# 2 morphs 1 vivarium



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Ok so my title says it all. I have a 29gallon vivarium with a small waterfall/water section housing 4 juvenile auratus. 2 blue & black, 2 green & bronze. The frogs are the same age/size from a breeder who said it was OK to house different morphs of the same species together given adequate tank size, food availability, hiding places, size of the frogs, etc.

I am paying close attention to make sure all the frogs are eating and healthy. So far so good.

What are your thoughts? 

(This isn't a 'are hybrids ok?' thread. Both morphs are auratus)


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*

This is my opinion.  it's fine.

But others are going to see this as similar to the hybrid issue. So just be prepared.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*

You already know the answer to your question. You're seeking affirmation where you won't find it and/or are intentionally trying to create drama.

It is a hybrid issue. Two distinct morphs, cross breeding is hybridization by definition. It is not exclusive to species only.

My thought are , you already know better, but for others who happen upon this thread, you should separate the morphs and find s more responsible and informed breeder for any future frog purchases.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*

Really? Do you not know how to use the search function?
Their your frogs do your thing but any offspring of any frogs in your collection for sale will be questioned.


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## SwampMan (Jun 26, 2015)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*



FrogTim said:


> What are your thoughts?


Can you be more specific?


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## gope (Jun 26, 2014)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*

I personally wouldn't keep 4 animals of that size in a tank that small.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*

1 Biology The offspring of two plants or animals of different species *OR VARIETIES*


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*



FrogTim said:


> My heart was set on auratus and I picked up 3 from USAFrog. >


No surprise here on where you got the bad advice....


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*

I do appreciate the advice/opinions and was wondering if there was any reasons besides "you should know better"? What specific problems could I have other than they might cross-breed and muddy the bloodlines?

Are my black/blues and green/bronze going to have different temperment or care requirements? 

If I am lucky enough to have them breed, I don't plan on selling any. And froglets given away would be done so with full disclosure of their background.


However, USAfrogs was the one that said I could fit the four 3-4month old juveniles in a 29gallon and that different morphs could be housed together.


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## PFG (Oct 9, 2014)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*

They'd probably tell you they could be trained to crochet if it meant making a sale...

You're going to have a lot of frogs on your hands. I'm personally not into auratus, but my friend's single pair laid quicker than he could keep up with. He regularly checked for eggs and destroyed them, and still wound up with froglets.

Probably won't have any issues keeping them together. It's nice you'll disclose the froglets' background, although I feel that is hardly any consolation.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: 2 morphs, 1 vivarium*



FrogTim said:


> I do appreciate the advice/opinions and was wondering if there was any reasons besides "you should know better"? What specific problems could I have other than they might cross-breed and muddy the bloodlines?


I didn't say you should, I said you already do know the answer. Your posts here and elsewhere are evidence of this. I find it highly unlikely that you were aware of the USA Frog controversies and didn't already happen upon the answers.



> Are my black/blues and green/bronze going to have different temperment or care requirements?


The first problem is we can't really answer that because we don't actually know what morphs you have. We know what they were sold to you as, but the source of that information has been proven to not be trustworthy. You have at best two Unknown Auratus morphs. USA Frog has admitted to already crossing varieties, who know what they really sold you? You may already have mixed morph hybrids and not even know it.



> If I am lucky enough to have them breed, I don't plan on selling any. And froglets given away would be done so with full disclosure of their background.


You could do the responsible thing and separate them and not breed them. Or if you insist on keeping them together me and they do breed, cull the eggs.



> (I tried contacting several other breeders who either grew tired of my questions or chose not to respond).


portion that could be considered feedback removed.

Sorry you had that experience. I've answered questions for months, I'd have done the same for you. Hell, I've even turned people away or to other local breeders. 



> However, USAfrogs was the one that said I could fit the four 3-4month old juveniles in a 29gallon and that different morphs could be housed together.


The only thing this establishes for me is that they'd tell you anything to make the sale. This is bad advice on both levels. The number is questionable. The real question isn't, can you do either of these things, but should you. The answers are a resounding no, and, 4 frogs would be housed more responsibly in more space. But when you have 10000 frogs to sell, you'll do whatever you can to unload them.

Me personally, I've refused sales to people for more frogs than they should responsibly house in a vivarium, and refused sales to people who were insistent that they would mix them.


