# Why Do Ferns Hate Me?



## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey All,
Every fern i get dies. I dont know why but I cant keep them alive. (even the korean rock fern..my fav fern)

Whats the basic requirments of ferns in general?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

most ferns (that ive worked with) dont tolerate water on the fronds. keeping it off has helped immensely.

james


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

It's hard to say what you are doing wrong without knowing how you grow them. Give us a run down on how you handle a new fern when you get it.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

The fern family is so large there isn't any general rule. There are some that can't ever dry out (filmy ferns) and others that have to dry out (Pyrrosia). Some like complete shade and others need full sun. 

Like Harry said, what are you doing when you get them? Which have you killed exactly (including the Korean Rock fern)?


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

Korean Rock, Lemon Button, and a ET fern.


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## SamsonsFrogs (Mar 4, 2009)

I have some Lemon Button, and its growing so crazy its starting to shoot off new baby plants, but i also have had ferns die in a viv environment. Make sure soil isnt to wet.


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

HunterB said:


> Korean Rock, Lemon Button, and a ET fern.


OK, now we know which you killed but that still doesn't tell us how you treated them. We need to know more. 

These are not hard ferns to grow but if you just pull them from the pot and plop them in a viv environment I think all would die since they have been grown in an entirely different environment. A general rule is smaller is better for me. I have had no success with densely potted plants in a high humidity, low air movement environment. They quickly rot. The ET Fern (Polypodium formosanum) is and epiphytic/lithophitic species and likes to dry out some between watering. I think the other 2 do also so if they stay constantly damp they may rot.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

harrywitmore said:


> OK, now we know which you killed but that still doesn't tell us how you treated them. We need to know more.
> 
> These are not hard ferns to grow but if you just pull them from the pot and plop them in a viv environment I think all would die since they have been grown in an entirely different environment.QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Jason DeSantis said:


> I agree with this statement. I think most greenhouse grown plants will adapt quicker to viv life. Most shelf bought or warehouse grown plants will go through the initial die off cycle. They do this because they are grown in relatively dry conditions with low light. Most greenhouse grown plants tend to be grown in higher humidity and varied temperatures. Which IMO seems to make the plants more hardy.
> J


I'd like comment on this. I am not exactly sure what you mean by warehouse grown. All the ferns in this part of Florida are grown in greenhouses or shade houses where the humidity is close to a greenhouse. I don't know anyone here in Florida that grows them in relatively dry conditions. Can you clarify that for me?? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

I do agree that ferns go through an initial acclimation period. This is actually b/c typical vivs have MUCH higher humidity than any greenhouse here would ever have. The relative humidity at these nurseries is probably around 75% and they also have fans blowing to circulate air. Vivs are 90-100% and typically have ZERO air flow and generally soggy soil. 

All those "shelf bought" plants you see were once grown in a greenhouse most likely b/c these businesses can't grow them any other way in large quantity and make money.

I never had any problems with Korean rock fern so long as it didn't sit soggy. ET fern was problematic for me. Never did great. It can though if you mount it. Lemon Button is probably the easiest. Do what was suggested, use smaller clumps. Take a big pot and bust it in half. Rinse as much soil off as you can. You can even trim most of the leaves. This will trigger the plant to produce new foliage. This is especially good if the plant is in the viv b/c the new foliage will be better adapted to the environment.


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## MichelleSG (May 1, 2010)

What about keeping a viv as a holder tank for some plants? I impulse buy plants like its a disease, can't seem to stop. I send the ones I want in a viv in progress home with Scott and he keeps them in a big huge vivarium that has nothing but plants in it until the viv is built. I plan on getting a tank soon (at that Petco sale) that I can do the same at my house (way to feed an addiction right?) so that by the time they are ready to go into somthing I am building I already know if it can take the humidity and air inside a viv.

This would at least help weed out those plants that can't survive the viv conditions before you put it in with your frogs and then stress them out when you have to yank it and replant later.

Just a thought, or rather, another option. I'm pretty well known as a plant killer (I'm a chemist, not a biologist!).


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

sorry for the lack of info haha it was late and i was tired and...yea haha

The ET came in alil roughed up and i dont think it got all the light it could of but I also watered it probably more then it needed

The Lemon Button and Korean rock, I planted in areas where they got alot of light but i think i ma have let them get dryer then they wanted


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Frogtofall said:


> I'd like comment on this. I am not exactly sure what you mean by warehouse grown. All the ferns in this part of Florida are grown in greenhouses or shade houses where the humidity is close to a greenhouse. I don't know anyone here in Florida that grows them in relatively dry conditions. Can you clarify that for me?? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
> 
> I do agree that ferns go through an initial acclimation period. This is actually b/c typical vivs have MUCH higher humidity than any greenhouse here would ever have. The relative humidity at these nurseries is probably around 75% and they also have fans blowing to circulate air. Vivs are 90-100% and typically have ZERO air flow and generally soggy soil.
> 
> ...



What I meant by this is plants are often grown in plug form and replanted in 4" pots for the big chain warehouse stores(like lowes and home depot). So after the initial growing of the plant it is shipped to a warehouse where there is not much light. At this point it leaves the warehouse when a store has the demand for the plant. This process can take up to a month with the big chains. Then it sits in a relatively dry 'warehouse' like store until it is sold. From beginning to end the plants may take 2 months or more until they are sold. Meanwhile the store gives them minimal care and waters them as little as possible. This treatment of the plants is what I mean by growing them in a warehouse. As the plants age they are getting used to 30-50% humidity and low light with very minimal water. Then we take these plants and put them in a viv and wonder why they die. I know the main growers of these plants put alot of care into them and grow them in a greenhouse. Its when they hit the retail end of things that really changes the plants IMO.
J


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

Just my two cents (as a fern seller and user). I find that smaller ferns establish much more quickly than big, rootbound ones. If you are buying them 'retail' so to speak, you are probably getting plants that are nearly too big, more likely way too big, for their pots. It will take a while for them to start growing again, and this delay can be fatal in a high humidity environment.

So... Buy smaller plants. Or divide the big ones and let them grow out just a bit before putting them in vivs. 

Of course I'm just as guilty as anybody. If somebody buys a fern, I'm going to ship the biggest one I have, because customers are conditioned to want big plants for their money. But I do think the smaller ones are a better deal.

Rob


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

littlefrog said:


> *...Of course I'm just as guilty as anybody. If somebody buys a fern, I'm going to ship the biggest one I have, because customers are conditioned to want big plants for their money. But I do think the smaller ones are a better deal.
> *
> Rob


I couldn't agree with this comment more.


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## MichelleSG (May 1, 2010)

Funny, I am constantly trying to find small ferns and they are impossible to find! I must be the only one who wants wee plants....


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

Well, I guess if you are ordering them from me (through joshsfrogs), just make a note that you want small ones. I'm always happy to send them if I know! 

I can see it now. A new line of ultra-premium ferns, guaranteed to be the littlest, least established ferns you've ever purchased! At only 50% above normal price! *grin*


Rob


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## MichelleSG (May 1, 2010)

Isn't that the way it works though? More is cheaper, less pays a premium. Costco has made lots of money on that premise.


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