# Pillbugs, sowbugs, rollie pollies, wood lice???



## AReaHerps (Jul 27, 2012)

So I know the dark shiny ones are rollie pollies and the other ones are pill bugs or wood lice right? So which ones do I want to culture for my vivarium? Are they both considered isopods? Does it matter which one I use? Can I culture them together? 

Also, I ordered some dwarf purples and only got a tiny amount in a 1 ounce container and they are TINY! Are they really that small? Any advice on all these questions would be awesome. Thanks guys. 

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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

I can't comment on how many you received but Yes, the purples are TINY.

From what I understand (and I may be way off) all wood lice / pill bugs / rollie pollies are Isopods, just different names / varieties. I've heard people say that the rollie pollies aren't as good for the frogs since they have a harder shell and are harder to digest. I'm not sure where you got the ones in your picture, but if you picked them up from outside you probably don't want to use them in your vivs (they may carry parasites or diseases).

Mixing different kinds isn't really recommended, either. They may eat each other's babies and one kind will usually out compete the other. Also, you definitely don't want to mix your cultured isopods with anything you got from outside without sterilizing it.


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## AReaHerps (Jul 27, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I was wondering about their shells too. The darker rollie pollies seemed to have harder shells. I wasn't planning on mixing them or putting them in my viv... Yet. I I'm mainly trying to culture them for a couple of months in the hopes to introduce them into some spider and gecko cages. The dwarf purples are for the frog viv. 

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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

The backyard "rollie pollies" can also take 14 months or even quite a bit longer, before reaching sexual maturity. That would make for one slooooww to produce culture!
I culture all my isopod varieties as a monoculture. I do, however, mix different types in my vivs. In well set up vivs, with plenty of leaf litter (like 2" thick), they are doing just fine together.
The most commonly used varieties in the frog hobby are:
Dwarf White
Dwarf Purple/Junglepod/Costa Rican (same)
Dwarf Gray/Striped
Giant Orange/Spanish Orange (same)


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## Frog Tropics (Jul 18, 2012)

The cool thing about the dwarf ones if you keep thumbnails is that the adults are too large for most thumbs to eat, but the offspring/juveniles are not, so if you have a sufficient population to start with, the will keep breeding and producing food inside the thumbnail enclosure (whereas my tincs love pods and oftentimes just wipe them out despite my best efforts to keep the food chain going).


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Frog Tropics said:


> The cool thing about the dwarf ones if you keep thumbnails is that the adults are too large for most thumbs to eat, but the offspring/juveniles are not, so if you have a sufficient population to start with, the will keep breeding and producing food inside the thumbnail enclosure (whereas my tincs love pods and oftentimes just wipe them out despite my best efforts to keep the food chain going).


You should try the Giant Orange for tincs and other larger frogs.


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## AReaHerps (Jul 27, 2012)

I'll be honest, I cannot see how it's anywhere near feasible to spend $10-$12 / package of isopods. I thought I was going to get a lot more than I got. I received a tiny 2oz plastic container filled with bedding and from what I saw, maybe 15-20 super tiny isopods. It's ludicrous to me that they would be that expensive. There's no way I'm putting them in my viv until I get at least a couple hundred. I'll look into some of those giant orange. Any suggestions where I could get affordable isopods? Thanks for the tips. 

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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Obviously you have absolutely no idea how much space, time, and effort goes into keeping many multiple types of feeders clean and mite free. Then there is all the time wrapped up in sterilizing media, and packaging bugs. You wouldn't believe the amount of time involved in the back and forth PMs asking for information on keeping them, what kind do I need, I have 7 vivs so how many do I need...and the questions go on. 
To my customers, don't get me wrong, I don't mind the questions, I'm just explaining why bugs cost money.
Now every single time I ship, I have to take off work early in order to do preparations, boxing, labels, prepping Phase panels, driving them to the post office, etc.
Nobody but nobody will pay $50 to ship bugs! Frogs, sure, but bugs? Not gonna happen. So we are forced to ship through USPS priority. Fully 20% of USPS priority shipments do NOT get there in the estimated 2 days. Some locations are estimated in 3 days. The 3 day priority shipments can easily take 4. No matter how well you package them, three and four day shipments can freeze in the winter and bake in the summer. Who do you think takes the loss on a dead shipment of bugs? I'll give you a hint, no shipping company will cover live items with the exception of SYR which does not apply here. They cover overnight shipments only and only if it is shipped within a certain window of temperatures.
Furthermore, when buying isopods and springtails, you are typically buying a STARTER culture. It's up to you to turn 25 bugs in thousands. If you are unaware that you are purchasing a starter culture, then you have not bothered to do your homework or ask the seller any questions at all.

