# Eggs starting going bad



## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

Hello All-
I have be wondering and looking for answers or opinions.
My Leucs finally starting laying eggs and the first 3 clutches all went great, each had five eggs and only lost 3 eggs. The three that didn’t make it, all went “gray”.

I had the last 3 clutches all go gray, they are had 5 eggs, but not one egg developed. 

I’m trying to understand what is going on. The care and the environment for them haven’t changed.
I’m re-using the petri dishes after the eggs hatch; I don’t believe this would be a problem. Is it?

Jim


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Are you using methylene blue in the solution surrounding the egg mass in the petri dish? Reusing petri dishes probably isn't the problem, assuming you washed them. Also proper supplementation of the breeding frogs is extremely important for egg development.


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## ConFuCiuZ (Jul 13, 2011)

Im assuming they are suppose to turn gray and not remain white. If they remain white and fuzzy then they are bad. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/13183-egg-care-sheet.html


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

I have not been using methylene blue, but rather Indian Almond leaves and tap water. I let them sit together for about a week and use that with the eggs. I just add enough of this to just come to the top of the eggs. I also use this “mixture” to wash the eggs and the petri dish.
I have been dusting the FF’s with a mixture of Rep-Cal multivitamin and calcium each time I feed. Is this enough?


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

ConFuCiuZ said:


> Im assuming they are suppose to turn gray and not remain white. If they remain white and fuzzy then they are bad.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/13183-egg-care-sheet.html


Yep, they go gray and then white & puffy.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

salth2oj said:


> I have not been using methylene blue, but rather Indian Almond leaves and tap water. I let them sit together for about a week and use that with the eggs. I just add enough of this to just come to the top of the eggs. I also use this “mixture” to wash the eggs and the petri dish.
> I have been dusting the FF’s with a mixture of Rep-Cal multivitamin and calcium each time I feed. Is this enough?


Most breeders we've worked with (us included) use the tadpole tea after they've hatched, but not before. For egg development, we had the most luck using a solution of 1-drop of methylene blue per gallon of R/O water to surround (not submerge) the eggs in a petri dish. Then once the eggs develop & hatch, we use the tadpole tea in a 16oz deli cup as normal. 

Our tadpole tea solution was a splash of the above mentioned methelyene blue solution + half of an indian almond leaf + moss + R/O Water per 16oz cup. We incubated all developing eggs and tadpoles @ 76-77F.

We noticed almost all instances of SLS disappear, and a much higher development success rate when we switched from Rep-Cal to Repashy Calcium Plus. That might not be a bad idea in the future. 

(A bunch of this info is on our caresheets)  

Edit: Sorry for all the past tense wording. We stopped breeding darts in 2010, but are getting back into it thanks to new CT legislation.

Edit again: We always sanitized the petri dishes between clutches to prevent cross-contamination among other issues... That's probably a good thing to consider. 10% bleach solution over a few minutes should do it safely.


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

MeiKVR6 said:


> Most breeders we've worked with (us included) use the tadpole tea after they've hatched, but not before. For egg development, we had the most luck using a solution of 1-drop of methylene blue per gallon of R/O water to surround (not submerge) the eggs in a petri dish. Then once the eggs develop & hatch, we use the tadpole tea in a 16oz deli cup as normal.
> 
> Our tadpole tea solution was a splash of the above mentioned methelyene blue solution + half of an indian almond leaf + moss + R/O Water per 16oz cup. We incubated all developing eggs and tadpoles @ 76-77F.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great information and the links. I do have a few follow up questions.

The methylene blue, that is the same as you would find in the aquarium (fish) store?
I found a few places on-line that carry Repashy Calcium Plus, but the shipping charges makes it a little cost prohibited. Is this sold in the local “chain stores”? If not I will have to wait for the reptile show.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The role that antifungal solutions play in egg development is probably in no small part due to the nutritional deficiencies in the adult frogs. The nutritional deficiencies result in embryos that are unable to develop properly and/or unable to resist infections as well. Thus the use of things like methylene blue or tannin solutions with the eggs as a method to try and get better hatching rates.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

salth2oj said:


> Thanks for the great information and the links. I do have a few follow up questions.
> 
> The methylene blue, that is the same as you would find in the aquarium (fish) store?
> I found a few places on-line that carry Repashy Calcium Plus, but the shipping charges makes it a little cost prohibited. Is this sold in the local “chain stores”? If not I will have to wait for the reptile show.


