# 18 x 18 x 24 slope bottom 'tree fall gap'



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I got some great advice about a feature of this viv recently, so I'd like to document the build in gratitude.

I had a few things I wanted to accomplish.

1) Maximize interior space overall. Our vivs are so small, I feel the need to not waste any space.
2) Install a sloped bottom, in support of (1) since a sloped bottom can be made shorter than a false bottom, but also because there have been a couple comments here asking for info on doing so.
3) Maximize floor space for lots of luscious leaf litter.
4) Make a decent enclosure for...well...

...I've said some harsh things about tincs here, and I feel like I need to make it up to the species:



Socratic Monologue said:


> I'd rather have one thumbnail than a whole bucketful of Tincs.





Socratic Monologue said:


> If I had a pair of tincs in a viv, I'd last about six months, tops, before I "need to find someone to give these the attention they deserve."


So I have five Dendrobates tinctorius 'Bakhuis' purchased and waiting on good shipping weather (Edit: one pair from that group will be selected to be housed in this viv).

That is a tinc trying its best to look like a _Ranitomeya, _anyway_:_










photo by Ruud Schouten at tinctorius.ch/index.php?id=15 (posted under fair use for educational purposes)

Next page: the build.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

So the first step was to drill a hole for the bulkhead. I used a 3/8" bulkhead I got from Amazon.

The hole -- bottom of the viv, front and center (view is from the bottom):










The viv will sit on a shelf that has a hole for the tubing to go through (a la reef tank drains); a bottom drain will not work without a pass-through under the bulkhead.

Next is inserting the bulkhead and siliconing in the sloped bottom. The vertical wall of the drainage channel is 17 1/8" x 2" x 3/16" tempered. Were I to do this again, I would have that cut 1 1/2"instead of 2" high -- it doesn't need 2" of height. Condiment cups and tape hold it while it cures. The pic doesn't show the lower bead of silicone, which I applied after the photo:










The sloped bottom is 17 1/8 x 15" x 3/16" tempered. First I cut a piece of scrap glass to support the back edge:










and then siliconed in the sloping bottom. Yes, that is a coffee-drinker's shaky-hand silicone job:





















Next, the hardscape, substrate and planting.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The hardscape design was inspired by ground level branches formed by tree fall, as mentioned here:









From habitat use to social behavior: natural history of a voiceless poison frog, Dendrobates tinctorius


Descriptive studies of natural history have always been a source of knowledge on which experimental work and scientific progress rely. Poison frogs are a well-studied group of small Neotropical frogs with diverse parental behaviors, distinct calls, and bright colors that warn predators about...




peerj.com





In the interest of maximizing usable space, I attempted to provide distinct space preferred by each of the frogs in a pair: females tend to use leaf litter and males tend toward branches and other hardscape (from the cited article).

First, I drilled the back glass to bolt on the ghostwood branches:












Then, to attach this:










I drilled the wood, threaded stainless bolts through the back glass:












And fastened it together:










Substrate is about 1/2"of ABG, and a couple inches of live oak leaves (not done with leaf litter in this photo). The hardscape does not touch the substrate, maximizing floor space:











And after the initial planting:


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Applying a slope also imparts some pleasant exertion to inhabitants, and on the way down steeper aspects exercises proprioception experiences.

Any opportunity to depart from uniformity of terrain. Enabling them to use their physicality. Letting them use their gifts.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I love how this terrarium looks. Love it.

One question: you reference ordering 5 tinctorius, they're not all for this tank right?


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

That looks great! Love the placement of the brom. I'm sure it will look even better when fully grown in! Great frog choice as well! fishingguy12345 brings up a good question though.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

fishingguy12345 said:


> I love how this terrarium looks. Love it.
> 
> One question: you reference ordering 5 tinctorius, they're not all for this tank right?


Thanks!

Oh, I forgot to mention: I ordered five that will QT in another viv (or vivs), and I will pull a pair to house in here. The other three will likely find another keeper. Thanks for making me clarify.  I edited above.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Ah. Yes that was certainly worth the work. 

Gorgeous.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

This is _really_ nice work. I've spent the last 3 days messing with a new build but I draw the line at drilling glass! 😬


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I'd still add more leaf litter  (just kidding, my friend)


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

fishingguy12345 said:


> I'd still add more leaf litter  (just kidding, my friend)


I'm thinking about it. I have dreams sometimes about one big, happy frog sitting on an automobile-sized pile of leaf litter...ahhh.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Fahad said:


> This is _really_ nice work. I've spent the last 3 days messing with a new build but I draw the line at drilling glass! 😬


Thank you. 

