# Misting for Beginners



## Gamble

I have talked to "newer" members and they seemed to be under the impression that misting is not just for humidity purposes but that the frogs "needed" the water.

My stance was of hypothetical nature: that the misting was for the humidity, not a specific need of the frogs directly and you could potentially go months without misting, even if everything "looked dry" as long as the humidity was still high enough. (High enough being 60/70% plus) ... correct? Comments?

I bring this up only bc the subject of "misting" isnt discussed enough IMO. We all know that it needs done, but for newer members, it hasnt really been explained in terms of proper technique and reasons.

So I am starting this thread to jump start a discussion on proper misting techniques, purpose/reasons, and to basically educate newer people to the hobby on the misting aspect of our vivariums, bc as I have stated already, this is a topic that isnt discussed enough.

So ... What are some important things that you all think a new member should know about misting?

Thanks.


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## cml1287

Another reason people mist is for the plants. If you look around, you'll see a lot of the plants people use in their tanks belong to the _Bromeliad_ family, and are considered "air plants." That means they don't have a traditional or elaborate root structures to absorb water and nutrients. Many (all?) bromeliads have a "cup" in the center of the plant which is used to collect and retain water and nutrients. _Tillandsias_ which fall under the same family, have hardly any root structure, and absorb water and nutrients through their leaves.

Obviously if you have these in your tank, a misting is required to maintain these plants.


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## Gamble

cml1287 said:


> Another reason people mist is for the plants. If you look around, you'll see a lot of the plants people use in their tanks belong to the _Bromeliad_ family, and are considered "air plants." That means they don't have a traditional or elaborate root structures to absorb water and nutrients. Many (all?) bromeliads have a "cup" in the center of the plant which is used to collect and retain water and nutrients. _Tillandsias_ which fall under the same family, have hardly any root structure, and absorb water and nutrients through their leaves.
> 
> Obviously if you have these in your tank, a misting is required to maintain these plants.


Correct ... but how OFTEN should one mist the tank if they have these plants in their tank?
What is the proper way to mist if it is this kind of setup? How long can these plants go without misting?

Great example. 

Things like this are great scenarios that a beginner might encounter & provide an opportunity to give these members more specific direction instead of leaving it open to translation & their own often misguided interpretation of proper techniques.


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## cml1287

As far as the frequency is concerned, someone else may have to provide specifics. 

With that being said - I would say it should be "as needed." I know that might sound rather broad, but let me explain.

Obviously, you shouldn't have to worry about drowning/over-watering these plants, because if they're mounted correctly, they should never be exposed to standing water. 

With bromeliads, especially with frogs who are utilizing them to breed, people may mist more frequently (daily or more?) as to facilite water changes in the "cup" of the bromeliad. If you leave the tads in the tank to develop (or they must be left in, like pums), this can help facilitate water changes for the tadpole. 

I mist on a daily basis. I would bet that most people who have an automatic system (I don't) also mist on a daily basis. 

When it comes to watering, I think the most important thing a beginner has to be aware of is standing water in the soil. Not only can this rot the roots of the plant, but it can shorten the "life" of your soil. This is probably part of the reason why creating false bottoms is extremely popular, so that water can have a place to drain and not pool in the soil. 



Gamble said:


> Correct ... but how OFTEN should one mist the tank if they have these plants in their tank?
> What is the proper way to mist if it is this kind of setup? How long can these plants go without misting?
> 
> Great example.
> 
> Things like this are great scenarios that a beginner might encounter & provide an opportunity to give these members more specific direction instead of leaving it open to translation & their own often misguided interpretation of proper techniques.


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## Daleo

I mist my tanks fairly often. Once/twice a day by hand trying to saturate all parts of the viv. I do this because I keep very tropical plants and moss. I also have moderate ventilation. On days that I feed, I skip a misting because the fruit flies will drown in the water otherwise. Then I'll mist when they've had a chance to eat. 

In general I like to keep my viv wet and not let it dry completely. Maybe this isn't the best way but it works for me. None of my frogs are breeding age yet, so I don't worry about wet/dry seasons.


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## mydumname

My permanent tanks.on a Mister get misted a few times a day. 

My temporary tanks are not on a mister get misted when I feel.like it....which is not.very often.


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## cml1287

Daleo said:


> On days that I feed, I skip a misting because the fruit flies will drown in the water otherwise. Then I'll mist when they've had a chance to eat.


On days that I feed, I'll usually mist right before the lights go off. This helps to make the flies be a little bit more active, and my frogs (who demonstrate unusual behavior) really only eat after the lights have gone off.


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## zBrinks

Keep in mind that misting will also wash frog waste and such down to the bottom of the vivarium, where it can more effectively be broken down. 

Even in a humid environment, I think it's vital to provide frogs with access to a bit of water (be it a damp surface or actual body of water) where they can 'drink' by absorbing water through their seat patch.


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## Gamble

zBrinks said:


> Keep in mind that misting will also wash frog waste and such down to the bottom of the vivarium, where it can more effectively be broken down.
> 
> Even in a humid environment, I think it's vital to provide frogs with access to a bit of water (be it a damp surface or actual body of water) where they can 'drink' by absorbing water through their seat patch.


I agree , but what of some comments that ive read else where that most tanks these days are "too damp". (Im playing Devils Advocate here). Where is the happy medium? If the microfauna load was at a sufficient level, wouldnt that cut down on the need to mist for the purpose of "waste cleanup"?

Heres another question: 
Where is the line drawn between too wet & too dry? 
What is too wet? 
What are some things that a beginner can look for so that they can tell: I need to mist today, im misting too much, or my tank is great where its at.


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## zBrinks

If the frogs are out grazing on microfauna and your vivarium has a nice fresh rain smell then you're probably about spot on.

If the frogs are up off the substrate all the time and your vivarium has a heavy or smelly/rotten odor, it's too wet.

If the frogs are constantly visiting a provided source of water and there is no odor at all, it's too dry.

That's just my 10 cents, and by no means a definitive set of guidelines. IME, it tends to hold true most of the time.


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## mydumname

Seat patch.....that's awesome


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## Gamble

zBrinks said:


> If the frogs are out grazing on microfauna and your vivarium has a nice fresh rain smell then you're probably about spot on.
> 
> If the frogs are up off the substrate all the time and your vivarium has a heavy or smelly/rotten odor, it's too wet.
> 
> If the frogs are constantly visiting a provided source of water and there is no odor at all, it's too dry.
> 
> That's just my 10 cents, and by no means a definitive set of guidelines. IME, it tends to hold true most of the time.


