# Tinc Morph? and Sex if possible



## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

Darts pictures by legacy_049 - Photobucket


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm not an expert, but, those frogs look like hybrids to me. Maybe Azureus x Cobalt? If you are considering buying them, I would not unless someone more experienced here can vouch for their authenticity.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

is this your frog? who did you purchase it from? looks to be a true sip, but the pics are not very clear so its hard to tell.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Agreed but wouldn't jump to conclusion so quick, ask the seller about them...what did they sell them as? Or selling them as? I do think they look like a cross though...azureus,oyapok?... or azureus an blue sip? Pics are not clear enough for me to determine sex but picture 3-8 frog thats not on the hut looks to be male...Can't really tell on the other one. Are the frogs crests really that white? Or is the the flash causing that? Some of the pictures don't look like the crest is bright white...so they may just be azureus, or blue sip

Julio, don't true sips have a yellow crest though?


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

I got them from a local fish store. The owner is a very experienced(25 years)(trust him enough to not sell me something bad) and now breeds darts as a recreation. He has adults for sale, and they have a yellow, creamy crest along the snout, so I was leaning towards a true sip. These are about 7 1/2 months, so we can truly see once they age more.

I will be sure to ask him tho.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Hope you'll post more pics as they grow.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

True Sips are pretty rare for tincs in the hobby, how much did u get these guys for if u dont mind me asking. You may have gotten away with a steal here


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

I'm going to bet on them not being True Sips. The last ones Sean Stewart had sold almost instantly at $250 each for froglets, they're not the kind of frog you will find at a random fish store.


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## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

bamaboy said:


> The owner is a very experienced(25 years)(trust him enough to not sell me something bad) and now breeds darts as a recreation.


Anyone with that much experience should have told you what morph they are. Something tells me he is less experienced with darts than you may think.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Agreed I would remotely consider that they would be True Sips. they are almost non existent in the hobby. Not something that would be for sale to the public. They arent even typically offered on public forums.

To be honest I couldnt even make out the pictures well enough.
They kinda looked identical to Azureus just looked like the flash made the crest look kinda whitish yellow
Todd


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

I got them $75 each and told me his was taking a loss. I am a frequent customer there and a potential part time employee. He has told me stories of when histrionicus were common and selling frogs help pay himself threw collage. I will stop by the the store Tuesday and get a morph confirmation from him and see if I can't get a breeding pair going, as I am pretty confident they are both males. I will also upload some better pictures. 

Thank you for so much input, I will find out Tuesday. That would be quite awarding if they are true sips.


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

His frogs are usually not for sale and more of a display feature for other customers. I became interested and set up a terrarium, flies, and read alot of information. He was searching threw some of his suppliers for some lecus as they were my first choice, after 5 weeks I became inpatient and asked if we would be willing to sell some of his tincs. He said why not, I threw him $75 each and accepted.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

> I will stop by the the store Tuesday and get a morph confirmation from him and see if I can't get a breeding pair going, as I am pretty confident they are both males.



If you don't know what they are 100% [or they are hybrids]...



DO NOT BREED THEM!!!


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

bamaboy said:


> I got them $75 each and told me his was taking a loss.


He bred them himself but selling them for $75 is taking a loss? Sounds like he played you.


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## jeosbo01 (Mar 1, 2004)

Tony said:


> He bred them himself but selling them for $75 is taking a loss? Sounds like he played you.


Sounds about right to me


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

New Photos are up and on the same link I posted. We will just have to see tomorrow. I know it sounds like he may have "played me," but out of my 10 years of going there. I have never received anything bad from him, he is honest and he would have no reason to lie to me, about them being True Sip. My mistake on not asking what morph they were.(I can also ensure everyone that he is very experienced.

I won't breed anything till I know what they are. Everyone has my word. 

They are also very healthy, bold, and active frogs. Good eaters.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Hmm, they look way too much like young Azureus in these photos, maybe about2-3 months old? Right around an inch in length right?
Around this time they still have a paler crest often hinted with a light tinge of green.
If this is the case these frogs typically sell for less than $50.

