# Tank dries out too fast - neoregelia in substrate?



## TigerSalamander (Apr 17, 2018)

I don't have frogs but I have a vivarium with bromeliads and mourning geckos. My issue is my tank dries out _extraordinarily_ fast, and in more than eight weeks, not one bromeliad put out a root when set on toothpicks on the cork backdrop with daily misting. The background is always bone dry, and while the substrate stays evenly most the leaf litter is crunchy and dry on top and twenty minutes after misting all of the plants and glass are dry again. I am not sure why my tank doesn't seem to hold humidity, it is a 20 high horizontal tank with a glass cover and a 1.5 inch screen strip along the back wall, but the soil under the leaves is moist, the clean up crew is healthy, and the geckos are just fine with a bit less humidity than frogs need so it's fine. But the bromeliads seem to be unable to root in place on the cork with how dry it gets.

I pulled one of the bromeliads out of the tank and potted it in orchid bark and potting mix in a sunny window two weeks ago and it has thoroughly rooted and pupped in that time while the "mounted" bromeliads just sat there doing nothing. So a few days ago, I pulled them off the wall, and set them on the substrate/leaf litter leaning against the wall. Roots are finally starting to grow.

Everything on the site suggests neos cannot grow in the substrate, but is that only in dart frog tanks with high humidity or will they rot out in a tank that dries quickly too? I notice neos are potted when I see them for sale at greenhouses and they seem to thrive in medium. My substrate is ABG mix with some extra crumbled rotting wood incorporated, and is sloped from 6 - 7 inches in back to two inches in front. The Neos are all at the back. There's a 2 inch drainage layer and the soil drains very quickly. 

They seem happier on the substrate than sitting high and dry on the wall.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry you are having this difficulty :-( There are few things that might be in play. First, are you keeping the central pool in the broms filled with water? As I understand it, Broms don't use their roots as much to drink as to stabilize themselves. The drinking comes from the water caught in the leaves. Also, you could try to cover some of your vent with plastic wrap to see if that helps. Finally, you haven't said anything about your lighting. Any chance the lighting is too dim (or too bright!) or of the wrong spectrum for plant growth?

Hope you get it figured out soon,

Mark


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I grow Neos mounted, and in pots with ABG or pure sphagnum, and directly in ABG substrate in dart vivs. They all do equally well, though ones directly in the substrate are too far from the lighting to color up well. I do keep the phytotelmata full of water, and fill/flush it every few days. When I mount them (on cork or, more usually, Pillbug mounts), I put some sphagnum at the root zone.

I agree with Encyclia's idea to try increased humidity through reducing ventilation for a while -- mourning geckos will tolerate that change. Potting the Neos reduces the options for placement in the viv, so I'd try other things first.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I grow Neos mounted, and in pots with ABG or pure sphagnum, and directly in ABG substrate in dart vivs. They all do equally well, though ones directly in the substrate are too far from the lighting to color up well. I do keep the phytotelmata full of water, and fill/flush it every few days. When I mount them (on cork or, more usually, Pillbug mounts), I put some sphagnum at the root zone.
> 
> I agree with Encyclia's idea to try increased humidity through reducing ventilation for a while -- mourning geckos will tolerate that change. Potting the Neos reduces the options for placement in the viv, so I'd try other things first.


Ummmm...yeah, the phytotelmata! That's what I meant!

Mark


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## TigerSalamander (Apr 17, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> Ummmm...yeah, the phytotelmata! That's what I meant!
> 
> Mark


Hi, thank you for your responses. I tried to quote both of you but don't know how. I always keep the phytotelmatas full and flush every few days. My lighting is two Jungle Dawns in an Exo fixture, and my tank is shallow and with the raised substrate, even on the "ground", the bromeliads are just a few inches under the lights. My "Red Waif" is very red, my "Fireball" x "Chiquita Linda" was very green but is slowly getting a reddish cast. Photoperiod is twelve hours on and twelve off, timed, except for when I am out of town for a couple days at a time every few weeks and then I set it to match outside day length (eight hours) because I keep a canary in the same room and they are very photosensitive during winter (when I'm home I cover him at sunset but if I'm not, the room has to get dark at the right time so the tanks shut off.)

