# what to do when front legs form?



## adamradage (Jul 21, 2008)

One of my tads has started to develop one of its front legs but not the other, is this normal ? Also how long roughly will it be until the tad is ready to leave the water, because at the moment there is no areas of land in the container should i move it to a new container with sloped land?

Thanks for any advice adam radage


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## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

It is normal for one leg to pop before the other. At this point you should have it in a container that has sloping land. This way it can crawl out when its ready....sara


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

You bet it is normal for one to pop before the other. Like mentioned, put in a sterilite type container at an angle. Put same type of water you have kept the tad in. Putting some indian almond leaf or other leaf liter in for the little one(s) to hide. They will crawl out on their own and you can move to a grow out container. For the grow out container sterilite box with a substrate. I use coco fiber (many frown on this), I make sure it is damp and packed down. If any sticks to the froglet(s) too dry and they may ingest some (that is why some frown). Put in a coco hut and some leaf liter with a small dish with water (petri).


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## herper99 (Mar 21, 2008)

evolvstll said:


> Like mentioned, put in a sterilite type container at an angle. Put same type of water you have kept the tad in. Putting some indian almond leaf or other leaf liter in for the little one(s) to hide. They will crawl out on their own and you can move to a grow out container. For the grow out container sterilite box with a substrate.


This is what I do. The pictures show how I construct the containers. However, now I use the 12 quart Rubbermade containers. The egg crate fits in them better. I am in the process of making a bunch of these for my froggy friends. I am considering selling a few on the board as my friends have suggested. They are not hard to make. Material costs about $13, and about a half hour of your time. My friends are just too lazy to get the stuff and put them together. They are just plastic containers with egg crate and screen secured in with silicone. I then add some sphagnum moss to the top part of the container as shown below.
























And here is the latest little guy just coming out of the water.









Chris


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## froggiefriend (Jan 4, 2008)

I like that set up.. and what "cups" are you using to hold up the egg crate? They look like the little side dishes you get from a restaurant... ALso does the water fill the whole bottom?
Just looking for easier ways to morph out... ANd if I hijacked - I'm sorry  
Kristin


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## herper99 (Mar 21, 2008)

I actually don't use the cups any more with the Rubbermade containers. They were just little plastic condiment cups. I'll post pics of the new ones I am making in a bit. They are a little bigger and nicer. I fill the water just high enough so it is just below the egg crate. As long as they can climb up the slope onto the sphagnum moss is all you need.


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## herper99 (Mar 21, 2008)

Here are pics of the new ones.

















I hope this helps. :wink: 

Chris


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## adamradage (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks for the advice and the pics are great!, the other leg has popped out now and i have moved the tadpole into a new container with bog wood sloping out as i had none of the materials u suggested for him to climb out. The container is in a tank set up with hydroleca clay balls as a substrate and plants and leaves for hiding. i also plan on adding some of the other tadpoles into the container so they can emerge into the same tank. The dimensions of the tank are 12inches long, by 6inches wide, by 8 inches tall how many froglets can this occupy? also at the moment the tad is feeding on spirulina, blood worms and tadpole bites should the diet change to fruitflies and micro crickets when he leaves the water? cant wait till he fully morphs!

Many thanks Adam


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

all i do is empty the water from the 32 oz ff culture cup that my tad was, fill it with clean spring water about and inch or so, then prop it up on something... i usually use a 8 oz. round frog containter as the prop and then i lean the tad cups around the 8oz container can fit about 4 tad cups per 1 8oz container

pics oh btw there is nothing in two of the cups i was just showing you how u can have 4 on it at a time


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

I've got a question about multiple frogs morphing out at once. Can you have more than one frog in the species who have a tendancy to be cannibalistic in nature when tads (ex. tincs) in the same morph tank? I know that tads don't eat when morphing out because they get all their nutition from reabsorption of their tails, so is it okay to morph out several specimens in a medium sized sterilite container? I ask because I have 7-8 azureus tads morphing out at the same pace. Thanks,
Scott


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

These are all way to complicated for me  

As soon as the front legs pop on any of my tads I empty out the container of any water, I put a very wet piece of paper towel on the bottom of the container, put the froglet back in, put a cover on the container and wait for the tail to be fully absorbed.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

complicated?? you pretty much do the same thing as me, but you add in the step of adding paper towel?? If im confused about something let me know? Or a better question is, whats complicated about my process? LOL


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I guess the biggest difference is that I don't make the frogs climb out of the water, I just remove the water as soon as I see the front legs pop. The froglets are not climbing out of one container into another.

