# 30T Dart Setup



## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hey all,

I just set up my first terrarium for some darts. I decided to take some pics along the way so I could post them! There are still a few things I need to do before I buy any frogs but I decided to post some pics anyways.

From the beginning-










Started off with the foam and then I planned on having the pump be in the tank.










Added gravel to where the waterfall will be










Added everything else, but there was a problem-










The next morning the pump was already all clogged up so I decided that a sump would be a better idea so we drilled the tank where the water area is. 



















The sump in progress of being built, the Sour Cream cup acts as a sponge and micro fiber filter, all incoming water goes through it. 










The sump completed, just added the AC20 today as extra carbon and zeo-carb filtration, should clear up the water.










The tank all done-

Not too sure what type of plants these are-



















Let me know what you think about the setup!

I will be adding the leaf litter and seeding it with spring tails here pretty soon!

Any advice would be appreciated!

Matt


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Nice work, love the filter on the sump. Your tank is perfect for a group of arboreal thumbs,


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for the compliment!

I was thinking about doing azures or tinct's would either of these work well in the setup?

Matt


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## dendro-dude (Jan 25, 2010)

Azure's are now a Tinc as well, FYI
And Tincts would do great in there.
The tank is impressive, very natural looking. The water feature is nicely done.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Thank you for the info and compliment! 

Will the tincts utilize the upper portion of the tank at all? And how many frogs do you think I could have in this setup?

I will be installing a fogging system that will be connected with an auto top off later this week when the parts get here. It should be really coool!

Matt


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## TheFallen (Apr 26, 2010)

Looks awesome! I would say tincs or azureus would use the space some, but Ive read Leucs use more of the wall space. I would def put a trio of thumbs or leucs in there.


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## dendro-dude (Jan 25, 2010)

aquaman3680 said:


> Thank you for the info and compliment!
> 
> Will the tincts utilize the upper portion of the tank at all? And how many frogs do you think I could have in this setup?
> 
> ...


Yes, the Tincs will use the height. Although I've heard that the older they get the less they climb. So if you get Tinctcs, you may have to eventually move them into a long tank.

A 30gallon... I'd say a trio at most. Although a pair alone, would use all that space. The great thing abotu Tincts is that they use all the space you give them. I've heard people keeping a pair in75gallons+ and they use all the space. 

If you decide against Tinctcs, I'd suggest Leucs, as they're more arboreal species.

Good luck!
Physced to see that fogger!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

That turned out really nice!


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah Azureus are Tincs now. But I would put Leucs in there, because Leucs will use the ground space, but will use the wall space more then other tincs would.


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## ZC3 (Apr 2, 2010)

Is this the same aquaman3680 from salt-city.org? (matt? )


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

dendro-dude said:


> Yes, the Tincs will use the height. Although I've heard that the older they get the less they climb. So if you get Tinctcs, you may have to eventually move them into a long tank.
> 
> A 30gallon... I'd say a trio at most. Although a pair alone, would use all that space. The great thing abotu Tincts is that they use all the space you give them. I've heard people keeping a pair in75gallons+ and they use all the space.
> 
> ...


Sweet thanks for the info! I can't wait to get some frogs in there but I know I need to wait and make sure everything is set up right.



frogface said:


> That turned out really nice!


Thanks for the compliment!



heatfreakk3 said:


> Yeah Azureus are Tincs now. But I would put Leucs in there, because Leucs will use the ground space, but will use the wall space more then other tincs would.


I will have to put some hard thought into that, I am not sure that I am too crazy about the look of the Leucs. I really love the way the tinct's look good to know that tha azureus and the tinct's are now the same!



ZC3 said:


> Is this the same aquaman3680 from salt-city.org? (matt? )


Yeah same guy! Whats up? Zach right?

There is going to be a reptile show coming up here in KC next Sunday. I was talking to one of the guys that is going to be selling stuff there and he said that he will be selling some type of moss that is naturally collected and then sold. He said that this would be the best thing I could use to put over my soil and then to put some leaf litter on top of that for the darts. He also said that in the moss there are many natural decomposers, beatles and small millipedes and some other guys that the frogs can eat and will also eat the frog poop. Would this be better than seeding the tank with spring tails? Is there anything that would be wrong with the moss?

Thanks,

Matt


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## ZC3 (Apr 2, 2010)

Yeah, it's Zach.

I'd go ahead with springtails man, they do a great job in both of my vivs! Yeah check out the KC reptile show. Tarron from Reptils etc. will prolly be there, great guy and great frogs! All of mine have come from him and they are all super healthy and eat like pigs. I'll prolly be up threre at the show also, i think i'll prolly pick up a couple more frogs.

