# New Frogs - 1 won't eat - how long till I panic?



## mkitchen (Dec 31, 2012)

I've posted recently about my new set-up and new frogs. I've got 3 azureus (all supposed to be about 4 mos old). I got them on Jan. 1st in the afternoon. I just completed my 3rd feeding today. This how they have gone:

1st Feeding (1st Day): One frog hopping around eating, the other two perched up high in the corner, didn't come down. - Not worried, they are just acclimating.

2nd Feeding (2nd Day): No frog really went after the flies. One foraged a little bit. - Not worried, they are just acclimated. I had to move the Viv earlier that day so I figured it was no big deal.

3rd Day - I'm not seeing an abundance of flies roaming around so I'm not very panicked.

3rd Feeding (3rd Day): I dump flies, one frog jumps on another as soon as flies are introduced - looks like some aggression, but both frogs involved in the altercation begin to eat and continue to eat - easily eating 10+ flies a piece over the span of 4-10 minutes. One frog climbs up the side. The other continues to forage around.

The worrisome thing is that the third frog stayed perched up in the corner the whole time and never came down. He has moved before - as in he hasn't been perched up in the same spot the whole time... BUT should I be worried - and if not, how long until I should start worrying...

Also, I'm still unsure on the quantity of flies I should feed them as a group...

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

where did you get them from? If I was not mistaken, it sounds like aggression. sometimes when there is fighting going on, the bullied frog doesn't eat, and stays far away from the food because that is usually where is bully is.

The reason why I ask where did you get them from is because usually bullying doesn't happen until they reach sexual maturity (12-14 month ootw) and not at 4 month ootw. Just wondering if you got them from a trustworthy breeder/business, because at often times a random vendor at a show will mislabel frogs or state the wrong age.


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## mkitchen (Dec 31, 2012)

frog dude said:


> where did you get them from? If I was not mistaken, it sounds like aggression. sometimes when there is fighting going on, the bullied frog doesn't eat, and stays far away from the food because that is usually where is bully is.
> 
> The reason why I ask where did you get them from is because usually bullying doesn't happen until they reach sexual maturity (12-14 month ootw) and not at 4 month ootw. Just wondering if you got them from a trustworthy breeder/business, because at often times a random vendor at a show will mislabel frogs or state the wrong age.


I got them from a very reputable breeder in my area - Alpha Pro Breeders, I saw his whole operation, the parents, etc. They are definitely not close to 12-14 mos yet, they are maybe 1/2 in... They look like 1/4 the size of the adult. 

Like I said I'm not too worried about the bullying, as the one I'm worried about stayed up and didn't even come down and try to feed - the other two fed just fine...


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

It is not bullying or aggression, just a frenzy for the flies that your adding into the tank. All frogs that feed in groups will randomly jump on each other trying to get the food as fast as they can. The one that didn't come down probably didn't know there was food, had he been nearer to where you added the flies I am sure it would be a different story. As far as fly quantity, just try different amounts per feeding. If they eat them quickly then there wasn't enough and if there are some still left over when they finish then maybe a little to much. Just make sure they are all getting some.


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## mkitchen (Dec 31, 2012)

So if this guy is still up there by himself next time before the feeding, should I try and shoo him down to the floor to see if he will eat...


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

mkitchen said:


> So if this guy is still up there by himself next time before the feeding, should I try and shoo him down to the floor to see if he will eat...


I wouldn't further stress a frog by poking at him. Leave them be, if you have to watch them, do so from a distance. Even animals that get a reputation as bold can be skittish, especially with a face right up against their tank.

-Pat


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

No leave him be, but either add some extra flies to escape the initial feeding or sprinkle some flies closer to him where the others won't eat them right away.


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## mkitchen (Dec 31, 2012)

How long until I should worry about him starving then... There are still flys in the viv, but they aren't crawling up into the corner for him.


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Just leave everything alone and let him come down on his own. Like Pat said, you don't want to stress them out further.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Sometimes in addition to where you are dropping flies, you can pour a small amount of flies on your palm and gently blow them into other areas of the tank so that the less aggressive frog has more opportunity to pick off fly stragglers. 
Other then that, I agree with the others give him some time!


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## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

Take a tooth pick with a piece of bannana and stick it under him to attract flies to that area or if the bannana will sit without the tooth pick, do that.


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## mkitchen (Dec 31, 2012)

srrrio said:


> Sometimes in addition to where you are dropping flies, you can pour a small amount of flies on your palm and gently blow them into other areas of the tank so that the less aggressive frog has more opportunity to pick off fly stragglers.
> Other then that, I agree with the others give him some time!


Good tip! I would have never thought of that. I agree that he will be fine and just needs time. I guess I am just trying to get a grasp for the future if I ever have any problems with a frog eating, how long I should wait before I take action.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

How long, is hard to answer, and would be based on the condition of the frog to start. In your frogs case, from what I just saw in your other thread, they look like they are in good shape.
I would want to probably move a frog to a tank of it's own, if that frog became noticably thinner then its tank mates, or from when you got it. It will not happen in a few days.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

He is probably eating, you're just not seeing it.

