# Online Magazine



## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

Hello everyone,

My progression into PDF's originally started through freshwater aquaria, then saltwater aquaria, and then finally into PDF's. During my time on saltwater aquarium forums, I enjoyed the online magazines created by those forums. Thus I was wondering if the community thinks it possible to put together a quarterly or monthly online magazine?

Thanks,

Isaac


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm sure we could do it, the expertise and the skills are here, it would just be a matter of someone taking the initiative/lead...


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## Brock (Jun 29, 2007)

The chameleon hobby has one,
http://www.chameleonnews.com
I find it very useful, I think an online magazine for darts would have a lot of really good issues,
really good photos, and really useful information. It would also be
A HECK OF A LOT EASIER
to look through issues for information, than to look though forums for information, that can get tedious and discouraging at some points.

What do we need to do to get started?


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

*Cough* Leaf Litter *Cough*

there are also a few others out there but none that I know of translated to english


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## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

And that costs money.

I was thinking of something a little more hobby oriented that was free and did not have to be translated.

I think it would be a good resource for beginners. And it would be another feather in dendroboards proverbial hat.

--------------------

As for what is needed to get started would be:

A place to post.
The boards support.
And editor and lead designer.
A design team.
A graphics team.
Writers.


The first two would be critical before even getting started. In order maintain the quality of the magazine and continuity, there would need to be a head editor in charge of all the final decisions. He/She would then need the support of a design 'team' to provide creative input and help find writers, stories, resources, etc. The graphics 'team' would put together the finished product for 'publication'. Then you have the writers who might change with each issue, but they would provide the articles.


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

cindre2000 said:


> And that costs money.
> 
> I was thinking of something a little more hobby oriented that was free and did not have to be translated.
> 
> I think it would be a good resource for beginners. And it would be another feather in dendroboards proverbial hat.


I'm sorry I fail to see how Leaf Litter is cost prohibitive and not hobby oriented.


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## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

I do not have an issue with the cost, I am sure it is for a good cause. However, I would prefer a free magazine associated with this board. I do not have a TWI membership, thus I cannot access the magazine to see it's content. However, the purpose of this thread is not to see what magazines are out there, but to see if individuals on this board are interested in creating a Dendroboard periodical.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

You do relies twi is a sponsor? So if other people did a db one that be like taking money from coca-cola and selling pepsi. Their is plenty of good beginner info in the care sheet section and if you need advise on something specific do a search. Its a good idea buts its already being done.
Brian


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

There is a care sheet user group for those who are interested in writing articles for our care sheet section. Our community is not as large as some of the other sites who have these monthly magazines..


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Brian Ferriera said:


> You do relies twi is a sponsor? So if other people did a db one that be like taking money from coca-cola and selling pepsi. Their is plenty of good beginner info in the care sheet section and if you need advise on something specific do a search. Its a good idea buts its already being done.
> Brian


TWI is not a sponsor. DB sponsors TWI, not the other way around.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

Thier in the sponsors section how ever you look at it what I said is still relevant.
Brian


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## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

No matter who sponser's whom, it is not relevant to this conversation. TWI is collecting money for conservation purposes, Dendroboard is a *non-profit* community of PDF enthusiasts. They are not competing in any way.

There are a couple of small communities that have magazines. It is not the size of the community that matters, is the drive and dedication of the members of that community. All that really matters is whether or not the members of this community are willing to put together a quarterly or monthly magazine, and whether a few choice individuals step up to the plate to organize such a task.


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## onetwenty (Jun 16, 2008)

hey everyone,
being mainly a lurker of dendro, i've found every contribution i've read helpful on some level.

I am a photographer and graphic designer, and also have a little bit of web design and building experience. 
so where I can help, I'm offering myself!

let's do this.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

I think everyone shoud just pony up and join TWI and get Leaf Litter. I feel the board is informative and fun to read as it is. Time to reflect on guru's to newbie's opinions and not have to download a bunch of possible fecal.

guess I am in a mood tonight  

Sally


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## Brock (Jun 29, 2007)

(Sorry this is long, 2am and too much coffee today...<3) A recipe for ideas!! :idea: :idea: :idea: 

Leaf Litter is only published semi-annually? And there's not even a Spring 2008 article out yet?...Six articles x twice a year??....And you have to pay for it??... That's 1 article a month. How many new posts and discussions are started on here each DAY.? :wink: 

I dunno how I feel about that, there's enough information on vivariums, substrates, culturing ideas, innovative ideas for airflow and drainage, lighting, heating, custom design, etc etc etc. nevermind the frogs themselves, to have some info published quarterly. 




