# Melted plastics - danger to frogs/tads



## dysphoria (Apr 1, 2012)

Let me preface this by stating that this is in no way meant to be a review of a product, or any supplier.

So I recently acquired some film containers with suction cups from a supplier, and when I received them, almost all the suction cups would not stay in the holes that were made:










As you can see, the holes are pretty rough.

When I came back and made an inquiry as to why this was so, I was informed that the holes in the cups where made with a soldering iron. 
I tend to be very cautious about what I expose my frogs to, and the thought of potentially exposing my frogs(and the eggs/tadpoles) unknowingly to any toxins produced by heating plastics to high temperatures is a little disturbing. Also, that some of these toxins -depending on the variety of plastic- can remain present even after cleaning the cups thoroughly. 

Am I way off base to have an issue with this?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I would have an issue with the fact that they do not fit. What good are they if the film cans are going to be falling off the wall?
Additionally, the suction cup in a film canister needs to be very tight so that they do not accidentally rotate. You need to be able to mount some horizontally, and some at a 45 degree angle.
Personally, I would ask for my money back, and would insist on shipping charges back, too. If the suction cups are that loose, they are simply defective.


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## dysphoria (Apr 1, 2012)

Well the bad fit(or no fit in most of the cans)was something that I definitely had a major issue with, and the reason why I came back to the supplier. However, learning that they do it the way they do - mostly because I have other film cans from this supplier - I am a little nervous about the ones I have. 

Seems like a half-hindquarter way to do it if you ask me, not to mention the potential for contaminates from the melted plastic.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

P.m me your address, ill mail ya some "no charge"..


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

I personally like the magnets more than suction cups. They are expensive but well worth the cost. You will not have to worry about a suction cup falling off the wall with a froglet or frog in it, or falling on top of a frog that may happen to be under a falling canister. Even if it is a lower priced frog, I would still cringe to think about them falling.


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## IEatBugs (May 15, 2012)

I don't know that making the hole with a soldering iron is going to have any affect or not as far as leeching anything, but the inconsistency of the holes and the way they look is not acceptable in my book.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I make my own. I haven't seen any with suction cups as big as I like them. I have had ones with small suction cups fall off the wall. I use a larger, 1 1/4" suction cup.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

TheCoop said:


> P.m me your address, ill mail ya some "no charge"..


Off topic but THIS is why i LOVE this community. Froggers helping froggers at no benefit to themselves. Like my local frogger buddy bringing me a giant bag of excelsior free of charge. Just being a part of this hobby makes me feel all warm and tingly inside (i mean that in the cleanest way possible ) Just about everyone in this hobby deserves a good pat on the back.


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

Did the one in the middle actually get shipped out like that, with the shreds all hanging off it? 

Hope you get an answer to your question...


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

They look horrible period.. Why use a soldering iron when a high speed drill with a good bit works amazingly? I sat down and drilled 400+ and also reamed them all out slightly with a razor blade to clear up any burs... I have never had the falling off the glass issue either "thank god".. Brad


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

OP...I understand this was not your intention with this thread, but does the selling of an inferior product not warrant some type of negative feedback/public warning?


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Just a tip for those that do make their own suction cup film cans. I use a cheap hole-punch to make the holes. The suction cups I use i get in 6 packs at HomeDepot. The hold made by the hole punch is "just" small enough that I cannot get the knob of the suction cup in without using some sort of lube (dish soap works good), and I'm not gonna do that when I'm making a ton of them, so I just overlap the hole punch offset by just a sliver to expand the hole. Comes out clean, no burs, no melted plastic, and a tight fit. If you do the single punch and then work the suction cup in with soap, its a really tight fit.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I received the same type of canisters from a sponsor a few months ago. I chalked it up to a one time problem and used those canisters for sitting in the bottom of the tank, because, they kept falling off of the suction cups. I'm saddened to think that they continue to send out canisters like that (if, indeed, it's the same place).


