# Zoomie's twin Exo Terra 18x18x24 builds



## Zoomie

Good afternoon everyone!

Since I have have quietly been stalking all of you (your posts actually) I think it only fair that I offer an introduction. 

My name is John and I live in Kingsport, TN with my lovely wife and Black Lab/furry son. I am mature. Mature means that I have moved from doing tequila shots to sipping single malts, unless someone has a nice anejo stashed.

While I have no experience with PDF's and therefore still smell like a brand new tube of silicone, I have been reading for weeks learning everything I can. I thank all of you for working diligently to help those of us that are attempting to provide a safe and comfortable environment for these incredible creatures.

After designing a 150 gallon salt water reef and successfully growing some pretty rare corals, I am shocked that I find tank design so intimidating. I hope that with everyone's continued help, I can skip the felonies and scrape by with a few traffic violtions during the build process. Living in a small town and not having a mentor makes this somewhat of a challenge.

So where is my head at right now? After many reefing scars, I have learned that I should stick with a hearty species until I prove to myself that I am ready for something else. Because of this, 2-3 Leucs get the nod.

I also recognized immediately that a single species would not cut it, even as a beginner. With that realization, I decided to grab 2 Exo Terra 18x18x24 kits. I will knock out some of the beginning steps for the second but will not design until I settle on a second couple.

I have decided to run a false bottom with an inch or two of media. I will make a feeble attempt at doing a GS background with some ledges. No water features are planned but I do intend to run a Mist King. A nice varietiy of plants. Broms are a must have, along with some mosses, rounded out with leaf litter for safety, security, hunting, and something to munch for seeded bugs.

Once the first tank comes together, we'll see how temp and humidity shake out, and toss in the springs and isos. This should give them time to find hiding spots before the Leucs launch their reign of terror.

I am still doing some research on Leuc. habitat. Their range is so broad that I have had a very difficult time idenifying and understanding what their RL world looks like. 

With that, he're is what we ave to work with thus far:

Homes:










Some building materials. That's silcone in black and brown:










Some wood. There's a few nice pieces at least.










Thanks for looking. I would be grateful for any suggestions, commentary, or slaps in the melon. 

Finally, thanks again for all of you that share both your successes and your failures. There is no way I would attempt to undertake this without the info here. Any trained monkey can attempt to keep PDF's as they live in perpetual misery. So many of you here build happy homes!


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## Vinnner

Props on a good post! You seem to have your head on straight. Buying two tanks was a good choice because after my first i saw myself buying two and three at a time! Also I think it is wise to opt out of the water feature. My first tank had it and it seemed a waste. Use all the land you can get for microfauna. 

Just keep up the searching on info and you will be fine.

Just good to see a new member with a decent plan of attack these days.

Best of luck

Vinnner


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## Zoomie

Thank you Vinner. I hope I am on the right track. 

Thus far, I have managed to answer most of my questions by reading and searching. I have avoided a few of the board's favorites....

Mixed tank ? NO !

16 PDF's in a 5 gallon ? Um.....NO !

Newby wants to keep D. Silverstonei ? Still NO !

I have a read many of the frog forums. I feel like froggers and coral guys are kindred spirits, from a hobbyist's perspective.

I used to chase tougher corals. You had to figure out who had them as they weren't usually for sale. Then you got in line and schmoozed with the owner. You then had to prove that your tank was spotless and that you were more than capable of a successful growout. More than once, I have had people come to my house and check out my entire system. I have even had to provide water tests! 

The above is said with great warmth and humor. I love groups that are both passionate and protective. It raises the bar in quality care and that is very cool thing!


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## GRIMM

Nice to see a new member who isnt trolling and has their act together! A welcome addition to the forum for sure.

It seems like you have everything figured out so far. Only thing I would suggest is mocking up a few layouts using the materials you have. Im not a huge fan of mopani but hopefully you can figure out a pleasing layout with it. Given your reefing background, I think you can pull it off


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## WONTON SALLY

i have done the saltwater tanks my self for about 12+years got out of that hobby and moved to R/C vechicles. over the last 2 years i have watched my cousin and his PDF's and they are soooooo much easier than the saltwater tanks,,,never again. anyways welcome to the hobby as i am new myself good luck and post more pics!!!!!


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## GregF

Nice. That's my exact setup. 

If this is your first go at it, may I suggest that you make "panels" for the back and/or sides by spraying the GS on some pre-cut eggcrate? That way if you hate it, you can start over.

Personally, I like the little mesh hydroponics baskets for planting, but that's just me.

Greg


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## Zoomie

*Grimm*, thank you !

I will do mock ups for sure. 

Design is what really terrifies me. I know that environment outweighs aestetics. I also know when I see something that holds interest, and still fits the bill. Praying that I find inspiration here. 

Friends don't let friends build poor environments, correct ? 

I ran off and read 45+threads on Mopani. I couldn't find any negatives other than potential mold issues just like Grapewood. It is extremely dense. Because of this, I'm not sure I'm comfortable embedding in the GS. If it comes loose and falls, it will surely drive the false bottom right through the glass bottom. If I missed something, please let me know asap.

*Hello Sally!* I just read your build thread today. THanks so much for posting it.

So you have reef scars too? I loved my tank. It took a long time but when I got it right, I was blessed with some awesome growth on corals. I hate having to take it down when we moved. Further, there was no way for me to safely re-collect all of the stuff I had. So I sold a bunch of it and gave away all the best stuff to those that had helped me learn and grow.

Interesting that you do R/C. I did as well. We must be kindred spirits. Raced gas trucks and 4wd electric buggies. I still have my little magnet trophies in the future frog room!

I Promise I will post pics. The only thing I have gotten accomplished today is cutting out and fitting the false bottom. I had to clean up the house a bit. My wife is out of town and if she the state of the place, she would surely hop on her broom and fly around a bit! 

*Greg*, interesting that you brought up using the light stuff as a frame for the background. I read D3monic's early build thread and thought it was a great idea. I couldn't figure out if he ran the frame to set in the bottom of the tank, and if he siliconed it in place. If I can figure it out, It makes perfect sense, considering this is my very first attempt.

I still have some reading to do on the cups. I can't figure out how they drain. Seems that they would trap water which would evetually become fetid. WOOHOO ! I actually got to use the word FETID in a sentence. 

Sorry to others for being O/T. People are introducing themselves and I feel it important to gab a bit. I will tone it down and stay and topic.


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## GRIMM

Zoomie said:


> *Grimm*, thank you !
> 
> I will do mock ups for sure.
> 
> Design is what really terrifies me. I know that environment outweighs aestetics. I also know when I see something that holds interest, and still fits the bill. Praying that I find inspiration here.
> 
> Friends don't let friends build poor environments, correct ?
> 
> I ran off and read 45+threads on Mopani. I couldn't find any negatives other than potential mold issues just like Grapewood. It is extremely dense. Because of this, I'm not sure I'm comfortable embedding in the GS. If it comes loose and falls, it will surely drive the false bottom right through the glass bottom. If I missed something, please let me know asap.


No problem man. No there is absolutely nothing wrong with mopani. I actually have a piece of it in one of my tanks. It acts as a small stream, but every square inch of it is now covered with moss. Im just not a fan of the shape of it. It isnt usually evil or sharp enough loking for my tastes haha.

Feel free to post pics of different configurations before starting with the foam. I'll definitely try and be a hard a$$ judge for your sake


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## Zoomie

I really appreciate it!

Just got done watching your Twins vid and the planting vid. Extremely informative. I loved the gravel around the perimeter of the FB. A super clean look.

I'll start with mock ups tomorrow and post with pics.

Thanks again !


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## WONTON SALLY

i was told that you could either mist the tank with a spray bottle or buy a mist king setup and have it done for you manually, did i need too--no it just looked cool and was easier. harder is not always better and simple is not always easier as you know with the s/w tanks. i have a veteran source for PDF's in the family. i like the setup builds on here from us newbies to see what other are doing, going through. keep it coming.


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## majorinsano

Hi Zoomie, I personally like the look of the mopani wood in the backgrounds and found that if I Gorilla Glue it to the back of the tank before the GS then it never puts any stress on the background. 

Also for your drainage in the plant cups, (I personally like the peat cups) I wait till the GS is almost set then use a bamboo skewer to bore out a drain hole all the way to the bottom.

Good luck.


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## paintballislife

Zoomie, 

Welcome to the board. Some words of advice on mounting wood to the sides. Wipe the area with alcohol, i marked mine wiht marker to make sure it was where i wanted it. Then using gorilla glue i glued the pieces and held them in place. 

The mopani slide down some in my clay and stopped above my cork waterslide. My grapevine actually expanded 1/2" forward from moisture. Knowing this now,

I would do Gorilla glue, silicon then GS.

this is mine
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/Paintballislife/IMG_0695.jpg


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## Zoomie

Thanks everyone.

I was up until 1AM fiddling and attempting to put something together. Waaaay past my bedtime. I just couldn't bring anything together. I felt like I was trying to construct a fighter jet with 2 by 4's. For all of you artistic folks.....double dang you all for doing things like this with relative ease.

I came home tonight and staired at it, turning pieces of wood over and over while drool dribbled down my chin. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. I could have asked my dog to fetch up the wood and drop them in order to come up with something better. 

I believe that I am unhappy with the wood shapes that I have thus far. Trying to create some depth and interest while retaining signicant floor space for leaf litter. GRRRRR !

I will chase some down on the net and in the mean time, work on setting up the difuser backing and sides. This way, if I dont like it, I can yank it out and call a do-over.

On a more positive note, our little one-horse town's Walmart did have some 13W 6500K daylight bulbs. Not sure if they will be able to drive plant growth, however, I didn't want to grab something that warmed the tank too much.


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## ZookeeperDoug

Zoomie,

Don't get discouraged. Here are some things that I've learned over the years.

Treat your initial hardscape as preping the canvas. You plants will be your palet. In 6th months your plants will have filled in and the wood will be your accent.

Resist the urge to use every piece you purchased. Sometimes you've got it laying there and there is this sense that you have to incorporate everything, you don't! When you're looking at your product trying to fit in that last peice, just leave it out.

Put on your favorite music. This was my only requirement of my clients when I was in the reef hobby. When I come in to lay out your tank, Im gonna crank it up, get out of the way, leave me alone until I'm done.

Look to other artists for inspiration. There are some awsome vivs on here that you can get some great ideas from.

Don't neglect the chemical entertainment. I personally don't partake, however; a cold one or a stiff one for me work wonders to take the edge off sometimes.

Walk away. Sometimes when you're getting frustrated, just abandon the project for a day or two. You're not going to come up with the tank of your life if you're angry.

Scape your tank in the morning! Burning the midnight oil might work for some, never did for me. My tanks I always got a good nights rest, had nothing else to focus on that day, and just went to work.

HAVE FUN WITH IT!

I look back at some of the tanks I did and sometimes think wow, that was innovative or Dooooooooooooooooood, what were you thinking. There is just a learning process and experience. You'll look back at your first vivs and prolly think the same.

Good luck and have fun.


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## Zoomie

Thanks for the words of inpsiration Doug.

I went through this with my reef tank as well. Had to pull hundreds of pounds of live apart a number of times. It was horrible! lol

I am trying to think about too many things at once. Trying to protect floor splace for the frogs, create usable space at different heights, and not have it look like the tank is laid out like a garage sale are all issues.

Last night I started saving of pics of vivs that were well done. I'll try to run down some more wood today. I have nothing going on this weekend and Mrs Zoomie is out of town.


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## GRIMM

Having trouble with the Mopani layout eh 

One of my favorite vivs from a few years back used a lot of mopani I believe. I'll track it down and post a picture of it here for you.

I also find that using pots in backgrounds doesnt end up looking the best. Most epiphitic plants dont really need substrate, and mounted terrestrails just look out of place sometimes. In my opinion the only member on here that has used pots with very visually appealing results is Stu&Shaz. Here is his huge build thread.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/61018-da-dart-room-slow-thread.html


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## Zoomie

GRIMM said:


> Having trouble with the Mopani layout eh
> 
> One of my favorite vivs from a few years back used a lot of mopani I believe. I'll track it down and post a picture of it here for you.
> 
> I also find that using pots in backgrounds doesnt end up looking the best. Most epiphitic plants dont really need substrate, and mounted terrestrails just look out of place sometimes. In my opinion the only member on here that has used pots with very visually appealing results is Stu&Shaz. Here is his huge build thread.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/61018-da-dart-room-slow-thread.html


Grimm, I'd be all over you like hair on a gorilla to make me a background if shipping from Canada wasn't so insane.

I saw that thread. The rack is awesome and he did do a fantastic job.

I like your background design for the mirror tank and it's mate.You kept it simple, using vines or vine type plants to soften the lines and build height interest. 

I just need to pull the trigger and see what happens. Ugly I can live with for my first shot. Not being optimized for the Leucs will send me in to a tail spin.

Off to Home Depot...yet again.


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## Zoomie

Well, enough whining. I took ZookeeperDoug's advice. I grabbed an adult beverage. It's a week night so I had to survive the entire ordeal with three mere sips of Oban. It was like being on emergency rations. 










Doug also recommended some music. Hmmmmmm. I went through my tunes. A little jazz with Patricia Barber maybe? That wouldn't work. I needed some groove. Some funk maybe. Ooh Larry Graham. Well that got me going until I pulled a hamstring trying to "bust a move!" This wasn't working. And then it hit me! Rage Against The Machine. After all, I was declaring war on my lack of creativity.
Back in the day, I'd crank up RATM. It got me all fired up. ANARCHY! Now after I listen to it, I just get mildly irritated and deface some junk mail.

I finally embraced the baptism by fire theory and just went to work. Cut the background and 6 inch side panels:










I then cut the false bottom. I was watching on of Grimm's vids and loved that he cut his false bottom short in order to drop some gravel in around it.

Test fitting using the first thing I could get my hands on to give me some height:



















The cups were a little too low, so I adjusted accordingly:










Cut it all out, zip tied it together, and that's when it all wet the bed. No space at the front glass. GRRR! Never headbang to Killing In The Name Of....when counting squares:










Cut the front off and then put it all back together. Tada ! I have 3/4" as Grimm recommended.:










Added some painters tape for the drop dead bottom of where I want the foam:










I couldn't help but to stop and briefly admired my mess. When your wife is out of town, you get to do this to the house. I'll blame it on the music:










Chucked some wood in just to get a feel for things. I am unsure if I am going to create something to house the drain access in the back corner, or, install it up front and camo it for easy access.



















I need something tall in the back left corner, although I hesitate to suck up additional floor space. I can always compensate with plants. 

Finally, I have no idea what to do with the back wall yet. Still mulling that over. 

A huge thanks to Grimm and ZKDoug for just telling me to get busy and sort out the dead bodies later. It inspired me to get moving.

Off to bed since I have to be up at zero dark thirty. Back on this thing tomorrow.


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## Darts15

Haha nniiiccceee. You've got the idea. Just keep it up!


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## GRIMM

Darts15 said:


> Haha nniiiccceee. You've got the idea. Just keep it up!


^^^ Thats what she said! lol

Looking like a good start. Im not sure what that drain thing is right now, but I would suggest either moving it up front and covering it with a camouflaged cap, or just run a long syphoning tube out the top corner through one of the wire slots. I vote moving it up front and cap it. Plus then all you need to do is cover it with a few leaves and it is hidden.


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## Zoomie

GRIMM said:


> ^^^ Thats what she said! lol
> 
> Looking like a good start. Im not sure what that drain thing is right now, but I would suggest either moving it up front and covering it with a camouflaged cap, or just run a long syphoning tube out the top corner through one of the wire slots. I vote moving it up front and cap it. Plus then all you need to do is cover it with a few leaves and it is hidden.


I just set it there. Originally I considered ditching behind something in the back but that seems like a whole lot of over-engineering and garner's no particular benefit. 

Up front is surely the better call. I'll cut down to soil line and bury in leaves.


