# Pedostibes Hosii eggs



## janvier

I came home yesterday to find two of my Malaysian Tree Toads in amplexus with what looked to be over 1,000 eggs in the water. The endless string of eggs were still attached to her. Later that day in the evening her and the male finally parted ways after she laid the rest of the eggs and retreated back to the top of the terrarium. I have a group of two females and four males that I acquired in late July 2012. After setting up a home made rain system in the terrarium just a few days ago i now have eggs. Here are some pics....pretty exciting


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## Blue_Pumilio

I love seeing this thread!!! I'll be setting up my group soon!


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## Blue_Pumilio

A full tank shot of your rain chamber would be nice, too.


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## Lance

Thats a lot of eggs... Good luck with the tads


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## janvier

Here are a couple pics of the enclosure. It's an extra large exo terra 36x36x18. I usually have a few more small plants in the water but i had to remove everything today to get the eggs out. I took that time to give it a good cleaning while the terrarium was empty. My rain chamber is the terrarium. I have a rio pump on the bottom that circulates water to some tubes running across the inside top of the cage. I can take some pictures and describe it better if your'e interested. I wanted to make something that replicating rainfall and water droplets and it works pretty well. It doesn't require moving the toads into an unfamiliar enclosure or rain chamber and adding stress. Although these guys are so cool I don't think Iv'e ever seen them stressed. They just might be the best kept secret in the amphibian pet trade. They are even active during the day, at times. I don't have much experience with amphibians, only reptiles but these guys are much more entertaining than tree frogs. More people should get to know Pedostibes Hosii


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## janvier

Oh I might add that I keep the group together all year round. I don't know what other people do, as it's hard to even find people who have these guys. I had a group of twelve together in another setup for a couple months till me and my friend split them up. Didn't have any problems. Would love hear about your experiences with them, breeding ect.


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## billschwinn

Congratulations on the breeding. I hope you do well with the tads.


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## kitcolebay

As Bill already said, congrads and good luck! Absolutely amazing to see all those eggs! Keep us posted!

With that many eggs/tads, I think you'll have enough to introduce all of DB with a few of their own! Lol.

-Chris


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## TDK

Dear God and I thought I had to get ready to feed a lot of tads with the Bumble Bee Toads! I don't think there is a 1000 it looks more like thousands upon thousands. I don't know what the feeding requirements are for tads and the toadlets but you've got your hands full. By the way what are the feeding requirements of the tadpoles,tads and adults?


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## janvier

Yeah I think your'e correct, it does look like more then 1,000 eggs. i don't know what I'm gonna do if a good amount of these survive. i guess it's a good problem to have....lol... The eggs are changing into the shape of a tadpole getting long and skinny and they are moving a lot. I just made the first partial water change this morning and I will keep an eye on them. I ordered some Sera Micron and will try and feed it to the tadpoles. Maybe mix it with some blue algae. There isn't much info on these guys so it's hard to say what the best food source is. After looking at a very closely enhanced picture of the tadpoles mouth they look like bottom feeders or grazers. I feed my adults mostly crickets. Iv'e tried feeding dubia roaches but they don't move around enough and their grip is often to strong for the toads to pick them off. These guys are ambush predators so with the dubia roaches hardly moving it just doesn't work too well. Iv'e also tried banana roaches and those are nice feeders but you will have more of them flying around your house than you can get inside the cage. They seem to prefer smaller prey items. As far as the toadlets I guess I better get on those fruit flies pronto. Maybe springtails, I don't know. Anybody have a good suggestion for small prey items for toadlets. These guys are the size of a pencil eraser when they become toads. I'm not an experienced amphibian keeper. You could say these are my first amphibians. I've done well so far but there is still so much to learn.


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## TDK

I have Bumble Bee Toads that have bred recently and have started 14 new cultures of Springtails in tree fern root to help feed them. I also made a sifter out of 3 old sweater boxes and 2 sizes of screen to sift for Springtails in my compost and loose leaves on my property and have found many Springtails this way recently and have started culturing these and with Springtime coming I should have plenty if I run out of cultured ones. You might try the same thing. I have a solid tub on the bottom with a small screened tub above (window screen) and 1/4" screened tub at the top where I load leaves by pitchfork and then shake back and forth to sift the Springtails out. You can separate as needed from there to remove any undesirables out. Of course time your fruit flies and get a batch of those growing. I read where some people had stunted the flies by keeping the mix drier to have smaller ones available. I found I had the same problem feeding Dubia roaches to my Tarantulas so I put the roaches in a small clear tub and the Tarantulas would pick them out. The tub could be a shallow clear ashtray so the toads wouldn't knock it over but they can see them move and the roaches don't have a surface to cling to and try to hide so they are constantly moving in the tub.


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## TDK

Here's a photo of the 3 sweater box sifter I made to sift out Springtails. If you sift the leaves in your yard and let the sifted material fall through the first screen which has 1/4" holes into the sweater box with the smaller window screen you will start to see Springtails in the solid tub almost immediatley. You can let the window screen tub sit in the solid tub and the Springtails will continue to find ther way through the screen or you can continue sifting. At this point you can remove any bugs like small centipedes that find ther way through and can feed the toadlets from this mix of leaf dust and Springtails/small bugs or separate the Springtails for culturing see http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fo...clean-your-mite-contaminated-springtails.html . You'll probably find more than one species and can separate these individually or I put them in a container marked mixed. Note I've got the tubs out of order in the photo--it should be 1/4" screen first, then the window screen and last the solid tub.


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## epiphytes etc.

Grats on the breeding. It would be nice to have these readily available as cb. I would think toadlets the size of a pencil eraser would be able to take wingless melos just fine.


