# Ventilation



## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

I have a 10g very setup already, it was my first and I am worried about how it doesn't have much ventilation. First off do 10g verts need more ventilation than the glass cracks and the daily openings for misting? I really want to have the perfect set up when I end up getting some leucs. What do you think would be the best, easiest, and not very expensive way to vent these tanks? I also have a 14" acrylic cube how should I ventilate that tank? Any and all info needed. Thanks


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

None of my tanks are ventilated by any artificial means. I do have to wipe the condensation off the glass occasionally, but that's usually necessary to keep it clean, frog poop and algae-free from the inside, anyway. Ventilation is not a must, although some people have some fancy systems to do this in order to keep the front glass clear at all times. In any event, you won't be suffocating your darts nor killing off the more common tropical plants we use if you don't vent at all, as long as temperatures are stable below 80 degrees.


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

bump


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

What Patty said... the only real need for constant ventilation is to keep the front glass clear. Regular openings to feed and mist are enough for your frogs and plants


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

That is very good, it will save me like 2 hours and $30 to make some special vent stuff. Thanks


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm no expert, but, assuming that the "very" in your first post should have been "vert" (forgive me if I misinterpreted this), I don't think you'd be very happy with leucs in that. 

Though they climb a little, they also get fairly large and would appreciate much more floor space than a 10 gallon vert provides. 

We have happy leucs in a standard 20 gallon, and hardy thumbs in our 10g verts.


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

I had read and learned a pair would be OK in a 10g vert. Is this not true?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

A 10 vert doesn't give the floor space for a pair of Leucs. A 10 horizontal would. If you budget allows, and you'd still like a vert tank, and 20H vert would be ok for a pair of Leucs, but it would really depend on how you used the height of the tank. If it were just flat background as opposed to a background that added ledges and such for additional "floor" space, then that'd be less than ideal. 10 verts are typically reserved for thumbnail and egg feeder species - aka tiny frogs that as adults are smaller than the size of a penny usually.


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

Cubby,
You've got some good tips for the footprint of your tank. 
As to the ventilation, you can create ventilation screen(s) for the top fairly easily. Most hardware stores sell replacement screen kits containing the frame, spline and corner pieces; you'd also need the fiberglass screen. Its just like building a mini-screen:
Measure the back or front top width of your tank. 
Cut the frame to this dimension, Be sure to subtract for the length of the corner pieces!
Decide on the smallest other dimension you want and cut accordingly.
Install screen using spline. 
Measure the "remaining" open top space and have glass cut to this size. 
I use this technique for some of my larger tanks(one on either top end) and mount a cheap fan over one end. A timer kicks on the fan several times a day and vents the hot, stagnant air out. Certain plants like orchids and air plants really benefit from this.
Scott


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

SMenigoz said:


> Cubby,
> You've got some good tips for the footprint of your tank.
> As to the ventilation, you can create ventilation screen(s) for the top fairly easily. Most hardware stores sell replacement screen kits containing the frame, spline and corner pieces; you'd also need the fiberglass screen. Its just like building a mini-screen:
> Measure the back or front top width of your tank.
> ...


Scott,

How narrow a screen could you make this way? I'd like to get the proverbial 1" wide strip for the front top of my next viv but wouldn't imagine you could make such a long narrow one, could you? 

I'm with you on getting glass cut for the tank top. Cheap, light weight, and a perfect fit. I leave the "lid" section separate--no hinge with the back portion. The two pieces butt up against each other with no gap, and the lid piece can just be folded back or set aside for feeding, etc. The smaller pieces of glass are much easier to clean than a big hinged affair. Though homemade hinges can be nice, too. What I hate are the wide black hinges that come with ready-made glass lids--they block so much light!

Cubby, I'm pm'ing you.


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

OK I guess things have changed. I thought I could keep leucs in a 10g vert from info in this thread. http://dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17036 
Is this a heavily debated topic?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I just looked through that thread and only one person (wax32) said anything about Leucs in a 10 vert and at that they weren't positive it would be a good idea. Did I miss a significant part of the thread?


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

Npaull also said it would be good for one and probably a pair in a 10g vert. That is 2 of 3 people saying it would be OK. I am confused taht I recieved such opposite answers in this thread


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Okay, and the way I read it, I split the difference and get 2 out of 3 in favor...Do we all need remedial reading, or what?  

Actually, I sort of remember the thread Cubby referenced. I don't know if I noticed the leucs-in-a-10-vert recommendation or not. Chances are a lot of us find ourselves skimming the threads too quickly some times and miss some critical bits of data...

