# Reusing FF Culture Containers



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I don't browse this forum very often and not sure if this topic was posted before but I was wondering with all of the green idealogy that goes hand in hand with this hobby how many of us reuse their FF culturing containers. In another post I saw several people mention they wash and reuse their large deli containers several times whereas I have used the same mason jars for years. As many FF cultures most of us need that's a lot of throw aways for those using 1 container per culture. I was also thinking if more knew of using the 1 quart wide mouth mason jars it may cut down on their expense of culturing FF's. To clean the jars I simply let mine sit filled with water for a couple of days after they peter out, then rinse thorughly and wipe them out with a rag while rinsing.
This allows me to break even on my footprint since i have to use spring water for all aspects of my frogs but at least I recycle the plastic gallon jugs.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

A mason jar is a really good idea... 

What do you use for the breathable top?

I reuse my plastic containers - and am very careful not to crack them.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I power rinse all my plastic culture containers and lids.

Power sink sprayer with very hot water. My hands never have to touch the crud...it all disolves away and into the sink / garbage disposal.

I have some plastic culture containers used many times and over 3 1/2 years old.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I use mine till they get a crack in them. I'm still using some of the original ones I bought from 3 years ago.


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## Faceless (Sep 11, 2008)

If i have the heavy duty ones like Ed's Sells
i would reuse them, but the thinner flimsier 
ones i'm not so sure how they would hold up..

The Mason Jar idea sounds kinda cool...
i might have to look into that


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Faceless said:


> but the thinner flimsier
> ones i'm not so sure how they would hold up..


They hold up fine to hand washing with the sprayer in the sink and rarely crack unless you are rough with them.

I have been re-using the "flimsy" culture containers for over 3 years....

no problemas.


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## Rick H. (Feb 22, 2007)

I use quart mason jars (Kerr brand, actually). When a culture is finished I rinse out gunk and then run them through the dishwasher.

As for breathable lids, they sell plastic caps for the narrow-mouth jars that are used for sealing the jars after opening one that has been processed (they are not for processing) in the canning section of the store. I drill 5 holes in the top (1/4"), fold a paper towel in half, put it over the jar, and then screw the cap on. They make perfect, breathable tops. I run these through the dishwasher with the jars to get them clean.

These lids are also invaluable when I go on vacation; I just make as many cultures as I have tanks two weeks before leaving, and then the day I leave I take off the paper towel, put the cap back on, and put the jar in the tank. The flies can crawl out through the holes but the frogs can't get in. I have left the frogs for a week like this and they are all fat upon my return.

I am glad to see so many others reusing the jars!

Rick


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I re-use my plastic ones unless what is in there is so foul that I can't stand the smell or sight of it. If the cup isn't that bad, I soak it hot soapy water and use the sink sprayer. The mason jars, get the same hot water soak and then they go in the dishwasher. As for lids to the mason jars, I was using a coffee filter but I think I am going to try the paper towel method and hope to get better air flow. Does anyone notice a slower production with the mason jars or is it just my imagination?


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## holidayhanson (Apr 25, 2007)

I also wash out my plastic containers and reuse them and have been for over a year and a half...and expect to wash and reuse them until they crack. I compost my ff medium and coffee filters, rinse out the remaining pupae castings, and put them into the dish washer for a hot sanitary cycle.

Sometimes I question the "greeness" of this hobby. With all the lights we burn 12hrs a day year round, heaters, pumps, foggers, we certainly consume more energy than the average household. How many bulbs do we use annually that contain mercury? Also building materials....the cork bark, tree fern, and spagnum and peat moss....are all raped from some place on earth. Also, if there is a demand for WC frogs in america.....there are people in the jungles somewhere collecting frogs because they know americans will pay good money for them. 

I am glad people reuse their plastic ff contianers until they are unusable....hopefully everyone does this and nobody uses them one time and toss them out. 

Any suggestions on being a "greener" frogger are welcome!


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

As for the mason jars, they come with a screw cap lid, throw away the inner metal tin and then screw on 2 coffee filters (oops just broke my own greening attempt), anybody got any ideas for used coffee filters, as i use new ones for each culture? I put coffee filters from my coffee maker thorough the garbage disposal but not from the FF cultures, suggestions anyone?
mark


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## holidayhanson (Apr 25, 2007)

You can compost all organic material (just no meats).....Everything you put into your garbage disposal can be composted. Composting is a great way to make a better garden and reduce your impact on the landfill.


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## karl47 (Sep 3, 2008)

holidayhanson said:


> You can compost all organic material (just no meats).....Everything you put into your garbage disposal can be composted. Composting is a great way to make a better garden and reduce your impact on the landfill.