The style of http://www.chameleonnews.com online e-zine is a good example/template to follow for a dart frog specific one.

-Monthly or quarterly
-Themed issues, like a region in Brazil issue, or a Panama issue, or a Conservation issue, or a Phyllobates issue, Dendrobates issue, plants issue, etc etc etc.
-Volunteer articles on any of the various topics related to dart frogs
-Every issue could have an article about different feeders or related to culturing feeders
-Every issue could have an article dedicated to innovative ideas that make life easier for either us or our frogs
-Lots and lots of pictures!!
-Eventually possibly some sponsored photo contests or essay contests. Recently on Canadart.org (your northern cousin) had a contest sponsored by UnderstoryEnterprises to design a flyer that they could hand out at conventions, just a one page flyer with general info on dart frogs to hand out to people at shows, for a prize of 100$ to spend at their website. I thought that was such a good idea compared to the generic photo contest; this way the sponsor of the contest gets something they can use to help their business and the hobby.
-I was going to suggest a Q&A article to each issue, but that's better left to the forum. :idea: 




*Here are some examples of e-zine material!!*

This thread is such a great innovative idea that it's more than worthy of being published on an e-zine http://www.dendroboard.com/parts-construction/topic39455.html?hilit=fan

That was brilliant!! And there's so many innovative ideas like that, and if you're gone for a few days and there's 15 pages of new posts, it's easy to miss.

Another good example would be that thread that's currently going on about plaster inserts and springtail culturing. http://www.dendroboard.com/food-feeding/topic40957.html?hilit=springtail

That type of stuff is great e-zine material.






The ''issue'' with forums is that a lot of the time the experienced guys that have been around forever with all their wisdom, they get tired of posting the same things over and over again. You do a search for something and you have to weed through *literally* hundreds of posts to get the information you're actually looking for. You get that same information in an online e-zine and it's so simple to find, it's gold.

Another ''issue'' is that on a forum something really interesting might only be discussed once, then forgotten and no noob is going to know what keywords to search for to find that information to help them along. Like those two links I just posted about the fan that won't affect humidity by having ventilation to the outside, but still allow for really great airflow; and the thread about the springtail hotel. You won't find those threads by doing a search on 'ventilation' or 'springtails' yet they're two great ideas that make life for you and your frogs better and everyone should know about it.

The forum is great for day-to-day issues, support and discussion; no hobby would evolve without discussion. In fact, the forum will end up being the inspiration for most of the e-zine issues. But having archival information that can be useful and EASILY looked through would help a lot for the noobies, and for keeping up with new information in the dart world; like new species, classification changes. When you go away for a few weeks or months, you miss a lot of important forum posts.

What I'm getting at, is that the e-zine wouldn't replace the forum. The forum would be the backbone of the e-zine  

And could I make a request that the first issue have info about the revision of the Dendrobates genus? Like the Ranitomeya, Oophaga, Excidobates, Adelphobates. I think that's a pretty foggy area still...

That's my .02cents, now I wish I'd been in the hobby for more than just 18 months so I could contribute something :|


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

> Leaf Litter is only published semi-annually? And there's not even a Spring 2008 article out yet?...Six articles x twice a year??....And you have to pay for it??... That's 1 article a month. How many new posts and discussions are started on here each DAY.? :wink:
> 
> I dunno how I feel about that, there's enough information on vivariums, substrates, culturing ideas, innovative ideas for airflow and drainage, lighting, heating, custom design, etc etc etc. nevermind the frogs themselves, to have some info published quarterly.


You're PAYING to join TWI witch is a group of people that have busted thier butts trying to make this more then just a hobby. Every one of the people that contribute are extremely great people and have all work for a living. Thier are only so many hours in a day, and frankly having TWI is more important the an online magazine





> The ''issue'' with forums is that a lot of the time the experienced guys that have been around forever with all their wisdom, they get tired of posting the same things over and over again. You do a search for something and you have to weed through *literally* hundreds of posts to get the information you're actually looking for.


I have done many searches on here and I have no idea what your talking about you dont have to weed through anything


Brian


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

I believe the frequency of publishing leaf litter is due to the resources available (writers, publishers, etc.). I would encourage those interested to join TWI and offer to help with the magazine.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

You know... griping/whining about something that does not exist sounds like a recipe to ...

*Create it*!

I realize you actually kind of said this already - but put your energy into the project (and recruiting for it).

Actually, that is much how Dendroboard came into existence. Someone was told (on FrogNet) to quit whining about it (we won't say <cough>who</cough> said this (but it might've been me)) and go do it.

