# Good to be back and getting ready for a 180or 210 build (not my first rodeo)



## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Hey guys it’s been a while and not sure what all has changed these days. The board seem a little quieter than it use to. I left right around the buy out of the forum and not sure if everyone is still around that i know is still here (Doug pumillio , Sean the frog whisperer… too many other others that shaped my husbandry). If they left did they end up somewhere else? Hoping someone is willing to fill me in with info. I spent time creeping all the sticky threads and doesn’t seem like much has been added. I getting ready to do a single big build and only a single build (someone please give me the strength to keep it to one build this time around). So let’s get to some fun questions
*Any other places I should be looking at for additional info?*


Lighting: Seems LEDs are finally going well! I’m checking out the jungle hobbies currently (don’t care about modes) but that light curve looks decent and wattage seems to be high enough to light a 24-30” deep tank which I need.
*What’s the heat like off these bad boys?*

Substrates: before I left we were playing with pitchers mound clay but I felt that it wasn’t doing the job as well as we all hoped and have thought about pads of active clay so we could have drainage to the false bottom and provide locations that through the travel of the frog would pick up the needed goodness. 
*Any new techniques for healthy calcium up take and conversion?*

New species/subs: wow!!! Looks like Columbia opened its doors!!!! Good job guys glad that happened. The only thing I don’t understand is who brought them in and how to get on a waiting list? I supported Understory at every opportunity but seems the big obligates are no longer an interest to them?
This has been and still might be a touchy subject and would be happy to take a private message from anyone that has the time to catch me up. I understand the ethics so please let’s keep this civil. I’m hear to be friendly and contribute as much as I can like I have in the past. I do not want to sir any pots! Hell in the end if I can just get a pair going and enjoy them like I use to that will make me happy.

enough of that, here’s what’s in the works! A 180-210set up. The top question about lights is what will dictate the hood dimensions.Depending on heat output of the lights I’d like to have them about 6” min off the glass but not sure how much heat that radiate into the tank??? If I need more height than that I’ll have to step down to the 180 ☹.
What do you guys think???? You can see how the hood changes this up a bit and that I will build my mantle height. (Before anyone gets scared. Tuning the gar fire place on for 3 hours had 0*F delta between it and the other side… I also don’t use the fireplace it’s just for looks but also ran it to verify no hazards exist)


















*Link for the build*


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Welcome back! I wondered a lot of the same questions as you when I came back, here's what I can tell you and hopefully others will chime in as well. It has gotten a lot quieter over the years, reddit and Facebook are to blame. Ed still posts occasionally. I recently discovered that Doug has become a legend among the pet springtail hobby with his clay based springtail culture idea. I don't believe that he has frogs anymore but I could be wrong. Either way he hasn't posted here recently but he was active on here last year. Here is his YouTube channel if you need to contact him: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5vJ3ZOSEMpcGrMy2i_C7hA. Sean's Instagram Login • Instagram links to his Facebook and the frog classified site that he currently sells frogs on, so I know he is still in the hobby at least.

The newest thing that I've noticed is calcium clay mud baths for frogs: Mud baths as well as more ventilation rather than internal air circulation. Edit: I've also noticed plant price increases/less availability. Covid and stimulus checks turned a lot of bored people into "rare plant collectors"


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

motydesign said:


> Any other places I should be looking at for additional info?


Depends, do you want actual husbandry advice or just pretty pictures of overly wet terrariums? 



motydesign said:


> What’s the heat like off these bad boys?


Most LED's give off relatively little heat, especially well made ones. I'm not familiar with the jungle dawn ones. 


motydesign said:


> Any new techniques for healthy calcium up take and conversion?


Turface and calcium bearing clay are in use wire extensively. Calcium bearing clay especially in use for obligate egg feeders.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The JD lights (I've only used the little ~20w ones; got rid of them for dimmable panels) throw some heat, but don't radiate it downward. A fan venting the hood would be a good idea. 

If temps are really an issue, a fixture with a remote (and efficient) power supply is best. People are using cheap Chinese aquarium lights with decent results. Shop lights have been mentioned a few times lately (search and order results by date, should find a couple recent threads).

Not sure how long you've been gone, but Repashy is the go-to supplement line.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Thank you all so far for the info! Good to see you still around Okapi! Will be looking into the springtail cultures, back when I was talking to Doug we were testing coal vs the clay, but very interested to research the method that ended up being the most successful.
Mud bath… hmmm I’ll have to go try to find them.
The well vented tanks has always been my favored approach considering the in situ experience I had with their actual habitat and water content. I attribute much of my success in the past to a well set up frog room.

fishingguy, def looking for husbandry with minimal fluff just like good ole days of Ed with a citation on almost every post hahah. Yes def am looking to work with obligates so will search what bearing clay beds and implementation.

