# Building a pumpless misting system for a small vivarium



## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

This design is for vivariums 20 gallons or less which have external fan air circulation. Just a proof of concept that uses standard 12g, 16g, and 25g CO2 cartridges. Still needs a solenoid valve and a larger water tank as well as a few extras.

If anyone knows where I can get larger cap for the water like the one in the video, please let me know! I'm sure there is a name for the type 2-port cap, but I don't know it.

Jae


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

You can get a 2 port rubber stopper to fit a glass 5 gallon carboy (deep rock style water jug) at any beer home brewing store.

You can scoff at me all you want Jae, but I feel the the potential dangers of this system should be pointed out. 
Timers can fail, solenoids can fail, and humans can forget to refill the reservoir. If the reservoir runs out of water, you will be pumping CO2 into your viv. If the timer or the solenoid fails, and it continues to pump, you could deplete your water and begin pumping CO2 uncontrolled into your viv. Too much CO2 can suffocate your frogs.
I just think people should be aware of the possible problems before running out to build one.


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## enfinite5 (Nov 23, 2011)

Very cool!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I like the idea, but it would be nice if it could be done with oxygen instead of CO2.


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## enfinite5 (Nov 23, 2011)

Ya I agree....This is going to sound ridiculous but misters for me seem kinda of pointless and seem like they would completely soak a VIV...my viv is completely sealed off with a fogger and stays 100% humid the entire time. I give the plants a good misting once or twice a week but anything more seems like it would be way to wet.

I do love the simplicity of this design though.


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## ClintonJ (May 11, 2009)

I think the external fan air circulation part of his explanation somewhat addresses the build up of CO2 danger that could happen should something malfunction. Not saying it's bullet proof but a cool concept. Thanks for building one!


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## Redknee (Feb 19, 2012)

Nice idea, I was thinking about using your setup but with my 10Kg CO2 cylinder that I have from my aquascaping/fishkeeping days.
With a good solenoid valve and a good timer I think it's hard to fail. Been using such a setup for a planted tank, CO2 cylinder, solenoid, good expensive timer and it never failed.
Not to mention that with the pressure you get from a 10Kg CO2 tank you can use way over 20 sprinklers so it would work well even for a huge vivarium.
Mine was filled at 60 bar(870PSI). 
Will put it to a test just to see how it goes, I still have most of the stuff.
Now sure about the cost effectiveness tho, a mistking costs around what... 200 bucks if you get the ultimate value pack.
The CO2 cylinder would run at around 100 bucks not to mention the pressure gauges, solenoid valve and timer.
Still a cool idea that I find worth trying.


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## davescrews (Dec 11, 2008)

What about using a SCUBA tank to pressurize instead of the co2?


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## Redknee (Feb 19, 2012)

davescrews said:


> What about using a SCUBA tank to pressurize instead of the co2?


Same price as the CO2, just a bit safer for the frogs.


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## gsuherp (Sep 11, 2008)

you might want to check out some paintball websites for solenoid ideas and ways to use them for this idea. Also would suggest the use of a small compressed air tank, like a scuba tank, but the paintball people use much smaller and cheaper version that can get filled the same. This is a great idea with huge potential!


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

Very cool idea. I would definitely use "breathable air" or whatever they call it for scuba over CO2 though.


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

someone on these boards has a scuba-misting system setup 


it is not efficient however; in that users case i believe it was worthwhile because he dove all the time and merely used the remainder of air in his tanks. i'm sure the thread can be found with a little searching....


but overall, I have to be pessimistic here and say that I do not see much of a benefit to this system, and many dangers as pumilo has pointed out already. what are the real benefits here?


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## WeeNe858 (Sep 13, 2010)

Could the CO2 release potentially feed the plants?

Interesting concept along with your sprinkler unit.


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## Redknee (Feb 19, 2012)

How about using an aquarium air pump to get pressure instead of the Co2/O2 cylinders? 
It would cut the cost in less than half and the dangers of pressurised cylinders are avoided. 
It would not be pumpless as the air pump is still a pump but...
Ignore me, I am beyond the topic already


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

EvilLost said:


> someone on these boards has a scuba-misting system setup
> 
> 
> it is not efficient however; in that users case i believe it was worthwhile because he dove all the time and merely used the remainder of air in his tanks. i'm sure the thread can be found with a little searching....
> ...


It's actually quite efficient with a full scuba tank. I mist about 15 tanks, 200 times with one full tank. It only costs $3.00 to fill a scuba tank with air to 3000 psi.