Joe did - this is the result. 

Not bad ...

s


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

I think a community generated magazine could be fun. So many good conversations happen here, and some get stickied, but a magazine could be a good way of making the ideas more concrete and user friendly. Who is going to take the lead?
-mark


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## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

I would be willing to put myself forth as lead or one of the design team. But before we get to ahead of ourselves we will need to make sure we can get the magazine hosted and set up properly.

The magazine that *brock *linked to (http://www.chameleonnews.com) is a really nice template of how to start. Nice and simple, easy to set up.


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

just in case you use the dendrboard name ya might wanna ask kyle 
craig


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## DF20 (Jul 7, 2007)

I am a graphic designer, Let me know if you need any help, dan


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## donstr (Jun 21, 2007)

I don't really see why all this time, creativity, and energy can't go toward TWI and Leaf Litter. You guys have the chance to actually do something good and bigger but instead you're going to re-invent the wheel??
Ya know, I haven't really found the time to volunteer to help out with TWI. After reading this thread I'm going to make the time.
I don't know... am I expecting too much from other people? :?


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

I understand the idea of putting some of the info in an easier to find place but I think Kyle has done a pretty good job with the stickies. There are times when I am looking for some piece of info and I just take some time and do a search and read. Is it time consuming, sometimes, but I always pick up new info that I wasn't expecting. TWI is doing a great thing and Leaf Litter offers some stuff that we don't always get elsewhere. I agree that it makes more sense to join something already established and help it grow stronger than try and do something similar. 

Yeah, you have to spend $35 dollars to join TWI to access the magazine but the money is going to a good place and you'll have the benefit of being a part of something that is going to change the dart frog hobby and make a difference in the amphibian conservation.

Nate


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

I get the impression that Leaf Litter is a very official magazine, written by authorities who know what they are talking about and have something of benefit to say. If a magazine was created, I would see it as more of an opportunity to improve ones writing skills and collect everyones thoughts on a subject. My 2 cents.
-mark


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

just FYI from the TWI volunteer forums...



> [Leaf Litter] open call for two things:
> 
> Articles - if you have a piece you would like to submit (or idea you would like to turn into an article but want some feedback or more direction first), please contact me. Topics should fall somewhere within the threefold focus of the magazine:
> 
> ...


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## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

I am sorry that some individuals feel that an online magazine would compete with TWI's _Leaf Litter_, however, the intent of the magazine is not to compete with _Leaf Litter_ and attempts will probably be made to prevent too much overlap. This magazine idea is not out the crush _Leaf Litter_, it is an attempt to provide another facet to this site, a facet that is actually fairly common in other such sites, and a facet that I feel is very useful and compatible.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

markbudde said:


> I get the impression that Leaf Litter is a very official magazine, written by authorities who know what they are talking about and have something of benefit to say. If a magazine was created, I would see it as more of an opportunity to improve ones writing skills and collect everyones thoughts on a subject. My 2 cents.
> -mark




Some comments on this and then I have a very busy schedule to deal with for the next couple of days so I may not be able to get back here.. 

And what makes a person an authority? I have written for TWI and I readily admit that some of you know way more than me on a lot of things like many thumbnail species. 

TWI needs people to write articles for this magazine. If the desire is to improve your writing skills Leaf Litter is a good place to write an article as we have people (like myself) who will help with the editing of the article. 



cindre2000 said:


> I am sorry that some individuals feel that an online magazine would compete with TWI's _Leaf Litter_, however, the intent of the magazine is not to compete with _Leaf Litter_ and attempts will probably be made to prevent too much overlap. This magazine idea is not out the crush _Leaf Litter_, it is an attempt to provide another facet to this site, a facet that is actually fairly common in other such sites, and a facet that I feel is very useful and compatible.


Actually there would be a huge overlap whether it was intended or not... first off it would remove potential authors from the pool of people who would contribute to Leaf Litter
second: there is no way that the articles would not be on the same/similar subject matter
third it is in part targeting the same audience

If you want an honest opinion, TWI and Leaf Litter are gettting to a delicate stage in thier development. It is still all volunteer (meaning no one gets a salary) and we are finally just starting to get the funding to where we can apply for small matching grants to help with amphibian conservation and costs. Anything that majorily disrupts the growth of TWI at this point could very well set it back for years if it doesn't kill it. 

Granted I have a personal stake in seeing TWI and Leaf Litter prosper as I have donated a lot of time and effort (but not as much as some people) to getting it off the ground. 

