# Not For Frogs But...



## klik339 (May 17, 2010)

Well this is my 40g vertical plaudarium I built for my eyelash viper, I know it's what this site is for but since everyone here appreciates nice vivariums I figured you guys might enjoy it. I'll take better pictures when my camera is charged these pictures were taken on my phone










the stream flowing into the pond area









the big guy


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## Nate (Jan 5, 2009)

Nice viv  I don't know much about eyelash vipers though...  
Does the tank have good air flow 'cause that tilly will die fast  
When I was newer to the hobby I created a sizable viv with a ton of tillys... learn from experience eh? Not a good way for me to spend 80 bucks 

Anyway- how big do they grow?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Great viv and stunning snake! Thanks for posting


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## klik339 (May 17, 2010)

yea the whole front of the enclosure is screen i just took it off to get better pictures and my living room fan is usually on so the air flow is perfect. i killed a bunch of tillys myself learning the hard way how much air they really need haha.
the viper is a male so he really doesnt have much more growing left to do, males average between 14-18" and he is already 13" long. females can get up to 24" some even get bigger but it's rare


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## Lycosa (Jul 13, 2010)

Beautiful eyelash viper. I love the yellow phase, one of my favorites.

Great viv too!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Purely out of curiosity, do these snakes not need a lot of climbing perches? 

Beautiful snake.


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## klik339 (May 17, 2010)

The funny thing about eyelash vipers from what I noticed, even though they are arboreal snakes they will spend a lot of time exploring the bottom of the tank and climb up the background instead of the perches. I used to have him in a 20g extra high with a lot of branched out sticks in there for him to climb on but he would choose to move on the bottom of the tank instead. the only time i would see him up high in the tank is during the day when he was sleeping. in this tank he curls up by the big brom during the day and sleeps there. however i do plan on putting sum holes in the corkbark tube and putting some branches in there so he can have more to climb on in there besides the tube and background


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## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

I would still add a few more vines/ perches . You would be supprised how much they do use them. And maybe a few more plants. Other then that lookin good. Love the eyelash


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

What do you feed him?


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Nice snake klik, heres a couple shots of my arboreal viper cages

this is for a trio of bothriechis schlegeli (eyelash vipers)









Mine are light mint green with pink bands. hard to get to show up in photos but very pretty in person


















the other viv is for asian arboreals, cryptelytrops venustus pair and insularis pair










couple shots of the snakes

venustus

























insularis

















be careful with those eyelashes in a well planted viv. they are GOOD at hiding. they like to tuck way into the plants, especially bromeliad axils.

















good luck with your little guy! you should breed him!


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow I didn't realize how small those guys were. How much do they generally run for?


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Beautiful snakes. I would consider venemous if I was in more of a permanent residence.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

sick viper collection Josh!!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Freakin' amazing! Keep 'em coming!!

Would still like to know the diet.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Those are some beautiful snakes guys! Better be careful with them. How do you guys move them or whatever if you have to do something with their cage, or change it or add stuff, ect..


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## rollinkansas (Jun 9, 2008)

They are really cool snakes indeed.

And that venustus is gorgeous.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

They are so small!!! Is the bite lethal?


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## klik339 (May 17, 2010)

Great looking snakes, you've got quite the arboreal collection. I just got rid of my 1.1 Monocle Cobras I traded them for 2.2 Western Bush Vipers (atheris chlorechis). They are in a temporary enclosure until I finish building them a permanant one. 

fleshfrombone: i've picked some up for $50 but they typically run anywhere between $200-600 depending on size and color

frogtofall: there is a lot of conflicting data on the lethality of their bite. i remember when I was volunteering at the Bronx Zoo I questioned their lethality with one of the head venomous keepers there and even he said that some herpetologists will say it's lethal and others say it will make you just wish you were dead. from what i've seen with mice it varies with how quickly they die and compared to my Bush Vipers, the Eyelash has a weaker venom


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## klik339 (May 17, 2010)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Those are some beautiful snakes guys! Better be careful with them. How do you guys move them or whatever if you have to do something with their cage, or change it or add stuff, ect..


Snake hook and patience to carefully move it to a 10g tank with a few branches in it. It is much easier doing maintenance with the Eyelash viper than my Gaboon viper or when I had my Cobras


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## laylow (Apr 6, 2009)

I love those yellow vipers! Super sick snakes. My question is. . . . Why!!! With ETB's and GTP's out there why go with something that could potentially get out and KILL YOUR A!!


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

klik, you should definitely post pics of your chlorechis! I may be getting a proven pair of atheris squamigera soon as well as another pair of venustus. I f you ever want to get rid of a pair of them chlorechis, let me know  

antone, i feed my animals freshly killed mice. I thump them. I do not like feeding them thawed mice as they are not fresh. feeding them live is much more agonizing to the mouse, so i just thump them and it gets it over with real quick. as for the potency of the venom, it all depends on species and sometimes even locality. the atheris have been known to have a very mild venom, but in recent years, people have been realizing their venom is horrendously bad! if it doesnt kill you, it will most likely do LOTS of serious tissue damage. there is no antivenin for atheris as well. there are some interesting articles on this. as for the eyelash vipers, they are not quite as bad but there have been a few reported deaths from them. the venom from the other snakes i have is supposedly very mild. i am not going to get bit to find out 

do you still live in florida antone?? if so, there are LOTS of venomous dealers down there if you were interested in learning more.

for anyone interested, here is a great venomous site

http://venomland.forumotions.com/

and here is a good post on atheris venom

http://venomland.forumotions.com/venom-f10/the-venom-of-the-atherini-tribe-t124.htm


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Josh, i remember seeing you mention those builds in another thread, and remember you saying they were constructed out of plywood. 


