# lighting for an 8ft wide 7ft tall vivarium?



## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

I need to know what kind and how many lights and watts i need for an 8ft wide and about 6 to 7ft tall vivarium 2.5ft deep? i will be growing lots of tropical plants and also be keeping dart frogs of lizards in it. I am thinking i could do 2 4ft 4lamp 54 watt florecents or i could do like 8 compact florecents i also think i will need some uva and b lighting for the animals? please help


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## Bowser (Jul 4, 2011)

I'd think that you'd need at least t5ho for light to get to the bottom of the tank even low light conditions ( if the same rules for lighting applies for vivariums as it does for planted tanks. And from what i've read, UVA and UVB lights dont penetrate through normal glass. If you're keeping dart frogs i don't think you need them. Lizards may need it, and you'd probably want to use a screen top if you're using UVB and UVA, i'm no expert though, this is just from what i recall from readings. Good luck with your build.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

well this really depends on how the tank looks set up... i would say that you will need to do a partial screen top some where for UV basking lamp(this could be pretty small at the top), other than that i would say play it by ear until you can see where you need light


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

For something that size, look into metal halide lighting, and figure out how you're going to deal with the excess heat.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

I posted this, and I think it will work better for a tank this big. There are marijuana bulbs that are 206,000 lumens, but are 1500w. I think one of those and 6-10 T5VHO (T5 very high output) which will give you 7200 lumens/bulb so 7200x8=57600 lumens, which is plenty.


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

zBrinks said:


> For something that size, look into metal halide lighting, and figure out how you're going to deal with the excess heat.


how many metal halides will i need?


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

you should look into the equivalent of a pot grow room, at that size, for lighting and ventilation needs. Most grow rooms need to be the same conditions of frog tanks (I know from reeaading ) 78degrees to 65 and humidity to 70+ 
Ill guess that you need a lot of light. You should only need 1 light for that amont of space. Most of the plants we grow, develop in the understory or on the forest floor and dont need tons of light. Those metal halides put out a hella' lotsa' light so it should get down to the botton, as long as you keep the growth manicured. The entire top would have to be screen, for UVB UVA penetration for the lizards. Also the MH will keep it constantly humid, for the frogs. That and a good irrigation and ventilation system (fans for the lowest areas) and your could pull it off.


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## ryan10517 (Oct 23, 2010)

definitely metal halide and maybe look into some LED spotlights to reach the bottom plants


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

personally, I *think* there is no way you're going to good good penetration with t-5s, especially if they are going to need to pass through glass or a screen. if you got a duel 600 watt ballast, with an adjustable wattage setting, I think you would be good. Which would also allow you to do some fine tuning on the wattage, as well 

PS I think the full 1200 watts would be overkill(800w seems more realistic), but you're going to need some good penetration to get decent lighting to the floor level, a1nd a duel 600 watt system would probably work out to being cheaper than 2/400 watt systems


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

agreed 100% with brotherly, spot lighting will be needed to get down to the floor and that will need to be determined after its set up.


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

*Hi Power LED 6.5K CREE spotlights. *
That is the way to go. They can project from ceiling to floor.
Used in conjunction with 48" shop lights with CORRECT full spectrum + UV A-B tubes for ambient light .

I had a 6.5 ft high planted monitor cage like that once. (the plants died but not from lack of light... just when the little monitors grew.. hahah)
(it was before LED-- so all I had was halogen and mercury vapor to choose from for spots- but these special cree spots pump out as much light or more now)

Plus...Don't make the electric company rich.

You probably will need a few so I bet you could get a good deal.

And you don't have to look to far to find a contact who can get them. 
Cheers.
Todd
v
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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

how many and what kind of metal halides should i get


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> personally, I *think* there is no way you're going to good good penetration with t-5s, especially if they are going to need to pass through glass or a screen. if you got a duel 600 watt ballast, with an adjustable wattage setting, I think you would be good. Which would also allow you to do some fine tuning on the wattage, as well
> 
> PS I think the full 1200 watts would be overkill(800w seems more realistic), but you're going to need some good penetration to get decent lighting to the floor level, a1nd a duel 600 watt system would probably work out to being cheaper than 2/400 watt systems


ok what is a ballast i have know idea to lighting really im new to this? do you hook a ballast up to the t5 light fixture or what.


