# First Froggies?



## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Hello!

I have been browsing around for a new "critter", and I really like dart frogs. So, my question is- What is a good starter-species? I think the habitat will be a 10-gallon aquarium. And, along with species-suggestions, could you attach a list of ALL needed equipment? OH, I almost forgot, do I HAVE to breed my own flies to feed them?


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## clarzoo (Jun 19, 2007)

Welcome to the forum!

You have a lot of good beginner questions. Check out the link below- they are all covered in depth. 

I just got my first frogs. Tinctorius and Leucomelas are great beginner frogs- I love them so far!

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16075


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

tincs, azureus, leucs, and auratus are all great beginner frogs. about the flies, most people do culture their own flies. you don't have to though, but it would cost a ton of money to keep buying more and more cultures. you should probably just buy fruit flie media from someone, all you hae to do is add water and flies, depending on the media. good luck


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yea, I have been looking around, and I think auratus are the ones for me, cheap, and easy to take care of.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i say get leucs, though a lot of tincs and auratus would be ok too. leucs are cheap, brighter colored, more bold, and have a beautiful call.

you will definitely want to culture your own fruit flies. i spend about $10 a month on fruit fly media, cups, etc... but to buy as many as i make individually, i'd easily spend over $100 a month.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yea, I've been asking around, and the shop where I'm getting the frogs sells fruit-fly cultures and stuff, I'll buy from there.


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

I too suggust Luecs, the are much bolder are more visible than the auratus.make sure your tank has been established for awhile before introducing the frogs you choose.


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## godsgurl377 (Dec 18, 2006)

I will put my vote in for Leucomelas. They are my first frogs, so I can't say much about other darts (yet...:lol. They are very bold and have great calls. Mine don't mind me hanging around watching them at all. Another plus, if you ever want to keep a group of darts, is that they do well in community groups. Just make sure they have enough space. Good luck and keep asking questions! :lol:


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Go for leucs, you wont regret it. Until they lay eggs like crazy, then randomly go on hiatus for awhile


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yea, I was kinda on a budget defore, but I just found out I'm getting my first job soon, so that opens up alot of possibilities.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Ok,

So what type,
Tinctorious
Luecomellas
Auratus

And what is a good substrate? I keep getting mixed-answers. Oh, I was thinking about getting pothos, and a few other plants, any reccomendations?


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

Pothos are good fast growing plants. In a ten gallon you will be doing a lot of trimming. Pothos do not require a grow light. Good for providing a lot of cover for your frogs. I would also recommend luecs for a first frog. They tend to be more forgiving and resilient than most others listed. You tend to see them out in the open more than the auratus also.


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## Almecum (Aug 3, 2007)

I will add my 2 cents as well. I would go with Lucs. The ones I did have were very hardy and would know when it was feeding time. I had put a small dish in the center of the tank and that is where I would always put the food. The power from the dusting of the flys would be all in one spot. the call is some what loud so you can actually hear it in other rooms of the house.

Spend a bit more and get a 20 gal tank you will be happy you did.
For tanks somtime you can find them on your local Craigslist and get a good deal just make sure to clean them very well with a Viniger and bleach mixture. 1/4 cup each + 1 Gal water.

Raise your own FF, there are a lot of places where you can get them Eds Fly Meat has been the best for me. You can raise them in just about any container. I have even done it in 2 and 3 liter bottles. The 3 liters are a bit better becuase they have the larger opening.

No matter what you get you will be happy with getting them. I have 3 Cobalts now and a few year ago I have Yellow backs and Lucs together in a 40 gal tall show tank. so it was not very wide but very tall.

Good luck!


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## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

Any of the species you listed would be fine. A few people mentioned groups, and leucs are known to do well in groups... but you mentioned wanting to use a 10 gallon tank. Bearing this in mind, I would suggest a pair of frogs to start with (or just one). 

I, having only kept a few species of darts myself, but can say confidently that auratus tend to be more shy than the other species mentioned, but this would make little difference in a densly-planted ten gallon (unless you are talking reticulated auratus or some of the other 'shyer' morphs, then you might not see them often, that is the case with mine). 