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## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

Everything Doug said is true. Plus, creating another tank for the separate morphs is all part of the fun of being able to build their vivariums. USA Frog has an 50+ page thread on its failures. It was unsuccessfully attempted to create a designer frog niche in the hobby, and has used deception, lies, and straight up hypocrisy, often attacking the hobby for disagreeing with its lack of ethics. 
I have the mindset of always doing extensive research before even considering purchasing an animal. Though that is too late for you, better late than never. Do research, make sure you know how to care for the frogs, and understand that their lives are in your hands now. I wish you the best of luck.


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## SwampMan (Jun 26, 2015)

I read a lot of the older threads here,( still very new to the hobby I know I have a lot to learn) and I have found the one underlying factor to be reputation. Buying frogs from a questionable source can end your credibility before you even get started. Sad, but true. I have held off on buying frogs because of the way they were listed or seller's reputation, or lack thereof. And I know if I ever want to sell froglets, I have to be able to list a reputable line. That way, anyone who ISOs that particular species>morph will know that FrogMan did his homework and he has a desirable clutch of froglets.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

When I read threads that begin like this, I mean in my "Frogspeech" (my personal and private frogs language): "I have a basket of eggs, they have fallen and they are broken - it's good?"
Seriously, ZookeeperDoug has hit the mark, as always. 
This breeder who told you to mix frogs reminds me of a fish seller who says - just to sell his fish - it is possible to put together goldfish and tropical fish in the same tank.
Sorry to read again thread like this - my opinion, of course.


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## zerelli (Sep 14, 2009)

Zero reason not have goldfish mixed. Very poor analogy. 



rigel10 said:


> When I read threads that begin like this, I mean in my "Frogspeech" (my personal and private frogs language): "I have a basket of eggs, they have fallen and they are broken - it's good?"
> Seriously, ZookeeperDoug has hit the mark, as always.
> This breeder who told you to mix frogs reminds me of a fish seller who says - just to sell his fish - it is possible to put together goldfish and tropical fish in the same tank.
> Sorry to read again thread like this - my opinion, of course.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

zerelli said:


> Zero reason not have goldfish mixed. Very poor analogy.


???????????

Any aquarist knows mixing goldfish and other types of tropical fish is a recipe for disaster.

I think maybe you misread what rigel10 was Saying? Mixing different types of goldfish is generally ok, with some obvious exceptions. Rigel was saying, a bad seller, would say you can mix goldfish and other tropical fish, which is very problematic. I think he made a pretty good point of pointing out a similarity here, in that bad sellers will say anything to make a sale. A used car salesman is often very polite, friendly, helpful, and well dressed. At the end of the day, if they still sell you a lemon though, they're a sleezebag.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Again I appreciate the advice. I wish I had known you were a breeder ZooKeeperDoug I would have contacted you. One well respected breeders stopped answering after my 3rd or 4th email. And a couple didn't respond at all beyond a price sheet.

But I have taken away several things from this discussion.

-Just because the breeder is "nice" and responsive doesn't mean they are honest.

-29gallon is too small for 4 auratus juveniles.

-Beyond hybridization issues, I have yet to be presented with a specific reason why different morphs can't be housed together.

-Use a reputable breeder


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

For any reputable Keeper - that is reason enough.

s


FrogTim said:


> ... -Beyond hybridization issues, I have yet to be presented with a specific reason why different morphs can't be housed together.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

FrogTim said:


> Again I appreciate the advice. I wish I had known you were a breeder ZooKeeperDoug I would have contacted you. One well respected breeders stopped answering after my 3rd or 4th email. And a couple didn't respond at all beyond a price sheet.


That's their loss then. I wouldn't call myself a breeder. I'm just a hobbyist that produces a few frogs now and then to help support my habit. I like to have a few good frogs to pass along to people. The only reason I even breed some of the more common morphs is to have something to offer to locals to generate interest in the hobby. I actually never want to be a "breeder". I do breed frogs, but that in and of itself doesn't garner the label, and just because someone calls themself a breeder doesn't mean they are. Let's face it, these frogs are super easy to breed. Beyond a few select species, it takes no special skill or expertise. 



