# little worried about male azureus



## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

i picked up this pair as a 12-month old sexed pair about a month and a half ago and they are living in their new viv. i feed hydei daily, the temp is around 73 and the humidity stays around 85-90. this is a 30g high, but nearly the full ground area is available to roam, etc. it's pretty well planted and has leaf litter, so there are plenty of hiding spots. the male was a good deal smaller than the female when i received the pair, but i'm worried that he may be losing weight. i've watched him eat several times and while he does get flies, it looks many times like he's missing or having some sort of trouble. in the past 2 or 3 days he seems to be doing a lot of sitting and staring at the wall, kind of like he's doing in the pics i attached although in those the female is nose-to-nose with him. the male is on the left side of the pics and the female on the right. i know they're not great shots, but hopefully you can appreciate the size difference and maybe notice something that i haven't. let me know if there's any other info i can provide. (i've provided links to the pics since they're so big)

ImageShack -

thanks!

p.s. - woo this is my 100th post


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Looks fine to me. Good size on limbs and you can clearly see some "belly weight".

Male Azureus are always gonna look a little thin and "streamlined" esp when next to the big mommas.

Are you using good and fresh supplements?

Try some Hydei larvae in a little bowl to perk him up.

I have some Tinc species, most notably a male Saul that is def too thin, although they say that's even expected for that species, or so I'm told.

I think your male is good to go.


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

yeah i just bought both my vitamins and calcium supplements in july, so i think they're still good to go... thanks for the encouragement


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Hey there! Had this same problem with my male. It was just getting me so worried. My male was doing the same thing (still does sortta but following these steps got him to improve incredibly).

Here's what I did: I used a spray bottle and filled it with tap water. I then took the liquid calcium supplement and put several drops into that, mixing it. Everyday I spray the cage with the calcium bottle sprayer so that not only the male gets misted with the calcium water, but all the plants get hit with it as well so when he crawls on them he picks up more of the water.

Remember: this is not the dry calcium powder. It is the liquid calcium water conditioner, like the one I linked above.

This improved him drastically. He still misses from time to time, but that's normal. He's so fat now and doing well. I feel this will certainly improve your frog. Let us know if you still are having issues.


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright i'll give this a shot, thanks


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright i went out last night and got the supplement and began spraying him. today i put food right in front of him and he didnt even try for it. hopefully the supplement will help him.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

You may want to seperate the frogs even though they had been together as sold....

just your general help desk stuff..

1. Seperate.
2. Increase heat and humidity slightly.
3. No disturbances or contact.

You could also try another food item....small phoenix or wax worms, FF larvae, a different type of FF ect


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright i will make a quarantine tank for the little guy tomorrow and see if i can scoop some ff larvae out of a culture for him... thanks for the help thus far


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## Dragonfly (Dec 5, 2007)

Unless you properly age your tap water and also get the chloramine removed (if present) as it doesn't disipate with aging you should avoid tap water. You can use a reliable spring water or even ro or distilled with blackwater extract or ro right to get the correct balance on the water.

See what his appetite is like in a temp qt type container. If he seems to have an appetite issue you should contact Dr Frye - he can help with issues - he has a good pdf emergency kit and suggestions... make some solid notes on his overall behaviours as well so you can ask for good info on the board and from Dr Frye

As for your supplements, make sure you keep them sealed tightly, don't combine before use, keep away from humidity and heat. Also, always check the dates on the supplements you buy prior to purchase. It won't help to follow the 6 month rule if the supplements are old to begin with.

I wouldn't say he looks too thin, she might even be a little on the "fluffy" side, so watch to make sure she doesn't have an obesity problem develop...


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright well he's now in his qt container. i usually use distilled water from the grocery store. i'll keep an eye on him. he hopped around and such when i put him in the container and eyed a fly for a bit, but for the most part he's just sitting around. the humidity in the container is nice and high and the temp is sitting around 73 F.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

If you are leery of aged tap water....use store bought spring water.

Do not use distilled water....it's too pure.


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright i'll get that tomorrow


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Distilled water is fine for spraying. It`s also fine for a soak dish if there is dirt or mud in the container.



Philsuma said:


> If you are leery of aged tap water....use store bought spring water.
> 
> Do not use distilled water....it's too pure.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Cool....we just confused the new guy.

Good job, both of us


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright so day 2 in qt and the little guy is still sitting there and doesn't seem to have eaten any of the flies i gave him yesterday. what is the next step here? i'm dusting his flies with supplements that i checked the date on and bought only 3 months ago. i'm spraying him down with the diluted calcium supplement as was previously mentioned, and he is in qt.

as a side note, after taking her counterpart out of the tank yesterday, the lady frog has now climbed into a brom on the background and seems to be hiding. she came out for food when i sprinkled them on the leaf she was in, but then she scooted back into her little pool in the brom leaf. maybe she thinks i'm out to get her too?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> Cool....we just confused the new guy.
> 
> Good job, both of us


This is how rumors get started. I`m trying to head off any confusion. I`ve been using it for 14 years.
Sorry to hijack the thread.


