# Rana & Chytrid Pre-ship Testing - FREE



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Hello everyone,

We have spent some time reflecting on recent events. We have always had a very strong protocol regarding chytrid and rana testing of our frogs when we receive them, as well as spot checking the existing collection from time to time. We're going to step up our already strong policy to and start testing outbound frogs.

*FREE CHYTRID AND RANA TESTS*
*Starting now, all frog orders of $300 or greater will be tested for chytrid and rana, free of charge.* The report will ship with the frogs and have the buyer's last name on it. Research Lab Associates will be the lab used. 

*ONLY $30 CHYTRID AND RANA TESTS*
*Any orders under $300 can and are encouraged to be tested for a $30 fee **(this is below the actual cost).* 

*PRE-TESTS*
We will pre-test a select number of frogs to have available in a depicted section on the site with a report for the frogs in question with a date not to exceed 6 months from the purchase date. For example any WC/FR frog would have been tested anyway. Other quick selling frogs will also be pre-tested. These frogs will be available with a report for them dated within six months. 

*POSITIVES*
Needless to say, should there be any positive test results, *the frogs would not ship.* We will outline all of the details on our sites in the coming days.

*FREE SWABS*
Anyone wishing to test their collection is welcome to three free swabs (with free shipping). Use coupon code *Proactive* . *This offer is valid until 11/25/2013.* These will be on the site today. This will ship near the end of the week (we have very few on hand but a case was ordered on Friday). 

*$1 SWABS*
*We will be putting sterile swabs on our site for $1 each. *
These will be on the site today. This will ship near the end of the week (we have very few on hand but a case was ordered on Friday). 


*We stand behind our frogs, do they?* We challenge all other breeders to offer pre-ship testing, for the good of the hobby, for the good of the frogs.


Brad & Marta


----------



## Jeremiah (Mar 1, 2008)

This is a great idea!


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

what a terrific sales approach...


----------



## Armson (Sep 8, 2008)

Very Awesome


----------



## SilverLynx (Aug 29, 2013)

Here you go folks!!! This is really the only way to stop the spread of contagious pathogens.Testing and not shipping!!! The buyer has a responsibility to 
retest as well. That can be done while unpacking the frogs, BEFORE they hit the QT container. A licensed DVM can recommend future testing schedules. 

Thank you Brad and Marta for stepping up to the plate! So far, you guys are the first commercial breeders to do so. IMO this should be a standard for all breeders, commercial or not. 

Thanks,
Lane, aka, SilverLynx


----------



## boombotty (Oct 12, 2005)

VERY responsible as breeders. Nice to see you taking this approach to ensure no more disease is spread to the hobby by large breeders.


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

SilverLynx said:


> Here you go folks!!! This is really the only way to stop the spread of contagious pathogens.Testing and not shipping!!! The buyer has a responsibility to
> retest as well. That can be done while unpacking the frogs, BEFORE they hit the QT container. A licensed DVM can recommend future testing schedules.
> 
> Thank you Brad and Marta for stepping up to the plate! So far, you guys are the first commercial breeders to do so. IMO this should be a standard for all breeders, commercial or not.
> ...


Thank you Lane. 

Our hope is that buyers really drive this one home. It's the buyers that will make this a standard, not the breeders. When the buyers make their decision based on pre-ship test, then breeders will make this a standard. 

Brad


----------



## Jeremiah (Mar 1, 2008)

Fantastic idea!


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thank you so much!!! You brought happy tears to my eyes


----------



## pafrogguy (May 8, 2013)

Very nice. While I am by no means a huge scale breeder, I do have a fairly large collection and sell frogs from time to time. I am going to be taking samples this week and having my stuff retested just as a precaution. I will be happy to share copies of the results for any future offspring I offer as well. Brad and Marta are right as this has to start somewhere, and why wait? No better time then now.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

SilverLynx said:


> Here you go folks!!! This is really the only way to stop the spread of contagious pathogens.Testing and not shipping!!! The buyer has a responsibility to
> retest as well. That can be done while unpacking the frogs, BEFORE they hit the QT container. A licensed DVM can recommend future testing schedules.
> 
> Thank you Brad and Marta for stepping up to the plate! So far, you guys are the first commercial breeders to do so. IMO this should be a standard for all breeders, commercial or not.
> ...


