# maggots as a food for dart frogs



## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

Over the past few years I try several times to produce the wingless fruit flies to feed my 8 dart frogs .. the result was I loose most of them except two D. Lecumelas which I depend on Spring tails ..
An Idea brighten in my mind : Why I don't try to feed them the maggots which come from Decadent meat ? 
So My question is can I do that ? it is safe ? I don't find any clear answer in the net ? 
I want to expand my groups of frogs .. Really I cannot stop loving them ! 
If yes is there any safe and smell less method to produce maggots ? 
Thanks


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

Do you dust the flies with supplements/vitamins?

Marta


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

With 6 dead frogs in a couple years I doubt that the feeder is the issue. Everyone here feeds FF as a main diet. It has to be vitamin deficiencies or something in the husbandry.


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## Sktdvs14 (Oct 20, 2014)

If breeding FF has been a problem why not try having a culture or two delivered to you directly home. That way you don't need to worry about culturing them and have a fresh supply of ff monthly? 

I hope you find out the cause. Sucks to lose the lil guys.


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm sorry, I have to ask. I've been holding this back. 

Where... Where are you going to get maggots from decaying meat?... Or where are you going to get the decaying meat? ...

Marta


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks Guys for your help and to understand my case..This is my story: 
First of all I live here in Dubai - United Arab Emirates in Middle east desert countries and very hot climate , Everything is air conditioned here ..
The hobby of poison dart frogs here is very rare if it is not available..
I am the first one how import it in 2011 I import it and issued all the documents from authorities my source was Understory enterprises:
Dart Frogs for Sale | Understory Enterprises
They was amazing and very helpful supplier ( Actually I don’t find other one who can ship to international but those ship to Qatar previously ) .. and I don’t forget the happiness to go to the Airport to receive my frogs .. I import 4 D. leucomelas yellow banded and 4 Dendrobates auratus - El Cope..
I know before the challenge to get the live food so my first step to the food was before three months.. just I want to let you know all ... that NO suppliers for the fruits flies or any kind of live food here except the meal worms and big crickets , cock roach which all are big dedicated to lizards , snakes , ... etc . Before the frogs when I contacted ( By E Mails ) with dozens of suppliers worldwide to import from them the fruits flies .. I am looking for any one can send me the culture to start.. Also I read about the wingless flies and how to produce it and download several recipes:
1-	Bens Jungle : The first one who answer me and really appreciate it I bought from him firbe rats and woodlice and this is to expand the base of types of foods I have . 
2-	The carnivorous plant nursery (Carnivorous Plants | Carnivorous Plant Nursery) answer me and accept to ship to me the Fruit flies culture to international orders.. I order 4 small cultures.. all arrive live and start my culture using the recipe download it from Internet :
((One popular fruit fly food recipe contains potato flakes (the type used for ready-made mashed potatoes), corn flour, brewers yeast, granulated sugar, and apple cider vinegar. Mix ½ cup of potato flakes with 4 teaspoons of corn flour, 2 teaspoons of brewers yeast and ½ teaspoon of sugar. Gradually stir in apple cider vinegar until the mixture turns into a smooth paste. Never use water instead of apple cider vinegar since this type of mixture easily becomes infested with mould without the acidic vinegar. This recipe is enough for two 1-litre containers, unless they are really shallow with broad bottoms.
Make sure that the container is perfectly clean by boiling it. When it has cooled off, add the potato flake medium to the bottom of the jar; it should be roughly ¾ of an inch. Put the “ladder” (popsicles or similar) in place. Add roughly 30 wingless fruit flies to the container. 
Place a piece of cloth over the top of the container and screw on the ring. It might be tempting to use a plastic lid and simply punch a few breathing holes in it, but keep in mind that winged fruit flies are small enough to fly through such holes and take over the colony. This is not a catastrophe since most fishes will eat flying fruit flies as well with gusto, but most aquarists find the windless ones more convenient. 

