# Silicone fumes kills plants?!?!?



## Rick

So yesterday i siliconed the back onto my tank using DAP 100% silicone. When i returned from school today i noticed that all of my my begonias and my wandering jew in the tank are dying! I asume this is because of the silicone? I have never heard of this happening and i am curious on what i should do. I really dont want to lose my plants, should i remove the glass hood for ventalation or just take out the plants?


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## afterdark

Rick said:


> So yesterday i siliconed the back onto my tank using DAP 100% silicone. When i returned from school today i noticed that all of my my begonias and my wandering jew in the tank are dying! I asume this is because of the silicone? I have never heard of this happening and i am curious on what i should do. I really dont want to lose my plants, should i remove the glass hood for ventalation or just take out the plants?


My understanding is that the fumes can absolutely kill your plants. Not to mention they can permeate your substrate and thereby kill anything that comes in contact with it.

Unfortunately, I would recommend ripping everything organic out of the tank and replacing it before adding frogs.


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## Mikembo

Personal experience, I have had problems with DAP. I use the GE II Silicone with no problem. afterdark siad it best! rip everything out and start over! it's not fun but if it's killing your plants just imagine what it would do to a frog!


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## Marinarawr

Sorry to be the third bearer of bad news but I'm going to agree that you should empty the plants and substrate from your tank and start over. If you think about the effects on your lungs of breathing silicone fumes then it's not hard to imagine that those same fumes will decimate plants and other living things. Good luck with your revamp!


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## Dragas

Out of curiosity why rip everything out ? Don't we use silicone all the time and just wait for the fumes to dissipate ?


Would the recommendation be because of the DAP brand ?


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## Brian Ferriera

Dragas said:


> Out of curiosity why rip everything out ? Don't we use silicone all the time and just wait for the fumes to dissipate ?
> 
> 
> Would the recommendation be because of the DAP brand ?


Yea we do..you may have to replace the plants but once every thing is cured you should be fine..i always put substraight in first before i silicone..I have even put plants in with fresh silicone and haven't had that type of problem...
Brian


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## dancjoseph

The fumes (Acetic Acid) are only produced during curing, so shouldn't providing adequate air exchange allow the fumes to evaporate and dissipate? 

When curing silicone, you shouldn't have it in an enclosed space (i.e. a closed viv) because the fumes will build up to much higher concentrations. Taking off the glass and directing a fan to the tank should clear up the problems, though you will lose humidity rather quickly...


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## Rick

Dragas said:


> Out of curiosity why rip everything out ? Don't we use silicone all the time and just wait for the fumes to dissipate ?
> 
> 
> Would the recommendation be because of the DAP brand ?


Yeah? Why cant i just wait for the fumes to dissipate? DAP is a food safe silicone once cured and even though some plants are dying they should come back to life once the fumes are gone right? Taking out the substrate and everything and ditching all the plants sounds impractical and very unesscessary mabye its just because i put alot of time and money in it but there has to be other ways like as someone said, removing the hood and puting a fan overhead.

Thanks for all the responses.


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## AFHokie03

I'd agree that ripping everything apart sounds crazy. If your substrate absorbs the fumes, thus making it dangerous how is coco fiber on the background or cork bark any different? If that was the case everything in the tank would be permanently poisoned and thus dangerous. As long as there are no living things in there and you air it out I don't see why there would be a problem.


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## Rick

AFHokie03 said:


> I'd agree that ripping everything apart sounds crazy. If your substrate absorbs the fumes, thus making it dangerous how is coco fiber on the background or cork bark any different? If that was the case everything in the tank would be permanently poisoned and thus dangerous. As long as there are no living things in there and you air it out I don't see why there would be a problem.


But what of the plants?


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## bobberly1

This is odd as I've heard of experienced epiphyte people anchoring all of their tillandsias with silicone. The issue's probably the lack of ventilation, I'd open the door and let a small fan run in it while it's drying if you don't have one built in.


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## Marinarawr

My concern would be that the toxins in these fumes might collect in the moisture in the substrate. I'm going to insert a disclaimer here letting everyone know that the following is my speculative opinion. Since we allow everything on/in the background to dry out entirely (and thus the "curing" process is complete), it's then inert. With a damp substrate the fumes may never fully dissipate. This is why I suggested replacing the substrate (and plants since I don't think that they'll be coming back). I don't think that it's necessary to tear down the background provided that it's allowed to dry before the tank is set up again. This sentence marks the end of my set of opinions and personal feelings .


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## Mikembo

I should edit my previous respons what I was referring to was what afterdark said in *"I would recommend ripping everything organic out of the tank and replacing it before adding frogs" *I wasn't suggesting you have to rip out the background. I belive that no one suggested ripping the background out.


