# Epoxy suitable for water feature



## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I'm building a waterfall for a viv and am a bit confused. I am trying to find an epoxy that is suitable/safe for the waterfall. I've read through many posts about this type of application but it seems there is no solid answer on the safeness of epoxies. I found one at my local Lowes but can't find the listing on their site. The epoxy I was thinking about using says it is drinking water safe and is designed for use in water tanks. If the epoxy is "drinking water safe", will it be frog safe once cured?

-Christian Powell


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Christian,

I assume you're looking for a two-part epoxy putty. Personally, I think *any* two-part epoxy would be safe once it has cured. If you're really nervous about the selection, you might consider one of the epoxies used in reef tanks for attaching coral frags to the tank's rock work. These epoxies cure underwater in reef tanks with live fish and live corals with no effect on either of them.

Unfortunately for froggers, the color is usually purple (simulating a reef's coraline algae), but I believe a gray color is also available. Let me know if you'd like some links to these epoxies.

Regards,
Bob


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

The stuff I found at lowes is a 2 part but I think it self mixes in the syringe. Any clue if it's safe for frogs if it's safe for drinking water?

And yes, would be very interested in those links 


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Christian,

Here's a link for some gray epoxy putty used in reef systems:
TLF-AQUASTIK-GRAY Premium Aquatics - TLF-AQUASTIK-GRAY Aquarium Supplies

I haven't used the two-part-syringe type epoxy in my reef system.

Regards,
Bob


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks Bob!


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## tgoff0112 (Apr 28, 2013)

I've used quiksteel in both reef tanks and vivs. It's found in the auto section of stores like Walmart and comes as a 2 part epoxy putty. It is safe to use in reef tanks even while not cured and hardens in minutes.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Are you looking to build with the epoxy material or are you laying it up over foam or are you looking to just brush it over a grout or something?

I have an epoxy that will work if you are looking to use it for the first two applications. If you want a liquid you'll need to go with a two part, usually found in quart volumes online.

Radiata is correct, mostly. The epoxy it'self, when used and cured properly is inert. The chemicals bind together to form a long waterproof interlocked polymer chain. The issue however, when it comes to frogs/fish/invertebrates, is that here in the USA we have not regulated the epoxy industry in the same way the UK and other places have. We still allow the use of the toxic nonylphenol in epoxy and many other industries. It has multiple other uses but when used in epoxy formulations it acts as a catalyst and filler. The issue is that it is a true catalyst in that it facilitates the chemical reaction but is not chemically bound into the polymer chain. As such it has the ability to leach out into the environment, and when dealing with a closed system like an aquarium/vivarium this has the potential to build up and cause issues. 

This is why I started making my own epoxy a while back. The ones I wanted to use that were commercially available either contained it or would not give me the MSDS to find out if it did. So I made my own. It works like clay so it doesn't work like a liquid would. If you want to use a safe liquid epoxy, using something marketed for the aquarium trade will work, just check the manufacturer's supplied MSDS online first to see if nonylphenol is listed. If they don't have one or you can't find it easily, don't use it. OSHA regulates the use of MSDS and while manufacturers are supposed to make it available to their customers, it isn't always the case and I have found that practice to be usually due to trying to hide something analytical chemists like me would get upset about. 

And use gloves when working with epoxy. All epoxies. Every time.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Ok... Next question that I was confused about... Using grout with the epoxy... Does it matter which type of grout? I was looking at the Polyblend brand from Lowes... Not much of a selection when it comes to grout here 

When I apply the grout to the epoxy, do I mix it with the putty or pour it on after it's applied to the structure?

Sorry for asking a million questions but I've been reading about using the epoxy-grout method for a few years now and just can't seem to grasp this one...

Thanks in advance!

-Christian Powell


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I think I might have mistaken the use of grout with epoxy... I just spent the last two hours reading through the "How to make fake rocks" sticky... It looks like I'm supposed to apply sand (not grout) to the final layer/s of epoxy and then sand it down once hardened.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Vivworks---why not try to market YOUR formula as a two-part...


