# Mossery



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

*Mossery*

I'm working on a project in a new enclosure that I just built. This terrarium setup will feature native mosses growing on a horizontal soil substrate. Here is the tank. It is like a short cube, 17" wide by 17" deep by 13" tall.










It is designed for viewing of the moss carpet mainly in through the top. About half of the height of the tank will be occupied by the false bottom plenum, substrate layers and moss turf. I have a design for a polycarbonate top with an acrylic frame in mind. I will need to get access to the CNC router and CNC laser again for cutting those out. In the meantime I will just cover up the top with cling wrap as I get the mosses started. 

I just got this really cool book.










I have never really studied mosses before and i can't wait to get out some more to explore the diversity of our native mosses. 

I have some more pictures on the way I just need to process them and upload.


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## VisionVoid (Nov 20, 2005)

Can't wait to see it. I love mosses!


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## dapjansen (Aug 22, 2012)

yes, i'm excited to fallow your process! Im definitely subscribing!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

The plenum under the false bottom is 2" deep.










I was going to put a drain in the center bottom of the tank, but I decided I did not want to have to worry about accommodating the bulkhead and hose. So I built this siphon drain assembly instead. The top of the standpipe will extend above the moss turf and inch or two and I can easily drain it by sticking a water-filled 1/4" airline hose down inside to siphon.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I used this expanded glass aggregate--this stuff is used as a rooting medium in hydroponics--as a drainage layer about 1" thick on top of the egg crate + plastic mesh false bottom.










The expanded glass is pretty nice stuff. It is light as as a feather and it is perforated with many tiny holes, so it promotes very good aeration. I think that for good results with the mosses it is important to keep the substrate as fresh as possible.

This picture shows the whole false bottom configuration. I added a single layer of expanded clay hydroton pellets under the egg crate. This surface area provided by this material should promote beneficial bacteria that will in turn keep the drainage water and area under the false bottom from becoming stagnant and yucky. 










Here is my idea for a soil substrate to support the moss turf. This is 1:1 ABG mix with the expanded glass.


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

Looks great so far! May I ask where you got your expanded glass aggregate from? It looks almost identical to the LDL I got from NE Herp for my drainage layer in one of my tanks. Just wondering if there may be another option or a local source for getting this stuff.


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## VisionVoid (Nov 20, 2005)

I'd also like to know the brand of the aggregate. The stuff I've seen at hydroponics stores is typically Growstones which look larger than what you're using. I'd like to get my hands on smaller stuff like that.


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## xIslanderx (Dec 8, 2012)

NE Herp (a sponsor here on DB) sells that aggregate. Hope that helps. 



VisionVoid said:


> I'd also like to know the brand of the aggregate. The stuff I've seen at hydroponics stores is typically Growstones which look larger than what you're using. I'd like to get my hands on smaller stuff like that.


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

xIslanderx said:


> NE Herp (a sponsor here on DB) sells that aggregate. Hope that helps.


I mentioned that a few posts up. I was asking because I'm looking for a local source to save on shipping. I bought 7 gallons of LDL from NE Herp before and it works great, but I hate paying for shipping for something I can find locally.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

It is Growstone. The local hydroponic store has it in two different grain sizes and this is the finer stuff. The particles are between 1/8" and 3/8" in size. 

Even if they don't have it on the shelf hydroponics shops can often special order anything in those thick horticultural supply catalogs.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got this thing planted tonight. I tried to use a combination of mosses with a variety of colors, shapes and textures. I have figured out IDs for about half of them.

I'd like to add a few more distinctive mosses. There is a bit more space on the substrate for planting. 

I hope these mosses will grow. I have had good luck with some mosses planted in little pots filled with ABG mix.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I got this thing planted with a dozen different species. I'm using a single deer antler as a feature. I hope that the taller haircap mosses might grow up and cover most of the main beam of the antler to leave the tines sticking up above. 










What do you think about this substrate? I wonder if the pieces are too big and if it might be smarter to put a layer of peat moss maybe mixed with shredded sphagnum on top(?). I have found most of these mosses on pretty fine loam soil and I wonder if they will grow right on these larger chunks of substrate. What do you think?










I need to take some time to study and ID these mosses some more. This is a _Polytrichum_ or _Polyrichastrum_ haircap moss.










I think that this is _Rhodobryum ontariense_. I read that this one like limestone. I might sprinkle some aragonite sand around it or move it right next to the deer antler.










This is _Leucobryum glaucum_. It looks more silvery when you see it out in the woods.










This one is really neat. I don't know what it is. It has strongly flattened leaves and stems and it also has a silvery appearance when it is a bit drier. 










I hope these plants will grow. I am watering with rainwater mixed with a small amount of RO to buffer just a little bit. I have observed that my RO apparently has enough minerals in it still to burn mosses over the long term. These are all northern mosses and I hope they will be OK indoors. I have read that patterns of growth and sporulation for mosses are seasonally controlled for temperate mosses. I might see some of these plants grow better than others.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Always stimulating your threads! I have noticed that in rainforest vivs temperate mosses are not going well. I mostly use Hypnum cupressiforme, that I put in the background as the basis for the cuttings of vines. It is a very beautiful moss, I do not know if there is also up to you.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

rigel10 said:


> Always stimulating your threads! I have noticed that in rainforest vivs temperate mosses are not going well. I mostly use Hypnum cupressiforme, that I put in the background as the basis for the cuttings of vines. It is a very beautiful moss, I do not know if there is also up to you.


