# Falsebottom vs Growstone with Clay ... Opinions?



## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Hey All ...
Just a question for those that have experience with growstones, or clay substrates ...

I was advised to use a false bottom with clay substrate to avoid the wicking that hydroton causes due to a possible shortening of clay life.

I was wondering if growstones wick water like hydroton does.

Building FB are a pain in the butt so wanted to explore some other options.

Thx.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Nick, you asked me if evaporation would not be causing the same thing as wicking, whether you used Hydroton or eggcrate. My reply.

Wicking is not evaporation. There are hydroponics systems designed around wicking. You can take a completely sealed, lower reservoir, so there can be NO evaporation. Drill a 1/2" hole in it, and insert a 1/2" cotton rope in it. Lead the other end of the rope up a couple of feet and coil it around the bottom of a flowerpot. Fill the flowerpot with dirt. The cotton rope will WICK the water up, from the reservoir, to the flowerpot, and moisten the dirt. This is a wicking based hydroponics system.
Now look at Hydroton. It is specifically designed to wick water upwards. This has absolutely nothing to do with evaporation. It allows you to build a hydroponics systems like this. Reservoir contains 1" of water. Pot with Hydroton sits in the inch of water. Roots of plant may still be 10" above the top of the water. Hydroton physically wicks the water up to the upper layers of Hydroton, and of course, the plants roots.
This is wicking.
Now the point you raise about evaporation will happen with both systems (Hydroton and eggcrate). The difference is that the hydroton system ALSO has wicking going on.
Eggcrate does not wick at all. It cannot absorb water in order to wick.

Another picture for you. Two bowls on the table, side by side. One is empty, one is full of water. Take a piece of eggcrate, soften it in the oven or with a blowtorch to bend it into a U shape. Put one end in the empty bowl and one end in the full bowl. Cover them both with plastic wrap to eliminate evaporation. Come back in a week. You will have one full bowl and one empty bowl, because it cannot wick.
Do the same thing, but with a cotton, or otherwise wickable cloth. Come back in a week and you will have two bowls, each one is half full of water.
Wicking. Not evaporation.

In the end, will the Hydrotons wicking speed the degradation of the clay? I don't know. I don't care to waste my time trying to figure that out. I have a method that works very well. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Hydroton, instead of a false bottom, will IMPROVE the system. There is evidence to suggest that it MAY hurt your clay's longevity. Therefor, my decision is made.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Yep I got your PM. Thx Doug.

But since neither of us know much about growstones bc we have no experience with it, im waiting to hear more about that product before I continue on with the rest of my false bottoms (god I hate them ... its like every ziptie is mocking me as I build it).


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Yes, I know you got it, but since you started the thread, I thought I would explain to anyone reading it, why my choice will always be eggcrate false bottom.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Nick, I do not have a definitive answer, however I do not THINK it will wick. However, because you are an awesome dude and I just bought a ton of growstones (which I will use either way), I am going to put some water in a bucket tonight, add growstones and see tomorrow morning if any wicking is taking place and report back to you.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

This may not be of much help. However, I have a false bottom in my large tank with a couple bags of growstones surrounding the false bottom. There is a water area in the center. I have not noticed a change in the water level since I added the water. 

If there has been any change it has been minimal. I have some small aquatic grass that I can use to mark the water level. The water originally just covered the top of it. The water is still pretty much at that point.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

therizman2 said:


> Nick, I do not have a definitive answer, however I do not THINK it will wick. However, because you are an awesome dude and I just bought a ton of growstones (which I will use either way), I am going to put some water in a bucket tonight, add growstones and see tomorrow morning if any wicking is taking place and report back to you.


Since you are going to do this ... it will make you just as awesome as me! 
Thanks Mike.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

are the "growstones" just a processed glass?? And what about the reticulated foam...I did test that and there was no wicking at all...2" thick black pad of foam...


