# auto viv mk3



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Hello
I am working on the next iteration of my auto viv as I want more people to have and enjoy it I have been working on my autoviv project for a couple of years now and would like some help if anyone is interested or has knowledge in any of the areas I will be making this opensource so anyone can make it or if I get the boards made and your not good at electronics I can sell them and put the money back into further development
I have a list of things I am going to try and include 
use cases 
vivariums, terrariums ,paludariums ,greenhouses ,scientific studies ,zoo's ,breeders,etc
webcam (hopefully)
wifi (must)
android application (should)
temp/humidity control (must):// so far bme280 is the best one I have used but looking into high-end ones so different ones can be used
lighting control (should):// PWM based day and night cycle 
storm simulation (could)
day/night cycle (could) 
plug and play led lighting (should):// min 6 controllable ports
smart home compatible (could)
4 mains relay (must) for attaching mistking fogger heater pump or whatever
pull data from regions to match temp and humidity of the correct environment for our frogs (could)
fan outputs (must)
timer options (should)
only high-quality parts to be used
so far I have done 99% of the work on this myself but could do with help even if I do a data bank of all frogs and their ideal environment to pull information from so the ideal setup would be at the push of a button I am currently working on the hardware again 🙃
if you like the sounds of it or have any ideas now is the time to say as it will dictate the direction I take with the project before I get boards made right now I am going to continue my research all sensible ideas will be taken into account 








Thanks for reading


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

I am thinking of doing it as a bit of a DIY solution using a raspberry pi but I still want the setup as simple as possible and the ability to have multiple tanks connected it should work something like this. It will allow me to keep the cost per unit down also think I will add one more relay so people can choose if they want to run LEDs or not. The board will have pluggable LDD drivers I have been using these since I set up my tank so I know they work well there are different sizes available giving more control on what LEDs you would like to use and how many there will also be an input for the led drivers power supply of your choice so it will allow a lot of flexibility. is there anything you would like to see implemented? This will all run on an internal network but will look at the security aspects of opening it up so it can be used externally if people are interested in the feature I have seen a lot of other attempts on this subject and it will take me some time as I have limited help if you would like to help you can pm me


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Sounds like a lot of things that can go wrong!


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Chris S said:


> Sounds like a lot of things that can go wrong!


It's fewer parts than I am running now that have been going for well over a year with no hiccups what part of it are you referring to the wireless side of things or the components? and I will be doing a lot of tests before I publish it. if you have a look at the reef-pi that uses a lot more parts and people trust it with very expensive setups (talk about all eggs in one basket ) but the raspberry pi is a powerhouse and is a good always-on computer (hence the trust) the and the eps is a powerhouse two both used in industrial applications for a reason if you are concerned with power-loss I could implement a battery backup but it would all depend on the isp and router you use as to how well it will run but should run on most if not all and hopefully i can get it to the point where you will just need to put in your wireless details (no external server where your details go all in house running on the pi) change a few timers and off it goes well that's the idea and i will be using it in my own tanks so you can be sure i want it to work well I love this hobbie and only want the best for my frogs hope this helps with any doubts


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

That is potentially one of the longest sentences I have ever read! Good luck though. I like to keep my setups as simple as possible. The level of automation and complexity vs a reef tank is not really comparable, from my experience, but if you like to tinker, all the power to you!


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

ok so I have done some tweaks added the extra relay and added a second I2c port changed the chipset slightly to allow for more flexibility and fixed my logo XD hope you like it : ) all relays have their own fuse as I want to make it as safe as possible when dealing with mains voltage mat still put an output for the PSU LEDs


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

progress has been made, However, I am having an issue changing a unit of measurement. As soon as I get that done I should be able to post more information on the home assistant and share info on how to set it up. It may be that I need to write up a custom card however, I want to avoid this as I want to make it as simple as possible for anyone to set up, and doing a custom card may be hard for someone with no experience and doing a full walkthrough is something I want to avoid XD. (humidity is low because its not in my tank )


----------



## SimonL (Aug 29, 2020)

Picture looks good but please try and use some full stops/periods occasionally. Kind of hard to follow without them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

SimonL said:


> Picture looks good but please try and use some full stops/periods occasionally. Kind of hard to follow without them
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


sorry, I have dyslexia, not very good at punctuation but I can send you my posts and you can add them if you like XD. will try harder for you  Grammarly for the spelling


----------



## SimonL (Aug 29, 2020)

Fair enough  Interested to see the final result!


