# Pacific Tree Frog Vivarium



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

The Pacific Tree Frog lives on the west coast of North America, from Baja California to Alaska, where it was introduced in the 60's. I've caught these all my life, but now after I got into the idea of keeping frogs as a hobby, I set up a permanent vivarium for them. These guys have really cool patterns in natural green/brown colors. Here's a top-down shot of the viv (I'm in the process of rinsing everything)...










I'm going to put two pieces of driftwood in there. One if for climbing and it will be reaching up to the top of the viv. The other is for hiding and it will provide a dark, damp place for the frogs to chill. The landscape is really cool because I made it where there is an area that the frogs can sit on but it is submerged under a tiny bit of water. I'm thinking of putting some grasses or something in there for them to sit in.

Currently the tadpoles are in a grow-out tank. Most are around 1cm or less. One is about 2cm and there are three that are 3cm-4cm, which have their back legs. The oldest one is expected to get it's front legs within a few days.

Babies chillin' with their peeps...










Biggest one and a small one side-by-side...










And here's what they'll look like when full-grown...










I'll post more pictures as the viv gets near finished and the tads develop more.

PS: I'm going to patch the tank with silicone and sphagnum where needed soon...


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

I patched most of the Great Stuff that was sticking through and rinsed out all the excess peat. I took a small shovel and went out on my lawn to get some weeds. I found some vines with orange flowers, some succulent-type plants with white flowers, and a plant with yellow flowers. I also discovered that my lawn has been farming green sphagnum for the last 15 years. I got a bunch and rinsed the dirt off of it. They'll make a nice little floor cover. I also have some brown sphagnum with no dirt on it that I can drape over the drift wood and put in the areas with less than 1cm of water. I have PLENTY more weeds in my yard if I need any lol. 

Oh, and I'll go to my local home depot to get a bit of ivy to plant in the peat planted built into the back wall. 

Pics...

(Sphagnum)









(Vine)









(Yellow flowers)


----------



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

The tadpoles can be pretty heavily cannibalistic...might want to watch your group.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

It's ready to go for the morphers, which I'll add in a few days. Here's some pictures. Please keep in mind that all of the plant life, except to ivy, was found in my yard. So yes, you could say I filled my viv with weeds. 

Top-down shot









Ivy, moss and more









And my favorite area... _The Chill Log_. The Chill log features a cool, shaded area for moistening the skin and a soft, mossy deck for lounging and log diving. 









There was no water in the viv while the photos were taken. I have some water plants for the frogs to hide in. The peat soaks up a bunch of water and it keeps the ground SOAKED. It moistens the green moss I have, and the holes in which I put the plants collect tiny puddles of water in the bottom of them which will keep the plants watered. 

Will post pics when I get the tads in there!


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

skylsdale said:


> The tadpoles can be pretty heavily cannibalistic...might want to watch your group.


Haven't had any problems with that in the last two weeks. I read online that these guys feed on organic matter. The water moss I put in there decayed into a pile of crap and all of the tads are down there having a feast.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Tomorrow my oldest tad should have his front legs. I'll move a smaller tad over first to make sure everything is okay, then I'll move the big one.


----------



## melbel (Oct 5, 2010)

Isn't it illegal to keep Pacific Green Tree Frogs without a license? I have heard that anyway.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

melbel said:


> Isn't it illegal to keep Pacific Green Tree Frogs without a license? I have heard that anyway.


I've read up on it.

_"A current California Freshwater Sport Fishing License is needed by any resident or non-resident 16 years of age or older to take, or collect, reptiles and amphibians in California, except for rattlesnakes, which are not protected by law."_

I have a current California Freshwater Sport Fishing License, which is the liscens required to take the Pacific Chorus Frog. The Pacific Chorus Frog is on the list of Amphibians you _can_ take according to California state laws. I guess this project gives me a good reason to renew a $50 license every year!


----------



## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Except for rattlesnakes?!?


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Wallace Grover said:


> Except for rattlesnakes?!?


Yeah that kinda shocked me too! It's almost like they're encouraging people to attempt catching wild rattlers and keep them as pets. I've only seen one once in my life. The one I saw actually slithered right through my legs when I was in younger!


----------



## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Good luck with this project. Keep us updated on their progress.

Take care, Richard.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Woodsman said:


> Good luck with this project. Keep us updated on their progress.
> 
> Take care, Richard.


Thanks. Will do. 

