# Ranitomeya vanzolinii



## edward (Apr 20, 2008)

Someone has posted R. vanzolinii for sale.
As far as I know, there has been no legal shipments
of this species from either Peru or Brazil. A few years
ago an illegal shipment was confiscated in Germany
and given to Harold Divoseen, who bred them. These
offspring from the confiscated frogs were made legal
in Germany and the rest of the EU, but not outside the EU.
Can someone please clarify?


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## allyn (Oct 6, 2008)

those are some cool looking darts but i cant find any info on the web about them. do you know any sites that have info on them?


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## Obliv79 (Oct 31, 2007)

Nope not legal here without exotic animal license and good luck getting one of them unless your a conservation officer or something along the lines of that.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Obliv79 said:


> Nope not legal here without exotic animal license and good luck getting one of them unless your a conservation officer or something along the lines of that.


???

What are you talking about?


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

edward said:


> Someone has posted R. vanzolinii for sale.
> As far as I know, there has been no legal shipments
> of this species from either Peru or Brazil. A few years
> ago an illegal shipment was confiscated in Germany
> ...


R. vanzolinii has been legally imported from the EU to the US, I have seen the USF&W approved CITES import papers.


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## Darren Meyer (May 22, 2004)

I also have seen Vansolinii papers for USA import from EU.
Happy frogging ,
Darren


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## Darren Meyer (May 22, 2004)

Here is a photo of one of the legal imoprts 
Drool away !








Happy frogging , 
Darren


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

That is just so wrong; J/k LOL incredible frog.


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## shockingelk (May 14, 2008)

These have definitely caught my eye, awesome coloring different than anything else I've seen for sale here. I hope whoever has them in the US is successful in breeding so they become more available.


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## Ronm (Oct 1, 2006)

Edward,

you're right, that's it.
On an other note, those frogs must have bred like grazy since there are quite a few to be found in Germany and the Netherlands. My quess is this was the maze in the law through wich all illegal frogs peeped through.
Ron


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

or someones information is wrong ?


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## edward (Apr 20, 2008)

really! that's all you can come up with?


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

What kind of answer do you want? You don't need to be hostile.

People in the US contacted people in the EU to purchase these frogs. Whatever EU country they were exported them from approved the export CITES paperwork, and USF&W approved the CITES import paperwork. _Ipso facto_ these imported frogs, and any offspring thereof, are legal in the US.


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## edward (Apr 20, 2008)

first of all, catfur, sports_doc's post is not an answer and yes, I am
opposed to a post that does not shed any light to the original question.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I think sports doc post is rather clear. He was making the point that with topics like this there is normally a lot of miss information, and potentially your information was wrong or dated. As Catfur stated if they have been legally brought into the US then they are legal in the US. 

So far no one has offered enough information for this to even be discussed and hearsay will not promote a worthwhile conversation.

If you have any other concerns I would suggest you shoot me a PM.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

ahh, I could not have said it better myself....in fact.. I didnt

S


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## -=Adam=- (Feb 18, 2004)

Edward,

As I mentioned in my add, feel free to email me directly if you have any questions about the vanzolinii. As others have stated, they have been legally imported multiple times from Europe to the US, and my animals will include copies of the CITES papers. Hope this helps to clear some things up,

-=Adam=-
[email protected]


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## edward (Apr 20, 2008)

thank you everyone for the input. Apologize if I have offended anyone.
I guess the main thing is, if the paperwork is in order then everything
is great.
Edward


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

-=Adam=- said:


> Edward,
> 
> As I mentioned in my add, feel free to email me directly if you have any questions about the vanzolinii. As others have stated, they have been legally imported multiple times from Europe to the US, and my animals will include copies of the CITES papers. Hope this helps to clear some things up,
> 
> ...


Its pretty sad when someone like Adam Butt who has been a staple for years and who has kept and breed almost every thing has to come on here and say that..it's not like he said he has breeding pairs of mysteriosus for sale...every one needs to relax!
Brian


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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

Brian Ferriera said:


> Its pretty sad when someone like Adam Butt who has been a staple for years and who has kept and breed almost every thing has to come on here and say that..it's not like he said he has breeding pairs of mysteriosus for sale...every one needs to relax!
> Brian


Not that I have anything against it..
BUt if they accept those Vanzolinii and can get exportation & importation for Vanzolinii. They can get Legal Mysteriosus aswell. 
In germany Mysteriosus is accepted if I remember correct, ok they don't have cites numbers for the offspring. But they don't have them either for Vanzolinii (Reason why we belgian people still can't have those gorgeous vanzolinii.. Not even with papers of Divossen)

Bear in mind that I just wanted to point out something, not offend anyone. 
I'm glad you guys have the oppertunity to keep & breed them. 

Grtz,
Thomas


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

USF&W will not approve CITES import papers for E. mysteriosus. They indicated that they would (and did) approve CITES papers for R. vanzolnii descended from Divossen's frogs. It takes two to tango here, the exporting country's CITES enforcement agency to approve export paperwork and USF&W (or some other importing country's CITES enforcement agency) to approve the import paperwork (or vice versa), and getting one set of paperwork approved is no guarantee that the other will also be approved.


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