# Best type of FF?



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Another Fruit Fly question.

After failing at culturing I need to buy new fruit flies. Only now do I realize there are more than just hydei or melongascar.

I picked up some hydei to tie my frogs over and it took them a day but they are starting to go after them. Is one kind of fruit fly better for our flies than another? I read somewhere that the golden flies are better for our frogs, but why? Which type of fly should I raise? The hydei I picked up have wings which makes me nervous...

I've seen:
-golden melos
-gliding turks
-'regular' melos
-golden gliding turks
-black hydei
-golden hydei

I planned on ordering from Genesis Exotics unless someone is local in SoCal or can steer me in a better direction. I already have USAfrog and JoshsFrog media and supplies.

Since I'm starting new I might as well raise the best flies for my auratus, variabilis and ventrimaculatus.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!


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## macuser (Oct 8, 2015)

you would want flies that are more popular because there is more information readily available on their care. since you have smaller frogs, wingless d melanogaster would be a good staple food source for them. melanogaster cultures will produce flies before Hydei cultures, your froglets may be able to eat melanogaster flies out of water, and they are wingless and i read somewhere that excessive heat can straighten the wings of some flightless flies making them fliers. the last one may be bs but i wanted to list 3 reasons. 

below are good threads on producing healtier genetically superior flies. you should also consider making multiple cultures with different levels of water, different lids if possible and place them in different parts of your house to see which cultures stay alive.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/202769-culture-production-health.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/42419-genetics-ff-culturing.html


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

macuser said:


> you would want flies that are more popular because there is more information readily available on their care. since you have smaller frogs, wingless d melanogaster would be a good staple food source for them. melanogaster cultures will produce flies before Hydei cultures, your froglets may be able to eat melanogaster flies out of water, and they are wingless and i read somewhere that excessive heat can straighten the wings of some flightless flies making them fliers. the last one may be bs but i wanted to list 3 reasons.
> 
> below are good threads on producing healtier genetically superior flies. you should also consider making multiple cultures with different levels of water, different lids if possible and place them in different parts of your house to see which cultures stay alive.
> 
> ...


 I read into the lids and location and have since corrected those mistakes. 

That is some really good info in those threads. I appreciate it.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I would suggest a big one and a little one. I am not sure it matters a great deal as to which of the varieties of each, though there are some differences. I culture Hydei and one flavor of melanogaster because the cultures rarely crash for both at the same time. That way I only have to replace one species when I get a crash and can feed half my frogs without interruption. I also like having more melos because they can always be fed to bigger frogs but the reverse is not true. Another factor is that you can keep feeding longer with melos if need be than Hydei. I usually only get, at most, two hatches out of Hydei cultures because of their longer generation time. Melos have a shorter generation time and have smoother output because of it. You have to plan ahead more with Hydei. I feed all of my big frogs and anthonyii (they think they are big) on Hydei because they get more bang for their caloric buck with bigger prey. 

Lots of random stuff there, but hopefully it gives you some ideas.

Mark


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Encyclia said:


> I would suggest a big one and a little one. I am not sure it matters a great deal as to which of the varieties of each, though there are some differences. I culture Hydei and one flavor of melanogaster because the cultures rarely crash for both at the same time. That way I only have to replace one species when I get a crash and can feed half my frogs without interruption. I also like having more melos because they can always be fed to bigger frogs but the reverse is not true. Another factor is that you can keep feeding longer with melos if need be than Hydei. I usually only get, at most, two hatches out of Hydei cultures because of their longer generation time. Melos have a shorter generation time and have smoother output because of it. You have to plan ahead more with Hydei. I feed all of my big frogs and anthonyii (they think they are big) on Hydei because they get more bang for their caloric buck with bigger prey.
> 
> Lots of random stuff there, but hopefully it gives you some ideas.
> 
> Mark


Awesome info. I had to search far and wide locally and paid $10 for a dying melo culture at Petco. I got one small feeding out of it and now there's no adults.... Fortunately I was able to get some good hydei cultures from a local shop. Luckily my vents and variabilis seem to go for them no problem now, my auratus seem to like them too, but I don't see them much so....

Just reading the different descriptions about 'gliders invoking a strong feeding response' made my buy into the marketing hype. I also read somewhere that golden colored flies help keep frogs colored, but I call BS on that one after researching a little bit on here.

Looks like my 'regular' flightless melo cultures are still viable so I think I'll be sticking to those and hydei for now.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I do have gliders, too, and I like them. They are active and they seem to have a slightly shorter generation time than some other melos, too. Petco cultures are ok for starting new cultures, but you don't get enough to feed out of them for long, in my experience. Great for emergencies, though. Finally, I should mention that older cultures put out smaller flies, at least for me, and I can sometimes take advantage of that to feed "older" Hydei to smaller frogs. I can also feed melos from older cultures to my froglets. It shortens the springtail phase a bit sometimes.

