# Plant cuttings from frog tanks?



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Ok, I know plant cuttings from a frog tank are generally frowned upon for usage in other frog tanks and are generally tossed, but I want to know why, and what proceedures can be taken to keep these problems from being transfered from one tank to another if cuttings were to be used (like one person trading cuttings to another person). If a proper procedure was established and followed, this shouldn't be a problem right?

External badies generally should be able to be removed from the plant via a good rinse or scrub. What is a good way to clean these guys? A plant from a frog tank shouldn't have much internal issues (like a plant from home depot might want to be grown out a little bit before being put in a tank to allow possibly harmful chemicals to "grow out" of the plant so I'm told).


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

I'm sure you could put most plants in a mild bleach bath (19:1) and get rid of any parasites etc.

Luke


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2005)

I've always heard of people rinsing/mild bleaching rinsing again plant cuttings for use in other vivariums. If you're still paranoid about it you could let them grow out for a few months in a green house or something simlilar.

-Tad


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

For aquarium plants, and now for vivarium plants, I do a 10 minute soak in 9:1 water:chlorox. Some plants can’t take this, liverwort for example, so you may want to use small cuttings at first. I’ve had ferns and begonias come through this treatment fine. I’ve also heard of people doing this with broms.


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

Bleach is a pretty standard way of surface sterilizing plant parts for use in tissue culture propagation. Not sure what ratio to use (1:10 is probably ok, as is 1:5).

Some plants will be more sensitive than others. I don't think ferns would like bleach, although I'm not a fern person. But since you are using cuttings, you can afford to experiment a bit.

The best solution is to establish your cool plants as stock plants _outside_ of a tank, and put cuttings in the tank. *grin* Yes, I know that is easy for me to say, I have a huge greenhouse. But most of those plants would do well on a windowsill. Or set up a terrarium without frogs to grow some of the more tender plants?


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

I myself have used some cutting for my tanks, just like the rest of us. Every time i get a cutting i will place it in a small cup filled with water and generally leave it for 9 or 10 hours.......while water drips on it..... so far so good. No chemicals added nothing, just a good old fashion rinse.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I would recommend the bleach bath as some parasites can readily survive a simple rinse (including many hours) such as some of the lungworms (http://www.newrhabdias.kiev.ua/) as they can have a free living form as well as a parasitic form. It will also not remove chytrid....
This is why even establishing the cuttings in pots for a couple of months does not guarantee clean plants. 

Ed


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

I haven’t had problems with fern rhizomes surviving 10:1 water to bleach. I have one delicate Begonia species that I haven’t been able to get through the process. Then again that one is hard to start from a cutting without bleaching it (very delicate Begonia). I also hear that Java Moss is sensitive, but I haven’t tried it.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Sounds like the general consensus seems to be a bleach (1:10 ish) rinse for most of the plants. 

Yes, its better to grow stock parent plants outside a tank, or in one not inhabited by frogs, but I was looking to establish a proticol (ugh, can't spell) for small trimmings off plants in frog tanks that some of us might swap, not plants purposely propagated to get cuttings. Plant swappings regularly occur when froggers get together, and the cuttings are often frog tank extras. What I need to do (or recomend to others) to make these plant cuttings "clean" was what I was going for, and what you guys have answered nicely


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

I have heard that someone was trying a "copper bath" for plant cuttings in regards to eliminating any chytrid. I can't remember who it was, but I would like to know the idea behind using this treatment for plant quarantine purposes and if it in fact does work.

-J


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

andersonii85 said:


> I have heard that someone was trying a "copper bath" for plant cuttings in regards to eliminating any chytrid. I can't remember who it was, but I would like to know the idea behind using this treatment for plant quarantine purposes and if it in fact does work.
> 
> -J


I recall reading somewhere to not tie broms to the background with copper wire, because copper is toxic to them...I would think that would apply to copper solutions as well. No idea as to what the copper would do to other plant groups.


