# Woooooo ! Hooooo!! froglet season (updated 07-07)



## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

After being all down on myself for loosing one of my intermedius I came home today to a Very pleasent suprise in one of my Pum tanks .




















Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssss!!!!
Eggs.... and I was'nt even sure there was a male in this tank !
It looks like 8 or 10 of them , I guess it's to early to tell if they are good or have been fertilized yet .

There were two frogs in this tank till yesterday and last night I put the last one of the quarentened frogs in here , So I could start on finishing the last 20H for my rack . I thought they might be a pair by body shape but never heard or seen calling or any interaction between them because the one I think is male is very shy and hardly see it.

Dad ?










He lives under this coco hut and shoots under at the first fast movement .










Mom? 



















The second female I introduced last night 

This is the most skittish frog in existance if I see it once in a month I'm lucky. It was always on the ground level this one could be the mom too .










They're viv 
the eggs are on the top left brom 












This almost eases the pain of loosing one of my babies , hopefully they are good and they care for them . Or hopefully eventually get it right . 

I better start concentrating on keeping water in the broms and film cannisters just in case .

Wooooooooooo Hoooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!


Now if only my Escudo's ...............................................................


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

It is great to see pum eggs. Sorry to hear about the intermedius . Also that is a great looking viv, nice use of broms. More and more CB pums is awesome. I hope the parents are good to the little ones .


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

congrats ont the eggs!its a nice viv you have them in what size is it? i especially enjoy the pattern on the second female very cool looking


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## droseraman (Jun 17, 2004)

nice


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Congrats! Hopefully they will churn out some froglets for ya.


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## Karel (Mar 7, 2006)

congrats! keep us posted on the development.


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

I really like the pattern on those, really nice.

I must say though, that when I saw the title of the thread that I thought your escuados mated. Oh, well still very cool. Congrats.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

I was going to take some pictures of the eggs today to get an opinion weather they are good or not but when I looked in the tank this guy ? was sitting on top of them , I guess "watering" them keeping them moist . 

Does the male or female keep the eggs moist ? :? ( I tried doing a search but didn't come up with an answer ) Since I've never seen either calling I 'm not positive which frog is what sex .
I guess this is a good sign that they might plan on takeing care of them though .

Sorry for the fuzzy picturs , they were through the misty glass since I didn't want to startle them .










the other was watching on and the third was in hideing like always .Iv'e only seen it once since puting it in here .










Here are the eggs today a couple hours after watering . 3 days old ( those of you that keep pums what do you think ?? good or Bad ??





















Instead of starting a new thread I'm going to put this here .

Since I have all my frogs out of quarentine , I took my 20 gal H horizontal temp tank down and now have space for this tank . It's a 29 gal. that I had fish in 15 years ago , now given new life . I took the plastic framing off of it and removed the front glass very carefully ( with razorblades and fine wire ), and cut it and used it for the top , it has euro style vents one in the top and one in the front like my 2 big vivs , drilled it for a drain and mister nozzles . I put this togather right after I built the 2 big vivs and it has been sitting on my workbench since spring and now I finally get a chance to plant it .










Now with plants , just what I had lying around and sanitized plants from the other viv . 





































Two different Gastrochilus orchids . I don't know how well they will do in here but I got them fairly cheap so I thought I would give them a try .








I

I really got to do something with the lights though but I ran out of wood on the base .










This will house a few retics this spring or hopefully a few baby pumilio in a few months ( He says optimistically   !!) Or mabe a pair of larger species frogs , some tincs or six point aratus ??? I don't know yet


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Usaully my male will water the eggs also. Great looking viv by the way.
Jason


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Excellent new viv.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Mark!

There's just too much to comment on here! Glad you found my Man Creek egg thread--by what's happening with my eggs, I'd say yours look very good. (Nine seems like a lot?!)

Wow, that new viv is stunning! (As are your "old" ones...  ) Wish I had such gorgeous plants "just lying around..."

I'm sorry, I'm confused--if you removed the front glass and made a top out of it...what did you do with the original top opening? Add glass? (It's late--I'm not thinking straight...)

Beautiful pics, great thread!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Diane , the viv sits on it's original bottom . The original front glass is now cut and glued in on the top . Plus a one inch vent is glued in on the front of the top . Now in the front I glued a 5" or 6" tall piece of glass across the front bottom inset about 2" from the front edge . I dont have a picture from this viv , but it's similar to this 










Then I glued a piece across the front outside edge of the glass about 2" up from the bottom and then glued another screen vent horizontally in between these 2 pieces of glass like this ( this viv has the front 3 pieces of glass glued in verticly, the 29gal has one piece horizontilly)










Then I used a plastic living hinge to hinge the front doorglass and it swings from the top downward . The top vent has a plexiglass enclosure with a fan on it to pull air in from the bottom out the top. 
( I dont have the fan hooked up yet so the glass gets foggy easily )


















I hope this helps .


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## dustin_grey (Mar 8, 2006)

Wow, I would say thats pretty much brilliant. Thanks for the inspiration.

Holy hell. I wish I could do something like that. But I have no cash, no patience, and no working skills  .


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

pigface said:


>


Where did you get the aluminum channel you used for the door track on this viv? Very nice and clean looking.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

dustin_grey said:


> Wow, I would say thats pretty much brilliant. Thanks for the inspiration.
> 
> Holy hell. I wish I could do something like that. But I have no cash, no patience, and no working skills  .


