# some confusion and a little frustration...



## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

As many of you know, both my pairs of azureus have been dropping eggs fairly regularly lately. I'm thrilled that they are happy and breeding, but I am having major problems getting the eggs into tads!

With each clutch so far (both pairs) - all eggs seem to make it to about day 8-10 before they turn to mush. I'm not having issues with them not being fertilized - both males are doing their jobs. I have tried lots of different tactics so far - pulling the eggs after 48 hours - leaving them in the tank undisturbed - treating them with just spring water when needed - adding tadpole tea (boiled oak leaves) to stave off mold/nasties. Everything has the same result. Mushy little half-tadpoles still in their eggs. Because it has been 5-6 clutches from two different pairs, I'm thinking it is something that I am doing (or not doing!). :roll: 

Here are a couple pics of the latest batch of eggs to succumb:




I actually had high hopes for this clutch because all 5 were growing at the same rate AND I was using the tadpole tea for the first time, which I had hoped would prevent this from happening. :?

Has anyone seen this before? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,


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## frogman824 (Aug 10, 2005)

Hey Mike, 

I used to have a pair of Azureus with the same exact circumstances as you. They must've laid at least 20 clutches that molded over, I became too frustrated and got rid of them. What are you supplementing with? I guess with time they will get it right, or so I've been told. Good luck, hopefully you get better advice than what I could give.


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

I wish my pair would just lay eggs :? lol... I hope you have some turn out. I'd would very much appreciate it if you'd post some pics of your set up, and tell what conditions you pairs are in, as it may help me out?

Good luck again.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

What are you feeding/dusting w/ and what are the temps in the tank and where the eggs are?


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Feeding is every other day, alternating dusting with Calcium (with D3) and Herptivite (both RepCal brand). Both were purchased/opened in Sept '07, so I should think about getting replacements soon. 

I'm only feeding Melos right now, but the frogs are also eating springs and other goodies in the tanks. I am currently culturing tropical woodlice that will go in one of these days. 

Tank temps range from a high of about 74 during the day and down to 66 ish at night. 

Eggs are kept in a closet, so the temp is a few degrees higher, on average.


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## Colby02 (Jul 21, 2007)

I had some doing the same thing for me. I tried many different things to solve the problem, here is what has been working. I leave the eggs for one day after i find them , at this point I remove them and put them in a covered petri dish and leave them for two days. On the third day i ad aged tapwater just enough in the bottom of the petri dish that it barely covers the bottom. I leave them alone from this point and have had an occasional one mold (mostly infertile) but I would say at least ninety percent have hatched out. 

Good luck,
Craig


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

I had the same thing happen with my leucs. They layed about 6 clutches and I was lucky to get two tads out of about 30. There were 3 possible reasons for this that I could think of: 1- the femle was too young, she was only about 10-11 months old. 2- suppliments were too old, mine were about 6 1/2 months. 3- temps were too high. I left my eggs in the tank until they were about ready to hatch, and the daytime temps were usually 78-81. Those were my experiences. I have tried reducing these problems but they haven't layed in a few months so only time will tell if their eggs start hatching. Your temps sounded alright. It could be your female is young or that the suppliments are a little old. Let me know if you find a solution to your problem, I'd be interested.[/quote]


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## Ronm (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi Mike,

it looks as though you took a pict. over here.
My azureus rarely lay and when they do I get almost always the same results. I know one thing that keeps the eggs longer ok and that's working as clean as possible. So whenever I hear my male I change every fimp canister and perti dish. After laying the clutch I store the eggs in a closed, but not airtied box, with app. 23-24 C. 
I've use larvae water to rinse the eggs, but now I/m spraing the eggs with a mist of EsHA 9kind of meth blue, I quess)

But this is the best result from my azureus :? 
http://www.dendroboard.com/coppermine/a ... ls2-kl.jpg


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

well, the journeys not done yet you guys, i have gone through the same thing up till 12-14 clutches, finally got em to hatch out into tads, now im dealin w/ SLS just like Ronm, hopin this stops sooncause its been a while and i would like some nice froglets. wonder why this is so common? When i was lookin for answers, several people told me the same thing, "it would take a while before get good clutches" so whats the deal w/ Azureus?


