# 29 gallon construction journal (UPDATED 12/15)



## Guest (Jan 14, 2005)

*** SEE PAGE 7 FOR UPDATED VIV AND FROG PICS!  ***

well im starting a 29 viv. ive seen a few "how-to" type threads here on DB lately, and there are tons of god sites (most of them yours here on DB) that show constructiom of a viv. i would like to document my viv step by step, day by day. this will give newbies (im in this bracket) a good bit of info to get started with. it should also allow you experienced guys to offer your help and criticism to me in my project. 

a little background on me:
ive owned 5 mantella aurantiaca (kept in 20 long), 5 melanophryniscus stelzneri (kept in 20 long), and 2 dendrobates auratus (kept in 10 gallon false bottom) i lost all of my frogs over the summer. we had a thunderstorm here that blew out our power. in doing so it fried my compressor of my AC unit. for two days the fan was sucking hot air from my attic and blowing it into the house. the frog room was allready the warmest room in the house. it got over 100* in there. very sad i lost everything in that room except my male day gecko (phelsuma laticauda).

currently i keep a a male chameleo calyptratus, anolis carolinensis, phelsuma laticauda, bufo americanus, trachemys scripta elegans, and hyla caerula. i also have a 37 gallon FW planted tank (which i hope to convert to PDF viv), and a 75 gallon reef tank.

allright, on with the show:
i plan for this to be a fairly elaborate tank. i would like to have a small water fall and a little stream, both powered by the same pump. ive never used great stuff as a background, but want to give it a whirl. i purchased two cans of the stuff, and four tubes of GE II silicone, two brown and two black. ive only built a false bottom once, so this is all new to me. i went ahead and bought a plumbers pack of 2" long cupplings to raise the false bottom, and am going to get egg crate and cross stitch grid this afternoon on the way home. i have a piece of drift wood, collected from a safe site in VA, a root from my planted FW tank, and a few cork tubes and flats from random projects. i have "forest floor" by exo-terra (i believe) and some cedar bark.

allright heres the plan:

-put silicone on the sides of the aquarium, about 6" from the back. i took this from black jungle's site, to hide the GS from outside the tank. 

-silicone the cupplings into place on the bottom of the viv, so i dont have to worry about them tipping over when installing the false bottom. 

-cut, then dry fit the eggcrate in place a few times to get the exact look i want. i believe i will leave a pond in the front right center of the viv. i will also have an opening in the back right corner to access the pump and some space behind the crate to run plumbing easily. i will be using the driftwood from my planted tank as the wateer barrier and will have the crate cut around this also. its about 10" tall so will create a high perch also.

-line the front of the false bottom wth GS and line it with gravel, attached with black silicone. i dont want the false bottom to be seen from the front either.

-mount the piece of collected driftwood to the back left corner of the tank, to create an overhung root. this will provide a hide and climbing area, giving that corner a lot of depth and height. 

-run plumbing lines from pump out into viv. leave excess hose to be placed and trimmed later.

-mount a half tube of cork to the left corner. im hoping i can find one at the LPS thick enough to offer an access to the pump. i will be able to place a piece of styrofoam over the pump (when access is not needed). this styro will act as a platform to place a small FF cuture on when i go on trips, or to supplement my regular dusted feedings. the cork i need will look like a tree in the corner. it will run from the top of the viv to the bottom, not allowing access for the frogs to get back there. i will raise it with GS and create a little hill up to the tree, if extra height is needed. the cork will have holes in it where the FF can escape into the display area. the holes will be disguised on the outside with plants and/or moss.

-mount a cork tube or driftwood to the back of the viv. the tube would double for mounting broms, and as an elevated hide. more driftwood would be my preferance, but i cant seem to find a good piece i like, for that application.

-place hoses for water feature(s) in desired location(s). im thinking a small trickle of water (airline tubing?) coming from the base of the wood on the left down to the pond, lined with small river stones. and, a small trickle over the root into the pond.

-cut and place cross stitch grid on crate

-spray in GS to form background around cork and driftwood. i will also mold my trickling river out of great stuff at this point, and have some planter baskets in the back wall (where i dont have the option to mount to wood).

-cover the back wall with brown silicone and some type of cover. im looking for reccomendations on this. id like to use some of the material i allready have, but dont want to put something that will rot out or look real bad.

-cover the river with black silicone and stones. at this point i will make sure my river will not let too much (hopefully none) water spill into the soil.

-fill in the rest of the land section with a soil mix. im thinking sphagnum and peat, but am also taking reccomendations on this. i will be covering the section under the driftwood with leaf litter, and leaving the rest bare, with saliganilla (sp?) or other ground cover planted. in front of the false bottom (where there is no water) i will fill in with stones. i will blend this into the soil section, and prolly leave a portion a barely above water level, to stay damp. i have some java moss to plant here. 

-dry fit some broms (i am about to place an order from some one here on DB, and have some brom pups that i will tranfer over) and other plants to get perfect locations. once im comfortable with plant placement, i will drill holes in the wood to place the broms into. now arrises a Q. should i plant creeping fig in a planter box on the back wall, in the soil, or just place clippings on the back wall in strategic locations? i will be ordering the varigated and common versions. i may have enough to do all three, but what is ideal?

-drill holes in wood, to mount broms to.

-place broms and terrestial plants. 

-build insert for lid. i have a glass lid, but want to put something on the front to releas some himidity, for viewing purposes. im still not sure what i will do here, but i want it to be escaper proof for FF ans frogs. 

-seed with springtails. i need guidance here. i have a springtail cuture running, but am not sure the best way to get them into the tank and breeding.

-wait until ideal temp for shipping of azureaus, as i have smoeone here im going to purchase a mated pair of adults from.


thanks for taking the time to read some or all of this, hopefully the long description of plans (that will prolly change multiple times) did not deter any one from following this project along.

i plan to take tons of pics, and will gladly take requests for pics during certain stages or parts of the project. again i am trying to help out future viv builders and get some constructive crtiticism on my methods.

here is what i have so far......









a 29 gallon tank that doesnt leak (with 6" of water anyways) 

after reading my post a few questions arose:

anyone used artillery fern? 

would this grow up my cork tree? 

would it be too much to add with the creeping fig? 

what other plants do you reccomend for ground cover, and color?

with having multiple locations for egg deposit (trickling water on stones and wood, and wet moss as well as brom axis) should i add a place to deposit eggs? im not relly trying to breed these guys and would like to let it happen naturally if its going to. it would sure be a bonus! if im going to add something, now is the time. i dont want anything visible, so id want it to be easy to hide.

thanks again for helping, following along or just reading.

