# 3 Azureus died in 1 week :(



## Guest (Jul 6, 2004)

Bad news folks,

Last week, my smallest Azureus passed away unexpectedly. Sure, he was the runt, but that should be no excuse. I chalked it up to him maybe not being able to get enough food. All 3 frogs were housed comfortably in a 29g viv with all the trimmings. So then a few days later, the mid-sized frog died. Same deal, belly up in the back of the tank. No signs of foul play. Defintely not malnouorishment, as it was quite healthy. Then there was 1 left... the biggest, strongest, most outgoing frog. They were about 3-4 weeks out of the water when I aquired them in March, by the way. And were CB of course. Anyway, the last frog passed away 2 days later.

My question is, was there a virus or disease that they were carrying that finally took it's toll? How long will the tank potentially host this evil being before more frogs could potentially be put in there?

Thanks for your help folks. All your ideas would be appreciated.
~b


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## mindcrash (Mar 3, 2004)

Sorry to hear about the frogs passing.

As for the tank, i would completely overhaul it. Why risk infecting other frogs? I am in the middle of doing that right now to my nicest tank because the frogs that were in it contracted hookworms.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

List the contents of what you used in the tank. 

One thing that I have noticed lately is that almost every moss, or dirt sold at lowes or local stores this year now has fertilizer added, this alone could do it. Make sure to read the labels and that they are free of any additives. All it takes is something smal that is toxic to them and that will be the end.


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## Moe (Feb 15, 2004)

Yea, be sure your using a dechlorinator if your using tap water.

M.N


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2004)

thanks for the thoughts.

here's the deal. all of the plants, moss, wood, and cork are from reputable frog equipments suppliers like blackjungle and saurian, etc.

there's nothingy fancy about my setup. i have a couple bromes, tilandsia, and pothos growing very nicely. as i mentioned the other day, i've got a few mushrooms popping up from day to day. i am told that that signifies a very clean tank. also, i recently noticed a good population of sprintails or mites in the tank. there is running water over a waterfall that is always crystal clear. really, nothing seems to be amiss... except the 3 freak frog deaths.

i am using almost the exact same setup, but on a smaller scale, in a 10g that houses 3 g&b auratus. so far, no problems there. i would like to move the g&b to the bigger tank so they can feast on the bugs, and enjoy the large bromes and running water, but i'm still pretty worried that something bad might be in there. based on this info, does anything come to mind?

thanks again!
~b


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## mindcrash (Mar 3, 2004)

Still, i would err on the side of caution here. Why needlessly risk the lives of your other frogs? 

Again, i am in the same situation, where all my plants in the tank were from reputable dealers, including the frogs themselves, yet they still came down with hookworms.


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

You mentioned that you had them since March. If my math is correct that would mean that they are about 5 months old (when you include the two-four weeks they were out of the water before you purchased them). 

Have you had them in this same tank the last four months or did you just add them to the tank? If they've been in there all along, have you changed ANYTHING in the last week? Have you change the water you use (even brand of water if you buy it)? Are you dusting their food regularly? Buy a new sprayer for them? Has the temperature changed? Our house has very few trees and can be difficult to regulate the temperature in when it gets really cold or really hot. We realized this weekend that one particular room gets a little too warm for comfort during mid-afternoon.

I'd agree with mindcrash. Better safe than sorry. When you do take down the tank make sure to clean it throughly and allow it to completely dry out before you rebuild. I wouldn't reuse any of the plants, wood, etc. from the original tank.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2004)

sarah,

thanks for the ideas. the one potential variable that might exist would be the temperature. since i'm not home during the day, it's hard to say what might be happening, but i set the thermostat so that the A/C will keep my place at temp around 78-82 degrees. i don't think it ever gets uncomfortable in there. my 3 g&b auratus are fine in a very similar setup, too. 
otherwise, everything has been the same:sprayer, water, food, photo-period, and plants. i even grew the plants that i bought at the hardware store in coco bedding for a month before putting them in the tank. all precautions were taken to ensure that every last bit of potting soil was washed off the roots of the plants when i started the process too.

has anybody had experience with parasites or a disease getting your frogs very unexpectedly?

you'll have to forgive me that i'm still very hesistant to break down the tank until i'm 100% convinced that something is wrong with it's contents. it's big and nicely designed. i would hate to see it go to waste. maybe i will end up selling it, and somebody else can do with it what they see fit. i just don't know.
i'll keep y'all posted.

thanks,
b


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

But how hot are the tanks? 78-82 could make the tanks up to 90 and thats too hot.

