# Darklands at IAD...



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I started writing this to post in the IAD picture thread, but decided to move it here as not to derail that thread...

OK, I'll be the bad guy and say what some are probably thinking... 18 Darklands for sale!? I know Tuss and he is a great guy, but do you think any concern was given to who these 18 or so Darklands went to? Not that I am old hat around here by any means, but when I started Darklands were the frog that everyone wanted but only the most experienced and best connected people got. Now I am sure there were at least some froggers that walked away from IAD with Darklands that have less than 6 month experience with frogs and these may have been their first pumilio or at best they only have experience they may have had Bastis or Cristos before. I think the Tuss's success of being skilled and patient enough to produce those numbers (these didn't just morph over the last 6 months...MUCH longer) was reflected on that table and instead of making people realize how good a frogger he is it made them think DARKLANDS ARE EASY... uh oh. I cannot and do not fault Tuss or any vendor for selling them, but honestly I am a little miffed that some people with loads of experience and frogging knowledge that would be successful with Darklands don't have em (because they didn't get to go to IAD) but some people with less than 6 months experience and possibly no pumilio experience but big pockets do. BTW, don't read this as jealousy... I have nothing to be jealous of in this situation if you know what I am saying. Honestly, Darklands are not the prettiest frog out there... many have a lot of gray or are nearly black, with the rare frogs actually having a nice all over blue to them and being attractive. People most often like and want them because of their rarity and status, not because they are the most beautiful frog. They may not realize it consciously, but that plays the biggest part in why Darklands are popular... they are rare and they serve as a badge of merit to a degree. Anyways... I am not mad at anyone who bought them and least of all I am not mad at Tuss for seling them, but I just think it kinda sucks to see good froggers passed over for years with these but some very new froggers are getting their hands on some of the most coveted frogs in the hobby because they went to IAD with big pockets... hopefully you all learn fast how to care for rare pumilio and are successful with em.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Stace - 

I see your point - and I partially agree. However - that is always the risk with selling these frogs at shows instead of through a waiting list. However - these frogs weren't for sale at a general reptile show - but an amphibian specialized show with some of the best froggers that there are in attendance.

While there may be some with giant pockets and no experience who want to buy these frogs for the mere "rarity" associated with them - I didn't really see that happening. I don't know all of the people who purchased them, but I know some - and they had plenty of experience. The other thing - there was a great number of these frogs that didn't get sold.

The frogs that Tuss was selling were either adults or almost there. There were no minuscule froglets for sale. If they ended up even in the hands of people with only "starter" pumilio experience - they will probably be just fine. When it comes time to breeding - they may (or may not) experience difficulty in breeding. Also - by selling at the show - Tuss was able to avoid the whole stress and risk issue of shipping frogs - which is always a positive.

Again - I am not trying to argue with you, just providing some counterpoints. The only thing between having people who want them for "status" buy them at a show or join a waiting list is the time it takes to get satisfaction. In the end, the result is the same.


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## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm sure you probably know this, but on Tuss' website there are a bunch extra that you can probably get...even though I know that's not the meaning of your post. Just an FYI. 

I share the same sentiments being one of those with 6 months of experience or less :lol: If I had one of those, I'd probably be so paranoid about their care that I wouldn't be able to enjoy them in the first place. :lol:


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

BTW how much were darklands, solartes, and isla colons going for?


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

I am glad to hear that some of you know Tuss as the sentiments of several at the IAD table where clearly that they didn't believe the frogs at that table were captive bred which disappointed me for several reasons.

Mostly that with all the drama here a month ago about what frogs would be allowed, if they thought these frogs were not CB then why let them stay on the table? 

Tuss seemed extremely nice and knowledgable to me and although it is so rare that it seems fishy, keeping those animals to such an age to sell them takes great restraint and respect for both the animals and those who will keep them.

Lastly, I know in my case I have worked with pumilio of one sort or another for over 15 years now. I don't however post alot about it and have tended to be a "lurker" on the board overall. 

Let's just not assume anything. Even though your intent is a good one, perception is everything and basically that post pee's in your cornflakes if you bought these frogs and are not one of the folks who is well known in the small community that we are. 

No one wants to see such a rare animal in the hands of an inexperience, "impluse" buyer but what is done is done and I think the best thing now is for everyone to offer all the advice they can to those working with these frogs to give them the best chance of being successful.

