# New Dart Frog Exo Terra the good and the bad.



## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

I am constructing my first vivarium using the newer Dart Frog Exo Terra and while I think there are improvements I see a few good changes and a few fails.

The good.

The new drain system is awesome if you actually use it. Just a thin layer of leca balls and I no longer have to dread building an egg crate bottom to reduce weight. My least favorite thing in the -world to do. This is usually why I stall in making new setups.
The gap tolerance on the glass is improved.
The top has partial glass and screen even though I would prefer more glass.
You can easily drill the top to add mist king nozzles. You need 2 singles instead of the typical double.

The bad

I hate how you can't remove the top unless you can open it a full 90 degrees because it just swings up being hinged in the back. This is crap if you use a bakers rack system because then you can't take the top off. I used to have an extra top I converted to glass that I would swap out for cleaning.
The biggest flaw is the bottom spacing below the vent on the 18x18x18 is an inch smaller than that on the old12x12x24. The old 18x18x18 is about double. I only partially understand what they were going for, If you actually use the drain there is no need to have as big of a false bottom. You only need a small layer of leca balls.
The new Dart Exo 18x18x18 is actually shorter than the old 12x12x18 and 18x18x18. So they don't look clean sitting side by side in a bakers rack. It looks like the inch of glass they saved on the bottom they didn't add into the top which was silly.
You have to use the drain system because you can't have decent leca layer.
I think the top still has too much screen and not enough glass but this can be remedied with plastic wrap or cutting a piece of glass and fitting it into the opening in the screen section.

The final verdict
I will try and make it work but I really think the bottom section still needed to be a little deeper to support a larger bioactive layer. Look at the marketing material online for the enclosure and you will see they almost have no or no ABG mix layer or even a screen above the leca???








Marketing picture. How is this even bioactive without any soil? I don't even see a screen .











Height next to standard 12x12x18. See how its shorter.










How are you going to make a good bioactive layer in that space with some leca without covering the front vents? Anybody that has ever worked with a 12x12x18 knows that even had a smaller bottom section than a 18x18x18. This is even smaller.


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## jeffkruse (Jun 5, 2018)

What if you just had one or two layers of egg crate directly on the bottom with a hole snipped out for the drain. Then screen on top of that?


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

You can remove the hinged top. You have to open it up until its vertical and pull up on it.


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

JPP said:


> You can remove the hinged top. You have to open it up until its vertical and pull up on it.


I just tried and it does come off fairly easy but the main issue for me is it doesn't work in a bakers rack or if you can't open the top all the way.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Here's my review of the 18x18x24" new exo terra "tree frog terrarium" "New" exo terra "tree frog...

I did my build with using foam filter as the false bottom, I quite like how that's working. So far I've got a nice springtail population growing in the tank.


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

jeffkruse said:


> What if you just had one or two layers of egg crate directly on the bottom with a hole snipped out for the drain. Then screen on top of that?



That is a good idea but how much weight are you really saving for the trouble is what I wonder. You still need leca around the edges which I think is important because they help wick some of the water up into the substrate. If you want live plants you need at least 2 inches of abg I like more like 2.5 - 3 and still need room for the leaf layer which will block the vents. I really think they needed more room. I would not have made the bottom section any smaller than the standard 12x12x18 size. I'm sure the tank will work but it could have been a little better. Look at their display picture that isn't even bioactive. More like hydroponic  You would need to add nutrients.


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Here's my review of the 18x18x24" new exo terra "tree frog terrarium" "New" exo terra "tree frog...
> 
> I did my build with using foam filter as the false bottom, I quite like how that's working. So far I've got a nice springtail population growing in the tank.


I saw what you did with the foam and pvc but by adding an inch so there is always water at the bottom do you feel you were able to get enough substrate in?


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## jeffkruse (Jun 5, 2018)

aapuzzo said:


> That is a good idea but how much weight are you really saving for the trouble is what I wonder. You still need leca around the edges which I think is important because they help wick some of the water up into the substrate. If you want live plants you need at least 2 inches of abg I like more like 2.5 - 3 and still need room for the leaf layer which will block the vents. I really think they needed more room. I would not have made the bottom section any smaller than the standard 12x12x18 size. I'm sure the tank will work but it could have been a little better. Look at their display picture that isn't even bioactive. More like hydroponic  You would need to add nutrients.


I understand what you are saying and feel the same way but my understanding is most of the plants are not plants that go in the soil. Also, you don't want water wicking up. That's the whole purpose of the egg crate.


