# SI tricolor tadpoles dying



## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

This is the second time my SI tricolors have produce good eggs. I have had no luck raising the tadpoles. Can some one help? I have tried to move them all together into a shoebox with about 1 in. of water, some jave moss from my awuarium and feeding them a high quality flake fish food, They all died within a few days.

This last time I moved them to individual deli cups with about 1/2 in. of tadpole tea, made by soaking magnolia leaves, and an oak leaf in each cup and again feeding flake fish food. They all died within 2 days.

Anyone with any experience care to give me any help here it would be greatly appreciated.


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

I had a lot of problems with SLS in my tricolors. What helped some is putting an indian almond leaf in the container with the tads. The tads lived much longer but still, I did not get any froglets to live past one month. I had the same problem with my bassleri. The fix for them has been feeding them only sera micron. I keep them communally in RO water with floating aquatic plants. They munch on the roots in between feedings. I have a lot of bassleri froglets hopping around. My SI's quit laying good eggs, so I could not test the sera micron theory on them. But it is worth a shot.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Did all the clutch/eggs develop into tadpoles or only some of them?


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

Pardon my lack of knowledge ( I ate too much lead paint when i was little) but I don't know sera micron is. I feed all my other tads just algae with fish food mixed in every 2-3 feedings for a little extra protein.


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

stingfrog said:


> Anyone with any experience care to give me any help here it would be greatly appreciated.


Stacy's tips are good--I'd offer another one. Allow the parents to transport the tads to a water source in the tank. I tried removing eggs=bad, removing tads=bad...left to their own devices=good offspring. Could be the scummy water they were in, perhaps temperature ...whatever it was worked, and thats good enough for me.
Scott


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

The first clutch I got consisted of 10 eggs with 9 hatching. Then there were 2 bad clutches and this last clutch had 6 eggs with two hatching.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

SI can be very difficult to get good eggs and tads from. Mine have laid over 2 dozen clutches and I've had the same problem as you. If I get tads they don't live long. One thing I have learned and implememented is that these frogs need alot of nutrients, esp vit A. I use Rephasy supermin and ICB+ as well as others. In the wild these anaimals are seasonal breeders, but since we can create ideal conditions for them in a viv they tend to lay alot, which deplets their resources much quicker than we can replenish them. It is not certain but most people belive that these frogs may suffer from a Vit A defieciency so that is why they tend to either lay good eggs with weak tads or just bad eggs. Mine haven't laid a cluthc in mos until yesterday. During that period I started to incoprorate a lot more Vit A in their diet, so hopefully we will see if it has had any affects.

All I can say is start to incorporate more supplemenst in your rotation and siwtch up the food items as well as feeding them more often.

Just as a side not, SI are actually anthonyi, not tricolor.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Do you have a photo of the developing eggs that went bad? Did any of the tadpoles seem to have an abdomen that swelled before they hatched?


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Corpus Callosum said:


> Do you have a photo of the developing eggs that went bad? Did any of the tadpoles seem to have an abdomen that swelled before they hatched?


The last time mine developed into tads the one that survived had a swollen abdomen. I explained that to Ed but I forget what he said was the cause was


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

No don't have photos. The ones that turned bad just failed to develop a tad and eventually rotted just like my other dart eggs if they are bad. The ones that hatched didn't seem to have swollen bellies. They were very active the first day or so then died.

What is a good source of the additional vit. A. I dust the parents food with ReptiCal ( I think that is the brand but I'm not sitting at home right now) vits. and calcium. I feed the parents nearly every day with both kinds of fruit flies and tiny crickets on ocaccion.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

stingfrog said:


> No don't have photos. The ones that turned bad just failed to develop a tad and eventually rotted just like my other dart eggs if they are bad. The ones that hatched didn't seem to have swollen bellies. They were very active the first day or so then died.
> 
> What is a good source of the additional vit. A. I dust the parents food with ReptiCal ( I think that is the brand but I'm not sitting at home right now) vits. and calcium. I feed the parents nearly every day with both kinds of fruit flies and tiny crickets on ocaccion.


Rephashy ICB + and or super preen, also Rephashy supermin is good to use as well.

I also, sparingly, (once every other week) use Vit A retisol pulmintate, however you need to crush it up and it doesn't stick so well


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

Not 100% sure but I believe a swollen abdomen is caused by bacterial infection.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

There are many possible factors both to your issues and the ones mentioned by George. Although vitamin A could be the culprit, you can't really be sure of anything. If it is a vitamin/nutrient issue, then one option as has been mentioned is to correct the supplementation regimen, but another option is to give them a break from breeding until they restore their resources on their own.

In regards to the tadpoles with swollen abdomens (or issues with pronephros development in the embryo, like the bottom tadpole in this pic), the below paper showed one cause to be retinoic acid deficiency:

Title: Abnormalities of forelimb and pronephros in a direct developing frog suggest a retinoic acid deficiency
Authors: Lee, Seung Yun; Elinson, Richard P.
Source: Applied Herpetology, Volume 5, Number 1, 2008 , pp. 33-46(14)


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Corpus Callosum said:


> There are many possible factors both to your issues and the ones mentioned by George. Although vitamin A could be the culprit, you can't really be sure of anything. If it is a vitamin/nutrient issue, then one option as has been mentioned is to correct the supplementation regimen, but another option is to give them a break from breeding until they restore their resources on their own.
> 
> In regards to the tadpoles with swollen abdomens (or issues with pronephros development in the embryo, like the bottom tadpole in this pic), the below paper showed one cause to be retinoic acid deficiency:
> 
> ...



Like Mike said if they get a break they should replensih on their own, or least thats what I am hoping.

You can't really tell what the problem is until you investigate a little and see what works and what doesn't.


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

One of the things to check with tads not developing is the hardness of the water you are using to raise them.

Straight RO water to raise tadpoles has always yielded poor froglet health for me. Here in CA the tap water is very hard, tons of dissolved minerals in it. I use a 50/50 mix of RO and tap water for the tads. I mix in some Amquel to remover the Ammonia, Chlorine and Chloramine and then add some Kent Marine Black water extract to a nice Iced tea color. I have used this method for years. 

With tricolors, bassleri, femoralis, etc. raise them in groups and put some leaf litter in the shoebox. Not only will it provide shelter but the tads will chew them up in addition to what you feed them.

For food I use Tetramin flakes, the original brown and yellow can, and freeze dried blood worms. Spray the surface of the water to churn the flakes into the tad container, this will help prevent tads from sucking in too much air and getting bubbles under their skin. It is rare but does happen and it sucks for the tad.

Feed sparingly until you get a feel for how much they eat, always side on too less than too much.

You can use test kits made for aquariums on your tap water if you want to find out what the hardness and pH are. I use Jungle dipsticks, easy to read and quick.

Hope this helps
Eric


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the information. It sounds like they can be touchy. All in all I am going to try different things including extra vits. I have two groups of them. A 2.2.0 and a 2.1.0. The group of 4 is the group currently breeding and they just started so I don't resting them is necessary yet. I think they are well and nourished. In talking with a couple of other people that have them they have the same problem with tads living so I am just going to experiment and see what happens including the type of water the tads are started in. Anyway thanks all for the response.


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