# Crazy Fruit Fly Mix I'm glad I tried it !!!



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

So I made power mix at home and put some fruit flys in it and put it in my incubator and after one day I have larva its crazy. Stuff


----------



## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

So what is power mix?


----------



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

its a recipe of doylesdartden.com it produces mad flys in double the time and twice as much it seems


----------



## brian (Jul 9, 2009)

You mean the Chis Miller "Power Mix" ?

Fruit Flies-Doyle's Dart Den


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

yeah, it works well with melano, but not for hydei! i used to use this mix when i was firt int eh hobby, it was very common back then.


----------



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

What do you use now if you don't mind me asking is it better?


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

I was using Josh's media, but now i make my own,
6 cups of potatoe flakes
2 cups of brewers yeast
1 cup of powdered sugar
3 table spoons of cinnamon


----------



## brian (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm using this mix, very simple and goes very good for both melanos and hydei... (Lots of flys in all cultures)

Potatoe flakes (115 grs)
Vinager (100 ml)
Peach juice (500 ml)
brewers yeast (16 grs)


----------



## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

Thanks, I've been reading through posts looking for some recipes to try because the prices to buy it from vendors is getting way to high. I'd rather save money doing it myself and spend the extra cash on new frogs.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

brien said:


> its a recipe of doylesdartden.com it produces mad flys in double the time and twice as much it seems



Well given that that production time of the flies is genetically and thermally controlled, this is highly unlikely. Total amount of flies produced from a culture is based on a number of things including but not limited to protein content of the media and the genetics of the flies. If you culture from the first bloom, you will select your flies to be intolerant of conditions post first emergence from the pupa which means that you will get one big population boom and then the entire culture will crash, while flies selected that are more tolerant of conditions later in the culture do not have as large a initial boom but it continues over a longer period of time. 

Ed


----------



## Occidentalis (Jul 11, 2009)

Ed said:


> Well given that that production time of the flies is genetically and thermally controlled, this is highly unlikely. Total amount of flies produced from a culture is based on a number of things including but not limited to protein content of the media and the genetics of the flies. If you culture from the first bloom, you will select your flies to be intolerant of conditions post first emergence from the pupa which means that you will get one big population boom and then the entire culture will crash, while flies selected that are more tolerant of conditions later in the culture do not have as large a initial boom but it continues over a longer period of time.
> 
> Ed


Does this directional selection occur after just one selection event, or over a period of selection events?


----------



## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

Ed said:


> Well given that that production time of the flies is genetically and thermally controlled, this is highly unlikely. Total amount of flies produced from a culture is based on a number of things including but not limited to protein content of the media and the genetics of the flies. If you culture from the first bloom, you will select your flies to be intolerant of conditions post first emergence from the pupa which means that you will get one big population boom and then the entire culture will crash, while flies selected that are more tolerant of conditions later in the culture do not have as large a initial boom but it continues over a longer period of time.
> 
> Ed


When I make new cultures I typically mix flies from several cultures of very age. Does this reduce the crashes because I rarely have a culture crash??


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Julio said:


> yeah, it works well with melano, but not for hydei! i used to use this mix when i was firt int eh hobby, it was very common back then.


I don't know what you are doing differently, but I have great results with this mix and hydei...only seen one that out performs it...


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey Brian, i dont' use that mix anymoer i have not used it in well over 10 years.


----------



## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

Ed--what mix are you using?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Occidentalis said:


> Does this directional selection occur after just one selection event, or over a period of selection events?


I would suspect over a period of selection but the pressures are pretty intense.. it will also depend on how the culture(s) were made before you got them. Based on the data, I suspect the polymorphism for these traits occurs in the population normally and one could rapidly select for intolerance if cultures were primarily made on the first day of emergence. 

There was a fair bit of discussion (as well as a link to a paper here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/42419-genetics-ff-culturing.html) 

Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Jellyman said:


> When I make new cultures I typically mix flies from several cultures of very age. Does this reduce the crashes because I rarely have a culture crash??


It reduces crashes due to gentiic intolerance. There used to be a lot more discussion about cultures crashing due to over population or people only getting one bloom out of the cultures along with a lot of speculation on the causes... now we have a really good idea as to the cause and how to deal with it. 


Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

TDK said:


> Ed--what mix are you using?


 I use a mix that has 10 cups of the carolina bio supply media with the following 8-10 cups potato flakes, 1/2 cup brewer's yeast, and 1 cup of powdered sugar. I tend to make my cultures up at 6 large (32 ounce) cultures at a time and when I mix it up I add about 1 tablespoon of spirulina/per cup of dry media and if there are any over ripe banana's around I'll throw that in as well (more to keep from wasting it, than any possible benefit)(at the rate of 1 banana per cup dry media). 

This media works for me for both hydei and melanogaster. 

Ed


----------



## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

As for the first post there is no way you you saw maggots in a day that has to be an exageration


----------



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

I swear I did I'll take pics next time


----------



## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

A day is just a ridiculously small amount of time for your flies to lay eggs, eggs to hatch and the maggots to grow large enough that you could see them

Is this mix radioactive haha


----------



## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Ed said:


> Well given that that production time of the flies is genetically and thermally controlled, this is highly unlikely. Total amount of flies produced from a culture is based on a number of things including but not limited to protein content of the media and the genetics of the flies. If you culture from the first bloom, you will select your flies to be intolerant of conditions post first emergence from the pupa which means that you will get one big population boom and then the entire culture will crash, while flies selected that are more tolerant of conditions later in the culture do not have as large a initial boom but it continues over a longer period of time.
> 
> Ed


very interesting thanks for sharing that ed. i always use flies from cultures that are about 2/3s of the way through their life cycle and ive never had a culture crash.