Cheers,

Chris


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I think overall I agree with pretty much all of the posts above, but the fact still remains that the possibility of a very rare and difficult to work with frog will be in the hands of a "beginner". My post wasn't directed at anyone in particular or anything like that, but more against what I was told from a few people about the people that "may" have gotten them. I think for the most part the right frogs ended up with the right froggers, but the opportunity was there. I am not trying to sound like an elitist or like I am condoning the "old boys club", just trying to pass along the idea that Darklands aren't for everybody and shouldn't be bought just because you can. Despite Tuss having 18 on his table, they are still a very rare and difficult morph and will take someone who can think outside of the box to have success with them. I'm all for the ones who got them doing well... hell, we need more of them. 
As far as concerns that they were WC... that is absurd. Like I said, I have talked to Tuss a few times and enough to know that his mentality with his frogs is "eh, if I sell em I sell em... if not I'll just keep em for a bit and someone will want em eventually" not "Ok, they're 4 months old now... I need to post them on every venue I can to get em sold". He has been saving these up for a long time... I talked to him several months ago and he said that he wasn't really letting anything go at that time. Tuss is an exceptional frogger that is not in this to make the fast buck by selling them as soon as they come of age, so the fact that there were many adults or near adult frogs does not surprise me at all. I'm glad, according to Oz, that these went to some good people and I am really happy that there are some left over for those that couldn't make it to IAD (like I said, not me because I am not I need...  ) that have been looking for a long while.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

UmbraSprite said:


> I am glad to hear that some of you know Tuss as the sentiments of several at the IAD table where clearly that they didn't believe the frogs at that table were captive bred which disappointed me for several reasons.
> 
> Mostly that with all the drama here a month ago about what frogs would be allowed, if they thought these frogs were not CB then why let them stay on the table?
> 
> ...


Chris,

I am really disappointed to see this post and to know this conversation was occuring about Tuss at the show. 

I can assure you, that Tuss has been actively breeding darklands for some time now. He was sharing positive results with Sarah and I long before other people made public posts on here or other lists/forums regarding their success with this pumilio. 

There are a large number of successful, quiet breeders through out the US who don't post every success or failure they have with their collection for the public to see. Personally, I know a few in Ohio & Kentucky who do not want the attention. Tuss is one of them. Tuss does keep his site up to date so anyone visiting it would have noticed his success long ago with the darklands. 

Tuss has worked hard with his pumilio - he has tried some methods others haven't and had great success. I hope that others who might have heard his frogs were imported read this post, and realize their mistakes.

Melissa



Tuss keeps a relatively low profile and we often do business together.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I am hoping Chris's post doesn't hijack the thread. Stace brought up a good point about selling high end frogs at shows.

I see your point, and for the most agree that this is a potential problem. 

I don't have a problem telling people they should wait for a frog, or to come back later after they have done some research to purchase frogs. 

Regardless of intentions, there will always be people with too much money who are going to buy the hot frogs. There isn't anything we can do about that. As vendors, you need to be able to tell your customer that they are not quite ready for such an advanced frog.

Melis


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## rjmarchisi (Feb 16, 2004)

I can see how posts like this really make vendors want to bring rare frogs to IAD to have for sale. Even with all of the sales between vendors before the doors open, these great frogs were available to the "general public" ( good or bad, however you read it ). I spoke with Tuss about his frogs and he genuinely cares for them and like Melissa said, keeps a low profile. 

So he has had great success with them and the restraint to hold them back for this show instead of selling them right as they are old enough. So he doesn't post about his success like that other guy ( Rich  ), maybe he doesn't want the attention. Good for him, people hearing of this will want to make them make the trip out to IAD to purchase frogs. Even though there were a bunch of people there, getting them there is the hard part. It might start with going there to buy frogs, but the real great thing is meeting everyone and talking frog with people that dont look at you funny.

Why not start a post called "For all those who bought Darklands at IAD" explain the care of them and let those people know what gems they have.

rob


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I was glad to hear that several people were picking up males to fill out their pairs.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Again...I felt really good about Tuss or I wouldn't have taken on the interest payments! I only purchased two but that alone will put me in the hole for some time. 