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't recommend using the US Composites 635 Resin System. I found it mentioned a couple of times here on dendroboard for plywood construction and many more times on reef sites. I used it for my new 165G enclosure, but it has a couple of important problems. I think my project will probably be OK--it's not a boat--but for better peace of mind I wish that I had used a higher quality product instead of this cheap stuff.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Judy: One of a million projects currently undergoing. It just takes me forever to get anything done. I just finished developing the colors for the epoxy clay, but making a liquid version that doesn't require a scale is possible but yet another project. But I have a different material all together I've been working on for years to fit that niche anyways. A low pH grout/cement. Just not done yet. I need like 3 of me.

The typical ways people use liquid epoxy:

1. Resin over grout. Idea is to seal and support the dried grout that has been painted over foam. Issue is it yields a bright shine. That is where the sanding and adding sand comes in.

2. Mixing liquid epoxy with materials like grout or sands. This is a less used method but can work to make some unique looks.

I wouldn't pour dry grout powder over wet epoxy. It might work but I'm not sure what this would yield when it got wet and the grout began to react. Worth a try though.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

VivariumWorks said:


> Judy: One of a million projects currently undergoing. It just takes me forever to get anything done. I just finished developing the colors for the epoxy clay, but making a liquid version that doesn't require a scale is possible but yet another project. But I have a different material all together I've been working on for years to fit that niche anyways. A low pH grout/cement. Just not done yet. I need like 3 of me.


Product development is a lot of work. That is why companies employ whole teams to develop new things. It's a lot more complicated than it would seem. I have been working on my projects for years and I have just a handful of products resolved and ready for the retail shelf.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I tried my hand with the quicksteel epoxy as recommended by tgoff0012. This is just a test run on a foam ball that I melted down, covered with quicksteel epoxy putty, and rolled in some baked backyard clay/dirt. 










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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Not sure why the photo loaded so bad. Hopefully this is better:











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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Just started the first coat of the waterfall. Looks like it's going to take at least two. The first coat I'm smashing the sand and dried clay into the epoxy putty then sanding it down a little. For the second coat, I'm going to knead the sand and clay into the putty before applying. Hopefully this works and turns out ok in the end. Here's a sneak peak at the beginning of the first coat:










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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I suppose you are showing us the cured epoxy, but make sure you wear gloves when handling the uncured putty.

A chemical respirator is a good idea too.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for the tips hydrophyte. Yup, it's a few hours after application.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Here's another update... Going to have to switch from epoxy putty to a liquid type... This is 7 tubes of epoxy (approx $35) worth and I'm not even 1/2 way finished. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good, decently priced two part epoxy mix that comes in a can?










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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I don't know if it's really cheap but west systems comes in gallon cans / jugs as well as smaller sizes. You could look for an alternative to theirs or just use theirs.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Anyone know if this is safe in a viv once cured?










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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Not sure if this means anything... Found it researching the Devcon epoxy: http://www.devcon.com/products/products.cfm?csid=131&family=5 Minute® Epoxy&brand=Devcon


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Here's a better photo of the in progress waterfall... Not sure why my photo size is so limited now with tapatalk... The images used to load full resolution... The reason I purchased the app :/










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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

tapa talk is a disease, I just use a web browser.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

You should just get some Polygem Zoopoxy. It is proven with years of use in animal enclosures and it will be a better value than buying these small containers of stuff off the shelf.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I am finally able to sit down at my computer and post these pics _not_ using tapatalk... Here are the same photos with a bit better resolution (I hope)...

These are photos of the waterfall progress. The final photo is of the waterfall on the false bottom. I will add more photos once it is installed (after I build the background). Not sure why the attachment manager automatically rotated some of these.

- Christian


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Decided to try and use photos from Photobucket instead of directly uploading them...


