# Frogs huddled together in corner?



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

I have an azureus and auratus both the same size in the same cage. They were in a 10 gallon tank with some type of repti-moss. I recently put them in a 20 gallon tank with eco-earth. The crickets were hard for them to get because it would crawl under the moss in the last cage so I was hoping this dirt type stuff would help. The humidity is fine, I have a fogger on the tank. the temperature is room temperature, and i havea a 60 watt bulb on one end of the tank. I woke up this morning and they were both huddled together in a corner of the tank. Does this mean anything bad ? They also had dirt all over them, I poured some lukewarm water on top of them to get it off. Is it the stress of the move? I just moved them last night, and handled them from one cage to the other, less than 10 seconds. I'm just concerned that there is something wrong. thanks.


----------



## joshbaker14t (Jun 11, 2012)

Just about everything is wrong...


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Can you explain why? you weren't of much help.
Ive kept them for over a year in the 10 gallon, on a fogger, with repti-moss. And last night I just switched them to a 20 gallon seeing as they've grown I thought I'd give them a little more space.

I didn't put a bulb on the 10 gallon, but I put this bulb in one of the corners of the tank just in case they want to choose the heat. I added the bulb after I found them huddling together.
There is a small pool of water in one of the corners of the cage, which I see them laying in sometimes. There is also several live plants in the tank.
I just put a thermometer in the tank, but it is the same temperature they have been in for the past year.

They both ate well in the last cage, and were very active during the day.

They have been in the 20 gallon tank for about 12 hours, and I've never seen them huddled before.
My question is: Should I change the substrate back to moss? The eco-earth was sticking to their legs and such. is this a problem?
Also, What does them huddling together mean?


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi. Glad you came by because we need to talk 

IMO:

1) Separate those frogs into two 10g tanks for now. Or one in the old 10g and one in the new 20g. 

2) No heat lights needed unless your home is unnaturally cold. They prefer temps in the 70s. 

3) The substrate needs to be well draining and there should be a drainage layer or false bottom for the water to drain into. Do you have a drainage area? My default substrate is orchid bark, crunched up 100% natural charcoal, a handful or so of the eco earth, crunched up leaves. 

4) Bare eco-earth sticks to the frogs. Makes them look like frog cookies rolled in chocolate sprinkles. Put a thick layer of dried leaves on top of the substrate. The frogs will use this to hide and feel more comfortable and it will keep the dirt from covering them. 

If you post a picture of their tank we may be able to assist you better.

eta: Spend some time in the 'construction' area of the site and you'll see lots of good examples of healthy tank builds. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks for the tips. The temperature is in the 70's, so I will take off the lamp. Can you tell me more about these leaves? I wouldn't want to just go outside and grab some leaves would I? Should I go back to moss?

I will do something about the substrate, but it sticking to them for now, is that going to hurt them?
do you know why they were huddled together in a corner earlier this morning?


Here is the new tank.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

What kind of lid do you have?


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think they were huddled together because they are in a strange place and there is not enough cover for them to feel comfortable.

Leaves you can collect yourself. They should be dead leaves. They should be from an area that has not been fertilized or treated for bugs etc. Oak leaves are good. I think most leaves are fine. I boil mine and let them dry again, just to get the spiders and other bugs out of it. Not everyone bothers with that. 

If you have anything that you can put into their tank, for now, to provide them with additional cover, I think they'd appreciate it. Oddly, the more cover they have, the more they come out in the open. I think it has to do with feeling safe.

eta: Here's an example of leaf litter in a tank. This tank has lots of leaves but needs more plants.


----------



## joshbaker14t (Jun 11, 2012)

Also don't use tap water to rinse them off, mist with r.o. or distilled to get the substrate off them...


----------



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Looks like a screen lid to me. Another reason why they might be in a corner, not enough humidity. They need a glass covered lid to keep in humidity. Also use anything to cover that coco fiber, that stuff does stick to them like crazy and will cause them stress. And I would suggest tons of leaf litter, the tank looks very bare, so adding leaf litter will make them feel more secure.