Kinda simultaneously inspiring & defeating, isn't it?  

But I'm taking notes. I'm getting real tired of having to reach in through the top of my 18h. Even in a small tank like that it's hard to reach the bottom--esp. when you're worried about frogs hopping out the top!

Mark, thanks so much for the pics! They are very helpful.


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## CanadianAmphibian (Jul 27, 2006)

Goodluck with your eggs!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Well I am a happy camper today  the egges in my yellow pumilio tank look GOOD ! and are developing ! 










And Paul you must be Psycic lookie what I found in my Escuado tank    They have that nice big "Reins Pride" brom in here and they go and lay on the smallest brom in the tank !









I can only see the one but they are in a precarious place but where theres one there might be more where I can't see them . Hopefully these guys get it right the first time too .

Double Whooooo Hooooo . 

I better save the 29 gal viv for some babies :wink: :wink:


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Wow, congrats! Sounds like these Escudos get settled in very quickly and have made themselves right at home. HOpe they end up good for you and if not at least you have some hope as they are laying!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Niiiiiiiiiiice!


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Glad to here the escudos are laying for you. Sometime when I am down your way I am going to have to stop in and get a peek at them.


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

pigface said:


> And Paul you must be Psycic lookie what I found in my Escuado tank    They have that nice big "Reins Pride" brom in here and they go and lay on the smallest brom in the tank !


Yes, I ran into one of them last night while making my nightly walk across the asrtral plain and requested that they get busy so I can get some of my own. Your welcome. lol :wink: 
Very cool, Best of luck!!!  

As far as the small brom thing goes, I have a pair of Dwarf Tincs that lay their eggs on a mag-float magnet hanging on the auarium glass in the front of the tank. Go figure :?


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Mark, that is SO cool! Like everyone else, I'm very eager to get the Escudos established!

BTW, are they eating melanogaster for you?

Your yellow pum eggs are looking great! Did you say there were 9 of them?!

Wait, I just scrolled back--I think I see 9 in one of your earlier pics. That's going to be some workload for the parents.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

A small update . The yellow pum eggs of the nine seven are devoloping nicely and a few are already wiggling around . Two of them went moldy and I dont know wether or not I should have , but I gently removed the two bad ones without harming the others and a couple dead fruit flys also from the area . You can see the bad ones in the picture .










And the Esquado egg looks good . There is only the one , I looked all around with a mirror on a stick and this is the only one that I seen , the egg looks like it's started to devide ? I haven't seen any one of them tend the egg and I am still clueless to which ones are the parents . I wish I could figure it out so I can remove the others to a seperate viv .











Also . I don't know if its because of the eggs in the tank but the yellow male seems to have gotten less shy and is staying nearer the eggs . Before he used to always stay on the ground under the coco hut now he's usually in a brom near the eggs , as does one of the females . 

Has anyone else noticed behavior like this ? 

Will the parents usually stay near the eggs and try to keep others away ?

Diane , They seem to be eating the melos . There always seems to be less in there in the evenings , but I suppliment with springtails every couple days just in case . Even if all the rest hatch out I doubt they will take care of all of them , that would be alot of eggs for her to lay for food . 

And I added another small-medium sized brom near the one they layed on , one that looks better to lay eggs on for future use . I hope .


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Jeez, Mark, that Escudo in back of the egg pic is just so sweet! I'll betcha they can find places to put eggs that you can't find!  

(BTW, according to your yellow pum logic, could this be one of the parents?)

My MC's do seem to spend quite a bit of time lurking around the eggs...but it's not that big a viv, and they've always been all over it...still, I think it represents a difference from their pre-egg behavior. (And of course, at times they're definitely right on the eggs, tending them, as well!)


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Mark, you did the right thing by removing the bad eggs. If you had not it would have ruined the others. Good luck!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Well , my yellow pumilio eggs day eight and one tad molded and went bad down to six and the others don't seem to be moving as much as before not good . I hope they all dont go bad , but on the good side they layed five more eggs yesterday . 

Yellow pumilio , Day seven 










Day one , five new eggs 










Sorry this one is through two panes of glass is the only way to see them all .










The escuado egg is doing well but it slowly day by day keeps creeping down the side of the brom and I'm afraid it's going to fall off before it gets a chance to be deposited . Its down lower today but caught in the "V" of the leaves . Hopefully it stays there .

Escudo day three .










I'm beginning to think this one is one of the parents , maybe the female because I've never seen it call ? it is always up here watching the egg. 










Heres a couple new pictures of them . These guys are so bold they are always out and around 










This is the one I know is a male the others are still up in the air .










While I'm posting pictures , Here are a couple other pums I havent posted pictures of yet , I'm not sure of the sex on these yet


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Just a suggestion, Some other pum experts might want to chime in here before you try this as I have not bred them myself yet. Anyway, if you are worried about the escuado egg falling then you might try wrapping that part of the brom with seran wrap. Watch out for any frogs trying to escape while you are preoccupied though. i'm not sure if tampering would cause the pums to abandon the egg or not. wait for somebody else to confirm whether this is a good or bad idea.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Well between now and the last post a couple hours ago the Escuado egg slid all the way down in the brom were it would have died . So I pulled the brom out turned it upside down and it slid back out . Then I rearranged that leaf so it is now flat and shouldn't slide back off . All without tuching it ( I don't know if that will make a difference or not ) I hope they still take care of it . 

