# Building a 14 feet high viv/palud hybrid



## medicineman

I'm totally new to this world of viv/terra thing (had no experience with viv before), but understand some gardening and quite mastered planted aquaria. I live in Jakarta, Indonesia, home of the rainforest and a place where you can find most of the world flora and fauna species (too bad nobody has been able to stop de-forestation around here). Temperature around my place is always warm all year at around 26-29 C, humidity at more than 75% on average.

I plan it really big to build a huge viv right inside my house. The space width is around 10 x 10 feet (I) and 22 feet high (II) and is located by the corner of the living room. The idea is to create an illusion and bring a cross section of what supposed to be a rainforest edge with a stream/pond and blend it into the living room.

For a rough illustration on the plan :

click to blow up



A. Glass panels on aluminium frame (not yet built)
B. Planted area - floor, walls with all sorts of landscaping (green colour)
C. Pond/stream area with glass panels (aquarium-like)
D. Viv outside floor, lowered (yellow)
E. Living room floor, raised
F. Living room walls
G. A ceiling opening to the sky for sunlight, probably will be covered by glass panels to reduce dust and pollution from landing into the living room. Size is almost the same as the base 

After learning for a short while, I realize that the most basic hardware thing to use in the system is a mean of raising humidity via backwall waterfall and misting system. Other than that, a source of additional light to support more demanding plants, perhaps 750-1000W Metal Halide system.

I still have a lot of time to do better planning since the house is under renovation and it would be at least some 4-5 months away before it is time for me to start building the hardware.

I really need your expertise to help me out make this dream into a reality.
Ideas and comments are highly welcome!

- Materials to use
- Ideas on building on such tall wall
- Misting system
- Lighting
- Draining
- Etc you want to share


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## eyeviper

thats a monster, it would literaly be a slice of nature. it sounds like a good plan, you must think about trees, you have 18ft of hight i think you said, well a tree is a little big for that, or it would cut out a lot of light. you coulg create a fake tree like they do in zoo's and use that as an planting area for your bromiliads, orchids, moss;s etc, etc. you would have the look of a tree and the function but dont have to worry about the growth, as for the animals, do you plan on having birds, reptiles, and amphibians, you will have to consider your choice of animals very carefully, and how your gunna care for them. 

have a look at the making a 6000 gallon viv in the construction area. he is having the same discussion as you.
good luck with it it will look amazing.[/url]


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## medicineman

Yea, a tree would be too much because it will overshadow everything, furthermore a hard wood tree would need more light than I can supply. Some slim bamboo stems that grow 6-7 feet however would be more appropriate. I'm thinking of a huge fake tree trunk right by the corner, so when fiewed from the bottom, it appears as a big root stump with its main stem growing up to the sky. This and the wall will be built from mixture of mortar and sand and possibly a trace of some other material to make it water-retaining compared to a regular concrete/mortar works. Upon taking shape, artisans will give the details such as textures and colours to the trunk and cliff, making them as realistic as possible. Now speaking of that, it would be quite a task to look for talented artisans, otherwise they will screw up the art work. I'm not too good myself and I need artistic hands to help me out. I also think of utilizing panels of slates stone in some areas for good texture.

I have the experience of keeping birds in cages, turtles, iguana, fish, dogs. I'm thinking of placing some creatures that wont roam around out of the open viv. You see, pillar B with glass panels is only halfway from the top, and the main function is to prevent mist water from escaping too far from the viv (as the mist goes down, the particels will get bigger and unable to drift too far into the living room).

wow... someone building a 6000 gal viv ... that would be a greenhouse. Havent come accross that thread when quick browsing construction section. Any link for me?


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## Frank H

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17431 there u are.


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## medicineman

Thanks frank!  
No wonder I cannot find it... it is in the member's frog and viv section (keep looking at the construction section :roll: ).

I have read that thread, and it is really something... having much more in base area than my plan. I guess I'm not less crazy than the guy, dreaming of a viv inside my house right by the living room. Very much inspired by this wall of plants made in netherlands

http://www.vivaria.nl/photogallery/phot ... tsc01.html

The pool in my plan would be some 200 gallon tank-pool and will be inhabited by fish (uh... dart fish.... the ones that can spit water), making the project something of a viva/terra/palud hybrid.

One thing in my concern, though the ambient humidity naturally gets to more than 70% (around USA it would be less than 50% I guess) around where I live, the viv planned has no full glass enclosure, instead just half of it, from the top to the middle and from the bottom 4-5 feet upwards. Will I'll be able to retain the needed humidity (so called as 90%) by depending on occacional (say 3-4x a day) misting and a series of backwall water circulation?


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## zaroba

if you live in a rainforest, why not just take out the living room wall, replace it with windows, and then build a glass addition to the side of your house from the ground to the roof enclosing the plants etc that are already thier? 

good luck with it though.
can't wait to see pics of it when its done.


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## medicineman

lol... that is what they did in rainforest resort and in some private villas in the suburbs.

But really, those lush, pristine rainforest only exist in the rural areas and not in cities like where I'm at right now. The home of rainforest in Indonesia are around the pockets, with borneo as the ultimate. Unlike in Rio where the city is next to its forest... the next best thing nearby my house is a community park, just several feet away, divided by a small road (sometimes still can hear faintly crickets and such). The problem is, the thing is far from pretty like an actual forest, too much human interference. It would be several hours worth of drive away if I want to find a good, original cool rainforest, that is within national parks where rangers hunt people instead of people hunt for timber and animals :twisted: 
I could try and make a rainforest out of my garden if only my place is not right in the middle of a tainted city where the pollution and sometimes unpure rain seriously threat the beauty out of such delicate system.


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## medicineman

LIGHTING

The system will run and depend heavily on natural sunlight which comes from an opening at the roof measuring around 6.5 x 6.5 feet (can make it up to 7-8 feet if neccesary). The opening will be partially sealed from the top using clear glass panels which is built elevated on an angle, from the sides of those panels there will be some space covered with removable fine mosquito mesh to prevent bugs from coming in. The opening with fine mesh will also provide a mean of natural ventilation to the system, taking account on how hot trapped space under a glass can be.

I use clear glass panels and mount them on an angle because other materials like plastic and polycarbonate are a bit too dark and they will get hard deposits on the surface over a short time. Unlike glass as I have seen on high rise, they withstand rain water very well and still clear, requiring cleaning just once a year, because rain water does not make hardwater deposit on glass, especially when mounted on an angle that any water will drain by itself. This way hopefully enough light can go in and reduce dependency on artificial lighting which can cost a ton to run everyday (imagine something like 1000-1500W worth of metal halide for 10 hours a day).

A simple cross-section illustration :










1. Planting space & wall
2. Non-planting space & wall
3. Roof panels
4. Sleeve to hold rain water from plunging into system, with support collumns for glass panels
5. Clear glass panels
6. Spacing for ventilation, with fine mesh

I hope I can get enough light to plant anything of vivarium plants I like. The metal halides will still be there for supplemental purpose only.


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## hkspowers

Well, I thought I I would help you ou\t there with your drawings. So I quickly threw together a model of your plan based on the drawing you showed in the first post. All the measurments are correct to what you specified. Also I put in a cube that represents a 6 foot man for a size comparison. Let me know what you think, I can also give you the wireframe of the whole thing if you want for a more accurate drawing of your prooject.

James


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## wishIwereAnExpert

Actually, it's 60000, not 6000  

And independent of viv dreams, I can still guaruntee than I'm crazier 

Anyway, I think you'll definately need some more supplemental lighting....Could you get a foot-candle measurement to see how much light you're working with? I'm guessing english is a second language; let us know if you need clarification on words etc...

-Solly


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## medicineman

@James... I'm speechless.... 

You are the best, man! The 3-D model is sooo sweeet  ... and it shows in the correct scale as well. Credits to you!!

One of these days I should learn some skills to make something like that (all I know is very basic 2-D paint drawing  ). What kind of programme allows you to make such modelling design so easily and quickly? Would someone with no design education background like me have a chance to make something like that?

I really appreciate your effort in picturing the idea in 3-D, and it would be a lot easier for me to share the plan with people, including the to-be workers, craftsmen and artisans as these people mostly work by their skills and the fact some even never graduate from technic/engineering/architecture/formal education class. If you dont mind giving me the wireframe, I'd accept it gladly with a very happy heart an a million thanks  

comment about the 3-D model :
Great job. Two thumbsup.
On the last picture (wire diagram of the water area), there is a solid mass, rock-like piece of land on the leftmost area. It would be a distraction to the view (the area with water will be viewable from outside via thick glass panels as in palud/aquarium). So the structure is better built a lot smaller and nearer to the main land area.

@wish-expert
Wow... your plan is actually 60K gallons... better put it in cubic foot because of the sheer size. You bet that you are the mad man while I'm just a crazy man .. LOL

Yes, I'm not an english native speaker and around here we do not use it (almost) at all (a big shame).