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## dysphoria (Apr 1, 2012)

jdooley195 said:


> Did the one in the middle actually get shipped out like that, with the shreds all hanging off it?
> 
> Hope you get an answer to your question...


Yep! they came to me exactly like you see them - most of them were missing the suction cups and were rattling around in the bottom of the box. Pretty nice eh?



TheCoop said:


> They look horrible period.. Why use a soldering iron when a high speed drill with a good bit works amazingly? I sat down and drilled 400+ and also reamed them all out slightly with a razor blade to clear up any burs... I have never had the falling off the glass issue either "thank god".. Brad


Yeah man.. that's why I was so confused. It was just as easy to do it the right way.. I am not sure why they were doing it ghetto style, and furthermore why they thought it was acceptable to send them to me this way.



randommind said:


> OP...I understand this was not your intention with this thread, but does the selling of an inferior product not warrant some type of negative feedback/public warning?


I am not sure what the forum policy on this was, so I withheld the name of the seller. Anyone can feel free to PM me if they would like to inquire.



frogface said:


> I received the same type of canisters from a sponsor a few months ago. I chalked it up to a one time problem and used those canisters for sitting in the bottom of the tank, because, they kept falling off of the suction cups. I'm saddened to think that they continue to send out canisters like that (if, indeed, it's the same place).


I'll hit you up with a PM.. I am guessing it's the same place though.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

You cannot leave their name here. No feedback in the open forum. You can leave feedback in the vendor feedback section. The stand-up thing to do, would be to give them a chance to make it right first, with a FULL refund.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I agree, Doug, and I wouldn't name someone publicly without contacting them first. We all mess up and it's only right to give a person the chance to fix things first, IMO. With my situation, I did not contact them so they have no idea that I was displeased.


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## dysphoria (Apr 1, 2012)

Pumilo said:


> You cannot leave their name here. No feedback in the open forum. You can leave feedback in the vendor feedback section. The stand-up thing to do, would be to give them a chance to make it right first, with a FULL refund.


The seller has gotten back to me and has issued a full refund. I am on track in that regard. I am a little bummed that they'd think it was cool to send them to me like this though. And, I am still concerned about the melted plastic, however minute the possibility of contamination may be - I don't like taking risks with my babies.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

My offer still stands.. Im glad you got a refund..


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

As to the OP, I have no idea what sort of dangers melted plastic might pose. My thinking was that once it had cooled, it would be safe again. Got nothing to back that up.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

frogface said:


> As to the OP, I have no idea what sort of dangers melted plastic might pose. My thinking was that once it had cooled, it would be safe again. Got nothing to back that up.


I'm with you on this on thinking it would be safe...and having NOTHING to back it up, haha.


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## dysphoria (Apr 1, 2012)

randommind said:


> I'm with you on this on thinking it would be safe...and having NOTHING to back it up, haha.


Well, to be perfectly honest, I have nothing to say that it isn't safe either.

Just that most plastics let out nasty funk when you heat them up to melting point - more so when they are nicely fried like these are. But then, I tend to be on the paranoid side with anything going into the frog tank. tinfoil hat..


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I have a problem with going back to (any) vendor and asking for your money back without saying anything to the community. Heres my line of thinking before anyone wants to roast me on this. First, I want to recognize that we have many stand up vendors on here, and now and again, mistakes get made, and usually made right.

Now, with that said, THIS is not a mistake. This is a vendor (whoever they may be) that does not care about the quality of the product they sold. For the one person who spoke up on this issue....look how many said "ME TOO!!" Now, the OP has gotten the money spent back, and I'm glad the vendor did this. But.....if the OP had just gone to the vendor and asked for money back, and gotten it, its very likely (some) vendors (maybe not this one, who nows) would simply keep selling shoddy, unusable, damaged products like this. While many vendors on here double as friends and fellow frog enthusists, they also operate bussinesses. This is a minor example. I have experience not so minor losses in the past, and I am thrilled with the Vendor feedback section. However......it only works if both GOOD and BAD experiences are recorded. If you only leave poitive feedback, that will give a one sided view of a vendor. I would HIGHLY recomend that you include that the vendor DID or DID NOT make the situatiion right. My 3 and 3/4 cents.

