# New 18g high



## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Well, here are some pics of my just-assembled 18g high (20" x 10" x 20"). As always, they look much better if you enlarge them!

First, a shot with just the substrate (leca, coco bedding) and a hodgepodge of different woods: cork bark, grapewood, and 2 kinds of driftwood. And the light just balanced catty-corner on the frame. Doesn't look very promising, but I'm counting on the plants to tie it together:











And, I think they do!










Although it looks a little busy to me. I've been collecting plants for some time and seem to have put a little of everything in there. Oh, well, we'll just see what looks the best and does the best as they grow (or don't):

I realize that purists won't like the crypts as epiphytes, but I've had good luck keeping them colored up like that so I'm no longer a purist...

Here's the tank under a different, warmer light:










The right side:










And the left side:










I still have to move it to its stand, refill the false bottom/pond area, etc. Well, that's it so far!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

It looks great. My kinda style of desing and what not. Very cool.

Can I make a comment? Cryptanthus are terrestrial speices and would do *better* that way. Now saying that, I can also say that I've seen them grow epiphytically and sometimes they do okay. I think Jordan B has one growing epiphytically.

Great look viv though. The Cissus discolor looks great up there.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Great looking viv!

Ill second Antones Cryptanthus comment.


Also I luv how you dont actually have background but have the wood placed well and in a few months you wont even notice that it dont have a background!

Nice work!!!



Todd


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Frogtofall said:


> Can I make a comment? Cryptanthus are terrestrial speices and would do *better* that way. Now saying that, I can also say that I've seen them grow epiphytically and sometimes they do okay. I think Jordan B has one growing epiphytically.


Yep, I have one growing terrestrially in my quinquevittatus tank and one growing epiphytically in one of my pumilio tanks, and the epiphytic one is doing much better than the terrestrial one. 

Terrestrial one:









Epiphytic one pupping!:



























That is a very nice tank, you should be proud of of it!

Jordan


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I'll make an observation on Jordan's tank. The epiphytic one is apparently doing better b/c its getting direct light whereas the terrestrial one is being blocked by the big brom. It also looks like the terrestrial one is gettingmore water than it probably should.

Either way, they will grow. They seem to be pretty hardy.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks for the nice comments, everyone! Jordan, my experience has been like yours. I know Antone is correct about the light & moisture, and that's why my crypts do better as epiphytes! Sooner or later, I seldom have much light getting through to the substrate. Maybe if I used bigger tanks...I can't say I'm too scientific a planner--basically, I try to fit wood in a tank in a pleasing way, and then add the plants I have wherever they seem to fit best. Not everything works perfectly but I've come to appreciate that these are dynamic systems and change over time...sometimes more quickly than others!  

Jordan that's a beautiful crypt, BTW! I've had similar luck with one that's been an epiphyte in a 10 vert for over a year--in fact, one of its pups is in the new viv. And my intermedius do sleep amongst its leaves.

I do have a 20 long to overhaul next, however, so perhaps I'll have more floorspace with that one...until everything grows in, at least...  

Todd, I'm glad that all styles are appreciated here. I love the look of the Great Stuff vivs but am just not up for trying it. The 18h is going to sit in front of a plain painted wall, and I've been happy with "backgroundless" tanks in similar locations before.

Thanks again, everyone!


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## Steve (Apr 8, 2006)

That tank looks really great. It always amazes me how with the right wood and the right sized plants a relatively small space can look so big.

Maybe i pick the plants and wood too big and the tanks too small as mine always seem like a push to squeeze a few fruit fly's in.. lol :roll: 

Steve


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## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

looking hot mamma!!!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2006)

Diane, wow! I can't believe that the first pic and the second pic are the same tank! It always amazes me how much plants make a difference!


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Cesar, oh, I know! I wasn't sure but what I'd have to hold off till I could locate more wood at first--that light colored piece of driftwood had me worried. OTOH, except for its color it was a great fit and nice and lightweight. I don't even notice the color now, and of course it will only get better as things grow in and it "weathers."

But part of the problem is not having very good "before" pics. I always intend to document everything, then get too caught up in the process...unlike the great job you're doing documenting your verts.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2006)

I got caught up in the end with fixing the tank up and missed a few steps. Oh well at least I got the important parts down.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I really like this tank. I think it's a better execution of the half land/water with a covered area than my 25g. It'll probably be a while until I have to build another tank, but I'll keep this one in mind for a refference. 



