# KarmaPolice's 30g Paludarium



## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

Hello everyone, it is time for another build for me. I am attempting a 30 gallon glass paludarium build that is very much inspired and copied from FlyingSquirrels 29 Gallon Paludarium Build. I will be using a small pump to circulate the water and will set up a few outputs of integrated tubing so I can keep my options open and experiment with water flow.I will use an internal fan to keep air circulating and humidity up, since there will be no vents to the outside. I will be using the common greatstuff + Silicone + peat moss for the background, an egg crate false bottom, but will be trying to copy Squirrel's idea for the plexiglass retaining walls. 
Now for the dreaded setup pictures, why isn't there plants in there yet dammit!

Two drilled holes for drainage:









Egg crate pump shaft, plexi-glass retaining walls with holes drilled in it for water flow, and home brew bucket spigots (thank you San Diego for providing close home-brew stores)









Top view:









Side Views:

















Egg crate false bottom created and covered in window screen. Also using water plant bag to cover plexi-glass retaining wall. Added internal fan vent shaft with opening covered in window screen, I had also siliconed the inside to hide the white portion of the corrugated plastic









Top View: I ended up cutting the excess fabric from the wall.









Side Views:

















Possible arrangements I had proposed to myself:

















That is all the progress photos I have for now.


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## reptiles12 (Jul 18, 2012)

I literally just finished the same tank lol, mine just has a waterfall down the middle. Anyway, good luck!


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

reptiles12 said:


> I literally just finished the same tank lol, mine just has a waterfall down the middle. Anyway, good luck!


PM me with some pics of your tank would like to check it out. 


I have foamed and carved and should be updating with pics soon. However I wanted to get some input on using something other than silicone covered greatstuff at the water's edge, I've heard of titebond 2 and drylock and mixing one of these with sand or something else, I don't have any experience with these methods, any thoughts?


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

:UPDATE:
So I have completed attaching the ghostwood and Malaysian driftwood to the background and carving out the foam to flow a little more. I will be sanding the spots I didn't foam to prepare for sealing it, hopefully this weekend but we will see. 
I am still looking for thoughts for the drylock and titebond on the substrate retaining wall area.

Let me know what you think of the setup so far.










Top View:









Left/Right Sides:


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## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

Looks good! Subscribed


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## Josh B.A. (Aug 13, 2012)

Very nice! Any thoughts on inhabitants?


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

Josh B.A. said:


> Very nice! Any thoughts on inhabitants?


Unfortunately since its a paludarium there wont be any PDFs, however I do plan to get at the very least some small fish, I will be doing some research on these forums to see what others have suggested and used. But since I am pretty new to fish I'm sure I will have some questions. I plan to acclimate the water after everything has been set up for a bit with some hardy feeder goldfish 

I am always up for suggestions while I research, but i'm sure everyone will have a better idea once its a little further along.


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## doverish (Apr 24, 2014)

Suggestion for critters. Newts, and Shrimp or Tetras. 

If you looking for real fun, you can get newt eggs from local breeders and raise them aquatic to land. Assuming you will have an easy transition from the water to land. Depending on the amount of land, you could go a terrestrial variety like T. shanjing. Or you could go with more aquatic species like to keep critters in the water, and fancy plants on land. With the 30G you could go with crazy things like P. waltl or T. dobrogicus. I'd avoid paddletail newts though, they are jerks. 
Caudata Culture Species Database - Salamandridae

Shrimp and or Tetra's are great because with the range of colors, you can have something that Really pops or is more subtle, and both don't mind the slow moving water in a palu. It would depend on the other inhabitants obviously. 


Just a few ideas.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

doverish said:


> Suggestion for critters. Newts, and Shrimp or Tetras.
> 
> If you looking for real fun, you can get newt eggs from local breeders and raise them aquatic to land. Assuming you will have an easy transition from the water to land. Depending on the amount of land, you could go a terrestrial variety like T. shanjing. Or you could go with more aquatic species like to keep critters in the water, and fancy plants on land. With the 30G you could go with crazy things like P. waltl or T. dobrogicus. I'd avoid paddletail newts though, they are jerks.
> Caudata Culture Species Database - Salamandridae
> ...