I think that the main problems that temperate mosses have in terrariums are lack of air movement, excess nutrients and water impurities such as metals. They will not have seasonal changes in this setup, but I hope that by giving them nice even conditions and clean rainwater I can get some of these mosses to grow. I really want the haircaps to grow. 

We have _Hypnum imponens_, brocade moss, here and it is pretty common. It has a satiny sheen and looks just like light green embroidery floss. I put a little piece of it in this tank.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

When I planned this one I did not know for sure if the effect of viewing in through the top would work out or not. I like it a lot and I'm going to build another one just like it. This second project will feature a different kind of planting to include some _Asplenium rhizophyllum_ and a few other things.


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## gnathaniel (Mar 26, 2013)

Great idea! I look forward to seeing how this develops. Look at genus _Anomodon_ for the last one, I've tentatively used that for similar-looking mosses growing low down on certain tree trunks at my parents' place in VA.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

gnathaniel said:


> Great idea! I look forward to seeing how this develops. Look at genus _Anomodon_ for the last one, I've tentatively used that for similar-looking mosses growing low down on certain tree trunks at my parents' place in VA.


Thanks so much. It doesn't quite look like any of the _Anomodon_ in my book. I need to study the taxonomy of morphology of mosses some more.

Have you seen any especially unique mosses in your area?


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## gnathaniel (Mar 26, 2013)

Yeah, I'm not certain the ones I've seen are _Anomodon,_ either, but I think they're in that ballpark. Mosses can be downright perplexing to ID, though.

We seem to have moss species pretty similar to what you've found in your area, _Hypnum imponens_ is particularly abundant and grows well with my orchids. My favorite local moss is an epiphyte, of I think genus _Leucodon_, found mostly on horizontal branches and crotches of acid-barked trees like oaks and pecans. When dry it looks like dull green threads ~1-15 mm long, but puffs into a lush emerald carpet once moistened. I also have a nice colony of _Climacium americanum_ I collected from my neighbor's yard. I'll try to take some pictures if I have time tomorrow.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

That would be great to see some pictures. Have you tried growing any of these mosses in terrarium conditions? If I have any plants or other stuff that might interest you would you like to do a trade for some cool mosses from your area?


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## GBR (Jun 7, 2013)

Very nice! Cant wait to see it grown out!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I was out in the woods again today and got some new mosses. I will try to post some pictures.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I found some of what I think is _Climacium dendroides_ today. I need to take a closer look at it again to be sure about the species. It's pretty cool. The largest plants are so big it's hard to believe they are mosses. I hope they will grow for me in this setup.










(Wikimedia Commons image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Climacium_dendroides_%E2%80%94_Flora_Batava_%E2%80%94_Volume_v9.jpg)


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## gnathaniel (Mar 26, 2013)

hydrophyte said:


> That would be great to see some pictures. Have you tried growing any of these mosses in terrarium conditions? If I have any plants or other stuff that might interest you would you like to do a trade for some cool mosses from your area?


I'll try to get some pics today, good light and happy kids might give me some opportunities. 

I still don't have anything that could really be called a terrarium, though I'm slowly designing something for certain ferns and orchids. I did put a bit of Climacium into an almost-sealed small glass jar with a Hemionitis arifolia fern several years ago. It sits in a bright window and I add water 1-2x/year as needed. The fern is very happy but the moss, while still alive, has etiolated like crazy and would be unrecognizable if I didn't already know what it was. Climaciums do great in my small 'greenhouse' space outdoors, though, so I suspect they'd do fine in a terrarium with adequate air volume and movement. They definitely like wet feet but I don't think they do well with constant high humidity. 

PM me your address and I'll send you a small box of local mosses when I get a chance (might be a few weeks or more since my crazy semester's about to start). If you want to send something back we can work that out later, right now I'm trying to get my plants ready for fall and winter so new acquisitions may not get the attention they need.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

gnathaniel said:


> I'll try to get some pics today, good light and happy kids might give me some opportunities.
> 
> I still don't have anything that could really be called a terrarium, though I'm slowly designing something for certain ferns and orchids. I did put a bit of Climacium into an almost-sealed small glass jar with a Hemionitis arifolia fern several years ago. It sits in a bright window and I add water 1-2x/year as needed. The fern is very happy but the moss, while still alive, has etiolated like crazy and would be unrecognizable if I didn't already know what it was. Climaciums do great in my small 'greenhouse' space outdoors, though, so I suspect they'd do fine in a terrarium with adequate air volume and movement. They definitely like wet feet but I don't think they do well with constant high humidity.
> 
> PM me your address and I'll send you a small box of local mosses when I get a chance (might be a few weeks or more since my crazy semester's about to start). If you want to send something back we can work that out later, right now I'm trying to get my plants ready for fall and winter so new acquisitions may not get the attention they need.


Hey thanks so much! I would love to try any mosses that you might be able to find. I'll send you a PM.

I'm using a 12v CPU fan in this setup. I have had really good results using fans with all kinds of plants. I will use just enough venting to keep the glass from fogging up, so it will be pretty humid inside the enclosure. 

I'm already planning a new setup in a tank the same size and shape as this one, but this new idea will combine mosses with some leaf litter, replica stones and real small plants, such as _Asplenium rhizophylum_. I might make my own stone features, or order some replica stone casts from VivariumWorks.com As with this one the soil level will be pretty flat, but the stones will reach up two or three inches.

