# Newbie needs help...soil is too wet



## nightowl (Dec 13, 2010)

I am now on my second viv but I see a reoccurring problem I can't seem to not over water the viv . My original viv I have replanted 5 times now ( I originally had a build thread). Twice from soggy soil, once from plants dieing, clay background fail, and then finally the switch to ABG soil mix. I am having a hard time making sure the soil is moist enough but not making it too wet. I think I have finally found a set of plants that are "me proof" and they seem to be growing. 

In both tanks I have added three types of micro-fauna. I have two types of isopods, some volunteer mites?, and recently spring tails. With that being said I have a few questions.


How long before spring tails take hold in the vivs and what can I do the make them produce faster?

How many days can I go without water/misting the tank if I have a clay background?

Is there a way to make certain areas of the soil more dry than others without effecting the growth of the plants?

How bushy should I let these things grow in or is that more of personal preference?


A couple of pictures for reference

First Viv

IMG_6595 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr

Second Viv

IMG_6597 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr


Thanks in advance...


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## purplezephead (Aug 26, 2011)

The plant growth is a personal opinion, I let mine go wild; just keep in mind some plants may get shaded out, so trim accordingly. I have a few tanks w/clay background and it took a couple months of misting a few times a week before the clay quit drying out. Now I hardly ever have to mist (couple times a month), they stay humid on their own; unless I'm trying to incite breeding then I mist every other day. Getting the humidity levels just right for your plants can be a task, I tend to ensure what ever plant I buy can handle constant moisture so I don't have to worry about it. If your soil is too wet b/c your misting in an attempt to keep the clay from drying out, try directing the misting to the clay only, giving the soil a break.

Also I'm not sure an exact eta on springtails taking hold, but I do know that mites will out compete them in a culturing container, not sure if the same thing will happen in the viv.


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## trevorthetoad (Nov 5, 2012)

For the water issue, I use a small 3" diameter clay flower pot (like the kind you get small orchids in from the nursery) with a hole in the bottom as a well to drain water from the drainage layer. I put the pot in, then the drainage layer, then the soil, so the hole at the bottom doesn't get clogged with dirt. The frogs don't seem to mind having a well on the floor of their tank.

I have a clay background on my tank, and it sags in the places where pools of water were able to collect behind it. I mist heavily every other day or so, and I'm not having a problem with it in the spots where water can't collect between it and the glass.

I hope this helps. And by the way, your vivs look great!!


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## nightowl (Dec 13, 2010)

Thank you both for your responses! This will help me get going in the right direction. I think I have found a plants that love moisture this time around. My tanks seem to be staying around 75% - 80% humidity. I have seen when I go more than that I have problems for some reason. I tried to look at the description more than oh that's a cool looking plant. All my cool looking plants died...lol. 

Here are a few shots of the "me proof" plants growing in my vivs...


IMG_6588 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr


IMG_6580 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr


IMG_6578 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr


IMG_6571 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr


IMG_6566 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr


IMG_6565 by LifeThrough_TheLense, on Flickr




purplezephead said:


> The plant growth is a personal opinion, I let mine go wild; just keep in mind some plants may get shaded out, so trim accordingly. I have a few tanks w/clay background and it took a couple months of misting a few times a week before the clay quit drying out. Now I hardly ever have to mist (couple times a month), they stay humid on their own; unless I'm trying to incite breeding then I mist every other day. Getting the humidity levels just right for your plants can be a task, I tend to ensure what ever plant I buy can handle constant moisture so I don't have to worry about it. If your soil is too wet b/c your misting in an attempt to keep the clay from drying out, try directing the misting to the clay only, giving the soil a break.
> 
> Also I'm not sure an exact eta on springtails taking hold, but I do know that mites will out compete them in a culturing container, not sure if the same thing will happen in the viv.





trevorthetoad said:


> For the water issue, I use a small 3" diameter clay flower pot (like the kind you get small orchids in from the nursery) with a hole in the bottom as a well to drain water from the drainage layer. I put the pot in, then the drainage layer, then the soil, so the hole at the bottom doesn't get clogged with dirt. The frogs don't seem to mind having a well on the floor of their tank.
> 
> I have a clay background on my tank, and it sags in the places where pools of water were able to collect behind it. I mist heavily every other day or so, and I'm not having a problem with it in the spots where water can't collect between it and the glass.
> 
> I hope this helps. And by the way, your vivs look great!!