Drilling glass is super simple -- truly. Do consider trying it, even just on a scrap piece of glass, or some old fish tank someone is giving away. The bits are cheap, and it is quite satisfying work.


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I'm thinking about it. I have dreams sometimes about one big, happy frog sitting on an automobile-sized pile of leaf litter...ahhh.


Sounds like a happy frog


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Drilling glass is super simple -- truly. Do consider trying it, even just on a scrap piece of glass, or some old fish tank someone is giving away. The bits are cheap, and it is quite satisfying work.


I'm no stranger to tools, I think it just freaks me out because the big Exo's I've got back into the hobby with really aren't cheap. It looks like I'll be building my own 48" x 24" x 30" vivaria (somewhere near those dimensions anyway) later this year, so maybe I'll finally give it a shot then.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Fahad said:


> I'll be building my own 48" x 24" x 30" vivaria


Anyone who sincerely utters such a statement has no business being intimidated by a little drilling. You saw my miserable silicone bead -- there is no way I would try to assemble a four foot long viv.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Anyone who sincerely utters such a statement has no business being intimidated by a little drilling. You saw my miserable silicone bead -- there is no way I would try to assemble a four foot long viv.


LOL...we'll see how it turns out.


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## kennyb123 (Oct 20, 2019)

I have a couple questions for you:

1) Are you planning to keep the back and the sides uncovered? Have you found that your darts find the same level of comfort with a clear pane of glass at their back as they would a covered pane (even if it was just colored paper behind it)?

3) Did you place leaf litter directly over the sponge/foam you have over your bulkhead? I was curious if you have to put some substrate over it before placing leaf litter or if you can place it directly over the sponge itself.

I would also love to hear an update when you have some anecdotal evidence of how your frogs like the two distinct microhabitats you create with the hard scape and open areas of leaf litter!


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

This looks great and it's especially interesting to me as I've been sorely tempted to do something similar with pieces of wood in order to create better basking spots for some of my geckos. I'm grateful that you risked an exo terra for this experiment so I didn't have to! I have a few questions.
Obviously one of the advantages of what you've created here is that it can be relatively easily replaced but how long do you hope the wood will last before it decays to a point that the fixtures no longer support the weight and how confident are you in the ability of the glass to bear the load? By not having it in contact with the substrate you avoid a lot of wicking but are you worried that the wood will absorb moisture and become significantly heavier?
That looks like grapevine to me which is nice and lightweight but also absorbs much more water than something like mopani, I was stunned recently when I sawed through a piece of mopani that had been submerged in an aquarium for 6 years but was still apparently bone dry a few millimeters beneath the surface. One of the nice things about what you've done here is that you can experiment with different wood I suppose.
Did you consider and discard other options for affixing the wood? Prior to seeing this thread I had decided to try this but using 'nails' made out of silicone by drilling into the wood, filling the cavity from the drill with silicone until it's slightly overflowing and then pressing the bead against the glass walls. The siicone 'nails' seems to be sufficiently strong and apparently help to usefully spread the load.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

kennyb123 said:


> [...] Have you found that your darts find the same level of comfort with a clear pane of glass at their back as they would a covered pane (even if it was just colored paper behind it)?


I'm sure Socratic Monologue will answer the question posed to him, but I can add my experiences to this question: over the years I've probably done more tanks without backgrounds than with. I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in the behaviour of P. terribilis, D. tinctorius, D. leucomelas, O. pumilio, or D. auratus -- all species I've kept at one time or another in the past (these days I pretty much specialize in terribilis, except for the unsavoury group of leucomelas loitering in the frog room).

But they have tons of cover from overhanging wood, plants and large amounts of leaf litter, so they never have cause to feel permanently exposed to either observers or tankmates. All tanks are against a wall.

No idea how other species may act, but I'm hoping other keepers will add their input. Good question.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

kennyb123 said:


> I have a couple questions for you:
> 
> 1) Are you planning to keep the back and the sides uncovered? Have you found that your darts find the same level of comfort with a clear pane of glass at their back as they would a covered pane (even if it was just colored paper behind it)?
> 
> ...


