# Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps



## davecalk

I am having to re-post this because in the initial thread it seems that several folks could not see or download two of the sections of photos that I posted and they were asking me if I could resend the thread. I sent a note to an administrator about being able to reopen the edit ability but have not heard back. Therefore I’m just going to open a new thread and start over. Hope that’s ok with everyone. That being the case I thought that I would expand a couple of areas and correct a couple of things.

Dave 

Here is the initial thread. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...tank-rear-access-making-artificial-vines.html



*Detailed Tank Journal / Making Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Making Artificial Vines / Stumps 
*
I am in the process of re-building a Tank that I have had running for almost 20 years. This tank journal will incorporate many new element that I have been researching and designing over the past couple of years. I am experimenting with a number of new things in this tank. 


*First an introduction: 
*I’m Dave Calkins. I’ve been into Frogs all my life, I have BS in Biology, and have been a part of Frognet almost since it’s inception sometime back in the 1990s. 


*Tank Innovations to include:
*1. Modify Regular Aquarium: Create a Rear Access Panel:
a. Internal Plumbing accessed from Rear
i. Internal Pump can be removed from rear for maintenance. 
ii. Valves control water flow to:
1. Drip Wall
2. Waterfall – Artesian: Water enters bottom of well with anti-siphon tube. Made from Big Box plumbing parts. ​b. External Plumbing: All external​i. Put together a portable unit inexpensive, irrigation system with timer: fits into small living room garbage can. Overflow drains back into garbage can. System Powers Misting Heads / Rain Heads
ii. Fogging system: multiple fog points within tank, entry through back of tank.​c. Sealed Glass Rear Door / Magnetically Attached to tank.
d. Rear Chase to provide for to top of tank for future access / modifications without having to tear down tank.
e. Internal Tank Computer Fan / Hidden behind wall, accessible from rear. To Clear front glass. Possible 2nd fan to dry plants​*This was my first attempt at making a Rock Wall Using Two Colors 
*









2. Create Multi-colored Foam Rocks / Water Feature – similar to Great Stuff, but colored throughout. 
a. Very Realistic Texture Possible
b. Water proof
c. Light weight
d. Color through out foam
e. Created any color you want: Black, Dark Mud Brown, Tree brown, Multi-Color Granite Rock (Grey, Burgundy, Rose) I’ve made all of these.
f. Totally inert (safe for frogs)
g. Easy to Remove / Easy to Modify: (Carves like Great Stuff)
h. Easy to sterilize
i. Use as Glue to attach waterfalls to glass, bond items together, plumbing, etc.​3. Compare to Present systems to create Rock Walls / Artificial Stumps / Branches
a. Cheaper to install than: Silicone / Great Stuff / Styrofoam / Thinset / Grout / Concrete methods 
b. Faster to install than present systems
i. 2 – 4 minute expansion time.
ii. 12 –15 minute set time before next pour can be made.
iii. 24 hour total cure time.​c. Compare to Cutting / Shaping Styrofoam, Application time for grout concrete, thinset . Then 3 – 4 weeks cure time to lower pH.​


*This is a Three Color Rock That I Have Made. 100% foam, No Paint.
*









4. New Drip Wall Material – Permanent, will not rot.
5. Simple Refugia shelf: tied to Drip Wall for springtail habitat.
6. Tank Electrical:
a. GFCI
b. 12 volt Computer fan, internal to tank / hidden
c. Misting System Power
d. Lights​7. Planting tubes w/ drain to keep roots from standing in water.
8. Tons of hide holes, hidden observation points / egg laying sites. 
9. Small Tank Size. 12” deep x 24” wide x 16” height
10. Making Artificial Vines / Stumps​

This sounds like a tall order, but the tank is over half done and I couldn’t be happier with how it is coming out. The following is my journal / tutorial. It has a ton of photos, which are saved as the smallest jpg format to save bandwidth and storage space on the DB.




*Calcium Buildup
*








I decided to rebuild a tank that I had running continually for almost 20 years. As a result it had a lot of calcium buildup that I had to remove. 


*Vinegar* 








I attempted to use soak the glass with vinegar over night. The saran wrap keeps it from evaporating.



*Vinegar Doesn't Cut It
*








I tried to blade off the calcium after letting it sit overnight. This didn't touch it. Forgot to try lemon juice. 



*Diamond Dust Buffing Compounds
*








Anyhow, after talking with some automotive guys, I went with the power method using a buffer these products. 

Another option would be to use cerium oxide.


*Buffing Glass to Remove Scratches
*








The green is a washable overhead marker marked on the front of the glass to give me an idea of what areas to buff. This method is slow, but it works. I then got the brilliant idea of experimenting with using my marble tile grinder and a buffing disk. It works great for shining up granite tile and so I figured I would try it. I did it in a spot on the back wall of the tank and couldn’t see any scratches so I tried it on the sides and front. What I didn't do was check the glass using the tank lights. Stupid. With the tank lights I can now see that I have a lot more small scratches in the glass than I had after I just did the buffing. 


Oh-well. I can't afford a new tank right now, so I buffed it with the compounds again and will live with it. 








As you can see, is vastly better than it was, but I should have quit while I was ahead.

As a precaution, I used the lacquer thinner to remove any residue that might have remained from the buffing compound.



*Drilling the Glass for the bulkhead
*Over the last couple years I have been thinking, why can't we build a tank with a removable back panel. We drill tanks all of the time, so I thought why not use my tile saw and cut open the back. I did it and it worked great. I now have access to the plumbing in back behind the rock wall, to the water in the false bottom, and to the power head if it ever needs maintenance.









Next I laid out the location of the bulkhead. Before I drilled, I made sure that the bulkhead’s location was high enough so that when the bulkhead’s 3/4 inch barbed fitting is installed; it won’t hit the tabletop.

Only then did I drill the drain. I made a ring of Plumber’s Putty, which is needed to hold the water and a $2.99 bit from harbor freight. Unlike what most people thing, there are only a couple of things that you can do to cause a tank to crack while you are drilling it. Understanding how drilling works will give you confidence that it really is an easy job.

If you know about drilling glass skip on ahead.

*Excess Heat Causes Most Glass Breakage.
*
Most people think that the primary purpose of water is to lubricate the drilling process. That is not exactly correct. If lubrication were the primary purpose of the fluid, then it would make sense to use oil to cut glass, because it is much slipperier than water, but no-one recommends the use of oil because it doesn’t transfer heat nearly as well as water does and it is actually slows the cutting process down because it is the grinding or friction between the glass and the little tiny bits diamond that actually causes the cutting. The primary purpose of water is to remove the presence of heat. Excess heat is one of the main causes of fracturing in glass. Diamond bits also don’t get dull the way that most folks think, diamonds aren’t ground off of the bit by the glass. The diamonds on the bits are so much harder than the glass itself, that the glass doesn’t stand much of a chance of grinding away the diamond. It is typically excess heat that causes the bit to get dull. The diamonds actually fall off the bit because excess heat generates micro-fractures in the binder that holds the diamond fragments onto the bit. The diamonds fracture off of the bit.
A secondary purpose of water is to cause the ground off bits of glass to be floated away from the grinding surface into a slurry or suspension of water and glass. This does lower the friction and heat generated, but is not exactly lubrication. 

All of this is why a lot of guys that drill granite countertops, myself included, will often put ice in the water dam. This way they can speed though the drilling job faster with very little impact on their diamond bits. This is not an advantage to us.

*Too Much Pressure
*The second greatest cause of glass breakage is the application of too much pressure. When people drill holes, they are used to kind of leaning on it or pushing the bit into the wood or metal trying to get the biggest bite for their buck. Glass is brittle, and if you push too much on it, it will shatter, whether you are drilling it or not. When you lean on it, even a little, you are actually putting a great deal of pressure on a very small surface area. Initially that my be ok because the pressure is dissipated through the glass, but as you get towards the end of the cut, and there is very little glass left and it doesn’t take much pressure to pop the bottom out.

*Trying to Drill Tempered Glass 
*Most small tanks are not tempered, and therefore can be easily drilled. If you attempt to drill a tempered piece of glass it will shatter into a thousand tiny pieces.​
If you want to learn how to drill glass, there are a ton of U-Tube videos showing how to do it.

Sorry for the lecture about drilling glass, but it is interesting to me.


*Cutting a Glass Tank Open in the Back
First Big Experiment. *








I have a tile wet saw, but you could borrow one, rent one (go with the 4 hour rate, it only took 10 minutes to layout and make the cuts), or buy a cheap one, $39 -$79 harbor freight. It was like cutting through butter. I would not use tape to layout the cuts. I was thinking that the tape might help keep the glass from cracking at the end of the cut, but all it did was come off and I was making my cuts blind. Use a Sharpie permanent ink pen instead. 



I did have to take the water guard off to make the cuts. Just tip the tank up, align the blade with your marks, turn on the saw. To make the cut, just slowly lower the tank onto the blade. 








This was the square that I cut out. Wear leather gloves and safety glasses, because it does product a few sharp pieces of glass, but most is just glass water / dust.


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## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Hey Guys,
Let me know if you can’t view any of the photos.
Thanks for the interest,

Dave

*Thread Continues

End Result / It Was Easier To Cut Than I Thought. 
*







Sorry the picture is blurry, but you get the idea. Because the tape was coming off with all of the water, I ended up over shooting one of my cuts. The glass is surprisingly strong, even with a big hole in it. I wasn't paying attention; I got cocky with how strong it was. I had covered the tank, forgot, and leaned on it while the real of the tank with the hole was facing up. I leaned on it heard it go tink, but even then all it did was make a hair line crack from the screwed up over cut diagonally up to the top of the tank. 




*Glass Strips Cut To Add Structural Strength To Glass Door Way
*







It was real easy to fix and strengthen. I just cut up the chunk of glass that came from the hole into strips.


*Reinforcement of Glass Opening
*







I used two ton crystal clear epoxy to bond the strips of glass at the corners and a continuous piece along the bottom. I also installed a reinforcing piece at the place of the bulkhead. The glass after it has been cut is smooth and has no sharp edges.




*Making Colored Foam 
*This leads me to the really cool thing. I have been experimented with colorizing the pourable two part expanding foam and it works better than I imagine it would. 

Over the years I have seen great stuff become a common tool in tanks as well as using solid foam sheets / concrete / grout in building back walls, but both ways are a great deal of work and both methods have many problems. I use great stuff in my work quite regularly, so I am familiar with what it can and can’t do.

I have also used the two part expanding polyurethane foam in working with model railroading and I knew that polyurethane casting resins could be colored, so it got me to thinking about whether colorizing the two part expanding foam was possible.

In my experimenting, with these products, I have found that this method is so much easier to create beautiful, realistic rocks and walls than either one of the other methods presently being used. It is so much easier than cutting foam and covering it with a concrete / grout mixture / having to cure it etc. No more great stuff tan, and then having to coati it with black silicone, and then applying bark dust, just to get it to look natural. It foams up like great stuff, can be shaped, cut, etc. After colorizing, the color is permanent and it runs completely through the foam. The foam is waterproof and is completely inert after it sets. 

I have experimented with making a bunch of different textures, and have easily added a ton of hiding holes, planting bays, a set of waterfalls and will be doing stream bed.


I didn't like all of the work involved with making something like this look good.










*
Samples of Rock Walls.

Foam Colored Rock Walls Using Masking Film / Grocery Bags*







This rock wall was the first rock wall I made. I did it by mixed two colors together, letting it expand and using Painters Masking Film to push, pinch, prod, pull and stretch the foam as it was expanding, into a rock like shape.




*Foam Colored Rock Walls Using Model Railroad Casting Molds
*







This rock was made by mixing three different colors together into a model railroad rock mold. The colors are just as they came out of the model. I have not modified their colors in any way, ie. I haven’t painted them.


I have experimented with making a ton of different colors. So far I have made very dark brown muds, light browns, light tree brown, rock wall gray & pink & brownish purple, (The last two were mixed to match the quartz gravel I will use for the gravel in the bottom of the pond.) The foam can also be painted for highlights just like the concrete mixtures used. I'm planning on using the technique to make an artificial stump. The whole thing sticks directly to the glass, but unlike silicone it comes off easily. If you don't want it in a spot, a razor blade scraper wisps it right off. The foam itself is inert when cured and I used tempera paints as the pigments for the foam (schools use tempera paints because it is safe for kids even if they eat it. The foam is color fast, I have had it in water, have had a fish in it, etc.

I have to go and pick up my daughter, but I'll be back to continue.

*Break*

I'm Back.

*Two Part Expanding Foam
*







This is the two part expanding foam. It is a closed cell, 2 pound density, polyurethane
foam. Tap is a local company to me, so no shipping charges. There are a bunch of other sources for the foam.

TAP X-30 Polyurethane Foam: TAP Plastics

I think that these guys may have by far the best prices of all of the internet or mail order places for the size that I would recommend getting, the 1/2 gallon size (2 - 1 quart cans).


AeroMarine Products- Pour Foam



I bought the 1 quart size (2 - 1 pint cans), but if I were going to buy again, I would have been better off purchasing the 1/2 gallon size (2 - 1 quart cans). Tap's 1/2 gallon prices were about the same as the mail order guy's 1/2 gallon. The reason I would get the larger size is I have been experimenting with the generating colors and textures. I have used more foam than I though I would because throughout the process of testing things out, figuring out what works and what doesn't and whether the process is safe for our frogs, I found other uses for the foam. I have used it to glue elements together, etc. I now don't think that I am going to have enough foam to complete my tank. The quart size was $28.00, but for only about $10.00 more I could have doubled the amount of material that I had to work with. Now, I will likely have to spend $28. more in order to finish the project. Yes I might have tons left over, with the 1/2 gallon, but while I have been going through the learning curve, I have been using more material. In the long run when comparing it to the other processes, I still think that this way comes out cheaper.


In researching, I did a bunch of reading about the products involved. The pour in expanding foam is the same product that is used in the marine industry (used to fill the hulls of boats so if the capsize they won’t sink), but most of the foams sold to the marine market are 3 to 5 times the amount (specialized market with more expendable income). Most of the marine places including all of the local marinas were around $100 for the 1/2 gallon size.

These are some of the sites I researched when I started this process:

Urethane Foam , Expanding Marine Polyurethane Foam

Rigid and Flexible Castable Foams | Smooth-On, Inc.

Polytech Foam Products Inc.

http://www.polytek.com/products/poly_foam.html
http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Pour_Foam/pour_foam.html


These sites had quite a bit of good information on expanding foam / rock wall casting etc.

Rigid Polyurethane Mother Molds [Archive] - Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net

Sculpture Community, Russ RuBert

Taxidermy.Net Forum - Taxidermy.Net Forum - Index

Sorry, I've got to go, kids are hungry. 
Will continue.


Break



JoshH said:


> Looks great! One of the benefits of using pourable foam over the Great Stuff is the consistency. And you can order different densities, including very hard sculpting foams. What’s the chemical composition of the dyes? That’s the only thing I'd worry about, at least the concrete tinting powders are mineral oxide based.........


That is the neat thing about this procedure. You can use almost any dry pigment or tint to colorize the foam. The tints or paints do have to be in a dry or powdered form in order to allow the reaction to take place normally. It is my understanding that if you add any type of liquid, whether water based or oil based, it will screw up the foam's ability to expand and cure properly.

*Powdered Tempera Paints
*







I initially chose to try the tempera dry paints for a couple of reasons.
1. I felt that tempera paints had the best chance of being frog safe. They are non-toxic and grade schools use them all the time because a kid can eat tempera all day long and it won’t cause a problem.
2. They are pretty cheap .(See Below)​
When I started looking for the powdered tempera paints, I ran into a little trouble. I couldn’t find a local source for them. I called all of the local craft stores / school supply stores, and only found the liquid ready to use tempera paints, I ended up having to order them from an online source. Lots of places had 1 lb. container for $4 - $6, but I was able to locate a much cheaper source at Kaplan Kolors Powder Tempera.They had the 1 lb. containers for $2.45. I purchased Black, Brown, White, Blue, Red, & Yellow to get me started. 

While waiting for the tempera to arrive, I began experimenting with a couple of mineral oxide cement tints that I had lying around. I also I tried tinting the foam with some carpenter’s chalk box chalk that I keep in my truck. I don't know the toxicity of the chalk, but each of the foams seemed to color up just as well as the tempera paints did.



*A Simple Overview of the Process for Making Colored Foam
*The foam is mixed on a 1 :1 basis, one equal of part A is mixed with one equal part B. This generates a catalytic reaction where CO2 is generated; causing the foam to expand, up to 30 times its original volume. 

To add color, you just add your pigments / tints to one part, either part A or part B. I chose to add the tints to part B, This is then mixed thoroughly to disperse the pigments throughout the entire mixture. Then when you mix the A with the tinted B you generate will now generate colored foam, I tested mixing the colored powders into the foam in several different ways, but found that it didn't make one bit of difference in the final outcome of the foam. 
18

















By mixing together several different colors in varying amounts, I found I could generate any color I wanted. 


*Important Times: Mixing / Expansion / Cure Time
*You have 20 – 30 seconds of mixing time before the foam begins to expand.
The expanding reaction starts within 45 seconds of the initial mixing. 
The Rise Time lasts for 2-3 minutes.
The Foam is starts off super sticky. 
It gradually looses its Tack or stickiness within 3 – 10 minutes.
The Foam is fully cured, ie is stable, inert, has no more reaction within 24 hours.

*Cleaning Equipment
*Immediately clean all tools used in preparation of the foam with a suitable solvent, such as Isopropyl Alcohol or Acetone. 
Once cured the foam is resistant to solvents. 




I learned the following techniques for building this panel from the model railroading community at Bragdon Enterprises - Geo Foam Instructions.


*Light Weight, Strong, Foam Support Panels

The First Experiment with creating a Colored Foam Structure*







We start with a small piece of packing bubble wrap, (purchased at Kinkos or any Office Supply Store). The bubble wrap is laid flat, bubble side up, foam is mixed (steps described later) then installed and spread out in a thin layer, fiberglass window screen is then laid into the newly poured foam, plastic saran wrap is then placed on top of all of this, and the foam is compressed to flattens the foam, making it thinner, stronger, denser and harder. After the foam sets up, the saran wrap can be pulled off. If you attempt to take it off and the foam does not want to let go of the plastic, then you attempting to remove the film too soon, the foam needs to set up a bit more.



*Second Color Added to Panel
*







Here I added a second color to test the bonding ability of one pour to the next. The Foam is supposed to cure for 15 minutes or so before attempting to pour the next color. This helps with adhesion.


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## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Geodesic Foam Panel Backside
*








This shows the backside of the panel. The expanding foam compresses the bubbles which adds strength to the panel.




I am planning on using this panel hold up the floor and to shape the flow of water under the false bottom to add more bio-filtration.











*STRONG PANEL CAN BE CUT WITH A SCISSORS
*








This panel while being thin, light, and strong can be easily cut with a scissors. Try doing that with a concrete / foam wall. 




*STARTING TO PUT TANK TOGETHER

Using Foam to Install Support Structures
*








Here I used the foam to glue the first structural elements, made of cpvc pipe, to the floor.



This next section will deal with the rear opening, installing the plumbing, & then it’s lots of experimenting with the expanding colored foam. 

*Closing The Rear Door 
*








First off I purchased several ceramic magnets, during Harbor Freight’s Dollar Days. I cut the magnets in half with my tile wet saw, and then installed them (square black spots in the four corners) with two part epoxy. The magnets will be used to hold the glass door in place.


*Door / Plumbing Valves For Drip Wall & WaterFall
*








To remove the glass door I will just slide the glass panel to the left away from the magnets. Then the glass door should then be easily tipped and removed from the tank. The glass door will need to be notched in two places, one where the foamed in power cord / air tubes for the fogger / tubes for the mister / tubes for the rain sprinkler / DC power for the computer fan / etc. all come out the back; and the other notch will be at the drain bulkhead. I’m planning on making a silicone gasket around the door by putting thin layer of Vaseline on the outer side of the tank so silicone wont stick to the tank, next by running a bead of silicone around the perimeter of glass door, and finally setting the door in place over the opening. The weight of the glass will compress the silicone some and when the silicone cures it will form a nice gasket to keep water / humidity / bugs in the tank. 

In the photo, you can see the beginning of the plumbing. 

1. The valves I found at a local salvage store for a couple of bucks. The valve on the right controls the drip wall and the valve on the left controls the flow to the waterfall. The valves are horizontally hard installed with cpvc, but vertical legs use vinyl flex tubing. This allows for some wiggle room when installing or taking things apart.
2. On the left, above the pump, I foamed in a 3/4 inch PVC pipe chase which has a 45 degree fitting at the top and bottom. This forms a transport tube or chase that runs from the open area in the back of the tank to the interior living area at top of the tank. This will allow me to run the misting line, the rain line, and an electrical power line for 12-volt movable computer fan, etc. into the tank without being seen. When everything is finished I will seal the tube with a foam plug that will keep frogs from getting into the back section. The chase will also allow me to add or change things in the future without having to tear down the tank.​
*Pump / DIY Bulkhead
*








The pump, which I found a year or so ago at a small liquidation outlet, is a Regent Aqua-Tech Powerhead (manufactured by Penguin for Walmart). If it ever needs maintenance, it can be installed or removed from the rear of the tank by unscrewing a male to female hose bib fitting (exterior water faucet hose fitting), which I purchased at Home Depot. 


I made my bulkhead from a couple of plumbing fittings (3/4 “ to 1/2” threaded male fitting inside of tank that is attached to a 3/4” - 90 degree barbed fitting on the outside of the tank, with silicone installed on both sides of glass before the bulkhead is installed). To this I added a cheap plastic valve that I found at a local salvage store. I got all parts for less than the cost of a real bulkhead, and that’s before the shipping costs would be added. 

The plastic valve is installed onto the threaded bulkhead with Teflon tape. The height of the water in the tank is easily adjusted simply by spinning the valve on the bulkhead, the higher the lip of the valve is, the higher the water level is.

I installed the valve inside of the tank so that I can have a very tight profile at the rear of the tank.

If I ever have the remove the pump for maintenance, the drain valve does need to be unscrewed from the bulkhead. To facilitate this removal, I shortened the height of the valves neck in order so that the valve can more easily spin past the pump’s outgoing line (the line that supplies water to the water feature / drip wall.) That was one of the advantages of using a plastic bodied valve; it’s a lot easier to cut than a metal valve. I also used a pvc pipe cutter to shorten the valve because it chops the pipe in two like a guillotine, rather than using a saw which could produce dust that could get down into the guts of the valve which could potentially damage its the seals. Not really a big issue considering the number of times I will actually need to turn off the valve. 


