# breeding summersi



## gary1218

Any of you that have had success breeding these guys care to share your secrets?

I have a gorgeous trio from Understory Enterprises and I'm sure there's at least one male & female in the group but no action or even calling so far.


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## kgb

Im having the same issue... they require drier tank as they are from drier forest floors... also more terrestrial... Ive been told its important to cycle wet and dry seasons if you havent tried that. Thats what im currently doing.


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## gary1218

kgb said:


> Im having the same issue... they require drier tank as they are from drier forest floors... also more terrestrial... Ive been told its important to cycle wet and dry seasons if you havent tried that. Thats what im currently doing.


Interesting. I do have them on the same every other day misting schedule as my imis. Maybe I'll turn off their tank.

Thanks.


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## Chris Miller

I use exoterras (12X12X18 - I know mortal sin), and don't block off the front vents with tape. I block most of them on enclosures for other species. I also only spray them 2-3 times per week but that's the same as other frogs.

I keep the tank pretty dark and an overgrown bromeliad blocks most of the light getting to the bottom of the viv.

The frogs lay their clutches 1 every other week on the bromeliad leaves. I let the male transport the tads and collect them from there. I have found with the larger fantasica group frogs that the bigger the female the better breeding goes. So, I usually pull females and raise them seperately for 16 months. From time to time one or two pairs will lay in backwards facing film canisters.

Other than that, I feed Repashy dusted flies 2 times a week. There are likely isopods and maybe springs in the viv as well.

I guess I would say the keys are large female, dark viv and leave them be as much as possible.


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## InnoEcto

Hi Gary.

We have a 1.2 trio of UE summersi. They have bred prety steady for us so far, but have slowed down recently. 
Ours are in a fairly simple tank, a 20g high, in it's normal orientation (with more ground space 24"X12"). There is a small cork panel, and a piece of ghostwood with a cluster of bromeliads. The broms don't hold much water, and I wouldn't think the frogs would deposit tads there. We have 5 black film canisters laid out horizontally on the ground, among the leaf litter. We have found clutches in every canister. We may drape a large magnolia leaf over the canisters to hide them. We have also found eggs on the ground on mag leaves, just under the top layer. They may lay some eggs up in the broms, as we don't find all the eggs. Every couple weeks we may find a tad or two in the water containers. The adults use all the tank space. Right now, we mist on them several times a day for about 30 seconds each cycle.
I hope this helps. 

By the way, the imitators are doing well. Thanks again.


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## Pumilo

InnoEcto said:


> Hi Gary.
> 
> We have a 1.2 trio of UE summersi. They have bred prety steady for us so far, but have slowed down recently.
> Ours are in a fairly simple tank, a 20g high, in it's normal orientation (with more ground space 24"X12"). There is a small cork panel, and a piece of ghostwood with a cluster of bromeliads. The broms don't hold much water, and I wouldn't think the frogs would deposit tads there. We have 5 black film canisters laid out horizontally on the ground, among the leaf litter. We have found clutches in every canister. We may drape a large magnolia leaf over the canisters to hide them. We have also found eggs on the ground on mag leaves, just under the top layer. They may lay some eggs up in the broms, as we don't find all the eggs. Every couple weeks we may find a tad or two in the water containers. The adults use all the tank space. Right now, we mist on them several times a day for about 30 seconds each cycle.
> I hope this helps.
> 
> By the way, the imitators are doing well. Thanks again.


But how do we know if you guys have actually produced any?? Just kidding, I got mine from Nick and Austin. Thanks for the info, everybody. I'm watching this thread closely.


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## gary1218

GREAT info. Thanks very much.

ALL my tanks are pretty simple. So I have that part covered  My lights are only on for 6 hours or so to keep the broms alive. I do tend to see them out more when the lights are off. The front half of the tank is 2"-3" of mag leaf litter and the back half is a ground cover type of plant. I think I'm going to try some of the film cannisters on the ground covered up by the mag leaves and ground cover plants.

These are really beautiful frogs and I just HAVE to get them breeding.


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## Chris Miller

If you have room, try separating them.


