# Citronella?



## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

I finally got my frogs. I'l keep them seperate until I can confirm the smaller two are eating well, by the looks of it they werent getting enough. I came across them during work, in a mixed tank with about 20 other frogs....= (. Here are some sorry pics before they go into QT. 






























The flash really washes out thier colors, the third pic is the most accurate (all stock, just cropped).

I cannot wait to see if I can get a pair out of them eventually.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

Those look like 'Nikita' to me are their legs that dark in real life?


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

They look like Citronella to me.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

AlexRible said:


> Those look like 'Nikita' to me are their legs that dark in real life?


 They are more blue, but not that much. Im curious as to whether or not they will keep that dot on thier backs? I have read that patterns change with maturity. Im officially hooked, these guys are very entertaining....even in QT.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

What place had a mixed tank of frogs....."pet" shop?

Did you set them straight?


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> What place had a mixed tank of frogs....."pet" shop?
> 
> Did you set them straight?


I pointed out the the things I could as far as husbandry, and he did seperate the ones that were obviously skinny. I took the liberty of seperating the citronellas....and relocating them to Vacaville = ).


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

Look at the 14/15 ones down Citronella tend to have very light blue legs
Dendrobates tinctorius morphguide

Great looking frogs btw


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

Thanks. They do look very similar to the "Nikita", the smaller ones have more pronounced blue onthe legs, the larger one has the exact same shade of dark blue on the legs. I'm glad I put that question mark there. Are those all really widley accepted tinc morphs? I had no clue there were that many variations that resembled cobalts, very cool.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

If they are true nikita, then that was a very very lucky find. They are considered a rarer morph I believe. Goes to show that You never know what you might find in your local pet shop huh.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

They are Citronellas. 

Depending on what the tadpoles & froglets are fed the legs can come out anywhere from black to a royal blue. 

I don't know of enough people breeding Nikitas for them to end up in pet stores - Citronellas yes, but not the Nikitas.

Price would be another difference. Unless the person owning the pet store is breeding them himself you would have paid a lot more than the Nikitas.

Also - what did the pet store owner tell you they were? Or where he got them? 

I don't think luck has anything to do with it, just supply and demand. 



Nicholas OConnor said:


> Thanks. They do look very similar to the "Nikita", the smaller ones have more pronounced blue onthe legs, the larger one has the exact same shade of dark blue on the legs. I'm glad I put that question mark there. Are those all really widley accepted tinc morphs? I had no clue there were that many variations that resembled cobalts, very cool.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

melissa68 said:


> They are Citronellas.
> 
> Depending on what the tadpoles & froglets are fed the legs can come out anywhere from black to a royal blue.
> 
> ...


melissa you never know, alot of pet stores I know of get shipments of "assorted" tinctorius and they never know what morphs they have.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Yes - they will keep the dot on the back. It will not disappear as they age. Some people sell the no dots at a higher price than the ones with dots. 

But - my dots throw no dots & dotted frogs - so .



Nicholas OConnor said:


> They are more blue, but not that much. Im curious as to whether or not they will keep that dot on thier backs? I have read that patterns change with maturity. Im officially hooked, these guys are very entertaining....even in QT.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

melissa68 said:


> They are Citronellas.
> 
> Depending on what the tadpoles & froglets are fed the legs can come out anywhere from black to a royal blue.
> 
> ...


I googled dendrobates giude and couldnt find any big ones. Are there any widley accepted id guides for tincts? What makes a "Nikita" a "Nikita".....just the locality?


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Dang - then all those Citronellas I have been selling have actually been Nikitas???? 

Also - the pictures in that morph guide are a little misleading. I don't think I have EVER seen a Citronella with that coloration. 





AlexRible said:


> melissa you never know, alot of pet stores I know of get shipments of "assorted" tinctorius and they never know what morphs they have.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

How they were identified when they were first imported. Based on a number of different things: location, coloration, etc... but Citronellas & Nikitas are seperate - "true morphs". 

