# whats your fav fly to culture?



## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

hey guys.. just curious because in conversationt his keeps comming up. what FF's are easier/ better to culture. what is your fly of choice.

i culture hydei, mel's, and turckish gliders and i will say this. Hydei are slow to culture but yet is a larger fly so feeding less goes along way and all my frogs like them. but due to how long it takes to culture them i have to make that many more more frequently to keep them going. now the turckish gliders they culture strong fast and in very high numbers and the frogs love to chase them down. but they are escape artist and boy do they get all over the house. which then anoy the crap out of me. the mels culture almost just as fast and almost in just as strong numbers but they dont get lose often and dont put up much of a chase for the frogs and they dont make it out the tanks to often lol. so im going to say the mels are my fav fly to culture considering fast easy and no mess lol.


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

Mix your mels and hydeis into one culture. It will bloom first with the mels and as you start to feed them out, the hydeis will start to replace them. Just put alittle extra media into the culture than usual.


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

mongo77 said:


> Mix your mels and hydeis into one culture. It will bloom first with the mels and as you start to feed them out, the hydeis will start to replace them. Just put alittle extra media into the culture than usual.


lol yeah and the 3rd boom will be a bunch of flyers all over the house.


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## FlyCafe.net (May 17, 2009)

Bottom line - Wingless D. Melanogaster for several reasons:
Fast to reproduce...less time waiting
Reproduce like there is not tomorrow...
Small enough for almost any predator to at minimum hold them over for larger prey.
Wingless over Flightless as they will hang out on the bottom much longer compared to the flightless version.

The only reason I'd ever recommend D. Hydei is if the person needs larger prey which as you said require less to fill the stomach of your pets.
I have come to prefer the Golden Flightless D. Hydei that so many people seem to have problems with due to media that falls short in meeting the Golden's needs. 
Reasons why the Goldens are the best of the larger flies:
They seem to be slightly more active (may just be the strains we carry)
They are larger than D. Melanogaster (the obvious part)
and the main reason is that if you aren't dusting them they are much easier targets for your pets as they simply stand out against the dark backgrounds like moss and leaves.

I hope this gives a little insight to others viewing this thread.


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

DCreptiles said:


> lol yeah and the 3rd boom will be a bunch of flyers all over the house.


The mels and hydeis don't interbreed. I don't get fliers from those cultures. The mels actual help stir up the media and inturn help produce more hydeis.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Mike

I've _NEVER_ had a wingless that produced rapidly or productively. I wish I knew your secret , as I prefer them _but_ then cant come close to glider production for me, and with 60 vivs I need quantity.

I love goldens. Not sure of the secret ingredient for their media though...again, if the secret was out I'd be waiting in line to hear . 

Care to help out ? 

Shawn


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

melanos are definitely easier, but hydei get supplements stick to them better


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I raise wingless melangasters, black hydei, and golden hydei. The melanos are great for fresh OTW froglets, but the goldens (which aren't as big as the black hydei) are a great intermediate step (and help the froglets put on weight). The black hydei are by far the best size for feeding all the large tincs. So it takes a month to get a good bloom of hydei, I just try to plan ahead.

Take care, Richard.


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## Dragonfly (Dec 5, 2007)

I always have melanos cause they can be eaten by all. I like hydei even though they are slower producers because the larva make great food for the frogs as well. I have taken to dusting the larva as well.


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## FlyCafe.net (May 17, 2009)

I've got to agree with woodsman on the black being slightly larger and I really need to get back into macro photography so I can give a visual as we shop several of our competitors each year (got to keep tabs on the comp) and in comparison ours run slightly larger (fatter) then most. I still prefer the Golden for color (easy targets) plus they seem to create conga lines more often then the Black D. Hydeis which if you want to see a frog gain weight, there is nothing like watching them go for one fly and catch 2 or even 3 at a time as they catch the fly in the front of the line and pickup everything in between plus as I mentioned before they seem a bit more active.

For Sports_doc, the key is finding a great quality brewer's yeast and maxing it out in your media recipe. It takes a little trial and error but you will find if you can get the Golden D. Hydei to reproduce consistently generation after generation you will be "Golden" ...sorry for the play on words but it was too tempting.

Another "trick" is to add a small amount of unfiltered beer to your wet solution when mixing your cultures as the active yeast will kick start the culture a few days earlier in reproducing.

Current ingredients used in FlyCafe.net Cultures.
Beyond the common ones - include unfiltered beer, Raw OJ with extra calcium and cultured whey made from milk containing 10 different probiotics. The key to the culture whey is that it helps the flies absorb as many nutrients in the media as possible and according to 2 individuals that I consider a great deal more versed in bugs and reptiles according to their schooling and degrees believe the probiotics are directly responsible for the flies running on the large size when compared to non-probiotic cultures.
And of course running the quality brewer's yeast on the heavy side in the formula doesn't hurt.

As for the Wingless D. Melanogaster I have never had a problem with these guys except not being able to feed them off fast enough which can end up crashing a culture with a ton of dead flies on the bottom of the culture if it wasn't for all the hungry anoles outside of my home that simply love a free handout several times a week.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

Mike,
Thanks for sharing your secrets. That's really bold for someone trying to make money to post their tricks. Do you think using the powder form probiotic capsules would be similar to the milk you use? do you have a favorite beer for your cultures or do you use whatever is on sale? Is IPA better for cultures than stout?

