# Newby looking for Id's. Please.



## Capester (Oct 17, 2021)

Hi all, I have recently inherited a frog collection-I have kept reptiles and ambhibians for years but never darts so it is new to me. I have a few differ t species which I a fairly confident of the ids (mainly because they are obvious😅) but have a couple I a unsure of. One of which i presume is an imitator. Any help would be great thanks. The 1st and last are the same frog. Apologies for awful 2nd picture too. Cheers 👍


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I don't know the IDs, but please be aware that many keepers think, with very good reason, that breeding animals that didn't come with a definitive ID from the mouth of the actual breeder of the frogs is not responsible breeding. The future purity of animals in the hobby depends entirely on a solid and unbroken chain of trust that goes back to the original stock. 

Not implying you or anyone would do this, but just passing along information ahead of time.


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## Capester (Oct 17, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I don't know the IDs, but please be aware that many keepers think, with very good reason, that breeding animals that didn't come with a definitive ID from the mouth of the actual breeder of the frogs is not responsible breeding. The future purity of animals in the hobby depends entirely on a solid and unbroken chain of trust that goes back to the original stock.
> 
> Not implying you or anyone would do this, but just passing along information ahead of time.


Thanks for this but I only want to find out what I have. I do have 2 of one of them but only 1 of the other.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

While acknowledging you shouldn't breed these because a 100% positive ID is not possible - The second pic looks like the tesoros green/yellow d. auratus. I can't remember the name of the locale at the moment though.


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

I highly discourage you from breeding these frogs. Unfortunately, seeing as you do not have a positive ID, you will never know what these frogs are. Breeding and distributing unknown frogs is highly discouraged, because they will likely find their way into somebody else’s breeding group, muddying up their bloodlines. Beautiful frogs though!
-Oscar


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## Capester (Oct 17, 2021)

Why is everybody obsessed with me breeding or not breeding these frogs? Can people just not enjoy the hobby without breeding? I would like to know what they are so I can care for them correctly. Thanks to those that tried to id them but I must say I've not found some of the responses to my first 2 posts ever on the site particularly welcoming or friendly


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Capester said:


> Why is everybody obsessed with me breeding or not breeding these frogs? Can people just not enjoy the hobby without breeding? I would like to know what they are so I can care for them correctly. Thanks to those that tried to id them but I must say I've not found some of the responses to my first 2 posts ever on the site particularly welcoming or friendly


People are VERY sensitive to people having frogs of unknown origins, getting a tentative identification of them via photographs, and then people later either selling the frogs as what they were told they look like in the pictures, or breeding them and then selling the offspring as what they were told they were via the photographs. Pepple have seen this happen time and time again in this hobby and other animal-related hobbies, which is why many of us are so sensitive to it. 

As far as what they could be: first and last picture are most likely a Ranitomeya of some variety, could be imitator, could be another species altogether. 

Middle picture is far too blurry for me to make a guess at.


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## Capester (Oct 17, 2021)

I can understand that but tarring everyone with the same brush, especially when they are brand new members looking for a bit of guidance is not particularly welcoming. It's also the reason why I don't usually join forums. 2 posts and the same moderator jumping all over it. I'll go elsewhere cheers.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Capester said:


> Why is everybody obsessed with me breeding or not breeding these frogs? Can people just not enjoy the hobby without breeding? I would like to know what they are so I can care for them correctly. Thanks to those that tried to id them but I must say I've not found some of the responses to my first 2 posts ever on the site particularly welcoming or friendly


Keeping these frogs as close to their natural counterparts is a huge goal of the hobby. Many of these lines can be traced back a decade plus. Also, many of the locales we have were imported in small numbers only one or two times. If those lines get muddied with unidentifiable frogs, then decades of work at preserving that locale/species is up in smoke.


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

Capester said:


> I can understand that but tarring everyone with the same brush, especially when they are brand new members looking for a bit of guidance is not particularly welcoming. It's also the reason why I don't usually join forums. 2 posts and the same moderator jumping all over it. I'll go elsewhere cheers.


