# grain mites



## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

Are Grain mites harmless to your fruit fly cultures? I have never heard of a separation of types and thought all mites are bad. I was informed about grain mites after receiving a culture from a vendor that had more mites than fruit flies and told they do nothing..


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

eyeviper said:


> Are Grain mites harmless to your fruit fly cultures? I have never heard of a separation of types and thought all mites are bad. I was informed about grain mites after receiving a culture from a vendor that had more mites than fruit flies and told they do nothing..


I recently had this same experience and was told the same thing. And like u, i was always under the impression that a mite is mite. (Maybe we purchased from the same vendor? ... PM me n let me know)


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

No one else? Grain mites? bull or no bull? I have never had mite issues before so to be honest have never spent much time researching them, if any. Everyone says mites are unavoidable....not in my experience so far so a bit surprised I received such a culture.


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## mockachild (Apr 19, 2011)

Hey I received cultures from a vendo who told me the same thing but the mites compete with the FF for the media and the mites always win. I had to buy new cutures 3 times already because my cultures crash quickly.....


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## SNAKEMANVET (Dec 14, 2011)

I just recieved my cultures and they are infested with mites also.I am now getting ready to make new cultures.I was very upset getting flies with mites.I am thinking about sending them back,I haven't opened the cultures yet.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Are you guys using mite paper?


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

goof901 said:


> Are you guys using mite paper?


I use the mite spray that i got with my fly kit.
But besides the fact, mite paper or not, these were all NEW cultures ... so mite paper/spray is irrelevant at this point.

From talking with everyone thru PMs ... it looks like we have all ordered from the same vendor.

Doesnt the website say "guarenteed mite free"? So in that thinking; grain mite or not it shouldnt b happening ... and it seems like when we all complained we all got the "grain mites r ok" response.

Bc of the refusal to make it right, i will no longer b purchasing ff cultures from this vendor.

Ill find somewhere else to get them. 

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right?"


And we cant even post the name of the vendor bc then a certain mod will give us an infraction for voicing it. So its a catch 22 ... such BS. I love this board, but the politics here piss me off sometimes.

Nick


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## SNAKEMANVET (Dec 14, 2011)

Same here,can't keep them out when they arrive already infested.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I've gotten cultures with mites from a vendor as well, in fact 3 different vendors. All were just grain mites. I was able to get the cultures to the point where they are virtually mite free but following a few simple steps.

1.) ALWAYS use mite paper or spray.
2.) Do not let cultures touch.
3.) Make cultures from your newest producing culture.
4.) Dust flies before adding to a new culture.
5.) Throw cultures older than 30 days away or move away from other cultures.

Following these cultures helps me keep mites in check and all my cultures produce very well, that being said, I am considering though, trying some of the Tedion products to add to cultures to kill mites. I know a few mites are still around in my cultures because my face is a little itchy after interating with them and this drives me nuts.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Just like any mites, grain mites will compete with your flies and maggots for resources. The vendor in question does NOT state a mite free guarantee, but still, it's too bad they have chosen to turn their back to the problem.
Here is a cut and paste of some PM's I have exchanged with somebody, that may help with future problems.


_The fruitfly cultures came from xxxxxxxx. I mean the culture is loaded full of them.They are only in the produceing culture,I haven't seen any in the starter culture._

_Unfortunately, I hear that a lot when a place produces a lot of fly cultures. I would be willing to bet they will show up in the new, non-producing cultures too. They would have been treated the same way. You are better off looking for a culture to start with from a local you trust. Then culture all your own. Always control...keep the on mite paper. When you start new cultures, dust the flies you are using heavily and then just use the top flies. (feed your frogs with the lower ones) This helps knock some of the mites off of the flies._

_Thanks Doug,what should I use to dust with.I don't know of anyone local who is produceing/selling flies.I will send them a email today about the culture,I am not mad just alittle upset to start off with mite infested flies._

_
Just a superfine powder. It's the dust you are looking for in this case, not the nutrition or vitamins it supplies. The finest dust I know of is Repashy Calcium Plus. When my repashy Calcium Plus gets old, I save it for just this purpose. Oh, another mite control method is this. Mix up your culture with everything EXCEPT the top sprinkle of yeast and the flies. Microwave it till really hot. I go about 6 minutes for 5 cultures. This kills any mite eggs.
_

edit: Looks like Doug beat me too it!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

SNAKEMANVET said:


> Same here,can't keep them out when they arrive already infested.


Unless you run sterile cultures (which means you are removing mites and/or thier eggs from the flies under a microscope before placing the flies into a new culture as well as using autoclaved media and mite paper) you can't avoid mites in the cultures. The best thing you can do is manage them to minimize any impact from the mites. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> 3.) Make cultures from your newest producing culture.


Care has to be taken when doing this otherwise you will rapidly select intolerance for culture conditions in the flies. What this means is that the cultures will crash after the first emergence from the pupa. See this thread and references http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/42419-genetics-ff-culturing.html 
It is a balancing act but you want to use flies from more than one emergence ideally. 



