# can i culture springtails in miracle gro organic potting mix?



## Bryanmc1988 (Jun 22, 2014)

culturing springtails on miracle gro organic potting mix?


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## InvertaHerp (Mar 4, 2013)

I wouldn't. The fertilizers in that wouldn't be safe for the springs or frogs they're fed to.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Jun 22, 2014)

so where can i find cheap ingredient to make some ABG substrate?


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

IMO the best way to culture spring tails is in charcoal. Goto home depot and look for cowboy charcoal, crush it up and put it in their containers. Then just lay food on the top which can be as simple as bakers yeast or kitchen scraps.

With charcoal mites do not seem to take hold as easily. With ABG or soil if mites get in they seem to find whatever they need and be impossible to remove. On top of that one of the largest advantages to spring tails is their ability to float which makes them incredibly easy to feed out if you use a substrate that is large enough to sink.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> so where can i find cheap ingredient to make some ABG substrate?


ABG is a premium soil less mix used by The Atlanta Botanical Gardens, its namesake. Depending upon your definition of cheap you may find it impossible to make a premium mix from cheap components. That being said, and for springtails, I concur with charcoal.


EDIT: Thanks, Radiata! I keep forgetting to mention sponsors! They are important to us all.


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> so where can i find cheap ingredient to make some ABG substrate?


Why not buy it pre-made? A number of our sponsors carry it:

Search results for: 'abg'

New England Herpetoculture LLC - Vivarium Substrates

Substrate - ABG Mix


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## Bryanmc1988 (Jun 22, 2014)

radiata said:


> Why not buy it pre-made? A number of our sponsors carry it:
> 
> Search results for: 'abg'
> 
> ...


from my calculations i would need about 6-7 gallon worth of substrate... that runs around $35-45 so wouldnt it be wiser to order and make my own as it comes out to be about the same price and i would have lots extra if i was to make it my self...?


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> from my calculations i would need about 6-7 gallon worth of substrate... that runs around $35-45 so wouldnt it be wiser to order and make my own as it comes out to be about the same price and i would have lots extra if i was to make it my self...?


How many springtail cultures are you planning? That's a lot of ABG, about a cubic foot worth.


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> from my calculations i would need about 6-7 gallon worth of substrate... that runs around $35-45 so wouldnt it be wiser to order and make my own as it comes out to be about the same price and i would have lots extra if i was to make it my self...?


There are at least 5 ingredients to the mix. And, I doubt that you know the ratios of the 5 ingredients to each other. (Starting with, "is the ratio by weight or by volume?") If you actually do know, you're left with the task of obtaining the ingredients in quantities (volume/weight?) that will allow you to make the ABG mix without being stuck with leftover partial bags of various ingredients. 

Be my guest and do the math... If you go the DIY route - add in a factor for the procedure being a little bit messy. Please, let us know how the numbers work for you...


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Recipe is pretty easy: ABG mix is 2 parts tree fern fiber, 1 part peat moss, 2 parts coco fiber, 1 part charcoal, and 2 parts orchid bark.



radiata said:


> There are at least 5 ingredients to the mix. And, I doubt that you know the ratios of the 5 ingredients to each other. (Starting with, "is the ratio by weight or by volume?") If you actually do know, you're left with the task of obtaining the ingredients in quantities (volume/weight?) that will allow you to make the ABG mix without being stuck with leftover partial bags of various ingredients.
> 
> Be my guest and do the math... If you go the DIY route - add in a factor for the procedure being a little bit messy. Please, let us know how the numbers work for you...


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## Bryanmc1988 (Jun 22, 2014)

aspidites73 said:


> Recipe is pretty easy: ABG mix is 2 parts tree fern fiber, 1 part peat moss, 2 parts coco fiber, 1 part charcoal, and 2 parts orchid bark.


yep i already know the mixture but there is different versions of the mix people do also... 


the abg was going to go into my vivarium for the dart frogs... and some to a springtail culture also lol


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

aspidites73 said:


> Recipe is pretty easy: ABG mix is 2 parts tree fern fiber, 1 part peat moss, 2 parts coco fiber, 1 part charcoal, and 2 parts orchid bark.


Is your recipe by volume or weight?


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

radiata said:


> Is your recipe by volume or weight?


Volume

All anyone does is take any object and scoop, 2 scoops of that, 2 of this 1 of that etc...


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## cml1287 (Mar 29, 2012)

radiata said:


> There are at least 5 ingredients to the mix. And, I doubt that you know the ratios of the 5 ingredients to each other.


little condescending, no?


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## Bryanmc1988 (Jun 22, 2014)

i mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the mixture and how to measure it out... but more of where to get all the items needs for a cheap or fair price...


anyways back to topic... it seems like no one locally here in san diego ca has any tree fern fiber or even knows what it is when i called most of the nursery here... does anyone have a good link to a cheap price for this stuff? also should it be a fine or medium size that i should be looking for...


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Weight or volume doesn't matter. That's the beauty of ratios! Pick one, use for entire ratio, obtain proper mix.



radiata said:


> There are at least 5 ingredients to the mix. And, I doubt that you know the ratios of the 5 ingredients to each other. (Starting with, "is the ratio by weight or by volume?") If you actually do know, you're left with the task of obtaining the ingredients in quantities (volume/weight?) that will allow you to make the ABG mix without being stuck with leftover partial bags of various ingredients.
> 
> Be my guest and do the math... If you go the DIY route - add in a factor for the procedure being a little bit messy. Please, let us know how the numbers work for you...