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## Zoomie

After the fiasco this afternoon in re-caulking the tank (oogly), I am going to hook a right. Going to modify the original backing the came with the tank and then cover. This way I'll get some practice in and background can be easily removed for a re-do.

Here is cool thing number two you can do when your wife is out of town. The Lasagna may be a little earthy go-forward.


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## ZookeeperDoug

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww yea. My wife is never outta town. I do it anyway and just LOL at the rage.

"Babe. Why are magnolia leaves boiling on the stove?"

Glad you took some of my advice. Rage was good for me too when I was younger. I just surf some random Pandora radio channels now and crank whatever sounds good.

Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see the end result.


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## Zoomie

It was a big help, Doug. You and Grimm got me moving and for that I will be forever your debt.

OK, so in my latest hair-brained scheme, I started looking at the indentations in the stock back wall. I started hacking on the faux roots and came up with this. Difficult to see but there is some depth which is nice.

I am going to cover all of the rock backing except the roots in the soil that came with the Exo. The contrast in color may work or it may wet the bed. If the contrast does not work or looks nasty, I'll cover the roots as well. If it is still hideous, I will fling in the trash can and start over.

Am I on the right track? Speak up folks. Friends don't let friends make ugly, poorly designed backgrounds.


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## dartboard

The worst thing about stumbling upon a good build thread is when they are not building it as fast as I want them to!!!!! 

I subscribed. It looks like you are doing things the right way. I look forward to watching this thing progress.... now get movin!


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## WONTON SALLY

what do most on here use the expanding black foam for?


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## Zoomie

All foams (The black pond foam as well as the three types of Great Stuff yellow spray foams, oh...and the two part foam) are almost always used to create backgrounds. Sometimes they are used to create wood or rock formations.

Originally I was going to use it for my background. For a guy with no artistic talent that has a hard time drawing a stick man on paper, foam can be intimidating to use. It can be a pain to work with. Unless you use a frame (like the one I showed pics of earlier in this post), it is next to impossible to get back out of the tank. In addition, it can be a sticky mess. 

I shied away from it for now as I wanted to practice with the stuff a bit. FOr now, I will affix the vines to the backing, then spread silicone on the backing and press the substrate into the silcone. The substrate is a more natural color than the shade of paint used on the foam backing that came with the tank.

I need to finish drying out the substrate so it adheres to the silicone. Hoping to complete drying tonight or at least have enough to do a section.


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## WONTON SALLY

yeah, with my luck i would have to scrap the tank if i used the foam. i would have to go to a few black foam seminars before i used it.


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## Zoomie

OK, now that I have this test fitted. Time to lock everything down. But first, I needed a few things:










For those that don't know, Gorilla GLue acts just Great Stuff, but is not pressurized. The glue activates by moisture. While there is enough moisture in the air to activate, a spray bottle cuts dry time significantly. Wet both surfaces:










I did not want to go through the painstaking process of gluing each entire root down for a couple of reasons. First, I wanted to leave some gaps for vines. Second, Gorilla Glue expands approximately 400%. I knew I was gong to have to do some trimming with the exacto knife and didn't want to have to make excess work.

Once, I placed the vine, I tacked down with toothpicks to hold it in place:










When you get done with the background should look a little like the pin cushion guy from Hellraiser:



















Two hours later,you pull the toothpicks and you end up with this:










Side angle to see space left for the vines/roots:










While I wait for the substrate to dry, I'll jump on the exacto/clean-up so the backing is ready for silcone and substrate coverage.


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## Nate Mcfin

I enjoy your writing style, taste in music, and beverages. I also think you have done an outstanding job with this build so far. I have been researching far too long and your thread is making me think it is time to get started. 

SuBScRiBed!

-Nate


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## WONTON SALLY

the stock backgroung that came with mine looked all too fake, that's why i chose the cork tile. had mine came with your style i would have went your route. looking good keep the pics coming.


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## Zoomie

Nate, thank you ! I am trying to keep this fun. There is enough self-imposed stress to deal with in ensuring that build enclosures in which PDF's thrive. No need to wind myself up any further ! lol

*Wanton Sally*, My background is hideous as well. You can do exactly what I did and cover up the ugly. See below.

OK, last night the substrate failed to be completely dry so I had to cook in the oven some more. I still feel silly that I had to soak this stupid substrate brick in 100oz of water to break it up AND THEN promptly put in on cookie sheets to dry in oven for days !

I did manage to clean up the excess glue and ended up with this. Anyone going this route should note that it is OK if you still see the G Glue as long as you scraped the shiny skin of it off in order for the silicone to adhere.










This morning I continued cooking the substrate until I finally got a batch of it completely dry. For those that may not know, the substrate must be bone dry in order to adhere to the silicone, otherwise, moisture transfer will inhibit proper curing.

I then grabbed a tube of GE Silicone in brown. WARNING. THIS STUFF IS NOWHERE NEAR THE COLOR OF THE NOZZLE. It is more like a charcoal grey. Not a big deal as I was covering it. Still do not fool yourself into thinking that if it peaks out or remains uncovered that it will blend in. It is an oogly, non earthy color. Better than white or clear but oogly just the same.

I grabbed the gloves, a piece of cardboard, and a soft bristle toothbrush. I basically squeezed out the silicone on the cardboard, then CAREFULLY worked it in to where the backing meets the root/vine. As clarification, you can spread the silicone pretty thick. Thick means no more than an 1/8 inch. 

Another note...you have two choices when applying. If you want clear deliniation (flagrant foul on use of the root word deliniate) between the roots and the substrate, TAKE YOUR TIME when applying the silicone. I did note that if you got a little sloppy with the application and get silicone on the side of the root/vine, it did give the perception that the root/vine was breaking through the earth. I can see the technique adding interest if someone liked the look.

Once I got the silicone down, I dumbed 1/2 inch or so of substrate on to the silicone. You want to lay the substrate on thick enough that if the silicone is forced up through the layer, it doesn't glob. Again, take your time to ensure that you thoroughly and completely mash the substrate down. If you fail to do this, you will have bald spots. (Are you looking at my head?)

Once done, you end up with this:










Not very sexy, I know. After I let it sit for about one hour, I turned the board over and shook off the excess. It is important to note that if you do this in the house, you may want to put a sheet down prior to doing so or your better half will surely beat you down ! 

After shaking off all of the excess, I took a firm bristle toothbrush and carefully cleaned off the root/vines. I also hit the cracks and crevices, again to make them stand out. You will feel the substrate move a bit when you get to the silicone, however, if you aren't brushing with a heavy hand, you'll get real clean lines.

Wala !










As you can see, I have a couple of spots I missed. While I am unsure if I will fix them or leave the rock foam peaking out, I can't do anything until they dry without messing up the board or skinning the substrate off.

Also, the substrate once misted is darker. You'll still see the contrast of the root/vines against the background but it will not be as severe.

Considering that I suck at anything resembling creativity, I am very happy with this for my first background ever. It was nice to only have to add silicone and G Glue to the materials that came with the unit to make a tolerable background.

So what's next ?

Well, I am awaiting ABG mix, and Hydroton to show up in the mail. Today, I'll make a final decision on drain placement, cover the false bottom in mesh, get some screen in to the front vent to limit bug escapes, and go get a couple pieces of glass cut.

FOr all of you experienced folks, I apologize for being overly detailed through such a simple application process. I am trying to fill in some the blanks for those new like me. Hopefully, they'll feel confident enough to pull the trigger. 

If I can do this and not silicone my hand to the background, anyone can.


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## Zoomie

OK, set up number 356. Setting aisde the fact that it looks like I shop at Pete's wood tailings and barber shop, I like that the wood creates the opportunity to arrange plants at different heights. Still, I am starting to worry that I may be sucking up too much floor space for 3 Leucs.

Any thoughts? 

Go ahead. Feel free to use the "icky" word.

I think I can knock some more of the ugly out of it with plant placement.


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## ZookeeperDoug

Looking good man. Keep it up!


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## Zoomie

Thanks Doug !

Got the drain installed for the false bottom. Also got it covered in mesh. THe drain will actually end up having some substrate on it. I will have to make the spring tails mad evey time I need in it.

Was watching a Grimm vid and saw him add in gravel for a cleaner look on the front of the tank. I really liked it, although I'll have to make a trap door in the top of the false bottom to get the Hydroton put in. Well worth it IMHO, even after it snots up.



















Got my glass cut for both tops. Sadly, it is 1/16 too long to just drop it in the top of the viv. It catches on the door hinge covers. GRRRRR ! While I would love to blame Lowe's, the cut it exactly to my measurements. Boooo Hiiiiissssss to me. I guess I am operating under the _*measure once and pay for it twice*_ rule.


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## ZookeeperDoug

Very nice look to the bottom with the aquarium gravel.


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## Zoomie

Well, I am stalled at this point waiting for my best friends at UPS and Fed X. ABG, plants, Hydroton, leaf litter, drill bit for glass top etc.

I did get the front vent meshed to deter bug escapes.

I will use the time to sort out some light/lumen questions and plant info.

I need to order Springs/Isos this week to seed the tank. WIll also order FF's to ensure that I can run stable cultures. Woohoo ! I'll be able to frog shop in a couple of weeks...providing that it doesn't get any hotter. 

Starting to lean heavily toward Leucs Guyana morph. Seems like every time I see a pic of them, it makes me feel funny. Not funny Ha ha but funny strange. Like waaaaay back in the day when I first saw that Farrah Fawcett poster !


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## dartboard

Zoomie you are doing a great job. I do have a couple questions for you. Why are you ordering hydroton balls if you have a false bottom? I ask more because I want to know than saying that it is wrong, but it seems redundant. Also, in the last picture of your false bottom it seemed you had nothing underneath it supporting it. Are you worried that it will begin to sag with the weight of everything on top of it? Maybe you have something under it and I just couldn't see it. Overall the build looks like it is coming along really well!


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## dartboard

Zoomie said:


> Seems like every time I see a pic of them, it makes me feel funny. Not funny Ha ha but funny strange. Like waaaaay back in the day when I first saw that Farrah Fawcett poster !


Oh, one other thing... regarding your last comment here. I think it may be time you take a much needed 2 to 3 month break from the hobby.


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## Zoomie

Good catch on the Hydroton, DB. Originally I was going to add a pump and bubbler to drive oxygen in to water. Standing water in an oxygen poor environment us a breeding ground for nasty stuff. I then changed my mind and went with the simple access drain. The Hydroton would have been a media to allow good bacteria to colonize. I would have left a 1.5 inch from the top of the Hydroton to the bottom of the false bottom. Habits from reefing die hard.

In the end, I elected not to worry as the Mist King should flush system often enough to avoid nasty water.

The false bottom has additional supports underneath running front to back. Difficult to see. Should be fine for ABG and wood. If you think it needs to be major beefy then let me know and I will pull it. I would rather pull it now versus later.

LOL @ Farrah! I couldn't help being ridiculous this morning.


----------



## dartboard

Oh I see the extra support you put there now. I am sure that will be plenty of support. Can't wait to see the hardscape up!


----------



## Zoomie

Me neither! Some good things finally coming together.

Two local folks ran me down (Dendroguy and Chelsey). Between them, I hope to get a starter spring/iso culture together. Dendro also offered a ff culture which is great. As soon as my cups and media show, I can practice to make sure I can support our soon to be extended family.

My ABG and LL is here. Also plants should be here this week. 

Getting there, slowly but surely. While it's killing me not have PDF's yet, I know I am doing this the right way. 

"I'm wonewee, so wonewee". Bad Team America quote.


----------



## Zoomie

Well,things continue to come together. SPoke with another local member Chirs (FrogManchu). He is putting together a nice starter pack for Springs and Isos. That's three local folks now that have offered to help in any way they can.

Nist King wont be here for another week so I'll be hand misting. Fan controller on the way. I will deal with fans and Mist King at the same time.

Got half of the ABG laid in:










Got the wood in and set some plants in. I have waaaay too many plants right now. I stashed them in tank two. Here are the goodies




























Here's Midget










And the cat daddy. Nonis. I want this in this tank but it may have to go in tank two.










Here are the others. Many are unmarked so I have some homework to do. I posted up on the plants forum hoping that someone can help me out.










He is what I have so far. Not writeen in stone as I am wooried about accurate placement. 










Mosses and Ferns here Friday along with some creepers to do the back wall.
Once I solidify placement, I will lay in leaf litter.

A bunch of Orange Terribilis showed up for sale today. While I will cry myself to sleep tonight, I have to stick to the plan. Leucs first and tank needs to be established first.


----------



## Dendroguy

Nice tank!


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## Zoomie

Dendroguy said:


> Nice tank!


Hey Davis ! I may end up with extra stuff. If you need a few plants I can run them down to you.


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## WONTON SALLY

looks better and better with every post.


----------



## Dendroguy

Zoomie said:


> Hey Davis ! I may end up with extra stuff. If you need a few plants I can run them down to you.


Unless you have any extra broms or tills I don't need any extra plants,oh and you'll wnat to get that bromeliad out of the soil,or it'll rot


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## Zoomie

Dendroguy said:


> Unless you have any extra broms or tills I don't need any extra plants,oh and you'll wnat to get that bromeliad out of the soil,or it'll rot


I'll pull it. Thanks ! I'll check the Broms for extras.


----------



## Zoomie

Locacl member Forgmanchu invited me over after telling me he put together a really nice starter package for me. I have flies, I have isos, I have spring tails. I don't think I have ever been so excited about a bunch of bugs in my entire life. Frog also showed me his stunning frogs, in addition to his bug set up. Then w topped the visit off with feeding. Let's just say that his frogs havent missed too many meals. Talk about hospitality. Huge thanks FM !

I came home and did some rearranging. After pushing the Broms and Tils around, I kind of brought everything together. I laid in some live oak leaves, and reserved a spot for the love shack with a Magnolia leaf. 




























I have some vines coming in tomorrow. I also have some cuttings that Frogmanchu gave me.

Time to seed a few bugs to get this party started! Woohoo !


----------



## WONTON SALLY

yep, never thought i'd get excited about things you would usually smash with your foot until now, let there be insects!!!!


----------



## GRIMM

Yup, the new brom cluster configuration looks way better then the 1st go around. All you need now is a some slow creeping vines up the back wall and you are set.


----------



## ZookeeperDoug

Strong work man. Definitely like the version 2.0 better than the first go.


----------



## Dendroguy

Man,you came back with a haul! Your tank looks great,just add some rare broms from my florida trip and youll be set just kidding


----------



## dartboard

Looking good zoomie. I think you are going to really like it!


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## Zoomie

Big thanks everyone! Sitting here this morning checking it out and I like it. Hoping the PDF's enjoy it 1/2 as much as I do thus far.

I am really glad that everyone here advised me to hold off on frogs until the tank settles. I still need to push a few things around and add the creepers. It is far easier to make adjustments without worrying about an escape or stressing the frogs. 


I was going through the Isos and Springs last night. The things are small. Really small. That forced me to go back and see just how well the tank was sealed. Big problem ! I added the electrical tape seals at the edges of the door. I also cut a piece of air hose to seal the area between the doors.The front vent is still a problem. I put a couple pieces of screen in there earlier but it still looks like the bugs can come and go as they please. Will have to chase down some weed barrier today.

Interestingly, that altered temp variance. Tank runs 76.1 at the end of the light cycle but only dropped to 74.4 versus 72 before sealed. My wife brought up the AC 1 degree and informed me before doing so. Old reefing habit carryover. I am considering droppng the house back 1 degree again and moving up in strength on lighting from the 13/60w 6500K to the 20/75w. I'll test prior to having frogs to see how the other bulbs affect temps.

Mist King will arrive next week. Will shop for fans and fan controller today. Also need to grab some boxes as I intend to culture some of the isos so that I have bugs on hand for the second tank.

And finally, I am only guy that feels like he is holding a hand grenade with the pin pulled when walking around inside the house with a blooming culture of Hydeis?


