# Glass door FF Fridge



## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

So, the # of Fruit Fly cultures we've been making has had to keep up with the # of Frogs, froglets, and tanks we have. Here in Colorado, our humidity usually hovers around the teens at best. We have to literally mist the inside of our cultures when feeding from them, in order to extend their life. The top of our culture media can even dry out BEFORE maggots begin to emerge because the media dosent stay moist enough. We've toyed with the idea of a full build of some sort of FF rack, but dont really have the time, and would take to much $$ to meet our expectations. We've seen and read about other froggers wine cooler builds, and quite frankly, they wouldn't even hold a portion of the cultures we have going at any time. Ideally (if were on top of our culturing), we have 60-80 glass mason jar cultures going at any time, so we need something that will accommodate that volume. Think something 7 feet tall. Caught your attention yet? We found something really neat locally. Fortunately, wont be allot to modify, build or adapt to. Just needs cleaned up. But we would love any tips or recommendations from others that have taken on something like this. Some of our concerns will be discussed and mentioned as we go along.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Notice all the ugly Hikari brand labeling and promoting. Yes, we got this from a LFS. Luckily, alll those stickers and paint come off without much effort.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Look at all that dust!



The "enviromental controls".



The light box logo thats going to have to come off


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

And the entire thing, cleaned up, de-logo'd, and ready for the shelves to be put back in. The LFS we got it from told us it ran and cooled fine, but the defrost cycle time wasn't working. Initially wasn't really thinking of using any of the refrigeration components whatsoever. But it would be helpful if we could regulate the temp to no higher than low 80's, and no lower than high 70's. The heating is easily accomplished in various ways such as incandescent bulbs, heat mats or ceramic reptile heaters. But.........it appears the capability to cool has gone down the toilet. The compressor, fans and such run, but nothing cools down. Most likely, there's a leak, and the majority of the coolant is gone. Could be fairly expensive to repair. With AC running, the frogroom usually doesn't exceed low 80's, so we may not even need to think about cooling. Ideas, thoughts, foreseen problems? One thought is a possible problem with no airflow, stagnant air and possible molding.


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## Bighurt (Jun 18, 2011)

I'd call around and see what it costs to service the unit. You maybe surprised particularly if you go to them.

Never hurts to ask right.

Otherwise if you really had to I've seen DIY swamp coolers that may help. All you need is to maintain 80°F or lower so we aren't talking much.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Really thinking were just going to use the lighting and not using any refrigeration. Anything more is just going to get to complicated and expensive


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, apparently this is what happens when the humidity gets to high inside our Fruit fly fridge. Our Suriname Cobalt pair got a treat of a tablespoon worth of FF maggots which they quickly gobbled up.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Have you considered using tyvek? Might be able to raise the humidity without the need for a cabinet.


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

*Temp and Humidity Targets?*

Nice effort! 

I agree that getting the refrigeration going isn't necessary.

I'm pretty much an electrical nitwit, but it seems to me that one of these controllers - Humidity Controller | eBay - could be hooked up to a small computer fan to exhaust humid air out of the unit when it gets too high.

*Are there any target numbers for both humidity and temperature in an ideal FF culturing environment? * There's probably some variation within FF species, but what would the ideal numbers be for culturing multiple species in a unit like this?

Regards...


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, we cant find any "studies" showing the "ideal" temp and humidity, but we know a few important factors. To low of a temperature, and the cultures are slow to produce and lower yield along with a higher chance of molding. Too high of a temperature and yield will also fall, and the modified genetics (having to do with proteins, etc) come undone and they can regain the ability to fly. The sweet spot seems to be mid to high 70's with similar humidity level. Currently, if we do not mist the inside of the cultures when we harvest flies, the cultures will dry out within 3 weeks and there will never be any second or third generations of any significance. 

Were guessing right now, with the maggots trying to get out of the jar, that either the humidity is to high, or there is an accumulation of gases in the culture because of a lack of airflow. 

