# drainage layer



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

right nearly got all the stuff to start my build
do you really need a drainage layer if so how deep
thanks for any help


----------



## SoloSK71 (Dec 25, 2018)

Yes, you really do need a drainage layer. Especially if you use an automatic mister. The layer should be deep enough to trap water and prevent it from touching or sucking up into the soil. Probably 2” at least.

Solo


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

SoloSK71 said:


> Yes, you really do need a drainage layer. Especially if you use an automatic mister. The layer should be deep enough to trap water and prevent it from touching or sucking up into the soil. Probably 2” at least.
> 
> Solo


many thanks for that solo 
so got to get a bit more clay balls for the drainage layer then get started


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Or use egg crating and pvc to build the drainage layer. 

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/338937-pros-cons-egg-crate-vs-false-bottom.html



some comments 

Ed


----------



## SoloSK71 (Dec 25, 2018)

Coming from an aquarium background, one of the things I like about the drainage layer is the opportunity for anaerobic bacteria to complete the denitrification cycle. And the appearance is just nice in my opinion.

Solo


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

Yes you need one. Depth depends on hydro balls vs false bottom along with type of substrate. You want to avoid wicking.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Ed said:


> Or use egg crating and pvc to build the drainage layer.
> 
> https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/338937-pros-cons-egg-crate-vs-false-bottom.html
> 
> ...


This is what I do. Works well.


----------



## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

Black Matala filter matt.
Light end effective.

I shudder to think how heavy my vivarium would be with balls, especially with the Turface substrate.

It's stand is on casters, and I need to wheel it out of the room now and then.


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> Black Matala filter mat.
> ...
> Its stand is on casters ... to wheel it out of the room now and then.


This is what I do, for a whole room's worth of vivs. Works like a dream. Light and mobile. "Also makes moving suck a little bit less." Ha ha ha.


----------



## Neopixal (Oct 1, 2015)

False bottoms 100%, way more benefits / convenience than the bio balls or whatever else is used.


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

Putting matala under abg mix would be a bad move imo.

You do not want water touching your substrate. You might be ok with turface on top, but I def wouldn't do abg. You want separation from your substrate. Abg you need more distance due to wicking while turface you can get away with a shorter distance.


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

What I do is an eggcrate false, but I leave a little gap around the sides. I fill this gap with grow stones that I ph neutralized. Then I add window screen then turface mvp. My false bottom is roughly 2" tall with an 1" space between my substrate and water level. Super light


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

S2G said:


> What I do is an eggcrate false, but I leave a little gap around the sides. I fill this gap with grow stones that I ph neutralized. Then I add window screen then turface mvp. My false bottom is roughly 2" tall with an 1" space between my substrate and water level. Super light


 hi not been on this forum for long so some of what the American name things
I still got to learn what they would be called here in the uk 
so what are grow stones and turface mvp
sorry don't want to sound rude about this so forgive me if it seems that way


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

ds51 said:


> hi not been on this forum for long so some of what the American name things
> I still got to learn what they would be called here in the uk
> so what are grow stones and turface mvp
> sorry don't want to sound rude about this so forgive me if it seems that way


Your fine. I'm not even sure what they would be in the uk.

Grow stones are recycled glass used in hydroponics. I use gs-1
Growstone | : Sustainable products for horticulture, container gardening and outdoor living

Turface is an infield conditioner. Fire clay
https://www.turface.com/products/infield-conditioners/mvp

Below are pics. The growstones are the gray on the bottom right of the little exoterra


----------



## Captain Awesome (Jan 13, 2018)

Are either of these layers needed if you have a drilled bottom for drainage?


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

Egg crate false bottom starts like this


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

Captain Awesome said:


> Are either of these layers needed if you have a drilled bottom for drainage?


You want standing water in the bottom. IMy bottom is drilled also but to drain when it gets closer to the substrate.


----------



## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

S2G said:


> Putting matala under abg mix would be a bad move imo.
> 
> You do not want water touching your substrate. You might be ok with turface on top, but I def wouldn't do abg. You want separation from your substrate. Abg you need more distance due to wicking while turface you can get away with a shorter distance.


The black matala is very open and will not wick...and I use 2 sheets. 
Makes for a tall drainage layer that way, but also puts the top of the substrate even with the lateral black bar on the Exo.


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

JimM said:


> The black matala is very open and will not wick...and I use 2 sheets.
> Makes for a tall drainage layer that way, but also puts the top of the substrate even with the lateral black bar on the Exo.