----------



## Dendroguy

You don't have to worry about the vent or the gaps between the doors,the Bugs will never leave the soil


----------



## Zoomie

Dendroguy said:


> You don't have to worry about the vent or the gaps between the doors,the Bugs will never leave the soil


If you say so DG. But if a bug gets out I'm sending my wife over to your place and you can deal with her.


----------



## vivlover10

My fruit flys get out through the bottom vent so I just but some black electrical tap over the one in the front that you can see and for sides I used airline tubing I got from petco that cost me 4 with tax. For the springs and isos they stay under or on top of the leaf litter.


----------



## GRIMM

If you want a cleaner look to seal things up, try using silicone beads on the glass gaps. Smear some lipchap or vaseline on one of the glass edges, then close the doors and bridge the door gaps from the inside using electrical tape. Then run silicone in the gap, smooth it out and let it dry. Hopefuly the lipchap will have prevented the silicone from attaching to both doors, and it should seperate easily after removing the tape. If not, all it takes is a quick razor blade to cut one side. Also, if you want a little clearance between doors, just add a few layers of tape over one of the glass edges to decrease the size of the bead between them (then lipchap over the tape)

If you have a steady hand and attention to detail you should be able to do all the gaps this way, even between the doors and sides. I dont like bugs crawling around my house, so gaps in my tanks are a no-no.


----------



## Dendroguy

Zoomie said:


> If you say so DG. But if a bug gets out I'm sending my wife over to your place and you can deal with her.


The flys may get out,but the springs and isos almost NEVER will


----------



## WONTON SALLY

i saw hands on about what grimm said sealing the gaps between the glass doors and worked like a charm minus the lip chap, ran a razor down the middle and ne escapee's yet?


----------



## Zoomie

I'll give it a try and see how it goes. 

Breaking up bug cultures right now and cooking charcoal. I think I have black lung after all that hammering.


----------



## Dendroguy

Zoomie said:


> I'll give it a try and see how it goes.
> 
> Breaking up bug cultures right now and cooking charcoal. I think I have black lung after all that hammering.


make sure to pre-soak the charcoal for 24 hours


----------



## WONTON SALLY

i bought the charcoal culture kit from josh's otherwise i'd be posting some knarly pics of what the hammer does to fingers!


----------



## Zoomie

Pre-soak...Check !

I didn't break down the chunks quite small enough so I need to go for round two! 

The gray peels are enjoying cruising the tank. This is an awefully expensive set up for a bug that I see on sidewalks about 100 times per day.


----------



## aboznut

Zoomie - My tip - sip the anejo...

I'm working on a 18X18X36 build and was stuck, stuck, stuck on what to do with the background. I may try your background method.

Above the 36, I think I will put a pair of 18X18X24's, so this will be very helpful.

But I'll have to build a nice, sturdy, walnut frame work over the 36 to hold the 18's first.

I'm just learning about mopani. I thought some of your wood looked like grapewood to me, but I am certainly no expert there!

Great thread - viv's look great. The thought process going through it helped also.


----------



## vivlover10

aboznut said:


> Zoomie - My tip - sip the anejo...
> 
> I'm working on a 18X18X36 build and was stuck, stuck, stuck on what to do with the background. I may try your background method.
> 
> Above the 36, I think I will put a pair of 18X18X24's, so this will be very helpful.
> 
> But I'll have to build a nice, sturdy, walnut frame work over the 36 to hold the 18's first.
> 
> I'm just learning about mopani. I thought some of your wood looked like grapewood to me, but I am certainly no expert there!
> 
> Great thread - viv's look great. The thought process going through it helped also.



Try the tree fern pannels and clay. If you don't like clay you can it right off. You can shape it and play with until you like it. With the tree fern you silicone it to the back wall and stick vines and broms in it and it looks awesome!!!


----------



## Zoomie

I just started thinking about the second tank. I seriously considered doing the background in another medium i.e. GS or clay. MY OCD just won't let me do it since the tanks sit one inch apart. 

I will use the roots again, however, I think I am going to imbed some cork in the backing. Similar to Grimm's mirror tanks but more of a continuation of the first tank with a more concerted effort on designing multiple layers on the wall.

And the nightmere begins yet again !


----------



## aboznut

Some questions about this build and in general:

Where are you getting the plastic mesh grid?

Where are most people getting the black Great Stuff?

Any concerns with solvents and chemicals in Great Stuff and silicone in the viv? Everybody uses silicone, but I catch a buzz every time I use it.

What about clay? Where should I look to find it locally? Craft store? Any special clay I should ask for, or avoid?

I just went on a quest for the holy grail trying to find Hydroton/hydroballs locally...and was finally successful, so any help would be greatly appreciated! (FYI...I found a product called Earth Juice Aerorock by hydro-organics I am going to try).

I prefer to buy locally to save on shipping AND/OR support sponsors of Dendroboards if possible.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Zoomie

aboznut said:


> Some questions about this build and in general:
> 
> Where are you getting the plastic mesh grid?
> 
> It's charcoal color fiberglass screen mesh. I got it a Lowes or Home Depot in the hardware section.
> 
> 
> Where are most people getting the black Great Stuff?
> 
> I have no idea where the black pond stuff comes from. You can run it down online from a pond supply site at 14-16.00 a can or buy Great Stuff (5.38 per can) which is an ugly yellow. You first apply a colored silicone to the insid of the tank so you don't have to look at it. You're going to coat the stuff in silicone and then apply a substrate so the extra step may be worth it to save a few bucks, depending on your budget.
> 
> Any concerns with solvents and chemicals in Great Stuff and silicone in the viv? Everybody uses silicone, but I catch a buzz every time I use it.
> 
> Stick with GE 100% silicone and you will be fine. THousands of tanks have been made with this without any problems with tank inhabitants. As for Great Stuff, it is only a problem when wet. Once cured, there are no issues. In both cases you would let both products cure until you can stick your head in the tank and not smell a thing.
> 
> What about clay? Where should I look to find it locally? Craft store? Any special clay I should ask for, or avoid?
> 
> Any big box store (Wal Mart etc) in the cat litter section. Look at the cheap brands. Read the ingredients until you find one that says 100% clay or 100% glay aggregate. You don't want anything else in it. It then get soaks in a bucket overnight in treated water until it absorbs it. You then work it back in to clay. Your hands will hurt!
> 
> I just went on a quest for the holy grail trying to find Hydroton/hydroballs locally...and was finally successful, so any help would be greatly appreciated! (FYI...I found a product called Earth Juice Aerorock by hydro-organics I am going to try).
> 
> I prefer to buy locally to save on shipping AND/OR support sponsors of Dendroboards if possible.
> 
> I live in a small town so I there isn't much I can buy locally other than a piece of cork or two.
> 
> Because PDF's are a niche market, it is absolutely critical that we support our sponsors here. I have made purchases from a number of them. In every case, they were easy to reach, and all busted their can to help me and ensure I found what I needed.
> 
> Thanks for your help!


You're welcome. Any help I have given you was help I received here. There are some fantastic, extremely knowlegable folks here.

Start a build log and start sharing. We all love build logs with photos. Heck I even like looking at build logs for simple Q Tanks.


----------



## Zoomie

aboznut said:


> I'm just learning about mopani. I thought some of your wood looked like grapewood to me, but I am certainly no expert there!
> 
> Great thread - viv's look great. The thought process going through it helped also.


You are correct. THe first tank does have two pieces of grapewood in it. One under the mopani which jets out to the left. The other creates a higher ground area towards the back of the tank.


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## WONTON SALLY

it's cool to see we as NEWBS, aren't treated as such, thanks to all for the info and future advice!!!!!!!!!


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## Zoomie

I agree. I think everyone is trying to help everyone. While we don't know much now as newbs, we can answer the simple questions as we are living them currently !


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## WONTON SALLY

not to stray off subject with your thread, but with reef tanks and in the R/C hobby if your'e not known forget about getting the inside scoop on stuff, also great to see in our hobby people concerned with conservation of the species as well as hopefully not allowing the dreaded HYBRID breeding of our frog's going on.


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## shadowbear559

Man I'm really enjoying this read and learning a lot from you zoomie. I am building my first PDF viv too as we speak. Nice work! 

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> not to stray off subject with your thread, but with reef tanks and in the R/C hobby if your'e not known forget about getting the inside scoop on stuff, also great to see in our hobby people concerned with conservation of the species as well as hopefully not allowing the dreaded HYBRID breeding of our frog's going on.


*Wonton Sally* I see a lot of similarities between reefing and PDF's. While it is true that it is critical to build relationships in order to have a shot at some of the rarer stuff, I suspect that it can become become a factor as well with rarer PDFs. I do know that many quality breeders and hobbyist/breeders want to know where their froglets are going and some comfort in knowing that the buyer knows what they are doing with regard to care. I'll share a little about this in a moment.

*ShadowBear*

Thank you for the kind words. As a stone cold newb, I don't have much to offer forum members. Because of this, I thought it important to document what's gone right and what's gone wrong with the hope that it helps someone...anyone that can't get comfortable in moving forward.

Start a build thread and get that tank moving. Everyone on this board had to put together their first tank at some point and remembers the stress associated with it. I suspect that it why so many of vets continue to answer the same newb questions over and over again.


----------



## Zoomie

Not a lot report although it was a very productive weekend.

I spent much of Saturday nightworking on the design for the second tank. I had a vision of what I wanted to attempt to accomplish. I finally had to walk away as I got frustrated with the design in all it's ugliness. I finally went to bed, thinking that it would turn from a forg, or in this case, a frog tank, in to a prince.

Sunday I awoke and immediately took a look at my design. Yep, still ugly. I think I have issue pinned down to a single piece of cork that I am trying to make work. In the end, it is just sucking up too much floor space. I am afraid that it will have to be held back for a bigger tank. Specifically, my third tank as I have aleady decided that I must have Terribilis in orange. I'll need a 60 gal to do them up right.

Plant update - The plants seem to be adjusting nicely. I have lost very little foliage and am already seeing some growth. THe Neo's did green up a bit but appear to be bringing back their red coloration as they adjust to the light. I attribute this to moving from 15w/60w 6500K bulbs to the 20x/75w 6500's. I want as many lumens from the light as I can get without materially raising the tank temp. I may move up again and test the 100w although suspect this may move the temp up.

The dreaded mold showed up on a few things today. It's almost entirely on the back wall which is the most humid area of the tank with the least amount of air flow. While the situation will correct itself, adding a fan will accelerate the process.


----------



## Zoomie

*Talking with a hobbyist breeder*

Yesterday I had the pleasure of spending close to 4 hours on the phone with DB member, local hobbyist and breeder, Chesney. (My 8th grade English teacher would have a canniption with that last sentence.) While much of what was discussed was not directly related to build outs, I learned so many things that I actually took notes. I felt it important to share some what I learned as many beginners will go through this process at some point.

Lisa was one of 3 experienced froggers that reached out early to ty and help answer questions and offer local support for any perceived emergencies. Yesterday I contacted her for two things. First, to see what she had in the way of froglets/juvs, and second to invite myself over to her house to learn everything I could.

About 15 minutes in to the conversation, it dawned on me that I was being interviewed. INTERVIEWED ! For what you might ask? Lisa wanted to know everything about the tanks I had, their set-up, and my upkeep plans. She wanted to know about culturing. We talked about isos, springs, and bean weevs. She even jumped on this thread and reviewed it carefully. Now don't get me wrong. It's not like she tied me to a chair, shined a light in to my eyes, and started firing off questions. She answered questions all throughout the conversation. A tremendous number of questions.

It finally dawned on me that she was attempting to figure out where I was in my journey to learn about PDF's and which species would be a good fit. This is when a light on. 

A number of our sponsors here ask you to contact them for a list of available species. I originally thought that they were just too busy to post regular updates. It seems that this gives breeders the opportunity for a subtle screening process to ensure that the buyer is capable of caring for the particular species.

I learned later that Lisa "adjusts" her availability list to any buyers experience or ability. Once she started running through current and upcoming froglets, she made mention of two species in which she was uncomfortable releasing until they were older. I suspect there were species that went completely unmentioned due to my lack of expereince. Heck, she even explained which frogs would work best in the Exos as set up, and which would potitally be a problem. To be clear, she wasn't being the frog police, she just didn't want to put a more challenging species in to a potentially difficult situation....or put me in to a potentially difficult situation.

This was remarkable to me. So many people are passionate about PDF's here. Passionate enough to do everything in their respective power to ensure that PDFs have a home in which they thrive, and give new froggers the highest chance of a happy a succesful experience raising them. 

The most important thing I learned is the criticality of speaking very candidly to sellers about our set ups and our respective experience and knowledge base. We need to follow their recommendations without fail, even if that means acknowledging that we do not have the knowledge or proper set-up to house our favorite species ! Don't ask a competent seller for their advice and then ignore it.

I am absolutely giddy (GIDDY!) that Lisa invited me out next Sunday. She is going to walk me through everything that I am capable of learning......Set ups, behavior, potential stress signs, looking for eggs, raising tads, etc. Anything to give me a head start. I told her that if she was as smart as she sounds, she would put my butt to work so that she too gets something out of the deal 

Heck I am so excited, I am not going to be able to sleep Saturday night.

With her permission, I'll take lots of pics and keep detailed notes of what we discussed.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

i guess i missed it, where is lisa from?


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## Zoomie

You didn't miss it. I was intentionally vague.

I was excercising great care to avoid putting the mods in a bad situation and forcing them to have to close the thread.I believe that she is just a very serious hobbyist and it would be unfair to our paying sponsors.

I was trying to pass on my experience from a learning perspective and didn't want it misconstrued as a plug. Hence the tippy-toe approach.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

gotcha, didn't think about naming someone and then closing your thread due to listing a sponsor. must be a serious hobbyist due to all the specifics she was asking you. thanks again.


----------



## Zoomie

I don't think that the mods are heavy handed here at all. Still, if someone were to complain it would be an issue. Just staying on the right side of the FAQ.

I will post up pics of her set up as long as she approves. As a newbie, I can't help but wonder how our vererans here manage larger collections. 

Hoping I can develop some good care/husbandry habits early so things don't get out of hand.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

sure she will have some sweet setup looking forward to pics.


----------



## BethInAK

Zoomie,
I'm a newbie too. i just got two exo terra 18x18x24's that I am going to build for geckos.

Its amazing how the tank suddenly just "came together" - I was frustrated with you on the first pictures on how to use your wood. But in the end, it all just worked beautifully. I LOVED the gravel in front of the false bottom - looked so slick. 

I'll be watching your second build too. Are you going to skip the pre-fab background? I probably need to do something really terracy because the gargs need a place to climb. One of them is my special needs gecko (he has mbd) and is a klutz too. I don't need too much floor space. I'm debating between concrete and GS but think that maybe for my first tank, GS is more "undoable" if were to screw it up.

I need someone to explain to me when you'd use little clay balls and when you'd do a false bottom.
off to create a thread.


----------



## frogfreak

Zoomie said:


> I came home and did some rearranging. After pushing the Broms and Tils around, I kind of brought everything together. I laid in some live oak leaves, and reserved a spot for the love shack with a Magnolia leaf.


This is a hell of a first tank! I like you're approach to the hobby. A lot of people offered suggestions and you learned and adapted. This is what the hobby is all about. It's one BIG learning process and you will go far. Thanks for the laughs! Your sense of humour had me going good! 

Best


----------



## Zoomie

Well no one was more frustrated than I was. Creating anyhing is always horribly painful. 

I have put the second tank on hold until this weekend. I will get to check out many tanks and can surely draw some inspiration from them.

I am not sure what I am going to do for a backing. Clay keeps whispering sweet nothings in my ear.

False bottom vs Hydroton is a personal choice. I liked less weight and Grimm helped me with his gravel idea to hide the false bottom. 

I may go with Hydroton this go-round just for the experience.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

hey zoomie, what is the big log made out of in the center piece, as well keep this in mind as i didn't, one of my cobalts like to hide/bury itself under my moss, substrate, etc and is very hard to find. it would have a field day in your setup. looks great regardless.


