# Live Sphagnum as Ground Cover?



## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

does anyone use live sphagnum as a ground cover??? im trying to make the whole bottom of the tank a bed of sphagnum. i just started culturing it in there now ( no frogs in it yet) and was wondering if anyone else has done this and if they would like to post any pics of them so i could see how it looks??


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I would love to see that too.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

sphagnum needs a dormancy period, so it shouldnt work long term. also moss ground cover has sort of fallen into the realm of past tank building techniques since the mass introduction of leaf litter which provides a MUCH better habitat for you animals and their food.

james


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

Depends on where the moss came from... if it's New Zealand or chilean sphag, then it should be fine, if it's from North America, chances are it will need dormancy and PROBABLY will die...

As I said, it depends on were it's from... but if it is from the tropics, it does well:











Disclaimer*** not my photo, off of google


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

new zealand and chile can hardly be called tropical!!!! 
Spag will live continuously if treated well, and doesn't need a dormant period. I grow many orchids in wild collected live spagnum moss from the Seattle area and it lives and grows all year long. However, I don't think its great for groundcover in a viv. It needs to stay really moist, and won't sustain the amount of microfauna that leaf litter will.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

frogparty said:


> new zealand and chile can hardly be called tropical!!!!
> Spag will live continuously if treated well, and doesn't need a dormant period. I grow many orchids in wild collected live spagnum moss from the Seattle area and it lives and grows all year long. However, I don't think its great for groundcover in a viv. It needs to stay really moist, and won't sustain the amount of microfauna that leaf litter will.


Okay, Subtropical...whatever, i just meant they don't need dormancy.

The other people have a good point... Not as good for the microfauna, and honestly, leaf litter looks better for PDF's, not to say sphag is a horible idea, just not as good.

don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see a viv with Sphag as ground cover!!! and i plan on using it for a project later.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

There is a Dwarf form of sphagnum moss that some of the online plant retailers sell, usually from orchid or carnivorous plant dealers.

I made a large list of plant dealers in another thread, a couple of the sellers on it had sphagnum moss dwarf and regular. I don't remember which so anyone interested will have to go through the list themselves...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/54928-where-buy-plants.html

And I'll add, as I've preached for years on here... "not all temperate mosses need a dormant period".


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Thats right Dave!!!!!!! In my experince it is water availability, NOT TEMPERATURE that makes temperate mosses dormant. Ad they do not need dormancy to thrive


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

They are highly adaptable...I've found 1 or 2 species here in OK that do well in a viv. I think soil is an issue too...many here grow in a sandy, or even clay containing soil...while our vivs are often peat/coco and sphagnum based. 

In the new build i'm working on I'm going to try to make a sandier mix and maybe add some clay. I've noticed the more of the host soil I leave attached to various mosses the longer they seems to last in a viv usually.

I remember kicking some snow off a patch of moss mid winter here and finding green moss underneath


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah we can have beautiful lush moss thriving here any time of year as long as theres not ice covering it. Even then, as oon as the ice is gone, many species perk right back up. In my old greenhouse, many would continue to grow non stop all year, for the 5 years I lived there. Some just really don't like viv culture, and may want dormancy, but more often than not the temperate spcies I try thrive in vivs.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Just a quick comment, on the leaf litter vs moss thing....Why not both?

I often do this in my viv...put leaf litter around my plants, and jam any dead dried plant matter from trimmings/pulled plants I don't want in the back of my viv (just let em dry out/die first). Then you can leave a clear strip in front for a little moss lawn. Best of both worlds. Plus by jamming in old plant material from pruning or pulled plants you put nutrients back in the viv it would otherwise loose.


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## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

could you post pics? i would love to see how that looks ha. and everyone is saying that live sphagnum would be a bad idea? im gonna try it anyway ha never know till ya try


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've had sphagnum grow in a couple of enclosures but for it do well in a terrarium, it needs really high high light levels and really high light levels can mean really high temperatures in the tanks. 

Ed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Ive had the chilean and NZ spag come back to life on me in several spots where the light is high. I love the stuff, I just don't think it would make a good groundcover for a dendrobates viv. Its a bog plant afterall, meaning constant water. I try hard to keep my substrate a bit drier


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Ed said:


> I've had sphagnum grow in a couple of enclosures but for it do well in a terrarium, it needs really high high light levels...


That's been my experience as well. I have New Zealand sphagnum growing beautifully in a bunch of different tanks, but none of them farther than 8 inches from the lights. Usually it's been in places where I built a planter too close to the light for the plant to survive, but the dried sphagnum I surrounded it with took over.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I had it growing 30 inches from the lights at work but then it was under 4 95 watt pc, and 2 36 inch HOs.. 

Ed


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Ed said:


> I had it growing 30 inches from the lights at work but then it was under 4 95 watt pc, and 2 36 inch HOs...


That will keep french fries warm...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Yep ground temperatures 30 minutes after the lights came on were already 85 F. I didn't have any herps in it as it was just a plant exhibit... 

Ed


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## Smashtoad (Apr 27, 2007)

My 56col yellow terror tank has been up for about 1.5 years. It is nothing but gravel and sphagnum. The pump is wrapped in fiberglass screen and buried...a simplified version of Patrick Nabors' method.

The light is a fan powered, T5 unit with four 24" bulbs. The sphag came to life almost everywhere but long term only made it in certain spots.

But...the thing is that other species of moss replaced it, so no harm no foul. I can only assume the spore came with the sphag.


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

I have live sphagnum covering mybackround, and it seems to be doing pretty well.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Mapp said:


> I have live sphagnum covering mybackround, and it seems to be doing pretty well.


You have any pictures?


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

yup. 

Matt's Construction Journal - Page 2 - Dart Frog Forum on Husbandry and Habitat Information

They're towards the bottom. Sorry, but I'm too lazy to upload them to here right now. 

These pics were taken before I had enough sphagnum to cover the entire background, So it looks kind of.... crappy.
Sorry for the bad quality. Cell phone pics. Need to drag myself to walmart to but batteries for my good camera.

When I bought it, I thought it was dead, but the day after I first misted, BOOM! That morning, it was sticking almost 5 inches off the backround. I have to keep patting it down. I wish it _really_ was dead!!!! lol


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