# ANTS in the main tank!?!?!



## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

hey everyone, i have a problem ha my frogs are still in quarentine so they aernt in the main tank yet but there is a small infestation of ants in my tank! someone told me that native ants from up north here in ohio could sting the frogs? they are only these small little ants people from up around here find in their houses and stuff but i wasnt sure? Im pretty sure there isnt a queen so i dont think there is a colony i think they are getting in thru the small ventilation holes and i noticed some crawling on the outside of my tank. should i get rid of these or should i just wait till i put the frogs in there and let them eat them? any suggestions about what to do???


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## cskeeba (Apr 3, 2010)

If there are no frogs in your tank you could seal it up with plastic wrap and use dry ice to gas the ants. The CO2 will kill any bugs you have in there, such as springtails but you can always reseed them. The plants love the CO2 so there is not a problem with that. Another method is to try and kill them with cornmeal. They pick it up and eat it then explode when it swells in their guts  this will mold in the tank but sprintails do a great job of cleaning that up. I have horrible problems with ants. They are odorus house ants so the frogs won't eat them very well as they taste bad (my day gecko seems to love them though).


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

I have ant troubles during the summer as well. Last year I made the mistake of putting out bait traps and lost my group of auratus within a few days. Any tips for frog-safe ant control methods would be greatly appreciated.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've use traps with the same active ingredients as Kill ants quick - Combat® Ant Products: Liquid Ant Bait on the outside of dendrobatid tanks to control pharoh ants. (I've also used this type of trap in cages with larger animals with good effect, I just wrapped it in coarse screen to keep the crickets out). 

Ed


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> I've use traps with the same active ingredients as Kill ants quick - Combat® Ant Products: Liquid Ant Bait on the outside of dendrobatid tanks to control pharoh ants. (I've also used this type of trap in cages with larger animals with good effect, I just wrapped it in coarse screen to keep the crickets out).
> 
> Ed


There is no danger to the frogs from eating it? I am pretty gun shy after my last experience, though I don't remember which brand I used.


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## Topete (Sep 27, 2009)

we had an infestation problem at work and a lady told us to place sugar cubes... after 1 or 2 days they pile onto the cube and suddenly by the 3 to 5th day they are gone.

She told us that the sugar makes them sterile or something... didn't put attention to what she said None the less It worked and we have used it for 5 years now.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

I would co2 bomb it 100% safe and it will make your plants grow aton


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

vivbulider said:


> I would co2 bomb it 100% safe and it will make your plants grow aton


The problem is that they come from outside. I could kill every ant in an enclosure and more will show up within 15 minutes.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Tony said:


> The problem is that they come from outside. I could kill every ant in an enclosure and more will show up within 15 minutes.


um...ant proof the tank???


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I had the same problem last year. I removed the frogs pulled out all of the substrate and CO'2 with dry ice. I also bought some "Amdro" Outside barrier ant killer and spread it all around the exterior of my house.
Worked well.
Good Luck!
-Beth


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Tony said:


> There is no danger to the frogs from eating it? I am pretty gun shy after my last experience, though I don't remember which brand I used.


If it is outside the tank the frogs don't tend to eat it... Also pharoh ants are pretty unpalatable to the frogs from what I've seen.

Ed


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> If it is outside the tank the frogs don't tend to eat it... Also pharoh ants are pretty unpalatable to the frogs from what I've seen.
> 
> Ed


Whatever the ants are that I have a problem with are palatable to the frogs. The ants carried the bait into the tanks, the frogs ate the ants carrying the bait, and my auratus that I had at the time all crashed and died within a few days of the traps being put out.

Would treating the room's perimeter with a permethrin spray be safe? I treated my leopard gecko rack (the rack itself, not the individual tubs) with provent-a-mite spray and have not had an ant problem in there since.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

What about putting something tastier outside the tank? Maybe a bowl of sugar or whatever gets ants excited. Start from there to get the ants out of the tank, and then work on removing them from the room/house.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Tony,

We use it because the borate based insecticides normally have a very high LD50 in many vertebrates (The MSDS is here http://combatbugs.com/msds/Combat Liquid Ant Bait.pdf) and a more complete one for the active ingredient http://www.co.thurston.wa.us/health... actives/Disodium octaborate tetrahydrate.pdf 
Look at the LD50 for fish and mammals. It is pretty high which indicates a pretty fair margin of safety if it does make its way into the animal. 

The bait traps you used before, was the active ingredient disodium octaborate tetrahydrate ?

Ed


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> The bait traps you used before, was the active ingredient disodium octaborate tetrahydrate ?


I don't remember what the active ingredient was, just that it was a type designed to be carried back to the nest.


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## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

so i shouldnt use sprays? i put a bowl of sugar water on the top now and many are going in it but im just fearing that it might be attracting more ants from outside?


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## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

and i found where the ants are getting into my house, could i spray there?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I would put the sugar somewhere away from the tank, to draw the ants out and to intercept the incoming ants. I don't know. I've never actually tried it.


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## ZeeMan (Sep 19, 2008)

I might be wrong... from what I understand... scout ants leave a trail to and from the site of interest. The rest of the worker ants follow that trail to bring back the food.

Perhaps you can find the path they take, and use a disinfectant remove the chemical markers... once you see them roam, that path should be gone. Then perhaps you can entice them somewhere else where you can deal with them without fear of contamination of your tank. 

Edit: I have done this when I was cruel child... I would take a dead feeder goldfish and let the ants make their way over, then destroy the trail.... never knew if the ants made it back cuz I lost interest by then.

