# Frog disappeared



## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

i have 2 very happy Vanzolinii darts: well kept and have a good home. They've never tried to escape. Last week was the last time I saw the "bolder" one. He used to love the bromeliad but hasn't been in it since his fav leaf died. He was def skinnier than the other, but there were always FF's in the tank. The tank is a Habisphere and I'm always very cautious abt them escaping. I've had them for abt 3 weeks now. The tank is heavily planted but there's no sign of him. Thanks


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

Sorry for not really asking a question, does anyone have an idea of where it may be? Thanks


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## roundfrog (Jan 27, 2016)

It's highly unlikely he's missing. He is most likely hiding in a very good spot. Wish you luck and hope you find him. BtW, many members don't see some of their darts for weeks or months. I would guess he's in the leaf litter, or jammed in between the leaves of a brom


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## mark c (Jun 17, 2010)

Whats a habisphere?


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## roundfrog (Jan 27, 2016)

mark c said:


> Whats a habisphere?


Exo Terra : Habisphere / LifeStyle Desktop Terrarium


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

roundfrog said:


> It's highly unlikely he's missing. He is most likely hiding in a very good spot. Wish you luck and hope you find him. BtW, many members don't see some of their darts for weeks or months. I would guess he's in the leaf litter, or jammed in between the leaves of a brom


Thanks. Just wondering, what would make him want to hide all of a sudden after being the "bold one" of the 2? Also, I just saw 1 in leaf litter under cork and he hid well right away-but the one I've seen wasn't in his normal spot.


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## mark c (Jun 17, 2010)

Post some pictures both of frogs and setup.


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## roundfrog (Jan 27, 2016)

Clucas_27 said:


> Thanks. Just wondering, what would make him want to hide all of a sudden after being the "bold one" of the 2? Also, I just saw 1 in leaf litter under cork and he hid well right away-but the one I've seen wasn't in his normal spot.


Maybe he was going through an emotional breakdown after the loss of his fav leaf? I really don't know. maybe he found a better spot to spend his time, or just feels like hiding.


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## scotty1212 (Feb 15, 2016)

Hes most likely in the leaf litter. I have one that likes to hide on the backside of a bromeliad and if hes there i cant see him. Good luck!


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## wlrodman (Nov 3, 2015)

I like to keep a "group" of frogs together to avoid the "missing frog" scenario,i.e., I like to see my frogs.... Its a matter of statistics.... The more frogs in the viviarium, the more likely you'll see at least one of them. Also, some individual frogs will tend to be more bold than others. So, the more you have, the more likely one will be bold. 

There are some frogs that can't be kept in groups. But, a lot of them can. I've got 6 vanzolini's together, for example.


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

Your dude may have just picked out a new favorite spot that is not visible from the front of the viv. Keep an eye out on the back wall and roof of the viv. or leaves very close to the top. They can and will chase FFS while climbing upside down on the viv. lid. If you reduce the feeding frequency a bit you may see them come out to eat more often. 

You never mentioned hold old your frogs are or if they are old enough to be sexually active. Behavioral changes are not that unusual. They may be bold for while then get more reclusive as mine did when they started laying eggs. Be patient and GL with them.


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

UPDATE:
I haven't seen either frog for awhile. (The one I've mentioned above never showed himself, and I hadn't seen the 2cd one for abt 1 1/2 months) So, u decided to do a little digging. Once I had taken everything except for plants out and turned up the leaf litter, no frogs, or remninse of frogs, remained. They must have escaped somehow while I was very careful when feeding and spraying bc Ik how quick they cld be. 

I was now wondering if I cld put an Azureus in the tank in a few weeks? The soil is booming with springtails, and the moss on my cork bark is doing great so I'd hate to let it go to waste. 

Also, are there any darts or other frogs that are as active as Leucs or Azureuses?


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## Andrew Lee (Jan 21, 2014)

This is quite common, believe it or not. A lot of times, people don't see them for a long time. Even for years! Also, they usually tear apart their tank to find them in small hidden areas they never knew had existed! Just wanted to say. If you are okay with it, you can rebuild your tank and in the process actually see if they really escaped. If not, well, I'm not sure. Good luck!


