# F2 O. histrionicus (caramel/saddle back)



## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Really pleased with how much red they have retained even without any supplementation.


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## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

Marvelous! How did you go about acquiring this species?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

You just keep bringing back those memories for me lol


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## Ed Holder (Sep 26, 2008)

Gadzooks! Wow those are some beautiful frogs!

Ed


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

WOW!!!!!!!!! NICE Rob.


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

Stunning!

So many questions! How many? What sexes? Breeding? Is this the only histrionicus that you keep?


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## jpg (Jan 3, 2009)

At a loss for words ...


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

gorgeous!!!


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Very nice Rob, glad to see they stayed so bright for you.


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## moothefrog (May 16, 2008)

WOW! Lucky....


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

VERY cool! Are these are recent acquisition or have you had these for some time?


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

MD_Frogger said:


> Marvelous! How did you go about acquiring this species?


My F1s are from a friend who has been in the hobby even longer than I have been.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Marinarawr said:


> Stunning!
> 
> So many questions! How many? What sexes? Breeding? Is this the only histrionicus that you keep?


Have a few f2's now, hopefully enough for another couple pairs.


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

How much is a frog like this worth? How many different histo's do you have!!! MORE PICS!!!


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

Frogs of the histrionicus/Silvatica family usually range between 500-700 per frog.... and proven pairs would go for as much as $2,500. 

Rob those are defenetly gorgeous looking specimens , congrats ...


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

ok but how hard is it to find them for sale, if the person was willing to pay the price?


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

WEll u wont find them for sale posting adds or sites ........ Its all about who u know or what you have to trade ( Other Histos/Silvatica ) .


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## MarcNem (Dec 13, 2008)

It's always who you know. LOL
BTW-Those are awsome. Really nice to see the rareities in the hobby. Nice job Rob.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

AWESOME ROB! Stunning looking frogs!
Brian


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

gorgeous frog Rob, best of luck, how old is he?


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Julio said:


> gorgeous frog Rob, best of luck, how old is he?


I've got two from this group that are about 8-10 months out of the water. I just pulled them from the adults tank.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

rmelancon said:


> I've got two from this group that are about 8-10 months out of the water. I just pulled them from the adults tank.


Cool so you left them in a while, any other husbandry type stuff you used? I know you give them and the blue jeans UVB, any other stuff like substrate or supps you think helped?


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## swampfoxjjr (Nov 13, 2007)

You are really are to be congratulated, Rob. Were it not for a hand few like you all those importations back in the day would have been for nothing. I read your site every now and again looking for updates and I would love to hear how you turned the corner with these wonderful animals. Congrats again man!


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

Rob,

Congrats and well done. The saddles are great frogs, I love the way they "spider walk" around the tank instead of hopping. Plus like pumilios they don't care if you watch them do what they do.

Do you use paprika or anything as dust supplements?

I've seen both orange and intense red frogs on the same diet. Will be interesting to see if the offspring show any signs of hue variance.

Keep up the great husbandry
Eric


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Good job, congrats.....good to know a few of these are still out there and in capable hands. I hope you get some more pairs together. Is your friend having any breeding luck? or even still have the frogs? i hope so!


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

EricM said:


> Rob,
> 
> Congrats and well done. The saddles are great frogs, I love the way they "spider walk" around the tank instead of hopping. Plus like pumilios they don't care if you watch them do what they do.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I have only used naturose with some tinctorious tadpoles in the past but I don't supplement any of my adult frogs. I was surprised at how red they came out of the water as I had several that I raised artificially that came out before them and are a very light orange much like the parents.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

One thing I find interesting is how tiny Histrionicus eggs are, much smaller than even thumbnail frogs. Based on how small the feeder eggs must be, what type of artificial rearing did you use Robb? 
Very nice success on the F2's.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

markpulawski said:


> One thing I find interesting is how tiny Histrionicus eggs are, much smaller than even thumbnail frogs. Based on how small the feeder eggs must be, what type of artificial rearing did you use Robb?
> Very nice success on the F2's.


Thanks Mark. Trying a few different things, some I've done before and some new ideas, some similar to what I was doing with Blue Jeans pumilio, ie. surrogates and other dart frog eggs. As far as using other eggs I start with eggs from the parents and then as they get larger I use eggs from pumilio or non-obligate feeders. I have also raised them entirely on auratus and tinctorious eggs (with "egg-white" removed) and so far there hasn't been much difference in success ratio long term between using obligate's eggs vs. non-obligate's eggs.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

ChrisK said:


> Cool so you left them in a while, any other husbandry type stuff you used? I know you give them and the blue jeans UVB, any other stuff like substrate or supps you think helped?