Maybe someone experienced in large scale production, or laboratory fly production could chime in. Maybe Ed will see this thread


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## vachyner (Aug 10, 2013)

I'm down just south of you in the 'Springs and keep my cultures in the basement. When I was using paper towels like you pictured, my cultures dried up quickly. Now what I do is use the dollar tree green top containers, cut the center out, run a permanent glue stick around it, slap on a coffee filter, and trim it down. The coffee filters seem to retain the humidity inside much better. My culture media stays super moist and outlasts the flys (by that I mean still moist when they are super stunted.) Since I started making them this way I haven't had to mist them at all. If you're wondering what the humidity sits at in the house - my knuckles are bleeding as I type this.


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## Tzunu'un (Apr 15, 2014)

I've seen it suggested that humidity should be between 60-80% for culturing fruit flies.

Mid 70's in temp is ideal. The development time doesn't change too much between 70-80 deg F. 
For D. melanogaster as an example, generation time is approximately: 7 days at 84°F, 9 days at 77°F, 11 days at 72°F, 19 days at 64°F (info from Bloomington Stock Center). These generation times are longer for hydei.


I also agree that your cultures are too humid/wet..so you will need to compensate by lowering the amount of water in your mix.
(perhaps your water/mix ratio was previously optimized for your low humidity conditions ?).

The larvae will climb to the lid once humidity levels get high enough there and track media, etc with them.

When the paper towel or coffee filter is damp, the larvae will eat it .... especially true for hydei which I find are voracious in devouring wet coffee filters in the media. They can't get through the fabric type lids.

It would be easier for you to adjust the water/mix ratio for the new conditions than mess with altering humidity in the new cabinet.

Good Luck!

James


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Agree, all these batches of cultures were optimized for very low humidity conditions with a high rate of evaporation from the cultures. Consequently, with high humidity in the freezer, theres no evaporation from the cultures leaving them on the soupier side. We made a new set of twelve cultures last night, with much less water content, so we will see how that goes.


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## dendrorani (Jan 30, 2009)

I would probably be certain that by adjusting your water portion in the media, you will get the perfect amount of humidity in your cultures and in the cooler. I would definitely keep them in the Hikari cooler as you will have better control on overall parameters. 

I too have very dry conditions because of my air exchanger which keeps my house at 40% humidity. Good for humans but bad for flies as they thrive better around 60-70% humidity.

Adjust water mix and keep in cooler, let us know how it works out.

Just some thoughts,

Rani

PS: I too have to add water to my cultures after about 2 weeks or I will loose all further production. So I will be having something enclosed similar to your cooler to keep my cultures going...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I would suggest getting a humidistat fan controller and use this to ventilate the cooler and add a second fan that comes on a routine intervals inside the cooler to prevent the buildup of CO2 at the bottom of the cooler (or cut a couple of vent holes to let it escape out the base). 
With respect to humidity and temperature and the flies, the optimal temperature depends on what you are looking for out of the flies. As an example if all that matters is production then you probably have a wider 
variety of conditions that will work for you. If instead you are looking to say optimize production but produce a smaller or larger sized fly then the conditions are going to be much narrower as a result. 
See for example http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1297-9686-26-3-229.pdf

Some comments 

Ed


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I thought I'd update this thread for those that may have had ideas in the same direction.

First: As far as increasing humidity and cultures not drying out to quickly, this was a success. Same with temperature. Stats were ideal. I did need to add a small fan for air circulation and to prevent CO2 from "pooling".

Second: And here is the downside. In this enviroment, humidity, temps, and cultures in close proximity, Mites went WILD beyond my belief. Despite using mite paper, they covered every quare inch of the inside front glass, the sides, the shelves, everywhere. I could not control them. I could eventually keep the large majority off the cultures, yet they proliferated everywhere inside the fridge. Fridge got tossed out after 6 months of this experiment.

Humidity in my frogroom, with 20+ tanks, all my iso, springtail cultures, tadpoles, etc, still hovers very low 20-40%. My only recourse is to start cultures out very wet, and to spray them when they are open.


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