Tincs are super bold, and I personally really love azureus.. I mean comon.. it is a BLUE frog.. you can't go wrong with that.

So my only advise is take a look at some pics, and pick the species YOU like most. The care for all of these species is going to be pretty much the same in a 10 gallon viv.

Good luck and let us know what happens!


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yea, I'll only be getting 2, I have no desire whatsoever to deal with the dominance fights and such(which I have heard usually only happen is groups of 3+.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

It can easily happen in pairs, as well. If you want 2 tincs, consider getting a sexed/proven pair to start with.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

HEY!

Anyway, anyone know of any good care-related books? (REAL books, not "E-Books")


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Greg and Amanda at AZDR wrote one coming out later this month - check out their website under the sponsors section.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey!

I've been browsing around, and luecs seem to have a very loud call, will they ever call at night? Cuz' it'll be in my room, and I don't wanna get woken up :lol: .


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

My leucs call at night on a regular basis, but Ive never noticed it uless Im already awake, and Im a fairly light sleeper.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Ok, I'll probably be going for the auratus (I know I keep changing my mind). Anyway, it'll be a 20L with a small pond in the front-left corner. I've already bought the Egg-crate,Zip-Ties, And (4 feet) of 1.5" PVC. I'll be getting the tank soon (is 27$ good for a plain 20L?). Oh, and should I use nylon-mesh, or weed-guard for the False-bottom? I'll be using 50% of this http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind.../PET/2769277&fbc=1&parentPage=family&keepsr=1 and 50% of this-http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind.../PET/2769277&fbc=1&parentPage=family&keepsr=1 for the substrate, is this OK?


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Oh, and about how deep should my false-bottom be? I was thinking 3"?


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Ok, after talking to some people, I've decided to get a 29-gallon, but there will still be only 2 frogs (for the first few months at least).


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Anybody? Oh, and a really dumb question, is aquarium de-chlorinator OK to treat the water with?


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## Fenrir (Jul 30, 2007)

Keep in mind the height of your tank cause the substrate takes off your height very fast. A 3" false bottom in a 12" tank then 2" of soil makes the tank only 7" inches high, found that out the hard way :lol: .


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yea, thats why I went with the 29-gall, its 16" instead of 12" tall, the false bottom will be 2"+2" of substrate, so 16"-4"=12"YAYYY :lol:


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yay for more questions! What do you guys make your lids out-of, I was thinking glass? And how do I keep the sides from fogging-up? 100% humidity's gonna be rough.....


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

Yeah glass is a good top... but they dont really "fog" up... they just have some water on the sides... you can still view them but if its undesirable you can always wipe off the moisture...


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## Fenrir (Jul 30, 2007)

Make sure there is some ventilation so they can dry out every so often. Tip I learned from Marcus Breece at the daytona show. They dry out, not completely, to kill bacteria on there skin and prevent infection. He suggested a fan for say 15-30min every day in the afternoon or just a leaf under one of the screened ventilation.


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## Yidso (Mar 16, 2007)

In reality, you can get any frog you want as your first frog-that is if you do enough reasearch and reading. My first frogs were D.Lamasi (Panguana Green Leg) and i have found them to be great frogs. Good luck on your frogs.

-Yidso


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Hey!

Ok, in addition to my other questions, here's another-one for ya'-Where do I buy coco/cocos panels? And whats the differance between the 2? Oh, and guess what? The only Rep./Amphib. Dealer around here closed WITH NO WARNING!!! I called a few weeks ago, to ask if the guy would be getting auratus anytime-soon, and he said he would,in a few weeks. So, I called yesterday, and they are "no-longer open to the public", they just *deliver* live foods!!! So, where do you guys shop-online?


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## Tim (Apr 22, 2007)

check the sponsors list quit a few of them sell coco and cocos panels. I know for a fact Josh's frog farm has some as I've ordered it from him.But I'm sure quit a few others have them as well.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Sorry about all these questions, I really want to do this right... Anyway, I called the Rep. Store, and he still will order me some auratus, so that's covered. Lets see..... Here's a full-list of the things I'm gonna buy, anthing I missed?