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

jeffkruse said:


> I understand what you are saying and feel the same way but my understanding is most of the plants are not plants that go in the soil. Also, you don't want water wicking up. That's the whole purpose of the egg crate.


I agree with what you are saying about wicking up but it's not that much. Just enough to help keep my soil from drying out. I have more of a problem where I live with soil drying out and not holding humidity. I guess it's similar to the reason that I like to always see some water in the bottom. The leca isn't really a sponge. To the same effect if you fully drain the bottom the leca can actually wick water out of the substrate.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

aapuzzo said:


> I saw what you did with the foam and pvc but by adding an inch so there is always water at the bottom do you feel you were able to get enough substrate in?


I didn't use any substrate: just filter foam then a thin layer of pea gravel and then 2" of leaf litter. I don't tend to grow a lot of terrestrial plants so this works fine for me.


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## lork-the-mighty (May 11, 2021)

aapuzzo said:


> Marketing picture. How is this even bioactive without any soil? I don't even see a screen .


The substrate in it is their new special vivarium substrate, and I think plants do well in it. They don't need a screen + drainage layer because I'm guessing the drain is always open.


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

lork-the-mighty said:


> The substrate in it is their new special vivarium substrate, and I think plants do well in it. They don't need a screen + drainage layer because I'm guessing the drain is always open.


Are you talking about the rainforest soil? I can see that working for plants but not how it doesn't go down into the leca balls without a screen.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Exo Terra markets their "sub stratum" as a combination substrate and drainage layer


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

lork-the-mighty said:


> The substrate in it is their new special vivarium substrate, and I think plants do well in it. They don't need a screen + drainage layer because I'm guessing the drain is always open.


Ok I just spent some time looking and the stuff in the photo above is Exo Terra Substratum and it isn't leca balls. In the picture above from the marketing material it definitely looks like they left the screen out and don't seem to have a substrate added. They do mention the material is nutrient rich. Looks like they just added moss and stuff but if you watch their videos it shows the real concept. They add a slope with their substratum and put a screen in between a soil layer. The slope helps with the lower front and they even mention it was created lower than before. I do wish the tank was the same height and they had the extra inch. It doesn't need to be as high as the standard 18x18 but at least the 12x12.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

slope the bottom with MUCH higher substrate to the rear.


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## Lovelyk (Feb 7, 2021)

aapuzzo said:


> Ok I just spent some time looking and the stuff in the photo above is Exo Terra Substratum and it isn't leca balls. In the picture above from the marketing material it definitely looks like they left the screen out and don't seem to have a substrate added. They do mention the material is nutrient rich. Looks like they just added moss and stuff but if you watch their videos it shows the real concept. They add a slope with their substratum and put a screen in between a soil layer. The slope helps with the lower front and they even mention it was created lower than before. I do wish the tank was the same height and they had the extra inch. It doesn't need to be as high as the standard 18x18 but at least the 12x12.


I was wondering about that new substrate here, and others’ thoughts suppose that this substratum is basically the Fluval aquarium stuff: Exo Terra Volcanic Substrate


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

Lovelyk said:


> I was wondering about that new substrate here, and others’ thoughts suppose that this substratum is basically the Fluval aquarium stuff: Exo Terra Volcanic Substrate







That's what It sounds like. I wonder if it will eventually clog the drain. They are definitely using it under a screen layer here and not in the photo above. Roots will grow through a screen but I wonder if you could really just use this stuff alone. I actually happen to have a bag of fluval stratum I use with my cherry shrimp and it does look like the same thing. I would like to get a bag of the exo terra stuff and compare. If this is the case you can buy fluval at any chain petstore. I can't see Fluval stratum hurting a dart frog if it is aquarium safe. If you can use this all by itself that sure would make life easy however I don't know if that would work as leaves break down. Maybe it would be fine after all since it doesn't hold much water. You might be able to even use the same stuff above and below a screen barrier. Fluval stratum does break down in an aquarium but this won't be even close to the same conditions. They are both volcanic substrates so probably collected by the same volcano in Japan.


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## Leoito (Mar 4, 2021)

aapuzzo said:


> The biggest flaw is the bottom spacing below the vent on the 18x18x18 is an inch smaller than that on the old12x12x24. The old 18x18x18 is about double. I only partially understand what they were going for, If you actually use the drain there is no need to have as big of a false bottom. You only need a small layer of leca balls.
> You have to use the drain system because you can't have decent leca layer.
> I think the top still has too much screen and not enough glass but this can be remedied with plastic wrap or cutting a piece of glass and fitting it into the opening in the screen section.
> 
> ...