----------



## Kalakole (Jun 30, 2011)

If you dont wanna spring for a glass top right no, pqcking tape or saran wrap works well too.


----------



## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Now i do not have the background to make definitive claims but from what i have read throughout this board is the frogs being covered with the eco earth can block their ability to osmoregulate. In short they cant cool down by evaporation, or hydrate through their seat patch. I suggest seperating them immediately (i think someone with more experience should pm the op and explain). Add lots of oak leaves and for a temp solution put some plastic wrapover the tanks to keep in humidity.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Thanks for the tips, as soon as I get home I will boil some leaves and put them in the cage. I used to cover the top of the cage, until I started using a fogger. Do you really think it is necessary for a glass top when using a fogger?

And I used distilled water when i poured it over top of them, and I also use distilled in the fogger.

Thanks for the help ya'll


----------



## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

omglogan said:


> Thanks for the tips, as soon as I get home I will boil some leaves and put them in the cage. I used to cover the top of the cage, until I started using a fogger. Do you really think it is necessary for a glass top when using a fogger?
> 
> And I used distilled water when i poured it over top of them, and I also use distilled in the fogger.
> 
> Thanks for the help ya'll


Hey thanks for taking advice. I must say not all people who come here are as accepting. Stick around and check out the board. Lots of good people here, and you already have some on this thread. Im sure i speak for alot of people on here when i say dont hesitate to ask for help personally. Im still a noobie, and learn alot here.


----------



## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

It will be very important to make a few changes.

1) Get your 10 gallon tank back out and put one of the frogs in it. The two different species of frogs will NOT do well in the same tank. One of them will get larger than the other and the fighting will probably lead to the death of one of your frogs very soon.

2) Follow the previous advise to put some leaves and things in it.

3) You can get a piece of glass or plastic from Lowes or Home Depot to cover most of the scree and to prevent humidity form getting out. You may want to leave about 10-20% of the screen uncovered for some passive air movement.

4) Don't dump water on the frogs. Just spray the tank down with a misting sprayer. I like to have a small dish of water in the tank for them to soak in, if they wish.

Remember, these animals are not like fish. They don't tend to do well with other types of frogs in the same tank. They will do some hiding because they are naturally shy. You will want to provide them with hiding places or the stress will get to them. Welcome and I hope you can make the suggested changes.


----------



## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

Good move coming here to ask questions. There is much to be learned from this board. The best thing to do would be to make some of those changes suggested above and when you do, try to avoid constant checking on them (I know, it's very hard to do) and let them settle in. During that time, research basic poison dart frog care. If you do your reading and are patient, your frogs will live long happy lives and you'll enjoy them very much. The more cover they have and the more they are left alone, the more you will see and enjoy them.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Even with a fogger, they should have a glass lid; at least mostly. Leaving section of it screened for ventilation is fine. I do that.


----------



## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

There is a lot to learn and a lot of good advice and tips from good people on this board. Sit down and spend a couple of hours a night doing your research on this board. You will always find something new to help you succeed with your frogs and research is necessary.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

I did some research before I put the Auratus in with the Azureus. and I got my information from this site. Poison Dart Frogs Poison Arrow Frogs Dart Frogs & Poison Arrow Dart Frogs Terrarium Animals from Saurian Enterprises, Inc.

It says that the two will do fine together. I'm not saying this is correct, I am trying to show where I am coming from.
They have been together for the past year and they are both the same size and I see them together all of the time.


----------



## swampfoxjjr (Nov 13, 2007)

So, I think the rest of the folks in the thread have given some stellar advice. Just a few other quick notes about your latest post.

1. A single Auratus and Azureus can probably cohabitate without doomsday events. The website you got your information from belongs to a very experienced member of the dart frog community. That said, the prevailing winds of this hobby tend to favor separating our animals based on the different areas of south / central america where they are found in the wild. Most people will advocate keeping an Auratus and Azureus in different enclosures.

