# Condensation on front glass



## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

Are there any tricks for clearing the condensation that forms on the front glass panel? It's not really a problem other than it's almost the equivalent of fogged up glasses in that it obscures a clear view of the vivarium and its inhabitants. It would be so much more enjoyable to watch if there were something nontoxic that could be applied to the glass to reduce or eliminate this fogging of the front glass panel. Other than perhaps heating the glass, is there anything that can be applied to cut down on condensation? Thanks.


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

A few months ago, I saw a Youtube personality using a static-cling type film to cover the glass on the inside, which reduced condensation. Unfortunately, it won't look quite as nice as clean glass. If the condensation really bothers you, it's one option. Another could be to place your vents in the front and have your ventilation fans blowing down through those vents from outside. When I remember to run my fans (mine turn on and off manually), this works well for me.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Fans pulling air across the glass do the trick. Circulation fans aimed directly at the front might also.


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## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

Harpspiel is right. Fans do help a great deal. I use 2 fans. One on the back left side and one on the back right side angled so the are blowing towards the front glass.









Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

In a dart frog viv with no supplemental heat, there should not be condensation on the front glass except for short periods after misting sessions (and even then, not so much). If there is, the ventilation is insufficient for the health of the frogs. The condensation is a useful tool for gauging ventilation, and so any film or substance added to the glass to eliminate the condensation from forming at dewpoint humidity -- which in a viv without supplemental heat is very close to saturation -- is a step backward from a frog husbandry point of view.

In short, the 'trick' is simply to ventilate more -- basically what previous replies suggest, but fans aren't always/usually necessary in a viv with top and bottom vents.


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## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

Since I'm using a fishtank, bottom ventilation is not an option without cutting into the glass. I rigged the top cover with lots of ventilation holes along the front 2 channels so if I can find a small blower fan that can be enclosed in a duct I can easily run active ventilation across the front panel and use the side and back panel holes as exhaust channels. I wanted to see if passive diffusion would be sufficient for ventilation air movement. I need to find a cheap fan that can be used on a low enough setting for active air movement. It would be nice to find a USB powered fan. If it can't be switched to low speed, I could always rig up a damper to control the amount of air that gets sent to the top panel channels. I just haven't been able to find a small fan for the job, at least not at the big box hardware stores. I've got lots of old fishtank air pumps that could work and maybe that's what I'm going to have to use until I'm able to find a small enough fan unit. Even a very small squirrel cage fan would work if I could find something like that. Anyone know were to find an extra small low volume fan? I'm using double wall polycarbonate greenhouse panels cut to fit into the fishtank top frame channel so it's a perfect fit. And I've drilled the vent holes so they're only on the bottom surface. So if I hook the air flow up to the first 2 channels I'll actually get a nice laminar flow straight down the front glass panel and out the back.


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## connorology (Oct 6, 2018)

I have a single computer fan I bought off of Amazon for a ~55 gallon fishtank setup I use for my frogs. It's on the top and sucks air out. The top itself is sort of DIY and not airtight and thus it pulls air in from other spots on the top. This single small computer fan (I don't remember the exact specs) is sufficient for the whole enclosure. I was getting constant condensation before installing the fan, none now. And the frogs have been doing well in it. 

I will be using substrate level vents on future setups though. The fan works ok, but having active life support is sort of annoying in the long run.


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## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

I think I just found the perfect solution to several issues. I found this ultra small 2 speed evaporative cooler with USB power supply input. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Ivation Personal Mini Air Cooler, Portable USB-Powered Desktop Evaporative Swamp Cooler Fan Humidifier with 2-Speed Fan, 5-Hour Cooling for Home, Office Desktop or Car Up to 21 Sq/Ft

Instead of using ductwork from a fan to my ventilation top cover I can use this to not only ventilated the vivarium but I can use it to cool and humidify my vivarium at night. I've read that dart frogs enjoy a temperature decrease at night. Since we maintain our home at 78°F year round or at least for 9 months of the year, they don't get decreased night temperatures. I can run this at night in the cooling mood to get a 5 to 10 degree drop over night. And since we run the AC almost yr round evaporative cooling should work well. What do you think about that idea?


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

2510 Gdstime 12V 0.08 A DC 25X25X10mm 2Pin 25mm Brushless Fan Mini Cooling | eBay These little things create the tiniest wisp of wind. I use two of them blowing into a 35g hex fish tank that houses leucs. Keeps the glass clear and tank well vented. I run then 24hrs a day and they don't dry things out too much.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

connorology said:


> I will be using substrate level vents on future setups though. The fan works ok, but having active life support is sort of annoying in the long run.


This has been my experience too. Here is how I solved the issue by drilling low vents in a fishtank viv:









too much or too little ventilation?


