# problem with fedex



## nativehunter (May 26, 2015)

So I was suppose to receive frogs today by 10:30am threw fedex. I call around 8 because the tracking hadn't been updated. Supposedly they had mechanical problem and are saying that they arent going to be here till tomarrow.
Will they still be alive or probability of being alive.


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## Evanelectric77 (Mar 17, 2015)

Where are they coming from and what's the weather like?


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

If packaged correctly they should be fine. You should also be due a refund on the shipping


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## nativehunter (May 26, 2015)

They are coming from Philadelphia to oklahoma they where stuck Memphis tn but left there
There at 12:30 pm today


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

As stated above, if packed correctly chances are good they will be ok. I shipped frogs once that were delayed a day due to a freak storm. The buyer and I were nervous, but they arrived alive and well. 
Good luck.


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## zerelli (Sep 14, 2009)

I'm associated with a business that has been shipping fish for 15 years. I can tell you that even with fish a day is usually not a fatal delay barring extreme temps. It can be, but generally it is not. FedEx "lost" a box of fish for a week once that he had shipped and in the box were two large bags with several fish each. One bag all survived and the other all perished and they were in the same box with the same number of fish. This was early on, FedEx has been very dependable to ship animals with in my experience.


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## nativehunter (May 26, 2015)

They all made it alive and active thanks everyone


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## Bighurt (Jun 18, 2011)

nativehunter said:


> So I was suppose to receive frogs today by 10:30am threw fedex. I call around 8 because the tracking hadn't been updated. Supposedly they had mechanical problem and are saying that they arent going to be here till tomarrow.
> Will they still be alive or probability of being alive.


As stated they should be fine if packaged properly.

However since they missed their "Guaranteed" window you should receive a refund on shipping.


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## Alphozo (May 31, 2015)

Certainly an apples to oranges comparison but what about the frogs that are shipped to Europe from CA & SA? Surely that trip takes longer than one day. But I am merely speculating, someone correct if they know otherwise.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Alphozo said:


> Certainly an apples to oranges comparison but what about the frogs that are shipped to Europe from CA & SA? Surely that trip takes longer than one day. But I am merely speculating, someone correct if they know otherwise.


Lots of those shipments wind up DOA, even with decent packaging.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Bighurt said:


> However since they missed their "Guaranteed" window you should receive a refund on shipping.


The shipper would be the one to get the refund not the purchaser as the contract to make the delivery by a certain time is between the shipper and Fedex. 

If I sent something to someone and they came after me because fedex was late I would have some real issues with it and I'm sure I would never send them anything ever again..... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Ed said:


> The shipper would be the one to get the refund not'' the purchaser as the contract to make the delivery by a certain time is between the shipper and Fedex.
> 
> If I sent something to someone and they came after me because fedex was late I would have some real issues with it and I'm sure I would never send them anything ever again.....
> 
> ...


And hence, it is best to request that the shipper request a refund "for you" since you essentially purchased your shipping from him, and he through fed ex. Nothing impolite, improper, or rude about that


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Ed said:


> The shipper would be the one to get the refund not'' the purchaser as the contract to make the delivery by a certain time is between the shipper and Fedex.
> 
> If I sent something to someone and they came after me because fedex was late I would have some real issues with it and I'm sure I would never send them anything ever again.....
> 
> ...


And hence, it is best to request that the shipper request a refund "for you" since you essentially purchased your shipping from him, and he through fed ex. Nothing impolite, improper, or rude about that


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## k5MOW (Jun 19, 2015)

nativehunter said:


> They all made it alive and active thanks everyone



This is great what kind of frogs did you get. 

Roger


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## nativehunter (May 26, 2015)

I got 2 red eye tree frogs, 1 bumble bee luec, 2 amazonica iquitos
They are all doing great.


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## Evanelectric77 (Mar 17, 2015)

Awesome to hear


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pdfCrazy said:


> And hence, it is best to request that the shipper request a refund "for you" since you essentially purchased your shipping from him, and he through fed ex. Nothing impolite, improper, or rude about that


So does that mean as the vendor, you guarantee delivery by a certain time? That is what the above posts are implying. If the shipping company declines the claim, do you them refund the shipping to the buyer? That is what I'm hearing in this thread. 


