# Gamble's 125g Pepperi Build



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Hey All-

Im going to be starting to build a 125g tank for some A.Pepperi "Orange" that im getting from UE next week. 
It will house 4 Pepperi for right now. Elaine at UE told me i could house 8 - 12 in this size tank, so i will most likely be adding some in the future when they become available again.

Just wanted to share. I will be updating regularly.

Thx for viewing!

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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Subscribed!


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is a pic of the tank and stand.

The tank is a standard 125g which is 6ft long.

Above the 125g will be 4 Protean tanks, that are coming in next weekend.(17.5 x 24 x 18); (I will also have a build thread for those)

The stand is an industrial rack that holds 2000lbs per shelf.










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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I have been going back and forth with Mike Rizzo from Glass Box Tropicals, to decide on a wood & plant package. After a couple weeks, we finally ironed out the details.

I will add that Mike's level of customer service is AMAZING. He was very patient and took alot of time to find the exact things i wanted. I recommend him to anyone looking for plants/wood. He has definitely earned my business in the future.

Here is the plant list:
Its ALOT of plants:
ET/Caterpillar fern - (this is a large plant, and is hard to find) 
Ficus pumila var. minima - (large pot full) 
Eyelash begonia sp. 
Selaginella plana 
Macodes petola - (nice two stem specimen) 
Episcia sp. Silver Skies 
Ficus sp. Panama 
Pilea glauca 
Pilea sp. Moonlight 
Ruellia sp. 
Ficus radicans - (large multi stem specimen) 
Ficus sp. Panama 
Episcia sp. Silver Skies 
Eyelash Begonia sp. 
Cissus amazonica 
Pellionia argentea - (large multi stem specimen) 
Pilea grandifolia 
Pilea grandifolia 
Rabbits Foot Fern - (large specimen size) 
Sinningia sp. 'Freckles' - (large specimen size) 
Tray full of Pilea microphylla prostrata - (the entire tray is one huge mat, can just take scissors and cut it up and place it throughout the tank)

And here is a pic showing a generalized idea of how it will look in the tank. (Thanks Mike!)







The front right will have a small pond area.

Im still deciding on a background. I also still have to purchase the substrate and leaf litter.

I am also considering buying some Kyoto moss spores and making a slurry to paint the wood/cork with. If anyone has any experience with this moss using it in this type of application, please offer any advice/tips that you have... thx.

More to come!


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

Very cool, Can't wait to see it come together! Mike is awesome to work with and it looks like you have a great plant list going. what fun it is that you have such a large tank to work with!


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Very cool build you have going. I bought an older version of that shelf that has wooden shelves. That is where my viv is going. The limit on mine is 800lbs per shelf, but I like it a lot.

I will have to give glassbox a look. I am about ready to buy my plants.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

LizardLicker said:


> Very cool build you have going. I bought an older version of that shelf that has wooden shelves. That is where my viv is going. The limit on mine is 800lbs per shelf, but I like it a lot.
> 
> I will have to give glassbox a look. I am about ready to buy my plants.


Honestly, i wish mine were wood. (It has the heavy duty wire racks). Im considering replacing them with wood to be honest. 

Yea, get in touch with Mike. He is great. If every business was as customer orientated as his, nobody would ever go out of business.

I will have 4 more tanks to build soon, and im going straight to him. Not even thinking twice about it.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Glad to have been able to help you so much Nick! You should have the wood Saturday or Monday to start working on the tank, and then plants on Monday too! With an extra two weeks of growth on them, they are all a bit bigger as well now too!


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Looking forward see how this comes along, i'm sure it will be spectacular
If i were you i'd move the tank to the top shelf thougt.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Sammie said:


> Looking forward see how this comes along, i'm sure it will be spectacular
> If i were you i'd move the tank to the top shelf thougt.


Thx! 

I was considering it but i decided against it. I just figured that was alot of weight, (probably much heavier than the other 4 tanks will be) and i didnt want the rack to be top heavy. Also, didnt want to take the chance of something bad happening, and one day find that tank and everything under it smashed beyond recognition if the shelf ever gave out. Thirdly, ive heard Pepperi like it slightly cooler (low 70s), so i decided to keep their tank closer to the floor where its cooler.