And while there's disagreement amongst keepers of many spp about many husbandry recommendations, I do think the consensus here would be in favor of not recommending leucs for a 10 vert. 

Of course, the term "10-vert" is so common that we may have found ourselves thinking of a horizontal tank but automatically typing 10 vert. (After all, we don't say 10 hor, probably for good reason...  )

Just sort of bumping this in hopes for more input.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

While you will find that leucs utilize vertical space, clambering around amongst the plants, etc. they would prefer to have both adequate horizontal and vertical space. While Leucs are not among the biggest PDFs, adults can get to be pretty decent size.

Bill


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

c'est ma said:


> How narrow a screen could you make this way? I'd like to get the proverbial 1" wide strip for the front top of my next viv but wouldn't imagine you could make such a long narrow one, could you?


Probably not--the limiting factor for a narrow screen seems to be the corner pieces--I even cut them down. I can get it less than 3".
Scott


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks, Scott. That's what I was afraid of...


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## Haroldo (Mar 14, 2006)

I don't think making a 1" ventilation section would be a problem. I actually made a quad of 10g verts for some small phelsuma species I keep. The ventilation area on each tank is 8 3/8" W x 1 1/8" H. I believe you could make it even smaller using the plastic corner pieces with a bit of work. I can post pics of how it looks on my 10s if you like.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Yes, please do. That would be very helpful!


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## Haroldo (Mar 14, 2006)

Here are some pics. A clothspin is placed in the ventilation area (3/8" thick) for size comparison. Excuse the messy tanks, it's time to give them a nice scrub down. Let me know if you have any more questions.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Very nice work! Were these actually made using the standard screening materials available at home stores? As Scott mentioned, the corners I've seen at Lowes, for example, hardly look as if they could make a strip that narrow!

Do you have a problem with fly escape? I've been wondering if one could make your sort of vent out of the generally available screening, and then silicone (or otherwise glue) a strip of no-see-um mesh to the back of it...


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## Haroldo (Mar 14, 2006)

c'est ma said:


> Very nice work! Were these actually made using the standard screening materials available at home stores? As Scott mentioned, the corners I've seen at Lowes, for example, hardly look as if they could make a strip that narrow!
> 
> Do you have a problem with fly escape? I've been wondering if one could make your sort of vent out of the generally available screening, and then silicone (or otherwise glue) a strip of no-see-um mesh to the back of it...


Thanks. Yep all materials can be found at your local home store. I was able to make these so narrow be shortening the length of the corners (at least to make the overall height of the ventilation area shorther). Understand?

These vivs are actually for my colony of phelsuma lineata ssp., so I just used good ol' aluminum screening. No see um mesh would actually work better because the splines would sit in the grooves of the framing so much easier. You would just install the noo see um mesh just like the aluminum or if you like, you could install both. Let me know if I can answer any more questions.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Oh, I never run out of questions!  

I probably can't ask any intelligent ones until I actually purchase the materials in question, however. So far I've just looked at them hanging in their blister packs at the store, so I'm not sure how the frame pieces fit together. I guess I'd thought that they had some kind of snapping-together design which would make it difficult to shorten them...

How did you shorten them? (I don't have a dremel--would a hack saw work?) And, as I understand it, all one needs are the side and corner pieces of the frame that holds the screen, the screening itself, the spline, and a "spline tool." Is that about right? Sorry to pick your brain when I could probably do more research myself...

I want to make a ventilation strip to fit across the front top of an 18g high tank. Ideally it would just sit upon the lip of the top plastic frame, where the glass lid sits, and be removable just like the glass lid. Is this feasible?


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## Haroldo (Mar 14, 2006)

c'est ma said:


> Oh, I never run out of questions!
> 
> I probably can't ask any intelligent ones until I actually purchase the materials in question, however. So far I've just looked at them hanging in their blister packs at the store, so I'm not sure how the frame pieces fit together. I guess I'd thought that they had some kind of snapping-together design which would make it difficult to shorten them...
> 
> ...


You can buy all the materials (except the spline tool) in a kit together, OR you can buy them separately (sp?) which is usually a better buy. I used a dremel (at first) to shorten one of the legs of the corners, but a hack saw would do the same thing. Each leg of the corner is about 5/4" or 6/4", so cutting off between 3/4" and 1" of the leg in question is all you need to get the ventilation area as small as mine. I might just make a demo frame with pics if you can't understand what I'm saying. You are right about the materials list.

