# Tell me these are just worms!



## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

I was just doing some cleanup on my variabilis tank and found what looked like an earth worm in the filter for my waterfall. This worm was about 2.5 inches long.

Then I saw another smaller worm like creature in the bed of the waterfall, so I grabbed some photos of it. Please tell me that they are just earth worms and not nema-nasties.









http://i.imgur.com/9jLhFIx.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/kNlH65t.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/qUxkiDK.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/Lyi3VRE.jpg









http://i.imgur.com/HjglaVF.jpg

Sorry for the blurry shots, was using an extension tube with low light and no tripod. Hopefully you can still tell me what it is before I panic!

Thanks,
Nathan


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Does that one end seem to look around kind of like a probe? If so, do a search for "nemertean" and "nemerteans" on here.


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

Leach, many species feed on organic debris.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Looks just like a proboscis nemertean to me. Note that you can see its proboscis curled over in the pics- leaches do not have that extended proboscis


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

Saw it on a cell, with the tablet, I agree. 



frogparty said:


> Looks just like a proboscis nemertean to me. Note that you can see its proboscis curled over in the pics- leaches do not have that extended proboscis


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Pics 3-5 look just like leeches. The first two pics are the best for identification


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Sorry OP, looks like you got the nasties


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Say goodbye to springtails


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## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

Damn nightmarish thing!


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

They make my stomach turn. Every time I see one of these threads, I start eyeing my Vivs a little closer. Sry for your misfortune, Nath.


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## Johno2090 (Aug 31, 2011)

I don't get why people hate them so much it's just another teir of nature in our vivs. I've had them in my vivs before and even though there was a decline in springtails I noticed a lot more woodlice. 

I think they are quite interesting to watch hunt fruitflies too!


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Well darn. I was really hoping they were not nermeteans. Now I have to figure out what to do. Don't really think destroying the viv is an option, and I am guessing if they are in one viv they are probably in all my vivs. Looks like I will need to keep several springtail cultures so I can keep the populations up.


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

There has been a lot of discussion about isos possibly helping to control there populations. Although most of the threads are over a year old. Does anyone have any new ideas on this. If anyone has had any success I will be loading the tank with isos.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Best bet is giant orange isopods. They're built like tanks, active as hell and they're thought to eat they're eggs and young.


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

GP dynamite said:


> Best bet is giant orange isopods. They're built like tanks, active as hell and they're bought to eat they're eggs and young.


Are they ok to have in a variabilis tank? They aren't so big they would pose harm to the little frogs right?


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Also who is currently selling the giant orange isos, looks like I will be buying some. Need to do some research on how to best culture them so I can keep adding them to the vivs.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Nath514 said:


> Are they ok to have in a variabilis tank? They aren't so big they would pose harm to the little frogs right?


I never heard of isopods attacking frogs. 



Nath514 said:


> Also who is currently selling the giant orange isos, looks like I will be buying some. Need to do some research on how to best culture them so I can keep adding them to the vivs.


Here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/66991-how-culture-isopods-woodlice-springtails.html


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

JPccusa said:


> I never heard of isopods attacking frogs.
> 
> 
> 
> Here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/66991-how-culture-isopods-woodlice-springtails.html


Thanks!

I will work on getting cultures setup tonight in preparation of getting the isos.


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## boombotty (Oct 12, 2005)

One good thing about these little bastards is that they will eat snails. I caught one eating a snail in one of my tanks this morning before the lights were on.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Giant orange isos are great... I have noticed some small whitish nemerteans in one of my tanks, but my isos seem to be doing fine. The orange isos will grow quite large... 

One bit of advice.. Make sure your isos have enough leaf litter or other foods to much on. They can destroy your plants quickly if they go hungry. Ask me how I know.....


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

I'd like to see an experiment to see if giant oranges actually eat nemertean eggs or baby nemerteans. Maybe catch a couple nemerteans, keep them in a container with paper towels or something, and feed them FFs. Once you see eggs/babies, throw some adult giant oranges in there and see what they do...


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

goof901 said:


> I'd like to see an experiment to see if giant oranges actually eat nemertean eggs or baby nemerteans. Maybe catch a couple nemerteans, keep them in a container with paper towels or something, and feed them FFs. Once you see eggs/babies, throw some adult giant oranges in there and see what they do...


Me too. I'm surprised this hasn't been already done. I've only ever read that nemertean populations are reduced when isos are present in the tank. Maybe it's a coincidence and they just die off due to the mini ecosystems inability to support larger numbers. Anyone ?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Nath, you willing to try this?


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

LizardLicker said:


> Giant orange isos are great... I have noticed some small *whitish* nemerteans in one of my tanks...