2. It probably will not be a problem given the current conditions you are keeping the animals in, but as they grow and if you make some of the recommended changes listed in this thread, there is a chance your animals will reach breeding age. Another prevailing wind in the hobby is to make an effort to minimize breeding animals from different localities / subspecies. Your animals would fall into this category. I would encourage you to use the search function on this forum to get more information on this subject. Posting about it in a general manner without doing so can have some very negative consequences for a new member such as yourself.

3. I am assuming that if your animals have lasted for a year in the ten gallon environment that the crickets you feed are at least of a suitable size. I would strongly encourage you to begin researching how to culture flightless fruit flies. Depending on the local pet shop to always have the tiny crickets on hand can lead you to problems down the road. Being somewhat self-sufficient in providing food for your animals is usually for the best.

Finally, please note that all of us here just want to see your animals thrive. Nothing personal.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

omglogan said:


> I poured some lukewarm water on top of them to get it off





omglogan said:


> And I used distilled water when i poured it over top of them, and I also use distilled in the fogger.


Where did you get lukewarm distilled water? 

How do you define "lukewarm"?? 

Tap water for a short immersion like this is typically fine unless the chlorine levels are so high it is irritating to your eyes when you take a shower..... 

One of the primary reasons they are huddled in the corner is because they are terrified since 
1) they are in an unfamilar space
2) they are being covered with ground coconut husk (which may contain significant levels of salt see http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/34/1/88.full.pdf).... 
3) they are being manipulated to remove the covering of ground coconut.... 

A period of time to allow the ground coconut husk to age in typically helps prevent this sticking and if the husk is being flushed and water is being changed from the tank, this reduces and eventually removes any excess salt deposit although a flow through system is the best option. 

Some comments 

Ed


----------



## Boyd75 (Dec 26, 2012)

What makes the best "main" non stick substrate?


----------



## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Boyd75 said:


> What makes the best "main" non stick substrate?


leaf litter over substrate.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Ed said:


> Where did you get lukewarm distilled water?
> 
> How do you define "lukewarm"??
> 
> ...


I put distilled water in the fogger, I used the water in the fogger's water 'container/holder' thing to pour over top of the frogs, the container had sat out over night and was lukewarm.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

I will try to post an updated picture of the enclosure when I get home at about 3:00. Until then, thank you for the advice


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm still new to all this too...but somewhere I've read that distilled water is not the best water to use for their hydration...that spring water has minerals that the distilled does not. Is the fogger on constantly, how many times a day...is it a cool mist fogger??? Welcome to DB...the "oldtimers" will set you straight!!!


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

If at all possible, set up the enclosure(s) as completely as possible before moving the frogs so as to minimize their stress. Check out this sticky http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/11865-good-threads-read-beginners.html in the beginners section, it has lots of helpful links. And if you post your general location in your profile info, there may be some local froggers who can help you with places or suggestions about where they buy their supplies from, which may save you some searching.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

omglogan said:


> I put distilled water in the fogger, I used the water in the fogger's water 'container/holder' thing to pour over top of the frogs, the container had sat out over night and was lukewarm.


If the water felt at all warm to your hand then it means it was warmer than your body temperature... Typically this is meant to refer to water that is between 98 and 105 F... Much too hot to be poured over frogs that are at "room temperature"... Room temperature at this time of year is typically somewhere between 65 and 75 F (depending on a number of factors including how the thermostat is set...) so a sudden 20-30 F thermal shock is not good for the frogs..... 

Some ultrasonic/cool mist humidifiers warm the water in thier chambers as a cooling mechanism for the motor without impacting the mist temperature as the mist rapidly cools back down by having some of it's makeup evaporating... this can easily result in water in the humidifier being fairly warm..... 

Some comments 

Ed


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Judy S said:


> I'm still new to all this too...but somewhere I've read that distilled water is not the best water to use for their hydration...


Judy, 

this may help explain the discrepancy http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/70300-water-discussion.html 

Ed


----------



## Fishbone (Dec 12, 2012)

I'm new here also, I've been reading for what seems like months!
There's lots of info here and good people to guide you/us.

One thing I noticed, I thought I saw you using a dial thermometer that has a humidity indicator...these are very in-accurate.
I would use a digital thermometer with a probe to read temp/humidity.

