# Tad food/powder recipe



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey all, Wanted to share my recipe for tadple food. It is a bit pricey to gather all the ingredients but it has always worked great for me. 
You'll need a coffee grinder and the following ingredients.
4 grams Klamath Lake Blue Green algae powder
4 grams Spirulina algae powder
4 grams Chlorella algae powder
6 grams dusted then dried melonogaster flies
6 grams bee pollen
2 grams Cyclop-Eeze freeze dried
6 grams mixed Ocean Nutrition fish food flakes

The three algae powders come from any health food/vitamin store. Make sure what you get is 100 percent pure. The powders and the capsules can be found in 100 percent pure. The tablets can NOT. If you get the capsules, you'll obviously have to pull them apart and empty them out. I found that one full teaspoon is about 4 grams.

The bee pollen is also found at the health food/vitamin store. I use fresh Colorado granulated bee pollen. It requires a good run through the coffee grinder to fully pulverize it. I put it into the grinder with the algae powders to fully mix stuff in. Think about it. Pollen falls into broms and pools all the time. I believe it is normally a regular part of their diet in the wild.

Flies?? Yes flies. Bugs are also a regular part of their diet and a good source of protein. I like to have a bit of vitamins in the mix so by dusting the flies with Repashy Calcium Plus ICB, while still alive, I am adding a small amount of vitamins and minerals without any real risk of overdose. I then put the flies in a small jar with a coffee filter for a lid. I put the jar on a standard 40w florescent light fixture. The heat kills them and dries them. I just leave them there overnight. Measure out 6 grams and toss them in the coffee grinder.

The Cyclop-Eeze is also run through the grinder. Cyclop-Eeze is well known to reefkeepers. It is a micro crustacean fed heavily with astaxanthene. It is used as a feed supplement with great benefits to breeding success in Aquaculture, and in Avian and reptilian husbandry. It is a great source of HUFAs and antioxidents. This stuff is almost too good to be true. Here is a link. CYCLOP-EEZE®: Product Info

The fish flake I use is by Ocean Nutrition. It is very high quality. I use a mix of all five varieties. It contains Formula One, Formula Two, Prime Reef, Brine Shrimp Plus, and Spirulina Flakes. This is also run through the grinder.

A small pinch is fed with every water change. I do this two to three times a week depending on how busy I am. My tads have always morphed out big and healthy using this recipe. Hope it works as well for you!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Pollen? What's the nutritional value of the stuff? Isn't it just encased plant sperm?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> The heat kills them and dries them. I just leave them there overnight. Measure out 6 grams and toss them in the coffee grinder.


And this oxidizes any fat soluble vitamins.. or even non-fat soluble vitamins.. Think about it.... In addition, it creates rancid oils and fats, these are a problem as they have different metabolic effects... If you are going to do this, do not dust the flies, do not cook the flies, freeze them and then let them freeze dry.. or just use fresh flies. 

Becareful when using the grinder and this can heat up the materials resulting in oxidation of the nutrients as well. 

as an "editorial" comment... 
Tadpole nutrition is a topic that routinely undergoes fads of simplicity and complexity.. in the early days it was algae and nettle powders.. as time went on and more information came out about the diet of these tadpoles (opportunistic carnivores.. with a cannibalistic trait for many of them), it cycled to heavy carinivore based foods then there it cycled back as people decided Sera-min was the best thing for tadpoles and then back toward complexity again.. this is reflected not only in the published history of the hobby (such as the BDG, the ADG.. frognet archives, but here..). 

There are less expensive methods to supply protein other than pollens (and yes tadpoles are known to forage for pollen as a source of protein..) such as a good grade fish food.. as these are palatable, and due to the method of processing easily digested... 

end of editorial comment... 

