# my isos are destroying my plants!



## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

I set up my viv. Added springs and dwarf purple isos. I think I added too many isos. I had a small culture that was set up for about 3 months. I was going to be for a 55g viv but I decided to set up this small zoomed. (12x12x18) I started the culture with 30 give or take adults. So when the time came I didn't have to play around catching them. I just dumped them in.

anyway my purple passion plant is looking like swiss cheese and my pilea friendship is almost dead! I KNOW it's them doing it because I see the little buggers doing it. And also I did process my plants (always follow ne herps website) and baked boiled everything else. So I know it's definitely the isos.

I will be getting 3 chazutas on Tuesday from UE. Will they be able to eat the isos or will these thumbs be too small for them or should I add a water trap to kill some off or add something for the isos to eat besides my plants? As for leaf litter..it's loaded with the live oak leaves from NE herp.

I'm really annoyed. I thought they only ate decaying matter.. NOPE! grrr


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

That seems very odd to me. I have never experienced any ISOs eating any kind of live plants. I'm thinking maybe if your Viv is brand new there is nothing else for them to eat.

My suggestion would be to add something else for them to eat. Bug burger is great if you have it, but dog food, fish flakes, cucumber, pumpkin, or any of the foods in one of Pumlio's ISO feeding threads would be good.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Could you post some pictures please? I've never heard of such a thing.
Are you absolutely positive that the plants don't have an unrelated problem, and the isopods are eating the diseased material?


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I also find that mushroom stems (scraps from the kitchen) are great food for iso's.


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

Sounds like slugs.


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## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

Yes I'm 100% sure it's the isos. I have been seeing them chewing on healthy leaves for days now. I spray them off when I mist but that really doesn't help. They have basically killed the pilea. So now that those leaves are dead due to the isos the springs have started to join in now. 

I will get a pic tomorrow after work. But I did add food so there might not be any bug action on them by then. If i am able to get a pic, it might not be the best pic tho. I have the s4 and it tends to blur when I zoom in. 

And although I'm somewhat new with darts. I am familiar with slugs. I haven't seen any glittery or slimy trails. No trails on the glass through the moisture. So I'm pretty certain I don't have slugs. (Knocks on wood)


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## Jeremy M (Oct 19, 2012)

Interesting, this surely is a highly uncommon phenomenon. The issue is that in a proper naturalistic viv there are simply too many uncontrollable and unseen factors that we aren't able to predict or see in the works. There are plenty of teeny tiny bugs that can cause plant damage that would be very hard to find even with the trained eye, especially if the leaves were crawling with other critters. I would suggest setting up an experiment where you buy a healthy plant of the same variety from a different source than you got your others and set it up in its own container using different medium, different tools and in a different location than your other one (both for construction and storage). I'm thinking do a simple vase set up, or just put a pot in a vase and seal the lid some to help increase humidity. Let it settle in to its new environment for a few weeks. Then take some of your isopods- and make sure you only get the isopods; perhaps brush them from the leaves with a paint brush onto a piece of paper, fold the paper's edges together, hold it at a slightly elevated angle, block the lower exit and force them to climb under their own power up the ramp and into the larger container. This would prevent most smaller bugs from being transferred to the new container unless they are carried by the isos (which is possible). If you find that they consume the healthy leaves of the new plant as well, then you should proceed to destroy all of your iso cultures with fire so they'll never have a chance to harm any one else's plants again.

You should also consider replicating everything you did to set up your viv in a similar vase setup except don't add the isos and see if the damage presents itself. Remember that observation is just the first step of science... then you actually have to come up with a process to replicate that observation, which is often a lengthy, involved and somewhat messy process.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

With a humid environment, you may notice any slug trails on the leaves or on the glass (I never do, anyway, and I have both slugs and snails in some of my tanks).

