# Holy Sh!t



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Man. I've been using Ward Sciences ff media for a couple years now. The yield is 90 to 95% of what ED's had given me, at a much better price.

At a better price... till now that is.

I've always ordered the 6 bags of 4 liter (that's a case). The last time I ordred it that was $61.

I just re-ordered and it is now $79 frickin' dollars! 

That's a 30% price increase (that too effect in January). Unbelievable.

I make 30 ff cultures a week so I've never seriously thought about making my own.

That changes effective immediately. I ordered enough media to see me through, but my assignment for the forseeable future is to find a good media recipe and do my own thing cause there is just no way it should cost that much!

The main ingredient is POTATO FLAKES and the price goes up 30% ?!? 

*WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?* :?: 

Scott
Sanford, Maine

PS: Thanks for the "Edit" Guys... :?


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## TonyT (Feb 16, 2004)

Scott,
Here is the reciepe that I have been using for about 2 years now and it works great for me. 6 cups of potaoe flakes ($2), 1 cup of powdered sugar ($.75), 1/2 cup of brewers yeast ($1.75). That is the dry mix for a total of approximately $4.5 to $5 or so. Then I use 2/3 water to 1/3 distilled white vinegar. Mix the 2 together to the consistancy you want, sprinkle a LITTLE bakers yeast on top and the flies will do the rest. Any questions and I will be glad to help if I can.

TonyT


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Hey Tony... that closely resembles what Wards does (I'll bet).

Thanks.

s


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

I use almost the same thing as Tony except I don't use Brewers yeast, I just use baker's. I actually use methyl paraben (mold inhibitor) but vinegar does basically the same thing. This ends up costing less than $5 per 1 gal bag. Much much cheaper and I have had just as good production as when I used ED's media. Can't beat that!


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## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

I've been using the same formula for several years and get much greater production than with Wards. The biggest difference between it and Wards is Methyl Paraben. I've found that while methyl paraben works great as a mold inhibitor, it also inhibits production (decreased yields). I’ve tried methyl paraben in my homemade media and production was noticeably reduced. So, I’ve opted not to use it anymore and put up with the smell of vinegar and the occasional moldy culture.

Donn


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2004)

khoff said:


> I use almost the same thing as Tony except I don't use Brewers yeast, I just use baker's. I actually use methyl paraben (mold inhibitor) but vinegar does basically the same thing. This ends up costing less than $5 per 1 gal bag. Much much cheaper and I have had just as good production as when I used ED's media. Can't beat that!


Kevin, do you use anything in place of the brewers yeast? Besides bakers yeast? I ask because the brewers yeast supplies vitamins to your ff which in effect feeds your frogs....without it, you are only giving your frogs a crap load of carbs...not a very healthy gut load.

sorry if you were already aware of this,


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2004)

Hi All,
Tony shared that recipe for me and I am on my 2nd batch of it.It has been working great and it is dirt cheap.
Mark W.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

*Bulk Supplies*

Anyone know where to buy Potato Flakes and/or Powdered Sugar in bulk form?

Thanks.

s


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

Talk with you local grocery store. I work at one and when customers order a case of a product often they get a price cut. There is alway CostCo, Sams Club, GFS, and other big named Warehouse companies.
Later and Happy frogging,
Jason Juchems


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

MBMcEwen,
I think that is quite a hasty presumption. Although brewers yeast is usually suggested over bakers when it comes to vitamins, bakers does also produce Vitamin B1, B2, B12, proteins, folic acid, nicotinamide, etc. Not to mention all of these vitamins are also in the vitamin dusting I use. I really don't believe this is causing any vitamin deficciencies. If you have sources stating otherwise, I would actually love to read them.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2004)

khoff said:


> MBMcEwen,
> I think that is quite a hasty presumption. Although brewers yeast is usually suggested over bakers when it comes to vitamins, bakers does also produce Vitamin B1, B2, B12, proteins, folic acid, nicotinamide, etc. Not to mention all of these vitamins are also in the vitamin dusting I use. I really don't believe this is causing any vitamin deficciencies. If you have sources stating otherwise, I would actually love to read them.


I understand this, but I was also assuming that you did not put a full cup of bakers yeast in your cultures. I was under the impression that more than a pinch of active yeast on top would crash a cutlure do to elevated levels of carbon dioxide. Forgive me if I am completely wrong on this.


