# Moss Experiments...



## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

My family's company has been buying and selling moss (wholesale only) for over 30 years... We've been playing with keeping LIVE moss now for awhile. We've always sold spanish and sheet moss - never before pillow moss.

Pillow moss is generally CRAZY expensive. In CT - it grows pretty commonly. Issue is - it's ALWAYS infested with bugs. So! We started experimenting with ways to kill the little buggies and any residual bacterial waste (bird/insect poo) inside...

We experimented with a 20% bleach solution, a 50% solution, and a few commercial pesticides - each with varied times in the solution.

Findings:
50% bleach WORKS but quickly removes the "bright green" color and replaces it with a much duller shade. Generally we had the moss strips in the solution for 20 secs... 1 week later - the moss is alive (still a bit dull) and the bugs are all gone.

Commercial pesticides work great for FLORISTS lol - obviously not what the vivarium crowd would be too happy about...

The 20% solution is perfect imo. We soaked each strip for 20-30 secs scrubbing gently... Then removed and rinsed in a big tub for another 2 minutes with warm R/O water. A week later - no bugs - obviously no bad bacteria - and the moss is vibrant.  Nearly perfect green thru and thru - and it's growing well under a shaded section of the mercury bulbs. 

...just figured that'd be good info for anyone in the Northeast trying to save a buck with pillow moss...

As for sheet moss - That stuff you won't just find "growin' around" so stick to the good suppliers!!! 

-Mike Jr @ New England Wholesale


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Pics... 









^^^ Both








^^^ 20%


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Sorry to bump an old thread... The 50% solution proved to be too strong (as shown in the pics)... But after a few weeks the color never truly improved to 100% so I wouldn't ever suggest 50% solution.

Looking back - bleach is bleach... The concentration probably didn't even need to be 20% to kill everything in the moss... If I did this again - I'd use a 15% bleach solution or so. 

...better late than never.


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

I'd love to see this as a sticky. I'm going to try this with a little less bleach than you'd originally suggested and rinse well. Thanks for doing this experiment Meik .


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Before bleaching, did you remove any or all of the soil from the rhizomes? Excess soil and organic material can act as a buffer, reducing the effectiveness of the bleach.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I've used this moss in the past without treating. Bugs are well....food 

But I realize now in this day and age of SARS, Swine Flu and Chytrid, a little bleach on your hands cant hurt 

Usually 10% bleach is what is recommended for sterilization. How long you dip moss is anyones guess. 

Did you see any critters over time emerge from the nooks and crannies?

How long would you/we leave moss outside a viv after treatment b/f allowing frogs to be in contact? [Since we arent allowing simple evaporative drying to occur, and rinsing is likely to be incomplete]

I'll also comment though that I've all but given up on moss in PDF vivs. Great for display tanks, but in a breeder situation, if one is really looking at PDF health and success.....I'd rec leaf litter 100% of the floor/base. Jst my 2 cents.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

so out of curiosity at just how effective bleaching is, i did a little experiment tonight. i took a slug out of a viv, and put it in a 10% bleach solution. within 30 seconds it was floating around dead.
I'm going to stop soaking new cuttings in solution for 10 minutes, and shorten the time to more like 2 minutes.


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## iljjlm (Mar 5, 2006)

From what I can find. Sanitizing is only takes 2 minutes (for nonporous food containers) and to disinfect anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes. Length of time also change on what you want to kill.

Bleach Public Health

Cleaning, Disinfecting and Sterilizing (Reptiles)

Dave


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Dane said:


> Before bleaching, did you remove any or all of the soil from the rhizomes? Excess soil and organic material can act as a buffer, reducing the effectiveness of the bleach.


Yep! The moss was growing on wood - I scraped the moss off the wood with a sheetrock spatula thing.

I never actually ended up using that moss as it's temperate, I believe...

Regardless - The info added since my last post really makes for some good info.

I'm curious - although soil nematodes really aren't a bad thing in vivariums - I wonder how long it takes to kill those if they are soaked in a bleach solution. I've tried to get rid of those in bromeliads from lowes/home depot with no luck. 

edit: Last night I added some of my company's moss to my new 20G viv... Before adding it I sanitized it in 20% bleach for 2 mins to try and kill off any nematodes. I'm sure from past experience it won't kill 'em - but at least I tried.  Any info on "de-nematoding" stuff would be really good... I don't even thing Co2 bombing 'em would work.