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Ok progress update. I have simplified the layout as the frontend of homeassistant does not support what I want to do, but I don't think it will be too much of an issue. All it will mean is changing the numbers for how you will want your tank to run then uploading to an esp32 through a raspberry pi running home assistant (i will do a guide). It should also continue to work in the same manner if the wifi goes down and has a fallback address if it loses connection. I will be trying to get proper humidity control but for now, I don't think it is necessary and will work as a set it and leave it solution (what do you think a good starting humidity would be for most tanks I have it set between 80-95% rn, that means if it gets to 96% the fans will kick in and help dry it out then when it gets to 79 they will kick in there is hysteria in there so the fans are not on all the time








now I have a few questions for anyone interested in the project 
1) would you prefer the day and night cycle preset on the esp32 or would you like to set up your own automation 
2) are there any effects you would like I have a sunrise and sunset done would you like a storm to happen in your tank I can set something like that up 
3) I have the option of adding more to the board so if you have any ideas let me know and I will see what I can do,(effects extra lighting support and so on ). but no camera I am afraid that would have to be a separate unit
4) how was my grammar this time


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Update: code is mostly done on too the board redesign. I figured I would make a stack so that it will be a smaller package and you can just have modules so you can pick and choose parts that you want hope you like it so far not 100% decided on the colour may just go green


----------



## Crgwrd (May 2, 2021)

I'm fully on-board wit this, I'm a sucker for automation. The storm feature would be awesome if you could sync the lighting with the misters or drip wall. I have Current Plus LED lights and they have a lightning storm mode but I can't get it to sync with the water features


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Crgwrd said:


> I'm fully on-board wit this, I'm a sucker for automation. The storm feature would be awesome if you could sync the lighting with the misters or drip wall. I have Current Plus LED lights and they have a lightning storm mode but I can't get it to sync with the water features


I have done a test on the storm and it will sync quite well glad your interested  just trying to make it as easy to set up as possible


----------



## Crgwrd (May 2, 2021)

I don't know if your familiar with 'Biopods' but they were a Kickstarter project that tried and failed something similar to this. My advice would be to make all the components work in manual or auto. I have two BioPods and if the app fails to connect at any time, which is frequent, I lose all control of the unit.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Crgwrd said:


> I don't know if your familiar with 'Biopods' but they were a Kickstarter project that tried and failed something similar to this. My advice would be to make all the components work in manual or auto. I have two BioPods and if the app fails to connect at any time, which is frequent, I lose all control of the unit.


what's good about esphome if it loses connection all the data is on the board so as long as it has power it will work that's one reason it is taking me some time I am having to learn YAML its fairly easy when you get the hang of it I also wanted to have random cloud feature in there but that needs more work XD


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

so still working on it in my free time have another question for anyone.
cost wise how much to spend on a project is too much, the microclimate goes for around £100 and this will have more features but will cost a tad more as a raspberry pi will be required to run the main server I am trying to remove it but may not be able to as homeassistant is good for multiple devices. and you would only ever need one raspberry pi to as many of my boards as your router can handle XD.
I would do the boards separately so if you just wanted basic control (no LEDs ) you could do that or add it later it will be a DIY kit and I am trying to keep costs down as best I can.


----------



## eMCRay (Mar 24, 2020)

Hey - I have a rather detailed automation set-up (but pretty custom to my specific use case) that regulates one of my larger builds. 

One thing I might want to point out: you'd have the mist king to raise humidity, but what about lowering it / venting the viv with open / closable shutters? Should be relatively easy to program with a stepper motor / controller (worked for me using arduino). Especially important for folks that live in areas with lower humidity and still want to vent a viv properly, at least once or twice a day.

Also, for humidity probes, do you have any redundancy / checks built into the code? Could send things haywire if a sensor gets tripped the wrong way.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

eMCRay said:


> Hey - I have a rather detailed automation set-up (but pretty custom to my specific use case) that regulates one of my larger builds.
> 
> One thing I might want to point out: you'd have the mist king to raise humidity, but what about lowering it / venting the viv with open / closable shutters? Should be relatively easy to program with a stepper motor / controller (worked for me using arduino). Especially important for folks that live in areas with lower humidity and still want to vent a viv properly, at least once or twice a day.
> 
> Also, for humidity probes, do you have any redundancy / checks built into the code? Could send things haywire if a sensor gets tripped the wrong way.