But trust me, i would like the tank to be higher.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Subscribed! Looking forward to the progress!

-Chris


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Thx!
> 
> I was considering it but i decided against it. I just figured that was alot of weight, (probably much heavier than the other 4 tanks will be) and i didnt want the rack to be top heavy. Also, didnt want to take the chance of something bad happening, and one day find that tank and everything under it smashed beyond recognition if the shelf ever gave out. Thirdly, ive heard Pepperi like it slightly cooler (low 70s), so i decided to keep their tank closer to the floor where its cooler.
> 
> But trust me, i would like the tank to be higher.



That's the first thing I thought too. Yes it would look better higher up, but you're always supposed to put the heaviest thing on the bottom shelf for stability. With little ones running around the house always better safe than sorry.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Gamble said:


> Thx!
> 
> I was considering it but i decided against it. I just figured that was alot of weight, (probably much heavier than the other 4 tanks will be) and i didnt want the rack to be top heavy. Also, didnt want to take the chance of something bad happening, and one day find that tank and everything under it smashed beyond recognition if the shelf ever gave out. Thirdly, ive heard Pepperi like it slightly cooler (low 70s), so i decided to keep their tank closer to the floor where its cooler.
> 
> *But trust me, i would like the tank to be higher.*


I see. Well, I wouldn't worry about the shelfes breaking, 2000lbs is _alot_, almost a metric ton. I mean, that shelf could hold a small car
And as for the rack being top heavy, I see your concern, but it would be easy enought to bolt it to the wall.

Your rack will surely be awesome either way, I'm just saying that if you want to have it on top you can


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> That's the first thing I thought too. Yes it would look better higher up, but you're always supposed to put the heaviest thing on the bottom shelf for stability. With little ones running around the house always better safe than sorry.


My thoughts exactlyJon.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Sammie said:


> I see. Well, I wouldn't worry about the shelfes breaking, 2000lbs is _alot_, almost a metric ton. I mean, that shelf could hold a small car
> And as for the rack being top heavy, I see your concern, but it would be easy enought to bolt it to the wall.
> 
> Your rack will surely be awesome either way, I'm just saying that if you want to have it on top you can


I dont like you Sam! 
Bc now u really have me thinking about it.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Gamble said:


> I dont like you Sam!
> Bc now u really have me thinking about it.


Yeah I know, I'm such an a**hole

Filled with water I think your tank would weigh like 1800lbs or something (but don't quote me on that ) , so I'd say you're pretty much safe.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Sammie said:


> Yeah I know, I'm such an a**hole
> 
> Filled with water I think your tank would weigh like 1800lbs or something (but don't quote me on that ) , so I'd say you're pretty much safe.


In my opinion, thats kinda cutting it close if u ask me!


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

That's only if it's actually full of water. Yours would mostly be air.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Here are the inhabitants:

4 A.Pepperi "Orange"





































They are in a QT tank until i get their permanent home finished.
They are 6mo old. They will reach full color around 1yr old, and sexual maturity around 2yrs of age.

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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I started working on the background the other day.
I decided to use silicone and cocofiber for it.

View attachment 33158


Yea ... ill never do it again.
First off, that s*** was so strong, it had my eyes watering and my nose dripping. I felt like i got bombed by tear gas.

Secondly, i was told by somebody that i could silicone the whole background, then add my soil. 
Well, by the time i got to that part, the top layer of silicone had already dried. So i had to rip off the dry "skin" to get to the wet part just to add it.

So my background is now super thin, and has bare spots. Not to mention all the $ i spent on silicone just went down the drain.



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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Heres the silicone when i started:















So i finished the background this morning.
I ended up buying some Titebond III based off of a recommendation from a friend. I ended up mixing the glue with the cocofiber and laying it over top of the existing background.





















This was ALOT easier to work with, not to mention: NO FUMES!

I added some knobs and such into the background to make it look more like a tree would. Only time will tell if it holds shape once it dries. I also added some cork tubes from the background. (Held in place at the base with the glue/fiber mixture). I decided to do it like this bc i read that once the glue dries, its superhard and wont crumble. Again, only time will tell if it works.
Ill know in about a week once its fully cured.

