# ff media



## kim_1980 (Feb 11, 2010)

I was just wondering if some of you can tell me your own personal preferences for ff media mixture???


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

buying it


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I have never found purchased media that produces as well as the stuff I make at home. It's pretty close to the "power mix" on Doyle's Dart Den. Fruit Flies-Doyle's Dart Den


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Many people on the forums tend to equate production levels with quality as a food item when this may not be the case. There is a lot of emphasis placed on maximizing production of the fruit flies as opposed to maximizing the nutritional profile even if this results in a smaller number of flies per culture... 

I use a modified carolina biosupply mix and get good production. I add additional carotenoids to the media and keep the flies in an area where they can get a natural photoperiod which should result in conversion of provitamin A carotenoids to retinol analog. 

Ed


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

I have decent production with mainly mashed potato flakes and brewers yeast. I've added powdered sugar sometimes, and haven't noticed a large difference in production. I will add some fishfood or spirulina, or other grains from time to time (finally got rid of that old baby cereal by mixing it in). I don't have nearly the amount of frogs that many keepers on here have, though, so I always wind up with extra ffs rather than worrying about production.

My biggest battle is fighting the dry house or humid house, depending on the season. At the end of the life of a culture, it isn't uncommon for me, in the winter, to have a bunch of little ff mummies in there. In the early summer, before the AC is on and drying out the air, I have to make the mix super dry, as it absorbs the humidity quite well, and I end up with soupy media by the end of the culture. Of the two, I definitely prefer the mummies, when it's soupy, there are still flies in there.


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## Malaki33 (Dec 21, 2007)

This is a great thread,

Can any of you tell me what to put into homeade media to keep away mold please, and the proportions of such?

Thanks


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## decev (Dec 3, 2009)

I just ordered some flies from a vendor and was amazed at how many were in there. I've never approached that level of production with my cultures.. There are many variables it could be, like strain of fly or media, but I think that the main one is that this culture seems to be much more humid than any of my previous cultures. I only started culturing in early December, so I now think that mine have always been too dry.

I've used mason jars with a fine mesh screen on top, its called solar screen or something like that and its a polymer screen door material, but I now believe this lets out more moisture than the standard FF cup lid. I'm going to start trying the normal FF cups now to see if that helps.

I don't have a lot of frogs anyway, but I at least want to learn why my cultures suck compared to this one.


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## decev (Dec 3, 2009)

Malaki33 said:


> This is a great thread,
> 
> Can any of you tell me what to put into homeade media to keep away mold please, and the proportions of such?
> 
> Thanks


That's another thing. My cultures have started molding a lot, and I think it's because they've been even drier lately. That doesn't make sense really because I thought mold liked damp things, but that's been my observation over the last 2.5 months.


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

Hi Kim,

I use a modified version of the home made “Carolina Mix”.


*Ingredients:*
1 cup of powdered sugar sifted

4 teaspoons Tegosept or Methyl paraben (Mold prevention) 

1 cup of Brewers yeast / Nutritional yeast

8 cups Instant Mashed Potato flakes. 

4 cups of "Chick Starter Mash" (without antibiotics). 

2 - 3 tablespoons of cinnamon. 



*Discussion of some of the ingredients:*
I have found that I really like the cheapest brand of potato flakes that can be purchased at Walmart. It seems that the cheaper they are, the better the texture is for our purposes. In the more expensive brands, the potato buds for example, while they may produce a thicker mashed potato with their larger flakes, I’ve found that these products seem to slow setting, gelling times for the culture and that when this happens some of the ingredients will invariably settle out down into the bottom. I really don't know if this separation affects FF nutrition or yields, but I like the quicker set times and I am guessing that the nutritional value of the flies will differ when the chicken mash and nutritional yeast settles to the bottom.. The cheaper brands while they may produce thinner mashed potatoes, they seem to allow my cultures set up much faster which allows the nutrients to stay well mixed within the substrate.


I get the baby chick starter mash a local farmers coop but I’m sure that they would have it at a farmer store like “Coastal”. A ten pound bag runs $1.50 - .$2.00 I found that running the chick mash through the blender made a world of difference in how well it mixes into the culture. Before blending, the mix tended to separate out very quickly and easily from the culture. Adding the Chick Starter Mash does help to increase nutritional value and the overall yield of the flies. It contains all of the nutrients needed for young baby chicks to grow quickly.


Without the cinnamon, the culture, as it progresses and ages, does tend to develop the smell, which is something like human excrement. The cinnamon helps to counteract this and the mixture will smell rather nice. 


I mix everything in a big bowl by first adding together the powdered sugar, Methyl paraben, cinnamon and brewers yeast. Then I add the potato flakes and Chick Starter Mash, and blend everything well.

Then I store everything in gallon zip-lock bags



*The process:*
When making cultures, I use pint size canning jars which I cover with the canning lids and squares cut out of paper towels. 

I start off by microwaving a cup or so of water for two to three minutes to get it close to boiling. Sometimes it boils sometimes not, doesn't seem to matter a great deal.

While the water is heating, I measure out the amount of media that I need.

For melanogaster, I put 1/8 cup of media mix into a pint jar and then add 1/4 cup of the hot water. 
For hydei because of the longer breeding cycle, I will add 1/4 cup of media mix into the pint jar and then mix in 1/2 cup of hot water. 

If the water is hot enough, the mix will set within a few seconds. I may need to stir or shake the mix before it sets to make sure that all of the media is mixed and moist. 

