# Viv projects begin!!



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I previously posted this in the beginner forum, but thanks to the helpful people here on dendroboard I've got some knowledge and think it's time to get started on these!

So here's what I've gathered so far.. 










































































I still need a few things to really get started, but I've began to work on the false bottoms tonight. Tomorrow I should have 3 done. After that happens, I plan on going driftwood hunting in hopes of finding some nice pieces and maybe saving some money. 

This has probably been asked before, but if I find moss in the woods can it be used in the viv? I know a few companies sell "woodland moss" so I'm assuming I could use what I found? Trout season is close in Pennsylvania, so that means trips to the mountains full of moss will shortly be arriving. 
If anyone has any info on this please let me know!


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Couple of comments.

First, just to make sure you know, that Exo Terra "Coco Husk" isn't going to be the fine-grained coco fiber, but they're going to be large bark chunks. It's still okay to use, but I avoid it because I prefer the look of fine-graind coco fiber on my hardscaping.

It looks like at least most of your plants (I don't know because I haven't worked with them all) will thrive in the vivs, but you should look at getting some broad leafed plants as well. Broad leafed philodendron, upward growing pepperomia and pothos would be a good start. 

I've never found using collected moss to be beneficial. Temperate moss is seasonal and even in the vivariums will die after some months. I don't know that it would hurt anything, though, if collected from a place that is sure to be free from pesticides. Might get lucky and introduce some interesting microfauna to your viv.... Might get unlucky and introduce a large snail population to your viv. It's really a judgement call.

Good luck with everything!

(By the way, love the hex tank. Perfect for thumbnails somewhere down the road!)


----------



## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Looks like your about to undergo a lot of projects. Take a trip to a bunch of your local nurseries and see what you can find that way plant wise. You'll be glad you did. Your HD/walmart plants there are fine and all but you can do better than that if you look around. You owe it to yourself as you've spent quite a lot already on everything as it looks.

I use only personally collected moss species in all my setups that I both sell and use. I have never had a single complaint or personal issue from using wild moss. Now, there are risks by doing this. I admit. But your options are limited. Getting a guaranteed quality that is packaged and cared for by yourself, or trust that the mail or the shipper doesn't screw up. I've dealt with a few guys both on this board and big well known names in the trade that sell "live moss". With the exception of a few guys on ebay, I've been unimpressed. So if you have the availability to collect your own, do it! Just be sure to put them into gallon plus clear baggies with no water, and flat with the soil side down in a single layer. This way it can get light and the water won't rot everything and smell like... I don't know, nothing quite smells like rotting moss really... The wet moss will have enough moisture to keep itself going for quite a while, especially if kept indoors and cool. Good idea to let the bags breath at least once a week too.

Lots of guys will be fearful of the bugs/diseases that the native mosses/soil can tag along. The nasty chichrid (sp?) fungus being one of those, but there are ways to reduce this. For bugs you can c02 gas your moss. Search that on this board for helpful hints on that. And there is always using a VERY dilute bleach solution to wash them. But again, that’s if your super paranoid. I don't have an expensive enough of a collection to worry about it, and so far have had no issues other than I feed less as the tag-alongs tend to become food.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I was wondering if anyone has ever used this light by chance? 
Lithonia Lighting 4 Ft. T8 Black Steel Shoplight - 1275B at The Home Depot

I haven't got a chance to go to home depot to check out their selection, but tomorrow I'm going to since I need more eggcrate and silicone to get more accomplished. 

Since that is a dual bulb fixture, does that mean you can have one on independently? Also could two different bulbs be used to control the temperature better? 

I got some wood today but didn't get around to taking pictures of it. False bottoms are rather time consuming.. 

I'll post some pictures of those tomorrow also.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I was wondering if anyone else has noticed the same thing I have.. 
Do you make a complete mess of almost an entire room with stuff still in other rooms while trying to get your viv started? (This doesn't include plants being elsewhere)

I was just gonna upload these tomorrow, but I'm bored so I figured why not. 
There's some better ones than what I got last night..
I still have to get some shots of my driftwood I found today.











































































I originally planned on using the water dish where that portion of eggcrate it separated, well that didn't happen. I wanted that to be like 1 1/2" off the bottom and the other main part atleast 2 1/2" so it was a layered thing. I know I don't need a bowl to have a pond section, but I have it so I figured I might as well use it. Besides that, I really didn't have that many mishaps with all of this besides running out of supplies. 

Any advice or criticism, please feel free to mention it!


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Are you going to be building all those tanks at once? Can't wait to see them.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Yes. Big mess. I just finished hardscaping my new veradero viv and the entire familyroom was a disaster. If you think you're making a mess now just wait until you get to the point where you have to silicone your hardscaping.

I don't know if you're planning on putting a water feature in one of those, but I've found that in the vivs that I use a water feature I need to go one square higher on that eggcrate.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

frogface said:


> Are you going to be building all those tanks at once? Can't wait to see them.


Unfortunately, yes. haha
It should be pretty interesting to say the least..

I'm pretty anxious myself. It's gonna be nice once I get past the eggcrate stage of things.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Yes. Big mess. I just finished hardscaping my new veradero viv and the entire familyroom was a disaster. If you think you're making a mess now just wait until you get to the point where you have to silicone your hardscaping.
> 
> I don't know if you're planning on putting a water feature in one of those, but I've found that in the vivs that I use a water feature I need to go one square higher on that eggcrate.



I can only imagine. Plus the wonderful scent it has.. haha

I intended on doing so with the water, but I think I'm just going to save that for the larger tanks. I cut the bottom pieces for the big chunk too small. Once I realized that I wasn't too happy either. I ran out of it though, so who knows.. maybe I'll end up taking those off and doing it how I planned with the water in a 20 long.


----------



## Deli (Jun 24, 2008)

How are you going to cut the FB for the hexagon?


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Deli said:


> How are you going to cut the FB for the hexagon?


I don't know how he's planning on doing it, but I can tell you table saws make everything _so_ easy!


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Deli said:


> How are you going to cut the FB for the hexagon?


Either going with hydroton to simplify things, or those biggest wire cutters in the pictures. It isn't too bad to do angles with eggcrate depending on how you're holding them. A saw would make things much faster, but it's also much easier to cut an unwanted chunk out of it too. Plus this stuff can crack pretty easily it seems..

I need to reseal that tank though because there's algae or something and the silicone is lifting at a few spots. Honestly, it would just be cheaper to simply buy a new tank and save the mess or hassle. haha

If I can manage to get something going with that tank though, I have absolutely no idea how I'd go about the background. I guess it would be exactly half the tank. It's going to be tricky because that thing is pretty small.. It would be pretty sweet though since you don't see many of those on here. Atleast I haven't..


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> A saw would make things much faster, but it's also much easier to cut an unwanted chunk out of it too. Plus this stuff can crack pretty easily it seems..


The stuff can crack pretty easily. That's why I don't use the typical wood saw blade. I use a blade designed for cutting concrete to cut my eggcrate. The wood saws have those serated edges and those edges falling on the eggcrate cracks it. The concrete blade... it almost reminds me of sandpaper, but it's not serated and it seems to mostly use friction to cut, so it doesn't crack. I don't worry about taking extra chunks out either,you've just gotta have a steady hand.



EricB said:


> I have absolutely no idea how I'd go about the background. I guess it would be exactly half the tank.


Only hardscape three sides of the hexagon tank, you'll use the other three sides to look into. It's a little tricky, but the end result is always fabulous.


----------



## Deli (Jun 24, 2008)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Only hardscape three sides of the hexagon tank, you'll use the other three sides to look into. It's a little tricky, but the end result is always fabulous.


I agree with this. I'll be hardscaping my hex (29 gallon) with 2 back sides covered in cork bark while the center back side will have a large cypress knee gorilla glue'd to it. On the knee will be a cluster or two of Neo. Zoe, Donger, or whatever looks good.

You could probably do the same this, but use a smaller neo. Like ampullacea, Fireball, wee willy, etc...


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I went to Home Depot, wow.. that place has so much more than Lowes it seems. I picked up a few more small plants and got the other things I needed. 



















I hope this is enough for a few tanks.. haha

















I got the false bottom done on the hex tank, it wasn't as tricky that I was expecting.


















Does anyone have any good/bad things to say about this instead of the GEII silicone? This costs half as much, and there's like .04 of an ounce more in it.











Here is the wood I mentioned yesterday, figures it has to be raining so I couldn't really get close. (too lazy to use the slr for 4 pictures) haha


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

Wow you are definitely going to have your hands full...so many projects, I am very jealous. Your selection of wood should make for some very nice vivariums. Can't wait to see these come together.

As for that DAP sealant, I would be careful with it. It seems to contain mold inhibitors which are generally not advisable for vivariums. Also, though I've never used it, I hear that it is more like a caulk than silicone. I know DAP has 100% silicone products that are considered "frog safe", but I am not sure about the one you pictured.

Anyway, good luck!


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> Wow you are definitely going to have your hands full...so many projects, I am very jealous. Your selection of wood should make for some very nice vivariums. Can't wait to see these come together.
> 
> As for that DAP sealant, I would be careful with it. It seems to contain mold inhibitors which are generally not advisable for vivariums. Also, though I've never used it, I hear that it is more like a caulk than silicone. I know DAP has 100% silicone products that are considered "frog safe", but I am not sure about the one you pictured.
> 
> Anyway, good luck!



Yeah this is going to be interesting once I can start making progress besides the false bottoms.

I couldn't find the 100% DAP silicone. 
I know I seen that used before, but Lowes didn't have it either.
Well if I can't use that stuff, I'm pretty sure I can still return it. 

I'd much rather use whichever costs less being it isn't cheap to begin with and you use a LOT from what I've found out..


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> I'd much rather use whichever costs less being it isn't cheap to begin with and you use a LOT from what I've found out..


It depends what you do with the silicone. If you use it to apply a layer between the glass and the GS you will obviously use a lot more. I dont do this, and just apply the GS to glass then cover the GS with silicone and coir. I go through about 2 of those GS II tubes per 18x24 background and roughly 1.5 for the 18x18 backgrounds. So I think you have more than enough to cover you for those tanks.


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I definately wouldn't use that sealant.

You want 100% silicone. That stuff is like peanut butter.

Sorry...

HD has GE II in brown.


----------



## Deli (Jun 24, 2008)

frogfreak said:


> I definately wouldn't use that sealant.
> 
> You want 100% silicone. That stuff is like peanut butter.
> 
> ...


I second this. If theres no 100% silicone anywhere on the tube, I would never consider using it.


----------



## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Do not use that caulk. It is latex based and will degrade very quickly. Mold inhibitors are not optimum, but 100% silicone is an absolute must.

It has been tried before here and I seem to remember a thread or two about it.


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Don't waste your time with the "irish moss" or "scotch moss" either, it does NOT tolerate viv conditions well.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

poimandres said:


> It depends what you do with the silicone. If you use it to apply a layer between the glass and the GS you will obviously use a lot more. I dont do this, and just apply the GS to glass then cover the GS with silicone and coir. I go through about 2 of those GS II tubes per 18x24 background and roughly 1.5 for the 18x18 backgrounds. So I think you have more than enough to cover you for those tanks.


I silicone the glass first and it rarely requires more than one extra tube for me (obviously it depends on the size of the tank). You don't have to glob it on the glass like you do for the coco fiber step, it just needs to be a thin layer of silicone. I don't even mind when I'm able to see a little light shining through it because when the great stuff and the rest of the silicone is applied it looks just as dark.

All this is to say that that one extra step, for me, doesn't require a lot more. Just a little more.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Well I got four tubes of the GEII in black and brown, so I'll return the rest and see if I can find the 100% DAP stuff somewhere because I'm sure it will cost less also. But I guess for the time being that the GE stuff I have I can start with, so later today I'll start working on that. 

Thanks for the info on this everyone. 

Any ideas on how I should try cleaning or making this wood safe?
I've searched threads and know what to do, but the size these things are make it impossible to soak anywhere completely with bleach and water and the boiling and baking aren't possible either. If I cut it and somehow screw/glue it together will that work? I'm going to a show this weekend and hopefully bringing a chameleon home, so as soon that I can get this done the better it will be.

I figure I can atleast occupy myself with one of those guys through this whole building process since they only need a screen enclosure which I've found and numerous stores not too pricey either.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Chameleons can be tricky because they need huge ventiliation but they still need high humidity. Be careful.

If those pieces of wood are too big to fit in the over or in a bucket of bleach water then how are you going to fit them in your vivarium? I'd say you should cut them to the size you want so they'll fit in your vivarium and then take to sanitizing them. If you've still got a piece that's too large get a large bucket and fill it with your bleach solution and do one side of the wood and then the other side of the wood.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Chameleons can be tricky because they need huge ventiliation but they still need high humidity. Be careful.
> 
> If those pieces of wood are too big to fit in the over or in a bucket of bleach water then how are you going to fit them in your vivarium? I'd say you should cut them to the size you want so they'll fit in your vivarium and then take to sanitizing them. If you've still got a piece that's too large get a large bucket and fill it with your bleach solution and do one side of the wood and then the other side of the wood.



Well I already had most of the wood for the vivs I have planned, but the main use of all the large pieces was for a chameleon of some sort. I didn't realize they needed high humidity, I thought it was high temp, low humidity.. Guess I mixed that up somehow. 

If I used some sort of fogger or something of that nature, would that help out with the increased humidity? My house isn't air conditioned, so this time of year it is rather humid. Well besides days like today where it rains all day and is freezing in the night.


----------



## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

For larger pieces I just either use a giant rubbermaid if that doesnt work try the tub.


----------



## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

Im off to class in a minute so I dont have time to read through your whole thread. I will when I get home though. But basicly chameleons do not do well in glass aquariums at all. Other then air flow problems. The reflections stress them out. And Often times they will sit in the corner and just paw away at the glass. I would not put a chameleon in a glass enclosure. A ll screened cage is a must. 

There is a guy out here that makes chameleon cages and for the back uses black pvc. The rest of the sides are screen. They are great for chameleons.Something along those lines would be a good choice. Bare bottom with a potted ficus tree , and some vines, ussually works the best . . .


----------



## axolotl2 (Sep 13, 2008)

Wow jump right in!!!


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

nathan said:


> Im off to class in a minute so I dont have time to read through your whole thread. I will when I get home though. But basicly chameleons do not do well in glass aquariums at all. Other then air flow problems. The reflections stress them out. And Often times they will sit in the corner and just paw away at the glass. I would not put a chameleon in a glass enclosure. A ll screened cage is a must.
> 
> There is a guy out here that makes chameleon cages and for the back uses black pvc. The rest of the sides are screen. They are great for chameleons.Something along those lines would be a good choice. Bare bottom with a potted ficus tree , and some vines, ussually works the best . . .



I was thinking about maybe getting one of these. ReptiBreeze®

I'm not sure which size to get being I don't know for sure if I'd get two or not. Either the large or extra large probably if that would be the case.

Shortly I'll be going to return the DAP silicone and hopefully finding something else I could use.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

a humidifier, a fogger in a very large bowl just above the chameleon cage, anything to keep the thing in high humidity.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I couldn't find any DAP products that said 100% silicone ANYWHERE on them, so I just went ahead and got 14 tubes of black and 6 tubes of GEII. I usually never try saving money, so why should I with this right? haha

I picked up another Exo-Terra 24x18x24 screen terrarium for a medium size enclosure for a chameleon. I know I need a taller on, but it was on sale for 90 so I figured I might as well go for it..