Ed


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Ed said:


> There are less expensive methods to supply protein other than pollens (and yes tadpoles are known to forage for pollen as a source of protein..)
> 
> Ed


Didn't know that, thanks. Also, why do all of this stuff when all of these ingredients, and more, can be found in high quality fish foods? For example, look at the ingredients on New Life Spectrum fish food:

Whole Antarctic krill meal, whole herring meal, wheat flour, squid meal, algae meal, soybean isolate, beta carotene, spirulina, garlic, vegetable and fruit extract (spinach, broccoli, red pepper, zucchini, tomato, pea, red and green cabbage, apple, apricot, mango, kiwi, papaya, peach, pear), vitamin a acetate, d-activated animal sterol (D3), vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine, DL alphatocophero (E), riboflavin supplement, folic acid, niacin, biotin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydro-chloride, l-ascorby-2-polyphosphate (stable C), choline chloride, ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, cobalt sulfate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks Doug (my button has been used up  )

I used a grinder to make a powder out of tropical fish flakes, tad bites, dried blood worms, and, algae umm wafers. Had to use a rolling pin on the tad bites. 

I wondered if the tads are able to eat food in powder form. I'm guessing yes, since my tads haven't starved to death. Is there a benefit to the powder other than getting a bit of everything in it? Is it, maybe, easier for them to eat?

I've also tossed flies in the tad cups that seem to get eaten. Good or bad idea? Dusted?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Mitch said:


> Didn't know that, thanks. Also, why do all of this stuff when all of these ingredients, and more, can be found in high quality fish foods? For example, look at the ingredients on New Life Spectrum fish food:
> 
> Whole Antarctic krill meal, whole herring meal, wheat flour, squid meal, algae meal, soybean isolate, beta carotene, spirulina, garlic, vegetable and fruit extract (spinach, broccoli, red pepper, zucchini, tomato, pea, red and green cabbage, apple, apricot, mango, kiwi, papaya, peach, pear), vitamin a acetate, d-activated animal sterol (D3), vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine, DL alphatocophero (E), riboflavin supplement, folic acid, niacin, biotin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydro-chloride, l-ascorby-2-polyphosphate (stable C), choline chloride, ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, cobalt sulfate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate.


 
If I seem curt my apologies but you are asking me to distill a lot of research and literature out into a short type up... Did you read the article where gut loading was discussed in Leaf Litter..? 

As an example of one part of this discussion.... discussing mainly carotenoids... 

some are simply because the buyer thinks that it is automatically better with all of those things in it.. (example... spinach is a good source of beta carotene, and lutein but can inhibit calcium uptake as it contains oxalates... yet broccoli, pea and green cabbage are also sources of beta carotene and lutein.. cabbage can also be an issue as excess can result in thryroid disruptions... Red bell peppers provide red color.. the only problem is that the red is primarily due to capsanthin which has a very poor uptake as it is a polar carotenoid... so it's mainly supplies beta carotene.... 


It helps if one just doesn't buy into the hype.. and has a good understanding of what actual nutrients are being supplied and needed.. what is likely to be absorbed and what is needed to help it absorb... for example if you are feeding a diet low in fats/lipids then the uptake of carotenoids is going to be very poor.... as are the fat soluble vitamins.. (and the fat solubles compete for uptake as well..) 

Also, carotenoids tend to have limited uptake in the digestive tract so oversupplementing it doesn't do anything as it is just excreted in the fecal material... 

A small comment for a big topic... 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogface said:


> Thanks Doug (my button has been used up  )
> 
> I used a grinder to make a powder out of tropical fish flakes, tad bites, dried blood worms, and, algae umm wafers. Had to use a rolling pin on the tad bites.
> 
> ...


Actually a number of tadpole can also supplement thier feeding methods by a form of filtration feeding (see for example, the discussion in Tadpoles by Altig and McDiarmid University of Chicago Press) or (see for example the large body of literature like SpringerLink - Oecologia, Volume 39, Number 3 ).. I am not aware of it has been shown that dendrobatid tadpoles in general can do it or they are just detrital feeding as it settles. 

Ed


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

There is a lot of very good products out there for the fish hobby. Take advantage of them. Frozen blood worms especially are a great way to add extra protein to the tads diet as well as reduce incidence of cannibalism where tads are raised communally.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

live blackworms are also very good method... if you keep a few in with the tadpoles, the tadpoles will suck them down and this way you can keep a constant supply of animal protein in with the tadpoles. 

I know a European frogger that uses tiny pieces of earthworms. 

In the older days, a number of breeders used daphnia as it performed two functions.. it gave an indication of water quality (if conditions went south the daphnia die before the tadpoles) and if the tadpole catch them, they eat them. 

Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for the info, guys.

I have a leuc tank and an aratus tank, both with nice ponds. My plan is to allow them to transport. I haven't decided yet if I'll tank raise the tads or pull them. 



