# Choosing darts



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Hi everybody! So, after stalking people on dendroboard for a little over two years, its time for me to choose a species for my first dart frog. This is not as simple as you might think. If it was up to me I'd have a rack of tanks by now, or several racks. However, I am married to a wonderful girl who cannot stand bugs, and until she married me was petrified by pretty much everything that moves (except grizzly bears, she thinks they are cute....), and even some things that don't. When a house plant developed fungus gnats, she freaked out when one flew in front of her face, ran out of the room and refused to come back in until I had gotten rid of it. I've been married for 27 months, and she has gotten over most of her fears. She even bought me a jungle carpet python for our first anniversary. Awesome. But she still flips a little if she sees bugs flying around, which has made it pretty difficult to convince her to let dart frogs and the accompanying fruit flies into the house, even if the flies are wingless.

After several conversations that involved me trying to get her to pick a frog she liked (btw if things arent geometrical she thinks they look diseased), I managed to settle on Leucs, variabilis, cobalts, and possibly green auratus. She also like Ranitomaya uakarii, based off of the UE website, but didnt like them in other photos. Again, if it was up to me, I'd get all of them. But one viv is it for now, until I'm finished with school, which will be several years...

The main characteristic I'm looking for is visibility, as I want her to see the frogs and not be disappointed they are hiding all the time, which happened with the carpet python until it put on some size. She would also like something larger, which kind of rules out thumbnails, but she really likes the colours on the variabilis so they may be an option. So, in your experience, which of these make the best display animal, in terms of visibility and movement in the viv? The viv is not completely planted yet, as I am waiting until I (technically she lol) have decided whether we are getting a more arboreal or terrestrial species. 

In terms of difficulty of care, I dont believe that will be an issue for me, as I am pretty experienced with caring for a wide variety of animals, including hyperactive ADD children... LOL


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## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

First off it was nice to meet you yesterday

Second I will provide my opinion on the frogs you mentioned.

Tincs - are great showy frogs, they are large and have no issue sitting out in the open to be viewed. However in general they don't do well in anything but a pair

Leucs - not as large and showy as the Tincs but still a wonder frog that you will love to watch. A bit better of a group frog and still one of my favorites

Auratus - Good in groups but can be elusive

Variabilis - yes they are small not as bold as other frogs, but for a thumbnail they are quite active and viewable, plus they do well in groups so in a large tank you could have quite a few and see at least some all the time. I have a 2.2 group and can always see at least one frog out and about


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## FRISCHFROGS (Jan 15, 2012)

It is not just wives that hate bugs, roommates too!
Fun pic!


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Haha, great picture! Welcome to the community 

What size enclosure are you able to work with, may I ask? A 20 gallon or larger? Out of your choices, it will come down to Dendrobates leucomelas and D. tinctorius cobalts ad both are extremely bold, always out and about! The latter will be bigger of course while the former will blow the other -- and you both -- away with their canary like call! D. leucomelas may be kept in groups as well whereas D. t. cobalts are restricted to pairs to prevent 'fights-to-the-death'! I would highly recommend both as a first frog and as a bold frog, although I think the CANARY might edge out the victory here because of its call and the group aspect! 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/14606-dendrobates-azureus-tinctorius-novice.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/13015-dendrobates-leucomelas-novice.html


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## love_chariot (Sep 1, 2011)

Yay frogs! 

My 2 cents about picking a species.

Tincs: Tincs are large (saw a azureus the size of a fist) and active. Certain morphs can be a little shy, but they are terrestrial and eat alot. My Bakhuis follow each other around and my oyapocks sit out in view all day. Never dissapointed with tincs, but they should be kept only in pairs unless your viv is 75+ gallons to avoid fighting. Reletively easy to obtain.

Leucs: Easy to obtain. Can be raised in groups. Noisy call. Mine are a little shy, but during the day they all sit out together waiting for chow. These guys are the cactus of the dart world. They are tough and resilient and can deal with the widest variety of temps and humidities and tank layouts. Mine are in a hex and live in the makeshift tree. If you want something visible and vocal, these guys are the best beginner. 

Auratus: Can be shy based on morph, some bolder than others. Beautiful metallic coloration on some. Can be raised in groups. They like to climb. Shouldn't be difficult to obtain. I love the super blues and can't wait til I have a viv and some. 

Galacs: Medium sized frog with bold colors on black underbelly, certain morphs look like terriblis with full color (moonshine). These guys love to climb and can be raised in groups. Weirder breeding tendencies so read the care sheet. Just got a couple of 95% oranges and I love them. They are fun frogs that can handle higher temps, included a pic of one of mine hiding in the foliage on the back wall. 

Don't forget imitators. They are thumbs that can be bold, and they mimic the calls of other frogs. I love the banded imi and have heard nothing but praise for folks about any of their morphs of imitator. 

