# New insect fly cup lids



## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Anyone have experience with these new lids? No fabric, just a few hundred tiny holes.


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## toostrange (Sep 19, 2013)

I got some at Tinley show. I thought I would like them,but the larva can fit half way thru the hole. Seemed to plug a lot of them. I actually had high hope's for these. But personally was disappointed and have since went back to the fabric ones.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks,
That was one of my concerns. How was the humidity level? Looks like it would be higher.


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## toostrange (Sep 19, 2013)

Imo that could be part of my problem, higher humidity. I keep my culture in sterilite drawer system. So think larva were moving higher in cup to dry out there fore plugging holes. So maybe they would work better on shelf out in open.


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

Wouldn't mite control be an issue with these?


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## thumbnail (Sep 18, 2005)

I have had a few cultures where the larvae have crawled and got stuck halfway in the holes, but the rest have worked just fine. I do keep mine in sterilites to keep the humidity levels. I did find that if I add alot of excelsior wood(3 quarters of the way up the cup worth) they do not go all the way to the top. Another option I am going to try is cut back on the moisture level a little bit to see if that keeps the maggots from wondering as much.


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## kiyitec (Mar 29, 2009)

I just logged in to search this subject. Flyers must have laid eggs in the openings... all of my wingless cultures have a few flyers. I had just switched to the pierced lids. Same temperature, humidity, care and etc as before.
I had high hopes for them, too.

(Stray gliders X wingless???)


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

kiyitec said:


> I just logged in to search this subject. Flyers must have laid eggs in the openings... all of my wingless cultures have a few flyers. I had just switched to the pierced lids. Same temperature, humidity, care and etc as before.
> I had high hopes for them, too.
> 
> (Stray gliders X wingless???)


If you have both wild flies and wingless melanogaster in the same culture, the next generation will be mostly fliers as the flightless gene is recessive. 

I've thought about using those lids, but I think they may be more trouble than they are worth. They are more reusable, but there is the chance of contamination from wild fruit flies.

John


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Dev30ils said:


> Wouldn't mite control be an issue with these?


I don't think there would be any difference in mite issues. The fabric lids are definitely not mite proof. I can certainly see that these holes are large enough for wild flies to drop eggs thru. They definitely look more durable than the fabric lids.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

While I have not tried the new lids, I have to agree with Kevin. I'm not sure a fabric lid even slows mites down much. They come and go as they please, unless you take proper precautions to keep mites in check.


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## Kas (Oct 6, 2013)

I just ordered a supply of lids and the ones with holes were received. They seem kinda flimsy and it's difficult getting the lids off of the cups. I don't like them.


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## kiyitec (Mar 29, 2009)

John, 
I didn't count but I would say every wingless culture had between 5-20 fliers. I was assuming wild eggs laid at the holes or rouge glider eggs previously. 
Again, high hopes for better/easier reuse, but I think I will be switching back.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I've been using these lids for a few months now and am very disappointed with them overall. My main gripe is the fact that I get plugged holes and some larvae have actually hatched out through the top of the lids. I've had some cups become sealed enough that the flies die out completely. I understand mites are always going to be present and are manageable however; I have never had mite problems like I have with these lids. That being said, I hope my culture supply supplier reverts back to the mesh tops. Until they are offered I am switching vendors. 

Pictures are photos of a clogged lid and a culture that suffocated.

















-Christian


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

I also ordered my standard order of 250 cups and lids and received these lids instead of the fabric ones they always sent in the past. When I contacted them they said these were their new lids and they would not be going back to the old fabric style. All of my cultures now have the holes filled with maggots who climb half way through and plug them up causing lots of culture crashes. Needless to say I will be ordering my supplies from a new vendor in the future. Really disapointed... Hopefully they see this thread and rethink the change in product.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

SnakePaparazzi said:


>


I need a vomit smiley. Geez!


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

These lids are no good for my uses. I usually boost my cultures with some heat and they lack the air exchange compared to the cloth types, also these donot fit the reusable 32oz cups. 

This seems to be a bad call in effort to save money. They obviously are much cheaper than the cloth lid and are still the same price from a couple vendors  That brings up some questions.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I ordered 500 of these, hoping to last a while as well as share with locals and also got these lids. I am less than thrilled with them, but So far I have not had the issues with maggots. I was told mine are a new design with smaller holes. Time will tell.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

I have been using them for a little over a month now. I have yet to have any issues. I got mine from Joshs, while they are not the ones i wanted they seem to work just fine.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Aldross... I didn't have issues for the first few weeks... It was about 30-40 days in that I really started to notice problems.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

I just placed an order for some cups with the fabric lids. I have had some maggots get through those on a few occasions if the conditions weren't quite right for them. 