A discussion on the issues with pretesting... So I don't hijack this thread more than necessary http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...ine-suggestions-discussion-5.html#post1617338 

Some comments 

Ed


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

pafrogguy said:


> Very nice. While I am by no means a huge scale breeder, I do have a fairly large collection and sell frogs from time to time. I am going to be taking samples this week and having my stuff retested just as a precaution. I will be happy to share copies of the results for any future offspring I offer as well. Brad and Marta are right as this has to start somewhere, and why wait? No better time then now.


Glad to see people testing their collection like you are, it really is a great step! 


Marta


----------



## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

It's great to see a vendor finally offering verification on testing with their animals, I only hope that it doesn't result in the buyer not doing their own testing as well, or thinking that their animals now have a lifetime clean bill of health.


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Brad Marta, please update us when the swabs are up on the website. I don't have access to "freebies" anymore and would like to take advantage of the three free ones as well as order a few more.

And kudos for taking this proactive step to improve our hobby.


----------



## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

This is great to see! I hope this sparks something that the hobby needs to be doing for not only our CB frogs, but for our local environments.

I QT / test for parasites and Chytrid, but never thought about Rana until just recently. Just sent off Rana tests for half my collection now and will send out the other half next week.


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Brad Marta, please update us when the swabs are up on the website. I don't have access to "freebies" anymore and would like to take advantage of the three free ones as well as order a few more.
> 
> And kudos for taking this proactive step to improve our hobby.



I just added them to the site. They don't have a catalog home yet, so you can find them in every catalog! =)

This link will bring you right there. http://www.dendrobati.com/supplies/sterile-forensic-foam-swab

Don't forget to use the discount code of *Proactive* . This is effectively a $10 discount to was out $3 of the swabs and $6.99 for shipping. We'll likely ship them via USPS to cut down on cost. 

Thank you!

Brad


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks Brad,

Just ordered 20.

I had a problem with your cart though. Kept giving me an error message when US was selected when trying to check out with paypal. Something about no paypal gateway for us selected. I just went back and didn't enter shipping info and paypal worked fine.

Also, when I checked out with the promo code proactive, it applied that $10 discount and only charged me $10.01 total. I likely owe you at least $7 more if not more for shipping.


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up. Something is going on with the hosting company. Shipping calculations aren't work. 

We'll all good. You got a couple extra for free. 

Orders are being accepted with free shipping on supplies with the hosting company works things out.

Brad


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Dendrobati said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Something is going on with the hosting company. Shipping calculations aren't work.
> 
> We'll all good. You got a couple extra for free.
> 
> ...


Are they out of stock? I checked the site and it said (in stock)N/A... Looking to get some myself....

Thanks for taking this action....Will be looking to do some future business with you guys.

James


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Azurel said:


> Are they out of stock? I checked the site and it said (in stock)N/A... Looking to get some myself....
> 
> Thanks for taking this action....Will be looking to do some future business with you guys.
> 
> James



Hi James,

thank you for your words!

Go ahead and order the quantity you want, when we have something as N/A it's just because we have a bigger number of it. 

Thank you!
Marta


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Dendrobati said:


> Hi James,
> 
> thank you for your words!
> 
> ...


Awesome....thank you.


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Azurel said:


> Awesome....thank you.



You are very welcome!

Marta


----------



## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Ok. I guarantee my first online frog order will be through you guys! The fact that you put such confidence in you stock's health is like shining a beacon of AWESOME directly in my face You my friends have just set the new gold standard for the hobby. 

