# Plants I would never use in a Viv.. again



## Gnarly

So, I've been keeping frogs in planted tanks for a little while now, and it's all been a tremendous learning process. Some of it has has been frustrating, some had been confusing, most of it has been rewarding but either way I've always come out realizing I've made one mistake or another. I've been doing a lot of tank maintenance recently and there a few plants I've decided I hate in my vivariums. I'm sure they'd make lovely house plants, but they are a mess in my tiny jungles. 

For example, peperomia caperata looks very nice when it's growing in; small round, textured leaves that provide good cover and are very hardly would seem like an innocuous choice. BUT it quickly grows into an unmanageable tall Black Forest (which my phone insists on capitalizing) of a plant that is guaranteed to smother any other plant in the vicinity. I've tried pulling it out of two tanks to no avail, it keeps spouting new bunches in its wake. 

Or, prayer plant. This plant was so appealing to me the first time I saw it, the pattern on the leaves was so striking, and the flowers were pleasant. It doesn't seem to grow as quickly as the peperomia caperata, but it is just as sturdy and the leaves are so large that I underestimated the amount of tank space a plant growing steadily would take up. 

These are obviously beginner mistakes, and the types of things that you learn as you progress in the hobby. What are some plants you would avoid in the future, given your current knowledge of how the grow in a vivarium?


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## MrBiggs

I'm beginning to think that wandering Jew would be a plant that would fall into that category. It just grows way too fast to be manageable.


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## Ed

Creeping fig (Ficus pumilia)

Artillary plant (Pilea microphylla) 

Ed


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## dendrothusiast

Cissus Discolor
Chrysothemis pulchella
Most Ficus vines except oak leaf.
Begonia Glabra is starting to become one for me


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## epiphytes etc.

I would add

Begonia masoniana
Any rex begonia
Almost any cane stem begon
Begonia thelmae or 'manaus'
Any creeping selaginella
Billbergia iridifolia
Philodendron gloriosum
Any alocasia


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## RobR

Creeping Charlie ( Pilea Nummularifolia)
Can be a bit much when it takes off depending on Viv size


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## ICS523

Oak leaf isn't the only ficus vine that's good.

ficus pumilia var minima is great, I have had it in my viv for about a year now and it has only covered a single log. people also say that ficus 'panama' is really slow to. also some people (not me) like the look of an overgrown viv.

Maidenhair ferns never grow in vivs and turn out to be a waste of time and money(if anyone knows how to grow these please let me know).

Spider plants always look terrible in vivs, they don't like it that wet. They grow for a wile but they get a really ugly grassy look, then they rot.


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## ICS523

this is a great thread by the way (solves the "is it safe for frogs" malarkey)


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## rigel10

My ficus pumila var. colombia (minima) grows everywhere, but I think pothos grows too fast to be manageable. Among the orchids schoenorchis fragrans...


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## roxrgneiss

Most of the terrarium plants available (because they are easiest to propagate) like to spread or branch, but can take months or years to become well established, fast growing, and a problem in the tank. At any rate, given their desired conditions, many plants will outgrow tank space / attempt to out-compete other inhabitants. On the other hand, sometimes the desired effect is to fill a tank with foliage quickly, depending on its purpose - utility v/s aesthetics. 

I think a list of the best terrarium plants, focusing on plants that won't become a nuisance, would include the following types: terrarium plants that will 1) stay in one spot 2) have the most desirable growth habits 3) grow slowest 4) won't outgrow the average tank based on mature size 5) be easiest to manage if trimming is necessary. I think plants with a combination of the those qualities would be at the top of the list. 

I've whittled down my collection to mostly low maintenance plants, but still have a few that require regular trimming or periodic heavy cutting back to start over. 

Another list idea: which plants shouldn't be mixed in a tank based on how they grow and how fast they grow? Something like, don't grow creeping fig beside your orchids - not over to worries of hybridization, naturally.  edit: oops, wasn't referencing the post above

Mike


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## roxrgneiss

ICS523 said:


> Maidenhair ferns never grow in vivs and turn out to be a waste of time and money(if anyone knows how to grow these please let me know).



