# shy Auratus, strange behavior



## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

Hello All,
I am not an experienced dendrobate keeper, I primarily breed snakes, but around 4 years ago I kept and bred a pair of D. auratus, six spot panamanian morph. I recently acquired two D. auratus "kahlua and cream" or campana morphs believed to be a pair. I have had them in the enclosure for approximately a week and have noticed some interesting behavior that I think is worth asking about:
-lots of wiping and opening and closing of the mouth. I think it's possible the frog may be shedding, but I can't see skin coming off (though I may just be missing it). I noticed it once a few days ago and once while spraying today. Any idea what's up with this activity? I really see only one of the frogs doing it.
-a bit shy. I have only witnessed the frogs eat a few flies. I keep the enclosure in the high 70s(F), humidity above 85%, and the enclosure is heavily planted with many available hiding places. The frogs aren't particularly bold, but they don't just seem blatantly shy...they do not hide from me when I am in the room and they do move around a good deal (lots of climbing)...this is why I am confused about the feeding. They do spend most of their time on one of the bromeliads and I haven't witnessed them coming to the ground to feed much.

I may be being impatient and they may still be adjusting to their enclosure, but better safe than sorry. Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated,
-Sean


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

might I add the frogs both seem overall very healthy, but the same frog who seems to be a bit shy on feeding (and possibly shedding dead skin) often sits for a long while in this hunched over position, as if looking at something closely (like a fruitfly), and is slightly less active.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

The opening and closing mouth thing sounds like shedding to me. Is this in the morning that you are seeing it?

Don't know about the behavior. When mine were young, the climbed a lot. Not much now unless chasing something they want to eat. They do stay hidden most of the time. 

Can we see a pic of their viv?


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

I cannot recall the time exactly, but morning or afternoon I observed the activity. I now am more certain the frog is shedding, as I believe I have seen some loose dead skin, though what is up with the hunched over thing? I have included a picture of both the vivarium and the frog. I apologize for the poor quality, I will be able to take better pictures soon. The vivarium harbors the 4 plants, a coconut hut in the back left, the large cork slab the frogs are able to hind behind as it is just leaning, and magnolia leaves cover the floor. I have a hard time believing the frogs are short of hiding places, but I do believe the frog may be stressed. Do they act a bit odd while shedding? The enclosure is also not as well lighted as the picture implies: I have a brighter light shining on the tank so that the picture would come out better.


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

*goner*

Sadly, I found the "hunched over" frog to be dead. Any ideas? The frog seemed to be displaying signs of confusion, such as sitting close to and facing the coconut hider (nearly nose on it), sitting in odd places in odd positions, just stuff I've never witnessed in other D. auratus individuals or even other frogs. The only odd thing I noticed is that the frog seemed to be in shed (or have something on it, but it looks to be dead, shedding skin). It seems to me as though the frog was over-stressed, but I cannot imagine why! The conditions in the tank were correct, the frog had many hiding places, everything was properly treated, the room was not high-traffic (stress?), etc. I'm confused, embarrassed, and just looking for answers...

Should I get the currently healthy frog out and into something else? Should I strip the tank and get rid of the decor, plants, etc?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear that 

Since you don't know what killed the frog, I would recommend a tear down and sterilization of the tank. Do you have any close up pics of what his skin looked like? Is it possible that it was chytrid? (do a search on chytrid to find pics).

I'm not an expert, btw. Hopefully some more experienced folks will comment.


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

"What are the signs of chytridiomycosis?
An amphibian that is sick with chytridiomycosis can have a wide variety of symptoms or “clinical signs”. Some of the most common signs are reddened or otherwise discolored skin, excessive shedding of skin, abnormal postures such as a preference for keeping the skin of the belly away from the ground, unnatural behaviors such as a nocturnal species that suddenly becomes active during the day, or seizures." Chytrid Fungus « Amphibian Ark

I am very sad to say that this is very much like what I noticed... Shedding, abnormal postures (hunching), unnatural behavior... I cannot say for sure it was Chytrid...the skin of the frog didn't look very bad. I will be removing the currently healthy frog now. 

I read that chytrid appears within two weeks... I had these frogs for a week and 2 days and the frog only began showing signs a day or two ago before passing. Is death due to stress still a possibility? What should I do for my other frog other than remove it from the enclosure? I'm guessing test and treatment? Thanks for your help


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Definately test and treat per the Vets instructions.


