# First Viv Under Construction! 18x18x24 (Feedback Welcome)



## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Hey all. So I’m starting from scratch after scraping all the silicone from a bad silicone job (rookie mistake), and I’d love some feedback as I build. Doing the Great Stuff + cork bark method on an 18x18x24.

I have one Dendrobates auratus waiting patiently for his new home.

Before I GS this stuff in, how does my cork placement look? I’m going to trim down the hollow piece on the right side so it’s not so close to the door. I thought it might be a fun tunnel for him to explore.

The photo angle makes it look like everything is higher than it is — the bottoms of the horizontal log is about 6 inches from the bottom of the viv.

Also would love thoughts if I should silicone the cork to the glass first, or just use GS to adhere it.

I’ll post more pics as the build comes along.

Thanks!


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## gonzalez (Mar 28, 2018)

I recommend siliconing egg grate to the glass when building a gs foam background, because it doesn’t like sticking to glass very well, especially over time. I would personally silicone down the tubes that stick out and attach the flat pieces with just foam. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

gonzalez said:


> I recommend siliconing egg grate to the glass when building a gs foam background, because it doesn’t like sticking to glass very well, especially over time. I would personally silicone down the tubes that stick out and attach the flat pieces with just foam.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you referring to siliconing egg crate for the drainage layer? Or using egg crate behind the background? Just want to make sure I understand what part of the build you mean.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Another option is to skip the great stuff, and just use silicone on glass. I discuss how I do it here:

Peat and silicone background build
Gonzalez was referencing that you attach egg crate to the glass and then apply great stuff as part of the background since great stuff doesn't always adhere well to glass.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Another option is to skip the great stuff, and just use silicone on glass. I discuss how I do it here:
> 
> Peat and silicone background build
> Gonzalez was referencing that you attach egg crate to the glass and then apply great stuff as part of the background since great stuff doesn't always adhere well to glass.


OK, I like this option waaaay better. I wasn’t looking forward to playing with Great Stuff and trying to carve and all that. Since my cork fills a lot of the background already, siliconing peat in the empty space sounds much easier. 

I have a mix of coco husk, peat and bark for the background filler — think that will be ok? Or should I pick up some straight-up peat?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

kate_stpaul said:


> OK, I like this option waaaay better. I wasn’t looking forward to playing with Great Stuff and trying to carve and all that. Since my cork fills a lot of the background already, siliconing peat in the empty space sounds much easier.
> 
> I have a mix of coco husk, peat and bark for the background filler — think that will be ok? Or should I pick up some straight-up peat?


Your mix will work fine. I use straight peat because it's what I have on hand.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Feedback welcome and appreciated. 🙂 The background is coming along nicely. Worked out some kinks between the first round (the back) and the second (the right side):

Switched to black silicone, which is way easier to smear on thick to create more dimension
Wore gloves and a mask
I’m happy with how the little tunnel on the right side came out. I plan to put another one on the left side, maybe a little lower. The bark chunks in my peat mix seem to give the background a lot more texture, which I like. I’ll go back over any areas that need more coverage — there are a few spots where the clear silicone wasn’t thick enough.

My potential plant lineup so far:

Debating between using the golden pothos or aglaonema “red gold” (but not both)
Ficus elasticus “Ruby”
Fittonia albivinus
White rabbit’s foot fern
Cryptanthus carnosus (earth star)
Neoregelia “Mo Peppa Please”
Neoregelia “Fireball”
I think I might try to find a low-growing trailing/vining plant for the foreground. Tackling the left side of the background later today. Thoughts so far?


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Day 3: All three sides are siliconed in. I'm going to fill in crevices and gaps with New Zealand sphagnum moss. I have some Chilean sphag moss on-hand, but I'm reading that dart frogs tend to prefer the NZ moss because it's softer and doesn't stick to their feet as easily. 

I also have a nice piece of staghorn wood and jungle wood to place across the middle area to help get more use out of the middle of the viv. Those will go in once I have the substrate and plants in, since I'm not going to silicone them in.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Looks great. What are you planning on using for the false bottom?

Edit:
I also noticed you didn't drill your tank. I strongly suggest doing this before you go any further.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

@JasonE has given some good advice. You'll want to have your drainage plans figured out before you go and further


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

JasonE said:


> Looks great. What are you planning on using for the false bottom?
> 
> Edit:
> I also noticed you didn't drill your tank. I strongly suggest doing this before you go any further.


