# 4 Foot Vivarium Build From The Ground Up



## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Hello folks,

For 2 years now I have been planning a 120 gallon aquarium. At first I was living in a townhouse that had no room for it. The Wife agreed that once we moved I could finally have the aquarium I really wanted. 

Well after I discovered the world of vivariums I decided I rather have a 120 gallon vivarium then a 120 gallon aquarium. This brings me to current.

The plan for this build is to make the vivarium out of plywood and coat it with pond shield on the inside and paint on the outside. The vivarium dimenssions will be 2 feet wide and 4 feet long. It will be approximately 2 feet tall but I haven't settled for certain on this and may go slightly higher. The front will have sliding glass doors and one of the short sides will have a fixed glass window. The stand will have a frame made from poplar and skinned in plywood. The stand will be painted and the top will be made from poured concrete. 

The end goal of all this will be a vivarium and stand that are themselves attractive since this will be going right in the middle of my living room. My house was renovated at some point before I bought it so that it is one of those open concept jobs. The living room is open to the kitchen, dining room, etc. So this vivarium will be visible in most of the common areas of my house.

Back when this was still an aquarium stand I designed the stand to be built from 2x4s. My original design for the stand looked like this:










For the door I was going to make a completely removable panel, that way I would have full access to the sump located below the tank.










I actually made most of this stand before ultimately abandoning it. 










At the time I was making the entire thing in the single car garage of my rented townhouse. The only tools I had was a circular saw and a drill. The level of precision I was able to achieve with the circular saw and builders grade 2x4s was pretty sad. I just couldn't bring myself to actually finish the piece and use it. So instead it got turned into shop furniture in the garage of my new house. 

When I had a day off a couple of weeks ago I picked up my lumber at a local hardwood seller. I originally wanted 8/4 poplar but they had a deal going for 4/4 shorts at 2 dollars a board foot. For my area that is a pretty good deal and I was going to need to cut any boards I bought to get them into my SUV so it was an easy decision. It did mean I needed to laminate my wood together to achieve the desired thickness but that's all part of the fun ;P

Over the past couple of days I ripped the boards to width, glued up the boards to form thicker pieces and cut them to length. Today I assembled the frame using pocket holes. 

Since I went 3 dimensional with this build I decided I had enough to start my journal.

Here is the frame of the stand complete:










And here it is with the plywood sides added on:










I will also add a piece of plywood over part of the back (just there for added support against racking). I also will need to add some support in the inside corners so I can put down a sheet of plywood to act as a shelf and have it be supported. 

Then I need to figure out the doors which unlike the aquarium original, will exist and be normal cabinet doors. I will take the 'cheap' way out and instead of floating panels will just use plywood with a purely decorative frame glued on. This will all be painted so I doubt it will matter much. 

And... that's where I'm at! Hopefully folks will enjoy the show.


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## DarciD (May 23, 2020)

This is a very similar stand idea I had rumbling around in my head before I got sidetracked onto the possibility of having to build a tank. I had gotten as far as sourcing lumber from a local saw mill😬

I appreciate seeing the pictures as a step by step progression through it!


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

Greetings,

I've made some very large vivs. Prior to my current plexi/glass/wood setup I had large plywood + glass and both those vivs followed a few previous mid-size setups with plexi and plywood.

I have not worked with Pond Shield. I used West System epoxy as well as a Sherwin Williams potable water epoxy for my builds. I notice pond shield instructions mentions applying it with "a squeegee or roller" which makes me wonder if the consistency is rather thick. West System epoxy has a very paintable consistency which is very, very helpful when coating a large, 3D plywood surface.

In terms of dimensions, I would suggest more ambition in the vertical. If you are going to the trouble of building such a sturdy stand, I would push the viv's height to 36". You can still get adequate lights for that height (vivs any taller are more challenging for lighting).

Aquariums tend to stay wide/long rather than tall because reaching an arm into a deep tank is a hassle for setup and upkeep. A front-opening viv does not have that limitation and you will appreciate the extra options a taller viv presents you in terms of plants and decor.


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## Gavin9713 (Apr 6, 2014)

zb

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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

kimcmich said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I've made some very large vivs. Prior to my current plexi/glass/wood setup I had large plywood + glass and both those vivs followed a few previous mid-size setups with plexi and plywood.
> 
> ...


Pond shield like the West System has variable consistency based on additives. You mix in isopropyl alcohol for the initial coat to thin it out. There are some videos out there on how to do it. 

From Pond Armor:






Using silicone in the seams instead of fiberglass:






Old video from KingofDIY Fishkeeping:






Installing Glass:


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

Progress has been made! I have cut most of the pieces for the vivarium itself (at least the first layer) but I have not yet begun cutting the various slots/holes for ventilation/windows. 

Meanwhile on the stand front work continues. I puttied over screws and then essentially set aside the stand body to work on the top. I made a form out of 3/4" melamine. I used some leftover silicone from a bathroom remodel to seal the seems. 

I forgot to take a picture of it before I used it, but here it is after I peeled it off of the concrete.










When it came time to mix the concrete I made a huge mistake. You see I watched a video on how to do make a concrete table like a year ago. It was pretty simple and I 'thought' I remembered it accurately. Instead I left out a crucial step. The concrete I was using is rapidset motar mix. I was supposed to essentially make it according to the bag (with slightly more water) and then add some plasticizer to give the concrete a much lower viscosity making it pourable. I definitely forgot the darn plasticizer. I had three 55 lb bags of concrete. The first half of the first bag was essentially made to the package directions and it was THICK when I poured it into my mold. I immediately realized I screwed up and started mixing in more water, like double what the bag called for. This gave me a more pourable mix but it still wasn't as good as if I had used the darn plasticizer to begin with. The rest of the concrete was made with double water till I filled my mold. But the damage was done with that first half bucket. I got quite a few gaps around the sides. 

I used a jig saw (without a blade) clamped to the buttom of my table to vibrate the whole thing and this cut down on the number of bubbles but anywhere where the first half bucket came down I got a lot of voids and bubbles. 

Here is how the concrete top looked after I dumped it out of the mold:










You can see some pretty big voids around the sides in the front if you look for them. They are much more noticeable in person.

I didn't want to scrap this attempt so I decided to try and fill these voids. I literally used up all the mortar mix I had making this slab so I decided to try some grout patch I had left over from another project. I'm glad I did as it worked extremely well. Here is how it looked after I added the grout but before I sanded it down:










And here it is after I wet sanded the slab:










Pretty happy with how it turned out in the end. Not super noticeable in the picture but the darker grout patch makes it look like I purposely created the voids.

Anyway that brings me up to current. Next step is to sand the stand down a bunch to take the edge off the corners and then I can begin painting on primer.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Keep the updates coming!


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

Progress has been made! Since I last posted I was able to apply a coat of killz primer throughout the stand. Here is how that looked:










Though its not pictured I did end up adding another support in the middle of the back wall. Completely unneeded for a vivarium but if I ever decide to put a 120 gallon aquarium on top of this stand, that back support will provide good piece of mind.

After that it was time to work on the doors. The proper way to make a door is what is called a floating panel where the door is a solid wood panel with the middle trapped but not glued inside a frame. For a stand I was not going to bother doing that. Instead I cheated... heavily and used 1/2" plywood with wood glued directly to it on 2 of the 3 sides. Here is what that looked like:



















Once the doors were glued up it was time to turn my attention to painting. I chose BEHR Marquee One-Coat "Imperial Gray" PPU26-02. I used an exterior paint to go with it as well. I am pretty happy with the result. I chose some pretty basic hinges, handles, and magnetic closures and tada:










Here is a slightly closer look at the concrete top while it was sitting around:










I applied a sealer to the concrete and then for giggles rubbed on some paste wax as well.

At this point it was time to move the gosh darn thing. Thanks to covid this was going to be a one man job. Golly that top is heavy. I am not a big guy so moving a 150lbs of concrete top around was kind of a big deal for me. I do have a hand truck which made it possible but yea... it kind of sucked.

In the end though it all come together:



















Its a TALL stand. I designed it that way so that my head would basically be in the middle of the door for viewing purposes. Still having it in place I am reminded once more that 180 gallons of viv is a LOT ;P

Next up I will be doing some paint touchup on the stand where it got scuffed coming in and having the top slid on. Then building the actual vivarium.


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

Nice looking stand  


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## DigitalChromosome (Jun 25, 2020)

I like your use of concrete as a top. Glad to see it progressing so well. I built a stand a little larger than this for my reef tank... first time ever building something myself. It didn't turn out nearly as nice as yours. Well done!


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## jolthoff (Jan 12, 2007)

Nice paint job. I love the gray tones that are popular now.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Thank you folks! Its a lot of fun building the stand. When it turned out more or less the way I envisioned it, it makes the whole thing all the better.

That said... Update!

Soooo long story short. The Wife did not like the stand.....

That she didn't like it I do not begrudge her, I just REALLY wish she had voiced her opinion before I built the darn thing and moved it into the house. We had gone over the design and dimensions when it was still in the planning stages, heck this is even the second version of the stand, the first is still very much present in my shop. Still when it finally was in the house she did not like the look of it. We moved it around to 3 different locations hoping it would look better in a different setting but in the end it just wasn't cutting it.

To be clear my wife was willing to accept the stand but I have been married long enough to read between the lines. If I kept the stand she would forever be unhappy about it and I really want her to enjoy having the frogs, and more pointedly, having them in the middle of our living room.

So its back to the drawing board ;P

The main complaint about the stand is that it was too big and too tall. The stand is 49 inches long, 28 inches wide and 38.5 inches tall. I made it this height and size so that I could put a 120 gallon rimless aquarium down in the future if I desire and have it supported appropriately all the way around and so I could be standing next to it and be at perfect viewing height without having to bend over.

The Wife simply didn't like that size. She also was not happy with the overall design aesthetic which I modeled after other aquarium stands. 