Ed


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

I suppose I should chime in here as I see a few misconceptions that I feel should be cleared up.

First off, as someone mentioned, no one pays for Leaf Litter: it is a perk for people who decide to become members of TWI. The magazine itself is completely free. A standard TWI membership is $35 (which averages out to just under $3/month...I know people who spend considerably more than that on FF's each month!) and a student membership is just $20/year. 



> I get the impression that Leaf Litter is a very official magazine, written by authorities who know what they are talking about and have something of benefit to say.


I'm not sure where that impression came from as at least half (if not more) of the articles we've published so far have been written by average hobbyists...most of them members of Dendroboard. Yes, there have been some articles by people who work at botanical gardens or zoos or other similar institutions, but since TWI is comprised of people from all sorts of backgrounds and fields and interest levels, we try to include that variety of voices within the pages of Leaf Litter. Because of this, you will often find an article written by Joe Schmoe Hobbyist placed right next to one written by Joe Schmoe, PhD. Leaf Litter is a demonstration of the true collective of voices, experience, and knowledge of everyone interested in amphibians and their care and conservation.

Also, and I can say this from personal experience, there is FAR MORE work involved in putting something like this together than you might initially suppose. In the beginning, I had planned on Leaf Litter being released quarterly. I was extremely naive. Someday that might be possible, but at the moment, given the fact that EVERYTHING is done through voluntary efforts (from editing to donated images to articles to the design and layout), we settled on a regular and consistent twice-a-year release schedule. 

I actually came into this hobby after spending quite a few years in the reefkeeping hobby, and am aware of some of the more prominent online magazines out there. However, last I checked, one was taking a hiatus as the volunteers had become overworked and burnt out...and the other had moved forward beyond the volunteer-driven model and is now functioning with various funds, now actually purchasing articles and submissions from authors, etc.


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

I say do the Magazine...
We all have different tastes, and im for magazine and not the hardcore TWI stuff.
Listen to em all ... Sheesh !!!
different people can do what they want, let them. You did.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

> We all have different tastes, and im for magazine and not the hardcore TWI stuff.


What specifically do you mean by "hardcore?" I'm assuming this assumption is based on the fact that you've actually seen and read through an issue of Leaf Litter? If so, we would greatly appreciate any feedback you may have about this.


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## Carinya (Apr 26, 2008)

Does Leaf Litter accept advertising? Just curious.


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

no, im referring to all your attitudes.
reread this thread and look closely at all you twi responses.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

TWI is hardcore because it's the real deal...doing something about the great amphibian die-off. Not a bad thing to be associated with and for $25 a year, a real steal. About 7 cents a day.

People are of course free to create whatever communication vehicles they want on topics of their choosing. Kyle would have to decide whether he wants DB associated with a given endeavour.

Personally I think it's easier (perhaps better) to augment existing forms of communication as opposed to replication, perhaps even duplication of effort.

Bill


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

> Does Leaf Litter accept advertising? Just curious.


No, we don't. This is actually something we've talked about for quite some time and recently came to the decision to not accept advertising for a couple reasons. First, we want to keep the magazine fairly clean and uncluttered--we would prefer those pages that might otherwise be filled with ads to actually be used for further content about amphibians, maybe another article or photo essay that we wouldn't otherwise have room for. Second, if we open the door to accepting payment for space...we have to keep the door open. This is something we weren't comfortable with as anyone can pay for space in the magazine and put whatever they want in that space. Some herp publications have had experiences of people purchasing "ad" space but then using that space to insert personal messages or try to push personal agendas, try to sell animals, etc. We have decided to just steer clear of that altogether and remain as focused as possible on the mission of the magazine.

We realize that by not accepting advertising (and the funds that it generates) definitely limits some of the things we can do...but we're accepting those limits in order to provide as much content as possible within the pages of the magazine.



> no, im referring to all your attitudes.
> reread this thread and look closely at all you twi responses.


I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel like I portrayed any sort of negative attitude. I stated that I was simply clearing up some misunderstandings and false assumptions in order to prevent them from becoming common thought. Also, for those who have been talking about creating this other periodical, I just shared my own personal experience and thoughts in putting something like this together. It's fun and exciting to talk about ideas and ventures, but the romanticism fades pretty quickly when it comes down to the nuts and bolts (and hours of personal time and effort that must be devoted) into actually creating something that is sustainable and of quality. Anyone considering such a venture should be completely aware of this. This isn't personal opinion or attitude: it's pure and simple fact.