----------



## Zoomie

*Frogfreak*, thank you for the kind words. If I can get this right on the front end, then for the most part, I wont have to tear up the tank repeatedly, potentially stressing the frogs.And I am glad I waited as I have had to do major tank renovations twice which would have surely flipped out any PDF's in the tank.

I came here to learn and to ask for help. It would be moronic to ask for help, and then ignore the suggestions, especially from a vet. If you don't want to hear the correct answer, then don't ask ! lol

*Wonton Sally*, that center piece actually starts vertically in the back right corner and then makes a turn. That is cork. Very light and hollow. Often found in pet stores in the reptile section. Notorious sleeping quarters for most things asp.


----------



## Zoomie

Well that was interesting ! So Josh's media came in today. I wanted to run it and the Repashy to find my preference. With great confidence and the aire of a master frogger, I tapped the culture of Hydei until they fell to the bottom. I then opened the lid to tap a number of them in to the new culture. I may have even been revelling in my bug awesomeness.

It was at this particular moment that 50 of the little snots made like Michael Jordan AND JUMPED OUT OF THE CUP on to the kitchen counter. I freaked out! I was trying to get the lid back on both cultures. Bugs are running amuck. 4 or 5 had jet packs and simply flew off toward the living room. 

Sure that they would start a local neighborhood plague, I went on a bug killing spree that would have made Black Flag hang their head in shame. I stomped, I stamped, I mashed. I executed with little regard for Hydei life.

While all this was going on, my wife heard the commotion and asked what was going on.

"Um hon........well........somehow, I'm not really sure..........a few bugs somehow escaped."

My wife asked, face locked in chilling stare while reaching for her broom that she liks to fly around the house from time to time, " how many is a few, MR ?"

I said (in voice of a six year old. Not sure what happened to the bass in my voice) " Um.......the ones running around or the flightless ones that in fact flew away?"

Mrs. Zoomie's love and affection for me is not exactly peaking at this particular moment.

Terrified, I went out on the porch to do the Melanos. I returned inside the house. Yes, I am glad I had the keys as Mrs Zoomie locked the door. I stomped in to the house, beat my chest like a gorilla, and decreed, " HA ! I didn't lose a single one. I am still in fact THE MAN" 

As I stood there with my hands on my hips, unfazed by my wife's icy stare, a Hydei with jet pack landed right on my flippin nose!

Looks like Mrs. Zoomie gets to sprawl on the Tempurpedic tonight.


----------



## BethInAK

lol Zoomie!! Tell Mrs Zoomie I said 'go girl'

I think you might have convinced me to do the false bottom. I very much like the way yours looks with the gravel outside it.

Less weight sounds like a good thing. In case I need to take the geckos to get gecko-sat when we go on vacation.


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## WONTON SALLY

zoomie, you crack me up dude, thanks for the laugh.


----------



## Zoomie

That's what I am here for !


----------



## WONTON SALLY

out of curiosity since this is your 1st setup as mine, did you go with twin tanks to have 2 different species of frog's or so you wouldn't have to do it again after the 1st was setup was complete?


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> out of curiosity since this is your 1st setup as mine, did you go with twin tanks to have 2 different species of frog's or so you wouldn't have to do it again after the 1st was setup was complete?


Recognizing my growing passion for PDFs, I knew that it was going to be impossible for me to just have a single species. So I settled for three.

The triple top-secret plan is:

Tank #1 18x18x24 - Changed my mind from Leucs to Grn/Brnz Auratus

Tank # 2 18x18x24 - Up in the air but I'll let you know this weekend ! Some sexy tinc. lol

Tank # 3 36x18x24 - Orange Terribilis

This should allow me to have a lot of fun and plenty to do but not be overwhelmed initially. 

After this, I will have to get rid of the kitchen table or perhaps the couch in order to find an interior wall for additional tank placement.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

After this, I will have to get rid of the kitchen table or perhaps the couch in order to find an interior wall for additional tank placement. [/QUOTE]


good luck on getting the Misses to approve that!!!!!


----------



## dartboard

Zoomie, the tank size I have is 36x18x24, and next week I am getting some yellow terribilis gross to put in there. I am thinking it will be big enough for 4 or 5. I have a smaller tank that is a tall one that I want to put some thumb nails in. I have heard that no collection is complete without at least one pair of thumbnails, so bethinking about at least one more tank!


----------



## Zoomie

dartboard said:


> Zoomie, the tank size I have is 36x18x24, and next week I am getting some yellow terribilis gross to put in there. I am thinking it will be big enough for 4 or 5. I have a smaller tank that is a tall one that I want to put some thumb nails in. I have heard that no collection is complete without at least one pair of thumbnails, so bethinking about at least one more tank!


Based on what I have read, 4 Terribilis should be perfect for the 36x18x24. It is easily my favorite frog. I have read every article and watched every YouTube vid that I could find. I would have already purchased them but they are big and the 18x18x24 just isnt a big enough footprint for them to be comfortable, IMHO.

I haven't sworn off anything or capped the number of PDF's I can have. I just want to get settled in and this should be plenty.

And yes, there are endless species of thumbnails that are absolutely stunning. That is why I am currently staying away. I don't need any other species whispering sweet nothings in my ear.

Don't come over here hawking froggy crack to try and get me hooked on the hard stuff!


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> After this, I will have to get rid of the kitchen table or perhaps the couch in order to find an interior wall for additional tank placement.


 
good luck on getting the Misses to approve that!!!!![/QUOTE]

Hey, a man can dream can't he? I still have some other 'opportunities' before the couch or the table go.


----------



## BethInAK

Zoomie, 
I am looking at the blue skink peoples enviroments for their animals - they are desert animals who don't need alot of water but need floor space and they have some AMAZING furniture conversions where they take an existing piece of furniture and convert it to a cage for a blue tongued skink. since seeing this, I have been examining every furniture item in my home to evaluate it for conversion as a herp cage. Yesterday, I informed my husband that I planned to be convert his chest of drawers into a pink tongued skink enclosure. 

I'm sure you can imagine the response.

I then suggested we build a passthrough hole in the entryway wall for a shelf to hold a terrarium for perhaps some smaller gecko or small frog. This idea was met with much less balk. I figure, if you ask for something horrible first, then something less horrible second, you might get the less horrible thing you wanted in the first place. 

It sounds like your house is full of furniture! Perhaps your china cabinet would make a lovely terrarium.


----------



## Zoomie

Beth, I think you're on to something. There is however, one small problem. Most of the good wall space is being sucked up by MY junk. 

We eat at the table about three times a year. Personally, I feel that it would make far better kindling than an actual table. It is in a nook area which would make a fantastic frog room. 

I am unsure if Mrs Zoomie would embrace my exceptional vision. She might run in to the back room, put on her husband-beater tank top, then give me a couple shots in the bread basket, followed by a what for and a how come.

We'll stick with baby steps and allow vivs to grow throught our home slowly....... like a fungus.


----------



## shadowbear559

Zoomie I feel your pain. My better half just put his foot down on my big toe. I already have a 4 foot boa, he brought the idea of a PDF viv. I asked for a teeny space to put a reticulated python and got the look of, well let's just say if looks could kill, someone would be spreading my ashes. My rebuttal of "it only gets 20 feet" only twisted the blade. I jumped back on his good side by telling him we could make the boa cage now into a frog tank and this pleased him enough to pull the knife out half an inch. All in due time....


----------



## BethInAK

Beware the potato chips, Zoomie!


----------



## Zoomie

Hahahahaha ! 

OK, got the backing of the second tank done. Silicone is curing. I had to use same technique as first tank with the tanks sitting right next to one and other. I'll reserve clay or GS for the big Terribilis tank. 

Once the silcone sets well, I do a dry run set up and trim cork logs as well as figure out a way to secure. Hopefully I can get this done this evening and take some pics.

Tomorrow I get get to run amuck at Lisa's place. I have exchanged temporary indentured servitude for letting me dig through her froggy underwear drawer! I am really excited as I will get the opportunity to learn a tremendous amount. I will take a million pics and do a write up from a beginner's perspective. Oh yeah......I am going to PDF Disneyland !


----------



## WONTON SALLY

anxious for you story and pics, will it be adventure land in the froggy sense?


----------



## Zoomie

I believe it is a tremendous opportunity to learn.

Well, I had to hook a right today. Bought a 6 foot rack. It will hold both Exos, an XL exo or 50 gal, and some additional goodies. 

I haven't even gotten PDF's yet and I am already expanding. lol. Pics tonight.


----------



## Zoomie

Left at 9AM this morning and just got home. An aboslutely incredible day! I'll post up pics and do a write up under seperate thread in the morning.

And somehow......I'm not sure how, some stunning D Auratus Green and Bronzes fell in to the passenger seat of my truck. Wooohoo !

I'll take some pics and post up tomorrow.


----------



## KingSnake9

Nice can't wait to see pics, kind of funny i bout 3 leucs today but at the toronto expo up north in canada. Enjoy your new frogs


----------



## dartboard

And so.......... It truly begins.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Hey Zoomie, if the cobalt's weren't my favorites the D Auratus Green and Bronzes would have been my 1st choice, if/when i get a second tank they will be the next inhabitants.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

few more questions Zoomie, will you post your thread in the Beginner Discussion and if not where?


----------



## Zoomie

The green and bronze Auratus are abolutely stunning. Shading variences from metallic green, turquoise, and blue are amazing to me. I still have them in a smaller container pending the rack of doom move. The little guys were out and about checking things out this morning. Will get them in the tank this evening. Since I have to pick up and move the tank, I do not want to chance one them getting hurt. 

I had the article done at 5am this morning and the site timed out and ate it. It took everything I had not to launch off on a 15 minute Turrettes episode.

I'll re-write now. I'll have to do it in parts. It will be in the beginner's section titled, "A day with a hobbyist/breeder from a beginner's perspective." 

While it is a lot about care of eggs/tads/froglets, it's in the B section. I just wanted to give new folks a feel for what it all entails, without it becoming all about processes, techniques.......things the vets really like to discuss.


----------



## Darts15

The Green and Bronze auratus are beautiful. I plan on getting some in the not too distant future myself  Good luck!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie i would have loved to hear your Turrettes episode, only because the way you word things is hysterical, i bet you were mighty P'd off, that would be my luck too, looking forward to the adventure, thanks andy-not sally.


----------



## Zoomie

You're welcome Andy ! I still say you have the best name here.

I am written out at this point. I'll bring everyone up to speed on my frog choices tonight or tomorrow. I will also take some pics this evening of the new rack.


----------



## BethInAK

I've been trying to figure out if Sally likes asian dumplings in soup or if she's lewd and licentious, and here her name is Andy! ;-)


----------



## WONTON SALLY

lewd and licentious, and here her name is Andy! ;-)[/QUOTE]


----------



## Zoomie

Last night I finally got stuff pushed around, got the Exos on the rack, and got the Auratus in to their new home. It was awesome! 2 of the 5 went exploring. The other three hid, however two more came out to check things out. 

I dusted up some Melanos with Repashy's Calcium + ICB and picked two spots to feed regularly. Top of the love shack and on the piece of wood nearest the front of the tank. The frogs that were out immediately started stalking flies which was absolutely fantastic. I also watched a couple of the froglets picking off micro fauna throughout the evening.

They seem to absolutely love the leaf litter. I went with live oak leaves versus Magnolia as the leaves are smaller and of better scale for the tank. The oak leaves tend to curl a bit from moisture in the tank, creating little spaces and caves in which the froglets can find cover.

Let me back up a bit and talk about species choices. Most of you that have been helping me here know that I went to Lisa's last weekend to get a crash course in rearing eggs/tads/forglets. When we were all done I got to just down in her frog room and observe 20 or so pairs. Basically they include Leucs, Auratus, many of the common Tics, and few of the less often seen varieties. After seeing all of these wonderful frogs, I ended up choosing the Auratus and some Leucs. The Leucs are staying with Lisa for a week or two until I complete the second Exo. 

So why did I choose what is likey the two most common species of frogs when I could have come home with Patricias, Nikitas, Reginas, Cobalts, or Brazilian Yellows? Likability was a huge factor. The Auratus blew me away with all of their different shades. The parents can throw metallic greens, Turquoise, and this blue color that is amazing. Auratus is also a group frog. Bringing home 5 froglets hopefuly allows me to get a pair or maybe even two out of the group. Finally, they are a slightly smaller frog. Some of the Tincs are absolute beasts. And with the Tinc reputation of two frogs in a tank, I was uncomfortable growing out 3 in one of the Exo's and stressing every day waiting for the ensuing future battle.

As for the Leucs, their personality was just awesome. Over and over I returned to the Leuc tank before pulling the trigger. 

So, the initial decision is final. Auratus and Leucs. The third species will be Orange Terribilis. 

I will probably pick up the Terribilis tank this weekend and continue researching habitat. Still undecided on the XL Exo, or save a couple of hundred and go with a 50 gallon tank with the dimensions of 36 x 18 x 18. I'll mull this one over a bit more.

So why no pics from last night ? Because my back room still looks like an absolute pig sty. I'll get it cleaned up tonight and post rack pics. I will also be able to get the second tank closer to completion.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

let's see those frogs you picked up, pics when you can.


----------



## deboardfam

Green and Bronze are an awesome frog. Mine are a little shy. In my newbness I didnt see them until I went to a breeders house to pick up my first frogs (cobalts) and an 18x18x24 zoomed. I knew I had to have some then. By the time I got around to getting them, I already had 4 other species LOL. Leucs are one of my favs as well. Extremely bold. You can just reach down right next to them and they wont move. You will definately be happy with your choices. Leucs have such a beautiful call as well. I have been playing the call for mine trying to get them started.


----------



## Zoomie

Well these little guys must think they are Terribilis because they went in to the tank and went on a bug killing spree. We had fed them on Sunday prior to me taking them home, so they only missed their normal meal time by a few hours.

Mrs Zoomie just called to say that a couple of them are out cruising right now. I don't need a babysitter cam, I need a froggy cam ! If I could figure out a way to keep it from fogging, I would probably go for it !

I will take pics tonight during feeding, or at least try.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

I will take pics tonight during feeding, or at least try.[/QUOTE]

gonna hold you to it


----------



## Zoomie

Crappy cell phone pics from last night.

As you can see, D Auratus is horribly shy and rarely seen:


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## WONTON SALLY

so pics don't do them any justice?


----------



## Zoomie

Not even close. They have this metallic sheen which is very diffcult to photo without intentionally underexposing or washing out.

They were originally Nabors line. You can look at the Saurian pics to get a better feel. Some day, I will purchase a real camera.


----------



## BethInAK

sooo pretty!!
I love them!!
What did mrs zoomie say?? Does she like them?


----------



## Zoomie

Mrs Zoomie loves them and has been calling me with updates. The last one was about an hour ago and she said that 4 of the 5 of them were right out in the open. It appears that they like their new home.

Trying to get the room back in order this evening. Work on tank # 2. Maybe if I'm feeling sassy, get going on installing the Mist King.


----------



## eos

Been following this thread since the beginning.... I must say, nice job! Congrats on the frogs too. I know what you mean about the metallic sheen, hard to capture on camera, but looks great in person.


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## Zoomie

Thank you for the kind words. Everything I have done has been at the suggestion of the members here. I am to say that I have not been steered wrong a single time.

The froglets ate like pigs. A few are still hunting. 3 of them have blue hued feet and undersides are blue as well. Apparently they are still growing in to their respective colors. They look like they have been powder coated, if that makes sense.

On a roll with tank # 2. Ran out of gravel so off to evil Petsmart. I am going to get ABG in this thing tonight and seed with springs/isos if it kills me.


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## WONTON SALLY

They were originally Nabors line. You can look at the Saurian pics to get a better feel. Some day, I will purchase a real camera.[/QUOTE]

that's where i bought mine from and only seen a couple that had green out of hundred's of photo's. green just before the blue and black start for their legs. Patrick knows his stuff.