After a few days, you will be able to see tiny maggots crawling at the sides of the container. As they develop, they will eventually turn into pupae. Once they have become pupae, it will take a few additional days before they are fully developed fruit flies. The exact time will depend on the temperature inside your container. If the temperature is ideal and the culture is kept moist, the entire process can take less than two weeks. )) 
But No success..!! and the original dead after two weeks ..!! I order second time this time all cultures arrive to me dead ! 
3-	I found another supplier which was really happy and helpful with me I order from him the bean beetles cultures and crickets and woodlice all arrive by DHL (express mail services) and live the second order all dead ( it is contain o 4 big cultures of fruit flies but the problem it upside down in the packet – I try to keep them live and see the maggots of fruit flies which make me very happy that I can get it .. But not survive to make another culture.. !! ( It come in May So I think the hot weather kill them ) .. The third order by Air cargo and I went to the airport to receive it .. The problem that the document not arrive with the shipment and also I don’t have permit and approval from authority because it is forbidden to import any kind of insects to UAE ?!!! until 3 AM ( Mid night I receive the big live insects shipments most of them was the beans beetles and micro crickets – because after the fails of fruit flies I decided not continue with it .. I depend now with beans beetles which are very good with me for one year after that I make several cultures of it and feed the D. leucomelas the D. Aratus refuse to eat I think because it is big for them.. step by step they starving and become very weak .. 2 of them disappear I found their bodies outside the tanks .. they try to escape but not survive .. 
The beans beetles gradually all cultures stop giving and no beetles from the end of 2012 .. 
4-	I discover the wheat beetles in old wheat pack I have in kitchen I keep it and give to the D. Lecumalas after I dust them of course .. but not too much ( One time feeding every week!! ? ) and So on .... I lose two D. leucomelas .. two become very thin but before one month I think about the maggots from decaying meat ? and I try to make one culture by putting some poultry meat ( chicken chest ) in the balcony and put a cover of plastic with holes to avoid the birds .. After two to three days I smell the natural bad smell .. and I got the maggots which are the larva of flies .. I take the decaying meat and put it in the vivarium .. the D. Lecumelas looking strangely at first and then try to test it and then eat some of them .. some of the maggots are big and can’t eaten by them .. 
Now the lecumelas become better and back to jump and producing sound like before!! They are heroes.. 
My question is this method is safe? Anyone have a smell less method for maggots? and can produce a small size of it ? any one try that .. ? Can I did it for other frogs .. ? I plan to import more frogs ( D. tinctorius – citronella , E. tricolor - santa isabella and R. Variabilis) ?
Thanks friends for your patience and attention to read my challenging and sad story with dart frogs .. 
A video of my D. leucomelas when I relieve it in June 2011: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K60TBK-z2pw


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## Tongue Flicker (Oct 30, 2014)

You could always replace the meat to avoid bad smells and cross contamination inside the tank. I can feel your dilemma as I live in Bahrain your next door neighboor across a tiny stretch of water. I've been culturing my own feeders as well, unfortunately not for darts but for my axolotls and FBTs. Blue bottle flies, black soldier flies and fruit flies to a small extent (since my scorplings need them).


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## MWAInverts (Oct 7, 2014)

I really applaud your perseverance! While maggots are good methods to quickly fatten up frogs that are malnutrition, I would be VERY concerned about the potential pathogens and other nasties the rotten meat might bring to them, and also you. Here in the states, we have tackle shops for fishers that often sell live maggots that are farm raised, maybe there's one around you as well. While I don't know how clean they actually are, it should still make things a lot simpler and cleaner for you and all you need is to dust them with vitamins!


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## s0082 (Jun 22, 2014)

Its common to feed larvae to darts from like fruit flies and technically maggots are larvae. I would not put the meat in the tank though if it was me. Maybe try plastic gloves to get them off the meet before you bring them in? I know in the wild animals die around them and the insects are out there but I would just be scared to put the actual meat in the tank. Sounds like your little guys are very hungry 
See if you can find any of the following? obviously fruit flies and crickets...
but look into isopods and sprintails and termites, beetle larvae, umm there are a few more but I have gone blank. See what cultures you can get going and and thriving over the next few months then look into more froggies.

