# First attempt at a buttress root tree



## ryan10517

i got bored yesterday, so i decided to try my hand at making one of these. I don't have a tank or anything for it to go into, but its fun making these kind of things. Here is a few pics of it after the rough carve. I'll post more tomorrow when i hand sand it and make it look better. Suggestions? criticism?


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## Pumilo

Looking pretty sweet already Ryan!


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## myersboy6

that looks awesome! I want to build a bigger viv with tree root systems like this for the background. I really like how they look.


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## ryan10517

thanks guys. I've always been intrigued by these rainforest trees. I even did a pencil drawing of one and got first place in advanced pencil drawing category at the HOIC art conference. 

I have absolutely no idea what the hell i'm going to do with this thing. I don't even own a tank it would fit in. Dimensions are approximately 18" high, 24" wide, and 18" deep. If it turns out lookin ok, and nobody wants it, ill make it a desk lamp or something hahaha


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## myersboy6

Sounds like something that would fit inside a 40gallon breeder tank. Haha that's a good size tree stump. Haha


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## james67

i like the diy hotwire.

james


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## ryan10517

james67 said:


> i like the diy hotwire.
> 
> james


hahaha thanks. I'm surprised someone actually knew what it was! Its a pretty fun toy. I built it in order to make this bad boy for art class


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## azure89

That's really good for a first attempt, I like the way it looks and that fossil replica is pretty sweet too


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## VivariumWorks

Wow! That fossil is sweet!!!


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## Vinnner

Awesome trunk and roots and the fossil is wicked as well. If your trying to sell off the tree/roots when finished Id be more than happy to take t off your hands if your not going to use it! Let me know.

Awesome work again

Vinny


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## santoury

Are these plaster of paris ?


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## ryan10517

santoury said:


> Are these plaster of paris ?


nope they are both actually carved out of EPS (expanded polystyrene) styrofoam. You can see a piece of it on the shop floor in the first pic. the t-rex does however have a thin layer of plaster over the foam in order for the paint to stick.


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## stevenhman

I think it looks great! How are you going to coat/paint it?


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## bkelley02

Amazing job. Wish I had those type skills.


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## arielelf

Really nice sculpting!! The tree is very natural.


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## ryan10517

stevenhman said:


> I think it looks great! How are you going to coat/paint it?


to be honest, i was going to ask you guys what the best thing to coat it in. I was thinking about some viv friendly type of modeling clay, but the only one that comes to mind is Polygem's zoo-poxy easy sculpt clay, and they want almost $50 for a 2 quart thing! Does anybody know of another type of readily available clay or sculpting paste thats both viv friendly and relatively cheap??

Another option would be drylock, but its sorta pricey and you cant really sculpt it. Suggestions please!

Well back on track with the actual build of it. I just got done hand sanding and refining the shape of the stump. I think its turning out alright so far. Here are a few updated pictures. 

front









closeup right side









closeup left side









overhead









from across the shop










How does it look so far?


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## Dusted Fly

It looks great! It's not something you can sculpt but what about the plain old silicone and peatmoss method to cover it? Maybe get some moss to grow on it, add a few choice broms here or there and wha-la! (idk just rambling) Whatever you choose I'm sure it'll turn out great.


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## ryan10517

Dusted Fly said:


> It looks great! It's not something you can sculpt but what about the plain old silicone and peatmoss method to cover it? Maybe get some moss to grow on it, add a few choice broms here or there and wha-la! (idk just rambling) Whatever you choose I'm sure it'll turn out great.


thanks for the input! I've considered the silicone/peat moss method, but i fear it will not look entirely realistic. I've been looking at different pictures of rainforest trees on the internet, and it seems most are a light brownish grey with a little bit of green moss growth near the bottom. The peat moss will be to dark and more brown than I want I think. I have also considered using floor grout or cement, but i really do not want to go through the hassle of neutralizing and curing it with vinegar. 

Here is a picture that i have kinda used as a very loose reference for this build.


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## stevenhman

I was going to suggest using a grout. You could paint it and then put a clear coat of epoxy (resin?) over it but, that might make it look too shiny. If you don't need to use the piece right away curing shouldn't be much of a hassle - just need to wait while it soaks.

Although I have never used grout or epoxy, from what I have seen grout seems to give the greatest control over texture.


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## Teckdragon

Looks really great! You're an adept artist.


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## fleshfrombone

My last computer with all my favorites died on me but there is a European website where a guy did something very similar and got incredible results. I would ask eLisborg, she gave me the link explaining the process. You did a fantastic job on this, what's funny is that picture is one of about 7 I had on the old computer in preparation for just such a project but I think your result is better than what I would have come up with.

Check out these links, they may help

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/7378-artificial-tree-buttresses.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/52841-300gal-paludarium-project.html


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## ryan10517

thanks for the links flesh. Steven's trees look incredible! It almost looks like non sanded grout or cement, then painted and sealed with epoxy or something similar. not sure i love the shiny glassy look to them though. I think my top 2 options right now are cement/grout or colored drylok. Hell i might even use crayola air dry modeling clay and paint that since i have no tank to put it in hahaha


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## fleshfrombone

No problem. Whichever you decide keep us updated! Me especially so I can rip off your technique lol.


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## ryan10517

haha absolutely! maybe if it turns out alright, i'll make a DIY buttress tree thread or somethin and show off my techniques  Trust me, things like this are super easy to make. You just have to be creative! (and have a lot of spare time to carve and sand them haha)


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## boabab95

Vinnner said:


> Awesome trunk and roots and the fossil is wicked as well. If your trying to sell off the tree/roots when finished Id be more than happy to take t off your hands if your not going to use it! Let me know.
> 
> Awesome work again
> 
> Vinny



I'd buy the fossil and the butress!!!


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## Pumilo

Just loving it! Can I make one suggestion. As is you would almost have to but the stump right up to the top of the viv to cover the flat top. How about carving the top a bit to look like the rest of the tree has broken off rather than been cut off?
I don't know how much labor you're going to have in that but you could totally sell those!


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## LookinRound

Pumilo said:


> Just loving it! Can I make one suggestion. As is you would almost have to but the stump right up to the top of the viv to cover the flat top. How about carving the top a bit to look like the rest of the tree has broken off rather than been cut off?
> I don't know how much labor you're going to have in that but you could totally sell those!


I second this


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## ryan10517

Pumilo said:


> Just loving it! Can I make one suggestion. As is you would almost have to but the stump right up to the top of the viv to cover the flat top. How about carving the top a bit to look like the rest of the tree has broken off rather than been cut off?
> I don't know how much labor you're going to have in that but you could totally sell those!


i was contemplating doing that actually. I figured if it was pressed flush against a glass top, it would look more "complete" i guess. Kinda like its still growing up and out of the tank. Now that i think about it, it could be a risk of frogs or some kind of animal getting stuck between the stump and the glass. 

Just curious, how much would people be willing to pay for something like this? (completed and painted to look good of course). I probably have about 2 1/2 hours worth of labor in this piece times $8.25 an hour for minimum wage. That turns out to exactly $20 plus shipping of course haha. What do you guys think?


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## davecalk

The tree looks great. I am in agreement that it would look a bit more natural if you hollowed out the top so that it looks as if it is rotting away, something like this.










Also if you carved it down so that the bowl would hold water, it would make a natural tadpole depositing spot.


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## ryan10517

thanks for all the suggestions everybody! Doug and Dave, i'll probably end up doing just that. I might try carving and hollowing it out with a soldering iron or wood burner in order to give it a sharper more broken off look. I'll keep y'all updated.


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## LookinRound

ryan10517 said:


> thanks for all the suggestions everybody! Doug and Dave, i'll probably end up doing just that. I might try carving and hollowing it out with a soldering iron or wood burner in order to give it a sharper more broken off look. I'll keep y'all updated.


So you're going to try for it to look like a tree that has recently fallen down as opposed to one that has been down for a while and exposed to the elements?


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## wimvanvelzen

Looks really great! 
For my rocks and for my butress trees I used tile grout (and pigments meant for latex), with an epoxy layer on top, thinly thrown in with the finest sand I could get. Not shiny anymore and really just a little bit sand paper look (which is fine for trees).
Remember to color your tree more grey and green than the typical brown one might think of first.


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## ryan10517

LookinRound said:


> So you're going to try for it to look like a tree that has recently fallen down as opposed to one that has been down for a while and exposed to the elements?


here is a picture of kinda what i'm going for 









Notice how it looks more jagged rather than smooth. Mine will be more concave rather than convex though so it holds a bit of water. 

@wimvanvelzen; where did you get your pigments and epoxy at? Does any type of epoxy work? I have some 5 minute quick set epoxy that i could use. 

Also, is regular acrylic paint alright to use if i coat it in epoxy, or does it have to be "non toxic"? Thanks for all the replies guys!


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## ryan10517

little bit of an update: Just got done carving out the top to make it look like it broke off and rotted in the center a little bit. I didn't quite get exactly the look i was going for, but i think it looks alright. Here are a few pictures. 

front









left side









right side









top water holding cup









detail shot









this shows the depth a little better because of the natural daylight










Sorry about the bad quality pictures guys. All i have right now is my phone.

Tell me what you guys think so far!

Ryan


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## randommind

ryan10517 said:


> I probably have about 2 1/2 hours worth of labor in this piece times $8.25 an hour for minimum wage. That turns out to exactly $20 plus shipping of course haha. What do you guys think?


I think for $20 your gonna find yourself knee deep in PM's....perfect way to fund a frog addiction Excellent work man, looking forward to seeing this one through.