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

Matt,
Of course you are right by saying that puting a cup of bakers yeast in would kill a culture. All I was addressing was your statement that said if I don't have brewers yeast, the all they get is carbs, which is incorrect. I know brewers yeast would be more effective, but I am not too concerned that my flies get elevated amounts of these B vitamins because my frogs get most of it from the dusting powder anyways. And I probably do use more bakers yeast than you would. I use the equivalent of two good sized pinches. I am still not saying that my way is better without brewers yeast, just saying I think it is sufficient.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

*brewers or bakers :?:*

ok it seems to me that everyone is on the brewers kick. ok so "sell me" what is the advantage of useing the brewers. i was told that the brewers give flys a kick to breed faster. so if you need a culture up quick that is what you use. 
just my opinion.
walt


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2004)

This is all I am saying. I believe that insects needs to be gutloaded before given to frogs....my frogs at the very least. With other herps you can feed the insects a wide variety of foods to insure that your herp will not have any deficiencies....not so with fruit flies. They need sugar....lots of sugar/carbohydrates, whether it comes from powdered sugar, potatoes, molasses, bananas, or whatever.. The brewers yeast supplies a big portion of vitamins that the ff, and in turn your frogs would not get otherwise. I do not believe that dusting alone gives the frogs what they need for two reasons. First, the dust is washed off of most of the flies within minutes. Two, if dusting is all you need, why not eat potato chips all day everyday for the rest of your life....but take a multivitamin everyday also....see how fit you stay

Now, as for my choice of brewers yeast. I don't care if you use brewers yeast or not. I would love to use bakers yeast, but because more than a pinch or two will crash your cultures(and I believe that the frogs need more than a pinch or two), I opt for another solution. Honestly, the only reason I use brewers yeast is it was recommended to me when I first started making cultures. I have also heard of people using other supplements one might find at GNC....it doesnt really matter to me as long as there is something in there other than sugar. 

Sorry for the long post, but I figured I should thoroughly explain myself as I should have done from the start. This is also all in my own humble opinion, which no one asked for to begin with.  I also fully realize that there is more than one way to skin a cat.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2004)

just erasing a double post.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I believe that the shortest reply I could give on why you need to include Brewers Yeast in any ff media - I've never found a "for resale" ff media that *does not* include it.

To me - that speaks of the need to include it.

s


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

I was at a health food/natural grocery store last night looking for spirilina powder, and saw a huge jar of brewer's yeast, more than anyone would ever need for FF cultures.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

"Huge" is relative. You'll note that Tony's original mix (2nd or 3rd post in this thread) uses 1/2 cup at a time.

Unless you're talkinga bout a gallon of the stuff - you'll go through it fast enough.

s



Arklier said:


> I was at a health food/natural grocery store last night looking for spirilina powder, and saw a huge jar of brewer's yeast, more than anyone would ever need for FF cultures.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Yeah, this was about a gallon for around $18.


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## Will (Feb 15, 2004)

Huge definitely is relative, I make 10-12 liters of media a week... but I do work in a Drosophila lab.


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## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

I heard that using too much yeast will cause you to overproduce larvae. I thought this why I am getting huge amounts of larvae and few flies in some of my cultures. I haven't changed anything but my cultures are not doing well at all. I get so many larvae that they eat the coffee filters in my culture and eat all of the medium down before they can even morph out.


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## Will (Feb 15, 2004)

You might want to try limiting your adults to 3 or 4 days of laying in one culture. That way you will avoid having to many larva in one culture, and can rapidly build your stock by continually turning over a given culture.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Has anyone figured out exactly how much homemade cultures cost per culture? I'm looking for a total price, with cups and everything. No re-usable cups, though. I hate scrubbing nasty jars. The cheapest commercial medium I've been able to find is around $0.43, then add around $0.30 for the cups.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

Hi there, please be patient with me since I'm not enlgish 

Ok, I've just do the potato mix:

Potato starch
sugar
baking yeast (blend into the medium)
vinegar
water

Now I've read a lot about the baker VS brewer yest ... now I've just bought some brewer yest and spread a pinch over each culture.

Here is my 2 questions:

1- My brewer yeast is expirated....can it still be good for flies ?
2- Each culture only have brewer yeast on the surface ... can it affect the larva development ?

I hope someone will get some clues....I don't want to loose my colony 

Cheers !


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I was led to think that you sprinkle it on the top, rather than mix it in. Whats better?

Thanks
Ryan


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

Usually what is done is the brewers yeast is mixed in and the bakers yeast is sprinkled on top.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

What's the main point of that ?
What is the uses of brewer and baker yeast ?
Make the medium more nutritive ? produce fermentation ?


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

You could check here for cheap brewer's yeast:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?I217125D7


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## benmz (Feb 18, 2004)

OK, so here is something to try to clear some of this up. The baker's yeast is active, so it will reproduce in the medium. It will provide the nutrients mentioned. I believe it is essential to the medium because it produces alcohol and such wich the larvae need (similar to rotting fruit). The brewers yeast is not active. It just provides lots of nutrition. I know that when I've added it to my medium (was Black Jungle's stuff) it boosted the production many times at least for the first week or so.
So in essence, you don't need to add brewers yeast, but you should/must add baker's yeast. Too much baker's will crash a culture, but once again, the yeast does reproduce so you don't have to add lots of it. Hope this helps

-Ben Zomer


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

thanks ben for your answer.
so it looks like the brewers is not a main thing to put in. i have heard from a few people say that yeast is yeast. 
about scott's reply if its in "for resale" then it must be good. i think the key word is resale. like i said before the brewers just gives the flys a kick start to the culture as in go to flys a few days earlier.yeah i know that is a good thing but if you do your cultures right you won't have to worry about getting flys 2 days earlier. but again nobody has yet sold me on why i must include it. and scott do not take any sort of offense about my comment and i singled you out.
walt


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## Ed Martin (Mar 25, 2004)

Hi, I guess it is time for my first post! When you use the potato flakes, aren’t you getting a lot of smell from the culture? 
I tried a potato flake recipe a year or 2 ago, I was getting great yield but the smell was terrible. I did not use as much sugar as posted, could that have been the reason for the smell? ? I went back to the commercial mixes for a while, then tried substituting semolina and rolled oats for the potatoes and the smell is gone, or at least normal.
Ed


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

just about every commercial media out there starts with potato flakes - i have heard about people using rolled oats though.

s


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I use rolled oats and love em!


