# Best strain of melanogaster to use?



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

What is everyone's opinion on the different FF strains out there. Ignoring the wild type flies, which would be the most prolific. Has anyone dealt with the "gliders" or "curly winged" flies? I had a culture of flightless hydei going about a year ago for 2 generations before they keeled over(don't think I will mess with hydei again doesn't seem quite worth it) and they were quite a pain in the butt when they try to fly but not all that bad. Gliders sound like they could get out on you if they wanted to though.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

I really like the wingless, they are smallest and produce the most in my experience. Some frogs will like the gliders more because of the extra action they have.

Hydei hasnt given me any luck.

Frank


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

IMO the 'turksih' gliders are the best producers, I obtained mine from Derek Rader a few years ago, and now most of the people in St. Pete, including one large breeder use them to feed their collections. They are really no harder to contain than the regular melanogaster, and after a few generations you learn how to contain them.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I have three varieties of melanogaster going. The one that I find to be the most productive and have the greatest yields given my culturing methods are Turkish gliders (able to "fly" in small circles). I also have the standard winged but flightless mels, as well as the Golden Delicious variety (white in color, white eyes, no wings). They (GD) take longer to culture but are a nice feeder for froglets and smaller frogs.

I have the worst luck with Hydei. I recently started culturing D. buzzati - and so far I have had luck with them - they have a longer incubation period (~3 weeks) than mels, but are also larger. They don't move as fast either - more along the speed of hydei.


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

I use turkish gliders as well. Much better production than the wingless I cultured in the past. However, sometimes with my small froglets, I wish I had some wingless around. I stopped using several differnt lines of mutations because I kept accidently mixing the cultures (when creating new cultures) and the end result was fliers...damn fliers. So, froglets get springtails now instead of smaller flies until ready to take a glider.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Hands down, turkish gliders produce best for me, (power mix medium) but are a little harder to contain, if that matters to you.
I like working with the wingless better, but that's just my opinion, also, it could be just me, but the wingless seem to like to hang out closer to the ground...a plus for terrestrials...

They're not melago's...but I'm using simulans now too...supposed to be smaller than a melago, but from what I see, not by much...I suppose it's something like a 10oz steak compared to a 12oz. They also aren't very active, kind of like hydei, once they are in the tank, they like to just sit there and flutter their wings a little. Production seems to come a day or so earlier than the others, but the gliders still out-produce them.

I don't care for Hydei much either, production is explosive for a week, then nothing...a good place for mites to breed...


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Good to hear! From the sounds of it Turkish gliders are probably only a little more problematic than the wingless. Do they have enough pep to make a fly for it when they are being tapped out into the dusting cup? Also if anyone is willing to set me up with a starter culture let me know also.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

As the name implies, they only glide, not really fly, and the glide is also in a spiral fasion.
If you use a wider mouth dusting cup, it will help keep them where you want them.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Hmm...so do they have very weak flight muscles plus warped wings then?


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

To get around the flying problem, just use a 32oz. fruitfly cup for your dusting cup, I do not have any problems with getting them into new cultures or the dusting cup, all it takes is a liitle practice. But from the looks of it turkish gliders are a good choice.


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

Yeah. At first the gliders were getting all over the place but I'm finally getting the hang of it. But wow, they really were all over the place the first few times I tried getting some out.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

rozdaboff said:


> I have the worst luck with Hydei. I recently started culturing D. buzzati - and so far I have had luck with them - they have a longer incubation period (~3 weeks) than mels, but are also larger. They don't move as fast either - more along the speed of hydei.


I agree that the gliders culture fast and prolifically. As for hydei, I am co-culturing them with some melanogaster. I got the starter "mix culture" from Mike Shromm at IAD. I don't know which mels he has in there, but there are always enough to get things going. The mels get the medium soupy which helps prevent mold until the hydeii get cranking. I get a bloom of mels before I get any Hydeii. But I get good hydeii production after that. As others have said in the past, hydeii require a bit more patience to get consistent production. Because of their longer generation time, you have to leave adults in the culture for a few days before using them. But I think this mix strategy works well. Thanks Michael!!! 8)


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Interesting Rich. So you put both melanogaster and hydei adults into the culture for a few days to lay eggs before feeding them away? Probably want to keep some pure melano cultures around for froglets but this seems like a great idea.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

I actually leave all of the adults in the new culture at least until I see pupae. To clarify, I leave adult hydeii in the culture after they emerge from the pupa stage for several days before feeding any out to allow them to mature and lay more eggs.

And yes, I actually keep flightless, glider and golden delicious mels as well as the mel/hydeii mix.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

I have 3 starins of melonagaster wingless, wingles "blonde", and turkish gliders.

Turkish gliders produce about twice as much, wingless i consider just standard in all aspects, and blonde picky frogs will eat.


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## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

I don't understand why people have trouble culturing hydei. I make my own medium which is just an enriched version of the Carolina recipe. As long as I keep them warm ~76-80 they produce like crazy. In the winter production can be a little tougher. I have found that using mold inhibitors or too much vinegar will slow production and that making mixed cultures of hydei and melangaster helps prevnt mold. I kept getting alot of red mold and figured out I was using too much bakers yeast.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

from the sounds of it the gliders are pretty nice, i can't believe i've never heard of them. where can i pick up a culture?

edit: i just looked at some sites, are the gliders also called curly wings?


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

http://www.flyculture.com, supposedly the 'curly' wing are different from the Turkish gliders, as they are originally from the country of Turkey.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

thanks for the link, i just ordered some


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I've had problems with hydei when kept on "standard" fly mixes... switching over to Ed's Hydei mix, they do much better. They have slightly different nutritional needs than melanogasters, and depending on the media you use, this could make a significant difference in hydei cultures.

I also mix melanogaster with hydei, I just had too many problems with the hydei alone. Mike Shrom started me on this back in... 2001? Since the majority of the frogs I feed like the hydei, I mix in gliders with them, and these are my biggest producing cultures. The melanogaster only cultures were always wingless - easy not to mix them just by looking at the flies! I recently added Golden delicious to my fly production, and they were well loved until mites took out most of my cultures  I'm starting over, and need to find some cultures of GD to start them up again.

The glider (multiple strains) and curly winged outproduce wingless and GD hands down. The closer to the wild type they are, the better the production. Please note there are multiple "glider" strains... turkish gliders are different from standard gliders which are different from curly wings... similar genetic defects but different genes and when mixed you get fliers.

Wingless and GD have the benefits of being easier to work with (no leaps and glides) are somewhat smaller and better for froglets, and some frogs just prefer them. Simulans, Buzzarti, and Hydei tend to be used to compliment the more productive glider/curly melanos mostly due to size preferences... really depends on the frogs you work with and what your goals are. With smaller collections if you want an easier fly to work with, get wingless. With larger collections, more production may be needed, and more strains may be used to tailor FF "size" to diet needs of frogs.

What also comes in handy... I now "mark" my flies using different colored foam plugs from Ed's.... black for mixed hydei cultures, green for wingless, white for TD.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

I have to agree with Heather . . . I don't have any problems with hydei production. For pure biomass, my hydei cultures seem to outproduce my melanogasters; but both produce flies like mad until the media dries out or is eaten completely. 

I raise both on a very "generic" mix, and use the same amount of vinegar in both, despite the fact that I have heard others say that hydei do not like vinegar in their mix. I don't really see any special nutritional needs for hydei.

I am going to try using grapefruit juice as my acid source (anti-fungal) just because my wife hates the smell of vinegar, and I don't think the honey trick really works.


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