> But I have taken away several things from this discussion.
> 
> -Just because the breeder is "nice" and responsive doesn't mean they are honest.


Yep, and some of the biggest A-holes in this hobby produce really nice frogs too. One guy has such a horrible rep, yet manages to get people to put money down months in advance for morphs, strings them along, and they still tolerate it, because he has sought after frogs that others can't seem to breed successfully.



> -29gallon is too small for 4 auratus juveniles.


Look on the bright side, you can separate the two "morphs" and set up another nice viv.



> -Beyond hybridization issues, I have yet to be presented with a specific reason why different morphs can't be housed together.


This is the most important and specific reason not to. If you do not let them breed, cull eggs, etc. you can negate the hybridization issue. And again, it isn't can't, it is shouldn't. There is a difference. You can do whatever you want. I'm just trying to provide you with useful information to make an informed decision.



> -Use a reputable breeder


This is rule number 1 in my opinion.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

The source of the frogs makes them questionable from the beginning. I agree that there is no possible way to make sure that what you actually have is what you ordered. Credibility is a real issue here.

HOWEVER, (and I hate to add further complexity, here) is it possible that these two particular "morphs" might actually the same locale with a lot of phenotypic variability? This article (great site, BTW) made me thing maybe the OP might have randomly chosen two morphs that are, in fact, the same "morph." 

Green & Bronze - Auratus-Morphs.com

Maybe I am wrong about these being the ones in the article. It was just something I thought I would throw out there. Again, no way to be sure, and I would never breed those frogs, let alone sell them.

I hope you enjoy your frogs, FrogTim. I am glad, though, that you are now reading Dendroboard and have the right information to make informed buying decisions in the future.

Mark


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

First, you don't have adequate space
Second, you don't mix morphs.
Third, i smell shenanigans! 



FrogTim said:


> Ok so my title says it all. I have a 29gallon vivarium with a small waterfall/water section housing 4 juvenile auratus. 2 blue & black, 2 green & bronze. The frogs are the same age/size from a breeder who said it was OK to house different morphs of the same species together given adequate tank size, food availability, hiding places, size of the frogs, etc.
> 
> I am paying close attention to make sure all the frogs are eating and healthy. So far so good.
> 
> ...


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

zerelli said:


> Zero reason not have goldfish mixed. Very poor analogy.


@Zerelli: I'd like to know your point of view about mixing frogs and hybridization. I ask you because I do not read any other your post in this thread, other than this about my _very poor analogy_.


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## amartin916 (Feb 17, 2015)

How is putting 2 different morphs any different from say 2 humans of different races breeding?...you have a "mixed" race...not a hybrid human. Those who seem to against 2 of the same species seems to only care about sale value. I thought this was a hobby for most of us and not a small business venture. If your growing them for your own use and they don't fight I have yet to hear any reason to make this a problem. Again mixed breeds is a part of everyday life these days.....


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

It scares me this continuous intervention, I'm noticing for some time now, of "novices" - or members with a few posts - involved only about this topic. It seems to me as if they want to impose a point of view that moves away from those that have been so far the "unwritten rules" of the hobby.
Yes, it is true, they are "unwritten rules", in the sense that no law forbids you to mix or hybridize frogs or whatever you want (let's not quibble about the terms but we base ourselves on the substance that is frogs born from different morphs or localities), but that it is a practice to avoid.
It is obvious everyone does what he want of their frogs, also mixing them, but it does not mean it's right.


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## PFG (Oct 9, 2014)

I've noticed the same. Can't help but wonder if I've jumped into the hobby just in time to watch it crumble beneath the same stupidity that has engulfed the snake trade. 

$20 normal ball python + $50 normal blood python = rare $1,000 "Super Ball"... No thanks.


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Wow is right, that's a shame...

Anyway, I don't even have frogs yet as I got into this hobby for the set ups. The thing I don't understand is with ball pythons and such they all look the same, literally exactly the same. So in some way I could see how someone with a bright idea to change that might be inspired to try.

But... With PDF's its like what more do you possibly need? Whatever anyone came up with would be at best just as colorful as the real deal.

No scientific papers needed to prove that.

I have a pure pine isle leachie gecko that I paid top dollar for from a reputable breeder. Many people cross those guys but you can still find the real deal from real breeders. I guess that's the key to all of this...