Doverish,
Thank you for the information/link. Yes I will be thinking about putting in tetras, I have seen other do shrimp but hadn't thought about that, I like it thought.
The background is pretty vertical and won't be easily climbed if needed. As far as the transition portion, I will have to see how it comes together when I start filling in the water portion with gravel rocks and plants and try and get the water and land portions to flow well together. Newts would be a new field for me and that link lists more than I have ever seen, will have to sit down and see if that would interest me, but for now its just fish / shrimp.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*:UPDATE:*
Small update, I have finely carved to my hearts content trying to get the form I can work with and might work best with the flow of the wood along with filling in any missed spaces and holes with the great stuff foam.
At first I was only going to cover the background with gorilla glue on part of the background that touched the water but decided to try something different and covered the whole background in the gorilla glue. I used a half peat moss and half coco-fiber mixture and am happy with it so far. It took forever to prep the coco-fibers since it came in condensed brick form which I had to hydrate to break apart then dry out before I could press it into the gorilla glue, since water is the catalyst for the glue.

(Front)








(Top)

















I tested and filled up the tank with some water, got some of the excess/loose peat moss mix off the background. I had the top spigot valve open in the back, and this was slight on a slant, but this should be about the max water level in the tank. 









I will need some assistance though. I bought some *CaribSea Flora Max Planted Aquarium Substrate* and filled the water section up with it, however when adding water it seems to cloud up very easily. So it will get cloudy when agitating the mix, kind of like charcoal in water and after a while it will settle to the bottom mostly but still have the water wont be fully clear. I have cycled the water once or twice, adding the water through the pump shaft as to not directly agitate the aquarium substrate. I am new to water setup, treatment, care etc. I'm curious if I just need a few more cycles of water to get the water more transparent and maybe add custom filter pad housing around the pump. I'm currently just using tap water and but want to get more info before I start using RO/Mix in there. I should be getting some more info from my local aquarium store soon, probably some PH testing strips so I can get it ready for its small inhabitants.


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## jakesfarm (Aug 7, 2014)

Tank is looking good! 

The floramax is cloudy when agitated for a while but after a few days it should settle and won't be so cloudy. Ive used it in several aquariums and it just takes some time to settle.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

jakesfarm said:


> Tank is looking good!
> The floramax is cloudy when agitated for a while but after a few days it should settle and won't be so cloudy. Ive used it in several aquariums and it just takes some time to settle.


Thanks Jake, and its good to know it will setting down after being agitated.


So after a recent trip to the San Diego Zoo, I finally was able to check out the 'Insect House' in the kids section since i wanted to view the tanks they had set up there and it was very nice seeing all the tanks and their inhabitants. When I was there I saw a cool bug, a Sunburst Diving Beetle (Thermonectus marmoratus). I didn't see much discussion on the these forums about them, just mentioned on this thread. The thread mainly focuses around butterflies so I did some research of my own. Found some info on 'The Reptile Blog' and some more on 'Connected By Pets'. As long as I'm not keeping frogs I thought this might be a possibility, however since their diet is mainly invertebrates I would not be able to have cherry shrimp...for very long at least. It was said that _'most diving beetles do not molest fishes'_ so I am curious if tetras would be safe even though I think they are small and would be targeted. There were quite a few notes on how ravenous of feeders they are and can cannibalize each other if not fed a steady diet, some things to consider. 

Some notes about them that I thought were interesting or appropriate:
-Temperature range: 70-82F, fits well with the tropical environment.
- Food: brine shrimp, fish flakes, freeze dried foods (along with other) can be shared with fish
- Grouping: may be housed with fish, snails, crayfish and larger freshwater shrimp.
- Size: 0.5-10mm / Saw a mention of someone keeping 50 in a 10gallon tank, seemed like a bit much.
- Lifespan: 2-3 years, good length of time especially if they can reproduce
- Cost: $10 each seems a bit steep for these little critters.

Any thoughts on these little guys or has anyone had any experience with these beetles?


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## herbivrus (May 28, 2014)

Man, the prices on that invertebrate site seem anywhere from a little high to outrageously high. You might try contacting Ken The Bug Guy; he doesn't have that particular beetle on his list at the moment, but he often posts things on other classified sites that aren't on his website; maybe he has them, or can point you to someone who does sell that beetle. 

I don't know what the collection laws for beetles is in CA, but the sunburst diving beetle is a native of southern CA, in slow-moving desert streams where it's apparently fairly common. If legal, maybe you can collect your own?