Here is the foam glued together before it was torched for details:


This is after it was torched and during the application of the first coat of "Quicksteel" brand epoxy and sand/dry clay:


Here is the waterfall being fit and measurements made to the false bottom for a trapdoor to access the waterfall pump:


Decided to make some fake rocks... After shaping and torching a foam ball, epoxy was applied to the foam and then rolled in sand:


Here are a few of the rocks I made today. After rolling in sand and dry clay dirt, I used a knife to add some detail:


I am hoping to get some more foam later this week which I will use to build some rock ledges to mount on the background. I will add more photos as this project progresses.

- Christian Powell


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Wasn't too happy with the way the waterfall was looking so I got some amazing epoxy from Vivariumworks... This stuff is so much easier to work with and is very easy to sculpt. Here's an update photo of the waterfall renovation:



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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Here is as far as I'm getting tonight... Back at it in the morning...



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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

SnakePaparazzi said:


> Here is as far as I'm getting tonight... Back at it in the morning...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks great man.....

The epoxy is really easy to use....started playing around with it this week....


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## nate_88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Looks sweet dude


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Hopefully I can finish it today... 


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Finished! Time to work on the background & false bottom 

With rock topper:




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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Decided to work on the false bottom first since it seems to make more sense working from the bottom up.

Got more foam this morning and began carving out the portion where the water will flow out of the waterfall and into the pond area. This will be built up a bit more once I get the back of it sealed and attached to the egg crate false bottom. Notice that this piece will fit into the egg crate. I left two rows of egg crate which are wrapped in screen at the bottom to allow for water to flow from the pond under the false bottom where a small filter will be:


The back of this section is sealed in epoxy and will be left alone to cure until tomorrow night or Sunday morning. I will be adding more to the back to completely seal off the gap where it will sit.


More to follow in a day or two.

-Christian



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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Decided to build up the rocks in the pond a bit. Still working on sealing off the backside. Realized last night it would have been much easier to create a blank wall to plug the false bottom gap with then gluing on the slanted foam... Lesson learned.



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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Started working on the background today. I decided to do rocks with an exposed roots look.

I first created a form out of cardboard. Using the form, I measured branches which look somewhat root-like:


I then took foam and using hot glue, glued them into place (leaving a void where the waterfall will be:


Once the foam was in place, I laid the "roots" on the foam and marked where I would be carving. Once carved, I put the "roots" in place:


After putting the "roots in place, I added more foam in areas where they were lifted off the foam:


Once I had the overexposed roots subdued to my liking, I removed the foam from the form and placed it in the Exoterra to ensure it fit and didn't interfere with the waterfall:


I will be working on the majority of the background while it is out of the vivarium so that it's easier to work on. Once the majority of it is coated in epoxy & sand/clay, I will move it to the vivarium and make it appear to be joined to the waterfall.

More to follow...

-Christian Powell



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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

Foam is carved and ready for a light torching:



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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

After torching the foam, I began sealing it where the wood will go. Once a layer of epoxy was put down, the wood was then set in place:






Now begins the tedious task of covering the face and making the foam look like stone. Will add more photos when that process begins...

-Christian


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

SnakePaparazzi said:


> After torching the foam, I began sealing it where the wood will go. Once a layer of epoxy was put down, the wood was then set in place:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What kind of foam you using Christian?


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

The white flora foam found at Michael's and other craft stores.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

SnakePaparazzi said:


> The white flora foam found at Michael's and other craft stores.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome thanks
.....dont know why but never thought about looking there.....Wanted to use sheets but have read and heard warnings about the pink and blue insulation foam.


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## SnakePaparazzi (Jul 20, 2008)

I think the white is ok. I just make sure to completely seal it just in case.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

SnakePaparazzi said:


> I think the white is ok. I just make sure to completely seal it just in case.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I have read that the white is the better stuff.....not really made from the same type of foam....

Cant wait to see what you come up with


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