# News about the INIBICO project...THEY ARE HERE!!!!



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Just thought i'd let everyone know, i contacted Sean and he gave me permission to post a brief status report on the INIBICO project.....



Frogs should be in country in roughly a month. Exact numbers and prices of each are yet to be determined. Once shipment arrives, a percentage will be tested for disease. After a quarantine process of 2-4 weeks they will be offered for sale.

THEY ARE HERE!!!!! (They arent ready to be sold yet though)...See Sean's site for details...and try not to swap him with to many emails  ....i am a hypocrite 


Expected frogs....

fantasticus, imitator,
> variabilis, cainarachi, 
> azureiventris, black bassleri, orange bassleri,
> trivavtattus, femoralis for starter 
> shipment!


Here is Seans website and contact info, but hopefully this post will cut down on emails asking about this, and give him more time to breed us awsome frogs 

Sean Stewart
> HERPETOLOGIC, LLC
> 12256 Frederick Road
> Ellicott City, Maryland 21042
> [email protected]
> 
> 
> http://www.herpetologic.net
> 410-531-1538 (H) 
> 410-531-9499 (Business)
> 410-531-2012 (Fax)
> 410-340-6957 (Cell)


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2006)

I don't know much about INBICO, could someone explain it a little?


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

> I don't know much about INBICO, could someone explain it a little?


http://www.geocities.com/inibico/english.html


Wow, some really neat stuff coming in!!!


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## Blort (Feb 5, 2005)

http://www.inibico.org


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## twisner (Jul 7, 2005)

i dont know anything about this project either, and the link isnt working.
so are these frogs available to the general public, or just experienced breeders and people with connections?
is the "cainarachi" being imported E. Cainarachi?


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

The frogs should be starting around $60, and I imagine it should be first come, first serve. Yes, E. cainarachi.

Luke


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Look at the link in the original post, that site explains it. I think the cainarachi mentioned was the Variabilis from cainarichi.


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## astrozombies (Jun 17, 2005)

I was at Sean's house this past week and he was telling us about this and showing us frogs that will be coming in and all i can say is some of those frogs are out of this world. The balcks are one of the prettiest frogs I have ever seen period and i definately can't wait to get some of them!


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

from what I understand, the first shipment is going to be small and will serve as sort of a test run. There will be many following shipments and there will be a wider variety of imports and greater numbers as the process moves along. From what I've been told by Sean the first frogs will range from $80-125.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

I was told that the first shipment would be d. variabilis, black bassleri and yellow baseleri, I don't know about the other frogs Dave is talking about. but that is not to say that things haven't changed over the last three weeks.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Dang. I'm willing to bet all those frogs are already sold and paid for...


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

From what I understand there is no need to worry. In the near future there will be more importations with larger numbers of frogs and more variety. From what I understand these imports could bring dozens of new species and sub-species. The first shipment is merely a taste. Supposedly, these shipments could bring a volume of frogs comparable to that of the Panamanian pumilio imports.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I hope somebody has a REALLY good camera and takes AND posts picks of all the new arrivals. Can't wait  

Now I know what I want for Xmas :lol:


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

So the cat is out of the bag! Dave is correct in the frog list, and by cainarachi he means E. cainarachi. There are pics up of all these frogs plus others on http://www.dendrobates.org .The black bassleri listed here I have under 'yellow/black bassleri' and the 'orange' bassleri is listed on the site under 'nominal bassleri'. Poor Sean is going to have so many emails to answer. Suffice it to say that any crazy or incredible looking frog is currently either under production or in planning for future exports. 

Evan


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

The frog list was the list that that sean emailed me. Everything is still going through processing so i would assume that nothing is for sure.

I would refrain from emailing sean about these frogs atleast until he updates his site and/or says that they have arrived. Thats one reason why i asked him if i could post this.

Now if you know sean really well, and he tends to give you more info then he does joe blows like me, then maybe its worth an email. But also i would encourage anyone who may have more info about this to be careful what they say, and let the info be released by the people involved and on their terms.

Oh and i seriously doubt these frogs have all been bought and paid for before they even get here. His site addresses this issue, and Sean isnt known for those kind of buisness practices. 

Now i dont think its unreasonable to assume that friends and long term customers my be given some preference, or that some frogs may be saved for other breeders, or for trading for other hard to get species/morphs. But as already mentioned this is just the first in what will hopefully be many importations. Trust in Sean...for he will show us the way!!!! Bow down! (k, kidding but i guess u can if u want)


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I haven't been able to get on dendrobates.org for a while, I only get errors for it? Evan, do you know whats wrong with it?