I'm kinda lost on where to find a light meter. The only thing I have is a nikon SLR camera, and I heard once that you can point the camera to a light source, taking into account ISO, shutter and apperture and come out with a calculation of light intensity (in lumens or lux). Any idea? So far I'm sucessfull in determining how much light I need just because the systems are small aquascapes.


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## medicineman

Studying some more on the 3-D model, I can see very well that I do not have enough opening on the top. So I decided to ask the house constuctor (the house is under renovation, and currently they are handling the roof structure) to enlarge the hole and add more steel beams as bracings to hold the aluminium frame with glass panels in it. 

The aluminium with glass panel, as showed on the pics can serve as :
1. Water splash guard (either from the misting system or the rain - even though the opening will be secured by a glass top).
2. Place to bolt on additional lighting system (metal halide fixtures with adjustable rotating arm, some beaming to the pool, some to the wall and ground).
3. Place to bolt on some of the misting nozzles (I have not yet get any idea how many nozzles do I need so I can determine what kind of pump power necessary).


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## hkspowers

thanks for them comments, I figured since you are adding it to your actual house, you could use something more definite to show your builders etc what you had in mind. I can change the things you wanted, and I would be glad to send you a wireframe. I am not actually done, I want to make it better now that I got started. I use a program called Maya. Although it looks intimidating, ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE can lear to use it. There are many many many websited dedicated to learning this software with many tutorials, one of the best is digital-tutors because they have many free video tutorials. A free copy of maya PLE (personal learning edition) can be dl from their website http://www.autodesk.com Well I will make some changes and give it back to you, and also send you the wireframe. Oh btw how tall do you want the glass at the bottom of the enclousure?

James


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## medicineman

Hoho.. I will look to the maya site and hopefully learn it well.

Today I go and ask the construction head man for measurements. The roofing of the house is halfway up, with pillars and beams secured and glazed roof tiles partially mounted halfway done.

-Opening of the project is limited to 7.5 x 7.5 feet due to the construction frames (cannot be enlarged).
-The height from ground to the opening is approximately 13-14 feet, so I misjudged it in the first place (will change the title as well).
-The base area is 10 x 10 feet.

Out of this 10 x 10 base, I would like to deduct 1.5 foot from the front edges because I think if the glass area for the pool is next to the room floor, the glass would be in danger of being knocked./scratched by house inhabitant.

The glass surrounding the pool (aquarium part) would be standing some 3 feet tall from the bottom concrete rims. The water will fill around 1/2 of the glass. There is no bracing on top of the glass. There would be 2 slabs of glass measuring around 6-7 feet long each, so the rest of the length up to the walls have shaped/decorated concrete. You think 12mm or 15mm glass will withstand the water pressure?

You want to draw again for me? Really, you are such a nice samaritan


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## hkspowers

no worries I will rebuild it tomorrow! It is pretty easy to do. 

James


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## medicineman

Here you go, built at early stages










Detail close up on the texture


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## Frogtofall

Excellent, excellent work. Awesome.


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## Ryan

Wow...


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## Guest

killer!


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## zBrinks

And so it begins . . . 


lol, good luck, it looks sweet so far!


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## Guest

Holly Molly!!! :shock: 
Thats huge!!!!!!


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## medicineman

Some skipped topics and in progress pics...



The skinned project area. There used to be a huge terrarium but very old style and obviously looking fake even from far away. So the whole thing was demolished along with the whole house renovation. (pic taken at around 3.30 pm for natural light availability illustration)

rough room layout 








green : garden area (project)
grey : stairs
blue : house floor (with void 6-9 meters tall)


Initial planning (the real thing is slightly modified but the concept remains the same).









1. Pond part
2. Glass viewing window (under water scene)
3. House floor
4. Land part 
5. Filter box

Construction begun



















Detail of the work while still wet










You can still see the plumbing for backwall watering and waterfall. There are 3 huge outlets by the backdrop and 2 by the pond.

The whole space is around 18 feet but the portion with thick carving will be around 14 feet.


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## Steve

This looks amazing...

Only thing is, what do you plan on keeping in it as i can't find anything in the thread.. Two Basti's and a tiger perhaps? Lol.. 

Simply awe inspiring.

Steve


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## medicineman

The only enclosure in this garden is some 70cm tall concrete and glass which hold off the pond section so basically it is an open structure. So tree frogs would be a bad idea (imagine frogs gone loose right in your living room, one drying behind the TV and another one being sat on the sofa). Nobody knows for sure what the future holds, with additional 17 feet or so glass structure on frames it will be transformed into a giant tall vivarium. 

For now fauna will be pond dwellers; mainly fish, water snail, shrimp. Any idea of other appropriate creature?

Flora will be emmersed and submersed plants of many kind, including vines, bromeliads, ferns, moss, etc.

There are still a lot of work to be done and the project is far from finished (not even halfway done).


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## Guest

you could maybe think about a large chameleon or other lizard. provided with a few nice basking spots, (you have room right? :roll: ) a chameleon may never leave that nice habitat. if he does he'd be big enough to see and not sit on  they also wouldnt dry up behind the TV like an amhibian would. 

there are probably some other large lizards that would do well in there, but i dont have much experience with large reptiles.


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## medicineman

Basking reptile? Interesting. I have two adult brazilian turtle but they will eat any fish in the pond. I also have a green iguana but he is already too large (I think) at almost 5 feet. Bigger Iguana tends to bask and stay at favourite spots, doing nothing until feeding time :lol:


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## zBrinks

I think freshwater stingrays and an arowana would be awesome in the pond, or any of the larger cichlids.


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## JoshKaptur

I'll second the chameleon suggestion, and frankly think a small colorful bird wouldn't be a bad idea either.


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## zBrinks

*If that was in my house*

Id find a way to seal it up and put some kind of thumbs in there, similar to Richard Frye's "Uberviv" with darklands. Maybe some kind of thumb with a vocalization loud enough to hear, so your living room would sould like the rainforest.


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## medicineman

Watering the cliff.

I cannot rely on manual watering all the time, there will be times when I got tired, forgot or out of free time. So a mean of automated watering system is needed.

I think misting (micron sized droplets) would not be efficient for this case, instead sprinkling would be better (almost raindrop sized droplets). I have no experiences in building or setting up sprinkling system before and have no idea other than doing it on spot to determine how many nozzles will I need. From there pump spec can be speculated. Sprinkling unlike misting would equal to less pressure but much more GPH power. I'm thinking if using regular water pump will do the job but not too sure because the height is quite tall and regular pump pressure will fail to climb up (and if the net pressure from the pump itself is enough for sprinkling). Any ideas?

*a simple solution is to set the water plumbing and pump from upstairs through the top opening. That way there is no gradient to climb so water pressure is not lost.


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## Guest

people water greenhouses from the top all the time. i doubt they have a water trough on the top of the green house, so there must be pumps that do it. you may to try and find some greenhouse supply distributers. 

i dont have time now, but out of curiousity im going to look into this afternoon..


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## zBrinks

Why would misting not be effective?

If you choose the sprinkler route, why not just set up a basic "sprinkler system" like for the yard, plumbed through your water supply (and maybe a water purifier inbetween there)? 

As far as large lizards go, a few come to mind:

- Water Dragons
- Sailfin Dragons
- Emerald Monitors
- Basilisk
- smaller Iguanids
- Cuban Knight Anole
- various Chameleons, panther and parson's come to mind

Of course, research some more before coming to a final conclusion, these just come to mind when I think of larger rainforest lizards. Personally, the emerald monitor is awesome, and has a reputation for being a difficult captive, but if you acquired captive bred young and gave them sufficient room (doesnt sound like a problem!), I think they could do really well, from what I've read.


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## medicineman

I think misting would be less efficient because (as in fog-like fine droplets of water in micron size) there is no enclosure to hold of the fog like particles. Bigger sized droplets however is OK, which is between mist and a regular sprinkle, the particles are heavy enough to land soon enough without getting carried away out from the garden area (and end up humidifying/wetting the house).


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## medicineman

Fast forward and the base rough backdrop and pond is finished  



















Next would be completing the pond, external plumbing, filter box, attaching glass and more...


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## Guest

this thing is going to turn out crazy! im so glad you are keeping us updated. please dont let this thread slip through the cracks. i feel i will be devistated if i cant follow the rest of the way along


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## medicineman

You're welcome  

This forum is a great place to get valuable and important comments, especially on the background and how things work as in a vert.

Some comment on the pics:

Now the whole base backdrop/cliff is almost complete and will be fine tuned for water cascade. It would be necessary to carve or add some parts so the falling water will drop nicely and to/trough the right spots.

