# Other animals in viv?



## Guest (Dec 5, 2004)

I've read people keeping certain geckos in their vivariums along with darts. Is there any other animals that can be kept alongside darts? Newts, Salamanders, other types of frogs... assuming of course the vivarium was designed to incorporate their both animals needs.

Just curious! :wink:


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## TimsViv (Feb 16, 2004)

I have kept anoles with my tincs and azureus and never had any problems. 

I think you could, also, house stump tail chameleons with some of the larger size frogs.

If you do a search, you can find some posts on some day geckos that will do well, also.

Tim


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2004)

Finally!, someone els who wants to know the same question. Will Leaf chamelions do ok with auratus and tinctorius?


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Mixing animals is frowned upon by many on the board...do a search and you'll see some of the responses others have received.

Be especially careful if you're thinking of mixing amphibians, most of them produce some sort of toxin on their skin, and there are different toxins, so if you put the wrong combination of amphibians in a tank, neither would do very well, because they would both (eventually) come into contact with the others toxins.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2004)

> Mixing animals is frowned upon by many on the board


That is the idea of most here on the board but not everyone has space or $$$ to set up tanks for every single species. I think the correct question would be it is harmful to the frogs to add another animal. I don't think so it it's a big enough or tall enough tank. Some here have even posted that they have larger ground darts with thumbnails. Some have even posted pics of their day geckos in with the frogs. 

That's what I plan on doing with my 37H. I have 5 terribilis and they stay always on the ground. Kinda boring to me to not have the other 24 inches of space occupied. So when I get my imitators they're going in with my terribilis. When I dump in FF's they always start climbing to the top anyway and the terribilis always miss those that get up the glass. This way the imitators can take care of the climbers.

I think the main thing to consider if adding something other than darts in the same tank, is to quarrantine and treat that animal so as not to introduce any parasites to the frogs. Who posted the pic of the day gecko in with his darts? Everything went well in that tank. Why not utilize all avaiable space in our tanks?


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## dvknight (Feb 20, 2004)

I keep my imitators with Suriname cobalts in a 90 gallon. I would strongly recommend against keeping imitators with terribilis. I have seen these frogs tackle crickets that compare in length to an imitator. My cobalts, however, will barely eat pinheads. 

Just my opinion.

David


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2004)

In a few months after I have my 65 gallon setup I am planning on moving my cobalts into that, hopefully by then I will have some offspring from my vents and I plan on keeping whatever offspring I have in there with the tincs. I was kind of worried/wondering about the cobalts eating the smaller vents, but I've noticed yeah they don't eat young crickets even. 

I just know that if I do get this set up, any guests are going to be like "are those babies?" lol. I think a 75 with retics and auratus would be a cool tank. 
Though I think the only time I'd put thumbnails in with larger frogs would be if they were offspring from my frogs. Just the thought of giving my frogs a 50-150 dollar snack seems frightening.

-Tad


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## Moe (Feb 15, 2004)

Jared J said:


> > Mixing animals is frowned upon by many on the board
> 
> 
> That is the idea of most here on the board but not everyone has space or $$$ to set up tanks for every single species.


To me, thats one of the worst reasons to mix. For those who cant afford setting up different tanks, its hard to believe they can afford the different species anyway.

That said, ive kept a leaf tail cham with my azureus before with no problems from what i can see. 

M.N


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## TimsViv (Feb 16, 2004)

One thing to keep in mind if you do mix frogs and/or species is to have a spare tank set up and ready to house one of the species should there be any issues. Keep a watchful eye on the tank and at the first sign of trouble or stress remove any animals necessary to stabilize the environment.

Tim


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## TimsViv (Feb 16, 2004)

Just to be clear, I am not promoting mixing of frogs and/or species, but do think it can be done without detriment to the animals if care and common sense are used. (Yea, yea, I know Common Sense is an Oxy Moron these days)

Tim


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2004)

its not that i dont have the money, its that im not allowed to have more that 2 tanks


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Most of the species you _could_ (emphasis on that) keep together require a fair amount of experience. These would be things like WC brookesia, or small species of phelsuma. Another issue is that you would have to provide a basking spot, which could kill the frogs. Also, things like phelsuma require a different temperature than frogs. 

Jordan


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Here's some more info:



Spar said:


> People have kept Red-Eyed Treefrogs with Darts, and some species of Geckos. Dont do Cham's, or Toads (as some toads still carry toxins without the normal food source). Make sure that the size differences are comparable. Dont buy a large Red-Eye with a thumbnail dart. Just play that smart and you should be fine. Red-Eyes are also better since they are nocturnal and will stay away from eachother during their respective hours. I am not totally sure on the species of Geckos, but I think the smaller Hawaiin Day Geckos. Just be careful with this regardless of your choices, as "accidents" always happen.