I already have a bunch of LECA, so I’m going to use that for the false bottom. I’ll look around on the forum for drilling recommendations to make sure I get that part right (unless you have some quick advice to offer 🙂) — thanks for calling that out!

I did read that some people siphon out the drainage water by mounting a tube in the drainage layer instead — but having a drainage hole is probably easier to deal with in the long run, yes?


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## gonzalez (Mar 28, 2018)

It is well worth the effort to just go ahead and drill the tank. Don’t subject yourself to having to siphon it out, especially with a false bottom like Leca that doesn’t hold as much water as others.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

I just remembered that a good friend used to be a glass artist and has lots of experience cutting glass (likely drilling it too). So I have some in-person expertise to help me with the drilling. I found a great thread on drilling glass, too, so I'll keep looking for how to create the rest of the drainage hole setup after drilling is done.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

+ 1 on getting the tank drilled for external drainage. You can do it yourself, cheaply and easily. Or you can ask a friend. Maybe the best would be to have the friend provide moral support and guidance - in person - while you do it. Seriously, it's empowering.



> I already have a bunch of LECA, so I’m going to use that for the false bottom.


A word of caution here. LECA is a pretty strong wicker. Two inches of LECA with a half inch of water standing in the bottom (I assume you will drain out the back, not the bottom, so you will _probably_ always have a little water in there) *will result in* water creeping up the dry LECA. All the way up. So if all you have between the LECA and your "soil" is a piece of window screen, you are likely to have saturated "soil". That is (and this is where "_probably_" comes in, from above) _unless_ you keep the viv dry enough to not have any water in the bottom, which you might be able to accomplish. But - that might be too dry for the frog. And that would obviate the need for drilling. Honestly it's easiest to have excellent-draining "soil", a drilled tank, enough water input to keep a little water in the bottom, and a reliable wicking break.

So - I think you'd be well-served to install a better wicking gap than LECA can offer. Personally I like Matala, and skip the LECA (which I use only in potted plants, and in trickle filtering). You can keep the LECA if you top it with a piece of eggcrate / light diffuser, or even a single layer of pot scrubbies or some other "plastic floss". And whetever you use atop (or instead of) the LECA, put your window screen atop that wick-breaker layer.



good luck!


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

More, on plants:



> My potential plant lineup so far:
> 
> Debating between using the golden pothos or aglaonema “red gold” (but not both)
> Ficus elasticus “Ruby”
> ...


Aglaonema, for sure, over pothos. Yours a small viv, relative to plant size. Pothos _grows_ under viv conditions. You will get _truly sick_ of all the haircuts it needs. I've got a happy one in a 36x24x18 snake viv and man, I'm in there a few times a month taking serious pieces off that thing. Gaaahhhhh don't do it! I also have a few Aglaonemas in my vivs, and they are MUCH better behaved than any pothos ever was.

Also - skip the rubber tree. Rubber tree. Tree. *Tree*. Don't put a tree in a small viv, unless you want to save a few bucks and avoid buying a large-sized houseplant. They really jump in a viv - it's a good way to make a small plant much bigger, fast. Just be prepared for the work of pulling it from the viv and potting it up for home display. If you don't want a big rubber tree in your house, don't put a small one in a viv.

Fittonia can actually be pretty rowdy if made really happy. The stems root, so when they elongate and droop and touch the ground, well, you've got a crawler / assertive ground cover. I understand that leaf litter is what the frog folks say is the best ground cover (I keep snakes, don't ask me - I also appreciate and use leaf litter as a ground cover though). Anyway, I have actually found Fittonia to require a bit more haircuts than I like giving. That is in 24" cube vivs. They just want to totally fill the bottom half. Grr. Ha ha.

The fern is a cutie. Eventually it can get pretty big, but these are easy to keep confined. Just cut off the "legs" every couple of months. No biggie. I love the rhizomatous ferns in general.

Personally I love the epiphytic broms. Never done any earth stars - I don't have many plants on my ground.

Again - good luck!


