# Ripped Off



## polishpower (Dec 25, 2012)

Hello
I ordered a dwarf white isopod culture, springtails, and bean beetles for around $40 + shipping. I tried to set it up to get the order when the weather was kind of nice in Ohio. But something came up and they weren't able to ship till the following week. When I got the shipment their was no movement out of the springs or isos. So I figured maybe they have to warm up for a bit. I emailed the sender right away. He told me to wait 24 hrs. So I did and still nothing except mites in the springs. I ask about them and he said that they are fine for your animals and don't ruin anything. But I don't have mites now so why would I want to introduce them. He then told me he would give me a voucher for my next order. But why would i order from them again if this experience was so bad. Today i asked for a refund or the Bugs and have not gotten a response. I was wondering what you guys think i should do? This is terrible business in my opinion. I guess I will just have to go to the bank and see if I can get my money back some how.
Thanks 
Nic


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Make a vendor feedback thread of the sender. I'm sorry about your bad experience with them.
Buddy


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That is a poor business practice. He's kind of taking advantage of you being new, too. Maybe he/she figures you are new and not even allowed to leave feedback yet?
I can't help with your bean beetles, but *I* will try to make good on *their* ripoff. I'm offering you a free white isopod culture and a free silver springtail culture if you can cover my shipping rates. PM me.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

The OP will need to get to 25 posts firsts - but agreed.

Hopefully something can be worked out with the Vendor.

s


Buddysfrogs said:


> Make a vendor feedback thread of the sender. I'm sorry about your bad experience with them.
> Buddy


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

As always Doug is being amazing.. go figure. lol. You will not be disappointed in dougs insect cultures.. So take him up on his offer..


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## polishpower (Dec 25, 2012)

I don't want anything for free but i will buy some from you Doug i appreciate the offer though.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Doug has the best bug cultures anyway.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

frogparty said:


> Doug has the best bug cultures anyway.


Doug that was more than generous of you. Shows there are some high quality vendors on this site. Also I did not even think to check his post count for vendor feedback. OP keep an eye on that and when you get 25 posts make sure you make a thread, if he comes through and makes good on it write it in the thread. Let people know he made good on it. If he doesn't, write it.
Buddy


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## polishpower (Dec 25, 2012)

I will put something good about them if it happens but I doubt that will. So until I get up to the 25 posts people can PM me if they want to know who it was. I'm not one to throw people under the bus but what goes around comes around.


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## azn567 (Jan 11, 2013)

That is too unfortunate. Thats why I have only bought in person so far


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

If you really feel funny about it, I understand, but we have all received freebies in the hobby before. I was given about 300 dwarf white isopods for free before I ever sold a single bug. We just pay it forward. Take the offer and pay it forward some day, to someone else.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I only buy bugs from 2 people here and you know who you are.
If you want you can shoot me a pm and let me know who this is.
Thanks.

John


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> If you really feel funny about it, I understand, but we have all received freebies in the hobby before. I was given about 300 dwarf white isopods for free before I ever sold a single bug. We just pay it forward. Take the offer and pay it forward some day, to someone else.


^ I agree

Think about taking up Doug's offer. He really is just nice like that. In fact, a lot of us got things for free and we pass it along to others. Don't let this bad experience sour you to the hobby. Lots of good folks around here that are willing to help out.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

I feel for you...$40 + shipping is quite a bit to end up with nothing. And I don't understand why anyone would think that when you end up with nothing the first time that you would want to come back and order from them again! Or maybe they're hoping you won't and just forget about the whole thing. (Which is a dumb thing to do in the long run.) :/

Not to step on Doug's offer, but I noticed that you're in Ohio...if you're not far from New Philadelphia, you could swing by my place one day and I could give you one of each of what you ordered. That way you wouldn't have to even mess with shipping.


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## polishpower (Dec 25, 2012)

Thanks for the offer Wendy but i took Doug up on it and ordered more of course ( can never have to many) but i appreciate it im trying to get a couple of different bugs going beans isos and springs so i can return the favor in the future to someone that needs them


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Well, I'm glad to see you're getting them from someone who can at least be trusted this time. Doug will pack them well for you. 

Still...if you're ever in the neighborhood...give me a holler. It would be nice to talk frogs.