The pond section is also taken shape with its basic mortar layer for water resistance. Steel bars are still there and right on that spot it will be layered with concrete casting which will act as glass support frame. The strength will be exceptional that we think it will endure someone sitting on the glass with the water filled in (it is the contractor's idea to make the structure last for long time and sure it does cost the cool look of a full glass joint)
You will note a pool of shallow water for testing. It was used for pre-tuning the cascades and after that to test draining, making sure that every drop drains to the base of the pole sticking out in the middle).

On the leftmost bottom the control box is already casted. All valves to the drains are gathered in there and channeled into the house pre-sewer. I'd think of a nice way to cover it yet easy enough to open up for maintenance/draining.

That boxy structure by the left is the filter part. It is still to be further decorated by the outer skin to get more natural look and reduce the boxiness.


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## Frognut

*Great project!!!!*

here are a few pics of larger fog/misting systems. they are used in greenhouse and conservatorys for watering and keeping the temp/ humdity in check.








Como Park Fern Room the misting system would fill the room with a thick fog every 1/2hr or so no other watering system apered present.








This is a view of the 1000psi fog system in action. I used it on this years parade float. this isnt the best pic of the float but it shows the efect of the fog in an outside area. 10 nozels in an area of 220sqft. at times durring the parade the fog was ahead of us and covering the croud.


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## medicineman

Perhaps no 1000 PSI for me, around 50-100PSI instead will be better. Fog does get carried away even without any wind, I wouldnt want to moist the whole living room with mountain dew  
BTW I'm in the tropics and around here humidity is always above 65% at least even in the dryest day (sometimes 90%+ during rainy season). A waterfall, a pond and occacional daily misting will certainly support plants.

Anyway here is my own simple illustration on how the water will cascade










In reality there will be no small bits of water particle, because the water is lacking in velocity due to the realively short height. Perhaps installing something like a shower by the main water output will cut in down smaller?


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## Frognut

There is a micro spray for irrigation. The part you see is about as big as a pen and it is flexible 30psi is recomended. I use these in small flower beds. I will try and get pics and more info.

Scott


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## jpstod

awesome

can't wait to see this completed

I plan Volunteering at our Nature center and wanna promote Projects like this there.

We Currently have a butterfly conservatory being built and will be working there after the scheduled opening in December.


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## medicineman

OOT project:
I did asked the team to build me a garden, but they propose an outdoor water garden instead (and let it up to me to fill the water part) to be built on 267x 27 feet space. 
They must be too eager to make some exotic work order that comes in just occacionaly....
But there is no chance that this one will have viewing windows by the pond (just like a palud)... too monstrous. There is no way I want to handle 6000+ gallon outdoor sunken garden filled with aquascaping! 
I'm still thinking hard on this one, fearing on more and more maintenance while daydreaming of a nice landscape with addition of high pressure fogging/misting stystem for watering/visual/cooling effect.

Illustration
(sorry for the big pic)


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## medicineman

There is an open space right in between the light opening and the backdrop cliff and right now it is just covered in thin mortar crust. The team and I have some options in mind to do on that part:

1. Carve it lightly. This will create homogenous look along with the rest of the structure but it will appear too menacing (and kinda spooky) because it rises up too high. Best surface for climbing plants, and it also create extra pockets to stick more high light three top plants like bromeliads.
2. Finish with mortar, give a bit of rough pimples stamping and top off with colour gradation, matching the cliff below. Will look less menacing and also still great for climbing plants to cling to.
3. Finish it smooth and paint blue sky with some clouds and natural scenery stuff (perhaps partially drawn cliff then sky). Will look cleanest, serene and least menacing. Plants cannot be allowed to climb up too far or otherwise the sticking roots will ruin the paint job. I even have a very funky idea of installing fiber optic lines or LEDs by the sky painting to be area to make starlight effect at night. 

Now tell me what do you think? (your very own suggestions and ideas are also welcome)


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## malac0da13

i like the starlight option...sounds like it would look really neat at night and have a light to simulate moonlight too


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## zBrinks

Number 2!


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## Guest

number 1 sounds good. You dont have any pictures of the hosue do you? would love to see what it looks like...my dads a developer.


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## Guest

are you talking about the area that looks bare in this pic? if so i think optiuon 1 or 2 would be better than 3. i dont think either will look menacing , but if im not talking about the right area, please point me in the right direction.


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## medicineman

@2mnytnx,
Yes, that is the part. And further more upwards up to the light opening.

Not to worry, the team and I decided that option#2 is going to be likely the one as creeping plants are going to be used. The pic you saw is a bit outdated and it does not show progress pic (and the top part is not yet done). 

Updates will be slow now onwards. The job must be done slowly to match the house progress. Furthermore now the whole house project is on halt due to long holiday break of IED (end of fasting month), many of the workers went to their hometowns or taking a break with their families.

Last update (with no pic) is the pond area which is almost finished with its glass panels installed. Currently it is under leak test, filled with water all the way up. So far so good, 6 days passed by and the water is still there.


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## medicineman

In the end we opt for building all the way up. Quite tall indeed.










Glass are on and the pond area was under test for leaks










Aquascape for the pond section would be very nice... just like my tank. Enjoyable from both the top and from the side viewing windows.


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## devin mac

impresive, to say the least. I can't wait to see this with some plants and the water feature running. outstanding work.


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## zaroba

wow, looks like its coming along nicely.


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## medicineman

Here is the overall pic of the garden from top to bottom (and a working guy for comparison).










And this is the filter chambers taking shape










The filter itself is estimated to hold 125+ gallon of water, hopefully big enough to treat all the pond's water.


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## dustin_grey

Holy hell, having the people in there puts how big this thing really is into perspective. I knew it was big, but DAMN! Looks like something you would see in a zoo. Its going to be a masterpiece.


Keep us updated.


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## roberthvalera

Oh my god its huge!!!!! Planting that thing is going to be crazy!


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## Guest

That cascade is going to be sooo cool!! 
ANy idea on what plants you will be using? Any Amorphophallus/other Aroids?


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## medicineman

Here is a guy doing the filter. 










And you can see here is the top view of the pond area. I can already see some lily pads flowering :lol: 



















@dustin_grey,
The pond area idea comes from public aquarium display, where you have those petting pools. 

@oberthvalera,
Planting it is one thing. Maintaining it would be another thing :roll: 
I hope I'll be ready for that.

@Khamul1of9,
You bet the cascades will also get partially planted for a jungle look.
It is still in early stages and it will be quite a long time before I start planting anything. I'm not such an expert in botany or gardening, so perhaps as starter I will try easier plants like creeping plants, pothos, ferns. Amorphophallus? I think they are not so easy to get around here (cannot find them so easily around plant dealers). I thought they are too huge and smelly?


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## zaroba

pond?
looks more like that could be a small pool


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## Guest

Well some Amorphophallus are small and smell good. Goodluck!


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## lukebalsavich

wow nice looking so far. 

I am definitely supporting the idea of lizards (green basilisk or chameleon). You could also partially close and area and try an emerald tree boa? Or set up a nice perch for a bird?

Can't wait to see it with plants.


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## arrow-frog-fan

Looks awesome! Where exactly is thing being built? Is it a public zoo type place, or a private residence of some sort?


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## Frognut

Looks great so far cant wait to see some plants!


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## joeyo90

so wheres the diving board goin? lol just kidding very cool looking planting and maintaining it seems like it will be quite a difficult task although not a task lacking in fun


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## gatebil-reptilen

damn.. lookin good so far! :wink: I wish u good luck with project, and keep us updated!


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## medicineman

At last, painted!! (it is a slow, often paused job after all due to the house condition).

I give my contractor freedom for couring the cliff. They made a first layer of this :










Dark primer colour with brighter red and yellowish highlights. I like the colour, though at the current condition I think the colouring is not bold enough, leaving some areas still cement-like. I asked them to take their time and do a good finishing job before applying with even slightly darker colour and much more highlights.


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## Ryan

I can't wait until this is complete, this is such a cool thread.


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## medicineman

> pond?
> looks more like that could be a small pool


Lol... guys, you know that once I joked around inside that pond area (back then there was no glass and water yet). I pretend to bask in there, saying that this might turn into a good jacuzzi :lol: 



> Looks awesome! Where exactly is thing being built? Is it a public zoo type place, or a private residence of some sort?


Hoho... if you followed the first page, this is built right inside our house. A private residence, right in the living room (where there is a high void area).

Any words and opinions about better colour scheme is welcome!


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## oslodunc

Hi,
As for colour scheme, i think if your're going to plant it heavily alot of the background will eventually dissapear.
Maby just very earthy colours?


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## medicineman

The story behind filtration system.

I'm using overflow filtration, so the surface would be always scum and debris free. It is just important to have clear surface in a pond, especialy when you have interesting things to see within from the top.

Here is the planning. Water overflowing from the pond enters filter and go trough chambers of different filter materials. Then water will be collected at the end chamber and pumped back to the pond.










