# Two months later!!!!



## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

THIS IS NOT A POST FOR OTHERS TO LECTURE ME ABOUT. It is purely an accident that took amost two months to figure out. About 2 months ago I had been doing some tank renovation and had place a female orange/red El Dorado female in a temporary tank housing 1.1.1 group of White batis(it was a temp tank for Bastis also). I made sure that they had plenty of room, hiding spots, and food to eat minimizing the least amount of stress possible. About two weeks after placing them in their temp tank, their permanent tank were done and THAT WAS WHEN I NOTICE A CLUTCH OF EGGS ON A BROMILIAD. It was fertile and the tads were moving around. I didn't know which of frog laid the eggs but I had already removed the four frogs. I didn't think it was the El dorado female but I wasn't 100% sure. I cut the piece of brom off that was holding the eggs and kept in afloat in a bottle cap with a couple drops of water. Now about two months later I've come to a conclusion that this tad is a HYBRID! One of the tad is developing AMAZINGLY. The back leg is almost twice the size of my other pumilio's tads. You can see the White spots around the elbows and legs from white male basti and the orange/red body from the female Eldo. 

Tad

















Male Basti









Female Eldo









Cheers,
Ethin


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

What did you feed the tads?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

^ exactly. did you feed them?

james


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## jfehr232 (Apr 13, 2009)

Yea...did you let the mother feed them or did you? So what are you going to do with the froglet then?


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## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

That is going to be one sweet looking frog. Please send me a PM if you decide to sell any of them.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Jellyman said:


> That is going to be one sweet looking frog. Please send me a PM if you decide to sell any of them.


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## jfehr232 (Apr 13, 2009)

edwing206 said:


>


I was thinking the same thing......


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## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

jfehr232 said:


> I was thinking the same thing......


Too each his own. I make no apologies for liking something different then the rest. It is no different then the hybrid plants that most everyone keeps and have no issue with in their vivs.


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## BBoyette (Mar 9, 2009)

As stated at the start of the thread it was a accident...accidents happen if not most of us wouldn't exist to be.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

That's not the part that I was referring to. I know it was an accident, because he said so.
I was referring to Jellyman's comment. 


MaxB22 said:


> As stated at the start of the thread it was a accident...accidents happen if not most of us wouldn't exist to be.


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## BBoyette (Mar 9, 2009)

Luis- my comment wasn't directed at you or anyone else...just wanted to clear that up.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I got you Max, no worries.


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## Arrynia (Dec 27, 2009)

to the OP...I truly hope you have no intentions of passing these froglets on.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Ethin, if you need to move them let me know and I'll add them to my pumilio orphanage at the office.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Ethin, Did you or the frogs rear the tad? If it was you would you share your method with us? thanks Bill


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I think it would be cool to have one of those frogs. I know people dont like hybrids, but imo i dont see anything wrong with selling those to people, IF they know what exactly they are buying and they know its a hybrid.


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## ErickG (Nov 28, 2004)

I, too, would like to know if the tadpole was raised separately. Looks to be a healthy tadpole and if were raised without the aid of its parents, I think that holds the most value.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Jellyman said:


> That is going to be one sweet looking frog. Please send me a PM if you decide to sell any of them.


...there is always one...though in this case, I think there are a few. 

Exhibit A:


heatfreakk3 said:


> I think it would be cool to have one of those frogs. I know people dont like hybrids, but imo i dont see anything wrong with selling those to people, IF they know what exactly they are buying and they know its a hybrid.


OP, there are a number of members who would be willing to help you deal with this froglet responsibly rather than selling it to the first person with cash (I'm sure you've already been PM'd).


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I havn't been pmed...I am def. not trying to start an argument or anything, i was just wondering why you guys treat these hybrids so different. dont you basicly use the same care for them a regular frogs?


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## jfehr232 (Apr 13, 2009)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I havn't been pmed...I am def. not trying to start an argument or anything, i was just wondering why you guys treat these hybrids so different. dont you basicly use the same care for them a regular frogs?