Landon


----------



## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Sounds very good. I also like to have things planned out before I begin construction, something jsut doesn't sit well with me when I rush into something and go along without a destination. By taking lots of pictures, you will be hleping out we members when we start more tanks and future ones looking for ideas.


----------



## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Artillery plant, pilea microphylla, has nice lime green leaves and is a nice plant. But it shoots spores up into the air and each one starts a new plant. It will quickly cover the viv. I had some in my leuc tank and it made a nice forest. It looked nice but pretty much took over all the other plants.


----------



## Guest (Jan 15, 2005)

thats exactly why im doing it Derek.  i like to plan mine out too. i even did a sketch of how i want to lay it out. i would post a pic of it, but i dont want to embarass myself. :lol: im no artist 

thanks for the info on the artillery geckguy. i will steer clear of that one for this viv. i may try it out in my paludarium, as pothos have taken over but im about to remove them.



i have cleaned the tank out completely. will have a pic in the am, of clean tank and all of my materials. 

Landon


----------



## Guest (Jan 15, 2005)

well its still in the pretty boring stages but hres a few of last nights pics

this one is of the malaysian root from my planted tank, that will be stolen for this viv








it has a good growth of java on it, that i hope i dont loose. i may use the coconut shemm in front of it also.....havent decided if there will be room.

this is a pic of the clean aquarium, and most of the supplies









and this is my sketch to give you a visual idea of what id like to do, even though i didnt want to share my drawing (non)skillz


----------



## Guest (Jan 15, 2005)

the fun stuff should start tommorrow. i want to get the black silicone and false bottom in tonight, so it will be dry tommorow, but today is my moms 50th B-day, so my wife and i are taking her and my father out to dinner tonight. i may be able to make something happen though 

Landon


----------



## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Haha, I do the same with the sketches, I have so many pieces of paper and crap laying on this computer desk that I have to push them out of the way to access the mouse. Ben Green told me of the wonderful invention called a spiral notebook, so I got quite a few for christmas, so it's a bit more organized.


----------



## Guest (Jan 16, 2005)

Derek Benson said:


> Haha, I do the same with the sketches, I have so many pieces of paper and crap laying on this computer desk that I have to push them out of the way to access the mouse. Ben Green told me of the wonderful invention called a spiral notebook, so I got quite a few for christmas, so it's a bit more organized.


:lol: me too, but in this pic i ccropped the spirals out of the bottom. some how (*cough*my wife) they always get ripped out though, and i find them all over the house 


*update*
late last night i got the sides coated. i also got the false bottom in, and lined with GS. i will try and get the GS coated with silicone, and may get it coated with the gravel. i have a lot to do today (including some reef maintenance), so i dont know how much i will get done, but i will have progress pics tommorow when i get to work and can upload them.

Lanodn


----------



## Guest (Jan 17, 2005)

*pic update*

here the viv is after coating the side walls with black silicone and putting in the false bottom. i used 2" risers.









here is the beggining of coating the GS with black silicone. i will put on another coat and add river stones (small) to the front of the GS.









i have a question about this though. do i *have* to coat the GS *100%* for it to be safe for the frogs? it will be totally cured before adding water to it. the water section will be very small and i dont know how much the frogs will "hang out" in there, but if i end up with running water, that will be my source water. thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: pic update*



2mnytnx said:


> i have a question about this though. do i *have* to coat the GS *100%* for it to be safe for the frogs? it will be totally cured before adding water to it. the water section will be very small and i dont know how much the frogs will "hang out" in there, but if i end up with running water, that will be my source water. thanks in advance for the help.


still have this question....any help would be appreciated. ill search the parts section agaiin, but ive allready found mixed reviews.

heres the updated pics, after mounting my wood to the back, and coating one side and some of the back with GS. i would have a lot more done, but my GS was practically frozen and was real hard to deal with.


----------



## joker555 (Jan 8, 2005)

Great Stuff, once cured, is *completely* harmless. If anything, you will want to cover it up becuase it looks unnatural. There was some argument in the past when the idea first came up about the safety of GS in vivs, but it has been time proven that it is harmless. 

Dustin


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2005)

joker555 said:


> Great Stuff, once cured, is *completely* harmless. If anything, you will want to cover it up becuase it looks unnatural. There was some argument in the past when the idea first came up about the safety of GS in vivs, but it has been time proven that it is harmless.
> 
> Dustin


Dustin, 
i am going to cover all visible GS, but was worried about the stuff exposed under the false bottom. thanks for the reply, and info.

Landon


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2005)

oops double post


----------



## joker555 (Jan 8, 2005)

> Dustin,
> i am going to cover all visible GS, but was worried about the stuff exposed under the false bottom. thanks for the reply, and info.


Landon,
Again, I wouldn't worry about bare GS being exposed to the water as I have had GS seep through the eggcrate of one of my tanks that has a water feature and there seems to be no problems since the 1 1/2 years its been up. Nice step-by-step pics.

Dustin


----------



## Guest (Jan 20, 2005)

TY


----------



## Guest (Feb 21, 2005)

*update, finally*

well i havent had time to mess with this project for a while. then all of a sudden my plants from POTT came in. i "had" to get to work on it this weekend. i placed my pump and hose to my water features. i have the tree mounted in the corner (to hide and access the pump). and i have most of the back covered and planters mounted. i used old pill cases from my GMa for the planters. i hope this wont be a drainnage problem later. here are the pics 

left side - planter between protruding roots









right side - tree and planters









close-up of water outlet









and a full shot - you can see the "river" feature starting to be formwed with GS. i will get this finished tonight along with the basic shape of the water fall.









for the "river" i have some tubing running beneath the GS that will be fed by my one circulation pump.


----------



## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

Just guessing that you don't plan on having a whole lot of soil substrate. Right? Looks cool though. Get to work on it! :wink: 
Mike


----------



## Guest (Feb 21, 2005)

Dunner97074 said:


> Just guessing that you don't plan on having a whole lot of soil substrate. Right? Looks cool though. Get to work on it! :wink:
> Mike


Mike, i plan to have a thin layer of pea gravel (only because the water level will be just about at the top of the FB) with a mixture of sphagnum and peat over that. then i may try some of this moss from T & C ( http://home.att.net/~a.j.calisi/moss.html ) on top of that. ive had good luck with this before, but i dont really want the totally green look in this tank. i got some nice colorful broms from Ken at POTT, so the green may be ok. it all depends on how brown the backwall ends up. ive never used the GS covered with coco-peat so im not sure how how it will turn out. all my plants are broms though and will be suspended off of the substrate any how, with the exception of creeping fig, which i understand will have no trouble in whatever substrate i choose :wink: thanks for the heads up and hopefully ill have time over the next week to complete this project....


