# Amphibian Breed of the Year - The Reptile Report



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

For those who have not seen the contest, The Reptile Report has a year end, reader's choice contest going on. There are several DB members who have been nominated for different awards. 

The Amphibian Breeder of the year contest is getting heated! When The Reptile Report posted the vote counts early this morning, Dart Frog Connections was leading the contest with us, Dendrobati, in a strong second place. We stepped up our campaign through facebook and email first thing this morning. We pulled ahead of Taron's organization, but they seem to have awaken and now have votes coming in at an alarming rate! With their 52,000 + facebook fans, they have a lot of potential votes behind them. 

If you want to join in on the fun, check out at 2013 | The Reptile Report

Brad


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

DFC is in 2nd place. People better start voting. I voted on multiple nominees.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Honestly? I hadn't paid attention to this - at all.

That is, I hadn't paid attention to it till I heard that there was a chance DFC might win. How the hell are they even in the voting? Again, buying votes. Just like buying "Likes" on FB.

I mean, DFC this year - DFW (or whatever their flavor of the day is then) next year?

I'll now get involved, even though I find this type of thing really distasteful. The only thing worse than the whole damn contest is the possibility that DFC might win.

s



ecichlid said:


> DFC is in 2nd place. People better start voting. I voted on multiple nominees.


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

It is a shame. This is just one big popularity contest really. I voted once on who I thought deserved this, but I'll be voting everyday now and making sure a great breeder gets this award and not DFC.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

its only a few more votes, but I'll keep voting till the end of the year


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Brad, Marta, you have my vote


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Brad and Marta.. you guys got my vote.. I have not snagged any frogs from you guys.. but I know what you guys stand for.. And your actions speak a hell of a lot louder than having any frogs in front of me. So I did vote for you guys!


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## pafrogguy (May 8, 2013)

You guys have mine as well. If DFC would actually win... man what horses*!t!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I did not understand the meaning of this contest, nor its usefulness, but Dendrobati my vote is yours.

(DFC: Sorry, but who are they?)


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## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it's just some publication that will the give winner a little more public exposure.

DFC is Dart Frog Connection. I don't wanna open that can of worms, but you can do a search on the boards... You'll quickly find out why no one wants them to win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I didn't even vote for president and
this has me more concerned.

John


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

How can it be amphibian breeder of the year if it only includes frogs? What about salamander breeders?


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

Michael Shrom said:


> How can it be amphibian breeder of the year if it only includes frogs? What about salamander breeders?


Michael, during the month of November people nominated folks for Amphibian Breeder of the Year. The top 10 nominated go to the voting round.


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

Scott said:


> Honestly? I hadn't paid attention to this - at all.
> 
> That is, I hadn't paid attention to it till I heard that there was a chance DFC might win. How the hell are they even in the voting? Again, buying votes. Just like buying "Likes" on FB.
> 
> ...


You don't have to pay to get more votes in this instance. Use Tor or another proxy service. 

Edit: Look at the industry staples like geckos and pythons. There are more votes in Amphibian Breeder than in those sections when the the FB nomination had fewer FB nominations.


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

JJuchems said:


> You don't have to pay to get more votes in this instance. Use Tor or another proxy service.


Please don't do that. TRR is on top of things. They said they deleted over 3000 votes from this same type of thing. 

Please be honest with your voting.


Brad


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

Dendrobati said:


> Please don't do that. TRR is on top of things. They said they deleted over 3000 votes from this same type of thing.
> 
> Please be honest with your voting.
> 
> ...


Seriously... Look at my edit.


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

I was just kidding. We all know that a contest like this has no real meaning.


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## The Dendrobatidae Project (Dec 13, 2013)

Good luck!!!


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2009)

Michael Shrom said:


> I was just kidding. We all know that a contest like this has no real meaning.


Why does it have no real meaning? Because you aren't winning? Or aren't nominated? Or your favorite isn't winning? I don't get this attitude.

We created The Reptile Report to shine our own light on all the reptile forums. It has worked incredibly well. The Reptile Report allows me to stay on top of things that are happening across a very wide spectrum. It works that way for tens of thousands of other hobbyists as well.

We created the Best of Awards to recognize excellence in the hobby and industry. We had open nominations FOR A MONTH, and promoted that heavily. It didn't make your radar? Very sorry about that, it wasn't for lack of effort. 