I'm not either....good luck with your froglets. make sure you update when they morph out...I would like to see how they turn out

...i don't think its about the "care"....more of less keeping true breds. I mean you did it on accident so its done and over. Its just that this forum is harsh on hybrids from what I read.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

To all those who have asked the question if I raised the tadpole myself, I did it with assist of a surrogate mother. I have two breeding group of bastis and two breeding groups of El Dorados. In one of my El Dorado tank I have a 1.2.0 ratio. The females lay a clutch of eggs almost once or sometime twice a week. I have 6 HYBRIDS and I feed them eggs laid by the two females. I have also switched tadpoles with existing one in my basti's tank so they could be fed more frequently. I HAVE NOT come up with an alternative solution to raising them alone. However I am working on ways to enhance the amount of suppliments the frogs take. *ONE* of the things I've done was mix HERPTIVITE, REPCAL W/VIT D3, AND REPASHY CALCIUM W/ ICB into my fruitfly media. I'm still in a working process and this is the first frog to develope super well. I Hope the rest of them come out the same but we'll have to wait. Who knows, it could be because it's a hybrid creating some kind of super frog. 

Cheers,
Ethin


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh okay, thank you for explaining it to me.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Thank You Ethin and good luck with your project, Bill


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

heatfreakk3 said:


> not trying to start an argument or anything, i was just wondering why you guys treat these hybrids so different.


I was thinking the same thing. I hope you don't object to this, In a year or so, My wife and I are planing on making a HYBRID or two. 

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...36209295526_1536159705_30336736_7138092_n.jpg

Cheers,
Ethin


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## Occidentalis (Jul 11, 2009)

ethin said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I hope you don't object to this, In a year or so, My wife and I are planing on making a HYBRID or two.
> 
> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...36209295526_1536159705_30336736_7138092_n.jpg
> 
> ...



Last I checked, _**** sapiens_ was one species with no distinguishable genetic barriers, not in decline worldwide and certainly not in need of conservation or best management practices.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

Occidentalis said:


> Last I checked, _**** sapiens_ was one species with no distinguishable genetic barriers, not in decline worldwide and certainly not in need of conservation or best management practices.


It was a joke!!!! Not ment to define who or what **** sapiens are. LAUGH A LITTLE, it's a remedy for life. 

Cheers,
Ethin


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

stemcellular said:


> Ethin, if you need to move them let me know and I'll add them to my pumilio orphanage at the office.


i'll let you know Ray. Right now it's a matter of how many and if they all come out looking as healthy. 

Cheers,
Ethin


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Np, I've become the caretaker of an increasing army of orphaned adult frogs, nice to keep the postdocs and faculty focused on something when I'm telling them what not to do.


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## Occidentalis (Jul 11, 2009)

ethin said:


> It was a joke!!!! Not ment to define who or what **** sapiens are. LAUGH A LITTLE, it's a remedy for life.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ethin


Someone might not get that your joke hinges on a fundamental misunderstanding in biology. I didn't want to lend support to the idea that a cross between two human "races" is the same as between isolated populations of frogs. There's already a very low level of understanding of these concepts and very impressionable people here.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Sounds like it'll be an interesting looking frog when it's an adult. Do you have more than one of them? Not recommending you try it, but it'd be interesting to see if two of the hybrid siblings would produce offspring with characteristics that vary between the two morphs, or if they'd stay a consistent patern. Like, would one of them have the spots of the one morph and the colors of the other, and another have a different combination of each morphs characteristics?.... Just pondering.

@Ethin, we're planning for a couple Norse/Dutch hybrids =O Oh noes! We'll never be able to reintroduce the offspring to the wild... (now I'm picturing pushing a little baby out to sea in a miniature Viking longship....lol)


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

This may be a dumb question, but would the offspring even be fertile sexually?

-Matt


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Yes they would, being from the same genus if not species (I'm not particularly good at IDs yet, but these are both pumilio morphs right?). Just like a lab and a poodle.

If I remember correctly the descripton of a species is being able to breed together and produce viable offspring.