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

Brian,

Yes most definately not for bromeliads. Even using water from copper pipes may be enough to kill broms. It was actually a quarantine protocol that involved spraying or bathing some sort of copper solution on the plants with a rinse cycle. I forget who was testing this out. Maybe it wasn't anyone here on the boards. 

-J


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

I found this post on another forum. I don't remember who wrote it, but it was a reply to the bleach bath method someone else was asking about. I saved it as a memo for myself, but thought the info would be useful here also. I hope the author doesn't get to mad at me for posting it here. I wish I would have copied there name to give them the credit for it. 

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""I located an article about cheap disinfectants a few years back, the link is below, but one of the safest disinfectants you can use on anything, is 100% safe for your amphibs as well.. whereas bleach.. well bleach will pretty much kill anything.. exactly.. kill anything, including the animals you want to keep alive. 

Hydrogen Peroxide and Vinegar, pour each fluid into a DIFFERENT spray bottle, label each. Then, spray one bottle, wait ten seconds and spray with the other. 

I tell you this much, I use this method to clean all my aquarium equipment, and alot of my food/veggies/fruits that I eat, and I am perfectly a-ok, here is the link to the article. 

http://my.execpc.com/~mjstouff/articles/vinegar.html 

And from ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar#Cleaning 
"Vinegar along with hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is used in the livestock industry to kill bacteria and viruses before refrigeration storage. A chemical mixture of peracetic acid is formed when acetic acid is mixed with hydrogen peroxide. It is being used in some Asian countries by aerosol sprays for control of pneumonia. A mixture of five-percent acetic acid and three-percent hydrogen peroxide is commonly used."[/url] "


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Oops double post


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

When using the 10% bleach solution it is important to wash the plants with clean water afterward. Most plants will not survive even a 10% bleach bath without rinsing. No one was suggesting to bleach plants, and then put them in a viv, without rinsing first. 

H202 is presumably an oxidizer as is hypochlorite. I’m not sure what the vinegar (a weak acid) is doing here. Peraceticacid is also a weak acid. it's hard to believe that the acid is what is killing the bacteria. I imagine that water is the outcome in any event. Maybe one of our chemists can comment. This method sounds like it has its merits. The only problem I see is that you probably want to soak your cuttings in one and then the other not just spritz them. There is no way to properly clean a brom without submerging it. I don’t think that spritzing will adequately wet the whole surface. Also we are concerned with killing nematodes and their eggs. I wonder if this method works against nematode eggs.

Thanks for the input Rad.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Peracetic acid is an organic peroxide formed by the reaction of hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid and has a stronger oxidizing potential than chlorine sanitizers such as sodium hypochlorite though it is less potent than ozone. It disintects by causing the oxidation of the membranes of bacteria, fungi and spores.

While not recognized as GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) by the FDA, it has been approved by the FDA for direct food contact use in wash water. Peracetic acid degrades relatively rapidly into fairly harmless substances (hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid) and leaves little residue.

Hope this answers your question Chris.

Bill


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Perfectly, Thanks Bill.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

I have routinely used a 1:5 bleach:water solution to soak my plants for 15 minutes. That is preceded and followed by a thorough rinsing in tap water, then two soaks in RO water for a few hours each.

Yes, this is a strong bleach solution . . . but that is exactly why I use it. I am certain that this kills most bacteria and viruses, but my main goal in using such a strong solution is to kill off eggs or dormant forms of parasitic organisms--which are known to oftentimes have a thick cuticle or other protective measure. If it doesn't kill them, my hope is to get enough tissue/buildup around them to slough off the plant that they rinse off in the subsequent rinse cycle.

I haven't lost any plants to this regimen that I can think of, and Java Moss seems to handle it well. I have, however, lost plants when leaving them in the bleach solution for 20 minutes or more.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2006)

The H2o2 and Vinegar mixture mentioned previously is very common.
In my industry we know this mixture by its commercial name of Xerotol and use for disinfecting just about everything. Including your shoes when moving between greenhouses. It is very safe, about the only plant Ive ever killed with it is algea.

Matt


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