# Spiders



## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Hey everyone,

I just received some love sphagnum moss from a seller on eBay who had lots of good reviews. The problem is that the moss is teeming with spiders. What's the best way to get rid of them before I put the moss into my whites tree frog tank.

Thanks

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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

bleach it!


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

I have read that bleaching sphagnum will kill it completely.

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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Spiders? What kind of spiders? Are you positive they aren't mites?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

or you could CO2 bomb it. i'm not sure if bleaching will kill sphagnum, i'm going to look into that.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Flame thrower.

John


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

goof901 said:


> bleach it!





goof901 said:


> or you could CO2 bomb it. i'm not sure if bleaching will kill sphagnum, i'm going to look into that.


So you just spout off information and advice without knowing whether it's harmful/beneficial, effective/ineffective? It's that type of shotgun approach that could end up harming frogs.
Would you bleach a piece of driftwood and have the bleach absorbed into the wood only to be released when the wood was in the viv with frogs??
Is this regurgitated info that you just heard with no personal experience in?
goof901 I'm not picking on you, just asking you to be careful with the advice you supply. Perhaps try to refrain from supplying advice unless you have actual experience with the original question posted.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Flame thrower.
> 
> John


I second that. Burn it haha I hate spiders! Right behind centipedes and earwigs. If they really are spiders maybe freezing it would help? Idk if that would kill the sphagnum or not. Maybe freeze then boil?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> So you just spout off information and advice without knowing whether it's harmful/beneficial, effective/ineffective? It's that type of shotgun approach that could end up harming frogs.
> Would you bleach a piece of driftwood and have the bleach absorbed into the wood only to be released when the wood was in the viv with frogs??
> Is this regurgitated info that you just heard with no personal experience in?


somehow, the first time i read it, i thought i saw selaginella, so i said bleach, but then on the second post, i saw it correctly and yeah. i apologize about misreading and will try to make sure i get the info right.


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

So far I have run around screaming like a girl, then I knocked a bunch outside, then more screaming, now the moss is locked in a box until a solution is found!

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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I would toss it.... Tell them to replace with out the spiders or there will be negitive feedback..... Snails, mites they can be delt with, spiders? Not so much.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

What about soaking in alcohol?


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I would not recommend to you but, my frogs eat spiders depending on size of spider and size of frog.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Place the moss into a large plastic freezer bag (at least half gallon). Add enough water to cover the moss, squeeze out as much air as possible, add several alka seltzer tablets, seal and place in a sink or bathtub (in case there is enough CO2 evolved to pop open the bag. Leave sit for at least 24 hours (if it pops bag open repeat again with less water). This will result in a high concentration of CO2 which should not harm the sphagnum. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> So you just spout off information and advice without knowing whether it's harmful/beneficial, effective/ineffective? It's that type of shotgun approach that could end up harming frogs.
> Would you bleach a piece of driftwood and have the bleach absorbed into the wood only to be released when the wood was in the viv with frogs??
> Is this regurgitated info that you just heard with no personal experience in?
> goof901 I'm not picking on you, just asking you to be careful with the advice you supply. Perhaps try to refrain from supplying advice unless you have actual experience with the original question posted.



I just had Deja Vu!!!!!!


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

fieldnstream said:


> I just had Deja Vu!!!!!!


That was an actual accident on my part... anyway, back on topic, I agree with what Ed said. Also, do you know if your source of sphagnum keeps it frog free?


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## KC3 (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi,
I don't know the type of spiders how big poisonous ect or how big your whites tree frog is but I used to feed mine spiders all the time and he absolutely loved them more then anything else I fed him and they were pretty big too. Might be worth a try if you don't think they'll harm your frog.


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## Zooxan (Jan 30, 2011)

Please post pics of the moss in an Co2 bomb bag or whatever name we come up with for Ed's contraption! I would find extreme amounts of amusement in watching the spiders running around screaming for their lives like we do when we find them.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Agreed. Lets get video not pics!


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Ed said:


> Place the moss into a large plastic freezer bag (at least half gallon). Add enough water to cover the moss, squeeze out as much air as possible, add several alka seltzer tablets, seal and place in a sink or bathtub (in case there is enough CO2 evolved to pop open the bag. Leave sit for at least 24 hours (if it pops bag open repeat again with less water). This will result in a high concentration of CO2 which should not harm the sphagnum.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


Thanks Ed! I knew you would chime in with a solution eventually! I will try this tonight.


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Haha I will have to place the bag in a sink and light the rim on fire just to ensure no escapees. I have no idea what kind of spiders they are, at least 4 types I have seen so far so I don't want to risk it with the frogs but I am sure they will clean up whatever I miss. My frogs the heroes of the house, the destroyers of eight eyed monsters.

The sphagnum is grown in a green house and is frog free.


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## Lifeguard (Jun 30, 2011)

I have used dry before. results were good.


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

I bought some of the better gro orchid moss from lowes because many people on this board seem to have had good results getting it to spring back to life so I am hoping the same will happen to me. I wanted to get some live stuff to help supplement the dry and really get things going fast.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> So you just spout off information and advice without knowing whether it's harmful/beneficial, effective/ineffective? It's that type of shotgun approach that could end up harming frogs.
> Would you bleach a piece of driftwood and have the bleach absorbed into the wood only to be released when the wood was in the viv with frogs??
> Is this regurgitated info that you just heard with no personal experience in?
> goof901 I'm not picking on you, just asking you to be careful with the advice you supply. Perhaps try to refrain from supplying advice unless you have actual experience with the original question posted.


