# RevitaliZing dry spag. moss



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

thanks for the threads...but need to find out about the packages of compressed spag moss--somewhere I read that they had been heated (duh...never did think about how they compressed the moss)...there are two to a package. My question is will they, after rehydration start to "live" again, or are they permanently "dead" as someone posted??? If so, I'm sure I will not be the only one ticked off...


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## gardennub (Dec 10, 2011)

I think the stuff you get that is all white and compressed will stay dead, but if you get the stuff for gardening that is dark green it should start to grow eventually. But that stuff is a bit dirtier too.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

gardennub said:


> I think the stuff you get that is all white and compressed will stay dead, but if you get the stuff for gardening that is dark green it should start to grow eventually. But that stuff is a bit dirtier too.


The decorative sphagnum that is dark green is dyed. Not for vivs. Typical dry sphagnum may or may not sprout new life. That is simply a bonus if new life sprouts from it. It is not sold, nor intended to be used as a dormant, but live, moss.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Maybe I didn't explain about the moss well enough...the moss is sold in the section with pet stuff...snake, rodent, fish, frogs...it is compressed..two slabs...like the other Exo products right next to it. Naturally one would have to assume that it would rehydrate...but I read somewhere on DB that it had been heat treated so would never come "alive" again. It is not the type of moss that you'd find in the garden area of Lowes, etc. So what do people use that you see growing all over the cork backs?? How long does "it" take to green up?? Have I just wasted my time and effort???


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## 31drew31 (Nov 14, 2010)

Dried sphagnum will come back to life, but not from the dried growth but from spores. Takes about 3-4 months to see the tiny new growth. Then another year before you can actually harvest it to move around. Much easier to buy live sphagnum if that's your goal. I can post photos later if intersted.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I'd love to see some pictures


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## gardennub (Dec 10, 2011)

> The decorative sphagnum that is dark green is dyed. Not for vivs. Typical dry sphagnum may or may not sprout new life. That is simply a bonus if new life sprouts from it. It is not sold, nor intended to be used as a dormant, but live, moss.


I think we are talking about two different greens. The stuff I am talking about is def. not died, but i guess its more of a brown than green, but not that really white brown of the stuff in the pet store.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

ditto!! Has anyone taken the dormant or even "live" spagnum or other tropical mosses and used a spice grinder with a little milled spagnum or peat, and made a slurry with i.e., silicone...and "painted" it on things??? So if you get "live" spagnum or other mosses, what is the best way to use...encourage the growth of, take care of??? How much influence is there with pH and especially with the water being used to mist the vivs??? Should one use distilled water??? I know Grimm has a great thread and has used silicone, etc.--but it is impossible to pick out just how long it takes for various things to actually grow...I love mosses and it is, for me, difficult to find out useful information...I appreciate the imput and especially understanding the time expectation to see any results...


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Is this what you are talking about?: Exo Terra : Forest Moss / Tropical Terrarium Substrate


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

YES!!!!! Am so glad that you provided the link to the product...it sounds like it is only dormant, but the issue mentioned about heat is what is making me question whether it will become alive again...thank you!!!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ahh, you had said sphag so I was thinking of the stuff in gardening. That one is not actually sphagnum.
I do have a source for live sphagnum. PM me if anyone wants his info.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Doug...can you answer any other of my questions from #8 post?? Am curious about the water issue... Do you know the difference between spag. moss and peat moss?? You read these words so often in the context of substrates and backgrounds...my understanding of the difference is "just a matter of time." The peat is composted or below the spagnum...would be interested for an answer--and perhaps more advice on how to use the two different mosses and where...Thanks everyone...bet I'm not the only dummy...