Notice the black sharpie pen line on the bottom of the tank. This is the planned location of the separation wall that is to enclose the plumbing. From the front, the wall will be the visible back of the bottom of the tank. I tested the ability to easily remove the drain valve and pump with my big hands before committing to the wall location.



*Items Used In Making Colored Foam
*








These are some of the supplies that I have used in the making of the structural elements, (waterfalls, drip walls, leaf litter trough below the drip wall, etc.) and will help me as I mix and applying of the two-part expanding foam. 

*Items:
*1. Measuring spoons, 1/4 Tsp., 1/8 Tsp (Dash), 1/16 Tsp. (Pinch), 1/32 Tsp. (smidgen) – yes these are actual spoon sizes were got at a kitchen store. It is not critical to have the small sizes, but it was nice to be able to reproduce the colors accurately. 
2. Disposable Dixie cups
3. Disposable Plastic Communion Cups. Yes, I actually raided the garbage cans after communion at church and took home as many of them as I could find. Once washed out. These worked really well, and I have done most of my batches with the smaller cups.
4. Various Plumbing Fittings. 
5. Tooth Picks
6. Mixing sticks.
7. Green Vis-à-vis Wet Erase Fine Point Pen – Teachers use the for writing on overheads at school. I used this primarily to mark the level of Part A / B that were to be mixed.
8. Plastic food Wrap / Saran Wrap / Plastic Grocery Bags /. Painter’s Masking Film. (seen in front of the zip-loc snack bags) All of these were experimented in shaping rocks / keeping the foam from sticking to other things, etc.
9. Latex Rubber Gloves (I would flip the gloves inside out and reuse the gloves many times. The foam would be hard by the time I stuck my hand inside them again.
10. Bubble Wrap – Packing / Shipping Material - purchased at Kinkos (Printing / Package Shipping type store.
11. Fiberglass Window Screen 
12. Hot Melt Glue Gun (temp. bonding of parts)
13. Card Board Strips (For spreading the foam around.)
14. Zip-loc snack bags ( For squeezing out expanding foam like one does Great Stuff from the can.​
*
Here is a sample of just a few of the colors and textures I have produced using this two part foam.











Color Prep – Mixing Part B with Pigments









Getting ready for next batch. Mixed in plastic disposable Dixie cups. Tempera added to about 1/2 oz. of part B.



QUESTION.
Do you guys prefer the larger image as I have them here or the smaller image that you can click on to view an enlarged image (like I did in the previous post? *


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## pl259

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Nice work Dave! I prefer the thumbnails. I read that you used Crystal Clear Epoxy to bond the glass reinforcement strips. Is this the 30min, 2 part stuff you find at auto supply stores? I think it's called Permapoxy. I used that for a few years to bond a thin glass strip to the inside of a vert door. I even added a fillet of epoxy and the joint still failed after a year or so. Moisture slowly creeped in and broke the bond. I think it would fine on the outside of a viv.
______________
EricG.NH


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## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*After Mixing
*








Part B mixed with pigment, but before adding to 1/2 oz. part A.



*Brown Mud Foam
*








Tank is sitting on its side. Brown Foam is mixed: When mixing, make sure that you scrape the sides with the flat part of the stirring stick, this ensures that you are getting all of the material well mixed. Now pour and spread with cardboard spreader. In this shot, the foam is still expanding. I did not cover foam with Film, just allowed it expand normally.

Notice experimenting with texture at edge the outer edge. Used the mixing stick to dab and poke at the foam. This disturbs and pops the CO2 bubbles within the foam allowing it to collapse in areas. 

The white tube is for the drip wall, which runs along the top rear and top left hand side of the tank. 



*Brown Mud Foam / Hide Holes
*








You can see the two different colors & expansion tests. Bottom color is a dark coffee brown, Upper color is a lighter muddy brown. CPVC pipe lengths were cut before mixing the foam and pushed into the foam while it was near the end of it’s expanding. The pipes were installed in two ways, some were angled slightly downward, (won’t hold water, for frog hiding spots; others were installed with a slight upward angle, to hold some water for egg laying spots. 



*Foaming behind the pump
*32








Foam poured / spread with cardboard / plastic covered foam to prevent bonding to pump / pump now installed. Hold pump in place while foam expands around pump.



*Foam / Rock Like Texture
*33








Pump removed / plastic removed. Notice how the foam has taken the shape of the pump. I did this to cradle the pump and keep it from possibly vibrating against the glass and which could act as a sounding board. While this will never be seen, also notice how the foam has taken the wrinkles from the plastic and now looks very much like a rock surface. Cool.




*Imbedding Gravel in Foam / Removing Foam From Glass
*








*On With The Next Experiment. 
*1. On the left, I dropped gravel onto the surface of the some foam as it was still expanding and therefore was still sticky. The stones now are tightly bonded to the foam. This, I think would make a great riverbed surface because unlike loose gravel which allows most of the water to flow under the surface, gravel that is bonded to the a foam stream bed will keep all of the water at the surface. This allows you to use a smaller pump, less electricity and less noise, and still have the visual effect of a good waterfall / stream. 
2. Coco fiber could also be bonded to the surface of the foam in the same manner, without the use of silicone, and with a more natural colored background.
3. On the right, I am scraping off a blob of foam with ease with no residuals, unlike what you have to do to remove silicone​.




*Building Shelf with Screen / Foam as Glue
*








Next I created a shelf using foam as a glue to attach the screen to the PVC support structure. I spot hot glued the screen to the rear wall glass first, then foam it to the glass. The I repeated the procedure to the side wall and the PVC support pipe. Notice the experimental pink color. Am trying different color combinations in hidden areas working to develop the proper formulas for my final colors.

Side note: At the attachment at the rear glass, I kept the floor about 1/4 bellow the lip of the door so that water may drain way without going over the lip. In the future I might make that gap a bit larger, 1/2 inch or so.












Now I’m laying out the rear wall where the water drains back to the pump. Remember the black sharpie line. The screen will go from the tank bottom to the floor of the shelf. This will keep any debris, and any tadpoles from getting back to the pump area.











Had to figure out how to attach the bottom wall to the shelf for gluing. Folded the screen so that it has a 1” inch surface contact with the glass, a 1” inch surface contact with the shelf and the same with the sidewall.












Started with the top connection first. Used nails to pin the wall and shelf together, held the nails to pull the wall into contact with the shelf while spot welding the two together with hot glue. Then foamed it. Repeated for the side wall and the bottom wall. Most of these foam mixed were mix using the small communion cups. 












Finished bonding the bottom screen wall to the shelf. Pressed the foam down with saran wrap to keep the bottom as flat as possible so that water doesn’t build up in pockets.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



pl259 said:


> Nice work Dave! I prefer the thumbnails. I read that you used Crystal Clear Epoxy to bond the glass reinforcement strips. Is this the 30min, 2 part stuff you find at auto supply stores? I think it's called Permapoxy. I used that for a few years to bond a thin glass strip to the inside of a vert door. I even added a fillet of epoxy and the joint still failed after a year or so. Moisture slowly creeped in and broke the bond. I think it would fine on the outside of a viv.
> ______________
> EricG.NH


Hi Eric,

Thanks,


Yes, This is a two part / two ton Epoxy. 








Supposedly, the crystal clear is more transparent then the traditional stuff. I did glue on the support glass and the magnets with this. It is good to hear that I may have to watch out if I use this in an area that isn't covered with foam. These items are underneath the foam and the foam is supposed to be waterproof as well, so hopefully I won't have a problem.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Zip-Lock Squirter - A Slow Flow Great Stuff Can
Next experiment: Building Up Texture*
I placed the tank on its side to do this. Before I started mixing my next batch, I wadded up a small ball of saran wrap over an opening in the glass. I then placed newly mixed foam into a zip-lock snack bag and cut one corner of the bag. The opening in the bag was about a quarter inch in length. Then I let the foam start to expand in the bag. As it expands, I would squeeze the foam out of the bag like a slow flow Great Stuff can. Because the foam is expanding and is getting stiffer; it can now hold its own shape. Using this I layered up around the ball of plastic. After the foam set, I then carefully pulled the wadded up ball of plastic out of the middle of the ball of mud. Again, twisting the plastic as i pulled made it easier to remove. I just created a perch where frogs can hide from each other, where they can get frisky, but with the window at the backside, I can casually observe them from out side of the tank. 








I really like the texture on the interior and the exterior of this pocket. It could also be used as a tadpole depositing site. He really does look happy sitting up there doesn't he. I can hear him calling now.

A pouch like that would also look real nice being a planter for some hanging vine. 




*Pump Input Modification

Before
*








Finished hot gluing the screen to the glass and the frame and got to thinking about the water flow issues at the end of the pump, so I modified it with a 3/4 inch threaded 90. I cut it and then threaded the 90 onto the end of the intake. This changes the flow to a more straight flow into the pump. I thought it might be a more efficient and quieter water flow into the pump.
*After*












*Hide Holes / Tadpole Sites
Next experiment.
*My goal is to incorporate a bunch of hiding places and tadpole depositing sites, Therefore I have intentionally left gaps and pockets all over. 


*Protecting the Hole So Foam Doesn't Fill The Cavity
*

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content









Next I packed into the hole a plastic grocery bag. Then I used the Zip-Lock Squirter to cover the hole with foam. Due to how fast the foam expands, I don't have pictures of the process.











After it sets up. I would remove the bag. Rather than just pulling the bag straight out, I found that it was a lot easier to remove the bag by twisting the it into a tighter wad while pulling the bag slowly out.




Here is the finished hide hole / tad site. I need to spay a little more foam over the PVC pipe, but with all of the bumps and depressions, I think it looks extremely natural.












*Drip Wall Water Management

Next design element.
*I am planning on have a drip element installed over that rear access panel. Also with all of the humidity within the tank, even if I get everything tightly sealed for the drip walls water to be channeled off to the front, I will still get condensation dripping down at the door. To deal with this I created a drip edge that juts out from the glass about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. 










To make the drip edge, I cut a piece of PVC pipe down the middle (used a utility knife rather than a saw, to lazy to go out to the truck to get a saw and the pipe was thin.) Next I placed it on a piece of aluminum foil on top of a cookie sheet. Everything went into the oven, which was set at about 200. Let soften for about 10 minutes or so. 

*Frog Projects and Kitchen Etiquette
or How to save your Butt in one easy lesson *
While heating some PVC, I once ruined a cookie sheet and caught a lot of grief when I melted a piece of PVC onto the cookie sheet. Unfortunately I didn't have a piece of aluminum foil covering the pan and I wasn't paying attention to the time. Save yourself, do it with foil. Also, it's a good idea to use the exhaust fan while heating PVC; PVC vents some nasty smelling fumes when it is hot. Also to keep the lawyers off my Butt, use leather gloves when you handle hot PVC. (Well Duh!!!) Can anyone say McDonald's Hot Coffee and a stupid jury? 

Anyway, I back to reality, I took the PVC out and held it flat until it cooled. This was then foamed to the inside lip of glass over the door.




*Grey Rock Base Color / Bark Texture Experiment.
*I created a decent grey base color for my rock with this mix. I foamed above the door and played with the texture.

Before I go on, I’ll give a few brief observations about what happens to the foam as it is disturbed during the expanding process. Different textures are created when you distress the foam at different times during the expansion process. Different distressing techniques also alter the look. You will have to play with it a bit to get a feel for it.



*Staged this shot afterwards because the expanding goes fast.
*








This was my first attempt at this technique. I mixed more foam in this batch. Don’t remember if it was 1/2 oz.of A/B or 1 oz of A/B. After the foam has expanded for a bit, but before it is done expanding, I dragged a stick across the surface of the foam. This breaks up the CO2 production from the foam. CO2 is what causes the foam to expand. As you distress / drag the surface, the surface collapses a bit thereby creating the texture. 



By dragging in a random but consistent pattern, I created a halfway decent bark pattern on my first try. Imagine this pattern in a light stippled brown with deep dark shadowed colors flooded into the crevices.












*First Experiment at a multi-colored rock texture.
*
*Preparation / Mixing Notes:
*Mixed base grey rock color into part B and mixed the rose rock color into part B. These colored parts can sit for quite some time with no resulting problems. The time issues only start when you start mixing the A parts together with the B parts. Take all of the parts and set them together at the tank. Then, when you are all ready to go, only then do you mix the A parts into the colored B parts. You have to mix the two colors very quickly so that they can be expanding at approximately the same time. It would be best if you had several people all mixing the A & colored B parts together at the same time, but even doing it by myself, I could mix the parts together just fine and still had time to pour them onto the glass surface.

I found that I got the best color mixes when I added the different colors together during the initial non-expanding time. (That is within 45 to 60 seconds of starting to mix the A / B parts together.

I would pour the two different colors onto many different areas, sometimes pouring them over and around each other. Then I took one of the mixing sticks and swirled the colors around and into each other without over stirring (you want the individual colors to be displayed, you are not trying to blend them into a completely homogenized color. I over mixed once and was not as happy with the color and look of the rock.









Now let the foam expand for a bit. Then place the plastic film onto the surface of the expansion. Then you will squeeze, push, compress the plastic into rock type shapes. After the foam stiffens up and loses it tacky sticky grip on the film, it is time to carefully remove the film. Don't be in too much of a hurry to pull the plastic, if it has not set up enough you can pull the surface off of the foam at best, at worst, the plastic film breaks and then it becomes real hard to remove and expose your nice colored rock underneath the film. Did this a couple of times when in excitement I rushed.



When I removed the film, I was shocked and amazed at how good the rock wall looked with only two colors. 








I found that the colors had mixed really well and the rock looked pretty natural. I know that making a cast using a mold can look even better, but this was super easy. Not a bad result for my first attempt.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*


*Two Color / Two Part Foam 
A Real Nice Look: No Paint Added*










It is getting late. I’m heading up to NWFF later today to see a number of you all. Haven't seen some of you for several years.

Hope you are enjoying this.
More to come.

Break to next post


*Side Bar.
*Back from NWFF. Man it sure was great seeing Brent, Tor, Dave, Erin, Todd & Christina again. It's been way too long.



*Rear separation Wall Prep / Foam
*
Next I foamed in the separating wall between the plumbing vault and the front of the tank. 

*Base Coat Foaming of Wall
*








Set the tank on its back. Covered the plumbing side of the screen with plastic film to form a backer to keep the foam imbedded with the screen.











I stuffed newspaper between the film and plumbing in order to apply pressure to hold the film tightly to the screen. 



This foaming step is done to imbed the screen with foam in order provide a good strong solid non-flexible base for the final three-color foam face to be poured. 

The initial pour or two of the screen coat I ran into problems. I found that I needed to put more pressure on the newspaper / backing film in order to push the foam back up into the screen (it would drain through the screen into pockets between the screen and film and then drain down into the plumbing bay. I should have started with more newspaper to create more pressure against the screen. As it was, I used one hand to push the film / foam up into the screen. It ended up taking a couple of pours in order fill most of the holes and gaps in the screen. This did form a decent base coat for the surface coat of rock. As the foam would expand and get thicker I could squeegee it around with cardboard to fill gaps and form a solid base.



*
First Attempt at Mixing / Pouring a Three Color Rock Surface

Next Experiment:
Setup & Pour Info for 3 Color Pour.
*








Marked and filled 6 deli cups (3 cups A / 3 cups B) per the mixing instructions on the color sheet shown earlier. Then added the pigments into the various part B cups, (Not in order: base grey cup, darker brown / purple accent color cup, rose accent color. There is no time sensitivity to adding and mixing the colors to part B.











Place the part A together with the part B counterpart so you get the coorect percentages of part A/B mixed together.











Move all cups to the top of the tank for faster / easier mixing of parts A / B, and quickest pouring onto wall. 

*Note: 
*In this first attempt, I actually think I over stirred the final batch. Too much adrenalin from the excitement of the process and from trying to pour and mix the three colors together knowing that I only had a small window of working time. I feel this rock sample came out way too homogenized in its color. It still looks good, but not by my new standards.

*Second Note: 
*With practice, I have been able to do three part color by myself and make it look great using just a wooden stirring stick and toothpicks. Using dabs, pokes, jabs, strokes and swirls in a random order I have make faux rock that would rival real rock in its natural coloration and appearance. On the other hand, it would be vastly easier to have several people mixing the different colored A/B parts together all at the same time. This would allow you a little more time to get the colors poured and interspersed in and around each other for best effect. 


*Push / Pull / Pinch / Squish Technique
*








As the foam expands, I placed Painters Film over it. I then experimented with different tightness patters of Push, Pull, Pinch, & Squish. Everything I have shown to date was done only with my bare fingers, but I am planning on adding higher definition by also shaping the plastic using Pencils or Dental Tools.


*Tight Creases / Film Problems 
*








Some of this looks pretty good, but I discovered some problems during this cast. 

When I tried to remove the Painter’s Film this time and found that the Film liked its new home a little too much. I couldn’t get that stupid stuff to peel away from the surface of the rock for love nor money. As I pulled, the foam would stick in crevices and not let go. As I continued, it ripped and shredded in various spots as I tried to remove it. You can see some of the white tags in the lower left corner and the square whitish section in the center to upper right is completely covered in film. Before I speculate about the causes, I think that I should define how I am using a couple of terms so people don’t get confused.



*Definitions of Terms
*• *Film* – Whatever plastic sheet material that you are using to create a rock shape. (Plastic Grocery Bags, Painters Masking Film, Saran Wrap are the three that I have used)

• *Rock Shape* – The gross or overall shape of the rock, ie. the bumps / ledges / ridges / holes / divots, etc. that are created by Pushing, Pulling, Pinching, Squishing the Film or squirting foam out of a zip-lock snack bag. Here is an example.










Continued...


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*• Rock Texture *– This is the basic surface texture of the rock (not what is created by Pushing / Pulling / etc). Rock Texture is the wrinkles, creases and small pits, which are created in the plastic film itself by wadding & crumpling. After unrolling the sheet, the lines end up being transferred to the foam as it expanding into the sheet. Example










I’m now looking back over many pours and am speculating as to why I had trouble removing the film from the foam on a few of different occasions. These are my thoughts…

• I have found that there seemed to be advantages and disadvantages to each of the three different types of Plastic Film that I have used during this process.

*a. Saran Wrap / Plastic Food Wrap *- This material is the strongest (it tends to stretch rather than break) and seems to have the ability to resist the sticky bonds of the foam the best of the three. On the other hand, it creases or wrinkles the least of the three; this then produces the least amount of surface texture to give the foam its rocky look. I typically use the Saran Wrap to keep one thing from sticking to another.

*b. Grocery Store Plastic Bags* - This material is the next strongest of the three. It is designed after all to be strong and tear resistant. People for some strange reason tend to get a bit grumpy every time their eggs hit the ground due to a bag being ripped open. Grocery Bags also tend to wrinkle and take surface texture very well, which means that it does a good job in making a mimicking a rocky textured surface. On the other hand using oil to make plastic bags that don’t decompose is also another negative for this product, but that’s for another forum. In my limited time doing this, I haven’t lost a pour to a Grocery bag.

*c. Painters Masking Film * - I have done most of the Push / Pinch Rock using 99 inch Masking Film (99 “ long / light weight / slight clinginess to it so that it sticks to walls and ceilings: primarily used to cover walls and keep paint / texture from getting on to another surface). It is the thinnest of the three. Due to its ability to wrinkle, I speculated that it would produce the nicest rock texture. (I haven’t actually done a side-by-side comparison of the Grocery Store bags vs. the Masking Film, so I can’t say for sure whether one actually does produce a better texture than the other.)​


*1. Too much Compression: *I found it is possible to pinch and squeeze the Film / Foam too much. I’m guessing that if you pinch and squeeze the foam together and create a very tight seam, the Painters Film is much more likely to rip and tear at the seam. I’m guessing that this is because as the foam continues to expand towards each other, the film gets compressed and pinched so tightly that when I tried to remove the film, it rips and breaks rather than pulling loose as it has on many other pours. 

*Moral of the Story.* More pinching is not always better Grasshopper. You could get slapped.



*2. Removed Film Too Soon: *As the foam cures it becomes less tacky or sticky and it also becomes stronger and less pliable. In my excitement to see what the new rock would look like, I started pulling the Painters Film away before the foam had truly setup. One of two things usually happened when I tried to peel it off too soon. 

*a. Masking Film Breaks: *Most often the 99” film would just break and shred into tiny little to pieces. When this happens, I’ve found that it was practically impossible to ever get one of the tattered ends started again and I never did get the sheet completely pulled off the foam.

*b. Foam Separates: *If I started pulling the Film off way too early, the foam itself would just rip apart, leaving one half sticking to the screen and while the other half sticking to the sheet. This can look decent because it creates a rougher texture that still looks natural, but what I really needed to do was stop and not progress with the peel. I found that the window at this stage is very small indeed. If I kept going, 9 times out of 10 I ended up at the shredding / breaking stage before I could completely remove the film. Then it was all over.

*Moral:* Have patience Weedhopper. If you see bits of foam stuck to the plastic, go back and re-count the lint in your belly button. Remember how entertaining it was to count the first time?​











*3. Covered Foam Takes Longer to Cure: *I have also noticed that foam, which is covered in plastic tends to take longer to set than does foam that is out, exposed, and is not encapsulated within a plastic film. This also led me to trying to remove the film before the foam is set.

*Moral:* Be Patient, Test areas, If it doesn’t peel off fairly easily, wait, go do something else, pick your nose, go play the tuba, go make your spouse dinner, pick her up off the floor when she faints, hey its only Macaroni and cheese right?) When you are done come back to it. If you fail, scrape it off and try again.

*Quote* “We don't grow unless we take risks. Any successful company is riddled with failures.” 
James E. Burke

*Quote*“Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered, you will never grow.”
Ronald. E. Osborn:​

*4. Masking Film Thinner / Weaker: *I think that the 99 inch Painter’s Film is quite a bit thinner then the plastic grocery store bags or the plastic food wrap and doesn’t seem to be nearly as strong as the other two. It definitely seems to rip / puncture more easily, so I think this is primarily why I had the problem. 

*Yoda:* "You are growing strong in the ways of the film my young padawan learner. Patience you must have. Do not let fear lead you to the dark side of the Concrete. And above all, use the film Luke, (the grocery bag film.) Yes, hmmm."











*5. Speculations: *The following are statements I am making are complete speculation on my part, so don’t take them as gospel truth. They may or may not have any impact on how easily the film is removed.

*a. Time installed:* I can’t tell if there is any impact as to how far along in the expansion process before placing the film and starting to squish, poke, and prod dance and finding the film wanting to permanently mate with the rock surface.

*b. Surface area:* I also speculated that crinkling the film to get more folds, creases, and wrinkles could also create more surface area and surface tension ie. More tooth or grip to the foam (not as likely), or crunching the film might weaken the film enough that it would break easier (more likely).​
*Moral: *Never, under any circumstance, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night. If you solve the problem with using the Bag, don’t go looking for more trouble. 



