# Suggestions on increasing Fruit Fly culture production



## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

I have been getting ok results on fruit fly cultures somewhere between 500+ flies but I have friends who have cultures producing 1000+ flies and continues production.

I use carolina instant drosphila medium with 10 to 12 grains of bread yeast, i us mason jars with coffee filters on top...But they still dont produce, also i use mixing proportions of 1/3 cup medium to 1/2 cup distilled water. but still no production. Help.

Is it the type of yeast?

The type of Medium?

The temperature which I have the flies culturing at Which is about 65-75 F?

Is it the technique i am using?

All and All help me.

Dan 
Widmad27


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

What filler are you using? If your baker's yeast is old, that could be an issue. See below for how to proof yeast. 

I have found that mixing a little more water, like 2/3 of a cup, to help if a culture is getting too dry and hindering production. 

From eHow.com:


> To proof the yeast and make sure it's active, add one packet active dry yeast to 1/4 c. warm water (between 110 and 115 degrees F) and stir to dissolve. (The water should feel like a pleasantly warm shower, or about the temperature you'd use for a baby's bottle. If it feels uncomfortably hot, it will probably kill the yeast.) Add one teaspoon of sugar and let the yeast sit for five minutes. If the yeast is foamy and smells like bread, it's active.


You don't need to make the mixture that large to see if your yeast is good, but you should have the ratio of the ingredients pretty close.


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

You might try making your own media. It is cheaper (no shipping) and you have more control over what goes into it.

A good standard recipe is:

6 parts instant potato flakes (some people use 8 )
1 part powdered sugar
1 part brewers yeast
4 teaspoons of methylparaben (mold inhibitor)

Mix all of these dry ingredients in a large bowl. Then store in a large 1 gallon ziplock bag until you are ready to use.

To make cultures: 

Microwave your culture cups or jars and lids for 1 minute to destroy any bacteria (most anyway). Put 1/3 cup of media in cup. Add 1/2 cup of pre-heated RO or distilled water; 110 degrees. (heated water disolves ingredients easier. If water was too hot, you may have to put cups in freezer until cool enough for flies.) Sprinkle no more than 10 or 15 grains of active yeast on top of media (any more than this and the yeast will put off too much CO2 and kill off the flies before they lay eggs.) Put together 5-8 large (restaurant size) coffee filters and fold in half twice until you have a pie wedge, cut the tip of the wedge off so flies can pass through and put this into the cup on top of the media with tip pointing up. Now place 50 young, adult flies in the cup and put on the lid and store with good ventilation at 75-80 degrees. Below 75 will slow down production.

Many people (including myself) are using orange juice or grapefruit juice (instead of water) to enhance the production. ( Don't forget to delete the methylparaben if you use juice as the acid in the fruit acts as a mold inhibitor). 
Also a "power mix" of yeast, which is when you take 1/2 to 1 cup of water and heat it to 100-110 degress (no more, or it will kill the yeast), add a few teaspoons of sugar and 1/2 teaspoon of active yeast (less if you are doing less than 6 cultures) and let it stand for 15 minutes. It will foam up from the yeast doing it's thing. Add this mix to the orange or grapefruit juice and then add to dry mix as you did in the above recipe. This process actually makes the media in the culture "rise" to double it's normal depth, thus feeding the flies for a longer period of time.

Many are having good luck with this, but I am not. My problem is that living in Colorado at a higher altitude, oxgen is already at a premium so the slightest amount of this "power mix" of yeast creates a deadly amount of CO2 for my flies. So until I get just the right amount of active yeast figured out, this is still in the experimental stage for me. If I just sprinkle 10 grains on top of the media I am fine, it is just the "power mix" that does not work for me.

Good luck


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I keep my flies at 73/4 - 77 or so. It is in the "boiler room" of my house so the temperature is fairly even.

I know my production is at least 50% higher than it was when I kept the flies out in my frog room. My frog room has a 10+ degree temperature drop overnight.

I do make my own fruit fly media as well. It is the "flax seed / Oatmeal" recipe that is popular out in the Washington area (I think).

s



widmad27 said:


> ... The temperature which I have the flies culturing at Which is about 65-75 F?


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Scott,
Can you post this recipe? I am not sure if I have heard of that one!!


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## Axeslinger (Sep 6, 2006)

When I add beer instead of water directly to the FF medium I get larger yields of FF's.

Usually when you add the beer directly to the FF medium it bubbles up and becomes porous(not sure if it has anything to do with creating more area). 