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I just did the great stuff background in my 30. It came out good, I guess. One suggestion is to use a lot of silicone to make sure you cover everything. Good luck.


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

The main problem i found when i did my 115gl silicone/coco background was misses spots where the coco didn't stick. This can be fixed by making sure to pack the coco down. When putting on the coco on the silicone, make sure to press it in everywhere as hard as you can. This will minimized having to fix spots where the silicone comes through.

Luke


----------



## Guest (Feb 21, 2005)

im using the brown GE II silicone, so if i miss some small spots it shouldnt be the worst thing. i do plan on using a heap of silicone and coco-peat to try and minimize any missed spots. after reading numerous posts i am sure its a neccesity to dry the coco and press it in as good as possible.

thanks to everyone for the feedback!!


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I had some dry over time, but I also cooked some to speed up the process. I used the brown also.


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Same here. Used the brown silicone II. I backed the coco in the oven in several batches. Just make sure to press it in hard. Spots i didn't press in, it didn't stick too well and you can see the silicone. It's not that the brown silicone stands out against the coco, it's that ligth bounces off of it and makes it look shiny.

Luke


----------



## Guest (Feb 21, 2005)

Greg, do you have any pics of your finished product?.....Luke?


----------



## Guest (Feb 22, 2005)

I used it on my 30 as well and like youve realized making sure it is completly dry is a neccessity. I used brown GE II as well and s little black on the sides...ive done this before on my 15 designer but it didnt come out as nice as this one...make sure you do it in sections and be patient itll take a few days to do it all, letting it dry then reapplying and patching. Be patient. Here are some pics of my almost finished 30 with almost no white spot (you cant even see them with out looking very closely....










this pic looks to have a lot of white spots but the ones at the bottom under the large log are peices of perilite from the peat moss... as for the others some are white spots and some are just the way the pic looks


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

I have a bunch of pics of the whole process here.

Luke


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

> Greg, do you have any pics of your finished product?.....Luke?


I took pics of the process and I have them on my camera, but I don't know if my USB is active. I am going to get them burnt onto a CD at Target and put them on that way. Possibly this weekend I will.


----------



## Blort (Feb 5, 2005)

Darks!de said:


> I have a bunch of pics of the whole process here.
> 
> Luke


The Skywalker pic is priceless


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2005)

reflex - thanks for the pics. ive been following the thread on your tank and its looking real good.

Greg - looking forward to seeing your project 

Luke - i took a look at your gallery but where is the "full" shot? i got some good ideas from your tank. it looks great!! cant wait til i get a BIG tank for PDFs.

Blort - the Skywalker pic *IS* priceless. :lol:


thanks again for the responses.......update to follow......


----------



## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Yeah, it WAS done. Then my pump must have gotten clogged so my waterfall is not functioning. It lasted a whole day. Very disappointing, so I have to decide if I should just scrap it, or try and fix it. I may just scrap it and add a nice brom. After all the work and trouble I had on that fall, it sucks to get rid of it.


----------



## Guest (Feb 23, 2005)

*UPDATE*

i didnt get much done last night. GS takes too long to dry when its cold out :? 

i got two more planters added to the water fall area as well as filling in the area around the smaller piece of cork tube, and the actual waterfall. i should be able to begin shaping it this afternoon, but i do need to add more GS to cover the new planters.









i also raised the river walls a bit, so i can have a little deeper substrate. i can have about 2 1/2" inches left of the river and up to 4" on the right. that should be plenty.










and one more full shot too get an overview.












does any one see a problem with using sphagnum peat to cover the back wall, in place of coco-peat?


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

What a mess! LOL, looks good, keep working on it! :evil: It's not going to build itself. Can't wait for some more pics.

Luke


----------



## Guest (Mar 6, 2005)

ok so i have to be the biggest slacker on DB. im getting close to needing this ready for frogs so i should be getting a lot done over the next few days (weeks months :lol: ) i know ive allready said that before. yesterday i took the time to get some work done. as far as GS goes i should be done. i took a pic of the back and one of the tank laying down. it really shows the depth of the tank. you can also see my planters in the pics. i have places for 9 bromeliads and would like to make one more. i dont have ay room for any terestial plants but i need to figure out some sort of ground cover. im open to suggestions here.

top









back


----------



## Guest (Mar 10, 2005)

Its starting to take shape....please keep us posted with more pictures of your project. What are u planning to house in this tank (sorry I'm kinda lazy to read all three pgs).  

Roger


----------



## Guest (Mar 11, 2005)

Roger, im hoping to house a pair of azureus adults in this viv. ive got a lead on a pair from a user on this board. ill probably have to wait until may or so to get them shipped, unless the weather starts warming up real fast. :roll:


----------



## Guest (May 16, 2005)

well 2 months and i didnt hit a lick at a snake......

...until this weekend

i got a bunch done this weekend, IMO.

i got a few coats of silicone on the background









i put black silicone on the water fall, and another nice thick coat of brown on the back. i also fitted some pieces of eggcrate to cover with silicone and gravel. they will keep anything from accessing the underside of the false bottom. 

















i detailed in and around my planters.









and put a lot more into sealing the river feature.









this week i plan to add stone to the river and water fall, and complete the background. this should not be out of reach.......:roll:

my deal for frogs fell through so i will be trying to decide what to get. also, i ended up putting all of my plants from POTT into my 110 gallon pludarium (which ive been working on in place of this 29) so ill need to get some new plants also....


