# " bruno" pumilio



## cairo11 (Jan 8, 2011)

Just curious to know if there is still some froggers out there who might have sustained and still working with some of the 04 amazing pets " bruno" pums


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Most of what was imported as "Bruno" was later revealed to be the green "Chiriqui Grande" population. I'm not sure there were ever any true Bruno frogs in the hobby...but EricM would have more info on those specifics.


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

The first shipments of pumilio that came in 04 did not come with any site data for business reasons of the exporter. That being said we as hobbyists are left to classify the frogs as best we can. Using the pumilio morph guide on Marcus's Tropical Experience site the bruno morph was the most likely fit and thus was used until more information came out regarding the collection site, which proved to be chiriqui grande. I showed a number of these frogs to Chris van der Lingen at the NAAC conference and he seemed to think they were a bit to large to be bruno but very similar in phenotype. 

Hope this helps
eRic


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

We spoke to Chris about them in Panama actually Eric....

hey, you know of any still around?

'We' are interested in working with them.

S


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

Did Chris have any other information or thoughts regarding them?

I have some growing up, hope to have some pairs around frogday.

thanks
ERic


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

U know, honestly I hope Ray or one of the others will chime in....

I recall him speaking about them, and their size, but with his accent :-0, I dont want to misquote. I didnt 'get' it all....sorry.

I remember that import though...and the controversy, and now the lack of any Bruno or Chiriqui around at all....now [where did they all go frogger friends?? ]

I wish you luck Eric.

Mail me a pair when you are ready.... I cant make FD though....so Fedex will have to do ;-)

Shawn


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## eazyezcape (Nov 29, 2010)

sports_doc said:


> I wish you luck Eric.
> 
> Mail me a pair when you are ready.... I cant make FD though....so Fedex will have to do ;-)
> 
> Shawn


I second that, Shawn. Though, I hope to make FD this year, so save them for me.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Unfortunately, I lost my male this past year (below) and transferred the remaining females to another hobbyist to work with.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

These guys are awesome, extremely variable. Unfortunately I couldn't track down any females and wound up letting them go. Here are the 2 males I had from Eric.


















It's too bad they are so under appreciated. The colors were much nicer in person.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

as you can see i had one of the most spectacular females. the male by comparison was pretty bland, but hey theyre still great looking frogs. unfortunately (like many others whove commented here) i lost my pair. the central heat broke, then the back up heat broke, and i lost everything within about 18" of the floor. 

james


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Wow your male looks an awful lot like mine. Hopefully that's not the case if you lost it however ;( It's too bad there hasn't been much success with this population.

On a side note, what's the deal with the Chiriqui Rivers? I haven't really seen anyone with them or heard much on if they are the same or different.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

James, if you picked that spotted one up at the last NWFF...I believe I had my eye on it for the entire show.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

thedude said:


> On a side note, what's the deal with the Chiriqui Rivers? I haven't really seen anyone with them or heard much on if they are the same or different.


One in the same, I believe. The Rio Chiriqui is actually up in Costa Rica.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thedude said:


> Wow your male looks an awful lot like mine. Hopefully that's not the case if you lost it however ;(


nope. i got the male from eric in trade for an extra darklands



skylsdale said:


> James, if you picked that spotted one up at the last NWFF...I believe I had my eye on it for the entire show.


nope. those pictures are pretty old. i lost he frogs over a year ago. i picked up the female in a deal with another frogger where she was thrown in for a minimal charge (this was 2+ years ago)

im working hard to rebuild the lost parts of my collection (plus a few new ones) and the chiriqui are one of the harder ones to come across. 

james


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

actually come to think of it i think eric may have said something about that male not having worked out and having been sent back to him. so it might be the same. its been awhile and im not the best at remembering those sorts of fine details discussed on the phone.
james


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

skylsdale said:


> One in the same, I believe. The Rio Chiriqui is actually up in Costa Rica.


Interesting. Really wish we could get better info when frogs come in. That's hard to do when people are willing to spend so much on a mix of popas though 




james67 said:


> actually come to think of it i think eric may have said something about that male not having worked out and having been sent back to him. so it might be the same. its been awhile and im not the best at remembering those sorts of fine details discussed on the phone.
> james


I didn't send mine back to Eric. Considering both were from him it's not surprising odd patterns pop up on multiple frogs. I had just never seen any others with coloring like that. I wonder how many people are working with separate bloodlines.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

thedude said:


> Interesting. Really wish we could get better info when frogs come in. That's hard to do when people are willing to spend so much on a mix of popas though


It seems the price of those Popas is coming down, saw an add on KS for $80 each 6+ $65 each...for the record, I share most people's desire for better locale info...


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## ashb (Dec 9, 2009)

skylsdale said:


> One in the same, I believe. The Rio Chiriqui is actually up in Costa Rica.


