# Amphibians at Repticon? Tampa, FL



## epicfroglover99 (Nov 9, 2021)

I recently purchased tickets to Repticon, Tampa for this weekend Nov 13 and 14. I wanted to take a look at some new frogs and see if I could purchase any for an enclosure I'm working on, but I look at the vendor list and the whole show is almost entirely ball pythons? Of course it is a reptile expo, but from what I saw, every single booth is ball python breeders, with a couple of inverts sprinkled in. Will I be able to see amphibians there? lmk your experiences with amphibians at repticon, thanks.


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

I would be careful buying dendrobatids from a reptile expo. If you plan to, do extensive research into the seller before going to the show. 
I have hated a lot of expos lately because of their lack of species diversity. I think the hobby of herpetoculture is being corrupted by mass morph-breeding. I have nothing against reptile morphs, but the way they are dominating the market at the expense of the animals frustrates me. I absolutely love herpetoculture, but wish people were more focused on conservation and the propagation of species in need of stable captive populations.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I like reptile expos. I vend a couple, and sell a lot of animals there. They're fun, too.

That said, it is harder to purchase responsibly from an expo than having animals shipped to you. All the same research into sellers must be done, all the same research into species to be purchased must be done, and on top of all that you have to make the drive and spend the time fighting crowds. And then a person has to resist the impulse purchases, which is a real issue.

Some newer keepers have the thought that they'd rather see the animals in person before buying, but when buying from a good breeder this is a non-issue. The breeder I've bought most of my frogs from has a *much* better chance of detecting issues than I do. My eye for some reptile species is good enough for me to trust over some breeders I'd be comfortable buying from, but that's got a lot of experience behind it.

There is the savings in shipping costs, I suppose, and prices per animal are generally less at an expo than the same breeder posts online, but that's kind of nickel and dime stuff in many cases.


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## epicfroglover99 (Nov 9, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I like reptile expos. I vend a couple, and sell a lot of animals there. They're fun, too.
> 
> That said, it is harder to purchase responsibly from an expo than having animals shipped to you. All the same research into sellers must be done, all the same research into species to be purchased must be done, and on top of all that you have to make the drive and spend the time fighting crowds. And then a person has to resist the impulse purchases, which is a real issue.
> 
> ...


However if they are bred that does innately make them preferable to than WC varieties, no? Sadly, there are just too few breeders and too great a shortage for me to pass up an opportunity to purchase a captive bred frog of the species I am looking for. Like the other user in the thread has mentioned, the herp market seems totally dominated by morphs in order to make money when there are so many other rare species out there that should be bred and protected.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Not sure exactly what you're asking, but no one should be buying WC frogs unless they're a very experienced keeper setting up a breeding program. That's not even part of the equation here, as far as I'm concerned. 

I'm talking about the difference between buying animals at an expo vs. having them shipped to you.


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## epicfroglover99 (Nov 9, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Not sure exactly what you're asking, but no one should be buying WC frogs unless they're a very experienced keeper setting up a breeding program. That's not even part of the equation here, as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> I'm talking about the difference between buying animals at an expo vs. having them shipped to you.


I'm saying that even if they are a breeder no one has heard of, as long as they aren't wild caught aren't they better? I'm also saying that some people can't afford to be picky about which breeder they buy from at an expo because it seems like every active breeder both online and at expos, is just selling dart morphs.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

epicfroglover99 said:


> I'm saying that even if they are a breeder no one has heard of, as long as they aren't wild caught aren't they better?


I'm not sure why the WC issue is being brought up. That's not a responsible option, and so isn't part of the calculus. There isn't any "better" since the only option should be CB animals, and 'better' is a comparative term. 

Besides, it isn't like there is only WC animals available online and a person has to go to an expo to get CB. Both are available in both places.


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## epicfroglover99 (Nov 9, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I'm not sure why the WC issue is being brought up. That's not a responsible option, and so isn't part of the calculus. There isn't any "better" since the only option should be CB animals, and 'better' is a comparative term.
> 
> Besides, it isn't like there is only WC animals available online and a person has to go to an expo to get CB. Both are available in both places.


