# Pitcher Plant Eating a frog ???



## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

I'm going to cross post this. Some of you may have seen this already, but not here.

I have witnessed something pretty bizarre. I always considered miniature pitchers to be safe for vivs and large pitchers probably too as darts would seem to be able to climb out of them. The other day I found a leuc that was eating fallen fruit flies out of a pitcher plant. Little guy got a bit greedy. 

He could barely squeeze into the pitcher and I wonder if it would have spelled his end or if he'd manage to get out of it. He was sort of stuck, but if the hips would have gone in, the pitcher would have been so cramped that I doubt he'd be able to turn around and get out.

IT happened at the right time too, so I grabbed the camera and took a few frames of what went down in a sequence. He lived to see another day!


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

I don't think I've ever witnessed anything like that before and although it could have been bad news bears for the frog, it's kinda funny at the same time. I'm glad you were there to retrieve his greedy butt from the pitcher! 

I'm kinda in the same boat as you though. I never would have figured that miniature pitchers could present such a problem when it came to frogs trying to fish flies out of them. 

I guess you can always tell if a frog got devoured by a pitcher plant! Look for an explosion of growth from an excess of nutrients!......god forbid it ever happens though......

-Matt


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Darwinism Marty....survival of the 'smartest' ...and peril to those leucs lacking common sense 

Great pics!


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Wow unbelievable. Thanks for posting this!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Wow.... That's crazy!


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

well I guess that answers that question for alot of people that I have seen ask it in the past. Yes, it is a very possible danger.

very nice shots,


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Those are some great shots! What a random chance that you happened to see it happen!


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

Wow, that frog would have been a steak compared to the random bugs that pitcher plant was accustomed to! Amazing shots!


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

sports_doc said:


> Darwinism Marty....survival of the 'smartest' ...and peril to those leucs lacking common sense
> 
> Great pics!


It's a fine line though.... if the frog is able to get out...he becomes the smartest leuc for cornering the fruit fly supply in the tank ;-) if he falls in, dies and gets digested, he's a greedy dumb ass. 

I think he's closer to being a greedy dumb ass as the tank was full of flies crawling all over the place. I had blooming cultures and everyone was in the process of being overfed  Perhaps he needed a little challenge? Master Card Ad would say ...


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Great shots, Marty.

I think one way you could avoid the leucomelas getting into the Nepenthes pitchers would be to fill the pitchers with water. Then there wouldn't be any ffs in there to temp the leucomelas in.

Take care, Richard.


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

It's survival of the fittest in my tanks  I personally think this guy has been doing this for a long time. I should have resisted the impulse and let him sit there for 5-10 min and see if he could get out.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You could put little non-ff safe screens over the openings


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There are reports in the literature of frog skeletons being found in nepenthes pitchers... maybe that is one of the ways they get there.. 

Ed


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## Bokfan1 (Oct 17, 2010)

nice pics! black jungle says that they have had auratus lay clutch after clutch in their pitcher plants with no problems.


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## M_Rybecky (Mar 16, 2009)

I'm glad you were able to save him!!! But WOW that is pretty funny! I love the picture sequence!!


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

I think this sums it up. I don't think it's a subjective issue based on the outcome alone...the frog is greedy just like Augustus Gloop


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Ed said:


> There are reports in the literature of frog skeletons being found in nepenthes pitchers... maybe that is one of the ways they get there..
> 
> Ed


I think Barry Rices page mentions something in relation to frogs and Nepenthes, in particular Nep Rajah


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm not surprised. I saw a video of a mouse falling into a nepenthes, and a follow-up video of its rotten corpse


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh man, those photos gave me a chuckle. He looks like a kid being dragged out of a candy store. Reminds me of Winnie the Pooh.