I had one a few years back that kept coming back even after I would trim it to the ground. The tank had high humidity, good air flow, and the lighting was fairly bright. It was a fairly common variety I had purchased from a local greenhouse.


Mike


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## patm

Ivies are some commonly available plants that I avoid like the plague.

-Pat


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## therizman2

The issue is that terrariums are almost the perfect environment for many of the plants that we put in them. Thus they are going to grow, and many times grow fast and large.

I could argue just about any "normal" terrarium plant can get out of control. I have Oak Leaf growing up through a screen out of a tank, and all over the top of the glass. I have a Ficus villosa that has wedged its way out of a 10g that is pretty well sealed. I have ferns that have aerial roots that are FEET long growing out of tanks trying to find water. 

If you want slow, you have to pay, and usually a lot and this detours most people because they dont want to pay $20+ per plant.

Oh, and I have a Sinningia that is tiny, but has seeded itself all over a propagation tray and now I have to spend a couple hours one day pulling them all out... anything can become a nuisance given the right circumstances.


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## JimO

I've had it with Aluminum Plant (_Pilea cadierei_) and the Watermelon Vine (_Pellonia pulchra_) looks beautiful when it first starts out, but gets big and ugly pretty quick. One of my favorite plants is _Synogium rayii_, but it often sends out runners that wander all over the viv and can get 2 to 3 feet long before it decides to sprout. But, this is very manageable and the plant is worth the effort. The Pellonia isn't difficult to cut back periodically either, but the Pilea just keeps coming back and it sprouts roots all up and down the stems, which makes it look pretty gnarly.


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## Groundhog

Whoa nellie...

Is the thrust of this thread:

a) Plants that are too vigorous;

b) Plants that are too demanding?

If the first, then:

Selaginella plana
Any Episica except 'Silver Skies'
Any large (i.e., Exotic Angel) peperomia
Hemigraphis
Lysimachia
Hydrocotyle
Hy-dro-co-tyle
Hy-dro-co-tyl-e
Tradescantia
Pothos (_Epipremnum aureum_)--several better vining aroids
_Syngonium erythrophyllum_
Any dracaena except goddseffiana

I hesitate to list_ Ficus pumila_; in a big tank it can look good and be quite functional covering a back wall. Looks natural, if rather static. As for _Ficus benjamina_, many of the dwarf cultivars are easily trained. As for Birdnest's ferns, I understand they can do well for a while--but I fear hurting them if I remove them, so I avoid these. As for plants like Pellionia, Fittionia, Ruellia; these do need to be shaped up periodically; I would call these "high maintenance" rather than "out of control."


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## Pumilo

rigel10 said:


> Among the orchids schoenorchis fragrans...


Why? It's tiny and slow growing. Mine's doing fine although I haven't bloomed it yet.


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## Groundhog

epiphytes etc. said:


> I would add
> 
> Begonia masoniana
> Any rex begonia
> Almost any cane stem begon
> Begonia thelmae or 'manaus'
> Any creeping selaginella
> Billbergia iridifolia
> Philodendron gloriosum
> Any alocasia


Dude, there is a new line of Alocasias--the "Bambino" series--that seem promising. I have had one for a while, and no complaints (leaves stay smaller than a hand). I believe these may be from Agri Starts.

If you know any Begonia 'Manaus' in need of incarceration, let me know (for security purposes, of course;-)


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## frogparty

I will avoid Biophytum sensitivum. Looks great, until, you get 1000000 of them . Every seed germinates and the dispersal mechanism has them growing everywhere in no time. 
Beyond that...others mentioned here are big no nos for me (Ficus pumilia, Pepperomia caperata) I like orchids and slow growing stuff, although I do like some of the Gesneriads a lot.


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## Groundhog

Pumilo said:


> Why? It's tiny and slow growing. Mine's doing fine although I haven't bloomed it yet.


Just so ya know: _Schoenorchis fragrans_ is notorious for growing well for a while--then one day, it collapses. Seen it happen too many times to try it myself. Happens in windows, greenhouses, wardian cases, Rigel 12, the negative zone, etc. (basically anywhere but Assam).