Eric,
That's so true. I've been composting kitchen scraps, leaves and lawn clippings for over 20 years and save a lot of money on fertilizers and other garden/lawn ammendments that most people buy. I also use the thoroughy decomposed residue at the bottom of my leaf pile in my substrate mix for my 7 vivs and the plants love it. Ofcourse I nuke it for 15-20 minutes to kill whatever critters and bacteria might be lurking in it before use.
Karl


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

unbelievable.....5 people actually voted that they use their culture containers one time and throw them away or recycle them!??

wow....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I have the same culture containers that I've had for over 4 years (the plastic ones). If one cracks it goes into the recycle bin. 

Ed


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I've not had the best success with reusing containers in the past. I have a really hard time getting the **** out well enough to use them again. I live in an apartment and don't have a sprayer to work with. I'd love some ideas on cleaning them out. I've tried soaking and scrubbing and such and it just doesn't come clean.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Tim,

My sprayer is the generic one that comes with any sink and my water pressure is quite normal and water heat is hot but not scalding...

I don't even have to touch the used culture media at all! The sprayer and hot water clean it all off the plastic in a jiffy and down the drain it goes.

I don't note any bad smell or anything else associated with the sink method either.....very easy.

I would think with a little hand sponge or sink pad, you could duplicate that.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm in an apt so my sink has no sprayer. I've tried the sink pads and stuff and they just don't do a good job and they tend to smell pretty bad after being reused for the next culture. Are you using excelsior or coffee filters in the cultures? I'm using excelsior which doesn't seem safe to put down the disposal.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I fill my jars with water for a few days and it all turns to mush, when I wipe them out everything comes really clean. Wiping a plastic conainer would be a bit trickier though than wiping out a jar.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Philsuma said:


> unbelievable.....5 people actually voted that they use their culture containers one time and throw them away or recycle them!??
> 
> wow....


Just curious, but how many cultures is everyone making each week?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I make @ 15 cultures a week or so. Even if you make @ 40 a week like Scott Menigoz and his awesome zoo like basement set up....you should still try to be as green as possible. No excuses.

Oh yeah, Tim. I do use Excelsior all the time. I went without using it for a whole year and then went back on it and I will always use it from now on. My yields are so much higher and more stable / predictable....but I digress...

I tamp the excelsior wad into the soft culture media when I first create the culture and when it comes time to discard the used up culture, it is really easy to pull the excelsior and the resulting media plug and throw that all into the compost pile.

No coffee filters here....only Excelsior, but I have no idea which of those degrades faster and is better on the environment....anyone know>?


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

I would think the excelsior, if it is actually wood shavings.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

jubjub47 said:


> I've not had the best success with reusing containers in the past. I have a really hard time getting the **** out well enough to use them again. I live in an apartment and don't have a sprayer to work with. I'd love some ideas on cleaning them out. I've tried soaking and scrubbing and such and it just doesn't come clean.


This works REALLY well for me and it's not that messy.

I put the FF cups with any left over media and FFs into the freezer overnight. Take them out of the freezer and let them sit for a minute or two. Take off the lid and turn the FF cup upside down onto a newspaper. Tap on the bottom of the FF cup and the left over media pops out, mostly still frozen so it's easy to just discard in the trash. There's usually a little media left stuck to the sides as well as some FF larvae so I then fill the FF cup with water and let it soak for a few hours and scrub it out with a plastic scrub pad.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

gary1218 said:


> This works REALLY well for me and it's not that messy.
> 
> I put the FF cups with any left over media and FFs into the freezer overnight. Take them out of the freezer and let them sit for a minute or two. Take off the lid and turn the FF cup upside down onto a newspaper. Tap on the bottom of the FF cup and the left over media pops out, mostly still frozen so it's easy to just discard in the trash. There's usually a little media left stuck to the sides as well as some FF larvae so I then fill the FF cup with water and let it soak for a few hours and scrub it out with a plastic scrub pad.


Thanks for that method. I hadn't tried freezing it yet. I'll give that a try in the morning.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

One could also argue that using culture containers one time and then properly recycling them is comparably green to using up resources like hot water or bleach in cleaning out cultures and reusing them. I'm not really sure what's the best way to go about it, but if you're really concerned about being green (as we all should be) then there are a lot of factors to think about than just the fact that you're reusing them.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Corpus Callosum said:


> One could also argue that using culture containers one time and then properly recycling them is comparably green to using up resources like hot water or bleach in cleaning out cultures and reusing them. I'm not really sure what's the best way to go about it, but if you're really concerned about being green (as we all should be) then there are a lot of factors to think about than just the fact that you're reusing them.