Good luck


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

--Full Batch
6 cups water
2 cups flax seeds
-- boil until very thick 

1 2 lb jar applesause
2 tsp methyl paraben
1 cup honey
3/4 cup vinegar
3/4 cub brewers yeast
1 cup corn meal
--combine and heat over very low heat

-- add:
5 - 6 cups of oatmeal
-- cook briefly. Stir or blend in flax seed.

--Half Batch
3 cups water
1 cups flax seeds

1 lb jar applesauce
1 tsp methyl paraben
1/2 cup honey
3/8 cup vinegar
3/8 cup brewers yeast
1/2 cup corn meal
--combine and heat over very low heat

-- add:
2 ½ to 3 cups of oatmeal
-- cook briefly. Stir or blend in flax seed.

That’s the recipe “as written”. 

What I do:
1) I always make ½ batches.
2) I use 25 oz jars of applesauce
3) I use ½ cup of brewers yeast
4) I add the corn meal to the entire mix, not to the applesauce part. Corn meal clumps under heat – so I only add it after taking the mix off of heat.
5) 1/2 Batch makes enough media for 40ish 32 oz media cups (for me anyhow).


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## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

Here is a link to a good post as well. good luck.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... t=matychuk


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

I wonder why they call for vineagar when there is already methylparaben in the recipe? They are both mold inhibitors.

Sounds like a lot of trouble to go to for a recipe. Thanks though, it is good to know all the options.[/quote]


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

No idea on the vinegar. The flax seed "thickens" the water. It acts as a base for the rest of the ingrediants.

I have to say I've done better with this mix than anything else I've ever used. I've used quite a few of them and this is the only thing I've done now for the last 3 years.

It's a bit of a pain - I make it every other week and refrigerate the leftover.

But it works.

s


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

1. I also use scott's suggested recipe and it works better for me than some of the other common DIY recipes.

2. Using excelsior or coco coir fiber instead of coffee filters will increase production.

3. Opting out of the methy paraben will increase production also...and I find I dont need it anyway as I am using the before mentioned 'cooked' recipe which has less mold issues for me.

4. Warmth.

5. Fresh yeast (refrigerate between usage), or better yet sour dough starter mix....!!

6. start all cultures with young ff's (the nice big plump ones from the first week of a culture bloom)

S


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

oohh...that was my post # 666

I would therefore suggest you disregard everything said in that post :wink: 

S


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## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I agree with Shawn......disregard everything he said :lol: :lol: :lol: 

One more issue is which type of FF are you using because different strains have different production levels, you may need to find a FF that produces better for your conditions and recipe that you go with.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

thanks David...

[...Secretly hoping you have a cold, wet, icey winter  ] 

S


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

sports_doc said:


> 2. Using excelsior or coco coir fiber instead of coffee filters will increase production.
> 
> S


Totally disagree...unless you are talking exclusively about this mix.

With the "Chris Miller power mix" that I usually use, I get at least twice as many flies than with excelsior.

At MWFF, some of the guys were talking about a wider than normal strand of excellsior, that they say is way better than the more common stuff.
I think they also said ED's switched to selling that variety recently also.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Dancing frogs said:


> [quote="sports_doc":2z4i5tjf]
> 2. Using excelsior or coco coir fiber instead of coffee filters will increase production.
> 
> S


Totally disagree...unless you are talking exclusively about this mix.

With the "Chris Miller power mix" that I usually use, I get at least twice as many flies than with excelsior.

At MWFF, some of the guys were talking about a wider than normal strand of excellsior, that they say is way better than the more common stuff.
I think they also said ED's switched to selling that variety recently also.[/quote:2z4i5tjf]
Well I am so glad you TOTALLY DISAGREE...so nice of you to say.  

Brian, with your mix you are using what instead of excelsior or coco fiber? coffee filters? something else to suggest instead to help Dan....

S


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Well, I hope you didn't think I was being mean about it...
Just trying to say I have exactly the opposite experience.

I use coffee filters, the cheap unbleached basket type...I accordian fold them, then fold that in half and put the bottom crease in the media, so it sticks up like a V...repeat till there is no more room for more folded papers (in my experience 15-20 papers). It is crucial that you leave no room for the papers to fall to, as when the papers get moist, then they get the weight of the larvae and pupae on them, they will collapse, and probably do more harm than good.

This method takes much more time than using excelsior (takes around a half hour to 45 minutes for my usual batch of 7-10 cultures), but in my experience, I only need half as many cultures than with excellsior...and I still have flies left over.

I need to give that wider excelsior a shot, as I have better things to do than fold papers.
With the common thin excelsior, I rarely see any pupae on the fibers.