More updates/pictures later tonight.

Going to pick up a 55gal with stand right now.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> I couldn't find any DAP products that said 100% silicone ANYWHERE on them, so I just went ahead and got 14 tubes of black and 6 tubes of GEII. I usually never try saving money, so why should I with this right? haha
> 
> I picked up another Exo-Terra 24x18x24 screen terrarium for a medium size enclosure for a chameleon. I know I need a taller on, but it was on sale for 90 so I figured I might as well go for it..
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're trying to accumulate tanks more than you're trying to get started on the ones you already have  Time to pick a tank and start working on in


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Unfortunately I didn't get to start the silicone process on any of the vivs due to it being rather cold out.. colder than the labels say it should be to work properly. Tomorrow is supposed to be in the 60s so I'll try getting up early and making serious progress. Depending on how much of a mess I make with that I'll probably get some pictures while doing it. I need to scrub 4 tanks out also since I haven't got around to that yet, which will put things on hold a little.

I figured out the lights I want to get from HD today as well. They have this pretty sweet rack there for 200, it's 77"x24"x77". I'm sure wood is more inexpensive, but as much hassle there is involved in building it, it almost seems more practical to get the metal one. Plus it's already black, it has grille type things for the base which would make the light mounting much easier, and same deal with the misting system if I decide to go with that.

However, I did get the 55gal false bottom almost done and I'm reading up on what I have to do with the screen exo for a chameleon. chameleonforums.com really is nothing like dendroboard. Finding things out on here is much easier from what it seems.. There isn't a "beginner" section. haha

I guess I'll figure it out though. Unless I learn some more crucial information in 2 days I may not be getting one so soon or at all. 

Anyways, here's some shots of all the things I picked up today. (for the record, I'm done buying tanks unless I can get a 100+ gallon for under $250)


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I got the first layer of silicone on all of my tanks today and I'm starting the foam shortly on a few of them. How long should the foam sit before I start carving it out? Also once that happens, can I begin to put the silicone on top of it to start with the coco fiber and dirt? I'm definitely going to have to get a LOT more of this stuff because I used 10 tubes just for a thin layer due to working on so many tanks all at one time.. haha

Flikr is taking forever to upload my pictures so I'll post them a little later tonight.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I'm almost out of supplies again.. haha

It's amazing how fast silicone and foam get empty when it comes to this..

But I got some foam on most of these things today.
I have some wood in the foam, but I think for most of it I'm just going to carve out the foam so it can fit in it. These pieces are so heavy that I don't really know how to hold them in place while it cures.. It obviously takes too long to simply hold them in place, but I have some wire holding them up right now. Hopefully when I bring them inside nothing falls out. 

I got some pictures of how I started to shape the backgrounds with the foam as well. Again, flikr is taking forever to upload these things so I'll post them shortly along with the rest I took earlier.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)




----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow! This is going to be a treat to watch.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

frogface said:


> Wow! This is going to be a treat to watch.


I hope so.. this is a little more than I was expecting, but I'm starting to get the hang of it. I wish I found another thread that someone was crazy enough to do 9 tanks at once. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Here are some better pictures to get an idea how the backgrounds are going to be. I need to do a LOT of trimming on the one 20g, but besides that I'm pretty happy with them. I might make some more ledge type things on the 55g but I'm not certain yet. I don't think this is too bad for a first attempt at all of this. If I'm wrong please inform me.  haha

I'm really starting to need some racks or shelves for these things because the room is so cluttered and there isn't anywhere else to put these things.
I have a horrible headache from smelling that silicone and foam all day, my eyes are all crazy too.. haha

Good thing I should only need to experience that for another day.. The respirator really did help, but these things just sitting in here smell terrible. I wish it was warmer so I could open some windows up..


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

It's starting to come along, but where are your false bottoms?


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> It's starting to come along, but where are your false bottoms?


I'm changing most of them to be multiple pieces so they fit and to make them able to come out if needed much more easily. I picked up some hydroton pretty cheap and found a place pretty local that I can get more if needed, so I may simply just use that instead on a few of them..

Some of the foam isn't dry yet so I'm going to wait maybe another day or so to start with the backgrounds.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So the show today in Pittsburgh was pretty good since I got to meet a couple breeders, learned some more very useful things, picked up some sweet pieces of cork bark, but sadly didn't take any pictures since there was mainly just snakes there.

I realized I forgot a few things.. even with the respirator I really think my brain was severely affected from the fumes yesterday. I clearly forgot to do both sides of almost all my tanks.. haha 

I guess you learn from your mistakes, which I didn't plan on doing with these.. but I guess they still didn't turn out too bad. Maybe with plants and stuff they won't really even be noticeable. However, my exo does have 3 sides completely covered with 6 or 7 tubes of silicone if I recall. I guess I understand why people tend to use those for their "show" tanks now. I also remembered I didn't put mesh all along the bottom edges of the false bottoms so I can cover them up with gravel or whatever I can think of. All of that should be done sometime tonight or tomorrow. 

I also learned that the foam doesn't always stay where you put it, I knew it expanded but some of the places I tried making ledges flopped over and made a huge unwanted pile. That isn't all bad though, It gives more planting spaces if you look at it in a positive aspect. 

After these things get done, I'm just going for simple since I plan on breeding these rather than simply having something pretty to look at. You only need so many of those.. I think I'm already past that point. haha


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> I also learned that the foam doesn't always stay where you put it, I knew it expanded but some of the places I tried making ledges flopped over and made a huge unwanted pile. That isn't all bad though, It gives more planting spaces if you look at it in a positive aspect.


Take a knife or a razor and cut any unwanted foam out. If you want them to be higher re-apply the foam on the carved GS.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Take a knife or a razor and cut any unwanted foam out. If you want them to be higher re-apply the foam on the carved GS.


I'm working on that now in order to get the false bottoms to fit. It's crazy how long it takes some spots to get completely hard though since it's been over a whole day now. I have to figure out how to get that stuff off a new knife I just got not long ago. Or just dip the whole thing in that nasty pile of slime and maybe have a more durable finish on the blade. One of the two.. haha


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

If the foam is still goo after a day it probably went on to thick.

If you mist it with water it will speed up the cure.

Looks good so far.


----------



## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Looks like things are coming along. Be ready to be patient when applying the silicone to the background. You may want to read some of the threads on how to us gorilla glue instead. The back of my 90 gallon took about 5 tubes of silicone and I have a feeling gorilla glue would have been easier, faster, and cheaper


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

jeeperrs said:


> Looks like things are coming along. Be ready to be patient when applying the silicone to the background. You may want to read some of the threads on how to us gorilla glue instead. The back of my 90 gallon took about 5 tubes of silicone and I have a feeling gorilla glue would have been easier, faster, and cheaper



I'd try the gorilla glue, but I always manage to make a HUGE mess with that stuff. (As in more gets on me than what I'm trying to put it on.) haha

However, if I GS some cork bark to make the back flat, then gorilla glue that to an already siliconed back will that work better than simply using more silicone like people typically use?


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I forgot to mention this yesterday, I didn't end up bringing a chameleon home because I basically felt bad that he'd have to be in the house which still smells like hardcore silicone/foam. And the fact I was hoping to find a certain piece of wood for it and didn't. So I guess there's always another show very soon.. Really I just need to find a way to bake the wood I have since it's nearly perfect for a climber like those. 

On a side note though, would a Chameleon or Bearded Dragon be a better idea? Maybe in the future I would plan to breed them, but the dragons don't really seem like they mind being handled where as the Chameleons supposedly hate it. Who knows, maybe I'll end up with both. haha But unfortunately the dragons need a pretty long cage once they grow up and chameleons need a tall cage. Not sure which would be better for space since frogs will be the primary breeding concern. 

Made some progress on the trimming last night though and got the 20 long, 55g, 10 vert and most of another 20g false bottoms done for the second time. They aren't perfect, but this technically can still be considered a learning experience.. Maybe LECA isn't cheaper, but WOW is it so much easier than dealing with eggcrate. LECA surely will go in ALL of my future tanks for certain.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Bearded dragons are easier to take care of. The running joke in the chameleon hobby is that it takes three years for a hobbyist to kill their animal


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Bearded dragons are easier to take care of. The running joke in the chameleon hobby is that it takes three years for a hobbyist to kill their animal



That honestly makes sense being you aren't supposed to bother them at all from what it seems. Bearded dragons don't seem to mind from any of the videos I've seen. Once you set them down they just do whatever, chameleons on the other hand are so nervous looking all the time. I read that their cage is supposed to be at eye level? How do you go about putting a 4 foot tall cage at eye level? haha I'm assuming it's easier to breed bearded dragons too, so I may just go with those..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I'm still doing some carving on these things but either tonight or tomorrow I should be able to start on the silicone/coco fiber/coco husk/sphagnum moss/whatever else I choose to use for the background. I see why some people build the background outside of the tank then drop it in once finished.. I'm sure it's MUCH easier to trim too since you don't have glass in the way of everything. Instead of just going the simple route I may end up trying this sometime down the road. If I could go back a week ago, I wouldn't have started on all of these at one time.. but it's a little too late for that now. 


Now for the next step, is it best to kind of spread the silicone out or just pile it on there and spread the mixture on it? I tried searching this, and like most other build threads state, I couldn't really find anything besides how much of a mess this makes. Also, should I do this as soon that I plan? Should I let the foam sit a little longer before hand? I know I can't plant anything for a few weeks once this step is done, but I didn't really find much info on this part since there are so many different approaches to backgrounds..


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

When the foam is hard you can start applying silicone. The way I coco-fiber is to glob the silicone on and then put a quarter inch of coco fiber on the wet silicone and mash it into the silicone. There may be other approaches, though.


----------



## dart_frog_junkie (Apr 9, 2009)

EricB said:


> That honestly makes sense being you aren't supposed to bother them at all from what it seems. Bearded dragons don't seem to mind from any of the videos I've seen. Once you set them down they just do whatever, chameleons on the other hand are so nervous looking all the time. I read that their cage is supposed to be at eye level? How do you go about putting a 4 foot tall cage at eye level? haha I'm assuming it's easier to breed bearded dragons too, so I may just go with those..


Bearded dragons are a good choice. I have two females right now and I completely enjoy them. Beardies aren't that hard to breed at all, I'm only fourteen and I've had a pair breed 3 times already


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

dart_frog_junkie said:


> Bearded dragons are a good choice. I have two females right now and I completely enjoy them. Beardies aren't that hard to breed at all, I'm only fourteen and I've had a pair breed 3 times already


Nice. I'm trying to think of how to do an enclosure for them now. I want to get creative with it and basically not have this huge tank in the middle of a room. I want to try and turn it into a table, but I'm not sure how to do this. I was thinking about getting one of these Glasscages.com - Glass / Acrylic Sliding Fronts because they aren't outrageously priced, they supposedly need a good bit of space if they're housed together and I wouldn't mind seeing that thing under my TV. The only problem is I can't have lights on top of the cage or a screen top. I'd need to cut sections out and put screens in for airflow and get the lights in the tank covered with screen so they can't get burnt or anything. I think that will be a bigger project to take on than trying to build 9 vivs at a time. haha

In the end though, I think all of this time effort and especially money will end up paying off because I'll have quite a few new additions to the house. Plus all the sweet inhabitants will probably be happy at the same time.


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> Nice. I'm trying to think of how to do an enclosure for them now. I want to get creative with it and basically not have this huge tank in the middle of a room. I want to try and turn it into a table, but I'm not sure how to do this. I was thinking about getting one of these Glasscages.com - Glass / Acrylic Sliding Fronts because they aren't outrageously priced, they supposedly need a good bit of space if they're housed together and I wouldn't mind seeing that thing under my TV. The only problem is I can't have lights on top of the cage or a screen top. I'd need to cut sections out and put screens in for airflow and get the lights in the tank covered with screen so they can't get burnt or anything. I think that will be a bigger project to take on than trying to build 9 vivs at a time. haha
> 
> In the end though, I think all of this time effort and especially money will end up paying off because I'll have quite a few new additions to the house. Plus all the sweet inhabitants will probably be happy at the same time.


IMHO you should get moving on the tanks you currently have before you start thinking about adding anything more. 

Seriously, you have a lot of work cut out for you. You might as well start saving money as you will need more plants to fill out those vivs and of course the animals to occupy them. 

If you want a side project to occupy you while you wait for the layers of GS and Silicone to cure think about things you could add to those vivs to improve them. Maybe a closed circuit circulation system to help keep the humid air from become stagnant; or, a drainage system, automated misting, etc... Also, have you started working on any mods to the tanks that you plan to keep darts in(i.e. glass/polycarbonate tops, sealing exo joints,etc.)? These things are time consuming and not the most fun part of building a viv, I'd say that doing them while you wait for the tanks to become plantable is a good use of "down" time. 

Anyway, I am extremely jealous and interested in how these 9 vivs will come together. Good work so far!


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> IMHO you should get moving on the tanks you currently have before you start thinking about adding anything more.
> 
> Seriously, you have a lot of work cut out for you. You might as well start saving money as you will need more plants to fill out those vivs and of course the animals to occupy them.
> 
> ...



You're probably right, I always tend to get too involved too quickly with nearly everything I've ever done. Then I soon realize I shouldn't have wasted my time or money. But I've wanted these little guys since I was way younger but always was told they're poisonous so I couldn't have them. Like 10 years later I find out that's only true in the wild. haha 

I thought about a misting system but haven't really came to the conclusion I actually NEED one. Sure it makes life easier, but all the time I'm spending on this already doesn't really make me think I'm incapable of simply spraying them with a bottle. I may end up getting one for just these tanks since they're the only ones that will be "show worthy", but for the other simple tanks it isn't really worth extra pumps and what not since they'll only be 10g tanks. 

I haven't started on the lids yet and honestly don't have the slightest clue how I'm going to go about doing that with a few of these. I really don't want to use glass since I don't have the proper knowledge, nor does my dad, or tools to do it at home. Unfortunately that's the only "permanent" way to do it though since acrylic and plexiglass sags from what I've seen and read on here. 
I know for the 10g and 20g tanks I'm just going to use the jungle box conversions. The amount of money I'd waste on gas and minutes making phone calls trying to find the cheapest place to cut glass isn't even worth it to me. 

I don't think I'm even going to bother with glass on my exo right now though since that will be the "center of attention" viv. I really want that to be an awesome one, so I'm just going to use the foam background it comes with, get two more for both sides, two compact top fixtures and probably be the home of the Leucs. The breeder I plan to get those from won't have froglets for a while anyhow so there's no need to rush into that and end up messing it up or something.

A fair portion of inhabitants will be coming from my tax return.. Who knows when that will get here though being they usually take forever for me. haha

Thanks, for the interest too. I hope this stuff starts falling into place pretty soon because I really want to stop spending all of my time on these things not really making any progress. I'm waiting on some plants to root though, so I suppose the downtime isn't all that bad in some aspects. I'll keep the pictures coming too.. Tomorrow I need to go restock on some silicone and hopefully pick up some shelves so I can get rid of this clutter everywhere. Then the whole room needs rearranged. Fun stuff.. haha 

I'm guessing by Friday night I should have most if not all of the ones I have foam on will be done getting carved and have the background material applied since I have a day off. Basically I'm not sleeping until this gets completely done this weekend. haha


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Personally, I think you need to take your time. Generally until you have some serious experience creating vivariums a rushed job makes for mediocre vivs.

