# New D. auratus, hurt??



## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hello all, 

I am new to keeping dart frogs and I recently got 2 D. auratus "Panama G&B" froglets. They are in a 20G high planted vivarium with a water feature and plenty of hiding places/cover (plants, leaf litter, coco hut). One of the frogs is very active and has been eating, the other frog I am a little concerned about. Right after he/she was released from the container I took it home in ( I did go to a store and pick them out myself, although my drive home was about 2 hours, but they were not shipped so I wouldn't expect a shipping injury), I noticed the frog hobbling and seeming to not want to use it's left front leg. Although I did see the frog use the leg a little, he/she seemed to do so hesitantly. Since the initial release I have not seen that frog at all, not even when I feed. I am really concerned about the frog not eating. I checked under the leaf where I knew the frog was hiding only to make sure that the frog hadn't died, I really did not want to disturb the frog and stress it out more, but at the same time I was very concerned. The frog was still alive, and hopped away a little when I lifted the leaf. I really couldn't tell if the frog was still limping, but I did notice that the frog looked like it was trying to eat itself/like it was gagging. Is this frog ok and just shy? Should I be worried? I don't really want to handle it because I am worried that would just stress it out more. It went right back to hiding under the leaf after I put the leaf back. 

Thanks for any/all help, 
~Ana


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## Urban Jungle (Oct 10, 2013)

Sorry to hear the little one isn't doing well. I have a couple questions. Can you post a picture of the frog? Is it underweight when compared to active one? Was the frog using it's front leg when you picked it out at the store? I don't want to worry you unjustifiably, but unfortunately, it sounds like the frog might have Spindly Leg Syndrome (SLS), or a fracture in the leg. There are different degrees of SLS and frogs with mobility can live with it, however if that's the case, if I were you I would return it asap and contact the store to see if there is a history of it.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi and welcome! 

It will be difficult to advise you about the leg without pictures. However, I think your instinct to leave her alone and reduce her stress is right. Maybe let her hide under her leaf for a few days and then check on her again. 

The gagging thing might have been shedding. Here's a link to a post I made with links to some videos of some of my frogs shedding (haha sorry I can't just link the youtube from work. Work thinks youtube is evil): http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/1574762-post9.html


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## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hi, 

Thank you both for your feedback, I will try to take some pictures of the frog when I get back home, but I really do not want to bother it too much. The frog was healthy when I picked it out at the store, but the person who collected the frog was kind of rough when catching him/her, so I think an injury could have occurred there  I will contact the seller, I'm not sure if their frogs are guaranteed. I would hate to see anything bad happen to the little guy/gal. I did look at the videos of a frog shedding and I think that may have been what was going on this morning. The frog doesn't look underweight when compared to the other frog, at least not yet. 

~Ana


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## Kas (Oct 6, 2013)

Update? How's the little guy doing?


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## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hi all, 

Sorry to leave you hanging (I'm a grad student and wrapping up my semester). The little guy seems to actually have gotten worse and is now having a problem with his back leg in addition to his front, and I think I saw him have a seizure this morning  I contacted the seller and they suggested removing him from the larger tank and placing him in a temporary set up to see if I can get him to eat anything, and to remove the stress of the larger, active froglet. If he eats, they suggested some heavier supplementation with vitamin A, D, and calcium. I have been supplementing by dusting ffs, but since this guy will not eat it wasn't helping him. I tried to get some pictures this am, but I don't think I was able to get the angle right to really capture his lean (he can't support himself). Anyway, here is the pic:








Thanks for again for your input, 

~Ana


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Did the seller mention what he had been supplementing the frogs with? His back left leg looks a little strange in the picture. Rubbery? I'm wondering if this frog has a calcium deficiency. What are you using to supplement him? I like the Repashy products. In particular, I use Repashy Calcium Plus and also Repashy Vitamin A.

For your calcium, make sure it has D3.


