# Darts At Petco



## Orlandoflor (Sep 27, 2013)

well during my lunch break today i went to petco do get a hide for one of my lizard and when i got there i noticed that they had 3 kinds of dart frog. they were a few months old i would guess. they were all together in same inclosure. i did not know they were carrying them now. i was suprised.

they had luecs for 24 as they were on sell and they had 2 more kinds as i dont know how to spell their names lol


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Yepp......this proves the end is near.........go figure.

I am actually not against pet store selling dart frogs, I welcome it. But petco has a hard time keeping hamsters, iguanas and leopard geckos alive.


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## cml1287 (Mar 29, 2012)

I've seen a few big box retailers with them here in WI. I chuckle though, one time they had juve azureus for $124.99.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

pdfCrazy said:


> Yepp......this proves the end is near.........go figure.
> 
> I am actually not against pet store selling dart frogs, I welcome it. But petco has a hard time keeping hamsters, iguanas and leopard geckos alive.


That may be true for some stores, but here in lakewood, we have an awesome staff! One employee in particular, Carlos, is exceptional with reptiles and has kept a wide variety of reptiles ranging from tokay geckos to venomous snakes. Honestly they are the best store I've visited. I have seen animals thriving for months on end (including young green tree pythons) and I recently purchased a king snake from them that had been there for almost a year. Their only limitation is the old and beat up housing.

Now, this is definetly NOT true for most stores, but I just thought it would be nice to let ya know hope is not all lost when an animal goes to petco


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## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

All I know is that the majority of the people that work at pet stores know next to nothing about taking care of animals and on top of that the managers which you would think would have a some sort of a background in "pet care" are just as bad if not worse sometimes. 

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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I noticed an ad on Kingsnake several times about 6-8 months ago looking for wholesale lots of Dart Frogs, it was from one of the big fish wholesalers I forget the name, maybe they were successful in getting them into the big chains using fish networks already established. With the lack of proper set up and care I fear a lot of these frogs are doomed and will most likely be short lived as I cant imagine they will invest what is needed to keep them alive and make any profit at that price. If they are selling them at that price how much is the wholesaler selling them at? and how much is the wholesaler buying them from breeders for? I cant imagine any Fogs coming from a breeder that cheap can be quality. I looked around and found the one looking for the wholesale Dart Frogs Segrest Farms was the name, looking at the website they are offering them but looks like not a lot as of now


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

myersboy6 said:


> All I know is that the majority of the people that work at pet stores know next to nothing about taking care of animals and on top of that the managers which you would think would have a some sort of a background in "pet care" are just as bad if not worse sometimes.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2


That`s a pretty bold statement young feller. 2 of my best friends work at pet stores and I would view them as pretty damn smart in their field. They actually turn down more sales because people just stroll in there knowing nothing about the animal they want to purchase.
No, they don`t work at Petco or Petsmart, and I have nothing against these stores.

John


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> That`s a pretty bold statement young feller. 2 of my best friends work at pet stores and I would view them as pretty damn smart in their field. They actually turn down more sales because people just stroll in there knowing nothing about the animal they want to purchase.
> No, they don`t work at Petco or Petsmart, and I have nothing against these stores.
> 
> John


As another young feller I would have to agree that most pet store peoples don't know enough about their livestock. Around these parts at least.

Anywho, I hope the staff at that petco can keep them alive at least!


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Did you ask any employees about the care for them? How bout how many you can put in a 10 gallon, or if you can put one of each color in there? I'm curious to know the answers they'd give.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> That`s a pretty bold statement young feller. 2 of my best friends work at pet stores and I would view them as pretty damn smart in their field. They actually turn down more sales because people just stroll in there knowing nothing about the animal they want to purchase.
> No, they don`t work at Petco or Petsmart, and I have nothing against these stores.
> 
> John


That's great John, we truly need more people like that in pet stores. Unfortunately, 2 people do not constitute "most". I've been in and out of more than a few pet stores, with my hobby choices, and with my former occupation of coral farmer. I have to agree that most pet stores do not hire, or train, qualified people.