Now I was *NOT* the seller of this package. I don't know who was but I'll defend him. 20 or 25 is a typical number of isopods included in a small starter culture. It is obvious that you did not count them as you say 15 or 20 were included. If you saw 15 or 20 without counting, I would be willing to bet there are at least 30 to 50. You can argue that, but you have hand counted exactly zero cultures while I have hand counted more than possibly anybody on this board with very few exceptions.

Super tiny? Uhh, didn't you say you ordered dwarf purples, the tiniest used isopod in the hobby? To the rest of us, that makes them more desirable.

I thought I was going to get a lot more than I got. ASK QUESTIONS. Find out what you are ordering.

I received a tiny 2oz plastic container filled with bedding You ordered a starter culture. Would you prefer to pay double the shipping for bigger containers and bigger boxes? What difference does the container make?

There's no way I'm putting them in my viv until I get at least a couple hundred. Obviously. That is outlined in both of big culturing threads on isopods.

I'll be honest, I cannot see how it's *anywhere near feasible* to spend $10-$12 / package of isopods.
It's ludicrous to me that they would be that expensive.

Again, this was not my shipment, but thank you so very much for the public insults to me and other bug suppliers!! Especially while asking for our advice in the same paragraph.

You know, you could have inquired about the pricing structure behind bugs, rather than making a public insult about how ludicrous it is.

Peace Out. I am SO done with this thread.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

AReaHerps said:


> I'll be honest, I cannot see how it's anywhere near feasible to spend $10-$12 / package of isopods. I thought I was going to get a lot more than I got. I received a tiny 2oz plastic container filled with bedding and from what I saw, maybe 15-20 super tiny isopods. It's ludicrous to me that they would be that expensive. There's no way I'm putting them in my viv until I get at least a couple hundred. I'll look into some of those giant orange. Any suggestions where I could get affordable isopods? Thanks for the tips.
> 
> Sent from my Android Tapatalk App!


I spent $10 on my first Iso cultures around two years ago. I wonder how many times I've misted, fed and added substrate and leaves to turn that starter culture into a mother culture? I've split it at least 10 times and created multiple smaller cultures. It's a lot of time and effort and now am able to supply other froggers with them. Nope, I didn't mind spending a $10 on a culture and that was _before_ I knew how much work went into them. Personally, I think they should be twice the price...They're a lot tougher to get going then springs and flies, eh...


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I have a question for the OP and I`m not trying to beat a dead horse here. Are you sure you received a 2oz container? That`s about the size of something you would put ketchup in at Burger King.

John


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I have been told 2oz containers are used.
Sorry.

John


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## AReaHerps (Jul 27, 2012)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> I have a question for the OP and I`m not trying to beat a dead horse here. Are you sure you received a 2oz container? That`s about the size of something you would put ketchup in at Burger King.
> 
> John


The container was either 1oz or 2oz.

Thanks for the input everyone. I guess I'll just need to be patient about the Isopod culture. 

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## AReaHerps (Jul 27, 2012)

So I wasn't going to respond to the person that was obviously very upset about my post. First of all, I apologize directly to you for that and to all of those which may have been offended. That was not my intent. Am I new to the hobby? Yes! And when people come here to learn, research, etc one of the worst things is to get people like that go overboard and rip into newbies. It does seem crazy to me that they are expensive but I do understand why now they are so expensive. Couldn't it have been presented in a more professional and understanding manner? Again, I apologize for upsetting you and others but that was not my intent. Through people's ignorance, it presents the best opportunity to teach someone, not to rip them apart. Thank you though for the insight on the bugs. I honestly appreciate it and appreciate what I did receive now and I look forward to the challenge of getting my culture to explode. 

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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

AReaHerps said:


> Couldn't it have been presented in a more professional and understanding manner? Again, I apologize for upsetting you and others but that was not my intent. Through people's ignorance, it presents the best opportunity to teach someone, not to rip them apart. Thank you though for the insight on the bugs. I honestly appreciate it and appreciate what I did receive now and I look forward to the challenge of getting my culture to explode.