For a while I was losing perfectly good azureus tads because it seemed like they were just too stupid to climb out of the water and would eventually drown


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## moothefrog (May 16, 2008)

Maybe there parents are demented,LOL


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

We believe that tilting the cups (with water still in it) helps promote only the healthiest frogs surviving (similar to what has been posted here, but can be seen at http://joshsfrogs.blogspot.com/2008/06/ ... -dart.html we are now using wire racks and using the slits to hold the cups in place). I think that "climbing" out of the water is a natural selection weeder that should be incorporated into the hobby.



> For a while I was losing perfectly good azureus tads because it seemed like they were just too stupid to climb out of the water and would eventually drown


They may have had some form of SLS. Not all frogs with SLS die. Some live quite a long time. Some are sold at reptile shows across the country.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

joshsfrogs said:


> > For a while I was losing perfectly good azureus tads because it seemed like they were just too stupid to climb out of the water and would eventually drown
> 
> 
> They may have had some form of SLS. Not all frogs with SLS die. Some live quite a long time. Some are sold at reptile shows across the country.


Nope, that wasn't it. Couldn't really tell you for sure what their problem was though.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> Nope, that wasn't it. Couldn't really tell you for sure what their problem was though.


How do you know? We have always worked under the impression that SLS referred to a range of problems with front leg development (from weaker than normal to totally unable to get out of the water). As far as I know, there is no set criteria for a frog with SLS. I could be wrong though (wouldn't be the first time...). This is the basis of the checks we implement with our tadpoles (frogs must climb out of the water in a slanted cup and froglets must hold their body up with their front legs).


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## herper99 (Mar 21, 2008)

joshsfrogs said:


> I think that "climbing" out of the water is a natural selection weeder that should be incorporated into the hobby.


I agree.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

herper99 said:


> joshsfrogs said:
> 
> 
> > I think that "climbing" out of the water is a natural selection weeder that should be incorporated into the hobby.
> ...


Well, on paper this certainly sounds like a very good suggestion. 

So you're going by the assumption that if a tad/froglet can not find it's way to climb out of the water and keep from drowning that in some way it's "defective" and therefore shouldn't survive, whether it's SLS or something else not so obvious?

I'd be curious how often it happens that you end up having a tad/froglet drown that surprised you because by looking at it you thought it was perfectly healthy.

I guess I'm just not convinced that for whatever reason on occaision a healthy tad/froglet just doesn't manage to find it's way out of the water and drowns. Maybe it's time I gave one of these set ups another chance to see what happens.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> So you're going by the assumption that if a tad/froglet can not find it's way to climb out of the water and keep from drowning that in some way it's "defective" and therefore shouldn't survive, whether it's SLS or something else not so obvious?


Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that it is an assumption. No hard evidence to support. Just a working hypothesis.



> I'd be curious how often it happens that you end up having a tad/froglet drown that surprised you because by looking at it you thought it was perfectly healthy.


Part of why I do it is that drowning coincides with when SLS would be most probable (first froglets from a young pair, froglets from a pair that has laid many clutches in a row, etc.). We aren't talking about a lot of froglets drowning. I think I had one drown this month (out of 20-30 froglets). And that was the first froglet of the summer to drown I believe.

We also do other things to avoid SLS froglets in the first place to avoid the tadpoles making it to that point. No methylene blue, frogs supplemented twice a week and given a variety of foods, and most of our breeders are a few years old. We don't induce breeding or stop them from breeding any more. Our frog room ranges from 60-65% humidity during the winter and 70-75% during the summer, so I assume the tank humidity remains quite constant. Temps are 5 degrees cooler during the winter. So, they have a little change in the seasons.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Thanks for the info Josh.


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