# LED Light Fixture (Finnex, ecoxotic)



## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

I have discussed this before with Dendro Dave in messages. He has recommended Ecoxotic E series.

I am looking for LED light for my Exoterra setup that can penetrate over 24inches into my tank for plants.

I am wanting a light that has adjustable spectrum and can "ramp up" making the lighting more natural. 

I like the fact Ecoxotic has setting for thunderstorm and others, and suppose to deliver a lot of light.

However when I went to purchase it on Amazon, the reviews seemed to be pretty low and had me concern. Finnex brand, waiting to hear back if they can get what I want in stock.

Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a LED light fixture that has those kind of settings that is good quality?


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## SuperAWE (Aug 21, 2016)

Check this one out: EVO Quad 24" Timer 6500K LED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant Tetra Discus 28x 3W | eBay


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

For the cheapest option I would also recommend the evo quad. You will probably end up needing a few of the ecoxotic strips to get adequate light levels which can get expensive and IMO there are better options. What size tank do you have and whats your budget? Since you want more controllability and effects I would check out the Ecotech Radion XR15 Freshwater. Its very high quality and has lots of options for controllability and effects. Radion ™ XR15 Freshwater | EcoTech Marine
EcoTech Marine Radion XR15 Freshwater LED Light Fixture: Aquarium LED Light Fixtures


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

Have you used them before? I hate to buy something that doesnt work.


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

thanks for the reply, I have a exo terra 24 x 18 x 36. 

What I am looking for is a light that can stimulate different settings, rather then just turn on, it ramps up to simulate natural lighting. Also provide thunderstorm setting, although purely aesthetic I thought it be a nice feature to try out

I am looking at the link right now and checking them out. 

I called for a 36 inch Finnex 24/7 fixture and was quoted 109 dollars. I am hoping he is right as he came cheaper then Amazon and other sites. 

https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-Planted-Automated-Aquarium-Controller/dp/B00U0HMWSG?th=1

This is the link to the one I was originally looking at

https://www.amazon.com/Ecoxotic-E-9...srs=9487806011&ie=UTF8&qid=1473967550&sr=8-17

As you see reviews are so so on this brand.


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

jturner said:


> For the cheapest option I would also recommend the evo quad. You will probably end up needing a few of the ecoxotic strips to get adequate light levels which can get expensive and IMO there are better options. What size tank do you have and whats your budget? Since you want more controllability and effects I would check out the Ecotech Radion XR15 Freshwater. Its very high quality and has lots of options for controllability and effects. Radion ™ XR15 Freshwater | EcoTech Marine
> EcoTech Marine Radion XR15 Freshwater LED Light Fixture: Aquarium LED Light Fixtures




EcoTech Marine Radion XR15 Freshwater LED Light Fixture looks like it may be a light that needs supplemental lighting due to it only covering 30 inches, however looks nice and is what I need from what I can see.

My only concern is how I mount/hang and if I need more then one if I go with that one.

Thanks again everyone for input, still researching and checking things out. Last time I was at a reptile expo, they did not have a lot of choices for led lighting, seems like its a special niche still, unless you are dealing with coral reefs.


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

Ok so your tank is larger than I thought. My rule that has alway worked well for me with LED lighting for getting plants to thrive and color up is around 2-2.5 watts per gallon of tank size. You have what comes out to be around a 65-70 gallon tank so I would recommend having around 140watts of LED lighting in total. You can buy the highest quality LED lighting but if you don't have enough light your plants won't grow well. You will honestly probably need 4 of those finnex fixtures on a tank that size to produce good plant growth and coloration.


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

jturner said:


> Ok so your tank is larger than I thought. My rule that has alway worked well for me with LED lighting for getting plants to thrive and color up is around 2-2.5 watts per gallon of tank size. You have what comes out to be around a 65-70 gallon tank so I would recommend having around 140watts of LED lighting in total. You can buy the highest quality LED lighting but if you don't have enough light your plants won't grow well. You will honestly probably need 4 of those finnex fixtures on a tank that size to produce good plant growth and coloration.