GOOD LUCK!
Andrea


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## Engeli (Oct 3, 2014)

Maybe try to order fruit flies one more time and try different recipes for the new cultures at the same time. 
There are so many recipes for fruit flies out there and it will not always work on the first try. My fruit flies for example always died when I used anything with apples as ingredient (which is Kind of strange... ). 
Also the texture needs a bit playing around and it differs for the humidity and temperature that you have.


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

It might be useful to order a fruit fly culturing kit from a supplier in the States like Black Jungle or NEHerp or maybe a supplier in western Europe. This will come with flies, medium for culturing ,yeast, excelsior moss and everything else you need including instructions. Some good supplements should be available from the same suppliers. The important part would be to specify that they pack the bugs in an insulated container with heat or cold packs they would use for dart frog shipments so that the extremes in temperature in your area both hot and cold don't kill off your starter cultures. Perhaps a phone discussion of your needs with the vendor would also be good. Melonagaster fruit flies are very easy to grow and produce large amounts of food quickly. They are greedily eaten by the leucs and auratus I have owned and can be eaten by the froglets of these almost out of the water.
Try to insulate the frogs from abrupt changes in temps. Good Luck.


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## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

You can always feed day old criquets, they are about the same size as melanogasters. Its not gonna be cheap if you buy them every week.
But if your up for it, you can always breed your own criquets.


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks Guys for your answers and prompt reply and your Sympathy with me .. this forum is really amazing ..
before three days I make another test : I put Chicken fillet in a plastic container in the balcony with small holes to not let the big flies come in after one day I noticed something like wing fruit flies come in .. step by step after two days become to much flies ( similar to fruit flies but with wings ) the smell was very less comparing with last time .. today morning I found the larva .. I think it is a kind of fruit flies .. here is some picture 
here the type of Chicken fillet I used .. then what I found in this morning :


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

Tongue Flicker said:


> You could always replace the meat to avoid bad smells and cross contamination inside the tank. I can feel your dilemma as I live in Bahrain your next door neighbour across a tiny stretch of water. I've been culturing my own feeders as well, unfortunately not for darts but for my axolotls and FBTs. Blue bottle flies, black soldier flies and fruit flies to a small extent (since my scorplings need them).


Thanks Tongue Flicker .. 
It is very nice to hear from you ... you are close to our country ( I live in Dubai from 7 years .. originally from Iraq- Baghdad ) .. Can I know how you get the Fruit flies culture and if it is success with you ? ..


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

MWAInverts said:


> I really applaud your perseverance! While maggots are good methods to quickly fatten up frogs that are malnutrition, I would be VERY concerned about the potential pathogens and other nasties the rotten meat might bring to them, and also you. Here in the states, we have tackle shops for fishers that often sell live maggots that are farm raised, maybe there's one around you as well. While I don't know how clean they actually are, it should still make things a lot simpler and cleaner for you and all you need is to dust them with vitamins!


Thanks ... MWAInverts: 
Yes I don't want to lose more frogs and I will do anything just to let this pair live .. in the other hand I need good stable source of live food .. 
I always use gloves when I deal with the maggots but try not to touch and but the whole container inside the vivarium when it is starts producing maggots for the frogs I don't have any other live food resource just to feed them that !! the wheat beetles less quantity .. I want method to produce live food for enough frogs between 10 to 20 in several vivariums .. I need to expand my groups .. 
.. I don't search about maggots producers here but it is good to start that by myself to insure the clean area and the meat and now the source of the maggots ..


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

s0082 said:


> Its common to feed larvae to darts from like fruit flies and technically maggots are larvae. I would not put the meat in the tank though if it was me. Maybe try plastic gloves to get them off the meet before you bring them in? I know in the wild animals die around them and the insects are out there but I would just be scared to put the actual meat in the tank. Sounds like your little guys are very hungry
> See if you can find any of the following? obviously fruit flies and crickets...
> but look into isopods and sprintails and termites, beetle larvae, umm there are a few more but I have gone blank. See what cultures you can get going and and thriving over the next few months then look into more froggies.
> 
> ...


