# Repashy Superfly Media question



## erae16 (May 2, 2020)

Does anyone use Repashy Superfly Media? Can someone post pictures of a new culture they are mixing up and making using this media. I want to get a visual on how the water and media mix should look.

I cannot for the life of me seem to get maggots. I've made a few and none of them are producing. I have like one maggot on the side of the container. 

This is holding me back from getting my first darts and I'm so sad about it.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

This is what I use. Unfortunately I just made my cultures for the week. 

I literally just follow the instructions exactly and it's worked out well for me. 
3 tbsp of mix with 2/3 cup of boiling water, mix so that there's no chunks of dry mix and then wait a day and add excelsior and flies.


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## LobCityLA (Nov 5, 2014)

I just made a culture last week, but sorry no pictures. I have my own system down to heating water, more than I need, mix in 4 scoops and I start adding water and I mix with a wood chop stick, keep adding water little by little, until it’s completely mixed and I look for a smooth creamy yogurt consistency. I find that consistency won’t dry out in the 5 week or so life cycle and still firm enough where it won’t slide around and become a mudslide death trap to the living flies. Hope this helps.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

It's pretty dry here in Colorado. I used to have to add a little extra water to my Superfly. I have always made it with fully boiling water. Otherwise I followed the directions and it always worked great. Best media I've ever tried. When you mix it correctly, according to the directions, it will appear to be a good bit thicker than other brands completed media. 

How about a little more information? 
When did you make your cultures? 
What temperature are you culturing at? 
How many flies did you spike it with? 
Are the adult flies in the cultures still alive? 
Did your adult flies get stuck in the media and die?

There are so many variables. We will be unable to help you without any information. Give us an in-depth report on exactly what you are doing, and I'll bet you get better help.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

I love the stuff. I need to use slightly more water than what it calls for though. I boil the water and then just pour it on top of the media. I don't even bother mixing it up. I give it time to cool, and then I add the flies to the culture. By the time it cools and I add the flies, the media is not flooded at the top. It'll appear dry at the bottom in some pockets, but that will hydrate overnight and you will have a very prolific culture. SUPER EASY.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

BTW answer Pumilo's questions and you will get more refined answers.

And you didn't mention if you were culturing melanogaster or hydei. Hydei are much slower.


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## erae16 (May 2, 2020)

Pumilo said:


> It's pretty dry here in Colorado. I used to have to add a little extra water to my Superfly. I have always made it with fully boiling water. Otherwise I followed the directions and it always worked great. Best media I've ever tried. When you mix it correctly, according to the directions, it will appear to be a good bit thicker than other brands completed media.
> 
> How about a little more information?
> When did you make your cultures?
> ...


Made cultures on May 9 (got only a few flies), May 23 (nothing showed up) & May 31 (only a few maggots are showing) 
I put as many flies as I had left so at least 30?
Temps in the room are 75
The adult flies were mostly still alive in the May 31 culture 
There were some stuck in the media of the May 23rd one but not all

For the one I made today I made the media thicker then let it sit over night before adding new flies. I took whatever was left from my May 31st culture because I have no other flies from any others. I had no flies left from my May 9th one I made. 

Previous Cultures (May 9, May 23 & May 31)
https://imgur.com/gallery/svO5Age

Culture made today (June 9) 
https://imgur.com/gallery/1hvOAIv


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## erae16 (May 2, 2020)

varanoid said:


> BTW answer Pumilo's questions and you will get more refined answers.
> 
> And you didn't mention if you were culturing melanogaster or hydei. Hydei are much slower.


They are Melanogaster


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I tend to have to make mine a little drier than that or they get moldy too quickly. My experience is different than Doug's where I usually have to use less than the recommended amount of water. What has been working for me lately after a year-long bout of mold problems has been to use about 1 and a half 1/3 measuring cup fulls of boiling water (I think it recommends 2/3 of a cup on the label). I then add a tablespoon of vinegar and a pinch of yeast. No idea if either of those things helps a huge amount, but it's working right now so I will continue doing it. When I was making my cultures too wet, they would get super smelly (rotten smell) and not produce many flies. Now, I make them dry-ish then keep them in a drawer with some water in the bottom to keep it humid enough to keep the flies producing. All of this is with Super Fly.

