# Underestimated how much ventilation I would need..



## Spuddy (Jun 26, 2017)

Ok so I recently setup a 60x45x60 Exo Terra for my leucomelas, I had a custom glass top made to replace the old mesh lid. 

I've planted it all up and its been growing in for the last 2-3 weeks'ish. However what this has allowed me to do is make sure there are no problems with the build *BEFORE* moving the frogs in. 

One thing I have noticed is, there is a lot of mist/condensation on the inside of the Exo doors making it pretty tricky to see inside, and kinda ugly looking! There is also a lot of water on the roof of the Exo. This includes after *NOT* spraying for upto 5 days.

So:

Humidity - *CHECK*
Airflow - *UNCHECK*


Clearly there isn't enough airflow inside my terrarium, I think the addition of no see um mesh on the inside of the vents below the doors has further worsened this problem. 

Im obviously going to have to add vents to the lid of my tank somehow. But the real question is how, my DIY skills are pretty much non-existent to say the least. Also, I see you guys on the forum mentioning Lowe's quite often and buying the pieces from there to make your own mesh lid which is great. 


Only problem is Im in the UK and we don't have such a shop unfortunately for me to go out and replicate your shopping lists. That being said, can anyone offer ideas on how I can make a nice neat vented portion within the lid of my tank, either by adding to the glass, or shortening the glass. Glass is 4mm thick if that helps. 



Thanks,
Danny.


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## Diesel (Jul 31, 2017)

Hi there,
On my QT/growout tank I have a solid glass lit but I drilled 4 one inch holes in the top and siliconed some mesh on that.
On one I have a small 2" fan that runs on a timer that comes on 10 min every hour and blows air into the viv.
On my exoterra tanks I cut glass that is 3" shorter and made me a screen vent from window materials. 
You can buy the kits also online and have it shipped.
My friends at Bulkreef supplies had it and they shipp overseas but ask for a quote first. 
Good luck my friend.


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## Spuddy (Jun 26, 2017)

Diesel said:


> Hi there,
> On my QT/growout tank I have a solid glass lit but I drilled 4 one inch holes in the top and siliconed some mesh on that.
> On one I have a small 2" fan that runs on a timer that comes on 10 min every hour and blows air into the viv.
> On my exoterra tanks I cut glass that is 3" shorter and made me a screen vent from window materials.
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions man.

When you say window materials, can you elaborate a little more please? Links and images would be useful for me so I know what to visually look for in the hardware stores over here. 

Also, did you silicone fabric mesh or metal mesh? 

I have found a UK alternative of the Bulkreef supplies one you mentioned, however I feel it is a little bit on the expensive side for what is essentially mesh and aluminium for £30+. 


Best,
Danny


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

So, you have zero vents in the lid? That will be tough to generate passive ventilation. Fans can help, but if you are only venting from below the doors, that will be tough to augment with fans.

If you have zero vents in the lid, I would definitely try to figure out how to get some in there. As diesel said, drilling is an option. I drill all of my tanks for drainage. It's not that hard. Pumilo has a great training video on here somewhere. Another option is to have a glass cutter cut the last 3 or so inches off the back and cover that with Noseeum mesh. If you go this route, save the piece of glass. You can set it on the back to control how much ventilation you are getting.


Mark


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## JoeKitz (Sep 18, 2017)

I think most people are using No-See-Um mosquito mesh for their screen vents which is not metal.


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## Hercrabit (Oct 6, 2016)

This might help: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63781-screen-vent-construction-how.html


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Mark is spot-on. 
Vivs heat up from the light. Yes, even led lights add heat. Heat rises. _Your_ heat rises and and is trapped. Put a vent in the lid, so you have one down low, and one up high, and you can take advantage of that rising heat, instead of it crippling your airflow. 
A vent in the top changes things. You actually create a bit of a convection current. Heat rises and flows freely out the top, actually sucking fresh air in at the bottom. The motion is slight, and you won't see leaves moving in the breeze, but you have actually created a slight breeze by adding that top vent. Walla! Moving air with no fan! 