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2004)

Just ordered five pounds of quick rolled outs, five pounds of fructose, a couple pounds of brewers yeast, and a couple pounds of powdered bananas (makes it taste better). 

Now where is a good cheap place to order low quality methyl paraben, other than eds? I don't need the lab grade stuff as the flies don't care much.


Joe

By the way if you order your algea off bulkfoods.com you can get it for $1.52 an ounce, much better than paying $10 an ounce to feed a tadpole. Of course you have to buy a ton.


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## devin mac (Oct 4, 2004)

joseph said:


> a couple pounds of powdered bananas (makes it taste better).


to you or the flies? ;-)


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

What about the blue stuff? Is that just coloring? Will food coloring serve the same purpose?

Also, what's the difference between mediums that are labeled specifically for melanogaster and hydei?

If you use rolled oats, do you use the same amount as potato flakes?


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Here is my recipe I use, basically the same as everyone elses, only more brewers yeast

3 cups potato flakes
1 cup brewers yeast
1 cup sugar (powdered or granulated)
5 to 6 cups water/vinegar (50/50 mix)

This makes my cultures last atleast 2 months, with out a lot of smell. I actually have to dump flies out because If i don't they willl just die, and make it stink. That is how many flies this media produces, and it is very cheap. I got 5 pound of brewers yeast for free, and the other items are cheap as well. I highly recommend vinegar as the mold inhibitor. First off, you can't even smell it after the first day, and second off, it is a lot cheaper and easier to get. It also does just as good of a job in my opinion. 

Ed


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2004)

Ive never used home made media,and have a question: How do you prepeare it? Do you just mix all of the ingrediants togather or do you need to boil it etc. ?


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2004)

Mix the dry ingredients and store in an airtight container. When you make cultures add the wet and stir. You can microwave for a few seconds if you'd like, then let cool before adding flies.


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

I add the water when I am preparing it all. THen you can just freeze what you don't use, and use it later. Yes, you do boil the water. It makes the potatoes work better.


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## bjdwa (Nov 26, 2004)

*brewers/bakers yeast*

I'm wondering if anyone out there has tried using both baker's yeast and brewer's yeast when making homemade media? Are there problems or benefits in using both?


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2004)

The brewers yeast is inactive and mixed into the medium as a nutritional material. The bakers yeast is active and will come "alive" in the warm moist sugary medium. Too much bakers yeast will produce too much CO2 and will make the FF's sterile. Usually you only need a few grains of bakers yeast, at the most, added to the top of the medium.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

Man this is a great thread, I thought Id just give it a lil "bump" for others dont have to dig soo deep to read this.  

-Frank


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## digitalflipkick (Sep 13, 2004)

Thanks Frank!


-Jeff


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## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

OK, so this thread has been around a while, but I missed it. Since I'm going through a FF crisis at the moment, from laziness. I thought this thread could use a bump and maybe someone could answer a question I had.

Does Brewer's Yeast Speed up a culture? 

My cultures take 2-3 wks to produce flies. A lot of flies...Ask Corey.
I use our empty juice bottles 64oz. so I only make 4-5 every 3-4 wks. My recipe is Oatmeal, Apple Sauce, Bananas, h2o, and vinegar. I sprinkle Baker's yeast on top.

I recently tried adding powdered sugar but must have added too much Baker's yeast b/c I successfully made ETOH, smelled worse than old Scotch and the flies were lightweights and died. So back to the drawing board!

What can I use to speed up my cultures?
Mike


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## Blort (Feb 5, 2005)

There's a study out there about temperatures and FF hatch and maturation rates. I think 80F is about optimal, but I can't remember.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I agree. I found that making things slightly warmer sped up the cultures considerably.

Mine used to take 3+ wks. I now find them ready just after 2 wks.

I moved my cultures from out in the frogroom - to the "boiler" room at my home (where the furnace is).

s


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Those of you doing the home mix with the vinegar. Have any of you tried Apple Cider Vinegar? Would it work the same? My thinking is that not only would it provide a mold inhibitor, but ACV has TONS of nutrients in it that would benefit the flies/frogs somehow I assume. I know people out there drink it for health benefits, I just give it to my dogs every other day for the same reason.

What about methylene blue for a mold inhibitor? I assume thats whats in the FF's that Petsmart and Petco sell.


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## verbal (Sep 8, 2004)

I've been using apple cider vinegar for the past few years with good, consistent results.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

I have only used apple cider vinegar. Works fine 8)


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