# My Top 10 Beginner Mistakes



## Marty71

So I have been at this for three months and have somehow managed to keep 4 cobalts and 2 azureus alive (not mixed so please don't hurt me), but it hasn't been without making just about every single mistake in the book. With that in mind I thought it would be kinda cool to post my top 10 mistakes and hopefully get everybody to chime in on their own (so I don't feel so stupid and others won't make them)....

10. Great stuff without gloves. Knew I was screwed when I checked the label on how to get it off, and all I could find was the huge warning "Wear gloves". 

9. You do not need to give your frog the heimlich (sp?) when it looks like it's choking. It's called shedding, and albeit disconcerting, it's normal.

8. Give yourself access to your in tank waterfall pump. My waterfall looked great. Now my dry cliff looks great.

7. Seal off every inch of your false bottom, back wall etc. Enjoyed my 30 gallon viv for three solid hours after I put the Tincs. in. Enjoyed it again 4 days later after I drained it, tilted it, shook it and broke part of the false bottom. Hole was the size of a quarter.

6. Start cultures and figure it out b4 the frogs. I was lucky, when I got my tincs the Black Jungle guys hooked me up with some free cultures. I still managed to find myself a month later shaking every last fly out of their cultures, as well as my new failing ones. 

5. Do not use acrylic for a makeshift top. It's great for a week, until it bows and you wonder why you bothered cutting it so precisely. Good news, in a week it should be bowed enough that my son can pretend it's a canoe in the tub.

4. If your tank isn't sealed tight, don't feed hydei. Spouses, significant others don't see melan. that well, but the hydei are not exactly escape artists. They sit on the curtains, top of tanks, bureaus etc. and gloat that they got out.

3. Mold isn't the end of the world. From everything i have seen and read it goes away (still waiting on the 30 gallon grapewood) and isn't harmful. If you don't believe me search and find the once a week panic mold new post...

2. Have a better plan to catch and relocate your frogs then 12 newcastles and now seems like a good time. Turns out not only are they sneaky, they are fast as hell and don't view freedom the same way Hydei do.

1. Don't get demoralized when you realize you could make it a top 20 list....

Hopefully this is helpful, as a relative newcomer with little to offer i wanted to try and bring something to the table....

Marty


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## Enlightened Rogue

Great post, we`ve all been there. I still am  John.


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## MegophryidaeMan

I had a very difficult time makeing fruit fly cultures at first and think that was the hardest part for me. lol I think I spent more money on cultures and supplies than I did the frogs because it was so difficult to figure out the timing for me. It was either feast or famine at first. lol


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## Curt61

Hey, I am still in this phase :roll: I have learned that plexy glass does not stay stiff under humidity and heat. Hardware cloth does not hold a 3 foot long corn snake in a cage.... hardware cloth and 3 lbs on top does not keep my cornsnake from getting out, 6lbs of weight on hardware cloth does not keep my cornsnake in the cage.....But 20 pounds works  I think I might need a new lid... 
Mice reproduce alot faster then the snake can eat them...(especaily when you have 8 females and 1 male)
Fiddler crabs do not like to stay in the water feature...

Always have a viv set up for a while before you put frogs in...they tend to find places under the moss to go. (same with lizards)

Never expect your mom to do everything right when you are gone for a few days.
FF's always find small cracks to get out of...
Anoles can fit out of the crack that happens when the plexy glass warps up in the corners...
Well I think thats enough stupid things I have done in the last 2 months.

Hope this helps some of you out, Curt


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## amphibianfreak

Marty,

Grape wood molds in wet/humid environments worse than any other wood. The mold may never go away...


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## Marty71

I had a feeling, thanks Matthew. I'm going to give it another week or so because it looks really good in the tank (except for the fact that it's gray)but it's been long enough that it probably should have gone away by now.


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## titan501x

if u've got a problem with mold, then release some springtails in it.


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## Marty71

Thanks. I am going to give them a shot when it warms up a little (didn't have much luck getting insects shipped in December), but it may be like changing the oil on a car with a blown engine at this point.

I haven't completely given up, but it's been a while. Here's a good post on the grape wood mold....

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... +wood+mold

I appreciate all the mold help, but still interested in others mistakes, I am sure I have plenty left to make and still lookin to cut down on teh future ones...


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## defaced

Top two mistakes:
Not doing enough research. 
Not asking enough questions.


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## zBrinks

Marty, once the springs get reproducing (have to see if your frogs dont do them all in first), theyll take care of any mold that you have. 

My top mistakes:
- expecting to be able to see very frog anytime I look in the viv for the first 2 weeks, and thinking that just because I cant, one must be dead/injured. 
- thinking 65w of Cf lighting would do what I wanted on a 46g bowfront
- not including a water feature in my first viv, and overplanting horribly


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## DartMan

That post is just TO GOOD!


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## joeyo90

amphibianfreak said:


> Marty,
> 
> Grape wood molds in wet/humid environments worse than any other wood. The mold may never go away...


the grapewood i have in my imi tank never seemed to mold much but i have some other driftwood that never seems to stop(not in a frog tank but still moldy...)


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## Anoleo2

My top three:
...Putting the exo-terra background in upside down on my first viv (and realizing it after putting all the substrate in) :roll: 
...putting an alocasia 'polly' in my viv (got WAY to big)
...and only using one glove while great stuffing my vert :x


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## titan501x

Anoleo2 said:


> ...and only using one glove while great stuffing my vert :x


no glove, no love


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## pigface

My #1 biggest mistake . If your going to replace or rearange any broms in your viv CHECK and RECHECK and make sure there are not any frogs in it before getting rid of it ! Or youll be sorry  .


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## titan501x

pigface said:


> My #1 biggest mistake . If your going to replace or rearange any broms in your viv CHECK and RECHECK and make sure there are not any frogs in it before getting rid of it ! Or youll be sorry  .


OMG! did that really happen to you?


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## defaced

It happened to someone recently, I'm not sure if it was him or not.


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## titan501x

Oh man, i would have to go die if that happened to me!


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## defaced

Yea, losing frogs because of silly mistakes sucks very bad. I know I've had my share.


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## titan501x

defaced said:


> Yea, losing frogs because of silly mistakes sucks very bad. I know I've had my share.


i havent had that happen yet


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## JoshKaptur

it hasn't been long enough for you yet, but make sure every 6 months you replace your supplements (you'll have tons left and it will feel wrong) or you'll be lamenting a costly mistake, not just an annoying one.


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## titan501x

JoshKaptur said:


> it hasn't been long enough for you yet, but make sure every 6 months you replace your supplements (you'll have tons left and it will feel wrong) or you'll be lamenting a costly mistake, not just an annoying one.


yea, it sucks that supplements go bad so fast. I think i've had mine for about 3-4 months, so, i should be good for a while.


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## frogman824

Worst one yet....

Four Auratus (2 different morphs) and a tinc can't be mixed in a 20 L on a gravel and fake plant substrate with a 65 W light bulb. (This was over 3 years ago before I found the board)


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## titan501x

frogman824 said:


> Worst one yet....
> 
> Four Auratus (2 different morphs) and a tinc can't be mixed in a 20 L on a gravel and fake plant substrate with a 65 W light bulb. (This was over 3 years ago before I found the board)


what exactly happened?


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## frogman824

Forgot to mention I had bricks in there to separate the land and water. Anyways, I took them to my girlfriends for her parents to take care of when we went to Florida. I then put them in her freezing basement, and her dad thought it would be a good idea to take the light (which gave them very little heat) to the attic for about 3 hours so he could see what he was doing up there. I came back to all 5 of them frozen.


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## titan501x

wow, did they replace them?


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## corbsclinton

I cant believe no one "forgot" to use a substrate divider on their water fall viv! I thought I could use thick plastic and aquarium glue to seperate the land (coco/dirt all the way to the bottom) from the river. A few holes in the seal surely wouldnt hurt,right? That was fun to clean up.

I guess that one also falls under research and less under DIY


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## pigface

Yep . I didn't even realise it untill it was too late . I didn't see it way down in the brom ( big brom little frog ? ) I found it two hours later , he made it half way across the bedroom floor before dyeing . I still pissed off at myself for being so stupid . :x


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## titan501x

was he a froglet?


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## Thinair

Random thoughts...
Make sure your false bottom actually separates the soil/whatever from the water. Otherwise its not doings its job...

If you're using a cocohut, think about where you're putting it before the tank is planted and you have to crush plants/destroy aesthetic...

Designate a feeding or viewing area in an open area (of course this applies more for tinc-like frogs). 

--Carlos


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## pigface

No . One of my intermedius' . After two hours out it looked like a coco chip on the floor . All dried and brown ! Thats what I thought it was at first .  

So check your plants good when you replace something .


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## titan501x

head counts work too


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## SMenigoz

All good "common mistakes"; I'll add a few( certainly none _I've_ made :wink: )

*Trying to do too much with your first tank* by cramming way too many plants w/o factoring growth...looks fantastic for about one month.
*Water features* will eventually fail-- plan tanks for easy access to your pump. Always remember that water will find the path of least resistance, even if its where you didn't mean it to go...
*Assuming your frogs have died* because you can't see them. While this could be a possibility, its far more likely that they're just hiding. How many of us have torn apart a tank to "check" for these frogs...?
*Forgetting to close the electrical cord slide vents in the ExoTerra tank*...standard lamasi fit just fine through these spaces  
*Planning ahead*--all light bulbs fail, so why not order replacements BEFORE it happens?

Scott


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## black_envy

Assuming your frogs have died because you can't see them. While this could be a possibility, its far more likely that they're just hiding. How many of us have torn apart a tank to "check" for these frogs...?

 Need I say more?


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## O2 Plastics

On the other side, regularly seeing 2 of the 3 and assuming its a different 2 without a headcount. I went from 3 leucs to 2 during quarantine and didn't know until I moved them to their new home. I have no idea when #3 escaped.

What else, I have 2 vivs with no access to the pumps, 1 with the water level too high and a soaked substrate...

So lets add check your pumps required depth before setting your false bottom.


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## Curt61

I just had my two cobalt frogletts in a tank and found one all shrunk up and shrivled a few hours ago  the sad part is that my girl friend got me this froglett for christmas  

Make sure you check up on your frogletts and make sure they are ok kinda often.

Curtis


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## adnama36

This is a great thread for newbies like me...so I'm gonna BUMP it!


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## fishdoc

*10, 8, 6, 4 done, 6 more to go....*

Hi, I am a newbie to dartfrogs, but a lifetime herper. I recently set up a 55 gallon (two months ago) and bought 7 live auratus (bronze and black and green and black). I do have a question:

whats up the dang flies?? I have 18 cultures. The ones I start myself have tons of maggots.........lots of antennaed husks......but the flies just don't materialize. I am in a very dry climate, so I spray the tops once a day. Just put 9 of them in a styrofoam box with water in the bottom. ?? Their tricky little critters I must say...

Also, I am close to broke.......I can't believe how much I've spent so far!!! Does it get better, or am I headed into the abyss??


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## Curt61

Hey, you shouldn't need nearly that many cultures, I have 10 cultures for 6 frogs, but I also feed one of my lizards and my gold fish out of these cultures, I figure more then enough is better then not enough.

I have heard of that happening before, do you cultures mold? do you have tiny black or brown dust looking things on the top of your cultures? I had mites in some of my cultures and they would turn into maggots but not produce. 

You normally don't spend much money on them, the biggest thing is getting everything all set up and getting the frogs. Just paying for the culture(if you buy it) and supplements should be all you have to pay for. 


Good luck, Curt.


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## fishdoc

*dang fruit flies*

no, most of the cultures don't mold, drying out is a bigger issue. I don't see any dots, just a yellow teaming mass of molten maggots.......lovely image if the end result was the desired result..........food for froggies, fff for short.......

and yes, I went nuts on ebay- have 14 bromiliads, 6 staghorn ferns, equisetum, bat plant, and assorted sundries on the way...........already bought riccia and java from Brians Trop........green is good right? and I didn't have to tear the tank up to find them all.........if they would just all come out at the same time.........

are you sure, absolutely certain that my lonely red eyed tree frog wouldn't be happier in the big tank with them??

If big is better, there is a guy selling a tank on craiglist- a *250* gallon for 700 bucks........he's deploying soon.....can someone explain why psychologically, I REALLY want that tank???


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## dragonfrog

Fishdoc,
You hijacked a perfectly good thread!!!!



> Hi, I am a newbie to dartfrogs, but a lifetime herper. I recently set up a 55 gallon (two months ago) and bought 7 live auratus (bronze and black and green and black). I do have a question:
> 
> whats up the dang flies??


We are talking about top 10 mistakes, not how to culture FFs!! There are PLENTY of threads on FF cultures, please research them out and I am sure you will find the answer to your question, or at least start you own thread with this question. Not trying to be hard on you, it is just that this is a very good thread and hate to see it go "sideways".

Now, back to the thread....................


I think one of my biggest mistakes was buying an orchid online that was mounted to a piece of cork bark with a VERY fine filiment wire. My mistake was in not removing this wire. One of my Patricias got her leg wrapped around this wire and almost lost it. I thought it was broke for awhile, but to this day you can hardly tell it was broke or mamed.


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## Marty71

Don't be too hard on Fishdoc, I have been on a nice run of incoherent posts, broad generalizations that aren't helpful, and accidentally broken rules myself. Haven't hijacked a thread yet that I know of, but give me time.

*There are some things that can be taken from the post too. I don't want to say the M word, but you may want to reconsider keeping the two types of Auratus together.

*Fight the urge to go big too soon. Too late for me, but one tank is a great start and you should enjoy it and pace yourself. There are a lot of classified ads for people downsizing their collections. Probably stay away from the 250 gal, unless you are going to live in it.

*Don't give up on the cultures and you can feed out larvae. If the medium is moist enough they'll climb onto the lid, throw it in teh tank and the frogs will eat them right off it. It's a temporary fix till you get the cultures squared away, but may help in a pinch.

Sadly more of mine:
*Don't put new frogs in an elaborately planted tank. I lost two recently and everything was right in the tank (temps., humidity, plants cleaned and sterilized) yet two frogs never really got acclimated and slowly wasted away. Every other frog I have bought has gone into a minimally planted 10 gal and they have all done well. May be drawing a conclusion but it's all I can figure.

*Stay away from Swedish Ivy. The variety I had has beutiful purplish green leaves and rooted in no time. Within two weeks the roots had taken over the whole substrate and it was blocking out the light. When I went to pull it out it was in the substrate divider. Good times...

*Riccia needs light and constant misting, and once I figured that out it seems to be an inviting dumping ground for my tincs. One way or the other it's brown. I clean a clump, wait 10 minutes, and oh look a new dump. 

All I got for now, sure I'll figure some new things out soon enough.