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*KarmaPolice's 30g Paludarium - Sunburst Diving Beetle?*



herbivrus said:


> Man, the prices on that invertebrate site seem anywhere from a little high to outrageously high. You might try contacting Ken The Bug Guy; he doesn't have that particular beetle on his list at the moment, but he often posts things on other classified sites that aren't on his website; maybe he has them, or can point you to someone who does sell that beetle.
> 
> I don't know what the collection laws for beetles is in CA, but the sunburst diving beetle is a native of southern CA, in slow-moving desert streams where it's apparently fairly common. If legal, maybe you can collect your own?


I was thinking this too, would need to do some digging on those laws, unless someone could point out where to find those laws...and some digging in the streams if they could be collected. I would have to be careful since _"Diving Beetles can bite – hard!"_. I have only seen simple crayfish in the creek in the past near me, but I probably just didn't look hard enough.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*LANTING UPDATE:*
So I ended up going shopping for a piece of furniture to hold this larger tank, I don't trust any silly low end target shelves to hold this piece. I got a nice piece and will want to end up putting doors on it to hide all the standard necessities below.
I have cycled the water a few times and finally filled up with some RO water, and will need to let the water mature for a couple days before I can add some test fish in there. I have also finally planted/pinned/strapped some nice plants into the tank. I hope you will all let me know if you think it looks off or over crowded. As i'm sure most of you have experience with, I will see what does well and what doesn't and change its placement or replace all together.

Enjoy:
Neoregelia 'Babe'
Orchid ID needed please









(Middle) Pleurothalis alata, (Bottom) Unknown Neo. (Right) Marcgravia Rectifolia *I believe* 









Dendrobium concinnum









Lepanthes calodictyon









(Top) Microsorum linguiforme, (Left) some form of lemmaphyllum?, (Right) Pleurothallis brighamii *I think*









Aechmea recurvata 'kiwi'









(Above) Pleurothallis peperomioides, (Below) Restrepia lansburgii









Licuala aurantica palm 









Microgramma heterophylla *I'm blanking on the name if thats not it*









ID please 









Lemmaphyllum microphyllum









(Middle) Bulbophyllum plumatum (jacobsonii)









FTS:
Personal favorite of top section

















& Googles automatic editing 



























Plants not individually shown:
Neoregelia 'Small Fry'
Neoregelia Olens ariel?
Iguanura tenuis Palm
Chamaedorea cataractarum palm
Sundew carnivorous plant, some small seedlings spread above in the substrate.
Leccanopteris sinuoss
Bolbitis Sionplicifolia*
Anubias SP. (Water)
Anubias barteria var. nana (Water)


I'll be looking for suggestions, when I initially planted the tank I felt it was too crowded, busy as an initial planting. I also didn't want to give up any of the cool plants, but might be forced to if they don't acclimate. I believe I want to replace one of the Neo. broms, either the center one on the end of the driftwood or the one on the very right with: "Neoregelia puactatissima V. rabra" which has a nice darker red with dark spot/stripes. I am planning on getting the low end mist king, but until then hand spraying it is.


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## AzureusRBoss (Sep 3, 2013)

What about some mossy frogs?


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

KarmaPolice said:


> ID please


_Sinningia muscicola_?


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## AzureusRBoss (Sep 3, 2013)

Some vampire crabs would be cool in this setup just not sure if its too steep.


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## AzureusRBoss (Sep 3, 2013)

But vampire crabs would love the water and climbing all over the mossy land area.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

AzureusRBoss said:


> What about some mossy frogs?





AzureusRBoss said:


> Some vampire crabs would be cool in this setup just not sure if its too steep.


I'm not familiar with mossy frogs at all, but I'm pretty sure along with the vampire crabs that their wouldn't be enough land/surface area for them to rest on, the background is pretty vertical.



Sammie said:


> _Sinningia muscicola_?


Sammie, Thanks for the ID. I'm sure if its not muscicola then its close enough.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*KarmaPolice's 30g Paludarium - Water PH?*

Does anyone want to give their experience with the PH of their water being high (alkaline) after creating a false background with greatstuff / gorilla glue?
After cycling the water tank with a few cycles of water I ended up filling my water section with RO water and bought a few of (what was advised as) hardy Platy fish. I ended up buying a small PH testing kit after 2 of the Platys died. I am unsure if the greatstuff or the gorilla glue is causing the fish to die. I did a about a 1/3 water change with the two remaining fish today and will test it again in the morning. I believe it will get better when I get my misting system in that will add a regular amount of water when misting to keep the PH down. However I would like to know if it is just time needed to leech all unwanted items out of the background or something else.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

The silicone for sure doesn't have any anti-mold ingredients ect.?


