# From Mint Choc to Strawberry Vanilla - E. anthonyi



## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I just came home with 6 of these really cute froggies. A friend of mine said that they look like mint chocolate. They came from Terraristika Hamm, I wasn't able to go there myself, but luckily there seems to be lots of really nice, cool and helpful people in this hobby and one of that kind helped me and brought me these cuties.

They are really active and already eating. They were sold as _E. tricolor_ and I have no idea what morph these are.

Here's some not so good pictures since I didn't want to bother them too much and just took couple of pictures and left them alone:


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Very nice frogs! I love them! I'm sure someone will chime in on what morph it is for you. Post more pics when they get settled in.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thanks! I just love these, they are just as cute as my vittatus babies (I got 2 more of them too, from the same Finnish breeder I got their siblings from too) and so bold already, I have a feeling that these ones will have lots of temperament too. 

I will definitely take more pictures when they have settled in.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Looks like they might be Moraspunga. They're lines are thicker and not as straight as San Isabels, but there's at least a possibility that they might be highlands (not too sure what the visual difference is between them and Moras other than more green on the back)


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Very nice, and you may want to check to see if they are the same frogs. Couple look a bit different. Not saying they are as there can be some variation, but might be worth looking into.


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## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

Oh my gosh, those are beautiful!!! congrats. this is the next morp on my list.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

If I understood it right, these should be all related to each other, there's 3 a bit smaller ones and 3 a bit larger ones. I just took some more pictures and I think I was able to get a picture of every one of them this time (and they didn't even escape from the container while I did that ). 

Older ones:




























Younger ones:



















This one really looks much more green than others.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I really think they look like Moraspunga more than the pics of highlands I have seen. I saw some moraspunga very recently that a guy I know got ( :wink: ) and they are almost identical. If you want to wait til Bill (elmoisfive) takes a look, or PM him, he has both types and can probably give you a pretty definitive answer


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I don't agree with ya Stace. They don't look like the Moras I had back when. The center line was more of a blotchyness on mine. I've been wrong before though.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

This is interesting.  Moraspunga would be the logical morph since these were said to be nominate tricolors (I forgot to mention that, watching these pretties seem to make my brain stop working, they are just too cute to comprehend).


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

They are closer to Highlands than to Moraspunga and both those morphs are considered true tricolors. I will post a series of photos tomorrow comparing and contrasting the two morphs.

Beautiful frogs though Satu and I predict that you will really enjoy them. They prefer temperatures a bit cooler than most other dart frogs. 

Best of luck with them and don't hesitate to contact me if you have questions.

Bill

P.S. Corey (KeroKero) has tons of knowledge about tricolors as well so she is a good source of information


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Oh, truely fascinating. I suppose mine should stay as "just tricolors" with no spesific morph name since they came to me as just nominate tricolors. That way I won't be misleading anyone if these will some day breed and I'd sell their offspring. But just for the fun of it it's entertaining to try to ponder which morph they are and while at it, I will definitely learn more of the species.

I chose both _P. vittatus_ and _E. tricolor_ because of their temperature preferences, I like those temperatures too. Here in Finland there's not that many truely hot days in summer time so during most of the year the temperature in this room stays well within the preferred limits for both myself and the frogs. Lucky us. 

And thank you Bill for the help. It will be great to see the pictures tomorrow. 

Oh, and here's a picture of the three smaller ones, out of focus, but you can see the colour difference:


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Frogtofall said:


> I don't agree with ya Stace. They don't look like the Moras I had back when. The center line was more of a blotchyness on mine. I've been wrong before though.


You know, now that you mention it and I took a second look at the ones I have seen, I agree about the blotchiness of the center line. On the Moras I noticed what I would call almost a squiggly line in the middle rather than the fairly uniform lines on these. I always thought the highlands had a lot more green spread over the back, but I'll have to take Bill word on this one!


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

It's entirely possible that they are a morph of tricolor/anthonyii that is not present in the US. I would try to contact some European hobbyists (or track down the seller), to get a real, positive ID.


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

all of the frogs seem to have that little circle on it's head with no color. It seems like the moraspungas have that whenever I see them.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

One other thing I'd like to add is that the Moras I've seen (about 5 total) all had a very dark bronze background with a very limey green on top. The green on these is almost blueish-minty and the background color is lighter. Then again, variance is a strong possibility. I like Clayton's idea that these could be a morph we don't have yet.

In the end I'm sure we all agree that they are pretty sweet frogs.


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

Yeah, they are sweet.


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## Mikko (Sep 23, 2005)

Hi Satu!

Great to hear that the little fellows made it in Kurikka fine! I have asked Frank about the closer info in these, but anyway I´m pretty glad with his frogs, including the highlands I got which seem pretty distinct from those. I saw some similar kind of tricolors for sale on some other tables in Hamm, but in those there was only a german name, and I was too busy to try mumbling any german.

-Mikko


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Mikko, thank you again for bringing these cuties. You did a good job and I couldn't be happier! Would be nice to see pictures of you Highlands too (and the others). 

I hope that the breeder will have some more information about the morph. 

I used flash when I took the pictures and I think the frogs are a wee bit darker in real life, but they really are more bluish than greenish, except the one that's definitely green. The others are minty and that one is lime. But it's the smallest, so maybe the colour will change a bit when it grows? 

And a weird thing happened today. I heard a sound that was just like tricolor calling, but it happened only once, so I can't be sure. And I don't know if these are old enough to call already. But it really got me baffled.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Moraspunga pics - some of same frog but different angle/orientation.

Bill


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

(long story)

Very nice Bill. Oh so very nice.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Highland morph - the green color tends to be washed out by the camera flash.

Bill


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Beautiful frogs!

I'm gonna be a you know what and just throw out one thing that was bothering me. You should probably put a layer of long fibered spaghnam or something overtop of the hydroton (leca). I've heard horror stories about crushed froggies. :shock:


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Maybe I am confused Bill, but you said earlier they lend more to Highlands, but from your pics I would say they look more like Moras. I could be wrong since I have only seen the Moras and not the highlands, but look at the pics below and tell me what looks more alike..

