# Three frog shipments; three carriers



## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

Mods: if this should be in one of the many shipping threads already started, feel free to move it; I couldn't decide to which one I should add it.

I received three wholesale frog shipments yesterday, from three different carriers. The shipments came from different parts of the country, so I'm not sure a direct comparison can be made but, here are the results:

1. Washington (state) to Michigan via UPS: a bit more than $70; delivery was at my door before 10:30 a.m.

2. Texas to Michigan via US Postal Service (post office to post office): just under $30; package was at the Wyoming, Michigan PO by just after 10 a.m.

3. Colorado To Michigan via Fed Ex: almost $60; package arrived about 11:30 a.m.

All frogs were packed with gel packs in styrofoam coolers inside carboard boxes, two had heat packs between the cardboard and styrofoam. All arrived with temps inside the styrofoam still close to 70 degrees (it dropped to 26 degrees in Michigan during shipment).

All the frogs were healthy, happy, and active.

I'm not sure what to make of the results, but considering that USPS is the only one that allows live animal shipping without jumping through a lot of hoops, and offered the best price by far, it certainly seems like the best value. Which is interesting, because when I ship dry goods, Fed Ex ground is often much cheaper and faster the the US Postal Service.

Jim


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

As I've said before, I have always had excellent luck with USPS express service. The only hitch is that many destinations are only guaranteed as 2-day delivery. Even that is not a big problem for well packed frogs in good weather. It is still less time in transit than hauling to many shows.

FedEx ground is run completely differently than "regular" FedEx and the service is variable. Around here, FedEx ground is the least reliable service and the most likely to get you into a shouting match with dispatch because they refuse to deliver to your door for some very flimsy reasons. Of course they don't tell the person when they pay for shipping the package that the have no intention of completing the delivery as advertised. But FedEx express is very reliable and they tend to go to great lengths to make sure the package arrives where it is suppose to and on time.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

I always use USPS *UNLESS* they won't do overnight. If it's a two day location I go FEDEX. That has happened to me only once....

Very happy with USPS.


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## SusannahJoy (Jul 3, 2006)

I hate USPS. They're just really lazy here. They will not deliver to my door. They're supposed to, but they don't. I've had frogs left in my mailbox, packages left at the post office and then lost, I've been yelled at several times because my package is "still on the truck" when I can see it right behind them, but they refuse to look. I don't know what it is, until I moved here I had no problems with them. I wouldn't mind going to the post office to pick them up so much, but there's always a HUGE line, and the parking lot is terrible, so it takes at least an hour even though it's only a few blocks from my house and it's just really stressful.


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## Tripod (Jun 5, 2006)

Jim,

Sounds like great results all the way around...just some results cost (much) more that others. 

Although USPS requires more effort overall, the money saved (50-66%) is substantial given that the risk to the frogs is about even. With the cost of transportation tracking the asymptotic rise of fuel prices, it appears inevitable that the majority of frog shipments will eventually be done with USPS...or not at all.

Thank goodness there is still an affordable option for those of us that don't live in areas with a multitude of breeders and/or amphibian shows. 

Steven


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Hey how come my post was removed?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I'm uncertain as to which post you are referring to Aaron. Not something I saw (or removed). Did it actually show up on the board or could it have been one of those submittal errors where it looks like it went only it did not.

Bill


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I`ll try again. I used to use usps and loose a few shipments each year. I switched to ups so I could declare what I was shipping. Even though some packages had to be rerouted or went ground because of an omd-r label not removed from the package animals have remained up to a week in ups hands and still arrived alive and well. I had shipment die only 16 hours in usps hands before. To me the added security of the animals outweighs the difference in cost.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I saw it up on the board once, maybe I hit save or load or something, but I swear i read it in line after susannahjoys post. Is there anything feedbackish in my post?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

It looks fine to me. A check of the moderator log doesn't show any action on this thread so I don't think a post was removed.

