# About to go on vacation..in feeding trouble.



## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

Hey all, ive been having a bunch of trouble with food since my cultures crashed. To top it all off, im going on vacation on friday, until july 4th. i just got 1 ff culture, which hasnt started producing yet, and i also just recieved a springtial culture. I really dont think those will be enough to feed 3 7 month old tincs for 3 weeks. Honestly, i dont know what to do. I need help.... lots
If you have any suggestions, theyd be GREATLY appreciated.


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Cancel you vacation.
Honestly, if you have not made proper arrangements before hand, your animals will suffer. It is a lot easier to reschedule that vacation.


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## Detrick105 (Apr 16, 2006)

How long has your tank or tanks been up and running? If it has been set up for a long time than there should be a lot of micro fauna already in the tank. But regardless I would buy some dwarf tropical isopods (white) and some more springtails and seed your tank or tanks with them at night time (so your frogs don't eat them all right away). Just a thought.


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## zombiefish (Sep 22, 2006)

Why don't you just buy more fruitflies??? Check the sponsor section.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Why dont you see if one of the Ohio dendroboarders can watch them for you. There are a bunch in your area.
Jason


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

No there isn't. He's not in the city of Columbus, but about an hour North of us. 

You need someone to care for your frogs because of the state they're in.


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

i really cant cancel the vacation, we have flight reservations and have already paid for a beachhouse..

detrick, the tank has only been up for a few months, and i havent seen much microfauna in there.

zombiefish, actually i think thats what im gonna do. i actually hadnt realized that you could buy cultures already producing... 

does anybody think a vet could watch them? we have an exotic animals vet 5 miles away that boards...i could call them.

well thanks all, im getting to solutions now..


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

- Find someone to take care of your frogs. Even if they weren't already compromised due to the previous issues - you can't leave them without food for 3 weeks. If there is no one in your immediate area - and you are an hour north of other froggers, just take a small road trip to get them down to someone.

- Buy some new cultures (as previously recommended). Check out the board sponsors.

- Make arrangements with the business you purchased flies from to send out another couple cultures the week before you get back to the person taking care of the flies - this way you will have food when you get back, and you will have fresh flies to start up new cultures.

If you can't do all of the above - then you should rethink your vacation decision.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

leucofrog said:


> does anybody think a vet could watch them? we have an exotic animals vet 5 miles away that boards...i could call them.


If they have the facilities - most likely yes. Just be aware that you will probably be charged daily boarding fees (charge is variable - you would need to call the vet to find out). 

If you do have them boarded - then you could also have the vet check a couple of fecals while they are there to make sure that parasites were not contributing to their weight loss (if you haven't already done so).


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

yeah, but dont you have to provide food for the animals your hving boarded? o.o that would put me back to square one.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Yes - you would. But, honestly - you have two "square one" situations.

You need to find someone to take care of the frogs, and you need to have the food for that person to feed them. 

The food is an easy fix - as all you need to do is order some cultures.

Then you need to find someone to feed them - which the vet's office may be able to provide if you can't find a friend or another local frogger.


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## nitsuj (Jan 21, 2007)

Just spend $30 and buy like 4-5 cultures. I dont know why you only have 1 culture for 3 frogs to begin with, 1 culture lasts 1 of my pairs a week... Spring tails are not a great source of food so dont depend on them, just buy a few FF cultures, pop one of the holes in the top put it in the viv and it will last the frogs 5-7 days, so you would need like 3 cultures to acomplish that. If you have some close immediate family that you could get to do that... Also your frogs are very skinny from what I remember, go collect some termites and feed them to your frogs or give them some FF larva, but it this point you really cant afford to do that with only 1 culture....


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

is there anyway i could do a field sweeping and just keep everything i caught, say in an ff cup? (not with ffs, btw)


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## nitsuj (Jan 21, 2007)

I guess, but why are you so against getting FF cultures? That would make everything easy...


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

no, im gona order them, im just sorta lookin for a backup...im still new to culturing.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

My advice is that for the sake of the frogs, transfer ownership of the trio to someone who can give them adequate care. That may sound harsh but it is not clear to me that you are in a position to give them appropriate care independent of the vacation issue.

As noted, the frogs are already seriously malnourished for reasons that are unclear. Plus you stand today with a signficant shortfall in food items for them.

Like I said, this sound harsh and judgemental yet I am saying it for both your and the frogs benefit. Sometimes the brave thing to do is to be honest with yourself and admit you are in over your head. 

