# de-wormer



## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

i was just wondering, would it hurt the frog to give it de-wormer even though you are not sure if it has worms. you know save a step and not check it for worms and give it the meds anyway. i guess sort of getting a flu shot even before you get the flu.or am i just babbling. here.
walt


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2004)

LMAO  This is one of those huge issues that people will disagree on for years to come. I think the one consensus on the board is, see a vet before treating with regiments of warming meds.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I've been thinking about starting a pole on this very topic, as I am really wondering what others do. At this time I have to agree with Joe that there are a number of opinions. I do know that in some case a treatment like this has killed frgos. So it is not something to be very careful with, and I'm not sure anyone has the proper dosages firgured out.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Everyone is probably sick of reading my opinion, but here goes:

Most drugs have side effects, even at recommended dosage levels.

Exact dosing for an animal with such a small body size can be very difficult, especially if you are administering a wormer by dusting flies (that is in no way an exact method of dosing if you think about it).

I have heard of multiple breeders with deaths that occurred after preventatively dosing frogs with Panacure.

Because I have a conservative bent on medicating (a personal preference), I do not like the idea of preventatively administering a wormer, as you are exposing your animal to the side effects inherent in the particular drug you are administering without knowing if animal truly needs it. 

To my mind, a better approach is to pay the extra $10-$20 to have a decent vet look at a fecal before treating; that way the appropriate medication can be administered if necessary, and I don't have to take the risk of medicating a valued (and often times expensive) pet if the fecals come out negative.

Plus, simply dosing a frog with medication may not take care of the problem if you keep the frog in the same environment after treating, and you may not be administering a drug that is effective on a parasite infecting the animal. 

I'm not saying preventative treatment is irresponsible or bad, but I do think that hobbyists should know that there are risks associated with it, and relatively simple ways to mitigate those risks.

I think it would be great to hear opposing opinions and experiences other froggers have had with preventatively worming frogs, as I think we could all learn from such a discussion if approached delicately. I think that the farmed pumilio from Seaside were preventatively dosed and most are doing okay, but I really don't know the particulars.

DISCLAIMER--none of the above was intended to be veterinary advice, just a viewpoint with some observations.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Ok first I do not want anyone to take this as anymore than an ideas, as this is just thinking, and not my tested practices.

If very small amounts of meds were mixed in with vitamins, I wonder if the small dosages would reduce any noticable side effects. Yes the constant very small amounts could be enough to keep them health. On the other hand the small dosages could have "0" effect.

All in all I like most, just want to keep my frogs as healthy as can be. I agree with Homer that right now the only way to be safe and sure is to have fecals done by a qualified Vet.

I hope we can hear a response from some others who do and or have treated their collection on a regular basis, and their findings.


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## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

I agree with Homer. Medicating when not needed can have drastic side effects now or further down the road. So others will argue that if you can medicate to avoid the problem then where the harm in that? To that I answer, the "science" of treating herps is no where near the level of other animals. We simply do not have the same knowledge base for frogs. You may actually place your prize frog in jeopardy. If the frog does in fact have a "disease" and medicate it there is a chance it will survive. Whereas; if it does not have a "disease", and you medicate, you may alter a potentially health life in a negative way. 
But, if you want to give your frogs cipro-5 to save it from all the nasties of the world good luck, but don't forget the innoculations, vaccines and exercise! :lol: 
Just my thoughts
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Mike


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## AQUAMAC (Jul 27, 2004)

Kyle-

I just read your post and wanted to respond. I think it would be very irresponsible of any frog breeder to suggest giving meds in small dosages. There have been NUMEROUS studies done with both animals and humans that indicate that using drugs in small dosages will just allow certain bacteria and pathogens to develop a resistance to the drugs, thus lowering the drugs efficacy. This makes treatment VERY difficult. I appreciate your logic in your suggestions but I just think treating in small dosages has been proven all in all to do more harm then good.

-Mike


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Didn't think of that, but it makes sense. I currently follow the if it aint broke don't fix it method...


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