> Take advantage of them. Frozen blood worms especially are a great way to add extra protein to the tads diet as well as reduce incidence of cannibalism where tads are raised communally.


Are you saying that if I provide enough protein for the tads, will they be less likely to cannibalize and I could let them tank raise in the pond? I suggested it in another thread (saying I read it from Ed) and was told I misunderstood Ed's post. Would you guys clarify? Thanks


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

frogface said:


> Thanks for the info, guys.
> 
> I have a leuc tank and an aratus tank, both with nice ponds. My plan is to allow them to transport. I haven't decided yet if I'll tank raise the tads or pull them.
> 
> ...


Most cannibalism comes from the fact that tads do not have enough protein in their diet. With a proper supply of high protein food(live or frozen) cannibalism can be avoided and in my experience and that of people who I trust, tank raised tads come out bigger and healthier than tads raised in small rearing containers. Alot of what we consider to be accepted knowledge of tad/frog behavior is actually more the result of improper husbandry or false assumptions rather than hard and fast facts. I believe Glen(FrogFreaks) has actually had very good results lately with tank raised Tincs.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogface said:


> Thanks for the info, guys.
> Are you saying that if I provide enough protein for the tads, will they be less likely to cannibalize and I could let them tank raise in the pond? I suggested it in another thread (saying I read it from Ed) and was told I misunderstood Ed's post. Would you guys clarify? Thanks


A couple of years ago now.. I ran some tests on the basis that protein is a limiting food nutrient in bromeliads and I chose R. ventrimaculatus to test this out as they are notorious for being cannibalisting as tadpoles (as well as engaging in social parasitism).. I ran a series of trial in which I housed tadpoles at different densities, in different sized enclosures ranging from 6 ounce yougurt cups to about 2.5 gallons in a ten gallon aquarium.. the densities ranged from one tadpole to up to 5 tadpoles in an enclosure. 
As an example I kept 5 tadpoles in a half filled quart yogurt container through metamorphosis without any cannibalism by keeping live blackworms in with them. The key I think is the issue that thier enviroments are considered to be nutrient poor so cannibalism is a survivial trait.. (see for example http://www.phyllomedusa.esalq.usp.br/articles/volume8/number1/814150.pdf and http://www.bio-nica.info/Biblioteca/Poelman2007Dendrobatids.pdf )

Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Many, many thanks fellas! I think I'll let these frogs tank raise their tads and see how it goes. For me, it just seems better than having tads in cups. Don't know yet if it's better for me or them. We shall see. 

eta: Thanks for the reading suggestions. Very interesting.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Mitch said:


> Pollen? What's the nutritional value of the stuff? Isn't it just encased plant sperm?


Bee Pollen is generally considered very nutritious and is found at every health food store. The list of vitamins, amino acids, and minerals is actually quite extensive. Found this on Ehow. _Bee pollen is a complete food containing all the nutrients necessary for sustaining life. These nutrients include varying amounts of essential amino acids, all B vitamins, lecithin, trace minerals, iron, manganese, zinc, folic acid, enzymes, antioxidants, vitamins C and E, and flavanoids._



Ed said:


> And this oxidizes any fat soluble vitamins.. or even non-fat soluble vitamins.. Think about it.... In addition, it creates rancid oils and fats, these are a problem as they have different metabolic effects... If you are going to do this, do not dust the flies, do not cook the flies, freeze them and then let them freeze dry.. or just use fresh flies.
> 
> Becareful when using the grinder and this can heat up the materials resulting in oxidation of the nutrients as well.


That makes a lot of sense Ed. Thanks. I do use the grinder more like the "pulse" setting on a blender. 