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## stu&shaz

Gary thanks for posting this,and more thanks to all for the help given ,we also have a pr,we get some courtship her stroking but nothing further so far,i think i have heard one call,but when its only once your never sure or rather i'm not sure. Chris how long would you separate them for,this is feasable for us,and whom would you pull the male or female.ours have a densely planted viv especially up top and they don't really seem shy at all,quite happily hunting in full view of us and aware that we are there,i too would adore to have them breeding,we don't have that many of these here.There is a significant size difference between the two but i have only seen one other group so couldn't really say if she is a big female
thanks again everyone,very greatful to accidentally find this thread while searching for something else
regards
Stu
Ps Gary there is a little bit more info kindly given to us on Adam Hess's thread,"I haven't posted any pics for a while" i think his sig is "The Dude" members frogs and vivs section(i hope that is right)


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## B-NICE

What do a trio of these guys run?


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## randommind

B-NICE said:


> What do a trio of these guys run?


...As with any frog, there is no SET price, but here is every classified ad for summersi over the last 6 months:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/frog-classifieds/77520-various-thumbnail-frogs-available.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fr...mpoted-truncatus-huge-selection-cb-frogs.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fr...ersi-possible-1-1-chicago-milwaukee-area.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/frog-classifieds/74785-few-adults.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/frog-classifieds/72078-proven-summersi-banded-female-seattle.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/frog-classifieds/71718-single-adults-pairs-froglets.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/frog-classifieds/79340-r-summersiis.html


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## thedude

stu&shaz said:


> Ps Gary there is a little bit more info kindly given to us on Adam Hess's thread,"I haven't posted any pics for a while" i think his sig is "The Dude" members frogs and vivs section(i hope that is right)


Thanks for mentioning this Stu, here's what I said in the other thread.





thedude said:


> Hi Stu, thanks for the kind words. I've actually only heard calling from them a couple of times but I find eggs and tads all the time. I use to keep them as 2.1 in a 18 gallon but one of the males didn't do so well so I had to separate. Now that they are in a 1.1 I find tadpoles transported often. Someday I would like to keep them in a larger group in a larger tank though. As for the tank it's nothing special. Plenty of leaf litter and woody debris, and a lot of plants. Especially broad leaved plants that grow to the high reaches of the tank. Less light hitting the floor of the viv means they feel more secure. This seems to be true with all fantastica group frogs.
> 
> I've noticed as algae takes over the glass on the top of the viv, frogs come out more. So I'm planning on getting some clear green plastic wrap and putting it on some of my tanks to try that out. I'm also gonna cut sections in it to make it seem like bits of sunlight making it through the trees and hitting the floor. Maybe this will help with the shyer frogs.


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## Pumilo

Adam, I love your idea to provide mottled sunlight for them.


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## thedude

Pumilo said:


> Adam, I love your idea to provide mottled sunlight for them.


Thanks Doug. I recently tried this with my friends auratus tank. I'm happy to say it looks really good and worked perfectly! Her frogs never came out before. She would see one of them every couple days, and the other only once a week at best. Now she sees them both everyday. So I guess I'll be doing this on a couple tanks this week


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## Pumilo

A thought on a variation of this would be a partially translucent cutout(s) put over the top, letting all the light through in spots, and diffused light in others .


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## thedude

Pumilo said:


> A thought on a variation of this would be a partially translucent cutout(s) put over the top, letting all the light through in spots, and diffused light in others .


Unless I'm reading this wrong that was what I was saying. If you fold the clear green plastic over 3 times you can cut it so there is varying amounts of "shadow", and you can cut it all the way through for full sunlight.


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## gary1218

Interesting idea.

Do you worry about enough light getting through for the broms/plants?


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## thedude

gary1218 said:


> Interesting idea.
> 
> Do you worry about enough light getting through for the broms/plants?


I haven't seen a problem yet but we will have to wait find out. I would allow full sunlight to get through for broms and orchids.


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## Pumilo

thedude said:


> Unless I'm reading this wrong that was what I was saying. If you fold the clear green plastic over 3 times you can cut it so there is varying amounts of "shadow", and you can cut it all the way through for full sunlight.


You're not reading it wrong, I just worded it poorly. My thought was several, possibly leaf shaped, pieces, cut out of a green acrylic, and laid over the top. This would supply some mottling effect.
I like your clarification even better though. So some of your cuts would go through one layer, some through 2 layers, and some through all 3 layers?


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## SmackoftheGods

No personal experience with summersi, but I seem to recall that a couple of years ago a similar question was asked. I seem to recall that people were having trouble breeding the summersi when it was too humid. Something like, when the humidity got over 80% they stopped breeding....