I'm not sure about the strip being removable. I'm not sure why/how you are attempting to do this.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks so much, this is so helpful! Can't wait to go to the home store (though holiday week-end plans may delay that--drat!).

Also, no home store around here that I've checked carries a no-see-um type screen, so I suppose I'll have to look online for that.

As far as a removable piece, I was just thinking that if the screen strip could be removed just like the glass top (as opposed to it being siliconed in place) one would have a lot more freedom to work in the tank when necessary. I was envisioning a screen strip with a firm frame that could just be set upon the top frame ledge, and lifted off if necessary. Is that clear?


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## Haroldo (Mar 14, 2006)

c'est ma said:


> Thanks so much, this is so helpful! Can't wait to go to the home store (though holiday week-end plans may delay that--drat!).
> 
> Also, no home store around here that I've checked carries a no-see-um type screen, so I suppose I'll have to look online for that.
> 
> As far as a removable piece, I was just thinking that if the screen strip could be removed just like the glass top (as opposed to it being siliconed in place) one would have a lot more freedom to work in the tank when necessary. I was envisioning a screen strip with a firm frame that could just be set upon the top frame ledge, and lifted off if necessary. Is that clear?


If you need some no-see-um mesh, I have a camping store around here that sells it. I could send you whatever amount you like if you're interested.

Hmm, I reckon you're doing a horizontal tank then? (This would not be a good idea imo for a vert.) Honestly, the frame doesn't take away from much accesibility in the tank, but I guess this (removable design) would work in principle. I don't know about setting it on a ledge though, more like inside the "lip" of the cage's frame.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Thanks for the mesh offer. Let me check the camping stores around here first--that's a good lead.

The tank is 20" x 10" x 20" high--I think of it as a "high" tank (not vert) but maybe it's just known as a standard 18. At any rate, I think it has very pleasing dimensions--the footprint of a 10g, but 8" taller. 

Lip, ledge--I've actually used both terms so far in an effort to describe the part of the top tank trim on which a glass lid usually rests. I'm sure we're talking about the same thing!  

Another reason I thought it might be handy to have the screen strip removable would be to maybe replace it with a solid glass piece during winter when ambient humidity is low...just another option.

At any rate, your input has been extremely helpful and I'm eager to get started. Will get back to you as soon I discover what else I don't know!


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## Haroldo (Mar 14, 2006)

c'est ma said:


> Thanks for the mesh offer. Let me check the camping stores around here first--that's a good lead.
> 
> The tank is 20" x 10" x 20" high--I think of it as a "high" tank (not vert) but maybe it's just known as a standard 18. At any rate, I think it has very pleasing dimensions--the footprint of a 10g, but 8" taller.
> 
> ...


Wish I could find a 18g around here. :roll: Stores stopped carrying them for some [stupid] reason. 
As far as the frame--yeah we're talking about the same thing.
And with the ventilation, I've got an even better idea. Why don't you make the ventilation strip permenant, but have a piece of thick acrylic, or glass made to fit over or inside the frame of the ventilation strip. That way, you can control the humidity levels throughout the year while keeping the whole structure fixed. Just my opinion though.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2006)

Thanks for this thread. And to think I was ignoring this one. C'est Ma has had and asked the exact same questions I have on this exact same subject!!!!!! Its uncanny!!!
I'm hedding to HD to get my supplies. 

I have one question about the hinges. Do I have to have a gap between the fixed bottom glass plate and the middle opening glass plate? If so, what type of hinge will I need. I bought four 2" brass hinges, would these work or should I return those?

Thanks!!

Sorry to Hijack the thread.


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## Haroldo (Mar 14, 2006)

Khamul1of9 said:


> Thanks for this thread.
> 
> I have one question about the hinges. Do I have to have a gap between the fixed bottom glass plate and the middle opening glass plate? If so, what type of hinge will I need. I bought four 2" brass hinges, would these work or should I return those?
> 
> ...


I guess I'm really not understanding your question. If you want to use the "fish hood" hinges, then yes there will be a gap. Are you proposing to silicone the brass hinges in place to get a tight fit? Have you considering doing a living hinge? Perhaps this might deserve a new thread?


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2006)

Hmmm. maybe Im not making sense. Please feel free to continue this conversation on this thread which I started for this purpose.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17490

Whats a living hinge? Is that the type they use for the glass tops they sell?

And yea, I am planning to silicone the brass to the glass. I havent opened the packages the hinges are in yet, so I'm not sure how feasible this will be.
Thanks.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

I did a living hinge on my viv. They work well and are easy to do.

Link to my journal

I also posted a step-by-step how-to on page 4 of that journal.


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