# fans for orchids?



## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

I'm trying to figure out what to do about ventilation/air circulation for this tank.
I originally wanted a sealed tank with a fan running 24/7, but I hear the frogs will need ventilation for cooling, so I'm kind of stuck now.

What I want planted:
-Fern moss on wood (unless there's another type of moss easier to grow)
-Neoregelia's
-Small peperomia dangling from ends of wood
-Any kind of orchids that will survive in this set up
-Maybe dwarf baby tears on right side if I can get it growing (sink false bottom into stagnant water?)

Fan in fake tree trunk blowing along back pane of glass idea:









I was thinking of taking off the plastic rims aswell, since there won't be any water pressure.
Should I put the vent in the back, with the fan blowing on the front glass, or keep the vent in the front, and have the fan blow in the back? 









I guess the big question is, are there orchids that will bloom with just the screen vent for air movement? Maybe I can leave the fan out of the equation...


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## Ray (May 12, 2009)

Air movement has nothing to do with getting orchids to bloom. It is advised to slow/prevent mold and fungus issues that can be associated with stagnant, wet conditions.

Seems to me that a small fan, positioned outside of the tank on your vent screen, blowing upward, would draw plenty of air though the vent into the tank, providing all the ventilation and air movement needed.

I have an orchid tank in my family room, and it has no active ventilation whatsoever, but there is a 1" gap in the cover, and vent holes in the homemade light fixture, holding two of my LEDs. The small amount of heat generated by the LED drivers causes convection that draws air in through that slot - DONE..


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Ray said:


> Air movement has nothing to do with getting orchids to bloom. It is advised to slow/prevent mold and fungus issues that can be associated with stagnant, wet conditions.
> 
> Seems to me that a small fan, positioned outside of the tank on your vent screen, blowing upward, would draw plenty of air though the vent into the tank, providing all the ventilation and air movement needed.
> 
> I have an orchid tank in my family room, and it has no active ventilation whatsoever, but there is a 1" gap in the cover, and vent holes in the homemade light fixture, holding two of my LEDs. The small amount of heat generated by the LED drivers causes convection that draws air in through that slot - DONE..


So basically I'd have the fan sucking air out of the tank for a few minutes every hour or so? That seems easy enough.
I just don't want to finish the tank only to regret not building a fan housing inside of it.


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## Ray (May 12, 2009)

I don't know anything about raising frogs, but I'd let the fan run 24/7


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

Totally off-subject here, but what in the hell is going on in your avatar wriggles?!? haha


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Ray said:


> I don't know anything about raising frogs, but I'd let the fan run 24/7


That would have to be a really weak fan to not dry out the tank then =O


Hayden said:


> Totally off-subject here, but what in the hell is going on in your avatar wriggles?!? haha


This ol' thing?








It's just a lovely lady straddling a papercraft viking pirate rainbow wizzard american green tree frog on a stick =)
I made it for my brother as a joke and it kinda grew on me lol


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## KenP (May 6, 2014)

I am not a current frog guy but had them in the past. Orchids, I use two 120mm variable speed computer fans 24/7 at 2/3 speed. Never really heard of too much aeration. Humidity is an issue. Well lack of humidity. I mist twice a day. My orchids are mounted. The tank is an open top. Hard to over water. Delicate balancing act.
Your setup with a water feature, adding one or two 80mm fans 24/7, daily misting and adjust vented opening to maintain proper humidity. Get a decent adjustable hygrometer, cigar smokers type, $10-$15. Seams like a plan.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

KenP said:


> I am not a current frog guy but had them in the past. Orchids, I use two 120mm variable speed computer fans 24/7 at 2/3 speed. Never really heard of too much aeration. Humidity is an issue. Well lack of humidity. I mist twice a day. My orchids are mounted. The tank is an open top. Hard to over water. Delicate balancing act.
> Your setup with a water feature, adding one or two 80mm fans 24/7, daily misting and adjust vented opening to maintain proper humidity. Get a decent adjustable hygrometer, cigar smokers type, $10-$15. Seams like a plan.


I don't have a water feature, but I do have a humidifier to turn on throughout the day. I tested the fan with the humidifier and the fan blew all the fog out of the tank through the vent instantly =( I'd basically be humidifying my room rather than the tank.
Maybe I can keep the fan on a timer so it shuts off while the fog dissipates on it's own, then turn it back on?

Thanks for the help so far everyone, I'm new to these kind of plants so I don't want to mess up!


