# 1st "Rock wall" Exo-terra palu.... pic heavy.



## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Ok so after checking out Devanny's viv and a few others on here, I decided to tackle a rock wall myself. For the water fall I cut poly foam used in seat cushions into general rock shapes and hot glued them in place. 

I then sprayed GS for Windows and doors (blue can) on either sides of the water fall to hold a few pieces of malysian driftwood and plastic planters. For smaller planters I used small plastic shot cups.

What I aim to accomplish is a corner concrete background overlooking the pool which will cover the majority of the bottom. 

This is where I'm at so far so questions, comments and concerons are all welcomed.







full view







front







side







waterfall detail


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## Youngherp420 (May 3, 2011)

wow looking good so far. I just did my first rock backing and loving it, Also starting a new rock water fall soon. What type of pump are you using


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

What are you plnning to keep in this? I assume it's not darts, since there will be no land area..

Mark


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Are you planning to put peat on the great stuff and just concrete in the rocks? I thonk that is a great idea


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

> wow looking good so far. I just did my firstrock backing and loving it, Also starting a new rock water fall soon.What type of pump are you using


 Thanks Young. As of right now I have an old ZooMed 501 that I'm debating on using. I think I might go with a larger canister filter due to the height of the enclosure and stand when I get one. The tank has been drilled so everything will be external except for the aquarium heater for the water feature. 


> What are you plnning to keep in this? I assume it's not darts, since there will be no land area..


 No darts yet, I looking into a small, colorful species of tree frogs and maybe some vampire crabs and shrimp down below. The pool will also be planted so it may end up being a marsh.


> Are you planning to put peat on the great stuff and just concrete in the rocks? I thonk that is a great idea


 Beth my original plan was to concrete the GS also, but I have thought about finishing it with peat, coco fiber and jungle moss. I know if I finished it the latter way I would have to finish and cure the waterfall then allow the GS to dry completely. I think for the sake of simplicity I'm going to concrete everything and hope it turns out nice.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

diggenem said:


> Thanks Young. As of right now I have an old ZooMed 501 that I'm debating on using. I think I might go with a larger canister filter due to the height of the enclosure and stand when I get one. The tank has been drilled so everything will be external except for the aquarium heater for the water feature.
> No darts yet, I looking into a small, colorful species of tree frogs and maybe some vampire crabs and shrimp down below. The pool will also be planted so it may end up being a marsh.
> Beth my original plan was to concrete the GS also, but I have thought about finishing it with peat, coco fiber and jungle moss. I know if I finished it the latter way I would have to finish and cure the waterfall then allow the GS to dry completely. I think for the sake of simplicity I'm going to concrete everything and hope it turns out nice.



Mixing crabs and frogs isn't a good idea...
Frogs...especially tree frogs like to sit in the water and absorb the water 
I'm sure at some point a frog will get attacked by the crabs...
I wouldn't mix crabs with anything.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Didn't think of that Dragon... I thought Vamps would be ok due to their small size and I figured the tree frogs would stay higher up out of the crabs reach.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

They sure aren't darts...but a group of firebellies would be neat to watch...and I have some Endler Live Bearers in the water portion of the paladarium...having some "sunning rocks" that could be covered in a low growing moss would be a good spot for the firebellies...Since the firebellies have some toxins on their skin, make sure to not handle too much...they don't bother the fish at all. I have emerging plants, part under, part over the water...you have to consider how you could feed crickets to whatever frogs you choose...they drown pretty quickly unless they have a land mass...good luck...love the spillway for the waterfall...keep us posted


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Thanks Judy. I've kept firebellies in the past in a vertical set-up similiar to this one... Needless to say no cricket ever lost its life due to drowning.... FBT's are voracious eaters. What surprised me the most about them is that they climbed the near vertical bg surprising well and they spent a lot of time near the top of the tank. I hope the spill way turns out how I plan I want to plant it with dwarf anubias and maybe java moss.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Ok so yesterday I stopped by Home Depot to pick up some concrete but they had the whole concrete isle blocked off. Luckily there is a Lowes five mins up the road so I paid them a visit and picked up a 10lbs page of Quikcrete mortar. So tonite I began applying a extremely runny mix to the poly blocks of the waterfall, and this is how it came out.

















I was a lil hesitant about using mortar because I couldn't find many tuts on applying it but from what I have seen from vivs built with concrete it actually looks the same IMO.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

okay...I'll bite...what is the blue material covering? I really, really like the appearance of the stones...they look particularly authentic...more so than carving GS...explain more how you shaped them, etc. and how you stacked them...looking so good. Are they on a GS background, a seperate piece of styro, what...?? Are you going to have to go thru the soaking phase to change the pH?? Explanation of the plumbing, etc.???