1. Inlet from pond. Surface will be clean from film and any trash.
2. Filter chambers. Will be accordingly filled with brush, ceramic rings, bio balls, filter mat, sponge and filter floss.
3. Backwash drains (controled by individual valves)
4. Overflow drain, controlling water level at constant height.
5. Return line.

The filter is designed for ease of maintenance. Most dirt, debris, mud, whatever it is will be mainly stuck at the base of each chamber. The valves at the bottom of each chamber serves as backwashing system. Open the valve and the way will ease, draining the silt deposit along. Doing WC is also painless despite of its huge size. Just open a valve to the pond, fresh water will mix evenly and end up at the filter as well. Water surface will rise over time and overflow at the filter drain, eliminating any excess water while keeping the water level exactly constant. Heavy maintenance can also be done at spot. No need of moving filter media and causing mess around the house. Simple and easy.


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## costaricalvr12

medicineman said:


> I'm totally new to this world of viv/terra thing (had no experience with viv before).


 This is a pretty good beginning viv :lol:. When the viv is done it will be truly beautiful. You may as well go rock climbing in the viv when you get bored.


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## medicineman

The skylight roof frame is set. It is made of strong aluminium alloy pieces, might not look like it but is rated to withstand a man cleaning on it (important for ease and safety of maintenance).










Now waiting for the laminated (double bonded) 10mm glass pieces in production. The glass pieces are also film protected to hold them in place in case of being broken.

This is going to be a nice addition, not only as a free light source but light up the house as well during the day. Even though with no garden inside, a house will feel better with one of these installed.


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## medicineman

Now the re-coloured cliff.

With darker base and more highlights it looks a bit more earthy. The team did painting technique what they call as "washing" (as the name suggest it involves splashing, washing and brushing pigment).










Slow update on work :
As you may already know that the job progressed very slowly since it is a syncronized job to the house under construction. Each must be matched with the house progress in order to prevent damage to each other (ie : dust and mortar from stair work will stain the pond below).

1. Re-colouring (not final yet). The top part is likely done, but lower part will suffer from house work and will need another retouch.
2. Perfecting some details on pond and cliff, smoothing up and extra texturing
3. Finishing the filter chamber (and testing will be next). I still need to cover up the filter later on with something.
4. Setting the waterworks on waterfall to make the cascade falls as planned. The valves worked as planned that I can control how much water is falling. I would not want too much water and end up having a noisy fall inside the house (and to also think of that excessive surface agitation it created).
5. Some cleaning job (they actually cleaned my tainted glass good enough ). Murky water... 
6. Frame for the skylight (no glass roof yet, coming soon from workshop).

Yesterday I came over by request to inspect how the water flows from the pond, then to the filter and returned via the falls and through two underwater jet holes. Everything seems to work perfectly with constant water level before and after the pump runs (important when power is out, no water is wasted just because the pump is off). The 100W pump seems to be too weak for the job though it has the power of H max, but I'd say it lacks the needed GPH. Whenever I turned the valve to the underwater jet open, the flow to the falls would decrease significantly to a point when there is hardly any falling water.
If bigger pump, special 150-250W pond pumps does not resolve the problem well enough, perhaps I will be adding a powerhead or two in the pond just to improve circulation. 

Here is a teaser on close up of surface texture and colour:


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## JoshKaptur

It's been said a dozen times, but this really is amazing. I honestly thought it was some pipe dream of yours when you first posted, and never imagined seeing it progress this far. Keep on plugging, and keep on updating this thread please!


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## medicineman

Well.. can never underestimate the power of dreams (so as what Mr Honda said).

More textures and close ups :


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## medicineman

This is the filter intake. As the work progress, we decided to give it more camuflage so that it would not look obvious.
You can see from the side that the nook is actually a hole, here clearly seen because water level is currently under.










Once water level reaches target height, it will overflow to the filter chambers.

And here you can see once again the filter box. 










Note that now you can no longer see any overflow route since it is already built within. The chambers are closed with a thin plywood for house constuction (stairs for exact). I plan to cover up the chambers later on but with something freely breatheable, wrought iron grill for example. Such grill bars would cover up the ugly view of a filter and would be a great surface to place some pots of house plants (then you have the filter box "dissapear").


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## kyle1745

WOW, keep us updated as so far this looks amazing.


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## AquaManCanada

Incredible project medicineman!!! I went through the whole thread and wow. Very amazing. So do you have children? If not I am up for adoption? :lol:


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## medicineman

OK... it has been too long since there is ever any update, so here I go again.

As mentioned before that I might be needing a form of extra lighting to supply the lower part of the garden with sufficient light to grow that compact plants and wider selection. And that lighting source other than natural sunlight which hits in enough intensity during noon hours must be artificially made. To light up something this big while looking good, there can be only one way; going for HID. My choise is MH again since HPS would be too yellow and promotes too much of just vegetative growth.

I pick 400W MH light with tough industrial fixture. All metal alloy casing with reasonable quality reflector combined with 6,000K osram lamp. I know people saying that I might not have enough light intensity and coverage with just 400W and advise double fixture and even a single 1000W MH system.
My doubt about using 400W MH light is answered from testing, as shown here










Hanged at around 3-4 feet from expected water surface (shown here with low water level, around 5 feet away), the fixture spreads almost the correct coverage I want. Not too much spills, but lighting up all the pond area as well as a small part of the lower cliff. Easy on the eyes of the viewers and does not obstruct the overall view too much. Anyway when the house is inhabited, there will be gentle ambient light for the house, negating the extreme contrast a bit.

Selecting 400W light is a correct decision I'd say. You can see part of the cliff is all washed out, indicating how serious 40,000 lumens of light can be even though it is hanged several feet away (compared to several inches in a tank as in CF lights). The top part above the light may be almost pitch dark at night, but during daytime they get much more sunlight than the lower area. That can be fixed easily with mild CF spotlight to create some mellow lighting effects on canopy when it is getting dark.


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## Guest

That sounds good. The ones that get sunlight, I agree, have had enough for the day. Nice pond. Have you started planting yet?


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## medicineman

Using spot light type MH and hang them on the canopy might work. But at higher level, more light will be lost and I would end up using much stronger light, such as a single 1000W MH. I think by then I would see some power guzzling issues with other tanks I will be running along :icon_conf 

I'm actually planning to hang the light that low, just for the boost of the pond part since the upper region is already well dreched by stray sunlight. The light itself is actually falling in just nice with no obvious dark spot inside the pond.










A wrought iron hanger (garden style) specially shaped and mounted from the stairs' side would look sweet. Add in a pivot on the mount, and the hanger could be swinged to free the view, perfect for sunny months when additional light is less needed and overall photo sessions.










Another idea is to hang the lamp via a cable with a pivot and winch at the ceiling and have the lamp automatically retrieved by the winch out of the way when the light is off. That would be clean and very cool.. but will make complicated design as well remembering the system must be build and installed up high.


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## sylgrock

pleases , don't let die this post :?


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## ondeck25

WOW....and I thought I had an obsessive personality...LOL...That is the most amazing construction journal I have ever seen!! Keep it up...I LOVE IT!!


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## the_noobinator

medicineman: i've been away from plantedtank for a while, but please keep visiting here and keep us posted with this project. i've been watching it for almost half a year now.


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## medicineman

Worry not, folks... for I did not update anything since there has been no further advance on the project. The whole construction has come into a halt in conjunction to the house progress. The work must stop since it gets dirtied and smeared by the other construction jobs; wood dust from stairs, windows and doors work, fine dust and cement particles from sanding and things carried away from other area. 

The cliff is in dirty shape right now, I intend to clean it good and re-wash it with vibrant colours for I hate the cementy-concrete look. That is after all the messy jobs at other sections of the house are done for good. 
THere are always upgrades, delays and defects on such house project and I guess you cannot really rely on any time estimation.

So the updates will eventually come as the progress continue.

@the_noobinator,
It is good to see you again here. How is your planted tank(s)? mine are overgrown and needs serious attention :roll:
If you check out this single colony of java fern you will know what I mean :shock: 









A mineral water bottle for size comparison. I'm going to transfer this clump into the pond later on


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## ProjectReptile

Sweet Lord, this is one amazing project you have going MedicineMan! I just found the thread but I did start reading it from page 1. As I saw the wall construction I thought "Oh wow, that looks pretty cool." Then I saw the picture with the worker in it for comparison and my thoughts turned to "HOLY SH*T!" haha
Anyway, just some thoughts on the critter you have living there. The chameleon idea would be cool, as well as some other lizards... but I'm just wondering how you would go about feeding any animals in a set up such as that. You cant just dump crickets or roaches in their tank and walk away. From what I gather, the viv is not going to be totally encased so there will be the risk of the animals wondering afar... feeders included. Hmmmm... that will be something I'll have to think about.
***If it were my house*** - I would go down the Amazon route. I would add some blackwater extract to the pond to get a nice amber tone, the pond would be inhabited by piranhas with some sunken driftwood for decoration. A neat idea also would be (if you don't mind free-roaming giant spiders) to get some nice looking Nephila species of spider and let them go up near your sky-lite. That size opening is PERFECT for them I can almost guarantee they would never leave that spot and wonder into your house. Heck, if you live in Indonesia, you could probably find some Nephila pilipes annulipes right around your house for that matter! I had some in my animal room for over a year. I just put a heat lamp in the corner that ran for 12 hrs, and set up a few 5x5ft frames made of wood near the lamp adn they built their web in them and I never had a problem with wonderers.