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## mingeace

Wow this is really fantastic! I would surely pay 20 plus shipping for something like that ha. Also if it’s not too much to ask PLEASE set up a DIY buttress tree thread. You know, something with pics and a list of the materials used.

I was actually thinking of starting one of these in the next few days for the 55 gallon I am going to be setting up and would love to know how to get started.

Where can I purchase this EPS stuff?

Thanks, and it looks great!!!


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## james67

try lowering one edge to give it a more natural look so that if it sits up straight the cut is more of a / and less __. it should help a lot.

james


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## Pumilo

james67 said:


> try lowering one edge to give it a more natural look so that if it sits up straight the cut is more of a / and less __. it should help a lot.
> 
> james


Looks way better but I agree with James about lowering an edge. 
$20 bucks is not enough...except for the one you'll sell to me! People pay more than that for a centerpiece chunk of ghostwood, plus the shipping is way higher on wood than on styrofoam.
If you were to start making these, here's an idea for you. Picture cutting it exactly in half, so the saw blade runs from top to bottom. Now you have a flat "centerpiece" to be glued onto the back wall with silicone. That would make a sweet start to a background!
Can't wait to see it finished!


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## Dusted Fly

ryan10517 said:


> thanks for the input! I've considered the silicone/peat moss method, but i fear it will not look entirely realistic. I've been looking at different pictures of rainforest trees on the internet, and it seems most are a light brownish grey with a little bit of green moss growth near the bottom. The peat moss will be to dark and more brown than I want I think. I have also considered using floor grout or cement, but i really do not want to go through the hassle of neutralizing and curing it with vinegar.


I haven't done this before and don't know if it'd be a good idea, but what about mixing some peat and bleach? Hmm....might go try this now and see what the results are. I just tried it and it didn't work... sounds like paint would be your best bet.


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## ryan10517

sorry about the late reply guys, I just got home from work about an hour ago. I didn't exactly angle the top completely, but i did take a couple good chunks outa it to make it look more naturally broken. It's kinda hard to see in the pictures, but the front left and back left parts of it are sanded down and carved to match the rest. Let me know if you guys think its good, or needs more variation in the top "broken off" part. 











this one shows the front part a little better










I also sanded out the "central cup" a little bit. I'm thinking about drilling it out so people can have a removable dixie cup or film canister for tad deposition. Just a thought.










Here is a size comparison with a normal size great stuff can










I'm thinking i'm going to let you guys decide how much it sells for when it is finished. I will have a "silent auction" thread in the classified section where people can just post how much they would pay for it, and at the end of a period of time, the highest bidder will get it. I'll only do this for the first one, and then possibly only do custom pieces by PM after that. I think i'm getting a little ahead of myself on this 


Please don't hold back on the constructive criticism! Its helping me out greatly! Thanks, 

Ryan


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## wimvanvelzen

ryan10517 said:


> (..)
> @wimvanvelzen; where did you get your pigments and epoxy at? Does any type of epoxy work? I have some 5 minute quick set epoxy that i could use.
> 
> Also, is regular acrylic paint alright to use if i coat it in epoxy, or does it have to be "non toxic"? Thanks for all the replies guys!


hi Ryan,

I bought the pigments and epoxy locally in Amsterdam (Alles op het gebied van kunstharsen, glasvezels, kitten, lijmen en coatings in de webwinkel van Poly-Service.). The kind of pigment or paint is not important when everything will be covered in epoxy, so you are free to choose.


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## GRIMM

Looks great Ryan! Looking forward to seing the finished product. I love how easy root structures are to make, yet how difficult and complex they look when finished lol! Im sure if you ever make others for your own viv they will only get better!


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## heatfreakk3

I get first dibs when you make more smaller ones


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## ryan10517

thanks for all the compliments guys! Its not close to done yet though, so be patient. Here is my plan on coating/ painting it: I will be using Drylok in order to preserve the carving i did on the top portion. I think i'm going to mix some black and a little bit of brown paint in with the drylok in order to get the right color i want. Would acrylic paint mix with a latex based masonry sealer? Or would i just have to buy some pigments? After that, i'll just use outdoor use acrylic paint to add texture, depth, and the appearance of moss growth (mostly with dry-brush techniques) . I'm not really planning on doing a final coat of anything after that unless you guys believe it is absolutely necessary. Remember I'm poor and trying to be cheap here  If you guys see any problems with this method, please let me know before i end up making a big mistake.

Again, be patient, because it might be a while before i get to this due to insufficient funds at the moment haha. If anybody has any other ideas for stuff i could make for people's tanks, feel free to share! I've already had people interested in smaller dinosaur skulls to be incorporated into their backgrounds and such. Let me know if y'all think of anything else! Thanks, 

Ryan


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## ryan10517

I just did a little bit of research, and it looks like i should be able to mix drylok and acrylic paint with no problems. It turns out that its not real latex that is in latex based paints. Its just a catch-all term used for paints with a synthetic polymer. Here is the quote i found: "Latex paint is a general term which covers all paints that use synthetic polymers such as acrylic, vinyl acrylic (PVA), styrene acrylic, etc. as binders." 


here is the website if anybody cares to read it
What is latex and acrylic paint?


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## Pumilo

ryan10517 said:


> sorry about the late reply guys, I just got home from work about an hour ago. I didn't exactly angle the top completely, but i did take a couple good chunks outa it to make it look more naturally broken. It's kinda hard to see in the pictures, but the front left and back left parts of it are sanded down and carved to match the rest. Let me know if you guys think its good, or needs more variation in the top "broken off" part.
> 
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> this one shows the front part a little better
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> I also sanded out the "central cup" a little bit. I'm thinking about drilling it out so people can have a removable dixie cup or film canister for tad deposition. Just a thought.
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> Here is a size comparison with a normal size great stuff can
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> I'm thinking i'm going to let you guys decide how much it sells for when it is finished. I will have a "silent auction" thread in the classified section where people can just post how much they would pay for it, and at the end of a period of time, the highest bidder will get it. I'll only do this for the first one, and then possibly only do custom pieces by PM after that. I think i'm getting a little ahead of myself on this
> 
> 
> Please don't hold back on the constructive criticism! Its helping me out greatly! Thanks,
> 
> Ryan


Yes, like that! Looks good Ryan!


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## davecalk

ryan10517 said:


> I just did a little bit of research, and it looks like i should be able to mix drylok and acrylic paint with no problems. It turns out that its not real latex that is in latex based paints. Its just a catch-all term used for paints with a synthetic polymer. Here is the quote i found: "Latex paint is a general term which covers all paints that use synthetic polymers such as acrylic, vinyl acrylic (PVA), styrene acrylic, etc. as binders."
> 
> 
> here is the website if anybody cares to read it
> What is latex and acrylic paint?


Yes you can mix latex / acrylic paint into the drylok to get the colors you want. You might want to drop into your local paint store. They can sell you different colored tints. Some stores only have quart containers, some have them in pint and smaller quantities. These will help you to get down to the colors that you want easier then buying paint. And they may or may not be be cheaper. You could also go to the craft store and buy acylics in the tubes. Might be cheaper yet. Thinking about it, the small acrylic craft paints that are a buck or two would give you a wide range of colors to tint with. You really don't need a lot to mix with the drylok to get the colors you want and need.

Used to be a painting contractor.


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## Azurel

This tree trunk is looking sweet.....Great artistic talent. Can't wait to see what it turns out to look like.


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## ryan10517

davecalk said:


> Yes you can mix latex / acrylic paint into the drylok to get the colors you want. You might want to drop into your local paint store. They can sell you different colored tints. Some stores only have quart containers, some have them in pint and smaller quantities. These will help you to get down to the colors that you want easier then buying paint. And they may or may not be be cheaper. You could also go to the craft store and buy acylics in the tubes. Might be cheaper yet. Thinking about it, the small acrylic craft paints that are a buck or two would give you a wide range of colors to tint with. You really don't need a lot to mix with the drylok to get the colors you want and need.
> 
> Used to be a painting contractor.


Thanks so much for the clarification Dave! much appreciated. I'll run and grab some drylok and acrylics sometime soon. Seeing that the acrylics will be mixed into the drylok, it should be water tight and viv/ frog safe correct? I would feel bad if i sold a dangerous or defective product to someone on this board haha


I actually emailed Patrick Nabors and aksed him how they make their tree buttresses. He says they make pliable casts of real tree bark, and lay them over the structure, then paint them, and finally coat them in a UV resistant matte finish clear coat. Pretty neat process!


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## izzywalker

I have tried carving solid foam before however didn't like the shedding that occurred and the coarse finish left without coating it with something however a decent hotwire tool would probably change my mind about working with styrofoam and expanding foam carving. Nice work with the tree, can't wait to see how it turns out.


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## ryan10517

izzywalker said:


> I have tried carving solid foam before however didn't like the shedding that occurred and the coarse finish left without coating it with something however a decent hotwire tool would probably change my mind about working with styrofoam and expanding foam carving. Nice work with the tree, can't wait to see how it turns out.


thanks. I'm hoping that it doesn't look too "styrofoamy" when its all coated and painted. I hand sanded it with 150 and then 600 grit sand paper, so it didn't necessarily shed off a lot of the beads. I will also be using a lot of dry brush painting techniques on the finished product, so i think i should be alright (fingers crossed!). The only thing i used my hot wire cutter for was cutting out the very general shape of the butresses. 99% of this project so far is carving with a dremel tool and hand sanding. If it looks like crap in the end, i'll just end up giving it to someone for the cost of shipping lol.


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## calebrez

Awesome job man! Where did you get a piece of stirophome that big??


