# Stolen World. Smuggling book



## Philsuma

oh my. Even though this book, like it's previous "cousin" The Lizard King, deals mainly in Reptiles.......you can be it'll be an interesting read and will share more than a couple similarities wth our hobby.....whoa.


*Stolen World*: A Tale of Reptiles, Smugglers and Skulduggery” by _Jennuie Erin Smith_, *And the Following Review From Publisher’s Weekly Tells Us Why:*

“In this very disturbing and very entertaining chronicle of reptile smugglers, the collectors and zoo keepers who trade with them, and the federal agents who try to catch them, the humans are as devious, dangerous, and creepily charming as the cold-blooded creatures they lust after. Science reporter Smith bases her book on extensive original interviews with two smugglers: Henry Molt Jr. is a reptile dealer who, in the 1960s, unable to get a job with a zoo, began a lifelong career of reptile collecting involving restless international travel, partner-stiffing, and jail time, with an undaunted enthusiasm that's survived into his 60s: "The reptile business ‘is a disease,' he said, and you can't retire from a disease." Equally outrageous is the volatile, knife-wielding Tommy Crutchfield, who expanded his childhood alligator-and-snake business into a million-dollar empire of reptile hunting and dealing. Even the curators of the Bronx and San Diego zoos let their obsession with the animals lure them into deals in order to obtain illegally imported rare breeds. Smith's affection for these unsavory people gives the book an intriguing moral ambiguity (which might make some environmentalists cringe), but the subculture's brazen shenanigans make for a convoluted, fascinating tale”.

Hitting the bookstand in Jan....I believe


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## McBobs

Philsuma said:


> oh my. Even though this book, like it's previous "cousin" The Lizard King, deals mainly in Reptiles.......you can be it'll be an interesting read and will share more than a couple similarities wth our hobby.....whoa.
> 
> 
> *Stolen World*: A Tale of Reptiles, Smugglers and Skulduggery” by _Jennuie Erin Smith_, *And the Following Review From Publisher’s Weekly Tells Us Why:*
> 
> “In this very disturbing and very entertaining chronicle of reptile smugglers, the collectors and zoo keepers who trade with them, and the federal agents who try to catch them, the humans are as devious, dangerous, and creepily charming as the cold-blooded creatures they lust after. Science reporter Smith bases her book on extensive original interviews with two smugglers: Henry Molt Jr. is a reptile dealer who, in the 1960s, unable to get a job with a zoo, began a lifelong career of reptile collecting involving restless international travel, partner-stiffing, and jail time, with an undaunted enthusiasm that's survived into his 60s: "The reptile business ‘is a disease,' he said, and you can't retire from a disease." Equally outrageous is the volatile, knife-wielding Tommy Crutchfield, who expanded his childhood alligator-and-snake business into a million-dollar empire of reptile hunting and dealing. Even the curators of the Bronx and San Diego zoos let their obsession with the animals lure them into deals in order to obtain illegally imported rare breeds. Smith's affection for these unsavory people gives the book an intriguing moral ambiguity (which might make some environmentalists cringe), but the subculture's brazen shenanigans make for a convoluted, fascinating tale”.
> 
> Hitting the bookstand in Jan....I believe


Looks like a great read. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for it!

-Matt


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## mantisdragon91

Curious to see how these guys are portrayed, in my experience Molt is a thieving D-bag while Crutchfield was always a gentleman who held up his end of the bargain. His biggest crime was smuggling Fiji Iguanas, bad on the surface but understanable once you realize that these lizards breed and do well in captivity and they have been legal in Europe for decades. I belive in this country they do rather well in Zoos such as San Diego but the young are euthanized and some of the breeders are sterilized to avoid the legal ramifications of releasing offspring to private hobbyists.


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## Philsuma

I would NOT doubt that Tom C. would like to bite a little of the mojo that Mike and Ray Van Nos...got from "their" book.

ah...that's why I love SoFl....it's so damn...._interesting_


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## mantisdragon91

Not sure he needs to. Tom is actually a very good breeder and introduced quite a number of species to the hobby. Albino Iguanas beeing his latest pet project. Ray is strictly(pun intended) an importer who provides the majority of the stock you see at shows on the east coast and kingsnake.