I also wonder about setups like this for mosses and other plants from other specialized habitats, such as rocks in streams, rotting logs or bogs. The 17X17X14 dimensions seem to be very nice as a display for mosses because I can light it up very well with a socket LED bulb hung a couple of feet away and the low shape encourages viewing in through the top.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I found three or four new species today on a Sunday field trip. We went to a sandy pine forest area. I need to process and post some more pictures.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here is a quick update. i have added several new mosses.










I still haven't seen much new growth. The _Climacium_ has grown a bit. A couple of the mosses looked burned around the edges. I wonder if the peat might be too acidic for them. Most of the others look OK, but they are just sitting there. 










This one is pretty cool.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I assembled a second one of these 17X17X14 enclosures. I just need to trim off the extra silicone and reseal around the bottom seams. I am going to use this for a project that will include mosses, but it will have other features such as replica stones and leaf litter in it. Walking fern will be a cool plant to include in this one.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm seeing some more new growth from some of these mosses. The _Climacium_ has lots of new little shoots sprouting and so does the _Ptilium_. The _Leucobryum_ and the haircaps are still just sitting there.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

What medium are you using? Where is the moss originally from? Take a soil sample and break it down, by soil sample I mean 1 cubic foot, study it, what is it made of, what layering does it have?, my mosses come from pines, can it convert to tropical? Im almost sure of it! But its a transition you have to build on Im thinking, you cant chuck a penguin into the sahara and expect it to survive ...you have to ween it over time ...adapt it ...every moss is every climate given the right circumstances, temperate vs tropical ...they honestly look the same in many cases but temperate moss seems bigger where tropicals kinda look more like a carpet ...cross breeding would be difficult, but I think you can get temperate to grow tropical and tropical to grow temperate if you spend time and energy doing it, its gotta be suttle though, slow and methodical


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I really don't think it's all that complicated.

This is ABG mix blended with some Growstone. The mosses are all from various places in Wisconsin.


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## Ray (May 12, 2009)

Be careful of the use of Growstones - they are made from recycled soda-lime glass, which are inherently alkaline. Not something most mosses prefer.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Ray said:


> Be careful of the use of Growstones - they are made from recycled soda-lime glass, which are inherently alkaline. Not something most mosses prefer.


Shoot. Thanks so much for this information. There's always a catch, isn't there? This configuration with the Growstones seemed to be really perfect, but now I have to rethink it. Since it is made of glass I figured it would be totally inert and I saw "pH neutral" right on the bag and on the website. By "inherently" do you mean that the Growstone will always continue to raise alkalinity? What if I thoroughly irrigate this setup several times with rain water? Does it help at all that much of the amended ABG soil mix is peat? I ran into this explanation of rinsing it to prepare for use with hydroponics...

growstones orchid and hydroponic growing medium

It will be inferior in consistency, but I'll empty this thing out and make that drainage layer with Hydroton or perlite if necessary. I want these little plants to grow.

Do you recommend any particular treatment for perlite to prepare it for use with sensitive plants? I have read that perlite can have chlorine (?) in it.

I'm seeing good growth from about half of the mosses, including a couple that I found in a sandy pine forest area with presumably lower pH. Maybe I should just leave it all as it is and see what happens(?).


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I emptied this thing out and I am gong to rebuild the drainage and soil layers replacing the Growstone with coarse perlite. What a mess! Most of the mosses are looking good and starting to grow, but I don't want to risk having the Growstone slowly leaching more and more lime into the substrate.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

According the the paper accessed HERE they leach trace amounts of silicone in the form of H4SiO4, a very weak acid. Have you had trouble with high PH using this product, Ray?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I would also be interested to hear any other observations, Ray.

It's disappointing that Growstone has this potential serious problem. I like the appearance and consistency so much better than perlite. I kinda hate the snow white color of perlite and it is so light that it always floats to the top of the mix. 

I think I'm onto something with these mosses and I don't want the mess them up. While yanking the mosses out last night I found that most of the haircaps were sprouting little side shoots still down below the soil layer. It will be so cool if I can get the haircaps to grow and spread in there.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I replanted this thing last night after remixing the soil substrate with perlite (to replace the Growstone) and it looks pretty good. I divided up most of the clumps of moss to spread them around more and I should get faster coverage. When I yanked them up I observed that most of the mosses had new rhizoids growing into the substrate. Most of the mosses look real good.

I'm thinking about making another setup like this in a smaller enclosure. A short box 12" X 12" X 10" might be a good shape.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Sweet, its awesome that your seeing new growth! It is really going to look cool once it grows in.

John


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

FroggyKnight said:


> Sweet, its awesome that your seeing new growth! It is really going to look cool once it grows in.
> 
> John


Thanks so much! I hope they will stay healthy long term.

Here are a few new pictures.

You can see I divided some of the clumps for better coverage. I have observed with most of these that when left in large clumps the growth is slow to start, whereas if you pull them apart it seems to simulate growth. 










This shot shows the variety of mosses a little better. I'm going to put a deer antler in here again. I've been looking for a larger one. 










This low-angle shot might give you an idea of how it will look as the mosses fill in some more.










I got this little 40mm fan that's running real good so far. A circulation fan makes all the difference with the plant growth and vigor in an enclosed terrarium.


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## vraev (Feb 6, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


>


Beautiful tank. Nice and simple. I want to do something like this someday..justa moss tank. CaN you please tell me where to get that "plastic mesh"?? it looks very nice.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks. I got that mesh special order from the manufacturer. I had to buy it in a big roll. Have you tried using regular window screen?