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## ryan10517

i got the foam at Menards. Idk if you have them where you live, but they're a fairly big hardware store here in central illinois. The 4'x8' sheet was in the insulation section next to the pink and blue extruded foam insulation. I would have used that, but it had pre-cut slits in it, and that wouldn't have worked for the t-rex (what i originally bought the foam for) I would imagine that a place like lowes or home depot would have something similar. It was around $10 plus tax, which was also much cheaper than the pink extruded stuff for $27! hope that helps, 

Ryan


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## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> thanks. I'm hoping that it doesn't look too "styrofoamy" when its all coated and painted. I hand sanded it with 150 and then 600 grit sand paper, so it didn't necessarily shed off a lot of the beads. I will also be using a lot of dry brush painting techniques on the finished product, so i think i should be alright (fingers crossed!). The only thing i used my hot wire cutter for was cutting out the very general shape of the butresses. 99% of this project so far is carving with a dremel tool and hand sanding. If it looks like crap in the end, i'll just end up giving it to someone for the cost of shipping lol.


It definetly wont look "styrofoamy" at all once its coated and painted its going to look sweet! You definetly better make a "how to" guide because i have some white styrofoam right now and want to give this a go


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## sports_doc

Looking forward to seeing this completed Ryan, I am impressed by the realistic look so far!

S


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## pa.walt

don't get too detail happy with the foam. when you put the cement/grout on you will loose detail.
there was a large thread on here a while back. it was pretty much what you are writing about here. the guy was from eu.
i think he had the name hex in his addy and the thread was started by i think onagra. i had it saved somewhere. will try and look for it. if i remember it was turned into a sticky on here.


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## ryan10517

^thats why i decided not to use cement. I'm going to drylok and paint it to preserve the texture. hopefully picking up the drylok and acrylics tomorrow.


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## pa.walt

Parts & Construction 
topic: (Making Fake Rocks) 
take a look at this thread it will answer some of your questions. not sure if the guys,(HX) pics come up anymore but will give you some info on what would be good to use for your tree.


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## ryan10517

ya i've read that thread a while ago haha. I'm feeling confident about my method that i will be using, cuz i've done all my research and made sure that this will be water tight and viv safe. I've tried using tile grout on a few projects, and to be honest I really don't like working with it. Its just messy and difficult to achieve detail with. Plus epoxy resin is expensive, and i'm a cheap person  A lot of people in the cichlid community make tank backgrounds using drylok as well, and there have been no adverse side affects that i am aware of. If the drylok/acrylic method doesn't work the way i want it to, or is just a complete fail, then i'll either make another tree and try a different method, or give up completely lol.


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## ryan10517

little bit of an update: went into Pekin earlier and picked up some acrylics and paint brushes at hobby lobby (which is incredibly overpriced! f*cking $20 for 3 little tubes of paint and like 5 crappy brushes!!!!! i hate that store). I asked the guy at Menards where the drylok was, and he said they only sold a different type of masonry waterproofer. Upon closer inspection, it said it had fungicide and mildew resistance stuff in it, so that was a no go. Looks like i will have to go the lowes in east peoria sometime... Might not be til the weekend. Ugh i have the worst of luck!


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## Melo

Yeah that is pricy for paints and brushes haha, i would have probably gone to the Dollar store or something for the brushes to keep things cheaper. Let me know how the drylok works out because im still debating on whether to use that or go with a cement type of substance and epoxy and im trying to keep costs down too  Cant wait to see this done though, and DONT GIVE UP you are too good at it haha


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## ryan10517

haha thanks man. Appreciate the nice words! And i can't give up now cuz i'm making chris w. a smaller one for his 18x18x24 zoo-med since he called first dibs on em haha. I think i might make a DIY guide with this one. Don't quote me on that though... i usually end up forgetting things like that haha.


Ya the paints and brushes were pretty pricey, but they're pretty good quality. Plus i got an assortment of ten brushes for 6 bucks. I was just in a pissy mood when i wrote that cuz menards didn't have drylok lol.


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## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> haha thanks man. Appreciate the nice words! And i can't give up now cuz i'm making chris w. a smaller one for his 18x18x24 zoo-med since he called first dibs on em haha. I think i might make a DIY guide with this one. Don't quote me on that though... i usually end up forgetting things like that haha.
> 
> 
> Ya the paints and brushes were pretty pricey, but they're pretty good quality. Plus i got an assortment of ten brushes for 6 bucks. I was just in a pissy mood when i wrote that cuz menards didn't have drylok lol.


lol well i can remind you about the DIY guide dont you worry, you arent getting out of that one  I might end up doing the cement and epoxy if i can ever decide on which epoxy to use  haha i have no idea which brand to use. but how did you get the styrofoam to look so smooth, when ive worked with the white stuff i could never get it that smooth


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## morphman

Awesome job Ryan. I just made a cork & G.S background and I was thinking how the heck am I going to get the G.S to look like the corkbark rather than the familiar silicone/coco/whatever which in my opinion is kind of abrupt. Wonder if with your method I can still root plants on it ??

Good luck and keep us posted and I call next dibs on whatever


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## ryan10517

Melo said:


> lol well i can remind you about the DIY guide dont you worry, you arent getting out of that one  I might end up doing the cement and epoxy if i can ever decide on which epoxy to use  haha i have no idea which brand to use. but how did you get the styrofoam to look so smooth, when ive worked with the white stuff i could never get it that smooth


After carving it with the sanding bit on the dremel tool, i spent probably an hour hand sanding it first with 150 grit sandpaper, and then 600 grit. Realistically you could probably skip the 600, because it will be coated with drylok anyways, but i like my projects to be smooth lol. 

Morphman, i'm honestly not sure if plants would root to the drylok or not. I can easily incorporate a few holes into the stump for brom placement though. I think some cute little Neoregelia "chiquita linda" would look cool on these 


Don't worry guys, i'll keep y'all updated if anything major goes down haha.


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## Scott Richardson

Go to Ace next to County Market. Or whatever the hell it's called now. Or hell, Tremont lumber for that matter.


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## ryan10517

Oh yeah! thats a good idea. I bet ace would have it. I think farm and fleet in morton has it too, but only in the two gallon size. I highly doubt i'll need two gallons of it haha.


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## ryan10517

i just spent f*cking 20 minutes on the phone with some dumbass from Ace hardware that had no earthly clue what drylok was. 20 MINUTES of him looking around the store!!!!! finally the manager picks up the phone, and walks over to the drylok in like 5 seconds and says that they have it in latex and oil base. I hate crappy customer service!!!! ugh.... well i'm off to pekin..... Wish me luck!!!


----------



## ryan10517

ryan10517 said:


> i just spent f*cking 20 minutes on the phone with some dumbass from Ace hardware that had no earthly clue what drylok was. 20 MINUTES of him looking around the store!!!!! finally the manager picks up the phone, and walks over to the drylok in like 5 seconds and says that they have it in latex and oil base. I hate crappy customer service!!!! ugh.... well i'm off to pekin..... Wish me luck!!!












I literally walked in the store, headed to the back, and found what i needed in less than thirty seconds. I have no idea how someone can spend 20 minutes looking around the store and not find it. Some people.......

And look it came in gray! That means less paint i have to mix in order to achieve the color i want for the trunk. Haha i love cutting corners!











Hopefully this baby will be completed sometime tonight. I'll start on it right after supper


----------



## ryan10517

first coat of drylok


----------



## heatfreakk3

Lookin sweet! Can't wait for mine!


----------



## ryan10517

heatfreakk3 said:


> Lookin sweet! Can't wait for mine!


Patience my young padawan.... Patience....


----------



## Frank H

Thank you for posting pictures of the product you are using. That makes it much easier for me to jump into a project like this. Its always intimidating going in to a store to look for stuff we can use safely in our vivariums. 

The root is coming along nicely! I cant wait to see the final product. 

Frank


----------



## ryan10517

Frank H said:


> Thank you for posting pictures of the product you are using. That makes it much easier for me to jump into a project like this. Its always intimidating going in to a store to look for stuff we can use safely in our vivariums.
> 
> The root is coming along nicely! I cant wait to see the final product.
> 
> Frank


thanks man! if you want i can post pics of the acrylics i'm using too. The plain grey color looks pretty ugly right now, so i'll have to play around with the drylok and paint to get a base color i'm pleased with. Then comes all the shading and detail work haha. Hopefully it will look alright once its done.


----------



## Melo

Oh man it comes in Grey?! ive been looking for grey but all the places by me just have white... haha, it would be perfect to make fake rocks and such. Definetly going to have to buy me some of that. It makes it completly waterproof correct?


----------



## davecalk

ryan10517 said:


> little bit of an update: went into Pekin earlier and picked up some acrylics and paint brushes at hobby lobby (which is incredibly overpriced! f*cking $20 for 3 little tubes of paint and like 5 crappy brushes!!!!! i hate that store). I asked the guy at Menards where the drylok was, and he said they only sold a different type of masonry waterproofer. Upon closer inspection, it said it had fungicide and mildew resistance stuff in it, so that was a no go. Looks like i will have to go the lowes in east peoria sometime... Might not be til the weekend. Ugh i have the worst of luck!


Hey Ryan, 

Wow you got the expensive stuff.

You can get stuff that would work for a lot less. I and others have used the acrylic paint like this with good success for tinting, painting, etc.










Here is an article that might help you paint your tree with a good degree of realism.
Brent Brock's painting of a buttress tree.




I did an article back in the 90's on frognet which helped Brent do this tree. My article was designed to help paint Rocks and trees, etc. If you are interested I'll see if I can dig it up.