Mark


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## OrangeD (Oct 8, 2015)

I like turkish gliders (melanogaster). They are close to the wild phenotype. The cultures produce like crazy. They are very prolific on Josh's media. I start two cultures a week (in case 1 crashes). I have 13 frogs. The excess I feed to small/baby geckos. 

With supplement dust on them, they can't glide much and behave like the wingless varieties. 

I have trouble with culturing hydei by comparison. The minimum temperature needs to be high sixties at night low seventies during the day.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

I keep wingless melos and Turkish gliders. The gliders are much more robust in their reproduction. However, they also are more robust in their movement. They crawl much faster out of feeding/dusting cups than wingless flies and escapees travel further through the house.

I keep both because to my eye (since they have not wings) the wingless look a little smaller. When I have babies, I try to give them the wingless with the idea they are easier to catch and not quite such a mouthful.


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

I agree with Phender. I keep the melos as a main food supply since they produce better and at a faster rate than hydei and are much easier to catch by the frogs. Having to order more is now very rare since I switched to melos. They also crash at a slower rate so you can still feed out stunted flies from a nearly dead culture. These smaller flies from a late producing culture are great for frogs just OTW. If you keep these older cultures keep them in a dish of water in case you get mites. Melos also seem to get fewer mites in my experience. 

I like melos especially for the smaller frogs like pumilios, vanzos and imis. but tincs like them too. My Terribs will eat them also but they seem a bit disappointed. Golden or regular melos don't seem to make much of a difference; both are good. For a few years when I was keeping only 4 vivs. 1 or 2 melo cultures was all I was using and I normally had more flies than I needed.

I try to keep a Golden Hydei culture going for the larger frogs though as of late the Turkish Gliders have been taking their place. They have the melo faster production rate with the higher level of activity of the hydei. They do tend to escape a lot more so I kept them mainly as a treat at first. They are suitable for the larger frogs and seem to increase the level of activity in the viv. as they bounce around more. Keep the viv. closed for a while after feeding...I tend to pour them into the container I use for vitamins inside a viv. so the excess doesn't get all over the room. 

I have ordered from Genesis with good results though their packaging could have been better. I had an Iso culture open up in the box and nearly dry out.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

That was the input I was looking for! If one isn't nutritional superior, I wanted to know if my frogs would 'like' one better than the other.

I was reading about the turkish gliders and if their movement would excite my frogs a little more. The regular melo's I have seem to just want to dust themselves off and stay stationary so I feed immediately before the mister goes off. My frogs seem to go after these guys with enthusiasm regardless.

Hydei are very active but they seem to perch very high up in corners of the tank. My vents and variabilis go after them, but my auratus don't eat as much and didn't all come out of hiding to eat like they do with the melo's. My frogs seem to have less than half the enthusiasm for hydei than they do melongaster.

I think I will try with the 'turkish gliders' as well as the cultures I have going. My melongaster cultures ended up producing again. Yay.


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

I opened a culture of turkish gliders that I left sitting on top of my light fixture area. It got warm. When i opened it tons of turkish gliders became turkish flyers. My wife doesn't like it.


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

I've never had that kind of thing happen where they actually fly but care should be taken when opening a container of Gliders. They will hop up and out in all directions and the greater mobility they have means many will escape and can only be squashed at that point. 

A few taps on the top of the container and a little vigilance will go a long way here. 
Another method that works well is to put the container with flies and supplement added in the fridge for a minute or two, with a cover on of course. Remove from the fridge, shake and feed out immediately. They will be a little slower till they warm up giving the frogs a better chance at them at first. Fewer will escape the initial feed this way.

I've fed out wingless melos where only 1 or 2 got out on the counter and these could be easily scooped up. They also don't tend to hide near the top of the viv. and make a break for it when the lid is open for hand misting. Wingless melos are by far the most idiot proof of all the feeders I've used and are good for feeding most frogs.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

I will take care when feeding with the gliders. I think I might try the fridge trick.

My hydei are really bothering me. 3 days after feeding there's some still hanging out in random spots in the vivarium. My vents and variabilis are getting fat eating a ton and my auratus barely eat any. 

Escapees are taken care of by a nepenthes next to my tanks. I've already found a few fruit flies in it's pitchers.


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

Yeah, if you are going to order from Genesis get some golden wingless melos and use them for the auratus. The Panamanian auratus I keep are amoung the smallest of the group and they eat those greedily. Daily feeds of 15 to 20 per frog normally disappear within hour or two. It's also good to have some ample micro fauna in the viv. but they won't respond as enthusiastically when add FFs.


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