Make sure you know where your animals are coming from...


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## PFG (Oct 9, 2014)

cam1941 said:


> Wow is right, that's a shame...
> 
> Anyway, I don't even have frogs yet as I got into this hobby for the set ups. The thing I don't understand is with ball pythons and such they all look the same, literally exactly the same. So in some way I could see how someone with a bright idea to change that might be inspired to try.
> 
> ...


The problem is you don't really know. Once they're out there being bred, it's only a matter of time before a buyer forgets or doesn't care about the mixed genetics. Once one slips into a pure pool it's game over. This isn't like breeding albino ball pythons where you can hatch out regular, pure pythons by selectively breeding to eliminate the trait.

It doesn't matter how reputable your breeder is - no one is immune from accidentally acquiring one. Then the only way to assure pure breeds is - you guessed it - more importing!


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

I hope you're wrong because how can anyone say that that hasn't happened yet. 

At the end of the day this argument keeps coming up because people who want to mix keep coming here for "Daddy's permission" but whose to say that other people aren't playing mad scientist right now even though the resounding consensus is not to mix.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm surprised this turned into such a hot topic.

I am NOT advocating the mixing of morphs. I did so under the misguidance of a breeder.

Beginners and novices such as myself have a hard time comprehending the taboo of mixing morphs. In my research the topic is very repetitive with people condemning hybrids while presenting no other reason than "it's wrong". Joshsfrogs had a good article as why not to mix morphs and it went over again mostly hybridization, but he also mentioned different temperments, which to me would be of a greater concern.

It is interesting that some auratus do have some variance between morphs, but my frogs are definitely 2 blue & black and 2 green & bronze with the "black" patterns being very different between the two colors. I doubt they are the same 'morph'.

Lesson learned. I now have to make the decision to save up for another vivarium, or part with two of my froggies. And in the future I will use a more reputable source for my frogs. Hopefully the LA Reptile Show in Costa Mesa next month will have some good specimens.


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

The thing that really sucks is that like leachies, if mixing does take off its going to make proven pure frog lines really expensive.

That should be the argument right there... Its going to make this hobby even more expensive then it already is.


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

We know people are doing it. In my opinion, it can hurt the hobby because it's getting more and more important to buy from established, respected hobbyists to ensure locale purity. This can in turn hurt those honest breeders that aren't as well known because who wants to take the chance of getting some of these spoiled bloodlines?

-Pat



cam1941 said:


> I hope you're wrong because how can anyone say that that hasn't happened yet.
> 
> At the end of the day this argument keeps coming up because people who want to mix keep coming here for "Daddy's permission" but whose to say that other people aren't playing mad scientist right now even though the resounding consensus is not to mix.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Why can't we be friends?


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

FrogTim said:


> I'm surprised this turned into such a hot topic.
> 
> I am NOT advocating the mixing of morphs. I did so under the misguidance of a breeder.


So are you 100% satisfied with that breeder knowing what you know now? If not, you should take them up on their satisfaction guarantee.



> Beginners and novices such as myself have a hard time comprehending the taboo of mixing morphs. In my research the topic is very repetitive with people condemning hybrids while presenting no other reason than "it's wrong". Joshsfrogs had a good article as why not to mix morphs and it went over again mostly hybridization, but he also mentioned different temperments, which to me would be of a greater concern.


The reason it is repetitive is people have gotten tired of people wanting the question answered. It gets old. There are endless threads on the topic here, many of them stickies. I find it hard to believe that you researched much. we have answered these questions millions of times now it seems and people are tired of spoon feeding people the answers.



> It is interesting that some auratus do have some variance between morphs, but my frogs are definitely 2 blue & black and 2 green & bronze with the "black" patterns being very different between the two colors. I doubt they are the same 'morph'.


You can have your doubts, and that is the problem. From a reputable breeder you would have no doubt. You should know what your frogs are. You should want to say with confidence, what morph they are, what lineage they come from, etc. this is important husbandry information, without it, as previously stated, it is difficult to help you with reliable information.



> Lesson learned. I now have to make the decision to save up for another vivarium, or part with two of my froggies. And in the future I will use a more reputable source for my frogs. Hopefully the LA Reptile Show in Costa Mesa next month will have some good specimens.