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

i found this it is alot of money but i think it will work?HQI T5 Aquarium Lighting Systems, Maristar HQI/T5 Aquatic Lighting Technology, Maristar HQI Metal Halide T5 Lights, HQI T5 Maristar Aquarium Lights

to make it cheaper think i could get like 3 250w matal halides and run like 6 to 8 4ft t5 ho lights


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

i have doen some reseach on metal halides and know they will reach the bottom but i am afraid they will burn my plants that are only 1ft away? i am really confused on what to do for lighting. i could do some exaust fans but should i pull air out or push air in blowing the hot air to the bottom of the viv?


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

I really would love to see this thing. Do you have a thread with what you are going to be doing as far as planting and background?


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

sorry, but i had to ask...
I know its none of my business... 
(so you can tell me to p1$$ off if you want ) 

But can you afford to add 150.00 ++ to your electric bill every month with 750 -1000 w of metal halide lighting? 

It just seems like a lot of money when there are more economical options?

(and the 1,800.00 a year could instead go to buy some cool stuff to stock in that beast of a viv. )


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

well reading on the internet my electric bill woul go up $30 if it is $180 no way i would think about it? i deffinetly want the cheapest option so fill me in what should i do


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

think i finally found what i am going to get 300 watt led system it says i can cover 50sq ft and have plants up to 6ft below it check it out. the only thing i will be afraid of is having it burn the upper plants High Power LED Grow Lights

i still have to call and see if they have it in 6500k white if not i found another company that lets you pick the colors you want her is another option i could get like 10 to 15 of these Sunshine Systems GrowSpot LED Grow Light 

i also thought i could get the panal and if that isnt enough get a couple more oth the grow spot leds 

what should i do?


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

dertien616 said:


> think i finally found what i am going to get 300 watt led system it says i can cover 50sq ft and have plants up to 6ft below it check it out. the only thing i will be afraid of is having it burn the upper plants High Power LED Grow Lights
> 
> i still have to call and see if they have it in 6500k white if not i found another company that lets you pick the colors you want her is another option i could get like 10 to 15 of these Sunshine Systems GrowSpot LED Grow Light
> 
> ...


just an FYI: most LEDs on the market now seem to be geared towards growing pot, so they don't really concern themselves with visible light quality


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Venutus1 said:


> sorry, but i had to ask...
> I know its none of my business...
> (so you can tell me to p1$$ off if you want )
> 
> ...


how much are you paying per K/H? because a 150 dollar increase would assume a 40 cent charge (with 12 hours of lighting per day) from your electric company, which seems rather high


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> how much are you paying per K/H? because a 150 dollar increase would assume a 40 cent charge (with 12 hours of lighting per day) from your electric company, which seems rather high


I was thinking the same thing myself. When I lived in Jersey I was paying $.17 per kilowatt hour.
1 kilowatt = 1000watts
1 kw x 12 hours = 12 kw
12 kw x .17 = $2.04 per day
$2.04 x 30 days = $61.20 
OR
$150 divided by 30 = $5
$5 divided by 12 hours = 41.666666 cents per kilowatt hour

Anyway, if I were you I would look into LED lighting. It costs a lot to get started but in the long run you will save a ton of money.
Jason


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Jason DeSantis said:


> I was thinking the same thing myself. When I lived in Jersey I was paying $.17 per kilowatt hour.
> 1 kilowatt = 1000watts
> 1 kw x 12 hours = 12 kw
> 12 kw x .17 = $2.04 per day
> ...



I think the real issue with lighting something that large is you're going to need to penetrate down 7 plus feet, while only lighting an area that is 2x8 feet. With the 400watt MH you would definitely get that, but you would also be wasting tons of light, being that the foot print would be more like 4x4


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

dertien616 said:


> think i finally found what i am going to get 300 watt led system it says i can cover 50sq ft and have plants up to 6ft below it check it out. the only thing i will be afraid of is having it burn the upper plants High Power LED Grow Lights
> 
> i still have to call and see if they have it in 6500k white if not i found another company that lets you pick the colors you want her is another option i could get like 10 to 15 of these Sunshine Systems GrowSpot LED Grow Light
> 
> ...


I will pm you.


