I was ranting about was that some stuff is really good put people at a disadvantage cause they can't afford the stuff or they just don't need it.
I just don't wanna see anyone pretty much buy the contest.
Also I have been mentioning this a bunch but I think the fact if the viv accommodates the inhabitants should play a huge factor.

Just thought of something....does it even have to be inhabited?
Some peeps might build a nice viv but aren't ready for inhabitants just yet.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I just can't see a non PDF being featured on the front page lol can we at least keep it in the tropical/sub-tropical spectrum?
> Any type of frogs allowed but nothing like snakes, bearded dragons, uromastyx, leapord geckos and things along those lines?
> 
> Totally agree with the disadvantage part...that's what I was ranting about was that some stuff is really good put people at a disadvantage cause they can't afford the stuff or they just don't need it.
> ...


I wouldn't consider a sub-tropical tank to be a vivarium in my opinion. When I think of vivarium, a rain-forest habitat comes to mind. Not desert or anything like that. I don't think a tank like that would get any votes even if it were allowed in the contest anyways. 

As for the accommodation of the inhabitants, that's something the voter will have to take into consideration, as rules can't really be created to regulate that. 

Also, I forgot to add anything to the rules about a time limit. The vivarium should be well established before it can be entered. I think there should be a 6 month minimum age for the vivarium, but I guess that's up for debate.


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## Micro (Dec 26, 2011)

i say a few weeks so i can join in! haha

But on a serious note how will you be able to know the age of the tank legitimately? If the fear of having people go out of their way to create a tank thats completely awesome but not practical for actually growing then it should be fairly obvious and if nothing else let their be multiple categories: an established tank category, maybe a new tank category and an anything goes category that way people can have some options.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

jacobi said:


> Sound good. How about a minimum time limit that the vivarium has been going/established for? Otherwise we could end up with some Picasa-like work of art that looks fantastic but wont keep the plants alive, much less any fauna, for more than a month.





what?.. you don't like it when my panther chameleon hangs out with my prized discus?...


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## Micro (Dec 26, 2011)

lmao too funny! some beautiful tanks though!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Those shots are fantastic!!!!


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## jsb (Dec 19, 2011)

WOW Those are some awesome pictures, Thanks for sharing them.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Totally agree with the disadvantage part...that's what I was ranting about was that some stuff is really good put people at a disadvantage cause they can't afford the stuff or they just don't need it.
> I just don't wanna see anyone pretty much buy the contest.


Are you suggesting that we would have to view a tank filled with high end bromeliads and orchids on the same level as a tank filled with pothos just because some people spend more money and some people don't?

This would be a contest for the _best_ vivarium of the year (or month, or quarter). Everything that goes into building and showcasing each contestants vivarium should be considered, whether it cost a lot of money or not. In no way, shape or form should a contest like this be "fair."

Should we all have to take pictures with our phones because not everyone can afford a good camera? Would some people be disqualified for using a smartphone because not everyone can afford one?


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Dizzle21 said:


> what?.. you don't like it when my panther chameleon hangs out with my prized discus?...


those are great paludariums. dont you worry about the chameleons fslling into the water. I know they do have great grip.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

those arent my tanks, it was a joke.
It looks like a photo tank built to just take some pics. I doubt thats a permant home for a cham. Just like the pics that you see on those aquarium kit boxes, with the 20 big fish crammed into a 5 gallon tank, not realistic. anyway back on track.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

The plants also appear to be fake in those photos, not vivariums


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## Jon Mason (Apr 1, 2011)

Great Idea


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Contest has been posted:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/contests/77267-dendroboard-vivarium-contest.html

Any questions concerning the rules or etc should be posted in the contest thread.

Thanks for the idea and lets get to building...


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Dizzle21 said:


> what?.. you don't like it when my panther chameleon hangs out with my prized discus?...


WHAT?!? No MERMAIDS??? sigh...


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