# Building a terrarium from the ground up? Advice?!



## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

Hi everyone! I want to build a terrarium from scratch completely for some new pals. What's the best materials to use?
I've never built one before but I would like to try doing an 18x18x18 cube with a hinged top of some kind. I want to do plexiglass cause its lighter and doesn't fracture as easily but glass is so much cheaper D: (especially for me since I work at a hobby shop). Do you need any special materials for the bottom or creases other than calking? 
What are your preferred plants to use? I just started my current living terrarium and guessed at tropical and semi aquatic plants from home depo. Since then I have done some reading on the correct plants to use . any tips, tricks, ideas, and preferences welcome!
I hope I can do this! 

Thanks everyone!
Lexi


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/32289-constructing-euopean-type-vivarium-step-step.html

Search function is a useful tool.

Glass Box Tropicals can hook you up with plant packages. He is in the sponsor list.


----------



## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

Thank you for the link. I've had an account here for two days I was unaware there was even a sponsors page.


----------



## Fantastica (May 5, 2013)

As far as plexiglass goes, that'll bend with the humidity, so your only real option is glass.


----------



## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Acrylic should work too.


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Actually, With plexiglass, it is all in the design as to whether or not it warps. I have used acrylic for years with no issues. 
Using plastic weld glue on all seams makes it alot stronger. The best design is plexiglass with a glass door.


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Plexiglass is acrylic


----------



## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Fantastica said:


> As far as plexiglass goes, that'll bend with the humidity, so your only real option is glass.


While I've read on the forums that this happens, I'm still confused by this. Don't they make plexiglass/acrylic aquariums? How come those don't bend/warp?


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I just recently made an acrylic tank. Unless your getting thicker acrylic or get it professionally cut and edged down I recommend glass. There shouldn't be much concern of it breaking. Glass is cheaper, easier to work with, and easier to get. Not many places carry the acrylic welding material (weld-on). I'm in the Chicago area and can only find one place that has it. It's expensive too.

Edit: you should note that you can't get it shipped easily either because it is a toxic chemical and can't go standard mail. It's a $30+ ship easily.


----------



## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

So it sounds like glass is a safe and easy bet for a first timer. The lady at home depo said the plexiglass probably won't warp but I should be more worried about it fogging and getting milky?


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Pacblu202 said:


> I just recently made an acrylic tank. Unless your getting thicker acrylic or get it professionally cut and edged down I recommend glass. There shouldn't be much concern of it breaking. Glass is cheaper, easier to work with, and easier to get. Not many places carry the acrylic welding material (weld-on). I'm in the Chicago area and can only find one place that has it. It's expensive too.
> 
> Edit: you should note that you can't get it shipped easily either because it is a toxic chemical and can't go standard mail. It's a $30+ ship easily.


Where did you get that info?
I live 3 hours south of Chicago, and I order Weld on acrylic cement on line from E Plastics. It ships UPS Ground for about $8. 
Oh, I cut 1/4" acrylic on the table saw and no issues.


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Scott Richardson said:


> Where did you get that info?
> I live 3 hours south of Chicago, and I order Weld on acrylic cement on line from E Plastics. It ships UPS Ground for about $8.
> Oh, I cut 1/4" acrylic on the table saw and no issues.


Really?!? I read it somewhere that you can't ship the lighter weld-on(4?) cheap. Maybe things changed. Did you have to do anything to the sides after you cut it?


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

hypostatic said:


> While I've read on the forums that this happens, I'm still confused by this. Don't they make plexiglass/acrylic aquariums? How come those don't bend/warp?


How many of the people saying it have actual experience using acrylic?

As to why. Simple. Weld-on actually fuses the pcs into one solid pc. where a) silicone is flexible, b) silicone does not truly bond to plexiglass. c) Fish tanks are properly vented.


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Pacblu202 said:


> Really?!? I read it somewhere that you can't ship the lighter weld-on(4?) cheap. Maybe things changed. Did you have to do anything to the sides after you cut it?