*Summary*
Actually, I don’t think that I have enough foam left to play with it and sort it all out. With all of the experimenting I have done so far, I may not have enough foam to finish everything that I want to and need to do with foam in the tank as it is. Money being kind of tight right now as well, I don’t think I’m going to be able to run right out get more foam to test my theories. Bummer.

At this point, I am inclined to just use the grocery bags for doing the Push / Pinch rock construction. Most folks already have grocery bags at home, which hopefully you are recycling, so you don’t have to go out and buy anything. I started off experimenting with the Painter’s Film first off because I speculated that it would provide the best Rock Texture. Most of my pours were very successful, (film pulled off / Rock looked good.) I think that if I had let things it cure longer, and didn’t over pinch it in a few spots, I don’t think I would not have run into the problem, even with using the weaker product (ahhhhh, hind sight & the scientific method, what a combination.) Using the stronger grocery bags also might have kept me from having the problem in the first place.

Are you board with all of this reading? Want to go back to looking at pretty pictures. Yah, me too.

I've spent too much time on this. I've got a few other things that I need to get done. I have wanted to share this, because i think it has the potential to completely change how we do our tanks. I know I won't go back.
Dave

More to Come...


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Question: *For those of you that have ever used Foam and Concrete, Grout, or Thinset in your Tanks, how much work would be involved in modifying / changing / removing sections? I work with Concrete, Grout, and Thinset as part of my job and I know it would take me using at least take a hammer & cold chisel, a lot of elbow grease, and maybe a replacement piece of glass before I was done.


*Next Experiment
Modifying the rock wall – Adding a Hiding Space
*








After my plumbing was all in, I realized I had extra dead space behind this wall. Given that I am trying to see how well the colored foam does in various ways, I decided to see how easy it is to modify. Used a kitchen knife to cut out where I want the wall penetration to be. The section was about 3/4 inch thick and I was able to cut through the foam / screen without a great deal of difficulty. It wasn’t “easy” cutting, I had to work at it a little, but if this were a foam / grout wall, I would not have been able to do it without powertools. The wall did not move at all while I was cutting through it.



*Opening Carved Out
*








Because I will be putting a foam rock surface over this, I carved the sides back too to make it smoother.



*Rock Cubby Hole
*








Cut Screen to make scaffolding for shape & support / Cut wider than opening so I could make cuts and fold it into a box shape that will fit the opening / Spot hot glued into opening / Installed foam behind which was backed by film & newspaper / Single color foam. 
Notice: 99” film bonded to foam. Think I tried to pull it too soon, but I don’t really know cause for sure.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*
The Floor Buffing / Stripping Wheels

The Perfect Material: Drip Walls / Back Walls / Springtail Habitat?*








For years I have wondered if there was a replacement for the natural back walls / drip walls products that are not endangered, and which will not rot away on you within a year or two. In my dream world, the product should be a natural looking background material that could be used as a planting wall and / or a drip wall; it should be unaffected by water or biological growth; and ideally it would make a good home for micro-flora and micro-fauna.

Back in my college days, I worked at the University of Wisconsin doing janitorial work. While cleaning floors I worked with a product that I now believe fits this bill. I think that the buffing & stripping pads that are used to clean and buff floors can do all these things. They are 3/4 inch thick, they are formed into a wonderful lattice that would be a great substrate for biological filtration, and by their texture I think would make a wonderful springtail habitat. They also come in naturalistic colors from black, forest green, and brown. Looks ideal, but are they safe for frogs?

I started doing some research, trying to figure out whether they would be safe in our tanks. I read through tons of MSDS sheets and manufacturers spec sheets.

*This is from 3M’s manufacturing spec sheet: *


> This product shall be made of nylon and polyester fibers and synthetic adhesives and shall not be significantly affected by water, detergents and cleaners normally used for floor maintenance. The abrasive cleaning particles shall be of synthetic material.


From my reading, I found that the nylon and polyester fiber are food safe products that are bonded with the synthetic abrasive "Silicon carbide" (a non-toxic abrasive). The biggest potential problem from a frog’s perspective is that one might get scratched during a fight if they get dragged across the surface of the back wall. Not all that big of a risk in my book. Many natural rocks pose as much or more of a threat. And many plants that are used successfully in frog tanks (they have spikes and things) pose a greater risk. I went to a janitorial supply store to judge for myself just how abrasive they are and ended up bringing home a 20 inch black stripping pad for $5.00, the most abrasive pad they had available. Its not that rough.

I used a scraper and carved the surface of my back wall of experiments flat. I cut and fit the pad to the two drip walls, removed them from the tank in order to drill them with a paddle bit so that I could mount hide holes / egg laying sites in the drip wall. Reinstalled them, mixed a little foam to glue the panels into place. 

*Presto: A drip wall that will not rot away.*









These panels cut to fit shoe boxes might make an excellent springtail culturing habitat. It might make feeding even easier. Take out a pad, bang it around in the tank to displace the food and replace. I’m going to try this too.


This site shows you what the pads look like, https://www.parish-supply.com/floorpad.htm but I found visiting a janitorial supply store to be more informative.

For those of you that want to stay natural, they also make Natural Fiber Floor Pads that might do the trick for you.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

In the previous photo you may have seen a weird looking item in the corner. It will be the topic of the next section.



*Controlling Front Glass Condensation
*
Originally my designs and plans for dealing with condensation involved using an air pump sitting on the shelf in the False Wall Cavity. The pump could be accessed from the rear if the diaphragm ever needed to be replaced. 








I was planning on creating an artificial vine made out of tubing that would snake along the front of the tank like a real vine might. The vine was to be foamed to provide a bark like covering to hide its true nature. Holes were to be drilled in various spots along the vine allowing air to blow on the glass to keep it clear of condensation. Nice Plan Right? Then I read in one of the DB archives that someone else had already tried it and it didn’t work so well. They couldn’t get the air volume needed to keep the glass clear. There were just holes of dry spots in a sea of condensation. The archives saved me a lot of work doing something that probably would not work.


*Plan B
Hidden Internal Computer Fan Ventilation
*
Several folks have used computer fans to successfully deal with condensation. All fans systems that I have seen have either had the fan external to the tank (tends to dry the tank). One guy had a cool way of doing it using an external fan and bulkheads to create a cross wind (large and bulky on the exterior (not so nice) but it did used internal tank air so the tank didn’t dry out (ideal, internal winds would also help with plant rot, plus the tank looked natural too). The other way I’ve seen it done was to have the fan visible inside of the tank.(doesn’t dry the tank, but looks less natural.) Me, I want the best of both worlds. Therefore I will be hiding the fan in the false back wall and concealing the plenum with foam. Oh yeh, plenum is just a fancy word for the pipes that move air round in an HVAC system. I haven’t decided whether to make this look like a tree or whether I'll hide it in the background. 




*How to Enclose the Fan
*
*Dollar Tree Funnels
*Went to Dollar Tree (everything in the store is a buck) and got three funnels for a $1.00. 












*Shaping Plastic With A Heat Gun
*Used a heat gun to soften the plastic of the funnel This would allow me to push the Computer fan into the plastic so that it would mold to the size and shape of the fan. Then cut at corners & heat gun to fold plastic along side of fan. Cut off the excess of plastic so funnel edges stop at fan edges (use scissors or tin snips)








Used the heat gun to soften the bottom end of the funnel. Then from the inside of the funnel push a 1 inch PVC pipe into the hot plastic. This sets the size of the opening that needs to be cut away for pipe installation. After this, cut the enclosure to the size of the pipe with a utility knife. Now the pipe should fit fairly snuggly into the enclosure. See the enclosure sitting next to the heat gun.

*Note:* I'm glad that I had three funnels. I over heated one and totally screwed it up by melting it into a shriveled mass (they are cheap plastic after all). Had to go with my last choice one (size was better with the other two.) Plus, it took a little more effort to make things work out correctly.


*Heat Gun Side Bar: *


> I Use a heat gun for a lot the shaping and molding of plastic for my vivarium setups. They are indispensable for spot heating to bend PVC pipe, CPVC pipe (coming up in posts soon) as well as for shaping funnels. 20 years ago I bought a real good heat gun for work, for almost $100. Now you can get a halfway decent one for $13 – $15 at harbor freight. The HF Heat Gun in the above photo replaced the $90 one that died a while ago. The HF tool it has done a fine job so far. Sounds like I buy a lot at Harbor Freight (I only buy tools there that I will not be using heavily, ie everyday. If you go in with that mindset you will likely be fine most of the time, but not always. I’ve had a few from them that died the same day of purchase.



*Computer Fan Enclosure
*Made the second half of the enclosure (from the third funnel) exactly like I made the first accept that this one needs to fit around the first enclosure as a water shield.








Before you seal the fan up with silicone, plug it in to a 6 - 12 volt DC power supply. You want to make sure that the fan is pushing in the right direction. I wanted the fan to blow in the upward direction while having water shed off the outside of the enclosure, (in the wrong direction water would sit in a trough of silicone, looking for a way to get inside to the computer fan. 

*Side Note:* 


> Computer fans can run on varying voltage levels. A 12 volt fan will move the most air at 12 volts, but it will also be the noisiest at that level. They easily run on less voltage and the slower that it can run while getting eliminating the condensation the quieter the fan will be.



*Fitting the 1 inch Tubing
*










*Preparing the Couplings For Tank Life
*








Shown are two 45 degree 1 inch couplings. 

1. I prepped one of the fittings for paint by sanding the interior of the visually exposed fitting so that it will hold the paint better. Blew and wiped out the sanding dust. I then spray painted the interior of that fitting black. This makes the fitting, less visible, more muted and much more natural. 

2. After the paint is dry, both fittings have a ring of silicone and a piece of screen installed and pressed down onto the fitting’s head. This keeps frogs from exposure to the fan blades.

3. When the silicone is dry, trim the screen to fit tight to the fitting.

4. The fan housing is siliconed in to prevent moisture infiltration.
​

*Entire Fan Assembly*









1. Installed and siliconed in the 1 inch legs to the housing.

2. The 90 degree fitting will not be glued. This will allow adjustments to the blowing direction.

3. The upper half will be foamed to allow it to blend and look natural. 
​

*Fan Unit is Foamed Into Place.
Upper View*










*Lower View
*


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Better Photo of Chase / Gravel Imbedded Into Colored Foam 
*

I found a better shot of the plumbing / electrical chase. This will be a permanent link from the back of the Appliance Chamber (I just came up with the name) to the tanks living area. Down the road when I install the water lines for the mister and rain heads I just feed them up the chase. If I ever have to repair anything or add anything, (a 2nd computer fan to blow on the plants for for orchids for example) its easy to do without having to tear anything apart. A soft foam plug from an old fruit fly bottle will keep the frogs out.








This is also a better photo of how well the gravel bonds to the surface of the colored foam. Bark dust sprinkled onto vines covered with foam would be another experiment I would like to try.

Dave Calkins


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Sorry guys, but I need a little feedback.
*
Since I shifted the post to a new threads which would allow me to repost the missing photos in order, I haven't heard hardly anything from anyone. Is any of this information valuable to you? This has been a bit of work to document, a labor of love yes, but if people aren't interested, I could just finish my tank and get on with it. 

I thought that the ability to make foam any color that you want was something that most folks would want to know about. 

Maybe I'm putting too much detail into it and it is ends up being a little to overwhelming to wade through. I don't know. 

I have looked at a lot of the "tutorials" on the board and else-where, and while some of them are really good, I find that most don't document how they did things very well.

Maybe I'm getting a little burned out trying to document the whole tank, from design to completion. I'll be happy to continue if you think that it is worth the effort.

So, please, if you want me to continue, please let me know.

Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*

Using Colored Foam To Install A Waterfall On Glass




Layout / Prep*
Laid out where I wanted the waterfalls to fit
The orientation of water flow









1. Had to remove a blob of foam from where a support grid will be installed.

2. Position the tank on its back / side / top (another advantage of cutting a hole in the back you can pour onto a upside down surface), That you can pour / squeegee the foam into place.

3. To get the correct foam Expansion / Strength / Consistency / etc. we need to mix equal part of A & B. Therefore, using an erasable overhead marker, I made fill marks on the table. That way I can quickly by eye mark the fill lines on the outside of the mixing containers. I use the same marker on the sides of the cup to give my proper fill lines.

4. I mark out a bunch of cups at a time to save time.



*Shaped and Installing The Support Structure
*









1. Used a heat gun to bend the CPVC so that it fit tight to the wall / glass. After heating the ends of the pipe, squeezed the ends flat with a pliers. creates more surface area to bond / fits flatter against glass / wall.

2. Covered pump with plastic.



*Foamed In screen to glass*









1. I didn’t spot glue the screen to the glass because the hot glue would show on the exterior of the tank. The colored foam showing through to the outside of the tank looks like fine.

2. Spot hot glued screen to pipe and back wall

3. Pushed plastic bags up to the screen with a layer of saran wrap between the bags and the screen.

4. Then started to foam the screen in. Took a couple of pours.

5. I did find that letting the foam start to expand before pouring it into the screen seems to help keep the foam from pouring though the screen as much.*

*


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Several People have sent me a note saying that they couldn't get any of the the photos. Turns out the some folks were not logged in, but where browsing in "guest mode". The only way to view all of the photos is to be registered and logged in. 

Hope that helps


----------



## bobberly1

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

This is a great guide! I love all of the new and interesting devices you're using, it's always beneficial to the hobby when someone takes a chance and tries something new, and succeeds. I appreciate you taking the time to make this to help us out and share this information with us.

Can you post a pic of a finished tank using that foam? Thanks again.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



bobberly1 said:


> This is a great guide! I love all of the new and interesting devices you're using, it's always beneficial to the hobby when someone takes a chance and tries something new, and succeeds. I appreciate you taking the time to make this to help us out and share this information with us.
> 
> Can you post a pic of a finished tank using that foam? Thanks again.


As I shared at the beginning this is the first tank that I have done and it is a work in process. I showed the foam to a number of friends at Northwest Frog Fest and was encouraged to post about the entire process here as quickly as I could. I have taken a hiatus on working on the tank while I journal about the process. 

*Waterfalls are totally foam rock. Not Complete Yet*


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*The Mixing Process Of Making Colored Foam
*

*Mixing Tempera Paint To Get Rock Colors*








Measuring and adding colors to the cup.



*Preping For The Pour*








Tints Mixed
Part B ready
Part A ready
I don’t mix the tints into a separate cup anymore. I found that it was just an extra step that didn’t make a difference in the final product. Now I just add the tints directly to part B.


*Mixing The Tints Into Part B*








1. After all of the tints are added to part B, 
2. Tints are completely mixed into part B.
3. Part A stands ready for final Mix.

*Note:* 


> Chemically, there is no difference between whether you mix the tints into part A or into part B. After parts A and B are completely mixed together the foam will turn out just about the same either way.
> 
> There are two reasons that I chose to mix the tints into part B rather than into part A.
> 1. Part B is a lighter colored substance than is part A. Therefore, the tints are easier to see within the mix. It allows me to make sure that the pigments are completely distributed throughout the mixture. (If you look carefully at some of the samples that I posted earlier, you can see bits of blue that didn't get completely blended.)
> 
> 2. When you are mixing part A into part B, the fact that part A is darker, means that it it is easier to see any left over part A that is still needs to be pushed into cup B.​
> In essence, I do this to try and help with quality control.



*Secondary Note:* 


> These products can sit like this, separate / tinted / ready to go, for some time. There is no detriment to the pour even if you need to wait for a half and hour while you finish any site prep such as spot gluing the screening into place, or you need to make more cardboard spreaders, or you get called down for dinner (Yes, go on, eat dinner with them. They do like to see more of you than the back of your head as you stare incessantly at the tank muttering under your breath, "Wow, that colored foam sure makes a great looking rock". See, I do know you pretty well, don't I)  Anyway, you have plenty of time so there is really no need for urgency or speed, that is until the point where you start mixing part A together with part B. Only then does the clock start ticking. Only at that point will you need to start to hustle. But on the other hand, if you don’t get all of the foam used by the time that the foam has fully kicked, so what. You are mixing small batches at a time for a lot of this stuff anyways, so it doesn’t really matter if you throw away a small cup of full of expanded foam now and then. Oh yah, I forgot, you're as cheap as I am and you want to get every last drop of foam put into place. So get over it already....





*Starting The Final Mix
Staged shot*








1. Pouring part A into part B.

2. Scrape as much tint off of the mixing stick as you can before you start pouring and scraping cup A into cup B.

3. Pour and scrape A into B as quickly as you can, before you start mixing the two. This gives you a little more working time.

4. After mixing, Pour the foam into the areas to be foamed ASAP, unless you are pouring onto an open screen. If that is the case I have found that it is best to let the foam begin expanding a little before you begin the pour. That way it doesn't drain right through the screen. 

5. Use a piece of cardboard to squeegee the foam into place, covering / filling the screen. By squeegeeing over the screen, you are forcing a bit of the foam down through the screen creating a keyway which locks the foam to the screen as well as it locks the screen into a set position.



*Check To Make Sure Waterfall Layout Still Works*








I am checking to make sure that expanding foam did not change the shape / layout needed for the plumbing.

Yup, it fits good.


(Next Section will deal with waterfall plumbing design.)




*Pour Underneath Waterfall *









Turn the tank either on its side or upside down in order to make it easier to foam the bottom of the waterfall shelf. 
No tint added to this foam because this will be cover, can I have go my formulas for the rock of this tank, these areas will be covered. 
I have noticed that I have not had an issue with film sticking to the foam in quite a while.




*Pour Of Waterfall Shelf From Above*


----------



## Dragas

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I have been diligently following along. Its great detail and good reading. I think a full tank shot could help too, kinda give us an idea of where things are taking place ?


----------



## iljjlm

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



davecalk said:


> *Sorry guys, but I need a little feedback.
> *
> Since I shifted the post to a new threads which would allow me to repost the missing photos in order, I haven't heard hardly anything from anyone. Is any of this information valuable to you? This has been a bit of work to document, a labor of love yes, but if people aren't interested, I could just finish my tank and get on with it.


Please keep posting. I read about this on Frognet and was waiting for you to post here. I think it is a really cool idea. In fact the little tidbit on finding the scrubbing pads at a janitorial suppy store help me out a lot. The HD and Lowes around my house stopped carrying these. They work like epiweb which is more expensive. Thanks.
Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*


Plumbing An Artesian Well Into A Waterfall


Plumbing From Valve to 1/2” PVC P-Trap* 








I thought that I had taken pictures of this w/o the foam covering but I can’t find them. 

From the intake valve CPVC 1/2 inch pipe comes over, 90 degree up, and then the sleeve slides into the bottom of a 1/2” Lasco 1/2” PVC P-Trap. The P-Trap is installed upside down and forms a water break that allows the water to stay in the pond. I found the P-Trap at Lowes.

None of the fittings from the valve to the P-Trap are glued in. I don’t think that the pump produces enough pressure for the fitting to get pushed out and it is nice to be able to take it apart during construction. They can be glued in later as the need arises.



*Lasco HPT 507 1/2 “ P-Trap Fitting*








I'm showing the fitting as I installed it, not as it normally is installed in the real world.

This fitting is normally used to install a P-Trap in the Air-conditioning side of an HVAC system.


Initially I had trouble finding this fitting on the web. I didn't know the manufacturers name. I did eventually end up locating it, so if you can't find the fitting locally here is a place where you could order it.
LASCO Fittings PVC & CPVC plastic pipe fittings



*Anti-siphon Modification Of P-Trap*









Due to the height of the waterfall feature, when the pump is turned off it is most likely that the pond would be siphoned completely dry, so I designed a simple anti-siphon modification to the P-Trap that will prevent this from happening. 

A small hole is drilled at an angle (so it leans towards the pond), located about 3/4 of an inch past the top knuckle of the fitting on the pond side of the fitting. An aquarium air line tube is pushed down into the hole about a 1/2 inch . Silicone seals up the connection between the air tube and the P-Trap. The top end of the tube is then installed by drilling down into the drip wall and then pushing the tube into the hole. This is done so that while the mouth of the tube is open and is exposed to the air, thus the tube's opening is hidden within the drip wall. That way exploring frogs can't try to crawl down into the tube, can't end up getting stuck, can't end up dying in the tube, can't end up plugging the tube, and thus nulify the anti-siphon feature.

If the air tube is installed properly you will not see water running out of the air tube while the pump is running. It doesn’t really matter whether water does get pumped out of the air tube though. What is important is that air gets sucked back into the P-Trap when the pump is turned off. As water drains back down to the pump it creates a suction. The open air line breaks the siphoning suction, allowing the pond to stay full.



*Making Tight Radius Bends In CPVC Tubing w/o Kinking The Pipe
*This is the section of plumbing that connects the P-Trap to the bottom of the pond / waterfall.

There are a couple things that I needed to do order to bend the cpvc tube without kinking the tube and thereby constricting the flow of water out of the tube.

Cut a section of cpvc pipe.
Tape the bottom of the tube with duct tape
Fill the tube with course sand.
Tape the top of the sand filled tube.
Start by heating the cpvcc tubing near the end of the tube.
As the tube softens start bending to your desired shape.
Repeat steps 5 – 6 working your way along until the bend is complete.
Remove the tape and empty out the sand.










*How to create the flared mouth of the pond.*

Heat the end of the tube until it becomes soft.
I used the handle of a pair of scissors to flair the pipe, reheating as needed.
I then sanded, cleaned and painted water inlet black. 
Installed silicone and install window screen to close up the mouth of the well. (No tads swimming to the pump.


Now because I didn’t glue the fittings at the valve, I can easily remove the plumbing so that I can continue working on the wall between the Appliance Chamber and the living area at the front without interference from the waterfall's plumbing.


----------



## AzureFrog

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Dave, please keep documenting and posting! I am too new, to vivs and frogs, to give you feedback, but I am learning a lot and can't wait to see it finished.

Please keep it up! 

Peace
Shawn


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



iljjlm said:


> Please keep posting. I read about this on Frognet and was waiting for you to post here. I think it is a really cool idea. In fact the little tidbit on finding the scrubbing pads at a janitorial suppy store help me out a lot. The HD and Lowes around my house stopped carrying these. They work like epiweb which is more expensive. Thanks.
> Dave


That's funny, I first started using the buffing / striping pads as scrubby pads at work a couple of years ago. I found an unused one at Goodwill, bought it, cut it up into small scrubby pads, and have been buying them whole and cutting them ever since. It cut the cost of my cleaning scrubbies tremendously. I hadn't put two and two together yet to think about whether they would do well as a background or to figure out if they would be safe for frogs until recently. 

Have you used the buffing pads for backgrounds before?


