# Common Springs/Isopods



## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Figured I'd compile a list since I have most of the names at this point, note that I'm not an entomologist so don't flip switches if I'm wrong with any of these.. I'll make it clear what's known and what's an educated guess. 

I realize there are a few other species floating around, but I'm sticking to the common ones for now... at least until some sort of ID comes up on the others. Pictures are not mine... will give credit where I can find the info.

Springtails:

Temperate whites - Folsomia Candida 








(photo from stevehopkin.co.uk)

Temperate blacks - Tomocerus sp. (best guess - T. minor)









Temperate silvers - NOID, (hail mary guess - Lepidocyrtus sp.)








(photo by Mike Khadavi)

Blues - Probably Podura or Hypogastrura sp... could be a few others as well though.








(http://baypoll.blogspot.com/2011/03/bees-and-springtails.html)

Tropical Pinks - Sinella sp. (best guess - S. curviseta)









Tropical Whites - Sinella sp. 








(photo by markbudde)

Isopods:

Dwarf Whites - Trichorhina tomentosa









Dwarf Purples - Trichoniscus pusillus? 









Dwarf Striped - Philoscia muscorum









Orange - Porcellio scaber


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Hmmmm it was my understanding that the common white tropical springtails are also Folsoma candida


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

hypostatic said:


> Hmmmm it was my understanding that the common white tropical springtails are also Folsoma candida


The problem is that Folsomia candida are surprisingly invasive if given a chance. This has resulted in people recieving cultures of what were supposed to be Sinella but instead getting the Folosomia. Hence the confusion about the two species. 

Ed


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

hypostatic said:


> Hmmmm it was my understanding that the common white tropical springtails are also Folsoma candida


In the literature, I've seen it mentioned several times that F. candida has become so widespread that it's impossible to know where it came from originally. Sinella is also fairly widespread which makes it even more difficult to say. 

However, according to some scientific articles, the optimum temperatures for Sinella species I've been able to find are typically around ~30C, while for F. candida the optimal temperature is ~21C and reproduction stops above 28C....

That info (along with pink Sinella being called "tropical" as well) points to Sinella being the "more tropical" of the two, whether either species is actually tropical or not. It seems to be a crapshoot between the two for what was called what in the past, but this seems the most logical solution given the info available to us. 

On a side note, I've posted this elsewhere recently but thought it belonged in this thread as well - Photo credit to Randy/dartsami from E and K Best Buys:


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Hey Teddy,could you please tell me what method you guys use to culture the temperate grey,i could be hugely wrong!!! but it looks very much like the little grey i have in our compost bins,which does well there but i can't culture it for love or money well not yet anyway,maybe due to warmth as it does seem to to best in our cooler months,remember i am in England .So as well as a rough method a guidance for temperature would be much appreciated.
Great post
thankyou
Stu


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

stu&shaz said:


> Hey Teddy,could you please tell me what method you guys use to culture the temperate grey,i could be hugely wrong!!! but it looks very much like the little grey i have in our compost bins,which does well there but i can't culture it for love or money well not yet anyway,maybe due to warmth as it does seem to to best in our cooler months,remember i am in England .So as well as a rough method a guidance for temperature would be much appreciated.
> Great post
> thankyou
> Stu


Room temp, they are ~4" above a T8 fluorescent so maybe a degree or two warmer. Are you trying to raise them on charcoal alone? I recently tried adding a couple of cardboard squares and their population has taken off/mortality has dropped (so I'm not sure if they're breeding faster or I'm just seeing the percentage that was dying before), they really seem to like it. In my experience they also seem to prefer drier conditions than other springs, those two things were the difference makers for me with culturing these guys.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

tclipse said:


> Room temp, they are ~4" above a T8 fluorescent so maybe a degree or two warmer. Are you trying to raise them on charcoal alone? I recently tried adding a couple of cardboard squares and their population has taken off/mortality has dropped (so I'm not sure if they're breeding faster or I'm just seeing the percentage that was dying before), they really seem to like it. In my experience they also seem to prefer drier conditions than other springs, those two things were the difference makers for me with culturing these guys.


