# Most profitable groups for 10 tanks



## mattolsen (Feb 26, 2009)

So I'm not a money grubbing guy just looking to make some coin off of my frogs. However, I just got diagnosed with an autoimmune condition and have some major dental problems which are leaving me in a position where working from home has to be the objective at the moment. So my question is really "What groups do you think would be best suited for me to breed and sell best?"

I've got a 1.2 intermedius group and a 1.2 vanzo group that produces really well. I've got 2 female chazuta's who need to keep separate and have 2 males coming. Plus I've got a 0.0.3 group of orange lamasi which I may keep or sex out and get that going. I also have a 1.1 Lowland fantasticus group who have never bred for me yet. That leaves 5 tanks to fill. 2 20 gallon verts and 3 10 gallon verts. 

I've had great luck with the intermedius and vanzo's so I feel like I should stick to a frog in the range of $60-150 or so as they seem to sell a lot easier. I've thought about banded intermedius, another group of intermedius, green lamasi, etc. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Sorry for the off topic thread, I'm just trying to do the best I can with what I've got.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

The only frogs you are really going to be able to keep well in 10 gallon VERTS are certain Ranitomeya species, pumilio (can work well), and epipidobates. 

Just remember, while it is nice to gain back what you've put in as well as some extra, over breeding your frogs is very unhealthy for them, their offspring, and the hobby.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Ranitomeya variabilis (northern) can work well in ten gallon verticals....

I actually am getting into the whole "let the offspring grow out from the tank" mindset, to make it more natural....and keep the adults at a more regular pacing -- that is for as many different kinds of frogs as I can, there are of course exceptions. Breeding machines I do not desire or favor though, and I agree. I don't think it's best for the breeders in question.


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## mattolsen (Feb 26, 2009)

I should add that I'm not trying to overbreed them. I'm just looking for what'll work with what I have. I take immaculate care of my frogs and try to cycle them with varying light cycles, less water, less food, etc. to shut them off the best I can. I also supplement with repashy supp and a vitamin A once in awhile. I've had my longest group for going on 3 years now and they are in perfect health. Just trying to avoid that stigma. Not relying completely on the frogs, just trying to use it as some sort of income for a guy who is having a really hard time moving a lot. Thanks for the advice though.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. Best of luck to you.

Jake


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

It all depends on what you like. With 10 and 20 gallon verts I'd go with imitator, variabilis (including what were vents), amazonica, sirensis, flavovittata, and a few easier pumilio populations.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Would you be at all interested in trying to sell plants? I have thought that one of the few (legal) things that one could actually make a profit with in a basement grow room is miniature orchids. You can grow up a plant in a tiny footprint that can sell for $20+. Many of those little pleurothallid orchids are so easy to propagate and grow. If you could track down and propagate some less common species that the popular online stores don't carry then that could give you an edge. You would benefit from the crossover appeal too because you could sell them to frog hobbyists _and_ orchid enthusiasts.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Word to the wise if you are getting into this hobby to make money? Then you are doing it for the wrong reasons and what you put into it will take you a while to recover


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## mattolsen (Feb 26, 2009)

Julio, I've been in the hobby for over 10 years and I've been set up for awhile now. Until now, given my health stuff, I've pursued it to aid in my understanding of ecology. I use the data I collect for projects, study amphibians internationally, and volunteer for non for profit animal programs that work with kids. So, I think it's kind of rude to put an intention of what you perceive to be "for the money" above someone's rough patch. I tried to explain that what I'm trying to do is to help pay for some of my medical bills with something I know, love, and understand. 

The orchid idea is a great one, although I have been culturing feeders for a while now and am also trying to incorporate that as well. I'd love to do plants, I just don't have enough room at the moment, until I find a space to work in besides my small 10x11' space. 

6 of the tanks are 20's or bigger, so the 10's I wasn't really planning on using for breeding groups because I thought they'd be too small but if there are groups that would work in a well planted 10 I might give it a try. I'm assuming vents would be the best bet? Thanks again for the advice everyone.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

For orchids, you could stand a 55 on its end, and run a 4ft home depot t8 fixture on the side... light doesn't need to be overhead. That'd be a tiny footprint, and inexpensive.

