# Chrytrid out break in Canada?



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Anyone have any info on the Chytrid outbreak in Canada among the hobby?


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

We are still trying to sort things out on canadart.org

One on the main importers/distributors up here has yet to clarify where the frogs were from. I know one of my buddies (Lance on here) has had 3 frogs die on him within the first few weeks of receiving his order. In addition, several other people who got frogs from the same supplier have had their frogs perish within the first month. We are still waiting for clarification on everything though, as it is kinda confusing No one wants to point the finger and blame anyone until we get all the facts.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Much like this board's policy, we can't openly give vendor feedback on canadart. This has made things a little tricky - everyone wants to know the source of the outbreak, but we can't really discuss it without naming names. I know there are a lot of PM's being thrown around...


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

I already know who they are from, but wont be spilling the beans. Hopefully the vendor can make things right. All I can say is that the frogs were very thin, and in a comatose state when they arrived, and apparently have chytrid also. Obviously wild caught with no additional precautions taken.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

GRIMM said:


> I already know who they are from, but wont be spilling the beans. Hopefully the vendor can make things right. All I can say is that they frogs were very thin, and in a comatose state when they arrived, and apparently have chytrid also. Obviously wild caught with no additional precautions taken.


I'm aware of who Lance got his frogs from last month...but I have yet to hear confirmation that the other user from Ontario got his infected frogs from the same source.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

None of the frog's have been tested and this is getting out of control imo.

Outbreak? A half dozen frog's dead...


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## MPepper (Feb 29, 2004)

There is no outbreak. No tests have been run.

What do people expect to happen when fresh wild caught frogs are sold in some cases to very inexperienced keepers? From what I hear, some of the frogs were in such poor condition that they should not ever have been sold, and they came from an importer who IN MY OPINION does not have the experience necessary to properly care for, acclimate, house the quantity of wild caught frogs that were imported. A recipe for disaster from day one.

Did it somehow become acceptable in Canada for in some cases very inexperienced people to purchase wild caught animals, and when did people regardless of experience level begin to expect zero difficulties with freshly imported wild caught frogs?

I assure you all the Canadian hobby will survive into the new year.

best regards,
mark


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## Topete (Sep 27, 2009)

good to get some confirmation from Mark!, none the less i do not care how strict no feedback policies are, the hobby should be protected and if there are leads to possible cause then the people informed should always try to go out of their way to get others informed.... at least that is what i would do if i would know of a threat in hobby in my home town or country.... i guess it is now a waiting game..Hopefully everything is ok.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

frogfreak said:


> None of the frog's have been tested and this is getting out of control imo.


All it takes is one person to cry 'chytrid' and everybody is up in arms. 

Apparently, one of the affected parties took his frog (s) to a vet who informed him that it 'looked like chytrid' and had been seeing/treating other similar cases. Shortly after posting that info, I believe the user was threatened with legal action and he requested that all his posts and contact info be removed from the board - which it then was.

That is pretty much where it stands at this point...

EDIT to add that I'm not posting this info to keep stirring the pot on this. It's just that while Chytrid cannot be CONFIRMED at this point, it also can't be ruled out. Given that the frogs in question were WC and it is more than one person who has lost frogs, I think it is more than a simple husbandry or inexperience issue. I could be wrong and I hope I am. We'll see how it plays out.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

good to know is just a few frogs, from what was stated to me it sounded as though it was several hundred frogs in quite a few private collections.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Anyone have any info on the species or origin of the frogs in question? Just curious if Canada is also taking in a lot of the new Suriname imports. Some of the frogs I've seen coming into the U.S. are in pretty rough shape, unfortunately.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

stemcellular said:


> Anyone have any info on the species or origin of the frogs in question? Just curious if Canada is also taking in a lot of the new Suriname imports. Some of the frogs I've seen coming into the U.S. are in pretty rough shape, unfortunately.


The frogs I have heard most affected are Red Bastis.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

afterdark said:


> All it takes is one person to cry 'chytrid' and everybody is up in arms.


Hi Mike

Agreed, but are all of us Canuck's naive enough to think that the fungus isn't in any of our collection's? Yet, we trade, sell frog's and plant's like hockey card's.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

interesting... thanks for the info.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

frogfreak said:


> Hi Mike
> 
> Agreed, but are all of us Canuck's naive enough to think that the fungus isn't in any of our collection's? Yet, we trade, sell frog's and plant's like hockey card's.


If you look at TWI's assessment of the U.S. hobby, a very small percentage of folks that participated in the study had frogs that tested for chytrid.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

stemcellular said:


> If you look at TWI's assessment of the U.S. hobby, a very small percentage of folks that participated in the study had frogs that tested for chrytrid.


