# Sex my ole Marie's please!



## Keister

I am not quite sure this is the right section for this but I figured it was a start! I got what was sold to me as a breeding pair of ole Marie's this past weekend and I just want to confirm for my own sanity that they are in fact a male/female pair. Thankyou in advance!






Female?


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## Keister

Sorry for the double post but I can't upload two pics in one post off my phone for some reason?






Male?


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## frogface

They look like female/male to me. Is it possible to get a pic of them together from overhead?


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## Keister

Here ya go!


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## frogface

Ok still look like a pair to me. Btw, I'd give those frogs some sammiches.


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## frogfreak

lol, Kris. 

They look like a pair to me too. Strap on the feed bag! They look a lil thin...


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## Keister

Ya they were bought as a wild caught pair that was supposed to be imported just around 6-7 months ago? They have been threaded for parasites and such but I agree they are thin.


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## frogface

Where were they for that 6-7 months? With another frogger or with the importer or some wholesale middle man? If these frogs just came from the importer or middle man, I recommend a nice long QT away from the rest of your collection.


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## dartsanddragons

As stated already, looks like a pair, on the thin side. You should find out how they were treated because it does not look like it was effective, I would try to get more info on these as I don't remember any Ole Marie being Imported recently. Get some fecals done and keep them apart from any other Frogs you may have. Good luck with them. The bad eggs could be a sign of poor supplements get some Repashy feed them daily but not so much to stress them any more than they are already.


Scott


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## Keister

dartsanddragons said:


> As stated already, looks like a pair, on the thin side. You should find out how they were treated because it does not look like it was effective, I would try to get more info on these as I don't remember any Ole Marie being Imported recently. Get some fecals done and keep them apart from any other Frogs you may have. Good luck with them. The bad eggs could be a sign of poor supplements get some Repashy feed them daily but not so much to stress them any more than they are already.
> 
> 
> Scott


After some digging I have found that the pair is absolutely not wild caught. Does this still leave the possibility of them having parasites?


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## frogface

Keister said:


> After some digging I have found that the pair is absolutely not wild caught. Does this still leave the possibility of them having parasites?


Yes. They can always have parasites. Parasites are not always bad but in situations of stress or poor health, the parasite load can increase and cause problems for the frogs. I do think you should have fecal exams done on them. Really, we should all have fecal exams done on every frog we get and then again periodically throughout their life, IMO.

eta: in the case of these frogs, I think it is important to get fecals. They are thin and it appears you didn't get accurate info from the seller. Two red flags for me.


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## Keister

Am I able to send fecals to a local vet or should I send them somewhere else? Also how much does it cost to have fecals done? Also is there anything in specific that I should tell them to be testing for?


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## frogface

Look around your area for an exotic vet. Where are you located? We might be able to help you find one. Do you have agriculture in your area? If so, you likely have a Vet Pathology and Diagnostic lab to keep the commercial animals healthy. They could probably do a fecal. Some folks mail fecals to vets in other states but the fecal sample really should be fresh (my vet prefers no more than a few hours old).

Any vet should be able to do the fecal. Might need an exotic vet to get treatment. Cost seems to be around 20 bucks, give or take. My vet charges 25.

Froggers in your area should be able to help you track a source down for fecals.


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## Keister

Awesome we have an exotic animal vet through my work so I will contact him and see what he can do for me I think I am gonna leave them go for a week and see if I can't get them to pack on a little weight so they don't continue to get more stressed. I contacted the previous owner who had the pair before the guy I bought them from and he said they are fat and very active when he sold them in February. I feel as though it is a case of neglect more so then not. Hopefully that's all it is.


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## mydumname

So the person you got them from sold them as WC but they are really CB? Usually it would be the other way around.

And they were healthy in the original persons hands but not in the middle mans hands....how about that one.

See a lot of threads going up questioning frogs that all were purchased from the same source, just because someone has a table and a "company name" at a show....doesn't mean they are reputable....keep that in mind folks.


