# What do you want in a vivarium?



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

I have been talking to Joe about this, but want to get some more feedback from everyone else here. I am in the design stage of a custom acrylic vivarium that I will be offering for sale. I want to make the most versatile vivarium possible that will appeal to dart frog keepers. So far this is what I have on my list:


~16" cube
Euro vent type ventilation 
Door on the front with hinges on either the side or bottom, well sealed
Optional hole in the top for misting nozzle
Keep it under $100 shipped
What other features would you like to see incorporated into this? Keep in mind that the dimensions of this will be customizable to your needs, but will have all of the same features. These will be built from 1/4" cell cast acrylic so humidity will have a very negligible effect on it.

Thanks

Paul
First Class Aquatics


----------



## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

optional bulkheads/drains as well.



FCA said:


> I have been talking to Joe about this, but want to get some more feedback from everyone else here. I am in the design stage of a custom acrylic vivarium that I will be offering for sale. I want to make the most versatile vivarium possible that will appeal to dart frog keepers. So far this is what I have on my list:
> 
> 
> ~16" cube
> ...


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Those are easy to incorporate. Since I laser cut all my acrylic I can put whatever size you need in virtually any location.

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Guest (Oct 7, 2004)

I like the drain option. Would you offer a taller version?


----------



## Moe (Feb 15, 2004)

If your thinking versatile, one option could be a spray bar that fits accross the top of the aquarium.

M.N


----------



## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Options for front, top, and side opening doors would be nice. Everyone seems to like their doors in a different spot.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I would want some about 11 wide, by 14 deep by 18 high. I would be very interested and I hear you are in Ohio...  So how much would be saved with no shipping?


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Jared J said:


> I like the drain option. Would you offer a taller version?


I will be offering whatever size you want. My business philosophy is to make things to your specs, not mine. It is your vivarium so it should be made the way you want it.  



Arklier said:


> Options for front, top, and side opening doors would be nice. Everyone seems to like their doors in a different spot.


Very easy to do. I was thinking of offering both options as it is simple to just relocate the hinges. 



kyle1745 said:


> I would want some about 11 wide, by 14 deep by 18 high. I would be very interested and I hear you are in Ohio... Smile So how much would be saved with no shipping?


No problem, like I said above, I will customize these any way you want. I will post prices without shipping, so if you pick it up that is the price you pay, however you have to pay sales tax  Sorry

These are great ideas. Keep them coming!


----------



## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

http://www.understoryenterprises.com/darttank.htm This is a good idea for dart frogs. The fogless cage is important. Also, something to do with putting a UV light on top. 

Jordan


----------



## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

Holes for misting nozzles. Bulkhead with plastic tubing connection.

Able to withstand heat from CF lightings. 

Also I don't know all the materials involved, but I am interested if you can get the ones w/o VOC.


SB


----------



## bluetip (May 18, 2004)

some people may want to further divide their tanks into smaller portions so mounts can be strategically placed so you can simply snap in a thin piece of bendable acrylic into place to further subdivide the tank.

I would think that an optional built in lighting hood could be a good feature instead of a lot of people having to worry about how to make a hood or having to buy a separate fixture for the tank.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

steelcube said:


> Also I don't know all the materials involved, but I am interested if you can get the ones w/o VOC.
> 
> 
> SB


What is VOC? Everything I make is made from cell cast acrylic. The best you can get. In my many discussions with people that own these, they are all made out of extruded acrylic (much cheaper than cast). This is the reason the doors are warping. All acrylic absorbs some moisture which causes distortion. But there is a huge difference between the two types. Extruded is around 12-14%, whereas cast is only 2-4%. So you can see that the probability of extruded warping is much higher than cast. This is also the reason aquariums are made almost exclusively from cast acrylic and not extruded.


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

I made a custom stand for some tanks, and unfortunately I measured a little too exact on the bottom shelf (was supposed to be room for a 30xhigh, or 20 high) and well unless I pop off the plastic molding they won't fit. would it be possible to get the dimensions made to custom specifications (personally I'm looking for two tanks that would be 23"high 23"wide 12-14"deep but keep a lot of the other specifics the same?