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

Idk man, I mean I took EVERYTHING out so it was just 3 plants and leaf litter. Do u think I cld go ahead w/ another frog in a month? Ik it's sad but the tank itself is doing great


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## roundfrog (Jan 27, 2016)

Clucas_27 said:


> Idk man, I mean I took EVERYTHING out so it was just 3 plants and leaf litter. Do u think I cld go ahead w/ another frog in a month? Ik it's sad but the tank itself is doing great


The leaf litter is still in there? Search it and take it out 1 by 1 and you might find them. Tearing down the rest of the tank might have made them hide deep in the leaf litter. Sorry about your loss if you don't find them, but keep your hopes up.


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

I guess I can do it again. I did shuffle thru the leaf litter and found nothing. Is there any point in checking the leaf litter again? I rly doubt they've been in the leaves for months and months.


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## KP3 (Nov 15, 2015)

If you have been misting regularly and have a sufficient amount of microfauna in the tank, anything is possible.


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

My level of leaf litter is abt 0.5" tall and I went thru that and the sphagnum moss layers yesterday. Do they burrow? The only places I haven't checked r in the substrate and plant roots which I don't rly want to mess with.


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## Fingolfin (Jan 31, 2016)

Any pics of the viv after you have done this? People may be able to give you an idea of where to look. Also if you don't find the frogs, I would recommend either A. Getting a new tank all together or B. Tearing down everything (plants, substrate, and backround) and sanitizing it if you are looking to get another dart

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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Clucas_27 said:


> My level of leaf litter is abt 0.5" tall and I went thru that and the sphagnum moss layers yesterday. Do they burrow? The only places I haven't checked r in the substrate and plant roots which I don't rly want to mess with.


I know it isn't what you want to hear, but you might as well take everything out as they can hide in the substrate and if you find them, great, just put it back together. It is also unlikely that the both jumped out at separate times. More likely they both died, their little bodies don't take much time to decompose without a trace in vivariums. In which case you should toss everything, sanitize tank itself, and start over before trying another frog.


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

Do you really think I'd have to take everything put and sanitize it? The microfauna is doing great and I dont want to have to start that over.


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## Andrew Lee (Jan 21, 2014)

Clucas_27 said:


> Do you really think I'd have to take everything put and sanitize it? The microfauna is doing great and I dont want to have to start that over.


I know it seems like a lot of work but it is necessary for the benefit of your future frog and even you! You know, half the fun of this hobby is being creative and making the viv. Try some different layout, you won't regret it!


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## Fingolfin (Jan 31, 2016)

If your frogs died because of a pathogen, virus, bacteria then by just putting another frog in the enclosure, you just put another frog on death row! Listen too Andrew Lee, completely rip up and sanitize the tank. I know, it's hard. You probably put good time and money into it, but it is best for the frogs.

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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

Fingolfin said:


> If your frogs died because of a pathogen, virus, bacteria then by just putting another frog in the enclosure, you just put another frog on death row! Listen too Andrew Lee, completely rip up and sanitize the tank. I know, it's hard. You probably put good time and money into it, but it is best for the frogs.


How would I know if they died b/c of those reasons? The tank looks healthy: very lush, lots of microfauna, humidity is good, and temp is good.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Clucas_27 said:


> How would I know if they died b/c of those reasons? The tank looks healthy: very lush, lots of microfauna, humidity is good, and temp is good.


If you had a deceased frogs body then a necropsy might be performed on it. Without it however, your ONLY option is to tear down the tank, sanitize it thoroughly and then rebuild it. Anything less than that is poor animal husbandry at best, and at worst is just lazy negligence.


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## rmp (Oct 28, 2015)

Frogs will sometimes burry themselves in the substrate, or go into little caves you didn't know existed. It is a small terrarium, so it should be easy to find them if they are alive (or dead recently, their skeletons may last a couple of weeks before they disappear). If they had escaped, then you would find their dried out carcasses in some corner or behind furniture, as they don't last more than a couple of hours (or even less if you have AC) out of their tank.


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## Clucas_27 (Jan 2, 2016)

Ok when I get back from St. Louis I will rip apart the tank; either to find them and put it back together, or take everything out.

How do I sanatize my cork tubes with the moss on them? 
Do I need new plants? 
Is there any way to save the springtails? Do I need to take out the hydroballs and screen mess protector? 
If they end up being alive, do I put the tank back as normal? 
If ones alive but not the other, do I need to sanatize? (I wld take the frog out)

Ik it's a lot I just want to make sure everything's at its best potential for the frogs.
Thanks guys!


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