# new bugs to culture



## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

Curious to know what people culture to feed their darts other then the usual fruit flies,isos ,springs,bean beetles,rice flour beetles,and termites .I have seen pea aphids used but not sure of the level of difficulty involved. So feel free to share.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

I have tried a few others- aphids, fire rats, amphipods and milkweed bugs. The milkweed bugs are pretty straight forward but were still a little too much effort for my liking. The rest were a pain and I ended up losing them pretty quickly. I also use to raise a lot of waxworms (pre-frogs) and they are easy but on the expensive side and moths tend to get everywhere. I still want to try the micro mealworms, but not sure how frogs will respond to them.


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## gosaspursm (Mar 12, 2011)

@Jeremy, 
Were you using the baby cereal/glycerol/honey recipe for wax worms? They seem to be the only feeder I cannot culture and I believe it is due to poor culture media.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Micro mealworms are suppose to be much more active than regular mealworms. There is apparently some differences in how they are cultured and cannot be refrigerated. Anyone have any experience with them?
It would be nice if there were flies between Hydei and house fly size that could be cultured.


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

gosaspursm said:


> @Jeremy,
> Were you using the baby cereal/glycerol/honey recipe for wax worms? They seem to be the only feeder I cannot culture and I believe it is due to poor culture media.


I use bran,some honey,a piece of paraffin wax ,and wax paper.moths are a pain though as Jeremy previously stated.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i thought milkweed was toxic to most animals? so how safe are they with frogs?


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Julio said:


> i thought milkweed was toxic to most animals? so how safe are they with frogs?


You raise them on shelled sunflower seeds so no toxins. They do however have warning colors, so frogs may stay away. I did try them with a few tines and they were eaten up. The babies are about the size of a springtail too.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

gosaspursm said:


> @Jeremy,
> Were you using the baby cereal/glycerol/honey recipe for wax worms? They seem to be the only feeder I cannot culture and I believe it is due to poor culture media.


Matt, I used pablum (baby rice cereal) with honey. Nothing else. Mix it to the consistency of top soil where all the pablum is coated with honey and crumbles. I used the old Rubbermaid shoeboxes they use to make that we're low and wide. I cut out most of the lid and glued screen in. I put a layer of food in and added large grubs or pupae. The moths layer eggs in the thousands glued together alon the rim of the box under the lid. The babies are practically microscopic, about the size of newly born springtail. The cycle initially is long, but the moths live a long time and so you get staggered generations. Check the bottom of the box and when you see grubs the size you want start picking out the food and pull grubs. Keep the food until it is mostly powder. Then I add fresh food on the bottom and to one end and the mat of old food which stays intact from all the silk is layered on the other end. Withing a few days the worms will migrate to the fresh food and you can toss the old. The moths fly but harvest during the day when they are sleeping and you will rarely have them take off. They are easy to catch.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JeremyHuff said:


> You raise them on shelled sunflower seeds so no toxins. They do however have warning colors, so frogs may stay away. I did try them with a few tines and they were eaten up. The babies are about the size of a springtail too.


Based on other people's anecdotal reports wild caught frogs either didn't accept them or they were poorly accepted. 

Ed


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## bobrez (Sep 10, 2011)

Great guide thanks! also what is the best temps for wax worms? Whenever I buy them they are always too big



JeremyHuff said:


> Matt, I used pablum (baby rice cereal) with honey. Nothing else. Mix it to the consistency of top soil where all the pablum is coated with honey and crumbles. I used the old Rubbermaid shoeboxes they use to make that we're low and wide. I cut out most of the lid and glued screen in. I put a layer of food in and added large grubs or pupae. The moths layer eggs in the thousands glued together alon the rim of the box under the lid. The babies are practically microscopic, about the size of newly born springtail. The cycle initially is long, but the moths live a long time and so you get staggered generations. Check the bottom of the box and when you see grubs the size you want start picking out the food and pull grubs. Keep the food until it is mostly powder. Then I add fresh food on the bottom and to one end and the mat of old food which stays intact from all the silk is layered on the other end. Withing a few days the worms will migrate to the fresh food and you can toss the old. The moths fly but harvest during the day when they are sleeping and you will rarely have them take off. They are easy to catch.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Unless I missed thier mention, grain weevils, lesser wax worms, various pantry moths, and some of the cockroaches. 

Ed


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

bobrez said:


> Great guide thanks! also what is the best temps for wax worms? Whenever I buy them they are always too big


I also kept them at room temp, but they generate a tremendous amount of heat. It is amazing how warm the bottom of the shoebox will be when in full production.

Also, I should mention if you forget to feed them for too long, they will chew through plastic. I only had this happen once that I can remember.

When you buy them commercially, separate them from the wood shavings and place on the food mix. Most will likely pupate quickly. Don't expect to have worms for at least a month, but once they get started they really boom.

I did bug wrangling for a Snoop Dogg movie called Bones several years ago. We used probably 100,000 waxworms that I produced with about 20 cultures.


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## gosaspursm (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks Jeremy, I appreciate the detailed response.


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

Ed said:


> Unless I missed thier mention, grain weevils, lesser wax worms, various pantry moths, and some of the cockroaches.
> 
> Ed


How would I obtain grain weevils?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

marylanddartfrog said:


> How would I obtain grain weevils?


I got mine by inspecting bags of mixed birdseed at Lowes and Home Depot. Since the bags often sit there for quite awhile before being sold, they are often infested. 

They are a small weevil and much more prone to playing dead at the first disturbance than bean beetles. Collecting them can be a pain, but you can try to locate a screen of the right size. I stopped culturing them since they were very prone to mite explosions (the seed dust seems to be a great culture media for the mites) and were hard to seperate from the seeds. 

Ed


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Julio said:


> i thought milkweed was toxic to most animals? so how safe are they with frogs?


I've used milk weed aphids plenty of times with no ill effect.


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

Any luck with pea aphids?


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## gosaspursm (Mar 12, 2011)

Is anyone culturing the lesser wax worm/moth? I've been attempting to locate a culture for some time now without any luck...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

gosaspursm said:


> Is anyone culturing the lesser wax worm/moth? I've been attempting to locate a culture for some time now without any luck...


I think they are currently lost to the hobby. There were some available in the mid-1990s which were confirmed lesser waxworms. However at some point a number of people who were culturing them were also culturing one of the pantry moths and ended up having the pantry moths contaminate the lesser waxworms with a resulting loss of the cultures. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

Ed said:


> I think they are currently lost to the hobby. There were some available in the mid-1990s which were confirmed lesser waxworms. However at some point a number of people who were culturing them were also culturing one of the pantry moths and ended up having the pantry moths contaminate the lesser waxworms with a resulting loss of the cultures.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed



Smallpetfeeders.com claims to have them.they are for sale on their site.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Make sure that they aren't one of the pantry moths instead.. 

Ed


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

Ed said:


> Make sure that they aren't one of the pantry moths instead..
> 
> Ed


What's the best way to determine what they really are?


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## gosaspursm (Mar 12, 2011)

I purchased two cultures this past week. I will let you know what arrives in the mail.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

marylanddartfrog said:


> What's the best way to determine what they really are?


Key out the adults when they emerge but be sure to make sure that the adults don't escape since if they are pantry moths, they can establish them in a wide variety of products ranging from seeds, to dog treats to dog foods to cereals.... and so forth.... 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I just went on that site...looks interesting, but wonder...how do you care for them...the lessers...feed them in a dish? are they as much of a pain as the flour beetles?


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