Good luck and keep us posted on their progress.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

I am aware that dial thermo's and hygro's are terrible. It was given to me for free along with this 20 gallon tank, so I just stuck it to the wall for the heck of it. I have several thermometers with probes. Here are some updated pictures after adding leaves ( That I boiled in water ) and another plant(fake).

I keep the fogger on all day while I am at school and work, turn it off when I get home, and then turn it back on when I sleep.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Feed them fruit flies, not crickets


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Those dart frogs do not live in a cloud forest and excessive moisture is not necessarily a good thing for them. So running a humidifier that much can be a problem... 

Some comments 

Ed


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Ed said:


> Those dart frogs do not live in a cloud forest and excessive moisture is not necessarily a good thing for them. So running a humidifier that much can be a problem...
> 
> Some comments
> 
> ...


The fogger has different settings. It's set on low output while I am away for awhile


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Are those plants plastic? They look like it. I'd like to suggest you buy some live plants (for several reasons, which I'm sure people will expound on, including suggestion or links to suitable plants as well as places to get them from), but first what are you using for lighting, and what is your approximate budget for the care of your frogs? 

Having an idea of budget will help people make suggestions that are in your price range, while still being just as good for your frogs health.

Edit: Also, adding an approximate geological location will allow people who live in the area who are more familiar with the climate make helpful suggestions. For example, some of the people who live in Arizona have tricks for dealing with heat and aridity, while people from norther climes may have suggestions for the winter.


----------



## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

omglogan said:


> The fogger has different settings. It's set on low output while I am away for awhile


That's still the wrong thing to do. Get a piece of glass cut to fit the top and remove the humidifier. Also, add some live plants. I have some for sale right now, so just PM me if you would like any.

D


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

jacobi said:


> Are those plants plastic? They look like it. I'd like to suggest you buy some live plants (for several reasons, which I'm sure people will expound on, including suggestion or links to suitable plants as well as places to get them from), but first what are you using for lighting, and what is your approximate budget for the care of your frogs?
> 
> Having an idea of budget will help people make suggestions that are in your price range, while still being just as good for your frogs health.
> 
> Edit: Also, adding an approximate geological location will allow people who live in the area who are more familiar with the climate make helpful suggestions. For example, some of the people who live in Arizona have tricks for dealing with heat and aridity, while people from norther climes may have suggestions for the winter.


2 of them are live, one of them is fake


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Plants don't have to be anything fancy. You can just throw some pothos vines in there. Really, until you put in a good substrate, pothos might be your best bet.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Dendroguy said:


> That's still the wrong thing to do. Get a piece of glass cut to fit the top and remove the humidifier. Also, add some live plants. I have some for sale right now, so just PM me if you would like any.
> 
> D


It's either not enough or too much.

I can't please you all ._.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Don't worry about pleasing us. We don't matter. The only concern is what is best for your frogs.


----------



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

There's nothing here that I can add that others haven't already said.

What I can say is that any newcomers should use this as an example as to why it is important to research BEFORE you buy frogs, not after. Alot of the problems you're having could've easily been avoided. 

Luckily, you asked for help in enough time bc this might have not went so well. 

We've all made mistakes, so I'm not gonna harp on you about it; that would be hypocritical. I just hope you've learned a valuable lesson ... knowledge is a powerful tool. 

I hope your frogs are doing better & that they make it thru the transition to proper husbandry ok. Good luck & keep us posted.

Oh yeah ... Welcome to the hobby


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Gamble said:


> There's nothing here that I can add that others haven't already said.
> 
> What I can say is that any newcomers should use this as an example as to why it is important to research BEFORE you buy frogs, not after. Alot of the problems you're having could've easily been avoided.
> 
> ...


I have had them for just over a year. 
I did do research before I got them of course, or I'm sure they would have perished by now.

The problems listed in this thread are because I just recently swapped their enclosure. Which is why I came here, because I realized there was a problem. 
I wouldn't say there was a problem in the last cage.