Hello, I just got a new glass top screen for the tank I am making a vivarium in for dart frogs. However, I noticed it had absolutely no ventilation holes in it, so I decided to make some in the plastic part of the top. I put 49 1/8 inch holes across the whole strip, but I am now wondering if I...




www.dendroboard.com





Now the ventilation is good all day, every day, even when the power is out or the fan quits or I have better things to do than clean the dust off those little tiny blades.


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## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

Here's where I run into problems. How do you run a 12 V DC fan on house current? Would you splice in a USB port to the fan? And do those USB wall adapters change house current to 12 V DC? I assume they do but I'm not positive. Also what about polarity? For DC I would imagine that it's important. But I've never cut into an old USB cable to see if it's got a black and red wires inside the outer casing.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

John J M said:


> Here's where I run into problems. How do you run a 12 V DC fan on house current? Would you splice in a USB port to the fan? And do those USB wall adapters change house current to 12 V DC? I assume they do but I'm not positive. Also what about polarity? For DC I would imagine that it's important. But I've never cut into an old USB cable to see if it's got a black and red wires inside the outer casing.


You will need a 12V DC adapter with enough amps for the fan (probably under 2, I think the fans I run take around .5). USB wall adapters for phones or iPads are usually 5V and 2-4 amps, so those won't work. Polarity will matter for a DC fan, so red is positive and black is negative, but sometimes other colors are used. Ideally wherever you purchased the fan from will have a diagram with the wiring chart as well as specify amps required to run.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

John J M said:


> I think I just found the perfect solution to several issues. I found this ultra small 2 speed evaporative cooler with USB power supply input. Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Ivation Personal Mini Air Cooler, Portable USB-Powered Desktop Evaporative Swamp Cooler Fan Humidifier with 2-Speed Fan, 5-Hour Cooling for Home, Office Desktop or Car Up to 21 Sq/Ft
> 
> Instead of using ductwork from a fan to my ventilation top cover I can use this to not only ventilated the vivarium but I can use it to cool and humidify my vivarium at night. I've read that dart frogs enjoy a temperature decrease at night. Since we maintain our home at 78°F year round or at least for 9 months of the year, they don't get decreased night temperatures. I can run this at night in the cooling mood to get a 5 to 10 degree drop over night. And since we run the AC almost yr round evaporative cooling should work well. What do you think about that idea?


If you're using this evaporative cooler, it appears to be 5V/2A, so one of those USB bricks should work. I'm not sure how you're intending to get the air from this into the tank though, and it seems like possible over-engineering to me.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

John J M said:


> Here's where I run into problems. How do you run a 12 V DC fan on house current? Would you splice in a USB port to the fan? And do those USB wall adapters change house current to 12 V DC? I assume they do but I'm not positive. Also what about polarity? For DC I would imagine that it's important. But I've never cut into an old USB cable to see if it's got a black and red wires inside the outer casing.


I just go to thrift stores and buy 12v power adaptors for electronics and cut the plug off and twist the wires together and fold them over and cover connections with heat shrink. Before I make the final connection I test the fan. If it blows the wrong way I reverse the polarity and try that. It's really simple and safe.


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## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

That's why I like the idea of the mini evaporative cooler. First it's power ready so I don't have to buy a separate power supply system. It's plug and play. And second it is probably over engineering but it's easy enough to construct the ductwork with some pvc parts and can probably be set up to accommodate a couple or several vivarium at once. And third it will accomplish several desired functions besides just ventilation.


bulbophyllum said:


> I just go to thrift stores and buy 12v power adaptors for electronics and cut the plug off and twist the wires together and fold them over and cover connections with heat shrink. Before I make the final connection I test the fan. If it blows the wrong way I reverse the polarity and try that. It's really simple and safe.


That's a great idea. I hadn't thought about thrift stores. Do they usually sell 12 V power adapters? Or do you mean just but some cheap 12 V electronic device just for the power unit? Years ago I would have been able to find one at Radio Shack. Now they're impossible to find and cost more than what you want to power them with.

Anyway, I since found out that my problem isn't the condensation per se, but rather water stain on the glass. I tried removing it with hydrogen peroxide but it looks like it's going to require something a little stronger. And a razor blade didn't do the trick either. And I'm reluctant to use anything stronger than peroxide with the frogs inside. Peroxide is safe since it just breaks down into oxygen and water. I don't know about using hydrochloric acid with the frogs in the tank, or even vinegar for that matter. Anyone know of anything frog safe that would work or should I just bite the bullet and remove the frogs?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I've had glass that became etched from water stain -- the glass itself becomes damaged. This happens often with aquariums and glass tops (I get new tops every few years), but I've had it happen with animal enclosures, too.

Theoretically it is repairable using cerium oxide on a buffing wheel, though I've not had acceptable results with this method

You could try lemon juice (acid that doesn't seem to get into the air) and see if there is any results, and if there is then pull the frogs and hit it with something harder. If you use muriatic acid, you'll be best to take the viv outside.


