# Back to wanting frogs, could use help



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

After a few years of wanting frogs and taking care of fish I have come back to the boards, I never ended up setting up a frog tank when I was first on this site a while back and now that my girlfriend tells me she loves how cute the little buggers are she wants me to start one up. however it has been a while and I have forgotten everything that a frog requires. 
Things I have available due to my fish and plant keeping will be listed.
Several 10 gallon tanks
Fogger
led lights with moonlights fish tank canister filters
Knowledge of plants and their needs
many sterilite tubs
r/o system


I'm curious what else I need, lights plants, best foods[though I love the thought of aphids], cheapest frog to start with that is still beautiful. substrate choices links to easy but awesome background tutorials. a cheap way to set up diy misting. please any help possible would help for now i'll be searching all of the threads I can handle


----------



## Feelin Froggy (May 12, 2011)

I think most people on here are using either an egg crate or hydroton false bottom. Personally I use hydroton because its cheap, light, and one less thing I have to build or find parts for. 

On top of that use a filter layer. I use bio filters similar to those used by fish people. They don't mold or rot and again are easy to use.

On top of that some kind of soil mixture. I myself use a version of ABG mix. It's a concoction of coconut coir, peat, sphagnum, organic charcoal, crushed leaves, and orchid chips. 

Then a healthy layer of leaf litter. It provides hiding spots and a place for microfauna to grow.. little bugs like springtails and isopods. Food for your frogs but most importantly a great way to keep your tank clean. I prefer live oak and sea grape leaves for a top layer with a base layer of several ficus species. Looks great and works very well. I do add some palm fronds as well but mostly for asthetics.

As for food. Culturing fruit flies is pretty easy and inexpensive. You'll always have a ready source of food once you master it. Like I mentioned above springtails and isopods have become a popular bug to culture. There are a few types available... All you do is dump the contents of the culture in your tank and let nature do the rest.

As for frogs. Auratus are very beautiful bold frogs (for the most part) that are relatively east to take care of. Two will be very happy in a nicely planted 10 gallon tank. Others would be most of the tincs Morphs and possibly leucomelas (search the frogs for sale in the vendor sections below. All of those species are readily available)

As for the links... I'll let someone else do that lol. I'm on my cell phone and it doesnt cut and paste so well haha.

Ask all the questions you want on this forum. The folks here are very knowledgeable. Good luck!!!


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

Thank you for the suggestions, though I do not know where to find organic charcoal or peat moss that isn't finely milled will that be a problem? and is the filter floss a must? as far as the frogs thing hopefully I can find some nice darts that won't break the bank since I don't want to risk them. any specific lighting needs?


----------



## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

How to set up a vivarium:
Josh’s Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » Terrarium Construction


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

DrawntoLife said:


> Thank you for the suggestions, though I do not know where to find organic charcoal or peat moss that isn't finely milled will that be a problem? and is the filter floss a must? as far as the frogs thing hopefully I can find some nice darts that won't break the bank since I don't want to risk them. any specific lighting needs?


Natural charcoal can be found at big box stores, such as Lowe's and Walmart. It's big pieces, though, so you'll need a hammer 

Instead of peat moss, I use a bit of coco fiber. My substrate recipe is:

Orchid bark
Charcoal (crunched up into 1/4-1/2 inch pieces)
Dried sphagnum (crunched up and milled by hand)
Coco fiber (handful or so)

I don't have exact amounts of each, as I tend to wing it. Sometimes I add crunched up leaf litter for the bugs to munch on and sometimes I add a bit of LECA.


----------



## jrgobble (Jun 23, 2011)

I converted a 125 gallon tank to an outstanding frog tank. I used the egg crate type plastic for the false bottom. Left enough space to keep my old aquarium heater under water for temp control. I used one of my pumps from a protein skimmer and some plastic to create a waterfall for circulation. I am using my vho lights with some plant lights for the plants. The background was corkboard and the substrate was an internet recipe that included jungle floor mix, oak leaves from my yard, orchid moss, coco fiber, and reptile pellots. I have 10 frogs and I get eggs constantly. Good luck