So I don't appreciate being accused of not doing research "BEFORE" I bought the frogs.
that is all


----------



## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

omglogan said:


> I have had them for just over a year.
> I did do research before I got them of course, or I'm sure they would have perished by now.
> 
> The problems listed in this thread are because I just recently swapped their enclosure. Which is why I came here, because I realized there was a problem.
> ...


I don't think anyone is wanting to hurt your feelings. We have all learned a lot about what is the best care for frogs. You did do some good research and supported why you made some decisions. However, there are even better ways to do things that can help improve your frogs health and life. Please understand that everyone is just wanting to help you provide the frogs with the best care 

If you want one single suggestion I would say to add leaves and hiding spots. If you want more suggestions you can read the previous posts


----------



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

omglogan said:


> I have had them for just over a year.
> I did do research before I got them of course, or I'm sure they would have perished by now.
> 
> The problems listed in this thread are because I just recently swapped their enclosure. Which is why I came here, because I realized there was a problem.
> ...


Look, I was trying to be polite. 
But since you wanted to get defensive:

Just bc you had them for over a year, it doesn't necessarily mean you did things the "right" way. There's a difference between keeping something alive & allowing a creature to thrive.
You may have "researched", but the fact is that EVERYTHING you did here was wrong & creates the impression that you did not. If that offends you, I'm sorry you feel that way.

I'm not gonna go into details & pick apart your post. You've been told what was incorrect & 
I'm not here to rip you apart. I am more than willing to give you advice & help you.
You accepted blame & came here looking for answers. Kudos to you. I commend you for it & I'm glad you did.

I'm just simply pointing out that they could've been avoided.

If that's a problem for you, by all means, PM me. I have no problems continuing this debate privately.
If you would like some advice & help, by all means, PM me & I'd be more than happy to help you anytime.
In the end, I want you to be successful & if I'm able to contribute to that I will.
.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Gamble said:


> Look, I was trying to be polite.
> But since you wanted to get defensive:
> 
> Just bc you had them for over a year, it doesn't necessarily mean you did things the "right" way. There's a difference between keeping something alive & allowing a creature to thrive.
> ...


Everything wrong, really?

You did not see the cage prior, so why assume? Why try and bring me down?
I can't stand people who always look down on others, thinking they are superior. 
Unfortunately it is all too common in the reptile/amphibian hobby.

I stated that I had recently moved them to a new cage and I had altered several things.
I came here for advice (about the altered features); which was given, and has been changed.
Not for someone trying to be "polite" but low-key telling me I'm making my frogs miserable and every single thing I am doing is wrong.


----------



## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

omglogan said:


> Everything wrong, really?


Just about,
1) mixing species
2) no drainage layer
3) no glass/sealed in top
4) loose coco husk
5) fake plants
6) poured lukewarm water
7) not culturing fruit flies

I know we've all been there and been a noob but the majority of us research and ask questions BEFORE we added the frogs. Sorry if this is offensive to you, i don't mean for it to be. Im just trying to tell you you pretty much did 90% of the things wrong.
Buddy

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

omglogan said:


> Everything wrong, really?
> 
> You did not see the cage prior, so why assume? Why try and bring me down?
> I can't stand people who always look down on others, thinking they are superior.
> ...


How am I or anyone else here acting superior? Especially since it was pointed out that WE ALL have made mistakes? I think I mentioned the word "help" a few times. I've extended my hand to you, if you want to slap it away then that's your business. Nobody is trying to tear you down, in fact, I think it's the opposite. 

I never said anything about making your frogs miserable. 
The fact is, you did do everything wrong. It's not belittling you when it's the truth.
You made some bad decisions. So what! IT HAPPENS!

Maybe you should stop being defensive about it & accept the fact that it was and use it as a learning experience & grow from it. We have all made mistakes. Guess what ... it's made us better froggers because of it. If you open your mind a little bit & swallow your pride, you will too.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Guys, bashing each other in any shape manner or form is pointless and counterproductive...


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Buddysfrogs said:


> Just about,
> 1) mixing species
> 2) no drainage layer
> 3) no glass/sealed in top
> ...