Good observation, and I am glad I havent purchased anything yet, as I am keeping my options open and making sure I dont end up getting wrong thing.

https://www.amazon.com/Current-USA-Satellite-Plus-Light/dp/B00QVI5KDW#customerReviews

This light looks promising, what do you think?


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

It's a good light. Again though its only 45w so you will want 2 preferably 3 fixtures for good results.


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

jturner said:


> It's a good light. Again though its only 45w so you will want 2 preferably 3 fixtures for good results.


The link I last posted I couldnt even find the wattage on it. Or were you referring to the finnex light?


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I think you are going to be disappointed in the amount of light a single Finnex will put out (I was...). I have regular 2-row EVOs on my 24" tanks (18x18x24 and those are fine. A quad (4-rows and more LEDs per inch) will be far brighter. I just bought one for my next build - a 36" deep Exo Terra and it looks like it will be fine. I don't have the tank yet, so I can't tell you for sure  I bought the Snake Eye version so it has lenses on the LEDs to direct the light down into the tank better. The Radions would be fine, too, and they would have more bells and whistles, but they are pretty pricey. Likewise the Current USA, but I have read really good reviews on this board about them (and the Radions).

I hope you get just the right light for your tank!

Mark


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

Ya I was talking about the Current USA satellite- says wattage at the bottom here- Satellite Freshwater LED+ Pro | Current-USA
You could check out the maxspect razor 8000K. It's controllable. The 120w is $370 and the 160w is $460. 
Maxspect Razor R420R LED Aquarium Lighting System | PetSolutions


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

So this is what I picked up and depending on size and what not I may end up buying the finnex for the other settings. 

SE Quad 36" Timer 6500K LED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant 56X 3W 90 Cm | eBay

I did not buy a ramp timer, and not sure if the one they offer ramps up or just turns on and off.


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## Knap_123 (Sep 13, 2016)

Steve's led or rapid led. Do a DIY build how you want. Email or call Jeff at Steve's. He does dart frogs.


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## GamaSennin (Jul 15, 2008)

Has anyone used these before?
https://www.21ledusa.com/aquarium_led_reefbar_pro_36_full_spectrum_p/rbpfs36.htm

I was giving this some thought for a project I was working on and wondered how it would fare for plant growth.


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## Timbow (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm currently using the 24" EVO Dual 6500k with a TC420 timer. I also added a strip of 5050 RGB lights to the EVO to add sunrise/sunset. I'm really happy with this setup.

PM me if you go this route and need any help.


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## alogan (Jan 7, 2013)

Tincman Leds work great for a tank that size. I forget what wattage I have, but the 2 I have on my 36x18x36 work great and penetrate all 3 feet fairly well.


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## Dr.Hoatzin (Jul 28, 2014)

Keep in mind that you can't extrapolate the amount of light from wattage because different fixtures have varying intensites--100W from one brand will not be the same as 100W from another. You need to either have a PAR chart from the manufacturer (preferably with 2D dispersion on the map, not just directly below the light) or reliable anecdotal evidence from another user with a similarly deep setup and similar light demands among plants.

Among the non-chinese planted tank fixtures, the Fluval Plant 2.0 fixture has the best bang for the buck. Higher PAR than the Ecoxotic. You'll need their additional wifi accessory to control it as you mentioned.

That said, all the above options will produce disco and I wouldn't put them on my setups. Your mileage may vary, but that drives me crazy.


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## Bighorn (May 12, 2016)

For my 24" zoomed I picked up the finnex planted. My plants started reaching so I knew I needed more light. Picked up the 2 row evo and run them both. Finnex runs on auto for environment, sunrise, sunset, moon Evo comes on on timer later in morning and turns off in the evening. Simulates the natural cycle and gives bright light during the day. Sucks buying two lights but works the way I want now. Plants look happy now but time will tell.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

If you are interested in seeing how much bang you are getting for your buck, intensity-wise, then I recommend getting a footcandles light meter. This will show you if the lower level plants are getting anything. I shoot for 20-50 footcandles on my meter at the ground level, but it's analogue, so take that for what it's worth. 

But just as important as PAR (intensity) is the PUR (based on spectrum) of the light source. So if you have good PUR, you don't necessarily need a very intense (high PAR) source. 

