# Coco Fiber Background Submerged in Water



## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Hello Everyone!
I want to make a Paludarium-style tank for a pair of African Dwarf Frogs.
This is a first for BOTH, as I am only experienced in fish-keeping.

I have a brick of Coco Fiber that I need to expand, is it best to boil it on the stove and then dry it in the oven (for how long and at what temp?)

Also, I plan on applying this to the background of the tank (Great Stuff), most of which will be submerged in water.

I am wondering if Coco is ok to be fully submerged? 
Or will it rot?

The people that have advised me, do not seem to know, so I thought to come here and ask. It seemed more appropriate.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!
yoko


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Has no one ever tried this?

No one seems to know.

Is it just a bad idea?

Will the coco fiber ROT or deteriorate if suspended underwater for long periods of time?

Would it be safer to silicone "Exo Terra Riverbed Sand" to the GS???

Please help


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## chrism (Apr 11, 2007)

For the block, just throw it in a bucket, and poor water on top- come back in half an hr and all done! As for drying, I did mine in an airing cupboard.

Dunno bout other q's...


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks, *chrism*

Up for an answer on this stuff rotting my water...


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

dude, read the dirctions, you have to submerge it in water, the coco brick will then soak up all the water and become soft. I usually use a 5 gallon bucket with about 6 inches of water in the bottom.


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## Fishman (Jan 16, 2007)

Any organic matter, coco husk included, will break down over time in water. You will also get a fair amount of tannins from the coco fiber leaching into the water (turns the water a tea color of brown). This isn't really a big problem unless you don't like brown water.


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

PDFanatic said:


> dude, read the dirctions, you have to submerge it in water, the coco brick will then soak up all the water and become soft. I usually use a 5 gallon bucket with about 6 inches of water in the bottom.


DUDE- I DID READ THE DIRECTIONS.

I was asking if it was better TO BOIL IT instead of just soaking it in the bucket, to get the tannins out (think driftwood).

Don't be rude, I was only asking a simple question, I thought that was allowed here???

I guess I didn't phrase my question correctly, because everyone seems to think I don't know how to expand a freakin brick of coco--- :roll: 

*Fishman*, thank you, that was more the response I was expecting. Just wanted to confirmation from someone other than myself.

Thank you


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah questions are allowed but if you go back and read a little you will see the questions have been asked hundreds of times and there are a ton of threads on that


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

I know how to expand a brick.

I wanted to know if it rots being submerged in water for long periods of time. 

If the question has been answered hundreds of times, then that is a shame I have not found even one.

I googled plenty of times and found nothing, which is why I even asked.

Trust me, I would rather research and find an answer before asking a question.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I guess I will just layer the Coco Fiber with epoxy to seal it.


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## abarrera2 (Sep 13, 2006)

I always stop the background a few inches above the water line. Then, make the coco bedding soil come up from the false bottom to the bottom of the background so there is no gap for frogs to hide and plenty room for water under the false bottom. I think in your case you could do the same and not have to worry about the coco rotting or tannins leaking from coco.

Antonio


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Hi Antonio,
Well, I wanted the tank to look like a river, so I wanted the coco texture underwater.
Maybe I will put coco, but stop it at the water line and then just paint the bottom portion that will be in the water with a brown spray paint.
That way it is still brown underwater?

Back to the drawing board!  

Thank you!


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## Thinair (Aug 27, 2005)

Hi Yoko,

Yes, the coco/silicone concoction can be underwater. The silicone does a really good job of resisting water - that's what it's for...  
Whatever is adhering to the silicone will eventually wear/degrade away, especially if it is exposed to running water. Gravel or sand would certainly last longer, but cocofiber/peat will do fine.

--Carlos


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Hi Carlos,

Oh, hehe I know the silicone will be fine underwater  I got 2 kinds to be safe. A "Black Silicone Sealant for Ponds" and the Clear G&E 100% Silicone w/Rubber.

I have never used Great Stuff, so I am not sure about the color OR texture, but I hear it is white and it is ver light...?

I actually want to mix it with horticultural grade sand and fine sand for turtles to get a more natural look and for some earth colors and added texture. 

I was planning on mixing this all together and then, I guess, shaping it with my hands?

How does that sound? I think I will just try that...

Thank you for your advice!
yoko


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

I am actually doing a search on it right now,but if anyone online can tell me where to get *brown silicone*, I would really appreciate it. I managed to find black and clear, but having a difficult time finding (brown) locally..

Thank you


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## fleenor1 (Feb 18, 2005)

You can find it at Home Depot in the paint section.
The one most people use is GE brand Silicone II. It is 100% Silicone sealant and the tube is marked for doors and windows. Do not get anything for kitchen and bath. 
I know it comes in brown and it also comes in black and bronze.


Hope that helps you out.
Later,
Brad


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## Squash713 (Feb 18, 2007)

Yes, Home Depot and Lowes stores have the brown stuff. 

Just to clarify: you're mixing the silicone, coco, and sand together, and applying to pre-applied/set GreatStuff. not mixing the GS in with everything, rght? Couldn't quite tell from the way you worded it. (Mixing everything together wouldn't give you proper GS expansion, and would be VERY difficult to work with.)


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Hi Brad, thank you for replying. I've seen bronze, but no black or brown at the Home Depot here.. maybe there is no real demand for it, so they don't stock it...? I've tried to search online, but only seem to come up with brown nipples (baby bottles) :roll: :lol: 

I guess I will keep looking...  

Ben!
Actually, I was going to mix all of it together and then shape it  
Good thing I didn't do it yet!

The idea of mixing everything, I got from here:
http://www.acquariforum.com/cgi-bin/mag ... Rujp&tmpl=

This guy is actually from Italy, so he obviously wasn't using Great Stuff, but another brand expansion foam, but he was able to mix the foam and several colors of sand, along with twigs and leaves and even small rocks that he found, and then shaped his background!!





































He let it dry and then applied a final coat of epoxy (he calls it "pastivel") and everything was waterproof and ready to go.

I know he wasn't using GS, but that is where I got the idea... maybe I can try a small portion and let you know how it goes?

:?: 

Thank you all for the advice!!!


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## Squash713 (Feb 18, 2007)

Interesting pics--that's definitely a different texture, and makes stylistic sense for an underwater portion of a viv.

If you do experiment with it, I'd be curious to see how it goes. Seems like it'd be too dense/heavy, but with a thin enough layer it might provide some additional design opportunities. (I noticed he used some extra styrofoam pieces to add some depth.) Depending on how much silicone you used in the mix, I'd also be concerned about it pulling away from the back wall due to the weight.

I'm inclined to think you'd be happier with first spraying and drying GreatStuff, then carving it, and then applying a coco/silicone/sand/stick mixture, at least for the above-water section. (Or going the traditional route and just emedding your materials into a thick layer of silicone that's been spread on cured/carved GreatStuff.)

Best of luck with whichever route you choose!


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## yoko (Apr 12, 2007)

Hey Ben!  

Well, I was debating on whether or not I want the background permanently stuck to my tank (I have commitment issues :lol: )

The only idea I could come up with is, applying the GS onto a piece of eggcrate cut to fit against the back glass of the tank. (Eggcrate- for reinforcement) and to anchor it to the glass, instead of silicone, use suction cups with hooks... :arrow: :shock: :?: :idea: :!: 

I am going to go ahead and try both methods, since this is my first time doing anything like this.... I'll keep you posted. Again, thank you for checking out the Thread and taking the time to advise, I really appreciate it!!  8) 

yoko


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