# Breeding advice for Varadero??



## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

So, given that Thumb's and Pum's tend to just feed at their own leisure.. It is semi difficult to ensure they are always getting the vit A and cal+ with dustings.. I have had this pair of F1's from a buddy here on the forums and we have kept in touch for the last two years.. This pair is about 2 years old at this point in time and have produced a TON of eggs... lots of calling but have only ever given me about 4 or 5 viable eggs.. 2 of which morphed wonderfully and the other 3 well... lets say there was an owner error with those ones and I ended up killing them.. 

For the longest time we almost thought perhaps the male was infertile.. I have taken it upon myself to separate the two today and they are both in 5 gallon temp tubs at the moment. I will continue to feed flies with Cal+/Vit A as needed with the pair. I do think the problem lies with the male and not so much the female. Both appear to be in great health. The female is the bolder of the 2 and used to eat like a tinc and at one point almost had her trained to come to the feeding spot when the cup entered the picture lol. 

Any successful thumb breeders want to give me some good advice here?? Doug, I expect some feedback and advice lol


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

If it's truly a male problem, you can buy zinc supplements & crush them into a powder. Then dust his flies with it. 

My suggestion is to stop pulling the eggs. 
I have never pulled eggs from my Imitators. I leave the eggs in the tank & just let them transport the tads into a couple film cansters filled with water ... then I pull the tads from there.

Try not pulling them & see what happens.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I dont ever pull the eggs.. Just the one time messing around with a brom killed the 3 I killed. I let them do their own thing. They always mold over after they show some signs of life.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

How often are you supplementing with straight Vitamin A?


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I was doing it once a week for about a month.. maybe 2 tops.. The issue is they dont eat at regular times. I literally fed them 3 days ago and their 10g tank they shared still has a ton of flies in it. It was also severely over run with spring tails lol. literally the springs were living on the glass.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Excess flies is a sign of overfeeding.
The only other option I can see then is to cut down on feeding to ensure they're supplemented better. Feed smaller amounts spaced out further apart.
Maybe feed every 2 or 3 days if necessary. 
If already doing that, then use the flies as an indicator. If you see any in tank, skip a feeding that day. Continue to skip until flies are not visible ... then skip 2-3 more days. THEN feed.

Frogs without any microfauna in viv, only need on average, about 8 flies per week to meet their calorie intake requirements. When microfauna is present, that number is even less.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

for sure. I have always fed the same amount. never an issue before this move. But I will def go from there!


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Gamble said:


> If it's truly a male problem, you can buy zinc supplements & crush them into a powder. Then dust his flies with it.


I have heard of using Folic Acid for stimulating breeding. What does Zinc do for males?



Gamble said:


> Frogs without any microfauna in viv, only need on average, about 8 flies per week to meet their calorie intake requirements.


What is this calculation based on? 
I think I read a post by Ed where he stated 10 melanos per gram of frog per day somewhere.


In this post, it is mentioned that only females are affected by Vitamin A deficiency where fertilization is concerned.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/86708-deformed-toes.html#post768010


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Reef_Haven said:


> I have heard of using Folic Acid for stimulating breeding. What does Zinc do for males?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Zinc is a reproductive health supplement usually used by men to increase sperm count.
It has been used by froggers in the past when males were the issue with poor reproduction. 

In regards to feeding calculations, yes it was discussed by Ed ... we were both wrong, but you were much closer than I. It was a total hatchet job on my part. Thanks for pointing it out.
Here is what Ed said ...

"I think most people would be shocked to find out just how little the frogs actually need... Based on the calculations and values in Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry, a one gram frog can have it's resting metabolism met by about 6 flies a day at 25 C (which is warmer than many people keep thier cages, so in reality it is less).... A hyped up metabolism such as an actively growing 1 gram froglet at 25 C can require between 12-40 flies/day depending on a number of factors but in reality it is probably closer to 20... IF the frog(s) don't have to forage much (which is typical in most enclosures) then the number needed is lower... If there are springtails/isopods or other microfauna, then the number is lower....*As with many reptiles,*the caloric needs do not need to be met daily, and can be spread out over multiple days... SO yes even with actively growing froglets, you can skip a day or days provided the caloric needs are still being met.*".


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks for digging up that quote from Ed. I guess after reading 6, 12-40, and 20 I justed rounded it out to 10 in my mind.

Thanks also for the Zinc tip, I'll look into that some more.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Sound advice from Gamble, Brandon.....

sent from my Galaxy S lll


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Azurel said:


> Sound advice from Gamble, Brandon.....
> 
> sent from my Galaxy S lll


Thank you Mr.Wesley


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Wrong thread.....

sent from my Galaxy S lll


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