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## Blue_Pumilio

My previous babies took wingless Melanogastor.



janvier said:


> Yeah I think your'e correct, it does look like more then 1,000 eggs. i don't know what I'm gonna do if a good amount of these survive. i guess it's a good problem to have....lol... The eggs are changing into the shape of a tadpole getting long and skinny and they are moving a lot. I just made the first partial water change this morning and I will keep an eye on them. I ordered some Sera Micron and will try and feed it to the tadpoles. Maybe mix it with some blue algae. There isn't much info on these guys so it's hard to say what the best food source is. After looking at a very closely enhanced picture of the tadpoles mouth they look like bottom feeders or grazers. I feed my adults mostly crickets. Iv'e tried feeding dubia roaches but they don't move around enough and their grip is often to strong for the toads to pick them off. These guys are ambush predators so with the dubia roaches hardly moving it just doesn't work too well. Iv'e also tried banana roaches and those are nice feeders but you will have more of them flying around your house than you can get inside the cage. They seem to prefer smaller prey items. As far as the toadlets I guess I better get on those fruit flies pronto. Maybe springtails, I don't know. Anybody have a good suggestion for small prey items for toadlets. These guys are the size of a pencil eraser when they become toads. I'm not an experienced amphibian keeper. You could say these are my first amphibians. I've done well so far but there is still so much to learn.


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## eos

kitcolebay said:


> With that many eggs/tads, I think you'll have enough to introduce all of DB with a few of their own!


I totally agree! Congrats again!


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## TDK

Blue_Pumilio said:


> My previous babies took wingless Melanogastor.


How many did you have and how old are the offspring now?


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## janvier

TDK thanks for the info I need to get on feeders right away. Unfortunately I live in the city so finding springtails in my yard isn't going to happen, but I can get my own started right here. This will be interesting, little baby toads with tiny insects to go along with. I've got my work cut out. I have not gone to sleep before 3AM since they laid eggs, mostly because I was not prepared for it. I was hoping for it, but not prepared. I came home tonight after work and was worried because even after a water change this morning the water became very cloudy. I put them in a large cement mixing tub with more water and surface area, so hopefully they will be okay. I'm confused about when I should start feeding them because I have what I guess are tadpoles swimming around. Most of them are still inside what ever the water filled sac or tubes that the eggs are inside is called. But some will swim for a bit and fall to the bottom and wiggle around. The rest are still wiggling in the same spots they were spit out of from mom as eggs. Are they still developing and not ready to eat or is it possible that a few are ready for food. The eggs were laid on the 10th so all is happening very fast. These things are so tiny, it's amazing.


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## TDK

I start feeding the Bumble Bee Toads as soon as they become free swimming. At first they hang on the sides of the glass and don't swim around and first start eating the bio film and algae that's been growing in the tanks and on the aquatic plants I had set up for some time. After they start swimming I take TetraColor Tropical Flakes and grind them through a sieve into a powder and mix it from water from the same tank in a small cup and add to the tank with a turkey baster. I also have been using Repashy Savory stew and feed the same way with a turkey baster but just mix in the water and stir since it's a gel. I also added Almond leaves that I had in a jar sitting in sun light to grow some algae on and broke that into sections and added. If the tub you introduced them to didn't have algae and bio film growing they may not have anything to feed on right away. The Bumble Bee Toads develop fast and started free swimming and eating in 5 to 6 days. Maybe if you didn't have aquatic plants with algae growing on them you might try a local aquarium store that might be able to help and buy a large group of leafy plants but be careful introducing something like a disease or bacteria but it may be better to do this rather than them not having something to eat. I don't know what other algae based foods there are but I also use Spirulina. There may be other more complete algae based ones. Maybe Blue_Pumilio bred some before so maybe he can provide some advice. Also zBrinks seems very knowledgeable and has been breeding Bumble Bee Toads also. I would guess in their natural environment they would be in small pools with leaves covering the bottom with algae growing on the rotting leaves. Have others here had success breeding these toads and can you provide some information on feeding? I also have been changing 1/3 to 1/2 of the water daily with spot cleaning with the turkey baster.


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## TDK

You might also want to have several tubs because of the quantity of eggs you have and separate these in case you have something go wrong with one group hopefully the others will survive, but that means extra heaters, filters etc. if you don't have that now and a lot of water standing/aging and needs to be the same temperature as the water your exchanging. I have my toads in 3 different containers currently and I think I have 3 to 400 tads. I can't express how important clean water is to the toads I'm working with and lost groups before I believe to poor water quality and will change water a few hours after feeding to remove and waste by spot cleaning with the turkey baster and exchanging water. See http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/toads/60520-bumble-bee-toads-breeding.html and Josh's Frogs website and zBrinks care sheet for Bumble Bee Toads as I assume you could use some of these guidelines for your toads if others can't provide some experience in keeping the kind you have.


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## janvier

Thanks 

This is a bit stressful because i was in no way prepared and I'm new to all of this. I'm definitely going to get a couple more tubs so i can split them up more when they are free. I still have some bad eggs that are white in color and getting fussy. The problem is I don't think I can remove them because they are inside with some of the baby tads that haven't broke free yet. The eggs and tads are so thick I can't see in the middle of it so I don't know how many I'm really dealing with. until they are free and swimming. I've been using water from a glacier filtered drinking water machine a couple blocks away. I'm going to get an RO filter for the house over the weekend so I don't have to make water runs at 2AM like last night. Also plan on getting a 50 gallon drum so I can have the water aged and ready. I have been adding cycle to the water and heating it before adding it to the tads. I know some people use tap water but I don't even like washing my vegetables with that stuff so these guys will get the same treatment. The plants sound like a smart idea, wish I had some of those established. I have some plants in the toad terrarium but not the kind that would have algae growing on them. I don't think they are ready to eat yet but some might be in the next day or so. Maybe I will try and add a little something tomorrow. I will try some of the foods you recommend. I ordered some sera micron but don't think it will be here in time. Do you put filters in with your tadpoles? I know there is a fear of them getting sucked inside and killed. After the scare of the water yesterday. I added a filter for them in the cement tub but I zip tied another filter replacement on the outside of the suction area to prevent this from happening. It seems to be working so far, no tad poles stuck on the side and and there are a few laying on top of it. If this other female lays eggs i'm really in trouble.


