# 36x18x24 Azureus build



## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

In the next few weeks I will be starting on setting this thing up. The viv and cork box (flats/rounds) are coming this week. I'm going to do an egg crate false bottom this time. The overall idea is to have the background and one side covered to make it feel like the base of a tree buttress (I'm lacking in creativity, so bear with me) that is overgrown with forest debris and plants. Or who knows how it will end up looking lol.

I love the look of the nicrew planted plus with the imitator viv. For this one, I don't want the green led (it makes the imis pop) so I'm going with nicrew skyLED, it has a higher par rating for the extra height, and no green led, just white, blue, red.

Has anyone used greenhouse polycarbonate sheet as a top? I'm not to keen on a 36"wide glass lid with no support at the back for ventilation...plus a kitten that loves all my tanks  I need to make a new top for my 29 gal aquarium because the acrylic warps too often (sick of flipping it every few days!) So I'm goin to get a few panels and cut them to size.

I've been trying to get substrate/litter/plants from one place to save on shipping, but that doesn't look like its going to happen!

Here's my wishlist:
a couple coco huts
a few lliana vines
monkey pods
live oak and magnolia leaf litter
a piece of ghost wood? not sure on this yet, as I have to build the background 

As for plants:
Oak leaf creeping fig
Peperomia angulata or prostrata
Monstera adansonii
Alocasia poly
Philodendron birkin and or wendimbe still undecided if any
Monocostus unifloris (already have cutting started)
Macodes petola (because, why not, I think I need it in all my vivs)
Moss/liverwort covered wood in the leaf litter
I might throw in brom pups as mine multiply, but its not in my initial plans

The weather is still risky for shipping so I've been watching these all go out of stock in various places.
Thats it for now. I'll hopefully have an update this weekend!


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

You could use thicker molded plexiglass, it really doesn't warp, unless the span becomes too big. But you could bridge that by mounting some strips in the width, so that the plate has support.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

QUOTE="Frogmanjared, post: 3123570, member: 126912"]
Has anyone used greenhouse polycarbonate sheet as a top?
[/QUOTE]
Polycarbonate contains endocrine disruptors, and so isn't an ideal choice.

Thicker tempered glass (1/4") might be cat-safe, although having a piece cut in a sort of a T-shape (with large-ish notches on the back left and back right, into which you could set screen inserts) would be even better -- so, a ~36 x 18 rectangle, with a, say, 4.5" x 12" cutout on the two back corners would leave a 12" support to reach the back lip of the viv and would give open area equal to a 3" strip across the back.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Robru said:


> You could use thicker molded plexiglass, it really doesn't warp, unless the span becomes too big. But you could bridge that by mounting some strips in the width, so that the plate has support.


Price wise, I’ll have to compare.


Socratic Monologue said:


> QUOTE="Frogmanjared, post: 3123570, member: 126912"]
> Has anyone used greenhouse polycarbonate sheet as a top?


Polycarbonate contains endocrine disruptors, and so isn't an ideal choice.

Thicker tempered glass (1/4") might be cat-safe, although having a piece cut in a sort of a T-shape (with large-ish notches on the back left and back right, into which you could set screen inserts) would be even better -- so, a ~36 x 18 rectangle, with a, say, 4.5" x 12" cutout on the two back corners would leave a 12" support to reach the back lip of the viv and would give open area equal to a 3" strip across the back.
[/QUOTE]

Time to get a quote I suppose! Good suggestion. Hopefully they won’t charge an arm or a leg for extra cuts. I wonder if an aquarium plastic hinge for lids would be enough support across the back. Options...


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I use One Day Glass for online purchases -- I don't have a local glass shop. Notches aren't cheap -- I think they use a water jet to cut them.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Polycarbonate contains endocrine disruptors, and so isn't an ideal choice.


There's always something. 😖 

I have some custom Exo Terra lids en route and of course they have 30" x 8" polycarbonate windows in them. 

I think they're bolted in so they could be retro-fitted, what I wonder at this point is how dangerous those strips 33" above the frogs' heads are from a leaching standpoint, and then there's the fact that a lot of reptile/amphibian enclosures and enclosure components are made with PVC which contains pthalates, also endocrine disruptors I believe. 

_bangs head against nearest wall_


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Fahad said:


> and then there's the fact that a lot of reptile/amphibian enclosures and enclosure components are made with PVC which contains pthalates, also endocrine disruptors I believe.


Do folks use these for amphibians? They're challenging to waterproof effectively at the seams, IME. I lacked the foresight to solvent weld mine when I assembled them, though.