The comments made on my way out really bummed me out as I felt just like you that the way Tuss handled things presented an opportunity for animals that likely would not show up very often in such condition and age.

Sounds like there was some ignorance on the part of one person at the IAD table who must not have known Tuss.

I am certainly not doubting him as again I would not have taken such a big expense if I thought the animals weren't legit. 

Everyone speaking up for Tuss makes me fell MUCH better than I did leaving the IAD table on Saturday.

Thanks!


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Can somebody post his Tuss' website.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Fruitflies.net

How about we start a post where everyone who has experience with these animals proactively provides their information and experiences. I think this would be beneficial for those out there who may have purchased these frogs and now are a little intimidated to speak up here.

Chris


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

We have had a link to Tuss's site for years. 

Melis


http://www.fruitflies.net/


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

http://www.fruitflies.net

edit: :lol::lol::lol: A little trigger happy we all are today


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

You know what folks? The IAD Committee has some people on it that are suspicious of most everything. That's our job (when it comes to what is being sold).

Tuss' frogs were just fine. Beautiful and fine.

So let's keep the rhetoric and conjecture down here please.

s


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Yes, we are 




defaced said:


> http://www.fruitflies.net
> 
> edit: :lol::lol::lol: A little trigger happy we all are today


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

I dunno about that, I saw a new frogger who picked up a pair of choc. leucs and said they were to expensive for beginners, I know that my friend who shared a room with me bought them owns one of the businesses on the forum and has at least 15 years of experience. Tuss was taking the smaller froglets off of his table and placing them behind him on the floor. He was a great guy and I know for a fact that not many of the darklands sold. Because he had 18 to start with and had 14 maybe on sunday, so what does that say?? I think that people were there to make money and hardly any if any at all were worried about what type of experience you had with frogs. Most froggers should know what experience level the frogs they have take. I also think that posting some comments like this about someone should be brought to their attention so they can at least defend themselves. If you had a problem with the way tuss or anyone else was doing business you should have emailed him about it. I am not trying to start an argument.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Scott - thanks for the post. 

I consider Tuss a good friend and can honestly say I was po'd when I saw Chris's post. 



Scott said:


> You know what folks? The IAD Committee has some people on it that are suspicious of most everything. That's our job (when it comes to what is being sold).
> 
> Tuss' frogs were just fine. Beautiful and fine.
> 
> ...


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

One more time....

If I didn't believe in Tuss I wouldn't have made the purchase....

This was one person at the IAD table who clearly spoke out of turn and said the wrong thing. I think Scott really nailed it.

It was unfortunate that this is being read as someone doubting Tuss' credibility as the person speaking clearly did not know these came from him or at least did not know him well enough to make the comment he did.

Let's just let it lie with ....

1. The IAD is doing their best to make sure things are being done on the up and up.

2. Tuss clearly is a reputable and experienced frogger who has the best of intentions for the animals and those who keep them.

3. I was merely bringing this up to ease some of the stress I had from making a big purchase and having someone drop some doubt in the confidence I had in Tuss. Being as I had not met him prior to this I didn't know either way.

I really hope this doesn't discourage people like Tuss from continuing to take the high road and providing a great service to our small community in selling animals not for the money but in hopes of providing healthy, acclimated animals with the best chance of success to those of us who care enough to become passionate in these threads.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

PDFanatic said:


> I think that people were there to make money and hardly any if any at all were worried about what type of experience you had with frogs.


I think that you missed the whole point of the show if you felt this way. I care greatly about what frogs I sell to who. On more than one occasion I was able to talk an unexperienced frogger down from a purchase to one that was suitable to their experience level - which in the end resulted in a major loss of potential sales - but that is not what is the most important.

And Mike - no offense - but I would have denied sale of some of the frogs you purchased at the show to you as well. Some of these frogs take experience and are touchy - and the only way to get to that point is with time - not how many frogs can be purchased in a short window. So - don't take it the wrong way - but there are a lot of us who put the safety of the frogs first.




PDFanatic said:


> I also think that posting some comments like this about someone should be brought to their attention so they can at least defend themselves. If you had a problem with the way tuss or anyone else was doing business you should have emailed him about it.


But this thread was started from the very start saying that it was not directed at Tuss in any way. Instead - a philosophical type argument on the sale of frogs to potentially inexperienced individuals.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Mr. Porter,

Tuss doesn't need to defend himself. He didn't do anything wrong. 