I don't know about that because the male was calling up a storm while I was doing this . He did not seem too happy at all !!! :x :x :x I could not see were he was calling from , though it was alot louder than I have ever heard him call before . I don't know if it was the same frog I heard before either . 

And now I know that there was only this egg layed also as I did not see any more in the brom .

I guess I'll have to keep my fingers crossed .


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Mark,

I wouldn't worry about your yellow pum eggs. My MC eggs are even older, and I too have worried about less movement, but one of them did wiggle when I was taking pics today, so that was reassuring. 

What a neat trick with that brom & egg! Hope the fix lasts. I can't believe you didn't find more eggs inside! It's cool to know that the male was scolding you. 

Thanks for all the nice pics. You sure have a fantastic pum collection!


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

pigface said:


> I don't know about that because the male was calling up a storm while I was doing this . He did not seem too happy at all !!!


Dfs are super protectice of there eggs. I was removing some dead FFs from a clutch the other day and the female tinc was up there trying to guard them immediately. Kinda funny how quickly she came to the rescue.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Heres a picture of were the egg is now It looks like it will stay there . And I'm glad I moved it because I saw it wiggle today , otherwise it surely would have died . The only problem now is I can hardly see it and can't get good pictures .

Day five escuado egg 










I guess my moving it did not affect the frogs interest in it because this one is glued to it constantly 










Day nine yellow pum eggs 










Diane , I was almost tempted to give up un them but today a few looked like they have moved and are looking better  . And no more bad ones so far . Yours are comeing along nicely too and like you said seems like it's taking along time , almost like watching grass grow ... Well almost . I would feel alot better seing them wiggling in a brom or film canister than hopeing they don't go bad ( I'm not normally a patient person!! ). 

Day three 
The newest yellow pum eggs look good if you look close you can see some have divided in fours . I have since removed the dead flies from these .










I hope I'm not boring you with all the updates .


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Not me!

It's like we're in the same LaMaze class...


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Not boring at all. I love you cristos they are very exceptional specimens. And of course the escuado egg is very exciting.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Yellow pumilio tads . Well its day 11 and this morning all the tads except one are gone :shock: and the last one is moving around like crazy . I hope they transferred the others this morning while I was still sleeping . I finally saw the male calling this morning for the first time so now I know for Sure which is which . He was next to a film cannister calling up a storm , hopefully because there is a tad in there telling the female where it is . He sure has gotten bolder since there are eggs in there before he would have went hopping away . I cannot see any tads in the cannisters hanging on the glass and i can't see into any that I foamed into the background , so I'll have to wait to see if I can see her feeding them or see a little head pop out in a few months . I did see her coming out of a brom though . 

Diane , yours should be ready to transport soon also ?

Escuado tad day six. Well its gone too . I don't know what happened to it . Six days I think is a little early to be ready to transport a tad don't you think . I only saw it moving for the first time yesterday. Hopefully they mature a little faster and it's in a brom too , but I doubt it I think so , it's too soon .. hopefully they lay some more eggs soon , or have some in there that I havent found. :wink: 


Also while I was feeding yesterday I was looking at the door on the 29gal tank and was thinking it looks awefully big and it would be easy for a frog to escape if I wasn't paying attention . So I took it out and cut it in two and made two doors out of it .I think this will work out better 



















Hopefully that should make it harder for the frogs to get out while I'm feeding or whatever .


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Good idea on cutting the door in two. that should help a lot.

Sorry to here that the escuaso egg dissapeared, It may have been eaten by one of the other escuado. I would try breaking them up into pairs asap. Don't worry though if they don't get it right the first few times. Just be patient and they will start being more successful. Hope all is well with the cristos as well. If I ever get my red rios breeding I would like to work out a trade with you for some of the cristos. 

Good Luck!!!


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## lessthantito (Nov 6, 2006)

beautiful viv's!!!! did you build them all yourself I really love the euro style w/ no black plastic on the tops and bottms looks great do you use regular screen for the vents @ the top and bottom?


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Referencing the other thread from Frogfarm, in which he had an escuado eat anothers eggs. I think that it is likely that one of the other escaudos did in fact eat your egg as I surmised. I realize that you are not sure as to who is who, but I would try to figure that out asap and get them sepparated because egg eating will cause fighting and eventually a very expensive and rare dead frog.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Well day 13 . And Bad news  Bad news  no news  Good news  

After the first tad loss in my Reticulated yellow pumilios viv I decided to remove one of the females to prevent it happening again , which I did yesterday . So I come home from work today and guess what the other batch of eggs are gone now too !  I guess I guessed wrong and pulled the wrong female . I had a 50 - 50 chance and I choose the wrong female , go figure that’s the way my luck has been going . So , well I switched them back . I hope that’s not too much stress on that one
female . There is still the one tad still in there and the male was still taking care of it yesterday . I don't have much hope of seeing it transported , but you never know . Maybe I'll get some new eggs soon .

No news on the Escuados good or bad no new eggs or no old eggs . I am going to eventually
separate these into twos ( possible pairs ? ) as soon as I can get this other tank up growing
a little longer as I don't have any more space for more quarantine containers at the moment . 

