# Vietnamese/Indochinese biotope



## Joe S (Jun 15, 2013)

Hey folks, I am a husbandry specialist with The Turtle Room and I am in need of some assistance. I currently work with a few species of Vietnamese/Indochinese species of turtles and I am planning to create a far more natualistic vivarium for them this year. With that said I am running into a few walls. 

When it comes to design for the enclosure I have no problems except for plant species to use. When it comes to plants I am useless. So I am looking for some help with choosing Vietnamese/Indochinese vivarium plant species to use.

I want to use ferns and mosses mainly, with the addition of trailing and vining plants. Both species tend to hide most of the time, but one species is bulky and will easily trample most plants, so some larger/stronger plants would be great as well.

Here is some more information:

G. Spengleri (Black breasted leaf turtle) will be housed individually in 18'' square Exo Terra terrariums creating a fallen log type scene.

C. M. Obsti (Keeled box turtle) will be housed in a group setting in a 4'x8' box style enclosure.

Both will have moderate to high humidity.

So my question is, would anyone be willing to assist me with listing off some native plants for these enclosures? I have seen that many of you really love the plants you work with as much as the frogs, so please share some of your brilliance with me.

Thank you very much.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

I think all of these are native to Vietnam and shouldn't be too hard to track down.

_Aglaonema simplex
Asplenium nidus
Davallia tyermanii
Epipremnum pinnatum
Ficus pumila
Ficus sagittata
Ficus villosa
Huperzia phlegmaria
Pyrrosia lingua
Pyrrosia piloselloides_

_Asplenium nidus_ does get huge but it's a slow grower and they are inexpensive so you could always just replace it with a smaller one once it's too big.


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## Joe S (Jun 15, 2013)

Thank you very much Sammie. This will help a lot.

I think I am going to try out some orchids as well. I appreciate this


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

_Bulbophyllum affine
Bulbophyllum clandestinum
Bulbophyllum frostii
Bulbophyllum lepidum
Bulbophyllum nigrescens
Bulbophyllum odoratissimum
Bulbophyllum sessile
Dendrobium jenkinsii

Ludisia discolor _

Other than _Bulbophyllum spp._ I'm not very familiar with SE Asian orchids, but luckily there are others on here that are so I'm sure you'll get more suggestions.


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## Joe S (Jun 15, 2013)

Even better. Thank you much for this! Looks like I have some learning to do with keeping orchids. I appreciate all the help you have provided.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)




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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

I have a huge respect for hobbyists that go the way of biotopic. It takes a tremendous amount creativity,time, learning, knowledge, luck, and finance. To me, the is the ultimate challenge, and show of the trade.
My advice to anyone going down this path is be patient. Anything great, beautiful, and correct wasn't build overnight. Take your time, to avoid costly mistakes. Also please be willing to share what you have learned. I will love to see this section of our hobby grow. By sharing, you are doing apart.
I really do wish you well with your project. If I come across any information in the meantime, I will make sure that I post it here.
Again, good luck


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

As promised, I done a little research. Here's is a site specialize in Asiatic plants for sale :.:: Asiatic Green ::.:: Home Page :: " Welcome to Asiatic Green! "

The good news is that base here in the United States.


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## Joe S (Jun 15, 2013)

Charlesbrooks, thank you for finding this link, this should help me out a great deal.

The builds I am planning will not be an overnight success story. Its taking a lot of planning and researching and will likely take 3-5 months of time to finally get off the ground and going. But with that said I honestly believe it will be worth the effort in the long run.

Many of the Asiatic species of turtles I work with are, for the most part, direct imports from their native regions. Many times this can make successful propagation and acclimation a very difficult thing to accomplish. I have been successful so far with bringing the animals I have back into health, but from this point on it is all about time. 

My goal is to make their enclosures as close to a native biosphere as I can. I believe this will help with overall health and breeding of the animals, which can take years with fresh imports. 

Plants are something I know very little about, and there for will take the most time researching to make as few mistakes as I can. They will also be the last thing I invest in, as the enclosures will need to be completely created before I even start buying plants. Ill be sure to share my adventure into this with this community. While they are not dart frogs, I hope folks here can still enjoy the effort I have put into creating the vivariums.

Thanks again.


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## snake54320 (Dec 16, 2011)

Considering theses turtles will be wild caught, are you going to quarantine them ? (just curious)
Just my opinion (and this is off-topic so I won't make a big deal) but 24" exo-terra cubes seem very small espacially for captured animals and for breeding purposes. 

Sammie did a great job in listing the plants, I'd just add Humata heterophylla 

Regards,


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## Joe S (Jun 15, 2013)

snake54320 said:


> Considering theses turtles will be wild caught, are you going to quarantine them ? (just curious)
> Just my opinion (and this is off-topic so I won't make a big deal) but 24" exo-terra cubes seem very small espacially for captured animals and for breeding purposes.
> 
> Sammie did a great job in listing the plants, I'd just add Humata heterophylla
> ...