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## WONTON SALLY

yo zoomie, am i reading this right; you have 5 of those dudes in one tank?


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## Zoomie

Yes, I have a 5 of them in there temporarily only. Careful consideration was given prior to doing so. First, they are very young right now. The largest is about the size of a quarter, the smallest fits on a dime. Second, parents are the same size as dwarfish sized Leucs. About 50-60% of the the size of full-grown Cobalts. Third, Auratus are regularly housed as a group IF the tank is set up properly.

I am essentially using it as a temporary growout tank for now. A few of them will be joining me at work. 

Sorry, should have clarified that earlier.

Well the Leuc tank has ABG in it. It is ugly to say the least. My dog's hairy butt is more pleasing to the eye. I did take some pics so you too can shake your head in disbelief as I have. Feel free to hold your nooses as you point and ridicule me. I'll post them this morning. Left my camera cord at work.

Not sure why I hate it yet but if I stare at it long enough, my utter shame will help drive me to correct it.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Auratus are regularly housed as a group IF the tank is set up properly.

what is the correct setup?


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> Auratus are regularly housed as a group IF the tank is set up properly.
> 
> what is the correct setup?


I don't know if 'correct' is the right word. By correct I meant multiple hides and multiple open spaces with cover nearby. As info there are a number of places where the froglets were stalking ff and micro fauna. Sometimes in groups, sometimes solo. My interpretation is that the froglets must be given choices. Choices on where to hide, choices to hunt, choices to hang out, and choices to rest or sleep. Some would argue that I am essentially talking about barriers.

Remember, I am still new so this is my perception based on research, not true experience.

To be clear, I am not abdicating that everyone do this. I PM'd a number of vets here and asked if it was , in their respective opinion, based on species and my current tank set up, ok for a few months. All stated that it is fine for now with the understanding that I watch carefully for any signs of stress.

Everyone is eating well and playing nice in the sand box.


----------



## Zoomie

Tank 2 update. First let me back up a bit. I mentioned earlier on this thread that I was considering trying a GS or clay background for this tank. In the end, because these tanks sit side by side, I wanted to keep the backgrounds similar.

After all of the tanks I studied last weekend, I decided that while I really like tank 1, it was too neat. It looks a bit to man-made. With that, I decided to try and do a better job of making the tank look more random.

When I did the backing, instead of gluing every vine to background, I intentionally trapped a few. I would then terminate those vines in the substrate on the floor.

So I started with this at first:










Then got to here:










I then added to it to get this:



















Up to this point, I liked the tank. I then added soil and started adding plants. This is when the tank wet the bed:




























I hate it. I still like the basic structure of it. I believe that I have it pinned down to poor plant placement and selection.

I'll try and beat the ugly out of the thing in the next couple of days.

Back to Tank # 1. I tried to get some better shots of the Auratus. No luck. I'll post a couple just so you can see the pattern. I'll get some decent pics if it kills me yet.










Here's that metallic look I was talking about:










Here's two of them on Melano watch, with a third watching to ensure that no flies sneak out the back door.


----------



## chesney

You are far to critical of yourself John. That tank is amazing! It's also nice to see those babies adjusting so well to their new home


----------



## Zoomie

chesney said:


> You are far to critical of yourself John. That tank is amazing! It's also nice to see those babies adjusting so well to their new home


I'm not critical of myself. Just the ugly tank. Friends don't let friends keep beautiful frogs in an ugly tank. 

The crew seems to be doing great. They have been cleaning house on FF's as well as any spring or iso stupid enough to meander out in the open. I love watching them stalk and hunt. 

I may have to increase their intake. 2 of them continued hunting up until lights out.


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## WONTON SALLY

your tanks look pretty sweet for 1st time go around, like the comment about friends don't let friends keep ugly tanks----CLASSIC!!!


----------



## Zoomie

I have plants coming Friday which should help. I'll tear it up and see if I can improve it. 

Then its the 50 gallon build. So much more room!


----------



## dartboard

With much room comes much responsibility! I have found that the larger the tank the harder to landscape it. Good luck when the time comes


----------



## dartboard

Oh and not to hijack the thread, but I just picked up 5 new yellow terribilis frogs for my large exoterra. Thought you would enjoy a picture.


----------



## NickJR

Nice tanks


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## BethInAK

zoomie, I think your plants just need to grow in some!! It will look great in a month.

and I SEE the metallic frogs!! Thank you for trying so hard to take a picture of it. I've never seen a dart in person, except maybe at a zoo.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

what's going in the 50, frog wise?


----------



## Zoomie

dartboard said:


> With much room comes much responsibility! I have found that the larger the tank the harder to landscape it. Good luck when the time comes


Well that's not good news! lol I am comfortable with the responsibility. I will only have the three tanks. I would have thought that it would be easier, not harder with a larger tank. So you're you're telling me that two out of my three tanks will be ugly ?


----------



## Zoomie

dartboard said:


> Oh and not to hijack the thread, but I just picked up 5 new yellow terribilis frogs for my large exoterra. Thought you would enjoy a picture.


Dartboard, this is an authorized hyjack zone when it comes to Terribilis! Congrats on your new froggy biker club! I'm stuck between yellows and oranges but intend to try and stick with oranges.

Can I ask where they came from?


----------



## Zoomie

BethInAK said:


> zoomie, I think your plants just need to grow in some!! It will look great in a month.
> 
> and I SEE the metallic frogs!! Thank you for trying so hard to take a picture of it. I've never seen a dart in person, except maybe at a zoo.


Beth, sooner or later I will capture decent pics. 

You need to find some place where you can go and just check them out. They really are amazing to watch. 

It cracks me up to watch them hunt food. They can move in a hurry for a tasty morsel. 

The problem that I am have with the Leuc tank is that certain plants don't work well together. I can't get that "jungle look". 

Lisa's tanks were awesome because they all looked like mini jungles. While some of that is clearly tank maturity, design plays a huge roll. We will see what happens with the next batch of plants.

For the 50, I will do far fewer plant species and try to get closer to Terribilis' natural habitat.


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> what's going in the 50, frog wise?


The mighty Terribilis. Orange morph although Shawn/Sports Doc's yellows are absolutely incredible and continue to tempt me. Amazing color.

Terribilis and I are kindred spirits. Big belly, stomping around like big lugs, and eating everythiing in site. We are truly kindred spirits ! 

The only other frog I have seen that I am really upside down over is Orange Galacs. Fortunately the wait list is like 10 months for the particular line that I saw. I say fortunately as I don't have to torture myself with a choice between the two.

The one thing that I don't like about frog keeping is that you really have to be picky about what goes in a tank. I just dont have the room. I had to wedge the rack in as it was. Because of lack of tanks/space, I had to force myself to ignore so many incredible frogs. Patricia, Oyapok, Bakhuis Mountain, New River.......and these are just the Tincs. I refuse to even look at Pums for fear of falling in love with them.


----------



## frogfreak

Your tanks look great. It takes a long time for them to mature and get that "Look" you really after. Most of our tanks take about a year. After that time they won't even look close to what they look like now. You've seen that "Mature" look. 

I much prefer working on larger tanks. You don't have to be near as picky about what plants you choose and are able to use some larger species that you couldn't even dream of trying to use in a smaller tank.

Best


----------



## dartboard

I got them from stace, (sbreland on here). We are both in las vegas. they are from the stewart euro line. He has a ton of them but its too hot right now for him to ship them anywhere. He also has mint and orange ones, as well as some other crazy rare species.


----------



## Zoomie

Frogfreak, thank you for the kind words. And in the end, I think you're right. It is just going to take time for plants to fill in. If you put too many in initially, the frogs will be choked out in a few months.

Thanks Dart. Keep us updated with those beauties. 

I was asking as they tend to show up in bunches. Thought I would at least try to cut a deal in advance with someone. They can hold until temperatures support safe transport.


----------



## Zoomie

Last night I received a phone call from a local member. Unfortunately he has to downsize his collection a bit and asked if I was interested in a pair of proven Leucs that have just started breeding. I may or may not have peed my pants.

I'll pick them up Saturday morning. Woohoo ! My very first proven pair. I am really hoping I can get them settled in and comfortable so they don't wait 8 months to get back to being amorous.


----------



## dartboard

Wow, the ole Zoomie is living right. What a sweet opportunity.


----------



## Zoomie

Lisa steered him my way, knowing that I was looking for Leucs and knowing that Tank # 2 desperately needed new home owners.

I am really excited about getting them but feel bad that it is at the expense of the original owner. He's a good guy. The first DB member to invite me over and hooked me up with isos, springs, fly cultures, and a number of plants.

On a positive note, he did have some tads hatch out so the parents consider to reside there in spirit.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> Where are most people getting the black Great Stuff?
> I have no idea where the black pond stuff comes from. You can run it down online from a pond supply site at 14-16.00 a can or buy Great Stuff (5.38 per can) which is an ugly yellow. You first apply a colored silicone to the insid of the tank so you don't have to look at it. You're going to coat the stuff in silicone and then apply a substrate so the extra step may be worth it to save a few bucks, depending on your budget.


Wow 5.38 per can? They should have it at Lowes for like 2 something
I saw that you're using the blue cans....everyone I seen use the red can. The blue cans are more exspensive.
At my Lowe's here in Austell, GA(beside Atlanta) they have the black spray foam(pond foam) over at the pond stuff at the pumps. Might wanna check there.

I love this thread so far. I've been reading every bit of it.
I like your personality man. Reminds me of the people back home.
I'm from Bristol, VA/TN. I've been to the Kingsport skatepark many times.
People around Atlanta are rude and have no personality or sense of humor lol.
I'm happy to see someone from the Tri-Cities here on the board 
I can't wait to finish this thread. 
I wish people would hook me up with extra plants lol. 
I'm about to do a 29 gallon tank and I barely have any plants.
Looking good so far and now back to your thread 

-Brandon


----------



## johnyrocks

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Wow 5.38 per can? They should have it at Lowes for like 2 something
> I saw that you're using the blue cans....everyone I seen use the red can. The blue cans are more exspensive.
> At my Lowe's here in Austell, GA(beside Atlanta) they have the black spray foam(pond foam) over at the pond stuff at the pumps. Might wanna check there.
> 
> I love this thread so far. I've been reading every bit of it.
> I like your personality man. Reminds me of the people back home.
> I'm from Bristol, VA/TN. I've been to the Kingsport skatepark many times.
> People around Atlanta are rude and have no personality or sense of humor lol.
> I'm happy to see someone from the Tri-Cities here on the board
> I can't wait to finish this thread.
> I wish people would hook me up with extra plants lol.
> I'm about to do a 29 gallon tank and I barely have any plants.
> Looking good so far and now back to your thread
> 
> -Brandon


Are you high?


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

johnyrocks said:


> Are you high?


What in the world id that suppose to mean?


----------



## Zoomie

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Wow 5.38 per can? They should have it at Lowes for like 2 something
> I saw that you're using the blue cans....everyone I seen use the red can. The blue cans are more exspensive.
> At my Lowe's here in Austell, GA(beside Atlanta) they have the black spray foam(pond foam) over at the pond stuff at the pumps. Might wanna check there.
> 
> I love this thread so far. I've been reading every bit of it.
> I like your personality man. Reminds me of the people back home.
> I'm from Bristol, VA/TN. I've been to the Kingsport skatepark many times.
> People around Atlanta are rude and have no personality or sense of humor lol.
> I'm happy to see someone from the Tri-Cities here on the board
> I can't wait to finish this thread.
> I wish people would hook me up with extra plants lol.
> I'm about to do a 29 gallon tank and I barely have any plants.
> Looking good so far and now back to your thread
> 
> -Brandon


Brandon, I grabbed the blue cans because they expland less. From some of the build threads I read, the door and window cracks stuff expands less giving you more control as you build. I thought I also read that a few experienced some pull-back from the red cans due to shrinkage. Yep, 5.38 here per can.

Glad you're enjoying the thread. I have has a lot of fun with it so far. While we are heading towards the tail end of the build, there are still a few significant things to do. Fans, install the Mist King system, And install a Herpkeeper to give me a head start on any emergencies and notify me of any potential heat issues or electricity failure via text/email. I still havent finalized design for this stuff, so this thread will likely remain open for the next couple of weeks. It is also been compounded by the fact that all three of the above systems need to tie in to the not-yet-built Terribilis tank.

MY wife and I moved to Kingsport 3 years ago. We met more nice people in three days than we had in the previous 3 years! This whole area Bristol/Kingsport/JC is a fantastic lace to live. When a stranger asks you how your day is, they really expect an answer ! 

Plants are expensive and will put the hurt on you. I think I have spent a little over 200.00 including a shipment that will arive Wednesday.

I suspect that the rude people you mentioned in Atlanta are not froggers. I have read through a number of posts from those guys on the SouthEast regional section and they seem like great folks.

I said this to say that you need to get to know some of those folks and let them know that you are tight on cash and humbly begging clippings. I bet that a number of the club members help you out.

If you're ever back in the area run me down via PM. You're more than welcome to stop by.


----------



## Zoomie

JohnnyRocks, that right there is just "Kingsport friendly!"


----------



## Zoomie

Yesterday, was a long, fun, frog and frog people filled day! I got the wife up at 5:30AM which was no easy feat. She is not a fan of 5:30am unless she is meandering in fom the night before. I sent my mighty dog Jax in to wake her up as she won't take a swing at the dog. 

We ran in to Knoxville to meet Frogmanchu before he had to take off for work. Frog has got a bunch of things going on right now with a hectic schedule and was forced to downsize his collection just a bit. I purchased his breeding pair of Leucs. It was kind of a happy/sad moment. I felt bad that FM was had to let them go, but was ecstatic to obtain a pair that had only recently started breeding. They are gorgeous and clearly very well cared for. Big Momma looks like she is gravid........or is very fond of bacon double cheeseburgers.

We then ran over to Lisa's. I wanted Mrs. Zoomie to meet her and see all of non-frog critters as well as her pond and garden. The next thing I knew we were doing egg checks and Lisa had Mrs. Zoomie sucking up freshly hatched Giant Orange tads and dropping them in to a tad cup while I recorded info on each sticker. Mrs. Zoomie had a blast and is now praying for tads for us ! lol

We had a fantastic meal together and yakked about life. At some point in the afternoon, the ladies decided that some corn squeezins were in order. I was DD so I was forced to behave.

I also spent a bunch of time in Lisa's frog room again really studying tank design. Her water features are to-die-for and the frogs are always in them. In the end, I think I managed to steal some really good ideas for the Teribilis tank.

We got the Leucs home in and in to Tank #2 about 6:30 last night. They initially ran to the back of the tank but an hour later they were both out chasing a light meal of Melanos that I placed in the tank. They explored a bit and then settled in to the love shack. I don't think it was for hanky panky so much as cover and concealment...a place where they felt safe.

Fortunately, Lisa hooked me up with everything we need in the event that eggs do show up. We're ready just in case we get lucky, or more accurately, that the Leucs get lucky!

Today, I am going to try and finalize design for Mist King, fans and HerpKeeper. I need to get a jig built for the glass lids in order to get holes drilled, as well as getting a second set of glass lids cut.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> Brandon, I grabbed the blue cans because they expland less. From some of the build threads I read, the door and window cracks stuff expands less giving you more control as you build. I thought I also read that a few experienced some pull-back from the red cans due to shrinkage. Yep, 5.38 here per can.
> 
> Glad you're enjoying the thread. I have has a lot of fun with it so far. While we are heading towards the tail end of the build, there are still a few significant things to do. Fans, install the Mist King system, And install a Herpkeeper to give me a head start on any emergencies and notify me of any potential heat issues or electricity failure via text/email. I still havent finalized design for this stuff, so this thread will likely remain open for the next couple of weeks. It is also been compounded by the fact that all three of the above systems need to tie in to the not-yet-built Terribilis tank.
> 
> MY wife and I moved to Kingsport 3 years ago. We met more nice people in three days than we had in the previous 3 years! This whole area Bristol/Kingsport/JC is a fantastic lace to live. When a stranger asks you how your day is, they really expect an answer !
> 
> Plants are expensive and will put the hurt on you. I think I have spent a little over 200.00 including a shipment that will arive Wednesday.
> 
> I suspect that the rude people you mentioned in Atlanta are not froggers. I have read through a number of posts from those guys on the SouthEast regional section and they seem like great folks.
> 
> I said this to say that you need to get to know some of those folks and let them know that you are tight on cash and humbly begging clippings. I bet that a number of the club members help you out.
> 
> If you're ever back in the area run me down via PM. You're more than welcome to stop by.