I also agree with poimandres. Most of the cheaper darts are going to run you 40 bucks and if you decide to get some of the rarer thumbnails/oophaga species you're looking at anywhere between 100-400 dollars per frog. I'm getting a decent sized refund, but after paying off my credit card and putting a payment on my car the rest will only buy me half a dozen of the darts I personally want (I'm not going to spend it all on darts. I don't really have the room right now, but I'll spend a little on darts for sure).


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

If you do not want to use glass to cover the tops of the vivs, I suggest polycarbonate sheets (i.e. Lexan). These will not warp like acrylic and are very easy to cut and drill later on if you want to add mist nozzles, or a fog pipe, or a circulation system. However, polycarbonate is quite a bit more expensive than glass and acrylic.

If you end up going with a Mistking system, think about how you can incorporate it to all your other tanks as well, even the smallest pump can work with 15 nozzles. 

If you do go with a misting system then drainage will more than likely be necessary. I suggest investing in a glass drill bit and getting some bulkheads to help drain out the excess water. Glassholes.com is a good site for all this and has an easy to follow video on how to drill glass. Trust me, it is not as daunting as it seems. A couple weeks ago I was a glass drilling noob, now I want to drill all my tanks!

And, like SmackoftheGods mentioned - take your time. It is also a good idea to start considering the final inhabitants of those tanks. Knowing what species the viv is going to house and the specific requirements of that species will allow you to slightly customize the design of each set up to make it the best possible habitat for your animals.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> If you do not want to use glass to cover the tops of the vivs, I suggest polycarbonate sheets (i.e. Lexan). These will not warp like acrylic and are very easy to cut and drill later on if you want to add mist nozzles, or a fog pipe, or a circulation system. However, polycarbonate is quite a bit more expensive than glass and acrylic.
> 
> If you end up going with a Mistking system, think about how you can incorporate it to all your other tanks as well, even the smallest pump can work with 15 nozzles.
> 
> ...



Everything besides the exo and 55g will just have pairs of different tincs or thumbs of some sort. I'm staying away from pumillios for the time being until I get more familiar with this. I guess whatever is available from meets/expos I can go to when I have the cash in hand will pretty much determine the rest. I know that I either want a group of Citronellas or Azureus in the 55g and Leucs in the exo. I want to try to make these pretty close to what they'd see in the wild, but technically that isn't really even necessary in my opinion if they were captive raised anyhow since they were probably in a simple 10g tank or simple sterilite box like the majority of breeders have kept them in and can stay in for their whole life according to a few sources. 

I realize everyone has a different opinion of that for their own reasons I'm sure, but if my main goal is breeding them rather than just having spectacular works of art, it makes more sense to me spending less time and money on the viv and more on the frogs.. 

I don't want to really rush into this, but I realize it takes quite some time unless I buy a proven pair from the start which I may end up doing with some so I can try perfecting the skills of actually raising these little guys on a regular basis.

I mean I'll constantly be taking pictures of them so sure I want the vivs to turn out pretty sweet, but all within moderation..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Anyways, here's some pictures of the almost finished carving and other progress made.










































So far the 55g is what I'm most pleased with. I think those little pocket things will give them someplace to hide and I was thinking about putting a coco hut on the one ledge if I can find one narrow enough. I'm just using LECA for the one 10g vert with the cork bark due to it shifting too low to use the false bottom I previously made. Plus that piece now fits nicely in the 55g since I'm using like 7 different pieces being I got tired of cutting the eggcrate and I already had pieces that fit in it.  

As I stated before, once I use up this eggcrate.. never again. 
LECA is more expensive but it also simplifies everything.

I should be ordering however many 10g vert kits will fit on one shelf of whatever rack I get and a bunch of the 10g standard tops.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> If you do not want to use glass to cover the tops of the vivs, I suggest polycarbonate sheets (i.e. Lexan). These will not warp like acrylic and are very easy to cut and drill later on if you want to add mist nozzles, or a fog pipe, or a circulation system. However, polycarbonate is quite a bit more expensive than glass and acrylic.
> 
> If you end up going with a Mistking system, think about how you can incorporate it to all your other tanks as well, even the smallest pump can work with 15 nozzles.
> 
> ...



Also I may try the lexan for the 55g since I can't seem to find something local to fit it with hinges, locks, etc..

I would try drilling the tanks for drainage, but I should have done that before I got this far incase there is a mishap.. haha

I think I'm just going to run tubes in the corners on most of them and put some screen over the tube so it doesn't get clogged up.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I picked up two shelves from Lowes yesterday and they seem quite sturdy and don't look bad. Sure they aren't fancy wood to hide the light sources like some have, but again.. I honestly don't really care what this stuff looks like anymore providing it's functional. I think I'm going to end up getting two or three more of these things too. I have to reorganize the room yet again since I found out one can fit beside my desk if I put it on the opposite wall. I may have to put my tower somewhere else though because it blows serious heat and I can't have it in a really tight space for that reason. I'm sure I'll get that dealt with soon. Hopefully I don't have to tear this huge thing apart just to move it like 6 feet.. 

All of my backgrounds should pretty much be finished this weekend too. I have to either try to find some pots around the house or maybe pick up some small ones, but besides that I think I'm done with the carving and false bottoms. I may run out and need some more LECA, but there's a place I can get that stuff like 40 minutes away. Actually, I should probably just pick some up since I'll be going fishing out that way anyhow on Saturday. 


As of now though I'm going to mix the coco husk and coco fiber then let them dry in the sun since it's nice out..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I woke up pretty early and I suppose I'm pretty happy with what I got accomplished. I've been working crazy hours lately so my days are pretty messed up. But after the fact I realized I forgot to use hoses in any of these things.. So I guess I have to take the risk trying to drill holes for drainage hoses. Not too happy about this, but it's basically too late for anything else. This is the primary reason I'm waiting on the exo. 

I'll get some more pictures tomorrow.. I don't really remember after this step what happens next. Do I wait the two weeks to let this air out or do I add the substrate and then let it air out? I've actually read too much that I've lost track of the order things go in.. I picked up a piece of glass today that I think was from a picture frame. It's pretty thin, but I could probably use that for some future basic tanks with a solid top. I wanted to just use the jungle box tops but if I can get some stuff for free I'm obviously not going to pass it up. Plus that could even be practice cutting/drilling glass. 

Doing this is quite interesting. It makes the biggest mess I've had so far with any of this whole project. Tomorrow I should be getting the background finished up on the other three tanks I have foam on.. I think I used like 8 more tubes of silicone today on a 10g, 20g and the 55g. I haven't flipped the 55g over yet to see how much falls off it since it seems to take like 5 days longer than all of the others even though it gets the same things done to it. haha

Vivs aside, my primary concern is moving this computer desk somehow without taking it apart. I honestly think this is going to be the most difficult part of everything I've done so far.. I don't actually need to do this, but it really is wasting a ton of space in this room so it makes sense to.. That being said means I can get another rack on another wall then probably have another in the middle of the room. I just hope once that happens there aren't any drunken nights that I stumble into it and knock all my frogs houses over. haha

Anyways, I really do appreciate all of the ideas, help and compliments I've got from everyone on dendroboard. Without this I really don't think I would have done this at all.. If anything I've said prior to this sounded as if I wasn't listening I'm sorry, I usually have problems with that.. But since I really know nothing about this, you guys helped me along. I realize these are nowhere close to done and I still need a bunch of things, but I don't want community thinking I'm an arrogant asshole who won't listen to anything from someone who technically knows more than I do. So again, thank you all who contributed to this.


----------



## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

Everything looks good so far, why dont you just stab a long stick into the gs in the back corner and just feed some firm tubing for drainage (the black tubing used for mistking systems), it's what I did and it works well.
You should also try gorilla glue to glue the substrate to the background, it cures in hours and you wont need much of it.


----------



## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

They look great man!

You've done a hell of a lot of work in a short amount of time.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Devanny said:


> Everything looks good so far, why dont you just stab a long stick into the gs in the back corner and just feed some firm tubing for drainage (the black tubing used for mistking systems), it's what I did and it works well.
> You should also try gorilla glue to glue the substrate to the background, it cures in hours and you wont need much of it.



I was thinking of doing that for a few future vivs that I still add backgrounds to. I'm sure that can still be kinda messy, but atleast it doesn't take forever to cure. Anything I ever used that for I had to clamp together somehow.. do you have to lay heavy stuff on top of it so it sticks or is it different when used this way?


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> They look great man!
> 
> You've done a hell of a lot of work in a short amount of time.



Thank you.  
I'm trying to take advantage of nice weather when we have it since it's 80 one day, then 50 the next.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

It's tricky taking pictures of these things right now being the lights in this room had to go since the rack was too high..

I realize I screwed these all up, so I'm waiting to do the others and definitely plan to get nothing besides 10g tanks from now on for simplicity purposes and so I can actually have money to buy frogs. That was the whole point of this.. Also, I guess I'm just going to take the risk drilling these things and globbing silicone on the outside around the tube in hopes of no leakage because I'm impatient and had nothing better to do today so I added the substrate. 

Of course I had a mishap with the 20l.. The false bottom I made was WAY too high once the substrate was in. So then I tried to pull it out keeping a small layer of LECA on the bottom but that failed. It's kinda mixed in with the substrate but I don't really think it will cause problems. If so, no surprise.. I'm used to nothing working.

The 55g is about the same.. There's like no floor space left. I'm not changing any of these because I wasted entirely too much money on them when I didn't need to spend 1/3 as much, so if the frogs aren't happy then I guess it sucks to be them. 

Maybe I would have been better off simply getting Bearded Dragons. You get a huge tank, put sand in it and add a few branches or logs.. That's completely fail proof.











































This is the nicest one and clearly was the most simple to do..


----------



## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

EricB said:


> I was thinking of doing that for a few future vivs that I still add backgrounds to. I'm sure that can still be kinda messy, but atleast it doesn't take forever to cure. Anything I ever used that for I had to clamp together somehow.. do you have to lay heavy stuff on top of it so it sticks or is it different when used this way?


It's actually alot less messy than silicone and it has no fumes, just brush on a thin coat and lay the substrate on and just pat it down a little like you do with silicone, it does bubble up some but that just adds to the look in my opinion, I really like the stuff.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Devanny said:


> It's actually alot less messy than silicone and it has no fumes, just brush on a thin coat and lay the substrate on and just pat it down a little like you do with silicone, it does bubble up some but that just adds to the look in my opinion, I really like the stuff.


I used gorilla glue for some stuff with my car and it all had to be clamped.. so this is pretty interesting. If I already have silicone on the tank to cover up the foam/glue will it still stick the same? I know that stuff is almost impossible to get off so I'm just curious. I'd never put it straight on glass though incase something happened inside the tank and it had to be broken down..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I didn't accomplish anything I had planned today. I got completely destroyed last night and slept til 3, went to work and am just getting home now.. haha

What a fun Sunday right?


----------



## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

EricB said:


> I used gorilla glue for some stuff with my car and it all had to be clamped.. so this is pretty interesting. If I already have silicone on the tank to cover up the foam/glue will it still stick the same? I know that stuff is almost impossible to get off so I'm just curious. I'd never put it straight on glass though incase something happened inside the tank and it had to be broken down..


Yes, it will stick the same. I have a tank journal here "my nancy tank" I just spread gorilla glue on straight glass, it's easier to remove than silicone, you can just peel it off.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Devanny said:


> Yes, it will stick the same. I have a tank journal here "my nancy tank" I just spread gorilla glue on straight glass, it's easier to remove than silicone, you can just peel it off.


Hmm, well I'll have to try this on a future one then. Do you mist it before or while it's drying? I know that getting it a little bit wet is what really made it stick for the previous times I've used it..


----------



## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

EricB said:


> Hmm, well I'll have to try this on a future one then. Do you mist it before or while it's drying? I know that getting it a little bit wet is what really made it stick for the previous times I've used it..


No, I find if you wet the surface like it says to do the glue will bubble up way to much and you will need to keep patting it down, I just smear it on and coat it with substrate.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Devanny said:


> No, I find if you wet the surface like it says to do the glue will bubble up way to much and you will need to keep patting it down, I just smear it on and coat it with substrate.


Alright, well thank you for the instructions on doing this.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

This weeks plans are to get prices on glass sheets and trying to cut them without problems, drilling the 55g and possibly finding some lexan providing it doesn't crack, hopefully ordering the vert conversion kits, finally moving this desk, picking up some lights, finding pots to put some plants in and getting them started, getting some plastic shoe boxes, getting the backgrounds done on 4 more tanks, cutting some of the wood I found to put in my screen exo for a chameleon of some sort, still checking craigslist daily for cheap big aquariums and working stupid hours making all of this very difficult to get done.. haha

This is all very slowly coming together though so I guess it's good that I'm making some progress. It probably would have been better to stick with one tank at a time to keep things simple, but of course, I never do that with anything.. 

Fortunately I think this will be something I do for quite some time though. So I guess all the money I spent that wasn't necessary won't be a waste for a change. That's always a plus.


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> This is all very slowly coming together though so I guess it's good that I'm making some progress. It probably would have been better to stick with one tank at a time to keep things simple, but of course, I never do that with anything..


While it makes sense to get all the materials in bulk (it is much cheaper this way), you can always save them for later and work on one tank at a time. I learn something new every time when constructing a viv and this enables me to make each following viv even better. Building them all at once leaves you with very little flexibility to learn from previous builds and you will likely wish that you spent more time on each one individually. For example, it would suck to find out that whatever you planned for drainage (or plants, or hardscape, or lights, etc.) does not work as expected and now you have to retrofit 9 vivs.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> While it makes sense to get all the materials in bulk (it is much cheaper this way), you can always save them for later and work on one tank at a time. I learn something new every time when constructing a viv and this enables me to make each following viv even better. Building them all at once leaves you with very little flexibility to learn from previous builds and you will likely wish that you spent more time on each one individually. For example, it would suck to find out that whatever you planned for drainage (or plants, or hardscape, or lights, etc.) does not work as expected and now you have to retrofit 9 vivs.


This is all very true. However, the luck I have with everything is always bad.
So basically if they all crack then I know nothing is wrong. 
That's being positive about it too.. haha

I hope that isn't the case, but if worst comes to worst atleast I'll have the shoe boxes to use for them so they won't be homeless.

I think I'm only going to do seven 10g verts because the conversion kits are too expensive and one shelve section for arboreal frogs is enough.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Last night and today I was carving my one 20g and 10g trying to make them more interesting. There's not much else I can do with these things now besides try running tubes for drainage before I put the coco fiber on. I gotta get these things from somewhere that they'll have a large amount in one package to save money. All the local places I went just have garden hoses and stuff rather than small tubing. 

I've decided that I'll probably get 4 or 5 more 20g high tanks and have them set up with the the sides being the front and back so they don't take up as much space. I wish I would have thought of this before I did the one, but I guess you learn from your mistakes. Now it figures since I'm basically done with all backgrounds besides the exo I get a much more creative mindset with these things. Especially since now I only planned on getting a whole crate of 10g tanks. I think I mentioned this before, but I realize to some this is a hobby rather than a job. I didn't really get into this for it being a hobby since I already have entirely too many of those, all expensive ones none the less. I hoped that I could actually make a profit from something I enjoy for a change. I know it will take some time for that to actually happen and you need multiple pairs of the same frogs for consistent egg producing and more experience than I have right now, but even so, I'm quite sure I can handle it with enough research and trial and error. Plus I only really planned on getting froglets for the time being, but may end up getting proven pairs for a few different frogs. 