As with all fantastica I would imagine that trios aren't an ideal situation. Fantastica (at least those I've worked with) seem to get an odd-man-out syndrome and the sexual competition increases more than with pairs or groups.... I find it easier to gather eggs from fantastica kept in groups of 4+ or pairs. Trios are funny....


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## Pumilo

SmackoftheGods said:


> No personal experience with summersi, but I seem to recall that a couple of years ago a similar question was asked. I seem to recall that people were having trouble breeding the summersi when it was too humid. Something like, when the humidity got over 80% they stopped breeding....
> 
> As with all fantastica I would imagine that trios aren't an ideal situation. Fantastica (at least those I've worked with) seem to get an odd-man-out syndrome and the sexual competition increases more than with pairs or groups.... I find it easier to gather eggs from fantastica kept in groups of 4+ or pairs. Trios are funny....


We'll see how mine do then. I am trying a group of 5 but they are still quite young.


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## gary1218

SmackoftheGods said:


> No personal experience with summersi, but I seem to recall that a couple of years ago a similar question was asked. I seem to recall that people were having trouble breeding the summersi when it was too humid. Something like, when the humidity got over 80% they stopped breeding....
> 
> As with all fantastica I would imagine that trios aren't an ideal situation. Fantastica (at least those I've worked with) seem to get an odd-man-out syndrome and the sexual competition increases more than with pairs or groups.... I find it easier to gather eggs from fantastica kept in groups of 4+ or pairs. Trios are funny....


That's interesting.

Mine are set up as a trio now. I think I have a 2.1. I wish one of the males would call. If I could catch a male calling I would separate them out as a pair.

I think I'm going to try drying them out a little bit as well.


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## Chris Miller

stu&shaz said:


> Gary thanks for posting this,and more thanks to all for the help given ,we also have a pr,we get some courtship her stroking but nothing further so far,i think i have heard one call,but when its only once your never sure or rather i'm not sure. Chris how long would you separate them for,this is feasable for us,and whom would you pull the male or female.ours have a densely planted viv especially up top and they don't really seem shy at all,quite happily hunting in full view of us and aware that we are there,i too would adore to have them breeding,we don't have that many of these here.There is a significant size difference between the two but i have only seen one other group so couldn't really say if she is a big female
> thanks again everyone,very greatful to accidentally find this thread while searching for something else
> regards
> Stu


Hi there, I usually try 1-2 months and pull whichever I can catch first. Though if you are getting stroking it sounds like things are already on track. I would give them another month or so. How old are they?


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## smittydc

I really like the filtered light you guy's are taliking about.Make's a lot of sense with this simulating habitat they are comftorable with.I used to think in term's of a brightly " lit up " tank with a moss covered bottom.Now I know it's more important to create a canopy with filtered light and a dense leaf liter floor.


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## stu&shaz

Chris Miller said:


> Hi there, I usually try 1-2 months and pull whichever I can catch first. Though if you are getting stroking it sounds like things are already on track. I would give them another month or so. How old are they?


Thanks Chris for the reply, i whitnessed stroking a fair while back now, although that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened more than that.Quite often they roost in horizontal film cans so a catch might be more straight forward than it could be and hence easier to chose which one to remove. I'm reasoning pulling her might be best so he would have her "appear" in his territory,as i might just have a choice
I'm not exactly sure on age but over a year I'm sure,they came from another breeder here and originally understory via various parties.would you pull and then put them into a dry season,then wet things up before putting them back? Or might this be the wrong way with the above post about high humidity stopping breeding To my novice eyes they look in fabulous condition,very bright and alert,i spent 1/2 an hour,watching them hunting this very morn,they remind me of a frog version of marmosets with that alert jerky movement. Oh Chris she is said to have laid once previous,dried up eggs were found by their last custodian 

thanks again
Stu
ps Adam the thanks are mine


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## thedude

Pumilo said:


> You're not reading it wrong, I just worded it poorly. My thought was several, possibly leaf shaped, pieces, cut out of a green acrylic, and laid over the top. This would supply some mottling effect.
> I like your clarification even better though. So some of your cuts would go through one layer, some through 2 layers, and some through all 3 layers?