The new stand will be 51 inches long, 22 inches wide, and 34 inches tall. This design will fit a 75 gallon rimless tank if I ever go that route. It will also use much nicer wood and be stained instead of painted. It will also have some halflaps and proper frame and panel doors. So in general just a much more advanced stand then the previous versions. I made a sketchup model of the stand last night and the wife tentatively approves the design. This will be the third build of this stand. I told her its the last one darn it ;P










Now I need to get rid of the existing stand. Anyone in Maryland want to buy a stand?


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update:

A review of the wood supplies I had on hand showed that I have a LOT of black walnut. This was not too surprising because I had a lot of walnut left over/reserved for a nightstand project from a few years (and a few houses) ago. This included a ridiculously large 12/4 beam. It was big enough that I could not safely cut it using my floor instruments so I used a circular saw and did it with 2 cuts (one on either side).










Once I had a chunk that was a bit easier to work with I could focus on flattening it and making a perpendicular angle.










From there I could cut it apart into legs using the bandsaw:










And from there I could cut everything to length and width and finally using a tenon jig make my joints for the legs: 










These pieces will be the four main support legs for the stand. I still need to round over the edges for a smoother look but otherwise they are pretty much good to go for assembly. 

I will likely be using the other half of the beam to make the 4 long horizontal parts of the frame. I started the work there and flattened the beam but I don't have a picture of it. 

Its been a while since I've done quality woodworking and I've forgotten how much fun it is.  Next up more woodworking!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Such gorgeous wood! This going to look amazing. And you have beautiful hardwood floors. Please seal that stand really well and be careful of those floors. My hardwood floors are literally ruined because of having numerous tanks all over the living room for the last 10 years. Most of that damage was caused by not planning ahead to have extra large vessels to catch the drainage water from my bulkheads. You still have time to plan ahead and do it right where I did not!

Best of luck. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Mark


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Encyclia said:


> Such gorgeous wood! This going to look amazing. And you have beautiful hardwood floors. Please seal that stand really well and be careful of those floors. My hardwood floors are literally ruined because of having numerous tanks all over the living room for the last 10 years. Most of that damage was caused by not planning ahead to have extra large vessels to catch the drainage water from my bulkheads. You still have time to plan ahead and do it right where I did not!
> 
> Best of luck. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
> 
> Mark



Thank you!

This is excellent advice methinks. I am planning on a 5 gallon bucket as a drainage reservoir, or something similar. The stand will get a wipe on urethane of some kind. I honestly haven't settled on a product yet but water and uv protection will be high up on my list of must haves.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sounds like you have it under control. Oh, to have had the forethought to use 5 gallon buckets as overflows. I don't have room under my stands (they are all double-deckers except one) so I have mostly little, flat plastic storage containers crammed under the bottom tanks that I regularly forget to dump. That is a recipe for horrifying floor damage. You are already on a better track. 

The other thing that might help save some money (which you probably already know if you are a woodworker) is that that veneer worked great for me with pocket screws. My one quality stand is made of oak, but my friend did a fantastic job with pockets screws in oak veneer plywood and I bet it knocked 50% off the cost of the wood for the project.

Keep up the good work! You demonstrate a lot of wisdom and understanding in dealing with your wife and her opinions on the project, BTW.

Mark


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Encyclia said:


> The other thing that might help save some money (which you probably already know if you are a woodworker) is that that veneer worked great for me with pocket screws. My one quality stand is made of oak, but my friend did a fantastic job with pockets screws in oak veneer plywood and I bet it knocked 50% off the cost of the wood for the project.


I am in complete agreement. There is absolutely nothing wrong with plywood. Folks knock the stuff all the time but its honestly a wonderful product that when used correctly is every bit as strong and durable as solid wood. I will be using plywood on the central door panels and the sides of the stand. Doing wood panel glue-ups to recreate what plywood gives me in this location is simply too time consuming with not enough benefit. I haven't decided yet if I will use birch ply stained dark or spring for walnut ply. The price difference is essentially triple the cost.



Encyclia said:


> Keep up the good work! You demonstrate a lot of wisdom and understanding in dealing with your wife and her opinions on the project, BTW.


When I started dating my now wife, we had a discussion early on how to settle disagreements. Basically we decided that whenever we disagree the person who cares more wins. So if something is really important to one person but only middling important to the other then the person who cared more about the issue gets their way. Its been working well for us. In this case my wife cared a decent amount. She didn't say so coherently ;P But that was because I just made something and she didn't want to poo poo it too much. For my part I cared but I also saw where she was coming from and frankly I have a lot of fun making stuff so I don't mind going back to the drawing board (literally) to make this thing happen. 



Encyclia said:


> Sounds like you have it under control. Oh, to have had the forethought to use 5 gallon buckets as overflows. I don't have room under my stands (they are all double-deckers except one) so I have mostly little, flat plastic storage containers crammed under the bottom tanks that I regularly forget to dump. That is a recipe for horrifying floor damage. You are already on a better track.


Not sure if you solved this yet, but just thinking about this issue, if your tanks are next to each other, could you have them all drain to a central reservoir (one of your flat ones that fit under your stands), and then put in that reservoir a pump and a float switch. The pump would have a hose on it to go to a single large storage container (5 gallon bucket, jerry can, watever you can fit in a single discrete location). You could then put a water warning system in place so you won't be able to forget to empty it. Or if you are willing and able to, through a wall and down into a basement drain. Just spit ballin.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update:

A little time has passed and I have been out in my garage/shop almost every day for at least a few minutes and sometimes a few hours. Since I last posted I processed the rest of that giant beam of walnut.

Here are the longer horizontal support pieces:










This piece was not as nice as the first chunk in that it had cracks, knots, and the tree's center in it. This is why I didn't use it at first and I was planning not to use it at all for this build. But I eventually decided that I wanted the thickness this piece provided and I couldn't get that from the other stock I have on hand.

The cracks and knots I either cut around or stabilized with epoxy tinted black.

Once I had the pieces cut for the visible portion on the frame I could do some mockups to see how it was going to come together:










I am planning to fit plywood into slots I cut for short sides and probably the back as well. This requires half-laps for the short side horizontal supports, through mortises for the vertical legs and stopped mortises for the long horizontal supports. 

Here is one of the mortises on the long horizontal support I made with a router. Not my best work but the part that's wonky will be covered up.










The horizontal supports with joinery:










Through mortises for the vertical legs:










Another dry mockup:










And then I decided to do a full size mockup minus most of the plywood:










While I don't have the full sized plywood installed I did stick in some scraps just to get an idea of how it would go together:










A look at that corner from the outside:










And that brings me to current. 

I was originally planning to stain the plywood to match the walnut but I am thinking I like the contrast and may just leave it as is. 

My issue right now is that I am out of supplies ;P

I have enough plywood to make the short sides, or make the bottom, or make the back, or make the doors. BUT I can't make any 2 of those let alone all 4. In other words, I need to buy some more plywood! I also need to buy more concrete for the top, hinges, handles, and stain if I'm going to stain the plywood.

For finish I think I have settled on General Finish's "Arm-R-Seal". I am going with this one because I discovered I have 2 nearly fully quart containers in storage ;P

Anyway, next time I update it will hopefully be a glue-up complete with plywood!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

minorhero said:


> _I_ like the contrast


You know that doesn't matter at all lest you end up building a fourth stand! Oh, and it looks great!

Mark


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## whp (Feb 6, 2020)

beautiful, well thought-out carpentry.
this will be great


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## TravisH (Jan 18, 2017)

Nice looking stand. Walnut is hard to beat. 

Personally I would move the stand up to the location with a dummy ply side to check it out. With the color of the wood floors not so sure I would want to leave it natural. 

Add the concrete top to the mix and I would be much more inclined to stain to match the walnut or maybe even match the floor. Contrasting woods are tricky in my opinion as often lose the balance/harmony of the piece and end up overpowering the initial intent.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

TravisH said:


> Nice looking stand. Walnut is hard to beat.
> 
> Personally I would move the stand up to the location with a dummy ply side to check it out. With the color of the wood floors not so sure I would want to leave it natural.
> 
> Add the concrete top to the mix and I would be much more inclined to stain to match the walnut or maybe even match the floor. Contrasting woods are tricky in my opinion as often lose the balance/harmony of the piece and end up overpowering the initial intent.


Thank you!

The Wife has actually spoken on this issue  

When I showed her the natural color plywood juxtaposed to the walnut (even with a bit of finish rubbed onto some scrap pieces) she immediately asked about the walnut plywood I had previously mentioned. I told her its still a possibility but this would save literally 100 dollars off the cost of the finished piece, she was unswayed. Soooo yeah need to get me some walnut plywood ;P

This has delayed me a bit because I need to go to a proper hardwood seller to obtain this and just haven't had the time. Meanwhile I have done some work on the new concrete top. I'll post that bit later today or tomorrow most likely.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

So in a perfect world I would be doing a glue-up right about now. We sadly do not live in such a place. Due to issues mentioned in my last post I do not have the plywood but that does not mean I have been idle. 

Once I knew it was going to be a week or 2 before I could get my hands on the plywood I shifted focus to the concrete top. 

This top is a different size then the last one I made so I can't use the existing form. Instead I needed to make a new form 51" long and 22" wide. 

Next problem was that I didn't have a piece of melamine (or even plywood) 51" long and 22" wide.... DOH

Instead I needed to create the all important bottom part of my form from 2 pieces. This matters because the concrete is simply going to create a mirror image of the form. So if there is a seam in the form that is not perfectly flush, that seam will be in the concrete. 

I knew this, so I made darn sure that the seam was going to be perfect!

....


It totally didn't work.


So what went wrong?

Well here is a picture of my form:










It's hard to make out but the seam is on the left hand side. There was originally a noticeable difference of 1 mm or so in one side compared to the other. To solve this I sanded the area down and filled it in with silicone. I didn't need this form to be super strong, just be smooth so the concrete would cure flat.