I'll get a morph container ready tomorrow and by then my largest tad should have his front legs. It'll have moist sphagnum on the dry part and the wet part will be just water. I'll put some of the decayed moss and a bit of moss from my yard in the water for them to eat if they're hungry. I'll post pictures when I get it set up.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Here's a picture of "the chill log" with the water under it so you can see what I'm talking about. It's extremely shallow water that the frogs can sit in. Definitely my favorite feature of the tank, and I made it on complete accident!










The oldest tad has three legs as of now... The other front leg should pop out soon. Here's a picture of the morph container from the side...










I just now put some sphagnum and some moss from my yard into the water in case the tads get hungry or something. 

And here's an almost full viv shot. Well it's the nice part of the viv at least. 










My weed is beginning to flower! 
There are two full blooms, two half blooms, and four or more unopened blooms.










I'll update when the first tad goes into the morph container.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Here's mr. snuggles. 










The leg you can't see is the one that hasn't popped out yet. I see a huge bulge there so I assume the leg will pop out tonight, at which point he'll be moved to the morph container.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Mr. Snuggles today...










All four legs are in and his tail is 1/4 absorbed. 
Apparently these guys stay in the water until the last minute, so I'll move him over to the main viv's water system when he has 1/3-1/4 of his tail remaining.


----------



## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

very cool tank. they were reclassified to pacific chorus frogs by the way, no longer a Hyla.

i think the reason they say you dont need the license for rattlesnakes is a lot of people hunt and eat them. they arent talking about keeping them as pets.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

*Re: Pacific Chorus Frog Vivarium*



thedude said:


> very cool tank. they were reclassified to pacific chorus frogs by the way, no longer a Hyla.
> 
> i think the reason they say you dont need the license for rattlesnakes is a lot of people hunt and eat them. they arent talking about keeping them as pets.


I realized that they were called chorus frogs after I made this thread. If any admins read this, please change the title of this thread to Pacific Chorus Frog Vivarium, if you can please. 

I guess that makes sense about the rattle snakes... but they should still say something about not attempting to catch them as pets.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Percularis said:


> I've read up on it.
> 
> _"A current California Freshwater Sport Fishing License is needed by any resident or non-resident 16 years of age or older to take, or collect, reptiles and amphibians in California, except for rattlesnakes, which are not protected by law."_
> 
> I have a current California Freshwater Sport Fishing License, which is the liscens required to take the Pacific Chorus Frog. The Pacific Chorus Frog is on the list of Amphibians you _can_ take according to California state laws. I guess this project gives me a good reason to renew a $50 license every year!


Aren't you limited to four.... ? Freshwater Sport Fishing Regulations - Species Regulations § 5.05


Ed


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Ed said:


> Aren't you limited to four.... ? Freshwater Sport Fishing Regulations - Species Regulations § 5.05
> 
> 
> Ed


I wasn't aware of that regulation, or any for the matter of fact when I acquired the tads. I don't plan to keep more than four or five adults, so I can put all but four back. I see it says that 4 is the _daily_ limit, so I guess that means I can get up to four more per day if needed.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Four is both the daily and possession limit..


> c) Limit: The daily bag and possession limit for each of the amphibian species listed in subsection (a), above, is four except for bullfrogs, which have no daily bag or possession limit.


 
If you have other amphibians or reptiles in your collection that are not quarantined from the tadpoles, then you are putting them at risk by releasing any as there is a risk of novel pathogens. It is actually illegal for you to release them see


> (e) Reptiles or amphibians which have been in captivity, including wild-caught and captively-bred individuals or offspring,shall not be released into the wild without the written approval of the department.


 you are required to transfer them to another person or institution holding a scientific permit unless you get permission from the Department of FIsh and Game to release them. See the regulations here http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf


----------



## Melmo (May 2, 2011)

skylsdale said:


> The tadpoles can be pretty heavily cannibalistic...might want to watch your group.


Are you sure about that? I know salamander larvae are normally cannibals in tight groups, but aren't most frog tadpoles just herbivores?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Melmo said:


> Are you sure about that? I know salamander larvae are normally cannibals in tight groups, but aren't most frog tadpoles just herbivores?


No most are actual not true herbivores. Most are omnivores and many are opportunistically predatory, and/or scavengers. There are a number of species in which strict carnivory is the feeding methods. 

Try keeping a group of ventrimaculatus (or many other dendrobatid) tadpoles together on a primarily herbivorous diet....


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Ed said:


> Four is both the daily and possession limit..
> 
> 
> If you have other amphibians or reptiles in your collection that are not quarantined from the tadpoles, then you are putting them at risk by releasing any as there is a risk of novel pathogens. It is actually illegal for you to release them see you are required to transfer them to another person or institution holding a scientific permit unless you get permission from the Department of FIsh and Game to release them. See the regulations here http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT]


I'll find a few people with a permit to give the remaining few to. Thanks for informing me.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

I just got some fairy moss, which is just like duckweed but it looks like moss and it green and red. 

