# Effectiveness of Transdermal Application of Medicine



## uwiik (Jun 29, 2018)

Hi all,

Just wondering about the effectiveness of transdermal application of medication on PDF? Particularly for application of Panacur, Metronidazole and Baytril? Due to recent teardown of my vivariums for bad unhealthy design, all of my 16 frogs are on their own individual make shift 4 gal containers right now. I originally had 3 frogs that suffered from bad Vitamin A deficiency losing function of front or back legs but they all still eating foraciously and all three has sprung back extremely quickly to a much better life after I supplemented their food with Retinol based Vitamin A powder (Repashy on the way from USA) I can see that they are now able to move their legs much better and I am very positive for their recovery. HOWEVER, perhaps due to severe stress from moving to container, one of the adult azureus and one adult bumblebee suddenly lost their appetite, getting skinnier really fast and appear listless, I suspected internal worms or protozoa going havoc due to suppressed immune system from the stress. Judging from how quickly both lost their body mass, I highly suspected internal worms or protozoa which as I understand only Panacur or Metronidazole can cure, so I plan to propylactically administer both medications. I know that dusting the FF with powdered meds will give the best result with force administration through prying open the mouth being very effective as well, but both frogs won't eat and from my past experience handling unhealthy frogs and performing stressful method such as prying the mouth open will actually kill the sick frog MUCH faster than leaving them alone, so I am only left with dropping on the back (Transdermal) application of medicine as the safest method. 

How effective is transdermal application of medicine to PDF? Should I just use tepid water or Pedialyte to mix the medicine? 

Before anybody tell me to go to exotic pet vet, there is not a single vet that understand amphibian in the country, I have tried asking a couple of well known vets and I was answered with laughter by both, so here I am stuck with being my own frog doctor. I have a lot of experience in handling sick animals by both hobby and profession as tropical fish exporter, so I know my way around animal medicine and I do own three digits electronic scale so I will never fatally overdose. I just need to know the effectiveness of transdermal application of Panacur, Metronidazole and Baytril for PDF. 

Many thanks everyone!!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I am sorry you are in such a situation. I do hope you get things corrected.

Given that you admit to unhealthy viv design, acute stress and vitamin deficiency, I wonder if it is necessary to suspect internal parasites. It seems that poor health and anorexia are both overdetermed by other issues.



uwiik said:


> from my past experience handling unhealthy frogs and performing stressful method such as prying the mouth open will actually kill the sick frog MUCH faster than leaving them alone


If you don't have a conclusive diagnosis and are treating with whatever medications you are able to get your hands on, that kills animals, too. I myself would lean toward using whatever accepted protocols are currently practiced.

I don't know the specific answers to your questions, though I do know that Metronidazole is nearly insoluble in water, so an attempt to make a solution of it in a water-based carrier is unsafe.

I'm sorry this is a contrarian sort of non-answer. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will add something here. Good luck!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I've been mulling this over today, and thought of a few more relevant points that may be more helpful than what I posted earlier. 

Panacur is very unlikely to work transdermally. At least in mammals (and I believe in reptiles too, though I'm not certain) Panacur isn't absorbed into the body through the digestive tract; this is why it really isn't possible to overdose a mammal. So, it isn't likely to be absorbed into the skin either, and even if it were somehow gotten into the bloodstream, it woudn't likely have any affect inside the digestive system.

I wasn't going to mention this, but I did a little searching and found that Ivermectin is commonly used in amphibians. I don't really like recommending Ivermectin; while I use it in livestock (it treats both intestinal worms and external parasites in sheep; the former are really common, and I've had the latter crop up in my small flock a couple times) I've accidentally overdosed rodents treating topically for mites. Also, some snake genera are especially sensitive to dose, and it is absolutely contraindicated in turtles and tortoises. The margin of safety is pretty narrow in general with Ivermectin, and it -- like Metronidazole -- isn't soluble in water. That said, you might read this and go from there:

http://www.amphibianark.org/pdf/Husbandry/Deworming amphibians.pdf


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've treated metamorphic golden mantellas with ivermectine with no issues. You need to simply get the proper dilution which is commonly done usiing propylene glycol (not ethylene glycol). It is well absorbed transdermally. 

Fenbendazole is probably not the best choice since absorption through the skin would then be removed from the system through the liver and the kidneys which causes reduced potential dosages from reaching the digestive tract. If yiu cannot dose orally then you should consider alternate worming agents. 

Loss of limb function isn't indicative of vitamin A deficiency. How did you reach the conclusion that they were deficient in vitamin A? 

Metronidazole does not dissolve well in water and again, your not going to get the best dosage into the digestive tract unless you orally dose the animal as again your going to get it being cleared from the system through the liver and kidneys. 

Baytril as with ivermectin has to be properly diluted before you can use it topically. 

I would strongly suggest getting fecal checks done on the frogs as even vets that do not treat exotics can recognize the worms and coccidians as to general group as opposed to shotgun treating them particularly when your diagnosis of vitamin A deficiency doesn't fit the known presentations... The basic identification of what is present will give you much better success in saving the frogs than shot gun treatments. I should also note, that if they have coccidians, your likely to need an additional medication than those listed in your question. 

some comments 

Ed


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