If I ship something to someone, I'm the person who has the agreement for a service by the shipping company and I'm not guaranteeing that the shipping company will be there by a certain time. I would offer a live arrival guarantee depending on circumstances but to make the claim the buyer is due a refund on shipping from the vendor is more than a little overboard. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Ed said:


> So does that mean as the vendor, you guarantee delivery by a certain time? That is what the above posts are implying. If the shipping company declines the claim, do you them refund the shipping to the buyer? That is what I'm hearing in this thread.
> 
> 
> If I ship something to someone, I'm the person who has the agreement for a service by the shipping company and I'm not guaranteeing that the shipping company will be there by a certain time. I would offer a live arrival guarantee depending on circumstances but to make the claim the buyer is due a refund on shipping from the vendor is more than a little overboard.
> ...


As a seller in a developed economy you tend to guarantee a package and typically that package has many components that are out of your control. Walmart doesn't tell me sorry your item broke because those guys in China made it wrong its not our fault right? No, they have a money back guarantee and policy where they support the client through it all regardless of who's fault it is or how many different parts of the supply chain exists and screwed up. That's because they took the money from me for a transaction and delivered it with a certain set of expectations on the consumers part. 

Personally the way I would view it is, I purchased a product from a person and expected 1 day shipping. And if I did not receive 1 day shipping then my product was not as described. 

The problem with the PDF hobby is we have a lot of people whom are just hobbyist and they really don't have any type of standards or anything. Most of these things just aren't spelled out. There is no TOS so to speak to handle all these rarer cases. And saying a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo doesn't really matter because the hobby does not and should not operate that way, it should operate in a way that is supportive of fair and good practices. 

If you think well the consumer got his product whats the problem geeze consider a very easy scenario like this. The consumer may have planned their day around going to get frogs at 10 in the morning, and maybe they had to take time off work to do that. Then the frogs don't show up and they end up needing to take more time off work to get them the next day. Meanwhile the shipper gets to keep the money that the buyer paid for shipping? I think that would feel wrong to most people and that's a very reasonable scenario given the way we ship hub to hub etc....

Personally I don't care which way it goes all I care about is that people make a standard and stick to it. If we are going to agree the seller gets to keep the money every time then let that standard sweep the hobby and be spelled out as default expectations. Then I and others will know how to calculate risk on a situation.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

I normally set up the shipping myself when receiving frogs. I bought some from Tom last year that showed up 2 hours late and had to take the rest of the day off. SYR issued a refund and it went right back to me. Very easy minus the hassle of taking off


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Ship your reptiles is different than someone using FedEx themselves. SYR has a pretty lenient policy but it isn't the same as FedEx. FedEx has a number of outs for denying claims for people shipping frogs or other animals. First off unless you are using something like SYR, if your not a verified shipper and ship frogs, they can deny the claim if they become aware that the shipments contained frogs as you've violated the TOS. 
In addition, there are other potential exceptions that are going to be hard for the hobbyist to avoid. 



> C. Exceptions. FedEx will not be obligated to refund or credit your transportation charges, residential surcharge or convenient delivery option charge if: 1. We provide you with proof of timely delivery, consisting of the date and time of delivery and, if applicable, the name of the person who signed for the shipment, or service-exception information reflecting that the failure to deliver timely resulted from circumstances described under the Liabilities Not Assumed section. 2. The service failure resulted, in whole or in part, from any of the circumstances described under the Liabilities Not Assumed section. 3. The shipper did not properly label the package in accordance with the FedEx Service Guide, including, without limitation, affixing the correct business name and contact name (for FedEx Ground packages) or recipient name (for FedEx Home Delivery packages) and deliverable address (number, street, city, state, and a five-digit ZIP code) and correctly placing the customer-specific FedEx Ground or FedEx Home Delivery bar-code label on the package. *For FedEx Home Delivery packages, the shipper must print the letter “H” (Home) on the address label in accordance with the FedEx Home Delivery label specifications. *4. The shipper did not timely and accurately transmit all electronic package-level data required, including, but not limited to, any electronic package-level data necessary for package sorting by FedEx Ground, to the extent required by the Shipper’s Agreement with FedEx Ground. For FedEx Appointment Home Delivery shipments, a valid telephone number for the recipient must be included in the data-entry information when the shipment is processed. 5. The package was not picked up by a FedEx Ground driver at the shipper’s location or an alternate address location, at a FedEx Office Print and Ship Center, at a FedEx World Service Center, or at a FedEx Authorized ShipCenter prior to that location’s regular scheduled pickup time. If a package is accepted by FedEx Ground after a location’s regular scheduled pickup time, an additional transit day may be added to the scheduled delivery date. 6. The package was tendered for transportation during the 14 calendar days before Christmas.* 7. The shipment contained special instructions, including, but not limited to, FedEx Ground Call Tag service and FedEx Delivery Signature Options. *8. There was an unexpected large release of packages from your shipping location. 9. A charge for additional handling or address correction applied; see Rates in the FedEx Service Guide for details. 10. FedEx received a request to redirect the shipment from a delivery address to a Hold at FedEx Location address. 11. The package was unauthorized (see the Package Restrictions [Size and Weight] section). 12. The shipment was undeliverable or returned