I also got about a dozen parrot's feather. They are anywhere from 2"-8" tall including the stems/roots. I'm going to put them towards the back of the water area, and I'll put the fairy moss in front part of it. I think fairy moss grows pretty quick just like duckweed.

I drained the water out of the viv and figured I'd fill it with the tadpole's water (I'll strain it through a brine shrimp net to get the small bugs/particles out) since it is what the tads are used to and it should have lots of nutrients for the floating plants.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Fairy moss floating near the Chill Log...










Parrot's feather leaning against the background...










I really thought the parrot's feather would be more sturdy. It's flimsy. Maybe with the proper care it will shape up. It was planted in a mixture of wet mud and small porous rocks. I rinsed it off really well just in case it was fertilized, and same with the fairy moss.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Mr. Snuggles as of five minutes ago...



















I don't see him breathing through gills like the other tads are, so I assume he's pretty much done with meta other than the tail. I'll go ahead and move him to the vivarium's water system and he can crawl out of the water whenever he wants to.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Within five minutes of the previous photos being taken I moved Mr. Snuggles to the main viv's water system. He grabbed onto the Chill Long and pulled himself onto the front of the tank and is now climbing up the side...










Mr. Snuggles is hungry! I have to go to the pet store for some tiny pinhead crickets to feed him. 

_EDIT: Right when I posted this he jumped off the wall into the water._


----------



## Erica (Dec 11, 2010)

I can't wait to see you're fully developrd frogs in you're "fully developed" vivarium.


----------



## Erica (Dec 11, 2010)

Melmo said:


> Are you sure about that? I know salamander larvae are normally cannibals in tight groups, but aren't most frog tadpoles just herbivores?


Several other frog speicies commit cannablism in the tadpole stage like Buddgets Frogs and some Horned Toad species.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Erica said:


> I can't wait to see you're fully developrd frogs in you're "fully developed" vivarium.


I can't wait either. I really want these other three big tads to hurry up and morph. These frogs are known to lay their eggs in temporary water sources, huge puddles or drains. They have developed a natural instinct to speed up morphing when they sense that the water they're in is about to dry up. After I removed a bit of water from the tad tank to fill the main viv, I see tiny little legs are some of the medium-sized tads and my bigger tads with back legs have bulges on them where front legs are coming in. It's a very neat thing. 



Erica said:


> Several other frog speicies commit cannablism in the tadpole stage like Buddgets Frogs and some Horned Toad species.


Is a Horned Toad the same as a Horny Toad? They look suspiciously like lizards...


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Mr. Snuggles has been sitting on the Chill Log in the same spot for almost 30 minutes now... His throat is quickly vibrating which is breathing. If he wanted to get back in the water will he crawl back himself, or should I move him in just to be safe? He was breathing through his mouth in the tad tank so I figured his gills were gone which is why I moved him.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

I was worried about Mr. Snuggles shortly after posting my last post so I tipped the plant he was on into the water to get him moist. He swam around for a few seconds and then hopped for a few minutes until he reached the back of the vivarium. He started to climb up the dry background of peatmoss but I guess it was kinda difficult for him so he just found a little overhang and clinged to the shady part of the background under it, where he has been sitting for over three hours. He's still breathing normally and he looks moist, but just to be safe I misted the top of the back wall a lot with distilled water and let it run down. I'll mist him one more before I turn the lights off in an hour. 

I just got some crickets at a reptile store. I figured twenty would last me a week until I can get to a vivarium store to purchase some more crickets and possibly some springtails. They aren't pinheads, but most of them are smaller than the little dude's mouth. I found some pinheads at petsmart but they were actually larger than the ones I got. The ones that I got are darker and the person at the vivarium store said they are hardier.

Tomorrow I'll get some moss from my yard to put in the very back of the viv, and possible to put on the background if I can find a way to do it.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The metamorph isn't going to eat until after the tail is totally absorbed. This is a stressful time for them so the more you mess with it, the worse it's chances are going to be....


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Ed said:


> The metamorph isn't going to eat until after the tail is totally absorbed. This is a stressful time for them so the more you mess with it, the worse it's chances are going to be....


Yeah I figured that, which is why I left him alone after the first two times. I was worried because I thought he would stay in the water until almost all of the tail was gone, and at the time only about 60% of it was gone. I assumed he wouldn't eat until the tail was absorbed, but I got the crickets because I'm going to be busy pretty much the rest of the weekend. I dimmed the lights and he came off the back wall and was sitting on the moist moss the last time I check. I just remembered these guys are nocturnal, so it may relieve stress once I turn the lights off.