I am very excited about some of these animals coming in, I just hope some people know what they are getting into. All these frogs except for the Cains have been in the hobby (species, not exactly the same morph in some cases) and its interesting to see what's still here and what's not (yes, it may be different this time around). I don't actually know how big the cains get, can you give us a size reference?

If you're looking into the bassleri... please realize these frogs are BIG and LOUD. The tanks I'm looking at for them are 60 gallon breeders, maybe 40 gallon breeder if I'm only having a pair. Much like how the surinam Trivs are housed... the bassleri and triv should be housed the same way (big roomy tanks). I've had a lot of people contacting me about the care of these guys lately, and if you think you're going to stick the bassleri in a 10, you're going to have issues.


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Dendrobates.org is working again, at least for me. It was messed up for a few days because the university made all these weird IP deletions for no reason but the server guys finally got the stuff fixed again.

As for the E. cainarachi, they get to about 32mm or so, so basically like a small bassleri.

Evan


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

Yeah, I was suprised that Sean let everyone know. But now that its out, I'm sure Sean will enjoy the business but maybe he should hire a secretary. :lol:


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## Lukeomelas (Mar 15, 2005)

I can't seem to get the link to work either.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Its down its back up, its down, its back up....keep trying...i've been able to get on sometimes in the last couple days. Just need good timing


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## Lukeomelas (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks, I'll be sure to cross my fingers next time!


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

This is quite exciting! I don't plan on purchasing from the first shippment, but when the second shippment comes around, I'll be ready!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Bump for Arrival of new frogs to the hobby!!!


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

They are here? can we call him? I only want imitators!


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Well I guess since Sean has put them up on the website he wants people to know that the INIBICO frogs have arrived. Actually, they arrived in the US on March 24th after weeks/months of us suffering at the hands of CITES and the Peruvian government. Every one of the frogs arrived in great shape. They are currently in the quarantine/observation stage but should be ready soon.

Evan


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

That is way too cool guys, it is very exciting to see the work inibico has been doing. If anyone purchases any of these available frogs, do post somepictures to make the rest of us drool over . Take care all, and I am looking forward to the second shipment,

ed parker


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## npaull (May 8, 2005)

Oh my god he says they are going to be bringing in legal mysteriosus this summer! Incredible.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Is all of this on Dendrobates.org? B/c I can't seem to access that website.


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

I believe it's on herpetologic.net Sean's website. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## jsagcincy (May 2, 2005)

That is correct. http://www.herpetologic.net/frogs/availability.html

Bottom of the page lists species that will be available after the quarantine period. Very limited numbers on some this go around but more to come.


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Frogtofall said:


> Is all of this on Dendrobates.org? B/c I can't seem to access that website.


Dendrobates.org is temporarily down for some renovations, I hope to have it up very soon, just need to find the time to work on it...

Evan


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

> Oh my god he says they are going to be bringing in legal mysteriosus this summer! Incredible.


don't jump the gun, it says they hope to have some by summer 2006. But it has taken a long time just to get these first few frogs, so i wouldn't hold my breath on legal mysteriosus coming in this summer. i'm sure it will happen, but it may be a ways off. on the upside though they are supposed to be pretty prolific so i can see them becoming established pretty quickly once legal imports become available.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I edited the original post also, i guess i should of added this to the bump though.

These frogs are here, but there is still alot to do before they are ready to sell, They are NOT AVIALABLE YET. Im sure Sean will tell us when they are. Please do not email to buy these yet. I just happened to be up late and i guess one of the first people to see his updated site...i dont have any inside info about these frogs or when they will be available.

Although the info was posted publicly on his site i think i'm already in a little trouble because people didnt read the edit to the original thread, nor all the info on his site before firing off a ton of emails. Please be paitent.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Dave, what site are you referring to? I'd like to read what he's put up there.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

http://www.herpetologic.net 

There has been a little more updating since what i saw last night.

But remember...these frogs are not available yet, and Sean usually works on a first come first serve basis once he announces things are available.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2006)

To get this straight--these frogs are raised on preserves by persons trained to harvest them for the pet trade in a sustainable manner? One of the characteristics of the order (especially thumbs) is that they reproduce relatively slowly which would indicate a fragile balance.

