# Difference between hydei and melano media?



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I know there is a difference between the two (want to say the hydei requires more protein maybe?), but ingredient wise, what is the difference? What is the added ingredients in hydei media and if anyone wants to post their hydei media recipe that would be great too!


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Ive taken Josh's frogs melano mix, and made it with concentrated grape juice instead of straight water (watered down the concentrate a little bit), and had fairly good production.


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

Brewers yeast, is the ingredient you've got to have for the Hydei. Also, Mold inhibitor/Vinegar. Since it takes them longer to develop, molding is more of an issue with Hydei.

Heres a recipe I have been usingsorta stole it from Marty) Works great! Thanks again!

1 cup hot water
1 cup vinegar*
mix together the liquids, throw in microwave on high for about a minute (makes mixing a snap), then *whisk* in:
1/2 cup brewers yeast
1/2 cup sugar
once its mixed up good. (foamy) add:
1 1/2 - 1 3/4 cups Potato flakes, *let stand for 10 minutes to thicken*, it should be the same consistency as applesauce. If not add more water/vinegar, let stand 10 minutes. If its too runny, add more potato flakes, and let stand again for 10 minutes.
pour about an 3/4"-1" into each cup.
Pinch of activated yeast.
Add Excelsior.
Makes about 6-7 cultures.

*If using Methyl Paraben as a mold inhibitor, instead of vinegar use 1 3/4- 2 cups water.

Good Luck! :wink:


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

OK, so I'm conused. Almost every melano recipe I have seen (in history and in a thread a little lower entitled bulk media recipes or something) has had brewers yeast listed as an ingredient... how is that the difference in the hydei mix if both the melano and hydei mix have it? I mean, for it to be the difference between the two they both can't contain it...


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Good questions Stace.
I have never been able to raise Hydei in the normal FF culture (the same one listed above). So there must be a "secret ingredient" that the hydei like. I gave up trying to raise them.


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

I don't think all pre prepared (commercial) media has brewers yeast. Some probably does. I have had great success using the above recipe for Melano, and Hydei.
I was told by one of the major fly media sellers on this board (PM me if you need their name), that Brewers yeast is the key ingredient for success with Hydei cultures, so thats what I use. It has worked better than I could have imagined, with more Hydei than I can ever use. I only have a few frogs that are even large enough to eat them. I have even been feeding the larvae out of a few cultures to my Vents & Lamasi, to keep the cultures from being over run, and crashing. Not sure there is any other "secret ingredient", IMO, but this has worked great for me!


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## hoyta (Jan 18, 2006)

*hmm*

I'd say 99% of commercial media has brewers yeast.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I have reared both species successfully using the same media both together and seperately.. 

I use a 50/50 mix of Carolina media with the standard replacement recipe for Carolina.. One bag of Carolina media then goes a long long way... 

Ed


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I use the same media for both and have since I started. I know others who do the same. Right now my media is an unknown mix of the standard flake, sugar, brewer's yeast, and methylparaben and production is plenty fine for me.


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

Wow. Lots of theories above, but some down right crazy!

Hydei sturdivent (It's official now) lack certain enzymes needed for breaking down yeasts, and starches. ED's hydei mix is a totally different media, as it should be, as it contains different stuff. "Secret ingredient"? Yes, you bet. Don't believe me? Try some of ours.

Drosophila melanogaster do have the enzymes needed and can work on our hydei mix. But all that extra is not needed, and that is why our regular recipe is cheaper, and better for them. I honestly do not know how many of our competitors (sp?) sell a Hydei mix if at all. But there are differences.

If you need to add grape juice or vinegar to the media you are using then STOP! That stuff is c-r-a-z-y, and a complete waste of your time. Grape juice+sugar+yeast=alcohol. Happy frogs for sure! Either the right amount of sugar isn't being added or the right amount of mold inhibitors isn't. Get a different supplier or change your recipe, because that stuff is not helping you, and if you think it is, trust me, there is better stuff out there.