You don't like the nominees? It was an open nomination process. You don't like who is leading in the Reader's Choice voting? Then vote for your own choice. 

Mike Novy seems like a terrific guy, running a terrific business. Vote for him, that would be great. You want to show him some appreciation and recognition? Then vote for him!

But why the negativity? DFC did something bad? Don't vote for them. But bellyaching about them seems petty. Spend the energy promoting, recognizing, or voting for who you deem to be TERRIFIC.

I met the DFC guys at the San Diego Super Show. Being a complete frog ignoramous, I asked them all kinds of questions about the frogs, the setups, the tadpoles, the breeding. They had a great looking (and huge) booth, very friendly staff, and they spent time telling me about different products and animals. I thought they were really friendly and welcoming to a bunch of very newbie questions. 

They have a huge Facebook page. But they were not on my radar before the show in early November. They have been VERY enthusiastic about the Best of 2013 Awards, they were very active in the nomination process, and worked very hard to get a bunch of nominations. I admire hard work, enthusiasm and passion.

Their vote results are exactly in line with their efforts and enthusiasm. I see it mirrored in other categories as well. The folks that are working hardest at it are seeing the best results. And then detractors want to cry "no fair" or "they suck". Ugh.

You know who had NOT been paying attention? Brad at Dendrobati. I don't think he even knew they were nominated. That's ok, like I said, it didn't make everyone's radar. 

But Brad contacted me, asked me about the process, asked for an update, asked for suggestions on what happens next, and I suggested he get out the vote!

Within a couple of days his enthusiasm and effort has brought Dendrobati to the top of the vote count! Terrific results! And he isn't done. With his momentum and support, he is going to be hard to beat. And that is great for him!

I don't think he is buying votes, and I don't think it is fair to imply that DFC is either. As I mentioned, since I have an admin view over all of the categories, I can see the trends, the results, and any shenanigans. I don't see any for DFC. Or Brad for that matter. 

Hard work pays. And I support it. I wish them all the best of luck.

We do have an Editor's Choice award for Amphibian Breeder of the Year as well. We haven't made that selection. The TRR staff will consider lots of factors, and probably consult some outside experts, including some nominees. We want to make a good choice. And I guarantee folks will tear it apart, cry foul, and say how dumb we are not to choose "So and So Frog.com". 

Can't win : ) And that is ok. We are still looking to recognize excellence. The very best frog breeder (or gecko breeder, or python breeder) is probably toiling away in his basement for the 38th year in a row, doing things others can't even comprehend. And he/she will continue to do that in secret, on purpose. 

We have a Reader's Choice award to recognize the reader's choice. A popularity contest, yep, most votes wins. But I don't see a single leader in ANY category that is not the result of hard work, dedication, and enthusiasm to participate. 

We work hard to send a ton of eyeballs to Dendroboard. I think it is a great forum. There is so much positivity out there, so many good things happening, so many great breeders to recognize, I think it is a waste of focus and energy to be so negative (not specifically Michael Shrom, I just chose to reply now). 

THE WHOLE POINT of the Awards is to recognize the folks working hard. I'm down for that every time.


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

Dendrobati is down 3 votes as of right now. Make sure you all vote daily!


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

As of this post they are tied


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

I find it unreal that they could close the gap on Dendrobati, but they did.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Trickishleaf said:


> I'm pretty sure it's just some publication that will the give winner a little more public exposure.
> 
> DFC is Dart Frog Connection. I don't wanna open that can of worms, but you can do a search on the boards... You'll quickly find out why no one wants them to win.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I did not know them, nor do I know of their reputation.


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

O.K. Some of us know it has no meaning!


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

It wasn't until December 16th that I found out that Dendrobati was nominated for Amphibian Breeder of the Year. Once I saw it, I reached out to Robyn and we exchanged a few emails. At that time the counts weren't public and I had no idea if Dendrobati even had a vote. 

Within the hour I created a quick email and sent it along to our mailing, informing our customers that we have been nominated and could use their vote. The responses I got from our customer base was unexpected at best. Many many replies came in saying that they've been voting for Dendrobati everyday since the first day of the contest. To me, this was touching, this was meaningful. The fact that so many customers were voting, unsolicited, meant the world to me. It said that they cared, that they appreciated what Dendrobati has done and what Dendrobati has stood for. For all of those to gave some of their time to vote, I sincerely thank you.