Mark



erae16 said:


> Made cultures on May 9 (got only a few flies), May 23 (nothing showed up) & May 31 (only a few maggots are showing)
> I put as many flies as I had left so at least 30?
> Temps in the room are 75
> The adult flies were mostly still alive in the May 31 culture
> ...


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## Kimie (Jan 25, 2020)

I've noticed if my flies are too old they have trouble breeding. But if they are just hatching, they also breed much more. I even make my one media and do it as yougurt. finished media is too expensive


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## erae16 (May 2, 2020)

Kimie said:


> I even make my one media and do it as yougurt. finished media is too expensive


What does that mean?


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## Moxie (Mar 7, 2020)

erae16 said:


> Kimie said:
> 
> 
> > I even make my one media and do it as yougurt. finished media is too expensive
> ...


If I had to guess, I'd say it was meant as they made their own media using some sort of home made recipe and when its mixed it is the consistency of yogurt.


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## Kimie (Jan 25, 2020)

Sorry my English. Use Google translate. And was a little tired at the same time hehe


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I understood what you meant, Kimie! 

While in an absolute sense you can save money by making your own medium, I think there are some real advantages to buying it pre-made. For one thing, my time is worth something and I don't like to spend it mashing up bananas, stirring potato flakes, whatever. Also, there are ingredients in commercial media that I am just not going to take the time to put in there and in a balance that I can't be bothered to figure out. I'll let Allen Repashy do the math and stirring and I will just mix it with water  Seriously, Super Fly is really good. It saves me a lot of time and crashed fly cultures in the long run. It also works well for both melanogaster and hydei.

Mark


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Back in the day I made my own media and it worked out well, but upon returning to the hobby last year I started using SuperFly and never looked back.

Your ambient environment (humidity and temperature) play a role, but as people have said above, mixing it to a smooth yogurt consistency works for me. I do probably use a little more water than called for, to prevent it drying out in my house.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

So, with my new Rapashy I'm just following the directions. Variables of my situ do include an ambiance of 'meh' low humidity.

So one of the cultures I have, that's combo Mel/Hydia (thick level media, I dont have many frogs) is a little surface dry. With the "Popular Contender", it would have already presented with the white mold by now.

I tried everything with the other stuff. Including a pretty good screen of protocol + variants.

Rapashy is working better. I hope the company stays the same.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Kmc said:


> So, with my new Rapashy I'm just following the directions. Variables of my situ do include an ambiance of 'meh' low humidity.
> 
> So one of the cultures I have, that's combo Mel/Hydia (thick level media, I dont have many frogs) is a little surface dry. With the "Popular Contender", it would have already presented with the white mold by now.
> 
> ...


Allen listens to what the hobby wants and needs. He actually changed his formulation on his Calcium Plus after an in depth conversation on nutrition with Ed. Right smack in the middle of a nutrition thread, Allen asked Ed if they could pm concerning making an upgrade to his Calcium Plus. I'm afraid I do not remember what the change was. This was to make it better, not cheaper.
I really don't see Allen cheaping out on us and going substandard. I like to think he will raise the price as necessary to keep giving us the good stuff.
Remember when Repashy was only available in foil pack envelopes? That's not even an option anymore because people told him that all too often, his ziplock system would fail before 6 months had passed. No more envelopes. Everything's jarred and the stays airtight for the full life of the product, and beyond.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Encyclia said:


> I tend to have to make mine a little drier than that or they get moldy too quickly. My experience is different than Doug's where I usually have to use less than the recommended amount of water. What has been working for me lately after a year-long bout of mold problems has been to use about 1 and a half 1/3 measuring cup fulls of boiling water (I think it recommends 2/3 of a cup on the label). I then add a tablespoon of vinegar and a pinch of yeast. No idea if either of those things helps a huge amount, but it's working right now so I will continue doing it. When I was making my cultures too wet, they would get super smelly (rotten smell) and not produce many flies. Now, I make them dry-ish then keep them in a drawer with some water in the bottom to keep it humid enough to keep the flies producing. All of this is with Super Fly.
> 
> Mark


Our experiences would be very different. You store yours quite humid, while I run mine just out on the shelf sucking up Colorado's aridity. It makes perfect sense that I would require a little more, and you a little less. Where we keep them absolutely makes a difference.