I really don't want cups with open holes. I hope every supplier doesn't end up going with those new lids.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

SnakePaparazzi said:


> Aldross... I didn't have issues for the first few weeks... It was about 30-40 days in that I really started to notice problems.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you saying the issues started after the culture aged and the flies were becoming smaller?
Yesterday was my first toss out from those lids. I let them produce for 4 weeks but no longer. I could see that when they get to that point of smaller production it could become an issue. I will continue to keep an eye on it to make sure i don't get overrun. I have been seeing good numbers from them at least. That could also be due to going to a temperature controlled storage case at the same time.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

All my cultures go to the trash on the 30th day (mite control)... 1/2 - 2/3 of my cultures' lids get plugged by maggots between 14 & 20 days with these new lids.


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## zaius (Feb 21, 2008)

I first tried these lids sometime last spring and they didn't work at all, wild small flies could squeeze through the holes and make all the flies start to fly.
Also maggots would get stuck in the holes and the whole culture would start to rot and smell. I believe because there is too much humidity and the maggots start to travel up the culture.

But.. I have found away to make these lids work really well..even better then the fabric lids.
You need to modify the lids by cutting out the centre hole in the lids and using coffee filter first then the lid.
This works really well,I've been using them ever since with no problems.
No need now to clean the lids ,just through away the coffee filter and replace it with a new one.

Here's some photos of the modified lids.


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## Kas (Oct 6, 2013)

I haven't yet thrown my new lids away so will try the coffee filter method. Still like the fabric lids better Thanks for tip.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I ordered 500 of these, hoping to last a while as well as share with locals and also got these lids. I am less than thrilled with them, but So far I have not had the issues with maggots. I was told mine are a new design with smaller holes. Time will tell.


If they have smaller holes, there better be a lot more of them or you'll run into high humidity problems.



zaius said:


> But.. I have found away to make these lids work really well..even better then the fabric lids.
> You need to modify the lids by cutting out the centre hole in the lids and using coffee filter first then the lid.
> This works really well,I've been using them ever since with no problems.
> No need now to clean the lids ,just through away the coffee filter and replace it with a new one.


If they have to be modified, we may as well just get standard lids without the ventilation holes.



The manufacturer of the fabric lids started using a cheaper fabric that wears out way faster than the original lids from a few years back. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/123825-polypro-vented-lids-quality.html

So far my impressions are that these lids work very well for bean beetles. They are way easier to wash and more durable than the fabric lids. As mentioned earlier, adding a lot of excelsior seems to help, along with slightly less moisture in the media.

I still think there is a business opportunity for someone who can make a better lid, several large holes covered with tyvec might be just the ticket and mite proof.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Reef_Haven said:


> If they have smaller holes, there better be a lot more of them or you'll run into high humidity problems.


Yep, already an issue, and I even planned ahead thinking of this by making the media drier than usual.

I'm this || close to sellin these to someone who is willing to take a flier on them or use them for something else like bean beetles and buy more fabric lids. Fortunately for now I have about 50 or so fabric lids that I can wash reuse for a while. I do have one local shop that buys about 10 cultures a week from me. I may just reserve these kids for them and hope that they don't take issue with them.

I'm really not pleased at having to rework how I do cultures because of this change. Again, not knocking the supplier. I should have noticed and I take accountability for rushing through the purchase process.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

As of tonight I would like to recant my being ok with these. The maggots from the ones I made 2 weeks are moving to the holes. They weren't like that Sunday. Sigh


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

MELLOWROO421 said:


> I also ordered my standard order of 250 cups and lids and received these lids instead of the fabric ones they always sent in the past. When I contacted them they said these were their new lids and they would not be going back to the old fabric style. All of my cultures now have the holes filled with maggots who climb half way through and plug them up causing lots of culture crashes. Needless to say I will be ordering my supplies from a new vendor in the future. Really disapointed... Hopefully they see this thread and rethink the change in product.



Add me to the group of people that got a suprise when opening their order (500 in my case). I really hope the vendor offers a refund, I'll be sure to let you guys know how it was handled...


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

zaius said:


> But.. I have found away to make these lids work really well..even better then the fabric lids.
> You need to modify the lids by cutting out the centre hole in the lids and using coffee filter first then the lid.
> This works really well,I've been using them ever since with no problems.
> No need now to clean the lids ,just through away the coffee filter and replace it with a new one.