The choice is up to you, since you said you want visibility and character, I would go Leucs, they are active, bold and call loudly once they reach maturity. You will never forget they are in there. But just plan ahead on getting addicted. Once you fill one viv, you will want to fill more.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

For clarification purposes, Ranitomeya imitator mimics the visual appearance of other frogs and not the vocal call, which I'm sure is what you meant


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

check out vittatus, they're a great group frog and pretty easy


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll look into the answers in more detail later. The viv that is in need of frogs... 65 gallon by the way.

Jake


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Great footprint! Ask your gal pal to check out Phyllobates terribilis as well, their demeanor is impressively bold -- when you are the KING of Poison Dart Frogs in the Wild, would YOU be fearful?? -- and they have spectacular solid coloration plus pleasant calls as well like D. leucomelas! 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/13856-phyllobates-terribilis-bicolor-novice.html

I'm getting a small group in about two months for my Colombian biotope 90 vert tank(just allowing the plants to get a foothold and headstart before the PIGGERS arrive), I can't wait! Oh, they are able to crunch down larger prey as well like crickets


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

That tank would be great for some terribilis!


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

After half an hour online looking at pictures, we're down to leucs, green auratus, and possibly terribilis, which she was happy to hear eat crickets... LOL 
The truth is I'm hoping that once we have them she'll like them so much she'll want more 

I'm going to rule out thumbnails for this tank because of their size,based on her preference for larger animals. Dang it... 

Jake


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Heck yeah man! Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeel her in with the FIRST frog, then it's all GRAVY after that...hehehhe  Costa Rican Green and Black auratus are 'fairly' visible, semi bold frogs.......I still think you guys will be a lot happier with D. leucomelas and/or P. terribilis as your first frogs though, based on the MALES quite audible call...and their boldness factor. The leucs will be all over the tank, up and down(they like to climb a little), whereas the terribs will be.........well, let's just say, QUITE EEEEEEAAAAGER when it comes time to feeding time(re: STOCKY)...............a very good toss up between the two, honestly....heck, I'm getting excited for you guys AND that beautiful tank!!  I'm getting the "Mint" form by the way but I hear good things for the yellow and orange terribs as well! 

Cast that line out and reeeeeeel her in! Hmm, that analogy might not work, since you ALL READY HAVE HER.....but you know what I mean! *grin*


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## heckler (Dec 28, 2011)

Out of those 3, I would probably go with the auratus, but if its a large animal you want, then terribilis is probably the best bet. I started out with Vittatus which I love, and grabbed some imitator varadero as well. The varadero are constantly out and using every inch of their viv.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

yours said:


> Heck yeah man! Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeel her in with the FIRST frog, then it's all GRAVY after that...hehehhe  Costa Rican Green and Black auratus are 'fairly' visible, semi bold frogs.......I still think you guys will be a lot happier with D. leucomelas and/or P. terribilis as your first frogs though, based on the MALES quite audible call...and their boldness factor. The leucs will be all over the tank, up and down(they like to climb a little), whereas the terribs will be.........well, let's just say, QUITE EEEEEEAAAAGER when it comes time to feeding time(re: STOCKY)...............a very good toss up between the two, honestly....heck, I'm getting excited for you guys AND that beautiful tank!!  I'm getting the "Mint" form by the way but I hear good things for the yellow and orange terribs as well!
> 
> Cast that line out and reeeeeeel her in! Hmm, that analogy might not work, since you ALL READY HAVE HER.....but you know what I mean! *grin*



Terribs are a great frog... They eat anything that can fit in their mouths! Leucs would be nice in there too, you'll see lotsa yellow spots all over the tank as Alex said. I have both leucs and 'mint' terribs and it's a toss up which frogs like like more. I used to have auratus and I never saw them unless it was feeding time. lol. You'll be happy with leucs or terribs.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

And Leuc's it is... Except now she wants blue and green frogs. Looks like there will be another dart frog viv soon... 

Jake


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Hahah SCORE! I might have to take you FISHING 'cause you certainly REEL'ed her in GOOD! *grin* 

Congratulations. You won't be upset at all with the 'Bumblebee' Dart Frog as your first.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

LOL. Where do you fish?

Jake


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Haha... Looks like some tincs may be in your future too huh?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Tincs, Auratus, Imitators, GTP's, Sceloporus... LOL 

Jake


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Jake, Great post!! I love the pic with your kid in the viv. You've obviously have a great sense of humor. You can't go wrong with leucs's as a first frog. Had you not already decided I probably would have recommended P. bicolor. A little less expensive than terribillis. Same great loud call as leucs, and a great bold group frog. Or, if you really want auratus which can be shy, I recommend some El Cope auratus. Mine were kinda shy as juvis, but now that they are adults they are active and out all the time, even to the point of not running away when I open up the viv, and they look just spectacular. Just my two cents worth. Good luck buddy, I look forward to more posts from you.