I used the green element Evo quad 18" over a 24x18x18 exo terra for almost a year and it retarded the growth of some lower light plants and nearly burned others. Only a few plants really seemed to like it. During that time, I ran a trial on a couple other lights. The Finnex Planted plus with 660nm diodes won the contest. Plants responded very well at all levels. However, for a wider spread, two light strips may be needed unless the fixture is suspended higher above the tank (which reduces some of its intensity). Ironically, the lighting is still a little too intense for some of the plants I grow. Instead of suspending the light to decrease intensity, I shade it a little by laying a piece or light gauge fiberglass screen below the light on the tank top. It has been very successful for me - I switched to using this light over every vivarium this past year. This is just an endorsement.

If I needed to light a 3-foot-tall vivarium, I would get a BML Dutcc planted 2.0. I got one a while back and love it, especially with the plug-in dimmer to adjust to the desired intensity. This one also has some red spectrum diodes. 

Mike


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Looks like BML is no longer an option.

Home

Interesting that you had the experience you did with EVOs vs. Finnex. I had the exact opposite experience. The Finnex were absolutely anemic when it came to illuminating the bottom of the tank. I have had good luck with EVOs (though most of mine are not quads).

Mark


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## Dr.Hoatzin (Jul 28, 2014)

Hi Mike...I bet I've emailed/spoken with you before! 

A few quick points:

Footcandles (or lumens if you're using metric) is a measure of brightness as detected by human vision rather than total amount of light between 400-700nm. Because human vision does not see all colors equally but is heavily weighted to the center of the spectrum (555nm, right in the greens) a light that produces more green/yellow wavelengths may have higher footcandles or lumens relative to another light, even if it has less PAR than the other option.

Also, PUR is strictly conceptual but can't be used for making choices between lights (and any claims to the contrary come from companies that are more marketing than science). Ask yourself what units PUR is measured; the answer is "none, they don't exist". This is because PUR is an interesting theoretical discussion but not quantifiable. And while there's research in this area in economically viable areas (e.g. Cannabis, commercially valuable agricultural crops) there's none for most of the plants we hobbyists want to keep. So for now the best metrics are still PAR or solid anecdotal evidence from folks with the same depth tanks and same light-demanding plants. Footcandles (or even the light meter on your camera) are useful and better than nothing but have their drawbacks.

The Dutch II would definitely have less disco than the Dutch...although a little more than the BML Orchid Spectrum that I designed. I can occasionally see it cause disco on my setups but most other people can't spot it. You could always go with Fluence's PhysioSpec Indoor if the limited range of size options fit your setup--disco should be minimal and the color rendition is quite attractive. That would be my top pre-made option were I replacing lights tomorrow.


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## gope (Jun 26, 2014)

Could you please explain "disco"? Without reference to KC & the Sunshine Band?


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Dr.Hoatzin said:


> Hi Mike...I bet I've emailed/spoken with you before!
> 
> A few quick points:
> 
> ...


This is some great perspective. We have spoken, yes. I hope the plants arrive on time today! 

So, what I am hearing is that some wavelengths do not convey more usable radiation than others (PUR)? 

And that footcandle meters are designed and calibrated to primarily measure yellow/green light based on our lighting needs to be able to see? 

PUR rationalized: the spectral wavelengths that stimulate chlorophyll a and b. So, I think the wavelengths that are most usable to plants should be considered contemporaneously with the intensity of the light source. Sorry if I framed the original thought in an overly complicated manner.

And regardless of our discussions here about light physics and photosynthesis, Finnex planted plus does a great job over every tank I have. Just reiterating. =)

Mike


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Encyclia said:


> Looks like BML is no longer an option.
> 
> Home
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear about BML! I wonder how much my light will be worth in a year or two... it's barely been used. lol

Weird, I don't have a problem with any growth towards the tank bottom. Footcandles meter reads 20 to 40 at that level in my vivs. I have only seen improved growth and more blooming since making the switch. Perhaps we should exchange more info through messaging to compare setups and plant selections in detail to help identify what my be giving us such opposing results.

