# First Vivarium - Trial and Error (lots of pictures)



## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

So I started working on a vivarium because I've always wanted PDF's and I had an orchid taking over my kitchen sink area that gave me an excuse. This is the first Vivarium I've ever tried even though I've had alot of animals including a water dragon.

I've gone through 3 rebuilds and many changes all of which I consider good as I don't have the PDF's yet and so there is no stress that the animals need to be in there. I plan to let the setup sit for atleast 2 or 3 weeks before I even order a fruit fly culture which will give another couple of weeks before I get the frogs. It should be well stabalized and I should know if there are any additional problems by then.

Here is a photo journal of the trial and error. It starts off with a 20 gallon of which I have 2 that I got for free. The plan was to put one on top of the other to make it a 40 gallon tall tank. That all changed when I found out the price of a 56 gallon column wasn't as much as I thought.

On to the pictures!!!
[attachment=2:1px2nui7]Terrarium 7-08 001.jpg[/attachment:1px2nui7]
Very First Attempt

[attachment=1:1px2nui7]Terrarium 7-08 002.jpg[/attachment:1px2nui7]
Still first attempt had some flash issue on the glass

[attachment=0:1px2nui7]Terrarium 7-08 008.jpg[/attachment:1px2nui7]
Second waterfall I didn't like the other one.

Ok that was version 1 I'll make a second post for version 2 which switches to the 56 gallon tank. As you can see from the above my orchid simply didn't fit.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

Here is the first attempt on the 56 gallon.

[attachment=2:bjix68lw]Terrarium 8-08 005.jpg[/attachment:bjix68lw]
Again had flash issues on the glass.

[attachment=1:bjix68lw]Terrarium 8-08 010.jpg[/attachment:bjix68lw]
A new waterfall and I had plans to cover up all the plastic....

[attachment=0:bjix68lw]Terrarium 8-08 011.jpg[/attachment:bjix68lw]
Another top shot of course showing that orchid. Those are the roots after the trimming the longest ones....

I have a few close ups of the plants but I think you get the idea and won't spend much on this one as I soon decided I needed a false bottom instead of a small pool area


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

Now for the (hopefully) final version. I just got some of the plants in tonight and am still awaiting a couple of orders for the air plants and moss.

Here we go.....

[attachment=2:iddy2oyw]InTheWorks 002.jpg[/attachment:iddy2oyw]
The false bottom starts

[attachment=1:iddy2oyw]InTheWorks2 002.jpg[/attachment:iddy2oyw]
Waterfall in place.

[attachment=0:iddy2oyw]InTheWorks2 005.jpg[/attachment:iddy2oyw]
This is with some of the plants in and is currently how it looks. It will be getting some more including a fern, moss, and some on the background.

Let me know what you think, and there is a photo journal of trial and errors...


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## knuckles4696 (Jun 23, 2008)

nice start, what are you using as a substrate? and also do you have acces to getting leaves, some leaf litter would definetely give it a more natural look, and welcome to the boards!


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm using a mixture of Sphagnum Peat Moss, Dried (non decomposed) Sphagnum Moss, Bark, and Coco Fiber Chips. I'm not too worried about the substrate as I plan to have it covered in riccia moss and possibly some regular moss if I can get the stuff to grow. I'm a bit worried about being able to get your standard variety moss to grow in all the light but worth a try... I've ordered some spores and will see what happens.

Thanks for the welcome 

P.S. As for access to leaves unless Pine Needles count I'm a bit out of luck unless I order them online..


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

By the way if you would like to see more images and full size (warning very full size) here is a link:

http://www.dwdragon.com/mine/images/terrarium/intheworks2/


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

I'd try and get the riccia going and well established before adding the frogs, but nice tank already


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

There are 2 things I have noticed that I would like some advice on please...

The substrate immediately around the waterfall is very soggy due to some overspill. I initially thought this was fine and had plans on putting something semi aquatic or moss like there. However, after some consideration and a few days of having it run I thought I should ask if this is ok?

Another question and I think I know the answer is that the water has started to "foam" at the base of the waterfall. I assume this is from a large amount of nitrates from the water running through the substrate on both sides. I know it is not from soap or other foreign chemicals as everything was rinsed extremely well before anything was put together.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

In the first one what is the water feature in? Its not metal is it?


