# Bean Beetle Bean Experiment



## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I had a couple of thoughts I wanted to play with.We typically use Black Eyed Peas for our cultures.A couple of days ago I started 14 cultures which included the following beans: Navy,Pinto,Black,Pink,Canary,Great Northern,Lima,Lentil,Kidney,Small White,Chick peas,of course Black Eyed Peas,Whole Peas,and Whole Corn.
I was thinking that different beans have different nutritional value.I know the whole corn is not a bean but I figured it had the least nutrition value of them all and was worth throwing in there. Maybe better nutrition will cause them to bloom faster or bigger.Another thought was how the size of the bean affects the beetle if at all.It would be cool to have a beetle half the size.
On first inspection the beetles seemed to really like the whole peas.They were all over them.We'll see what happens.I will post results.
Lou


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Lou,

You may want to read over BeanBeetles.org/A Handbook on Bean Beetles: Laboratory Methods 

There are three good beans to use to rear the beetles but even though have differences in the time to emergence (it takes longer with adzuki and mung beans) than it does with blackeye peas (cowpeas). As noted in the link above, success with other types of beans is usually minimal. 


Ed


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey, Ed, don't be negative. I ran out of BE peas and had some extra red beans and am waiting results. Never hurts to try to duplicate scientific results. Re-inventing the wheel from time to time might actually be a good idea.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm not sure what your issue is - but citing personal experience and/or documented information, is pretty much what we do around here.

Sure, there is nothing wrong with trying something new/different - but it doesn't make one "negative" to cite documented information on a process someone is trying.

s


Freeradical53 said:


> Hey, Ed, don't be negative. I ran out of BE peas and had some extra red beans and am waiting results. Never hurts to try to duplicate scientific results. Re-inventing the wheel from time to time might actually be a good idea.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Freeradical53 said:


> Hey, Ed, don't be negative. I ran out of BE peas and had some extra red beans and am waiting results. Never hurts to try to duplicate scientific results. Re-inventing the wheel from time to time might actually be a good idea.


 
I wasn't trying to be a downer.. If you don't know how the conditions are going to affect the test, then you could get the wrong conclusions.. for example while in blackeye peas the generational time can be as short as three weeks, it takes 7 weeks in the same conditions. So you could be tossing out cultures thinking that they failed when they were working just fine... 

Ed


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Ed, Thanks for the read.It had a couple of interesting facts, however I didn't read that no other beans will work or have failed.No worries either way as all I have to lose is $20~in beans and the experiment is already under way. I figured if they work that some may take considerably longer than usual which is one of my objectives.As of now all beans,peas, and the corn are peppered with eggs so we will see how it goes.

Lou


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you read the manual there is the following sentence


> The successful completion of the bean beetle life cycle on most other bean species is minimal (Janzen 1977).


 which refers you to this reference Janzen, D.H. 1977. How southern cowpea weevil larvae (Bruchidae _Callosobruchus maculatus _) die on non-host seeds. Ecology 58:921-927

They can develop successfully in a number of beans but the level of success is reduced in many beans due to several factors including different metabolites found in the beans. 

Ed


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

I actually tried a control set-up to compare black-eyed peas, mung beans and adzuki beans for my cultures. I weighed the beans, then counted out the number of beetles for my starters. I realize there were variables I didn't control such as the age of the beetles used to start, but I felt it was close enough for my purposes.

I found almost no difference in the bloom in production or days from the set-up.

So for me, the factor for future cultures was how much cheaper it was to buy the peas and their availability. I could only buy the mung beans and adzuki beans in the health food bulk bins.

But when all was said and done, I let my cultures die out. I found it too much of a pain to sift out the beetles.

Deb


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

salix said:


> .
> 
> But when all was said and done, I let my cultures die out. I found it too much of a pain to sift out the beetles.
> 
> Deb


Interesting. To me it is the same amount of work as it is to sift out the flies. I place the cap with the mesh on the culture, turn it over a large funnel leading to the capture container with the supplements and shake it up and down a few time. This removes virtually all of the beetles which can be used for new cultures or for feeding out. 

Ambient temperature and humidity play a large role in the length of time to emergence, in the bean beetle reference linked above, beetles reared in adzuki beans can emerge as much as 7 weeks later than those reared on cow peas. I get the cow peas in bulk so they end up being really cheap even after shipping. 

