# Caucheros



## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

Just thought I'd share a couple shots I took today....


























How's everybody doing with their's? Any signs of breeding yet?


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## schegini14 (May 17, 2006)

Sweet pics Rob. What kind of camera do you have? My male calls all day long but sometime the female seems not interested. How are things going with yours? Did you end up finding another pair?


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

NIIIIICE Rob.

I like the fact that yours actually look blue. I've seen a lot that are very dark that I don't care for as much.


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Great shots! Those are some pretty nice looking frogs you have. Have you heard any calling or anything from them?


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## nitsuj (Jan 21, 2007)

nice frogs


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Rob, 

Nice frogs!

I am still having trouble sexing mine. I have one confirmed male, one possible male, and several that are confused....(i.e. no behavior indicating either male or female).

As such, no breeding activity. I'm hoping things change as soon as they are introduced to their new, much larger, vivs.

BTW - What is the size and shape of your calling male? Mine is the smaller of the group with a slim-to-average torso width.

Steven


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

Lets see if I can answer everybody.

Justin and I went in together and bought 6. We think the group is a 5.1 but maybe a 4.2. Out of the two that has not called, one looks to be female and the other is pretty iffy. Looks male-ish but has not called.

I just picked up another female this week (Thanks Aaron!) so I will pair that up with an extra male when it arrives on Thursday.

The males in our group are pretty easy to get to call and do look like your traditional male pum. More slender in the rear. The females, if we have any, we keep scratching our heads over. The guys are easy to get to call so we figure if it hadn't called by now we really hope it is a female. However if you looked at body shape alone I would swear it is a male. Looks like I either have all males up to now (aside from my new one) or these things are very difficult to sex when they are not gravid.

Man, I will be excited if I can produce a few froglets. Frogs seem healthy, have gained/maintained weight and are active. Seems just a matter of time if you do have a pair. I'm setting up two tanks with one pair each. Justin will have a trio or a pair and an extra male to swap in and out as needed. Sit back and wait now I guess.

I rock a simple camera but I LOVE it. It's a Canon SD630. If you look into these the new model (700-something) they have the image stabalizer which is a must with these little cameras IMO.


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Rob,

Care to elaborate on the sex of the frogs in the pictures you posted? I am guessing it's your pair, with the smaller one perched at top the male and the climber the female? It's hard to distinguish much of a difference.

Steven


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## jschroeder (Mar 19, 2005)

It's actually the other way around, and it's not sure yet wether it's a female or not. The top frog in the first photo was pretty skinny when they arrived, so it's still putting on some weight. It's funny, the two largest frogs we got were the first to call. Kind of threw me for a loop. I think there will still be a lot to learn about this morph, they seem much shyer than any other pum I've seen.


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## Hassan347 (Jan 8, 2006)

These frogs are quicky becoming my favourite....how much do they go for?


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## jschroeder (Mar 19, 2005)

I thought I would add a nice shot I got today, I did not use a flash in either photo:










And one more:










I think these guys are quite blue for the most part, very beautiful frogs. 
BTW, it's a male..


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

These guys are very nice... much lighter (and bluer) than my Darks. They are a nice change and it's good to see them around.


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

> These frogs are quicky becoming my favourite....how much do they go for?


The going rate is $275/ea. We'll see how well they breed to determine if the price goes up or down from there (taking into account future imports and other external factors) .


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## roadkillkitty (Jul 26, 2006)

can somebody post a pic of a darkland next to the cauchero just for the heck of it. So i can see some differences. I know the cauchero's are larger

Thanks -jill-


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## schegini14 (May 17, 2006)

kleinhanz said:


> > These frogs are quicky becoming my favourite....how much do they go for?
> 
> 
> The going rate is $275/ea. We'll see how well they breed to determine if the price goes up or down from there (taking into account future imports and other external factors) .


In my opinion, I have not heard of anyone having luck breeding these guys so far. Usually when an import shipment comes in a week or two later there are a couple people sharing some good news. I doubt there will be any other importation of these guys. i think the prices will go up


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## Hassan347 (Jan 8, 2006)

kleinhanz said:


> > These frogs are quicky becoming my favourite....how much do they go for?
> 
> 
> The going rate is $275/ea. We'll see how well they breed to determine if the price goes up or down from there (taking into account future imports and other external factors) .


sadly out of my range at the moment 

whats the story on these guy's, have they been recently discovered?