It may take a while, but I WILL buy a frog from you guys


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Thank you for the support!


We got a lot of emails asking about how to use the swabs. I will answer them all but it likely won't be until tomorrow. 

In a couple of days I will make a how to video and post it on youtube and link it here. I wouldn't mind if someone beat me too it though. 

Thanks,
Brad


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Dendrobati said:


> Thank you for the support!
> 
> 
> We got a lot of emails asking about how to use the swabs. I will answer them all but it likely won't be until tomorrow.
> ...


Brad, my vet's office does videos. I was going to ask her if they'd do one showing how to swab. I'll be seeing her on Wednesday if you want to wait that long. She could do it with a big fat tree frog so we could see it. 

Here's the link to their channel: Exotic Pet Vet TV Show - YouTube


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

frogface said:


> Brad, my vet's office does videos. I was going to ask her if they'd do one showing how to swab. I'll be seeing her on Wednesday if you want to wait that long. She could do it with a big fat tree frog so we could see it.
> 
> Here's the link to their channel: Exotic Pet Vet TV Show - YouTube


Sounds very good! That would be great!

We usually always have new frogs to swab weekly / biweekly so we might end up doing a video too, but if your vet does one first then we have more time for ours. 

Thank you!

Marta


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Dendrobati said:


> Sounds very good! That would be great!
> 
> We usually always have new frogs to swab weekly / biweekly so we might end up doing a video too, but if your vet does one first then we have more time for ours.
> 
> ...


No reason you couldn't both do one; more viewers!


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

A quick update - our web didn't like working with $0 orders. I've fixed this...well...I've come up with a work around. Here's the scoop:

If you are ordering free swabs (up to three) and nothing else, use the Gift Voucher of *Proactive*. When at the checkout page, select *Use this for $0 swab orders* at the very bottom of the page.

If you are ordering other items and the order is not a $0 order, use the discount code of *Proactive* and checkout as you normally would.

If you have any issues, you can always PM or email us with your address to ship the swabs out to. 

Sorry for the issues. 

Thank you,
Brad


----------



## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thank you for providing such a service to the community! I just ordered some swabs to do my animals (I don't have many, yet). You (Dendrobati) are an asset to this community, and when I can, I will do business with you!



Dendrobati said:


> A quick update - our web didn't like working with $0 orders. I've fixed this...well...I've come up with a work around. Here's the scoop:
> 
> If you are ordering free swabs (up to three) and nothing else, use the Gift Voucher of *Proactive*. When at the checkout page, select *Use this for $0 swab orders* at the very bottom of the page.
> 
> ...


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Not to knock Dendrobati for being proactive and doing the right right thing--thanks to you both, but I'd like to see a video instructional showing an experienced dart frog vet doing the swabbing if possible. Sounds like its tricky to do right.


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Dendrobati said:


> A quick update - our web didn't like working with $0 orders. I've fixed this...well...I've come up with a work around. Here's the scoop:
> 
> If you are ordering free swabs (up to three) and nothing else, use the Gift Voucher of *Proactive*. When at the checkout page, select *Use this for $0 swab orders* at the very bottom of the page.
> 
> ...


Do I need to redo my order?


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

oldlady25715 said:


> Not to knock Dendrobati for being proactive and doing the right right thing--thanks to you both, but I'd like to see a video instructional showing an experienced dart frog vet doing the swabbing if possible. Sounds like its tricky to do right.


Kris's vet will most likely swab the tree frog, and we will be swabbing a pumilio too. You will be able to see both - ours and the vet's.

We have done tons of swabs (tomorrow only we will be doing 26 for new frogs coming in and some we sold) but we will gladly send our video to both the vet we consult with and the lab for them to tell us what they think of our swabbing process.

We aren't vets, nor are we trying to be. If some vet on the forum would like to make a video of how to swab the frogs, that would be excellent!

Marta


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Do I need to redo my order?


No, you're good! 

