# Dart Frogs and a Cat



## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

Have any of you ever had your cat get one of your frogs? Actually the cat didn't get in. The frog got out last night and apparently the cat got him. He didnt eat him, but I'm sure he stressed him to death. I now have an extremely sick cat. He doesn't act THAT bad, but he is throwing up a LOT. I'm not sure that there is anything I can do. 

Oh, for those of you who are wondering it was a vent about 8 years old. And, the frog apparently climbed out through a very small hose which he reached by ONE evergrown plant. That is the ONLY way he could have made it out. 

Steph


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

That's a shame. Not trying to degrade your loss, but that is nice evidence that PDFs do maintain a mild toxicity even in captivity.


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## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

Actually that is my thought everytime I find myself cleaning up after the cat. 

The being sick has been a distraction from loosing the frog.. crazy as it sounds I was pretty upset then I realized that my cat is still sick from it. Now I'm worried about him. 
I'm sure that he'll be fine, but man he is really sick! 

I can tell you.. Keep your plants trimmed, and your lids on tight......


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## Mikembo (Jan 26, 2009)

I can second this! Just lost my Yellowback the other day by not closing the lid after feeding. I feared my cat would find him first but I found him the next day, turned into "frog Jerky".



lovnchely said:


> I can tell you.. Keep your plants trimmed, and your lids on tight......


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## Dragonfly (Dec 5, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss. How is your cat?


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## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

He was throwing up ever few hours. He stopped all afternoon. Last time was about noon, then he did it again about 6. The time between is getting farther apart so I'm asuming that means he is getting better. He did eat a few times but only a few pieces at a time. It is just the acids in the stomach, no blood. I'm hoping that he will be better in the next few days. I'll watch for certian concerns and if they appear I'll take him to the vet. 

Thanks for asking...
Steph


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Was this originally a Wild Caught frog, or was it captive bred? It seems rather weird to me that a CB frog would maintain any kind of toxicity....


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Was this originally a Wild Caught frog, or was it captive bred? It seems rather weird to me that a CB frog would maintain any kind of toxicity....


I'd be interested in knowing this as well.


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## Ziggi (Jan 23, 2009)

I though the frogs got their toxicity from alkaloids.
Alkaloids in the plants, bugs eat the plants, frogs eat the same bugs.
I also didn't think that frogs produced their own toxins in captivity.


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## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

They were CB frogs!


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## Rich Conley (Jun 12, 2008)

bobberly1 said:


> that is nice evidence that PDFs do maintain a mild toxicity even in captivity.


No, its not. Its an anecdote. Coincidences do happen.



(I'm not saying its not true, but that nothing can be discerned from one sick cat)


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Even cb frogs will have some funky protections against bacteria and the like in the high humidity environ of a terrarium. Think about the nasty stuff that grows in a warm moist enivironment and then relaize what a frogs body produces that protects itself from those critters. I would suspect that the cat would be well very quickly, true poisen would have made the cat release the frog immediately as soon as the poisen hit the cats mouth.


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## tonying (Mar 6, 2008)

I recall reading many years ago that most frogs have an irritant in their skin to make predators drop them upon contact with the inside of the predator's mouth. Typically, this has no effect on us humans but it could very well be causing these symptoms in the cat. Many years ago, I had fire-bellied toads and handled them with my bare hands (after cleaning and moistening them of course). Later I was told that I should wear gloves if I was handling them on a daily basis since the irritant might otherwise have an effect on my skin over a long-term period.

So, this would indicate that at least some frogs have a much milder irritant that is separate from the powerful toxins that the PDFs secrete in the wild, something even CB frogs could produce on a normal diet of typical feeder insects. Could it be the case that the PDFs have this as well?


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## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

I am sure that he didn't ingest any part of the frog. Although I'm sure he played with him a bit. He definately stoped playing with him because had he continued I would have found the frog under a couch or in the corner somewhere. The frog was out in the open, which would tell me that the cat simply walked away from him. 

This is the only thing that my cat came in contact with. I know this only because he doesn't go outside and I have two dogs that are just fine. They haven't had any signs of being sick at all. 

I too have had a run in with Fire Bellied toads. I didn't touch the forgs, but cleaned out there water. Apparently at some point during the cleaning I rubbed my hands on me face. I have a mild rash the next day that itched like hell. Nothing serious. 

I will post more on my cats condition this evening. Last night he spent the night in a bedroom and he was sick twice over night. Still purring though!