Ed


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Ed, what size mesh do you use? I've been drilling holes in plastic lids and doing it that way, but end up with a few wayward bean halves/fragments to pick out at the end.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

tclipse said:


> Ed, what size mesh do you use? I've been drilling holes in plastic lids and doing it that way, but end up with a few wayward bean halves/fragments to pick out at the end.


The mesh I use is shown here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/60638-bean-beetle-collection-2.html#post526406 

I get some small beans and frass as well from this method but I usually collect so many beetles that I don't use the entire collection and simply freeze the stuff in the bottom of the cup and discard it. You can seen the amount I can collect in one of the pictures in the above thread. 

Ed


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## goncalo (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi,

Here some people say thats its bad to give bean beetle or wheat ones because they are too hard for them, is it bad to give them to auratus or anthonyi ?

Thanks,


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you look at the diet studies on wild dendrobatids, you will see that thier diet includes a lot of high chitin (and hard food items). One paper on the diet of D. auratus had 85% of the diet being ants and beetles... So those claims of "too hard" or "too much chitin" never made sense to me particularly since one study compared growth of lizards fed only mealworms to lizards fed only crickets and were able to document that growth on mealworms was greater than of lizards fed crickets and comparable to the controls which were fed both... 

Ed


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## goncalo (Jun 28, 2010)

Yes, that makes sense, because a guy here sayied that a dendro had a prolapse of the rectum but i guess it was not because of beetles


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Ed said:


> Hi Lou,
> 
> You may want to read over BeanBeetles.org/A Handbook on Bean Beetles: Laboratory Methods
> 
> ...


agreed. tried it...failed. 

Stick to Blackeye and Mung


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

goncalo said:


> Yes, that makes sense, because a guy here sayied that a dendro had a prolapse of the rectum but i guess it was not because of beetles


There are a lot of potential causes of prolapses in frogs including but not limited to (this doesn't list all of the potential causes), insufficient calcium, parasites, bacterial infection, and/or impaction from substrate ingestion. In most cases, the actual cause of the prolapse isn't determined and often impaction is the cause "diagnosed" without even consulting a vet or even some form of work-up to determine the acutal cause. 

Ed


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Just an update;So far just about all the seed beetles have died off.All beans,peas,and the corn have eggs all over them.Now we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Lou


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

RESULTS;I started the experiment on the 29th of june.The Black eyed peas as suspected was first out on the 25th of july and in full bloom by the 30th. After some of the posts I was slightly discouraged but experiment on.
I do have some very interesting results so far and it is still very early for most of the beans with little progress.However,the whole green peas are doing amazingly well! They started to hatch on the 1st of august.Today is the 7th and there are a lot of beetles swimming and reseeding the peas.Additionally the chick peas have started to hatch on the 3rd of august and are starting to produce.
I apologize in advance for the crappy pics but my better camera is not compatible with my computer as I am running an old program still.The first 3 pics show the whole peas.It is hard to see but the peas are filled with reseeders and the filter has a lot more under it.The last 2 pics are of the the chick peas.The pea shots in both cultures show some of the emergence exit holes.I will post more results when and if the other cultures start to produce.Maybe the trick is in the pea and not the bean. Lou


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Intersting Lou. What are prices of the peas compared to BEP?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

The BEP cost ~1.50 the whole peas cost .99 per bag.I don't know about bulk prices. 

Does anyone know of the best places to get bulk peas or beans?

Lou


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

oddlot said:


> The BEP cost ~1.50 the whole peas cost .99 per bag.I don't know about bulk prices.
> 
> Does anyone know of the best places to get bulk peas or beans?
> 
> Lou


I just got 25 lbs of black eyed peas from bulkfoods.com.. When looking at cost, you also need to compare whether or not a second generation is possible from the beans/peas. 

I routinely get two generations out of the blackeye peas that are pretty substantial. 


Ed


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I wanted to add that I still use whole peas in all of my cultures and did get several booms/generations when I used just whole peas in the experiment.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

oddlot said:


> I wanted to add that I still use whole peas in all of my cultures and did get several booms/generations when I used just whole peas in the experiment.


While not substantial once I've gotten past three, I've counted at least 6 emergences from black eye peas with no additional beans added to the cultures. 

Ed


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

I've heard from a couple people that they are very picky with their beans and will only reproduce in black eyed peas or mung beans. I've only tried black eyes peas though and I have very successful cultures. Let me know if it works that would be exciting to find new beans for them! 


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