# Little work as Possible Tadpole Rearing?



## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

How do people rear their tadpoles? I have found out quickly that one or two pair of frogs can produce an enormous number of tadpoles, very quickly.

I recently received as a gift from Tincs.com, a pair of ventrimaculatus. They have bred four times already, and I have over thrity good eggs. I have seen John's website, but that setup is not practical for me.

What do those with really large collections do with large numbers of tadpoles?

Please let's not let the subject tangent off to "well, if you are not willing to do the work..." I am a firm believer in "Necessity is the mother of invention", and so am looking for help in brainstorming ideas; I want to invent something that cleans and circulates the water, maybe an auto feeder, and maybe a heating system for the water to stay at a certain temp?

Mark


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## bradadams (Jun 3, 2004)

I had the same problem when I first got into darts. I purchased them because they were beautiful and a challenge to reproduce. Well I got the knack down for reproducing them, I had over a hundred tadpoles but because it took so much time to raise the tadpoles it was hard to enjoy the hobby. I sold off all my frogs and just started getting back into keeping darts over the last few years. I've decided not to focus on breeding and just try and enjoy these gems.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Well, I've heard of people that do no water changes at all. They even claim they have better luck that way.
I'm pretty fond of having bright light on my tad tubs. I use 64oz. tub shaped containers, with an airstone and a good handfull of java moss in each one. I raise one clutch (up to six tads) of auratus in each one. I have a compact flourescent about 8 inches over the top of the tad shelf. With bright enough lighting, I would almost bet you could get away with not even feeding, with all the algae that grows in there, I haven't, and probably won't try that though. I only change water if it gets cloudy or starts to stink, which only happens on rare occasions.
When the front legs emerge, I dump the whole container into a planted ten gallon tank which is tilted to give a deeper water area, while still allowing good drainage for the land area. This is where I need to do something different! I sold some froglets recently, and it took a long time to catch the little buggers hopping around in the leaf litter, moss and plants. 
Oh well, they probably like it that way!


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

We usually have around 300 or so tadpoles at any given time. We raise them all individually. Believe it or not, we can change all of them in about an hour or two. We modify the lid of our tadpole cups so that it has an open part and a strainer part. We use the strainer to drain the cup and the open area to add water and food. The lid cuts tadpole change time exponentially.

One thing to keep in mind is that vents are highly cannibalistic. Put multiple ones in a single container and more than likely you'll end up with one per container.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

I raise all of mine individually, feed Tetra Minitabs, and do no water changes. I use about 2 cups of water in each.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Is there a good website detailing the rearing of tadpoles? I mean with pics and all.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Perhaps we can get Mike Shrom to speak of his 'super system'. I know it would be explained much better by him than myself.
j


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

I raise all my tads in 8oz. deli cups, and it works well.I change water every week, but I have had good luck not changing the water at all, but they do come out slower.


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

Sinus infection, ear ache, 55 hour work week, tend frogs and salamanders. To tired. Flow through system, sponge filters, lots of water, lots of food, lots of tadpoles together.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

ROTFLMAO


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

LOL, now thats a classic post...


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## fishy332003 (Feb 15, 2004)

what is John's rearing tadpoles system?any web site?


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

I am very interested in Mikes setup - What does "flow through system" mean? Justin, if Mike is just too beat up from other stuff in life, and if Mike is okay with it, could you try and describe it?

Here is what I am trying to brainstorm. I saw a system in the second edition of the new dendrobatid books that hinted at something that was fully automated. With all due respect to Quality Captives, an hour or two is time I should be spenidng with my family. I work alot, and don't have that kindof time in the evenings.

I have seen automatic fish feeders, drippers on timers with overflows setup, and all that. Is there a way that anyone can think of to set up a system where the water is recycled, the food is automated (maybe a liquid food, comprised of things like earthworm and blood worm, and ground moistened fish flake...) and drop in trays that are able to flushed clean once a day on a timer, so they get their food again in the morning again or something like that.

I am interested to hear any good ideas, or even better, someone with intimate knowledge of that system pictured in the book.

Mark


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Mark No offense taken.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

I have a question about recirculating water. I read that some tadpoles secrete a chemical that stunts the growth of other tads. If you use an automated system that re-cirulates the water, aren't you cirulating that chemical to other tads? Is this even an issue? 

An automated system would be nice, but tads don't really need alot of fresh water do they? I mean in the wild, tads are put anywhere there is standing water right? I remember reading somewhere that one sucessful breeder only does one water change the whole time that the tads are in the water. Wouldn't that make an automated system pointless?


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

A while back I imported from Europe and tadpole rearing, I don't what you'd call it, but it would hold about 50 tadpoles hooked up to a water source and would drip (or spray) new water into each small container constantly (if I turned the water was on) and had an outlet hole in the back of each little box to empty excess water and each tadpole was individually contained. You could change the water for all 50 tadpoles in under 5 minutes. It was only a foot or so wide and about as high. It was expensive, in excess of $300 10 years ago, plus shipping but because of differences in European plumbing (and because it came in broken) it never worked as well as I'd like. I sold it off at one of the early Frog Days to someone I haven't heard from in many years. If someone is interested in producing something like this and is handy with their hands contact me privately and we can work together to get someout out (and hopefully at a better price). 