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

jgragg said:


> So - I think you'd be well-served to install a better wicking gap than LECA can offer. Personally I like Matala, and skip the LECA (which I use only in potted plants, and in trickle filtering). You can keep the LECA if you top it with a piece of eggcrate / light diffuser, or even a single layer of pot scrubbies or some other "plastic floss". And whetever you use atop (or instead of) the LECA, put your window screen atop that wick-breaker layer.


Hm ... ok. All the extra setup involved with LECA is making my head spin a bit here. 🙂 And I've read a lot about using eggcrate and PVC, so I get how that works. So if I were to switch the plan and use Matala, it sounds like it's a drainage layer and screen in one. Would I want to put something between it and the substrate, like a substrate barrier or some other thin layer? I'm using ABG for substrate.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

jgragg said:


> Aglaonema, for sure, over pothos. I also have a few Aglaonemas in my vivs, and they are MUCH better behaved than any pothos ever was.


That's great advice, thank you.  I like the color variation of the aglaonema more than the pothos, too. I definitely don't want something to overtake the small viv that I have to trim back frequently.



jgragg said:


> I understand that leaf litter is what the frog folks say is the best ground cover (I keep snakes, don't ask me - I also appreciate and use leaf litter as a ground cover though).
> 
> The fern is a cutie. Eventually it can get pretty big, but these are easy to keep confined. Just cut off the "legs" every couple of months. No biggie. I love the rhizomatous ferns in general.


I read more about this after pondering my first plant lineup -- I don't want to cover the ground too much in greenery because leaf litter is preferable for little froggie feet, and I'll be able to see him better against the contrast of the brown leaves. 

My fern is looking a little sad right now, so I'm hoping it'll survive, even if we just keep it as a house plant. I love the little rhyzomes. I have a saginella serpens (spikemoss) arriving today, that I might swap out the fittonia for -- the foliage is more delicate, so it might be a less obtrusive-looking foreground option. 

Ficus is out. I love the look of the earth stars, and they're a type of brom but are planted in soil. I might try to grow one in some spag moss up off the floor and see how that goes. 

Thanks again for the great suggestions!


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

You would want to put a piece of window screen / garden screen between the matala and the substrate, as far as I know. I don't use matala for my builds (really, really expensive in Canada)


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> You would want to put a piece of window screen / garden screen between the matala and the substrate, as far as I know.


Yes, exactly right. There are 4 different Matala colors, each corresponding to a different pore size. The black has the biggest holes; that is what I usually buy, mostly because it's black & unobtrusive (gray is my 2nd choice - I don't care for the blue or green, I think they are rather garish). I suppose the finest-pore Matala - whatever color that is, I forget - might require no screen but I've never handled it in person so I don't know. Anyway, Matala is great because it doesn't compress and it also doesn't wick. So it can just lay in the water on the bottom of the tank, as long as the lowest elevation of your drain is below the top of the Matala. No need for PVC "feet" or anything.



> My fern is looking a little sad right now, so I'm hoping it'll survive, even if we just keep it as a house plant. I love the little rhyzomes. I have a saginella serpens (spikemoss) arriving today, that I might swap out the fittonia for -- the foliage is more delicate, so it might be a less obtrusive-looking foreground option.


Many of the rhizomatous ferns sulk as houseplants if you don't baby them with watering (they hate to be too dry) but really, really, and I mean REALLY love life as a viv-dweller. They are easy to keep happy in a humid situation.

Spikemosses have a varied reputation. It seems people either kill them, or have them get a little weedy. Once again it's all in the water - they like plenty of water. I have the peacock kind, and I have learned how to kill it and also how to make it weedy (put it on or under a drip wall). It's all about the water. It also throws roots from its spreading stems. If they touch moist substrate they will grab and live, otherwise the spreading stem just sort of crisps up. 

good luck!


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

kate_stpaul said:


> I already have a bunch of LECA, so I’m going to use that for the false bottom. I’ll look around on the forum for drilling recommendations to make sure I get that part right (unless you have some quick advice to offer 🙂) — thanks for calling that out!
> 
> I did read that some people siphon out the drainage water by mounting a tube in the drainage layer instead — but having a drainage hole is probably easier to deal with in the long run, yes?