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

After the previous post, i went straight to the gallery and the first pic i saw was a pic of azureus eggs, and they were mine. so i checked the date on em and I posted em 11mo. ago, thats how long i been dealing with this.
STOP THE MADNESS...


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## jaysnakes (Jul 5, 2006)

At least you guys are lucky enough to get eggs my pair of 18 months have never laid


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Switch things up and be perceptive. Dust w/ both every feeding. watch to see if the eggs make it to a further stage after a week of dusting every feeding w/ both vit and min. breed some crickets and feed them(pinheads) orange, apple, carrot, hi qual organic dogfood, fish food leafy greens etc. Most problems w/ breeding are dietary if the temps and such are in order. They are just never getting enough vits or min to do anything beyond keeping themselves going but get enough protein to form eggs that aren`t in good health.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks for the replies everyone...

So it seems my problem is not uncommon and could be the result of any (or all!) of the following:

1. Frogs too young: For one of my pairs this could for sure be a contributing factor. For the other pair, however, I KNOW they have produced good froglets in the past. 

2. Nutritional deficiency: Although I'm feeding very regularly and dusting at every feeding, it has been suggested to me that the frogs may be getting enough vits and mins to survive and be healthy - but not enough to sustain good eggs. I am going to get my hands on a couple different feeders and start some cultures. We shall see if that is the difference maker.

3. Not using a strong mold inhibitor: I have only been using tadpole tea on the last 2 clutches of eggs - and they seemed to have made it the farthest. I am going to grab some meth blue and give that a whirl on the next eggs....

Speaking of which, I think both pairs of frogs sensed my disappointment/frustration yesterday - they BOTH dropped clutches overnight. 4 eggs from each pair for a total of 8. They want to keep trying! :lol:

Thanks again for the help everyone and I will keep you all updated on any progress with these newest clutches. *fingers crossed* :mrgreen: 

Cheers,


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

*Good luck mike, let us know...*


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Methyl blue may solve the symptoms but may not get to the source that the tads aren`t strong enough to survive normal tank conditions.


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## Ronm (Oct 1, 2006)

Good point!

Over here a lot of frogkeepers put great emphasis on catching all kind of little bugs in the wild. It's now too cold, but I'm planning to do so in a few months. Right now I feed my fruid flies oranges and such before throuwing them (dusted) for the frogs.
Ron


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Maybe catching them in the wild initially to culture but field sweepings can introduce parasites and pathogens. tapeworm and chytrid for 2.


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

I have had the same problem with my Azureus. Mostly in the winter time (now) because it is harder to keep the eggs warm (76). Using meth blue helped a lot but feeding parents every day and using vitamins one day and calcium two days also helped. I also make sure I do not completely cover the eggs with moisture. They need to breath. If you cover them completely, they mold over. Good luck. I also have 8 going at the moment.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Update - the azureus finally sorted it out. I have 3 tads with front legs in a grow out tank and 7 more in deli cups that are about a week behind the first three.

Hoping to have some froglets on land next week.

Thanks again to all that posted here - did any of you manage to get your frogs going?


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

jaysnakes said:


> At least you guys are lucky enough to get eggs my pair of 18 months have never laid


You should try separating them for a couple of weeks and re-introduce them. I don't know why, but it almost always works for me.

Good luck! Richard in Staten Island.


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## herper99 (Mar 21, 2008)

In my experience, the frogs tend to work this out over time. Many people keep trying new things and inevitably they try long enough that sooner or later the frogs get it right and people attribute it to something that they (the keeper) did different. I think we often place pairs together when they are very young and expect them to get it right from the start (myself included), but in reality it often takes time. With my azureus, I had them together as a young pair and got 2 clutches of bad eggs, so I separated them for 2 months and fed them like crazy, put them back together and they immediately pumped out a steady and consistent supply of viable eggs of which almost 100% make it out of the water perfectly healthy. I don't use methyl blue, only home-made tadpole tea. I supplement every feeding, alternating calcium and vit/mins. Temps are always around 78. 

I hope this helps.


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