I went to a school that was HEAVY into entomology. The media we manufacture was almost my master's thesis. I have a good friend who makes a living as a genetic entomologist (bug designer) for a biotech company. He also helped us with our media and uses it in his lab. So here us my point. If you can produce Hydei in good enough numbers and the media you use works well, and feeds your frogs, then that's awsome. If not, or you're unhappy with it. I have to stress caution when making your own or buying stuff in a ziplock bag. You can screw up the health of your frogs and fly stock by adding junk willy-nilly. We use mold inhibitors in our media, and we sell methyl-paraben. It's a pretty good mold inhibitor (BUT YOU HAVE TO DOSE IT RIGHT). So when you add your stuff together experiment a little before hand. I know for a fact that we all want to do what is best for our frogs. But feeding a serious matter, and while there are some great media recipes out there. Some of the proposed recipes out there simply lack merit.

Android1313-The yeast answer someone gave you is WRONG. I would like to know who told you that. And if you'd like I can give you data why.


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## Stavros (Apr 9, 2007)

ED's_Fly_Meat_Inc said:


> Wow. Lots of theories above, but some down right crazy!
> If you need to add grape juice or vinegar to the media you are using then STOP! That stuff is c-r-a-z-y, and a complete waste of your time. Grape juice+sugar+yeast=alcohol. Happy frogs for sure! Either the right amount of sugar isn't being added or the right amount of mold inhibitors isn't. Get a different supplier or change your recipe, because that stuff is not helping you, and if you think it is, trust me, there is better stuff out there


Ed, can you enlighten me on the negatives/disadvantages for using vinegar? I know its probably not the right tool for the job, I know many recipes I found online call for a 1:1 ratio with water to reduce mold. So far I have been using a .25:1 vingar water ratio and have had no mold or vinegary smell, GREAT production for over 6 weeks now (gonna pitch the culture as soon as I feed of the rest of the adults which are still big even after 6 weeks)


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

Dave, so you DO use a "secret ingredient" in your media besides brewers yeast and methyl paraben? While I would be interested in what it is, I don't really need to know, as I have stated, I am using the same media for both Hydei & Melanogaster, and I have had very good results. 

I first heard (on frognet, a few years ago) that brewers yeast was the "key ingredient" to culturing Hydei (aside from mold inhibitor). And I recently heard the same thing from someone who routinely sells their media to people on this board.

The same person I heard it from on Frognet, also mentioned he had input from you on this mix. And it uses both vinegar and grape juice.
Heres a snip.



> have been using a mixture of potato flakes, sugar, and Fleischman's activated yeast for years now. But, after adding a lot of mouths to feed to my collection, I had decided I was going to have to find something that made a lot more flies per jar. With input from a lot of different sources (Dave and Erin, Tracy Hicks, Jutti,) etc , I have composed a mush that has QUADRUPLED
> my fly production. I have had very little problem with mold, and the cultures seem to last for at least a month or longer.
> 
> In a pot bring the following to a boil.
> ...


Dave are you telling me that brewers yeast is NOT the key ingredient?
If it is not the key ingredient, then is it the "secret Ingredient" you mentioned? If it is a such a big secret, what is in everyone else's Hydei media :?: 


Respectfully,


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have yet to see a recipe for FF media that DIDN'T include brewer's yeast. It and sugar are the two most common ingredients regardless of the type of FF being produced. It is not a secret ingredient by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

I didn't say it was the "secret ingredient". I said it was the "KEY" ingredient. As you mentioned, along with sugar, potato flakes, etc... Dave said he has a "secret ingredient" in his though, and I want to know what it is!
I add more brewers yeast to my Hydei mix, that is what has worked for me.


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## Stavros (Apr 9, 2007)

I have never used brewers yeast in any of my cultures just bakers yeast, and they are producing heavily, with only a few starter flies put into each new culture. I started off with those wingless fruit fly cultures from petco, I am not sure which strain they are.


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

Before people pile on, let me say first and fore most that there are lots of fruit fly recipes out there. Some work, some don't and if you have one that works well for you, that's fine. Especially here the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."



> Ed, can you enlighten me on the negatives/disadvantages for using vinegar? I know its probably not the right tool for the job, I know many recipes I found online call for a 1:1 ratio with water to reduce mold. So far I have been using a .25:1 vingar water ratio and have had no mold or vinegary smell, GREAT production for over 6 weeks now (gonna pitch the culture as soon as I feed of the rest of the adults which are still big even after 6 weeks)


Vinegar is acetic acid. A basic old school mold inhibitor. Some fruit fly companies recomend this in their cultures. My point was that, if they recommend this, then they are cutting corners. Is that what YOU want? No way. However, if you are making your own, and getting GREAT production then that's great. I'm a saleman for sure, but one thing ED's will never do is sell you something you don't need. 