I've tried charcoal and coco fiber,very much earlier this year,but on both occasions complete crash in days,in the coolest place in our room, mind it must be stated i have learned abit since then and also because of the quantity i have been able to harvest without culturing i have not made strenuous efforts with them. But, becuase we have so many possible froglets in the pipeline,springtails are becoming ever more important to us.Tell me did you add the cardboard to the charcoal only culture?
Second question is what are you feeding?
Interesting what you have mentioned with the card squares,as this is my method of harvest as this particular species congregates upon the card,and they seem to also like erm tea bags,well they are English.
This is a great help to me /us Teddy,I have friends whom would also benefit from these if we could master them,i sent some to a friend in the spring which is mild here, well lets say not too hot not too cold when they travelled,unfortunately all dead on arrival.
much appreciated
regards
Stu


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

stu&shaz said:


> Tell me did you add the cardboard to the charcoal only culture?
> Second question is what are you feeding?
> 
> much appreciated
> ...


Stu, 
Yeah I added the squares to cultures that are otherwise just charcoal & water. I'm feeding mostly yeast & small dog food bits, with the occasional mushroom or fish flakes.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks again Teddy,i'll be having another crack at these
merry chrimbo
Stu


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## leonh (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi stu hope your good,as it goes i,m trying to culture these at the moment and i admit when i first tried culturing them over a year ago the culture crashed also very quickly within a week.

but fast forward and i've been trying again for last 3 weeks or so and there doing much better,not booming yet but are still alive.

the difference this time is i've added vents thanks 
(pumilio) on the side of the 2/3 litre food tubs i use what i have done is to drill 20mm holes on either end not on top so they can be stacked with out blocking vents.

then i've got a bit of pva glue and stuck cut out round disks of weed block the fabric type,how i did this is stick masking tape on weed block and using a pencil traced round 30 mm drill bit to allow exstra edge to glue slightly OCD!! lol.

as for water very slightly damp substrate but with high humidity and using R.O water with replacement minerals/or rain water when avalable.never tap water.

interior is collected soil from woodland very humousy and dark with lots of organics/grass plain more clay based with alot of minerals, not microwaved but checked for pests as it will be loaded with good stuff the springtails can eat staight away.

on this few small twigs broke up i.e english oak/sicamore. and torn up leaves of both, filled to about half the tub plus other organic debri's

as to food i'm still exsperimenting but i'm drying out organic shop brought mushrooms/spinach by wraping in kithcen towel and placing in fridge or in cool airy cubard, i also collect dandelion leaves to dry, plus flowers and clover leaves/ flower's and lichen,plus oats like( scottish) non processed and microwaved and ground up. plus mixed non salted nuts like cashew/brazil/walnut for protein and fats once all these items are dry aprt from nuts which have the natural oils i grind this mix alltogether and store in fridge with a small bit of clingfilm between the tight fitting lid for (maybe)exstra freshness.

also stu i keep my cultures in a non heated room away from fly cultures and to be honest i think it benifits them the cooler temps.as in winter they wuold have a dormant period.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

leonh said:


> Hi stu hope your good,as it goes i,m trying to culture these at the moment and i admit when i first tried culturing them over a year ago the culture crashed also very quickly within a week.
> 
> but fast forward and i've been trying again for last 3 weeks or so and there doing much better,not booming yet but are still alive.
> 
> ...