Hello thanks for getting involved
The way i have been venting my vivs is with a vent hole and a fan inside the tank that pulls fresh air into the tank .I could add servo/stepper motor control but would bump the price up more as would requier more parts , you also vent the tanks when you open to feed the frogs.
I would not use a mistking to raise humidity as the mistking should just spray a couple of times in the day and if you use a mistking to raise humidity then you can get problems with oversaturation , I am using a humidifyer alongside my mistking as this will raise the humidity without overdoing it the main thing i have found on my tank is keeping a consistant humidity and the fans do that job well ,but i am open to ideas as i want it as user freaindly as possible.
As for redundency this is another reason not to use the mistking for humidity as if it triggers it will just flood a tank but a humidifyer wont and having it on a timer so it only come on for a set time is a good way to solve this and visa versa with the fans but am open to any suggestions.

If anyone wants to help just jump in my discord where I am working on it Join the OpenDesign Discord Server!


----------



## eMCRay (Mar 24, 2020)

scrumpydc said:


> Hello thanks for getting involved
> The way i have been venting my vivs is with a vent hole and a fan inside the tank that pulls fresh air into the tank .I could add servo/stepper motor control but would bump the price up more as would requier more parts , you also vent the tanks when you open to feed the frogs.
> I would not use a mistking to raise humidity as the mistking should just spray a couple of times in the day and if you use a mistking to raise humidity then you can get problems with oversaturation , I am using a humidifyer alongside my mistking as this will raise the humidity without overdoing it the main thing i have found on my tank is keeping a consistant humidity and the fans do that job well ,but i am open to ideas as i want it as user freaindly as possible.
> As for redundency this is another reason not to use the mistking for humidity as if it triggers it will just flood a tank but a humidifyer wont and having it on a timer so it only come on for a set time is a good way to solve this and visa versa with the fans but am open to any suggestions.
> ...



I was thinking / suggesting more along the lines of an optional add-on down the road that is compatible with one of the ports on your main board (or just another layer / shield that can be plugged into the existing ones). Then that controls the stepper / a set of pre-fabricated vents that can be installed into the viv. Personally (especially in larger vivs) I try to keep my fans running most of the time.

Good to know on mistking (I personally don't run it to maintain humidity, but imagine some people do given it's an option on their website).


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

eMCRay said:


> I was thinking / suggesting more along the lines of an optional add-on down the road that is compatible with one of the ports on your main board (or just another layer / shield that can be plugged into the existing ones). Then that controls the stepper / a set of pre-fabricated vents that can be installed into the viv. Personally (especially in larger vivs) I try to keep my fans running most of the time.
> 
> Good to know on mistking (I personally don't run it to maintain humidity, but imagine some people do given it's an option on their website).


Ok, I have added output for a servo as was cheap to add no extra parts except a pin header not sure how many to add though however, a stepper board may be harder to code in and make the board for I get what you mean good ideas, the mist king will maintain humidity but would not rely on it for automation purposes.
just thinking about how to add steppers for vents I did play with vents a while back was working on an iris type mechanism and I tried a flap-type one as well but wasn't happy with it may have to revisit it to see how small I can make the mechanism now my printer is tuned better, the issue I see is size a normal vent's are low profile, an electric one could end up being quite large but I will have a play with that


----------



## eMCRay (Mar 24, 2020)

scrumpydc said:


> Ok, I have added output for a servo as was cheap to add no extra parts except a pin header not sure how many to add though however, a stepper board may be harder to code in and make the board for I get what you mean good ideas, the mist king will maintain humidity but would not rely on it for automation purposes.
> just thinking about how to add steppers for vents I did play with vents a while back was working on an iris type mechanism and I tried a flap-type one as well but wasn't happy with it may have to revisit it to see how small I can make the mechanism now my printer is tuned better, the issue I see is size a normal vent's are low profile, an electric one could end up being quite large but I will have a play with that


I've got some automated vents for larger fans at the top of my viv (see my build threads for how it's set up). Those are effectively just panes on hinges since they are very large 25cm fans, which is why I use a more powerful stepper. I also have blinds / a curtain for one of my larger vivs since it's close to the window to regulate temps. 

I tried a couple different vent designs; easiest IMO is the shutter design, which can be operated by a servo with no issues. In terms of "automation", I'd recommend a few rectangular (for existing vents) and circular (can be easily drilled into glass / acrylic) "default" shapes. On average, I'd say most folks have 2-3 vents per viv.