I was curious about this as well. The water, sewer, gas for hot water and electricity (if you run them through the dishwasher) must add up. I can fit 28 cups into our dishwasher and need to run 3 or 4 loads per week to keep up. Hard to say what might be best???


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Yeah I have no idea what might be best but I wonder about it sometimes. Maybe if you just soaked the cultures in tap water over a few days until everything came loose that would use up the least resources and be the greenest way to do it? Or would that not do a good enough job in cleaning the containers? Or use a bleach solution and properly neutralize it before disposal?


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

holidayhanson said:


> Sometimes I question the "greeness" of this hobby. With all the lights we burn 12hrs a day year round, heaters, pumps, foggers, we certainly consume more energy than the average household. How many bulbs do we use annually that contain mercury? Also building materials....the cork bark, tree fern, and spagnum and peat moss....are all raped from some place on earth. Also, if there is a demand for WC frogs in america.....there are people in the jungles somewhere collecting frogs because they know americans will pay good money for them.


Actually I was interested in this myself, so I added it up using a nifty little PG&E website that calculates your power usage, and how much it costs you. 

Mine came up to 4-5 dollars a month: 2 39 watt T5s, 3 13watts, and a 26 watt heat pad 13 hours a day. So really maybe for some of the big breeders it can be significant, but if you stick with florescent then your really aren't using that much.

Depending on your computer, we also probably use quite a bit of electricity surfing the web....ahem.. Dendroboard


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Mac said:


> Actually I was interested in this myself, so I added it up using a nifty little PG&E website that calculates your power usage, and how much it costs you.
> 
> Mine came up to 4-5 dollars a month: 2 39 watt T5s, 3 13watts, and a 26 watt heat pad 13 hours a day. So really maybe for some of the big breeders it can be significant, but if you stick with florescent then your really aren't using that much.
> 
> Depending on your computer, we also probably use quite a bit of electricity surfing the web....ahem.. Dendroboard


I am fairly sure that compared to other appliances, computers do not use much energy. I remember reading somewhere that compared to televisions they use less than 1/8 the energy per hour. 

I can't imagine the gs or silicone are very green either.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

i reuse my plastic containers until they have a crack. and personally i think that people shouldnt be buying those disposable ones because even if you recycle the container it still made pollution to make it, and then more pollution to recycle it.

i try to be as green as possible whether it has to do with the frogs or not. i compost the excelsior and the gunk left in the containers and try to stay away from any products that were harvested in a non sustainable method (example: peat moss).

it is rediculous that people throw theirs away that fast! i would think hobbyists would be as green as they can


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I have never used any cleaning agents or hot water cleaning my culture jars, I just fill with cold tap and the water does the job. Then a I use a dirty kitchen towel (the towel must be of rag size so i can wipe out the lower corners) to wipe them out while rinsing after a couple of days and then give them a final clean rinse. I only make 2-3 cultures per week, cleaning the jars takes about 3-4 minutes.


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

i only make 2 culutures every two to three weeks and i just spray the jar out with the hose out side through the media in the palm bushes, (a sort of fertilizer for them. hehe) and then run them in the dishwasher as i would my normal dishes


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## Jerseyzuks (Dec 6, 2008)

I can't believe that so many people use them once, then toss them 

I fill them with hot water, and let them sit for 10 minutes or so while I'm mixing up new media. I dump the water outside, along with the casings and old media.

I do use a tiny bit of dish soap, scrub them out, and rinse really well, write the date on the top, and fill up with new media and starter flies.

Most of my cups have been used at least 6 times now.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

All these polls are flawed and start off badly with bad choice criteria.

I am positive people use their vote just to screw up the poll.

Add the fact that the poll threads exist for such a long time and block up the new posting lists.

We should do away with all polls as they are a very inaccurate source of information.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I agree polls are used way too often but in this case it seemed appropriate, however i should have seperated throw away from recycle or added a couple more detailed or specific choices.
I would suggest that after 7 days are so polls are automatically removed.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

I don't get why its so hard to fathom people just using them once. I personally like to reuse them. But then again I am not a fan of buying water either. However I know MANY people who purchase cases of water. Sorta the same deal dontcha think ?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

.......not really Jason. That analogy was....not...real...close.


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## ZeeMan (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey everyone!

I have been using my plastic jars once and then tossing them, since July last year.
After my last mite invasion and lost most of my viable cultures, I have a been a bit wary of reusing anything from old cultures.
I have 40 cultures running at the moment. I make 6 a week...3 mels and 3 hydei.
I have 3 spots for cultures. The new and older are in different parts of the living room, sitting on blue mite paper. The containers do not touch each other. The oldest are in the laundry room where it is warmer so speeding up pupation before the media goes bad bad.

