# Auratus with oddly shaped legs



## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

I've had this frog for about a year, and I've noticed that something is going on with it's back legs for a while. Occasionally I have seen it with it's legs at funny angles, but when I would go to put it in a deli cup to examine it everything would seem normal. This time I caught it and it still looked funny when in the cup. 










This frog is in a group of 4, and they all get fed every other day, supplemented with Repashy Calcium plus every feeding. The other frogs have no apparent issues with their legs. It seems like this frog doesn't have much strength in it's hind legs, and can't jump as well as the others. The legs just kind of flick away, and it moves forward at a much slower pace than it's siblings. I switched to calcium plus about 2 months ago, from Repashy Supervite and Calcium Medium on alternating dustings. Once again, no other frog is showing this kind of thing. Maybe dislocated knees? Anyone have ideas on how to help this little guy out? The thighs just don't look right to me.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

funny, to me its front feet look messed up, not its back legs
guess Ill look harder


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## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

Yeah, the front feet look a little funny too, but not as much as the back ones.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I see it. It looks like he has rickets or something.


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

Hi, 

I have a Tinctorius that seemed healthy and normal the first few months I had her but for the past few months she has gotten a lot bigger than my other two frogs (a Luec and auratus) and her legs look similar to your frogs and has the same problem moving around. She can't control her back legs and just kind of thrashes around when she tries to move. I know this post was from quite a while ago but I was hoping you found something out and could possibly help me with my current problem. 

Thanks!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi

Are you supplementing his food with vitamins and calcium?


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

Yes. I dust fruit flies every other day with repashy. 

I have been looking all of the web for an answer and it sounds like it might be rickets? I feel awful. Is there anything I can do?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Can you get a picture for us?


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

I have some videos that I have taken. Just gotta figure out how to upload them


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

I couldn't upload the videos but I put them on you tube. Here are the links











Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

That doesn't look right. When you say you use Repashy to supplement, which of the Repashy products do you use? How old is it? I am far from being an expert but that looks like some sort of deficiency to me (calcium?).

Also, would you consider moving the leuc and auratus into their own tanks? It's better if they aren't housed together.


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

Also I don't know if you can see in the photo but there is a bump on the butt more towards the left side if you are looking straight at her. Her yellow marking kind of twists with it...I'm not sure if that is normal or not. This looks very different from my other two frogs.


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

I use the calcium plus superfood. I don't know how she would have a deficiency, she eats way more than the other two. 

I don't have any other tanks other than the one they are already in. Do you think that it would affect the other frogs somehow? She has been acting like this for a few months and the other ones seem okay...


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

I forgot to say how old the supplement is. It's a year old.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It's not the hind limbs that are the main problem.. It's the front legs. If you look at the second video (lower in the frame), you can see that the front legs from the "elbow" joint to the foot lay flat on the ground and aren't lifted from the substrate... This is causing the front legs to drag as it tries to jump and changes the orientation of the "hop" making it look like the hind limbs are the main problem... 
There also appears to be some hind limb deformation.. You would have to confirm it with a vet but it is possible that this is some form of MBD.. I had thought for a moment that it was spindly leg but on closer viewing, it doesn't fit that syndrome. 

Typically, you want to replace the supplements every six months, and do not store them in the same room with the frogs or anywhere that is hot and/or humid (like the kitchen on the counter). They also need to be stored out of the light in a dark or opaque container. Storage in those conditions typically increases breakdown of the vitamins in the mix and can result in conditional nutritional imbalances..... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

So would you recommend using the repashy calcium plus only? Is that the only supplement I should be using?

Yeah after watching the video again that does look right. The front legs don't look right. Do you know if there is anything to help MBD or if it is painful? I feel so awful and heartbroken.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I'd recommend checking for bacterial infections. If these animals are in groups and they are the only ones showing these symptoms it's probably not the vitamins and minerals. It certainly doesn't seem the sick frogs are getting bullied or they would've been gone by now in the condition they are in. Either bacterial or genetic would be my guess.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

CAMI>> said:


> I have been looking all of the web for an answer...


Here are few threads worth reading, hope they help:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/47321-stuck-together-fingers.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/58187-weird-toes-my-azures-male.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/60039-how-often-should-i-dust-vitamin.html

...and if you only notice the back legs kicking while feeding:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/91616-leg-thrashing-3.html

...and just because you should be aware:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/3449-mixing-multispecies-exhibits.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/68908-what-deal-mixing-frogs.html


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

CAMI>> said:


> So would you recommend using the repashy calcium plus only? Is that the only supplement I should be using?
> 
> Yeah after watching the video again that does look right. The front legs don't look right. Do you know if there is anything to help MBD or if it is painful? I feel so awful and heartbroken.


Repashy Calcium Plus should give them everything they need. However, the stuff you have is too old. It should be replaced after it's been open for 6 months. Also, it should be kept in the fridge. What I do is put a little in a condiment cup with lid, and keep that in the frog room. The rest stays in the fridge until I need more. 