Granted it was a small number, but I still didn't like it. .7% I believe.

What if the infected collection(s) were from a breeder(s)? Same potential scenario we have going on now. Panic...

I would like to propose that we get together as Canadian hobbiest's, find a facility that will test as a group (with a discount) and get as many as we can to participate. I've been think about this a lot lately. Cost of a test for a breeding group or pair, let's say under $100. You can make that back by selling one or two froglet's. Expensive...nope. Peace of mind...yep.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

What is the current price for a Chytrid test? I thought I read about someone offering them for under $25.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Vermfly said:


> What is the current price for a Chytrid test? I thought I read about someone offering them for under $25.


Not sure yet Cliff. Still trying to find a facility that can do it here.

It won't be $25 in Canada. You couldn't get a fecal done for that.

How much is a box of beer in the US? Approaching $40 here.

Seriously, everything is more expensive here. This won't be any different.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Price depends on how many samples you send to the testing agency. The more tests, the lower the cost/test. 

Any particular reason you can't send them to the labs in the US? 

There are several labs you can potentially use.. Pisces is one, Zoologix is another. You should contact them to find out. 

Ed


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Ed said:


> Price depends on how many samples you send to the testing agency. The more tests, the lower the cost/test.
> 
> Any particular reason you can't send them to the labs in the US?
> 
> ...


That's why I would like to do it as a group. It should keep the cost's down. I'm waiting for response's to a few e-mails.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> Not sure yet Cliff. Still trying to find a facility that can do it here.
> 
> It won't be $25 in Canada. You couldn't get a fecal done for that.
> 
> ...


Wow, I can get fecals run by a local vet for $18. It is good to live in California. I read about a lab doing tests for Chytrid for $15/test. Here's the link to the discussion on the other forum. Chytrid testing for $15 - Dart Frog Forum on Husbandry and Habitat Information
I wouldn't usually post a link to another forum but this is important information.

Here's the post from MichelleSG who I believe is a forum member here as well.
I (and a few others here) went to NARBC Houston which was a great show for buyers, sucked something awful for the vendors. Turn out was crap. Anyway there was this lone booth that caught my eye (I am a science geek) with a guy manning it that looked very lonely. The booth was for a reference lab and I, of course, was nosey as all get about what they did and how they did it (did I mention I am a science geek? Yeah..). One othe the multitudes of tests he had listed in his banner was chytrid. I grilled him on it, he was quite knowledgeable, and then asked him how much. He said $15. I asked him again. He said $15. Seriously folks, that's way hella cheaper than anyone else I've gotten a quote on it. Both I and Scott (my minion at my lab and a plant biology major) proceeded to grill him for the next hour on his lab and his science. We're analytical chemists and consequently extremely uptight about lab practices. I think we made his day though, I seriously doubt he had any stimulation conversation from anyone else. There was nothing for sale on his table so it was like he was sitting in the dark, poor thing.
Regardless he passed our standards for being able to hold a conversation with geek speak and creativity when it came to working out complex problems within testing. I give them the thumbs up for testing my stuff (I'm getting there, still have to mail it off) and ease of submitting a sample (important for those non-science geeks). 
Their info is:
[email protected]. (it got cut off down below, sorry it's an iPad dysfunction)
Research Associates Laboratory
14556 Midway Rd
Dallas, TX 75244
> 972-960-2221
> @aol.com
Www.vetdna.com[/INDENT]​


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

^^^Thank's Cliff!!!


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Here is a comment not mentioned in this post, is the seller telling the buyers the frogs are W/C?
Instead of suggesting that beginner froggers are buying "known" W/C?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

A poster named miked purchased a WC basti recently. It died and took some of his other frogs with it. He said his other frogs, which came in contact with the basti, were positive for chytrid (he discarded the basti without testing it). He didn't mention where he is located. 

He posted on these threads:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/61283-3-pdfs-dead-3-days.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/31507-leuc-chytrid-7.html


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## GeorgiaB (Apr 23, 2009)

If we can find a decent price then i would be interested in testing my frogs, and im sure there would be at least one other person out here on the west coast  ... 

number one priority should be ensuring the health of our frogs and those of the native species in our local environment (ie preventing the spread of chytrid) 

On another note miked said that his vet never got a test done but just gave the diagnosis based on limited experiences (one other case with a RETF). The likelihood is that there are other factors involved and this by no means indicates that there is a chytrid outbreak in canada. miked also stated (in the post previously indicated by frogface...3 pdfs dead in 3 days) the tests done through a website called savethefrog.com which doesnt seem to exist. ??? I think there are many variables at work in this situation.

