# A Word of Caution



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I know a lot of people here are aware of this, but for those that aren't, I guess let my experience be something you learn from so you don't have to deal with something so awful.

A few days ago, my roommate and I had a long day up on campus teaching/writing/extracting DNA, and so on. We didn't get home until early evening (I don't think I got home until around 6, so I was at the office for 8+ hours). I came home to a house that was 90+. It turns out that our outdoor air conditioner unit had a little explosion early in the morning and was rendered useless. Which means that the house was 90+ all day.

For those that don't know, dart frogs do not cope with heat well. Despite my checking on the frogs when I got home and thinking I got through the worst of it unscathed, I found out a couple days after that I wasn't unscathed. Not even close. It turns out that the heat was too much for my 4 chrome bassleri, 4 varadero imitators, and 1 azureus. I was only fortunate that I didn't lose all of my frogs (still have 1 azureus, all of my leucs, and I think all of my vittatus although I'm not certain since they're in a very densely planted tank).

It was a freak accident that really couldn't be predicted. It just really sucks because both the varaderos and bassleri were my newest editions to my collection (and rather excited about getting them).

So let this be a word of caution, if you live in an area that can be rather hot during the summer take some sort of precaution for freak accidents like this. It really sucks when it happens.


----------



## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

I am sorry to hear about your loss.
I have found that this device from Lacrosse is priceless. It has saved me at least one time when I was away for a few days. It texted my phone telling me that the room had exceeded the maximum temperature setting that I had pre-programmed. I was able to call a room mate and have him turn my AC back on saving the day.
Lacrosse Alert- Master System with Dry Probe
P.S. A side note: Try to get an AC that turns back on by itself when the power goes out.


----------



## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Sherman, in his case the entire AC unit stopped working. The only things that could possibly have saved him were a backup AC unit or the alert system you mentioned (he could have gone home to put ice packs in the vivs, buy a portable AC unit, etc.). 

Very sorry for your loss, JP. You just described many people's worst nightmares.


----------



## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

We hear stories like this every year, The only real precaution is to have a setup that contacts you via cell phone/e-mail of temp alerts. While somewhat practical not something everyone can do.


----------



## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

Really sorry to hear about the loss of your new frogs. I know I'd be pretty upset right about now.


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Sorry about your loss JP. Any thanks for the word of warning. It needs to be something every frogger is thinking about.

I had a very similar situation happen recently, in San Antonio Texas on a 100+ day. Wife and I made a quick trip to Walmarx, and came back to a house at 86. Turns our the fan motor on the AC unit had crapped out. I was able to get my spare window unit up in the frog room and cooled down quickly. Fortunately our property management company considers AC outages as emergencies in severe heat, so they had a company out to repair the unit that night. I shudder to think what I would have done if I wasn't home or was on vacation. The window unit is just staying in place now, set a couple degrees above what I keep the house at and kicks on if the temp in the frog room jumps up too high.

I'll definitely be investing in some sort of system to alert me of temperature issues like this. One solution I know could work in San Antonio, is our power company offers an online/app based Home Manager. I think at least you can check what your thermostat is reading, but not sure if the app will alert you. Something other municipalities may have available for people to look into.


----------



## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

bsr8129 said:


> We hear stories like this every year, The only real precaution is to have a setup that contacts you via cell phone/e-mail of temp alerts. While somewhat practical not something everyone can do.


This system will alert you via text message and email.
It costs less, often significantly less, than a single frog and set-up.
It requires an internet connection that most people have. (case in point: you are reading this!). 

I view this as required equipment for anything that can be called a "collection".

-2 cents-
Chris


----------



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I will look into that device. Between my frogs and my corals, I was rather freaked out. I had hoped I had escaped it, but no such luck, unfortunately. I have a Nest thermostat, which I can monitor online, but it does not send me the warnings (which it really should).


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Over the past couple years, I have read this and heard awesome stories that worked great and some that didn't. One thing I think could help in emergency situations, which happened to me this past month, was a bag of ice on top of the viv with a cloth over it to help cool the tanks back down, obviously in this situation it would have been later in the day, but at least it might have helped.

But I am sorry to hear of your lose, it really sucks losing frogs, especially in stuff that you have no control over.