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## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

I wasn't saying all of them are not educated about the animals just most. I have 2 friends that work there and they know nothing about half of the animals in the store and they tell me that there managers don't hardly even know anything either. Yes this is only 2 pet stores in my area but if that's the standard for 2 of the stores then the other probably are not far off. I have met a few people that do work at those big box stores that know a ton about the hobbies and those are the only ones I ever shop at. I just feel like there standards at those stores are very low sadly. 

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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I think petco can be decent. But its a case by case issue. They pay very little and as such a real enthusiasts will probably find he can make more money breeding or working on his own. But they certainly get a lot of people who love pets working in them and many times that translates to someone who is really way over qualified for the pay and does a pretty good job. 

Before you pass judgment let me ask you guys how many of you could rattle off the care for ANY animal from hundreds of species of fish, to multiple geckos, other reptiles, birds, etc and amphibians? If you did so do you think your answer would be acceptable to an enthusiast in the field of anyone animal? I couldn't do it I will say that. 

If they are lucky enough to keep these dart frogs alive I think if nothing else it will at least get a few people to internet search about them and end up here. Its good in the end.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

I support it if they can expand the hobby. But will they tell people not to create hybrids?

My biggest gripe about petco, and I worked there for a year or so in college, is selling the bullfrog tadpoles for $1.99. People buy them to morph and then let them go. Bullfrogs have decimated red Legged frog populations out here in CA.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

oldlady25715 said:


> I support it if they can expand the hobby. But will they tell people not to create hybrids?
> 
> My biggest gripe about petco, and I worked there for a year or so in college, is selling the bullfrog tadpoles for $1.99. People but them to morph and then let them go. Bullfrogs have decimated red Legged frog populations out here in CA.


Major respected pet stores that are not large chains are doing this and zoos are mixing. The best thing you could do is go to said petco and give them an offer in good will that you will type up a basic informational sheet about frog care. They can print it or make it available to customers. They may or may not go with it.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Petco makes their own caresheets for the animals.

I would be interesting in knowing which other pet stores are producing hybrid dartfrogs. Care to enlighten me?


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Who said Petco was producing hybrids?

John


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## Orlandoflor (Sep 27, 2013)

ok when i went in there. there were 5 frogs i will say species 1 ,2 and 3. as i dont know how to spell their names and im lazy to google it lol.

they had 2 of species 1.
2 of species 2 and 1 of species 3. they had them in like a 10 gallon maybe smaller enclosure how they have all their reptiles and stuff. first thing i noticed is that there were large crickets in there with them. 

while looking at them another customer asked the employee if they really are toxic to the touch and he said they they can really make you sick if you have an open cut on your hand when you are holding them. 

i then said that i was interested in one and that i have some at home already. he then told me that do not put them together if they are not the same kind.

i then asked another employee there of what do they feed them. he then said fruit flies and showed me a container of them. 

i then left after that.

they looked nice and fat but they just got there a few days before so hopefully they stay like that


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Orlando, I'm curius if your a petco employee trying to drum up some interest, or feel out the market for selling darts in petco? You dont seem to have any knowledge on darts, know their names, yet you have some at home??


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Orlandoflor said:


> first thing i noticed is that there were large crickets in there with them.
> 
> while looking at them another customer asked the employee if they really are toxic to the touch and he said they they can really make you sick if you have an open cut on your hand when you are holding them.


The only thing that gets me worried so far is the "large" crickets. Hope they don't decide to much on the frogs...

The employee's advice about getting sick is actually pretty sound. Herps are known to carry salmonella, which can make you sick. And who knows what other types of pathogens that you would not want getting into an open cut


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## Orlandoflor (Sep 27, 2013)

well yeah i have some my self and i have done much research lol. but i do not have the ones they had on for sale. and i do know what they had for sale i just do not know how to correctly spell those names so i did not put them lol.

now with google help of spelling and copy/past lol they had.


leucomelas 

Azureus

auratus


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

What is the point of this thread?