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2005)

Are you going to leave the brown silicone or are you putting coco stuff on it?
Brooks


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> Are you going to leave the brown silicone or are you putting coco stuff on it?
> Brooks


ive had trouble finding the coco bark. i got one brick of it once when i ordered plants online. i tried to use it, but the bucket i was drying it in got turned over by my cats :roll: 

im just going to use sphagnum peat in its place and see how that goes. i did a small area tonight to test it. if it looks decent tommorrow i will proceed :mrgreen:


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2005)

I have a 3'x3'x4 1/2' terrarium to do and it needs to look good. I will use your idea, so let me know if the sphagnum works. I will have lamasi and terribilis's in it. Also what do think about sticking plants right into the foam.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> I have a 3'x3'x4 1/2' terrarium to do and it needs to look good. I will use your idea, so let me know if the sphagnum works. I will have lamasi and terribilis's in it. Also what do think about sticking plants right into the foam.
> Brooks


i thought about just shoving the plants roots into the foam, i also thought about moldinh planters out of the foam. i just didnt know how hard the great stuff would be whe hardened. i tryed the molding trick, and i think it would work in your viv. mine was just too small and it took a lot of foam to get things like i liked them.

i opted to use pill cases and a few small pots i got with mini-broms at Wal-Mart. i just sprayed a little foam, let it set for a moment, then pressed the planter into it. i would hold it in place for a moment or two (long enough for it to be stuck there). then i would spray more foam around the outside. these type planters worked out really nice. they were easy to detail around, and im sure will create a nice planter for broms. i plan to fill them with sphagnum moss to help hold the plants in place and give them a rooting substrate. 

you could use any small plastic container for this. i think condiment cups, film canisters, and many other things cold be substituted for the pill cases. i just happened to see small plastic bag full of the pill cases in my grandmothers garage, that she was throwing out.

you can see the orange in the shots above, but here is one that shows a couple a little better.









HTH


----------



## Guest (May 19, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> I will use your idea, so let me know if the sphagnum works.
> Brooks


Brooks, i dont hav any pics yet, but the sphagnum peat worked fine, as far as i can tell. its a little darker than the coco i see most people use, but i think the plants will really look vivid with this as a back ground. it also blended with the cork bark better than i think coco would have.

good luck with yours!


----------



## Guest (May 23, 2005)

my server has been down so i couldnt post my pics here. i got quite a bit done over the last week, and im pretty much done with the consrtuction portion.

here are a few pics of the coated background.

i did a section with a small amount of silicone and the dust from the peat.









and i did most of the rest with a lot of silicone and a lot of peat.









i like the over all look of the sections with more coverage. 








but im debating on leaving the less attractive area like it is just for variation.

heres the detail work around a couple of planters and the cork tree. i have a little patching i could do, but i think im going to stuff some sphagnum moss into the areas where i missed. this should add even more variation of the back ground, and add some lighter spots.

























and heres a poor full tank shot. the peat dust was still on the front glass, so its just for a generalization of color.









i also did quite a bit of work to the river and water fall over the weekend i will be uploading pics to the CPU over the next hour and will have them posted shortly (pending no interuptions at work )


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Nice progress...just one thing to add, make sure that you make some kind of drainage for the plastic planters so that water doesnt get trapped in there and drown the plants...maybe you could drill them...

Luke


----------



## Guest (May 23, 2005)

Darks!de said:


> Nice progress...just one thing to add, make sure that you make some kind of drainage for the plastic planters so that water doesnt get trapped in there and drown the plants...maybe you could drill them...
> 
> Luke


thanks Luke. i thought of this, but wanst sure wether it was neccesary or not. it will be easy enough to drill the ones that arent. some are actual small flowerpots so they allready have drainage, but ill drill some 1/8" holes in the others.

many pics in the post to follow ....after i get some lunch though....


----------



## Iheartdarts (Mar 3, 2005)

It's looking great! Can't wait to see it when it's all done.


-=Dave Tower=-


----------



## Guest (May 23, 2005)

thanks Dave  i cant wait to see it all done too!


i used black smooth river stones from Home Depot for my river and waterfall. i boiled them to get any oils off, and i highly reccomend this to any one using these decorative stones. there was a ton of oil that came off of them. i would fill the pot, boil it down then drain the water out. this is when i saw the oil pouring out. it would take about 5-7 times for each bag of rocks before i couldnt see any more oil. i would boil then twice more after not seeing the oil. it took only an hour or so to boil each batch, which isnt too bad considering i was accomplishing other tasks while they were boiling.

here is my river!








dont pay attention to hte brown silicone on the front galss 









and here is the waterfall.









im really happy with the way the river came out. i think it will look really natural once i place the soil and moss in. i plan to have the moss growing right up to the water barrier and will place a few loose stones around the viv.

the water fall, im not as proud of. i think it looks good, but not exactly what i wanted. after looking at the black silicone for a few weeks it kind of grew on me. i thought going into the construction of the waterfall, that i would leave it mostly silicone and add a few pieces of the black stone to accent. the silicone is much more glossy than the stone, so it stands out more than the stone (and more than i thought it would). i saw this about half way through so i added more stone. i cant fill in all the gaps because of poor planning (or switching the plan :roll: ) and not leaving enough space between every stone. i kind of think it looks good with the large gaps, and i hope once the waterfall is running it will give the stones a more glossy appearance, and blend them together better. i still need to add a few more stones though, and i may try and fill in as much as possible when i do this.

any thoughts?

here is the over all look without my barrier (for closing off the false bottom), and without the piece of wood in the water section.
















from the top










personally, i think its going to look great after its done, and i think its about the best thing ive ever constructed (ill see if i still agree with this once the waterfall is complete ).


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Awesome, i can't wait to see it with the substrate in. What you could do is just dump some aquarium sand or fine gravel amongst the rocks on the waterfall...that should cover up most of the silicone.

Luke


----------



## Guest (May 23, 2005)

Darks!de said:


> Awesome, i can't wait to see it with the substrate in. What you could do is just dump some aquarium sand or fine gravel amongst the rocks on the waterfall...that should cover up most of the silicone.
> 
> Luke


thats a good idea. i was planning on using a smaller grade gravel for the water section any way. this way i can use the watefall to blend them together without eliminating my large gaps. the gravel in between will work out just about perfect. i may lay a few loose into the river also, to give it a blended look. i think this is going to turn out cool. 

i should have the substrate in within a day or so, all but the moss. ill post pics when i get there.


----------



## Guest (May 23, 2005)

Thanks for taking the time to post your progress. I just sat through my lunch to read it all. I can't wait to see how it turns out. 

I recently got my first two frogs. I have them in a very simple viv here at work - my little piece of nature in an otherwise dark and steril computer environment. The plants and frogs are growing like gangbusters. The moss is the only thing that is languishing a bit.

Anyway. I've really been enjoying other peoples set-ups, there are some great approaches. Thanks for the tutorial, I'm learning a lot.


----------



## Iheartdarts (Mar 3, 2005)

I wish I could keep frogs here at work. If I ever even tried to have a Beta on my desk I bet I'd be hunt down and shot.

And yes, also similar to your typical "Office Space" environment.

-DT


----------



## Guest (May 24, 2005)

Nate, i did this to try and help people in the future, and to get help along the way. im glad it has been of interest for some, because i have definatly got some good reccomendations out of this thread.