Schism said:


> Most of your leaf chameleons are wild caught. That equals parasites, some of those may be from madagascar, your frogs South America. Foreign parasites can be extremely lethal to such a small animal. But OK your past parasites, cleaned em out. Now chameleons all have nails, and claws. Your larger brookesia are plenty enough strong to grab a hold of the back of a frog and do some major damage.
> Another reason, your larger brookesia will require more food than you can give via flies plus chameleons really need a lot of variety to have a good diet. Crickets are bad news especially when hungry and bigger than your frogs can eat.
> Once again, poison arrow frogs well have likely something in their succretions that aren't good to eat. Have you seen a chameleon eat? They have bad aim. Frogs juice although not as poisonous as it could be, will not be good for a small lizard.....
> Enough reasons?
> Ohhh yeah, a non leaf chameleon, needs a lot of ventelation, a completely different style of setup... I used to breed many types of chameleons, they are not compatable long term.


I was also thinking about housing different animals in the same tank, so i could use all the room in my tank (mainly the canopy area). I'm not sure what i'll be doing yet, but probably either thumbs and non-thumbs, or non-thumbs and tree frogs. We'll see....


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2004)

*d*

I think it would be an injustice to include animals from a different part of the world in one tank. 

Its our JOB as keepers of these jewels to do the best we can for their care. Why introduce animals from different parts of the world in one tank? You think its pretty? Have you thought about what the little animals would want? IS it possible that the frogs would be scared to death of some larger anole or something like that? Do you think stress plays a part in this? 

Someone has a signature that reads "With respect from the keeper to the kept". I'm sorry I dont remember your name, but I remember that. These arent $50 party favors to keep alive, they are beings that require respect to keep them successfully. 

Sure, you can do whatever you want with the animals in your house. Period. But in doing so, I would call on everyone to be responsible and not just plain stupid. Sure, I can keep my dart frogs with my caimen. I dont think he'll eat them. Then again. Maybe. I have seen anoles and day geckos tackle pinkies, and most pinkies I've seen are about the size of a dart frog. EVen if they dont get eaten, the lizard is going to spit it out with teeth marks. GREAT!

So you mix them, not ever seeing any problems before, then you come in one day and the gecko is dead with a dying frog slouched in the corner of the tank with teeth marks in his side. What do you do then? Put him out of his misery? You thought you were smart, but ended up killing something that you OBVIOUSLY dont have the intelligence to keep. 

I would be willing to bet that most of the successful "mixing" of frogs and others were short term. Maybe a year or less. Success, to me, is long term health of the frog. 

We all make mistakes occasionally with these wonderful little frogs and they die, but LEARN FROM OTHERS MISTAKES! Most dont mix because there are problems. Period. You think you can break the mold and keep them, fine, but I guarantee you there are people that would love to take that little frog off your hands you are putting in perils direct path. 

Now, frogs from the same part of the world in one tank, thats a different story. I"M not doing it, but that is my decision. I think that is more rational than some of these other ideas, but still something I'm not going to do. 

Ok. And for those that know me, I'm famous for saying exactly what I think. 

Just my 2 cents. or 3. or 25. No offense meant to anyone keeping multiple species, but I think its a bad idea. I dont have but a year and a half experience with dart frogs, but I've kept MANY others including owning a pet store. MOST animals do badly when you mix them.


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## Moe (Feb 15, 2004)

Our goal shouldn't be focused on our frogs to merely survive the stress from mixing, but rather thrive. 

M.N


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2004)

Yea, I was just curious to see if it could be done, and still have both animals in optimal living conditions. 

Looks like I'll be sticking to single species though.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2004)

*not a reptile or amphibian*

ive thought about this subject long and hard. i definately wont keep another amphibian with my darts (for reasons stated eairlier in the thread), and its hard to find a reptile that eats the same size food. i have a breedig pair of phelsuma laticauda, the female is barely over four inches and she nabs crickets that are as big as froglets or thumbnails (~3/4"). i would strongly reccomend NOT to use small day geckos, unless with terribilis or other large frog, that can handle 1/2" crickets or so. i feed my P. laticaudas flies every week or so. they clean out 100 or so in a matter of minutes and have room for more. ive actually fed them entire cultures (when i had them over populating) and they ate them all in a matter of minutes. 

my question here is spiders, or other insect eating bugs. i saw a pic in the gallery of a spider, but do you intentionally place a spider in with your darts? 

Landon


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

yeah, i saw that too...kinda scary if you ask me...

I can imagine waking up one morning and seeing a poor dart being spun into a cocoon... :shock:


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