I will happily reuse the plastic containers...will hot water and soap be enough to kill mites and mold spores? 
Do you guys reuse the caps/covers as well?
I don't have a dish washer...so super heated water isn't an option for me...I do have the kitchen sink spray


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Hot sink water and a little soap always works for me. 

Don't keep cultures past the 30 day mark - rule.

Use blue mite paper.

I spray and wash the lids too....no mite problems.

You just can't microwave or dishwasher them....they melt.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

These lids with the paper on them can be washed also? Josh's Frogs - Vented Insect cup lid - Cups, Lids, and Excelsior


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

ChrisK said:


> These lids with the paper on them can be washed also? Josh's Frogs - Vented Insect cup lid - Cups, Lids, and Excelsior



An overnight soak with a mild bleach solution will fix them right up. But they do wear out after a few uses/cleanings.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

ChrisK said:


> These lids with the paper on them can be washed also? Josh's Frogs - Vented Insect cup lid - Cups, Lids, and Excelsior


 
Oh my yes.....easy. They can even withstand a real good vigorous spraying with hot water. I have some that are almost 4 years old, the paper hole lids....still going strong!


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## Temperance (Feb 12, 2009)

*i use coffee filters, using elastic bands to secure, around under the lip or rim of the jar, for a breathable top.


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

I think I've been using the same plastic ones for over 3 years now, lol. Use'm till they crack.....


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Whew, what we will do to save money to buy more frogs! 
-Beth


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

and save the planet....one tiny bit at a time...


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## garweft (Mar 11, 2008)

I've been reusing my plastic cups ever since I started culturing flies a few years back. I didn't even think of the environmental impact, I'm just cheap. 

I let my old cultures sit and dry out, then when I'm ready to clean the leftover media comes out in one dry crispy piece. The worst part is the old pupae cases. but a quick wash with some hot soapy water and I got a nice slightly used cup. Just make sure to rinse out the sink after your done. A bag of frozen rats floating in the sink doesn't bother the wife, but a sink full of pupae cases = 1 angry wife.

I have been buying new lids and throwing away the old ones after every few uses. I think I remember them ripping on me the first time I tried to clean them. I have a few dozen sitting around that I haven't thrown out yet, Looks like I'm going to give cleaning them another try.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> and save the planet....one tiny bit at a time...


 I agree. One bit at a time, hence the reason I use Nalgene bottles and do not purchase water. I do have several spring locations that I can draw water from. I do not fear drinking water while hiking the trail (in this area) because I have grown up drinking natural spring water. 


Another note, #5 plastics (which is what the containers I have) are often not accepted by normal recycling practices. IE ... unless you deposit these separately they are just normal trash. Often not accepted at most recycling centers.


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## Ed Holder (Sep 26, 2008)

Another good trick to removing old media is to place the culture in a viv for a day or two, it allows leftover flies to get eaten and the moisture loosens up the media from the bottom of the deli cup. I will never discard a container that isn't cracked for the simple reason i am cheap too. I don't believe anything is "Green" as most everything is processed some way or another in a plant/factory and shipped somehow. As it is a good way to think, it is simply not the case.

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

garweft said:


> I have been buying new lids and throwing away the old ones after every few uses. I think I remember them ripping on me the first time I tried to clean them. I have a few dozen sitting around that I haven't thrown out yet, Looks like I'm going to give cleaning them another try.



Bleach them and then rinse them and they clean up very nicely. I have a bunch that have been used for several years now. 

Ed


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## wimpy (Dec 14, 2006)

Ed said:


> Bleach them and then rinse them and they clean up very nicely. I have a bunch that have been used for several years now.
> 
> Ed


I agree with Ed, on the bleaching part. I use a plastic scraper to get the old media out, then I fill them with hot water for an hour or so, then the scraper again to get out the husks, wipe the insides with a paper towel to get any residual gunk, then a 24 hr soak in a 5 gallon bucket of water with 2-3 tablespoons of bleach. Same for the vented lids. Make sure the lids have soaked before lightly scaping with the scraper or a plastic spoon before bleaching. Rinse real well and dry. Ive only ruined 3 lids so far after maybe 10 re-uses. 

I put the old cultures in the garage untill I get get about 30 (three weeks) then I'll do em all at once. For me, freezing doesn't help to remove the old media. If anything, it seems to stick better than when my cultures are producing!

I used to toss the cups and lids also but with the times being the way they are financially....