----------



## ryan10517

Thank you so much Dave! that was an incredibly helpful article! i really appreciate it. Once i get a more brownish grey coat of drylok on it, I will follow your directions on painting it. Hopefully it will look good!

Melo, i got the grey stuff at Ace hardware, so if you have one around where you live, i'd check. I had no idea it came in grey either until i saw it right next to the white haha. From what i have heard, If you apply the right amount of drylok to the foam, it will become completely waterproof.


----------



## GRIMM

Looking sweet already with the first coat man. One little humble note though. If you make more of these in the future, I think overexagerating the height of the roots an additional 2-3 inches would be a good idea. Having substrate pilled up against the structure will surely cover up most of the smaller detailed roots. I would hate to see them hidden after all the work put into it.


----------



## ryan10517

GRIMM said:


> Looking sweet already with the first coat man. One little humble note though. If you make more of these in the future, I think overexagerating the height of the roots an additional 2-3 inches would be a good idea. Having substrate pilled up against the structure will surely cover up most of the smaller detailed roots. I would hate to see them hidden after all the work put into it.


I was actually just thinking about that. My idea was that it would for the most part just sit on top of the substrate, or be siliconed onto the back wall of the tank a good 3-4 inches above the false bottom, and then maybe the substrate would cover only a half inch or so, giving it the appearance of growing into the ground, all the while preserving the sight of the smaller roots. This one is really only half of a tree anyways. The back is flat and designed to be attached to the back pane of glass, or incorporated into a background of some sort. Do you think that would work? If not, making the roots taller, or even adding "spacers" to the bottom would help out.


----------



## GRIMM

It could definitely just sit ontop of the substrate, but seing as the bottom is pretty flat, the substrate would almost have to be level with it. At least to me, a perfectly level substrate looks a little unnatural and noobish lol


----------



## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> Thank you so much Dave! that was an incredibly helpful article! i really appreciate it. Once i get a more brownish grey coat of drylok on it, I will follow your directions on painting it. Hopefully it will look good!
> 
> Melo, i got the grey stuff at Ace hardware, so if you have one around where you live, i'd check. I had no idea it came in grey either until i saw it right next to the white haha. From what i have heard, If you apply the right amount of drylok to the foam, it will become completely waterproof.


I dont think i have an Ace hardware around me but ill call all the places i think would have it, and hopefully not spend 20 minutes on the phone like you did haha. Are you going to tint the drylok with the paints and then paint over that or are you just going to straight paint it?


----------



## ryan10517

Melo said:


> I dont think i have an Ace hardware around me but ill call all the places i think would have it, and hopefully not spend 20 minutes on the phone like you did haha. Are you going to tint the drylok with the paints and then paint over that or are you just going to straight paint it?


both kind of. I'm going to play with the color of the drylok by mixing in acrylic in order to get a nice base color to work with. Then once i'm satisfied with the base color, i'll go over it with straight acrylic to add detail, shading, moss growth, lichens, etc etc.... if it turns out like i see it in my head, this thing should be pretty badass. Unfortunately for me, i've never been completely satisfied with any art project i have completed. I think i'm a perfectionist... just a really lousy one lol.


----------



## ryan10517

out of 83 posts on this thread, 33 of them are mine... thats 40%..... i think i talk to much hahahaha


----------



## LookinRound

ryan10517 said:


> out of 83 posts on this thread, 33 of them are mine... thats 40%..... i think i talk to much hahahaha


I was just thinking the same thing when I came to see if anything new on the boards and once again it was just your thread... I can almost count on it being bold with new posts haha


----------



## ryan10517

hahahaha i think i'll slow down on my useless rambling and only post significant updates. At least i'll try! no promises  


Maybe i should get off the damn computer and actually work on this thing....


----------



## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> hahahaha i think i'll slow down on my useless rambling and only post significant updates. At least i'll try! no promises
> 
> 
> Maybe i should get off the damn computer and actually work on this thing....


LOL i agree and i should go and get to work on my tanks as well, i have 3 sitting in my room a 5.5 test tank a 29 gallon and a 65 gallon, all empty....


----------



## ryan10517

i feel your pain bro. empty tank syndrome is a bitch! 


Anyways, i got a base color down on the stump. I can't really say that I'm pleased with it, but im not gonna mess with the base color anymore. Tell me what you guys think. Personally, its way darker than what i originally wanted. Oh well..... As they say, a real artist still makes mistakes, they just know how to cover them up 










tell me what you guys think!


----------



## Teckdragon

Wrong color or not, I would totally buy one.


----------



## Scott Richardson

ryan10517 said:


> i feel your pain bro. empty tank syndrome is a bitch!
> 
> 
> Anyways, i got a base color down on the stump. I can't really say that I'm pleased with it, but im not gonna mess with the base color anymore. Tell me what you guys think. Personally, its way darker than what i originally wanted. Oh well..... As they say, a real artist still makes mistakes, they just know how to cover them up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tell me what you guys think!


I think you better wipe up the paint on your dad's floor


----------



## Scott Richardson

:d:d:d:d:d


----------



## arielelf

The base color looks good, darker is always better for a base coat, It could even be darker.


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## ryan10517

Scott Richardson said:


> I think you better wipe up the paint on your dad's floor


hahahahahaha trust me you don't know how many times i've heard that today! 


Just got done with the shading on the stump. Pics coming soon! To be honest, it doesn't look half bad. I'll let you guys decide that though.....


----------



## talbot777

Looks good. But i'd definitely try and drybrush a light grey/brown colour over the top to try and get a more natural effect


----------



## ryan10517

Before









After









Lots better huh! I think the shading really gives it a lot more depth. Here are a few more shots.








sorry about the shiny-ness, but i couldn't get a good picture without flash
















whoa didn't notice this one was so blurry. Not sure what happened there










Next step is detail/moss/lichens! I'm actually surprised i haven't ruined this thing yet. JSYK, she still needs a home, so if you have a tank big enough, keep an eye out in the parts and supplies classifieds for the "auction thread" i'll have.


Give me all the criticism you can throw at me! its helped me greatly so far, so i would love to hear more feedback from y'all 

Ryan


----------



## Yobosayo

My only criticism is that you don't have six or seven more in the works


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## Melo

Ryan to be honest, i would have probably bought it with just the basecoat on it thinking it was done... aha it looks SOO good, now get working on that DIY guide so i can make one  So is it still kind of shiny without the flash, i know there are some artist varnishes that give it a matte finish if its too shiny. It looks amazing though, id give you an A+ if i was an art teacher haha


----------



## davecalk

ryan10517 said:


> Next step is detail/moss/lichens! I'm actually surprised i haven't ruined this thing yet. JSYK, she still needs a home, so if you have a tank big enough, keep an eye out in the parts and supplies classifieds for the "auction thread" i'll have.
> 
> 
> Give me all the criticism you can throw at me! its helped me greatly so far, so i would love to hear more feedback from y'all
> 
> Ryan


One suggestion. In the deep groves / cracks, those areas will show more depth if they are very dark. Black. Then painting using washes of different tones of colors working from the dark to the light, ie. from deepest crack area to the highlights on the tops, the areas that would catch the sun.

These are some of the techniques that work well.











Using a sea sponge to dab colors lightly also works well.


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## ryan10517

thanks for those videos dave. I mostly used the wash technique for the shadows. I may not have made the shadow color as dark as it could have been, but i did go in after it dried and drybrushed some of the other cracks and concave parts with straight black to give it a little added depth. I added some dark green moss growth where i think it would naturally occur, and tried to simulate the compression rings (i think thats what they are called) on the buttress roots with a fan brush. I added a little bit of splotchy black all around too just to break up the color a bit. I took some pictures, but my camera has gone officially retarded, and doesn't show the correct color at all. I'll post them so you guys get the idea, but the flash makes it look really shiny, and the camera itself could not focus at all. Maybe i can convince my neighbor to let me borrow her nikon d3000 to take some nice pics. 

















haha for some reason this picture looks really gross...



























Sorry i'm such a picture whore... i want you guys to see what i'm seeing though. It actually looks darker and more creepy looking in person. Kinda like it came from the forest of lost souls or something lol. I need to touch up a few things, get shipping all figured out, and then hopefully find a good home for her. You guys think it needs anything else? tell me your opinions!


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## ryan10517

i got a better color representation from my camera phone haha. here is some more pictures. I think i need more moss growth on it. Agree or disagree?
























I don't think you guys have seen the back, so here is what is goin on back there


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## Melo

It definetly looks like a tree out of some horrow film haha, but it looks sooo good. Gimme Gimme haha Im going to have to go through all the posts and write down all the supplies you used so that i can go out and get some myself  mine wont look anywhere close to as good as yours but ill try


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## heatfreakk3

I agree a little more moss on it would look good, it looks amazing already though! I hope mine turns out this good!


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## ryan10517

no worries chris. I've learned a lot from making this one, and they will only improve with time. Yours will look as good or probably better than this one. Now i just need to get started on it! 

btw the green moss really pops under 6500k lighting. It'll look sweet in a viv for sure!


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## ryan10517

touched up on some parts w/ drylok and acrylics tonight. I'm calling it officially done!


Not my best work, but adequate for a first attempt in my opinion. I will post a new thread in the plants and supplies classifieds section. It will be a dendroboard "auction" so the highest bidder at the end of a seven day period will be the recipient of this piece. I'm only doing this auction to determine how much i will sell possible future pieces for. Hopefully it will work out! I will take the stump to the ups store tomorrow to get a rough estimate on shipping. It shouldn't be that much, as the piece is pretty lightweight. 

Pics as of tonight


























Let me know if it's missing anything!

