# All my plants are dying, help please



## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i am getting frusterated. everybody's tanks seem to slowly grow to the point of having to trim back plants. mine to the opposite, and slowly die. i now have one tank with practically everything dead. this includes a couple times of broms, creeping fig, moss, and a half dead fern. the only thing that seems fine is a crypt. all the plants turn brown the then die over. 

they are medium exo-terras. on the screen lid i placed pieces of plexi to hold in moisture, but there's still cracks all over and that ventilation strip in the front. twelve hour light cycle. misted a few times a week. anybody know what could be wrong?

i want to set up another tank, but i don't want to order a bunch of broms just to have them die. i need to figure out what's wrong first.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Post some pictures. It sounds like maybe over crowding and as the result, you're getting rot. How strong is your lighting?

I'd like to see pics.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

What's your lighting like? At first glance, everything else sounds fine. Medium exo terra, what are the dimentions of that one, 12x12x18?


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## Joshchan (Apr 30, 2006)

Hey Mann,
That sounds a little odd. What type of lighting do you have? What type of substrate are you using? Is the viv a media over rocks or is it an elevated substrate (eggcrate, pvc risers, etc.)? Sounds like you have enough air movement. How often do you mist? Hope I can help.
Josh


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i didn't really think about what type of light it was. it's always been the standard bulb it came with until about a month ago. i changed it to the repti-glo 5.0 because i plan on getting some geckos. it says for tropical terrariums, but perhaps that's probably for tropical animals not necessarily plants.

if it's the light i might be in a bit of a pickle, because the geckos will need uv light. i have 1 four foot light across 4 exo terras (12x12x18 each), and don't have room for another strip light. buying a new strip light for two bulbs and putting the one i have to sit in the storage room would seem like a waste of a lot of money.

also could it be that the plants aren't getting enough ventilation, which also might mean it's too humid? there is that ventilation strip, but i can see fog on the tank for a couple days at a time without misting, so it must be really humid in there.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Well, your work for the UV may be lost b/c most glass and acrylic (unless otherwise noted) filter out UVB rays (or UVA I alwasy forget which).

I would still like to see pictures. I've got fog on my tanks and my plants aren't rotting. It could be a number of things.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

well the gecko cage would be screen under the lights so that should be fine. i should be able to get pictures tomorrow.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2006)

What kind of geckos are you getting? It might just be the lights, but I dunno. How long were they in there before they started dying off?


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

the geckos will be klemmeri

i'd guess the tank's have been up roughly a half year. like i said i put on the new light about a month ago. it's hard to say when the plants started dying off. if i remember correctly, i think i started to notice it before i switched the lights, but not long before. maybe i'm wrong and they started dying when i switched lights, which would a good thing i believe.

here are pics. makes me sad when i look at this old overall:









current overall:









one of the broms. not rooted, just set on top of the log with the roots exposed:









another brom, same kind i think, sitting on the ground but not potted or anything. creeping fig upper right. a neo brom in the upper left. the stem was stuck into the coco panel backround:









i noticed some of the orchid bark on the ground have white edges. some kind of fungus?:









this is in another tank, but dying in the same way. you can see it starts to turn brown at the center:









thanks for the help guys. if anything, i'm hoping it's the light and i can just buy a new one or put the standard one back in. i'm not sure what i'll do for the klemmeri then, i might have to shell out some money on a double fixture.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I'd like to ask...

What did you use to adhere the background to the back of the tank? I've noticed the same results when using cheap low grade silicone sealant.

Other than that, I'd say that you have rotting going on which can be from over watering, not enough light, poor air movement and/or a fungal problem.

Mostly though, it looks like you don't have enough light.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i used GE Silicone II 100% silicone sealant for windows and door.

hopefully it's the light. i put back in the stock light, and it's quite a bit brighter. only thing is i would like something with some uv light. do you know if the repti-glo 2.0 might be enough light? i really don't know anything about plants or lights. that would still give some uvb for the geckos and i'd just supplement them with vitamins. it says the 2.0 is a full spectrum light. here's the difference from the 5.0 to the 2.0

















http://www.exo-terra.com/EN/products/re ... _50_i.html
http://www.exo-terra.com/EN/products/re ... _20_i.html

i usually only open the tanks every couple of days to feed and mist, and leave them closed the rest to keep the humidity up. would it be more beneficial to open the tanks each day and mist to put some fresh water and air in there?