Thanks s0082 : 
Yes I put the whole culture ( the meat and larva) inside the vivarium ?!! I use a glove to touch the plastic container .. for the smell it is common in the balcony of my apartment but never smell out side the vivarium .. I think because the vivarium are sealed enough to avoid the smell ..
unfourtunatelly No body here sell cultures of what you mentioned above  .. I can not stop loving these creatures


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

Engeli said:


> Maybe try to order fruit flies one more time and try different recipes for the new cultures at the same time.
> There are so many recipes for fruit flies out there and it will not always work on the first try. My fruit flies for example always died when I used anything with apples as ingredient (which is Kind of strange... ).
> Also the texture needs a bit playing around and it differs for the humidity and temperature that you have.


Thanks .. Engeli :
Yes this is my next good I just want the weather heat to drop down in the end of this month ( drop down here mean to be 15 to 20 C  ) to import some fruit flies culture hope to be alive to start again .. guys here in this thread encourage me to do it again ..


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

RRRavelo said:


> It might be useful to order a fruit fly culturing kit from a supplier in the States like Black Jungle or NEHerp or maybe a supplier in western Europe. This will come with flies, medium for culturing ,yeast, excelsior moss and everything else you need including instructions. Some good supplements should be available from the same suppliers. The important part would be to specify that they pack the bugs in an insulated container with heat or cold packs they would use for dart frog shipments so that the extremes in temperature in your area both hot and cold don't kill off your starter cultures. Perhaps a phone discussion of your needs with the vendor would also be good. Melonagaster fruit flies are very easy to grow and produce large amounts of food quickly. They are greedily eaten by the leucs and auratus I have owned and can be eaten by the froglets of these almost out of the water.
> Try to insulate the frogs from abrupt changes in temps. Good Luck.


Yes I have .. I order from Josh frogs culture kit ( ready used ) but without fruit flies .. Importing fruit flies or any kind of insects need a approval from ministry of environment and agricultural here in the UAE which they have very restrict law .. Importing fruit flies by Post as I mentioned in my story above .. I think .. done Without their knowledge ??!! or there is a gap in the law .. when I import from Fauna topics ( From Germany ) to the airport done without custom clearance ?! .. So it is an escapade !! the officers in the post office even they don't know the law or don't know what it is inside the pack when they ask me it is for garden ? I told them YES indeed ..
This hobby really challenging  ..
I will try again with Josh frogs kit which is stored with me for three years without any use ?! because I stop fruit flies ? 
THANKS RRRavelo


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

ChRoMiS said:


> You can always feed day old criquets, they are about the same size as melanogasters. Its not gonna be cheap if you buy them every week.
> But if your up for it, you can always breed your own criquets.


Thanks ChRoMiS : 
the micro crickets not found here .. only befor months I hear here in Dubai a pet shop have crickets and cock roach .. they have micro crickets one day age but refuse to sold me that .. he want to enlarge them for bigger size I try with him serveral times with same price of the big .. but refuse ?!! 
for the cost yes this hobby broke me up .. the Bank always unhappy !!
specially in the first 6 months of 2011 when I ordered the frogs and food and every thing by post , courier which is too expensive .. the whole project cost me 3000 $ !!!!!!!!!!


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## amandakathryn (Jan 1, 2014)

fruit flies are commonly used in the study of genetics. perhaps you could try contacting a university with a gentetics program. they may have some fruit flies or be able to help you get some. you might have better luck culturing them if they dont have to be shipped so far.


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

amandakathryn said:


> fruit flies are commonly used in the study of genetics. perhaps you could try contacting a university with a gentetics program. they may have some fruit flies or be able to help you get some. you might have better luck culturing them if they dont have to be shipped so far.


Thanks .. Good Idea .. I will try it


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## amandakathryn (Jan 1, 2014)

they dont always use the flightless kind, but even if you could start cutluring the wild type (winged) flies it would at least give you a clean and less stinky source for small maggots


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## imzenko (Feb 2, 2013)

from what I read here you use meat. pretty sure this should give you the big flies. why don't you use a piece of fruit. a lot of people use banana. plus look up the different types of medium one can make themselves.