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

the same as most threads


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Has anyone else put this thread together with the Dart Frog Warehouse thread? Segrest is looking for wholesale dart frogs. DFW has a lot of frogs to unload at crazy low prices. Doesn't Segrest sell to Petco?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

phender said:


> Has anyone else put this thread together with the Dart Frog Warehouse thread? Segrest is looking for wholesale dart frogs. DFW has a lot of frogs to unload at crazy low prices. Doesn't Segrest sell to Petco?


EXACTLY what I was thinking


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## mfsidore (Oct 10, 2012)

What do you guys think about the health of the frogs at petco... Don't you think an experienced seller knows more about the health?


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

mfsidore said:


> What do you guys think about the health of the frogs at petco... Don't you think an experienced seller knows more about the health?


No, because I have seen frogs available at shows that are extremely tiny (maybe a week or two out of the water) or unhealthy (skin-and-bones) and all still being sold for top dollar. It used to be that these instances would be few and far between at shows, but as the popularity of Dendrobatids has increased, and more people are entering the hobby from the herp hobby 'at large,' it's becoming much more common. Is it better to purchase a sub-par frog from a hobbyist over a healthy one from a big box store?

Also, as long as hobbyists insist on max production with their animals and collections (i.e. breeding them as often and producing as many offspring as possible) then I think more people actually SHOULD consider offloading their excess frogs to places like Petco, mom-and-pop shops, etc.


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

skylsdale said:


> Also, as long as hobbyists insist on max production with their animals and collections (i.e. breeding them as often and producing as many offspring as possible) then I think more people actually SHOULD consider offloading their excess frogs to places like Petco, mom-and-pop shops, etc.


I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that every pet store I have ever been to that had dart frogs had no idea how to take care of them. About six months ago, one of the places actually told me about a "pro breeder" from Tennessee who is "relatively new but a great breeder" that was making "really cool hybrid morphs"...

I actually didn't see the connection there until I started making this post. Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

look up a few posts, several of us are thinking the same thing


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## cml1287 (Mar 29, 2012)

Firawen said:


> I would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that every pet store I have ever been to that had dart frogs had no idea how to take care of them. About six months ago, one of the places actually told me about a "pro breeder" from Tennessee who is "relatively new but a great breeder" that was making "really cool hybrid morphs"...
> 
> I actually didn't see the connection there until I started making this post. Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


boy, wouldn't that be something if DFW was providing brick and mortar stores with hybrids long before they posted here.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Who wants to call Petco Corporate? 1 2 3 Not it.


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

oldlady25715 said:


> Who wants to call Petco Corporate? 1 2 3 Not it.


I dont think that would accomplish anything. It would be like "thanks for the advice we'll let someone know"

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## JayMillz (Jun 27, 2012)

I haven't read the entire thread, but I think those big stores will take animals in like that from people for free for adoption. Maybe adoption there means to throw a price tag on to pay for setting up a tank and feeding it until it sells so they aren't losing $. They could have been rescue frogs.


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## Mantella71 (Oct 7, 2013)

I know from experience that Petco and Petsmart only buy captive bred herps from a very small list of approved vendors. Dart frogs should not be sold to the "general public" in my humble opinion and should not be mass marketed. Unfortunately there will always be certain people chasing the almighty dollar and trying to create or hype the next big thing or trend. Once a herper, always a herper I say. My wife says I'll be killed stopping traffic to save a turtle, snake or frog. Oh well I say. At least I saved one of my little buddies. Sorry about the rant but I get ticked off people misconstruing animals/environmental issues when they have no clue.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Mantella71 said:


> Dart frogs should not be sold to the "general public" in my humble opinion and should not be mass marketed.


They already are...and have been for years. Why do you think enclosures such as the ExoTerra and ZooMed terrariums were designed? Why do you think Petcos across the country now have fruit flies in stock? It's not to feed their anoles or red-tailed boas. 



> Unfortunately there will always be certain people chasing the almighty dollar and trying to create or hype the next big thing or trend.


This is not something that exists _outside_ the hobby: it is very prevalent within it, and always has been. How many threads pop up with each new import talking about the latest frogs that came in and who has them? How many hobbyists immediately start up their own online "businesses" to sell an animal they've barely had 6 months worth of experience keeping? It's all over in this hobby.