Ed said:


> There are less expensive methods to supply protein other than pollens (and yes tadpoles are known to forage for pollen as a source of protein..) such as a good grade fish food.. as these are palatable, and due to the method of processing easily digested...
> Ed


I feel it supplies much more than just a source of protein. Sure there are cheaper sources of protein. Bee pollen is supposed to be very digestible.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> Bee Pollen is generally considered very nutritious and is found at every health food store. The list of vitamins, amino acids, and minerals is actually quite extensive. Found this on Ehow. _Bee pollen is a complete food containing all the nutrients necessary for sustaining life. These nutrients include varying amounts of essential amino acids, all B vitamins, lecithin, trace minerals, iron, manganese, zinc, folic acid, enzymes, antioxidants, vitamins C and E, and flavanoids._
> I feel it supplies much more than just a source of protein. Sure there are cheaper sources of protein. Bee pollen is supposed to be very digestible.


don't always believe the hype.. there are extreme variations in the analysis of bee pollens depending on the origin of the pollen.. for example it can actually contain no vitamin C... or have significant levels of vitamin C.. it's digestiability can range below 50%.. as for being a complete amino acid source it again depends on the source of the pollen as it can be low in one or more essential amino acids.. 
Try google scholar instead of just google... see these examples... 
ScienceDirect - Journal of Food Composition and Analysis : Chemical composition and botanical evaluation of dried bee pollen pellets
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/113/12/2479.full.pdf 
Vitamin C enhancement of brood rearing by caged honeybees fed a chemically defined diet - Herbert - 2005 - Archives of Insect Biochemistry and Physiology - Wiley Online Library

And this is before we even get to the idea that the animal in question can digest the particular pollen you are using in your supplement... just as there is variation in thier nutritional quality.. there are variations between species and pollens in thier digestiability.. by animals other than bees... If it isn't digested well then it isn't a good source of nutrition... And all because the pollen walls itself breaks down doesn't mean that the protein is digested well by the target animal..or is really a complete food source... 


Just because it is found at every heath food store should not mean that it is healthy... nor does it mean that the current food fad has it right.. for an extreme example at one time it was considered healthy to ingest radium as a tonic.. (see for example Medicine: Radium Drinks - TIME )... 

There is nothing wrong with looking for a better source of nutrition for an animal (lord knows, I've spent a lot of time looking at it..) but you need to be very careful before buying the hype in the nutrition store, remember those are to a large extent unregulated nutritional supplements and the analysis on the lable may not match the product in the container.... 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed, if I were really buying into the hype about bee pollen I would be trying it as a stand alone feed because way too many sites try to build it up as natures most perfect food. In stead I am looking at it as a supplement that may be adding some amino acids and vitamins to the mix.
I did look around on google scholar. I did find that bee pollen can vary widely as to the amount of vitamins, amino acids, etc. I pretty much expected that would be true, as with any unregulated, herbal type supplement. This is part of the reason I try to put many different things into the mix. You mention the possible lack of vitamin C in bee pollen. My hope is that this is being shored up by other ingredients. The Chlorella has vitamin C as does the mix of fish foods included. I also looked up bee pollen digestability on google scholar. The second entry stated that it was found to be 50 to 100 percent digestible by even by animals that don't usually eat it. SpringerLink - Plant Systematics and Evolution, Volume 222, Numbers 1-4 This is excepting hummingbirds that do not digest it well at all. As it is a part of pretty much any tadpoles diet in the wild, I would hope that it's got to be somewhat digestible.

1) Question number one I have for you is this. Do you feel this is a completely useless supplement to be adding or are you stating that it is just overkill, and/or can be done cheaper? When purchased as a fresh, refrigerated, granulated form, it is quite cheap. I spent about $2.50 on a bag that is way more than I need. So are you saying it really should be left out completely? 

2) Granted heating the flies is bad. I will now leave them out completely, but throw a few live ones straight into the tad containers. I will also look into bloodwoms and blackworms as another protein. It was stated several times throughout the thread that I should be taking adsvantage of some of the quality fish food products on the market. I have been using Ocean Nutrition brand in my reefs for years. The have a good rep amongst reefers. Here is an ingredients list of just the Formula one. 
Ingredients
  Salmon fillets, Euphasia pacifica plankton, squid, wheat germ, tuna eggs, Euphasia superba plankton, wheat flour, sea clams, kelp, adult brine shrimp, brine shrimp nauplii, soya-lecithin, MPAXTM (Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaïne, TL-Tryptophan)), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments.
Guaranteed Analysis
Protein (min) 54.6%
Fiber (max) 0.5%
Fat (min) 11.8%
Ash (max.) 5.8%
Moisture (max.) 7.7%
Here is a link to all the others. Ocean Nutrition
In my reefs I use a mix of all 5 formulas. 
Wouldn't this be a good mix to be using or do you recommend a different, better brand?

