# Pum Found Dead?



## MSon (Aug 15, 2014)

Hey all, this is regarding Cayo Nancy's. So I knew from the start I had 3 calling males. And an unknown. After I separated the two from the dominant male I put them in a 20 gallon vert. Well several weeks later I noticed my red phased male getting black marks on his body, so I figured it was aggression or temperature so I moved him into his own 10 gallon. Yesterday he was fine, eating like a champ and everything, today I go to reset my mistking and he's sitting on a brom dead. I have never hand any issues with darts like this before. What happened? Feedbacks great!


----------



## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Make sure to post all your tank parameters (humidity, temperature, setup, feeding schedule, supplements, age of supplements, etc.) and as many pictures as possible for better/faster replies. Most, if not all replies will be best guesses. If you really want to be sure what happened to it, have your vet perform a necropsy.


----------



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Even though he seemed fine after you moved him it still could have been residual stress that led to a compromised ability to fight off nasties that are normally present and stressed Pumilio can certainly be off color. The black spots don't seem like they would be stress but it could be a bacterial infection related to the previous set up. Keep a close eye on the rest, if they are OK there is a good chance it was the previous set up.
Unfortunately you will probably never know what killed it, I hope you don't lose any more.


----------



## MSon (Aug 15, 2014)

Terrarium 18x18x24, live planted, several broms, vines, leaf litter, and hides. Humidity 80ish. Temperature mid 70s. Feeding every 3rd day. Supplemented with Rep Cal Herptivite and Calcium. Both fairly new and refrigerated. Also Repashy Vit A once a month. I had 4 Nancy's total, lost another male today. I noticed he was calling and was observing when I noticed his eyes were grey or see through like.? Shortly after 30 mins he stopped moving and that was that. The dominant male and suspect female are still looking good. The second orange phased male today that passed also had black markings on his head and some on his lower back. The only one with no signs of the black skin is the suspect female. I've never had this happen with any of my pums or darts in general. Also both males were moved into separate 10 gallons away from the suspect pair. Again both frogs were eating and calling as normal and all of the sudden they just died. One day after the other.


----------



## MSon (Aug 15, 2014)

And to correct myself the humidity only climbs up to about 80 after the mistking kicks on. Throughout the day it's a bit below.


----------



## dendrorani (Jan 30, 2009)

Wow, this is really weird. I have had agression in the past between pumilios and it ended with a dead male. But you seem to be having some kind of bacteria/disease in their tank. 
I can't seem to put together an all calling male with his death 30 minutes later on...

What type of water do you mist them with? tap, RO/DI ?...

Could be related to chemicals in the water... 

Some thoughts,

Rani


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

It is kinda odd to me that he was calling that soon before death, but maybe that is actually a sign that he was stressed out? ...But if both deceased frogs aquired those black marks that suggest to me a pathogen in the tank or infection in the frog, but like others said stress probably played a role in it overwhelming the frog, and sadly as JP noted a necropsy is the only chance to find out for sure probably.

I didn't see any red flags in your description of the circumstances. The only thing more I can think to say is that sometimes our tendency to "hover", or wanna "save" a frog that seems to be struggling or we are concerned about due to other deaths can actually add to the problem.

Basically my new frog policy is hands off after some quick pics unless I was going to attempt treating with meds, enough aggression to concern me, I see the frog on its back, or about to drown. 

Moving a frog is always a tough choice because the added stress could be the final nail, but you have to consider the other frogs too, and just make the best play you can with the info you have.

Condolences on your loss.


----------

