# Please help, something horribly wrong with my frogs skin



## Salemander (7 mo ago)

I need help. I have a pair of oyapock dart frogs and they both have some sort of skin problem. Their enclosure was my first attempt at a bioactive, and I watered and sprayed it too often and it recently started to get all boggy and the isopods in the soil all died. It wasn’t very well ventilated. The humidity was very high and the temperature was 25 Celsius in the day and around 20 at night. The lighting was full spectrum light and heating bulbs. I mist daily with water treated with water conditioner made for amphibians and reptiles. I feed fruit flies, but only started dusting them with calcium and vitamin supplement the other day.
I’ve had my frogs for around a year now, and got them from a local breeder. Up until now they have been healthy.
I noticed something wrong with one of my frogs skin a little while ago, but didn’t think anything of it because the pattern on the frog was changing at the time and I thought it was just part of that. Then it started to get worse and the enclosure started to smell. I’ve taken them both out of the old enclosure and put them in a clean spare tank with paper towels for substrate, clean hides and a new water dish.
Both have the skin thing but one is much worse than the other. The sickest one is emaciated and while he’s still active, he is uncoordinated and stumbling when he moves. I think he might be bleeding now. I know I screwed up with the enclosure, and I’m working to redo and fix it. But I’m really scared, and I don’t know how to help them. Please, if anyone can tell me what’s wrong and how to treat it, I’d really appreciate it. They’re my little buddies and I don’t want them to die. Please help me help them.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Sounds like a couple issues: severe vitamin deficiency, probably dermal infection. A qualified exotics vet ASAP is very likely the only shot at survival, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope. The vet can advise on euthanasia, which is possibly the most humane option. Again, the vet can diagnose and give options and probabilities.

I'm sorry for what has happened.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

A vet is your only course of action right now.


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## Salemander (7 mo ago)

unfortunately a vet is not an option. All are closed, and the emergency vet doesn’t treat amphibians. And my parents are strongly opposed to going to the vet, and are alternating between trying to convince me that he is fine, and saying that he’s going to die either way. My current course of action is laying in a dark room and crying.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

Salemander said:


> My current course of action is laying in a dark room and crying.


That may not be you most productive option. Studying why this happened, and how to prevent it in the future would at least provide a bit of positive outcome from this unfortunate event. We have all lost frogs. It sucks. You just have to learn from it and become a better keeper.


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## Salemander (7 mo ago)

bulbophyllum said:


> You just have to learn from it and become a better keeper.


I’m working on redoing the bioactive, I know now that I wayyy overwatered, and that vitamins and calcium are a must. I’ve taken out all the substrate to replace it, and am also going to replace my isopod and springtails, and make sure to check on those populations more frequently. I’m going to use more leaf litter this time, to make sure the isopods have enough food and places to hide. I’m also adding more hides just in case that helps, I’m almost certain they had enough hiding places but they get an extra one to help reduce stress. I’m going to look at removing one of the light fixtures to improve ventilation as well. And most of all, I’m going to monitor for injuries and signs of illness much more closely, so I can catch it early, treat the frogs, and fix the source of the issue. 
You’re 100% right, I’ve definitely learned a lot. I’ll just have to cry and fix my mistakes at the same time.
The little fellow is holding on for now, the new course of action is to try and get him to the vet (my parents may be opposed but I am very persistent), to either try and treat the infection or, if it’s more humane, euthanize the poor baby. And at the same time, make sure they have a proper home to return to.


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## Amphibicast (Jan 15, 2021)

Unfortunately the frog pictured looks to be septic and odds are euthanasia is the only humane option at this point. Loosing a frog can be a sad experience but remember to treat the experience as something you can learn from. Keeping dart frogs successfully takes some practice and there is a learning curve so don’t be too hard on yourself. I understand that losing any animal can be difficult though. There are plenty of resources here that will help you moving forward however so don’t lose heart. Learn as much as you can, take your time and start over when you feel you are ready.


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## shannon90 (8 mo ago)

I would personaly also disinfect the enclosure, with alcohol or something else. Im not a vet and never had this experience with my frogs, but if this is some kinda disease, virus or something else, you can change youre substrate and all, but there might be a chance it still in youre enclosure. And new frogs can get it too.
we all make mistakes, and the only thing you can do is learn from it. So dont lose your passion for this beautiful hobby.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

Salemander said:


> I’m working on redoing the bioactive, I know now that I wayyy overwatered, and that vitamins and calcium are a must. I’ve taken out all the substrate to replace it, and am also going to replace my isopod and springtails, and make sure to check on those populations more frequently. I’m going to use more leaf litter this time, to make sure the isopods have enough food and places to hide. I’m also adding more hides just in case that helps, I’m almost certain they had enough hiding places but they get an extra one to help reduce stress. I’m going to look at removing one of the light fixtures to improve ventilation as well. And most of all, I’m going to monitor for injuries and signs of illness much more closely, so I can catch it early, treat the frogs, and fix the source of the issue.