This isn't a Nobel prize, it's a readers choice award! It's intention is to allow people who care about the efforts of a nominee to show them. As of right now, a total of 112,458 votes have been cast between all categories. Readers are choosing! 

In 2013, we've worked very hard. We've breed some amazing frogs, some rare frogs, and some incredibly difficult to breed frogs. We've made available many frogs that our customers have greatly appreciated - frogs that people have rebuilt their collection upon. We've donated frogs and herp supplies to schools. We've help raise awareness of a fungus that threatens all of our collections, Chytrid. We've committed to helping a college research project by donating 500 swabs and collecting countless samples. We've answered countless emails regarding frog questions - some of which are questions about frogs from other vendors who won't answer questions once the transaction completes. Does all of this mean that we're the best breeder of the year? Of course not. However, it does mean that we have customers who want to support us and the award is a means to do so - this is meaningful to a lot of people.

If you find the contest to be meaningless, tasteless, or stupid, than don't participate. If the contest allows you to say thank you for an effort that you support, than by all means, get involved and cast your vote!

Does Dendrobati have a chance of winning? I didn't think so, then I did think so, and then I didn't again, but now I think so again! Win or not, I'm honored with the support that we have received. 

For all of those who have voted for us, we sincerely thank you! 

Brad


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Well said.

John


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

If someone would post pictures on this thread more people would read it 

TBH you all know my views. 

It is a public forum and social media based process and that means, like Robyn has said, those that have the time and talent for that sort of thing, and put in the work will do the best.

I think the honor of nomination is awesome, and to win means the social media community will see that and it has huge marketing potential. 

Now, I only know of DFC what has been posted on forums like this and honestly I think there are better breeders who deserve to win. There are some nominated with piles and decades of experience and know how who can teach us all a thing or two but they aren't social media powerhouses, nor do they work in huge markets like CA.

Anyway, I see the value in the process. I know Robyn works hard at this sort of thing and 'puts in the time'. He has always been very responsive to me and many of us use SYR for our shipping needs [His company].

I have put my backing behind Brad and Marta at Dendrobati, and they have a sincere chance of making us all proud.

I do wish the community here on Dendroboard, and those that follow me on Frog Whisperer would take a few seconds to vote each day. I know it would mean a lot to a small business like Dendrobati and to 'our' community.

We support each other right?

Now....make us proud


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## JWerner (Feb 17, 2004)

Well said Shawn.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I`m voting for 2-3 people every day till it`s over.

Why?

Because I want to.

John


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

As of this post dendrobati is behind by about 50 votes


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

hypostatic said:


> As of this post dendrobati is behind by about 50 votes


NOOOOOOO!!!

Oh well.... Brad and Marta will catch up, no worries


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I just voted for D* (Brad & Marta) and I noticed that, despite my vote, they were 1810 votes! Any concern?


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

rigel10 said:


> I just voted for D* (Brad & Marta) and I noticed that, despite my vote, they were 1810 votes! Any concern?


Thank you for voting, your votes are being counted. The total number of votes was setback for several people because someone took it upon themselves to try to boost the votes. TRR and their tech savvy team of course saw through this and they did the right thing, removing the votes. I reassure you that any legitimate votes that have been cast are counted. Proxy / Tor / Anonymizer votes are easily detected as there are list of know IP addresses for them. 

Let's all play nicely!


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Why wasn't *dART Frog Warehouse* nominated? I would think that with all the research they put into phenotyping and frogalities, not to mention the thousands of genetically superior frogs they produce, they should easily take this. Is there a write in option?




Brad and Marta- I've been voting for you even though I haven"t bought any of your frogs, just because I like the cut of your jib


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I have Zero faith in the legitimacy or accuracy of the vote in this contest anymore. Ive seen the vote counts jump around so much it's ridiculous. All due respect to the SYR team, but this process has become a farce.

This whole thing has never been anything more than a social media popularity contest anyways, and is zero measure of who actually represents a quality breeder in the hobby. We all know who they are and Dart frog Connection isn't one of them no matter how many votes they get.