The prices seem about as high as captive breds yet there is the risk of parasites? 

Some are captive bred and some aren't?

Each sale saves 3 acres of rainforest? Does it depend on the expense of the frog?

Although it is a novel idea, I am not sure if I would buy these frogs from Peru over stable innoculated captive breds. Furthermore, it would seem that some of the species that are "rare" in the wild should not be sold at all.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

aaron engstrom said:


> To get this straight--these frogs are raised on preserves by persons trained to harvest them for the pet trade in a sustainable manner? One of the characteristics of the order (especially thumbs) is that they reproduce relatively slowly which would indicate a fragile balance.
> 
> The prices seem about as high as captive breds yet there is the risk of parasites?
> 
> ...



1. yes....some i believe are raised in large green house type enclosures and/or some are raised in artificial egg sites left for the frogs on private lands.

2. Yes the prices are as high as SOME cb frogs...but these come with alot more data then your average cb frog and remember almost every species coming in is extremely rare in the states, or isnt in the hobby at all till now. Its taken several years and alot of money to get this project off the ground. 

3. farm raised is probably more accurate. 

4. Im sure this is a rough estimate, but these people are being paid to save thier lands for production of these frogs, which in turn protects not only the frogs but many other species of pants and animals...and if the project grows...more can be saved.

5. There is probably a little more risk then CB animals but given who is involved in this project, its likely that these animals are being raised and taken care of better then 99% of other imported animals. If people dont get these and dont get them established and imports eventually stop they may cease to exist in the hobby and the project wont be sustainable and the benifits will be lost. 

Is there some risk yes, but not as much as most imported animals....Also yes some rare frogs are being sold, but also land is being saved for these frogs to continue their wild populations, so a few are collected and sold to help insure the future of the species as a whole.

Also as far as price and health goes...many of these frogs are adults which typically cost more, and atleast a percentage are being tested and treated for several pathogens...which most wc imported animals never get that kinda care.

Hope this helps, im short on time so this is as detailed as i could get...im sure others can fill in any gaps i left


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

> Although it is a novel idea, I am not sure if I would buy these frogs from Peru over stable innoculated captive breds. Furthermore, it would seem that some of the species that are "rare" in the wild should not be sold at all.


 Short-sightedness is only beneficial to the one who has it. Many people have devoted time into this project. They have worked on this to help save land, that neither you nor anyone else had been trying to save. I am glad that you don't want to buy these animals, they would be better off with someone who really wants to help and believe in this. 

Just wondering, how do you propose saving land (for the frogs et al), opening up jobs, and bringing over new frogs for the hobby into the US?


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## dcameron (Jun 9, 2004)

"Although it is a novel idea, I am not sure if I would buy these frogs from Peru over stable innoculated captive breds. Furthermore, it would seem that some of the species that are "rare" in the wild should not be sold at all"


Im guessing you are new to the hobby. This has been in the planning stages for years and its run by some first class guys. You may want to get your facts straight before questioning a great project


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## droseraman (Jun 17, 2004)

i cant wait for these frogs to be avalible


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## yuri (Feb 18, 2004)

aaron engstrom said:


> One of the characteristics of the order (especially thumbs) is that they reproduce relatively slowly which would indicate a fragile balance.


Their Order in ANURA, the Family is DENDROBATIDAE. I think you may have intended to say Family. Phyllobates (genus within Dendrobatidae) are quite prolific. I have had Dendrobates ventrimaculatus (a thumbnail) that bred all year long, with weekly, viable clutches. So, I don't know where you read or heard about Dendrobatidae being relatively slow reproductively. Sure some reproduce less in captivity than others, but who knows if this is a limitation of current husbandry techniques and not a limitation of the reproductive potential. I believe one study identified the limiting factor in the population as being ht eavailability of egg/tadpole deposition sites, and adding artificial deposition sites allowed for a sustainable 'harvest' of tadpoles/froglets.

I encourage you to look further into the project, it is quite a novel idea in terms of conservation, local economics, sustainable extraction and captive husbandry.


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

This is a grreat moment not only for the hobby, but for the frogs themselves. Land is being preserved, and frogs are being, legally, and safely, introduced into the hobby. I thank that we should, instead of just being happy that we have more frogs, take some time to thank Sean and his team at INIBICO for all their hard work. And, thanks to Dave for keeping us updated. These will be a great addition to the hobby, and I call dibs on 4 yellow bassleri!