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2006)

Is your fixture a double bulb one? You could have one UV bulb, one a daylight fluo. and maybe supplement with a CF spiral day bulb? This might affect the heat output though. Or you could switch to low light plants and see how those do. Kind of hard to say without knowing what exactly is going on.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2006)

Is your fixture a double bulb one? You could have one UV bulb, one a daylight fluo. and maybe supplement with a CF spiral day bulb? This might affect the heat output though. Or you could switch to low light plants and see how those do. Kind of hard to say without knowing what exactly is going on.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2006)

it loks like you dont have enough light. thats why the maidenhair fern is still alive. they dont take to much light to stay alive. as for the cryptanthus, they're way hardy and will survive a desert or a tsunami at least longer than a bromiliad would.

the brom. on the far left was basically in the dark. im sure thats why that died. i dont know about the other ones.

the mold is just there b/cs its mad humid in there and the dead plant is rotting. its not really a bad thing.


i dont know, i could be wrong. i just got back into terrrariums after a couple years of college. i guess ill have to start from scratch


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## Joshchan (Apr 30, 2006)

^^^^^ What he said.^^^^^^^


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> i have 1 four foot light across 4 exo terras (12x12x18 each), and don't have room for another strip light. buying a new strip light for two bulbs and putting the one i have to sit in the storage room would seem like a waste of a lot of money.


Bingo! Your typical 4' bulb puts out around 3000 lumen when new. That divided over four tanks, and you're looking at 750 lumen - that's at the bulb. The problem is that you want 750 lumen to hit the bottom of the tanks. Light degrades very quickly as you move from its source in this application. Simply put, you need more bulbs - not different ones, but more. 

You can fit two 4' shop lights (four bulbs total) over your tanks. I'll be tight (front to back) and you may have to get a little inventive to keep them up there - if you went that route. I understand the not wanting to ditch your current fixture so buy a shop light, two daylight (GE or Sylvania make 4', T12 and/or T8 6500K Daylight bulbs) bulbs, and add that to what you have and you'll have enough light. 

IMO, more than you need is going to be better than not enough because you can always raise the lights if you have too much light, but you can't get them any closer than sitting on top of the tank.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Or if you can, use the sprial compact fluorescent lights from Home Depot. You'll get much better output and consume MUCH less energy doing so.

I swear by these things.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I've not used them for a tank - yet - but I put some Sylvania full spectrum "craft lights" in my living room, 23w, 5000K. WOW, they get the job done. I might be right next to Antone swinging the ____ of these things sometime soon.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

ouch, i dunno if i can fit another fixture. the tank footprints are 12x12. the front half already has some halogen puck lights for basking areas for the geckos (darn things are so needy with light requirements!). if i bought a shop light to replace my fixture now, and just have two bulbs across the back half (the repti-glo 5.0 and a 6500k), do you think that might be ok? i'm not looking for speedy growth, but of course i need enough for them to live and grow slowly. i'm trying to think what else i can do...


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

See about doing a 3' light for 3 of the tanks, and a mercury vapor light for the gecko tank. The MV light will do both heat and UV, and to boot you can pick them up at Lowes. A 100w bulb would be plenty - that's all I ever used for my bearded dragons. 

It's funny you mention the lights, that's why I've not gotten into day geckos, the lights.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

well i went to lowe's and bought a shop light. i can fit the shop light and my current light on the tanks, giving me three 4' lights. only thing is i have to figure out a way to raise the shop light on the back of the tanks a couple inches to fit the halogen puck lights under. would that be safe to put the puck lights under the fluorescents like that?

on a bit of a side note, at the moment i'm using a pack of three puck lights that split from one power cord. is it safe to unplug one or two of the lights and leave the ends open (maybe taped off)? i don't know if that would send too much power to the one light or something. sorry for being such a newb lol.

so given that all works out, i have three 4' slots available. i already have one standard bulb that came with the first light fixture. i also have the 5.0 for the geckos. one slot left, i'd use either the 2.0 full spectrum or a typical 6500 daylight bulb. does that sound good?

thanks for all your help.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2006)

Do you mean just a regular fluorescent bulb that came with the fixture? If so ditch it,its pretty useless. Get another daylight bulb.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2006)

oops double post


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Adam,

How bout some Pics of your rack/setup

That should help give us an Idea to proceed to give you some advice



Todd


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

i noticed, what looked like calcium buildup on your substrate. are you spraying with tap water?
ive never had a problem growing most broms and plants under regular flourescent shop lights.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Thats a good observation Aaron. I assumed it was the mold/fungus that grows on those things sometimes. I figured that if it were hard water stains it would cover the whole part of the substrate intead of just the edges.

I used tap water for a while but I stopped b/c I've read that the minerals can clog the spiracles (Is that what they're called or was that insects?) on the leaves and slowly kill off the plant.

