# Titebond III with peat



## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

So we are going to start a very large build here soon and rather than using the silicone and peat method we were considering doing something like Raf did and use a concrete binder or even the titebond III method I have been hearing about. Does anybody have some good viv pictures of a titebond III build? I keep reading that it dries hard, how do moss and other plants do on this stuff? I did do a search function and just got some half finished builds that never showed me any growth. Even pages of pages of google searches with no promising leads. I need some people with experience to maybe chime in here. thanks in advance you guys!


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I have done it on several tanks and will never go back to the concrete binder or silicone methods. Anything I have put on it has grown fine, not even any issues with it being almost always wet. The oldest tank I have it in is 4 years old now and it still looks like the day I did it. My roomate just did 8 new tanks, and all were done with Titebond too, look great, and is very easy.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Mike,
What is the best way you suggest to apply it? I've heard some laying a thick layer of Titebond and the pressing the peat on top and others premixing the Titebond and peat together before applying. 
I had mixed results with mine, but it was my first build and I came up with a few thin spots. Other areas turned out real well I think. I'm sure mine was due to lack of experience and knowledge.

Thanks, Chris.


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## Sticky Fingers (Sep 28, 2011)

I applied the titebond with paint brushes. From 3" brush to 1/8" brush. I applied the titebond first, then applied the peat. I had to do about 3 coats for it to look good. For me it was best to let it dry overnight between coats.


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## peddro (Jul 14, 2012)

i saw a thread where the guy premixed them together then put just peat on while it was still wet. looked great cuz if you missed any spots with the peat, the underneath is brown instead of seeing the pure titebond or gs


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Hey Mike, I went and searched all your threads to see if you had any shots of a tank using the titebond method, only found your one with silicone and tree fern root. I absolutely love your 110g no background setup. gorgeous. Have any shots or links to some nicely setup tanks with titebond?


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

If you dont mind my input, I used Titebond III on this tank. I may be that guy that pre mixes it with peat and apply more peat on it while it's still wet. Plants root on it with no problem and it's still holding up even in places that are constantly wet. 

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

diggenem said:


> If you dont mind my input, I used Titebond III on this tank. I may be that guy that pre mixes it with peat and apply more peat on it while it's still wet. Plants root on it with no problem and it's still holding up even in places that are constantly wet.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using Tapatalk 2


Thanks! thats a gorgeous tank. How does moss grow on the stuff? We may go with this method. Really curious to try something new.


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

peddro said:


> i saw a thread where the guy premixed them together then put just peat on while it was still wet. looked great cuz if you missed any spots with the peat, the underneath is brown instead of seeing the pure titebond or gs


I am just about to try Titebond III on my new viv. This method sounds good though, make a slurry or putty mixture with T3 and cocofiber method and then before it is dry pack a layer of just cocofiber on and then repeat if necessary.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I will get some shots tomorrow, as well as post how I make it.


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## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

interesting thread im subscribing havent built one yet just trying to gather all the info that i can


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I am happy to see more people are hoping on the wagon and helping rather than flame me and telling me to "google" or search threads lol. Appreciate it guys. I switched over here from another forums and loving it.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I'm also going to subscribe...am in the middle of making a viv with silicone, then the black aquarium Great Stuff on top, which I have Dremeled to create a porous surface to enable the growing of mosses. After reading this post, am thinking about using the Titebond III, but do not know where to get it...and what color does it dry to?? The one thing that is really appealing to me is that bare spots could be filled in, whereas the use of silicone mixed with dried moss spores, some Tufface and Toluene to thin the silicone might be more difficult...you can't apply silicone onto silicone from my understanding. So am really interested in this alternative...


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## Sticky Fingers (Sep 28, 2011)

I purchased it from Lowes. I've seen it in Home Depot and OSH.

TB3 dries kinda clear to a little yellow opacity depending on the thickness. You'll just want to make sure it's covered well in whatever top coating you choose.


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

Well I just did my first Titebond III background yesterday night. I did it just like silicone and coco fiber method where I spread on the T3 and then a layer of substrate on top. The background looks great, but it is still wet this morning. I think it will be a good 3 days before it is totally dry. Looking forward to see how it will ultimately turn out.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

am curious...what did you apply it to??? Think you'd be able to put more on if needed???


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Nismo95 said:


> Thanks! thats a gorgeous tank. How does moss grow on the stuff? We may go with this method. Really curious to try something new.