Konton you can create a water chamber any size you want with a few pieces of cheap PVC fittings, as long as you get pressure rated pipe. I would add a pressure regulator before the chamber ( No more than 90 pounds per square inch) and the timed solenoid valve after the chamber.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Redknee said:


> How about using an aquarium air pump to get pressure instead of the Co2/O2 cylinders?
> It would cut the cost in less than half and the dangers of pressurised cylinders are avoided.
> It would not be pumpless as the air pump is still a pump but...
> Ignore me, I am beyond the topic already


Aquarium pumps can't put out nearly enough pressure. These nozzles require a minimum of 60 PSI to work correctly, Some of the cheap Home Depot nozzles can work with as low as 30 PSI but don't put out near as fine of mist.

Also,
If anyone were to consider using an Oxygen tank, I want to say DON'T DO IT!!!
Pressurized Oxygen is extremely dangerous if it were to have a sudden release and come into contact with any flammable material it can easily cause an explosion. Even from something as small as a few drops of oil around a pipe thread. That's why scuba tanks that are to be filled with oxygen must have special lubricants on the threads and O rings and be oxygen cleaned. 
A diver was killed last year by a tank filled with oxygen that was dropped.
St. Pete veteran killed by exploding scuba tank | TBO.com


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

WeeNe858 said:


> Could the CO2 release potentially feed the plants?
> 
> Interesting concept along with your sprinkler unit.


Your plants would potentially have some benefit when the lights are on, but you'd also have dead or dying frogs.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for all the suggestions and constructive criticism. It is appreciated. 

I tend to want to test if something can be made first, then adjust the concept once I know it's worth continuing. 

This type of misting is intended for small 15 gallon vivarium for my desk at work. It would assume I'm building all the other environmental parameters. That being said, controlled venting with 2 50mm fans was part of the system, but certainly there are other options than using CO2 in case of failure










I can see the danger of using these, plus there are 3 times as expensive. But I'll consider all options. For example, rigging the fan to the solenoid valve, so they come on 1 minute before and turn off 1 minute after misting occurs. 

As for valves, I'm looking at these right now, but am not sure if 115 PSI is enough:
Results for Pneumatic valves:Solenoid valve 2 way









Plus the tank for storing water under pressure is a huge issue for me. So far I have not had much luck finding a cheap solution for the cap manifold. Thanks for the PCV pipe tip. It has me considering this:
1/2 in. MPT 2 Port Manifold-68035 at The Home Depot









But it's still not the elegant solution I want.


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## nakigara (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't think they would do well for long term pressurization, but something like one of those hand-pumped pesticide sprayers may work. That way you are just using atmospheric air, and it would be at much lower pressures then a cylinder.

Or possibly some set up using an air compressor/compressed air tank. I would imagine some of them are set to hold pressure over long term.


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

That CO2 is going to make that water VERY acidic! Perhaps the use of compressed air? Like a hand held pump up sprayer connected to some good mist valves and a timer.


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

Here's another thought. Why not use an air compressor to generate the pressure. Last year at Lowe's black friday sale I bought a small compressor for $59.00 and it had a small nail gun to boot. I see them all the time for about $99.00. The only disadvantage might be the noise when it cycled on and off. Another option could be to set up the piping / plumbing in the garage and run the line using either PVC or CPVC to your frog room (both are extremely easy to cut / glue / install. This way the noise would not be noticeable or obnoxious. You could either run the air to the water tank in the room, or have the water tank in the garage as well and plumb the water run to the room. It might be much cheaper than having to buy a scuba tank and constantly refilling them. People do this all the time in their wood shops.


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## ClintonJ (May 11, 2009)

Running with Dave's idea, there are compressed air storage tanks that can be filled and reused to supply the air as needed without the noise if remote location of the compressor isn't possible. A 9 gallon tank runs $40. Nothing toxic about compressed air unless you live in the Central Valley California


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Won't both of those be loud and take up a bunch of space? My focus was on something that was small and quiet and would fit nice on a desk at the office. But maybe I should just mist by hand.


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

konton said:


> Won't both of those be loud and take up a bunch of space? My focus was on something that was small and quiet and would fit nice on a desk at the office. But maybe I should just mist by hand.


For one tank or two, hand misting might be easier  But I always love experiments like this.

Continuing with the compressor discussion... what would you use for the water storage tank that can be pressurized? Ideally something that holds a large amount of water so you don't have to fill it very often. This is a cool idea but for anything large enough to be care free for at least a week at a time is probably going to cost as much as a misting system kit like Mist King as it is. Love the ideas though.


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

Since we are suggesting absurd ideas, how about a solar panel inside to power a small pump? I realize this doesn't get around the "no pump" idea, but it doesn't need any outside connections at least which seems to be partly what you are going for 


I mean, we have the lights already...


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