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm sorry if I don't understand, but in reference to your soil being too wet -- can't you water less? I feel like if your setups are too wet for the soil/plants, it would also be too wet for frogs.

Also, do you have a false bottom or drainage layer in your vivs?


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## nightowl (Dec 13, 2010)

hypostatic said:


> I'm sorry if I don't understand, but in reference to your soil being too wet -- can't you water less? I feel like if your setups are too wet for the soil/plants, it would also be too wet for frogs.
> 
> Also, do you have a false bottom or drainage layer in your vivs?


hypostatic - I have a LECA clay bottom for my drainage covered by a layer of mesh screening. I am also using ABG mix which drains well. I found out tonight what I was calling misting was really watering the tank so that has been the issue. I had a buddy stop by and show me what a proper mist looks like. The problem was I was trying to keep the clay background nice and wet since I did not want it fail on me. With any new hobby finding that balance is hard . I lurk around the boards and I am encouraged that one day I will have a good looking viv like so many on here.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

I good drain bulkead goes a long way..


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## nightowl (Dec 13, 2010)

TheCoop said:


> I good drain bulkead goes a long way..


TheCoop - I have a hidden piece of PVC that goes through the LECA, mesh, and soil. It has a cap that is camouflaged. I don't have any sanding water in the bottom of the viv at this point. I was going to use 3/4 bulkheads for the tank but if the frogs don't work out I plan to use the tanks for another purpose.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

nightowl said:


> I found out tonight what I was calling misting was really watering the tank so that has been the issue. I had a buddy stop by and show me what a proper mist looks like. The problem was I was trying to keep the clay background nice and wet since I did not want it fail on me.


You live and you learn haha.

Tips on misting:
You should be applying a fine layer of mist in the viv, not a rainfall.
Let the viv dry out a bit between mistings. Don't mist until your plants have dried out.
It looks like you're on automatic misting? Try setting it to mist for 5 seconds, once per day. If this isn't enough you can increase the time.
The purpose of misting is mostly to keep a high humidity. Even if it looks dry in your viv, the humidity can still be pretty high. You can manually check by just sticking your hand in the viv -- you'll be able to tell if it's humid.


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## nightowl (Dec 13, 2010)

hypostatic said:


> You live and you learn haha.
> 
> Tips on misting:
> You should be applying a fine layer of mist in the viv, not a rainfall.
> ...


hypostatic - Thanks for the tips. I am not on automatic misting yet. I am building a new stand that will hold both tanks so I have things drilled and the bucket in place for the MistKing but its not fully running yet. I hope to try this weekend to get the MistKing installed fully and running.


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## areynoldssr (Apr 29, 2013)

If you want your springtails to increase, sprinkle a little fishfood in the tank about once a week.


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Nice vivs!!!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## nightowl (Dec 13, 2010)

areynoldssr said:


> If you want your springtails to increase, sprinkle a little fishfood in the tank about once a week.


areynoldssr - Thanks. Flake or pellet or does it matter. I have been using flake with the isopods so far.



diggenem said:


> Nice vivs!!!
> 
> diggenem - Thanks! I have lots of inspiration from here.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Basically if your tank is less then half screen top, is well planted, and you don't live in the dessert you can get away with not misting for weeks, even months (No that generally isn't what you should do but it is possible), if there is water in your false bottom/drainage layer you're fine for awhile...how long depends on the conditions in your home, how densely planted your viv is, are you running fans, or have a lot of airflow in room that speeds up evaporation, and mostly how sealed up is your tank? 1 inch stirp of ventilation running across the front? More? None! ?

I basically like the water level in my drainage layer to be a half inch or so below the start of the soil layer...then I only mist enough to keep the water at that level...if it starts going up I may let it a little...but then cut back on misting for that week/or more....if it is dropping over the days/weeks...then you might wanna mist more...but as long as it isn't dry you're usually ok. 


