# Confirming D. auratus Green and Bronze sex/ID



## thenerdwithin (Mar 10, 2019)

So I've had a pair of auratus for about a year and a half now and I'm quite certain they're both females. I'd like to try adding a few more frogs to their tank (67 gallons) to see if I can get some males and promote breeding. But before adding any new frogs I wanted to get a second opinion on the 0.2 sex identification (I've also not ever heard calls), and be absolutely sure I know what morph I have to avoid mixing!

They were sold to me as Green and Bronze, but when comparing markings to other photos, they look a little more like "El Cope" to my eyes. I asked the seller a few months back and they did say they were Green and Bronze, but let's just say my conversation with them did not give me any confidence that they were even sure what they were raising!  They didn't have any line info and weren't forthcoming about their breeding stock origins. This is a local breeder (not on dendroboard to my knowledge) and in retrospect I wish I'd done better research before buying my first frogs from a somewhat less than reliable source.

So... do they look like Green and Bronze to you all? And I know it's hard to ID sex from photos on the internet, but do they look female to the more experienced eyes out there? Pics are here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2nqfylzvaga7486/AAD4WycUmAQw9CJzXimycWQFa?dl=0 Thanks!


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## macg (Apr 19, 2018)

To me, that's really difficult to say from the pictures (or even in person). It's possible they are also microspot, which are suspected of being the same as green and bronze (but it has not been confirmed, so they should not be mixed).

microspot: http://www.understoryenterprises.com/dart-frogs/dendrobates-auratus 

I also think my microspot look suspiciously close to turquoise and bronze, which are suspected of being the same as el cope (though still no confirmation, so they should not be mixed).

All that is to say, you most likely have auratus that you will never be able to conclusively identify, and as a result, imho the responsible thing would be to not breed them and spread them through the hobby as an identified morph.


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## thenerdwithin (Mar 10, 2019)

Thanks macg, that pretty much confirms my fear. Seems like a few of these auratus morphs are pretty impossible to reliably ID. I agree, I don't want to try breeding them if I'm not 100% certain, and I just won't ever be. I might get another, smaller viv ready for my two auratus to free up the 67 gallon for a slightly larger group of... something.

Any recommendations for tank inhabitants? https://www.dropbox.com/s/nku3iqhnti77vlw/Photo Jun 30, 1 47 52 PM.jpg?dl=0 

I built it with auratus in mind, but ended up having a lot more arboreal habitat as it's grown in (even more since this photo). There's a small shallow stream/waterfall in that dark area on the right, but as most noobs discover, my auratus haven't used it at all...


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## macg (Apr 19, 2018)

For a tank that ended up being more arboreal (and looks like that, looks good!), my first guess would be leucs, but I've never kept them to gain first hand experience. I am, however, planning to get them for my next build, which will be a 55gal. I'll let others provide their recommendations, but for a tank that size, I suspect almost any species would be satisfied if they are not overcrowded.

As far as water features go, I was surprised when my auratus decided to use my pool area to deposit a tadpole instead of a brom. The tadpole keeps growing and looks darn healthy. It's the only tadpole the male has successfully deposited anywhere thus far. However, some people warn that they have seen frogs drowned by others during aggressive behavior. 

That is to say, a waterfall is in all likelihood useless as you have come to discover for these types of frogs; however, I'm not totally convinced that small water areas are a bad idea for all species.

Now comes what may be a difficult decision. In your current 67 gal, you have 2 auratus currently (if I understand correctly), and you would like to put another species in that tank after removing the auratus. The question is, will you clean and rebuild the tank prior to adding new inhabitants, or will you put them in the tank as it is? The technically more responsible and less risky option is to clean the tank and rebuild to prevent disease transmission, but I'm sure many people have just switched inhabitants with no issues at all. This decision really only affects you and your frogs, not the community at large, so it's a personal choice that you'll have to weigh coupled with your time, finances, etc. I'm not going to get into a huge discussion about this, nor do I want to open this thread up to that. It's your choice, and there are reasons to choose one option or the other ad nauseam. Just be aware of the choice, and consciously make yours.


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