Unfortunately, for many reptile species PVC enclosures and polyethylene tubs are far superior to glass enclosures. mostly because they hold heat well, but also because they are opaque. The (possibly very slight; I don't know) risk to frogs might not be worth taking if there are suitable safer and easily accessible alternatives.

I suppose there is an untutored intuition that frogs would be more able to uptake leached plastisizers than would reptiles (or humans), but a little internet searching suggests that's not entirely accurate.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Do folks use these for amphibians? They're challenging to waterproof effectively at the seams, IME. I lacked the foresight to solvent weld mine when I assembled them, though.
> 
> Unfortunately, for many reptile species PVC enclosures and polyethylene tubs are far superior to glass enclosures. mostly because they hold heat well, but also because they are opaque. The (possibly very slight; I don't know) risk to frogs might not be worth taking if there are suitable safer and easily accessible alternatives.
> 
> I suppose there is an untutored intuition that frogs would be more able to uptake leached plastisizers than would reptiles (or humans), but a little internet searching suggests that's not entirely accurate.


There's an old thread on PVC builds here wherein Ed provided this now defunct link that seemed to put some people's minds at ease (*EDIT: that's actually not definite, I re-read it), and there are anecdotal reports as well that suggest it's a usable material.

For myself, I'm exploring the possibility of using PVC for a *large *enclosure in order to take advantage of lighter weight and the possibility of being able to take it apart should I need to move it, but waterproofing it remains a challenge -- even if I didn't 'weld' the upper seams the bottom needs to be watertight.

May be able to solve that by designing as a sort of tray a separate bottom section that encompasses floor/false bottom/ substrate but it'll take some thought as I'm not sure if it would end up over-designed without enough pay-off for the material choice.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

For the time being, I’ll use the exo-terra screen lid and cut inserts to control the ventilation.

Cork comes today! I can test out some layouts!


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Bad news first... the enclosure was on the delivery truck, but it was labeled as cancelled. Apparently the driver declared it damaged...  I’m hoping he didn’t attempt because of the size.

In good news, the cork came, holy @[email protected]! 10# goes a long way! That’s 23”+


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

Frogmanjared said:


> Bad news first... the enclosure was on the delivery truck, but it was labeled as cancelled. Apparently the driver declared it damaged...  I’m hoping he didn’t attempt because of the size.


Hopefully your viv has no transport damage, that would be very annoying at a new start ... wait even longer


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

It’s a bad/good/bad/good news kind of day! Viv was returned and I’m getting a refund (didn’t even get to see the damage). this morning I ordered from a place I can drive to. They called and said they sold their last one before website updated... but I will have the next one they receive! Just a waiting game now, but at least I get the size I want.

With the cork that arrived, I might rethink the setup. That huge cork round could lead to some interesting formations. Any ideas?


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Frogmanjared said:


> It’s a bad/good/bad/good news kind of day! Viv was returned and I’m getting a refund (didn’t even get to see the damage). this morning I ordered from a place I can drive to. They called and said they sold their last one before website updated... but I will have the next one they receive! Just a waiting game now, but at least I get the size I want.
> 
> With the cork that arrived, I might rethink the setup. That huge cork round could lead to some interesting formations. Any ideas?


You could make a fallen tree trunk/log-like effect. I saw a really cool one on this thread.








Epipedobates tricolor �Cielito� (WIKIRI)


Re: Epipedobates tricolor ‘Cielito’ (WIKIRI) Very nice! How big are yours? Think they're close to adult size or still pretty young? I think they are still quite young; though, I've been meaning to ask about what age these frogs are. They are maybe 15mm in length (or a little less) at the moment.




www.dendroboard.com




The guy said he used apple tree branches which I’m not sure if they rot easily.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Here’s one possible layout. Behold the cardboard vivarium, lol. The large tube is placed in a way that the frogs could travel on top or through it, adding another shelter. It’s still ideal, but it’s a start. I want to create as much useful surface as possible. Maybe I could create another ramp on the right side of the viv.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Frogmanjared said:


> Here’s one possible layout. Behold the cardboard vivarium, lol. The large tube is placed in a way that the frogs could travel on top or through it, adding another shelter. It’s still ideal, but it’s a start. I want to create as much useful surface as possible. Maybe I could create another ramp on the right side of the viv.
> 
> View attachment 297972


I feel this would be much better for a more arboreal frog like Whites. I like it though.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

FroggerFrog said:


> I feel this would be much better for a more arboreal frog like Whites. I like it though.


I tried to keep the angles pretty low to encourage climbing. Given it’s only around 16” at the highest point, it doesn’t seem arboreal, IMO. Arboreal to me would me more vertical climbing. This setup is like fallen branches. The lliana vine will be somewhere for a marcgravia. I agree climbers would like this as well.