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I knew I had taken this photo. Problem is, I found it in iPhoto's trash.




*Overall view of the waterfall's plumbing system.*











They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Wish I would have found it before I posted.

Oh-well.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

In nosing around the iPhoto trash can, I found the one other photo that I had wanted to add to one of the posts. This is to show what can happen when you aren't careful when you are heating thin plastic.


*The Melted Funnel Trick*









I have always believed that you can learn as much from your mistakes as you can from your successes.

Dave


----------



## iljjlm

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Dave, I have not used it yet. I ended up buying some epiweb for a 100gal vert tank that I am building. Like I said earlier, the HD and Lowes were not carrying the pads anymore. Wish I waited just a couple of more days. I still need some more so I will get some from a janitorial supply store. Here is a link showing what you can do with the epiweb/scrubbing pads. Pretty amazing stuff. My latest growing place - The Orchid Source - Orchid Forum 
Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



Dragas said:


> I have been diligently following along. Its great detail and good reading. I think a full tank shot could help too, kinda give us an idea of where things are taking place ?


Sure thing.

*Full Tank Shot
*











*Design Elements of a Tank and In Nature*

One of the thing that I dislike when I see a lot of tanks is the lack of three dimensionality. So often they are a rear flat slab, a bottom slab and a few bumps sticking out here and there in the form of a branch / log etc.

Even some folks that make really nice looking rock walls seem to forget that rock walls are not flat slabs, they often jut out into a space cutting off the visual areas of one side of the tank to the other. I am hoping to create a bit of that in this tank. You can't see that much yet. Much of my time has been experimenting with the coloring of the foam and how to get elements of texture into the "stone". Because my time has been on the learning how to work with the colorized foam, my focus hasn't been as much on where I want to be going with the tank's shape and design.

You can get a bit of the sense of where I would like to be going with how the waterfalls seem to hang off of the bare glass giving the impression that the world extends and continues on past what you can see on the side of the glass. Hopefully when I am done I can bring this out more clearly. I like the idea of having a stump stick out into the space, creating different worlds from one side to the other. Frogs are much happier when they can't see each other all of the time. They are much more active when they feel they have to explore in order to be on top of things. Ok maybe I'm anthropomorphizing a bit, but only a bit. It also gives them a more secure feeling, if they can't see you all of the time, then you and the outside world aren't as threatening. They can feel more at home and cozy if they can't see each other all of the time too.


Hope That Makes Sense

Dave


----------



## dopederson

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Dave,

This journal is great. You have done a nice job of detailing your adventures into this new technique. I understand that journaling this process is the least fun part about creating a new tank. I applaud the patience you have shown in stopping to photograph each step during construction. I am very interested in this new technique using the colored foams as it will change the way I do things in the future. I also want to thank you for linking us to the other forum regarding the Epiweb viv. I have been using that product for over a year, struggling to get good growth using it. I think that user is on to something great.

Please continue this journal as it is very helpful. I am getting ready to move out to the northwest to start my medical residency; but I am also currently planning my return to frogging. I am planning on ordering a really nice front opening tank that will be 
48"L x 36"T x 18"D. I will probably try my hand at your new technique so the more info you can give us the better

thanks 
daniel


----------



## froggsong

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I began following this from Vivarium Forum, and I must say, I believe that this will revolutionalize the hobby. I greatly appreciate the care you have given to documenting the process. 

I never thought to color it, but I have toyed with the idea of using the two part foams, and now I really wish I had bought two part foam instead of cans of great stuff. I have a very large project planned, and being able to color the foam would make things so much easier, and less expensive in the long run. 

I did some molding of the GS the last time I worked with it, but I didn't think to use grocery bags. Have you tried using crinkled wax paper, or do you think that will work? I use wax paper with my drop in BGs, to keep it from expanding through and sticking to the table, and it peels off pretty well. I'm not sure if it would peel off as well after being crinkled, but you never know...

I think I'm going to try molding some GS with coco fiber on top with the plastic bag and see how it turns out. I think that the plastic bag will keep the GS from expanding too much and cracking the layer of coco fiber.

Can't wait to see more of your progress.


----------



## IN2DEEP

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Neat sculpture you have there. Have you figured out how to get a flat finish on the foam? I've been mixing powder tempra into Gorilla Glue, but hate the shiny finish. I've got a tip for you, playing cards make great, cheap squeegees and a 60mL syringe helps for "precise" applications. -Please keep on documenting your progress!


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



dopederson said:


> Dave,
> This journal is great. You have done a nice job of detailing your adventures into this new technique. I understand that journaling this process is the least fun part about creating a new tank. ....



Thanks Daniel. That is true. Building it is a lot more fun than writing about it. Documenting it is just plain hard work.




> Please continue this journal as it is very helpful. I am getting ready to move out to the northwest to start my medical residency; but I am also currently planning my return to frogging.
> thanks
> daniel


Cool. (I'm so 60s.) Where will you be moving too? There are a bunch of excellent froggers in the NW.


Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



froggsong said:


> I began following this from Vivarium Forum, and I must say, I believe that this will revolutionalize the hobby. I greatly appreciate the care you have given to documenting the process.



That was the same feeling that I had when I actually started playing with the the process and saw the results. I really didn't want to phrase it that way though. Then folks might think I was just tooting my own horn and would lose the overall greater message. This stuff really works.




> I did some molding of the GS the last time I worked with it, but I didn't think to use grocery bags. Have you tried using crinkled wax paper, or do you think that will work? I use wax paper with my drop in BGs, to keep it from expanding through and sticking to the table, and it peels off pretty well. I'm not sure if it would peel off as well after being crinkled, but you never know...



I haven't tried wax paper. The fact that it is a firmer structured paper might cause some interesting things. 


Crinkled, it might produce rock that has firmer, sharper edge detail. A good thing.

Being smoother, the texture of the stone might appear un-natural. Don't know.

Not being Polyethene, but a wax coating over some kind of thin paper, may or may not create some problems. Crinkling and folding it might weaken the paper causing it to want to tear at the creases rather than release. The foam doesn't stick to polyethene, I don't know how tightly the foam will want to bond to the wax paper; the scientist in me says these things should be tested out! Unfortunately I don't have enough foam to test this out right at the moment. Not going to be able to get more foam for a while, not a financial priority. I'm in construction in an area with some of the nations highest unemployment. Not much work going on right now. That's why I've had the time to document things as quickly as I have. Sorry TMI.




> I think I'm going to try molding some GS with coco fiber on top with the plastic bag and see how it turns out. I think that the plastic bag will keep the GS from expanding too much and cracking the layer of coco fiber.
> 
> Can't wait to see more of your progress.


Thanks, I'll keep dogging away.

Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



IN2DEEP said:


> Neat sculpture you have there. Have you figured out how to get a flat finish on the foam? I've been mixing powder tempra into Gorilla Glue, but hate the shiny finish.


Yes I have!!!

Don't have time right now, but I'll document about it as I go.



> I've got a tip for you, playing cards make great, cheap squeegees


Great Idea. Thanks



> a 60mL syringe helps for "precise" applications. -Please keep on documenting your progress!


I had to do the same thing. I found a spot where small frogs could get behind the false back. I've got a picture to show as I document.

Dave


----------



## Uncaonce

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



davecalk said:


> *Sorry guys, but I need a little feedback.
> *
> Since I shifted the post to a new threads which would allow me to repost the missing photos in order, I haven't heard hardly anything from anyone. Is any of this information valuable to you? This has been a bit of work to document, a labor of love yes, but if people aren't interested, I could just finish my tank and get on with it.
> 
> I thought that the ability to make foam any color that you want was something that most folks would want to know about.
> 
> Maybe I'm putting too much detail into it and it is ends up being a little to overwhelming to wade through. I don't know.
> 
> I have looked at a lot of the "tutorials" on the board and else-where, and while some of them are really good, I find that most don't document how they did things very well.
> 
> Maybe I'm getting a little burned out trying to document the whole tank, from design to completion. I'll be happy to continue if you think that it is worth the effort.
> 
> So, please, if you want me to continue, please let me know.
> 
> Dave


I like your idea with the fan, but what happens if if fries? Will you be able to easily replace it. I am in the process of designing something myself and that is the sticking point for me.


----------



## dopederson

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



davecalk said:


> Thanks Daniel. That is true. Building it is a lot more fun than writing about it. Documenting it is just plain hard work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. (I'm so 60s.) Where will you be moving too? There are a bunch of excellent froggers in the NW.
> 
> 
> Dave


Dave I will be relocating to Klamath Falls, it is in Southern Oregon near Metford. Hopefully I will be able to make contact with some folks in the hobby out there. I won't have a lot of free time working 80 hours a week but who knows...
Keep up the hard work!


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



Uncaonce said:


> I like your idea with the fan, but what happens if if fries? Will you be able to easily replace it. I am in the process of designing something myself and that is the sticking point for me.


I think so. That is one of the reasons I opened the back of the tank up. Removing the fan will be kind of a tight fit, but the way I have put the housing together, and with how I intend on installing the back wall around it with a plastic barrier to keep foam from bonding to the housing, I think I should be able to slip it apart and out the back. Thinking about it, I may have screwed up. I don't think that I installed a film barrier between the top of the housing and the foam for holding the 1 inch pipe that comes out the top of the housing. I'm experimenting with so many other things with this tank, and am now focused on trying to work on documenting the process before I complete the tank,that I may not take the time to try and disassemble it and test how easy it is to remove. If it were a larger tank I could allot more room for removal.

On the other hand, because the foam is so easy to cut apart and to repair, if push comes to shove when the time comes and if I can't get it apart and out, I could easily with little disruption to the rest of the tank, use a kitchen knife to cut out just that section, slip the housing down off of the exhaust pipe, take the housing out the back, make the repairs, and then re-foam it back into place. That is another huge advantage of cutting open the back of the tank in order to create an appliance chamber behind a false back.


One could never realistically do that with a concrete / grout rock wall setup. I'm seeing the concrete / grout method disappear from the hobby for lots of really good reasons. 


*How to include a better refugia?*
Something else that I have been thinking about. Because I now am using a fan, the place where the air pump was going to sit is now open. I could open it up and stick a plant in the space, but what about using it for a better refugia? I have developed a pouch in the top 1/3 of the tank above the fan. This area is for invertebrate habitat and food, ie. leaf litter and other invertebrate food for culturing a simple refugia and is watered by the drip wall. I am wondering about how I could I modify the space where the air pump was to sit so that I could create a little larger and better refugia, like a smaller version that Ben Eiben created? It could be feed from the rear, it would be entirely out of site behind the false back, and it could be hydrated from water trickling down from the drip wall above. Any thoughts or ideas about how to do this would be appreciated.

Dave


----------



## dopederson

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



davecalk said:


> *How to include a better refugia?*
> Something else that I have been thinking about. Because I now am using a fan, the place where the air pump was going to sit is now open. I could open it up and stick a plant in the space, but what about using it for a better refugia? I have developed a pouch in the top 1/3 of the tank above the fan. This area is for invertebrate habitat and food, ie. leaf litter and other invertebrate food for culturing a simple refugia and is watered by the drip wall. I am wondering about how I could I modify the space where the air pump was to sit so that I could create a little larger and better refugia, like a smaller version that Ben Eiben created? It could be feed from the rear, it would be entirely out of site behind the false back, and it could be hydrated from water trickling down from the drip wall above. Any thoughts or ideas about how to do this would be appreciated.
> 
> Dave


Dave,
I have long thought that epiweb would make a great "membrane" for a refugia like you are speaking about. Unlike TFP, Epiweb won't break down, gives the inverts access in and out, and keeps the frogs at bay. You could create a top loading hatch with epiweb as the lid; culture moss on the epiweb (similar to the way the viv keeper did in your link) and be able to refill it with food and argument the invert population as you see fit. I did something similar in my tad grow out tanks, using epiweb at the ramp for the tads to morph out onto. I placed spag moss on the high side of the epiweb ramp and started my springtail population there. It served pretty well as a self-feeding morphing tank.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Sorry for the Double post, but I ran into the time out feature because I took too long trying to put my thoughts together while editing my response.   The problem is, I'm a very slow reader and writer. This is extra frustrating as I try to focus on documenting both my thoughts and the the processes involved. I have made a bunch of changes throughout my original post, as I was trying to clarify my thoughts so here it is once again with a bit more detail. This edit screen is really frustrating. I just lost some of my changes again. Third time. 




Uncaonce said:


> I like your idea with the fan, but what happens if if fries? Will you be able to easily replace it. I am in the process of designing something myself and that is the sticking point for me.



*Is The Fan Removable?*
Yes, I think so. Creating access for this type of maintenance is one of the reasons I cut the hole into the back of the tank. Not only could equipment be housed in the tank in hidden chambers, those items are still accessible by removing the rear panel / door on the rear of the tank. Removing the fan will be kind of tricky, its a tight fit, but the way I have put the housing together, and with how I intend on installing the back wall around it with a plastic barrier to keep foam from bonding to the housing, I think I should be able to slip it apart and out the back. Thinking about it, I may have screwed up. I don't think that I installed a film barrier between the top of the housing and the foam for holding the 1 inch pipe that comes out the top of the housing. I'm experimenting with so many other things with this tank, and am presently focused on trying to work on documenting the process before I have completed the tank, that I may not take the time to try and disassemble it and test how easy it is to remove. If it were a larger tank I would allot a little more room for its removal.

On the other hand, because the foam is so easy to cut apart and to repair, if push comes to shove when the time comes and if I can't get it apart and out, I could easily with little disruption to the rest of the tank, use a kitchen knife to cut out just enough of that section to slip the housing down and off of the exhaust pipe, slip the housing down and out the back, make the repairs, and then re-foam it back into place. That is another huge advantage of cutting open the back of the tank in order to create an appliance chamber behind a false back.


One could never realistically do that type of removal from a concrete / grout rock wall setup. Take out your mini-jackhammer, (its called a cold chisel and hammer), remove the section (hopefully without breaking the glass or your thumb), remove the item to be repaired, repair it, reinstall the item, re-grout, flush with water 4-6 weeks, let dry, repaint, let cure. My how the time flies. Wow, it's time for the frogs to go home to their tank already. Carnak the Great says: "I'm seeing 37 very good reasons why the concrete / grout method may disappear from the hobby. Yes 37 very, very good reasons." 

Your question about the fan and the area involved got me thinking in another direction.



*Could i include a better refugia into the tank?*
I already have developed a pouch in the top 1/3 of the tank just above the fan, that is designed to create a simple habitat and food source for invertebrates, ie. leaf litter and other invertebrate food are placed into the trough for culturing a simple refugia. This is watered by the drip wall. 

But now, because I now am using a build in computer fan, the place where the air pump was going to sit is now open. I could open up the area and stick a plant in the space, or, I like this idea better, what about making the area into a better refugia? I am wondering about how I could I modify the space where the air pump was to sit so that I could create a little larger and better refugia, like a smaller version that Ben Eiben created? By the way, I don't seem to be able to get to Ben's posts about his Refugia anymore. Why is that? 


*The area to be used, Front View.*









*The area to be used, Rear View.*









*Better View of the area involved, Front / Top View.*









A refugi placed here could be accessed and fed from the rear, it would be entirely out of site being behind the false back all while being totally encased within the tank, and it could be hydrated and fed nutrient rich water from water trickling down from the drip wall above. Some kind of removable tray that would slide in and out? Some way to make it so that it might mate up with the front or top in an effort to keep the critters focused on the living area rather than migrating into the back of the tank? Using a piece of the drip wall material as a front, so that the critters could come and go, but which would keep the frogs from getting into the Appliance Chamber. Any thoughts or ideas about how to do this would be appreciated. Don't know really what I would like to do, but brainstorming about the possibilities would be helpful.

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



*Back To The Documentation
*

*Latex Gloves.
*Earlier I mentioned that I was using latex gloves, but I didn’t mention that I found a way to re-use the same pair of gloves over and over again. If during a pour I have gotten foam on the gloves in any way, when I am done with the pour, I remove the gloves. They partially get inverted inside out. Blow them up like a balloon to get all of the fingers re-extended. The sticky new foam is now on the inside of the glove. Just leave them this way until you are ready to do your next pour. By this time, the foam in the fingers of the glove has hardened and is no longer sticky. Just put your fingers into the glove foamed fingers and all and go about your business. It really doesn’t impact what I’m doing. By doing this I’ve been able to re-use the same pair of gloves for multiple pours,



I think this is where I left off.








At this stage I’m ready to start to foam in the artesian well. 


I removed the plumbing fixture from the well.

Prepped for a multi-color foam pour. (I want to practice mixing the colors into the pour and be able see the results before I get the finish areas that people will see.)

Pour foam into bottom of pool. Spread around.

Re-install / position plumbing in expanding foam.

Covered flared water inlet with saran wrap. 

Cover foam with Film. (Here again I used Masking Film)
*Film Covers Pour*








While foam expands:

Hold plumbing against back wall so that, as foam cures / hardens, the plumbing is in correct position. 
Rock Shaping: Practice Push / Squeeze Techniques.

*Remove Film / Prep for Next Pour*









Remove Film from foam after Foam is set. (Notice did not have problems with film bonding / tearing.)
Re-cover flared water inlet with saran wrap.



*Next Experiment *



*Molding Foam With Rock Molds*

*My History with Rock Casting*
Over the years I have done rock casting using plaster of paris on a small model railroad setup. While doing this I fell in love with being able to shape and mold rocks to fit in specific areas and to design areas with a view to making them look as natural as possible. I first learned about how to cast regular two-part foam from Joel of Bragdon Enterprises. Joel gave several a demonstrations about the process at a model railroading show.

Then I got the bug to try making rock casts for my frog tanks, so I spent quite a bit of time researching the ins and outs of how rock walls would work in our tanks and some of you will remember as I extensively posted about the process on frognet a few years back. At that time I was starting to think about using foam, so I went out and purchased a couple of new latex molds specifically with the intention of making rock walls for my tanks. I found and purchased the molds locally at a Hobby Shop.

If you can’t find a rock mold locally you can see a ton of different rock molds (there are lots of different rock types), you can purchase rock molds or just learn more about casting with them here at:
Bragdon Enterprises: Bragdon Enterprises - Latex Rubber Rock Molds


Around that time I unfortunately got really sick and had to give up keeping frogs for a quite a while, so I didn’t pursue the foam casting stuff. If you were on frognet several years back, you may remember that I had migraine headaches every day. The doctors said that I was reacting to the molds in my tanks and the mold that I found in my house. 


*Hidden Mold In My Home Due To Old Windows / Small Amount Of Insulation*






















Previously I had done a whole bunch of mold abatement work, which they think sensitized me to a really bad kind of mold that I unknowingly had in my house. 

*One Of My Mold Abatement Jobs*











I ended up sleeping in a tent in my back yard for almost a year in order to get away from the molds while I was getting rid of it out of the house. 


















Yes, I really was sleeping in a tent in the middle of winter. It was better for my health than was sleeping indoors.



After doing the mold abatement work in my home, taking allergy shots for years, and after doing a lot more research, (they think that I was having the extreme reaction to only one type of mold, so I think that I am ok with keeping frogs again.

I’ve experimented with raising a local caught toad in a tank and with keeping a fish tank to make sure that I am ok with having tanks again. The only time I get migraines now is when I’m around cigarette smoke or if I’m around certain perfumes. So, I believe that I should be ok with getting back into frogs again and this tank is the starting point.

I’m not sharing this to elicit a pity party, but I share it so that it may help you understand why I’ve spent a couple of years planning the things I am putting into this tank.

Only in the last year or so have I been trying to figure out how to colorize the foam.



*Back to the Foam.


Excellent Resources for Information About Casting and Foam*
The following are web sites are a gold mine of information here that I have studied at and that some of you will likely want to familiarize yourself with. It provides more than just the basics that I will provide here.


1. These two are about silicone and about how to use silicone caulk as a mold making material and is an overall good tutorial about silicone.

Using Silicone Caulk as a Mold Material - Hypertufa Forum - GardenWeb​
Inexpensive Silicone Molds w/ RTV? [Archive] - Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net​

2. This one is about making mother molds out of polyurethane foam (Great Stuff / 2 part expanding foam)
Rigid Polyurethane Mother Molds [Archive] - Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net​

3. This is a sculptor’s forum (kind of like Dendroboard but for sculptors.
Sculpture Community, Russ RuBert​

4. This is a taxidermy forum (kind of like Dendroboard but for taxidermists.
Taxidermy.Net Forum - Taxidermy.Net Forum - Index​

5. These I think that I have shared with you before.
Smooth-On - Mold Making and Casting Materials for a World of Applications!​


----------



## jelly_shrimp

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Quick question about EVERYTHING you have done. Is there anything I couldn't do with tempered glass? You seem to drill a lot. Also, when that whole thing is done, with the waterfall done, and everything is finished, and you have frogs and plants etc in it. If you lived in Colorado, and I could drive, I would pay to see it becasue it's gonna be bad ass!!!


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

What is going on with the Dendroboard. A while ago when I first re-posted the the entire contents of this thread, I re-checked the photos of page 1 and page 2 using both safari and firefox. Both showed the pages just fine and I heard no-one complain that they could not see the photos. 

Today I just checked and none of page one's photos appear in either firefox or safari.

What gives?


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



jelly_shrimp said:


> Quick question about EVERYTHING you have done. Is there anything I couldn't do with tempered glass? You seem to drill a lot. Also, when that whole thing is done, with the waterfall done, and everything is finished, and you have frogs and plants etc in it. If you lived in Colorado, and I could drive, I would pay to see it becasue it's gonna be bad ass!!!


You can do anything that you want with tempered glass accept the following:

You can't cut it
You can't drill it
You can't etch it
And this may not be a complete list.

Tempered Glass / Strengthened Glass has been structurally changed. The internal pressure on the glass is different than the structural pressure on the outside edges of the glass. That is why when you drill the glass or cut it the pressure chances between the inner and outer edges of the glass are released which causes the glass to fracture into tiny pieces. 

If I remember correctly, there is an annealing/re-annealing process (I'm not sure which word properly applies), which can be done to tempered glass, by heating it and letting it cool very slowly. The slow cooling re-balances the internal / external pressures within the glass. This would the allow the glass to be cut, drilled, or etched. I think this process is rather expensive though, so it is typically only done with valuable glass structures.

Here is a summary of Tempered Glass.
Toughened glass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry if this news is not what you want to hear.

Dave


----------



## AaronsWorlddotcom

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Hey Dave, 

Thanks for re-posting this 

The pictures are showing up in almost all of them.

The posts that don't work still have the thumbnails attached so I was able to at least see all of the photos for each step. Much much better than than the way it was before.

I love the shelves you made for the waterfalls. Keep going! I am loving it. Everything you write really helps out for generating ideas about building tanks. 