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

Thanks alot guys =p. I just got home from the store, got a bunch of mopani wood, small pieces, some small grape wood branches 2 blocks of coco husk 4 cans of great stuff and some repcal and herpivite. still gotta clear out a fish tank for the space then i'll go get more materials for the substrate, I plan on using hydroton or hydroballs from a petstore if I can't find hydroton, I plan on following the 10g conversion guide for my first one. then will get a nice 18x18x24 exo terra or zoomed tank. anyone know much about aphids? I'd like to feed those and springtails over fruitflies


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I found some charcoal at my local grocery store(kroger) for $6










egg create false bottoms are a lot better than hydroton/LECA.
foggers aren't needed and give a viv a fake look. if it is an ultrasonic fogger like this(minus the LEDs)...it is useless for PDFs









this is what you want:









or a DIY fogger 








found here:http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/51299-best-humidifier-fogger.html


if that light fixture you're talking about is the Marineland LED fixture it isn't strong enough.

substrate: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...th-about-abg-mix.html?highlight=truth+ABG+mix
remember ABG is NOT ABG without the tree fern fiber and all the other ingredients.

misting: MistKing Misting Systems by Jungle Hobbies Ltd

there is no real way to DIY misting systems cause the pumps are exspensive so you're better off buying the starter system from mistking
only alternative:








or hand sprayers.

not trying to step on feeling froggy's toes but he is going the very unconventional route. I'd suggest you do the tank how everyone else does first then play around with alternatives.
no Auratus will not be for you if you're only gonna use a 10 gallon tank.
you should go bigger on the tank size.
what you're gonna want is a pair of thumbnails for a tank that small.

the best thing for you to do is use the search feature and gain knowledge about everything. I have been here for almost a year and have just built my first viv.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/search.php

please do things the right way and don't get cheap or do things "half ass"
(no disrespect I'm just saying) 
these are awesome majestic animals and deserve the best.
a lot of people here doesn't like to see people nickle and dime their way through builds.
I however barely paid anything cause I shopped smart.

good luck....and if you need any kind of reference on how to build a vert convert then check out mine http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/72499-10g-vert-semi-n00b-viv-pic-heavy.html


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

@DragonSpirit1185 


I have the zoomed reptifogger. gotta figure a way to fit the nozzle in the screen.

I am a longtime fish and planted tank and large fish keeper, i don't find being frugal is a good idea with anything, i just like DIY projects, any idea if there is a pump at lowes or home depot i can use? thanks for all the info, i need to start with cheaper frogs however and would prefer to get 3 for 20-35 each to start, and I may do a 20h if I can find one around.

if it helps to show my experience with plants and animals here is a fish tank, technically my second one, I spent about 9 months planning and getting my system together before building.








fairly old tank now.
thanks for the links, gonna check em all out


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

I must add I don't know where to get orchid bark or milled sphagnum, i assume i can crush that myself if I get a block though


also wouldn't dream of putting those cheap marineland leds over plants, i use par 38s and crees


----------



## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Welcome back! You're going to love your frogs, they are very interesting and beautiful creatures! 

I must be honest...I don't know much about aphids, but you're going to *need *to culture fruitflies. They are the main staple of the frog's diet. I really don't think there's any way around it. And don't forget supplements! Repashy products are highly recommended. The Calcium Plus is the one you don't want to go without.

Orchid bark and sphagnum can easily be found at most home improvement stores, such as Lowe's.

Good luck!


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

thank you =p aready picked up herpivite and repcal+ D3 though i may not have frogs for a couple months. gonna check lowes tomorrow have a few fish projects im working on that require me to pay a visit so adding that to my list is no biggy. any ideas where i can find the cheapest frogs? girlfriend likes azures though I like yellow or mint terrors[though the price is high]


----------



## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

"cheapest frogs"? There is a show coming up in two weeks in Pasadena. There are a few stores that buy from individuals around our area. Many a thread has stated it is best to find a local breeder. There are a few if us in your area.