Can any tinc keepers suggest if azureus will utilize this?


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Frogmanjared said:


> I tried to keep the angles pretty low to encourage climbing. Given it’s only around 16” at the highest point, it doesn’t seem arboreal, IMO. Arboreal to me would me more vertical climbing. This setup is like fallen branches. The lliana vine will be somewhere for a marcgravia. I agree climbers would like this as well.
> 
> Can any tinc keepers suggest if azureus will utilize this?


Oh here! I have an overgrown tank and the tincs climb on this one plant (believe it’s a _Pothos sp._) like tree frogs. It’s kinda funny seeing them climb from one branch to another.

You’re right. They will utilize it. I was thinking you might of been getting maybe a more terrestrial species. I don’t keep auratus but from what I’ve heard, they stick to the ground more often. If you add broad leaf plants however, they might utilize them equally the same. Just a thought.


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## hansgruber7 (Mar 23, 2020)

I have Azureus and they will definitely use all that space. Looks good.


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

FroggerFrog said:


> believe it’s a _Pothos sp._


I believe pothos is only a common name. The genus name is _Epipremnum. _Sorry to be "that guy" 🙂. Although, there are some true Pothos species. I just rarely ever see them used in vivs, and it's often just a mislabeled _Scindapsus, Rhaphidophora, Monstera,_ or _Epipremnum_ species, or just something super hard to ID.

I don't personally keep tincs, but a friend does. They will absolutely use any space you give them, like leucs (but tincs are bigger and less graceful about it.) I think the setup looks great for them.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Kribensis said:


> I believe pothos is only a common name. The genus name is _Epipremnum. _Sorry to be "that guy" 🙂.
> 
> I don't personally keep tincs, but a friend does. They will absolutely use any space you give them, like leucs (but tincs are bigger and less graceful about it). I think the setup looks great for them.


Ah, well again, not really a plant guy so thanks.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Yup, I was planning on plants they won’t trample!

I was worried about clumsy frogs falling off, so the angles and width of surfaces is on my mind.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

I received a couple plants on my wishlist today! Philodendron verrucosum and monstera adansonii .If the vivarium doesn’t come soon I may upgrade to the 36” high just for more space for these glorious leaves when they grow in. I’m nervous about my planned lighting if I do go that route.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

It is time!


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## Dawsokj1988 (May 26, 2017)

Looks like a great build in the making.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Excuse the terrible lighting from my porch! Now, time for sleep it is!
















I guess I fell asleep as I was typing this, lol


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Time for a rest! Hard parts are done!


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## FrogMamma (Aug 3, 2020)

I need to stop looking at build threads, because they make me want to buy another viv to play with


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

I got the rack up! It’s 48”x24”x70” Got the drainage layer cut and installed! I used coarse aquarium filter pad. There’s just a hint of silicone, so I’ll wait for a few more days to put in the substrate and leaf litter. Temporary lighting for this picture.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

I’m having difficulty deciding where to put the P. verrucosum and M. adansonii. I have 1 verrucosum and 2 adansonii, and suggestions?


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Got the planting done today!


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

I figured it’s about time to give a viv tour.









Top veiws, from left - right:
























Some plant close-ups

























I’m looking forward to watching it all grow!


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## hansgruber7 (Mar 23, 2020)

Is that last one a dwarf Philodendron verrucosum? Where did you get it? Do they get too big for a vivarium? I love that plant but can't find it and worried they get too big.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

hansgruber7 said:


> Is that last one a dwarf Philodendron verrucosum? Where did you get it? Do they get too big for a vivarium? I love that plant but can't find it and worried they get too big.


It’s not a mini  I got it and the M. adansonii from frog daddy. Glassbox tropicals did have the mini in stock a while ago, but I couldn’t justify the cost. The standard grows large, so time will tell if it gets too crazy in here.


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## hansgruber7 (Mar 23, 2020)

Frogmanjared said:


> It’s not a mini  I got it and the M. adansonii from frog daddy. Glassbox tropicals did have the mini in stock a while ago, but I couldn’t justify the cost. The standard grows large, so time will tell if it gets too crazy in here.


Thanks. How long does it take to outgrow your vivarium? I would love to get the regular, but am worried about it outgrowing too quickly. Those are expensive too, right? Where did you get that one?


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

hansgruber7 said:


> Thanks. How long does it take to outgrow your vivarium? I would love to get the regular, but am worried about it outgrowing too quickly. Those are expensive too, right? Where did you get that one?