I (and I assume the others) apologize for any implied malice. We are all passionate about these animals, and want to preserve them for as long as possible. If you look back at threads, you will see us giving the same advise to every new dendrobatid herpetoculturist. This is not a criticism, or an attack on your character. This is generic advise that we all learned the same way. I appreciate your feedback on our approach towards providing the aforementioned advise. 
With all due respect, I will elaborate on our views. Many of these animals are threatened by extinction in the wild. For some, the private sector is vital for their conservation. In the world of dendrobatid herpetoculture, with a few exceptions, the term “morph” refer to a genetically distinct naturally occurring locality. If, for whatever reason, the frogs that you have obtained are a cross between different localities (which can often be undetectable), breeding them would make it harder to conserve individual localities. Furthermore, if the frogs are misidentified, they may be added to an otherwise pure breeding group, muddying the bloodline. There are a few other factors, including pathogen transfer, which can be important, but this is an abridged response. 
-Oscar


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Your Ranitomeya may be one of two species. Assuming you can hear the call, you can identify between variabilis and imitator easily - but the locales will be more tricky. It also helps that the striped locales of variabilis are not very popular or common, so this is more likely an imitator.

Ranitomeya variabilis: Most likely Borja Ridge, if this is a variabilis. Potentially Varadero/Rodyll as well.

Ranitomeya imitator: Most likely Baja Huallaga, but could easily be Yumbatos, Yurimaguensis or Yurimaguas.


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## Roscoe09 (Dec 30, 2017)

D. auratus “capurgana” is the second I’m willing to bet. Other auratus don’t compare to the yellowish green they have.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Roscoe09 said:


> D. auratus “capurgana” is the second I’m willing to bet. Other auratus don’t compare to the yellowish green they have.


Thanks. I new that locale started with a "C." And agree. No auratus in the hobby looks like them. Even their patterns seem a little unique.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I wonder if a similar looking locale cross could be created. Not impossible, certainly.

I've pushed people in similar cases in the larger herp world into admitting that their "locale X" animal is really some random animal that some poster on the internet said "looks a lot like locale X, IDK" and we all know how wishful thinking works. It seems to me that one good way to reduce this is to refuse completely to speculate on ID of locales based on appearance, even if in one specific case there's maybe more reason for confidence than in others. 

There are way too many misidentified animals (maybe misidentified? How would we know?) out there for this game to be any fun. IMO.

@Capester , I'm sorry you don't understand what's at stake, and why people on forums tend to take some things very seriously. All we can do is tell the truth, and hope people are receptive. There is no offense intended, since offending people doesn't help anything. It was apparently somewhat misunderstood that you were looking for basic species IDs, and not locale information, but that's a simple misunderstanding that should be simple to clarify.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I wonder if a similar looking locale cross could be created. Not impossible, certainly.
> 
> I've pushed people in similar cases in the larger herp world into admitting that their "locale X" animal is really some random animal that some poster on the internet said "looks a lot like locale X, IDK" and we all know how wishful thinking works. It seems to me that one good way to reduce this is to refuse completely to speculate on ID of locales based on appearance, even if in one specific case there's maybe more reason for confidence than in others.
> 
> ...


True. I shouldn't have speculated beyond D. auratus.


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## Capester (Oct 17, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I wonder if a similar looking locale cross could be created. Not impossible, certainly.
> 
> I've pushed people in similar cases in the larger herp world into admitting that their "locale X" animal is really some random animal that some poster on the internet said "looks a lot like locale X, IDK" and we all know how wishful thinking works. It seems to me that one good way to reduce this is to refuse completely to speculate on ID of locales based on appearance, even if in one specific case there's maybe more reason for confidence than in others.
> 
> ...


Once again "sorry you don't understand" - I understand perfectly thank you very much. I only wanted to know what species of frogs I have. That is it. Period. I did not mention breeding once, I just thought that finding out the type of frog was a responsible thing to do. I actually have a bachelors zoology degree with honours which shouldn't matter but I feel the need to say that I do hear loud and clear the concerns around bloodlines etc etc. To reiterate - I was not looking to breed the frogs and at no point did I say I was, I simply asked for Id's and when it got jumped all over with finger wagging and telling me what I should and shouldn't do i said again I wasn't looking to breed but still the condescending responses came! Thanks to those actually read the query and tried to respond in a helpful manner. I think the rest of you need to actually read the posts properly, get less obsessed with breeding and stop assuming that everyone with a post count of less than a million is an idiot.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Since no one needs this sort of response to helpfully intended information given freely, I think we'll close this thread.


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