Have to? No. Just make sure fence is square and use crosscut blade just higher than top of sheet so it doesn't bounce. 

Now did I? Yes. I flame poslished the edges with a propane torch to make them clear and remove white saw marks. 

Flammable materials can't ship air. Only by truck. So ground is only option


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Scott Richardson said:


> Have to? No. Just make sure fence is square and use crosscut blade just higher than top of sheet so it doesn't bounce.
> 
> Now did I? Yes. I flame poslished the edges with a propane torch to make them clear and remove white saw marks.
> 
> Flammable materials can't ship air. Only by truck. So ground is only option


It's definitely easier to work with glass unless you have a decent set of tools to work with in my experiences.

Maybe i read the air part and was mistaken.


----------



## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Acrylic can warp and bow, but the thing is if you make it yourself you make it thick enough to avoid that, plus all the seams coming from different directions support it on multiple angles. The problem in the dart community I think, is that some people would buy very cheap thin acrylic and put it on the top of there tanks, probably not support or glue it down. If it bowed just a bit it could be enough for tiny frogs to slip out and the person would be mad. I bet the heat from lights didn't help either, in fact sometimes I wonder if the heat from lights was not the real problem. But tons of aquariums are made from acrylic and some of it looks quite thin and cheap to me so it must work.


----------



## asunderco (Apr 4, 2011)

I recommend the search tool. Read read read read. I've been a lurker since 2008. I have multiple vivs and I am still learning. Use the search function. And dig. Welcome to the boards.


----------



## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Scott Richardson said:


> How many of the people saying it have actual experience using acrylic?
> 
> As to why. Simple. Weld-on actually fuses the pcs into one solid pc. where a) silicone is flexible, b) silicone does not truly bond to plexiglass. c) Fish tanks are properly vented.


Oh so in the cases where the plexiglass warps in vivs it's because they used silicone instead of Weld-on? What does ventilation have to do with fish tanks not warping? Shouldn't the water make the sides warp? Or is it the heat from lamps that makes the tops of plexiglass vivs warp?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm not arguing against you or anything; I'm just trying to understand what's happening and how to avoid it.


----------



## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

hypostatic said:


> Oh so in the cases where the plexiglass warps in vivs it's because they used silicone instead of Weld-on? What does ventilation have to do with fish tanks not warping? Shouldn't the water make the sides warp? Or is it the heat from lamps that makes the tops of plexiglass vivs warp?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. I'm not arguing against you or anything; I'm just trying to understand what's happening and how to avoid it.


Silcone will NOT adhere to acrylic. You can rub it off when it's dry. As for warping, humidity and high heat will warp acrylic. Using Weldon will help it not warp but won't entirely cause it to not warp. You need a good thickness of acrylic too. The thicker you have the less chance for warping.


----------



## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

Where the acrylic is supported is extremely important as well. If all the sides are fused together, it is much less likely to warp. 
From my understanding, warping happens when heat and humidity combine on the acrylic. Since acrylic has this tendency, unsupported acrylic pieces like tops and doors are much more prone to warping.


----------



## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

The bottom line is that glass is much easier to build a vivarium out of and is much cheaper. The only thing that acrylic has over glass is that it's easier to drill.

The pros of glass:
Will not scratch as easily
Cheap
Won't warp
Easy to construct

The pros of acrylic:
Easier to drill
More seamless design options


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

When going big, acrylic is MUCH lighter too.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Scott Richardson said:


> How many of the people saying it have actual experience using acrylic?
> 
> As to why. Simple. Weld-on actually fuses the pcs into one solid pc. where a) silicone is flexible, b) silicone does not truly bond to plexiglass. c) Fish tanks are properly vented.