It'd be nice to get an update later down the road about this situation.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

ya, i thought the water in the city was hard, nothing compared to akron well water. it looks like what i encountered on my orchid bark when i tried to use strait filtered/uv sterilized well water. some municipal water systems can be too hard also.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> would that be safe to put the puck lights under the fluorescents like that?


Yes. T12 flourescent lights (typical run of the mill sized bulbs. T12 is their diameter) don't get hot. 



> is it safe to unplug one or two of the lights and leave the ends open (maybe taped off)? i don't know if that would send too much power to the one light or something. sorry for being such a newb lol.


That depends... If you pull a bulb, and the whole thing stops working, you've got to do some rigging which I'll tell you how to do if that's the case. If you pull a bulb and the rest keep working, then just tape off that plug and make sure it stays dry. Either way, you're not going to hurt anything by pulling a bulb. Just don't stick your finger in the socket. 



> i have three 4' slots available. i already have one standard bulb that came with the first light fixture. i also have the 5.0 for the geckos. one slot left, i'd use either the 2.0 full spectrum or a typical 6500 daylight bulb. does that sound good?


Here's how I'd set it up. Put the 5.0 in the back so the geckos have the whole back of the tank that's directly under the 5.0 bulb. In the middle I'd put the 2.0 and the front I'd put the 6500K bulb. The bulb that came with it is probably a 25w shop light bulb and is far from ideal. Find a dumpster and enjoy throwing it inside and watching it implode.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

thanks for the replies. i never was able to determine what the white stuff is. i do not use tap water, i use distilled water from meijer. 

as for the lights, i bought a pack of two 6500k bulbs, so i'm using them and the 5.0. i have the 6500k's on the front and back, so that the plants get light from different angles. it helps get light under pieces of wood to spaces where plants weren't getting light before. the 5.0 is in the middle.


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

I know this is a late post to this but if you are using distilled water stop immediately unless you are putting back the mineral content back into the water.If you a large amount of animal feces then you dont need to but if not then your water if killing your plants.distilled water and RO water are horrble for plants.Its practically dead water not even suitable for hydration. If you are worried about hard water just let a bucket of water sit for a week with some moss or something organic to soften the water.A simple water filter would work better than distilled as well.
I use to grow so many plants when I lived in Washington but now that I'm in Montana I have to grow then in terraruims.From my experience vertical tanks are extremely difficult to light because of the lumens of flourecent bulbs drop exponentially as you get farther away(after a foot or so they or pretty much worthless unless they are very low light plants).I had a three foot talll vivaruim for my tokays that required a metal halide to grow anything other than pothos.You also run into the problem of bigger plants shading out the lower, smaller ones. If you are going to grow tillandsias, keep them really close to the top and soak them for a couple hours every two weeks.
As for your lighting, if you are going to use a four foot strip over several tanks invest in some double strip T5's.They produce less heat and more light efficiently.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

There's nothing wrong with using RO or Distilled water for you terrarium plants. I've been doing that for a LONG time and here's the result....

Before...










After...










Exclusive use of Distilled and RO. I used rainwater once. This is a terrarium with frogs in it, doing this without any animal life might pose a problem in the long run.


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

Do you ever add fertilizer to your water?


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

froggerboy said:


> Do you ever add fertilizer to your water?


For my personal plants outside I do, but not for a terrarium/viv. That would be murder. The fertilizer comes from the dead flies and frog feces/urine. Thats why using RO or Distilled is okay b/c of that reason. Doing it without any animal life might be dangerous though.


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

Frogtofall said:


> For my personal plants outside I do, but not for a terrarium/viv. That would be murder. The fertilizer comes from the dead flies and frog feces/urine. Thats why using RO or Distilled is okay b/c of that reason. Doing it without any animal life might be dangerous though.


That was the point of my first post.Without any significant source of P-N-K,the plants would die with distilled water.It would be nice to find a frog friendly micro-nutrient additive for the plants.I use to use Superthrive in my teenage "hemp" growing days but wouldn't trust it with my frogs.
I'm surprised I don't read more abuot hydroponics on this thread.Especially with the crazy for leca.Growing plants in a vivarium has very similiar priciples to follow.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

My point was that in a viv with frogs in it, you don't have to worry about the problems that would arise from using just Distilled or RO water that you'd see in a terrarium or viv withouth animal life.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

thanks for bringing that to my attention froggerboy, i didn't know that. i have frog feces and dead fruit flies though so the distilled water should be fine. it's only been a week or two since i put new lights on, and already i can tell some plants are doing much better. of couse several of the plants were totally dead, so i replaced them. on of the broms that was dying but still had a couple good leaves has grown a little bit, and the creeping fig has grown a lot. thanks a lot guys.


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