# Scary spider



## lilruthie102 (Aug 2, 2006)

I have no idea what section this should be in,(i thought about food and feeding since i think it wants to eat me) so feel free to move it... 
I got up today and saw spider webs in my viv. Upon further inspection i found this spider on the underside of my orchid leaf. I left the picture zoomed out in case seeing the web helps at all with identification. 
I have looked and looked but I can't figure out what kind of spider is could be. I jsut want to know if it's dangerous to the frogs or to me. If it is dangerous, i could use some suggestions on catching it since my roommates and I are all scared of regular spiders let alone one that looks like that. (hint hint... Mike wanna come catch a spider? =) ) 
Thanks for your help. 

Ruth 

On a side note, I haven't added anything new to my viv in about a month so i'm wondering where it would have been hiding webs all this time


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## thumbnail (Sep 18, 2005)

*spider*

I dont think it would be dangerous unless you were one of those hyper-sensitive to bug bites kind of person, but to be on the safe side just get a tall jar or deli cup and coax it in with a stick. It looks real pretty to me. How big is he? From the pic if you added a big azureus or larger dart or even a house gecko then your problem would be solved pretty quickly once they found it.


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## lilruthie102 (Aug 2, 2006)

I'm bad with sizes i'll go try to put a penny next to it or something. I have three sub-adult auratus in the tank, but I think that it is a little big for them to eat. 
I actually think it's pretty too... as long as it won't hurt me and I never have to touch it I don't mind it staying. I just want to know what it is. 
Ruth


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

I've heard some bad experiences with leaving spiders in with frogs. I'm sure some might chime in, but if not, search for "spider" and you will likely find a few threads. 

If you leave it, keep a close eye on your frogs and maybe feed extra. Most of the time, when I find a frog getting thin, it's because I've found a co-inhabitant in the tank with them. I've had both spiders and roaches...one of the spiders that I found was actually killing all the FF. I noticed lots of dead FF on the leaves in a corner of the tank...low and behold, there was a spider up there killing them. Roaches eat the FF, and tend to stress out thumbnail frogs. Sorry to say, any spiders I find in there get the big squish...I ball up a paper towel and squish it. I've tried to be nice and get them out nicely, but all those times ended with it getting away. It's not easy trying to get a spider to go where you want it to, while at the same time making sure frogs don't escape.

Kristen


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Ruth- I started looking for you and the best I could find would be some sort of crab spider maybe. I then started to get grossed out so I couldn't look anymore. Blechh... I HATE spiders! :lol:

http://entomology.unl.edu/images/spiders/spiders3.htm


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## Steve (Apr 8, 2006)

Have you added anything to the viv prior to the month you mentioned? that was bought from the south or south west continental US?

The reason i ask is because that looks pretty similar to baby Black Widows we get across this way, also the web looks like the usual mish mash that a widow makes (Do you get widows in Ohio?)

Hopefully it isn't but i would air on the side of caution.

The good news is though as it is a baby it won't harm you as only adult females have fangs/teeth strong enough to pierce human flesh.

Good luck and i will try to find a reference for you.

Edit.... Here you go..

Newly hatched baby widow










A few weeks old they look like this










The pattern will vary considerably but have the same body shape and a very distinct web... un-uniform and quite strong.


Steve


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## lilruthie102 (Aug 2, 2006)

I put in a venus fly trap about a month ago, I rinsed it off really well, but I may have jsut missed the spider. Other than that it's been about 4 months since I put a new plant in the tank. 
I knocked the spider off into a culture cup today with a plant and soem fruit flys. I figured that I would keep it alive until I figured out what it was. 
The markings had reminded me of a black widow, but I didn't think that they would change colors so drastically over their life span. 
Interesting! 
Ruth


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## Steve (Apr 8, 2006)

Yeah, it's pretty cool how they start off all sandy and white looking. Then slowly go brown and develop a rusty color marking that eventually goes red as the spider goes black and gives the tell tale hourglass on the underside of the adult females.

The red hour glass also turns flourescent green or orange under blacklight.

Unfortunatly around our old house we had many, including two under my frog rack in the kitchen living off escapee fruit fly's and crickets so i saw spiderlings reguarly. Sorry if this offends spider lovers but they all met an untimely end, with small children i wasn't prepared to risk having them co-habit our space.

The good news was though, we moved house about 5 months ago... no black widows anywhere... luckily the Bark scorpions (most venomous native scorpion in the US) ate all the Widows   

Just our luck.. oh well, you can't live in a jungle and complain about all the trees!!!

Regards

Steve


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## rbrightstone (Apr 14, 2004)

Considering the shape and color of that spider< I would recomend caution. I am pretty familiar with most spider speices of the midwest, and do not recognize this one, other than as said earlier, it is similar to black widows. Much like our frogs, there is usually a reason why small animals are brightly colored. And with spiders, better safe than sorry. Let us know if you find out what it is.


