# Whats better to spark interest??



## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Wondering what some of the members take on this is.

1. In a 1.1, adding another female to the tank to spark interest in the male?...(wrestling and establishing territory)

2. Vice versa, adding another male to the equation, to see if it sparks the female?

3. Leaving them alone and hopping they just pick it up on their own??

Reason I ask is because of my Giant oranges, got them as a breeding pair in September, and i figured it'd be a while before they bred, Saw courting in January, and got one bad clutch of 5 eggs is Jan. Then they laid another clutch of 8 on 2-22-12, and it was a great looking clutch, but unfortunately all well bad as well. So Im just curious why its taking these guys so long in-between eggs?? All of my other tincs lay every single week sometimes more than once a week.

So just wondering what some of you think, or have had past experiences adding a male or female to the pair? 

Thanks,


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Before I tried those things, Id try a dry cycle, or putting them in a different viv, or a few weeks of termite feeding


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

About the dry cycle both times they laid eggs there was about about 2 days where I did not mist the tank and then they laid. I just hooked up my misting system yesterday for my 8 breeding tanks lol, that sucks...

never fed termites but that sounds fun...ill check the classifieds 

l just installed the shut off valve for that tank haha


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## Cutterfly (Apr 9, 2009)

Hi,
If I have this with some of my tincs I put the female in another empty tank for about 2 weeks up to 2 month. It is neccassary to do this with the female, not the male. The male has to stay in its territory. I then heavily feed both. It isn't neccassary to put them in dry season, but you should spray moderate, not to much. 
When I put back the female to the male, the male first thinks it to be an enemy in his territory, but the female soon starts stroking over the males back and usually they start laying huge clutches.

I sometimes do so, when I buy a new pair, just to verify it is worth breeding with them. If this doesn't work after several weeks, I don't use the pair for breeding.

Sounds as if I wouldn't care if I myself do something wrong, I know, but that's the way it usually works for me.

greets,
CF


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Here are a few things that have helped me. But for the record, I don't have a ton of experience with Dendrobates.

1. Like Jason said, a dry cycle, as well as less feeding. Then just ease them into it a bit, feed a little everyday instead of more less often. then just mist like crazy.

2. Exchange males. Females of some species can be picky. with Ranitomeya, and especially pumilio, this helps.

3. Move them to a new tank. Doesn't necessarily have to be bigger or better or anything, just a bit different.


A well known member out here starts off his frogs in plastic tubs and keeps them there for a long time (even 6 months). Then when he introduces them to their permanent enclosure, bam, eggs  It even worked with granuliferus! I haven't tried this but I definitely can't argue with his success.

Also, just try separating the female for a bit like cutterfly said. I don't know how old they are but with tincs it doesn't hurt to hold off breeding for quite a while. Make sure they live up to the "giant" portion of their names


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

thanks everyone for your input. They are of age for sure, They are Giant, and I've had them for a littler over 6 months, but they were full grown when i got them. Like i said I mean they have laid 2 clutches in the past 2 months. I know about removing the female from the tank, and giving them a dry season, power feeding etc. etc, I haven't tried removing the female yet, but all of the above Ive tried. 

I guess what I was really after in this thread was to see if anyone had experience adding another female or male to the equation watching the females duke it out for a bit then see if that got the original female interested, or if you guys think its a bad idea or good idea??

What I was hoping for was, the two females fight it out for ehhhh.....lets say 20 minutes or so, then after the extra female was removed from the tank, the original female claims her male that she has won, from then on they court and lay eggs. I believe the clutches they did lay were about 25 days apart


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Sounds like you already have a plan.
I'ld like to see some more independant verification of Bill Schwinn's suggestion to use Folic Acid.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/74657-lorenzo-clutch-watch-19.html#post696054
I have a pair that ignored each other for 6 months, I seperated them for a month. Then put them back together. Worked like a charm. Been getting big clutches every10 days or so since. I did feed them a few flies dusted with Folic Acid as Bill suggested to someone else. But I think it was the seperation that got them going again.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

A plan? Yes I do have a plan but I don't want to try this plan if its not a good idea and other have tried before and had bad experiences . . . thats why Im trying to get some feedback.