Hi Leon hope you and yours are well too mate and i'll chuck in a merry chrmbo too.
Massive thanks for the detail,we''l be having a crack soon on these. I read about your wild foraging,for the springtails food very interesting,about the clover and dandelion,fascinating i know why you are doing this.
We are really going for it on the springculturing at present due to the numbers of froglets that could grace us,so all these things and especially the details are of great use,we have various methods on the go and i have just ,I THINK,managed to isolate another species that came here in a woodlice culture, might be another spring,sorry, to our bow. We are in very much uncharted territory now,so you can tell how much we appreciate your above post,thanks for the help mate
Stu


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

leonh said:


> Hi stu hope your good,as it goes i,m trying to culture these at the moment and i admit when i first tried culturing them over a year ago the culture crashed also very quickly within a week.
> 
> but fast forward and i've been trying again for last 3 weeks or so and there doing much better,not booming yet but are still alive.
> 
> ...


You cannot see mite eggs in dirt with the naked eye. Mites are everywhere. I'm afraid this may become a problem with this culturing method.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

when we went to Peru with Understory last year, every time Mark places down a white board, the amount and different types of spring tails that came on was pretty amazing, some solid blue, and some just flat out large.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> You cannot see mite eggs in dirt with the naked eye. Mites are everywhere. I'm afraid this may become a problem with this culturing method.


I'm with Doug, you cannot prevent mites from occuring in the substrate in this cuture method. 

Ed


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## leonh (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi stu i hope your well and a merry christmas to both of you and the frogs lol,as to my methods i hope they can help as its still kind of an exsperiment and i am changing things alot.

as it goes i've only started adding twigs again for more surface area/hide spots but i do like multiple organics as it gives the springs in there more choice of food diversity,and when i go collecting bugs /sieveing i find alot of springs and literally 100's of other tiny bugs in the collection tub from were i collect the soil leaves, and see at least several different types of insects in there of each species 

It's such a rewarding feeling when you place the collected stuff in the frogs viv and they literally go mad for it i remember when i first ever did it and i've never seen frogs get so excited.

another tip i also do is slightly spray the collected insects when there in the viv on the food dish with water (only slighty)as the leaf mold can stick as they strike the food

with regards to cursed nemertean worms and snails i'm working on and idea that once the food is collected is to plaice it on kithcen towel on mesh in a burlese funnel that i will get round to making,the idea is that any fast moving scurring insects can get down the shoot quick while slow moving worms and snails dry out quickly.

Also i do agree with both Doug and Edd,and i was concerned about introducing predatory mites and scuttle flies but so far it seems to be good.but i will keep an eye out.

as to why i don't use coco fibre in my cultures anymore is i was reading a vivarium book a couple years back and it said it holds salt from the beaches were its processed.. ( i did not know this )that now exsplains why when i changed quarantine tubs the frogs always jumped about like it was iritating them

anyway hope some idea's help stu and i must say your having brilliant success with your collection and the viv's are stunning all the best.


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## leonh (Jul 3, 2011)

funny also you mention that Julio all though i dont think the climate of the uk compares to peru,i would love to go out to an area where our frogs naturaly occur ,but the i place also have the most luck with collecting things is on a large bit of board say like 7feet by 4 that had foam attached to the underneath of it and this was covered in fallen leaves about two inches thick.

so when i found it and it is a brilliant collecting area i bate it with fish food/oats etc. and can sometimes collect good amounts rite up till this month uk season,as the foam acts as the insulator against cold ground.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

leonh said:


> funny also you mention that Julio all though i dont think the climate of the uk compares to peru,i would love to go out to an area where our frogs naturaly occur ,but the i place also have the most luck with collecting things is on a large bit of board say like 7feet by 4 that had foam attached to the underneath of it and this was covered in fallen leaves about two inches thick.
> 
> so when i found it and it is a brilliant collecting area i bate it with fish food/oats etc. and can sometimes collect good amounts rite up till this month uk season,as the foam acts as the insulator against cold ground.


You're braver than I am. With all these collections from the wild it seems like you are really tempting fate. I would be worried about eventually introducing something deadly nasty like Chytrid.


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## leonh (Jul 3, 2011)

Hi pumilio,yeah i do understand i'm taking risk's all the time when i go and collect stuff but to be honest i think the beniefits far out way the negative in terms of variation of food and amount caught.

