# Wild? Frog ID



## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Hi all,

I was forwarded this picture by a friend asking for an ID. It was from an open-air aviary in NJ. I'm not familiar with their natives, nor do I know if it was just a stowaway of sorts. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Pat


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

A weird looking Rana catesbeiana would be my guess. The post orbital ridge rounding the tympanum is all i recognize, though.


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Kind of what I was I was thinking as well, but man, not like any bullfrog I've ever seen!


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## Bizzely (Oct 29, 2011)

not totally certain but maybe a crawfish frog or river frog? Thated be my guess. only problem is their range doesnt extent into nj


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Bizzely said:


> not totally certain but maybe a crawfish frog or river frog? Thated be my guess. only problem is their range doesnt extent into nj



Aside from location, the tympanum is smaller, and lower on the Rana areolata (crawfish frog). The Rana heckscheri (river frog) I would be more inclined to agree with however, and as you said, they aren't known from New Jersey. That, of course, does not rule out a hitch hiker. 

I'm still leaning towards an obese, and anomalous Rana catesbeiana


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## tarbo96 (Jan 12, 2006)

Looks like a spadefoot toad


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## tarbo96 (Jan 12, 2006)

How does this look?


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## joshbaker14t (Jun 11, 2012)

it doesnt look like a toad at all, imo


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

tarbo96 said:


> Looks like a spadefoot toad


My first inclination was toward a Spadefoot. I am not too sure about locality variability, but the tympanum is not like our frog. Our mystery frog has a larger tympanum that is partially circled by the post orbital ridge. I am far from an expert, but I have seen a fair share of Scaphiopus holbrookii, and don't remember seeing the same structure.


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

tarbo96 said:


> How does this look?


Unfortunately, spadefoot was my first guess when I could only see a tiny phone pic. But upon seeing the larger image, the dead giveaway is the vertical pupil. As far as I know, all the spadefoots are vertical, our mystery frog is horizontal.

-Pat


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

patm said:


> Unfortunately, spadefoot was my first guess when I could only see a tiny phone pic. But upon seeing the larger image, the dead giveaway is the vertical pupil. As far as I know, all the spadefoots are vertical, our mystery frog is horizontal.
> 
> -Pat


Good eye, Pat!


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## tarbo96 (Jan 12, 2006)

Dont see much else even close


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Hybrid......the oh so dirty hybrid


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Hybrid......the oh so dirty hybrid


They are pure evil aren't they, full of problems and never good. Mutt, that's what the frog is! 

A hybrid would solve all this id trouble wouldn't it?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Variegation isn't unknown in bullfrog patterns and small dispersed dots are also commonly seen in the patterns. If one considers that the frog maybe showing an abnormal background pattern to stress or even nighttime, we can account for the coloration of the frog. 

The issue is really with the abnormal bone structure and posture. If that is the frog's typical posture, I would consider that it either had or currently is suffering from MBD. A frog that had a calcium issue can present with abnormal development of the bone structure... Look at the front legs of the frog and consider how they should look in a healthy wild frog (for example see HerpNet.net - Iowa Reptiles and Amphibians - Bullfrog - Rana catesbeiana and note the aberrant pattern further down the page). It is possible that if the facility is accessed by the public, that it was a captive and turned loose there by a member of the public who no longer wanted to keep it.. (I've seen and heard tales of this at zoos and aquariums). 

Some comments 

Ed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Deformation due to excessive exposure to greenhouse chemicals?


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Deformation due to excessive exposure to greenhouse chemicals?


OMG

Oh, and Ed I think your theory on a released pet is highly likely. I have seen way too many pet frogs released at the nature center I volunteer at. I even found a ball python on the trail once, the ironic part is the name of the center is Snake Lake.

Good luck on the id, 
John


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Ed said:


> It is possible that if the facility is accessed by the public, that it was a captive and turned loose there by a member of the public who no longer wanted to keep it.. (I've seen and heard tales of this at zoos and aquariums).
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


I'd absolutely consider the possibility this is an exotic/non-native. Unfortunately, that makes ID'ing that much more difficult, haha. 

The one other thing I'm looking at, that could just be an optical illusion from the picture, is that the snout on this frog looks shorter/less pointed than any catesbeiana I've seen in person/in pictures. 

-Pat


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

patm said:


> I'd absolutely consider the possibility this is an exotic/non-native. Unfortunately, that makes ID'ing that much more difficult, haha.


I don't think it is a non-native or exotic to the local (RI). I think it is a bullfrog that has some issues. 

Some comments 

Ed


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