# red eyed tree frog and darts



## nburns (May 3, 2005)

I was asked if it would be okay to mix darts with a red eyed tree frog. Since I know nothing of the tree frogs I was hoping to getting some opinions from the rest of you. My first response would be no (just thinking about someone wanting to mix different species of darts together) but since I don't know anything about these frogs I thought here would be the best place to ask around. Thanks!


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Not A Good Idea(TM)

Darts and RETFs do live in the same geographical areas, but they reside in different microhabitats. Darts (mostly) live on the ground, and RETFs (as their name implies) live in the trees. RETFs also grow much larger than darts, and eat larger food.


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Thanks! Like I said, I am selling some froglets and someone wanted to know if the two could be kept together. Since I know nothing about RYTF I wanted to get other people's opinions before I gave them an answer.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Based on what we have observed with our red eyed tree frogs (they are about half grown), they would probably not be adverse to eating or at least trying to eat smaller darts. Their basic feeding mechanism is to leap with mouth wide open and engulf the prey. Even as young froglets they took on pretty large prey for their size. They have no problem descending to the bottom of the viv and pouncing on whatever they find at substrate level.

Bill


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

some things to ponder first 

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4532

Ed


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Ed said:


> some things to ponder first
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4532
> 
> Ed


Very interesting message thread. Good points made from different perspectives. Personally, I don't see the strong driver for mixing reptiles and/or amphibians in vivs unless one is developing exhibits for zoos or other public display institutions. If I'm interested in mixed ecosystems, I would prefer to visit the real thing. But to each their own.

At the end of the day, we are talking about enclosures that represent a small fraction of the space that animals would inhabit in the wild....keeping them with an acceptable number of their species is probably the least we can do to minimize stress.

Just my 0.02

Bill


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Thanks for all the input. Bill I totally agree with you. I think this guy is a newbie and just wants to get a couple frogs and since he doesn't have a tank ready he wants to just throw them in with something else that he already has. I just wanted to give him an education reason why it wouldn't be such a good idea. Thanks everyone!


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

If the tanks is tall enough and the darts are big enough and there are plenty of large elevated leaves for the red eyes it should be fine. For example, a 24" tall tank by at least 20" wide with subadult to adult tincs or other similar sized darts. The red eyes come out and feed at night, while the darts hide and come out and feed during the day. The only problem I see is the crickets bothering the sleeping darts at night before the red eyes eat them.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

One cannot translate meters in the wild into inches in a vivarium and get the same habitat for different species or genera at different levels that will get along with each other. The same environment in a vast rainforest or "jungle," as it used to be called before we got so politically more appealing about naming things, is not the same thing as crowding different species or genera into something only 20" X 24." I don't even keep a pair of pumilios in anything less than twice that, and my six leucs sometimes seem crowded in an 80 gallon bow tank full of bromealiads. They use all levels. I can't imagine introducing a red-eyed tree frog to any of my vivariums and have it work out. If I ever got one, I would keep it separately. The nocturnal vs diurnal habits are not a safe-guard against the meeting of the twain and competition for territory and/or food. All of my 10 species of darts utililize their entire habitat, top to bottom, no matter whether they are called "arboreal" or terrestrial." I can't imagine them sharing with a red-eye tree frog and still keeping their cool in their relatively diminished habitats. I feel lucky when even the groupies put up with each other and they all stay healthy. 

Why is it that every new person to the dart hobby seems to want to mix not only species, but different genera of amphibians and even reptiles before they have any experience with darts at all? I remember wanting to do this myself, so I can empathize with the desire or people still asking the same questions I asked and am answering now in the same way, after some experience. Mixing in a vast zoo habitat is different than pushing them into inches together in a hobby tank. A "show-off" zoo display is different from keeping healthy frogs in small tanks as hobby. While one can graduate to this level with experience and know-how and monitary investment, most rank beginners need some experience before taking up mixing in a habitat measured by inches.


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Patty, I agree with you. I think that draw is to have as many frogs as possible (money put into frogs) with as few tanks as possible (little money put into tanks). When someone sees oh I can get a frog for $50 but I will have to spend much more than that to have a great looking, good sized tank their first thought is probably how many frogs (of one species or many) can I fit into that tank. Thanks!


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