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

Thanks Guys, ok so as a recap temps between 73 and 77 is good, Put some more surface area into the culture such as excellsior or coffee filters, and sport_doc i use Melagaster wingless flightless...


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

That sounds good Dan
Give that cooked recipe a try sometime, it works well even if it is a bit labor intensive.

Best to ya,

Shawn


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

thanks much Sport_doc have a good one, and if you get other ideas post more...


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## siples (Aug 14, 2004)

*Wide strand excelsior*

I have been trying the wide strand I have found that it gets very sloppy almost like a wet noodle, where the fine stuff stays fluffy and generally fairly stiff. The flys seemed to like it though, I got great yields it was just a little harder to get them out, just my experience.
Kieth


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

Just bought excelsior from Michael's Craft store, and it is fine strand so i am going to give that a try...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Typically the first limiting item to ff production in cultures is protien. This is why a number of recipes include the use of brewers (aka nutritional) yeast. The addition of this yeast increases the protien content of the media and should increase the amount of the flies produced. 

Freshness of the baker's yeast (live yeast) isn't really as big a deal as the flies are going to be carrying yeast on their feet from the previous culture. The main reason it is added to the culture to to decrease the risk of contamination by establishing a yeast as opposed to a different microbial agent. 

Ed


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

Thanks for that advice Ed...Have you used carolina media or do you make your own...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I use the Carolina Media cut with my own mix with good success (I got the tip from Mike Shromm). 

I use 8 cups of potato flakes, 1/2 cup brewer's yeast, 1 cup of powdered sugar, and about 2 tablespoons spirulina to 8 cups of Carolina media. 

If you start using a recipe, try to keep with it for at least three or four generations of flies as the yeasts carried on the flies feet will adapt to your culturing media. The flies will also adapt to some extent to the culturing methods. 

Ed


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I use flax seed meal. Darren Meyer recommended it for hydei especially. I have had fantastic results. I believe it is due to the amounts of omega 3 which is a beneficial protein.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "omega 3 which is a beneficial protein."endsnip

It is a fatty acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acids) but if I have read it correctly flaxseed contains about 20% protien. 

Ed


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

^
Is that bad? Why the 'but'?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It isn't bad. 
Typically at least with D. melanogaster one of the primary limiting items with production is the protien content of the media. Given that the flax seed has a decent protein content, this may be the item that is causing the difference in production. 
With D. hydei, there could be a essential amino acid imbalance that is being supplied in a greater amount with the flax seed (its the limiting item in the media). This would easily cause production to increase. 

Ed


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

Alright to continue this thread, another question, i know temp is everything when it comes to fruit flies and well my house has been pretty much lacking in that respect, most nights i have a temp variance of 10 F, so any ideas on were i can get a cheap incubator or would a rubber made with an exoterra hot pack on the bottom do the trick, and one note my house is set at 76 F constant but the house its self, let just say it is old...Thanks in advance for any advice you give.


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

If you have your thermostat set at 76 (that's hot!!) that is fine for FF and even an old house has to have at least one room that is truly 76 degrees, maybe your furnace room.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Often the lights above the tanks will provide sufficient heat for the ffs. As long as the temps get warm enough during the day, you will still get good production, it just takes a little longer which can usually be addressed by adjusting the rate at which you make new cultures. 

Ed


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## widmad27 (Aug 9, 2006)

So you don't feel making an incubator would help, i dont know i just need better production with 7 frogs to take care of. The smallest room we have that maybe close to 76 would be a broom closet with shelves, but there is not much ventilation in there, otherwise what is the prefered temp for best production be.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

In the winter time, my thermostate ends up being set at 68 F. In the room where I keep the frogs, the temp during the day can get into the mid to upper 70s due to the lights but at night the temperatures drops down to 62-69 (from ceiling to floor). I keep the cultures on the top shelf in the room where I keep the frogs. In the winter time with the lower temperatures which increases the length of time to maturation in the culture, I make a smaller number of cultures twice a week. 

I am not sure why people are equating cultures that produce lots of flies as being the best for the frogs... 
Larval density in the culture can play a significant role in the end size of the adult flies. So you may be producing a thousand flies and the size of the adult fly is smaller than a culture that produces less flies. As each fly is basically spherical in shape (several balls attached to one another), the ratio of chitin to the rest of the fly increases by the cube of the change in volume of the fly (so even a slightly smaller fly has significantly more chitin to other items (like fat etc). 

For some basics on this see Lefranc, Agnes,; Bundgaard, J.; 2000, Controlled variation of body size by larval crowding in Drosophilia melanogaster; Dro. Inf. Serv. 83:171-174

Ed


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