# Benedicta or escudo?



## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

I would like to no which frogs you would rather have. So which one and why?


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

Both, you can't settle for just one of them!


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## ExoticPocket (Dec 23, 2010)

I would go for benedicta cause they look cooler to me. Its a personal preference. But go for the benedicta!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think, since you have Varadero, that you would enjoy the Escudo. Pums are just very cool frogs.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Only one choice, Benedicta! It looks hot, you can actually see it, easy choice.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I saw a one in person for the first time a few weeks ago. Actually there were two. They weren't even fully grown and they were still way bigger than I thought they'd be. Man, they're showy.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

JimO said:


> I saw a one in person for the first time a few weeks ago. Actually there were two. They weren't even fully grown and they were still way bigger than I thought they'd be. Man, they're showy.


Benedicta?


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks for the comments. I really love both and they those must have frogs. I have heard many different facts about them.


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## EricB (Mar 2, 2010)

I vote Escudo only because I have two males looking for love.. haha
I can't believe a frog so small has a call so loud.. it's amazing honestly. 

I've never seen Benedictas in person, but I'm sure the fantastic pictures a few people have shot really don't even do them justice.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I've got both. There is no comparison. It's like comparing strawberries and super models. Both are awesome, but different kinds of awesome.

However, if you have the current option of getting either (you've found a source for both) go with the escudo. Benedicta are flooding the market just a bit and will continue to do so. Escudo are an obligate that will no longer be imported into the US, meaning the escudo will be perpetually harder to find while benedicta will become perpetually easier to find. So, get the escudo and hang on to them, then when you have more money and another tank get the benedicta.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i forgot to hit send on this message earlier  oops.

both. 

oophaga sp. escudo, will be rare frogs in the future if theyre anythinglike pumilio that have been imported in the past, not only that, they come from a protected area (supposedly) and its VERY likely that they arent pumilio at all but the 10th species in the genus oophaga .

benedicta are gorgeous, but the fact they are shy, makes me hesitant to drop the big $$s on them. (if i had that type of cash on hand). 

ive got one, and i'll wait till the others price drops a little, i think they are both amazing frogs in their own rite. 

james


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I've got both. There is no comparison. It's like comparing strawberries and super models. Both are awesome, but different kinds of awesome.
> 
> However, if you have the current option of getting either (you've found a source for both) go with the escudo. Benedicta are flooding the market just a bit and will continue to do so. Escudo are an obligate that will no longer be imported into the US, meaning the escudo will be perpetually harder to find while benedicta will become perpetually easier to find. So, get the escudo and hang on to them, then when you have more money and another tank get the benedicta.


The thing is I'm only allowed 2 tanks and I already have 1 so....


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I have escudos as well, they tend to be brave in a well planted viv plus have a great call.
Note both the benedicta and escudos IMO are advanced frogs.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

wouldnt hesitate one sec to get the escudo, no longer being imported, and obligate... not going to see many around. if you do pick the Ben. let me know who has the escudo  currently looking for a pair.


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I've got both. There is no comparison. It's like comparing strawberries and super models. Both are awesome, but different kinds of awesome.
> 
> However, if you have the current option of getting either (you've found a source for both) go with the escudo. Benedicta are flooding the market just a bit and will continue to do so. Escudo are an obligate that will no longer be imported into the US, meaning the escudo will be perpetually harder to find while benedicta will become perpetually easier to find. So, get the escudo and hang on to them, then when you have more money and another tank get the benedicta.



Jake, did you get them already?!? 
I also have both and can say that I see my escudo on a far more regular basis. My Benedicta are still young so I'm hoping with age they will begin to venture out of the leaf litter a bit more. It all comes down to individual preference, $ you wanna spend, and availability of the frogs in question..do you have access to both, if not maybe your decision is kinda already made..

Chris


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Tuckinrim8 said:


> Jake, did you get them already?!?
> I also have both and can say that I see my escudo on a far more regular basis. My Benedicta are still young so I'm hoping with age they will begin to venture out of the leaf litter a bit more. It all comes down to individual preference, $ you wanna spend, and availability of the frogs in question..do you have access to both, if not maybe your decision is kinda already made..
> 
> Chris


I really can't decide. I really don't care about the imports and how rare they might be. I just want a frog that I would be able to care for and I could see. You would think the bigger the bolder right?


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Since you already have the varadero I would say go with the escudo. They are beautiful little frogs and it will had a bit more variation to your collection.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

flapjax3000 said:


> Since you already have the varadero I would say go with the escudo. They are beautiful little frogs and it will had a bit more variation to your collection.


Very good point.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Right no I am leaning towards the escudo for two reason variation in the collection and they look way different then the varadero.

As for the benedicta the thing that's holding me bach is there shyness and they sort of look like varaderos.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Tuckinrim8 said:


> Jake, did you get them already?!?
> I also have both and can say that I see my escudo on a far more regular basis. My Benedicta are still young so I'm hoping with age they will begin to venture out of the leaf litter a bit more. It all comes down to individual preference, $ you wanna spend, and availability of the frogs in question..do you have access to both, if not maybe your decision is kinda already made..
> 
> Chris


Yup. Escudo are over here. They call all day.