That being said I have a few questions about it.. I've tried my hardest checking local laws/regulations and found nothing as usual. PA laws are the most ridiculous things to figure out because in one line it says you can do this then the next line says you can't. Anyways, do you need a license to own these once you get a certain amount or is it just needed when selling them? If you then make a business out of it do you have to do anything special regarding what I just mentioned as well? I'm just curious of these things because if I spend all the money I have on frogs then can't do anything with them without these things I don't really wanna go much further with all of this right now since money is kind of becoming an issue if I have to do all of these things.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I was under the impression (from a post several years ago, this may not be true... sometimes my memory isn't exactly the greatest) that just owning these frogs was illegal in PA. But as long as you don't go blabbing about it to everyone no one tries to bust down your door. Keep what you're dong quiet, keep buying and selling on the DL and behind closed doors and I wouldn't think you'll have a problem....


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I was under the impression (from a post several years ago, this may not be true... sometimes my memory isn't exactly the greatest) that just owning these frogs was illegal in PA. But as long as you don't go blabbing about it to everyone no one tries to bust down your door. Keep what you're dong quiet, keep buying and selling on the DL and behind closed doors and I wouldn't think you'll have a problem....


Well I came across something today, granted it was pertaining to alligators, but even that being said I never found this much useful information on this subject.. haha

Posted by jsherps on September 05, 2002 at 20:19:41:

In Reply to: This may contradict that........ posted by VtHerpster on September 04, 2002 at 08:08:32:

Okay this is exactly what I got off the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission Website...

Q: Is it legal to buy/sell/own an alligator, cayman, or crocodile in PA?

A: The PA Fish and Boat Commission's regulations do not regulate possession of non-native species of reptiles and amphibians. So long as these animals are not released into the wild, there are no state regulations regarding their ownership. Likewise, there is no state permit required to possess these animals. However, there may be local municipal ordinanaces, which reulate the ownership of "dangerous animals" and you should check with your local government before purchasing such an animal.


Now no form of darts are specifically mentioned in this, but if that is true then I'm in the clear and save myself hassle and money.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I trimmed up my two tanks with backgrounds to where I'm almost satisfied with em, so tomorrow I'll probably get the false bottoms in and start applying the silicone and coco fiber/sphagnum. Picked up a bunch of Sterilite boxes so I'll have their temporary homes set up pretty soon. I need to get some more coco fiber bricks though because I only have less than half of a 5g bucket and one brick still in packaging left. 

This weekend should hopefully have some pictures and progress made..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I felt pretty horrible today so I didn't really get a whole lot accomplished like I planned on.. but the desk is finally relocated. As simple that it seems, it really wasn't. This thing is ridiculously heavy and was tricky even with 3 pretty strong people. 


I got silicone on two more tanks. They obviously aren't done yet but I needed to mix some more coco fiber up to get ready for the background/substrate. By a few of these pictures I think the idea I have for 20g tanks can be understood better now than my description yesterday. I'm already pretty much past the point of doing a whole lot with the one, but the other only has silicone on it so I can have numerous approaches with it. I think I'm just going to start buying bulk packs off ebay of mopani wood and saving the pieces I don't use for whenever the time comes to go to shows and what not. It is SO much cheaper that way, plus I can get surprises too. One time everything I get in the box may suck in my opinion but somebody else may think otherwise. (That would be quite far away from now though I'm guessing)

Tomorrow if it's warm enough outside I think I may put some GS on the one that already has one side done and wood in it. The back part is where it's going. The other long side isn't getting much if any foam though.. I figure I save a ton of space doing it this way and all sides are covered besides the front so if my frogs are cranky one day then they can't bother the ones next to them or anything. I think all the 20 highs are going to be on the rack touching the wall to my right since you can only see in one side. Another rack will be going under where the wild boar head is at along the desk. And I still have to figure out where to put the other one I planned on getting. 

I haven't really seen anyone do a 20g this way before, so hopefully I can start a new trend or something from my original mistake that now became a relatively good idea in my mind atleast.. haha

I also have to scrape some of the silicone off the one side that would now be the front. My original idea failed which is obviously the reason I changed the final approach with it. 

I also got three quarantine/temporary homes almost done for the froglets I plan to pick up next weekend. I have to find a few more small clay pots and then they'll be good to go. 

Does anyone know where would be the best place to find the top plastic trim piece for my 55g? I know it's an All Glass Aquarium, which is apparently one of the more known companies so I'm sure I could find it somewhere.. But if nobody noticed yet, it's missing the cross bar on the top and it's warped pretty hardcore. That being said, fruit flies can easily get out, and I have to worry about the weight on the plastic causing too much stress and caving in probably crushing the inhabitants with my luck.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I changed this room all around in hopes of finding the most possible space.. Picked up one more rack and an additional shelf. All of the "show" tanks are going on the back wall where the curtains are because the original spot planned for them doesn't make sense considering two more racks will be in the view of them. I got some more plants as well. 

I have a lot of work to do this week if I plan on getting some froglets this weekend so this should be interesting since the weather doesn't seem to be cooperating. I really don't wanna use silicone and foam in the house but if that's my only option, it's my only option.. haha

I'll get some pictures up tonight of the changes/progress.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

No pictures yet due to repeated changes with how I plan to put the racks.. I think I'm just going to get one more rather than two because quite a few tanks can fit providing they're only 10g. I'm not really sure how I plan to do the layout with them either, but I guess that doesn't matter a whole lot right now considering I don't have the other tanks anyhow. 

I have to find some sort of small pots so I can do some planting pretty soon also. 

I priced lexan and think I may just use that for more than the 55g. What is the best thickness of that to use for a top? The stuff Lowes had wasn't even 1/8" thick. I don't know if it does the same thing with light that glass does, but is this stuff better to be thick or thin?

I'm still debating on which lights I should get. I know I'll use the compact tops for all the Exos, but they really aren't the concern right now since I only have one and not enough cork bark to even start working on it yet. I can't really seem to find much variety in 3ft T5 fixtures.. Actually, Lowes didn't even have any 3ft ones. I think Home Depot did but I can't remember for certain. I was planning on six 2ft ones per shelf but the racks have a center brace so that won't exactly work. The box claims each shelf is rated at 2000lbs so I don't really think it would matter a whole lot even if I took that out because there won't even be close to 500 pounds per shelf. It really doesn't appear that it actually holds anything either.. 

I ordered some Tillandsias and Mopani wood yesterday so hopefully those get here soon to continue progress. I basically ran out of wood to use and every store has different prices on the same thing. Maybe bulk boxes of it is better since you're just surprised when you open it in hopes of getting the next piece to build around. It's definitely a whole lot cheaper too.. 

It's really cold here again so the silicone process is sort of on hold..


----------



## hpglow (Jun 8, 2009)

EricB said:


> No pictures yet due to repeated changes with how I plan to put the racks.. I think I'm just going to get one more rather than two because quite a few tanks can fit providing they're only 10g. I'm not really sure how I plan to do the layout with them either, but I guess that doesn't matter a whole lot right now considering I don't have the other tanks anyhow.
> 
> I have to find some sort of small pots so I can do some planting pretty soon also.
> 
> ...


Any type of acrylic will generally warp. On my Acrylic made tank I used a glass lid to prevent this. If you are dead set on using Lexan for a lid then you need to be looking at 1/2" thick. You may be able to get by with 1/4" and just weld cross braces on it or something.

But why bother when you can just get a glass shop to cut you some 3/16th glass and use that?


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

hpglow said:


> Any type of acrylic will generally warp. On my Acrylic made tank I used a glass lid to prevent this. If you are dead set on using Lexan for a lid then you need to be looking at 1/2" thick. You may be able to get by with 1/4" and just weld cross braces on it or something.
> 
> But why bother when you can just get a glass shop to cut you some 3/16th glass and use that?


Yes, but Lexan is not acrylic it is polycarbonate and is will not warp like acrylic. I use Lexan for allmy mods as it is easy to cut and drill and have never had problems with warping.


----------



## sporkinator (Aug 13, 2009)

EricB said:


> Yeah this is going to be interesting once I can start making progress besides the false bottoms.
> 
> I couldn't find the 100% DAP silicone.
> I know I seen that used before, but Lowes didn't have it either.
> ...



If you were looking to save money in the future, I get a steady supply of DAP 100% Black Silicon from Maynards if you have one of those in your area...I use it and it works great.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

sporkinator said:


> If you were looking to save money in the future, I get a steady supply of DAP 100% Black Silicon from Maynards if you have one of those in your area...I use it and it works great.


I haven't ever heard of anywhere named that.. I could check it out though.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

hpglow said:


> Any type of acrylic will generally warp. On my Acrylic made tank I used a glass lid to prevent this. If you are dead set on using Lexan for a lid then you need to be looking at 1/2" thick. You may be able to get by with 1/4" and just weld cross braces on it or something.
> 
> But why bother when you can just get a glass shop to cut you some 3/16th glass and use that?



It doesn't really matter to me which I go with, but if cutting and drilling lexan doesn't require any special tools I don't currently have I'll definitely go that route. I don't know which is actually more expensive, but the lexan seems to be a better choice since it's also stronger than glass incase I'd somehow let the lid slam down or something. Plus it wouldn't explode like glass either. From something I've read lexan can literally be bulletproof. How thick it needs to be for that to be true is beyond me, but glass is a bit different in that aspect.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> Yes, but Lexan is not acrylic it is polycarbonate and is will not warp like acrylic. I use Lexan for allmy mods as it is easy to cut and drill and have never had problems with warping.


Thank you again for giving me the lexan idea. It may end up making this process go a little more smooth than I was expecting.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I got silicone and coco fiber on the one 20g today and pretty much have the room organized to the point that I'm happy with it minus the one rack I still have to get. I guess that's on hold for a little since I'm picking up some frogs this weekend.. 

I'll get some pictures on here sometime today for sure though. 

Just got a confirmation that my wood and stuff was shipped out today, still too early for tracking though. Next week I may start getting some more 10g tanks and get lexan, hinges, and whatever else needed to build the lids. I suppose I should just buy a whole crate of silicone since it seems I can never have enough of that stuff. I definitely need to find a place that has the 100% DAP stuff though because I'm getting tired of spending $6 for each GE tube that is gone in 2 minutes tops. It's getting to be a bit ridiculous. 

I'm only going to have a few more "show" tanks though because it takes too much time and supplies when I could end up having like ten 10g setups built and ready for the same cost and amount of time. 

I guess I should probably get some glass drill bits so I can see how many tanks I can shatter before I actually get the frogs. haha


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> Thank you again for giving me the lexan idea. It may end up making this process go a little more smooth than I was expecting.


My pleasure man. I've had Lexan on the tops of a few vivs that are over two years old and it has still been holding strong. I have read however that UV light can yellow polycarbonate over time so that is something to look out for. It is mostly a concern for outdoor use of polycarbonate. However, if you are using daylight spectrum shop lights or CFLs instead of the herp marketed UVA/UVB bulbs you should not have any long term problems with this.



EricB said:


> I guess I should probably get some glass drill bits so I can see how many tanks I can shatter before I actually get the frogs. haha


here is a good source for glass bits and bulkheads as well as a video on how to drill glass properly (should help mitigate the number of tanks you shatter ) 

Glass Holes


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> My pleasure man. I've had Lexan on the tops of a few vivs that are over two years old and it has still been holding strong. I have read however that UV light can yellow polycarbonate over time so that is something to look out for. It is mostly a concern for outdoor use of polycarbonate. However, if you are using daylight spectrum shop lights or CFLs instead of the herp marketed UVA/UVB bulbs you should not have any long term problems with this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I just plan to use the basic T5 HO fixtures from lowes/home depot and exo compact tops for the exos. 

I checked that site out, it's pretty interesting. All of the sizes they have are far too big though. I just need something pretty small for drainage and possibly a fogger in the exos. Which really I could just cut a hole in the screen top and or lexan to have it go down through the background since I haven't started on that one yet. I haven't decided on hand misting or automated so either way I could eventually just drill the lexan and not have to worry about getting new lids. 

I suppose I could just take the things to a glass shop but I don't really wanna keep moving these things around since the dirt slowly falls off the background. I guess the coco husk and sphagnum somehow adds to the sticking abilities rather than straight coco fiber since those ones seem to be holding up a little better. For future projects I'm only using exo backgrounds covered with something and cork bark being it covers a LOT more space, I don't need to waste my time with GS foam and half of the sweet vivs I've seen on here don't even have backgrounds!! haha 

I guess I never thought of doing it that way just having plants grow up and fill the space. It sure simplifies things though, that's for sure..


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> I checked that site out, it's pretty interesting. All of the sizes they have are far too big though. I just need something pretty small for drainage and possibly a fogger in the exos. Which really I could just cut a hole in the screen top and or lexan to have it go down through the background since I haven't started on that one yet. I haven't decided on hand misting or automated so either way I could eventually just drill the lexan and not have to worry about getting new lids.


I use the 1/2" bulkheads from that site for drainage. You need to drill a 1 1/8" hole for 1/2" bulkheads. I just attached a spigot to the bulkhead and drain each tank accordingly (this is very infrequent).


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Disregard the last comment.. I guess I didn't realize that you need a larger hole than the bulkhead. 

I love how I replied before I read everything about it.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Tomorrow is going to be a busy day.. 

My stuff should be here in the morning according to UPS. 
I have to take my TV to Best Buy to get a replacement. (I almost don't even want one of these anymore after the nonsense I've went through with this damn thing)
I'm going to try cutting the two pieces of glass I have that were from picture frames. (they're pretty thin, but the thicker it is the less light it lets through so I've read)
Probably ordering a couple of the glass cutting bits, a bunch of bulkheads and cork bark. 
Getting the other 10g, 20g and whatever size that hex tank I have backgrounds covered up. 
My Tillandsias should be here next week sometime. 
3 more shoe boxes set up and ready for froglets.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Here are some pictures of the progress I've made.. It still isn't close to where I'd like it to be, but I've been really busy lately and more time was spent rearranging furniture, moving things and wasting time on other nonsense than actually working on these things. As I mentioned previously, this weekend is going to be pretty crazy. There's so much going on that I don't quite know how anything is going to get done.. I guess one way to start is by going to sleep rather than staying on here all night looking at peoples set ups and frogs. Hopefully by doing that I can get up early enough that I can hurry up and take my TV back and get the new one here with time left to try finding all the glass in the house and possibly picking up some lexan so I can just get started on the 20g tanks since the only 10g ones I have now are set up to be verts. I'm also debating on just ripping the foam out of those because an exo is far more practical being you end up paying a few more dollars for something that looks much more appealing and more functional. Doing the vert kits still requires silicone and unless you can make the fronts then you're better off with the exos. That's just my opinion regarding this though. If anyone else agrees feel free to chime in on that so I can honestly feel better that spending more money is in fact better in that aspect. haha


----------



## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

I'll tell you from personal experience dont try putting gorilla glue on top of GS foam. I tried this on a project of my own recently and the results absolutely suck. Maybe others have had some luck doing this but yeah, it sucks. Anyway great progress. Your tanks look great already.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I love that in your pic of the frog room you have dendroboard up on your monitor.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

fleshfrombone said:


> I'll tell you from personal experience dont try putting gorilla glue on top of GS foam. I tried this on a project of my own recently and the results absolutely suck. Maybe others have had some luck doing this but yeah, it sucks. Anyway great progress. Your tanks look great already.


