# How often should I dust with vitamin a?



## BarthVader (Jun 5, 2009)

2 of my dart frogs toes stuck together, and after reading through some old threads I believe it's the result of a vitamin a deficiency. I read that I can grind up vitamin a pills and dust fruit flies with that. My question is how often should I use the vitamin a dust, and should I mix it with the calcium dust I'm already using, or should I alternate?

Thanks for your help!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I'd be very careful doing that...in fact I personally wouldn't. Seems like an easy way to overdose a frog on vit A. Would probably be safer to just supplement the frogs every day for a week or 2 with the standard herptivite/rep-cal d3 combo...or maybe try the new repashy Calcium Plus ICB. Might consult dr. frye or another herp vet before proceeding with anything more extreme then that. Is there a chance you're using out dated supplements?... or have you not been supplementing regularly at all? At least once a week is advisable.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

BarthVader said:


> 2 of my dart frogs toes stuck together, and after reading through some old threads I believe it's the result of a vitamin a deficiency. I read that I can grind up vitamin a pills and dust fruit flies with that. My question is how often should I use the vitamin a dust, and should I mix it with the calcium dust I'm already using, or should I alternate?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


 
Where did you get the information that a deficiency in vitamin A is what caused the toes to stick together? I would be interested in reading it... 

There are a number of potential causes for deformation of feet.. broken bones, dislocations, regrowth after damage removed the toes, calcium insufficiency (although I would expect to see more than just a couple of toes affected), muscle and tendon damage... 

Ed


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## BarthVader (Jun 5, 2009)

I did a search for posts that contained the words "toes stuck together" and came across a post where people were talking about their frogs that had that problem, and how it was either a vit a deficiency, or calcium. 

I thought that using ground up vitamin a could lead to overdose too, so I might check out the other dusts. I use the calcium dust regularly, although there was a period of time where I wasn't dusting as often as I should have, so I don't know if it would be calcium or not. The toes being stuck together is a recent thing too, I never noticed it before until a couple days after I added some new plants to the vivarium.

Also, I know this is a noob question, but just how often should I be dusting with the calcium powder? I had been doing it about twice a week, but I've read conflicting things. I've been doing it every feeding for the past couple weeks.


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## vugger#1 (Jul 20, 2009)

Personaly I would use Repashy Calcium Plus ICB and dust every day.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The reason I was curious as to where you got the information is that it has been speculated on occasion but there is no proof that it is an issue unlike the other examples I provided. 

Hypovitaminosis of A is an issue and most supplements supply beta carotene which on anecodotal evidence (and in some species documented evidence) an insufficient source of vitamin A for the frogs. Dr. Wright (Author of Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry) recommends dusting with a source of retinly palminatate or retinoic acid for a source of vitamin A. This is found in some supplements on the market but if there is a problem with vitamin A, these often are not sufficient to make up the deficit, which is when dusting with a human grade source of vitamin A can be used. Human grade sources of A in frogs showing issues (poor reproductive success with embryos swelling or producing SLS affected tadpoles) can be as frequent as once a week to once a month with good resolution of the problems without any signs of hypervitaminosis of A at this time (a good bit of the concern over hypervitamin A was due to an scare from back in the very early 1990s). 

Dusting frequency and other products has been covered frequently on the boards 

some examples 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fo...-do-you-dust-your-frogs-food-supplements.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fo...-supplementation-dusting-powder-rotation.html


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

ya you should probably be dusting with vit powder also, not just calcium. I don't believe in doing it every day, unless in small doses of just a few dusted flies each day, but consistent supplementation will help you avoid health issue.


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## BarthVader (Jun 5, 2009)

I really appreciate all the help. I just ordered the repashy calcium plus ICB from Josh's frogs and will start using that as soon as I get it. I am starting to think that my calcium supplement is too old as well. It says it expires april 2012, but I've had it for a while. 

My frog is very active, but it's legs seem to be skinny, in addition to the stuck together fingers. It's always been so active and alert the whole time I've had it that I never thought the skinny legs were a problem, but after doing a lot of research on these forums I think its legs are skinnier than they should be. It's belly is nice and round, and it has a healthy appetite. I'm gonna do a search on the forums and see if this is a sign of vitamin deficiencies as well.


