# Urgent Help Needed!



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Hi, I have a large 100x40x50cm tank with 4 11 month old leucs in it. I've had them about a month and they've been really active, eating and happy. Last weekend I went away and asked a friend who knows a lot about reptiles and amphibians to look after them, gave them a detailed list of how to look after them, condition their water etc. 

I usually keep a big misting bottle of conditioned water and use that to spray the frogs and refill their water bowl, and use that water for about a week until or until empty, and change it to a new one. I've figured out today that the person who helped, got the water conditioner I had for them, a simple aquasafe water conditioner, confused with API Stress Coat that I have for my fish. I've been spraying them with this and their water bowl for around 5 days and today they are completely lethargic and not moving. I've changed the water but the misted environment is impossible to clean. 

It could also be because it's very cold in England right now, I've given them a heat mat on the outside of their tank to regulate their temperature but I'm worried they're poisoned. 

They've been given food and none of them are moving to eat, I've even poked one that I thought was dead, and he hasn't moved. He is still breathing. 

Please help.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

I forgot to add that this morning I saw them jumping around and resting in the water bowl that had the old conditioner.


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

First, they probably don't need a water bowl, just keep the vivarium humidity up around the 60-80% range. I might also suggest using RO or Distilled water to spray the enclosure.

The best thing you can do at this point is give the entire enclosure a good long spray to try and clean off all the surfaces.

As for the effect of stress coat on frogs, the API stress coat is really just a water conditioner with some Aloe in it. I can't see Aloe being that potent and hurting the frogs, but again, I've never sprayed liquid Aloe on my frogs.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Chris S said:


> First, they probably don't need a water bowl, just keep the vivarium humidity up around the 60-80% range. I might also suggest using RO or Distilled water to spray the enclosure.
> 
> The best thing you can do at this point is give the entire enclosure a good long spray to try and clean off all the surfaces.
> 
> As for the effect of stress coat on frogs, the API stress coat is really just a water conditioner with some Aloe in it. I can't see Aloe being that potent and hurting the frogs, but again, I've never sprayed liquid Aloe on my frogs.


Thank you, I know they don't need a water bowl but they quite enjoy jumping in and out of it so I've left it in. I'll spray them down and hope that's okay. I think I may have been overreacting with how toxic I thought it was haha


----------



## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

use 'tap' water if possible = most city water is of excellent quality. NYC areas have some excellent water for example. Allow the water to 'de-gass' uncovered overnight if possible.

falling that, use grocery store 'spring water'.

DI or RO water is 'overkill' and unessa imo.

I would not use conditioners or aquarium water products in any event.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Philsuma said:


> use 'tap' water if possible = most city water is of excellent quality. NYC areas have some excellent water for example. Allow the water to 'de-gass' uncovered overnight if possible.
> 
> falling that, use grocery store 'spring water'.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately London water in my area has is not the best quality. But I do try to leave water out and uncovered over night before use. Thank you


----------



## TravisH (Jan 18, 2017)

Isn't chloramine considered toxic to amphibians?

I would recommend reading up on chloramine use in water treatment and then confirm one's municipality uses for disinfection. London....chloramine is often used according to a quick search.

The "de-gas" method is a throw back method that isn't safe to follow for many municipalities. Chloramines are prevalent in use (1 in 5 use water treated with chloramine) as it has a much longer dwell time and won't off gas and is reason for the sodium thiosulfate conditioners. You also need to check frequently (municipalities water confidence report) as many switch off and on seasonally between methods. Historically chloramine concentration in tap water is considered at levels toxic to amphibians.

Most municipality water should be in safe ranges with respect to to to other variables but always one needs to check.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Hi, I posted yesterday worried about a water conditioner that a friend used on my frog water for a week, and gave since changed all their water with conditioned water that was allowed to sit for 24 hours, and tried to mist away and residue on leaves etc. 

Today they're moving slightly but not eating even though there's many flies in their tank. They're sitting watching the flies move. 

I've put a heatmat at 68° F on one side to try and warm them up incase it's cold that's upsetting them, and moved a small radiator into my room. It is pretty cold in the UK and I don't have an accurate thermometer on me right now. All my other heating is broken but the room doesn't feel that cold. 

Any advice on why they're lethargic? It seems to have only started yesterday. Is there any charts on how their weight should look because I'm worries they're getting too slim now. Unless they're eating when I'm not looking they haven't eaten in close to 3 possibly 4 days. 

