# leaf litter



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

i just collected a big grocery bag full of leaves from a park about a week ago. i want to put them in with my frogs but do i need to boil them. i just got all my stuff checked for parasites and am quarentining them and treating them now. they will be clean once i put them in the tank with leaves, so i don't want to risk the leaves having anything bad on them. 

so my questions are- do i need to boil them?
will boiling them kill anything potentially harmful?
will boiling them destroy the leaves?
how do i know when they are done boiling/how long to boil them for?

thanx in advance, have a nice day!


----------



## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Hi Otis,

I think that you will find that you will have fewer critters introduced into the viv if you boil or bake your leaves. While many of these will be useful additions to the microfauna of the viv, it is possible to get spiders, slugs, snails and centipedes that can prove to be quite problematic.

What I do with leaf litter is to make sure that the leaves are first very dry. Then I will bake them at 350 degrees for 30 minutes followed by letting them cool and soaking in water to wash off debris and rehydrate them. This won't kill absolutely every organism since some require both heat and pressure (such as would be supplied by an autoclave) to eliminate them but it works pretty well.

What I have heard about boiling leaves is that it tends to cause them to break down much faster. With baking I have not seen a similar issue.

Good luck.

Bill


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

i have lots of microstuff in all my tanks, not looking for any more. baking them...never thought of that. i did a "test" round with boiling them but i think i will bake them next time. i will put both leaves in and see which breaks down faster, you're probably right.
do i have to worry about parasites being on them? or will they die when i bake them/dry them out for a while? thanks so much for the reply!


----------



## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Most parasites will be destroyed by baking...there are a few organisms that are surprisingly resistant to heat alone...this is where heat plus pressure, i.e. superheated steam destroys them. But for our purposes, high heat for a long enough period is adequate.

The key is to start with dry leaves though. Otherwise they won't be exposed to high enough temperatures during the baking (the water content in the leaves will absorb the energy and evaporate).

Bill


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Hey Otis,
I wouldn`t use leaves from the ground. Maple and walnut don`t seem to do well in vivs. Some oaks have pretty soft leaves. 
If you`d like you can stop out and i can pick an oak branch to dry in the sun. The scarlet oaks around here have pretty tough leaves. I`ve been using them in my vivs and the springs and woodlice love them and they don`t break down very quickly or mold as easily. If you get a branch w/ live leaves you shouldn`t have to worry as much about parasites. I`ve been using this stuff pretty much exclusively from around here and just drying it out. It makes a pretty good tadpole tea if you boil it too.
You are local to buffalo, correct?
Aaron


----------



## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

On the topic of leaves, ....... I read on another thread around here that some folks on here do not boil or bakes their leaves. In fact, this individual kind of promoted the use of leaves collected locally and put directly in because it could potentially bring along its own microfauna to add to your viv.

Questions 1): 
Aaron, do you boil or bake your leaves down or do you place them directly in your vivs after collecting/drying?

Questions 2):
Do you think we (PDF Keepers) go overboard on this "Sterilization" thing with our driftwood, plants, leaves, etc....
I think it's important to use "good" judgement when/where to collect your stuff.

To be honest with you, I do, and have all along, bake and boil for "Sterilization", buy I half wonder if it's "always" really necessary?????

Hmmmmm????


----------



## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Lon,

I do the same plus one more step with my leaves - boil, microwave, then bake. I have both oak (live oak I think) and magnolia.

You would think this would kill just about anything attached to the leaves, but in several instances I have ended up with mites or millipedes in my vivs. The mites actually destroyed very healthy springtail colonies in several vivs. and I have been unsuccessful at trying to seed the tanks again.

I am beginning to wonder if the "sterilization" is worth the effort since it doesn't seem to be helping much.

Steven


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

i baked them and found that some did better than others. the magnolia got all crinkly and small, the maple did OK, and the oak did the best. they didn't shrink like the magnolia and their color stayed almost the same. it got a little "bronzer" but not too bad. 

aaron-im close to buffalo-rochester, but im going to the depew show to get mossies  if the scarlet leaves have been working for you im sure they would be more than adequate. tad tea, sweetness. i will have tadpoles someday...always good to be prepared. 

thanks for the reply's everyone! have a nice day


----------