I thought about that as well.. I may be wrong, but doesn't the glue basically eat the foam? I know gorilla glue REALLY sucks to try getting off your clothes/skin and since the foam isn't really a hard surface it would probably just melt it.. 

Thanks though, I still have a LOT to do..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I love that in your pic of the frog room you have dendroboard up on your monitor.


I can't stop with the research and comparisons just yet.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I got my big box of wood and I'm quite impressed. Never again will I but a single piece from a store. I'll get some pictures of that up later tonight. 
Off to take the tv back, get a new one, and try finding whatever glass/lexan/plexiglass/acrylic we have lying around..

I guess let the busy weekend begin a day early. haha


----------



## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

I dont know if it eats the foam or not. I dont think it does. Devanny is right don't spray it either. The GG expands enough without being wetted down. When I tried using the method I mentioned earlier it left me with a ton of bald spots and over expanded GG. Looks like total sh!t. Bare glass or if thats too late just use the silicone. It's a messy pain but the results are good and you wont regret it like I do right now. 



EricB said:


> I thought about that as well.. I may be wrong, but doesn't the glue basically eat the foam? I know gorilla glue REALLY sucks to try getting off your clothes/skin and since the foam isn't really a hard surface it would probably just melt it..
> 
> Thanks though, I still have a LOT to do..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

fleshfrombone said:


> I dont know if it eats the foam or not. I dont think it does. Devanny is right don't spray it either. The GG expands enough without being wetted down. When I tried using the method I mentioned earlier it left me with a ton of bald spots and over expanded GG. Looks like total sh!t. Bare glass or if thats too late just use the silicone. It's a messy pain but the results are good and you wont regret it like I do right now.


I have a few bald spots on some of these tanks, but I suppose I can always just re apply the dirt before I actually put the frogs in. Honestly though if I have living moss it should just cover the foam regardless. The stuff grows all over rocks perfectly fine so I don't really see why it couldn't work on the foam as well.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Hey eric I have a quick question. What was your combination for the substrate?


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

VenomR00 said:


> Hey eric I have a quick question. What was your combination for the substrate?


Zoo Med Eco Earth/Exo-Terra plantation soil (they're both the same thing)
Zilla Jungle Mix (Sphagnum/Fir Bark)
Exo-Terra Forest Bark (Fir Bark I think I got a bag of Zilla or T-Rex also)
Zoo Med Hydro Balls in the 20g long and larger diameter hydroton in all the others
Exo-Terra Forest Moss/Zilla Sphagnum Moss
Exo-Terra Coco Husk
Oak leaves/Magnolia leaves

The backgrounds are coco-fiber, sphagnum moss, coco husk and fir bark on a couple of them.

I don't have measurements regarding how much of each is used though.. Mainly the fir bark was to just make the hill type things without using as much dirt then I basically just grabbed handful of this and that and tossed it in. I used real fine screen over the LECA though, but everyone doess that.

My 20g long has the hydroballs kinda mixed in with everything due to my false bottom not really working as planned. I wasn't going to take all of the dirt out so I just pulled the egg crate and basically made a huge mess.. Unfortunately I think I will have to get that out somehow because I don't really have a drainage layer but I'll worry about that when the time comes.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Thank you so much ^.^ yours looked nice so i figured i'd ask. I keep reading peoples and its al mixed feelings when it comes to live plants lol.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

VenomR00 said:


> Thank you so much ^.^ yours looked nice so i figured i'd ask. I keep reading peoples and its al mixed feelings when it comes to live plants lol.


No problem, and thank you.
I agree on this one too.. It's amazing how many different variations people use yet somehow they all apparently work. 

I haven't got around to the actual planting stage yet since I don't have lids or lights for that matter. I can't decide which size I'm going to need so it makes things kinda tricky. But I think for the actual plants that go in pots I'm going to use the fir bark/sphagnum (Zilla Jungle Mix) with some coco fiber as well.

I guess it's trial and error really.. So far that's what I've experienced atleast.


----------



## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

That's the silver lining. I'm going to cover the background with creeping fig and just be done with it. Should look ok once it gets covered in the green blanket and the great stuff starts to break down and turn green from moss/algae. Looking forward to seeing yours done.



EricB said:


> I have a few bald spots on some of these tanks, but I suppose I can always just re apply the dirt before I actually put the frogs in. Honestly though if I have living moss it should just cover the foam regardless. The stuff grows all over rocks perfectly fine so I don't really see why it couldn't work on the foam as well.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

fleshfrombone said:


> That's the silver lining. I'm going to cover the background with creeping fig and just be done with it. Should look ok once it gets covered in the green blanket and the great stuff starts to break down and turn green from moss/algae. Looking forward to seeing yours done.


It's probably gonna be a little while.. haha

I planned on mostly using a bunch of pothos since it goes everywhere, but creeping fig would definitely fill things up. My problem was I made the backgrounds too thick. It's too late to correct mistakes, but no more GS only backgrounds is what I learned. Or to simply try and be patient and take numerous days to re-apply after trimming it. 

I hope to have atleast 3-4 done and planted come next week sometime. Lights should shortly follow. I think I'm going with 6ft T8s with a reflector/shield and being done with it since the racks are rated at 2000 pounds each. A couple hundred pounds on each shouldn't require the center brace so I'll save myself the hassle and just get a single light. This also makes me not run out of outlets. I don't know if I'll need two per shelf or not, but I guess it will be determined if the plants are growing/dying. I just don't wanna go completely overboard if I don't actually have to since anything with Exos are going to have their own separate fixtures because anything else looks ridiculous and they actually fit properly. I just hope I don't have to use their crazy priced overkill bulbs. I originally thought all exos, but they're expensive. Then I realized the extra 10 dollars also adds doors and functionality. They also waste mad space unless you have arboreal frogs too.. so I don't know what I'm going to end up with.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I should have a ton of pictures up today providing a pet store is open so I can get 10g tanks. The shoe box idea isn't going to work because the Cobalts go nuts and hop out. I thought I lost the one, but I managed to catch him/her safely. Besides those guys everyone else didn't really give me any problems at all.

I'll get some pictures of plants and the other stuff I picked up this weekend. Maybe the frogs too if they'll cooperate with me.


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

keeping this thread as a fav. keep those pics coming ... nice meeting ya yesterday


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

catman25 said:


> keeping this thread as a fav. keep those pics coming ... nice meeting ya yesterday


Nice, I got quite a few of the frogs today and made some progress on the hex and 20 high. 

I decided on which frogs will be going in which tanks today which also made serious progress even though I don't have any done. Atleast now I know what I need to get accomplished..

Azureus will be staying in shoe boxes since I have so many.. but once they grow up some I'll split them up into pairs. After I can try sexing them they'll go to 20g tanks and if I KNOW there is a pair then I may add another male to the mix. (which I'm quite sure I'll have.. haha)
Terapotos will be going in the hex.
Orange Lamasis will go in a 10 vert.
Cobalts will be split to pairs and going in 20g.
Leucs will be going in the 55g.
Amazonicus will be in a 10 vert if I can raise the tads successfully. 

I'll get some pictures up tomorrow, I'm gonna try editing the colors to make them 100% true to life.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

dont forget to add pictures of the frogs ^^


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

VenomR00 said:


> dont forget to add pictures of the frogs ^^


I'm picky about pictures, so today or tomorrow I'll have atleast one good one of each species. I got a few good shots of the Cobalts but they're also the only ones in glass tanks right now.

Picked up two Zoo Meds and two 10G tanks and I'm working on cleaning those out in a few minutes. Got a bunch of lights and in the process of setting those things up as well. Everyone said to use around 6800K? They're bright as all hell.. no wonder why a lot of people don't see their frogs. It probably blinds the poor little guys. haha

I'll get pics up of all this though. Just bare with me since this is the point I should have been at BEFORE I got all these guys.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

TBH I think the 5.0 lights by zoomed are the best for frogs from what I understand.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Correction.. 6500K bulbs. 

I have to get some thermometers/hygrometers pretty soon so I can actually see what's going on. I stuck my hand in the one and it felt like it was super hot in there. Maybe I'm wrong though.. I don't know. 

They either got cooked or they're sleeping. I'm hoping the second one..

I'll get some pictures up shortly.. 


The lights I got are 4ft T8 Diamond Plate shop lights from Home Depot. 
Lithonia Lighting - The best value in lighting These to be exact, and Phillips 6500K 32 watt bulbs. 

I got the Cobalts 10g tank all sealed up now so I think it's escape-proof/FF proof. 


Anyways I'm in the process of uploading some pictures to my flikr. By the time anyone looks at this there should be some real clear shots of the Azureus froglets.

Check this out for the time being.. Flickr: ericbradish's Photostream
You can see how much the room has changed so far. That is why I haven't been able to get all the tanks set up lately. Yet today I did 3.. haha

I'll then edit and upload the finished files back onto flikr in a day or so. I got 2 10g tanks set up and planted, a 12 cube zoo med and I'm still letting the hex air out. It still smells like silicone pretty bad so I'll hold off for a little while before I put the Terapotos in there.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Very nice lights. Question though. Do you know if Home Depot sales a florescent light hook up that is 20" long that holds a 18" bulb? I have looked at lowes and HD but still cant find any.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

VenomR00 said:


> Very nice lights. Question though. Do you know if Home Depot sales a florescent light hook up that is 20" long that holds a 18" bulb? I have looked at lowes and HD but still cant find any.


Thanks, I'm just concerned if they're making things too hot. I'm picking up a thermometer gun tomorrow so hopefully I'll be able to tell then. (gotta love when you lose your thermometer/hygrometer) haha

I'm honestly not sure about that one. The smallest fixture I found was a 2' Lithonia Lighting T5 fixture for $35 with bulbs. They had weird size bulbs there too though.

I seen some crazy sized bulbs at pet stores and wondered the same thing myself.. The awkward bulb sizes are mainly used for aquarium tops from my understanding.


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

I browsed through your flickr album...dude, you have your hands full lol. 

Great looking frogs! 



> I just hope I don't have to use their crazy priced overkill bulbs.


With the exo and zoo med hoods you do NOT have to use the marketed UVA/UVB bulbs. Look for CFLs in the Daylight spectrum (~5,500k + ) and you will be fine in terms of plant growth. You can buy 3 CFLs for the price of 1 of the zoo med/exo bulbs and the UVA/UVB output is generally negligible once you take into account the glass, screen, and distance the light must travel. Your frogs will stimulate enough D3 production through proper supplementation (Calcium + D3).


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So, as I mentioned previously, my Cobalts aren't very well behaved.. Well one of them got out today when nobody was home. Somehow I managed to find him sitting on my huge knife on the floor. They've been relocated. I'm going to tear the frame off that 10g and try getting a new one or making one. We used plexiglass for the time being, but I think I may have to go get some glass cut or suddenly learn how to do it myself because it's already kinda warping.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Here is a cheap way from what I understand for plexiglass. Here's what I remember from my architecture life. Just get some strips of plastic or something that wont bow under heat and for every 2" of plexiglass add a strip over the plexiglass to keep it from bowing and do a cross hatch ^^


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> I browsed through your flickr album...dude, you have your hands full lol.
> 
> Great looking frogs!
> 
> ...



Thursday I should be going to pick up some supplies and I'll get some Rep-Cal and Herptivite as well. As for the hands full I probably do, but I doubt I won't come home with some more.. haha

I'm going to get some lids made for the 20 long and 20 high tomorrow. I'll try making a frame for the one 10g and maybe just take a 10g to a glass shop and say make two pieces fit. That will definitely make things easier and probably not result in any more escapes. I should have taken a picture of the little guy on the floor but I didn't want to risk losing him. I still can't believe I was lucky enough to just find him sitting there since my mom was walking all over the room trying to find him prior to me getting back here.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

VenomR00 said:


> Here is a cheap way from what I understand for plexiglass. Here's what I remember from my architecture life. Just get some strips of plastic or something that wont bow under heat and for every 2" of plexiglass add a strip over the plexiglass to keep it from bowing and do a cross hatch ^^



I'll have to try this, but I'll still probably wind up using glass for long term problem free tops. I don't understand how this stuff bowed in 2 days time. That's pretty crazy..


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

That means the lightning was prob to hot =P


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

EricB said:


> I'll have to try this, but I'll still probably wind up using glass for long term problem free tops. I don't understand how this stuff bowed in 2 days time. That's pretty crazy..


That is the major problem with plexiglass, which is acrylic. Next time go with polycarbonate and you will not have any warping.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Will polycarbonate allow UVA and UVB to pass through it with the light and heat though?


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

VenomR00 said:


> Will polycarbonate allow UVA and UVB to pass through it with the light and heat though?


Polycarbonae (also called Lexan) has higher heat retention properties than both acrylic and glass. 

I'm not sure about the UV properties of polycarbonate. But my guess is that it restricts the amount of UV passing through at least as much as glass and screen does. Under high amounts of UV (i.e. outdoor use) polycarbonate can begin to yellow, but I doubt that the amount put out by the UVA/UVB bulbs is anywhere near that threshold.

Regardless, the UV output of those bulbs is pretty low to begin with and after 12" is pretty much null. UV does nothing for plant growth, its main purpose is to stimulate D3 production in the animals. But, dusting with +D3 supplements is much more reliable and an all around better approach - IMO, the UVA/UVB bulbs are a waste of money for a fraction of the cost you can get daylight spectrum CFLs that work as well if not better.


----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

So a florescent light ~6500k is just as equivalent to a zoomed 5.0 tropical floresecent light?


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

Actually,a 6,500 k light will put out more useable light for plant growth than the 5.0.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

poimandres said:


> That is the major problem with plexiglass, which is acrylic. Next time go with polycarbonate and you will not have any warping.



I really just had to use what I had around since my glass plan failed.. haha
I may end up getting some lexan and glass then seeing which is better for the frogs, plants and myself. 

All I know is those bulbs are RIDICULOUSLY bright. I had to put cardboard up to shield the horrible glare I had on my monitor. I guess now I don't need to hook the computer up to the tv which kinda sucks being 2 more racks would have fit in here.. haha

I don't know though, maybe another room will end up getting some tanks too so it's hard to tell at this point. I want more frogs so for the time being 10g is what is best considering I'd still only have froglets unless I score a sweet deal on a pair. I'd like to get one pair before all of mine are adults so I can really see what I'm going to have to do once that time comes so I'm prepared for it and don't have like 892730489232 eggs to deal with. Practice makes perfect right? 

I worked on a few pictures last night but most of them are either good or not good regardless. I got the colors almost right with the camera alone but I'm sure it's going to take some practice with that too since the lights are not what I'm used to seeing in this room. Typically it was black, now it's white. Big difference.. haha

I'm going to pick up some bugs today and some other goodies as well. Tomorrow is a trip to Ohio for more supplies and maybe a couple frogs.  
This is so addicting it's crazy. 

I'll be posting some pretty good shots in a minute or so. My internet isn't cooperating right now..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)




----------



## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Sorry mate for jacking your thread =P. Those are beautiful frogs. What do you feed them? Just FF or do you give them other items rotationally? I have geckos so I give my guys crickets and twice a week I give them Isopods that are known to most as Rolliepolies ^^


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

i dont wanna highjack this thread either but thought it was relevant . ive read somewhere (maybe here uv can be obtained by black light or a aquarium nite setting lite ? I have a extra one of these id like to use . should i put it on during the day with other lights? or incorparate it at nighttime??? i have tanks with glass tops (15 gl verts) and would that allow uv ? ....hey eric awesome start !