I used to use drainage tubes. It's a giant pain. Drilling those terrariums are failry easy. You can get a bulk head and the glass drilling bits on amazon. I got a box of various sizes for like $12, which allowed me to drill for my drainage and misting heads.

Drilling is fairly easy. You want to find a water ring for glass drilling (again, amazon) to hold water over the hole. Other than that, tape the opposite side of the glass you're drilling from with painters/masking tape to prevent chipping. Take the bit in at an angle until you have it started and let the weight of the drill do the work. It takes a minute or two to get through the 1/4" glass. I still recommend looking at other threads on it to get a more detailed explanation of the drilling process.



fishingguy12345 said:


> You would want to put a piece of window screen / garden screen between the matala and the substrate, as far as I know. I don't use matala for my builds (really, really expensive in Canada)


Yes. Matala is porous and if it gets jammed with substrate it won't drain the way it needs to.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I stopped using Matala once I figured out that aquarium filter foam does the same thing for way cheaper and is easier to cut and doesn't need a barrier under ABG.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

JasonE said:


> Drilling is fairly easy. You want to find a water ring for glass drilling (again, amazon) to hold water over the hole. Other than that, tape the opposite side of the glass you're drilling from with painters/masking tape to prevent chipping. Take the bit in at an angle until you have it started and let the weight of the drill do the work. It takes a minute or two to get through the 1/4" glass. I still recommend looking at other threads on it to get a more detailed explanation of the drilling process.


Thanks for the tips! My friend who used to work with glass all the time has all the tools and is going to help me. What size hole for drainage do you recommend? I haven't seen many posts about the size, but one poster said they do 16mm and put it about 1.5" up from the bottom of the tank

I think I'm going to hand-mist for now, since I only have one viv and it's small. It's a good practice to help my kiddo learn some more pet and plant care responsibility, too. 

I have a sheet of the black low-density Matala on the way ... should be arriving some time next week. The viv still has a very faint acetic acid smell, so waiting for the Matala will give it a few more days to cure.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I stopped using Matala once I figured out that aquarium filter foam does the same thing for way cheaper and is easier to cut and doesn't need a barrier under ABG.


I'll keep that in mind for my next viv.  Is that the Poret foam? 

I found black Matala on eBay and I only need one piece to cover 18x18 of surface, and fiberglass window screen is like $6 at Menards.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

kate_stpaul said:


> Thanks for the tips! My friend who used to work with glass all the time has all the tools and is going to help me. What size hole for drainage do you recommend? I haven't seen many posts about the size, but one poster said they do 16mm and put it about 1.5" up from the bottom of the tank
> 
> I think I'm going to hand-mist for now, since I only have one viv and it's small. It's a good practice to help my kiddo learn some more pet and plant care responsibility, too.
> 
> I have a sheet of the black low-density Matala on the way ... should be arriving some time next week. The viv still has a very faint acetic acid smell, so waiting for the Matala will give it a few more days to cure.


I actually recommend hand misting for new keepers. It helps in the learning process and experience. I actually sent you a PM with a link to the bulkhead I use. If your friend has everything you'll just need to find the appropriate hole size. I think my bulkhead is around an inch.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

kate_stpaul said:


> I'll keep that in mind for my next viv.  Is that the Poret foam?
> 
> I found black Matala on eBay and I only need one piece to cover 18x18 of surface, and fiberglass window screen is like $6 at Menards.


You have menards up there? They are one of the few places that sells a 100% silicone in black. It's my go-to place for silicone.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

JasonE said:


> You have menards up there? They are one of the few places that sells a 100% silicone in black. It's my go-to place for silicone.


Yes, we do! I'm in the state right next to its homebase HQ of Wisconsin, so my metro area is inundated with them.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

kate_stpaul said:


> Yes, we do! I'm in the state right next to its homebase HQ of Wisconsin, so my metro area is inundated with them.


Right on. They're all over Kansas too. Both of my kids worked for them at different points.


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## jeffkruse (Jun 5, 2018)

I live in CO. I have to add water to my false bottom to keep the humidity up. I drilled several tanks and I siliconed in a 1/4 tube coming up the back and through the top of the tank in other tanks. I find the tube much better. You can drain all the water out vs not all of it. It's very easy and you don't risk cracking the glass. It's even cheaper. YMMV


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

kate_stpaul said:


> I'll keep that in mind for my next viv.  Is that the Poret foam?