Ryan


----------



## lukebalsavich

Looks good. Really good. Have you checked the pH of the surfaces? Also did you seal the whole thing (front and back)? Just checking.


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## ryan10517

just checked the pH, and it came back just a tad basic (7.2), but thats nothing compared to a concrete or grout covered sculpture. The tree has been coverd completely in two coats in Drylok, one untinted, and one tinted afterwards. Just plain acrylic paint after that. They both seem to hold up great under high humidity and misting, so i'm confident that it will be viv compatible. Unfortunately i have no viv big enough for it to go into, otherwise i would test it out myself.


----------



## Melo

How much drylok do you have left? im definetly going to make one of these or a stone structure of some kind. how well do you think this stuff would work for a waterfall?


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## ryan10517

i literally have about 19/20ths of a can left, and that was with two fairly liberal coats. A little goes a long way! 


Got some bad news guys..... well make that two things of bad news. 
1. i stopped by the UPS store earlier, and the dude said because of the size of it, it would cost approx. $75 to ship it from here (central illinois) to california. So basically, if people want to buy it, shipping might not be favorable if you live far away.
2.apparently auctions are not permitted here on DB, because my classified ad never showed up, meaning a mod denied it. Mods, please contact me and explain why if thats not too much trouble. I'm not necessarily mad, but just confused as to why it was not posted. 


I think i'll just lower the price to $20 to counter out the price of shipping. Hopefully someone local wants this so i don't have to deal with shipping in the first place. 


Thanks, 

Ryan


----------



## Melo

Holy! 75$ for shipping?! Now imagine if you had to ship to canada haha. Well I better go pick me up some drylok and start my build! Have 3 tanks to fill haha


----------



## ryan10517

i know right! i thought that price was outrageous too! maybe USPS would have better prices, but their tracking system is crap and they loose packages more often from what i've heard. At least i'm not shipping frogs or something!

Good luck with your builds man, and thanks for following my thread all the way through lol. And i forgot to mention your waterfall idea... The drylok will be fine when submenged for a long period, but as for acrylic paint, i'm honestly not sure how well it would hold up under water. High humidity and misting are one thing, but constant water flow is a lot more harsh on things like this. If you do decide to do it, i would not use straight acrylic, but instead mix it with the drylok in small portions and detail paint with that. Keep us all updated on what you end up doing!

Ryan


----------



## Melo

Your posts were awesome how could i not follow it all the way!! Ill definetly be postin what i do soon, just started my mini 5.5 test build, dont have everything i need though


----------



## ryan10517

Woo! auction is up! i lowered the starting bid to $20 too, so jump on it! she needs to go!

link: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/69257-buttress-root-tree-auction.html


----------



## davecalk

ryan10517 said:


> your waterfall idea... The drylok will be fine when submenged for a long period, but as for acrylic paint, i'm honestly not sure how well it would hold up under water. High humidity and misting are one thing, but constant water flow is a lot more harsh on things like this. If you do decide to do it, i would not use straight acrylic, but instead mix it with the drylok in small portions and detail paint with that.
> Ryan


Mixing the acrylic into the drylok is an excellent suggestion. It will allow the colors to hold.


----------



## ryan10517

bump. still up for grabs. $20 obo.


----------



## Melo

man i wish you were here in canada haha


----------



## ryan10517

hey do canadians use maple leaves for leaf litter? hahaha i'll let you get you get back to your hockey and canadian bacon


----------



## boabab95

ryan10517 said:


> hey do canadians use maple leaves for leaf litter? hahaha i'll let you get you get back to your hockey and canadian bacon


maple leafs dont last long  but yes, for microfauna


----------



## brod322

Looks great think I'll give it a try as well


----------



## JealousFist

This was a very informative thread


----------



## ryan10517

well..... looks like this baby might have a bright future after all.... I just picked up a great condition 75 gallon with light, top, and undergravel filter for TEN DOLLARS!!!!! yea thats right... ten bucks.... jealous much?? i knew you would be 


God i love garage sales!


----------



## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> well..... looks like this baby might have a bright future after all.... I just picked up a great condition 75 gallon with light, top, and undergravel filter for TEN DOLLARS!!!!! yea thats right... ten bucks.... jealous much?? i knew you would be
> 
> 
> God i love garage sales!


Yes im jealous!!! lol you my friend are one lucky guy haha, i got a 65gallon tanke for free but it has a crack on one side but it just needs a little bit of coverup and it will be fine haha


----------



## ryan10517

i think i'm gonna give it to a local frogger in return for a 40 breeder. He needs it for his pair of fly river turtles, and i really don't have a use for it. Really its the least i can do because of all the help he has given me this past year getting me into this hobby. 

There are lots of big tanks out there. It seems that people initially spend a lot of money on fish tanks, but when they don't have good luck with that hobby, they either throw them away, or sell them for outrageously low prices. My friend found a 50 gallon oceanic tank for free on the side of the road. Perfect condition


----------



## Melo

Thats awesome, yeah i got the 65 gallon from someone who is helping me out getting into the hobby as well. Gotta love nice people eh? Yeah its weird how as soon as an aquarium is used, its worth drops so much, even if you bought the tank like a week ago, you probably wont get anywhere close to what you paid for it.


----------



## ryan10517

i've noticed that as well. it may just be the economy, because with money being so tight, there isn't a huge market for exotic pets and fish tanks and well hobbies in general. A lot of people just sell off their stuff to get rid of it, cuz honestly, fish tanks and dart frogs are not cheap hobbies!

Man it just seems like all the cool hobbies are really expensive, and the free ones are just stupid and boring. maybe i just like to spend money? hell that could be a hobby in itself haha


----------



## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> i've noticed that as well. it may just be the economy, because with money being so tight, there isn't a huge market for exotic pets and fish tanks and well hobbies in general. A lot of people just sell off their stuff to get rid of it, cuz honestly, fish tanks and dart frogs are not cheap hobbies!
> 
> Man it just seems like all the cool hobbies are really expensive, and the free ones are just stupid and boring. maybe i just like to spend money? hell that could be a hobby in itself haha


Well there is one thats kind of free that i think is cool haha, thats insect collecting, all you need to do is get the initial stuff like a net, pins, and a box to put them in and then you are set haha you can go out collecting bugs and pin the ones you find and have a sweet collection, im doing that too  dont have too much stuff yet but ill get there haha. I had a chameleon before when i was in school and it was super expensive, cause luckily with darts breeding fruitflies is fairly cheap and easy to do, unlike the cost of crickets. All the food for darts seems pretty easy to maintain with little cost which is what i like . I still want another chameleon though  i miss her haha


----------



## ryan10517

insect collecting eh? thats sweet. the closest i've done is capture and pin a luna moth (which i'm not sure is legal) I think i did an okay job at mounting it though. 

With darts its a very large initial expense to get your viv up and running, buy plants, acquire frogs, etc... but not too much after that. I honestly refuse to buy an animal that eats crickets or mice/rats. Too much money for food. thats definitely a plus for fruitflies though!


----------



## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> insect collecting eh? thats sweet. the closest i've done is capture and pin a luna moth (which i'm not sure is legal) I think i did an okay job at mounting it though.
> 
> With darts its a very large initial expense to get your viv up and running, buy plants, acquire frogs, etc... but not too much after that. I honestly refuse to buy an animal that eats crickets or mice/rats. Too much money for food. thats definitely a plus for fruitflies though!


Omg you caught a luna moth!? I want one of those so bad haha, some species are protected, but i have no idea which ones are and which ones are not, you could just say you thought it was a different species and they cant really do anything  I know that monarch butterflies are protected and some swallowtail butterflies but thats about all i know of the protected species. The best thing ive cause is a cicada just emerging as an adult, so i have the exuviant (molt) as well which is pretty sweet haha. 

Crickets are MAD expensive....and they make noise when they are adults, and even if they arent adults, if they escape, they will grow into an adult and start making noise haha


----------



## gosaspursm

Right there with you on crickets. Just switched over to breeding dubia roaches instead. They are less noisey, smelly, active and are hardy as can be. Overall I have been much happier with them.


----------



## Melo

gosaspursm said:


> Right there with you on crickets. Just switched over to breeding dubia roaches instead. They are less noisey, smelly, active and are hardy as can be. Overall I have been much happier with them.


yeah man dubia roaches are the bomb! one of the easiest things to breed lol all you need is a bin, some egg carton and some heat and you are good to go, I just used to feed them leftover fruits and veggies and stuff and they were hardly a pain, just the odd scratching around but thats it


----------



## ryan10517

thats sweet. i've never tried roaches before, but thankfully i don't have anything big right now. I used to work at a pet store, and we always had hundreds of crickets loose, but some house geckos had escaped and started a small population in the store and they took care of the crickets. The geckos were fine in there just because we kept the thermostat at like 78-80 and because of the fish tanks, the humidity was pretty high. I remember one gecko got stuck to a piece of tape on a poster way high up, and its still there to this day hahaha


----------



## Melo

ryan10517 said:


> thats sweet. i've never tried roaches before, but thankfully i don't have anything big right now. I used to work at a pet store, and we always had hundreds of crickets loose, but some house geckos had escaped and started a small population in the store and they took care of the crickets. The geckos were fine in there just because we kept the thermostat at like 78-80 and because of the fish tanks, the humidity was pretty high. I remember one gecko got stuck to a piece of tape on a poster way high up, and its still there to this day hahaha


WHAT haha thats pretty sweet that you had a resident population of geckos in the store but poor little gecko that got stuck to the tape lol must have sucked for him haha


----------



## ryan10517

well i just tripped over the tree and busted it all up. its in the trash now. too bad nobody took it. it could have had a nice home. oh well it was good practice for future projects. kinda pissed though... i was even ready to give it away for free


----------



## LookinRound

oh no, what an awful ending


----------



## ryan10517

i really don't care about the tree. i'm more mad that i stubbed my toe on it lol. i'm pretty sure my little brother learned a few new words when it happened hahaha. it hurt like a mofo lol


----------



## Submarinr

Sorry to hear that Ryan
Just found this thread and you've done a great job w/ that stump

I am about to begin my own (first) modeling project and think i will try a miniaturized version of my end product first too, just to see where i can go wrong 
Maybe if its small enoujgh I'll be sure to avoid tripping over it too ;0)P


----------



## ryan10517

Submarinr said:


> Sorry to hear that Ryan
> Just found this thread and you've done a great job w/ that stump
> 
> I am about to begin my own (first) modeling project and think i will try a miniaturized version of my end product first too, just to see where i can go wrong
> Maybe if its small enoujgh I'll be sure to avoid tripping over it too ;0)P


haha thanks man. just make sure not to leave it on your floor for a month right where people always walk hahaha. Not my smartest move. Don't worry though. I still owe heatfreakk3 one and i haven't even started on it yet hahaha. It will be made soon enough though. I think i'm making one for a 40b i'm getting too....