My house stays about 70-74, and my tanks from 70-76. I would not want them much hotter than that.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

*i agree*

I agree with the above. we keep our house warm here also, from 76-78 degrees during the day. My tinc tank can occasionally reach up to 80-82 degrees, just with the lights. Since I installed more ventilation and a cooling fan, it stays just two degrees or so above room temperature. You left that variable out. You said lighting, food, etc, but not ventilation and cooling. And, what kind of lighting is it?

Also, were there any cleaning chemicals, sprays, etc. used in your house? Even with good care to keep the tank covered, if the stuff is too strong, it can get in thru ventilation of your tank easily if you got a fan (just sucks in the fumes).

I know that azureus are reported to heat stress quicker than other dart frogs. If they were doing fine, your youngest, less hardy frog would probably go first, and finally the healthiest one would go last.

In the end, if neither are the case, sometimes things just happen, for virtually no reason, or without warning. I had a wild caught mantella betsileo that was just fine, eating great, etc, and I found it dead at random five days after I bought it, although WC, it seemed perfectly fine, but things can just go wrong.

Sorry, did my best,
Rain


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## Uncle Sal (May 7, 2004)

Do you dust their fruit flies. if so how often? I lost a pair of tincs, a while back without even realizing that I was dusting their fruit flies way to much.

just a guess?


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## JoshinAZ (Jul 4, 2004)

Also depends on where the sun sets and if it has contact the room. I keep my A/C at 79 but notice that one room is sometimes 5 degrees higher than the rest of the house.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I had this issue too at first, but have put up ceiling fans and it has helped a ton.



JoshinAZ said:


> Also depends on where the sun sets and if it has contact the room. I keep my A/C at 79 but notice that one room is sometimes 5 degrees higher than the rest of the house.


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

TheCheat said:


> sarah,
> 
> thanks for the ideas. the one potential variable that might exist would be the temperature. since i'm not home during the day, it's hard to say what might be happening, but i set the thermostat so that the A/C will keep my place at temp around 78-82 degrees. i don't think it ever gets uncomfortable in there. .........


To get a handle on the temperature go and buy a digital thermometer that will retain the high temperature in memory. Put the probe of the thermometer in the tank and keep an eye on it for a week or so (especially if that week has similar outside temperatures of the week you lost the Azureus). This would give you an idea of what the temperature was like inside the tank.

We keep a thermometer like this in almost every room we have frogs in. That way we know if it is getting a little too warm and can make adjustments. Kyle also mentioned ceiling fans. We have ceiling fans in all the bedrooms and living room and keep those fans running year round. If one gets accidently turned off you can quickly tell.........


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

The duel probe thermometer and humidistat was a great buy I can not agree more. I also use a heat gun to quicklu check other tanks if I think the temps might be off.



froglady said:


> TheCheat said:
> 
> 
> > sarah,
> ...


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

A previous poster mentioned something about the sun and I have a few insights on this as well. Put curtains on your windows! Depending on the direction your window is facing it may get three hours of direct sunlight at a time of day when you are not home, or even early in the morning when you are not up. Even in just a few hours the tanks can heat up to terribly inhospitable temperatures.

Justin


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## tkavan01 (Mar 17, 2004)

TheCheat has been out of town for a few weeks, i've been watching his remaining auratus for him since he left. The frogs are doing great in the same enclosure that they spent time with the sick frogs in. while the tank is no longer at his place it's tough to say whether conditions are the same as they where, temperatures in my frog room get a bit warm but nothing crazy, the frogs are doing great, maybe the auratus are a little less sensitive to these things as azureus...
Who knows, unless you get them chopped up and stuff your probably not gonna know, it may have been something that could not be treated like my brazilian yellowheads who came without tongues...


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

> . i would hate to see it go to waste. maybe i will end up selling it, and somebody else can do with it what they see fit. i just don't know.


Thats definently a very underhanded thing to do! Its deffinently not on the up and up, to knowingly sell a potentialy infected tank to someone so they can put their frogs in there and have them die. Thats no better than selling frogs that had been in the same tank with contaminated frogs; they too may or may not be sick. You definently need to scrutinize ure morals!


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