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## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

Rubbery is an accurate description. The seller supplemented with a repashy multi, calcium D3, and a color support supplement with additional vitamin A and had frogs on a rotation of these. I have been using a Repashy multi (can't remember exact name) and an exoterra calcium and D3. Calcium 3x week and multi the rest of the week (4x). I think a calcium deficiency is probable, not sure how to fix that since he isn't eating. I'm considering a calcium bath or adding calcium to the water I mist him with. Thoughts on this? Also thoughts on how to best keep a temporary frog set up warm? 



Thanks! 

~Ana


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

The supplements sound ok as long as they hadn't gotten too old. They should be replaced every 6 months.

My temporary froglet tanks usually get some sphagnum moss in the bottom with some leaf litter on top of that. I tend to keep one area clear for feeding and I put a piece of fruit or something there to attract the flies. Temps should be between 65-75/80. Mine went much lower than that last winter when my heat wasn't working properly.


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## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

I have the little guy in a temporary enclosure now, with some damp paper towels and leaf litter. Trying to get him to eat, hope for the best!


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## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

So now he has developed an abscess on his neck and his left leg looks like it is rotting off. I couldn't even tell if he was alive this am, I think he may not have made it.  I did the best I could, I'm not a vet and these are my first frogs. The other one is still healthy, but I feel awful about this frog. And a little angry that I was sold a sick animal.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh no. That does not sound good at all. Can you post a pic of his lesion and his leg? How damp is their tank?


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## Kas (Oct 6, 2013)

So very sorry for you and your little guy


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Can you tell us a little bit about the place you got your frogs? No names, though, yet. Was this a private breeder? A dart frog selling company? A chain petstore?


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## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hi all, 

I didn't have my camera this am so I couldn't take a picture of him, I was also upset/in a rush to get to work. 

I got this frog from a locally owned store that specializes in poison dart frogs. I did contact them last week, they said to try separating him and getting him to eat and to keep them up to date on his condition. I am going to call them tomorrow and see how they handle this. Although I am upset about this frog, I am going to withhold any judgement/fury regarding the seller until they respond. This could just be a crappy isolated incident, especially since the other frog is in such good shape.


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## Urban Jungle (Oct 10, 2013)

Sorry to hear it may not have made it. You shouldn't have had to go through this with your first frogs. I think you definitely did what you could. A reputable breeder should replace it for free and be embarrassed that they sold such a unhealthy frog.


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## UnstuckinTime (Dec 10, 2013)

Hey everyone, I'm the significant other of the original poster, and have working with akat21 for months on setting up the vivarium. I have some experience keeping herps, so I give akat21 any help/advice I can. It was a strange case, I am at a total loss at what could have been wrong with it.
-When provoked, it was very active and would try it's hardest to hop away. But it could not support itself, or get very far.
-Once isolated, it clear to see that it was not using it's front left leg. It held it close to it's body, as a dog might with an injured forelimb. It was difficult to get a sense for the back leg, but it, too, seemed to not be 100% operational. (Rear leg on the same side)
-From what I've seen, it did not look like an obvious case of SLS.

Is there any way of knowing what went wrong? There no part of me that thinks it was anything to do with akat21's husbandry abilities (Since it was like this on day one out of the box, and the other frog is doing fantastically), but does anyone have a theory about what could have happened?


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## akat21 (Nov 6, 2013)

Hello again everyone, 

Thank you all so much for your input on this. I contacted the breeder and told them I lost my little guy, they apologized and offered to replace him. So I guess that concludes this thread. Hopefully the next time I post I will be sharing pictures of two happy, healthy froglets!

~Ana


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You might consider keeping them separate for a bit, since you don't know what killed the other little frog. The sores you mentioned are concerning. 

Please keep us updated with lots of pics


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## mrzoggs (May 27, 2012)

Yes I agree with frogface. If it was a disease that caused the sores, it could likely of spread to the other one. Just to be on the safe side, I wouldn't put the new one with the other one. Might end up in a even bigger mess. I would keep them apart for a while and quarantine them just to be safe.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I recommend reading through this thread; http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/141506-quarantine-suggestions-discussion.html


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