True morphs - just mean they were not hybrids.



Nicholas OConnor said:


> I googled dendrobates giude and couldnt find any big ones. Are there any widley accepted id guides for tincts? What makes a "Nikita" a "Nikita".....just the locality?


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

melissa68 said:


> Dang - then all those Citronellas I have been selling have actually been Nikitas????
> 
> Also - the pictures in that morph guide are a little misleading. I don't think I have EVER seen a Citronella with that coloration.


Im not saying that they are definitely one or the other. What I am saying is that in states like california and florida where there are ports that deal with trade with latin america. Pets stores get alot of shipments of animals that they don't know a whole lot about. It is not unheard of that a pet store might get shipments of "assorted" tinctorius and they have no clue what they are selling. I have seen OG being sold for more than cobalts.


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

Those are citronella. All my citronella look just like that. You can't tell the legs are blue unless there is good light on them.

Posted by Alex: " alot of pet stores I know of get shipments of "assorted" tinctorius and they never know what morphs they have."

Since when are any pet stores getting assorted shipments of dart frogs. They're not leoperd geckos. Even the farmed auratus are identified more or less. I hope the hobby isn't that massively retalailed.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

These guys are not imported anymore. I don't remember the actual year these guys came in but it might have been in the late 90s. Any of the tincs that are in a pet store would originate from within the US.

OG - meaning orange galacs? Those would sell more than cobalts. 

I agree - pet stores do get a lot of stuff they don't have a clue what they are saying. Not going to argue your point there. 

My point is - I highly doubt Nikitas would be in a pet store. Citronellas are more likely & based on the large number we have produced those are "classic" Citronellas. My guess would be 99% towards Citronellas.

Only way you will ever know 100% what you are buying is to purchase your frogs from reputable breeders who know what the frogs are. 

Regardless, nice find. 



AlexRible said:


> Im not saying that they are definitely one or the other. What I am saying is that in states like california and florida where there are ports that deal with trade with latin america. Pets stores get alot of shipments of animals that they don't know a whole lot about. It is not unheard of that pet store get shipments of "assorted" tinctorius and they have no clue what they are selling. I have seen OG being sold for more than cobalts.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

I just found out these are in fact "Nickainyas", so no further discussion is required...jk.
Seriously though, any other guides out there or lists? *Starts Googling*


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

The second pic shows the frog in some decent light and it has a nice shade of blue on the legs. I second the citronella opinion. 

Alex, you are right about shipments into port cities, but your not going to get shipments of cb frogs into port cities. These frogs are clearly young frogs and I don't believe that many froglets get exported out.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

melissa68 said:


> OG - meaning orange galacs? Those would sell more than cobalts.


Meaning I was typing to fast lol. What ment was GO giant oranges being sold for less than cobalts


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

The one you were linked to earlier is one of the better ones. 

Lighting has a lot to do with how tincs appear in the pictures. Colors can be totally off so some of the guides out there are a little misleading. 

For instance - here is a picture of one of our citronellas. If you used the morph guide referenced earlier wouldn't this look like a Nikita? 














Nicholas OConnor said:


> I just found out these are in fact "Nickainyas", so no further discussion is required...jk.
> Seriously though, any other guides out there or lists? *Starts Googling*


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

GOs - there is another interesting conversation. If you ever come across them being sold for less than cobalts DO NOT BUY THEM. They are probably hybrids IMO.





AlexRible said:


> Meaning I was typing to fast lol. What ment was GO giant oranges being sold for less than cobalts


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

also, don't all Citronella have white bands around their legs and Nikita don't


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Tincs are not exported/imported at all. Would be nice if they do again at some point in time but I don't have a clue about when that would be.

Also - nice observation about the age of imports. They are almost always adult frogs. 



jubjub47 said:


> The second pic shows the frog in some decent light and it has a nice shade of blue on the legs. I second the citronella opinion.
> 
> Alex, you are right about shipments into port cities, but your not going to get shipments of cb frogs into port cities. These frogs are clearly young frogs and I don't believe that many froglets get exported out.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Looking at the morph guide it does look like Nikitas have it too. 