Thanks. I haven't tried to grow moss on it but it should grow with no problem. This method is a lot easier the the silicone method and a lot cheaper and more durable. 1 gallon of it is about $16. Even with the 3 sides of the tank covered I had about 1/3 of it left. The tank is 56 gallon column. I let it dry for a week just to be safe.


Sent from my HTC Evo 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

I've used T3 several times and very happy with it! Most is above water and some below water and it is holding up very well. I used brown acrylic paint to tint the T3 before adding moist peat to make a thick pudding like substance. I used chip brush to put it on in more of a "dabbing" motion then painting motion. 1st layer was thin and very spotty. I let it dry for 2 days (outside on covered porch in 95 degrees out) 2nd coat adhered much better and gave great coverage. That layer was a bit more soupy and allowed me to then layer on dry peat using fingers to "push"it into the moist 2nd layer. I also used straight T3 in some areas and pushed the peat into it. I let the dry peat sit for about 7 days and brushed it off. The under layer was very hard and the dry peat had great coverage. I've experimented with silicone/peat but the T3 was the winner as far as ease of use goes.


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

Judy S said:


> am curious...what did you apply it to??? Think you'd be able to put more on if needed???


I had made the background out of greatstuff, I then carved all of the shiny parts of the greatstuff off which I guess is un-necessary but I have always done this. I put the T3 into a small container that is easy to hold and then did the same thing as silicone application, just spread on the T3 and then sprinkle very generously the cocofiber on top. It is taking a long time to dry, but next time I will try the paste method where you make a slurry with it.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Googled the Titebond III and found some really good posts with people's experiences with it...One of the reviews gave the color:

My experiments were less than scientific, yet they were enough to convince me that Titebond III is a very good woodworking glue. When wet, the glue goes on as a light beige color, and it dries to a darker, medium-brown tone that is compatible with most woods, resulting in an almost invisible glueline. What I like most about Titebond III glue is that I can use it in colder temperatures, and it gives me more time to assemble a project.

—Chris Minick is a chemist and consulting editor for Fine Woodworking.

And compared with the II, it is more water resistant...would be considered waterproof. However, do not know whether it would be okay for complete submersion... Think I'll give it a try...thanks for the OP


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Here are pics:
This one was done with Titebond III and the Exo Terra tree fern fiber that they now offer (several sponsors sell it in different size bags). I have 6 tanks done this way that have been up and running for about 6 months now, no issues, plants grow great on it, frogs climb on it, etc.









This one is done with Titebond III and ABG. It is now about 4 years old and I have had no issues besides one small corner where some plant roots pulled it away when I tried to remove the plant, you will get this with any way of doing a background like this though (silicone, concrete binder, etc). Again, plants to great, it looks very nice, frogs climb on it, etc. The ABG mix I used is the one that Joshs has.









This one is done with Titebond III and coco fiber (the big blocks of stuff you can buy for substrate). These were just done and have not yet been used, but I see no issue why it wont work and hold up as well as the others I have.










After doing all three, my favorite is either tree fern of ABG. In the next tank that I do, I think I will do tree fern again just because I liket he way it looks the best and I can put small cuttings into the tree fern fiber easier. Again, all have worked well though, and its really open ended to whatever you would like to do.


As far as a mixture goes, I do it the same way for all of them and it is less about measurements and more about how it looks/feels. First of all, I always make sure that the substrate mix I am using is damp. Not wet, but moist to the touch. This seems to help save on the amount of glue you have to use, and it also seems to be much easier to mix and spread. I mix the glue into the substrate mix in a bucket or bowl, usually adding it as I go until I get the right consistancy. As far as consistancy, I usually look for it to be similar to very thick oatmeal, and you should also be able to see some white (the glue) in it as well. Then I just take it and spread it across however thick I want it and where ever I want. I know others have mentioned tinting the glue, but I am yet to notice it in any of the tanks I have done once it is dry. Once it is pressed onto the background (have done it over glass, silicone, great stuff, cork bark, cypress, and malaysian - worked on all!), I will let it sit. Curing time depends on your conditions, but at minimum a few days and possibly up to a week depending on temp and humidity. As it is drying, you will question if it is really going to work, but it will, at first I thought it was a huge failure but after a few more days, it got nice and hard and has lasted a very long time.

