# Fruit fly media question?



## MichaelG (May 11, 2009)

I have been raising my own fly cultures for years but have never mixed up my own media for production. Some of the recipes use brewer's yeast, it seems to be in large portions, also have noticed some mentioning active brewer's yeast.
What is best active or non active? 

Thanks,
M


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

I use brewers yeast in my mix, then sprinkle active dry yeast on top once it has settled. Hope this helps.


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## MichaelG (May 11, 2009)

Thanks, picked up both to give a trial and error sample. Your suggestion sounds like the way to go. Active yeast might produce too much co2 and alcohol.


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

Use brewers yeast for mixing the media. I obtain mine from Josh's. You can get a 5 lb. bag for about $10. You only use the bakers yeast for melanogaster flies. For them use use the brewers to mix up the media then sprinkle a few grains of bakers on the top of the mix in the cultures. Heidii don't need the bakers yeast on top. It's pretty easy to tell the two types of yeast apart. The brewer's yeast is a tan or off white powder form while the bakers is like tiny round balls. I just buy a little bottle of bakers yeast at any super market and it will last a long time.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

the difference is that active yeast does not need to be heated in order to start growing. normal yeast usually needs to be heated to about 90 degrees F to start growing.
this is why i use active dry. i HATE medias that need to be heated and set out to cool. its a huge hassle IMO. 

heres the new recipe ive been using with outstanding results.

1qt powdered potato flakes
1 cup powdered sugar
1.5tsp methyl paraben

then i add water
and generously sprinkle active dry yeast on top.

this method has produced NO smell and all have had very good production compared to some other pre-mixed medias available. plus, its dirt cheap. im actually about to make a 5gal bucket full. the potatoes can be pricey when making large quantities but these can be ordered from food distributors as well, if you know someone at a restaurant that will add it to their food order. us foods price for 54lbs was something like $26 last time i checked.

james


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stingfrog said:


> Use brewers yeast for mixing the media. I obtain mine from Josh's. You can get a 5 lb. bag for about $10. You only use the bakers yeast for melanogaster flies. For them use use the brewers to mix up the media then sprinkle a few grains of bakers on the top of the mix in the cultures. Heidii don't need the bakers yeast on top. It's pretty easy to tell the two types of yeast apart. The brewer's yeast is a tan or off white powder form while the bakers is like tiny round balls. I just buy a little bottle of bakers yeast at any super market and it will last a long time.


Actually neither species of fruitfly "needs" the active yeast added to the culture as they carry yeast and bacteria from the older cultures. The live yeast is added to the culture to prevent the risk of overgrowth by other microorganisms killing the culture. This is the reason it should be used for both species. 
The brewer's or nutritional yeast is added to the culture to increase the protien content of the media which increases the yield. 

Ed


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## MichaelG (May 11, 2009)

Wow,
Thank you all, this has been very helpful.


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## snooknfrogs (Sep 25, 2009)

Hey James,

Where do you get the methyl paraben?

JP


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## Austin P (May 13, 2009)

You can get it from a few places that I know of, one of those is Ed's Fly Meat which is advertised here.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

joshsfrogs also carries it

james


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## snooknfrogs (Sep 25, 2009)

Does substituting the methyl paraben for vinegar make for a bad odor? I've read a TON of threads about this and it sounds like using vinegar will do the same thing the methyl paraben or tegosept does, help retard the growth of mold. But if vinegar might make it smell... well that's not good!!!


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

I use the methyl paraban. I personaly don't like the smell of the vinegar. Just don't use too much. I hear that if you do it can make the flies sterile but I don't know personally. I use a recipe that I found on here somewhere that works great for me and go by what it says. Sorry but I can't remember where it was but if you research it I'm sure you could find it. It consists of potato flakes, brewers yeast, powdered sugar and methyl paraban. To that I add a couple of other things for personal preference and it does great.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

how do you guys mix all yoru ingredients? in a large bucket? in small amounts? do you guys use a mixer?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Julio said:


> how do you guys mix all yoru ingredients? in a large bucket? in small amounts? do you guys use a mixer?


 
Go to your local restaurant store and get a clear plastic "dry food" container...it has a plastic lid that suctions to the container making it airtight (mite proof).

They are anywhere from 2 foot high and round to 3 foot or so....I got the big one.