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

There are a lot of things which are resistant to bleach. For instance, nematode eggs are resistant to bleach.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

mark would microwaves kill nematode eggs?


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm not sure, but I would imaging it would kill your moss.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

basshummper said:


> mark would microwaves kill nematode eggs?


Microwaves kill plants very very very efficiently. 

As far as dirt goes tho... That'd be the way to do it.


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## tinctorus (Apr 24, 2009)

Lol microwaves cook from the inside out using the moisture inside whatever is being cooked to do the work
think about what it would do to a plant that is full of liquid lol you'd end up with a smelly mess in your kitchen


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

tinctorus said:


> Lol microwaves cook from the inside out using the moisture inside whatever is being cooked to do the work
> think about what it would do to a plant that is full of liquid lol you'd end up with a smelly mess in your kitchen


not trying to hijack the thread here but if im not mistaken microwave ovens cook food not by heating the water from the inside out but by using specific wavelengths of energy to excite molecules creating friction that creates heat and cooks the food or other item.

not suitable for plants as mentioned earlier. there are a number of posts regarding the sterilization (if you could call it that) of mosses. most common is bleach or other chemical method. however nematodes (as far as i know) will not do any damage to your enclosure. i have tons of white nematodes that come and go and have never had a problem.

i just noticed some of this was discussed already, however i'll add my 2 cents (i personally use ; a very diluted form of; potassium permanganate) which (although is regarded as less efficient than bleach at killing a lot of creepy crawlys) hasn't ever turned moss ive disinfected in it a different color.

james


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## tinctorus (Apr 24, 2009)

james67 said:


> not trying to hijack the thread here but if im not mistaken microwave ovens cook food not by heating the water from the inside out but by using specific wavelengths of energy to excite molecules creating friction that creates heat and cooks the food or other item.
> 
> not suitable for plants as mentioned earlier. there are a number of posts regarding the sterilization (if you could call it that) of mosses. most common is bleach or other chemical method. however nematodes (as far as i know) will not do any damage to your enclosure. i have tons of white nematodes that come and go and have never had a problem.
> 
> ...


Yes in a way we were both right because it uses the wavelengths to excite the water molecules thereby causing heat

How do microwave ovens cook food?


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## tinctorus (Apr 24, 2009)

Ok I got my fixtures today and am making the canopy today The one trouble im having is finding the correct compact flourescents at home depot
They have 3000 and 5000k bulbs which were essentially "bright white" and "cool white"
will those color temps be ok for plants or does someone know where to get 3500 and 6500 k bulbs online


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

You prob really want to find a 6500K... I bought a 10 pack 2 days ago at lowes.


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

tinctorus said:


> Ok I got my fixtures today and am making the canopy today The one trouble im having is finding the correct compact flourescents at home depot
> They have 3000 and 5000k bulbs which were essentially "bright white" and "cool white"
> will those color temps be ok for plants or does someone know where to get 3500 and 6500 k bulbs online


You're starting to hijack this thread a little here. Start a new thread and you'll get many more responses.

-Matt


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## tinctorus (Apr 24, 2009)

McBobs said:


> You're starting to hijack this thread a little here. Start a new thread and you'll get many more responses.
> 
> -Matt


woops I just realized I posted the question about my bulbs in the wrong thread lol I had two windows open I guess I clicked the wrong one


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

Way to go, Slick!  

-Matt


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Old thread bump 

Do you think this method will work on live sphagnum moss?


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Wow what a blast from the past! It's amazing what can happen in 5 years.  This thread was one of the 1'st times I began testing out different moss types in terrariums... Wow.

Yes the 5% solution does work with Sphag, although it does leech some of the color slightly.  Getting it to rinse out is tricky, though since it holds moisture so well.


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

Hmm tried a double strength solution of declorinator and soak for several minutes then rinse in RO water?


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## Froggle (Jul 28, 2014)

Going to bump this thread with a newbie question - I figured newbies reading the thread would benefit from this info being in there! 

Bleach comes in different strengths, I assume you're using regular household bleach which I think is 5.25 percent sodium hypochlorite?

Thanks!


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## Woji37 (Jul 19, 2020)

I assume this procedures would work with other plants as well.
My question is how long do you keep the moss outside before putting it in the vivarium and/or how would you store it?
My vivarium isn’t ready yet.


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