Best,

Chuck


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## devin mac (Oct 4, 2004)

i don't know if anyone has done something like this, but if you were to make a multi cup-holder, of sorts, that woud more or less be a sheet of plastic with x number of holes cut into it which are just big enough to slide deli cups through. slice the bottom off each cup and replace it with screening or mesh. you could then glue the rim of each cup to the hole cut in the plastic (otherwise they would float ;-) ). then just lay this apparatus over a tank or deep tray large enough to accomodate the height of the deli cups (maybe one of those under-bed sterilite boxes?). keep two of these containers for each tray of cups, so you can get the new ater all set in one of them, and then now all you need to do to change water is pick up the tray of cups, and put it into the other container.

someone is probably doing something similar to this, but that's how i'd do it.


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## Jace King (May 5, 2004)

This method is not tried and true, but i just came up with it. I have about a dozen of these 2.5 gallon Ice mountain jugs. The kind with the built in spout or whatever. I cut the tops off and put mesh over the hole. Then in most i cover the bottom in gravel. Some there is no gravel. I have been putting groups of 2, 3, and 4 galacs in these. When i want to chage the water i just pull the plug and put in fresh water. So far so good. but its only been about a week and a half.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

This is a very interesting subject that I have given some thought on before this post. If you are considering a mutli tad tank this would be a simple answer. I was thinking along the lines of having a 10 gal or possibly a 20 gal aquiriuam filled up with your tadpool tea leaves and other stuff you would want to put in there. You could have an under the gravel filter and or an over the side filter. Then all you you have to do would be add food and minerals as needed. It would be set up just like a fresh water fish tank and think it would be the easiest way to raise multi tads. The only problem with this type of set-up is you would have to remove the teds to a differnt tank when ready to morph.

Mike P.


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## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

I just remembered a contraption used to display bettas at the store where I worked. It is a commercial display with I think 15- 20 individual cups, but it had a central pump and water would be constantly trickling into the cups, giving constant filtration. It even had a light. I have no idea who made it though. Alot of pet store have cubicals for fish that can be centrally filtered and could be adapted for tadpoles possible.


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

The difference between a community tank with individual containers and the one I describe is that in the one I describe each tadpole is in a separate container and the waters don't intermix. There was (is?) some thought that tadpoles can produce somes sort of grow inhibator in the communial water supply. The method of a community tank as been used for 15 years (at least), but it hasn't caught on. I figured if it worked well then it would have spread more - which isn't the case.

Best,

Chuck


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

The difference between a community tank with individual containers and the one I describe is that in the one I describe each tadpole is in a separate container and the waters don't intermix. There was (is?) some thought that tadpoles can produce somes sort of grow inhibator in the communial water supply. The method of a community tank as been used for 15 years (at least), but it hasn't caught on. I figured if it worked well then it would have spread more - which isn't the case.

Best,

Chuck


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2004)

*?*

But if it didnt work, wouldnt everyone know? In other words, if the community tank idea wasnt any good, wouldnt everyone be using the single cup method? 


By NO means am I suggesting that I know what I'm talking about!!! I only see a difference in opinion and it seems (from their websites!) that people are having success both ways. 

It seems much easier to control temperature and several other factors in a larger communal tank, but I dont know about bacteria or fungus or anything that could become a problem in a larger tank. Is that a likelyhood? It seems much easier and more stable (temp and water quality) to raise communally in, say, a 10 gallon or 20 gallon high with a weak power filter on the back with a sponge over the intake. Then use some good lights on top and grow your own algae. You'd just have to catch them when they started to sprout legs (fishnet?). BUT, if I read into the rest of these posts, noboby would really mind setting up a second tank to morph the frogs. 

That seems the easiest and most stable way to me. But again, I know of nothing other than what I've read, but I'm a little confused by all the different methods. 

Please chime in and tell me what y'all think! This is interesting! Plus, I need to figure out how I'm going to do this before some eggs hatch!!!   

thanks again for all your input!


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*In Dendrobatidae*

Sigfried Christman book Dendrobatidae Vol II has a similar set up to the one everyone is describing. He has a tiered system (I'm not sure why) but check it out for those of you who have it. It is quite brilliant. Individual cells that allow water to flow through. The cells are contained like an ice cube tray only porous for water flow.

I have seen a clever system that used PVC couplings with screen on the bottom. He housed his tads in their own PVC coupling cell and had those sitting in another rubber maid shoebox container filled with water. When it was time to do water changes, one simply lifted the coupling out and placed it into a new rubbermaid shoebox with fresh water. I have not tried this but I found it to be quite a good idea.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2004)

*shoebox?*

If they were all in pvc containers sharing the same water in the rubbermaid container, then the "growth inhibitor" would be shared the same as a community tank, wouldnt it? 

Could you set them up in a 20 long with algae and water and a power filter on the back to circulate the water, then set the tray with individual containers mounted down just into it? You'd have filtration, heat, and a large amount of water, hopefully making it more difficult to foul. Then you could do a water change gradually so there wouldnt be a drastic change in temperature.

