# How do they choose what frogs are legal to own and what frogs are not?



## Saved Soul (Jul 28, 2008)

How do they choose what dart frogs are legal to own and what dart frogs are not? And I have another question.. Well, it sorta a opinion too.. If a species of frog is going extinct shouldn't people be allowed to breed them so that there are more frogs and then even if they go extinct in the wild there will still be some in captivity to rebuild the population? I know im not alone in this thinking but I would be more then willing to breed them just to let them go.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

A species' legality in the trade ultimately falls on the shoulders of the country of origin. Countries have trade rights over all the wildlife within their borders; Colombia and Australia are two countries that come to mind that are completely closed to the pet trade (although Colombia does allow the export of farm-raised boas and iguanas, as well as tropical fish).


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Saved Soul said:


> If a species of frog is going extinct shouldn't people be allowed to breed them so that there are more frogs and then even if they go extinct in the wild there will still be some in captivity to rebuild the population? I know im not alone in this thinking but I would be more then willing to breed them just to let them go.


This has been discussed a number of times and the reason behind this is that there are strict criteria and oversight for any animals that are going to be repatriated. There is the question of ensuring that the maximum genetic diverisity is maintained. This may result in you having no say over which frogs are then bred together, in addition you have to maintain a strict biosecurity to prevent the frogs from being asymptomatic carriers of a novel pathogen to the enviroment which can then cause problems (think about chytridmycosis, lungworm (if its not the native species there) or even strains of other parasites like coccidia). 

Outside of those issues above, the hobby part of the private sector has not done a real great job in even keeping the species we have access to available. Often the interest in the hobby is for some cool looking species that they currently don't have access to (like Atelopus zeteki) or the hot new "rare" in the hobby morph. Rarely is there any interest in small uncolored species...and even with the neater morphs and species, these undergo popularity cycles where they can virtually disappear resulting in loss of genetic variation. This is one of the things TWI's ASN is looking to change but until we show that the hobby is responsible with what we do have... it extremely unlikely that we will be allowed to breed them... 

Off the soapbox

Ed


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

The only thing that limits us is funding. Working as one amorphous blob w/ no one keeping track(as in agriculture) who is breeding how many of what, each year and how many are needed will always create this bottlenecking of genes. Given a moderator and a certain # of breeders it could be managed for the pet trade but since they take 6 months or more from eggs to even be saleable when a new morph comes out (or old for that matter) and 3-10 people have very good success breeding them, they flood the market, drop the price and they become unwanted. Even morphs like azureus. The problem w/ the pet trade managing animals will always be money. People looking just to make a buck and use it out of the hobby and lack of the ability to keep up a large collections and keeping records, competing w/ someone living at home and selling frogs for less than what a business could sell them for will always leave it up to the masses of hobbyists to keep records and keep them alive.
It`s up to a LOT of people keeping small collections and breeding them as little as possible and keeping them alive as long as possible and not leaving the hobby that may work on keeping morphs alive in the hobby. Once I thought Granuliferous and lehmanni/histo/sylvaticus would be harder to keep going in the hobby but their low prolificity and hi price makes them the best candidate for longevity since a lot of people could produce less than a dozen offspring per year allowing for more people to breed them and mix bloodlines. Right now I see Escudos as the best possibility for longevity IF people keep the originals alive and since we don`t know their age, keep back unrelated offspring for your next breeders.



Ed said:


> This has been discussed a number of times and the reason behind this is that there are strict criteria and oversight for any animals that are going to be repatriated. There is the question of ensuring that the maximum genetic diverisity is maintained. This may result in you having no say over which frogs are then bred together, in addition you have to maintain a strict biosecurity to prevent the frogs from being asymptomatic carriers of a novel pathogen to the enviroment which can then cause problems (think about chytridmycosis, lungworm (if its not the native species there) or even strains of other parasites like coccidia).
> 
> Outside of those issues above, the hobby part of the private sector has not done a real great job in even keeping the species we have access to available. Often the interest in the hobby is for some cool looking species that they currently don't have access to (like Atelopus zeteki) or the hot new "rare" in the hobby morph. Rarely is there any interest in small uncolored species...and even with the neater morphs and species, these undergo popularity cycles where they can virtually disappear resulting in loss of genetic variation. This is one of the things TWI's ASN is looking to change but until we show that the hobby is responsible with what we do have... it extremely unlikely that we will be allowed to breed them...
> 
> ...


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