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

This link should help you out! It's always worked for me! 

Cheapest tree fern products





Bryanmc1988 said:


> i mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the mixture and how to measure it out... but more of where to get all the items needs for a cheap or fair price...
> 
> 
> anyways back to topic... it seems like no one locally here in san diego ca has any tree fern fiber or even knows what it is when i called most of the nursery here... does anyone have a good link to a cheap price for this stuff? also should it be a fine or medium size that i should be looking for...


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

cml1287 said:


> little condescending, no?


cml1287,

No, I don't think I was a little condescending. What I did leave out (and should have included) was the many hours I spent searching the Internet looking for the original ABG formula. I never did find the original formula (and would greatly appreciate any links to it). Some posters have suggested a 1:1:1:1:1 ingredients ratio by volume, but this is not what I found in my search.

I'd post what I found, and do indeed use myself, but I'm sure I'd be told in this thread that my formula is "wrong, wrong, really wrong"...

Perhaps ABG formulas are akin to FF culture media formulas --- if it works for you, use it!

Regards,
Bob


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

aspidites73 said:


> Weight or volume doesn't matter. That's the beauty of ratios! Pick one, use for entire ratio, obtain proper mix.


Well I wouldn't go that far for instance in this case weight and volume of something very light like milled sphagnum could be a large difference while other materials might be closer in density. I am pretty sure it was always done by volume because that was simple and accessible by anyone working with it. 



radiata said:


> cml1287,
> 
> No, I don't think I was a little condescending. What I did leave out (and should have included) was the many hours I spent searching the Internet looking for the original ABG formula. I never did find the original formula (and would greatly appreciate any links to it). Some posters have suggested a 1:1:1:1:1 ingredients ratio by volume, but this is not what I found in my search.
> 
> ...




There is most likely an original ABG mix, I am not sure why it is so hard to find perhaps just call the ABG and ask. Its actually kind of funny that ABG mix seems to have gained more fame and use in the herp hobbies than people care about in tropical plant care. Ultimately though amendments and alterations are going to be common due to cost, accessibility of materials, and desired properties. I like to raise orchids and other plants so having the individual components is great if you want to decrease or increase moisture or cater to smaller or larger plants. Its also nice to be able to make a micro niche in the vivarium for a specific plant. 

That said IMO the largest difference in mixes I have seen is not from different ratios but rather different properties and qualities of material. I received a couple bags of ABG from one well known vendor and everything in it was just smaller. The charcoal chunks the tree fern fiber and the fir bark. And it just stayed much wetter almost soggy. I got couple bags from another vendor and it had much larger pieces of everything drained way better and IMO seemed like a much better mix for my purposes anyway the both costs the same amount. 

Now I amend my own substrate mix which I do not call ABG mix. That said they all grow plants. 

There are other threads here on ABG mix feel free to post up your recipe and discuss.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Pubfiction said:


> Well I wouldn't go that far for instance in this case weight and volume of something very light like milled sphagnum could be a large difference while other materials might be closer in density. I am pretty sure it was always done by volume because that was simple and accessible by anyone working with it.


That was a rather careless mistake on my part. Thanks for the correction!


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Pubfiction said:


> That said IMO the largest difference in mixes I have seen is not from different ratios but rather different properties and qualities of material. I received a couple bags of ABG from one well known vendor and everything in it was just smaller. The charcoal chunks the tree fern fiber and the fir bark. And it just stayed much wetter almost soggy. I got couple bags from another vendor and it had much larger pieces of everything drained way better and IMO seemed like a much better mix for my purposes anyway the both costs the same amount.


Thank you for that rather interesting observation! Care to share vendor info?


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> i mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the mixture and how to measure it out... but more of where to get all the items needs for a cheap or fair price...
> 
> anyways back to topic... it seems like no one locally here in san diego ca has any tree fern fiber or even knows what it is when i called most of the nursery here... does anyone have a good link to a cheap price for this stuff? also should it be a fine or medium size that i should be looking for...


Have you found a good/inexpensive source for milled sphagnum moss? I've bought the moss from the Home Depot and milled it in a small coffee blender. The milled product takes up a lot less volume that the moss out of the bag. And, the process is a little tedious. Perhaps I need to use a (larger) Bass-O-Matic blender next time?

Here's one source for milled sphagnum - Sphagnum - Milled - but I have no idea if the price is high or not...

Exo Terra sells bags of tree fern substrate (in a number of different sizes) - Exo Terra Tree Fern Tropical Terrarium Substrate (BAG 3.6 QT) - Tree Fern | Josh's Frogs

Josh's Frogs also has their own tree fern substrate: Josh's Frogs Tree Fern Substrate (10 Quarts) - Tree Fern | Josh's Frogs


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## CAPTAIN RON (Mar 29, 2010)

Unfortunately,the Exo Terra tree fern is no longer available.It was some real good stuff!


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Going back to the original question, the answer is yes. Weather you should or not is up to you. But the reason i say yes is because i went to use some miracle grow soil that had been left outside yesterday and there were tons of black springtails. They seem to really like it. I checked the ground around the bag and didnt find nearly as many springs. I scooped out some soil from the bag to culture so hopefully i can use these bugs as a founding stock to start future cultures on safer substrates.


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