# The F3+ appreciation thread



## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

Long term stability in captive populations is important. So this is an appreciation/photo thread for frogs of the 3rd and subsequent generations. You had grandad, dad, kid, or further all breeding happily for the last decade or so? Show them off here! I'm sure your newly purchased frogs are very nice- but that is for somewhere else. Showoff the line you've kept going! How far down the line are you? Tell us the story!


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

crickets... crickets....


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Offspring from a pair of red galacts I got in 97. I haven't bred them to 3rd generation yet. They have been here over a decade though.


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

Thanks for posting! They look beautiful!

What does everyone make of the low response? Are the F3+ frogs just not out there? 

Afemoralis


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## Daleo (Jan 31, 2012)

I imagine the majority of hobbyists don't keep and raise many offspring or that the distribution of dart frog owners is skewed towards the noobs. I think that the multigenerational concept is extremely important though.


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## dynekevin (May 24, 2011)

Ill bite.

Heres a F3 Imitator. 
I do not own the grand dad and mom. (may be able to get pictures of these)
I sold the dad and mom. (may have pictures of these)
But here is the grand daughter/daughter


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Afemoralis, are you looking for people who have F1-F3 all together in their collection? Many of my frogs are F1s or F2s from frogs collected 15-20+ years ago...so not brand new to the hobby, but still progeny from 'heritage' lines of frogs that have been around a good long while.

Offspring that I sell or trade would then be F2 or F3 frogs.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

F4 Bri Bris








F3 CITRONELLAS








F3 VERADERO









F3 ALMIRANTE


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

skylsdale said:


> Afemoralis, are you looking for people who have F1-F3 all together in their collection? Many of my frogs are F1s or F2s from frogs collected 15-20+ years ago...so not brand new to the hobby, but still progeny from 'heritage' lines of frogs that have been around a good long while.
> 
> Offspring that I sell or trade would then be F2 or F3 frogs.


My concern is not so much that the F's are all still alive, but that individual froggers are maintaining multiple generations of fully captive frogs....

Thanks to those who have posted, I was pleased to see the pumilio in there! Keep it going!


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Here are some of my leucs: I had the original adults, then held back a couple to adulthood, which produced many offspring... I held back a group of 5 of these offspring originally for a trade, but the deal fell through and I kept them. They began breeding and the first round of eggs from them just came ootw. I guess that makes the youngest F3 or F4.
Original male (also my first dart frog)









First female held back









One of 5 grandchildren held back









First offspring of the above frog










I also have 3 generations of azureus. Here's a picture of a male transporting a tad and a female, the female of the pair is one I held back from my first pair. 


















Some of my juvi pumilio just started calling, so hopefully I will have F3's soon. 









The mantellas have yet to make it past the F2 egg stage from F1 CB parents, but hopefully that will change the next clutch!

Bryan


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Just felt like bumping this thread, tis one of my favs.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

more crickets :-( but plenty of posts for spelling, frogs that are not legal, and more imports of the newest gotta have. 

My apologies to the OP for mini rant on his thread.

I just started to move this to the dome or better yet delete, but I realized my thought was really not to criticize. I fall under the same lures all the time. I just wanted point out to newer people that there are other ways of becoming an above average caretaker of dart frogs.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

srrrio said:


> I just wanted point out to newer people that there are other ways of becoming an above average caretaker of dart frogs.


I get what you're trying to say... but at the same time couldn't you argue that keeping F3s is somewhat undesirable? I may be interpreting it wrong, (very possible) but for the sake of genetic diversity, wouldn't you want to avoid continuing to inbreed and further the filial generation? I would think it would be better to take your F2s and put them with someone else's F2s (or F1s or whatever) and start another parental generation.


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## wasatchtrops (Jun 22, 2010)

carola1155 said:


> I get what you're trying to say... but at the same time couldn't you argue that keeping F3s is somewhat undesirable? I may be interpreting it wrong, (very possible) but for the sake of genetic diversity, wouldn't you want to avoid continuing to inbreed and further the filial generation? I would think it would be better to take your F2s and put them with someone else's F2s (or F1s or whatever) and start another parental generation.


I think Sally is repeating what has been said many times. She is not saying to line breed frogs for 3generations. More so who is breeding the same morph 3 generations out? A ton of cool frogs have been mismanaged, and lost to the hobby because we seem to have a compulsion to get the newest frogs. At microcosm, the talk was about picking a FEW morphs, multiple pairs, largest vivs possible... 
Not a 'Pokemon' collection in 10g tanks. Not looking the other way when panama sends another box of gotta have morphs. 
Not getting rid of a pair because they aren't producing in the 1st month. 

Back to the OP. in my short time in the hobby I have been able to get to breeding F2 offspring, but not F3 yet. Tads in water, so lets hope. Though I do have some in my collection!

Gabe


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Interesting thread....and if anybody has good information on habitat, breeding, etc. of particular frogs--these are the people to know


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Was this thread split? I see some tangents and don't follow how they came about?


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Yes ! Gabe that is exactly what I meant, thank you. 
I did reread the title of the thread and I can see where Tom is coming from, with the filial generation numbering thing, it gets confusing and means different things to different people. 

So as an example of how I am looking at it, I bought a single D. tinctorius “powder blue” froglet recently.This could be considered strange, as I have a tank full of my own powder blue froglets. However I plan to grow up a small group of them and when they are sexable I will pair one with the one I bought. When that pair has offspring, I will have 4 generations that are related in my collection: 
1 Original parents that were siblings
2 pair consisting of one offspring from above parents and unrelated powder blue
3 pair consisting of one offspring from the above parents with unrelated powder blue
4 offspring from the above pair 

Or 

I ended up with a female O. Pumilio “mancreek” F1 from wild caught 2004 import. Eventually found a male from same import. Recently I traded one of that pairs female offspring , for a male, presumably unrelated and descended from same import. So if that pair produce offspring, I will have 3 generations in my collection, but would still label any of offspring from either pair F1 (I think!)


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

They're not F3 but here are my F2 froglets and the parents. 

3 you can see 2 more in the leaf litter. 









Proud mom and dad









All are cohabitating a large viv along with another trio I've been keeping.


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