# Question for SuperFly users



## Timbow (Aug 17, 2016)

Debating switching from my current media (major vendor brand) due to customer service issues(not sure what is going on over there the last few months) and to eliminate me having to add carotenoids to the mix. Is the consensus to keep the unused media refrigerated to preserve carotenoids? How about the hot water vs boiling water, I hate boiling water but it's not a deal breaker. Thanks in advance. 


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## cmk (Aug 29, 2014)

I don't keep it cold, but I do boil the water. I used to use hot water but it just seems to do better when boiled.


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## serial hobbiest (Mar 5, 2017)

Not Repashy specific, but Ed addressed a carotenoid storage question that I had recently that I believe is relevant:

"You would need to identify a source that is willing to offer standardized carotenoid levels of the material and turns over the stock on a regular basis to enable you to have the highest levels at the start of making your media. *People often forget that carotenoids are efficient antioxidants and as such are prone to reacting with oxygen which is why they tend to go rancid.* 

Secondly, storage in a regular home freezer doesn't really keep the material as cold as you need for the best reduction of the carotenoid loss, you really should be considering something at around -18 C(-0.4 F) or lower. In addition, the freeze thaw cycles of home freezers that are used to reduce or eliminate frost buildup affect the stability of the carotenoids and the loss of the carotenoids can be surprisingly quick under some of those kinds of conditions. So you still end up having to turn over your carotenoids fairly frequently to ensure that you have enough to meet the metabolic needs of the animals much less to ensure that they have enough for pigmentation. 

Çinar, Inci. "Carotenoid pigment loss of freeze-dried plant samples under different storage conditions." LWT-Food Science and Technology 37.3 (2004): 363-367.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...28d1000000.pdf

*You really need to store them under reduced oxygen conditions (as well as reduce moisture) to slow the oxidation. *"

-Ed

This makes me wish I had held onto my 10 lb CO2 bottle I used for kegging beer, and refilling paintball bottles. It would be simple to fashion a lid for your media storage to allow you to purge the container with CO2 each time you put it away. Comparing the price of the 1 lb Superfly with the the 6.6 lb Superfly, the savings after getting through the 6.6 lb jar will have paid for the CO2 bottle two or three times over. (At least here in Canada). Hmmm.... I just might have to go get another one.


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## Timbow (Aug 17, 2016)

serial hobbiest said:


> Not Repashy specific, but Ed addressed a carotenoid storage question that I had recently that I believe is relevant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I currently keep all my carotenoids in the fridge, which isn't a problem as they are in small bottles. Not sure the wife is going to be a fan of me storing the larger superfly containers in there though. 


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## TheForSaken (Nov 21, 2016)

If you're only getting the 17.6 oz bottle of Superfly, it is not much bigger than the 3 oz bottles of supplements.


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## TheForSaken (Nov 21, 2016)

Here's a comparison pic for reference


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

See post #4
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/76821-repashy-superfly.html
Allen Repashy says you don't have to refridgerate.

I usually just kept my tub at room temp and followed the instructions. It says hot water. Ive done it both ways. If there was a difference I couldn't see it. I also sprinkled yeast and not sprinkled with no difference I could see. 

Drfosterssmith has 3.3lbs for $23 free shipping.


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## Timbow (Aug 17, 2016)

S2G said:


> See post #4
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/76821-repashy-superfly.html
> 
> ...




Wow! That seems like a really good price. I don't see anyone else that sells 3.3lb containers, is that a dr. Smith fosters only quantity?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

serial hobbiest said:


> This makes me wish I had held onto my 10 lb CO2 bottle I used for kegging beer, and refilling paintball bottles. It would be simple to fashion a lid for your media storage to allow you to purge the container with CO2 each time you put it away. Comparing the price of the 1 lb Superfly with the the 6.6 lb Superfly, the savings after getting through the 6.6 lb jar will have paid for the CO2 bottle two or three times over. (At least here in Canada). Hmmm.... I just might have to go get another one.


There are other antioxidants added to the Superfly that allow for a longer shelf life without refrigeration. Just store it in a cool place with low humidity. This is where it is different for those making medias at home as you'll need to figure out antioxidants that are more reactive than the carotenoids or take other actions to ensure reduction of oxidation (rancidity). 

some comments. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Timbow said:


> Debating switching from my current media (major vendor brand) due to customer service issues(not sure what is going on over there the last few months) and to eliminate me having to add carotenoids to the mix. Is the consensus to keep the unused media refrigerated to preserve carotenoids? How about the hot water vs boiling water, I hate boiling water but it's not a deal breaker. Thanks in advance.


It depends on what you mean by hot water. 