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## kitcolebay

Following with lots of interest. Wishing you the best of luck! Keep us posted!


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## billschwinn

TDK said:


> How many did you have and how old are the offspring now?


I am curious on this as well, wondering if mortality was high with that many eggs produced.


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## janvier

Thanks a lot. I'm not sure on mortality rate. I have a bunch of wigglers in there now but the egg mass is so dense i can't see all of whats going on. I had thousands of eggs and it looks like I've got 1,000 tadpoles, give or take. Most have not broken free yet so it's hard to estimate, but it's a lot. More and more are coming out by the minute. I have them in a black tub now and will split them in another tub tomorrow. The tub is not the most picture friendly for documentation but I have just a few in a 10 gallon and will put some more in there so I can see them better and maybe get some more pictures posted of progression.

Thanks


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## TDK

I haven't been using a filter this go around but did before and you can make a simple one if you take a submersible pump and put it inside a Tupperware container and punch or melt many, many small holes into the side of it smaller than your tads but again many, many because the pump has to have enough water to pass through and then fill the Tupperware box with filter floss or sponge to collect debris. I can sketch you what I'm talking about, take a photo and post if you'd like. At this point it might be better to do the water changes unless you have the time and cash to build filters for each tub but even then you would need to do the changes especially with the number of tad you're dealing with. Take all the dead eggs out that you can. I use an eye dropper to suck them loose.

All I can say is DAMN and good luck.


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## janvier

An eye dropper is good idea....lol. I did get a turkey baster but thought it would be too big right now because the live tadpoles aren't in full swim mode. They are right next to the partially developed dead or eggs that never developed. I couldn't suck the dead up with out getting the living as well. I'll try and get all I can out tomorrow. i know if I fan them lightly creating water current they will swim off a little ways before they drop back down. This might be a way to get them out of the suction zone of the baster or eye dropper. Never thought I'd be dealing with so many fragile little lives.....damn is right.


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## TDK

We all want to see some photos of whatever you got going on and see some progress reports. Thanks.


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## snared99

Very awesome!


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## janvier

Iv'e been running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. I had absolutely no equipment for rearing tadpoles. I got another tub setup and put the huge egg mass in it, which has tons of moldy eggs as well as living tadpoles that have yet to swim free. The mass is my biggest problem right now. It's so hard to separate the tadpoles from even the broken off pieces. I'm trying to remove as much as I can with the turkey baster. The egg mass is really polluting the water so the sooner it's gone the better. I will setup a third tub tonight and transfer some tads in that tomorrow. Some of the first tads look like the are ready to eat so I will try feeding them for the first time tonight. I bought some nutrafin max spirulina flakes and tablets. I guess I will grind them up and use a turkey baster to add them to the water. I thought about trying to make a paste with the food and let in dry on some rocks and then add them to the bottom of the tubs for grazing. I won't have the sera micron till tuesday. Anyone use blue algae for the there tads, if so what kind? I also got some calcium and vitamins. These tads don't look like the type to eat food from the surface so hopefully it sinks to the bottom when I add it to the water. I will post some pics tomorrow when I get the third tub setup. Any comments or suggestions please fire away. I'm a rookie and I'm not ashamed of it....

Thanks


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## TDK

Yeah it's a good idea to start transferring tads to a separate tank by themselves away from anything dead and decaying to prevent death and continue to do water changes even with the tank with just the tads especially if you think it's carrying much in contaminants with them. Send some photos as soon as you have time.


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## janvier

I'm sorry guys but these crappy pictures is the best I can do right now. Its gloomy in sunny california and I'm getting hardly any light where the tubs are. Plus my house lights aren't getting it either. Tried using a flashlight but it's giving a glare, but it's the only way for you to see anything. I'll try to get some better pics if the sun comes out and later in the day when the sun is repositioned. The pictures make the water look dirty but it's just the quality of the photo. Picture 6 is before I took out the egg mass and sucked out the dead eggs on the bottom yesterday.


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## janvier

In the last photo to the right of the picture there are tons of tads all huddled next to each other. There are so many in one space you almost miss it in the picture. The crap quality doesn't help. i need to get my sister over here with here 7D. Times like these make me wish I bought one. I'll get some better pics though.


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## TDK

Looks like you're on your way. Hundreds on the sides of the tubs just like the BB Toad tads do. Keep us posted and if you can get somebody with a better camera to document their growth it would be great. I myself need to go but another camera even a cheap one is better than a cell phone camera.


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## billschwinn

Can you post pics and describe rain system and what is a rio pump?


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## Blue_Pumilio

Water quality is everything, gotta step it up a notch. Amquel and water changes are your friends, so is adequate oxygen.


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## TDK

billschwinn said:


> Can you post pics and describe rain system and what is a rio pump?


Rio is a manufacturer of pumps TAAM, Aquarium Products I use pumps from Fountain Directory


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## janvier

Water is clear if you look at the first and fifth picture. The others came out weird because of the camera but all were taken at the same time, except for the very last photo. Can't get much quality out of my Iphone. I'm gonna try and get some underwater video footage of them in the 10 gallon with my gopro when the get a little bigger. Should be cool...


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## Blue_Pumilio

Clear water doesn't mean good water quality. Ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite can still be sky high. Just watch for it....will prevent growth and you'll get weak froglets. 



janvier said:


> Water is clear if you look at the first and fifth picture. The others came out weird because of the camera but all were taken at the same time, except for the very last photo. Can't get much quality out of my Iphone. I'm gonna try and get some underwater video footage of them in the 10 gallon with my gopro when the get a little bigger. Should be cool...


