# Fake Tree



## Phxnoah (Sep 26, 2016)

I'd like to create a fake tree for the corner of my 18x18x24.

I've seen a few ways to do it, for example this awesome guide goes through it step by step http://www.dendrobatidae.org/Portals/0/activeforums_Attach/1424223459371.pdf

The only thing I'm a tad bit confused about is the painting. I do not want to silicone it and throw a bunch of coco fiber all over it, due to the fact that that's what my background will be composed of, and I don't want my tree looking like the background. Is there anything else I could "paint"/cover it with? I'm looking for non-toxic supplies that won't have an affect on the rest of the vivarium in a negative way.

And I've heard some rumors about Styrofoam being an endocrine damager (something like that). Does that have an immediate effect on my frogs/viv or is it something that's minimal and shouldn't be worried about.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Endocrine disrupter. Yes, styrofoam is a proven endocrine disrupter. It will not kill your frogs. It *may*, however, cause breeding problems, now, in the future, and even generations down the road.
It will not kill or otherwise harm your frogs.


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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

I would probably go with a cement/concrete based slurry as a surface and then use washes and dry brushing with acrylics. Both are to my knowledge safe. Concrete should be acid treated to get the pH down though.


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## Gibbs.JP (Feb 16, 2016)

Drylok is a great product that you can paint on as a waterproof covering. You don't have to wait for the pH to balance out either, which is nice. Once you cover it with a few coats, you can use non-toxic acrylic paints to make it look natural. I've done this with foam rocks and it's very easy, fairly quick, and looks great.


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

Gibbs.JP said:


> Drylok is a great product that you can paint on as a waterproof covering. You don't have to wait for the pH to balance out either, which is nice. Once you cover it with a few coats, you can use non-toxic acrylic paints to make it look natural. I've done this with foam rocks and it's very easy, fairly quick, and looks great.


I hear people mention drylok pretty often, but man is that stuff expensive. At least near me, it's $40 a gallon and nothing smaller sized. That costs more than most of the other parts of my builds haha. Is there something I'm missing here? Or is it really that pricey? 

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## Gibbs.JP (Feb 16, 2016)

$8 for a quart at Lowes. Home Depot only sells gallons for $40.


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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

I've been thinking about trying some acid staining on raw concrete. You can get pretty nice colors with nice variations in them in brownish red for instance.


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

Gibbs.JP said:


> $8 for a quart at Lowes. Home Depot only sells gallons for $40.


Ahah! I might just head there after work. I only need maybe a quart at a time so that's much friendly to my wallet  thanks! 

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## Phxnoah (Sep 26, 2016)

Gibbs.JP said:


> Drylok is a great product that you can paint on as a waterproof covering. You don't have to wait for the pH to balance out either, which is nice. Once you cover it with a few coats, you can use non-toxic acrylic paints to make it look natural. I've done this with foam rocks and it's very easy, fairly quick, and looks great.


Sounds great! Is this (https://www.lowes.com/pd/UGL-DRYLOK-32-fl-oz-Gray-Paintable-Latex-Specialty-Caulk/3073367) the one you were talking about? A quart seems like a relatively small amount, do you use this stuff up pretty quickly? 

I also wanted to mention that I didn't completely clarify in my original post, that the larger problem is finding something to cover the GS foam with, after carving it. Someone mentioned concrete, however I'm a complete newbie to this whole process so more detail would really be appreciated . My fear is that all of these products will result in damaging the plant/animal life of the viv.


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

Phxnoah said:


> Sounds great! Is this (https://www.lowes.com/pd/UGL-DRYLOK-32-fl-oz-Gray-Paintable-Latex-Specialty-Caulk/3073367) the one you were talking about? A quart seems like a relatively small amount, do you use this stuff up pretty quickly?
> 
> I also wanted to mention that I didn't completely clarify in my original post, that the larger problem is finding something to cover the GS foam with, after carving it. Someone mentioned concrete, however I'm a complete newbie to this whole process so more detail would really be appreciated . My fear is that all of these products will result in damaging the plant/animal life of the viv.


Check out LizardLandscapes (YouTube.com/user/LizardLandscapes) - he's got some great videos on making realistic backgrounds using morter/concrete/plaster. Now, a lot of his videos have "not animal safe" plastered all over it but truly, as long as you real it with something (drylok apprently, or non toxic acrylic sealers, or silicon) you should be fine  

Edit: to note, I think the guy just got overly paranoid about the safety of animals and just added a bunch of "not safe" signs despite the original videos being for pet safe backgrounds. The guys a really good background maker, but a bit ... Out there when it comes to his personal life. 

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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

No that's not it:

LATEX BASE DRYLOK® MASONRY WATERPROOFER - DRYLOK Masonry Waterproofer

Make sure its the original latex formula. 