The sections above in bold are examples of potential problems... For example, if you a signature requirement it can void the ability to file a claim for shipping. 
If it is transported by the Post office at any point, they can waive the claim. 



> Live Animals and Ornamental Marine Life (Including Live Fish)
> FedEx Express does not accept live-animal shipments as part of its regular-scheduled service and does not transport household pets such as dogs, cats, birds and hamsters. FedEx Express may accept certain shipments of live animals such as horses, livestock and zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) on an exception basis if approved and coordinated by the FedEx Live Animal Desk (call 1.800.405.9052).
> 
> If approved by FedEx, we may accept non-venomous reptiles, amphibians, live/tropical fish and beneficial insects on an exception basis under the following conditions:
> ...


Note that if you reuse shipping packages you could be be waiving the right to a refund. 



> FedEx Express National Service Disruption
> June 30, 2015
> FedEx Express experienced substantial flight and sort disruptions at the Memphis hub last night due to severe thunderstorms. Potential delays are possible for package deliveries across the U.S. with a delivery commitment of June 30, 2015. FedEx is committed to provide service to the best of our ability. Please continue to check fedex.com for updates.
> Continue to check the status of your shipments on fedex.com or go to fedex.com for updates to FedEx Service Alerts. You can also contact FedEx Customer Service at 1.800.GoFedEx 1.800.463.3339 or stay up to date by subscribing to service disruption email notifications at the FedEx Email Subscription Center.
> ...


Weather disruptions also waive the ability to get a refund. I should note that as of today the following warning is on SYR website 


> Warning! FedEx Express National Service Disruption
> June 30, 2015
> FedEx Express experienced substantial flight and sort disruptions at the Memphis hub last night due to severe thunderstorms. Potential delays are possible for package deliveries across the U.S. with a delivery commitment of June 30, 2015. FedEx is committed to provide service to the best of our ability. Please continue to check fedex.com for updates.


So with the exception of the great value SYR provides, you can see that if a person chooses to ship FedEx themselves it is easy to void the claim. Shipping frogs to a person's house for their hobby can void it, leave an H off the label can void it... so can requiring a signature. So to make the blanket claim that a vendor is responsible to refund the buyer is a problem. In many cases it is likely that if there is a delay, it will be under the exceptions covered by FedEx's exclusions so for people to make statements that a refund for shipping is automatically due, is far from reality. 

*When discussing shipments involving FedEx, people need to not assume that it is through SYR as it can be directly through FedEx.* 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Aldross, PDFcrazy, et al,

It's quite common to see a live arrival guarantee between hobbyists. I have never seen an on-time arrival guarantee. Why would a seller guarantee something that he has no power over, or eat the cost on something that is not his fault? I understand the inconvenience a late arrival is on the receiving end, but having been on both ends of that transaction, the sellers side isn't much more fun. Much of the day becomes wrapped up in phone calls trying to track down the package, get an ETA and keeping the buyer informed of any developments.

Also, would you expect the same delivery refund if the package was 1 minute late? 10 minutes late? One hour late? As was mentioned, Fedex offers no refund on late arrivals and they are often late. SYR offers on-time arrival insurance, but should the seller have to pay for the insurance that the buyer collects on? Most people selling frogs here are not Walmart. Most hobbyists here, myself included, are just making enough money from sales to support the collection. It wouldn't take very many late shipments to erase any incentive to ship at all. 

The closest thing to a solution I have found is this; I only ship via SYR. I make no "on-time" promises (How could I?). Along with the shipping cost, I give the buyer the opportunity to pay for late arrival insurance. Oddly most people opt not to. If they don't pay for it, I do. This covers loss, destruction, etc.,but then if the package is late, I collect on the insurance that I paid for.


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