# Frog colors



## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Can you mix frog colors of the same species? I know it's not recommended to mix species, but can you put frogs like yellow galacs and red galacs together?


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

You most certainly can, but they will more-than-likely hybridize. Now as far as mate selection between color morphs... we shall see about that one in two years or so....
j


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Good, cause I like the golden galacs but a couple reds would be nice too.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

I'm not sure if you have herad, more than likely you have, but hybridization is strongly looked down upon in this hobby.
j


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Is it really hybridization if they are the same species? I have seen alot of pics where poeple are keeping several color morphs of tincs together. Would it be that bad to happen across a new color morph?


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Well these populations are spacially separated in the wild (well most-- I'll generalize for now excluding D. pumilio). You would not see different D. galactonotus types together. So in that regard, I think it would be very bad to have a new D. tinctorius morph.
j


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Please dont mix. im not even going to get into why, but im sure if you do a search you can find out.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

Well, crap! Looks like it's time to start planning a second tank.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2004)

lol.


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## k2bordr03 (Jul 15, 2004)

you have one of 2 choices. destroy the eggs or dont mix. if you want a show tank then mix away. if you want to breed than dont mix. simple.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

Ok, don't think me an a$$, but I thought captive breeding programs have the intent on developing new color strains. I understand the "they don't occur in nature" statement, but other hobbies do it with favorable results.

Jack Wattley has done it with Discus, creating gorgeous healty extremely desireable fish like leopard skins, blue diamonds, etc.

Sandfire Dragon Ranch and others have bred incredible colors of bearded dragons like white, salmon, tangerine, etc.

All these animals are healthy and most are highly desireable. One breeder I know of has waiting lists for his leucistic dragons, so do others with colors.

I'm not arguing, just trying to understand. I have searched but only keep finding statements like "don't interbreed, it's not right". Why not? If the frogs produced are healthy and the only side effect is a new color pattern, what's the fuss. We are not releasing these frogs back into the wild, and in the wild they have fantastic colors occuring naturally anyway so who would care.

Please don't flame me, my flame suit is at the cleaners. I'm just discussing a curious question.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

The best answer I've heard is "they don't want the greed/confusion of snake" market. People marking things as one thing when its another (or parental line is different than what is claimed). 

The real reason (or so the cynic in me thinks) is lots of hobbyists have a narcissicistic belief that their frogs may "save the species" and one will be released into the wild as part of a breeding plan. 

That being said. I don't recommend it. It has to make the whole practice of keeping the animals a little more difficult increases the chances of exposure to parasites that one animal doesn't have proper resistance too, and lots of people may not be nice to you. 

And lastly as someone else will surely point out... you said it yourself they come in so many amazing beautiful colors in the wild, why would you want for anything else?

Has anyone seen a purple frog? just curious..


/personally thinks the status quo is fine at the very least until some sort of formal registry is in place.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

*Hybridization*

I'm no expert, in fact I've only been keeping darts for a few weeks, but if I recall correctly from a previous thread on this topic, the reasons for not interbreeding in darts specifically have more to do with preservation than not introducing new color variants into the hobby. Many of these Dendrobatids are endangered, and more and more of their habitat is lost daily due to logging, clear cutting for farmland, and general population expantion, and this can't rightly be said about leopard gex or bearded dragons. It's likely that eventually the only viable members of some species will be the ones in the hands of private collectors. If interbreeding and hybridization becomes wholly accepted, it will become more and more difficult to trace the breeding records of the frogs, and it will become less and less likely that the frogs in your collection are indeed purebred. Who knows, science may discover one day that the cure for cancer exists only in the skin secretions of a certain Pumilio or Tinc, and if the lines of this frog have been corrupted, and no more exist in the wild...though luck to the cancer patients. Like I said, I'm a newbie, so feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, and I'll apologize most sincerily.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

i just want to say that that was an excellent post Dane. thats exactly what i am concerned about.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

*sigh*

If the conservation effort comes to rely upon hobbyists, its already to late.