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

You pretty much made my day Judy! Now I'm no expert at this at all and its a lil experimenting mixed with a lot of trial and error. 

The blue stuff is actually painters tape that I wrapped and covered the driftwood with to keep it from getting covered in concrete. 







The foam that I used comes in a 2'x2' block and its about 3" thick. I got mines from Hobby Lobby and it was about $4. I cut the block into many smaller blocks over the course of 2 days while watching tv or whenever I found the time.







Instead of leaving the blocks well blocky, I cut off the sharp edges. I tried to be very random in the sizes and shapes. To build the waterfall I started at the bottom hot gluing the larger pieces directly to the glass and worked my way up. I tried to be random in my placement as well. Some pieces I didn't glue but just jammed them between other pieces to create depth. Now the next time I do a build like this I will actually use the pink styrofoam sheets as a foundation instead of gluing the blocks directly on the glass. 

One thing I did notice with the mortar is that it is very gritty and the sand flakes off when you rub it and I really don't like that so I will probably use an acrylic fortifier or floor leveling cement in the next coats to try to get a smoother finish. Of course cement, mortar, grout etc. has a very high PH so I'm going to soak the whole tank in my bathtub with water and vinegar to help cure it. 

As far as the plumbing go all equipment will be external and I have already drilled the tank to accomodate this. I have a Zoomed 501 canister filter for turtle tanks but will probably go with something larger to better control water flow and to inject CO2. I used to keep planted aquariums and I believe vivs and palus would benefit from CO2. There are many mods I have planned for this build but I don't want to bore you all at once, but they include modding the stock screen top and a DIY CO2 reactor.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Vampire crabs and other Geosesarma prefer having land as well, so they wouldn't be a great choice for this viv. You could probably get away with some cherry shrimp or similar... I'd stay away from CRS though, it's harder to manipulate water quality/parameters with the water feature leaching stuff into the main pond. Either way, you probably won't see much of the shrimp unless you're doing constant water changes due to tannins tinting the water brown.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

> Vampire crabs and other Geosesarma prefer having land as well, so they wouldn't be a great choice for this viv.You couldprobably getaway with some cherry shrimp or similar... I'd stay away from CRS though, it's harder to manipulate water quality/parameters with the water feature leaching stuff into the main pond. Either way, you probably won't see much of the shrimp unless you're doing constant water changes due to tannins tinting the water brown.


 what is CRS exactly? I plan on getting a stump shaped piece of driftwood to create a land area in the water feature so if I chose land crabs they would have a place to dry their feet. As far as the concrete I'm not worried about it leaching chemicals once its properly cured. Zoos use concrete for their enclosures all the time


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Crystal Red Shrimp, if you don't have prior experience with them, I would definitely recommend keeping them separately first.. they can be super picky about water quality/parameters.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Ahh I'm slow. No I would give CRS their own tank filled with Christmas moss covering every square inch of it, ghost shrimp however I would put in to act as a clean up crew along with MTS.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Am hoping to find those blocks at our local Michael's...no Hobby Lobby here...are the 2 x 2 blocks hard like styro, or soft??? I have used the acrylic bonding liquid along with several different colored grout mixes..the Latircrete brand. I still ended up using marine epoxy on the bottom edges and back, as well as the waterfall area just to avoid the colors being affected after painting those areas with acrylic paint. To lesson the gloss, I did use colored sand here and there..and superglued some small aquarium stones....stuff like that. That sort of "landscaping" is truly fun...as well as the plants of course...ah, then there are the frogs!!


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

*Re: 1st "Rock wall" ZooMed palu.... pic heavy.*

It's soft poly foam, somewhat like memory foam. Our local michaels only carry the green fake plant styrofoam So good luck on that. I was kindof worried about the quikrete mortar until last night well early this morning I was searching on an aquarium forum and a lot of aquarium keepers use mortar with their builds and most with no additives, so with that new found info I slopped on another running coat. I didn't take any pics because it looks exactly the same as the first coat but I have notice that most of the rocks are hard while the one next to it might still be crumbly. The "stones" that are hard reminds me of granite and since I live next to the largest piece of granite above ground, I'm just going to stain themwashed out hues of earth tone colors. I want to redo the GS part but I probably shouldn't, but what will be another alternative? Also do you have any pics of your build Judy? Also there was an error in the title of my thread, the tank is actually a Zoomed not exo terra.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

soft foam...ohhh. that's why the "edges" are really not hard, sharp edges...interesting that even side-by-side that one would be hard, the other crumbly...The acrylic hardener might help to stiffen the cementious coating...are you concerned about washing away of any other waterfall area??? From what I've tried, and see...there is no "perfect" way to do it...and with all our efforts to create an authentic appearance...we hope that eventually it will all have moss and vines on it!!! I don't have a camera...don't have time to read the instructions even on my cell phone or answering machine....am too busy on DB...!!