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

VenomR00 said:


> Sorry mate for jacking your thread =P. Those are beautiful frogs. What do you feed them? Just FF or do you give them other items rotationally? I have geckos so I give my guys crickets and twice a week I give them Isopods that are known to most as Rolliepolies ^^



No problem, and thank you. 
Right now just a mix of springtails and melonogaster ffs. 
Once the tincs get older I may try some tiny crickets since I'll have a few lizards come that time too.
Tomorrow I'm going to pick up some vitamins and stuff for them to dust the bugs in since I don't have any right now. (Nowhere around seemed to have it, but I'm going to the city today so I'm sure I'll find some.)


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

catman25 said:


> i dont wanna highjack this thread either but thought it was relevant . ive read somewhere (maybe here uv can be obtained by black light or a aquarium nite setting lite ? I have a extra one of these id like to use . should i put it on during the day with other lights? or incorparate it at nighttime??? i have tanks with glass tops (15 gl verts) and would that allow uv ? ....hey eric awesome start !


Thanks man.
I have those clip on fixtures with black CFL bulbs right now that I leave on for a few hours after the lights go out. The other night I seen the Leucs out hunting for like 20 minutes then they disappeared and went to sleep I guess.


----------



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

catman25 said:


> i dont wanna highjack this thread either but thought it was relevant . ive read somewhere (maybe here uv can be obtained by black light or a aquarium nite setting lite ? I have a extra one of these id like to use . should i put it on during the day with other lights? or incorparate it at nighttime??? i have tanks with glass tops (15 gl verts) and would that allow uv ? ....hey eric awesome start !


The only benefit of UV is to stimulate D3 production in the frogs. Vitamin D3 aids in mineral metabolism and proper absorption of calcium. You will not get enough D3 production from lights alone, hence why it is so important to ensure that you are dusting the fruit flies with +D3 supplements. 

The use of black lights would be a purely aesthetic choice for you, the keeper, not the frogs.


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

huh... looks like you kinda slammed yourself with some frogs there. They look good though


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You don't do anything half way, do you?! I've enjoyed watching the progress. Grats on the beautiful frogs!


----------



## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Looks like you've got your hands full for the next couple of months! Keep us posted on your progress man


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

frogface said:


> You don't do anything half way, do you?! I've enjoyed watching the progress. Grats on the beautiful frogs!


Definitely not, unfortunately.. haha
It's still far from done though, who knows when this will be finished. 
I still gotta get another rack and I haven't decided where or how it is going.
All the tanks I've been working on still have nothing in them and the only one that is ready for a top is the 20 long. 

Thanks about the frogs, I have a new reason to make use of one of my talents again because of these little guys. In the future I'm sure I'll have another thread with more pictures than words. I just have to get all of this down to a science and hope for the best along the way. 

I guess one escape in 4 days isn't THAT bad for temporary enclosures, right? haha

Next week that should no longer be an issue, ever, unless I'm not paying attention during misting/feeding. 

I may go the automated misting route but still haven't decided. I guess I'm not tired of hearing the bottle spraying yet so it works for the time being. A pump sprayer may be something to look into pretty soon though because it would definitely make things easier and much faster resulting in less time for these guys to think about hopping out.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

eos said:


> Looks like you've got your hands full for the next couple of months! Keep us posted on your progress man


It's definitely gonna be interesting. These guys aren't too much to handle and I've almost learned the definition of patience through this whole thing, which may actually be good in a few aspects. I still can't get used to the fact of how long silicone takes to cure. It's so bothersome that it takes practically weeks for the smell to go away once you apply the background. Hopefully by the end of the week or next week I can get that hex finished up. I have the wood picked out and have the top cut to size, but it's plexiglass so atleast I have an EXACT fit for glass to be cut. 

Does anyone have a good method of cutting glass successfully? I've learned it sucks pretty bad to deal with.. hence the substitute material for the tops due to breaking everything I had planned for like 5 more tanks that I don't even have yet!! Every piece just broke.. haha


----------



## hpglow (Jun 8, 2009)

EricB said:


> It's definitely gonna be interesting. These guys aren't too much to handle and I've almost learned the definition of patience through this whole thing, which may actually be good in a few aspects. I still can't get used to the fact of how long silicone takes to cure. It's so bothersome that it takes practically weeks for the smell to go away once you apply the background. Hopefully by the end of the week or next week I can get that hex finished up. I have the wood picked out and have the top cut to size, but it's plexiglass so atleast I have an EXACT fit for glass to be cut.
> 
> Does anyone have a good method of cutting glass successfully? I've learned it sucks pretty bad to deal with.. hence the substitute material for the tops due to breaking everything I had planned for like 5 more tanks that I don't even have yet!! Every piece just broke.. haha


Do a search for stained glass on google. There are plenty of glass cutting tools and fluids avalible on those sites. You just score it and then snap it. You need to use the proper tool and fluid to score it properly.

I see reading back a couple pages you decided to use the plexi anyway.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

hpglow said:


> Do a search for stained glass on google. There are plenty of glass cutting tools and fluids avalible on those sites. You just score it and then snap it. You need to use the proper tool and fluid to score it properly.
> 
> I see reading back a couple pages you decided to use the plexi anyway.


I'll have to check this out.. any one in particular? 
Cheap good quality is what I'm looking for at this point since I came home with 5 Yellow Galactonotus froglets.. haha


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Oh MY! Love it! Love it all!


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

hey eric i just picked up a 75 gallon long . 22-24 inch floor with 4 1/2 feel height holy crap . also building a 20 high taNK AS WELL , in the pic dont mind the dirty room or the jager on top


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

catman25 said:


> hey eric i just picked up a 75 gallon long . 22-24 inch floor with 4 1/2 feel height holy crap . also building a 20 high taNK AS WELL , in the pic dont mind the dirty room or the jager on top


Damn man, you think that room is dirty? Did you forget what mine looked like during all of this? haha
That's gonna be awesome, what are you planning on putting in that huge thing? 
There's crazy space in that for sure..
The Jager adds a nice touch, just missing the monster and some bomb cups. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

D3monic said:


> Oh MY! Love it! Love it all!


Thank you! 
It's slowly coming along, but next month everything should be in order. 
I'm spending too much money I don't have and haven't even ordered the mass quantity of cups, cork bark, more mopani wood, a lot more LECA and everything else I didn't mention yet. 
After that I think I'm just going to focus on what I have and get everything done with these.
Then I'll focus on mainly getting Aqueon 10g tanks since I found those for $1.25 more than the ones I've been getting and can simply order the tops from jungle box. That will make my life much easier for certain. haha


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

my buy tops? set um up as verts then go to home depot have them cut the glass. glue the bottom end to the tanks and the put other side on the silicone the seam , cheap easy and not so bad looking hindge , im in pretty fuuuuunny right now im crashing bye! oh , snap my bastis ,,, maybe they might get lost in there !!!!
this is what i do http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/27889-making-pdf-vertical-tank.html


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

catman25 said:


> my buy tops? set um up as verts then go to home depot have them cut the glass. glue the bottom end to the tanks and the put other side on the silicone the seam , cheap easy and not so bad looking hindge , im in pretty fuuuuunny right now im crashing bye! oh , snap my bastis ,,, maybe they might get lost in there !!!!
> this is what i do http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/27889-making-pdf-vertical-tank.html


I seen that and thought about it, but as much money I waste on gas with my Jeep it makes just as much sense to just order the tops. With my luck every time I'd go nobody working would be qualified to cut glass.. haha

As I mentioned before, if lexan doesn't have any ill effects besides turning yellow I think I may just use that. However, the way I'm setting up my tanks the lights will sit directly on them. They're hanging now because I don't want to burn the plexi-glass.. Will lexan be affected by this at all? Or am I basically stuck with glass either way? I mean it makes perfect sense to use glass considering the rest of the tank is glass besides the trim, but I don't really wanna burn that either. I don't know, I've seen a few peoples setups and have many ideas to go with now. It's just a matter of me getting the funds to get the rest of the supplies. I obviously need to get tops for everything I have now, but since I plan to get all of the same brand tanks from now on if I get the ability to make one, I'm going to make a ton at one time so I have them for future I have to buy frogs today moments.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

These were the only two I seen feeding.. they had a pretty long ride home so I figured I'd feed everyone again since I finally picked up some Rep-Cal and Herptivite. 
I'll try to get a group shot tomorrow. 
Same with full tank shots, I don't think I have any of those yet..


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Put a fan on your tanks and put a heat lamp on top or take them out into the sun. The combination of gentle heat (note that _gentle_ heat) and heavy circulation may reduce your silicone cure time.


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

one of my first miostakes was thinking the silicone was dried . lost a few frogs with that mistake . but that was 4 yrs ago ..... so i know now !! even when u thinki its dry wait more ... where are you getting your lids? are most your tanks 10 gal or 15 ??? i know dane at jungle box does conversions , but with my experiance if your buying alot its def cheaper to make yourself / what ever you decide to do we are here to help /... Um not pay for it but were here to help ...lol


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I got the Zoo Med 12x12x18 planted and ready to go, 20 long is done and 55g is planted as well. I'll get some shots of those up tomorrow since the lights are off and I don't want to bother my little guys. 

The Terapotos are now in the Zoo Med since they're almost fully grown and they appear to be a male and female. I could be wrong, but the one is super fat compared to the other when they're the same age.

The Galacs seem to like their new home. They apparently found lots of hiding spots. Dinner for Mothers Day is going to be at my house this weekend so I'll wipe the tanks down to get full tank shots. Keep in mine the skinny side is all you see on the 10s and the Zoo Meds are only 12" as well so they aren't THAT spectacular. The 55g turned out better than expected and the 20 long is pretty awesome. I bet the Galacs or Cobalts are gonna like that once they grow up a bit. I don't know if I'm going to do 20g or 10g from now on. Obviously I need small ones for grow out tanks, but shoe boxes will work for those providing the frogs aren't nuts like my Cobalts. I'm really not looking forward to those having froglets and having to catch them for whatever reason if they're anything similar to their parents. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So besides thinking I almost gave all of my frogs heart attacks I haven't really had any eventful times lately. 
I got totally hammered Saturday so I didn't really bother to wipe the tanks down for full tank shots since everyone could clearly see them as they were.. 
I may get around to doing that, but they're only 10g tanks for the time being and were just recently planted so we all know they aren't extravagant and aren't going to be.
I ordered a ton of stuff this past week and the rest should be coming tomorrow if UPS is correct. 

I got all kinds of stuff, so I should be set for a pretty good while. 
The only things I'll need is more aquariums/frogs. 

As I mentioned elsewhere or possibly in this thread (can't remember) I also wanted to get Bearded Dragons. 

So after I suck it up and risk trusting someone to sell me a sexed pair of frogs, those will be next. 
Then the frogs will still happen during that and possibly grow in numbers because there's a few expos that will happen before I have the cash to buy the beardie tanks.. 

I'll get some new shots up tomorrow, or just check the flikr. It's much easier for both of us.. haha


----------



## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

You are one busy man, my friend!


----------



## bronz (Jul 29, 2008)

You certainly have a lot on your hands there, ff production must be working overtime! How many cultures are you running to keep them all fed?


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Well currently only 3, but I started 6 yesterday..

My order wasn't shipped until like 5 days later and the flies I started the Hydei and Glider cultures with are all over a month old. Hopefully there isn't a problem with that, but I can't really control how or when things are shipped so if there is I guess it sucks to be me.. 
I got two producing Melanogaster cultures so atleast those are fresh and they all eat those incase the others crash on me. 

I got a few more springtail cultures as well so I can start to just dump those things in the tanks once they start producing more. 
The first one kinda seems like it died off, but again, it took me forever to order stuff so everything was on hold. 

The frogs were still fed daily though even with the short amount of bugs.. Due to the lack of bugs, prior to now I've fed them a little more every other day so I didn't completely run out. They all are getting pretty chubby and I guess seem healthy besides that tiny Lamasi. I still haven't seen either of those guys eating anything at all.. Again, who knows what a happy frog looks like? Nobody. They hop around and climb on stuff, to me that's happy enough.

The Tarapotos seem to like the Zoo Med, they're all over it all day. I added a small water bowl yesterday and the one seems to like hangin out by that thing now instead of the top of the glass. 

I was told I may be going back to work next month in Erie, I live an hour from Pittsburgh.. I don't know what I'm gonna do with these guys once that happens. Figures nothing happens for almost a year, then I get frogs and all of a sudden it's back to the random time to work again.. They're not old enough to sell and actually make profit, so I guess I have to rely on a family member to take care of them for that time because my friends might as well not exist when it comes to being reliable.. or even having anything to do with these guys since they all think it's extremely retarded in the first place and have no faith in my intentions at all. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

The only one downfall I've realized so far is the fact that I can't drink as much that I used to.. Well I guess I can, but it's just not the stuff that is regular. haha

I'm not even saying how much money I spent so far because prior to this week it wasn't THAT much besides the silicone and gs foam. Well, I guess that isn't completely true.. All of the bark/dirt/moss wasn't all that bad but it adds up and the hydroton is outta control pricey. There has to be something cheaper to use than that stuff. Plus I need to find it local somewhere besides just at expos if there isn't an alternative. I've been using the Zoo Med Hydroballs lately because I found em for like $5 per 2.5lb bag. But they aren't the same as the real stuff.. It takes so much more and they're only being used in small tanks on top of everything. I know, hydroponic shops, I don't know where they are.. 

12x12x18 Zoo Meds/Exo-Terras are going to be the staple for ANY of the vertical tanks I do from now until whenever. A pair of any thumbnails can easily be happy in one of those, the things are less than an inch long. There clearly is enough room.. haha

Plus I really don't think it's worth the hassle to find somewhere that cuts glass or to buy the conversion kits when these things have doors and need nothing but cleaned out and set up. Plus I don't really feel like wasting even MORE money on silicone as if I haven't done that enough yet. 

I'll put some pictures of how the room changed yet again and try getting some full tank shots of a few shortly. All my batteries died on both cameras.. what are the chances of that? 5 dead batteries.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Again, it's easier this way.. plus you can see HUGE sizes.

Flickr: ericbradish's Photostream


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

everything is looking amazing , Check these out .. new homes i set up from things from desantis meet for my new bastis 
here is their soon to be home , any issues or concerns let me know , plants on the bottom seem to get enough light as the turned themselves towards it , also dont know if you can see in the pic but in the middle the is a whole second shelf where plants are growing , I"m adding 2 vines which will house another brom and will be a guideway for my wandering plants to travel . I also included a vid of my other set ups including the 10 my basti set WAS going to live in , then my 20 gal vert that they were going to live in .. now they are going to call a 75 vert(my guess... 41/2 feet high ... 11 1/2 by 26 ) any how ill let that grow in for a month to trouble shoot it for any issues , Does any one know what that black plant oin the bottom is ? thanks 
ps leave me a comment if you see vid , even if its your dendro name . ( i like knowing whos stalking me lol 
YouTube - 75vert .AVI

also
YouTube - cpl different tanks .AVI


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Thanks man, it looks like your hands are more full than mine at this point.. haha
I finished up the background on my last 20g tank and planted the hex tank today.. So I'm basically out of projects.