Don't think keeping frogs as pets is going to save the species*, go donate some money to a conservation fund. 


*Well the economic side effect of sustainable collection of wc frogs _might_ help preserve them in the wild.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

Check these topics for reasons:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ht=hybrids

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2165

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2075


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

You're right, Tad. I am so, so sorry. But by "hobbyists" I had intended to encompass the specimens held by zoological organizations and breeders, which would likely not be indefinately sustainable, but would increase the general duration of the animals existence.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2004)

What about the newly introduced "Glo Fish"? It's the new species of zebra danio that had it's genes spliced with the dna from corals. This created a fish that glows in the dark a beautiful red color. They were created to help identify poluted waters but the hobby demended them and now they are finally available in fish stores. They have been patented and trademarked, however, and are not legally allowed to be bred by hobbyists although we know this will happen because the hobbyists will do it.

The same could happen with the frogs. A new color, pattern, who knows maybe a glow in the dark frog :idea: 

I don't think the conservation idea is feasable, but I too am worried that the rainforests might be gone one day. Good thing obtaining WC frogs is illegal.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2004)

> Good thing obtaining WC frogs is illegal.



Is that sarcasm? or are you Unaware? A goood portion of the frogs in the hobby _are_ wild caught.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2004)

No sarcasm. I thought importing WC darts was illegal.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

About glow fish, i hate how they did that, keep trying to improve nature, wich is already perfect until we make an imbalance. If there is someone who wants a glowing fiws get saltwater there re plenty of them that naturally glow from eating certain algies.


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## Moe (Feb 15, 2004)

Jared J said:


> No sarcasm. I thought importing WC darts was illegal.


I think thats aimed more toward the threatened species.

M.N


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## Lucidblue (Jul 23, 2004)

The red danio are illegal in California cuz the Department of Fish and Game doesn't want them getting loose and breeding in the wild, or at least that's what I heard.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Moe, is there anyone that actually sells WC darts? Or do breeders just import them to increase bloodlines?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

*WCs*

Jared, where do you think all the bastis and Almirantes came from? "Farm Raised" frogs usually are 1st or 2nd generation WCs. (at least that's what I've heard)


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

My understanding about what "farm raised" means:

Landowners set up lots of artificial breeding sites for pumilio (or whatever frog) then go around and collect the froglets as they morph out. Basically they're WC. 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

-Tad


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Without going into the whole" farmraised are WCs or not" topic again, farm raised should be treated as WC in every manor once you have obtained them. How many froggers out there obtained Basti or Almirente froglets? WC are not illegal to obtain from other froggers in the U.S. but most countries are no longer allowed to export WC.I do not think there is such a thing as second generation WC, once they are pulled, they become captive. All Darts are protected by CITES. The Counsel for International Trade for Endangered Species. They are all endangered, and yes I believe, and hope, that the "hobbiests" in this country may indead be able to actualy save some species/sub species that will no longer exist in the all to near future. There are islands in Panama the size of a playground, home to a color morphs of pumilio unique to the "playground". It scares me to see a condo development sign smack dab in the middle of the "playground". We hobbiests are the only hope for many of these species of darts. The lines MUST be kept true. Collection site locals are extreamly important. This is one reason that the whole "farm raised" pumilio thing is stirring some of us. I find it very hard to understand why we still do not have sight locals on frogs that have been coming into the U.S. for months now. How hard is it to tell the difference between a Bruno and a Chicirqui Grande? Very hard unless you know whether if it came from the mainland or from Bruno's Place. How is it that the farmers can not give site locals? There are those advertising morphs of pumilio that are not even close to being on , but that may be the topic of another thread.

Rich


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Tad,

Without getting on a soapbox, the answer to your question is yes & no (there could be other definitions of farm raised depending on the person who runs the facility.)

