# What if I don't want to breed my frogs?



## Ahoy_dendromateys (Oct 19, 2020)

Hello everyone

I'm just finishing up my build and will be adding plants and cleanup crew in the next few weeks, with a mind on actually adding frogs probably some time in February. I have a few questions about breeding...what if I don't want to do it?

As these are my first ever dart frogs, I'm not really ready to get into the breeding aspect of keeping frogs. What is the best way (other than only have one sex of frog, which seems next to impossible to ensure) to reduce the likelihood of mating? And when the inevitable happens, what is the best way to remove/dispose of the resulting eggs? Should I even remove the eggs, or does egg-rearing represent a natural behavior that would benefit my frogs behaviorally to be allowed to carry out? If that is the case what do I do with the tadpoles?

My set-up is a 35 gallon hex tank with a GS background, and hydroton drainage layer. I'm planning on housing 3-4 leucs. I haven't actually purchased any plants yet so any recommendations for plants that might aid my goal are also greatly appreciated!

Sorry about all the questions, but there doesn't seem to be much info out there about preventing breeding, at least that I could find. Everyone wants to encourage it!


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## Gastrotheca (Sep 4, 2020)

With the proper conditions, plants that would thrive in this environment, as well as liked and used by many hobbyists, are: 

_Peperomia emarginella 
Selaginella _sp.
Bromeliads
_Ficus pumila
Marcgravia _sp.
_Philodendron _sp.
Pothos varieties
_Anthurium _sp.
_Pilea _sp.

I think it is worth mentioning that leucomelas like densely planted tanks with a lot of leaf litter. I would recommend lots of large-leafed plants and background cover.  

I do not know much about preventing mating in dart frogs tho; I will leave that to the more experienced keepers. 

Good Luck!

Gastrotheca
-----------------------------------
Crested Gecko 0.2.0


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## Ahoy_dendromateys (Oct 19, 2020)

Gastrotheca said:


> With the proper conditions, plants that would thrive in this environment, as well as liked and used by many hobbyists, are:
> 
> _Peperomia emarginella
> Selaginella _sp.
> ...


Thanks for the advice! Definitely planning on some bromeliads, and I like the look of the pothos as well!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

A 35g hex would be a good size for two leucs. More may well not get along, especially in a smaller viv like you're planning. 

With two frogs, the odds of getting a same-sex couple are the same as getting a 1.1 pair -- 50%. Or you could start with, say, four frogs, then keep the first two who call, and you'll have 2 males that won't give you the egg-laying trouble.


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## Ahoy_dendromateys (Oct 19, 2020)

Most of the research I've done seems to indicate that leucs are some of the few darts that will be ok to house more than a pair in a single enclosure. Is that not the case, in your experience? Also, if I wen the route of buying extras, how do I go about removing the others? I assume most breeders don't have a return policy.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

You can search the archives for reports of leucs fighting. There are success stories, and also failure stories. I pay attention to the failures, since that's what I'm trying to avoid.  

I keep a pair (of Fine Spots, which are smaller than other morphs) in a 18 x 18 x 24 (~32 gallons) and I do not think that another frog in there would be beneficial -- two more, and they'd be tripping over each other.

It is easy to physically remove leucs -- you can herd them into a cup. You'd have to rehome them (by placing an ad here, or selling to a local herp shop if you're lucky enough to have one available to you), or set up housing for them.


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## Ahoy_dendromateys (Oct 19, 2020)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I pay attention to the failures, since that's what I'm trying to avoid.


That is some Confucius level wisdom, right there! I like that a lot. It seems I have a bit of thinking to do about my numbers. As for my breeding question, is there any other solution than simply making sure I don't have a breeding pair? I've read that darts often use broms and coco huts for breeding; would not having these limit breeding potential? What about simply removing eggs if I discover any? Would this be an acceptable practice?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I've read of leucs laying happily in leaf litter, so not providing specific laying sites may work, may not. Worth a try.

Removing eggs: this will likely be a contentious discussion. I personally would have no qualms about removing and destroying eggs -- but I scrambled and ate three potential chickens for breakfast this morning, so no big deal for me. 

It is a different question if you find the male transporting a tad that you missed. Hoping others chime in with thoughts on this -- there is an interesting bit of soul-searching in the question.


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## bssknox (Apr 24, 2017)

I for one have to move heaven and earth to get my Fine Spots to breed. If you don't cycle your tank (give a wet and dry season) I would assume that would _lower_ your chances of them breeding as well.


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## HollyB83 (Nov 8, 2020)

Ahoy_dendromateys said:


> That is some Confucius level wisdom, right there! I like that a lot. It seems I have a bit of thinking to do about my numbers. As for my breeding question, is there any other solution than simply making sure I don't have a breeding pair? I've read that darts often use broms and coco huts for breeding; would not having these limit breeding potential? What about simply removing eggs if I discover any? Would this be an acceptable practice?


I agree with Socratic, the discussion of removing/destroying the eggs can be a cause of disagreement amongst people in the hobby. In my opinion, I'm for removing and destroying the eggs. You can always remove the eggs and freeze them to ensure that development does not occur, and then dispose of the eggs after they have frozen. I feel that this is a humane way of disposing of them if you're not trying to raise froglets. Obviously, you need to check for eggs frequently, otherwise you'll have some babies on your hands! Hopefully other people will help you find a solution as there are plenty of people with lots of experience to share


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## Ahoy_dendromateys (Oct 19, 2020)

HollyB83 said:


> I agree with Socratic, the discussion of removing/destroying the eggs can be a cause of disagreement amongst people in the hobby. In my opinion, I'm for removing and destroying the eggs. You can always remove the eggs and freeze them to ensure that development does not occur, and then dispose of the eggs after they have frozen. I feel that this is a humane way of disposing of them if you're not trying to raise froglets. Obviously, you need to check for eggs frequently, otherwise you'll have some babies on your hands! Hopefully other people will help you find a solution as there are plenty of people with lots of experience to share


I was actually thinking about removing any eggs and freezing them before discarding them, so I'm glad that isn't a totally nonsense idea. I think that needing to check regularly for eggs will be good though, as it will force me to inspect the tank perhaps a bit more thoroughly than I might normally. As for tadpoles, that is a bit more complicated. But hopefully as I get more involved in this hobby/community I'll be able to make contacts with people who would be interested in them if the situation arises.

Thanks for the advice!


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

My leucs call and court but do not lay eggs as far as I can tell unless I provide them a good laying location like a coconut half with a upside down lid under it.

I have a group of 4 leucs in a 35g hex. The only issue I have had is maintaining proper air flow in the tank. A little cpu fan on a timer sucking air out keeps an nice balance of humidity, clear glass, and a healthy air flow for the frogs. You may have to play with the air flow to get a tank like that to work well. It's easy to do to do though.


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## dablock (Aug 7, 2007)

If you have male and female frogs, you can't stop them breeding. You can prevent the emergence of froglets though. As mentioned, you can find their favorite laying spots and remove the eggs. I do this before the eggs contain any wigglers so that I don't feel bad about throwing them away. Just scrape the eggs off and flush them down the drain or put them in the freezer if that makes you feel better.

Another thing you can do is to remove any water collection sites such as nut pods or bromeliads with pools of water large enough for tads to be deposited. If there aren't any pools of water, there's no chance of a tad developing into a froglet.

If you have more than one female in your group of leucs, you may also find that the females will eat each other's eggs. You may just find a mass of eggless jelly.


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