# Clay Substrate



## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

I've been working on a couple of vivariums (a vertical 20L and 29 horizontal) and through building these , I've been learning a lot from mistakes and exploring a lot of different things. As a note, I'm going to post a small build log of the 29G soon as I've done some interesting things to the tank that might peak peoples interest.

Anyways, on to the point - my 20L is using a fairly standard premixed ABG from glassbox tropicals. The substrate is OK, but after having a first wave of plants die from overwatering (retraining my green thumb - oops), and looking to set up a automatic misting system in the 29G and future tanks, I've been trying to find a solutions to a) get as much drainage as possible while still being frog safe and b) get as much nutrients as possible to plants while still maintaining microfauna life. Another mistake I made was I introduced springtails/isopods then proceeded to mist the terrarium once a week for a few weeks with a transplant/rooting enhancing fertilizer. Looks like it killed everything off, whoops! I guess you learn from your mistakes haha. Luckily, I have cultures of each so I didn't lose them all. 

Now, here's the bit about clay - I know some people are experimenting with clay substrate but unfortunately, either my google-fu is failing me, or there still isn't much info on the topic. 

My very basic initial understanding of clay substrate is you take a clay mix (amphibian safe) and basically use it to build a ground, and cover it in leaf litter. Add holes and use some ABG to plant in those holes, and cover with more clay. My understanding too is that people use a very cubed up clay (either bought so, or baked and broken up) so that when you lay it out and mist it, it retains pockets for air and microfauna and I assume drainage as well. 

Here's the parts I don't know or am looking at some added info on. People are NOT mixing the clay with much except maybe according to Clay Background and Substrate Recipe, correct? Do you guys who use a clay substrate omit a false bottom? Do you use a screen/weedblock/whatever other substrate barrier to separate the two if you do? I imagine that will get pretty messy and potentially "clog up" if so, but also watering clay right onto rocks (or in my case, rocks + egg crate) would be pretty messy too. How does clay substrate fare with water features? I am building a waterfall + pond into the 29G tank and I am curious on if I decided to go the route of clay, that it wouldn't last very long. The waterfall wouldn't be dripping onto the substrate. Lastly, according to Clay Background and Substrate Recipe, it sounds like they intend you to put clay on top of ABG. Would it then be advantageous on a more heavily planted vivarium to create "holes" in the clay that lead to an ABG layer - or would that sort of defeat the purpose? I would love the calcium the clay adds to the substrate, but worry that I won't be able to actually get many plants - especially ground cover pants - to grow quickly. 

So, would love some brain storming on these points/questions and whatever info anyone has that I've missed or misunderstood! 

((random note, first post, hopefully this is a good place for it!))


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Somebody here must know something about clay...someone?...anyone?...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63732-clay-substrate-how.html

I think that will answer your questions.

By the way, I know you didn't ask this but, fertilizer is not really used in this hobby. Pushing plant growth is not an issue. Cutting it back over and over is more what you'll see, if you set it up right.

I would never use a fertilizer in any of my vivs. 
You know a frog's skin will absorb anything it touches, right? You aren't concerned about nutrient salts building up? 

Oh, and clay substrates are nutrient poor. Why? Because that's what was in the clay samples that Matt Mirabello went out and collected samples of, so we could try to imitate them. 
If you want nutrient rich, that's not clay substrates. If you wish to duplicate the rainforest floor as closely as possible, see increased survival rate in delicate, tiny froglets, and give your rainforest plants the type of soil they originally came from, that is clay substrates.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/55550-clay-background-vert-2.html#post484793

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/90333-false-bottom-question.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...do-i-really-need-false-bottom.html#post645229

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/51435-confused-about-bottom-tank.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63732-clay-substrate-how-3.html 

there are many more of these discussions, I just called it quits at that point 

some comments 

Ed


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

Thank you both for the replies! I guess the search function here didn't like me and google wasn't being too friendly either. I'll definately search through that. 

And yeah - I've discovered that problem with fert a bit after I started that first viv. My knee jerk reaction was just trying to get the plants to set up quicker - didn't think too much about safety or the fact that I'd reasonably never be replacing the substrate over time. At this point, I think I'm just going to leave the 20g as a terrarium until I can tell it's safe and flushed of everything. That's an interesting note on the nutrients but ultimately makes sense. Looks like I'll be going through those threads before I think my next steps through then.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Yes, our search engine here seems to be shattered, and has been for a while. Does anybody else miss Kyle?
Try google for whatever DB search you do, but tag Dendroboard onto the search.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

The search feature works for me, the trick is to refresh the page after the initial search attempt shows no results. Then the search results display for whatever weird reason.


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

@Grimsrude,

The lesson that fertilizer will not guarantee increased plant growth - and can in fact hurt the plants - is an important one. We all had to learn it at least once ;-)

Pumilo's zero-tolerance policy concerning fertilizer may not fit all vivs. If you have fast-growing plants (like ficus, selaginella, pothos, etc) that you regularly prune and remove, your viv might eventually need some replacement of the minerals lost in those cuttings - especially if you don't keep critters (whose food is indirect plant fertilizer). Mounted plants that get heavy watering from a misting system can benefit from light fertilizing to compensate for the leaching effect of purified water.

In the past, I have used a modified plastic squeeze bottle to produce a thread-thin stream of water to target-fertilize plants. I used it for to target my fertilizer but it would also allow you to avoid frogs.

A balanced light fertilizer diluted to 1/2 to 1/4 strength is what I use. I hit the epiphtyes with the greatest misting flux 2-3 times a month with it. I rely on gravity to distribute any un-absorbed fertilizer to the plants below and in the substrate.


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

Well, from a plant perspective, I know a good deal on plant health and nutrient useage from being an indoor/hydroponics gardener. In fact, this is how I quarantine and propagate my vivarium plants (lots of cleaning before transfer into habitats of course) - I just made the mistake of continuing the misting with hydroponics solution for that first Viv. The catch here is this killed all the microfauna and while the plants were able to get rooted nicely, the dead microfauna set the tank back in making its own nutrients, and obviously it has no frogs yet so there's no poop to help that either. 

Long story short, I'm going to have to do some experimenting to get the microfauna life back and also wash out some of the salts I've inevitably introduced into the soil/background down to safe levels for frogs. 

I think, on the note of clay, I'm going to pass on that until I'm working on a larger tank, maybe taking a stand at it with a small 10g terrarium/microfauna habitat before that. My current setups seem to be growing in nice so I see no point in trying to fix what's not broken. 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## macuser (Oct 8, 2015)

glass box sells calcium enriched clay substrate and turface and their product page has a good description on how to use it.

Clay Substrate - Calcium Bearing 1lb


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