Just a thought, Mark. Do you think that running yours in a humid container may have contributed to your mold problems? Mine never molded prematurely. My brother started keeping his in a plastic bin, without water, just to keep the smell down. He started having problems with mold and culture crashes after that. When I suspected his closed in bin, I was told that the bin was non-debatable simply for the smell. I drilled two small holes in his bin. I inserted a tightly fitting, aquarium, airline hose in one hole, and attached an aquarium air pump to it. I inserted a second piece of aquarium line into the second hole. We routed that either outside, or into his garage. Now his culture smell is gone, and so is his mold and crashing cultures. Happy flies, happy wife. He, too, is using Repashy Superfly.
Do you sprinkle yours with a pinch of active bread yeast? I know he states it is not necessary, but I still think sprinkling with live yeast is another good tool in our arsenal. It helps out-compete unwanted molds and bacteria. Never mind, I just noted that you do use a pinch of active yeast. I'm going to leave the comment stand, anyway, for other's benefit.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Pumilo said:


> Our experiences would be very different. You store yours quite humid, while I run mine just out on the shelf sucking up Colorado's aridity. It makes perfect sense that I would require a little more, and you a little less. Where we keep them absolutely makes a difference.
> 
> Just a thought, Mark. Do you think that running yours in a humid container may have contributed to your mold problems? Mine never molded prematurely. My brother started keeping his in a plastic bin, without water, just to keep the smell down. He started having problems with mold and culture crashes after that. When I suspected his closed in bin, I was told that the bin was non-debatable simply for the smell. I drilled two small holes in his bin. I inserted a tightly fitting, aquarium, airline hose in one hole, and attached an aquarium air pump to it. I inserted a second piece of aquarium line into the second hole. We routed that either outside, or into his garage. Now his culture smell is gone, and so is his mold and crashing cultures. Happy flies, happy wife. He, too, is using Repashy Superfly.
> Do you sprinkle yours with a pinch of active bread yeast? I know he states it is not necessary, but I still think sprinkling with live yeast is another good tool in our arsenal. It helps out-compete unwanted molds and bacteria. Never mind, I just noted that you do use a pinch of active yeast. I'm going to leave the comment stand, anyway, for other's benefit.


It is certainly possible, Doug. I think my mold issues came from more than one cause. The drawers were an attempt to control humidity because I found it tough to keep them in the open year-round. I would frequently end up with hockey pucks at the bottom of the cultures much earlier than expected, especially in winter. I also keep water in the bottom of the drawers to keep mites to a minimum. I dont' have enough drawers for my hydei cultures and they end up pretty mite-ridden by the end of the their cycle. I know I could do some other stuff with diatomaceous earth, etc. but I don't rely on my hydei cultures enough to worry about the mites. As you probably saw, the bins allow me to adjust the amount of air that gets into the drawers so I can adjust over the course of the year.

In terms of smell, the flies are in my office, so I am the one that primarily has to deal with the smell. You get used to it after a while 

Yes, I do use a pinch of yeast and a tablespoon of vinegar (which goes a bit toward making up for the half of 1/3 measuring cup that I don't use for water). Both of those things seem to help. I have not smelled the death smell for months now, and I ended up not even needing to refresh the genetics of my flies. I couldn't find new Turkish Gliders at the time I was having this issue and they are my favorite  I think I am on the same genetics of Turkish Gliders for 6 or 8 years now, but I could be misremembering.

