# Increasing yellow color in darts?



## Ratadm (May 1, 2008)

I've heard of using naturose and paprika as ways of increasing yellow coloration (and orange and red but that's less relevant to me at this time). A quick search seemed to show mixed results for people so I was wondering if anybody had some advice on amount to use and the effectiveness of these in adding coloration to frogs.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

okay a quick primer.. 
There are several sources of pigmentation in anurans and depending on which one is causing the coloration this determines whether or not supplementation in the diet will figure in intensity. 
Color can be due to refraction or reflection of light from iridiopores and this can not be increased through supplementation but it potentially could be modified through diet as in some amphibians increased dietary addition of some items modified iridiopores into melanopores.

Color can also be due to non-carotenoid pigments like pterins. Pterins are not derived from carotenoids but from purines and whether or not they can be increased through nutritional supplementation is unknown but the probable answer is no (for example, the orange on a firebelly toad's belly is due to a combination of a yellow pterin and a red carotenoid of which only the carotenoid is nutritionally derived). Pterins are stored in chromatophores potentially along with carotenoids. 

Color can also be due to carotenoids which are absorbed through the diet and stored in the appropriate chromatophores and in some cases converted into vitamin A (such as beta carotene). Some vertebrates modify the carotenoids to achieve other pigments (like male goldfinches during breeding season). There are over 500 different types of carotenoids and these are either polar or non-polar carotenoids. The polar carotenoids tend to be very poorly absorbed from the digestive tract and are of limited usefulness. (for example, this is why the reds in paprika do not tend to increase red pigmentation in anurans as they are very poorly absorbed). 

The last form of color is melanin and is held in melanopores. 
(For an excellant though slightly technical discussion I refer those interested to Amphibian Biology, the Integument by Heatwold). 

These colors interact in a number of ways to produce the pigments we see in the frogs. 

Now as to the amount to use... this has not been quantified and some carotenoids like canthaxanthin have been shown to have some issues when over supplemented (like liver damage) as there have not been any real in-depth peer reviewed studies on what we are doing (there has been some on salmon and flamingos for example) with the frogs. What we have seen to date is that some frogs can be supplemented as adults and show an intensification of color (for example like pumilio) while other (tricolors) do not show a lot of intensification of color as adults but show enhanced color when supplemented as tadpoles and as metamorphs. I forget where the tinctorius fall out on this but I have seen tinctorius that were color supplemented as tadpole show a higher intensity of color as metamorphs and adults than unsupplemented tinctorius. 

One of the reasons, people have seen good results with yellow with naturose and paprika is that both contain beta carotene.... 
The amount of supplementation depends on the supplement and the age of the animal, for example the use of spirulina for tadpoles is a form of color supplementation of yellows as it is a good source of beta carotene and this food is often used daily with tadpoles. Some people offer naturose on a weekly or biweekly basis or even less frequently. 
I haven't seen any posts discussing whether or not galactanotus increase in color post adminstering of color supplementation as adults. 

Ed


----------



## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

Ed said:


> I haven't seen any posts discussing whether or not galactanotus increase in color post adminstering of color supplementation as adults.
> 
> Ed


With yellow supplementation - my tincs: yellowback and cits respond well to the naturose and paprika. With the cits I initially oversupplemented and they became more organge.
My lemon yellow galacs - cannot tell any noticable difference


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Naturose seems to have enhanced the over-all color in my very old, somewhat faded pumpkin orange splash back galactonotus, although not to the same degree as the younger ones. Paprika didn't seem to make a lot of difference, but there seemed to be some. The most noticeable effect has been on the pumilio Bastimentos, which with age had faded to a very light yellow-side orange, although their froglets always came out bright red-orange. Paprika didn't seem to enhance their yellow much, but again, this was hard to tell. I don't do controlled studies. However, with Naturose supplement, the older adults are now decidedly red-orange like the new froglets and juveniles. 

These are all just impressions I've had over the years, but I really do think that both supplements work in a practical sense to some extent on the yellows and reds, and the Naturose does definitely seem to work more toward the red enhancement. 

Ed's primer in invaluable. It should become a sticky so he won't have to keep doing it over and over.


----------



## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

Does anyone feed their tads carrots? That would be a good source of beta-carotene.
-mark


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Mark,

you would probably have to at least cook the carrots some to soften them for the tadpoles but it should work as well. If you are already using a spirulina containing food then its probably not necessary and is actually probably better as it not only contains other carotenoids but is a pretty good source of amino acids and other nutrients. (see http://www.antenna.ch/en/documents/AspectNut_UK.pdf )
For a good list of the carotenoids in spirulina see http://www.cyanotech.com/pdfs/spirulina/spbul3.pdf (it also tells you how to extract them yourself. 