One of the biggest pitfalls in this hobby is the inability to understand/ master food rearing for one's frog collection. I think we have all had our near misses (or in some cases disasters) - I know I have. You can fill in during an emergency by online orders, help from friends, etc. but ultimately you have to get the drill down so that you are food independent.

Take the time to get the FF culture aspect under control. Spend time learning from experienced froggers - you have a great set of resources in your local area. Then reengage from a frog ownership perspective.

Best of luck with your decision. 

Bill


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Feeding baby frogs is a little more critical than feeding adults, a nice fat adult can go a week no problem with one big last feeding before you leave, babies it is best to feed very day. Get a culture from one of the suppliers on the board, open the jar, leave it on it's side in the tank. Your bigger probelm may be misting or spraying of the frogs, if you can get a neighbor to come in and spray your tank 3 to 4 times while you are gone they will be fine as long as it is a closed environ that holds humidity well. Trust me do the above and all will be fine, if you don't have someone to spray maybe you can take the tank to someone with instructions to do so. Even babies can go a few days without feeding but optimally you can leave food in with them.
Mark


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Mark - you are very right. But, you may not have seen the pics of the frogs in question:

Posted June 1:


leucofrog said:


> hey, i have my 2 french guiana tincs that have started to bully the other one, so i was wondering if anyone could check out this pic to see if theyre a pair or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In all honesty, I don't think these frogs would survive an additional three week period of malnourishment. These frogs need to be fed daily to get their body mass up to optimal conditions. They need (as previously mentioned) fatty food sources as well - FF larva, termites, lesser waxworms, etc.

Perhaps Bill's recommendation is the way to go - or find someone who can foster the frogs for you until you get back from your vacation, and spend a month or so practicing culturing flies, and then get them back. I am not trying to be mean, just keeping the welfare of the frogs as the most important issue. This hobby is a learning process, and we have all lost frogs - but we have to learn from the mistakes to make it successful.

Can't you ask the person who would be taking care of the rest of your collection listed in your sig?


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## porkchop48 (May 16, 2006)

Leucofrog,
I am pretty sure I am abotu 2 - 2 1/2 hours away from you but if you can get here. I have a bunch of booming cultures that you are more than welcome to. But you really need to listen the rest of them and learn how to culture FF,
When you sent me the pictures for my project at work they looked great and that was a couple of months ago. 
Let me know if you can head out this way. I'll help you out if you can.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Whoa did not see those pics, that is sad, good news is they are eating. You need to get those frogs to someone that can feed them small amounts 5-6 times every day for a 3 to 4 weeks. They could end up fine but they are the point that their organs are probably deteriorating. I agree whole heartedly with Bill if you want to keep these frogs you need to be responsible enough to culture enough food to feed them. It is a challenge and usually what gets most people out of this hobby but culturing enough food for 2 - 3 frogs is as easy as it gets, if you can't do that buy a snake, but for heavens sake do something in the next 2 to 3 days.


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## fleshatomb (Jan 24, 2007)

I wont be really harsh and here and say you should cancel your vacation.

But the first thing you should have done before you got those frogs was to have your cultures going for atleast a month. I know when i first started that was a loooong month. but it was worth it to know I had a steady supply of flys. and if one culture crashed, i had another in line, and more still producing. 

I was out of the dart 'hobby' for a few years and i just got back into it with three new french guinas too. I have had them for less then two weeks. They are in seperate quaranteen tanks after i thought one was being bullyed (i now think its jsut the frogs personality) but i feed them every day to every other day. The one french guina tinc is FAT. like im gonna start feeding her every other day and not every day fat. a lot fatter then when i got her. 

now i saw your first post asking if they were a pair. i think wondering if they were a pair was the least of your worrys, honestly. Way back when i had tincs before, i had a couple tincs that stopped eating. no matter what i would do for them, i couldnt get them to eat. they looked that skinny and were only that skinny for a few days before i found them dead. im really suprised yours are still alive. 

but what you should have done was, as i mentioned had a steady supply of fruit flys, and when you hit a bump with your supply, reached in your pocket and ordered more. yeah shipping is a pain in the arse but you have no choice. you said you have ordered more cultures, or was working on it. if you havent CALL EDS, or call JOSHES FROGS, ANYONE THAT SELLS FLYS! go to petsmart and see if they have any in the little vials. When you order the frogs get some already mixed media. its easy to make cultures, measure half a cup media, half a cup water/vinegar swirl it in the deli cup press some coffe filters/excelsier in it, put flys in it, put the top on wait 1-2 weeks, there ya go. you just have to make one culture every week to have a steady supply. 




