# Spindly Leg Syndrome incidence?



## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

For those of you who have been breeding PDFs for over a year, what incidence of SLS do you see? I know that seasoned hobbyists tend to say the SLS is largely preventable with proper husbandry, but I'm curious how low is possible. Please only vote if you've been keeping for over a year and feel experienced, otherwise vote for the last option. Anyone should feel free to post their experiences here, such as species variation.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I seems to notice a almost seasonal occurrence of this with some parents. Other I have never had it at all.

This thread has me interested to see what they are using on the other side of the pond.


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## steelheader (Oct 25, 2008)

I'm very interested in this thread also. I'm a new breeder and it's my biggest worry. It's going to be hard for me to euthanize one when it happens. To bad you can't tell right away


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

ok...i havent technically BRED PDF's quite a whole year yet, just under....kept yes. i have morphed out what i have bred which are in the tinctorius group/auratus with no sls whatsoever, and have morphed out atleast a hundred rana pipiens for college....and i'd say the same with bull frogs....i would say that 5% of those morphed out with sls though they don't pertain to PDF's. I quarantine like a mad woman now that i keep poison darts almost exclusively minus my sons firebellytoads, so i havent concentrated on breeding as my main focus until quarantine and fecals have passed asn protocols etc. this is my standpoint. some have bred in larger quarantines yes, very often, but in saying that i just let the eggs go as quarantine being my main focus. sorry i am not that seasoned bud.thought i'd comment on the post kristy


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Young parents also seems to produce more SLS than more mature parents in my experience.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i believe the new issue of leaf litter from twi/asn had a discussion of sls in it? did you read it bud? kristy


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

I think it depends on as kyle said the age of the frog, but also the species, some frogs breed faster and more often, but have greater % of spindly leg froglets, and vis- versa. I have only breed Vents so far, and out of my first 6 or so only 1 has actually come out fine, and 1 more is looking good. 

And then again,( don't want to go into what causes SLS, but) it can also depend on the temps, food, all of those variations, unfortunately if you are doing one thing or 10 things wrong it is hard to know, what is causing it.

But for me it has been over 50 % SLS.


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

anyone else seem to get a few more sls in summer? 
craig


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I've had very few with my azureus pair. But I was having more than a few when I got some thumbs and they started breeding, mainly front legs. I fixed mine with a change in the diet of the tad thumbs. I switched them off flake food to tadpole bites and frozen bloodworms. It's been over a year and I can't recall the last case of SLS I had. DAMN............I hope I didn't just jinx myself


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

How do you feed the bloodworms? Just scrape off a little and put it in with the tad? I only have experience feeding whole cubes to larger animals.
-mark


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

i had only one spindly auratus out of the froglets that i have raised out of my entire collection. excluding the trio of bl vents i had, from juvisi to about 1.5yrs old. i got one good froglet for every 20 tads one of the most frustrating groups of frogs Ive ever owned. i would definitely say it has allot to do with species and age.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

markbudde said:


> How do you feed the bloodworms? Just scrape off a little and put it in with the tad? I only have experience feeding whole cubes to larger animals.
> -mark


I thaw them out in a cup of water and then rinse them a few times using a small fine strainer. I use a small spoon to scoop a few out at a time and dump them in the tad container.


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

i have had sls froglets in every one of my solarte- they are a very young pair so i am sure they will get things right..
I also have a group of seven gl lamasi - and i have gotten 1 frog with sls and every other one morphed has been good..


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I get the frozen cubes from the fish/pet store and will pop one out. Then pop one out into a petri dish and feed a few off at a time using tweezers. 

Don't overfeed them. It is hysterical watching them eat them, looks like they are eating spaghetti.



markbudde said:


> How do you feed the bloodworms? Just scrape off a little and put it in with the tad? I only have experience feeding whole cubes to larger animals.
> -mark


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

I was wondering, do THMs( trihelomethanes) have anything to do with the reason chlorine, can cause sls in froglets?

I am learning about that in school, and wondered if anyone has looked into it...


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

ok, maybe that killed the post... :0


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

Well we can spend all day guessing about possible risk factors for SLS. I think it's fairly well accepted that proper nutrition of the parents is important, and many, many other things can potentially increase incidence. The purpose of this thread is just to try and understand how controllable it is for experienced breeders.


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## Serpentia (Nov 24, 2008)

I am not a PDF breeder but I doing a research project on SLS for submission to the Journal of Herpetology . I am currently working with the Tulsa Zoo and there PDF collection where to occurrence in auratus is about 7 to 10%. They are not breeding at this time and I really need a tadpole/froglet with SLS to send off for histology. If anyone has an occurrence I would really appreciate the specimen. Also if anyone has any info that would be beneficial I would appreciate it.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

The strongest evidence I have that points to something lacking in the parents is with surrogate pumilio. I had a pair of bastimentos pumilio raise 3 tadpoles, 2 were bastis and 1 was a blue jeans tadpole. The bastimentos pumilio morphed out perfect and the blue jeans tadpole was spindly. Obviously they all ate the same thing. That being said the same blue jeans parents later produced healthy froglets. Certainly one of the bigger mysteries in the hobby.


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## NathalieB (Apr 23, 2007)

I have never ever had a frog morph out with sls.

I've been breeding tinctorius, auratus, tricolor and pumilio for some time now and they either don't make it as a tadpole (often when accidently overfeeding) or they morph out fine.

most of my breeding animals were bought as froglets so it's not an age thing ... I guess I have been very lucky


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

I'd choose for 0% if I could but a had to choose 0%-5%....

I haven't seen SLS in the last couple hundred (1000 maybe?) offspring that I had in the last 2,5 years


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