This whole situation is unfortunate and its sad to have froggers with these bad experiences. I wish everyone the best and hope everyone has healthy happy frogs 

All the best and happy holidays.
Georgia


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

frogface said:


> A poster named miked purchased a WC basti recently. It died and took some of his other frogs with it. He said his other frogs, which came in contact with the basti, were positive for chytrid (he discarded the basti without testing it). He didn't mention where he is located.


Unfortunate, but that's what happens when people ignore proper quarantine procedures.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

GeorgiaB said:


> miked also stated (in the post previously indicated by frogface...3 pdfs dead in 3 days) the tests done through a website called savethefrog.com which doesnt seem to exist. ??? I think there are many variables at work in this situation.
> Georgia


Because the website is actually called - SAVE THE FROGS!


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

hexentanz said:


> Because the website is actually called - SAVE THE FROGS!


Why are we publisizing this guy again???? He's out to destroy our passion!!


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Why are we publisizing this guy again???? He's out to destroy our passion!!



because it's directly relevant to the discussion?


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

IMO, this is kinda out of hand... one person had like 3 frogs die, probably from improper husbandry, or a parasite(not including chytrid). It could've even been from plants used, and it was a coincidence that they all died around the same time... as said above, miked said that his vet visually checked for "chytrid", having only looked at a RETF before. I'm 100% positive you can't just "see" chytrid. there were no tests done, so nobody knows for sure... I'm not saying that it wasn't chytrid, it could've been. but I think we are stressing over this WAAAAAAYYYYY too much... all because one person said "chytrid".


just my 2 cents.


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## GeorgiaB (Apr 23, 2009)

Haha, everytime i tried to type it in a clorox bleach page popped up. Ya im not sure about this whole situation, there are too many factors and not enough legitimate data.


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## dralucas (Feb 5, 2007)

hi,

i'm one of the other guy that received frogs from this seller and lost all 3 bastis in the first month. I'm not a beginer but not a pro. The thing is that i traded those frogs, wich i was thinking were c.b. and healty. The seller told me that he was selling them for 125 canadian ... So i traded for that value assuming that for that price they were c.b (My error)

They were imported. After talking with other ppl that purchased bastis from the same guy, they said to me that they paid 60 cause they were imported, so i guess i've been a little tricked there.

I think it might be why things went wrong, as i didn't expect to receive prob w.c animal as i only want c.b animals, and it seems like the vendor hold some important info on the frogs.


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## GeorgiaB (Apr 23, 2009)

Thats too bad especially since many people would know to treat wc slightly differently... it sucks to lose some great frogs, especially because of miss-information.

Did any of your other frogs get sick?
I hope the seller works things out with you!

Best wishes,
Georgia


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## dralucas (Feb 5, 2007)

for now all my other frogs looks fine.


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## GeorgiaB (Apr 23, 2009)

Good  Glenn told me hes currently working on trying to find a lab that is willing to test for chytrid at a reasonable price so hopefully he will be successful. That way, in the future, if this happens we can accurately diagnose it as chytrid or not.

Georgia


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I think Chytrid becomes a concern when multiple species are kept(and keeping reps and amphibs of many diff species closely together in seperate display tanks). I think most people would agree that our frogs cost too much in both $ and time/love to not make sure the materials used are "clean" and suitable for use. I think it is the hobbiest's responsibility to make sure adequate space between enclosures is provided and also to not "hop" materials from tank to tank. This would be the best advice I could give in avoiding a chytrid outbreak within personal collections...

JBear


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

quarantine + preventive lamisil treatment works fine for me
i ve had a few WC and i would say i might have lost a reinwardtii because of the stress from the treatment but then again, i could even call that case a failed rescue because of the state the frog was when i got it

i also got frogs in october prolly from that same guy everyone is blatantly speaking of, and funny thing is i havent had the time to treat them yet, so they re still in quarantine but im impressed how healthy and fat they are
i beleive i got 3 frogs of prolly the same batch in september(from another person) and lost one after only a week, the 2 remaining looks much weaker than the 2 from october, but they re much smaller too
these frogs werent import tho

like said, i dont fear for any outbreak and correct me if im wrong, but proper quanrantine along with preventive lamisil treatment can pretty much 99% protect you from chytrid
dont get me wrong, i know its a LOT of job....


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## Jeff (May 21, 2009)

Ed said:


> Price depends on how many samples you send to the testing agency. The more tests, the lower the cost/test.


Additionally, you can reduced cost by batching samples.

For example, if your collection is 20 frogs housed in ten tanks on two shelves, then take one sample per tank and batch them into two groups of five.

Two (batched) samples with shipping could cost as little as $60 (USD, sent to a US lab). 

Practically speaking, many folks would treat their entire collection if they had one animal return a chytrid-positive PCR result, so the loss of resolution due to batching may have no implication for management of the collection.


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