Great explanation Zach.


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## ivas

I think I am in the minority in that I only mist my established tanks about once per week, if that. The only purpose I mist is to get the frog poop off of my plants. This regemin has worked for me for years. The humidity is constantly high because the soil, wood, and backgrounds are moist, not to mention plant respiration and transpiration, and bromeliads filled with water. I do squirt water directly into bromeliad cups when they look dry, which is fairly infrequently. My frogs are all very healthy and the adults breed regularly. I notice that breeding activity follows the seasons and especially the weather outside (they get really amped up when a storm front moves in). I wonder what would happen if I misted several times a day...

When I started out, I misted several times daily. Some of the plants became quite waterlogged and wilted or browned, and the glass was always fogged up. Not to mention that it was a lot of effort, especially once I got more frogs.... I am surprised to see how often many people do it (different strokes for different folks!)

I must clarify that I only feel comfortable with infrequent misting after a tank has been set up for several months. Before it is established, I do mist it daily in order to allow the water to soak into the hardscape and get some good plant growth. Also, all of my tanks have glass tops that completely seal the tanks. Most of them have no water feature and access to the false bottoms (egg crate) is done using a small siphon pushed through the soil, I purge the water in the false bottom once or twice per year (another reason I don't mist often).


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## Ripley71

I mist my tanks maybe every other day. I currently have two tens & one 29 standard tanks. My 29 is pretty established w/ plants so it never really looks dried out. My tens are still kind of establishing themselves (w/ plants). So comes out to every other day of hand misting, for now. Of course I check the tanks daily if more misting is needed. So currently it is not an exact science. I do have a mistking that I eventually will set up once I have all my tanks on a rack.


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## tachikoma

My orange terribilis tank has not been misted in over 8 months. I have it in another room away from the mistking while I have been building my zoomed rack, seems to be doing fine since it's sealed.


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## B-NICE

I mist every other day, or depending how dry the viv's look. However I mist my verts daily, because that vent is too big IMO and it seems as if everything gets drier fast in them.


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## Mer_

I mist twice a week, and this seems to be working. Sometimes I mist more if things look rather dry or to get dirt off the glass. In the beginning I was misting daily, but after a couple of months the background and wood had enough moisture in them so I reduced it to twice weekly.


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## redfrogger

I mist every other day (on days I don't feed). I have noticed that the humidity will stay higher longer by having more deposition film canisters filled with water scattered around the viv too.


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## jacobi

Gamble said:


> I agree , but what of some comments that ive read else where that most tanks these days are "too damp".


That's because people tend not to have sufficient ventilation. I have on occasion misted my vivarium with 5 gallons of water (I run a drainage tube at the same time) and half an hour later standing water on the leaves is drying. I have gone 4-5 days without misting or even water in the false bottom, frogs were fine. In fact, the plants actually do better when I mist every other day.


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## Gamble

Since I havent posted about this yet, here is my response:

I mist depending on the "season".
During the summer months I mist 1-2x a day & I feed everyday.
In the fall, I start cutting back my misting to around everyother day, misting once & feeding everyother day ... same during the spring.
During the winter, I mist 1-2 times per week and while still feeding everyother day, I am feeding in smaller amounts. 
I do this to "cycle" my frogs down & reduce breeding.

So far this has worked for me. My frogs are still breeding but not anywhere close to what they are when im misting & feeding everyday.


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## Ed

It should also be noted that if you have a properly ventilated enclosure, misting can also help cause some turn over of the air in the tank reducing the risk of stagnation... 

There are too many variables which range from climate, to preferences on how you control temperatures in your house to size and placements of vents that impact how often misting needs to be done... I do think that given the prevelence of totally sealed enclosures, people mist thier tanks far too frequently and keep thier enclosures far too wet... I've brought it up before but there are indications in the literature that humidity as low as 60% is perfectly acceptable for many frogs... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## frogparty

Ive let my leuc tank got a month without misting and it does have passive ventilation. Some people seriously over mist their tanks, and it shows

Im a big fan of condensation on glass to dictate my need for misting.


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## mydumname

frogparty said:


> Some people seriously over mist their tanks, *and it shows*


Can you explain the part I bolded?


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## ICS523

I mist my 18x18x24 zoo med once every few days and I mist my 18x18 exo terra a little every day, but that's just because the plants haven't grown in yet (I've noticed they give of a lot of water into the air and they really help with humidity).


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## bsr8129

So there is no guide to misting then?


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## LizardLicker

I think it is definitely true that it would be easy to over mist. I have my bicolors in temporary plastic boxes. I didn't add any holes, but there is some air exchange from a small gap between the lid and box. 

I misted them when I set them up and once after that. I haven't since then which has been a few weeks now. I would still say it is almost too wet in the boxes. I still get a lot of condensation, and the moss has always stayed wet. I also put some of the cuttings that came with them in their boxes. They have been growing just fine with only ambient light and without further misting.


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## Gamble

bsr8129 said:


> So there is no guide to misting then?


Here is something I posted almost 2 years ago:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/63527-fyi-misting-newbs-beginners.html

It reads as follows:

"This is for the new people to the hobby.
This caused a little confusion for me when I first started, so I assumed I probably wasn't the only one ...

When people say to mist the tank for humidity, misting doesn't not mean to "soak" the tank, its just that: mist it.You want enough water to raise humidity n wet the leaves n substrate slightly, but u do not want to oversaturate ur tank like a thunderstorm downpour, leaving everything constantly wet.*Too much moisture in the soil/viv can cause plants to die, soil to rot, respiratory/bacteria infections ... etc ...*
Just enough water that the leaves dry off in 2-3hrs is plenty.
Hope this helps."

Basically to summarize there & here:

You can spot water your plants without misting the entire tank if your plants need it.
As long as your humidity is above 60%-70%, there is no need to mist your tank.
That may take a few days to weeks to months. It all depends on tank size, amount of plants, drainage layer, amount of ventilation ... etc.
(As Ed said, there are too many variables).

So to the beginners, if you do not have a hygrometer; (not the cheap analog dial types ... those are crap); get one.
It is invaluable in knowing where your humidity is & when misting is needed.

I personally use this one:
http://www.joshsfrogs.com/temphumdity-monitoring/exo-terra-digital-thermo-hygrometer.html
There are many options available on the website.

Hope this helps.