----------



## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

Go with the pvc/ egg create. No water feature is needed (frogs dont use it and if too deep they can drown), and especially not for your 1st build. If you are going to do a BG take your time, if no BG you probably can do it off the fly, its simple. 2 of my best vivs dont have BG's. The repti fogger is good, just dont try to keep it on 24/7, because it would break in 23/7, its happened to me. You can have a piece of glass cut to put the hose inside or cut the screen wire. Put it on a timer and your good, pluse having it on all day will saturate you substrate, and kill your plants. Make sure you set up a place to drain the water (it happend on my 1st build). For lights you can get a dome from home depot/lowes and 65k CFL day light bulbs. The LED's don't light the entire tank from what I hear, but it might if you hang it. Get a glass or lexan top to keep your humidity. You can do acrylic but deeping on the heat of your bulb it may curl. If you arent buying a misting system, just go to your hardware store and a garden mister, they are cheaper and better than anything you would find in a pet store. Mist once or twice a day. Anything else every one is here to help.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

DrawntoLife said:


> @DragonSpirit1185
> 
> 
> I have the zoomed reptifogger. gotta figure a way to fit the nozzle in the screen.
> ...


you can't use screen top cages for PDFs
meh fish and frogs is a completely different thing.
what size tank are you gonna be doing?
I think I saw you was wanting to do a 10g vert and this light would be perfect http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sponsor-classifieds/74718-led-10-vert.html
and if you're gonna be doing a 10g vert then you're gonna want a pair of imitators...they are great beginner frogs and they are cheap


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

B-NICE said:


> Go with the pvc/ egg create. No water feature is needed (frogs dont use it and if too deep they can drown), and especially not for your 1st build. If you are going to do a BG take your time, if no BG you probably can do it off the fly, its simple. 2 of my best vivs dont have BG's. The repti fogger is good, just dont try to keep it on 24/7, because it would break in 23/7, its happened to me. You can have a piece of glass cut to put the hose inside or cut the screen wire. Put it on a timer and your good, pluse having it on all day will saturate you substrate, and kill your plants. Make sure you set up a place to drain the water (it happend on my 1st build). For lights you can get a dome from home depot/lowes and 65k CFL day light bulbs. The LED's don't light the entire tank from what I hear, but it might if you hang it. Get a glass or lexan top to keep your humidity. You can do acrylic but deeping on the heat of your bulb it may curl. If you arent buying a misting system, just go to your hardware store and a garden mister, they are cheaper and better than anything you would find in a pet store. Mist once or twice a day. Anything else every one is here to help.


meh LEDs work great of you get the right one....
like this one...it's a great deal..http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sponsor-classifieds/74718-led-10-vert.html


----------



## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

He said he was going to start off with a 10g, its a good start for your 1st viv.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

B-NICE said:


> He said he was going to start off with a 10g, its a good start for your 1st viv.


meh but it keeps you limited to only thumbnails.
good for a first viv yes.


----------



## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

You can get a pair or a trio of lecu's in there. I just put a trio in a 20L and its hard to find them. Not to mention how the plants growing wild.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

the tank size is between a 10g vert or 20h vert for the first viv, will be buying an 18x18x24 soon after i get good at making the soil, backgrounds and when i eventually buy a mistking system though i don't exactly want to i must. the par 38s i have put out more light than 2 24 watt t5HO tubes i'll only need one for the vert and 2 for the larger tank, the lighting i'm using isn't the problem, but am i right to assume they don't need uv lights? if they do i can pick up some uv leds from rapid leds. still need to get a hold of a 20h or something wider with rims. is a trio of d auratus khalua okay in a 20h?


----------



## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

The light is really for the plants and the frogs to hunt. Are you going to try to convert a 20h into a vert? A 20H should be good for them.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

B-NICE said:


> You can get a pair or a trio of lecu's in there. I just put a trio in a 20L and its hard to find them. Not to mention how the plants growing wild.


A trio of Luecs in a 10 gallon? I suppose if you are happy living in a closet. Give the poor little guys some room.