-tad


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

tad604 said:


> I made a custom stand for some tanks, and unfortunately I measured a little too exact on the bottom shelf (was supposed to be room for a 30xhigh, or 20 high) and well unless I pop off the plastic molding they won't fit. would it be possible to get the dimensions made to custom specifications (personally I'm looking for two tanks that would be 23"high 23"wide 12-14"deep but keep a lot of the other specifics the same?
> 
> 
> -tad


No problem. I customize them to the size you want. 

Paul


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

I will be building the prototype this weekend and begin water testing it. I have had many people volunteer to help me test these in a "real world" environment , so that will be the next step. I am placing a large order for acrylic today, so I should be ready to start production in about 3 weeks depending on how testing goes. This of course is subject to change, but that is the current schedule of events.

Paul


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

I just thought of another question. Would anyone be interested in having the back of the enclosure be black instead of clear? Or any color really. I can get acrylic in red, blue, black, green, yellow, etc, etc. Colored acrylic is cheaper than clear, so by making the back out of something other than clear, it will help me drop the price some. It seems like most people are just covering the back anyway.

Thanks for all the ideas and help.

Paul


----------



## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*other colors*

Actually Paul, some people might be interested in getting the back and both sides in color vs clear - and heck, why you are at it, you could do the bottom in color as well. We and other breaders have issues when you place terrariums side by side. 

Best way to explain it, "the grass is always greener" is a good way. As it is, we place barriers between tanks, so this option would be good. This would be a nice way to reduce stress, and eliminate nose rub issues.

Based on that, you would only need 2 clear pieces (top and door) and could do the rest in different colors.

Just some thoughts,

Melis


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

I think black would be a fine color for the bacground. Actually I think it would be preferreable.


-Tad


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Well if that's the case, then I can make these even cheaper. My cost for colored acrylic is about 1/3 less than clear. I can always use clear wherever the customer wants, but for the standard make it mostly black.


----------



## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Tad,

I agree, but you have to be careful. If someone would decide not to put a background in, the black can act like a mirror.

Although these creatures are beautiful, they don't aren't the brightest. 

Melis



tad604 said:


> I think black would be a fine color for the bacground. Actually I think it would be preferreable.
> 
> 
> -Tad


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

melissa68 said:


> If someone would decide not to put a background in, the black can act like a mirror.


If the surface was scuffed or dulled with a piece of sandpaper the mirror effect would disappear. I really like the black back and side idea. Front opening with a place for a misting system, drainage, CF lighting and vents so they don't fog up.  I'M SOLD!!

These tanks sound really wonderful  !! I would love to put about 10 or so 10 gal into a furniture quality wood rack. Now, would a quantity discount apply?

Of course it's a pipe dream until I get a raise and lots of money and the free time to build it


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Wouldn't the condensation on the inside of the enclosure get rid of the mirror effect of the black acrylic?

Sure, I like big orders and will always give you a quote beforehand so you can see your "bulk" discount! :lol:


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

Whether or not u put colored acrylic on the back and sides puting it on the bottoms is a really good idea. No one ever needs to see the bottom, ever.
is there adifference in price b/w the different colors, is yellow more expensive then sya, black, cuz it is closer to clear? 

Otherwise these sound great!  [/quote]


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

No, the acrylic is priced either clear or colored. Some colors are harder to get at times though (red and green are very difficult at Christmas time), but other than that all colors are the same price.


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

As far as the front goes, I know there are people who do not like to see the false bottom so you could possibly make a colored frame around the door or just on the bottom. I myself would probably prefer a frame effect around the door. Maybee an inch or so. Not sure about that because I have not seen to many of these tankes. And some people may want a whole cut out on the top for the use of a fan.

Mike P.


----------



## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

You know what I want in a vivarium? A nice group of retics

Just kidding. I do want the retics though.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Jared J said:


> You know what I want in a vivarium? A nice group of retics


Those are extra and I'll have to charge you for them :lol:


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2004)

Damn, can't get nothin for free anymore 8)


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

I'll throw some in if you buy 50 vivariums, how's that?


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2004)

LOL....


----------



## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Fruit fly proof screen would be nice. How much for a 16 by 16 cube with a black back including shipping to San Francisco?

Jordan


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Since he's still prototyping... he can't answer that!

But he said he's aiming at under $100.