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## radiata

zBrinks said:


> If the frogs are out grazing on microfauna and your vivarium has a nice fresh rain smell then you're probably about spot on.
> 
> If the frogs are up off the substrate all the time and your vivarium has a heavy or smelly/rotten odor, it's too wet.
> 
> If the frogs are constantly visiting a provided source of water and there is no odor at all, it's too dry.
> 
> That's just my 10 cents, and by no means a definitive set of guidelines. IME, it tends to hold true most of the time.


Zach,

I rather like your analysis - thank you for the observations!

Bob


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## Dendro Dave

Ed said:


> It should also be noted that if you have a properly ventilated enclosure, misting can also help cause some turn over of the air in the tank reducing the risk of stagnation...
> 
> There are too many variables which range from climate, to preferences on how you control temperatures in your house to size and placements of vents that impact how often misting needs to be done... I do think that given the prevelence of totally sealed enclosures, people mist thier tanks far too frequently and keep thier enclosures far too wet... I've brought it up before but there are indications in the literature that humidity as low as 60% is perfectly acceptable for many frogs...
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


^This.. (And what Gamble said too)

I've left tanks un-misted for months... If there is water in the false bottom, and the tank isn't overly ventilated (which as Ed said, it seems most are not ventilated enough), the frogs should be fine. 

If they are sitting next to your heater, or a fan or something that increases temp/airflow that is going to mean you have to mist more probably, but most of my tanks have about a 1 inch strip of ventilation and no fans (because I'm broke), but with water in the false bottom they will continue to get condensation on the glass after the tank heats up in the mornings...to me that signals that I'm fine. And when the glass is clear if I mist, the glass will have condensation for a few hours, maybe the rest of the day...and be clear or mostly clear the next day. If anything I should probably get a fan running at intervals on a timer.

If a frog has a moist substrate it is likely going to be able to hydroregulate or whatever. They aren't fish...but seems a lot of people would feel safer drowning them like they were.

With some experience you should just be able to consider the placement/conditions in your home, glance over at your viv and go...oh needs to be misted, or nope it is fine. You should be able to walk over to your viv and point to all the places that are the most humid in that tank at any time of day. Understanding microclimates, evaporation, etc..etc... is very helpful and give you the peace of mind that you know what is happening in there an don't need to futz with using blind guesswork. 

Just because the leaves are dry and there aren't puddles everywhere doesn't mean that tank isn't actually pretty saturated...its all about what the soil is holding, and the humidity that is coming from that constant evaporation, how heavily planted is the tank, and how much air is being exchanged, and how humid that air is and so on and on and on...

Basically though if the soil is moist, and it isn't an all screen cage with a fan blowing on it and you have a few plants in there chances are you are fine.


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## Buddysfrogs

How about another question of which kind of water? RO? Tap?


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## Dendro Dave

Buddysfrogs said:


> How about another question of which kind of water? RO? Tap?


IMO RO, distilled or really good rainwater....tap should usually be the last choice and if you do use it try to let it sit for 24 hours to get rid of the chlorine.

Plants tend not to like tap, and in many places your tap water will lead to deposits on the glass. Once in a great while to make sure there are a few minerals in the soil, ok...but not an every day thing.


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## Gamble

Buddysfrogs said:


> How about another question of which kind of water? RO? Tap?


This has been discussed quite a few times in past threads.

Tap water, while usable, will over time clog misting heads & also create a film on plant leaves, essentially disrupting proper photosynthesis. This is due to the mineral content of tap water. 

It is generally recommended to use RO or Distilled water.

Now with tadpoles, tap water is fine as long as a water conditioner is used.


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## ecichlid

Should there be a visible waterline in the false bottom substrate?


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## Gamble

ecichlid said:


> Should there be a visible waterline in the false bottom substrate?


What do you mean by should?

Basically, I usually keep 1/2" - 1" of water in the bottoms of mine, as it helps to regulate the humidity.


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## Dendro Dave

ecichlid said:


> Should there be a visible waterline in the false bottom substrate?


You don't want it dry...part of the purpose of a drainage layer/false bottom is to hold the excess water and allow it to evaporate/wick back into the soil to some degree to keep the soil moist and humidity up. Basically it is there so you don't flood your tank, and saturate your soil, killing all the plants and creating a breeding ground for icky stuff...but still helps keep your humidity up. 

Also water in a false bottom is like a temperature sink. It will make it harder for your tank to heat up or cool down really fast...creating a more stable environment, and buying you time in bad situations.

I usually keep my water level pretty high...like a centimeter under the main substrate layers...sometimes I slightly flood the tank. I do this in part because I have ponds that share their water reservoir with the false bottom...they are essentially one, only there is a barrier to keep tads/frogs out from under the false bottom but still let water pass through. So that lessens the frequency at which I have to top off the pond due to evaporation. 

But I also tend to have fairly thick substrate layers compared to some people (sometimes)...so a little flooding isn't such a big deal in some of my tanks...and the frogs/plants can handle it if it isn't constantly saturated for months at a time. I have periods of laziness...so I will sometimes slightly over mist/fill the false bottom so I can get away with those periods where I forget to mist for a week or 2 or top off a pond. 

So my way, may or may not be the way you want to go...but you do want some water in your false bottom/drainage layer. Generally though it is good to have an air gap between the water table and the main substrate layer. 

When I'm on the ball...I can pretty much mist and what not so that my water table level hardly moves....Just maintains a near constant level over weeks or even months....if it starts going up noticeably over a few days to the point you are in danger of flooding...stop misting for awhile...if it is really bad siphon /pump the water out (A turkey baster can be a quick solution, just don't let the frogs get down under the false bottom through the hole u make) 

If it keeps falling and falling even though you are misting, maybe you aren't misting enough...Also just a tip, if you want to fill up the false bottom a bit but don't have pond connected to it...pour the water down a corner...not to much to fast, but enough that the corner gets saturated enough most of the rest of the water just runs straight through to the false bottom. A little trick that sometimes has a use


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## ecichlid

Thank you folks! I just used a monkey pod that was in the viv as a small bowl and poured in 3 quarts of distilled water. I now have a water level I can see in my false bottom substrate. All is good in the world.


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## Gamble

Bumping this for the new people.


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## tinkgirl77

Great thread!


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## atp0726

Great thread! I was sent here by another post and even though its old won't hurt to to bring it back up to the forefront. 