3) No mention has been made of the mix of three different algae powders I use, (chlorella, spirulina, and Klamath Lake blue green algae). Do you feel this is a useful addition at all?

Guess that's all I've got for now. Thanks for help in improving the nutrition I am able to supply.


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

I have actually had very good success utilizing many of the Cichlid formulations since they already come with a heavy protein dose being meat based. I alternate this with Spirulina based flakes and a product called Super Color flakes from Omega One( The primary ingredient of this product is whole salmon which is a good source of natural pigments to maintain color in red and orange frogs)


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Doug,

Sorry if I came off the wrong way as I feeling pretty cruddy.. and all I could think was here goes another craze... 





Pumilo said:


> Ed, if I were really buying into the hype about bee pollen I would be trying it as a stand alone feed because way too many sites try to build it up as natures most perfect food. In stead I am looking at it as a supplement that may be adding some amino acids and vitamins to the mix.


I got a different opinion based on the way it was posted.. it sounded like an ad for how great it has to be for you.... 



Pumilo said:


> You mention the possible lack of vitamin C in bee pollen. My hope is that this is being shored up by other ingredients. The Chlorella has vitamin C as does the mix of fish foods included. I also looked up bee pollen digestability on google scholar. The second entry stated that it was found to be 50 to 100 percent digestible by even by animals that don't usually eat it. SpringerLink - Plant Systematics and Evolution, Volume 222, Numbers 1-4 This is excepting hummingbirds that do not digest it well at all. As it is a part of pretty much any tadpoles diet in the wild, I would hope that it's got to be somewhat digestible.


Doug, that paper includes digestion by invertebrates as part of the estimate for how well it is digested.. and the upper levels are due to flower feeding bats.. most of the other vertebrates checked were much lower.. so that is in reality the breakdown of the pollen walls.. then we have to look at how digestiable the contents of the pollen are.... this is seperate from the pollen walls.. this runs much lower running from around 40% to a high of 80% (in pollen feeding specialists..) and again this varies with pollen (people are on the low end by the way..).. so if we were looking at how much protien actually ends up being digested let us hypothetically assign a value of 50% for the tadpoles being able to digest pollen (as it is easy) and then assing a value of 50% of the protein digested..so as for value.. .5 x .5 = 0.25% total protein digested... this compares with the standard of 86% for casein (which is used as a standard).. Pollens can also be totally lacking in phenylalanine and tryptophan... 




Pumilo said:


> 1) Question number one I have for you is this. Do you feel this is a completely useless supplement to be adding or are you stating that it is just overkill, and/or can be done cheaper? When purchased as a fresh, refrigerated, granulated form, it is quite cheap. I spent about $2.50 on a bag that is way more than I need. So are you saying it really should be left out completely?


Based on the wide variation in nutrional value versus other more standardized and available nutritional sources to me it is unnecessary and overkill as well as a potential risk of pesticide/herbicide introduction. http://www.biobees.com/library/pesticides_GM_threats/What_Have_Pesticides.pdf



Pumilo said:


> 2) Granted heating the flies is bad. I will now leave them out completely, but throw a few live ones straight into the tad containers. I will also look into bloodwoms and blackworms as another protein. It was stated several times throughout the thread that I should be taking adsvantage of some of the quality fish food products on the market. I have been using Ocean Nutrition brand in my reefs for years. The have a good rep amongst reefers. Here is an ingredients list of just the Formula one.
> Ingredients
> Salmon fillets, Euphasia pacifica plankton, squid, wheat germ, tuna eggs, Euphasia superba plankton, wheat flour, sea clams, kelp, adult brine shrimp, brine shrimp nauplii, soya-lecithin, MPAXTM (Marine Protein Amino eXtract: fish meals, select amino acids (DL-Arginine, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Betaïne, TL-Tryptophan)), vitamins (ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), biotin (Vitamin H), Vitamin B12, riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), tocopherol acetate (vitamin E), panthotenic acid (Vitamin B5), menadione (Vitamin K3), folacin (Vitamin B9), cholicalciferol (Vitamin D3), niacin (Vitamin B3), retinol (Vitamin A1), pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)), minerals (potassium iodide, iron oxide, manganese sulfate, magnesium oxide, zinc sulfate), ethoxyquin, carotenoid pigments.
> Guaranteed Analysis
> ...