If you need some spring tails let me know, i've got a HUGE culture of them going right now.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

ZC3 said:


> Yeah, it's Zach.
> 
> I'd go ahead with springtails man, they do a great job in both of my vivs! Yeah check out the KC reptile show. Tarron from Reptils etc. will prolly be there, great guy and great frogs! All of mine have come from him and they are all super healthy and eat like pigs. I'll prolly be up threre at the show also, i think i'll prolly pick up a couple more frogs.
> 
> If you need some spring tails let me know, i've got a HUGE culture of them going right now.



Hey man hows it going! I didn't know you do vivs too, I've totally lost touch with SC.

Reptiles etc.? Is that local?

I have not really found anywhere local that actually has a decent reptile setup much less amphibian setup. If you have some springtails you could spare that would be fantastic. I could even trade you some coral if you want. I just need something to put into the tank to get it going. I was going to order a culture from Josh's Frogs. What types of darts do you have? Have you found anywhere local for plants at all?

Matt


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## ZC3 (Apr 2, 2010)

aquaman3680 said:


> Hey man hows it going! I didn't know you do vivs too, I've totally lost touch with SC.
> 
> Reptiles etc.? Is that local?
> 
> ...


Yeah I switched over to vivs a while ago, and I've sold off all my reef stuff. I was doing the reef thing for 11 years, and just finally lost interest.

Reptiles etc. is out of Newton, KS I believe. Yeah if you need some spring tails just let me know. I can put you together a small culture to get you going. I've got 5 Leucs, 2 Azureus, and 4 aurartus. I'm hoping to get some Colbalts or Citros and this next reptil show.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

ZC3 said:


> Yeah I switched over to vivs a while ago, and I've sold off all my reef stuff. I was doing the reef thing for 11 years, and just finally lost interest.
> 
> Reptiles etc. is out of Newton, KS I believe. Yeah if you need some spring tails just let me know. I can put you together a small culture to get you going. I've got 5 Leucs, 2 Azureus, and 4 aurartus. I'm hoping to get some Colbalts or Citros and this next reptil show.


Ill just have to check them out some time! I'd be interested to see your setup as well... I would for sure like a small starter thing of springtails. 5hat would be awesome. &ust let me know when they might be available!

What size tank are the leucs in?

Matt


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

ZC3 said:


> Yeah I switched over to vivs a while ago, and I've sold off all my reef stuff. I was doing the reef thing for 11 years, and just finally lost interest.
> 
> Reptiles etc. is out of Newton, KS I believe. Yeah if you need some spring tails just let me know. I can put you together a small culture to get you going. I've got 5 Leucs, 2 Azureus, and 4 aurartus. I'm hoping to get some Colbalts or Citros and this next reptil show.


Ill just have to check them out some time! I'd be interested to see your setup as well... I would for sure like a small starter thing of springtails. 5hat would be awesome. &ust let me know when they might be available!

What size tank are the leucs in?

Matt


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## ZC3 (Apr 2, 2010)

I've got a 75, 20L and 20H, and soon to be a 10vert. I'll get some pics taken. I'm off Tues and Wed, if either of those days would work for you?


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

ZC3 said:


> I've got a 75, 20L and 20H, and soon to be a 10vert. I'll get some pics taken. I'm off Tues and Wed, if either of those days would work for you?


Yeah either one would work out but it would have to be earlier in the morning I work at 12 both days. Ill pm u for an address later, let me know if that works for you. I really look forward to seeing some other vivs in person!


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

I added a couple plants today! I think they look realllly nice, not too sure what kind they are, I will post pictures tomorrow. I also got a couple cory cats for the water area. Looking for them to stir up some of the dirt that has settled in the area.

Would it be wise to buy some frogs as tadpoles and raise them myself? I noticed that they are a lot cheaper as tads. Also is there any issue with breeding frogs that are siblings?

Thanks,

Matt


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## mellowvision (Feb 6, 2009)

Looks great. The bulkhead was really a nice choice. 

Gotta be honest about the cories though, they're probably not going to do so well in there, it's not really enough space for cories, and without an intake screen, they might end up in the sump. A better choice for stirring the sand and cleaning up on the bottom would be malaysian trumpet snails. You might also have some luck with geosesarma crabs, although they probably won't dig much under water.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

mellowvision said:


> Looks great. The bulkhead was really a nice choice.
> 
> Gotta be honest about the cories though, they're probably not going to do so well in there, it's not really enough space for cories, and without an intake screen, they might end up in the sump. A better choice for stirring the sand and cleaning up on the bottom would be malaysian trumpet snails. You might also have some luck with geosesarma crabs, although they probably won't dig much under water.


And that is exactly what happened! I had a street elbow with a screen to put onto the bulkhead. But i forgot to put it on last night all three ended up getting caught in the mechanical filtration and died. That sucked!

What is a fish that might do well at helping me keep stuff cleaned up? Or maybe some ghost shrimp?

Also i plan on keeping some tads in the water in a couple weeks will I run into any issues using the water in there for the tads?

