# Could Epomis prey on these?



## Groundhog

So I posted this in the "Ridiculous question" thread, and it was deemed inappropriate 

This is a three-parter, about the predatory beetle Epomis, a carnivorous beetle that has evolved to lure frogs. It is considered the only example of predator prey role-reversal. Both the adults and larva prey on amphibians:

Epomis Beetle Attacks Toad - YouTube

Frog versus Epomis beetle larva 2 - YouTube

1) Ceratophrys or Pyxicephalus vs. Epomis beetle or larva; Frog 4X the weight of the beetle.

2) Aneides lugubris vs. Epomis; same parameters:

http://www.californiaherps.com/salam...thmevj3102.jpg


3) Be honest--would you want to see it?

Who would win (NOT who you'd want to win)? As for me--and I'm not just saying this because I truly believe that Epomis is an evolutionary obscenity (vertebrates have an existential right to eat insects)--I think the beetle gets jacked by anything with strong jaws and teeth (I should make this a separate thread, with a poll.)

Seriously, I frame the question in view of the fact that Epomis did not evolve to prey on amphibians than could and would bite back (Could it?)

Alas, this section doesn't have polls...

...Then again, if I had useful skills, this could/should/would be a Syfy movie...


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## Groundhog

I'll start: While I'd bet on any of the amphibians, I actually think the salamander has the best chance--more flexible, sharper teeth.

I think the interesting (albeit hypothetical) evolutionary question is still this: Could this ability evolve in an environment with different amphibians? Specifically, amphibians that rely on their ability to cause mechanical damage rather than chemical defenses?


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## cschub13

I'm going to have nightmares tonight, thanks for the heads up!


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## sports_doc

Inappropriate> ?

No.

Confusing> ?

Yes.

and I still dont have an answer


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## oddlot

This is disturbing on many levels.I would have thought the stomach acids would have done in the larvae.Do you think the results would be the same if the frog got the beetle before it had gotten attacked by it?

I wonder if say an african bullfrog with strong jaws would succumb if it was first to draw on the beetle or bite the larvae.They can pulverize whole adult mice,but aren't very graceful,which wouldn't likely give it a second chance.Either way I don't like this beetle!

Oh and George,this would make a good syfy movie,just make the beetle a bit bigger and prey on humans


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## wikiwakawakawee

Happened to me too
Somehow i was being sarcastic?


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## marylanddartfrog

So what eats the beetle that eats frogs?


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## Dendroguy

marylanddartfrog said:


> So what eats the beetle that eats frogs?


Probably this.









D


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## Groundhog

marylanddartfrog said:


> So what eats the beetle that eats frogs?




...good...question...


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## TheCoop

Lo,l I think I saw a few of those monsters at Microcosm..


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## Groundhog

TheCoop said:


> Lo,l I think I saw a few of those monsters at Microcosm..


I-should-hope-not...

Seriously, don't even kid around like that--there are baby frogs here!!

If I ever see a bug guy selling these at a herp show, with feeder froglets, this will ensue:


Star Trek - Hauled Away As Garbage - YouTube

http://youtu.be/kEMJk39km6c


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## AzureusRBoss

oddlot said:


> This is disturbing on many levels.I would have thought the stomach acids would have done in the larvae.Do you think the results would be the same if the frog got the beetle before it had gotten attacked by it?
> 
> I wonder if say an african bullfrog with strong jaws would succumb if it was first to draw on the beetle or bite the larvae.They can pulverize whole adult mice,but aren't very graceful,which wouldn't likely give it a second chance.Either way I don't like this beetle!
> 
> Oh and George,this would make a good syfy movie,just make the beetle a bit bigger and prey on humans


I think an African bullfrog is way to large for the beetle to subdue and would crush the little beetle


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## AzureusRBoss

And I bet this lil beetle couldn't take out the worlds largest mantis


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## AzureusRBoss

the African praying mantis the largest species can take out a two foot garter snake and small birds like finches with ease plus it's faster than the beetle and provided camouflage the beetle won't even be able to see it before its too late


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## sagidec

AzureusRBoss said:


> the African praying mantis the largest species can take out a two foot garter snake and small birds like finches with ease plus it's faster than the beetle and provided camouflage the beetle won't even be able to see it before its too late


Still loses to the bombadier beetle and assassin bug though.


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## FroggerFrog

sagidec said:


> Still loses to the bombadier beetle and assassin bug though.


And then you have the Asian Giant Hornet…


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