What kind of a front door are you going to have?
I assume it is just open right now, to facilitate working and because I haven't seen any pictures of it


----------



## thatguy

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I am just getting started and a lot of this is over my head, but this is awesome info. Thanks for taking the time to do this.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



AaronsWorlddotcom said:


> Hey Dave,
> 
> Thanks for re-posting this


You are welcome. 



> The pictures are showing up in almost all of them.
> 
> The posts that don't work still have the thumbnails attached so I was able to at least see all of the photos for each step. Much much better than than the way it was before.


Yes, the thumbnails are still there, but I specifically checked the first page several times with both firefox and with safari. (The latest version of both programs). The photos all displayed properly. I checked them on a couple of different days. Now, several days after posting, now they are not displaying on page one. So far each of the other pages continues to display properly, but for how long? It is pretty disappointing. 




> I love the shelves you made for the waterfalls. Keep going! I am loving it. Everything you write really helps out for generating ideas about building tanks.


I am truly glad that this has been helpful to you. Last night i filled the tank with water to test how the waterfalls flow again. I was thinking of posting the video on u-tube with a connecting link here. 




> What kind of a front door are you going to have?
> I assume it is just open right now, to facilitate working and because I haven't seen any pictures of it


You haven't seen a front door because there is no door. I am building this out of a simple 20 year old aquarium. The opening is in the top. Cutting the door in the rear of the tank does greatly ease the construction of several aspects of the tank.
.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Man Guys, this is getting real frustrating.
I was going through page one and found that, while my first doesn't have photos it does have thumbs so I didn't worry. Scrolled down and found that post #8 no longer has either photos or thumbnails.

I will repost it for a third time.

Maybe the third time truly will be the charm.




*Two Color / Two Part Foam 
A Real Nice Look: No Paint Added*[/SIZE]










It is getting late. I’m heading up to NWFF later today to see a number of you all. Haven't seen some of you for several years.

Hope you are enjoying this.
More to come.

Break to next post


*Side Bar.
*Back from NWFF. Man it sure was great seeing Brent, Tor, Dave, Erin, Todd & Christina again. It's been way too long.



*Rear separation Wall Prep / Foam
*
Next I foamed in the separating wall between the plumbing vault and the front of the tank. 

*Base Coat Foaming of Wall
*








Set the tank on its back. Covered the plumbing side of the screen with plastic film to form a backer to keep the foam imbedded with the screen.











I stuffed newspaper between the film and plumbing in order to apply pressure to hold the film tightly to the screen. 



This foaming step is done to imbed the screen with foam in order provide a good strong solid non-flexible base for the final three-color foam face to be poured. 

The initial pour or two of the screen coat I ran into problems. I found that I needed to put more pressure on the newspaper / backing film in order to push the foam back up into the screen (it would drain through the screen into pockets between the screen and film and then drain down into the plumbing bay. I should have started with more newspaper to create more pressure against the screen. As it was, I used one hand to push the film / foam up into the screen. It ended up taking a couple of pours in order fill most of the holes and gaps in the screen. This did form a decent base coat for the surface coat of rock. As the foam would expand and get thicker I could squeegee it around with cardboard to fill gaps and form a solid base.



*
First Attempt at Mixing / Pouring a Three Color Rock Surface

Next Experiment:
Setup & Pour Info for 3 Color Pour.
*








Marked and filled 6 deli cups (3 cups A / 3 cups B) per the mixing instructions on the color sheet shown earlier. Then added the pigments into the various part B cups, (Not in order: base grey cup, darker brown / purple accent color cup, rose accent color. There is no time sensitivity to adding and mixing the colors to part B.











Place the part A together with the part B counterpart so you get the coorect percentages of part A/B mixed together.











Move all cups to the top of the tank for faster / easier mixing of parts A / B, and quickest pouring onto wall. 

*Note: 
*In this first attempt, I actually think I over stirred the final batch. Too much adrenalin from the excitement of the process and from trying to pour and mix the three colors together knowing that I only had a small window of working time. I feel this rock sample came out way too homogenized in its color. It still looks good, but not by my new standards.

*Second Note: 
*With practice, I have been able to do three part color by myself and make it look great using just a wooden stirring stick and toothpicks. Using dabs, pokes, jabs, strokes and swirls in a random order I have make faux rock that would rival real rock in its natural coloration and appearance. On the other hand, it would be vastly easier to have several people mixing the different colored A/B parts together all at the same time. This would allow you a little more time to get the colors poured and interspersed in and around each other for best effect. 


*Push / Pull / Pinch / Squish Technique
*








As the foam expands, I placed Painters Film over it. I then experimented with different tightness patters of Push, Pull, Pinch, & Squish. Everything I have shown to date was done only with my bare fingers, but I am planning on adding higher definition by also shaping the plastic using Pencils or Dental Tools.


*Tight Creases / Film Problems 
*








Some of this looks pretty good, but I discovered some problems during this cast. 

When I tried to remove the Painter’s Film this time and found that the Film liked its new home a little too much. I couldn’t get that stupid stuff to peel away from the surface of the rock for love nor money. As I pulled, the foam would stick in crevices and not let go. As I continued, it ripped and shredded in various spots as I tried to remove it. You can see some of the white tags in the lower left corner and the square whitish section in the center to upper right is completely covered in film. Before I speculate about the causes, I think that I should define how I am using a couple of terms so people don’t get confused.



*Definitions of Terms
*• *Film* – Whatever plastic sheet material that you are using to create a rock shape. (Plastic Grocery Bags, Painters Masking Film, Saran Wrap are the three that I have used)

• *Rock Shape* – The gross or overall shape of the rock, ie. the bumps / ledges / ridges / holes / divots, etc. that are created by Pushing, Pulling, Pinching, Squishing the Film or squirting foam out of a zip-lock snack bag. Here is an example.










Continued...


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

For the administrator:

In reposting post number 8, because somehow it lost the photo, I examined the internal links. The http links were all there. It is as if the attachments were lost.At least there were no thumbnail images at the bottom of the post and none showed up in the manage attachments section, 

But in examining post number $1, the links seem to be there, and there were attached thumbnails that could be viewed, but the photos within the text of post #1 could not be seen.


----------



## Bananaman

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I'm going to have to check out those floorpads!
Awesome thread thank you for sharing


----------



## sNApple

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

wow i cant believe you slept in a tent for a year


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



sNApple said:


> wow i cant believe you slept in a tent for a year


Yah, I was sick with Daily migraine headaches, mental fogginess, and extreme fatigue for over a year. My son and I took an extended camping trip away from the house in the middle of February during his spring break. The migraines dissipated. This is when I started sleeping in the tent for I think around 11 months while we tracked down what was causing it.


----------



## AaronsWorlddotcom

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



davecalk said:


> Yah, I was sick with Daily migraine headaches, mental fogginess, and extreme fatigue for over a year. My son and I took an extended camping trip away from the house in the middle of February during his spring break. The migraines dissipated. This is when I started sleeping in the tent for I think around 11 months while we tracked down what was causing it.


Sounds like you needed a HEPA filter with an Ion-generator!


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I just posted a video of the tank and my water tests. It shows several aspects of the tank including what the foam colors of the waterfalls looks like. The images aren't the clearest because I didn't post the highest resolution, so that more folks can see the images without having to wait a long time for the images to load. I think that watching it in the full computer screen mode is the best.

YouTube - Colored Foam Waterfalls


It does give you a real good idea of what is possible with making a foam rock. Its really cool. 



I originally struggled with whether I should post this information or if I should just try to make and sell colored foam rock walls as a source of income. Money is really tight right now, but I decided that this information was too valuable to the frogging community as a whole. Anyone can do this and I would wish to know this kind of thing was possible if the shoe was on the other foot.

Happy Foaming.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



AaronsWorlddotcom said:


> Sounds like you needed a HEPA filter with an Ion-generator!


This was about 5 years ago. I have the HEPA filter, but not the Ion-generator.
I haven't dealt with the daily migraines for almost 4 years. Just needed to get the bad mold out of the house. That and allergy shots. And stay away from folks who are smoking, and from a few kinds of perfume. Yup, my body doesn't play well with certain kinds of chemicals.


----------



## Dragas

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Thank goodness foam isn't one of those chemicals !


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Colored Foam and Mother's Day*

On Saturday, while we were brainstorming about Mother's Day Gifts, my 13 year old son came up with the following gift and it involved using colored foam.













He went out and found a cool stick.











He started cutting pieces out.











He cut out 2 pieces about 1/2 inch thick that looked like this.












*The Procedure*

He covered the front of the pieces with blue tape and cut off the outer edge of tape.
I stepped in to help at this point, we put the two pieces together face down on top of saran wrap.
Built a heart shaped form out of cardboard.
Cut a piece of screen material to reinforce the joint between the two pieces.
I had my son do the most of the pouring and mixing. He poured out equal amounts of parts A & B, a little less than 1/2 inch, into the two communion cups. Then he measured and added the tempera paints to part B in the amounts that I suggested thus making a medium brown color in a communion cup. (The color he chose was about half way between two of the colors on my mixing chart.) Due to the time issues involved, I mixed the two parts together and my son poured the foam over wood, into the gap between the two sections, and into the empty area of the V of heart. 
As the foam expanded, he spread it over the wood with cardboard and imbedded the screen into the foam for strength.
Then we covered the foam with saran wrap film and he continued to spread and smooth through the plastic.
Then we let it cure.












*After the Cure*
Removed the Tape from the front.
Sanded a few areas two remove foam from where it had gotten on the front of the wood.
Next he made a hanger out of a couple of screws and a bread bag twist tie.












*Final Mother's Day Gift*











I'm betting that if my 13 year old son could mix colored foam, most everyone reading this could as well.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



dopederson said:


> Dave I will be relocating to Klamath Falls, it is in Southern Oregon near Metford. Hopefully I will be able to make contact with some folks in the hobby out there. I won't have a lot of free time working 80 hours a week but who knows...
> Keep up the hard work!


In going back through to see that all of the posts photos are still attached, I realized I missed your post. Yes, I know where Klamath Falls is. I remodeled 5 or 6 Banks in the Medford area about 6 years ago. Nice area. Hated the job; I'm very much of a family guy. I would drive down, 8 hour drive from where I live, stay for the week in my truck, while working nights and weekends, because the bank had to be open during the day, then drive home on my days off, in order to see my family.

Hope you have the time to get back into frogs.


As far as the photos dropping off of DB, Kyle says that he sees the problem and thinks that an upgrade in the software that runs the forum is what is corrupting the original photo's link. 

Dave


----------



## jelly_shrimp

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Your son's a genius! I would never think of that!


----------



## Bananaman

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Just watched the video, great tutorial, its going to be an amazing tank I can't wait to see it!


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Back to Documentation

Latex Gloves.*
Earlier I mentioned that I was using latex gloves, but I didn’t mention that I found a way to re-use the same pair of gloves over and over again. If during a pour I have gotten foam on the gloves in any way, when I am done with the pour, I remove the gloves. They partially get inverted inside out. Blow them up like a balloon to get all of the fingers re-extended. The sticky new foam is now on the inside of the glove. Just leave them this way until you are ready to do your next pour. By this time, the foam in the fingers of the glove has hardened and is no longer sticky. Just put your fingers into the glove foamed fingers and all and go about your business. It really doesn’t impact what I’m doing. By doing this I’ve been able to re-use the same pair of gloves for multiple pours,


*I think this is where I left off.
*








At this stage I’m ready to start to foam in the artesian well. 


I removed the plumbing fixture from the waterfall well or pool.

Prepped for a multi-color foam pour. (I need the practice mixing the colors into the pour to see the results, before I get the finish areas that people will see.)

Pour foam into bottom of pool. Spread around.

Re-install / position plumbing in expanding foam.

Covered flared water inlet with saran wrap. 

Cover foam with Film. (Here again I used the Painter’s Masking Film)


*Cover Poured Foam with Film*








While foam expands:

Hold plumbing against back wall so that, as foam cures / hardens, the plumbing is in correct position. 
Rock Shaping: Practice Push / Squeeze Techniques.


*Remove Film / Prep for Next Pour*








Remove Film from surface of foam after Foam is set. (Notice I did not have problems with film bonding / tearing.)



*Re-cover flared water inlet with saran wrap.*










*To use Film or Not to Use film, That is the Question – (Bill Shakespeare’s First and Not so successful Line.* 
You can use plastic bags or film and the Push / Pinch Method to make halfway decent looking rocks. If on the other hand you want the very best looking rocks, you will need to purchase a mold or two to make a cast rocks. 



*Next Experiment 

Molding Foam With Rock Mold*

The first time I saw two part expanding foam being used was 8 or 9 years ago at a model railroading show. Joel, from Bragdon Enterprises, was demonstrating the process as he was making a geodesic panel. 

About 5 years ago or so, I finally purchased a couple of rock molds at a local Hobby Shop that carried model railroading supplies. Interestingly, the molds that I purchased at the hobby shop were produced by Bragdon Enterprises, If you can’t find rock molds locally you can see and purchase a bunch of different rock shaped molds at Bragdon’s site:
Bragdon Enterprises: Bragdon Enterprises - Latex Rubber Rock Molds


*Question: Do you want or need the absolute highest resolution or detail possible in your cast?*


> If you are casting a statue that someone will hold and examine in great detail then yes, maybe so. In order to do this you should follow the directions that Bragdon lays down. This involves several extra steps and materials such as casting resins that can duplicated details down to a stray finger print that is left on a master. Personally I personally think that this level of detail is way overkill for something like our tanks.




*Preparing The Mold*








First off, some latex molds require vulcanizing to properly strengthen and cure the mold. Mine from Bragdon Enterprise did, so I followed the directions and boiled the mold in water for about 20 minutes, and then let them air dry thoroughly.




*Mold Release For Foam*
Because two part foam, just like Great Stuff, is extremely sticky. You will, need to cover your mold with some form of mold release prior to each use in order to prevent the foam from adhering to your mold. Without a proper mold release, each time that you de-mold the foam cast from the mold, will end up ripping and tearing out tiny details and pieces of the mold and you will in short order end up destroying your mold.


*Experimental Mold Release:*
This is an area where I feel that I need more time to really determine what really works the best. Because I am a super limited budget right now as well as because of the fact that I am basically cheap, I would rather make things myself if I can rather than going out and buying everything, While building rock walls for my model railroad stuff, I have made and used my own mold release with much success. Likewise, I have poured some beautiful rock waterfalls, using the two part foam, but to date I am not all that happy with the release formula that I am using. I have seen how casts are supposed to release from the molds, and am aware that the method that I am using is not up to snuff yet. Molds should peel easily out of the mold with no foam residue left on the mold and with no bits of the mold being pulled off by cast materials. Each time I have used the foam in the mold with my mold release technique, I have had a pockets of residue left sticking here and there to the latex mold. I just now, while I am writing this, had an epiphany about why I may have had problems with my mold release formula and it involves the materials that I have been using for the release. Because of toxicity issues, I have limited myself to only materials that I believe would be non-toxic in our tanks, I will discuss this more shortly.



*Commercial Mold Release Formulas*
As far a commercial based mold releases, the only one that I would consider is a food grade mold release such as the one called “Stoner Rocket Release.” From What I have read, this product takes paint well as well as being non-toxic. The fact that it takes paint well is valuable to us in that it helps us deal with the foams glossiness if we need it. 

Stoner E302 Rocket Release 



> Paintable Mold Release: Stoner Rocket Release_Stoner E302 Rocket Release is an extremely versatile release agent which is generally acceptable for applications where a food grade release is required. In many applications, Rocket Release is considered to be the most paintable release agent available when molding plastics and similar materials. Rocket Release allows molded parts to be painted, plated, hotstamped, adhesive bonded, labeled, or otherwise decorated in most applications. Provides a long lasting anti-stick film for fast, easy part removal from molds and multiple part releases per application.



As I have said previously, I first learned about casting molds from Bragdon Enterprises, and my mold release was based upon the following information that I have used from them in the past.

*Quote From Bragdon Enterprises.*


> Any molds that you plan to use must be coated with a mold release prior to each use to prevent the casting material from adhering to the mold. The best method is to coat the mold with a thin, even layer of petroleum jelly. Rub the jelly all over the mold with your fingers and work it into all of the nooks and crannies. You may wear thin plastic or rubber gloves while doing this if you do not want to get the jelly on your hands but don’t be tempted to use a brush as you will get too heavy a coat of jelly on the mold.
> The coating of petroleum jelly on the mold should appear a little shiny but should be otherwise invisible. If there are visible globs of jelly continue to work it in. You should be able to feel the slick, greasy coating on the rubber mold surface.
> 
> Next spray gloss white lacquer or other petroleum solvent based spray paint all over the inside of the mold (do not use water based paint). Fig. 7 Lacquer is best because it dries quickly and the mold can be cast right away. Spray lacquer is available at most Ace hardware stores or can be ordered from Bragdon Enterprises. As the paint dries it combines chemically with the petroleum jelly to create an excellent mold release that allows the casting to be easily removed from the mold and leaves a non-greasy, paintable surface. The used molds do not need to be cleaned but do need to be re-coated with mold release just prior to each cast. There are a variety of mold release sprays on the market; some of which will work well. They should be first tested on the back of a mold before risking a valuable mold. Non-stick cooking sprays and fabric protecting sprays such as “Scotch Guard” are not very effective and are not recommended.


The Bragdon formula works very well, for model railroads, which don’t have the need for zero toxicity, but because we do need zero toxicity, I modified my mold release formula by using a Clear Acrylic Matte Sealer instead of using lacquer or oil based materials.



*Clear Acrylic Matte Sealer*








What I failed to do with my formula was to modify or change the underlying base of Petroleum Jelly to a water based product which would work better with the Acrylic Sealer. 


*Initially Used Petroleum Jelly / Should Have Been Water Based.*








I am speculating that when I sprayed the Acrylic Matte Sealer on top of the Petroleum Jelly, the Acrylic Sealer would not spread evenly across the petroleum-based product and that would create gaps in the coverage. Tonight, when I realized this I just had to test it out. I went out and purchased a small amount of an off brand of Personal Lubricating Jelly, similar to KY Jelly. 



*KY Jelly / Water Based Lubricant *








KY is generally biologically inert, contains no color or perfume additives and being a water-based product it should react much better with the Acrylic Sealer. If you purchase a KY type product for this process, make sure that you do not get the type with a spermicide in it, as this could potentially be detrimental to the frogs. At this point, all of this is experimental at the moment. While I know that the Lacquer bonds with the Vaseline to form a paintable surface I am not sure about how the KY / Acrylic formula will react together. 


*Prepping the Mold.*
1. Mark Gloves: I marked my gloves with a big black V so that I wouldn’t confuse them with any of the other gloves that I was using for my foam mixing. This way I would not accidentally use the wrong gloves and get KY on any area that I might want to bond things to later. 

2. Apply KY: 








(Personal Lubricating Jelly / KY Jelly) The best method is to coat the mold with a thin, even layer of KY. Rub the jelly all over the mold with your fingers and work it into all of the nooks and crannies, but don’t be tempted to use a brush as you will get too heavy a coat of jelly on the mold. The coating of KY on the mold should appear a little shiny but should be otherwise invisible. If there are visible globs of jelly continue to work it in. You should be able to feel the slick, greasy coating on the rubber mold surface.



3. *Spray “Clear Acrylic Matte Sealer” Over Mold:*
Spray “Acrylic Matte Sealer all over the inside surface of the mold. This step is what kills the foam’s natural sheen. The foam will bond to the acrylic which is a non-yellowing Matte finish. The permanent finish can be painted or accented if you need to add highlights, or if you need to add shadows and depth to your rock. As the Sealer dries it is in the mold, it is supposed to combine chemically with the underlying jelly to create a mold release that allows the casting to be easily removed from the mold and it should leave a non-greasy, paintable surface. After removal, the used molds should not need to be cleaned for the next pour, but they do need to be re-coated with mold release just prior to each new cast.


*Running UV lights in your Tank?

Foam Needs UV Protection:*
The spec sheet says that the X-30’ two part foam that I am using must be protected from sunlight when used in an exterior application. Therefore, if you use UV light in your tank you will need to coat the foam with a product like this instead of the one that I used. 

*Krylon:UV-Resistant, Matte *








Krylon: UV-Resistant Spray Clear Matte Acrylic
Provides a clear, UV resistant, non-yellowing, Matte Finish. coating that provides a protective coating.​



4. *Preparie and Pour milti-colored pour*








a. Mix the materials for a Three Color Pour (So far I have found that the best pours are done in smaller batches..
b. Pour the three colors into the mold in spots and layers, interleaving the mix as described earlier. I used the toothpick to spot and dab the accent colors on the surface of the mold in different areas. Then I gently would swirl the colors together as the foam swells
c. After the foam is well along the way of expanding, only then do you install the mold onto the surface.
d. One key element is to hold the mold in place very firmly. The mold is flexible, but it has a memory that it will fight you to return too. Only after the foam is well along the way to setting will it begin to hold itself in place. Once again, don’t attempt to de-mold until it is well set.
e. Remove the mold very carfully. 
f. Remove the plastic from the base of the water inlet.​​


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*



Base of the Waterfalls*











*Prepping for next layer
Covering Floor of Waterfall with film.*











*Rock Layer Creates Partial Cave Effect*










*Nooks and Crannies In back wall of Waterfalls*











*Preparing For Next Terrace.* 








Shaping CPVC with heat for waterfall lip.




*Overall shape of second Terrace*











*Foam Glues CPVC to Glass*












*Preparing Planting Bays*








Cut Several 2 inch diameter PVC pipes which are 2 inches long. These are cheaper to make than buying baskets.




*Heat in oven to Shape*











*Shaped to fit.* 









Planter on left will go between the computer fan intake chase and the outside wall of the tank.
The other planter will fit between waterfall tier 1 & tier 2
Planter on right has a large section of screen material that is attached to the planter’s base with silicone. The excess screen material provides the shell for bottom half of the waterfall shelf rock covering for tier # 1 and it provides drainage to the planter itself so that the roots will not constantly be soaked.

*Planter Side Bar*


> In looking at a ton of tanks over the years, I consistently see folks foam the entire planter basket into the foam back wall with no allowances being made for drainage of the basket. This I feel is a major mistake. When a tank is constantly misted over a period of time as ours are, water will fill up these baskets, which then continually soaks the roots causing the plant to slowly rot away. This I feel is one of the major reasons that many of the plants in our tanks only seem to do well if they are grown epiphytically.





*
Screen on Tier 2 welded into place*








The excess screen that was siliconed to the bottom of the planter is now welded into place with expanding foam. This does several things. 

