# really nasty lesion and worms



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Ok, I was freaking out yesterday because I noticed one of my mantellas (that I bought over the summer) had a nasty greyish ulcer near the vent. It could barely move its legs. I was worried that it was mycobacterium.

Today, I found the frog dead, and the wound was crawling with little worms that were clearly visible if you looked in droplets of water in the bag.

I contacted the vet, but nobody could get a biopsy (too much time had elapsed), and a necropsy couldn't be done either (even if I had the money to spend).

Other than "get the fecal done" which I'm going to do, is it possible the worms were inhabiting that lesion? Or, was it a secondary infection?


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Doug,

I am no expert and you certainly should follow up with a necropsy but my experience is the worms are secondary. I notice that if I lose eggs to fungus they are immediately gobbled up by worms while they do not bother the healthy eggs.

It's likely the worms are living harmlessly in your tank and showed up for the feast after the death.

Usually the visible worms we find in our tanks are not parasitic and harmless to healthy frogs.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I couldn't get either a biopsy or necropsy. My veterinarian said I could only get a biopsy if only an hour has passed. The exotic veterinarian my primary vet recommended (whom I despise) said the same thing about the necropsy (and they were very rude about it).


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## Ashli (Aug 28, 2005)

could it have been a prolapse?


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I have no clue. The problem with Mantella ebenaui- they are shy frogs. I often have to take a leap of faith that they are doing well, even if I haven't seen them for months. Coincidently, I was checking on the cb (Mark Pepper line) frogs and I just so happened to noticed my only other male acting strange. He had lost mobility in his back legs. 

It was more on his abdomen than his vent, so I doubt it was a prolapse. I have dealt with a prolapse before on a tricolor (which receded), and it looked more like a nasty lesion.

This frog was skinnier and smaller than my WC male.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The worms can be opportunistic scavengers feeding on the dead tissue as opposed to primary causes (although that is also possible). 

Ed


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

EDIT: whoops, this post should be added here: general-health-disease-treatment/topic36165.html

Ok, I discovered something this morning suggesting that it probably wasn't mycobacterium. 

Some of the spindly froglets have clinged to life over the last month. I found one dying with similar paralyzed legs and discolored abdomen. The condition was almost identical to the dying male-- paralyzed backlimbs, seizures, discolored abdomen, weight loss, etc. 

Like Devin said, I noticed other dead spindly froglets discolor.

It makes me curious now what caused the death of the male if it is unlikely to be mycobacterium. I did notice that the CB male was runty and skinny compared to my WC male. 

A side note, I had a problem with my male cobalt losing weight several months ago, but his stool sample came up negative. And the frog is strangely gaining weight. I did give him a shot of metronidazole to get him to eat, so perhaps coccidia attacked him?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Coccidia wouldn`t go away though it could be missed in a stool. Metronid is for, well I don`t know what it`s for but not coccidia, antibiotic I think. Sounds like red leg or something. I`d send in a spindly froglet to Dr. Frye and see if he can culture anything out. There are tons of bacteria,protozoa and fungi out there. It could simply be pseudomonas or aeromonas bacteria attacking a compromised system. Too hi of a nutrient load on a tank can cause bacterial population explosions that could attack anything w/ a compromised system.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Abdominal discoloration has to be taken in context as it can be due to a number of things. For example at death, blood pools into the lower areas of the body which can result in reddish discoloration (which can be mistaken for redleg)... also other discolorations can be due to items like the effects of digestive enzymes on the abdominal contents (including secretions from the gall bladder). 

Ed


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