----------



## ryan10517

Me and a friend were talkin today, and we both thought this was an amazing idea: build a life size eight foot tall buttress root tree to put in the corner if his room next to all his tanks and stuff. Awesome right?!?!? Same method of construction, just on an epic scale. Honestly it wouldn't be all that expensive. I think it would be a sweet addition to any frog room! hahaha


----------



## boabab95

ryan10517 said:


> Me and a friend were talkin today, and we both thought this was an amazing idea: build a life size eight foot tall buttress root tree to put in the corner if his room next to all his tanks and stuff. Awesome right?!?!? Same method of construction, just on an epic scale. Honestly it wouldn't be all that expensive. I think it would be a sweet addition to any frog room! hahaha




then just pour some concrete on the floor, and put some glass up!!! that would be a sick leuc tank...


hmmm...that gives me an idea for a tank...


----------



## ryan10517

haha wouldn't that be awesome! i can't imagine how expensive the glass would be though


----------



## boabab95

ryan10517 said:


> haha wouldn't that be awesome! i can't imagine how expensive the glass would be though


Use acrylic, it's cheaper, and as long as it's not scratched up a lot, it looks better than glass IMO...


----------



## james67

boabab95 said:


> Use acrylic, it's cheaper, and as long as it's not scratched up a lot, it looks better than glass IMO...


i know we're talking theoretical tanks here but,

tanks this size are good candidates for plywood construction. ensuring an all glass tank of this size is, and stays, perfectly level is crucial. any torsion in the glass over the large surface can easily break it. although glass is somewhat flexible, wood has some big advantages. it bends far more easily to absorb small stresses in the tank, and holds tank temps more efficiently. it also has the benefit of decreased weight (as opposed to glass)

really only glass doors are needed.

james


----------



## ryan10517

i've actually wanted to build a plywood tank for a long time. Something like thedeeb's 300 gallon paludarium would be an awesome project. Possibly a little much for an 18 year old college student though lol. 

but come on, wouldn't it be awesome to have one of these 








sitting in your room next to your bed or something??? i think it would be awesome. Just paint the walls forest green, hang some liana vines from the ceiling, and bam! you now live in a rainforest hahahah.


BTW, that picture belongs to saurian enterprises inc. Sorry Patrick


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## boabab95

If i had the space, I'd just had a giant Ficus...that way you get the butress and the banyan roots 

we had some at work with small butresses and TONS of Banyan roots...they went for $250 and were 30' tall...sold them in 45 minutes of bringing them in...


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## Submarinr

Interesting that you'd bring that up..

When I was considering different "themes" for my baby girl's room - didn't go this route, cause it was way more work than I could get done in time and I actually didn't see the idea til afterward; but...

I saw a kids room design in a magazine somewhere I think that was a fantasy forest theme w/a large "tree house" dresser complete w/ door and drawers that would be similarly constructed I would suspect..

Never really thought of doing it w/ just foam though.. hmmm ;0)P


Joe


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## Submarinr

Ryan, 

you'd likely be interested in my current palu design idea 
- I haven't begun the sculpting portion yet, still working on the frame(s) and technical aspects.. 


_*(warning this idea is likley WAY more than I can possibly accomplish in a 47 gal high tank - but *just* for kicks, I'm trying it)*_

*IDEA* is to create a silk cotton (buttress root tree) *fallen*- on a mountain slope (I have sloped the false bottom about 25* from front to back.

The mountain slope will have a fissure angled from top to bottom
The fissure will contain the *drip* water fall; that will accumulate in 2 different pools before ending up in 6-8" of water area below FB

My plan is to create the tree roots and limbs in a way that they appear to be overturned due to the fissure (everything has to have a rationale right?!) ;0)

And, the kicker - and the step TOO FAR likely, is to have a bit of temple ruin exposed by the fissure and toppled tree - to look as though it had been hidden and overgrown and was thus "pushed up" out of the cover underneath the trees roots..
Inspiration from some Cambodian temple ruin images I'd looked up... (FYI)

phew.. anyway.. tough bit of sculpting I have in front of me and no real experience in modeling anyway.. so don't know if it will all come together or not.. but that's my *idea* anyway ;0)

Scaling is my biggest obstacle at this point.. Its hard to imagine "plants" and "trees" at the same size.. but I am hoping to fool my mind into thinking the plants *ARE* trees and the fallen tree is just one of many... sort of a fantasy / Avatar type setting..

And, it gets better.. I want the whole land mass to look as if its "floating" in the air.. cloud mountain like...
I am going to install a fogger (got one of the Vicks Daz units on sale for *.37 yesterday - picked up two - harbor freight if anyone is interested - found deal on a diff forum in fact) and that the fog will create the cloud below the mountain (right above the water feature below)

White Cloud Mt minnows (long fin) or Celestial Pearl Danios (galaxy rasboras) are going to be in water below - hopefully ;0)


Of course, I am photo journalling all my current work and will post a journal of my own once completed or nearly completed 

Joe


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## Submarinr

ok, after this one i have to get to work ;0)

Check out this site:

www.engreat.com


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## ryan10517

dude that tank sounds sick! Very imaginative and creative. It sounds so much cooler than your average false bottom/hydroton tank with a few broms, plant clippings and leaf litter. I'm a firm believer that a strong hardscape that has a good focal point can really make a tank go from drab to incredible. I'm looking forward to seeing this tank. Remember you can always use small plants, mosses, and aquatics to simulate undergrowth rather than big plants that are not necessarily to scale. Some species of sellaginella, hemianthus callichtriodes, glossostigma elatinoids, staurogeyne repens, ultricularia gramnifolia, cryptocoryne species, orchids, and many others are good candidates for this. JSYK i probably didn't spell any of those right hahaha.

My 40b that i will hopefully get soon is going to be a rocky buttress tree paludarium type of thing. The glass of the water portion will be hidden by fake rocks and tree roots, with a small internal filter in the back. Idk... it sounds cool in my head hahahaha. still not sure on what background method to use.


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## Submarinr

Thanks for the props, .. Its a bit overly enthusiastic, but I believe I've worked out how to make the tree finally so I'll (hopefully) get some time this weekend to begin some trial modeling 


*Your idea sounds cool too.. w/ one caveat.. if you rock off the view to the water.. then you wont' be able to see any fish you could put in there!! Unless your water level will be too small - but even then, cherry shrimp would be a cool addition too! *

Think i'm going to go to Hobby Lobby to get some of that green floral foam or something that will come in large blocks - that way i dont have to glue a bunch of smaller styro pieces together ;0)
_Anyone have any experience using this type of 'foam'? I've seen others use it for palus?_


On the plants, I see you know your aquatics too.. That is my *primary* hobby actually.. I keep a FULLY planted 75 gal in my livingroom w/ 4X65w PC & 2x55w T5HO bulbs; CO2 Injection, bi-weekly dry fertilization, etc etc.

I actually have most all of those plants you mention already growing emersed in outdoor tubs, ponds, containers now - in anticipation of using them in my paludarium project.
Currently growing emersed:
Staurogyne repens - in a mini Wabi Kusa bowl
Rotala magenta - growing up out of pond
Nesea triflora - ""
Hygrophila sp. Bold & Tiger - ""
Limnophila sp. Mini "Vietnam" - growing emersed in a tub
Elantine trianda - ""
Glossostigma elatinoides - growing emersed along the top of my display tank (and flowering, I might add -  )
Misc Cryptocoryne sp - also growing emersed in tubs

*HAD* some HC and UG growing in a "dry start" set up - but unfortunately lost them all to overheating.. beginning that project again soon. 
*Just need to find more HC & UG (fast!)*

I like the Sellaginela too and plan to utilize some of that as well as some dwarf broms and orchids (been practicing caring for both larger terrestrial types for the past year and think I can keep them alive now!)

I also have quite a bit of locally collected terrestrial mosses - most of which I have growing along w/ some (practice) carnivorous plants in a couple of old aquariums kept outside on my paito right now.
I likely won't use them in *this* palu because I am afraid they are a bit too temperate to handle the higher tropical temps likely occurring in this tank.

The only "true" terrarium plants I have currently are Microsorum linguiforme & a tiny bit of (what I believe to be) Peperomia prostrata

In addition, I plan to use some other tropical aquatics that I am converting to emersed growth currently; ie Flame Moss, Java Fern "Trident", Rotala indica & an unidentified Ludwigia species collected locally.