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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Nick,
First your link didn't work for me. 
You've bought something more valuable than a few tubes of silicone. Experience. 
I could see on a small tank that you would have time to lay all of the silicone down and then your coco/peat. But on a bigger tank like your 125, I could see where the skin would form before you were done spreading it around. The other problem with silicone is it's hard to get a uniform layer and for it to be spread evenly. That's why I used the Titebond II instead of silicone over my GS. The other factor for me was cost. I picked up a whole gallon of the Titebond II for less than $18. I did my 55 and my 36 and I still have over half a gallon left. It goes way further than silicone. 
While coco fiber may look more appealing than black contact paper, that's about all you did was block out the inside of the tank. Just plain silicone and coco smeared all over the inside of the tank does absolutely zero to increase the amount of usable habitat on the inside of the tank. You could have just painted the outside of the tank or used black contact paper and achieved the same results. At least you realized how noxious silicone is when it cures. It's a good lesson for everyone to learn. This is exactly why we should all make sure that any silicone we use is 100% cured before any frogs, plants, substrate, goes into the tank. Could you imagine being a frog being trapped in a sealed up tank with those silicone fumes? 
Live and learn dude. We've all had fails on backgrounds before. 
Are you gonna try and lay something else over the BG that's already on the tank? I'm not sure how anything else might stick to the coco/silicone that's already there. It's worth a shot though.

Ok you posted again while I was typing this lol.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Nick,
> First your link didn't work for me.
> You've bought something more valuable than a few tubes of silicone. Experience.
> I could see on a small tank that you would have time to lay all of the silicone down and then your coco/peat. But on a bigger tank like your 125, I could see where the skin would form before you were done spreading it around. The other problem with silicone is it's hard to get a uniform layer and for it to be spread evenly. That's why I used the Titebond II instead of silicone over my GS. The other factor for me was cost. I picked up a whole gallon of the Titebond II for less than $18. I did my 55 and my 36 and I still have over half a gallon left. It goes way further than silicone.
> ...


Lol... 
Yea Jon ... i did the titebond. (As u just saw).
I added some cork tubes and some shaped glue/soil... 
I wasnt planning on doing the background, but i bought the tank off a friend and the back of the tank was painted blue already, and i couldnt get it off, so i had to hide it somehow.
Im also planning on letting vines and moss grow on the back of it too.

But youre correct, the experience i just gained was invaluable. Its my 1st background that ive ever done (not counting cocomats). I just wish my first time didnt have to be on my biggest tank.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Dude, I can only imagine the small fortune you spent on silicone for that thing. Probably the entire income of some small countries lol. 
I understand though, ya gotta get rid of that blue or it looks like your frogs are underwater. How is the Titebond drying for you? I let mine dry for a minimum of 24 hours before flipping the tank over to do another side.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Dude, I can only imagine the small fortune you spent on silicone for that thing. Probably the entire income of some small countries lol.
> I understand though, ya gotta get rid of that blue or it looks like your frogs are underwater. How is the Titebond drying for you? I let mine dry for a minimum of 24 hours before flipping the tank over to do another side.


Yea im not even gonna discuss the silicone 
And then i had to go spend more $ on the titebond. Lesson learned.

I just finished it this morning, and i layed it fairly thick in spots, so im probably gonna let it cure for about a week b4 i stand the tank back up.

Ill be posting my results here. I cant wait to finish this damn thing!


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is a picture of the finished background. Now i just have to add the substrate and plant it.









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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is the tank with the substrate. 
Im going to just be using a sphagnum moss layer and moss & leaf litter on top of it. Im not going to be using soil in this build.









With the wood in tank.








AND FINALLY ... THE PLANTED TANK!




























I just have to add the moss, order some leaf litter, and im waiting to hear back from JungleBox for a new glass top.

Ill post more pictures once its finally 100% complete.

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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Looks great Nick! Like everyone says with new builds, it's going to look even better with some growth!


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## MollyAttack (Sep 24, 2011)

Looks good, but would be even better with some nice plants on that background!


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

@ Kit & Molly:
All in due time my friends. Theres alot more plants in there than what it looks like. Those pics are deceiving.
I will be adding pics every month or so to show the growth once its completed 100%.

All i know is that this tank is huge and my Pepperi are going to love it.
Its a big giant playground for them.