Here is a quick placeholder for a source of ceiling mount and other lighting options for lighting artwork...

WAC Lighting Wall or Ceiling Spotlights - Brand Lighting Discount Lighting - Call Brand Lighting Sales 800-585-1285 to ask for your best price!

I need to figure out better options than these flimsy clamp lights for positioning PAR and MR16 LEDs.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I finally figured out what these things are called. This is a "PAR lamp holder". This is the sturdy and economical way to position a single LED from the wall or ceiling. It's easy to attach this to conduit fittings with that threaded 1/2" connection.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm finally back to work on the second, smaller mossery. This one is in an enclosure 11" X 11".


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## Umbra (Nov 29, 2013)

The tank looks fantastic! I've followed a lot of your riparium builds on MFK/plantedtank and it's great to see you doing the terrestrial thing as well. 

I'm not sure about air movement for mosses; I've collected a lot of local mosses here in Ontario and I've just put them in ziplock bags, misted them heavily with bottled spring water, sealed them up and left them in a window that gets indirect sunlight for most of the day. I actually forgot about them and just remembered to check on them the other day and they're doing great. Substrate is literally non existent for some of them but they're growing vertically and horizontally and filling up the bags. I feel excess nutrients are probably the biggest problem they face in most traditional terrarium setups and that may be why I've had better luck with mosses in very mature, established setups with old, likely nutrient deficient substrates. 

Looking forward to seeing your next installment, I love mosses!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I just assembled another enclosure for another new mossery setup. This one has the smaller 11" X 11" footprint, but it's taller with 18" of height. I'm going to use a single small conifer as a feature with the moss carpet. One of these Montezuma cypress seedlings that I have will work out well...










These little trees have fine, lacy foliage, so they will allow the light to penetrate to the soil level for the mosses. 

The coast redwood seedlings that I got last spring are also still all looking very good in terrarium conditions.


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## MrMycetes (Nov 9, 2014)

The Growstone is made from recycled glass taken from a landfill in New Mexico. They make a GS-1 mix for hydroponics, which is chunky, and a soil aerator mix, which is what you have, and is very fine. They even make a finer grade called Gnat-Nix, for control of fungus gnats, as it acts as a barrier between the soil and the gnat. 

Growstone, being basically foamed glass, is very base, and will leach 5ppm of silicon into the environment when it's in water. Plants will grow into it, and it will wick water 4" straight up. After 6 months the silicon will stop leaching, though the material itself will remain very base, pH wise. 

For manufacturing, they throw the crushed glass, a pH buffer, and a foaming agent into a giant furnace and it puffs up to 6" thick, then they crush it down to whatever size needed.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

MrMycetes said:


> The Growstone is made from recycled glass taken from a landfill in New Mexico. They make a GS-1 mix for hydroponics, which is chunky, and a soil aerator mix, which is what you have, and is very fine. They even make a finer grade called Gnat-Nix, for control of fungus gnats, as it acts as a barrier between the soil and the gnat.
> 
> Growstone, being basically foamed glass, is very base, and will leach 5ppm of silicon into the environment when it's in water. Plants will grow into it, and it will wick water 4" straight up. After 6 months the silicon will stop leaching, though the material itself will remain very base, pH wise.
> 
> For manufacturing, they throw the crushed glass, a pH buffer, and a foaming agent into a giant furnace and it puffs up to 6" thick, then they crush it down to whatever size needed.


I can imagine that the alkalinity doesn't matter much in a hydroponics situation where the water is periodically drained and refreshed.

I have not mixed any more of the Growstone with my ABG mix. I'm using perlite and horticultural charcoal to bulk up the mixture instead. For these mossery terrariums I want a substrate that is mostly inert for the best aeration and so that it will last longer.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm working on a series of these things and I have quick updates for a couple more.

This one includes a coyote skull. The moss is just starting to establish. I need to shine brighter light on this one so the moss will cover faster.










I am really liking how this one is turning out. It has a single Montezuma cypress seedling in a removable pot. You can see the plastic pot rim in this shot, but the moss will grow over it as time goes by. The moss in this one is establishing pretty well and has covered more than 50% of the soil substrate. You can see a little more detail for the wood case that I built. 

I'm going for understatement here, right?










This last one has some of the same plants that are in my 17 X 17 setup. It is mostly leaf litter instead of moss. Can you tell what kind of skull this is? There is just a bit of _Leucobryum_ and haircap that should spread very slowly over time.


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## Josh B.A. (Aug 13, 2012)

Is it a badger skull?


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

hydrophyte said:


> I finally figured out what these things are called. This is a "PAR lamp holder". This is the sturdy and economical way to position a single LED from the wall or ceiling. It's easy to attach this to conduit fittings with that threaded 1/2" connection.



Where did you find these?! And what kind of bulb is in it?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Josh B.A. said:


> Is it a badger skull?


Guess again. I might post another picture to show the skull a little better.



Mohlerbear said:


> Where did you find these?! And what kind of bulb is in it?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any hardware store with electrical supplies will have these. I got one at ACE for just five bucks.


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## Benji (Oct 19, 2014)

Looks kind of like a opossum skull..


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## harrisbt (Feb 19, 2013)

I don't think it has enough teeth to be a possum skull. And it looks too round...

Raccoon?


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Wolverine skull possibly? I can't tell how pronounced it's canines are.

John


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

It's a beaver skull.