Yeah I hated it there when I lived there and was looking for any way out.
Locals have a nickname for Bristol, BristHell.
I found out tho once living in Louisville and now next to Atlanta how easy I had it back home in a small city and I'm really starting to miss it.
Kingsport is a really nice area. Tennessee side looks way better than Virginia side.
I'm struggling right now to keep my family together but if it doesn't work I'm most likely gonna be moving back. I was hoping to pay off the house and sell it and move back anyway. Only got like $7,000 left on the house.
Sorry to get off topic lol

I'm a n00b at this too. I have only made one tank so far.
I'm most likely gonna use the cheaper stuff and just carve it down and shape it the way I want it. I can get almost 4 cans of the cheap GS vs 2 cans of the blue GS.
A link to it is in my signature below. Check it out and let me know what you think.
It's rather simple and not may plants but I plan to change that one I put my gecko in that and the basking bulb for the anoles isn't needed. The basking bulb will make the plants a bit crispy lol


----------



## WONTON SALLY

zoomie, any new pics from lisa's or did you put them in the hobbyist thread?


----------



## Zoomie

I didn't take any pics this go-round. It was a social visit for the most part. I'll be going back for froggy chores in the near future. I'll document the visit then.


----------



## chesney

I love your growing signature line John! We also need pictures of the new guys


----------



## Zoomie

I'm trying today. I'm working on the milk jug trick to see if that will work.

Giddy about the frogs. Cory has been spending more time in the frog room today than I have and I was in there for a while!


----------



## Zoomie

So I am late with the updates on the rack so far.

Here is a pic of the rack, pre-electronics and Mist King. Auratus on the left and Leaucs on the right. I was really hoping to keep my fly cultures up on the top shelf but temp gun reads 83 degrees at the end of light cycle.

The bucket level shelf is where the Terribilis tank will be housed. I have one short shelf at the bottom that cant be seen. The Mist King pump and PCM 4 for the Reefkeeper will be stashed there.










Tank 1










Tank 2










Off to the right is my FF, Spring and Iso cultures.










The fly cultures with Josh's media are producing nicely. Now running a dual test for the next 6 weeks between Joshs and Superfly.


----------



## johnyrocks

Hey Zoomie, can you post a dual FTS without the fogged up glass and without flash on? Thanks


----------



## Zoomie

Sure, let me run down my tripod.


----------



## Zoomie

Camera is not worth a crap. This is about the best I can do:

Tank 2/Leucs










Tank 1/Auratus


----------



## johnyrocks

Zoomie said:


> Camera is not worth a crap. This is about the best I can do:
> 
> Tank 2/Leucs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank 1/Auratus


Those are really nice pictures! Shame on you lol! But really, the tank is looking a million times better than it did! I really like all the plants. i can't wait until it fills up even more!


----------



## Zoomie

Thank you. 

They still aren't there yet. I have some plants coming Wednesday. We'll see what we can do with those.


----------



## MA70Snowman

very nicely done mate! Love how they turned out. And great choice w/ the luecs. Hoenstly I have 5 diff species and my luecs are probably my favorite, they seem to have their own personality and are not shy by any means. As I type this my girl is sitting on top of her brom staring at me lol. 

Might've missed this but hows your humidity? My same size Exo I can't maintain above 60%. Granted I have an interior fan that might be messing with my system, and all I did was place 2 sheets of plexi over the screening on top.


----------



## Zoomie

Thank you ! Now that I have a very basic understanding of doing these things, I am really hoping I can step up for the 36 x 18 x18.

I too love the Leucs. I have been really lucky that I haven't gotten all wrapped up in the rare thing. I am really enjoying both these species. 

Humidity is staying between 87 and 91%. I'm in E Tennessee and we have had very high humidity which just isn't normal. House is kept year round at 70 degrees.

Right now, I have removed the screen tops and replaced them with a piece of 1/8 inch glass; however, it does not seat in the back. I failed to take the hinge bodies in the front lip under consideration. I then taped all gaps temporarily with electrical tape.

Sooooo, I purchased two additional pieces of glass so that it sits flush in the top lip. I have to drill holes for the Mist King, fan wiring and Reef Keeper probe and it will be nice to leave the current ones on while I complete work.

If you want to raise your humidity, completely tape your top to the screen. You may even have to seal the gap where the screen frame meets the lip. If there is the slightest gap, it will be impossible to keep it high without misting 5-6 per day.

Remember, this has been my experience and I am new. Still, I bet if you seal at minimum three sides of that top and mist the heck out of the tank, you're humidity will come right up and remain stable within a couple of percentage points with a simple twice per day misting.


----------



## Chunky

Zoomie said:


> Thank you ! Now that I have a very basic understanding of doing these things, I am really hoping I can step up for the 36 x 18 x18.
> 
> I too love the Leucs. I have been really lucky that I haven't gotten all wrapped up in the rare thing. I am really enjoying both these species.
> 
> Humidity is staying between 87 and 91%. I'm in E Tennessee and we have had very high humidity which just isn't normal. House is kept year round at 70 degrees.
> 
> Right now, I have removed the screen tops and replaced them with a piece of 1/8 inch glass; however, it does not seat in the back. I failed to take the hinge bodies in the front lip under consideration. I then taped all gaps temporarily with electrical tape.
> 
> Sooooo, I purchased two additional pieces of glass so that it sits flush in the top lip. I have to drill holes for the Mist King, fan wiring and Reef Keeper probe and it will be nice to leave the current ones on while I complete work.
> 
> If you want to raise your humidity, completely tape your top to the screen. You may even have to seal the gap where the screen frame meets the lip. If there is the slightest gap, it will be impossible to keep it high without misting 5-6 per day.
> 
> Remember, this has been my experience and I am new. Still, I bet if you seal at minimum three sides of that top and mist the heck out of the tank, you're humidity will come right up and remain stable within a couple of percentage points with a simple twice per day misting.


When you drill the holes, make sure to remove the glass top because there will be glass powder on EVERYTHING when drilling, and if your frogs cut themselves on the glass shards, it could lead to a serious and probably lethal bacterial infection. Also, I am very confused. Where you live you're saying you have high humidity, but if there is a tiny little gap you will experience major humidity loss? Here in Colorado it's rather dry and I keep my humidity up 80% misting 2 times a day and I have a 1 inch vent. I'm very confused. If you could please provide more insight, that would help. Thanks!


----------



## Zoomie

For the glass issue, I have two complete glass sets for each tank. This allows me to work on the tops and take my time. I would never drill a glass top on an occupied. Scares the crap out of me even talking about it. 

To be clear, I know that you were just trying to protect the frogs and prevent me from experiencing potential heartache so I do appreciate the heads up. 

Sorry, humidity has been ridiculous here for the last two weeks. Normally, we have drier mountain like weather. 

My comment regarding sealing the tank lid was based solely on my personal experience, nothing more. 

Sorry for the confusion. I hope this clarifies my comments.


----------



## Dew

Zoomie, one word, sweet! I love these tanks. I hope since you must rebuild one, that it comes out even better! (Is that possible?


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> Camera is not worth a crap. This is about the best I can do:
> 
> Tank 2/Leucs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tank 1/Auratus


Wow thos look really good. The Auratus tank is my fav, probably due to it having so many plants. IMO I wouldn't put anymore plants in that one except for some vines and maybe a cryptanthus in the top left would look awesome. 
The Leucs tank could use more plants..just maybe one more brom in the top left next to that cryptanthus and some vines.
That background looks nice I wouldn't cover it too much but that's just me lol

Looks great tho. Did you use bio vines on the background or did you make your own?


----------



## Zoomie

Dew said:


> Zoomie, one word, sweet! I love these tanks. I hope since you must rebuild one, that it comes out even better! (Is that possible?


Dew, thank you.

I was never a huge fan of the second tank's design. I think that I sucked up too much floor space, although the male seems to enjoy running around off of the floor. I am going to try and rebuild it differently this go-round; however, I will use less cork and over-plant, removing plants as they grow so that I don't choke out the Leucs.


----------



## Zoomie

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Wow thos look really good. The Auratus tank is my fav, probably due to it having so many plants. IMO I wouldn't put anymore plants in that one except for some vines and maybe a cryptanthus in the top left would look awesome.
> The Leucs tank could use more plants..just maybe one more brom in the top left next to that cryptanthus and some vines.
> That background looks nice I wouldn't cover it too much but that's just me lol
> 
> Looks great tho. Did you use bio vines on the background or did you make your own?


I too like the Auratus tank. Right now the design is working as the Auratus are all froglets. I will likely have to remove and trim plants as they get older to protect open floor space.

The vines are from Exo. Since I was new to building tanks, I decided to try and keep it simple in case it came out horrible. That way I could chuck the backgrounds and re-do without having to chip Great Stuff out of the tank.


----------



## Zoomie

For those of you that are curious, the Leuc tank experienced a bottom seal failure yesterday, dumping water down the back wall and in to an electric socket. You can read my venting tirade here:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/71576-dear-exo-terra.html

Instead of drilling glass for the Mist King and RK, I instead had to relocate the Leucs to a large Sterilite and completely rip the tank apart. All moisutre was wiped out and fan has been running in it all night to ensure that it is bone dry this morning. I will re-silicone, allow it to cure, and fill it up with water again to test before putting it all back together.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

zoomie sucks to hear that, but be glad it's now and not 4months down the road after the tank is established.


----------



## Dew

Zoomie said:


> For those of you that are curious, the Leuc tank experienced a bottom seal failure yesterday, dumping water down the back wall and in to an electric socket. You can read my venting tirade here:
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/71576-dear-exo-terra.html
> 
> Instead of drilling glass for the Mist King and RK, I instead had to relocate the Leucs to a large Sterilite and completely rip the tank apart. All moisutre was wiped out and fan has been running in it all night to ensure that it is bone dry this morning. I will re-silicone, allow it to cure, and fill it up with water again to test before putting it all back together.


Make sure to go crazy with silicone, in one of my dumpy tanks I had to re seal it and I just spread a little bit and it still leaked. It would be cool if with the second tank you find a piece of wood like in the first tank.


----------



## Zoomie

Dew, I am not shy with Silicone. I completely dried out the tank, prepped the area with alcohol and made sure it evaporated, then re-did it this morning. I slapped a fan in there and will not even attempt to test with water until it's cured.

I am going to hit Repticon in Charlotte this weekend. Hopefully someone woill have some nice wood pieces.


----------



## Kagekiki

HEY zoomie mind posting a pic of the glass lid you had done for those tanks trying to get ideas for mine and kinda getting stumped here and would love to get some insight and also have a picture for the glass guys down the street from me to get a good ideas of the cuts i need.


----------



## Zoomie

Sure, I'll take some pics this evening. It is a very unexciting square piece of glass. 

From my research, there are a couple of ways to do it. You can do it by modifying the top, or by just completely removing the top and setting a piece of glass in.


----------



## Molch

zoomie,

since your tanks are tall but your two species are mainly ground dwellers, do you find that they use the vertical space available? Or do they stay at ground level?

I'm asking because I got an exo 18x18x24 as well. I was originally thinking tree frogs, but after sufring here I think I'm coming down with dart frog fever...would tincs/azureus be happy in that shape tank as well?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

that's what i have is a 18x18x24 and all is good.


----------



## Zoomie

Molch said:


> zoomie,
> 
> since your tanks are tall but your two species are mainly ground dwellers, do you find that they use the vertical space available? Or do they stay at ground level?
> 
> I'm asking because I got an exo 18x18x24 as well. I was originally thinking tree frogs, but after sufring here I think I'm coming down with dart frog fever...would tincs/azureus be happy in that shape tank as well?


I believe it to be a good/satisfactory tank to house a pair for a number (but not all) of tinc species. Some of the larger species I avoided in spite of my love for them i.e.Patricia, Giant Orange, Regina, Powder Blues, and others.

It has been said here, by froggers way smarter than me, that 'terrestrial" means within 3 feet of the ground. 

The Auratus street gang I have don't venture up more than about 8 inches off of the floor and then, only because they are going after a bug. My Leucs however, climb a lot and even enjoy sleeping at the very top of the tank regularly.

The short answer is that it is a great sized tank for a number of smaller tinc species. Avoid any corn fed tincs known to be saddled with kankles and their mothers thighs. If you factor in sound tank design as well as adding easy access to terraces or other high spots, the frogs will likely use them.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> My Leucs however, climb a lot and even enjoy sleeping at the very top of the tank regularly.
> 
> 
> 
> how's the 5 doing in the tank?
Click to expand...


----------



## Molch

thanks Zoomie; now you got me pregnant with many plans and ideas and I'm ready to give birth  I've gone and ordered plants and other stuff...

say, where does one get Great Stuff foam, and are there different versions of the stuff? I wouldn't want to accidentally get the frog-killing flavor...




Zoomie said:


> Avoid any corn fed tincs known to be saddled with kankles and their mothers thighs.


yeah...I have no idea what that means, exactly, but it's pretty durn funny


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Molch said:


> say, where does one get Great Stuff foam, and are there different versions of the stuff? I wouldn't want to accidentally get the frog-killing flavor...


get it HD or lowes


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Molch said:


> thanks Zoomie; now you got me pregnant with many plans and ideas and I'm ready to give birth  I've gone and ordered plants and other stuff...
> 
> say, where does one get Great Stuff foam, and are there different versions of the stuff? I wouldn't want to accidentally get the frog-killing flavor...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah...I have no idea what that means, exactly, but it's pretty durn funny


There is the red one and the blue...I've heard the blue GS is preferred but it is $5 a can vs the red can wich is a bit over $2 a can.
Just make sure you get some brown GE I silicone 
I made the mistake of using slear and I can see the foam :/


----------



## Molch

thanks Sally and Dragon

...one more stupid question before I hijack zoomie's thread:

is this brown GE I silicone a hardware store brand? I so, is it aquarium safe for sure?


----------



## Zoomie

The GE 1 Silicone is frog safe. If it wasn't, 75% of the frogs owned by memebers here would not be of this world. It's been tested in the frog community extensvely.

And you're not thread hijacking at all. The purpose of this thread was for EVERYONE to swap info and ask questions.

Corn-fed is something I heard when referenced something big. It was from a friend of mine that raised beef.

Kankle= When a knee meets an ankle with no leg leg in the middle. Kankle. Tree trunk legs.

So big frog with big thighs and ankles. I'll take a pic of LIsa's Sumo Powder Blue female. She is beast. It will make sense when you see the pic.


----------



## Molch

Zoomie said:


> And you're not thread hijacking at all. The purpose of this thread was for EVERYONE to swap info and ask questions.


ah - then here's one more:

anyone know an online vendor for the GE I silicone? I googled and all I get is GE II, pages and pages of it, but no GE I...

kankles, eh? huaahaa :rofl


----------



## Molch

oh...and which Great Stuff to get? My goodness, there's about a ton of them...


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Molch said:


> oh...and which Great Stuff to get? My goodness, there's about a ton of them...


I've noticed most use the blue can for large gaps and cracks....
I bought the red cans...
I'm curious as to what the difference is

I'm pretty sure this is the one Zoomie and everyone else is using...
http://www.amazon.com/Dow-Chemical-Foamsealant-175437-Insulation/dp/B0002YX97K/ref=sr_1_13?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1312801158&sr=1-13


----------



## dartboard

If you can afford it, get the green can. All of the other cans come with yellow foam, burge green can has black foam so you don't have to worry about yellow showing through.