----------



## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

MonarchzMan said:


> I will look into that device. Between my frogs and my corals, I was rather freaked out. I had hoped I had escaped it, but no such luck, unfortunately. I have a Nest thermostat, which I can monitor online, but it does not send me the warnings (which it really should).


Bummer - for the price you would think the nest could send you a lousy email. How do you like the nest otherwise?


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey JP,

Sorry for your loss. Hope you are able to rebuild the collection soon.


----------



## rmetke (Apr 17, 2013)

The Nest thermostat is a great investment. You can always monitor your temperatures and change your thermostat from your phone. Also helps save a lot of money throughout the year.


----------



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

TerraFerma said:


> Bummer - for the price you would think the nest could send you a lousy email. How do you like the nest otherwise?


I really like the Nest, but I do think (now) that sending an email when the house got too hot or cold is something that should be incorporated. Even if Nest owners don't have pets, there is reason to know if your house is getting too warm or cold (e.g., freezing pipes).



> Hey JP,
> 
> Sorry for your loss. Hope you are able to rebuild the collection soon.


I would like to rebuild, but I don't think that is going to be feasible anytime soon, unfortunately. Bills are too tight right now to justify spending money on frogs. I'm just thankful I didn't lose them all.


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Well, hopefully i will have some other frogs breeding soon and i can some your way at no cost. I certainly enjoy what you do for this hobby, so my way of paying you back in a way.


----------



## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

MonarchzMan said:


> I really like the Nest, but I do think (now) that sending an email when the house got too hot or cold is something that should be incorporated. Even if Nest owners don't have pets, there is reason to know if your house is getting too warm or cold (e.g., freezing pipes).


Many requests, but nothing yet: https://community.nest.com/ideas/1045


----------



## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Are these devices capable of sending an alert without power? I assume they have some amount of battery backup, but isn't it possible the battery won't last as long as it takes to reach the alarm set point? or can they be set to alert as soon as there is a power disruption?


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Sorry dude. Since the move I think my Chromes are finally starting to breed again (not positive, but that's the way it sounds).... If you haven't gotten replacements by then, hit me up in six months and I'll give you a good deal.


----------



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

JPccusa said:


> Many requests, but nothing yet: https://community.nest.com/ideas/1045


I was just looking to see if I've overlooked something. I can set "safety temperatures" at 45 and 95 (way too cold and hot for my safety). I hope they incorporate it. It would be easy enough to do. If, in my case for example, the heater/AC break, those safety temperatures aren't going to do squat for keeping the house within a temperature range. Alerting that something may be wrong is a better safety precaution.

Julio, I very much appreciate the generosity.


----------



## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

MonarchzMan said:


> I will look into that device. Between my frogs and my corals, I was rather freaked out. I had hoped I had escaped it, but no such luck, unfortunately. I have a Nest thermostat, which I can monitor online, but it does not send me the warnings (which it really should).


Uhhh, yeah, I am suprised the nest thermo doesn't offer that, espeically for how much they cost. Sorry to hear about your losses. I havee a La Crosse system and I like it a lot. It makes me feel better, especially when I am out of town on vacation. One other nice function is that it will plot your temp and humidity changes and you can see the historical temp/humidity patterns. I suppose you could save the data and study the patterns to look for correlations with heavy breeding to pinpoint ideal patterns or settings...


----------



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Reef_Haven said:


> Are these devices capable of sending an alert without power? I assume they have some amount of battery backup, but isn't it possible the battery won't last as long as it takes to reach the alarm set point? or can they be set to alert as soon as there is a power disruption?


They connect to the internet, which also would be easy enough to detect a power outage (if your Nest can't connect to the internet for an hour, or something like that, send an email/SMS).


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Sorry for your loss... A few days this summer I had viv temps of 84° F. No problems for Varadero, but I have fans on with thermostat. In case of failure of A/C, fans can be a cheap solution.


----------



## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Reef_Haven said:


> Are these devices capable of sending an alert without power? I assume they have some amount of battery backup, but isn't it possible the battery won't last as long as it takes to reach the alarm set point? or can they be set to alert as soon as there is a power disruption?