(that's what I read anyhow)

s


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Jordan B said:


> Fruit fly proof screen would be nice. How much for a 16 by 16 cube with a black back including shipping to San Francisco?
> 
> Jordan


There are two different meshes that I am looking at for screening over the vents. Both are made from polyester and have holes either 0.8mm or 0.25mm. I'm thinking the 0.8mm will be sufficient for the job though unless someone thinks differently. I am open to opinions on this as they are pretty close in price. I will use whichever works best.

Like Scott said, I am still in the prototype stage, so pricing hasn't been determined yet. I have worked a pretty good deal with my acrylic suppliers and got the cost down by purchasing a larger quantity than I normally do.

One other thing that came up, the 48" wire shelves that people are using don't seem to fit three of these 16" cubes very well as they don't actually have 48" of space on them. So I was thinking of going to 15" cubes so they will fit better while still maximizing the space available. Obviously if you don't use these shelves this isn't an issue and they can still be made any dimension you want. But it seems like a lot of the breeders I have talked to are using these.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2004)

:twisted: Paul, you've got my income tax return spent already!!!!


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Jared J said:


> :twisted: Paul, you've got my income tax return spent already!!!!


I've seen enough awesome pictures of frogs on here to have mine spent as well :lol:


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I like the idea of UV light in the vivarium, I know the frogs get along without it, but I would like to have conditions in the viv as close to nature as possible.
I had been thinking of building my own acrylic tanks, front opening, with the top made out of the OP-4 UV passing acrylic. I'm not sure if this stuff transmits visible light without adding tint or color to it though.
I would only like to cover up the false bottom with black if I had it equipped with a plumbed drain. If you can see in there, it's alot easier to tell when it's time to siphon out the excess.
I like the euro-stlye vent Idea, If you were to make it with a removable cover, or shut off, that would be all the better.
I am also fond of a taller tank 24" tall is ideal in my book.
Just my $0.02!


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Normal acrylic blocks ~80% of the harmful UVA and UVB rays. Is that a problem? Which UV do you want to get through and how much?


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Ideally 100% transparent, but I know that isn't available. I think most daylight compact flourescent lighting produces about the right ratio of UVA/UVB without being too biased either way, but If I had to pick one I would take more UVA.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Acrylite OP-4 that you mentioned made by Cyro Industires seems to be your best bet. It has the same optical properties as their GP series which is what aquariums are made from. Total light transmission is around 92% with less than 1% haze. So it is as clear as any other cast acrylic coming from Cyro. 
Taken from their technical sheets:



> Low levels of light transmission typically begin at about 250 nm and then increase steadily as wavelength increases. At 300 nm, the light transmission of ACRYLITE OP-4 sheet is approximately 80%. The transmission level increases to approximately 92% at 400 nm, the upper limit of the UV region.


I would have to call my supplier on Monday to get a price, but I know this stuff isn't cheap. Cyro's Acrylite GP is like the Cadillac of acrylics. It's the best you can get, but it comes at a premium.


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I definatly know it's not easy to come by, I looked real hard about a year ago, and gave up, cause I'd have to order a whole sheet, which is both more than I could afford, and more than I could use.
A cool idea I had for display type vivariums: 
Make the front three panels removable, except for the bottom 6-8 inches, which would need to be water-tight. Sell the viv with an extra panel. When the panels need cleaning, take one panel off, repalce it with the extra(clean)panel, clean the panel, and repeat the process till all three panels have been cleaned.
I came up with this idea cause when I clean the hex tank that I have three imitators in, I always need another person to be on the lookout for potential escapees.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2004)

> potential escapees


They're not escaping, they're expanding their surroundings


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Or perhaps they dream of becoming raisins :lol:


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2004)

You could go as far as to keep your house moist and humid :lol:


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

You know you're a frognut if you keep you're humidifiers on in the summer, "just in case"


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2004)

LMAO!


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Concerns for decent lighting have already been expressed by others. How about making tanks in lengths of the more popular cf lighting. For example: ever tried getting decent light into a single vertical ten with a misting nozzle in the middle of the top? A ten hex?
A 16" wide tank might fit into this category.


----------



## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

deleted - should be a PM.


----------



## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

FCA- I think you should definatley incorporate ventilation that makes the tank fog free while keeping high humidity. Theres nothing worse than setting up an incredible tank only to have it all fogged up on you.

Jordan


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Jordan B said:


> FCA- I think you should definatley incorporate ventilation that makes the tank fog free while keeping high humidity. Theres nothing worse than setting up an incredible tank only to have it all fogged up on you.
> 
> Jordan


It will have ventilation along the front at the top and bottom to keep the front fog free.