South Florida is indeed interesting everyone is so flipped out about burmese pythons. Yet no one seems at all concerned about all the tigers, leopards and salt water crocs that escaped in the aftermath of hurricane Andrew

Nice place to visit can't say I want to live there.


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## Roadrunner

So you've recieved animals from Tom C and you think he's a good guy? I wouldn't be able to tell the story of my one time purchase as it would constitute negative vendor feedback. I`ll just say I don`t think he knows the difference in hardiness between an alligator and a rainforest amphibian.



mantisdragon91 said:


> Curious to see how these guys are portrayed, in my experience Molt is a thieving D-bag while Crutchfield was always a gentleman who held up his end of the bargain. His biggest crime was smuggling Fiji Iguanas, bad on the surface but understanable once you realize that these lizards breed and do well in captivity and they have been legal in Europe for decades. I belive in this country they do rather well in Zoos such as San Diego but the young are euthanized and some of the breeders are sterilized to avoid the legal ramifications of releasing offspring to private hobbyists.


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## mantisdragon91

frogfarm said:


> So you've recieved animals from Tom C and you think he's a good guy? I wouldn't be able to tell the story of my one time purchase as it would constitute negative vendor feedback. I`ll just say I don`t think he knows the difference in hardiness between an alligator and a rainforest amphibian.


Yes I would say that. I've gotten a great batch of Surinam tree frogs from him in the past as well as other animals. To the best of my knowledge Tom doesn't deal in darts. But he is very knowledgable when it comes to large lizards, and boids. If you have had bad experiences please share I have always found him to be very straightforward in his business dealings.


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## JJuchems

I got my copy today! I pre-ordered threw amazon and ended up with it a day early.


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## Michael Shrom

I'm waiting for the book about smugglers and thieves on dendroboad and salamandridae.com to come out. Now that would be a good read.


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## JJuchems

Michael Shrom said:


> I'm waiting for the book about smugglers and thieves on dendroboad and salamandridae.com to come out. Now that would be a good read.


That would be a great read. I think I have read a few threads of that nature. The only thing is their is no evidence or bibliography to support it. Just a lot of hear say and defamation. I can only recall one recent thread with any backing.


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## Dendrobatid

mantisdragon91 said:


> Not sure he needs to. Tom is actually a very good breeder and introduced quite a number of species to the hobby. Albino Iguanas beeing his latest pet project. Ray is strictly(pun intended) an importer who provides the majority of the stock you see at shows on the east coast and kingsnake.
> 
> South Florida is indeed interesting everyone is so flipped out about burmese pythons. Yet no one seems at all concerned about all the tigers, leopards and Brachylophus fasciatus that escaped in the aftermath of hurricane Andrew
> 
> Nice place to visit can't say I want to live there.


I usually don't get involved in a lot of the cowardly bashing that I see on here. But I need to ask you a few questions. Do you really consider an albino Iguana iguana a new species? And just because someone is knowledgeable about a certain taxon, does not necessarily make them reputable. And you know for a fact that SDZ euthanizes juvenile Brachylophus fasciatus? And sterilizes adults? I would really like to know where you obtained your information? So if an animal does well in captivity and can make pet stores a profit we should support ripping them out of the wild and setting up farms for them here so we can supply the public demand with this great pet that does well in captivity. Just because a certain species of animal does well in captivity, doesn't mean it's the best place for it. I would also check my facts about Salt water crocs, among others running all over Florida. If you are a child I apologize, but you should really get your facts straight before you start making remarks about people and institutions.


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## mantisdragon91

Dendrobatid said:


> I usually don't get involved in a lot of the cowardly bashing that I see on here. But I need to ask you a few questions. Do you really consider an albino Iguana iguana a new species? And just because someone is knowledgeable about a certain taxon, does not necessarily make them reputable. And you know for a fact that SDZ euthanizes juvenile Brachylophus fasciatus? And sterilizes adults? I would really like to know where you obtained your information? So if an animal does well in captivity and can make pet stores a profit we should support ripping them out of the wild and setting up farms for them here so we can supply the public demand with this great pet that does well in captivity. Just because a certain species of animal does well in captivity, doesn't mean it's the best place for it. I would also check my facts about Salt water crocs, among others running all over Florida. If you are a child I apologize, but you should really get your facts straight before you start making remarks about people and institutions.