The morph is actually 'Chiriqui Grande,' named after the town near which they are found on the mainland in Panama. 

This morph must have a high mortality rate, I lost my calling male from Eric as well...


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

james67 said:


> nope. i got the male from eric in trade for an extra darklands
> 
> 
> 
> nope. those pictures are pretty old. i lost he frogs over a year ago. i picked up the female in a deal with another frogger where she was thrown in for a minimal charge (this was 2+ years ago).


Actually, I just realized the spotted frog I was talking about was the one in thedude's picture.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

ashb said:


> The morph is actually 'Chiriqui Grande,' named after the town near which they are found on the mainland in Panama.


Right, but there is also a river that flows through near there...hence the reason people also call them "Rio Chiriqui." An incorrect name (as I already stated--the actual Rio Chiriqui is in Costa Rica), but one that people use. I believe there is a red Chiriqui Grande population as well, but don't remember if that was on the same side or across from the green population in relation to the river.


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## ashb (Dec 9, 2009)

skylsdale said:


> Right, but there is also a river that flows through near there...hence the reason people also call them "Rio Chiriqui." An incorrect name (as I already stated--the actual Rio Chiriqui is in Costa Rica), but one that people use. I believe there is a red Chiriqui Grande population as well, but don't remember if that was on the same side or across from the green population in relation to the river.



Oh I see what you're saying.

I've heard multiple things, but mainly that the red population is nearer to the coast and from a higher elevation area (northeast side of Cerro Pina de Arroz), whereas the green population is further inland. 

If I had to guess, I would say they (edit: "they" as in the red population) are on the same side of the river, but don't quote me on that...


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

skylsdale said:


> Right, but there is also a river that flows through near there...hence the reason people also call them "Rio Chiriqui." An incorrect name (as I already stated--the actual Rio Chiriqui is in Costa Rica), but one that people use. I believe there is a red Chiriqui Grande population as well, but don't remember if that was on the same side or across from the green population in relation to the river.


as i remember it, that red morph is known as mancreek  both came in in the same shipment and were collected in close proximity to each other. 

heres a map showing both chiriqui grande (the town) and man creek (the red pointer thing)
they reside within 1.5 miles of each other









james


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

james67 said:


> as i remember it, that red morph is known as mancreek


Yeah, I refrained from opening that can of worms...


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## cairo11 (Jan 8, 2011)

Looking at the mirphguide and looking at the "mancreek" i have here and the rest Ice ever seen... They just dont match to that chiriqui red... Ir is it that our mancreek are indeed almirante which still dont look like the almirante we have here...


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

I'm not sure what the situation is anymore, but the red granular backed pumilio was easily found on the east side of Chiriqui Grande itself. Similar frogs were also found in the hills behind Chiriqui Grande (not all over, but in pockets). The green ones are found further inland right along the side of the road that led into Chiriqui Grande. In fact, you could find them living in the rocks used to build up the road. Pretty variable in color patterns. That was a long time ago, so I'm not sure what still exists. And I'm sure there could easily be (or used to be) other pockets of green pumilio in the area.


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

red and granular from higher elevation

what do you think Chuck?


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi Eric,
Possible to get a closer shot? Tentatively, I don't think I know this frog, esp. if it is truly granular in the same way as a Chiriqui Grande. It is always difficult to tell from a photo what the texture of the skin is like.


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

Here are some more shots of these representing the maximum I can get out of my novice skills and camera.

These were collected around the same time as the chiriquis and they were gathered from a nearby "mountain". I got a small group, some dark orange and some lighter as in the shots. 

They have a higher degree of granulation than other pumilios I've worked with.

any thoughts would be great
thanks
Eric


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

Thanks for the new photos Eric. I still am not sure what you have there. From the town of Chiriqui Grande, the only mountains close by that I can think of would be the one leading up to the storage tanks, and the frogs there are much like the ones in the town itself. Grey legs and a duller dark red. A little more inland yet still fairly close by, there is a road to Rambala, This is a area that goes up into a mountain. The frogs are again granular, but a little less so than the Chiriqui Grande frogs. They are also usually a dull orange frog with grey legs, but here you do see blue in the legs of some animals.
I've seen some Man Creeks with slightly granular skin, although even in the photo yours do seem a bit more granular and the colors a little different. In life, are yours very different from that population? In color they seem to be more aligned with those. 
I'm sure there must be more areas and pockets with red frogs heading to the east from Chiriqui Grande. This area might be where you should focus on. 
Maybe there's even a lot more road access since I've been there. Maybe Ray or Shawn has an idea since they were there very recently.
Sorry that I can't be of much help. I think it points out the difficulty of trying to put a location on a frog. And I know you already know, you probably will never be sure. They are pretty frogs though.


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