Marta


----------



## SilverLynx (Aug 29, 2013)

I contacted my vet today. We are scheduling a house call, which includes a hands on frog swabbing party. That should be real fun with some of the Pumilio. 

Thanks,
Lane, aka, SilverLynx


----------



## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

oldlady25715 said:


> Not to knock Dendrobati for being proactive and doing the right right thing--thanks to you both, but I'd like to see a video instructional showing an experienced dart frog vet doing the swabbing if possible. Sounds like its tricky to do right.


Not sure if this vid was created by a vet, but it should help outline the important places to swab. It's a little tougher to carefully restrain a 1/2" frog though.


----------



## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

Try and swab fantastica...hardest thing I've ever done 

Swabbing isn't hard and the frogs usually give up after a bit... You then can easily flip them over...swabbing the belly, legs, toes, etc. This is what works for me.


----------



## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Thank you Brad and Marta! Very thankful for your very proactive approach! I just ordered 30 (and some fresh supplements while I'm at it). 

I've discussed this a few times with Brian (Brian 317). I'm fortunate to have quite a few frogs in my collection from him. I know he is very diligent about testing his collection. 

Thanks again for simplifying the process, making it readily available, and encouraging everyone to do it!

-Chris


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Brian317 said:


> Try and swab fantastica...hardest thing I've ever done
> 
> Swabbing isn't hard and the frogs usually give up after a bit... You then can easily flip them over...swabbing the belly, legs, toes, etc. This is what works for me.


That was going to be the star of our video!!! 

I'd to make a video to include fantastica, escudo, and maybe a tinc. Fast, tiny, and large.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I passed the idea of a video series on frog diseases and testing, with demonstration of swabbing, by my vet today. She was intrigued. I told her that one of the reasons that more people don't test is they aren't sure how to do it. She's going to discuss it with the other vets in the practice. Hope they will.


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

If it's of any help, she could ship me the raw video on DVD, CD, or USB stick and I could edit it and give it back to them. 

Also, if needed, I may be willing to pay their hourly rate for their time. However, I would like to pass that along to my consulting vet first. 

Brad


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

For everyone that ordered swabs, they will all ship tomorrow. 

We still have plenty of swabs for anyone that is looking for them.


Thank you,
Brad


----------



## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I just ordered some. just a quick question. where or who do you send them to for testing. Thanks john


----------



## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

Also, I read about a week ago that frogs have a good immune system but chytrid fungus is being ignored by the the frogs defenses. For some reason the frogs immune system is not recognizing the fungus as a threat.


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

I reached out to Research Associates Laboratory (RAL), our lab of choice, and asked them to provide some information that we can pass on to the community regarding swabbing for frogs for Chytrid and Ranavirus. 

I've through this into a document, which can be found at the link below. We will also ship this printed with the swabs. 

http://www.dendrobati.com/docs/swabbing.pdf

We'll also provide the RAL submission form, but you can find it at this link:

http://vetdna.com/application/forms/reptilesubmissionform.pdf

Brad


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

General Notes

In-house testing agrees with swabbing up to four animals to prevent loss of sample
 Please bear in mind, do not use the same swab on animals from different habitats as contamination or spreading if they are infected can occur
Only a single swab needs to be submitted for multiple tests as sufficient DNA is extracted for 20 or more additional tests

Swabbing for Rana

 Rana Virus in an internal problem in the animals and as such is shed in oral secretions, fecal and urine so swabbing should be done from the eyes, nose and mouth areas if possible and the rectum for presence of viral shedding (blood is an excellent source but can be difficult for breeders to obtain)
 The environment is another excellent source as it remains where the animal lives. Swabbing of substrate, water and sides of enclosures are routinely good sources

Swabbing for Chytrid

Chytrid fungus is an external problem growing on and within the skin itself. Swabbing under the armpits, inside of thighs and body where legs contact are best for catching it early. Also any discolored areas of the skin and even shed skins is recommended
As it is slow growing, swabbing of skin shortly after a shed will many times not detect it
It can also be detected by environmental swabs due to spores developing and shed in the environment
It is suggested that environment swabs should be submitted once or twice a year to help monitor a healthy enclosure. If a problem does exist, you have time to make changes before a major problem erupts


This information was provided to Dendrobati (www.Dendrobati.com) by RAL (www.vetdna.com).