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## ryan10517 (Oct 23, 2010)

ahahahaha that was a good laugh right there. What a fatty lol


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

wow ! a friend has pitchers and I thought about adding one to one of my vivs but I'm going to have to rethink that after seeing those pics  hats off to you for these photos.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Actually I saw a few pictures once of a PDF, chilling in the opening of a nepenthes. I was told that they hang out and eat the flies that come by. I have 2 decent size Neps and it takes them a very long time to digest anything. If i drop a housefly into a pitcher, it takes months to break down.
I think that the video of the dead mouse is exaggerated. If something was STUCK inside, it would drown. THEN the nep would try and break it down. The juices are not that strong. Ive gotten the pitcher juice all over me before and it did nothing. No irritation, rashes, burning. Also, the pitchers are not that strong so a fighting mouse would easily rip through the sides. I have found that mice like to die in hidden places. I've found them in the strangest of places, dead, at my cabin. 
So, my only fear would be that my PDF would get trapped inside. If he dipped in for a minute or two then hopped out, he should be alright. 

Ill try to find the pictures of the neps and PDF.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

cool article Short Sharp Science: Pea-sized amphibian is top of the frogs
These are not the image i was looking for but they are the same idea.
I dont know. I guess safer is better. I know I wouldent want to lose a frog.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mordoria said:


> Actually I saw a few pictures once of a PDF, chilling in the opening of a nepenthes. I was told that they hang out and eat the flies that come by. I have 2 decent size Neps and it takes them a very long time to digest anything. If i drop a housefly into a pitcher, it takes months to break down.
> I think that the video of the dead mouse is exaggerated. If something was STUCK inside, it would drown. THEN the nep would try and break it down. The juices are not that strong. Ive gotten the pitcher juice all over me before and it did nothing. No irritation, rashes, burning. Also, the pitchers are not that strong so a fighting mouse would easily rip through the sides. I have found that mice like to die in hidden places. I've found them in the strangest of places, dead, at my cabin.
> So, my only fear would be that my PDF would get trapped inside. If he dipped in for a minute or two then hopped out, he should be alright.
> 
> Ill try to find the pictures of the neps and PDF.


You really can't compare digestive rates of Nepenthes in cultivation with that of Nepenthes in the wild. The reason is that while the digestive fluids themselves may not be that strong (and mainly secreted in young pitchers), this ignores the whole communities of native invertebrates that aid in decomposition... Capture of vertebrates has been reported in a number of Asian nepenthes. This is a species that doesn't tend to trap frogs but does trap lizards http://faculty.frostburg.edu/biol/hli/research/Nepenthes.pdf 
We have to be careful about extending the adaptation of some frogs to using the traps to all frogs. (see for example http://faculty.ncf.edu/mccord/pdf/HebertLauraPitcherplant.pdf). Rodents are also reported..
Treefrogs are also reported using Sarracenia as refuge and possible hunting spots and are also captured (see for example http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~wqin/Rosa Pitcher Plants.pdf ). 

Some comments,

Ed


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

so then the liquid, or digestive fluid, would not do any harm to the frog if it 
ended up with some on it and then left the plant? I was wondering this the other day after marty posted just didn't ask.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

Ed said:


> You really can't compare digestive rates of Nepenthes in cultivation with that of Nepenthes in the wild. The reason is that while the digestive fluids themselves may not be that strong (and mainly secreted in young pitchers), this ignores the whole communities of native invertebrates that aid in decomposition... Capture of vertebrates has been reported in a number of Asian nepenthes. This is a species that doesn't tend to trap frogs but does trap lizards http://faculty.frostburg.edu/biol/hli/research/Nepenthes.pdf
> We have to be careful about extending the adaptation of some frogs to using the traps to all frogs. (see for example http://faculty.ncf.edu/mccord/pdf/HebertLauraPitcherplant.pdf). Rodents are also reported..
> Treefrogs are also reported using Sarracenia as refuge and possible hunting spots and are also captured (see for example http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~wqin/Rosa Pitcher Plants.pdf ).
> 
> ...


Great articles!


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## MountaineerLegion (Apr 8, 2008)

I don't think it was a coincidence that he took a dive while you were there with the camera...I think he had a running bet with his frog buddies that he could get you to "save" him. After you left to check out your shots he and his buddies kicked back, ate a few flies, and laughed at how gullible you were for the rest of the day. 

I agree with the others...fantastic shots! The "hand of god" reaching down from heaven to save the meek from certain death.


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