Mora









one of satu's frogs









and finally the highlands









I don't know, but I just don't see it. I kinda like Clayton's idea that this may be a morph we don't have here in the US.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Bluedart: Yeah, the substrate was something I was pondering about too and I've been slowly replacing it with spaghnum moss since I arrived home with these. When I took those pictures, about half of the substrate was already spaghnum. Now it's all spaghnum. I was thinking about putting the spaghnum on top of the leca balls, but then I thought about the possibility of the frogs digging underneath the spaghnum and reaching the balls and I decided to use only spaghnum. I don't know how common it is for frogs to burrow to the substrate, but I don't want to take any chances now. 

Oh, and I managed to roughly measure the froggies. The three smaller ones are about 14 millimetres and 3 larger ones are 15-18 millimetres.

Thank you Bill for showing the pictures. So, most of my frogs have the same hue as the Highlands usually have, but the patterns look more like Moraspunga. The smallest green one looks really close to Moraspunga to me. Well, they are cute, whatever they are. 

Oh, and put all the pictures together (and replaced two of them with better ones, there's still different white balance in some of the pictures since I let the camera to decide it, but it's close enough even though the hues differ a wee bit) so it's easier to compare all my frogs. It's not hard to see who looks like it's not even related to others, here.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Satu,

My comment about Highlands was focused on the coloration but to the points you and Stace raised earlier, the patterning is more similar to Moraspunga. Part of the problem we in the US have is that some of these morphs are pretty rare in the hobby so individuals are lucky if they've seen multiple examples of them in the flesh so to speak.

Hopefully the breeder will be able to provide some better answer.

Good luck.

Bill


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Good! Save the leca though, cause when you get to work on a permanent tank (if this isn't it) leca makes a great drainage layer.


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## lorenz0 (Sep 24, 2006)

wow awsome tri-colors

these guys have such a nice call. always enjoyed how much energy these guys had.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you Bill for the help. I know it must be rather difficult to try to guess the right morph of frogs that you have never seen in person and which have been bred in Germany, but you and the others have helped me alot. Thank you so much for that. 

Josh, yeah, I will definitely save the leca. Looks like I might even finish the tricolor vivarium before I manage to finish the vittatus vivarium that already has the panes of glas ready. So I will be needing substrate thingies soon. 

I knew these would be active and bolder than vittatus, but I'm still surprised how bold they really are. 

I opened the lid a bit for a while to let the air change in the tank and one of them was just sitting on a plant leaf and staring at me (it's the first one in the pictures I showed before, named as A). So, since it wasn't going anywhere, I took my camera and took some pictures of it. Here's a 1280x690 sized version of this one in the message.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2006)

^ my new wallpaper 

great pics Satu! as usual you do a great job of showing the beauty of your frogs. i cant wait to get some tricolors of my own.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Satu,

Have you received any word back from the breeder about the morph of these frogs? Thanks.

Bill


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2006)

I have a strong compulsion to say that they aren't Moraspungas or Highlands...but E. anthonyi. They look more like 'Santa Isabels' to me than anything, just with wider stripes than most of us in the U.S. hobby see on them.


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## Mikko (Sep 23, 2005)

Satu&others

Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news, but the breeder hasn´t responded from the email-address I managed to reach him earlier, I think that´s the address he uses when selling frogs, and now he sold all of his offspring in Hamm. I have his phonenumber though but I don´t think I´m going to call him to Germany. So from the breeders part there doesn´t come any more clarification unfortunately. But one thing´s for sure and that is that those are some very purdy froggies, no matter what morph of tricolor they are. 

And hey Satu, I would post pictures if I had some camera+skills to take pictures  Sadly now as I´m lacking both, my pictures would turn out as a blurry blobs in a blurry surroundings, but all of the frogs have made it perfectly, even the one tiny one that probably got a bit dehydrated.

-Mikko


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

skylsdale: I've been thinking about that possibility. Do anthonyi have smooth skin compared to tricolor? At least it looks like that in the pictures I've seen and my youngsters in the other hand don't have a smooth skin. But since I am a newbie, I don't know if that's of any importance when trying to figure out the species/morph. 

Oh, and either I am going crazy, there's a small bird in the attic or one of these frogs really is calling already. It has happened three times now, first two times I heard one call that lasted only a few seconds. Today I heard the culprit calling twice in a minute. Can that be possible? The biggest ones are 1,5 to 1,8 cm and 6 months, smaller ones are 3 months.

Mikko, oh, too bad about the breeder not answering the email. But well, I'm sure we'll be able to figure this out eventually. Good to hear that your froggies are doing well too.


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2006)

rain-

I'm not sure that would be a very accurate wait to differentiate between the groups. For the most part, my anthonyi have a 'rougher' (more granular) skin surface...unless I've sprayed or they're on the rocks at the water's edge, and then it appears smoother. But, I doubt that would be something that could clearly dileneate between tricolors and anthonyi.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I'm sure you're right about that. And I suppose that would have been a too easy solution for telling them apart anyway. 

And I am definitely hearing someone calling from the tricolor tanks (if I didn't mention, the three larger ones live together and the three smaller ones live together untill I finish their large vivarium). It doesn't sound like the frog is really sure of itself yet, but it's getting better, today it called three times in a row. 

If I would have to guess, I'd say that it's the frog A, it's the boldest and largest. Frog C has started to hang around with the frog A, they are now sitting close to each other on a leaf. It's really fun to observe these cuties. 

October 5th:

I took some pictures when I was trying out my first macro lens (Canon EF-S 60mm) with Digital Rebel XT. From the small baby tank, first frog E and then frog F:


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I decided to move the older froggies to a larger and higher tank since they seem to be so active that I thought they might appreciate more room while waiting for their vivarium to be finished (seems that my vivarium projects will take some time since I just don't seem to have time to make them yet). 

Looks like they enjoy the new place and are rather relaxed and I even heard a short call from the tank.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Very nice! Glad to see they are doing well for you. Good luck!

Bill


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you. 

Last week I had my first scare with fruit flies. I was a bit careless when I was cleaning my room and left the window open for almost a day (and the fruit fly cultures were close to the window). I think the temperature fluctuations caused evaporation and there was lots of moisture in the bottle sides. Before I noticed it, most of the flies had killed themselves and gotten stuck to the sides. Black mold appeared also for the first time. Oh boy I was freaked out. At that moment I was really happy that I've been making new cultures once a week, I had some bottles with larvae climbing to the sides and already some pupae too. I also had some _Trichorhina tomentosa_ and springtail cultures, so there was nothing to worry about. 