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## bksbuddha (Oct 2, 2008)

I reuse some of my milk jugs for filtered water & the waters that I have to make for the fish, hermies, & frogs...until they spring a leak. Then they go into the recycling bin. I also have been reusing my fruit fly cups, but I don't really have many as I just started to get some when they're available. I usually feed pinheads & always bring my own large KK w/toilet & paper towel rolls in it so that I don't get them in a baggie w/a paper towel.  Did ya ever try to remove such tiny buggers from a paper towel??? They squish so easily that I used to resort to using a clean make-up brush to get them off.
As for cleaning my cups, I just use the dry out method for the media, wipe out w/hot water using paper towel, & then just rinse w/hot tap water. I'm a true fanatic about not using any soap or cleansing agents on anything that goes in my tats or vivs. I won't even use anything but clean paper towels to wipe either down. The soap residue always seems to cling to things no matter how much rinsing is done. As for my dishwasher, I can smell the detergent on the dishes, so I wonder how safe it is for my babies. 
Just a thought about the use of bleach on the cover, in particular. Because bleach is so caustic that it will eat through hair, cloth, etc., doesn't it stand to reason that it would break down the adhesive properties of the vent pad stuck to the lid? There would also be a residual amount of it left in the pad itself. 
Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

I bleach the lids of my plastic cups (using 1 part bleach 3 parts hot water) and let em air out for a few days and just put the cups through a cycle in the dishwasher..when all said and done they look "good as new"


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

bksbuddha said:


> :Just a thought about the use of bleach on the cover, in particular. Because bleach is so caustic that it will eat through hair, cloth, etc., doesn't it stand to reason that it would break down the adhesive properties of the vent pad stuck to the lid? There would also be a residual amount of it left in the pad itself.
> Just my 2 cents worth.


Don't use straight bleach but a solution along the lines of 1 cup to gallon of water. It will eventually attach the paper fibers of the lid but so far in over a couple of years I haven't had this problem. 
If you are concerned about any potential residue of bleach being present after a through rinse and drying (bleach is one of the few disinfectants recommended for use with amphibians as after through rinsing and air drying there isn't any residue on glass or other solid products) then add a quick rinse/soak and then rinse in water containing a basic aquarium disinfectant (sodium thiosulphate) as this will remove any residual chlorine. 

Ed


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i have always just washed and reused them, lately i started to use bleach and i have foudn taht it keeps the mites much more under control whent eh containers and lids are bleached in a bucket overnight and come out like brand new.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Does anyone know if a light bleach solution will clean benzyl benzoate from the plastic? Benzyl benzoate isn't water soluble so when I spray it on the culture containers it's diluted in alcohol. Just curious if it will be removed by the bleach, if not then I won't need to reapply it to my cultures. Sorry if this is off-topic..


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## wimpy (Dec 14, 2006)

Ed said:


> Don't use straight bleach but a solution along the lines of 1 cup to gallon of water. It will eventually attach the paper fibers of the lid but so far in over a couple of years I haven't had this problem.
> If you are concerned about any potential residue of bleach being present after a through rinse and drying (bleach is one of the few disinfectants recommended for use with amphibians as after through rinsing and air drying there isn't any residue on glass or other solid products) then add a quick rinse/soak and then rinse in water containing a basic aquarium disinfectant (sodium thiosulphate) as this will remove any residual chlorine.
> 
> Ed


From what I learned from homebrewing sanitation and cleaning, a couple of Tablespoons of bleach in 5 gallons will desolve any and almost all the gunk from fermentation vessels (glass or plastic) and the same goes for FF containers. I'm not a scientist but you definately don't need more than a 1/4 cup of bleach in 5 gallons of water. Any more than that is a waste of bleach and not really good for the environment. Also, if you're worried about residual bleach, after rinsing with water, a quick rinse with straight vinegar will neutralize any possible bleach. Or the sodium thiosulphate. I do the same with vinegar when bleaching out Killifish tanks which the fry (babies) of some are extremely sensitive to chemicals.


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## georgiekittie (Jan 27, 2009)

Corpus Callosum said:


> One could also argue that using culture containers one time and then properly recycling them is comparably green to using up resources like hot water or bleach in cleaning out cultures and reusing them. I'm not really sure what's the best way to go about it, but if you're really concerned about being green (as we all should be) then there are a lot of factors to think about than just the fact that you're reusing them.


While that may be true, you then have to factor in the amount of energy it takes to recycle a product. I'm sure they also use a lot of hot water and electricity in the recycling process.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

These containers aren't recyclable. The ones I have are a #5 plastic, not very easy to recycle. #2 is the most common. #5's just go into the normal trash.


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

Glass jars = easiest and most productive for me. They're also the cheapest in the long run! 1 tsp of bleach, fill to brim with water, let sit for a couple hours and once run through the dishwasher without detergent. Eezy Peezy, Japaneezy! 