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## Sammie

_Tradescantia zebrina_, never again


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## Plantnerd

Groundhog said:


> Whoa nellie...
> 
> Hydrocotyle
> Hy-dro-co-tyle
> Hy-dro-co-tyl-e
> "


Is it really that bad? 

I wonder if it was a mistake to take some from my aquarium and plant them in the viv.


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## Groundhog

Plantnerd said:


> Is it really that bad?
> 
> I wonder if it was a mistake to take some from my aquarium and plant them in the viv.


Yep, all three...

Oh, it will look good for a while...

Fill in spots...

Look lush..

Then it will:
--Devour the other plants;
--devour your frogs;
--devour your dog, and;
--send Audrey from _Little Shop_ crying like a little...

But, if you like it 

Seriously, it just takes off in warm, wet situations. How big a tank?


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## WinifredBarkle

Oh my. I want to thank everyone for these suggestions! I actually just put in some tradescandia pallida. We'll see how it goes. I'm hoping with some vigorous pruning I can keep it under control.


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## Plantnerd

Groundhog said:


> Yep, all three...
> 
> Oh, it will look good for a while...
> 
> Fill in spots...
> 
> Look lush..
> 
> Then it will:
> --Devour the other plants;
> --devour your frogs;
> --devour your dog, and;
> --send Audrey from _Little Shop_ crying like a little...
> 
> But, if you like it
> 
> Seriously, it just takes off in warm, wet situations. How big a tank?


Hmm.. Guess I will keep a close eye on it then. I also have some planted on a logg growing in the java moss just to see if it was possible.. But i dont want anything eating my dog for sure. Thanks for the heads up. It is a 80gal btw. 

Also I can agree with tradescantia. Tried putting some in a warding case once with some jewel orchids but it just took over the place.


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## Pumilo

Groundhog said:


> Just so ya know: _Schoenorchis fragrans_ is notorious for growing well for a while--then one day, it collapses. Seen it happen too many times to try it myself. Happens in windows, greenhouses, wardian cases, Rigel 12, the negative zone, etc. (basically anywhere but Assam).


To me, that seems more like a reason to figure out what you are doing wrong, rather than including it in a list of plants you would never use in a viv. I don't think there is much danger of Schoenorchis fragrans taking over your viv.


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## JoshsDragonz

dendrothusiast said:


> Cissus Discolor
> Chrysothemis pulchella
> Most Ficus vines except oak leaf.
> Begonia Glabra is starting to become one for me


If you don't mind me asking what problems have you had with the Chrysothemis pulchella. Does it grow too large or aggressive?

-Josh


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## andersonii85

ICS523 said:


> Maidenhair ferns never grow in vivs and turn out to be a waste of time and money(if anyone knows how to grow these please let me know).


Been growing a few over the years. Trick is moist roots, dry leaves coupled with high humidity.

Pic shows A. peruvianum (right side of viv).








Notice placement under the fan. It gets hit by the misting system in the morning and dries out over the course of the day.


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## hydrophyte

Any hybrid orchid.


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## Scott

I had a 10g vertical a long time ago - that had this plant in it.

When I finally broke down the tank - the plant had "lapped" the bottom so many times, that the root system was at least an inch in diameter.

It's a pretty plant - but so are dandelions. 

s


Plantnerd said:


> Is it really that bad?
> 
> I wonder if it was a mistake to take some from my aquarium and plant them in the viv.


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## Spaff

When I was still pretty new here, I saw someone post an ad for _Hydrocotyle_. I had to do a double take and thought to myself..."People actually keep lawn weeds in their tanks?" 

It's a cool little plant and could pass for lily pads for thumbs to sit on but it grows much to fast for me.

_Edit: To stay somewhat on topic, I'd never use Ficus pumila in a tank._


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## andersonii85

Pumilo said:


> To me, that seems more like a reason to figure out what you are doing wrong, rather than including it in a list of plants you would never use in a viv. I don't think there is much danger of Schoenorchis fragrans taking over your viv.