> But part of the problem is not having very good "before" pics. I always intend to document everything, then get too caught up in the process...unlike the great job you're doing documenting your verts


I know that one all too well. It's really hard to document when you're winging it.


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## mystah (Jul 17, 2006)

*Nice Job*

I have been collecting all the parts necessary to start building my first viv


What or how did you anchor the plants to the driftwood?


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Defaced,

Wow, praise from hobbyists like you (& Antone) is pretty humbling. Personally, I think I just got lucky with the way my collected parts & plants went together! 

I always get a little paralyzed before starting, because I'm afraid I'll screw everything up. As I said earlier, the best thing that happened after my first experiences was the realization that these systems are dynamic and change is not only possible, it's usually inevitable. And what works long term is frequently a matter of experimentation...as well as research, of course...

mystah--Boy, that has to be one of the most frequently asked questions, and sometimes it seems as if there are as many answers as there are hobbyists. And there are different techniques for sticking broms to great stuff type backgrounds and tank side walls, as well. So in addition to whatever I can offer, you will get a lot out of searching on this topic--if you can get the search function to work for you, of course! 

In this particular tank I got very lucky in that the wood I used had many natural furrows and splits into which I could just tightly wedge the brom stolons. In my first viv, I made the mistake of wrapping brom bases with wads of damp sphagnum before attachment to branches, and I rotted out a couple of them that way. Now I may use just a little sphagnum at the base to help hold them in place, but they do very well in just plain wood.

Cork bark is easy to drill little holes into, in which brom stolons can be wedged:









(See the end of the stolon sticking out the side.)

Here's a brom I was able to wedge into an existing split in the grapewood:










I was also lucky in that the _N. pimientas _and _mariposas _(which I got from Will at TheFrogFarm.net) came attached in pairs. The stolon connecting them was easy to place between a couple of connecting branches and let me wedge in two broms at the same time. (My other plants came from Cloud Jungle, T & C Terrariums, and local stores. There are just so many great vendors to choose from!)

In my other viv, in which I wanted to affix broms to hard-to-drill pieces of driftwood, I actually used rubber bands, tastefully disguised with a little sphagnum.  If you use a couple, at different angles, you can get the brom oriented the way you want it. The rubber bands will eventually break, though, so you hope your brom has attached itself with roots by then. I've also used monofilament with success to tie broms to certain branches...and even a green twist tie, which could be hidden between the leaves of a certain brom...

(BTW, when I say drill, I don't mean I broke out the Black & Decker! Although one could, of course...But I grabbed something closer, which happened to be a paring knife...well, cork bark _is_ soft!  My son's had good luck drilling holes with a corkscrew...)


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Well, in the category of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing..." I've been having fun experimenting with some of my camera settings, but then sometimes I forget to change them when I should. Yesterday I realized that all the previous shots had been taken with the White Balance still set to "Daylight" from a previous photo outing. Sigh. Wondered why the colors didn't look right under either light.

Now, in addition to resetting the WB (to fluorescent), I have acquired a new light. After reading so many recommendations, I decided to try the famous "twisty" daylight compact fluorescent. Wow! So much light! (May have to lower my crypts, after all!  ) Anyway, here's what the new light (& the right WB setting--I think) make it look like:










I actually had to lower the exposure so as not to overexpose the upper reaches:










I think I want to find a way to raise the light!


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## Tadpole4 (Mar 16, 2006)

WOW! Diane, I love your style :wink: I modeled my first Vert after the journal you posted and now if I ever get to build another viv I will use more ideas from this viv. I really like the natural look, and dthe way you used the wood to creat depth.

Great VIV!


Suggestion: I epoxied a T shaped piece of plastic to the back of my tank and then clamped the lamp onto the plastic. that raised the light up off the tank and reduced the heat inside and spread the light out more to cover a greater area of the tank.











I look forward to seeing what you put in there :wink:


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Exceptionally beautiful tank, in my opinion. And no great stuff to deal with - A+ from me.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

*New 18g high--UPDATE*

Well, when I left for vacation on July 31, I was a little worried. I had agonized over using grapewood in this viv, as I'd had one bad experience with it before. But after weeks of searching for nice pieces of wood, I finally ended up using a couple of pieces of it, as it was the nicest shaped, gnarliest kind I was able to find. I soaked each piece in water for a few days, first, and then dried it outside for another few days. And hoped for the best...