Theyre gonna look awesome once they reach full color orange standing out against all those greens and browns. I cant wait.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is the tank finished off with leaf litter. 
Now i just need to get the misting system & let it grow out a little bit.
I have also ordered 4 more Pepperi from UE to go in this tank, which will bring it to 8 total.























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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

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## jdecker5563 (Nov 7, 2011)

what is the titebond method? Do you mix the peatmoss in with the titebond and spread it around or paint the titebond on the background and push the peat moss into it like with silicon? I've used silicone before on a smaller viv and it worked great it was just very time consuming and I can only do a few inches at a time before the silicone dries up...


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## KC3 (Sep 12, 2012)

jdecker5563 said:


> what is the titebond method? Do you mix the peatmoss in with the titebond and spread it around or paint the titebond on the background and push the peat moss into it like with silicon? I've used silicone before on a smaller viv and it worked great it was just very time consuming and I can only do a few inches at a time before the silicone dries up...


A lot of people just mix the TB III (waterproof) with the substrate (Coco fiber, ABG Mix ect) instead of placing the glue down and patching it all together. When I was doing it I had several posts and read on the forum how to do it. There's a lot of good information and how to threads. Some people said use a 2:1 ratio (Glueeat) while most I found relied on the consistency of more a thick slurry or yogurt for example, you should be able to see some white in there. I left this simple because I know there are more experienced people to help you out that probably have better methods but hope that helps a little bit. Just ask around and look on the discussions.

Take Care


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## notEZbeingGREEN (Sep 17, 2012)

I love the "minimalist" look of this...once some plants fill in a bit this will be awesome!


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I personally tried both methods; (glue first w/ soil press & glue/soil mix ... both using titebond 3) ... i personally liked the mix the best. Laying the glue first only gave a very thin layer when pressing the soil in, which wouldve required multiple layers to get the same thickness as the mix method. In addition, the glue is very runny, which also made the pressing method thinner. 

Also, when mixing, make sure the make the soil damp, (NOT soaking), bc if not, the dry soil will soak up the glue and then it will require even more glue then is necessary.

The benefits of the mix, is that it goes down thicker, and u can somewhat mold different shapes and textures.

This was the first background ive built. (In the past ive just done plain glass or used coco panels). 

My next experiment will be to use great stuff and wood to try to get a background with more "depth". Im going to practice on a 10g vert, and if it turns out good, im going to do this to my 4 32g protean eurovivs.

Its a trade off. The titebond method is very easy to do but doesnt give the depth of other methods.


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

Your viv looks great! I love the fallen log look. Can't wait to see photos of the Pepperi bouncing around in there


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Well, i have had a bit of a set-back on this tank.
Somehow, (i suspect my cat), the two cork tubes coming out of the background got ripped out of my background. 

So now, i have 2 giant gaping holes where they used to be.
As expected, im not happy. 
This build took alot of time and effort to get completed, and now my frogs will not be going in as planned until its repaired.

Does anyone know if titebond is toxic to our frogs?
The reason i ask is bc behind the background that had cured, was soil that basically turned to sand where the dirt didnt cure and "poured" into the tank from the new holes, onto the leaf litter, moss, and some of the plants. 

There were puddles on some of the litter, and where the dirt landed into the water, the water turned into "milk" i assume from the traces of glue still left in the dirt.

Should i be concerned with this, and pull everything the dirt came into contact with including the fallen dirt itself, or am worrying too much?


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Brian317 said:


> Your viv looks great! I love the fallen log look. Can't wait to see photos of the Pepperi bouncing around in there


Im glad you caught the "concept". My intention was to have a forest floor type of scenery.
That cork tube/log was special ordered and is around 5ft long!

Thx everyone for the compliments. I too cant wait to see this grown in. Im hoping to eventually get the background with growth too.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to accomplish this?


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

Looking awesome. Subscribed. Have you heard any calling? My pepperi started calling before a year was through.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

winstonamc said:


> Looking awesome. Subscribed. Have you heard any calling? My pepperi started calling before a year was through.


Thx. 
I have not heard any calling. Elaine told me that they do not reach sexual maturity until 2 yrs of age. She also said that they will not reach full coloration until about a yr old.
Mine are nowhere near that age yet.
Btw, i ordered 4 more from them. They will be coming in the december shipment.