----------



## Zoomie

Sorry about being so quiet. Lots going on with the tanks and had to make some decisions. I have most of it sorted out.

I did get the Leuc tank put back together and the Leucs back in to Tank 2. I completely redesigned it to open up more floor space. Give me a couple of days to allow the Leucs to settle and then I'll take an open door picture of the new set up. It is far more functional than good looking. While it isn't an eye sore, it won't be winning any viv of the month contests.

To answer WontonSally's question back a few posts regarding the wild gang of Auratus in Tank # 1. They are doing fantastic. They eat like pigs. Last night I watched them running amuck chasing down FF's. They are still coming in to color and one of them looks like it is turning into a turquise blue. Really really pretty.

They are growing so quickly that I decided last night that I really do need to move them to a bigger tank BEFORE any issues develop. It is the responsible thing to do. So, due to a number of really cool opportunities, changing my game plan a bit.

First, Mrs Zoomie has given the thumb up (I had to squint to ensure it wasn't a different digit) on a 90 in the living room at some point in the 60 days or so. That is 48 x 24 x 24 of pure design sexiness. We have to push some furniture around and neither one of us is ready to tackle that project just yet.

In addition, a huge potential opportunity is developing for us to obtain our choice between a proven breeding pair of Azureus or a proven breeding pair of Bakhuis Mountains. Both make my heart go pitter patter. This is a very tough choice. Curious to see what everyone's thoughts are. In the end, I think that Mrs Zoomie should make the final call for the choice.

So, with all of this going on, the plan is to grab the/a 50 gal that goes in the rack. The 5 Auratus will be moved down in to it and can grow out in a more favorable environment with double the floorspace to frolic. The Exo (Tank 1) will be used to house either the pair of Auzureus or the Bakhuis Mountains. The Orange Terribilis will get the nod for the living room 90 gallon. 

Back to the builds. Last night at Lowes, a guy broke 7 different pieces of glass trying to cut pieces since I elected to do yet another top design change. I watched him very carefully. Frankly, I think that they received a horrible batch of glass. I finally asked him to cut me two pieces of Lexan for a temporary fix so I can get the Mist king up and running. I will find a small glass shop today to solve my top problems for good.

I should be able to get the Mist King up and running tonight. I will take pics of the process so everyone can get a peek.


----------



## dartboard

That's it, I am going to have my wife read this post. I have found nothing works better than saying "look what so and so's wife is letting him do!"

Although it obviously isn't an issue with you zoomie, I have found some people when they have different choices in frogs go for the more rare, or less common species for that reason only. While the azureus may be one of the most common, there is nothing like that amazing blue color they have. You have yellow and black frogs, and green and bronze frogs, and you are going to get orange ones, so it might loo book real neat to get the blue ones. I bet that is what your wife will pick anyway! After that all you would need is a red frog and a purple frog and you would have the 6 main colors!


----------



## deboardfam

48x24x24 I believe is a 120g... Most 90s are 48x18x24... so... even better 

Cant wait to see it built. 

Thanks for the derail on the great stuff as well.. thinking of tackling my first great stuff


----------



## Zoomie

I have tried really really hard to stay away from the 'chasing rare' rare stuff. I have try to stay focused on finding acceptable species for the tanks I have, and the choosing those which I think I will enjoy most. This can be painful as I have had to pass up Patricias, Giant Oranges, Cits due to frog size. THe bottom line is that if I end up with a species of frogs that just never get comfortable enough to breed, that's OK as I just enjoy caring for them.

My wife and I have been married for a quite a while. She has found it easier to embrace my passions and discuss some ground rules versus knock-down drag outs. 

I have never brought up the tank in living room. That perplexed her as she couldnt figure out why I was content to set up a rack. 

The bottom line is that Mrs Zoomie loves the little guys. How can help but to smile whenever you see them. She shows all of her friends when they come over. 

In then end, we should have the rack and a nice display tank in the living room. More than enough to maintain our interest without it getting overwhelming.

I too think that Mrs Zoomie will choose the Azureus. Since she has been so supportive, she deserves to make the call.

As for dealing with the color red, that is a tricky one. I have had to cover my eyes to avoid pining for Bastis. No red for me right now.


----------



## BethInAK

dartboard said:


> That's it, I am going to have my wife read this post. I have found nothing works better than saying "look what so and so's wife is letting him do!"


does this work for husbands, I wonder?

I'm hoping that if I choose a frog that is blue my husband will allow some. I have four tanks and two geckos, under the guise that the geckos will grow into the bigger tanks (true). But then, I'll have two EMPTY tanks, smaller ones, that might be good for small PDF's. 

If I show him pictures of blue frogs, I think he might go for it.


----------



## Zoomie

BethInAK said:


> does this work for husbands, I wonder?
> 
> I'm hoping that if I choose a frog that is blue my husband will allow some. I have four tanks and two geckos, under the guise that the geckos will grow into the bigger tanks (true). But then, I'll have two EMPTY tanks, smaller ones, that might be good for small PDF's.
> 
> If I show him pictures of blue frogs, I think he might go for it.


It wouldn't hurt to try and get him to help choose if he shows even the slightest interest. We men are weird though. If we aren't interested, we will blow it off faster than asking us to help choose the material for a valance.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> We men are weird though. If we aren't interested, we will blow it off faster than asking us to help choose the material for a valance.


dude, all too classic. as you been there done that!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> dude, all too classic. as you been there done that!!!!!!!!!!!


No man even knows what a valance is unless his wife or girlfriend has forced it upon him!


----------



## dartboard

Just googled it. I'm sure if it was the one in your frog room you would want to give your opinion. "oh come on honey, you think they want to stare at that sorry pattern all day? Go stick it in the kids room, I don't care what they're forced to look at."


----------



## BethInAK

Zoomie said:


> It wouldn't hurt to try and get him to help choose if he shows even the slightest interest. We men are weird though. If we aren't interested, we will blow it off faster than asking us to help choose the material for a valance.



HAHA!


I only wish my husband didn't care about the material for the valance. Sadly, I chose the only man in the state of Alaska who thinks he should help decorate. I learned the hard way that when you give the other person veto power, they have all the power. I now have traditional furniture and heavy brown drapes. 

I'm getting frogs dammit.


----------



## BethInAK

lol I just asked Mrs Bethinak (who is a CARPENTER) what a valance is and he says " its a header used for lights or curtains - a decorative piece at the top"

So, do I need to worry about his orientation?

He does love musicals.

hm.


He does not think we "need fruit flies". Whatever.


----------



## dartboard

Um beth, in the most g rated waypossible I think you know better than anyone his orientation!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie, what's the best distance to measure things with the I/R temp gun?


----------



## Zoomie

*Dartboard* There will be no valances in the frog room. Just as there are no tassles in a man cave. Silly of you to even imply such a thing.

*BethinAK* I wouldn't worry about your man. He is aware of valances because of being a carpenter. There is no reason to believe that he has any interest in batting for the other team. Still, if he starts collecting Cher records or begins putting together an exact replica of Tim Currie's outfit in The Rocky Horror Picture Show, I would be mildly concerned. 

Giving a man veto power when decorating virtually guarantees that you will have an ugly recliner and a stripper pole in your home. Surely you knew this.


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> Zoomie, what's the best distance to measure things with the I/R temp gun?


As close as possible, I suspect. I don't know if there is an optimal distance.


----------



## Zoomie

Well, we had yet another false start last night with the Mist King. I failed to grab an adapter for for drill bits. I may or may not have gone straight to F word land.

After all that talk of additional tanks yesterday, somehow there was a subtle misunderstanding between Mrs. Zoomie and I. She (misguided as she can be sometimes) was under the impression that the 50 Gal for the Auratus was going in the living room and that just the two Exos would be on the rack in the frog room. Silly wabbit. She then said that she should have suspected that something was amiss when I so generously agreed to delay getting the orange Terribilis. The comment of the evening was when she said," you baited me using those cute little froggy eyes in order to drag a forth tank in to the house." My respsonse? "That's how I roll!"

Actually, she agreed that it would be easier on our checkbook if we just grab a 50 today and take our time moving furniture around for the 90. The Terribilis tank is going to be a money sink.

The other issue that arose was when I showing her pics of tincs for her to pick our next breeding pair. She saw some Pumilio and said that she really really liked them. Easy chica! I had to tell her simmmer down now!

I will grab a 50 at lunch and then stop by storage and grab the drill bit adapter. Hopefully I'll have the MK up and running tonight. 

On the FF front, my fruit fly production was a touch low on one of my culture cups. I may have not put enough FF in orginally to cause a nice boom. I'll keep my Hydeis going until I am sure that this was an isolated incident.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> As close as possible, I suspect. I don't know if there is an optimal distance.


 
i will post the directions in a few.


----------



## Kagekiki

hey umm still waiting on those pics of the top


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Kagekiki said:


> hey umm still waiting on those pics of the top


pics of what top?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

hey zoomie can you answer this for me?

Zommie, this makes my brain hurt when i read it, can you decipher this encrypted message?


----------



## BethInAK

oh goodness, this gives me a headache too but it should be easy for someone of your technical capability. 

my understanding of what that says is that the thing you are measuring the heat of should be as big as 1/8th of the distance from the thing that the gun is. 

so it says if you are measuring 15 cm away, it should be at least 2 cm.
if its 50 cms away the object should be at least 6.3 cm's
and if 100 cm away it should be at least 12.5 cms.

At least, thats what I think it means.

What the heck kind of Canadian metric system thermometer is that thing!


----------



## Zoomie

Pretty simple I think. At 8:1, If you're measuring from 8 inches away, the I/R is going to provide the average temp for an area one inch in diameter. Close enough for government work.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

BethInAK said:


> oh goodness, this gives me a headache too but it should be easy for someone of your technical capability.
> 
> my understanding of what that says is that the thing you are measuring the heat of should be as big as 1/8th of the distance from the thing that the gun is.
> 
> so it says if you are measuring 15 cm away, it should be at least 2 cm.
> if its 50 cms away the object should be at least 6.3 cm's
> and if 100 cm away it should be at least 12.5 cms.
> 
> At least, thats what I think it means.
> 
> What the heck kind of Canadian metric system thermometer is that thing!


if it's not inches it's like FRENCH to me!!!!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Pretty simple I think. At 8:1, If you're measuring from 8 inches away, the I/R is going to provide the average temp for an area one inch in diameter. Close enough for government work.


 
so if you are 16inches away it will measure a two inch spot?

which do you think is more ideal to measure 8inches away or 16inches?


----------



## frogfreak

BethInAK said:


> so it says if you are measuring 15 cm away, it should be at least 2 cm.
> if its 50 cms away the object should be at least 6.3 cm's
> and if 100 cm away it should be at least 12.5 cms.
> 
> 
> What the heck kind of Canadian metric system thermometer is that thing!


LMAO 

2.5 cm = 1 inch


----------



## Zoomie

Going to step away from this build thread to start a build thread on the 50. It's over in parts and contruction. Once I complete it, I will return to this one to finalize with The Mist King and Herp Keeper.


----------



## Zoomie

I had a couple of members ask me how my plants were doing. Thought I would post then/now shots.

This picture was taken 7/14/11:










I took this one last night, representing 40 days of growth. The lights are plain Jane Wally World Specials. 26/100 6500K Daylights.










Lost some reds in the Broms but they are starting to come back after readjusting from sunlight to the fakey kind. Lots of growth from them as well.

Token Leuc shot. This is the female. As you can see, she hasn't missed too many meals. She is clearly chasing one of Pumilo's scoobie snacks.:


----------



## dartboard

what do you mean adjusting from sunlight to fakey kind?


----------



## Zoomie

Most (not all) Broms that are sold to us are grown outside versus artificial tank lighting.


----------



## dartboard

Interesting.... So you are saying that initially the broms will lose color, but then rebound after some time back to good colors?


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## Zoomie

dartboard said:


> Interesting.... So you are saying that initially the broms will lose color, but then rebound after some time back to good colors?


No. I am saying that I believe that this is what happened in my case. My best guess as nothing else has changed.

I can say that they arrived nice and red, then went completely green, and now are coloring back up.


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## boabab95

Love the Asplenium nidus


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## Zoomie

boabab95 said:


> Love the Asplenium nidus


It is one of my favorites. Stunning color and I love the leaves.

The poor thing stays too wet which rots some of the leaves. I actually have to cover it when I mist to protect it. 

Fortunately, I will correct all of this as the remainder of my fan equipment and electronics for all of the tanks are coming in this week. With some air movement, it should be so much happier.


----------



## boabab95

Zoomie said:


> It is one of my favorites. Stunning color and I love the leaves.
> 
> The poor thing stays too wet which rots some of the leaves. I actually have to cover it when I mist to protect it.
> 
> Fortunately, I will correct all of this as the remainder of my fan equipment and electronics for all of the tanks are coming in this week. With some air movement, it should be so much happier.


Just be ready to remove it, they get HUGE! mine is already 3' across and it's still young...

hope you don't mind me posting this


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Fortunately, I will correct all of this as the remainder of my fan equipment and electronics for all of the tanks are coming in this week.


 
do tell on what you have coming?????


----------



## Zoomie

Two Fan controllers, 8 fans, a power supply to drive everything, and a micro pc case.

The two extenal bays will house the dual fan controllers. Right below those, I can mount the DA Herp Keeper unit. It should keep everything nice and neat as well as give me a single source of data/control. 

Oh I forgot that you are an E-geek Andy  and likely will want to know brands:

2 - Lamptron FC-6 Fan Controllers

8 - 40mm fans. They only push a hair over 4 cfm. 

1 - Logyscom 480D PSU

1 - Fractal Core 1000 BLR case 

I wil run two fans per tank on the Exos (simple push pull through external PVC with directional inputs and outs. 4 fans on the 50, broken up in to two zones.

I'll use the Herp Keeper to drive external fans over the light fixtures if temp reaches a certain point. At temp point B, tank lights go out and I get an email to my phone.

Took me way to long to figure all of this crap out. I get lost on anything past red and black. lol


----------



## Zoomie

boabab95 said:


> Just be ready to remove it, they get HUGE! mine is already 3' across and it's still young...
> 
> hope you don't mind me posting this


First, I dont mind a bit. Anyone can post anything on either of my build threads. While I know it irritates some, I have learned some really cool stuff while out on tangents. 

That plant is absolutely stunning! So you're saying that I wont have much luck pinching it back ?


----------



## boabab95

Zoomie said:


> First, I dont mind a bit. Anyone can post anything on either of my build threads. While I know it irritates some, I have learned some really cool stuff while out on tangents.
> 
> That plant is absolutely stunning! So you're saying that I wont have much luck pinching it back ?


pinching will definitely NOT work 

i have a pic of one I pinched back...ill see if i can find it....it basically went from split ends [A.n.'chrissy'] and actually reverted some how to what looks like the plant above [only much smaller]


----------



## Zoomie

boabab95 said:


> pinching will definitely NOT work
> 
> i have a pic of one I pinched back...ill see if i can find it....it basically went from split ends [A.n.'chrissy'] and actually reverted some how to what looks like the plant above [only much smaller]


OMG! Is that Lycopodium growing out of the bottom of that ? If so, please PM me your address so I can climb over your back fence in the middle of the night and clip a chunk. Oh and please don't shoot me. hahahaha


----------



## boabab95

Zoomie said:


> OMG! Is that Lycopodium growing out of the bottom of that ? If so, please PM me your address so I can climb over your back fence in the middle of the night and clip a chunk. Oh and please don't shoot me. hahahaha


Rhipsalis Pilocarpa...i WISH it was Lycopodium!!! hmm...maybe i should use that instead...

haha, it's illegal to carry guns [and shoot somebody on your property]...unless you wanna fight the RCMP and a moose?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Two Fan controllers, 8 fans, a power supply to drive everything, and a micro pc case.
> 
> The two extenal bays will house the dual fan controllers. Right below those, I can mount the DA Herp Keeper unit. It should keep everything nice and neat as well as give me a single source of data/control.
> 
> Oh I forgot that you are an E-geek Andy  and likely will want to know brands:
> 
> 2 - Lamptron FC-6 Fan Controllers
> 
> 8 - 40mm fans. They only push a hair over 4 cfm.
> 
> 1 - Logyscom 480D PSU
> 
> 1 - Fractal Core 1000 BLR case
> 
> I wil run two fans per tank on the Exos (simple push pull through external PVC with directional inputs and outs. 4 fans on the 50, broken up in to two zones.
> 
> I'll use the Herp Keeper to drive external fans over the light fixtures if temp reaches a certain point. At temp point B, tank lights go out and I get an email to my phone.
> 
> Took me way to long to figure all of this crap out. I get lost on anything past red and black. lol


and I thought i was a freaking computer dork.