However, on Tuesday I'm picking up a 75g two 55g and two 20g long tanks for a price way too low to even mention.. haha

My fly cultures seem to be producing so it looks like all is well on that note, now I just need to get some beardies or adult pairs of frogs so I can actually begin to accomplish what I'm trying to get going here. 

I know some people aren't in this for the business aspect, but as I mentioned many times before.. that's what I plan to do with all of this. Frogs and Bearded Dragons are probably going to be what ends up happening, but I need to get atleast one Chameleon of some sort since I have that screen Exo even though I know I'll want more because they're worth far more than any frog or beardie..

All of the pictures on my flikr don't have that many views.. check those things out!!

It's better than seeing them on here when you can look at HUGE ones.. 

Flickr: ericbradish's Photostream


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I forgot about something.. there's a 35g tank included in that deal of the multiple tanks I'm supposed to get tomorrow. I don't know exactly what all is going in these things, but I'm sure I can figure something out. Bearded Dragons will more than likely be going in atleast two of them. But the more I read apparently you aren't supposed to house them together unless you want breeding.. Just like people say on here, they need practically an entire house to themselves.. If anyone knows a reasonable size enclosure for two beardies please feel free to let me know via PM or just on here. I mean frogs can live in a shoe box.. bearded dragons are huge compared to frogs, but still.. they can't need a 4x2x2 enclosure just to be alone.

This weekend there's a show in Pittsburgh so I'll probably manage to get some inhabitants for atleast one of them. 

So far I seem to be managing to take care of all these plants and frogs pretty well since the plants appear to be growing well and the frogs are all about the same size I guess.. I don't know, it's kinda hard to tell. They're mostly all pigs besides the Lamasis' so I assume everything is good. Those guys are so small though and I still haven't seen either of them eat. Up until a couple days ago I didn't notice the Tarapotos eating anything either, but I added some new film cans on the sides and they love them. I just hope they don't end up hurting themselves because they go to the top of the tank and jump straight to the bottom. That can't feel good.. haha

The cultures I made seem to be producing, so providing there's no mishaps with that I should be good. I know it's a science and regardless of how experienced with them you are a culture can still crash at any time.. I guess that's why everyone makes so many at a time.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Some people apparently don't know to measure aquariums to determine the gallon size..

I ended up with a 75g, 55g, three 10g, three 20g highs and one 20g long. I guess the guy broke the one 55g the night before I went to get them..

Anyways, I was just complaining two days ago about how I have nothing to do and now I'm back to having too much to do.. haha

This weekend I'm definitely picking up some frogs and maybe a lizard of some sort providing my current tanks actually get cleaned out in time. I have some more light fixtures so I can use a variety of lights now as well. The 75g would be awesome as a vert, but I really don't feel like dealing with it. So I'm quite sure a lizard is going in that thing. The 55g may be used for frogs but still isn't decided quite yet. I've found a few of those reasonably priced, so as much as I DON'T want tons of big tanks I'll probably still end up with them. All of these tanks are just going to be horizontal though so there's less nonsense involved to get them going. 

I really wish I could get a monitor, but until I move I guess that can't happen.  

However, once the frogs grow up and never shut up the idea of a huge lizard may then be more appealing.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

The tiny Lamasi is eating something for sure.. I don't understand how I see the little guy everyday and all of a sudden it looks like he finally grew? Weird.. The one Amazonicus tad is getting some color now so I guess he's doing pretty good as well. I guess all of the frogs are growing, they're definitely getting fat so I guess I feed them well.

I have so many things to do this week it's ridiculous..
I think I'll scrub out the new tanks today one more time with just plain water and call them ready to go. I'll probably put them on my porch though incase it rains again so I don't have to dry them off more than once since there's so many of them.

I may end up doing the background on one 10g vert I have carved out and possibly the already started 20g high and 20g long. I don't want to start on these things unless I KNOW for sure that I have enough supplies to get them completely finished. I know I don't have enough hydroton so I don't have to worry about getting them planted for a while. That's sadly the main reason I want to start working on all of them though. I think the one 55g I got leaks so I guess that one is going to be for lizards to save the hassle and waste of silicone when it isn't needed. I found a few more 55g ones on craigslist, but I don't really want to keep spending money on tanks when I don't even have tops for all of my current ones even though they're very reasonable. Fortunately Bearded Dragons don't even need a top, and if anything only screen. That's convenient for the fact I have two huge ones and have some stuff in the garage incase I'd need to end up building one. 

It sucks I have all of these huge tanks now and technically don't really have room for them unless I get a new desk or get rid of this one and just put it in another room somehow.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I've been pretty busy lately, but I'll get some pictures up of some new stuff since it's been a while and I was only posting flikr links. 
If it doesn't happen in a few hours someone can feel free to PM me and tell me to stop slackin.. haha


----------



## zcasc (Dec 8, 2009)

Hey EricB, 

Amazing work, and beeea-utiful froggies... I am jealous. 

Now that we have that out of the way, I was curious as to where you acquired those black storage racks that you mount your tanks on. Also, what is the general price range? I am looking into something like that for my own "frog room".


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

zcasc said:


> Hey EricB,
> 
> Amazing work, and beeea-utiful froggies... I am jealous.
> 
> Now that we have that out of the way, I was curious as to where you acquired those black storage racks that you mount your tanks on. Also, what is the general price range? I am looking into something like that for my own "frog room".



Thanks! The quantity will be growing on Sunday.. haha 

The local Lowes has them, I believe they're around $160 each and they come with 3 shelves. Home Depot has either the EXACT same thing, or something close enough to be the same thing which has 4 shelves for $200. It's $40 per each additional shelf from Lowes, so basically they're the same and the same price in the end.. 

So far they haven't given me any problems and supposedly can hold 2000 pounds per shelf. I'll never see that considering I'm going to be risking it with all of these things and not having my floor cave in. I did have a few issues getting them to the proper height though once the tanks and lights were on, but that's user error I suppose.. haha

They're 72"x72"x24" so you can fit a decent amount of stuff on them.


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

for all the cheap people out there ( yes I'M cheap ) 
walmart had some nice shelves they were 39.99 came in black or chrome , they were on clearance so price may be different http://www.walmart.com/ip/Whitmor-Supreme-5-Tier-Shelving-System/4433073 ... not the best but my room more shelving units are better due to 
my frog room have not alot of straight walls


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

damn looked back at some pics omg you got military grade shelving lol , my shelving is nsf approved if that means anything lol . also seen back u were discussing the legality of keeping ur frogs , im in same predictament , i live in ny but my city is auburn , i heard " key word heard exotics are a no no . and ive to a point where im having babies out my bum and people local wanna buy but do i make myselve known? my predictament is idk how to find the laws unless i say hey cops whats the laws of this and first thing they ask you is whats ur name lol .


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

catman25 said:


> damn looked back at some pics omg you got military grade shelving lol , my shelving is nsf approved if that means anything lol . also seen back u were discussing the legality of keeping ur frogs , im in same predictament , i live in ny but my city is auburn , i heard " key word heard exotics are a no no . and ive to a point where im having babies out my bum and people local wanna buy but do i make myselve known? my predictament is idk how to find the laws unless i say hey cops whats the laws of this and first thing they ask you is whats ur name lol .


I actually figured this stuff out today after like 4 months of trying.. 
Call your local fish/game commission. They should be able to help you out atleast to the point they give you the right phone number to call about it. 
I found out I can do whatever it is that I choose to and it's fine. 
Nothing native to the state though, that's the only no no. 
NOW, I don't know since you aren't from PA, but the thing was I then had to call the township once I figured out about the license because each one may have different ordinances regarding these things.. Even if you have a license and the township has some law against it, you still can't have them or sell them I guess..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I picked up my 2 huge whites trees frogs, 2 black eyed tree frogs (I think that's what they're called) and 5 blue/black Auratas yesterday. I was going to get a Chameleon but I didn't have extra cash for all the fancy lighting they require. There's a few websites I've been getting stuff from lately and I don't think I'll ever really get things from a local store unless it's 100% needed right then and there.. 

Everyone seems to be eating now and growing now so I think I'm doing things right. I really need to get one of those pump mister things.. This little spray bottle sucks SO bad. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Flickr: ericbradish's Photostream

New shots up, I'll get some of the Auratas today since I have to wipe the glass down when some company comes over.


----------



## dam630 (Dec 11, 2009)

Holy Crap!!!
Caffeine or ADHD???


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

dam630 said:


> Holy Crap!!!
> Caffeine or ADHD???


Regarding the pictures or the ridiculous amount of these guys I've already got? haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I was doing some reading and really hope that the law doesn't go through which basically makes having/transporting these frogs illegal unless they get some sort of testing. There goes the breeding idea if that's the case.. It also means I need to get rid of these things before the time comes. 

My life pretty much sucks in every possible way.
No ideas ever work out, ever.


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

i agree i didnt get into the hobby to breed but it is a nice kickback.. right now im working with 18 azureus from froglets to tads and what am i gona do with them if i cant ship ahhhh heres what i did , there is a exotic pet place that is certified to ship and would handle that aspect but he only buys from local breeders . maybe something can be aranged with your bigger shops or any exotic shops .. mines nice cause biggest they carry now is lizards, iguannas and such , he doesnt even carry ff or springs so thats where i double ... good luck brother !!!! dont worry get some tads ill drive to you !!!!


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I thought about the whole pet store approach, but until I have adults makin it happen regularly I don't really want to mention anything just yet. The funny thing though is this whole law nonsense is probably something to do with me starting this. haha

No I didn't actually do anything, but it's just how my luck works out. So it makes perfect sense, I get a sweet idea of a honest easy way to make money doing something I don't hate and then of course there has to be a huge ass curve ball thrown in the mix regarding legal issues.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Well I've had all of the frogs for a little while now and they're all definitely growing, even the little Lamasi that I still haven't seen eating. I thought I wanted tree frogs too but I may end up getting rid of these things, they sleep all day, sometimes for more than 2 days at a time and require crickets which smell pretty bad. So I don't really know what's going to happen with those.


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

havent heard from ya in a while . some news on my pet law issue , I can have amphibians under 8 inches which is all darts !!! i was just having luck with my azureus breeding , this wk i found both my probalbe pair of leucs are now a proven pair ! i started this hobby with tree frogs ,, um boring , lol some are awesome looking but the night cycles just suck . I like seein my frog jumping round not stuck up in a corner all day :/ ....... i always love reading your post so update often !!!!! and ofcourse if you need any azureus or leucs i think in 3 months ill have way to many to deal with lol ...


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

catman25 said:


> havent heard from ya in a while . some news on my pet law issue , I can have amphibians under 8 inches which is all darts !!! i was just having luck with my azureus breeding , this wk i found both my probalbe pair of leucs are now a proven pair ! i started this hobby with tree frogs ,, um boring , lol some are awesome looking but the night cycles just suck . I like seein my frog jumping round not stuck up in a corner all day :/ ....... i always love reading your post so update often !!!!! and ofcourse if you need any azureus or leucs i think in 3 months ill have way to many to deal with lol ...


Good news regarding the laws for you then. 
I try to keep this updated, but I'm mainly always just trying to find a sweet deal on adult pairs/trios/groups anymore since I already have enough juveniles at the current time and need to get practice with the whole egg pulling process before I have like 50 frogs breeding at once.. haha
My one Amizonicus tad is finally getting back legs! I'm pretty excited about that. The one smaller one scared me last week, it was puking food or something up and was just floating sideways. I shook the cup like 10 times and it wouldn't move. About an hour later he apparently got whatever that was out and is perfectly fine. haha

The whites tree frogs are pretty sweet since they actually move around and don't sleep for 3 days at a time, wake up only because I wake them up, shed, then go back to sleep. That's like the most boring life in existence, well I think so atleast.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I haven't got too many pictures lately, but there's a good bit more on flikr..


----------



## ktewell (Dec 17, 2009)

EricB said:


>


This one's my favorite! I've really enjoyed this thread! You should get those full-tank shots up.

Hey, best of luck with those black-eyed tree frogs. They are really getting hit pretty hard and might not exist in the wild in ten years. We need to be responsible with the ones that are already in the hobby and breed them well.

Best of luck with all of your new acquisitions!

Kevin


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

ktewell said:


> This one's my favorite! I've really enjoyed this thread! You should get those full-tank shots up.
> 
> Hey, best of luck with those black-eyed tree frogs. They are really getting hit pretty hard and might not exist in the wild in ten years. We need to be responsible with the ones that are already in the hobby and breed them well.
> 
> ...




The glass either gets all fogged up when all of the frogs are out and about or I wipe it down and they freak out and just hide somewhere. So neither of the two want to cooperate with me very well. 

The black eyes don't seem to have much care/breeding info either from what I've found atleast. They're probably the coolest looking ones I have so far but it just sucks that they sleep for days at a time. Maybe where their tank is could be too warm or cool? I honestly have no idea why or how anything could possibly be that lazy. The big whites treefrogs I have are HUGE and they're always moving around. I just wish they ate fruit flies since they're much easier to raise and are practically odorless in comparison to crickets. 

I had all intentions to breed bearded dragons as well, but from hearing they smell pretty horrible from most people on top of the fact the food they eat is the same way I may not be doing that at all. I may build some enormous tank that is basically the size of a 55g and 75g combined together to become a table and put a group of something in there. I haven't really figured out how I'd be able to water all of the plants or even feed them once the top was put on though so it's still in the researching phase. It also will take some time because I don't have nearly enough of anything to use for the substrate or even know what I'd do for lighting. 

I'd rather just have smaller tanks but I think it would be pretty sweet to have something like that as well. The only downfall is the room that would go in is where the tv and audio gear are so they'd have to be something pretty used to very regular earthquakes in order to not have a heart attack or something.. haha


----------



## ktewell (Dec 17, 2009)

EricB said:


> The black eyes don't seem to have much care/breeding info either from what I've found atleast. They're probably the coolest looking ones I have so far but it just sucks that they sleep for days at a time. Maybe where their tank is could be too warm or cool? I honestly have no idea why or how anything could possibly be that lazy.


They are so closely related to RETF's that you can just sub in a lot of the care info for them. I visited a site last summer with the two species living sympatrically (they even tried to hybridize!). If you can afford to test them for chytrid, I definitely would. They are quite susceptible to it and one of the many symptoms can be lethargy. Just keep in mind that they are entirely nocturnal and even then won't move much unless they are hunting or breeding. Temperature might be one issue, but they also require adequate ventilation. The only person I know of who has bred them in captivity is Devin of amphibiancare.com, you could email him for tips!


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

ktewell said:


> They are so closely related to RETF's that you can just sub in a lot of the care info for them. I visited a site last summer with the two species living sympatrically (they even tried to hybridize!). If you can afford to test them for chytrid, I definitely would. They are quite susceptible to it and one of the many symptoms can be lethargy. Just keep in mind that they are entirely nocturnal and even then won't move much unless they are hunting or breeding. Temperature might be one issue, but they also require adequate ventilation. The only person I know of who has bred them in captivity is Devin of amphibiancare.com, you could email him for tips!



When I first got them they were awake the whole way home and for a couple hours when they were in their new home. Then for the next couple days they woke up at random times and ate some crickets. About a week later they apparently lost all energy and basically just slept for days. I know you aren't supposed to wake them up, but not eating for like 3 days can't really be good.. I'll check that site out. I wouldn't mind getting a few more of them so I knew the chance of eggs would be much higher. The one is a good bit larger than the other, but I don't really have too much info on where these guys even came from, how old they are, or anything like I do with the darts that I have. They don't appear to be very common either from searches on places that sell them.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Little update on everything.. 