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

They have been in Europe (someone chime in if they know for how long), but this was the first ever legal importation of these to the U.S. They do have site data, which was coded by SNDF to keep location secret from smugglers, so no mixy-matchy-hybridy here. Very limited numbers came in and they were all sold very quickly (couple days). 

I was told from SNDF that they do not expect another shipment of these in the foreseeable future but who knows for sure. Yes, I haven't heard even an egg mass yet from anyone. Time will tell. For all we know these are only sub-adults.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Beautiful frog's much prettier than darklands imo.Goodluck and if you guy's ever have any extra tads let me know :wink:


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Rob,

I was wondering whether they might be sub-adults as well. Aside from the the one confirmed male I have, all the others refuse to exhibit any behavior that even hints at gender. To make things worse their size and shape runs the full gambit from short to long, skinny to fat. 

I originally thought the male was female because of shape and a shy nature. In a 20H viv. it stays down low under some drift wood within a 6 x 6 in area. All the others are much more active and explore their entire surroundings. Just wish they would do more than that...

Good luck with your potential pairings.

Steven


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

> Beautiful frog's much prettier than darklands imo.Goodluck and if you guy's ever have any extra tads let me know


Hey Trow, just to clarify some of the caucheros look identical to Darklands ... they are not all as preaty as the pictures listed above .... Here is a comparison of two caucheros i just got from a friend of mines from sndf imports. 









These are the same imports and look at the difference ( both pics where taken with same camera, same flash same everything )


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

I was told by Marcus that they can "darken up when stressed", anybody find that the colors on their Caucheros are lightening up, or changed at all since receiving them?


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Now that you mention it, I think one of mine is a bit darker than I remember. I thought that it was just a difference in lighting (moved from one viv. to another), but it is worth some investigation - especially if darker = stressed.


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

Rob my friend just informed me that yes they can darken up when stressed , same as most frogs...... but at the same time i have found that not all caucheros have the gorgeous light blue/purple tint to them , some are just dark like darklands.


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## sebastiaan (Apr 19, 2007)

as most frogs??? din't hear of anything like that before, thats usefull info for a frogger! what species are known to do this ??


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

let me rephrase that ..... ALL FROGS..... when stressed will be darker in color.... I know when i dont feel good i look like casper :wink:


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## sebastiaan (Apr 19, 2007)

is that difference on one frog as big as between these two or is it less noticable??


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## jmcc000 (Apr 7, 2005)

Dang, very nice looking frogs. Sucks that they look to be very male heavy.


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## thetattooedone (Mar 26, 2007)

Dude, those pictures turned out nice Rob.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

I guess I should have clarified that THESE cauchi's are much prettier than any darkland I have seen to date.
I hope you guy's have success


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

Body shape isn't really a good indicator to sex with pumilios because they are in fact one of the more slender PDFs. With my cayos, my male looks like a butterball turkey while my female looks a little more lean, but nowhere near skinny.
It seems that every Cauchero posted is a different shade of blue, but very pretty nonetheless. Justin, that male is really nice. Best of luck guys, it would be nice to see the price in these guys just drop a little in the future, lol.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

*Darklands and Cauchero....same population?*

I am at the airport now returning after 2 weeks in Bocas del Toro Panama and Costa Rica and have tons of photo´s and movies to share. When I get back I will try and get these online for everyone.

In particular I went to Cauchero and Tierra Oscura (Darklands) to compare these frogs. From where we hit beach in Darklands I was able to hike to the coast of Cauchero in about 40 minutes give or take 10. The frogs were present throughout our hike and I have photos-video from both coasts. I couldn´t determine a noticable size difference from observation and colors definitely overlap with variation throughout the sites. 

There are still debates based on color, size, field visits, behavior etc that these are separate populations but my personal feeling based on what I observed is this is simply variation in one locale. I imagine alot of the ideas about these locales are based one what the particular specimens collected looked like. Until a statistically significant study is done in the field with large numbers of frogs observed I don´t think anyone can realistically say anything for sure.

I will post the shots I have soon ...

Chris


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

So, is the dabate whether these frogs are of two closely related populations or just variations within one population?


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

The answer to that would be very nice to know. If cauchero lies at one end and Darkland at the other with a *continuous* population in between, then it is very possible that they are variations in a single population. I would love to hear more about this as it actually could be very important..


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