# Bad Plant Order or Good Deal?



## sampson1269

I ordered these plants the other day for a 20 gallon tank, 5 Broms as Growers choice and 5 ground covers and 2 vines for $60, I received 
1 Neoregelia Little Jewel, 1 Midget, 1 Chiquita Linda, 1 Night Spot, 1 Dungsiana as pups half the size of my hand, also
1 Ficus Pumila 'Quercifolia', 1 Ficus Pumila Minima, 1 Peperomia Prostrata, 1 Pilea Glauca, 1 Gynura Aurantiaca, 1 Hydrocotyle Verticillata and 1 Peperomia Sp. Bronze Leaves.
I don't know much about plants, but, from what i had read on here from people that ordered plants online is they were getting Broms with pups hanging off and really nice plants and their new tanks looked loaded when the got plants in and showed off their new plants. You tell me, Is this a deal?


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## sampson1269

last Plant


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## curlykid

believe me when i say this, broms grow so fast once they get established, about a month, so these should be fine. the other plants will grow like weeds too so don't worry!


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## hydrophyte

That's quite a bit for sixty bucks.


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## roxrgneiss

Was the shipping 20? j/k When you buy from a business you can expect pups, but usually the little vines are at least potted and established. Overall, it doesn't look like a bad deal based on variety.

Mike


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## sampson1269

Its not including shipping.


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## sampson1269

I just wasn't sure, so i thought i'd ask. The clippings were $5 for 1, Pups for $5 each.


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## sampson1269

Just trying to get opinions, like i said i have 0 experience in plants, last time i had darts all everyone used was pothos, just trying to catch up with the times and i didn't know a single clipping of a plant would be $5 each.


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## billschwinn

I have no idea on the price but from what I see you received cuttings with no roots?


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## markpulawski

Those pups seem pretty small for $5 but they are mostly small variety's, IMO broms don't grow real fast but some of those are full grown based on what they are for a 20 your tank will be more than full. If you have good light it will be a jungle in no time. I have seen pots with Dungsiana with 20+ broms for $10 but again you have to be at the right place at the right time. I would guess some bigger variety's would have come in at a larger size.


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## Pumilo

I typically ask what you are getting for that. Did they say unrooted cuttings or did they say established or bare root plants? Did they falsely represent it? If it said unrooted cuttings, it's tough to establish them if they are any bigger. Big cuttings have no root structure to try to supply all the leaves and you can have troubles with wilting and dying.


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## *Self_DeFenCe*

Doesn't look like a good deal to me, the vines are small portions. The Gynura aurantica is small, you can get a full plant for 4$. Broms are okay to me and the Peperomia prostata is also a good portion.


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## sampson1269

They said 5 ground cover and 2 vines, then when i read message when i went to order and i didn't pay attention at the time, it just said cuttings. I just noticed that tonight, i thought i was getting plants with roots. I should of asked more questions, but, hindsights 20/20. My first time with plants. I'm waiting for a reply on how to plant the cuttings and the Broms. Like i said, all we used years ago when i had frogs was pothos and i was a dime a dozen and grew like crazy.


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## davidadelp

It dont look like a good deal to me either. The broms look okay even though they are really small as they are still pups but the cuttings seem a little small specially not enough to fill a tank with. itll be that much harder if they are rootless


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## Jason DeSantis

I would say ok deal based on the variety you got. The broms are pretty small and will take some time to get to full grown. You should always make sure both buyer and seller are on the same page. The only plants I send out with no roots are hoyas and dischidias because even the extreme novice should not have a problem getting them to root in a terrarium. Anyway, good luck with them.
Jason


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## Pumilo

sampson1269 said:


> They said 5 ground cover and 2 vines, then when i read message when i went to order and i didn't pay attention at the time, it just said cuttings. I just noticed that tonight, i thought i was getting plants with roots. I should of asked more questions, but, hindsights 20/20. My first time with plants. I'm waiting for a reply on how to plant the cuttings and the Broms. Like i said, all we used years ago when i had frogs was pothos and i was a dime a dozen and grew like crazy.


A little help with what to do with them. For the plants, you can just stick the stem into the substrate like this. This is assuming you have a closed top, high humidity viv. i.e. a dart frog viv. This 3 inch cutting had no roots and was pushed in 4 or 5 days ago. Look closely at the base and you can see it rooting already.


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## Pumilo

You could also set up a plastic tub or 10 gallon tank with a glass top. Put some moist sphagnum at the bottom and nestle the stems down into it. The will root quickly and you can grow them out a little if you'd like to. These are under a 65K cheap, T8 Lowe's shop light.
Broms will rot in sphagnum so you'll notice I pulled all the sphag away and they are just sitting on the bottom. This is just a temporary storage for them. Fill the center of the brom with water.