I've milled a prototype a little while back that I may need to find / look for the plans - very simple concept, just a few shutters on hinges with a lever on one side that connects all the shutters (which is in turn hooked up to a servo).


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

eMCRay said:


> I've got some automated vents for larger fans at the top of my viv (see my build threads for how it's set up). Those are effectively just panes on hinges since they are very large 25cm fans, which is why I use a more powerful stepper. I also have blinds / a curtain for one of my larger vivs since it's close to the window to regulate temps.
> 
> I tried a couple different vent designs; easiest IMO is the shutter design, which can be operated by a servo with no issues. In terms of "automation", I'd recommend a few rectangular (for existing vents) and circular (can be easily drilled into glass / acrylic) "default" shapes. On average, I'd say most folks have 2-3 vents per viv.
> 
> I've milled a prototype a little while back that I may need to find / look for the plans - very simple concept, just a few shutters on hinges with a lever on one side that connects all the shutters (which is in turn hooked up to a servo).


ok nice I have added 2 servo outputs to the build, so the option is there as far as stepper motors I could do pinouts for them for now but I won't be able to test them getting boards prototyped is expensive and I am on a shoestring budget .
I want to make it as simple to set up as possible not just for display tanks but for all tanks that's the plan anyway will have a good think about it I am hoping to get boards ordered next month so I can start assembly and testing and coding lots and lots of coding XD


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

adding extra outputs now running out of pin headers lul may remove my name or make it smaller haven't decided yet


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

Jesus. This thread should come with a trigger warning. "_What could go wrong_?"

I'm *all* for people following their passions. But I would much rather not subject vertebrate animals to this experiment - not until it's had a _good long shakedown_. More than a weekend, say. If it can keep a variety of plants and inverts alive and healthy for a few months - call it the grow-in period - maybe I could feel more OK about it.

I guess I'm also curious / concerned - is there a "problem" this approach (not this one specific project, but this general approach) is supposed to solve? Or is it really all about a love of electronics, and a love of animals, and a desire to marry the two passions? Because if, say, the "problem" to be solved is lack of time to devote to the vivs, or a desire to cram more vivs into a finite amount of time, I would strongly suggest rethinking the marriage of passions. Keep 'em more separated.

OK. Old guy rantlet over.

good luck!


----------



## eMCRay (Mar 24, 2020)

jgragg said:


> Jesus. This thread should come with a trigger warning. "_What could go wrong_?"
> 
> I'm *all* for people following their passions. But I would much rather not subject vertebrate animals to this experiment - not until it's had a _good long shakedown_. More than a weekend, say. If it can keep a variety of plants and inverts alive and healthy for a few months - call it the grow-in period - maybe I could feel more OK about it.
> 
> ...


Yeah - I mean I think that's the expectation. For my viv automation (vents, misting, lights, fans, curtains, etc.) I demo'd it for 6+ months before installing (COVID certainly helped) and I think the plan here is to also add additional monitoring capabilities.

Don't think it's a replacement for good old fashioned observation, just a step further than the mist king timer most folks use.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

jgragg said:


> Jesus. This thread should come with a trigger warning. "_What could go wrong_?"
> 
> I'm *all* for people following their passions. But I would much rather not subject vertebrate animals to this experiment - not until it's had a _good long shakedown_. More than a weekend, say. If it can keep a variety of plants and inverts alive and healthy for a few months - call it the grow-in period - maybe I could feel more OK about it.
> 
> ...


Just wow nice rant no need for it though.

I have had my auto Viv MK2 running for a long time I love my frogs and want to give them the best chance at survival and a healthy life I am solving human error as I may forget to mist my frogs 2 times a day or not be able to check the parameters all the time can you do that ,good for you .
Yes things could go wrong that's why I test before I put animals in harm's way ,i have not been on this for one weekend I have been working on this for 3+ years hence mk3 and I did not put my animals in a tank untill the tank was running to a very high standered .
Can you say your tank matches the frogs natural habitat to the best of your abilities that is what I want to achieve with this, a perfect habitat for amazing creatures what's wrong with that .
Ps , do you not use electronics in your tanks all natural lighting hand pump sprayer if you do all the power to you just don't follow this if you feel that strongly about it nothing wrong with mixing passions 


Ok rubuttle over 
All the best to you 


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> Just wow nice rant no need for it though.


Well, I stated my "need" for it:


> is there a "problem" this approach (not this one specific project, but this general approach) is supposed to solve?