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## SLEDDER23

Check out the mom really well before marrying the daughter. :shock: 

Seriously though...

FFs have to be the big one. I had two scares getting started. Now I make cultures EVERY weekend, need them or not. Make it a habit and get on a schedule. It's the only hard part about this hobby, and really not that hard at all.


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## fishdoc

*The M word...*

thanks for the comments......the frogs are actually froglets....which I why I'll be doing another tank soon....Sorry about thread jumping-actually it seemed like the perfect thread at the time.......not a hijack at all, and on topic.........again, thanks for the assist


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## Conman3880

This is a really interesting thread, and I want to bump it.

My mistakes...

If you're going to have a self-contained pond, dont make the divider out of plexiglass & silicone it in place. It'll work great for about a month. Then you'll have to rip apart the tank.

If after going through 3 tubes of silicone, and your pond STILL leaks, it's probably best to ditch the idea all together.

Exposed silicone doesnt look pretty in a viv =D

Dont put Nephrolepis exaltata near the water feature. The fronds will fall & rot quicker than you can get a frog shipped to you =P

MAKE A SIPHONING AREA FOR YOUR DRAINAGE AREA. If you dont, you're pretty much screwed no matter how you slice it.

You arent special. Everything that people warn you about WILL happen. It's just a matter of time.

99.9% of the creepy crawlies in your viv are okay, if not beneficial. Stop worrying.

When a frog has a reputation for being shy, you better believe that it's shy. Not "comes out into the open periodically" shy, but "never comes out of hiding. period." kind of shy.

If you have never seen a dart frog in person, I 100% guarantee they're smaller than you think. That hole that you think it too small for them to escape from-- think again.

If auratus are this small, I dont even want to KNOW how small thumbnails are. (not a mistake, but still...)

Fruitfly cultures crash sometimes. Have a backup source. Seriously.

Fruitfly cultures crash sometimes. Have a backup source. Seriously... did I already say that? =P

If you have shy frogs, RFB larvae will die faster than they eat them.

Investing in a GreatStuff background is much cheaper & probably much better than a pre-made background. (but I am fond of my habi-scape wall)

Plants grow. FAST. You know that plant on your windowsill that's been 6 inches tall since you got it 2 years ago? Give it 2 weeks in a vivarium and it'll double in size.

Exotic Angel provides a surprisingly good selection of plants. God knows what that "Peperomia japonica" is actually called, but it grows faster than any plant I've encountered.

Frogs will find hiding spots that you didnt even know you made... You know that really narrow space inbetween the background and the lid? That's one of their favorites =P

Philodendron are epiphytes :roll: 

Make sure everything is working 100% properly before adding plants... It will never look as good as it did the first time you put them in.

Terrestrial frogs enjoy climbing.

Six-spot auratus will screw any display tank. They can't go in a green viv, and they cant go in a brown viv. Infact the only color I've come across that makes them pop is pink.

Java moss grows wicked fast-- once it establishes itself... and that takes a loooooooong time.

Heating is probably not necessary. Temperatures anywhere from 65-85 are suitable for most frogs.

and finally; 

Fruitfly cultures crash sometimes. Have a backup source. Seriously. =P


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## ian

Great Stuff is in a highly compressed container. If you screw on the top and it doesn't come out do not punture the seal with a screwdriver! You will just have made a GS rocket and a huge ____ing mess.

When messing with GS, go outside away from the house, wear old clothes and gloves.


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## NathalieB

ian said:


> Great Stuff is in a highly compressed container. If you screw on the top and it doesn't come out do not punture the seal with a screwdriver! You will just have made a GS rocket and a huge ____ing mess.
> 
> When messing with GS, go outside away from the house, wear old clothes and gloves.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: I once had a super-big container of GS exploding in my living-room because my husband did just that: poke in it with a nail because the stuff wouldn't come out. fortunately it was before we moved and there wasn't any furniture in the room yet but it was everywhere: on the walls, on the ceiling, on the floor. it took us ages to get rid of it all! funny now but it wasn't at the moment (if I would have done that I'm sure that would have lead to a divorce. fortunately women are very understanding :wink: )

Nathalie


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## volcom69

LOL not all women are that understanding but im sure he is glad u are lol, that really sucks im glad that never happend to me.


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## Almecum

Well I will add my not to do's in here. 
I had a few years ago a 30 gal tall with Lucs and yellow backs in it and never had an issue with it. So you would think I would know better.
Don’t clean your tank with Sterilizer. I make beer and I thought it would be a good idea to use the sterilizer and clean everything when I was setting up my tank. Not a good idea!  
Found out that Super soil is not a good to use as well. :? 
2 new yellow backs and a week later they are dead. 

I do know one thing; make a culture every week for each frog. It’s better to flush them then not to have them.  
I used 3 liter bottles back when I had some 10 frogs to take care of to grow cultures in. 

Now I have a false bottom with rock, sphagnum moss and coco bark and 3 new Cobalt’s in an Oceanic Cube tank.


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## Conman3880

And one I just learned;

If a frog can get him or herself INTO a certain situation, it's likely that he or she can get out of it by themselves.


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## DizzyD

Keep IT Simple Stupid. Wives usually hate bugs (but the little frogs are cute, so they tolerate them :wink: ). Shipping is expensive and could be dangerous, pick-up is always better (whatever it is, things break, and no fragile is not italian...). Less money on service means more frogs.  If you try and show up at home w/ another new tank your wife may just try to make you sleep in it. Tincs are fat bastards, no matter how you slice it they always look hungry (Does jabba the hut really need a triple whopper w/ cheese?). Adding just one more tank next to or beneath another WILL raise the temp in both tanks. And finally the number one lesson I've learned is make sure you explain everything *completely *to those who are babysitting your tanks. Finding a froglet on the bathroom floor after a great vacation is one of the most angering things in all of the world. :evil: 
Well, Best of luck to you all. And especially to all who keep posting and helping everyone learn something new.


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## O2 Plastics

ian said:


> Great Stuff is in a highly compressed container. If you screw on the top and it doesn't come out do not punture the seal with a screwdriver! You will just have made a GS rocket and a huge ____ing mess.
> 
> When messing with GS, go outside away from the house, wear old clothes and gloves.


I know how I'm burning $10 this weekend.


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## froggerboy

I love this thread. It makes me feel at home. My biggest lesson is if you are a DIY guy then be patient.Your tanks will fail and flat out suck.The DIY tanks will cost more than a pre-made one so dont make one trying to save money. 
If you are new to PDF's then you have no idea how small thumbnails are even when you see them.I've got boogers larger than them.Don't buy them.
The rule: if it is fruit fly escape proof then its frog escape proof;is a good way to live.

If you do a search for all post made by me then one could see the full spectrum of stupidity or lack of knowledge.


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## Marty71

froggerboy said:


> If you do a search for all post made by me then one could see the full spectrum of stupidity or lack of knowledge.


Thank you, that made laugh, but trust me you are not alone.

Yet another thing I should add to my ever growing list of mistakes. Once you have more than a single set of frogs get fecals done on all new groups. While I am very careful tank to tank I recently learned that my newest frogs are very sick from a fecal I sent out. Now to ease my worried mind I will have to get over 10 different groups of frogs tested. It's a pretty expensive and painful lesson that could have easily been avoided. 

Without providing unregisterred vendor feedback I will say that the vet I worked with is one of the nicest people you will ever meet in this hobby or anywhere, and he may have singlehandedly helped saved my frogs.


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## Raymond

Here is something I learned the hard way recently. 

Never construct multiple tanks at once using a new method. I just spent a good deal of time, and money, but mainly time, re-doing four tanks. I decided to try out the concrete binder method for a change and everything turned out great until I introduced humidity, in which the stuff became soft once again. Maybe I got the ratios wrong, but I doubt it. 

Now I'm off to chisel off all that crap from my tanks. At least the $ a gallon sale at petco is going on incase I break anything. :evil:


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## Kytti

dont build your tank and then expect to get the rest of your supplies(ie food, supplements, more moss) and frogs at the same expo.


because then you will read this thread and smack yourself in the head.    

hey! it rhymed!

and feel incredibly stupid and idiotic for even thinking that in the first place

thank you for the post about frogs getting underneath the moss.
XD


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## IN2DEEP

Covering waterfeature supply/drainage lines with expandable foam = GOOD IDEA

Under estimating expanding foam's ability to collapse flexable tubes = BAD IDEA ( I had 3 drain tubes, now I got 1/2 of one)

Next time I'll use rigid tubing. It takes too long to cover tubes in a thick layer of hot glue before foaming.


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## jtrasap

*Not just gloves*

Not just gloves with the foam, pants and long sleeves also. I used the black Handi-Foam and I'm guessing great stuff wouldn't be much different. I got a little bit of it on my shin somehow. FYI: leg hair comes off with the foam!! OUCH!!


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## Jay Willis

ian said:


> Great Stuff is in a highly compressed container. If you screw on the top and it doesn't come out do not punture the seal with a screwdriver! You will just have made a GS rocket and a huge ____ing mess.
> 
> When messing with GS, go outside away from the house, wear old clothes and gloves.


Sorry for digging up the past, but I'm new so I'm alowed to do this a few times!!

I use this stuff all the time at work and besides the few new pairs of painting pants that I have made over the years, I'v never have any real disasters.

Sorry but the more I think back to this day, the more I laugh!

So one day a few years back, the boss man gave Me a new helper who wouldn't know how to fall down if He tripped! Sence I wasen't in the mood to teach anything or fix redo any work, I figured I would just give him the case of Great Stuff, show him how to fill in a hole in a wall, and send him on his way.

About an hour later I got to check on him, when I walk up to ask who things were going I see Him trying to clean out the tip with a 12 penny nail.(I think You can see where this is going) Before I get the chance to say anything the can blows up in his face and and flings small peices of the metal to every where!

So now He has sticky foam from the top of His head all the way down to the crotch of His paints, and the first thing He does is take both hands and wipe from his forehead to His bearded chin.(It's so hard to type while laughing this much)

Sence Were a construction sub contractor We just so happen to have what called a MSDS (materal safty data shet) and under "what to do when exposed to skin" it said "Seek medical attention before it dries if possable". 

To make it even better, when He asked if there was any thing to keep it from drying, someone said "if You run backword, it dosen't dry as fast"(I kid You not) 

So as I get in the truck to chace down as We all now call him (foam face) who is at this point running backwords down the main road, I'm on the phone with fire rescue to find the nearest ER and getting a room set up for him!

By the end of all of this He had to have 3 stitched from where the top of the can went into his arm, 5 or 6 skin grafts covering most of his face and neck, plactic surgery to fix His eye lids, and 3 weeks off for all of his hair and eye lashes to grow back! And to this day if You ask Him what the worst part of this whole story is, He'll tell You that He just paid 60 dollars for the new pair of paints that He was wearing, and His new Lugg boots are now trash!!

There some good to come out of this story!! Great Stuff now sells a solvent to remove their product from things like glass and tile that works pretty good on leather boots and Your hands. But You didn't hear that from Me. Read the label first, there are so nasty chemicals in there! But I know You can get this stuff at many large contractors supply houses like Granger if You get an ugly stain on Your *glass* tanks that a razor blade can't get!!

Sorry it was so long! I hope it made You guys laugh as much as I did that day!! And I promise from now on to keep it short and dated!


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## yellermelon

LOL I am new here as of yesterday! This thread is classic! I will now go back and study. This thread also make me feel like I have a frog friends home


----------



## dartboy2

I'm sill not done with my first viv but so far my #1 problem was not breaking the seal in the silicone tube, here I am thinking wow this is harder to pull than it looks and on the next squeeze goes a loud POP and that was really fun to clean up.lol


----------



## dom

make sure that you clean off your feet or knee when using silicon out side or you will end up with a big brown spot that loooks like smeared poop on your living room floor


----------



## zaroba

heres one:
be sure to thoroughly plan, check, and recheck over and over the plans you have for your viv. you might end up realising it could be easier if done a different way.

my big viv has a false bottom and 2 large reservoirs. If i realized it earlier, i could have excluded the reses, made the false bottom 5 or so inches tall instead of 3, eliminated the stand the tank is on, placed the whole thing directly on the floor and added another foot to the height.


heres another one:
make sure your false bottem is strong enough to support the stuff on top of it. I think mine is bending. wish i could somehow look under it to see if it was ok.


----------



## kyle1745

This is exactly why I prefer leca or gravel to a false bottom.


----------



## tzen

Alright, I am only about 80% completed with my first build, but I have learned a little the hard way:

1. Old silicone doesn't cure. You shouldn't use old silicone to secure the supports of your false bottom in place, thinking that you will save the new stuff for where it shows, or else when you are nearly done, you will find all of the suppots in a line against the back. And there will be a gloppy mess that is really hard to get to. :evil: 

2. Silicone (fresh silicone :wink: ) sticks really well to glass. Great Stuff sticks really well to silicone. Great Stuff sticks to glass OK, but not if you put the first layer on really thick. Then it doesn't stick at all. Luckily, Great Stuff is strong structurally, not just adhesive. 

I've learned plenty of other tips and tricks along the way, but those were the 2 mistakes that caused me the most aggravation.


----------



## stuckonfrogs

This might have already been stated, but one should ALWAYS check for leaks when you are making a 10G vert. BEFORE you put in false bottom, background, plants... I'm just saying...


----------



## stuckonfrogs

I forgot about this mistake
Plant height...
This question would have saved me a few hours of fixing a lid or two.
"How tall will this plant get?" :shock: 

I have a few plants that I love, but I have to trim them back every so often to keep the lids in place. If I would have asked the question ahead of time I might have put them in a larger tank to start with.

Jeff


----------



## CrotalusCo

great thread very helpful


----------



## Minois

*Muahahahaha!*

I have only made a tank so far, and not yet even handled a frog so I have made no mistakes! *laughs evilly* 

*One hour later* WHAT DO YOU MEAN I KILLED BOTH FROGS?


----------



## Minois

EDIT: I have 3 frogs whoot! I just realized that.


----------



## Obliv79

The biggest mistake I've made so far was not building the eggcrate false bottom tall enough to make my pond deeper. After sphagnum moss, pillow moss and gravle my pond shrank incredibly. So like I read AFTER building my viv think your plans out in extreme detail and then go over them again from start to final product. If you do you'll end up with exactly what you want.....


----------



## Malaki33

*my turn*

1) Make sure you put the lid back on your Silicone tube, dont think leaving the applicator on will keep your silicone liquid like.