----------



## RSines (Feb 15, 2004)

I agree 15" cubes are a great idea.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

I am picking up the laser cut parts today, so I should have the first one together within the next couple of days (have a few paying customer orders that need to be filled first ). Oh, and I'm still waiting on the mosquito netting. Anyone know if they sell that stuff at local craft stores?


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Mosquito netting is normally way to fine/flimsy to use in this application.

What you need is very fine window screening (stiff polyester or fiberglass). I've never seen it fine enough at a place like Home Depot.

s


FCA said:


> ...Oh, and I'm still waiting on the mosquito netting. Anyone know if they sell that stuff at local craft stores?


----------



## Guest (Oct 11, 2004)

You mention a ventilation on the bottom, will the tank still be able to hold water? if so how much? If its going to be front opening how about a hole or two on the back/top for misting nozzles, water pump chords etc..


-Tad[/i]


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Scott said:


> Mosquito netting is normally way to fine/flimsy to use in this application.
> 
> What you need is very fine window screening (stiff polyester or fiberglass). I've never seen it fine enough at a place like Home Depot.


It's just called "Mosquito Netting", but is actually a 100% polyester mesh. That is the stuff I have ordered, but I'm always open to other options.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

tad604 said:


> You mention a ventilation on the bottom, will the tank still be able to hold water? if so how much? If its going to be front opening how about a hole or two on the back/top for misting nozzles, water pump chords etc..
> 
> 
> -Tad[/i]


Yes, it will hold water. The bottom vent is going to be 3" above the bottom of the tank. As for holes, I can put them wherever you want.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Just to reiterate something. I have been getting a ton of emails and PM's on pricing and requesting custom jobs. I am not ready to do these yet. I am still waiting on 6 sheets of acrylic (should be in by Friday), and I still need to build the prototype. Once I get the prototype built I will have a better idea of how much acrylic I am using, how much laser cutting time I need for each one, how long it takes me to assemble one, and how much all the misc parts will cost. From there I will be able to determine the final selling price. I also want to have the prototype tested before I start selling them, just to make sure there aren't any major issues and it lives up to what everyone is expecting. I have had several breeders volunteer to test these for me and I have already selected 2 of them to be my testers and get a free tank. So no more asking me to be a tester! :lol: LOL Once I get their stamp of approval and make any changes they request, I will start building them as fast as I can as well as start doing custom jobs.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I can't wait, I really want to see what you come up with.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

I picked up all the laser cut parts tonight.  


One more question. For those of you that wanted drains, where would you like it to be located? I saw someone used what looked like John Guest fittings for their drain. I have a distributor that I buy JG fittings from for some of my other equipment I make, so I can get those really cheap if they will do the job.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

Anyone have any input on the drain question above?

Thanks


----------



## bluetip (May 18, 2004)

I think a lot of ready built vivs have their drains on the bottom but I prefer mine to be at the back because it serves as a level for the water. I think especially that you have a ventilation slit 3" off the bottom, I guess we wouldn't want the water level to reach to that height and effectively make the ventilation slit as the drainage slit.  

Second, I don't want to have to worry about having a wet floor with a leaking pipe under my tank. I can be quite paranoid but its one of the darnest things to take care off. Not only that, an unexpected leak from the bottom might even destroy any submersible pumps that may be found in the viv!


----------



## Guest (Oct 13, 2004)

I've added JG fitting onto 2 of my tanks a couple inches from the bottom and they seem to work great. No leaks at all with teflon tape. The extra water from my mister goes down the tube into an empty bottle. I suggest using an elbow fitting since it jutts out less than a normal one.


----------



## FCA (Oct 7, 2004)

I have added a newsletter signup to my website. When you signup, you will receive an email when these become available or when there are updates on this project. There is so much interest in this, I figured it would be easier to create a mailing list for everyone to receive information about it. I will also update this thread, but not everyone checks this daily.

Any sales, special offers, or coupons will be sent via the mailing list only. 

Click here to be taken to the signup page.

Thanks


----------



## troy b (Mar 8, 2004)

hi,
here is a pic of what i think people are looking for. this 1 of 3 cages i'm building. if you have any questions please let know.
thanks
troy


----------