I wonder if those are nematodes that you describe, lizardlicker. I believe there was a thread describing how one goes about distinguishing them. I remember something being said about them being less harmful than nemerteans.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Or these?!?

Attack of the Giant Leeches (1959) - Trailer - YouTube

Seriously--I have to believe that if the presence of isopods reduces the number of nemerteans, then it has to be one of two reasons:

1) Competition
2) Predation

I have to believe it is #2, predation; competition should cause their populations to stabilize in a sort of equilibrium.

My question is this: How the hell do nemerteans get into vivaria? Via plants? If so, I guess that anti-nematode protocols do not work on (unrelated) nemerteans.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

GP dynamite said:


> I wonder if those are nematodes that you describe, lizardlicker. I believe there was a thread describing how one goes about distinguishing them. I remember something being said about them being less harmful than nemerteans.


Well, I thought about that. However, there is one end of these worms that I am seeing that kind of waves back and forth as they move around. 

The behavior looks more like a nemertean to me, but I have been wrong before.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

LizardLicker said:


> Well, I thought about that. However, there is one end of these worms that I am seeing that kind of waves back and forth as they move around.
> 
> The behavior looks more like a nemertean to me, but I have been wrong before.


Nematodes are tiny, almost thread like. I haven't noticed them having an end that waves around.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

At least one of the terrestrial nemerteans we see in the hobby are able to form a resting cocoon under adverse conditions and I strongly suspect that this allows them to survive treatments... (and I think the main source of them is contaminated plants..). 

The whole thing about the orange isopods feeding on the nemerteans is based on some observations using a different terrestrial isopod, Oniscus asellus... Which is a larger isopod that doesn't do well in typical dendrobatid enclosures. It was hypothesized that the giant orange may also feed on the nemerteans (see this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/identification-forum/78350-what-2.html) resulting in the entrenchment that they work.... ... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogface said:


> Nematodes are tiny, almost thread like. I haven't noticed them having an end that waves around.


While many nematodes are small, there are many that are larger...(up to ten meters in length... (see for example Nematoda (Nematodes or Roundworms) )) 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

GP dynamite said:


> I believe there was a thread describing how one goes about distinguishing them.


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...snag-good-photo-these-buggers.html#post784122


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Got more springtail setups going and two isopod cultures following Doug's instructions! Also made some cinnamon water to take care of some mold problems.

Sorry for the sideways picture, uploaded from my phone.

















Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Get some mite paper under those cultures or you'll be fighting an uphill battle, Nath.


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

GP dynamite said:


> Get some mite paper under those cultures or you'll be fighting an uphill battle, Nath.



Will do, they were only sitting there because I just made them. Their final home will be on top some mite paper!


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## BALDITO (Sep 17, 2012)

Found something similar in my viv this morning


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

I still haven't been able to get a hold or giant orange isos, so if someone has some for sale please let me know.

As for the worm like devils I have been finding more and more of them, some are small others are 2 inches long. The tank also is currently in the middle of a massive snail invasion which I am fighting with lettuce.

Overall conditions in the tank seem to be spiraling out of control


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Ouch. Sorry you're hang such a hard time with the nemerteans and now snails. Rough man. Reach out to Mike Rizzo at glassboxtropicals.com I know he had them for sale.


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## CJ PELCH (Apr 9, 2013)

*nemertean*

I did a complete breakdown of my tank to get rid of them...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Nath514 said:


> I still haven't been able to get a hold or giant orange isos, so if someone has some for sale please let me know.
> 
> As for the worm like devils I have been finding more and more of them, some are small others are 2 inches long. The tank also is currently in the middle of a massive snail invasion which I am fighting with lettuce.
> 
> Overall conditions in the tank seem to be spiraling out of control


This is not uncommon when the enclosures are first set up.. keep baiting and wait it out. Don't be surprised if the snail population begins to nose dive as the nemerteans clean out the microfauna and begin to predate on them... (based on some anecdotal observations). Dwarf isopods seem to persist well during nemertean population climbs. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Ed said:


> This is not uncommon when the enclosures are first set up.. keep baiting and wait it out. Don't be surprised if the snail population begins to nose dive as the nemerteans clean out the microfauna and begin to predate on them... (based on some anecdotal observations). Dwarf isopods seem to persist well during nemertean population climbs.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


The snails I am not as worried about because the lettuce seems to be working great. I am pulling about 10 snails out of the tank every morning. Its the nemerteans that are bothersome. I was only seeing one every couple weeks, but now I am pulling them out several a day.

I think it is also possible that I have a worm problem other than nemerteans, as I have found a bunch of worms that are 2 inches long and look more like earth worms. 

Thanks for the advice Ed. I will try to get some dwarf isos in the tank soon.


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