They are making new kinds that have mold inhibitors that you def do not want. Extreme and clear for example.




Phxnoah said:


> Sounds great! Is this (https://www.lowes.com/pd/UGL-DRYLOK-32-fl-oz-Gray-Paintable-Latex-Specialty-Caulk/3073367) the one you were talking about? A quart seems like a relatively small amount, do you use this stuff up pretty quickly?
> 
> I also wanted to mention that I didn't completely clarify in my original post, that the larger problem is finding something to cover the GS foam with, after carving it. Someone mentioned concrete, however I'm a complete newbie to this whole process so more detail would really be appreciated . My fear is that all of these products will result in damaging the plant/animal life of the viv.


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## Nepenthe (Mar 3, 2017)

cam1941 said:


> No that's not it:
> 
> LATEX BASE DRYLOK® MASONRY WATERPROOFER - DRYLOK Masonry Waterproofer
> 
> ...


I almost made this mistake! Noticed a product that I used to use all the time now has added mold inhibitors.


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## Phxnoah (Sep 26, 2016)

cam1941 said:


> No that's not it:
> 
> LATEX BASE DRYLOK® MASONRY WATERPROOFER - DRYLOK Masonry Waterproofer
> 
> ...


Alright, Gibbs just mentioned the quart for $8 so I assumed that would be fine to use. Does this mean I should return my Silicone II also ;(. I realize it contains mold inhibitors, but I've read a large amount of testimonies from people that have used it without long/short-term damage. 

The Drylok that you mentioned is around $23 at Lowes. Sad to say, but I'm on a budget. Pretty much the downside of being a kid in high-school still partially living off of allowance.

So now that I know to use the drylok you showed me, non-toxic acrylic paint (most likely Satin Acrylic Paint by Craft Smart®, 2 oz.), some random styrofoam I'll pick up at Lowe's, and GS foam,... is there anything else?

I've done some research and some people aren't completely satisfied with the idea of acrylic paint inside a viv, especially when it's frequently being misted. Is there something I could top this all of with at the end? Some sort of water-protectant for the acrylic paint?

Let me know if I'm better going down a simpler route. This is a first time for me creating my own background, and actually planning something out instead of my first vivarium which was very rushed.


Thanks for being patient with me haha!


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Yeah you have to be careful and make sure before you use anything. I bought Drylok extreme and used it before I found out about the mold inhibitors. Had to shit can that first attempt. 

I wish someone would post a sticky that could be updated regularly that has a list of all of the safe versions of products that we use for vivs: Silicone, glues, epoxies etc. 



Nepenthe said:


> I almost made this mistake! Noticed a product that I used to use all the time now has added mold inhibitors.


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

cam1941 said:


> Yeah you have to be careful and make sure before you use anything. I bought Drylok extreme and used it before I found out about the mold inhibitors. Had to shit can that first attempt.
> 
> I wish someone would post a sticky that could be updated regularly that has a list of all of the safe versions of products that we use for vivs: Silicone, glues, epoxies etc.


Boy I'd love that, would really be a great help for a still relatively small hobby compared to, as I linked above, terrariums/vivariums for less tropical reptiles/amphibians that can get away with less water safe products. 

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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

No I believe he was saying that the Lowes he goes to sells a quart size can of Drylok. They do not sell it like that where I live. You have to buy the gallon. 

You should call your local hardware stores and ask them if they sell the quart size to make sure before you make a decision. It really is the perfect thing for these types of projects. You definitely don't want to mess with concrete as that is a huge pain in the ass because of that whole PH leeching crap.

If you can't get the Drylok in a size you can afford then I would suggest you move on to some type of grout. Again that list of safe products would come in handy now as I've never used grout and cannot recommend a safe version. Maybe someone can chime in who knows about a safe form of grout to use.





Phxnoah said:


> Alright, Gibbs just mentioned the quart for $8 so I assumed that would be fine to use. Does this mean I should return my Silicone II also ;(. I realize it contains mold inhibitors, but I've read a large amount of testimonies from people that have used it without long/short-term damage.
> 
> The Drylok that you mentioned is around $23 at Lowes. Sad to say, but I'm on a budget. Pretty much the downside of being a kid in high-school still partially living off of allowance.
> 
> ...


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Yeah as a general rule I try to use products that are fish safe. It takes all the guess work out of it and there are definitely enough products already geared to fish safety so it just makes it easier. 



Grimsrude said:


> Boy I'd love that, would really be a great help for a still relatively small hobby compared to, as I linked above, terrariums/vivariums for less tropical reptiles/amphibians that can get away with less water safe products.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

cam1941 said:


> You definitely don't want to mess with concrete as that is a huge pain in the ass because of that whole PH leeching crap.



If you have the time, messing with the after treatment of concrete doesn't have to be a pain in the ass. If you are in a hurry to get it finished then yes I agree. 