Ya that's what I'm going to try on a few of my tanks, hopefully this week. It might be neat to cut "leaves" out of the green plastic and put them on some clear acrylic as well.




smittydc said:


> I really like the filtered light you guy's are taliking about.Make's a lot of sense with this simulating habitat they are comftorable with.I used to think in term's of a brightly " lit up " tank with a moss covered bottom.Now I know it's more important to create a canopy with filtered light and a dense leaf liter floor.


Ya people are definitely moving away from completely soaked tanks with moss covering the ground and blinding lights. I'm trying to do what you're saying as well. Lots of leaf litter and a nice canopy if I can.


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## gary1218

Well..........Operation Summersi is under way. I disconnected the misting nozzles in their tank, covered the top so the tank is just getting some ambient light, and spread some film cannister on top of the substrate around their tank.

If this doesn't work I think I'm going to hunt around for a calling male and set him up with the one I'm pretty confident is the female.


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## stu&shaz

gary1218 said:


> Well..........Operation Summersi is under way. I disconnected the misting nozzles in their tank, covered the top so the tank is just getting some ambient light, and spread some film cannister on top of the substrate around their tank.
> 
> If this doesn't work I think I'm going to hunt around for a calling male and set him up with the one I'm pretty confident is the female.


they are such gorgeous frogs Gary,tell me which do you think is the female,ours look very different as far as/shape/size goes,but from one of the posts above,it seems that females at least can vary as to size,our little lass looks pretty damn big at the moment,i'm cautious as to spliting them well she's looks this way
best of luck thanks for the pics
Stu


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## gary1218

stu&shaz said:


> they are such gorgeous frogs Gary,tell me which do you think is the female,ours look very different as far as/shape/size goes,but from one of the posts above,it seems that females at least can vary as to size,our little lass looks pretty damn big at the moment,i'm cautious as to spliting them well she's looks this way
> best of luck thanks for the pics
> Stu


Those were pics I took when I first got them from Mark at around 3 months of age. I got 3 of them but only had pics of those 2 which I think are male. The other one is definitely the typical plump pear shape female. "She's" definitely a little bigger than the other 2.


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## Pumilo

gary1218 said:


> Those were pics I took when I first got them from Mark at around 3 months of age. I got 3 of them but only had pics of those 2 which I think are male. The other one is definitely the typical plump pear shape female. "She's" definitely a little bigger than the other 2.


Oh good! I didn't want to pop your bubble but I was guessing 2 males.


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## curlykid

hey guys, i followed the advice on this thread, and i keep my tank fairly dry and dim. my summersi from UE have already started to call and exhibit courting behavior. i hope to see eggs soon, and i will keep everyone updated.


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## Pumilo

curlykid said:


> hey guys, i followed the advice on this thread, and i keep my tank fairly dry and dim. my summersi from UE have already started to call and exhibit courting behavior. i hope to see eggs soon, and i will keep everyone updated.


Took you long enough Nick! What's it been, 3 days??


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## curlykid

yeah, i was wondering when they were going to start courting! haha


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## curlykid

Just found a clutch of four eggs!!!


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## gary1218

curlykid said:


> Just found a clutch of four eggs!!!


OH MAN.............good for you!!!


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## Pumilo

curlykid said:


> Just found a clutch of four eggs!!!


Four days later...don't we feel like a bunch of slackers?!


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## markpulawski

Doesn't that suck that you have to wait 4 days to get eggs out of Mark's frogs...he is really slipping. Good for you, up to your eyes in tads soon I predict.


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## DCgecko

curlykid said:


> Just found a clutch of four eggs!!!


 that has only happened on my ffs so far....
now I have to check my cv fants tank every 30min!


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## curlykid

lol guys, I'm as surprised as you are!


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## Pumilo

curlykid said:


> Just found a clutch of four eggs!!!


You know, if you were to work the statistics on this, I'm pretty sure that makes you the best breeder DendroBoard has ever seen! You should retire now while you're ahead!


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## thedude

Pumilo said:


> Four days later...don't we feel like a bunch of slackers?!


That seems to happen almost every time I get frogs from them. Aside from reticulata.

Hopefully that happens with the sylvatica


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## yours

curlykid said:


> Just found a clutch of four eggs!!!