I guess Ill separate them then


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## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

Separation sounds a little cheaper than buying another frog too


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Well I have an extra regina female...figured I could use her, I wouldn't be leaving the frog in the tank over night or anything I'm talking 20-40 minutes....Tops so technically I could use any "larger" female tinctorius since I won't e leaving them in the ank nearly long enough to interbreed, but it seems I can't get any feedback from any one who has maybe tried this...so I guess I'm just not going to.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Why don't you just take your male and add him to the viv with the extra female. Assuming she is in a tank by herself. Maybe play a tinc call for a few minutes and see how they respond.
Then you can let us all know how it went in an hour or so.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Not by herself... Shares with 2 other female tincs, I'd feel awful throwing a male in there!! Haha It'd be like throwing a good looking boy in all girl boarding school lol


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## Cutterfly (Apr 9, 2009)

Okay... feedback: I put another female (0.1 Azureus) to my not courting Citronella pair about 2 years ago. The female is very chunky, almost same size than the Citronella female has been, so I didn't worry too much about doing this. Well, exactly nothing happened... for hours. They just glanced at each other for a while and then started doing normal froggy things, eating, sitting around, nothing. So I then decided to try it with my Azureus male instead. Only reaction has been, the Azureus MALE hang around with my Citronella MALE. So you see, this didn't work for me but irritating my well breeding Azureus pair 
So while this method *may* work for someone, it often doesn't because the frogs you try this in general aren't ready for breeding for some reason (that's *why* you try it) and the method with seperation in most cases works way better as it brings the frogs back to a relaxed and bold state.

greets,
CF


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, I have a tank with a proven female azureus, proven female citronella, proven female regina, so It would not be breaking any current breeding pairs. But after reading you post I decided what the heck, threw in my proven female Azureus, and in about 15 seconds the Giant orange female came over, and holy crap did they go at it!! I let them go at it for about 5-10 minutes then put the female azureus back in its original tank. 

After the Azureus was out the the Giant Orange tank, the female was still so bent out of shape she was confused and wrestled the male that she has laid clutches with maybe 2 times but the male quickly escaped her grasp. maybe 5 minutes later the female is following the male around and gently stroking, I doubt that they will lay today, but they are courting( or maybe she's apologizing lol). Either way I don't think Ill be doing this anymore, for the main reason of putting to much stress on the females. It was like a hardcore battle, I've never seen wrestling like this. I think if I didn't separate them, they would have fought til the death.


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## Cutterfly (Apr 9, 2009)

Nonetheless interesting, that it worked completely different for you than for me  
I for myself think it's always better to separate, than to stimulate them the way you did - not just to avoid stress, but because if two tincs which already layed eggs together don't do anything for a longer time, this is a hint for me that there is something wrong with supplementation or they just have a break for some (good) reason. 
I know people, who think their tincs would produce some "testosteron" by rivalry, but I don't believe this. What counts one or two small clutches which they may lay due to stress against frequently good ones due to good and easy to handle supplementation while separated?

If you would have asked this for Epipedobates or Ameerega I'd see this completely different, the more rivalry (several calling males, etc.) the better, but for tincs I think this isn't neccassary.

Just my two cents.
greets,
CF


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks cutterfly, I absolutely agree with you, that the separation method is much better all around, I guess I was just curious to what would happen. I don't think supplementation is a problem, for all of my other tincs lay eggs regularly, and they all dusted with repashy calcium plus.

I may try switching back to my sups, which was repeal, and hertivite or whatever, I used to use that and had absolutely no issue with offspring, breeding or anything.


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## rahunt2 (Jan 4, 2009)

I agree that there are several other things to try first but I have been able to get reluctant individuals to breed after a brief tussle of a couple minutes. It goes better if you can make them think they won the fight.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

rahunt2 said:


> I agree that there are several other things to try first but I have been able to get reluctant individuals to breed after a brief tussle of a couple minutes. It goes better if you can make them think they won the fight.



Well I didn't have to make the GO think she won. . . She absolutely beat the [email protected]# out the proven azureus


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

When my leucs started breeding, they were all 4 in the same 55g and the huge female would literally flatten the other female (and another that I'd think would be female as well). It was nuts !

I seperated them and split the 55g so it is 1.1 on one side and 0.2 on the other. My 1.1 group laid 2 clutches and that has been it since mid January. Male really only calls during lights out and female only seems interested in the call I play outside the viv instead of the leuc vibrating and calling right infront of her face lol.

I've thought about taking out the male and putting him on the other side with the other female....and taking out one of the females from the other side and sticking it in with the proven female...but would the calling provoke the proven female to go after the other new female in the tank? It has not been an issue with the current set up, but I dunno !Something I've been pondering and after reading your thread, make me think about it more. I agree with some females will wrestle like they are in a WWE deathmatch !

Best of luck to you !


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## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

Interesting stuff. I bet its probably different for each species.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Just to update everyone, last week there were no eggs laid, just a really small amount of courting on the wrestle day. but Yesterday Wednesday the 21st from the moment the lights were on Hot and heavy courting!!. . . and they spent the majority of the day and night in the hut so I knew Id have eggs this morning. and Yes I have 9 eggs In a really tightly packed clutch, but what I find interesting is that it has been exactly 4 weeks since the last breeding, they laid a clutch of 8 in Febuary Wednesday the 22nd...so Exactly 4 weeks!! Anyone else's tincs lay every 4 weeks as apposed to once every 7-10 days??

here is the clutch. . .


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