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## lilruthie102 (Aug 2, 2006)

I managed to knock it off into a culture cup with only a moderate amount of girlie screaming. I put in a little plant and some fruit flies because I would like to watch it and see what it develops into as it changes. Black Widow seems the most likely in which case unless someone decides they want to adopt it, it will probably go into the freezer and then down the garbage disposal. Though knowing me I'll name it and get attatched and end up with a black widow as a pet. 
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if black widows would mess with the frogs (not that I have any desire to have it back in my tank where it could possibly escape) just curious. 
Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll let you know what happens . 
Any more suggestions are more than welcome, or if you have any clues on better ways to keep it alive. 
Thanks
Ruth


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## snake8myelbo (Dec 3, 2006)

Positive a young black widow! But dont kill him! Spiders help balance out the worlds population of insects, the pdf cant eat them all, just let him go


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## lilruthie102 (Aug 2, 2006)

My problem is I'm in ohio and we currently have about a foot of snow and ice on the ground so if I want to let him go I need to keep him alive in the house for a couple of months. We'll see how long I can make it before my roommates really freak, but if i get on here in a week to tell you that it bit me and i'm in excruciating pain, we'll all know who's fault it will be!
Ruth


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

looks more like the cobweb weaver (Theridion frondeum) to me


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## ian (Dec 25, 2006)

Wow. I just watched a Vational Geographic show on dangerous spiders. That does look like a baby widow to me. But I am no expert. Ruth. is there any way you can take it to a veterinarian? They could help tou identify it. Maybe to the zoo? I hate spiders so I would have done away with it awhile ago.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

ian said:


> Wow. I just watched a Vational Geographic show on dangerous spiders. That does look like a baby widow to me. But I am no expert. Ruth. is there any way you can take it to a veterinarian? They could help tou identify it. Maybe to the zoo? I hate spiders so I would have done away with it awhile ago.


Why on earth would a veterinarian be expected to identify a spider? You can send it to your state's extension entomologist and they will give you a definative answer about its identification with no guesswork.


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## lilruthie102 (Aug 2, 2006)

I was thinking about taking it to Ohio State's entomology department at some point to see what they say
Ruth


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## ian (Dec 25, 2006)

bbrock, If one wanted a quick identification one could use a vets office. Not all vets are just cat and dog fixers. Yes the better choice would be a entomologist but if that wasn't available to her then she can go elsewhere.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

I think my vet would look at me like I was nuts if I brought a dart frog in there, let alone a spider!


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## LaraGail (Feb 11, 2007)

It should be fairly easy to keep it alive if that's what you want to do. 

One time I kept a brown recluse in a jar-- 

I just wrapped a coffee filter around the top of the jar and secured it with a hair tie so he couldn't get out, but he could still get some air.

I fed him mealworms and gutload cricket drink and he got HUGE. 

it's kind of fun to watch them grow, whenever he caught a meal worm you could really see the poison do its job. 

also, it was good for showing people who didn't know what brown recluse's look like.

If that is a baby black widow there could be thousands more-- might be a good idea to shake out your clothes and shoes before you put them on!

good luck!


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey, it does sound like it would be fun to house a brown recluse or a black widow, I would love to keep a few in a little 5 gallon tank or something, and just toss in my extra FF's, but I am sure my mom would freak out. She told me I couldn't breed cockroaches to feed my lizards and frogs, of course it was a no.


Curt.


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## Speed23 (Feb 16, 2007)

NCSUdart said:


> looks more like the cobweb weaver (Theridion frondeum) to me


That's definately what it looks like.


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## unc-usf-fsu (Jan 30, 2006)

the banded knees in her picture are exactly like the widow group spiders. I live in Florida and have seen way too many widows. Black, brown and red they have come across my path and thru my house at one time or another.

I made my Frog rack out of cinder blocks and 2x10's and don't you know I check the holes of the cinder blocks everytime I need to something I put in the hole.

There is nothing like grabbing some air tubing or Rep-cal and having a black widow crawling towards your hand.


Adam


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

the widows and the cobweb spider are in the same family (theridiidae) and the young widows can looks similar. but the cobwebs will have banding on the joints as well. i standby my thoughts that it is a cobweb spider and not a young widow.


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## candyman (Apr 1, 2007)

that theyre is a corn spider, they fly around in the wind prolly got caught into your tank with a darft of wind, completely harmless. a black widow amkes a cone shaped web(my cousin keeps 3 as pets in germany) also widows are very rare in ohio..
P.S. that spider will get huge i used to catch them in the fields around my house ive seen ones up to about 8 inches just spread out in a web. nothing to worry about though but once it gets a little warmer here id let it go.


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## robrainney (Jan 4, 2007)

That tiny spider wouldn't worry me too much, but one day I woke up and found this monster next to my sleeping daughter. It was about the size of my hand. :shock:


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## Arachnophilist (Mar 16, 2007)

its defiantely not a widow.. if you want a definate ID go post it on Arachnoboards and u will get one.. or u can PM me and I will post it for you. it is also certainly not a crab spider.. though it does look like a bit like the coloration of some crab spiders. you should set it up in a small container and keep it as a pet.. or let it go on a house plant and let it set up shop.. it looks pretty fat so you may end up with some sacs and a few hundred babies lol.


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

robrainney said:


> That tiny spider wouldn't worry me too much, but one day I woke up and found this monster next to my sleeping daughter. It was about the size of my hand. :shock:


i screamed when i saw the picture! wow! i would have kept that mother of a spider!


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Jan 1, 2007)

http://www.whatsthatbug.com/

Check out that website. They're REALLY quick on replys.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Well I wish I would have seen this thread when it was made, I would have helped you out. Anyway, what was the little guy's fate? Any ID?


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