There have even been swings in what is considered the optimal fish food to use (and I remember when these products were first marketed).. for a long time Tetra-min was a standard and then there was a big swing to Aquarian brand and now the hot one is Ocean Nutrition Brand.... 
Any good quality fish food is acceptable.. as long as it is fresh.. as with supplements these need to be replaced on a frequent basis and the freshest product available should always be purchased and used. A good quality fish food is actually a complete food source for the tadpoles which renders other additions unnecessary. 



Pumilo said:


> 3) No mention has been made of the mix of three different algae powders I use, (chlorella, spirulina, and Klamath Lake blue green algae). Do you feel this is a useful addition at all? .


Used as a powder I am abivalent but my sense is that it really isn't that great a method as the cell walls are going to be damaged by the drying process (which doesn't affect pollens..) so you are going to lose a lot of the nutritional value into the water.. Now if it was part of gel diet that would be a much different story... 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

mantisdragon91 said:


> I have actually had very good success utilizing many of the Cichlid formulations since they already come with a heavy protein dose being meat based. I alternate this with Spirulina based flakes and a product called Super Color flakes from Omega One( The primary ingredient of this product is whole salmon which is a good source of natural pigments to maintain color in red and orange frogs)


Thanks Mantisdragon, My freshwater fish guru highly recommends Omega One. His opinion is that Omega One Super Color flakes is the best dry food available for freshwater fish. Salmon fillets is the first ingredient listed on my Ocean Nutrition Formula One. It is in all five of the flake foods I've been using.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks for your input Ed. Somehow I had missed it! I think I was answering MantisDragon at the same time you answered me. Anyway, appreciate it.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> Thanks for your input Ed. Somehow I had missed it! I think I was answering MantisDragon at the same time you answered me. Anyway, appreciate it.


your welcome

Ed


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## FrogBoyMike (Aug 25, 2012)

This has been one extremely informative thread! Thanks very much to you all


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

i concur lol



FrogBoyMike said:


> This has been one extremely informative thread! Thanks very much to you all


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Ed said:


> If you are going to do this, do not dust the flies, do not cook the flies, freeze them and then let them freeze dry.. or just use fresh flies.


I've often used fresh flies with my tads...but the option of freeze drying them sounds like something I would be interested in trying. Would you care to explain the process? Once freeze dried, can they then be converted to room temperature for storage, or do they need to remain frozen?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I saw this thread spring back to life so I figured I would post the simplified recipe I am using now. I am very pleased with the results. I am using it for all my thumbnails.

1) 60% to 80% Ocean Nutrition Formula One Flake (not pellet) 
2) 10% to 20% Ocean Nutrition Formula Two Flake (not pellet)
3) 10% to 20% Freeze Dried Cyclop Eeze

I use a coffee grinder on the pulse setting to powder the food. The pulse setting is used to prevent heating of the foods.
The only reason I choose to powder it is so that I get an even blend with every feeding.

Remember, for the best results, treat your tad food just like your vitamin powders. (Dark, dry, refrigerated, and replaced every 6 months)


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> I saw this thread spring back to life so I figured I would post the simplified recipe I am using now. I am very pleased with the results. I am using it for all my thumbnails.
> 
> 1) 60% to 80% Ocean Nutrition Formula One Flake (not pellet)
> 2) 10% to 20% Ocean Nutrition Formula Two Flake (not pellet)
> ...


Why flakes and not the pellets?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

varanoid said:


> Why flakes and not the pellets?


Each brand I have checked, that offers a flake and the same product in a pellet, uses different ingredients in the pellet. In the 3 different brands I have compared, the pellets have less protein, and also, fewer sources of quality protein.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Each brand I have checked, that offers a flake and the same product in a pellet, uses different ingredients in the pellet. In the 3 different brands I have compared, the pellets have less protein, and also, fewer sources of quality protein.


So it is not actually the same product, even if it is marketed as such is what you are saying?.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

varanoid said:


> So it is not actually the same product, even if it is marketed as such is what you are saying?.


Exactly. Ocean Nutrition Formula One Flake, has a different set of ingredients than Ocean Nutrition Formula One Pellets. Most of the ingredients are similar, but the pellets do not have as many different sources of protein.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Good convo.


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