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## us13fox (Jan 12, 2013)

Found this today figured it related to the discussion and might help Mike out with his experiment tonight 

YouTube


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

Looks like it wicks to me.


Sean


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Ok, after watching the video (thx Richard), im more confused. 
If hydroton doesnt absorb water, (based off the video), how does it wick?

Wouldn't it then be similar to a false bottom? 
(Bc it doesn't absorb water then the water would just evaporate away like it does in a FB ... right?)


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Gamble said:


> Ok, after watching the video (thx Richard), im more confused.
> If hydroton doesnt absorb water, (based off the video), how does it wick?


Capillary action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Capillary action, Nick. It doesn't truly absorb water, but the thousands of tiny holes in each piece of Hydroton, or LECA, basically suck up and transfer the water from one piece of LECA to the next, through capillary action.

Here is a link that explains capillary action quite nicely. Capillary action, from USGS Water-Science School

Here is a cut and paste about how LECA is made and about it's capillary action.

"Manufactured in Europe for quality and consistency LECA pebbles are a sterile ceramic that will not rot or decay. Their irregular shape "locks in" plant root's quickly. Absorbent, lightweight, non-degradable growing media that outperforms all other potting media.

LECA pebbles are made by heating small clay pellets to 2600F. At these temperatures the clay expands, developing tiny air spaces at the core and an extremely hard outer shell.

The hard ceramic shell promotes strong capillary action. Moisture is pulled up and absorbed into the hollow core to be by the plant's root system. The smooth outer shell minimizes salt buildup."


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Harpo said:


> Capillary action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Harpo beat me to it...but my link has a cooler picture!


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

So then based on that & the video ... you were correct Doug ... FB is the only option?
God I hate when you're right!


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

I use foam and don't have wicking problems.


Sean


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Gamble said:


> So then based on that & the video ... you were correct Doug ... FB is the only option?
> God I hate when you're right!


I still can't say that it is the ONLY option. I just believe it to be the best option. The capillary, wicking action of Hydroton is far from perfect, and is somewhat interrupted between particles. It will only wick water so high. It may or may not reduce the life of a good calcium bearing clay substrate. I haven't tested that and I have no plans to. I've already found what works well for me.
Somebody else may wish to test it further and may find that LECA works ok, or they may find that the clay turns to mush and it's usable life is reduced.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

heyduke said:


> I use foam and don't have wicking problems.
> 
> 
> Sean


With Clay substrate? 
Where do you get the foam?

Pls elaborate.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Well I am still going through with trying it... will see what happens by tomorrow. Pictures include measurement for reference so should be very easy to tell what happens.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Gamble I really respect your builds but if I could make a suggestion on what to use I would into matal. I use it and will never go back. It is safe for frogs and fish alike. Cheaper then hydroton, eggcrate, or growstones and helps keep an air layer.

You can PM me or Scott on the board as we both use this particular product


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

So... reporting back on my findings.

Growstones do take advantage of capillary action. I tried to get photos, but you couldnt really see it very well in any of them. However, stones that were dry last night were moist today. They dont feel moist when you pick them up, however there is definitely a color difference between the dry and wet when you look at them in person which would illustrate to me that they have moisture in them and are no longer dry as they are when removed from the bag.

In the end, I still think Growstones are an excellent choice for many people who choose to do a "typical" false bottom by using a media of some type. They are not strip mined as hydroton is, and they are a recycled product that is made in the USA.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks for the test, Mike. I have to agree, there is not a thing wrong with using Growstone, LECA, or Hydroton, with typical, dirt style subtrates, or with Turface substrates for that matter.
With a calcium bearing clay substrate, however, the additional wicking, through capillary action, may soften the clay more than we want it too. That could shorten it's effective life.
(Sorry Nick )


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

Just to add to what Pumilio said, more moisture in the substrate could cause leaching of the calcium out of the clay which would in the end defeat the purpose of spending the money on the clay substrate.


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