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

No problem Judy. A friend gave me some to try out a few years ago. It didn't come back at all for me, broke down pretty quickly...and worst of all it smelled horrible. I wouldn't use it as a replacement for sphag, but if you can stand the smell it may be an ok addition to substrate. Maybe you could try keeping it really moist and putting it under good lighting, may come back for you, but I doubt it.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I rehydrated both packs in a 5 gallon bucket...left it overnight in my kitchen...and you ain't lyin' about the smell...I thought there was a dead animal in the bottom of it... Disappointed about your thinking that it probably won't work...after all that I used it for...hrumph.... think I could take some live moss, spin it in a spice grinder and sprinkle liberally on that perhaps-will-never-come-back-to-life moss????


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I have never ground up moss and painted it. I use what I call a shotgun method. I get live moss and rip it into little bits and pieces. I tuck them here and there in the viv and some take and some don't. I look for spots that will stay particularly moist and are well lit. If the spot looks ideal but doesn't look damp enough, I tuck some Sphagnum moss in first to hold moisture and then tuck a bit of live in.
In the past, I have used dormant, dry moss from a local greenhouse. More recently, I got a package deal of live, frog safe, moss from Manuran. I also have an eBay source for live sphagnum.
Manuran knows plants and he says to use purified water for mosses. I always use purified in my vivs anyway, to prevent mineral build ups.
I'm afraid I really can't comment too much on growth times. I just don't bother tracking growth rates, tad developement times, and such. I forget if something was planted 3 weeks ago or 3 months ago! You can see some moss growth rates commented on here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/77509-pumilos-reticulata-viv.html by looking at when the post was started and when the final moss comparison photos were posted.

Peat moss is generally used to refer to the brown, ground up, very light weight, dirt like stuff. It is partially decomposed, and holds a lot of moisture. It looks like this. Redirect Notice
Sphagnum moss, or LFS moss, is Long Fibered Sphagnum moss. It is what Peat Moss started life as. It is generally tan in color and is in bigger, more plant-like pieces. It looks like this. Redirect Notice It is often sold in a compressed block, like this. Redirect Notice
Both of these products are widely used in substrates but must be used sparingly as too much will cause a waterlogged substrate and can cause root rot, dying plants, and even foot rot in your frogs. They are both used in ABG mix but are heavily aerated with tree fern, charcoal, and orchid bark.
My favorite uses of Sphagnum are to stuff in the cracks of cork bark and cork bark mosaic backgrounds, http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/77509-pumilos-reticulata-viv.html http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76581-pumilos-75-corner-viv.html and also, as mentioned, as a backing for mosses to keep the damp. Oh, and to wrap a bit around the roots of some wall mounted plants.
Dead sphagnum moss, showing algae growth, looks like the first two pics, and live, growing sphagnum moss looks like the second two pics.
These products are both obviously, not what you meant in your initial post. That looks more like a sheet moss. There are many other types of sheet moss and live moss. I'm not qualified to comment on the different types and what works best in viv conditions.

Edit: Links that say "redirect notice" are functional.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Your post made me laugh at the frog with a definite attitude!!! Well, I decided to take the bull by the horns and took some "clean,dry,sterilized" oak & magnolia leaves, and some of the rehydrated Exo brick moss and put handfuls at a time into my food processor...interesting experiment...not sure the food processor was real happy...thought I was going to start a kitchen fire...So now I have some really small pieces of that moss with the leaves...really small...and going to smash it into various places and we shall see... I had gotten some really nice mosses from Manuran and did not to kill them...that is one reason why this thread. So do you mean distilled water??? Thanks for the peat/spag. explanation...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ha ha, yeah he does have a bit of an attitude there..."Dude! Just back off!" I prefer reverse osmosis (RO) water but distilled should be fine.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

RO water is just NOT available in my nearest market...so distilled is it...why not the spring water??? And mosses seem to grow better, at least the temperate type..on acid soil...so the whole issue can get...well, interesting....thanks everybody...


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

If you want to get sphag to grow from a dried product your best bet is AAA NZ sphag, it's also the best in general for orchids, etc. other stuff, especially the Chilean stuff, just doesn't compare.


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## 31drew31 (Nov 14, 2010)

frogparty said:


> If you want to get sphag to grow from a dried product your best bet is AAA NZ sphag, it's also the best in general for orchids, etc. other stuff, especially the Chilean stuff, just doesn't compare.




