# Can the drainage layer water cause any problems?



## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

So i setup my drainage layer to have 2" of space for water. I used egg crate with pvc holding it up then i put double window screen and my substrate. I setup my viv a little over a month ago and drained it today it had about 3/4" of nasty brown water down there that stunk terribly. Can that cause any problems with frogs? Also o had probably 1000 springtails in it that were still alive. Any ideas on how to keep them from going down there?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

All of my tanks have bulkheads to drain the water automatically. The drainage water doesn't really have much of a smell this way. 

Do you have frogs in the tank?


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## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> All of my tanks have bulkheads to drain the water automatically. The drainage water doesn't really have much of a smell this way.
> 
> Do you have frogs in the tank?


I really wish i would have done this. A little late now though!


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## connorology (Oct 6, 2018)

I don't really drain my frog viv very frequently, maybe every 6-12 months if needed. I don't recall the wastewater ever being malodorous though. I wonder if you're losing organic material into the wastewater? My understanding is that the odor comes from anaerobic bacteria breaking down organic material, so wastewater alone shouldn't have much of a smell. How hard is it to drain your vivarium? And what substrate are you using?


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## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

connorology said:


> I don't really drain my frog viv very frequently, maybe every 6-12 months if needed. I don't recall the wastewater ever being malodorous though. I wonder if you're losing organic material into the wastewater? My understanding is that the odor comes from anaerobic bacteria breaking down organic material, so wastewater alone shouldn't have much of a smell. How hard is it to drain your vivarium? And what substrate are you using?


Its not hard i just drop tubing down the pvc i have in there and siphon it out. I am using ABG substrate. I doubled the screen so stuff wouldn't fall through. No substrate was in it it was just brown stinky water lol


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

You mentioned seeing living springtails which would indicate there would be a percentage of dead and decomposing also. They are moisture seeking, nutrient seeking, fairly photo phobic organisms.

Using physical and behavioral laws of attraction to localize organisms esp bugs can work more predictably and manageably than most other means.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

What could they be seeking or avoiding that isnt to favor in the terra strata?


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## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

Kmc said:


> What could they be seeking or avoiding that isnt to favor in the terra strata?


That i do not know, i thought it was weird to see that many down there. Im assuming they were there for the water. My substrate isnt dry my mistking goes off 3 times a day for 20 seconds at a time and while I am waiting for frogs I drop a little brewers yeast in for them


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

your substrate will probably be constantly saturated if you manage to have so much water in the drainage layer within a month. The advice is to water less and to change the spraying time to, for example, 3 x 5 sec per day. And then keep a close eye on the substrate.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Ryanscotty1 said:


> a little brewers yeast


There's your stink fuel.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I like to smear foodstuff on slate fragments. You can stick them any where. 

They will either be picked clean or quickly cleaned with a bottle cap of hydrogen peroxide - foams - hot rinse - reapply.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> All of my tanks have bulkheads to drain the water automatically. The drainage water doesn't really have much of a smell this way.


Likewise. This is what came into my head until I read about the yeast (yuck). My "tea" has no stink at all, in fact when I enter my herp room I'm just hit by warm humidity and an odor like humus - like when you're off-trail in the woods, sit down and pull away the dry leaf litter, exposing the moist black stuff below. "What you crap in." Ha ha ha. But really, it smells like humus.



> I really wish i would have done this. A little late now though!


Not necessarily. You could do a Uniseal, a short piece of pipe, and a ball valve (or no valve, and just put a bucket or jug under the drain pipe or hose - cheaper and simpler). 

I love gravity, _it's very reliable_.



> My substrate isnt dry my mistking goes off 3 times a day for 20 seconds at a time





> your substrate will probably be constantly saturated if you manage to have so much water in the drainage layer within a month


+1 on dial it back some - I live in a desert, all my vivs have LOTS of passive ventilation, and even still, I do less misting than you. Basically shoot for a steady water level in the false bottom. If you're doing a whole lot of dumping or sucking, you're adding too much (another way to say "way more than you need"). If the false bottom stays dry, you're probably not adding enough (and you're definitely not enjoying any of the benefits of keeping a "reservoir" in the false bottom).

For comparison, or reference, or ridicule - I make and use about 7 gallons of RO water a week, in a herp room about 15x12 feet that's full of mostly mature, grown-in vivs that are all drilled & drained. I'm misting everything, and have drip walls in most, and do a little spot hand-watering in all. I also hand-water all my snakes (in the vivs) with tap water - call it another gallon a week. The evapotranspiration that happens in that room leaves less than 2 quarts a week of drain water to dump. So 32 liquid quarts go in, and 2 or fewer come out. (I insulated and then waterproofed the living shit out of my chilly basement walls & ceiling - I just crack the window and let the desert eat the RH out of the room. No wall sweating, no mildew.)

Anyway - good luck with the stink etc. Fun times.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Still, all things considered* it would be important to determine whether decomposing matter, ie flushed down or migrated numbers of microfauna are responsible for the putridity of the water as such a biological mishap needs assertive address.