My viv is about 3 weeks old. I have added NEHerp moss at different stages and according to their instruction its important to keep it misted initially. I have been misting twice a day since day one. My humidity has been staying a constant 89-92 R/H around the clock. Temps drop to 67 and rise to 75 ish. Is this about where I want to keep it or once things are grown in should I relax my misting schedule? When I mist I try and hit mainly the moss is which throughout the entire viv and everthing gets hit at least a little bit.


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## Gamble

Once your moss is established, you should be fine to reduce your misting.

The plants in your viv will help to maintain the humidity. 

As stated previously, 
You don't want to keep your humidity on the higher end long term & a drop to 65-70% is perfectly acceptable & potentially healthier for the frogs. (And also helps in cycling them down in the cooler months).

From what I've read, in the Rainforest, humidity does not stay at 100% all day.
Generally speaking, by midday, it can drop down to the 70% range before the next rain comes.
(I'm basing this on literature I've read).


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## atp0726

when is the best time of day to mist? Is it better to mist in the morning or the evening before the lights go off? I know this isn't a feeding thread but I am realizing that misting and flies don't always go together and the water seems to trap and kill some flies. So, do I feed in the morning and mist in the evening or feed in the evening and mist in the morning. My viv is still only a month old and I feel like it needs a bit more misting especially for the moss. I just added my first frogs this week and I am just realizing the issue with misting and flies. Even if I feed flies every other day I still feel like I need to separate feeding and misting for a certain amount of time.


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## Gamble

atp0726 said:


> when is the best time of day to mist? Is it better to mist in the morning or the evening before the lights go off? I know this isn't a feeding thread but I am realizing that misting and flies don't always go together and the water seems to trap and kill some flies. So, do I feed in the morning and mist in the evening or feed in the evening and mist in the morning. My viv is still only a month old and I feel like it needs a bit more misting especially for the moss. I just added my first frogs this week and I am just realizing the issue with misting and flies. Even if I feed flies every other day I still feel like I need to separate feeding and misting for a certain amount of time.


It shouldn't be a matter of day or night between either.
If your tank is still too wet within a few hours of misting, to the point that you're not comfortable feeding due to moisture, than you're misting too much or your tank doesn't have enough ventilation. 

Your top layer of your tank, (plants & leaf litter), should be dry within a few hours of misting. If it's not, then you have some things to figure out.


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## atp0726

Gamble said:


> It shouldn't be a matter of day or night between either.
> If your tank is still too wet within a few hours of misting, to the point that you're not comfortable feeding due to moisture, than you're misting too much or your tank doesn't have enough ventilation.
> 
> Your top layer of your tank, (plants & leaf litter), should be dry within a few hours of misting. If it's not, then you have some things to figure out.


Ok, I think I am just overcomplicating things. I didn't mist at all yesterday and still maintained a humidity in the upper 80s all day and this morning it was in the low 90s (Per my ExoTerra dual temp/hydro). I was getting concerned last evening after not misting because my mosses towards the top of the viv were looking pretty dry. 

Otherwise plants and leaf litter do dry out completely after a few hours. I have a Zoomed with the ventilation below the door and a 1 inch vent on the top.


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## Dlanigan

I overcomplicate misting as well. Now that my one viv has been running for a few months I now realize that over misting is worse than under misting. If you under mist and have a water bowl for the frogs, this is generally better for plant growth. By under misting i mean letting humidity drop to 65% or so. It seems, if you over mist, plants will suffer, and the death and decay could be bad for the frogs(I would think?). I really feel like letting the water evaporate from the false bottom naturally keeps the tank humid enough (70s+) and any other additional misting should be for plants and mosses. I find that when water is in my false bottom, I literally can mist every three days and still maintain a range of 90%-70% humidity consistently. I was definitely over misting at first and learned my lesson through dead plants and rotting broms. I'm still learning, but over misting really hurt me at first. I actually keep very little water in my false bottom now and I try to let it evaporate into the substrate/tank before adding more to it or misting heavily. This is just what I found works for me in that tank. I think misting is something that new people freak themselves out about (myself included).

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


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## terrim

A very helpful discussion with some good points and tips from senior members. Thank you.


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## Dendro Dave

Dlanigan said:


> I overcomplicate misting as well. Now that my one viv has been running for a few months I now realize that over misting is worse than under misting. If you under mist and have a water bowl for the frogs, this is generally better for plant growth. By under misting i mean letting humidity drop to 65% or so. It seems, if you over mist, plants will suffer, and the death and decay could be bad for the frogs(I would think?). I really feel like letting the water evaporate from the false bottom naturally keeps the tank humid enough (70s+) and any other additional misting should be for plants and mosses. I find that when water is in my false bottom, I literally can mist every three days and still maintain a range of 90%-70% humidity consistently. I was definitely over misting at first and learned my lesson through dead plants and rotting broms. I'm still learning, but over misting really hurt me at first. I actually keep very little water in my false bottom now and I try to let it evaporate into the substrate/tank before adding more to it or misting heavily. This is just what I found works for me in that tank. I think misting is something that new people freak themselves out about (myself included).
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk


Agreed... I actually do it a bit different though. I keep my false bottom nearly full in most of my vivs. That's because many of them have a pond which shares it's water with the false bottom, so if the false bottom is half empty, my pond is half empty. It's pretty easy to mist just enough to keep the water level stable, so that's what I do.

People think they have to saturate everything, and it isn't true. You set your mist system or hand spray so that you just dust everything nicely, and get a little in the substrate to keep it moist and you're good to go. If you run fans and/or have a lot of ventilation, or a dry climate you may need to mist a bit more. 

My vivs typically have 1-2 inch ventilation strip running along the front or back. The false bottom is mostly full for the ponds, and when it is like that I can go without misting for over a month. I get condensation on the glass in the mornings, and I still occasionally kill a plant due to root rot in some older vivs I haven't misted in weeks that don't have a faster draining substrate. Basically moist substrate = you're fine, unless you have an all screen top maybe. But sure the frogs will still like an occasional shower and it may make them more visible and active for longer periods during the day. 

Now for breeding this isn't ideal, because it is best to be able to do dry and wet seasons without killing your plants. If you set your viv up right, and chose your plants well that should be entirely possible. I need to run more fans and I'd be all set, but I'm poor.  

*Just remember kids...
It's called "MISTING", NOT "DRENCHING"*


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## Ryanh1284

So how many head do I use i have a 72 gallon tank and want to set up an automatic misting system just don't know how many heads to use


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## Gamble

Ryanh1284 said:


> So how many head do I use i have a 72 gallon tank and want to set up an automatic misting system just don't know how many heads to use


Hard to say, as it's all personal preference. 
There's no steadfast rule.