If I had to say one bad thing about the Lacrosse system it would be that it *does *send a message whenever it loses connection for more than 10 minutes.
I have found that this happens in my location frequently. It has more to do with the placement of the system and my internet connection than anything else. I find that the repeated "false alarms" have numbed my response. I am afraid that I will disregard an important message. 
I intend to set the system up a little better in my new frog room. Hopefully that will reduce nuisance texts.


----------



## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Sherman said:


> If I had to say one bad thing about the Lacrosse system it would be that it *does *send a message whenever it loses connection for more than 10 minutes.


Guess I'm technologically deficient. How is it able to send a message while the connection is lost?


----------



## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

Sorry for your loss.

The Honeywell Wifi thermostats have a programmable high and low temp alert (as well as the ability to monitor and program online). It also alerts when connection is lost (which could indicate either power loss and/or internet loss). Mine has already saved my butt several times. 

I've also set up a somewhat redundant stand-alone a/c unit (in addition to central A/C). Perfect example....the blower in my central A/C went out a couple days ago. The stand-alone unit has me covered until the central A/C is repaired. While it may sound a little excessive, being an aerospace engineer....I have come to repsect/fear the single point failures. 

Kevin


----------



## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Reef_Haven said:


> Guess I'm technologically deficient. How is it able to send a message while the connection is lost?


I'm not on the cusp of tech either, but this is how I understand things. The temp probe sends a signal to a device that feeds information off site via an internet connection. All of the texts and emails are sent from a seperate location. If the data streaming to them idicates a problem, it sends a message. If the data stops being recieved, it sends a message. The Lacrosse system only sends data away from the house.
...I think.
A more complete description may be seen below.


----------



## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

Reef_Haven said:


> Guess I'm technologically deficient. How is it able to send a message while the connection is lost?


Kevin, both the LaCrosse units and the Honeywell unit are monitored by the manufacturer's web-based system. This web-based system periodically sends status messages to the unit, which then sends back a response. If it does not receive the response, it notifies you that the connection was lost. Hope that helps.

Kevin


(sherman beat me to it)


----------



## Ian Hiler (Apr 9, 2009)

I can replace the green and chromes and probably get you an appropriate sexed azureus. Just let me know....


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

So sorry about losing those frogs... makes me think of how Jeremy Huff had it happen to him too, and the despair that must set in. this thread has me intrigued....and curious...if the system relies on the internet--doesn't that require electricity? So if you've lost power, how do you get notified while away from the source? Does it go to an app on your Smart Phone...I admit upfront that I'm not a techie, --just show me the off and on switch--- Is my question just plain stupid?


----------



## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

Judy S said:


> So sorry about losing those frogs... makes me think of how Jeremy Huff had it happen to him too, and the despair that must set in. this thread has me intrigued....and curious...if the system relies on the internet--doesn't that require electricity? So if you've lost power, how do you get notified while away from the source? Does it go to an app on your Smart Phone...I admit upfront that I'm not a techie, --just show me the off and on switch--- Is my question just plain stupid?



Unless the servers containing the manufacturer's site went down with the same power outage as your house, the emails and/or texts would still be sent. The chances of this are slim-to-none....the servers are likely halfway across the world. It would truly take a zombie apocalypse to bring down the internet or cause a global power outage. 

Kevin


----------



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the losses JP... If and when your back in the Kazoo area let me know....If I have any varadero I xan hook you up....I dont have any as sweet as the black one you got though.

Good luck with the survivors.

sent from my Galaxy S lll


----------



## WeeNe858 (Sep 13, 2010)

I lost 2 of my Terribilis this way.. sorry for your loss as well. :[


----------



## oneshot (Mar 5, 2010)

I'd send you some Vanzo's or orange lamasi if you want them.


----------



## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

As someone who as lost an entire collection, my condolences.

D


----------



## SimpleLEDLightingSystems (Jun 15, 2013)

Unfortunately had this happened to me a few years back when I went on a camping trip! Not something anyone wants to come home to... I've looked into an alert system and would say they are well worth the price for what they do. Good luck with everything!

-Mike-


----------



## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

I have a La Crosse alert, and it has served me well. Although one day in the usual Vegas blistering heat this summer, I got a text from the system that temps were above 80 (mine is set to alert me at 79) So I rushed home and all was well ..except for the laundry I had dumped on top of the sensor.