I'm going out in the woods tomorrow for some photography and I might also find some new mosses to plant. I am in a different state for Christmas I hope to see some different things.


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## wworker (Nov 23, 2011)

I really like these tanks. Do you have tops on these? If so, is the fan an exhaust fan or recirculating? How do you know you need to drain water off?

You've given them class. Thanks for showing them


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much. These enclosures do have a glass top + fan assembly, but I removed them for these photos. The fans mostly just recirculate the air inside, but there is a bit of ventilation with a 1/2" hole to drop the humidity just a bit and discourage condensation. 

This kind of setup definitely needs to have good drainage with a false bottom. It will just rot and fail if you put the substrate right into the bottom.


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## Bunsincunsin (Feb 11, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


>


This one is perfect! I love the base you made for it.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Bunsincunsin said:


> This one is perfect! I love the base you made for it.


Thanks so much. I like that one too and I'm going to make another one like it with a different tree species. In about another six weeks the moss should cover the bottom and be growing over the plastic pot rim. The one with the coyote skull will also look cool as the moss grows up taller and starts to swallow the skull around the edges. 

I am making a couple more cases like that one with finger joints. When I get the tools set up I will build a few more with dovetail joints.


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## mitcholito (Dec 30, 2011)

I second what Bunsincunsin said! 

I love the minimalism and the aesthetics.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much! They really don't look like all that much, but I've been working on the ideas and details of construction for a long time. 

My nest setup will be one of the larger 17 X 17 enclosures. It will sort of resemble the one I made with _Huperzia lucidula_ (below) and other plants, but with a different kind of clubmoss as the main plant along with some other features.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Well, I think that regular ABG mix is less than optimal for growing terrestrial mosses. The mosses in my largest setup are starting to decline. It looks as though something unfavorable is wicking up into the moss from the substrate because I see them looking worse after watering. I suspect that the Orchiata might be the problem.

I am going to use a more simple mix and try to cut out more of the organic matter in favor of more inert ingredients. I am going to plant the next mossery setup setup--and I might decide to replant the 17 X 17--with a blend of these items...


shale gravel
lava gravel
charcoal
shredded tree fern
milled sphagnum moss
I think the tree fern is probably OK. I have seen mosses growing really vigorously on tree fern slabs. I hope that charcoal is also a pretty good thing to use. I am certain that sphagnum is a beneficial component for mosses. This is the shale gravel that I found for sale at our local hydroponics shop...


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## hun73r (Jul 1, 2013)

You might check local nurseries and hardware stores for expanded shale. It is basically the same thing as those bonsai rocks but without the word bonsai it seems to be exponentially cheaper. A 40lb bag usually runs about $11-12.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

hun73r said:


> You might check local nurseries and hardware stores for expanded shale. It is basically the same thing as those bonsai rocks but without the word bonsai it seems to be exponentially cheaper. A 40lb bag usually runs about $11-12.


That's a good idea. I will watch out for sacks of shale. The little bag that I bought was only $4 for 4 lbs, which isn't so bad for the amounts that I need. I would also like ot find a source for cheap lava gravel, although the offers I see on ebay aren't so bad either.

I'm bummed I think I need to empty this 17 X 17 setup and replant it. The straight ABG just doesn't work with mosses. The Orchiata is probably the main problem. I think it will will work better with a blend that is mostly inert ingredients and with sphagnum as the water-retaining component.


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## gnathaniel (Mar 26, 2013)

Does the questionable substrate still have expanded glass in it? I'd suspect that stuff over Orchiata since most mosses seem to like mildly to very acid substrate. Orchiata is treated with Ca to buffer pH and prolong life, but I think pH is still around 7 or below and drops over time as the Ca leaches out. There could be some issue with it increasing TDS and hardness of runoff water, but I doubt enough to disturb most terrestrial mosses, which mostly seem somewhat tolerant of mineral salts.

More to the point, though, I have many mosses growing fine on/with Orchiata, treefern, stalite (expanded slate/shale), lava, charcoal, and sphagnum. Can't speak as to the expanded glass since I've avoided it for fear of pH issues, but none of your other ingredients strike me as problematic...


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

gnathaniel said:


> Does the questionable substrate still have expanded glass in it? I'd suspect that stuff over Orchiata since most mosses seem to like mildly to very acid substrate. Orchiata is treated with Ca to buffer pH and prolong life, but I think pH is still around 7 or below and drops over time as the Ca leaches out. There could be some issue with it increasing TDS and hardness of runoff water, but I doubt enough to disturb most terrestrial mosses, which mostly seem somewhat tolerant of mineral salts.


Nope, I removed all of the Growstone and replanted the whole thing. I put 1" of ABG on top of 1" of coarse perlite with the eggcrate false bottom underneath. 

What do you think of charcoal? Is there any reason charcoal might bother mosses? Maybe extra P?

It's a bummer that I observe this because they were all starting to reestablish really well. Now I need to take it apart again and replant before they decline much more. I think that a mix that is mostly stone gravel with some sphagnum will work the best. The happiest terrestrial mosses that I have under lights right now are in a growout setup just sitting on loose wads of long-fibre sphagnum.


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## gnathaniel (Mar 26, 2013)

I guess charcoal could be a problem depending on what it's made from--I think it does tend to be alkaline to varying degrees and some is probably 'saltier' than others. Inert stone or expanded shale with sphagnum ought to work well as a simplified medium. If you want something cheap that's less biodegradable than sphagnum, polyester craft felt wicks and holds water well, I've got a few mosses growing on some.

