# New to keeping dart frogs/vivaria



## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

Hey all. 

I'm new to the hobby and would like to keep poison dart frogs!


I'm totally new to EVERYTHING and don't know where to start. Links would be great!

I've compiled a list of things to get for my first build, tell me if anything needs changing. By the way, price is no concern, my old hobby was extreme computer gaming which costs me $10,000 so I can imagine this would be no where near that much. 

Exo Terra 18x18x24 Terrarium

Malaysian Driftwood 14-20"

2x Malaysian Driftwood 10-14"

2x Cork flats 8-10"

Cork flat Less than 8"

Cork flat 13-16"

Exo Terra Monsoon With 6 nozzles

5 Gallons of ABG substrate (I hear this is what to use)

2x NEHERP Terrarium Moss 12" X 12"

Leaf Litter - Standard Live Oak Gallon

3x 23w 1500 Lumen CFL

Lemon Button Fern 4" Pot

Rabbit's Foot Fern - 4" Pot

Hedera Helix - Green Ivy - 2.5" Pot

Neoregelia "Wee Willy"

2x Neoregelia 'Guinea'

Neoregelia 'Shamrock'

Neoregelia Fireball

Selaginella Kraussiana "Spike Moss" 4" pot

2x Creeping Fig Variegated 5 Clippings

Dischidia ruscifolia

Philodendron scandens

Pothos Pot

Peperomia NOID Vine

Peperomia Japonica 3-4 clippings

Pilea 'Creeping Charlie'

Exo Terra Tree Fern Substrate (for background)

Zoo Med Forest Floor Bedding (for background)

Hydroton Clay Substrate 4 Gallon

Giant Grey isopod culture


I want a really lush build and I have not decided on which frog I want.


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

Here's a build I LOVE!

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me.../82043-24x18x24-standard-lamasi-vivarium.html


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## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

Just keep reading this site there are some good books out thereBook - Poison Dart Frogs is a good beginner book.


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Chirkk said:


> By the way, price is no concern, my old hobby was extreme computer gaming which costs me $10,000 so I can imagine this would be no where near that much.


I don't know about that. One guy just lost about $10,000-$12,000 worth of frogs.  http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/86010-frog-collection-tragedy.html  It's truly very sad. Just read the thread and replies. and you'll understand that you are now a part of a truly awesome community..

Edit: For an 18x18x24 exo, you could easily keep a small group of leucs in there, which is considered the best beginner frog ever. That's what I would do.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Chirkk said:


> By the way, price is no concern, my old hobby was extreme computer gaming which costs me $10,000 so I can imagine this would be no where near that much.
> 
> 3x 23w 1500 Lumen CFL
> 
> ...


Welcome to dart keeping, I hope you enjoy yourself. My first tip to you is research, research, research. 

You'd be surprised how much you could potentially spend on this hobby. Maybe you won't spend on $10,000 on this build....but what about the next 20? lol

I think for the size viv you have you probably have too much lighting. Even with broms 3, 23 watt CFL is a lot. You might have some heat issues. 

With an 18x18x24 you are limiting the species of frogs you can keep. Because you don't have a lot of floor space you are probably limited to a pair or possibly a trio of large frogs. Or you could go with a nice little group of thumbnails which would probably the better of the two options. 

Good luck.


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

Thanks for the replies! I heard luecs are good beginner frogs. What exactly is a thumbnail? lol

Will luecs utilize all of the vertical space or no?

I plan on putting the driftwood in a way so that it creates ledges to climb up onto little platforms. 

After a little bit of research I choose 2 13w LED bulbs, I heard they run a lot cooler and put out more light. Will those create to much heat?


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Chirkk said:


> Thanks for the replies! I heard luecs are good beginner frogs. What exactly is a thumbnail? lol
> 
> Will luecs utilize all of the vertical space or no?
> 
> ...


The twin 13w LED's will be awesome and no worries about excess heat. Leucs will make use of the vertical space to a greater or lesser extent. 

Thumbnails are smaller frogs, check out some of the Ranitomeya species. They are smaller frogs, aptly nicknamed thumbnails because that's about how big they are as adults. Every bit as pretty as the bigger frogs, just different.


