# Water source - using nut pods vs. building small pond?



## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Hello,

I was planning on building an 18X18X24 vivarium and put a couple tincs in it. I don't have any strong desire to build a waterfall or anything with moving parts, but thought it would be nice to give the frogs access to some water source.


I was considering a couple alternatives:

1. Build a standing pond using water from the false bottom. Looked at some posts by DendroDave: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/26612-petco-30-cube-finally-used-bought-over-year-ago-update.html where he had built a kind of corner pond using some wood with small straws underneath so the water is connected to the false bottom, so the water gets filtered by the substrate, and you can drain the false bottom from the pond I believe.

2. I already bought some "monkey pods" from NEHerp here: http://www.neherpetoculture.com/images/monkeypods.jpg Was considering sticking 2-3 of these in the leaf litter and putting water in them (and I assume they'd get some water from misting also). I think this would be a lot easier but I have a couple fears:
a. Would the monkey pods provide an adequate place for frogs to sit and soak if they wanted to? From my understanding, frogs will use a water source to soak if things get too dry or if they need to regulate their body chemistry.
b. Would they be suitable for an egg-laying/tadpole-hatching spot? I don't have an interest in producing large numbers of tadpoles, pulling the eggs, treating them with methylene blue and whatnot. I had read some people will just let the frogs raise the tadpoles within the viviarum, and some believe this leads to stronger offspring. I was hoping to go that route if possible.
c. Would the water in them get stagnant and have to be switched out frequently? This is probably my biggest concern. I'd be worried they'd fill up with algae or fungus or whatever and be unusable for the frogs for soaking or tadpoles.


I'm willing to try and build a small pond if that would be a lot better for the frogs. I think the one DendroDave made looks really sharp. My only worries are that I might not have a lot of real estate with 18X18 ground area, and I'm not great at DIY stuff.

I'd appreciate any feedback you all can provide.

Thane


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## Mike1239 (May 15, 2012)

Scrap the pond idea the substrate won't filter out much and without agitation to oxygenate the water beneficial bacteria will have a tough time growing. The seed pods will be the easiest hands down you would only need to dump and refill a couple times a week. And I would just dump it in to the tank and refill with mister no need to take out and clean.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Mike1239 said:


> Scrap the pond idea the substrate won't filter out much and without agitation to oxygenate the water beneficial bacteria will have a tough time growing. The seed pods will be the easiest hands down you would only need to dump and refill a couple times a week. And I would just dump it in to the tank and refill with mister no need to take out and clean.


Thanks Mike - That sounds simple enough. Do you think the nut pods would provide a suitable place for frogs to deposit eggs/raise tadpoles though? Like would I just plan on switching the water out regularly and then if I spot some eggs in there, leave them alone? I realize this is all hypothetical. I'm still pretty hazy on the tadpole stuff. I know people usually just put petri dishes under coco huts. I was going to make them a hide by cutting a cork stump in half rather than use a coco hut, so I could stick a petri dish under that if it's more suitable.

FYI I forgot to say earlier - these pods are about 2.5" diameter.


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## Mike1239 (May 15, 2012)

Frogs will lay them where they want. The best thing to do is offer many spots and they will still use a leaf with some water left in it. If you see eggs and want to leave them in there you can still mist the area gently to get some fresh water in there. Just make sure you will be using dechlorinated water eggs or no eggs


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Okay cool. I was planning on using reverse osmosis or distilled water for misting, cleaning, etc. - just have to check what's available in my area.

Thanks again,
Thane


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I am on the other side I like ponds as they offer access to the false bottom and I have seen many successful setups where the frogs transport to ponds. Actually most of my vivaria now have multiple small ponds in addition to other containers that hold water giving the frogs many choices. I have seen things go wrong here and there and having a pond for access to drain a tank or lower the water level is really nice.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Pubfiction said:


> I am on the other side I like ponds as they offer access to the false bottom and I have seen many successful setups where the frogs transport to ponds. Actually most of my vivaria now have multiple small ponds in addition to other containers that hold water giving the frogs many choices. I have seen things go wrong here and there and having a pond for access to drain a tank or lower the water level is really nice.