Me. I am a professional glazier for over 20 years. (a glazier works with glass windows) I also spent several years building high end acrylic filtration systems for the reef aquarium hobby.
In this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/95307-acrylic-door-vert-tank.html I explain why acrylic is known to warp in some cases and not in others. I didn't make this information up, or jump to this conclusion. Go to the source and talk to your acrylic manufacturers. They know the properties of their materials and are well aware that acrylic sheets warp when exposed to humid conditions on one side and dry on the other.
Yes, thicker acrylic will make a difference in warping, but it MAY not be enough. I have seen 1/4" and even 3/8" "flat" acrylic from on top of fish tanks that was very badly warped. Yes, cell cast acrylic is higher quality, and will warp LESS than extruded acrylic. A cell cast, flat door, could still warp when exposed to moisture on one side, and not on the other.

Scott, you are absolutely right, it is possible to build an acrylic viv without warpage. I'm glad you pointed out that a glass door is important to have on an acrylic viv. The door is flat. It has no reinforcement and it will warp in the conditions that we froggers use them.
I'm still going to say something when people push acrylic tanks because the danger is very real. Most of the time, when these threads spring up, the person asking the question has NO EXPERIENCE BUILDING TANKS. They don't know how easy it is to screw up an acrylic viv. I like to stress these hazards for new viv builders. 
Scott is also right about how acrylic bonds. Fresh silicone will NOT stick properly to acrylic...ever. To those who claim they have done it, it simply hasn't failed...yet. Acrylic is basically chemically softened and melted together.

Vicskimmer posted a list pros and cons for glass and acrylic. I like it but would add this. When you build with acrylic/plexiglas, all cuts must be perfect. If there is a gap, it will leak. There is no "bead" to fill the gaps. When building a vivarium, that won't be completely filled with water, you can get away with a little slop. If your cut line is not perfect, silicone will easily fill in an 1/8" gap.

The other material that always comes up is Lexan. Some use it, some don't. I choose not to. Scott's going to argue this, but Lexan leaches BPA. BPA is a known endocrine disruptor. There are absolutely NO tests showing how much can build up in a closed system when in constant contact with moisture. There are NO tests showing how much BPA it would take to disrupt our frog's endocrine systems. Lexan is a possible danger that can be easily replaced with glass, removing that possible risk. 

My personal choice? I build all of my vivs out of glass. I hate acrylic tanks with a passion. I hate scratches. Show me an unscratched acrylic tank, and I will come back in a week and show you a scratched acrylic tank.


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

Doug,
I'm not arguing the dangers of BPA. I agree with you we don't know. But I am not going to tear down all my vivs based on a study where they fed mice pure BPA to study effects. The FDA, Germany, Japan, New Zealand, and Canada all threw the bullshit flag on the University study and the Yale study and deemed lexan water bottles safe, and not a risk of levels that would cause any issues. 
We eat food that contains trace levels of poisons, pesticides, vehicle exhaust gases, hydrualic oil, etc every day. If feed a high enough dose, these all would cause problems as well. So, I am just not ready to panic. 

Glass is a damn good material for vivs. The best in alot of situations, BUT
Acrylic has a minimum bend radius of 200 times the thickness cold and is 40 times stronger
Lexan has a minimum bend radius of 100 times the thickness cold and is 250 times stronger.


----------



## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

If I take a 48 x 48 pc of plywood and use my router and trammel to cut a 32" diameter circle out of the plywood and then cut a 30.5" diameter groove in it, I can coat it in pond armor and bend a pc of 1/4 lexan 96" long into a 30.5 " diameter cylinder to fit into the groove. Bond them with 5200 and make a top similar to bottom with the middle removed. Bolt together the seam with clear acrylic nuts and bolts and a 4" wide strip of lexan. 
I now have a custom cylinder that will not warp. You can't do that with glass.


----------



## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

Scott Richardson said:


> When going big, acrylic is MUCH lighter too.


Definitely true, but the number of people building vivariums that would really take that into consideration is very small. It's much more relevant for aquariums.


----------



## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

So I'm putting off my nano tank for now and decided to covert a curio into a stacked vivarium if you guys want to take a look its under my other thread "Our curio conversion"


----------