Someone who's smarter go ahead and correct me now. I aren't got no colidge learnin.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

RMB said:


> Sounds like it'll be an interesting looking frog when it's an adult. Do you have more than one of them? Not recommending you try it, but it'd be interesting to see if two of the hybrid siblings would produce offspring with characteristics that vary between the two morphs, or if they'd stay a consistent patern. Like, would one of them have the spots of the one morph and the colors of the other, and another have a different combination of each morphs characteristics?.... Just pondering.


I do have 6 of them that are developing. The second oldest hybrid seem to be solid orange with no spots on the back. I'll take pictures of that one within a week or two, the front legs are still developing. 



RMB said:


> @Ethin, we're planning for a couple Norse/Dutch hybrids =O Oh noes! We'll never be able to reintroduce the offspring to the wild... (now I'm picturing pushing a little baby out to sea in a miniature Viking longship....lol)


Thats hillarious.....my wife and I Just cracked up laughing. 

cheers,
Ethin


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## jfehr232 (Apr 13, 2009)

so was this an accident or not? I'm confused now....


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

ethin said:


> I do have 6 of them that are developing. The second oldest hybrid seem to be solid orange with no spots on the back. I'll take pictures of that one within a week or two, the front legs are still developing.


Hmm. One would think all the tads/froglets would be around the same stage of development if this was a 'one clutch accident'.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Jellyman said:


> That is going to be one sweet looking frog. Please send me a PM if you decide to sell any of them.


You add virtually nothing of value or substance to this forum but we sure as heck can count on you any time theres some sort of hybrid mutt frog post.

<proud>


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

afterdark said:


> Hmm. One would think all the tads/froglets would be around the same stage of development if this was a 'one clutch accident'.


Only a person that don't know can only assume. I have 6 hybrid, 2 eldos, and 1 bastis that are being raised in small deli cups. I don't know about you but trying to get them all to develope at the same rate is merely impossible due to the lack of unfertile eggs that I take from my breeding groups. I give more to the bigger ones and not every clutch of eggs laid will be enough to feed all of them at once. I've had over 14 eggs at one time and majority of the time 5 to 6 eggs. I have to pick and choose who will be fed according to their size. THEY ARE FROM ONE CLUTCH and that is that. My last clutch of red/orange Eldos came OOW on 1/25/2010, 1/28/2010, 2/3/2010. It was 9 days apart between the first and last one. 


Cheer,
Ethin


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## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

Occidentalis said:


> Someone might not get that your joke hinges on a fundamental misunderstanding in biology. I didn't want to lend support to the idea that a cross between two human "races" is the same as between isolated populations of frogs. There's already a very low level of understanding of these concepts and very impressionable people here.


You seriously need to get out for a few beers.


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## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

Philsuma said:


> You add virtually nothing of value or substance to this forum but we sure as heck can count on you any time theres some sort of hybrid mutt frog post.
> 
> <proud>


My Frysuma are almost out of the water.


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## yumpster (May 22, 2009)

Honest mistakes are nothing worth grumbling about. I'm glad that the majority of posts aren't causing any real trouble. On a lighter note, I am always very curious how hybrids will end up looking as adults. That would seem to be a rather unique combination of colors there.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

jfehr232 said:


> so was this an accident or not? I'm confused now....


no reason to be confuse, it was an accident that took me 2 months later to find out. The tadpoles were developing when I found them and I didn't know who the mother was until now (sounds like an episode on Maury Povich show). 

Cheers,
Ethin


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## Jellyman (Mar 6, 2006)

ethin said:


> no reason to be confuse, it was an accident that took me 2 months later to find out. The tadpoles were developing when I found them and I didn't know who the mother was until now (sounds like an episode on Maury Povich show).
> 
> Cheers,
> Ethin


Now that's funny. Who's your daddy?


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

ethin said:


> Only a person that don't know can only assume. I have 6 hybrid, 2 eldos, and 1 bastis that are being raised in small deli cups. I don't know about you but trying to get them all to develope at the same rate is merely impossible due to the lack of unfertile eggs that I take from my breeding groups. I give more to the bigger ones and not every clutch of eggs laid will be enough to feed all of them at once. I've had over 14 eggs at one time and majority of the time 5 to 6 eggs. I have to pick and choose who will be fed according to their size. THEY ARE FROM ONE CLUTCH and that is that. My last clutch of red/orange Eldos came OOW on 1/25/2010, 1/28/2010, 2/3/2010. It was 9 days apart between the first and last one.
> 
> 
> Cheer,
> Ethin


Well, there you go. Sorry for assuming.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Good luck with the inter-morphs, not "hybrids" (as everyone is calling them).