The smallest tadpole is actually getting color, the larger one had back legs pop out. The female Whites Tree Frog is officially a dumbass.. She jumps into the top of the cage over and over and over. Why I have no idea, but now she has sores on her face and I'm trying to deal with that. The black eyes apparently don't require any light what so ever to be active. I've shut all lights off in the night and they've been awake by 10 both times. It just sucks you can't really see them other than using a flashlight or something..

All of the darts seem to be doing pretty good. I've seen the little Lamasi trying to eat, but it doesn't seem very smart. It goes after the bugs that get between the lid of the QT tubs. They also apparently like loud music that vibrates because they're always out. (or they hate it and it scares them out, but they're actually social then so it's fine with me.. haha)

Everyone else is getting super fat and seem to be doing well though.
I'm still trying to get full tank shots that are actually clear but it's tricky since the second I wipe the glass clean and have all of the frogs scatter, they get all dirty and jump right where I'm trying to take a picture. I guess eventually I'll get some though..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow, but things are getting better with the tree frogs. The big girls face is looking better with some saline solution then neosporin every other day. (that's what I read to use and it's apparently working) The only thing that concerns me is the fact she tries to eat everything around her, so I have to be careful with the qtips. haha

The black eyes are awake every day and seem to be kinda active. They're only in a 10g tank right now but seem to like the coco fiber/moss substrate better than paper towels. It also makes them harder to see so maybe it makes them feel more secure? I rearranged how the tanks are and did some trimming again because I guess the plants I chose grow a bit too quickly. I'll probably put a decent amount of springtails in all of the tanks tomorrow for some maintenance. 

I guess now I just need to restock on supplies and tanks to get some more going. 

I just wish I could sell the stuff I have posted on here and craigslist so I could get some adult pairs/trios I've come across. Or even froglets for that matter.. I'd prefer adults but sometimes they're a bit too pricey for the time being.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Today was really busy so I didn't get around to getting any pictures.. 
But I picked up 2 Leucs, 4 green/bronze Auratas and 4 Vittatus tads about to have the front legs pop. 

Hopefully I get lucky with some eggs pretty soon from the Leucs, I need my practice with everything.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

First video of the Cobalts having a snack!!
I fed them earlier, but figured I'd give this a shot.

YouTube - Surinam Cobalts Having A Snack

This is from a Canon SD780IS so it isn't anything spectacular.. but it's better than I thought it would be since YouTube has a tendency to destroy video quality.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

It's been a while..

I've got some Alanis and Mint Terribilis in the time I haven't really been on here.
I've been super busy lately and haven't had much free time. 
Hopefully I can get some more frogs relatively soon to have even more of a chance of breeding to occur.

So far I heard and seen the little Morletts tree frog calling and I can't tell if a Lamasi or Cobalt is calling. I can't find videos or sound clips of either one so I have no idea who it is.. I walk over and they stop. 

Everyone is doing really good though in terms of health and growth from what it seems, so I'm pretty happy with that. My Vitattus tads all morphed out but all had sls or something. The Amizonicus were the same way. The one actually didn't even make it out of the water. My best guess on that is the fact it's too damn hot in the house. I now know to keep tads in the basement when its hot and up here when it's cold. I didn't really want to learn these things from spending money on things, but then again it doesn't make me as horrible of a parent since they weren't my childrens children. haha


Anyways, I'll try to keep this updated more often since I have a few more tanks set up and will probably be getting some more things to get the 6-12 I'll be picking up this weekend. Also, I'm still looking for adult pairs/trios/groups. So please feel free to mention what you have available. Local pickup is ideal because shipping costs are insane, and I don't really trust that because my UPS driver gets his hair cut by my aunt and she told me he's about sick of bringing heavy ass boxes and things that say fragile to my house. haha
I find that kinda amusing, but I really don't want my frogs just getting tossed on my porch. Which I'm quite sure would happen.


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

thought u died  good to see your still with us .


----------



## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

> So far I heard and seen the little Morletts tree frog calling and I can't tell if a Lamasi or Cobalt is calling. I can't find videos or sound clips of either one so I have no idea who it is.. I walk over and they stop.


If your more than a few steps away you won't be able to hear the cobalts. I had to open the lid and really listen to hear my cobalts.


----------



## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

i have 3 cobalts i got from a meet in april < is there a way to get them to call ? tried spraying and seperating and nada !


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I kinda thought it wasn't the Cobalts for the fact they just sit there and stare at me anytime around their tank.. Sometimes the one sits on the wood looking as if he's going to jump out and hope I catch him. haha

The two I separated which is most definitely a male and female are interesting. The girl is so bad.. she's climbed out when the lid was open probably 6 times now. I guess she likes exploring until she falls off the shelf and probably breaks a few limbs. I hope that doesn't happen but she hides sometimes and just hops across the tank and ends up being on top of another one. haha

Maybe it's even the yellow galacs or auratus.. I honestly have no ides because I cant get close enough to see someones throat moving. 

Catman, I'm still alive. haha
I've just been super busy trying to come up with funds for some more uncommon adult frogs and still no luck. 

I'd love some blue jeans or benedicta, but the pricetag behind those little guys is outta control.


----------



## JJhuang (Feb 5, 2010)

MP3 Poison Dart Frogs - Sounds of Poison Dart Frogs of Central and South America - Download Inspirational
Dart frog calls


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I got all of those tanks.. Scrubbing them out is probably the biggest pain in the ass ever. It's never just one tank at a time, it's always a massive group with me. haha

They all made it home alright though from a pretty far drive in the back of a truck almost all having stuff in them. 

I also picked up a leopard gecko this weekend too. I'll be doing my research to find out of it's a boy or girl and getting him/her a boyfriend or girlfriends this coming weekend at the local reptile show.

The mints are all eating well, same with the Alanis. So I guess I just can't keep tads that morph alive? 

I think when I get some more they'll go in my basement since it's like 5 times cooler and I'll build a tadpole tank with separate tubes and use water heaters if necessary like I've seen before.

I also found a local hydroponics store that has a 50L bag of hydroton for $37. I'll be getting all of it they have.. 
So sometime this week I should be having some progress made with these tanks if I can clean em all out in time. 


I'll keep this updated with pictures and progress when I make it happen..


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Pictures will be up of the Exos later tonight sometime, I still have a lot to do.
I got all the small ones ready to go, frogs are in one of them.
The lamasi is definitely the one that's been calling but there's another one I've heard but can't tell who it is.
I got a pretty bad quality video of the little guy and seen him a few times today calling, so that sound has been identified.

My whites tree frogs got a new home today, so I can clean out their old 24x18x24 Exo and start working on the "show" tank. I haven't decided where that thing is going since it's huge just yet, but it may just go on the top of a rack. I almost wish I didn't even buy that thing because it's too damn big to put anywhere. 10g and 20g tanks from now on unless I get another sweet deal on Exos/Zoo Meds. I will be getting 6 Zoo Med 12x12x18s though for the thumbnails and however many more 10g verts that will fit on the top rack in the middle of the room.

Another rack all together will be coming shortly, but I think I need to check on putting braces up so the floor doesn't cave in. That would suck pretty hard, so I guess preventative measures must be taken even though that isn't really helping with getting more frogs.

Lately I've been really busy and my mom has actually been taking care of the frogs while I've been gone. I find it surprising she doesn't mind since she's not an animal person at all, but I can't complain. Providing there's enough fruit flies (which I've dealt with and there's no longer a lack of them, there's too many) she feeds them around the same amount I do every day. And when I come home, everyone looks as healthy as when I left. 

Hopefully soon I'll be getting paid and I can get about the same amount of frogs that I currently have. I'm anxious to see if my home made fruit fly media produces as well as the ones I've purchased. Otherwise more frogs will be on hold until I get the food sorted out.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I've quickly realized an 18 cube Exo is beyond ridiculously heavy when it's planted and ready to go.. haha
Putting that thing 5 feet in the air isn't happening until help arrives. I guess it doesn't really matter though since I need a light and glass cut for it anyways. 
But it will have it's shelf space soon enough.

I got three tanks set up today and I guess they turned out half decent. 
I'm not really into the looks anymore, so if anyone thought the last ones were something special, please don't look forward to more of them being that way.
It's too expensive and time consuming. I need frogs, not fancy tanks.

However, my whites tree frogs were relocated today and I'll be cleaning out their old tank and probably let it soak for a while to clean out.
Tomorrow or whenever I get a chance really I'll be doing a Great Stuff background and that will probably be the last super fancy tank.

I know I mentioned my mom has been taking care of the frogs while I've been away working, but the real funny thing is she kinda wants a tank on the tv. I don't know what size would be best, but she really likes Exo/Zoo Med 12" cubes. I'm not sure what frogs could live in that as adults, but some of the smaller thumbnails might be alright. I wanna say dwarf tincs, but I know that will be a no no from mostly anyone. If they eat, can hide, have floor space to hop around without hitting things, I'd assume they're happy. 

Either way, I guess they're nice grow out tanks regardless of size. 

I'll be uploading the pictures after I make dinner, so if anyone's paying attention to this feel free to respond.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

It's been a while.. 
I'm on here nearly every day but I never manage to upload any pictures.
I honestly forget how to, but fortunately flickr makes that easy for me now.  haha

I've got quite a variety now since the last time I posted anything.. 

I also now want to get into lizards I guess as a back up plan if my frogs don't do their job and help me get more frogs for my time spent on them. I haven't completely decided on what I want yet, but I know some more Leopard Geckos as they're probably the easiest thing to take care of and require the least money invested in enclosures. I'm also looking into Frilled Dragons since I don't seem to hear much good things about Chameleons or Bearded Dragons. (Not good in my opinion based on conversations with others I've had) Plus that's the most dinosaur looking creature I can think of. haha

If I do go with those, they'll have a pretty sweet house with a few hundred dollars worth of foam/paint/anything else needed. But I doubt I'm using any live plants as they aren't small and require more frequent substrate changes than others. Regardless I'll still use a real substrate, not newspaper. I just can't stand how that looks.. 

I would post individual pictures from flickr, but since the link is in my sig I don't think that's really necessary. If some of you don't have an account to post comments on them, please feel free to do it on here.


----------



## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

Amazing frog room but So much more work to be done! 

Reading over this whole thread it has become obvious that you have invested a shit load on everything, and also saying you work alot. What do you do for a living to afford this lol. I want your job!! How much roughly do you think you have invested in everything? how many frogs do you have now ive lost track from what all you have mentioned lol.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

davidadelp said:


> Amazing frog room but So much more work to be done!
> 
> Reading over this whole thread it has become obvious that you have invested a shit load on everything, and also saying you work alot. What do you do for a living to afford this lol. I want your job!! How much roughly do you think you have invested in everything? how many frogs do you have now ive lost track from what all you have mentioned lol.



It's basically sub-contracting for Verizons Fios project in the Pittsburgh area.
To be completely honest, I don't really know or want to know how much I've spent so far. I try not thinking about it because it seems most people get all of this though time, not all at once. haha
I think I have around 60ish. I have all the info for them saved on my computer somewhere. I'll look into it to get an exact number.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I found an Intermedius egg developing 2 nights ago and two more eggs..
I'll update as more happens.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Grats!


----------



## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

very cool man.. love the blue jeans.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Found two more eggs on the other side of the tank this morning. 
That little guy still won't shut up, so I guess I can't complain that he's annoying anymore since he's finally making progress. haha

That first developing tad has broke out of the jelly and is now a teeny little tadpole in a film can. I haven't seen any eggs get dropped off in there for him to eat yet but there are some dead melonogasters in there so maybe it's munchin on those? However, there's been a few times I've seen the one frog go down and sit on the glass/film can where this little guy is. 


The funny part about this all is that exact film can fell off the glass about 2 weeks ago. There was NO water in it at all, and I'm picking it up trying to change the suction cup and somehow didn't smash that little guy. I wasn't really thinking there would be anything in it. Then it's like :O I so almost smashed it. I was freakin out to say the least..


I'll try to get some pictures of some tanks and the eggs and what not soon. I've been pretty busy lately and started playing WoW again. Perfect timing right?


----------



## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Horde or alliance? Odd time to start playing again, alot of people (myself included), quit until Cataclysm comes out.

Thats alot of frogs in a short amount of time!


----------



## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Okapi said:


> Horde or alliance? Odd time to start playing again, alot of people (myself included), quit until Cataclysm comes out.
> 
> Thats alot of frogs in a short amount of time!


Just a couple more weeks!!!!!!


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Okapi said:


> Horde or alliance? Odd time to start playing again, alot of people (myself included), quit until Cataclysm comes out.
> 
> Thats alot of frogs in a short amount of time!



I quit for about a year but realized my profession skills were lacking.
So I managed to get em to 450 and now the goal is better pvp gear.
Alliance on Jaedenar. I'm almost thinking of a realm transfer though because it's way too overcrowded with Horde and nobody is really into pvp on there. It's retarded, they sit there and watch the same few people die over and over while bitching in trade chat. Yet they do nothing.. haha


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

So I guess it's December a month early for me?
Tonight I just found 13 Cobalt eggs.

I seen them acting kinda weird this morning and was laughing about it, but turns out I guess that's how Tincs get down. 

Now I don't know how long these have been in there since I haven't checked for any eggs in a while, but they haven't done what they were doing today previously. 

So on that note how soon should I pull them?


Also, how do you post pictures on here? I forget.. haha


----------



## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

EricB said:


> I quit for about a year but realized my profession skills were lacking.
> So I managed to get em to 450 and now the goal is better pvp gear.
> Alliance on Jaedenar. I'm almost thinking of a realm transfer though because it's way too overcrowded with Horde and nobody is really into pvp on there. It's retarded, they sit there and watch the same few people die over and over while bitching in trade chat. Yet they do nothing.. haha


Im horde on nazjatar. The first few weeks after patch 4.0 dropped pvp was all that anyone was doing. I got almost full wrathful on two characters then leveled another one to 80 thru bgs during that time. That kinda burned me out though.


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

Okapi said:


> Im horde on nazjatar. The first few weeks after patch 4.0 dropped pvp was all that anyone was doing. I got almost full wrathful on two characters then leveled another one to 80 thru bgs during that time. That kinda burned me out though.


I'm jealous, I want wrathful gear.  haha
If I make a horde dk on that realm wanna help me level up?


----------



## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I've recently decided to change a lot of stuff in the room, yet again..
I'm debating on some new shelve sizes even though I already just got a few more and have no idea where to put them. 

Gotta love those Black Friday sales.. haha

Next weekend I'll be getting some more vivs and inhabitants.
Already filling in some space because I hate the emptyness.

Update on the Cobalts and Intermedius; I apparently pulled the Cobalt eggs too soon as they all are bad. The Intermedius tad died as they apparently forgot to feed him. However, there's another one and like 4 eggs in his film can. I think he's set! There's also another tad developing shaking around the jelly sac in another film can.

Now both pairs of Cobalts are apparently making attempts at giving me more eggs to practice with. Both females were dancing and chasing the males around the past two days. Hopefully I get some surprises before my birthday! 

Anyways, I'll try to get some pictures up of some progress being made as it happens. I'm waiting on some parts to build one rack up as the local store didn't have the pieces I needed. So there's going to be some empty space for the time being..


----------