Tank
Hood
Light
Egg-crate (white)
Gravel
Zip-Ties
Weed-block
2" PVC
Substrate (suggestions?)
Film Canisters
Petri Dishes
FF stuff
Coco Panels
Gravel
Coconut-Hut
Plants (see questions below, please)

Ok, what plants would you guys reccomend? I was thinking about pillow-moss, for ground cover (not "carpeting"), and are Home-Depot Broms OK to use? And also, what kind of climbing/creeping would work well (for the background).


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## uespe1018 (Apr 10, 2007)

Pothos does well in vivs.

creeping fig will take over a background in no time. Good luck with the construction!


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

Becareful with your broms!.... they can go into shock and then die... so... try to get one thats just starting out... you know?


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

> Becareful with your broms!.... they can go into shock and then die... so... try to get one thats just starting out... you know?


*confusion* Huh?


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## Dartluv (Dec 27, 2006)

I've heard stories of people buying plants from lowes/home depot (ect.) and them dying... If your carefull you wont have a problem.... i belive the term is transplant shock? If its a big brom and the roots are all over the place and they wont be aclimated to their new envorment.... here is the wikipedia Definition.
Transplant shock refers to the stress or damage experienced by a plant when transplanted. It can be minimized by carefully considering the weather conditions and the plant's growth cycle before moving to a new location.
So like i said.... be careful and you should be good. 
Dont let it scare you i was just warning you INCASE anything went wrong in the future


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Oh, that makes sense.

So, for substrate, I'm gonna use 50% coco-fiber And 50% fir-bark, with maybe some peat thrown in, any problems here?


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Anyone?


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Bump


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## uespe1018 (Apr 10, 2007)

http://dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16612

Sounds like it would work; Lot of different things/mixes you can use.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yet another question-

I really want to "seed" my tank with Springtails, how would I go about doing this? Just dump a whole lot in wait, a few weeks and add frogs?


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

One more-

Is it OK to just grab magnolia leaves out of my yard for the tank?


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Here is something that has really helpped me. Go to the forum section and then do searches on the topics you want to know about.

For instance. In the Food and Feeding section, searching for seeding springtails there was...
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30878&highlight=seeding+springtails

or, under Magnolia leafs...
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19548&highlight=magnolia+leafs


Hope that helps.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Ok, I have been reading around, and I keep seeing "PDF's lose _most_ of their poisons when kept in captivity" I have a 3 year-old sister, and I'm a bit worried about diseases (Besides Salmonella)... Help?

P.S. The frogs are gonna be Auratus-If that helps.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Bump


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

There should be no concerns about pdf toxin. Even in the wild, there are only three species that are dangerous. Unless you are somehow importing wild caught terebillis, I wouldn't worry. Bacteria isn't really a concern, either. Normal handwashing after working in the tanks will be fine. You are much more likely to get sick from an iguana or a red-eared slider than a pdf. Hope that eases some fears.
Scott


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Good, seeing as I _HAVE_ a Red Ear Slider :lol:


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yay!

I just ordered the AZDR book, I can't wait to get it!!!


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Yay!

I just got the AZDR book!!!

A few MORE questions-

Do Auratus like petri dishes or film-canisters more?

Is 2in. tall enough for a false-bottom?


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

Also, what bulbs/fixtures should I look for? (Like, the ones from Lowes, I'm not paying 50$ for a light).


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

2" Should be fine for drainage, although many do more.

A fixture with a 6500-6700K lamp should be ok. Stuff they sell at Lowes, Home Depot, Wall Mart, nothing fancy.

Auratus are probably a bit big for film canisters, those are usually used for thumbs. A petri dish in a coco hut should be fine.


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## NewFrog (Aug 21, 2007)

One more-

Do I need a drainage level (gravel, LECA,etc) AND a false bottom?


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