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## EntoCraig (May 17, 2011)

Dang, I thought I was pretty creative, but I love running into new ideas and styles on here! well done!


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

> Dang, I thought I was pretty creative, but I love running into new ideas and styles on here! well done!


 Thanks Ento! This website actually fueled the idea.



> softfoam...ohhh. that's why the "edges"arereallynot hard,sharp edges...interesting that even side-by-side that one would be hard, the other crumbly...The acrylic hardener might help to stiffen thecementious coating...areyou concerned aboutwashing away of any other waterfall area??? From what I've tried, and see...there is no "perfect" way to do it...and with allourefforts to create an authentic appearance...wehopethateventually it will allhavemossand vineson it!!! I don't have a camera...don't have time to read the instructions even on my cell phone or answering machine....am too busy on DB...!!


 yes I definitely hope all my hard work gets covered in moss and vines 
I think when I put a thick coat down it would be pretty solid after it completely cures. I was wondering though could I use an acrylic fortifier on the last coat and what would be its effects well besides fortifying?


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i like the rocks. they look great!! Are you gonna grout the gs too?
I like the soft foam because carving the hard stuff sucks but worry about soaking up water!! Is that a problem you think? 

I'm planning on trying some soft foam in the alien viv anyway. I can make some weird shapes with that ;-)


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Thanks Beth! Nope no mortar on the gs. My wife likes the last "mud bank" build I did, so I'm going to titebond it. I kind of did a hybrid method with it. I mixed up organic soil, peat, and jungle moss up with titebond til it was the consistency of cold syrup and the slapped it on thick on top of gs. Right after I slapped some dry organic mix ontop of the glue before it dried. You have to really press down a lot of it but it will stick when it dries but it takes about 2 weeks to completely dry. 

As far as the foam soaking up water I don't think it will be a problem as long as the mortar does its job.
This build has taken a few steps away from my original idea as I am a learn as you go type of person. 
Also found a very nice stand for it and best of all it was free. Photos on the next major update.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

what did you use to "cut" the foam??? The fortifier also helps in bonding the cement in the layers you are using...did you also put a Titebond layer down first, then your organic mix???/ How long before it started to make moss??


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I used a regular pair of scissors to cut the foam...it was a little difficult cutting blocks off the main sheet but a better pair of scissors would do it easier.

The viv were I used the titebond I mixed the substrate in with the titebond and after I laid it I pressed more substrate in it but with more jungle moss than soil. The moss never sprouted new growth despite daily mistings. There is a pic of it below. It was the exo terra brand that comes in compressed bricks. Besides java I really dont know anthing about moss. I do want some moss growing in this build, what do you recommend?


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Get some Java Moss from a vendor. Chop it up and put it on the places that have all the dead moss sticking out. Keep the tank super humid for a few weeks and youll see it sprout. The JavaMoss will grow well on the BrickMoss that you got. That BrickMoss wont come back alive.
Also, put some Java on that wood in the water. Itll grow well there too.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

wow so far i like the feel of this one, look forward to seeing it finished.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

No luck finding "soft" styro...but did buy a couple of the pool "noodles" at Goodwill...they will probably work...and if not, I wasted $2...I really liked the look of your stacked stones...there are some sites for buying different mosses..getting a combo and putting them in a blender, or coffee grinder and incorporating them into the silicone/peat mix should give them a start...


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Thanks Judy! Well after about 2 thick coats of mortar the waterfall looks more like a hardened mudslide or lava flow....I actually like the way it looks though it has a lot of books and crannies I could place anubias. Also I appreciate the info on the moss, I will try that method even though I'm using titebond. I hope I can get it to grow with the hybrid titebond method. I'm eager to finish this build but I lost my suck @%! job so I have to progress a lil slower than I first intended.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Just a pic update of waterfall, sorry about the poor quality my EVO didn't want to act right


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I think it looks terrific...do you have concerns about the color wearing away?? Java moss alongside the water would look really good...it needs moisture and light...will spread if it likes the environment. Oak leaf creeping fig would be fabulous creeping up on the walls...Black Jungle has it I think...and other places as well...check the sponsor sites. It doesn't "take over" like the other forms of creeping fig...and has a smaller, more attractive leaf form. How did you install the pump system?? If you mounted the "rocks" right on the glass, how/where is the hose coming from to empty the water over the rocks?? Sorry about the job...