And I think this is your response:


> Can you say your tank matches the frogs natural habitat to the best of your abilities that is what I want to achieve with this, a perfect habitat for amazing creatures what's wrong with that .


Well, I'm doing snakes not frogs but I agree with your "why?" _in principle_. It's in the details of your "how?" that I think we are not yet communicating. Let me try again.

In attempting to "match temp and humidity controls" via automation a person is at real risk of imposing a lack of variability (or excessive "stability") and - especially in a smaller viv - a lack of gradients. You personally - with this specific project - may be "crushing it". But - there may well be beginners here reading this, who are attracted to your approach but who do not understand the utility of gradients and - within controlled sideboards - of variability in a confined environment.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

jgragg said:


> Well, I stated my "need" for it:
> 
> 
> And I think this is your response:
> ...


right ok, I think I follow,

well, I don't know if you have followed my project from mk1 but if not I will do a rundown of what my goal is so I can cover some of your points if it helps put your mind at ease.

when you say "match temp and humidity " and "lack of gradients " this is one thing I have been working on in my project I understand the need for cycles in nature "summer-winter dry seasons wet seasons ect " my end goal is to have the environment to my finest possible abilities mimic the area in which the specific species comes from, ie the *Dendrobates leucomelas* from the northern part of the continent of South America.
I would like someone to be able to tell my controller that this is what they have and my controller to go ok, so at this time on this day it was 85% humid and it adjusts accordingly but with safe zone limits so if there is an unnaturally hot day it won't cook the frogs same with humidity don't want them to dry out by doing this it should introduce natural variability. hopefully, I can integrate a weather API but progress is slow. I have been solo researching designing and working on this in most of my spare time along with watching and enjoying my frogs and tadpoles and I know it can be done with time and research.
so next would be "beginners" reading this and yes there could be and I would say to that if there are great a hobby you can enjoy with other people is great and if my project helps protect their pets by taking human error out of the equation then that's a win don't you think. where someone may neglect the little things a computer does not and this little computer can have a battery backup (working on that two )

so why not help by posting about things to improve or work on rather than just getting "triggered" ask a question I am more than happy to take suggestions from an amazing community.
I will not be rushing this and it will not be posted until I am happy with it and all the code is just right. but to get to that point I need to start so I want the boards so I can work on the next step the biggest step coding XD


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Some interesting concerns voiced here, though likely none of them are worth anyone getting upset over (not implying that anyone is, though this is edging into zoomed-out-self-conception-big-picture territory, which is always hard to navigate).

Some friendly (truly, this is just light conversation) thoughts:

On taking human error out of the equation: The only flooding event I ever had in vivs was with automated misting -- human error in timer programming, but human error that would not have been possible without automation, and was amplified many times over by it. 

I do know that enclosures for which automation is a necessity (reef tanks; there is no returning to the 'sunning your corals in the backyard' world of Robert P.L. Straughan) can be crashed by automation (a brownout wrecked the firmware on one of my Neptune Apex controllers to the point that it didn't even obey the fallback commands -- most outlets stuck 'on', so 90s F + topoff flood + skimmer overflow). It is unlikely that human error could cause both the heat and ATO to simultaneously stick on while I was not at home.

On "Can you say your tank matches the frogs natural habitat to the best of your abilities": Nope. No way I'd allow that. My animals would die. RIght now in Caroni, Bolivar, Venzuela it is 92F with 50% humidity, according to WeatherUnderground. 

You mention "safe zone limits." My house temps, along with house ambient humidity moderated by a partially covered vivarium, are those limits. No need for automation other than my home thermostat, which has never -- in five decades -- failed, and if it did home temps are quite slow to get radically out of range (consider how fast a reef tank gets too hot when a heater sticks on).

I support you in your endeavor, @scrumpydc , and I am beyond impressed by the apparent skill involved in what you're doing. Truly, quite amazing. There are quite a few keepers who would be interested in using such technology, too. My vivs are pretty solid just running on as much basic physics as I can get by with, though.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Some interesting concerns voiced here, though likely none of them are worth anyone getting upset over (not implying that anyone is, though this is edging into zoomed-out-self-conception-big-picture territory, which is always hard to navigate).
> 
> Some friendly (truly, this is just light conversation) thoughts:
> 
> ...