I have been doing the same thing, but I have not cut out a hole in the center lid. I just place the lid over the coffee filter. I thought maybe I would suffocate
the flies or it would be to humid but it works very well for me. However its an extra step that I don't need to do with the fabric lids. I started doing this when some type of thin black fly started getting in the new lids and breeding in my cultures and the fruit fly production became horrible.


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## zaius (Feb 21, 2008)

srrrio said:


> I have been doing the same thing, but I have not cut out a hole in the center lid. I just place the lid over the coffee filter. I thought maybe I would suffocate
> the flies or it would be to humid but it works very well for me. However its an extra step that I don't need to do with the fabric lids. I started doing this when some type of thin black fly started getting in the new lids and breeding in my cultures and the fruit fly production became horrible.


I did that at first,just using a coffee filter and the lid..for me it didn't work it became way too humid and the larva died especially hydei cultures which produced a lot of larva fast but the larva all died and became a stinky mess.


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## thumbnail (Sep 18, 2005)

I still have not had an issue with them. Yes I will admit a few holes get clogged by maggots, but only on the rare occasion I do not add enough excelsior. All the containers I have used so far that have excelsior almost to the top of the cup have not had a single clogged hole, but the ones that are only half or so get a few clogged holes, but nothing to have a problem with. I do about 15 to 20 cultures every 14 to 18 days. I am liking the punched tops over the filter tops. The big plus I am finding with them is the air flow. Another option you could use is buy 32 oz. culture cups with solid lids, and cut a circular hole in the middle and get some open cell foam to put in the hole. Works great and the cups can be used many times over same cannot be said with the foam so buy a good amount of it so you do not run out.


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## Halter (Jul 28, 2012)

I acquired one from a friend. Needless to say I had about 300 flies crawling out of the holes in my frogroom. 

Never again.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Looks like Superior Shipping is still carrying fabric lids, if anyone is having trouble finding them.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

What maggots are plugging the holes? All or just wingless?


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

cbreon said:


> Add me to the group of people that got a suprise when opening their order (500 in my case). I really hope the vendor offers a refund, I'll be sure to let you guys know how it was handled...


Just a follow-up, the vendor that I bought the new lids from had them picked up today and offered a refund. They were really good about offering a refund and taking them back no questions asked. I'd imagine they're getting a couple complaints based on what I'm seeing in this thread. Fortunately I wasn't in immediate need for containers and bought them ahead of time. I just ordered from another vendor, not much more for the fabric lids and they should be here by this Friday.


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## thumbnail (Sep 18, 2005)

Here is some of my cultures with the new lid. Other then the culture mentioned before that had maggots get stuck literally all the new cultures(two in the pics are at 34 days with lid pics, and one fresh to show how much excelsior I use) do not have the issue others are having problems with. I think before you give up on these lids maybe tweak the level of excelsior or other medium you are using for the culture. Another big factor maybe too much humidity or to moist of media itself. I honestly love the new containers, and will keep using them. I keep all mine in sterilites and a huge wooden reptile incubator with just the fan on for circulation. As mentioned above once I used the right amount of excelsior and the humidity levels were tweaked I have not had a issue. 
fresh culture

Next few are 34 days old. Side views and lid view.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm not willing to spend more money using extra materials... Just going to find the mesh lids I was using before. I've already secured a new source.


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## thumbnail (Sep 18, 2005)

Forgot to add I have not had a single mite in my cultures. I never had mites before though when I had cloth containers. I do keep the shelves and sterilites cleaned and sprayed every few days with mite spray.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

For those who live in areas where phorid flies are common, don't be surprised to find the phorid flies colonizing the cultures. Phorid flies will readily deposit eggs in the holes so the maggots can migrate down to the culture. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

I have tired afew different configurations with my way of culturing and these are no good for my needs. The airflow is dismal compared to the polyfabric lids based on making new cultures. I cleaned out a couple older cultures and started new ones with both lid types. I dialed the water back a bit in the batch of media and still got a bit of condensation in the new ones. Scraped them and went lower temps and higher airflow and got no condensation, so a bit slower but got it working.


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## oscar c (Dec 2, 2014)

i agree with ed i also seen flies on top of the lid depositing eggs in my cultures i now have cultures with fliers in it.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

I must also express my displeasure with these new lids. Hate to break from my vendor but....


