# Positive experience using Gnatrol



## liquidedna (Aug 2, 2019)

Greetings all
I just wanted to mention my positive experience using Gnatrol (a biological control [Bacillus thuringiensis] for fungus gnats).

I initially set my terrarium up about 4 months ago. Over the course of the following few weeks I added plants and seeded with dwarf white isopods and springtails. It was during this time fungus gnats emerged and became quite plentiful. I keep a lot of houseplants and generally do not have any gnats living in the pots. But I purchased terrarium plants from numerous greenhouses and no doubt they came in that way.

I used the gnatrol in a drenching spray and also added some to the terrarium's 1/2 inch or so of standing water. Within a couple weeks, the gnats disappeared. 

In my case, the gnatrol was effective and I would recommend it if you are experiencing gnat infestations. There are other considerations but it is a viable option.

Be well and stay safe.

P.S. Just wanted to add that I ordered way more than I will ever need so if anyone has a desire to try it, just let me know and I can send some your way. Gratis.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Interesting information. Thanks for posting. I was curious how long you waited for the fungus gnats to go away before using the Gnatrol. I have read on this board that gnats are common in the first few weeks of a new tank and that they will go away on their own eventually. I wonder if this could have happened eventually without the use of the Gnatrol. Sounds like a good option for persistent infestations, though. Were there any noticeable side effects? How specific is it to fungus gnats? Any chance it would take down fruit flies, too?

Mark


----------



## liquidedna (Aug 2, 2019)

Gnatrol is very specific to gnats and mosquitos. The bacterium does not affect other insects.

I set up the terrarium and everything was fine for more than a few weeks. I introduced a few new plants and the gnats must have hitched a ride because soon I had an infestation and it was getting progressively worse.

My only other experience with fungus gnats is with houseplants. The adult flies feed on fungus but they lay eggs in soil and the resulting larvae feed on plant roots. 

I read threads that mentioned gnats as a temporary nuisance but I wonder if that is because dart frogs will eat them! In houseplants, they will multiply unless you treat using an insecticide, glue trap or let the soil dry in between waterings.

In my case, I wasn't adding frogs right away so I used the gnatrol and the gnats were no more.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

It should be mentioned that B.t.i. (the bacterium in Gnatrol) has been shown to harm frogs:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0013935114003867

as well as springtails and other microfauna:

https://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/x93-287


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Good catch, SM.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> Good catch, SM.


I've researched this product before, and in doing so I've come to accept a certain small number of fungus gnats -- they get in my springtail and iso cultures. 

They're fine little bugs -- annoying, but completely harmless -- and I'm trying to be less of a speciesist about bugs.


----------



## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I've researched this product before, and in doing so I've come to accept a certain small number of fungus gnats -- they get in my springtail and iso cultures.
> 
> 
> 
> They're fine little bugs -- annoying, but completely harmless -- and I'm trying to be less of a speciesist about bugs.


Lol speciesist

Fungas gnats are annoying but harmless, my frogs seem to enjoy chasing them around. Perhaps too much....


----------



## Organics (Jan 17, 2020)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Lol speciesist
> 
> Fungas gnats are annoying but harmless, my frogs seem to enjoy chasing them around. Perhaps too much....


Agreed and same just last night watched one of my frogs chase a gnat around for 10 minutes. Think of it like environment enrichment they do at zoos for tigers lol.


----------



## liquidedna (Aug 2, 2019)

Thanks for the replies.

I wonder why folks say gnats are harmless. Is it because they don't do anything to frogs? 

Some things to consider...

One study cited was done on tadpoles and used Introban. This is not the same as gnatrol. Introban's active ingredient is a endotoxin isolated from the bacterium. Gnatrol is the bacterium itself. And these were LD50 studies that used high doses purposely to determine mortality and damaging health effects.

The second article states "Toxicity of B.t. to species of several invertebrate taxa (Acarina, Nematoda, Collembola, Annelida, Hymenoptera) inhabiting the soil has been demonstrated, but only rarely is it possible to relate dosage information to field situations, and in many cases the B.t. subspecies tested are not currently used for pest control in North America. There is an urgent need for further research to elucidate the relationships between B.t. and the natural soil microflora and fauna."


----------



## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

liquidedna said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why folks say gnats are harmless. Is it because they don't do anything to frogs?


Hello,
What harm do you think fungas gnats cause? 

I've never noticed them cause physical harm to my frogs, my Isopods, or to myself.


----------



## liquidedna (Aug 2, 2019)

They harm plants. The larvae eat plant roots.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

You'll find that most of us here are very conservative when it comes to risk to frogs, so even a link to harm is enough of a red light. 

Plants are easily replaceable, and fungus gnats are easily controlled (if not eradicated) in other ways (physical evacuation, vinegar trap). 

A very quick search of the archives here didn't turn up any obvious harm to plants in the many cases of fungus gnats (some threads were searches for info on how to culture them for frog food), so likely they are not a big deal in frog vivs -- and this is a frog forum, so that's the angle we come at things from.


----------



## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

liquidedna said:


> They harm plants. The larvae eat plant roots.


Ah! I see 

As @Socratic Monologue mentioned, most froggers don't tend to worry about the plants as much as anything that could harm the frogs.