If I remember correctly, that species is one of the "twig" epiphyte type orchids that have fast generation times due to the fragility of their chosen hosts. Their here today gone tomorrow habit is within the biology and not the care.


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## Caden

Many peperomias grow and spread incredibly fast in vivariums. Although I won't stop using them and wouldn't advise others to not use them, I will not underestimate a self heading species' ability to fill up an entire 30H tank with a solid bulk of leaves and stems in the future (in only like 6 months too lol).


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## Duff

My dog went missing but found him after I trimmed my hydrocotyle! 

Totally agree with Groundhog - be prepared to trim and trim and trim - it gets into everything. I like it in small amounts but had to do over would not have added it.


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## Groundhog

andersonii85 said:


> If I remember correctly, that species is one of the "twig" epiphyte type orchids that have fast generation times due to the fragility of their chosen hosts. Their here today gone tomorrow habit is within the biology and not the care.


Wow--I never thought of that. So, in a way, it can be thought of as an orchid "annual," adapted to grow and reproduce quickly? Fascinating (but not worth $22.99


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## Groundhog

hydrophyte said:


> Any hybrid orchid.


How about hybrid begonias, with their equally dumb names? 

Although I must admit, some hybrid rhizos make attractive, compact, hardy terrarium plants--"Buttercup' is a great tank plant, and 'Little Darling' is tougher than its bowerae nigrimarga parent. The same can be said for many hybrid neoregelias, episcias and sinningias. The hybrids are not only attractive, but often more compact and sometimes tougher-- hence useful for us. In tanks hybrid Neos, Episcia 'Siver Skies,' Beg 'Buttercup,' mini siiningias and Alocasia 'Bambino' are the only hybrids/cutivars I will grow. 

But I still ain't growing any plant named "Little Brother Montgomery" or "Miss Priss" anywhere in the house...


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## frogparty

Groundhog said:


> Wow--I never thought of that. So, in a way, it can be thought of as an orchid "annual," adapted to grow and reproduce quickly? Fascinating (but not worth $22.99


There are palques of this orchid at the UW greenhouse that perpetuate very well. I think people are lacking the appropriate cultural techniques to keep it happy. Year round consistent temps like in a viv are actually pretty awful for the maximized culture of almost all species orchids. Without their appropriate rest periods, many orchids poop out in a hurry because theres no rest.


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## Groundhog

Excellent point, frogparty. The consistent intermediate, moist conditions preferred by many pleurothallids would not work for say, _Dendrobium lodiggesii_.

For my warm tanks, I prefer angraecoids and other warm/hot growers--but even these get cool nights and less water in winter.


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## Pumilo

frogparty said:


> There are palques of this orchid at the UW greenhouse that perpetuate very well. I think people are lacking the appropriate cultural techniques to keep it happy. Year round consistent temps like in a viv are actually pretty awful for the maximized culture of almost all species orchids. Without their appropriate rest periods, many orchids poop out in a hurry because theres no rest.


Thanks Frogparty, that makes sense. I was all over Orchid Board for info on Schoenorchis fragrans, and nowhere was it stated that they are delicate or short lived. In fact some call it downright hardy. If we can't supply a necessary season within our vivs, that makes perfect sense. Pity though, it's one of my favorite plants.


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## frogparty

design a viv with the change of seasonal conditions in mind. Plant it accordingly, then find an inhabitant that can tolerate it.


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## dendrothusiast

JoshsDragonz said:


> If you don't mind me asking what problems have you had with the Chrysothemis pulchella. Does it grow too large or aggressive?
> 
> -Josh


Hey Josh - yes that plant can become invasive with it's root system and gets big in a small amount of time. It propagates from leaves and rhizome and the tiniest remnant will produce a whole new plant. Mine took over my 18" cube blue jeans viv in almost 3 months and blocked almost all light to the floor of the viv.