The glue itself can be bought at most hardware stores, you just want to make sure you get Titebond III, it is rated to be used around food and can handle being wet all the time pretty well. For some reason, only Lowes around me has the gallon jugs which you will want if you are doing a lot of tanks. For reference, I have done 14 tanks (6 30gallon, and 8 24 gallon tanks) with about half a gallon of glue.

In the next month or so I am redoing my display tank in my living room and will be using this method, I will be sure to take photos as I am mixing and applying so that it can be saved here somewhere for future people to use. It is definitely one of the easiest ways though, and I have had nothing but spectacular results. Feel free to post any questions or PM me.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I was considering using tree fern as well, Do you mix this with your glue as well? or lay the glue first? I kinda figured fern with glue would be harder to spread. We have done the fern with silicone in the past and we are still enjoying it.


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

I just finished my background today with Titebond 3 and I tried applying it two ways. The first way which I did on part of the background was apply it the same way you would apply the substrate material to silicone by putting the glue down and then pressing on the substrate. The second way I tried on a different area was by making a slurry or batter with the glue and substrate and just slapping it on the background, on top of that I packed on some handfuls of substrate onto the slurry because to me it looked to wet. I did this in the morning at like 6am and it is still extremely wet and looks as if it will take forever to dry. I still like this method so far because it went on fast and was way cheaper that 5 tubes of silicone.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Nismo95 said:


> I was considering using tree fern as well, Do you mix this with your glue as well? or lay the glue first? I kinda figured fern with glue would be harder to spread. We have done the fern with silicone in the past and we are still enjoying it.


I always mix it with the glue first. However, when I did the tree fern, I used a piece of egg crate to sort of screen out the really big chunks you find in the exo-terra bags of it. It wasnt nearly as bad as you would think when mixing it, and it still looked like tree fern fiber when I was done. 

As another note, I once had too much time on my hands and actually mixed tree fern and glue, put it on wax paper and made a custom sized sheet of tree fern fiber to see how it would do. Worked out great, has been in a tank for more than 3 years, and no issues. Again, mixing it first. To me it seems like trying to paint it on would be a huge pain.



repking26 said:


> I just finished my background today with Titebond 3 and I tried applying it two ways. The first way which I did on part of the background was apply it the same way you would apply the substrate material to silicone by putting the glue down and then pressing on the substrate. The second way I tried on a different area was by making a slurry or batter with the glue and substrate and just slapping it on the background, on top of that I packed on some handfuls of substrate onto the slurry because to me it looked to wet. I did this in the morning at like 6am and it is still extremely wet and looks as if it will take forever to dry. I still like this method so far because it went on fast and was way cheaper that 5 tubes of silicone.


Sounds like you probably did it right, just give it some time. If you want to speed it up, put a fan on it. You are basically waiting for all of the water to be evaporated from the glue so it can cure. Just be patient and dont play with it, at some point you will feel it and think it has dried and not stuck, but you just need to give it more time. When it is dry, it will feel rock hard.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Sorry to hijack... but has anyone had to break down one of these tanks yet? How easy would it be to scrape the background clean if you ever need to replace it?

I have always liked how i can just get a glass scraper and the silicone comes right off... No matter what happens in the tank I liked knowing that if I need to break it down and sterilize I can.

So if anyone can offer any experiences up for how easily this stuff scrapes off of glass/plastic/etc that would be appreciated.


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks Rizman for the encouragement because I was starting to get worried that I did something wrong. It is much drier when I checked on it this morning, however today after work I will put a fan on it to aid the evaporative process. 

As far as ease of removal if you need to break it down, I am not sure that it will be easy as the silicone removal. Granted I have never broken down a titebond tank, however I did spill some titebond on the table and it dried like cement!!


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Cleaning a tank would be harder than silicone, but I have cleaned many, and a razor blade will quickly clean it up to make it look like new.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Whats your experience with acrylic concrete bonder Mike? Is it worth using? or is TB3 the best option in your opinion?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

