# Last Frog :(



## btreyes84 (Feb 2, 2011)

My last frog is apparently dead .

I have him in a separate container with a little bit of pedialyte to try and revive him. He seemed to stay in the same part of the terrarium all day yesterday. I noticed that he wasn't around today and I started looking around his terrarium until I found him on his side in the back of the terrarium. He's not moving and I don't seem him breathing. I don't know what else to do right now. 

The frog was a small yellowback tinctorius froglet about the size of a nickel. I've had three other losses, two lost from a temp. drop when the window was left open. I thoroughly cleaned out the plants and the terrarium after the death of the first 3 frogs. My tank is a 15 gallon tall with constant 85% humidity with 2 daily sprays along with some misting from my fogger. The lights are on pretty constant with the exception of a Friday, when the power went off for about 5 hours while I was at work ( the temp should have been in the 60's while this happened). The temperature is around 70 all day and night with the terrarium out of the way of direct sunlight. There are some leaves and a coco hut in his terrarium. I supplement his food with a calcium product that contains vitamin A. He seemed to be eating fine, but he hasn't really grown the entire time that I've had him and he looks really skinny. 

Could it have been from the power going out? I gave him some pedialyte a few days ago, to give him some electrolytes as a preventative measure. I just read that the bottle says that zinc has been added recently to the pedialtye formula. Could this be toxic to my last frog? I'm also wondering if my terrarium needs more shade from my t-5's that are on top of the terrarium. I'll take some pictures in a few hours to give the frog more time in case he's still alive. Should I send the body off to be tested for chyrtid?

I just did a ton of research on the forum this weekend to try to learn more and now I'm feeling kind of lost. I keep/breed seahorses, reefs, and axolotls, so I thought that I would be able to take care of some PDF's. It sucks, because I've working a lot on building an awesome, big terrarium for the little guy, thinking that I could keep him alive. Are poison dart frogs really this difficult and fragile? Are young frogs more difficult than adult ones? I don't know whether I should try again or give up.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear that 

Have you checked the temps of your tanks with the lights on? My little wimpy lights raise my tank temps a few degrees. Can you post a shot of your tank and last frog?


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry to hear you're having trouble getting started. It's best to get the largest juvenile frogs that you can afford, as they are hardier than very young froglets. The breeder of the frogs can be a major issue, as well as if the froglets were bought and sold a couple of times before you purchased them. There are a good number of hobbyist breeders here and I would try to find a breeder locally to work with getting your collection restarted.

Good luck, Richard.


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## btreyes84 (Feb 2, 2011)

here are links to the photos:

photo | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

photo 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Poor little guy. 

Where are you located? I agree with Richard that it would be a good idea to hook up with a local.

Tank looks good to me and you checked humidity and temps. What were you feeding him?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

So how many frogs did you have in that tank? If it was all of them I'd say you had the tank pretty overpopulated. The most obvious cause other then temps may be that you just weren't feeding enough which is suggested by the frogs not seeming to grow much in the time you had them. They should grow fairly rapidly if getting enough food. Also a lack of fat reserves would likely make them more prone to stress from temperature fluctuations. Add in stress from to many frogs in a small tank and you have a recipe for disaster. If you try again I definitely recommend starting with juvis or even adults if possible. Well started frogs are just likely to do better. Probably need to feed them more too.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

btreyes84 said:


> My last frog is apparently dead .
> 
> Are poison dart frogs really this difficult and fragile? Are young frogs more difficult than adult ones? I don't know whether I should try again or give up.


Sorry you are having such a bad go of it. Dart frogs are not that fragile or difficult, and as others have said you are more likely to suffer losses with young frogs especially if they are under 8 weeks from when they morphed out of the water. 

I do not think overcrowding would be an issue, unless you had frogs of different species or ages mixed in the tank. If it was 4 tinctorius froglets they should have been fine until they got many months older. 

If you decide to try again ( which I think you should ..seahorses I imagine are much harder then darts. ) get rid of everything in the tank, and start from scratch, do more research and then some more, keep those temps in the ideal range, find someone local as others suggested to get the big picture, feed well (fruit flies and springtails for starters) and then buy some frogs that are at least 3 months old and in most cases you want to avoid buying from your local pet shop. Ask questions as you go...

Then ... and enjoy your frogs. 

Sally


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

The pictures look as if the last frog did not thrive. Did you feed FF every day? How many per frog? A bunch or just a few? If your frogs did not have parasites, it is possible you did not feed them enough. Are you culturing FF or having to buy from a local store?


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Sorry for your loss. 

You also ought to be using vitamin supps in addition to the calcium. The frogs need it to survive since the fruit flies and calcium is like our eating popcorn and calcium pills and trying to survive off that alone.