Mike


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

alogan said:


> Tincman Leds work great for a tank that size. I forget what wattage I have, but the 2 I have on my 36x18x36 work great and penetrate all 3 feet fairly well.


This. I have a 24x18x36 Medium X-tall Exo terra, and I use just one of Tincman's 22" LED bars over it.


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## Dr.Hoatzin (Jul 28, 2014)

gope said:


> Could you please explain "disco"?


Good question: "disco" is the slang term for separation of colors in your viv. Basically, multiple colors of light don't mix in air the way they do in water--not an issue with fluorescents or MH's, but LED fixtures often run an array of colours and wavelengths in the unit. Although the multiple colors look blended in air, due to simultaneous reflection off of leaves and partial transmittance through leaves you can start to see spots of individual colors showing up in the tank. Some people get REALLY irked by this. The best way to limit disco while still running multiple colors is to stick to only two colors, such as 6500K's and 660nm red's or a similar combination.

Even with just two colors, such as in my Orchid Spectrum, you might still notice the occasional disco. I have a spot of red on a few Marcgravia leaves that bothers me, but most other folks don't seem to notice.


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## Dr.Hoatzin (Jul 28, 2014)

> So, what I am hearing is that some wavelengths do not convey more usable radiation than others (PUR)?


Yes, if you're talking about the entire range of wavelengths rather than visible light. But if you're talking about the visible light spectrum then there's no hard data that some wavelengths are more useful overall than others (and plenty of data showing good growth from controlled application of single wavelengths throughout the visible light range). Yes, particular wavelengths are needed for certain photomorphogenetic responses, but for overall/generalized healthy growth you need the full spectrum. Anything more should be for aesthetic reasons because there's no good scientific support.

How do you know your fixture is "full spectrum"? A: It has white/daylight diodes.



> And that footcandle meters are designed and calibrated to primarily measure yellow/green light based on our lighting needs to be able to see?


Yes, footcandles/lumens/lux are geared towards human vision which is most acute in the greens and yellows. So while it measures the entire visible light range, it's far more heavily weighted towards the center of the spectrum. It's not linear.



> PUR rationalized: the spectral wavelengths that stimulate chlorophyll a and b. So, I think the wavelengths that are most usable to plants should be considered contemporaneously with the intensity of the light source.


If you have light that appears to be white/daylight, you have light that is captured by chlorophyll a and b. And also plenty of light to produce those lovely secondary pigments that make Neoregalia's and other vividly-colored plants so appealing to us.

Because of all those secondary pigments utilizing wavelengths outside of the range of your primary pigments, there isn't a defined "most usable" to the plants (and if there were it would vary based on species, stage of growth, and a host of other factors). Plants are photo-adaptive and will to some extent adjust pigment ratios based on what light is provided...you could probably grow everything in your viv under just 450nm blue wavelengths, provided PAR was the same as what you're currently providing. But it sure would be a lot less pleasant to look at!


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

It's funny, but although I know we are talking about the same thing, it almost feels as though we are having two conversations. 

Granted white light contains more or less full spectrum. We've been growing plants with it for a long time.

If we chose fixtures that incorporate diodes that emit a particular spectrum (blue or far red), we can increase the effectiveness of the light source by design. And this could also reduce our need for greater intensity. This is a good thing for lower light tropicals. 

My statement was meant as general advice, based on the chart below and experiences I've had with such LED products. But I'm not really concerned with the way the lighting looks unless there is far too much red, blue, or shadowing going on.











Mike


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

Please before anyone makes any more claims of what spectrum is best for plant growth watch this video. I know it's for planted tanks but it gives a great overall explanation of lighting for our purposes. 





I think that the biggest thing to take away from this is that plants actually use all parts of the visual spectrum for photosynthesis. They just use some wavelengths like in the red and blue parts of the spectrum slightly more efficiently. The other thing to take away from this is the fact that in general quantity of light is what's going to grow your plants not quality. This is why although PAR would be the ideal measurement to tell how good our lights will be at growing plants most people don't have a par meter on hand and most light fixtures don't come with PAR ratings. So although wattage or lumens is not ideal it's actually not a bad way of getting a general estimate for how bright a fixture will be. That's why my rule of thumb for LED lighting is around 2-3watts per gallon or around 100 lumens per gallon for good growth and coloration.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

jturner said:


> Please before anyone makes any more claims of what spectrum is best.....