I use whatever foam on Amazon comes in the size I need, like this:



Amazon.com



The size of the drainage hole you would drill would be specified by the bulkhead you use. I think a 1/2" bulkhead is a nice size if you can find them -- that doesn't take a 1/2" hole, that's the size of the tubing that connects to it. Different brands of bulkhead can have different sized holes needed. Buy bulkhead first, then choose hole saw size.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> The size of the drainage hole you would drill would be specified by the bulkhead you use. I think a 1/2" bulkhead is a nice size if you can find them -- that doesn't take a 1/2" hole, that's the size of the tubing that connects to it. Different brands of bulkhead can have different sized holes needed. Buy bulkhead first, then choose hole saw size.


Got it.  @JasonE and I were PM'ing about this a little bit too. The bulkhead he recommended is 1/2" and he was saying the hole won't be the same size as the bulkhead.

Math + Me =


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> I still recommend looking at other threads on it to get a more detailed explanation of the drilling process.


Heed this advice. Here's a great one, from a glassmaster:

How to Drill your glass


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

jgragg said:


> Heed this advice. Here's a great one, from a glassmaster:
> 
> How to Drill your glass


I've read quite a few threads on it.  Thanks for the link!


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> > Socratic Monologue said:
> > The size of the drainage hole you would drill would be specified by the bulkhead you use. I think a 1/2" bulkhead is a nice size if you can find them -- that doesn't take a 1/2" hole, that's the size of the tubing that connects to it. Different brands of bulkhead can have different sized holes needed. Buy bulkhead first, then choose hole saw size.
> 
> 
> ...


This also bears attention. These nice folks in Florida https://pentairaes.com/contacts are glad to actually speak with you (yes, _actually talk_ on the phone!) and can sell you a bulkhead and a glass hole saw of the right size for exactly that bulkhead.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

So I'm still playing with my plant lineup, as I do more research about which plants tend to make auratus happy. I found out my auratus's breed group is from Panama, so not sure if that makes any difference as to what plants they prefer. But I found a couple threads from other auratus keepers that their frogs like things like rabbit's foot fern and Neo Zoe (both of which I'm planning on and growing out right now -- yay!), heart fern and baby's tears. It also sounds like darts in general like cryptanthus and anthurium, which I was also planning for. I have two cryptanthus already waiting to go.

Thinking of this revised lineup, based on that research and what I have already:

Background:
Aglaonema "red gold"
Anthurium -- either scandens or rupicola (they don't grow as tall as some other flamingo flowers, and it sounds like the leaves are popular egg-laying spots)
Neoregelia Fireball, Mo Peppa Please and Zoe (maybe 1 or 2 more, since I'm thinking of getting a tank mate for the little guy)

Foreground
Selaginella serpens
Davillia tyermanii
Cryptanthus carnosus, and maybe bivattatus if it doesn't look too crowded with two
_maybe_ Fittonia albivenis, but likely toward the back of the foreground (is that a thing?). This one is growing really well in quarantine right now.

I'm not a green thumb or super nerdy about species names (yet) ... just trying to get in the habit of learning them to educate myself a little more on something I didn't know much about before. 🤓


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

I don't see any peperomia on your list. They are fantastic terrarium plants and come in an almost unlimited variety.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

JasonE said:


> I don't see any peperomia on your list. They are fantastic terrarium plants and come in an almost unlimited variety.


Oh yeah, I meant to look into that, as I've seen it come up on numerous lists. Are you trying to convince me to nix something else? 🤔 Otherwise I wonder if I have enough space for all of them.

What variety would you recommend? This one is lovely and delicate, which might be a good contrast to some of the more angular/hard-edged-looking plants like the earth star.