Personally, most of my plants have cost $5-10 each, while the frogs are $50+ , so in balancing harm to one of these groups I'll choose whatever is best for the frogs (they're the reason I've set up my vivariums  )


----------



## liquidedna (Aug 2, 2019)

A link to harm that refers to Introban? 

Honestly, how relevant is the study if it's not on the product on which this thread is based?

I started the thread because Gnatrol controlled gnat problem I had. And I say problem because I have houseplants and my terrarium plants are not easily replaceable. Gnat larvae can damage plant roots, stun growth etc.

Fungus gnats

If gnats aren't a problem for you, you're good to go. If you'd like to breed them, I'm sure you could do so very easily. But for anyone who wants to get rid of them, my suggestion is to look into Gnatrol as an option.


----------



## liquidedna (Aug 2, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> It should be mentioned that B.t.i. (the bacterium in Gnatrol) has been shown to harm frogs:
> 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0013935114003867


I'd like to mention, you should carefully read an article before you summarize it and incorrectly at that.


----------



## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

liquidedna said:


> I'd like to mention, you should carefully read an article before you summarize it and incorrectly at that.


Do you mean that @Socratic Monologue summarized it incorrectly by saying the product harms frogs when the study was on tadpoles?

From the paper's abstract:


> L. latrans*tadpoles were sensitive to exposure to*Bti-AS, reaching 100% mortality after 48*h of exposure at the highest concentration.*Bti-AS induced GST and CAT enzymes and genotoxicity (erythrocyte's nuclear abnormalities), and caused intestine's*histopathology. Our results demonstrate that toxicity of*Bti-AS is dose-dependent for*L. latrans*tadpoles and that sublethal exposure alters enzymes of*oxidative stress, induces genotoxicity, and causes intestine damage.*


I'll admit, I'm not the most scientifically astute, but the paper says that sublethal exposurr alters enzymes, and caused intestine damage in the studied tadpoles...


I'm not sure what your endgame here is, but @Socratic Monologue's goal (I'm extrapolating based on other posts from SM) is to discourage the use of products/husbandry practices that have a high likelihood of causing harm the dart frogs.


----------



## liquidedna (Aug 2, 2019)

Sorry friends
I'm getting frustrated with this. I've tried to make my points clearly but I have failed. Definitive statements should be supported by facts. As I said earlier the product/chemical used in the study cited is NOT the product/bacterium I was referring to. A LD50 study (by definition is going to kill half the test animals) is not an appropriate indicator for health effects if a normal dosage is expected. But don't let the facts get in the way.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

liquidedna said:


> I'm getting frustrated with this... But don't let the facts get in the way.


I think if the discussion starts with pesticides and ends in frustration and sarcasm, perhaps just dropping the whole thing is in order. Usually people use their first couple dozen posts here to make a good impression, but from my POV this isn't happening this time around. Sounds like there is a serious amount of stress being vented here, and frankly I don't want any part of it.


----------



## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I think if the discussion starts with pesticides and ends in frustration and sarcasm, perhaps just dropping the whole thing is in order. Usually people use their first couple dozen posts here to make a good impression, but from my POV this isn't happening this time around.


It's almost like this is an open discussion forum with thousands of members and nobody new here cares about making any sort of impression on you. Always good to see new members getting shut down in their first thread though.
Thank goodness dendroboard has such efficient gatekeepers, hopefully thanks to your hard work and dedication we won't get any more new members joining to share information and _actually offering to send surplus supplies to other members for free_. 
I'm horrified that in this case they somehow managed to slip through the cracks and even actually read the study you presented and but didn't agree with you right away. That must have been really difficult for you but I know you'll find the strength to struggle on. 
I can see now how wrong I was to suggest that people were being driven away from the forum onto any of the many others where this incredibly childlike nonsense doesn't occur. Grow up and wind your neck in. 
You're. on. the. internet. If you're not willing to have people question or highlight flaws in your 'authoritative' proclamations then 'perhaps just dropping the whole thing is in order'.
OP you created a good impression on me. I hope you stick around and share whatever knowledge and experience you may have, hopefully you can learn something useful too.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Lol....



louis said:


> it's almost like this is an open discussion forum with thousands of members and nobody new here cares about making any sort of impression on you. Always good to see new members getting shut down in their first thread though.
> Thank goodness dendroboard has such efficient gatekeepers, hopefully thanks to your hard work and dedication we won't get any more new members joining to share information and _actually offering to send surplus supplies to other members for free_.
> I'm horrified that in this case they somehow managed to slip through the cracks and even actually read the study you presented and but didn't agree with you right away. That must have been really difficult for you but i know you'll find the strength to struggle on.
> I can see now how wrong i was to suggest that people were being driven away from the forum onto any of the many others where this incredibly childlike nonsense doesn't occur. Grow up and wind your neck in.
> ...


........


----------



## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Gnatrol uses the same method to kill fungus gnat larvae as the BTI in Mosquito Dunks. bacillus. I use it in tanks as I have fungus gnats ocassionaly from my carnivorous plant collection. It's great to 'cycle' if you start getting gnats but it's not a systemic or chemical pesticide that stays effective much past its application.

I grow consumable plants for a living. Both mosquito dunks and Gnatrol (omri listed) are safe. Gnatrol can even be used in fish ponds, aquariums, livestock watering troughs, etc. It is a bacteria that feeds off chitin, benign to other organisms including humans and frogs. No pesticides or 'chemicals' (everything is made of chemicals ).

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------