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## billschwinn

I use Prime for my water treatment. It is great for locking up ammonia, and as well chlorine and chloramine, I prefer it way more than Amquell.


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## janvier

I've been using prime for these guys as well. It's working well for me so far.

Thanks


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## TDK

I too have used Prime but did not these last 2 breedings of BB Toads. More because I forgot I had it. I use RO water with a 5 stage filter and then age for a couple of days. One thing I have noticed in the last 2 breedings is the tank with the smaller number of tads develop the quickest and largest tads. Less competition for food and higher volume of water per tad ratio seem to be the reasons.

Keep us posted with development of tads, loss of tads/eggs, what they are eating, temps--anything like that, that others may use. Keeps notes. I have wondered why so many eggs didn't develop/weren't fertilized and what caused that. Could it have been water movement from the pump pushing the sperm from the eggs or what? The last batch of BB Toads eggs I had many that weren't fertilized. Probably more weren't than was. This time I found only a couple of bads eggs.


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## janvier

Well the house is buzzing with airstone pumps. I picked a food grade 55 gallon drum over the weekend and filled it with water today. I've been using RO water from a drinking machine all this time. I added 40 gallons RO and 15 gallons tap to maybe put some minerals back in the water. Till now I didn't have the luxury of aging water so I was adding it as soon as I got the water heated.. Iv'e got a heater and air stone in the 55 gallon drum with prime and NovAqua plus water conditioner to remove any metals. Have not used the novaqua but thought I'd try it since I mixed a little tap in this time. I should have the black water extract tomorrow, so I'll add some of that as well. Any body use indian leaves? I ordered some but have no experience with them. I'm keeping the tads water at 78 degrees and thought about bumping it up to 80 but it's where I started so figured I'd leave it be. Saturday I finally removed the egg mass from the second tub. It had to go because it was starting to smell a little. I still had some tads that were a little behind and had yet to come out. I put the egg mass in a 10 gallon and went through the whole thing removing any remaining tads. I've lost maybe 20 tads in the last three days. All of them were very small so the were maybe younger ones or just weaker. I emptied the 10 gallon because I needed it for the egg mass. i must have had a couple hundred tads in there. I thought Maybe 50 or so but after sucking those suckers up with the turkey baster man I had a lot more than I thought. It took me forever to remove all of those tads.

Now I'm thinking maybe I have closer to 1500 hundred tads. I may need another couple tubs as these guys grow but I will wait and see how many hang in there. I'm going to transfer some back in the 10 gallon in a couple days so i can get some better pics up for you guys to see the growth process. Still feeding the spirulina flakes and ground up tablets. The sera micron should arrive tomorrow so I will add that to the menu and maybe some calcium and vitamins. I'm not used to feeding them and still trying to gauge how much food they need to keep a balance. They are so tiny it's difficult to get a feel. I'm just sucking any waste at the bottom of the tubs a couple times a day to keep it as clean as possible. Luckily my schedule is flexible and I don't work 9-5 hours, I don't know what I'd do if it wasn't. 

I figure less than half of the eggs were good but even at those numbers I've got way more than I know what to do with. My toads laid the eggs in the front of the terrarium away from the filter and pump. This is not surprising because it's where I would always find the female when she was in the water. I guess water flow could affect the fertilizing of eggs. I keep most of the plants and things that would attract egg laying away from the filter and pump. I guess some males may be stronger than others but I'm happy with what this guy did. He's a champ in my book


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## janvier

My friend that has half of our original group of pedostibes hosii is selling a few of his males. if anyone is interested let me know and I can get you in contact with him. He only has one female and is not selling her. 

thanks


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## TDK

I do use Almond leaves in my BB Toad tadpole containers. What I have been doing is 2 leaves in a jar of R.O. water and sticking it in sunlight prior to breeding and during breeding to let some algae /slime grow on it to feed the tads and it also makes tadpole tea that I add, a little at a time while changing water, to their containers. I usually takes the leaves and tear them into smaller sections and add to each container. I've mentioned this before and witnessed it again yesterday, the tads seem to go for the stem of the plant. They will feed off the leaf itself but will often congregate at the stem ends and feed on it. Maybe the taste/smell is stronger at this point in the leaf. I have also put the leaf in a blender with R.O. water and ground it up and fed a little at a time this way.

Your next step, which you've been working on already, is getting lots of fruit flies and possibly Springtails going. After getting the toads established and a little age on them you can start selling. Your options might be going to a reptile show and advertise beforehand, sell and ship direct from your house (lots of boxes, containers, heat packs and trips to FedEx or elsewhere and a lot of phone and computer time or contact one of the seller/sponsors on this site and offer them a package deal on a quantity. You might consider donating some to a local zoo that has an interest in frogs/toads but please offer some of them to the Dendrobaord community.


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## janvier

Yes I remember you telling me about that. I only wish I could have planned for all if this and things like that ready ahead of time. I guess I could still put some in the sun and see how long it takes. These guys will be tads for a little while. I just got the Indian leaves today. Maybe I will break some up in the tubs with the tads. I thought of putting a couple in the 55 gallon drum with the aging water. I've been thinking about all that prep for shipping toads out and it makes my head hurt....lol. I'm going to get started on springtails and fruit flies this week or early next week. I was also thinking of donating some to a zoo but this will be the first place I offer them. Don't want want to count my chickens before they hatch so I will keep praying till they do.


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## CJW

That's amazing, congrats!


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## janvier

My girlfriend took some pics of the tads today. I just put the indian almond leaves in today and they seem to like them. Not bad for an IPhone. Put some Kent marine black water extract in the 55 gallon drum so I will see how it works in the next water change.


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## kitcolebay

Looking good! Still rootin' for ya'! Keep up the hard work!

-Chris


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## TDK

Any updates good or bad? New photos please. I always posted my successes as well as any failures in an attempt to pass on anything that might be helpful to others. I've lost entire group of BB Toad tads and eggs before and I think due to water conditions.