I culture 4 different flies for reasons I've long ago forgotten. I guess I do it for the reasons listed above - gliders for quantity, goldens as tweeners for Mantella froglets outgrowing springs, wingless cause they stay down in the screen topped tanks and hydei for their size.

Of course I, like many other recently, have started playing with more feeders insects. I have termites, dubia roaches and bean beetles. All frogs definitely benefit from variety. But Mantellas (most of my frogs) seem to really need diverse and larger food to breed sucessfully and minimize spindly.


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## FlyCafe.net (May 17, 2009)

I am not too worried about sharing the ingredients we use as it takes just the right amount and just like cooking a dinner you need to have a passion for producing quality. Two chefs making the same meal with the same ingredients and the same tools will never make the exact same tasting meal, you will prefer one over the other.

As for beer, I am not a heavy drinker but I do appreciate a quality beer, so when I buy it I keep in mind that I will probably drink half the 6 pack.
You can easily use almost any Hefeweizen type beer. UFO Hefeweizen is usually easy to find but I prefer Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier (which is a little expensive) as the brewer is known for their quality and is supposedly one of the oldest brewer's in the world. Pretty much any Hefeweizen (pronounced "hay-fuh-veyt-sssenn") will do but I avoid any that have spices, citrus or any other added ingredients beyond the basics.

As for the probiotics, I can see the benefit of the capsules but keep in mind that live versus dormant is always a better deal. Plus the larger the variety the better the absorption and overall health of the flies which we know carry over to the predator that eats them.

As for variety I more than understand as the only reason I specialize in Fruit Flies is after breeding Viper Geckos and Panther Chameleons among others at one time. I can seriously appreciate the roaches as my Chameleons loved them as a treat from Crickets, mealworms, superworms and waxworms to name the staples. I also found that Chameleons had such diverse personalities that each one actually had a "Favorite" food type. I have yet to notice that with Dart Frogs but they are a lot less demanding too.


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

wow i just want to say that i truely appriciate everyones input and im pleased with the responses on the thread from some good names in the trade. and im glad mike was able to chime in and share some tips. i perfer the wingless over flightless also im having a problem right now with flys getting loose from a few vivs since i surran wrap all my lids i get tiny holes from moving lights and taking them on and off so the flys are escaping a bit and i also think i over feed because i have a thing with seeing my frogs nice and chubby. i feel that im going to back off the gliders and stick with the wingless mels and the black hydei because they are both solid food sources. between the rapid mel production and the black hydei size i got all my frogs covered from vents to azureus. even my vents love hydei and i dont have to feed much.
-Derek


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

We have exo's and they escape regularly. It doesn't really bother us. We put some salt shakers with some wine and a couple of drops of dishsoap in them. As soon as they get out of the viv they go straight for them and drown. A little off topic but We thought it might help someone out.


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## FlyCafe.net (May 17, 2009)

Escaping flies...
First the wingless D. Melanogater = we all agree they prefer hanging out on the bottom.
Golden Flightless D. Hydei - Although these guys will not always hang out on the bottom they do seem to explore and/or hang out in an area compared to the more common Black Flightless D. Hydei which always work their way to the top.

Another bit of help as I have never tried the surran wrap (not even sure how to spell it - but may be trying it soon) and like to rotate different types of flies all the time with the exception of the Flightless D. Melanogaster as they seem to take the autobahn highway to the top of the lid and escape very quickly is to use a catch all for escapees.

Simple trap for anyone who isn't using something already -
Take a water bottle and cut the top off right at the part where it flares out.
Cut the bottom at about 3" up from the base. Now flip the top upside down and place it inside the bottom of the bottle and wrap tape around the top edge to seal. This should give you a clearance between what use to be the very top opening and the very bottom of about 1/2 inch. Fill with Vinegar just a few millimeters from the "what use to be the top" (the part you drank out of). Basically you now have a funnel setting on top of a tiny tub with vinegar in the bottom. Place these close to your terrarium and fly cultures to catch both escapees and wild flying bugs that may get into you home.
Here is a good example although I don't leave as much of a gap from the bottom and the opening as I don't want to waste the vinegar which you will need to replace about once a week. And yes, you can hide these behind your terrarium.


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

mongo77 said:


> Mix your mels and hydeis into one culture. It will bloom first with the mels and as you start to feed them out, the hydeis will start to replace them. Just put alittle extra media into the culture than usual.



If you decide to mix flies, don't mix wingless fruit flies and flightless fruit flies, like the gliders. Some types of flies you can mix, but some you can't. It all depends on what the genetic trait. Some flies are bred with a genetic defective flight muscle and some have the genetic defect where their wings don't develop. Mix the two and you can end up with fliers. I did that once and when I opened the culture I was met with a cloud of flies invading the kitchen. Wasn't pretty. Only made that mistake only once.

Dave


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

hey mike the water bottle thing is a cool idea just a bit of a eye sore i really need to get my self a frog room when we move to a bigger place. but i do have these small glass jars that i put a splash of vinager in and place them on the floor behinde my rack and i have vivs on each side of my couch in the corners of the room so i have a jar behinde the couch next to the vivs ect so it can be out of site. so far no1 has noticed so it seems to work.

and Dave i know what you mean just from feeding different flys into the viv i sometimes open the viv and get some fliers. useually 2 or 3. i never mix in the same culture when there isnt a need to. i have enough containners for both.


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