Ok it's fine to have an opinion,
but to just have a rant did annoy me a little (felt like an attack on what I am spending a lot of time on trying to perfect and get issues ironed out even if it was not meant that way) it does not contribute to improvements make a suggestion or ask a question or help is all I will say if you don't like automation that's cool with me don't get involved just to rant it is not productive  open a new thread to rant i mean if it makes you angry dont click on the post if you have a concern please *ask *me about it, it helps get me thinking new ways to tackle problems


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> so why not help by posting about things to improve or work on rather than just getting "triggered"


I'm on here quite a bit. I'm going to take a data-free guess and hazard that 90-95% of my submissions exclusively pertain to improvements or best practices or just supportive advice, and that in the remaining 5-10% I do try to take care to include such elements.

Much like Socratic Monologue has tried to communicate to you - my *only* real herp room catastrophes - animal death, and/or property damage - were enabled by automation. Enabled, as in "they *would not* have happened if I hadn't been relying on automation". _They simply would not have happened._

So I have had my "first kiss" love affair with automation, and like most such things it ended. Not in murder or suicide or madness or rage, but in (I hope) growth and wisdom. *Of course* I use some automation. But I've got my damned eyes open about it, not just my mind, let me tell you. Look man, I'm not here to piss on each other. When I ask and say something like this, *it's not rhetorical:*



> I guess I'm also curious / concerned - is there a "problem" this approach (not this one specific project, but this general approach) is supposed to solve? Or is it really all about a love of electronics, and a love of animals, and a desire to marry the two passions? Because if, say, the "problem" to be solved is lack of time to devote to the vivs, or a desire to cram more vivs into a finite amount of time, I would strongly suggest rethinking the marriage of passions.


Note also please that I did try to take care to not "trigger" or appear to be personally attacking you, by carefully including such elements as (the parenthetical statement) in the quote above. You may have only the one viv or just a couple, and you may have all the time in the world to devote to your hobbies. But I strongly suspect that there are readers here who would be attracted to automation for the exact (and pretty wrong - pretty unethical) reasons I stated. So when I suggest - to anyone reading, not pointedly at you - thinking about what you're / they're trying to achieve and why, I really mean it most sincerely.



> felt like an attack on what I am spending a lot of time on trying to perfect and get issues ironed out even if it was not meant that way


It was certainly not meant that way. I am sorry for contributing to your feeling that way. I really am here for the animals (first mine, and then others') and the animals' welfare, and not to argue pointlessly and gracelessly with strangers from around the world. On the other hand, _argument with purpose and politesse_ is how knowledge is shared, and progress is made in any institution, ours included. So I suggest both a thicker skin and a continued willingness to share, to ask, and to question.

Peace and respect.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Onto another note got the first parts for testing and I am already going to throw them in the bin not happy with them the parts had sanded off Id so not going to risk it.
time to find another method ,also should I continue to share what I am doing as the post has got a bit well Idk.
maby just show the finished result , could be a while before I post again as I want to fully dive into this rabbit hole again if you want to follow just hop on my discord as I will be posting there more as and when parts Arrive and things get worked on also if you have real suggestions or ideas plz post them 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## sharambil (Dec 28, 2020)

I think that a useful application of something like this would be vivarium monitoring. It would be nice to have an idea of what the air parameters are like and receive notifications or alerts if it goes outside of a specific threshold.

I'm also a reefkeeper, and I've noticed that the automation is not really necessary to have good results in reef keeping. However, it's extremely useful for detecting equipment failures (heater's sticking on) or remotely controlling equipment to prevent harm to the fish and corals.

In a vivarium setting, an example could be that the humidity/saturation readout is really high. You could simply shut off the outlet for the mister to prevent any additional watering to occur.

Maybe you could also implement a security camera or something that has enough resolution for you to be able to see condensation and the overall state of the vivarium.


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> it's extremely useful for detecting equipment failures (heater's sticking on)


This is a real thing. The worst acute herp-room disasters I've known of were caused by runaway space heaters. Twice now I've known of loss of dozens of animals (which happened to be valuable, but that's almost irrelevant) in a room that failed automation caused to overheat. Once I've known of a house fire. So that's three bad outcomes that I personally know of. Not saw on the news, or read / heard about, but I knew the guy (the three different guys....) and was told of the incident by the actual "victim". Major, major, major bummers.