-Matt


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Faceless said:


> but the thinner flimsier
> ones i'm not so sure how they would hold up..


 
thankfully they do hold up. I've been reusing cx's for years. Dishwasher on gentle.

S


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

sports_doc said:


> thankfully they do hold up. I've been reusing cx's for years. Dishwasher on gentle.
> 
> S


I`ve cracked quite a few handwashing them. I should`ve kept those cups from years back, much better quality and they were cheaper.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

georgiekittie said:


> While that may be true, you then have to factor in the amount of energy it takes to recycle a product. I'm sure they also use a lot of hot water and electricity in the recycling process.


Yeah, the only point I was trying to get across was that if someone really wanted to be green there are a lot of factors to think about. More than likely the most green thing to do is reusing the containers as everyone has been mentioning on the thread. Side note.. #5 plastics are accepted for recycling in my area.


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> I make @ 15 cultures a week or so. Even if you make @ 40 a week like Scott Menigoz and his awesome zoo like basement set up....


Thanks for the shout-out!
Suprised to read a few pages into this thread before anyone mentioned a mild bleach soak for containers and lids. My method is to set up two 5 gal buckets and a plastic bag-lined trashcan. Fill each bucket with hot water and bleach. Scoop the spent culture media/excelsior/casings using your gloved hand into the trashcan, place the lid in one bucket and the cup in the other. The longer you soak them, the easier it is to completely clean them. I prefer overnight. A deep sink in my frog area facilitates the cleanup using a sponge on the cups, rinsed with water and drip dried. The cloth lids bleach clean nicely, even those caked with fly poop. I've used this method for years now and cut my replacement cost dramatically, given the number of cultures I make, this adds up.
I wouldn't even THINK of asking my wife to use the dishwasher--I'm sure it'd work, but not worth the future arguements!
Scott


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## Frank St (Mar 20, 2005)

really interesting following the ways of this thread....In times when "sustainable development" has become adapted to a multi-lateral term, why shouldn´t frog-keepers be concerned about "green-breeding"..(besides the fact of costs for electricity, transporting-costs via airplane for interior and stuff for decorating (every root may used by indigenous folks for making a fire for cooking) and so on...did I mention the risk of spreading chytrid fungus in our own habitat?
Anyways, I use jars for breeding ff since years and old nylons from girlfriend for covering them (Ok the fishnets didn´t work work that well ;-).... A good way to clean out the truly stinking, muddy old stuff is to place the whole jar on the heater or even on top of a terrarium-light (just make sure it is covered well for the mites must not escape and run free to explore fresh cultures...) After a few days, when all humidity is faded from the substrate it gets loose by itself and I can extract it like a solid pile of dried substrate (looks like these fibre-oat meals)...the rest I do put in the dishwasher at 70°C and the jars are as good as new....for I am using large ones with 1 litre capacity I also can raise bigger cultures and gain more flies as with thee 0.5 litre cups...
It´s just a little effort towards a "clean conscience" as good as keepers of animals in captivity can evolve such thoughts..
and as we Germans are "the Eco-Nazis" (at least a friend from the US told me so) why not caring about different ways ....
Cheers,
Frank


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Frank St said:


> Anyways, I use jars for breeding ff since years and old nylons from girlfriend for covering them (Ok the fishnets didn´t work work that well ;-).... A good way to clean out the truly stinking, muddy old stuff is to place the whole jar on the heater or even on top of a terrarium-light (just make sure it is covered well for the mites must not escape and run free to explore fresh cultures...) After a few days, when all humidity is faded from the substrate it gets loose by itself and I can extract it like a solid pile of dried substrate (looks like these fibre-oat meals)


I do this with the older cultures. Since I keep the new cultures in a different room I don't even worry about the mites. I can usually turn the culture over and tap on the bottom and have the entire left over media pop out like a little dry cookie. This then goes into the compost heap (since it wasn't exposed to the frogs). 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

someone please kill this thread....the poll was initially flawed and it's about dead anyway.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Those of you that run them through the dishwasher, do you do it with or without detergent and with or without the other dishes?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Been thinking about this more lately - since I'm in a 1br apt and don't really possess the storage facilities for 20-30 of these dirty stinking cups waiting for enough to fill the top rack of the dishwasher (if I put any in the bottom rack they fly off really fast from the water pressure, and hand washing them doesn't do the trick for me - no room to really be soaking significant numbers of them for hours in bleach either), and the lids really only last me a couple of uses before the cloth starts peeling off the plastic and letting flies in/out, is recycling them after one use really less green than reusing them? Like I said only the top rack of the dishwasher can be used so it's not filled, so with electricity, water, or bleach, stress, would recycling them after a use really be less green?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I dunno.