+1 to that, it's the only stuff worth using.


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## Lbacha (Sep 7, 2011)

frogparty said:


> If you want to get sphag to grow from a dried product your best bet is AAA NZ sphag, it's also the best in general for orchids, etc. other stuff, especially the Chilean stuff, just doesn't compare.


I agree on the NZ sphagnum I get mine from www.repotme.com and if you have ever got a cutting or orchid in nice moist sphagnum that is a nice light color that is probably it, it revives really easy. Only stuff i use now for my jewel orchids and for growing out aquatic mosses.

Len


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestion...where do you think we can find this moss--inquiring minds want to know!!??


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

www.calwesttropical.com, www.repotme.com or any good orchid site will have it


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

Just got 500g of AAA NZ for $24 shipped off of ebay...so much better than the chilean (don't get me started on the domestic stuff out of Wisconsin).


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## Lbacha (Sep 7, 2011)

Judy S said:


> Thanks for the suggestion...where do you think we can find this moss--inquiring minds want to know!!??


As the poster before said www.repotme.com is a great site they have tons of different net pots and more different substrates than you will ever need.

Len


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I did get some of the Chilean moss...there is a real difference in color and texture...just wish I had had this information before getting the "other" stuff....I love Michigan, but not the spag.moss...Thanks for the sites, will go and investigate...


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Judy, repotme.com is located in Maryland so shipping should be cheap and i believe you can do pick up.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Hey...thanks...I just emailed them...a couple of friends of mine are heavy into orchids...bet they'd love a roadtrip...


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

frogparty said:


> www.calwesttropical.com, rePotme Orchid Supplies - Orchid Mix - Orchid Pots - Orchid Care - Orchid Fertilizer or any good orchid site will have it


I always found "repotme" a bit overpriced on many product. In fact, I know the last time I bout spag calwest was much cheaper


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## Lbacha (Sep 7, 2011)

Hmm I checked out the calwest site and the AAAAA stuff seems interesting I like repotme because they have every type of substrate you can think of, they are a little pricy though


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Hi. I have a couple of things to say, forgive me if my post seems lecturing or overbearing, its just the way I type. First of all, Judy, what are you trying to grow moss on, and what kind of look are you going for? If its the mossy green wall kind of look, then I have had best results with blending a mixture of live tropical moss with water and dry sphagnum moss in my kitchen blender (LOL my wife is reading over my shoulder as I type and said "Who's blender???") and applying that to the cork or wood or whatever that I want the moss to grow on. I keep it very well lit and humid, and use a hand held mister on it several times a day till it is well established and wont dry out if I forget to mist for a couple days. I have found that to be the easiest way of getting the moss to grow. And I will be surprised if the exo-terra moss sprouts, I'd try to find a source of live moss, but if it does, great 

About peat moss, unless you have a plant that absolutely requires peat moss to grow, I would stay away from it. First of all, most of what is sold as peat moss is not pure peat moss, but has additives, whether that be organic matter or chemical fertiliser. I used to have a carnivorous plant collection, and bought my growing supplies from index. I used it only for plants that absolutely required it, and probably wouldnt use it now if I start growing CP's again. The harvest of peat moss is absolutely ruinous to the environment, as it is harvested from peat bogs, which form over thousands of years. It is harvested with bulldozers in many places, and the bogs are destroyed...


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Thanks for that post...like so many other suckers, have bought the spagnum moss expecting it to revive...this whole thread should be a cautionary tale to us numbnuts who did not know better.... Everyone's comments are appreciated...and this is a learning lesson for many. When you have "processed" the live and dormant moss--what do you use to "stick" it on the various things that you are hoping will develop moss spores??? And how long has it taken using your method??? I went out today and bought one bottle of spring water, and one of distilled...(I HATE the concept of buying WATER!!!--in plastic that will be around FOREVER!!!)...but am going to do a test to see whether one is better than the other...versus the well water we have here on the farm...which may be one of my problems... I bet there are a lot of people that are on the DB that share my frustration with mosses when they see such gorgeous vivs... yah, my name is Judy...and I suffer from viv envy...