No matter if you're super-into automation or not, some means of remotely monitoring room temp, and hopefully killing the heat sources, is a solid move.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

most of the time when the problems happen it is someone who has no idea how to set things up or what to do the "horror stories" you go on about are so few and far between, you rarely hear about it when things work but it goes everywhere when bad things happen hence you notice, a simple timer is not automation in my eyes it does one task no different than turning lights off and on.

Turning the heater off by the plug is exactly what I will be doing using relays there are two I2C ports for 2 sensors if needed (room and tank if you like ) and automation should not be attempted without proper testing and without following the instructions carefully and maintenance @jgragg you had a bad experience because you are inexperienced with automation (Human error) the thing about good automation is you should not hear about it it should be as if it was never there show me the automation storeys where it was due to equipment and not human setup that caused the problem so I know what components to avoid.

bet yes good quality parts well thought out is what I am going for as you can tell as soon as chips came I was not happy just by looking at them I knew they were not for my hoppers XD Bin fodder it will take as long as it needs to take there may even be new tech out I could use lol, I could have set a simple one up in 5 minutes I have running working code that just works no failures since I set it up but that's not what I am about.

as for security cam, I was thinking about it but I cannot get a resolution I am happy with and it was a low priority in my tank I have the mistking set to come on a couple of times a day I will never control humidity with a mistking never would be silly to do so that is why flooding happens a safer alternative is a humidifier running in conjunction with a timed mistking (cut off at source ) if humidity is too high then a fan or vent should be the controlling factor that way you do not get large swings


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> when bad things happen hence you notice


I should hope so...I certainly try to. Either one can learn from others, or they cannot, and must learn everything first-hand. That's rough when the consequences are death or injury.



> show me the automation storeys where it was due to equipment and not human setup that caused the problem so I know what components to avoid.


Honestly I suspect most horror stories are a combination of both. You might get away with single fuckup, even two or three, but a compounded series of fuckups - even over years or decades - will eventually extract payment.

I think a contributing issue with the house fire was excessive circuit loading, the mitigation of which failed due to a bad breaker or electrical panel. It was an older home (older than the aluminum wiring / aluminum bas bars / Zinsco panels era, though). _Who knows_ what all was going on inside those walls. Maybe rodents had chewed away some insulation from the wires, or they were the ancient, "mummy's tomb" cloth-wrapped wires. That's some scary shit right there.

(Aside - residential fires are statistically quite common still (annually, about 0.25% of US housing units). Nothing like in the old candles & oil lamps days but still it's rather shockingly common. Live long enough and you WILL see one on your block or just around the corner.)

I think both the overheated herp rooms were caused by failed integral thermostats / rheostats in the (cheap, heating-element driven) space heaters, and were not caught by a backup, kill-switch thermostat. Personally I like a simple oil filled radiant space heater, not anything with a glowing hot element and a fan. Yikes. I also use a backup "kill it" thermostat set a few degrees above the desired ambient temp.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

That's rough when the consequences are death or injury.

very true
may help if i can get some ideas from you of what you would like me to test I am going to build a tank for testing (no animals ) approx 15 gallons (plants substrate ect) was going to produce faliures in it ie exsessive heat water basicly a tourcher test for my equipment and i want it to be as ruthless as possible so any ideas on that would be good


----------



## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

I don't, sorry - not specifically. You know your stuff way better than I do, and I take the opposite approach by using pretty much a bare minimum of automation. Just enough to help me provision life support, not trying to build in enough to permit any sort of "set it and forget it" mentality to creep in. My systems have worked for me for a long, long time, and allow me regular out-of-town trips for up to three weeks at a time. I haven't lost an animal in a long time, so I'm pretty content with my way for me.

Some context may help. People get on here and a lot of them seem to let enthusiasm carry them away. Every day it's someone with just the most basic questions, it's clear that reading for comprehension is not happening. Maybe they're mostly looking at pictures and getting all excited? Hard to say, hard to say. My concern is with a "ready, fire, aim" approach combined with "a bigger magazine" or "bigger calibre" that automation can potentially offer. That's what I was thinking about when I said "_what could go wrong_" in my first, excessively abrasive reply here with you. I get the impression, from the questions raised day in and day out, there are people who think technology can replace knowledge and critical thinking and just plain old _paying fucking attention_. You know? So just to repeat - it's not that I think *you* can't pull it off, it's that I think what you're doing is probably _pretty hard to pull of_f. And it looks kind of sexy, sort of like a waterfall in a viv or something, and I worry that "impressionable youth" (ha ha ha) could be susceptible to overestimating their knowledge, skills, and abilities. In this case as in others we see here. Sigh. Ha ha ha.