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

No there is nothing metal in any of the terrarium / vivariums shown. Everything is plastic, glass, rock, wood, nylon screen or foam (outdoor pond foam).


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## lamaster (Mar 22, 2008)

The foam in the water feature is common and usually goes away after the tank has been running for awhile. Water changes can help speed up the process but the foam shouldn't hurt your frogs. 

Mike


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

I've been itching to get the rest planted and do an update but the recent plants I got have had some issues.

Hopefully I can get rid of the snails out of the riccia moss I just got pretty soon. I know I'll end up with snails eventually but I'm pretty avid about not intentionally doing something "bad". I've also been trying to research a sure fire non-invasive (to the frogs) co-habitant that may do snail / slug clean up on a regualr basis. However, everything I have found seems to be a possible threat to the frogs or has completely different living condition requirements (temperature, moisture, etc.).

I'm sure I'm not the first to do this but hey never hurts to look into something just because the answer isn't totally obvious.

Also my waterplant is not fairing so well I'm not sure if it is because of an overload in the water (it's not been up long enough to balance out yet) or lack of light. I do have a full spectrum on there but it doesn't seem to reach that far forward.

I'll be doing some water changing starting next weekend if it doesn't perk up. I was trying to get the natural ecological system working and I do know that with freshwater fishtanks this is done with a short period of overload on the system to start it off nice and good then partial water changes to give the plants and algae a bit of a break until it stabalizes.

Hopefully more pictures as soon as I get the moss and new plants sorted...


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

Here are some updated pictures.

I've only been able to add a few plants and in fact have taken some out with the thought that I need more water holding bromeliads (smaller than the one I had). Hopefully I'll get those ordered this next friday but for now waiting on the Kyoto Moss Spores and soaking the riccia moss (I'm hoping snais and slugs drown..).

Had to do a side view anytime I try it straight on I get too much flash and with the flash off it's too dark.









You can see the 'Suzi Wong' Fern that I just added tonight. I have to say so far it is my favorite and I may have to get a few just for house plants!!









Here is a close up of the 'Suzi Wong' Fern. No matter how many pictures I took none of them did it justice..









And of course some new Tillandsias.









Any feed back is greatly welcomed especially if there is something I really NEED to do to make it a good PDF setup, other than the broms which I know I need to get.

I'm still messing with things as the whole "put the plants in and arrange them potted" didn't work for me. I may be losing my pond just due to stability I'm a bit afraid the rock buildup will collapse if I don't add some more in the middle. I know PDF's don't normally need ponds and with some water retaining bromeliads I don't think it will be a problem. Obviously had to remove the water plant..

I'm hoping that I can get the kyoto moss to grow over the rocks at the bottom of the waterfall. It should have the exact effect that I wanted in the first place of just a peek of an underground stream.


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## keekalmatter (Aug 9, 2008)

if your getting flash when you take the pics try and angle the camera down a little
someone told me to do that with my aquarium and it works great.
The tank looks good.


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## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Add more lights to light the viv up really bright while taking pictures that way you can take the shots without the flash. Also, if you have a camera that allows you to set the shutter speed you can use a tripod or something to set the camera on and take a long exposure and that will allow you to take the shot without the flash.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

Thanks for the photo ideas! 

I had actually planned on adding more light anyways but I've found my budget winding tighter and tighter it was all I could do to get the hood and 1 bulb. It has room for 3 so hopefully payday I can get the other 2 bulbs.

I'm not sure if my camera will let me set the exposure or not. It's fairly new and I haven't really tinkered with it much as it was just for taking picture of my daughter and such and the "auto" setting has worked perfectly fine for that.

I'll tinker with it and see what I can do. I don't have a tripod but I could build up something with boxes or what not to set it on. I do know when I've tried to do non-flash it's not only dark but very blurry (shakey hands most likely).

I am thinking of tearing the whole tank apart and re-doing it with either styrofoam/cement background or GS background. I'm trying to figure out how I would get the tree fern panels out without totally crumbling them. I siliconed them in real well! 

I think it would be best for me to tinker with the 20 gallon tanks I have first though. I've never even attempted any of this stuff and even following directions to the letter I rarely end up with the technique to get what I want the first time...


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