----------



## Guest (May 25, 2005)

Looking good, when are we going to see some pics of it with the plants?  
Brooks


----------



## Guest (May 25, 2005)

MG, im thinking of ordering online in the next few days. im waiting a reply from the last person i biught broms from in hopes he can put me together a red package. if its at all posibble i should be ordering real soon.

as far as the substrate goes. itll prolly be tommorrow (if the gravel that comes in to the pet store looks decent). im thinking that with the black stones i want to do darker gravel color, so the water features blend in together.


----------



## Guest (May 25, 2005)

If the guy doesn't get back to you try Harry at cloud jungle - he could put you together a nice red package. What other plants are you putting in there - epiphtic vines, tall plants what? A lot of people say don't use peat because it doesn't stick real well, how did yours do?
Brooks


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

I agree...Harry is really good.

Luke


----------



## Guest (May 26, 2005)

MG, i cant tell you what the longevity of the peat is going to be. as for now it looks good where i used a lot of silicon and a lot of peat. where i tried to use limited silicoe and just the peat dust, its a little lacking. im going to add some silicone and more peat to hose areas if i can get to HD before i get my plants. i think i should be able to get by there this weekend, and finish to project totally (except plants).

i dont know much about plants though. i havent had very good luck with much else besides bromeiads and pothos. id like to get some creeping plants, but not sure what. i definatly dont want pothos, common philodendrum, or creeping fig. id like to have something a little different than the total norm, but dont know what will work well.

im looking at cloud jungle right now. i will post a list of things i like at some point today for reccomendations.

any one have any ideas as to what they would plant?

i was thinking some type(s) of creeping plants, with some red or red/green broms on the back wall. i was thinking pepermonia (sp?) or begonia for the right front and a fern or ferns on the left (under the root from the back). i dont really have any experience with anything but the broms so what do you all think?


----------



## Guest (May 26, 2005)

Since you think that you not very good at plants, email harry and tell him what size your tank is, humitity and things like that and he will put you together a nice package with some common and very rare plants - but non you see everyday. Also try Deven at terra5designs, he can do the same thing. Your tank looks to good to not have that many plants, so tell harry or Deven you want about 15-20 plants to go into it (not including broms).
Brooks


----------



## Guest (May 26, 2005)

thanks Brooks. thats a good idea i have talked via email with Devin before and he was really nice. i will shout him a line, and maybe Harry also. in looking at Harry's website i see tons of interesting things, but he doesnt have care for every one (not hard to believe looking at his selection).

i think its becomiing just too much to go through. i will go the email route.


----------



## Guest (May 26, 2005)

When and if you decide to email them tell them you need lots of epiphytes and terrestrial ferns. They will know what will fit. I have done that many time - Deven is making me a set with 10 plants and a fake buttress root now.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (May 31, 2005)

thanks for the info Brooks. i have talked with Devin before so im giving him thenext shot at the package. we have been in contact allready, and im trying to give him an idea of what i want. i guess its hard because im just not sure. i gave him the option of just picking some things out. ill be like a kid a christmas when the package comes (if he decides to seel it to me like that).


any way i finished the background, finished the water fall and river. well i finished everyhting but the planting 

i stole some broms from my 110, and broke a few out of storage (10 gallon grow out). i still plan on replaceing a few of them with nicer ones though (thats why they were in storage  they arent my favorites). none the less its kind of planted.

it turned out great, IMO. i feel really good about it because my wife even let me put it in our foyer. most of my tanks have to be kept in my home office.

well here we go with the pics!

the river

















up left









up center









full on!


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Mmmmm...very very cool, it took shape very nicely, I like the water and how it has a "shore". Just need some more plants and frogs, what are you putting in there?

Luke


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2005)

Wow, that looks great - don't take out the broms you have because the more plants the better. I like the way the river and waterfall turned out. What types of things did you ask Deven for, and when is he shipping them to you.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2005)

Luke thanks. i really want some vents. i had been thinking of putting a small group in my 110, but i think im going to put them in here. ive been thinking, and i dont really have a chance at raising any tads from the other tank (with the fish and all). i think if i keep them in here i may have a chance at getting some tads/froglets. they seem to be amazing little frogs, and id like to do my part to add to the captive population, as opposed to just keeping them as a display item.

Brooks, Devin was out on business until saturday. he emailed me to let me know and then got back with me over the weekend. he reccomended some small forms of begonia, peperomia, and seleganila (sp?). i told him that i basically wanted creeping plants for back wall cover, terrrestial plants (that can handle the wet conditions), moss, and 3-4 unique (flowering or colored) broms. basically what im hoping for is him to send me a suprise package of plants. im not really picky, and just want some unique (but hardy) plants. he also may set me up with a little more substrate. all i have in there is a coco fiber, sphagnum, and peat moss mixture. he is supposed to get back with me with a full oufit price. if the price isnt too high, then ill give it a whirl. i dont mind spending the $$ for a nice plant set up, but i dont want my wife flipping out over it  we'll see how it is when he gets back to me. i really hope he has some nice moss and some type of fern that will do well. i think some fluff will make it look good.


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2005)

I don't know if he will have moss, I have never asked him. Thanks for keeping this updated and repling so much.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2005)

i wasnt sure about the moss either. i may have to order from some where else, or do without. i was going to see what types of plants he sent first. if there is good ground cover from the ferns and such, then moss would be a waste.

as far as keeping the thread up to date, no problem. im just glad people are interested in following along. i was very lucky to get some good reccomendations as i went along, so i plan on doing this with every set up i do. ive learned a lot from other journals, but i think the real time log is the most helpful. ill be able to come back and read this when i set my next one up, and all the reccomendations and problems will be addressed before i start


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2005)

i just remmebered i wanted to ask about something.

what do you guys use for lids. i have a coralife 65w fixture over the tank. it lights it very well with the lid off, but the plastic hinge on the lid is right in the middle and creates a bad shadow. 

also, there is no condensation on the glass, but humididty is around 70-75% with no misting. 

right now i have the glass lid, but nothing in front or behind it. i was planning on using a small screen insert in front, but with humididty staying low, and the front galss isnt foggin, im thinking i may just cut a piece of acrylic to put behind it. this still doesnt solve my shadow problem though :roll:

suggestions?


----------



## Iheartdarts (Mar 3, 2005)

It's really looking great. Nice job!

I've had my tank all foamed up and ready to put the background and substrate in for a couple weeks now but I haven't had any time to finish it.....grrrr.

I'll try to finish mine this weekend.

-Dave


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2005)

Dave, as you can see i started this back in January :lol: if you are only two weeks in you are still going a lot faster than i 



looking back, i noticed something pretty cool. check out this comparison.

my original sketch (posted on first page)









and what ive achieved so far










with the exception of talking myself out of artillery fern and creeping fig, i think i did pretty well at creating the original vision.


