# Has anyone tried housing imitators with tincs?



## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Hi all just have a quick question please give me your honest opinions.

I was wondering if you believe it would be ok to house a pair of imitators with a pair of tincs in a large viv say a 40 gallon breeder for instance? 

There is no way they could form hybrids and the tincs could not come close to eating an imi so I want to know what you guys think? Would this work?
Have you tried it? 

And yes I have seen all the posts about mixing in the past and right now I do not keep any of my adult frogs in mixed tanks but I was curious about this because I had heard somebody talking about this in the past.

thanks in advance


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I know of experienced froggers who mixed imitators with larger frogs before, without any aggression or death. However, neither pair/group of frogs bred in the setups. The setups were also MUCH larger than a 40g breeder - I believe the smallest was in the neighborhood of 150 gallons. I would not attempt mixing in a 40 gallon vivarium.


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks for your input I appreciate it


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I know 2 guys with Tincs and vents, I believe.

One in a huge well planted viv with a lot of height and the other in a small 40 gallon.

The 40 gallon had great production from the vents and the Tinc species.

Both were experienced and highly competent froggers.

Due to the aggression possiblity....I would think the vents a better choice than imi's....


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## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

And your opinion about a pum and tincs in a well-planted 80g? Turns out he's a male pum -


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

guppygal said:


> And your opinion about a pum and tincs in a well-planted 80g? Turns out he's a male pum -


No to pumilio as well.......bad choice, as they are one of the most aggressive species of dart frogs.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I have had a lone male vent in with a pair of leucomelas for about 2 1/2 years now. The vent was an escapee that got out of reach behind some tanks, then managed to hop into the leuc tank as I was feeding about 20 minutes later. The leucs breed just as well as the other leucs I have - and I still haven't been able to get the vent out of the viv. I hear him call from time to time - I think he's mocking me :/


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

guppygal said:


> And your opinion about a pum and tincs in a well-planted 80g? Turns out he's a male pum -


again horrible idea. i know you just got a pum and put it in with your tincs, and you seem to think that its doing better but since you havent got the experience to back it up your assumption that the frog is doing better is really just that, a totally uninformed assumption. pumilio do well in pumilio only tanks with 1.1 or 1.2 and of the same morph, other than that your looking at some serious issues.

james


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

I remember reading a thread somewhere that someone put a mixed specied tank together and all the frogs died off slowly. The only frog left was a Pumilio? Anyone else remember this?


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

jeffr said:


> I remember reading a thread somewhere that someone put a mixed specied tank together and all the frogs died off slowly. The only frog left was a Pumilio? Anyone else remember this?


I believe Rich Frye posted something along those lines after experimenting with a few mixed vivs, maybe dig through his old posts and see if it is in there.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

I saw a pumilio wrestle and chase away an adult leucomela as well as a trio of vents in a very large exhibit at a museum in DC. They are aggressive. I have seen people from Europe who house vents with tincs, but in larger tanks. Most of the time, a lot of effort that goes into mixed tanks is to ensure that the inhabitants do not interact a lot, which would require a large tank. Personally, I would not put them together in a 40 (they would run into each other all the time) and I would rather have two small vivs for each species instead of one very large tank planned to avoid interactions between them.
Bryan


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice everyone, also good job changing the topic to pumilios whoever that was 

I have been keeping pdfs for over 8 years and imitators for about 4 years, I have never known imitators to be aggressive but I do mostly keep them in pairs or trios so that is probably why I have never had problems.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

jeffr said:


> I remember reading a thread somewhere that someone put a mixed specied tank together and all the frogs died off slowly. The only frog left was a Pumilio? Anyone else remember this?


I would not doubt that.......a mixed species viv with pumilio would have the greatest chance of epic failure IMO.

Sorry about contrib to the de-rail....


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Back to imi's and tincs.

Travis, I have a 90 gallon tank which I turned into a vert[so 36" H x 18" W x 31" D], it has of course a water feature and is well planted....

I started out with a group of nominal imitators(all over the place), two H. azureiventris(terrestrial), and two D. tinctorius azureus(terrestrial)---all juvies. When the azureus matured, they would pick on the imitators. And that was when I pulled them and put them in their own exo terra.

I lost AC for two weeks in this past June, so unfortunately lost most of the imitators(and other frogs), but the two azureiventris are still there, with the imitators, each filling a nice niche.....a lil' Peruvian biotope if you will.

Anything is possible...but space, hides, and monitoring are key I'm sure. Just my experience...


Alex


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

40B would be to short for me to mix 2 species like that comfortably...Now if you turn it into a vert then you could maybe do a pair of tincs and a couple vents or something. Pums...bad idea from everything I've ever heard...give that guy his own tank  If you are fairly new to the hobby or even either species of frog I'd save the mixing for when you've got a year or so keeping each species individually at least...or never.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

azure89 said:


> Thanks for all the advice everyone, also good job changing the topic to pumilios whoever that was
> 
> I have been keeping pdfs for over 8 years and imitators for about 4 years, I have never known imitators to be aggressive but I do mostly keep them in pairs or trios so that is probably why I have never had problems.