Chris, with that tank you have you _will_ see them when they start breeding. Just gotta be patient for them to get to that point 

If there's a limit to the number of tanks, is there a limit to the size of those tanks? Keep in mind that the escudo are an obligate and will benefit from having a rather large tank.

In regards to boldness, it tends to be really variable. Escudo can be pretty shy. Benedicta are a naturally shy frog, but when adulthood sets in and breeding starts taking place they are out far more often. I see my benedicta every day. They get shy when company is over, but I see them every day.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Hmm I already have a 20g set up so I might just got bigger. I need to find a big tank though. Maybe a new exo?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

my escudo are pretty shy as well and as surprising as it may sound, they blend in with leaf litter extremely well. not to mention that they are very, VERY small. considerably smaller than other pumilio (if you believe that they are pumilio) and are more along the lines (size wise) of some pumilio metamorphs. it really surprised me to see just how diminutive they really are.

james


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## Feelin Froggy (May 12, 2011)

Benedicta are pretty amazing! I still havent seen them in person but ALL of the pics and video's I've watched have convinced me!! To be honest tho... how could you lose with either!?


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks for the replys I have to see how this places out.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

A good 20 gallon might be adequate... but really I don't imagine a 20 gallon to be great for escudo. My PAIR of escudo are going in a 24x18x24 exo terra.

Does it really have to be either of these frogs? If you're limited to two vivariums you might consider getting a frog that will most definitely be out, something that you'll be able to appreciate. I love my benedicta, I love seeing their courting display, I love their colors, but if it were my only tank I'd be rather disappointed. Like I said, I see my benedicta every day, but I don't see them _that_ frequently. I imagine it's about the same with escudo (I haven't put my escudo in their full enclosure so I haven't been subject to their full personalities just yet, but the tanks I have seen with escudo in them, the frogs aren't out all that often).


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks. I already have a frog that I see everytime I look in so this frog will be my absolute favorite frog.


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

I voted benedicta. They seem really cool from what i've read compared to escudo but escudo has better coloring IMO


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

It's weird I heard benedicta being shy and escudos being bold but also benedicta being bold and escudos shy.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

well when i gave my choice i wasnt just saying it, i ended up picking up a pair of escudos yesterday so i put my money where mouth was and now im REALLY excited.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Sick!!! what are they like?


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## boombotty (Oct 12, 2005)

I love my bennies. I have 6 in a 50g and they are somewhat bold, I can always see 3 or so. Since they have been breeding, they have become very entertaing to watch.

I also really like the older imports of escudos that have more of the bright red on their tops. I'm not a real big fan of the more recent ones that are more brown/red or more blue.

If you are looking for a bright pum, I had a pair of solarte that were great. Bright red, bold, and a great call. You might check into these as well.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

motydesign said:


> well when i gave my choice i wasnt just saying it, i ended up picking up a pair of escudos yesterday so i put my money where mouth was and now im REALLY excited.


you picked up t_kosch's pair. I was looking at them too. He sure is a beauty.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

hahah yup, and thats actually the female.
it sucks i had to put a hold on having Tiffany shipping cause were at mid 90s til next thursdays.

are you any closer to knowing which youre going work with?


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

boombotty said:


> I love my bennies. I have 6 in a 50g and they are somewhat bold, I can always see 3 or so. Since they have been breeding, they have become very entertaing to watch.
> 
> I also really like the older imports of escudos that have more of the bright red on their tops. I'm not a real big fan of the more recent ones that are more brown/red or more blue.
> 
> If you are looking for a bright pum, I had a pair of solarte that were great. Bright red, bold, and a great call. You might check into these as well.


I think the brown and blue is pretty ugly. You two have made very hard to decide which one. 

did you get them from Chris Miller?


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

i wish I had the money at the moment but she sure is beautiful.


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## boombotty (Oct 12, 2005)

Yep, got them from Chris back in late January and was very happy with them and dealing with him.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

If I choose bene's I am defiantly going to him. If I go with escudo sndf here I come!


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## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

motydesign said:


> well when i gave my choice i wasnt just saying it, i ended up picking up a pair of escudos yesterday so i put my money where mouth was and now im REALLY excited.


Whoa can i borrow your camera, and the frog? lol ^^


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

vivlover10 said:


> I think the brown and blue is pretty ugly. You two have made very hard to decide which one.
> 
> did you get them from Chris Miller?


I picked up Tiffany's other pair. I got a "blue and brown" female. She's actually just as ool as my bright red and blue escudo. The "brown" is actually a goldish greenish tint on mine. Super cool. Also awesome to have the phenotypic variation.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks for all the replys it's really comeing down to flipping a coin!


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

I didn't vote either way, I also already have both.

My escudo are way bolder, I see them all the time.