As for my _personal_ opinion on the matter, everything else aside, I have to agree with what Bill just said: this seems to be replicating/duplicating what is already being done and shared through Dendroboard and other venues. Given the amount of time and energy I've already mentioned something like this requires, I would think the enthusiasm and energy expressed here would be better served in augmenting what is already happening, whether it be Dendroboard or Leaf Litter. But, obviously, you're going to do what you want to do...and you of course have the freedom to do so.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I am open to the idea and had someone bring it to my attention via a PM.

From my perspective I have no problem hosting them and or integrating them into the site. I would thought prefer to keep it care based as I would much rather support TWI on the conservation front.

We can create a section to build the ideas for the people interested, but sadly I can not run the whole thing as I am just too busy right now. I can though provide a place to have the creative work done and host up the final product. Simply putting this into a page on the site would make it free and open to all.

I would also suggest we move this to the feedback section, but ill wait to see more of the comments before moving it.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

I see it both ways to be honest. I think some kind of magazine could be interesting, if not very fun. But here are my thoughts.

First, I am a TWI supporter (I will try to keep my attitude to a minimum  ). Leaf Litter is a great publication to have access to. Regardless of whether we do a magazine or not it is worth the donation just for the access!

My problem with the magazine is that most experienced members we have that I would like to see contribute are either very busy, or are involved with Leaf Litter. So I would be cautious about what got in as content. I think people might give an idea more weight than it deserves because it is in a magazine type format.

Something I had the idea for a few weeks ago was a recap post. I felt there were many good threads that others might be missing, so I consolidated them into this.
http://www.dendroboard.com/general-discussion/topic41033.html
We might be able to do something this simple to keep important threads at the top of the pile so to speak. Maybe once a month have a few members put together a "Best od DB" thread. You could even have one for pictures I guess. That way we are consolidating a lot of great information into one area. I have tried to do this myself with posts like this. http://www.dendroboard.com/beginner-discussion/topic38749.html and this http://www.dendroboard.com/plants/topic37050.html

There is a lot we can each do to make sure all of this great information does not get lost. I would be happy to put something like this together once a month or so. This just seems simpler to me. I have even seen others write synopsis of larger threads that were cool.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

As a side note, this is basically the same thing Kyle has been doing already.
http://www.dendroboard.com/general-discussion/topic18325.html


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Mywebbedtoes said:


> As a side note, this is basically the same thing Kyle has been doing already.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/general-discussion/topic18325.html



Egad, common sense strikes again 8) 

Bill


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

elmoisfive said:


> Personally I think it's easier (perhaps better) to augment existing forms of communication as opposed to replication, perhaps even duplication of effort.


This is kind of what made me think of it Bill. I agree with you, the information is there, we just need to use it, not reinvent it. I do think some of the stikies could be updated, because it is a shame when a really good thread dies off and new members do kow know it was there. So I do think we could do a better job of keeping that info to the fore.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Maybe the magazine could be as simple as links to past threads, and high level review of recent discussions. I know many times personalities and etc distract some people from good discussions and maybe a unbiased review of the topics would be beneficial and easier to read.


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## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

Meh, I was thinking of something a little more in depth than that. A past thread can be a starting point, but I don't feel a 'review' would be very informative or readable in some cases.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Don't misunderstand my statements I'm not saying that would be the only thing, just agreeing it maybe beneficial.

I'm open to helping as much as I can, and here is what I can provide here on the site:
- A place to work out the content (hidden forum for magazine group members)
- Creation and hosting of the magazine after the content is ready.
- Edit\review all content, and I feel there should be a couple people that do this.

I do want to be clear that I do not want to step on the toes of TWI and even more so help try to promote them.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

I'm holding off on presenting an opinion until I have a clearer understanding of what sort of content this online mag will offer that is unique and compelling enough to devote the time and energy to. As a part of the Leaf Litter committee, I can tell you that the articles are well within reach of all DB members and a compelling reason to offer up your $20 (student) or $35 (supporter) to benefit amphibian conservation efforts.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Jason,

I would see them as more care based than conservation based, but that is just my idea.

This idea was brought to my attention and my first thought was I have no problem with it, but I don't want to overshadow TWI.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> I would see them as more care based than conservation based, but that is just my idea.


Thanks Kyle. There's really no reason that a LL submission *couldn't* be care based- I guess that's the point I'm driving at. Let's be honest: I like simplicity in my life and potential duplication of efforts doesn't make much sense to me.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

I think Kyle is on the same page with what I have been thinking, using what we already have. I think anything that can engage people more is good.

