# New project. 5.5g nano viv



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

I have plans for a 5.5g nano viv just after christmas, or sooner if i get a job at petland.

Bear with me, and Sorry if I sound like a noob or ask to many questions, I just want to get some practice before I jump into a large wet terrarium. I already have a 90g paludarium but it stays pretty dry in there because its for anoles. I would also like to try some new techniques and I think this a good place to learn.

Anyway, I don't want to have animals in it and it would be just for decoration and plants.

I'm pretty new to making vivariums and would like some input so I'll just explain what I have thought out so far.

*Tank...*

5.5g

*Basic Equipment...*

A two piece glass top to hold in humidity with a series of holes in the back to allow circulation.

A custom hood with a 25w cfl.

*The scape:*

Background: Slate tile on 3 sides with the 2 back corners the bottom all the way around covered in some kind of foam. (looking for experinced information about handi-foam and greatstuff and the pros and cons. Things like do I need to precoat the glass, do i coat it in silicone after, what do I put on it to make it look more natural?). I would incorporate some planters and some maylasian driftwood as well for mounting points for broms. Then all 3 outside sides would be taped off and the front edges of visible foam and subsrate would be painted so it could not be seen from the outside of the tank.

There would be a false bottom made from eggcrate and covered in screen for a very small resivoir.

*Substrate:*

Probably just some black eco-complete. Looking for suggestions here too as I have only ever planted in coir.

*Plants:*

Definetly looking for suggestions here. 

Was thinking some broms, hc for a carpet, and some anubis nana petite.

*Possible water feature...*

This is why I planned the small resivoir. I was thinking in one of the corners I could shape a kind of waterfall that fell into a peagravel area. Something of a pool-less waterfall.

On the water fall I could plant some java ferns as that is how they grow in nature anyways. 

However I have no experience with a powerhead or anything like that.

Would it be possible to drill the rear of the tank into the resivoir and hook up some kind of external pump to pump the water up to the waterfall. The return could come from the top as it would be imbedded in the great stuff. 


I would really like some help with this project, all of you help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Really, 33 views and nobody has any suggestions?


----------



## jdart16 (Jun 5, 2008)

I would suggest that in that small of a setup and water feature relly dosn't seem feasable.

It would most likely end in the whole viv becoming a soupy mess with not enough airflow and lots of rot.

Just my two cent though sounds like it could turn out to be a neat project.

Justin


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

I think that I will still try the water feature, worst case scenario I will just unplug the pump and use the resivoir line to drain the excess water off.

If I were to do this what would be a good pump for this type of application?


----------



## jdart16 (Jun 5, 2008)

A lot of people seem to use these with good results

Zoo Med 501 Turtle Canister Filter at Big Al's Online

Justin


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks, I'll check into that.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Any other ideas on a pump? I don't need a filter just a pump.


----------



## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

why not filter?if you need a external pump you should just go with a filtered setup.i would do a (tiny) pool made of greatstuff foam and silicone it good .then still use some leca under the substrate.just follow any foam viv thread just on a small scale.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

The greatstuff pool was what i was thinking.

I think that a filter would be nice but I don't need all the carbon and stuff that that turtle tank offers. Is there any others you can think of?


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

I really would not waste the time or money on a pump for that small of a tank, even in a 10 gallon a water feature is pushing it I think. I don't do them in anything smaller than a 20 gallon, it just looks off balanced.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Could I atleast do a drip wall?

What kind of broms stay small?


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

You certainly could do it, but I just dont see the point. Are you planning on putting frogs in it? There is a brom called "midget" that is pretty small.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

My point is to just learn the different techniques and ways to build a succesfull vivarium

It will be no animals at all.

It will go in my room above my tv just to look at and grow plants.


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

If the purpose is just for learning purposes I suggest starting with a 10 gallon. With a 5 gallon you can't really do much and I think you would learn a lot more by practicing with something that could realistically house frogs.


----------



## snackpack (Nov 11, 2008)

As someone stated earlier, a water feature will most likely cause the substrate to become a soup. I know you stated that it would be easy to simply drain the water with the line from the pump, but from my expereience, once it becomes soupy for even two or three days, mold begins to grow. 

Once it settles in, draining the water will not solve the problem. You may end up having to rip the substrate out like I did. Also, even after rinsing the moss for any mold, it started to come back after only a week or so.

Just an fyi. If you really wanted a water feature or even a decent learning experience, use a 10 gallon tank, either vertical or horizontal. It's not only cheaper to get a 10g than a 5.5, but its also more practical, since I can't really see keeping a dart frog in a 5.5g let alone a couple.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

right on snackpack


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

As already stated, I don't currently have room for a 10g vertical or not and I stated that it would not have any animals 2 times. But alas, I will just make my tank without the water feature and call it good.