It's the same stuff for fish.  To be clear, I 100% agree with Ed's post. The chemical is a fix, but it's really about proper supplementation first & foremost. (I re-read my 1'st post and I should have been a little more clear!)

As for where to get it, like you said most fish stores will have it. So will the sponsors on Dendroboard. (Most sponsors offer free or cheap shipping, too) :cough cough:


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

As for where to get it, like you said most fish stores will have it. So will the sponsors on Dendroboard. (Most sponsors offer free or cheap shipping, too) :cough cough: [/QUOTE]

I fully understand the need to pass along the shipping cost to the consumer, i also found that most sites are reasonable and some are very reasonable. The problem comes in when you are just making one small purchase.
I will start calling around and see if i can locate it near by, but with the tax rate on Long Island i might be better ordering on-line.

Does anyone know of a store on Long Island that carries Rapashy Products?


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

Ed said:


> The role that antifungal solutions play in egg development is probably in no small part due to the nutritional deficiencies in the adult frogs. The nutritional deficiencies result in embryos that are unable to develop properly and/or unable to resist infections as well. Thus the use of things like methylene blue or tannin solutions with the eggs as a method to try and get better hatching rates.



Ed, never gave that a thought. This does make a good amount of sense, thanks.


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## rgwheels (Feb 19, 2008)

Ed, what do clutch success rates look like in wild frogs? Does using antifungal agents potentially hinder a frogs immune development from growing more resilient to environmental pathogens? 



Ed said:


> The role that antifungal solutions play in egg development is probably in no small part due to the nutritional deficiencies in the adult frogs. The nutritional deficiencies result in embryos that are unable to develop properly and/or unable to resist infections as well. Thus the use of things like methylene blue or tannin solutions with the eggs as a method to try and get better hatching rates.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

rgwheels said:


> Ed, what do clutch success rates look like in wild frogs? Does using antifungal agents potentially hinder a frogs immune development from growing more resilient to environmental pathogens?


I don't think I've seen hard data on clutch success in dendrobatids. In other species and genera, there are a lot of enviromental factors come into play. I'm not sure that this isn't an apples and oranges comparision since in situ species do not produce or breed or produce eggs at the quantity that we see in the captive animals. 

With respect to the immune response, enabling the tadpole to survive to hatching through the use of antifungals doesn't hinder the immune system but you should keep in mind that deficiencies of vitamins like vitamin A, do compromise the immune system of the tadpole (and potentially further along to the froglet stage)..... 


Some comments

Ed


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## thong_monster (May 6, 2006)

salth2oj said:


> As for where to get it, like you said most fish stores will have it. So will the sponsors on Dendroboard. (Most sponsors offer free or cheap shipping, too) :cough cough:
> 
> I fully understand the need to pass along the shipping cost to the consumer, i also found that most sites are reasonable and some are very reasonable. The problem comes in when you are just making one small purchase.
> I will start calling around and see if i can locate it near by, but with the tax rate on Long Island i might be better ordering on-line.
> ...


You can try,

Repxotica
19 Udall Road
West Islip, NY
(631) 482-9500

Or in Manhattan,

Fauna
265 W 87th St # 1 
New York, NY 10024
(212) 877-2473

I believe they both carry Rapashy.


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

thong_monster said:


> You can try,
> 
> Repxotica
> 19 Udall Road
> ...


Yep and thanks. I just returned from Repxotica with supplies in hand.
Now to see if this helps with my eggs issues.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Don't expect improvement right away. It usually takes at least a month to get the nutritional levels back up some (if you have the straight vitamin A, and use it once a month, it can get straightened out much more quickly). 

Ed


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

Ed said:


> Don't expect improvement right away. It usually takes at least a month to get the nutritional levels back up some (if you have the straight vitamin A, and use it once a month, it can get straightened out much more quickly).
> 
> Ed


If I only knew that a little earlier.....I guess I will need to take another ride.

Silly question, when dusting the FF do you “re-use" the left over powder or start with fresh with the next batch?


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

You should always use fresh supplement powder.


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## salth2oj (Sep 3, 2005)

Dev30ils said:


> You should always use fresh supplement powder.


I hope now to be on the right track, thanks to all for the information and i will keep you updated on my progress.


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