Even as a TWI supporter I think we have to be clear that DB and TWI are two different groups. While I would rather see everyone join TWI and read Leaf Litter, I know that will not happen. In someway it would be like sayong that TWI having forums is stepping on the toes of DB, which is certainly not true. However, I don't see the point in a mimic magazine either but I think the members of DB have the right to persue something unique on their own if they choose. That being said, it is going to be extremely difficult (in my opinion) to get the experienced keepers to write detailed articles for a DB magazine, as most are supporters and contributors to Leaf Litter. Even personally, if I wanted to write something (which I would love to do), I would write it for Leaf Litter first. That is why I am in favor of using the threads we already have by either linking to them or maybe even better summarizing them. This does not have to be a boring he said she said type thing. Some of these threads have 10+ pages of solid info. If a detailed person went through that you could sum up the main points in an interesting article someone could read and reference easily.

I am all for sharing knowledge, and while I think TWI's Leaf Litter is outstanding and all should want to read it, I know many will not. So I do not see the harm in organizing some of the info already on DB into an easy to use format, especially if it will aid better husbandry.

But, if you love frogs and very interesting articles, JOIN TWI!


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Part of the reason I see this idea as a duplication of efforts is because part of TWI's conservation goals deal heavily with captive husbandry (through programs like the ASN and being partners with AArk). So articles on care and husbandry are already a part of Leaf Litter (if not so much in the first two issues, definitely in the upcoming and subsequent issues as we already have articles and content submitted and lined up). The content of Leaf Litter covers a pretty broad range, including focuses on both _in situ_ and _ex situ_ work and themes.

This is not to say LL is the 'be all end all' publication on PDFs or amphibian care/conservation...but I do want to make it known that by focusing on care or husbandry issues, a new publication would not be covering anything unique, but as I said before, duplicating current efforts. I would think finding a different angle would be a better and more successful way to go about starting up something new. 

I personally feel that one of the biggest detriments to DB (by no fault of its own, but simply due to the nature of online BBs) is that many great and informative threads get lost in the shuffle and fall to the bottom of the stack. Compiling that information into some sort of reference (which also allows further conversation and information) would be fantastic. Even if this doesn't make it into whatever form this new mag may or may not take, I think doing something along these lines would greatly help the discussions taking place on DB regarding captive care and husbandry.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

skylsdale said:


> I personally feel that one of the biggest detriments to DB (by no fault of its own, but simply due to the nature of online BBs) is that many great and informative threads get lost in the shuffle and fall to the bottom of the stack. Compiling that information into some sort of reference (which also allows further conversation and information) would be fantastic. Even if this doesn't make it into whatever form this new mag may or may not take, I think doing something along these lines would greatly help the discussions taking place on DB regarding captive care and husbandry.


Exactly! I agree.


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## tItAnIuMhOpPeR (Jun 14, 2008)

I am new to this forum and the care of raising PDF's and amphibians in general. I am going to throw this out there as a completely different perspective than the last three and a half pages of info.

As I said above, I am new to this. That being said, people such as myself may just want to raise a frog or two. They may not want to get into the whole TWI thing. They may just be doing this for the pleasure and challenge of raising a pet or two. They may not be here "to help save the frogs". They may simply enjoy the hobby for a very simplistic reason. I think that is where the DB style e-zine would be very helpful. Not everyone wants to put in a few bucks for conservation for every species of pet they own to "conserve" its habitat. To some, that would end up being a lot of money each year. Some, like myself, may get into the hobby more if they were not forced to immediately help conserve a species they know little about. Through learning more and getting deeper into the hobby, they may, in time want to help out more. That will then lead them to things like TWI and ASN.

Now, please do not get me wrong here, I think that conservation of anything is a good idea. But there are people that would like it a little more simple, that is why they come to BB's such as this. It is a wealth of knowledge! For free!

Maybe everyone should view this new idea as a stepping stone towards TWI and not a dam to stop it.

Just my $.02 but I hope it helps give a new light.

Aaron
(tItAnIuMhOpPeR)


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

I can certainly see your point there Aaron. What if TWI was to make back issues of LL available to non members? That way members wouldn't feel slighted as they would be getting the newest issues as they were released, but non-members would have access to the previous ones a few moths after they're printed. In a sense creating a "try before you buy" approach to the magazine and all the other opportunities that come along with membership.