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## janvier

Hey guys

Everything is going really well and running smooth. For maybe three days I was loosing a few everyday out of every tub. This didn't worry me because it was such a small amount compared to what I have so I didn't feel it was due to poor conditions. They appeared to be younger so I just figured they must be smaller weaker ect. I did distribute the tads more evenly as I had tons in the first tub I setup. Yesterday and today I haven't lost any so maybe they are all getting to the point where they are eating and doing their thing. It's amazing how fast they grow and how far behind a group can be by just two or three days. I have a few big fat greedy ones I'm keeping my eye on in the 10 gallon. For the first time yesterday I was able to see their little mouths working as they fed. They responded well when I put food in yesterday. I've started including the sera micron and they seem to like it.

What I'm concerned about now is diet. I've been wondering if their diet could change a month from now or later as their head and mouths start to change shape. I know some people have had failures at raising the tads and I wonder what the problems were and if it was due to diet. I was looking at microworms and thought about getting a culture of those going. Aside from that I'm still brainstorming. It's better to have a few things available to see what works. I PM'd blue pumillo a while ago but no response. I wanted to hear about some of his experiences on breeding failures and success, mainly feeding and raising of the tads. I'm on a routine with the water and it's going well, so I'm not worried about water quality. I've been spot cleaning a few times a day and keeping water conditions consistent. I think my water ph has been consistently low, as in under 7.5 but I can't be precise, maybe due to RO water. Not much info out there on this species so it'a hard to say what is best for them. The only thing that has changed about the water in the last few days is the black water extract and the indian almond leaves, I got in the mail and maybe a few gallons of tap added to the 50 gallon drum.

I'm really happy so far, everything is going better than I could have hoped.


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## TDK

That's all good news. I've also been feeding Repashy Savory Stew as recommended by zBrinks for the BB Tads. The last batch wouldn't touch it and this batch loves it. It may be because I didn't offer the last batch any until late in their development. This stuff comes in a powder and makes like a stiff gel and you just scoop out how much you think they'll eat and add it to the tank. I saw the first front legs today on one of the tads in the tank with the least amount of tadpoles. This is 20 days after they were first laid. So they are developing fast. In this same tank is a runt that is about 1/5 the size of the rest. I had this happen last time and was able to rear it to a toadlet it just took longer. I don't know the difference in devlopment of these 2 species but within 1 to 2 weeks I expect a lot of them out of the water.


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## janvier

Congrats on the BB progress....man I can't wait to see some front legs over here....hell just give me some back legs...lol. I do remember you talking about the repashy stuff and I looked it up a few days ago. I guess I'll order some of that too. I rather have plenty of options. I always believed in a diet of variety. I'm going to order some microworm cultures as well, just incase. I might try and get some underwater video footage over the weekend. Let ya know how it comes out. Thanks for all the help and insight.


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## janvier

No updates really, everything is going well still. I had to remove the filters I had in two of the tubs because even with an outside filter I put over the suction area I had tadpoles that were still getting sucked inside them. I probably had a total of 40 between both filters. Their tales were getting sucked in where the filter head and filter chamber join together. No matter how many living tadpoles there may be, it still upsets me to loose a few. I could probably try and remedy the problem but I think I'll go without filters for the remainder. I ordered some repashy savory stew and should receive that soon, since they are only a two hour drive away. I don't know if they are ready for that food yet but I'll try it out and see.


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## CJW

Try some sponge filters, thats generally the way to go for small animals that are at risk of getting sucked up. Throw them in an established fish tank for a little while and then theyre as good as any power filter, and far more tadpole proof. Microworms are awesome, very easy to culture and seem to be a decent food source (at least for a variety) for a variety of small critters.


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## Tincman

Incredible pics!


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## janvier

Nice, those sponge filters are pretty trick...Yeah that would be the way to go. I'm not experienced with tadpoles or caring for anything in water. Thanks for that. I'm always spot cleaning and staying on top of my water changes so I may try to go the rest of the way without filters, but we will see how it goes. I have not seen any difference in my tubs with or without filters. I have 80-90 in a 10 gallon and they are getting huge. They are so much bigger than the rest and should be huge baby toads, if they make it. I may have to split them up because at first 90 tadpoles looked like 20-30 but they are growing now. I wonder if it's due to the java moss that's in that tank. I don't have moss in any of the other ones, just anacharis. Maybe I should put some java in the rest of them. Or it could be just easier for them to get food with a smaller area. I do still have some runts in the 10 gallon but I have some monsters in there too.


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## CJW

Plants are always a fine idea. I've accidently raised eastern newt larvae to efts just off the microfauna living in a mass of java moss and hornwort. If you have just a bare tank with no plants or filtration, might want to throw an airstone and pump into the mix to keep the water turning over. Easier and cheaper to get a bunch of hornwort from some pet store though. Variety is the key to tadpole diet ime, but sounds like they're growing nicely so you're doing something right. Kudos!


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## TDK

Any updates and can you post some new photos and give us an idea how large the tads are, how much they have grown?


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## janvier

Sure I will see if I can get some new pics tomorrow. I transfered the 90 or so tadpoles I had in the 10 gallon into a clear plastic container to give them more surface area. This small group is getting huge and could probably easily swallow some of the runts. They are the biggest of all four tubs. I will see if I can put something in the water for size reference in the picture. I still have over 1,000 tadpoles and their apetites are increasing a lot. All they do is eat and sh_t. As soon as I feed them it's time for spot cleaning again. I spot clean two or three times a day atleast. Very often take a glance at 1:00AM and notice something needs attention. I'm night owl so its okay.