Putting a west coast flipper and reseller who actually does very little actual breeding in the same contest as actual breeders is either a giant joke or an insult.

Brad and Martha, I'll still continue to vote for you guys, just because, but you, nor anyone else should loose any sleep if you don't win.


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

We have a huge amount of support! That means the world to us. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or last place, it doesn't matter. The fact that so many people took the time to vote as often as they could, that's worth a thousand awards! 

I truly like the contest and I'm glad that The Reptile Report did it. Regardless of the number of votes, I think that we all have learned a lot about each other in the process. 

Thanks everyone! 

Happy holidays!

Brad


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I think its rigged. Been voting dendrobati and josh


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

1) The voting looks completely irregular to me. Now DFC has hundreds of votes more?! 

2) This is just a way for TRR to drive page views and ad impressions. 

3) The legitimate thing to do is to appoint a panel of respected amphibian keepers and let them both nominate and elect a winner. Run it like the Oscars not American Idol.

4) I expect that TRR will illegitimtize this award if DFC wins. But if that's who they are willing to be associated with, that's their decision. If the numerous posts about DFC do not count, that's their decision. If it happens, I will pay no attention to this award in the future and it will have no impact on my buying behavior.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Tricolor said:


> I think its rigged. Been voting dendrobati and josh


I'm not willing to claim foul play just yet. I just think it seems terribly mismanaged. The vote count seems to yoyo up and down arbitrarily. Who is deciding what votes get deleted and why they're deemed illegitimate? Hopefully TRR learns from the problems this year and finds a better way to count legit votes in the future. 

The fact that DFC are even nominated tells me everything I need to know about this award anyway. You basically have a huge pool of uninformed voters(think MLB All Star Voting). I'm slightly less bothered by the rest of us voting for one candidate just to try and stick it to the bad guys. Instead of people actually deciding who we think are good breeders, what we now have is vote rigging for nefarious reasons. I'm not trying to say Dendrobati are not deserving, I'm just disappointed were having to pool our votes to offset the ignorant DFC voters.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

It's not fair that you can vote everyday. Folks should be able to vote from one email address...


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## KDuraiswamy (Dec 2, 2012)

Even if they want the process to be driven solely by nominations and to make it more public, I think it would be better if breeders were vetted after the initial nomination process and before the final vote.


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I have Zero faith in the legitimacy or accuracy of the vote in this contest anymore. Ive seen the vote counts jump around so much it's ridiculous. All due respect to the SYR team, but this process has become a farce.
> 
> This whole thing has never been anything more than a social media popularity contest anyways, and is zero measure of who actually represents a quality breeder in the hobby. We all know who they are and Dart frog Connection isn't one of them no matter how many votes they get.
> 
> ...


Votes should not be coming from Iran and a few other countries...


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

As of this post dendrobati is down ~300 votes


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Bump- get your asses over there and vote for Dendrobati at least

You can actually vote for each person once per day. so I've personally been voting for all the candidates except for DFC.


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## JayMillz (Jun 27, 2012)

I see Dendrobati being up by 75 votes now. Perhaps DFC had several deleted. I'm voting every day because it might come down to every vote making the difference.


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

just voted.... i've been voting daily!


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## T2theG (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm voting everyday for Dendrobati. 

It would be a shame to see DFC win this award.

Has anyone noticed that they are also winning Online Store of the Year? Something seems strange to me about all of this.

Hmmm......


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Not letting this die until after the holidays. Make sure you do your part to give a vote to Dendrobati.

This is your chance to give DFC a giant middle finger for the hobby. The hobby is coming together to support one of our own, and that, is frickin awesome.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Yep, sooner or later it will sink in.....you don`t f***k with Dendroboard.
Are you idiots in Tennessee listening?

John


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Just to bump the Link, Dendrobati is back in the lead. Keep up the votes 

2013 | The Reptile Report


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

Link: 2013 | The Reptile Report


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Yep, sooner or later it will sink in.....you don`t f***k with Dendroboard.
> Are you idiots in Tennessee listening?
> 
> John


My only regret is we didn't catch on to this farce sooner. You can vote for each candidate once per day. We could have all been voting for everyone else each day and have them dead last where they belong.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

ecichlid said:


> Link: 2013 | The Reptile Report


Thanks for keeping the link fresh throughout the page.


