# Microgramma - light preferences?



## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

I picked up an M. heterophylla and the "Microgramma sp." from Black Jungle. How much light can these plants take? They will be going into an 18" x 18" x 24" with at least two 13 watt Jungle Dawns - although I would like to run four of them at some point. Given my lighting goals how close to the top of the viv can I put these things?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

plant them 1/2 or 2/3 way up. They will grow up and fill in the top level rather quickly


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## dendrothusiast (Sep 16, 2010)

I'd say start them both at mid to 3/4ths of the way inside the tank. I have both ferns (presuming the black jungle unknown is vacciniifolia) and both have now grown to the top of my viv almost 2 inches underneath the lights. The lighting is a couple of Direct lighting spot lights from jungle dawn.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

Thank you guys. I don't usually bleach all my viv plants, but would thee things tolerate a 5% bleach dip?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

no problem. Give them 10%


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## Caden (Jan 9, 2010)

There are some misconceptions that because they cost a little more and are somewhat hard to find they must be hard to grow and more sensitive. Its not really the case. Just give them high humidity and medium to bright light and make sure they don't stay soggy and they will be very hardy and grow quickly.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Does the bleach dip really do anything without a wetting agent?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I had a hard time with a couple of Microgramma spp. because I had them in light that was too dim. I had guessed them to be a more low-light plant, but they started to dwindle. When I moved them into brighter light they responded right away and began to grow again.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

NathanB said:


> Does the bleach dip really do anything without a wetting agent?


yes, it does.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

This is very helpful. Thank you everyone for your quick replies. I was a bit paranoid about killing my somewhat expensive ferns. 

Side note - if these are reasonably easy to grow - why the high prices? They are very cool looking plants so I don't mind paying up...but of course cheaper is always better.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

TerraFerma said:


> This is very helpful. Thank you everyone for your quick replies. I was a bit paranoid about killing my somewhat expensive ferns.
> 
> Side note - if these are reasonably easy to grow - why the high prices? They are very cool looking plants so I don't mind paying up...but of course cheaper is always better.


Not to be a wise guy, but--supply and demand. Supply: These are not the easiest, quickest plants to propagate to "market" size; Demand: Customers have been willing to pay higher prices for a (perceived) rare exotic. Were a couple of vendors to start offering these for say, $10-12, the price would level off (the only vendor I know that offers these regularly is Black Jungle). However, if there was then a steady increase in quantity demanded, vendors would raise their price in response (wish I knew a way to post the graph 

Hope this helps.


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## trendkill (Nov 5, 2012)

The microgramma.. I've had mine almost 2 months now.. same thing from Black Jungle.. also planted in an 18x18x24.. and I've had to move it a couple times. At first I had it planted right under a 13 watt jungle dawn LED unit. It did not tolerate that light well.. too bright. I moved it lower but that spot was too shady. Moved it about half way up the viv.. rested it in some nice moss.. and now it's thriving. Don't worry too much about getting it right.. it's been extremely resilient for me and tolerated my mistakes until I got it right.


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## trendkill (Nov 5, 2012)

Forgot to mention.. I'm running two of the 13 watt LED units, and I'm not really happy. I'm either going to try running 4, or supplement with florescent lighting. Anything that needs a lot of light and is planted on the tank floor isn't getting what it needs. :/


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

you need the cree xm-ls to rach that far down. If your handy at all its easy to put together your own light.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

NathanB said:


> you need the cree xm-ls to rach that far down. If your handy at all its easy to put together your own light.


I was thinking of doing just that with some stuff from Rapidled.com - was looking into a 24 led unit on the 6" x 10" heat sink. 

My only concern is not roasting the stuff that is up high in the viv.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

If you have problems, use a dimmer and slowly turn it up over a few weeks/month. They should adjust, its not near as bright as the sun.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

NathanB said:


> If you have problems, use a dimmer and slowly turn it up over a few weeks/month. They should adjust, its not near as bright as the sun.


What driver are you using for the XM-L's?


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I'm using the inventronics 120w


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

NathanB said:


> I'm using the inventronics 120w


Thanks Nathan. That must be a popular drive as it appears to be sold out everywhere.

Looks like I need one Meanwell per 8 XM-L's. I'm thinking of starting with 16 in two rows, leaving room to add a third row of 8 down the road if the 16 aren't cutting it.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I would space the 16 out into 3 rows, and use the 60 optics where you need light on the very bottom of the tank. (very front for example). You'll be happier if you place them according to your layout. I'm not using any optics, but its only a 29g tank.