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

imzenko said:


> from what I read here you use meat. pretty sure this should give you the big flies. why don't you use a piece of fruit. a lot of people use banana. plus look up the different types of medium one can make themselves.


It will be fly type of fruit flies .. and not concentrated for daily stable feeding ?!


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## jimmy rustles (Mar 10, 2013)

Sounds like you should get the feeding regimen going before importing more frogs, otherwise I just have to say some things are just not meant to be.

I'm no biologist, but the law that you cant just import any Insects into UAE is probably not just for fun, sounds like you already imported a new species or population of beetles into UAE with your bean-beetles, that are now living in your Kellogs and maybe even in other appartments of your building complex. Dunno if they can bring new pathogens there or not, and if thats bad or not, someone with more of an idea of preservation than me should do that, just some quick thoughts, hope you understand that I dont mean that in a bad or insulting way.

Maybe you have some local aphids, that could strive on some plants on your balcony? what about the worms in dates? otherwise you could always get the bigger Crickets and let em reproduce for you.

Sounds also like you wanna escape-proof your vivs a bit more, for frogs as well as for feeders.

wishing you good luck tho, hope you'll find a way.


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

jimmy rustles said:


> Sounds like you should get the feeding regimen going before importing more frogs, otherwise I just have to say some things are just not meant to be.
> 
> I'm no biologist, but the law that you cant just import any Insects into UAE is probably not just for fun, sounds like you already imported a new species or population of beetles into UAE with your bean-beetles, that are now living in your Kellogs and maybe even in other appartments of your building complex. Dunno if they can bring new pathogens there or not, and if thats bad or not, someone with more of an idea of preservation than me should do that, just some quick thoughts, hope you understand that I dont mean that in a bad or insulting way.
> 
> ...


Thank you a lot .. Worms in Dates really good idea .. I will search for it and how I can produce it .. Also I will try the aphids ..
When I write this I search the Internet , I found a company in the UAE sold the beneficial insects in UAE for organic farms then I found something name : Live Green Lacewing 
it is good as a live food for Dart frogs ..? 
in this website .. also lady bugs ?? 
https://www.desertcart.ae/products/5381201-green-lacewing-1000-eggs-good-bugs-aphid-exterminator

Any how the people reviews and comments very disappointed .. 

Thank you very very much you guide me to new way ?!!!


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## JWerner (Feb 17, 2004)

Use the FF larvae for the cultures. They are much higher in fat and protein than the fly itself. Some elements of supplements also seem to adhere to the GI tract of the larvae. My opinion is by dusting the FF, you give the added vitamin/mineral supplement and the larvae supply the calories.


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## MWAInverts (Oct 7, 2014)

You can also try termites too, did a quick google search for Dubai and it seems there is a ton there. You can easily set traps in less populated locations you know haven't been treated with pesticides.


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

MWAInverts said:


> You can also try termites too, did a quick google search for Dubai and it seems there is a ton there. You can easily set traps in less populated locations you know haven't been treated with pesticides.


Thanks .. I find a web site sale some beneficial insects one of them a mites work as a predator but very small .. see here :
https://www.desertcart.ae/products/...cies-for-spider-mite-control-ships-next-day-l


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## MWAInverts (Oct 7, 2014)

I would skip that. You really want something they can have a meal with and while mites, isos, and springs do work, they're probably not the fast solution you're looking for. The smaller food items are more like snacks for the larger species.


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## LoganR (Oct 25, 2013)

I would avoid the meat maggot method because of potentially harmful bacteria, like _Salmonella_

As another reply suggested - try wild fruit fly maggots. Chop up some fruit and put it on your balcony instead of meat.