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## Spaff

I think many species that we call twig epiphytes do have a relatively fast generational turnover. If you think about it, they live in highly volatile environments, so it's beneficial to the species to mature quickly to pass on the genes. That's why you see many of them blooming while still in flask. That being said, giving them optimal conditions should lengthen their lives significantly. I was surprised to read Schoenorchis fragrans is considered one of these. This was the first I'd heard that species mentioned. Most often, I've seen Tolumnia species, Psygmorchis pusilla, Aerangis hyaloides, and some Pleurothallids considered short-lived, twig epiphytes. Another reason these may crash after a while is their tendency to bloom profusely for what seems like forever. People allow them to be in constant bloom until they run out of energy and die off.



Pumilo said:


> Thanks Frogparty, that makes sense. I was all over Orchid Board for info on Schoenorchis fragrans, and nowhere was it stated that they are delicate or short lived. In fact some call it downright hardy. If we can't supply a necessary season within our vivs, that makes perfect sense. Pity though, it's one of my favorite plants.


Another thing that's just as important as seasonal change is a night temp drop. I'd say nearly every orchid requires at least a little bit of a drop from day to night. Many cool growing plants can tolerate day highs in the 70s-80s as long as it drops into the 50s-60s at night. I think the frogs would appreciate a drop too and may make mid to high elevation species a little easier to breed in captivity.

If you want to build a viv for a seasonal species, you may want to try some Mantellas 

Oh, almost forgot, if anyone's having trouble for S. fragrans, try cutting back on watering frequency and maybe mount it to its place moss-less. They tend to like to dry a bit between waterings.


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## frogparty

Spaff said:


> I think many species that we call twig epiphytes do have a relatively fast generational turnover. If you think about it, they live in highly volatile environments, so it's beneficial to the species to mature quickly to pass on the genes. That's why you see many of them blooming while still in flask. That being said, giving them optimal conditions should lengthen their lives significantly. I was surprised to read Schoenorchis fragrans is considered one of these. This was the first I'd heard that species mentioned. Most often, I've seen Tolumnia species, Psygmorchis pusilla, Aerangis hyaloides, and some Pleurothallids considered short-lived, twig epiphytes. Another reason these may crash after a while is their tendency to bloom profusely for what seems like forever. People allow them to be in constant bloom until they run out of energy and die off.
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing that's just as important as seasonal change is a night temp drop. I'd say nearly every orchid requires at least a little bit of a drop from day to night. Many cool growing plants can tolerate day highs in the 70s-80s as long as it drops into the 50s-60s at night. I think the frogs would appreciate a drop too and may make mid to high elevation species a little easier to breed in captivity.
> 
> If you want to build a viv for a seasonal species, you may want to try some Mantellas
> 
> Oh, almost forgot, if anyone's having trouble for S. fragrans, try cutting back on watering frequency and maybe mount it to its place moss-less. They tend to like to dry a bit between waterings.


I totally agree about night temp drops. Plant people that want to expand into the world of spectacular plants like ultra highland Nepenthes or Heliamphora better learn just how important that is, and learn it well

S. fragrans definitely needs to dry between waterings, and good ventilation. So few people think about the conditions where it occurs, then try to mimic that. Twig epiphytes mature fast, but also spread fast. You shouldnt see massive dieoffs, you should see mass spreading, and eventual dieback from the center. This way, when the twig breaks, a piece is still on the remaining high branch, ready to spread back out to the outer twigs when new branches grow.

Id love to do a twig epiphyte/cloud forest tank. Hook a mini chiller up to a 10 gallon tank as a resevoir for a mister/fogger and have a cold mist come rolling in every afternoon. Put some highland sirensis in it and see the response.


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## Spaff

frogparty said:


> Id love to do a twig epiphyte/cloud forest tank. Hook a mini chiller up to a 10 gallon tank as a resevoir for a mister/fogger and have a cold mist come rolling in every afternoon. Put some highland sirensis in it and see the response.