1As stated before, I researched mixing species. I would not have put them together had my research said otherwise.
2There is a drainage layer. There are clay balls bellow the eco-earth, so I don't know why you are even bringing this up. This was not an issue.
3A glass seal is not essential, I am aware that it helps keep humidity in the tank, but if my hygro is staying in the 90 ish percents with out a glass top, that is not going to keep my frogs from thriving.
4There was loose substrate, which was part of the reason why this was started, I was looking for advice, so yes.
5There are 2 live plants in the tank? I added one more fake plant for "hiding". So you either didn't read the entire thread, or you are just looking for reasons to side with "Gamble"
6Pouring lukewarm water? lukewarm as in, room temperature. I don't think it would be wise to pour hot water on them, I don't think it would be wise to pour cold water on them. So yes, lukewarm. What is the problem here?
7Not culturing fruit flies? This one makes me smile. Calcium coated appropriate sized crickets are just fine.

So yes, the loose eco earth was a problem. That is one problem. I still do not see how this is EVERYTHING.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Gamble said:


> How am I or anyone else here acting superior? Especially since it was pointed out that WE ALL have made mistakes? I think I mentioned the word "help" a few times. I've extended my hand to you, if you want to slap it away then that's your business.
> 
> I never said anything about making your frogs miserable.
> The fact is, you did do everything wrong. It's not belittling you when it's the truth.
> ...


Fair enough. And I was perfectly fine with the "helping hand" until you said I had done EVERYTHING wrong. 
Everything is a stretch.


----------



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

omglogan said:


> Fair enough. And I was perfectly fine with the "helping hand" until you said I had done EVERYTHING wrong.
> Everything is a stretch.


Ok fine, its a stretch. 
Are you ready to move past it and be all that you can be? 
(As Army commercial music plays in the background)


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Just realize your frogs are telling you otherwise. 

If you do not listen to us, listen to them. Their behavior is telling you a lot here.

I do give you credit for understanding that at least something isn't right - that's why you're here.

These type of threads rarely come out OK - so everyone involved deserves a lot of credit for calmly giving (and receiving) good advice.

s


omglogan said:


> 1As stated before, I researched mixing species. I would not have put them together had my research said otherwise.


----------



## omglogan (Oct 15, 2012)

Scott said:


> Just realize your frogs are telling you otherwise.
> 
> If you do not listen to us, listen to them. Their behavior is telling you a lot here.
> 
> ...



Thank you.
Not trying to argue, but may I ask what the frogs are telling me?
The reason why I asked "why are the huddled together ..." was because I had never seen them act this way before.
They were both active, and ate well before the cage swap. So I was leaning toward the new cage as being the factor of their change in behavior.

Edit: I did not, and still do not think that they were acting this way because they are two separate species of Dendrobates. (Although of course I could be wrong) Just basing it off watching there behavior over the course of the year prior


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You said you've had them for about a year, right? That's just about right for them to reach sexual maturity. At that point, they may be affecting each other negatively/aggressively and it can be difficult to spot these issues sometimes. Noticing changes in behavior is one way, though. They *can* kill each other just by stressing each other out. It really would be a good idea for you to go ahead and separate them into 2 tanks. 

I went back and looked at your updated picture again and can see the improvements you made. It does look better. One thing I would do is grab some more leaves, boil them a few minutes, and then let them dry out. Once they are dry, sprinkle them around in the tank to provide areas that the frogs can get under.


----------



## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Ok fine, its a stretch.
> Are you ready to move past it and be all that you can be?
> (As Army commercial music plays in the background)


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

1) Keep the thread on topic people.

2) I was about to state the same thing that Kris did - your frogs are reaching maturity. If the tank didn't change (you're stating it hasn't), they have and they're do not seem to like the current conditions.

s


----------



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Dendroguy said:


> US Army Recruitment Ad (2006) - 'Army Strong' - YouTube


You're a funny guy.

If that didn't make anyone here laugh or atleast smile, then you have no sense of humor whatsoever and I feel sorry for your significant others.


----------



## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Omglogan, how are your frogs doing?


----------