You are going to consider this being ripped apart but I think you really need to look at your posts here.. In this post you are alternating apologies with bitching about one of the people that tends to be very helpful on this forum and rarely lays into a person. If you want to have a professional or polite responses you should consider how you come across in your post(s). In this one, you really don't sound sincere about your apologies.... As for the post which triggered the response of being "ripped apart" which is quoted below 



AReaHerps said:


> I'll be honest, I cannot see how it's anywhere near feasible to spend $10-$12 / package of isopods. I thought I was going to get a lot more than I got. I received a tiny 2oz plastic container filled with bedding and from what I saw, maybe 15-20 super tiny isopods. It's ludicrous to me that they would be that expensive. There's no way I'm putting them in my viv until I get at least a couple hundred. I'll look into some of those giant orange. Any suggestions where I could get affordable isopods?


You come back into your thread and trash a transaction with a person who supplied you with some isopods and while you didn't name names, it was clear you thought you were being ripped off. You could have simply asked if what you had was a fair price instead of starting a bitch fest... I didn't respond to your post earlier because Doug responded to it but I thought a lot of the same things Doug did. If you don't ask questions before you spend your money, then you shouldn't complain about the results. I culture three (possibly four) types of isopods and I spent that price for some of them for the same volume and never thought I was getting ripped off.. Your not only paying for individual organisms but the time, effort and supplies that went into those cultures and the starter cultures. Very few of the isopods in the hobby were started with locally collected isopods, even the large orange ones are not native to the US... they were originally called Spanish Orange which is an indication that they originated in the EU.. the small purple ones if I remember correctly originated from Costa Rica... The local species you referenced early in this thread can take up to 15 months for offspring produced from the collected animals to reach sexual maturity.. and that is before the need to serially culture them to reduce the risk of parasites and pathogens being carried into the frog's enclosures. 

If you look around on the web, there are other sources of isopods and are not that different from what you were charged. In fact some of the people here that sell the dwarf white isopods will guarantee live delivery of the dwarf white isopods that some vendors on the web will not guarantee to arrive alive. 

Now hopefully all of us can take a deep breath and go back to things as usual and welcome a new person to the hobby. 

Some comments

Ed


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## AReaHerps (Jul 27, 2012)

Again... I sincerely apologize. I attempted to explain that I didn't have a clear understanding of why they are expensive. That was the reason for my initial post. I still don't fully understand the reason for them being expensive but again due to ignorance and not seeing the end results of trying to culture them myself yet. I did not mean to discredit anything anyone has done to improve the hobby, in particular the efforts in culturing isopods. I would like to state again that yes... I am very new to the hobby but that's why I'm here to learn from you. There really isn't a need to get this upset over it though. If that's bitching then I'm not sure what else to say. So again I would like to make it clear that I do indeed apologize for the way I may have communicated my disappointment for what I received. It was not my intent to cause so much grief. Unfortunately it's events like these that stick out in people's minds. I hope I get to enjoy this forum and it's wisdom in the future without any more miscommunication. Thanks again for the responses. 

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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Recently there has been some fairly ridiculous behavior from some new comers to Dendroboard and an old troll. So people are a little bit on edge, whether they realize it or not, when a newbie to the board says something inflammatory, whether the newbie realizes it's inflammatory or not. There are people here who have known each other for many many years, and many of the members here interact on a daily basis and know each other very well. So, welcome to Dendroboard, do as much reading as possible, don't harp on this thread, and people will welcome you with open, fruit fly covered, arms 

If you have a question or doubts about something, it's better to post it in the form of a question, there are many people who will gladly explain it. Welcome again!


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## AReaHerps (Jul 27, 2012)

jacobi said:


> Recently there has been some fairly ridiculous behavior from some new comers to Dendroboard and an old troll. So people are a little bit on edge, whether they realize it or not, when a newbie to the board says something inflammatory, whether the newbie realizes it's inflammatory or not. There are people here who have known each other for many many years, and many of the members here interact on a daily basis and know each other very well. So, welcome to Dendroboard, do as much reading as possible, don't harp on this thread, and people will welcome you with open, fruit fly covered, arms
> 
> If you have a question or doubts about something, it's better to post it in the form of a question, there are many people who will gladly explain it. Welcome again!


Thanks for the response jacobi. I really did not mean to trash anyone or the bug supplier community as a whole. I'll be sure to be more careful in the way I say things and I'll do more research.


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