I think leaving them in the tank is probably a must though I'm still not quite sure of the reasoning. The UV could be a factor though I have lost several that were artificially raised that were obviously not in the parents tank but exposed to about the same amount of UV. These made it a few months and though quite healthy looking did not make it, so UV alone isn't a must have. I also have another "artificial" froglet that is being raised with no UV and it has made it longer than some of the "UV" froglets. There are so many parameters that I'm probably not even considering it's still hard to make broad statements about what works and what doesn't.


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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

Hey robb,
Here in europe we have some sort of 'new' feeder.
It has become very popular in the last 2 years or so, but it appears it has tremedous effect on breeding successes of all dartfrogs in a way.
I think in english they are called Bean Aphids, you culture them on small bean plants (1-2inch big plants)

They are relatively small and all the frogs just love them.
They are very nutricious and even the very small frogs take the small aphids.

I've had very good success and a survival rate that increased alot for my pumilio's with them. Maybe it's something you could try aswell?


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

flyingkip said:


> Hey robb,
> Here in europe we have some sort of 'new' feeder.
> It has become very popular in the last 2 years or so, but it appears it has tremedous effect on breeding successes of all dartfrogs in a way.
> I think in english they are called Bean Aphids, you culture them on small bean plants (1-2inch big plants)
> ...


Thier where over here at one point too..i know a friend of mine had some at one time.
Brian


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

flyingkip said:


> Hey robb,
> Here in europe we have some sort of 'new' feeder.
> It has become very popular in the last 2 years or so, but it appears it has tremedous effect on breeding successes of all dartfrogs in a way.
> I think in english they are called Bean Aphids, you culture them on small bean plants (1-2inch big plants)
> ...


Thanks for the info, I will look into it. I have though about adding "standard" aphids that I find on a few of my outdoor plants every year, but they don't seem to move at all and I would be afraid of them damaging plants in the viv. I'll definitely have to look into the "Bean" aphid since you all are having success with them. Doesn't sound too hard to culture.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

dart_king said:


> ok but how hard is it to find them for sale, if the person was willing to pay the price?


Dart King, with frogs like this what you often find is that the people who have them aren't just out to make a small fortune with them--they want them to do well in captivity, so the frogs frequently go to people the owner knows have adequate experience and/or husbandry skills and will most likely do well with the species.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

You can get the pea aphids here in the US : Berkshire Biological - All Products/Aphids- 50

They are plant specific, so they will only eat plants in the pea family, I used fava beans and just sprouted them. The only problem I had was they ate through the plants so fast it was hard to keep up with them and my culture crashed. But a really productive feeder for sure, maybe you can give it a shot and figure a good method out. Here's some online instructions:

Procedure for Producing Pea Aphids

aphids as food

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ca...-culturing-pea-aphids-acyrtosiphon-pisum.html

Sorry if this is off-topic.. flyingkip - maybe you can start a new thread to share your culture methods with us?

Back to topic.. nice job on the f2's! that would be pretty cool if they pump out some f3's later in the year too.


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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

Michael, I will take pictures this week of how I culture them from step to step.

Yeah that's the only disadvantage I've found from them.
You really need to make new cultures every week so you have fresh plants ready at all times. 

But I'll explain in that other topic I'll make. I'll post a link in here once it's made.


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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/38600-culturing-pea-aphids.html#post343928

I tried to make a little article with pictures of who I culture those Aphids I was talking about.

Hope you can see how they are cultured, they are an excellent food source and my frogs love it! 
The small aphids are a very good foodsource for a newly morphed froglets, even pumilio hatchlings.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

skylsdale said:


> Dart King, with frogs like this what you often find is that the people who have them aren't just out to make a small fortune with them--they want them to do well in captivity, so the frogs frequently go to people the owner knows have adequate experience and/or husbandry skills and will most likely do well with the species.


Hahahaha. Oh, I needed a laugh this am.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

frogfarm said:


> Hahahaha. Oh, I needed a laugh this am.


You are right, sometimes this isn't the case, but many times it is.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Robb - just saw some this weekend for the first time. They are nice. 

So, how are is your email and pm count going? Is everyone contacting you?


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

melissa68 said:


> Robb - just saw some this weekend for the first time. They are nice.
> 
> So, how are is your email and pm count going? Is everyone contacting you?



Only those that know they have enough experience that I would even consider sending them to.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

rmelancon said:


> Only those that know they have enough experience that I would even consider sending them to.


Well im waiting for em?!?! I got the viv all ready, sure its a mixed species viv with 3 kinds of darts, and 2 gecko species and a tarantula, and scorpion...but i think they'll be fine...its a 10 gal after all, plenty of room!!!


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Dendro Dave said:


> Well im waiting for em?!?! I got the viv all ready, sure its a mixed species viv with 3 kinds of darts, and 2 gecko species and a tarantula, and scorpion...but i think they'll be fine...its a 10 gal after all, plenty of room!!!


As long as it's a desert scorpion, that will be great.