But I still got overly protective and may have overfed the frogs with _T. tomentosa_ and springtails. Or then this happy froggy is a female carrying lots of eggs.  

(Sorry for the bad picture, I didn't have time to focus right and the frog kept hopping away.)










Everything is back to normal now and I have lots of good FF cultures and it's time to go back to the regular feeding schedule.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I'll try to take some pictures after I've cleaned the tank walls. But most of the frogs have started to turn more green and red, especially the big, fat frog A. There's still some that look more blue than green, but I have a feeling that they will turn greener too. And they seem to be calling almost every day now. I think I heard a chirp from the nearby _P. vittatus_ tank too.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Oh wow! :shock: 

I just actually saw one calling and to my surprise it was one of the young ones. It's frog E. I am so proud of it now and I get to change my sig from 0.0.6 to 1.0.5!

Here's a picture of it taken just now:


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Congrats, Satu! This is a fun thread to subsribe to, with great pics. Keep up the updates.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thanks. This has been much more fun than I could anticipate when I got these frogs. At first I was so afraid that I won't be able to be a good mommy for these frogs, everything seemed so complicated and difficult. But it has gotten easier with time and now I am able to offer them the basics of the basic care. This constant calling makes me feel like I am doing something right and the frogs are happy. 

I still have a lot to learn and experience. All these new events are just amazing, it's a journey to a new world filled with exiting things. And it's a great thing that I don't have to do it alone, you all are there giving advice and sharing all this.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Well put. That's exactly how I felt when I first got frogs, and exactly how I see the DendroBoard community. Plus, since I can't have every frog I'd like to have (which would be pretty much _every_ frog  ), I get to experience other species vicariously through threads such as yours.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2006)

i have to agree great thread with great pics!

Satu im so happy that your having such luck. those are beautiful frogs and they look fat and healthy. from the pics i see and the posts you make id say you are being a *great* mommy to them!


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I think reading this forum is also a wee bit dangerous. Too many temptations. But well, these 11 frogs are now more than enough for me, even though it would be fun to get some eggs and tads in the near future. :wink: 

Thank you 2mnytnx for your kind words. 

I realised that I haven't shown a picture of their temporary tank. These pictures aren't great (the glass is almost opaque in some places because of the numerous scratches) and there's some reflections and stuff, but they do serve their purpose, which is showing what the tank looks like. I myself love the white swimming pool.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Wow, I'm rather surprised at this thread... for two reasons. First, that even tho my name was brought up, no one pointed this thread out to me (thus the late response). And second, why it took so long for E. anthonyi 'Santa Isabel' took so long to come up as the morph of this frog.

Sorry to be a pain, but the coloration of these frogs in the original photos is pretty typical of juvenile SIs, tho the banding seemed to throw people off as most SIs this side of the pond tend to have thinner stripes due to the founding stock they came from. They don't have that name over in Europe as far as I know. The later frogs, especially the one with the evidently calling animal shows them developing red as they age - pretty typical coloration of an SI that isn't being given additional supplementation to get the very bright red body and yellow stripes. Unsupplemented animals tend towards a more wine red with white stripes, with variation including animals with wider stripes that cover the whole back (similar looking to highlands in pics) and more orange striped individuals. You need to remember that the "santa isabel" anthonyi are actually a complex of morphs rather than just one... the animals pictured are probably from the Rios Minas/Western SI anthonyi population where most of the US SI population is from the population closer to SI itself. There are a number of populations that are bright red with white to yellow stripes, and are often all tossed under the label of "Santa Isabel" or red anthnoyi even tho they are actually different populations.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you for your detailed post. The frog in the link does look really familiar. I am actually quite glad that you think that these are Santa Isabels. I fell in love with the species because of this thread with these strawberry cuties enjoying themselves. 

They are reddening up all the time, the stripes are still bluish green, but the red is getting brighter day by day. I've been giving them some Cyclopeeze with the vitamin dust, since I don't have any other products right now, but I am getting some of that Naturose if I can find it.

This is a picture I took today, the flash washed out the stripe colours, but you can see that it's brightening up.










Oh, and it's the frog B:









I don't think I've told what they are eating now. Their diet consists of _D. melanogaster_, _D. hydei_, cowpea weevils (_Callosobruchus maculatus_), white woodlice (_Trichorhina tomentosa_) and springtails. It was hysterical to watch their first encounter with the cowpea weevils, I still giggle when I think about it. They were already used to larger feeders, like _T. tomentosa_, so they started eating straight away and got nice mouthfulls. But then they realised that the creatures were a bit crunchier than all the others they've eaten and poor things jumped around a bit freaked out and spit the weevils out of their mouths. I did feel sorry for them, but I still laughed hard nearly crying.  It didn't take long for them to get used to the weevils though.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

So, 3 of the frogs are now a bit over 8 months old and 3 are a bit over 5 months old (one of them being the definite male). I hear calling nearly every day. And one of the older frogs, the biggest and boldest one of the bunch, frog A, looks like it has eaten a banjo, it doesn't look unhealthy or anything. Either it's a really fat frog or a female with eggs (is that possible or is 8 months still too young?).

All the others look normal and eat just as much as the frog A (all really active eaters, the FFs never stand a chance). I'm feeding them once a day or every other day depending on how much I'm feeding at a time, once a month they spend the weekend alone and won't be fed for 3 days (but then I always offer them a big banquet before I leave, so the feeder creatures will last at least for couple of days).

So, should I be waiting for eggs in near future (and maybe mist more to encourage such behaviour) or should I just feed them less? I'll take a new picture of the frog A tomorrow so you'll see what I'm talking about. If I'd have to guess, I'd say that it's a female, the pictures I've seen of females with eggs look similar to my froggie.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Great thread! I hope to someday have some of these beauties.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I'm glad that you like this thread. I certainly love these frogs, they are just so amazingly bold. Tiny creatures with huge egoes and appetites.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

The boys have been really horny lately and waking me up nearly every morning:









And we have eggs!

I just checked the tank and saw a male sitting on a plant leaf guarding eggs. It's amazing. Feels so great. The father is the frog E (I think, I can't get a really good look at the head pattern) and mother seems to be frog A. I hope everything goes fine. 