> Correct me if I am wrong, but I have yet to see a recipe for FF media that DIDN'T include brewer's yeast. It and sugar are the two most common ingredients regardless of the type of FF being produced. It is not a secret ingredient by any stretch of the imagination.


This is true, but it is NOT a secret. _Drosophila_ is latin for "Dew Lover" Way back when men in togas watched these guys they assumed that these flies were eating fruit. The truth is that they are eating yeast growing on fruit. If your mix lacks it then you are missing something important.



> Dave said he has a "secret ingredient" in his though, and I want to know what it is!


Ah that's a trade secret, and one that has put us on the map. We've been making it for 10 years now so we must be doing something right. But to say that, yeast is the difference in Hydei and Drosophila culturing. Well there is no data to support that.


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

I figure that more yeast = more protein. And it has been said that more protein is beneficial to Hydei health and production. Is this not true?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Actually protien is a limiting nutrient in D. melangaster cultures as well. This is why there is protien in the ff culture mixes. 

As it is a limiting nutrient the more that is present the more flies that can be produced when compared to a culture that isn't supplemented with fruit flies. 
This does not mean that you cannot produce flies from a culture that does not contain brewer's yeast, you can. The yeast and bacteria that comes in on the feet of the fly, will grow in the culture and provide food but this takes time to get established and grow so the yield of flies is less and possibly slower.. 

A different Ed


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

> As it is a limiting nutrient the more that is present the more flies that can be produced when compared to a culture that isn't supplemented with fruit flies.


LOL, I tried supplementing a culture without fruit flies once but it didn't work so well.  

Hey where'd my cup of coffee get to?

  

EricG.NH


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Ya know, when I was debating on whether or not to post this thread I was kinda leaning towards this being a dumb question that everyone knew the answer to. As it turns out, there are lots of differing opinions and methods as well as some very useful information here, so I am glad I posted it afterall. Thanks to Dave and Ed and all the others that have contributed... and Dave, I would love to know the secret ingredient too! There's a five spot in it for ya.... :lol: :wink:


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I tried growing Turkish gliders in media consisting solely of potato flakes, sugar, and whatever yeast the flies brought in. I think buy now it is obvious that the maggots were unable to get enough protein as they were always wandering around and ended up simply dying at small sizes. Adding nutritional yeast or brewers yeast chnged that and now I am getting good production.


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

> I think buy now it is obvious that the maggots were unable to get enough protein as they were always wandering around and ended up simply dying at small sizes. Adding nutritional yeast or brewers yeast chnged that and now I am getting good production.


I was always told to never question good fortune. However, yeast will feed your adult flies, the potato flakes are a good starch and that's what they are after. That being said, yeast is not a bad idea, but I would question if that's why your maggots were dying. Still, if your production is up then keep doing what your doing.


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

I have been making MANY different recipes for fruit flies.. over the past 20yrs or so when I started culturing and all I ever had was Carolina flakes that turned blue when you added water... I had about @50% success rate with this recipe, whether I made it too dry or never added enough flies or added them after their peak productive period in their lil lifespan... well then many other recipes started popping up all over.. I've tried the one listed on a previous reply in this subject.. that one works quite well... I've substituted my own ingredients after realizing what these frogs needed.. from flat soda as a sugar/liquid to potato flakes, brewers yeast.. to mashed bananas and ground oatmeal with a bit of bakers yeast. and for a while I was grinding up cantelope, bananas, oranges, apples mango and any other fruit that my grocery store would sell discounted.. etc... etc.. and I even tried a piece of yeast liquid that my friends mom has that's been around for about 9yrs she said.. She makes sourdough bread with it.. and they seem to relish that... (mine has since died off) but I'm always up for new recipes.. or ideas.. Oh PS, Whenever I get flies from Dave (ED's FlyMeat) their production is usually booming so he's gotta be doing something right... Peter Keane, JungleWorld


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## girlfrog (Dec 19, 2006)

I second Peter's comments.


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

^I second you're avatar! :wink: (B.P. Rules!)
I have used Ed`s, and used it exclusively for years. Always worked great, but I have been trying to cut my costs a little lately by making my own, and have had great success. (so far) :wink:


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