Mark


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> . I ended up not even needing to refresh the genetics of my flies. I couldn't find new Turkish Gliders at the time I was having this issue and they are my favorite 🙂 I think I am on the same genetics of Turkish Gliders for 6 or 8 years now, but I could be misremembering.
> 
> Mark


Is refreshing the genetics of the fruit flies something people do regularly? All of my cultures have come from the same single beginning culture... (Feels like a newbie question from someone who has been doing this for a little while)
Is


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

It's so not a newbie question. I think what usually happens is that somebody starts having trouble with their cultures and they start trying a bunch of stuff. to fix it. Starting with a fresh culture is something that makes sense to try. Between all of the stuff people try, something works, but it's not clear what. By the time all's said and done, you end up with fresh genetics whether that was the cause of the problem or not  I have no idea how often people's trouble with cultures are related to tired genetics, but I suspect it's a lot less often than people claim. That's just my $0.02, anyway.

Mark


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Is refreshing the genetics of the fruit flies something people do regularly? All of my cultures have come from the same single beginning culture... (Feels like a newbie question from someone who has been doing this for a little while)
> Is


You cannot freshen the genetics of flightless fruit flies. Well, I mean, you can, but every single one of the offspring will be a flying fruit fly.
The gene that causes flies to lose their ability to fly, is a defect. It is a recessive gene. The recessive gene that causes Bob's flies to remain flightless is very likely different from the recessive gene that keeps Tom's flies flightless.
If one of Bob's flies, mates with one of Tom's flies, it's all over. Tom's recessive gene will be repaired and overpowered by Bob's fully functional gene. At the same time, Bob's recessive gene will be overpowered and "repaired" by Tom's dominant genes.

You cannot ever put melonogasters from different sources together. Therefore, it is not within the scope of a hobbyists abiltiy to freshen genetics. You can dispose of your cultures and restart with somebody else's, but again, you haven't freshened any genetics. You've simply swapped out for a different line of flies that may, or may not, be every bit as genetically bottlenecked as the line you just destroyed.

What you can do is try to keep your line from bottlenecking in the first place. If you always start your cultures with the freshest flies possible, you are genetically selecting for a faster hatching, faster booming fly. Over time, you could very well accidentally "genetically program" your line of flies to hatch early, and boom fast and heavy. What's the problem with that, you ask. What are you going to do next week? If you've genetically selected for a fast booming fly, you are also rapidly developing a fly with very little in the following hatches. i.e. You genetically programmed your flies to produce for a few days to a week, and then drastically fall off, or even completely stop, production.
In addition, you cannot change just one gene. Genes come in clusters, called Gene packets. When you change one thing, like the color of something's eyes, unasked for changes come with it also. Let's say you selectively breed a dog to have blue eyes. Things come with that. You may have also messed with a gene that forms a valve in his heart. You've created a line bred, blue eyed dog, but years into your breeding program, you realize that most of it's progeny tend to drop dead of a heart attack around 3 years old. Or maybe the line is extremely susceptable to disease. Or, maybe all that comes along for the ride a tail that is several inches shorter than normal.
So how do you alleviate this? Mix it up. Don't start your new cultures from ONLY your freshest, first hatch. Instead, grab one culture with brand new, first hatch flies. Now grab another culture that has been producing for 2 weeks. Mix the flies together and use this to start your new cultures. That's about all you can do to "freshen" a culture. Keep doing it this way, and there is no reason you can't use the same line of flies for many, many years.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Pumilo said:


> You cannot freshen the genetics of flightless fruit flies. Well, I mean, you can, but every single one of the offspring will be a flying fruit fly.
> The gene that causes flies to lose their ability to fly, is a defect. It is a recessive gene. The recessive gene that causes Bob's flies to remain flightless is very likely different from the recessive gene that keeps Tom's flies flightless.
> If one of Bob's flies, mates with one of Tom's flies, it's all over. Tom's recessive gene will be repaired and overpowered by Bob's fully functional gene. At the same time, Bob's recessive gene will be overpowered and "repaired" by Tom's dominant genes.