I agree! Have you seen Chris's PNG Cloud Forest Bulbophyllum tank? I'm not sure if he posted the video on here or not, but he took all the "guts" from a dorm fridge and modified them to cool a 10 gallon. When the compressor would kick on, the water in the false bottom was still warm and fog..."clouds" were actually generated because of the rapid cooling. Not sure if I actually got the specifics of the cloud formation 100% correct, but it was pretty cool regardless. I'd like to do something like this or maybe even a smaller version of Justin's wine chiller viv, and I bet Highland sirensis would be better breeders.


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## Groundhog

Boy o boy o boy:

You cats should all start a biotope commune in Seattle Living in NYC, it is a trial to grow anything cool/intermediate. For example, it seems the gesneriad growers spend all summer figuring out ways to sustain their Streptocarpus.

For myself, virtually everything I grow is lowland--except my _Begonia boliviensis_ 'Bonfire'--I have the big-ass tuber on a cool enclosed porch, take it out in April. My tanks run warm, and the hylids and hyperoliids still sit under the lights! I cannot even grow _Tillandsia puctulata_. As for orchids, I concentrate on angraecoids; they're good, but slooow. Had a _Dinema polybulbon_ for a few years; lost it in last summer's heat wave. If I try another new world orchid it will be _Sophronitis cernua_; warm/moist in summer, cooler and drier in winter. And I may try an Encyclia or two as porch plants in slatted baskets. It seems my situation is tailor-made for Episcia, Anubias and Alocasia.

Here's the begonia in August 2011 (definitely not a vivarium plant):


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## Groundhog

And here's a couple of other guys who deal with summer heat:


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## frogparty

I used to propagate Begonia boliviensis "bonfire" at a nursey I worked at. We had a summer heat wave and the greenhouses hit 120 degrees. That plant didnt care at all. Its my favorite Begonia by far. Amazing flowers.


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## Groundhog

frogparty said:


> I used to propagate Begonia boliviensis "bonfire" at a nursery I worked at. We had a summer heat wave and the greenhouses hit 120 degrees. That plant didnt care at all. Its my favorite Begonia by far. Amazing flowers.


Hey frogparty:

1) How did you propagate it? Anyone who takes cuttings just watches them decline; did you use peat, vermiculite, NZS? Bag the cuttings, or prop box? This thing's tuber is now bigger than a softball!

2) Did you notice this pattern: In Spring, lots of flowers; in Summer, lots of growth, few flowers; becomes more floriferous when the nights cool in late August.


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## frogparty

Propagate by tuber division, seed, and explant tissue cloning
I'd agree with that flowering schedule for sure


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## andersonii85

I know it's been said already, but it can't be said enough- creeping fig. Just don't do it.


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## epiphytes etc.

Arman, if you want to be rid of some of that Chrysothemis, I have a nice greenhouse spot where it can take over all it likes


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## Bunsincunsin

dendrothusiast said:


> Begonia Glabra is starting to become one for me


Really? I've been thinking about adding some to my viv. Is it an aggressive grower?


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## pdfCrazy

It definetly gets around.


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## pdfCrazy

Begonia glabra is still a good terrarium plant. I like fast growers. It dosnt get invasive. It does take a trimming now and again. What I WOULD NOT use, is English ivy, Hedera helix.


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## SDRiding

RobR said:


> Creeping Charlie ( Pilea Nummularifolia)
> Can be a bit much when it takes off depending on Viv size


I second that, I remember when it first started growing and I thought how neat it was. Now it's spread to 3 corners of the viv. It's one of the few plants I know the scientific name for in my tank because I want to make sure I never use it again.


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## Dendrobait

Is nutrient export necessarily a bad thing?

You could always bake such plants...then return them as leaf litter.


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## Whitneyd88

pdfCrazy said:


> Begonia glabra is still a good terrarium plant. I like fast growers. It dosnt get invasive. It does take a trimming now and again. What I WOULD NOT use, is English ivy, Hedera helix.


Awwww I love my English Ivy. And I love my Prayer Plant. I have both of those in my Benedicta tank and it provides great coverage for them. They seem to be much more bold now that the plants have grown in on the tank. I do foresee having to trim it back but the prayer plant has grown much faster than the ivy. Just curious why you wouldnt want to use english ivy


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## GP dynamite

I just pulled and tossed out English ivy but I'm sure it's not gone for good. It was overtaking everything and I wasn't a fan of the look of it.