How do you water the tank? Michael Fletcher recommends regular rinsing sprays for Sphagnums in particular (and maybe other mosses) in his excellent Moss Grower's Handbook, and my terrestrials seem to like it, too.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Gosh thanks for that link. I have seen references to that book before, but I didn't know it was free on the internet.

This setup doesn't get watered much. It has a closed top with a 40mm fan to blow the air around. Maybe I should try rinsing it with several gallons of water to flush through the substrate.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

My other plants grow fine with it, but my ABG mix is no good for mosses. There is something that wicks back up from the substrate that causes them to decline. I think the Orchiata is the most likely culprit.

I ordered some bonsai lava gravel. I'm going to make a simplified mix probably with the following proportions:


4 - 1/4" black lava gravel
3 - fine horticultural charcoal
2 - milled sphagnum
1 - tree fern fiber
So this cuts out the Orchiata, sphagnum peat and Turface. I might also decide to exclude the charcoal, although I want to include it because it is lighter than the lava gravel and will thus reduce weight of the mix. I can use a blend of just milled sphagnum and tree fern in a thin layer on top to hold a little more moisture and make it easier for the mosses to establish and spread. 

I need to replace the substrate and replant two of the mossery setups because the mosses are just flaking out.


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

Please delete this post.


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## snake54320 (Dec 16, 2011)

Perhaps the substrate isn't right, but I also think temperatures are very important. You collected the moss in september, just before winter, so they were preparing for cold weather. 
From my experience, even if some native moss acclimate into terrarium conditions, they are most likely to thrive if you respect their biological cycle (seasons, temps, etc). 

Regards,


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## Bunsincunsin (Feb 11, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


>


I kept thinking about this tank as I was hiking at the coast last weekend; there are many coniferous stumps that feature a single seedling or new growth - such as the one found in your tank - that grow from the center of the decaying stump. Something like this would look nice in a column tank with a medium-sized stump (~12" diameter or larger).

Do you have any updates on this one?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

snake54320 said:


> Perhaps the substrate isn't right, but I also think temperatures are very important. You collected the moss in september, just before winter, so they were preparing for cold weather.
> From my experience, even if some native moss acclimate into terrarium conditions, they are most likely to thrive if you respect their biological cycle (seasons, temps, etc).
> 
> Regards,


I just don't think that's true for most kinds of mosses and it is not what I am observing. I think that mosses have this reputation of failing in terrariums because they are usually planted into an etsy death trap like this...












Bunsincunsin said:


> I kept thinking about this tank as I was hiking at the coast last weekend; there are many coniferous stumps that feature a single seedling or new growth - such as the one found in your tank - that grow from the center of the decaying stump. Something like this would look nice in a column tank with a medium-sized stump (~12" diameter or larger).
> 
> Do you have any updates on this one?


I'll try to get some update pictures today. There are two setups looking really good right now. 

I have been thinking about another setup to feature a large rotting log, but I think I might use a long tank like a 90 or 110 or 120 so that there will be more horizontal footprint space for terrestrial plants. 

I do have this other vertically-oriented setup in a 65G vert tank that I just started and I might decide to use a rotting snag as the main feature. I am using a sapling coast redwood as the largest plant. Coast redwood seems to be happy enough in terrarium conditions. Here it is with a few things just thrown in there to get an idea of how they look...


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have a few update photos for the larger mossery setup. I figured out what the problem was with the mosses. There was indeed something unfavorable accumulating in the substrate and all I had to do was water with a few gallons of clean rainwater to flush it clean again. The mosses reversed their decline and started to grow again in just a few days. They need to fill in a bit more, but they look much better now.

The antler is a Texas whitetail antler that I found on ebay. Compared with deer antlers in our area it has a distinctive shape.


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## mitcholito (Dec 30, 2011)

Its clean, its minimalistic and I also like the floor that goes with it.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

after having read this thread with the additions about the expanded glass...I'm concerned as I'm using it in a couple of my tanks under the substrate. Just how severely do you think it is effecting the pH of my tanks and the plants? Gees, I hate to think of having to tear them apart... and I was just getting ready to order more!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

and I had to Google orchiata---so are you recommending against using orchid bark in any substrate mix"


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

mitcholito said:


> Its clean, its minimalistic and I also like the floor that goes with it.


Thanks very much.



Judy S said:


> after having read this thread with the additions about the expanded glass...I'm concerned as I'm using it in a couple of my tanks under the substrate. Just how severely do you think it is effecting the pH of my tanks and the plants? Gees, I hate to think of having to tear them apart... and I was just getting ready to order more!


I think that you don't have to worry about it. I was just trying to make conditions optimal for the terrestrial mosses, which are very fussy about extra lime in the soil. If you have it as a drainage layer it probably won't hurt anything.



Judy S said:


> and I had to Google orchiata---so are you recommending against using orchid bark in any substrate mix"


Orchiata is very good for ABG mix and similar substrates. It lasts a lot longer than regular fir bark. Again I am just trying to get the best mix for mosses and it looks to me as though Orchiata leaches something back into the substrate that is unfavorable for mosses. Furthermore, if you read above you will see that all I had to do was rinse the substrate by irrigating with extra water. I watered through with a few gallons of clean rainwater and this corrected the problem. The mosses responded right away.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

hydrophyte said:


> It's a beaver skull.
> 
> I'm going out in the woods tomorrow for some photography and I might also find some new mosses to plant. I am in a different state for Christmas I hope to see some different things.