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## tinc2344 (Jul 23, 2008)

I use a fan from Cooler Guys on my viv that is an aquarium, They have the power supplies also so you don't have to cut anything. I believe it was about $20 for the fan and power supply. I went with an IP67 fan, if you don't it could be even cheaper. I cut a hole out in the center (tank is 3'x3') of my top and have the fan blowing in.

What do you use for your water source for the misting, not sure if I missed it or not?


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## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

Exactly, that's kinda what I was thinking too. Guess I was just hoping that someone knew of a miracle I'd not yet heard of. Although I didn't know about the cerium oxide technique so I'm going to research that a little. Thanks for that information. One area near the top seems to have cleared a bit with the peroxide so I'm hopeful that it's salvageable. With the remainder of my builds I'm going to pay more attention before hand.

As for tops, have you considered Sunlite panels at Home Depot? They're sliced bread for tops IMHO. They're double walled polycarbonate greenhouse panels so they can easily be cut to any size with a jigsaw or drilled if need be. As long as you run the ribs in the long direction, they don't sag like acrylic panels. And because they're made for greenhouses light transmission and yellowing isn't a problem. Plus they're very light weight and unbreakable!!! And because they're structural, they will
support quite a bit of weight on top. I believe they come in 2x8" panels.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

There have been discussions here in the past about the fact that polycarb contains known endocrine disruptors, so many of us are not willing to take even that very small risk with animals that are particularly sensitive to those sorts of chemicals. One less thing to worry about when the frogs won't breed.

If layering on top of screen, I cut sheets of acrylic myself and flip it when it bows (needs to be cleaned periodically anyway, so no extra maintenance). If I need a little glass top, I cut it myself out of scrap; anything with size I send out for a nice piece of tempered glass.


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## newtsrus (Jun 12, 2021)

I use a power supply similar to this -








Amazon.com: 3V - 24V 1.5A 36W Adjustable DC Power Supply Adapter Speed Control Volt Display with Variable 8 Plugs and 1 Polarity Reverse Cable Cord : Electronics


Buy 3V - 24V 1.5A 36W Adjustable DC Power Supply Adapter Speed Control Volt Display with Variable 8 Plugs and 1 Polarity Reverse Cable Cord: AC Adapters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com




.
If the adapters don't fit, just cut the wires and connect red / black

I have a couple 80mm DC fans that I can dial to any speed I want, using this - At low rpms, they are silent.
A tip - Fans with ball bearings are typically louder than plain bearing fans, in my experience.


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## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

I'll lyk about polycarbonate panels because I've been using them for yrs. Perhaps mine have sufficiently aged by now. I know that there was a plastersizer in New plastic garbage cans that would leach into the water and interfere with marine fish spawning.


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## Vanadium Cobalt (Jul 19, 2021)

This? ELUTENG 40mm Fan 12V 3 Speed 6500 RPM Max Powerful Mini Fan Portable Cooling Fan DC Computer Fan with Power Adapter for PC/Laptop/Xbox/PS4/TV Box/AV Cabint/Receiver/Router : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories


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## John J M (Jul 30, 2021)

tinc2344 said:


> What do you use for your water source for the misting, not sure if I missed it or not?


I use mainly rain water but the problem isn't from the current water source. It was on the tank from previous fish use and I had cleaned it outside prior to my build and thought it was ok until the condensation helped to bring it out more visibly.


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

John J M said:


> Are there any tricks for clearing the condensation that forms on the front glass panel? It's not really a problem other than it's almost the equivalent of fogged up glasses in that it obscures a clear view of the vivarium and its inhabitants. It would be so much more enjoyable to watch if there were something nontoxic that could be applied to the glass to reduce or eliminate this fogging of the front glass panel. Other than perhaps heating the glass, is there anything that can be applied to cut down on condensation? Thanks.


How much glass/screen do you have on the top? I make my tops 4/5 glass with the screen in the front so the front vent creates a chiming effect along the glass. I control the humidity by covering and uncovering the 1/'5 screen section. I live with condensation at times if I want to simulate a wet season but I can totally eliminate it by opening it up and just missing more for shorter periods.


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## Joshuapd (Feb 28, 2021)

John J M said:


> Are there any tricks for clearing the condensation that forms on the front glass panel? It's not really a problem other than it's almost the equivalent of fogged up glasses in that it obscures a clear view of the vivarium and its inhabitants. It would be so much more enjoyable to watch if there were something nontoxic that could be applied to the glass to reduce or eliminate this fogging of the front glass panel. Other than perhaps heating the glass, is there anything that can be applied to cut down on condensation? Thanks.


I use a magnetic algae scraper that was left over from my aquarium. Works great


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