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## KRich Frogger (Feb 15, 2013)

DENDROBATI has my vote.....GL


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

KRich Frogger said:


> DENDROBATI has my vote.....GL


They are winning, but we have seen some pretty big lead changes swing either way as votes. Don't put it past DFC to make a big push at the end if we get complacent about supporting the real breeders.

Now is the time to put our foot on their neck and not let off.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I've been voting every day since stumbling onto this thread...glad that it has not been buried off the current, recent, posts because we are keeping it front and center....


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## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

I've been voting every day. Brad and Marta are running a solid operation; establishing programs for schools and running promos to get the community involved. Props to them!

(Not to take anything away from all the other great breeders on there like Mark, Shawn, Robert etc...)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

None of this really makes sense to me. I'm just saying.


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

Michael Shrom is an amazing guy. Who helped me a ton when I got started.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Trickishleaf said:


> I've been voting every day. Brad and Marta are running a solid operation; establishing programs for schools and running promos to get the community involved. Props to them!
> 
> (Not to take anything away from all the other great breeders on there like Mark, Shawn, Robert etc...)
> 
> ...


You can still vote for all the others too. The system let's you vote once a day for each person, so I've been giving a vote to everybody but DFC.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

But if DFC are so bad, why they have so many votes? Who votes them?
And then, I think, you should vote only one person.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

T2theG said:


> I'm voting everyday for Dendrobati.
> 
> It would be a shame to see DFC win this award.
> 
> ...





ZookeeperDoug said:


> They are winning, but we have seen some pretty big lead changes swing either way as votes. Don't put it past DFC to make a big push at the end if we get complacent about supporting the real breeders.
> 
> Now is the time to put our foot on their neck and not let off.


It's REAL fishy man. REAL fishy...

DFC will gain like several hundred votes at once it seems. Almost like all the voters are coordinated together or something...

And as of this post Dendrobati is behind ~50 votes


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

DFC has pulled ahead again.

Vote every day people.

s


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm showing Dendrobati up by 300+? 

Let's keep up the voting!!!


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Brian317 said:


> I'm showing Dendrobati up by 300+?
> 
> Let's keep up the voting!!!


The lead keeps changing. DFC is currently gaining again. We're not even close to out of the woods here and will have to remain diligent if we want Dendrobati to win.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Something else that is VERY suspect. They're also winning Online Store of the year and Show Booth of the year, but they haven't enjoyed even close to as much support in these categories, yet they're getting just enough support to stay close with Dendrobati in the Amphibian Breeder of the Year?


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

It seems like those contests that are here, where you vote by telephone: it is easy to cheat, inviting relatives and friends to vote. Without fault, of course, who announces the contest.
But - again - what good is this competition? What advertising return do you have, if all froggers know the reality and would never take frogs by some sellers?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm noticing that the ability to vote every day didn't seem to reset today. Can't vote today. Maybe it's every 24 hours - I'll check again later.

s


ZookeeperDoug said:


> The lead keeps changing. DFC is currently gaining again. We're not even close to out of the woods here and will have to remain diligent if we want Dendrobati to win.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I voted yesterday and today Scott


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Yeah, not sure why it didn't "reset" for me.

s


frogparty said:


> I voted yesterday and today Scott


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## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

Link: 2013 | The Reptile Report



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

I've been following this thread closely but trying to stay an arms length away. 

Thank you, everyone, who has voted. We truly appreciate all the pro dendrobati support. 

The one vote per day counter resets promptly at 12:00 AM UTC. Here's the times based on US time zones:

Eastern - 7:00 PM
Central - 6:00 PM
Mountain - 5:00 PM
Pacific - 4:00 PM

Again, thank you so much for all your support!

Brad


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

As we near the end of the voting window, we ask for everyone to rally and cast their votes for Amphibian Breeder of the Year. At the current time, DFC is a few hundred votes in the lead, with Dendrobati closely behind. 

We are making one last push asking people to get out and vote. Between Facebook, Dendroboard, and email, we should reach a few thousand people. Lets bring in another three or four thousand votes in the next 3 days!

Vote here: 2013 | The Reptile Report


Thank you,
Brad & Marta


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

DFC has the lead by a few hundred votes. Pull it together people

Vote every day!!!!!!!!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

when does this contest end??