Got my egg crate false bottom cut and covered in screening this week - need to add the weed paper and then I can install in tank.. I'll get some initial pics up soon perhaps


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## ryan10517

here is a sketch of my idea of the rocky buttress tank








not the best drawing, but it shows what i'm talking about. Here are a few pictures of some of the practice fake rocks for this tank. I will be cutting a "slit" in the rock and sliding it over the glass insert to hide it if that makes sense lol. 

























I've seen the green floral foam be used before. its safe as long as its coated completely. 

You could say i know my aquatics, i just don't know how to keep them alive! hahaha i'm a bit of a brown thumb. Right now i only have 2 tanks going: a 30 gallon w/ 2x36 watt AH supply kit mineralized topsoil. That tank is almost a lost cause. So many plant deficiencies, bga, bba, and every other kind of horrible algae, and no growth just death. On the opposite end of the spectrum, i have a home made 5 gallon cube tank that is going crazy! Easy plants (heteranthera zosterifolia, rotala rotundifolia, eleocharis acicularis, riccia fluitans) but growth is incredibly fast. I'm almost trimming 2-3 times a week! That tank has a home built 26 watt 6500k cfl fixture over it, mineralized topsoil topped with red fluorite, and DIY co2. So far no algae other than some diatoms. I'm only fertilizing w/ fluorish comprehensive and excel right now. i need to go EI on both tanks, but i don't wanna dish out the 30 bucks for dry ferts. 

Go and post pictures of all your tanks, ponds, wabi kusa, and everything else in my "Planted Aquariums" thread in the lounge. I want to see them!

Oh and just so you know, you only need the screen over the false bottom. No need for extra weed paper. One or the other will suffice. 

Good luck with everything, and keep us updated!

BTW i'm also on Aquatic plant central, and The planted tank under the same screen name. If you're on either one, feel free to add me as a friend or somethin haha. 

Later, 

Ryan


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## Submarinr

I think that will turn out pretty good! Like the rocks too.. very "coppery" looking - and now I understand what you meant about lining the glass w/ rock too ;0)


Im on APC too, same nomiker as well. Will gather some pics and post in your thread - soon ;0)


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## ryan10517

Submarinr said:


> I think that will turn out pretty good! Like the rocks too.. very "coppery" looking - and now I understand what you meant about lining the glass w/ rock too ;0)
> 
> 
> Im on APC too, same nomiker as well. Will gather some pics and post in your thread - soon ;0)


haha thanks for the compliment. I'm honestly not sure if i'm gonna do the whole 40 breeder idea now.... lol. Have you guys ever heard of Angkor Wat Cambodia? Its an old religious temple thats starting to fall apart. There are lots of cool stone architecture and faces carved in the walls and stuff. The coolest part is the rainforest trees growing on the temple and attaching themselves via buttress/banyan roots. I'm thinking it would be sweet to make a tank that looks like the temple with roots growing all over it. Google it and tell me it wouldn't be awesome!


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## Submarinr

ryan10517 said:


> Have you guys ever heard of Angkor Wat Cambodia? Its an old religious temple thats starting to fall apart. There are lots of cool stone architecture and faces carved in the walls and stuff. The coolest part is the rainforest trees growing on the temple and attaching themselves via buttress/banyan roots. I'm thinking it would be sweet to make a tank that looks like the temple with roots growing all over it. Google it and tell me it wouldn't be awesome!


Those are the temple/ruin images where I got my idea from in fact ;0)

I've sculpted out a "rough" doorway/alcove - ish concept - and am toying w/ either including a rough/partially crumbled (so I don't have to get too detailed) "aspara" image or simply go w/ the brick/stone surface and a "hole in the wall" 
See (Angkor Wat Apsara & Devata: Khmer Women in Divine Context)

... just enough detail to give it the impression of a ruin.. the silk cotton tree roots will be partially covering the ruins in my concept anyway.. 
I *plan* to work on the roots and truck portions tonight.. depending on how the baby behaves once i get her home ;0)P


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## Submarinr

Here's a novice question for everyone paying attention

What is difference btwn "buttress" roots and the other kind that seem to look more like spindly legs??

I had trouble finding accurate representations of both - with the "silk cotton" and "giant fig" trees being attributed to the same images (or very similar looking images) in different places .. so couldn't tell which was really which.. but do know that my project (roots) will be more "spindly" but also quite thick (butrress-y) near the truck area (maybe a hybrid of both, I'm not certain how it will turn out yet)


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## Chunky

For the OP, WOW! Very nice job! I suck at caring styrofoam, i've tried making a tree root design with styro and have made really bad ones! Maybe if you could post a little tutorial on how to make one  I've only had success with the greatstuff/silicone/peat/rope/tube kind. Again very nice job!


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## Chunky

Submarinr said:


> Here's a novice question for everyone paying attention
> 
> What is difference btwn "buttress" roots and the other kind that seem to look more like spindly legs??
> 
> I had trouble finding accurate representations of both - with the "silk cotton" and "giant fig" trees being attributed to the same images (or very similar looking images) in different places .. so couldn't tell which was really which.. but do know that my project (roots) will be more "spindly" but also quite thick (butrress-y) near the truck area (maybe a hybrid of both, I'm not certain how it will turn out yet)


Actually, correct me if i'm wrong, but a buttress tree root actually has the stingy roots, but this one that he made isn't a buttress tree root, but rather just a tree root.


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## ryan10517

I think you have that turned around. since rain forest soil is so nutrient deprived, all the trees have a very shallow root system. In order to keep themselves from falling over, trees use a root system partially above the ground with a very large footprint. It also increases the surface area of the roots in order to obtain more nutrients. Tree buttresses are not stringy and broken up.

There are other areal roots that more or less attach themselves to other plants (epiphytes like the strangler fig) or rocks and stuff like at Angkor Wat (lithophytes) 

Some fig trees just have crazy stringy areal roots that go all the way to the ground for some reason. The banyan tree for example.

I will be making a tutorial sometime.... i just haven't started yet haha.


I know it sounds really labor intensive, but i'm actually thinking about making each individual sone block out of foam, and then sanding/sculpting them to make them look old and worn, then gluing them together. And of course dryloking and painting the whole structure. I think the realistic cracks and crevices of each stone next to eachother would make incredibly detailed realistically looking temple ruins. 

And sorry for stealing your idea submarinr


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## Submarinr

ryan10517 said:


> I think you have that turned around. since rain forest soil is so nutrient deprived, all the trees have a very shallow root system. I will be making a tutorial sometime.... i just haven't started yet haha.
> 
> 
> I know it sounds really labor intensive, but i'm actually thinking about making each individual sone block out of foam, and then sanding/sculpting them to make them look old and worn, then gluing them together. And of course dryloking and painting the whole structure. I think the realistic cracks and crevices of each stone next to eachother would make incredibly detailed realistically looking temple ruins.
> 
> And sorry for stealing your idea submarinr




lol.. no sweats really! ;0)
be good to have someone else doing same thing so I can bounce ideas and designs off of.. I like the individ stone making idea - but very labor intensive 

RE - the tree roots thing.. thats why I am always confused.. since the above ground (vine like) roots as well as the heavy/thick (sometime compressed laterally) styled root systems are all technically a form of "buttress" 
_- am I right??_

I like the silk cotton (Ankor Wat type) roots but will likely go w/a thinner (more vine-like) root system so that I'll be able to actually *see* the ruin/rubble underneath.
Something more akin to a mangrove style but thicker trunk and roots too.

I'll try to put up some photos of my current progress this week (got a lot of yard work to do when I get home so don't think the Mrs will allow me to play too much tonight ;0)P


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## ryan10517

haahaha i'm somewhat confused about it too. lets just call them roots and thats it! lol. I'm thinking my plan will be to incorporate the entire background and sides of the tank with one tree/root system on either side.


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## yellow dart frog man

that tree root and fossil looks A W S O M E!!


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## ryan10517

yellow dart frog man said:


> that tree root and fossil looks A W S O M E!!


why thank you sir!


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## ryan10517

Hey guys, just so you know, my second tree is still in the making right now. I'd say its ~80% done, and it already looks better than the first. I will show you guys one picture when it is done. I don't want to spoil the DIY video i'm making for the next contest (that is if we ever get around to kicking than one off...) 


Heatfreakk3, this tree is going to you if you still want it... sorry its like 4 months overdue lol. you can have it for shipping costs if you want


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## ncc2015

What did you use to make the fossil? It looks wonderful.


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## ryan10517

ncc2015 said:


> What did you use to make the fossil? It looks wonderful.


the fossil was made similarly to the trees. I carved out a foam blank, shaped it with sanders, etc... then i used plaster to coat it (not to be confused with drylok i used for the trees) then i painted it with straight acrylic. pretty simple really.


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## james67

what kind of plaster?

james


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## ryan10517

james67 said:


> what kind of plaster?
> 
> james


plaster of paris. nothing special. I doubt it would hold up in high humidity or anything. It was an art project after all  I did have to sand it a good amount before painting it. Lets just say it kicked all the other art projects' asses


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## james67

make sure you dont use it in a viv.  gypsum (plaster of paris) is a powerful irritant. it also holds moisture and becomes a breeding ground for all sorts of nasty molds.

james


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## ryan10517

most definitely! ya i would never consider plaster with any kind of animal haha. it works great for high school art projects though. Just to make sure nobody gets confused... DON'T USE PLASTER IN A VIV! now how much do you want to bet there will be at least someone that asks if they can use it.....