Off soap-box


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Your point is well taken! However the 'look how many have said me too' is really just me. I chalked it up to a one time mistake until I saw this thread. I do intend to let the vendor know that I have also had this problem. I don't want a refund. I want the vendor to return to the quality products they were once known for. 

eta: I have notified the vendor


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

frogface said:


> I want the vendor to return to the quality products they were once known for.


Exactly!!! But that wont always happen without the proper "nudge" (more than 1-2 complaints from customers.) This vendor may have made 5000 of these things at a significant cost. I'd hate to have to be the one to tell the boss we have to toss them out.


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## dysphoria (Apr 1, 2012)

I am with you on the above. I have given this particular vendor a lot of business(not just me, but directing others as well), and it's just a little frustrating that they would find this acceptable to ship out to people. 
In the end they are just film cups, and I shouldn't get too whipped into a froth about it.. 

But really? The more I look at them the more amused I am.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

I (Josh) have already spoken with the original poster and offered a refund.

We have been making the film cans since 06 I believe. In the early days we used soldering irons (and those before us too).

We moved to hole punches a few years ago.

This last batch of film canisters (we use to collect them, but now we import them from overseas!) were much thicker which made hole punching impossible.

So, we went back to the soldering iron. I believe the problem with the ones in the picture is the cold weather that they were melted in...this made them cool/harden too fast instead of molding to the suction cup.

We are currently working on a solution to make the hole puncher work for the film cans.

If anyone else has any problems with the film canisters, please contact me personally at [email protected] and we accept them back for a refund.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

I really admire how you owned up to the issue on your own without being called out by name! Shows great business ethics and a great deal of care for your customers..


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

TheCoop said:


> I really admire how you owned up to the issue on your own without being called out by name! Shows great business ethics and a great deal of care for your customers..


I agree 100%. It shows me that you value your customers. Much respect.


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## daggekko (Jun 27, 2011)

Yeah I second the drill bit option. I drilled a few a couple days ago and am pretty happy with them. I used a tiny bit first to make a pilot hole and then used the larger bit. 

Does anyone have some photos/info of how you do the magnets? I'd like to see that.

Doug, where do you find good large suction cups at a good price?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

daggekko said:


> Yeah I second the drill bit option. I drilled a few a couple days ago and am pretty happy with them. I used a tiny bit first to make a pilot hole and then used the larger bit.
> 
> Does anyone have some photos/info of how you do the magnets? I'd like to see that.
> 
> Doug, where do you find good large suction cups at a good price?


Just to see if they were what I wanted, I bought several packs from Hobby Lobby. I am currently waiting for delivery of a 100 lot from eBay. 100 1 3 16" Small SUCTIONCUPS4U Suction Cups w Mushroom Head FREEBIE | eBay
I never said they were cheap, just that they are what I wanted.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Paul, expect a package on Saturday.. 2 black, 8 clear..


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## dysphoria (Apr 1, 2012)

You rock man.. plain and simple. You ever need anything, just holler.


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## daggekko (Jun 27, 2011)

> I never said they were cheap, just that they are what I wanted.


Fair enough. I guess I just try to be as cheap as possible sometimes(most of the time)


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Just a comment for Josh.. You would like to go back to the hole punch method. Do you have an air compressor around the shop and a place that sells cheap tools? I picked up a air fed "punch and crimper" type tool for welding this year. Made good holes in 12g steal so plastic should be no issue. And if you're trying to sit down and pump out hundreds this could really come in handy and not have to ice your hand after its said and done to relieve the cramp lol. just thought id throw that out there to try and remedy the problem with thicker film cans.


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