Chytrid is a horrible desease from what i've read but i have always tried to collect from safe area's away from roads/farmland any where chemicals may have been used,and as it goes i've regulary collected food for 10 years or so with know problems,i once raised a batch of 40 or so leucomelas and thats all they had i would go twice a day and they seemed to love what they were having.sometimes on a good day the tub can be alive with a mass of insects.

i keep a few checks of what i catch trying to avoid large growing spiders centipedes predator beetle larvae also.

I think i also give credit to Mark at dartfrog uk as it was a video i got years ago that gave me the idea and i'm convinced it helps with breeding,i like to look at it as with us in that if you grow your own veg it tastes so much better than shop brought/same with meat in that people who eat deer/wild boar say it's very rich compared to shop brought meat all though i would not do this and couldn't afford it anyway.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Chytrid has nothing to do with chemicals. It is a fungus spreading across the planet. It could be found anywhere.


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## leonh (Jul 3, 2011)

Damm lol,im just getting with it from a late night the brains not functoning yet lol. i was meant to say that in the first post but then went in to chemicals,but yeah i do understand that it can be in the enviroment allready possibly through native amphibian populations.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

OK, kind of sounded like you might think it was caused by or triggered by chemicals.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

leonh said:


> Hi stu i hope your well and a merry christmas to both of you and the frogs lol,as to my methods i hope they can help as its still kind of an exsperiment and i am changing things alot.
> 
> as it goes i've only started adding twigs again for more surface area/hide spots but i do like multiple organics as it gives the springs in there more choice of food diversity,and when i go collecting bugs /sieveing i find alot of springs and literally 100's of other tiny bugs in the collection tub from were i collect the soil leaves, and see at least several different types of insects in there of each species
> 
> ...


Yes Leon your idea do help i do pass all my leaflitter through the microwave in an effort to have a clean monoculture but i also knew about your burlese funel. Even our readybreay gets microwaved that makes up part of their diet,i managed to set the timer a bit too long the other day Leon had the stuff smoking ah well.But because we grow so much we now use alot of our organic veg peelings to suppliment this,Doug's edible substrate or our take onit has been superb for our woodlice

We also utilise wild grub most of it is collect here,i also appreciate the potential risks,Ed has made me aware. Doug maybe the uk hobby makes more use of the wildgrub than you guys over there,for me it harks back to when i kept phibs as a child and there were no cultures.So all our grub apart from mealworms(i wasn't keeping darts then) was wild caught. I am very careful about where we collect though,alot of mine comes from places where it is very unlikely to find a native amphibian.Are there others vectors for the transmission of chytrid?i believe it need moisture to travel as well?
Leon thanks for the kind words on the vivs and our first dart breeding season lets hope we are able to enjoy many more
All of you thanks for the help and time you have taken to aid us, 
happy chistmas
Stu


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## leonh (Jul 3, 2011)

No sorry there pumilio i knew it wasn't caused by chemicals,and that it was more bacteria/fungus origon,i when i was typing i was very tired so it probally didn't come out right.

All though when i mentioned chemicals i was pointing out for the time i've collected things it's more than likely it would be contaminated with chemicals if i was not being carefull than to get chytrid ("hopefully") as i know its a horrible thing that can wipe out whole populations.

I remember reading somewhere that if you were to get it not only will it wipe out your collection but will contaminate the frog room for years..don't know though.

And yes stu i can understand you microwaving leaves etc as if i get problems i will do this again but so far its going well,and i know you work very hard with your collection in terms of food culturing and you are having brilliant success it's very inspiring,you really have come leaps and bounds and i know you will do well in this hobby all the best.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stu&shaz said:


> \
> We also utilise wild grub most of it is collect here,i also appreciate the potential risks,Ed has made me aware. Doug maybe the uk hobby makes more use of the wildgrub than you guys over there,for me it harks back to when i kept phibs as a child and there were no cultures.So all our grub apart from mealworms(i wasn't keeping darts then) was wild caught. I am very careful about where we collect though,alot of mine comes from places where it is very unlikely to find a native amphibian.Are there others vectors for the transmission of chytrid?i believe it need moisture to travel as well?