No I don't consider Albino Iguanas a new species just a morph but one that is spectacular in its own right. Regarding the SDZ this information was personally relayed to me by one of their Keepers. The Salt water crocs originated from 12 breeder pairs which escaped when their inground ponds were flooded at a breeder facility in South Florida during Hurrican Andrew. I don't know for a fact that they are breeding in the Everglades but seeing as they can live upwards of 100 years and there is nothing in the Everglades that can prey on an adult Saltie, barring them dying during some of the recent cold spells, they are still there.

And where do you see me recommending ripping animals out of the wild for the pet hobby? Perhaps you have confused this with me saying I strongly support taking animals out of areas threatened with slash and burn agriculture?

For some one who is claiming to see a lot of cowardly bashing on this site you certainly seem to be doing more than your share in this one post alone


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## Dendrobatid

mantisdragon91 said:


> No I don't consider Albino Iguanas a new species just a morph but one that is spectacular in its own right. Regarding the SDZ this information was personally relayed to me by one of their Keepers. The Salt water crocs originated from 12 breeder pairs which escaped when their inground ponds were flooded at a breeder facility in South Florida during Hurrican Andrew. I don't know for a fact that they are breeding in the Everglades but seeing as they can live upwards of 100 years and there is nothing in the Everglades that can prey on an adult Saltie, barring them dying during some of the recent cold spells, they are still there.
> 
> And where do you see me recommending ripping animals out of the wild for the pet hobby? Perhaps you have confused this with me saying I strongly support taking animals out of areas threatened with slash and burn agriculture?
> 
> For some one who is claiming to see a lot of cowardly bashing on this site you certainly seem to be doing more than your share in this one post alone


I apologize if you feel that I bashed you. We can have different opinions. I do not see any beauty in a mutation that can not live in the wild. From a conservation standpoint (Which you somewhat claim to be, you were talking about rescuing animals from s/b areas) it is absolutely a waste of time to try to concentrate all of your time and resources on a animal that could never ever be re-introduced back into the wild. The only reason those money hungry lizard and snake people do it, is for the sole purpose of bulking up their wallets. I have been in this profession for over 35 years, don't kid yourself into thinking that those individuals care about conservation! At least most of the individuals on this site are concerned about conservation and site specific reproduction. You may want to go to the AZA website and become familiar with programs such as SSP's, TAG's and LAG's. I'm not being cowardly by hiding behind a website. Feel free to call me anytime.
Jim Giacobbe
559-577-3364


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## mantisdragon91

My apologies Jim,

I actually confused you for a couple of trolls that have been on here lately stiring up issues. My take is a little diffrent than yours simply because I come from a private as opposed to a zoological background. While I understand the economics of the reptile business and how it is strictly driven by the mighty green, I believe that things such as Albino Iguanas do have a value simply because they are such beatiful, awe inspiring animals when full grown. If they help get even one more kid interested in the natural world and create a convert for conservation in general than they have served a purpose. As Gerald Durrell said on numerous occassions *" The only way to get people interested in protecting the wild places, is to make them fall in love with the multitude of strange beings that inhabit them" *And I share that sentiment whole heartedly. 

Regards,
Roman


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## Sake135

I read this book and there are a lot of inaccuracies. I've spoken to some people with firsthand knowledge about events in the book. A lot of the things written were totally made up. I also know two of the people mentioned in the book and I read a lot of misinformation about them or events they were involved in. 

If you're interested in reading it, pick it up at the library. Treat it as fiction.


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## Scott

OK folks - I have a couple of requests for some editing.

I removed a WHOLE BUNCH of posts. I left a few.

The main reason I removed them is because they are really off topic to the OP.

IF any of the parties (4 by my count) want this topic split out in to its own thread - please say so. I will be happy to do that.

I am unlocking the the thread now.

s


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