The interest scientifically is how the F1 inter-morphs breed, do they produce fertile off-spring, and what characterics are inherited and in what ratios. I would recommend keeping all the offspring together and conduct a breeding project through the F2s. You may get some F2s that look like either original "grand" parent, the F1 parents, or some combinations that are completely novel.

Also, it is good for the hobby to see what certain potentially common crosses will look like, so hobbyists can be alerted to them when the see them offered as a "pure" line.

Keeping good records and being honest about the work is the key here and this is a very good first step.

Good luck! Richard.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Woodsman said:


> The interest scientifically is how the F1 inter-morphs breed, do they produce fertile off-spring, and what characterics are inherited and in what ratios. I would recommend keeping all the offspring together and conduct a breeding project through the F2s. You may get some F2s that look like either original "grand" parent, the F1 parents, or some combinations that are completely novel.
> Good luck! Richard.


That's just what I was wondering, just better worded.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

Woodsman said:


> Good luck with the inter-morphs, not "hybrids" (as everyone is calling them).
> 
> The interest scientifically is how the F1 inter-morphs breed, do they produce fertile off-spring, and what characterics are inherited and in what ratios. I would recommend keeping all the offspring together and conduct a breeding project through the F2s. You may get some F2s that look like either original "grand" parent, the F1 parents, or some combinations that are completely novel.
> 
> ...


Don't get me wrong,I am MARRIED to an amazing women but I like you richard! making something negative into something positive (NOT TRYING TO PROMOTE INTER-MORPHING EITHER).

Cheers,
Ethin


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

Jellyman said:


> My Frysuma are almost out of the water.


What about the Joshzureus?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

The hybrid/intermorph/bastard frog debate has been going on for quite a while, and there are clearly very strong opinions on the matter. So, I am not going to touch that one.

However - I did want to bring up something that I haven't seen mentioned yet (although I apologize if I missed it). You placed a female El Dorado into a tank with a proven group of Gold Dust Bastis (1.1.1). And you got a clutch of eggs. And now that you have raised the tadpoles on surrogate eggs - the color of the froglet is orange, so you are assuming that it is a hybrid. I agree with you that there is a possibility that the tads are a mix of El Dorado and White bastis - however there is the equal possibibility that the froglets are pure bastimentos. 

I personally haven't worked with a group of all gold dust (white) bastimentos, but there are many froggers I know that have, and the gold dust frogs more often produce orange froglets than lighter colored froglets (and white froglets aren't that common). Have you bred this 1.1.1 of Bastis before to know the color variety of froglets the pair produces? One of the greatest things about Bastis is the natural variability of their froglets.

I also don't feel you can attribute anything to the size of the tadpole, as while El Dorados are a larger pumilio - there are many variables that contribute to tadpole growth - and especially considering you are raising the tads out of the tank, mere size of the tad alone doesn't mean it is part El Dorado. The froglets from my basti group morph about the same size as those from my El Dorado group.

So, while I agree with you that you **HAVE** to label these froglets as potential hybrids/intermorphs given the possibility that the Basti fertilized eggs from the El Dorado female, I don't think you can be sure that the frog is in fact an intermorph/hybrid, either. So, any observations you make of the frog, considering them to be important for understanding hybrids, won't be legitimate.

Oz


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

That was my thought as well Oz. I've not kept bastis, but from my understanding they produce a ton of variety in color. To me that looks like an orange basti morphing out.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

rozdaboff said:


> The hybrid/intermorph/bastard frog debate has been going on for quite a while, and there are clearly very strong opinions on the matter. So, I am not going to touch that one.
> 
> However - I did want to bring up something that I haven't seen mentioned yet (although I apologize if I missed it). You placed a female El Dorado into a tank with a proven group of Gold Dust Bastis (1.1.1). And you got a clutch of eggs. And now that you have raised the tadpoles on surrogate eggs - the color of the froglet is orange, so you are assuming that it is a hybrid. I agree with you that there is a possibility that the tads are a mix of El Dorado and White bastis - however there is the equal possibibility that the froglets are pure bastimentos.
> 
> ...