Sorry for the inconvenience. We are still learning to use the new version  I keep hitting the wrong button on PM replys and saving them as drafts :lol: 

Bill


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Not a problem.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Aaron, according to USPS' website, if you call their office, they'll clear a shipment for live animals.

I don't know what UPS requires except an account with them.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

See for me, with the troubles I have had with USPS (cramming large packages into my small bulk bin so they wont have to walk 15 ft to my door, leaving packages clearly marked perishable out in the box when it is colder than a you know what, had plants take two weeks to get here or not arrive at all, etc etc. I probably have lost pretty close to 200 worth of plants because of rough handling or leaving in box when cold) I will not even risk sending frogs with them. Not here in MT anyway. Not to mention their supposed tracking numbers never work because they dont update them. I would rather pay the extra for shipping with fed ex express and guarantee that things will arrive safely and in a timely manner.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

housevibe7 said:


> See for me, with the troubles I have had with USPS (cramming large packages into my small bulk bin so they wont have to walk 15 ft to my door, leaving packages clearly marked perishable out in the box when it is colder than a you know what, had plants take two weeks to get here or not arrive at all, etc etc. I probably have lost pretty close to 200 worth of plants because of rough handling or leaving in box when cold) I will not even risk sending frogs with them. Not here in MT anyway. Not to mention their supposed tracking numbers never work because they dont update them. I would rather pay the extra for shipping with fed ex express and guarantee that things will arrive safely and in a timely manner.


Amen  . Guaranteed arrival and soft-handled goods are crucial to me rather than just a cheap price (for potentially nothing at all.)


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Rain_Frog said:


> Aaron, according to USPS' website, if you call their office, they'll clear a shipment for live animals.
> 
> I don't know what UPS requires except an account with them.


Ya, because of inconsistencies(the office i went to said they could but could only be delivered ground, not air) I decided to use someone who gave the added attention.


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

I saw Aarons post, and yes it did dissapear, thought maybe because he expressed an opinion about a carrier.
Anyway, i have had good luck with both Fed ex, UPS, never done USPS because they never seem to be able to gaurantee overnite to addresses i need.
I 'll tell you one thing, i was the shipper in this post from WA., using UPS, and it was Go# Dam# expensive as heck to ship 30 frogs. :shock: 
Notice how everyone is Looking for "local only" in Market place.
UPS added $20 surcharge for fuel. plus package size for this weather was a bit large as well.
Ouch... I'll be buying local for a while... :roll:


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

SusannahJoy said:


> (snip) I wouldn't mind going to the post office to pick them up so much, but there's always a HUGE line, and the parking lot is terrible, so it takes at least an hour even though it's only a few blocks from my house and it's just really stressful.


A bit of serendipity, The PO I had the package held at is the main arrival point before mail is directed to the retail offices in the city. It doesn't even sell postage, so there's hardly any customers there. I think I'll be using them again in the future, as it was a quick in-and-out trip and only about a mile from my house.
Jim


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

Tripod said:


> Jim,
> 
> Sounds like great results all the way around...just some results cost (much) more that others.
> 
> Steven


Steven
Even better results, two of the biggest azureus sold within minutes of the show opening today!
Who-Hoo!
JIm


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

porkchop said:


> I saw Aarons post, and yes it did dissapear, thought maybe because he expressed an opinion about a carrier.
> Anyway, i have had good luck with both Fed ex, UPS, never done USPS because they never seem to be able to gaurantee overnite to addresses i need.
> I 'll tell you one thing, i was the shipper in this post from WA., using UPS, and it was Go# Dam# expensive as heck to ship 30 frogs. :shock:
> Notice how everyone is Looking for "local only" in Market place.
> ...