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> just an FYI: most LEDs on the market now seem to be geared towards growing pot, so they don't really concern themselves with visible light quality


Yes, Kind of true.
The stuff that is being marketed in the US is pot geared because that is where the $ is right now. 
But there is a whole lot of good stuff out there that is just not being imported to the US market. yet anyway.
I was looking at some 92 cri drop in LED ceiling pannels that looked awesome just yesterday. But I think they would be too much $$ for a hobbyist. 
Hmmm, but then again...if 8 x 7 vivs become the in thing... who knows ??
Cheers,
Todd


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Venutus1 said:


> Yes, Kind of true.
> The stuff that is being marketed in the US is pot geared because that is where the $ is right now.
> But there is a whole lot of good stuff out there that is just not being imported to the US market. yet anyway.
> I was looking at some 92 cri drop in LED ceiling pannels that looked awesome just yesterday. But I think they would be too much $$ for a hobbyist.
> ...


you can even find them state side. But figured it was worth stressing so the person didn't buy something that proved completely useless for his needs


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jason DeSantis said:


> I was thinking the same thing myself. When I lived in Jersey I was paying $.17 per kilowatt hour.
> 1 kilowatt = 1000watts
> 1 kw x 12 hours = 12 kw
> 12 kw x .17 = $2.04 per day
> ...


yes, but you will want to figure in the a/c unit, fan(s) and possibly a ceiling vent fan- bathroom style, to deal with the humididty if its a small room, too boot. 
I had an enclosure that size 10 years ago (that was 3.5 ft wide) ... and it _was_ brutal on the electric bill. 
And my mixed lighting was low - only about 500 watts total.
Just saying.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Venutus1 said:


> yes, but you will want to figure in the a/c unit, fan(s) and possibly a ceiling vent fan- bathroom style, to deal with the humididty if its a small room, too boot.
> I had an enclosure that size 10 years ago (that was 3.5 ft wide) ... and it _was_ brutal on the electric bill.
> And my mixed lighting was low - only about 500 watts total.
> Just saying.


 So by that number you could double the cost for the fan and possibly exhaust fan. AC would run a little longer but not as much as opening the door on a hot day 10 times. Anywho, I think LEDs are the future of this hobby and the worlds lighting in the next 10 years.
Jason


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> you can even find them state side. But figured it was worth stressing so the person didn't buy something that proved completely useless for his needs


Yep.. it would be stressfull..cost wise!
But I can't agree with you that 92+ cri pannels would be useless if someone had deep pockets and a little know how.
Can't you picture a full lit drop ceiling of 6-ish K 92 cri pannels?
It would be the bomb.  
(The specs I saw said they have to operate in less than 95% humidity, so that would have to be worked around)
But it would be the neatest thing if they could be dimmed automatically to do dawn and dusk cycles.
With added spots for the needed lumen kick.
Now come on Brotherly, you got to admit it would be very cool to see done. 

Cheers,
Todd


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

not to suggest that everyone here is behind the curve but, i would go and read about 10 different lighting threads on reef central. reefers, not the pot kind, have been dealing with high lighting problems for years. i would not do with 400 or higher mh or mv lamps. you wont get good light distribution over a 2.5 by 8 footprint. with mh lights you would need 3 fixtures to get good coverage and need the proper reflectors. if you have the overhead height i would suggest going to lumenbright reflectors as they are a good spotlight type of reflector. also you can buy used mh fixtures relatively cheaply because of the rise of led lighting on reefs. that brings me to leds. they would be a much better long term investment and if you did a diy project you could tailor the color to your eye and plants needs. leds will penetrate. i dont believe a word on that link you posted. if you could adequately light a 5x10 foot area for with a 300 watt fixture everyone would light everything with leds. i was just at a greenhouse supply place 3 days ago and theyre catalog suggests that most of the plug and play leds on the market now are less efficient than mh, mv, or t5 lighting. even though it says high power in the name those leds are probably not what is referred in the reefing world as high power. that term is reserved for the 3 watt efficient leds like cree xms. also it is important to note that one type of light does not penetrate better than another. if you are putting out adequate lumens and the light is focused the same there is not one type of light that will get deeper into a tank than another, it is just simple physics.sorry for the book but dont want to see you throwing away good money. if and when i make my 8x4 x5 foot tank i will be putting diy leds over it. for what it is worth my current 300 gallon reef is lit my 4 250 watt mh in lumenbright fixtures and when i move stuff over to my 700 it will be lit by 5 400 watt lights. fyi my electric rate is aroun 10cents a kwh and my bill averages near a grand. thank god daily convinced obama to stop the new co2 regs from going into effect.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

another option to consider if you want to go really efficient is one of the new plasma lighting systems. they give a really well balanced color and are dimmable. that hp system may grow plants but i bet it has a horrendous cri