This is my first verrucosum (standard) so I’m not sure how it will grow. I’m sure it will grow differently with lighting, humidity, and amount of substrate that each vivarium being so variable. I’m hoping it will grow compact with leaves closer together and around the size of my extended hand. 

Mini is more expensive than standard (which I have) and I got it from frogdaddy.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

I found a wishlist plant at Lowe’s last week. Alocasia ‘polly’ I hope it does well.








I wish I was a frog so I could rest under this!


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I use alocasia "Polly" in one of my vivariums. It works well enough


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## DendroJoris (Apr 13, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> I use alocasia "Polly" in one of my vivariums. It works well enough


Won't it get to big to fast tho? 
I have an Alocasia Amazonica 'small' (if I'm not mistaken it's the same or almost the same) that's bigger than my 18"x18"x24" and it's about a year old. Most of the time plants in my viv grow even faster than in the living room.

Luckily alocasia makes an amazing ornamental plant in the living room and doesn't have an intricate root system, so I think it's easily removeable when it gets to big.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

DendroJoris said:


> Won't it get to big to fast tho?
> I have an Alocasia Amazonica 'small' (if I'm not mistaken it's the same or almost the same) that's bigger than my 18"x18"x24" and it's about a year old. Most of the time plants in my viv grow even faster than in the living room.
> 
> Luckily alocasia makes an amazing ornamental plant in the living room and doesn't have an intricate root system, so I think it's easily removeable when it gets to big.


Maybe it's just my tank/setup but they haven't grown much height at all in the 9 months that I've had it in the tank.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

The juveniles are going into the big vivarium! I wonder which ones I will end up with as adults?


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Froglets grow like weeds! All five are doing well. The large cork round is the place to be since it has a steady supply of springtails roaming about. Here are some feeding pictures and what I saw when I got home today.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

So this was the vivarium 5 months ago.
View attachment 300053


The alocasia has grown taller, but the leaves remain a good climbing surface for the frogs. The oak leaf creeping fig is taking hold and finally spreading. I attribute that to the frog poop tea I apply to the base of the plant/leaves. I've taken quite a few cuttings from the Monstera adansonii, but I'm fine with cutting a vigorous grower. A new addition has been the Monstera siltepecana in the front left. It took a while to acclimate, but it has sent out its first new leaf about to unfurl. The Philodendron verrocusum has a bud growing that I assume will be its first mature leaf.
The water dish is a temporary feature, only in for one day at a time. I'll decide to spray heavily and sometimes put it in as heavy rain enrichment.
















The top of the large cork tube is where the cool frogs hang out most of the time while not foraging. The black foot rabbits fern has taken off and the frogs enjoy the cover it provides.








I believe the group (to be split up in the not too distant future) is a 2.2.1 The one I'm unsure of is the size of the males but has smaller toe pads. I have seen two males calling, the ones I suspect as female are huge with smaller front toe pads. I have not witnessed or seen any evidence of aggression or intimidation. That's a plus, as it gives me more time to decide which ones I will keep. I'm really hoping to figure out the unknown frog. I like its pattern, but if it is a female I might go with one of the larger females. The two males are tricky to decide as well, lol. 
Some random frog shots.


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

I have taken out the Alocasia. It wasn't doing the best and its usefulness to the frogs was declining. I'm going to attempt a rattlesnake plant in its place. The frogs seem to enjoy it so far!










The Sonerila sp (heterostemon) is alive and well. I planted a cutting and it appeared to die, but it has sprouted from the leaf litter and now has four tiny leaves! Pictures don't do a justice to those spots!









I received a 2nd nicrew skyled that I'm going to add so I can get better light distribution. These are much narrower than their planted+ model. I will play with the dimming controls to get an optimal light level (I hope). 

There are still 5 sub-adults in here. Weather stopped the sale of two and some finespot froglets last week. 

Happy new year everyone!


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Not a frog, but I love this picture!








Here are some frogs!


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Get that cat out of the tank! You know we discourage mixing of vertebrates on this forum  .

Great shots and gorgeous frogs!


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Update time! I have 2.1 in this viv, until I decide which male to keep. It a hard decision to make as I see one hanging out near the female more often, but the other male is more stunning and larger. This picture might be a couple months old, as the marcgravia is a good 6" longer now.









There's been some cool mushrooms since I moved the viv upstairs. The Sonerila is still fun to start at.









I put a shallow dish of clay and water in as a vernal pool and the frogs loved the first time I put this one in. The two boys were at a show! The fungus all over stopped growing and was easily washed off with a change in nozzle spray and is nearly gone now. It liked the cool basement, and probably less airflow. The living room is a mush more active environment and they are bolder than ever, even with my kids trying to break the floors!


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