First frogs or not, you are to be commended for WHATEVER "love-fest rompin' stompin' good time" you created for those Ranitomeya summersi, this is most notably for sure!!!! Especially with all of the seasoned on-go'er's in this thread -- unless of course Mark pumped some VIAGRA in those BOYS before LIFT OFF!!!

Heh. 

Nicely done, my friend.


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## a Vertigo Guy

When you guys say dry, how dry is dry?


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## frogparty

British humor dry


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## a Vertigo Guy

How wet can that humour be gauged?


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## frogparty

LOL Since I dont breed summersii I cant really comment, but Id assume you could just reduce misting to once a week or so. SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS SUCCESS NEEDS TO WEIGH IN ON THIS ONE


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## Pumilo

Chris Miller said:


> I also only spray them 2-3 times per week but that's the same as other frogs.





InnoEcto said:


> Right now, we mist on them several times a day for about 30 seconds each cycle.


Chris Miller and InnoEcto (Nick and Austin) are both having success even with using a regular watering schedule. (see above)

Mine are too young to be thinking about breeding, but I am currently misting 2 to 3 times a week. I am only misting this much right now because the plants are new. Once the plants are well rooted and established, I plan on dropping to about a once a week misting and see how it goes.


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## curlykid

UPDATE: The frogs have three tadpoles right now, lots of breeding recently.


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## thedude

I just found 4 tads all in the same cup the other day


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## Vliet74

Just found one of my R. Summersi climbing in the tank carrying 5 tads on it's back.










Also found a tad stuck on the leaf of a bromelia!










There also should be a seventh tadpole in the tank somewhere.

What to do next? Leave the parents at it and see whatever happens?
Perhaps its better to let nature take its course. 
Or take the tads out of the tank and try to raise them by hand, but how?
Should I place them individual in a small filmrolcanister filled with water or as a group in a bigger canister? And what to feed them?

Anyone here on the forum with experience with Summersi tads.
All advise is welcome.

Thanks,
Arno


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## thedude

Vliet74 said:


> What to do next? Leave the parents at it and see whatever happens?
> Perhaps its better to let nature take its course.
> Or take the tads out of the tank and try to raise them by hand, but how?
> Should I place them individual in a small filmrolcanister filled with water or as a group in a bigger canister? And what to feed them?
> 
> Anyone here on the forum with experience with Summersi tads.
> All advise is welcome.
> 
> Thanks,
> Arno


Nice job Arno! summersi don't feed their tadpoles eggs, so they would be living off of algae and any dead flies that have fallen in the containers. You could try leaving them in the tank, but I recommend removing them.

Keep them separate in larger containers (I use 16 oz). I feed mine algae, a few dead flies, leaves, and spirulina for the first 2 weeks. After that, start adding in frog bites and fish flakes. Remember to use all of these sparingly as the water can get nasty pretty quick otherwise. I usually put in 1 frog bite at a time, they should be gone in 2 days depending on the stage of development. Once they are larger you can throw 2 in there. And then I use a small pinch of fish flakes that are ground up with spirulina. This has worked well for me with both fantastica and summersi.

Good luck!


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## stu&shaz

Many congratulations Arno,hell i want to see this here,the transport shot is fabulous!!!


Guys could you describe to me what exactly you all see during courtship,as much detail as possible please.I'm seeing her following a bit of head bobbing and stroking him.What do you see?
thanks and regards
Stu


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## Chris Miller

Stutter-y dancing and stroking.


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## Vliet74

Thanks for your advise Adam.
Next day after I saw the transport, a big fight broke out between the females (I kept 1 male and 2 females in a tank) so I had to seperate them.
Problem now is that I don't know I seperated the couple.
I removed two tads from the tank, and the rest (I found 4) are dumped by the male in various locations inside the tank. The four can eat from the algea and dead flies and a bit of spirulina. The other two will get spirulina and dead flies.

I 've put the male and females in one tank together just two weeks before I found a clutch of eggs. So not a long period of courtship.In these two weeks I saw some stroking but not much else.

Hope my other Summersi's will follow soon!!!

Regards,
Arno


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## stu&shaz

Chris Miller said:


> Stutter-y dancing and stroking.


I can't really say more than RRRRROB ---TIC,are we talking some dancing at frogday or summersi
'ere this is something ya won't get every day,good work, Chris,from over here,one day
Stu


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## Vliet74

R. Summersi with tadpoles on it's back.... a regular sight last couple of weeks.


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