The only good news is I've been trying to find a willing female for my calling male
orange Cristobal and so far I've put each of my four choices in with him for at least a week ,
the first was in there a month and no go. No eggs . Well last night I put the last choice in and this
evening EGGS ! ( I'm not going to jinx myself by posting pictures yet ) The only problem is there was another one in there too . So I decided
to pull that one out of there since there were no eggs in there with that one for at least a week . What’s the chance of me pulling the wrong frog twice in a row. :? :? . Don't answer that !

Now that I think back I didn't get any eggs in my yellow pum tank until I put the frog I now have in the tank in with the male and the other possible female that was already in there for a while ( The one I now
think ate the eggs ) . The first possible female was in the tank for a few weeks and no eggs . Then I put the other in there and bang , eggs the next day . The two that I now think laid the eggs were in quarantine together with each other for almost three months with no calling no fighting or almost no behavior with each other at all . Then I take
them out and put each of them them with a male and the next day within twelve hours eggs on both
occasion . It can't be coincidence .

This musical frogs is a pain in the butt , but I think I have the two tanks figured out . I just hope I haven’t stressed them out too much by moving them around . 

Paul , That’s why I haven't separated the Escuados yet , I don't want to stress them . They are doing good so far no fighting or odd behavior, so a couple more weeks should be OK till I separate them in twos in separate vivs . I think I have a good idea of which to put togather with each other as I positively know which is the calling male and I think I know which female , but I will not know till I actually separate them. I will eventually get them figured out .


What I can't figure out is how the frog ate the eggs . When i tried to separate the two bad eggs and dead fruit flys out the other day it was really hard to do because of the thick clear goo gel the eggs are surrounded in . It would take some work for a frog to get through that ?

I have a calling Male coming for my two spotted yellow ( Probable female ) Cristobals tomorrow . I'm not going to go through with this again . One female at a time for this guy untill I get eggs !!! 
By the time I get them all figured out I'll probably have a few extras to sell or trade .


lessthantito -- The two large euro style vivariums in the one picture , I made from scratch they are 2'L x 2'W x 3'H about 90 gallons . The other 29 gallon viv was a regular fish tank i had lying around . You can't see it because of the wood base I made but the bottom has the black plastic on it still . the top plastic was removed so I could glue the new glass top and vent on it . The screen is stainlsss steel in regular screen door frameing cut to fit the application . The 20h's on my rack are not euro style though as they are harder to build and you loose a little bottom space because of the vent .

Hopefully I have more luck with these eggs .

Sorry about running on . This is the most writeting I've done since high school :lol:


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Mark I would not get to down in the mouth about losing eggs. It happens to everybody and you have to rememer that it is only one clutch (per group). You still have years of breeding and learning ahead of you. You'll get it going, just give it time.



pigface said:


> I don't have any more space for more quarantine containers at the moment .


There's always more room :twisted: :wink: 



pigface said:


> What’s the chance of me pulling the wrong frog twice in a row. Confused Confused . Don't answer that !


The Answer is...................... Oh, nevermind :lol: 



> Paul , That’s why I haven't separated the Escuados yet , I don't want to stress them . They are doing good so far no fighting or odd behavior .


I hope your right about the fighting, just because you don't see it does not mean it is not happening. the thing is that fighting a lot of times does not result in death due to injury, rather it is the result of stress.



> I have a calling Male coming for my two spotted yellow ( Probable female ) Cristobals tomorrow . I'm not going to go through with this again . One female at a time for this guy untill I get eggs !!!


Don't be to concerned about sepperating the different variations of the cristos. They are most likely just that, variations and not sepperate morphs.



> By the time I get them all figured out I'll probably have a few extras to sell or trade .


Good, as I said earlier, I want some of your cristos.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Hey, Mark--you're learning a lot as you go along...and I'm learning from you! With all these breeding frogs I'd say you're off to a great start and all it will take is some fine tuning...

I, for one, appreciate all the details.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Thanks for a great thread! Beautiful frogs.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Well there hasn't been alot of change since my last post , no more eggs in the yellow Cristobal tank or Escuado tank but the males have been calling allmost all the time so hopefully soon  . 

I took the extra female out of the yellow pumilio viv so there is only a pair in there now and I split the Escuados up into twos so I have a pair in one tank and I think one female and one unknown in a big temp container I set up . Two frogs per tank seems like it will be the easiest way to go for now .

I'm slowly learning by my mistakes and trial and error here . I talked to Marcus the other day and even he cant tell for sure about sexing pumilios , and Aaron is having a time of it figuring his Escuado's out ,So if guys with as much breeding experience as them are having trouble , what hope do I have . :wink: 

Since there are no eggs left in the Cristobals tank the male has gone back to being shy , except when he's out calling and stalking the female . He's either hiding or runs when you look in the tank .

My second yellow pum tank has a male in it now . I just picked him up a few days ago from SNDF ( It's probably left over from the same batch as my other ones ) and has been calling alot so far . I pulled the extra females out of the tank so I don't go through the egg eating again . I'll try each one for a week or two each untill I get some eggs .

The new guy he has some neat blue coloring on his legs it dosen't come out in the picture though its almost a baby blue-green irradescent .










Here are the the eggs in my orange cristobal tank . Back to square one . starting over . They look like they are good so far . A few of them are starting to devide . Since there is only one pair in this tank I hope for better results , at least the extra female will not eat them :twisted: 

Three days old .










Four days old .










