# Out of Town Feeding (Techniques & Questions)



## Jay Why (Aug 27, 2005)

So for my new job I fly alot and am basically out of town Mon-Fri for at least 3 weeks of the month. I really wanted to keep my frogs, and have them at home when I'm back on weekends, so I've been using a couple techniques while I'm gone.

(FYI - my frogs are 2 nicely plump in the belly 5 month out of water Auratus kept in a 10 gal with 10watt flourescent light, mid-level density of plants and a drip wall that keeps things moist.)

First, I feed pretty heavily on the weekends, especially Sun night and Mon morning so the tank is loaded. Second I found that in an emergency the frogs do fine if you just load lots of flies in a small Glad container with just a single hole in the lid. (I figure the frogs have a slow source of flies coming out for at least three days, then they are on their own to hunt down the hidden ones.)Last, I've been using something like the technique thrown around here at Dendroboard:Fatten Frogs...

I've been doing this for a month now and the frogs are doing well - seem to be growing as usual, no-one getting less chubby. 

This is a very different feeding regimin that I'm going to be relying on, so I need to make it efficient and rock-solid dependable. I'll share my experiments and experiences as I go since I don't think anyone else is going this direction but I would REALLY appreciate feedback and thoughts!

Some of the questions/ideas I'm working with now are:

1) The mini/vacation cultures work, but after 5 days in a hi-humidity tank, they seem to get too moist and don't seem to be usable (could be wrong, but I haven't been confident enough to try them for another week.) I'm struggling with how to make the media dry enough to take the in-tank time well, but not so dry that it can't establish when first made.

2) I don't like only being able to dust with vitamins 2-3 out of 7 days... I'm thinking there has to be a way to create a chamber on top of the cultures so as the flies move from the culture to the viv, they have to travel through vitamin dust. Problem is the vitamins are exposed to extremely moist air and will break down or get too wet to stick to flies. How soon? Even if I can get partial dusting for 2 days, its better than none.

3) I toyed with the idea of using a full sized culture outside the viv with a tube running into the viv for the flies to travel through. Didn't have time to test much, and despite some fruit in the tank by the tube's exit the flies couldn't figure out how to even get into the tube...

4) Springtails obviously need to be part of my long-term solution.

`Nuff brain-dump for now... feedback, please!

Jay


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Seed your tank with as many long term feeders as possible. Try different types of isopods. Flyculture is still offering Dwarf Woodlice, and you can always seed with A. vulgare as well. P. scaber has softer bodied babies, so they're a good possibility as well. Heck, go outside into a pesticide free area, and collect some of your own. The frogs won't eat the adults, but the babies make a great snack. Also, you should absolutely seed with springs. The frogs will hunt them down whenever they get hungry. Variety is key when unable to dust as often as you should. Offer small waxworms, RFB larvae/beetles, Shorelinite beetles, micro mealies, termites, aphids, and anything else you can get your hands on to supplement with. Do you have anyone at home who could do a supplemented feeding one or two times a week? Remember the frogs health at all times is the most important thing. Good luck!


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## Jay Why (Aug 27, 2005)

Nice - thats some tasty info blue. I'm curious about the load size for a 10 gal tank with 2 auratus though.

To start I'll try to seed the tank with springtails and pill or sow bugs. Springs sound easy to culture, so I'll try and seed the tank, but keep a
culture going to add when needed. But pill/sow bugs - how many would be
good for a 10 gal? I'm guessing too many could be a problem in that small a tank. I know from aquariums that smaller can be more difficult because there is less margin for error in a smaller environment.

I guess what I need to figure out is how many different types of long term feeders are appropriate, and in what quantity, to be a good backup food source for frogs but not stressful to them.

Also, my glass lid doesn't sit flat on the top, so how likely are any of these bugs to venturing from the humid environment? I spot the occasional FF that has wandered off, but that doesn't bother me (we find alot of spiders where I live, but no cobwebs....) Do springs and pills stay
put or are they adventurous? 

Anyone have some good links on culturing long term feeders or seeding vivs? The sites that offer them don't give much info other than the price they'll sell them to you. 

Thanks for the info and helping me think out loud - and yeah, the frogs health is my biggest concern. I've raised these two since they still had tails and take some pride in that.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

If you have the means, double the tank size (at least)...two auratus in a twenty...
If you are setting up a new tank, and have some time before the frogs go in, seed it with as many springtails and isopods as you can get you're hands on...they will find the population size that suits them best. I doubt you'd have enough isopods in there to actually cause a problem.
I haven't played with the idea of "vacation feeding" but occasionally I feed ff larvae, and I just take a scoop off of the top of an enriched culture and put in in the viv, media and all. If the frogs don't eat all of the larvae, they pupate and turn into flies. I've noticed the springtails in the viv take a fancy to the media that goes with the scoop (a plus)...one thing to be careful of with this sort of thing is too much co2 production...a slightly ventilated tank is prefered...as long as it won't dry out.


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## Jay Why (Aug 27, 2005)

Hehe - I was hoping someone would encourage a bigger tank. Wouldn't I be better off with a 100 gallon? :twisted: 

The baby-food jar sized Glad disposable containers seem to be small enough that co2 isn't a problem. They are small and I have a good 1/8th inch space on the left and front side between the glass and tank top. I was very concerned when I first started, but everything seems ok. I've got a small pump dripping water on wood and the background in 3 places, so humidity keeps up nice.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Well....yeah, the bigger the better...if you had something the size of a greenhouse, you could probably just leave it alone totally.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip " RFB larvae/beetles, Shorelinite beetles, micro mealies, termites, aphids, and anything else you can get your hands on to supplement with. Do you have anyone at home who could do a supplemented feeding one or two times a week? Remember the frogs health at all times is the most important thing. Good " endsnip

Except that these insects are insufficient in calcium and vitamin A.... Vitamin D3 can be supplied with good lighting. 
The only invertebrate listed as a good calcium source are the isopods but soft bodies ones may have less calcium bound up in the chitin (as the calcium is used as a support structure). 

What I would try if you are home consistently on the weekends, I would try using a complete supplement on both those days as well as every other day when you are home for the week. The D3, and A are fat soluable so any excess beyond what is metabolically requred at that time will be stored. This may supply sufficient vitamins and minerals to the frogs. 

Ed


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

You could always try Ben Eiben's compost tank! It would take a while to set up and get established, but two auratus would probibly do well in one...


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## Jay Why (Aug 27, 2005)

Thanks for the input folks - you've all been really great in helping me figure this out - my and my frogs thank you. I'm going to seed the tank with springs and iso's and I feed once or twice a day when I'm home on the weekend with dusted (repcal herpitive and repcal calcium with d3.)

The compost tank is an awesome idea. My first concern was stench - but it sounds like if you follow good compost technique it isn't a problem. Thats an area I'm going to look into for future bigger tanks.


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## sebastiaan (Apr 19, 2007)

I might be a little late with this but i got some tips for u. 
( if u succeeded in keeping your frogs this way id like to hear it to)

about vitamins: if you grow you ff's on a vitamine rich substrate they will house more vitamins to ! thats a good addition plus it ads to your colony's heath. 

next thing is don't overdo on vitamins in the weekend, high concentrations of vitamins can be harmfull, especially vit A. 

Excuse me for my poor english im dutch.


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