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## Studdlygoof

I'm imagining some huge spider building a huge web in a shower...would be an awakening experience early in the morning...if you make it out alive that is....


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## medicineman

Hi again.... 

Finally the work on the house in nearing completion and it is getting much cleaner now. All the major renovation surrounding the project are generally done and I suppose no more construction jobs left to ruin my pond-cliff. 

After some good cleaning and rinsing off, I found the whole details to be intact. The pond glass are OK with no scratch mark (thank wrappings on the glass panels), but the cliff is not that good. 
Workers were called back again and they re-touched the finishing, giving details and even more vivid colours. Places that will come into contact with water are sealed/coated so that the water system would not get too tainted by alkaliness of curing cement mix (heard it might takes months even several years before leaching stop), giving fish-safe assurance. 

I chose uneven, naturally occuring pebbles of earthy colour as covering for the garden floor, an obvious break to differentiate the house granite floor from the garden floor. 
Hey... it feels nice too when you stand on it, nothing like massaging your feet while enjoying the garden 









(It actually looks more earthy than in the pic. Pardon me for the standard quality for it is taken using phone camera). 

I guess it is time for me to start planning and collecting some plants, saving for what next to come. This is escpecially important for the emmersed plant part to be given head start since they grow slowly acting as main factor for that "jungle" look over time.


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## medicineman

I already have this Philodendron black cardinal








The big ones can get quite large.

And this pink bromelia








Still looking for more exotic bromelias. Hoping to find the place soon.

You think such plant may grow very well at such light level?

I'm thinking about Philodendron scandens as climbing plant. Not too sure it it would work though, for I heard that they are better suited at higher light level than the regular houseplant in order to grow and spread.


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## medicineman

I'm about to start planting and planning the types of plant to buy right now. Already at my disposal : bird nest fern, pothos, philodendron, piper sp, bromelia sp.

I've not yet called in for misting system for now, but will be searching for any local company who is able to build me one.

Something puzzled me now is how do I plant the smaller plants into nooks and cravis of the cliff. The big ones are easy as they are formed pot-like structure and holds very well. 

I need your advise and experience on what kind of mix to use so whatever substrate I use (likely to be coco peat mix), it will stick to the nooks and crannies without failing early due to misting water washing down. I've heard of concrete hardener with coco peat, peat and silicon and such, but would appreciate to hear the best out of experience. Failed and fallen spots are not easy to repair on this scale.

Those nooks are just right to be planted with small ferns.
I know the right place out of town to harvest them for free


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## dragonfrog

Can't say enough about this project!!
Medicineman, you have entertained us greatly with the beauty of your "greenhouse", would it be asking too much to see the rest of the house? It would be interesting to see how the two compare and to see how they inter react. I am very curious as to what you do for a living? (Doctor, I would presume).
Just Awesome, can't wait to see it finished. 
I wish I could answer your question about potting medium but I would not know the correct answer.


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## medicineman

Ladies and gentlemen.... I present to you the finished, cleaned product  









1 hour before dawn

No... not planted or decorated yet, but that part will be on the way.
This time no work will ever stain or dirty my garden again, for all major work on the house is finally over.

If you can note some plants are already there, but still in their pots and not yet planted and I still need heck a lot of plants to fill in the crannies.

It came across me the idea of a bird's nest. The same structure could be artificially built from degradable natural material such as woven plant fiber (probably attached to the walls by nails) and this can act as vantage points for epifits such as ferns, vines, small bromeliads. Already I made some three fern panels to attach bird nest fern to the walls.

A major setback that prevent me from proceeding to planting is the lack of misting system. It is virtually difficult to find any around here. Some that are available are large greenhouse "aeroponics" pumps, while othes are high pressure fogging machines running at 1000-1500 PSI. These are just out the equation for me, in capacity, pressure, machine size and not to mention the ridiculous price tag ($1,500 at the least).
This forced me to resolve something such as DIY misting system. I'm talking about high pressure cleaning machine, portable size (the stuff they use for cleaning your AC). They are able to run long time at once (though still considered intermitent duty) and max out at 500 PSI, but is adjustable via a meter gauge to run at less than half that pressure. The flow rate is 0.7 gpm, and with the right nozzles I think I will be able to run at least a dozen or so of modestly sized spays. No performance chart... but so far this is the best that I can find, costing very low at just around $ 100.


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## holidayhanson

Ive been reading this post for days. I cant wait to watch it progress....now your getting to the reall fun part.

As for a mister....Get a weather station, they have ones which can have multiple remote readers. I am guessing the humidity where you live could be suitable without a misting system. For a do it your self misting system on this scale you should look into drip irrigation systems. You can hook these up to a garden hose and there are hundreds of different misters, foggers, drippers, etc that you can attach to 1/2" line. This way you can control which plants get more water and which get less. Irrigation parts can add up quick but at this point...whats another $1500? I know I blew my budget long ago...but after a while I didnt really care. If I need it...buy it.


Also your water fall will raise the humidiy a lot!!! I would let that sucker run 24/7 and see what that does to your humidity levels. It will also help to rinse out concrete dust, etc. You may also want to check the ph of your water after its been running for a while. I dont know what ph is good or bad but it might be worth looking into. 

Post a picture of your waterfall in action....I want to see! Having it run constantly will allow you to see where your wet areas are. It also takes a while for water to leach into various areas. They seem to get wider the longer they are on. 

GREAT JOB!!! Have fun planting that guy! Looks like you might need to take up rock climbing!


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## dragonfrog

I don't know what is wrong, but that last picture you posted is not showing up.


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## medicineman

Fixed this one due to some problem with the limit of server










I'll take more close up pics later


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## medicineman

As per requested, here is a pic of the waterworks in action (shown only the center part).
Sorry for the standard pic. To create whitewater effect and see it clear next time I need a tripod and slow shutter speed.










The flow dribbles trough intended spots, creating the desired effect. No excessive splashes (tunable via a ball valve strainer) and water surface of the pond/tank remains relatively still enough to enjoy aquatic plants (will be there later on) from above.

The flow path is also suitable for growing emmersed form of aquatic plants or bog plants such as anubias, water sprite, moss.


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## Guest

By far the largest househeld viv/ paludarium I have seen. Love the cracks going all the way the wall.

Thanks for sharing,


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## Guest

When are you going to plant it? Very cool!


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## medicineman

Well guys, to plant this one I must go slow. It is first experience after all. I also must wait for the misting system to be installed and running before planting any sensitive, moisture loving variety of plants.

Anyway, here is an example of the harder type of plants I use :










I've found a good contender as for DIY misting pump. An adjustable high pressure pump, rated at 1 gph, pressure is 0 - 35 bar and able to work nonstop for up to one or two hours. Sweet enough for the job at just $ 200.


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## medicineman

Here in close up you can see that water surface is being set quite high, following nowaday's trend. I like it that way, even though this might cause me those jumpy fish. 










In reality it looks more like that the water will overflow in any minute, but it wont since there is already an overflow box to the filter to keep it level.


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## dragonfrog

Hey look there is a hammerhead in there already!!!

Beautiful setup, wish it were mine!!!


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## Jungle_John

this is awsome, i one day hope i can do somthing like this.


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## nitsuj

dragonfrog said:


> Hey look there is a hammerhead in there already!!!


 :lol:


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## zBrinks

Ok, now throw in about 300 cardinal tetras, and you're all set  

Flippin awesome!


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## Dendrobait

This is looking great! 

Not sure what you want with it...but you could add some large real rocks along the sides, increase the flow of the waterfall, and have a pretty good tropical river setup. Were it not for the high waterlevel I could see a colony of Xiphophorus montezumae in here!


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## medicineman

> Not sure what you want with it...but you could add some large real rocks along the sides, increase the flow of the waterfall, and have a pretty good tropical river setup. Were it not for the high waterlevel I could see a colony of Xiphophorus montezumae in here!


The idea might also work in the future!
Who knows if I ever get bored. 
To make such river setup I need to do some modification to the system, (minor ones, could be done in one day) to reverse the flow of filter and create extension for plumbing. As easy as that, water level could be made as low as just 10 inch or even slightly less.