Outt of curiosity, what did you seal the wood with? Did you line it with something like FRP, or did you use a sealent, like a marine Epoxy?


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

this last one with the snake in the brom is awsome


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> Josh, i remember seeing you mention those builds in another thread, and remember you saying they were constructed out of plywood.
> 
> 
> Outt of curiosity, what did you seal the wood with? Did you line it with something like FRP, or did you use a sealent, like a marine Epoxy?


these cages are actually temporary set ups until i can afford to build larger, nicer enclosures. I went the cheap rout and used silicone to seal them lol. i just put it on nice and thick on the bottom and sides. its worked surprisingly well. the more perminent ones i build will be sealed with an epoxy.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

So neat! Are there any non lethal arboreal serpents of similar size, color and temperament?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

as for price... i saw a lot of this phase (or something very similar) for something like $35 at SC repticon. 









i dont want to stray too far off topic but id like to ask; ive been toying with the idea of getting a single Sistrurus miliarius barbouri (id get something smaller like the eyelash viper but in GA residents are only allowed to keep native venomous) anyway im not sure that its a great idea. any thoughts from the venomous keepers here?

nice viv btw. personally id like to see some more vining plants in there though something that could cover the background and make it look like a jumgle  perhaps some small aroid

james


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

The yellows look amazing. I'd like to keep one but I've heard they are a pain to feed. That and I REALLY don't want to get bit. I was reading about a guy that lost 9 babies in his truck and one bit him when he was searching for them. He said it was like a mosquito bite that burned then went away. Do you remove them to clean the viv or do you let the waste breakdown naturally?


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## Lycosa (Jul 13, 2010)

Just in case people in Florida are interested, it requires a venomous reptile license. I've had mine for years, but it isn't easy to get. The license requires 1000 hours of experience working under another licensed keeper. All cages must meet minimum criteria for what is considered safe. Also, inspections happen at least once per year.

The fee used to be $5, but now they jumped that up to $100 a few years ago.

As a long time licensed keeper, I think it's only right to say that unless you have a lot of experience, all the proper husbandry tools, and absolutely escape proof enclosures should you even consider keeping a venomous snake. It may only take 1 accident to kill you.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Lycosa said:


> Just in case people in Florida are interested, it requires a venomous reptile license. I've had mine for years, but it isn't easy to get. The license requires 1000 hours of experience working under another licensed keeper. All cages must meet minimum criteria for what is considered safe. Also, inspections happen at least once per year.
> 
> The fee used to be $5, but now they jumped that up to $100 a few years ago.
> 
> As a long time licensed keeper, I think it's only right to say that unless you have a lot of experience, all the proper husbandry tools, and absolutely escape proof enclosures should you even consider keeping a venomous snake. It may only take 1 accident to kill you.


as a former FL resident i am aware of this. pretty strict rules but at least they let you reapply if your found in violation. 

i agree with proper tools and escape proof cages, but as i havent kept hot snakes ill admit i have no idea how their care differs from nonvenomous, other than the no handling deal (at least i wouldnt handle a venomous w/o tongs/hook etc.) what experience do you think is required, that is different from nonvenomous? (not being asinine, just wondering)

james


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

fleshfrombone said:


> The yellows look amazing. I'd like to keep one but I've heard they are a pain to feed. That and I REALLY don't want to get bit. I was reading about a guy that lost 9 babies in his truck and one bit him when he was searching for them. He said it was like a mosquito bite that burned then went away. Do you remove them to clean the viv or do you let the waste breakdown naturally?


Well, remember that these cages are fairly new. things have yet to start filling in. there is pepperomia rotundifolia and dischidia cliestantha in these cages. you also have to remember that with such heavy bodied animals, it is harder to have more fragile vines and such in there. they trample them very easily. 

Antone, there are quite a few non venomous or mildly venomous colubrid arboreals out there. Vine snakes of the ahuetulla and oxybelis genus, parrot snakes, paradise flying snakes, pseustes, etc. Look on kingsnake.com. theres lots of stuff.

as far as cleaning, I take the snakes out if I am doing any cleaning. Gotta be super careful.

-josh


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## klik339 (May 17, 2010)

james67 said:


> i dont want to stray too far off topic but id like to ask; ive been toying with the idea of getting a single Sistrurus miliarius barbouri (id get something smaller like the eyelash viper but in GA residents are only allowed to keep native venomous) anyway im not sure that its a great idea. any thoughts from the venomous keepers here?


They are a small species and hook (meaning you can use a snake hook to move them for cage cleaning, etc.) but they are known to be fiesty. from the ones i've dealt with they all strike fairly quickly but then again so do most rattlesnakes. the rule of them i've notice with venomous animals is the smaller they are, the more prone they are to biting. do some research and be careful. they are a beautiful species but are not one to be messing around with.


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## klik339 (May 17, 2010)

joh r: here you go










best picture ever


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