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## polishpower (Dec 25, 2012)

Definitely Wendy I'm new but it it always nice to hear others peoples experiences with frogs


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I have a feeling I know who it is. I had a similar experience with some lesser wax worm cultures. Can you pm me who it was? I am.curious.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

The seller has been named in PMs. Apparently this is not a one time thing. Oddly, there is no bad vender feedback.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

There is another thread that opened up in the last few days that is saying hoe there order was messed up.
Buddy


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## senditdonkey (Jan 19, 2013)

frogface said:


> Oddly, there is no bad vender feedback.


That is interesting. Same with a few vendors that have less then positive reputations.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Buddysfrogs said:


> There is another thread that opened up in the last few days that is saying hoe there order was messed up.
> Buddy


Yes, but they listed a vendor name, which made it feedback on the open forum. It has been shut down and pulled.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

To those who feel they have been ripped off by a vendor, you will be allowed to leave bad feedback in the feedback section, after you make your 25 posts and get approved.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

That's correct,and it seems that the members involved have a bit less than 25 posts.If anyone has had similar bad deals please pm me and let me know who and what has gone down.

Thanks,
Lou


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

So a sponsor gets to keep ripping people off till the newbies get enough posts to leave feedback? Thats kind of lame.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

He sent me wax worm.cultures that had about two moths in it. Said give it time. Months later I said still nothing. He accused me of wanting freebies. Then gave me the voucher code and upped the price of them on his website. So would still cost me money plus shipping. Shipping is outrageous by the way. Also said he had an employee who made my cultures incorrectly....yet somehow I still have to pay for replacement. Some pretty nasty emails I got from this guy.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

NathanB said:


> So a sponsor gets to keep ripping people off till the newbies get enough posts to leave feedback? Thats kind of lame.


And, unfortunately, it's going to be mostly newbies who are at risk of unscrupulous bug venders, as the vets will already have their stock of bugs.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I have been looking into it which is why I'd like to have pm's from anyone with similar issues so we can straighten this out.Don't mention names on the thread,pm me.


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## gosaspursm (Mar 12, 2011)

There is negative feedback for this vendor on the board. I know because I left it.  But.... there are two vendor feedback threads for this company. Depending on which one you encounter you may have different expectations. Perhaps they can be merged into one?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I looked earlier and only found 2 positive feedbacks.I'll look into that,if there are 2 separate vf threads, I'll merge them into one.Thanks for the info.pm me with what name you left it under please.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Merged,there is only one vf thread now!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

You rock Lou!


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Doug, As a newbie, I really appreciate the offer that you made to this gentleman. It's a classy move and you deserve to be commended. I will be PMing you in a couple of days to discuss a new bug order.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

polishpower said:


> I will put something good about them if it happens but I doubt that will. So until I get up to the 25 posts people can PM me if they want to know who it was. I'm not one to throw people under the bus but what goes around comes around.


Too many people have this mentality. If you have a good experience with someone, leave feedback. If you have a bad experience with someone, leave feedback. If you don't you're kind of screwing your fellow hobbyists and it's completely unfair to allow everyone else to have bad experiences and then (if not allowed then at least to yourself) say, "saw that one coming." So many of these issues could be preemptively resolved if people just had the courage to state factually their exchange experiences.

Doug, kudos... Although at this point I'm kind of used to those offers coming from you


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I have been told that if you leave bad feedback, and the vendor actually makes good on it, the mods will allow you to change your feedback. 
I'm of the opinion that the proper thing to do is to contact you vendor and give them a chance to make it good. Everybody has accidents. I have shipped a couple of orders that showed up dead (gasp!) and I appreciate the chance to be able to make it right. If the vendor does not quickly make it right, bad feedback should be left! It helps your friends and it helps the hobby.


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## polishpower (Dec 25, 2012)

This was the only thing I can do at this point to warn people. So I hope this helps someone else. Also I have not received an email back from them since last Thursday. So I don't think that they are planning on doing anything to make this right. But you live and learn and after this and the help of you guys ( Especially pumilo) I have learned to ask around more before placing orders with people. Thanks again for your help guys


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## BugginDave (Oct 11, 2011)

Wow, I'm really sorry to everyone about this. I was not made aware that Nic was so unhappy with his order, we issued the store credit, as is written very clearly in our Terms and Conditions of Service, and didn't hear anything about all of this until Kyle made me aware of this thread. We do what we can to make everyone happy, but when winter hits, problems can happen with shipment, and I don't think Nic realizes that due to his newness to the hobby.