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2006)

If they are adults than the prices are lower than the current market--I must have missed that detail.

I did read an article on Bromeliade selection and which sorts are preferable, and in a greenhouse predators are limited and food sources can be supplemented so I see how there would be much more productivity. When I wrote relatively I was reffering to the family hylid which we all know lay hundreds of eggs at one time.

The response "...some are raised in artificial egg sites left for the frogs on private lands." is intriguing and brings up the potential of conservation easment stratgey to save private lands in the US. 

To reply to the angry comment: I'll admit I don't do a lot to "save the rainforest" and I wish I had the resouces to enjoy some ecotourism down there as many of you have done. I do some llittle things like not eat ground beef from McDonalds (which is allegedly ranched on cleared rainforest) or at all for that matter, I do not shop at Gap and Old Navy type companies because they allegedly destroy rainforest too. I do not buy wild caught frogs.

The project seems to be a great idea; I was just playing a little devil's advocate. I'm sure it will, and has, encountered greater obstacles than a little constructive scrutiny from me.

Thanks


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

I would call dibs, but I thought that these frogs were already treated and quarantined. I thought that they would be ready for a viv right away. I'm not experienced enough to take some of these. I'm going to sit this out and beg for people to post pictures of the frogs they receive. I also want to thank Sean Stewart and the whole team for the work they have put in. I can't wait to see how this is going to influence the hobby. Exciting times are on the horizon.


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

bluedart said:


> Sean and his team at INIBICO


Not to nitpick but I can't let this slide. Sean has been a part of this project but make no mistake - this is Rainer Schulte's brainchild and his project all the way. There are now a handful of people playing integral roles - export paperwork, management plan proposals, land use monitoring, treatment, sales, etc, but in every respect this project exists because of one eccentric German named Rainer. 

Evan


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Ric Sanchez said:


> bluedart said:
> 
> 
> > Sean and his team at INIBICO
> ...


You are exactly right; Schulte was the one who did the experimentation that led to the mere concept of what has been accomplished. You're entirely right, I should have said "The team at INIBICO". My apologies, but I wasn't trying to play favorites at all. I shall make this clearer next time.

Thanks to the team at INIBICO for the contribution to the hobby, but most importantly to the animals!


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

I wanna give Rainer Schulte a big old kiss! I am so excited to see and hear more reports now. We are about to see the fruits from all of the hardwork.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

One thing I want to mention about PDF productivity in comparison to hylids... you're talking two very different reproductive strategies. Hylids tend more towards explosive breeders who lay a large number of eggs at one time, or a few large clutches over a period of time. PDFs, in contrast, lay fewer, larger eggs at a time, invest significant parental care to make sure they are away from predators and in some extreme cases have enough food in environments where they might not have enough food (allowing them to explote areas other animals can't, but at greater cost to the parents). Most also breed thru the whole year, producing a froglet here, a froglet there, low densities to escape notice of predators rather than the "flood" of froglets by explosive breeders (which expect a significant amount to be eaten, but so many are produced that at least some will get away). Two very different strategies being compared here - in the end they are about as equally productive (keeping the population sustained).

PDFs are also not bromeliad exclusive, tho the use of bromeliads by certain frogs has been harped on time and time again. I think a lot of us use it just to marvel at two great examples of evolution in the same place, and both seem to scream "jungle" to us. In reality the frogs we thing of as "brom" users often don't use just broms, or broms at all (some prefer xanthosoma, heliconia, or just anything that holds water, broms included, but trash is just as likely as well). I think Rainer proved this rather well with his "tadpole cups" that had such a variety of frogs deposit in them! What a way to collect breeders/frogs for export, taking tads out of a population with out harming it! Giving back to the community by giving them jobs/money, saving valuable forest by giving them options other than stuff like slash and burn agriculture so it helps them and the forest, stuff that keeps us happy, and them happy, and wild populations healthy (evironment is happy).

"Farm Raised" is the most accurate term for these frogs (animals raised in captivity in their native country), but what that actually means depends on the individual farming operation. The animals fall between captive bred and wild caught, but which end of the spectrum varies by the operation. In this case these animals fall much closer to CB, so you can buy these animals knowing they are healthier and in better shape than any WC, almost what you'd expect for CBs, so you can pay their prices pretty much without having to worry about the "die offs" like you would with WCs.