If you want to make it quick and easy, an inexpensive electric kettle with a run dry shutoff allows you to easily heat the water for the cultures. I've used water that wasn't boiling but was probably in excess of 180 F to make the cultures without issue. The reason you want the really hot water is that if I remember correctly not only does it reduce microbes and mites in the media but it helps with the mold inhibitors (but I could be wrong on the inhibitors). 

some comments 

Ed


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## Serafim (Mar 29, 2017)

Ed said:


> There are other antioxidants added to the Superfly that allow for a longer shelf life without refrigeration. Just store it in a cool place with low humidity. This is where it is different for those making medias at home as you'll need to figure out antioxidants that are more reactive than the carotenoids or take other actions to ensure reduction of oxidation (rancidity).
> 
> some comments.
> 
> Ed


So something like spiralina powder would not last even if kept in a freezer maintaining 0 to -5?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Serafim said:


> So something like spiralina powder would not last even if kept in a freezer maintaining 0 to -5?


Is that F or C? If it is C, then at 4 C, almost >40% of tested carotenoid values were lost by 50 days (see above reference). Other studies indicate that you don't significant prevention of oxidation until you get to below -20 C (and really significant below -40 C) and that is before we consider that home freezers for the most part aren't that stable given how often they are opened and closed. This can cause significant fluctuations in the temperature and moisture which is where the problems originate.... 

At -70 C, carotenoids in freeze dried/well dried foods can be stable for as long as 15 years... 

some comments 

Ed


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

Timbow said:


> Wow! That seems like a really good price. I don't see anyone else that sells 3.3lb containers, is that a dr. Smith fosters only quantity?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's the best price ive found. One of the moderators told me about it last week.

Superfly Fruit Fly Culture Medium by Repashy Superfoods at DrsFosterSmith.com


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

S2G said:


> Drfosterssmith has 3.3lbs for $23 free shipping.


I used to buy the 3.3 lb size directly from Repashy. Then one day it wasn't there. I emailed him and he said that it wasn't selling so he phased it out and recommended I buy the larger 6lb size. That was 2 years ago. Makes me wonder if Drs Foster and Smith has old, discontinued product. Should be ok for a while as long as its sealed. Not trying to stir up controversy, just a buyer beware.


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

chillplants said:


> I used to buy the 3.3 lb size directly from Repashy. Then one day it wasn't there. I emailed him and he said that it wasn't selling so he phased it out and recommended I buy the larger 6lb size. That was 2 years ago. Makes me wonder if Drs Foster and Smith has old, discontinued product. Should be ok for a while as long as its sealed. Not trying to stir up controversy, just a buyer beware.


I appreciate the heads up. I can report back on the date when it gets here.


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## TheForSaken (Nov 21, 2016)

In Canada, distributors still offer the 3.3lbs Superfly. 
But up here in the land of Heavy taxation I pay $23 for the 1.1lbs FML


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

chillplants said:


> I used to buy the 3.3 lb size directly from Repashy. Then one day it wasn't there. I emailed him and he said that it wasn't selling so he phased it out and recommended I buy the larger 6lb size. That was 2 years ago. Makes me wonder if Drs Foster and Smith has old, discontinued product. Should be ok for a while as long as its sealed. Not trying to stir up controversy, just a buyer beware.


I haven't seen that size available in quite some time either. Wouldn't surprise me if the vendors were just sitting on stuff that hadn't sold.


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## Hercrabit (Oct 6, 2016)

I just received a 3.3 lb Repashy Superfly from Drs Foster and Smith. The expiration date is 12 2019. It will be long gone well before that date arrives!


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## serial hobbiest (Mar 5, 2017)

Ed said:


> At -70 C, carotenoids in freeze dried/well dried foods can be stable for as long as 15 years...
> 
> some comments
> 
> Ed


How about vacuum sealing in mylar bags, or opaque jars, with oxygen absorber packets? That would have to extend the shelf life a decade, at least.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

serial hobbiest said:


> How about vacuum sealing in mylar bags, or opaque jars, with oxygen absorber packets? That would have to extend the shelf life a decade, at least.


The oxygen and moisture absorbed packets would help increase shelf life, I'd be hesitant on assigning a time line as there aren't any published retention studies on it. Vacuum sealing would also help as it reduces moisture as well, but again, you would need retention studies to show a time line. Right now just storing them in a home freezer would still require turning them over every few months. 

some comments 

Ed


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

Hercrabit said:


> I just received a 3.3 lb Repashy Superfly from Drs Foster and Smith. The expiration date is 12 2019. It will be long gone well before that date arrives!


Mine was the same as well. I don't know if anyone has any fresh to compare. In regards to putting it in the fridge. The label states you could refrigerate to keep fresh. I put half in a gallon bag and put it in the fridge.


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