These aren't fish.... The tank should have some ventilation (IMO), and as long as the soil is moist (Not saturated), the frogs will absorbe it through their skin, also that is usually enough to create high humidity micro climate (also a cooler temp usually) just above the surface in the zone the frogs inhabit. If the tank is less then 50% screen top and well planted and has some water in its drainage layer which wicks/evaporates to keept the soil above moist, you're generally fine.

Frogs can hydroregulate it seems....and when you mist all you need to do is spray enough to get everything wet, get a little moisture in the soil and then stop...*Once the plant has water on it leaves the rest just runs off,* and goes towards *saturating the soil. *

The frogs probably soak up a lot of their moisture at night or early morning...then the lights kick on and increase evaporation and thus ambient humidity and that probably helps the frogs hold in the moisture they sucked up from the night before and that morning, or at least offsets what they would loose in that heat in a dryer climate...essentially the humidity buys them time to rehydrate...and as long as they are touching moist ground they are probably absorobing moisture...and if they need more and the tank isn't completely dry they generally know where to find it...and will.


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## nightowl (Dec 13, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> Basically if your tank is less then half screen top, is well planted, and you don't live in the dessert you can get away with not misting for weeks, even months (No that generally isn't what you should do but it is possible), if there is water in your false bottom/drainage layer you're fine for awhile...how long depends on the conditions in your home, how densely planted your viv is, are you running fans, or have a lot of airflow in room that speeds up evaporation, and mostly how sealed up is your tank? 1 inch stirp of ventilation running across the front? More? None! ?
> 
> I basically like the water level in my drainage layer to be a half inch or so below the start of the soil layer...then I only mist enough to keep the water at that level...if it starts going up I may let it a little...but then cut back on misting for that week/or more....if it is dropping over the days/weeks...then you might wanna mist more...but as long as it isn't dry you're usually ok.
> 
> ...



Dendro Dave - Thanks! I have been fighting the urge to water everyday. The longest I have been able to go has been 3 days...then I mist the clay background. The humidity still seems to hold at 75 so I guess it will be fine with out the everyday misting . I managed to get my MistKing hooked up today so pretty soon I will not have to manually mist the tank . 

If there is no water in my LECA area am I still good or should let the tank dry out a bit and then add water to the LECA area and cut back on the misting?

Thanks again to everyone that has lent me their expertise!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

nightowl said:


> Dendro Dave - Thanks! I have been fighting the urge to water everyday. The longest I have been able to go has been 3 days...then I mist the clay background. The humidity still seems to hold at 75 so I guess it will be fine with out the everyday misting . I managed to get my MistKing hooked up today so pretty soon I will not have to manually mist the tank .
> 
> If there is no water in my LECA area am I still good or should let the tank dry out a bit and then add water to the LECA area and cut back on the misting?
> 
> Thanks again to everyone that has lent me their expertise!


You can mist every day, or most days at least but only a light dusting...and that is basically if you only *truly* just "dust' everything with water so that it all evaporates by the end of the day.

I believe you should always have alittle water in your false bottom or leca drainage layer...that is part of the point after all. That drainage layer is there to hold the excess water from misting and use it to slowly over time evaporate back into the soil...keeping the soil moist...but not saturated.

If your leca layer is dry, I'd try pouring some water in a place that will get it straight down to the Leca layer ASAP....Like a lot of times you can pour the water in a corner and most of it will go straight down to the false bottom or leca layer that way you don't saturate the whole tank...then mist the rest and leave it. 

You can just over mist your tank for awhile till the leca or false bottom water level starts to rise but that may be too much moisture in the top level for the plants if you do that for a long period of time.


Basically this all sounds way more complicated then it is. If you have a 2 inch tall drainage layer, have an inch of water in it...or at least don't let it go dry. If the water level rises over many days/weeks then you may be slightly over misting unless you are trying to simulate a rainy season. If the water keeps going down even though you are misting...you are under misting.

Basically try to mist the same amount for a few days...mark your water level on day 1....if on day 3-5 it starts going above your mark, cut down on misting. Maybe some day I'll have to do a time lapse video to show exactly what I mean...it is just one of those things it is so easy that people just can't seem to believe it and try to make it way more complicated then it is


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