I didn't get a good picture, I'd have to go much closer and harass the frog to be able to do that and I think that wouldn't be wise:


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

That is a great pic of the male calling. Just love it!


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

nice!!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Excellent shots of the frogs and congrats on the eggs.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you. 

I'm so happy that I don't even mind the nearly continuous calling. Well, to be honest, sometimes it almost bugs me (just now the male is calling 5-6 times a minute).

Edit (2.2. 21:31): The eggs just now. Looking really bad or just normal?










Well, KeroKero confirmed it in this thread that the eggs are no good. Looks like young mommy and daddy didn't succeed in their first time at age 7 and 10 months, but I have a feeling that they will try again soon and I bet they will succeed in no time. I hope I'm ready by then. This time came as a total surprise.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Sorry to hear about the eggs! They will get it right soon I am sure!


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

They do seem to be continuing their normal life again, I just hope they don't try again too soon and tire themselves out too much. The male was quiet for a day after I took out the eggs, but it started again, I'm glad, because the silence made me worry, it hasn't happened for a while and I've gotten used to their chirping. 

I've been thinking, should I continue calling these _E. tricolor_, since they were sold to me as such, or would it be better to start calling them _E. anthonyi_ or _E. anthonyi_ SI? Can I call them that because they look like those even though I don't know of the lines origin?

Oh, and what about frog F? It's now a bit over 7 months old. What should I do with him, does he belong with the others or should I separate him because he doesn't look just the same as others? He is healthy and all, acting normal and around the same size as the other males and he's the third in the pecking order (I think there's three males, this one is still a bit unsure, but it behaves like the other two). The stripes are still a bit more greenish looking, the base color is wee bit darker hued and the markings on the legs are more random and not as clear dots and stripes as the others have. 

Should I be favoring the ones who look just the same or can I just let them all be like that without having to worry. Does he look close enough like the others?

Here's him (bottom right) at 3 months old, here's him today:


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

I wouldn't seperate it just because of markings.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

And now for my long awaited (or is it winded?) reply! (sometimes I just crack myself up... I think I need more sleep)

This is basically just a case of variation. You know its related to the other frogs, you know its an SI, but it doesn't look like a classic one... and all to commonly today, that's a good enough reason for that frog to be excluded from breeding  I had one of my Table Mountain/Tafelburg tinc morph out with WAY less markings than the others, and a friend who shall remain nameless () wondered if I was absolutely sure that frog was what I thought it was... not only did I have this frog's clutch mates, but they were F2s! The parents were F1s from the same breeder who had wild caught parents from a known importation from the wild... you rarely get frogs with such clear lineage these days. Oh, yes, I was sure... its just a little variation, and that's a GOOD thing!

Sadly becoming a thing of the past... more sibling frogs are bred to sibling frogs and bred to be the "typical" of the morph... I've found that the closer to the WCs you get, the more variation you see... in theory well bred (genetically diverse) animals would have the same variations. The "Taffies" as I call them are destined for breeding with an unrelated line from the same importation for this very reason.

Back to the anthonyi... or was it tricolor? lol, I'll address that question in a bit. At least in the American population (the EU population likely has a different foundation stock but from generally the same population) there is a "typical" SI tricolor... and a few variations... there is some variation in stripe color (may partially be due to diet in some cases - stripes usually white to yellow with the center stripe being more orange), stripe width (some animals have wider stripes overall and tend to have those markings solidly color the legs and the center stripe the same color as the others...10% or less of the population), or an interesting variation I'd only see pictures of until a recent effort to out cross my animals resulted in me getting this male:










This is a trait I know occurs in the original founding animals (I was told about 1 in 100) and I actually thought had been bred out of a majority of the SIs in the hobby with the exception of those very close to the WCs genetically (like this male). I fully intend to get variation back into my SIs 

As for the name... it's really up to you I guess. In some circles they are still called E. tricolor, but all the populations/morphs in the hobby with the exception of Morasphunga and Highland are actually E. anthonyi. I know Shultz published a paper resurrecting the species, and a paper by Coloma was in press that said the same thing, and designated what was what. We were lucky enough to have Coloma speak at a frog show just after he had submitted his paper for review, and he confirmed which morphs we had on this side of the pond where what. After finally having some highland tricolors and all the information I've gathered about the two species over the years, I'm inclined to agree... the true tricolors are much trickier frogs to breed, and the call, while similar, is different to me.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you so much for your reply. 

I shall start calling these _E. anthonyi_ 'Santa Isabel'. 

I like what you are saying and I fully agree, keeping some diversity in the gene pool is a good thing if that was naturally there in the first place. And if you too think that the frog F looks like it's just an oddball SI and not some other form that's been accidentally mixed with these, then I am more than happy to keep the cute little thing with it's siblings. They should be siblings, but since they are bought from a German breeder who doesn't seem to be that easily contacted, I can't get any more information. And to me they do look enough alike not to be from different forms (the stripes are the same width, the dot on the nose is the same). But since I'm a newbie, it's good to hear opinions from experienced ones so I don't do anything stupid just because I don't know any better.

I love how that frog in the picture looks like, it's like frosted, really pretty. It would be boring if every frog would look exactly the same. 

Edit: I caught frog F and B hanging out together again (they seem to be doing that once in a while). F was calling shortly, so it's a male. B looks and acts like a female. I continued observing the frogs and C is the third male. I have no idea if frog D is a male or female, it usually stays somewhere where I can't see it and shows up only when it's time to eat. So I would say 2 females, 3 males and a shy one.

I feel a bit stupid now. I just realized that frog D has the same pattern on it's legs as F has, but otherwise it has same colouring as the other four "normal" looking. 

Here's the C and F males together (F is the second in command, btw, not third, he kept bossing C around):










And this is a crappy picture of F and B together (the colours are all wrong and too dark:


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Yesterday I decided to move the tank closer to my bed/computer area so I can watch the frogs while I am by the computer or being lazy and laying in my bed. Then I started thinking, the frogs matured a bit faster than I thought and they have been in a small terrarium (they haven't been acting weird or anything though). I figured that they might appreciate some more room now when they want some privacy too when mating and caring for the eggs. 

I caught the frogs almost causing myself a heart attack while doing that. I was a bit clumsy and the female A managed to escape from the plastic cup I was using to transport her. My heart didn't stop and I caught the frog soon and she didn't seem to be injured in any way, but I'm still a bit mad at myself for being so clumsy. 