DrawntoLife said:


> thank you =p aready picked up herpivite and repcal+ D3 though i may not have frogs for a couple months. gonna check lowes tomorrow have a few fish projects im working on that require me to pay a visit so adding that to my list is no biggy. any ideas where i can find the cheapest frogs? girlfriend likes azures though I like yellow or mint terrors[though the price is high]


Repashy Calcium Plus will replace both of your supplements and is a much better product. Remember that we have removed the variety and the means to get vitamins and minerals from a captive frog. They now have to live on primarily on food source. You owe it to them to get the best vitamin supplements you can.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> A trio of Luecs in a 10 gallon? I suppose if you are happy living in a closet. Give the poor little guys some room.
> 
> 
> Repashy Calcium Plus will replace both of your supplements and is a much better product. Remember that we have removed the variety and the means to get vitamins and minerals from a captive frog. They now have to live on primarily on food source. You owe it to them to get the best vitamin supplements you can.


as an animal lover i appreciate the concern, however I don't plan on one food source, i don't do that to my fish dogs and never did it to my lizards, I unterstand fruitflies to be one of the best foods for the frogs in the hobby but i'll add aphids springtails rolly pollies and whatever tiny insect i can keep that they will eat and not kill them. i already bought the products so after i am out i'll buy repashy. i don't want to keep a trio in a 10 and would probably only do a duo in it if it came down to it, but i'll likely buy an exo terra rather than convert, as for the product being better i'm fairly certain the same stuff is in both just the two i got aren't in the same package


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

DrawntoLife said:


> as an animal lover i appreciate the concern, however I don't plan on one food source, i don't do that to my fish dogs and never did it to my lizards, I unterstand fruitflies to be one of the best foods for the frogs in the hobby but i'll add aphids springtails rolly pollies and whatever tiny insect i can keep that they will eat and not kill them. i already bought the products so after i am out i'll buy repashy. i don't want to keep a trio in a 10 and would probably only do a duo in it if it came down to it, but i'll likely buy an exo terra rather than convert, as for the product being better i'm fairly certain the same stuff is in both just the two i got aren't in the same package


That is more UN-true than you can possibly imagine. Allan Repashy has spent a lot of time, money, and research, developing his products and finding out what they really need. The two products you mentioned are very old school and so far from Repashy quality that it's not even close. I encourage you to search the board for more information on Allan Repashy's products before making such an UN-researched comment.
Remember also, that the problem is not only with a limited diet, but the conditions that the food items are raised in. You cannot duplicate how the bugs are raised in the wild, so they will never have the same vitamins and calcium that is available from wild bugs. Feeding wild bugs is always a risk. That leaves us with using the best vitamins and minerals that we can get.
You are seriously kidding yourself if you believe that all animal vitamin manufacturers are the same. There are NO departments to control quality, particle size, or even that it may be nothing more than ground oyster shell (which is useless due to the high levels of phosphorus attached). And yes, some of them are simply ground oyster shell.


----------



## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Wow Doug, Well put! Seriously though, to the OP. Allen creates WONDERFUL products and researches all these things extensively. Calcium plus is indeed highly superior to other commercial products. Also, why do a vert for auratus? You could do a trio in a 20H regularly and they'll be very happy.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks Neo, and to the OP, I was not harshing you for putting 3 luecs in a 10, I was commenting on some advise that I would question. Advise that someone else put forth.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Advice...Duhhh!


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

i took a second look at the repashy product mentioned and i feel rather ignorant, i apologize. that will be on the order list when i get the frogs for sure.
and about the luecs comment, i know, i never responded to that comment earlier because i didn't agree with it. thanks for the advice, does the repashy come in larger containers? is it carried at a big box?


also the vert question my answer is space and ease of maintenance i don't wish to reach my hands into the tank as god in a way and scare the little frogs. otherwise i could use a larger fish tank for it. but i've decided i'll just get an 18x18x24 zoo med terrarium at petsmart. i may still do thumbnails in a 10g as it will still be my first viv for GS BG practice


again thank you and I'm sorry =p


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Not a problem. Unless you have a HUGE collection, you will want the smallest size you can get. Remember that you are only using a dusting, just enough to coat the flies. A small amount goes a long way. Additionally, vitamins lose potency with time, heat, exposure to moisture...all the things we have in our frog rooms. Because of that, it is generally recommended to replace your vitamins every 6 months, whether there is any left or not. You also want to do your best to keep them dry and cool, but not frozen. Try keeping your main supply in the fridge, and put a week or two worth into a tightly closed container to keep in your frog room. When you refill it, never let the batch in the fridge warm up. Just fill at the kitchen counter and pop it back in.
If you are still keeping reptiles, Repashy makes high end products for them too.
If you are still thinking thumbnails for a first frog, make sure you do plenty of research. They are lightning fast, can escape through the tiniest crack or opening, and are less forgiving of running out of food as they have less body fat reserves. That said, the Imitator in all it's various morphs, is an excellent first thumbnail and is my favorite to this day.


