# This is a blue sip?



## a Vertigo Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

I know the quality of the pic isnt good but the color of the two is all you need to see for all intents and purposes. The one on the right I know for sure is a lime but the one on the left...


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

it looks like it to me


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## Josh_Leisenring (Jun 19, 2005)

Looks like a blue sip to me. With regards to the different Sipaliwini color morphs (yellow, green, blue), could someone clarify if they are, in fact, geographically distinct morphs/populations, or are we looking at more of a case of just variation within a single morph? Not to hijack the thread, of course...  Thanks! 

- Josh


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2006)

pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between a blue sip and a new river? They look very similar. are they found in different regions?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Josh, no one can currently speak for the sips, other than the true sips, in the hobby. The yellows seem to breed true, the few that there are. As for the blue and the green/leopard/lime green... while one is pretty consistent in producing the color (green), the other (blue) tosses both... I've been told that blue sips have been line bred to have them throw blues more consistently. It is unsure if blue and green sips are are from the same population and were just sorted out into different colors, or if they are from different parts of the same population, or are just two separate populations that happy to have variation that looks similar to the other... tho I'm inclined to believe they are variation of the same population (if even collected from different parts of the population) and have since been line bred into being more "consistant". Basically the frogs have just about identical characteristics in size and pattern. Its unknown if these animals are populations or just variation, and in typical hobby style, we've separated them out and line bred them (in this case often on purpose tho).

New rivers are very similar, but not the same population. Blue sips, when not greenish (new rivers are never greenish) tend to be a very pale baby blue to almost white, and have very rounded spots like the other green and yellow sips. The new rivers are more like a blotchy azureus... their black pattern is generally smaller, the blue pattern much more spider web like than solid areas of color, and they have more irregular black blotches on a darker shade of light blue, much like the light blue on the back of an azureus.

To better ID these animals, we'd need to know more information on them. Who did you get them from (and can you get accurate information on them from the breeder), and why are you so sure the one on the right is a green sip? And honestly, color is not the only thing we're looking for... pattern also plays a part. I cannot tell how "clean" or "irregular" the blotches are, so I couldn't say for certain if it was a sip or a new river, tho I'm inclined to think sip.

What it really comes down to is that if you don't have accurate information from who you got them from, what we say here doesn't mean much. Experienced keepers that know how to tell the differences between morphs may be able to say "It's most likely..." but it really doesn't mean much. Like bromeliads and orchids, once the "tag" is lost, its gone for good, and tossing on a label that you can never be certain of is more detrimental if you pass on the genes of that organism (in this case breeding the frog) into the hobby than you think. Of course, if the animal is just a pet and you never intent to breed, the label doesn't matter anyways.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2006)

> New rivers are very similar, but not the same population. Blue sips, when not greenish (new rivers are never greenish) tend to be a very pale baby blue to almost white, and have very rounded spots like the other green and yellow sips. The new rivers are more like a blotchy azureus... their black pattern is generally smaller, the blue pattern much more spider web like than solid areas of color, and they have more irregular black blotches on a darker shade of light blue, much like the light blue on the back of an azureus.


thanks for the info


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## a Vertigo Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

These came from patricia at vanishing jewels and are F1s (before you ask, she is hard to get a hold of, I'll get a quicker response here). Ive seen the parents (ant it was more than just sips! :lol: ) but I only got to look through her frog room once. I feel she is a rather private person. She will answer questions but will not get in depth but thats besides the point. She raises all her tads together and she easily has several hundred tads going at any given time. She throws all like sized tads together so no knowing what they will be until they morph out. The proposed blue sip was green like its sibling next to it but as its grown larger its gotten bluer and of the 4 I got only this one has turned bluish. I do not remember if she has blue sips. I know she has green for sure and were a bright lime.

I have New Rivers so I know what a baby new riv looks like. Definitely not a new river.

In any case I guess as it gets older I'll get a better idea of what it is.

Thanks for the input!


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Sounds like you'll just have to wait on getting a response from her on if they are green or blue, tho as mentioned in debates about these two "morphs" there might not be much of a difference... but its always good to know. And just cuz they were green doesn't mean they were limes lol, they could have just been very green blues! That's why even if you mix tinc tads, make sure you clearly label the containers, and don't put similar looking morphs, or you'll end up in this situation and never know...


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## a Vertigo Guy (Aug 17, 2006)

Just got a response from her. She said she had blue sips and most likely this is a blue sip. Or like you said, could be a very blue green sip!


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