Throw all your ingrediants in there and snap the lid on. Shake the container or even kinda roll it around and it mixes. I also bought a small scoop at the restaurant store as well. Helps to scoop out the same quick portions when you are making bunches of cultures evey week.

Then the stuff I throw into the container that needs a little "pre-chopping"...like dry cat food....lucky charms that went stale cause the GF left the top open, oats.....old trail mix...pasta - all goes into the Magic Bullet food grinder ($50.00 bath and beyond)....and grind away.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Unless you are sterilizing the potato flakes, I wouldn't worry about the dry media being kept in a mite proof container as they are probably already in the potato flakes. Otherwise that is pretty much how I mix my dry ingredients. 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ed said:


> Unless you are sterilizing the potato flakes, I wouldn't worry about the dry media being kept in a mite proof container as they are probably already in the potato flakes.


 
Agreed....but I still go through the motions and try to do everything possible for peace of mind......


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

"Paranoia runs deep.

Into your life it will creep.

It starts when you are always afraid.

Step out of line, the Mite comes,

And takes you cultures away."

apologies to other fans... 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ed....you ARE olde school, my friend. 1967-ish??

Here's one for ya:

"Caught me crawlin', baby 
Crawlin' 'round your door 
Seein' everything I want 
I'm gonna crawl on your floor 
Let's crawl 
And I rule the culture cup
C'mon, give me what I want 
Ain't gonna crawl no more 

Alright, crawl a while 

C'mon crawl 
C'mon crawl 
Get on out there on your hands and knees, baby 
Crawl all over me 
Just like the mites on the culture cup wall 
Ooo, we gonn' crawl, one more".


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

*OT Re: Fruit fly media question?*

Are you referring to the Doors version or the Muddy Water's version? 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

John Hooker wrote the song but only Jim "the Lizard King" Morrison could really bring it to life...

to recap:

so far we got frogs, flies, mites, kingsnakes and lizards.......see how that all ties in so nicely?


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## Dragonfly (Dec 5, 2007)

If you don't add the chunky extras, you can actually shift the dry ingredients... depends on how many cultures you will be making. I am using nutritional yeast instead of brewer's yeast (as recommemded by a good frogger) - purchase it at the bulk foods in the regular discount grocery store... much much less expensive than brewers yeast and omg do I have more ffs using this.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dragonfly said:


> If you don't add the chunky extras, you can actually shift the dry ingredients... depends on how many cultures you will be making. I am using nutritional yeast instead of brewer's yeast (as recommemded by a good frogger) - purchase it at the bulk foods in the regular discount grocery store... much much less expensive than brewers yeast and omg do I have more ffs using this.


The only real difference between brewer's yeast and nutritional yeast is that nutritional yeast has been cultured to have a different taste... they are both Saccharomyces cerevesiae.... and if you look around you can get brewer's yeast very inexpensively. 

Ed


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

I figured rather than start a new thread, I'd just jump on this one. 

Why use sugar in the cultures? Does it have a nutritive value?


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Ed said:


> The only real difference between brewer's yeast and nutritional yeast is that nutritional yeast has been cultured to have a different taste... they are both Saccharomyces cerevesiae.... and if you look around you can get brewer's yeast very inexpensively.
> 
> Ed


True, but I find where I get my supplies at (bulkfoods.com), the nutritional yeast is only a wee bit more, and it doesn't smell so gawd awful and make me cough from the dust as much.



mtolypetsupply said:


> I figured rather than start a new thread, I'd just jump on this one.
> 
> Why use sugar in the cultures? Does it have a nutritive value?


The sugar provides food for the yeast to grow on, which the larvae and flies eat.


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

Catfur said:


> The sugar provides food for the yeast to grow on, which the larvae and flies eat.


I asked about the sugar because I haven't used sugar once in my cultures, and they still produce, just using plain ol' unadulterated potato flakes. Then I got some brewers' yeast, mixed that in, didn't see any difference in production. Since I don't use the active dry yeast, and brewer's yeast is reportedly killed yeast, I guess I don't need it because there is no live yeast which feeds on the sugars?

Recently I've been told that one function of the media is to gutload the flies.

Would someone break down for us exactly what each media ingredient provides, in one small list, and maybe sticky that? I've been sifting through the media threads, and it's in there in dribs and drabs, but it's truly a labor of love disseminating all the bits from all the threads!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Catfur said:


> True, but I find where I get my supplies at (bulkfoods.com), the nutritional yeast is only a wee bit more, and it doesn't smell so gawd awful and make me cough from the dust as much.