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## janvier

Sorry guys. Wish I had something of better quality for ya but all I've got is my trusty Iphone. I'm gonna try at get some still shots with the gopro over the weekend and see if it works any better. Picture taken today 4/5/13 eggs were laid 3/10/13


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## TDK

Appear to be somewhat lager than the BB tads and by this time I had many out of the water. So it appears they develop slower and larger but how long until they grow legs and come out of the water. Hopefully they will be large enough to eat fruit flies out of the water.


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## janvier

*We Got Legs*

We have back legs ladies and gentlemen. I noticed them on a few of my biggest tads today and they aren't nubs they are full legs. It's like it happened over night....lol


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## CJW

Wow, congratulations!!


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## janvier

*back legs*

Here are some pictures of the legs. I'm really wishing I had a canon 7d right now. Look at the huge size difference between the two tads. I have maybe 10 around this size amongst 80 or so larger tads in this tub. The tads in the other tubs are all smaller than the these guys but not as small as that tiny guy. Maybe it is due to the much higher population in those tubs.


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## TDK

I also had runts with the BB Toads and just kept them in the same tank they were in and some developed long after the first.


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## janvier

*Albino Tadpole*

So I was looking in the tubs yesterday and noticed an unusual tadpole. At first I thought it was swimming on it's back because it appeared to be clear or white. I then notice that it was right side up and appeared to be an albino, leucistic or something. I just took him out of the black tub and have him in a clear plastic container while I setup a 10 gallon for him and few others so I can pay closer attention to him. Now that he is in a plastic clear container I noticed that he is clear as well and not white the only color you see are his intestines. I don't know anything about albino amphibians and how that whole thing works, especially when trying to breed those animals back. I'm sure it's much different than how reptile selective breeding is done. I will have to do some research on it. But man would a albino tree toad be cool.


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## Eric Walker

Tadpoles develop like that from time to time without anything odd resulting from it. Iv had two different tree frog species produce tads like this that all morphed just fine and looked normal. Probably nothing special. Hate to burst your bubble. Congrats on getting them this far.


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## janvier

No problem I'm more than happy with my progress so far, an albino would simply be a plus. I guess i'll keep an eye on it and see what happens.


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## savagesage

Keep up the good work! Im rooting for you haha, Watching with much interest


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## janvier

Some of these guys are starting to rest on their back legs and move them around.


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## janvier

I didn't expect this so soon. From what i thought I had no front legs as of yesterday. When should I expect them to eat? After the tail is completely gone? Should I transfer them into something with less water. I have some floating cork in the tub and some vine but the water level is still high for the tads.


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## TDK

Congrats! As long as they are not drowning I would give them a little more time to absorb their tails. Otherwise you could transfer them to a shoe box with maybe 1/4" of water and a piece of cork bark, maybe with sphagnum in about 1/3 of the bottom and a few leaves to climb out onto and to hide under. Introduce a few fruit flies to see if they will eat, they look big enough to me but you be the judge. 

I've been out collecting local toad tadpoles before the pools they are in dry out--watch for the post in a few (if the photos aren't too large to upload again).


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## spawn

They will eat 2-7 days after the tail is completely gone.


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## janvier

Still a long ways to go but here are a couple pics. I took a few out of the tub today since they were jumping and climbing around, looked like they were ready.


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## Blue_Pumilio

Congrats on your success so far!



janvier said:


> Still a long ways to go but here are a couple pics. I took a few out of the tub today since they were jumping and climbing around, looked like they were ready.


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## janvier

So everyday I have some more little ones coming out of the water. So far I have about a 60% survival rate. They have been passing before they are ready to remove from the tub. At first I thought it was drowning so I attempted the tilt method in a small container with small rocks and a couple leaves making it near impossible to drown. I've even seen one or two die in front of my eyes. I'm not sure if it's something I'm doing or if it's just nature and some just aren't strong enough to make the transition. The different things that I've tried have not made any increase in the 60% survival rate, so far. I thought about putting some in a small container with just enough water to cover the bottom so they could lay flat and still keep the top of their heads above water. Then once they are sitting up on there limbs a day or two later I would transfer them again into substrate. I keep checking on them and when I see them struggling i will place them on some anacharis so they can relax. Then I will look later and some have moved back into the water swimming about and then sinking to the bottom. Again I try and help them out....lol... Doesn't matter because it hasn't changed any results. It's just hard to watch but I may just have to let nature take it's course. I have plenty of plants, cork and rock filled pots in the tub for them to relax at the surface while they still developing. I've found some dead on the bottom and some dead resting on plants and rocks on the surface and has made me somewhat dismiss drowning. Of course I could be wrong about this and still have much to learn. As far as the ones that have morphed completely and have been moved they are doing fine and have no losses so far. It's still very early to tell how and if they are eating. I did witness one trying to eat last night and they all appear to have lots of energy and can jump surprisingly far for such a tiny animal. I have some springtails and small fruit flies in with them for food. They look like they may be able to handle small fruit flies so I put some in to see. It's hard to keep count but I think I have 17 or 18 in the container on substrate and have lost maybe 10-12 in the tub before they were ready to move. I probably should start writing it down to try and keep track. Luckily this small group is ahead of the others so it gives me time to brainstorm and maybe try a few different methods. I'm gong to try and add micro worms and a couple other things to the diet of the next group and see if it makes any difference in fatality rate. Overall I'm pretty happy so far. I did't expect all to live and I knew there would be losses but I have a strong love for animals and hate to see anything die. Even if I had 50% survival I would have more than I'd know what to do with.

Anyone have any insight or want to share their experiences I'm open to hear. I'm not prideful and have repeated that I'm new to amphibians so I'm learning as I go. Doing my best to keep up and live up to these little lives that are relying on me

Thanks


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## CJW

Wow, looking food so far!
It could just be something in their natural diet that's not coming in at the right levels in captivity. So some might just not have the power to make it even if they were thriving in the water. But 60% isn't too bad overall. Think of what happens in the wild. 100% is generally an unrealistic goal in toads, there's just so just many of em.....