Mama 










Papa 










How come all my males are shy . I thought most pumilios were bold ? :? He sits right here and calls all day from this spot . I don't know if hes shy or just lazy , since the eggs are only just about two inches out in front of him on the same leaf !!! Right behind the other brom in the picture .


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

pigface said:


> Mama


That's a nice shot of a really striking looking frog!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Get Er Done ! 

Full moon this week , and someone was out howling at the moon last night !!

I was beginning to wonder if I seperated the right Escuados out of the viv . Well today I found out I guessed right for a change . Five fresh new eggs . 

It almost feels like Easter any more , lookin for eggs in my tanks .



















Since I took the other two frogs out of the tank I have noticed they have been out in the open less , so when I saw papa sitting out on the brom I was curious , sure enough he was sitting on some eggs . 

Now hopefully they can take care of the rest . 

If I remember right the last batches of eggs came close to a full moon too , does anybody else notice more egg laying activity around this time also ? 


The orange Cristo eggs are starting to show that tadpole shape and they are coming right along . This is the first batch from them .

Day 6 










I'm still wondering whether I picked the right yellow female In the first tank . No new eggs yet , not from him not trying though . I guess I'll give them another week or so before I switch them around and try the other female back with him . I dont usually get to see him much , but tonight he posed real nice for a portrait.










Heres lookin at ya .

Put some wings and antenna on him he almost looks like a yellowjacket bee .


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Congrats! Nice progress.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Very sweet, Mark! Good luck with all these.

About the full moon--I do remember a thread some time ago talking about some such effect. Why don't you try a search?

That last pic's great!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

*gdfgrse*

missing eggs could be snails also, if you have any that is....i have recently encountered that problem ;(


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Awesome man, Good luck!!!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Dave , I dont think its snails or slugs as I havnt seen any in these 2 tanks . I have some in one of my big tanks that I'm trying to get rid of .though ( The lettuce trick is working so far , lots on the lettuce in the morning . I was suprised there were so many in there ! ) Besides they all seemed to dissapear at once not one at a time .

My Escudos layed 4 more eggs the other day and I caught dad cheacing up on them . 




























They must have been in there for a day or so before I saw them , they have begun to divide .

The first clutch is doing good too as they seem to be good also .



















Papa looks like he's put on a little weight since I got him, who says they only eat springtails . No new pics of the female she's gotten a little shy since I removed the other pair from this tank .




















The orange Cristobal eggs look like they are almost ready to be moved by the parents soon . They are wiggling like crazy the last couple days .



















Nothing happening in the other yellow pumilio tanks yet .


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Well I was right about the orange pumilio tads being ready to transport because look what I found this afternoon .

Day 11 




























It looks like these got it right the first time . I didn't see were she put it and there a couple more to go , so I'll have to watch for her feeding them to find were they were put .

This has been so neat watching the process from egg to tad .


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Sweet! Congrats! Nice pics.


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Awesome I really love that Cristobal. Can't get enough of it.


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

This thread is amazing, as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for taking the time to catalog these beauties. I'm living vicariously.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Paul, Thats my favorite orange one too , the fine pattern is awesome. Too bad she's usually shy and hideing . She was one of the first pumilio I bought . I'm glad she turned out to be the one . I put four different possible females in with this orange male , nothing with the other three and the first day she was in there ... Eggs . They figured it out on the first day !

I don't know but I think I caught my esqudo female transporting tads last night . It seems they had a clutch of eggs in there that I didn't know about ! They both were together out on the end of a brom and with their weight on it it moved just enough to see a tad wiggling around that I couldn't see other wise . Either she was transporting them or they were left from before I pulled the other two from the tank and she was disposing of them so she can take care of her own ? I'm hoping for the best . If not there are two other clutches of eggs in there . I guess I have a few months to wait to be sure , since I cant see any tads anywhere .

At least its fun watching them. Better than alot of crap on TV these days , talk about reality .


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

^
Awesome man, sounds like you are well on your way now that the escuados are laying well. Even if the other tad(s) you saw are from a different pair and don't make it, it looks like you will have plenty of back-ups..


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Not much new latley , no new eggs in any of my tanks , but the two clutches of eggs in my Escudo tank seem to have been transported . Though I didn't see it happen they are all gone . The second clutch had four eggs and two went bad , the two tads that were left I'm hopeing were transported two days ago and today during work the last clutch of four tads are no longer were they were this morning . So hopefully they were safely moved also . That makes a possible seven or eight tads somewere in there . I'm sure she can't take care of all of them , I just hope a few make it . I guess i'll know in a few months .


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## jmcc000 (Apr 7, 2005)

Great thread. I have alot going on in my pumilio tanks right now also. I pulled a froglet out of one of my basti tanks and have eggs in with my other two basti pair and with my MCs. 
Must be that time of year. 
Keep the progress pics going 
Jason


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Happy Holidays all . I hope Santa left everybody a pair of Granny's And Histo's under the tree . :lol: 

Finally after a month and a half my yellow pums got the urge again and laid some eggs . I guess it's the holiday spirit or something . One clutch the day before Christmas and one the day after . ( The best gift I got this year ! ) I got to watch part of it too . It was almost like the male had the female trapped on the brom and wasn't going to let her go till she layed some eggs . I didn't see the beginning or middle but they were there on the brom leaf for almost two hours . She was sitting there trying to lay the eggs and the male was all hunched up just watching and waiting . It was almost funny . At least this time I know which one layed them .

