# this is what i received today/not good:(



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i received 6 of these. this being the worse with the obviously bad protrusion of what i do not know and the other 5 having nose rubs, scars, infections etc. tell me your thoughts. i accidentally touched it too as it jumped out at me when i was inspecting it. all 6 have been exposed. containers had very little sphagnum and reaked like swampy old water. they are in quarantine and i wont even allow them into my quarantine room! thoughts? opinions? 









































sorry for the blurry photos and frustration. kristy


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Raise H*LL with the person you bought them from. I'd be DEMANDING my money back IN FULL.

Then spread the word about who this person is so it doesn't happen to someone else.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

wow!! i can't beleive they even shipped them out, i had a frog that came in like that once and it was some sort of parasitic infection, he didn't make it though.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

gary1218 said:


> Raise H*LL with the person you bought them from. I'd be DEMANDING my money back IN FULL.
> 
> Then spread the word about who this person is so it doesn't happen to someone else.


EDITED..... i am going to call the vendor and my credit card company and i am worried i dont have thick enough skin i need for this. i touched it! so disgusted! EDITED........ stagnant water, they need to be shut down. i wouldnt be surprised if they had everything as far as diseases. I was taken advantage of. this is how i feel.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

kristy55303 said:


> this is supposed to be Edited.... i am going to call the vendor and my credit card company and i am worried i dont have thick enough skin i need for this. i touched it! so disgusted! nobody that Edited....stagnant water, they need to be shut down. i wouldnt be surprised if they had everything as far as diseases. I was taken advantage of. this is how i feel.


Not trying to defend the vendor if indeed they were damaged to begin with however... I have had large frogs get damaged (nose rubs and the like) during transit from jumping around trying to escape containers.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

this is uncalled for. not a shipping issue trust me. i understand what you r saying, this is a disease issue. kristy


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

kristy55303 said:


> ... containers had very little sphagnum and reaked like swampy old water. ...(


Again, not necessarily trying to defend the vendor but I use very little sphagnum when shipping as I have had frogs drown from using too much sphagnum (and water). They get tossed around quite a bit in shipping. Definitely contact them and explain what happened and send them the photos. Don't be accusatory at first and see if they will work with you. If not, let 'em have it.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

good advice and what i plan.  kristy


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

kristy55303 said:


> this is uncalled for. not a shipping issue trust me. i understand what you r saying, this is a disease issue. kristy


How do you know it is a disease? The pictures look like standard skin rubs.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

those aer not yoru stnadard skin rubs that a frog would get in transit


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Keep in mind that some of the larger vendors will buy wholesale lots for resale and may not even realize there is an issue. It's possible the frogs came into the vendor and went straight to you without ever leaving their deli cups. In no way am I defending the vendor, just giving some possible reasons why a reputable vendor might send obviously sick frogs to you. Either way, I certainly hope you don't have any trouble rectifying the problem. I've received some frogs in pretty tough shape myself on numerous occassions myself. As a result we are very particular about where we obtain our darts.

Good luck with them...


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

Julio said:


> those aer not yoru stnadard skin rubs that a frog would get in transit


thank you julio. this is not ok nor am i here to argue about it. i would never do this to a customer, nor would i ever send out frogs like this. dishonest business practices at its worst IMO kristy


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

JL-Exotics said:


> Keep in mind that some of the larger vendors will buy wholesale lots for resale and may not even realize there is an issue. It's possible the frogs came into the vendor and went straight to you without ever leaving their deli cups. In no way am I defending the vendor, just giving some possible reasons why a reputable vendor might send obviously sick frogs to you. Either way, I certainly hope you don't have any trouble rectifying the problem. I've received some frogs in pretty tough shape myself on numerous occassions myself. As a result we are very particular about where we obtain our darts.
> 
> Good luck with them...



thanks and i undertsand where you are coming from. I was told before being sent that they were in fact some of the nicest ones the vendor had. "handpicked" was the exact quote. kristy


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Julio said:


> those aer not yoru stnadard skin rubs that a frog would get in transit


Again, I may be wrong in this case, but I have seen the same happen in transit. Put a terribilis in a deli cup and watch what he does. Now think of him doing that for a period of 20 or so hours.