I cleaned up a 84 liter tank (22 gallons), measurements 60 x 35 x 40 cm (23.6 x 13.8 x 15.7 inches), added a layer of leca balls and on top of that a thick layer of spaghnum and then put the plants and pond in (I noticed some old, already molding eggs, probably laid sometime during last week, on a brom after I've already put the frogs in, dunno how I can remove them without stressing the frogs again, might be best to remove the whole leaf). I also made some suction cup + film canister combinations and attached those the the back and sides of the tank glasses. 

Yesterday the frogs were a bit shy at first, but this morning the males were calling as loud as they could, couple of males and the female A were checking out the film canisters and lo and behold, there's eggs in one of the film canisters already. But there's no-one guarding them. 

Female A seems to be really interested in a film canister attached to the right side of the back wall, she's been climbing there and then jumping off after a while, now she is somewhere else and the male E is sitting on top of that film canister. Might be that they are planning something. 

Male F is sitting on a film canister attached to the left side of the back wall, sometimes calling, but doing nothing else. Possible female, frog B, has been sitting on a leaf that's under the frog F's position. Do frogs pair up, or is this just a coincidence?

The new terrarium, nothing fancy, just plants, pond and frogs (female A sitting on a film canister):









The eggs on the film canister attached to the left side wall (possible female B in the background):


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Satu, you've got some OUTSTANDING frogs!!! We only know about them because you've got OUTSTANDING pictures!!! :shock: 

I'm glad they're breeding for you.


Thanks for sharing them with us.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Frogs do pair up, females with their preferred males, so it may not be coincidence that you see the two of them together... and hopefully your girls will prefer different boys, which will avoid issues. Nice tank, good to see how much they like it already


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Anoleo2: Oh, thank you. I'm glad you like them. 

KeroKero: Thanks. I hope the girls will play nice in the future too.

I'm really glad to see that the frogs like the film canisters, they seem to be really fond of them (well, they are the highest calling spots and are handy when it comes to breeding). 

Moving the frogs worried me a bit, because I wouldn't want to stress them at all. But looks like it went well and now they have nearly twice as much room as before. I'll be building their viv some time in the spring when the weather permits it, so now they can stay in this tank without being bothered for several months.

The frogs surprised me again, no new eggs (at least I can't spot any), but there's male E guarding the eggs in the film canister. I wish I'd seen them in the act yesterday so I could tell who did it. A hasn't been near that area at all, she prefers the right side of the tank, B has been in that area, but I thought she liked F and not E. E is the only male I've seen near that particular film canister. 

B looks a bit thinner though compared to the picture taken 5 days ago:









Here's E guarding the eggs:









2 eggs are white and others look fine (hard to tell exactly, the male is in the way). I really don't want to pull eggs, but if two of them are bad, shouldn't they take the rest of the eggs with them to their death? Could I take a scalpel or something and try to remove those two eggs if the male happens to go away for a while or would it just scare the male away permanently?

I hope third time is the charm.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Satu,

After my own mistaken impulse to rescue every anthonyii egg I could find and pulling multiple clutches, I've found that letting nature take its course seems to be the best for these frogs. The tadpoles that the males carry and deposit are more robust and I saw a definite drop in SLS once I started using that approach.

It can be very frustrating watching egg clutches go bad but in times the parents will get things right. Once the tadpoles are deposited in the water, you can let them mature in the parental viv if the water feature is large enough. Since mine is just a small water dish, I leave them in the viv for ~ 1 week with a couple of light feedings and then remove them. I have seen the best success using communal rearing of 6-8 tadpoles in 1 gallon (3.7 liter) of water containing Indian Almond leaves (or other sources of tannins) and no (zero) water changes.

Corey (KeroKero) has posted extensively on best foods for these characters. I've actually found that they relish a bit of algae based foods but I keep that as a minor component of their diet.

Good luck!

Bill


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thank you for the encouragement! I feel so bad for the poor frog, he is taking such a good care of the eggs, but he can't do anything about the two that are looking bad. But you are right, I should leave them be. 

And it would be hard to try to remove two eggs from the film canister without moving the canister and disturbing the male (who seems to have decided to guard these ones as well as he can). 

And thank you for the other tips too. I really need to start thinking about the upcoming tads, the frogs are bound to be succesful with the eggs sooner or later. 

The water/tad ratio seems to be about the same I was planning to do, there's a bit more room for the tads in my scenario, but I suppose it's fine that way. I'm glad to have some indian almond leaves (I kept and bred bettas some time ago and I was using those leaves a lot then), otherwise I would have had to use oak leaves and they just aren't as potent as ketapang is.

Edit: Oh, I've possible mixed frog C with frog D. Especially at times when I haven't seen the head pattern. I thought D had the same patterns as the weird F, but looks like it doesn't anymore. And D is definitely a male, I've seen him call and took a picture of him calling. Now I need to watch frog C a bit better and try to see if it calls too, because now I can't be sure if I've really identified it correctly. So:

Definitely a female: A

Possiby a female: B

Definitely a calling male: D, E, F

Maybe a male: C

And here's the frog D, now a bit over 10 months old (in this picture he is about 6 months old):


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Looks like you're ending up with a perfect ratio of males to females! That's exactly how I like to see it. With it that male heavy, you shouldn't have issues with your girls.

I know it's common practice to remove bad eggs, but I've noticed a couple things in my time working with these... a bad egg or two, with a healthy clutch, doesn't seem to matter. I've royally %@U() a clutch or two trying to get a bad egg out... and turned a perfectly healthy clutch just about to mush  Removing them from the rest is not easy... especially if they happen to be in the middle of a clutch of 20.

Basic deal is like Bill already mentioned... let nature take it's course and remove the tadpoles from the tank... just don't be stupid like me, and use some sort of removable pond for the tads to be deposited in... while I love the ponds in my tank, I get extremely frustrated trying to remove tads. Extremely. Then I had two people tell me how they were getting their tads out so easily... just putting in plastic food containers with water in the tank, and removing them when tads were deposited. Not as pretty, but a better way to stay sane. I'm planning on using it for my next anthonyi set up.

