# Gray patch on nose? Possible fungal disease?



## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

So recently my golden boy has gotten this semi see through gray patch on his nose, which is normally pure black. He's been soaking almost constantly, hasn't shown an interest in food, and hasn't been moving much.
I've added a picture of him, and some of his enclosure. I thought he might have been molting but it's still there after a few days, not sure an exact number.

The plants in his tank are Pilea glaucophylla, Nephrolepis exaltata, Pilea cadierei, and a Fittonia verschaffeltii
He has constant access to water, and he's the only frog in there. I have noticed that there are a few large crickets living in his tank, could one have bitten him?
The only other things in his tank are the food he missed (thus the crickets, I still need to catch them), some isopods, and springtails
































This photo is from October 21st:









And here's a photo of him before this:


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

HydeTide said:


> I have noticed that there are a few large crickets living in his tank, could one have bitten him?


It is certainly possible. 

Filling out the questions in the thread linked below will give us more info to go on. 

(Copy the questions and then answer them below the questions, please)Read before posting! Fill this out to help troubleshoot...


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)?

He's a terribilis, I brought him home on September 5th. Got him from my work, a zoo, where someone had brought him in. He was CB, they got him from an expo. He did have a small dot of fungal over his right eye, but I treated it with Banixx and it went away within a few days

2. What are your temperatures (day and night - highs and lows) and how do you measure those temperatures? Does the vivarium have any supplemental heating, and if so, what type?

High is around 75 degrees F, low is around 68 degrees F, I have a temperature probe on one side of the tank and an internal thermometer on the opposite. For supplimental, he has a small reptile heat pad on the side of his tank. The highest I set it to is the 75 degrees

3. What lighting is on the enclosure (brand, type, wattage) and does the lighting add heat to the vivarium?

The lighting is a full spectrum plant grow light, it adds some heat but that is accounted for with the thermometers and probe. It's an Abonnyc grow light and a timer

4. What is the Humidity like (percentage or guesstimate)? What type of water are you using? What is your misting procedure (automated or hand mister, how long and how often)?

Humidity I'd guess is on the higher end, I use dechlorinated water and hand mist it at least twice a day, a fine mist for about half a minute. He also has a false bottom at the tank which has about an inch of water.

5. Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top, and give details about the ventilation (how many vents, where are they positioned, how large are they).

The tank is a 22 gallon tank, about half full with substrate. He has a log hide and a second hide that is a piece of bark propped on top of it. The lid of the tank is screen, which i keep half of it covered for humidity retaining, and the other half of it is uncovered for ventilation.

6. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it? What superfine powdered supplements (brand and exact product name) are you using and are they fresh (i.e. how long has the container been open, and how is it stored)?

I give him flightless fruit flies, bean beetles, and rice flour beetles. I gave crickets and black slodier fly larvae before but he had no interest in them. I use Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3, and I had opened it around two weeks after getting him. Until then, i was using the same but without D3 since I had to wait for this to arrive. It's stored in my room in a cool and dry area close to the tank

7. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently? Tankmates / other frogs ?

No amphibian tankmates, but I did see three large crickets and there are isopods (florida fasts and tropical white) and springtails

8. Any type of behavior you would consider 'odd' ?
Constantly soaking, not moving unless he is disturbed, no interest in food.

9. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?

I handled him with clean gloves once after noticing the mark on his nose, so i could check it, and to remove anything that could have scratched him. No cleaners or such are near his tank.

10. Take pictures of EVERYTHING -- the frogs, the enclosure, the vents. Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help.

Pictures are in the original post

I really hope these help, let me know if there's anything else I can provide!


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

Small behavior update: He gets really active when I mist now. He starts hopping all over his entire tank, jumping up the walls and on top of everything. I'm trying to be careful since he seems pretty stressed.

He also occasionally opens his mouth in a motion similar to trying to eat shed but there's nothing there. Still have not seen him eat


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

In my experience, it's fairly unusual for a dart frog to sit in a dish of water for extended periods of time (I've never seen any of my frogs sitting in water cups / tadpole deposition sites except for very short periods of time to drop off tadpoles). 
This says to me that something is off with the tank design / setup / parameters . The substrate looks exceptionally dry, which combined with the sitting in water dish behaviour, could indicate that the moisture levels at the ground level are not what the frog wants. 