Regardless, your statement "Basically they're WC." is true. Any animal which is imported as farm raised should be treated as wild caught. There are a lot of sites with images of different farm raised facilities. I know there are some pics out there of facilities, anyone know of a few?







tad604 said:


> My understanding about what "farm raised" means:
> 
> Landowners set up lots of artificial breeding sites for pumilio (or whatever frog) then go around and collect the froglets as they morph out. Basically they're WC.
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Melissa,
You make a point for me and my soapbox.
It is true that there are farmers who have different ideas of what exactly constitutes a farm. This is the ongoing problem. 

Rich


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

> We hobbiests are the only hope for many of these species of darts. The lines MUST be kept true. Collection site locals are extreamly important.


If thats the case its too late as you later go on to prove yourself:



> How hard is it to tell the difference between a Bruno and a Chicirqui Grande? Very hard unless you know whether if it came from the mainland or from Bruno's Place. How is it that the farmers can not give site locals?


The pet trade is not going to be able save any species of dart from extinction in the wild, just not going to happen not the way it is now. Conservationists, people protecting the environment thats whats going to save the endangered species.

If you keep pet frogs b/c you think your saving an endangered species save your time and just donate some money to a worthy cause.

-Tad


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Tad,
I would dare say that if Auratus could no longer be found in the wild we would be able to breed them and keep them as a species for many, many generations. The same could be said about many other dart species. The main thing that I am worried about is if we do not keep a true representation of a species in the hobby, and that species does become extinct in the wild, it is lost. This hobby is growing all the time. There are species of animals that no longer exist in the wild that are being bred in captivity. We have very little control over what happens worldwide. We can however keep species bloodlines true. We can also do our part and ask about species locals/bloodlines when we purchase our frogs. 

Rich


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

I don't think frogs kept in the hobby would ever be acceptable to release into the wild (and if all the frogs in the wild are lost is there really a point?).


-Tad


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Tad,
What is the point of being able to see, study, breed , raise, display, an animal that no longer exists in the wild? I can think of many.

Also, what would stop a large population of froglets from being transplanted or redeposited back to its native country? Hawaii has a large population Auratus , they are not indigenous.

Rich


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

> What is the point of being able to see, study, breed , raise, display, an animal that no longer exists in the wild? I can think of many.


Sure, buts it not the same thing as the wild species, it just isn't and they don't hold the value of true wild frogs.



> Also, what would stop a large population of froglets from being transplanted or redeposited back to its native country?


The same thing that caused them to go extinct in the first place?


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Tad,
Transplanting a frog will not make them extinct. Reintroducing a frog back into an environment that has been made again habitable will not make them extinct.

Since you yourself keep frogs, I am sure that you agree a frog behind glass is better than no frog at all.

It must also be brought up that the vast majority of froggers out there, and researchers, do not have the luxury to visit the native country of every dart species. To study a frog in the hobby you must know local. Local=species. Wether the frog is in its native local or behind glass , they are the same species and well worth research.

Rich


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

If they were extinct in the wild due to habitat destruction I think that hobbyists would be able to successfully reintroduce them into the wild if there habitat was destroyed. Captive frogs are pretty much the samething as wild frogs, one of the only differences I can think of is their diet. Maybe Rich can chime in on their differences? Tad what is the value of "true wild frogs"? Tad it is feasible that if a species of dart frog was extinct in the wild that hobbysts working in conjunction with scientists could release a large number of froglets into their native habitat, some of those would survive and would eventually restore the native population of frogs. Of course their habitat would have to be restored before all this could happen. Dart frogs are still wild animals with all their natural insects and once introduced into the wild they would begin eating the native food, such as ants and termites, and they would soon begin to produce toxins again. Hopefully the above will never have to happen.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Animals bred by hobbyists would not be wild frogs. All the wishing in the world isn't going to make it so. If someone stops by my house asking for my pets to repopulate the wild, its too late. People talk about locality and know where their frogs came from, yet admittedly they don't know, can't know unless they collected the frogs themselves (at which point I'd hardly call the person a hobbyist. I'm all for the conservation, I just think it should be left up to professionals, Zoo's, Aquariums, and Universities. I don't think any pet is fit to be released as a "wild" animal.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Tad,
Most froggers do not consider their frogs pets.
There are quite a few species, more than not, in the hobby that are very local specific. We want to keep it that way.
I am having a hard time geussing at what your stance is. Do you not agree that it is important to know collection local? Or is it that you do not believe that transplantations are possible?I did mention the Hawaii Auratus . Or maybe that a very prolific species could be reintroduced back into its native land after reforresting, governmental changes, ect. take place?