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

> I think it looks terrific...do you have concerns about the color wearing away?? Javamossalongside the water would look really good...it needs moisture and light...will spread if it likes the environment. Oak leaf creeping fig would be fabulous creeping up on the walls...Black Junglehasit I think...and other places as well...check the sponsor sites. It doesn't "take over" like the other forms of creeping fig...and hasa smaller,more attractiveleaf form. How did you install the pump system?? If you mounted the "rocks" right on the glass, how/where is the hose coming from to empty the water over the rocks?? Sorry about the job...


No I'm not concerned by the time it wears away it should be covered in algae or covered with creeping fig. Unfortunately the gs on the left side seperated from the glass completely in the middle so I decided to just go ahead and extend the waterfall into a rockwall and create more land area at the bottom to make this build more dart friendly. 

To answer your question, the waterfall is going to powered by a canister filter. I drilled two holes one at the top of the waterfall and one at the bottom of the pond. Bulkheads will control the flow of water. No pumps and no hoses. There will be a strainer in the pond to get the gunk out. I'll take a pic to show you better what I'm talking.

Oh yes I have Black Jungle bookmarked I also found a pretty good brom site too I think its
Bromiliadsnsuch.com


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

ya...I'd really like to see a sketch or something...sounds like the way you're doing it will use less floor space..my tanks are not drilled...but the Exos have a two part lid with a living hinge holding them together...so I can install fans, etc. Three of the others are vertical conversions I made...they really need better air circulation--I just haven't figured out how to do it...the vents have a material that prevents FF from escaping, but they also don't let in enough fresh air...damnit.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

> ya...I'd really liketo seea sketch or something...sounds like the way you're doing it will use less floor space..my tanks are not drilled...but theExoshavea two partlid with a living hingeholding them together...so I can install fans, etc. Three of the others are vertical conversions I made...they really need better air circulation--I just haven't figured out how to do it...the vents have a material that prevents FF from escaping, but they also don't let in enough fresh air...damnit.


 I plan on replacing the screen on the zoo-med top with a piece of glass. I have a sheet of glass from an old coffee table that would fit perfectly but its tempered so I might have to order a sheet from somewhere. Basically I want it drilled in the middle to mount a 92mm pc fan and in the front for misting nozzles. 

On another note I tore out the GS replaced it with foam blocks and started coating them with mortar. I had to rebuild parts of the waterfall because some of it came out with the GS. I actually like it better now as a full rock wall even though I lost a couple spots for planters. 








Side view








Front view. You can see where the tank is drilled in the back in the bottom center of the tank.sorry about the crappy photos I can't find the battery for my camera.


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## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

how did you get the rocks to look less "box like"? In your first pictures they looked just like the styrofoam pieces you cut out but the last pictures showed that the rock seems to be less jagged. Did you just do multiple coats?

Great looking tank by the way!


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

> how did you get the rocks to look less "box like"? In your first pictures they looked just like the styrofoam pieces you cut out but the last pictures showed that the rock seems to be less jagged. Did you just do multiple coats? Great looking tank by the way!


 yea I did a series of multiple thick coats. The mortar was the consistency of pudding and I just layered it randomly. My sculpting skills suck so I did it that way to get some variations. It came out pretty good in my opinion and created a lot of nooks and crannies. Thanks for the compliment.


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## MollyAttack (Sep 24, 2011)

This might be a stupid question, but could you have shoved some planters in between the "rocks" if you wanted to?

Nice wall. Looks really good.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Well I could have hotglued them to the glass and then glue the foam around them. The issue for me is that the mesh planters I have take up to much space. There are nooks and crannys where I can shove plant roots and moss in.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

**update**

Ok so today I finally went over my best friend's parents' house and picked up this
























Yes a sink. A very nice sink. This thing is heavy too. I believe it has a porcelain top but I'm not sure, its definitely not wood. My friend's dad was actually going to sell it at his up coming yard sale but he let me have it for FREE. Forget giving a pet store $100+ for a stand half as nice. So I loaded it in the back of Scarface II (my Pacifica) hauled it home and went to work removing the bowl and water fixture. It was actually pretty easy and took me about 5 mins. 

















The tank fits it perfectly with about 1/2" space left on the front and the back and completely covers the 2 holes. 









As for the tank its self I decided to redo the GS to add more planting pockets and surface. I think I'm going to make some vines to add to this area to give it a more unique look and extra climbing space. But first things first I have to wait for the GS to cure then trim it down. I also picked up a piece of mopani to add to the pond. 