I've used it a couple times but it just didn't perform as well as my false bottom tanks. Plus its pretty expensive. I was looking at doing a 40b with it but it was like $45 for a mat while my false bottom was $25 for everything with a lot left over. On my old tank the substrate stayed wet from the bottom when you views through the glass. I used it all the time in my fish filters

Its been around a long time.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/165602-matala-mat.html


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

S2G said:


> Your fine. I'm not even sure what they would be in the uk.
> 
> Grow stones are recycled glass used in hydroponics. I use gs-1
> Growstone | : Sustainable products for horticulture, container gardening and outdoor living
> ...


thanks for that the grow stones we call clay balls I looked up the turface its a calcined clay not come across this before 
thanks for your reply


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

sorry my brain is still asleep
must people here use clay ball
what you have in your viv is called glass chippings here
which we can get in different colours 
nice viv's btw


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

S2G said:


> You want standing water in the bottom. IMy bottom is drilled also but to drain when it gets closer to the substrate.


why do you need standing water in the bottom


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

S2G said:


> Egg crate false bottom starts like this


how high have you done this from the bottom
would like to see the finished vivarium you did this for


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

ds51 said:


> why do you need standing water in the bottom


Standing water in the bottom gives you a leg up on controlling humidity. With standing water in the bottom alone, I have read on this board that you can keep a tank at 60% humidity. This is the bottom end of the range that you want, but is a good starting point. It makes it so that you can have a bit more ventilation (which is good for most plants) while still keeping higher humidity. If you have no standing water, you need to pay a lot more attention to humidity levels in other ways. It's not impossible without standing water, but with it, it increases your margin for error.

Mark


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

ds51 said:


> how high have you done this from the bottom
> would like to see the finished vivarium you did this for


The height of my false bottoms usually is limited by how low I can get a bulkhead on the back glass. I should also say that, in order to preserve as much usable tank volume as possible, I try to minimize the height of the false bottom. If I wasn't going to do a bulkhead, I would just make sure to get at least a half or full inch between where you plan to have your water level and the bottom of the false bottom layer. It reduces the possibility of wicking. This possibility increases over time as you get increased root material down there. You don't want to cut that margin too thin or you might develop wicking eventually. This is especially a concern if you plan on using ABG or something similar as substrate. I don't worry about it quite as much because I use Turface.

Mark


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

ds51 said:


> how high have you done this from the bottom
> would like to see the finished vivarium you did this for


Im not sure the exact height. What I did was silicone 1" std pvc couplings to the bottom then place the eggcrate on that. Around 2" I'd say. I used small river rocks to make the bottom of the stream through the middle (standing water) to avoid having to raise the height.

You cant really see the bottom, but here it is a few months ago still growing in.


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

S2G said:


> Im not sure the exact height. What I did was silicone 1" std pvc couplings to the bottom then place the eggcrate on that. Around 2" I'd say. I used small river rocks to make the bottom of the stream through the middle (standing water) to avoid having to raise the height.
> 
> You cant really see the bottom, but here it is a few months ago still growing in.


many thanks for info the vivarium is looking good will look grate as time goes on I am sure


----------



## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

ds51 said:


> many thanks for info the vivarium is looking good will look grate as time goes on I am sure


You're welcome and thanks. I'm not near as talented as a lot of other members with vivarium layout, but I enjoy it.

Here's the same general concept, but by a more talented person. Notice how he used a much taller false bottom to accommodate shrimp etc.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/p...-living-room-display-tank-updated-8-19-a.html


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

S2G said:


> You're welcome and thanks. I'm not near as talented as a lot of other members with vivarium layout, but I enjoy it.
> 
> Here's the same general concept, but by a more talented person. Notice how he used a much taller false bottom to accommodate shrimp etc.
> https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/p...-living-room-display-tank-updated-8-19-a.html


well I got to try my hand at doing something yet
but as you say as long as you enjoying do it that is all that matters 
and you think it look good 
and thanks you for all your replies and info


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by S2G View Post
> Putting matala under abg mix would be a bad move imo.
> 
> ...


_Matala doesn't wick_. You don't need much of an air gap between the top of the water and the bottom of your substrate. As mentioned by someone here, with a ton of root growth you might get some water wicking up the roots if you go too short on your gap - 1 cm or less maybe? Using common sense I have always had zero problems combining Matala and ABG. 2 cm of gap is plenty, perhaps overkill.

Observing the "leave at least a full hole-diameter's worth of glass remaining between a drilled hole, and the edge of the drilled pane", I sometimes use one sheet thickness of Matala, sometimes two. Depends on the size of the bulkhead I'm using, and thus the size of the hole I had to drill.



> The height of my false bottoms usually is limited by how low I can get a bulkhead on the back glass. I should also say that, in order to preserve as much usable tank volume as possible, I try to minimize the height of the false bottom.


Yep, exactly. Put in the smallest bulkhead you can, so you can drill the smallest hole you can, as low as you can. Just use a bulkhead that's bigger than all your inlet tubes combined! A 1/2" drain allows for using a single thickness of Matala (which comes 1.5" thick), and having almost 1/2" of air gap if you use a small hole saw. Here's a BH/hole saw sizing chart:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/instructions/article/selecting-the-correct-bulkhead

Also worth noting - you can always combine media. For example one layer of Matala, plus a little bit of LECA below it. Just to get enough air gap.

Good luck, OP!


----------

