# Is this a man creeks or a blue jeans?



## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Trying to figure out if he's a man creeks or a blue jeans? Thanks in advance.


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## boricorso (Feb 19, 2008)

Its a beatifull O. Pumilio.

Probably a Mancreek....looks just like 2, I had and were sold to me as Mancreeks. W/out more info its impossible to tell.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks guys now does anyone have an adult female Man Creeks.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Check this out Oophaga pumilio Morphguide. I would say with almost 100% certainty that they are either man creeks or almirante. Unfortunately they look very similar and without site specific data you will never know. Best thing is to find out where you got them from and see if they have any more.
J


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Heres the thing, this is where I get confused the Blue Jeans have blue arms up to the elbow and Almirante's have blue up to the wrist. Now my guy has one blue arm up to the elbow and one up to the wrist? He also has some light blue specks on the legs but not to many.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

if you look at the coloration on the legs the blue jeans are blue, while the almirante and mancreeks are more of a grayish colorations. Here some pics of actual blue jeans so you can see.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

joematrix said:


> Heres the thing, this is where I get confused the Blue Jeans have blue arms up to the elbow and Almirante's have blue up to the wrist. Now my guy has one blue arm up to the elbow and one up to the wrist? He also has some light blue specks on the legs but not to many.


Where and when the blue color stops and starts is really not a determining factor. I have seen man creeks with just blue feet and I have seen it where the blue color goes all the way to the beginning of the belly. Its really the color we are using to determine what it is. Where did you get them? You have to be careful, alot of people on kingsnake label them as blue jeans when in fact they are man creeks or almirante.
J


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## boricorso (Feb 19, 2008)

I have seen pictures of Blue Jeans with grayish legs and almirante and mancreeks with blue legs.

I used to have a mancreek/almirante/? With very dark blue legs.

keep asking before you decide to lable it as something that it might not be. Im sure the more experienced keepers will soon chime in.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

boricorso said:


> I have seen pictures of Blue Jeans with grayish legs and almirante and mancreeks with blue legs.
> 
> I used to have a mancreek/almirante/? With very dark blue legs.
> 
> keep asking before you decide to lable it as something that it might not be. Im sure the more experienced keepers will soon chime in.


I have purchased large lots of man creeks and almirantes. Yes they do vary in color but what his picturess are of are not blue jeans. I have owned blue jeans and seen them for my own eyes. Once you see them in person there is no way one could confuse the two.
J


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah it's pretty hard to confuse the two if you see them in person - blue jeans are actually a little bigger also


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## boricorso (Feb 19, 2008)

As I said, the more experience people would chime in.

I totally agree, they are not blue jeans. And Im not even close to being an expert.

The only reason I said they vary in color and/or amount of color was to let the OP know that he should not use it as a guideline in order to determine what his frog is.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Called the place I got it from they don't open till 12 pm EST it was listed on the sale sheet from the breeder as an almirante so that clears it up for me Thanks Guy's.


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## Occidentalis (Jul 11, 2009)

If you have to ask, they probably aren't blue jeans.

Glad you could clear it up on your end.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Ok now I'm really blown away. I received my female manscreek today and believe me there is way to much of a difference between the two. Here's a link to what my male looks like in person Dendrobates World pretty much a spitting image. Now what I got today I know for sure is a manscreek but the second he saw her he started calling and has been calling all day. My male finally got the female to follow him to the brom he's been quite ever since I will post pic's later on tonight when I can get them together there is a very big difference.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah they can be different colors - especially if one is a Man Creek and one is an Almirante. I think I saw Aaron say that the Almirantes were much brighter


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

this is Almirante understory lines


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

joematrix said:


> Here's a link to what my male looks like in person Dendrobates World pretty much a spitting image.


Not saying we don't believe you.....

but

we don't believe you..

please take a pic with your own camera


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Thank you, I sent Chris van der Lingen of Dendrobates World some pictures to see if I could get a clear answer.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Some of the MC's look a lot like BJ.....they can. Very rare. Usually you can get some bright red and the grey legs somehow look a little blue, but it only gets to be a close likeness. It only causes new hobbyists to get excited...not the old timers.

I'm sure I know where you got that frog. I've seen a recent import shipment of @ 50 man creeks and there are a few that "look different".


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I had a pair that could have easily passed for a pair of "Black Jeans", they were both larger had black speckles on the body and had jet black legs. They were for sure Man Creek/Almirente Pumilio, the guy you got them from rest assured did not have true Blue Jean Pumilio. They got them from one of the many Panamanian exports, frogs there are too easily obtained to worry about going into Costa Rica to get frogs out. 
You can try and match your frog to a similar colored frog but likely that would be difficult, unless you got to see a big import and picked through the first ones.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm not saying its a blue jeans I ruled that out. I just don't want to hybridize by accident.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I have mancreeks and almirante, my mancreeks are a darker red and have some small black coloration on their body. My almirante are lighter red and the blackish coloration does not go up the legs as far as the mancreeks. 
That said they look like almirante to me. Here are some pics:
The first picture is my male almirante, the 2 others is my male mancreek.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Ok heres a clears shot of my Pair.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

VERY good looking frogs. The legging colour is def greyish and not blue - typical MC but again, beautiful animals.

for the record....I have had some recent MC's that were super red and grey and I liked them as much if not more than a BJ morph.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks Man but check out what happened after this pic holy cow.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Boo-ya!

don't let them dry out....keep tank humidity very high.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

My almirante have 5 clutches, she has been moving tads for a week now.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Nice do you have any tips for me my first go around with pumilios. How do I know if the eggs are fertilized? There's about 10 or 11 eggs. Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

My first round with them as well. From what I have been told and read just let the parents do their job and raise the young, be sure to have plenty of springtails in the tank for the juvies as well as the parents.
They are so funny, small frog LOUD constant calling. My leucs try to compete with them but the pums win.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

What color are the eggs? And how long before they become tads thanks for the info.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Mine are white. Typically 4-5 days or so to look like tads.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Yeah mine to so far one of them is turning black. Check out this link from Black Jungle its very informative. Its a video series from collecting eggs to feeding froglets its pretty cool. How To Care for Poison Dart Tadpoles: Video Series | eHow Videos. I think I'm about to start an egg development picture journal maybe it can help others in the forum, describing species, temp, day, and stages of development.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

OK just to be sure, you know that pumilio take care of their own tads up until froglet right? The only food they will eat are feeder eggs that the mother feeds them


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I was not sure if you understood that as well.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Thanks guys I understand pumilio's take care of there offspring just added the link because I was surprised that I have not seen it in the forum yet. Thanks again.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

Just a few picutres.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Nice!

Is that a second clutch of eggs already?


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## Arrynia (Dec 27, 2009)

The coloration of the legs just doesn't say blue jeans at all. They look like man's creek to me as the leg coloration is the typical slate blue. Blue jeans have a very deep blue coloration in the legs not unlike that of we see in most tinctorius species.


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## joematrix (Jul 13, 2008)

The male mounts the female every few days but I havent seen any new eggs Phil.


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