But wait! Just let me explain! lol


Seriously though, quantity may be necessary, but quality to me is like giving plants additional nourishment. Seems like a no brainer.

And lacking a device for checking PAR or footcandles, comparing products side by side and watching how the plants respond will give you all the information needed.

Good discussion.


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## WZDesigns (Feb 20, 2014)

Some things to keep in mind (some of which has been said before) when it comes to lighting and how it pertains to vivarium’s are the various units of measurement. It seems like many fields of study have each “invented” or at least utilize different units/ measurements/ qualities when it comes to describing light, so I understand all the confusion and forgive me if there are any inaccuracies in my post. Hopefully my post doesn’t add to the confusion, Google is your friend here, if there are things that are not explained well please feel free to dig deeper. Light science is a fascinating even if utterly convoluted topic. 

Things like LUX, Lumens, and Footcandles mostly pertain to Human vision and the *perceived intensity* of light and are less than accurate for measuring how well your plants will do, or how good your frogs will look. 

Watts (especially Watts per Gallon) are an incredibly inaccurate way to determine if a light is suitable or not. Firstly Watts are a measure of *electricity* and irrelevant to light output. Also most fixtures that list wattage are inconsistent in what they represent. Is the wattage the amount of power the transformer draws from the outlet, is it the power rating of the LED chips, or is it some equivalency to a Filament or CFL bulb? (I.e. 60w equivalent LED is referenced to the light output of a 60w Incandescent)

Then there are things like PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) and PPFD which pertain to Photosynthesis and are used more in agricultural research. PPFD (Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density) is a measure of the amount of usable wavelengths of light that actually reach your plants, and is the most accurate in determining how well your plants will grow. Lights with a High PAR are great for growing plants but they often have skewed spectra and appear purple-ish. 

-Some wavelengths *absolutely *convey more usable radiation than others “red light (600-700 nm) is almost twice as effective as blue light (400-500 nm) at driving photosynthesis, with green (500-600 nm) light in between the two.”
These are two excellent articles if you want to learn more.
https://fluence.science/science/photosynthesis-guide/
https://fluence.science/science/par-ppf-ppfd-dli/ 

Other elements to consider are CCT (Correlated Color Temperature) and CRI (Color Rendering Index). These are used predominantly in discussions regarding photography and are probably the most noticeable and important in making your vivarium “look good”. Ideally you want a light that is between 5500K and 7000K with a high CRI, this would mimic natural daylight and would keep your frogs and plants from looking overly yellow or blue or purple. (Unless that’s what you wanted)

In regards to the “disco effect” many LED light fixtures utilize a mix of various colors of LEDs to achieve a “Full Spectrum” appearance. The issue is that since there are different colors of light coming from different parts of the fixture there is the possibility for any object in the vivarium to cast multiple shadows of different colors.
Quoted from another great article; Aquarium Lighting: Building a LED Fixture: How We Did It â€” Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
“The so-called disco effect is witnessed when a tank is lighted by several power LEDs (especially multi-colored) which are positioned on a certain distance between each other. Each LED is a point light source, resembling a small sun. When illuminated by several LEDs from different directions, every object produces multiple shadows. When these LEDs are of different color, these shades look colored like disco lights.”


EDIT: I really need to get faster at getting my posts up, after posting I realized that about 5 posts went up between the time I started writing down some thoughts and the time I hit submit. Apologies for any redundant info


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## WZDesigns (Feb 20, 2014)

jturner said:


> Please before anyone makes any more claims of what spectrum is best for plant growth watch this video. I know it's for planted tanks but it gives a great overall explanation of lighting for our purposes.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKHwDfv6ETg



Very informative video thanks for posting it. Dennis Wong just got a new subscriber, although it did contain a few inaccuracies (certain plants are able to sense and respond to wavelengths outside the 400-700nm visible spectrum)

LED lighting technology (and its implications in both general lighting and agricultural uses) is advancing rapidly enough that there is bound to be loads of outdated information from many sources (potentially even the sources I used) so I would welcome feedback and references (links!) to any and all RECENT and reputable research out there.