But, soon after assembling this viv, both pieces began to sprout an ominous coating of mold. I know, mold is a natural part of a new set-up, etc., etc., but there's mold...and then there's grapewood mold...

I spooned in some springtails, gave my daughter instructions on how to spray and monitor things while I was gone, and held my breath when I returned and took my first look at things. I was delighted to find this:










The mold appears to be well under control, and the springtails have multiplied like crazy! Wow. Sometimes things actually work out the way you want them to...  

And the plants are doing well so far, too. I just LOVE this rainbow selaginella, _S. uncinata_ (from Cloud Jungle). Depending on the angle of the light, it's either green or blue and always almost psychedelic in its brilliance:



















The _Fittonia_:










And the coffee leaves, which always look like they've been polished:


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Jean (Tadpole4),

Thanks so much for the nice comments. It isn't particularly obvious in the shots, but I managed to get all the wood pieces braced together and touching all four walls of the tank, so that the framework is very sturdy (stands up well to tank moves) and it does utilize the full tank width and depth.

And thanks so much for the reminder on your light support strategy! I think I have exactly the same piece of plastic left over from a ready-made screen top, and I will definitely try it.

Josh,

Many thanks for the super nice comments! BTW, most of those springtails came from the culture I just got from you. Also, the ff culture you sent was producing flies by the gazillion when we got back from vacation. I know it was very helpful as my daughter nursed everything through the awful heat last week here in MI.


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## 013 (Aug 9, 2006)

Great looking tank! I think you did an amazing job combining all these plants in a relatively small space. I know how hard it is. 

I've got my eyes on that Selanginella species too. Does it grow fast?


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks!

I can't say too much about the growth rate of the _S. uncinata_ yet, as it's only been in place about 3 weeks. I think it has sprouted some nice new foliage, but, typically, I don't really have a "before" pic that's good enough for comparison.

I can say, though, that it ships beautifully and remains lush and hardy some 20+ inches below the light source.


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## Tookay (Jul 20, 2006)

I too love your sensibility, Diane. I like how you really use the volume of the tank (taking notes!)

I too have had bad experiences with grapewood. Quickly went from looking nice and gnarled to just plain gnarly. I like your springtail solution.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks for the nice words, Nate, and as for the springtail "solution," I can't say the final word is in, yet. The springs are still thriving, but so is the mold. Right now I'd say it's at a level I can live with, so we'll see what happens from here on.

Wanted to post a few shots of how things have been growing in, now that it's been a little more than 3.5 weeks since set up. First, one of the last shots of it when first assembled:










And as it looks now:










And a little closer:










As you can see, some things have already taken hold well and are growing nicely. The _Cissus discolor_ is still as nicely colored as when I first got it, but in the latest shots I'd just sprayed the viv, which temporarily masks the color contrast in these leaves. It was a cutting when I rec'd it, and I probably rushed things by placing it immediately in a rather spartan spot; it lost a few lower leaves but has grown tons of roots and is sending out new leaves now. 

You may have also noticed that some of the reddish Neos have lost some color. I hope this relates to the fact that my daughter kept all tank hoods off during the heat-wave week while I was on vacation--because my new "twisty" CF light seems bright as Einstein to me. It's possible, though, that their brilliant colors when rec'd were due to being grown in sunlight. In that case, I think I'll just learn to appreciate them in their greener states...

I'm getting used to the bright light, but may try putting a black backing behind the tank if growing plants don't cut down on the light reflection off the wall behind the tank. I like my intermedius tank (with an ESU CF hood) against these walls, but this twisty light makes the background too obvious for my tastes...Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the light so far.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Great looking tank... I really need to get back to tank building...


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

Stunning!

Welcome to the Viv's without backrounds club! I really like that Selaginella, I'm going to have to keep that in mind for my next endeavor.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Ah, Jason, nice to hear from you! Thanks. Your set up continues to be the Holy Grail of vivs, "backgroundless" or not...I just enjoyed reviewing your thread on it.