Socratic I’m interested in why you kicked the JD’s? Marty at mistking never selected a product that wasn’t perfect and I haven’t heard of LEDs ever being too bright hahaha. Not laughing at your comment rather how far out of the know I am being we have chased lunens at fail for many years in the past. I would love reference to your before and after thoughts of the changing of fixtures as well as what you changed to? Oh and thankfully repashy was around even before me and was the best for all aspects of feeding.

*The worst info above is shortage of plants!!!! I need a metric ton of slow growers and I really want to avoid a lot of the stuff I use to pull out like weeds after the first months. Is there a place for plants now? I use to just jump on the wanted adds and say “I have a $100 for who ever what to toss together an amazing box of plants” and never was disappointed. This is devastating information* 😢


thanks you all again for the information


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## DanConnor (Apr 12, 2009)

Here's my plant link list, in case it's helpful
https://michaelsbromeliads.com/
Wholesale Nursery - Bromeliads | Grant's Farm Nursery
Bromeliads for Sale - Buy Bromeliads Online | Bromeliad Paradise
https://www.orchidgene.com/shop?Collection=Jewel+Orchid
House Plant Shop
HOME
My Home Nature - Rare Plants & Exotic Pets | MyHomeNature
Steve's Leaves | Exotic Plants and Tropical Plants for Sale
SIAMGREENCULTURE Home of rare ferns, tropical mosses and unusual terrarium plants
http://www.asiaticgreen.com
LittleBromShop | Etsy
Miniature orchid species - Buy Online
Orchid Plants for Your Terrariums
https://www.nhorchids.org/page-1802584
RareFerns – Tropical ferns, epiphytes, platycerium, huperzia, ant ferns, ant plants, terrarium plants he has email list
Mountain Orchids & Select Begonias
http://www.glassboxtropicals.com
Glasshouse Works: Rare & Exotic Plants
Live Plants For Vivariums, Terrariums, and Other Planted Tanks | NEHERP - Your One Stop Vivarium Shop!
Kartuz Greenhouses: Rare and Exotic Plants
J&L Orchids
Orchid Species for Sale - The Mall of Orchids
Platycerium ferns
BucePlant.com - Aquascaping and Aquarium Plants Super Store
Home - Arizona Aquatic Gardens
https://www.guecalcolombiantropicals.com/pages/frontpage
http://www.equaflor-a.com.ec/index.php/en/
Ecuagenera - Orchids of Ecuador
https://www.aquariumplantsfactory.com/

weird- posting the links changed what I have written, but the links still lead to the right place


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Dan you are the MAN!!!!

by the way no one should look at these links for 2-3 months, or until I get everything I need hahahha


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## papaburt4 (Apr 26, 2021)

1. I think plants are more accessible than ever. Offer up or Facebook plant purge groups are the best places to find them. LED’s are cheap and everyone has become a collector so there’s more high humidity plant propagatings and cuttings out there then ever. Unless it’s variegated you should be able to find what you’re looking for cheap/free some times.

2. The obligate keepers have been putting cups filled with calcium clay in their vivs. I slather a rock in it, same effect but I think it looks a little better.

3. I recommend Fluval plant lights for that height. The jungle dawn (not sure if it’s same as jungle hobbies) was far too bright for my 36x36.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

I've had no problems finding the plants I want. The only problem is the prices have skyrocketed since I left the hobby in 2015. But there are still guys that will put together good plant packages for you.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

DanConnor said:


> Here's my plant link list, in case it's helpful


Lots of great places listed, but a few of those most likely poach plants. Specifically My Home Nature and SiamGreenCulture.


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## DanConnor (Apr 12, 2009)

Harpspiel said:


> Lots of great places listed, but a few of those most likely poach plants. Specifically My Home Nature and SiamGreenCulture.


I've heard people say that- but based on what evidence? I made an order from each of those places and everything looked like it was cultured, although I couldn't say for sure.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Harpspile
More on topic, if you don’t mind me asking, why are you selling your satellite pro? Did you replace it with a different fixture or just down grading? Thanks in advance


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

DanConnor said:


> I've heard people say that- but based on what evidence? I made an order from each of those places and everything looked like it was cultured, although I couldn't say for sure.


Based on discussions in rare plant FB groups, I believe, but I’d have to dig pretty deep to find them.



motydesign said:


> Harpspile
> More on topic, if you don’t mind me asking, why are you selling your satellite pro? Did you replace it with a different fixture or just down grading? Thanks in advance


Oh I sold that months ago, replaced it with a Finnex Planted+ ALC. I had always wanted color-shifted sunrise and sunset so I could get pretty lighting moods like this (“sunrise” with the Finnex):









With the Current you could do custom color for day and night, but not the sunrises and sunsets like I wanted. With the Finnex you can set custom color and level in 3 hour blocks day and night, and it slowly transitions between them. Both lights are nearly equivalent PAR and I think both would be way overpowered for frogs (I don’t keep frogs, and I do keep high light orchids).