2) the PVC for your false bottom gets secured to the bottom of the tank, not the bottom of the egg crate you dumb Smoo (slaps himself in the forehead)

Mitch


----------



## zaroba

*Re:*



kyle said:


> This is exactly why I prefer leca or gravel to a false bottom


lol. i figured 2 layers of egg crate supported every 6 inches by 2" pvc would be enough.
the sinking seems to have stopped though, so guessing it was just the leaking stream making the substrate settle.



stuckonfrogs said:


> This might have already been stated, but one should ALWAYS check for leaks when you are making a 10G vert. BEFORE you put in false bottom, background, plants... I'm just saying...


also can be stated for when using an aquarium as a reservoir. after reading that, i remembered that when i first assembled my viv inside, i had a 10 gallon aquarium as the res. after doing a bit of work i noticed water on the outside of the aquarium. drained it, pulled it out, and found a large crack in the side. don't know how it would have gotten there when placing it, and don't remember seeing it when i put it underneath.


another mistake...kinda...plexiglass will warp, which is a pain for sliding doors. i'm stuck switching the positions of and rotating my 3 sliding doors until i can get either thicker plexi or get glass (which i'd rather not use). it's more of a pain when using hinged doors.

yet another one. don't clean a dirty impeller pump by running it in steaming hot water. it tends to ruin them and make them short out.


----------



## dannyces

i really wanted to post my top 10 but all my fingers are stuck together and i have silicon in one eye so its really hard to type


----------



## Garuda

I used too much wood in mine jutting out all over the place and crossing the tank at various levels. The shadows don't look very dark to me, but I now have places where very little grows.


----------



## salix

dannyces said:


> i really wanted to post my top 10 but all my fingers are stuck together and i have silicon in one eye so its really hard to type


LOL :lol:


----------



## The Kaptain

When siliconing always have a window open and a fan running!


----------



## earthfrog

*Re:*



titan501x said:


> Oh man, i would have to go die if that happened to me!


I nearly threw out a female in a shipment thinking I had been stiffed. I was supposed to get two, but alas I found only one. I was pretty ticked until I noticed one was resting upside-down, camoflaged on the bottom of a leaf. Newbie...glad I saw her before I threw out the packaging...


----------



## earthfrog

The Kaptain said:


> When siliconing always have a window open and a fan running!


And a good ventilator mask that blocks out fumes...


----------



## bigfatfroggy

those are some good things not to do thnx for the advice :mrgreen: :!:


----------



## Matt

These are mostly my viv building mistakes...

1) If using eggcrate, put it in BEFORE the Great Stuff.
2) Have lots of disposable gloves to spread the silicone on great stuff. Tools will not work. Paintbrushes wont work at all.
3) Have more than 1 route for an animal to escape a water feature! They may not like to climb the way you intended. 
4) Wear long sleeves with great stuff. No matter how careful I was, it always got on my arms. (And wear safety goggles obviously)
5) Cut notches into support beam pvc's before sealing them into place.
6) Moss needs to be misted! A wet substrate doesn't especially help it.
7) If it looks like a hunk of styofoam... covering it with mortar doesnt magically make it look like a rock. Shape it out fully, the grout is too thin and too hard to work with.
8 ) Electrical cords are UGLY. Next time I'm gonna put in a pvc pipe behind the GS to use as a wire run.
9) Expect to do a 2nd layer of ... everything.
10) Be careful with dried moss hanging into the water reservoir. It can wick water and completely saturate the entire substrate.


----------



## lovemysims

I am new and this is what I have messed up so far:

1) Hydroton floats! This is why every-one uses egg crate and PVC Pipe. I thought I could just rest the substrate on top of the hydroton.  

2) Check to see if the tank is water tight before siliconing in the whole water feature! Yeah I am hoping this can be fixed from the outside at this point  

3) Make sure your frog is comfortable while you are doing construction, cause things may take longer than you think. Alot longer.


----------



## Haleman50

wow so many things to consider. thanks guys.


----------



## Mikee

Make more FF cultures than you actually need. 

thats all for now..


----------



## somecanadianguy

what ever u think your gonna spend setting up a tank times it by 4 , then you might be a lil closer lol

alwas run any airlines or tubbing before ya great foam , even if u might not use them put em in anyway

dont plan on putting wood with broms already mounted on before great foam , who woulda thought that broms dont like to be covered in greatstuff?

the best tip i can think of for real froggers is alwas have one or two tanks up and running that are empty {complete just no frogs} ya never know when a deal comes up, alwas when your to busy to set up tanks.

dont be cheap , if you lose frogs to disease throw the plants and wood and anything that cant be soaked in bleach away, 125$ frog lost because of a 10 buck brom , dont make sense but youd be surprised how much it happens
craig


----------



## LittleDip

Well said Craig! :wink:


----------



## atchleyj

FF culture and Backup FF culture at all times...a crash in your culture is a major pain and your local pet store charges 17.95 for malan. culture - ouch!


----------



## bksbuddha

Y'all are making me nervous about the multitude of mistakes that I'm going to make...eventually. I've gone rather sparce w/the viv for now as I have froglets that are great at hiding in there as it is. 
So far my biggest mistake was not asking the saleperson about how to take care of their food, ie. pinheads.


----------



## georgiekittie

Marty71 said:


> I had a feeling, thanks Matthew. I'm going to give it another week or so because it looks really good in the tank (except for the fact that it's gray)but it's been long enough that it probably should have gone away by now.


I read that grapewood is the worst to put in your tank, but mopani wood is supposed to hold up well under high humidity and is available at most pet stores. I just bought some... let you know how it works out!


----------



## SamsonsFrogs

Hahah, thats so funny.I myself made a Acrylic top for my tank and is ok so far.My tank is only a few weeks old and its holding up fine.I used 1/4 inch thick acrylic so hopefully it will be ok. I also put some waterfalls into my tank and luckll i am able to get to my pump but it still is causing me trouble.I just got some "New River" Tinc's and am hopefully gonna breed them. I am hooked on this hobby so i think im gonna go buy some Patricia's and breed them aswell. Any tips and help i can get are greatly appreciated.


----------



## csdemarinis

Thinking that a praying mantis would be a great addition to your Auratus' tank.... everyone was peaceful for the first week, until the praying mantis decided he would enjoy a larger challenge than crickets... i emerged from the bathroom to find my frog pulled to it's face like a plum, the mantis kackling in victory poised to take a big bite out of his newly acquired morsil... franticly i grabbed the closest precision tool: a tweezers. after several attempts to prevent each of the mantis' cutting tools (arm 1, arm 2 and its mouth) from harming my frog, i realized it was hopeless to attempt to remove each arm from her. Not wanting to harm either the frog or the mantis i performed a desperate act: i grabbed one arm with my fingers (to prevent it from piercing her side, and with the tweezers gently squeezed the mantis' head. Scared to death, the mantis relinquished its feast with only a 1/8 inch scratch on my frog's side. after a week of quarentine and a mantis relocation (to the madagascan hissing cockroach tank). My dart frog enjoys single life.


----------



## Ziggi

Don't want to sound rude at all.
But where does a person get the thinking that a praying mantis would do well with PDF's? lol... I would immediatly think that something like that would happen, afterall isn't that what Praying mantis' do?


----------



## csdemarinis

i didn't think it would be big enough to eat her... just a small mantis... and it didn't seem to be interested for the first few days, it seemed to enjoy the top of the tank. I now realize it was a bad idea i should have just kept him with the roaches from the get go.


----------



## Ziggi

Do you still have the mantis?
It's sounds pretty cool, i haven't seen one in real life but sure sounds like it could be very interesting to watch! I'm glad everyone got out of it unharmed, a bit traumatized but safe lol


----------



## frogparty

mantis are cold blooded killers! I raised about a hundred this year from an egg case I bought at my local nursery. It was like thunderdome in the container when they hatched. 
back on track now-
not enough light reaching the floor of the viv
inefficient use of viv space
no false bottom
thinking I could be satisfied with just one viv.


----------



## basshummper

i saw a documentary on mantises where one ate a humming bird and another one caught a snake! don't put any animal in a mantis tank that isn't food.


----------



## yours

]]]casting away the "live guarantee" just to get the intended frog because the "weather was warmer"...only to receive the frog DEAD ON ARRIVAL, and lose out on a couple of hundred dollars...no refund. no dice. 

*sigh* 

building blocks to learn from for sure....



Alex


----------



## ilmorescue

Really enjoyed your post, Marty! I'm a beginner, too. In fact, I came here to see what to do about the mold growing on my cypress lungs. <LOL> Are you sure it's not harmful? I already have some springtails in that tank - no frogs yets. Guess I'll give it some time.


----------



## alluringeli

Its nice to see that there are other newbs out there and have made all these mistakes and posted them so that people like me wont make them or atleast will know what to do if i do make them lol.


----------



## frogfreak2020

The right containers were always a problem for my FF cultures now I'm pretty sure I've got it down, 4 cultures every week mason jars with coffee filters over the top. Also dont seal the tank completely less you want a swamp, now have a screen back and things look to be drying out.


----------



## bruce

"Throwing away a lifeless frog":
One time I almost threw away 2 pairs of adult yellow galacts that arrived in a January cold spell. Looking lifeless,cold and upside down I called the sender for advice. Take some pictures and send them in for a refund. I swear they were dead! They didn't move for easily 10 hours! Next morning I woke to take them in for pictures and they were all moving around like nothing happened.
Last week received a trio of auratus and the female was upside down and lifeless. Emailed the shipper and was advised a check would be sent. Next morning I went out to throw out frog and its moving around. Another pie on my face moment, and I have had frogs for years!
Makes me wonder if the terribilis female I pitched many years ago was indeed dead or should I of dug through the garbage.
Moral of story, upright "dead frogs" spray with water and leave them be for a day or two, you might be surprised.

"Using pothos ivy"
How many times have I found glass hoods of tanks ajar allowing frogs to escape? Why because of the slow pressure from pothos! Whenever I use it now I duct tape the top on to prevent the eventual frog loss.

And finally, while this is an exception to the usual, "How many times have I not used American Express to pay for the frogs? With all the vendors here I have used and received great service, but when venturing into cyber space and purchasing "frogs that never arrive", "the wrong frogs" "dead frogs" etc, American Express has "no quibble" refund policy that vendors who use them agree to that makes the rare unethical frog vendor settle to your satisfaction.

I could list MANY more mistakes but I am depressing myself from reliving the above expierences.


----------



## crentania

#1 After spending countless hours on my background that was gonna be SOOO coooooool I realized styrofoam floats. And I'd made a big rock with a waterfall to sit in a large water feature. Alas.

#2 Brown GEII Silicone does NOT always cure. you may end up with some VERY sticky gravel if you don't check it before you put the rocks into it.

#3 Fruit flies are the bane of my existence. I use the super duper media, and still have problems with smell. 

#4 Fruit Flies are the bane of my existence. How many times am I going to have to run and buy 2 $6 tubes of 20 flies just because I forgot to make my cultures a month ago?

#5 Fruit Flies are the bane of my existence. Hydei DO take a month+ to bloom in Utah. Expect it. Embrace it. 

#6 Fruit flies are the bane of my existence. Apparently, after months of eating only Hydei, my Vittatus look at Melanogaster as some sort of "sub-par" food. Melanos and Hydei mixed into one dump of fruit flies. They will pick out the Hydei EVERY. DANG. TIME. So much for cheaper and faster to culture. 

#7 Do a "test run" with the flies BEFORE putting your frogs in. Get a culture that's going to be thrown anyway. Dump the flies into your tank. Watch where they go and how they crawl out. Silicone. Quickly. Or else you might think one day "Oh! Flies are getting out here. SIlicone this and that and.... wait. Fumes are probably noxious to those poor frogs... Didn't lose a single one. Thankfully. Still gives me nightmares though.

#8 Do NOT expect a DIY tank to cost less than that $50 background sitting in the pet store. You WILL use 3x the amount of GS you expect, AND you WILL buy the wrong silicone/grout/adhesive/cocofiber.

#9 If you hear calling, it's time to start the grow out tanks. They will take you longer, and that first clutch is going to come sooner than you expected. 

And #10 Do. Not. Freak. Out. That frog you haven't seen for 5 days is fine. He just hates your big nose. He did not drown. He is not being bullied by his friends. He is happy, and will come out and chirp for you when you don't have time to sit and watch for hours.


----------



## Dragas

running water does whatever it wants to.


----------



## rpmurphey

Frogs and dogs don't mix. 

When feeding your frogs, pay attention to where your frogs are if they are bold.

Know where your dog is, when feeding your frogs.

Feeding time in the morning for the frogs and I opened up the front of the cage and wasn't paying any attention and to my surprise one jumped out onto the floor as my dog was trying to help me catch him. loved that little fiasco. The frog is still alive, thank god.


----------



## fishdoc

After a year and a half:
fruit flies taste good with whiskey.
fruit flies don't like diet creme soda, unless you add whiskey.
cook with coarse ground pepper so company does not realize they are eating fruit flies.
you can never have too many fruit flies.
closed systems mean dry water features.
look before you slide the glass closed.
pothos will grow anywhere, plants that like moist conditions don't really like moist conditions.
You can rasp great stuff off off with a horseshoe rasp.


----------



## Estrato

bruce said:


> "Using pothos ivy"
> How many times have I found glass hoods of tanks ajar allowing frogs to escape? Why because of the slow pressure from pothos! Whenever I use it now I duct tape the top on to prevent the eventual frog loss.


Uh oh, I have some in my pum tank thats been growing like crazy lately. Glad you posted this.


----------



## winyfrog

Great Advise. I am new to dart frogs and just starting to build my viv.


----------



## cbau45

Awesome thread for a newbie. I've never kept dendros so this should be interesting especially since it's my first viv. Thanks for the tips everyone. I'm working on a 60gal cube for about 5 Azureus so it's good to read up on all of these mistakes. Gives me lots of ideas questions to post in a seperate thread, don't want to hijack this thread and ruin a good thing.

-Craig


----------



## earthfrog

1. Assuming that if I don't add a siphon tube to the tank that the water will just naturally evaporate up through the substrate onto the glass and diligent tank-wiping will take care of it. Great idea if you never mist the tank, but then the frogs would die. Plus, being arm and all in the tank doesn't facilitate breeding...

2. Watching the frogs too much during the day. It stresses them out, then you never see them and then you go digging for them. 

3. Not keeping FF cultures going strong. They crash and Petsmart doesn't always have replacements---at least not of Melanogaster. 

4. Putting too many frogs in one container for quarantine. I bought two juvis from a pet store (private breeder, not imports), put them in a 2.5 gallon that was sparsely planted. One died of sheer stress since I touched it with my fingertip. 