What your tank appears to be missing is leaf litter. A thick layer of leaf litter gives the frog a comfort place to sit and forage for food. 

There's a great caresheet on Phyllobates terribilis here on this forum:

Phyllobates terribilis


HydeTide said:


> Zoo Med Repti Calcium with D3


This is not a supplement that we recommend for user with dart frogs on this forum. It's components are not ideal for dart frogs. Read more on this here:
Supplementation -- reasons and recommendations


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

Thank you so much for your time, I've got a humidity gauge shipping in right now and just ordered some Dendrocare for the little fella. I'll look into getting some leaf litter for him too!

Gonna be picking up some of the Repashy Calcium Plus as soon as I can since it's what should be considered the first choice for them

He is occasionally doing something that looks like he's trying to swallow, but i'm not sure why. I'm hoping to get everything fixed up for him


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

Some photos of him and the tank i just took, incase there's anything else noticable:


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Another good introductory care sheet is this one: Viv 101. It might be a good idea also to peruse viv build threads (here) to get a feel for viv design considerations.

Removing much of the unnecessary substrate (to gain a little height; might swap out the LECA since wicking issues with terribilis are to be avoided) and then building in some decent climbing elements would be good, and the plants you have in there aren't going to be long term residents (looks like the fern is doing poorly, and the Neos aren't likely to do very well in the substrate). Maintaining any decent moisture balance in the viv with basically no plant mass isn't going to work well at all. A stressed frog with a questionable history and an injury/ailment needs ideal housing.

It looks like that patch is growing in size. Whether that's from suboptimal environmental conditions or some pathogen, I don't know, but getting the frog looked at by your zoo's vet would be a good idea. They might be able to make an an educated guess as to the frogs' nutritional status, too, which may be related to the skin condition and apparent failure to feed.


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

Thank you so much for getting back to me! I've scheduled an appointment with the vet and will keep a close eye on him, and i'll work on the vivarium to get it to be a better suited one for my little fella. I adore him and want the best for him, i'll also look into what plants would be better for his kind of viv. He's my #1 pirority, I don't care how it ends up looking as long as he gets what he needs


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

When you rebuild, please be sure to nix any substrate that includes perlite. If that's perlite I'm seeing in your current setup, that could very well be a contributing factor to his distress. Keep it simple and just go with ABG mix. I'm happy to see you've gotten an appointment for him.


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

The substrate I used was just ABG, the perlite was from the soil my plants have rooted in, did my best to clear out what perlite was on the surface for him. Thank you so much! His appointment is on wendesday so i'm hoping I can get it all sorted out. Also hoping to get him a bigger, better enclosure but I wanna make sure he's stable before I do anything that could stress him further


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## Vargoje3 (Oct 5, 2020)

That's an infected nose rub. See a vet if possible. Can treat with silver sulfadiazine. Here is one of mine with same condition. Frog developed nose rub. Moved to quarantine tub and treated with silver sulfadiazine. Got very skinny and thought would die but he healed up. Last photo is recent. Gained all his weight back but still has black scar tissue around his face.


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

Oh gosh, thank you! I'm glad to know what it is, his vet visit is tomorrow so I'll hopefully be able to get him everything he needs.


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## HydeTide (3 mo ago)

Unfortunate news everyone, I found my poor boy dead this morning. Don't have much else to say, I'm a complete mess over this. Thank you all for your help.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm sorry for your loss.

The update is appreciated, so that future readers can know how to handle their own similar situations.


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## aguado.botero (11 mo ago)

Sorry for your loss. It happened to me once with a terribilis. The little one was very nervous and hit the walls and that's why she got hurt. It was treated with nebulizations of cuti and traumel.


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## aguado.botero (11 mo ago)

aguado.botero said:


> Sorry for your loss. It happened to me once with a terribilis. The little one was very nervous and hit the walls and that's why she got hurt. It was treated with nebulizations of cuti and traumel.


She also lost weight and had to be hand fed.


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