Clutch from 12-24 looks good so far , starting to devolop . I have to use a mirror to get pictures of these . The leaf they layed on was almost vertical so I made a stainless staple to hold the leaf more horizontal so they will not fall off like my one escudo egg . 










Clutch 12-26 the ones I got to watch ( layed on the exact same brom leaf as the first clutch a month ago ) .



















Hopefully they get around to transporting some of these this time .

I've seen some courting going on in one of the other Escudo tanks so hopefully they will get it going soon too . 

Another Christmas treat I recieved , Ever since I lost one of my Intermedius I've only seen one or two of the five left out at the same time . ( who says these guys are a bold thumnail , Not mine . ) But Christmas morning four of the five were right out in front crawling across the monkey ladder . Thats the first time I've seen that many at once in months ! Hopefully the other is on there and doing good . But since I've only seen all out at the same time only three times since I got them I'm sure its OK . 

Paul , I put togather another small tank over the weekend too . I wasn't going to do it euro style but since I had most of the materials here I did it that way . So I'm going to put togather a step by step journal togather maybe this week end and put it up .


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

nice eggs  
soon you will have a broms full of tads(hopefully)


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Clever shot with the mirror! Always nice to view your updates. Glad to hear the yellow pums are breeding again for you.

Smart tip about pinning back the brom leaf. When my MCs lay on semi-vertical leaves the developing tads do seem to slide into the axils--you'd think the parents would avoid these situations...


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

pigface said:


> Paul , I put togather another small tank over the weekend too . I wasn't going to do it euro style but since I had most of the materials here I did it that way . So I'm going to put togather a step by step journal togather maybe this week end and put it up .


Awesome, thanks Mark.


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## _Enix_ (Jul 31, 2005)

Im just getting started with pums. 
This thread is fantastic! I have subscribed to it. Please, keep us updated as you have been.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

A little update for today , the yellow pums keep going at it and at it . They layed another clutch of six eggs the other day , and she is still real FAT and looks like she still has a bunch left ! Thats 3 clutches in a week so far .

The first clutch is turning into tads already 8 or 9 days old ?



















The new 3rd clutch .



















They are finding harder and harder places to lay in to get pictures of them . This one is about an inch and a half from the top glass .

They are not out and about checking up on them like they were with the first few clutches a month or so ago.

Here are a couple pictures of my other yellow pumilio male , the females are not coperating in this tank yet .



















More updates next year :lol:


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

sweet looking yellow pumilio gotta love the yellow pumilio's


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Update 1-07 ... Unforutnatly the yellow pumilio's clutch laid the day before Christmas went bad , and the clutch laid the day after went bad all except for one tad and I think it got transported yesterday . The third clutch looks like it's doing good so far , they are starting to wiggle around . 

So I'm getting ready to feed the frogs today and what do I see ...










Another six eggs , its' wierd all the last four clutches have been six eggs .












Mama is an egg laying machine ! These are in the same spot as the first clutch . She seems to use the same spots over again for laying , since two of the clutches were in the same spots she layed in before . I haven't seen the male near them yet I hope he fertilizes them . Now if only a few will stay good and fully devolop I might get some tads .

I haven't had a good glance of this female for a couple months it looks like she's ready to explode . Either that or I know where my Christmas chocolate went to . She's so heavy she had trouble getting up the background !










I haven't seen any eggs in this viv yet but I have my fingers crossed .


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

wow...that last female looks like my female tinc atm hope they dont explode lol...


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2007)

Congratulations on these! Beautiful frogs, that will most likely make beautiful froglets!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Finally some action in my other tanks ! My male spotted yellow Cristobal has been calling almost non-stop since I got him a couple months ago . 

And after much shuffeling of probable females in and out of this tank I finally just left them alone so not to cause them any more stress .





















And it paid off .

I thought I saw somthing that looked wierd on a brom leaf , like clear jello after taking a closer look there was an egg in there too . Only one , and it might not be good but at least I know there is a pair . I've had this female for four months not knowing for sure what sex it was , Finally ! They were too fat not to be female .










This must have been a practice clutch because , between this egg and lights out they liad another clutch of six eggs and they look ok .

And WoHoo. Even better news , my Red Escudos finally came through with some eggs too . :lol: I wasn't sure there was a female in this viv or not either , I knew there was a calling male but unsure of the other two. I didn't even see these eggs in either tank on first look since they are in the shadows .



















These look like the good eggs from my other pair , so I'm keeping my fingers crossed . Now all I need now is to find some eggs in my Blue Escudo tank and I'll be a happy camper . I'm still unsure on having a female in this tank but going by looks it's only a matter of time .


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

1/20/07 Well most of my eggs this last month have been going bad for some unknown reason . From about fifty eggs only three made it to tadpoles ! Two are still in the tanks , one might ? have been transported . The red Escudo's eggs went bad , but they are still laying and have another clutch going , that is good so I'm hopeing . But thats not why I'm updating . I got up late today and was feeding my frogs , and I was thinking that since there was no breeding going on in two of my other Escudo tanks I would switch the two probable females around in the tanks and try them with different males and see what happens . I guess it was lucky I got up late because look what i found in one of the tanks  



















If I got up earlier I might not have seen this and moved her to the other tank . Two nice new tads ! That would have been a disaster . I never even seen any eggs in here . I wasn't even positive there was a 1.1 , there was constant calling from the male and what looked like mating behavier but nothing positive . Awesome . I was so worried about all the eggs going bad in the other tanks and never knew there were tads in this one . So now I have just one pair of blue Escudos left that I'm not sure of , I have a calling male and another fattie paired up , so hopefully I'm not seeing in their tank what I didn't see in this tank .