If bleach is chlorine based like Clorox, doesn't the chlorine dissapate into the air like it does in water? 

I know in restaurants, we used sanitizer that was chlorine based and the health dept said you have to use cold water because warm water makes it evaporate out faster. Even with cold water though, it had to be changed out every few hours.

On a side note, Splenda is made by filtering sugar through chlorine and that's supposedly healthy.... don't ask me how though..LOL


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

I wouldn't count on the frogs to get the spiders. I've had an infestation in a viv that's been driving me nuts for a couple months now. I smoosh the villains whenever I see them and clear out their webs at every feeding (every other day or so) but there are always more.


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## Lifeguard (Jun 30, 2011)

Some people also say that small doses of radiation is healthy but... I wouldn't risk it.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JaredJ said:


> On a side note, Splenda is made by filtering sugar through chlorine and that's supposedly healthy.... don't ask me how though..LOL


They don't actually filter sugar through chlorine. They have to modify the sugar molecule to protect specific parts of it before they chlorinate it. The chlorine ion replaces some of the hydroxy groups on the sugar molecules and then modifications used to protect specific portions of it are removed. The chlorine ions replacing the targeted hydroxyl portions of the molecule enable it to fit the sweet taste receptors better resulting in an increased perception of sweetness while preventing the molecule from being broken by the enzymes used to convert sucrose to energy. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Lifeguard said:


> Some people also say that small doses of radiation is healthy but... I wouldn't risk it.


Do you go out into the sun? If you do, then you are getting a small dose of radiation. If you have ever been in a basement over bed rock then you've been exposed to small doses of raditation.. If you've ever been close to a fire, or used a light bulb, you've been exposed to radiation... 
In fact, you can't avoid exposure to small doses of radiation. 

Some comments

Ed


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

This thread has gone in a very strange direction from spiders in moss to the chemistry of sugars and the abundance of radiation,


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Ed said:


> They don't actually filter sugar through chlorine. They have to modify the sugar molecule to protect specific parts of it before they chlorinate it. The chlorine ion replaces some of the hydroxy groups on the sugar molecules and then modifications used to protect specific portions of it are removed. The chlorine ions replacing the targeted hydroxyl portions of the molecule enable it to fit the sweet taste receptors better resulting in an increased perception of sweetness while preventing the molecule from being broken by the enzymes used to convert sucrose to energy.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


And they arent not all they're cracked up to be.... Did I just mutilate that expression? http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/4/688.full one of the hypothesis(s?) is that even though artificial sweeteners are not broken down and used for energy, the taste of them triggers hormones that signal the digestive system to start producing digestive enzymes and insulin as if it was a digestible sugar, but I can't find that study. Wait. This isn't the lounge? Whoops. I'm typing this as I watch my D. leucomelas feed, is that ok?  


Back to spiders! My completely uneducated guess is that spiders alone would become frog food, but I wonder about the possibility of pathogens or microfauna that could pose a hazard to the frogs...


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Many of the spiders are really tiny I don't think the whites would be able to find them in the tank, soon they would lay more eggs and my house would be over taken. I am not overly worried about pathogens. The seller has good reviews from people who have used it in tanks and whites are pretty hardy.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Breaking newes... 
Followups on that study cast a lot of question on it... See for example http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531711002119 now back to the regularly scheduled broadcast on moss and spider.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

The NAIB has a PDF display with a big spider in it. I wonder if it has ever caught any frogs?


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Lifeguard said:


> Some people also say that small doses of radiation is healthy but... I wouldn't risk it.


Spider man, spider man, does whatever a spider can


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

fieldnstream said:


> Spider man, spider man, does whatever a spider can


That's only if you get bitten by an irradiated spider.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Can you do a macro photo?
I like a positive ID before treatment. Neem works on a lot of insects, but don't think spiders is one. For spider I always use sticky traps in the greenhouse. Not sure that's much help in your case. 

Steve


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Currently the spiders are taking some alka seltzer to help them with their tummy aches as they cease to exist, thanks to Ed's suggestion. Tonight will be 24 hours in the bag so I will take the moss out rinse it and hopefully have bug free still alive sphagnum for my build.


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## Lifeguard (Jun 30, 2011)

Ed said:


> Do you go out into the sun? If you do, then you are getting a small dose of radiation. If you have ever been in a basement over bed rock then you've been exposed to small doses of raditation.. If you've ever been close to a fire, or used a light bulb, you've been exposed to radiation...
> In fact, you can't avoid exposure to small doses of radiation.
> 
> Some comments
> ...


Forgive me Ed. I see now It was a rather broad statement. I was refferrint to unnecessary exposure to radiation. Not really the exposure to sun or heat or any of those forms. Like the radon mines.

Some people

Back on topic glad to hear the little spiders are meeting their demize.


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## Golden State Mantellas (Mar 12, 2011)

According to the info that Ed posted, all spiders are irradiated...except maybe those velociraptor spiders that were just found in a cave in Oregon...



KC3 said:


> Hi,
> I don't know the type of spiders how big poisonous ect or how big your whites tree frog is but I used to feed mine spiders all the time and he absolutely loved them more then anything else I fed him and they were pretty big too. Might be worth a try if you don't think they'll harm your frog.


Also, this is more of a pet peeve of mine, but spiders are not poisonous, they are venomous. Apologies for nit-picking, but there IS a difference!


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

I think it can be simplified to spiders are just evillllll. 

Sure sure they eat bad bugs and keep populations in check, but they do so in an evil way to many eyes way.


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