What also might help in addition to the above is to move your tank (if it is not too heavy).

If you are trying to seed microfauna, the ants are just helping them to a buffet.
I lost a huge springtail culture that way.

Hope this helps

Zee


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## lilherp25 (Mar 29, 2010)

could i just spray some ant spray after i disinfect the area? to make sure they dont come back? its about 3 feet away from the actual tank but i want sure if the ants might somehow bring the toxin back to the tank?


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I found where mine were coming in (under a door threshold) and siliconed the openings. That kept them from continuing to come in the house.

-Beth


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

lilherp25 said:


> could i just spray some ant spray after i disinfect the area? to make sure they dont come back? its about 3 feet away from the actual tank but i want sure if the ants might somehow bring the toxin back to the tank?


This does not prevent scouts from rediscovering the tank etc. It may take them a couple of days but it will happen. 

The original post was about what to do about ants already in the enclosure. 

Ed


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Ed what about DE?
We use it for our pool and have friends tell us it works great on killing ants.


-Beth


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Diatemaceous earth (DE) is a physical insectide. Its method of action is by abrading the cuticle of the invertebrate and causing death by dehydration. This means that you have to have an area where the insects will crawl through the DE. Its method of action is the same as borax.

It can work as a control in small scale but it has to be able to be placed where it won't be disturbed as disturbance of the DE will reduce its effectiveness. 

Ed


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Thanks Ed.
Very interesting.
-Beth


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

From experience you need to get rid of the ants. Either use CO2 or break the tank down and start again. You can't put frogs in the tank till you get rid of the ants. 

Best,

Chuck


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## clapton9286 (Jul 27, 2010)

I know this is old, but I had some ants convening around my tank (prolly for some FF's that got out of the cup). I put some black pepper around it, and they haven't been back since.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

It isn't always necessary to break a tank down or even treat with co2. I've had my tanks repeatedly infested especially this year since I forgot to take the usual precautions before the ants really got active. But I've found once the work and travel distance they have to endure to squeeze resources from the tank gets to not really be worth it for them they move on or out often completely. Basically with insecticides, cleaning and removing other food or building materials as much as possible sometimes you can basically just make it not worth it for the ants to stick around. 

The problem is though it isn't a fast solution and you have to limit the damage they do in the mean time as much as possible by moving frogs to other untouched or less infested tanks, moving entire tanks, keeping froglets safe, using insecticides and other physical or chemical deterrents while you remove as many resources and items of temptation for them as possible. Its a multi pronged approach  For me though I will remove frogs and use a temp viv if I have to before I'll tear down an established viv, especially a larger one or even go through the hassle and questionably effective CO2 approach (at least for ants). So far I haven't had to do either or had any frog/animal losses from ants except for a few darklands froglets a few years back while I was away for a weekend (No ants till that weekend  )

I've also noticed the ones I get tend to avoid extremely wet, or dry tanks for the most part, so if your plants can survive a little flooding or drought in the short term or you are willing to remove them, thats another weapon that may be worth adding to your arsenal. Can also set small vivs in trays of water or on cloths soaked with poisons if you are careful not to transmit the poisons to the tank. A wood stand sprayed down seems to keep them at bay longer then a metal or plastic one also. Beware the power cords for lights, ants will find them and use them to travel past toxic areas to get into the tank. Can wrap them in cloth and soak with poison periodically also (keep away from pets).

Nothing is a better weapon then prevention of course.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Borax is a natural pesticide. works great.


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## clapton9286 (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm also using a glue board and some vinegar/water spray on the bookshelf I keep the container. I should be ok...hopefully. If not, then I'm going to move him from that room and I'll just nuke it and return him a few months later.


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## ivas (Jan 24, 2009)

Why can't you just seal the tank? Unless I am missing the big picture, I don't think there is any way ants can get into my vivs, as I run a bead of silicone around the tops. Again, I might be misunderstood, but if wingless melanogaster flies can't get out, how do ants get in?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

ivas said:


> Why can't you just seal the tank? Unless I am missing the big picture, I don't think there is any way ants can get into my vivs, as I run a bead of silicone around the tops. Again, I might be misunderstood, but if wingless melanogaster flies can't get out, how do ants get in?


Do you reseal it every time you feed? It may work on some setups...but siliconing the edges may introduce fumes that could be harmful if its done in excess quantity.


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## ivas (Jan 24, 2009)

Dendro Dave said:


> Do you reseal it every time you feed? It may work on some setups...but siliconing the edges may introduce fumes that could be harmful if its done in excess quantity.


No no, I silicone the top in place after the viv is built, and weeks before animals are introduced. But the hinged part that I open to feed fits tightly against the black plastic lip on the top of the tank; this is enough to ff-proof the tanks.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

It's much more difficult to ant-proof a front opening viv. Ants will push themselves through openings that ff don't seem to.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

ivas said:


> No no, I silicone the top in place after the viv is built, and weeks before animals are introduced. But the hinged part that I open to feed fits tightly against the black plastic lip on the top of the tank; this is enough to ff-proof the tanks.


Ok I got ya, and thats what I figured. Just thought clarification may be good. I can totally see some noob resealing his viv everytime he feeds


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## Jarhead_2016 (Jan 7, 2010)

My Simple Solution to ants...

Items needed
Sugar water dissolve as much sugar in the water as possible
Tupperware container

procedure: let the water evaporate from the tupperware container and boom instant ant trap ants get stuck and cant get off of the sugar hahah just like a roll of fly paper 

-scotty


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