1) The back pane has black contact paper/shelf liner on the outside, so is opaque. I'll black out the sides only if I need to -- I have done so in the past between adjacent thumbnail vivs (males bickered through the glass) but this one is between a PVC crested gecko viv and a transparent-sided _R. sirensis _viv, which I don't anticipate being a territorial issue. I haven't noticed any difference with darts (except when they can see other frogs, as I mentioned), though I am very familiar with the phenomenon with other herps. With many snakes, for example, we don't keep them in enclosures that are large enough to stake out distinct areas like we do in frog vivs; the snakes are essentially living in a hide, so they tend to need it opaque-sided. 

2) Mmm... a mystery question. I'll have to think about this one. 

3) I forgot to describe what I did in the drain channel. As you noticed, I cut a piece of aquarium foam and laid it in the channel tight. I put ABG only on the glass bottom part, so only leaf litter is on top of the foam. If it clogs or something in the future, I have a lot more foam left and can rethink it, but I think it'll be ok.

Will do on updates. I'm hoping to notice the male/female habitat preferences, though an experiment where N=2 isn't too valid.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Louis said:


> This looks great and it's especially interesting to me as I've been sorely tempted to do something similar with pieces of wood in order to create better basking spots for some of my geckos. I'm grateful that you risked an exo terra for this experiment so I didn't have to! I have a few questions.
> Obviously one of the advantages of what you've created here is that it can be relatively easily replaced but how long do you hope the wood will last before it decays to a point that the fixtures no longer support the weight and how confident are you in the ability of the glass to bear the load? By not having it in contact with the substrate you avoid a lot of wicking but are you worried that the wood will absorb moisture and become significantly heavier?
> That looks like grapevine to me which is nice and lightweight but also absorbs much more water than something like mopani, I was stunned recently when I sawed through a piece of mopani that had been submerged in an aquarium for 6 years but was still apparently bone dry a few millimeters beneath the surface. One of the nice things about what you've done here is that you can experiment with different wood I suppose.
> Did you consider and discard other options for affixing the wood? Prior to seeing this thread I had decided to try this but using 'nails' made out of silicone by drilling into the wood, filling the cavity from the drill with silicone until it's slightly overflowing and then pressing the bead against the glass walls. The siicone 'nails' seems to be sufficiently strong and apparently help to usefully spread the load.


Thanks for the complement! 

The wood is ghostwood. It is already pretty heavy (very dense, roughly like Malaysian driftwood) so shouldn't take on too much water weight, but I've not tested it over time. I should've weighed it before mounting -- I had it in my hands for the photo...five pounds, very rough estimate? So even if it rose to 50%MC, close to green wood MC for such a dense wood (assuming it is 0% now, which it isn't, of course) it would only weigh 7.5 lb. The wood is bolted through, and though there is only a nut on the inside deterioration would have to be very extensive before it got too loose to be safe (the holes were not drilled oversize). Sounds like useful life can exceed eight years according to this thread.

On the outside there is a rubber washer between the glass and a large fender washer, so weight is distributed pretty well on the glass. If a person did something like catch their sleeve on the wood and yank really hard, the glass might not hold it, but under normal use and normal sort of accidental jarring it seems strong enough -- just my intuition, though.

I considered neodymium magnets, which I use regularly in gecko vivs, frog vivs, and aquariums. I would have needed more serious magnets than I've worked with in the past (I usually use 1 1/4" x 1/8", 18 lb force), and a rubber pad to stop them from sliding, but I think this might have been a decent second choice of mount. I considered the silicone with internal dovetailed hole technique, and didn't think it would be strong enough especially since my mounting points on the wood were quite small.


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## kennyb123 (Oct 20, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Will do on updates. I'm hoping to notice the male/female habitat preferences, though an experiment where N=2 isn't too valid.


But if you have some success then other people may try as well! and before you know it your experiment has changed the way hobbyists are scaping their tanks


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Turned out really good! Now you just have to go through the long mold phase on the wood! I find that sandblasted Malaysian stuff takes awhile sometimes.

One thing that I always wonder is if that space below the sloped glass panel could be utilized better, perhaps for allowing springtail populations to thrive by leaving some small entrance gaps and filling with hydroton or something (gaps can be higher than the drain, so it never fills up with water if that is a concern). It won't wick through the glass, and can potentially keep a larger variety of biodiversity going. Maybe it doesn't matter with Tincs though - my Ranitomeya eat all my springtails, so its hard to keep up a stable population. Too late for your build now of course!

Again, looks great!

Curious how you have your nozzles setup to get a 3 in 1. Looks like a puzzle I may have to try sometime!

I was also going to ask what you are using for internal air circulation. I don't have anything active in any of my tanks, but hear you guys talk about it all the time.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Thank you for the complement!