----------



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

I would put a hundred on it they are always tiny larvae but I can see them easily


----------



## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Well maybe I'll just have to try out that media


----------



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

I use flightless flys and have incubators but the wingless take about 3 days to see larvae


----------



## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

How warm are those incubators?


----------



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

Always 78 degrees


----------



## Marc (Feb 3, 2008)

julio,

do you use boiling or cold water to start off the culture? (Josh's mix uses boiling water)

Marc


----------



## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

I can't remember the exact ingrediants off the top of my head but I boil all the liquid ingrediants also I blend it first to make sure it's mixed well then I blend all the dry and as it's still boiling I slowly pour one spoon at a time to make sure it doesn't all just clump up


----------



## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Julio, I want to use your recipe, whats the water to to media ratio for a single culture? I'm so over using vinegar, yuck!


----------



## bruce (Feb 23, 2007)

Personally I can't speak high enough of the praises of the "grape juice mix" formula. I used to make it in batches of four in a soup pot. It produced well in the winter and summer months and always was predictable with all ff used


----------



## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

julio- 2 cups of brewers yeast sounds like a lot. I am wanting to try you media mix. It sound to easy.


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Eric Walker said:


> julio- 2 cups of brewers yeast sounds like a lot. I am wanting to try you media mix. It sound to easy.


Well, all the yeast adds more protein and gives me higher fly yields, but that is what works for me, some people use a different method with great results.


----------



## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

julio- i think someone allready asked but how much water to dry mix 
are you useing. and does it work the same for melo and hydei


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i use 1/3 media and 2/3 water


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Julio, 

Are you using vinegar or methyl paraben? I tried your mix and got mold like I have never seen in my life . . . it wreaked!! Haha!


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

melas said:


> Julio,
> 
> Are you using vinegar or methyl paraben? I tried your mix and got mold like I have never seen in my life . . . it wreaked!! Haha!


hahahah, no i dont' use either or, funny cause none of mine ever mold, what brand of flakes and sugar are you using?


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Julio said:


> hahahah, no i dont' use either or, funny cause none of mine ever mold, what brand of flakes and sugar are you using?


I'll have to get back to you on that . . . it was all generic stuff from walmart. I'm going to try it again with methyl paraben this time!


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

also what temps are you keeping yoru flies at? mine are usually at a constant 74-78 degrees.


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Mid 70's . . .


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Are you dumping a ton of flies int eh new cultures or just a few?


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

~50 . . . if this is hijacking this thread feel free to pm me . . .


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey, no worries, i woudl add a ton of flies, i normally add about 200-250 flies per culture, you will also be very happy with the ammount of larvae that they produce and the hihg fly yield.


----------



## brooklyndartfrogs (Nov 19, 2005)

Julio,
What's the benefit of using cinnamon other than the obvious smell?
Andy


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Andy,
no benefit, just for scent pruposes.


----------



## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

julio. I was gona ask about the cinnamin. I would think it woud "burn" the larva out but maby not in a small dose. anything to help the smell right!

is that 1/3 cup of h2o to 2/3 cup dry mix. do you make that whole batch up at once or do you make it as you go. and if you make it as you go how do you keep it from seperating. all the dry componants I mean.

In my experience with the media mix from josh's - mold = need to add more water.


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

is 1/3 media and 2/3 water. I make it as a go, so i mkae a fresh batch every week. once you mix it well it really stays mixed so you don't have to worry about it seperating.


----------



## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

cool thanks- i think I will cut the amounts in half first and try a small batch.


----------



## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Julio said:


> I was using Josh's media, but now i make my own,
> 6 cups of potatoe flakes
> 2 cups of brewers yeast
> 1 cup of powdered sugar
> ...


What would be the difference between using brewers yeast and Bakers yeast?


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

One is mixed into the media (brewer's yeast) to provide protein for the developing larvae and the other is sprinkled on top of the media (baker's yeast) to out-compete fungus for resources at the surface. They are certainly not interchangeable . . . 

Julio - the mix seems to be working well now that I have added the methyl paraben!


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

good to hear, but did you also add more flies, or just the usual 50?


----------



## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Julio said:


> good to hear, but did you also add more flies, or just the usual 50?


Nope still used just the 50+/-. That's worked for me for years - this wasn't a scientific study at all . . . it may have been a coincidence with the mold (I changed multiple variables ) . . . but as I said I've never seen it that bad before . . . or even close really!


----------



## christina hanson (Feb 16, 2004)

brooklyndartfrogs said:


> Julio,
> What's the benefit of using cinnamon other than the obvious smell?
> Andy


Cinnamon is also an effective natural antibiotic, you may be on to more than you thought using that as a media ingredient.

Christina


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

christina hanson said:


> Cinnamon is also an effective natural antibiotic, you may be on to more than you thought using that as a media ingredient.
> 
> Christina


I also know that safrole shows some toxicity at the upper end of the range (see Safrole - toxicity, ecological toxicity and regulatory information)

Ed


----------