It locks together the upper and lower levels of tier two. 
It produces hiding areas within the tier.
It provides a surface which the rock face can be bonded to the tier.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*



Communion Cup Tadpole Site *








Used a heat gun to soften the plastic of a communion cup so that it could be reshaped into something more irregular in shape (Round stands out to the eye as un-natural or man made). Used base rock colored expanding foam to glue the cup in place. Used a plastic bag to hold the cup in place while the foam expanded and locked the cup into place.



*Second Tier Planter / Tadpole Site Installed*









Ran a ring of brown foam around the inner and outer edge of the planter. This way if the soil settles down into the planter a white ring does not show up and be very noticed.
Notice the dark area to the right of the planter. This is another intentional hidy-hole that goes along the entire length of the planter.







*Third tier waterfalls Layout*








Heat shape tier 3.
Install with foam.
Mark screen location cut and install w/ spot hot glue / base foam.


*Planter Install With Drainage Mesh / Rear Wall Barrier – Front Veiw*








Heat / shape cpvc for planter below WF Tier 3. Foam Glue in place.
Screen welded w/ foam above water level in Appliance Chamber. This will keep exploring frogs out of false back wall area and will provide drainage for plant.
Single piece of screen goes all the way to the drip wall above.



*Planter Install With Drainage Mesh / Rear Wall Barrier – Rear Veiw*









Note Shaping of Rear Wall Barrier gives the wall its three dimensional texture / shape.
Blue tape in center is the waterfall plumbing. Covered with masking film so that foam will not stick to it.
Blue tape & saran wrap cover waterfall control valve.



*Foaming In Rear Wall Barrier*












*Create Computer Fan Air Return – Rear View*









Take three 3/4 inch PVC pipes. 
Sand interior of pipe to generate tooth in surface to accept paint.
Spray with Flat Black Acrylic Paint
Silicone 3 inch wide screen to back of vent pipes
Spot glue to false back wall
Foam weld screen into place. (One of the huge advantages of using foam to weld / glue structures like this into place is that it expands on its own, filling all of the hard to reach areas that might get missed which could allow frogs to escape into the back.)



*Computer Fan Air Return – Front View*











*Foam Rock Waterfall Three Color Cast*








Cast joins Tier 1 with Tier 2





*Foam Rock Waterfall Three Color Cast*








Added the Rock above the tier 2 planter.
Used a section of the mold that had a natural hump in it to give some 3D to the flat top of the section that created the artesian well.


----------



## McBobs

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Looking good! Keep it coming!

-Matt


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*

Documentation

Water Testing the Plumbing System / Waterfalls.

*

I recently ran a second set of tests on the waterfall system. 
*Waterfall Test*











*Dry Planting Bed Less Than One Inch From Flowing Water – Cool!*








Yup, Just how I planned it.



But the whole test didn’t go according to plan though. When I ran my initial waterfalls / pump tests, I did not shut the pump down and leave it off with water in the pool overnight. I should have. I was too excited about the results and with beauty of the rock waterfalls and wanted to keep going. 



> A Jedi Master of Foam you have not yet become. Practice patience you must.


When I ran the multi-tiered waterfalls test and did leave the pump off over night, by the next morning the water had receded to a level that was quite deep within in the well. I had designed it so that the water would stay in the well and create a continuous pool.

*The Receding Pool*



























The receding pool is really ok with me, yes it was a little disappointing that it didn't come out quite as I was planning, but hey, I will probably leave it and not tear it apart, for a couple of reasons. 

I like the look of the pool as it is. It is not all that important to me that the pool remains high. The rocks look great, and when the pool is lower it will just give the frogs more land area to run around on.
I don’t have the foam to redo the area right now, even if it did matter to me.
This whole foam project is an experiment. I am learning the ins and outs out the process and while I try to anticipate problems, I’m surely not going to be able to anticipate all of them. That is part of the scientific process. Hypothesis, Test, Results, Learn for the future.




*Speculations as to what went wrong. 
Where has all the Water gone? Long time passing.... *
Hmmm, Reminds me of a song from long ago.

This is the advantage of having taken photos along the way, I can go back and examine them to gain clues as to what went wrong and how to fix it in the future. (A hint and suggestion as you build your tanks)



*Possible Draining Areas*








Any one of these areas could possibly be a leak spot.


*Plumbing Install*








This was pushed down all the way to the base and might have created channels within the foam, which could have allowed the water to drain out even though the foam itself is waterproof. I would have thought that the expanding foam would have filled all of the voids and thus closed off all water avenues of escapes, but alas, not so.


*Future Install Solutions:

The following are a couple of really easy solutions which would keep the water in the pool.

1. Geodesic Bubble Foam Box.* Rather than use screen, make a geodesic sheet (a bubble wrap / foam / screen sandwich.) The plastic bottom, would make it waterproof and this method would be by far the strongest.








*How To:* While the foam is still curing it remains soft and flexible. Shape the panel to fit the well of the waterfalls either by cutting the sheet at its corners and folding it and fitting into the well, or by just scrunching the uncut panel down and into place.


*2. Line the well with Masking Film.*








After this stage where you have foamed in the screen to give it strength and to lock its shape.


*Line With Masking Film*








As you install the foam, you could use Masking Film to push the foam around into the screen to fill all of the voids. I typically have removed the film, but you could leave the film in place thus leaving the pocket impregnable to water. The foam has shown that it will somewhat stick to the film thus holds fairly well in place. Then proceed with installing the plumbing as usual.


*Example of Film Holding Water*








When I created this I en-wrapped a wad of film with Masking Film and used the Zip-Lock Squirter (Snack Bag with Foam) to mound up foam around the ball of film. I intentionally left several holes in the bottom of the bowl for drainage / frog access. (I was originally going to foam this closed into a cave with an external view. May still make a cave or two.) I left the rest of the film in place after I had problems removing the film, I left the film over the holes and it now holds water well. This way the bowl could be used for a tadpole drop-off site.


----------



## davecalk

*Refugia / Springtail Cultures Installed In Tank*



davecalk said:


> I
> *How to include a better refugia?*
> Something else that I have been thinking about. Because I now am using a fan, the place where the air pump was going to sit is now open. I could open it up and stick a plant in the space, but what about using it for a better refugia? I have developed a pouch in the top 1/3 of the tank above the fan. This area is for invertebrate habitat and food, ie. leaf litter and other invertebrate food for culturing a simple refugia and is watered by the drip wall. I am wondering about how I could I modify the space where the air pump was to sit so that I could create a little larger and better refugia, like a smaller version that Ben Eiben created? It could be fed from the rear, it would be entirely out of site behind the false back, and it could be hydrated from water trickling down from the drip wall above. Any thoughts or ideas about how to do this would be appreciated.
> 
> Dave



I'm kind of surprised that no-one chimed in with any thoughts about this at all. 



*Interchangeable Springtail Cultures Installed Within The Tank​*
I’ve been trying to figure out the easiest way to make a simple inexpensive enclosed system that would allow me to easily and quickly remove a springtail culture, and replace it with a new culture. This is what I have come up with.

*Simple Refugia / Installing An Entire Springtail Culture Container*








I found these at The Dollar Tree where I purchased a pack of two for $1.00. 



*Checking the Fit*








As you can see it will be a bit of a tight fit because I didn't design this feature into the layout in the first place. The cultures will have a screw on lid which I am going to try and mount to the barrier wall. The lid will have a section cut out of it which will be covered with drip wall / buffing pad material which will keep the frogs out of the culture all while allowing the springtails to pass through and into the living area of the tank. 

I may modify some of the surrounding upper and lower cpvc pipe support structure a bit with my heat gun in order to make the rock shelving follow the shape of the container so that it looks a little more natural given the shape constraints of the container and lid. 



*Modifying the Cups

Left Cup Modified / Right Cup With Lip*








A rectangular shape probably would have been a better shape for the area involved, but I chose the round container because of the screw on lid. I figured that it would be a whole lot easier to screw a culture in from the rear and get a tight fit, rather than trying to use the snap on lids. They would have been a lot tougher to get snapped and locked into place on the wall. The cultures will slide into the Appliance Bay just fine with no modification, but I found that the cup's lip snagged on things a couple of times while trying to remove it so I modified the container by shaving off the outer lip or edge of the cup with a kitchen pairing knife. While cutting the lip off, I found that the cup's plastic is a bit brittle; you can see a small stress fracture forming in one spot where I got a little too close to the edge wall of the container as I was cutting. But at 50 cents a piece, what does it matter if I goof one up.



*The Modified Cup*








To the right you can see a portion of the removed rim.



*The Benefits*
By doing this, I envision that I could raise several interchangeable cultures of springtails which could be rotated into the tank. When I get culture population blooms or I have a number of froglets within the tank or I go on vacation, I could quickly and easily swap out the entire springtail culture from within the tank just by removing the old culture from the tank and replacing it with a new one. The old culture would then be replenished with food and the springtail stock would be allowed to re-populate without any pressure from the frog's predation. With this method, I could see the frogs having an almost continuous supply of springtails being delivered to the tank. 


*Question*
Has anyone experimented with adding air an air line into a springtail culture? I am wondering if there would there be any benefits to installing an air line into the middle of a springtail container? I still have room in the back of the Appliance Chamber where I am thinking about installing a small aquarium pump for other purposes than springtails, but I could easily tap a line to the springtails if there is any evidence that this might be beneficial for the culture. I was also thinking about whether there would be any benefits to channeling water into the springtail chamber, either to help flush springtails out of the chamber or to flush water through the food / media.


Thoughts?


Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*




I haven’t had much time to mess with things. I did decide to modify the PVC support structure so that I could turn the refugia a bit straighter so that it lines up better visually. I tried the heat gun and found that the glued together PVC fitting and pipe was too thick to soften without destroying the screening material and foam so I dug around in my truck for something that I could cut it with. All of my regular cutting tools were too large to reach into the area well. My solution was to use a spiral cutting bit (normally used in a roto-zip type tool). 













I actually used the bit in a cordless drill for a little easier reach into the cutting area and so that I could more easily view what I was doing while cutting.












I was driving by tap plastic and decided to stop in. I was wrestling with whether to buy more foam so that I could finish the project. I found that they had some small storage and display boxes that I felt were ideal for a refugia box that would slide into place in this area (larger internal area to the box and not as tall as the round food containers which I have), so I ended up getting the boxes and not the foam (I still have some foam.)



*New Refugia Boxes*




















I like the inset lid so that the buffing pad / drip wall material can fit down into the recessed area be foam glued into place along its edges.



*Much Better Fit Within the Existing Area*








The square box fits the area much better than the round one did. 

The round one would have worked, but this one seems to fit as if I had designed the area for it. 
Better air flow under the box for the computer fan return.
The flat bottom can much more easily be supported at its base.
The top does not almost touch the upper shelf (like the round container did.) 
Also I know that the foam will weld very well to square acrylic lid. I think that the round plastic food lid would have been somewhat harder to fit and attach the screen to.


Haven’t been able to work on the tank as much lately so posting will slow. Lots more important things to do….


----------



## davecalk

*Drip Wall / Refugia Barrier /EpiWeb Replacement*

Hi Guys,

Remember my post about using buffing pads as Drip Walls, Refugia Barrier, EpiWeb Replacement?

*Drip Wall*









*Other Colors*











I have contacted one of the manufacturers about these pads and have found that I might be able to get them to manufacture the pads in rectangular shapes.


If there is an interest, I could get pads made that are:

14 x 20 inches
14 x 28 inches
14 x 32 inches


I think I could get them from between $10 - $15 per pad, plus shipping.

The company I talked with manufactures them from recycled water bottles and recycled pop bottles which makes them not only frog safe, but eco-friendly as well.

Would there be any interest?


----------



## AaronsWorlddotcom

*Re: Drip Wall / Refugia Barrier /EpiWeb Replacement*



davecalk said:


> Would there be any interest?


Yes! I would definitely like to try it!

Any chance you could do a full tank shot? 

I am having trouble mentally with how far you are and how everything fits right now.


----------



## dopederson

*Re: Drip Wall / Refugia Barrier /EpiWeb Replacement*



davecalk said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Remember my post about using buffing pads as Drip Walls, Refugia Barrier, EpiWeb Replacement?
> 
> *Drip Wall*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Other Colors*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have contacted one of the manufacturers about these pads and have found that I might be able to get them to manufacture the pads in rectangular shapes.
> 
> 
> If there is an interest, I could get pads made that are:
> 
> 14 x 20 inches
> 14 x 28 inches
> 14 x 32 inches
> 
> 
> I think I could get them from between $10 - $15 per pad, plus shipping.
> 
> The company I talked with manufactures them from recycled water bottles and recycled pop bottles which makes them not only frog safe, but eco-friendly as well.
> 
> Would there be any interest?



Yes I would also be interested. Especially given that we now know that we were paying Epiweb prices for a generic plastic mess pad in the past.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Drip Wall / Refugia Barrier /EpiWeb Replacement*






AaronsWorlddotcom said:


> Yes! I would definitely like to try it!
> 
> Any chance you could do a full tank shot?
> 
> I am having trouble mentally with how far you are and how everything fits right now.


Hey Aaron,

Sorry I haven't been able to work on the tank much the last week or so. 


This is the best I can do for you.

YouTube: Colored Foam / Tank Walk Through


I'll check out what it would take to get some pads made.


Dave


----------



## AaronsWorlddotcom

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Have you tried using masking film with the great stuff spray (I know, its the enemy...)? 

I love this build thread, you include your failures as well as the successes! 

I think this is the most important thing you could be doing right now....  Keep it coming, I appreciate all the hard work to document it... (hard for me to even take pictures)


----------



## davecalk

*Are Buffing Pads Safe to Use in Our Tanks?*





Hi Guys,

The question was raised on frognet about whether using EpiWeb or Buffing / Stripping Pads Be Safe to use around our frogs? We've have been having a really good discussion about whether the plastic used in fiber mesh webbing products such as the buffing / scrubbing pads or EpiWeb sheets would be safe or whether it possibly might leach chemicals into the water that might pose health risks to our tanks. 

Seeing as I originally brought it up here, in my build thread, I thought that maybe it would be responsible of me to post how I came to my decision, which is based upon my research of the materials. I didn’t feel that it would be right for me to post everyone else’s responses from frognet, though I have included a few snippets so you can follow the thought process. Other's frognet post are indented and blue. If you are interested you can view the entire thread in the frognet archives at:

May 2009 Frognet Archives


Sorry Guys, but this may be a little long of a post. It reflects the research that I went through when I started trying to figure out if these buffing pads would be frog safe or not.

* [Frognet] Drip Wall / Refugia Barrier / EpiWeb Replacement
*
On May 20, 2009, at 12:17 PM, DavecC wrote:

The company I talked with manufactures them from recycled water
bottles and recycled pop bottles which makes them not only frog safe,
but eco-friendly as well.


Dave,

Are you sure "frog safe" is right?

Any plastic as it breaks down is problematic, and:

Hormone-mimics In Plastic Water Bottles Act As Functional Estrogens

Debate rages over plastic bottle chemical's safety | Reuters

Plastic Safety - washingtonpost.com

Great Pacific Garbage Patch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​



That is kind of a nebulous thing to me to be able to answer for a lot of reasons, but I'll give it a shot.

Yes, there is a lot of debate over the answer to the question of whether or not the drinking water from plastic bottles is safe, whether the bottle is re-used or not. There is conflicting data about the toxicity and leaching of chemicals resulting from the degradation of the plastic over time. Some researchers believe that the plastics leach chemicals, which are potentially hazardous to human health, and that by drinking water from plastic bottles; people might ingest or our frogs might be exposed to these chemicals, thus putting their health at risk. Other researchers believe that while plastics certainly do certainly contain hazardous substances, the amount of leaching that actually takes place from the plastics of these substances is very much in question.

And despite the many different studies have been done all that we have is a lot conflicting data within the research; some valid studies seem to indicate that there may be a problem, while other valid research seems to say no there is not a problem. Ultimately, no one has been able to definitively prove the issue one way or the other.


The issue surrounds a number of harmful chemicals that are part of the debate, particularly the carcinogen di-2-ethylhexyl-adipate (DEHA), a chemical, which is used as a plasticizer. DEHA is believed to have a potential for endocrine disruption and has been linked with obesity.

The other major player in this discussion is bisphenol-A (BPA), a known endocrine disruptor, meaning that it can cause some hormonal imbalances. BPA has been linked to some types of cancer in lab animals, which leads to a concern that it can also cause cancers in humans. BSA is found predominately in sports bottles. The containers are made of polycarbonates that are designed to be lightweight, ridged, unbreakable (they make bullet proof glass from it), long lasting, as well as being completely reusable and recyclable. Lexon is a name brand example of this type of plastic.
​The concerns here primarily center on whether toxic chemicals can be leached out of the plastic when the polycarbonate bottles (sports bottles, baby bottles, etc.) are heated, as when warming a baby’s formula in a microwave or over a stove. Studies have shown that a heated polycarbonate bottles will release BPA molecules to a very slight degree; however, most scientists have concluded that the amount of toxic chemical that is expelled during this heating process is well below unsafe levels. Additionally, some researchers have expressed concern about the possibility of scuffed or scratched bottles being able to leach BPA into food or beverages, but these concerns have also been constantly shown to be unfounded.


I think that it should be noted that BPA is not what the typical bottled water bottle that you purchase in the grocery store is made from. Nor are soda bottles / pop bottle made from BPA. These bottles are soft, flexible, recyclable, and are made of "recyclable / disposable plastics,” and they contain no BPA.

Also, while researching the buffing pads I found out that these pads are manufactured from recycled pop bottles and grocery store water bottles, not the polycarbonate plastic, so BPA's issues of it being a known endocrine disruptor would not even be a factor to be concerned about if you decide to use this material as a drip wall in your tank.​
I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that most of these "concerns" about the safety of drinking from these types of water bottles are similar to the Cyclamate scare of 1970, which caused the FDA to ban the Cyclamate artificial sweetener from commercial use in the United States because it "might" cause cancer at extremely high doses. These conclusions were drawn because of a study that found that 8 out of 240 rats developed bladder tumors when fed a mixture of saccharin and cyclamates, at levels where a human would have to ingest 350 cans of diet soda per day in order to receive equivalent levels. It has been approved and safely used as a sweetener in more than 55 other countries since its development. Finally in 1985 the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) reported that there was no validity to the conclusion that Cyclamates cause cancer in humans. They found that the sweetener cyclamate is completely safe at normal levels of usage. I found it interesting that even though Saccharin was tied to the same studies, it had enough political clout to prevent it from being banned in 1970. 

Cyclamate - New World Encyclopedia



*Back to the Studies about whether these plastics are sate.
*The studies that I saw do indicate that some plastics do contain these both DEHA and BPA, but clearly not all plastics do. They also do show that there is a leaching "potential", but this potential is primarily found only at the time that these plastics are being heated to high temperatures. This is because it is the heat that causes the chemicals to offgas from the plastic. When a bottle gets hot enough from being heated in a microwave oven for example, the chemicals in a plastic bottle can begin to offgas and the vapors within the bottle having nowhere else to go will migrate directly into the water, coffee, baby formula. But are our tanks exposed to the temperatures that can facilitate this offgassing? No, they are not. The temperatures at the level that would cause any offgassing would themselves be lethal to our frogs.

The chemicals present in the plastic bottles also have the ability to leach out can do so in a couple of other ways. Some of the research does seem to show that extended regular use can result in a miniscule amount of leaching. This may be a result of damaging of the plastic through scrubbing, from washing the bottles out with harsh cleaning chemicals or from them being run through a dishwasher at high temperatures. Researchers speculate that as the chemicals leach into the contents of a bottle, they may pose a risk to anyone drinking from the bottle, as they ingest the chemicals unaware. They continue to speculated that for people who use a ton of these plastic bottles, there may be a long-term exposure risk through leaching which may lead to future health problems, but again this is speculation, and there have been no actual studies that have shown any long term risks to humans.



Brent posted several studies that did show a link between bisphenols and the feminization in developing tadpoles:

Tadpole Feminization



And in fish:

BPA & The Feminization of Fish

He said that it is less clear is whether it is causing problems with wildlife In the environment.

Field Study of BPA

However, given what I know right now, I doubt these buffing pads pose any real risk to frogs in vivs if water is periodically siphoned or drained off. I might think twice about using them in a viv where water in contact with the plastic accumulates in a reservoir where tadpoles are reared. But once the drip wall is grown in with plants, I would expect the direct contact exposure of frogs to be very low and if the water runs into a false bottom or down a drain, I don't see how it could be an issue for the frogs in the viv. It may be more of an issue for frogs downstream of your plumbing. 

Just my 2 cents.

Brent​


If we installed this buffing disk material into our tanks, would it be possible for any of these chemicals to be offgassed into the tank? Is it likely that the plastic would breakdown or fracture off small pieces that might hurt our frogs? Some think it is possible, while others say no. Who are we to believe; what are we to believe? How dangerous is the problem? It really is impossible to say for sure. But because of the public's concern over the "perception" of the problem (not the proof of an actual problem), many manufactures are making a switch to BPA free plastics, just to be ahead of the game.


But again, BPA is not used in the plastic that is in the buffing pads, so for us that chemical would be a non-issue.​

Personally, I think that we should examine and weigh or measure the risks from both the possibility of toxins being released from off gassing or the breakdown of the bits of plastic. These risks should then be compared with the risks due to the natural biological wastes that can build up from the use of the old natural drip wall materials that we used previously in our tanks. When I compared the two, I came to the conclusion that the biological wastes produced from the breakdown of the natural wall tends to pose an exponentially higher risk in their potential overall chemical levels and toxicity levels within the tank's environment both in the short term and long term existence of the tank. I concluded that the addition of a plastic drip wall, which may or may not break down over the span of several decades, doesn't really to come close in comparison.

On one hand a plastic drip wall will not break down and produce anywhere near the same levels of nasty chemicals that a natural drip wall would create, on the other hand the plastic fiber mesh provides a large surface area which is an aerated, moistened surface that promotes a good biological film or growth which would in and of itself tend to lock the plastic together and which would promote filtration of the water that is able to remove nitrates and wastes. This it seems to me is a much more of healthy option, even if there might be some breakdown over the space of years, and is a trade off I am willing to make.



I applaud these guys for recycling plastic but I'm not convinced that any epiweb will not break down and end up being taken on by the frogs. That might effect their hormone levels but more logically to me the small fragments of the plastic will end up being sequestered in the frogs and build up over time.
​
That is a justifiable concern, but I think that very nature of the way that the buffing / stripping disk is constructed may preclude this.


