# panacur how to stick



## Guest (Jun 6, 2006)

When I dust my ff with Panacur almost none of it sticks. how do you guys do it?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

You may want to crush it to make it finer. I've heard it comes in anywhere from larger grains to a very fine dust. The finer the better would be the best for sticking to the ff's.


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

i keep a mortar and pestle for super fine grinding of supplements, panacur, and any other things i dust flys with (paprika, etc).


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Mine never dusted on _great_, but there was enough on there that I wasn't terribly worried.


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## Chondro Invert (Sep 19, 2005)

My question where is the best place to get panacur?

Thanks 
Joe G.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

The ONLY place to get panacur is a vet. It only comes by perscription.


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## twisner (Jul 7, 2005)

Catfur said:


> The ONLY place to get panacur is a vet. It only comes by perscription.


I am sure that isnt true. Maybe you can only get fine powder from a vet but it is a fairly common medicine for a variety of animals.


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Panacur paste is readily available.. mostly used for larger mammals aka large dogs, esp horses.. this is w/o prescription I believe, the powdered or granular stuff you need a vets script.. here's a link http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... N=0&Nty=1.. for the powdered stuff.. also I am not sure but I think there is a vet that is on this board that will sell you some, if I'm not mistaken.. Peter Keane, JungleWorld...


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Catfur said:


> The ONLY place to get panacur is a vet. It only comes by perscription.


NOT true... I just bought some on Ebay. It comes in tablet form, so you need to have a mortar and pestle to make it a fine powder, but it is the same thing as you would get in fine powder form from the vet.

EDIT** I mistakenly posted that I got mine in tablet form, but when I opened th epackage today is is actually in powder form.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Bingo, but it's a pain in the @$$!



NCSUdart said:


> i keep a mortar and pestle for super fine grinding of supplements, panacur, and any other things i dust flys with (paprika, etc).


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "NOT true... I just bought some on Ebay. It comes in tablet form, so you need to have a mortar and pestle to make it a fine powder, but it is the same thing as you would get in fine powder form from the vet" endsnip 

Dusting is a horribly inaccurate method of admistering the wormers as the dose cannot be controlled resulting in either underdosing or overdosing. While panacure is considered relatively safe, there can be serious consequences in overdosing...

If you are grinding tablets up to admister the dosage then you need to grind the entire tablet and not part of the tablet this is becase the medication may not be evenly distributed throughout the tablet unlike the powder. The tablet is the unit of dosage, unlike the powder. 

Personally if restraining the frogs is an issue, I would suggest getting a wormer that can be admistered through dripping on the frog's back such as ivermectin or levamisol. This will allow for a controllable dosage administration. 

Ed


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Ed,

Is it difficult to get the right dosage/amount of ivermectin or levamisol drip? Tincs/thumbs?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Dave,

If you are working with a vet then no it isn't hard. I have used these products to treat anurans as small as metamorphic golden mantellas. 

You just need to conduct a dilution to get a volume sufficient enough that you can deliver the drops via a syringe. 

Ed


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Ed said:


> snip "NOT true... I just bought some on Ebay. It comes in tablet form, so you need to have a mortar and pestle to make it a fine powder, but it is the same thing as you would get in fine powder form from the vet" endsnip
> 
> Dusting is a horribly inaccurate method of admistering the wormers as the dose cannot be controlled resulting in either underdosing or overdosing. While panacure is considered relatively safe, there can be serious consequences in overdosing...
> 
> ...


Made the mistake of posting before I opened the package... it actually was in powder form, not tablet. I guess I had been looking at an auction for tablets and ended up buying one that had powder. Even better that way, but I still took the powder and ground it up even more than it comes out the package and it stuck very well to the flies.


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## mike (Mar 8, 2005)

*fenbendazole*

I checked with the local vets and pet shops
to locate some panacur to have on hand.
None of them stocked it. Just happen to be
in Wal-Mart one day and checked their pet
department. They have it under the brand 
name Safe-guard canine dewormer in the
granules. It comes in a box of 3 foil packets,
in the 22.2% strength for around $5.00.
Expiration on the packets is 08/08 so it has
a pretty good shelf life. 
Just thought I would throw this in for those
that might be looking for some.
Mike


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Didn't know Wally world had it, but that's exactly what I got.


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2006)

Can liquid panacur be sprayed or dripped effectively?

If so it is, available in liquid form here. This is actually 10% liquid suspension of fenbendazole, the active deworming ingredient in Panacur.

I am no way connected to the seller or site, just a friend of mine whom has great customer service. I deal with him because of my other hobby - seahorses and saltwater aquaria.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Panacure needs to be administed orally. So spraying or dripping will not work with it. This method does work with ivermectin and levamisol can be used as a bath. 

Ed


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2006)

Can the fenbendazole liquid formula I linked to work administered orally then?
I didn't know it had to be adminstered orally with frogs. I guessed that it might be absorbed through skin if sprayed or dripped.
I realize this is not aquaria, but in aquarium use, it soaks into sand, rock, some fish, inverts, corals, etc. This was my reasoning when asking about spraying or dripping.