Most of the banding on my citronellas comes out a washed out yellow. My cobalts even have banding around the front legs like you see in the picture I posted. Since I began feeding my tads Nutrose the banking comes out more yellow.

I have seen Nikitas and Citronellas side by side and there is a visible difference between them. I just can't remember if it is size or coloration. Hopefully someone can jump in here that has them and answer that question. 





AlexRible said:


> also, don't all Citronella have white bands around their legs and Nikita don't


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Nikitas are much smaller from what I remember. They are a dwarf morph like the DFG.


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## heaventreeofstars (Oct 8, 2007)

Those guys look very much like my citronellas. 

Anyways great pick up and welcome to the addiction.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Nikitas are a little bit smaller then Citronellas, but it's not a huge difference. Nikitas also have yellow braclets around their wrists. Some cits do as well. I haven't noticed any difference colorwise. They are close enough in appearance that IDing them from a picture would be impossible IMO.

From my understanding, there has only been 1 shipment of Nikitas back in the early 90's by Marcus. I don't remember if it was 20 adults or 20 pairs that came in, but needless to say I only know of a handful of breeders that still have them in collections. I was lucky enough to have one of the original males in my collection for a time and was very disappointed to see him pass (just recently, and making him a very old frog...).

Where on earth did you find a shop with mixed darts in your area?? I only know of 1 store that consistently carries them around here and they usually don't mix things...


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

JL-Exotics said:


> Nikitas are a little bit smaller then Citronellas, but it's not a huge difference. Nikitas also have yellow braclets around their wrists. Some cits do as well. I haven't noticed any difference colorwise. They are close enough in appearance that IDing them from a picture would be impossible IMO.
> 
> From my understanding, there has only been 1 shipment of Nikitas back in the early 90's by Marcus. I don't remember if it was 20 adults or 20 pairs that came in, but needless to say I only know of a handful of breeders that still have them in collections. I was lucky enough to have one of the original males in my collection for a time and was very disappointed to see him pass (just recently, and making him a very old frog...).
> 
> Where on earth did you find a shop with mixed darts in your area?? I only know of 1 store that consistently carries them around here and they usually don't mix things...


The only shop Ive been to recently that hasnt had mixed sp. tanks is the EBV. Though Im not familiar with the SSJ area as much...I'm more familiar from Carmichael to Lodi. 
Im perfectly complacent with labeling them "tincts"....lol. Im just glad to finally have some, let alone some beauties like these. I think given the general opinion it is safe to call them alleged citronella, though I'ld like to see what offspring look like. The bigger one is a bit over an 1" in BL and has no banding on the limbs....anyone have a guess as to the age? The smaller ones measure at just under 1".....also no leg markings. I cannot find size references for citro's or even a general tinct age/length relevance.


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## Marcus (Apr 18, 2004)

About the black dot on the back;
The dot can dissapear by age. Saw it several times and heard it several times from some keepers.

About the difference;
Size is same in my opinion. I saw a terri full of Nikita's at the brooker in Surinam and I thought it were Citronella's. The broker said they were Nikita's. Size was the same, some had black legs some had blue legs and some had yellow markings at the wrists (but most did not).
What's the difference than?
The markings on the back. Most of the animals had more markings (dots big and small) on the back comparing to citronella. 
From what i recently saw at the WC imports in europe;
Most of the citronella's had one dot on the back. Some had no dot and just a few had more than one dot. At Nikita's this is reverse. But i saw some animals in the Nikita w.c group that could easily sold as Citronella's. (this can also be done in reverse).

It 's very difficulty to determine the difference.....
Perhaps it will be more clearly if there comes a new import of Nikita's.


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

I have both Nikita and Citronella, and my Cits legs are almost black, while my Nikita's legs are very light in comparison.


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