That said, I love a good internal fan, in addition to a proper, dual, passive vent system, to add some air motion. Air motion is key to some plants, like miniature orchids.

In my opinion, a good vent is more important. A fan is icing on the cake, and swings open the doors on the plants you can start keeping.


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## Spuddy (Jun 26, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestions guys but I think some of you have misread my OP. 

I've seen the guide for the vent construction with materials from Lowe's but like I explained - I don't have that shop over here in the UK. So Im looking for alternative/universal solutions.

Im also not interested in adding fans, definitely not in the immediate future anyways. I just need a way to create a vent in the top somehow. 


The plastic on the Exo Terra mesh tops, could I adhesive that to the metal mesh, if so which substance would be best to use? I could somehow modify and make the original mesh lid smaller. However I would need to use the correct adhesive as to not melt the plastic.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Spuddy said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys but I think some of you have misread my OP.
> 
> I've seen the guide for the vent construction with materials from Lowe's but like I explained - I don't have that shop over here in the UK. So Im looking for alternative/universal solutions.
> 
> ...


You said you have a custom glass top that is already made for your tank. If you have a piece of glass for the top, you don't need the metal mesh. I just tear mine out and save the plastic frame that sits in the top molding. The metal will eventually rust, anyway. 

Doug and I both had suggestions for how to modify the custom glass top you said you had made for the top of your Exo. You can drill holes in the top and cover with some sort of mesh (I use NoSeeUm mesh or just plain old fiberglass screen used for windows). Or, if you aren't comfortable drilling or can't find the diamond hole saw, I suggested having your piece of glass cut short by three or so inches at the back of the top and covering the vent with NoSeeUm mesh (or fiberglass screen) by siliconing or hot gluing that in place. No need for the screen frame pieces in the link that Hercrabit posted, though that is a more elegant solution  

Are we not understanding what you mean by "custom glass top"? Maybe we are thinking of something different. 

Mark


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

I think he was referring to the window screen kit to make the vent, if I understand correctly, anyway. Still, they have windows there, right? Surely there are window screen kits somewhere in the UK, even if there are no Lowe's stores. There's also the possibility of making an online purchase for that. They are really cheap.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Actually, window screens are mostly a US thing. I had a window salesman from England apply for a job once. He had no idea what these weird mesh things in our windows were for. He said they just didn't have much problem with bugs.


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## Spuddy (Jun 26, 2017)

Yeah thats right guys, no such thing as window screens over here that I've ever heard of to be honest. Lots of bugs coming in the house isn't a problem we really have over here. 

Lowe's don't seem to ship to the UK, plus I expect I'll get absolutely stung on import fees. 




Encyclia said:


> You said you have a custom glass top that is already made for your tank. If you have a piece of glass for the top, you don't need the metal mesh. I just tear mine out and save the plastic frame that sits in the top molding. The metal will eventually rust, anyway.
> 
> Doug and I both had suggestions for how to modify the custom glass top you said you had made for the top of your Exo. You can drill holes in the top and cover with some sort of mesh (I use NoSeeUm mesh or just plain old fiberglass screen used for windows). Or, if you aren't comfortable drilling or can't find the diamond hole saw, I suggested having your piece of glass cut short by three or so inches at the back of the top and covering the vent with NoSeeUm mesh (or fiberglass screen) by siliconing or hot gluing that in place. No need for the screen frame pieces in the link that Hercrabit posted, though that is a more elegant solution
> 
> ...



I was referring more to the comments about the Lowe's hardware kit and fans etc rather than yours specifically.

Thats correct I have a glass piece measuring 580mm x 430mm with two small cutouts to go around the front door hinges and it fits very snugly onto the roof of the Exo Terra. 

Im a bit uncomfortable drilling the glass to be honest. Would that even provide enough ventilation? 