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Most well water in Carroll County is very hard, so that maybe some of the problem. I have a RO/DI unit when I had saltwater tanks that I still use for my frogs. I guess try the bottled water to see if that works along with jacobi tips.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Yes...it dawned on me like a 15 w bulb on a dimmer switch that my home water might be a basic issue...but I live in the shadow of Lehigh Cement...and moss grows liberally in my lawn despite the sun...so it just seemed counter intuitive that water hardness would negatively affect propagation of mosses...ah, Mother N....she has her quirks....thanks


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Sphag in a tank needs HIGH LIGHT!!!!!!! One little bulb ain't gonna cut it


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## Lbacha (Sep 7, 2011)

frogparty said:


> Sphag in a tank needs HIGH LIGHT!!!!!!! One little bulb ain't gonna cut it


Yeah I think people forget that bogs aren't shaded at all while most tropical and aquatic mosses thrive in low light environments. 

I use uncut new Zealand sphagnum moss as a substrate to propogate aquatic moss emersed on as well as jewel orchids and trust me the only complaint I have with this method is the sphagnum will revive under twin t-8's it's ok with the jewels but I don't like it when I'm growing out mosses.

Len


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

So then the problem is how do you properly light vivs that use both??? It is an assumption, of course, but I'll bet that most people have a combination..! Good advice about the high light for spagnum...


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

You can obviously get more advanced ones from medical supply companies, but for five bucks you can get water test strip thingies from pretty much any pet store, if you were curious about your drinking water...

Anyway. I just use my hands to pick up a glob of the mixture, and spread it on. I prefer a porous surface, like tree fern or ecoweb, but cork works too. I usually do this with the tank on its back. Logistically, this means that you have to have eveything ready for the tank, since you obviously cant turn a tank on its back if you already put down substrate! You also need to have your lights ready to go, and be at a stage where you are able to mist, either by hand mister or mistking.

You need to judge for yourself how thick to lay it on, too thick and it'll slide off, especially when you mist it. Too thin, and it can dry out, which is why I like to mix dried sphagnum moss with the live moss. Also, if you are using cork, you can put more of the mixture in the corks cracks and crevices, which actually creates a pretty cool effect when it starts growing.

I actually started a viv with this method exactly two weeks ago, and the background is already lookin pretty green. In a month it'll be solid moss! Heres the link, if you were curious http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/78447-65-gallon-display-hopefully-tank.html


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

I think hardness is something they only test for in a lab setting. But if you are using well water it is likely hard.

PS do you get calcium build up from misting, or anywhere in your house?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Amazon.com: Insta-Test Hard Test Strips: Industrial & Scientific


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

jacobi said:


> Amazon.com: Insta-Test Hard Test Strips: Industrial & Scientific


I am never wrong, therefore conspiracy


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> I am never wrong, therefore conspiracy


Who said you were wrong?   

Jake


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

lol, the funny thing is I was looking for a similar product about 2 years ago, and came across nothing. d you know what type of readings they give, if it's ppm or grains per gallon?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Beats the hell out of me... I just look at the pretty colours and match them to the chart!

Jake


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

jacobi said:


> Beats the hell out of me... I just look at the pretty colours and match them to the chart!
> 
> Jake


so they don't give you an actually number value and the reading is more like "hard", "semi-hard", "soft", or some variation there of?


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Depends on the brand. But the medical ones I've used give you an approximate reading to match the colour, I'm just not sure what the values are. Its probably ppm.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

thanks for that link...will definitely get some...think that's why I may be having problems with mosses?? We DO have well water, but whatever misting I do is with a hand mister...maybe it is also the answer as to why I have other seed issues not thriving after initial germination...hmmm I know that a lot of people lust after that green effect, so this thread may be very helpful to a lot of people...any recommendations from anyone as to good links/sites on mosses and their relatives???


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