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

I was planning to at first, but in the end, I didn't end up using any silicone to make the background. Background is just greatstuff expanding foam (gaps and cracks), gorilla glue with peat moss and cocoir fiber or some such.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

KarmaPolice said:


> I was planning to at first, but in the end, I didn't end up using any silicone to make the background. Background is just greatstuff expanding foam (gaps and cracks), gorilla glue with peat moss and cocoir fiber or some such.


It looks like you used silicone on the acrylic and egg crate though, which is in the water. I only learned a few days ago that 100% silicone doesn't always mean 100% silicone


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*KarmaPolice's 30g Paludarium - Water PH?*



wriggles said:


> It looks like you used silicone on the acrylic and egg crate though, which is in the water. I only learned a few days ago that 100% silicone doesn't always mean 100% silicone


Sorry Wriggles, my mistake, totally forgot about the silicone on the skeleton of the false bottom / acylic retaining wall.
I used and have used in the past for the background of my frog tank the: GE, Silicone II 100% silicone.
From what you have read/learned is this silicone going to be poisoning the water?


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

*Re: KarmaPolice's 30g Paludarium - Water PH?*



KarmaPolice said:


> Sorry Wriggles, my mistake, totally forgot about the silicone on the skeleton of the false bottom / acylic retaining wall.
> I used and have used in the past for the background of my frog tank the: GE, Silicone II 100% silicone.
> From what you have read/learned is this silicone going to be poisoning the water?


Googling info on it has been pretty conflicting for GE II. A lot of people say they've used it for years and had no problems, and a lot say it's poisonous, with some fish death threads here and there.
From what I gathered the cure time is extremely important, as it makes ammonia while curing. Maybe there's a thick glob in the tank that had poor air exchange?
Everyone says to check if it has a mold inhibitor also, which I forgot. I've read it could be safe so long as it fully cures, but I'm not testing my luck..

In the end it gave me a headache so I just tore mine out and bought aquarium grade silicone. Hopefully someone here has more solid answers


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

*:UPDATE: KarmaPolice's 30g Paludarium*

*ICTURE UPDATE:*
I have some new tank pictures now, since a friend came over with his camera to snap some shots. Unfortunately, we were not able to take any with the main lights on, and only used the 'night light' LED mood lighting strip that's on top of the tank. They turned out pretty well considering, he might try and take some more with a different lens in the future.

I have removed a lot of the bromeliads, as much as I like them, to clear up the front of the tank and make it look less cluttered to me. I have moved some things around, but for the most part I am letting everything get acclimated to their new home. Since the last update I have finished the stand and hood for the lights/fan/mist setup, which I will post pictures for another time. I have installed a MistKing system which I am really enjoying as well.


























This has been loosing a lot of leaves in its current spot which is right next to the water, so the base/roots are constantly soaked, might try to increase the misting to make sure the leaves don't dry out. I do see some new leaf growth however, so will hope for the best.
























One of my favorite shots in this group of pictures
















Also favorite...

















Finally a few pictures of the water section:
The current inhabitants consist of 2x Mollys / 2x plecostomus? and 2x mystery snails (fish names / ID are not my specialty). I just recently got the algae eaters since the tank was getting a good amount of brown algae growth since I don't have a standard filtration system for the water, however they were very quick to clean it all up in the last couple days. I also finally found a Y-Splitter for the PVC tubing so that my pump can direct the water to both sides of the tanks outlets, creating the most water flow and movement. I have also replaced and added some plants to the water section, the newest being the floating salvinia minima, which I think will do well in this setup.

I would like to get a group of neon tetras once I know the new plecostomus* are going to be okay. I just did a water test for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and everything was at good levels. The PH is a little high at around 7.5, which might get better with more frequent water changes. I also have some pretty warm water as well around 78°F. I switched the fan in the hood to blow out instead of in, so that might keep the hood temperature down and lower the overall heat by 1° hopefully. I will ask at my local fish shop to see what small fish they would recommend for my high PH / warm water.

This is the left side, which the water feature aerates the water nicely, which I believe was a big part of why my first couple fish didn't make it.

























Now all together:


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## lucie.henderson92 (Oct 6, 2014)

Dam that's awesome


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

lucie.henderson92 said:


> Dam that's awesome


Lucie, thank you I appreciate it. 

I am just looking to fine tune the misting lengths throughout the day to make the best of it. Hopefully I can get some moss growth and will be able to update after it fills in.


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