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## Pumilo

Here is another way to plant bare root cuttings. This is a dome top planter. I filled it with ABG mix. Plants were all treated in a 10% bleach dip for 10 minutes so when they are rooted and I am ready, I just pull the whole clump out, ABG dirt and all, and plant it in my viv. Alternatively, I can leave it there and just take a cutting, leaving the rooted remnant to continue growing for the next viv.


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## Pumilo

Fully rooted and ready to go.


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## Pumilo

Brom mounting. Hold it up against your cork bark or tree fern panel and use toothpicks to hold it up until it roots. I don't use any sphagnum when I do this.


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## Pumilo

Brom mounting. Hold it up against your wood feature, ghost wood and cork in this case, and tie it on with fishing line or a plastic tie wrap. No sphagnum. You can see new root tips in the last shot.


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## Pumilo

If it has a "stem" attached, you can drill an appropriately sized hole, nice and tight, and just push it in.


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## Pumilo

Vines. Just stick them in the substrate, whether you root them first or not. I like to use a series of toothpicks to hold them in place, trailing up the wall. In the first picture, you will see it is hard to even see the toothpicks holding it up.


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## Pumilo

Here is a tiny little 2" portion of a Margravia vine. I wrapped the bottom in sphagnum, held it up against the cork bark, and wrapped/tied fishing line around it. It has doubled in size quickly. Even small cuttings can do well for you. I find smaller cuttings actually root faster and show new growth sooner.


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## Pumilo

With all of these mounting methods, in a month or three, when they appear well rooted and well attached, you can pull the toothpicks out and/or cut the fishing line. Hope this helps you take care of your new babies!


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## sampson1269

Thanks everyone, I am kinda disappointed because i had told them i wasn't planning on doing a background, the tank is acrylic with blue sides and back and only has an opening on the top, although it has a misting nozzle on the back and a drain on the bottom. I assumed the broms could go in the ground because i saw them in pics on the site in pots. I guess i'll change my plans and try to find some cork bark somewhere. I do have a big biodome for starting seeds i can put everything in til i find everything i need. I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. I'm sure these plants will look nice once they get mounted and grow out. I'm gonna have a busy evening, lol. 
Again thanks everyone, especially on the growing tips. The also sent me some planting instructions this morning, but, the pics help a ton for newbies like me!


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## markpulawski

Most broms do much better in pots but pots drain and tanks don't...usually. If you tank drains well you can put them in the substrate, and when I say drains I mean drilled tank that empties the water out.


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## sampson1269

I'm trying to locate Hydroton, altough i do have tons of bioballs. Also, the tank i bought these plants for is getting a false bottom and has a drain, so that helps.


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## Scott

Looks like a normal order to me.

Looks like a really good order to me.

s


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## sampson1269

After talking to everyone and the dealer and everything was explained to me why i got what i got and we are on the same page, i am satisfied with my order. I got great species of plants and from what i understand, it's hard to get a lot of clippings off plants this time of year unless you can keep a greenhouse heated year round. I should have asked more questions ahead of time and am not out to cause riff raff, i just wanted other peoples opinions. I will get everything in my biodome with some soil mix and the broms without and get everything situated in the tank so i will be ready when i pick up my frogs in a few weeks. I am glad i posted and i got a lot of great feedback, pics and info on planting what i have, so, I'll be in great shape and thanks everyone for all the help!


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## Pumilo

You can also mount them to a piece of cork bark that you will lean against the glass at a 45 degree angle, or a small square piece of cork bark nestled flat into the substrate and leaf litter so that it looks like its growing directly in the substrate. You use leaf litter to cover the cork. Mount them to a "fallen tree" cork bark tube just lying on the bottom of the viv.


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## goof901

hey pumilo, when u drill holes for the broms with stolons, do u want the holes to go all the way thru the cork bark, or just halfway thru?


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## Pumilo

goof901 said:


> hey pumilo, when u drill holes for the broms with stolons, do u want the holes to go all the way thru the cork bark, or just halfway thru?


I drilled all the way through. The stolen will then be used just as a mount until the roots grow and attach it even more firmly to the cork bark. You can see how the roots will grow from the base of the brom, NOT from the end of the stolen. If you mess up and the hole is too loose, jab a couple of toothpicks in there in a "V" pattern for support. 
Oh, I should have mentioned, when I use toothpicks, I push a tiny jewelers or hobby screwdriver in first to make a hole for the toothpick.


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## sampson1269

I had to do something to get the plants out of bags and have no types of soil so, i put all my plants in the floating Styrofoam trays that have holes thru them for plant plugs, kind of cone shaped. packed some sphagnum moss in the bottom of the holes and some around the bottoms of the plants since most dont have any roots. i also put the pups in them with the stolon sticking thru the bottom and added a half gallon of water and put the lid on to keep humidity in. waiting for AGB mix to come in so i can get them properly planted. will these plants root under these conditions or rot?


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## Pumilo

So you basically have damp sphagnum packed around the bottom half inch or so of each stem, right? Then they are floating on the water? Are the stems in the water? Is the sphagnum touching the water so that it is totally soaked?