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## tonying (Mar 6, 2008)

My guess would be that the cat either tried to pick the frog up in its mouth (I've seen cats do that many times, if they're curious and playing they may try to pick something up without harming it) and thus been exposed to the toxin or it may have ended up getting it on its paws and then ingested it during grooming. Either way, it's probably only a matter of getting it out of the system. As long as there are no neurological symptoms and you can keep the cat hydrated and at least somewhat fed, I don't think there's much to worry about. Then again, I'm not a vet so I can't do more than speculate wildly.


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## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

That is pretty much my thinking as well. He did eat some yesterday, but nothing overnight. 
I try to keep moist food on hand for times that my animals get sick. (because of the food and water in the same feeding) I don't have any moist cat food but will probably pick some up on the way home. He isn't as energetic as normal, but he isn't just laying there either. 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I do feel better.. My thought was he should be sickest right after ingesting toxin. I did have a lot to clean up the following morning. Yesterday it seems to be that there was more time between messes. I would think that is "normal".


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the frog. And I feel bad for your cat as well. I to have had frogs get out, and my cats just look at them funny, never really try to eat them, but then again when I see a cat crouch on the floor like its ready to pounce it usually warrents some some interest by me. Anyways I'll pass this by my gf who is a vet technician but she will probably say the same things posted in the thread about how the frog may have some protection on there skin which may cause the cat to be sick for a while. Hope the cat feels better


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your cat . Last summer in Montana my shepard put her mouth around a toad before I could stop her. She dropped the toad and for a good half an hour she was drooling like crazy (toad hopped away). I am actually kind of glad as I have woodhouse toads living wild in my back yard and would like to think she learned her lesson.

Sally


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## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

I got home yesterday and Stoney had not gotten sick anymore. However, he hadn't ate or drank anything either. I bought him some moist food and I set some out for him. He didn't touch it... in fact wouldn't even lay by it. Before I went to bed I dropped a few in his mouth and he ate those. Also, gave his a tsp of water. I woke up this morning and checked on him. He was sick two times last night. I'm calling the vet this morning to see if I need to have him hooked up to an IV. 

I must say that this has got me thinking that maybe I should get out of the dart frog hobby. I have been in the hobby for a few years, but this really concerns me. If my small dog had gotten the frog he would probably be much worse than my cat is.. 

Steph


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

lovnchely said:


> I got home yesterday and Stoney had not gotten sick anymore. However, he hadn't ate or drank anything either. I bought him some moist food and I set some out for him. He didn't touch it... in fact wouldn't even lay by it. Before I went to bed I dropped a few in his mouth and he ate those. Also, gave his a tsp of water. I woke up this morning and checked on him. He was sick two times last night. I'm calling the vet this morning to see if I need to have him hooked up to an IV.
> 
> I must say that this has got me thinking that maybe I should get out of the dart frog hobby. I have been in the hobby for a few years, but this really concerns me. If my small dog had gotten the frog he would probably be much worse than my cat is..
> 
> Steph


If you'd like to get out of the hobby then that's obviously up to you... Personally I think that what happened to you is more of an isolated incident than something that will definitely happen again. Any recurrence could be easily avoided by simply getting a sealed glass lid so that there's no way your frogs can escape. As previously stated, it really is your call and if you have it in your mind that this may happen again then you probably won't want to keep the frogs. Do keep in mind though that what other members have stated could also be true. It could very easily be a fungal or bacterial infection that has passed on to your cat. I've seen a few tests done on humans where they intentionally introduced dart frog toxins into the bloodstream and while it looked ridiculously uncomfortable (nausea, vomiting, muscle cramping, fatigue, fever, sweats, chills, loss of coordination, diarrhea, etc) the recovery time was less than 24 hours. If the frogs do retain some toxins in captivity, I could speculate that the reduced potency and the smaller size of your cat would probably be comparable to the human reaction. I can't say for sure that it isn't mild toxicity of the frog that is ailing your cat, but I'd hate to see someone leave the hobby because of a freak accident like this. 

I hope your cat has a swift and easy recovery . Sounds like once he gets his appetite back half the battle will be over. Good luck!


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## lovnchely (Jul 17, 2007)

Vet is getting me some meds to give Stoney. He said the toxins most likely have dissolved the acids so he will need that bacteria replenished. I have to give him pill then wait for atleast 2 hours then force some water.. just a little. He thinks that this will get his past the sickness.


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## hobbyuniverse (Jun 22, 2008)

Hows your cat? My german shepard ate a toad once and was very sick for a couple days following. Her mouth wouldnt stop watering, her eyes looked heavy and she puked ALOT. My vet said it would work its way out of her system, and it didnt. I know a toad and PDF arent the same, but for what its worth my dog pulled through. 

Everytime she saw a toad after that, her head would go down and she would walk away.


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