You can use one head or use 2. Single nozzle or double nozzle.
You can just lessen or lengthen the time of spray depending on how many you use.

I personally use 2 single heads on my 55s & one head on everything else.


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## frogparty

the # of heads depends entirely on where you need the mist to go. I need to mist heavy on the sides of my larger tanks for the ochids- not so much in the middle... so for a 30" wide tank I use 2 heads. If I had a more evenly planted tank, Id want 3, or 2 dual heads


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## Aldross

Thanks

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


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## Gamble

A new BUMP for the new members.


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## Joe S

Generally speaking I am planning to mist according to the seasons. So I have can my warmer rainy seasons and the dryer cooler seasons. My fear is misting too much and using too many heads.

Having no experience with misting systems like mistking I am unsure of how many will do the job I want it too.The first system ill be running will be 18'' cube vivs. I have been thinking two heads. Ill be using hygrolon on the walls for moss growth, but those will have tails that will drop into the water table. So I shouldnt need to hit them terribly much. Does anyone have any recommendations? By not using so many it would be nice, as heads can be expensive.

Also does anyone know the spray radius of a single nozzle placed top center?


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## zirk33

This is a very good thread. I have a 46g bowfront set up which I had running for a year before adding my Leucs. I was terrified to add frogs and have them die if I didn't have things running correctly. So for my first Viv I got my plants started, have a self contained water feature and also a false bottom. I keep a 3in fan running up in the back corner to keep air circulating and I used a misting schedule (I have the beginner pkg from MistKing) I found here www.mistking.com/MistingChapter.pdf which was written by MistKing and Joshs Frogs. After reading these posts I think I can and will adjust my schedule to mist less. My temp holds pretty steady at 70 degrees dipping overnight to 65 and my humidity averages 80%. My frogs seem very content and are often out and about in the Viv. I can say my tank does not have a bad odor or signs of mold, actually has a fresh forest smell after the misters go off. My water that I tapped from the false bottom is just slightly yellowish and has no odor or bad taste (yes only by accident when my syphon lost its suction).
So it seems to be what works best for you and your setup but all in all a good thread for beginners to read and get started.


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## wolly

This is fantastic thanks for the advice.


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## Phishsaw

Thanks, guys! This is very helpful!
My tank is a week old and I've been misting a few times everyday because it dries out pretty quickly. My tank is an ExoTerra 18x18x24 with the screen top so lots of circulation. Then, I put in two glass panels on the top yesterday and this morning it was still humid ~90%. I have a fan, but have not been using it, but I guess I'm going to have to start now.

Question: With the addition of the glass panels the tanks stay pretty humid, if I run the fan periodically and I have a fogger, do I still need to mist? Can the fogger replace misting?
Thanks.


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## DunderBear

Oops putting those glass pieces should help a lot.


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## chillplants

I mist my tank once in the morning for the orchids and use the fogger to maintain humidity throughout the day. If your tank can hold 90% humidity all day, you may not even need the fogger.


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## Phishsaw

I was wondering if one can get to a point where misting is no longer required if the tank maintains a high humidity from the fogger and the waterfall, pond or will we be required to mist to keep certain plants healthy such as orchids and terrestrial plants?
The reason I'm asking is because I wasn't going to install an automatic mister and continue to mist manually until things get established. I have a fogger on a timer and was hoping at some point to rely on it to keep everything healthy.

Has anyone tried this?

Thanks.




chillplants said:


> I mist my tank once in the morning for the orchids and use the fogger to maintain humidity throughout the day. If your tank can hold 90% humidity all day, you may not even need the fogger.


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## Pubfiction

I have seen tanks which operate only with a fogger no misting yes. 

Your setup is individual to you and you will need to play with it. Whatever you choose may eliminate some plants from surviving in your system. 

The best example is that I have some tanks which are essentially sealed. There is no ventilation other than small cracks around the sides of the top. They can go for a year without any misting and some plants and dart frogs seem to be fine in them. It is however to stagnant for many orchids.


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## Ed

Pubfiction said:


> The best example is that I have some tanks which are essentially sealed. There is no ventilation other than small cracks around the sides of the top. They can go for a year without any misting and some plants and dart frogs seem to be fine in them. It is however to stagnant for many orchids.


But the downside these tightly seen enclosures are that you need to keep the frogs and enclosures at temperatures that are not optimal for them or their offspring. This is where the recommendations to keep the cages under 75 F originated. 

Additionally these kinds of stagnant air conditions are also often implicated in the shorter lifespan of bromeliads. 

some comments 

Ed


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## sage1970

Great thread!! Thank you everyone for the information provided!!


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## dentex

Thanks for the precious info... Now I'm sure I was misting my tank too much...


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## jc_hammy

Glad I read this before getting my mister started, I would have watered the crap out of everything!


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## thrain

i'm pretty new to the dart frog hobby and just started a new tank (completely covered, only ventilation is the strip below the door and the seams around them on an exo terra tank). i started with daily mistings/sprayings of everything until my glass started to look like someone was taking a shower in the tank and just covered with condensation that would drip down the top and sides. i thought everything was supposed to look "wet" all the time. i recently bought a hygrometer and decided to space the spraying to once every 2-3 days because the hygrometer would constantly read 99% (i don't think it goes to 100) even after i leave the doors open for a few mins to watch my froglets. Am i just overly worried about keeping things wet? i also just wanted to help my newly planted plants take root and i assumed watering them would help with that... any recommendations on how to better get things going?


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## S2G

Old bump...

My opinion add a 2" wide vent on top. Nothing likes constant super high humidity except mold and bad stuff. Imo you basically have a totally sealed viv so I would keep my temps away from 80.

A fan over the vent would help as well. Can you spot spray the pants? Right now I would let everything dry out to safe level. Periodically check your rh with the hygrometer. Shoot for a rh in the range of 75-90. Once your plants and everything get acclimated then it should be stabilize. 

You'll get the hang of it. Most over mist at first. I mist roughly 3-4xweek right now with my fan running dang near constantly at med speed. In the winter I mist 1-3x weekly with my fan on spaced intervals. I don't saturate anything either just make it damp. I find if my rh is under 90 and I have good ventilation my frogs can handle higher temp swings with ease (I don't sweat 80F).

You'll have to figure out what works best with your climate wherever you live.