Mainly I was just going to try my hand at foam backgrounds, false bottoms, and growing a few bromeliads. This seems like its getting nowhere though.

If I even care to dredge this post up when I get it done I will post a picture of it.


----------



## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

hummm.... ive got a small exoterra cube 12" that has a water feature and the substrate never has turned to soup. i drilled the back and bottom of the tank and made barriers between the water section and the substrate. this has been running for a year or so now and has never molded or anything. the plants growing in it are jewel orchids, various mosses, a couple broms, various tillandsia, Peperomia prostrata(i think) and a type of fern. oh and everything is growing very well. so i say go for it and if a water feature is what you want then build it because you want it. just be carefull how you design it cause like others said once a problem starts its a pain in the A#$ to fix.


----------



## snackpack (Nov 11, 2008)

Link3898 said:


> hummm.... ive got a small exoterra cube 12" that has a water feature and the substrate never has turned to soup. i drilled the back and bottom of the tank and made barriers between the water section and the substrate. this has been running for a year or so now and has never molded or anything. the plants growing in it are jewel orchids, various mosses, a couple broms, various tillandsia, Peperomia prostrata(i think) and a type of fern. oh and everything is growing very well. so i say go for it and if a water feature is what you want then build it because you want it. just be carefull how you design it cause like others said once a problem starts its a pain in the A#$ to fix.


Exactly what you said. You had it drilled. Most 5.5 picos are aquarium use so, the glass is tempered, making drilling very difficult (ive never successfully drilled tempered glass, but not really my area of expertise) Also, since it was drilled for drainage, the soup becomes a lesser issue since regular maintenance of the water is feasable. Also, with a 12" cube, the dimensions make it so that its easier to have water, since you have lots more depth to play with. 

Granted, a 5.5gallon with 16"x8"x9" as its dimensions isnt completely impossible, but as a generality, it will be hard to have a functional water feature in such a small area. even a 10 gallon with a water feature takes up so much space that the frogs will have very little room to move about. 

Yes, I know that you have stated that no frogs will be held in your 5.5. But if you are like me, or many others on the board, you might be enticed to house some frogs somewhere down the line.

Again, if you really want to and this is strictly for learning, by all means go ahead. But it seems to me that if you want to gain experience, nothing beats learning from the real deal. (10g) That way you can reuse all your measurements etc.

Have fun. Just remember to get a bigger tank for a viv with actual frogs.


----------



## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

i have 4 2.5gal's that i use for thumbnail grow outs that have been set up for a little while, i like little vivs they look cool. here are a few pics. nothing special just 2.5 verts.
































and one for size comparison


----------



## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

snackpack said:


> Exactly what you said. You had it drilled. Most 5.5 picos are aquarium use so, the glass is tempered, making drilling very difficult (ive never successfully drilled tempered glass, but not really my area of expertise) Also, since it was drilled for drainage, the soup becomes a lesser issue since regular maintenance of the water is feasable. Also, with a 12" cube, the dimensions make it so that its easier to have water, since you have lots more depth to play with.
> 
> Granted, a 5.5gallon with 16"x8"x9" as its dimensions isnt completely impossible, but as a generality, it will be hard to have a functional water feature in such a small area. even a 10 gallon with a water feature takes up so much space that the frogs will have very little room to move about.
> 
> ...


yeah what he said lol 


i have never had a problem drilling the small tanks, so i wonder if the tanks ive drilled were really old. i also thought the tempered glass was only used on the bottom of large tanks and the reason the small tanks crack is the glass is so thin its like walking on rice paper without tearing it. but yeah didnt know the small tanks are tempered... good to know before i blow out the side of a new tank


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks for the support link3898,

I openly welcome advice but I just thought you were being a bit hypercritical of the water feauture. I didn't want my post to sound to dry by delving into the details of my plan as it might be a bit hard to articulate. 

I'll spell it all out here though.

First off, I have no plans of a frog in this tank, It is far to small for any amphibian by my standards. Also, I don't have any room at all at this point for anything larger than a 5.5g. Within the year though I may have more room at which point I would like to go with a 20 long and get a terrestrial species of dart to start out with.

*The tank itself..*

It will be a 5.5g standard tank.

I will have a small hole to fit a 1/4 ID vinyl tube drilled in the back bottom to remove water from my false bottom. Coupled with a pump and the water feature it will help prevent stagnentation.

The false bottom will be made by making some small 3/4" tall spacers out of 3/4" ID Pvc.

