# carbon in the substrate



## Guest (Aug 7, 2006)

has any one ever used aquarium carbon mixed into the substrate to help with drainage and also to absorbe any odors?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

At one point in time it was recommended regularly, it seems to have fallen to the wayside though. I use it from time to time, usually depends on how deep the soil is going to be though.


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## Max Power (Jul 22, 2006)

I wouldn't bother, the carbon would only be effective for about a week in a vivarium... its only effective for a day or two in an aquarium.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I'm gonna be using it in my future soil mixes. I'm not really concerned with the impurity removal abilities, more the drainage and inert property of it.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Nothing inert about carbon. I would not recommend it. Keep things simplistic and all problems will be avoidable.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

stchupa said:


> Nothing inert about carbon. I would not recommend it. Keep things simplistic and all problems will be avoidable.


What the heck are you talking about? Carbon is in almost every Orchid mix I've ever seen.

Why would you not recommend this?

Edit: Inert wasn't the word I meant to put there. :?


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## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

In two of my vivs I have streams and under the river rock in the stream I put aquarium filters that are filled with charcoal. I clean and replace these every 2 weeks. I don't know if it does a whole lot of good, but it doesn't hurt.
I also have spots in my vivs where water seemes to collect in pools which was making it too wet for the plants so I put in chunks of charcoal to provide better drainage.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

I didn't mean for orchids that would be fine and likely benificial for it as it is a source of carbon and other minerals/micronut.

I thought you were talking for vivarium applications with frogs in it.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

I take you didn't catch the topic of carbon filters being a contributable culprit to spindley? I just read about it today. But I've heard things ever since when. Jack Daniels would fit nicely into this coversation.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

In one instance carbon was linked to SLS... 

The use of carbon in substrates is very old school terrarium construction and of limited value in any case. Bacteria rapidly colonizes the carbon and inhibits its ability to absorb anything in addition the lack of circulation prevents many things from contacting the carbon. 
You would be better off having a substrate that drains well. 

Ed


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Ed said:


> In one instance carbon was linked to SLS...


Like I've said over and over nothing can be contributed directly to a single implacted issue. As for that instance, that happened to be one noted, and to go on further to jeopardize more than needed didn't seem neccessary as they felt it had been proved, at least to them. It's up others to take it with a grain of salt and still make use.



> The use of carbon in substrates is very old school terrarium construction and of limited value in any case. Bacteria rapidly colonizes the carbon and inhibits its ability to absorb anything in addition the lack of circulation prevents many things from contacting the carbon.
> You would be better off having a substrate that drains well.
> 
> Ed


If we were to look at cures for cancer and say out of a thousand cases all being seperable by the treatment, and of those, *ONLY* 700 were successful to some extent, but no diffinitive proof can (will) be attributed to that one instance because (at the time) they were lacking consideration for the enviroment and so on.

You know, people really need to start thinking for themselves, not fear questioning to things and perquisite that which you are told to your own questioning.

The idea is to find one solution. You're told otherwise and don't wonder, and if you do, you won't question.[/b]

Obviously they had a control through the analysis for comparison.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2006)

Ok so what problems arise from using carbon is a susbtrate mix?


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## Max Power (Jul 22, 2006)

nawth21 said:


> Ok so what problems arise from using carbon is a susbtrate mix?


better question... how does it help


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2006)

Max Power said:


> nawth21 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so what problems arise from using carbon is a susbtrate mix?
> ...


Its just in the bag that I wanted the other goodies for.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2006)

Use it.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Its good for drainage. Bacteria colonize EVERYTHING in a viv. Having them grow on carbon isn't a big deal. I think over time, all mixes will get clogged up eventually. I guess you could put in some red wigglers (redworms) but then you gotta worry about egg eating...

I will be using it in my potting mix and for a couple of vivs which will be for experimentation. I have no more frogs at this time, so all my vivs are for display and experimentation.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

ya, the really good coco peat i use in my substrate mix has carbon in it and i havent seen any problems. as for using carbon as a layer in the substrate, i wouldnt just because i havent. there is no need if you use a good substrate. use med and large orchid bark to get good drainage along with coco peat, spag moss, treefern root(fine) and you should be good for a couple years. i have 6-7 year old 10gal tanks that still raise froglets and drain fine. some people use a layer of mesh between their gravel/clay balls but the mesh will clog and create worse drainage than just placing it over the drainage layer. i only use mesh over false bottoms to keep from falling thru. 
pertaining to sls and carbon, read the article. i just asked a bunch of questions about the carbon thing and i THINK it may have been something in the cities municipal water that wasnt filtered by the carbon that caused sls. the use of carbon pre-filters was LINKED to sls because i use carbon filters in my house prefilter and my tad system filter and get no sls. i have well water w/ no city additives(chlorine, chloramine, flouride, etc) this had nothing to do with aquarium filters and carbon.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

frogfarm said:


> i use carbon filters in my house prefilter and my tad system filter and get no sls. i have well water w/ no city additives(chlorine, chloramine, flouride, etc) this had nothing to do with aquarium filters and carbon.


I agree. I use an activated carbon prefilter in my home, and have not had SLS, even after changing the filter cartridge.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

hi homer,
do you have well water or do you use it to take out the chlorine from a municipal water supply?


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

frogfarm said:


> hi homer,
> do you have well water or do you use it to take out the chlorine from a municipal water supply?


Hey, Aaron! Like you, I have well water, and I hope that it helps take out long chain hydrocarbons that might have leached into the water table. In reality, I only replace the carbon filters when I replace my RO membrane . . . usually because I can get a new membrane with a replacement pack for the rest of the filtration stages for about the same price as I can get the membrane alone--if I watch long enough.

Regardless, I have replaced the carbon filter on my RO unit twice in the last 5 years, and have not noticed any changes in spindly or morphing . . . actually have never had SLS as of yet, knock on wood.


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## wuness (Apr 4, 2006)

One other note on this issue. As far as I know, essentially all the carbon that a plant uses is absorbed as carbon dioxide gas, through the leaves, directly from the atmosphere.

wuness


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you already have the carbon on hand you can use it as part of the substrate mix. Yes bacteria colonizes everything but if you are adding carbon to a substrate with the idea that it will keep the substrate "sweet" smelling then you will be surprised in not a nice way. 
I would not buy it for this use as it doesn't make any sense as you can use many other less expensive inert additions that will end up accomplishing the same thing. It is added to some very open media as part of the substrate but as these are open and well drained you don't get the massive bacterial overgrowth (which causes a slime coat to over the carbon preventing it from working). 

Ed


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

I have used it in my substrates and potting mixes for epiphytic plants (and even for terrestrial plants). Several orchid growers have noted better growth when using the hort. charcoal, and that is one of the reasons I have used it in my substrates. 

However, my substrates are almost entirely coarse coco husk chips (well rinsed) and horticultural charcoal. I can't swear that it makes a huge difference, but some professional Paph growers use it and swear that it makes a difference. I guess that is good enough for me. I have never had a slime coat accumulate on my charcoal, though.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2006)

I use it for plants as well - in a couple of small plant-only terrariums as well as some plants I've grown in glass and glazed ceramic pots that don't drain, and it works fine for me (not a loose orchid bark mixture like Homer's - I'm talking about soilless mixes and regular ol' potting soil). I have actually noticed that the times I've used it, the soil hasn't gone rotten and started to smell - when I didn't use it, I had problems.


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