Conservation is in your hands Tad, you own endangered species.

Rich


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Frogs I own aren't ever going to be released into the wild... I can't imagine I would own any species that would ever be so rare that any conservationist is going to knock on my door asking for frogs. I mean if the "professionals" can't keep these species going you reasonably expect me to? 

If any frogs I own are considered "endangered" I'm not sure what definition of endangered your using. If thats the case I'm fairly certain I'd be in violation of several laws. 



> Conservation is in your hands Tad, you own endangered species.


Sounds, like a perfect bite for a comercial but unless your slighting my abilities to keep frogs alive I can safely say the fate of the leucomelas/tinc/auratus/vent populations is not in my hands.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Tad,
CITES

I still do not get your stance.


Rich


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

My frogs will never be used to repopulate anywhere period....
The reason I want them to stay pure is for the behavior traits. Have you ever heard that is you are going to breed red-eyes you better get your breeding group all from the same person at the same time? These frogs can tell a difference in each other and are much harder to breed if you don't get them from the same local. (I am not 100% sure this is the truth, but it doesn't really matter either, because it could be) Does this apply to darts? I don't know, but I would rather have a pure line to work with. 
Also how do you even know what you have? Just because someone told you it is a tinc then it must be. Each location must be treated as a different species, Take amazonicus and vents, they can cross breed, they look *very* close, but calls are a little differnt. We need population data on everything, but don't have it. That doesn't mean that we should just mix all vents together just because we are not 100% sure of the history of our frogs.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

> I still do not get your stance.


Look there are just too many unknowns when it comes to hobbyists. So many people that do things differently. I couldnt tell you honestly where any of my frogs came from beyond the breeder. The breeder might have an idea, but they aren't sure beyond what the guy who imported them in said who doesn't know except from what the exporter said, who doesn't know except from the guy who caught them said add a couple of generational lines, and you see what a mess this telephone game can be. Add on top of that who can really say what sort of effects captive life has on these frogs (how effective will they be at hunting? or avoiding being hunted? they're bred in a manner to maximize output, no one really culls their mediocre frogs).

Add to this the fact that your average hobbyist only has 3-5 frogs of a given group (morph/species), Is this really enough to start a breeding program to restock nature? Or do you propose mixing frogs from different hobbyists? at which point you cause exponentially more confusion in the aforementioned telephone game. How hard could it be for someone to accidentaly label a Suriname cobalt, a brazil cobalt? or confuse one the god knows how many auratus? I just don't feel its logistically possible, not now and probably not for quite some time.


-Tad


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Tad,
It is possible to keep trackof bloodlines and locals, but not with your attitude. There was just a tad of philosophy and "what if" that I was trying to get across, with facts thrown in. You have much too casual an outlook on things. Most get it, you do not.

Rich


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Wow, I really think you fail to get it, or you want to sell people on the idea that keeping frogs is some enviromentally/ecologically good thing to do. My outlook _is_ casual, its a hobby not my living. Seriously do you get it? its a hobby. 

Your own words:


> How hard is it to tell the difference between a Bruno and a Chicirqui Grande? Very hard unless you know whether if it came from the mainland or from Bruno's Place. How is it that the farmers can not give site locals?


Any founding stock for possible wild release should be caught /raised by conservationists not hobbyists, I could see where the experience of some commercial breeders could be useful at that step, but I don't think the frogs in the hobby would be appropriate.

If you want to save frog species work on saving their habitat.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Tad,
What does the E in CITES stand for?

