# Weird Stuff - Southern Variabilis



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm keeping a 2.2 group of southern variabilis. Over the past six months I've finally gotten breeding to occur, although infrequently. Also I know that there's been egg eating going on as I find the occasional vacant jelly mass. I found one clutch that had been stomped out too. Which is why I was rather surprised when I found this:










That is two individual clutches (one of 4 and one of 5) laid on the same day, and both are intact. I left them in the viv for a few days just to start getting some development before pulling them. Has anyone ever witnessed something like this? Not so much the two clutches on the same day, as much as two territorial frogs using the same film canister to lay and ignoring the other clutch... it's something I've never heard of.

As a side note, I've been having trouble getting these guys out of the egg. I know I need to switch my supplements (it's getting to be about that time), but I'm wondering if anyone could provide a suggestion. In six months I've gotten one in the water and that one got an air bubble and died a couple of weeks ago :/ Troublesome frogs....


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

hey jake,

i have a 1.2 trio that always breed like this. my females are slightly territorial and wrestle sometimes, but they always wind up in a canister with the male. you could try separating the smaller male. theres a chance hes the one smashing eggs.

as for the tadpole problems, i went through the same things. it took me around a year i think for any tadpoles to morph out. and before that eggs constantly went bad and tadpoles wouldnt make it past growing their back legs. just be patient.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Heres my thought on the situation. The dominant female (the egg eater) laid a lutch first, and the submissive female laid second. With the groups that I have where egg eating occur, there is one female that does all the egg eating, not both the females.

Awesome job with the eggs


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I actually have a 3.2 group of Nominant Variabilis that always lay in the same film canister or brom axial. I've seen no aggression or egg eating, which is why I have kept them together. I've gotten over 50 tads from them in the past 3 months or so. Here's a few photos of what I call their frog party.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

JimO said:


> I actually have a 3.2 group of Nominant Variabilis that always lay in the same film canister or brom axial. I've seen no aggression or egg eating, which is why I have kept them together. I've gotten over 50 tads from them in the past 3 months or so. Here's a few photos of what I call their frog party.
> 
> View attachment 18559
> View attachment 18560
> ...


I get the same thing with my 1.2 group of varadero......


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks for the responses.

When I first got these frogs I was told they would breed most in film canisters oriented at about a 30 degree angle up with a little water in the bottom. Mine seem to prefer the _one_ film canister that is mounted in great stuff and oriented at a 25 degree angle downward, where all the water drains out.... Weird. *shrug*


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Thanks for the responses.
> 
> When I first got these frogs I was told they would breed most in film canisters oriented at about a 30 degree angle up with a little water in the bottom. Mine seem to prefer the _one_ film canister that is mounted in great stuff and oriented at a 25 degree angle downward, where all the water drains out.... Weird. *shrug*


Dang frogs and their own agenda.....lol


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Azurel said:


> Dang frogs and their own agenda.....lol


Guess it just goes to show that individual frogs have their own personalities....


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## Ulisesfrb (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm witnessing this as I write. Today the dominant female mated with the male first. Later the submissive female was guided by the male to the same canister and they are mating there right now next to the other clutch. There are times when both females are in the canister with the male at the same time, but cannot confirm them mating at the same time.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Guess it just goes to show that individual frogs have their own personalities....


What I am wondering with mine is if both females know which tads are theirs once dropped off. I haven't had any in 2 weeks the one in viv right now is from the second female and I pulled the first female's tad last week. Then I started to wonder.....To late now to find out but I have been trying to keep an eye on the film canister with the tad to see if the first female drops any eggs for it to eat....

Something to think about and observe once you start getting tads dropped. I looked and couldn't find much out there on differant females feeding tads that are not their own.


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## rmetke (Apr 17, 2013)

JimO said:


> I actually have a 3.2 group of Nominant Variabilis that always lay in the same film canister or brom axial. I've seen no aggression or egg eating, which is why I have kept them together. I've gotten over 50 tads from them in the past 3 months or so. Here's a few photos of what I call their frog party.
> 
> View attachment 18559
> View attachment 18560
> ...


This is probably a stupid question but the 1.2 and 3.2 abbreviation is regarding ratio of males to females correct? Or other way around? I've been researching keeping a group of Southern Variabilis and trying to determine what the right size group is for a 60g set up. I have read that female heavy groups tend to work the best. Is that your experience? Thanks for your insight.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

The X.Y.Z naming convention shows the number of males, females, and unsexed frogs in a group, where:
X = males
Y = females
Z = unsexed


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

thank you for confirming this. i have a 1.2 trio too and eggs are consistantly bad. they've been bad for about 4 or more months. this just confirms im not crazy and have been changing my supplements every six months. about how long did it take for them to start giving good eggs? i haven't noticed any egg eating with my trio.



thedude said:


> hey jake,
> 
> i have a 1.2 trio that always breed like this. my females are slightly territorial and wrestle sometimes, but they always wind up in a canister with the male. you could try separating the smaller male. theres a chance hes the one smashing eggs.
> 
> as for the tadpole problems, i went through the same things. it took me around a year i think for any tadpoles to morph out. and before that eggs constantly went bad and tadpoles wouldnt make it past growing their back legs. just be patient.


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## jibfest (Dec 1, 2010)

I thought I'd add my experience with my southerns. I had a couple that turned out both to be female. I acquired a calling male from UE & within a few days started to get eggs. They have laid all in black filmcanisters at a 45 degree angle with a little water & white film canister cut outs inside (also I have noticed they prefer clean water over the canisters with dead flies & crud in the bottom) I have not experianced bad eggs or any egg eating or aggression. I just use the norm of repashy calcium & repashy vit A once per week. As far as tads go all so far are healthy & doing well. I actually had my first froglet crawl ootw today & he also looks to be in great shape with no signs of sls. I know there are a thousand dif opinions on rearing tads but this is what has worked for me. I use the water I have siphoned out of the other frog tanks which has had a chance to gather tannins from leaves etc as the initial tad water. I top this up as it evaporates with spring bottled water. Each deli cup has a little piece of java along with some duck weed. I keep the cups under light so as to keep the water temps up a couple degrees & it does well for the java & duck weed. The tads are fed about once per week on a diet of crushed mini algae wafers, tad bites, premium color flakes fish food and blood worms. Alot of this is common knowledge as we all know and as I said lots of diff opinions, but this what works for me. Persistence and a little patience goes a long way. I hope this has helped some have success with their Southerns.


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