----------



## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Repashy is available online through any of the dart vendors on here...josh's etc... I for one made the same mistake as you did and purchased repcal and herptivite when I first got into darts since I had used that for reptiles in the past. 

I can say that after a few months of breeding my frogs I wasn't getting nearly the number of good eggs as I had previously been. Since I switched to Repashy they're back to making perfect clutches. It really is worth taking the $20 hit and scrapping those two, especially when you consider how much everything else costs.


----------



## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

DrawntoLife said:


> i took a second look at the repashy product mentioned and i feel rather ignorant, i apologize. that will be on the order list when i get the frogs for sure.
> and about the luecs comment, i know, i never responded to that comment earlier because i didn't agree with it. thanks for the advice, does the repashy come in larger containers? is it carried at a big box?
> 
> 
> ...


Like posted above supplements will go bad but if you do want a large amount, repashy sells it online in large amounts. The only people that would need that much is someone with a large collection of over 50 frogs or so. Sadly Repashy products aren't sold in big box stores. If you're lucky, you might be able to get some at a mom and pa type store but it's kind of a specialty item mainly available online. Glad that you decided about going against 3 luecs in a 10g and wen't for the zoo med tank.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

=p zoo med for the khalua creams I want and i'll get a duo of imitators for the 10g if any, might use it for spawns at a later time imitators are pricey =p


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

also will a mini fridge or wine cooler be fine for the repashy? no frog room yet but it will be in my bedroom which has fish tanks. just glad my room is very aerated =p frog room to come in the future


also paid a visit to osh near my apartment and found black gold orchid bark and black gold charcoal, and some black gold canadian sphagnum peat that is finely milled. I also saw mountain moss green sphagnum moss, it comes in a block, could I used these to make abg? not having an easy time finding the fern stuff


----------



## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Neontra said:


> Like posted above supplements will go bad but if you do want a large amount, repashy sells it online in large amounts. The only people that would need that much is someone with a large collection of over 50 frogs or so. Sadly Repashy products aren't sold in big box stores. If you're lucky, you might be able to get some at a mom and pa type store but it's kind of a specialty item mainly available online. Glad that you decided about going against 3 luecs in a 10g and wen't for the zoo med tank.


I have gotten Repashy products at both Petsmart and Petco.


----------



## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DrawntoLife said:


> not having an easy time finding the fern stuff


OFE International Web Page just make sure they don't forget your order 
also Exo-Terra has come out with treefern substrate. Doesn't seem to be totally treefern fibers, but it may be worth investigating.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Mini fridge is fine. Try to get a moisture absorber out of a vitamin bottle, or order online, to toss in with your Repashy. OFE is a good place to find EVERYTHING you need to make ABG, but honestly, unless you are doing 10 vivs worth, it is cheaper just to order premade ABG from Josh's Frogs.
FieldnStream, thanks for the heads up on the Exo tree fern.


----------



## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

fieldnstream said:


> I have gotten Repashy products at both Petsmart and Petco.


Really? Dang, I wish my petco/petsmart carried things like that....


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> I have gotten Repashy products at both Petsmart and Petco.





Neontra said:


> Really? Dang, I wish my petco/petsmart carried things like that....


Make sure they are fresh. That can be a problem with a time sensitive item like vitamins when dealing with "big box" stores.


----------



## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Neontra said:


> Really? Dang, I wish my petco/petsmart carried things like that....


