# Hydei and malanogaster cross



## Daoriginalmaze (Feb 16, 2014)

Can hydei and malanogaster cross breed? If so what is the result?


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I believe you`ll end up with Hydeiogasters.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I believe so, I think it has happened to me in the past. I also get cross breeds with wild type that turn my tiny melos into hydie sized flies with a light brown/gold color and have stripes sometimes even (I think)


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

By the way, this is your second thread involving hybrids.


EDIT- sorry I was wrong, I think it`s your 4th or 5th and one was locked


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Daoriginalmaze. 
Let me try to explain John's last post. Without a proper introduction, and without us knowing the reason why you are so interested in hybrids (flies, crickets, frogs, etc.), it becomes difficult to discern if you are a serious member trying to belong in this forum or just another troll trying to stir shit. 
Hybrid frogs are a taboo topic around here so please don't take it personal. If you still have legitimate questions after exploring the many threads on this topic, do not hesitate to ask them. We are here to help each other grow by sharing personal knowledge.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Thanks JP, my response was a bit harsh.

To the OP, if I'm wrong I apologize


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## Daoriginalmaze (Feb 16, 2014)

My thread that got locked was regarding preventing someone from selling frogs that are against what most people feel that this hobby is about including myself. Maybe if people read the entire post then they would have realized that. As with questions about flies and crickets I did not realize that they are an endangered species that needs pure bloodlines as well...as far as I can tell there is nothing wrong with trying to find alternative foods for my frogs...I did a search on hybrid flies in the forum and came up empty handed so I figured it was a legit question.


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## Daoriginalmaze (Feb 16, 2014)

Dendro Dave said:


> I believe so, I think it has happened to me in the past. I also get cross breeds with wild type that turn my tiny melos into hydie sized flies with a light brown/gold color and have stripes sometimes even (I think)


Thanks for actually answering my question...I assume that they we fliers?


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

As far as I know Hydei and Melanogaster cannot hybridize. Many people do co-culture them together. The melanos work the media earlier and can help to reduce mold development.
The search button is your friend.
Fliers are only going to be produced by culturing flightless winged flies at temps above 87°F while in the larval stage or by introducing a wild fly.

Mixing flightless and wingless melanos will also produce fliers.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Daoriginalmaze said:


> I did a search on hybrid flies in the forum and came up empty handed so I figured it was a legit question.


It is... don't worry. People seriously need to learn how to chill out with this stuff. If anyone gives you a hard time again let me know and I'll personally deal with it. I'm sick of people jumping at new members for no reason. It is a black eye on this entire forum and it will not be tolerated much longer.



Reef_Haven said:


> The search button is your friend.


While normally I would agree... in this case he would have had to know about co-culturing... which maybe he legitimately didn't. He said he tried the search, don't need to harp on him for not knowing the exact term to get the results he needed.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Reef_Haven said:


> As far as I know Hydei and Melanogaster cannot hybridize. Many people do co-culture them together. The melanos work the media earlier and can help to reduce mold development.
> The search button is your friend.
> Fliers are only going to be produced by culturing flightless winged flies at temps above 87°F while in the larval stage or by introducing a wild fly.


I have co-cultured them myself, many years ago. It used to be done to help with early mold problems. The Melonos would keep the media stirred up until the Hydei could get a foothold.
I've also personally known other froggers who practiced co-culturing. I never experienced any cross breeding. I don't believe they can cross breed, at least not without some serious science intervening.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

I don't know this as a fact. I am just making a hypothesis. Even if it was genetically possible for them to hybridize, they may have different mating rituals, which would keep them from mating with each other.


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## Daoriginalmaze (Feb 16, 2014)

So this brings up another question I have...why do we hot put bakers yeast in with the hy cultures (according to joshed frogs). And by the way I did not know about coculturing and was going to try it but wasn't sure if I would get some weird flying species...


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## InvertaHerp (Mar 4, 2013)

The bakers yeast is there to help the flies digest the media better, afaik. You don't need it, but it can be useful. I don't use it, and my cultures do great


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Melano to melano or hydei to hydei can cross breed with each other,but not melano to hydei.If you breed any combo of;turkish gliders,wingless golden delicious or any melano to melano,they will all revert back to fliers.same with hydei.Don't do it unless you are quick at catching them as soon as you open the cup and piss off your wife


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Ok, I was wrong and I apologize.

Look at it from my end, you start a thread 
on hybrid frogs that gets locked, so a few
Hours later you start 2 threads on the same topic.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt that way.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Daoriginalmaze said:


> So this brings up another question I have...why do we hot put bakers yeast in with the hy cultures (according to joshed frogs). And by the way I did not know about coculturing and was going to try it but wasn't sure if I would get some weird flying species...



Sprinkling a TINY pinch of active (that means live) bakers yeast on top of your cultures is for one reason. The yeast is an aggressively growing, yet harmless organism. Encouraging yeast to get a foothold allows it to out compete organisms we do not want, such as molds and bacteria.
If somebody is stating to do it on Hydei, but not with Melonogaster, it's because Hydei are slower to get to the point where the churning of the media by the maggots, will help control molds and bacteria. (How's that for a run-on piece of ____ sentence? Fix it yourself.) 
The Hydei need all the help they can get, while the quicker producing Melonos do not need it.