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

This is my take from my experience with other amphibians and not darts. Nor am I a vet.

The Nose rub and what not I could see being an intransit thing

The protrusion looks a bit like a tapeworm or fungal infection tho hard to tell with pictures. This is common in both amphibians and fish. Both are treatable. I'm sure you are going to contact a vet which is exactly what I would be doing right now. Find out what it is and also contact the vendor but I wouldn't blow up right away. Things like that can pop up overnight tho that does look like it's been there awhile.

I would say if they were frogs I got the first priority for me would be to make sure and get them treatment asap. Advising the vendor at this point would be good as they can't say you waited however, if argued with I would let them know that you'll be contacting them after 1) vet diagnosis 2) frog dies. I wouldn't put all your energy into the vendor at the moment past an informational call so that you can say you advised them asap.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

advised. i was told to freeze it. kristy


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

kristy55303 said:


> advised. i was told to freeze it. kristy


I may have missed what this pertains to, but if one dies, not not freeze it. Put in in high proof vodka. 
Also, if you end up keeping these frogs and it turns out to be something other than a shipping issue, which it looks like to me, you may want to pass along the med costs to that 'vendor' minor edit...

Rich


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

Rich Frye said:


> I may have missed what this pertains to, but if one dies, not not freeze it. Put in in high proof vodka.
> Also, if you end up keeping these frogs and it turns out to be something other than a shipping issue, which it looks like to me, you may want to pass along the med costs to that vendor Edit
> Rich


lol rich good idea. Edit....i was told to freeze it alive! kristy


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## dwdragon (Aug 14, 2008)

kristy55303 said:


> lol rich good idea. i wouldnt say it is the vendor of all vendors to me no more i was told to freeze it alive! kristy


Unless that was from a vet I wouldn't until you get a vets opinion. But that's me I don't give up on animals unless I know they cannot be treated without causing more trauma then I feel an animal should go through.


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

kristy55303 said:


> lol rich good idea. i wouldnt say it is the vendor of all vendors to me no more i was told to freeze it alive! kristy


Slow torture? And for something that may be fixable ?Nah. 
Too bad you don't have a vet close to take these darts to. Kind of hard sometimes to tell by pics.

Rich


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

yeah i know.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

dwdragon said:


> Unless that was from a vet I wouldn't until you get a vets opinion. But that's me I don't give up on animals unless I know they cannot be treated without causing more trauma then I feel an animal should go through.


no no no not freezing any darts or giving up. not what i meant came out wrong sorry. if it died i would do what rich suggested kristy


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

My only question is whether this post was made after the vendor in question was contacted and refused to work with you on your concern or did you simply post this right after receipt?

I advise anyone who has an issue with a transaction to work directly with the seller prior to posting on a board such as the DB. I suspect you will find resolution more readily that way.

Clearly the frogs have something going on and working with a vet in addition is advised. But getting 3 pages of comments from helpful members (but non-vets) probably hasn't moved the needle one way or another.

I'll give Rich a half cookie point for helpful advice though 

Bill


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Thanks Bill. Those were my thoughts too.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

JL-Exotics said:


> Keep in mind that some of the larger vendors will buy wholesale lots for resale and may not even realize there is an issue. It's possible the frogs came into the vendor and went straight to you without ever leaving their deli cups. In no way am I defending the vendor, just giving some possible reasons why a reputable vendor might send obviously sick frogs to you. Either way, I certainly hope you don't have any trouble rectifying the problem. I've received some frogs in pretty tough shape myself on numerous occassions myself. As a result we are very particular about where we obtain our darts.
> 
> Good luck with them...


I know you are not defending the vendor, just trying to come up with an answer as to why. This is really no excuse. I have seen and heard unbelievable stories about some top vendors who advertise here on Dendroboard. It is really too bad we cannot compile these issues so future people do not have these problems.


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

Assuming that they were hurt in transport they still need to be treated in order to avoid further infection. I would contact a vet for advice on treating it if your not familiar for how to take care of it. 