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## L8apex (May 2, 2014)

I think you're definitely going to want the fan if you're growing orchids, at least small ones. Not pulling fresh air into your tank from outside your vents but moving it within the tank. I've never had issues with mold etc without circulation but i wasn't getting small orchids to thrive. A design that pulls air from the bottom and blows it near the top seems to work well for me. And the time on will depend on all the variables in your setup, but short periods throughout the daylight period are plenty for most setups. Of course I'm worried about the frogs first, plants second.

Just realized who was answering your question above, if orchid specialists say it's not necessary then I guess it's not. I think all my plants do better with, although i wish they didn't so I didn't have to figure out how to put fans in all my vivs now! I'd just be careful drawing fresh air into the tank with a fan, but maybe that's because my average ambient humidity is about 6%!


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## KenP (May 6, 2014)

Wriggles I guess I misunderstood your first post. The picture of the tank had rings and you mentioned false bottom and water so I thought you had a water feature. Standing water and maybe a little waterfall with fans will keep the humidity higher. While Ray said his home orchid tank has no active ventilation he also said ventilation is useful and let the fan run 24/7. I like your idea of turning the fan off until the fog dissipates. I was looking into fogging to increase humidity. Keep the updates coming.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

wriggles said:


> It's just a lovely lady straddling a papercraft viking pirate rainbow wizzard american green tree frog on a stick =)
> I made it for my brother as a joke and it kinda grew on me lol


I mean, OBVIOUSLY. What _else _would it be? lol


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## Ray (May 12, 2009)

wriggles said:


> That would have to be a really weak fan to not dry out the tank then


Well you sure don't want a powerful fan!

The idea is to prevent stagnation, and to refresh the air. If your setup is dried out doing that, you've got bigger issues than air movement. 


Ray Barkalow (via Tapatalk)


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

Most orchids need to go from soaking wet to dry. The best way to do it is with 1 or 2 small fans. For my 90 gallon display tank I have 2 small screened holes in the top. One hole has a fan blowing over it. That ventilates the tank and is great for the orchids. I mist often. When I really want to soak the plants I turn the fan off for about half a day.


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## jebb (Dec 21, 2013)

I regulate my orchid tank fan, which has blooms regularly, with the lights, my small fan I got from Hydrophyte, turns on and off with the light timer. I use a misting system 30 seconds every 4 or 5 hours. I have moss and plant growth. The fan lays flat on the 6"vent at the top, and points down into the tank. my tank is 24 tall,18x18
the fan is on a dimmer so I can turn it up or down to my discretion.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

jebb said:


> I regulate my orchid tank fan, which has blooms regularly, with the lights, my small fan I got from Hydrophyte, turns on and off with the light timer. I use a misting system 30 seconds every 4 or 5 hours. I have moss and plant growth. The fan lays flat on the 6"vent at the top, and points down into the tank. my tank is 24 tall,18x18
> the fan is on a dimmer so I can turn it up or down to my discretion.


Show pictures please if you have them. I'd like to see them.


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## Ray (May 12, 2009)

Michael Shrom said:


> Most orchids need to go from soaking wet to dry.


I'm sorry, but that's just plain incorrect.

In fact, most epiphytic orchids go through long (if not constant) periods of total saturation, and yet, despite the "lore" that they need to dry, they thrive.

The basis of the "need to dry" between waterings is based upon crappy potting media, and has nothing to do with the plant.

Unlike terrestrial plants, orchid have evolved to do most of their transpirational gas exchange (breathing) through their roots, rather than the leaves - it's an adaptation intended to reduce water loss. If you have a crappy potting medium, it will become saturated and cut off all air flow to the roots, causing them to suffocate and die. Let that crappy medium dry out in between waterings, and those airflow pathways to the roots open up again, and they can "breathe", and support the plant.

I've been growing orchids for over 40 years, and developed the growing technique called "semi-hydroponics" over 20 years ago, and I have some plants that have stayed wet for that entire time.

I did a study once, in which I exposed 150 Oncidium Sharry Baby plants and 150 Phalaenopsis Lemforde White Beauty plants to my normal watering schedule of 2- or 3 x per week, and an equivalent set of plants to daily watering. At the end of 6 months, the "daily" group was significantly bigger.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

L8apex said:


> IA design that pulls air from the bottom and blows it near the top seems to work well for me. I'd just be careful drawing fresh air into the tank with a fan, but maybe that's because my average ambient humidity is about 6%!


I was hoping to get that effect with the fake tree trunk idea, sucking humid air from the bottom and circulating it upwards.
Our house gets super super dry during the winter! The plant in my tree frog tank went bone dry in 1 night last year  The leaves turned into potato chips.