The concrete used was the same stuff as before, Rapidset Motar Mix. This time I used the plasticizer (flow control) recommended for this stuff. I also used some charcoal cement tint as well to deepen the color. The pour this time went MUCH better.










In fact it was so liquidy that I found out my work bench is not completetly level ;P So Once it hardened I had to do a second pour. This time I didn't have any flow control.... so it was not nearly as smooth. But overall still happy with how the pours went. 










When it came time to take it out of the mold, things were more difficult. The cement stuck very firmly to the area of the seam (where I sanded and applied silicone) causing me to destroy the form when removing the cement. Not a big loss but still.

The real trouble was that the seam was VERY visible in the cement. So much so that I surmise the form must have changed shape as the weight of the cement was added. Soooo yea, not great. I decided to try to fill in the resulting seam with more cement. This sort of worked... and sort of didn't. For one thing I couldn't get the tinting quite right so its obviously different stuff. For another, it did not adhere very well. In the end I got it partly filled in but its clearly a patch and aesthetically is noticeable enough that if people see it I will be forced to call it an asymmetrical artistic design..... which sounds better then a hot mess.

The good news is that all portions of the seam and repair will be underneath a 3 foot tall vivarium, so I should never see it again once there is a tank on top ;P




























What I do like is just how smooth the top is. The plasticizer really did a good job making the concrete 'flow'. The vibration of the jigsaw clamped under the table also did a good job of getting rid of most of the bubbles. Soooo yea I'm going to call this a success. I may try to dye the concrete further now that its out but honestly I don't have much issue with how it looks, (the wife... well you never know ;P).


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update:

Still not a glue-up but I am definitely getting closer!

I drove down to Annapolis earlier in the week and picked up a sheet of 1/2 inch walnut plywood. I had to cut it into approximate sized pieces to get it into my car but that is pretty normal for me.

Once back I trimmed it up a little more to get it to fit in the designated locations. The walnut ply ended up being slightly thicker then the birch ply I was using as a template so I needed to make my slots and mortises slightly bigger but that was easily done with chisel or table saw. At this point its all cut to size (except the doors) and just needs to be glued. Here is how my dry fit looked:























































I am on vacation for a week so nothing is going to happen till after I'm back. But my next update 'should' be a glue-up, for reals this time ;P


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

You're a pretty good carpenter, that all looks *great*.

While I've placed and finished my share of flatwork, I've never cast concrete or used a plasticizer. I'm planning to cast some raised-bed planters (four walls separately) as well as make a topper for my backyard block wall. So it's nice to see a viv guy taking a stab at it and doing OK.

Curious if you considered including perlite or something to reduce the weight of your sculpture? Instead of pre-mix, a DIY mix of Portland cement + "stuff". This guy is my inspiration for the raised beds plus wall topper:




 He's got a little series of vids, various builds as well as some strength testing. He's pretty analytical, it's nice.

So sorry about all the do-overs! My wife is a little (OK quite a lot) like that - has abundant opinions but isn't very open with them up front. Just later, after I'm well into whatever the job is. Ha ha. _Argh_. I've learned to try harder to draw her out before I'm committed. Success still varies...ah, _the human condition_. Ha ha.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

This is great, minorhero! The birch would have been fine, but the walnut just looks awesome. I think you made the right call. Have a good vacation!

Mark


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

jgragg said:


> You're a pretty good carpenter, that all looks *great*.
> 
> While I've placed and finished my share of flatwork, I've never cast concrete or used a plasticizer. I'm planning to cast some raised-bed planters (four walls separately) as well as make a topper for my backyard block wall. So it's nice to see a viv guy taking a stab at it and doing OK.
> 
> ...


Thank you! Casting concrete is both fun and a bit nerve racking given how fast the stuff I'm using starts to cure. You have a few minutes (as in less then 10 or 15) to do things and then you are losing viscosity and things are starting to set. Other mixes have working time measured in hours so something slower would probably be better. 

I actually have seen some of this guys earlier work though its been at least a year since I checked in with what he was doing. I began my foray into concrete with the idea of casting 2 walls out of 5 of a 120 gallon aquarium. I originally wanted to know if I could get the same strength out of concrete that I would get out of glass. I ended up not pursuing it when my strength tests showed me it wasn't a good idea in the 1/2" thickness I was targeting. Anyway that's how I found his videos the first time.

I have been tempted by the idea of making a vivarium out of concrete instead of plywood but have been put off by the weight of the structure. I need the finished product to not weigh more then I can move by myself with a hand truck. Maybe this will offer another solution? Thank you for the link and update!



Encyclia said:


> This is great, minorhero! The birch would have been fine, but the walnut just looks awesome. I think you made the right call. Have a good vacation!
> 
> Mark


Thank you! Its a pretty material to work with which is always fun.

And with that:

UPDATE:

After much ado, I finally am back and ready to do the glue-up. I used pocket holes to join the short side of the frame to longer pieces for both top and bottom frames:










Once that was in place I could glue the verticals and plywood in place and then slide the top frame into place. I practiced this maneuver once with everything just dry and clamps in place so I would know how to do it with the glue involved. I've found this is just good practice so you don't end up making a fubar as soon as glue hits the wood. I'm glad I did as well since the order of what I wanted to do needed to change because the plywood was simply too tight a fit to 'slide' down the channel I had created. Likely there was some swelling in the wood with humidity being high the last week or so.

Anyway here is how it looks now:










In 8 hours or so the glue will be dry and I can begin doing a LOT of sanding. Once the sanding is at a reasonable level I can add the bottom panel supports, bottom panel, and back panel. At that point I can start thinking about doors... since I plan to have a couple of those ;P


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

The glue-up continued! From the last point I added the back panel after drilling two 2 inch holes to allow for cords and tubes. 

Clamping something like this is mostly impossible using actual clamps so it comes down to finding heavy things to put on it ;P










The same process was repeated for the bottom once the back panel was dry:










This brings me to current. I have done a bunch of sanding to the stand but more is needed. I am now at the phase where I need to begin working on the doors. They are going to be fully inset into the frame using proper euro style cabinet hinges this time. I ordered from amazon two pair of soft close blum hinges earlier this morning since none of the hardware stores near me carry them. Hopefully today I can find some time to begin cutting the wood for the doors. Certainly at this point the light at the end of the tunnel is visible ;P

In related news I picked up two giant (for me) pieces of Malaysian driftwood at my local fish store. They were quite expensive but definitely worth it. Here are 2 pictures of possible configurations. The final tank will be taller then the under stand storage by almost a full foot but it gives you an idea of the kind of space I will be working with.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Great work! 
And nice driftwood!


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## rhewkath (Aug 27, 2020)

Absolutely gorgeous stand! The idea of a concrete counter is wonderful, and I'm looking forward to seeing the vivarium come together too!

Now my only question - how do you get the curves of your sand so smooth in the sketchup model!? Any time I try, I get a horribly jagged mess


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

rhewkath said:


> Absolutely gorgeous stand! The idea of a concrete counter is wonderful, and I'm looking forward to seeing the vivarium come together too!
> 
> Now my only question - how do you get the curves of your sand so smooth in the sketchup model!? Any time I try, I get a horribly jagged mess


Thank you!

Ahh as for that its super easy, I design and build the stand in sketchup but for models like fish tanks, lights etc, I just download those from 3D Warehouse and let someone else much better then me make them ;P


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

Since last time I got the wood for the doors milled, cut to size and then the little bit of joinery. Here you can see the slots I cut in the wood that would eventually go on to make up the sides of doors:










And here are the doors after all glued up. They are not actually installed in this picture, just sitting there to show approximately what they will look like:










After this was some more sanding. Here is one of the corners after a bit of sanding:










And then it was time for the finish!

The finish is Arm-R-Seal which is a urethane based finish so it should provide decent protection from water and from UV. Here is the stand when I was in the process of applying the finish, you can pretty clearly see the color change:










And here it is after I applied the first coat of finish:










Once dry I will be do some light sanding and then apply 2nd coat of finish. In total I will put down 3 coats of finish.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Small Update:

3rd coat for the stand main body and, 2nd coat for the doors. I am away this weekend so I won't get a chance to finish it up completely until sometime early next week, but baring something major I will be starting work on the actual vivarium sometime next week.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

After coming back I did some more sanding with 320 grit paper and then it was time to add the feet.










These are non-marking rubber feet that will serve the dual purpose of keeping the stand from rocking on my definitely not quite flat floor and also allow me to push the stand around without scratching the floor.

After this I finally attached the doors to the frame. The hinges I am using have some ability to adjust the door height and angle after it is attached which is pretty spiffy. Here is how they looked:



















All that was left at this point is to move it into the house and put on the top.





















Done!.........................with the stand ;P

Now I need to actually build the vivarium that goes on top heh. First step will be to make a 3d model which I will hopefully work on today.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

Its time to talk about the actual vivarium in this vivarium build thread 

Yesterday I used Sketchup to make a 3D model of the vivarium. I always find this step to be SUPER helpful when building something. Even when I feel like I have a very good idea of how to go about building something I am always surprised by small details that I forget about till I see the actual model and realize I can make my life a LOT easier by cutting a piece of wood a little shorter, or making mortise where I wasn't planning one etc.

Anyway after a bit of work I came up with this design:




























Dimensions are 4 feet long, 20 inches deep, and 3 feet tall.

The structure would be made out of 1/2 inch ply and then the corners are doubled up. I would have 2 bulkheads in the bottom, with a sort of trough in the very front (not pictured). The bottom most bulkhead would go to a canister filter external to the tank, the second bulkhead higher up would go to a reservoir in the stand. A third bulkhead on the back wall near the top of the tank would let water back in for a minor dripping branch effect in one corner. 

I had planned on this window like design because 1) I didn't want to mate 2 pieces of glass together with a silicone seam since I am not confident in my silicone abilities getting a perfectly clean joint. and 2) When this stand was significantly shorter I was planning on using pre-made glass windows available online as 'table tops' for relatively cheap.