Now, 1400 pounds of quartz from off shore Bangka is waiting to be washed. Dont want any sea-taste in the system for sure. This is going to be tiresome.


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## &gt;Jesse&lt;

Its so.. beautiful!! I am extremely envious of you right now! Please keep updating as you get what you need! This post will be very helpful when I win that lottery I have been planning on winning :roll: !


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## &gt;Jesse&lt;

Anything??


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## Herpboyben

one word holyfreakingcrapthatlooksnice. :lol: 

Ben


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## the_noobinator

could you soften the water up enough for discus? :wink:


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## rmelancon

First off that is an amazing project to pull off in your house. Second, I read through the thread and didn't see this answered so wondering what the background is constructed of? Looks like it could be gunnite? I am assuming straight cement would be too heavy...


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## medicineman

@rmelancon
The construction is mainly made out of sand, cement and involving special way to mix and shape. Inside there are steel reinforcements and lower part has concrete backfortification, so the structure is strong enough to withstand local elements and even a guy climbing the wall.

Here is how the concept base fertilizer (yes, I make my own ferts) for the pond part looks like









Light brown grain of high concentrated granules that it has to be mixed well with a part of plain sand/fine gravel to work. It got lots of stuff inside ranging from minerals, iron, micro elements to partially soluble macros. I dont expect best result out of the first initial testings, but will hopefully get more refined later on.

I mix the stuff to 5 times it mass (which I say is a bit to the strong side) with dry 1mm grade silica sand, 40+lbs of fertilizer to 200+lbs of sand in total. I didnt bother to clean/wash the sand beforehand since it is intended to be placed at the bottommost part of the setup, forming a layer of heavy mix 1-1.5 inch thick. 
Then another layer of capping 1-3mm grade gravel is added on top to seal the mix from water collumn, totalling in about 3-4 inches of substrate.

Meanwhile we take a look at some of the emmersed plants I planted earlier for a head start. With the correct care and enough mix of added fertilizer, they started promisingly to take off.

Here is a kind of red Piper sp, a climber.









And here you can see a group of climbing green Philodendron sp


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## rmelancon

medicineman said:


> ... The construction is mainly made out of sand, cement and involving special way to mix and shape. Inside there are steel reinforcements and lower part has concrete backfortification, so the structure is strong enough to withstand local elements and even a guy climbing the wall.
> ...


So is this a proprietary "guarded" process or is information on the process available via the internet and/or publications?

Also being that a large component is cement, was there any special curing process so that chemicals, etc. would not leach into the water?

Did the painting of the structure seal it perhaps?

Again, thanks for your time in answering. Robb


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## medicineman

@Robb,

I did not know very well the process for the I did not play main role in building the cliff part. So far as I observe, they use normal cement-sand mix with a backwall coating for most of the cliff and special concrete mix for the waterwork area. Then several coating of paint is applied (must be the primer part), in fact another recolour was done along the process. Lastly the pond part is given pond coating (like what they use in koi ponds). 

Curing process involves some showers from rain (no overhead glass panels for several months of construction), sunlight. Going on for a year or so before I started any planting (house construction cause delays).

Usually over time the pond lining or coating will partially worn off. By the time, usually there will be no problem at all so far I observed at hundreads of people's concrete lined ponds. Big or small, outdoor or indoor, shops or home, all are doing good enough for fish to live in for prolonged time. Usually the problem only lies in the beginning and it would be smooth after that.

Back to project,

First, like I mentioned before, the first layer of substrate-fertilizer goes in. 20kg+ of base fert mixed well with around 100 kg of plain gravel.









Then, additional plain gravel for capping is added, forming a nice layer of plant bed some 3-4 inch thick, sealing the fert mix below from getting directly into water collumn.
You can see here the substrate is being manually flattened and inspected for correct minimum depth (since there is no way to see by eye if enough substrate is being used.


















In total, currently 12 big sacks of white silica sand, 1-3mm grade goes in (some 1200+ lbs).

After that water is filled in slowly, up to a halfway point. This is because I just want to condition the tank first before pumping excessive water out later on and start again with hardscaping and eventually planting.


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## HappyHippos1

updated pics ?


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## Laxman

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^yeah i definetly agree


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## medicineman

Pardon me for lack of updates, catching up where I left...

Being finished in soaking and cleaning for fine dust for these past few days, all lava rocks goes in and form the hardscape, creating a beach side look.









Kinda split into two sections of rock grouping. Another angle of view from top.









And one other from the side.










Later on my plants arrived in two big cardboxes.

I start off immediately, not leaving excess precious time before the plants can go bad in the tropical weather. First of all water level is being lowered as low as possible to ease planting job. Then the planting continue in just damp condition, and in this way of planting, things get much easier. No excessive murkiness since ther is no disturbance to the substrate to mix with water. When planting dry, a handheld sprayer is your best friend, keep the plants moist enough during the planting and filling water.


















It took quite some time to fill the pond despite the fact that the house is fitted with double 1000L water towers and two wells. Reserves almost ran out so water filling must be stopped for a while and continue the next day.


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## Laxman

awesome too bad about the water situation.
it looks sweet. will the aquatic plants that you chose bloom up and be visible from the sides as well as the top??


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## HappyHippos1

Impressive!


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## AaronAcker

Full Viv shot?? if possible?


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## medicineman

And here is the garden several days after initial setup day.
Water clears up a bit and already I put in several algae eater to counter excessive algae growth.










Lets see towards free time and more possible plants and hardscape to use in the pond. 
Some tree trunk or bark and more plants for the cliff would be nice. Could use more plants for sure.

I decided to put one of my favourite fish in, several hundread of schooling rummy nose will do I think. Pre order is necessary at this scale and now it proves good to know someone from local fish farm


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## the_noobinator

that is so awesome!


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## titan501x

simply amazing! thats a nicer viv(would you even call it that?) than i've seen in some zoos!


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## Laxman

wow i really like the look of that water area it is super nice


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## ProjectReptile

Wow medicineman! Send your crew over my way when you're done. Let's see what we can do with a four room apartment!


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## Guest

Hi, any new updates?


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## frogsoftheworld

i didnt read all of this but man is that huge and very nice job.  thanks for posting it but what are you going to put in it. :!:   thanks     very very very cooooooooooool


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## medicineman

Sorry for the lack of updates. Some plants do grow slowly while some grow fast.

I havent been able to add in more terrestrial plants, so lets see the update on the aquatic ones for now.

Pics taken from almost 2 months ago.

Here you can see how bright can it be when sunlight stike at the correct angle. It does not last for long though, but sufficient to supplement some extra growth to the plants. Too long and it also would not be good that it induce algae problems.










And you can see plants taking off









echinodorus rubin "narrow"









echinodorus barthii









assorted plants forming a thick bush


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## Guest

Wow!! The aquarium itself is amazing enough to keep me interested!!! Very nice work!!!


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## zaroba

looking great so far.

i can't wait to see how it looks a year or two from now with everything nicely grown in.


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## medicineman

Here you can see forest of crypt wendtii green. These kind grow quite big. Growth has been strong ever since they were planted less than 2 months ago.









And here you can find Hygrophila agustifolia with flamboyant, green, long leaves that sways to the current. This plant has been growing strong as well, now reaching water surface.









So far so good, the only problem I came across is just some pesky BBA, a small price to pay when harnessing sunlight and nutrient combo (not to mention that large outgassing of CO2 from the waterfall).
I could use some excel and increase micro bubbles a bit and see what will happen.


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## dustin_grey

Ohhhh yeah, that's the stuff. Getting my fix.


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## Guest

Gorgeous Crypt growth!!!!!!
Try this link for a source of aquatic plants. I got a large shipment of Crypts and Lagenandra from them in the Summer. Very good quality.
http://www.aquaspotworld.com/index.php? ... e0ccabbee5


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## medicineman

Well, crypts are nice versatile plant. You can also grow them emmersed easily in a vivarium/shallow paludarium and get them to flower.

Lets fast forward a month or so.

A setback was found around two months ago as water level keeps receding each day. A leak of around 20-30 gallon per day is obvious and fresh water is added daily to compensate the loss. I never intend to do continous water change, but what can I say that now I'm forced to do such. It is a bit wasteful and I prefer not to do it. But fixing and looking for the leak would mean the garden needs to be torn down, and I'm not ready to do such thing at such early stage. Next year perhaps, and only if the leak gets worse.

Growth has been fairly well so far to the terrestrial as well as aquatic plant.










The pothos haired down with wild effect and plants grow bigger. Some branches started to climb up though most are keen to hang low. A bit explosive increase in plant mass, and a mist of occasional WG-Macro+ to terrestrial plants appeared to be beneficial now.


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## jpstod

Are you possitive its an actual leak?

Depending on the Temperature, the flow rate of the waterfall could account for excessive evaporation.