The pair of gold dust were WC and NOT PROVEN. I had bought them about a week before I bought my red/orange Eldos. For the 0.0.1 gold dust, it was a CB basti ( to young to breed) bought from a different resource. I had house them together for about two weeks or so for the time being because I was finishing up their permanent home. Since I've removed the female Eldo and the 0.0.1 gold dust basti, i've yet to see any breeding behavior or eggs clutch from the female gold dust. I know the variety of colors that bastis can produce ( I have another pair producing right now) and thier tads are not even close to the same size or coloring of the pictures I posted. This tad is about the size of a month old froglet. the leg alone is twice or triple the size of my eldo/gold dust tads. I understand what you're saying and I have no reason to not take it into consideration. As of right now, I can only wait and see when they do emerge from the water to clear things up. 


Cheers,
Ethin


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

ethin said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I hope you don't object to this, In a year or so, My wife and I are planing on making a HYBRID or two.
> 
> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...36209295526_1536159705_30336736_7138092_n.jpg
> 
> ...


San Diego?


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## Toof (Oct 22, 2009)

michaelslenahan said:


> San Diego?


Hahaha, I picked up on that too! Definitely San Diego.

Shawn


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

michaelslenahan said:


> San Diego?


I was in San Diego last summer for a wedding. It must be the temple that gave it away.

Cheers,
Ethin


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## yumpster (May 22, 2009)

Definitely keep us updated on this. I really think being able to follow froglets like that as they develop would be beneficial to everyone for all the previously mentioned reasons. Be sure to update in a month or so with pictures!


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## driftfc (May 2, 2006)

that is very interesting, although im not a big fan of purposely creating hybrids, accidentle is by all means no ones fault. i think it is taken way too seriously here, i know for my self i bought my frogs for pure self enjoyment and not to replenish them back into the wild if they were to ever go exstinct. i bet for some that are completly disgusted by the fact of hybrid frogs and want to keep that line pure probably have a mixed breed dog or cat


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

yumpster said:


> Definitely keep us updated on this. I really think being able to follow froglets like that as they develop would be beneficial to everyone for all the previously mentioned reasons. Be sure to update in a month or so with pictures!


I will make sure to take plenty of pictures if they make it. Right now, the first tad look promising and i'm just gonna have to wait and see for the rest of them. 

Cheers,
Ethin


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

driftfc said:


> that is very interesting, although im not a big fan of purposely creating hybrids, accidentle is by all means no ones fault. i think it is taken way too seriously here.


Some people are just expressing their point of view nd I can understand that. What it all comes down to is: we are all in it together for the love of the hobby regardly what one might say. We are passionate for the things we love and how we express it. We all have choices in life and how/what we choose to do make us who we are. 



driftfc said:


> I bet for some that are completly disgusted by the fact of hybrid frogs and want to keep that line pure probably have a mixed breed dog or cat


That's funny

Cheers,
Ethin


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

ethin said:


> That's funny


Funny, but a bad analogy. Hybrid frogs are not the same as mixed breed dogs or cats. The various PDF morphs have evolved naturally based on the selective pressures influencing each population, and conservation-minded hobbyists wish to preserve those natural variations to the best of our ability. Dogs and cats did not evolve into their various breeds by natural means, they have been manipulated by humans through artificial selection over the years to serve practical or aesthetic purposes. Mixed breed dogs and cats do not undermine conservation efforts because there isn't a range of natural variation to conserve. Mixed race human children are also a bad analogy, and the reasons for that should be obvious.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

Tony said:


> Mixed race human children are also a bad analogy, and the reasons for that should be obvious.


It was just to lighten things up, on the topic of mix breeding. It was ment for a laugh or two. 