But in general - I'd suggest you consider anything can could cause animal death or property damage. Whether it be via too much or too little of something. Too hot, too wet, too dry, too cold - whatever can go wrong in a lethal or damaging way, I would test those components, and their controllers, and any little in-between bits (solders, crimps, harnesses, whatever) pretty hard.

cheers mate


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

well update on the project
I have got a parts list now, just got to save up some cash so I can get the prototype run made going to make 5 of each board so 15 in total wont get into cost as prototyping is costly will have to do some extra work to pay for it XD.
so in the meantime, I will work on getting the test rig set up for those interested here are the current boards.
the relay board








the LDD driver board








and the Brains








will update as progress continues


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Boards are in just need to get the components

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Woop they are looking nice
















Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Well it took some time to get the parts with the chip shortage but got the main parts all soldered now need to get to coding oof









Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Little update for anyone interested. been trying to add a sound board and clean up things, the chip shortage has been kicking my butt as parts I have been ordering have been slow to arrive parts come and there fakes and other stuff but I am pressing on been trying to add sound board so if people want they can have rainforest sounds when the mister goes of still waiting on my ldd drivers to test the day and night cycles and the season cycles ect but I am still working on it in my spare time have changed the layout of the boards and started working on a case to put it all in


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

update I am almost ready to start testing for everything boards are working as they should including sound board .

The layout through home assistant is fully adjustable everything is controllable temps humidity lighting fans sensors I am thinking of making an alternative without the LDD drivers for custom lighting so if someone wants to use just an on of light they can it will have a smaller case still with 5 relays 2 fans 2 temp/humidity sensors 2 water level sensors. 
I next need to do a write up on how to set one up finalize some of the coding and then I will be testing .

I have got a new tank that I need to set up just for this (without frogs in till fully tested) not sure how long to test for another issue I have is notifications , I would like peoples opinion on this how would you like to receive notifications (issues like mister reservoir needs refiling ect ) will a sound alert be enough ? or would you prefer other means


----------



## eMCRay (Mar 24, 2020)

I do think a notification like a text or imessage (or a display with status / notifications) would be helpful. Sound alerts are easy to miss. There are a couple datalogging apps you could also use.

Btw, any thoughts on whether one of the ports could be used to automatically refill the reservoir? I know some people hook Mistking up directly to their RO system so don't even have a reservoir. The obvious thing to add here would be a humidity / liquid sensor that shuts off the water in case of a leak.


----------



## Rocktaki (Apr 4, 2018)

Excited to see this one, will be watching with great interest. I also second the text or imessage.


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

eMCRay said:


> I do think a notification like a text or imessage (or a display with status / notifications) would be helpful. Sound alerts are easy to miss. There are a couple datalogging apps you could also use.
> 
> Btw, any thoughts on whether one of the ports could be used to automatically refill the reservoir? I know some people hook Mistking up directly to their RO system so don't even have a reservoir. The obvious thing to add here would be a humidity / liquid sensor that shuts off the water in case of a leak.


"I think messages could be done through home Assistant but that will have to be set up by the user I think through pushover i will have a more indepth look at this while waiting for funds to get the bits I need to test "

"yes you could with the water level sensors i have added to the board when it gets low you could trigger one of the spare relays to open a valve or something to fill it up for X amount of time depending on the size of the reservoir"


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

so i did a little playing around and it is possible to do a push notification to your mobile device with home assistant but you have to have the app running on your phone as well and have the notifications available but did not take long to set up


----------



## Rocktaki (Apr 4, 2018)

Update?


----------



## scrumpydc (Mar 9, 2015)

Rocktaki said:


> Update?


Getting there had some small redesigns on the 4th revision finding parts that stay in stock has been a real pain but getting closer every day to a board I am happy with 
I have shrunk the board and having breakout ports for led lighting only if people want to use it so relays are on the board now more of an all in one unit sorry not been posting updates funds are tight and just trying to get the board right where I am going to be happy and confident in it has been a pain (always one part that dose not seem to play ball ).
I have been desiding wether to update the esp to the latest version 
The biggest hurdle is the software that it is going to be running as I am not great at coding its been tricky but I have teamed up with another group of people who are hopefully going to be helping with that side of things 

I should have the next set of boards ordered in the new year but so far tests have been positive sensors working fans working relays working soundboard working LED-lighting working just got to get it all togeather


----------

