# Pond in a Viv... yet soggy substrate?



## scadut (Dec 12, 2013)

First time builder here for dart frogs (though fairly experienced in building for other reptiles, amphibians, and fresh water aquariums). 

I'm wondering how people add in a water portion into their vivarium by making their false bottom floor level drop below the false bottom/water reservoir level without over-saturating their substrate with water?

I am using egg crate lighting panels from the false bottom. If I create 'stream' by making a gap between the egg crates and fill the gap with charcoal/ fluval stratum, would regular flat substrate (not on the stream) be over-saturated with water?

In my head I'm imagining and wanting to design something Justin Grimm's Penninsula video. Everyone has seen it but I'll pos the link. You can see what I mean at 0:17-0:35 seconds


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way that I know of to have a pond area and NOT have the substrate submerged is to have the pond shallower than your drainage layer. You would use material to restrain the substrate and have a section with a shallower drainage layer.
There's another active post on this forum about making a bog enclosure, that has a number of tips/ways to accomplish this.

If you're planning the pond for in a dart frog vivarium, I would recommend skipping the pond, the number of dart frogs that need a water feature is very limited. All the pond is going to do is occupy precious floorspace and bring no benefit to the frogs.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I agree. 
The only way to prevent that, is to have suitable distance between the water source, and any soil. 

A way to accomplish this is this use a thick layer of turface, inbetween the eggcrate & the soil. 

Water is going to wick, and water features tend to create a wetter environment than what is intended. 
You have to be really strategic when building a tank, and it takes meticulous detail to harness it ... and even with careful planning, you may still end up with a wetter tank, bc let’s be honest. It’s water. 
It’s going to go where it wants to. 

He’s also correct when saying that if you want a pond for deposition, it will need to be on a lower “tier” than the soil level. 

I posted some pictures of my tanks for visual aide. One of which uses eggcrate. They give a good cut view of the different layers. 

Notice my water line. 
I never let it get above the drainage layer. 
If it gets close, you have to drain out the water, but there needs to be a space between the water level & the bottom of the drainage layer ... and in the grand scheme of things, It’s maybe .5”-1” deep. That’s it. 
That’s all the tadpoles/frogs need. 

What should also be noted here, is that I do have more ventilation than most people use. 

As far as draining goes ... Some people accomplish this by drilling their tanks for drainage. Others just siphon using gravity, or reverse pressure. 

This is why most people don’t do water features in their tanks, bc of what you’re dealing with now. 



























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## scadut (Dec 12, 2013)

Thank you both on the insights about adding exposed water to a viv. The reason I was considering adding water is if you look at my build progress:

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/355344-first-vivarium-build-design-layout-critiques-welcome.html

there is a lot of open space in the midground, right and left of the center wood piece, that I'm not entirely sure what do do with yet. I just feel like there is a lot of awkward flat ground that I 'm unsure how to fill up the space or if I even need to fill it up... maybe I don't and give some open space? I think now I might ditch the idea of a water portion for the sake of simplicity. Any recommendations on what to do with this space is welcome!

@Gamble, I see in your second tank you actually have egg crate false bottom and what looks to be gravel or crushed clay false bottom as well. Is that correct? I'm wondering how high I should make my egg crate false bottom. I was planning on an inch and a quarter but maybe I should go higher? I'm trying to make the substrate floor rather low compared to where the vent/front sliding doors are.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

scadut said:


> Thank you both on the insights about adding exposed water to a viv. The reason I was considering adding water is if you look at my build progress:
> 
> https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/p...um-build-design-layout-critiques-welcome.html
> 
> there is a lot of open space in the midground, right and left of the center wood piece, that I'm not entirely sure what do do with yet. I just feel like there is a lot of awkward flat ground that I 'm unsure how to fill up the space or if I even need to fill it up... maybe I don't and give some open space? I think now I might ditch the idea of a water portion for the sake of simplicity. Any recommendations on what to do with this space is welcome!



What do you mean? 
That’s what plants & leaf litter are for! Lol

Based on your tank design, a water area would be unnecessary, and unrealistic considering the size of your hardscape. Id forgo that water option. 
That’s just my opinion. 


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Frogs in the wild live in mostly open space covered with leaf litter, and nowhere near standing water. 

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/353880-situ-wild-videos-photos-thread.html


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## scadut (Dec 12, 2013)

Fair enough, I can see what you mean. I guess it's a little harder for me to visualize the final product with flora since this is my first build and unlike what I've built for other reptiles and fish. Do you think and inch and a quarter is enough height for the pvc spacers? would you go any higher?

Thanks for all of this information and recommendations!


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