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## carola1155

yea... thats what happens when you have someone claiming to be a "breeder" while at the same time coming on here and asking people simple things like what kind of tadpole food to use... clearly if they were actually breeding all their frogs they wouldn't need to ask simple questions like that. 

Also, if you search that person's posts you can see that they pretty much only post wanted ads or sale ads... (with the exception of the tadpole food thread)

This is another case of someone flipping frogs and not being truthful about it. They appear to be saying all the things they can in order to sell the frogs, even if they aren't true.


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## frogface

I hope you will be able to turn these guys around. IMO, while they are thin, they are not so thin that they should be expected to fall over dead. I believe they can be fed back to weight as long as they are not also suffering from a high parasite load. Be patient, though. Large tincs can take a while to gain back their weight.

Consider making a vendor feedback post regarding these frogs, their weight issue, and, the false information you received from the seller.


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## markpulawski

And telling you Ole Marie's are a thinner morph of Tinc tells you this person does not have a clue of what they are talking about, just saying whatever they can to sell frogs. Please post a feedback thread, this type of info and vendor is bad for our hobby.


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## Keister

I will my friends and I are currently collecting info from other members with similar experiences so that we can be positive of our accusations. I was contacted by the seller and he is currently trying to start stuff with me and I will have no part of that. I want my name to be a good respected name that people want what I have and I don't want this to ruin it for me.....


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## IEatBugs

All you have to do is speak the truth and no one can "hate" for that unless they are on the other end. If they are on the other end, they should have been truthful and there never would have been an issue.


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## frogfreak

Back to the frogs, I have brought back frogs thinner than that no problem. In the last pic you can barely see the skull bone, which is a good thing. If the skull bone was pronounced and the legs thinner than normal, it'd be more of an issue. It also says, they haven't been underweight all that long. I'm sure they'll be fine with some TLC. 

Best of luck with them! Gorgeous frogs!


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## Keister

frogfreak said:


> Back to the frogs, I have brought back frogs thinner than that no problem. In the last pic you can barely see the skull bone, which is a good thing. If the skull bone was pronounced and the legs thinner than normal, it'd be more of an issue. It also says, they haven't been underweight all that long. I'm sure they'll be fine with some TLC.
> 
> Best of luck with them! Gorgeous frogs!


Thankyou! I love them no matter where they came from that's why I'm in this hobby the beauty of it! I feel as though they are some of the most beautiful creatures on earth and so even if he said they were cb and just didn't have the line info I would have been perfectly fine with that! Instead he lied and told me they were wc and this is where we find ourselves. TLC is my specialty because I love them along with all my other frogs and stingrays and animals. Hopefully I can turn these guys around and turn them into a successful breeding pair!


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## frogface

Keister said:


> Thankyou! I love them no matter where they came from that's why I'm in this hobby the beauty of it! I feel as though they are some of the most beautiful creatures on earth and so even if he said they were cb and just didn't have the line info I would have been perfectly fine with that! Instead he lied and told me they were wc and this is where we find ourselves. TLC is my specialty because I love them along with all my other frogs and stingrays and animals. Hopefully I can turn these guys around and turn them into a successful breeding pair!


Put me on the list! I'm going to want some froglets


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## Keister

frogface said:


> Put me on the list! I'm going to want some froglets


Absolutely! I will make you a good deal for all your help I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help and support! I will be more then happy to sell you some froglets along with anyone else who wants them!


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## frogfreak

Keister said:


> Thankyou! I love them no matter where they came from that's why I'm in this hobby the beauty of it! I feel as though they are some of the most beautiful creatures on earth and so even if he said they were cb and just didn't have the line info I would have been perfectly fine with that! Instead he lied and told me they were wc and this is where we find ourselves. TLC is my specialty because I love them along with all my other frogs and stingrays and animals.* Hopefully I can turn these guys around and turn them into a successful breeding pair!*


You'll do fine. Like I said, they're not in critical condition or anything, just looks like they need some extra luv _and food._I'd rather have CB any day over WC. WC can be far more work to get acclimated...