Some people simply rely on live yeast being carried in on the feet of the seeder flies. Some people (myself included) think that adding the sprinkle anyway, may start fly production a day or two sooner than if you skipped it. Adding the sprinkle may also increase the life of the culture by a few days. (moot point if you rotate out and trash them at 30 days for mite control)

It truly annoys me when people state that the sprinkle of live yeast is to feed the adult flies. Really? That is utterly ridiculous. They are living on food! Their entire world is FOOD! Why would we need to add a sprinkle more? Why would it need to be a live culture? Why couldn't you just use brewer's yeast? The same brewer's yeast that you already put into the world of food that they live in.

edit: Invertaherp, I was not referring to your comment. That one at least makes some sense and could be plausible.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I use it in all my cultures for the exact reasons Doug pointed out.

Nicely put Doug,in a run on sort of way


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Sprinkling a TINY pinch of active (that means live) bakers yeast on top of your cultures is for one reason. The yeast is an aggressively growing, yet harmless organism. Encouraging yeast to get a foothold allows it to out compete organisms we do not want, such as molds and bacteria.


and two; it stimulates the flies to lay eggs earlier, because they use the presence of live yeast as cues for laying sites that will have good nutrition for the maggots.
Adult flies do feed on live yeast, but definitely not the reason(s) we add it.

The Yeasts: A Taxonomic Study - Google Books


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Reef_Haven said:


> and two; it stimulates the flies to lay eggs earlier, because they use the presence of live yeast as cues for laying sites that will have good nutrition for the maggots.
> Adult flies do feed on live yeast, but definitely not the reason(s) we add it.
> 
> The Yeasts: A Taxonomic Study - Google Books


Now that's interesting. The yeast creates pockets of rot, making it an attractive spot for egg laying, as the maggots hatch into the most liquified portion. This gives them best access to the most edible food.

Adults may feed on yeast, but it's not necessary when they live in food.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> Now that's interesting. The yeast creates pockets of rot,


In cacti.... I'm not sure it's the same in the species we culture. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

InvertaHerp said:


> The bakers yeast is there to help the flies digest the media better, afaik.


Not really.. see http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/33464-fruit-fly-media-experimentation.html#post298085 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed said:


> In cacti.... I'm not sure it's the same in the species we culture.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed



Thanks Ed, I wondered about that, but guess I wasn't curious enough to do more than scan it.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

So if they cannot breed what would happen if you co cultured D. hydei and D. melanogaster? Would this work if you had a small frog collection to just give your frogs some variety while lessening the work?


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## andestang (Oct 3, 2011)

Glad this was brought up because I had both D. hydei and D. melanogaster. My hydei a few cultures back all of a sudden seemed to turn into melano's(all in one batch, not over a couple) . While being small now the hatch time is still in line with being hydei's. So I was thinking that some melano's got in with the hydei's. So if it's not possible I wonder whats happened?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pubfiction said:


> So if they cannot breed what would happen if you co cultured D. hydei and D. melanogaster? Would this work if you had a small frog collection to just give your frogs some variety while lessening the work?


I cocultured for awhile (until I stopped using hydei altogether). In effect you get melanogaster until the hydei complete their life cycle. Where you can go wrong with coculturing is due to the life cycle of hydei. See here Drosophila hydei to see where you can go wrong. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

andestang said:


> Glad this was brought up because I had both D. hydei and D. melanogaster. My hydei a few cultures back all of a sudden seemed to turn into melano's(all in one batch, not over a couple) . While being small now the hatch time is still in line with being hydei's. So I was thinking that some melano's got in with the hydei's. So if it's not possible I wonder whats happened?


Environmental conditions can result in changes in size at emergence... Are you sure they aren't hydei? 

Some comments 

Ed


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## andestang (Oct 3, 2011)

this has been a tough winter for all kinds of things indoors like our plants and including my fly cultures. They just seem to be not producing as well. Anyways in one culture they are all of sudden way smaller but the hatch time frame seems to still be like Hydei's. I've never had this before. And a few batches later they are still small. I'll try and get a magnifying glass and check I guess.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

My gold hydei are about half the size they usually are.I don't put any heat on my cultures at all.They are all at room temperature.When the weather gets warmer and conditions are optimal ,they should go back to normal size.I'm sure Ed is correct as to why.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Pubfiction said:


> So if they cannot breed what would happen if you co cultured D. hydei and D. melanogaster? Would this work if you had a small frog collection to just give your frogs some variety while lessening the work?


Depending on your culturing conditions it could work, I suppose. I cocultured for a number of months and while it worked I ended up getting lighter yields from 2 cocultures than I would have from a single hydei and melano. I suspect it's because by the time you have to harvest the melano you can't help but remove some of the hydei earlier than optimum.

But again, culturing variables are everything.


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