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Hope he is doing better. I am hopin for you.


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

last night the little guy seemed to be moving around a bit more, didn't seem to have eaten, but he did try to escape when i sprayed him. i guess that's a good sign?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

gillenws said:


> last night the little guy seemed to be moving around a bit more, didn't seem to have eaten, but he did try to escape when i sprayed him. i guess that's a good sign?


Is there a reason you are spraying the frog directly?

You could be causing stress with animals by "doing too much". Sometimes it's better to not even look in on them for a while, let alone spray them directly.


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

i've been spraying him directly with a diluted calcium supplement to correct a potential hypocalcemia, just once a day at feeding time


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

today i scooped some maggots out of a new culture and attempted to feed him... still not interested. i'm considering tube-feeding with the feline clinicare... anyone have any experience with this?


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright so i got back into town this afternoon and my gf and i attempted to feed the little guy something along the lines of the clinicare that was suggested in another thread. needless to say it was quite a production. he got a decent amount of it in his mouth and i think he swallowed it, but i'm not sure how much he enjoyed the whole experience. i know that stress can easily kill a young froglet, but i feel as though malnutrition for this guy, being a year old, is more harmful than some handling.

oh yeah, also when we got back this afternoon he seemed to be hopping around ok and he tried really hard to escape when i took the lid off of his container. we tried to tempt him to eat with some dusted ff but he was just not interested. any thoughts always appreciated


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

ok...just so I understand...

The frog is a year old and not a froglet?

Is it decent size....like quarter size or bigger and does it have some chubbiness to it? It's not emaciated and thin or "V" shaped with a tiny waist ?


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

phil, that's correct he's a year old... i'll get a close-up of him tomorrow next to a quarter. he looks to me like he's lost a decent amount of weight since i got him. he also used to at least try for food as soon as it went into his viv and then began just sitting around staring at the wall.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

ok....I was confused because I saw the words "froglet" and "year old".....

Try to get a pic on here asap.....you will stand a MUCH better chance if we can see the frog really well and then comment and advise.

Do you have more or less steady temps and what are they?


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

yeah the temps are steady... the whole condo is set to 71F. he's not in a viv under a light right now so that's his temp.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

perhaps get a fcal sent to Dr Frye. I had a runty little auratus in a similar situation, I was told by Frye to try metronidizole, as it is an appetite stimulant as well as antibacterial/antiprotozoal


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

the member i got the pair from had fecals run on them and at that time they were clean. that is not to say that they still are. i've attached some photos of the frog in question. sorry about the poor quality. again, this is a male, 1 year old frog, and all pics are the same frog.

thanks


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

ok...the good news is that your frog has some decent size to it, so you do not have to be in "emergency mode".

Sometimes people mistake an animal that does not immediately and readily take food for something being horribly wrong.

Your frog may actually be eating flies when you are not around, or you may think that since some flies are still in the enclosure, that none were consumed, when in fact, a few were.

I would up the temps for the enclosure to 75F

I would wait 2 whole days without ANY feeding or opening of the lid at all. Give the frog a break and no stressors for 2 days.

I would then try a different type of FF...like a melano. Something other than what you had tried in the past. Maybe a DB member closeby has a FF culture unlike yours that they will give you to help out?

I would not try to force feed the frog.

...just my opinions.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Is there something going on with his eye in the 2nd picture on the top, or am I just seeing things? ( entirely possible)

John


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## laylow (Apr 6, 2009)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Is there something going on with his eye in the 2nd picture on the top, or am I just seeing things? ( entirely possible)
> 
> John


I think what your seeing is actually a water drop on the glass that makes his eye look funny.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

laylow said:


> I think what your seeing is actually a water drop on the glass that makes his eye look funny.


Yea, like I said-it was me!
Thanks.

John


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright this is the same guy... still in quarantine and looks to me like he's put a little weight on. today when i opened his top he opened his mouth and is just sitting there with it open (pic below). anyone know what it means when they do this?

edit - i also just saw him do something very strange... i put some flies right in front of him and he didn't go after them, however he opened his mouth and used his front legs to kind of wipe his mouth/tongue. i have no idea what he was doing, but maybe it'll ring a bell for someone else


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## hukilausurfer (Aug 31, 2009)

That sounds almost exactly like what one of my azureus froglets was doing before it died. Not sure what it is but sounds like the same symptoms.


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

after doing some asking around it sounds like the scraping motions with his hands is him shedding. i still think sitting with his mouth opens is a little strange. he's still hanging in there though.


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

so today i soaked the little guy in a solution i made from my vitamin supplement for 20 minutes or so, and when i put him back in his quarantine container he started trying to eat!!! hopefully another soak or two and some well dusted flies will fix him up


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