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## Keister

Thankyou I am still excited weather they are wc or cb or even if they were dropped off by aliens hahaha. I will do everything in my power to get these guys turned around and hopefully everything goes well! I hope everyone who wants some ole Marie's can get some from me if and when they start breeding! I am more then willing to hook people up!


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## lhu659982

Keister said:


> Thankyou I am still excited weather they are wc or cb or even if they were dropped off by aliens hahaha. I will do everything in my power to get these guys turned around and hopefully everything goes well! I hope everyone who wants some ole Marie's can get some from me if and when they start breeding! I am more then willing to hook people up!


I would ask cbreon, he is in the Harrisburg area and may know of a good vet. If you are still looking.


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## frogfreak

FF Larvae will help them to put on weight.

I use these little 4oz dipping cups. I use one tablespoon Repashy to two tablespoons boiling water. Let them cool overnight and wipe any excess condensation from the cups. Add the flies, wait three days, pop the lid off and add them to your tank. In a couple of days they'll be munching on larvae, which are high in fat. You could add a couple for your Tincs.


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## Keister

Oh awesome thankyou! You guys are being so helpful I really appreciate this more then you guys know!


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## carola1155

was doing some digging for another member and came across this:



> 2 pairs of ole Marie ( have gotten eggs but none were good)


No other mention of any wild caught "breeding" pairs of Ole Marie in any advertisements... Kinda odd that someone wouldn't list they are bringing those don't you think? I'm thinking that you just got the "story of the day" and that's what the seller believed he needed to say for you to buy them.

Kinda like the "my wife really wants these frogs" stories... and the "I always sell at least 30 frogs" stories that we've been hearing for a while now...


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## Keister

carola1155 said:


> was doing some digging for another member and came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> No other mention of any wild caught "breeding" pairs of Ole Marie in any advertisements... Kinda odd that someone wouldn't list they are bringing those don't you think? I'm thinking that you just got the "story of the day" and that's what the seller believed he needed to say for you to buy them.
> 
> Kinda like the "my wife really wants these frogs" stories... and the "I always sell at least 30 frogs" stories that we've been hearing for a while now...


Yes in messaging back and forth with him before I picked them up he just said he didn't know the line when I got to the show however it turned into oh they are wc. It's just driving me crazy all I want is the truth.


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## frogface

Keister said:


> Yes in messaging back and forth with him before I picked them up he just said he didn't know the line when I got to the show however it turned into oh they are wc. It's just driving me crazy all I want is the truth.


Not only WC but WC with a determined amout of time since import. 7 months was it?


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## Keister

frogface said:


> Not only WC but WC with a determined amout of time since import. 7 months was it?


Yes sir, he said they have been in captivity "approximately 6-7" months. I then, being new to the hobby still, asked if they have been quarantined and weather or not they were still poisonous. He then said "yes they have been in quarantine for that whole time and I could stick them in my mouth if I wanted to". I laughed and said "alrighty sounds good to me!" meaning it sounds good that they are safe and treated for parasites, not that he should stick them in his mouth.


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## frogface

So he told you they were WC and had been in captivity 6-7 months, when in reality, he only purchased them 3 months ago, as CB frogs from another breeder. Interesting...


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## jacobi

Sounds like a vendor feedback post is needed. Not here, in the vendor feedback area!


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## frogface

On further reflection, I think you should have made him put them in his mouth to prove it, lol.


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## frogface

Hey Keister, after reading the latest feedback for this vendor (and really we should have said so earlier. maybe we did and I missed it) you should make sure that you are giving them a fresh, high quality supplement with their flies. Personally, I like Repashy Calcium Plus because it's reported to be very good by people who know these things (not me), and is also an all-in-one supplement.