Tomorrow I think ill head to my grand mother's house and collect some magnolia leaves. She has three large ones in her yard so free leaf litter. I will be adding it to the pond.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Just a real quick update....

Got around to applying spaghnum peat moss and Titebond III to the rest of the bg. I started off by saturating the peat with water and then mixed in the Titebond until it was the consistency of cake batter. I then spread it over the foam. Unlike the silicone method there is no need to rush this because it takes a long, long time to dry. After I had the foam completely covered I pressed the dry peat in straight out the bag and packed it down. Here are the pics....


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i really like the rock wall with the dirt wall. Looks good!! 

I too am not a silicone fan. Gorilla glue all the way - although I will try titebond since people seem to be having luck with it!


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Thanks. I was kindof iffy about it at first, but I like it. I couldn't find Gorrilla Glue in a bottle big enough so I went ahead and went with the titebond. The one with the green top and labor is the one I used and is suppose to be completely water-proof. 








It was super easy to coat the GS and it only took me about 5 mins to complete the entire step. I also feel its a lot cheaper than buying 4 or 5 tubes of silicone.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Just a quick update. I got around to painting the ''rocks.'' I picked up a pack of acrylic paints from a local hobby store. I used a base coat of water down black then I added some browns, tan, yellows, shades of green and white highlights. It looks ok when dry, but it really looks good when wet. I will be adding some more vines and organic planting spots on the rockwall for better epiphyte mounting. Here are the pics...


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## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

Looks AMAZING! What are u putting in there??


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I dont know yet. I want a small group of Reeds but I can't find them anywhere. Thanks for the compliment, I still have a long way to go before its complete.


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## NVfrogger (Apr 10, 2011)

Looks outstanding. Great design.


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## Froggyplush (Oct 28, 2011)

ive got some fire bellies i think they would eat any thing i throw in tank ive got pictures try to down load


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I've kept firebellies in the past in my first zoomed and liked them. They are very active and utilised the vertical space too. I would keep them in this but I didn't build many horizontal areas for them.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Quick update. This thing is almost done. Added some more fake jungle vines for climbing and a floating "island."


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

diggenem said:


> Quick update. This thing is almost done. Added some more fake jungle vines for climbing and a floating "island."


I like the bio vines but maybe put some of the same stuff you used on the other vine on those to make it all blend in?

Looks great tho I was just making a suggestion


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I like the bio vines but maybe put some of the same stuff you used on the other vine on those to make it all blend in?
> 
> Looks great tho I was just making a suggestion


Thanks for the compliment and the suggestion. I was going to do just that. I was just waiting on the GS to cure so I can finish it all at once. The mystery stuff is actually Gorilla Glue and peat. I just rub the glue on then rub the peat in. The vine still remains flexible afterwards.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

diggenem said:


> Thanks for the compliment and the suggestion. I was going to do just that. I was just waiting on the GS to cure so I can finish it all at once. The mystery stuff is actually Gorilla Glue and peat. I just rub the glue on then rub the peat in. The vine still remains flexible afterwards.


you're welcome.
Thanks for seeing it as a suggestion and not that I was telling you what to do lol. 
Yeah I figured that's what you was gonna do I was just checking.
I only said stuff cause idk if you mentioned what you was usig, maybe I didn't see it.
A bit stressed out these days haha.

About what you said earlier about that the frogs will stay up high and not cross the path of the crabs....well the frogs will go everywhere. especially PDFs.
There really isn't much land here at all anyway for PDFs IMO.
The crabs I'm sure would attack any kind of frogs or anything for that matter.
Better not to risk it.

Have you figured out what you're gonna out in here yet tho?

viv is looking great and I can't wait to see more


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

If you are looking for reeds, you can try Wildside out in Oakwood, they get them in sometimes. Have you thought about Theloderma corticale?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> If you are looking for reeds, you can try Wildside out in Oakwood, they get them in sometimes. Have you thought about Theloderma corticale?


mossy frogs are so neat 
They would look great in this viv or maybe some glass reed frogs


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I really want some reeds but they are hard to find so good look field for the bit of info. No vampire crabs though, maybe ill do a build for them at a later time


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Another quick update.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Waterfall test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7yMg4dBEGE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

diggenem said:


> Waterfall test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7yMg4dBEGE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


looks great 
can't wait to see it planted 
btw are you gonna put any kind of false bottom or anything and have some bit of land?


here is your vid embedded into your thread


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Thanks Dragon. I hope to have it planted by the end of the month. To answer your question, the bottom will be a full pond. I dont on planted it heavily just maybe some crypts near the rock shore.


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