Chris S said:


> One thing that I always wonder is if that space below the sloped glass panel could be utilized better, perhaps for allowing springtail populations to thrive by leaving some small entrance gaps and filling with hydroton or something (gaps can be higher than the drain, so it never fills up with water if that is a concern). It won't wick through the glass, and can potentially keep a larger variety of biodiversity going. Maybe it doesn't matter with Tincs though - my Ranitomeya eat all my springtails, so its hard to keep up a stable population. Too late for your build now of course!


A reasonable idea, and I considered designs that would have allowed the below-space to be part of the viv -- I considered drilling the bulkhead in the back panel, under the sloped bottom, and leaving a gap under the front dam for water to flow under. One issue is that raises the water level in the viv, making it difficult to maintain the low clearance (bottom of the Exo to bottom of the substrate) that I wanted. Another issue that I didn't mention is that overall weight was a (present, though not critical) issue -- the viv is on a shelf supported by three adjustable shelf supports that theoretically would hold 250 lb, but realistically I didn't want to push it, so I tried to exclude as much standing water as possible. Also, I keep six spring cultures going and supplement vivs as necessary, but as you mentioned tincs don't depend on springs much (they'll eat them, but not depend on them like thumb froglets do).



Chris S said:


> Curious how you have your nozzles setup to get a 3 in 1. Looks like a puzzle I may have to try sometime!


I'm not sure I could duplicate it, TBH.  Actually, I have a big box of MK parts, and futzed around until I figured out using two tees below the bulkhead fitting gives some cool options.



Chris S said:


> I was also going to ask what you are using for internal air circulation. I don't have anything active in any of my tanks, but hear you guys talk about it all the time.


No internal circulation. I do use the fans in my InSitus, but only because (1) they exist, and technology will force humans to use it every chance it gets, and (2) the InSitu's passive ventilation seems to me a little less effective than opening up the top screen on an Exo as much as I am used to (50%, much of the year on some vivs). I'm not a fan (see what I did there...) of mechanizing something that simple physics can accomplish on its own, though some viv designs might need a little mechanical help.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I'm not sure I could duplicate it, TBH.  Actually, I have a big box of MK parts, and futzed around until I figured out using two tees below the bulkhead fitting gives some cool options.


Haha, fair enough. I use pieces of other singles to extend to help reach the back of the tanks sometimes...but never tried a 3 in 1...I like it.



Socratic Monologue said:


> No internal circulation. I do use the fans in my InSitus, but only because (1) they exist, and technology will force humans to use it every chance it gets, and (2) the InSitu's passive ventilation seems to me a little less effective than opening up the top screen on an Exo as much as I am used to (50%, much of the year on some vivs). I'm not a fan (see what I did there...) of mechanizing something that simple physics can accomplish on its own, though some viv designs might need a little mechanical help.


I think I probably have less passive ventilation than you on most setups, as I find the InSitu's stay fog free with most of the vents closed and dry out pretty quickly for me, where I often need to run a fan over my ExoTerra's (albeit, I have no rear ventilation on them, only ~2.5" along the front lid). There is always a lot of talk about foot ro" and tanks being too wet, but I think this applies to more terrestrial frogs, whereas with my thumbnails they always have areas they can go to keep their feet dry (leaves/broms or far reaches of the tank) so I am typically less concerned if the substrate is a bit damper than I would like. Gives me more time to correct it.

I've gotta say though...this looks like a great little setup for more thumbnails...this sounds like a step to the dark side here!!

I've used the bolt method a few times back in the day in setting up some ripariums for customers. As long as you overengineered it (ie. the weight of the wood has little to no impact on the bolts) and used rubber gaskets, you should be ok for many years! On some larger ones, we would actually insert a rubber o-ring between the gaskets so that the bolt never put any direct weight on the glass. If you aren't too far along yet, you may want to consider that for an extra precaution. It can help if you accidently give it a bump as well.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I ordered five that will QT in another viv (or vivs), and I will pull a pair to house in here. The other three will likely find another keeper.


This is the way. 

Also, I love the wood work here.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Chris S said:


> On some larger ones, we would actually insert a rubber o-ring between the gaskets so that the bolt never put any direct weight on the glass.


Ack, I forgot to mention I did do that on one hole. The bolts are used were two different sizes, and the bit I chose for the larger of the two had more play than I liked, and so I put an o-ring in that snugged in perfectly. Actually, if I hadn't bought an assortment box of o-rings for the project (I bought bulkheads from Amazon, which didn't include o-rings, so I bought a couple hundred assorted, and now they want to be used), I wouldn't have thought of it. Do it again, I might try to do this on all bolts through glass.