Now that im done sorta telling my opinion/kinda ranting (and please forgive my typos its late, lol). Order some producing fruit fly cultures. Josh's frogs has good prices, and fast shipping. get a couple cultures. fatten those frogs up. i forgot what day you sid you was leaving. 

call a friend/family member. ask if they will feed your frogs. put the culture in the tank (though i think theres concerns about c02 build up?) put a few holes for flys to slowly escape. have a frog store ship a culture to your friend/family and have them switch out the old culture with the new culture in the tank. thats teh easy method. or ask them to dump some flys in there every day, the hard way for your friend. 

if you cant do that, call that vet, and see if they will board them.

or take an hour drive and let a fellow dendroboarder nurse them back to health while your gone and give em a few bucks for their kindness. (or even better some deli cups, lol)

let us know whats going on. 

I hope your vacation goes well, and you find a situation that works for your frogs. but i think at this point i would consider a dendroboarder tkaing them in for a few weeks.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*an update*

For those of you that have participated in this conversation so far. Anthony has contacted me and we have worked out an arrangement and we will be taking care of his frogs while he is on vacation with his family. 

Anthony called me yesterday, and during the conversation we discovered that I will be working in the same building as him mom over the next 6 months. The funniest part, is I am starting this contracting position today. So, his mother and I will be passing packed lunches :wink: over the next few days to take care of transferring the frogs. 

For the people who have made some comments about Anthony canceling his vacation, remember he is just a kid. Canceling a family vacation is not something with in his power. 

On another note, all the advice and everything is really great, but what happened to the community that is so willing to help other froggers out. Donate money to worthy causes? Isn't part of this community about helping pass on this hobby to the next generation? I am guilty of this too, but no one on this board offered to send Anthony any cultures to help him out in his 'crisis' - but we didn't waste any time offering him advice. 

I will say, I think some of the advice got his attention, and he finally contacted us for help. All along, Anthony was asking for help in his own way, but I don't know if he knew how to put it into words... - but all the should of(s), could of(s) and should do(s) & could do(s) in the world didn't show the compassion this board is capable of? 

Is any lesson worth learning worth the loss of frogs? Especially to a 13 year old? 

I just wanted to give an update to the board. 

Melissa


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## brettlt (Oct 5, 2006)

Thank you for stepping up and helping Melissa.

The age thing helps explain some of his limitations. (No car, no money, etc.) I had not even thought of those things. I forget people younger than at least 16 have pets like pdfs. I only had a dog.

I am glad the situation has come to a good conclusion. I hope the frogs recover well.


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Melissa,
I for one will apologize from the bottom of my heart for my comment on canceling his vacation. I had no idea he was so young. I was not thinking of a person who was going on a vacation with his parents. Very insensitive of me.

Leucofrog, I am very sorry for being the first to say that. Melissa is right, we need to be a more helpful community, not just advise givers. And I had no idea you were so young. 13, Wow, that is awesome that you are taking such an interest in these animals.

I think most of us are very willing to help those that are close to us (mileage wise). I know I have helped many local people with FF cultures and advise. But when it comes to the long distance froggers, it seems that since advise is all you can give, and distance means you will never see the person (usually), we tend to be rather flippant with our responses. I for one, will endeavor to stop doing that. 

Like the old saying, "If you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all."


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

alright, look. you dont have to apologize for those comments.. its not like they were mean or hate or anything. it was jsut saying that i should cancel a vacation. you had no idea how old i was, so you shouldnt apologize. i dont want anybody to apologize to anyone, we're all friends on the board and thats that.  talk to you soon


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Well, I guess he told me!!!
Took the wind right out of my sail. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

That's OK Leucofrog, I understand. But you still deserved better and for me not being more sensitive to your plight, I am sorry. Sorry, but I am.


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

lol alright. now im sorry that your sorry  when will it end! :shock:


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Just let us know when you come back how your frogs are, OK?


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

yep,. i plan on it!