Fair question. To start off out of the 10 animals in question 5 are of wild origin. One has been in captivity for 6 years and the other 4 have been in captivity for a year and a half. All have been vetted by me and have tested clean of any parasitic activity by vets. So that isn't of any concern any longer. The quarantine period was a nightmare to say the least. The remaining 5 are CB animals and still very young.

G. spengleri are incredibly sedentary and almost never exceed 4.5''. They rarely move unless its for water or to seek higher ground to wait for the chance of seeing prey. There are a number of insurance colonies with in the US and Europe that keep this species solitary with in small enclosures. The largest solitary enclosure I have noted is 40cmx80cm, while the 18'' cubed enclosures are not as large, these will be sufficient. I have seen great development of my CB animals in 24''x12'' enclosures. Breeding this species a rather fast process if the female is willing and much of that is based on size and the feeling of security. 

C. m. obsti are still rather unobserved in both nature and captivity, although successful captive breeding has been done. This species is treated similar to North American box turtle species, while being kept much more humid. Their enclosure plans have been slightly redesigned. A trio will be kept in a 4'x8' enclosure and the other male will be kept in a 2'x4' enclosure. Currently they reside in enclosures that are slightly smaller, but I still do not see much activity from them which seems normal for the dominant of the species.

I appreciate your concern, and as always improvements can always be made as required.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

I was looking at some plants today for upcoming projects and found two more you could add to your list, _Pellionia pulchra_ and _P. repens_.

Both are easy to find and I think _P. pulchra_ in particular is a real looker.


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## Joe S (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks again sammie! Those do look great! I have also found a fair number of other species that should work great.


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## DJReptile (Mar 9, 2009)

I would suggest checking out Heirloom Seeds | Baker Creek Heirloom Seed Co. They sell heirloom seeds for gardening including several varieties of squash, eggplant and cucumber from Laos and Vietnam. I'd consider any of the Hmong varieties. 

The plants are prolly too big for your small enclosures but for the larger, 4' one I bet they'd do really well and the fruits would probably still be appreciated by the little guys. I used to help out at a place called Rainforest Adventures in TN. We would grow cucumber, squash and melon vines in the outdoor tortoise enclosures during the spring and summer and the animals loved it. We'd start them growing in early spring then move the tortoises out late spring/early summer. Worked quite well.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Um, where in the enclosure are these to be planted? As mentioned, Pellionia (and Pilea) are native to Vietnam, but if grown terrestrially, they will quickly be trampled. Same can be said of some terrestrial ferns, as well as jewel orchids. 

--While it is stretching it a bit, there are several cool begonias and jewel orchids from Malaysia, these could be grown on top of a fallen log. 
--One could try a small Alocasia in the corner as "foundation" plant;
--Maybe a Hoya sp. or ant plant in a planter, i.e., up off the ground?


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I've recently become enamored with the genus Coelogyne . You should check into them. They are easy and fast to make specimens.


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## Joe S (Jun 15, 2013)

Groundhog said:


> Um, where in the enclosure are these to be planted? As mentioned, Pellionia (and Pilea) are native to Vietnam, but if grown terrestrially, they will quickly be trampled. Same can be said of some terrestrial ferns, as well as jewel orchids.
> 
> --While it is stretching it a bit, there are several cool begonias and jewel orchids from Malaysia, these could be grown on top of a fallen log.
> --One could try a small Alocasia in the corner as "foundation" plant;
> --Maybe a Hoya sp. or ant plant in a planter, i.e., up off the ground?


You are correct, many of these plants can be easily trampled. Spengleri grow to around 180g at the most and generally shouldn't pose much of a threat to a lot of the plants. Many of the vining or epiphyte plants will be grown out of reach, or at least started above and allowed to trail down. There will be plenty of wood, cork, epiweb and hygrolon available for plants to grow and climb. 

I am finding it hard to really visualize many of these plants with in the enclosures. I have just about all of my components for the spengleri build available or on order. So I just need to get it all set up and running before I plant things. I plan to lightly plant their enclosures and allow plants to grow in and if needed add more or change things out to find what works best. These enclosures are priority one as they are going to be featured in a book of the species. So I will happily take your ideas and see what works best.

The second build will be a little more challenging as I need to wait for it to free up first, the enclosure, before I can really start anything. But the Obsti will gladly smash stuff to bits and are incredible climbers. I plan to set aside most of my larger drift wood, 2-5', for them and keep plants above the ground. 




epiphytes etc. said:


> I've recently become enamored with the genus Coelogyne . You should check into them. They are easy and fast to make specimens.


Excellent! I love this. I would love to add some color to the enclosures. Thank you, I will certainly look into these!


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