In Northern Wisconsin moss grows nuts! Everytime I visit my father in law I always bring tupperware with me to collect wild specimens, Ive had awesome success with it but it needs to be processed, also ...Ive read complaints about people collecting because it takes so long to grow, its on private land though and truth be told I have moss in my backyard too but I treat my lawn with weednfeed and other stuff so its off limits, this is pure and natural stuff up there. The last time we were up I took shovel to dirt and collected lots of it and processed it here, this next time I am going to clip thousands of spore pods and dry/spread them out on my own variation of abg mix


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I think I have found a real good component for a terrarium moss soil substrate mix...

Amazon.com : Soil Mender Expanded Shale 40 lb. : Soil And Soil Amendments : Patio, Lawn & Garden


As I mentioned earlier, my goal is to figure out a mix that will be mostly inert stone and with less organic matter. I want these moss plantings to last for a long time. This expanded shale is supposedly pH neutral. I bought a 40lb sack of this same brand and it was just eight bucks. It is definitely heavier than charcoal or fir bark, but light compared with most other kinds of rock. 

I will try mixing this stuff with charcoal, milled sphagnum, Turface and milled tree fern.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's a quick update for the 11X11 setup with the coyote skull. The mosses have really thrived in this one. The _Dendrolycopodium_ is doing well too. 

If somebody tells you you can't grow terrestrial clubmosses in a terrarium, it's a bunch of crap.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's a quick update for the setup with the coyote skull. The mosses flaked out and declined for a little while, but I figured out the issue and now they are growing back. The _Dendrolycopodium_ continues growing slow and steady.


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## xIslanderx (Dec 8, 2012)

These pics/vivs are amazing. I can really picture one of these as a showcase piece at the entryway of Guillermo del Toro's house (for those of you familiar with is work) 
Thanks for sharing.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much! I wilol have more things like this on the way.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm starting another one these in a 40 breeder fish tank. It might turn out pretty cool. I will try to get pictures sometime soon.


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

So what was the problem you had with the moss and how did you correct it? This is great by the way.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here are quick pictures for another new setup. This one in a 10" vase uses mosses with a pair of Mexican cypress (_Cupressus lusitanica_) seedlings. I love the light, airy foliage of these little trees. I remember seeing this plant growing in Costa Rica as a street tree in towns up in the cool mountains. I suspect it will respond well to pruning when I have to trim to control size. This planting will look real good in a little while when the mosses have grown to cover and the trees have filled out a bit more.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have a couple of quick shots for another setup. I really did not compose this one very well and I am going to take it apart and start over, but I got a few interesting results with the plant growth.

I think that the combination of the moss turf and small conifer tree with a bamboo could work very well with a better layout. This tree is a coast redwood and the bamboo is some kind of _Pleioblastus_. Redwoods have been growing very well for me in terrarium conditions, but they have kind of a chaotic branching pattern. I think that the best way to use them like this would be to plant two or three together in a clump so that after you trim them on top they will resprout with numerous new shoots that can in turn be pruned for a nice shape. 

The _Pleioblastus_ bamboo also grows a lot and spreads with rhizomes, but I can control it pretty well with pruning. 

I think the bamboo and the redwood could look really great in a larger enclosure with a broad moss lawn.

The goldthread (_Coptis trifolia_) is so far my favorite native plant to grow with the mosses like this. I think it combines really nice with the other textures. IT doesn't seem to mind growing in a terrarium with no seasonality at all. I have seen it spread quite a bit and I have dug up several new little plantlets.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's an update for the cylinder vase mossery. The trees have grown about 1" taller and the moss has almost covered now.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have really enjoyed that planting with the coyote skull, so I decided to do something similar with a deer skull. This mossery in a rectangular enclosure features a roe deer (_Capreolus capreolus_) skull with native mosses and _Dendrolycopodium_. The skull is really cool. This display will look pretty good in maybe six weeks after the mosses have had more time to grow in.


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## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

These are all incredible!!!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks so much! I'll have some more of these on the way. This weekend I hope to plant a larger setup in a breeder fish tank to make a broad, expansive green moss turf.


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## Drewbacca (Apr 5, 2014)

Very cool! Your work has been very inspiring for me. Great job!

-Drew


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Drewbacca said:


> Very cool! Your work has been very inspiring for me. Great job!
> 
> -Drew


Thank you so much! 

I will try to have more pictures on the way soon.


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## raimeiken (Dec 24, 2006)

very beautiful and inspiring work! I love the clean and minimal look to these.


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

I must have missed it. What kind of LED light are you using? Those look great and I've always wanted success with mosses. I currently want to suspend a light over a couple of my planted apothecary jars, but do not want the LEDs that have blue and red to promote growth. 

Thanks for your help.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

RabidSimian said:


> I must have missed it. What kind of LED light are you using? Those look great and I've always wanted success with mosses. I currently want to suspend a light over a couple of my planted apothecary jars, but do not want the LEDs that have blue and red to promote growth.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


This is the kind of lamp that I use...

Feit PAR30L/5K/LEDG5 LED Dimmable PAR30 5K Reflector GEN5 - Led Household Light Bulbs - Amazon.com

These things work great! And they are only about twenty bucks. Make sure to select the lamp with the 5,000K color temperature. This is important.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Hello Everyone,

It is unusual for me, but I have found that I need to make a special request for some personal help. I hope this is not too far out of line for this setting. I posted this with an explanation over in the Lounge forum. Please read it if you have a minute. Here is the link...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lounge/261586-help.html#post2532338


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have some new photos for the vase setup. With the central heat running the house is getting drier, so I installed the acrylic partial to to hold some more humidity inside.