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## Encyclia

I don't like to completely cover my tank tops. I would have a strip of ventilation at the top, if you can. If it's glass, you can have a glass shop cut off a 3 or 4" strip, if you want. Then you can cover it with plastic wrap, as needed, if you get too much ventilation. You should worry about too-high humidity. You want it between 60 and 80%, not 100%. It's better for the frogs. You might want to consider an internal circulation fan, too, blowing at the front glass.

Mark


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## jarteta97

Keeping everything as sealed as possible is an older, phased out practice of the hobby. The ventilation that you are describing is way too small and ineffective. Having humidity consistently above 85-90% really is not the way to go. Dart frogs thermoregulate through evaporation, and having that high of humidity means that small spikes in temperature even might result in frog deaths because they cannot thermoregulate. Also, having a tank that wet and humid simply begs for bacteria and to grow, and people have had their frogs' legs literally melt off over night due to the moisture levels. 

I would also highly encourage you to install a 2-3" screen vent across the top of your tank. You really should be shooting for 70-80% humidity. I mist once a day, and I have an internal circulation fan. I like for some of the sphagnum moss on my background to dry out just a little bit before misting. It's ok to have some condensation on the front glass for a couple of hours after misting, but it certainly shouldn't be looking like a shower door. Don't mean to overkill it with all of the replies, but I feel that this should be stressed. I see too many people being told to completely close up their tank.


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## jgragg

> Am i just overly worried about keeping things wet?


You should worry. You're keeping things _too wet_.



> You'll have to figure out what works best with your climate wherever you live.


This is exactly right. That's why hard and fast rules about frequency, duration, or intensity of "precip" can't be provided. Really, the above quote is the ONLY hard and fast rule! Even within a herp room you will note microclimatic differences, depending e.g. on proximity to space heaters, HVAC vents, windows, floor or ceiling etc. Just observe closely and adjust as needed. The key is to understand what you are shooting for. Constant 99% humidity is not it!

cheers


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## Piper

I have my mistking set to mist for 1 minute every morning. It’s a 30 gal tank. Everything seems to be going fine.


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## Dannyonekanobie

Sweet thread everyone! it was just what I needed! I added 9 bromeliads and a bunch of spanish moss and my humidity has shot through the roof. Looks like it'll be once a day 3× a week after I get my system a bit dryer. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## tropfrog

Initially I planned to have two seasons in my tank with dryer cooler winter. The natural way to do it is to spray more in summer and less in the winter. Now with 1,5 years experience I know that I really need to do the opposite.

I live in Southern sweden where it gets quite cold (ie dry). My house is heated by fire wood. So the inside air is extremelly dry. The house is a little bit colder in the days, when I am at work. The temperature in the tank is controlled by a heat pad under the false bottom and one on the side facing the out wall. Theese are also contributing to dry up things. So in the winter time the tank dries up extremely fast. 3 hour after spray it is bone dry and needs spray again. Even with this scedule the false bottom dries out and needs to fill up again. I am pushing air thrue the tank by fan when the humidity raise over 80%, but still it is down at 45-50% before next spray. I reccon I am at the sweet spot for a dry season with this scedule.

In the summer when the humidity in the house is higher, I just need to mist one time in the morning to maintain 90% to 70% during the day. The fan is runnig quite often to push the humidity down. And I need to drain the false bottom once in a while.

So that is how big impact your house climate can impact the need for spraying. That is why experience under your conditions is more important than general advises you can find here and there.

BR
Magnus


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## Encyclia

tropfrog said:


> Initially I planned to have two seasons in my tank with dryer cooler winter. The natural way to do it is to spray more in summer and less in the winter. Now with 1,5 years experience I know that I really need to do the opposite.
> 
> I live in Southern sweden where it gets quite cold (ie dry). My house is heated by fire wood. So the inside air is extremelly dry. The house is a little bit colder in the days, when I am at work. The temperature in the tank is controlled by a heat pad under the false bottom and one on the side facing the out wall. Theese are also contributing to dry up things. So in the winter time the tank dries up extremely fast. 3 hour after spray it is bone dry and needs spray again. Even with this scedule the false bottom dries out and needs to fill up again. I am pushing air thrue the tank by fan when the humidity raise over 80%, but still it is down at 45-50% before next spray. I reccon I am at the sweet spot for a dry season with this scedule.
> 
> In the summer when the humidity in the house is higher, I just need to mist one time in the morning to maintain 90% to 70% during the day. The fan is runnig quite often to push the humidity down. And I need to drain the false bottom once in a while.
> 
> So that is how big impact your house climate can impact the need for spraying. That is why experience under your conditions is more important than general advises you can find here and there.
> 
> BR
> Magnus


Are you able to control when the frogs breed with this setup? My frogs rest in the winter because I reduce the amount of misting in the winter. I usually control the humidity by covering some vents so it stays more humid with a lesser frequency of misting. Do you have any trouble with the frogs breeding year-round?

Mark


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## tropfrog

Encyclia said:


> Are you able to control when the frogs breed with this setup? My frogs rest in the winter because I reduce the amount of misting in the winter. I usually control the humidity by covering some vents so it stays more humid with a lesser frequency of misting. Do you have any trouble with the frogs breeding year-round?
> 
> Mark


Thanks for your input.

My frogs are not yet old enough to breed. I am not sure if they are triggered by Rain, temperature or increasing temperatures.....or a combination. Maybe next year i will find out?

I have had a plan to cover the upper ventilation to reduce the passive ventilation and therby increasing the active ventilation. But I havent put the plan to action yet. I want to evaluate one change at the time.

Last time i had frogs it was in a room full of aquariums and quite stable temperatures. It was much easier. Not much more than watering the plants.

Br
Magnus


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## Encyclia

tropfrog said:


> Thanks for your input.
> 
> My frogs are not yet old enough to breed. I am not sure if they are triggered by Rain, temperature or increasing temperatures.....or a combination. Maybe next year i will find out?
> 
> I have had a plan to cover the upper ventilation to reduce the passive ventilation and therby increasing the active ventilation. But I havent put the plan to action yet. I want to evaluate one change at the time.
> 
> Last time i had frogs it was in a room full of aquariums and quite stable temperatures. It was much easier. Not much more than watering the plants.
> 
> Br
> Magnus


Yeah, I am sure you will get it figured out. The only issue is that the breeding triggers, at least for my frogs, seem to be increasing misting with warmer temperatures. If those things are separated in your system (warmer temps with drier conditions), they may get a little confused. I am guessing, though, that the warmer temperatures will end up winning out in the end and that you will end up having a breeding season in Spring/Summer, but there is no guarantee. I have friends whose breeding season is in winter because the furnace keeps their house the warmest during that time  The only real danger is that they start breeding and don't know when to stop. That can lead to deficiencies in nutrients.