----------



## pafrogguy (May 8, 2013)

Wow that is great information. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Dendrobati said:


> General Notes
> 
> In-house testing agrees with swabbing up to four animals to prevent loss of sample





Can someone please translate? Is this saying to swab up to four animals in one enclosure with one swab? 

I need to figure out a cost estimate for this process to be able to say with confidence my collection tested clean. If I wanted to test a collection of say 10 tanks, would I use one swab for each tank and send that swab in to be used for both Rana and Chytrid tests? So 10 tanks, would equal 10 swabs? Or, how many swabs would be needed to test for both Chytrid and Rana on 10 tanks with 2 or 3 inhabitants in each tank?


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

oldlady25715 said:


> Can someone please translate? Is this saying to swab up to four animals in one enclosure with one swab?
> 
> I need to figure out a cost estimate for this process to be able to say with confidence my collection tested clean. If I wanted to test a collection of say 10 tanks, would I use one swab for each tank and send that swab in to be used for both Rana and Chytrid tests? So 10 tanks, would equal 10 swabs? Or, how many swabs would be needed to test for both Chytrid and Rana on 10 tanks with 2 or 3 inhabitants in each tank?


RAL recommends using one swab for up to four frogs. Which four is up to you and what you are comfortable with. You could, for example, use one swab per tank and test up to four frogs. You could also use one swab and test four different frogs in four different tanks. However this is not advised because if one frog is positive for either chytrid or rana, you just cross contaminated all of the frogs. 

Each test is $18. Testing for Chytrid and Rana would be $36. If you want a test for each of ten tanks, you're looking at $360. $360 is probably the price of one of the pairs in one of the 10 tanks?

You may feel comfortable using one swab for every two tanks for a total of $180. 


Hopefully that adds a little clarity?

Thanks,
Brad


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Dendrobati said:


> However this is not advised because if one frog is positive for either chytrid or rana, you just cross contaminated all of the frogs.


LOL. Yes that helps tremendously. One swab per tank is the way go.


----------



## OrangeTyrant (May 12, 2011)

Why would you even do the test if you're going to share swabs between enclosures? If it comes back positive, then what? You don't know which one was really positive and now you've spread it to both. If you're going to test, don't cut corners. One swab per enclosure, don't cross contaminate. If you can't afford it all in one go, test one section at a time on a rotating schedule. 

Here's a good video on where and how to swab, although it's a giant bullfrog. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip-urLMLK9k&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Ip-urLMLK9k


----------



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

I never said anything about "cutting corners" nor did I ask about using one swab on more than one tank. I was simply asking for a method to obtain a cost estimate.



OrangeTyrant said:


> Why would you even do the test if you're going to share swabs between enclosures? If it comes back positive, then what? You don't know which one was really positive and now you've spread it to both.


Thanks for restating what Brad just said, and for posting a video that was already posted a few posts back.


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

OrangeTyrant said:


> Here's a good video on where and how to swab, although it's a giant bullfrog. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip-urLMLK9k&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Ip-urLMLK9k


That is the only video I've been able to find. I've sent it off to the lab for comments but they did not, rightfully so. 

My thoughts on the video is that they are swabbing a lot! It looks like a cotton tip swab, which is harder to collect with and it's harder to get the DNA out of for the PCR test. Foam or flocked is what the lab recommends - we use foam. General concept of the video is good. 

Brad


----------



## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Just a quick status update - I counted up the orders that have come in. The response from the community has been great! We've had orders totalling 113 swabs. 

Brad


----------