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

I've made a few revisions to my cart, including dumping out the exo terra monsoon and getting the mistking system. I think I have too many plants, anyone care to confirm this?

3x Heart Fern 6-8" Tall

2x Lemon Button Fern 4" Pot 8-10" Tall

Rabbit's Foot Fern - 4" Pot 6-8" Tall

Hedera Helix - Green Ivy - 2.5" Pot 10" Long

Pilea 'Creeping Charlie' Overflowing 4" Pot

Pilea Moon Valley 4" Pot

5x Ficus Pumila "Creeping Fig" clippings

5x Dischidia ruscifolia Clippings

Peperomia NOID Vine 3" Pot

Peperomia Japonica 3-4 clippings

Peperomia Orba 3-4 Clippings

Peperomia Obtusifolia 2.5" Pot

Peperomia obtusifolia variegata

3x Neoregelia "Wee Willy"

Neoregelia 'Chiquita Linda'

Neoregelia Ampullacea

3x Neoregelia 'Guinea'

Neoregelia 'Shamrock'

Neoregelia 'Red Bird'

Cryptanthus 'Black Mystic'

10 pack of Neoregelia Offsets

10 pack of 2" Terrarium Plant Assortment


I want a *really* dense foliage layer in my tank


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I will personally say you have too many. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am. It is good to have a lot though that's for sure. I may have missed the background of your tank what kind are you using? If you do foam you can pop the bromeliads right in in a huge cluster. I would say that you have a good number of broms though. I have ~10 in my 55 not counting the few pups. I would honestly add a couple more to mine if I had more though. I think I counted 20+ though which may be a tad much. As for the rest you want a good amount but they do grow you can't forget that. I have ~10 plants in mine not counting broms. And it's got a good amount in there. I could use some more it's a 55 custom build. I would take a few out maybe 15 then some broms. Depending on how you do the background though maybe more if you put a bunch of cups on the back to add plants in.


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## oneshot (Mar 5, 2010)

yeah, way too many. 55 plants in a 33 gallon tank. don't forget, they need room to grow in and each need to receive enough light.


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

Ok, I will probably cut that list in half then 

Pacblu202- I will be doing a background of expanding foam, coco, cork bark, cork tubes, and black silicone. Just like this http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...2043-24x18x24-standard-lamasi-vivarium-4.html


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

Hey all. After looking at so many build threads and all this info on keeping dart frogs i've come to a standoff. 

I really like the simplicity of keeping one species to start, but was thinking that instead of an 18x18x24 exo terra build, that I have an option to do 3 20H vertical builds. I haven't come to any conclusion, and would love to hear what you guys have to say about it. If I go that route, I plan to purchase 3 of each, Ranitomeya lamasi, Ranitomeya imitator, and Ranitomeya variabilis, to go in seperate tanks respectively, of course. 

Please leave feedback if i'm going over my head, but please note I have a lot of free time and can dish out the dough to afford getting tons of supplies if needed.

Thanks!


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Chirkk said:


> I really like the simplicity of keeping one species to start, but was thinking that instead of an 18x18x24 exo terra build, that I have an option to do 3 20H vertical builds


It has begun............


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

That sounds do-able, I got 6 free 29 gallon tanks that I'm now making tanks out of. 4 long and 2 verts. That and the 55 I built are going to house my 22 frogs that I've gotten in the past few weeks. As long as you have a stable financial situation to work with and are comfortable with it and have done research then I would say go for it. Start looking for frogs and get your fruit fly cultures going now! Once your good on that you can get some frogs and but quarantine tubs. I found $8 tanks at Walmart that are 64 qts. They are about 10'' tall, 3 feet long, and 20'' wide. They seemed the best fitting with lids. I put a layer of sphagnum moss on the bottom and have all my frogs in those until the tanks are done. This way I can have them all safely housed and monitor them for quarantine. For thumbs though you can probably get something a bit smaller. I have my 2 variabilis in a 24 qt. one that's taller. About 14''x12''x12 roughly at Walmart also for $6. They are made by plastic clear, or clear tub or
Something like tht. They have a lip all the way around the lid that none of the rest have which really is nice. A bit of tape on the sides not closed and nothing's getting out.