However, the benedicta are much easier to breed. They are quite sturdy, breed easily and you can pull eggs or let the parents raise them.

If I were looking to get either, I'd probably go with the escudo as the price will continue to drop on the benedicta.

Deb


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

billschwinn said:


> Only one choice, Benedicta! It looks hot, you can actually see it, easy choice.


I thought benedicta where skittish or at least most of them.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

salix said:


> I didn't vote either way, I also already have both.
> 
> My escudo are way bolder, I see them all the time.
> 
> ...


I read that benedicta don't egg feed so that means they eat dead fruitflies.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

After researching for a little while I came up with this;

benedicta; 

Difficulty; easy ( easy to breed, care and supply) supply= supplies large so fruit flies and Isos, springs not really needed but good to have.

Why are benedicta shy? Benedicta like shade or dim lighting and heavily planted tanks. Most of the people that say benedicta are shy is because they don't provide what I just listed. Also froglets tend to be shy.

Group frog? Yes

behavior? All depends on the frog

escudo;

difficulty; hard (due to it's small size and breeding)

what causes escudo to be considered hard? The small size. In a post I found James stated that the escudos are the size of a retic with the difficulty of a pumilio. I believe this is true. The escudos also NEED springs and isos. You need to culture them as well as fruitflies for the parents. Also you need clay substrate. It is a must if you want them to be successful at breeding. Also there small size will make them less visable in a vivarium. I've heard they are bold, shy and really anything. You also must have broms in the viv!

Group frog? No (should be kept in pairs and trios)
Behavior; all depends on the frog


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i dont keep benedicta, but being part of the fantastica complex i cant imagine them being "easy" frogs. 

also, i personally dont think clay substrate is necessary for any frog. and the fact that people regularly breed them w/o clay, is a testament to that fact. can it help?, sure, who knows, but its not a necessity. 

james


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

vivlover10 said:


> After researching for a little while I came up with this;
> 
> benedicta;
> 
> ...


In my opinion, you should essentially be caring for both frogs the same way (minor tweaks aside). Just because a frog is not a pumilio doesn't mean you should leave out pieces of sensible care/husbandry. Half of this hobby is the attempt to create the best possible habitats for our animals.

All of the things you mentioned- microfauna (springs/isos), leaf litter, broms, a heavily planted viv, clay (I don't do an all-out clay substrate, but turface & redart are very cheap so I always add some to my ABG mix.. clay bg's are very cheap/easy also)- these things might not be totally necessary for some frogs, but they benefit all of them. In most cases, a given frog would have access to several of those 'amenities' (or equivalents) in the wild. We should give them the same opportunity in captivity.... especially since all of that stuff is so cheap and accessible. 

I guess my point is, it's my opinion that you should be giving every frog the "pumilio treatment," pumilio or not. I'd recommend getting ahold of all of the plants/bugs/supplies you mentioned no matter which frog you choose... or even sooner. Your soon-to-be varadero froglets will thank you. 



james67 said:


> i dont keep benedicta, but being part of the fantastica complex i cant imagine them being "easy" frogs.
> 
> also, i personally dont think clay substrate is necessary for any frog. and the fact that people regularly breed them w/o clay, is a testament to that fact. can it help?, sure, who knows, but its not a necessity.
> 
> james


Probably not a necessity.... but @ $12 for 50 lbs. of turface, if it helps just one froglet survive (either directly, or indirectly by providing the breeding female with more calcium), it has already paid for itself. 

Also, on a bigger scale, if that $12 can increase the chances of some rarer froglets (pumilio, retics, etc) surviving and making it out into the hobby, it's worth it.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Where can i get turface? I understand what you are saying too. I plan on setting up the tank anyway with tons of tad rearing broms, clay substrate and tons of leaf litter. 



tclipse said:


> In my opinion, you should essentially be caring for both frogs the same way (minor tweaks aside). Just because a frog is not a pumilio doesn't mean you should leave out pieces of sensible care/husbandry. Half of this hobby is the attempt to create the best possible habitats for our animals.
> 
> All of the things you mentioned- microfauna (springs/isos), leaf litter, broms, a heavily planted viv, clay (I don't do an all-out clay substrate, but turface & redart are very cheap so I always add some to my ABG mix.. clay bg's are very cheap/easy also)- these things might not be totally necessary for some frogs, but they benefit all of them. In most cases, a given frog would have access to several of those 'amenities' (or equivalents) in the wild. We should give them the same opportunity in captivity.... especially since all of that stuff is so cheap and accessible.
> 
> ...


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Here is a branch locator of places that will sale Turface. Its also known as infield conditioner or quick dry. Its the same type of material you see on baseball fields.

Branch Locator


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

What other place sells it? I don't get it, does it have the calcium and vitamins that they benefit from? How can I encorperate the redart clay? 

Thanks


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Bump... I still want to know peoples ideas and thoughts.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

why not use pumilo's clay substrate method
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63732-clay-substrate-how.html


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