On top of this will go a sheet of 1/8" Plexi with small holes drilled throught to allow the substrate to drain. 

*For hardscape*

The sides and back of the tank will have slate siliconed to the back and then the gaps will be grouted.

Then the back corners and the area where the tank and plexi meet at the back will have great foam or another type of expanding foam sprayed onto them. In one corner a small pool will be added with a drip wall on that corner. The foam will also serve to hide the return hose from the pump. The water will drain through this into the false bottom via a hole drilled in the plexi and covered from the bottom with screen to prevent detritus or anything else from falling into the false bottom.

The foam will also incorporate a few small planters and pieces of malaysian driftwood.

The foam will then be siliconed with black ge I silicone and coated in a mixture of coir, sand, and slate chips. 

*Substrate...*

Eco complete black.

*Lighting...*

25w cfl

*Plants..*

I may try my hand at some Hc for a ground cover. 

I would then also like to try growing some epiphytic plants but I am not well versed in there charachteristics and hopefully this will help me break into that area.



Still looking for help with finding some smaller epiphytic plants.

As for drilling the tanks, the local glass shop should be able to take care of that and it is also my understanding that only tanks over 55g have a tempered bottom and hardly any under 200g have tempered sides. Also when I have broke some smaller tanks on accident none of them have broken into the stereotypical small chunks of tempered glass. If it does though its only a $10 tank.

Another problem with drilling tanks is to remember that you sand holes in glass not drill them. The bits heat up very fast and need to be cooled alot while they are drilled. Any movement off of the perpendicular axis will most likely result in cracking. Glass also has a tendency to chip out on the back just like wood and thus it is also recommended that you drill the glass with a backer, from the inside to the outside so that any seals you use on the inside will seal properly and the chips won't be a problem.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Oops, I forgot to ask.

Since this tank is only for plants, will I need something to read humidity or can I just be approximate?


----------



## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

> I openly welcome advice but I just thought you were being a bit hypercritical of the water feauture.


 whoops... im sorry 


on the note of a hydrometer i have never really used one successfully. i dont know if it has anything to do with cheap quality or if i placed it in the wrong area of the tank so i have no idea.. i gave up and dont use them at all and that works fine for me


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Link3898 said:


> whoops... im sorry


Don't worry that statement wasn't directed towards you. Sorry for the confusion.

What do you think about the afore mentioned plan? Sound feasible?


----------



## snackpack (Nov 11, 2008)

sorry. didnt want to sound critical, but I assumed that you were up for some constructive criticism since you did post it here. (oohing and ahhing is nice, but improvement on ideas isnt a bad thing, right?)

If my suggestions made you feel like i was belittling you, my bad, but im just speaking from the experience I had with some smaller tanks with water features.

Anyway, do what you want, but please dont take it like I'm out to get you. Just trying to help. Good luck with your endeavor 

oh and for the humidity reader question. You should be fine without a reader as long as there is decent humidity aka "dew" on the glass.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

I didn't really meen that you were belittling me. Anyway lets not dwell on the subject, and yes criticism is fine and I take note of it and then revise my plan accordingly. Infact thanks for the criticism.

That's good news on the humidity reader, I don't want to spend any money on one....yet.

Now then, what would be some suitable plants for this tank?


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

for broms- midget, i wouldn't try more than one or two, maybe a cryptsanthia (sp?)
mosses- spahgnum, ricca(not technically a moss), spike, kypto if you get good lights
other- creeping fig can stay small, but you have to clip it back VERY frequently to maintain it's shape. maybe some epip. ferns or smaller mounted orchids (make sure they can take the humidity). and for slow growing creepers, hoya curtsil will stay managable.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks, I'll check those all out.

I really like ferns. Would resurection ferns be a good choice?

Where would you suggest buying those broms?

And can you get riccia to grow on the back wall?


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Resurection ferns would probably work, but they can take over so you would have to watch it. They can also be some what finicky, I have kept them in a few tanks and they seem to either take off immediatly and do really well or just sit there and not do much- ever. 

Michaels Bromeliads has every single brom you could imagine. I can't remember any other places to buy midgets, you should check the sponser page though. 

Ricca can grow just about anywhere, you shouldn't propogate it on the background to begin with, but it you put it on the ground and the background is wet it will eventually spread all over the tank.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

So, the riccia would do well in say a shallow 1/2"-1" deep bowl of water that kept the background around it wet. Thats what I was thinking but I have heard that Riccia is finicky.

I will definetly look at that site. Thanks for the help!!!


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

As long as there is water and light the ricca should do great. I have used it in a bunch of tanks and it has taken off in all of them. http://brainstropicals.com is the only place I know of that is carrying it currently.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

I will probably try and get it from a member of Aquaria central or the planted tank. 