There is more of a tradition in utilizing wild collected invertebrates as a food source for animals in Europe.. There are inherent risks in doing this that extend far past chytrid, for example coccidia, viruses (see Experimental Infection of Crickets (Gryllus Bimaculatus) with an Invertebrate Iridovirus Isolated from a High-Casqued Chameleon (Chamaeleo Hoehnelii) (free access) and Occurrence of an Invertebrate Iridescent-Like Virus (Iridoviridae) in Reptiles - Just - 2008 - Journal of Veterinary Medicine, Series B - Wiley Online Library (not free access)..... 

There are a number of people that do utiliize collected feeders (like termites or meadow plankton but these tend to be more of a minority). For those who are interested in using meadow plankton a bug bazooka is invaluable (see The Bug Bazooka) . 

Ed


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Ed said:


> There is more of a tradition in utilizing wild collected invertebrates as a food source for animals in Europe.. There are inherent risks in doing this that extend far past chytrid, for example coccidia, viruses (see Experimental Infection of Crickets (Gryllus Bimaculatus) with an Invertebrate Iridovirus Isolated from a High-Casqued Chameleon (Chamaeleo Hoehnelii) (free access) and Occurrence of an Invertebrate Iridescent-Like Virus (Iridoviridae) in Reptiles - Just - 2008 - Journal of Veterinary Medicine, Series B - Wiley Online Library (not free access).....
> 
> There are a number of people that do utiliize collected feeders (like termites or meadow plankton but these tend to be more of a minority). For those who are interested in using meadow plankton a bug bazooka is invaluable (see The Bug Bazooka) .
> 
> Ed


Thanks for the links Ed,a question: how do we know that our cultures, which are the mainstay for most of us, are not infected with potential hazards,I'm not really playing devils advocate here,i'm genuinely curious. A mono culture of anything always seems to have the potential for a higher disease risk. Also if many bugs are cultured in the same place then those risks must surely be greater again. We try really hard to buy in very few cultures,its that old closed flock that poultrymen use i guess swaying me,but i'm also being swayed be the little experiance i have of new cultures.3 of our 4 ff cultures that we bought in contained,so many mites we had a real fight to get one through and lost 2,the remaining 2 strains are going great now for nearly a year and over a year and ahalf,2 out of 3 woodlice starters contaminated with something i did not want, and 2 out of 3 springtails.Not a great start really and one can see why all this has lead me to almost feel safer about my wildgrub. I would think that multiple culturing of the same starter over time will lead to a state of safety,as one would think that any viruses,would either cause culture collapses or have some other adverse effect. I do realise that contamination with mites is not a potential hazard to the frogs(unless it is possible for the mite to carry something),we feed these mites to froglets when present
Special thanks for the bug bazooka,i actually thought it was going to be a pooter,something we use quite abit.
Thanks
Stu


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

leonh said:


> No sorry there pumilio i knew it wasn't caused by chemicals,and that it was more bacteria/fungus origon,i when i was typing i was very tired so it probally didn't come out right.
> 
> All though when i mentioned chemicals i was pointing out for the time i've collected things it's more than likely it would be contaminated with chemicals if i was not being carefull than to get chytrid ("hopefully") as i know its a horrible thing that can wipe out whole populations.
> 
> ...


Very kind Leon,these frogs are very important to us,and so much fun to care for,its difficult not to graft at it thanks mate
merry chrimbo

Stu


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stu&shaz said:


> Thanks for the links Ed,a question: how do we know that our cultures, which are the mainstay for most of us, are not infected with potential hazards,I'm not really playing devils advocate here,i'm genuinely curious. A mono culture of anything always seems to have the potential for a higher disease risk.