Link to our Terms & Conditions:
http://www.smallpetfeeders.com/content/3-terms-and-conditions-of-use

Again, really sorry to everyone, if I knew Nic was so unsatisfied, I wouldn't have left it be, as it is our norm to issue store credit for any partial DOA's to clients. This is because we don't use cheap USPS shipping, but only ship through Fedex services, usually being Fedex 2 Day Air which is 2-4 times as expensive as USPS sometimes. This actually usually ends up in a high success rate with very few dead arrivals at all. 
We have since added a 10-Day Forecast chart to the checkout page to help clients pick the correct shipping method for the insects that they have ordered.

I would like people to view our Feedback thread in the VF forum (or my personal one), especially the final poster who thought originally similar to Nic, but we assured them it was alive, and he found that to be true, when he originally was disappointed. We stand behind our products, and my word is good.

Nic and I are reconciling the case now. If anyone else has any issues with previous orders, please bring them to my attention at [email protected] or you may contact me via Skype (smallpetfeeders), or call us at 678-331-8420, you will find that if you speak to us directly and make your situation and feelings known to us, or me directly, I will help resolve the issue. I'm actually a licensed massage therapist, so you'll find me to be very cordial and empathetic to your problems.

I look forward to hearing from anyone else that had an issue, as I think many people have not attempted to make me directly aware of their feelings instead of unloading on a messageboard like this or otherwise keeping quiet about it. Please give me a chance to make it right.

Thank you.

-Dave Cross, LMT
CEO/Managing Member
SPF


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Tried that. Got no where....blamed it on an employee yet I still was expected to pay for.shipping of replacement. Admitted to.messing up yet didn't make it right. Empathetic.....haha is that what you call accusing me of wanting freebies?


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

I respect the fact that you come forward and make your intentions known, but this is far from the first time i have seen experiences just like this from your customers. What are you doing to avoid stuff like this? It seems to me that you place blame on the customer, saying you never heard from them, when they say the exact opposite. Sorry mods if this is out of line, but this seems to be a common occurance with this vendor.

Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Nic, care to speak up on this? Do you really feel he has made good by you? Or did somebody else have to take care of this problem?


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## BugginDave (Oct 11, 2011)

mydumname said:


> Tried that. Got no where....blamed it on an employee yet I still was expected to pay for.shipping of replacement. Admitted to.messing up yet didn't make it right. Empathetic.....haha is that what you call accusing me of wanting freebies?


This was written in the Terms and Conditions you agreed to before purchasing. And we make it very clear instead of hiding it in small fine print as with most companies...
http://www.smallpetfeeders.com/content/3-terms-and-conditions-of-use

Honestly I'm willing to make revisions to previous business done, all I've tried to do from the start was run a sustainable business, and that is increasingly difficult in the live insect business. If you can wait for Fedex Ground to be applicable for your shipment, I will send you replacements for whatever you're speaking of.

If you contact me through email, I will help you solve your previous issue.
-


papajuggalo said:


> I respect the fact that you come forward and make your intentions known, but this is far from the first time i have seen experiences just like this from your customers. What are you doing to avoid stuff like this? It seems to me that you place blame on the customer, saying you never heard from them, when they say the exact opposite. Sorry mods if this is out of line, but this seems to be a common occurance with this vendor.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk 2


We continue to try to listen to what our customers are actually saying, as we are only human ourselves, trying to learn the best way of operating a sustainable feeder business while appeasing everyone. To actually avoid issues like this, we've had programmers install a 10-Day temperature forecast to our checkout page, making it easier to know what shipping method will end up in the best outcome. We're not trying to blame it on the customer, we do want to educate customers though on the correct shipping method for their area of the country, as too many people who live in Michigan (for example) expect a Fedex Ground package full of live insects to arrive safe and sound in the middle of winter with 5 feet of snow on the ground. To avoid these issues, we're continuing to work on a new module that will suggest the correct method for the type of insects in your cart.

We have had a few DOA's this winter unfortunately, but overall 95% of our shipments made it just fine. I think this is really a case of dissatisfied customers are more likely to post feedback than satisfied ones.