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> and I thought i was a freaking computer dork.


HAHAHAHA!

In this case, my inner-geek wins for tank and frog health. First, Exo 1 seems to breathe better than Exo 2. I have no idea why. Second, the 50 Gallon has smaller lids that open meaning that there will be less fresh air transfer when feeding. Add in that I would like a couple of more orchids in the tank, air movement becomes critical.

Because of limited space, and coupled with the fact that I didn't want 8 different plugs for the fans, the easy thing to do was buy a cheapie psu to drive the controllers and fans. No one building PC's even uses the 480 PSU's any longer. You can get good ones for under 20.00.

Mounting the Herp Keeper unit on the face of the case allow all controllers to fit in the space of the Fractal case and take up very little room. If it comes together like I see it in my pea brain, it should be pretty cool. Or I could set the house on fire. We'll see !


----------



## Zoomie

boabab95 said:


> Rhipsalis Pilocarpa...i WISH it was Lycopodium!!! hmm...maybe i should use that instead...
> 
> haha, it's illegal to carry guns [and shoot somebody on your property]...unless you wanna fight the RCMP and a moose?


In the US we would never shoot a moose in the backyard. Just the local crackhead that goes by the name of Moose. 

Beautiful plants!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> HAHAHAHA!
> 
> In this case, my inner-geek wins for tank and frog health. First, Exo 1 seems to breathe better than Exo 2. I have no idea why. Second, the 50 Gallon has smaller lids that open meaning that there will be less fresh air transfer when feeding. Add in that I would like a couple of more orchids in the tank, air movement becomes critical.
> 
> Because of limited space, and coupled with the fact that I didn't want 8 different plugs for the fans, the easy thing to do was buy a cheapie psu to drive the controllers and fans. No one building PC's even uses the 480 PSU's any longer. You can get good ones for under 20.00.
> 
> Mounting the Herp Keeper unit on the face of the case allow all controllers to fit in the space of the Fractal case and take up very little room. If it comes together like I see it in my pea brain, it should be pretty cool. Or I could set the house on fire. We'll see !


i should be moved by the end of the year into the new house, once i buy the new frog rack i am going to HAVE TO BUILD A SMALL PC like you did thanks zoomie, but not really!!


----------



## Zoomie

You're welcome!

It's not even a PC. Just PSU driving fan controllers and fans with a bunch of Frankenstien wiring going in to the back. More of a PDF entertainment center.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> It's not even a PC. Just PSU driving fan controllers and fans with a bunch of Frankenstien wiring going in to the back. More of a PDF entertainment center.


for training purposes it's a PC.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> I took this one last night, representing 40 days of growth. The lights are plain Jane Wally World Specials. 26/100 6500K Daylights.


How many of them did you use?


----------



## Zoomie

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> How many of them did you use?


Um........one in each socket ! lol

If I understand the question correctly, it's an Exo hood so two bulbs total.


----------



## randa4

Zoomie said:


> Well that was interesting ! So Josh's media came in today. I wanted to run it and the Repashy to find my preference. With great confidence and the aire of a master frogger, I tapped the culture of Hydei until they fell to the bottom. I then opened the lid to tap a number of them in to the new culture. I may have even been revelling in my bug awesomeness.
> 
> It was at this particular moment that 50 of the little snots made like Michael Jordan AND JUMPED OUT OF THE CUP on to the kitchen counter. I freaked out! I was trying to get the lid back on both cultures. Bugs are running amuck. 4 or 5 had jet packs and simply flew off toward the living room.
> 
> Sure that they would start a local neighborhood plague, I went on a bug killing spree that would have made Black Flag hang their head in shame. I stomped, I stamped, I mashed. I executed with little regard for Hydei life.
> 
> While all this was going on, my wife heard the commotion and asked what was going on.
> 
> "Um hon........well........somehow, I'm not really sure..........a few bugs somehow escaped."
> 
> My wife asked, face locked in chilling stare while reaching for her broom that she liks to fly around the house from time to time, " how many is a few, MR ?"
> 
> I said (in voice of a six year old. Not sure what happened to the bass in my voice) " Um.......the ones running around or the flightless ones that in fact flew away?"
> 
> Mrs. Zoomie's love and affection for me is not exactly peaking at this particular moment.
> 
> Terrified, I went out on the porch to do the Melanos. I returned inside the house. Yes, I am glad I had the keys as Mrs Zoomie locked the door. I stomped in to the house, beat my chest like a gorilla, and decreed, " HA ! I didn't lose a single one. I am still in fact THE MAN"
> 
> As I stood there with my hands on my hips, unfazed by my wife's icy stare, a Hydei with jet pack landed right on my flippin nose!
> 
> Looks like Mrs. Zoomie gets to sprawl on the Tempurpedic tonight.


Zoomie,

This thread has been a joy to read and even though you may find my advice ancient history, it might be useful. When I get cultures that are blooming heavily, and I want to assess them, I strike the container on the kitchen counter once of twice. It drives all the ff's to the bottom of culture, and even confuses the ones with jetpacks so that they're not in the air. You have 1-2 seconds to check the culture, strike again if necessary. It's how I feed my pdf's. I put a light layer of the Repashy supplement in another 32 oz container, strike-open-tip culture into empty container-tap bottom (once or twice), and my empty is now full of ff's. Cap each. Swirl the new container around a few times until all ff's are coated. Then they are pretty much immobilized, and the jetpacks clogged up. I used a broad plastic soup spoon to gently scoop up the desired quantity and transfer to viv. I'm sure everyone has their own technique, just that this one prevents escapes (mostly).

Keep 'sippin! 

Mike in Helotes


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> Um........one in each socket ! lol
> 
> If I understand the question correctly, it's an Exo hood so two bulbs total.


Meh some of those hoods have 3 
But yeah I should have thought of that haha
It's been a rough past few days and my brain is scrambled -.-
Thanks for the help tho


----------



## Zoomie

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Meh some of those hoods have 3
> But yeah I should have thought of that haha
> It's been a rough past few days and my brain is scrambled -.-
> Thanks for the help tho


Just having some fun ! And you're right. I have seen the triples around as well as the doubles with MH's.

Ask as many questions as you want. We are all here to learn.


----------



## Zoomie

Had my first plant start to bloom in Exo # 1. Woohoo !


----------



## WONTON SALLY

crazy how it just happens, once one does seems like they all start to.


----------



## Zoomie

I hope so.

Since I have been swearing at the 50 for the last day or two, I am hooking a quick right and putting together a simple cuttings tank. My wife suggested that i put it out the living room under a large table we have with shelf. 

She is being really nice to me. Something is horribly wrong.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> She is being really nice to me. Something is horribly wrong.


 
you know it, she's going to hit you up for something


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> I hope so.
> 
> Since I have been swearing at the 50 for the last day or two, I am hooking a quick right and putting together a simple cuttings tank. My wife suggested that i put it out the living room under a large table we have with shelf.
> 
> She is being really nice to me. Something is horribly wrong.


lol is she normaly mean?

Why do you use such big drain holes....what are you using to drain with?


----------



## BethInAK

Zoomie said:


> She is being really nice to me. Something is horribly wrong.


LOL, she just likes the froggies.


----------



## Zoomie

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> lol is she normaly mean?
> 
> Why do you use such big drain holes....what are you using to drain with?



No she is not usually mean. I was pretending to be funny.

I use the big drains for ease sake. 1.5 inch is the smallest pvc diameter that has the flush drain plugs. It also fits flush within the false bottom making it easier to secure.


----------



## Zoomie

Here is an update of Exo #1. I moved a few around, trimmed some stuff back, and opened it up just a bit. This is the future home of the Bakhuis.


----------



## BethInAK

ABSOLUTELY GLORIOUS!!
you ARE an artist!!
Tell me what the plant on the bottom is with the white veined leaves and the funky red flowers is. I WANT.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Here is an update of Exo #1. I moved a few around, trimmed some stuff back, and opened it up just a bit. This is the future home of the Bakhuis.


looks picture perfect, anytime you want to get away from the wife swing by and plant my tanks!!!


----------



## Zoomie

Thanks to you both. 

I'm going to try and slap the ugly out of the Leuc tank. I hate to mess with it much as they are laying. I'll try and do just a bit without irritating them. The male continues to call daily which is music to my ears.


----------



## Neontra

Zoomie, let's get one thing straight. I hate you. I really do.

Your exos are just way too good, you're doing something to them, but I just can't put my oily finger on it.

They're growing fast, looking way too amazing, and just full out great. 

I will send you my tank, I wan't to to plant it. Your tanks are amazing Zoomie. Kudos, kudos, KUDOS!!!!


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> Thanks to you both.
> 
> I'm going to try and slap the ugly out of the Leuc tank. I hate to mess with it much as they are laying. I'll try and do just a bit without irritating them. The male continues to call daily which is music to my ears.


Ah what you could do is slap that cryptanthus in a box and send it to me haha
I love the the colors to it...looks black, red, brown, and pink. 
Do you know what type of crypt it is?


----------



## dartboard

Neontra said:


> Zoomie, let's get one thing straight. I hate you. I really do.
> 
> Your exos are just way too good, you're doing something to them, but I just can't put my oily finger on it.
> 
> They're growing fast, looking way too amazing, and just full out great.
> 
> I will send you my tank, I wan't to to plant it. Your tanks are amazing Zoomie. Kudos, kudos, KUDOS!!!!


Did zoomie make a duplicate account on here to praise himself?


----------



## Zoomie

Neontra said:


> Zoomie, let's get one thing straight. I hate you. I really do.
> 
> Your exos are just way too good, you're doing something to them, but I just can't put my oily finger on it.
> 
> They're growing fast, looking way too amazing, and just full out great.
> 
> I will send you my tank, I wan't to to plant it. Your tanks are amazing Zoomie. Kudos, kudos, KUDOS!!!!



Ooh, hate mail. My favorite. 

I got lucky with my first tank. Luck and lots of people here that helped me. Right plants, right placement,etc. 

My other tanks look like crap right now. Notice how I don't talk about the Leuc tank much other than the Leucs themselves? That's because it's hideous at best. 

I hope to fix it this weekend.


----------



## Zoomie

dartboard said:


> Did zoomie make a duplicate account on here to praise himself?


Actually, I give friends a dollar every time they say something nice.

So far I have only spent six bucks. I don't have a lot of friends. 

I am proud of my first tank. Sadly I am a one hit wonder as my other two are icky, especially the Leuc tank. 

I have got to fix it this weekend. It's driving me nuts.


----------



## Neontra

Zoomie, you could just give me your tanks, you know...


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> Zoomie, let's get one thing straight. I hate you. I really do.
> 
> Your exos are just way too good, you're doing something to them, but I just can't put my oily finger on it.
> 
> They're growing fast, looking way too amazing, and just full out great.
> 
> I will send you my tank, I want to to plant it. Your tanks are amazing Zoomie. Kudos, kudos, KUDOS!!!!


i agree, i think zoomie has a horticultural/agricultural background that he is not sharing with us, he might have even been an intern while at college at the herpatology DEPT and got to go to South America for two years while doing his under study, but i know Zoomie will DENY, DENY, DENY. let me know how the media goes as well good buddie!!!!!


----------



## Zoomie

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Ah what you could do is slap that cryptanthus in a box and send it to me haha
> I love the the colors to it...looks black, red, brown, and pink.
> Do you know what type of crypt it is?


I'll run down which Crip it is today for you Brandon. The colors you listed are correct.

Sadly, I did a poor job of recording each plant when I obtained it. Now I have to go back, research each, and take a pic for a photo dictionary of sorts.

I can save everyone a lot of trouble by suggesting that you start a log for frogs, bugs, and plants. Trying to remember plant names or when clutches were thrown just doesnt work.

I did pick up a new TetraFauna Reptohabit tank yesterday. It's going to house plant cuttings for now but can be used for froglets or even a QT tank in an emergency. Pretty decent dimensions at 30 x 12 x 16. Double sliding front door, and predrilled with a bottom drain and bulkhead. Too bad they don't make these in a larger size.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

TetraFauna Reptohabit 

AND YOU SAY YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR PLANT SPECIES JK.


----------



## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> TetraFauna Reptohabit
> 
> AND YOU SAY YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR PLANT SPECIES JK.


Haha. Isn't the terafauna just a regular AGA with a hole in it and a custom top?


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Zoomie said:


> I'll run down which Crip it is today for you Brandon. The colors you listed are correct.
> 
> Sadly, I did a poor job of recording each plant when I obtained it. Now I have to go back, research each, and take a pic for a photo dictionary of sorts.
> 
> I can save everyone a lot of trouble by suggesting that you start a log for frogs, bugs, and plants. Trying to remember plant names or when clutches were thrown just doesnt work.
> 
> I did pick up a new TetraFauna Reptohabit tank yesterday. It's going to house plant cuttings for now but can be used for froglets or even a QT tank in an emergency. Pretty decent dimensions at 30 x 12 x 16. Double sliding front door, and predrilled with a bottom drain and bulkhead. Too bad they don't make these in a larger size.


I like those new tanks by TetraFauna...
I plan to get one eventually. I could make such an easy paludarium with it.
Have the drain running to a sump then the return coming into the top to a waterfall.
I've been planning it in my head since I saw one lol.
Just replace the sceen top with glass...hell what I would do is cut all the grate off leaving a rim and silicone a sheet of glass so you can still use that nice lock top.
They did a good job on those tanks except for the price haha.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> I'll run down which Crip it is today for you Brandon. The colors you listed are correct.
> 
> Sadly, I did a poor job of recording each plant when I obtained it. Now I have to go back, research each, and take a pic for a photo dictionary of sorts.
> 
> I can save everyone a lot of trouble by suggesting that you start a log for frogs, bugs, and plants. Trying to remember plant names or when clutches were thrown just doesnt work.
> 
> I did pick up a new TetraFauna Reptohabit tank yesterday. It's going to house plant cuttings for now but can be used for froglets or even a QT tank in an emergency. Pretty decent dimensions at 30 x 12 x 16. Double sliding front door, and predrilled with a bottom drain and bulkhead. Too bad they don't make these in a larger size.


 
post a pic of the TetraFauna Reptohabit.


----------



## Zoomie

There's a pic of it on the 50 thread.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> There's a pic of it on the 50 thread.


 
yep, saw it after i posted the question.


----------



## Zoomie

Came home tonight and for the first time since I started all of this, I didn't have a project to get done. I just fed and sat down in a chair to check things out. Very relaxing!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

i see you have the bean beetles, how you like em?


----------



## Zoomie

The Leucs tear 'em up although I only feed them once in a while. The Auratus froglets are 50/50. Some attack while a few look at them and are unsure that they want to pick a fight.

I use the beetles as emergency back up in the event that the fly cultures were to crash. Not as necessary any longer with the bug farm.


----------



## eos

That's a nice view ya got there.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

have you noticed the beans crawling more or flying more in the tank?


----------



## Zoomie

Yes. Bean Bettles got a Hemi! They move quickly and do take flight for very short distances. Nothing like the reverse genetic mutations of Hydei or those God forsaken dirt gnats.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

my cousin has the beans, just don't want escaped flyers just yet.


----------