I should clarify that I got the old ICB from both of those places, not sure if they carry the updated products.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

they do not =\ checked both =p


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

picked up some brown silicone today tired of searching for non tempered tank bottoms so im just going to petco and picking up a 20H for GS back practice. will post photos if i remember to of my progress, and as much as i like the simplicity of eggcrate i'm going with a leca false bottom because it is much cheaper for me to buy, unless someone nearby has some to spare for a few bucks, which reminds me i need to find help drilling a small hole =p the plants have so far been a little planned but mostly winging, i want some red hues and creeping fig some moss and some dwarf and regular baby tears, an orchid if the setup allows one. the lights are super intense 20 watt leds that will be attached to dimmers and I need to fashion a hanging kit for them but for a while will sit near glass. shortly after the background is complete i need bugs! =] 


anyone in oc that reads this that has tree fern fiber please let me know i'm willing to pay for a little as well as some dried oak, mine are all still a little green


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Did you research your silicone choice? It's not all completely safe. GE silicone 2 has organotins in it that have been linked to egg failure and spindly leg syndrome. Here is that thread. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/35720-bio-seal.html After reading that thread, I made GE silicone 1 my choice. It's hard to find it colored though. You may have to look online.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

damnit someone recommended silicone 2 and i got 5 tubes.... i guess i'll be exchanging then, by the way do you have any experience with utricularia graminifolia? i have quite a bit of it and it is a bladderwort i believe carnivorous but it is so small almost like micro grass. would you think it might cause issues?


----------



## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

bladderworts are carniverous, but it won't cause you any issues with frogs. I can't give you any advice on graminifolia specifically, but if you get it to take off I may want to place an order from you!


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

freaky_tah said:


> bladderworts are carniverous, but it won't cause you any issues with frogs. I can't give you any advice on graminifolia specifically, but if you get it to take off I may want to place an order from you!


i have a couple 2x2 patches and a 4x2 now dunno what to do with them yet


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

no luck at petco so time to search for a used 20h or similar tank from aquarists


----------



## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Are you looking for a tank just to practice before you build? If you're curious about what the GS will do, you can just test it on a sheet of styrofoam or cardboard, etc... Just put it on in thin layers, let it cure a bit, then add more if you're looking to create depth. Once it's hard grab the knife and carve away!


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

i need practice actually making the background, also the greatstuff has the potential to split the corners of the glass, which is why im not going straight to my exo with it thank you though


----------



## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

DrawntoLife said:


> i need practice actually making the background, also the greatstuff has the potential to split the corners of the glass, which is why im not going straight to my exo with it thank you though


No worries. I've heard about tanks cracking I've just never had it happen to me. Just take your time, apply it slowly and you'll be fine.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

not finding any 20h around me.... may just have to use a 10g for my first which isn't that big a deal i guess


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

so all the stores around me as far as pet stores kind of suck, can't find a 20h at petcos, and petsmart only sells it as a bundle which I really don't want. anyway getting tired of waiting for the 20h few more days and i'll just get the exo terra 18x18x24 kit and work on that. on a side note as much as I hate to ask this question can I keep 4 d. vents or tincs in a 20h vert? will have alot of walking room as I plan on tiers. if not i'll set up two for 2 in each one. just would rather get the 4 for 100 deal


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

People will argue both ways about 4 vents in there. I think most of us will probably agree that 4 tincs is too many unless you are talking for the first few months of grow out.
In my opinion, with a lot of tiers, shelves, from cork bark, ghost wood, etc, well planned out for lots of climbing room and plenty of cover, 4 vents would be ok in there. If you are going to "crowd" a group of frogs, vents seem to do better than others.
That said, a little more floor space would be even better for a group of four. My group of 4 Green Sirenses (formerly Lamasi) are enjoying a 12" x 24" x 24" tall slope front viv. It's about 25 gallons but the extra floor space is great for hunting and microfauna.
Back to the Tincs...They do better as a pair and they NEED more floor space. You could use a 20 but not 20 vert for a pair of Tincs.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

thank you doug was hoping it would be you to respond i'll do the vents but will use as a growout, ill be making 10g vert aswell so if it ever comes to it and i don't like my exo i'll split the four till i get a bigger tank for them. tired of looking for a tank =p i think i like vents a little more btw


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Looked into Imitators at all? That would be my first choice for a first thumbnail. A lot of different colors/morphs to choose from too: Varadero, Standard greens, Tarapoto, Intermedius, Banded Intermedius, Baja Halluga and the list goes on. They do better in pairs though.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

for now I would prefer not to go with $50+ frogs =p soon though.


