# Brazilian Yellow-head vs. Brazilian Cobalt



## AlexD (Sep 19, 2007)

So, can someone please enlighten me on this? I am pretty sure these aren't the same frog, right? A search of the gallery for the word "Brazilian" reveals two pictures side by side of nearly identical frogs. However, one is labeled "Yellow-head" and one is labeled "Cobalt". At any rate, I love mine.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

The pics aren't labeled clearly; the pics are of the the same morph. The correct name for those frogs are "Brazilian Yellowhead".


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm pretty sure they are the same type of frog. You know how it is, one person calls something one thing and and another person says something completely different. They have a lot of yellow (hence yellowhead) but they look remotely like a Surinam cobalt. That's at least what I think....perhaps somebody who actually knows a little bit of history on this morph may be able to enlighten us all on this subject? Anyways, hope this helps,
Scott


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## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

They are definitely different morphs, but with subtle differences. The yellow heads have a deeper yellow and the cobalts are a bit lighter. There are also differences in the black and blue patterning. Some of the tinc morphs are a bit tricky to distiguish.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

With the execption of having bright yellow-orange heads, my BYHs have different patterns and shades. Some are light, some are dark. Some have white or light blue sides w/ spots and some have solid orange sides. Some have the typical tinc "V" and some have yellow backs with one very large black spot. These are differences among my line-bred clutch mates, and they are not very subtle. IMO, this is what makes these one of the most spectacular tincs.


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## AlexD (Sep 19, 2007)

Well, on that Dutch morph guide site, there only listed as "Brazilian". Maybe there is something to that? They are, without a doubt, the most amazing tincs.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

There's nothing significant to that. Look at the cobalts on that site for example, they don't have "Suriname" in front of their name. Brazil hasn't allowed exportation of their frogs in a very long time, so what's listed there is all there has been in the hobby.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

This is why I get a bit annoyed when people just post "Cobalt" next to a frog, especialy if it is being offered for sale. You have Suriname Cobalt, Brazilian Yellow Head Colbalt, and French Guiana Cobalt. All are cobalts, but all are definatley different, so it is important to make that distiction. Otherwise you could potentialy have people mixing frogs by mistake and producing Cobalt hybrids.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

The reason people do that is because Suriname Cobalts are the nominant Cobalt, and really, the nominant Tinc. Not that you don't have a valid point, because you do, but that's the reason why.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

I think I know what you mean by nominant Mike, but can you clarify that as I am not 100% sure?


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## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

Am I the only one that thinks all three- dwarf, brazil, suriname- look extremely close?


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## boombotty (Oct 12, 2005)

I think it's pretty easy to tell each one apart, each "morph" has its own characteristics.
Scott


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## Matt Mirabello (Aug 29, 2004)

*slddave* said:


> Am I the only one that thinks all three- dwarf, brazil, suriname- look extremely close?


The brazilians yellowheads and the cobalts can look very similar when young. The French Guiana dwarfs I have worked with have a more orange yellow color section that is also different shape than the other two frogs have, the legs have deeper blue and the underbelly is different (and the size difference). 

No one has mentioned that there are multiple "cobalt tinctorius" out there. Not just blood lines but tinctorius that a believed to be different morphs that are basically similar. They both (maybe even 3) got labeled as cobalts early on. I got my Cobalts (which are no longer living) from Paul Miles in 1997, F1 from fresh imports. Other Cobalt lines were in the hobby before that; more may have come in after. To be fair though there is some evidence that cobalts exhibit phenotypic plasticity based on postmetamorphic environment or diet. So the differences in some of these "cobalts" could just be due to that. The percent yellow seems to be what is affected, the blue legs/belly is less affected and *MAY* be a good indicator. There is some discussion on the "cobalt" morphs in the frognet archives somewhere.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

The amount of yellow/orange in their patterns can definitely be intensified through diet. Yellow heads can become orange heads w/ a little Naturose!

slddave: They're very similar, but the major distinguisher for BYs is their full on yellow cap with no pattern extending into it.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

defaced said:


> The reason people do that is because Suriname Cobalts are the nominant Cobalt, and really, the nominant Tinc. Not that you don't have a valid point, because you do, but that's the reason why.


Last I checked, the nominat morph of D. tinctorius was the Dwarf French Guiana morph.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I stand corrected. I missed that on the morph guide. This begs a question though, what constitutes that a population is nominat?


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

A population is the nominat population, if whatever is floating in a jar of formaldehyde (or alcohol) with a label similar to "Holotype for _Blah blah_" on it, is that morph.

Edit: D. tinctorius as a named species is so old (1799) that there may not be an extant holotype (not sure). See Wikipedia: Holotype for more.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt is the Nominante ("original") population of tincs... I don't know if it's actually related to the taxonomic holotype in the hobby as it is related to the first type/morph/population that was recognized as that species in the hobby. FG cobalts are nominat tincs, cainarachi fants are nominat fants... FG vents are nominat vents but the holotype of the species is from Ecuador (and there is a possibility that the "nominat" vents aren't even vents... I don't know what the genetics say but FG shield species have been seperated out in other groups).

I always believed these two animals were the same thing... In Europe just called Brasils, in the US labeled yellow head or cobalt (or both) depending on who you talking to. 

The term "Cobalt" refers only to a Tinc color and pattern form... black body color, yellow horse shoe marking on the back, blue netting on the legs. This is just a repetition of the color/pattern form repeated throughout the species over its range (like the red with blue(ish) legs in pumilio, etc). There are multiple forms of these animals in the hobby... country of origin names added to them since the 3 main forms in the US hobby come from different countries.


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## AlexD (Sep 19, 2007)

I always thought it was Suriname Cobalt.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Nope, FG... you gotta realize that the FGs are the really old school... then the suris came in and kinda took over the cobalt market and became the "common" cobalt over here.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

AlexD said:


> I always thought it was Suriname Cobalt.


You're right. When most people say "cobalts", they mean Suriname Cobalts. When the term "Brazil Yellow Head" or 'Brazil Cobalt" is used, it should mean the same thing. When folks say "Dwarf Cobalts" for "FG" or "Dwarf FG Cobalt", its the FG's they're talking about.

Now, all this doesn't mean a doggone thing if the person you're talking to doesn't use the same terminology . . . as Corey and others have shown, there are apparently several different uses of the terms that could muddle the waters.

This all underscoress why it's important to get the lineage of your frogs, and specifically ask the breeder where the adults came from. If they don't know, I would find another place to go.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

^That's what I was trying to say and failing at. Thank you Homer.


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## tortoisekeeper (Jul 12, 2011)

I know this is an old thread but I still don't understand the answer. I have a pair of Surinam Cobalts and a Brazilian Yellow Head. Are they 2 diffrent frogs or not? Mine look completly diffrent.


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Yes they are different morphs from different areas. 

Best,

Chuck



tortoisekeeper said:


> I know this is an old thread but I still don't understand the answer. I have a pair of Surinam Cobalts and a Brazilian Yellow Head. Are they 2 diffrent frogs or not? Mine look completly diffrent.


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## tortoisekeeper (Jul 12, 2011)

Thank you Chuck. I am assuming the Brazilian Yellow Head won't get near the size of the Cobalt. I can't find much information about the BYH.


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

tortoisekeeper said:


> Thank you Chuck. I am assuming the Brazilian Yellow Head won't get near the size of the Cobalt. I can't find much information about the BYH.


I believe BYHs are considered a dwarf Tinc. But they do get bigger than Bakhuis. My BYHs are beatutiful but have grown much slower than my other Tincs of similar age.


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