----------



## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

... and I also need to say I am so sorry about the frogs. Although it's is good to see the dart frog community supporting one of it's own, once again when things go to hell.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Aw man that sucks.. Definitely been there with the ice storm disaster several years ago, and then a summer and winter of heat/Ac troubles that took out a few frogs while I was rebuilding after the ice storm. Now my AC is being skitzo again... some days working, some not. 

But, I got 2 window units that are always on and picking up the slack keeping everything under 80 degrees, and a couple space heaters incase the heat breaks this winter like it did last year (or was it the year before?). 

*For those with the means...*
Setting up window or portable AC units plugged into a thermostat, or even space heaters on a thermostat during winter to kick on if your main heat/air fails may save your collection. And once your collection is big enough to justify the expense, I'd highly recommend investing in a generator, just in case. 

I still need the generator but the redundancy of the window units and space heaters has already saved frogs and gives me peace of mind for the future.

Plus I think those window/portable AC units are easier to setup and run off a generator, or on a smaller generator then what you might need to kick over your central heat/air in most homes. Which often requires very high starting current that requires a larger/expensive generator, and while window/portable units do to, it isn't quite so bad so smaller generators should work usually. 

Best wishes MonarchzMan!


----------



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Thank you all for the outpouring of support and generosity, it's times like these that I am truly impressed with the hobby. Like I said, originally, if I can be an example to prevent someone else from losing frogs in such a horrible way, this experience won't be for nothing. I definitely didn't know there were temperature alarms out there that could alert me remotely. Definitely going to look into that.


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I posted info on the Lacrosse alert a few times now.....have always been surprised not many more indicated they used it until now....price isn't expensive at all.

As far as how it works....you set perameters, if the temps go above or below the set perameters, it texts and emails. As for knowing during a power outage, you won't get readings, but it does alert that a signal has not been received.....so either a connection issue or a power issue. 

I believe their may be other systems to alert for a power outage online but I don't own one of those.

I do own an alert that you plug in the wall, and it goes off once power is lost (also would go off if you unplug it from wall). I have this in my bedroom in case power goes out while I am sleeping, I will know. More useful in winter in case I need to heat up anything, and also useful year round in rain storms in case I need to run the generator for my sump pump. This item is also very cheap.


----------



## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

mydumname said:


> I posted info on the Lacrosse alert a few times now.....have always been surprised not many more indicated they used it until now....price isn't expensive at all.


I wonder if a few of the sponsors could add it to their supplies for sale inventory. They could make a little money off of it and the alarm would be more prominent, and easy for people to buy, that were not aware of the product.


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Blackjungle has carried it and advertised it in the past.

It was just a lot more expensive then other places though, but looks like they dropped the price down some.

http://www.blackjungleterrariumsupply.com/Lacrosse-Alert-Master-System-with-Wet-Probe_p_2105.html


I got my first two with the gateway for about $75 shipped total....but apparently that price was an error cause when I went to send the site to someone, it was higher. The third device I bought was from Amazon.....you only need one gateway.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

One option for alerting us to such failures may be some of the sensor projects being developed like on kickstarter...

Twine : Listen to your world, talk to the Internet by Supermechanical — Kickstarter

NODE: a modular, handheld powerhouse of sensors by George Yu — Kickstarter

8 Internet Of Things & Sensor Projects on Kickstarter | All Things CC:

Here are a couple outlet thermostats you can plug AC's or heaters into...

Lux WIN100 Heating & Cooling Programmable Outlet Thermostat - Amazon.com

Suncourt Ductstat Plug-In Thermostat Temperature Sensitive Switch-DS100 at The Home Depot

Greenhouse Controls - Thermostat Controllers from ACF Greenhouses


----------



## flybyferns (Sep 27, 2011)

JP,
I'm so sorry.  It's just awful ! 

I'm always complaining ,to myself, that my frogs are in the basement.
But ...I guess it has it's advantages.

Have you seen these ?
http://www.radiothermostat.com/control.html

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/total-connect-comfort/id469517819?mt=8

Lynn


----------

