# Liverwort Reef



## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Just got a box of some cool worts and gonocormus in. Was originally planning on setting everything up in different enclosures to farm out, but after poking around some old supplies, coming across this rimless cube and realizing that I had a piece of glass that fit the top perfectly (thanks, Bill!), this seemed like a much more fun way to go. 

This is how it's scaped at the moment. Red lava rock, white sand, and a piece of waterlogged manzanita. Gonna sit and think on it for a bit before opting to place any of the worts though.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is my kinda project!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Sweet! This is going to be awesome!

John


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks, guys! 

Boiled a bunch of sphagnum to hopefully stop it from reviving, as I don't want anything overtaking the worts. Blended it with water to make a fine slurry, and am planning to spoon this slurry on the rocks, to give them something a bit more water retentive than the lava to start colonizing. Any thoughts on this plan? Do you folks think it's a good idea, or even necessary?

Here's a couple more shots of the scaping.


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## Jeremy M (Oct 19, 2012)

Neat idea. Do you plan to put a water in the bottom of this tank to raise humidity? I've seen lots of liverworts growing in the wild on clay embankments. Maybe you could try smearing the lava rock with a thin layer of clay for water retention/rooting media instead of the fine sphagnum.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have had issues with clay in the past, so am somewhat reticent to use it in this application. Tested out the blended sphag mix, and it seems to work the way I anticipated. Just put the worts in place, and sealed everything up. Theres a bit of water in the bottom, but not a substantial amount. Will post updates over the coming weeks and months. Nothing happens fast when it comes to these worts IME.


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## Bob1000 (Jan 15, 2014)

Im just confused??!!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

inka4040 said:


> I have had issues with clay in the past, so am somewhat reticent to use it in this application. Tested out the blended sphag mix, and it seems to work the way I anticipated. Just put the worts in place, and sealed everything up. Theres a bit of water in the bottom, but not a substantial amount. Will post updates over the coming weeks and months. Nothing happens fast when it comes to these worts IME.


Nothing happens fast except for you putting them in the tank! I thought you were going to "sit and think on it for a bit" 

I would be careful with the lava rock. If you do not keep the tank wet enough, I can see the rock pulling moisture from the sphagnum base that you put down and drying it out. That shouldn't be a problem if it stays wet, though. This should look really cool when it grows in!

Bob1000: What are you confused on? If your stuck on the "reef" in the title, I think this tank might have been a reef tank previously. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'm right...

John


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

If I understand correctly, do you plan a tank with liverwoort, but no other plants or animals?


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

FroggyKnight said:


> Nothing happens fast except for you putting them in the tank! I thought you were going to "sit and think on it for a bit"
> 
> I would be careful with the lava rock. If you do not keep the tank wet enough, I can see the rock pulling moisture from the sphagnum base that you put down and drying it out. That shouldn't be a problem if it stays wet, though. This should look really cool when it grows in!
> 
> ...


Haha. Yeah, I sat on it for a little while, futzed with the hardscape a bit, and decided that was probably the best I could do in terms of visual interest and planting area with the stuff I had on hand. The reef bit just refers to how the rocks are oriented. This type of configuration is pretty common in cube nano reefs, not to mention the similarities in texture between the lava and live rock. 

Previous iteration of this tank was a low tech cube for a betta, so it's never been a saltie setup, lol. Also, the lava was soaked for a couple of hours prior, I intend to hand mist as needed, and am keeping the enclosure entirely sealed for the time being. 



rigel10 said:


> If I understand correctly, do you plan a tank with liverwoort, but no other plants or animals?


Well, there's the gono/crepidomanes in there, so there are also ferns, but otherwise, yeah. No animals, and not many plants other than the liverworts.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Hope I live long enough to enjoy your project.....


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

You and me both, Judy!


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Planted.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Just a bit shy of 6 months. Things have been wonky in this setup. The schistochila did really well at first, but crashed very suddenly. I don't think it really liked the sphag slurry on top of it, since it's done very well where the slurry wasn't used. Been battling a bit of a slime algae and fungus gnat problem as well, but these are slowly going away with time. Worts and crepidomanes really starting to encrust well at this point.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Cool!

...more text characters


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Awesome. Glad you like!


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## mitcholito (Dec 30, 2011)

Entering into the world of Hymenophyllums, Gonocormus, liverworts etc, is a challenge. Everything about growing them succesfully over time is more or less pioneers work. 
I think you have done very well so far.

I have been experementing for the last 4-5 years to understand and grow these.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you! I think you're right about this being a largely under-explored aspect of the hobby. Thankfully this stuff will propagate relatively reliably from even the smallest frags when happy, so hopefully we will begin seeing more of these species in the hobby.


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## edaxflamma (Jan 18, 2014)

mitcholito said:


> Entering into the world of Hymenophyllums, Gonocormus, liverworts etc, is a challenge. Everything about growing them succesfully over time is more or less pioneers work.
> I think you have done very well so far.


I agree 100%. Still trying to keep my Hymenophyllum happy. Crepidomanes/Gonocormus is a bit more forgiving. 

I wish they were more common so we could get some more information flowing about these guys. I may start up another thread if you guys would be interested in discussing your successes, failures, and general parameters.

I can't wait to see this after it grows in a bit more. Looking good!