Todd


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

Tip of the snout to butt. 1.25"


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

They look close to sexual maturity to me...based on the size in comparison to the coco hut, and also the toe pads

My guess is 7-8 month old males


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

bamaboy, I really appreciate your good attitude and willingness to talk to us about this. I hope you'll keep us posted.


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

I just got back from the fish store, asked and he wiped out his record book and said they were cobalts. I looked in his tank and saw some adults in the tank and I would have put my life on them being true sips, but they were also cobalts. I wish I took some pics but didn't bring a camera.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

if thats the case they look like no cobalts ive ever seen


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

I really need a picture of the adult he had in his tank, like I said, I would have put my life on them being true sips.

Are there any other ways for me to "Prove" what morph they are?

Maybe a suriname cobalt, but from all the pictures I have seen, the black spots seem to be much more bigger and less fine spotted.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Here is a picture I recently took of a cobalt.

I hate to say it, but, I think this guy doesn't know what it is and didn't breed it. Or, he does know what it is because he bred it and it is a cross. Just my opinion, I am not an expert.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

What I would do is print out a photo of a Cobalt and take it to him and tell him you would like your money back since these are clearly not Cobalts (in my noobish opinion). Unless they can be positively identified (and I'm thinking they can't) you shouldn't breed them. 

I know you said you may end up working for him so that messes things up a bit. 

Here are some clearer shots of one of the Cobalts I'm taking care of. Feel free to use one of these if you wish:

















Sorry I'm not a good photographer, lol.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

In my opinion they are not Cobalts.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm starting to think they are just Azureus with very light crests...

maybe New river?

the new river has the very dark black lines that run up the side, and urs dont, they look more like azureus, new river cross maybe?? Id say 100 percent not True Sip, and 100 percent not any type of cobalt


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## DF20 (Jul 7, 2007)

boabab95 said:


> If you don't know what they are 100% [or they are hybrids]...
> 
> 
> 
> DO NOT BREED THEM!!!


Breed them if you want, they are your frogs, no one should tell you what to do with YOUR frogs you paid money for. You didn't ask anyone whether you should breed them or not. You just wanted to know what kind of tinc and the sex if possible. Dendroboard hybridphobia propaganda at its best.


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## bamaboy (May 29, 2011)

He did not breed these frogs and I think it was a misconception that developed, and probably was a supplier "identification fail." I will continue my search in trying to get a "proven morph."

I also thought that it may have been a New River, but as strange as it may seem and unlikely, the True Sip idea still lingers in my mind, as the frog that was in his tank was quite persuading.(not implying that it was my frogs parents)

I will also have to see how they turn out over time.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

DF20 said:


> Breed them if you want, they are your frogs, no one should tell you what to do with YOUR frogs you paid money for. You didn't ask anyone whether you should breed them or not. You just wanted to know what kind of tinc and the sex if possible. Dendroboard hybridphobia propaganda at its best.


ok, lemme rephrase it...


dont sell the offspring if these unknown tincs...


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Seriously drop the True Sip idea. They are barely available in this hobby. Absolutely no breeder would see them to a pet shop.

4 True Sips were sold a few months ago. they went for $250 each froglet! In addition to that information, I believe at this point there might be a total of just over a dozen in the entire country. 

To me Id rule out New River. My view on New River vs Azureus is as follows:
Azureus = Blue tinc with black speckles/spots
New River = black tinc with blue web.(More like the blue is laid over the black)


I can guarantee u 100% those are not Cobalts.

I still lean towards baby Azureus. Your size does put them around 5-6 months. As far as Ive noticed in the past theyve usually lost that pale greenish crest by then.

Seriously since you dont know what they are, please dont sell any potential offspring, please dont give the potential offspring away. I sure as Hell dont want any of that unknown blood mixing in with my tincs down the road.

Todd


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