# Treating sad, sick frogs



## VoidDiver (Oct 2, 2014)

So my frogs I mentioned in another thread are undergoing treatment for chytrid and nematodes. I got medicine itraconazole in sodium chloride, and ivomec respectively. The vet stressed the most pressing concern was treating the chytrid so a handful of days into it my frogs are now distinctly lacking energy to escape during treatment and the poops in their QT tubs look like they're covered in white things (the worms?) and appear to be eating less. The vet advised against simultaneous treatment but if those are the worms their infection has clearly gotten worse during the chytrid treatment. I'm debating giving the first of 2 worm treatments tomorrow morning with the chytrid in the evening but I have 2 concerns now. First is something like this 



Rain_Frog said:


> I once took my old group of four Xenopus laevis to have them injected with a diluted solution. While we never confirmed later if the frogs were parasite free, the real danger is your frog going into septic shock if the burden is heavy, because its a 1 hit KO to all the worms, and when they all die immediately, it poisons the bloodstream.


Second is now that the worm infection is worse will they even clear it. Also, the vet only gave meds for one frog as one showed negative fecal but they both have symptoms. I wish I would have treated the worms first :/


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Your vet made the right choice from what little I know about your frog's situation and I strongly believe that you should follow his exact directions. I would not treat for both Chytrid and nematodes at the same time unless it was absolutely necessary. It is important to note that treating in the morning and then in the evening is very stressful and could further compromise your frog's immune system resulting in the Chytrid infection becoming more severe and also giving other pathogens the ability to take hold as well. 

The fact that you can now see nematodes in the frog's stool does not necessarily tell you that the infection is more severe. All that is tells you is that he is actively shedding more of the parasites, which could happen more countless reasons. It is entirely possible that there is a higher number of nematodes present now, but it is better to avoid jumping to conclusions. If you are concerned, contact your veterinarian before doing anything. The white things may also be something totally different and totally harmless. Again, you should check with your vet. 

People are way too concerned with "clearing" their frogs sometimes. There really is no way that you can say that a frog is 100% clear of any internal parasite that I know of without conducting a necropsy. IMO, your primary concern should be careful management. If you are not careful and kill everything off in a single blow, you risk killing you frog with the sheer amount of dead waste that is inside of it if the parasite load is high enough. Treatment is a very delicate thing and decisions regarding it should only be made by a qualified individual (vet!).

John


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## VoidDiver (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks knight. I'll resist the urge to treat. I don't think anyone likes their frogs looking sad, I'd prefer me being annoyingly angsty trying to escape haha. I'll keep a close eye on me and give the vet a call tomorrow if necessary.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

see whether you can get or make AMPHIBIAN Ringers solution--NOT just regular Ringers...it will help your frogs regain the equilibrium of their fluids...look to Dr. Frye, or to the homemade "solution"--Carolina Biologic used to have it...will probably be very helpful. There have been previous threads about this on Dendroboard and DartDen...


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Yesterday I purchased a small pack of Amphib.Ringers--just the salts--from Frogs 'n' Things. you can go to their website for directions...This is probably the "homemade" formula...so I don't know. What I used was compounded for me by a vet, and was fairly expensive for four treatments--but it did help a lot. It was vet prescribed and made at Wedgewood Pharmacy--1-800-331-8272. Sealed, and good for a year. In both cases, the salts are disolved in distilled water....the frogs "bathe" in it for about five/ten min.....you have to make sure their heads get some on it as well....by sort of tilting the tub...remove the frogs to their QT which has been thoroughly 10% bleached again, wet paper towel...a few 10% bleached plastic flowers and a hide (which has been bleached as well)...and then toss the Amphib.solution, 10% bleach THAT tub...and you're ready for the next day...


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## OrangeTyrant (May 12, 2011)

While Amphibian's ringers is a good physiologic solution for many problems and something to have on hand, I would not use it in this instance because you are treating them topically at a prescribed concentration for chytrid. You do not then want to bathe them in something else and dilute the itraconazole and effectively wash off the medication they so desperately need. 

If you feel Amphibian ringers should be added to your treatment regimen, please consult with your exotic veterinarian first.


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## VoidDiver (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks for your feedback guys. I'll search the forums and look into this. I'm assuming then that you're recommending the ringers for the worms? I've been following the protocols closely for the chytrid regimen. I'll be shocked if they come out positive with that after


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

The Ringers will not do anything about the worms...as with any animal, one medical treatment at a time, and especially with animals under stress. And worming animals can be a sort of hit and miss...if you examine a fecal, you may miss what is there--that is why if you are doing a worming because everything you can see leads you to believe strongly that that is the problem, I tend to come back in two weeks and worm again because they can be in areas where they are not detected on a fecal. Bathing with the Ringers was supportive as I was using an oral medication...Lamisil was not being produced at the time I needed it so had to get oral meds.


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