And also about the inbreeding thing, will there be an issue with that?

I added a few new plants today including a brom that I got for $1!!!!

Pics tomorrow, sorry was too busy today!

Matt


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## mellowvision (Feb 6, 2009)

sorry to hear about your cories, they're great fish... 

As a general rule, there aren't fish that help you clean up. There are fish that will eat left over food, fish that eat algae, and fish that will stir the substrate, but none of them eat waste.... and most require 10g of water or greater. In fact the AZA recommends that no fish be kept in less than 10g of water.

snails and shrimp don't eat waste either. They eat algae, left over food, and the microfauna that populate the substrate. I'd really recommend going with some malaysian trumpet snails to start with, they'll keep your substrate turned. And down the line, once your tank is established, then you can introduce some shrimp if you want to... But I don't think I'd use ghost shrimp, I'd try something smaller like cherries or something. Ghost shrimp are more likely to eat your eggs. 

If you're really set on wanting fish in there, you can probably get away with lampeye killies, endlers, or some other tiny fishes. Nothing over 1" is really going to be thrilled in so little water... and the fish (or shrimp or snails even) will eventually add to the waste in your water... So you really need to be doing weekly 50% or more water changes, and thorough gravel vacs.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

mellowvision said:


> sorry to hear about your cories, they're great fish...
> 
> As a general rule, there aren't fish that help you clean up. There are fish that will eat left over food, fish that eat algae, and fish that will stir the substrate, but none of them eat waste.... and most require 10g of water or greater. In fact the AZA recommends that no fish be kept in less than 10g of water.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info!

I have plenty of filtration on the tank, mechanical and two bags of Zeo Carb and one bag of chemi pure. I do need to vac it here pretty soon though. I guess I should be more specific, I am not really looking for someone to eat the dirt and moss and stuff more for a fish or invert to stir up the substrate so that the filter can catch the stuff that comes through it. Maybe I just don't put anything in there and do all the water maintenance myself.

Not necessarily a bad thing though. 

Matt


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## mellowvision (Feb 6, 2009)

yeah, I'd wait 3 or 4 months before adding fish, and see how things go. The trumpet snails I'd go with from day one... but coming from an aquatic background, I realize that almost all aquatic plants come with trumpet snails. lol. I don't have a tank without them. Of all the rapid-breeding snails, they are by far the most beneficial. They will not eat plants, stay hidden most of the time, and really help with the algae and dead plant matter.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

mellowvision said:


> yeah, I'd wait 3 or 4 months before adding fish, and see how things go. The trumpet snails I'd go with from day one... but coming from an aquatic background, I realize that almost all aquatic plants come with trumpet snails. lol. I don't have a tank without them. Of all the rapid-breeding snails, they are by far the most beneficial. They will not eat plants, stay hidden most of the time, and really help with the algae and dead plant matter.


Cool I will look into the trumpet snails! Thanks for the advice!

Just placed an order for fruit flies from Josh's Frogs. Should be here in a couple days so I can get the culture going before I get the frogs!

Super excited!

Matt


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Sick set up man. You reef guys really know how to do some pretty slick equipment set ups. Good luck on the frogs.


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## Nerdiemonkeys (Jul 11, 2010)

Wow! I thought my tank was crazy cool, but yours puts mine to shame!!! lol good job!


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## mellowvision (Feb 6, 2009)

another thing that's cool about something like a lampeye killi, is that one of their favorite foods is fruit flies. Mine go nuts over them. It's a benefit to have a single food source for a tank, and with fish, live food usually leads to less excess food, as long as they're not overfed. The only thing with the flies is that you pretty much need older juvy or full adult lampeyes before they can strictly feed on live flies... fry can't bite them until they're maybe 6 or 8 months sometimes.

Another species in the same size and needs categories that seems to eat fruitflies readily are geosessarma crabs... which is what I think I'm putting in my next paludarium... vampires and batiks I hope.


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## mellowvision (Feb 6, 2009)

you know, I was just looking at your pics again... That water area is pretty small... but the heavy gravel you have in there really takes up a lot of room. 

Something you might try is removing most of the gravel in your water area, and laying down a 3/4" sand bed in that area. You don't need much sand to do the job. You might need to secure your perimeter stones, and plug some places so the sand stays put... but I think you'll find if you use a nice sand, it will keep detritus on the surface so it's easier to clean. I've got one tank where a lot of coco fiber washes into the water, and I recently switched from small gravel to sand, and the coco fiber is a lot easier to vacuum out. It's not terrible for the water, but does release a lot of tannins while it breaks down. I like the caribsea live (freshwater) sands and flourite sand when there's a lot of plants... I don't know how flourite is with frogs though. Do know it's high in iron. Even playsand from home depot is ok, but it's pretty fine sand. Is there an issue with frogs and sand? 