Peperomia prostrata - String of Turtles


Peperomia prostrata is a miniature species whose bead-like, tiny leaves have a shell-like pattern, which is why it's often called String of Turtles. Exceedingly difficult to find, this plant is easy to grow and propagate. Currently available for shipping in 4" nursery pots.




pistilsnursery.com


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

kate_stpaul said:


> Oh yeah, I meant to look into that, as I've seen it come up on numerous lists. Are you trying to convince me to nix something else? 🤔 Otherwise I wonder if I have enough space for all of them.
> 
> What variety would you recommend? This one is lovely and delicate, which might be a good contrast to some of the more angular/hard-edged-looking plants like the earth star.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just saying you should definitely consider them. There is just so many varieties and they're hard to mess up. You can find a peperomia perfect for every type of dart frog. They're just a personal favorite for their easy they are to care for and propagate.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

JasonE said:


> I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just saying you should definitely consider them. There is just so many varieties and they're hard to mess up. You can find a peperomia perfect for every type of dart frog. They're just a personal favorite for their easy they are to care for and propagate.


I totally appreciate your suggestion -- I was mostly teasing about nixing something in favor of it. I definitely want plants that are easy to care for. Turns out my local organic/eco-conscious nursery has a few String of Turtles, so I don't think I can pass that up! 

If I can't find the anthurium I'm looking for soon, I might bump that to a second viv build in the future.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

This tank needs Episcia species!

They're lovely gesneriads and if you start then up high they'll trail down the background.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

kate_stpaul said:


> So I'm still playing with my plant lineup, as I do more research about which plants tend to make auratus happy. I found out my auratus's breed group is from Panama, so not sure if that makes any difference as to what plants they prefer.


I get a lot of inspiration as to what plants dart frogs prefer by looking at photos of their natural habitats.









In situ/in the wild videos and photos thread!


I'd like this thread to be a place where we can link to videos and pictures of Dendrobatids in their natural habitat. The more we study the environments to which our frogs are adapted, and their behaviors in those environments, the more able we are to provide those conditions in captivity...




www.dendroboard.com





Lots of leaf litter, big logs, leaf litter, big leaves, and leaf litter.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> In situ/in the wild videos and photos thread!
> 
> 
> I'd like this thread to be a place where we can link to videos and pictures of Dendrobatids in their natural habitat. The more we study the environments to which our frogs are adapted, and their behaviors in those environments, the more able we are to provide those conditions in captivity...
> ...


Ok, this is awesome! Thank you.

I’ll keep looking at more auratus in Panama, but I see some terrestrial plants in the videos that look like the anthurium I’m considering. Long, thin leaves and kind low to the ground. And yes, lots of leaf litter.

I’ve noticed my froglet loves to perch on the larger magnolia leaves I put over the smaller oak leaves in the temporary tank, so those seem like keepers. 

Guess I know what I’m doing after my kid goes to bed … And I’m usually nagging at him that YouTube content isn’t that valuable. 🤓


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

kate_stpaul said:


> Guess I know what I’m doing after my kid goes to bed … And I’m usually nagging at him that YouTube content isn’t that valuable. 🤓


It almost always isn't valuable, whether about dart frog care or using Gorilla Glue as a hair care product (or whatever dumb thing is there now; it is really impossible to keep up with) but this is carefully curated content.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> It almost always isn't valuable, whether about dart frog care or using Gorilla Glue as a hair care product (or whatever dumb thing is there now; it is really impossible to keep up with) but this is carefully curated content.


Ha ha! Yeah, I can't see the enrichment in the people playing Minecraft non-stop that seems to be on when my kid has the remote. 

But I loved that Adventure Ed in Panama video you shared in the in-situ thread. I got a little weepy at some parts and super excited at others. Really good stuff about conservation and educating people to leave the seemingly dangerous animals alone since they're in fact not dangerous. Reminds me of the "The Year the Earth Changed" documentary about how the huge decrease in human intervention during the pandemic allowed so many types of animals to thrive and communicate undisturbed.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

OK, so Matala is cut and ready. I have some pollen-guard window screen to put between substrate and open cell foam (still need to get the foam), so it all goes like this:

Matala
Foam
Screen 
Substrate 

I’m going to do one practice glass-drilling before I drill the tank, aiming to do that this weekend. I have the diamond hole saw that’s sized for the 1/2” bulkhead I got. Thinking about making a paper or cardboard template of the hole saw size to get placement right. Watched a handful of glass-drilling videos and read through the glassmaster’s thread that was posted here (last week, maybe? I have no good sense of time these days).

Maybe a pic of the drilled tank early next week, if I can get to it this weekend!


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## Tarantuland (Jun 4, 2021)

JasonE said:


> Looks great. What are you planning on using for the false bottom?
> 
> Edit:
> I also noticed you didn't drill your tank. I strongly suggest doing this before you go any further.


