# Vanzo tads keep dying Please help



## JBuckway (Mar 15, 2012)

So I have 4 Vanzolini's (Phil Tan's line)that have started to breed for me quite regularly and are producing tadpoles. The parents are transporting them and then I collect them and put them in their own cup of RO water with a piece of magnolia leaf. I keep the water in the cups around 75 degrees and I am feeding the tads spirulina flakes that I smash up really small and I am also giving them some new life spectrum sinking pellet fish food. I have had good success raising azureus, lucs, cobalts and auratus tads with no problem. Any information or tips to keep these guys alive would be greatly appreciated.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

How are you supplementing the adults? And how old are the parents?


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## redfrogger (Nov 6, 2010)

I supplement with Repashy Ca plus at every feeding 3x a week. I use repashy Vit A two times a month. I pull vanzo tads after dad has transported them ( I don't pull eggs). I use aged tap water. I put in tadpole moss from NE herp, with a small Indian almond leaf. I Change the water(about 80%) 2x a week. I feed 2x a week after the water change. I use Doug ( pumilos) tad food. I keep the water at room temps. I have about 95% tad morph rate to fat froglets. 


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## redfrogger (Nov 6, 2010)

I do that for my vanzos and other Ranitomeya sp. 


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## JBuckway (Mar 15, 2012)

The frogs are a little under a year old. I supplement my fruit flies with rapashy's calcium plus every feeding and rapashy's vitamin A every other week and I replace my vitamins every 6 months.


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## JBuckway (Mar 15, 2012)

I also have springtails that I feed them once a week as well. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I collect them once they are transported as well. They live for about a week or 2.


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## joshbaker14t (Jun 11, 2012)

Try putting them in very shallow water. They may be drowning. 

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## joshbaker14t (Jun 11, 2012)

When they get some size to them, increase the water levels. This has helped me. They seem to be very sensitive when they are young, and quite hardy once they reach a certain size. 

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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I pretty much do the same as redfrogger above with 100% morph rate, how long are you ageing your water? are you ageing water in an open container with plenty of surface? I use a blend of Frog bites & premium fish flake finely ground. If you are needing to change the water by 80% you may be feeding too much, I have never had a Tadpole drown in a grow out container but generally pull Eggs and raise them outside the tank, you may want to leave the Tadpole in for mom to feed at least one time then try pulling. After my Tadpole break out I leave them in the Petri dish for several day's in shallow water. I hope some of this helps.


Scott


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## Ray (May 12, 2009)

dartsanddragons said:


> I pretty much do the same as redfrogger above with 100% morph rate, how long are you ageing your water? are you ageing water in an open container with plenty of surface?


I don't know diddly about frogs, but I do know RO.

Any pure water source is unbuffered, and will absorb carbon dioxide from the air, forming carbonic acid. The equilibrium pH is about 5.3, but in industrialized areas and with the general increase in CO2 content of the air, that pH is lowered. I have no idea if that is detrimental to the tads by itself, but H2CO3 is such a weak acid, that anything else you add to the water (foods? substrate?) if soluble, can overwhelm the acid, causing the pH to change pretty drastically.

Maybe totally unrelated, but something to consider.


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## JBuckway (Mar 15, 2012)

This maybe a noob question but I have never heard of aging water what exactly is that and what is the purpose of this? As far as I understand RO is the best water for frogs I use it with all my other tads and haven't had a problem.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

JBuckway said:


> This maybe a noob question but I have never heard of aging water what exactly is that and what is the purpose of this? As far as I understand RO is the best water for frogs I use it with all my other tads and haven't had a problem.


Aging water is done for several reasons. I use tap water for my tads and they do great. But then Denver Water does a very good job with our water. People using tap water will age it to remove chlorine. Unfortunately, too many people don't realize that aging tap water does NOT remove chloramines, and most, or least many, water treatment plants now use cloramines rather than chlorine. A product like DeChlor is very cheap and is much more effective in neutralizing both chlorine and chloramine.

It should also be aged overnight, in the same room as the tads are in. This will ensure they are exactly the same temperature. 

Aging may be done with indian almond, or oak leaves, to add tannins to the water. I prefer to boil it into a quick tea. You can make it very strong and store it in the fridge. Dilute it as needed to the color of light iced tea.

Fresh RO water is VERY low on dissolved oxygen. It should really be aged for at least 24 hours to allow the pH to stabilize, as Ray mentioned earlier. It can also pick up a little oxygen as it sits. When I was farming coral, we aged all RO water for at least 24 hours, with an airstone style bubbler to aerate it.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

What Ray said was what was giving me problems. I now do not ever use 100% RO water. And I've had no problems with my vanzo's since. Age of the adults can play a role also, but by one year, any thubmanail should be old enough. Sometimes it just takes them a little time. I dont think its a matter of the parents "getting it right" as if they are alreay giving you tads they are gettign it right. But, they may not be mature enough to be developing healthy eggs and sperm.


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## JBuckway (Mar 15, 2012)

Sounds like will try aging my water before hand and see if that helps any.


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## JBuckway (Mar 15, 2012)

What is the best thing to feed thumbnail tadpoles? I have had success with tincs and auratus using spirulina flakes ground up small and sinking food pellets. Anything that would be better?


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Omega one fish food. Make sure that the first or second ingredient in any fish food is not "fish meal" as it is a byproduct and not quality. I use the color enhancer Omega one. IMO, most people have gravitated away from using spriulina, except as part of a well rounded diet including other stuff.


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