Interesting stuff in here. I want to make sure I understand. (I am trying to work through this in my own brain) Both Bob and Tom's flies have different recessive genes causing flightlessness. Stands to reason that the remaining genome of the Bob and Tom's flies is also different. If you have control over which genes get passed on because of environmental conditions (and I think you are right that we do and you give a great example), then we can alter the available gene pool over time by artificially selecting for one gene packet over another. I think we are probably doing this unwittingly all the time and habit being what it is, I think we are pushing things in a specific direction. Each generation will be pushed toward certain gene combinations and away from others, probably in a systematic direction. This is where it get interesting. The genes in your fly gene pool are probably not the same now as when you started with your current flies.

While you can't refresh the gene pool by introducing new genes from outside (like you said, fliers, nuff said), you can "start over" with someone else's gene pool (swap from Tom to Bob) or you can get them closer to the source, I am guessing. Pure speculation, but I doubt all the flies in the hobby come from a single mutation event for each variety. I think folks like Carolina Biological have to be producing new mutations (or new instances of the same mutations) which will, in essence, refresh the genetics of the flies to start with closer to a wild-type genome. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

So, I am thinking that while you can't "refresh" fruit fly genetics by crossing them with other people's cultures (thus dropping down to an F0 situation), you can start over with someone else's genetics. That's what I was referring to, but maybe I was using the wrong term  That would make it so that my slow, unwitting genetic manipulation via my tendencies in setting up cultures could start anew.

Sound right?

Mark


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Ever wish that when a thread took a different tangent with really interesting information not related to the original poster's post or question, that you could separate that tangent into a separate thread for further discussion? Man the search function works, but I can't believe how many amazing discussions have occurred over the years that I have trouble relocating based off of this. Frustrating sometimes. But none the less, gotta love this forum for the amazing range of viewpoints, diversity of backgrounds their information comes from, and the depth of responses. Can't find that on FB or any other platform.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

You've already gotten some good info here, but I'll underscore it. A lot of us were part of the pilot studies for Repashy Media when Allen was developing it. It was super surprising to see how different peoples experiences were depending on what would seem minor variables. I tried a million different things and took notes. Here in Northern California with moderate humidity and a temp controlled room, I get perfect result with the following

1/4 cup media
2/3 cup boiling water

Cover immediately and let sit until cool. Do NOT stir. Add yeast and 4 folded coffee filters. Seed from at least two different sources (older cultures) to preserve as much genetic diversity as possible.

Incidentally, I've used it exclusively since then. Good cultures.


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## Tinc Tank (Jun 29, 2019)

Pumilo said:


> You cannot freshen the genetics of flightless fruit flies. Well, I mean, you can, but every single one of the offspring will be a flying fruit fly.


This isn't necessarily true. As long as you are sure they are in fact the same mutation, you can somewhat "freshen" your stock. There are only a few mutations that make Drosophila melanogaster flightless and they are pretty easy to identify.



Pumilo said:


> You cannot ever put melonogasters from different sources together. Therefore, it is not within the scope of a hobbyists ability to freshen genetics. You can dispose of your cultures and restart with somebody else's, but again, you haven't freshened any genetics. You've simply swapped out for a different line of flies that may, or may not, be every bit as genetically bottlenecked as the line you just destroyed.


You can in fact put melanogasters from different sources together. Black Jungle sells cultures of "Apterous" flies (the name of the mutation that makes them wingless), which you can also buy at Josh's Frogs, NEHERP, and Carolina Biological. They can all be mixed and will in fact still produce wingless/flightless fruit flies. Same goes for the melanogasters labeled as gliders, but those should not be mixed with the melanogasters labeled as Apterous/Wingless.



Encyclia said:


> Pure speculation, but I doubt all the flies in the hobby come from a single mutation event for each variety. I think folks like Carolina Biological have to be producing new mutations (or new instances of the same mutations) which will, in essence, refresh the genetics of the flies to start with closer to a wild-type genome. Correct me if I am wrong, please.