After having read the original posts about using Titebond III, got some from Lowes yesterday and spent the day reducing dry moss spores and other organics with a spice grinder and making slurries to apply to the black "great stuff" and glass walls of the viv. Just used my bare hand to smoosh it into the areas, and LOVED the method. I'd made a couple of "vines" from styro skewered onto some bendable stainless steel to make a sort of liana...and the various independent hunks of styro were painted like a tree vine, and I applied the moss/Titebond slurry onto the vines....looks really, really good. The acrylic paints will be eventually covered in real vines, and moss, but in the meantime have an attractive appearance. Having tried the clay method, the concrete method, the styro acrylic method, silicone over GS...this is, by far, the easiest. A combination of this and the cracked cork would be terrific...thanks to the OP about this background construction method.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I have used concrete binder, overall not a huge fan. It holds up well, but usually takes 2 weeks at minimum to dry, and has taken up to 3 or 4 to fully cure for me. It was also a lot harder to get the mix right in my opinion than with using Titebond III. Given, concrete binder is a lot cheaper, I also have to use a lot more of it than Titebond to get the same consistancy and results. Overall, I like the end product I get from Titebond better, and in the end even though it costs more I think it is cheaper since less goes further.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Good to know. I am sure it works great, I am just paranoid I'll spend the money and not get the result I am really after. I want something that will be soupy enough to apply with a brush. We want to build something like Raf did with his gorgeous tank and do not mind doing multiple coats of a thinned out mixture. Just want stuff to not be rock hard so pinning plants wont be an issue. We are still trying to picture exactly what we're after in a 3x3 setup.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

One of the biggest pluses for this method is no soaking, hardly any waiting....am going to try adding some acrylic paints to the white and see what happens...


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

@ Nismo - T3 is hard when it cures but you can easily pin plants to it. The initial "push" is a bit harder but not so much so that you can't readily do it. You can pick up a small bottle of T3 and experiment with it to see the end result for your self. the small bottle is about $4 at my local store. It's definitely soupy - like regular white glue when used straight out of the bottle. 

@ Mike - neat idea to use the wax paper to make your own panel!


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## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

any pics on how to do this method? are you adding straight to glass or to gs bg? thanks


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

I have added it onto GS and glass, both with excellent results.


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

Here's a few shots of a tank that I have been playing around with (Don't Laugh!) trying different methods to learn what works, doesn't and what I like then a shot of the TS with peat at the waters edge with Chirstmas Mass, Java and Riccia growing on it. The moss and Riccia are just starting to grow emersed. Once they get more growth I will slowly lower the water level. The land area is T3/Peat and the tree is pond foam, foam coat covered in epoxy. The T3 is holding great after being submersed for over 4 weeks (maybe longer) and is still rock hard. 










Here's the set up half done, Peat is finished on the back but the front only has one thin coat of T3/Peat mixture. The second coat (a bit more soupy) add and then peat pushed into it.


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## Sigaw (Apr 3, 2010)

Does it shrink when it is fully cured?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do recall a thread where the user tried this (or similar) method and it had shrunk when it had cured so he had to rework it.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Sigaw said:


> Does it shrink when it is fully cured?
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do recall a thread where the user tried this (or similar) method and it had shrunk when it had cured so he had to rework it.


I have never had an issue with it shrinking. The only way I could imagine it shrunk was if he used something that expanded a lot in water, and once the water evaporated out of it as it dried it may have shrunk.


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## Totenkampf (Jun 25, 2012)

i wish i had thought of using TBIII years ago, its a great idea. definately going to try it on my current build since i always have it around for woodworking. the resin itself dries extremely hard (even harder than the maple that i often use it for) but i would imagine that plants can still root in the organics that you mix in. i have also cut it with hot water and used it as a thin semiwaterproofing layer to keep humidity from affecting the inside of aquarium hoods.

one thought about mixing in versus pressing on organics. if you are trying to line something like a stream or waterfall with it, a layer of glue followed by additional layers slurry or glue with pressed in organics is probably best. i imagine that water could find pathways through a straight slurry mix. if you want plant roots to penetrate than a mixed slurry is probably best.

and definately let it fully cure, it does have a glycol ether in it which is probably rendered harmless after a cure.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Okay.. reviving this thread a little.. I re-read everything and I get a general idea.. Anyone wanna chime in and explain a little more about how much is just right when I mix my TB3 with our tree fern fiber?? I'd imagine enough to where its all covered but not enough to where its dripping glue.. right?? We are going to finish our background tomorrow as long as we feel prepared to use the TB3.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

After reading this tread I just used titebond on the 2 builds I'm doing


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## milkman (Dec 15, 2011)

When I've used tree fern panels in the past they would sprout random plants from them. I was wondering will tree fern still do this when mixed with tight bond 

Thank for any input

Rob


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## ChristinaK (Sep 20, 2010)

Duff said:


> . I used brown acrylic paint to tint the T3 before adding moist peat to make a thick pudding like substance


Does it matter what kind of acrylic paint you use to tint?


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