> Sorry about the rant but I get ticked off people misconstruing animals/environmental issues when they have no clue.


I guess I don't quite understand this last statement: what environmental issues were brought up?


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## Mantella71 (Oct 7, 2013)

They already are...and have been for years. Why do you think enclosures such as the ExoTerra and ZooMed terrariums were designed? Why do you think Petcos across the country now have fruit flies in stock? It's not to feed their anoles or red-tailed boas. 

Oh I agree with you to a certain extent but just because money can be made from an animal does not mean that it's morally okay. Terrariums can be used to house a plethora of different herps, not just dart frogs. On the same token, fruit flies can be fed to many different herps, especially smaller recently hatched pygmy chameleons, geckos, morphed smaller treefrogs and salamanders to just name a few. Truth is most experienced herpers do not rely on these "box stores" for animals, feeders or knowledge. I believe everyone on this site has an obligation to disseminate knowledge and experience to the best of their ability. I just wish people would stop chasing the next big thing or species (morph). Of course there will always be greedy individuals in any aspect of life. I just recently got back into keeping dart frogs after a long break due to multiple surgeries after the past 10 years. I am amazed and proud to say that most of the posts and people here are seriously dedicated to the welfare of their animals and all that goes along with keeping them. Sorry about the last statement since no environmental issues were brought up on this post. I just get upset that so many "well concerned" individuals are ignorant and misinformed about animals in captivity and the environment in general. Again sorry for the long ramblings and I'm not trying to open a whole other can of worms on environmental issues. 






Quote:
Sorry about the rant but I get ticked off people misconstruing animals/environmental issues when they have no clue. 

I guess I don't quite understand this last statement: what environmental issues were brought up?


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

I sent petco an email lamenting hybrids. I'm hoping it will get forwarded straight to the top!

Here is the link to comment on new or potential products:
Contact Products

And I was going to paste here what I wrote, for others to copy and edit and paste, but I lost it when I pasted the link above. Dough! I basically drew a correlation to purebreds and mutts and that a hobbyist who purchases hybrid frogs, even if its trademarked, will realize it is worthless and confusing to the hobby, if they continue with the hobby. This will create resentment and consternation toward from whom they purchased the frogs.They're not like ball pythons and leopard geckos. Etc


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

lol Just to be clear I never said Petco was making or buying hybrids I said I know of other pet stores that were doing it or at least selling them as well as mixing tanks. And of course we all know zoos do it based on past threads. My petco does not carry anything but pacman frogs that I know of.

And I disagree that PDFs should not be sold to the general public in fact I think with the knowledge we now have they are one of the easier animals to take care of at a basic level. If the general public actually got into them we might see availability of fruit flies increase to the point where you would not even need to raise your own you could just buy them. You know most people don't breed their own crickets right? They just buy them once a month or so. Tons of people spend more than $10 / month on other pet foods like dog food, it seems totally reasonable that fruit fly cultures sold in petco or pet smart could be a stocked and regularly rotated item to the point where a person who was OK with spending the money would never need to culture them.


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## Mantella71 (Oct 7, 2013)

_
And I disagree that PDFs should not be sold to the general public in fact I think with the knowledge we now have they are one of the easier animals to take care of at a basic level. If the general public actually got into them we might see availability of fruit flies increase to the point where you would not even need to raise your own you could just buy them. You know most people don't breed their own crickets right? They just buy them once a month or so. Tons of people spend more than $10 / month on other pet foods like dog food, it seems totally reasonable that fruit fly cultures sold in petco or pet smart could be a stocked and regularly rotated item to the point where a person who was OK with spending the money would never need to culture them_. 