The difference is that with a few exceptions, the parasites and pathogens cannot reproduce within the cultures or be transmitted vertically so with every generation, or new cultures the chance actually decreases. This is because there is no reexposure to the pathogens/parasites to keep the risk up. This is not the case with collected feeders from outside as they can potentially be exposed repeatedly. 

The few exceptions are the viruses I linked to above as they can infect multiple generations but they also tend to kill of the invertebrates which over time in the cultures reduces the risk. 

Ed


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Ed said:


> The difference is that with a few exceptions, the parasites and pathogens cannot reproduce within the cultures or be transmitted vertically so with every generation, or new cultures the chance actually decreases. This is because there is no reexposure to the pathogens/parasites to keep the risk up. This is not the case with collected feeders from outside as they can potentially be exposed repeatedly.
> 
> The few exceptions are the viruses I linked to above as they can infect multiple generations but they also tend to kill of the invertebrates which over time in the cultures reduces the risk.
> 
> Ed


As always thankyou for the clarity,
regards
Stu


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Your welcome. In general, there main thing to recommend if people use outside feeders is that they should institute a fecal program so they can keep an eye on any potential parasite load the frogs may have. See this post here and the thread in general http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...regular-treatment-parasites-4.html#post298624 

Ed


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Ed said:


> Your welcome. In general, there main thing to recommend if people use outside feeders is that they should institute a fecal program so they can keep an eye on any potential parasite load the frogs may have. See this post here and the thread in general http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...regular-treatment-parasites-4.html#post298624
> 
> Ed


Ha the link made me smile Ed,i'm very aware of the thread as it turned on its head some of the things that i believed to be fact,such as flubendezole as being benign,i worked with poultry for many yrs(game and free range rare breeds) worming was the cornerstone of my healthcare,that first paragraph,rocked my little world abit.Anyway,can't argue with the logic of your above post, 
thanks as always
Stu
PS Teddy i seem to have taken another thread off topic again apologies


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stu&shaz said:


> Ha the link made me smile Ed,i'm very aware of the thread as it turned on its head some of the things that i believed to be fact,such as flubendezole as being benign,i worked with poultry for many yrs(game and free range rare breeds) worming was the cornerstone of my healthcare,that first paragraph,rocked my little world abit.Anyway,can't argue with the logic of your above post,
> thanks as always
> Stu
> PS Teddy i seem to have taken another thread off topic again apologies


 
Yeah, panacure isn't as benign as was once thought.. there have been problems with several different taxa besides birds. 

Ed


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Ed said:


> Yeah, panacure isn't as benign as was once thought.. there have been problems with several different taxa besides birds.
> 
> Ed


Always Ed thankyou for your wisdom.
To get this back to where this all started,common iso/springs,is there any information available as to how long each of the illustrated species take to reproduce,ie maturity times,and to further that how many offspring(an average is cool) will a female produce.My thinking is once we get an ideal culture media set at the right temperature for each species,then these 2 factors will be some of the most important factors governing which feeders to utilise for many folks.
regards
Stu


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stu&shaz said:


> Always Ed thankyou for your wisdom.
> To get this back to where this all started,common iso/springs,is there any information available as to how long each of the illustrated species take to reproduce,ie maturity times,and to further that how many offspring(an average is cool) will a female produce.My thinking is once we get an ideal culture media set at the right temperature for each species,then these 2 factors will be some of the most important factors governing which feeders to utilise for many folks.
> regards
> Stu


The temperature and time is somewhat variable within and between species. Most of the ones commonly being cultured in the US have a fairly rapid reproductive cycles (within a few months) while some of the temperate isopods can take 15 months to reach sexual maturity and begin breeding. 

Ed


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Ed said:


> The temperature and time is somewhat variable within and between species. Most of the ones commonly being cultured in the US have a fairly rapid reproductive cycles (within a few months) while some of the temperate isopods can take 15 months to reach sexual maturity and begin breeding.
> 
> Ed


Thankyou,sorry for not replying last year
happy new year Ed
Shaz and me


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