# Isopod Genetics?



## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

So I have a culture of powder blue isopods and lo and behold a leucistic one popped up!










I am also 95% sure I saw at least one pied one as well. I am wondering what the best course of action might be to isolate the trait and perhaps get them to breed true. I have a BS in Biology so I have a fairly good understanding of genetics. I am assuming that I should isolate the leuc and maybe the pied as well. I am not sure what sex they are but am going to try and find out (I'd assume I should hope female but then again maybe a male could spread its genes more if it didn't have a lot of competition).

I have a couple questions:

1. Are leucs a double recessive trait like albinism?

2. Would a pied have that same mutation as an all leuc?

3. If so would a pied and a leuc breed true? Would I get a mix of both or more of one or another?

4. Do you think it would be worth the effort to isolate or should I just leave them in the original colony? I sold off some a while back and didn't have crazy numbers before that so I don't have too many in the colony. If I isolate how many regular isos should I put in to maximize the chances of a leuc carrier?

Thank you in advance.


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## DPfarr (Nov 24, 2017)

It’s hard to say without someone who’s bred them right? Could be more than one allele that controls this. If it isn’t, and is a single trait double recessive cross then an F2 backcross might work. 

F1 Leucistic (ll) x wild type (wt) = Ll 
F2 Ll x ll = 50% ll 

Then pull the F2 ll and you could be set w your new pop.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Looks as if the whites have been isolated already (that isn't to say that you shouldn't isolate the genes you have): https://captiveisopoda.com/products/porcellionides-pruinosus-white-out

I've no evidence that there's a pied morph of that species in existence, so definitely look for that one.

I agree that breeding the visual gene carrier to any other isos in the colony, then pairing the visual to the heterozygous offspring would be a good way to proceed. This would also answer questions 1-3.

As to Q #4, since you'd be making non-visual carriers, it makes sense to try to sex the visual leucistic, then cross it with as many of the opposite sex you can find. Random mixing of sexes would make it impossible for you to find the het offspring, since many of them won't be carriers.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Looks as if the whites have been isolated already (that isn't to say that you shouldn't isolate the genes you have): https://captiveisopoda.com/products/porcellionides-pruinosus-white-out
> 
> I've no evidence that there's a pied morph of that species in existence, so definitely look for that one.
> 
> ...


Aw shucks hoping I was the first  but now I know they're out there and what someone charges for them, thanks! Yeah I figured I should isolate it, it's probably breeding age now and I should try to get as many babies as possible while it's around.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

thedudeabides said:


> Aw shucks hoping I was the first  but now I know they're out there and what someone charges for them, thanks! Yeah I figured I should isolate it, it's probably breeding age now and I should try to get as many babies as possible while it's around.


I don't know anything about isopods, really, but in some reptiles there are numerous genetic ways to make a leucistic animal. Sometimes it is one recessive gene, sometimes (as in ball pythons) 'lucys' are the "super" (homozygous) form of some visually very different dominant gene; there are a handful of such super forms, all seperately sought after. 

So, you might have something new.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Found the pied!


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I don't know anything about isopods, really, but in some reptiles there are numerous genetic ways to make a leucistic animal. Sometimes it is one recessive gene, sometimes (as in ball pythons) 'lucys' are the "super" (homozygous) form of some visually very different dominant gene; there are a handful of such super forms, all seperately sought after.
> 
> So, you might have something new.


Thanks for the info! Genetics can get so convoluted.


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## kcexotics (Jul 23, 2012)

Aren't these parthenogenetic?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

kcexotics said:


> Aren't these parthenogenetic?


Not normally:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20103475?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Although it seems that a pathogen can cause isopods to shift to parthenogenic reproduction:

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ity-within-Porcellionides-species-complex.pdf


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

thedudeabides said:


> Found the pied!


So cool!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

thedudeabides said:


> Thanks for the info! Genetics can get so convoluted.


You're welcome!

It gets more complicated, apparently; what is known currently as _Porcellionides pruinosus_ (the 'powder blue') is thought to be more than one species:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2540.2001.00920.x


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

Isn't Porcellionides pruinosus always orange?


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## Captain Awesome (Jan 13, 2018)

Are you sure this is not a temporary thing? It may be an unhardened exoskeleton as these appear white and will go away with time.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> It gets more complicated, apparently; what is known currently as _Porcellionides pruinosus_ (the 'powder blue') is thought to be more than one species:
> 
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2540.2001.00920.x


Very interesting thanks for the info.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Tijl said:


> Isn't Porcellionides pruinosus always orange?


There are different varieties. There are the powder blue and the powder orange common names sold in the hobby. They are both Porcellionides pruinosus.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Captain Awesome said:


> Are you sure this is not a temporary thing? It may be an unhardened exoskeleton as these appear white and will go away with time.


That is the reason I said I was 95% sure in my first post. But this one is definitely different than when the shed their exos. Trust me I have seen enough of them to know the difference.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Another thing. I isolated the leuc and pied into a seperate container. I think I saw another leuc but could not find him when I was ready to remove him. I was finding it difficult to determine sex even with a microscope. I am going to try again shortly.

When I started this culture it was when I broke down a paludarium I had and added the isos from that into a viv I built and some into this current culture. I think I started with ~8 isos or so. I wonder if this genetic bottleneck (and a whole lot of luck) helped to create these guys.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I had these ('White Out', it seems the morph is called) pop and are thriving in my Powder Orange culture (no pieds yet, unfortunately). The dude was first, though.


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