Plastic is essentially not biodegradable. It just breaks down into smaller and smaller pieces and has to go someplace.​
I think that it is this "Non-biodegradability" of the drip wall material that most people are after, myself included. How many times have we read over the years about someone who had to completely rebuild a tank which had it's natural fiber drip wall degrade to the point where it fall into the tank. For years people have asked for a drip wall material that would not decay like coco fiber panels, that would create a permanent surface which would facilitate biological filtration like a bio-wheel does for aquariums, which would allow plants to grow and attach themselves to it's surface, and that would look half way natural. While it seems to be true that plastic does break down, but how quickly does this actual breakdown process take place? 

WikiAnswers - How long does it take a plastic water bottle to break down

Tracy, you asked me if these buffing pads would be safe for our frogs, and the vast majority of research that I have found does seem to indicate that yes they would be safe on many levels for many different reasons, some which I have already lined out, some of which will follow.



In our closed environments the frogs will take on more than they would living in a trash dump outside San Juan, much less some out of the way tropical forest.​

This may or may not be true. Even if there were an appreciable amount of toxic chemicals being released slowly over time due to a breakdown of the plastic (I think that the vast majority of the research indicates this really wouldn't be an issue for our tanks), but for the sake of argument, let's suppose that there was some toxic release over time. Would there then be a a resulting build up and resulting problem because our systems are closed? No, I really don't think that would be the case for a couple of reasons. 


First of all, our tanks are not truly closed systems. A closed system would be a system that completely recycles the water and no new water is added. But in our tanks, we are constantly introducing new water through misting, spraying and fogging. The new water picks up these chemicals as it circulates through the plastic. The water is then periodically drained away or siphoned off depending on how you regulate the water levels of your tank.

How much would the plastic in the buffing pads break down over time? That is hard to say based upon how the pads are manufactured. The subsurface is made from several different products depending on the manufacturer. 3M's manufacturing is based upon virgin nylon and polyester. Both are food safe. The recycled content from the company that I talked with is also supposed to be food safe, but there are questions. The base fibers are then bonded and covered with a non-toxic abrasive that stiffens and encapsulates or encases the base fibers in a way that makes the entire fiber mesh unaffected by the water, detergents, and harsh cleansers that are used in the floor cleaning janitorial industry (as quoted from the spec sheets I read. This too would likely cut down on leaching.

According to most sources, it does take somewhere around 450 years for the plastic in a water bottle to break down, so how big of a problem would be the breakdown of and depositing of smaller and smaller chucks be to our tanks and our frogs? I can't say for sure, but from the research that I have read, I am not going to lose any sleep over it.

Finally, if chemicals where slowly being released and leached out into the water due to the slow breakdown of the plastic, the net effect would most likely be no build up of the chemical because the tank is getting flushed out at a far faster rate than the plastic is breaking down and released.

Because of all of these factors, I personally don't feel that there would be much of an issue with regards to a toxic build up in our tanks from these types of plastics.

Most of the research seems to indicate that it is very unlikely that there would be problems and the overall general consensus on frognet by is that there would not be an issue.


Hit the too long of post, so I'll split it here.

Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Safety Question of Buffing Pads*

*Safety Question of Buffing Pads Continued


Subject: Re: [Frognet] Drip Wall / Refugia Barrier / EpiWeb
Replacement
*

Tracy that was a good post, it made me think things through in few different ways.

Dave you make a good substantive argument for the plastic. I just disagree with it.​Not a problem. Having these discussions is what enables us to more clearly examine the issues, which will hopefully lead to a better understanding of whatever the topic is. You might see things that I miss and I might see things that others don't. That's why frognet is so great. Being able to honestly discuss and even disagree can help us discover new and hopefully safe husbandry techniques that will help our frogs and tanks down the road.

Taking 450 years to break down does not mean that the plastic water bottle is still fully recognizable ten, twenty or fifty years after it was made. It means that the elements fused together to make the plastic will take 450 years to return to something close to their basic forms. The entire 450 years the plastic is breaking down into smaller and smaller pieces that are generally not water-soluble. They don't necessarily flush out the way chemicals that leached out would. Instead the fragments are filtered through the terrarium environment, which would sequester the plastic fragments.​
That is true, but on some of our scouting clean up projects, I have pulled plastic bottles out of the ground that were complete and whole, even though they had been partially buried in damp soil for years. Over the years the plastic did become more brittle, which means that some sort of change was taking place in the plastic, but the fact that an undisturbed bottles were still whole after many years exposure to sun and water (which are much harsher conditions than would be found in our tanks), does indicate to me that the undisturbed plastic drip wall will likely remain in one piece and not shed into tiny pieces.


The substrate, plants, insects and frogs will all act like filters. I'd simply prefer they filter organic material than inorganic.​
Yes, I understand that feeling and I know a lot of folks feel as you do. After doing a lot of research, I can safely say that there are a great many trade offs with using natural products such as Cocos Panels, Tree Fern Panels, and Coconut Fiber mats. And one of the things that I found that kind of surprised me was that just because a product was “Natural” didn’t mean that they are completely “Safe.” There are many negative aspects to these natural products.



One major negative that I found is that the "natural products" decompose about 400 times faster than a plastic drip wall does. That means several things when you compare the two products side by side over a given period of time. 
The natural products in both the short term and long term life will produce a ton more negative chemical compounds than one would find being produced by a decaying plastic drip wall. 
Over the life of the tank you would use many more natural researches as you have to replace the drip wall.
The initial costs and overall long term costs of a natural drip wall are much higher.


I think that most people assume that because a drip wall is made out of “natural” products they must therefore be safer to use than would an un-natural plastic drip wall. I’ve come to believe that this is not true. Most people don’t realize that as these natural products decompose and break down, they end up producing many dangerous substances and gases, which are then released into our tanks. Because coco panels are “natural” and because we have never noticed a problem, we don’t ever think about it. Our assumptions typically are that because something is natural, it must be completely safe to use. The reality is that over a given period of time, the normal decomposition of these products will actually produce a great deal more toxic substances than they would the equivalent break down of a plastic drip wall. 
Because in a drip wall, there is usually plenty of oxygen and water most decomposition takes place in an aerobic environment. This usually produces carbon dioxide, nitric and nitrous oxide and ammonia. 
If muddy pockets develop, which don’t have enough oxygen; the whole process goes anaerobic which can lead to VOC (Volatile Organic Compounds) such as hydrogen sulfide and methane. 
Unusual gases can be produced in the process of woody plant decomposition such as chloromethane and cyanide.

*Side Bar* 


> If these toxic substances are constantly being produced from the natural process of decomposition then why don't we see a problem in our frogs and tanks? It is because we are constantly diluting and flushing these toxins from our tanks as air and water are added to our systems through misting, etc. Therefore these natural decomposition bi-products don't reach a level that becomes a problem .



Another issue with these natural products is that they can come with or be inhabited by several noxious bugs.

Some of these natural background products can breakdown in a matter of only a year or two. Most don't last more than 3 or 4 years, so just when the plants and animals are finally established and the tank is where we want it to be, the tank then needs to be torn apart and rebuilt. Or we just wait until the wall decomposes to the point where it falls off of the back before we tear it apart and redo the whole thing. Of course when a wall falls off the back, we put the frog's in the tanks health at risk from physically getting squished when a wall goes down.

Some folks use endangered tree fern products such as Dicksonia (Xaxim) because it has the ability to stand up in a humid environment better than the cheaper coco fern. This could lead to its extinction.

Finally, many of these products are just plain expensive.


Because of these issues with the natural products, Many have looked for a frog safe, tank safe, non-toxic, inexpensive material that we could use. Many are using EpiWeb and have found it to be safe and durable, which is good, but it is extremely expensive for those of us in the US; it may be cost effective if, you live in Europe but for most folks here it is not a viable option.



To put it in more direct human terms: I think it would be dangerous for anyone to be locked in a room with a recycled plastic fiber drip wall fifty times human scale and with the water running over the drip wall being filtered by the room for a lifetime.

Tracy​
I for one would not like to live for a lifetime locked in that room with a 50 foot natural drip wall either. It will produce even more noxious and toxic gasses than the equivalent plastic wall would in a much shorter period of time. The only real advantage that I can see to using it is that it is made from natural materials.

I like your analogy. It got me thinking of looking at life from our frog's perspective. To put myself into the perspective of my frogs, how about if we thought in terms of our living for a lifetime on a piece of property the size of the lot lines that our homes sit on. Someone always ends up bringing us our groceries and we have all of the water and air that we need. Would it be perfect place for us to live? No it probably wouldn’t. Could we survive and even be a little happy, yah we might just be able to cope. I think we being the social creatures that we are, would have a much harder time dealing with it than our frogs do. If we over crowd the tank we can definitely raise their stress levels. Providing lots of hiding spots helps. They don’t always like hanging out with their weird uncle Willie either. Me, I just hide in the attic. It is nice to have lots of places to hide. ;o)

*Anyhow, The Bottom Line*
The overall consensus between the research and that of the frognet masters is that there is little to fear with using buffing pads in your tank. 

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it was relevant.

Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*






AaronsWorlddotcom said:


> Have you tried using masking film with the great stuff spray (I know, its the enemy...)?




Hey Aaron, 

I am sure that this is where I'm supposed to get up and run around frantically yelling, "Unclean, Unclean, Repent you Heathen. Once you have seen the light you can't go back. Go and Great Stuff no more."  


Truly, it doesn't bother me if you use the wrong, nasty, evil product who's initials start with GS. Just as long as you use the correct squishing techniques and procedures.  Hope you don't mind my attempts at sarcastic wit and humor, I just put the kids to bed and I'm feeling pretty good right now. My 13 year old son beat me in 2 out of 3 games chess today and I couldn't be prouder. They were really good games. One of you kiddingly said in an earlier post that my son was a genius when you saw his foam heart Mother's Day project; well you may not be far from the mark. Last year in seventh grade, his state testing showed his Lexile score was 1263 which means he's is reading at a college textbook level, and his math scores are already past what he needs to graduate from high school. I know TMI. But if you can't tell I'm kind of a proud papa.


Anyhow, back to your question,yes, you most definitely can use saran wrap / masking film / plastic grocery bags to shape and mold great stuff foam into rocks or wood type shapes and structures. The two part foam that I am using is the same kind of polyurethane material that is found in a can of Great Stuff. After you spray in the Great Stuff and it is partially expanded, you can begin to cover the foam with the plastic wrap. Don't forget to overlap the film's edges by a couple of inches or so. Now you can start pushing, pinching, and stretching the fresh foam into that perfect rock shape that you've been dreaming about for years. Once the foam has set up, you should be able to easily remove the plastic from your new rock surface. 

While I haven't tried this one yet, you might also want to try dusting the partially expanded foam with the dry concrete tints before you cover the expanding foam with the plastic film. This should enable you to embed the pigment down into the surface of the foam as you begin to push and pull things around. This way you are embedding some of the pigments into the sticky surface of the foam which should colorize it some. If you do this, I would recommend that you use the concrete tints as opposed to dry tempera paints because in this application, the pigment is stuck to the surface of the foam whereas with the two part foam process the materials are actually encapsulated within the foam. 


Using the masking film with GS you should also be able to make simple tree shapes with the great stuff as well. All you need to do is create a rough tree mold / shape in something like damp sand. After you have the rough shape, you line the mold with plastic film, install GS foam into the molded area and wait until it sets. You will still have to colorize it in order to make it look natural, though which is why I came up with the way to colorize the foam itself in the first place. 





> I love this build thread, you include your failures as well as the successes!


Thanks a lot. I appreciate that a lot.

I view failure and success a little differently. I'm ok with sharing my failures as well as my successes, because ultimately I feel that it is my failures that will teach me some of the most valuable lessons in life. One should be able to learn as much or more from their mistakes as they can from their successes. Ultimately our mistakes aren't truly failures if we can learn something from them. By embracing my failures, I can use them to spur me on to even greater successes.

As I look at the things that I love doing in my life, my frogs are one source of great joy. Another is being able to teach. My undergraduate degree was a double major of biology and secondary education. I have taught at the high school and college levels, and I have volunteered in the Boy Scouts and in the youth department at church for over 20 years.

By sharing my mistakes as well as my successes, I hope that others in the hobby will be that much better off. You don't have to make some of the mistakes that I made as I was learning how to make colored foam. The only thing that I ask is if any of this has been helpful to you, I you want you to try to return the favor by sharing your successes and failures with others in the hobby someday. Our frogs, our tanks and our hobby will be all that much better off in the long run if you do.





> I think this is the most important thing you could be doing right now....  Keep it coming, I appreciate all the hard work to document it... (hard for me to even take pictures)


I understand what you are saying, and yes, documenting this process is an important thing for me. I will keep at it, but my kids are my highest priority right now, and a close second is finding work. I'm in construction and I've had a total of 3 small paying jobs since January. With our state having the second highest unemployment in the nation, its been loads of fun. All of my contractor friends are in the same boat right now, so I'm in good company.  


Thanks for the encouragement and the appreciation for the things I've been trying to do with this thread. 

*Important Life Lessons: *
Don't stress about the things that you can't control. Recognize that you can't change the past. The only thing that you really can change is how you react to the things in your past and with how you are going to look to the future.


Dave


----------



## davecalk

*EpiWeb Installation Position Is important For Plant Growth*




*EpiWeb Installation Position Is important For Plant Growth*

Some folks have mentioned on frognet and here on DB that they have had a problem getting plants and moss to grow on EpiWeb. I ran some experiments on my drip wall and I think I may have figured out why. I installed my wall so that it is completely vertical as I think most do. When I run water through the drip wall, most of it flows through the center of the fiber mat and very little actually reaches the face of the wall. This is fine if all you are after is biological filtration, but it does leaves very little water at the surface drip wall. After playing with things a little, I found that tipping the drip wall forward, so that the top leans out towards the front of the tank with the bottom being closer to the back of the tank, the water tends to flow and drain through the mesh at the front of the face of the drop wall mesh. Do to the nature of the mesh, the water, following the shape and contours of the mesh. This little change would allow the plants / moss to be watered during the day while the waterfalls are running, but would allow the wall to dry out when the wall is shut down. 

I did find some cool shots on the web of plants attaching themselves to the wall with their roots growing through the mesh. 

*EpiWeb*













The following are close up shots of EpiWeb which shows that the fiber material looks identical in appearance to the buffing pads that I purchased.


*EpiWeb Photos From The Web*




































I think that I will modify my back wall to create a slope or slant in the drip wall so that most of the water flows at the surface of the wall to help with moss growth. I may play with it some more because the further the wall is tipped, the more water flows at the surface. You can also create drip pockets which would allow water to fall or cascade off of moss growing, like we see in many areas of the NW while we are out on waterfall nature hikes.


----------



## AaronsWorlddotcom

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

This stuff looks promising...?










http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/20412.pdf
http://www.gaf.com/Content/Documents/21016.pdf

here is a picture of someone putting it over their radiator to keep out dust (one of the better up close pictures I could find).








It is made out of polyester fiber and seems much less dense than the floor pads.


----------



## elkinsda957

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Great Journal! I may try the buffing pads when i setup my tank.


----------



## alifer

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

WOW Dave!!!

Your are the DIY king. I would have never thought up most of the ideas you put together in your viv. You can bet I will be using a number of your ideas next time I do a viv build. You don't have any patents pending do you? I used a ventilation system in my NC24 build, see my signature link, but your system is much more elaborate. 

-Rick


----------



## moore40

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

This thread is awsome! I can't wait to experiment with the two part expandable foam myself. How is the biuld coming along anyways?


----------



## davecalk

*Long Term Foam Water Test*

Hi Guys,

I’m sorry that I have not been able to do post anything lately or update you on any progress. My soap opera of a life has been pretty frazzled of late. I’ve been a self-employed contractor in the Portland area and the economy around here is pretty rough, especially for those in the building trades. The unemployment rate in the construction sector right now is over 35%. Things are so tight around here that The City of Portland just this month laid off 1/2 of its building development bureau; these are the people in charge of building plans, permits, and inspections. This last Sunday's paper had a whopping total of three construction related jobs in the entire employment section for the Portland area. Portland itself has around 575,000 people with almost 2 million people living in the entire Portland metropolitan area. While I've been applying for every job that I see, but so far nothing has come along. One contractor that I talked with said that he got over 400 resumes for one job that was available. Needless to say I’m pretty bummed and am far behind on the bills.

Therefore, I’ve been looking for work outside of this area and the only job offer I’ve had is 1600 miles away back in Dallas Texas, and the job comes at a significant pay reduction from what I was making a year ago. The biggest problem to me though is that my kids will be staying here in Portland. Right now I’m looking at moving back to Dallas on a temporary basis until the economy picks back up here. Personally, I would rather tear off my right arm than leave my kids, but I’ve got to pay the bills and be able to have a roof over their heads.

I talked with my kids about the job offer yesterday. I'm going to try and clean out and fix up a few things on my home so that I could hopefully rent it out while I'm in Texas. Then I have to try to find temporary homes for the kids cat and two dogs. Did I mention that I’m kind of depressed about it all?

One positive besides having some income is that I would be able to see Tracy and Cindy from frognet again.

Enough of my whining, While I haven’t been able to do anything more on the tank in quite some time, I can report to you about a long term test that I have been running on the colorized foam on how well its color and texture hold up while under water. I have been soaking a bunch of samples on the window sill for about 6-7 months now and so far there has been no color bleeding and the foam has not changed at all in its texture or hardness. Periodically I pull a sample out of the water and give it a brisk rubbing with my thumb to see if any color comes off. Then I give it a good squeeze to see if it compresses or breaks off. So far I can detect no changes. Also the water has not changed color, and I have noticed that the Tupperware container does grow the normal algae and sludge around the edges.

Also, I must apologize to those of you who have PMed me about the buffing Pad materials. I’m sorry that I have not responded. I haven’t gotten back with my contact to find out about the costs. When I get to Texas I’ll have a bit more time to get all of the details. 

Yes I’ll be taking the tank with me so that I should be able to finish it.

Thanks for your patience.

Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Hi Guys,

Well, I've got good really great news this last week; just two weeks before I was scheduled to leave and move over 1000 miles down to Dallas, a job finally opened up for me here. This will allow me to stay here and be with my kids. On Wednesday I started working for Habitat for Humanity as a construction superintendent, working with, training and helping the volunteers and future home owners as they build the homes. When I told my kids about the job, they were all were dancing around here for the better part of an hour.

In many ways this job is close to perfect for me, I love teaching and working with folks, and Habitat is such a great organization. I built a home for habitat several years ago back when I was teaching construction. I guess I'm rambling on, but if you can't tell I'm kind of excited, I get to stay here with my kids ! ! ! !

I still have a bunch of things to finish up, but I should be able to get back to my tank / colored foam / and darts in general fairly soon.

Dave


----------



## wespastor

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Hey great work detailing the build. Any more work being done with it? I see that it has been a while. I have a build that seem to be going slow as well.


----------



## UmbraSprite

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Dave,

I have played with the EpiWeb quite a bit myself trying to fine tune it. What I have found is that to get the even distribution of water I need something across the surface which will "wick" the water to the surface. I am using the moss mix also provided by the EpiWeb folks. I am sure any mosses would work but I like this moss as it doesn't go too crazy in terms of how thick it grows thus challenging the plants for light. 

I have also noticed however that the moss mix doesn't like to be covered in water. So the EpiWeb works nice as the water doesn't run over the mix yet keeps it moist. 

A great place to find the info on chemical leaching etc is on the Orchidboard forums. It was created for hard to grow orchids which are also extremely sensitive to any "contamination". The manufacturer has done extensive analysis and assures no breakdown or leaching. 

Amazing job on this thread....hope you have the time to continue!


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Thanks Guys,

Yes I am planning on continuing the process. I purchased more foam about a week ago, to continue the process (finally). I have been continuing a long term water test where I have been soaking the foam in water constantly for about 1 1/2 years now. There has been no softening and no color leaching from the foam that I can tell. 

Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

A long while ago someone asked me what could be done with tempered glass. My answer was that you can do anything you want with a piece of tempered glass as long as you don't need to modify it, ie. cut, drill, etc. It is very strong and takes a great deal of punishment before breaking. When a piece of tempered glass does break, the resulting shards don't have nearly the sharp edges that regular glass would have. Last summer I made a short video about the strength of the glass which also demonstrates why it can not be drilled, cut, or modified in any way.

It also shows why if you even just scratch or chip a piece of tempered glass, it will start a cascading process that will eventually lead to a catastrophic failure of the glass.

Tempered Glass Demonstration

Dave


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Hi all,

It has been quite a while since I have posted about the tank I’ve been working on. 

I kind of got stuck for a while as I figured out how to eliminate a few potential problems with regards to my desire to creating a refugia area. This whole change of direction started when I accidentally killed off my brand new dwarf striped isopods. I was so excited when the dwarf stripes got here. I immediately split the culture and started a new culture box. A problem occurred when I added lots of different types of vegetable matter into each of the isopod culture boxes. I wasn’t thinking real well. I added too much vegetative matter to the cultures which ended up creating a toxic environment. It produced a massive CO2 build up which killed off all of the isopods. It got me thinking about the potential for CO2 build up within the tank if I added a refugia area within the tank. 

I started by trying to figure out how to modify the tank so that it would be able to eliminate any CO2 build up without the need for an air pump being feed into the tank. 

This is what I came up with.
Notice anything different about the tank?










I figured out how to incorporate a European style ventilation system into a typical aquarium tank setup. 

My design also incorporates a door that opens from the front. The door is not a set of split bypass doors nor is it a hinged opening (which is just about every front opening tank that I have ever seen). I have always thought that the vertical lines that run through the center of most tanks looks kind of funny and very un-natural. For many months I have been planning and plotting, trying to figure out how to make a single sliding door work. But as I worked, I got stuck with on a problem that I just couldn’t figure out. I ended up putting the tank project on hold for quite a while until the proper set of solutions presented themselves. I now have a working system, which allows the door to slide open and closed. This is the final result of my planning.




















The entire front of the aquarium is able to slide open in either direction, to the right or to the left. The door can be removed entirely if need be. Personally, I wish that I had done this at the start of the build because it would have made working on the tank so much easier.

The door itself is supported and runs on top of a sliding channel track, which I created. Below the track is the bottom half of a European style ventilation system. 

I am tickled to death with the way it came out.

After I developed the track / vent system, I then laid out begain to cut the glass front of the aquarium in three places with my wet saw / tile saw. It was pretty easy to cut with my tile wet saw, but I think that it would have been even easier with a handheld tile saw like this. 










Contractor Direct has this saw for $49.00.


I think that you could rent this type of saw from Home Depot if you didn’t want to purchase one. If you get a handheld saw, make sure that you get one with a water hose attachment so that the glass stays cool. Too much heat, ie. cutting without water, could cause the glass to crack.


I drew start and stop lines on the deck of the saw so that I could stop the cut without cutting into the glass on the sides of the tank. If you use a handheld tile you wouldn’t have to worry about into the side glass. All you would need to do is set the depth of the cut to the proper height so you are just cutting through the glass.