I agree with Robb that this is something that could have happened in shipping. I've seen a terribilis getting beat up in 15 minutes that looks worse than your pictures because someone put a fruit fly container lid on top of the deli cup it was in. Terribilis can get marked up pretty easily and they really don't like being confined.

In addition, your giving hints on who the vendor is and I'd really avoid that if I were you. The conversation your having on this board really should be happening with the vendor. I'm sure if this person has had terribilis any length of time they know how to treat this.

Good luck with them. Definitely don't freeze them. If you must put them down there are much more humane ways of doing it. A quick look through the archives can find out more info. I seem to remember a thread on Frognet too about humane ways to put a frog down.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Nose rub is definately something that can happen with any frog in transit, however the large hole in the back looks like it had a worm that broke out of the skin. :/


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I have treated nose rubs many times with a dap of Neosprin, always has been successful. I have also seen parasites break through the skin of WC darts, never captive bred, I have removed with tweazer and the skin healed back pretty quick. Both of these scenarios were with otherwise healthy frogs.
I also agree with Robb that big frogs can damage themselves very quickly in shipping containers especially if there were sharp edges where holes were punched.
Good luck with your animals.
Mark


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

thank you. i will not say vendor publicly. i should just keep it to myself but wonder why someone would ship out darts like this? morally? i did contact vendor minute picked up. i contacted again and a resolution has been resolved. now that is moral. this is the resolution. send bk frogs at vendors expense and get full refund. didnt check before sending out. all in all i believe this to be a good solution. i do hope they are ok. i am a huge fan and advocate of dart frogs and their health. kristy


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Looking over this thread I notice a bit of a pattern. Most of the experienced froggers are saying - hey, this could be a shipping problem & that there is an issue that needs addressed. Contact the vendor & work with them vs posting on the board & get in contact with a vet as well.

While those less experienced are adding fuel to the fire in a way. 

Whose advise you choose to take is up to you. 

The frogs are very nice. Based on your comments I think I can safely say you have not had terribilis before. Scratches to their skin is extremely visible and looks like the pictures you have posted.


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## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i have terribillis. mints. are perfect in every way. but i have talked with vendor and am just sending back. i agree melissa. but i also believe In my own opinion, this is not just shipping. This should end this thread i hope. i will send back. I wish they arrived with just a bit of concern(i.e. minor nose rubs etc or a single shipping accident per say i can understand) , but not like this. it has been resolved now and i am moving on from the issue at hand. I am not a vet but i do know by loking at this frog in particular is not a shipping accident. photos can be hard to decipher as well. did my best. kristy


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

i understand the way it feels to receive some messed up frogs and Ive had my share get messed up in shipping, in Kristy's defense you can see in pic number 4 that the mark is not a rub or puncture but a protrusion or ulcerated sore which is not a typical shipping issue, not to say it isn't possible. i think this is a vendor oops and that is the best way for it to be resolved.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

This is a perfect example of why we can not allow vendor feedback. This is a witch hunt with "0" information or proof.

I am closing this thread as it is vendor feedback and there seems to be resolution.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

K

Is that the only frog affected?

Does that look like [in person] a broken bone protruding?? [ie: shipping trauma]. 

Rest might be 'nose rub'??

Other possibilities that come to mind are parasite coming through skin, or even fungal infection.

QT and get some diagnostics done [fecals]. Consider prophylactic bacterial/fungal treatment.

I wouldnt go euthanizing the animal yet 

Good luck,

S

*edit...wow, like 15 posts while I was typing and doing other stuff...my comments may no longer apply


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

kyle1745 said:


> This is a perfect example of why we can not allow vendor feedback. This is a witch hunt with "0" information or proof.
> 
> I am closing this thread as it is vendor feedback and there seems to be resolution.


I did some minor Editing to remove 'hints' that some members felt were identifying the vendor publicly....and I agreed.

In the future, it would be recommended that a resolution be first sought person to person between the parties involved, before someone takes out their camera and starts posting pics on this site in haste.

IME these things rarely need public laundering and almost always are resolved b/t the parties without issue.

Best,


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