I am saddened to think that most of the froggers who were there were only there to make money. I personally know or know of 3/4 ths of the vendors there. If they were truely there to make money, you wouldn't have seen so many frogs 1/2 size to fully grown. That takes time. 

I also know of a few vendors who refused to sell animals to potential customers, that doesn't sound like they were just there to make money does it?

Melis






PDFanatic said:


> I dunno about that, I saw a new frogger who picked up a pair of choc. leucs and said they were to expensive for beginners, I know that my friend who shared a room with me bought them owns one of the businesses on the forum and has at least 15 years of experience. Tuss was taking the smaller froglets off of his table and placing them behind him on the floor. He was a great guy and I know for a fact that not many of the darklands sold. Because he had 18 to start with and had 14 maybe on sunday, so what does that say?? I think that people were there to make money and hardly any if any at all were worried about what type of experience you had with frogs. Most froggers should know what experience level the frogs they have take. I also think that posting some comments like this about someone should be brought to their attention so they can at least defend themselves. If you had a problem with the way tuss or anyone else was doing business you should have emailed him about it. I am not trying to start an argument.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

One more try, how much were the darklands, solarte, loma partida selling for? I am trying to torture myself for not going to IAD, so please help me out here. The first time in five years I haven't gone and I guess thats what I get :lol:


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I think I overheard someone say the pairs of darklands were $600. You might check out Tuss's site, or contact him directly regarding the pricing info on his frogs.

Melis


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

cbreon...

Just go over to fruitlies.net and click on frogs...


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

He has them listed at $350 each on his site.
Jason


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

One advantage of offering such rare frogs at IAD is that you don't need to deal with shipping. Having recently shipped some $2000-3000 frog parcels, its a pretty nervewracking experience. One, if something happens the frogs are probably going to show up dead, or at least in poor condition. Two, you are most likely out a lot of money. My experience with some of the rarer pumilio is that they are harder to breed but not neccesarily more difficult to care for. In some ways I find pumilio easier to care for than bigger frogs like terribilis and tincs. I think most intermediate level froggers can handle caring for pumilio, but breeding is another issue. I think a care sheet for some of the new, less experienced owners of darklnads, loma partida, solarte sounds like one of the better ideas I've heard.


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

I do think that the conservation effort of IAD is the most important purpose of the show. Conserving the rainforest has been one of them most important conservation issues our world is facing today, that and smuggling along with a ton of other things that go with it. Its so nice to know that IAD is so concerned with the conservation of our world today. This is one of the reasons that we donated money to the IAD fund.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

That is exactly the advantange to doing it this way. Buy a couple of frogs that are this rare/expensive and then guarantee live delivery and you're taking a rather larger financial gamble.

Excellent point.

s


cbreon said:


> One advantage of offering such rare frogs at IAD is that you don't need to deal with shipping...


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

PDFanatic said:


> I also think that posting some comments like this about someone should be brought to their attention so they can at least defend themselves. If you had a problem with the way tuss or anyone else was doing business you should have emailed him about it. I am not trying to start an argument.


Maybe I am confused, but if this post is directed at me for starting the thread, you obviously didn't read all of my comments. I clearly stated I *know* Tuss is reputable and accused him of nothing, so he has nothing to defend, besides, why would I have a problem with someone I consider a friend? Perhaps you should go back and reread my comments to see what the true meaning was...


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

First off i would like to add that it was awsome meeting some of you for the first time at IAD, its nice to place a face . Second off i think the name Tuss should be left out of this whole thing and everyone should go about their business. Unless u for a fact know Tuss or anyone of those vendors brough in WC frogs then we should not even dare to speculate on anything or anyone. 

Secondly i do agree there should be some discretion on the selling part of rare frogs to unexperienced froggers, but who ever is selling their frogs has the right to sell to whom they want. Most rare frogs are 300-400 bucks and if you want to take a gamble at keeping them, then go ahead, this is your money you washing down the drain. 

And third, To earlier comments on $$$$$ , i can asure you that the frog business is not something most people get into because they want to make money, cost alone to house frogs and take care of the properly preaty much evens out money made from them. I do know you can make some nice cash here and there but like myself and many others i put all my money back into my frogs ............................ If you want to become rich Frog business is def not a way to go ....