If it makes you feel any better, no plant in the wild makes it out unscathed:


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## Mike1239 (May 15, 2012)

You are going to have add something they like better. I heard people say thin sliced carrots are good. Good luck


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I've never seen iso's kill a plant. I'd bet its either slugs or disease/rot/etc


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Isopods are known to feed on plants but this is generally restricted to areas that are already damages or are very young leaf areas. In the latter cases, this is often due to insufficient food sources being available for the isopods. Dried leaves aren't generally palatable for the isopods until they have begun to decompose as this makes the nutrients available for the isopods (and they feed on the bacteria doing the decomposition as well at the same time. 

When you see isopods feeding on plants, the first thing to suspect is that there is something else damaging the plant so it becomes attractive to the isopod. If there are no other options then move to that there may be insufficient other foods for the isopods and adding something more desirable may tempt them away from the plants (something like bug burger, or even possibly some flake fish food). 

See for example Common Insects And Associated Pests, HYG-2151-91

Some comments 

Ed


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## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

Hi ed. Thanks for your input. I actually searched this question and saw another reply from you on the subject stating the same info. 

This tank didn't mold up when cycling like my first tank did. Very little bit of mold on the wood. That was it. I assumed they would of eaten the leaves.. I was wrong. And trust me when i say the plants were healthy. I have added food for them and so far when I have checked I haven't seen any more isos eating the plants. And I had a very busy day today so I wasn't able to check on it much. 

I'm hoping the plants will bounce back. If not.. I'll just replace them.

I might add a trap for some of the isos if it continues even after adding food for them. I didn't realize how many isos were in that small culture I started several months ago. 

Thank you all for your replies..


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## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

Ps
I highly doubt it's slugs/snails. I bare rooted and processed the plants and everything else in the viv. I even try my hardest to wipe all the leaves with my thumb and pointer/middle finger after the bleach soak before rinsing them. Again I say it's possible but I highly doubt it. 

Gnite all


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

If it was the isos,the plants should bounce back if you keep them fed.If it still happens after that,then it's something else.The only time I've seen them eat healthy plants is when they are really hungry and have nothing else to eat.You shouldn't need a trap.Also I find the larger isos fall prey to my water cups sometimes,but I've never seen any of my dwarf varieties fall for it.Maybe I'm just lucky .Good luck with them.

Edit: I also wanted to add that the frogs will help control them too after you add them.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

pinkpony said:


> I set up my viv. Added springs and dwarf purple isos. I think I added too many isos. I had a small culture that was set up for about 3 months. I was going to be for a 55g viv but I decided to set up this small zoomed. (12x12x18) I started the culture with 30 give or take adults. So when the time came I didn't have to play around catching them. I just dumped them in.
> 
> anyway my purple passion plant is looking like swiss cheese and my pilea friendship is almost dead! I KNOW it's them doing it because I see the little buggers doing it. And also I did process my plants (always follow ne herps website) and baked boiled everything else. So I know it's definitely the isos.
> 
> ...


Folius just start selling an iso pellet, go check it out, im not sure because I have no Iso's but want some, will probably keep them in a 2.5-5 gallon tank and see how they act before adding any, try adding carrots or a potato slice, maybe they like the starch and a 1/4 potato goes a long way. Aside from that I have plant dmg from fruit flies, the flying kind, my first tank got hit hard, nothing in it but springs and plants, I live in an area with tons of toads, I caught a male and a female and put them in that tank, no more fruit flies, as a matter of fact I think I saw mites, haven't really seen any in a while, I am feeding my toads every other day with calcium/d3 supplements every other feeding, they are doing great but true to toad nature are burrowing throughout, plants seem fine however, actually getting better to be honest, but as they burrow so e plants are tilting yet growing great lol


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

What exactly is the time line and sequence of events? 

IE Purchased plants from NE herp, they arrived on Day X
Processed on Day Y
Added to tank 16 hours later. 
Isolpods added to tank day Z.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Wusserton said:


> try adding carrots or a potato slice, maybe they like the starch and a 1/4 potato goes a long way


Again, they only feed on these materials if there is damage to the plant. As the potato or carrot forms callouses and begins to root, these become less palatable to the isopods. Again, they prefer the parts if they are being attacked by microbes.... 