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

edaxflamma said:


> I agree 100%. Still trying to keep my Hymenophyllum happy. Crepidomanes/Gonocormus is a bit more forgiving.
> 
> I wish they were more common so we could get some more information flowing about these guys. I may start up another thread if you guys would be interested in discussing your successes, failures, and general parameters.
> 
> I can't wait to see this after it grows in a bit more. Looking good!


How long have you had they hymenophyllum? Never worked with the genus, and eager to give them a try. 


Thank you! I'll be a lot happier once this slime mold/algae thing is gone and the riccardia in the front right starts to regrow.


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## edaxflamma (Jan 18, 2014)

I've been growing it for about a year now. Unfortunately the first portion of it I received I split into about 12 different locations and none of them really did that well. 

I tried it on cork bark and in moist sphagnum but it never really took off. When I got the humidity right, it grew and did well, then the algae took over. When I tried to get it a bit drier to combat the algae, it shriveled up. Of those from my original trials I've got a patch with large leaves battling algae but still alive, and another patch growing underneath the umbrella of some Margravia that has tiny leaves but is still holding on.

I just received a second allotment and am trying it on clay bases substrates, growstone, and the spyra from Folius. I have a hunch that it is more of a lithophyte than an epiphyte. 

Liverworts are speed demons compared to this fern...

You might be able to spot treat the algae with some H202. I'd do it with my Hymenophyllum but the algae is actually covering the full frond.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

edaxflamma said:


> You might be able to spot treat the algae with some H202. I'd do it with my Hymenophyllum but the algae is actually covering the full frond.



So far, waiting it out seems to be a good strategy. It has definitely tapered off in a big way as the tank has matured. At this point, barring some major change, I think it'll be gone within a month or so... Knock on wood, fingers crossed, all that jazz.


Do you have any fish tanks with amano shrimp? Willing to bet a closely supervised hour or so underwater in a tank with a few amanos would leave those hymenophyllum sparkling clean.


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## edaxflamma (Jan 18, 2014)

inka4040 said:


> Do you have any fish tanks with amano shrimp? Willing to bet a closely supervised hour or so underwater in a tank with a few amanos would leave those hymenophyllum sparkling clean.


Oh man you made my heart sink with that statement. I just got rid of my RCS tank to make room for my second 18x18x24... broke my heart to do it too. The frustration I feel with myself right now knows no bounds.

Hmm... I guess I'll be working on that...

That having been said you might be able to flood the lower part of your viv where the algae is and do the same - just siphon the rest of it out when you are done.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

It's mostly abated at this point. Really got a foothold because the substrate was totally saturated. Now that it's drying out, the balance has shifted in favor of the worts.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Actually took the time to clean the glass on this one today. A lot's happened since the last update. Basically the riccardia has overtaken all of the other cool stuff put in here. A very cool pop up though, seems to be a couple stalks of a hair cap moss sprouting up in the back. Would love to have that really take hold.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

....very cool


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Great tank, visually striking!
In your experience, Riccardia needs lots of light or little to thrive. I am tempted to take this wort to the bottom of some of my vivs, but I have dim light there.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

In my experience, it will even grow in deep shade as long as there is enough moisture. The growth is very slow, however.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is really cool.

Wouldn't it b eneat to make something like this in a pretty big enclosure?


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Seriously, i'd love to have one big enough to get the same effect of the riccardia with something like marchantia or riccocarpus. Bunch of cool ferns and club mosses growing out of big boulders.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

inka4040 said:


> In my experience, it will even grow in deep shade as long as there is enough moisture. The growth is very slow, however.


IHow long is your photoperiod? ...I think I had it survive OK in less then high light but it slowly died out eventually; though that was most likely due to me getting lazy in my pruning efforts


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

inka4040 said:


> Seriously, i'd love to have one big enough to get the same effect of the riccardia with something like marchantia or riccocarpus. Bunch of cool ferns and club mosses growing out of big boulders.


I've started a new project in a 30 breeder fish tank. It's an experiment. I hope the effect will be pretty cool. And I hope the plants will grow. I am mainly using temperate terrestrial mosses, which can be tricky.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> IHow long is your photoperiod? ...I think I had it survive OK in less then high light but it slowly died out eventually; though that was most likely due to me getting lazy in my pruning efforts


It's growing and spreading in deep shade in this tank, as well as in the orch box. Main predictor of success for me seems to be consistent enough moisture. 



hydrophyte said:


> I've started a new project in a 30 breeder fish tank. It's an experiment. I hope the effect will be pretty cool. And I hope the plants will grow. I am mainly using temperate terrestrial mosses, which can be tricky.


I'm always interested in how that ends up going. Your temperate moss tanks have really piqued my interest, especially the one with the lycopodiums. Would be amazing to see those growing with long term success and no seasonal oscillations.


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## inka4040 (Oct 14, 2010)

Guess I missed the 2 year anniversary on this setup by a few weeks. Not sure if saying it requires absolutely 0 maintenance is correct, but that's more or less what it receives. Happy to report that the haircap moss looking stuff continues to spread, albeit slowly. The brown spots of dieback seem to happen randomly, without any corresponding stressor that I can pinpoint. They always fill back in eventually, and a random spot elsewhere starts to brown out. Hm... Go figure. 

Here's what the setup looks like as of today.


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