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

mordoria said:


> It has begun............


xD I guess everyone takes that risk jumping into such an amazing hobby...




Pacblu202 said:


> That sounds do-able, I got 6 free 29 gallon tanks that I'm now making tanks out of. 4 long and 2 verts. That and the 55 I built are going to house my 22 frogs that I've gotten in the past few weeks. As long as you have a stable financial situation to work with and are comfortable with it and have done research then I would say go for it. Start looking for frogs and get your fruit fly cultures going now! Once your good on that you can get some frogs and but quarantine tubs. I found $8 tanks at Walmart that are 64 qts. They are about 10'' tall, 3 feet long, and 20'' wide. They seemed the best fitting with lids. I put a layer of sphagnum moss on the bottom and have all my frogs in those until the tanks are done. This way I can have them all safely housed and monitor them for quarantine. For thumbs though you can probably get something a bit smaller. I have my 2 variabilis in a 24 qt. one that's taller. About 14''x12''x12 roughly at Walmart also for $6. They are made by plastic clear, or clear tub or
> Something like tht. They have a lip all the way around the lid that none of the rest have which really is nice. A bit of tape on the sides not closed and nothing's getting out.



I read about those tubs being great housing for froglets and general temporary housing. Would I need to quarantine a frog if I buy it from a reputable breeder (especially if I purchase all adults)?


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

I mean the final decision is yours. I personally think it would be fine but others swear by it. I'm 'quarantining' mine but that is mainly to do with the fact that I haven't got the main tanks up yet so it's more temp than anything. When you start getting more frogs though it's best to QT them. Someone recently lost 10-12,000 of frogs. Not sure if it was relate to QT but you can get the idea. It also has to do with if the frog does die in the tank you would have to strip it all done,foam, silicone, everything to get a good thorough cleaning. That's a big thing too. If you QT and it's fine after a few weeks then there's the less risk of having to tear apart tanks since QT tanks are as simple as can be.


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Pacblu202 said:


> Someone recently lost 10-12,000 of frogs. Not sure if it was relate to QT but you can get the idea.


I think he lost the frogs due to temps that were too hot. I'm pretty sure his AC exhaust hose broke loose and started feeding hot air into his frog room, heating it up to like 90-100 degrees.


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

frog dude said:


> I think he lost the frogs due to temps that were too hot. I'm pretty sure his AC exhaust hose broke loose and started feeding hot air into his frog room, heating it up to like 90-100 degrees.


Ahhh, well that'll do it. I thought it had to do with one getting sick then slowly taking more out every day. Might have been another person.


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

Wait hang on was is 10000-12000 FROGS or 10000-12000$ WORTH of frogs?


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Chirkk said:


> Wait hang on was is 10000-12000 FROGS or 10000-12000$ WORTH of frogs?


$10,000-$12,000 worth of frogs. Frogs can get quite expensive. I have one tank with over $1,000 worth of frogs in it. It started out a pair, then it became a trio, and now it is about to have 4, priced at $275 a frog (not including shipping) 

So, look out...it can get very expensive


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## Chirkk (Aug 12, 2012)

jeeperrs said:


> $10,000-$12,000 worth of frogs. Frogs can get quite expensive. I have one tank with over $1,000 worth of frogs in it. It started out a pair, then it became a trio, and now it is about to have 4, priced at $275 a frog (not including shipping)
> 
> So, look out...it can get very expensive


Yeah i'm calculating costs right now, 6-9 frogs for 3 20H's will run me about 700$ if I go with adults lol...


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Chirkk said:


> Yeah i'm calculating costs right now, 6-9 frogs for 3 20H's will run me about 700$ if I go with adults lol...


Not necessarily. If you find people that are selling them in your area you can get a good deal. I have 22 frogs and for all combined I've spent $755. This consists of 1 proven pair of adult leucs, 1 probable pair of 9-10 month old variabilis, 1 probable pair of 10-12 month old turqoiuse and bronze auratus, 4 fine spot leuc froglets 2-4 months, 5 cobalts 4-6 months, and 6 vittatus 3-4 months. It works out better of you can get more from the same people as they will almost likely give you a better price in quantity. You just have to look in the classifieds for deals


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