When you leave tads in the tank, like Bill mentioned, you tend to have healthier tads. I'm not sure why, maybe they get some secretion goodies when riding on dad's back or something, but the tads seem to be healthier when done that way. I had some loses and some tad issues when I pulled eggs, yet when I was lazy and pulled tads instead, I had more robust tads. I never had cases of SLS, but I kept my anthonyi differently than most back when I was breeding them a lot... in good healthy clutches a bad egg or a few will not make a difference... I've heard of egg clutches going bad due to infertile eggs, but I really have to question the health of the eggs involved... I've seen egg clutches from most of the dendrobatid groups kept in captivity with infertile eggs not removed, and the eggs had no problems, except in cases of a few groups of frogs that typically produced weak tads anyways... and usually pairs of the same frogs that produced robust eggs could have infertile eggs go bad in the clutch with no issue. A lot of different factors go into eggs being healthy or not. If one or two bad eggs makes the whole clutch go, I really have to question if the eggs would have done well anyways.

I find it entertaining that my Salvias complex anthonyi are totally ignoring the film canisters in their tank that are above ground level. More terrestrial than the SIs. In contrast, my SI male is hanging out on his suction cup film canister like its his hot new car... silly bugger.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

First of all, here's a better picture of the tank:










Pothos, some more Pothos (I can't wait to get a relatively large viv where I can put a cutting of my huge pothos), some broms, Prayer Plant, Creeping Fig, English Ivy, _Peperomia prostrata_, _Microsorum steerei_, _Bulbophyllum comberi_, "Mini Moss" and in the pond Riccia and "Süßwassertang". 

The pond is a wee bit small, but I think it's rather handy, easy to remove. It's only 3/4 inches deep, but I've been thinking if I could replace it with 1.5-2 inches deep one so there would be more room for tads in the future, or would it then be too deep? Maybe I could place some small pebbles or something to the bottom of the pond so the male wouldn't have to go to deeper water when it's depositing the tads.

I will replace the white film canisters with black ones (as soon as I get some more of them) since the frogs aren't interested in them at all.

The eggs don't look that good, but to my surprise the bad looking eggs darkened a bit after I wrote my last post, now they all look the same. Dark upperside, white underside, some white appearing in the middle of the dark part. E has been guarding them once in a while, but most of the time it does other things and jumps around the tank, so the eggs are more than likely goners this time too. 

It's surprisingly difficult to let them do their things on their own and not try to help them with the eggs. The male is just doing so much work for the eggs and still doesn't succeed. Poor thing. 

But well, maybe next time. 

KeroKero: Thank you for you great post (once again), it's so great to read about your experiences, it's really helpful and also gives me some hope. Maybe this will start to work soon. The frogs are trying their best, so I believe they will be successful soon enough. 

Oh, I wish I had some Salvias too, they are really pretty (well, all the darts are, but I have stronger feeling towards Epips and Phyllobates, it seems). But I suppose I'll have my hands full with these two species in the future, might not be room for a third one.

This change of terrarium might be a bit stressful for the frogs themselves (needing to set up the pecking order once more etc.), but it sure is interesting to watch how the males compete for the calling spots. D and F both want the same place and they have been calling like crazy lately, today they were wrestling a bit too. Nothing really serious looking, I suppose it's just healthy competition. And there should be enough room for all of them. 

Your hot new car comparison cracks me up. My males seem to think of the film canisters as cars too. They were so excited about them when they saw the canisters for the first time and now they look really proud when they call from them. I just love these frogs, they are so cute and funny.


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

im jealous of those frogs.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Yeah, me too!

Great thread. This is the next species I hope to keep.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2007)

I have to agree with Corey and Bill...and add that even when you let 'nature take it's course' you're still going to end up with more tads than you know what to do with. These guys just don't stop! I have a 2.1 trio and every time I turn around it seems one of the males is lugging another clutch of tads down to the water...


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I sure hope the frogs will continue liking what I am offering to them as housing and food. 

And I suppose it's the same with frogs as it with aquarium fish, the first time they breed successfully is amazing, but after a while you get used to it and don't see it as anything special. The newbies in the other hand get all excited about their first eggs. I'm sure I will be eventually in trouble with all the tads, but right now I am a newbie who just can't wait to see tadpoles swimming around. 

It's amazing how often they seem to breed. How in earth are the females able to produce that much eggs?

Oh, and female A is a feisty one. She has taken the front right side of the terrarium as her own territory and she chases away all the boys who come to her area. The boys are really interested in her, but seems like she doesn't like company now when male E is guarding eggs. 

I think male F was climbing the front glass today and I managed to snap one picture before he jumped away. It's not perfect, but nice enough (1200x800 and 1024x768 versions):


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

One note about how often they breed... they can breed a lot, and this isn't exactly a good thing...larger clutch sizes are related to animals that produce fewer clutches over the length of the year... most dendros with small clutch sizes breed most of the year, epis, with larger clutches, produce significantly less over the year, and are more seasonal, taking a break... then you've got the once a year types that lay thousands in one go.... I'm convinced they aren't mean to do it as much as they sometimes do in captivity. While you don't see if as often in much of the other dendrobatids, I think over breeding is more obvious in epipedobates, mainly due to the larger clutch sizes. Breeding season may be too long, problems with not feeding them the best diet, large egg masses to begin with,. and pulling eggs creating a predator response (breed as soon as possible to replace the eggs taken, they don't understand that the eggs survived). Leaving the eggs with the parents helps the eggs in a few different ways... not just parents not over breeding and using up all their nutrients (which can result in SLS froglets, small/weak tadpoles, dying eggs) but the tadpole health and vigor seems to be better when allows to be transported by the parents to a water source. In true E. tricolor, such as moraspunga, it seems that keeping the eggs with the parents might be essential to egg health.

Looking back, I realize I've had very little issue with this myself... I let my adults care for all the eggs, so they bred less often, and I had a completely different diet (at the time my animals were fed pinheads with treats of aphids and termites, and I didn't culture fruit flies at all), and I had definite seasonal changes (which resulted with me having tads up to my ears part of the year, and nothing for the other part of the year). I have to wonder if some of the issues I face now have to do with foods, and how many problems people seem to have with them are related to breeding too often on a diet that may not be ideal to them, and lacking season. I think something as simple as picking up another feeder in the diet and letting the parents handle the eggs might significantly improve the health of the generation being produced now.