You could even try making media by boiling together some potato flakes and blended fruit, then add yeast (to keep down fungi), and a little vinegar (fruit flies love vinegar) put them in a container (clean and use the fly containers you already used). Leave them on your balcony and they should be colonized quickly. Once you see the fruit or media loaded with good sized larvae, add some water to flood the media a little, and the larvae will crawl up the sides. Scrape them off, dust them with your supplements and feed your frogs. If you drain the water off after you do this, you should be able to repeat the process quite a few times.


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## jimmy rustles (Mar 10, 2013)

LoganR said:


> You could even try making media by boiling together some potato flakes and blended fruit, then add yeast (to keep down fungi), and a little vinegar (fruit flies love vinegar) put them in a container (clean and use the fly containers you already used).


Ive heard that fishing groundbait from Angler shops (i.E. carp zoom) mixed with the right amount of water works also as a good media for fruit flies, maybe thats even a little easier if yuo had problems with other media-mixes.


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## imzenko (Feb 2, 2013)

eyadinuae said:


> It will be fly type of fruit flies .. and not concentrated for daily stable feeding ?!


put fruit outside. wait a few days when you see flies around it put the fruit in your vivarium with the frogs. on a small dish if you wish. it doesn't have to be a whole piece of fruit. just a small piece. if they do fly they will hang around the fruit so the frogs can pick them off the fruit. also they will lay eggs and you have future food for frogs.
wild type of fruit flies are better than flies that are breeding on the meat.
plus also look for frog forums closer to you. German, Netherlands, England all have frog forums. write about your problem to them since they are closer and would know better how laws are transporting bugs to you


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

LoganR said:


> I would avoid the meat maggot method because of potentially harmful bacteria, like _Salmonella_
> 
> As another reply suggested - try wild fruit fly maggots. Chop up some fruit and put it on your balcony instead of meat.
> 
> You could even try making media by boiling together some potato flakes and blended fruit, then add yeast (to keep down fungi), and a little vinegar (fruit flies love vinegar) put them in a container (clean and use the fly containers you already used). Leave them on your balcony and they should be colonized quickly. Once you see the fruit or media loaded with good sized larvae, add some water to flood the media a little, and the larvae will crawl up the sides. Scrape them off, dust them with your supplements and feed your frogs. If you drain the water off after you do this, you should be able to repeat the process quite a few times.


Thanks a lot .. I do now a test I put a banana juice with some vinegar and mix it together and put it in plastic container in the balcony .. tomorrow I will buy some yeast for another test .. hopefully I can get the larva safely ..


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

imzenko said:


> put fruit outside. wait a few days when you see flies around it put the fruit in your vivarium with the frogs. on a small dish if you wish. it doesn't have to be a whole piece of fruit. just a small piece. if they do fly they will hang around the fruit so the frogs can pick them off the fruit. also they will lay eggs and you have future food for frogs.
> wild type of fruit flies are better than flies that are breeding on the meat.
> plus also look for frog forums closer to you. German, Netherlands, England all have frog forums. write about your problem to them since they are closer and would know better how laws are transporting bugs to you


Thank you imzenko : 
Not too much flies will hang .. but today I put banana with some vinegar and mix it together and put it in the balcony .. did you know just from one or two months I noticed the flying type of fruit flies fly around me and in my flat but before that .. never .. may be the weather become some cold .. 
For the other forums I appreciate your idea I will try with other forums .. but the problem with our laws not their laws .. *also I will appreciate if any one here can export mefruit flies cultures with good packing and by DHL , Fedex .. *


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

MWAInverts said:


> I would skip that. You really want something they can have a meal with and while mites, isos, and springs do work, they're probably not the fast solution you're looking for. The smaller food items are more like snacks for the larger species.


 Thanks .. You understand exactly what I need .. cheap , small , slow moving and continuously production .. 
Can you guide me how I can make traps for termites ? any websites , links ..


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

Guys what you think about Lady bugs as a live food ? it is available here in UAE :


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

eyadinuae said:


> Guys what you think about Lady bugs as a live food ? it is available here in UAE :


I could be wrong, but I think ladybugs are actually poisonous and I would be very hesitant to feed them to my frogs. I would research them a whole lot more before feeding any out. 