All I'm trying to do is solve this for everyone, so please, if you have an issue, send me an email or give me a call and I'd love to assist you.

-Dave
SPF


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

BugginDave said:


> We have had a few DOA's this winter unfortunately, but overall 95% of our shipments made it just fine. I think this is really a case of dissatisfied customers are more likely to post feedback than satisfied ones.
> 
> I honestly dont feel this is the case. There are pages upon pages of good feedback on this site, and few instances of bad.
> I also know people who havent left any feedback on the site that warned against doing business with you. I am not trying to be an a**hole but it seems like you have more instances of making up a bad transaction, than successful ones. Personally i dont feel safe doing business with you. I am one to give the benefit of the doubt but i see no point. I think you should focus more on your end of the deal i.e. actually shipping quality feeders on projected shipping dates than showing people the forecast to choose their own shipping date.
> ...


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## Ebiforest (Jan 25, 2013)

polishpower said:


> He told me to wait 24 hrs. So I did and still nothing except mites in the springs. I ask about them and he said that they are fine for your animals and don't ruin anything. But I don't have mites now so why would I want to introduce them.
> Nic


This is the most concerning to me. We all try to avoid mites as they can crash both springtail and fly culture.


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## polishpower (Dec 25, 2012)

I did try to contact you and never got an answer back. Until somebody with more knowledge then I made it a point to help the new people out. Thanks A LOT for your help you know who you are. He has emailed me today and offered to send replacements but with the weather the way it is and them not using insulation or heat packs I don't see anything different happening. It took me posting on here and him having to deal with all of these complaints before contacting me that is the part that amazes me.


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## BugginDave (Oct 11, 2011)

papajuggalo said:


> BugginDave said:
> 
> 
> > We have had a few DOA's this winter unfortunately, but overall 95% of our shipments made it just fine. I think this is really a case of dissatisfied customers are more likely to post feedback than satisfied ones.
> ...


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## BugginDave (Oct 11, 2011)

polishpower said:


> I did try to contact you and never got an answer back. Until somebody with more knowledge then I made it a point to help the new people out. Thanks A LOT for your help you know who you are. He has emailed me today and offered to send replacements but with the weather the way it is and them not using insulation or heat packs I don't see anything different happening. It took me posting on here and him having to deal with all of these complaints before contacting me that is the part that amazes me.



"It's been 24 hrs since I received my shipment and the springtails and isopods are still dead. I would like a refund for those two please. 
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android"

That was the last email I received from you, which I issued a credit voucher for your two items on your SPF account after. That should have sent you an email, and I never heard anything further. Next thing I know, I had Kyle emailing me a link to this thread.

If you would have made your issues with the store credit known, I would have been able to do something, but you're right, we don't use the styrofoam insulated boxes which are bad for the environment, opting for recycled newspaper and magazines instead. 

We ship packages all week long, so one DOA every couple of weeks is not a bad rate, especially when shipping to Ohio, which is subfreezing most winter.

Sorry you had a bad experience, contacting me first would have facilitated a better resolution.

-Dave


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Nic and/or PolishPower gets his chance to answer this question - then we're closing it.

I'd really prefer no more comments except for Nic and/or PolishPower please.

s


Pumilo said:


> Nic, care to speak up on this? Do you really feel he has made good by you? Or did somebody else have to take care of this problem?


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

I would just like to add that i am not trying to hurt daves business, nor start a witch hunt. I apologize if i handled myself unfavorably. My only intentions are for everyone to be successful, customer and vendor alike. I would gladly do business if these problems were reconciled and i see good transactions made. Sorry dave, scott, and everyone if my responses offended anyone. Feel free to delete scott, just want to make my intentions clear.

Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk 2


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Nothing personal Dave - but your customers are not paying for mites. Live, dead or otherwise.

If that's ALL they received - there is an issue with the shipment and I understand their ire.

Again - I'd just like to hear from the two people (Nic / Polishpower) who have been addressed by Dave in his last post.

That's it.

s


BugginDave said:


> papajuggalo said:
> 
> 
> > ... These were harmless mites that do not infest fruit fly cultures. Springtails were fine when they were shipped, and were very active, probably causing them to crash from the CO2, but honestly if Nic would feed the current cultures he has, they would come back to life.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I ordered fly pupae....they arrived as flies and dead. He said that they were sold as flies, despite the fact that the website and invoice both said pupae. Regardless, they were still dead. Also said "They probably hatched before I got them to the Fedex store honestly" so we went back and forth with him saying I didn't order pupae but then he said this, makes no sense.