I use glass Mason jars with a coffee filter on top. When it's spent, I fill it with water to loosen it up and then dump it in my garden. Rinse/wash the jar, and start again.


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

It amazes me that so many folks do the one use and toss. 

I too use glass mason jars. Plastic cups are petroleum based a non renewable resource. To me, water is a renewable / recycled resource and the plastic dixie cups aren't. 

Rather than excelsior I use spanish moss that I get at the dollar store, 2 L for a buck. 








It is much cheaper than excelsior and it breaks down in the compost pile much quicker too. I have also noticed that the maggots also seem to snack on it a bit.











I also use cut up paper towels towel squares which are held down by the metal canning lids. I have been using the same jars and canning lids for probably 15 years.








I keep them in the refrigerator until I'm ready to start a new culture. It takes all of about 30 seconds to start a new culture. I typically start a new one when I'm feeding.



As for cleaning up, I soak the jar over night in the sink and then use a kitchen tongs 








to grab what is left of the spanish moss. I use the moss to do an initial quick scrub of the interior glass to remove most of the pupa casings and left over media. I just scrub it around the edge of the jar a couple of times, scrub the bottom a bit and then dump it out and compost it.


Then a quick scrub with a baby bottle scrub brush cleans out any remaining crud.









The jars, tongs, and baby bottle brush all go into the dishwasher with the rest of the dishes for cleaning / sterilizing.


The metal rings hang on a coat hanger hook that I made and attached to the side of my feeding station. They don't typically get washed as they will rust after a bit and they are not exposed to the flies or media.









To me washing and reusing costs a lot less than it would to continually buy new cups. 

My 2 1/2 cents.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Outstanding, especially going to try the moss


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Dave, what do you do if one of the cultures has black or white mold? Would the temp of running it through the dishwasher (no detergent) take care of it?


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> Dave, what do you do if one of the cultures has black or white mold? Would the temp of running it through the dishwasher (no detergent) take care of it?


Actually I've only had one culture in the past 6 years go bad with mold, it was the black mold. I have used my own formula of FF media for maybe 10 years.

When I did get a bad moldy culture, I took the culture outside to flush it out so as not release any of the mold spore back into the house. Yes, the dishwasher's soap and heat will kill any remaining mold spores.

Using detergent actually helps to break down mold's and bacteria's cell wall membranes so that elements can pass through the the cell's walls allowing the cells to be killed easier. I use soap to wash all of my jars so I don't know for sure whether washing without detergent would kill the all of the spores. 


I actually wash my culture bottles with the rest of the dishes, using just regular dishwashing soap and have done so for years with no detriment to my cultures. I have used both the dishwasher's heat dry cycle as well as the energy saver cycle (no heat to dry the dishes) with no noticeable difference in my cultures.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I reuse the containers and lids until they crack and then they go in the recycle bin. After each use, I clean them out and then soak them in bleach water. I've been doing it for years with no problems.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

JimO said:


> I reuse the containers and lids until they crack and then they go in the recycle bin. After each use, I clean them out and then soak them in bleach water. I've been doing it for years with no problems.


Yeah but like I said, not enough room to be doing that - as well as the lids not lasting for many uses


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

The Spanish moss is an outstanding idea. It grows on our trees and it's simple enough to drop some in boiling water and then dry it out.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah my mom and sister live in Fl, anytime I'm down there I see that stuff hanging off all the trees anywhere I look. I would be worried about pesticides from spraying etc though.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

ChrisK said:


> Yeah my mom and sister live in Fl, anytime I'm down there I see that stuff hanging off all the trees anywhere I look. I would be worried about pesticides from spraying etc though.


Well, unless the moss available commercially is from a certified pesticide free source, I would have the same concerns with that. In some areas they actually do aerial spraying for mosquito control, so I am very selective when it comes to collecting leaves. The nice thing is that I can get Spanish moss from the same places where I collect Live Oak leaves.

On the subject of the containers, I just keep a 5-gal bucket of bleach water and drop the lids and containers in there for a couple of days. I change out the bleach water about every six months. You could use a smaller container since space is a concern. Honestly, I've never had problems with the lids other than cracking after dozens of uses. I've also considered mason jars with a coffee filter, but haven't tried that yet.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

I freeze my cultures in a chest freezer when they are done. Then run them under hot water for 5 sec, lightly push the bottom and all the media pops out in one clump. I then use a scour pad to get the stuff off the sides. Very easy and I haven't had to buy cups in a year.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah I thought about the packaged stuff too after I posted, not sure where it comes from.

Bleach water is no good after a couple of hours, mix it fresh when you want to disinfect something.