Not trying to deviate the thread, but I just wanted to compare my experiences with the 24" (really ~23") version of the new Exo Terra line. Firstly, the 24" tall model remedies the bottom spacing dilemma; this difference in vent height between the two (something that's less noticeable or simply not present between the standard Exo Terra vivs) then leads me to believe it's an aesthetic decision on Exo Terra's part. 
Similarly, I haven't had to take advantage of the draining system of the 24" tall model yet because of its deeper glass space below the vent. This may be due in part to the watering regime I take advantage of (hand misting daily), but it certainly helps that my substrate layer can and could be even deeper in the 24" tall.
















I agree with the comment on the lid's vent being overly large and allowing too much humidity to leak out; it should ideally only take up 1/2 or 1/3 of its current lid area. Plastic wrap, glass, and acrylic covers for this part of this area all seem like good ideas—I'm experimenting around with a window frame-plastic film combo at present.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

aapuzzo said:


> That's what It sounds like. I wonder if it will eventually clog the drain. They are definitely using it under a screen layer here and not in the photo above. Roots will grow through a screen but I wonder if you could really just use this stuff alone. I actually happen to have a bag of fluval stratum I use with my cherry shrimp and it does look like the same thing. I would like to get a bag of the exo terra stuff and compare. If this is the case you can buy fluval at any chain petstore. I can't see Fluval stratum hurting a dart frog if it is aquarium safe. If you can use this all by itself that sure would make life easy however I don't know if that would work as leaves break down. Maybe it would be fine after all since it doesn't hold much water. You might be able to even use the same stuff above and below a screen barrier. Fluval stratum does break down in an aquarium but this won't be even close to the same conditions. They are both volcanic substrates so probably collected by the same volcano in Japan.


Its likely the exact same substrate collected in the exact same place. Fluval and Exo Terra are the same company, they're both divisions of Hagen. Much like Aqueon and Zilla are also the same company. They both just have aquatics and reptile branding. Even the substrate names, "Stratum" and "Sub Stratum"...one is derived from the other.


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## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

Leoito said:


> Not trying to deviate the thread, but I just wanted to compare my experiences with the 24" (really ~23") version of the new Exo Terra line. Firstly, the 24" tall model remedies the bottom spacing dilemma; this difference in vent height between the two (something that's less noticeable or simply not present between the standard Exo Terra vivs) then leads me to believe it's an aesthetic decision on Exo Terra's part.
> Similarly, I haven't had to take advantage of the draining system of the 24" tall model yet because of its deeper glass space below the vent. This may be due in part to the watering regime I take advantage of (hand misting daily), but it certainly helps that my substrate layer can and could be even deeper in the 24" tall.
> 
> 
> ...


I have no idea why they didn't make them the same heights and I noticed in the video the tree from vavarium. The new 24" high version had a taller bottom just like the standard vavariums have a taller bottom on the bigger version. I imagine it is about as high as the standard 12" high vivarium's.

Also I have no idea why they covered only half of the top and didn't give us a way to cover more if needed. Even a Zilla bow front vivarium I have came with a piece of plastic to cover 3/4. It really doesn't save me the time of having to cut a piece of glass.


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## Nina Bolen (Nov 22, 2020)

One question. Has anyone tried using the area that was meant for misters heads? I read that it was "mister ready" but I'm guessing it's only for their monsoon mister & a mistking head won't fit in it's place? I was hoping that wasn't the case because I hate drilling glass for misters lol


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Nina Bolen said:


> One question. Has anyone tried using the area that was meant for misters heads? I read that it was "mister ready" but I'm guessing it's only for their monsoon mister & a mistking head won't fit in it's place? I was hoping that wasn't the case because I hate drilling glass for misters lol


It is for the monsoon system. I had to drill a hole for my mistking system . I may need to redrill it in the glass because the plastic is so thin that the bulkhead connection for the nozzle rattles when the system is on.


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## d.crockett (May 27, 2009)

So, I am really curious, with the difference in height compared to the old models, are the new models the same width? The old model was like 18.5" with the trim, and I'd be interested to know if the new models are the same.


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## BG-frogger (11 mo ago)

Nina Bolen said:


> d.crockett said:
> 
> 
> > So, I am really curious, with the difference in height compared to the old models, are the new models the same width? The old model was like 18.5" with the trim, and I'd be interested to know if the new models are the same.
> ...


i saw a video where you use the mist king nozzles with twisty tee through the mister holes. Looks super easy. Going to try this in next few weeks. I don’t think you need to make any holes.


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