I posted the design over on a facebook group and asked for feedback. 
athiker04 responded to the thread and linked me to his build thread here. I had seen this build thread before and have always been impressed by it but his comments made me rethink my design. The way he built his tanks he did not have a glass to glass silicone joint in the tank. And since my tank was now so much taller then before I could no longer use the pre-made glass panels I was previously considering. Thus I decided to ditch my design and rethink my approach. This included aping athiker04's design quite a bit.

Here is my new design:



















Essentially the same basic principles as the last design only this time it would feature 3 glass walls instead of sliding doors and 2 windows. 

If anyone has any thoughts or feedback on the design I am definitely open to them. I haven't started cutting wood yet so at this point the sky is the limit on changes 

Meanwhile I have started calling around for glass quotes. I am always amazed at the wide disparity of prices on this front. So far I have two companies responding. One wanted 240 dollars for the glass sides the other wanted 90 dollars for the glass sides. These would be 1/4" thick annealed glass with a flat polished edge. I have another 6 or 7 or so quotes outstanding, hopefully I will receive most of those in the next day or 2.


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

Greetings,

The overall design looks good. I wasn't sure, after reading your latest description of the glass configuration (3 walls, 2 windows) what you meant exactly. Are there going to be doors on this viv?


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

kimcmich said:


> Greetings,
> 
> The overall design looks good. I wasn't sure, after reading your latest description of the glass configuration (3 walls, 2 windows) what you meant exactly. Are there going to be doors on this viv?


Ah yeah I can see how that is confusing. I meant that the design would be similar to other build I linked with 2 fixed glass walls on either side and meeting those two walls would be a door. In my case using a sliding door. Definitely not trying to make a top opening custom viv ;P


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

With all the effort you're putting into this, I would recommend two things. Either add a float valve in the trough area (hidden is fine) so you don't have to worry about evap causing your canister to suck air. Or the other option would be to sump the filter. With a stand being that size, you could easily fit a 10 gallon tank underneath and make your own wet/dry filter which would be chump to maintain and you can hide an ATO valve in the sump. 

I can look up the place, but there was a glass shop in Rockville that I used to deal with back in the day. They were affordable and could cut whatever size glass you need at reasonable rates. They also would bevel the edges if asked for little to no charge if you asked. For sliding doors that would be ideal to reduce chipping and friction.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> With all the effort you're putting into this, I would recommend two things. Either add a float valve in the trough area (hidden is fine) so you don't have to worry about evap causing your canister to suck air. Or the other option would be to sump the filter. With a stand being that size, you could easily fit a 10 gallon tank underneath and make your own wet/dry filter which would be chump to maintain and you can hide an ATO valve in the sump.
> 
> I can look up the place, but there was a glass shop in Rockville that I used to deal with back in the day. They were affordable and could cut whatever size glass you need at reasonable rates. They also would bevel the edges if asked for little to no charge if you asked. For sliding doors that would be ideal to reduce chipping and friction.


Definitely interested in any suggestions for glass cutters if the information is easily found. I have sent out about 10 requests for quotes and so far have gotten back 4. I expect the others to trickle in over the next couple of days but they are all just shots in the dark. I have no idea if these companies are particularly good or cheap etc.

I have debated whether to go with a sump over a canister filter. I actually own the canister filter already (from a now defunct aquarium) so its a zero expense item to set it up. Since my trough area in the tank will be filled with calcined clay I won't be able to use a float switch. That means I could only use one in a sump. The problem there is the risk of it failing, my drain clogging and then I am in a potential flood issue onto my floor. The frogs would be fine because the front vents would drain water before the whole tank became submerged (I plan to build up the back layer), but I don't want to put myself in a situation where its possible (even though unlikely) that I dump a few gallons of water onto the floor, especially when I might not be around to immediately take action.

The accepted solution for this is to have enough capacity in the tank to have the sump run dry without flooding, but I don't know how to calculate that in advance given that I plan to have my 'false bottom'/trough area completely filled in by calcined clay. Does that make sense?

Anyway this is why I arrived at using a canister filter instead. The water volume in one is so small its my hope that even if my drain clogs I still won't have enough water to flood the tank, and if I do, it won't be by much.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

The perk of the canister is that currently it's a 'free to you' situation which is always good. The canister running dry will inevitably either overheat the motor head or damage the impeller then you have that cost. Overall a sump is just cheaper to repair in the future. With the dimensions of the stand, plus the low flow you're probably after, you're just after a pump that has the head pressure to reach the height of the outlet. As for calculating the volume of water, that's easy. Just go through and measure your calcined area and do the following:

L x W x H = (cubic inches)/231= gallons 

ex:
48" x 12" x 6" = 3456 cu in / 231 = 14.96 gallons

Obviously you will have displacement of the calcined media, but if you get that total volume in gallons + what ever your top off reservoir is you should be more than safe. In my example above, that 14.96 gallons + 5 gallon reservoir would be just shy of 20 gallons. So a 20 gallon long should provide more than enough space since the area calculated to be 14.96 gallons will have displacement due to media which will reduce the volume of water. ATO's are pretty reliable these days, so if the mechanical float switch is not giving you the warm and fuzzies, a simple electronic ATO with water level monitoring (around $100) will be more than safe. I've used some simple ones for years with no floods. Only floods I get are when I forget I'm filling a tank and walk away during a water change... Yay fishroom with concrete floors! 

I'm not only recommending this to save a pump, but in actuality you're probably going to be away from home at some point. Say a vacation comes up. Having this knocked out now means one less thing you have to worry about/train the pet sitter to do when they swing by. Perk of the ATO res is you can also use it as the same res for your auto misting system. Win Win.

Also, let me add that whatever you're going to stock in there has a chance of producing offspring... Couple breeder boxes in the sump = simple way to raise tads without setting up a rack or table for cups before they sprout front legs.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> The perk of the canister is that currently it's a 'free to you' situation which is always good. The canister running dry will inevitably either overheat the motor head or damage the impeller then you have that cost. Overall a sump is just cheaper to repair in the future. With the dimensions of the stand, plus the low flow you're probably after, you're just after a pump that has the head pressure to reach the height of the outlet. As for calculating the volume of water, that's easy. Just go through and measure your calcined area and do the following:
> 
> L x W x H = (cubic inches)/231= gallons
> 
> ...


I have no issues with the math but it gets a bit more complicated when you dump the calcined clay in. To be clear I am talking about taking calcined clay (think fine grain aquarium gravel) and putting somewhere between 40 lbs and 80 lbs into this tank. This will fill the bottom and make hills in the back. So yeah, definitely not going to have 14 gallons of water in this tank. If I can dump 3 gallons in there without overflowing I will consider it a big success. Another thing to consider is the water filled false bottom of this tank will not be rectangular. It will be triangular. I have a slanted false bottom and that slant changes angles as it gets closer to the front. The exact size and depth of all of this I haven't figured out yet. I cut some wood for a 45 degree angle and just shy of 4 inches wide but when I stack the pieces up it looks a bit small to me so I will need to redo it.

The good news is that 1) I don't have to make this decision now. I can set the whole thing up and see how much water it actually holds before making a decision. 2) No matter what I start out with I can always change it down the road. Nothing in the tank changes regardless of whether its a sump or canister filter, all of those changes happen in the stand so it won't be a big deal to swap one for the other.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

With the slope being at 45 degrees you can effectively deduce that the volume of capable water would be 50% of the math I provided. As for drains, on any project, I always recommend running a double drain. This will provide you a backup drain if something clogs. Also, you can run the second drain at an alternate height, so if you get a small restriction that raises the water, you won't have to worry about an overflow if the secondary drain is above the primary.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> With the slope being at 45 degrees you can effectively deduce that the volume of capable water would be 50% of the math I provided. As for drains, on any project, I always recommend running a double drain. This will provide you a backup drain if something clogs. Also, you can run the second drain at an alternate height, so if you get a small restriction that raises the water, you won't have to worry about an overflow if the secondary drain is above the primary.


I don't think I've done a good job explaining the situation. Let me use a different example. Lets say you have a pint glass. It holds exactly 16 oz of water. Now fill that pint glass to the brim with fine gravel. How much water does it hold?

A lot less then 16 oz that is for certain. The easiest way to find out would be to pour water in till it reaches the brim. This is the scenario I have in my tank. My substrate and false bottom will be homogeneous. So I won't be able to calculate how much water my tank holds without actually filling it up. It won't be much though.

One reason to use a canister filter over a sump though is that a canister filter doesn't rely on gravity to drain water. A canister filter can suck the water out of the tank. This will be useful for me because my bulkhead due to practical build considerations can not be at the lowest point on the viv. I wouldn't have any room to install it there. Instead it will be a little higher up and I can run a tube down to the lowest point in the viv and thus be that much more protected against running dry. Hopefully I will be able to dial in my humidity and misting to such a degree that I will be able to ensure my canister never runs dry but I won't know for sure on that point until after its setup and running for a bit.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

I understand the displacement part 100%, as for the bulkhead location, that I didn't know. 

I understand the difference between a closed loop pump and a sump being gravity fed, but I'm just pointing out ways to get around accidents, both over flowing of water and lack there of for a canister. Depending on how much misting you have and ventilation, you may have an issue where there is more water going into the Viv than is being pulled out due to evap and exchange of internal Viv air which should have high humidity and external Viv air which should be lower. Just something to consider.

In big projects like these, especially with as much work as you're putting into it, I'd hate to see you have to tear out the substrate and re drill for bulk heads.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> I understand the displacement part 100%, as for the bulkhead location, that I didn't know.
> 
> I understand the difference between a closed loop pump and a sump being gravity fed, but I'm just pointing out ways to get around accidents, both over flowing of water and lack there of for a canister. Depending on how much misting you have and ventilation, you may have an issue where there is more water going into the Viv than is being pulled out due to evap and exchange of internal Viv air which should have high humidity and external Viv air which should be lower. Just something to consider.
> 
> In big projects like these, especially with as much work as you're putting into it, I'd hate to see you have to tear out the substrate and re drill for bulk heads.