I actually did enclose all but a one inch gap of screen with plastic wrap on a trial basis for three days about a week ago... and it worked, the tank was very humid indeed, and I saw some roots appear on my Pilea "red stem tears" and one little root on my "Chiquita Linda" bromeliad. But the humidity spike also killed all of my Armadillium isopods which I've since learned don't like it so wet (dwarf whites didn't mind though, and I saw them more) and I am shortly going to be introducing a few Narceus millipedes (from a friend who already maintains a breeding group with mourning geckos) which also need a slightly less wet environment so I decided that I couldn't leave it that damp. Before ripping off the plastic completely again, I first tried a compromise - a small vent on either side of the back about an inch and a half square. Somehow, that was enough to dry my tank out again in a couple hours, and cause the roots that had appeared to wither away! So I gave up on that idea.

The bromeliads look healthy, they just didn't have any root systems. I want them to establish, and not be dependent on toothpicks forever!

I've included photos of the vivarium. It has been set up since May, but the bromeliads were introduced more recently, and most of the plants are also newer, because my original choices were what was locally available but less suited and when I found better I replaced them. I now have "Chiquita Linda x Fireball", "Chiquita Linda" and "Red Waif" on the substrate, with "Tiger Cub" wedged in a crack in a piece of driftwood (where unlike the rest, it had already begun rooting there because that wood holds a bit of moisture) with an N. punctatissima "Yellow" and three N. liliputiana mounted to a log of rotting wood that forms a divider between the high background substrate and lower foreground. They're all elevated and don't stay soggy.

The viv also has oak leaf creeping fig, the little creeping pepperomia which is very common but I can't remember its name, a large Tillandsia and a smaller one (which I am told will never root, so they are mounted on wood with superglue- and apparently thriving!), heartleaf philodendron and pothos, a red Cryptanthus, and miniature African violets that are thriving plus a cutting of Pilea "Moon Valley", a rabbits foot fern with an enormous root system but very few fronds (it hasn't put out a new one since May). I was shying away from using pothos but I decided I want something to grow fast and provide cover for the geckos, everything else is too slow growing! Right now it's a barely rooted cutting, if it gets unmanageable, I'll cut it out later, bur right now I want so see something get bigger!

https://i.imgur.com/qA5RPuK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vW1MChg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xCHOm1L.jpg


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

Curious, quite curious.

The point about adding a little moss around the rooting zone of a mount is important. Do that, for sure. I've tried both ways, with and without, and I find the moss is helpful in terms of both speed and volume of root production.

But I'll also observe that broms just act like individuals. I mean, throw a half-dozen in a single viv, and they're all gonna do their own thing in their own sweet time. Some will be throwing roots within a week, others can sit for months, as you have experienced. I've had some go a long long time too. Now, having them all just sit there is outside my experience. 

As for the general dryness - have you tried filling up your drainage layer? Well, not quite all the way, but mostly, like 75%. The best way I found, is to sprinkle the whole substrate bed, lightly several times, waiting between sprinkles. There's quite a time lag. But once you're "there", I wonder if you'll be happier...something to chew on.

Good luck!


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## TropicalGina (Dec 18, 2018)

I mount a lot of bromeliads in trees and on rocks outside as well as grow them in the ground. Adding a little moss around the base is definitely a plus. We tie them to stuff with jute twine until they root by fastening it around the stolon (if there is one, some broms are stoloniferous and some aren;t but most of the little mini-neoregelia used in terrarium culture are). I would see how that might not be the best way in a terrarium but if you would be bothered by the look of the jute until it rooted onto the surface, but it can be removed (or left to decompose) later. A little pile of orchid bark is also something they can appreciate. I would post photos but I don't know how to post from anywhere except my computer's photo program


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

TropicalGina said:


> I mount a lot of bromeliads in trees and on rocks outside as well as grow them in the ground. Adding a little moss around the base is definitely a plus. We tie them to stuff with jute twine until they root by fastening it around the stolon (if there is one, some broms are stoloniferous and some aren;t but most of the little mini-neoregelia used in terrarium culture are). I would see how that might not be the best way in a terrarium but if you would be bothered by the look of the jute until it rooted onto the surface, but it can be removed (or left to decompose) later. A little pile of orchid bark is also something they can appreciate. I would post photos but I don't know how to post from anywhere except my computer's photo program


Here you go Gina. This is how you post pics on this forum. It is a sticky in another subforum.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/53573-tutorial-how-upload-photos-forum.html


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