In watergardens that have fast steams and waterfalls, the water evaporates faster than those that have underwater or slower water movement.

I would hate to see you break everything down and no be able to find a leak that never exsisted.


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## Obliv79

Simply amazing!!! I hope you put greenboard drywall up around the exterior of the viv itself. That kind of humidity will cause all kinds of problems with regular drywall from molding to eventually bowing and crumbling. Still excellent craftsmanship I hope to one day have something as extravagant as what you've done.


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## medicineman

@jpstod,

Pretty sure it is a small hairline crack/leak.

I have already did a series of testings by the help of a series of valves.
1. Turned the waterfall off.
2. Turned the tank return line off but waterfall on.
3. Turned the tank return line on but the waterfall off.
4. Turned the main pump off and seal the valves.

In the end of each test I still get reduced water level at the main tank, but not the filter chambers. It must be a tiny crack, or perhaps a series of hairlines (which by experience sometimes gets self clogged, reducing the leak rate significantly).

@obliv79,

The material is no ordinary one. Made from plaster mix of concrete with the correct amount of earth, aggregate and sand. It is known no so quick to crumble down, at least for several decades.
A layer of waterproof concrete wall on the very base was added. The house is all brick and plaster, I think it should be safe.


A close up on the pond section.
Already some lotus formed aerial leaves. I havent got the urge to jump in and do trimming yet to those assorted hygros.


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## jpstod

Maybe it will seal itself..

It would be terrible to tear it apart after it has grown in so much.


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## housevibe7

Wow, it was impressive to start... but starting to grow in, That AMAZING! :shock:


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## zachattack

are there any herps in there. i noticed there is no real barrier along the wall so i assume it is just the fish as for as fauna. It is an incredible zoo quality piece, i hope to one day do instalations in homes very similar to this.


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## medicineman

jpstod,
I sure hope so. A leaky pond in my experience can sometimes seal itself to certain extend. This goes true to our old swimming pool which suddenly started to leak a bit, but misteriously fixed itself :roll: 
If I'm eventually to rip apart the pond for a fix, it will definately done at much later time.

housevibe7,
The growth amazes me as well. Used to look a bit bald, but the growth rate is something I do not expect as quick. Could use additional plants on the cliff though.

zachattack,
Yes, you are right about no barrier, so I cannot keep any herp safely.
However I do have a wild house gecko making the garden its home :lol: 

Back to garden,

That orchid has not flowered yet, need to learn how to induce flowering on them and get more to cheer up the still bald cliff.

This kind of plant (philodendron scandens) can even go under water, but not as aquatic plant. You can see below that already a branch long enough reached water surface and start to grow along water line. More of these will be seen in the future for the plant will learn that the pond is nutritious.










Here you can find tiny hygro poliserma budding out of water. They appear not so good, perhaps due to lack of nutrition (no substrate) grown with just water and any dissolved fert. Or perhaps they remain that size because of humidity factor, any bigger and they may dry up.


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## medicineman

More of the views





























Happy holidays.
Enjoy!


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## a hill

Tank looks great didn't know you planted it already!

-Andrew


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## medicineman

@Andrew,
Well, it would require me to jump in soon enough for trimming :lol: 
Those weedy plants are growing fast and big, overshadowing slower growing plants.

One of the Bromelia. Not so reddish anymore due to the swing in sun ray following season. It has not received as many sunlight as before. A plantlet is growing out of the mother plant.










The ferns are growing strong as well. Leaves are long and wavy as shown at one of the variety here (I have no idea exactly of the species).


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## dragonfrog

Great setup.
What are the chances of a person getting into the next photo so that we can get an idea of the size?


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## HappyHippos1

Check out page for and you'll see some guys working on the construction. Final product is great looking!


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## medicineman

Update on the leak

Since the leak is ever worrying every day as the water lost exceed 20 gallon per half day. It is necessary to refill twice a day to avoid water level being too low and damage the main pump.

The team worked on the project was summoned back to do a review and give their best bet to where the point of leak might be.

A suspect spot was pointed out, which is the overflow section from the pond into the filter box. 

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/IMG_0227.jpg

This overflow path was enlarged by one of the workers doing finishing job because the flow was not large enough to serve the system. Unknowing of the initial construction, he had chiseled out a section and uncovering a layer which is not waterproof, exposing partially of the brickwork. This potential problem was not recognised earlier on due to the similarity in colour and texture of brick to the finishing. 

Hence a fix-work was done. The main pump was pulled off and water level reduced by several inches. To compensate, a submersible pump serving as water current and a trickle DIY filter using a bucket was added.
A layer of waterproofing and additional cement cover applied to the wound, and hopefully after it dries up resulting in better rate of water loss. 

Likely there will be large loss still at least due to large waterfall system, but not as bad.

Several days later the leak was drastically reduced and indeed the chipping of layer is the main cause.

Next best thing I can publish for now is a simple, short, low resolution video using a phonecam to give you a live condition of the setup.

Here you can see central shots showing critters of the pond.

Enjoy! 

http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/?action=view&current=28022008010.flv

http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/medicine2/?action=view&current=28022008009.flv


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## Turtlestork

Are you using any fertilizer? Those pothos are so big and I love the whole idea. I wish it could be enclosed as to keep some cool herps in there. Have you ever thought of maybe doing some research and finding some non-straying animals? I know some species of salamander stray very little. If anything, you could possibly just add some insects and bugs like milipedes or praying mantids as they tend to stay in certain areas. 

TS


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## medicineman

Hi.

I'm using my own brew of fertiliser for both the terrestrial and aquatic plants.
Those with pots I add fetiliser tabs, and those with no pot are given diluted liquid fertiliser.

The only herp I can find inside was a frog, have no idea what specific kind. It hide at the inside base of a pot when I did a re-potting. Seems to be shocked when I pulled the plant and substrate out, half asleep. It must have hitchhiked on the pot from outside of the house long ago.

Some time later and after a little bit of trimming

Overall look










I called in for a welder-craftsman to help me fix the light hanger, because a single MH light hanged at such so far does not light up the tank well up to the edges, too much concentrated at the center. Now it is raised to around 4-5 feet or so from water surface, giving a more even light coverage. Result could be seen just a week away, plants at the edges responded positively.

It has been some time since the garden is set. Now the pothos has grown vines, dangling the backdrop into the water. Some have actually reached the waterworks, submerged and climbed back up the waterfall.


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## housevibe7

Very nice... keeps getting better and better


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## Vassago

Thanks for posting updates on this again. I check the thread every week to see if there have been any new changes. It's looking beautiful.


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## AaronAcker

Any chance you could pot some pics of the fish you have in there?


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## arielelf

Holy Crap!!!! That is really amazing!!! More Broms!!!! I wish I had the money and space, I want one!!!


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## medicineman

@Aaron,
Will try to take some decent pictures of fish, though it would probably difficult due to the nature of the setup. May need to build a light box first.


More pics :


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## reptile_guy5

very, very nice!


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## medicineman

Latest full overall pic










It has been some time and things have changed. One thing missing is sunlight. As the season change, so does the angle of which sunlight hits (yes, this does happen as well on tropical Indonesia). No more straight sunlight hitting the pond section directly for the last several months. It does bring some harm to plants (esp the ones demanding stronger light), problems related to lacking of light. 

My artificial lighting system does help and prevent things from crashing completely, though it can never replace the dimming, natural light. 
How I wish I have bought something stronger to light up this tank at the times like now :icon_roll 

On the overall, they look great and the system is running stable. I managed to keep it running relatively free of algae (frankly, I have a bit of stubborn BBA, but they are much under control and hard to spot).

On the canopy section, a part of the photos hanging down are going a little bit bald. I suspect it needs a major supplement/overhaul at the pot substrate. Or perhaps it just abandon the more poorly nourished area and prefer to grow more near the nutrient stable water edge (look at how they colonize waterfall and the pond edges).


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## Mywebbedtoes

Wow :shock: :shock:


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## medicineman

Underwater pics showing critters

It is feeding time.
Some of the fish begging for food










A quick count of fauna up to date:
- 4 Angels
- 4 Bala shark
- 4 Puntius denisonii
- 100s of Rummy nose tetra
- 2 Puntius johorensis
- 3 Clown loach
- 2 SAE
- 5 CAE
- several wild rasboras (unidentified sp)
- A dozen of nerite snails
- A runaway red platy (I swear it was a baby fish hitchhiker) 


It has been sometime since some of the fish were introduced into the setup and they have grown quite much. I'm giving the credit to ample living space and plenty of circulation.










What's surprising is how fast can bala shark grow in just less than a year, considering they started as much smaller fish, even smaller than a big SAE. For size comparison : Full sized SAE, young adult Puntius, adult platy and full sized rummy nose. You can see how dwarfed the others become when coming face to face. Used to have 10 of them, 2 jumped out and die (such accident is expected to happen when you have such uncovered setup filled with good jumpers), 4 was successfully caught and re-homed to a koi pond.