You'll be surprised. For D. melanogaster, there are only really 2 different mutations that allow them to be flightless that are common in the hobby - each from one initial mutation event. Carolina Biological are not just reproducing new mutations of the same defect all the time. With each new mutation in laboratory rearing, you are actually getting one step farther away from the wild-type genome through a process called genetic drift.



fishingguy12345 said:


> Is refreshing the genetics of the fruit flies something people do regularly? All of my cultures have come from the same single beginning culture... (Feels like a newbie question from someone who has been doing this for a little while)
> Is


Yes, some experienced froggers do in fact outcross/backcross their flies to refresh their genetics. Ed Kowalski, a long time member on Dendroboard and use to be the lead keeper at the Philly zoo, once commented that he tends to add newly purchased cultures every year to his flies to "add some good outcrossing material" and "to keep the maximal genetics going in the cultures".

The flies will adapt to the media you are using over time. So if you have cultured your flies on one media for many generations and decide to switch to a new media, it may be beneficial to freshen the genetics of your flies with flies that have been cultured on the new media for many generations already, such as when switching from Josh's Frogs media to NEHERP media for instance.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Tinc Tank said:


> You'll be surprised. For D. melanogaster, there are only really 2 different mutations that allow them to be flightless that are common in the hobby - each from one initial mutation event. Carolina Biological are not just reproducing new mutations of the same defect all the time. With each new mutation in laboratory rearing, you are actually getting one step farther away from the wild-type genome through a process called genetic drift.


You're right, I am surprised! So, they just got lucky a couple of different times (wingless, vestigial winged, etc.) while pummeling them with radiation (or something) and have just been riding that same horse for uncounted generations? That's amazing. They must pay pretty close attention to the outcrossing you refer to in your post to keep from piling up unfavorable gene combinations.

Thanks very much for clearing things up. Makes sense to me, but that shouldn't be any kind of indicator for anyone 

Mark


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## Tinc Tank (Jun 29, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> You're right, I am surprised! So, they just got lucky a couple of different times (wingless, vestigial winged, etc.) while pummeling them with radiation (or something) and have just been riding that same horse for uncounted generations? That's amazing. They must pay pretty close attention to the outcrossing you refer to in your post to keep from piling up unfavorable gene combinations.
> 
> Thanks very much for clearing things up. Makes sense to me, but that shouldn't be any kind of indicator for anyone
> 
> Mark


Not all Drosophila mutations arise through pummeling them with radiation. Several arose through just random genetic chance. I do not know for sure about the wingless or flightless varieties, but I do know that the mutation that makes their eyes white was randomly spotted in a population of fruit flies two scientists named Thomas and Lilian Morgan were culturing in 1910. This was the first mutation cultured in Drosophila and led to the discovery of sex-linkage. When researchers use radiation to induce mutation, it leads to many different kinds of mutations all at once and so they also need to develop special techniques to screen for the mutations they are interested in. This is being done in several species of algae in order to develop mutants who produce higher quantities of various carotenoids for instance.


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## erae16 (May 2, 2020)

Boondoggle said:


> You've already gotten some good info here, but I'll underscore it. A lot of us were part of the pilot studies for Repashy Media when Allen was developing it. It was super surprising to see how different peoples experiences were depending on what would seem minor variables. I tried a million different things and took notes. Here in Northern California with moderate humidity and a temp controlled room, I get perfect result with the following
> 
> 1/4 cup media
> 2/3 cup boiling water
> ...


Don't stir wow okay I will try that! So do I add yeast and folded coffee filters after it has cooled or right after adding the boiling water.

Also what type of yeast specifically? I know there is one good kind you want and one you DON'T want to use.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

erae16 said:


> Don't stir wow okay I will try that! So do I add yeast and folded coffee filters after it has cooled or right after adding the boiling water.
> 
> Also what type of yeast specifically? I know there is one good kind you want and one you DON'T want to use.


Yeast shouldn't matter when you add it. I don't add I myself and have never had any mold issues but that may just me being lucky with my individual environment. 

I wouldn't add the filters until after it has cooled though, it's just begging for mold issues if they are waterlogged. When you first dump in your boiling water, it is floating on top of the media for a few minutes. You don't want the filters to get waterlogged. I use excelcior though rather than coffee filters. But I would do the same with excelcior, add it after the culture has had time to cool down and absorb the boiled water. I dust my flies before starting new cultures to cut down on mites.


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