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## Rick

Clearly many people have different ideas on what i should do. I think i should clear it up that the 20h tank didnt have an all glass hood(it had a big gap in the back near the backround about 23 in. long and 2 inches wide) so it was getting some ventalation. Also, the siliconing took place mostly near the top of my backround. So far all i have done was clip off some of the dead leaves on my wandering jew and begonias and remove the hood. Some say this is good enough and yet others...  I really dont want to remove the plants and substrate unless its necessary.


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## Mikembo

You should take the advise from people that have had these kinds of experiences and not from others that are just questioning people's responses. I have had a very simular experience the toxins smell came more from my substrate than the background so I was left to take out the substrate and the dead plants plants let the viv air out properly and everything was fine after that.


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## Rick

What about the layer of hydroton? Do i just scrape off the all the soil and replace it with new stuff or do i have to do something with the hydroton as well? Also if i manage to save the plants will they still be ok with darts?

Thanks,
Rick


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## alluringeli

In my opinion you should rip the tank apart and start over. take you plants out before they completly die on you. vIf they killed your plants imagine what it would do to you frogs. When doing my tank we went to home depot to get GE II Silicone. They told me it was safe and that it was used for tanks. I also had other froggers who recommended to use this. hope you have luck and can save your plants....


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## Ed

If you used 100% silicone like GE silicone I (not II) then the fumes are going to be acetic acid (which is why it smells like strong vinegar). The acetic acid will dissolve into the water and if it is bound up by anything it will be as the acetate which unless in really high concentration is pretty safe (for example calcium acetate is used in some candies). Bacteria will use the acetate as a source of carbon and break it down over time. You really don't have to remove the substrate and then the hydroton if you are willing to simply wait and siphon out and replace the water from the hydroton layer. Once the silicone is done curing this will remove the acetic acid and any acetate dissolved in the water. 

Its possible the reason that you are seeing such a negative response by the plants is because acetic acid is an approved organic herbicide and will kill foliage. If the fumes are strong enough this may be what happened to the plants. 

Ed


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## Ed

alluringeli said:


> In my opinion you should rip the tank apart and start over. take you plants out before they completly die on you. vIf they killed your plants imagine what it would do to you frogs. When doing my tank we went to home depot to get GE II Silicone. They told me it was safe and that it was used for tanks. I also had other froggers who recommended to use this. hope you have luck and can save your plants....


I personally don't use silicone II for animal enclosures as the silicone contains organotins which are problematic. 

Ed


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## bgcabot

Ed said:


> I personally don't use silicone II for animal enclosures as the silicone contains organotins which are problematic.
> 
> Ed


What are organotins? Is there something that you use as an alternative?


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## Marinarawr

Ed said:


> If you used 100% silicone like GE silicone I (not II) then the fumes are going to be acetic acid (which is why it smells like strong vinegar). The acetic acid will dissolve into the water and if it is bound up by anything it will be as the acetate which unless in really high concentration is pretty safe (for example calcium acetate is used in some candies). Bacteria will use the acetate as a source of carbon and break it down over time. You really don't have to remove the substrate and then the hydroton if you are willing to simply wait and siphon out and replace the water from the hydroton layer. Once the silicone is done curing this will remove the acetic acid and any acetate dissolved in the water.
> 
> Its possible the reason that you are seeing such a negative response by the plants is because acetic acid is an approved organic herbicide and will kill foliage. If the fumes are strong enough this may be what happened to the plants.
> 
> Ed



Ed............ I don't know where I'd learn any of this stuff if you weren't around .


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## Rick

Ed said:


> If you used 100% silicone like GE silicone I (not II) then the fumes are going to be acetic acid (which is why it smells like strong vinegar). The acetic acid will dissolve into the water and if it is bound up by anything it will be as the acetate which unless in really high concentration is pretty safe (for example calcium acetate is used in some candies). Bacteria will use the acetate as a source of carbon and break it down over time. You really don't have to remove the substrate and then the hydroton if you are willing to simply wait and siphon out and replace the water from the hydroton layer. Once the silicone is done curing this will remove the acetic acid and any acetate dissolved in the water.
> 
> Its possible the reason that you are seeing such a negative response by the plants is because acetic acid is an approved organic herbicide and will kill foliage. If the fumes are strong enough this may be what happened to the plants.
> 
> Ed


Hello Ed, i have seen your posts on other threads and i always find them interesting and intelegent! Its a privilege to have you post a response  
Also, i have heard its your birthday...so Happy Birthday!

Thanks for the response, i was a second away from tearing up my tank and getting new substrate and replanting. I will siphon out the water like you said.


Thanks again,
Rick


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## Ed

Thanks for the wish.. 

Just remember that siphoning out the water isn't going to help much until the silicone finishes curing. Increasing air flow and possibly the temperature a little will help with the curing. 

Ed


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