Food wise, I'm trying to get FFs out of the diet of my frogs as much as possible... I'm breeding crickets again, and starting to work with a larger variety of alternative feeders (RFBs, lesser mealies, feeder isopds, roaches, shorelinite beetles, and collecting termites when it gets warm). The more things added to the diet, the less FFs fed to them, and the better the diet is for them anyways. I'm cutting FFs out of my mantellas' diet completely, and trying to do the same for the rest of my frogs for the most part.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I've been worrying about the male, guarding eggs all the time, doing lots of work and getting nothing in return. He is still guarding the eggs once in a while, but the eggs are clearly bad. Hopefully he does continue it for a while before getting another batch with a female. The female B was sitting on top of a film canister this evening looking like a banjo again, so I have a feeling that there will be eggs soon. 

I've been trying to feed them well now, so they are able to handle this all. But it does make me worry, producing eggs must take a lot from females and guarding the eggs from the male. And what you said does confirm my worry. 

I would guess that they do know their limits, but in the other hand, all living organisms seem to go into breeding frenzy when they are close to dying or they think that they are, in attempt to reproduce before they die so their genes will carry on. 

I tried keeping crickets last fall, oh boy did they drive me crazy even though I had the silent type which should be a bit more quiet than regular ones. And they managed to lay eggs somewhere in their container without me noticing and the newly hatched pinheads escaped and roamed around my room. Maybe I'll give it another try later. But for now the frogs are getting _D. melanogaster_, _D. hydei_, springtails, tropical white woodlice and occasional cowpea weevils (they don't like them as much as they like the other food, if I offer them too often, the frogs will just ignore most of them). I tried keeping firebrats, but they didn't like it here for some reason, the temperature was a wee bit low, I think. 

I could add lesser waxmoths to the variety. There's also milkweed bugs in springhalen.dk-website from where I've gotten most of my feeders in the beginning.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Oh, look, they ship to the US! Bet that would be fun to get thru customs... explaining why I want some of these bugs... I bet most are pest species they wouldn't allow  I'd love to try some of those species...

Leaving the eggs in the tank will take care of the majority of the food problem. Supplemented with their current diet, and allowed to produce on their schedule, they should be fine. When the male ignores the eggs and they have really started to fall apart, you should easily be able to clean out the film canister by using a hand mister... good eggs stay stuck even with strong water flow, bad eggs will have degraded enough that they will come out in bits and pieces. By not pulling eggs, you're basically reducing the problems associating by using too much resources way, way down, so they are basically next to nothing to worry about. 

I had a number of frogs who liked waxworms, a bit of a pain to get out of the media, but very good for weight gain. Also funny to watch bicolor chase and eat the moths! Buffalo worms are another food item I'm going to play with when the weather warms up... similar to RFB in nutrition (both being small beetle larvae) but are more active, and thus more attractive. RFBs seem easier to culture tho... I have yet to find a good "how to culture" guide for these guys. The isopods are also bugs I'm hoping will make nice epipedobates snacks. Oddly enough, even tho the milkweed bug is a US bug, I don't hear of people here culturing them for food, so I really don't know...


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

My life is going to get really interesting soon. I am going to get couple African Mantis (_Sphodromantis centralis_) oothecas. If I get them to hatch, I will definitely try to feed some to my frogs and see if frogs like them. 

I've wanted to get some mantids for a while, but now I am even more excited. I will be able to give the mantids the same food I am giving to my darts, also maybe feed them lesser waxmoth adults which I don't need for any other purpose if my frogs won't like them, I will have an amazing insect species to observe and photograph and as a bonus, if my frogs like them, I can feed extra offspring to my frogs. 

Yeah, getting something like that through customs might be a wee bit difficult. Flemming is a really nice person, is eager to help and give advice and the quality of those cultures is great, they are filled with yummy feeders. 

E is still checking the eggs, but not as regularly as it did before. I really hope the daddy won't be E when there will be new eggs, I think he deserves a break.


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## Springhalen (Dec 30, 2005)

Hi guys
Flemming Andersen from Springhalen (= the springtail) here, Satu thanks for all the kind words.
_Tricolors_ and _leucomelas_ tend to be a froggers first frogs and last frogs, in between he/she will fool around with thumbnails and _Oophaga_, but in the end will come back to the pure joy of these entertaining and prolific little critters.
Actually sending critters to the US hasn't been a problem so far, main problem is shipping costs when the package exceeds 2 kg. 
I guess the only problem would be if I tried to send something like locusts... Or if I could get my hands on some mediterranean fruitflies and start breeding them ;-)
I lived and worked three years in the US (Plymouth Meeting, PA), bred frogs with Gary Chamberlain and had lots of fun with Michael Shrom and that continously growing kid Justin Yeager (has he stopped growing?)
And yes I need to update my English language section. BTW I am always looking for new feeders. I gave up on the shorelinite beetles after they started appearing in the kitchen. Would like some D. buzzatii and the large golden hydei U guys breed. 
All the best
Flemming


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Hello Flemming! Nice to see you posting in my thread. I got the feeder package yesterday (Thursday), and I'll email you about it tomorrow when I'm awake. Now I'm just sleeptyping because I'm so excited about the new eggs I spotted tonight. 

I don't know who the mommy is, might be frog B, since she has been jumping around and near the film canisters and males lately and looked a bit thinner around last Friday. The daddy is frog D. 

I posted these pictures in a thread I startedin Breeding, Eggs & Tadpoles and asked about their and the last batches developement, but I think it would be a good idea to show them in this thread too so the whole progress will be documented under this thread.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Wow, congrats. You frogs look better and better everytime I peek in on this thread.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thanks. They have colored up nicely. 

Looks like the other active male, frog E, got it right too, at least the eggs I spotted today from another film canisters seem to be fertilized, except one that's on the side of the canister (must be an agile female). 6-7 of the 8 eggs look fertilized. 

(You can see the other male inside the film canister in the background)









There's only one male (of the three calling ones I certainly have) left who hasn't spawned yet even once. There's a third film canister left, so maybe he gives it a try soon too. 

Here's him pondering about his lacking female seducing skills:









And here's a link to the picture where I am updating the egg development of the batch male D is guarding.