Cheers,
Ethin


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

ethin said:


> It was just to lighten things up, on the topic of mix breeding. It was ment for a laugh or two.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ethin


I know, and I did agree that it was funny, but it is one of my pet peeves because so many people do take the analogy seriously. I just wanted to point out why that is not a good comparison for the benefit of anyone who may read and take it as a serious explanation rather than a joke. I don't want to crap in your thread and turn it into another hybrid debate, I made my opinion known in another thread, and I'm glad to see the El Dorado is out of your Basti group now.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Tony said:


> Funny, but a bad analogy. Hybrid frogs are not the same as mixed breed dogs or cats. The various PDF morphs have evolved naturally based on the selective pressures influencing each population, and conservation-minded hobbyists wish to preserve those natural variations to the best of our ability. Dogs and cats did not evolve into their various breeds by natural means, they have been manipulated by humans through artificial selection over the years to serve practical or aesthetic purposes. Mixed breed dogs and cats do not undermine conservation efforts because there isn't a range of natural variation to conserve. Mixed race human children are also a bad analogy, and the reasons for that should be obvious.


Tony, you are pretty astute for a 7 year old. That's a great succinct post.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> Tony, you are pretty astute for a 7 year old. That's a great succinct post.


Thanks Phil, I spend a lot of time listening to the grown-ups.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

Tony said:


> I know, and I did agree that it was funny, but it is one of my pet peeves because so many people do take the analogy seriously. I just wanted to point out why that is not a good comparison for the benefit of anyone who may read and take it as a serious explanation rather than a joke. I don't want to crap in your thread and turn it into another hybrid debate, I made my opinion known in another thread, and I'm glad to see the El Dorado is out of your Basti group now.


Whos taking it seriouly????If people were taking this seriously, there would be people posting about what I wrote. The only people that are taking it seriously is you and another member. People should take it for what it is and laugh..thats it. It's because of you're pet peeve that you need to make your point. I have nothing against you trying to correct me or trying to speak for eveyone but I know the differance and not intended for a debate about **** sapiens but pure laughter. IF THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT MIGHT OF BEEN CONFUSED..I DO APOLOGIZE AHEAD. I also don't like it when you try to threaten me by stating that you made your opinion known on another thread about mixing. It was unintentional and not for an agruement sake. If you read my post, I had placed them in a temp tank for about two weeks and found the eggs after I removed them into their permanent tanks. If I did it purposely, I would have had the the frogs raised them and not pulled the eggs out when I found them. I have nothing against you or any other members but I think some of us including me need to take a deep breath and go feed their frogs. It might help remind everyone why we love this hobby. 

Cheers,
Ethin


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Take a breath bud, I wasn't threatening you. Quite the opposite, I made my opinion known in the other thread and do not want to drag the debate into yours because I understand that it was an accident and you are dealing with the offspring responsibly. I genuinely appreciate that you are not intentionally making hybrids and have moved the El Dorado into a different viv, there was no threat or smart-assery intended in what I said.


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## ethin (Mar 26, 2009)

For any of you who have been following my thread, I’m writing this to inform all members that my intention for posting the hybrid was not to publicly announce that I sell or breed them. It was a mistake on my part to place them together even though it was for two weeks. I did not also think about the potential threat of disease from WC frogs being transported from one frog to another. This thread is to educate all members that proper quarantine is highly recommended for the sole purpose of avoiding inter-breeding and avoiding the same mistake that I had made. I believe that as a member, we should go about these types of matters in a different approach then to criticize or judge people that might stumble into these types of situations. I do agree with Ray that this board should handle matters with an open mind in “harassment free environment”. I know that not all members will agree with each other and there might not ever be a solution to this predicament. I do believe that the solution is not to bring up past mistakes (unintentionally/intentionally) from members but to move forward and educate other members the important of avoiding inter-breeding/hybrids. We are all adults that may never see eye to eye but we do share a similar love and passion for this hobby. I apologize to members that I may have offended and I hope this post will persuade others to move forward.

Cheers,
Ethin


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## Alfy111 (Aug 6, 2005)

any updates on this?? i really wanna see how or if they morphed out!


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