So I wonder if I could grow riccia in my paludarium as well. I guess I'll have to try.


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

It should, it can grow completely aquatically but also on land if there's enough moisture.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

I've looked around at all of the places I know to get bromeliads and I have yet to find the Midget Variety. 

Are they always so expensive?


----------



## AlexD (Sep 19, 2007)

I rarely pay less than $12-15 for a brom, but I have expensive taste.


----------



## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

whats expensive?

i got 3 of them from Black jungle. i just bought a bunch of what they call assorted brom pups, and they choose which ones to send you. both times i ordered those i got some minature broms. so i guess you could call them and ask if you could specificly order those type. they sell them for i think $5-6?


----------



## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

Spring Valley Tropicals


----------



## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

lol hahaha..... right... forgot about that 

(i was lookin at that site lastnight for neo. broms for the new tank. oops)


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Speaking of black jungle, I just ordered some plants for my other 2 tanks that I already have set up.

I ordered.

Humata tyermanii "white rabbits foot" fern

Ficus pumila var quercifolia "oak leaf creeping fig"

Selaginella Kraussiana Aurea

Tillandsia argentea. 

The only plant I'm not completley sure about its habits is the Tillandsia. How big can I expect this to get? and how can I attach it to a piece of wood?


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Those are all really great viv plants, the rabbits foot fern you will have to trim back, but it should stay managable. The tillandsia will stay small enough, but they really need good air flow, and will rot if your tank is too moist. To mount it to a background tie a piece of fishingwire around the base and attach it to the background with some sort of toothpick or chicken skewer. Since you don't have frogs in there you can be a little more creative. Hot glue is supposed to work as well, but I have not tried it myself. 

The Selaginella should grow to the background, so you may not need any other background plants, especially if you use creeping fig. That stuff can take over an entire tank in a matter of months.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

These will be going in a 20g and a 90g. I am currently working on upping the airflow through these tanks anyhow. 

Right now I have 3 anoles in the 90g and a whites in the 20g.

The 20 will recieve the selaginella, white rabbits foot and creeping fig.

Then the to ttillandsi that I bought will be attached to the back wall of the 90g, and I may take a small cutting from my creeping fig to put in there as well.

All of my tanks have the same slate and grout background, it absorbs water quite well and helps to himidify the tank. I think they will get lots of good moisture that way and it will also provide a porus material for them to cling to.

Thanks agian for the help.

I'm going to call black jungle in the morning though as I forgot to put the fall discount coupon on my order, I am going to see if they will still honor it though.

Tommorow I should also find out if I got my job at petland.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Wow, I really like blackjungle!!!!

I forgot to put in my coupon code and I just called them to see if they would still give me the discount, and they did!!!

So far they get an A+


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

Well, for a pump for the background I decided to go with a micro jet pump and since its a cheapy I'm going to put it in a very accesible location. Probably make a false bottom in the pool that I can easily access.


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Microjets are really great little pumps, even the small one can pump a ton of water up more than a foot high. I would definetily put it on the lowest setting and test it before you put anything else in, just to make sure the water velocity is what you want it to be.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

I will definetly check it out before I do anything with it. I like that it can pump in only 1/2" of water. This way I won't have to make my false bottom too tall.


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

I would make sure the pump works in the water that shallow before installing a false bottom or cutting the pvc. I know they work in shallow water, but I'm not sure it's 1/2 inch. I have that pump I think and it requires more like 1-1.5 inches. Still not a lot, but worth your time to test it first.


----------



## Darkness9876 (Nov 11, 2008)

I will definetly test it out first, I don't know how many times I've read about people building pumps into things and then a month later they crap out or they never worked in the first place.


----------



## Cton9187 (Sep 3, 2008)

otis07 said:


> I have that pump I think and it requires more like 1-1.5 inches. Still not a lot, but worth your time to test it first.


same in my experience


----------



## snackpack (Nov 11, 2008)

Oh. Nice progress. 

Yeah, black jungle is always a pleasure to purchase from. I used those micro jet things before. They work pretty well for what you need, but make sure that there is always enough water. Like you said, 1/2 in is just enough to suck up water, but the instant it falls under that, you can hear the slurpping/sucking noise. That's never good as the motor will burn out quick.

The idea of using a 2.5 for a thumbnail growout is great though (if you decide to pursue it) otherwise even without pdfs, a nice little viv always looks nice. Just seed it with springtails and dump the froglets in there to grow!!

Lets see some pics. I readying build threads, just too take and post pics of mine..


----------