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

That's the plan. Are there any specific or obvious visual signs of Chytrid in PDFs or are the symptoms mostly overlapping? How long is the minimum time for frog to show symptoms for chytrid? I properly treated everything entering the enclosure, which the frogs have only remained in for a week and 2 days. I am trying to determine whether this happened while in my care or in the care of whom I purchased from. Regardless, my course of action for my current frog will be the same.


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## JaysPDF (Dec 29, 2010)

My campana are very bold. The tank I put them in has a background on it and plenty of cover. I have some other auratus morphs that were in tanks without a background and they were always very shy. after adding the background to some new tanks and adding them to it with plenty of plants, they are now out ALL the time. They seem to like the "overgrown" look. My first experience with these species is that they are very shy. But after putting them into tanks that have tons of cover, my perception has changed. These are some of the most bold frogs I have at the moment.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

As I said, I'm no expert. Also, I've never delt with chytrid. However, if it was me, I'd toss everything in the tank (I think Ed said to double bag and send to landfill). Then I'd soak the tank with bleach water.

I'd try to get the other frog tested for chytrid. In the mean time, I'd keep it isolated and try to eliminate the possibility of spreading chytrid, just in case.

If it is chytrid, I suspect it came in with it and had nothing to do with your husbandry. Unless you've been keeping other amphibians that might have infected your PDFs. 

Not saying that it *is* chytrid. I have no way of knowing. Just saying that I would treat the situation as if it was, just to be on the safe side.


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

That's exactly what I'll be doing. I'll look up getting it tested. How costly is treatment? Is it something you can only get through a veterinarian? Can things such as cork be spared by putting them in the oven? Any possible method of sparing plants? I will be removing the other frog and putting it in a suitable enclosure as we speak. I guess I am lucky in that the sense that I have only this frog and snakes.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Symptoms of chytrid can appear much sooner or later in a frog that has been previously infected depending on the cage temperatures. The only way to be sure that this was the problem is to get the frog necropsied by a vet. If the frog has histopathology done on it then there is decent chance a badly infected from will be correctly diagnosed otherwise a swab can be sent out for PCR testing. 

Chytrid is hard to diagnose in your case without the test as other diseases or issues that disrupt the ability to osmoregulate can also cause symptoms. 

I would suggest testing the remaining frogs, if the one that died had chytridmycosis, it is likely the other frogs in the cage do as well. 

Ed


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

Thank you all who responded, all of your information was useful and much appreciated. I will let you know the end result on this and what the death was due to. What a shame.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I am really sorry for your loss.
I wanted to mention there is a lab here in TX called Research Associates Laboratory that will do Chytrid tests for $15.00. The last time I had one done was from Pisces and it was ALOT more.
Here is the info: Research Associates Laboratory, Inc. at vetdna.com, E-mail: [email protected], phone: 972-960-2221. I talked to Ernie Colaizzi the Lab Director when I was at the NARBC in Arlington a few weeks ago and was extreemly inpressed with what they have now and are working on.

-Beth


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

Thought I'd update on this to make this a more useful post:

The frogs described in this thread were my first PDF's in many years. My previous experience with PDF's was in highschool, when I raised a pair of D. auratus to adulthood, raised the offspring they produced, and encountered no problems. The frogs in this thread were bought by a friend as a gift from a vendor (not on DB) with a poor reputation. The vendor was contacted and replaced the frog with two more campana, one of which also died soon after from near identical circumstances. All four frogs came in looking like they've had a tough life. The vendor cut off contact after he sent the other two frogs, which wound up being sent to the wrong address, several states away (the frogs were safely recovered). The cause of death is unknown and I was unable to get a necropsy done. Looking back 9 months, I think chytrid was a wild assumption and that the frogs were simply in very bad condition upon receiving, though I cannot say without a necropsy.

Since the two frogs had died, everything has been smooth sailing. The two remaining frogs are now both very healthy and in a permanent vivarium more appropriately set up for their privacy needs. Their body size, shape, and even colors look healthier and, though occasionally skittish, have become more bold. They are incredibly fun, actively foraging for isopods and other microfauna in the leaf litter. I have also acquired a group of 3 campana from a dendroboard member that are calling and producing eggs.

What I have learned: 
1. do not make crazy assumptions about the death of your frog, get the necropsy done. I did indeed pursuit a necropsy and even emailed some of my professors who worked with chytrid, but too much time had elapsed when I found a viable option. I now know what to do and where to go if I have a future problem.
2. a lot of other stuff.

I am proud to say my frogs are happy and healthy. Thanks to all who have helped.
-Sean


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