This whole bioactive thing is misleading at best. Dart frogs DO NOT need springtails or isopods add to the enclosure. Most likely spring tails will hitch hike in on plants. Even if there are zero springtails a good enclosure with enough water running through it should flush out the tank where those things are not needed. Yeah they do help but, they are down on the list. Things to focus on are good substrate like ABG mix from a reputable seller. close enough is not good enough. The substrate must be on a drainage layer. Plenty of leaf litter has as many hiding spots as the frogs need. 

Then comes venting. What kind of tank are you using? Fish tanks suck. An exo terra style with top and front verts work well. Rapashy Calcium plus is a must every feeding.

Can you tell us what the set up you are using entails? Maybe some pictures?


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Amphibicast said:


> Unfortunately the frog pictured looks to be septic and odds are euthanasia is the only humane option at this point. Loosing a frog can be a sad experience but remember to treat the experience as something you can learn from. Keeping dart frogs successfully takes some practice and there is a learning curve so don’t be too hard on yourself. I understand that losing any animal can be difficult though. There are plenty of resources here that will help you moving forward however so don’t lose heart. Learn as much as you can, take your time and start over when you feel you are ready.


This is likely the only option.

The next option is to ensure you are only buying animals you can properly care for. If you don't have the ability to bring an injured animal to the vet, then you shouldn't be purchasing and keeping those animals. Just my opinion anyway.


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

The best thing you can do is learn and improve. Remember that we all have lost animals, and those of us who are the most successful in the hobby have probably made the most mistakes. I have a friend that I respect greatly, who almost wiped out his entire collection by failing to keep track of his quarantine schedules (I think he ended up losing no animals, but that was simply good fortune). It may not feel like it, but by sharing your experience and seeking feedback, you have contributed valuable information to the hobby.


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## Salemander (7 mo ago)

bulbophyllum said:


> Can you tell us what the set up you are using entails? Maybe some pictures?


Unfortunately I already tore apart my terrarium, but it is an exo terra. It had live plants and a little hollow log, my frogs liked to hang out between the leaves of my mini orchid. It also has a humidifier that I fill with treated water, but the tubing gets full of water drops and the mist stops, so I didn’t use it much (hand mister was much easier). This is an old picture, but a good general idea. The substrate was a mix I got from a local pet shop with sphagnum moss I added. I made sure the plants didn’t have any pesticides or anything, and washed them just in case. There’s a drainage layer with rocks I got from a store (thoroughly cleaned) and mesh to separate. The lighting was a mix of full spectrum and heating lamps, which was on a timer. Any suggestions for improving my setup are more than welcome, I’m fully redoing it and sanitizing to kill any bacteria.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Salemander said:


> Any suggestions for improving my setup are more than welcome,


Start by carefully reading this flow chart.

Then this overview of dart frog vivaria; it doesn't give a recipe, but instead gives a lot of food for thought.

Then this tinc care sheet (if you're designing the viv for tincs; if another species, then read that care sheet. Reading them all won't hurt, either).

Then read build threads here. It isn't possible to read too many build threads -- not only for the photos, but for the reasoning behind certain design elements, and replies and critiques of the builds. 

Then post questions about your planned viv before buying or installing anything (but after using the search feature here for the keywords in your questions -- most topics have already been very heavily discussed).


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## Salemander (7 mo ago)

He’s gone.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry to hear it, Salemander. It's always tough. You have some great advice in this thread. I hope you stick with it and try again, this time armed with a lot more information.


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## secede0 (May 28, 2009)

Sorry Salem. I will always have a soft spot for Oyapocks. Don't be intimidated by this sad experience. I hope you'll be able to take advantage of all the advice and expertise available here and successfully care for more frogs soon.


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## Imatreewaterme (May 19, 2021)

Sorry for your loss Salemander. Don't take it too personal, use it as a learning experience.

Ricky


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

I'm really sorry you lost your frog. 

You have other frogs, still, is that correct? I noticed this in your habitat description:



Salemander said:


> The lighting was full spectrum light and heating bulbs.


Dart frogs don't do well with heat bulbs, and this could have also been a factor in this guy's demise. That's something you can and should omit from your habitat setup when reestablishing a home for your surviving frog(s). 

I hope you'll stick around here and do a lot of reading. We're very happy to help you be successful with your remaining frogs.


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