5. You finish this out with five of your own...


----------



## bobberly1

1) Don't be too concerned with price. Obviously, don't spend beyond your means, but opting towards cheap or expensive frogs just aids damaging popularity fluctuations.
2) ALWAYS add some type of drain, even just a tube to siphon from siliconed in, to your vivs.
3) Make sure you safely store accurate information on your frogs, such as age, subspecies, and line.
3b) Kind of relates to the above. Always make sure that the frogs you are breeding are from the same line before breeding them. Don't just but "a male imi" for your female before doing research on the origins of both.
4) Make sure you are always enjoying it. If you aren't, why bother?
5) Support dart frog companies by buying supplies (and frogs if they have what you want), you may spend a few extra dollars, but the information and offspring they produce with their large collections are priceless.
6) Get a varied collection at first, then find something to focus on. You'll be a lot more satisfied, productive, and knowledgable with a focused collection.


----------



## Deli

Always seal AND Leak-test Vertical vivs before dumping 3 gallons of water in them.


----------



## moscontheroad

Mates, thanks for sharing the info, quite helpful, and entertaining!!!
I laughed as I haven't done so in quite a long time, and made me start thinking a few back-up plans for my ideas for my first viv; so far so good;

Except for:
1. as mentioned before through this post, it has been more expensive than what I expected, but worth it.
2. siliconed my fingers, polyurethaned my hands, arms, and even some parts I thought the foam would never reach.
3. my fingers/hands got pinched, snaped, prickled, cut, glued together or to another surface, and experienced some other forms of torture never to expect while building a terrarium, working with and cleaning polyurethane/silicon stains, setting up the drain port, tubing, airways, false bottom, etc.
4. I made *assumptions*, fortunately I have no frogs nor plants yet, we can learn from someone else's mistakes, and most stores give refunds.

So... I'll wait a week or so for the plants, gave the downpayment for 3 Azureus which I'll be picking up in mid-late November after my honeymoon so they will be in good hands with their breeder and not in my mother's or mother in law who will most probably be freaked out to have to take care of some horrid bugs, or a friend who might find amusing to see if frogs can get drunk, or a neighbor who may forget that cats and frogs don't get along and leave the lid open.

Cheers!


----------



## Agreen

telling your girlfriend you love the frogs more than her

frogs disappeared and I'm now single


----------



## thelegend76

This post is my favorite by far. I read it and laugh every single time. Not too mention that they are all true and I've done some of them myself.


----------



## moscontheroad

Using incandescent bulbs in a fluorescent bulb casing


----------



## frogfreak

Do not leave 30 empty cases of beer in the basement when you are trying to culture FLIGHTLESS fruit flies


----------



## Cefalos

I did a major mistake in my first experience whit PDF. I didn´t believe on that rule that says "If it´s wide enought for a FF, it´s also for a PDF" or something... 

Result: Two weeks after I´ve noticed the fugitive frog, I found it on my building´s garden, on the first floor. The amazing is that I used to live on the 15th floor !! How the *&$% that frog went down ?? I´m still trying to figure LOL... I put it back on it´s viv, and the guy lived for a couple more years, without even stop eating...

Now i´m buildin a new tank, and the lids are all sealed with silicon. Living and learning...


----------



## cheezus_2007

ima say thats a trip bout the frog getting out.... and the beer cans, i was wondering where the hell all these flying fruitflys came from haha. anyways ALWAYS SILICONE BEFORE YOU FOAM... and make sure your foam is glued with something that wont break as your dunking it with wet concrete all over it... my waterfall turned into 4 floating rocks in the soaking tub.


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Some great advice in here! All of it strikes a chord now I'm more into this frog hobby.

Fruit fly cultures...aghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Water Man

This is great, I was working with great stuff yesterday, took off a glove to answer the phone...went back to work without the one glove. Looks like my fingers are rotting off. Acetone and goo gone cant take this stuff off. lol


----------



## Shenanigans

Water Man said:


> This is great, I was working with great stuff yesterday, took off a glove to answer the phone...went back to work without the one glove. Looks like my fingers are rotting off. Acetone and goo gone cant take this stuff off. lol


Haha... yeah I did that cuz I thought I'd be careful enough "just to touch up this one spot real quick" without a glove. If you look at the can it says if you get it on your skin it must be "mechanically removed" or just allowed to come off after forever and a day. LOL mechanically removed!?! I guess that you'd have to cut off your finger before it'll come off on its own!


----------



## Label

Be careful not to drop your Iphone on your darts while taking pictures of them! 

True Story... I was so excited when I got them and wanted to show them off. Opened the lid and started taking pictures of them.The phone slipped out of my hand and fell right on top of two of them!

Now when they see me any where near the tank with my Iphone in hand they all make a run for it!


----------



## Mtupup

this is pretty deep in the thread, but maybe it'll help someone:

Gojo (or any pumice hand cleaner) helps get great stuff off.


----------



## TimrekWTF

I may be able to do a GS top ten mistake list.

1. When they say it expands, work in thin layers....they arn't lying to you.

2. When you realize you have not worked in thin layers and it is indeed expanding don't leave the room. It will take advantage of the fact that you are not there to expand some more.

3. When you come back from leaving the room and find that it has taken advantage of the fact that you were not in the room and expanded further...do not try to remove it.

4. If you see a great place to carve a cave into semi-dry GS foam resist the urge, put the knife down and back away. The inside of the foam will become the outside of the foam and it will expand further, and you will have no foam under your now over expanded foam.

5. On to silicone and coco fiber. After hydrating your coco, dry it well.

6. Once your coco is dry....dry it again. And then bake it in an oven for a while, and then threaten to set it on fire. Damp cocofiber doesn't stick to silicon. 

7. If you have put black silicon on the inside of your tank, dont expect to be able to re-claim the tank for another purpose later. Whoever said wet silicone doesn't stick to dry silicone lied. 

I know there are more. I have a mental block stopping me from remembering the rest I think.


----------



## Boondoggle

TimrekWTF said:


> 2. When you realize you have not worked in thin layers and it is indeed expanding don't leave the room. It will take advantage of the fact that you are not there to expand some more.


LOL...so true.


----------



## moscontheroad

When I finally received my 3 Azureus I left the container where I received the frogs unattended for less than a minute; my cat was quite happy, she thought we brought live treats for her.

While transferring the frogs I flipped the container into my terrarium (tried to do it carefully but got distracted) and one ended up buried under the sphagnum moss and survived more or less an hour while my wife and I (and the cat) were desperately looking for the 'fugitive' frog.

Creating a Christmas environment inside the terrarium with 'little snowmen' instead of powdered fruit flies each meal for the first few meals, and leaving, for the frog's standards, 30 centimeters of 'snow' around the feeding spots and a handful of 'snowflakes' on top of each frog due to the excess of supplement, and lack of experience calculating the right amount of supplement and flies.


----------



## Boondoggle

Always get as much info as you can about the heritage of any frogs you buy at the time of purchase. You may be in love with the suckers and not care a wit about where they come from, but when they start throwing froglets you're going to be asked specific questions from potential buyers. Going back to the one who sold them to you two years later is not always fruitful.


----------



## jward

ugh... just worked on my first viv... wet cocofiber that wouldn't stick and grape wood features.... 

Wish I would of read.... This is a great thread, thanks all for helping!


----------



## davecalk

Shenanigans said:


> Haha... yeah I did that cuz I thought I'd be careful enough "just to touch up this one spot real quick" without a glove. If you look at the can it says if you get it on your skin it must be "mechanically removed" or just allowed to come off after forever and a day. LOL mechanically removed!?! I guess that you'd have to cut off your finger before it'll come off on its own!


Acetone actually *will* take 'Great Stuff' off, but only if you go after it immediately, while the foam is still in it's wet and sticky stages. Once it has set up, only time and new skin cells will cure the rotting fingers look.


----------



## jgibeau

This thread started about six months after I returned to the Army, GOD it brings back some funny (now - NOT so funny THEN) memories.

Phil Tan breeds a special kind of fantasticus with a warp drive organ juuust forward of their back legs. When placing them into their new home, PLACE THE ENTIRE CONTAINER INTO THEIR NEW HOME, *THEN* REMOVE THE LID.

Should you get some fantasticus from Phil, and you try the old "open the lid of their new home, open the lid of their travel container and try to drop them in", you _might_ (if you are lucky) see a black and orange streak approximately three feet long. This streak will extend to the back of the tank, to one of the walls of the tank, then straight as an arrow OUT of the tank just under the closing lid to your neck, where they will immediately be out of sensor range. *@#*$#$%* _What the hell was_ *(@[email protected]#%*(#$)@#$%*!!!!!!! JENNIFER, GET A TOWEL AND BLOCK THE BOTTOM OF THE FROG ROOM DOOR!!! NOW NOW NOW! HURRY!!!!!!*

We all like to believe that our captive bred frogs do not produce poison. This is especially a nice belief to have where your GORGEOUS adult orange terribilis are concerned. BUT, if you happen to be moving them from one tank to another, and they freak a second or so in your hand, then stiffen up and secrete some slimy mucousy crap onto your fingers - DO NOT THEN TOUCH YOUR FINGERS TO YOUR TONGUE. Don't worry, you are not going to die. You are just going to WISH you had died. Think of your worst migraine. If you thought it was almost unendurable, you are about to experience a pain that is almost ORGASMIC. Jennifer found me literally crying in the bedroom about an hour later. She said "If you don't die, I will kill you myself. Idiot."

Fruit fly media is great stuff for growing fruit flies. Erin and Dave Mclay make some of the best there is. I always found the directions for the water ratio to be a little too dry, so I always added a liiiiittle more water. Once your frogs are on auto-pilot, sometimes it is easier to just lay the culture on it's side in the viv, and let the flies hatch and grow out of there all by themselves. MAN, do Erin and Dave's Super Media give those female flies a good breeding boost! The frogs sit and wait right there for the flies to come out. Yeeea. really soupy cultures = something akin to the La Brea tar pits. "FLIES FLIES, waitaminuteIseemtobestuckandwhatthehe... glug glug. That one stung too, because it was a pair of WC Powder Blue tinctorius, which were, I kid you not, 3.5 inches SVL. Both went the way of the mastodon. 

Always have a double lid on your tanks. Meaning, a piece in the front, and a piece in the back. Silicone the back piece down, then TAPE it down. Those tender little loving plants our frogs love so much? They push. HARD. Don't think so? Wait till some of that gorgeous purple passion you think is so pretty pushes up the back of the tank lid just enough for all your vents to take a one way carpet safari. You will make up new words then, for each poor, dead frog you find. trust me.

Never turn your back on an open lid. That one has cost me plenty, and Murphy will always make sure that ONLY your most expensive prized frogs will have been waiting for just such an opportunity.

Don't try to show off your hole cutting abilities with a glass bore in front of the entire frog society while they are at your house. You are gonna screw it up, and they are gonna tattle on you to your wife.

Final No no. When your drunk, the frog room is off limits. You will have A LOT of questions in the morning, and that is surely how long drawn out "YOUR A MONSTER!! hybrid threads get started.


----------



## Biology

to jgibeau:

oh thats good you had me laughing my head off. "One way carpet safari" hahaha!
and wow you seriously got a bit of Phylobate poison in you??? wow!!! that must have sucked!!!


----------



## Steve25

dartboy2 said:


> I'm sill not done with my first viv but so far my #1 problem was not breaking the seal in the silicone tube, here I am thinking wow this is harder to pull than it looks and on the next squeeze goes a loud POP and that was really fun to clean up.lol


Lol I did the same thing and went to the store saying "I think you sold me old Silicone.." And he said did you break the seal.. and I said "oh dang."

-The other mistake was putting wet cocofiber on my background and never holding lol.

-Breaking the sprayer noozle on GS lol

-Buying too many plants in the beginning


----------



## Boondoggle

Man, I can't believe I'm still making beginner mistakes.

I have been raising blue springtails on large charcoal chunks over coco chunks. I have some ancon hills that hide a lot and have not been putting on weight very well so I was trying to lure them out by putting the large charcoal piece, teeming with springtails into the middle of the tank. I was hoping a feeding station scenario would bring them out a bit more. Unfortunatly I put the charcoal back into the original springtail shoebox when they were done with it. 

As you can guess my culture crashed DEAD after doing that twice. I suspect I introduced other fauna into the culture (I saw an Isopod in there?). It is now a poorly populated mite culture.

I no longer have blue springtails.


----------



## NMiamiguy40

1. Not finding this site first before doing anything on your viv

No gloves with the great stuff and had to scrub scrub scrub till my skin was red


----------



## BBJ

When you are still merely a rookie into the exciting world of Fruit Flies and you are getting ready to set up a couple of new cultures:
Get a couple of vacuum cleaners, strap them to your belt and get ready to wield em' like a mad cowboy straight out of the wild west.

Keep It Simple Stupid!... Seriously, you dont need that waterfall and the flowing stream and the pond and what not. It will only bring you headaches.

Do something really sweet for your wife/girlfriend before you introduce them to the food items which the little cute frogs will be consuming. Try to make up some reasons why its not so bad to have a s***load of containers filled with bugs in your home.

Make sure that you remove ALL objects lying on the floor before you and your assistant put down the 200 gallon vivarium, or prepare for the unnerving crack made by large panes of glass being broken.


----------



## decev

Reading that mixing fruit fly strains creates fliers, and thinking "Yeah yeah why would I mix flightless and wingless cultures anyway?"

Then later feeding a froglet that has a banana piece in its viv both types of flies and getting a face full of flying fruit flies one day when you open the lid.


----------



## decev

BBJ said:


> Make sure that you remove ALL objects lying on the floor before you and your assistant put down the 200 gallon vivarium, or prepare for the unnerving crack made by large panes of glass being broken.


Oh jeez.... that happened to you? Was the viv filled or empty?


----------



## Dragonfly

Just a note of information, you can safely mix hydei & one version of melanos together without getting flyers.


----------



## BBJ

decev said:


> Oh jeez.... that happened to you? Was the viv filled or empty?


It did indeed, luckily there was no water in it, but apart from that it was all set up... Very annoying and took ages to repair


----------



## frogface

When dealing with fruit flies, be sure to put your hair in a ponytail *before* you take off the lid and lean over the container.


----------



## SmartyZ

Recently built my viv and so far my big mistake was not enough support for the false floor I put in because I also created a rock waterfall in one corner and I did not put enough supports in that corner. It's holding but it is bowed a bit.


----------



## davecalk

I just saw this and thought it hit all the right buttons and it's pretty funny.

Newbie goes to buy frogs.


----------



## jethomp

zBrinks said:


> - expecting to be able to see very frog anytime I look in the viv for the first 2 weeks, and thinking that just because I cant, one must be dead/injured.


You got that right. I put my (first ever) 4 d auratus in my vivarium this afternoon and they immediately melted into the plantings. I spent the rest of the day trying to do head counts and wondering if one could have _possibly_ cleared the top in the three seconds my back was turned.

Fast + tiny + abundantly planted tank + 46-year old eyes = 'Where ARE they all!?'