While I have been researching many aspects of lighting over the last few months I’m still wrapping my head around much of it, and this was the first time I tried to synthesize and condense it all into a brief but useful post. Not to hijack this thread from the OP (who seemed to just want a product recommendation) but I would be really interested to hear more on peoples perspectives/ research into vivarium lighting as it pertains to PAR, various light spectrum ratios, Etc. I am intending to build a DIY LED fixture eventually and all info is appreciated. 

Continuation of this topic (at least the more in-depth discussion regarding spectra and available research) may be better moved to the Science sub forum?


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## Dr.Hoatzin (Jul 28, 2014)

Great video you've posted--Dennis is a friend of mine and we've had many long conversations on photobiology. Keep in mind that underwater, all wavelengths over 700nm are filtered out so aquatic plants won't be using those at all...and there's no good data on wavelengths smaller than 400nm affecting growth (though some possible interesting other effects). So for his application the info is correct.



> I think that the biggest thing to take away from this is that plants actually use all parts of the visual spectrum for photosynthesis. They just use some wavelengths like in the red and blue parts of the spectrum slightly more efficiently.


Yes--kind of. The primary pigments definitely use parts of the reds and blues more efficiently...but again, there's far more going on for energy capture and photomorphogenesis than solely the primary pigments. So you want all parts of the visible light spectrum. Got white light that looks nice to your eyes? Then you've got the right spectrum! Which means you can move on to the next integral question...do you have _enough_ light?



> Then there are things like PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) and PPFD which pertain to Photosynthesis and are used more in agricultural research. PPFD (Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density) is a measure of the amount of usable wavelengths of light that actually reach your plants, and is the most accurate in determining how well your plants will grow. Lights with a High PAR are great for growing plants but they often have skewed spectra and appear purple-ish.


In the hobbyist worlds, PAR and PPFD are used interchangeably, so when I referenced PAR above what I really meant is PPFD. The latter term is a measured quantity (# of photons per sq. m per s) while the former is not. Slowly but steadily the correct terminology will prevail, but for right now I'm just happy people are talking about PAR. The best way to know how much light you have will be from a good 2D model/map of the fixture's PAR from the manufacturer, since high-accuracy quantum meters aren't within most hobbyists budgets.

However, one thing to note: PPFD (or PAR if you will) measures all photons of all wavelengths across the visible light spectrum...so a high-PAR light need not be purple-ish. In fact, in most cases the sellers of "blurple"-colored fixtures are claiming theirs are high-PUR because of all the blues and reds...which of course is nonsense. You can have high PAR and need not induce headaches at the same time.

Those are good links to the science behind lighting, WZDesigns. I worked there for years as their sole rep for the aquarium/viv/pal markets and designed many of their spectrums and always appreciated their adherence to peer-reviewed data rather than marketing shills.

Fun discussion!

Cheers,

Cara


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Hey Cara,

So if the plants only need white light, which of course has worked fine growing them for years, why would BML and other manufacturers chose to offer lights that have 660nm red diodes and blue diodes? It seems like I am hearing that we shouldn't worry about them, though there is enough data to support their benefit. This is what has me confused. 

Based on the usefulness of the red and blue portions of the spectrum, it should be logical that fixtures which include them in appropriate amounts that dont out balance the white diodes would aid in the growth of plant with artificial lighting. Is it the aesthetic qualities of these colors that is the turn-off rather than their effectiveness? I have had success with the red diodes and scratch my head over the thought of not using them.

Mike


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## Dr.Hoatzin (Jul 28, 2014)

> So if the plants only need white light, which of course has worked fine growing them for years, why would BML and other manufacturers chose to offer lights that have 660nm red diodes and blue diodes? It seems like I am hearing that we shouldn't worry about them, though there is enough data to support their benefit. This is what has me confused.


Excellent question, and there's several different reasons.

1) For aesthetic reasons--adding a little more blue or red or green to the spectrum means more of those colors available to reflect off your 'scape, making it appear more saturated to the viewer.