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Jan 1, 2007)

Those are some hot frogs.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

The tadpoles are developing fast and looking like tadpoles already, the external gills are shrinking and the male is really protective over them. It's starting to be really difficult to take pictures without the male jumping in front of the eggs and staying there and staring at the camera.  











"Handsome, caring and athletic male searching for a companion (redhead, preferably female, but will also consider males or pairs (the more the merrier))."


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## the_noobinator (Jan 14, 2007)

i love the coloring of these frogs.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

The colors are really cute. 

Just to make it easier for someone who might be interested in seeing all the pictures and reading all the news about these froggies and their lives, I have posted some egg pictures (with dates and other information) in this thread: 
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25379

And here's couple more:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25700

Yesterday male D, a happy dad of 11 tads released his cute little offspring to the pond. 4 eggs from male E:s last attempt are developing and will hatch some time around next week if everything goes fine. Exciting times, the tadpoles are just too cute and remind me of Corydoras fry. They are already eating and pooping and I am just sitting next to their little home and staring at them. I think I need to go to bed, it's already 3 AM, but it's just hard for me to turn off the lights and stop admiring the little cuties.


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## the_noobinator (Jan 14, 2007)

that does look similar to cory cat fry!
when he releases them into the pond, do you then keep them in the parent's viv the whole time? i know virtually nothing about breeding.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

I think there's some people who keep the tadpoles in the viv pond the whole time if there's enough water volume. But I think most of the people do remove the tads from the viv after a while and raise them in a separate tank (easier to monitor the tads and when they start climbing out of the water, they are easy to place to their own vivs). 

I already took mine out and moved all the pond water (with all the yummy dirt), leaves, plants and dead FF's to a plastic container and added some more water. They have now about 8 and half decilitres of water. After a week or so I will add some more water. The tads are really fun to watch, they are already eating a lot.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

After I removed the tads from the pond, I redecorated a bit and the pond looks like this now:










Male E and female A were at it again today (I accidentally disturbed them while they were enjoying themselves, I hope they did manage do finish without any problems) and the male is guarding eggs now. I'm not actually sure whether I wish them to be fertile or not. It would be nice to see those two to producing a good batch too (the last one of the male E was 8 eggs and 4 of them fertile), but if they keep up this egg laying rhythm for long and the eggs are viable... I will surely be in trouble. 

The tads are growing fast and eating more and more of the tadpole bites I've offered them. I'll try some other foods when I transport them to a large container after they've grown a bit.


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## the_noobinator (Jan 14, 2007)

i'll take some of those froglets if they keep it up :wink:


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

The tads are really growing fast, it's amazing how they have at least tripled their size now.


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

Huge congrats, and awesome pics!


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

awsome frogs


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thanks. 

Male F finally got some, or uhm, is guarding eggs. He was actually quite busy with his girl, they produced two sets within a few days, first one didn't go that well, there's only one egg developing and the male stopped guarding it just lately. The second one is a smaller batch, but there's 4 eggs developing of the 13 they managed to produce. 

So, I have three pairs, female A + male E, female B + male D and female C + male F. I just separated male E for a while from others, he has been guarding eggs non-stop for a while and has gotten a bit too thin so when he was inside a film canister with some eggs, I moved the canister and the frog to a nice temporary terrarium with a pond and some indian almond leaves on top of a spaghnum layer. I intend to feed him well for a week or two and then transport him back with his friends. I hope not having time to eat is his only problem.

The tads are growing nicely, I should take some photos soon.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Here's one of the tads today, it's about 3 centimetres now.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Second generation is soon ready to climb to land (well, they still need some time to grow their back legs and pop their front legs, but still):

6 weeks and 6 days:


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

The second generation today:


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Here's some of the froglets today, the colors are a bit off, but you can guess the right coloration of the photos:


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## Guest (May 22, 2007)

*Beautiful froglets! Glad most of them are thriving and healthy!*


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Thanks. I'm really glad too, it's so great to be able to watch their life from the beginning and watch the eggs turning to tads and tads morphing to froglets and now the colors getting richer. There's this cool copper sheen on some of the youngsters as you can see from the second photo, the first photo is too dark, they aren't really that dark anymore. Here's a large photo of the froglet in the second photo with another one, I think the colors are close to the reality.

I promise to buy a small glass tank for the tads so I can take better photos without these annoying color problems (then I don't have to be good with Gimp either since there's no need to tamper with the colors ).


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

What is this male doing? It has a clutch on the leaf and the one that's now attached to his chin was laid separately few centimeters away from the rest of the eggs. So, is he transporting the egg closer to the others to make sure it gets more moisture or is this just some sort of accident?


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

Wow that is an amazing shot of a very rare activity! I imagine it is possible that it is moving it but rather odd.


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## TonyT (Feb 16, 2004)

Been a while since I had spungas, but from what I remember they have a red flashing in the "armpits". Not positive about these though. Very nice frogs none the less.

TonyT

Didn't realize this post was as long as it is. I way behind on the posting. LOL..... Anyway..............


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

Yeah, this is a long, long thread, over half a year long already. 

Thank you both.

The egg is gone and I can't see if it's attached back to the leaf or not. I wouldn't be surprised if it was, because this male is really, really good daddy. He is the best of the bunch. He was the last one to get some action, but he is the most reliable one.

Here's two of it's offspring, it will be interesting to see how the blonde one will look after it has popped it's legs, it really is blonde, not bloated (if there's extra fluid inside the tad's body it looks lighter colored, but this is not the case here). It's a healthy, active tad and it's been growing the same speed as it's siblings.


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

My frogs finally did it. The thing which got me interested in the species. It looks so hilarious. 










Oh, and the blonde one still hasn't developed legs. I suppose it will eventually die and I won't get to see how a blonde anthonyi would look like. It's siblings are already calling.


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## ForzaXmanX (Sep 18, 2007)

rain- said:


> My frogs finally did it. The thing which got me interested in the species. It looks so hilarious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hey thats sweet! mind if i ask what size tank those are in and how many are in it?


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## rain- (Jul 28, 2006)

There are three pairs in a 60x35x40 cm (23.62 x 13.78 x 15.75 inches) tank. They seem to be enjoying their surroundings, the males have their own territories and females are peaceful too. The quarrel a bit sometimes when it's feeding time (usually the females), but they behave way nicer than my vittatus frogs.


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