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Hmmm I’ll have to go look at the Finnex and see what it’s stats look like. Working with the 210gal I’m going to need a little oomph of par to get anything down to the sub. Still really doing my research before pulling the trigger. All of the lighting threads I’ve read have contributions from the same people responding in here so I feel I’m on the right track at least.

*what happened with driftwood in the hobby???? Omg I need some big pieces but it’s like empty out there? Looks like the sterilization techniques are the same a week of bleach and a day of 250* F bake. *


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## DanConnor (Apr 12, 2009)

I use these on a 350 gallon vivarium and they definitely have the oomph








EcoSmart 120W Equivalent Daylight PAR38 Dimmable LED Flood Light Bulb (2-Pack) - - Amazon.com


EcoSmart 120W Equivalent Daylight PAR38 Dimmable LED Flood Light Bulb (2-Pack) - - Amazon.com



www.amazon.com


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

holy cow why is colored GE1 Silicone so hard to come by??? looking for the black GE312A and GE412A... Grainger is the only place ive found and they wany $10 a tube, has the world gone absolutely crazy?!?!?!


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

motydesign said:


> holy cow why is colored GE1 Silicone so hard to come by??? looking for the black GE312A and GE412A... Grainger is the only place ive found and they wany $10 a tube, has the world gone absolutely crazy?!?!?!


$10 A TUBE? THATS A STEAL I tried to get some last year and it was $20 a tube!


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Oh shit haha guess I’m soo out of the know. I read that they discontinued but I guess I’ll have to jump on it. I’ve been looking at the 100% dap that also seed to find but is about $6 a tube. Considering the situation and my OCD I might splurge for the extra to work with a silicone I know so we’ll.


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

motydesign said:


> Oh shit haha guess I’m soo out of the know. I read that they discontinued but I guess I’ll have to jump on it. I’ve been looking at the 100% dap that also seed to find but is about $6 a tube. Considering the situation and my OCD I might splurge for the extra to work with a silicone I know so we’ll.


honestly at these prices, maybe try going with black aquarium silicone instead.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Suggestions on the brown / bronze?


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## Dr. Manhattan (Oct 28, 2016)

motydesign said:


> Suggestions on the brown / bronze?


I just buy the black aquarium silicone online. Yah it's not going to be cheap, nothing is these days, but at least I know it's safe. The DanConnor's suggestion of the LED spot lights was a good one. I use the exact same ones in one of my paludariums (no dart frogs) and they punch all the way down to the bottom. 4 feet high in total. Maybe you could put a strip across the top as well. I use both AquaticLife Edge and Fluval Plant Spectrum LED strips. They both throw off a little heat but up, not down.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Maybe another crazy topic, but is Patrick Nabors still producing and doing his thing? Anyone willing to pm me his contact info if so?


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## Dr. Manhattan (Oct 28, 2016)

motydesign said:


> Maybe another crazy topic, but is Patrick Nabors still producing and doing his thing? Anyone willing to pm me his contact info if so?



He might be. I forget what his actual site was called but you could always check Fauna classifieds under the amphibian section.


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## athiker04 (Nov 15, 2013)

Any updates?


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

athiker04 said:


> Any updates?


Yeah I’m 90% done, co2 dosing the tank right now, have had some serious issues with the misting system and let’s just say the king in my opinion has fallen from his thrown…. Pictures to come and will have its own build thread like I did in my sticky on “how to build a viv”. She’s pretty…. But the wood really didn’t make here back bone as strong as I wanted. Stay tuned haven’t forgotten you guys


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

motydesign said:


> Yeah I’m 90% done, co2 dosing the tank right now, have had some serious issues with the misting system and let’s just say the king in my opinion has fallen from his thrown…. Pictures to come and will have its own build thread like I did in my sticky on “how to build a viv”. She’s pretty…. But the wood really didn’t make here back bone as strong as I wanted. Stay tuned haven’t forgotten you guys


Wait are you co2 dosing a terrestrial tank? Is that a thing? does it work? How do you do it?


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Co2 is for a bug bomb to insure I don’t have nematodes slugs snails and junk


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Here’s the build progress








The 210 living room display


We’ll this has come along fairly quickly and I’m excited to share these photos. The inspiration to come back into the hobby after 10 years was a combination of a few things. I’ve never stopped dreaming about the feeling I hadn’t fed my frogs and finding very rare species in very odd places like...




www.dendroboard.com


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