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## divingne1

Your rummy noses are beautiful. Next to the under-rated male cherry barbs, those are my favorite little fish. I want to put some rummy noses in my FW discus tank but they never look good when I go to buy them.
Candy


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## tkromer

Rummy nose color up nicely after they get in better water. As long as they're not sick at the pet store don't worry, they will color up within a week in a well-cared for tank


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## divingne1

tkromer said:


> Rummy nose color up nicely after they get in better water. As long as they're not sick at the pet store don't worry, they will color up within a week in a well-cared for tank


That is great to know. Looks like I will be getting some rummies after my Hawaii trip in a week.
Candy


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## medicineman

The trick to buying rummy nose is to get the best, healthiest batch as you can find. Then make sure your system is well cycled before you mass-add any. This fish is notorious to die in mass after hours/days into a new tank, sometimes due to ich. 

Some fish shops know what they are doing and you should be able to find some batch that are red. Better to avoid the dull ones as it is usually a sign of deep stress.


More of the underwater views... Enjoy!



















Some of the echinodorus :

Echinodorus barthii, acquired as plantlet








This is a huge species of echinodorus, as shown here. The leaves alone are bigger than your palms.

It is somewhat damaged (and several other plants the same) by the activity of this fish, said to be striped barb from Sumatera. I got this one from a friend who swear he caught it from a stream while he was back at his hometown at Jambi, Sumatera.









Echinodorus rubin, also acquired as emmersed plantlet. Brought this one as a gift from a friend in Singapore.








Yet another echinodorus giant growing dozens of leaves. It could have grown better under stronger lighting.

Echinodorus marble queen. I started off with a motherplant. Soon it pops 2 plantlets and here they are now.









The setup pretty much fill itself up without me adding more plants (see how bare it was initially).


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## tkromer

Wonderful plants. I have some echinodorus that are approaching 18" tall and spread over a foot wide but have yet to give me any plantlets... Too bad you're so far away or you could thin out your tank and send me the leftovers


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## zachxbass

i'm almost speachless... read through the whole thread, and i still find myself wanting to see more. 
If i only had the money/space....


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## medicineman

Final set of pictures for this session :

From the top view.


















Considerably much fuller than the intial set-up.


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## Chewbacca

more pics please


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## dart_king

wow,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow,,wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am amazed by this setup, can i ask how much you paid for this masterpiece? I can imagen around $10,000!!!! Please post more pictures!!!!!!!!


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## AlexRible

Wow amazing, have you ever thought of keeping Arowana in the pond area?


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## medicineman

@alex,
Have had a good consideration but I must let down the temptation. These pricey dragon fish are great jumpers, not a good match to the open top, almost oveflowing pond.


Anyway,
As the season passed by and month switches,
So does the sun is back to shine!

Earth orbit has switched to the sunny side!
For the next 4-5 months it is going to be more sunshine directly on to the garden. I expect some changes in growth, and probably but hopefully not, algae as well.

A shot for you all


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## AlexRible

Your right they do like to jump, but given enough room they can be kept in a pond like that
YouTube - 1,500 Gallon Amazon Sanctuary Update 4-14


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## medicineman

Just simple update

View from above on how dense the terrestrial plant can be, even without proper misting system (could have been better with one).


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## Julio

wow!! pretty sweet i think you need some chameleons in there too.


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## Bob Fraser

Real sweet & i just happen to have chameleons for sale, should you desire them!!


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## Fishtrem

That is absolutely incredible. Very well done.


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## medicineman

Hmmm.... maybe no lizard yet while the setup is not within a closed area 

Current full shot


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## keekalmatter

I was wondering about that. Are you going to enclose it so you can keep lizards or frogs or whatever you decide?


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## james67

just skimming quickly... i wondered if you had considered bundled fiber optic cable for the lighting??? you can install a skylight and use 12 in bundled fiber optic cables to bring in free natural sunlight that could support quite a bit. this is not usually an option for smaller set ups but for a 14-18 foot tall enclosure it seems like it could be a reasonable option.

james


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## jpstod

Any Updated Pics...been so long since we saw any????


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## chinoanoah

I LOVE THIS (obviously, since I am a member on this board). But more focused accolades: Your rummynose collection must be one of the most fun things to watch school, as my friends 8 rummy's are a blast. Also, I am a huge fan of the Puntius denisonii! Can you post pics of the fish swimming?

Good work, keep it up! You inspire all of us!


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## maverick3x6

"there's always a bigger fish"

I suppose the same applies to vivariums. haha


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## reptileink

While there are not enough words in my vocabulary to say how awesome this project is, I feel cheated.....

I thought you were going to enclose most of this to add reptiles to it as well as fish. This is in no way whining about your creation, becasue this has been a long time dream for me too. 

Also, why no plants higher up?? Are you just waiting?? I think some orchids hot glued to the concrete wall, or some higher climbing plants would really fill in the blank space above what you have planted.

It must be beautiful to sit on your couch and just enjoy some nature. 

I was also wondering if you have any air circulation directed at this creation? I am sure some air along the upper plants would be beneficial too.

I wouldn't worry about lack of sun, as you know in nature, there aren't always sunny months, and plants do just fine...lol

Great inspiring project! Now just gotta convince the wife....


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## AquaParadise2k12

OMG!!!This thread is interesting and the project is so Marvelous!!!


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## evantica

Looks like a great projekt, the best of luck! Have to mention my own tropicalhouse in Sweden... you can visit at: livingstonetropic - 
been going for a couple of month now. Hakan in swe


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## evantica

fantastic, i'm impressed!!!


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## rpmurphey

WOW, did I already say WOW. Absolutely amazing. You are making me rethink what I can due to my house. I have a bedroom that isn't being used (saying hummmm while scratching his chin). keep us posted on the development of the plants on the wall. Thanks for sharing this with everybody.


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## medicineman

Playing around with my new lens... and for a quick update










I took out this echinodorus uruguayensis out of my tank. The plant takes up so much space and would be better in the pond.









If I have the chance, perhaps one day I will make again a setup but looking more to something like this, something combined with outside garden. Living room or dining room next to such view would be very nice.









This setup is taken from Singapore zoo. It is the new proboscis monkey display if you wonder.
Monkey on the dry land, and simple underwater view by the bottom.


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## chinoanoah

very nice. feel free to post more pics, you know we love seeing them!


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## weta

chinoanoah said:


> very nice. feel free to post more pics, you know we love seeing them!


agreed! moar please!


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## MonkeyFrogMan28

that is so freaking sweet. How about a turtle or 2 in there. That would be cool. If you secure all of its sides, you should add leaf geckos or giant Day geckos.Those would be cool to see.


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## maximusdendrob8

This is a stunning and inspiring thread! Great work!


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## maximusdendrob8

Wow, that's incredible work. Great taste.


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## jejton

Wow this is just a beautiful creation you have made there. I havent read through the whole thread yet so am wondering, do you have any parrots? That pond is just begging to have a pair of parrots calling out to complete the illusion of being in a tropical jungle.


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## Morgan Freeman

What a stunning creation, I keep looking over to my little exo and thinking.....maybe one day!


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## vedgardo

Morgan Freeman said:


> What a stunning creation, I keep looking over to my little exo and thinking.....maybe one day!


es simplemente ermoso


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## vivbulider

post more pics


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## Energy

How do you get such good plant growth-underwater. Do you inject C02 and ferts?


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## stevenhman

"medicineman medicineman is offline
Junior Member

* Send Message
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Last Activity: 06-07-2009 03:10 PM"

been a while for him to get on!


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## eddy planer

Energy said:


> How do you get such good plant growth-underwater. Do you inject C02 and ferts?


Hi Energy

Do you notice that in the past posting, medicineman installed a good MH lighting system, new really good improvement filtering cum surface skimmer system to increase good bacteria output and of course ferts/C02 injection as well.

Those are the main factors that really benefit for planted tank.


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## Energy

eddy planer said:


> Hi Energy
> 
> Do you notice that in the past posting, medicineman installed a good MH lighting system, new really good improvement filtering cum surface skimmer system to increase good bacteria output and of course ferts/C02 injection as well.
> 
> Those are the main factors that really benefit for planted tank.


Yep - I was wondering specifically about his Co-2 injection schedule and how much he inputs. I know know with my two waterfalls I really have to use a lot to get a good response. It's just nice to see how others do it.


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## Okapi

wow, I hope we get an update sometime in the future


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## holidayhanson

Finally I found this thread again. I have been searching for it and have been wondering what it must look like now.

Hopefully all is well.

Post some pics if you have the opportunity.

Thank you.


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## stevenhman

Ta-da! 

The 700 gal indoor sunken garden project - Page 34


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