My lesser wax worm cultures came with about two moths and that was it...nothing ever happened with them. Unfortunately don't have the email where he said a new hire made them....but I have other emails including my response to this one....so his new hire made a bad culture...and I am supposed to pay to get what I ordered to begin with. 

Oh, right...."and I can only assume you’re just looking to get a freebie when you received a perfectly usable product, that being the hatched flies."

Hahaha they were dead dude. How are they useable. Why would I write emails back for a freebie if I received the product I wanted. I don't need freebies. I just wanted what I paid for. "This isn’t my first time around the block, Greg. I get it, everyone likes freebies" 

Wow.

Here's another good quote, "We do have the best insects in the business, and if you give us a chance to make this right with you by ordering your next food order from us, so we can put your replacements in the box, we’ll make sure you end up with a package you’ll be very happy to receive."

Why would I place a second order when the first still wasn't resolved? He kept pushing for me to do an extra order and order more. 


There is my experience. Still have the two wax worm cultures from my order last summer, still nothing going on in them, not even dead bodies. Still have the voucher codes....why would I want to pay shipping again for something they couldn't get right the first time? I wouldn't. 

I don't have the dead flies though.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Scott, I was writing that when you must have posted. I think it is relevant as he specifically addressed one of my prior quotes though.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Agreed Greg.

But no more please.

s


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## BugginDave (Oct 11, 2011)

papajuggalo said:


> I would just like to add that i am not trying to hurt daves business, nor start a witch hunt. I apologize if i handled myself unfavorably. My only intentions are for everyone to be successful, customer and vendor alike. I would gladly do business if these problems were reconciled and i see good transactions made. Sorry dave, scott, and everyone if my responses offended anyone. Feel free to delete scott, just want to make my intentions clear.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk 2


I have no ill will towards anyone here. All of you are only doing as your heart tells you to do, I would have it no other way.

It's hard to hear some of this, because honestly I take great pride in making Small Pet Feeders better everyday, and the only way I can make it better is if I can understand what I am doing wrong.

So please, all of you, always be honest with me, as I have not told a single lie myself. If you ever have a problem with the way your order turned out, calling me directly is ALWAYS the best way to resolve the issue, as I think hearing a person's voice rather than reading their messages has a better quality of communication to it. You can hear truth in a person's voice, and I personally enjoy working with each of my client's closely personally.


And Scott, I realize that, and I fully intend on replacing the culture. It's just a case that I issued the store credit, and with no objection from Nic, I thought everything was ok, as most of our clients are fine with just adding any feeders that didn't make it to the next order, but I can certainly understand how a new frog owner would want his order fulfilled correctly before placing another order. Typically a lot of my business is with Bearded Dragon and Chameleon owners, who order quite often, so this isn't usually an issue.

-Dave
SPF


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## BugginDave (Oct 11, 2011)

mydumname said:


> I ordered fly pupae....they arrived as flies and dead. He said that they were sold as flies, despite the fact that the website and invoice both said pupae. Regardless, they were still dead. Also said "They probably hatched before I got them to the Fedex store honestly" so we went back and forth with him saying I didn't order pupae but then he said this, makes no sense.
> 
> My lesser wax worm cultures came with about two moths and that was it...nothing ever happened with them. Unfortunately don't have the email where he said a new hire made them....but I have other emails including my response to this one....so his new hire made a bad culture...and I am supposed to pay to get what I ordered to begin with.
> 
> ...


Greg, please call me or email me. I will get you some replacements. Are you speaking of Blue Bottle Flies? We no longer carry those due to them hatching even before we received them from the farm, so I can only imagine how many of them arrived dead.

If you give me a chance to resolve it with you, by emailing me the list of what you were out last order, along with your shipping address, I'll remove the store vouchers and ship your order when it will arrive safely via Fedex Ground.

Let me know.

-Dave
SPF


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

We are going to close this thread.

Another Mod has previously asked that you contact him with unresolved issues here.

Please *DO *it if you think this applies to you.

s


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