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

Voting ended today.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...50479586.29953.159931317452086&type=1&theater


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## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

From the website:

*"The original final voting date was December 31st, but unfortunately, a way to cheat votes was discovered and published on Facebook today, and through a wide email. We have been monitoring the vote tallies for the entire month, and we have been policing and weeding out bad and wonky votes already. We also set aside a full week before announcing the Reader’s Choice Winners in order to analyze the voting logs for any issues."*


*"Reader’s Choice voting should be fun, and it is unfortunate that cheaters have to wreck a full month of voting. There are still over 200,000 votes of appreciation and support for lots of terrific nominees. We are proud to recognize a lot of great people in our hobby and industry!"*


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Yeah, I guarantee DFC knew the method mentioned.

s


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

That........that is unfortunate. We waited for the last days for the big push. 

Does anyone have any info on the post regarding how to cheat? 

Thanks for all your support!

Brad


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Check with DFC.

s


Dendrobati said:


> That........that is unfortunate. We waited for the last days for the big push.
> 
> Does anyone have any info on the post regarding how to cheat?
> 
> ...


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Dendrobati said:


> That........that is unfortunate. We waited for the last days for the big push.
> 
> Does anyone have any info on the post regarding how to cheat?
> 
> ...


In light of the cheating and ending the contest early without warning to contestants, they should kill the current contest and start over.

Some of us have been trying to point out the serious flaws in their design, mostly having it fall on deaf ears. I honestly don't know why. My expectation is that of all people TRR/SYR would be open to our input, but it seems not.

As for DFC, knowing about the cheat and using it, yes of course they did. I have zero doubt that if some of us were not as proactive in pointing out the anomalies, TRR wouldn't have even checked. I hope they pour over the data and can prove what parties were responsible. Brad publicly condemned those doing it to boost Dendrobati's votes. No such statement from DFC of course.

As a former amateurish hacker in the late 90s, I know perfectly well how easy it would be to rig voting and make it completely undetectable with the voting system they implemented. TRR really has their hands full on this one. Basically anyone with access to even a small bot net of infected home PCs could generated hundreds if not thousands of unique looking votes.

Of course a company that specializes in creating fabricated likes for Facebook pages wouldn't have any clue how to do anything like that.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

The thing the peeves me off the most in general, is that even though they might not win, they can still put "2013 breeder nominee" on their site.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Today on my pc no longer appears the icon that allows me to vote at the site of TRR, nor the number of votes of the competitors. What happened? Is the vote over?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

rigel10 said:


> Today on my pc no longer appears the icon that allows me to vote at the site of TRR, nor the number of votes of the competitors. What happened? Is the vote over?


Check the post by Donn, about 3/4 down on the previous page.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

rigel10 said:


> Today on my pc no longer appears the icon that allows me to vote at the site of TRR, nor the number of votes of the competitors. What happened? Is the vote over?


They ended the voting early. No idea who was leading when they ended it. There was a hack being used to allow people to vote multiple times. If they can prove any nominees were directly responsible for cheating, I hope they expose them and disqualify them. Nominees obviously have no control over what others do on their behaf but if they could say link IP addresses to computers owned or directly affiliated with a nominee being used in a nefarious manner, that would be perfect.


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## Calivet (Aug 12, 2013)

My take on this entire "contest" -

I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

DFC was winning right before Robyn told me he was ending early.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

JJuchems said:


> DFC was winning right before Robyn told me he was ending early.


Why am I not surprised....


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2009)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Why am I not surprised....


What does that mean exactly?


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> What does that mean exactly?


I don't think he is implying anything bad about you, but instead was simply venting about DFC. It's just a worst case scenario that came to life.


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2009)

FroggyKnight said:


> I don't think he is implying anything bad about you, but instead was simply venting about DFC. It's just a worst case scenario that came to life.


Ok, I can see that. Seemed sharp and pointy at first. And he is welcome to clarify. 

We have chosen our Editor's Choice winner (announced Jan 13th), as well as some Ed Choice Honorable Mentions. 

Still going through the voting logs for Reader's Choice voting. There is a chance that because of voting irregularities, in this category in particular, we may not be able to determine a fair winner. 

