# First viv/paludarium! (lots of pics)



## holden (Sep 4, 2007)

Hey folks,

I've been lurking off and on for a year or so. I just now got to make my own viv. It's a 26 gallon bowfront. I originally intended for this viv to house dart frogs but now I'm not so sure. There's really not much ground space and it sounds like all the beginner PDFs are mainly terrestrial. There's also some concern about the large water area. There are several places to climb out, but the land area overhangs quite a bit, some I'm a little worried about that. Any input?

I had 4 cardinal tetras that were going in the water area. They were the last four from a school of 12 that used to be in this tank when it was an aquarium 4 or 5 years ago. But....I moved them to a bucket (with filter/heater) while building this viv...and it never occurred to me that fish jump . So all four of them committed mass sushi-cide one night. Now I'm thinking about a small school of tiger barbs.

Other possibilities for the land area if PDFs won't work are red-eyed tree frogs, a whites tree frog, or possibly a crested gecko?

Anyway....pics.









Full shot. Not quite done planting yet. I'm looking for a few Tillandsias to fill in the area over the waterfall and possibly another brom. Creeping fig will hopefully fill in the gaps that are left.









Sedum makinoi "Ogon"









Pilea mollis "Moon Valley"









Nephthytis









African Violet









Waterfall









The water area from above









Reflections...

And two pics of the moonlight:



















So there it is! I was a little discouraged while building it but once the plants went in, I'm happy with how it turned out. Now just hoping the plants live 8)


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## Abbathx (Aug 15, 2007)

i would put some Dendrobates Leucomelas in there i think they would utilize what you have on the ground and will climb the hell out of your viv. mine leuc's do nothing but climb and i have a good size water area where they liek to swim and they make a perfect begginers they were my begginer PDF.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Yeah, takes about a week to know if plants will live, mine didn't at first, sun damage, KEEP OUT OF DIRECT SUN AND PROVIDE ENOUGH LIGHT! Water regularly for first week so plants get settled, and open door to viv alot to provide airflow for first week too, like once a day keep open for 5 min or so. I did this just to let my plants get some fresh moving air.

But I love the set up. looks a little temperate forest/tropical, I like it, not too dense. If I were you, I wouldn't add any more plants, just let these grow in. I like it alot!


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Hey, I forgot for some ideas.


Add some x-ray tetras, they naturally occur in static water pools in south America.

Maybe a crayfish?

and in terms of reptile/amphibian... look into some tree frogs. or possible some sort of gecko(s) House Gecko?

How about some small snake that like to climb?

maybe not reptile all together, maybe some cool rare spider.


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## holden (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm limited in terms of animal choice because the viv wont have UVA/B lighting or a basking spot. I like crested geckos but the humidity in this viv might be too much for them. Red eyed tree frogs are a possibility. I thought about Leucs also.

I noticed today that the leaves on the brom are starting to curl on the ends. They aren't turning brown, but all the leaves have a sort of kink on the end. I could have too much light. There's two 40W and one 60W CFL over it. All the other plants look good. But I might leave the 60W off for a few days and see what happens.


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## holden (Sep 4, 2007)

Everything seems to be doing fine so far. The Sedum is growing nicely. Creeping fig looks like it's growing. Everything else is staying alive, looking fine. There's some type of brown/beige mold or fungus growing around the waterfall/pond area. It looks like dried mud. Hopefully not a cause for concern? It was mainly on the small piece of driftwood I had there, so I took it out.

Funny thing...some of the willow branches are sprouting new shoots. When I took a couple of the branches out to plant the plants last week, I noticed they had grown some little roots. I just snipped em off. Well now there are little green stems growing out of the branches in some spots. It adds a cool little touch to the viv right now, but hopefully it doesn't become a problem in the future. The branches came from a weeping willow in the front yard. I wanted something other than the usual driftwood.

I'm going to take a clearer picture of the tank this weekend. Lights are out for tonight.

Any suggestions? It's sort of weird for me to be posting here I guess, since I'm not sure if I'm putting PDF's in this tank. But I got a lot of ideas and inspiration from all the awesome vivs here, so I figured I'd post mine.

Still waiting for the funds to be replenished so I can order the tillandsias and build the hood. Then it'll be time to make up my mind about the fauna.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

There are enough people on here that keep other stuff so ideally you'd come up with something 

I don't recomend fish in the water section... all the rules for fish keeping still apply, and I just don't think you've got enough space for a solid fish set up... and considering how hard it would be to get in there and clean it, I think it'd be more trouble than it's worth. I definately wouldn't put in barbs (they are nippers, and would nip frogs!) and "x-ray" tetras can be sensitive.

The willow sounds like it will become a problem... so you may want to think about how to get it out before it roots in and you really have to take the tank apart :shock: Kinda sucks, I thought they were cool... good news is, they probably won't rot in the tank. Bad news is, they will definately push the lid off your tank!