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

bellerophon said:


> I can certainly see your point there Aaron. What if TWI was to make back issues of LL available to non members? That way members wouldn't feel slighted as they would be getting the newest issues as they were released, but non-members would have access to the previous ones a few moths after they're printed. In a sense creating a "try before you buy" approach to the magazine and all the other opportunities that come along with membership.


i think that is a great idea , would help draw people to twi if it was linked to dendroboard say monthly.
craig


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

To be honest I don't think offering Leaf Litter for free is such a hot idea. LL was not the only reason I joined, but it was a big motivation to be honest. It might encourage some to join, but others might just happily wait to get it free and never contribute anything. If you listen to NPR you know how that goes. Lots listen, not as many donate. I think if LL is one day given out for free it shouldn't be because some people don't want to donate a few bucks a month to conservation, it should be based on the goals of TWI as they see fit. (This would be an awesome publication for schools!)

I also stress again, we should not be tying TWI with DendroBoard and vice versa. These are two different things. If TWI members want to do something like LL, they should not be looked at as jerks just because it is only offered to members, that is their right. Same goes for DB. If DB members want to spend the time putting together an e-zine, they should not be looked down upon by TWI members as they to have a right to do as they wish. TWI members should not feel obligated to support DB as DB members should not feel obliagted to support TWI. Two different groups with two different stated goals.

It also seems in some ways that people want this to happen, but they want someone else to write everything, the dart frogs gurus. Well most of those gurus on DB are TWI members and are going to focus their efforts there, which is why they joined TWI.

I hope I don't sound like a jerk, but I feel like TWI is getting a lot of unfair pressure from people who don't see the benefit to TWI. So whay should TWI offer this up to people who do not support it's cause?

If people want this e-zine then they should step-up and start working on it. It could be really cool. But I am more than happy with Leaf Litter, and happy to support those efforts.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I would expect an e-periodical to have things like articles and care sheets that are in-depth and informative. Current info on husbandry techinques, science, and conservation. Classified sections. Pictures of tanks, plants, and frogs. Listings of upcoming events and some advertising. 

Wait...isn't that what DB has already?

Seriously, between DB and LL, we already have great places to go to read about stuff. What we need is more people writing about stuff. We could also use more organization of the articles and care sheets.

Write and submit an article! Leave a legacy!


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Exactly. Use what we have.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

What has been proposed for an e-zine has actually been on the drawing board for TWI since the beginning but we've never gotten the right volunteers to lead the charge. For the outset we always envisioned having a knowledgebase where people could find in-depth and well-formatted articles on husbandry issues. There are two things needed to make this happen. One is a review process for the information to separate the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately, the nature of forums allows a lot of misinformation to be perpetuated and stored with the good stuff so some quality control is needed. Second, the information has to be synthesized, rewritten, and reformatted for easy reading. It would be a lot of work, but would be a useful resource if successful. In discussion within TWI, we felt that a Wiki was the most practical way to approach it. I know that LL requires hundreds of hours of volunteer time and thousands of dollars worth of donated photographs to produce each issue so an e-zine is not an easy thing to do. 

As far as free back issues of LL, I wouldn't hold your breath. We have always envisioned offering free sample issues or articles as soon as we have enough issues under our belt to make it fair to our members. Each time a new issue of LL comes out, there is a pulse in new members, and it is the members who make the organization work. We do plan to provide a try before you buy, but it will be limited.


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## tItAnIuMhOpPeR (Jun 14, 2008)

Mywebbedtoes said:


> I also stress again, we should not be tying TWI with DendroBoard and vice versa. These are two different things. If TWI members want to do something like LL, they should not be looked at as jerks just because it is only offered to members, that is their right. Same goes for DB. If DB members want to spend the time putting together an e-zine, they should not be looked down upon by TWI members as they to have a right to do as they wish. TWI members should not feel obligated to support DB as DB members should not feel obliagted to support TWI. Two different groups with two different stated goals.



Amen!!!! As for the free back issues, I could see that bringing in some more members such as myself. To be quiet honest with you folks, if I had the know how of the husbandry of PDF's I would write some articles. I have said it before, I am new to this. I have all of the time in the world to volunteer to DB or TWI. Unfortunately, I do not have the information needed to be of any help. I am in a learning process, as most are. I have no job and am on disability so I have the time.

I support verbally the efforts of things like TWI and ASN. But I think that it maybe a little easier for some to just have back issues of LL and the free stuff here on DB. That is all some will ever need. I have the plans to one day become a member of TWI and ASN. I have a lot of learning to do and something like a DB based e-zine would be great to bring me up to the caliber needed to full participate in TWI and ASN and be of help. But I still feel that both would only help this hobby grow. All the while, I do not feel that they would hinder each other. It is kinda like fishing with live bait, you do not put the minnow on your hook and call it a day, you sit and wait patiently for the big fish to come along. It is kinda the same thing here. DB and a free e-zine would lure people to TWI and help the over all cause. Which I think is what is needed.