Jake


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

jacobi said:


> For orchids, you could stand a 55 on its end, and run a 4ft home depot t8 fixture on the side... light doesn't need to be overhead. That'd be a tiny footprint, and inexpensive.
> 
> Jake


And you could grow thousands of dollars worth of miniatures in a space like that.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

The title of this thread is probably what is not settling right with many people -- highlight "MOST PROFITABLE" part -- and despite your explanations, perhaps having gone a different route would have given you better results. Just sayin'...


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

One thing you have to consider is that this hobby is constantly changing. What may be "profitable" to you now could change very quickly in the near future. 

Frogs are constantly falling in and out of favor with people... its pretty crazy but it is a reality of the hobby. You could try buying and building up a "profitable" collection that will not be nearly as profitable in a year when you start getting consistent sell-able froglets.

Keep what you love and feel passionate about. If you can make a few bucks off it eventually then great, but reaching out to people here basically asking for a business plan will put people off... Myself included.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

You guys are ridiculous, read his posts, not just the title.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Tom nailed it though. Just because they are sought after today doesn't mean a thing in the long run.



carola1155 said:


> One thing you have to consider is that this hobby is constantly changing. What may be "profitable" to you now could change very quickly in the near future.
> 
> Frogs are constantly falling in and out of favor with people... its pretty crazy but it is a reality of the hobby. You could try buying and building up a "profitable" collection that will not be nearly as profitable in a year when you start getting consistent sell-able froglets.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

frogfreak said:


> Tom nailed it though. Just because they are sought after today doesn't mean a thing in the long run.


Yes that is definitely ture. I've seen plenty of frogs go from being highly prized, to not selling at all. Some of them are pretty enough, and new enough that they still sell, but for far less than before.


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## mattolsen (Feb 26, 2009)

carola1155 said:


> One thing you have to consider is that this hobby is constantly changing. What may be "profitable" to you now could change very quickly in the near future.
> 
> Frogs are constantly falling in and out of favor with people... its pretty crazy but it is a reality of the hobby. You could try buying and building up a "profitable" collection that will not be nearly as profitable in a year when you start getting consistent sell-able froglets.
> 
> Keep what you love and feel passionate about. If you can make a few bucks off it eventually then great, but reaching out to people here basically asking for a business plan will put people off... Myself included.


I know how the hobby changes, as I've been working in it for about 8 years now. I understand that frog popularity changes and this isn't a long term thing at all, hopefully. 

I'm not trying to turn people off, nor am I neglecting my passion. I'm in a bad spot health wise and I am unable to move very much on bad days. This is a temporary way to help pay for my medical bills and hopefully once I get things under control, as I'm still awaiting a diagnosis, I have to work with what I know. Thanks for the advice though.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

hope you feel better , mate. had to deal with a similar issue when I came back from a long distance cycling trip and totally applaud the fact that you're taking proactive measures and trying to support yourself constructively

PS don't mind the assholes that can't even bother reading what you post. Many people around here have some form of irrational hate of frogs being mixed with business (well, besides those they deem as pure of intention). So just ignore the bullshit and I'm sure you'll eventually get some quality advice


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

Matt, best of look to you. Let me know if I can help you out in any way.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

All intentions aside, my one piece of advice is to consider staying away from pumilio because even if they are doing well, there is a limit to the number of froglets they can raise. I have several pairs and have not had much success getting them to breed or raising the froglets to adults. Some folks have a knack for it, but if you don't have success in the short term, you will have likely invested a lot of money and taken up space that could have been used for more reliable breeders.


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## [email protected] (Mar 12, 2012)

Matt is a great guy. I have recently dealt with him. You can really tell he is passionate about his frogs and really enjoys this hobby. If he can make a few bucks durring hard times doing something he loves, whats wrong with that? For those of you who critisize him for doing so, I have a suggestion for you. Give your froglets away for nothing if you think there is something wrong with it


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## mattolsen (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for the great advice. Honestly, I probably should have titled this post in a different way. Anyways, thanks for letting a guy know that some people are pretty damn decent. Not looking for any sympathy nor help, just honest advice. I'm a biology major with an emphasis on tropical ecology, have kept frogs for years now, and I've always loved it as a hobby and as a way to understand ecology, in some ways. We all are in this for different reasons, although that's where people like to draw lines and pronounce their beliefs, but we keep things going and it all seems to work out for the most of us. Good wishes to all of you and look forward to seeing some of you at Frog Fest this year.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

My understanding is that the most profitable species, as far as being able to easily breed, raise and sell, are often the most common, such as D. tinctorius, D. auratus, etc. You may get less per frog but you will sell them. Might also try for some terribilis, they breed like rabbits and are always in demand. Many of the less common species are for the most higher end but produce less and appeal to a smaller population of froggers. 