It would be a shame, because there are definitely some quality folks nominated. I don't see any nonsense at all for The Frog Whisperer, Robert Nhan, Understory, and others. Not fair that they may be overshadowed by others' overzealous pursuit of recognition.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

So now what...how do we post our displeasure with how this stupid popularity contest was run...and how the twisted results may have negative implications especially considering the "winner."? It is incumbent upon DB and other serious frog people, breeders, owner, the whole nine yards...to register complete displeasure about the "contest."...but guidance from the "elders" of DB would be a good start...let's not just throw in the towel, but make a very loud response...


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Is it like, ALL of the contestants that cheated? Or just one or two? If its just one or two, and one of them is the one with the most votes, they should be disqualified. Like, publicly disqualified on grounds of cheating.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> What does that mean exactly?


It's not directed at TRR or SYR, and has everything to do with DFC.

As Scott said it perfectly earlier,



> The only thing worse than the whole damn contest is the possibility that DFC might win.


That said, I stand by my criticisms of the contest, it being run on a piss poor platform, DFC even being allowed to a nominee, etc. etc. etc.

You cannot be blind to the fact that even mentioning them in the same sentence as groups like Understory is an absolute insult to this entire community. You created a platform with which to compare a thief, smuggler, and animal abuser with a criminal record to compete against some of the most well respected members of our community in a popularity contest. It's a big fat middle finger and poke in the eye.

I love what TRR and SYR have done for the herp community in general and will continue to use your services and support you, but that doesn't grant you immunity from criticism if I feel it is warranted, and in this case I think this contest, while well intentioned, was poorly thought out and planned.

It does suck that Some people cheated. We know Dendrobati got some nefarious votes on their behalf. They had the testicular fortitude to acknowledge it and asked for it to stop. DFC hasn't even hazarded one of their BS sales pitches to deny that they're involved or that they got bad votes as well, but we know they also did.

I hope next year you take a completely different tack with the contest especially in vetting nominees and insuring fair play.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Why am I not surprised....


Just wanted to clarify, since someone suggested something that I didn't consider. 

This was not intended to suggest or insinuate that TRR intentionally or purposefully ended the voting early with DFC in the lead so that they would win.


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

I don't even care. I voted for breeders that I'm familiar with because it seemed important to some of them. It is not at all important to me and has absolutely nothing to do with my decision of who I do business with.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Here is what is fun, 

Dendrobati - 187 likes on Facebook, garnered over 4k votes

DFC - 52,000 "likes", only a few hundred more votes

So Many ways to look at that. Of course the reality for DFC is that so few of their likes are actual followers or even real.

But what is obvious is that this community banded behind one of our own AGAINST DFC in a true community effort across forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc. TRR may not declare them the winner, hell they may not even be the real deserving winner, but this community has won.


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

told ya it was rigged way back. dfc should not even been on that list


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

This contest was bogus! Between the cheating and ending early,it's just not a fair contest.It should be redone and monitored for cheating,or the cheaters DQ'd.Sorry but dfc doesn't deserve to even be nominated,never mind even being in the running.


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2009)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Just wanted to clarify, since someone suggested something that I didn't consider.
> 
> This was not intended to suggest or insinuate that TRR intentionally or purposefully ended the voting early with DFC in the lead so that they would win.


Thanks for that. I thought that was what you meant, and that wasn't true : )

This was the first year for Reader's Choice nominations. I didn't anticipate that folks would want to cheat so badly, or even win so badly. Very interesting. 

This is a yearly event, next year we will take further steps to protect the Reader's Choice voting from manipulation.

The Best of Awards have been incredibly popular, and overall very positive and productive. No one has been named a winner yet, nor has the Editor's Choice winner been named (coming Jan. 13th).

This is a great forum, we are a sponsor, we send a ton of eyeballs here to check it out, there is a ton of great content here. I understand that many of you have some very strong feelings about many of the vendors on this side of the industry.


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

No winner due to shenanigans. Figured I'd update this if anybody is curious.

"Unfortunately because of voting shenanigans we are unable to declare a clear winner in the Reader’s Choice Amphibian Breeder of the Year category. There are some excellent nominees below, please take a moment to look into the great work that is still being done by some excellent amphibian breeders."


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