I have some and would like to get the most use out of it. I would think that since it is liquid, it would be easier to use rather than making fine powder and mixing with water when using the tablets from Wal-Mart.

Is the 10% too much?


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## Android1313 (Dec 15, 2006)

Quote from Drsfostersmith.com :



> IMPORTANT: Before you place your order, please have your veterinarian provide our pharmacist with your pet's prescription. State and Federal law requires us to have your prescription on file before we can dispense prescription medications. Thank you.


I guess it is Rx only from them.. :roll: 
Looks like I`m off to Waly mart...........


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## El_Rana (May 29, 2004)

Ed said:


> Panacure needs to be administed orally. So spraying or dripping will not work with it. This method does work with ivermectin and levamisol can be used as a bath.
> 
> Ed



Hello Ed!

I'm an ignorant when it comes to medications:roll: but Could you give your personal opinion on wich method would be a better choice to use on thumnail frogs? and What product gets better results?

Thanks.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I am not a vet but in my opinion you are better off getting an accurate weight on a small frog and get a prescription for ivermectin or levamisol. I am not a fan of shot gun treatments or treatments without checking to see if a parasite is the problem. 

Ed


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## bwebb (Apr 4, 2007)

I have to agree with Ed about shot gun treatment, it makes me uncomfortable. I will say that if you confirm that it is nematodes you need to kill you would be better off orally dosing liquid fenbendazole just for the fact that it is a bit more forgiving than ivermectin.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I've been around since the advent of sulfa and penicillin. I've seen the misuse and shot gun abuse of antibiotics and anti parasite drugs for over 60 years, that have caused a whole new industry of pharmaceuticals just to keep up with the monster resistant pathogens that were created by shot-gun and prophylactic dosing of both humans, other mammals and now herps and amphibians. 

If there's a true problem, like a sick animal with symptoms, diagnose it specifically with bacterial cultures or parasite fecals, and if possible with bacterial cultures, do a test for antibiotic susceptibility of the particular organism that will be prevalent on a culture, not just a lone colony among other normal flora. If there is a very prevalent parasite, or a particularly know pathogen, then treat it very specifically. 

No one should be treating anything without knowing the very specific thing they are treating, or at least being fully sure of the symptoms.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi bwebb

While Panacure (fenbendazole is often more forgiving if overdosed, there is also an accumulating body of literature of adverse reactions to it. 

When treating small frogs, if you have accurate dosing, ivermectin is very safe. We have used it at work to treat frogs as small as .19 grams. 

Ed


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## bwebb (Apr 4, 2007)

Ed, 

I agree that ivermectin is mostly safe when properly dosed, however the recommended doses for frogs are much lower for ivermectin than fenbendazole leaving less room for error. I have been able to find more info on acute liver toxicity and other side effects in respose to ivermectin than for fenbendazole. If you have any links to scholarly info on the side effects of both drugs I'd like to read them. Really, as with nearly all all antihelmenthics you are going to run into a level of toxicity to the host just because of the nature of the drugs, so I would say accurate dosing is more important than the type of drug you administer.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "recommended doses for frogs are much lower for ivermectin than fenbendazole leaving less room for error. I have been able to find more info on acute liver toxicity and other side effects in respose to ivermectin than for fenbendazole"endsnip

Yes the doses are lower which can allow for greater ease in potential overdosing. When looking at the studies you have to keep in mind that the use of ivermectin and fenbendazole in anurans is a secondary market that has been developed through trial and error and the doses have been determined in this manner so that said... 

see 

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Medica ... mation.htm (particuarly the references at the end of the article

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10 ... Code=javma

http://www.bioone.org/perlserv/?request ... &page=0203

http://www.jaaha.org/cgi/content/abstract/40/3/224

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/j ... 36je04.htm

If the Ivermectin is appropriately diluted down to ensure correct dosing then it is a lot harder to overdose the frog. 

In addition there is a lot of indications that fenbendazole is losing effectivness due to the massive use.. 


Ed


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## bwebb (Apr 4, 2007)

> In addition there is a lot of indications that fenbendazole is losing effectivness due to the massive use..


I have to agree with you on that, especially with all the shotgun prophylactic treatment going with it. Leave five nematodes around that have moderate resistance and soon you will have 500,000, and the cycle continues from there. 

Thanks for the links.


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

The levacol I got says,"As cure: 7days 1 drip on the back of the frog." then under it says for reptiles: 1 drip in mouth or on the food. Is it ok to just drop it on the back of the frog then?? Thanks its from http://www.vivaria.nl


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If what I have been able to locate is correct then this contains levamisol.. Using this as a single drop per frog may cause inexact dosing. According to Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry (2001) requires a topical dose of 8-10 mg/kg for 14-21 days.. 

Depending on the concentration of levamisol in the product, there maybe a risk of underdosing or overdoing the frog (depending on size as a drip it should be based on the weight of the frog..) 

There are already reports of levamisol resistant infections in the literature for other species... 

Ed


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