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

something like this looks pretty good.
there were pics of them being used to light billboards.
They come in 30, 45, and 70 watts.
6k and are waterproof
I bet 3 or 4 would work. add in some fluorescent shop lights for background lighting and to flesh out the spectrum w/ some full spectrum s& repti sun 48 tubes. get a better quality light mix. 
That would add some UVA for good frog vision. Its good if they can see well too. LOL 
An option like this would be the easiest on the 'ol electric bill.


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

Venutus1 said:


> something like this looks pretty good.
> there were pics of them being used to light billboards.
> They come in 30, 45, and 70 watts.
> 6k and are waterproof
> ...


can u show me the link to that light


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

skanderson said:


> not to suggest that everyone here is behind the curve but, i would go and read about 10 different lighting threads on reef central. reefers, not the pot kind, have been dealing with high lighting problems for years. i would not do with 400 or higher mh or mv lamps. you wont get good light distribution over a 2.5 by 8 footprint. with mh lights you would need 3 fixtures to get good coverage and need the proper reflectors. if you have the overhead height i would suggest going to lumenbright reflectors as they are a good spotlight type of reflector. also you can buy used mh fixtures relatively cheaply because of the rise of led lighting on reefs. that brings me to leds. they would be a much better long term investment and if you did a diy project you could tailor the color to your eye and plants needs. leds will penetrate. i dont believe a word on that link you posted. if you could adequately light a 5x10 foot area for with a 300 watt fixture everyone would light everything with leds. i was just at a greenhouse supply place 3 days ago and theyre catalog suggests that most of the plug and play leds on the market now are less efficient than mh, mv, or t5 lighting. even though it says high power in the name those leds are probably not what is referred in the reefing world as high power. that term is reserved for the 3 watt efficient leds like cree xms. also it is important to note that one type of light does not penetrate better than another. if you are putting out adequate lumens and the light is focused the same there is not one type of light that will get deeper into a tank than another, it is just simple physics.sorry for the book but dont want to see you throwing away good money. if and when i make my 8x4 x5 foot tank i will be putting diy leds over it. for what it is worth my current 300 gallon reef is lit my 4 250 watt mh in lumenbright fixtures and when i move stuff over to my 700 it will be lit by 5 400 watt lights. fyi my electric rate is aroun 10cents a kwh and my bill averages near a grand. thank god daily convinced obama to stop the new co2 regs from going into effect.


think 3 of these would work with 250watts a piece
how much will 1000watts cost me extra a month on my bill

http://www.aquacave.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=285


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## dertien616 (Jul 28, 2011)

Venutus1 said:


> Yes, Kind of true.
> The stuff that is being marketed in the US is pot geared because that is where the $ is right now.
> But there is a whole lot of good stuff out there that is just not being imported to the US market. yet anyway.
> I was looking at some 92 cri drop in LED ceiling pannels that looked awesome just yesterday. But I think they would be too much $$ for a hobbyist.
> ...


could you send me a link to those led ceiling panels you were talking about please


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

those are decent units except for the standard parabolic ones. the lumenbrights are typically kept about 16 inches over the water so you need a little head room over that tall tank. this makes it easier to keep the heat out of the tank/viv. there are reflectors that do a better job of lighting a somewhat oval shape the lumenbright type do an intense small square and the lumenarc type are better at spreading it out to a wider square. the led fixture in the above post is one of the higher wattage leds. they tend to loose efficiency compared to the 3 watt units. if you are considering 250 watt mh systems definately troll reef central for used units. there are 4 different people selling some type of 250 ballast, reflector, and bulbs right now. cheapest showing up for 2 250 coral vue ballasts with batwing reflectors for 75$ total. the electric mh ballasts seem to hold up really well over time. none of mine have ever failed and i cant remember ever reading about anyone ever having one fail. one other thing to look for is if you are buying hm ballasts it may be worth getting the selectable wattage type. these can be run as 250,275,400,440 watt ballast giving you the option to change up or down depending on your needs.


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