----------



## xsputnikx

I just saw this and couldnt stop laughing the post was very true and comical because ive been there with almost every mistake I remember my first vivarium I was freaking out because my frogs made it behind a hole in the wall of my tank that lead into the false bottom but they were saved of course my tank was destroyed


----------



## Lunar Gecko

I sure am learning. Learning not to use GS and gorrilla glue with no gloves then when thats all worn/picked off my hands (3 days later) do grout.... with no gloves. Seems I have worn off my skin on my finger tips and am bleeding a bit! 

GLOVES ARE YOUR FRIEND!


----------



## Boondoggle

Lunar Gecko said:


> ...do grout.... with no gloves. Seems I have worn off my skin on my finger tips and am bleeding a bit!


In the tile business those are what is known as "strawberries"...ouch.


----------



## Lunar Gecko

Boondoggle said:


> In the tile business those are what is known as "strawberries"...ouch.


Thanx! Now I have a name to put to my pain and I do feel better knowing I am not the only person to have this happen.


----------



## tclipse

When your temp sits at 78 degrees in your 125, don't add a CF spotlight to accent that centerpiece plant, while simultaneously trusting your girlfriend when you told her not to open the blinds. The combo will raise your temps up over 85 degrees while you're at work, and you will lose all six of the yellow galacts that you bought last month. I could almost cry.


----------



## davecalk

gtclipse01 said:


> When your temp sits at 78 degrees in your 125, don't add a CF spotlight to accent that centerpiece plant, while simultaneously trusting your girlfriend when you told her not to open the blinds. The combo will raise your temps up over 85 degrees while you're at work, and you will lose all six of the yellow galacts that you bought last month. I could almost cry.


Sounds like a perfectly good reason to cry.


----------



## D3monic

My top beginner mistake, Not drilling the tanks. I should of just grown a pair and drilled it. I was scared that I would crack the tank. Now everyonce in a while I have to manually shopvac down the water level.


----------



## Rmm226

Great stuff is the worst to get off your hands. When I say I covered my hands in it i mean it. Didn't think i needed gloves because i was better than everyone else and it was easier to work with. Well it was a week and a half until i got all of it off and it was a painful method of removal.


----------



## frogfreak

Rmm226 said:


> Great stuff is the worst to get off your hands. When I say I covered my hands in it i mean it. Didn't think i needed gloves because i was better than everyone else and it was easier to work with. Well it was a week and a half until i got all of it off and it was a painful method of removal.


Acetone or nail polish remover will take it off no problem.


----------



## Mitch

Covering my Great Stuff background with silicone using my bear hand, then not getting it off 'till it dried. Good times...


----------



## Steve25

lol when dealing with fruit flies. I thought the white worm like things inside were bugs/mites so I threw a couple of my cultures away. Not realizing those are larvae haha.

Haha. other include GG/ GS on my hands, 

Good times


----------



## tclipse

frogfreak said:


> Acetone or nail polish remover will take it off no problem.


"no" problem


----------



## davecalk

frogfreak said:


> Acetone or nail polish remover will take it off no problem.


Actually acetone / nail polish remover (acetone which smells better and is more expensive) will remove Great Stuff only in it uncured form. Once it sets up and cures fully you are removing skin cells with a kitchen pot scrubby to get it off.


----------



## frogfreak

davecalk said:


> Actually acetone / nail polish remover (acetone which smells better and is more expensive) will remove Great Stuff only in it uncured form. Once it sets up and cures fully you are removing skin cells with a kitchen pot scrubby to get it off.


Ok, let me refrase that. If you gets it on your hands use acetone to remove it while it is still uncured. It works well.

Better? I figured people wouldn't be going to bed with it on their hands. 

The better option would be to wear disposable gloves.


----------



## Mapp

I am still a begginer, and continue to make more stupid mistakes, but the biggest mistake I've made so far is puting a pump in, hiding the wires and tubes, putting in the false bottom, the substrate, and actually plant the tank, and then decide you don't want a water feature. Pretty stupid of me, I know. (I guess my mistake was not making it easily accesable.)


----------



## cin_cindi

I would like to thank everyone who posted on this thread - you saved me untold heartache and grief, and I thank you all. 

I got my first frogs (2 unsexed Cobalts) in April and the only mishap I've had was to have one disappear under the false bottom where I'd very cleverly adhered a drainage tube...little bugger got down in there beside the tube, so I tore some things apart and found him safe and sound...I really don't think he could have gotten OUT of there on his own with nothing to climb...and put it back together again, sans drainage tube. Now we (meaning me and the frogs) would have to move a hefty clump of moss to get access.

Thanks again everyone!


----------



## RarePlantBroker

Three + years and a dozen vivariums later--why am I still making stupid mistakes?

I have a vivarium with a drip wall. When I first tested said drip wall, after one "off cycle" the pump kicked into overdrive when coming back on. I tried to repeat this quirk, and couldn't replicate the issue--and continued to build the tank with the same pump (note: I have a box with 7 other small submersible pumps of various sizes in the garage...).
After totally finishing above vivarium, I moved it into place on my new custom built oak shelves--and plugged in the pump--guess what happened! Suddenly this pump is now rocket-propelling water out of the small vent holes in the front of the Exo-Terra... I shut the pump off and on--no problems, and once again I can't get the problem to replicate.
Fast forward 6 weeks. I've now had my two auratus in the tank for about 10 days. I come home from work today to find water covering the shelf, the "sump" area dry, two light fixtures shorted out (on the shelf below), and a dry drip wall.
Tonights project is no longer doing epoxy work on another new vivarium. I've just finished replacing the light fixtures, and am preparing to catch two green and bronze rockets (if I can coax them out of their newest hiding places), and fishing a pump electrical supply through a piece of pvc--all because I thought that the pump malfunction was "a fluke, and wouldn't happen again".

Moral of the story--if a $10-$12 part isn't working perfectly, throw it out and buy another one--or it may cost a lot more....like your sanity!


----------



## JimO

Mapp said:


> I am still a begginer, and continue to make more stupid mistakes, but the biggest mistake I've made so far is puting a pump in, hiding the wires and tubes, putting in the false bottom, the substrate, and actually plant the tank, and then decide you don't want a water feature. Pretty stupid of me, I know. (I guess my mistake was not making it easily accesable.)


I could be worse I guess - you could have wanted the water feature and forgotten to install the pump. I did that once in an aquarium, rather than a vivarium - I set it up to have a powerhead running behind a nice wall of live rock. Put it together, filled it with water and there was no water current - oops, forgot the powerhead.


----------



## Dendro Dave

I don't know if its already been said, but perhaps the #1 beginner mistake is listening to and accepting advice from people who shouldn't be giving it because they are very new and/or have very little personal experience or verifiable knowledge of the topic....especially when they are attempting to sell you something  

Not to mention ignoring advice from people that clearly have more knowledge and experience then you in favor of your own desires and unfounded personal opinions without honestly and responsibly considering/evaluating their points and your own motivations for wanting to do something anyways. 

I'm not saying the words of such people should be law but before you go against them you should have very valid and logical reasons not to mention contingency plans if things go wrong to limit the risks. IMO


----------



## RarePlantBroker

RarePlantBroker said:


> Three + years and a dozen vivariums later--why am I still making stupid mistakes?
> 
> I have a vivarium with a drip wall. When I first tested said drip wall, after one "off cycle" the pump kicked into overdrive when coming back on. I tried to repeat this quirk, and couldn't replicate the issue--and continued to build the tank with the same pump (note: I have a box with 7 other small submersible pumps of various sizes in the garage...).
> After totally finishing above vivarium, I moved it into place on my new custom built oak shelves--and plugged in the pump--guess what happened! Suddenly this pump is now rocket-propelling water out of the small vent holes in the front of the Exo-Terra... I shut the pump off and on--no problems, and once again I can't get the problem to replicate.
> Fast forward 6 weeks. I've now had my two auratus in the tank for about 10 days. I come home from work today to find water covering the shelf, the "sump" area dry, two light fixtures shorted out (on the shelf below), and a dry drip wall.
> Tonights project is no longer doing epoxy work on another new vivarium. I've just finished replacing the light fixtures, and am preparing to catch two green and bronze rockets (if I can coax them out of their newest hiding places), and fishing a pump electrical supply through a piece of pvc--all because I thought that the pump malfunction was "a fluke, and wouldn't happen again".
> 
> Moral of the story--if a $10-$12 part isn't working perfectly, throw it out and buy another one--or it may cost a lot more....like your sanity!


Slightly off topic, but the vivarium is fixed! I wrangled my wife (and her small, delicate hands) and my son (who has eagle-eye vision from literally hours of playing fast-moving video games) into assisting with this "repair." My son watched the frogs (fortunately there's only two in this vivarium), and my wife reached into the sump and threaded the cord towards the hollow tree I used for my cord and drainage. 

As a side note, I always wondered why there were little holes in the blades of an electrical plug--turns out it is so that you can tie a string through them and thread a plug back through the same hole (at least that's my theory).


----------



## candm519

Went to ask.com re holes in prongs. It seems the answer is up to you.

The Straight Dope: Why are there holes in the prongs of electrical plugs?


----------



## yours

I now know why you shouldn't have full grown MALE leucomelas in your bedroom with you, when you are still trying to sleep.........and to think that I was so EXCITED to hear this 'canary' like call before!!! *eats his words rightly so!* hehehe *may have to postpone the tank lights-on for two more hours in the mornings* 



Alex


----------



## chinoanoah

LoL, I can't trick mine. He seems to be the one making the final judgment as to when it is time to get up.


----------



## VPardoel

Thanks to you guys i've written an ''what not to do when building an viv'' bible 

Tnx to this thread new noobs should build and keep flawless vivs


----------



## Marty71

Can't remember the last time I posted in this thread, but have made plenty of new mistakes since then. Here's my latest additions to the list:

Don't buy frog after frog after frog. Pace yourself. The variables of time, space, and money will all prove to be very unforgiving if you do not heed this warning.

Buy from people you know or people who have spotless references. The frog community is full of good people. Get wired in and give yourself a fighting chance. 

Make real friends. An online community is just that. If you can walk buy somebody in the supermarket and not know who they are then you really aren't part of a community. Pick up the phone, go to a local meet etc...

Seed every single tank with springs and if possible isopods. The more you do to give your frogs multiple food sources the more prepared you will be for the inevitable fruit fly crash. 

Understand your circumstances when you buy frogs. If you are going to college in a year, planning to start a family, possibly moving etc. you may be better served looking at other hobbies.


----------



## Jason

Don't put water spray bottle next to cleaner spray bottle.  It almost turned out real bad.


----------



## frogface

If you've been mucking around in the frog tank, look in the mirror before you go to the grocery store, and wash the clay and bits of moss from your face. 

Don't assume that you are looking good just because everyone is staring at you


----------



## jfehr232

Marty71 said:


> Can't remember the last time I posted in this thread, but have made plenty of new mistakes since then. Here's my latest additions to the list:
> 
> Don't buy frog after frog after frog. Pace yourself. The variables of time, space, and money will all prove to be very unforgiving if you do not heed this warning.
> 
> Buy from people you know or people who have spotless references. The frog community is full of good people. Get wired in and give yourself a fighting chance.
> 
> Make real friends. An online community is just that. If you can walk buy somebody in the supermarket and not know who they are then you really aren't part of a community. Pick up the phone, go to a local meet etc...
> 
> Seed every single tank with springs and if possible isopods. The more you do to give your frogs multiple food sources the more prepared you will be for the inevitable fruit fly crash.
> 
> Understand your circumstances when you buy frogs. If you are going to college in a year, planning to start a family, possibly moving etc. you may be better served looking at other hobbies.


Agree 100% with everything you just said here.


----------



## DartFan

This is a great thread. I haven't started my viv yet, but this makes a checklist of sorts before I begin. Don't feel bad about making mistakes, sometimes they are our best teachers. Especially the expensive ones!


----------



## botanyboy03

Not sure if this is really a mistake or not, but some would think it is, and it would be buying the first few frogs. You think you can stop at just a pair. WRONG. It's an addiction.


----------



## tim13

testing a water feature before anything else is in your viv, then drying out the viv with a towel so you can continue to silicone/GS. then finish the viv, add water, and realize you're pond area under the waterfall is a buble bath because the towel you used to clean the viv had trace amounts of detergent still in it. sigh..... thank god i havent bought frogs yet and wanted to give my tank a month to get going and get springtail/isopods going. anyone know if ph neutralizer will help with the suds?


----------



## Arpeggio

Hydroton balls aren't meant to be mixed with the soil.


----------



## frogface

And when you are looking high and low for someone who sells hydroton, do not walk up to the male manager of your local florist shop and ask him if he has clay balls. 

The look on his face was priceless


----------



## Mitch

Arpeggio said:


> Hydroton balls aren't meant to be mixed with the soil.


Are you saying you forgot a substrate divider? Because hydroton is great to have in viv soil.


----------



## Arpeggio

Yup. I just mixed it straight with the soil. So I had to take the mix out and put a layer of gravel down.


----------



## frogmanchu

well marty play with spray foam no gloves done that..lol! I just want to say that i'm new to the dart frog family got them for my wife and i'm addicted. But i have started my cultures and lucky enough i was able to start culturing springtails in my scorpion tank and bottles them to start other cultures and they have actually started in the frog viv already. i took one culture of bean beetles and fruit flies and made 2 more beetle cultures and 3 more fly cultures. i hope that i'm heading in the right direction. we have pics soon so that i can get advice from the pros


----------



## frogmanchu

wat is hydroton?????????????????????????????


----------



## Scott

LECA (Light expanded clay aggregate).



frogmanchu said:


> wat is hydroton?????????????????????????????


----------



## Golden State Mantellas

This is a great post for noobs and vets alike.


----------



## dfrmav

Here's one that I just had...

If you buy a mistking system and use the timer, and you set some intervals (example: 12:00 PM to 12:00:15 PM), make sure that both times are set to either AM or PM...I just got done siphoning a gallon of water out of my tank because of that little error...unbelievable.


----------



## Steve88W

Azureus tadpoles can appear to be 'dead' when they hatch out of their egg.
Put them into their tadpole cup anyways. Better safe than sorry (and feeling guilty after disposing of them). 

Even after two days, some of my tads appear 'dead' but soon perk up and fatten up.


----------



## tim13

dfrmav said:


> Here's one that I just had...
> 
> If you buy a mistking system and use the timer, and you set some intervals (example: 12:00 PM to 12:00:15 PM), make sure that both times are set to either AM or PM...I just got done siphoning a gallon of water out of my tank because of that little error...unbelievable.


You Sir, have made me terrified of an automatic misting system.


----------



## Muddy_Wizard

- Don't assume that your fans will get much quieter once placed in duct and covered will GS. That annoying sound will force you to tare it apart and start again. (that's why Grimm said he got the quietest he could find)
- GS will not harden if you use too much of it. The outside will and leave you with the GS underneath looking for air until it finds it!