Jon

Here's a pic of some El Cope's


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

LOL! He's my best friends kid. I hope he's not mine! LOL!

Seriously though, nice frogs! Thanks for the incentive for more vivs! I'm not sure if showing her more frogs now would help after we already decided on leucs... might send the decision making process back to square one 

Jake


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

jacobi said:


> LOL! He's my best friends kid. I hope he's not mine! LOL!
> 
> Seriously though, nice frogs! Thanks for the incentive for more vivs! I'm not sure if showing her more frogs now would help after we already decided on leucs... might send the decision making process back to square one
> 
> Jake


Or the complete opposite and she'll want a couple more vivs


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

See what you do is go buy another viv and come home with it and say "Honey look what fell into the trunk of the car."


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

No, no, no... you get an empty viv, some orchids, and maybe some african violets and say... hey honey, I love you so much, I'm gonna let you design this viv however you want it... you can even have flowers and orchids in there!


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Lol. Funny guys... Anyway, thanks be unto the US constitution, which allows any idiot to sue any other idiot, which then requires a jury, who get paid $40 a day, no matter how long you're there for, I just got paid $200 for watching a movie, reading two books, and listening to lawyers babble and piss off a judge for about 3 hours. Best part about it was that it was the the week after finals, so it didn't interfere with school or work. Awesome.
WILL TAKE JURY DUTY FOR FROG MONEY!

Jake


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Haha... I hope I get called into jury duty soon. I could use a few days off from work.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

jacobi said:


> LOL. Where do you fish?
> 
> Jake


Where ever YOU do, man! You're the EXPERT here, clearly *grin*


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## love_chariot (Sep 1, 2011)

For your green/blue next frog, show her pics of Super Blue Auratus or highland bronze, they can range in the same colors. I put the pic from herpetolgic of some of his older specimens of highland bronze on here. Also show her galacs, they are brightly colored, bold and climb all over. I have one that sits and stares me down all day and doesn't even flinch when I move up close. Leucs are amazing on a side note. If you aren't the biggest fan of bugs, I learned about a new way to make a clay substrate that creates the perfect breeding ground for microfauna. That way you aren't having to feed so often. The person who showed it to me uses it with thumbs and only has to feed like once every couple days. The isos and springs keep his frogs fat and happy. GOOD LUCK


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

yours said:


> Where ever YOU do, man! You're the EXPERT here, clearly *grin*


I live in Brooklyn! There's nowhere local to fish without a boat, and anyway, anything from this area of the Hudson... Yuck. I need to find a spot, fairly local... Anybody know of anything fairly close that wont cost an arm and a leg in EZ pass fees and gasoline? Maybe Long Island... 
Dammit. Hijacking my own thread. Is that allowed? 

Jake


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

love_chariot said:


> For your green/blue next frog, show her pics of Super Blue Auratus or highland bronze, they can range in the same colors. I put the pic from herpetolgic of some of his older specimens of highland bronze on here. Also show her galacs, they are brightly colored, bold and climb all over. I have one that sits and stares me down all day and doesn't even flinch when I move up close. Leucs are amazing on a side note. If you aren't the biggest fan of bugs, I learned about a new way to make a clay substrate that creates the perfect breeding ground for microfauna. That way you aren't having to feed so often. The person who showed it to me uses it with thumbs and only has to feed like once every couple days. The isos and springs keep his frogs fat and happy. GOOD LUCK


Do you mean this...? http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/22990-ultimate-clay-based-substrate-thread.html

By the way, nice frog! Yours? Auratus are one of my favourite frogs, purely based on colouration. So there are definitely some of those in my future... 

Rusty, how long have you had the El Copes for? 

Jake


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## love_chariot (Sep 1, 2011)

Yeah that thread on clay substrate is about what I was talking about, modified recipe to increase vitamins. The frog is a picture from herpetologic.net 
I just love the way they look and since you were asking about blue/green frogs I thought I'd share one of my favorites.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

jacobi said:


> Do you mean this...? http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/22990-ultimate-clay-based-substrate-thread.html
> 
> By the way, nice frog! Yours? Auratus are one of my favourite frogs, purely based on colouration. So there are definitely some of those in my future...
> 
> ...


Jake I've had my El Cope's since Oct. 2010. I'm not sure of the sex ratio for sure but I believe I have 4.2, possibly 3.3. Good regular breeders.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Due to a family medical emergency (mother-in-law had Whipple procedure done yesterday for pancreatic cancer), I wont be getting any frogs for several weeks, possibly a month.... All prayers for her and winning lottery tickets are kindly accepted. 

Jake


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

My thoughts are with you and your family, Jake!


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Thoughts and prayers go out to you and yours, Jake. Let's hope for a speedy recovery.


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