Sorry but I disagree with the statement that PDF's are "easier animals" to take care of. This statement would be true if someone takes the time to keep certain species of frogs that really are "easy". I believe everyone has a learning curve and everyone starts off as a novice. Please remember these animals are living and breathing gifts of nature. If someone is truly interested in keeping frogs in any capacity then please guide them in the right direction. Frogs, especially poison dart frogs, are not really pets per se. It does not matter how much or little someone spends in a pet store to feed their frogs. I can go to the grocery store and spend under 10 dollars to make 25 fruit fly cultures. Why keep spending money, and making these stores profit over other peoples ignorance? Keeping dart frogs or any other herp is another way not to confirm to the cookie cutter way of the looking at the world. Why let the corporations try to sneak their way into a beautiful and esoteric group of individuals that truly love these amazing animals! Us, froggers/herpers are cut from a different cloth for a reason. Let's keep it that way 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Mantella71 said:


> Sorry but I disagree with the statement that PDF's are "easier animals" to take care of. This statement would be true if someone takes the time to keep certain species of frogs that really are "easy". I believe everyone has a learning curve and everyone starts off as a novice. Please remember these animals are living and breathing gifts of nature. If someone is truly interested in keeping frogs in any capacity then please guide them in the right direction. Frogs, especially poison dart frogs, are not really pets per se. It does not matter how much or little someone spends in a pet store to feed their frogs. I can go to the grocery store and spend under 10 dollars to make 25 fruit fly cultures. Why keep spending money, and making these stores profit over other peoples ignorance? Keeping dart frogs or any other herp is another way not to confirm to the cookie cutter way of the looking at the world. Why let the corporations try to sneak their way into a beautiful and esoteric group of individuals that truly love these amazing animals! Us, froggers/herpers are cut from a different cloth for a reason. Let's keep it that way
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well speak for yourself widening the hobby user base would solve a lot of our problems.


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## Mantella71 (Oct 7, 2013)

_Well speak for yourself widening the hobby user base would solve a lot of our problems. _


Oh I agree with you but the problem is that it takes time and experience. I have been keeping and dealing w/herps for over 25 years. The 1 thing I have learned is that the more I think I know the less I know. There is always more to learn and keeping an open mind definitely helps. I hope more and more people get involved with PDF's. Sadly there is no easy way to solve the issues in our hobby. I am speaking for myself and these are just issues I see arise time and time again. I believe anyone who keeps any kind of animal shares a bond that many people can't comprehend. Don't mean to get too deep but sadly most people are just robots and sheep. (didn't mean to rhyme, sounded cheesy enough , tired and rambling)


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Pubfiction said:


> Well speak for yourself widening the hobby user base would solve a lot of our problems.


I disagree...but don't have the time to go into this now. As far as being able to just buy fruit flies--that's been possible for many years. You can do so online (Fruit Fly Co's "Monthly Meat" program has been around for the better part of a decade, if not more) and many stores carry their flies right along side cups of crickets.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Got my response from Patco...As expected it says nothing...

"Dear Aaron,
I hope you are having a great day!

Thank you for your email. Your concerns have been noted and we appreciate you taking the time to express your thoughts and your feedback. By letting us know when we fall short on your expectations, it makes it easier for us to meet them the next time you come see us. If we can ever be of assistance or answer any questions, please contact us again.
Thank you for your inquiry. Please contact us again if you need any further assistance.
Sincerely,
Raquel V.
Customer Relations Coordinator

Healthier Pets. Happier People. Better World.
----------------------------------Original Message-----------------------------------

Messageear Petco, 

I am an avid dart frog enthusiast and appreciate that you carry fruit flies. It has recently come to my attention that some of your stores may be selling dart frogs. While I encourage more dart frog hobbyists to join me in this passion, I must strongly discourage you from selling hybrid dart frogs. Nature created a myriad of strikingly colored dart frogs based on where they are from in the rain forest.These frogs are akin to purebred dogs; however, mixing these different locales and creating frog "mutts" will cause confusion in the hobby. Dart frogs are not like leopard geckos and ball pythons in the respect that line breeding for phenotype traits makes them more desirable. 

I am sending this message because it has come to my attention that someone has possibly bred thousands of these hybrid frogs and is pursuing avenues to get them into your stores. These interests even think that by trademarking them they will be well received. 