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## TDK

Can you give us an update with some additional photos?


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## janvier

I have 20-25 on land doing well and another four I took out today and placed in a small container with tiny bit of water and moss. Iv'e been having trouble with the survival rate when they first morph and come to the surface. For the last few days it's been less than half survival rate. There are a few other things I'd like to try if I get eggs next year, mostly with the diet. I'm going to turn the rain back on for the next few days and see if I can get my other female to lay eggs. I might as well while everything is still all setup. I wasn't going to because it's a lot of work with so many but what the hell. The ones that made it to full toadlet stage have all survived so far. I have a few that are getting fat and growing fast. I would like to include some pics but they are so small it's hard to get pictures in their container. It's also near impossible to do it by myself because when I open the lid they all coming rushing to the top trying to get out. They have tons of energy and can jump really far for little ones. I will see if I can get some help today to get some pics. I still have a long way to go and so many tadpoles. These first ones to morph are from a small group of 70-80 tads and there are still a good amount that have yet to morph from that group. Plus another 1,000 that are a little further behind.


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## janvier

Thought I'd share a cool pic of one of my males taken by my girlfriend with the iPhone of course and through the flass


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## janvier

The little ones are doing great and getting bigger with lots yet to morph. I had a little scare tonight. I walked in the room where my animals are and heard some choking or gagging noise. It was my female in the water with two males on her back literally drowning. I scooped them up and took one of the males off her back and sat them up high on a cork tube. She acts as if she wants to lay eggs again. I can't see this being possible after laying all those eggs only two months, but there is still much to learn about this species. Even after all that happened she was back in the water with one male on her back five minutes later. There are enough rock filled pots with bamboo and other plants, drift for her to sit on and still be in position to lay eggs in the water. I've been running the rain system for two days to try and get the other female to lay but my purple female that already laid is the only one showing any breeding behavior. Now I'm paranoid and i keep checking on them. The same male has been on her back for probably a week now. He is looking all skinny and probably hasn't eaten for a while. The things we will do just to get some....lol


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## janvier

Wow didn't know it was possible but I got eggs again from the same female after she laid less than two months ago. THey are in the water now still doing their thing. I suspected she might last night but did't think it was possible to lay eggs again so soon. Last night after I rescued her from drowning and put her on a cork tube she jumped out of the cage six feet down onto the floor with two males on her back before I could close the enclosure. I picked them up and removed one of the males and put them back up high on the cork tube. Even after that she still was back in the water in five minutes and laid eggs.....lol That's my girl. I guess I have to start this all over again and my summer will be spent tending to toads and tadpoles.


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## janvier

Guess I should know if they are any good in a few days. These animals are amazing.


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## kitcolebay

Holy cow! You're definitely going to be a busy boy! Congrads! 

I was just joking a little when I mentioned before that you might have enough there for every Dendro member to each get a few. That might not be the case now...you may HAVE to give each member a couple to rehome all those beautiful babies! Lmao!

Still stunned! Absolutely amazing!

-Chris


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## TDK

janvier said:


> Guess I should know if they are any good in a few days. These animals are amazing.


Damn--here you go again.


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## janvier

least I'm all set up for it now. Just need these tads to hurry it up and get out of the water to make room....lol. May need to get another tub or two if they don't get a move on. She just released the eggs and I watched her climb back onto land. Now I need to remove the eggs. It looks like she laid around the same amount but I will get a better look when I move them.


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## janvier

Not as many eggs as two months ago, but still very cool. Here is the baby daddy. I guess persistence pays off after riding her back for a week straight.


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## billschwinn

Congrats again on the breeding. Also, if you did have surplus available if you would not mind let me know, Bill


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## janvier

So its a little bitter sweet today. My two fattest little toadlets are loosing the use of their back legs and paralysis is setting in. Iv'e been giving them repcal calcium and vitD but not every feeding because I didnt want to overdue it. I also have regular calcium and herptivite multivitamins. I have given them all of this stuff, sometimes a mix of two at once 3 times a week. I don't know what is the right amount for growing toads and if they should be getting it every feeding. Since it's the two biggest ones maybe with fast growth rate is making it worse. I don't know I just don't want it to happen with the others. It's sad I don't think there is anything I can do for these two little guys. I wonder if putting them in a small exo terra with some UVB would up their chances.


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## janvier

Hey guys

Thought I'd give an update on things. The toads are still coming out of the water and the ones that morphed are still doing well. The couple that had some back leg paralysis have regained their mobility and appear to be fine. I' upped the calcium D3 to every feeding and multi vitamins more than half the time so this may have helped. I'm no longer feeding the tads repashy. I'm going to stick with a mix of algae, spirulina and some other things for a more natural diet the rest of the way. I will try this with the new tads as well and see what difference it makes in mortality. The survival rate has increased lately so maybe the slow growers are a little stronger. When they first morph seems to be a really critical time for them. The new batch of tadpoles took some food for the first time today. She didn't lay anywhere near as many as two months ago but it looks like a good 500 or so tads. Doesn't look like a lot but I counted half of them and it looks like 500 or so, total. It's really just a bonus because I wasn't expecting her to lay again. I really would like to get the other female to lay but I should be careful what I ask for because this is lots of work. Not sure I could do this every year with such high numbers you have no life from spring through till damn near the end of the year. 500 aint bad but I must have had at least 2,000 tads from the first batch after looking at these and counting them.