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## KarmaPolice (Apr 25, 2012)

I have a clump of Microgramma H. on a jutting out cork bark round/branch in a 10g vert. It is about 2/3 the way up the tank. I have a stand in standard 12+/-watt CFL which it seems to be doing fine with in the meantime. 
However I just ordered a Jungle Dawn 7watt LED spot bulb from LYR. I'm hoping it will be sufficient for such a small tank, and will try and update when I get it next week.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I wanna see peoples PICS of their Micrograma. Especially M. percussa. An how its grown in for them.


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## Mossiss (Dec 31, 2012)

dendrothusiast said:


> I'd say start them both at mid to 3/4ths of the way inside the tank. I have both ferns (presuming the black jungle unknown is vacciniifolia) and both have now grown to the top of my viv almost 2 inches underneath the lights. The lighting is a couple of Direct lighting spot lights from jungle dawn.


You can increase bleach dip. I think they can tolerate upto 15%


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

NathanB said:


> I would space the 16 out into 3 rows, and use the 60 optics where you need light on the very bottom of the tank. (very front for example). You'll be happier if you place them according to your layout. I'm not using any optics, but its only a 29g tank.


Stopped by Rapid LED and picked up 8 XM-L's and 16 XP-G's. They said they were having lens fitting issues with one of the color temps on the XM-L (forget which) hence the XP-G's. That said the XP-L lenses that were supposed to fit, do not fit. So hold off ordering and XM-L lenses from them for a while. 

I'm guessing the XM-L's are in a shape proprietary to Rapid LED so we probably need to wait for them to come up with a new lens.


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## Mossiss (Dec 31, 2012)

TerraFerma said:


> Stopped by Rapid LED and picked up 8 XM-L's and 16 XP-G's. They said they were having lens fitting issues with one of the color temps on the XM-L (forget which) hence the XP-G's. That said the XP-L lenses that were supposed to fit, do not fit. So hold off ordering and XM-L lenses from them for a while.
> 
> I'm guessing the XM-L's are in a shape proprietary to Rapid led bulbs so we probably need to wait for them to come up with a new lens.


Ok I will wait for new lens


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

It was the XM-L Cool White LEDs that they said the lenses wouldn't fit on. However even for the Neutral Whites the lenses would only fit if the orientation of the screws and solder was such that the rectangle cut out lined up the the thing the LED rested on. Not so great IMO. 

I'm not sure if this is how the XP-G lenses are supposed to fit but it doesn't look right to me. In discussion with them now about this situation. This is me applying several pounds of pressure to it. Doesn't seem right to be, but this is my first LED build so I really wouldn't know. EDIT: I'm sure they will take care of me, just off to a difficult start with their stuff.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

For the XP-G lenses sorted...some stuff was mislabeled and I was trying to out XM-L lenses on XP-G's. I now have 16x XP-G cool whites and 8 XP-G neutral whites. I'll post a pic tonight but this thing is bright. Perhaps too bright, even when on the lowest dimmer setting.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Hows it doing? you didn't post any photos.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

NathanB said:


> Hows it doing? you didn't post any photos.


Photos...of course. One is doing just fine; the other is OK but it looked a little rough for a while. Coming back now and the reaction could have been from something not at all light related. 

Got the mister hooked up finally. Going to add a few pleurothalis and maybe a few more things on the ground and let it grow in for a while. Probably not going to do any broms in this tank so it will eventually have either Mantella's or thumbnails with a lot of artificial deposition sites. That said I may add one Skotak "skinny mini" and let it get a clump doing if I can find the right spot.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

Sorry for the blurry photos. Such is life with an iPhone 4s as your primary camera. There is an SLR in house but my Macbook Air doesn't have a memory card slot so I'm not even sure how I would get pics off of it.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Nice light, you are going to be able to do a lot of stuff in there.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks. I'm really excited to see what kind of stuff this light can get going. Wish there was a way to make it more like a proper non DIY high end fixture but the price was right and no one seems to make decent LED fixtures with the right color temp for plants at the moment. The reef ones are outrageously over priced so I wouldn't be down for that even if it did come with the right LEDs.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Did you see this? MakersLED Designer Heatsink Kit - Professional Grade - LEDGroupBuy.com
Its a lot nicer looking diy thing, doesn't cost to much more


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

NathanB said:


> Did you see this? MakersLED Designer Heatsink Kit - Professional Grade - LEDGroupBuy.com
> Its a lot nicer looking diy thing, doesn't cost to much more


Have not, but wish I did several weeks ago. Those heatsinks looks great. They also have XM-L lenses that fit the LED when its affixed with screws.


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## mitcholito (Dec 30, 2011)

pdfCrazy said:


> I wanna see peoples PICS of their Micrograma.


Here is my Microgramma dictophylla. Plant origin Guyana 2002.


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