Mark


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## Dannyonekanobie

tropfrog said:


> Initially I planned to have two seasons in my tank with dryer cooler winter. The natural way to do it is to spray more in summer and less in the winter. Now with 1,5 years experience I know that I really need to do the opposite.
> 
> I live in Southern sweden where it gets quite cold (ie dry). My house is heated by fire wood. So the inside air is extremelly dry. The house is a little bit colder in the days, when I am at work. The temperature in the tank is controlled by a heat pad under the false bottom and one on the side facing the out wall. Theese are also contributing to dry up things. So in the winter time the tank dries up extremely fast. 3 hour after spray it is bone dry and needs spray again. Even with this scedule the false bottom dries out and needs to fill up again. I am pushing air thrue the tank by fan when the humidity raise over 80%, but still it is down at 45-50% before next spray. I reccon I am at the sweet spot for a dry season with this scedule.
> 
> In the summer when the humidity in the house is higher, I just need to mist one time in the morning to maintain 90% to 70% during the day. The fan is runnig quite often to push the humidity down. And I need to drain the false bottom once in a while.
> 
> So that is how big impact your house climate can impact the need for spraying. That is why experience under your conditions is more important than general advises you can find here and there.
> 
> BR
> Magnus


Great info Magnus. It did rain on Thursday and humidity outside stayed around 60° all weekend so that was definitely a contributing factor. What type of fans do you currently use to draw the air out? I currently use a computer fan attached to my 2" bulkhead on the lower side of my system. I have been thinking of using the same fan I use for circulation which is a 4" fan. I have a paludarium so my humidity probably has a strong chance of swings so I ordered a humidity controller to hook up to my fan and possibly mister.









Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Dannyonekanobie

I guess that's another Question. Has anyone ran their misters on a humidity controller or would that be to risky? Also I imagine that you would only want a 10° swing +5°/-5° from your ideal number for the season

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## tropfrog

Dannyonekanobie said:


> Great info Magnus. It did rain on Thursday and humidity outside stayed around 60° all weekend so that was definitely a contributing factor. What type of fans do you currently use to draw the air out? I currently use a computer fan attached to my 2" bulkhead on the lower side of my system. I have been thinking of using the same fan I use for circulation which is a 4" fan. I have a paludarium so my humidity probably has a strong chance of swings so I ordered a humidity controller to hook up to my fan and possibly mister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I use a computer fan which pushes the air from the canopy abowe the tank. So it pushes air that is preheated and dry by the light fixture into the tank and out thrue the front ventilation. It is running om humidity controller.

I would not advice om running humidity controller mist system. The tank really need to dry up good inbetween misting cycles. And there is a big risk on flooding the tank on dry days.

Br
Magnus


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## ds51

I mist by hand twice a day
I go all over the terrarium with the spray 
and as I mist I see flies moving about 
this bring the pdf out and they start hunting the flies 
I know the pdf don't like being sprayed as they move out of the way 
but will come back out to get the flies when I stop spraying
so must of the spraying I do is for the plants and humidity


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## davecalk

Phishsaw said:


> Thanks, guys! This is very helpful!
> My tank is a week old and I've been misting a few times everyday because it dries out pretty quickly. My tank is an ExoTerra 18x18x24 with the screen top so lots of circulation. Then, I put in two glass panels on the top yesterday and this morning it was still humid ~90%. I have a fan, but have not been using it, but I guess I'm going to have to start now.
> 
> Question: With the addition of the glass panels the tanks stay pretty humid, if I run the fan periodically and I have a fogger, do I still need to mist? Can the fogger replace misting?
> Thanks.


Being only a week old, your tank is a just baby. It will take time to grow in / settle in. If you have a fogger, a mister is not essential. If you have both you are simulating rain with the misters, and cloudy fog with a fogger. 

As many have correctly said variables, variables, variables. 


Where you live and the season you are living through will impact how often you have to mist / fog. The types of heating / cooling systems that you have will affect how often to mist.

Living in the Texas or Arizona desert, you face arid / dry humidity which has to be addressed by fogging and misting. If you have to run air-conditioning that will also dry out the air. If you live along the coast and have high external humidity you have other issues.

If you live in cold climates your heating system may dry the air during the winter. This can often be seen in hardwood floors. During the winter the HVAC system drys out the floors and our tanks, and you may notice cracking and separation in the hardwood flooring due to this drying out of the air due to their heating system. Some folks have humidifiers as part of their heating systems in order to reintroduce moisture to the air. Misting our tanks does the same thing. When you turn off the heat during the summer the floors will reabsorb moisture and the flooring cracks will disappear. The amount of misting needed will change noticeably as well.

Running fans inside the tank will help dry out the plants while still maintaining higher levels of humidity within the tanks.

With regards to our frogs, something that has been hinted at but never really discussed is the frogs in their natural habitat often have annual rainy seasons which stimulate breeding. Drying out the tank over a period of time will help frogs get a rest from breeding. On the other hand sometimes dropping the humidity for a period of time, sometimes for a few months, and then increasing the misting / fogging while also increasing the amount of food in the tank will help stimulate the return of their natural rain cycle and which simulates the normal increase in rainforest insects which for our frogs can stimulate an increase in breeding.


The right levels of misting and fogging will help with tank husbandry both of frog food (spring tails and isopods and of our frogs themselves.

Variables, Variables. 

It's all about learning about our wonderful frogs and their life cycles.


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## PBM3000

Valuable info here for sure but what I _have_ learned is that one size does not fit all. I've a 55g converted aquarium, a MistKing with four nozzles and 10 seconds twice a day seems to be just about giving enough moisture without going over the top. There are definitely horizontal 'zones' in there; wet at the bottom to dry(ish) at the top. 

This however seems crazy advice for a beginner: 

From www.mistking.com/MistingChapter.pdf, written by MistKing and Joshs Frogs. 

• 45 second at 7 am to get the
Vivarium re-hydrated from the night
and to wake up the occupants with a
refreshing morning shower,

• 20 seconds at 9am, 11:30am,
2:30pm, 4pm to maintain the
humidity throughout the day.

• 1 minute 30 seconds at 5:30pm for a
little afternoon drenching.

