# Frogs and Plant Substrate (Perlite, Lime, Charcoal, vermicu)



## Brock (Jun 29, 2007)

The mix I use for my plants is

equal parts: Sphagnum, Perlite, and Vermiculite
+ a generous amount of charcoal and limestone.

If I find a way to contain the substrate to be just around the roots of each individual plant, are these substances safe for frogs? 

My concern is the effect on the pH of the water or soil the frogs will be in/on. The limestone particles will be very fine, which will elevate the pH. Is this ok? I remember hearing dart frogs like a more acidic environment. The limestone pH is about 8-almost 9.

I'm a complete noob with pH's, and just want to know if it will affect the frogs or not.

Will the change be insignificant, or should I ditch the limestone? Can I neutralize it or bring it down with Oak or Magnolia leaves?

Or does it even matter at all.

Thanks.


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## jeffdart (May 21, 2008)

I don't think you should use the limestone, I've worked with it in the construction field and it did a number to my hands.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Look, I know that pdfs don't really dig, but man o man, is there a reason you are avoiding the ABG or Searcy mixes? Perlite will eventually percolate to the top, and vermiculite can actually be too heavy in a viv. As charcoal, it pretty much accomplishes nothing after it does its initial adsorption. And there are better ingredients for drainage.

Remember, the substrate one uses in a tank has nothing to do with that used in a pot. (Just as one does not use garden soils in pots.)

You want something that is somewhat moisture retentive, but even more important, drains well. Wet soils are no compensation for low humidity. Unless your tank is a "swamp" or "bog" tank (horticultural terms Corey, not ecological ones ;-), you want a slightly moist, airy substrate with high air humidity. 

*Try this recipe*:

50 % Coir brick ("Coco" bedding--well rinsed)

The rest can be a mixture of:
Seedling orchid bark and/or tree fern fiber
Leaves
Cypress mulch

Yeah, I have heard wonders about ground palm, but it's expensive and not readily available.

Hope this helps.

G


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## scott r (Mar 2, 2008)

I have had good results with the above mix as well.

I vaccum up a pile of oak leaves with my yard vac which shreds them into tiny pcs. and mix them 50/50 with coco bedding. I add a couple handfuls of kitty litter rinsed in a strainer to remove dust. (kitty litter is dry clay) a scoop of calcium powder, and the mornings coffee grounds and egg shells. Makes for a nice airy substrate that drains well, and also provides a good habitat for isopods and springtails.


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## Brock (Jun 29, 2007)

Hey thanks a lot! I will try that mix and follow up with the results.

The mix I use is my grandma's recipe, which has shown good results for blooming plants over the decades.
I'll try this one out and see how it measures up.

Thank you very much for the replies!


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## gold3nku5h (Jul 24, 2008)

yeah, i have used vermiculite in many of my different things from container plants from seedlings to fully grown plants. I have found that it is really unessisary (dang i hate that word) and pretty bad for growing plants because it holds TOO much moisture unless it is used at a very low percentage, then its fine. Just be carefull as it compacts pretty easily after time, taking away from air flow to the roots which is just as important as being moist but not wet. Bark fines should work pretty well, im not sure, but they provide aeration and retains somewhat moisture while draining very well. Stay away from variable sizes between other material as it will filter through, eventually clogging.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Brock: Grandma's recipe is still great for _potted_ plants


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