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## Bunsincunsin (Feb 11, 2008)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I had a few things I wanted to accomplish.
> 
> 1) Maximize interior space overall. Our vivs are so small, I feel the need to not waste any space.
> 2) Install a sloped bottom, in support of (1) since a sloped bottom can be made shorter than a false bottom, but also because there have been a couple comments here asking for info on doing so.
> 3) Maximize floor space for lots of luscious leaf litter.


Can you explain, specifically, what it is about the design of a sloped-bottom that allows it to be made “shorter” than a false-bottom setup?

I will echo the remarks regarding the chosen design for the sloped-bottom that involves completely sealing off the space directly below it, effectively rendering that space useless as a refugium for microfauna or as additional surface area for biofilms, root growth, etc. Additionally, it would seem that sealing the space off would go against the initial reasoning of your first objective.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Bunsincunsin said:


> I will echo the remarks regarding the chosen design for the sloped-bottom that involves completely sealing off the space directly below it, effectively rendering that space useless as a refugium for microfauna or as additional surface area for biofilms, root growth, etc. Additionally, it would seem that sealing the space off would go against the initial reasoning of your first objective.


Not to quote him out of context, but I believe the use of internal space was referring to usable space for the inhabitants. In that scenario, it wouldn't matter it has a sealed bottom or a more typical false bottom.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Yes, by 'internal space' I meant overall volume of the area that the frogs inhabit. 

The sloped bottom was not the only way in which I tried to maximize space -- I also severely reduced the amount of ABG, which was possible because there won't be any plants growing in it, and because the species to be housed in these doesn't depend on microfauna for food (I wouldn't do this with facultative _Ranitomeya_, for example), and I replenish microfauna in all my dart vivs anyway. I also didn't install a background, which often take up a lot of space, but I don't install backgrounds anyway so it wasn't a distinct design choice here. There are also no solid hardscape elements (larger rocks, cypress knees, solid cork logs, etc). The ghostwood structure was designed ('designed'; I just picked the best pieces out of my bin) to maximize as much as I could the amount of free space that has walkable surfaces poking through it.

Although I didn't do as well with this as is possible (as I mentioned when I said that next time I'd make the front dam 1 1/2" high instead of 2", and I'd consider a 1" dam if I can get someone to cut that), the way in which a sloped bottom can use less space ('be shorter') is that a false bottom arrangement is typically higher than it needs to be because it sometimes uses some product that wicks to some degree and the depth of that product is increased to avoid that becoming a problem. The height of the false bottom design must be increased even more in vivs that aren't drilled, since the false bottom acts as a reservoir that must have a capacity greater than will be filled between drainings.

Part of the issue with the height of the drainage area of any design is that typically vivs are back-drilled, leaving standing water (and though I disagree with the arguments that claim this to be a benefit worth pursuing, I do understand that they exist and that some people desire that standing water), and I've bottom drilled this one, which could be done in a false bottom design. But even in a slope-bottom design that is back-drilled (as InSitus are, which is essentially the model I used for this design), the small amount of water that remains in the front gutter is a far less important source of wicking than in a false-bottom design, since the relative area of substrate open to wicking is minimal (and can be further minimized, as I did here by placing only leaf litter over the front gutter area).

Because all that is a little convoluted, here is a summary: the combination of bottom-drilling and the reduction in wicking potential at the front gutter is what makes the lowered height practical.

This might be seen as splitting hairs in terms of space, but each vertical inch of a viv with an 18 x 18 footprint is 1.3 gallons, which is not insubstantial, but this was a 'splitting hairs' sort of project anyway, which by intent pretty much ignored the idea of diminishing returns in a lot of respects.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Fahad said:


> the unsavoury group of leucomelas loitering in the frog room


are the most respectable frogs in your collection. I mean, when compared to all those other thugs...

Mark


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> are the most respectable frogs in your collection. I mean, when compared to all those other thugs...
> 
> Mark


You have a point ... I have yet to be attacked by the leucs. (Actually been bitten twice by terribilis).


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Fahad said:


> Actually been bitten twice by terribilis


I was just letting all this nonsense about the attraction to big, beefy, boring frogs go by, but now you have my attention. That is truly wild.

Excessive feeding response, or something else?