Typically spirulina has a greater concentration (depending on strain) of beta carotene that carrots. 


Ed


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I have had good success with Naturose for reds and yellows. To the point I don't use it unless I notice some fading. Id say 1-2 times a month and I feed it to all of my frogs when I do.


----------



## kamazza (Sep 2, 2008)

I have leucs, would this bring out their color? How/where would I get "Naturose" ?


----------



## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

From a sponsor of course! 

Naturose was discontinued by the manufacturer in lieu of a product that would pass FDA regulations for human consumption.

We are working with other manufacturers and testing other sources of Astaxanthin.


----------



## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Hey Ed,

Can you tell me why the flash marks of some species of frogs do not respond to supplementation and also do not show as well when bred in captivity?

Last I had heard (or so I thought) the flash marks were due to lack of purines (overheard conversation which I wasn't involved in) so I'm assuming pterins. If they're not getting the flash marks (or possibly losing them as I thought I had heard was happening with some specific frogs), how can this not be a response to diet? Would it then be environmental?

-Nish


----------



## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Can't comment on other species, but my zaparo have both brightened and faded their flash marks based on dominance in the group.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

nish07 said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Can you tell me why the flash marks of some species of frogs do not respond to supplementation and also do not show as well when bred in captivity?
> 
> ...


I would be surprised if you could find a diet that would support the frogs metabolically and lack sufficient purines to support pterin synthesis.....Pterins tend to be widely distributed within the skin of many anurans as well as contributing to eye pigments in a number of species so if the frogs were actually deficient in purines, you should see a wider color disruption than just the flash markings.... (typically if done artificially its due to disruption of xanthine dehydrogenase (incidentially mutations in this process typically result in melanoid anurans)). (I could not find a reference to actual pigments making up flash markings but this is a huge area of pigments that covers a wide number of totally unrelated species..... 

There can be significant changes in anuran (adult or tadpole) pigmentation based on a number of items such as fear, injury, temperature, humidity, exposure to predator(s).. so I would not be surprised, if the flash markings show differential intensity based on a number of factors such as light level, population density..... At least in some tadpoles, there is siginificant color variation depending on exposure to different predators and pterin and pigmentation of skin is partially set during development in the egg as well as afterwards so hypothetically (and I stress this) it could even in theory be due to a lack of exposure to predators. 
At this time, as far as I can tell, there is a lack of evidence as to thier actual purpose.. 

Some comments, 

Ed


----------



## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Thanks for the reply Ed. It's an interesting assumption that apparent predators could cause flash marks to develop or develop brighter. I wonder if anyone with a good amount of breeding stock of any frog with flash mark variation could devise a plan to synthesize the presence of a potential predator and see if it makes a difference.

-Nish


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

ho Nish,

That was total speculation above... just to give an idea on how wide open the potential is to interpretation.. 

My personal hunch is that there are multiple purposes to them... a number of the species that have flash marks are also cryptic (hence the idea that they are a predator deterrant..) however at least in diurnal or crepuscular anurans they could also serve as signaling devices to the same species over distance as they are visible when the animal moves... IF (and expanding on Mike's observation above) they are a signaling device then I would expect them to be less vivid if the density of animals was high and/or there was a pecking order of some kind in place as the need to signal the other frogs requires less stimulation and/or may be disadvantageous to the frog. Remember that skin intensity in a large number of animals can be controlled through the interaction of the melanopores (I would give some page citations out of Heatwold's Amphibian Biology but its out on loan at the moment) which would dull or reduce the brightness of the flash pattern. 

Another possibility maybe a function of light intensity. If the frog is typically a undercanopy dweller with a lower light intensity, the brighter lights in the terraria maybe washing out the color or reducing the frog's needs for what we perceive as a brighter color... 
Also has anyone looked at a number of the flashpatterns in the frogs under UVA light to see if there is reflectance? This could be a factor as well, if there is a lack of stimulation via UV lighting then the frog's may not develop the pigment..... 

These of course are pure speculation as I cannot find any hard data to back them up.. (and keep in mind that there is likely a lot of species specific exceptions....) 

Ed


----------



## ryanf (May 29, 2007)

hey josh, did you have any luck finding a replacement product for the Astaxanthin?


----------