Tony
I think it was worth it. Those are beautiful frogs. Didn't manage to sell any today, but had two customers say they were going home to put together a viv so they could pick them up at the next show!
Jim


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

housevibe7 said:


> See for me, with the troubles I have had with USPS (cramming large packages into my small bulk bin so they wont have to walk 15 ft to my door, leaving packages clearly marked perishable out in the box when it is colder than a you know what, had plants take two weeks to get here or not arrive at all, etc etc. I probably have lost pretty close to 200 worth of plants because of rough handling or leaving in box when cold) I will not even risk sending frogs with them. Not here in MT anyway. Not to mention their supposed tracking numbers never work because they dont update them. I would rather pay the extra for shipping with fed ex express and guarantee that things will arrive safely and in a timely manner.


This is a great example of how futile it is to try to estimate "risk" based on personal experience. Sarah and I live only 12 miles apart and all of our UPS, USPS, and FedEx shipments come through exactly the same terminals. And I've had by far the worst experiences with UPS and FedEx deliveries. The difference is that I have a rural address. With USPS, you know the score and have packages held at the post office or delivered to a business address in town. With the other two, having packages delivered in town is usually fine. But if someone sends a package to our rural address, the odds of success are low. I've seen clearly marked computers just left in the snow on the side of the road in plain view of the Interstate. Packages left outside to bake in the heat or freeze in the snow at random. Or packages just plain not delivered because the driver didn't want to be bothered to drive down a dirt road (and in one case, a brand new paved road). The point being that it is often that last person in the delivery chain that can be your best friend or your worst enemy. And we rarely have control over that last person in the chain. Even two people who live in the same place with essentially all the same people involved can have vastly different experiences.

I think the only assurance would be guaranteed live delivery but the last I knew, Delta Dash was the only option that provided that. Is that even available anymore?

BTW, I've never had to call ahead to label a package as live animals from USPS. I just mark "Live Tropical Frogs" on the package and it goes right through.


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

bbrock said:


> housevibe7 said:
> 
> 
> > See for me, with the troubles I have had with USPS (cramming large packages into my small bulk bin so they wont have to walk 15 ft to my door, leaving packages clearly marked perishable out in the box when it is colder than a you know what, (snip)
> ...


I've never tried it with UPS, but if I call the local Fed Ex office, and ask them to hold a package for pickup, they have been really good about it. That sidesteps the "last person in the delivery chain" who probably has to finish his route in X number of hours, or risk a bad employee evaluation.



> I think the only assurance would be guaranteed live delivery but the last I knew, Delta Dash was the only option that provided that. Is that even available anymore?


Continental must now be part of Delta, because I recently looked into getting a shipment from Texas, and the Delta website offered a number of Continental flights from Houston to Grand Rapids every day.



> BTW, I've never had to call ahead to label a package as live animals from USPS. I just mark "Live Tropical Frogs" on the package and it goes right through.


That should be the case. I've done it both ways, and it seemed like calling first "greased the wheels," so the counter staff didn't look at me like I was nuts when I handed them a box marked "live frogs."

Jim


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I just shipped out my first live frog package ever through fedex oklahoma to new jersey priority overnight.... ofcourse i said it was "tropical plant cuttings"(i didnt mark the box with anything) it got stuck in pa or tenn for a day due to the weather shutting down the airport or something....i was like WOW i have good luck this being my first shipment and all ;( 

Guess it turns out i do...they made it there alive(in 2 days grrrr).

DONT skimp on packaging  Anyways it cost 85 dollars for a 12-13 x the same at not quite 4lbs. it was packed in cardboard box with centimeter thick insulation panels and inch and half thick styro cooler with frogs and some plant cuttings i threw in as camoflage and an extra for the customer. i used a 40hr and a 60 hr heat packs between the boxes...temps werent horrible but they werent great either. 
Anyways was a lil pricey but they got there and survived, and will hopefully do well for the guy. 

Btw since it was weather and the airport shutting down that caused the late arrival they wouldnt refund the shipping cost. Good idea to check weather between the places your shipping also. i learned that lesson.