----------



## JimO

It just occurred to me that hydro*ton* does not exactly bring one's mind immediately to *light *expanded clay aggregate.

I have one for you. Don't design a waterfall that drips such that it splashes on the clay background. And, when the resulting soupy clay collapses, don't try to re-apply it unless you let is dry out some. It's like trying to stuff toothpaste back into the tube.


frogmanchu said:


> wat is hydroton?????????????????????????????


----------



## Kirru

dfrmav said:


> Here's one that I just had...
> 
> If you buy a mistking system and use the timer, and you set some intervals (example: 12:00 PM to 12:00:15 PM), make sure that both times are set to either AM or PM...I just got done siphoning a gallon of water out of my tank because of that little error...unbelievable.





tim13 said:


> You Sir, have made me terrified of an automatic misting system.


thanks, i needed to know this.. i am getting mine in tomorrow and glad to know there is an AM/PM setting for me to screw up...


my biggest mistake was taking almost a year to finish the build.. lol


----------



## Percularis

Trying to scrape uncured Great Stuff off acrylic and smearing it plus scratching the acrylic, not knowing it would easily peel off when dry.


----------



## SanduskySerpents

Some cats are *EXTREMELY* smart. They can even use there claws to to rip open the door to a viv while your at work and *EAT* all of your frogs and destroy your plants. Make sure your doors are secure!!!


----------



## LookinRound

SanduskySerpents said:


> Some cats are *EXTREMELY* smart. They can even use there claws to to rip open the door to a viv while your at work and *EAT* all of your frogs and destroy your plants. Make sure your doors are secure!!!


I would love to know of the effect on the cat from this. Was he sick afterwards. Anything abnormal after eating them. What kind of frogs were they? Thank you.


----------



## Teckdragon

My cat did the same thing once. Figure out how to open the latch on my exo terra. Except instead of eating the tree frogs, it chased the crickets all over my house. Now I keep that little combination lock exo terra sells on the tank.


----------



## PantMan

I couple things I learned from my first time using clay.

1) It takes a lot of time to break up clay for substrate. In the future I probably wont break the pieces up as small.

2) for backgrounds go heavy on aggregate and make its as dry the mis is relatively dry (stiff). When the clay gets to too wet it slumps and doesn't hold it shape as well

3) This one was key. Go light on the misting to start. In my haste to make sure brom cups were full of water I ended up saturating the clay which led to the clay slumping and loosing its form. This also led to broms falling from there perch. Patience is the key.


----------



## Mitch

Just a few I've been thinking about lately:
-Sterilize EVERYTHING before it goes in your viv. Hitch hiking pests suck. So does chytrid (Less likely but still a possibility) 
-Don't skimp out on anything - you'll be happier in the long run. Save up if you have to
-Don't use kitty litter in your viv. The stuff is crap and you don't even know what goes into it. It's a risk I took and paid for (see my sig)


----------



## SanduskySerpents

LookinRound said:


> I would love to know of the effect on the cat from this. Was he sick afterwards. Anything abnormal after eating them. What kind of frogs were they? Thank you.


It was a group of azerures. The only way i found out he ate them is i found the bodies in a pile of vomit.


----------



## manicmatt

Wow. This is a great thread. I'm about to set up my first viv and there's so many thing I would have done wrong had I not read this. I'm sure I'll still make my fair share and will be sure to share the community. 

Biggest mistake thus far: "You breed PDFs? Can I see them?" And so the addiction begins. Thanks Chris, like my girlfriend wasn't feeling neglected enough with the reef tank, I'm going to end up single. Haha...ha.. but really.


----------



## kulafu19

Thank you for the guidance. I hope I would not make those mistakes


----------



## Percularis

My biggest mistake: Making my landscape out of Great Stuff instead of using a substrate with a proper drainage system.


----------



## bazza30

i was given a piece of plastic thats used for conservatries, its thick dosent warp and lets the light in very well i would advise it like. its also very light and very strong. ill try get a pic on for ppl to see.


----------



## Mitch

bazza30 said:


> i was given a piece of plastic thats used for conservatries, its thick dosent warp and lets the light in very well i would advise it like. its also very light and very strong. ill try get a pic on for ppl to see.


What? I don't understand what you're talking about and that doesn't sound like a mistake.


----------



## fishr

-Arroganence - as a teen. Probably my biggest mistake is underestimating someone who has been in the same hobby less than you but even though not as long, it doesn't imply the person cannot further your knowledge base. Asking to cite sources is perfectly acceptable.

-Afraid a question was too dumb to ask

-If you do not learn to cross-referance, you're setting yourself up.


----------



## John1451

Another good beginner tip that I saw is put a small piece of fruit in the cage and the small food insects for your darts will cling to it and not stress your frogs by climbing on them....then frogs chow bugs off of fruit!!!


----------



## manicmatt

Not even set up yet and I have a mistake and I'm sure there will be more to come. 

Siliconing pvc supports before putting in the back wall that your constructing on a piece of plastic outside of the tank only to realize that once you have to put the wall in youll need to remove a bunch of supports in order to get it into place. 

Fail. 

Oh, and I know this was stressed on many a post, but holy expansion with the great stuff...wow.


----------



## Teckdragon

manicmatt said:


> Oh, and I know this was stressed on many a post, but holy expansion with the great stuff...wow.


It also shrinks by just as much. This was my mistake. I started carving it almost immediately after it dried only to find that within a couple days it had shrunk in size by almost 40-50% of what it was originally. Had to force a second layer down the back to keep it from falling off.


----------



## Arpeggio

Do a practice run for your tanks before filling them.  To see if the seals are good.


----------



## Mapp

I guess my top mistake was getting ahead of myself.
In the beginning, all I wanted was a simple set up with some nice B&B auratus. I read and read and read for about six or seven months, and then I joined Dendroboard. I still had my mind set on auratus, and I didn't pay much attention to the smaller and flashier species. Until, of course, I saw a thread someone had posted about their new varaderos, and I fell in love. Now I was planning for a pair of imis. About this time I finished my first viv. It was rushed, and looked horrible. 
My probable pair of tarapotos came in july. They did well for the first few months, the male calling almost constantly, until I noticed they weren't eating.
Shortly thereafter they died.
I'm still not sure what caused their death, and there is no way to find out without a proper necropsy, but I'm sure that if I had more experience with larger and hardier frogs, I would have been able to identify the problem and possibly prevent them from dying. 
I'm not saying that Imis and other thumbnails aren't good "beginner" frogs, just that they weren't good beginner frogs for _me_.
Oh, and Imitators weren't the only frog I considered. At one point I wanted pums. And I posted a thread about it, both here and on another forum. As you can imagine, I received some.... eh.... "enthusiastic" responses. I'm still too embarrassed to post on that other forum. And I'm very glad I was talked out of it. After my experience with my imis, I wouldn't trust myself with any pums. 
Right now, I'm planning a 30 gallon viv for those auratus I never got. And maybe a larger display tank in the far future. You should see a build thread from me soon! :]
Sorry for the illegible jumble of thoughts I call a post, 
-Matt


----------



## Conman3880

Beginner mistake?

Never getting into tincs.

I've been in the hobby for, jeez, 4 years now and I never wanted tincs. They were too common, too boring, too aggressive, etc.

I got a pair of Patricias a couple weeks ago, and now they're my favorite frogs I've ever had (out of auratus, tricolors, galacts, imis and pums), both aesthetically and personality-wise. I've actually had my female eat waxworms out of my hand. Also, it's a nice change of pace to be able to SEE the frogs in my display tank.


----------



## MorningDew

This thread was hilarious! Hopefully I learned a little....VERY new to this (only have been researching for a couple weeks) Looking to build a viv for a couple anoles and some fish to start. My mistake already, Really so I can't just silicone plexi glass to split the take in half and put substrate and plants on the other side.... So glad I didn't jump into this and found this thread!!!


----------



## ryank458

Fun post. Thanks!


----------



## JakkBauer

frogface said:


> When dealing with fruit flies, be sure to put your hair in a ponytail *before* you take off the lid and lean over the container.


----------



## FoxHound

Thanks alot for this post!  I'll be sure to read over it again and again I'm sure. Glad to be here and I can't wait to get going! Wish me luck!


----------



## MandysMaze

Wow, A lot of information here!  Thank you so much! I will be sure to post mine! LOL


----------



## B-NICE

One of the post in this thread is actually funny. It had me crying @ work.


----------



## deinolf

i've been having problems with mold too, and was worried it might be dangerous. i'm not sure what is causing it, or how to prevent it, but glad to hear it's not dangerous.


----------



## tclipse

Looking back, one mistake I made was buying 10G verts for thumbnails instead of 20G verts or larger. 

It might just be me, but from a boldness standpoint, frogs seem to tolerate plant trimming/egg pulling better in larger tanks with more space to run/places to hide. My breeding pairs that are in 12x12x18's are much more skittish than when they started breeding, those in larger tanks have been less affected.


----------



## Niels D

Thinking a few escaped bean weevils can't do any harm only to discover that they've found your supply of black eyed peas in your kitchen a little bit too late.


----------



## B-NICE

deinolf said:


> i've been having problems with mold too, and was worried it might be dangerous. i'm not sure what is causing it, or how to prevent it, but glad to hear it's not dangerous.


It comes when your viv is established. Its not, its all natural.


----------



## lapidsilver

These are more my experiences than mistakes, but some people might find them helpful:

1. My first tank had a water feature; never again! Too much splashing and way too much space taken up with water. My 20 extra high was about the size of a ten gallon after all the space required to elevate the pump out of the water, and make sure the soil wasn't saturated. 

2. Make drain holes!! I spend about 30 minutes vacuuming water out of my tanks. Drilling tanks is not difficult. I wish I hadn't been so nervous about doing that from the beginning. It takes all of 10 seconds to open a drain valve on my new drilled tanks.

3. Make more fruit flies than what you need, and make them weekly. It will never hurt to have too many flies! Mite paper is great too!

4. If you ever think you will need to move your tanks make false bottoms instead of using hydroton. It is a whole lot lighter, and your back will thank you.

5. A misting system has made my life much easier.


-Andrew


----------



## evolvstlldartfrogs

Very funny! I wish I wasn't nodding my head with at least half of those...


----------



## ezjase

Great thread for newbies, lots of great info......


----------



## Mitch

B-NICE said:


> It comes when your viv is established. Its not, its all natural.


Actually, mold tends to go away when the tank become established. It's when the tank is new and hasn't matured that it grows.


----------



## LarryLee

welll..... 
IM glad I read all these first...... I have just began with my 45-55 gal corner tank.. i resealed it several months ago and have been working up a design... want it simple, no water feature, and I think i will build a removable back ground incase I fail as a vivarium frog keeper.... there are so many varieties of frogs im not sure what type yet.. 
I have had various terrariums and have kept a few tree frogs.....this is new.
My advice as a newbie is do tons of research...ive been researching for the last couple of years.......
Still cant make up my mind on what frogs....
Larry


----------



## bratyboy2

this was the high light of my day!!!! i dont think i have ever laughed this much


----------



## B-NICE

LarryLee said:


> welll.....
> IM glad I read all these first...... I have just began with my 45-55 gal corner tank.. i resealed it several months ago and have been working up a design... want it simple, no water feature, and I think i will build a removable back ground incase I fail as a vivarium frog keeper.... there are so many varieties of frogs im not sure what type yet..
> I have had various terrariums and have kept a few tree frogs.....this is new.
> My advice as a newbie is do tons of research...ive been researching for the last couple of years.......
> Still cant make up my mind on what frogs....
> Larry


No more tree frogs for me! They have different requirements than Darts, and I have not been successful.


----------



## Jguy2020

nice. done them all too


----------



## Noort

Thanks to you all for writing this!

I'm not very good at making lists, but I've done some extremely stupid things as well:

I've been building backgrounds in my aquaria for years, so a lot of mistakes are made in that period: like getting the 2:1 mix-in amounts for my resin the wrong way and almost burnt my hands! Plain luck it happenend in a glas container that actually tolerated the extreme temperature. It only cracked *after* the stuf was hard enough not to leak everywhere.


Back-up tanks... have MULTIPLE!! (really , I am not kidding) 
I absoluely *had* to get my first trio of pumilio before their designated tank was complete* (I broke a door and was waiting for the supplier) but -no sweat: I had a back-up all ready to receive them- which I broke the very day I got the pums home .
Needless to say they didn't take kindly to the improvised back-up-back-up one...
(that was a couple of years ago and I am still kicking myself).

My leuco's are more forgiving 

*judging those now-or-never deals are a pain: I've wanted to keep pumilio since the moment I discovered they were on the planet and there was this nice man who was downseizing his collection and had a confirmed breeding trio of my ultimate favorite ones...

(the only comfort I have is that they already had reproduced)

Converted a chameleontank to house my pums (second time): a lovely piece of work, and for once I didn't screw up the build! 
(Overplanned like mad, second guessing myself every step, it took forever!)
It was my first tank that didn't start out as an aquarium, so I wasn't prepared for the relative flimsiness of the glass resulting in vulnerable seams!!
Not sure what happenend (prolly a see-saw move when I dit some work next to it) but -as tradion demands it- everything went perfect up to the point my pums were nestled in, starting to call and THEN I woke to the sound of a slow drip-drip-dripping ...

I still have to fix it/ probably have to tear it apart ->it hurts. 
(I really loved the way it turned out and functioned)
The 'back up tank' isn't pretty at all.

=> never put a tank where is isn't protected from forces it isn't built to withstand

And of course: buy a very large tank that you can't get into your house!

I measured everything a dozen times, decided *not* to buy it, but then a friend told me it would fit -> and I believed him! 
(Whisfull thinking and to much selfdoubt?? Lethal combination!)
He doesn't even live in this building!!
So I ended up buying it anyway, got stuck (stairs) and had to revert to breaking the viv down to pieces (shattering panes etc.in the process) and am still re-assembling to this day ...


----------



## Vincebus

Thanks all for writing this, i've built a couple (rank) amateur  terrariums/vivariums and have made many mistakes over the last couple of years, always remember to: 

measure twice and cut once on the critical measurements. 

Avoid impulse buying, just because it would "look soo cool in my tank". Looking cool and working/surviving in the tank are two totally different scinarios. Remember the old saying "look before you leap"? 

Never asume your children and their buddies won't open up the tank out of curiosity while your not around and leave the door/lid open when they're done. So your beautiful and possibly un-nerving inhabitants can take a nice vacation from the enclosure to taunt house members that may not necessarily like a tarantula or other (insert critter name here _______) coming over for a visit, or causing an hour long freak-out looking for them... Lock up your tanks if at all possible. 