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

Omg, that's sweet. Congrats dude.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Woo hoo! Super, Mark! So neat that you caught this and even got pics!


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Very nice and keep us updated on how the Escudo froglets do. Im going to have to brake down and get some of these.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Nice Mark. Congrats! If theres one thing that I think we all need to learn (myself included) is that patience really pays off. Just give them time without disturbing them and look what happens!

Keep the pictures coming!


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Bandwidth exceeded...









I hate it when that happens!


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

> Bandwidth exceeded...


This is the first time I have seen this happen. What does it mean. Sorry, don't know everything about a computer!!!!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

It means I have to spend $25.00 to upgrade my account 

Antone , patience is one thine I unfortunatly lack , I guess its a design flaw . but I'm learning .


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Can you delete some of your old pics?
All of your post have not pics.
Have you tried Imageshack? I don't think they have a band width. Correct me if I am wrong.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

His photobucket account is getting too many hits basically...


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2007)

oooo, nice tanks, beautiful tanks. I love the front opening 29 gallon tank. How hard was it to convert that one? Congrats on the tadpoles! I love the progression of pics! Congrats again!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Khamul , It wasnt that hard . You just have to be carefull taking the top plastic off and cutting the front glass out . I used a small hack saw and razor blades on the plastic top and did small sections at a time . The glass came out fairly easy with some very fine steel wire ( like .003" ) . Once thats done its basicly cutting or getting glass cut to fit making a couple vents and siliconeing it all togather .

Its like this tank I built for my rack just change the sizes of the tank materials .

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23296


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2007)

Thanks for the info! Now I have machinations in my head of things to do with giant aqauariums, :twisted:


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

I found a little woohoo this evening , While doing a little misting in my Orange Cristobal tank I noticed a little "blob" of somthing down in the front brom , so I looked in there with a flashlight and it moved ! A little tad with back legs , soooo cool. This is the only one I've been able to find . The wierd thing about this is , my cristos and my escudos laid eggs and had tads at the same time and after the cristo's transfered the tads , the next day I found a lone tad in the Escodo tank that was not transported , so I put it in a brom leaf in the Cristobal tank just for the heck of it . It just happens this is the leaf that I put it in ! So this might be a Escudo froglet being raised by my Cristobals . I couldn't see any colors on it so I guess I will not know till it hatches .  Now that I know where it is I can keep an eye on it and see how it progresses and maybe get a couple pictures of it . 

This one is about two months old , Does anyone know how long pumilio tads take to fully hatch out ?

And a few weeks ago I was complaining that I had a bunch of eggs go bad in three of my tanks . And a week or so ago I was wondering why in my yellow spotted Cristobals tank why the one female quit hanging out in the film cannister I G.S.'ed into the back wall . She was always in there . I got a little worried that something happened to her . I looked in the cannister , and it looked like it was filled with water so she didn't want to stay there now , so I looked in it with a light and mirror and there were a half dozen tads wiggling away in there . I guess I was worried about nothing . The next day they were gone , I think they were transported . I seen the female a couple days and she looked a little thinner than she has been , I guess she had been carrying around eggs for a while . 

No new eggs in the Red Escudo tank since the last two clutches dried up , I don't think they took care of them . I think that the third frog in there might have had something to do with it so I moved it to the new viv with the last one I had in quarentine . I hope that fixes things and they start careing for the eggs when the lay again . The female looks pretty fat so it should be soon .

I guess that goes to show , just because your frogs have been doing something the same way every day for months and then they stop doing it , dosen't always mean that something is wrong .


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

After being excited about finding a half devoloping tad in a brom yesterday I found something much better .

Check it out ! Myfirst froglet :shock:  :lol:  OMG , Its so TINY ! 



















It looks like my cristobals actually did take care of the Escudo tad . The other tad in there isn't close to being this far along . 

It looks like an Escudo froglet to me ? 

looks like Im going to have to start putting alot more springtails in here for a while . 

I guess these take less time to devolop than the Cristobal's because the other tad in here only has back legs so far , and they were transported within the same week . Unless this is from a clutch that I didn't know about . 

I think I'm going to leave it in here for now and see how it does .


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Awesome stuff man! good luck with that little froglet. Sorry I haven't been on for a while, I'm super busy with my animation mentor assignments right now.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Mark,

That is so, so cool!! Congrats!!


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

My first Red-Blue Escudo pair were busy little frogs . So far I have pulled one froglet from one viv and three more from the parents viv . So far all healthy and happy .

I have also found a few tads in two of my other Cristobal vivs so they seem to be good parents so far too . My yellow ones still haven't got the hang of it yet they continue to lay eggs but the tads usually go bad before they can be transported . But they keep trying .

I also found out this week that my Intermedius froglets I got this summer are not froglets any more as I found a couple clutches of bad eggs . Bad or not at least I know that they are trying . I think they might have got too wet since the cannister was on an angle and water covered them . Since they are so shy and hardly see them I haven't had any reason to think that there were any eggs in there . I've only seen any possible breeding activity once in there . But since this tank was looking shabby and needed pruning and some alge cleaned off the glass , I was in there and accidently knocked a film cannister off the glass and when I looked in it I noticed the bad eggs . I'm happy to see they they are starting to try .


