# Help!..Don't know what this is.



## jcgso (Oct 10, 2008)

Yeterday i noticed one of my three orange terribilis sitting in the water dish, but his leg looked kind of bent in an odd way. I didn't think too much of it. Today, the leg looked almost backwards. On closer inspection, his knee looks like the flesh is eaten away and his leg is hanging behind him. Then I noticed this same "eaten away" look on another's rear leg. The third looks OK at this point. After taking some close up pics just now, I see that their leg bones are poking out.
I have never seen anything like this and have no idea what to do for them.
I'm attaching some pics, which are pretty disturbing to look at.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Is there any way to save them and is the third destined for the same?

Frog 1&2








Frog 1








Frog 2


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

...Vet immediately... Even then... 

What's the enclosure like? Looks like a really bad compact fracture.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Looks like an infection that spread inward. How often have they been sitting in the water? More than usual? Can you post a tank pic showing layout with substrate visible? How often are they misted? Bill


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

OMG how awful! I'd move the 3rd one to a clean QT asap.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes, quarantine and vet! Their bones are hanging out. This needs to be looked at immediately. 

The skin on the 2nd looks tight, like it's constricting on the wound. Almost like he got a cut on his knee and the skin slipped backwards. I'm not a vet, but the bones on #2 don't look necessarily broken to me. It almost looks more dislocated, but again a dislocation wouldn't explain a big exposed wound very well. See a vet.

I'm very sorry for you and them. What's the enclosure like?


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## jcgso (Oct 10, 2008)

They are in a new 40 breeder. i've had them almost four weeks. They have been in the water more than usual the last week. I mist once a day. I took the third out and put him in a QT. 
It is weird how it's the same spot on both frogs.










Two in water are affected. male on right has been removed.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Your picture you provided is what I expected. In my experience and in my opinion they are being kept to moist or too humid. I tried keeping terribilis many times over the years in accordance with what people say they need just to watch them die after noticing them in the water more than usual, usually showing open wounds on the underside. Many frogs gravitate towards water when not doing well, this is a symptom to watch for. I began asking questions of keepers of terribilis that were doing well and the common theme that kept coming up was they kept them not as moist. So I tried them again, with spaghnum as the substrate kept barely damp, a water bowl, and a decent layer of oak leaves on top of moss. They are misted a couple times a week, the sides of the tank never fog up, and now I am in my second year breeding mints. My personal opinion is not a good outcome on those two with leg problems, but good luck, Bill


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

My first thought was actually fracture not infection. But either could be the case.

I would move that light 6 inches off the tank [terribs are very heat sensitive frogs IME]

Personally I think those 2 are gonners Im afraid. Best a Vet can do is give you an Antibiotic topical and even then, the odds are not good.

Ive kept terribs in very moist tanks, no issues, so I cant really comment on the theory of humidity leading to illness. Could be coincidence. Although I usually do not house PDF in sphagnum bottom tanks other then short term QT. 

In the immediate term, there are some aquatic fish GEL antibiotics you can pick up at the pet store and apply to the wounds 3-4x day, until you decide if it is worth the Vet bill to proceed further.

Sorry


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

How do you think they would do if the bottom part of their legs were amputated? They look to be held on by little more than skin at this point.


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## jcgso (Oct 10, 2008)

Thanks for all of the input. Bill, I will cut back on the moisture on the remaining frog. So, hopefully it is not contageous.

Sports doc, what substrate do you use? That tank has sheet moss on one side and a mix of coco fiber, coco chips, fur chips and spaghnum on the other.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

sports_doc said:


> Ive kept terribs in very moist tanks, no issues, so I cant really comment on the theory of humidity leading to illness. Could be coincidence.


I don't think it is necessarily the humidity but I've seen a number of terriblis develope lesions in the feet that looked like mycobacterium infections (although most were not positive on necropsy). The only trend I've seen with it, was a poorly drained substrate. When I've dealt with them in well drained enclosures, I have not seen the lesions (but that could be coincidence as well). 

In the case that is going on here, they need immediate veterinary care. 

Ed


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## jcgso (Oct 10, 2008)

Just a quick update. All frogs were lost. I do appreciate the help though.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear bro.....Never a fun or happy time losing our animals.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Any lab work done, necropsy, histo, etc.?


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