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## jacobi

The roots of English Ivy (Hedera helix) are pretty invasive. A while ago someone mentioned ivy roots growing through the silicone holding his terrarium together... I'd avoid it purely for that.


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## Whitneyd88

jacobi said:


> The roots of English Ivy (Hedera helix) are pretty invasive. A while ago someone mentioned ivy roots growing through the silicone holding his terrarium together... I'd avoid it purely for that.


Wow good to know! I'll keep an eye on it as best as I can. What about Spathiphyllum 'Allison's root system. I've noticed that it seems quite extensive after only a few months.


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## ICS523

The Spathi should be fine, although it could get pretty enormous.
I think the "roots growing through silicone" thing is kind of a myth or urban legend. I cant really imagine it happening in any normal amount of time to a new tank. That said, this describes the kind of voracious growing these things do, and the fact of the matter is that they will eventually outgrow any tank (those roots are just to invasive to be kept in check, they the compact any soil around them and overcloud almost everything else). I would really advise against growing Ficus pumilia or Hydra helix in a viv they just aren't viv material, and once its in there There *NEVER* coming out.


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## asunderco

This is a great thread. Especially for us plant viv noobs. Maybe an admin or mod will sticky this in the beginner discussion area?


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## Groundhog

Oh no, it is definitely not an urban myth. As any owner of an exterior wall with ivy can tell you, this stuff can penetrate anything softer than adamantium.* 

English ivy does not belong in tropical vivaria. It is _not_ a tropical plant. It _is_ invasive. There are more _appropriate_ alternatives.

When I am finally put in charge, yes we will have U. N. black helicopter ivy inspectors...

So sayeth the Groundhog. 


(*Although in fairness, there are a few tropicals that can do it as well, including tillandsias!)




ICS523 said:


> The Spathi should be fine, although it could get pretty enormous.
> I think the "roots growing through silicone" thing is kind of a myth or urban legend. I cant really imagine it happening in any normal amount of time to a new tank. That said, this describes the kind of voracious growing these things do, and the fact of the matter is that they will eventually outgrow any tank (those roots are just to invasive to be kept in check, they the compact any soil around them and overcloud almost everything else). I would really advise against growing Ficus pumilia or Hydra helix in a viv they just aren't viv material, and once its in there There *NEVER* coming out.


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## Groundhog

A word on "invasive:"

A few years ago, I attended a Butterfly Project NYC "Native Plant Share," where they give away stuff like you see below (the goal is to attract native pollinators). I politely asked if they could recommend plants that are not too invasive (was thinking of Black-eyed Susan, which I don't like). A young lady raised her hand and politely explained that if it belongs here, then it by definition ain't invasive. The correct term is "colonizing" or "aggressive."

So strictly speaking, in a tropical enclosure, _Hedera helix_ is invasive; _Ficus pumila_ is aggressive.



ICS523 said:


> The Spathi should be fine, although it could get pretty enormous.
> I think the "roots growing through silicone" thing is kind of a myth or urban legend. I cant really imagine it happening in any normal amount of time to a new tank. That said, this describes the kind of voracious growing these things do, and the fact of the matter is that they will eventually outgrow any tank (those roots are just to invasive to be kept in check, they the compact any soil around them and overcloud almost everything else). I would really advise against growing Ficus pumilia or Hydra helix in a viv they just aren't viv material, and once its in there There *NEVER* coming out.


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## scoy

Dont like black eyed susan? You better take another route when heading through Maryland next time!!! Thats my states flower. Haha jk


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## Groundhog

scoy said:


> Dont like black eyed susan? You better take another route when heading through Maryland next time!!! Thats my states flower. Haha jk


Definitely prefer Echinacea--to me, prettier and more interesting. Then again, not a huge fan of several Asteraceae. My favorite families remain bromeliads, aroids, palms, dracaenas/cordylines, gesneriads, begonias (as you see, mostly monocots).

Yeah, I know--just the right selection for the North American temperate grower...


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