I was thinking of placing the vents at the front above the door because one of my main aims is to directly reduce condensation that is settling on the glass doors - inhibiting me from seeing in. I was thinking of somehow using the old Exo Terra mesh top and cutting it to size and using that for ventilation as it already has cutouts for the door hinges too.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Spuddy said:


> Yeah thats right guys, no such thing as window screens over here that I've ever heard of to be honest. Lots of bugs coming in the house isn't a problem we really have over here.
> 
> Lowe's don't seem to ship to the UK, plus I expect I'll get absolutely stung on import fees.
> 
> ...


Ok, this helps me understand the problem. I am still not sure I am 100% certain about what your screen top looks like. It sounds like maybe you are still using the plastic insert that contains the metal mesh and setting the glass on top of that? Is that right? If so, I would tear out the metal mesh since it will probably end up rusting. That leaves just the plastic frame that inserts into the top of the tank. Have the glass shop cut the last 3 inches off the back (see below) of the glass. And use...wait for it...this!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...s+screen.TRS0&_nkw=fibreglass+screen&_sacat=0

OR

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...Xnoseeum+mesh.TRS0&_nkw=noseeum+mesh&_sacat=0

Seems pretty cheap and available. You will get enough to do lots of vivariums, too, if you build more in the future. This stuff can be glued or siliconed over the gap where you just cut off the glass. Keep the glass piece(s) that were cut off and set it over the now-mesh-covered opening. Different amounts of coverage of the glass allow you to control how much humidity you retain.

If you wanted to try the drilling route, here is a link to the type of drill bit you are looking for:

5Pcs Diamond Tile Hole Saw Drill Bit kit Tool Glass Marble Granite Slate Cutting | eBay

A few holes a couple of inches in diameter would be adequate for ventilation.

Finally, I would choose the back for the vent, rather than the front. The front allows the air to bypass the rest of the tank and go straight up the front. This would deprive the back of the tank of circulation and keep roots wet, etc. that you probably don't want to have wet. If you use the top back of the tank for the vent, you force the air across diagonally from the front bottom to the top back. That will result in more even exchange of air and increase your control of the tanks.

Your main aim is not to reduce condensation (that is just a symptom of a broader problem). Your main aim is to get your humidity into that 60-80% range that is good for your frogs (assuming you are going to keep dart frogs!). You will get rid of the condensation if you get good ventilation, too, though. 

It's good that you are paying attention to the humidity. If your humidity is too high, the frogs will be unable to use evaporative cooling in case they get hot. That can be bad news. Sealed tanks are old school and not good for the animals. Good job recognizing this and trying to mitigate it.

Mark
P.S. I am assuming your viv is for dart frogs. If not, my apologies.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you take the old screen lid and turn it over you should see that the screening is held in place with a thin rubber "spring" (window screen spline). If you follow that around one of the two screen panels you should be able to find an end to it. Take a small screwdriver and lift up the end of the spine and then grab the end with a pair of needle nose pliers. You should be able to pull the spline from one of the panels freeing the screening on one half or both sides of the cage. Now you can get a piece of glass cut to fit whatever amount of that side you want to cover and glue it into place. Ideally you should use a adhesive that is recommended to bond glass to plastic *but as your dropping the glass into an area that if I remember correctly should support it, you can probably just silicone it into place. * The modifications I made to one of the exo-terras involved Solacryl for UVB penetration so I used Weld-On 16 for the bonding. With the screening for the vents, you should be able to find a supplier over there (as opposed to shipping from the US) if you look for them. I would suggest looking for a company that is an generic industrial supply company. Examples over here are places like Grainger Supply https://www.grainger.com/content/worldwidepage or McMaster Car. I'd be surprised if you can't find something similar over there. As for securing the screening, you don't have to use a nice and neat window screen kit but could simply silicone into place on the lid which would seal it into place (note if you used Solacryl, silicone doesn't generally create a long-term bond to it so in that case use Weld-On acrylic adhesives or a similar material). 

If you really want to cut the condensation then you should leave the vents below the door as that encourages air flow from below and up through the top of the cage. 

some comments 

Ed


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