Maybe consider having a vet look him over. I did a quick search for exotic vets in Long Beach and it looks like there are a few.


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your help. 

I have an appointment with a vet tomorrow morning. I spoke with them on the phone and the vet mentioned that the frogs front two legs might be fractured in multiple spots which may mean it would be best to euthanize her. I am devastated, all I can think about is how this is my fault. But I thought I was doing everything the breeder told me to do and my other two frogs seem perfectly fine. I feel so awful. 

I will post an update once I know more, again thank you for all the help/advice.


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

Also If anyone has a suggestion on how to transport the frog to my vet that would be appreciated. I have some containers they came in but that was a year ago. Should I line it with wet paper towel?


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

So I went to the vet today. The vet said he thought it was MBD and gave me some calcium sugar stuff and some how I am suppose to give this to her once a day. The vet said her legs won't go back to how they once were but there is a chance she will get better. So any suggestions on how to give this medicine to a frog orally? Also, do think it would be better just to euthanize the poor thing? I don't want her to suffer.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Your vet didn't show you how? Maybe give them a call. I've had to give oral meds to darts and it was not fun. Get something flat, like a guitar pic. Hold the frog in one hand while keeping your thumb and one finger free. In the free finger and thumb, hold the pick (or other flat item) and wedge it into the frog's mouth to get them to open. Then squirt the med in with the other hand. 

If you have someone to help you, it's much easier. You hold the frog with one hand and get them to open their mouth with the other. Your helper then squirts in the med. 

An alternative might be to get some Repashy SuperCal HyD. I've never used it and really don't know anything about it, but, it does mention treating MBD. Here's a link:

New England Herpetoculture LLC - Vitamins & Supplements


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Now that your auratus is getting sorted out, maybe we can advise you on care for all of your frogs. 

How large is the tank? You have a mixed tank which is really not a good idea. It's best to keep different types of frogs separately. Can you put together a couple more tanks? 10g would be large enough for one frog. There are lots of threads on here about the perils of mixing frogs but here is the most recent: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...warning-dont-make-my-mistake.html#post1517698

Can you get a full shot of the tank so we can see? The videos look a little wet but that might just be recent misting

Have you ordered new Repashy Calcium Plus? If not, please do so, asap. The stuff you have is out of date and all of your frogs are in danger of deficiency.

I don't see any reason to euthanize him as long as he is able to get around and eat normally. Hopefully the meds from the vet will help. I'm sure you did everything you were supposed to do, per the breeder. Unfortunately, not all breeders are good frog keepers. 

Thank you for taking him to the vet.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Check with the vet but if it is properly diluted calcium glubionate/gluconate then the frog can be soaked in it daily, in fact I'm surprised the vet didn't tell you that since it is a common way to treat anurans with MBD..... However it should also be noted that the calcium doesn't do any good for the frog without vitamin D3... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

So on the bottle it says Neo Cal Glucon 1.8g/5ml. The stuff is pretty sticky and more of a thick substance. He said it would be best for it to be taken orally but if not I could just put it on the back and hopefully it would be absorbed through the skin. Is that the same as soaking? I'm a little concerned because the vet acted like he had never treated a dart frog before although his specialty is reptile medicine. So this stuff doesn't have vitamin D? Should I buy something else for the vitamin D?

Side note, I replaced my supplements and now keep it in the fridge. 

Also, these frogs were given to me as a present. My husband worked with a guy who built the tanks and breeds frogs. When he gave us the frogs he said to dust the food every other day(never mentioned that the supplements could go bad) and to mist daily and that was it. He said that these three types of frogs would be fine living together. I have never seen anything go on between that looks like aggression in the year that I have had them. Should I still separate them? I have no idea how to even put a tank together.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't know if it's a good idea to put sticky stuff on a frog's back. Maybe Ed or someone can advise. 

Take a look around in the Construction area. Tanks don't have to be very fancy. What size is the tank they are in? Sometimes the issues don't show up until they are a year or so old and have reached sexual maturity. There is also risk of cross breeding if you have males and females in there.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Have you and your husband tried giving the med to the frog? It shouldn't be difficult with 2 people. Maybe if you gave him the med and them immediately fed him some dusted flies, he would get the D3 from the dust?


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

they are in a 21 gallon tank. To breed don't they need standing water? I don't have anything like that in my tank, I just mist it daily. 

And no we have tried doing that quite yet. I'm nervous it will stress the frog out and the bones already have fractures I'm scared I will make it worse. So i've just been putting the stuff on its back. The medicine is still somewhat runny, the vet said it has some kind of sugar in it that makes it kind of sticky. 

I read some where that putting some of the powder supplement on the back of the frog could help. Do you think that could help? Or a bad idea?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

They don't need water to breed. Keep an eye on them. They might be ok in the tank. Make sure they have lots of cover and make sure no one is losing weight. If they do breed, please cull the eggs.

I don't know how to answer the medication questions. I'm really not qualified


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## CAMI>> (Sep 29, 2013)

Okay, I definitely do not want them to bread. Thanks for the heads up. I might just end up separating them.


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