(We also have a neighbors kid that we have to watch like a hawk since she likes to "borrow" animals/critters (I was gonna bring it back...)). We're still missing a hamster to this day and I just have a hunch that this is most likely what happened, R.I.P. Sandy Cheeks, ugh... Funny cause, she was missing and the cage door wasn't open, nice of whomever took her to close the door so the fluff wouldn't get out. 

if your children have critters that they like to handle, make sure that whomever does the wash checks underneath collars and whatnot for hitch-hiking critters going to the washer machine, they don't fare well in there and usually don't survive the whirlpool effect, glub glub... 

sorry if I repeated anything that might have already been mentioned, I'm sure i'm not the only person here in the forum with kids. These are just a few that i've learned over my lifetime of keeping critters in the house.


----------



## SWReptiles

Great post I picked up a few good things


----------



## WildcatWalker

My #1 mistake was when applying my eco earth mix to the background. I was impatient and applied the mix while it was still a little moist. Black aquarium safe silicone can get costly. Lesson Learned


----------



## SWReptiles

Has anyone here ever used clear polycarbonate for a top? I have some pieces that are about 1/4 thick. They say it does not warp. Cheaper and easier to work with then glass. It looks a lot a corrugated type material


----------



## traderumors

Wow, 23 pages. Apologize if this is a repeat. I'd suggest that underestimating the cost of doing up a "fancy" viv is a big mistake. I thought paying $80 for a terrarium was the biggest part of the investment, but I've easily spent more than that in silicone, peat moss, driftwood, screen, and substrate. And have yet to even buy any plants or tads!


----------



## frogface

After GSing my newest tank, going back for a quick touch-up and figuring 'I don't really need gloves for this little bit', lol.


----------



## yumyow

It's a good thing i looked at this thread before i started my viv build. Saved me many headaches


----------



## phaz3boy

Adding three diffrent types of vining plants !! not knowing fully of the species.
now i know Should of did more reaserch
creeping fig
lipstick fine
fern


----------



## krysty

I had a very difficult time when I was beginner, and I think it happened with most of us.


----------



## Froggywv

I'd say over planting was my biggest mistake. Not planting the tank and giving it time to grow in before I put the frogs in and expecting it to look good NOW. 

African violets do great in vivs, but in BIG vivs, NOT 20 gal long tanks with minimal head room... Now I've gotta rip that sucker out and its roots are all the way into the false bottom... fun...

Also, not getting the ff cultures down before getting frogs. MANY crashes later, its finally a routine. Make 2 cultures a week, even if you have to throw them away, its WORTH it... Oh, and hydei take FOREVER to grow. If that's all your feeding, plan it out!! 
Hmm, what else... oh, going overboard buying frogs in the beginning, AND believing someone local instead of doing the research online. Believing that local guy that said, here, take these healthy wild caught adult frogs that I got from this shady deal... They'll be fine and they are courting... NOT...


----------



## Adventure King

#1 Make sure you have all, and I mean ALL the supplies you are going to use before you even take one step towards that shiny new tank that you got for 70% off on ebay. 

#2 If you are building a custom light box for that awesome, but weirdly shaped, tank, make sure you have the proper tools to fabricate that box out of wood. As good as it may seem, using a hacksaw to cut through plywood is not a good idea.

#3 If you're like me and you're broke (I wonder why), you probably have opted out of having a misting system, which means you are manually misting each of the some 4,000 tanks you have in your bedroom. Make sure you have a backup mister or two that have already sat for a while and been purged of nasties.

Or you could go with RO water, which costs more money.


----------



## mrzoggs

RO water is cheaper for me. $.25 per gallon vs $1.00 per gallon of anything bottled at the store.


----------



## Adventure King

Oh, here's another one. Don't silicone things over a carpeted surface. If you already did this, like I did, make sure you pierce the film underneath the cap (rather than pump the handle as hard as you can, resulting in the film bursting under the pressure and a huge silicon explosion, all over the carpet that you shouldn't have been working over anyways). If you haven't, and you now have black silicon gracing the carpet with it's presence, JUST WALK AWAY AND LET IT DRY. Don't even look back as you walk out of the room. Once it dries you can peel/cut it off, leaving perhaps slightly less carpet, which is way better than the alternative.

I did the wrong thing for every single one of these, which meant that I had a black smear across a light colored carpet. It was a bad day.


----------



## herplover

I have done all of these at least 3 times in the first 5 months of learning.


----------



## reptiles12

I had a really bad mistake, when setting up my first two tanks I put the Filters in the tank then dumped dirt then hydro balls for both tanks... After I set all the plants up and everything I realized I was an idiot and tore down my tanks haha


----------



## Taari

Marty71 said:


> 10. Great stuff without gloves. Knew I was screwed when I checked the label on how to get it off, and all I could find was the huge warning "Wear gloves".


I didn't wear gloves when I used the foam (not greatstuff brand, but same thing), and the only place I got it was on the back of my left forearm. The directions on my can said you can remove uncured foam with acetone nail polish remover, but don't use it on cured foam. Cured foam will wear off over time and is not harmfull. Either way, on the back of my arm, gloves wouldn't have helped >.>


----------



## Taari

Just wanted to add, it if hadn't been for this thread, i'd be panicing this morning. I think my little male frog is shedding his skin, so I've had him 2 days and the first day he wasn't really eating (I think because he was just kind of freaked out at having been moved around so much), then the second day he ate all the flies in his QT shoebox, and this morning I fed him again and he's not eating them, but I notice him huddled under a tilandsia opening and closing his mouth and blinking and rubbing his arms over his head. 

If I hadn't read in the OP that that's just skin shedding, I'd be freaking out right now.


----------



## RobbieR113

Great post. Great info! Thanks, Marty!


----------



## topart

Most of us new folks make all of these mistakes. It's great to have friends on the board that not only sell great frogs but give lots of free advise on vivariums, plants and frogs. I think being impatient may be the BIGGEST error everyone makes


----------



## WendySHall

topart said:


> I think being impatient may be the BIGGEST error everyone makes


That was actually my biggest mistake as a beginner. Seeing the frogs that I wanted and buying from people (sadly yes, more than 1) with a less than stellar reputation. If you've heard something bad about someone, there is more than likely at least 10 times that amount of bad things you haven't heard yet.

Take your time and wait. It will save you lots of heartache.


----------



## Blk

So glad there were so many posts to this thread. Very good info!


----------



## lhu659982

Just to name a few of my mistakes:

1. If Hydei get into a Melano Culture you will end up with a great mixture of big and small flies. It gets to be a pain in the rear when you need to feed small mouths and have to pick out the melanos from the mix. 
2. Oh, they're in there they just haven't surfaced in like a week... Had a tank with 5 leucs in it and only saw 2 after a about a week. I went through the process of tearing it apart making sure to look under leaves and everything very carefully for "spidey frogs". Realized two of the slots for cords on the top of the tank were open... That was about 4 months ago, and while I was rearranging the room I have found 2 of the missing 3. Little shriveled yellow and black mummies.  
3. Nobody knows exactly how you feed/water your frogs. Remember that when you want to vacation. You will not have a good time if you get calls on how to do things. 
4. Nobody knows exactly how your frogs react when tank doors are open. Remember that when you want to vacation.... Ninja frogs realize you are gone and the guards are less vigilant. This leads to more mummies on the floor and blame put on someone who didn't know they were gonna try to escape. 
***Note I have only lost 5 frogs to escapes***
5. "I've got plenty of room for my tanks"... Yep for your tanks you want to buy now... what about the next purchase and the next. Oh and don't forget about feeders, they need space to. Make sure you have a most of a whole room open if you want to keep multiple non-mixed tanks of frogs. 
6. If you have small frogs they eat small food. When those frogs grow they eat big food. My Whites Tree Frogs are 2 years old now. They are fat f**ks pardon my language I love those guys and gals. But in college when they start to eat adult crickets and you live in a house with one room for yourself and no closet... "your gonna have a bad time." Those crickets lovveeeeeee to chirp. and chirp. and chirp. and chirp. And they never stop. So unless you want to sit next to them and hit the container they are in every couple minutes to shut them up I suggest you find a nice spot for them where they won't bother anyone. Oh and I found that crickets use their wings to chirp... and chirp and chirp... It got so bad when I had to study that I would sit and watch for the chirpers... when I found them I would either pick them up and put them in the thunderdome aka my tank of Whites or I would use surgical scissors and tweezers to rid them of their wings. Wouldn't hurt them, just shut them up. 
Okay sorry about the length of that one. You can tell how much it bothered me. 
7. Yeah matter how well you seal your substrate layer off from the false bottom, chances are a frog will make its way through to the bottom. Same Leucs as mentioned before just got them and put them into there nice new home... couple minutes later two happy little froglets were jumping around in the water under my egg crate... little buggers. I couldn't be mad at them because they are so cute. 
8. Until you have a solid process for making fruit fly cultures make sure you can get internet access and can either order flies from online or venture to a pet store to buy their price gouged tubes of 20 live or 100 dead/10 live fruit flies. 
9. Unless you are going to be home enough to turn the lights on and off everyday try to get a surge protector with a built in timer. Makes life easier than having to turn on and off all your lights all the time. 
10. Frogging is really a patience hobby. And you won't always get it right but once you do, very seldom will you make the same mistake again. You never realize how saddening it is to lose a frog until it happens. But it happens. Plain and simple, all we can do is prepare as much as we can and wait to see what happens. We can only control so much, and the frogs have egotistical, maniacal, plan-plotting little minds of their own. 

Okay that's it. Thanks for listening and look forward to seeing others share as well. So I don't feel as horrible.


----------



## LordHollis

I now know what not to do thanks for this!! 10/10


----------



## Dendro Dave

LordHollis said:


> I now know what not to do thanks for this!! 10/10


...and Knowing is half the battle!










Perhaps we should substitute "Frogs" for "Lasers"


----------



## that Frog Guy

Dendro Dave said:


> ...and Knowing is half the battle!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps we should substitute "Frogs" for "Lasers"


LOL. Funny. Yo Joe


----------



## Los3r

My biggest mistakes so far are 1. Building a viv before researching the frogs I wanted. 2. If you're the kind of person that has trouble sitting still, make sure you check your gloves for holes before you continue working with the foam. Took forever to get that stuff off my fingertips


----------



## frogs are cool

The number one mistake i made when starting out was purchasing frogs at a reptile show that were so cheap it was insane. You get what you pay for. The price of the frogs reflect not only the type of frog your getting but also all the hours of work it took to get that frog to that age ootw. A healthy frog is a happy frog!


----------



## Boboluke

So far I have had a few mistakes, but the only one that was a real problem was when I accidentally dropped a largish book.

That may seem like no big deal, but it landed on a FF culture. It blew the lid off the cup and shot flies everywhere! At least I now know how to make a fly bomb.


----------



## Boboluke

Big mistake on build #2.

Someone is going to get upset if you grab that nice big mixing bowl from the kitchen and start pouring titebond into it!


----------



## Dendro Dave

Boboluke said:


> Big mistake on build #2.
> 
> Someone is going to get upset if you grab that nice big mixing bowl from the kitchen and start pouring titebond into it!


Mine has a oyapock tadpole living in it 
*
On a side note:*
I did do something stupid awhile back...
I took an ambien when I was about to go to bed, realized I hadn't checked the mail that day so walked down to the boxes and came back with some seeds. It is a little blurry but I remember putting some seeds in the aurotaenia tank just before bed, and then the next day or 2 realized I was short a frog...So, apparently one springboarded off the plant in the front right corner and out of the tank without me seeing it happen or hearing it land. 

*So lesson learned, do not even approach the tank when you have potentially diminished capacity*


----------



## zachxbass

Dendro Dave said:


> Mine has a oyapock tadpole living in it
> *
> On a side note:*
> I did do something stupid awhile back...
> I took an ambien when I was about to go to bed, realized I hadn't checked the mail that day so walked down to the boxes and came back with some seeds. It is a little blurry but I remember putting some seeds in the aurotaenia tank just before bed, and then the next day or 2 realized I was short a frog...So, apparently one springboarded off the plant in the front right corner and out of the tank without me seeing it happen or hearing it land.
> 
> *So lesson learned, do not even approach the tank when you have potentially diminished capacity*


I've done crazy stuff on ambien when I was on it. If I didn't go to sleep right away id get wired up instead. One night I cleaned out my fridge, organized my bookmarks on the computer, washed dishes, and cleaned the kitchen... barely remember it. At least I was productive.

Sorry for the hijack

Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk 2


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## Dendro Dave

zachxbass said:


> I've done crazy stuff on ambien when I was on it. If I didn't go to sleep right away id get wired up instead. One night I cleaned out my fridge, organized my bookmarks on the computer, washed dishes, and cleaned the kitchen... barely remember it. At least I was productive.
> 
> Sorry for the hijack
> 
> Sent from my C5155 using Tapatalk 2


Uh ya, tell me about it. The other night I took 2 because seemed like the first one wasn't working...apparently it just took a little longer to kick in. 

I have no memory of what happened, but there were cookies all over my desk, my good milk sitting on the floor by the fridge, an open sour milk half carton, and a glass of curdled milk on my desk...I hope I didn't eat sour milk and cookies  My breath/taste in my mouth was fine and I felt fine when I woke up...I actually didn't even sleep as long as I usually do. Once I do manage to fall asleep I'm usually out for 9-10 hours minimum...often 12 and that is no meds, not even being up 14 hours the day before usually (I sleep a lot, always have). It is just hard for me to shut down my brain once it finally gets fired up that day and get to sleep, which is why I got the ambien.

And I'm almost positive I actually went to bed before all that, and I woke up in bed...so I guess I got up did all that, and then went back to bed, but it is a complete blank. I had a little fuzziness when I first got on ambien but nothing like the other night (This was a first). Usually I just get sleepy and go to bed but *we hit a whole new level of strange that night *

I totally panicked the next day because I've been enjoying the new benedicta, but I lost that aurotaenia thanks to screwing with the tank while on ambien, so I was freaking out that I had been all over my new frogs while in some walking coma...but if i was, I guess I had my $#^* together because they were all in there.

*So I've got mucho respect for that stuff now *


----------



## Minkey

Rinse hydrotron before adding water to your 55 gallon viv. Filters don't really work on black water and it only makes it a tad harder to carry outside to dump...
Don't rehydrate coco fiber on white sheets.
plug in timers go off for a minimum of half an hour. (My mister had my tank looking like a scene out of cheech and chong when I got home)
oh, and no matter how still your frogs look, they will jump out of the cage the second you look away.


----------



## Kadjec

This post is great. It's nice to have a place to read about mistakes before you make them or read after you have made them and not feel soooo stupid.

Two of the many I have made:

It is great to leave a space for the waterfall pump, but make sure your hand can fit thru it. The first one I ever made, I didn't consider the size. Also when going on vacation and thinking you have explained everything and written it up, you will come back and realize you missed explaining at least one thing.