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

Fantastic photos. Are these little micro mosseries actually setup like this in your house or are you just staging them for photos? 





hydrophyte said:


> I have some new photos for the vase setup. With the central heat running the house is getting drier, so I installed the acrylic partial to to hold some more humidity inside.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

erikm said:


> Fantastic photos. Are these little micro mosseries actually setup like this in your house or are you just staging them for photos?


Thanks so much! I currently have this setup with the mosses in the vase in our living room. The bird is a temporary decoration because it has real feathers on it.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I used one of those shots of the vase mossery to make a new rack card (1/3 page) flyer and while I had it handy I also formatted it as this quick Web version.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here are photo updates to show moss growth in a few of my mossery terrariums. I find it to be so interesting to watch the slow development of these little plants over time.

Here is a detail shot for the vase terrarium. This setup has had very good growth of the mix of mosses that I collected from our yard. I do not have very good ID's for these mosses yet. They include _Mnium_ along with several others. There are also a couple of nice woodland mosses. In this picture you can also see very healthy new growth of _Climacium_. There is also some _Thuidium_ in the same terrarium that has spread quite a bit.










The mosses have grown really well in the terrarium with the roe deer skull. They are beginning to engulf the base of the skull. This makes a pretty cool effect as the mosses continue to grow. I will try to get some better pictures of this planting. It is a little tricky because with enough exposure to show the mosses, the white skull just looks blown out. 










I planted it only a couple of weeks ago, but I already see some response from the mosses in the larger 18" X 36" enclosure that uses a single elk antler. I hope that broad, dense moss turf will grow in this tank. There are new bright green on these mosses, but it is too early to know how well they will establish. Much of this initial sprouting of transplanted mosses seems to be simple reallocation of energy from the existing tissues of the plants, rather than actual new growth. I should have a better idea of how well they are spreading in another couple of weeks. This terrarium has several very nice woodland mosses including _Polytricastrum, Atrichum_, and _Rhodobryum._


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for looking at these pictures and thanks for the new likes. I will have some more updates on the way and two new projects as well. I'm really excited about the results these mosses are giving me.


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## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

i recently found tis site which has a huge variety of mosses documented http://www.swissbryophytes.ch/content/lebensraeume

its for Switzerland, but im sure many mosses exist in other countries, so maybe this can help with moss ID's. unfortunately the page is not available in English but if you need anything translated let me know.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

kromar said:


> i recently found tis site which has a huge variety of mosses documented http://www.swissbryophytes.ch/content/lebensraeume
> 
> its for Switzerland, but im sure many mosses exist in other countries, so maybe this can help with moss ID's. unfortunately the page is not available in English but if you need anything translated let me know.


Thank you so much! I will look through it. Yes, I'm sure many of the species that occur in Switzerland also grow here. We have some useful guides to moss ID here. I just need to spend some more with them.

The setup with the moose antler seems to be doing very well. Some of the mosses have already spread about 30%. I need to get some update photos. Here's one of the shots I got right after planting. It's a lot greener now.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's a quick update for the planting in the 50-gallon enclosure.




























I am testing out another evergreen groundcover plant, twinflower (_Linnaea borealis_). This is a true northern boreal plant. I hope it will grow and maybe bloom.










Twinflower is a noteworthy plant. It occurs around the world in the cold regions of the Northern Hemisphere. It was a favorite of Carl Linnaeus and named after him.









(Wikimedia Commons image: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Illustration_Linnaea_borealis1.jpg)


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## r.mickaels (May 17, 2015)

Awesome set up! Great job. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

r.mickaels said:


> Awesome set up! Great job.


Thanks very much! I have some more updates on the way pretty soon.


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## 9darlingcalvi (Oct 11, 2014)

hydrophyte said:


> Here's a quick update for the setup with the coyote skull. The mosses flaked out and declined for a little while, but I figured out the issue and now they are growing back. The _Dendrolycopodium_ continues growing slow and steady.


What are all the plants in this build? I would love to try and replicate it to my best ablity.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here is a new update for the setup with the roe deer skull. The mosses have grown as a really dense turf in this one.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here is a new update for the setup with the roe deer skull. The mosses have grown as a really dense turf in this one.


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## frogwatcher (May 9, 2013)

Love the way it's turning out.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

frogwatcher said:


> Love the way it's turning out.


Thanks so much!


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## Simon85 (Dec 11, 2016)

Hello Hydrophyte!

I wonder how close to the moss you could put the lamp without burning it?
Would it be possible to position it about 1 1/2 feet above?
I can buy a par 38 lamp somewhat cheap but have limited space.

How do you clean the mosses before planting to prevent intruders?

Also, do you have any problems with mold in the tanks?
It looks on some pictures that the skulls might get moldy or is that algae?

I have just finished building my all plastic "mossery" with hygrolon for "top soil" and some kind of filterpad for substrate.
This will use kyoto-moss spores plus a small amount of "Dusk" moss sporemix.
I have grown tropical mosses on hygrolon several times with success but would
like to try some local Norwegian mosses next year.

Did anyone out there try temperate mosses with plastics?


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## gorr (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow what a cool concept! Its so cool to see somthing new


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