In any case, get well dude!


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Sorry if I seemed harsh before. However, the amount of people I have seen try and fail at making a business out of this hobby in the 5 short years I've been involved is what worries me. By all accounts Matt seems like a real nice guy and it absolutely sucks that he is having health problems. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and I hope you get it all sorted out in good time... but health issues are serious and so are the bills associated with them. I don't think this forum is really equipped for providing advice on how to create a legitimate income source to provide for medical bills.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Personally, I see nothing wrong with what you are trying to do, Matt, and I wish you the best of luck with your health and your venture into the business.

I figure it this way... More likely than not, the majority of the sponsors started out as hobbyists that grew into businesses. The classifieds are full of hobbyists selling their offspring for profit. So, if I would have no qualms purchasing from them, why would I have anything against purchasing from someone like Matt? He's been into darts for quite a while...it's not like he just popped up one day without a clue and dollar signs in his eyes.


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## 19jeffro83 (Sep 5, 2011)

Agreed, why knock a guy trying to make money that's willing to work. People here do it all the time. He's sick and not trying to get rich. Just trying to make a few more bucks. Who here isn't interested in more income? If you're not than your either well off or ignorant. His pursuit for more money is legit and he seems realistic about it. I am personally offended because most on this board are obviously fortunate enough to not have to deal with health issues. Get sick and then talk about how horible Matt is for trying to make a living instead of sucking off the system as many do. 
Feel better Matt, I respect the fact your willing to do all you can for yourself and good luck with the breeding.


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## mattolsen (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for the continual great advice and consideration. 

So my current plan is this, in terms of species. I have a rack with 4 10 verts on top and 4 20 verts on the bottom, an 18x18x24 exoterra, and a pvc tank. I'm thinking using the exoterra for 1.1 group of Chazuta, the pvc tank already houses my intermedius, 1 20 vert is vanzo's, 1 20 vert is another 1.1 of Chazuta, 1 10 gallon houses a 0.0.3 orange lamasi. 

That leaves me with 2 20 verts and 3 10 gallon verts. I'm considering setting up another vanzo tank, green lamasi, imi's, banded intermedius, baja imi's, terribilis, or tricolors. I have a shop I could sell all the azureus, leucs, auratus, and cheap tincs as I can produce but I don't feel that the 20 verts are very good for any of these bigger frogs. Any suggestions for what would be good in the 10 gallon verts? I was thinking the imi's or tricolors but am very open to suggestion. All the tanks are drilled with a misting system,seeded, planted, and have a lot of areas to hide. 

I'm thinking I'm going to sell my lowland fant 1.1 but I hate to do it. I just need the money for upcoming surgery and feel that I gave them a solid try. As I've had frogs in the past that wouldn't breed for me for anything, then as soon as I sold them they went nuts. So, even though they're my favorite in my collection I think I need to use the 20 vert for some other species. 

Thanks again to all of you who care, have kind words, or any kind of advice. I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart and am very happy to think I have friends on this forum, even though we don't know one another. You're all very kind and things are going ok right now. Working on getting surgery done asap and moving on from there. For now, just trying to stay busy with the frogs. If anyone needs anything like feeders, plants, dry goods, etc. I've always got stuff. I used to work for a big reptile shop that sells me product barely above wholesale so I can relay the discount.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Try moving the fants to a new tank. Usually new surroundings can help get things going.

All the thumbs you mentioned could go in 10 gallon tanks no problem. Also, get the Baja Huallagas! They are my favorite imitator population and I don't know of many people working with them, let alone getting good breeding. Definitely need more people working with them.


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