How long should I wait after the tail is completely absorbed before I feed him?


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

I can't get a good picture of him but he's in the same spot as he was last night, but turned the other way. He looks very moist and there is a little stub where his tail used to be. I think it should be off in a few hours. Should I immediately start feeding after that? Out of all the crickets I got, less than 1/3 are the same size if not smaller than his little mouth, so he should be able to eat them. If I need more I can go to a pet shop, and if I need pinheads I can go to the vivarium store.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

I put in five small crickets for him to hunt and they hid all over the place. He may have gotten one because I was in the other room for a few minutes. Hopefully he can find the hidden ones. He doesn't like to hop around very much. Right now he's sitting on the moss at the base of the ivy which is planted into the back wall. 

_EDIT: Just took a good look at him. The patterns on his back are stunning! I think he has some red splotches coming in even, as well as green and brown!_


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Mr. Snuggles is a lot more active today. I walked into my room and saw him lounging on top of an ivy leaf about 6" from the light, just warming up. He jumped onto the background and then after a while jumped onto the glass. I'm currently working on a video diary of his first week out of the water, which I'll upload to YouTube by the end of this week.

Fluffeh has all four legs as of a few hours ago. His tail should start disappearing, and hopefully I can move him out of the water tomorrow or Wednesday. Here's a picture. It's not the best, but you can sorta see all four legs.


----------



## ryan10517 (Oct 23, 2010)

you definitely have some interesting frog names there! hahaha


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

I moved Fluffeh to the main viv last night. I watched him climb out of the water and then back in, and the last time he climbed in he tilted on his side and stopped breathing. I left him there for a few minutes thinking he would recover, but he was dead. Not sure exactly what happened. He was doing fine up until that point. Next time I may wait until the tail has absorbed a bit more before I make a move. 

On the other hand, I gave Mr. Snuggles some pinhead crickets. I saw him get one, and I saw him change position and aim towards the last one I put in. He is back at a resting position now, so I'm not sure if he got it. It's not a lot, but it's better than nothing. I'll order some Repashy Calcium Plus when I can, probably within the next fed days. 



ryan10517 said:


> you definitely have some interesting frog names there! hahaha


I had no clue what to name them. I always give my pets cute names. 
For the next guy I'm thinking Sir Fluffsalot. Of course, these names will change once I'm able to sex them. They'll have more serious names, like Gwen or Victor.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

Mr. Snuggles is fat and lazy. He's been sitting on an ivy leaf right under the warm light for a few hours now. He can take a day or two break from eating. 










I made an acrylic cover for the tank that can fit over the netting to lock the heat and moister in. I'll use that during the winter to keep Mr. Snuggles and his friends from hibernating.


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

So apparently you can't build your entire landscape out of Great Stuff. 

I ripped out the Great Stuff in the bottom, added aquarium gravel which slopes into the front center where I can siphon water from when needed, put my two pieces of driftwood in (after boiling), planted a bromeliad and another tropical plant in peat planters, added the put the peat plants on top of the gravel and covered the entire thing in a layer of Zilla coconut husk bedding in an expanding brick. I also got new moss from my yard (no pesticides or fertilizers), which I cleaned, and I covered the higher areas of the viv in the moss.










Hopefully this will provide better drainage to prevent mold, and if I get any mold I can order some springtails to clean it up.


----------



## EntoCraig (May 17, 2011)

looks awesome!


----------



## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

EntoCraig said:


> looks awesome!


Thanks! 

I added some golden-orange magnolia leaves to the sides on the front of the vivarium. On one side they are cascading down into the water. On the other side they are just sitting on flat ground. I boiled the leaves for 20 minutes at the highest temperature my stove would go to before adding them to the vivarium. 

I added my largest frog back first and he has been sitting on a bromeliad leaf all day. I just added the next largest and the substrate really bothered him. It got stuck to his body and he had to rub it off. He learned not to crawl around on the substrate and is now sitting on a piece of driftwood. I think the larger one was able to cope with the substrate better since he was stronger, so they should get used to it over time. My smallest dude still has a stub on his tail and isn't very active. He didn't eat when I fed the frogs in the holding tank that I used when redoing the viv. I think I'll leave him in there for a few days so he can finish morphing and grab a snack before I move him into the main viv.

The holding tank is a one gallon acrylic tank with a 5w light. I covered the bottom in moss and put a branch in there that he can climb on when he's ready. I mist is a few times each day because the water evaporates quickly. The temperature is room temperature, which is pretty warm to these guys which are used to 60F nights.


----------