ZookeeperDoug said:


> trying some of the Tedion products to add to cultures to kill mites. I know a few mites are still around in my cultures because my face is a little itchy after interating with them and this drives me nuts.


People often make claims that any itchy feelings (or allergic responses) must automatically be due to the mites when it could just as easily be due to the fruit flies (not free access but see Respiratory allergy to laboratory fru... [J Allergy Clin Immunol. 1986] - PubMed - NCBI as one example) or even other things like different yeasts or fungi growing in the cultures... 

As for using products like Tedion to "eliminate" all of the mites, I invite those with that view to do a google scholar search on Tedion resitance in various mites (across a number of genera of mites ). 

Some comments,

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

eyeviper said:


> No one else? Grain mites? bull or no bull? I have never had mite issues before so to be honest have never spent much time researching them, if any. Everyone says mites are unavoidable....not in my experience so far so a bit surprised I received such a culture.


 
A wise old time frogger (not me) once said "If you think you don't have mites in your fruit fly cultures, it means you haven't looked hard enough." 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mockachild said:


> Hey I received cultures from a vendo who told me the same thing but the mites compete with the FF for the media and the mites always win. I had to buy new cutures 3 times already because my cultures crash quickly.....


Unless you have enormous numbers of mites, the crashes are probably more likely to be due to genetics or enviromental factors. For example, using only the first emergers (or using flies that someone else has done this with the flies) breeds intolerance for conditions in the cultures that appear during the growth to the first emergence from the pupae. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Gamble said:


> And we cant even post the name of the vendor bc then a certain mod will give us an infraction for voicing it. So its a catch 22 ... such BS. I love this board, but the politics here piss me off sometimes.
> 
> Nick


Actually you can leave feedback to this effect in the vendor feedback section of the forum. It is there for a specific purpose to document issues. 

Ed


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## bobrez (Sep 10, 2011)

My take is too nuke the media excelsior coffee filters before adding flies. I think that that would help alot, i do this an havent had problems yet. If starting with mite infested cultures it would be hard to eliminate, but possible


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I've easily cleaned them out of my cultures a couple times over the years.
You don't need mite spray or powder or paper. Just dust your flies heavily and transfer them to a new cup before dumping, leaving all the excess powder in the first cup(maybe do this a couple times for heavy infestations). Always use the first hatch from your cultures to produce new ones, I've been doing this for 15 years. Don't have your cultures in a room w/ a rug. Set your cultures on a countertop and spray the surface often to wipe clean. This is what I've done and I know it works. Just made cultures 10 minutes ago and spent 5 minutes inspecting the culture and couldn't find one mite. Also use good sealed potato flakes. the bulk boxes leave much more room for picking up mites in the media mix. If you get the cheapest mix, expect it to have a possibilty of having mites. And if you only put in a dozen flies it leaves the culture open to being overtaken by something else by extending the culture "life".


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## rahunt2 (Jan 4, 2009)

Yeah, I went a long time without grain mites until I switched from wingless to flightless. Now it seems I can't find anyone whose cultures don't have them. I tried to get rid of them once but if the vendors keep having them then I don't see the point.
I have made hundreds of cultures with the mites and honestly I don't see a difference in productivity with the mites. The mites only seem to get out of control after the fruit flies crash.
I also know that mites make up a huge portion of wild dart frog diets so I just consider them another food source, a little enrichment. I see them eat the mites and I am okay with it.
Now when grain mites get into your springtail cultures that is another story. I had tons of springtails crash because of mites.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

rahunt2 said:


> Yeah, I went a long time without grain mites until I switched from wingless to flightless. Now it seems I can't find anyone whose cultures don't have them. I tried to get rid of them once but if the vendors keep having them then I don't see the point.
> I have made hundreds of cultures with the mites and honestly I don't see a difference in productivity with the mites. The mites only seem to get out of control after the fruit flies crash.
> I also know that mites make up a huge portion of wild dart frog diets so I just consider them another food source, a little enrichment. I see them eat the mites and I am okay with it.
> Now when grain mites get into your springtail cultures that is another story. I had tons of springtails crash because of mites.


 I'm on the same page as you. Every fruit fly culture I have ever made or used has had grain mites in it, and I can still feed my entire collection (currently 46 vivs, mostly tincs and leucs) on 12 hydei cultures. The only time mites have been an issue is when I let the cultures dry out.


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

bobrez said:


> My take is too nuke the media excelsior coffee filters before adding flies. I think that that would help alot, i do this an havent had problems yet. If starting with mite infested cultures it would be hard to eliminate, but possible


This is what I do too, Nuking them seems to work a charm.


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## Are2 (Jan 14, 2012)

How easy for grain mites is it to establish themselves in a vivarium environment, and what would be a common food supply found in a vivarium that could support a population?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

You'll get mites colonizing the tank regardless of what you do... 

Ed


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