Rich


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

I know what it stands, lets not be insulting here. CITES doesn't just deal with endangered species. Any species that are endangered are not going to be entering the pet trade (you have any A Zeteki for sale?). It just isn't going to happen. In any case I don't ever see myself purchasing any w/c imported animals at least on purpose. 
Besides nothing you said invalidates my reasoning behind not relying on the pet trade/hobbyists to conserve species. 

-Tad 

*yawn* this is getting repetitive.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Tad & Ben,

I think you guys are both correct. There are too many grey areas in this hobby. Regardless of how well we think we keep track of bloodlines, the only way we can be 100% sure of locality data is to pick them out ourselves in the wild or records from non-profits (zoos & museums), not individuals or companies with a vested interest.

Like Ben, I know NONE of the animals we have will ever be reintroduced into the wild. Conservation and donations to ongoing studies is how we, Quality Captives, choose to contribute to their preservation of these animals in the wild.

Melis



tad604 said:


> Wow, I really think you fail to get it, or you want to sell people on the idea that keeping frogs is some enviromentally/ecologically good thing to do. My outlook _is_ casual, its a hobby not my living. Seriously do you get it? its a hobby.
> 
> Your own words:
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Well guys, this is certainly getting interesting to watch. I study wildlife conservation, and with that in mind, I am no expert as of yet. Here are some ideas though I'd like to point out. First off, I was just talking to Marcus, and he was in Panama more recently that I have been. He says property is now for sale for development in the Bocas, with beach front properties going for $250,000 and up. Now we all know of D. pumilio as a weedy frog that likes disturbed sites, but with whole islands being developed, I could see them having a seriously rough time surviving until the people's lush gardens are established... This is just one example of where saving habitat will probably not happen-- there is no way we will raise several millions to save pieces of islands. I just don't see it happening. So with that said, everyone has an idea of the locality data from these new farmed frogs, so repopulation is certainly an option provided that people keep things pure. As for locality data on frogs from private people's collections, I have said it before, and I really do belive that it will be a trend in the next few years. I know when I had frogs, I could trace them back to an importation. When the hobby was a lot smaller, then it was much easier to trace things back-- you only had two maybe three people to go back to. This makes it even more important now for people to keep track of their animals. Now when you say that it would never happen that a conservationist would ask for private animals, I disagree. There are certainly people in the hobby that I would trust with their data if there were no other animals. Also look now that several scientists are looking to the hobby for providing animals for research-- myself included. I will be lucky this coming summer and will be visiting Peru to make sure the behaviors I am documenting in the lab are consistent with those in nature, but the fact remains I am putting a lot of weight on the behaviors of CB frogs. 
j


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Frogs from personal collections will never be used to repopluate a wild environment. If you look at current legislation governments are even now getting very strict about rerelease of any populations that have been farm raised or captive born. This is a very pressing issue in aquaculture and aquatic ecosystem restoration. Even the major zooologic and research institutes are having very difficult times getting permits to rerelease any animal held in captivity. Two examples are the invasive lionfish populations along the east coast and release of nurse sharks back into the wild fromo the pet trade. Both are extremely hot topics that have a lot of political might behind them.

If believing that keeping pure blood lines is one day going to benefit the wild populations is making you feel better that is fine, but the reality is that animals held in captivity of any sort are going to have little to no replenishment value. Contributing money to a habitat protection organization is a far better way to contribute to species protection than making sure your pair of pumilio is from the same geographical area.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Yeager said:


> Now when you say that it would never happen that a conservationist would ask for private animals, I disagree. There are certainly people in the hobby that I would trust with their data if there were no other animals. Also look now that several scientists are looking to the hobby for providing animals for research-- myself included. I will be lucky this coming summer and will be visiting Peru to make sure the behaviors I am documenting in the lab are consistent with those in nature, but the fact remains I am putting a lot of weight on the behaviors of CB frogs.
> j


Justin,

I do agree with you, there are people in the hobby whose frogs I would trust, but I would say the % of people involved is probably less than 1% of the hobby. Because of the small number involved, I made a general statement vs an absolute one. I should have noted it. 