All true, but if I do decide to go with a sump at some point I won't need to redrill for bulkheads. There will still be 2 in the tank sloped floor. One going to the canister and one to the reservoir for overflow. So if I do decide to switch to a sump I won't need to change anything in the tank, only on the outside. 

I do appreciate all the time and thought you put into your responses, I like to get critique especially on big projects like this. If I were dealing with a larger water volume I would go the sump route as well since they are just so much easier to manage. But since the water in the viv is going to be quite small (even though the tank is pretty large) I am still of the belief a canister filter is the better way to go. I originally thought of making a DIY canister filter to do the job actually since filtration is not really that important and any old bit of sponge next to a pump would do the trick. But with an actual canister filter sitting dry with no plans for future use it didn't make sense to build something new.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

You're welcome. I'm an engineer by trade, so I try to look at the big picture, but then work out the smaller details as problems appear in the design.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

I have been picking away at the viv construction and decided to post a progress update now that it looks a bit like something ;P

First up was making the front piece complete with vents. This is the most 'difficult' part of the build not because it is super intricate but because I am not super talented when it comes to anything that is done by hand. I much prefer setting up a jig and using power tools to create straight lines guided by my jig. The easiest way to make this piece though involved drilling a few starter holes then free handing it with a jig saw before following it up with a router. The corners would be free hand though so of course that is where it was roughest.










From there I cut out the short side pieces. Again I needed to rely on my jig saw skills so... yeah could have been better ;P

Here are the pieces just propped up to see how it looked:










From here I could begin gluing the reinforcement pieces in place. Since this viv will be epoxied on the inside and painted on the outside I have a LOT of room to smooth over rough edges and generally fix booboos that would be difficult or impossible to fix if I left it as stained wood.










After gluing the reinforcement on I could start the rest of the glue-up. The next step was figuring out the bottom. This could have been done before this point but I find it is a LOT easier for me to use the actual pieces I will be working with to figure out things like angles and sizes so it wasn't until I had all the pieces lying next to each other that I could take final measurements. 

I originally planned for the bottom to be made from 2 pieces with different angles to create a kind of trough. This design makes sense when working with something like plastic (like how my insitu is made) but it didn't make sense when working with wood so when it came time to actually build it I abandoned the multiple angle bottom and instead went with a single piece slanted bottom at a 15 degree angle.










Once the glue set I could glue on the opposing side. I did have a another whoopsie before this step when I glued the reinforcement onto the wrong side of this piece.... twice.... but I got it sorted.










Around this point I realized I messed this whole thing up. Not so much that I can't fix it, but it does complicate the entire build. You see I made my sloped floor run the full 20 inch depth of the vivarium instead of stopping at the front wall and the back. This meant that I needed to glue-up the front wall and the back ONTOP of the sloped floor instead of against it. Whoops. Oh well its not the end of the world it just makes things more difficult. In this case it meant cutting 15 degree angles in the front and back pieces. The back will also need to be in 2 pieces. 

This brings me to gluing up the back:










And that brings me up to current. Next will be gluing up the front and then I will be adding more reinforcement pieces to overlap the various joints. 

Overall I am pretty happy with progress. I was originally a bit wary of using only 1/2 inch plywood simply because it felt a bit wobbly when handling it in long pieces. But once I started adding the reinforcement pieces that worry went away, they really add quite a bit of stiffness.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

You may want to consider picking up/borrowing a hand router, it will save you a ton of time when it comes to making slots, plus with the right bits you can chamfer edges.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

minorhero said:


> Update!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good update! 
I look forward to seeing this completed. 

Can you do us a favor and keep track of what the project (particularly the vivarium build), costs? This might help other people make a decision in the future. I've stuck with pre-built , commercially available terrariums because getting glass cut to size is quite expensive where I live.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> You may want to consider picking up/borrowing a hand router, it will save you a ton of time when it comes to making slots, plus with the right bits you can chamfer edges.


I own a trim router and the router in my router table is a medium sized machine so I could take it out and use it as a hand router if needed. I also own a few roundover bits which will be making an appearance later in the build. That said, I'm not very good at using a router ;P In the corners is where things got a little wonky. I used my mortiser to square up the corners and from there reinforced the entire top section of the front piece with straight cut bits of plywood from the table saw so once I sand it, fill in any gaps with paste, and paint it, it will look pretty smooth. Till then its rougher then I would like.




fishingguy12345 said:


> Good update!
> I look forward to seeing this completed.
> 
> Can you do us a favor and keep track of what the project (particularly the vivarium build), costs? This might help other people make a decision in the future. I've stuck with pre-built , commercially available terrariums because getting glass cut to size is quite expensive where I live.


I actually have a pretty good idea right now of how much the whole thing will cost. I bought 2 sheets of plywood, one is 1/2 birch and the other is marine grade fir plywood. The marine grade is being used for the sides, bottom, and front (the parts that will be underwater). But this was an uncessary expense, you could do just as well with 1/2" birch plywood.

Anyway the cost breakdown is going to look something like this:

Plywood 150 dollars (could shave 50 dollars off of this by using regular plywood instead of marine)
Glass 250 dollars (this assumes I go with 1/4" thick glass for the doors which I am actually undecided on, it would be about half as much if I go with 1/8th inch for the doors)
Pond Armor 70 dollars
Paint and Primer 50 dollars
Misc Costs 80 dollars (screws, silicone, door track, fiberglass, wood glue, bulkheads, tubing)

Total cost 600 dollars before planting, lights, plumbing, misting, substrate etc. At the end of the day its not much if any cheaper to make it all glass, but I don't think I could make it look as good if it were all glass so /shrug.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

minorhero said:


> I own a trim router and the router in my router table is a medium sized machine so I could take it out and use it as a hand router if needed. I also own a few roundover bits which will be making an appearance later in the build. That said, I'm not very good at using a router ;P In the corners is where things got a little wonky. I used my mortiser to square up the corners and from there reinforced the entire top section of the front piece with straight cut bits of plywood from the table saw so once I sand it, fill in any gaps with paste, and paint it, it will look pretty smooth. Till then its rougher then I would like.


It will take practice, but it's worth it for the time savings and material savings than post processing. Looks good so far with what you did though! Just trying to save you some time. 

Have you decided what are you planning on sealing everything up with? Siliconed joints and then epoxy coat everything? Working with wood is making this a very interesting project to follow, I'm taking some notes for a custom viv.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> Have you decided what are you planning on sealing everything up with? Siliconed joints and then epoxy coat everything? Working with wood is making this a very interesting project to follow, I'm taking some notes for a custom viv.


If you apply a couple of coats of pond armor and then go over it with silicone it can seal the vivarium up but this is considered the slap dash method. The gold standard is using fiberglass weave in the corners. Apply a coat of pond armor, then put down the fiber weave with more pond armor on top. Followed by a third and final coat of pond armor. This is what plywood aquariums use and they need to withstand a lot more pressure then a vivarium.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Ugh, fiberglass... My arms itch at the thought already! I've seen it done for plywood tanks, but I figured it might be a bit overkill for a Viv, but I guess you could also work the fiberglass in for the structure of the background as well. Can't wait to see this thing done structurally, it will be a nice display for sure. 

Thoughts on a stain or paint job on the exterior?


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> Thoughts on a stain or paint job on the exterior?


Definitely paint. I will be using wood putty to fill in screw holes, and imperfections in my build. So wood stain simply won't work. Not to mention I have 2 different types of plywood going into it heh.

I am debating either an off white or light gray color. The walls in the room are light gray so either could work for me. Right now probably leaning towards off white. I will put down a coat of killz primer first and then follow-up with a coat of some kind of exterior paint bought from a big box hardware store.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Ah, wasn't sure if you were going to veneer the exterior or not. I'd be curious to know what this thing weighs empty. 

Just an after thought, but are you planning on adding adjustable feet to the base to level out enclosure in the room?


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> Ah, wasn't sure if you were going to veneer the exterior or not. I'd be curious to know what this thing weighs empty.
> 
> Just an after thought, but are you planning on adding adjustable feet to the base to level out enclosure in the room?


Not sure what the empty weight will be when done. As of this update I essentially have all the wood attached. I may add a few more small pieces of reinforcement/decoration to the outside. The weight is such that I can relatively easily move it around by myself. The glass is going to add at least 20 lbs (not counting the removable doors) and the epoxy will likely add probably around 5 or so lbs as well. I'm guessing the wooden vivarium as it currently sits is somewhere around 50 lbs. The whole thing will definitely be under 100 not counting the doors. 

I will not be adding leveling feet to the base. My water line will be well below the substrate surface so if its uneven, an observer would be unable to tell. Additionally the forces involved from the limited amount of water I have in there won't be enough to to damage the vivarium if its a couple of degrees off from level.

With that said...

Update!

I have been puttering away with the build since the last update. The biggest additions have definitely been additional supports for the bottom and the creating and installation of the top. 

When I installed the sloped bottom I unintentionally/intentionally (once I realized what was happening) skewed it so that one corner sits slightly lower then the other corner. How much lower? About 3/8". This was an oopsie that I ended up just going with because by the time I figured it out it would have been a real pain to fix and after I thought about it a bit I decided it was beneficial. This means all the water in the tank will want to drain towards the front right corner of the viv as its lower then the left corner. It did however complicate the build. For one thing when it came time to make the supports for the bottom (there are 3) each one needed to be a different angle and height then the others. It took a lot of fiddly measurements to make it happen but I eventually arrived at 3 right triangles made up of 2 pieces of 1/2" plywood laminated together and glued and screwed to the bottom of the vivarium. These will provide additional support to the bottom (which will definitely be needed seeing as I plan to put a bunch of rocks in there plus some big pieces of wood).