The broms are not packed in sphagnum the same way, are they?


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## BR5

I've purchased plants from several of the sponsors and have always been satisfied. I now limit my purchases to plants that Lowes doesn't almost give me. I'm in there so much the plant guy will ask what I'm willing to pay once the plant goes to what I call the kill floor. Once I have too many on the window sill I wash them in a 10% bleach solution and plant them in ABG mix; I then place them in a grow out tank (pictured). This picture was taken in November; it's now so full nothing else will fit. I've picked up broms with 6 pups for $2.00, orchids for .50 and so on. Also if there's a local frog group you can usually pick up a gallon freezer bag of cutting for free.

Brian


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## sampson1269

The sphagnum is touching the water and around the bottoms of the cuttings, so the bottoms of the plants are wet. the broms are not wrapped in sphagnum. just sitting in the holes loosely. Just talked to seller and i need to drain all the water and leave them in the dome which will hold moisture in. Or leave some in bags but some need to be out of bags.


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## KeroKero

Besides echoing what others have said (great variety, broms are typical of the size you'd get as young stolons) I would also like to mention that I actually PREFER to get plants as unrooted cuttings/young plants, because even when I get them with roots, or in substrate I'm cleaning the substrate off and cutting off most of the roots. It's pretty common practice in the aquascaping trade too. The idea is that the roots are adapted to the conditions they are grown in, and since the plant is in new conditions you want it to grow new roots (and removing roots also means that the roots that are from very different conditions won't be rotting around the base of the plant). Young plants also are in growth periods anyways, so new growth is going to be adapted to the new conditions (which is why young pups of broms can transition faster than full sized plants). Exceptions to this rule are some veeeery slow growing epiphytes (like mounted orchids) where you basically get them mounted to something like cork bark. Usually you just hang those up in the tank  Typically plants grown in a greenhouse are under different conditions so what grows in a substrate there may not do as well in a high humidity/low air flow terrarium environment. That and it's harder to have a bunch of broms on sticks in a greenhouse than in nice orderly bark mixes in pots! Could you imagine what a jungle gym that would be? LOL, it actually sounds kinda fun if you can find big enough ones to support your weight, but still a logistical nightmare.

Soil substrates (again often good for greenhouses) may be too heavy for terrariums (not to mention may be host to some nasty stuff you don't want in terrariums, which is why most people at least wash their plants), so while you're massively increasing your shipping costs you're also going to be tossing most of it anyways. A good rule to have is always have a bag of good sphagnum moss (Black Jungle sells the good stuff!) which you can use to start cuttings on if they don't go directly in the tank. Just keep it away from sitting water... it wicks like a fiend and can rot your plants out from being a soggy mess! To get a good moisture level in sphanum you want to wring out most of the water and not get it too much wetter than that.

I'm pretty background lazy as well and usually just use pieces of aquarium driftwood and/or manzanita to mount the epiphytic plants on. I just tie or wedge them on and let them root. Gives a lot of good dimension to the tank as well.

Hope you enjoy the plants! Should be a cool variety.


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## littlefrog

If anybody wants bromeliads mounted on sticks... I can make that happen. I love growing them on cork. Don't have as many mounted as I used to (no greenhouse now, it is a bit more challenging) , but I still have lots, and can make more!.

I generally ship larger plants than what you got, but I'd say it was a fair deal. I agree that smaller plants and cuttings establish quickly and are easier to work with, but not everybody knows that so I usually send bigger. An example of smaller is better is almost any fern. Big ones that are overcrowded in their pots take time to grow again, little ones take off immediately.


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## dart8888

Pumilo said:


> I drilled all the way through. The stolen will then be used just as a mount until the roots grow and attach it even more firmly to the cork bark. You can see how the roots will grow from the base of the brom, NOT from the end of the stolen. If you mess up and the hole is too loose, jab a couple of toothpicks in there in a "V" pattern for support.
> Oh, I should have mentioned, when I use toothpicks, I push a tiny jewelers or hobby screwdriver in first to make a hole for the toothpick.



My eng is not too good.
I'm very curious the meaning of "stolen" or "stolon" ?
Can someone let me know what it is?
Thanks.


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## Pubfiction

Its just my opinion but if you are so new that you don't even know what the value of items are then I think its better to go with potted plants. Rooting cuttings yourself is not really hard but you can screw it up and different plants have different nuances. Not knowing what to expect can lead you to mess with it too much and kill it. I bought all my first plants rooted, cost more but then I at least knew they were alive and if I killed them it was my fault.


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## dart8888

I think I got it 
Although I googled the term, I couldn't get what it is exactly.
However, reading more post here, I got what it is.


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## oddlot

Basically the stolon is the stem/umbilical cord that connected the pup to the mother plant.They come in different angles and lengths depending on the individual plant and species.


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## Skidd

I know this is an old thread but I was dutifully searching the forum for mounting techniques and this was so helpful, thanks!


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