# Stomach Eversion



## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

Has anyone ever seen stomach inversion in a frog, or any type of amphibian for that matter?


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

That is what I thought.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Jer said:


> That is what I thought.


Did you look in the Emergency supportive care thread? 


care-sheets/topic22383.html 

I think not. 

It is typically not a good omen for longevity in the frog. 

Ed


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

No I did not check out the emergency supportive care page, I didn't even know there was one, but someone sent me a link to a video of a bullfrog that did the exact same thing my frog did. My frog is a chorus frog (_Pseudacris maculata)_ that appeared to be having difficulty shedding, and then all of a sudden it spit up its stomach, used its front legs to push the shed out of its mouth, as well as the full belly full of fruit flies I fed it earlier in the day. Then it sucked its stomach back inside and it is perfectly fine again. I have heard of this in sharks, but never in amphibians. Also, I searched and searched for documented cases of this, or scientific papers only to find absolutely nothing.


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

Ed said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/care-sheets/topic22383.html
> Ed


That link was very not helpful, but I appreciate the help. I would like to see some links with _information_ about stomach inversion in amphibians, not a link about sick frogs that shows only one picture of a half dead frog with its stomach hanging out.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

Stomach eversion is symptomatic of an underlying condition i.e bacterial septicemia. Anything else unusual about this particular frog behaviorally that may suggest any issue? I've also witnessed regurgitation in caudates that are experiencing heat stress, but never stomach eversion.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

Why even post a question your never happy with what any one says to you..
Brian


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

flyangler18 said:


> Stomach eversion is symptomatic of an underlying condition i.e bacterial septicemia. Anything else unusual about this particular frog behaviorally that may suggest any issue? I've also witnessed regurgitation in caudates that are experiencing heat stress, but never stomach eversion.


Behaviourally it is a male, very healthy, it eats like a pig and it is dominant toward the others. This all happened while it was soaking in its freshly filled water bowl. The stomach appeared to be healthy, it wasn't red or swollen or anything, and I have dissected these frogs before.

This is one of my "test" frogs that I cycle, ie. cool them down over the winter in the hopes that it will induce mating once a spring simulation has been supplied. But, it has been at room temperature for 3 months now, so this is not a reason for stomach eversion. Like I said, it appeared to have problems shedding, it looked like it was in distress, and I believe this is the reason for spitting up its stomach.

Is it correctly termed stomach eversion or stomach inversion, or are both perfectly acceptable?


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

Brian Ferriera said:


> Why even post a question your never happy with what any one says to you..
> Brian


Why do you even post?


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

Oh yeah, here is the link to the video that someone sent me via PM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRb4szarJhk

Note that this frog does pretty much the exact same thing that my frog did, but imagine my frog only being the size of a quarter, and my frog doing all of this in no more than 5 seconds.

Firstly, it is sitting in a little bit of water, just like my frog was. Secondly, it spits up its stomach. Are there any *discrepencies* as to that being its stomach? Third, it appears to spit up a freshly shed skin, just like mine. Fourth, notice the classic way in which it "cleans" its stomach with its front legs to push away whatever it was that induced it to stomach evert.

Rather interesting to watch, especially right in front of your eyes.


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

This is for Rich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6Yu9X3 ... re=related


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Jer said:


> This is for Rich.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6Yu9X3 ... re=related


Completely childish and uncalled for. 
Candy


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

First off... the picture of the A. zeteki was not a picture of a quote "half dead frog" endquote. 

There are multiple possible causes for stomach eversions. All indicate some underlying problem with either the frog, the husbandry of the frog or both. 

Some possible reasons 
1) poisioning
2) infection (bacterial, viral or protozoal)
3) gastric impaction (or feeding to the point of gastric overload)
4) stress
5) parasite load


as for links here is one that will provide a lot of help if you bother to take advantage of it... 
http://www.amazon.com/Amphibian-Medicin ... 822&sr=8-1 

I suggest purchasing the book referenced above as it will provide you with a lot of valuable information without having other people do your research to provide you with information. 

Ed


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

divingne1 said:


> Jer said:
> 
> 
> > This is for Rich.
> ...


Agreed, I just couldn't resist.

Pull my finger.


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

I have read though that book several times over the years. As soon as I can walk again I will goto the library and sign it out.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

To which library do you refer? It seems a little esoteric for a public library book.. 

Ed


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

:roll:


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Jer said:


> divingne1 said:
> 
> 
> > Jer said:
> ...


Care to tell me why you bring me into yet another of your threads when you have marked me as a "FOE" and did not want me to post in any of "your" threads?
You are going to go far in this hobby Jer.
My suggestion is to take Ed's advise. And not only read "though" the book but actually try to digest the information. That and find a good vet. You seem to need one before even getting your first Dart.
:idea: Oh, and purchase a hot water heater and some soap to help out with the bacteria phobia. :idea:


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> I suggest purchasing the book referenced above as it will provide you with a lot of valuable information without having other people do your research to provide you with information.


I agree- this is an invaluable text, and I refer to mine often.

Jason


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

Ed said:


> To which library do you refer? It seems a little esoteric for a public library book..
> 
> Ed


I know in Canada the University of Calgary has a copy. It would seem likely that most university libraries would also have a copy. Any Canadian would have access to this via an interlibrary loan from any public library. As far as the States goes, I have no idea. I don't go there.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Jer said:


> Ed said:
> 
> 
> > To which library do you refer? It seems a little esoteric for a public library book..
> ...



Well according to the Canadian National Recipricol Borrowing Agreement and the University of Calgary rules, it is not available to any Canadian. It would only be available to undergraduate, graduate, faculty from other institutions. It is not sent out on regular interlibrary loan to public libraries (at least according to http://library.ucalgary.ca/services/use ... /index.php? or http://www.coppul.ca/rb/rbindex.html). 

I thought you had read through it several times over the years (oddly enough it isn't that old a book (2001) publication yet it isn't available for loan through regular public libraries. 

There seems to be some discrepancy here. 

Ed


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

I believe I signed it out once in about 2003, and once in about 2005. If you really really would like, I could supply you with some phone numbers for local Canadian public libraries, you can call them and supply them with the book ISBN number and inquire as to whether or not you could sign it out as part of an interlibrary loan. That is how I got my hands on it, with nothing other than a public library card that cost me $5.

Edit: I looked at those links, and they are university links. Maybe try searching a public library database if you can do that without actually being in the library. You don't live in Canada so why are you so interested in this book?


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Apple Martini Ed? Rich?
Candy


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It is not listed in any of the public libraries and is only found in 4 libraries in Canada.. (try searching http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aawe ... 80_228_229) all of which are University Libraries... Scanning down the list of library policies available through that site, you could in theory get it from one University through a library loan but it would be for a maximum of 3 weeks with no renewals... So in theory you have had a maximum of 6 weeks over the course of a couple of years to try and understand a 499 page book with a lot of highly technical information.... I don't think trying to get it for another three weeks is going to make much difference for you and again I recommend buying it so you try to really pay attention to the information provided. 

But again, I am unsure why you would cite the University of Calgary as having it, when you cannot borrow it from them.... so something still isn't adding up right. 

Ed


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> again I recommend buying it so you try to really pay attention to the information provided.


I repeat: buy this book- it's one of the best you can have in your amphibian reference library.


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