There are tons of WC sales online for the species I am looking for, and close to zero CB. CB is certainly not the only option. I agree that you should only buy captive bred and I will only ever by CB, but when you tell me that I should put just as much effort into researching breeders at expos as I do sellers online, I'm saying while that is valid advice, I will certainly not be picky if I find CB species at Repticon, as they are probably all that will be available for many months maybe years and they're still CB, which is a good thing. Could you offer any extra info pertaining to the original question abt species variety? It is still quite a far drive for me and I am fearing that I will not be able to view the variety of frogs that I was anticipating  It would be my first reptile expo


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

epicfroglover99 said:


> Could you offer any extra info pertaining to the original question abt species variety? It is still quite a far drive for me and I am fearing that I will not be able to view the variety of frogs that I was anticipating  It would be my first reptile expo



Most reptile expos have relatively little in the way of amphibian offerings (at least those expos in the upper Midwest). This is typically very hit and miss (one vendor one way or the other can make a huge difference in overall offerings), so it isn't easy to give solid estimates.

Repticon publishes their vendor list ahead of time, AFAIK, so sellers can be contacted to find out what they intend to have at the show.


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

epicfroglover99 said:


> There are tons of WC sales online for the species I am looking for, and close to zero CB. CB is certainly not the only option. I agree that you should only buy captive bred and I will only ever by CB, but when you tell me that I should put just as much effort into researching breeders at expos as I do sellers online, I'm saying while that is valid advice, I will certainly not be picky if I find CB species at Repticon, as they are probably all that will be available for many months maybe years and they're still CB, which is a good thing. Could you offer any extra info pertaining to the original question abt species variety? It is still quite a far drive for me and I am fearing that I will not be able to view the variety of frogs that I was anticipating  It would be my first reptile expo


You might see Dendrobates sp. available, but it is very unlikely that you see anything else. You mentioned dart frog “morphs”. There are only a handful of true dendrobatid “morphs” in the popular herpetocultural definition of the word. These are generally frowned upon in this community. When you see the term “morph” in dendrobatid herpetoculture, it refers to a genetically distinct locality. This is NOT a human-propagated trait or mutation. This is a naturally occurring wild morphotype. In most cases, dendrobatid vendors selling “morphs” is not a negative-it simply means there is more diversity in their inventory. Very few people work with the few true “Morphs” in the hobby. You will see one of the big vendors selling “albino” tincs (Which I think are actually leucistic), and Melanistic auratus. This leaves a sour taste in my mouth. 
-Oscar


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

Also, what species are you looking for? I might be able to point you to someone in a private discussion.


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## epicfroglover99 (Nov 9, 2021)

Eurydactylodes said:


> You might see Dendrobates sp. available, but it is very unlikely that you see anything else. You mentioned dart frog “morphs”. There are only a handful of true dendrobatid “morphs” in the popular herpetocultural definition of the word. These are generally frowned upon in this community. When you see the term “morph” in dendrobatid herpetoculture, it refers to a genetically distinct locality. This is NOT a human-propagated trait or mutation. This is a naturally occurring wild morphotype. In most cases, dendrobatid vendors selling “morphs” is not a negative-it simply means there is more diversity in their inventory. Very few people work with the few true “Morphs” in the hobby. You will see one of the big vendors selling “albino” tincs (Which I think are actually leucistic), and Melanistic auratus. This leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
> -Oscar


Very interesting! I am learning more about darts already


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

epicfroglover99 said:


> Very interesting! I am learning more about darts already


Ask these questions... What do they feed them? What supplements they use?, How do they house them?, Where did they get the them? Are they wild caught, did they breed them themselves? How old are they? also I always ask scientific names if they are not labeled as such, If they don't know that's a bad sign. AVOID RESELLERS you should ALWAYS buy animals from a breeder if possible even if they cost more.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

Usually there are not many frog venders at these shows. I stay away from venders that have a table of mixed animals. A handful of pacman frogs, a few darts, some spiders..... They are most likely resellers and I would just not trust the quality or health of their animals. 

I looked at the list of venders there hoping there would be some cross overs with the shows I'm familiar with here in Ga. But, I didn't recognize any of the names. Sorry.

I would not go to the show expecting to walk away with frogs. Don't let the long drive influence you into making a rash decision. You might find some awesome frogs from a vender that you really like. If you see something you really are interested in wait around. Wait until the table is not busy and then go in a chat the people up. You can get a pretty good feel for the vender if they have the time to chat with you rather then just try to make a sale. You have to remember they are there to make money selling animals. 

Setting up a tank is expensive and the frogs are not cheap and live a long time hopefully so choose well.


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

I once drove 6 hours to go to a show and came home with nothing but some cork bark, sometimes they just don't have what you're looking for...


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