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## BarthVader (Jun 5, 2009)

Ed said:


> Where did you get the information that a deficiency in vitamin A is what caused the toes to stick together? I would be interested in reading it...
> 
> There are a number of potential causes for deformation of feet.. broken bones, dislocations, regrowth after damage removed the toes, calcium insufficiency (although I would expect to see more than just a couple of toes affected), muscle and tendon damage...
> 
> Ed


Actually, it's two fingers on each had that are stuck together, giving it the appearance of only having 3 fingers on each hand until you look really closely.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

BarthVader said:


> I am starting to think that my calcium supplement is too old as well. It says it expires april 2012, but I've had it for a while.


Supps should be discarded six months after opening them regardless of whether the expiration date says they're still good.

FWIW, I use Repashy Calcium plus ICB twice a week (I only feed the frogs ff's twice a week) and use Repcal with D3 maybe once or twice a month.


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

I dust at every feeding with a rotating variety of supplements. Once per month I use Dry A vitamin capsules. I just open a couple of capsules. I place the powder in a mortar/pestle and grind it a bit finer, then dust my flies.

The first of each month, vit A for the frogs and heartworm meds for the dogs...



It's worked well for me,
Deb


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

BarthVader said:


> My frog is very active, but it's legs seem to be skinny, in addition to the stuck together fingers. It's always been so active and alert the whole time I've had it that I never thought the skinny legs were a problem, but after doing a lot of research on these forums I think its legs are skinnier than they should be.


 
Actually this sounds like a very minor case of spindly leg syndrome, this variation is why in the early days of dendrobatid keeping, it was called matchstick leg syndrome in Europe. It cannot be cured in this frog, the condition is permanent. 
If you join TWI, there is an article on the history of SLS in the hobby in one of thier issues of Leaf Litter (Home | Tree Walkers International), if you don't want to join but just want to purchase a copy of the magazine you can order one here, Magazine Leaf Litter | Issue Vol 3, Issue 2 | MagCloud

Ed


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## BarthVader (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for all the help, everyone! I got my supplements, and have increased feedings as I think this is part of the problem.

I inspected the frog under better lighting today, and it appears that the toes have become unstuck on one of the hands. 2 fingers are still stuck on the left hand, but the other hands are all unstuck. (I looked at it yesterday and it looked like some fingers were stuck on the hind legs, but they weren't.) Maybe they were never stuck to begin with on the one hand, or were heading that way, but I'm so glad they're not stuck anymore. I was feeling like a terrible frog mom.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I've had Azureus with fused toes....and heard of quite a few people with very good breeders that had them. No problem.

I would NOT try to physically seperate or cut them. 

Can you post a pic of the frog so we can see the leg size?


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

You keep mentioning calcium dust but not a multivitamin, is the calcium the only thing you were dusting with? That's most likely your issue right there, as Dave mentioned you should be dusting with a multivitamin too.

Calc + ICB will likely take care of it, assuming that's the issue. The Repcal/Herptivite combo (comes in two separate containers, not to be mixed into one storage container) is also a good solution, a lot of us cycle between repcal/herptivite and Calc + ICB every few days or so... if your budget allows it (usually under $15 for both online or at herp shows), it wouldn't hurt to grab some next time you're making an order somewhere.


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## BarthVader (Jun 5, 2009)

Yup, I had only been using a calcium dust, and I didn't know about replacing it after 6 months and had been using it way past that point.

I just bought some of the Calcium plus ICP, and also got the Repcal multivitamin dust and have started alternating those with feedings.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Everyone is mentioning vitamin A supplementing but doesn't the multivitamin contain Vit A??? (I'm at work, so I can't look right now)


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## BarthVader (Jun 5, 2009)

The repcal multivite doesn't, but the repashy calcium plus ICB does.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Well then I guess when its time to get new supplements ill b getting the repashy and herp multi instead of the repcal calcium!


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