What I liked about the tank... is that it would work for a couple of non-PDF frogs  Like... Clown Treefrogs (_H./D. leucophyllata_), Marbled Treefrogs (_H. marmorata_), various reed frogs, Hatchet-faced Treefrogs (_Sphaenorhynchus_ ssp., often sold as "glass treefrogs" because they are see thru), and possibly also some malaysian stuff, but they are kinda rare except for _Theloderma corticale_. Most of those frogs can be found captive bred (except for the Hatchets, and reeds are not that common anymore) and have proven to be hardy captives. They all breed around marshy conditions so they wouldn't mind all the water, as long as they had branches and strong leaved plants to move around on. If you cycled the tank a little bit (let it dry out, don't mist, let water level lower... then increase misting, raise water, that type thing) you'd even get them breeding in the tank (tho the theloderma will breed even without that!) and then you'd have bunches of tads in the pond  I'd just put a larger leaved climber on the background rather than the creeping fig, and maybe a couple more small neos (depending on if the frogs in there liked to sleep wedged in broms, undersides of leaves, or both).


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Also - fungus is totally normal for the first few weeks, even tho the tank will look like crap. This is especially true of driftwood. If it really bothers you, you can take your mister and wash it off... but likely it will come back. It's a natural part of the cycling of the tank, and eventually the overload of fungi will tone down to normal (most mostly not visable) levels in the tank.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

There will ALWAYS be fungus though. Fungus (microrizae) is good for the plants. Lots of plants, especially tropicals, benefit greatly form the fungus in the soil, enhancing the plants roots systems and efficiency in absorbing nutrients (normally poor and quick turn over in the jungle)

But my drift wood only had mold (alot of it too) for about 3 weeks, then it is gone, and now most of my plants are filling in too.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Reed frog yes... that is what I couldn't think of earlier.

But in terms of x-ray fish. I read up on them and naturally live in static pools of run off from larger rivers in S. America in humid environments, BUT I kinda agree with kero about the space thing.

I am designing a tank for fish AND RETFs, but I know that the RETFs will only go down to water to breed, and I am making the water feature HUGE! so plenty of room for fish and having enough moving water (waterfall)


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Sorry about triple posting...

But maybe stick those willow (I think I read it correctly they will not rot) in the oven to maybe dry them out, then let them cool down and air dry more, to pretty much kill them, then place them back in the viv.

Yes, willow is an EASY rooter and will sprout roots from almost anywhere touching soil. And they grow big, fast and maybe not best for the viv, they LOVE moisture, hence the reason found near marshes.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

As a freshwater aquarist as well as frog keeper, I have a bad habit of cringing every time people say they want fish in their tanks. I've seen some amazing paludariums developed over the last few years that have made me turn around my "no fish in frog tanks" rule, but the people involved did their homework both about the terrestrial and aquatic, and the things were massive to provide stable environments across the board.

The "x-ray tetras" aka _Pristella maxillaris_, is a great fish, don't get me wrong... but they get the better part of 2 inches, are shoaling fish (min of 5 needed for happy fish) and really should be in a min of 20 gallons. They are a very hardy and adaptable fish, but that does not mean they will be successful in anything less than 10g. Now if you do a 100 gallon with 1/4 of the tank water - 25g - then they'd actually be a great candidate, much hardier than the cardinal tetras.

MonopolyBag - While I know live willow will never rot in wetness... I'm not so sure dead willow will stand up nearly as well. Would be interesting to see if that is the case or not... but I have a feeling it doesn't last long.

Also - RETFs try and deposit their eggs over bodies of water that do not have fish in them... might be worth a try if you tank is large enough to have the fish in the palud section, then a smaller (a few of gallons or so) bit of water with their prefered egg mass plants over it. You can have pretty fish to watch, but still give the RETFs the pool they need to breed. Say... a pool of water from part of the waterfall that overflows back into the waterfall and then into the fish section... I've seen it done in a large tank... you'd never guess that the little pool of water was actually something like a 3g bucket sitting on bricks and surrounded by moss covered lava rock


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

OK thanks for the info kero... Yeah, I am working on the tank, but I do plan to remove the eggs. But I know they still like water. I have done my research, and am continue (you as helping)

About the willow, sry, didn't think about the part that once dead, probably rot. Sry, wasn't thinking.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

No worries, I didn't think about it either until something clicked in my head that it didn't seem totally right. Gotta learn somehow!


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

yup...


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## gramitch (Aug 7, 2007)

How about killifish in the water section


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

love the plant selection!!


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## HappyHippos1 (May 7, 2007)

Yea I'm interested in some killifish? Anyone know of any sellers on here? Not trying to hijack the topic. Great viv btw.


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