# "out of favor" TIncs......?



## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

I came across a Dutch Morph guide and found some pics of Tincs I'd seen referenced in various places on the net, but have never seen for sale. 

I'm curious if these fell out of favor, magically vanished or what?

they would be:

Nominat

Cayenne

Blue Jeans

Nouragues

Mont La Fumée

Kayserburg Cobalt

Trois Piton

Brazil

I kind of liked the pics of the first 3 and would love to get some. 

And one I found interesting is they list Blue Sipaliwini, Kutari and New Rivers as being the same frog. I thought those were separate frogs, no??


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Imperial_Aquatics said:


> I came across a Dutch Morph guide and found some pics of Tincs I'd seen referenced in various places on the net, but have never seen for sale.
> 
> I'm curious if these fell out of favor, magically vanished or what?
> 
> ...


I haven't been in the hobby long enough to know about the frogs disappearing/falling out of favor. But For the Sips, Kutari and New Rivers I think they are just different varieties(not sure if you can call them morphs) of the same frog, d. azureus. I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

edwing206 said:


> I haven't been in the hobby long enough to know about the frogs disappearing/falling out of favor. But For the Sips, Kutari and New Rivers I think they are just different varieties(not sure if you can call them morphs) of the same frog, d. azureus. I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in. Correct me if I'm wrong.



Technically ALL Tinctorius are just different morphs of the same frog. Be it Sipaliwini, Citronella, or Cobalts. All are D. Tinctorius, there are no sub species. Any color morphs are specific regional adaptations. 

I was under the impression that the three I mentioned were regarded as individual morphs, but it sounds like it was being implied that Blue Sip, Kutari and New Rivers are just different names for the SAME Morph.


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## Leidig (Apr 10, 2009)

edwing206 said:


> I haven't been in the hobby long enough to know about the frogs disappearing/falling out of favor. But For the Sips, Kutari and New Rivers I think they are just different varieties(not sure if you can call them morphs) of the same frog, d. azureus. I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in. Correct me if I'm wrong.


You're close. Those three are morphs of D. tinctorius. The Azureus has also a been reclassified as D. Tinctorius. All of them are different morphs found in different locations.


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## frogmanroth (May 23, 2006)

Dendrobates tinctorius morphguide

this is from tropical experience

alot of those are the same frog its just that europe calls them a little different like this 

'Tafelberg / Kayserberg / Cobalt' these are all the same frog


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for clearing that up guys.
So it goes like this: D. tinctorious>azureus morph>blue sips morph, or D. tinctorious>azureus morph>new river morph? Is that correct? 
Same as other morphs, such as: D. Tinctorious>citronella morph>dot, or D. Tinctorious>citronella morph>no dot?
I think I got the hang of it, .


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

i think the nominat is the dwarf french guiana cobalts right? cayennes are around but rare, i think they are on herpetelogic.net

and brazil might mean the brazilian yellow heads, which are pretty common.

i think the sipalliwinis and new river and kuatari river are called different things because they were imported at different times and we dont know if they are the same morphs or not. i could be wrong though.

ive never heard of blue jeans tinctorius, only pumilio. most tincs have blue legs, haha.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

thedude said:


> i think the nominat is the dwarf french guiana cobalts right? cayennes are around but rare, i think they are on herpetelogic.net
> 
> and brazil might mean the brazilian yellow heads, which are pretty common.
> 
> ...



Check the link posted above by frogmanroth, that is where my question came from.

Brazil MIGHT be yellowheads, but the pic posted looks a lot different from the ones I've seen.

same site lists two different Cobalts, which is what I'm asking about. Similar appearance, but definitely different.

I've seen mention of Blue Jeans before, and the pics look similar to the Oyopok, except the back is more of a pale blue, where Oyopok is more of a whitish color. Also the pattern on the sides is a bit different with Oyopok having larger spots, on a whitish background, the blue jeans have spotted pattern on the sides similar to the New River, with a more blue background color.

As for the Blue Sip/Kutari/New River, that one I'm going to have to dig deeper on I guess. I don't want to end up chasing around a bunch of frogs only to find out it's stuff I already have.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Imperial_Aquatics said:


> I came across a Dutch Morph guide and found some pics of Tincs I'd seen referenced in various places on the net, but have never seen for sale.
> 
> I'm curious if these fell out of favor, magically vanished or what?
> 
> ...


Sean Stewart/Herpetologic has/had La Fumée that came in from Europe last year I believe. They look very similar to other establised morphs. (Matecho)
I was told that the Cayenne/Pallids were basically Oyapoks but larger.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

The morph guide from Tropical Experience was made by Marcus Bartelds who posts here from time to time.
Sometime back he had listed in a thread that the Sipaliwini morphs were found in different parts of the Sipaliwini River in Suriname making them their own morphs but several breeders I know have had Blue Sipaliwini adults that produce Blue, Yellow, Green, and New River looking offspring.
I have also seen Kutari & Koetari tincs for sale before....I'm unsure if this is a spelling difference or not. (Dutch vs English?)


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that, except for D.t. azureus (and the "true" sipaliwini), none of the tinctorius morphs have locality data associated with their collections. So some frogs that are kept as separate morphs (i.e. Alanis and Inferalanis, Powderblues and Powdergrays, Regina and Giant Orange) are different "lines" that have been selected from the same localities. Others (including Blue, Green, and Yellow sipaliwinis) are possibly line-bred frogs that came from one original lineage after importation. Many morphs have been imported several times from many places (i.e. standard Cobalts), which makes defining any one line more difficult.


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## frogandtoad (Apr 24, 2009)

It's not that some of these morphs have "fallen out of favor" necessarily, It's just that they have either...

1. Never been imported at all, and are just known from wild populations. 

2. They have been imported, but not in as great of numbers as some of the more common morphs have.

3. They have been imported to Europe...but not the United States.

I do know a few of those morphs are fairly well established in Europe, but haven't really gotten over to the U.S. yet. However, just this past year I have seen a few morphs finally come in that I have not seen here before (Boulanger, and Mont La Fumee). That's the first I've heard of them being in the U.S. anyways.


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