I recommend Repashy's vitamin mix---I think it's called Supermin.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Repashy Calcium Plus ICB is pretty much considered an all-in-one...although some people use it in rotation with other vitamins as well. I think this is the one earthfrog is thinking of... it's the one I use too. I really like it. My frogs appear extremely healthy and their colors are very bright.

I am so sorry about your frog.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

WendySHall said:


> Repashy Calcium Plus ICB is pretty much considered an all-in-one...although some people use it in rotation with other vitamins as well. I think this is the one earthfrog is thinking of... it's the one I use too. I really like it. My frogs appear extremely healthy and their colors are very bright.
> 
> I am so sorry about your frog.


No, Repashy's has a separate product called Supermin that has vitamins in a balanced formula. You can use either the Calcium plus ICB or the Supermin. 
My comment was based on the OP's mention of using a Calcium supplement plus vitamin A, which I assumed was just a calcium-alone supp and not an all-in-one like the Repashy formula.


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## btreyes84 (Feb 2, 2011)

Hey Guys,,

I really appreciate all of your feedback. As to your questions, the terrarium temperatures normally rose to the high seventies during the day (because of the strong lights and my house heater). I always fed them enough to have extra fruit flies in the terrarium around, once a day for about 7 flies/frog. I realize now from reading posts that I should have fed them a lot more (twice a day and more flies and other foods). I had also started feeding the last frog springtails and using the banana fly trick right before he died. 


I've decided that I'm going to try again, but this time with older frogs from a preferably local breeder, while trying to keep my temperatures more constant with a larger flow of food into the terrarium. I'm getting rid of all of the stuff in my old terrarium, but I'll probably keep a couple of plants after sterilizing them in a bleach/water solution. Should I get rid of my fruit flies and start over too? 

I have been building a big corner tank terrarium and I'm thinking about sterilizing it just in case there was some kind of cross-contamination. What is the best way to sterilize moss? What about coco fiber Great Stuff walls?


I live in Atlanta if anyone knows any people in Georgia that I could meet. Thanks again everyone.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Once a day feedings should have been sufficient for the frogs. 

There are a lot of people that have great success using just fruit flies as thier sole food source so just flies should be fine as well. 

Ed


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

earthfrog said:


> No, Repashy's has a separate product called Supermin that has vitamins in a balanced formula. You can use either the Calcium plus ICB or the Supermin.
> My comment was based on the OP's mention of using a Calcium supplement plus vitamin A, which I assumed was just a calcium-alone supp and not an all-in-one like the Repashy formula.


Supermin is just vitamins, it only even mentions calcium as "Calcium Carbonate & Dextrose (as carriers)-->"vitamins can be coated or encapsulated into tiny beadlets that are quite stable and resistant to oxidation". Welcome to Repashy Ventures - Reptiles

No % is listed like it is on Calcium plus. Calcium plus is the all in one supplement. If you are only dusting with supermin you probably need a calcium supplement. The calcium/dextrose coating may not be enough. It does have D3 in it though so you wouldn't probably need a calcium d3 powder, just plain calcium.

Calcium plus contains both the calcium (18%), the vitamins, the d3, and adds a little protein (10%), fat (1%and fiber to the mix also. Supermin does not. Neither contain phosphorus as the animals will probably get plenty from the insects and it can throw off the calcium uptake if there is to much, possibly other vitamins too...I forget exactly, but its something like that. The ratio is very important.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I've been using both at 50/50 for over two years with no issues, and feeding once per week/week and a half heavily, more often for froglets obviously.


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

btreyes84 said:


> I always fed them enough to have extra fruit flies in the terrarium around, once a day for about 7 flies/frog.


Hey Ed,

Once a day feeding is what I do, but the way I read this I'm thinking he is saying he fed 7 flies per frog per day. That's way too low, correct?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

earthfrog said:


> I've been using both at 50/50 for over two years with no issues, and feeding once per week/week and a half heavily, more often for froglets obviously.


If you're using both then your frogs are getting at least some of required calcium because of the calcium plus powder, so you'd be unlikely to experience issues. If you were only using the supermin then you'd be more likely to experience calcium issues.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Dendro Dave said:


> If you're using both then your frogs are getting at least some of required calcium because of the calcium plus powder, so you'd be unlikely to experience issues. If you were only using the supermin then you'd be more likely to experience calcium issues.


That, and I have a glut of isopods in my tanks


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

freaky_tah said:


> Hey Ed,
> 
> Once a day feeding is what I do, but the way I read this I'm thinking he is saying he fed 7 flies per frog per day. That's way too low, correct?


Yes, seven flies per frog depending on just the temperature may have been just sufficient to support a resting metabolism (not including foraging). I was responding to his thought that he needed to feed twice a day. 

Ed


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Ed said:


> Yes, seven flies per frog depending on just the temperature may have been just sufficient to support a resting metabolism (not including foraging). I was responding to his thought that he needed to feed twice a day.
> 
> Ed


That's what I figured but I was just making sure


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