The first cut that I made was at the top of the tank. I set the saw so that the initial cut was about ¼ of an inch below the plastic lip of the top of the tank. This left about a quarter of an inch of glass exposed below the plastic lip. 

Then second cut makes the overall height of the door so you will need to calculate and lay things out carefully. You need to take into account the height of the shelf that the glass door rests and slides on taking off about 3/16 of an inch extra for the space or gap which is at the top of the door.

The final cut is the cut aligns with the bottom or floor of the tank. I messed up this measurement and ended up cutting into the bottom of the tank by just a bit.










A better way to get this measurement is to do a “story pole.” Place a stick / pole / tube into the tank and make a mark at the top of the tank. 










Then place the stick on the outside of the tank aligning the mark with the top of the tank. This then shows you the bottom of the tank. Make a mark on the outside of the tank.










Then make sure that your cut is above or is at the very top edge of the mark.


All the cuts went fine, but then I ran into trouble when I tried to get the front glass to separate from side glass. I had envisioned using a piece of wire wrapped around a couple pieces of wood, using the wire to saw down through the silicone. I got a couple of different gauges of wire and began trying to saw through the silicone. I broke umpteen pieces of wire as it would bind up; I never did get more then a ¼ of an inch cut. Then I tried utility knives and X-Acto knives trying to make the cut and all I did was chip out pieces of glass from the edge. I got extremely discouraged and set it aside for many months. Finally in doing a search, I found a post from someone who had to replace a broken glass panel in their aquarium. They said that they were able to use a razorblade to easily cut the silicone to separate the pieces of glass. I tried it and it worked extremely well; it took me maybe 15 minutes to make the cuts. I had struggled for several hours with little success using the other methods. The key to the razorblade’s success is the fact that it is made of very thin spring steel. This allows the blade to flex and align itself between the edges of the glass. The other blades were either too hard so they wouldn’t flex or too thick and they couldn’t get into the crevice without chipping out pieces of glass.









I would recommend using gloves, as it was still kind of hard on the fingers as I would grasp the blade while cutting. The method did work very well though and it allowed me to easily cut the glass door away from the tank.










The door is now free from the tank and I am back in business.


Here is the tank with out the door / front glass in place.











In the following photograph take note of the height of the second cut. The second cut corresponds to the new height of the bottom of the door where it will slide on the track with about an 1/8 inch to 3/16 of an inch clearance at the top of the door. I notched the plastic and then cut out the glass so that it is flush with the bottom.











In retrospect I’m sure that it would have been a little easier for me to cut all the way through the plastic edge so that I could cut the entire section of glass out completely without the need for bringing in and using a second / different tool. The way I did it the outside edge of the door track is not exposed, it is covered with the plasic from the tank; it is therefore a neater, cleaner and more professional looking. But if you want the easiest way to do the cutting, you could just continue the cut through to the outside edge.

The second tool that I used was a Dremel MultiMax.









I used the undercutting wood blade to make a nice straight cut at the corners which would allow the edges of the door track to slip inside the plastic edging of the tank. 

To Be Continued.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I used the undercutting wood blade to make a nice straight cut at the corners which would allow the edges of the door track to slip inside the plastic edging of the tank. 










I then used a MultiMax grout-cutting blade to smoothly cut out the remaining pieces of glass back into the corner.











Nice clean corners.









*Top Track
Front View of Top Track*
Next I used a hacksaw to cut out the top track and tested it’s fit.










*Side View of Top Track*
What you are seeing here is how the track slips up and over the remaining piece of glass. Friction holds it up and in place as it rests underneath the plastic rim.









The previous couple of photos show a lot of sticky residue on the face of the plastic. I used Acetone and a clean rag to clean off the residue. 


*Bottom Track*
Here is the bottom track that I developed for the tank. 










Next I test fitted the Bottom Track to make sure that everything fits properly.










*Attaching Screen*
Using Silicone, I attached the screen to the back side of the bottom track. Originally I was going to run the screen along the top like was done in the  Constructing a European type Vivarium Step by Step sticky, but the more that I got looking at the design, the more I liked the idea of having the screen on the bottom where it is out of visual range. 


In the next image, I show the screen being installed so that I could have the screen both at the top of the door track and at the bottom.









In the end, I trimmed the screen off of the top and will only be using the venting underneath the track. This will enable the tank to have a more natural look, ie no screen is showing.


Now that I know that the track fits properly, I will layout and cut the piece of glass that fits behind the door track. This way the tank will have the normal false bottom, but it will be hidden, all while allowing air to pass underneath the door and up across the front of the glass.

*Cutting Glass*









*End Cut / Straight Cut*
First of all I prepped the tank for the glass by scraping and removing any high or bumpy areas of caulking with a razorblade. To lay out the glass for accurate cutting I butted the piece to be cut against the left side of the tank.









Then with a felt tipped pen, I used the edge of the tank to mark where I needed to make the cut.









I put a piece of cardboard under the piece of glass that is to be cut. This protected the countertop from being scratched or marred by the glass cutter’s carbide cutting wheel. Then using a speed square as a straight edge, I rolled the cutter over the glass, pressing hard, in order to score the glass. Only make one pass, *do not attempt to make multiple scores as this will result in a very uneven break.* You want only one scored line.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Then using the heavy metal ball on the opposite end of the cutter, tap on the backside of the score mark, tapping the along the entire length of the score line. The shock wave that is sent through the glass from the tapping will cause the score line or crack in the glass to deepen. Lots of light taps are better then really smacking it. You are trying to weaken the glass uniformly over the entire length of the score / cut so that it will snap off easily with a light amount of pressure. You are not trying to break through the with the drumming. 











For small lengths like this one, you should slide the scoring tool over the edge of the glass, using the proper sized groove for the thickness of the glass. This allows you to snap the glass off along the weakened score line safely and efficiently. With larger pieces you can grip the glass with you glove covered fingers and snapping down and away from the score side of the glass.










If you goof up and the break doesn’t snap completely to your score line (either because you scored the line two or more times, I know, I've done it, or because you scored the glass with too little downward pressure), you can tap some more and then use the snapping groove in the tool to nibble up back to your score line. 


*Irregular / Free Form Cutting*
You can easily do free form cuts. I want the left side of the tank to be contoured or sloped, higher then the right side . The right side of the tank is where a small pool will be. With a sharpie I drew out on the glass where I wanted the cut to run. It is a good way of visualizing what the terrane will look like before you finalize the cut. It also gives me a focal point to help guide me as I make my cut.











Now you get to play with the scoring tool; starting your cut at very edge of the glass you smoothly, quickly, and with a firm hand, score along my curving line. The key is to make one, and only one, scoring cut. In the area where I wanted the line to be straight, I dropped my gloved little finger down and slide it along the edge of the glass while I am making the score. This allows me to gauge by feel that I am running straight.

Again its time to practice your morse code messaging by tapping the backside of the score / cut line with the heavy little ball. Tap back and forth along the entire length of the score line so that your score / fracture line is uniform. The more that you tap along the score line, the better your chance that you will have a good break. Listen to the sound of the tapping as you rap the glass. You should be able to detect a change in the sound of the tapping when you are ready to attempt to snap the piece off. Then lay the piece down along the score line, score side up, with the side you are attempting to break off being hung over the edge of the countertop. Then with one hand holding the piece down, gently snap down on the piece. If the glass does not break or snap off easily, do some more tapping.










*Free Glass*
You may have noticed the “Left Over” note on the glass, *I got this piece of glass for free*. I went to Lowes to purchase the glass for the lid of one of my tanks (Lowes will cut glass to size, Home Depot will not.) I had the sales person cut the lid down to size and then do an extra cut it where I wanted the lid to hinge. While we were talking, I noticed several long, narrow pieces of glass that were in the scrap / recycle bin. I asked the sales person if I could have one or two of the scrap pieces and he said sure. I got this piece of glass and another for nothing. If you get a couple pieces of scrap, you could do some practice cuts to get comfortable with the process.

*The Completed Snap*
It is not apparent due to the angle of the photo, but the drop in elevation is about 1 to 1 ½ inches until it gets to the pond area. At the pool, I attempted to run straight across so that the water level and the glass level run parallel.









*Sand the Edges*
With a sponge sanding pad, I sanded the entire length of the cut line to remove any sharp cutting edges. I still wear gloves to keep from accidentally cutting myself. A belt sander or palm sander with a very coarse grit of sand paper, 40 - 60 grit, will smooth up a rough cut nicely. One time when I was replacing a broken window pane, I cut the piece a tad too large. I used a belt sander to sand down the glass so that it fit properly within the opening. If you use a belt sander on glass, make sure that you run the sander in line with the edge of the glass and not across the edge. Also, don't hit the face of the glass because it will scratch the dickens out of it. 










*Installing the Bottom Track

Surface Prep.*
*Acetone*

I am planning on installing the bottom track with silicone. One of the major reasons that Silicone fails to bond to glass, which is the biggest reason leaks develop, is that the surface is oily or dirty. Oil from your skin, hand lotion, etc.can all interfere and prevent silicone from bonding. Acetone works very well in removing oil and grime. Acetone also easily removes the sharpie marks from the glass. Use a clean rag with Acetone on it to remove any grim. You can't always see the contaminate, so it is a good practice to get into if you want to insure a leak proof joint. Acetone then evaporates without leaving a residue so it won't interfere with the silicone being able to bond to the glass either. 

I have rubbed down the entire area with Acetone to aid in the bonding. 










*Masking Tape*
Next I laid out the location of where the vent screening will end. At this point I installed masking tape on the inside and outside of the joint.. The tape will allow me to slather in a good amount of silicone and still be able to have a clean straight line when I am done.









Needed to clean out the glass dust in order to have the silicone stick properly and fix my goofed up cut.










*Silicone / Track Installation*
Now I installed a layer of brown silicone, squeegeeing it out with cardboard. Then I squirted some silicone under the track supports, which will allow the track to bond well to the deck. Next the track is set into place and the screen is bedded down into the silicone. Then I smoothed the silicone, patting it lightly with wet fingers. I've found that spit works well to keep the silicone from sticking to my fingers as I am smoothing things out. Spit into a bowl and dip your fingers to keep them wet. That way you aren't ingesting the silicone. Water with a little dish soap will work as well. When I work with silicone I like to have a roll of toilet paper around to that I can regularly clean my fingers. On the interior or screen side of the tank I sloped the silicone towards the back and on a downward angle so that any mist or spray that gets down here will be held in a pool so that it can evaporate rather than run out the front. 









Next I removed the tape. At this point, I realized that I goofed up a bit. I should have covered the front surface of the track with tape as well. It took a bit of time cleaning the silicone from the face of the track. I also tipped the tank back and installed the door in order to weigh down the track and hold it in place while the silicone sets up. Tipping the door back also enables the door to rest tightly against the other glass. With everything set up, there is less than a 1/16 of an inch gap between the door and the tank sides. I tested the size of the gap with playing cards and the maximum size gap is about 2 playing cards deep. Don’t really have to worry about escapees.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

*Cleaned up and Curing*



















In retrospect, I might change one thing about the bottom track as I do this with other tanks in the future. I think I might install a piece of bronze screen metal underneath the track. Bronze screen metal is what I used for the vent at the top of the tank (discussed later). Doing this might do two things. 


 It would form a deeper pocket for misting drainage. I won’t know for a while how much water will eventually end up down there. I do have a way worked out if I need to install drainage to the area behind the track. We will see if I need it.

 Installing a metal bronze aluminum strip under the track would dress up the track so that no silicone is visible from the front. It would make the whole installation look like a manufacturer had installed it. As it is right now with the silicone looks really good. The only thing that I notice is that the silicone is a bit glossy. In the right light, it will reflect light and is just a slightly noticeable if the light catches it just right. 


*Installing the Top Track.*
I made a couple of minor adjustments to the location of the top track, shifting it down for a bit tighter fit before I siliconed it into place. This is an inside view of top of the tank after it has been siliconed in.









*Front View*









*Side View*
Notice how tight the glass fits together. I am betting that I won't even need to install a silicone gasket.









*Door Slides Open Bi-Directionally*


















It looks good and works extremely well ! ! !


*Installing Top Vent*
I purchased some window screen frame material. This is the material that aluminum window screens are made from. I used a hacksaw to cut it to length and then to cut a notch in the end of each side. The notch will allow me to slide it over and hang it from the plastic lip or flange at the top of the tank. Here is where I am sliding the screen frame down onto the lip of the tank, adjusting, and testing the fit. 



















Notice how the glass lid sits nice, tight and flush. There are no gaps as it spans over and sits on the screen metal. The glass top will be supported all the way across the front of the tank because of this. Plus, no escapee frogs or flies.









Here I am installing the screen onto the groove in the frame using black spline material. They sell black and light gray. I thought that black would blend and hide better.


----------



## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

This tool is a couple of dollars, but you could use a butter knife or screw driver to push the sline down into place if you don’t want to spurge on the tool. 

I installed the screen so that it came out on the backside of the metal. That way I could roll it over the top of the spline towards the front of the tank, thus hiding the spline.









*Cutting The Screen*









I used a ½ inch piece of plywood to keep vent spacing even rather than measuring. It was faster, easier, and more accurate.









Next I siliconed the screen material to the front flange of tank. I liked the nice crisp line that was created by installing the screen toward the backside of the tank. I then rolled it over the top of the spline towards the front of the tank, hiding the spline and hopefully making the joint little stronger in the process. I also liked how narrow the vent is. It leaves me with a much wider viewing area from the top.









Notice how the glass lid snuggles in and sits nice and tight on both the screen metal and on the plastic rim of the tank. 









*New Design for a Handle on the Glass Lid*
The white item in the middle of the glass is a new handle that I created which slides onto your standard window glass. I got tired of using tape or siliconing knobs to the top of the glass and having them break off after a few months because they stick up too high in the air and catch on things as you go by. The handle slides onto the glass and sits nice and low and flat. I also don’t have to worry about escapees because of how tight it fits to the tank.

Here it is on a different tank. I like how it just sits just a bit proud of the lip of the tank. I can open the tank with a just flick of my thumb.


















What do you all think?


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## zcasc

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Very interesting journal you have going here. It is incredibly detail-specific, which I think will definitely help out anyone who is trying to perform the same tasks as you. Keep it up, please!

As for your getting a job with Habitat for Humanity, congratulations (a little late, I know). My family and I went down to Mississippi to do work on a home through your organization and it is very gratifying work. 

Forgive me if I had missed it in an earlier posting, but what kind of frogs were you planning on tossing in here?


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## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



zcasc said:


> Very interesting journal you have going here. It is incredibly detail-specific, which I think will definitely help out anyone who is trying to perform the same tasks as you. Keep it up, please!


Thanks



> As for your getting a job with Habitat for Humanity, congratulations ... very gratifying work.


Yes, it is a lot of fun too. Happen to be home sick today.



> Forgive me if I had missed it in an earlier posting, but what kind of frogs were you planning on tossing in here?


Man Creeks


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## Dane

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

Looks pretty labor intensive. How much time did the transformation take?


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## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*



Dane said:


> Looks pretty labor intensive. How much time did the transformation take?


Actually Dane, it really isn't all that labor intensive. 


It took maybe a half an hour to set up and make the initial cuts in the glass. 


The actual installation of the track system took a couple of hours of messing over a couple of evenings. Most of the time was spent as i was trying to figure out the process and photograph the various things that I have outlined. There was also some time involving just letting the silicone dry before I could go on to the next step, but that is kind of like watching paint dry, boring, so I just went and watched TV one night and I plotted and planned out the next steps of the process. I also spent some time just sitting back and giggled like a school girl at how cool this all was really turning out. 


The actual track installation took me a total of two evenings to do as I was was figuring out the entire process and steps that I have outlined for you here. That also involved me milling the bottom vent portion of the track as I didn't see the need to pay for something that I could easily do myself. 


The top vent took maybe an hour total to make the cuts with a hacksaw, install the screen, and then cut and silicone everything in place. 


I did have a bit of store time going and getting the silicone, tape, screen, screen metal material, spline material, etc., but as a guy, Home Depot is like a candy store for a kid. 


The things that took me the most time and a bit of money involved coming up with a manufacturer that could make me the track material as I designed it. After I did this, it was extremely discouraging when I thought that I was going to have to scrap the whole tank because I couldn't figure out how to get the glass off after I had already made the cuts in the glass. The tank literally sat for 6 - 7 months after I failed to figure out how to get the glass door separated from the tank. Once I got on the right track with the razorblades, it took me maybe 15 -20 minutes to get the glass off. And there is no telling how much more time that process took because of the chips and pits that I had generated in the edge of the glass as a result of my using the wrong tools initially.This allowed the razor blade to catch and hang up in a lot of areas.

No Dane, the process really isn't all that labor intensive. Heck, documenting and photographing the processes took much more time than it actually took doing the installation. I guess that I'm doing this all of this documentation because I am a teacher at heart. I've taught in High School, College, in Youth Departments at Church, and I do it on a daily basis at Habitat. I'm also darn creative. I'm really good at figuring out how to make things work as I think you can see.

Once I envisioned how to make this work, I put my money where my mouth is so to speak. I found a company that made the initial track material for me. I have an agreement with them that they will make me more at a better price now that the initial design work is done. I spent the time and money because I envisioned the tremendous potential that this could have for so many people. After all, most people build their the vast majority of their tanks out of some form of your standard aquarium. If there is an interest, I could see possibly putting together some kits which would have the top and bottom track, top vent metal, as well as the screen, and spline material that folks would need to do this installation in their own tanks. All one would really need would be a hacksaw to trim the pieces to fit their tanks. I might even be interested in putting together a few of the aquariums if folks didn't want to invest in or rent the saw that would be needed.

Maybe I'm dreaming, but as you can see, I'm pretty good at making my dreams a reality. Maybe I'm dreaming because it is 1:07 in the morning. Who knows.


Well, let me know what you think.


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## davecalk

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I knew that I had taken some photos of the process that was involved with cutting the aquarium glass.

I started the process by laying out from the bottom glass upward the locations of the three cuts needed to make the door and track height. The bottom cut is just above the glass in the bottom of the tank. The top cut is made about ¼ of an inch below the plastic rim of the tank. The bottom of the door once it is cut out, when it is sitting on the track it will have about 3/16 of an inch clearance from the installed top track. 

Because I used a tile wet saw to make my cuts, I needed to draw both start and stop lines on the deck of the saw which correlates to the top and bottom cuts of the glass’ thickness. This is needed because the wet saw blade is at a fixed height (As you will see in a later photo). The lines are needed so that I could make a blind start and stop cut without cutting into the glass on the sides of the tank. 









This cut would be a bit easier to do using a wet cutting circular saw like the one in the photo I posted earlier. If you use a handheld tile saw you wouldn’t have to worry start and stop marks or about cutting into the side glass. All you would need to do is set the depth of the saw’s cut to the proper height so you are just barely cutting through the thickness of the glass.


To lay out these marks, I used a speed square. 










I hooked the speed square into one miter grooves, the slots that run from the front to the back of the table top which are parallel to the cutting plane of the blade, and slid the speed square toward the blade until it just touches the blade. Then I marked that location with a sharpie on the top of the saw. 

Next I hot glued a piece of wood to the top or deck of the saw to support the tank in a level position. The plastic lip on the top of the tank raises the glass off of the deck. The other plastic rim extends off the edge of the saw so without the spacer which the glass rests on, my cuts would have a bevel, and the door would not sit flat on the track. I used a painters stirring stick, which is approximately 1/8 inch thick, in order to hold the aquarium tank up. Doing this also protected the glass from sliding and potentially being scratched by the saw’s metal top. Again, this would not be needed if you used the hand held wet saw.

Now I covered the interior walls and foam rock with plastic grocery bags to protect the features from the water slurry of glass dust that is created while making the cuts.










The first cut that I made was at the top of the tank. With a tape measure, I adjusted the fence to make this first cut. I set the saw so that the initial cut was about ¼ of an inch below the plastic rim at the top of the tank. This left about a quarter of an inch of glass exposed below the plastic lip. 

Then second cut makes the overall height of the door so you will need to calculate and lay things out carefully. You need to take into account the height of the shelf that the glass door rests and slides on taking off about 3/16 of an inch extra for the space or gap which is at the top of the door.

The final cut is the cut should align or be just above with the bottom or floor of the tank. I messed up this measurement and ended up cutting into the bottom of the tank by just a bit.


To make the cuts, I aligned the tank top tight to the fence. Also align the edge of the glass with the start marks that were marked on the deck. Tip the saw back so that the blade was not touching the glass, before turning on the saw. 









Also make sure that you have water in the tub, or if you are using a handle held tile saw make sure that the water is turned on, before you start the cut. Then turn on the saw and slowly lower the tank onto the spinning blade. Each cut will take maybe a minute to make.


Cut One Complete



















Cuts Two & Three Complete









Cut Three / Floor Cut
When making the floor cut, I shut the saw off after I made the plunge cut. I did this to check to make sure that my cut alignment with relation to the floor was correct. 









I’m glad that I checked because my cut was not aligned quite right. I actually cut into the floor a bit on the first plunge. I just needed to shift the fence over and restart my cut. The second time around the cut was just right.

Now it's time to clean up the glass slurry. Use gloves and care, because there may be sharp little slivers of glass in the slurry mix. Not many, but they are there and they can cut fingers. Then unbag the covered back. I then used a utility knife to cut down and remove / clean up the plastic lip at the bottom of the tank.

Next I attempted to cut the silicone that was holding the door in place using a wire saw, made by threading stainless steel wire through the cut in the glass and wrapping it around a couple pieces of wood. This forms a wire pull saw. I used a sawing / floss your teeth like motion to try and make the cut. 

















This actually didn’t work very well. As I would attempt to cut the silicone the wire would bind up which would then snap the wire in two. I went through a dozen pieces of wire in five – ten minutes and had only produced maybe a ¼ inch cut. I was sorely frustrated.


Everything worked out in the end once I figured out how to separate the glass using a razorblade.


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## BR5

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I remember seeing this but forgot to mark it, it's marked now. Thanks Dave for taking the time to share.
Brian


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## jacobi

*Re: Detailed Journal / Colored Foam / Tank Rear Access / Artificial Vines & Stumps*

I just ran across this thread a couple weeks ago, and I can't believe I haven't seen it before. First of all, thank you Dave for the detailed journal! I'd love to know what happened with this setup, and how it turned out. 

Dave mentions using tempera powdered paint. I was wondering whether anyone knows about the safety of using those colours for the inhabitants of a tropical vivarium. I vaguely remember reading somewhere that certain colours are toxic to amphibians because of their metal content.


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## Nar

Will have to log on a computer for no pic load on my phone but geat read and would love to try one day


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