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## Derrick (Oct 28, 2005)

I also recommend getting a recipe for fruit fly culture medium. That way you dont have to get it shipped all the time. I make mine from instant mashed potato flakes, brewers yeast, Methyl Paraben(food grade mold inhibitor), spirulina powder(optional) and activated bakers yeast. I am cheap so this saves some money. Some people put powdered sugar in it....I dont. There are lots of places to find recipes and tips on the web for culturing FF's. If you have any other Q's then shoot me a PM.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Derrick said:


> I also recommend getting a recipe for fruit fly culture medium. That way you dont have to get it shipped all the time. I make mine from instant mashed potato flakes, brewers yeast, Methyl Paraben(food grade mold inhibitor), spirulina powder(optional) and activated bakers yeast. I am cheap so this saves some money. Some people put powdered sugar in it....I dont. There are lots of places to find recipes and tips on the web for culturing FF's. If you have any other Q's then shoot me a PM.


For beginner froggers - I think it is better for them to purchase their medium from a tried and true supplier. While the basic Carolina mix (as you describe above) is good - it does take some playing with the mix to optimize production for your needs. When starting off - there are enough other variables to worry about in fly culturing - so at least start off knowing your medium is good.

There are a number of medium suppliers (check out the board sponsor page and the vendor feedback section) that offer a quality product.


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

yep, thats all being taken care of now.... might i add with a lot more ease because im currently frogless


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Switching FF strains may also help. I cultured hydei for a few weeks...they crashed. Later I got some wingless melanos from a guy who raises them for tropical fish. They did ok, got lots and lots of flies, but I later lost them, I think due to media problems. It is a good thing I didn't have frogs then. I now have Turkish gliders and they are incredibly prolific flies. I went through a phase with another media problem(failed to remember the flies needed brewers yeast)and I'm pretty sure I would have lost the wingless but the Turkish gliders lasted long enough that I managed to get the materials together to make proper cultures out of the surviving flies and in a week or so I once again had 100's of them. Sure, they can be a pain as they can jump higher than wingless flies(when I first opened the culture cup, all the buzzing and jumping made me think the culture had fliers in it too!) but I love them. I am surprised so few culture these.


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## Derrick (Oct 28, 2005)

> For beginner froggers - I think it is better for them to purchase their medium from a tried and true supplier. While the basic Carolina mix (as you describe above) is good - it does take some playing with the mix to optimize production for your needs. When starting off - there are enough other variables to worry about in fly culturing - so at least start off knowing your medium is good.
> 
> There are a number of medium suppliers (check out the board sponsor page and the vendor feedback section) that offer a quality product.


He's gotta learn sometime. Why not now. I did catch the right age of 16 didnt I?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Derrick said:


> He's gotta learn sometime. Why not now. I did catch the right age of 16 didnt I?


The first step should be setting up cultures to get the timing and schedule right to have a constant supply of food. After that has been achieved - start playing with your own media recipe. 

If your first cultures fail - you have to figure out where you went wrong. Was it the temp? Age of the flies used to seed? Number of flies? Water to medium ratio? These are some of the questions you would ask if you are using pre-prepared medium. But if you start out with your own media mix - then it adds another set of variables to look into.

Also - what difference does physical age make? A "beginner" frogger doesn't have to fit into an age category, its just about experience level. This hobby attracts new members from all age groups.

Making your own media saves money - but only if you really are making a lot of cultures. For smaller collections, I think buying your medium is a very feasible alternative. It is a lot more expensive to buy and ship live fly cultures (especially during the peak of summer and low of winter) than it is to buy a bag of medium.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Flax seed mix is my First choice.

Requires some cooking but is much more 'stable' and much less prone to craches than potato based mixes IMO.

Want the recipe?

of course you do...

but, I need to check the paperwork at home first  for the exact proportions.

you can start though by obtaining some key ingredients like:

Brewers yeast, whole flax seeds (health foods stores usually), instant oats, confectioners sugar, Apple sauce, apple vinegar, mold inhibitor (optional)...that is at least the 'biggies'

S


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I have another opinion on prepared mixes... 

newer recipes from BJ and AZDR are producing better for me than past trials of other mixes...

[yes I use the flax seed also, generally 50% of the 25cx/wk I make, just in case something fails]

S


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

hey, i know what made the cultures crash.... we had a streak of very warm days, so i left my window open, but one of those nights the temp dropped drastically (i tihnk from 70 to about 45  ) so that was basically the end of my ffs..... but i think things are gonna go okay with the ffs... we left today,and are currently in virginia beach,(im on my dads laptop) and i had started a new culture yesterday,and also have my neighbor starting one next friday.... so when i get back everything should be doing ok, and if not, ill just delay my readoption of my frogs.

thanks for the help..


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## Derrick (Oct 28, 2005)

Im glad you found something to work for you and your frogs. I hope everything goes well.


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