I personally wouldn't blow flies at him, stick a banana toothpick in front of him or anything else. Dont move the tank anymore, dont put your face in front of the tank ... or anything else. Just let them be. I know its hard to do, but you have to resist the urge of continously checking & rechecking. They're new, new surroundings, new caretaker, new tank ... just a new environment. 

Get your leaf litter that I suggested in your other post ... its important to their feeling of security.

Then take a step back, take a deep breath ... and RELAX 

If I remember correctly, Ed stated that it generally takes about 2 weeks to work thru the stress of being a new arrival.

Let them do their thing. As long as theyre not losing weight, they will be fine.
But only if you leave them alone.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Gamble said:


> I personally wouldn't blow flies at him
> .


To be clear that is not what I advised. I said you could gently blow flies throughout the tank. I often feed this way for my frogs, it is more natural, they have to hunt a bit, and for new or shy frogs it gives more opportunity to feed.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

srrrio said:


> To be clear that is not what I advised. I said you could gently blow flies throughout the tank. I often feed this way for my frogs, it is more natural, they have to hunt a bit, and for new or shy frogs it gives more opportunity to feed.


I get what you're saying. I didn't mean to come across disrespectful or buttholish ... just trying to reinforce the aspect of leaving the frogs be. Sorry.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Every so often one or two of my bicolors will do sort of a bear hug on another frog from behind. I have only seen it when I dump flies in the enclosures. 

The frog getting jumped on doesn't usually seem to mind much. In fact, I have seen the frog that is being grabbed continue to eat with the other frog still on its back. I have watched closely to make sure they are all gaining weight and eating. 

This has all happened in the time that they were 6-10 months old. Maybe your frogs are doing something similar. I just wanted to bring it up because mine have continued to look ok (from what I can tell visually at least which probably isn't much).


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

TDK said:


> Take a tooth pick with a piece of bannana and stick it under him to attract flies to that area or if the bannana will sit without the tooth pick, do that.


Or just scatter a few small pieces of banana and orange (no peels, they may contain pesticides or other chemicals) around the vivarium, creating "feeding stations" which will attract fruit flies in different areas. This will allow frogs to eat in different areas. Personally, and other people have noticed this behavior in their frogs too, when I do this my frogs will pick a piece of fruit to sit in front of for hours, and pick off flies as the flies get attracted to the fruit. I can't tell if that's laziness or intelligence...  Obviously the effectiveness would depend on the size of your vivarium, if it's small, the feeding stations will be to close together.


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## mkitchen (Dec 31, 2012)

Well, all three frogs have been exploring the terrarium this morning and seem to be doing great. Hopefully they will all be down when I feed. Pretty great to watch these guys walk/hop around. Two of them came up to doors as if asking for some more flies.



Gamble said:


> Then take a step back, take a deep breath ... and RELAX


I appreciate the sentiment, but I think you experienced pros forget what it's like to start out in this hobby. When doing research I have read multiple threads on here of people who found what they thought was a perfectly healthy frog to be dead the next day... just didn't want it to happen to me so soon.

Anyway, I am relaxed and I will let things flow...errr hop.

P.S. I did break up some of my large leafs and created some more leaf litter areas but they seem to especially enjoy the mosses and sitting either under or on top of low lying leaves of plants.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

mkitchen said:


> *I think you experienced pros forget what it's like to start out in this hobby. When doing research I have read multiple threads on here of people who found what they thought was a perfectly healthy frog to be dead the next day... just didn't want it to happen to me so soon.


I cant speak for everyone, but I, myself, have to fight that urge still when I get new frogs. 
I know exactly how you feel 

I've just learned to not listen to the tiny voices in my head telling me to dig thru the tank when I get nervous. 
And usually the frogs end up fine.

Glad to hear that they're doing ok.


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## daryl34 (Feb 24, 2007)

More cover in the tank is better , visual blocks can be very hepful, I can keep multiple adults in a tank if it is heavily planted. If they cant see each other they can't piss each other off. ergo they will find their niche and coexist.


Daryl


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## andya26 (Mar 27, 2012)

Just a couple of side notes...

I recently learned that PDF's feeding mechanism is triggered by movement, that being said if issues do continue with the frog just wait until he is in a good position and cater to the frog as far as feeding, like someone else mentioned, maybe he just did not know the flies were there. The banana idea is also a good idea so the food is easy to access. 

The other item I wanted to mention is that PDF's in captivity are fairly over fed, so there is no need to worry about them starving over a few days, if that turns into over a week or even two weeks then it becomes a concern but keep in mind frogs survive off of much less food in the wild. 

At this point it sounds like the frog is doing better, so that is good news and good luck in the future.


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