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Scott said:


> That is exactly the advantange to doing it this way. Buy a couple of frogs that are this rare/expensive and then guarantee live delivery and you're taking a rather larger financial gamble.
> 
> Excellent point.
> 
> ...


Getting off the topic, but I have to chime in...
Maybee it is just my experience, but if you pack well, shipping is no big deal...I've shipped many frogs, had a few packages turn into 2nd day shippments, and have to date only had one DOA.
If you buy a frog at a show, from someone who lives accross the country, I'd bet that frog has been in a cup for longer than it would be if it were shipped overnight, though having control over where the cup is when you hand carry it can and does usually reduce some stress.
Think for a moment about what a frog at a show goes through, vs what a shipped frog experiences...
Just my opinion...


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Frogs have a hard time dealing with crushed packages. 

I've seen it happen. Obviously it's a rare thing, but I'd say "losing" your frogs from a deal at a show is even rarer.

s


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## Jungle_John (Feb 19, 2007)

i was thinking the same thing. 

what i was also wondering is for those at IAD that flew in, how do you get your frogs home? do you carry them on is that allowed? and wouldnt this be more stress in the long run?

just wondering for if i go to IAD next year (and plan to) i will fly but i was wondering on the flying back with frogs...


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

You pack them into your luggage, put them through the xray machine, and go on your merry way.

And pray you're not one of the unlucky few to get the "full" boarding review.

Again a situation of "Don't ask, don't tell". 

I've flown with quite a few frogs with never (yet) a problem.

s


kodama16 said:


> ... what i was also wondering is for those at IAD that flew in, how do you get your frogs home? do you carry them on is that allowed? and wouldnt this be more stress in the long run?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Mods, we may have to split the answers to this post off into thier own threads.... 

snip "Ask the owners of BJ about that one and get back to me. That isnt true at all."endsnip

Rich vendors do not drive to shows to sell products.. they delegate staff to do so..... It is really hard to get rich in the pet trade.... 


snip "Secondly i do agree there should be some discretion on the selling part of rare frogs to unexperienced froggers, but who ever is selling their frogs has the right to sell to whom they want. Most rare "endsnip

To put a different spin on this topic... I would prefer to see someone who is likelyto kill frogs buy cb animals instead of getting imports, as this will limit the loss to the wild populations. While this is a shame with respect to getting frogs established in the hobby...keep in mind that at this time very few people are looking to keep species and/or morphs in the hobby for the long-term (otherwise where did all of the E. tricolor etc go??). 


snip " do think that the conservation effort of IAD is the most important purpose of the show. Conserving the rainforest has been one of them most important conservation issues our world is facing today"endsnip

The most important thing is the sharing of the information about the conservation and keeping the amphibians alive.. 
If you had seen the keynote speaker then you would know that simply conserving the rainforest isn't enough as the amphibians are still being extirpated by chytrid among other things... 

Well its been edited out so I won't mention the dread D. c. words.. but as a member of past committees (and maybe the future), by conducting prearranged transactions that occur outside of the sales room, people actually threaten the existance of IAD. The agreement with MARS (the governing body) prohibits any sales off of the sales floor and includes all of the hotel premises. By conducting these sales and multiple people talking about them in a public forum you place the IAD committee in a bad position of either potentially having our contract canceled (leaving us without insurance etc) if we don't do anything about it (such as banning violators next year) or having to take action against violators and causing problems with the community resulting in decreased attendence and an inability to continue due to a lack of funds/interest or an outright boycott.. 

Some comments.. 

Ed


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## frogmanroth (May 23, 2006)

Hi I have read this post. 

I was vending next to FruitFlies.com, the people I saw buying the aforementioned "frogs" from that table WERE "experienced". Tuss is truly a great asset to our hobby. We shouldn't worry about who got what or who didn't get what. We should just help others. 

The only bad thing about IAD was the turn out.

Thanks to everyone that was there!


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Ok - I tried to clean this up.

Stace started this topic because he didn't want to derail the "IAD what did you get thread.

Lets all try to do the same next time. :wink:


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

First great job Oz!