My personal opinion is that most traditional paints with 100% coverage of a single color or pigment tend to look very unnatural. To get back to a natural look after a coat of say drylok takes a lot of work and some talent or at least practice. Look on YouTube for videos about weathering props and you can find good tutorials on the subject. But it takes a lot of dark washes in darker colors that are wiped off wet and then reapplied followed by dry brushing with lighter colors for the highlights. 

Of course even concrete needs some color if it is to mimic wood. But you can use pigments in the dry mix to get a start and followed by some watery washes in different hues afterwards and end up with a surface that has a lot more life and natural look than a pure latex/acrylic surface. 

My 2 cents! 😊


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Phxnoah said:


> Alright, Gibbs just mentioned the quart for $8 so I assumed that would be fine to use. Does this mean I should return my Silicone II also ;(.


Yes, you probably should :-( Look up threads on silicone on here. The organotins in GE Silicone II can cause long-term (multiple generation) breeding difficulties. That is true of quite a few kinds of silicone. Stick with something aquarium safe or that you know doesn't use an organotin-based curing agent.

Mark


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

Just for those curious this is at my local Lowe's. It's not listed online, was only available in store so check around for it.









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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Cool, you're lucky I have to buy the whole gallon where I live...

Now you guys are well on your way to producing hardscapes like this...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...67-joshsdragonz-frog-room-11.html#post2301713

That hardscape and fallen tree trunk were done with Drylok and carved sprayfoam.




Grimsrude said:


> Just for those curious this is at my local Lowe's. It's not listed online, was only available in store so check around for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Phxnoah (Sep 26, 2016)

Grimsrude said:


> Just for those curious this is at my local Lowe's. It's not listed online, was only available in store so check around for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome! And I was able to find it online, I'm so glad b/c it'll save me like $14!!! (https://www.lowes.com/pd/UGL-White-...iKV-U8XGjMlDfmy0iBFbslGWNraZR5YdwIaAg6C8P8HAQ).

Also, when you use drylok, do you mix it in with the acrylic paint? If you do, wouldn't it give everything a light color due to the [white] color of the drylok? 

And a quick non-related question for anyone that might see this, has anyone ever had problems with silicone / your background peeling off due to the heavy misting?


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## Grimsrude (Apr 6, 2017)

I've had some minor peeling - bit that happened more from not waiting for great stuff to cure long enough. Great stuff expands, then after like 2 weeks, shrinks a bit. It's quite annoying if you've sealed off corners/edges and silicone it up and suddenly you get big gaps on the edges. 

I've personally not had any issue though with it just from misting, but my setups aren't terribly old. 

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## Phxnoah (Sep 26, 2016)

I was able to get all of my supplies today so that I can start this soon . I'm a bit worried about the styrofoam being to crumbly, but I'll just have to wait and see what will happen after I'm done sanding it.

Here are a few pictures of my supplies excluding the GS foam.


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## AOA (Jan 19, 2017)

the pink poly foam is often easier to carve but that should work just fine. I have never used paint to color the dry lock......only concrete coloring. Save your paint for the first 2 coats and only use a base color on the third one. Then you will have good dry lock layers and only have to worry about making the variations and naturalistic look you want with the final paint job. Let it all dry and then dab your brush into the white dry lock, wipe off all excess onto a piece of cardboard until the brush seems empty. now "dry brush" the rock/wood lightly to give it that weathered look you see around here. it will turn out great I'm sure. keep us all posted. I got started in HS as well! Now I'm a HS biology teacher with tons of vivs lining my lab and classroom! good luck young buck

Oh and be careful not to stain your parents carpet!! they won't let you build any more vivs!!
JD


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## Lrams (Feb 2, 2017)

I would explain how I did it (https://www.facebook.com/marcospaludarium/), but the problem is that I am unsure about the correct English wording with regards to the materials used.

Bascally what I did was in short as follows:

- Create shapes with PVC pipes, styro foam and "great stuff"-foam
- Add a layer of tyle plaster (the one used for bathroom tyles but also marks as "suitable for outside use/weather influences")
- Paint with acrylic concrete paint (again marked as suitable for outside use).

Whilst painting, I followed the routine of starting with black, than a basic colour with added small amounts of coco-fiber and finally some highlights with a lighter colour.


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## steadyroller (May 17, 2015)

Thanks for that pdf it is really helpful.


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## Phxnoah (Sep 26, 2016)

I did some work yesterday on my false bottom and buttress tree. I'm not digging the look right now and am probably going to redo some of it.


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## Phxnoah (Sep 26, 2016)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me.../320138-root-stump-buttress-18x18x18-viv.html

Pretty much forgot about this thread, here's a new one where I've actually made some decent progress. Feel free to take a look at it.


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