And that's what really sucks, we don't want anyone coming into a hobby going "geez, lesson learned". It's s turnoff to so many people. I hope you stick with it, I really do. Who knows what other bad information you got. There is so much we've pointed out some of it potentially hazardous to your animals long term health.

Lemme ask you, what did they tell you about supplements if anything?


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

FrogTim said:


> Why can't we be friends?


A cute appeal to emotion, but the answers have already been provided.


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

amartin916 said:


> How is putting 2 different morphs any different from say 2 humans of different races breeding?...you have a "mixed" race...not a hybrid human. Those who seem to against 2 of the same species seems to only care about sale value. I thought this was a hobby for most of us and not a small business venture. If your growing them for your own use and they don't fight I have yet to hear any reason to make this a problem. Again mixed breeds is a part of everyday life these days.....


It is very different. Many of these morphs have not even encountered each other in the wild for thousands of years, and putting them together in a small glass tank can possibly cause stress, spread illness, and potentially unhealthy hybrids. In fact, there are discussions about classifying many morphs of Dendrobatids as different species entirely.

All races of humans belong to the same subspecies and there is no evidence that populations of humans have genetic boundries that place them into seperate groups of humans. 

This is from the Human Wikipedia page:



Wikipedia said:


> Despite this, there are no genetic boundaries around local populations that biologically mark off any discrete groups of humans.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

The picture was simply a parting shot since they are soon to be separated.

The 100% satisfaction guarantee will most likely require me to pay to ship them back. 

The breeder recommended I use Repashy+. They said they personally rotate between Repashy Plus, Herpativ and Herpativ Calcium. Currently I am using Repashy Plus since it has calcium, D3 and a host of other vitamins. Is this sufficient?

I am going to keep with the hobby because I love all the wonders nature has for us. It is my fault more so than the breeder's for ending up with the frogs and set-up that I have.


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

FrogTim said:


> The picture was simply a parting shot since they are soon to be separated.
> 
> The 100% satisfaction guarantee will most likely require me to pay to ship them back.
> 
> ...


I typically just use Repashy Cal +. I also use Vit. A once a month. I do this with all of my frogs and they are doing awesome.

Sent from my LG-D415 using Tapatalk


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

FrogTim said:


> The picture was simply a parting shot since they are soon to be separated.


Happy to hear this.



> The 100% satisfaction guarantee will most likely require me to pay to ship them back.


No doubt. Worth mentioning though. If it does, it's kind of an empty promise on their part.



> The breeder recommended I use Repashy+. They said they personally rotate between Repashy Plus, Herpativ and Herpativ Calcium. Currently I am using Repashy Plus since it has calcium, D3 and a host of other vitamins. Is this sufficient?


Interesting....

They spent a lot of time and effort bashing Repashy as an inferior product in the past.

Specifically though, what is Repashy Plus? There are two Repashy products that carry the Plus in the name. Which one were you recommended.

Assuming you're using the the right Repashy product, you can eliminate the herptevite products which do not contain preformed vitamin A. They're fine to use as long as you're using another source of preformed vit A.



> I am going to keep with the hobby because I love all the wonders nature has for us. It is my fault more so than the breeder's for ending up with the frogs and set-up that I have.



It's not your fault at all.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Thanks for the kind words. It is partially my fault since I did a lot of research on here. To me there was a lot of "hybrid bashing" along with negative breeder comments but no specific cases where Frog A was housed with Frog B and this is what happened. Joshsfrogs was the only site where I found case examples. (different species were housed together and none of the frogs reached full size)

Your posts and a few by DendroDave have been the most informative so far.

I was recommended Repashy Calcium Plus and it has been what I have been using. If a vitamin supplement has everything the frogs need, why use multiple bottles?


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

There no need really. Some frogs require a boost in vit A if you are breeding so many use that as well. I have switched to dendrocare and like it a lot so far.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

Not sure if I missed it (I'm on my mobile at a mandatory fun event at work) but you are returning them to the seller?


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

FrogTim said:


> Your posts and a few by DendroDave have been the most informative so far.
> 
> I was recommended Repashy Calcium Plus and it has been what I have been using. If a vitamin supplement has everything the frogs need, why use multiple bottles?


Glad we can help.