I wonder if different sources have different particulate sizes.. I haven't had that problem and the one I use reminds me of beer.. so it isn't really a bad odor in my book... now the spirulina I add smells less than appetizing.. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mtolypetsupply said:


> I asked about the sugar because I haven't used sugar once in my cultures, and they still produce, just using plain ol' unadulterated potato flakes.


They will still produce without the sugar.. see below



mtolypetsupply said:


> Then I got some brewers' yeast, mixed that in, didn't see any difference in production. Since I don't use the active dry yeast, and brewer's yeast is reportedly killed yeast, I guess I don't need it because there is no live yeast which feeds on the sugars?


There are things that speed up the colonization of the yeast and adding sugar is one of those items. It serves two purposes as it allows for a faster growth of yeasts which helps to control the problem of other organisms getting into the cultures (which using active dry yeasts also helps prevent) as other microbes in the media can reduce or wipe out the cultures. The yeast can use the starch in the potatoes but it isn't as efficient as the sugar. 

The flies are also going to transfer microbes including yeast from the previous cultures but the conditions in the cultures changes over time which means that the microbes population can be different over time (and it is these changes that can cause significant odor differences in cultures). The prevention of other microbes from getting a firm foothold can be reduced or prevented through the addition of live yeast as this significantly swings the population to yeast at the start of the culture. 

The better the nutrition the more eggs a female will lay.. in addition, it is easily possible to produce flies that nutritionally inferior with good production, the addition of brewer's yeast and items like spirulina can help produce a fly that is more nutritionally balanced. There is a lot on fruit fly media, and its effect on production etc in the literature of one cares to dig back enough.. 



mtolypetsupply said:


> Recently I've been told that one function of the media is to gutload the flies.


What do you mean by gut load? 




mtolypetsupply said:


> Would someone break down for us exactly what each media ingredient provides, in one small list, and maybe sticky that? I've been sifting through the media threads, and it's in there in dribs and drabs, but it's truly a labor of love disseminating all the bits from all the threads!


In a very short list at its most basic.. (and I'm going to miss some as its time for dinner...) 

starch (potato, cereal grain.. etc) = basic source of starch to support yeast and larval growth over the course of the culture 

powdered sugar = changes osmotic potential of culture allowing for better yeast growth, reduces other microbe colonization, rapid food for yeast 

brewer's yeast/nutritional yeast = higher protien content allows for better fruit fly production (as protien levels are a limiting ingredient) 

spirulina = source of carotenoids and pre-vitamin A for the flies (doesn't do as much good with respect to vitamin A unless the flies are kept in the light)

Ed

active/live yeast = help get a higher level of yeast colonization to reduce other microbe infiltration.


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

Thanks for all the info! Ed, I want to be you when I grow up. 

Added some sugar to cultures I made today. We'll see how that goes.

RE: "gut load" I used that as a generic term for making the prey item more nutritious. Probably wrong in this context, what would be the correct term?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mtolypetsupply said:


> Thanks for all the info! Ed, I want to be you when I grow up.
> 
> Added some sugar to cultures I made today. We'll see how that goes.
> 
> RE: "gut load" I used that as a generic term for making the prey item more nutritious. Probably wrong in this context, what would be the correct term?


Technically that is not considered gut loading as exotic animal nutritionists use gut loading to describe attempting to modify the calcium/phosphorus ratios in feeder insects (it can't be done in fruit flies as they have a very efficient method of excreting excess calcium). With respect to the hobby, gut loading refers to additional nutrition provided my ingested food materials contained in the digestive tract.. 

As it is understood, true "gut loading" (as defined by the hobbyist) doesn't work well with fruit flies as the period of time anything staying in thier digestive tract is very short. 

With respect to ensuring the fly with the maximal nutritious levels, one can add a source of pre-retinoid carotenoid (I use spirulina) as well a good source of protien (brewer's or nutritious yeast) as well as culturing the flies to not have the fastest time to metamorphosis or potentially even having cultures that are not producing the maximal amount of flies as the older/larger larva actually exclude smaller larva from the areas of best nutrition in the media potentially resulting in flies that contain less than optimal nutritional levels..... 


Ed


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