After that it was time to think about the top. I had been dreading dealing with the top because the only good way I could see of making it involved using a router and as I mentioned earlier, I'm not much good at a router. I first took measurements and drew out where everything was going to go after sizing the wood to fit the spot.










Then I used a drill to make holes on each end of every slot I was going to cut. Then I used a jig saw to take out most of the material but leaving a pretty hefty margin. 










Then it was time to use the router..... and tada everything was fine! Without a doubt my most successful use of the router thus far in my woodworking career ;P










At this point I had hogged out a lot of wood from this piece of plywood and it was pretty flimsy. I stiffened it up by adding some reinforcement. 










I ended up needing to do this to the underside of the top simply because I couldn't find a cheap piece of tempered glass that was the right size online to use for the light section. My plan has always been to buy a pre-cut and tempered piece of glass for this because I knew they existed and were cheap. What I needed was a 10" wide 48" long piece of glass but it simply was not available for cheap enough. I ended up buying a 12" wide 48" long tempered piece of glass and shipped it was only 22 dollars. But this meant the reinforcement pieces needed to go on the bottom so the top could remain smooth. Here is the top glued into place with some additional reinforcement for the front being glued on as well:










At this point the wooden structure of the vivarium is 97% complete. Like I said there is some additional reinforcement/costmetic I will probably add but, its looking like a vivarium! Here are some pictures:










My wood thrown in for giggles










I also used the router with a roundover bit to .. well round things over a bit:










And then it was time to glue on support for the back. I don't know if this is really 'needed' but it makes me feel better and was easy enough to add with leftover materials.










I also did a bunch of sanding to the viv but I have even more left to do honestly. The inside has mostly been sanded with a 60 grit disc which is the prep needed for the epoxy, but I have some hand sanding left in there. The outside I have started to sand using 120 grit just to smooth things out and take the bite off the edges I didn't round over, but I have a lot more to go. 

I also need to putty up all the holes/deformities/cracks/uneven parts in the build that was the natural result of the viv construction. This will likely be the next thing I do as I will need to sand over them anyway. Once the sanding is done and the putty is done...... then it will be time for epoxy! Not the end of the line, but a light is visible in the tunnel.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

If you found that wood at a local shop... Please share the source!

Great update! You're going to be clearing out a spot to set this thing up in the not too distant future at the rate you're going.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> If you found that wood at a local shop... Please share the source!


House of Tropicals in Glen Burnie. They have a giant bin they fill with Malaysian drift wood, all sizes but some are big like these. It wasn't cheap, more then a hundred dollars for what you see (I think its 6 dollars a pound from memory). But it was totally worth it. They were low on stock when I went about a month ago but they might have refilled by now.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Ah, every time I go their bins are next to empty.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> Ah, every time I go their bins are next to empty.


I haven't used him myself, but I hear good things about Manzanita Dude on facebook. Apparently he just opened a proper website:

https://www.manzanitastore.com/


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

Still puttering away at the vivarium but now things are getting very very close to finished!

Last week I drilled holes for the plumbing. Since I will be installing 1/2" bulkheads I drilled holes that are about 1.25". I need 3 for this vivarium, two in the bottom (one for the canister filter and one as an overflow/drain for the vivarium itself) and a third one on the back wall to be used as a input for my dripping branch.










With that done it was time to lay down the epoxy! I mixed up my pond armor and thinned it according to the directions. The directions called for an initial batch of 2 cups of part A and 1 cup of part B. I halved that and did 1 cup of A and 1/2 cup of B and I'm very glad I did. It simply would have been an absurd amount for a viv this size.

I ended up having so much left over plus a few splashes outside the vivarium that I actually rolled out quite a bit on the outside of the vivarium, which was not my original intention but just kinda happened in the moment of rushing to get it covered. The epoxy only has a 20-30 minute working period.










Still the material itself hardened up nicely and I was happy with the progress. Once it had dried I laid own the fiberglass and here I made several horrible horrible mistakes. 

The correct way to lay down the fiberglass (I discovered) is to put down a coat of epoxy, then the fiberglass, then let it dry, then come back and coat the outside of the fiberglass with more epoxy. I didn't do that. I laid the fiberglass down and then tried to saturate it with so much epoxy that it would bleed through to the other side. 

This sorta worked but it also was a HOT MESS! The directions call for 1.5 oz chopped strand fiberglass mat. And that was what I used. I really shouldn't have though because this stuff is crazy annoying. The strands come up and wrap around the roller making a horrible mess. The epoxy when wet is not very sticky so the mat was constantly moving around on me. 

PLUS (and this can not be overstated) I kinda got a bit over ambitious with my use of fiberglass. You see I was only supposed to use strips in the corners. But I figured... well I had a lot of fiberglass even buying the smallest and cheapest package I could find. So I figured I would use it to just cover the whole bottom.. basically making the bottom of my vivarium a watertight bowl, or boat, since this is how fiberglass on wood boats are made. 

So yeah... it was a HOT MESS!

Here is what the my fiberglass looked like before I applied the epoxy:










And here is what it looked like afterward:



















The pictures don't make it look like a disaster, but let me assure you.. it kind of was.

Anyway once it hardened up I couldn't deny that the fiberglass was quite hard and had strengthened the vivarium quite a bit, it just was really messy. I used shears to cut away bulging fabric and a rotating sander to get rid of loose threads of fiberglass. Eventually I got it into something I could work with and my solution to anything I couldn't fix was to basically bury it in a dripping pile of epoxy. 

This wonderfully worked but was wasteful. I ended up needing to buy a 2nd set of cans of Pond Armor to get the level of coverage I needed. It was either that though or scrap the whole thing so I did it. 

If I had to do it again I would never have used the chopped stand fiberglass. I don't need the strength boost it grants, I would use regular woven fiberglass like any other boat is made from, and I wouldn't bother coating the bottom, just the corners is perfectly sufficient.

Anyway after 3 coats of epoxy I decided it was time for a water test:










I filled it up till it was just below the first drainage hole and then waited a bit to see if it leaked. It did not, huzzah!

Then it was time to use 2 rattle cans of Kilz Primer on the outside of the viv:










I ran out on the bottom:










I'm not worried about it though as I think it will be sufficient given the type of paint I will be using.

I tried to keep overspray to a minimum but I still ended up with a lot of primer inside the vivarium, I wasn't going to leave that alone so I put on a 4th coat of epoxy:










And then less then an hour ago I was able to put on the first coat of paint. It is a very light gray/off white color which sherwin williams calls "useful gray". I always think paint names are funny ;P










Anyway it gave good coverage so I doubt I will need more then 2 coats. Once its dry and I do the same to the bottom I will be able to apply silicone to all the places that need silicone, meaning installing the glass side walls, the door tracks, the screen mesh and the bulkheads (which will definitely need silicone since the epoxy fiberglass/wood is not perfectly dead flat). 

My silicone of choice is Momentive RTV 103 because it is the strongest aquarium safe black silicone that exists (as near as I can tell) and why not go for the good stuff when it costs about the same?

For screen I went with 20x20 stainless steel mesh. I will test it with an older fly culture before installing it but I think its the right size to work.

Once the silicone work is done the vivarium will be complete!!

Then I just need to build the light


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Looks good man! You should have that thing in the house in a week or two from how fast you're progressing!

Question on the fiberglass, I've only used fiber glass with epoxy when it came to automotive body work and making negative molds of parts I wanted to duplicate with a vacuum former. When it came to using the fiberglass I was always taught to layer it and not trust a single sheet as overtime it can crack easier since the fibers only flow in a strong linear direction, and that you want to layer the weaves 90 degrees to one another for the best strength in body work as well as to reduce leaking from unsaturated fiberglass that had captured air pockets when creating vacuum form molds. Did the directions recommend to use only a single skin of fiberglass? Also, when it came to applying the epoxy/resin coat to the fiberglass, did your fiberglass become semi transparent? I ask just to make sure it got saturated enough and that all air pockets were squeegeed out. The use of a plastic spreader/putty knife would have made you less frustrated than a roller, but you live and learn 

I can't wait to see what's next. I hope you sketched up all of your panels in AutoCAD or Google Sketchup so someone could CNC cut some PVC sheets or Plywood sheets of your design in the future.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> Looks good man! You should have that thing in the house in a week or two from how fast you're progressing!
> 
> Question on the fiberglass, I've only used fiber glass with epoxy when it came to automotive body work and making negative molds of parts I wanted to duplicate with a vacuum former. When it came to using the fiberglass I was always taught to layer it and not trust a single sheet as overtime it can crack easier since the fibers only flow in a strong linear direction, and that you want to layer the weaves 90 degrees to one another for the best strength in body work as well as to reduce leaking from unsaturated fiberglass that had captured air pockets when creating vacuum form molds. Did the directions recommend to use only a single skin of fiberglass? Also, when it came to applying the epoxy/resin coat to the fiberglass, did your fiberglass become semi transparent? I ask just to make sure it got saturated enough and that all air pockets were squeegeed out. The use of a plastic spreader/putty knife would have made you less frustrated than a roller, but you live and learn
> 
> I can't wait to see what's next. I hope you sketched up all of your panels in AutoCAD or Google Sketchup so someone could CNC cut some PVC sheets or Plywood sheets of your design in the future.


The advantage of the chopped strand type of fiberglass is that the strands are matted together in random directions thus eliminating the need to for layers. Or at least that is what I read. Its also crazy overkill for a vivarium. For an aquarium that is going to hold thousands of pounds of water in, it totally makes sense. But for a vivarium where I got like 1 or 2 gallons in play... yeah I really don't think its needed. The regular woven fiberglass would be fine, especially since folks smear in some silicone overtop of the epoxy and that works for people as well.