What is the purpose of drilling a tank? I'm finding threads on how to drill but I'm still not sure why to do it


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Tarantuland said:


> What is the purpose of drilling a tank? I'm finding threads on how to drill but I'm still not sure why to do it


To drain the water from your false bottom. Without a drain the water level will keep rising and saturate your substrate. 

This is Kate's thread though, so please start a thread for any other questions you have.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

Tarantuland said:


> What is the purpose of drilling a tank? I'm finding threads on how to drill but I'm still not sure why to do it


From what I’ve read and been told, it allows you to easily drain excess water from the tank through a bulkhead and tubing. There are other ways to drain it, but none sound as easy.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

So ... I tackled a few more weeks of work here, and things are almost ready to move the frogs into the viv. 

*What's done:*

Drainage hole drilled, bulkhead installed
Inclined false bottom with Matala/aquarium foam/window screen -- it gently slopes up toward the back
Ventilation strip for the top 
Plants are in, had the first mold bloom this week 
Springtails are in
*What's left to do:*

Glass top needs to be cut (my friend is doing this this weekend)
Tubing and drainage bucket need to be attached
Leaf litter needs to go in (getting some likely this weekend)
*A couple of things I learned along the way: *

Yes, Matala is hard to cut. But it's worth it. I'm really happy with the slope I created with a stepped Matala bottom. I used a couple of different tools to cut it, depending on the size of the cut. For longer cuts, a long serated saw-type blade worked well. For trimming and shorter cuts, gardening shears were perfect. 
Glass drilling isn't that scary after all. 
Drill for the bulkhead and get the false bottom in before you do the background. 
I probably wouldn't do the silicone + peat background again. So much silicone. 
I had some great guidance from @JasonE along the way, so thank you for that. 

Here are some pics of how it's turned out. I'm pretty excited that my frogs will finally have their permanent home super soon.


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## FroggyFam717 (Jul 26, 2021)

jeffkruse said:


> I live in CO. I have to add water to my false bottom to keep the humidity up. I drilled several tanks and I siliconed in a 1/4 tube coming up the back and through the top of the tank in other tanks. I find the tube much better. You can drain all the water out vs not all of it. It's very easy and you don't risk cracking the glass. It's even cheaper. YMMV


Do you have any instructions on this? 😬


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

FroggyFam717 said:


> Do you have any instructions on this? 😬


Honestly, I had no experience drilling glass, and I was able to do it with no issues. I also haven't had any issues keeping humidity up, even with little to no water in the false bottom. Although I imagine during our dry Minnesota winters, I'll need to mist more often.


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## FroggyFam717 (Jul 26, 2021)

kate_stpaul said:


> Honestly, I had no experience drilling glass, and I was able to do it with no issues. I also haven't had any issues keeping humidity up, even with little to no water in the false bottom. Although I imagine during our dry Minnesota winters, I'll need to mist more often.


You want to do mine 😅😅😅 LOL I read your post where a friend was going to help. I have a drill… I do wood working a little.


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## kate_stpaul (May 28, 2021)

FroggyFam717 said:


> You want to do mine 😅😅😅 LOL I read your post where a friend was going to help. I have a drill… I do wood working a little.


Ha!  I'd be happy to help with resources and supply recommendations if you want to give it a try. You'll definitely want a diamond drill bit for your drill, and a few other inexpensive supplies like plumber's putty for the water ring. Happy to DM you some supply recos and resource links, if you'd like.

My friend was going to drill mine, but I decided to just go for it so I know how to do it for future tanks. It was pretty satisfying once it was done!


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## FroggyFam717 (Jul 26, 2021)

kate_stpaul said:


> Ha!  I'd be happy to help with resources and supply recommendations if you want to give it a try. You'll definitely want a diamond drill bit for your drill, and a few other inexpensive supplies like plumber's putty for the water ring. Happy to DM you some supply recos and resource links, if you'd like.
> 
> My friend was going to drill mine, but I decided to just go for it so I know how to do it for future tanks. It was pretty satisfying once it was done!


yes please!!! I would love any tips! I’m right next to an ace and Menards but if what you used works I’m all for it!! Thanks so much.


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