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

that's awesome that you're getting four more. I've got the orangehead/rood, which it appears they haven't gotten to breed in a while. But, expect calling to start well before sexual maturity.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

winstonamc said:


> that's awesome that you're getting four more. I've got the orangehead/rood, which it appears they haven't gotten to breed in a while. But, expect calling to start well before sexual maturity.


Thats awesome. I wouldve loved to have the orangeheads instead, but all i could find were the standard oranges.
I hope they do call early, bc their call is awesome.

Question: 
Ive heard only the dominant male calls if multiple males are in the enclosure.
Have you found this to be accurate? Im hoping its not.


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

I lost a few due to bad frog sitting and weird seizure, but at one point there was a main caller and a minor caller. I lost my main caller and the new caller is distinctly quieter. The main male had a really, really loud call.

P.S. I've heard that the whole skewed ratio of sexes isn't true according to Mark Pepper.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

winstonamc said:


> P.S. I've heard that the whole skewed ratio of sexes isn't true according to Mark Pepper.


Ive heard the same. (Same source).

PS. Sorry for your loss. 

BTW, what temp do you keep yours at?
Ive heard they like cooler temps. My tank is closer to the floor and the temp stays between 69°F - 71.5°F.


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

I basically have an AC unit that keeps the temp below 80 when it's warm out and we humans keep the temp above 65 for our own sake. Because of our shitty heating system, the temp drops a bit at night, which works out nicely.


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## jdecker5563 (Nov 7, 2011)

Thanks for the help, I will probably use great stuff to make the shape and depth I want for my background and apply the titebond to that. Like i said, i used the press on method using silicone and it worked but i did that on a twenty gallon, and the next one I'm working on will be a seventy five so I'm looking for something a little bit faster. when you say there is white that will be showing while mixing it, will i need to add more afterwards to cover that up or will it get covered when applying it to the backdrop? thanks again


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Finally fixed my background after the mishap.
Also having a hard time with the plants, so im going to be getting some more hardier ones from Rizzo to fill in some of the empty space.




























Btw, the glue is dry now, so it doesnt look like a big white spot anymore where i patched it.

Hoping to finally get my Pepperi out of their temp tank & into this in a couple weeks.

Ill add more pics once i get the newer plants from Mikey.

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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I FINALLY added my 4 Pepperi into their 125g yesterday. 
Now i just need to get the other 4 so i can add them next ;-)

Ill be posting some more pics in 2-3 months to show how everything is growing in.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Gamble said:


> I FINALLY added my 4 Pepperi into their 125g yesterday.
> Now i just need to get the other 4 so i can add them next ;-)
> 
> Ill be posting some more pics in 2-3 months to show how everything is growing in.


Dude...2-3 months????
How about some pics in 2-3 days???


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Dude...2-3 months????
> How about some pics in 2-3 days???


LMAO!
You always crack me up Jon.

I was considering it, but the tank pretty much looks the same as the previous pics.
In all actuality, theres less plant foliage due to some die off i had when i CO2 bombed the tank to give the plants a boost. Everything just started growing again (nicely i might add) about a week or so ago.

So ill make you a compromise, instead of waiting 2-3mo, ill snap some pics in 2-3 weeks... good enough?


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## mtndendros (Feb 10, 2012)

Is there an update? It's been a month .......


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Here ya go ...
There hasn't been much growth. 
I had a setback when I gave this tank a CO injection to boost the plants causing alot of die off. (Which is normal). But soon after, the plants started growing really well. Unfortunately, most of them are slow growers, so its going to take some time. I do have some plants growing up the background finally tho, so in time I think this tank will look really good.























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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I heard my Pepperi try calling today for the first time, so I decided to snap a couple pics.






















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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Caught my Pepperi in the act, breeding in the leaf litter.








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## toaddrool (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks for this post. Seriously considering this species, and learned some new things. I had been away from the hobby a few years and had not heard of the tight bond method.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

toaddrool said:


> Thanks for this post. Seriously considering this species, and learned some new things. I had been away from the hobby a few years and had not heard of the tight bond method.


No problem.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.

I will actually be moving them into a new tank soon, so stay posted.


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