Wusserton said:


> Aside from that I have plant dmg from fruit flies, the flying kind, my first tank got hit hard, nothing in it but springs and plants,


I'm going to state with great confidence, that it wasn't fruit flies attacking your plants. It was some other flying insect. 


Some comments 

Ed


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## Yobosayo (Sep 27, 2009)

I have a tank in which the dwarf wood lice are fond of moss. I couldn't figure out what was happening to my moss until I misted the spot and watched as a dozen or so isos scurried away.

I've tried several different kinds of veggie slices to keep them from chomping on the moss - zucchini and green beans seem to work the best for me.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Yobosayo said:


> I have a tank in which the dwarf wood lice are fond of moss. I couldn't figure out what was happening to my moss until I misted the spot and watched as a dozen or so isos scurried away.
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried several different kinds of veggie slices to keep them from chomping on the moss - zucchini and green beans seem to work the best for me.



Nice, insects like veggies, I dont have wood lice but was guessing starchy would be the way to go, gotta upkeep it daily, potatoes mold, their keen on blights, if zucchini works that go with it! also change out daily, I had flying fruits or bot flies don't know, they were decimating my plants, no frogs in this tank, I caught a couple toads around my house, eastern toads, they cleared it right up, been feeding them vitamin fortified crickets every other day or so, toads are hungry, they eat lol they are also diggers, they have dug, they haven't killed a single plant though, but they are messy, i have what I believe are two females, they have kept distance from each other and after another 2 or so weeks will be re released back into the wild, but until than they will be fed very nicely and with good vitamins and calcium, I watch them very closely every day


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Ed said:


> Again, they only feed on these materials if there is damage to the plant. As the potato or carrot forms callouses and begins to root, these become less palatable to the isopods. Again, they prefer the parts if they are being attacked by microbes....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not the flightless kind, maybe small bot flies or nats, fond of vegetation, problem solved for now 


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Wusserton said:


> Not the flightless kind, maybe small bot flies or nats, fond of vegetation, problem solved for now


And I can also say with great confidence that it wasn't bot flies. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Wusserton said:


> they have kept distance from each other and after another 2 or so weeks will be re released back into the wild, but until than they will be fed very nicely and with good vitamins and calcium, I watch them very closely every day


Two things here... 
first off if you have other captive reptiles and amphibians that are not native to that area, you should not release the toads. This is a direct risk to the wild population from novel pathogens and parasites and has been documented to cause problems with wild populations ranging from chytrid (such as occurred with the midwife toads) to viruses that are novel to that population (Ambystoma ssp), to bacterial infections (such as mycoplasma in native tortoises and box turtles). If you are unwilling to keep them, find someone else who wants them. Releasing them may also require a rehabber's permit as many states are now recognizing the risk to native populations and trying to regulate it. 

Second... you should never recycle a cage with new animals, particularly one where you housed animals from disparate terrestrial locations. So if you aren't going to keep the toads, you need to toss all of the organics and disinfect the tank before making a new builld. 

Typically flying things in a tank are common during the break in period and if left alone die out in a few weeks to a month or more. If there aren't any animals in the cage and the cage is properly secure against fruit flies, then you can simply wait them out. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Their hanging with eachother now, dude I caught the toads out back I would literally be releasing them 5 feet from where I picked them up lol

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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Wusserton said:


> Their hanging with eachother now, dude I caught the toads out back I would literally be releasing them 5 feet from where I picked them up lol


How far away you got the toads doesn't matter. If you have other reptiles and/or amphibians you have a responsibility to keep them now and to deal with the tank if you find them another home. 

It's an inconvenience but you made the choices and have to deal with it. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

They are in the tank all alone I dont mix breeds

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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Wusserton said:


> They are in the tank all alone I dont mix breeds
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


I guess either I'm not being clear or your ignoring what I said... 

*IF you have any other reptiles and/or amphibians in your house,* you should not release the toads and it may be illegal to do so without a rehabber's permit. See my previous posts... 

And you shouldn't reuse the cage without stripping and disinfecting it... 


Some comments 

Ed


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