I've had them about a month and they've been happy up until this point. There's 4 leucs in a 100x40x50cm tank.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

FlaviaR said:


> Hi, I posted yesterday worried about a water conditioner that a friend used on my frog water for a week, and gave since changed all their water with conditioned water that was allowed to sit for 24 hours, and tried to mist away and residue on leaves etc.
> 
> Today they're moving slightly but not eating even though there's many flies in their tank. They're sitting watching the flies move.
> 
> ...


I can't see how I can post pictures of them here.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Just been on the phone with the people who supplied me the frogs and they suggested over head heating during winter. I was going to move them back home to warm up as my flat in London has no heating. Would transporting them now damage them?


----------



## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

FlaviaR said:


> Just been on the phone with the people who supplied me the frogs and they suggested over head heating during winter. I was going to move them back home to warm up as my flat in London has no heating. Would transporting them now damage them?


Overhead heating, through a heat bulb (I'm assuming that's what the supplier meant) is a risky method to warm up a frog tank. It could easily cook the frogs. 

What are the temperatures in the tank?

My frog tanks are routinely at 65F - 70F in the summer (ironically my frog room is cooler in the summer than the winter because it's adjacent to my furnace room)


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Overhead heating, through a heat bulb (I'm assuming that's what the supplier meant) is a risky method to warm up a frog tank. It could easily cook the frogs.
> 
> What are the temperatures in the tank?
> 
> My frog tanks are routinely at 65F - 70F in the summer (ironically my frog room is cooler in the summer than the winter because it's adjacent to my furnace room)


Unfortunately I don't have a reliable thermometer right now. I'm travelling to a reptile shop today to get one. My last one just broke at the worst time. I was thinking of putting them in a small box for the moment as it's easier to heat and transport home to a heated room. Also it should be easier to monitor feed and for them to find food while they're putting weight back on.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Overhead heating, through a heat bulb (I'm assuming that's what the supplier meant) is a risky method to warm up a frog tank. It could easily cook the frogs.
> 
> What are the temperatures in the tank?
> 
> My frog tanks are routinely at 65F - 70F in the summer (ironically my frog room is cooler in the summer than the winter because it's adjacent to my furnace room)


Would a heatmat be better? That's what I've got now but in a very small section of the larger tank


----------



## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I'm no water expert by any means and I kind agree ^^ with what you say but I've raised the rarest and hardest frogs in the past 10 years on Pennsyltucky tap water and I'm pretty sure it has chloramine added. I used to spend 800.00 a year of delivered distilled water but that cost and lifting the jugs around got old real fast.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Philsuma said:


> I'm no water expert by any means and I kind agree ^^ with what you say but I've raised the rarest and hardest frogs in the past 10 years on Pennsyltucky tap water and I'm pretty sure it has chloramine added. I used to spend 800.00 a year of delivered distilled water but that cost and lifting the jugs around got old real fast.


Just water with no conditioner? Do you leave it uncovered for a while? Thank you so much.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

An IR temp gun is the tool to measure temps in a frog viv. They can be purchased at hardware stores or Amazon. 

For heat, from best to worst in this order:

heating the whole house (safest, most easily controllable)
heating the room with a safe space heater (oil filled electric)
putting the viv into a custom-designed heated cabinet
radiant heat panel (work well, moisture-resistant, but hard to implement into a dart viv since the panel is large).
heat mat or heat lamp (tie for last place, as heat mats don't really work for heating an entire enclosure that's vented and uninsulated; heat lamps because they heat a spot and darts aren't naturally basking thermoregulators).
Also consider swapping out LED lighting for florescents -- makes more heat and can raise the daytime temps.

Accurately measuring the temps of the viv and the room needs to be done before adding any heat, though.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> An IR temp gun is the tool to measure temps in a frog viv. They can be purchased at hardware stores or Amazon.
> 
> For heat, from best to worst in this order:
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, I'm going to move them back to my parents house that has more stable heated rooms as it's a small cottage compared to a Wearhouse conversion flat. I've put them in a smaller RUB with a heat mat and theyre eating for now, but still quite slow.


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> An IR temp gun is the tool to measure temps in a frog viv. They can be purchased at hardware stores or Amazon.
> 
> For heat, from best to worst in this order:
> 
> ...


I'm going to order one of those thermometers today, thank you so much


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Your original post is over here.

This thread will probably get combined with the original, so please be sure you know where it is?


----------



## FlaviaR (Oct 31, 2021)

Scott said:


> Your original post is over here.


Thank you for linking it! I've talked with a few people that say the water conditioner would have no affect on them. They seem to be moving a bit more now that I've warmed their smaller box.


----------