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2005)

I don't know if you would be able to, but you could move your lights to the front. That should (if you can) take away the shadow. I haven't even started on my big tank yet, lol.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2005)

Landon, That's looking nice 8)


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> I don't know if you would be able to, but you could move your lights to the front. That should (if you can) take away the shadow. I haven't even started on my big tank yet, lol.
> Brooks


i tried moving them around quite a bit last night, but couldnt find nything ideal. putting them at the very front eliminated the shadow from the hinge, but the left the top of the back wall very shaded. 

i built the screen for in front of the lid, and it turned out real well. i wasnt too sure how it was going to turn out with just a 1/2" screen area. i think im going to get a couple of pieces of glass cut to fit perfectly and eliminate the hinge. this may take some fiddling as i dont want to let all the FF roam free 






TimmyG said:


> Landon, That's looking nice 8)


thanks. what are you doing here?


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2005)

Yea, see with most of my tanks I do 2 lights, one in front and one in back. Did Deven get back to you?
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2005)

ive got a dual bulb light also, but i was thinking that 130w may be too much. this is my first viv with PC so i was kind of playing it by ear. i may switch over to dual NO lights though to eliminate this problem. i may try out dual PCs for a bit and see what the heat is like. i dont have another 6700k bulb though.....hmmmm......i dont hink a 10000k and a 6700k would look bad. well at least im not pressed to get it done for frogs. i have plenty of time to experiment.

i did talk to Devin last night, for close to an hour probably. he is a very nice guy and it sounds like he has got a great thing going with his business. he should be sending me a quote today for the outfit. hes getting together some ferns creeping plants a couple terrestials, and moss. 

im also going to redo my substrate based on some advice he gave. what i put in was mainly just too see how wet it would be and to see what type of contour i would like. now i have an idea of a substrate that should drain very well and keep a proper pH.


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2005)

2mnytnx said:


> TimmyG said:
> 
> 
> > Landon, That's looking nice 8)
> ...



Just doing a little window shopping 8) 
and trying to get someideas for mine  

I knew when I saw a 5 page thread and "2mnytnx" It was you :lol: 

This may sound like a stupid guestion, BUT,
What is the differance between a viv. and a pal.?

Timmy


----------



## Guest (Jun 2, 2005)

TimmyG said:


> Just doing a little window shopping 8)
> and trying to get some ideas for mine
> 
> I knew when I saw a 5 page thread and "2mnytnx" It was you :lol:
> ...


this *is* the place for ideas.

:lol: thats funny.

its debatable, as far as the real definition. IMO, its the amount of water. a vivarium is a housing for plants and animals. you can definatly have water in the viv and still consider it a viv. 

i think it becomes a paludarium when more water is involved. i read a web site way back when i first started that said a paludarium was an enclosed system that had (close to) equal parts land water and air. IMO, a standard viv doesnt have near enough water to be considered an equal part.

any ways glad you made it over to this site. the people here are great with ideas. so post any questions you come up with for yours, and definatly check out the mebers gallery for picture ideas.


----------



## Guest (Jun 3, 2005)

I am working on a 20 long vert and am doing your idea with the peat. When I started a lot came off - like normal, but I seem the like it better than coco fiber in a way.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 3, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> I am working on a 20 long vert and am doing your idea with the peat. When I started a lot came off - like normal, but I seem the like it better than coco fiber in a way.
> Brooks


ive never used anything else, so i have nothing to compare it to. i do like the peat look. it seems darker than regular coco looks in pictures (ive never seen it in person). i liked it better when i used lots of silicone and lots of peat. i do mean *LOTS!* it seemed to stick better that way. 

i have also misted the tank very heavily every night to see if it falls off or anything. the misting does make the spots i missed stand out (the silicone is really reflective when wet), but its not falling off with water running down it or anything. i didnt know what to expect, but turned out pleased :8



ill be replacing the soil tonight. ill post a pic if it looks any different than now.


----------



## Guest (Jun 3, 2005)

Did you get the new soil from deven, and just wondering hows the plants coming. I really want to see what this looks like.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 4, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> Did you get the new soil from deven, and just wondering hows the plants coming. I really want to see what this looks like.
> Brooks


no, the new soil is a mixture of stuff i had in my garage. i got the water a little dirty so i didnt take any pics, but ill get some up monday. 

i used a mixture of organic top soil, peat moss, and sand/tiny gravel, for the soil. i should have a balanced pH and good drainage with this mixture, according to Devin. 

i didnt get the email i was expecting from him. im not real sure whats going on with the plants and moss now. ill give him the weekend and maybe try some one else out if he doesnt reply by monday. when i talked to him on wednesday, he said he had just finished a zoo habitat, so maybe he is just gathering up plants. we'll see in the next few days.

I really want to see what this looks like too! :roll:


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2005)

Well Landon,
I've made up my mind, with a little help from James 8) 
He gave me his old 90gal today  
So now I have to decide what to do.
I'm want to do something like your paludarium.
I'll start a thread with my ideas and let everyone
offer up suggestions and ideas.
Does anyone put salamanders in their paludariums?

Thanks for turning me on to this cool site 8) 

Timmy


----------



## Guest (Jun 6, 2005)

TimmyG said:


> He *gave* me his old 90gal today
> 
> Does anyone put salamanders in their paludariums?
> 
> ...


"gave" :!: :!: 

no kidding! thats a good deal. the 90 was my second choice, til i found out about the 110XH. 

there are people who set up tanks for salamanders. i guess it depends on what type you want, but i think most need cooler water and more rocky areas than darts. its cool and its been done. you could make a real neat rockscape with a large water feature. i saw one some where around the web that was set up like plataues with lucky bamboo bordering each of the different levels. he had emporer/crocodile newts in it.

no problem :mrgreen: 




well i talked to Deven a couple of times today (via email and tele). i should have a price tommorrow when i get back to my work email. it sound like he's setting me up a nice bundle with a few nice broms and a lot of nice terrestials and creepers. the thing that most impressed me was his description of the moss he is sending me. if it does as good as he thinks, i will never want to get rid of this set up 

ill let every one know tommorrow when i hear from him.

also, i should (if i can get my CPU working right) have pics of the substrate mix in place.