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

There's a whole world of > 2 gram frogs out there. Try it, you might like it ;-)

Mark


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> *I was just letting all this nonsense about the attraction to big, beefy, boring frogs* go by, but now you have my attention. That is truly wild.
> 
> Excessive feeding response, or something else?


I'm gonna let that first part go. 

All three groups (Yellow, Mint, Blackfoot Orange) will lunge at the feeding container because they can see the bugs and don't want to wait ... they're also used to lunging upwards to knock bugs off leaves over their heads -- that probably began as a misguided attack on silhouettes but looks pretty strategic now*. But ... I have one _big_ female Mint that's exceptionally aggro:

She'll lunge and (literally) tongue-lash a tankmate right in the face for grabbing a bug before she does, a couple of times until they back off, and when I work in the tank has been known to attack my hands -- she's bit me twice.

I was lucky to escape. 😬

I'm raising some of her kids now and they appear to be cut from the same cloth, judging by their feeding response. 

*I try to be careful not to project too much on to the frogs, but I've seen terribilis track moving prey 32 inches over their head, leap to a halfway point without losing it, and immediately jump straight vertical to snatch it. When they're lean and hungry, they appear to be resourceful and tenacious.

To be honest, they're much more than I expected, in spite of being a fan in the first place.


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

Yeah, my adult terribs are crazy when feeding time hits. I've been bitten as well. My babies are pretty boring though.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Kribensis said:


> Yeah, my adult terribs are crazy when feeding time hits. I've been bitten as well. My babies are pretty boring though.


I have some babies that learn very early who's bringing them food. Others remain skittish until they're bigger.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> There's a whole world of > 2 gram frogs out there. Try it, you might like it ;-)
> 
> Mark


I *am *-- I'm getting tincs* for this viv, you should be proud of me. Also, I have Fine Spot* leucs.

*smallest available locales


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Atta boy. None of those, however, will make you add checking their latch on your way to bed to make sure they don't stab you in your sleep. I kid, Terribs, I kid.

Mark


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## Frogmanjared (Jul 17, 2020)

Tincs?!?!? 

My hunchbacks are still cute tadpoles


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Frogmanjared said:


> Tincs?!?!?


I had a moment of weakness...


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

Fahad said:


> This is _really_ nice work. I've spent the last 3 days messing with a new build but I draw the line at drilling glass! 😬


Ah, then you're really missing out. Seriously. It is child's play, there is NOTHING to be afraid of. I keep pushing the envelope (little by little, and there's a point I won't cross) in terms of proximity to edge, drill speed, bearing down, etc and I have yet to crack a pane. I continue to be impressed with how much I can get away with, relative to my first half-dozen drill jobs and how mousy I was in getting after it. If you are careful, it is *really quite unlikely* you will break anything.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I broke one aquarium while drilling quite a few years ago. Then I learned that there is an easier way to tell whether glass is tempered, and haven't had any drilling problems since. 

I agree that it is easier than much of what we do here. Way easier than applying spray foam, for instance.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I'm not a fan (see what I did there...) of mechanizing something that simple physics can accomplish on its own, though some viv designs might need a little mechanical help.


Love the pun, yeah I see it. Ha ha ha.

Anyway I agree with this 100%. Physics working for you, without electricity? Priceless.


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## Croakeycroakyson (6 mo ago)

How has the sloping floor held up? Have there been any issues with the foam in the drainage trough clogging up over time? Also do you see any need for a drainage layer between the glass floor and the ABG now having had the tank setup for a while, how has that part held up?
Cheers
Andy


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The sloping bottom seems to be working well. No clogging of the foam that I can see.

No, I don't see a need for a drainage layer under the ABG. I run similar substrate designs in my InSitus (which are also sloped bottom -- that's where I got the idea for this build) -- two with calcium clay over a thin layer of Flourite (like Turface), one with calcium clay mixed with LECA, one with just ABG. These each seem to function fine.

The tinc pair seems to be pretty happy in there. I finally have froglets morphing, and they look good.

And though no one asked, I still like the bottom drain.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

We require update pictures. Like, seriously...


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## Croakeycroakyson (6 mo ago)

Socratic Monologue said:


> The sloping bottom seems to be working well. No clogging of the foam that I can see.
> 
> No, I don't see a need for a drainage layer under the ABG. I run similar substrate designs in my InSitus (which are also sloped bottom -- that's where I got the idea for this build) -- two with calcium clay over a thin layer of Flourite (like Turface), one with calcium clay mixed with LECA, one with just ABG. These each seem to function fine.
> 
> ...


Awesome, thanks for getting back quickly. As always I might add.


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