While some hobbyists may purchase hybrid dart frogs, if they stay in the hobby, they will soon discover the frogs are of no value to fellow hobbyists. This will promulgate resentment toward the source of these frogs, which would be you. 

I encourage you to sell traditional lines of dart frogs if you determine that your stores can support these special creatures, but kindly please refrain from selling hybrids. 

Thanks,"


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

skylsdale said:


> They already are...and have been for years. Why do you think enclosures such as the ExoTerra and ZooMed terrariums were designed?


 Ha! Dart frogs are such a small percentage of the animals that are in ZooMed and ExoTerra terrarims. Less than 1% is my best guess, it's probably a tenth of that. Neither of those terrariums work with dart frogs without modifications. If they wanted to capture the dart frog market, they could have an option which would include a plastic tray/screen for the false bottom and a top that is glass except for an inch or two at the front and it would be no-see umm mesh.

The dart frog hobby will not have any significant growth until pet shops can sell a "set-up" that works well, right out of the box. Without that, it's too much DIY for the average guy. They don't want to do the work.



skylsdale said:


> Why do you think Petcos across the country now have fruit flies in stock? It's not to feed their anoles or red-tailed boas.


 Again, I think you are having delusions of dart frog grandeur.  I was at a Petco the other day. What frogs and toads did they have? Just White's Tree Frog and Fire Belly Toads. NO dart frogs. 

If Petco decided to carry dart frogs, the guy who makes that decision is going against all financial logic. I don't see it happening, although it is possible. Just unlikely.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

I'm not saying that Dendrobatid keeping is 'up to snuff' with everything else...I'm saying it's getting bigger, and the keeping of them is influencing some of what is being produced and made available. They are still a tiny aspect of the herp trade, but they are increasing.

Also, you can't just use the U.S. to gauge their popularity and impact: Europe and Japan are the massive markets for Dendrobatids right now, and the Japanese are willing to pay handsomely for them.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I would imagine that FFs were initially ofered for small geckos and chameleons.

ALTHOUGH Petco even carries springtails now, and I don't know what those would be for

EDIT:

site says "Great supplemental food for your froglets, baby geckos or spiderlings"


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

hypostatic said:


> I would imagine that FFs were initially ofered for small geckos and chameleons.
> 
> ALTHOUGH Petco even carries springtails now, and I don't know what those would be for
> 
> ...


The PetCo near me used to have bumblebee toads with some frequency. They were WC from a local pet wholesaler and usually beat up. I guess those eat FFs though.

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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

dropped by petco the other day to see if they had any darts.. just an empty unit with "mantella" So... the end is nearing. lol


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Former Petco employee here. Worked there off and on for 3 years during college. And I can not possibly have any less respect for Petco than I do.

To the guys who cry, Oh well MY store isn't like that. Yes. It is. It just hasn't been caught yet. And when it does, they will clean house of the employees who dared deviate from the corporate plan, and bring back their cookie-cutter cage setups. I know, because this is what happened to the store I worked at. I chose to work at Petco because I loved the store in Corpus Christi. Its fish/herp department was AWESOME! Corals I've only ever seen there. All kinds of gecko and frog species. It was great. And whats more, it was PROFITABLE. As in, the most profitable fish/herp sales of all the stores nation-wide. I moved up to San Antonio for the summer and began working at a Petco up here all so I could then transfer down to the Corpus Store in the fall for college. I was hired in SA to help them build and design their reptile department for a new store being built. I was told I was to design their reptile department and build their cages for a wide array of herps. Or at least that's what they told me.

In reality I was just another cog in the corporate machine not allowed to deviate from any of the "plan-o-grams" (corporate blueprints). I had zero control over purchasing animals, zero control over how to design the cages, zero control of what products were to be used in the mass produced electronic fiberglass faux rock rack systems. Every single thing, down to how the "Bed-A-Beast" was to slope from the front to the back and the "Exo-Terra Twist-Vine" was to be at this location, and this name brand product here, and this product there. The entire department and caging was, is, and forever will be, designed to showcase DRY GOODS. The cages are designed solely for the purpose of the employee to say, "see this cage, you buy this stuff, and that's what you need". No other reason. And unless an employee takes it upon himself, like I did, and modify or redesign the system, their rack systems kill animals. Because it was never designed FOR them. (BTW if you're the company who makes those and you see this, yea, you guys suck.) My mods were subsequently removed at my GM's orders because it deviated from the corporate plan despite most not being visible to the public and just involving proper heat/air/moisture regulation.