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm really hoping Josh's Frogs is aware of this thread so that they are aware of the dissatisfaction of their customers. Not sure I'm allowed to mention them specifically here...


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

I make my own by cutting a hole in the lid of the plastic containers and hot glue horticultural row cover fabric over the hole. Cheap and easy and the fabric can be replaced if your so inclined (I'm not that green yet lol).


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

I've also hot glued quilt batting over them and in glass jar lids I put holes in. That works well too and would be to thick for wild flies to ever get eggs in the culture but still nice and airy.


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## amgini (Jun 10, 2011)

I've also been making my own by cutting a hole about 2” in diameter and then cut a strip of filter foam, roll it up and stuff it in the hole. It's very easy to make and is working great. You can vary the size of the hole depending on your air flow and moisture need.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I have tried these for a few months now. Initial problem was with melanos and if I stacked the cultures. That has been the only time larvae have climbed through the holes. I have never had an issue with the hydei.

They are very easy to clean, however after a few uses the lids become very loose and the larvae can climb into the rim, not completely through....at least not yet. The lids if bumped can easily be raised enough to let flies out. So as far as them being too hard to open, they loosen up after opening once or twice.

They are much easier to clean and cheaper then the paper ones. I may continue using these for hydei and am debating for how much longer for melano.


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

I use a pre made media and I couldn't control the moisture with these lids. The holes would plug with maggots and next thing I new I had fliers. here in Texas there is always fruit flies buzzing the bananas or apples. The mesh lids never gave me these troubles.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Changed vendors and found one who carries the mesh lids... Now that my mature cultures are all mesh lidded, I'm getting much better fly production... I also have much fewer mites and the media isn't getting nasty as fast 


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

mydumname said:


> I have tried these for a few months now. Initial problem was with melanos and if I stacked the cultures. That has been the only time larvae have climbed through the holes. I have never had an issue with the hydei.
> They are very easy to clean, however after a few uses the lids become very loose and the larvae can climb into the rim, not completely through....at least not yet. The lids if bumped can easily be raised enough to let flies out. So as far as them being too hard to open, they loosen up after opening once or twice.
> They are much easier to clean and cheaper then the paper ones. I may continue using these for hydei and am debating for how much longer for melano.


I've gone through a few lifecycles now with these lids and I share Greg's observations as well:
stacking 
easy cleanability
loosening over time
My feeling right now is that I like them. I have plenty of fabric lids in circulation, so performing a A/B comparison is in the works.
My biggest concern is the loosening of the lids over time-- if this trend continues, its back to fabric for me.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

SMenigoz said:


> I've gone through a few lifecycles now with these lids and I share Greg's observations as well:
> stacking
> easy cleanability
> loosening over time
> ...


I did switch back to the fabric lids for my melanos and am still hanging in there with these lids for hydei. The melano larvae can squeeze between the loose lids and the deli but I haven't found it to happen YET with the hydei. We shall see.


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## Gary_Whitmore (Aug 18, 2014)

If anyone is interested you can pm me I have some screen mesh to make your own lids if you do it right you can get to live out of one screen let me know if you're interested


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## FrogBoyMike (Aug 25, 2012)

I also wanted to say that I was very unsatisfied with these lids. 
My main issue was also that if they are stacked the smaller maggots do tend to get out. True I could just not stack them.... but then they are taking up more space.
Also had issues with a lot of flyers..... not fun at all.
I wanted to try to send them back but life gets crazy and I just never did lol.
I think I will for sure try this coffee filter idea. Thanks for the tip.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

I've found them to hold too much moisture in the more humid months. Had several cutures turn to soup during the season change


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## Evanelectric77 (Mar 17, 2015)

SnakePaparazzi said:


> Changed vendors and found one who carries the mesh lids... Now that my mature cultures are all mesh lidded, I'm getting much better fly production... I also have much fewer mites and the media isn't getting nasty as fast
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What vendor was carrying the mesh lids


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

Josh at Genesis exotics has the good lids


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## toksyn (Mar 5, 2011)

Ed said:


> For those who live in areas where phorid flies are common, don't be surprised to find the phorid flies colonizing the cultures. Phorid flies will readily deposit eggs in the holes so the maggots can migrate down to the culture.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


All of my cultures are getting contaminated with phorid flies using these new lids. I have to start over with hydei at this point. I keep the cultures in less humid areas / open to airflow to prevent maggots from crawling through the lids, and also keep on beds of diatomaceous earth and have never had problems with mites. These phorid flies are absolutely devastating though as they completely take over my cultures.


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