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## grendel88 (Oct 19, 2006)

I have had success using FedEx, but there is a problem with the pricing. I recently sent a dozen frogs to West Virginia and it came out to $98! I was a little upset, but didnt complain because they all got there ok. This was an admittedly large and heavy box (11x12x10 and 4 lbs). However, the website said it was only going to be $70. This happens everytime I ship. I dont charge the customer extra because I see it as being my fault. Does anyone know how I can avoid this in the future? I do like the relative safety in shipping FedEx, but if my cost for shipping doesnt improve, I may not be able to ship anymore. Maybe its time to move to the Midwest....


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Get an account.


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

Ive always wondered that ...
What does an account get you?, and does it cost you anything more monthly/Annually?


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## grendel88 (Oct 19, 2006)

This was with an account and only a 2 lbs package. The size of the box is what killed me.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

They told me it was x% cheaper if they billed it to your cc thru an account. I generally never use them except to charge shipping from another vendor to my account.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Using Google Checkout offers a great fedex discount. Do a google search for "google checkout fedex discount". I don't ship Fedex, as they do not allowed animal shipments to residences.


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

grendel88 said:


> This was an admittedly large and heavy box (11x12x10 and 4 lbs). However, the website said it was only going to be $70. This happens everytime I ship. I dont charge the customer extra because I see it as being my fault. Does anyone know how I can avoid this in the future?


I ship on a regular basis and figure that I "eat" the cost of the box, styrofoam and heat packs; why should I have to "eat" the shipping cost increases as well? I'm willing to "eat" up to $10 over the quoted approximate shipping cost, but anything over that should be (IMO) the receipient's expense. All this should be conveyed to the purchaser prior...
Your fault? I don't see it that way. You attempted to get an accurate cost via their website. You used an appropriately sized box based on the weather; the increased weight is for the frogs' safety.
For future deals, I'd suggest quoting an _approximate_ delivery cost with the understanding that additional expenses should require additional payment. I refuse to charge anything for my supplies and I expect that the receipient should pay exactly what it costs to receive the package.
Scott


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## grendel88 (Oct 19, 2006)

Well said, and I agree. From now on, I will have to post the rules of shipping, along with frogs. In addition, I have been exploring more efficient ways to ship, which I think will make things easier, although it may take a little more of my time.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

I usually take shipment of live animals via FedEx, with next day guaranteed by 10:30. Never had a hitch, until this week. Major weather delays grounded most of the flights out of Memphis, one of the major FedEx hubs- so a new group of Typhlonectes natans and a single Ambystoma mavortium arrived a full 24 hours later than originally thought. No losses, thanks to mild temps and an extremely well packed and fully insulated container.


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## grendel88 (Oct 19, 2006)

I had the same problem. In a week where I had to ship 5 different packages. All were shipped priority overnight. Of the five, 2 arrived 6 hours late, the other 3 were 30 hours late. After a lot of hair pulling and possible ulcers, all of the frogs arrived ok. The only thing I can get out of this is that I am now very confident in my ability to pack and ship. Did you still get charged for later packages? Should I contest the charges?


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I shipped for the first time ever with USPS and had good results.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

grendel88 said:


> I had the same problem. In a week where I had to ship 5 different packages. All were shipped priority overnight. Of the five, 2 arrived 6 hours late, the other 3 were 30 hours late. After a lot of hair pulling and possible ulcers, all of the frogs arrived ok. The only thing I can get out of this is that I am now very confident in my ability to pack and ship. Did you still get charged for later packages? Should I contest the charges?


Yes, contest the charges.
If you read the fine print, and read between the lines, they are not bound by the guarantee if the cause for the package being late is weather.
Still, in my experience, fedex customer service is great. Contest the charge, and you will probably get a full rebate or not get charged. Keep you're mouth shut, and you will probably be billed for what you ordered.
Be a nice vendor...if you get a rebate, also rebate you're customer


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

I've shipped fed ex and usps.....no probs. I just confirm through usps tha delivery is next day. If it is confirmed, I ship. I leave it up to the customer. I can't guarntee doa on usps but say i've never had any problems and fede ex i do guarantee doa with pics. kristy


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