Couple of comments... I have heard that darklands can be a rather hearty morph, and at times with enough space rather easy to breed. They are also not that rare anymore. That aside I agree the average hobbiest should be be cautious/responsible in what they buy. Lets just say I have a good number of years under my belt and darklands are about at the top of my list and I did not buy any. I have just not had the best of luck with Pumilio and especially raising them and until I can fix that I am going to let others with better luck have them. I did though pick up some auratus morphs due to their lack of recent popularity.


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

I put my frogs on my carry on and they sat right under the seat in front of me!!! No problems whatsoever.


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

kyle1745 said:


> First great job Oz!
> 
> Couple of comments... I have heard that darklands can be a rather hearty morph, and at times with enough space rather easy to breed. They are also not that rare anymore. That aside I agree the average hobbiest should be be cautious/responsible in what they buy. Lets just say I have a good number of years under my belt and darklands are about at the top of my list and I did not buy any. I have just not had the best of luck with Pumilio and especially raising them and until I can fix that I am going to let others with better luck have them. I did though pick up some auratus morphs due to their lack of recent popularity.


Hell, I'd venture to say that there are more people breeding/keeping Darks than Cayo/Yellow Bellies.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

bluedart said:


> Hell, I'd venture to say that there are more people breeding/keeping Darks than Cayo/Yellow Bellies.


That's hard to say, but it may actually be close. Other pums like Salt Creek, Loma Partida, and maybe even Solartes are most likely less common than Darklands and/or Cayo de Agua (or yellow bellies, old Chiriqui, etc., etc... whatever you want to call em)


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Pure Economics!!! Supply vs. Demand. Everyone always wants a blue frog!


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## hoyta (Jan 18, 2006)

*hmmm*

Ok, I like darklands and all, but whats the big deal on them? This may be personel opinion, but solartes, salt creeks,a dn others are ALOT nicer looking. If you put the wrong light on darklands they will look black. Ok, enough rambling, becuase I would have them in an instant if I had the means


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: hmmm*



hoyta said:


> If you put the wrong light on darklands they will look black.


And if you put the right light on them - they glow baby blue and purple :wink:


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## hoyta (Jan 18, 2006)

*ahhh*

yeah... you are right :roll:


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

As a rather noob in the hobby and someone who hasn't seen a pumilio in person, I can't really understand the hype about darklands. Sure, they are purty, but IMO the prettiest pums around are the Red w black spotts Bastimentos that everyone seems to have right now.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Some of the more rare pumilio are really nice like darklands, solarte and colons. You really need to see them in person, WOW!
Jason


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

^ The truth, I didnt think much of the darklands and then I saw that shade of blue in person. It made me drop my jaw!!


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

I'm suprised escudos haven't been mentioned in this conversation. I think the red/blue combo makes for one of the most stunning pumilio. Anybody have some blue jeans for me :lol:


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Yes the escudos are amazing, and from the word on the street breed rather well. 

I agree the darklands in person were amazing, and all i could do to not get some.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

The Escudos breed well for some, not for others. I personally think that Escudos are more impressive to look at, but looking at Darklands gives you a whole different appreciation that is hard for me to explain...


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Goodpoint of the Escudos. Forgot about them...they are the best of both worlds....colors...whatever


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

My comment would people always want what they can't get....it's human nature. Blue Pumilio at least the ones I had 6 or 7 years ago were cryptic and very shy, now if they were Darklands or not we'll never know but a shy frog with not bright colors is not a recipe for big demand....unless you can't get it.
Tuss seems like a good guy and good supplier to this hobby, I knew him when his name was Tizzle in da hizzle just don't call me Ishkabibble....glad he shortened it.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Sorry Tuss was never known as Tizzle...etc.....


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

First the name..."Darklands"....its just cool 

And ya, u need to see these guys in person to get the full effect really...and they can actually vary quite a bit. Some are nearly black, others have hard to see spots, some have a near rust color on the back, navy blue, blue blue, light blue, and purplish....all kinds of variations even among offspring from the same pair  

The pics on rich frye's site are good examples of the variation, then just take a look around the internet, and tuss's site and you'll get even more of an idea.

Oh and i've delt with Tuss, so one more "He is a great frogger" here.


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Some people just have to cry.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Trust me...when the credit card bill came in... 

I cried too.


I think I did one of these..... (as if waking up from a 3 day bender)....

:shock:


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