The epoxy was black so I could never tell if the fiberglass turned transparent. But a LOT went on. I'm not worried about bubbles or anything because again, given what I'm doing with it, it should be fine. Just the coat of epoxy on top of everything would by itself waterproof the vivarium. The fiberglass everywhere was me going overboard.

While I do have a google sketchup model of this vivarium which if someone really wants, I'd be happy to provide; it is not cnc ready. None of the vents are cut into the model for instance since the model itself was created only for my benefit. Essentially when I go to make something its important for my own visualization to understand how long every part needs to be to fit together. Its incredibly annoying if you cut out all your parts only to realize that one part was cut so it would overlap another only to discover its too short because your own mental visualization was faulty. The sketchup model is created to avoid this. That way I can go back and reference it to see the dimensions of any given part and how its supposed to join with its neighbors. 

Anyway I'm hoping to have the vivarium complete sometime in the next couple of days. 

I have been picking up plants from the wild (my yard, my parents property since they have some acreage) to try and offset some of the cost of planting this vivarium. But I will definitely need more. The light I've started planning out with the help of a fellow who knows a lot more about lights then yours truly and its looking like that alone is going to run around 400 dollars when all is said and done. I'm guessing the whole package (sans frogs) is going to run around 1400-1600 dollars constructed, planted, lit, and watered.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

minorhero said:


> The epoxy was black so I could never tell if the fiberglass turned transparent. But a LOT went on. I'm not worried about bubbles or anything because again, given what I'm doing with it, it should be fine.


Boo, that's not helpful at all in the process... I'd be concerned that there would be chance that the plywood absorbed more of the epoxy than the fiberglass matting, but that hopefully should be negligible since you pre-coated the plywood with your pond armor.



minorhero said:


> I have been picking up plants from the wild (my yard, my parents property since they have some acreage) to try and offset some of the cost of planting this vivarium. But I will definitely need more.


What are you locally collecting for use? Being that our environment isn't a host for many tropical or really temperate, I'm figuring it's a lot of moss types and ferns?


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> What are you locally collecting for use? Being that our environment isn't a host for many tropical or really temperate, I'm figuring it's a lot of moss types and ferns?


I have a few ferns but mostly other species of plants. I honestly do not know what I have. While some plants will require a dormancy period each year to grow not all of them do. I have learned that there are quite a few aquarium plants that are native to our region. These are plants that in their normal course will reproduce mostly by seed and those seeds require a cold stratification period to germinate (hair grass species come to mind) but they will also live happily year round without this dormancy period. 

So is what I have collected a plant that can grow without the dormancy period? No idea, since I probably have a dozen different species at this point and have identified almost none of them. Since they were free I plan to just plant them and see how they grow. If they don't make it, then no big loss. In the meantime I have them growing in a 40 gallon breeder I have setup as a plant growout tank.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

minorhero said:


> So is what I have collected a plant that can grow without the dormancy period? No idea, since I probably have a dozen different species at this point and have identified almost none of them. Since they were free I plan to just plant them and see how they grow. If they don't make it, then no big loss. In the meantime I have them growing in a 40 gallon breeder I have setup as a plant growout tank.


Neat! I have a few native hairgrasses that I grow outside in my summer tubs that I've had growing for over a decade. If you want some of them I'm sure I could pull a few plugs of them if you want.


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## Philio (Apr 16, 2019)

Scrolled through this thread pretty fast as I'm short on time right now, but I wish you the best of luck!


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> Neat! I have a few native hairgrasses that I grow outside in my summer tubs that I've had growing for over a decade. If you want some of them I'm sure I could pull a few plugs of them if you want.


Thank you much appreciated! I actually grew eleocharis acicularis from seed in a tub outside this summer. I have a lot left over from other projects at this point. I thought for a time about adding it to the vivarium but I don't think I will at this time. Its aesthetically nice but not much use for a frog even so much as being navigable.



Philio said:


> Scrolled through this thread pretty fast as I'm short on time right now, but I wish you the best of luck!


Thank you! One of the frogs I am seriously considering for this enclosure is a group of highland bronze, how are you liking your frogs?


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update:

Painting has happened:



















After 2 to 3 coats of paint I was ready for the silicone!

I ended up buying 2 different sizes of mesh. I first bought some 20x20 mesh but when I tested it by pouring an aging fly culture on it I found that the still living mels were able to fall/crawl right through. So I put that aside and bought 30x30 mesh. This mesh has about 1/3rd smaller holes. This did the trick. 

My plan for siliconing the mesh to the vents was to put own the silicone and then clamp the mesh in place overtop with a piece of wood. To keep the silicone from sticking to the wood I used some blue painters tape. This would make a bit of mess where the silicone and mesh met, but it would be in places no one would look once the vivarium was setup. 



















At this point the vivarium is essentially done. I wanted to make sure that The Wife wouldn't hate the vivarium BEFORE I spent any more money on it (like sticking 150 dollars worth of cork to it). So I brought it inside so she could see it on the stand. 










I think it looks pretty good, and she appears to be adjusting to how big it is ;P

Anyway I still have a bit more work to do. I will need to silicone cork to the background and also to add the silicone seems to the doors. I also forgot to drill holes for tubes to run out the back for plumbing purposes. These are not water tight holes so I can still easily do it. But it does need to get done. Anyway this is a long way of saying I need to pick up the vivarium and take it back out to the shop for a few more days once my cork comes in. 

Speaking of cork I ordered 20 lbs from Maryland Cork. I specified thin flats and apparently they are 3.45 per pound plus shipping. I was hoping to pick them up from a location listed on google maps which is only a few minutes from my house but I was told that this location does not really exist. They have only 1 location and its north and east of baltimore, about 1.5 hours from me. Since they are only open during the week it doesn't really work for me so I am having them shipped.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

This is looking great! 

Only concern I'd like to bring up, for safety, is the proximity to the baseboard heaters. Generally, you want at least a foot of distance between objects and a baseboard heater to not have a fire hazard. 

The initial location you had the first stand would be nice, but it looks like it could be next to a fireplace which may be a concern if you use it often.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Tihsho said:


> This is looking great!
> 
> Only concern I'd like to bring up, for safety, is the proximity to the baseboard heaters. Generally, you want at least a foot of distance between objects and a baseboard heater to not have a fire hazard.
> 
> The initial location you had the first stand would be nice, but it looks like it could be next to a fireplace which may be a concern if you use it often.


I grew up with electric baseboard heaters and those things would catch this stand on fire for certain. They just got really hot.

These however are water baseboard heaters. My boiler in the basement heats up water and then a pump circulates it through these baseboard heating throughout the house. The water in the pipes never gets above 120-130 degrees so no danger of fire or even of singeing anything. That said, its likely the stand will get moved back to the original location anyway. We don't use the fireplace very often (the fireplace is not used for heating but only occasionally as an aesthetic appreciation). The Wife will undoubtable make me move this stand around the room several times before she is happy ;P


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

minorhero said:


> I grew up with electric baseboard heaters and those things would catch this stand on fire for certain. They just got really hot.
> 
> These however are water baseboard heaters. My boiler in the basement heats up water and then a pump circulates it through these baseboard heating throughout the house. The water in the pipes never gets above 120-130 degrees so no danger of fire or even of singeing anything. That said, its likely the stand will get moved back to the original location anyway. We don't use the fireplace very often (the fireplace is not used for heating but only occasionally as an aesthetic appreciation). The Wife will undoubtable make me move this stand around the room several times before she is happy ;P


Ok Phwew! I can't tell you how many times I've been into someone's home and seen couches wedged against an electric baseboard or seen aquarium stands but up against them. Seems that they are just overlooked rather than abused.

Once this project is up and running, I wonder how long it takes till the misses asks you to consolidate the hobby to a room or wall... Regardless it's going to be a nice view! I just hope you get the space you need and can use.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

Progress has happened! I placed my order with Maryland Cork on Monday and received 20 lbs of Thin Cork Flats in the mail on Tuesday evening. Total cost was 110 dollars shipped to my door and the quality was great. Would not consider going anywhere else for cork ever again.

I was worried I wouldn't have enough but this fear ended up being totally groundless, I had a LOT of cork left over. Probably enough I coul build another viv just like this one.

Here is what the vivarium looked like while I was siliconing the cork to the background:










Here is a picture of just the cork I had left over:










And here it is back in my house after the silicone set:










Pretty happy with how the cork turned out. I went with a slanted direction because I knew I wanted the wood I had to generally lean that direction as well. This way the background and the hardscape could integrate together.

I had from my last build almost a full 'bail' of dried long fiber sphagnum moss still lying around and I used almost all of it for this ;P I had a lot of cracks to fill.

After that was done I worked on the plumbing. I connected the hoses under the vivarium and the fittings up top. It's pretty simply setup, I have one hole in the bottom is my overflow the other will go to a canister filter. Here is what that looked like:










I wanted to maximize the amount of water the tank would hold so rather then just filling the whole thing up with calcined clay (Safe-T-Sorb for me) I first put down some matala mat. I ended up using some random pieces so I didn't completely fill the whole bottom with the stuff but I got almost all of the water filled area.










Here is one of the bags of Safe-T-Sorb I used:










I put down some fiberglass screen as a substrate barrier on top of the matala and then dumped in an entire 40lb bag of safe-t-sorb. This how it looked after that:










No where near enough, but I knew that going in. On top of the safe-t-sorb I added some aquarium aquasoil and mixed it in. The particular brand I chose is Dennerle Scaper's soil; chosen because it was relatively cheap:










At this point I could begin playing with hardscape. I added the wood trying out a few different configurations before settling on what I determined to be the best option. I then added most of a second bag of Safe-T-Sorb (probably 35 lbs worth). Then added a bunch of rocks I have lying around that I've used in a previous aquarium.

It is still a work in progress. Definitely not happy with the stones on the right, but this gives you a good idea of where I'm going with it:










This brings me up to current. I have also started on the silicone work for the doors (probably need to redo my fly strip but we will see) and I ordered my mistking today and all the parts to make my light should be in by Tuesday evening so stay tuned!