That's exactly it though, why use multiples when Repashy calcium plus is a perfectly suitable all in one. Maybe to sell you the other two products? I dunno.

The herptevite products are ok products, they just don't have the preformed vit A that darts need. I'm concerned that if you're using cal plus in rotation with herptevite products your frogs may not be getting enough vit a. This is a problem that can take a while to manifest itself. I would recommend cutting those peoducts out and just use the calcium plus.

And I have to find it laughably ironic that they're now recommending this product when they went to sooooo much effort to bash it previously. How can you trust anything they say?


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Aldross

I am currently debating on returning them. With the horrendous cost of shipping I think if I did return them it would be at a loss. I have to check my finances but it seems as if I will be setting up another vivarium or giving them away. It would be nice if I could at least get what I paid for them... in a perfect world.

ZookeeperDoug
The Repashy Calcium Plus seems to be what everyone here uses and I like the simplicity and cost of an all in one. 

And after the advice the breeder gave me, I couldn't trust anything they say. They recommended 4 to 5! frogs in a 29gallon, housing different morphs together and on their website it even states that isopods and springtails aren't necessary in a living vivarium. Needless to say, I have since ordered my isos and springtails and am working on a solution for my over-crowded bi-morph tank. 

Above all else, I am just happy that my frogs are eating, hopping around and seem healthy.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

PFG said:


> The problem is you don't really know. Once they're out there being bred, it's only a matter of time before a buyer forgets or doesn't care about the mixed genetics....It doesn't matter how reputable your breeder is - no one is immune from accidentally acquiring one. Then the only way to assure pure breeds is - you guessed it - more importing!


PFG is on point. This is the crucial point that pro-hybrid folks never seem to address. We have examples of this happening in the past. 



FrogTim said:


> I was recommended Repashy Calcium Plus and it has been what I have been using. If a vitamin supplement has everything the frogs need, why use multiple bottles?


If I had to guess I'd say because Repashy is pretty expensive and they have 10,000 frogs. Repashy is a pretty good recommendation, though. That was sound advice. I'm surprised they've changed their mind on it. I guess I missed the retraction.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

Because they disgust me with their horrendous business tactics I'm willing to help offset the cost of this for you by giving you a couple cobalt and some giant orange isopods if you pay the Shipping


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Aldross said:


> Because they disgust me with their horrendous business tactics I'm willing to help offset the cost of this for you by giving you a couple cobalt and some giant orange isopods if you pay the Shipping


Thank you Aldross

I would love to take you up on that as soon as I get this sorted. I love these frogs regardless where they came from. I'm just trying to make sure these ones are taken care of before expanding.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

Ok. If you do decide to return them just send me a pm. If I no longer have cobalts I always have something going on and we can talk then.


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## Tzunu'un (Apr 15, 2014)

So much for the 100% satisfaction guarantee, if that's what they claim.

Does Ship Your Reptiles still offer a 40% discount for first time shippers?
If so then perhaps FrogTim can use this....this would assist in lowering the return shipping cost.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Tzunu'un said:


> So much for the 100% satisfaction guarantee, if that's what they claim.
> 
> Does Ship Your Reptiles still offer a 40% discount for first time shippers?
> If so then perhaps FrogTim can use this....this would assist in lowering the return shipping cost.


I'd be willing to chip in $10 towards the return shipping for you, if you decide to go that route. If nothing else, it would be worth it to see if US frog would honor their guarantee, and refund your purchase.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Dane said:


> I'd be willing to chip in $10 towards the return shipping for you, if you decide to go that route. If nothing else, it would be worth it to see if US frog would honor their guarantee, and refund your purchase.


Count me in for $10! Great idea Dane.


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## PFG (Oct 9, 2014)

I'm sure I could spare an auratus or two once my tadpoles morph out...


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

If you're dissatisfied and wish to send them back and cannot afford the shipping I can donate 10 bucks as well via Paypal.


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

2015 and we're still having this same exact thread every other week...

*grumbles off into the night*


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Sorry HunterB I guess I'm a slow learner.

I'm afraid that the breeder is going to simply refund me rather than have me send back the frogs. There was an issue with one of the frogs upon arrival and they just refunded the cost of the frog.

I think either way I am going to be keeping these guys and possible do an interim "storage box" container for them so I can separate the morphs.


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