Awesome frogs! Don't get to see those much.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Anoleo2 said:


> As long as it's a desert scorpion, that will be great.
> 
> Awesome frogs! Don't get to see those much.


Ofcourse, its a desert viv after all....i heard histros like it really dry! Cant wait for em to arrive


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

10 gallon tank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will never see them, i think a 2.5 will be good enough...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Any updates on these guys?


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Mitch said:


> Any updates on these guys?


Lost a bunch of cb adults to some sort of eye infection. Pretty big setback, still have the original pair and a couple left from the group though. Focusing on other morphs right now but hope to get back to these soon.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Wow, very sorry to hear that. Hopefully you are successful with the other ones you are focusing on for now and you can get these ones back breeding again soon.
Bryan


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

rmelancon said:


> Lost a bunch of cb adults to some sort of eye infection. Pretty big setback, still have the original pair and a couple left from the group though. Focusing on other morphs right now but hope to get back to these soon.


Robb can you describe it? I lost an 8 month old histrionicus to some strange eye condition also (I THINK that's what did it..........), it seemed like it's eye was extremely swollen from the time it was about a month out of the water, it would go away sometimes but then re-appear.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

rmelancon said:


> Lost a bunch of cb adults to some sort of eye infection. Pretty big setback, still have the original pair and a couple left from the group though. Focusing on other morphs right now but hope to get back to these soon.


Very rough, sorry to hear.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

rmelancon said:


> Lost a bunch of cb adults to some sort of eye infection. Pretty big setback, still have the original pair and a couple left from the group though. Focusing on other morphs right now but hope to get back to these soon.


Ouch... sucks man.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

ChrisK said:


> Robb can you describe it? I lost an 8 month old histrionicus to some strange eye condition also (I THINK that's what did it..........), it seemed like it's eye was extremely swollen from the time it was about a month out of the water, it would go away sometimes but then re-appear.


I may have posted pics here at some point, not sure though. Basically started as a cloudiness in the eye. Almost like grayish fluid pooled at the bottom of the eye, think crescent gray shape at bottom of eye, then progressed to complete cloudy eye which then progressed to swolen eye, blistered, eye bursting, blind then dead. Several people with Lita have had the same thing. Had several animals necropsied and unfortunately they could never find a source of the infection.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Interesting. This is the same thing (likely a bacterial infection) that presented in a few of the Atelopus hoogmoedi that recently came in. If treated immediately, treatment was successful with (at least visually) full recovery (at least in my two cases).


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

Awesome frogs sir!


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

stemcellular said:


> Interesting. This is the same thing (likely a bacterial infection) that presented in a few of the Atelopus hoogmoedi that recently came in. If treated immediately, treatment was successful with (at least visually) full recovery (at least in my two cases).


What were they treated with? We went through several medications, can't rember the names but anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, etc.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I'll have to check what I used Robb, at home...it was a 'gel' drops meant for fish, antibiotic.

I've only seen it in the imported Atelopus, but I know of someone who had a different histo morph that developed the cloudy eye 'infection'

Various things have been blamed, including the spikes on the ends of broms we use, to wet living conditions, to lack of air movt., stress/abrasions.

S


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

sports_doc said:


> I'll have to check what I used Robb, at home...it was a 'gel' drops meant for fish, antibiotic.
> 
> I've only seen it in the imported Atelopus, but I know of someone who had a different histo morph that developed the cloudy eye 'infection'
> 
> ...


Yeah, I got all the same responses, but for many reasons I believe it was a pathonegen (sp?). If it was any of the things they said, there would be no reason why every one of my other animals wouldn't have the same thing.


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

I cured a few cloudy eyes with ciloxan.. pretty sure the frogs were doomed if not of that treatment. It is an ointment

historical shame for histrionicas!
please tell me you WILL be putting some more efforts eventually on those awesome frogs....

oh and where is your name from? are you from Quebec?


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

rmelancon said:


> I may have posted pics here at some point, not sure though. Basically started as a cloudiness in the eye. Almost like grayish fluid pooled at the bottom of the eye, think crescent gray shape at bottom of eye, then progressed to complete cloudy eye which then progressed to swolen eye, blistered, eye bursting, blind then dead. Several people with Lita have had the same thing. Had several animals necropsied and unfortunately they could never find a source of the infection.


I immediately thought of this pic I saw awhile back on Dr. Wright's site when I read the above. An issue with vitamin A deficiency.

Arizona Exotic Animal Hospital


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Paul G said:


> I immediately thought of this pic I saw awhile back on Dr. Wright's site when I read the above. An issue with vitamin A deficiency.
> 
> Arizona Exotic Animal Hospital


That doesn't look like it's in the actual eyeball, more in the eye socket. I'll find a pic and post it.


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## nrbelk (Nov 16, 2014)

Are these frogs still around?


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