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2005)

What did he say it looked like, I might have toi get me some for my tank. I have him making a fake buttress root for my 37 gallon. They are some what pricey, but well worth it.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> What did he say it looked like, I might have toi get me some for my tank. I have him making a fake buttress root for my 37 gallon. They are some what pricey, but well worth it.
> Brooks


he said he was going to send 2 ferns, a few broms, a small species of peperomia, and he was checking to see what kind of creeping plants and begonias he had available. i was expecting an email to be here this morning after our conversation yesterday. i just sent him another email, so hopefully next time i hear from him, he has pricing for me.

where do you get your frogs? i need to start researching vendors to see who is going to have some vents in the near future (or now ).


----------



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

NOW


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2005)

Darks!de said:


> NOW


:lol: thanks i know. i have a 10 gallon QT set up for as soon as i can get some. i need to do a little more reasearch as to how many, but it seem that the vents are one of the few thumbs that can be kept in a small group. id like to get 4 if im not overcrowding. i think ill start a thread and get opinions on it.


----------



## Guest (Jun 7, 2005)

for those interested here is what the soil looks like.









i mixed it in a big bucket. i used 2 quarts of fine ground sphagnum peat, 1 quart of regular milled sphagnum peat, 2 quarts of organic top soil, and about 5 cups of black onyx sand, with a little bit of (smallest particles) flourite planting mix.

it looks a lot better than the sphagnum. heres a full shot after the dust settled from the top of the water surface. i also moved the rivers edge a little bit to the left, built the edge of the river all the way to the glass, and resloped the bottom of the water feature. I CANT WAIT TO GET PLANTS!!! :!: 











i have a few more things to do to get this viv ready for frogs. 

i ordered a few pieces of glass for the lid today. ive allready constructed a screen section for the front, but cracked my glass lid. im replacing it with two pieces cut to the exact size, so i dont have to use the plastic hinge. if i have to use a piece of packaging tape or something to FF proof it, it shouldnt be as bad as the dark colored hinge. i went ahead and got the back section of the lid drilled for misting nozzles. i dont know if ill ever hook an automated mister up, but ill have the option if i decide to.

i need to find out where i can get wax paper. i want to attach a bit to the top piece of glass, then silicone a thick layer between the top of the tree (cork tube at right of viv) and the glass. this way i will have a nice seal, but the glass wont be attached to the viv.

i cant think of anything else i need to do besides seed with springtails. now that i know i like the soil mixture i will prolly do that tonight or tommorrow, if my cuture is ready to be split.


----------



## Guest (Jun 13, 2005)

well im impatient and it cost me :lol:

i got a little impatient waiting for Deven's quote, so i went to the local tropicals shop last wednesday. i picked up a small plant or two. the guy there told me that Lowe's had just recieved a nice shipment of tropicals tht morning. so, i went by lowe's and got a few more  low and behold, while i was plant shopping Deven sent me the quote :roll: i really like the list that Deven sent and i think the tank will look a lot nicer with his selection than mine. i just moved a day gecko from a 10 vert (desperatly needs a make over) so i have a 37 that needs plants. once i get Deven's plants, ill move these over to the 37 tall for the gecko.

meanwhile im having a blast looking at all the hiding spots in this tank trying to figure out where froggies would hide 

to get an idea of the plants i got and to see what it looks like planted (i know some people {myself included} have been anxious) i took a few shots of it as is. 

now i can look at these photos and of the photos wth Devens plants (soon to come *crosses fingers*) and see if i made the right choice by going with his plants.

the list he sent me was very diverse with peperomias (multiple species) polypodiums, creepig begonias, alcosia, and a few terrestials that i am not familiar with. i really cant wait to see what i get. tonight i am to contact Deven by phone so we can finalize the order and get it in the mail!!

any way here are a couple of the shots with the tank like it sits.
looking from the top at an angle:
left









middle









right










and a full shot









crticise please


----------



## Guest (Jun 13, 2005)

You go though all of the trouble emailing him and it looks like crap 

just kidding    

I think it looks great, I would keep the fern and the small plants.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 14, 2005)

:lol: 


well, im not sure if any one is interested, but i hear the question of fogging all the time. 

to combat this, i built the smallest screen i could. i used the screen window replacement parts from HD. my screen section is about a 1/2 inch. the total insert is about 2". i measured out after getting it in place to see how much space was left. i got two pieces of glass cut to fit the remainder of the space. the front one is 5.5" making it easy to place a FF culture in without taking the screen out. i think the back section ended up being 4.5". 

here is what the lid ended up looking like

















i got another lid for my 37 at the same time, and the four pieces of glass were under $40. i could have got (2) 1/2" holes drilled in each for an extra $20. i can still take them back and get it done for $5 each. i dont know if ill ever hook up a misting system to either of the tanks, so i elected not to get any drilled. i would rather get another piece made (or drill these later) as opposed to having to cover the holes with tape.


*plant update* 
i talked with Deven last night. the finalized quote was here for me at work today, and im paypaling him some $$ as soon as i find out his paypal addy. *I SHOULD HAVE MY PLANTS BY THE END OF THE WEEK!!!! :!: :!: * sorry for yelling  can you tell im excited?


----------



## Guest (Jun 20, 2005)

What's up with your plants from Deven???? I don't mean to be a pain, but since I am getting some to I want to see what they ook like.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jun 20, 2005)

Mantella Guy said:


> What's up with your plants from Deven???? I don't mean to be a pain, but since I am getting some to I want to see what they ook like.
> Brooks


well things didnt work out like we planned. Deven ended up too busy at the beginning of last week to get my order out. he made me wait until today  i sent him the $$ this morning, and he should be sending them out today. i dont know what his regular practice is, but i guess i should get a shipping confirmation. if not they should be here in the next few days. ill post here if there are any updates. i havent wanted to post any updates because of lack of info, but im getting a little frustrated with this order. i have what i think are nice looking plants in there now......maybe i dont need to get "real plants" from Deven. hopefully now that he has some $$ in hand it will motivate him to get this order done and out of his way.

im curious to see how much color he gets into the plants without sending any broms. im thinking ill order a 6 brom package from Ken at POTT. he did me good on the last brom order. he said he could set me up with a red package. i really want to see what Deven comes up with first though.

ive been looking for my current plants in others vivs (here on DB) and i see a lot of people have the same pepermonia and calathea that i got from Lowe's. i think i will set the next one up using them and whatever leftovers i end up with from Deven.

well there's a bucnh of thoughtless rambling for you to ponder  hope i answered your question


----------



## Guest (Jun 29, 2005)

*BIG DAY!!!*

it was a big day for me in the frog world. i recieved to little eating machines  i recieved two vents from Erin and Dave at Ed's Fly Meat and they are beautiful. i didnt know what to expect, but their color and appetites are awesome. i have some pics uploaded to my CPU at work, but didnt get a chance to downsize and post them. 