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

frogface said:


> I dunno.
> 
> I use glass Mason jars with a coffee filter on top. When it's spent, I fill it with water to loosen it up and then dump it in my garden. Rinse/wash the jar, and start again.



this is what i have moved to using as well!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I find it interesting that the lids aren't lasting for you. I need to get some new cups and lids (mainly because I don't want to carry them down the steps to the basement and toss the cultures down the steps and then I go down later and pick them up) but I haven't purchased any for two years. 

Ed


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah I think it was because I was stacking them so the larvae were up on the lids keeping them wet, as well as keeping the cultures in a big sterilite tub for the winter to keep them from drying out. But that drew my attention to it happening still now, less dramatically since not keeping them in the closed tub though


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

JimO said:


> Well, unless the moss available commercially is from a certified pesticide free source, I would have the same concerns with that. In some areas they actually do aerial spraying for mosquito control, so I am very selective when it comes to collecting leaves. The nice thing is that I can get Spanish moss from the same places where I collect Live Oak leaves.



I have used the packaged stuff for many years with no problems. I first started experimenting with the spanish moss maybe 8 years ago. I originally purchased it a Walmart and then found it at the dollar store. Look in the home decor section where they have the fake plants. I have never had an issue. Initially I was pretty concerned about pesticides / mildicides that they might use to keep the moss from molding in the package, etc. I initially took many precautions as I experimented with it, but after many years of use, I have not ever had a problem with the flies / maggots / frogs. Now I don't worry about it.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

davecalk said:


> I have used the packaged stuff for many years with no problems. I first started experimenting with the spanish moss maybe 8 years ago. I originally purchased it a Walmart and then found it at the dollar store. Look in the home decor section where they have the fake plants. I have never had an issue. Initially I was pretty concerned about pesticides / mildicides that they might use to keep the moss from molding in the package, etc. I initially took many precautions as I experimented with it, but after many years of use, I have not ever had a problem with the flies / maggots / frogs. Now I don't worry about it.


That is good to know, especially for people who live north of where it grows. For me, I can just pull it off the trees and drop it in boiling water for a few minutes to kill mites and fungus.

I do appreciate the suggestion. It's an awesome idea and I agree that it makes perfect sense as an alternative to excelsior. Those dang wads of excelsior from over a year ago are still rolling around in my compost heap.

BTW - Did you know that many years ago people would treat Spanish moss somehow to remove the outer layer and use the more fibrous internal material for matresses, packing, etc.? Just a little Southern history trivia that is occupying a memory node in my brain that I could use for something far more important - like where I put my reading glasses.


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## Jarhead_2016 (Jan 7, 2010)

as for the lids for the mason jars i use a double layer of cheese cloth on them which works really well as long as you dont turn them upside down hehe
-scotty


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

> I do appreciate the suggestion. It's an awesome idea and I agree that it makes perfect sense as an alternative to excelsior. Those dang wads of excelsior from over a year ago are still rolling around in my compost heap.


That is what prompted me to start looking for an alternative. The little wads acting like the energizer bunny and refusing to die in the compost pile. 



> BTW - Did you know that many years ago people would treat Spanish moss somehow to remove the outer layer and use the more fibrous internal material for matresses, packing, etc.?


That's an interesting little tidbit. I like those weird bits of trivia. You never know when something like that might come in handy. It's right up there with knowing who Underdog's girl friend is.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

wimpy said:


> From what I learned from homebrewing sanitation and cleaning


Happy to see another Homebrewer here also.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

In regards to Reusing Containers.

I use Plastic Jars with Plastic Lids. I originally purchased a few Cultures before starting to do my Own. Now I go by a local Chain Store and ask them to donate the old dead cultures to Me. I have about 30 jars so far. Thought about the Mason Jar route but I have a tendency to drop things or the Cats to knock them off the shelf.



The Plastic Lid has about a 1 1/2 Inch Diameter hole in the Lid


Everything is easy to clean and comes apart easily


And the Screen is easy to put back in


Plenty of Air Flow and I have never had a problem with My Cultures. They have been in Use 2+ years now. Cleaned only with warm soap and water and rinsed with Cold water and then air dried. I only buy fruit fly medium and I am still on my first large bag of Aspen


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

I just made my way through this thread and would like to thank the many contributors - it was very informative for a newbie. 

I have two thoughts...

I don't believe the fabric on the "disposable" lids is paper - AZDR refers to them as "poly fabric" - AZDR.com - Arizona Dendrobate Ranch - Quality Dart Frog Breeders & Terrarium Supplies.

Anyone using AZDR's "Stainless Steel Mesh Discs" with Mason Jars in place of coffee filters or paper towels? (Two mesh sizes available on the same page referenced above.) I think they could be argued to be "greener" than a throwaway paper product.


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