# Tads and amount of space



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

So I have been having success with breeding my darts so much so that I am running out of room for all the pots and looking into making a new Tad rack however I am struggling to find pots in the UK that I would be happy using for saving space and price point before I go into making a 100pot rack I was wondering how much space do the tads need I know a lot of the tads I work with are dropped into broms to grow but I imagine in the wild the broms are a lot larger then the ones we use in our tanks or am I wrong I will be using a drip system so the water quality will not be a problem just wondering if I could use smaller pots ie I use a 210ml pot as of now but would a film canister size pot be too small any thoughts would be appreciated


----------



## bssknox (Apr 24, 2017)

I don't have experience in raising tadpoles in anything smaller than a 32oz deli cup, but I've seen several people raise ranitomeya tadpoles in test tubes.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks its a start however test-tubes come in lots of sizes  however, I have found a rearing system that uses 90ml cups or 3.04oz so that gives me a ballpark to start on 100ml maybe


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Different species have quite different needs. What species are you rearing?


----------



## N. Veen (Aug 26, 2020)

I raise my tadpoles in containers holding roughly 100ml of water.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Different species have quite different needs. What species are you rearing?


currently, I am breeding
Phantasmal darts 
soon hopefully imitator darts 
but I also want to get into oophaga pumilio but not for a while yet


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

N. Veen said:


> I raise my tadpoles in containers holding roughly 100ml of water.


do you have good success with 100ml containers?


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

so after some research, the largest bromeliads can hold 2 gallons of water or 9 litres so I am going to do some tests with different sizes and see what I can come up with


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

I ended up going with 150ml pots could not find what I needed off the shelf so I pulled out my 3d printer and some petg got my tank all glued up and set up still got 31 pots to print but the look good what do you think just waiting till I get some cash so I can get some more almond leaves set up the print so it pauses so I can put in some ss mesh then it glues it in to the pot









Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## azandis (Sep 13, 2020)

That is really impressive!
What kind of plastic is in your printer? I know that a lot of plastics leach endocrine disrupters that can effect tadpole development.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

It's natural petg same stuff that's in drink bottles food safe I have used it before in aquariums and in vivariums lots just avoid certain colours and it's all good 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## azandis (Sep 13, 2020)

You are probably right, but food-safe just means that the residual leachates aren't high enough concentration to affect >100 lbs mammals through occasional ingestion. That's a bit different from a water permeable tadpole living in leachates.

PETG produces a fair amount of endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs), especially when stressed with light [1] or extruded in printing.

EDCs, even in low dosage, can alter tadpole development in metamorphosis [2] and lead to sex-reversal [3].

So, you are probably fine, but keep it in mind if you end up with a female-biased sex ratio in your offspring.

References:
[1] Yang, C. Z., Yaniger, S. I., Jordan, V. C., Klein, D. J., & Bittner, G. D. (2011). Most plastic products release estrogenic chemicals: a potential health problem that can be solved. Environmental Health Perspectives, 119(7), 989–996.

[2] Thambirajah, A. A., Koide, E. M., Imbery, J. J., & Helbing, C. C. (2019). Contaminant and Environmental Influences on Thyroid Hormone Action in Amphibian Metamorphosis. Frontiers in Endocrinology, 10, 276.

[3] Orton, F., & Tyler, C. R. (2015). Do hormone-modulating chemicals impact on reproduction and development of wild amphibians?: Endocrine disruption in amphibians. Biological Reviews, 90(4), 1100–1117.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Ok that's all good you had me worried until I read more it would be just as silly for me to put them in the standard pots everyone uses made from pp or hdpe or any for that matter by the looks of it so ime not concerned I always keep an eye on my tads monitoring checking there development and do regular water changes with Ro water through a 4th stage 0ppm and remineralise to get it just right also do water tests regularly to make sure it's all good but I will keep an eye on a bias to females thanks for the articles I will get to reading all 3 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

If I do have an issue I will have a lot of glass tanks to make lol

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## azandis (Sep 13, 2020)

scrumpydc said:


> Ok that's all good you had me worried until I read more it would be just as silly for me to put them in the standard pots everyone uses made from pp or hdpe


Ha! Yeah, I should have clarified before I alarmed anyone!


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Ha love your pics btw on your research page did you take them with a microscope and do you have a lab? 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Great 3d printing project!


----------



## azandis (Sep 13, 2020)

Thanks! And I'm super impressed with your viv engineering projects!

Those photos were taken with a DSLR mounted on a dissecting microscope. I am part of a lab at the university, although, haven't been able to access it much recently due to the pandemic


----------



## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Ever consider setting these up as a drip system? So rather than water theoretically draining from the bases, there is a slow stream (drip) of water going in and then causing the cups to overflow to prevent stagnation?


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Tihsho said:


> Ever consider setting these up as a drip system? So rather than water theoretically draining from the bases, there is a slow stream (drip) of water going in and then causing the cups to overflow to prevent stagnation?


I had done a drip system overflow before I believe I did a post on it but I found tadpole growth to be subpar so I switched to this there is heavy water movement under the pots that go through a filter so it should not stagnate it's just a test at this stage if I have to redesign the system I will just want to get strong healthy tads I may also lift then lower the pots when I feed thus pushing water around the pots but looking at it so far there seems to be good water movement with out being to much for the tads so they can rest I will keep an eye on it and report on progress of the tank as and when 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Great info! I'll have to dig around for your drip system. I have something setup for fish fry that I was hoping to duplicate and modify for Auratus tads, I'd like to read up more on what you were seeing growth wise. Figure in the wild most pools/puddles the tads grow up in are fairly stagnant and the only real flow they receive is during rainfall.


----------