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Very nice tank! You've really got a nice handle of how to place wood---something that continues to scare me. Seeing the wood placement really does make me want to put some wood in my new viv.... so I just might have to do that.  Beautiful!


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

c'est ma said:


> Ah, Jason, nice to hear from you! Thanks. Your set up continues to be the Holy Grail of vivs, "backgroundless" or not...I just enjoyed reviewing your thread on it.


Haha, its definitely not that good! I just got lucky and found a good piece of driftwood 

I like yours just as much, if not more so, than mine.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

update? please!


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

i agree the the above 
pleeeease?


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Well...the news isn't good...sigh...

Let me do this in steps. Since the last pics on this thread were taken when the tank had just be set up, mid-August-ish, here are some shots when it was still perc-ing right along. By November I was very pleased with the way things were developing:

(11/10/06)









Thus far the only real glitch I'd had was losing the _Cissus discolor_, which had first sent out some good looking roots & new foliage, then just sort of up and crashed. I replaced it with a couple of brom pups I picked up at Midwest Frog Fest (upper left corner).

Another fts, nearly a month later (11/02/06). By this time I'd also added a _Myrmecodia echinata_, mounted on a small cork slab--oh, and, BTW, a pair of MC pumilio! One of which is visible here:










And on 11/7:










A closer look at the new broms, the ant plant, and the stars of the show...  :










The female MC on 11/10, showing also how well the moss & selaginella were doing:










In late November the frogs began laying eggs, and it was only then, while trying to get pics of the first batch of eggs through the right side of the tank that I noticed a bad scale infection on the _Neo. mariposas_!!! In this shot, in which I was trying to get a good pic of the developing eggs, you can see the scale on the back of the blurrier brom leaves in the middle and left foreground (11/17/06):










@#%$^*&[email protected]#%, I thought to myself..._why_ didn't I notice this earlier?!?! It has to have been there ever since the plants were first added back in August. And because I was so happy with the way this tank went together, I'd been watching it extremely closely, taking lots of pics, etc. 

And here I'd been so proud of myself for actually having set up a tank and waited nearly 3 months before adding livestock! 

And I will admit...   ...until this happened to me, I'd always sort of felt that some of us (*cough* Chris ["Grassypeak"], e.g.) were maybe a little too anal for bleaching their plants...

So, I guess I deserved what I got. Pride goeth before a fall...

But of course I did inspect & wash my plants, at least...so I have to think the scale was very sparse at first and probably buried deep in the brom axils...

I also was a little overconfident because my broms came from various DB vendors...and I'm not going to mention any names, because I'm not blaming the vendor(s). Having (been forced to) give the issue a little thought, I've realized that pests might be inescapably _more_ likely to come in on vendor plants as they are mostly scrupulous about not using any pesticides...and I'm sure the scale was very well hidden when I rec'd the plants...

(BTW, it was not "Mr. Brom" (Antone)--I feel compelled to say this as he seems to be the first vendor that comes to mind when one thinks "broms.")

Well, of course, now that the frogs were breeding and laying eggs on the very broms that were infested, I was very loath to go in and disturb the tank in any way. So now I can tell you that, at least in my case, scale seems to have a rather exponential growth curve. It started so hidden as to be undetectable, appearing only months after set-up, then seemed to get more and more obvious every day, till it began to spread through the tank and decimate many more broms...

When I feel up to it, I'll post some after shots--after devastation, that is...


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

> (BTW, it was not "Mr. Brom" (Antone)--I feel compelled to say this as he seems to be the first vendor that comes to mind when one thinks "broms.")


*Wipes sweat from forehead*

:|


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## Axl (Dec 9, 2006)

Hi!
"C'est ma", how many k is it the vivarium light?.
Bye!.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Im very sorry to hear that. Ive had luck placing vegetable oil on the scale with an ear swab, with frogs in the tank. I didnt have a very large outbreak, but it seemed to slow down the scale until I maybe see one every couple of weeks.


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

very nice! were did you get the 18 high at?


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Sorry about the scale  


But your viv looks great all the while!


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Very nice looking tank. I'd advise you to look your other plants over very carefully, because odds are that if one plant has scale, there will be others as well. There are ways of removing scale, but none that I know of that wouldn't be risky for frogs, so you may have to remove the plants and treat them outside the tank, then put them back once the scale is gone.


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