KenP said:


> Wriggles I guess I misunderstood your first post. The picture of the tank had rings and you mentioned false bottom and water so I thought you had a water feature.I like your idea of turning the fan off until the fog dissipates. I was looking into fogging to increase humidity. Keep the updates coming.


The false bottom is 1", the water will probably be 1/2", not quite enough for a water pump unfortunately. What I meant in the first post was to slope the false bottom down into the stagnant water, so the dwarf baby tears had that 1/2" of water to soak in. I don't know anything about planting in stagnant water though, seems like a recipe for algae growth.







(using aquatic substrate)
I already got my humidifier rigged a while ago so I'll definitely be testing it =) 


Ray said:


> Well you sure don't want a powerful fan!
> The idea is to prevent stagnation, and to refresh the air. If your setup is dried out doing that, you've got bigger issues than air movement.


Hopefully hand misting will keep it humid enough, I can't afford a mist king right now :'(


jebb said:


> I use a misting system 30 seconds every 4 or 5 hours.


This will probably be my downfall, I didn't add a misting system into the budget nor do I have room for the water reservoir 

I'm going to try and sketch all my fan options-
Fake tree stump housing in back corner idea:








External fan in one corner idea?








I might want the vent in the back actually, not sure about the lid situation.

I just got the LED in the mail, somehow I need to be able to water my plants with this thing setting on top 
They actually sent me the wrong LED haha. I ordered a 38 watt fixture and got a 65 watt fixture O_O 
Will this be too much for the plants if I don't raise it higher? (16" tall tank) it's 5900 lumens.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

I pretty much finished and got the neos in there a few days ago. I went with Rays idea of putting the fan on top of the vent (thanks ray )
Testing the waters with my neos before i put anything delicate in there.


















That's a 3 foot wall of hygrolon wicking water from the false bottom in the back. The tank was reading 91% humidity without any plants in there  I have a 1" vent across the entire top front. (that's 1" screen, not including aluminum frame). With the fan running on it's lowest setting the humidity was jumping between 73% and 78% mid tank, I don't know what was up with the gauge.

It takes maybe half a day for the water droplets to evaporate off the neo leaves, which is probably not good. Also any sphagnum I put on the ghost wood is bone dry by the end of the day. I think the wood is sucking the moisture out of it... So planting orchids/moss on the wood doesn't seem possible with this setup =(
I have a humidifier running 8 times a day for 7 minutes each, just long enough to fill the tank. It doesn't help the moss on the wood much.

How do I keep the sphagnum moist on the ghost wood without spraying the tank down 5 times a day/night?


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Looking good! 

Over time the wood will saturate with water and stop wicking it out of the moss. After the tank settles in, you should have no problem growing moss and orchids on the wood 

John


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

FroggyKnight said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Over time the wood will saturate with water and stop wicking it out of the moss. After the tank settles in, you should have no problem growing moss and orchids on the wood
> 
> John


Thanks =)
Wow I didn't even think about breaking the wood in first, I should have soaked it before hand =O 
Actually now that you mention it, I read of someone sealing their tank for a couple months to help speed up this process and get the moss going. Think that'll help or will I rot my neos by then?


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

That wouldn't be worth doing IMO. I have rotted out way too many broms due to air flow problems and I wouldn't chance it in your case. The wood will absorb water eventually in your current conditions and all will be good after that.



John



Sent from my using Tapatalk


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

FroggyKnight said:


> That wouldn't be worth doing IMO. I have rotted out way too many broms due to air flow problems and I wouldn't chance it in your case. The wood will absorb water eventually in your current conditions and all will be good after that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alright I'll wait it out then, thanks again =)


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

FroggyKnight said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Over time the wood will saturate with water and stop wicking it out of the moss. After the tank settles in, you should have no problem growing moss and orchids on the wood
> 
> John


The wood became water logged after about a month and the moss slurry seems to be taking off =)
The only thing growing in the moss mix on the hygrolon is that single tiny fern you can see in the back lol. Every speck of moss mix that fell on the leaf litter however, is growing tons of moss!


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

I could use some input if you guys got a moment. 
The leaf litter introduced these white spider-like mites that are eating my p.prostrata and are crawling all over the bromeliads, should I ignore them?

















Also the moss gave up on me, it was doing fine at first then just stopped trying...
All the moss on the right side of the tank seems fine though, that's the side where the fan is, so maybe that has something to do with it?
I've been watering twice a day, the humidifier goes off twice a day in-between waterings for 12 minutes each.
Should I figure out a way to get the fan inside the tank and increase the fogging?
Also the bromeliads are getting a bit yellow and the leafs are sort of buckling.
The p.prostrata is doing great though! Super easy plant to grow in here =)


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