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## marwyn

Haha as a complete noob with my first two darts this was a great read. Thank you : )


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## IROCthisZ28

I am a new member looking to learn about setting up a dart tank, and thought I would share my GS experience since it seems to be a common issue.

As I saw someone stated, if it does NOT come out normally, don't think your MacGyver idea will make it work any better. Chances are your one bottle you thought would finish the product is a dud. And you should have bought two. Oh, and uh, wear gloves... I tried to push something into the hole and as it shot out, it also shot directly up and into my eyes and face. I swear if it was recorded it would have been a hit on youtube.


----------



## RBarsati

I love this post. I printed it and its posted by my vivs.


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## LexisaurusRex

Totally agree with the gloves! I couldn't get GS to stick to glass when it was vertical and it kept falling off so I just picked up a chunk with my hand and smeared it on..... Then realized it doesn't wash off.... Haha I now know acetone is supposed to get off GS if you get it before it dries. A video of your "incident" would have been awesome IROC!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## IROCthisZ28

The acetone has to be IMMEDIATELY afterwards and even then it doesn't get it 100% off. I used some gasoline I had but that is not fun when you have cuts you didn't know about.


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## dartgirl66

Oh thanks for the giggles. Can relate to a lot of these.... 

We had issues with the flies as well, feast or famine. We found rapashy superfly & containers and it's been good since. So much easier than the potato mix thing & mason jars.


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## Rseb1203

My mistake. Overplanting. Been putting way too many plants in this first few months. Needless to say many of them have been taken out/taken over. Next biggest mistake are FF cultures. Still trying to get this down. It's like rocket science to me. Thankfully I have a close friend who I "borrow" from


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## Supernova26

Guys this has been a fantastic thread to read. I went back and found 3 big deal fixes I needed to make on my vivarium. Thank you


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## mirageknight

Funny, and true. Wasn't until I went to put my brand new Chazutas (thanks gary1218!) in their new home that I spied some obvious ****** in the back wall. Stuffed them quick with sphagnum. (the holes, not the frogs!)


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## Steve25

Through the last few years I would say my top beginner mistakes would be:

*Applying eco-earth dirt/fiber to a GS silicon background being too wet
*Over planting in the beginning and re-arranging multiple times.
*Not researching enough on which plants should be located where in the tank (different plants need different light requirements)
*Having FF cultures not blooming enough and needed to run to petco for extra FF's.
*Over-spraying the plants with water thus wilting some.
*When dusting flies in a cup, accidently tipping over the flies and having to clean them up.
*Make sure to have a spare tank, or preferably a 10g kit for emergencies.
*Getting too excited about the live moss, and eventually it dies.
*Getting worried on why I don't see a specific frog for 1 day. Just relax and you will see it if your husbandry and your tank is setup correctly.


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## Hazel_Scum134

Thanks for this post. I'm a noob to DF's, but been into herps for a long time. Pretty sure you guys just saved my arse a few times, as well as my frogs.

We thank you!!

-HS


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## latieplolo

jgibeau said:


> Jennifer found me literally crying in the bedroom about an hour later. She said "If you don't die, I will kill you myself. Idiot."


Hahahaha- that's exactly how I found my boyfriend one day when he accidentally wiped his eyes after cooking with fresh peppers. The poor thing had been frantically googling cures and pouring different liquids in his face for about 20 minutes.

I haven't set up my new vivarium yet, but I made plenty of these mistakes with my hermit crabs.

1. Cats can always figure out a way to get into the tank, no matter how well you think it's sealed. Good thing my kitten just wants to sit somewhere warm and wasn't hungry for seafood! So many times I woke up in the middle of the night and came downstairs to find her sitting there in the warm sand while my crabs were making a break for freedom.

2. Rabbits can always figure out how to get into the tank, no matter how sure you are that a rabbit wants nothing to do with hermit crabs. I came home one day to Sand-aggedon. Hermit crabs aren't that imaginative, but they must have recognized the End of Days when it happened.

3. No matter how many layers of silicone you put on or how water tight it looks, that beautiful new water feature is probably full of holes. Check, double check, and triple check.

4. Just because you wore gloves when applying silicone doesn't mean you can pick up the empty bottle after you take them off. Woops!

5. Just because an animal isn't moving, doesn't mean it's dead. I once put a "dead" hermit in a plastic bag and forgot about it overnight. The next morning the poor thing was walking around naked inside the bag. Good thing I forgot to throw it out!

6. Aquatic frogs also escape. When I was a kid, we came downstairs one morning to find our aquatic frog had simply disappeared. It was AWOL until late that night when my mom found it all the way in the basement, covered in lint twice its size but still alive. What an adventure!


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## ilmorescue

Glad to hear everyone makes mistakes - not just me. : )


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## Jeremy M

latieplolo said:


> 3. No matter how many layers of silicone you put on or how water tight it looks, that beautiful new water feature is probably full of holes. Check, double check, and triple check.


Silicone actually doesn't adhere to itself, so any type of "layering" isn't going to do any good unless you cover the old layer entirely and touch all the borders around the last layer-- but that's extremely inefficient and nowhere near as good as just one thick layer. This also goes for siliconing separate parts of a water feature and letting it dry before you move on- it has to all be done in one go. I would be surprised to think that this hasn't been the source of many a leaky water feature.


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## latieplolo

7. Silicone doesn't adhere to itself.


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## p51mustang23

Inhaling silicone doesn't hurt your lungs right away. But the next day you will wake up feeling a little raspy. 

Once you get going, the spending on materials can snowball pretty fast.


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## wak4863

I'm in this unfortunate position now. 



Boondoggle said:


> Always get as much info as you can about the heritage of any frogs you buy at the time of purchase. You may be in love with the suckers and not care a wit about where they come from, but when they start throwing froglets you're going to be asked specific questions from potential buyers. Going back to the one who sold them to you two years later is not always fruitful.


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## Exasperatus2002

Great thread!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## ZenMonkey

As a related issue to the "careful where you get your frogs," my hugest mistake was trusting the guy who sold them to me to give me good advice on husbandry. He was someone I'd worked with before on jellies, and was very good, so I naively trusted him to build me a viv and teach me how to keep darts. I'd already read some books but they didn't go into the detail that he did, so I was dumb enough to think he knew what he was doing.

Very long story short, he built a craptastic viv and gave me advice like "Just come here once a month for fruit flies" and "You don't need springtails in your viv, they'll just die." 

Thankfully I very quickly acquired far better info on the forums, but a year later I'm building my own viv for my auratus trio to replace the mess that I fixed up as best I could. He sold the frogs to me at 3mos OOW for an outrageous price, and I strongly suspect now that his supplier is DFC. 

The happy and most important thing is that they've grown into wonderful, active, healthy frogs that breed like rabbits. Of course I attribute this to the help I received on the forums, as well as my successful melanogaster and springtail cultures.


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## Enlightened Rogue

Study the Vendor Feedback. No matter what you`re looking for you will find someone selling it there.
Try not to buy anything from someone you don`t have some sort of relationship with here.
If you`re not sure about a certain person shoot someone you know a pm and ask them.
I do all my business with 3-4 people here who I know I can trust

I`ve never been ripped off here by doing the above...never


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## Ctoliva

This is all so helpful.


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## jdawud

Still totally a beginner at dart frogs. I've kept a few small reptiles and fire belly toads before though. I just finished rebuilding my 18x18x24 that will soon house 3-4 leucomelas. I'm just starting to build a 5.5g quarantine tank with some spare materials. It should be pretty nice for a gr tank! 

1. Building the terrarium THEN deciding to put frogs in there.
2. Not sterilizing my plants properly the first time around.
3. Freaking out when I saw mold.
4. Keeping my airplants too wet.
5. Not planning things out well in advance and then adding stuff kind of hodge podge.
6. Laying things out too flat without enough sloping, branches, shelves and such.
7. Packing in lots of plants rather than selecting where to put what and then just letting things grow out a bit.
8. Boiling my nice flat cork background instead of baking &/ spraying it to sterilize it. It warped so bad I had to break and saw the pieces into a bunch of pieces that I ended up doing more of a mosaic thing with it.
9. Buying crappy stuff before thinking it through, like a dial thermometer that thoroughly sucked. Lately I've actually been using a digital heat probe to take the temp at various spots in the tank. 
10. Sort of relates to #1 but, not finding dendroboards and reading tons of old threads before building my tank the first time. After deciding that we wanted to do some leucomelas in there I found this site. I read and learned a bunch of stuff and felt I could do a much better job after soaking in some great info. My new tank is looking great now! I just need to dial in a few things and it'll be ready to house the cute little buggers! So thanks dendroboarders!


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## Ben689

Yup! Did the same mistakes. I want to add some base on xp
1. Sprayed foam on background then covering it with drylok, the foam shrunk!. had to do it again, wasted 2 cans of foam.
2. Putting silicone over smooth foam, silicone started to detach after 2 weeks. I read from a topic here that you need to sand the smooth surface of foam then put the silicone. 

Well, I learned from my mistakes.


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## casemodgod

Ben689 said:


> Yup! Did the same mistakes. I want to add some base on xp
> 1. Sprayed foam on background then covering it with drylok, the foam shrunk!. had to do it again, wasted 2 cans of foam.
> 2. Putting silicone over smooth foam, silicone started to detach after 2 weeks. I read from a topic here that you need to sand the smooth surface of foam then put the silicone.
> 
> Well, I learned from my mistakes.


It'll stick w/o the sanding, but opening up the pores of the foam helps to keep it all rooted in better so to speak. Least thats my experience. BRB, gotta put some Titebond over those bare spots 

My biggest mistake so far. I wanted a waterfall, I was determined to put one in. 

By "in" I mean a box, because I'll be damned if I just couldn't figure out how I wanted to do it. 

Next tank will have one though, I mean, I already have the tank, and the waterfall, so....20L waterfall feature in 6 months.

My biggest obstacle is going to be the plants, without a doubt. If its green, I've murdered it gracefully with over watering, under watering, pushing it on to the floor on accident and stepping on it, you name it, I've pretty much shafted every plant I ever planted. So, wish me luck


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## k5MOW

This post is very informative thank you for this great post. 

Roger


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## ThomasMartens

sorry to bump up this old thread, it is way to good to be forgotten 
this is my live story about my exotic pets in short
When i was a kid my mom allowed me to buy ONE baby tarantula after a long time of begging. that is all i wanted i thought....
one year later i own a dozen tarantulas, multiple mantis, anolis, beared dragons and a chameleon.
not long after that i had to sell all of my animals due to a big move to another continent.
couple years later my sister wants a panther chameleon and asks me for advice, I get pumped up and the story repeads. i ask my mom for ONE chameleon which was granted after discussion. couple months later we have the chameleon, crested geckos a ball python a scorpion and a bunch of dart frogs. and of course all the nessesary feeder animals.
lesson #1 for me in this case is that no matter how much i want that ONE animal, it wont stay that way!!!


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## The Dread Pirate Roberts

What a great list for beginners! 

I'm getting back into the hobby now after about 10 years out. It's come a long way- more information, healthier specimens, more available species, and a load of hobby and professional breeders to learn and purchase from.

My only hiccup so far has been a little mold on some substrate in both my tinc and leuc vivaria, but it sounds like this is nothing to be too concerned about! 

Thanks!


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## K3viin128

Haha this is a fantastic post.. I caught my self numerous times saying yupp that was me yupp that was me.... ??


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## Wy Renegade

Great thread! I've found that isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol works pretty well on the foam, if you get it before it dries.

Couple I would add;

1. wearing good clothes when foaming - it never "wears" out of clothing.

2. expecting silicon to truly seal a water feature long term - regardless of how well you seal it to begin with, eventually they all seem to fail.


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## Auratus4Ever

Grape wood will never stop molding. Ghost wood is a better bet. It looks great when moss starts growing on it. Also, don't forget to add springtails!


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## Telly80

My biggest mistake so far:

Designing a viv without a good place to put a feeding area! There are no horizontal surfaces in the front, so I have to reach in to the back of the tank, providing plenty of chances for my tiny tarapotos to jump out!


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## Lukehartung99

Hahaha I wasted hours and hours with plexiglass and am still bothered by that mistake, and I had great stuff on my nails until they grew out! its funny to be able to relate to this but also take note on other things to avoid as I am in my final stage before purchasing the frogs.


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## mark c

I bought a couple of pumilio, of a rare locale which no one else has... because no one else has them. They were two females. I tried to buy a calling male, and that turned out to be another female. Then the locale completely faded from the hobby, at least in the US, and now I'm stuck with a dead end morph that is quite shy. Luckily they all get along quite well for three old maids.


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## AuroraK

My number one mistake was not getting the rhythm of fruit fly cultures down. So this meant I got close to running out and got new cultures repeatedly , so the frogs always had enough because I just kept buying new flies and starting more cultures. But then I overcompensated all the sudden I found myself with over a dozen *booming* cultures for three thumbs. My husband was not pleased...


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## ruairidh_

I'm going to bump this, what a great thread xD 

My own mistake with the vivarium for my crestie is adding a waterfall. Why the hell did past self think it was a good idea to add a waterfall... For a crestie... Wtf?... Stupid boy... That waterfall is now filled in and that tank is now ready to be ripped apart and redone. Lesson learned lol 

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## Eiffel70

Yup, I’m going to necro-post since I know for a fact that many people have made mistakes/learned lessons since the last post. Here’s my contribution...

Make sure the silicone you use is not old, and is the right kind. Make sure you buy the SAME one and that you test a small patch if in doubt. If it’s old or is the wrong type, and you coco/peat moss it, it may not stick correctly and you will find your self redoing the whole thing. Oh, and by redoing I mean having to carve the old silicone out from the foam. Old silicone and new silicone don’t adhere to each other so well. Also, white silicone is a no-no. Why? Because when the coco falls off (and it will), you will have nasty white patches everywhere. Ugh... I could write a dang book, so I’ll stop here. 

Hopefully some others will post their mistakes/lessons learned so newbies like myself don’t reinvent the wheel.


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## JimM

I'm happy to say that after a fairly complex first build and healthy frogs and great plant growth - I made no mistakes.

However the beginner mistake that I might be in the middle of right now is mis-timing my fruit fly production. Time will tell - but I hope I'm doing this right given my temps/production/feeding rate etc.


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## bsr8129

listening to people who dont know what they are talking about.


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## I'mNew2Frogs!

Great Thread. Learned a lot, laughed even more.


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## fishingguy12345

Haven't actually started with dart frogs yet but made a pretty annoying mistake already:

Washing plants off in the laundry tub without removing the dirt first... Plugged up the drain, water backed up into the furnace... 

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## Tijl

Biggest mistake almost everyone makes : 

TOO WET TANKS AND NO LEAF LITTER!


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