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Everything is coming together beautifully! When are you going to start making the stands and bare enclosures to be available on the market? 

Just a tip, cover your open front door area with cling film into you get back into it. I'm not sure if you have pets or how your central air works, but given time and due to the textures this inevitably will be covered with dust. The cling film will assist with keeping dusty air from getting into the enclosure. Perk about where the enclosure is situated, it looks like it's on hardwood, so thankfully it won't be as dust prone as carpet.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

The background looks amazing, and is enhanced by the rest of the wood you're using. Great job! 
This might turn into one of my favorite builds I've seen on here.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Update!

Its been more then 2 weeks since the last update and a lot has happened in that time. 

I finalized the hardscape (looked much the same with a few stones moved) and built the light!

This time I remembered to pre-tin the LEDs before attaching it to the heatsink ;P










I attached the LED COBs to the heatsink with thermal adhesive:










And then drilled the heatsink (should have done this first) to provide access for the wires:










Once that was done I could sheath the wires and then begin soldering the ends to the COBs:



















Once that was done it was just a matter of wiring up the drivers and attaching the power supply:










The results were... wow. REALLY BRIGHT. Insanely BRIGHT.



















I was aiming for 50 to 90 ppfd not 200. Apparently the easiest way to fix this is to use 2 COBs for each driver a nd this will cut the strength of the light in half approximately. I may do something else above and beyond that as well. 

Meanwhile I have continued working on the doors to figure out a good sealing method to keep in fruit flies. I originally put down a silicone bead but it failed almost immediately. The trouble is that there is almost a 1/4" gap between the two siding doors. That's a pretty big gap to fill with a silicone bead. The first solution I found for this was to use car door trim to fill the gap. This is the stuff that makes the seal on your car door and as you might imagine its pretty durable:










The trouble is its also unsightly when you look at it from the wrong angle, or at least the stuff I found was:










It did have the advantage of completely filling the gap between the doors and stayed on very well. It was easy to apply to as I just cut to length and then pushed it on over the edge of the glass. But I wasn't happy with it so I kept looking. And found an adhesive backed shower door seal which was absolutely perfect:










It completely fills the gap and is unobtrusive and easy to attach. If using 1/4" thick doors its the way to go. 

I also made a hood for the vivarium out of walnut while I was at it:










This brings me to a very sad point in the build. With the light and everything else in place I was ready to start planting. I hooked up my plumbing and began wetting the substrate and getting ready to test my dripping branch when I discovered the worst thing ever... a leak!!

Both bulkheads were leaking. I needed access so out went rocks wood and substrate:










I tried tightening the bulkheads and also resiliconing the seals. Neither worked. Now I am confident that I could eventually get this to work but... I have not been thrilled with the build for a while now. On the outside it looks fine but there have been issues.... I have been fixing them as I go but some of the fixes are not great. I have decided this is the last straw. I have decided to scrap this build and start over. 

This next build will use a lot of the lessons I learned in this build to hopefully make something better. The next build will feature a poured concrete basin, glass walls, and some kind of top. Not sure on this last as I would prefer to make it out of something that is not wood but I don't know anything other then pvc that is accessible. And PVC is prone to warping. 

So next up will be the dismantling of the vivarium and then the building of the mold for the concrete basin.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

OH NO! This is a total bummer, I'm sorry that you hit this bump when you did. 

If it were me I would skip the concrete base specifically for weight and additionally because it's going to require an extra layer of a sealant to make it water tight. Between the weight of your stands top, and then the additional weight of the base of the Viv I'd be cautious on where the final placement of the enclosure on anything but a ground floor. If you look around, there are a few places in MD that sell 1/2" 5'x8' sheets of PVC. Some HomeDepot's sell white sheets that have a texture on one side, and there a few other private vendors that sell non textured black sheets. Both are commonly used in building rack enclosures for snakes. Based on that, I've yet to ever hear or see one warp over the 10 years I've been dealing with them.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry to hear it, minorhero. You have worked hard on this. I think you have learned a ton, though, so maybe the next one will live up to your expectations. The only thing I could think to add is that whatever material Spectral Designs uses for their light enclosures might work for you for the top. I don't know enough about it to even know what it is, but it looks be fairly easy to work with, doesn't appear to warp (even with the heat of the lights), and is fairly attractive, at least to my eye.

If you were closer to me, I would offer to buy that build off of you. It looks great to me.

I wish you the best moving forward.

Edit: I wonder if the stuff SD uses for the their lights is the same as Tihso is talking about above.

Mark


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Oh no!!!!!!! 

Was the leak coming from the bulkheads? It wasn't coming from somewhere else?


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## Leite02 (Jan 19, 2020)

Sorry about what happened, your build was wonderful.
For the base, instead of cement you could try using an epoxy coat. Once hardened (if mixed correctly), I create a bomb proof layer / film.


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Thank you guys for the support!



Tihsho said:


> OH NO! This is a total bummer, I'm sorry that you hit this bump when you did.
> 
> If it were me I would skip the concrete base specifically for weight and additionally because it's going to require an extra layer of a sealant to make it water tight. Between the weight of your stands top, and then the additional weight of the base of the Viv I'd be cautious on where the final placement of the enclosure on anything but a ground floor. If you look around, there are a few places in MD that sell 1/2" 5'x8' sheets of PVC. Some HomeDepot's sell white sheets that have a texture on one side, and there a few other private vendors that sell non textured black sheets. Both are commonly used in building rack enclosures for snakes. Based on that, I've yet to ever hear or see one warp over the 10 years I've been dealing with them.


Sadly PVC will not work well for a basin. There are a few pvc dart frog enclosures floating around (some I think are even on this board) and where pvc meets glass they tend to warp a bit. Not a lot but enough to let fruit flies out. I'm hoping to make all sides of the base about 1/2" thick. If I hit my goal the basin should weigh somewhere between 50 to 100 lbs depending on how many bags of concrete it takes. Given that the stand and location are designed to take a 75 gallon aquarium filled with water (about 850 lbs) I shouldn't have an issue when it comes to weight.



Encyclia said:


> Sorry to hear it, minorhero. You have worked hard on this. I think you have learned a ton, though, so maybe the next one will live up to your expectations. The only thing I could think to add is that whatever material Spectral Designs uses for their light enclosures might work for you for the top. I don't know enough about it to even know what it is, but it looks be fairly easy to work with, doesn't appear to warp (even with the heat of the lights), and is fairly attractive, at least to my eye.
> 
> If you were closer to me, I would offer to buy that build off of you. It looks great to me.
> 
> ...


I don't own an SD light so I can't be sure but it certainly looks like pvc in their pictures. 



Leite02 said:


> Sorry about what happened, your build was wonderful.
> For the base, instead of cement you could try using an epoxy coat. Once hardened (if mixed correctly), I create a bomb proof layer / film.


I currently have a wooden base that is coated in epoxy, its waterproof but has other issues (such as the leaking bulkheasds etc). 




fishingguy12345 said:


> Oh no!!!!!!!
> 
> Was the leak coming from the bulkheads? It wasn't coming from somewhere else?


The leaks were definitely coming from the bulkheads. I could see them dripping when I positioned the vivarium in such a way that gave me access.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

minorhero said:


> Sadly PVC will not work well for a basin. There are a few pvc dart frog enclosures floating around (some I think are even on this board) and where pvc meets glass they tend to warp a bit. Not a lot but enough to let fruit flies out. I'm hoping to make all sides of the base about 1/2" thick. If I hit my goal the basin should weigh somewhere between 50 to 100 lbs depending on how many bags of concrete it takes. Given that the stand and location are designed to take a 75 gallon aquarium filled with water (about 850 lbs) I shouldn't have an issue when it comes to weight.


It takes a lot for 1/2" PVC to warp. If you think it will you can definitely double up the sheets and I can tell you, 1" PVC sheets will not flex unless you're going to have thousands of pounds of force.


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## Leite02 (Jan 19, 2020)

Whatever you do, I'm sure the next one will be as or more beautiful than this one!
Do not be discouraged and good luck!


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Could it be Faulty bulkheads? Were they the same brand/type/size?


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Could it be Faulty bulkheads? Were they the same brand/type/size?


Its possible but unlikely. Its a pretty simply design. I did get one to stop leaking at one point during my tear down rebuild process but the other always leaked. Its almost certainly an issue of not having a perfectly flat surface to mate against. I tried to counter this with silicone but it clearly didn't work.


Tihsho said:


> It takes a lot for 1/2" PVC to warp. If you think it will you can definitely double up the sheets and I can tell you, 1" PVC sheets will not flex unless you're going to have thousands of pounds of force.


Admittedly I do not have first hand experience with this material only what I've read. That said I will look into it as a possibility. It has the advantage over cement in that it will be far easier to fabricate and would be less likely to break/crack. My main concern for it is one part warping and one part aesthetics. I need to be able to make it look good.


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## Tihsho (Sep 21, 2009)

Before scraping the current build, unless it's too far gone, I'd look into a food grade RTV to try sealing the bulkhead. Key is to lay it on and not tighten the bulkhead down 100%, let it set for 24 hours and then come back and tighten down the bulkhead. This basically creates a DIY o-ring seal.

Thick PVC sheets are not hard to work with and they don't crack. You cut them on a table saw just like wood. As for aesthetics, you could always put a veneer trim around the base and the top if you're looking to cover up anything. Your wood work looks great, so I'd be surprised if you don't do something like that regardless.


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## justinc468 (Jun 27, 2020)

Wow, this looked awesome and such a bummer to hear. Following along for next steps.


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## DPfarr (Nov 24, 2017)

A concrete basin sounds really classy. Not much in the way of insulative power but I’m imagining the concrete counters I’ve helped with. Excited to see that and maybe replicating a concrete basin in the future.


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear that this had to be scrapped. It was shaping up really nicely. I'm definitely keeping watch for you next builds!


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