• Then 40 seconds at 8:30PM right
before lights out to keep the
enclosure nice and moist for the
night. 

*Seriously?* 
.


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## DPfarr

If I had all my tanks drilled and able to recycle the water, I would likely have a similar misting schedule. I have a 45 sec one time in a week. Couldn’t imagine dealing with that schedule’s volume.


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## Socratic Monologue

PBM3000 said:


> From www.mistking.com/MistingChapter.pdf, written by MistKing and Joshs Frogs.
> 
> • 45 second at 7 am to get the
> Vivarium re-hydrated from the night
> and to wake up the occupants with a
> refreshing morning shower,
> 
> • 20 seconds at 9am, 11:30am,
> 2:30pm, 4pm to maintain the
> humidity throughout the day.
> 
> • 1 minute 30 seconds at 5:30pm for a
> little afternoon drenching.
> 
> • Then 40 seconds at 8:30PM right
> before lights out to keep the
> enclosure nice and moist for the
> night.
> 
> *Seriously?*
> .


Yeah, but the ventilation will dry out the viv. Oh, wait...

From Josh's Frogs (https://www.joshsfrogs.com/catalog/blog/2016/02/terrarium-and-vivarium-glass-top/):

"In regards to dart frogs, vents are not required on a vivarium to keep your frogs happy "

I'm beginning to discount any advice given by Josh's Frogs. I'm not being snarky; there are just some care tips they give that make me doubt most of what they say without further confirmation.


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## jgragg

> Originally Posted by PBM3000 View Post
> From www.mistking.com/MistingChapter.pdf, written by MistKing and Joshs Frogs.
> 
> • 45 second at 7 am to get the
> Vivarium re-hydrated from the night
> and to wake up the occupants with a
> refreshing morning shower,
> 
> • 20 seconds at 9am, 11:30am,
> 2:30pm, 4pm to maintain the
> humidity throughout the day.
> 
> • 1 minute 30 seconds at 5:30pm for a
> little afternoon drenching.
> 
> • Then 40 seconds at 8:30PM right
> before lights out to keep the
> enclosure nice and moist for the
> night.
> 
> Seriously?


Huh. All of those together would almost never work. Maybe if you lived in Phoenix, or Vegas, and kept your frogs in a screen chameleon cage. It would probably still be *way too much* misting.

Honestly, those look like 4 more-or-less credible options, depending on one's situation. Like, "try one of these for yourself, observe the results for a week, and then adjust to suit". Kind of like "Hey, do you want a beer, glass of wine, or a cocktail?" Don't answer "YES!" Pick one, or none of the above.

Yeah. Huh. Anyway - "_don't do what they say_". Just for example - I live in a very dry area and do 20 secs 2x/day on most of my vivs. Plus a little hand-misting and some hand-watering (pour, terrestrial plants) as needed, on most weekends. All my vivs have loads of passive ventilation. 20 secs 2x/day does me just fine.

Good luck!


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## Gamble

Bump


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## Kmc

Woe Mr Gamble. 

Misting is one of keepings greatest pleasures. Its right there up with watching your charges feeding, and seeing them in action and repose in the environment ones hands have made for them.
Blow off rate, surface complexity, shelter, fluid mechanics, observation, familiarity, intuition, and more. 

To be brief which requires some restraint ha, I would like to appreciatively respond that if, after a few minutes, in the rivulet aftermath of the mist event, your charges come out to forage, its a good sign you've got the right thing happening.

If the animals come out during the mist event, and clamber around, climb the glass, it could indicate there is not adequate shelter and or the force, volume, duration needs mitigated. Frogs are stimulated also not just to breed by rainfall but to survive by avoiding entrapment by cascading mud and moving water carry. If one is using automated mist its important to provide solid shelter.


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## fiyero109

I have a strictly plant only 36x36x18 Exo-Terra that I have on an aggressive misting schedule and plants are thriving. Just wanted to add this here in case anyone is looking to build a similar set up

Substrate: NEHERP's Vivarium substrate with a LECA false bottom
Lighting: 14 hour daylight cycle with LED strips and two 20W LED diodes up front and one 10W LED diode in the back
Fan: Small fan on the inside that helps redistribute humidity. Runs 24/7
Temperature: Ambient + a heating bulb on top controlled by a temp controller with a target of 75F during the day and 72 at night
Fogger: Controlled by a hygrometer, maintains RH 89-93% (turns on when it dips to 89, stops at 93)
Misters: Mistking system on a day/night cycle controller, 5 nozzles (2 on left and 2 on right side, 1 in the middle back hidden behind a vine to mist the background growing plants). I mist 20 seconds ever 1.5 hours during the day and 20 seconds every 3 hours 

Even with this aggressive misting schedule, the water evaporates from the leaves before the next misting and some moss even stays too dry. I empty the false bottom every 1.5-2 weeks.

Among the genera I grow:

Main bottom portion: Alocasia, Rhaphidophora, Nautilocalyx, Ludisia, Macodes, Monstera, Ardisia, Bucephalandra, Dioneae, Sonerila, Ficus, Solanum, Marcgravia
Walls and sides in foamed in pots with drainage: Brattonia, Philodendron, Nepenthes, Alocasia, Phalaenopsis



jgragg said:


> Huh. All of those together would almost never work. Maybe if you lived in Phoenix, or Vegas, and kept your frogs in a screen chameleon cage. It would probably still be *way too much* misting.


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## PBM3000

I have a 55g long tank (converted aquarium) with narrow vent strips, top rear, running for two years. That two years has been a shallow, but not insignificant learning curve. I started off with a heavy misting schedule totalling around 15 seconds per day for the first month or so. I then dialled it back to 3 seconds in the morning, 2 mid afternoon and 3 in the evening. This was still way too much but I was paranoid about things dying off (frogs drying out!).

My mistake was that I assumed incorrectly that if it looks damp (leaves, ground cover etc) it must be the right humidity... I've spent time in primary jungles so I should have known what they look, feel and smell like... no excuse for my error, tbh...

So, I'm just about to put my thumbs back in their re-vamped tank and, once it's "adequately hydrated" I _will_ be keeping this one *a lot* drier! My intention is to mist *once every 2-3 days* (MistKing) for only around *5 seconds*, watering individual plants by hand where and when necessary. I figure that although my darts survived the last iteration, they probably didn't enjoy the conditions too much as I hardly saw them beyond the first six months. I guess they were just hunkering down to avoid the probably 1000+% humidity.  Now that they're heading for drier times they may get more active.


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