Good luck, I hope you find some suitable fly cultures!

John


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## Tongue Flicker (Oct 30, 2014)

eyadinuae said:


> Thanks Tongue Flicker ..
> It is very nice to hear from you ... you are close to our country ( I live in Dubai from 7 years .. originally from Iraq- Baghdad ) .. Can I know how you get the Fruit flies culture and if it is success with you ? ..


I think the fruit fly things you are referring to are called fungus gnats, they are harmless bugs that swarm on anything that is prone to mold infestation. As their name suggests, they eat fungus. I sometimes give those to my fish and baby skinks wihout any ill effects.

I use two culture methods for ruit flies. One jar I use a half teaspoon of ketchup and place it in a small jar then a 2nd jar I use a small piece of mashed banana with a drop of vinegar. Cover both jars with either cheesecloth or stockings. Hold it in place with a rubber band and stand the jars on a small dish of water to prevent ants and other crawling insects from getting in.

Oh Iraq is nice, great wildlife. Too bad coz of civil strife you can't go herping there 
Me, I'm an ex-pat living in the well-off suburbs of Saar


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

at last after several days of waiting I get the SAFE larva of these - what I thought - it is a flying type of fruit flies .. Please see the photos attached it is the fruit flies ?
I just put one banana with some apple vinegar .. these flies come to the plastic packet through the holes in the lid after three days I saw these larva .. I think this method is safer than using meat .. 

Tongue Flicker : Thanks .. Yes a good wild life in Iraq .. I miss My country a lot .. any how I think you are right the flies it is not a fruit flies .. can you please just check the photos and try to confirm to me ..


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## LoganR (Oct 25, 2013)

Those are what you need. It looks like you've found a method that will work for you.


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## SDK (Aug 11, 2014)

Did you sort out getting your hands on vitamin and calcium supplements? I am not sure that I saw an answer to that from you?

Keep in mind that if you don't have a source of good quality, fresh supplements you will not be successful long term no matter what feeders you use...

If I missed that in one of your replies I apologize, and welcome to DB...

Scott


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## eyadinuae (Apr 9, 2013)

SDK said:


> Did you sort out getting your hands on vitamin and calcium supplements? I am not sure that I saw an answer to that from you?
> 
> Keep in mind that if you don't have a source of good quality, fresh supplements you will not be successful long term no matter what feeders you use...
> 
> ...


Thanks SDK : I have those in the picture used when I get some wheat beetles .. but now When I have these larva how I can mix the vitamin and supplements with them .. ? it is inside the small plastic packet and everthing is wet .. !!


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## Nat (Feb 11, 2014)

I'm not so good at finding threads that are current, but seeing that this started in 2011, and my post is only 1.5 years after the last one, how are things working for you? I sometimes mix horse or cow dung with a bit of water to attract Musca domestica flies to my salamander enclosures. It smells less than meat, and I haven't had problems with diseases. I recently read that darts eat calciworms. In UEA, you should definitely be able to attract flies, which look like wasps, but don't bite or sting. They sell calciworm bree


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## Nat (Feb 11, 2014)

They sell calciworm composting units. I would get one, but it's not dry/warm enough where I live to attract any. The flies which look like wasps will lay eggs, and the larve will crawl out into a collection bin when they've eaten enough of your compost! Did you tell them in the local pet shops that you have darts, and need to order food for them? You could also get adult crickets, and breed them in a plastic box with ventilation system.


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## Nat (Feb 11, 2014)

Lady bugs taste bad! Introducing mites will kill your springtails and any fruitfly maggots in your vivariums. Not the way to go!!! But if they sell ladybugs, probably folks have problems with aphids there. Darts love them and they're very nutritious. Try to find a farmer who will give you some aphids as a starter culture. We have two in our garden. Growing pea aphids is as simple as souking and sprouting the easiest, and using an old toothbrush to brush them into the viv. Most people feed vinegar flies to their darts, but we mistakenly call them fruitflies. Either insect should be eaten by dartfrogs, I think. Best of luck.


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