also, this afternooon an unexpected suprise came.......*MY PLANTS!!* finally, the wait is over. i got a ton of peperomias and other creepers, a few nice clippings of an awesome fern, and a ton of odds and ends. Deven said he would send the moss out in the next few days. 

i got it planted, but my planting skills are a little lacking. it doesnt look as good as i want it too, but..............what can i do? ive got everything in their desired positions and hope everythng lives. this is really going to be a viv that doesnt look complete until it fills in. it looks like i just crammmed the plants in. its not as full as it was with the Lowes plants, so i like it a lot better. all of the plants are smaller varieties than the ones i had before, so they look much more proprtionate to the tank size.

i kept the calathea rose and added a few more appropriatly sized broms. the fern and peperomia werent doing too well, so i transplanted them into my day gecko's temp housing.

the plants are all i could have asked for, and the frogs have stolen my heart allready! i should have waited longer for the frogs, because i think my excitement about them toned down my excitement about the plants.

pics to follow in the morning.......the journal is almost complete [/b]


----------



## Guest (Jun 29, 2005)

Sounds cool Landon,
I can't wait to see the pics.

Timmy


BTW did you know that the reptile show will be in Cola. on July 16


----------



## Guest (Jun 29, 2005)

*FROGS and PLANTS!*

*frogs*









and 
*plants*


----------



## Guest (Jun 29, 2005)

actually i have a little better than cardboard pics 


























and for those who dont quite grasp the concept of thumbs (i didnt until yesterday)


----------



## Guest (Jun 29, 2005)

*the completed viv*

left side









right side









zoomed left









zoomed center









zoomed right









and a total shot


----------



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Looks fantastic. Your vents should have a blast in there. Very well done!


----------



## Guest (Jul 9, 2005)

I have been waiting for these pics   

Looks great, mine is almost done too.
Brooks


----------



## Guest (Jul 9, 2005)

thanks Josh!

Brooks, the tank looks way better in person. i have a few better shots ill try and post tom. work has been extra busy so i havent had much time to take pics or post here 

the plants are great. there are quite a few different species of creeping plants and the fern is awesome. there is begonia, pepromia, and a few others, along with the alcosia and polypodium. i like the splash of color the calathea adds, so i left it in there. 

i ve been kicking around the idea if getting small brom package from POTT and see if he could hook me up with some colorful broms. but first i want to see how the ones i put in there do. i had a few reds that didnt do so good under my NO light on the big tank. they grew and produced pups, but didnt hold their color real well. ive placed some of the pups in this tank in hopes that they will get their red back. if so i will be very happy with this set up 

you need to update your thread with some pics of your progress


----------



## droseraman (Jun 17, 2004)

very nice


----------



## Guest (Jul 10, 2005)

Hi,

Looks like a great effort. I tried doing something similar recently but i realized i didnt have the know how, nor the cash. Gotta crawl before i can walk, so i decided to just do what i can. But my real question to you is, where did you get the Melanophryniscus stelzneries? How did you care for them, and did you ever get them to breed? What kind of setup did you have for them? Finally, im sooooo sorry for you loss. I can't believe they all died. I hope you have good luck from now on.


----------



## Guest (Jul 10, 2005)

Thanks to both of you for the compliments.

Khamul1of9, i got the M. stelz from the local pet store. she says they are still almost always on their list. 

i kept them in a tank similar to my dart set ups with a thick drainage layer soil and moss. with reguard to tempurature/humidity i kept them pretty much at 70*/70%. i kept them in a tank with a screen lid partially covered with acrylic. i found that subdued lighting kept them out more, so i placd a fake aquarium plant under the light to give a lot more shadows. they were much more active once i did this. they seemed to enjoy the water feature also. i had a small bowl sunk into the substrate with some slate piled onto a small filter. the filter pumped the water up onto the slate. it didnt work very well as a waterfall, but the frogs did enjoy the wet stones. they would hide in between the slate pieces and hunt crickets in the 1" deep water. i had it midly planted with pothos, philos, one brom, and a small shefflera tree. i had a few pieces of wood and jungle pods to create hidng places. they would retreat quickly into the hides as soon as i would walk in the room, but would slowly creep back out knowing that i wasnt a danger, and could be bringing food. these were some of the most voraciuos frogs ive owned (besides the american toad, they are). 

LMK if i can answer any other questions for you. these were definatly a treat to have, and i may find room for another small group one day


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2005)

You know, that setup of yours is by far my favorite to look at, in a long time. It reminds me of when i was a young boy in Colombia, and I would play by small streams and rivers, and they would have high walls, filled with small streams trickling down their sides, and they were dark becuase of all the plants covering them. And I remember always poking my nose up into those bushes to see what goodies i would find. Until one day i found an ants nest. Well I never did that again. 

I've been trying to find someone who sells M. stelzneri since October. One petstore said they would have them in May, well that come and gone, and no M. stelzneri's. I guess they just dont come up to NYC anymore. I only saw them for sale once at Petland Discounts, a pet chain store up here. I got one, but it was sooo sick from the start, it only lived one or two nights. But never the less, i fell in love with them. I havent seen or even heard from them again, till you posted here.


----------



## Guest (Dec 15, 2005)

just wanted to revive the living dead on this thread :lol:

a pretty up-to-date shot of the viv. 









as we can see some of the plants have faired better than others. i lost a few of the creeping begonias and the polypodium isnt doing too hot. on the other hand the peperomis have needed to be prunned and trained extensively, and i had to take the calathea out because it was getting too big.

my frogs are real comfortable and have let me get a few decent pics. id like to share a few here.


----------



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Landon,

ask Dave and Erin for a commission, as your pics made me pre-order some vents from them at IAD. I like your setup better having let the plants dictate who belonged and who didn't.


----------



## Guest (Dec 15, 2005)

:lol:

i couldnt do that.....you could though 

they have provided me with quality insects for my entire stay in the herp hobby, so when i found out they had the frogs i was looking for, i had to give them a chance. i can definatly say im pleased as punch!

also, to make this a proper update, i have had no noticable breeding. after reading quite a bit here on this site, and plenty of internal debate, i decided to try out some film canisters. ive had them in for a week and i allready see a lot of action around them. 

for those of you who are worried about clogging up a display viv with canisters, take a second look at my pic. you cant see any at all! i have 6 strategically placed canisters in there at various angles and elevations. with some creative positioning you cant really see any of them from most of the viewing angles. only time will tell though if its good enough for the females


----------