Aeromonas born disease from water vehicled contamination is a concern.


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## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Still, all things considered* it would be important to determine whether decomposing matter, ie flushed down or migrated numbers of microfauna are responsible for the putridity of the water as such a biological mishap needs assertive address.
> 
> Aeromonas born disease from water vehicled contamination is a concern.


Its a new tank, maybe 2 months old now so honestly idk. I know not very much if any leaf litter has broken down


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

You would do that by seeing floating springs and taking a cut section of substrate and examining it for oddity springs population close to the waterlog. They will break down quickly and disintegrate imperceptibly so you may have to really look and also use your sense of smell. The leaf matter breaking down isnt a factor. 

Personally I just think it prudent to rule out contamination wicking up into the substrate that could create unsafe contact.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Some (more) thoughts:

1) Put a pinch of that brewer's yeast in a little water. Cap it. Leave it for a week. Open it and sniff. Is that the smell?

2) What is the smell, exactly, or what other yucky thing does it smell similar to? It might be something that someone can identify. (Y'all, don't give any hints or you'll bias the test ).

3) Is it possible that the water really isn't all that smelly? Those of us who hang out with a lot of animals all day might not even notice it. I just mucked out a barn and didn't notice the smell much at all because it is simply what I expected.

4) Since _Aeromonas _bacteria are found in all kinds of water (dirty, clean, chlorinated, saltwater, etc), and given that your egg crate setup is the most wicking-restant design possible, I wouldn't be too worried about that.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Sorry Soc, but I must prudently disagree. 'whole' organism putrification is well known as a dangerous potential for contact contamination. Very important to weigh input beyond personal opinion and bias.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

OP describes what sounded like inordinate migration of springs toward waterbed. Hence my commentary.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

No citations beyond what I leaned about _aeromonas _from an exotics veterinarian that worked in the Reptile House of the Brooklyn Zoo, and interned at the Bronx one.

My strictest Boss.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Kmc said:


> personal opinion and bias.


Careful.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I was advised by this veterinarian - who is my most cherished reference, to refrain from online message boards.

I am being careful.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Aeromonas hydrophila is indeed ubiquitous in a wide range of aquatic circumstances, but because they are considered a primary pathogen, to discount closed system contamination potential is a lapse of judgement in approach.


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## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Some (more) thoughts:
> 
> 1) Put a pinch of that brewer's yeast in a little water. Cap it. Leave it for a week. Open it and sniff. Is that the smell?
> 
> ...


Honestly it just smelled like stagnant nasty pond water. It tasted even worse when i siphoned it out (believe me i wasnt trying to taste it). I siphoned it all out and i dont notice any weird smell at all now. I think i should have siphoned it out sooner.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Im glad you found it not so bad. Putrid water from dead things etc can harbor all kinds of nasty little rods and squiggles.


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## SimonL (Aug 29, 2020)

Ryanscotty1 said:


> It tasted even worse when i siphoned it out (believe me i wasnt trying to taste it).


And that, dear reader, was the last anyone ever heard of @Ryanscotty1


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> > Ryanscotty1 said:
> > It tasted even worse when i siphoned it out (believe me i wasnt trying to taste it).
> 
> 
> And that, dear reader, was the last anyone ever heard of @Ryanscotty1


_Damn that's fuckin funny!_ He's probably still shitting his guts out, and toughing out the cold sweats.

Yo, Ryan - get a siphon, man. Take care of yourself. If you can't manage that you've got no business keeping animals.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

This is a great tool for siphoning drainage water:









500/550ml Large Syringe with 31.5 Inch Tube, Extra Big Plastic Garden Syringes for Liquid, Paint, Epoxy Resin, Oil, Watering Plants, Scientific Labs, Refilling: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


500/550ml Large Syringe with 31.5 Inch Tube, Extra Big Plastic Garden Syringes for Liquid, Paint, Epoxy Resin, Oil, Watering Plants, Scientific Labs, Refilling: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


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## Ryanscotty1 (Jan 24, 2021)

jgragg said:


> _Damn that's fuckin funny!_ He's probably still shitting his guts out, and toughing out the cold sweats.
> 
> Yo, Ryan - get a siphon, man. Take care of yourself. If you can't manage that you've got no business keeping animals.


A little dirty water never hurt me. Im a hairy legged carpenter from Tx. Ive swam in horse tanks waaaay dirtier than that. Plus it boosts the ol immune system lol!


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> A little dirty water never hurt me.


Well, it's killed a shit-ton of people so don't push your luck. I've spent way too much time pissing out my ass on nasty toilets in the third world to fuck around with sketchy water any more. Amoebas are *no joke*. Ditto viruses.

What sort of carpenter? Framer, finisher, what's your thing? How's construction there? Lumber is _through the roof_ here. It's ridiculous, the supply/demand imbalance right now. It'll get sorted, but meanwhile...phew.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

In a siphon hurry i ended up getting thrush. 

Like a mouth full of opened safety pins.


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