----------



## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

I agree with Doug, I wouldn't use a 20 vert for tincs. A standard 20 gal tank would work for 4 tincs while they're young, but as they get older, you would need to split them up. Besides needing the room, they can get aggressive as they near maturity. You may get lucky and get a trio to co-exist peacefully, but usually you would want to stick to a pair in a 20.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

got a couple 6 quart shoe boxes for my springs or giant orange isos. not sure which to go with at this moment


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

DrawntoLife said:


> got a couple 6 quart shoe boxes for my springs or giant orange isos. not sure which to go with at this moment


You mean choosing between springs or isos? You'll spend more on shipping than on the bugs so save up a few more dollars and get both. If it helps, if I could only keep 3 types of bugs, they would be: 
1) Melonogaster fruit flies (flightless vestigial winged--I haven't tried the Turkish gliders yet but it sounds like they are as prolific)
2) Pink Springtails --second choice temperates--Pink is my first choice because they seem to establish better in my vivs. Temperates are actually more prolific if you are strictly culturing for feedings.
3) Dwarf white isopods--Thumbs and pums love the babies, while bigger frogs will enjoy all sizes.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

is there any way i can convince you to ship those if you have them currently? i still need tree fern fiber for the abg mix and a good charcoal when i went to lowes i couldn't find it in the garden section. and are they really pink?


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Sorry, not at this time. Teddy (tclipse) and Jeremy Huff, amongst others, have some nice selections of bugs.
No, they are not really pink. They are more of an eggshell/beige. I only call them Pink because the hobby does. While we are at it, "Purple" Dwarf Isopods are not really purple either. Much closer to gray if you ask me.
Thankfully, the Giant Oranges really are orange!


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> Sorry, not at this time. Teddy (tclipse) and Jeremy Huff, amongst others, have some nice selections of bugs.
> No, they are not really pink. They are more of an eggshell/beige. I only call them Pink because the hobby does. While we are at it, "Purple" Dwarf Isopods are not really purple either. Much closer to gray if you ask me.
> Thankfully, the Giant Oranges really are orange!


=p sounds good, i still kind of want the giant oranges my girlfriend said she wouldn't mind seeing them in the tank so they're worth a shot, I love all the methods you had for keeping the bugs and hope it works out for me, im gonna get more shoeboxes tomorrow. glad i can reuse the FF cups too. i'm so confused what to start with as far as frogs but will most likely be from a local as winter approaches i can easily see 53 degree afternoons


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

As much as I love my thumbs, I gotta say that bigger frogs like tincs or Luecs make better first frogs. Thumbs can be so reclusive as to turn off a first time keeper.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

would I be able to keep luecs or say khalua cream auratus in a group while young? i'll be setting several tanks up but seems I am stuck with a 10g for now as no one has just a 20h around for me to use and i hate the idea of overhead maintenance, though I will have a standard 10g for a QT. still have a lot to learn about individual frogs


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I have never kept Auratus so I'm not a good source of info there. I would think a group of 4 young Luecs would be fine in a 20 gallon for 6 or 8 months. They will want a little more space as they near maturity. They should be pretty bold for you and they'll do some climbing too. They also meet your criteria for a less expensive frog.


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

yeah i have seen them for around $30 which is fine i like that they climb because i'd like a nicely ledged background background


----------



## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

I do have 1 single auratus but plan to get more, and if you ask anyone who has kept them (my self included) they are INCREDIBLY prolific. Mine only comes out to eat springs on the leaf litter or eat ffs, and maybe will come out randomly. Speaking of springs, i've only tried white springs but I can tell you, everything is covered in them. I gave it a few weeks to establish and it's scary crazy. I can post pictures if you want. i always though springs were pretty prolific but seeing hundreds just on the top of the leaf litter is scary. Good luck with your frogs!


----------



## DrawntoLife (Nov 12, 2009)

after some reading I won't be getting my khaluas =\ they are a bit too large to keep in the 10 to start IMO, so i'm going with vents for the smaller tank and then leucs a little later once the next tank is ready. i want to get some giant orange isos and some pink springs for my viv.

thanks for the encouragement, i love some of the auratus.


----------