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## dartboard

So can you use plaster in vivs?


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## james67

dartboard said:


> So can you use plaster in vivs?


yes. just pour it in the tank and put the frogs in. no need to wait till it cures.

james


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## ryan10517

james67 said:


> yes. just pour it in the tank and put the frogs in. no need to wait till it cures.
> 
> james


its also a great fly culture media! careful though, it dries out pretty fast!


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## ryan10517

I give you..... SECOND attempt at a buttress root tree!!!


This is all you guys get. I'm saving the other 1389753 pictures for the video tutorial.


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## boabab95

ryan10517 said:


> I give you..... SECOND attempt at a buttress root tree!!!
> 
> 
> This is all you guys get. I'm saving the other 1389753 pictures for the video tutorial.




WOAH! 

 how much is shipping to Canada?


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## ryan10517

boabab95 said:


> WOAH!
> 
> how much is shipping to Canada?


if anything close to the last one, i'm estimating $186,742.26 USD hahahahaha 

Sorry but this one has to go to heatfreakk3 just cuz i promised him i would make him one (although its like a good 4 months late lol)


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## ryan10517

bumpity bump... What do all you other people think of this one? Personally i think it is better than the first, but i need some second opinions though.


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## davecalk

ryan10517 said:


> bumpity bump... What do all you other people think of this one? Personally i think it is better than the first, but i need some second opinions though.


It is better than the first one. It looks great. I wait with bated breath for the build tutorial. Should be excellent.


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## ryan10517

davecalk said:


> It is better than the first one. It looks great. I wait with bated breath for the build tutorial. Should be excellent.


thanks man. of course i'm not satisfied with it though... i can't seem to get the broken top to look right. Any suggestions with that?


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## davecalk

What looks more unnatural is the shape and depth of the top. Try making the depth of the Vee deeper. Maybe follow the irregular vee that is formed by the two small vines on the top right. 






























The striations that would be the grain of the wood exposed also would help with the natural look.



















Other then those thoughts it really is looking great. You have done a excellent job with it.


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## ryan10517

davecalk said:


> What looks more unnatural is the shape and depth of the top. Try making the depth of the Vee deeper. Maybe follow the irregular vee that is formed by the two small vines on the top right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The striations that would be the grain of the wood exposed also would help with the natural look.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other then those thoughts it really is looking great. You have done a excellent job with it.


Dave, i can't thank you enough for the help you have given me with these builds! I see what you mean by making the vee deeper and more dramatic. The vines were an after-the-fact thing i kinda thought up, so they are kinda out of place haha. What do you think about the color and texture of it? does it look natural to you?? I did not use the wash technique on this build because on the last one the straight acrylic gave it a shimmery glossy kind of finish that i thought looked unattractive. Everything on this one is small portions of drylok mixed with acrylic to give me the color i want. Mostly all drybrushed on. Took me longer to shade and color, but i think the overall look is much nicer.


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## sarahatl

Amazing thread! Ryan, how did you get the big block of styrofoam? Did you take the 4x8 sheet and cut it to make a block? If so, what did you use to glue the cut portions together? Also, in your second attempt, what did you use for the roots (rope?) going around the tree? Thanks!


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## ryan10517

sarahatl said:


> Amazing thread! Ryan, how did you get the big block of styrofoam? Did you take the 4x8 sheet and cut it to make a block? If so, what did you use to glue the cut portions together? Also, in your second attempt, what did you use for the roots (rope?) going around the tree? Thanks!


glad you like it sarah! I got the sheet of Styrofoam at a local Menards hardware store in the insulation department. I think it was around ten bucks, and it has lasted me forever. I do not glue the two pieces together because it makes it a lot harder to carve/sand the foam. Instead i use toothpicks cut in half and sanded to a point to temporarily hold the pieces together until i can great-stuff it all together and sand and carve it. It will all be in my step by step video tutorial, along with how i make my fake rocks.


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## davecalk

ryan10517 said:


> Dave, i can't thank you enough for the help you have given me with these builds! I see what you mean by making the vee deeper and more dramatic. The vines were an after-the-fact thing i kinda thought up, so they are kinda out of place haha.


No Ryan they are not out of place. Your instincts are good. The vines are an excellent addition to a piece like this. They are seen all over in nature.











I have been experimenting for many years building artificial vines and putting them in tanks. 

I use Cotton Rope which is what I think you used. It is really cheap and can be purchased in various sizes from most fabric stores and in some craft stores. 











I also have found a mop head is cheap and has lots of vine stock.










Dryloc should work well, but I personally have used an acrylic concrete bonding agent.











The following was one of my vines.

Tint the mix, soak the vine.








This mix wasn't tinted dark enough and I had to redo it with a darker mix.
Actually I think that I teased, unwound and created all of the roots / branches / etc. before I soaked the vines.


Teased and unwound rope into smaller roots. 



















Carved and teased bowls. 








I copied this from a vine I saw someware.


I tried sun drying it but it took too long so I ended up drying it in the oven.









I think that I also coated the exterior with colored foam that I made. I journal about making colored foam here. Detailed-journal-colored-foam / Tank-rear-access / Making artificial-vines-stumps




This vine has been in this tank for many years with no signs of deterioration.











> What do you think about the color and texture of it? does it look natural to you?? I did not use the wash technique on this build because on the last one the straight acrylic gave it a shimmery glossy kind of finish that i thought looked unattractive. Everything on this one is small portions of drylok mixed with acrylic to give me the color i want. Mostly all drybrushed on. Took me longer to shade and color, but i think the overall look is much nicer.


The carved texture of the piece is excellent.

Color is good. Could have a little more mottling of other colors mixed in. The green moss color is good, but if you want the most natural, sprinkle chopped moss or artificial moss as an applied surface texture. Read on down in the following tutorial and see what I am talking about with the photos and description. 
Tree stump Journal / Paint / Texture

This journal follows Brent Brock's excellent stump tutorial which I helped with many years ago.

.


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## ryan10517

i can't see the pictures  but thanks dave. I think i'll try that model train moss stuff for my next build. It looks real nice!

I forgot to mention that the vines are made from an old shoelace i found and some nylon string. I wish i would have used something different because if you look close you can see the unnatural texture of the string underneath the drylok. Maybe something more squishy like yarn would produce a better result?

Get those links fixed so i can see your vines!


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## davecalk

Well we'll try to re-post this again.

No Ryan they are not out of place. Your instincts are good. The vines are an excellent addition to a piece like this. They are seen all over in nature.










I have been experimenting for many years building artificial vines and putting them in tanks. 

I use Cotton Rope which is what I think you used. It is really cheap and can be purchased in various sizes from most fabric stores and in some craft stores. 










I also have found a mop head is cheap and has lots of vine stock.










Dryloc should work well, but I personally have used an acrylic concrete bonding agent.











The following was one of my vines.

Tint the mix, soak the vine.








This mix wasn't tinted dark enough and I had to redo it with a darker mix.
Actually I think that I teased, unwound and created all of the roots / branches / etc. before I soaked the vines.


Teased and unwound rope into smaller roots.



















Carved and teased bowls. 








I copied this from a vine I saw somewhere.


I tried sun drying it but it took too long so I ended up drying it in the oven.









I think that I also coated the exterior with colored foam that I made. This gave the vine some additional texture bark like texture and gave it some additional waterproofing. I journal about making colored foam here. Detailed-journal-colored-foam / Tank-rear-access / Making artificial-vines-stumps




The vine has been in this tank for many years and shows no signs of deterioration with daily fogging and misting.










The carved texture of the piece is excellent.

Color is good. Could have a little more mottling of other colors mixed in. The green moss color is good, but if you want the most natural, sprinkle chopped moss or artificial moss as an applied surface texture. Read on down in the following tutorial and see what I am talking about with the photos and description. 
Tree stump Journal / Paint / Texture

This journal follows Brent Brock's excellent stump tutorial which I helped with many years ago.


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## sarahatl

Ryan: Still not sure the thickness of the styrofoam you use. Did it come in a block? Most places like Lowe's sell it in 4x8 sheets (that are about an inch thick). Not sure how you got that thickness? Did you have any problem with the GS sticking to the styrofoam? I am new too this...thanks for your help.


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## ryan10517

sarahatl said:


> Ryan: Still not sure the thickness of the styrofoam you use. Did it come in a block? Most places like Lowe's sell it in 4x8 sheets (that are about an inch thick). Not sure how you got that thickness? Did you have any problem with the GS sticking to the styrofoam? I am new too this...thanks for your help.


its 2" thick foam. i used 2 layers of it to make the trunk, and i sliced some pieces in half for the buttresses so those are about 1" thick. The GS foam sticks very well to styrofoam. Just make sure you shake it up very well to reduce the big air pockets. those are a pain to fill up


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## ryan10517

and thank you again dave. those are some very nice vines you made there!


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## Submarinr

Nice Pics Dave,

I too, have been capturing broken, decayed stump/root pics from around the area in hopes of finding that "perfect" look..

Trouble is, I don't know if I've got Ryan's artistic touch..
Maybe it would be cheaper to simply ship Ryan around the country and have him do the work for us all ?? ;-)P


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## ryan10517

Submarinr said:


> Nice Pics Dave,
> 
> I too, have been capturing broken, decayed stump/root pics from around the area in hopes of finding that "perfect" look..
> 
> Trouble is, I don't know if I've got Ryan's artistic touch..
> Maybe it would be cheaper to simply ship Ryan around the country and have him do the work for us all ?? ;-)P


sure thing! 60 bucks an hour sound about right?


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## ryan10517

hmm i guess i never linked the video to this thread. ttt! haha


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