# white worms



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Hi here is a pic of my first good imitator egg developing. along the edge of the water around the egg you will see some small squiggly white lines. these are somewhere around 3/16 to 1/4" they move like worms. I have also seen them in water in some of my other tanks. Have had no mysterious deaths or anything, but would like to know if these are a potenial threat to eggs or my frogs, and if so, how do I get rid of them? The eggs came from a setup that is but 6 months old, Corkbark, greatstuff, coco-bedding, ABG mix substrate, spagnum moss, LECA, Bromeliads, Spaths, and Salaginella.








Thanks,


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## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

Hmmm, the pic quality is good but not the same as if I saw them in person. Have you done any fecal tests on your frogs yet? Are the worms round or flattened, are they segmented or continous, what do the ends look like (hooks, barbs, etc)? I have my text out right now but I can't make out the above stuff from the pic. Hmmm you may have a problem but with out a fecal test or the above info I'd rather not speculate. Let me know. 
Mike


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Any chance they are grindle worms? I have them in a lot of my terrariums. They are gross but harmless for the most part. Just a natural part of the microfauna in soil.


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

These are white worms. They are much like grindal worms, except smaller and "whiter". They are a healthy part of the microfauna of a vivarium. So parasites is not an issue. Whether they affect eggs or not, I am unsure. I have had many eggs turn out fine with white worms all over them, but I have no idea if they cause any of my bad eggs. Overall, they aren't that big of an issue.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Thank you all very much, I don't really think they are parasites either, but I have a feeling I would have got more than one egg out of the clutch of four if it weren't for the worms. It seems like the only place they have popped up is on the eggs, so I assume they feed on the eggs or something, I'll probably have some fecals run, just in case. In the meantime, I'll try to get the eggs out before the worms find them.
Thanks again,


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2004)

With this worm, tadpole tea seems to have good result, this worms are most of time nematodes, and tadpole tea prevent this worms of getting inside the eggs


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

I have also asked someone about these worms before. I seem to have the same ones. I have seen them on my eggs also, but they are mostly grouped up on the glass. I have had them in groups around dead flies before also. Anyway, when I mentioned this to some seasoned froggers here in Colorado they said that if they were attacking the eggs that they were BAD NEWS!! They said that there are harmless ones and bad ones and that if they were found eating eggs that the were the bad ones. :evil: So does anyone here know how to tell the difference?? I was told that you can spray the tank with a diluted batril solution to get rid of them. I have still been meaning to call him again to ask about the dilution amount and if you can spray the tank with frogs still in it or not. If anyone else has ever dealt with this please let me know your experiences. Thanks

-Shelley


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

The tad in the pic hatched today, and seems fine!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Soil dwelling nonpathnogenic nematodes can behave in this manner. Often what is observed is not that the nematodes are attacking the egg itself but are feeding on the gel mass that accompanies the eggs as this can begin to decompose before the egg hatches. 
I would be very hesitant about spraying a vivarium down with a solution of baytril (enrofloxin) as this will increase the risk of resistance occurring in aeromonads (potential causes of red leg) reducing the chances of a cure if this is an outbreak. 


I am also not aware of any published references listing baytril as an antihelmetic of any sort. I suspect (speculation here) that the apparent reduction in the numbers may have been due to a reduction in the biofilm. 

In general regarding soil nematodes, they are impossible to eradicate from a system and are nearly impossible to prevent from colonizing a system unless you are keeping everything sterile. 

Ed 
Ed Kowalski
South Jersey


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Ed said:


> Soil dwelling nonpathnogenic nematodes can behave in this manner. Often what is observed is not that the nematodes are attacking the egg itself but are feeding on the gel mass that accompanies the eggs as this can begin to decompose before the egg hatches.
> I would be very hesitant about spraying a vivarium down with a solution of baytril (enrofloxin) as this will increase the risk of resistance occurring in aeromonads (potential causes of red leg) reducing the chances of a cure if this is an outbreak.
> 
> 
> ...


Okay...you pretty much lost me there! LOL I am a blonde though! :roll: But I think that I got your point. So for the most part, they are harmless and nothing to worry about?! That whole baytril thing was just something that I was told to do. Do they come from the substrate then? Also are they something that the frogs would eat, or even notice? Thanks for the info though.

-Shelley


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

They can come in on plants, pieces of wood, bark, stones, anything that been in contact with a moist surface and has not been strictly disinfected. They are harmless. I have seen them feeding on dead eggs with the good eggs right next to them untouched. For the most part they feed on the bacteria and other microorganisms that are found in the tank hence the reference to the biofilm. Baytril as far as I have ever referenced in not used to kill worms but if your reference did it I suspect it was more because they killed off some of the food source.
Overuse of antibiotics is a big problem and can cause the various bacteria in the tank to become resistant to the antibiotics of choice when they need to be treated. 

Hope this helps,

Ed


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Thanks for clarifying Ed. I guess I will just have to keep wiping them off of the walls when I see a lot of them. So, do you think it is safe to say that they are a good indicator as to if eggs are good or bad? Because I have found them on eggs before also and figured that they killed the eggs, but maybe they were no good to begin with. :? 

-Shelley


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## Randy (Mar 18, 2004)

I've had many experiences with these white worms in my several of my vivariums. I've personally seen them wipe out large pumilio egg massess within days, even after tadpole development had begun. Yes, these worms are good decomposers and are part of a healthy ecosystem, but they are also opportunistic feeders. Eggs are a nice, soft, inanimate protein source that they will take advantage of if given the opportunity. I've given up trying to eradicate them, and have only learned to live with them. I try to "beat" them to the punch by removing the eggs before they get to them. I also keep the tanks a little drier now, and that helps slow down their mobility significantly. Anyway, that's my experience with these little nuissances. Hope this helps!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

One of the points I forgot to include above is that there are many different species of soil nematodes. It is possible that we may have each seen a different species with a different ability to destroy good eggs. 

Ed


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## Randy (Mar 18, 2004)

I would think that would definitely be in the scope of possiblility. Honestly, I wish I had your white worms!!! Mine are destructive, vile little beasts. Luckily, I usually only see them in the tinc tanks nowadays


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