Again, I havent done any of this yet, but all these different ways to raise them are a little confusing. It seems to me that the cups method would lead to great temp changes when you do water changes, and it seems like trying to keep cups at a certain temp would be a nightmare.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2004)

What about something like this, but with smaller containers? Scroll down to the port-a-swamp.
http://faculty.virginia.edu/xtropicalis ... areNew.htm

Or this
http://tropicalis.berkeley.edu/home/hus ... _1_e_i.htm


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*MAtt*

Matt,
I am not sure that tadpoles excrete growth inhibitiors like fish. But the water was changed weekly so it didn't apply.
Dave


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2004)

I was doing some thinking about this today while at work and was thinking of the over the side hanging device used to hold multiple fighting fish in 1 aquirium but in individual compartments. I was thinking of brigning up a design for a tadpole tank at the Ohio MDG meeting and see what people thought of it and possibly see if FCA would be interested in making it.

The basic design would be about the demensions of a 20long but only 6 or so inches tall. You then divide the tank into separet comartment like a 2x2 square. all with small holes to allow for water to flow through but not the tads. You have a bulk head with external filter, filter the water then pump it back in. I am not sure if tadpoles do release a growth horamone into the water but you would think that if filters can filter ammonia out of the water the could filter out the growth horamone. This is just a rough explantion that need some more planning but I believe it would work for the tadpoles that are cannabalistic. 

Mike P.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

If you want to do a community system the water needs to be replaced on a consistent basis. I do believe that tads secrete some type of growth inhibitor or maybe simply apply dominance through aggression or some other means. Every time I have tried to raise two tads in one container without changing water, I always end up with one large one and one small one. If you don't want the hassle of doing water changes or the complexity of trying to come up with some slick pvc filtered individual container mega system, raise them individually. They do well in surprisingly small containers.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

*.*

how much water does each one need? Do they definately need aeration? 

It seems that a good sized tank 20 Long or something like that housing the tads with lights and an airstone would be good attached to a 10 or 20 gallon aging tank (I saw that on one of those earlier posts) with room temperature water. Just siphon off some water off the tad tank, then refill from aging tank, then refill aging tank (I have well water with near perfect qualities for freshwater fish 7.0 ph and low (er) minerals). Do this every few days. 

I dont know if this would work well, but it seems more difficult to control the temps of individual containers, unless you contain all of them in a larger tank with warm water in the bottom (ex. deli cups in 55 gallon tank with 3" water in it containing the heater). 

Just more thoughts.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

You can use as much as you want, but minimum of around 1.5-2 cups. Also there are certain foods that won't work without water changes but Tetra Tabimin can be used with none. Feed three times a week breaking into appropriate sized pieces for the size of the tad.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

I would like to raise my tads too when I start having them...Anyway, I have well water, not on a public water system..We have perfect water for fish, but it is run through a water softener. Is softened water a problem to raise tads in? Also, what is the ideal temp for water for tads??

Thanks
Dan


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2004)

Something that is not being addressed that I think should be, is an auto feeding system as well. If I am going to automate, then I want to automate all the way, not half assed. Any thoughts?

Mark Johnson

PS - Many of the ideas that are flying around are great!


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I know there are some auto feeders for fish that i have seen at the fish store, ill try to find out about it.

Ryan


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## Cody (Oct 31, 2004)

Long time reader, first time poster. Just wanted to say that I enjoy learning all that you share, and am truly inspired everytime I frequent this forum.  
Anyways I keep geckos in vivariums and havne't had much luck on reptile forums with viv help, thats why I turned here. 

I was reading this post and got to thinking about the growth hormone, is this what you guys are talking about? http://www.pitt.edu/~relyea/movie.html 
I asked my professor and he said he thinks this is the only community influential release, but hes an ecologist. 

I was just wondering and trying to help


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2005)

Just a comment on the release of "growth inhibiting" chemicals... In reef tanks we use activated carbon to filter out a variety of defense chemicals secreted by corals. If one was raising tads in a community setting, perhaps a small canister filter with activated carbon changed weekly would solve the problem. What do you guys think?


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Carbon filters = spindley leg is what I understand. Many people don't realize their RO systems have Carbon filters.




reefgal said:


> Just a comment on the release of "growth inhibiting" chemicals... In reef tanks we use activated carbon to filter out a variety of defense chemicals secreted by corals. If one was raising tads in a community setting, perhaps a small canister filter with activated carbon changed weekly would solve the problem. What do you guys think?


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## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

> Carbon filters = spindley leg


I'm very interested in this statement becuase I use Brita water to rear my tads in (carbon filter). Can you elaborate, site a source, or provide a specific observation.

I've battle SLS this year. Approx 50% of my tads morphed out with Spindely leg (but not all). I wonder.....

BIG THANKS!!!!!


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

If my RO water is coming out with less than 1ppm tds could it be assumed that even with carbon filtration there is nothing "in the water" that could be causing this? (btw - I don't know if mine has carbon filter or not, how would I find out?)


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