Depending upon your local climate, you may need to add more or less water. For folks in Arizona's desert you probably will need to add more water, those in areas with high humidity may need to add less.

After all the dry ingredients are added together, I make up all of the cultures I am going to use for the week, all at one time, all in a matter of a couple of minutes. I keep the unused ones in the refrigerator until I am ready to add flies.

After the cultures cool slightly, I add a pinch of bakers yeast to each culture and then add a pupating media. 

As far as pupating media, I don't use coffee filters or excelsior. I found that it didn’t break down very quickly in my compost pile, so I started using "Decorative Spanish Moss." (Walmart or the Dollar Store) I find that it breaks down much quicker in the compost pile.

When I want to make a culture, out comes a jar, in go 50 or so flies, cover with a paper towel square which I have a bunch precut, write the date when each culture was started on the paper towel after I add the flies and plop it on the shelf all in less than 30 seconds.


I created an Media Culture Cost Calculator using MS Excel to track the costs of my cultures. My last batch came out to about 4 cents per culture which includes the cost of the spanish moss. Your total costs will depend upon what you get your ingredients for, but for me, this mix produces the highest FF production at the overall cheapest costs.

Also, I have had only one culture that went moldy with the black mold of death in several years of using the formula.

As Ed mentioned dusting the flies with products like Paprika is often used to dust the flies to increase the carotenoid content of the flies. In the past I’ve read that paprika might not be the best carotenoid to add, red chilli powder is another source that I have heard some have used, Others use products like Nekton Labs R Beta Red Color Bird Supplement which contain natural carotenoid Beta-carotene. 


Dave


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## wshngtn (Feb 16, 2010)

Great write-up, Dave. I'm just getting started and this was valuable information.


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

Malaki33 said:


> This is a great thread,
> 
> Can any of you tell me what to put into homeade media to keep away mold please, and the proportions of such?
> 
> Thanks





decev said:


> That's another thing. My cultures have started molding a lot, and I think it's because they've been even drier lately. That doesn't make sense really because I thought mold liked damp things, but that's been my observation over the last 2.5 months.


I use a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water to moisten the media, and don't have any mold problems.


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## decev (Dec 3, 2009)

mtolypetsupply said:


> I use a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water to moisten the media, and don't have any mold problems.


I actually do the same, and have been using the exact recipe in this thread: 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/18630-fruit-fly-culturing-mini-howto.html

My cultures have been molding up like crazy every time. Obviously each time I make a new culture with these flies its going to transfer the mold spores, but I would assume unless you are working under a hood you're going to get mold spores anyway.

I'm eventually going to order some methyl paraben and try that out.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> That's another thing. My cultures have started molding a lot, and I think it's because they've been even drier lately. That doesn't make sense really because I thought mold liked damp things, but that's been my observation over the last 2.5 months.


Yep, 90% of fruit fly culture problems are humidity related. Keep them away from your heater/AC vents and keep them humid.



> I'm eventually going to order some methyl paraben and try that out.


Methyl paraben is cheaper and works better than vinegar.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

any one use the mix that involves mashed bannanas? how does that work out? longevity?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Erikb3113 said:


> any one use the mix that involves mashed bannanas? how does that work out? longevity?


I think some people report getting fliers from using bananas.....


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

decev said:


> That's another thing. My cultures have started molding a lot, and I think it's because they've been even drier lately. That doesn't make sense really because I thought mold liked damp things, but that's been my observation over the last 2.5 months.


Commonly used mold inhibitors only work when they are wet, when the surface dries out the mold is no longer inhibited.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Erikb3113 said:


> any one use the mix that involves mashed bannanas? how does that work out? longevity?


I'll add banana to my media if there are some overripe ones laying around.. I microwave the cultures and let them cool before adding yeast and this prevents any concern about contamination with fliers. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

decev said:


> I actually do the same, and have been using the exact recipe in this thread:
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/18630-fruit-fly-culturing-mini-howto.html
> 
> My cultures have been molding up like crazy every time. Obviously each time I make a new culture with these flies its going to transfer the mold spores, but I would assume unless you are working under a hood you're going to get mold spores anyway.
> ...


I haven't had any problems with mold or mites since I started microwaving the cultures and letting them cool with the lids on them. 

Ed


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I always use vinegar and heat culture media. Here's one reason why---it might affect the frogs' nervous system, but largely it's an 'unknown'. 
It's the Toxicology section of the MSDS for methylparaben:

Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Inhalation. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals: Acute oral toxicity (LD50): >8000 mg/kg [Mouse].
Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans: Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation.
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans: Not available.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Potential Health Effects:
Skin: Causes skin irritation. Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause sensitization (contact) dermatitis, an
Eyes: Causes eye irritation.
Inhalation: May cause respiratory tract irritation.
Ingestion: May cause gastrointestinal tract irritation. System toxicity appears to be low. May affect
behavior/nervous system (ataxia, somnolence, flaccid paralysis without anesthesia)


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I have modified my recipe:

3 cups potato flakes
one ripe banana
1/4 cup molasses
1/8 cup apple cider vinegar.

Use organic ingredients where possible and clean hands thoroughly. 
Heat to boiling in a saucepan, stirring constantly to avoid burning. 
Pour 1 cup into each container, add 2 TBS yeast, then add excelsior media generously, pressing down well into the mixture.
Allow to cool on the countertop for 30 minutes before moving to the freezer. 
Makes about 5 containers' worth.


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## revolution (Aug 3, 2009)

I just use josh's frogs media. it smells good, and i have never had any problems with it. cant go wrong with it.


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