At the end of summer I transferred down to the Corpus store and there was an almost entirely different staff. Corporate had come in and cleaned house over the summer. Their most profitable fish/reptile store in the nation, had become so, by two employees taking the initiative to redesign their aquatic systems over to saltwater, rebuild their rack cages to actually keep living animals, and was selling hundreds of thousands a month in stock. (Yea, that much. Animal orders came in daily.) But it wasn't to the corporate mold. So they fired almost everybody involved and took it back to the plan-o-grams. Insane right?! What business would DO that?! (The fish guy went on to build a business just down from Petco and competed with them. Great guy.)

But this idea of showcasing and selling dry goods instead of animal welfare was generated in a large room, with people in suits sitting around a desk, who have never held a snake or kept a dart frog or otherwise been, in any way, involved with reptiles. They sat around and said, "Hey this model works for selling groceries at the store, so lets just extend that logic to keeping reptiles". And as long as you purchase their dry goods, they will continue, because their plan worked. See also: the fish section. 

And the result is their mortality rate is insane. Across the board. I transferred to 3 different stores. Each had the same indifferent, underpaid, treated like garbage employees. Each had the same reptile department "plan-o-gram", each had people who wanted to make changes but who's hands were tied by the omnipresent "corporate". Each one had a middle-aged+ GM who wanted to be something more with his life but never amounted to it, hated his job, hated his coworkers, and did the bare minimum work because there was no mobility for him. And even if there was any, it wasn't going to happen by pissing off "corporate" when they inspected and found things not to their ever so thought out plan. "Oh, so THIS is why you have a 50% mortality! See?! You're not to plan-o-gram!" *to be read in voice of boisterous pompous aristocrat* 

They have zero business selling reptiles or saltwater fish and it's laughable at the thought of something like darts. Dry goods are one thing, but when the system is designed intentionally from the ground up to treat living objects as if they have indefinite shelf life like their infernal, mass produced, roto-cast plastic, made-in-china "cage accents", its not going to work, and the animals and the hobby suffer. When the employees who want to make positive change, are not allowed to, the animals and hobby will suffer. When contracted companies who design their rack cages make useless pieces of crap, the animals and hobby will suffer.

I would urge each and every person to only support them with a sale when it's a dire emergency for your animal at home, OR their $1/gallon sale. (They lose money on that sale if you just buy the aquarium.) They only listen to $. And even then, not in the Corpus Christi store case, so don't support it. Let them go the way of Pets.com and that stupid sock puppet dog and be an ill missed relic of the past.

And if, for some crazy reason, MY business were to ever take off sufficiently such that I could produce enough of my dry goods to fulfill orders of the magnitude of Petco, and they ever asked, I'd tell them to go suck a big floppy donkey .... . Money should NEVER be before morality, all the more so when animals are involved. OK rant over. 




TLDR: PETCO SUCKS DONKEY @#$% .


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

So I just found out a local Petco near me has started selling Dart Frogs. As far as I know this is the first time these have been sold in CT, Legally anyway.
When I have a chance I`ll do a covert undercover operation with Seal Team 6 and report back to you ASAP.

John


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Ok, between work and getting buried in snow yesterday I haven`t checked out that Petco yet, but a friend did. Pretty sad according to him, Eco-Earth, plastic plants and bone dry with crickets running around all over the place. He also said the frogs were REALLY young. 
Now I wasn`t expecting one our lushly planted tanks with leaf litter, iso`s, broms and the works, but I guess I was hoping for just a little better.

John


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## PumilioTurkey (Feb 25, 2010)

Well...just as I'd expect from a pet store chain with profit on their mind and quarterly revenue targets to fullfill.


it's basically the same over here.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Why not just take a picture so we can all see.


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