Also, this tank is a great layout for crabs. You might find they do the poking and disturbing in the substrate as well as some cleaning and exploring... I doubt the vampires would bother the frogs. But I have no first hand knowledge.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Derek Benson said:


> Sick set up man. You reef guys really know how to do some pretty slick equipment set ups. Good luck on the frogs.


Haha, thanks! I think after having reefs for awhile and then switching to vivs things seem really easy, this is a very very simple setup by reefs standards!



Nerdiemonkeys said:


> Wow! I thought my tank was crazy cool, but yours puts mine to shame!!! lol good job!


Thanks for the compliment!!!



mellowvision said:


> you know, I was just looking at your pics again... That water area is pretty small... but the heavy gravel you have in there really takes up a lot of room.
> 
> Something you might try is removing most of the gravel in your water area, and laying down a 3/4" sand bed in that area. You don't need much sand to do the job. You might need to secure your perimeter stones, and plug some places so the sand stays put... but I think you'll find if you use a nice sand, it will keep detritus on the surface so it's easier to clean. I've got one tank where a lot of coco fiber washes into the water, and I recently switched from small gravel to sand, and the coco fiber is a lot easier to vacuum out. It's not terrible for the water, but does release a lot of tannins while it breaks down. I like the caribsea live (freshwater) sands and flourite sand when there's a lot of plants... I don't know how flourite is with frogs though. Do know it's high in iron. Even playsand from home depot is ok, but it's pretty fine sand. Is there an issue with frogs and sand?
> 
> Also, this tank is a great layout for crabs. You might find they do the poking and disturbing in the substrate as well as some cleaning and exploring... I doubt the vampires would bother the frogs. But I have no first hand knowledge.


I think I just might take up that sand idea. I use it a lot for turtles since they make such a mess the sand keeps the mess on top which makes it easier to clean! I think I will end up going this route. Would it be alright to use the same sand that I have used for turtles?

Also here's some pics as promised









Not sure what this plant is-









New brom got it for $1









Not sure what this one is either but I love it! Tons of color!









Rescue orchid!









Crappy FTS with a camera phone.

Let me know what you think!

Matt


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Did quite a bit of work on the tank today. I filled the water area most of the way up with gravel, mostly because I do not want to see my frogs drowning in the near future. 

I went over to Zach's, ZC3, house today and he hooked me up with some spring tails and a culture of fruit flies! So the tank is now seeded and will be ready to go sunday for frogs! I will probably be starting out with 2 leucs and see how that goes!

I also hinged the screen top for easier access, and started work on the fogger system. I got all the pieces together and will be installing it tomorrow!

More pics to come!

Matt


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Okay,

So the fogger system did not work out and I have opted to go for the humidifier method. I ordered it today so hoopefully it is here early next week!

I also got all my supplies from joshs frogs so I'm all set when I get frogs on Sunday! 4eally excited!

What kind of timer should I use foor the fogger? Can it be on for 15 min at a time?

Thanks

Matt


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## ZC3 (Apr 2, 2010)

Mines just one of those standard household timers where it's got a notch every 10 min I think. Yeah it can be on for 15 min. I think mine is on for 20-30 min every morning before the lights come on.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Cool thanks for the info!

Do you think it would be too much to run it for 3-15 min intervals throughout the day?


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## ZC3 (Apr 2, 2010)

naaa I used to run mine that much, but I found that with my viv I could keep the humidity up in the 80's with my misting also. I would buy in a good humidity gauge and keep an eye on it til you figure out how to keep it up through out the day.


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Sweet thanks!

Got my first two frogs today! Super excited, two leucs. I hope to get two more here in the near future. One of the ones I got has already eaten some flies!

Ill have some pics up ASAP!


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Heres one of the two new guys!


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Here are some new pics along with another viv i set up for a pair of vents.

The small one is an 8 gallon biocube that I have converted into a viv. Cut out all the baffles and made a stream area. I plan on putting two vents in this tank. Should work alright for them. 

I only have one leuc in the big one, one escaped but i fixed the hole. I plan on adding 3 more to this tank.














































Let me know what you think!

Matt


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

I would suggest getting some broms, background creeping plants and some film containers for the small tank if you are going to add vents. With the tank being that small you will want to add as much surface area and levels as possible. Even though they are small frogs they are still going to be a little cramped in an 8g cube.
J


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## aquaman3680 (Jul 6, 2010)

Jason DeSantis said:


> I would suggest getting some broms, background creeping plants and some film containers for the small tank if you are going to add vents. With the tank being that small you will want to add as much surface area and levels as possible. Even though they are small frogs they are still going to be a little cramped in an 8g cube.
> J


I am getting some new plants in there as soon as possible and will be getting some film canisters in their as well! Just put them on the glass? or what do you suggest?

I ordered the frogs today so they should be here tomorrow!

Pretty excited!

Matt


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