Thanks for letting me put my $.02 in again. I like this board and the people on it. You are all friendly (from what I have seen) and are all concerned about the same thing, just on different levels. Saving the frogs.

Aaron


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

Would any one that is interested in movie forward with this project please e-mail me.. PM are getting to hard to reply too. Where possibley heaed in the right derection with this. But i need every one on the same page so we can get this off the ground. 
Brian


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## waltpastor (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi all,

I just recently joined the board (I have kept darts since 02' or 03' though) but in my opinioon the boards could use a "section", doesnt have to be a "magazine", that takes the best topics/threads every month and summarizes, consolidates, organizes, and formats them to make them easier to read and understand. Our current format for topics is a great way of expressing ideas and working through them with others who share the hobby, but they can make it more cumbersome for research or casual reading (seeing what others are trying). The articles would essentialy cut through the BS, lay out the facts and pics in formated manner that was easier to read and understand. 
This should in no way step on the toes of TWI which seems like a worthwhile institution that I will have to look into. If you are looking for an experts advice this would be where to go without a doubt. However, what I think we could use would be a more consise way of sharing what others in the hobby are trying. I believe Kyle has tried this a little but a team of regular workers who identify worthy threads, and rewrite and design them and after there months addition is up, catalog them for later searches could really provide the site with a index of information. 

Sincerely, 

Walter


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

I like that idea! Thanks, Walter


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## Brock (Jun 29, 2007)

This concerns everyone who was interested in starting this project up and getting it off the ground.

I just talked to Brian Ferriera, and he told me I was the only person who sent him an e-mail!

He informs me that we are able to get a site hosted for free, but we need someone to do the coding on the webpage.

I guess though if we can do it on DB, we don't need that. But we do need more than just Brian and I....

So anyone interested contact me or Brian, I think Brian has a better idea of things but I'd be happy to accomodate you however I can :lol:


Oh almost forgot:

You can contact me at [email protected]
Brian is [email protected]


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I like Walters idea and it is sort of what we have already with the care sheet creation section. Work has sort of fell off there as everyone including myself has been really busy. Personally I am starting to get caught up with work and etc so I may get some free time come fall. There are a couple article type sheets that I have written with help and some others that we link to.

Maybe the concept of expanding the care sheets section and writing more articles based on based discussions is the way to go as honestly I would prefer to promote TWI than create anything that would compete with it.


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## morselchip (Jul 17, 2008)

I don't think I can help any, but I am very excited about the idea. Maybe take threads that are interesting and just write a little synopsis with the 'final verdict' ? That would be a good place for people to go if they are looking for info.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

waltpastor said:


> the boards could use a "section", doesnt have to be a "magazine", that takes the best topics/threads every month and summarizes, consolidates, organizes, and formats them to make them easier to read and understand. Our current format for topics is a great way of expressing ideas and working through them with others who share the hobby, but they can make it more cumbersome for research or casual reading (seeing what others are trying). The articles would essentialy cut through the BS, lay out the facts and pics in formated manner that was easier to read and understand.


Great discussion folks!

I know a few others have mentioned this idea briefly, but this same thought has occurred to me as I have read through the mag discussion. A fine idea, Walter! I think this would make DB better for newer and older hobbyists alike. I know there are many topics and ideas I (and others) have not had the opportunity to read about that preceded the time I joined this site, but just the same, since I have been around there have been loads of great discussions and techniques mentioned (most of which are now buried) that could be of great benefit to many. Summaries and links to past threads of import and interest would be enjoyable and an asset to DB, the hobby, and most importantly the living things for which we are all trying to give exceptional care, in my opinion. A mag sounds neat, but a subforum or something similar would be easy to start and not too hard to manage. If done well, each summary could read like an article.. I bet if interested parties started searching for and collecting quality threads they remember fondly, there would be some really cool/valuable info made available; which would probably take quite a while to sift through - I can think of at least half a dozen or more I've seen in under a year that are worth reading again (most especially for the first time). 

One of my interests is plants, which I think comes naturally after being in this hobby for a while - it took me many months to gain the basic knowledge I have now; which plants should do well in a tank, to what size many may grow, and even what kinds are available (and I still don't know half as much as I'd like) - wouldn't it be nice for new (and old!) members to be able to learn about plants and other topics from a collection of valuable articles/threads in one location. I would be glad to help, if I can.

Cheers,
Mike


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