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

So far the little Escudo froglets are getting bigger , three of them have almost doubled their size and are doing good. And three of the four are not shy in the least they will just stare at me when I look in or feed . And two of them just LOVE IT when I mist , If they are under the leaf pile as soon as I start misting the tank they just bolt out and soak it up and one likes to climb up on the cocoa hut to get more mist . It's so comical . No new pictures though , It seems the camera is always some were else when they decide to show themselves .

Full moon again , that must mean something to my frogs . Up and attem time ! 

The Escudo's laid a new clutch of eggs a week after the froglets started popping out . Nine eggs ,their biggest clutch yet . Although five went bad , she just dropped off five tads in the broms today !  They didn't waste any time starting up again .

Freshly laid eggs . 2-23 










Tads waiting to be next on her back .










Going fer a ride .



















For some reason these tads look to me smaller than the ones the other pair deposited a month and a half ago . It might just be my imagiation .

I was doing some work on my new rack and I'm glad the noise didn't disturb her moving the tads !

The yellow pumilio keep laying more eggs trying to get some to transport and it looks like they finally got a couple ready to go these are the first to get this far without dying ,I'm keeping my fingers crossed . Only two made it of the five , she laid seven more a week after these and all of them went bad .

Fresh Eggs. 2-23
I found my closeup adapter for my macro so I got a fairly nice closeup of these . 










Tads 










I finally got a semi decent picture of the cristobal tad I have growing , this was deposited a couple of days before the the Escudo tads that just came out . I'm guessing these take quite a bit longer to grow compared to the Escudos ? 










And finally , two of my Intermedius spent half of yesterday and part of this morning in a film cannister, literally. That seems alot of time for four eggs . These are to my knowledge their third clutch . The first two went bad I think from water covering them in the cannister because the cannister was on a steep upward angle ( just guessing here ) so since then I tilted the cannisters a little on a downward angle so they drain. I'll see if this helps . I guess it could be also that they are new to breed andit might take them a few times to get it right . 










I hope they are good .


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## the_noobinator (Jan 14, 2007)

geez! do you play r&b in this room 24/7 or something?


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2007)

And an eclipse to top it off!!! You know I've noticed my little male Basti likes to sing more right before the full moon. Hmmmmm.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

I haven't updated this thread for a while ! And for obvious reasons nothing was happening except bad egg clutch after bad egg clutch . I guess I should be just happy that they are laying .
Finally !!! A real woo hoo . After checking all the "Cristobal" tanks day after day looking for good tads My Yellow "Reticulated" Cristos do me one better , a Froglet !!! Finally . 

At first It didn't even look like a frog more like a dead leaf or something . But on closer examination It started looking like one but it almost looked like it was dead by the way it was laying but after touching the brom leaf a he hopped off , diving for the protection of the leaf cup , Phew . I'm so psyched . Finally a froglet from something other than my Escudos. It's tiny too , not that much bigger than the scudo froglets are when they come out .

And I was complaining the other day to Stace that I wished that something other than the Escudo's would give me some froglets . I guess it's pretty bad when you wish your Escudo's would quit producing froglets ( knock on wood  ) I didn't mean that !

Another ask and you shal receive moment . Did I mention I'm happy :lol:


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## abarrera2 (Sep 13, 2006)

Sweet.... I to just found a froglet in my cristo tank still half in the brom leaf cup with a lil bit of tail left. The eggs were laid between 4/18 and 4/20. Which would mean a short morph time compaired to my bastis. When where yours laid?

Antonio


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Antonio , I didn't even know there were any good tads in the viv ! Every time they got to the point of transportation they would dye or the parents would just let them sit and mold over . It kept pi...ing me off seeing the tads wiggling there only to die . These eggs must have been hidden somewhere I couldn't see them . This pair is my most active laying pair , It almost seems there are eggs always in the tank at one stage of devolopment or another . There probably has been at least four clutches in the viv while this froglet was devoloping . And the female is always huge she almost looks deformed a tiny head and a huge back end ! So I have no idea how long it took to go from tad to froglet . 
Yours came out in what nine weeks ? I thought I read somewere that it was around three months for these guys ? Thats only a week longer than it takes my Escudo's , exactly two months give or take one day .


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

It must be froglet season  Three single froglets found in three weeks and from three different pairs . First ones from each pairs too .


You think she has some eggs in her belly ?








Fancy meeting you here .








Case in point from my last comments , devoloping eggs on the brom in the forground and them in the background going at it .








and the aftermath .









I still haven't seen their froglet again since . I hope it wasn't a figment of my imagination . 

Well this one isn't ! This was from the first pumilo's I ever bought and untill today they were a 1.0.2 now they are at least a 1.1.1 :lol: .
They were sold to me as fine spot Cristobals not sndf's imports though . I only seen the male call once and have never seen eggs in their tank either . So seeing it came as a complete suprise . 










Size comparison with a month old Escudo froglet on right . I thought cristobal froglets would come out a little larger ? This one looks a ruby red color and the parents are orange , I guess it will fade as it gets older ?










I found him in my 90g. hopping right in front of the door , or I never would have seen it .

An older picture of one of the parents . I'm guessing one of the females ??









Alot going on in the frog room lately !


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