Melis


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

I'd almost wonder if it would be fair to call those people hobbyists? 
In any case I would say that such a person is the exception.


-tad


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Well I ask you then, what is your definition of a hobbyist? I've always wondered what most people think it is. I don't think http://www.m-w.com and I would have the same definition for this case.
j


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Good question, and a loaded one at that. From http://www.m-w.com: _pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation. _ I am a computer programmer by day, and a frog hobbyist/breeder by night! :lol: 

I would think people involved with this could be broken into a couple groups, by no means is this all inclusive, but just some ideas.

researcher
researcher/enviromentalist
hobbyist
flesh peddler
breeder/hobbyist *** 
breeder
...
...
...

Other thoughts on this subject?

M.





Yeager said:


> Well I ask you then, what is your definition of a hobbyist? I've always wondered what most people think it is. I don't think http://www.m-w.com and I would have the same definition for this case.
> j


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

Here's one scenario that might happen/has already happened but we have no way of knowing. 

Inbreeding that creates frogs with inability to make poison. (or weaken their productivity.) 

If this has already happened, then no matter how good the line can be traced back, the frogs pretty much useless in terms of releasing em back or study their toxin (which is not viable if they're CB frogs anyway)

There are probably several ways to avoid this from happening (if it's not too late) but perhaps another thread? 

SB


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Hobby (def by Webster):an activity or intrest undertaken for pleasure during one's leisure time.

By this defintion I can't say I am a hobbiest. I spend way to much time doing frog related things for it to be done in my leisure time. 

Maybe it's an avocation: a pleasurable activity that is in addtion to the regular work a person must do; a hobby

Well this is closer, but not sure it fits me 100%. When the tanks start to increase in number then the "hobby" side fades a little, it becomes almost a job. They are like my kids. It took awhile before my girl friend understood this, but I now find her peeking in a tank now a then.

Wow started to go way Off Topic.... sorry,

Now there is a registry in the works, it is just going very slow because people have other things to do also. But doesn't the hobby sort of have a word of mouth registry right now? Overall if you get your frogs from a breeder, not a wholesaler, you are going to know a lot more about your frogs from the start. Who they got them from. I followed my orange terribilis back to Germany and to W/C parents, granted most of this frogs you can't do that with, but I only get frogs from people I trust, you have to take the word of the people you get your frogs from, if you can't you shouldn't buy anything from them. 

Ok enough of this, I am going to go watch my frogs... as a hobbiest, an advocate, and as someone who just wants to escape from the allergic hell of the ragweed filled outdoors.


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## jhupp (Feb 27, 2004)

Ben,

Now that you have come to the conclusion that it is an avocation, take a minute and go find a copy of Frost's poem 'Two Tramps in Mudtime.' A personal favorite of mine, and it should fit well with you and this discussion (the is it a hobby part atleast).

Melissa,

You forgot the 'collector'. While not unique to this endevor, nor inclusive of all that collect frogs, it is a personaly trait of the most finatic (my self included). General the collecter is charecterised by a compulsive personaltiy that may be completely out of thier control. I have a friend who after reciving his first orchid purchased some 1500 over the course of about 8 months. He now takes medication to keep his compulsion in check. While its an extreme example, we are deffinatly represented in the hobby.


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

Jhupp,

Don't take this the wrong way but that example was too funny to me. I had a similar problem in that I bought 1 orchid for my mother for her birthday, then became infatuated with them and bought about 50 in a matter of six weeks....lol. It wasn't funny when I looked at my bank statement though. Fortunately, I sold most (only have about 10 species now) and used the money for books (college).

Thanks for the interesting insight. I used to dub this problem the "Pokemon phenomena"- Gotta catch them all, but since the show has had a huge drop in popularity I feel another moniker is needed.

Justin


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## jhupp (Feb 27, 2004)

You took it exactly how it was intended.


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