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## Keister

I dust with dendrocare powder that I got from black jungle not but a couple months ago every day. It is also an all in one powder with lowered vitamin A so it is safe to dust with everyday without worry of liver failure. I really really really love this powder although its hard to get ahold of because I have found that black jungle is the only place that carries it, at least to my knowledge. I really like this powder because it seems like it is steroids for dart frogs hahaha. I have been dusting with it since I got into the hobby and I love it. It seems like feeding everyday and dusting with dendrocare everyday my frogs have grown tremendously they are all super fat and seem to be very happy to eat as much as they can hahaha. Is the dendrocare powder a good supplement for them or should I change? I certainly don't know everything about darts and if it isn't as good as it seems to me then ill certainly change. I want nothing but the best for my frogs!


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## frogface

Personally, I don't know anything about it, but, I know of a few experience and knowledgeable people who use Dendrocare. Some rotate it with Repashy or other products too. 

Good to hear you are already on top of the supplements issue. Can't wait to see updated picks of these frogs looking all plump and happy


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## Keister

frogface said:


> Personally, I don't know anything about it, but, I know of a few experience and knowledgeable people who use Dendrocare. Some rotate it with Repashy or other products too.
> 
> Good to hear you are already on top of the supplements issue. Can't wait to see updated picks of these frogs looking all plump and happy


Thanks! I love dendrocare from my personal experience at least! I mean my frogs look super good to me from what I see in both their actions and their looks. They are all fat and very active and they have no problems with growing that's for sure! I have to remove some flys that are hanging out on the banana so I can add new dusted flys instead because I don't want to overwhelm the frogs and stress them out because there are too many flys hanging out in the Viv.


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## papafrogger

If you are removing flies to add new ones you may want to cut down your feeding schedule. I believe you said you feed daily? Typically if there are flies left from the previous feeding you should wait at least until the next day. Fat frogs are great, but they are programmed to gorge themselves whenever food is available. Obesity can lead to health problems.


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## imzenko

I know this might sound unusual but are you sure they are ole'.
most of what I have seen have more yellow to them. just wondering.


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## Keister

Welp today is the day that this all comes to a very sad ending. My male died today and the female is on her way out and will probably die by tomorrow. I feel so bad right now. I tried everything and did everything I could for these two but it just didn't work. They didn't eat enough to put any weight on and this week it finally is catching up with them. They started dropping what little weight they had and the male was sluggish and didn't have the energy to even stay sitting and he finally died tonight. The female is even thinner then before. I have been dusting everything that I have given them to eat. They have been given food 4 times a day from bean beetles to hydei to wax worms to springtails and melanos and every food I have and it just wasn't enough. They would eat but it was very little here and there some days were better then others. They just didn't get better. I have failed them and failed myself. I thought I could do it and bring them back but I didn't. I don't know what to do now. I feel terrible. I thought for sure I could do it but I just couldn't. I'm sorry for letting you all down it's my fault they didn't survive. I wish I could have done something more. Again I'm very sorry for letting you all down and for letting the frogs down. -Luke Keister


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## ecichlid

Luke, don't be so hard on yourself! You will be hard pressed to find someone with any sort of experience here that has not lost an animal. I hope a quality breeder, with a heart, will reach out to you and make you an offer that keeps you in the hobby. You are obviously a true frogger.


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## frogparty

That's a real shame. Sorry buddy


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## frogface

Oh no 

Hon, we all had some concerns about their weight when you first got them. It's likely that something was wrong with the frogs and has nothing to do with your care of them, at all.

It's still hard, though. I know


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## Keister

Welp I figured I would give one last update for everyone. The female finally lost her battle last night. It was so sad to watch these two just fight to hang on even when they didn't have enough strength to flatten their feet or hold their heads up. I wish this would have never happened to them. I wish I could have just done something to help them better... They just didn't have enough of an appatite to gain weight. They ate but they needed to gorge. This is one lesson I hope to never have to learn again I just wish stuff like this didnt even happen in the first place. What a shame really. I feel so bad but I tried my best and it all came to such a sad conclusion. I'm sorry I let everyone and more importantly the frogs down. What a sad way to end a thread. I'm sorry everyone and I'm sorry frogs. R.I.P. -Luke Keister


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