2) Remember how I mentioned above that if you could control the amount of light (same PPFD) then you should get similar growth regardless of color, so an all-blue tank should grow as quickly as an all-6500K daylight? The problem here is that even within the same brand and binning, different colors/wavelengths of LEDs do not produce the same amount of photons--some are markedly less efficient than others. Green LEDs, in particular, are not nearly as efficient at turning input current into output photons (known in the industry as "the green gap"), while reds and blues are highly efficient at converting electricity to photons. So if you need high PAR levels, one way to game the system is to add blues and reds, thus bumping up total photons produced.

3) Since all "white" LEDs are really blue LEDs, adding a bit more red to a spectrum of "white" LEDs will balance out the spectral curve as well as add a pleasing warmth to the color rendition, and it does so far more efficiently than using solely warm whites.

At BML, the aquarium/viv/pal spectrums added blues, reds, and greens almost entirely for reason #1 and occasionally #3. Our all-6500K had really high PPFD, but to my eyes it appeared "flat" and I prefer more saturation to the colors. Don't underestimate the importance of making your light aesthetically pleasing--once you spend a lot of money on your setup (or a lot of time staring at different spectrums) you get pretty picky, and that's not a bad thing!

Cheers,

Cara


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

I do like the look of the white and red LED combination, in addition to how the plants respond to it.

One observation on the video posted above (I didn't watch it initially) is that green light was given favor, even though he mentioned how a significant amount is reflected. As I think has been mentioned, the information theme is based on fluorescent technology, which dates it, since we are talking about oranges now rather than apples. And a primary reference was from 1972, if I'm recalling it correctly. It was very informative though.

Where was all this information for the past few years? How has there come to be available so much conflicting information?


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## WZDesigns (Feb 20, 2014)

roxrgneiss said:


> Where was all this information for the past few years? How has there come to be available so much conflicting information?


I think that one big reason a lot of this info has yet to find its way into the hobby is that there is not as big of a market for it. The vivarium and planted aquarium hobby is a fairly niche (and arguably Luxury) market so there may be less demand for innovation in lighting science than there is in sleek looking fixture design. Also most of the studies I’ve found relate to commercial flower greenhouses and agricultural crop research so the data may not relate as well to tropical plants suitable for the vivarium.

While plants may not be using wavelengths outside of the “visible” range for photosynthesis and growth there are some interesting studies that look at the various growth effects of specific wavelengths. It is these photomorphogenic controls that have me most interested in learning as much as I can about lighting and which specific aspects of the spectrum I can adjust to tailor plant growth within the vivarium. (For example adjusting time, duration and exposure to far-red light to encourage compact growth.)

Cara- you mentioned working with some lighting companies (BML if I’m not mistaken) and designing spectrums for aquariums/viv’s, so perhaps you have access to much better data than I have been able to find online. Are there any studies available that can confirm/ deny the apparent myth that aquarium algae is affected by light in the yellow range?


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## viper69 (Dec 28, 2013)

JPP said:


> This. I have a 24x18x36 Medium X-tall Exo terra, and I use just one of Tincman's 22" LED bars over it.


Do you observe a disco effect w/the Tincman light you have?


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the input. I went ahead and purchased a light off ebay, still some room to add supplemental lighting. Looks very bright , just need to see how plants respond.

Here is a link that has a video that shows my light.









SE Quad 36" Timer 6500K LED Aquarium Light Freshwater Plant 56x 3W 90 cm


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## Fishtank100 (Oct 16, 2016)

I have the current plus and the pro the pro model is the brightest and haveang different light levels.


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## I'mNew2Frogs! (Jan 23, 2019)

Has anyone looked into these for PDF vivariums?

Would it be "too much" light?

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/fluval-plant-3-0-led-light?variant=7437902381086


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

It would not be too much light. The majority of movement in the dart frog community in lighting has been to do the same thing the planted tank world does slightly behind them. This fluval looks like it was designed for aquatic plants. All planted tank lights I have seen always work well with dart frogs setups as long as the dimensions of the tank are appropriate for the specific light.


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