# carotenoids for ff media and isopod question



## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

Hi everyone, i always bought my media but im just now making my own. What is something i can easily add to my ff media that will add enough carotenoids? 

Also, will isopods eat soilent green? My tads love it btw
Ty 🙂


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

You will still need to dust the flies with a quality supplement regardless of what is in your fruit fly media. I use repashy calcium plus at every feeding and offer repashy vitamin A once every other week.


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## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

I am aware of that 🙂 i use repashy supplements, i just know that the media's i used to buy had them in it and wanted to add some in my own mix.


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

I've been mixing a few pinches of superpig into my fruit fly cultures when I make them. The maggots are noticeably redder when they come out, and I think its helped with the coloring on my frogs. The reds, yellows and oranges really pop. I use a generous amount since it's not like I'm gonna use up the superpig from just dusting over 6 months before it goes bad anyways.

Before I was just dusting my flies every week with superpig, and I am still doing that, but mixing superpig into the cultures has made a difference. Someone I talked to locally also does this, and their froglets come out really vibrant.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

indrap said:


> I use a generous amount since it's not like I'm gonna use up the superpig from just dusting over 6 months before it goes bad anyways.


Could you quantify "a generous amount"? This sounds to me like something I'd like to try.

I recall Ed posting some documented information on the positive effects of carotenoids for frogs -- I know frogs can't convert any of them to Vit A, but he pointed out some physiological benefits over and above the optimizing of coloration potential.


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

Socratic Monologue said:


> indrap said:
> 
> 
> > I use a generous amount since it's not like I'm gonna use up the superpig from just dusting over 6 months before it goes bad anyways.
> ...


I should be measuring better, still playing around with it but probably 3 or 4 pinches. My last culture I used more than normal and after mixing hot water it smelled something rank which I'm guessing is the superpig.

Maybe start off with a couple pinches first and see what works for you


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## PhylloBro (Sep 21, 2018)

Tincman offers a caratenoid supplement. Not sure the applications for this product but i just stumbled across it by chance. I looked into messing with media but since i do not own a lab i did not continue to bother. lol Figured even if i winged it there was no chance that i would be able to accurately assess the results other than a by eye and with my lack of experience i could shoot myself in the foot. 

Link to the supplement

https://tincman.com/product/tincman-herps-new-naturalrose-carotenoid/


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

I'm not saying there is absolutely no benefit to adding in some pigment enhancer to your FF media, but it is my understanding that whatever the maggots ingest does not pass on to the fly once the pupae hatch. I may be wrong, but that is how I remember it. Maybe someone else with more knowledge can chime in and confirm or refute my comment.


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

varanoid said:


> I'm not saying there is absolutely no benefit to adding in some pigment enhancer to your FF media, but it is my understanding that whatever the maggots ingest does not pass on to the fly once the pupae hatch. I may be wrong, but that is how I remember it. Maybe someone else with more knowledge can chime in and confirm or refute my comment.


I've also heard that, and just looking at the flies that might be true. The flies dont look any different than when they dont have any superpig in the media. However, when I started doing this without changing my superpig dusting routine, I noticed my frogs droppings turn noticeably redder. Everyone I know locally that supplements superpig or paprika into their media produces frogs with colors that always really pop.

And again it's not like I'll ever run out of superpig before it goes bad... so unless its hurting my animals I probably wont stop lol


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## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

Wow... never thought of superpig!!!! Duh me!!! Ty ty ty for the suggestion 🙂


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Some of the issues when adding your own carotenoids to their media is that you need to be able to manage your supply of carotenoids so they don't oxidize (rancidity) and become an issue in and of themselves. This is also a cost issue since the amount of sources purchased aren't going to be used up before you have to replace the carotenoids so it drives up the cost of home made recipes if you want to use a variety of carotenoids. Larger suppliers that roll over their stock on a regular basis and follow expiration dates are able to make it more cost efficient than many home users. 

With respect to sequesteration of carotenoids from media in larvae carried over to adults, this really doesn't occur as the majority of the carotenoids are excreted during pupation (see Giovannucci, David R., and Robert S. Stephenson. "Identification and distribution of dietary precursors of the Drosophila visual pigment chromophore: analysis of carotenoids in wild type and ninaD mutants by HPLC." Vision research 39.2 (1999): 219-229.). 

some comments 

Ed


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

PhylloBro said:


> I looked into messing with media but since i do not own a lab i did not continue to bother. lol Figured even if i winged it there was no chance that i would be able to accurately assess the results other than a by eye and with my lack of experience i could shoot myself in the foot.


I did a little casual digging on possible harmful effects of carotenoid overdosing. In humans, the only serious negative effect I could find is an increased risk of cancer in smokers and asbestos workers (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19876916/). 

In birds, increased carotenoid intake was correlated with muscle breakdown (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00114-010-0679-6). The study noted that the effects of very high doses of carotenoids in birds were similar to the effects of removing carotenoids from the birds' diets.

This was very cursory research on my part, but I get the impression that carotenoid supplementation by amateurs doesn't seem to be too risky, unlike altering levels of calcium, Vit D, Vit A.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Ed said:


> Some of the issues when adding your own carotenoids to their media is that you need to be able to manage your supply of carotenoids so they don't oxidize (rancidity) and become an issue in and of themselves. This is also a cost issue since the amount of sources purchased aren't going to be used up before you have to replace the carotenoids so it drives up the cost of home made recipes if you want to use a variety of carotenoids. Larger suppliers that roll over their stock on a regular basis and follow expiration dates are able to make it more cost efficient than many home users.
> 
> With respect to sequesteration of carotenoids from media in larvae carried over to adults, this really doesn't occur as the majority of the carotenoids are excreted during pupation (see Giovannucci, David R., and Robert S. Stephenson. "Identification and distribution of dietary precursors of the Drosophila visual pigment chromophore: analysis of carotenoids in wild type and ninaD mutants by HPLC." Vision research 39.2 (1999): 219-229.).
> 
> ...


Thanks for chiming in Ed. I hoped you would set the record straight at some point regarding this.


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