I was hoping someone might be able to comment on that also. Do you think 18X18 floor size would be too small to do a pond in the corner or on the side? My thinking was I'd just get like a 6-8 in. piece of manzanita wood and use that to section off a corner. 

Also, is it bad if the water is stagnant as opposed to having some sort of circulation? I didn't want to have to put in any pumps or moving parts that might break later. If you're not circulating the water, is there some other way to filter it or keep it clean? I'm sure you wouldn't be replacing that as often as you would with the smaller containers throughout the vivarium. 

I do like the idea of having easy access to the false bottom for draining (supposed to do that once or twice a year I believe?). Plus if I don't make a pond I think I'd still have to run a pipe down there for access.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

The ponds in all the tanks I have personally seen are "stagnant" there are fairly big breeders running tanks like this without any apparent problem. First the plants will drop their roots into the water, second your water level should never be allowed to rise up to say 3/4 of an inch or closer to the substrate, this is when it will stink and you will get problems if the water hits the substrate and you go anaerobic creating a bog. But otherwise I have not noticed a problem. You can also put emersed, riparian or floating plants in the pond to try to suck out more nutrients or make it look nice. 

As for floor space, if you manage floor space decently I think you can make up any ground you lose to a pond and more. I also don't think the dart frogs even like large ponds for deposition so its best to keep it fairly small anyway. personally I prefer things like rocks or non organics to make the pond walls but I have seen plenty that have wood going into them. 

Here is an example of an 18x18 floor space with a rather large pond I keep a group of _D. auratus _in. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/115298-splitface-18x18x24h-exoterra.html

The most important issue with ponds are, first make sure that water can flow between the pond and the drainage layer. Second make absolutely sure that where ever the water flows cannot possibly let a dart frog through. If they get under there which they might you will probably lose them or be forced to rip the tank apart. I like to use gravel or some substrate in the bottom to make it look nice but also allow me to move it away if I need to drain it. However some people dislike gravel as it makes it harder to catch tadpoles.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Pubfiction said:


> Here is an example of an 18x18 floor space with a rather large pond I keep a group of _D. auratus _in.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/115298-splitface-18x18x24h-exoterra.html
> 
> The most important issue with ponds are, first make sure that water can flow between the pond and the drainage layer. Second make absolutely sure that where ever the water flows cannot possibly let a dart frog through. If they get under there which they might you will probably lose them or be forced to rip the tank apart. I like to use gravel or some substrate in the bottom to make it look nice but also allow me to move it away if I need to drain it. However some people dislike gravel as it makes it harder to catch tadpoles.


Thanks, that gives me some good guidance. Your vivarium, and the one from DendroDave that I had linked to above give me a good idea what a small pond would look like in that size tank. I think I might end up doing a small corner pond and still use the nut pods to give the frogs some variety if they want it.

I was aware of the need to prevent frogs from getting into the false bottom. I could see that causing some panic if they got in there.

My plan was something like this: I was going to use the LECA balls or expanded glass for the false bottom. Then find a kind of wider, flatter piece of Manzanita wood to section off a corner and form a "shoreline" that's at kind of a low slope so frogs can climb in and out easily. Silicone in the wood to the vertical walls on either side, but leave a gap below for water to flow between the false bottom and the pond. To prevent frogs from getting under the wood I was going to put in multiple layers of screen going all the way to the bottom of the tank and silicone all around them, like screen off all of the rest of the false bottom from the corner pond. Then was going to cover the screen with some rocks to hide it. I would think with this setup it should look nice and natural, and if any froggies go poking their heads down there, they'd have to first move aside some gravel then they'd run into screen.

How does that sound?


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