He's got the experience, Dave. I don't think that footprint in a vertical is really much room at all for tinctorius(18" x 16" minus space from plants/furniture). I think something like an 18" x 24" would be better floor space. You could go with the xxl exo terra (36" L x 18" W x 24" H) which is roughly a 65 gallon tank. Take a regular 65 gallon tank, and turn it into a vert so that's 3 feet high...that's even nicer for imitators, with a good foot print for tincs. Separating both, tank wise, never hurts either...


Alex


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

yours said:


> He's got the experience, Dave. I don't think that footprint in a vertical is really much room at all for tinctorius(18" x 16" minus space from plants/furniture). I think something like an 18" x 24" would be better floor space. You could go with the xxl exo terra (36" L x 18" W x 24" H) which is roughly a 65 gallon tank. Take a regular 65 gallon tank, and turn it into a vert so that's 3 feet high...that's even nicer for imitators, with a good foot print for tincs. Separating both, tank wise, never hurts either...
> 
> 
> Alex


Its more floor space then a 10gal, and most people over the years have been comfortable keeping a pair in a 10...though the push lately seems to be for more space even with just a pair. You add in the extra space and then the extra vertical area and at least I personally would have no ethical problem keeping a pair in the bottom of a 40b especially with a good hard scape and a climbable background. I don't really deduct space for plants/furniture from my evaluation of usable space if thats what you meant. 

To me that is all useable space since frogs climb on the plants, hide under them, and the same for the hard scape...also wood or rocks provide hiding places for feeders so the space has a higher biological load then it might otherwise have. Smart hardscaping can add to the usable space even, like in my 2OH, there is a hollow log, so not only can the frogs hop on the log, they can hop through it. I can't wait to put frogs in that tank and see how they take advantage of that  Of course it depends on how you scape a tank, if it is mostly a barren floor with just a couple plants then ya I'd agree not enough space but if its like I tend to do mine with levels and dense plants then I think you are good to go.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I know a number of people who keep pairs of tincs in 18 cube exo-terras. I'm not saying whether or not this is right or wrong... I'm not much of a tinc guy... _but_ turning a 40B on its side would provide only a _little_ less floor space than an 18 cube....

All this said, I think the intentional mixing of dart species of any variety is typically a bad idea (with perhaps a few _very_ rare exceptions) and should be frowned upon and avoided if possible. Too many factors. Too many things that could go wrong. Why can't your imitators go with your imitators and your tincs go with your tincs? I don't understand the desire to put two different frogs together.... Any imitator is going to look just as cool (beautiful, elegant, graceful, choose your adjective) with a tinc (and vice versa) as it would with it.

And, as most people have said, 40B is way too small.... IMO if you're not working with at least 40 or 50 gallons per frog then mixing shouldn't even be contemplated....


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

As someone who keeps mixed tanks on a number of species(primarily not darts) If you do decide to go this route let me make a couple of recommendations:

1) If possible make sure you introduce all inhabitants into the cage at the same time to avoid anyone establishing territories early and harrassing others.
2) Start with juveniles if at all possible. Animals raised together tend to be a lot less accepting of each other than animals introduce as adults. To give you a very extreme example a couple of years back I was even able to keep two male panther chameleons which I raised from hatchling together in a 175 gallon reptarium for almost two years with no negative interactions. For those not familiar with chameleons, they are much more aggressive and prone to stress then just about any dart out there.


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## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

But really, how can you tell if the frogs are stressed? 

I've had the pum for a couple of years now and I'm tickled to learn that he's an El Dorado. I didn't know that when I got him in a trade - he's disabled, having only 3 feet. A previous owner wasn't careful when putting the lid on the deli cup for transfer. I wasn't sure he'd make it, but he's doing so much better these days. Hes' been in the tinc tank for quite a while now, so I'm still waiting for him or any of the other frogs in there to 'croak'. The only changes I've seen are positive. I think this pum's aggressiveness is a little hampered by that missing right foot.

As far as experience with frogs goes, I still have most of my original group that I bought in 2003. No, it doesn't make me an expert, but I can tell if something is 'off' with any of my frogs.

IMO - sure, there are some that mix well, and others that don't. This pum is fatter and more active than he ever was in a tank by himself. That doesn't mean it's the ideal situation for every pumilio at all - maybe it's just him. He's been calling a lot lately, so I think it's time to get him a girlfriend. And a little privacy ~

Since we're on the 'mixed tank' thing again, can I suggest that when a hobbyist seeks medical help for a frog, that the issue be addressed first? There are so many threads that are answered with 'don't mix species' and blow off the urgent request for medical assistance. Geez, folks - focus already. Once the frog is taken care of, then you can jump all over the hobbyist who may or may not be mixing species. Okay - I'll get off my soapbox now -

sorry for hijacking your imi thread - btw, I DO keep my imis in a tank by themselves.


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Well thank you for all your responses and opinions, I will most likely not be mixing my tincs and imis but I did want to see what everyone thought about the idea.

Thanks to all the people who read the WHOLE thread before posting your ideas and to all the people who didn't, next time please read the whole thread before posting something because if you don't have the whole picture you may as well not say anything at all.

thanks again everyone


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