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## Blue_Pumilio

Good luck! I'm about to throw mine in the breeding chamber again. I'll need to get a hold of some of your bloodlines. 



janvier said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Thought I'd give an update on things. The toads are still coming out of the water and the ones that morphed are still doing well. The couple that had some back leg paralysis have regained their mobility and appear to be fine. I' upped the calcium D3 to every feeding and multi vitamins more than half the time so this may have helped. I'm no longer feeding the tads repashy. I'm going to stick with a mix of algae, spirulina and some other things for a more natural diet the rest of the way. I will try this with the new tads as well and see what difference it makes in mortality. The survival rate has increased lately so maybe the slow growers are a little stronger. When they first morph seems to be a really critical time for them. The new batch of tadpoles took some food for the first time today. She didn't lay anywhere near as many as two months ago but it looks like a good 500 or so tads. Doesn't look like a lot but I counted half of them and it looks like 500 or so, total. It's really just a bonus because I wasn't expecting her to lay again. I really would like to get the other female to lay but I should be careful what I ask for because this is lots of work. Not sure I could do this every year with such high numbers you have no life from spring through till damn near the end of the year. 500 aint bad but I must have had at least 2,000 tads from the first batch after looking at these and counting them.


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## janvier

Here is a pic of the mom. I need to take her outside and get some really good photos of here. She is dark purple with yellow spots and my other female is light green. My friend has a group of 4.1 he is selling. If anyone is interested in working with these guys let me know and I can give you his contact info. He is not selling the female by herself, you must buy the group.


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## janvier

Here are a few pics I took today of the a group of 14 toadlets that were the first to morph. I will keep this group for myself and watch them grow and narrow the group down even further once I figure sex and start to display their final coloration and pattern. These guys grow everyday and I can see the grow in this group each morning, it's crazy. There are a few that morphed out really light golden brown but the ones in these photos are all darker, with some already getting a little green coming through. Quarter for size reference. Anyone interested in the adult group my friend is selling you can contact him through his email. [email protected]


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## janvier

*Feeding Behavior*

I just fed the oldest group of my toadlets and noticed something interesting. As I was watching them feed I kept hearing this clicking or tapping noise. I noticed one of the little ones tapping the leaf he was sitting on with the longest toes on his back feet. I then observed a couple others doing this as they were hunting. I wonder if it's some sort of lure or distraction for their prey as they ambush them. Unless it's some sort of communication with each other since they are not mature enough to vocalize yet. I don't know just a thought. They move that long single toe on each back foot really fast up and down. Anyone else seen this in amphibians? I have not observed this behavior in my adults. Amazing that something so small with little teeny tiny baby toes can make sounds I can hear.

Evian


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## Spaff

My darts do the toe-tapping all the time. I think it's believed to be a way to keep the prey items active, so they can spot them. There are a few threads on here about it with PDFs, if you're interested in learning more, do a search for toe-tapping or something similar.


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## janvier

Thanks I will check that out, I'm curious and would love to read about it. I tried to do a search when I first noticed them but not exactly an easy thing to word in a google search. Toe tapping it is....lol. I don't know much about amphibians so this behavior was very surprising to me. Cool stuff.


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## kitcolebay

Here's a list of quite a few threads... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3434402

-Chris


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## janvier

*Pedostibes Hosii toadlets available*

I have sixteen toadlets available, ten of which were my holdbacks. With the initial morph mortality rate I don't expect to have that many more available. I will not be breeding these guys next year so If you want captive bred spotted tree toads you should get them while you can. It would be nice to see others working with this species in the future. Here are some pictures of one of the babies. As they grow their colors and pattern will change till they reach adulthood. Toads are $150 each


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## janvier

Here's momma. She ranges from dark purple to light bluish purple color.


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## janvier

Some Fatties getting bigger than the quarter. I dropped the price to $125 so I can get rid of the rest and free up some space. i will give a bigger discount if someone buys five.


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## janvier

*Tadpoles*

Anybody interested in tadpoles? I have some from the second clutch, not very many but I could let them go. Not sure what's a fair price for tads $10-15 each, I don't know but i'm open to offers. Also have a group of ten CB toads I'd let go for $800 and a pair of adults for $300. Need to make some room for some other projects I have.

Thanks

Evian


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## janvier

I guess I did have a picture of that female. I can get better ones for you, if you need them since she kinda has something on her back.


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## janvier

Sold out of baby toads but the adult pair are still available. I also have 11 newly morphed toadlets doing well from the second clutch. Should be available in a couple months.


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## janvier

*Pedostibes Hosii holdbacks*

I have my six hold back toads I was planning to keep for myself so I'd have some offspring that I produced for myself. Don't plan on breeding these guys again so there's really no point in keeping more toads. Since my female laid a second clutch I'm all ready in this thing for 5 months. I probably have at least another four months to go before all the tads have morphed and toads are old enough for new homes. That's nine months of raising tadpoles and toads, ridiculous. $600 shipped for the group of six


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## janvier

Here are a couple others from the group of six holdbacks I'm letting go. Cute little guys, 4 months old and getting big.


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## janvier

Sold this group of six. I have 30 little toads doing well from the second clutch and should have some available in the next month. I only have maybe 10 tadpoles left so I'm almost done with the water.


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## janvier

I'm looking to sell my group of six Malaysian Tree Toads Pedostibes Hosii that produced offspring for me this year. I have 4 males and two females. I will include the 36x36x18 exo terra terrarium and rain setup that I house and breed them in along with 8 air stones, 8 water heaters, 50 gallon drum for water storage, water filters and tubs to raise the tadpoles in. I can also give my advice and experiences with breeding them and successfully raising tadpoles all the way to baby toads. I have learned a lot working with these first two clutches and can advise on how to get a very high survival rate. With my second clutch I have not lost any morphed toadlets. I would like someone local to take the whole setup and continue what I've started but if someone out of california is only interested in the toads contact me and we can discuss that possibility. If you want more pictures of the group and their offspring email me. I also have 10 babies that are now available for $90 each and I have another 25-30 that will be available in a month or two once they get a little bigger.

$1200 for the group, terrarium and all that is needed to produce offspring. Pictures of the terrarium in the first page of this thread.


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## janvier

*Toad Head*

What a difference three months makes. Offspring from the first clutch with offspring from second clutch on it's head.


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