# Confirming Frog ID



## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

These were sent to us as Yellow Back Tincs, but I am thinking Galacs. Looking to see what everyone else thinks. Thanks!


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

They are not yellowback tincs and I would say your guess is correct.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

yes - they look like galacs - but you need to follow up with the person who sent them to you.

See where they got them, etc... go as far back as you can to find the true identity of them. In addition, what if they are a cross? You need to find as much information as you can from the person you purchased them from.

If they decide to breed, eggs will be different also. But, posting a picture here for comment & guessing isn't a great way to ID your frogs. For example, there is another selectively breed Yellowback called Saul - it is mostly black.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

Is that an X on their head?


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

definitly look like galacts, but what is up with the X on their heads


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Definitely not yellow back tincs. Looks to be yellow galactonotus. You can inquire to see if they are by any chance hybrids, but I would think the hybrid wouldn't look exactly like a yellow galactonotus.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

look like galacts to me as well


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## d-prime (Sep 29, 2008)

YEllow gallacts, and if so you lucked out because they are worth more and rarer.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

d-prime said:


> YEllow gallacts, and if so you lucked out because they are worth more and rarer.


Not if he was after tincs. Granted the monetary value may be more, value is only what your willing to pay. Example, I order a pair of lamasi and instead get pumilio I'm gonna be disappointed. Sure the market value is better, but what if working with pums is not of interest to me. Anyways, hopefully you can come to an arrangement that all can be happy with. They look like nice frogs either way.
I agree that they appear to be galacs.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

jubjub47 said:


> Not if he was after tincs. Granted the monetary value may be more, value is only what your willing to pay. Example, I order a pair of lamasi and instead get pumilio I'm gonna be disappointed. Sure the market value is better, but what if working with pums is not of interest to me. Anyways, hopefully you can come to an arrangement that all can be happy with. They look like nice frogs either way.
> I agree that they appear to be galacs.


A flip side to this is if he finds out they are a hybrid. Then they're worth nothing. I wouldn't totally dismiss that possibility yet especially if he was told they were the wrong thing to begin with.

EDIT: By the way I'm not saying they are a hybrid I honestly have no clue one way or the other just stating a possibility.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

dwdragon said:


> A flip side to this is if he finds out they are a hybrid. Then they're worth nothing. I wouldn't totally dismiss that possibility yet especially if he was told they were the wrong thing to begin with.
> 
> EDIT: By the way I'm not saying they are a hybrid I honestly have no clue one way or the other just stating a possibility.


That's correct. I'm going on the assumption that the frogs are just misidentified though. I hate to see someone not get what they think they are getting. 

It's also quite possible that the person that he bought them from sent the wrong frogs to the wrong people. I still think they look like galacs.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

I'll bet that somewhere down the line the name 'Yellow Splashed-Back" as they are often called just got fouled and re-written as yellow-back. Those are galacts, and I doubt they're a cross.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

well said Tim


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Thnx Troy.


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## allyn (Oct 6, 2008)

what are the "x"s on their heads? they almost look drawn on


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

Has anyone ever heard of a Galact hybrid? They're not in the tinc group, so a hybrid might not even be possible.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

i dont consider any thing in the tinc group a hybrid, i consider it a cross morph being that they are the same species, just crossing the morph. and all tincs that i kno of have a very similar call

now a leuc x auratus, leuc x tinc, galact x leuc, etc. etc. being all different species of dendrobates...

but no i have never heard of hybrid galact but what would happen if u cross a red galact and yellow galact? = orange??? i know thats how paint works!! LOL but im guessing mixing those two colors on a frog would not be the same result that as of PAINT LOL


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

I should have clarified. Leucs, Auratus, Tincs and Azureus are all in the Tinc Group, and they can all interbreed. Galacts are not in the same group, so I am curious if they can still hybridize with them (I'm pretty sure that different glact morphs could hybridize). Someone posted a good phylogenetic tree on here once which shows which frogs are most closely related, but I can't find it anymore.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

markbudde said:


> I should have clarified. Leucs, Auratus, Tincs and Azureus are all in the Tinc Group, and they can all interbreed. Galacts are not in the same group, so I am curious if they can still hybridize with them (I'm pretty sure that different glact morphs could hybridize). Someone posted a good phylogenetic tree on here once which shows which frogs are most closely related, but I can't find it anymore.


ahhh got ya, i was always so confused how a tinc could be breed with a luec being that their calls are on like complete opposite sides of the spectrum, on another note i have read that galacts are a part of the tinc group


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

OK, found it.









You can see from that tree that galacts are as close to tincs as they are to pumilio.
-mark


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

yeah thanks for posting, what i found interesting is that some of the sites and tables that i researched for the tinc group had either 5 or 6.... your table shown was the first i saw with the galacts out of the tinc group ill post some sites where i was reading this

Dendrobates auratus (Girard, 1854) Green & Black Poison Frog

dart frogs
-read the tinctorius section

Dendrobates Tinctorius at www.poison-frogs.com
- read under the classification

Taxonomic history of the genus Dendrobates
-read under tinctorius group

these are just a few examples im not sayin if im right or wrong i just thought it was interesting to see some tables were different than others, but all the ones i see with the tinctorius group do include the galactonotus


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

I think they used to be grouped with tincs because it wasn't clear where else to place them. Genetic analysis made some relationships a lot easier. For example, all thumbs used to be in the quinq group, but now the quinq group hardly has any thumbs. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that galacts and quinq are closely related. Also, you can see the clear distinction between imitator and the species they mimic. So, getting back to the original point, I would be surprised if galacts and tincs could interbreed.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

id be surprised if they could too, but then again id be surprised if leucs and tincs could even tho they are in the same group....at least for now...


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

Leucs, Tincs and Auratus have all been hybridized to produce viable offspring.
There is a pic of a leuc x tinc here

There are a couple pictures of Leuc x Auratus hybrids in Jewels of the Rainforest, but they are uglier than either parent.

And here is a second phylogenetic tree constructed by genetic analysis which shows essentially the same as the other one.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

markbudde said:


> ... So, getting back to the original point, I would be surprised if galacts and tincs could interbreed.


I don't know what that source is for that data but I've always put galacs as part of the tinctorious "tribe" or group. I don't know why you would put a non egg-feed in the same group as an egg-feeder (quinqs). I believe they would interbreed just like leucs, auratus, azureus, tincs.


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

That phylogentic tree was constructed using DNA sequencing of cytochrome b and cytochrome oxidase 1. The paper can be found here:
Neotropical diversification: the effects of a complex history on diversity within the poison frog genus Dendrobates. Noonan BP and Wray KP. Journal of Biogeography. Volume 33 Issue 6, Pages 1007 - 1020. 2006. 
It's a pretty interesting read if your into scientific papers and I think it really shows the value of DNA sequencing for phylogenetic analysis.

If you need to the pdf, shoot me a PM with your email.
-mark


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