The prices I've seen for these animals seems just. Most of these are new morphs, or even species to the hobby, some aren't but are new bloodlines, so their price is about right. Sure a lot of us would like to see lower prices, but if you don't have the money, than at least at this point in time, these frogs aren't for you.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

At what point did hylids come into this conversation? Did I miss it??


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Page back, I was responding to a post by aaron engstrom, he mentioned he was comparing PDF productivity to the hundreds of eggs hylids lay at a time. Since the differences in reproductive strategy weren't addressed (which would in my mind, explain why a number of us didn't agree on their "lower" productivity) I was just taking the time to do so tho I'm running a little behind.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Ahhhh! I missed that post. Gotcha.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

lol, yeah, sorry if it seemed like I was off topic. This post ran away while I was sleeping.


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

sleep is overrated (says the man who sleeps from 4 or 5 am to 2 pm)


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## yuri (Feb 18, 2004)

Jan Post also deserves a fair amount fo credit for this project. He helped round up funding to get this project further off the ground.

This project is in the same vein as efforts put forth by Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream. Their work in the Amazon (sustainable harvesting of nuts for their ice cream) put these kinds of efforts in front of the masses.

Great effort by all involved.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Random question, what does the acronym INIBICO stand for?


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

It is a bit lost in translation from spanish to english but it is roughly 'Institution for Biological Investigation of the Cordilleras Orientales'

Evan


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Thank you. I tried to find it on my own but came up empty handed.


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## dcameron (Jun 9, 2004)

Are the hylids advertised on Kingsnake part of the project or a seperate one?


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Yeah, I saw that to. I don't think it has anything to do with the INIBICO project. There's the link, but it sounds like they won't be made available to just anyone. http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=14&de=399268


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

They are seperate from INIBICO, and a project that has been in the works for a while. Timing is just similar, wouldn't be suprised if the timing is similar due to their papers (finally) being accepted and allowed for export just around the same time. Very cool frogs and I can't wait to see them when they come in, as I'm a bit of a TF addict as well, especially when its leucophyllata group frogs


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

KeroKero said:


> PDFs are also not bromeliad exclusive, tho the use of bromeliads by certain frogs has been harped on time and time again. I think a lot of us use it just to marvel at two great examples of evolution in the same place, and both seem to scream "jungle" to us. In reality the frogs we thing of as "brom" users often don't use just broms, or broms at all (some prefer xanthosoma, heliconia, or just anything that holds water, broms included, but trash is just as likely as well). I think Rainer proved this rather well with his "tadpole cups" that had such a variety of frogs deposit in them! What a way to collect breeders/frogs for export, taking tads out of a population with out harming it! Giving back to the community by giving them jobs/money, saving valuable forest by giving them options other than stuff like slash and burn agriculture so it helps them and the forest, stuff that keeps us happy, and them happy, and wild populations healthy (evironment is happy).


I will never look at an xanthosoma the same after peru. And I saw a bunch of Rainers old cups still being used to this day with tads and eggs in them. Imitators were all useing plants like xanthosomas , Fants seemed to like tree holes and vents and variabailis were useing broms. Ill have pics of all these tad and eggs sites soon.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Any updates on the new imports?


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## josh raysin (Nov 28, 2005)

check herptilogics website for new info. sean told me 2 weeks ago it would be really soon so i expect them to be available very soon.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

sean will probably have them in time for IAD.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

except he can't sell them there.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

**

your right i wasnt thinking what i was typing. no wild caught just captive bred sold. would be nice if he could bring some just to show them.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Yeah, it would be, but its not going to happen. Maybe he'll bring pics, but since FRs aren't CB, they aren't allowed in the show, and I'm not sure he's really going to be able to even advertise the FRs (which would be right up there with having them on the table).


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

I highly doubt Sean needs the "advertising" for the INIBICO imports. For the near future, demand almost certainly far outstrips supply.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

josh raysin said:


> check herptilogics website for new info. sean told me 2 weeks ago it would be really soon so i expect them to be available very soon.


...like more than the 15 times a day I already have been? :wink:


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Anyone check his website today? A lot of them are available! :shock:


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

:wink:


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I'm blind. For the life of me I can't see where they're at.


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Scroll down to Peru. http://herpetologic.net/frogs/availability.html

Jordan


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Goin fast


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I looked straight at them more than five times and didn't see them. Thanks for helping me out.


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