# JP's FF Culture Idea



## JPccusa

I hate cleaning the FF culture cups because of the foul smell and the shells that stick to the fingers/hands. I also don't think it is environmentally friendly or economical to dispose each plastic cup after a month of use (in order to not wash them). If only I could dispose of the problem in a more economical and green way... 

So I went online and got 100 7" by 7" clear poly plastic bags for $5.42. Here is what/how I did it:

- Materials








* FF cup
* 7 x 7 clear bag
* Tape
* *WIDE* rubber band (thin ones will roll down)

- Cut 2 slits opposite to each other at the bottom of the cup









- Inserted the corners of the bag into the slits 








**I made sure to leave enough bag on top to fold over the lip

- Secured the bag corners with tape









- Folded the top of the bag over the cup's lip









- Secured the bag with tape and/or wide rubber band









With this size bag, I am losing some space at the bottom of the cup but I hope that fly production will not be affected.



















Cleanup should be a breeze as all I have to do is remove the tape and toss the bag.


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## Blue_Pumilio

Wonderful idea! I would only worry about what happens when you tap them to get flies out?


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## Gamble

F*@% ing Genius! 

But ... Justin has a point.

Let us know what happens.


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## frogs are cool

wow why didnt i think about that!! please keep us posted on how they work out.


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## erik s

Pretty friggn good idea JP.....but the bag coming out of the cup may become an issue when you feed out....as my first thought on that is,... what about a couple small dabs of silicone on the bottom of the cup to "stick" the bag to the bottom???


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## ctsdaxx

Doesn't the taped tabs on the bottom slits hold the bag in?


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## redina

Great idea!

What about a tube instead of a cup? Then you can have a rubber band at the bottom also.


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## easternversant

I always worry about the plasticines that frogs are exposed to from flies raised in plastic cups. I'd be even more worried about the bioaccumulation of plasticines from bags.


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## erik s

ctsdaxx said:


> Doesn't the taped tabs on the bottom slits hold the bag in?


Oops....I need to finish my coffee before I start typing crazily.!!!!


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## Pumilo

redina said:


> Great idea!
> 
> What about a tube instead of a cup? Then you can have a rubber band at the bottom also.


Then you would need to re-address your lid. Starting with a fruit fly cup allows you to use the vented lid. 

I love the idea and am looking forward to seeing the results!


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## frog dude

I have had that idea in my head for a long time, but I just didn't get around to fine tuning it. Congratulations, you think smarter then me!

I can't wait to see how this turns out.


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## jacobi

I don't see how it's more environmentally friendly...?


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## JPccusa

Jacob, there is less plastic in the bag than in the cup (if I was to toss them away after a single use), and I save on water by not soaking, bleaching, washing, rinsing, etc. I am not claiming this is the solution to climate change. 
A more environmentally friendly alternative was just one of several reasons why I decided to try this.


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## LexisaurusRex

Bad ass! Good idea I wish I saw this a week ago. I threw away a bunch of mason jars that went horribly wrong. I messed up the culture media cause I was rushing and they molded and I didn't check on them because I expected them to be fine....few days later...so gross no way I was going to scrape that off the glass. Thank you thank you thank you!


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## frogparty

I still would feel bad throwing antics away every time a culture was done. Fruit fly media is far from the worst material I've ever had to work with. 

Autoclavable/oven safe plastic bags should actually have a lower amount of leach able materials than other plastics, because they're designed to be heat stable


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## kingfisherfleshy

Or you could just freeze your cultures after 28 days.

This kills the mites and eliminates odor. 

I remove a couple when its time to make flies, flip them over, run them under hot h2o for a few seconds, and then they just fall out into my compost pile. 

All you have to rinse out are the eggs, I give everything a soak in warm water and rinse them out. Been using the same five cups or so for a looooong time. 

No issues, no smell, and very easy cleanup.


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## kitcolebay

Very good idea! Subscribed to see how the results and/or revisions go! Thanks for sharing!

-Chris


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## whitethumb

i freeze mine too for years. using superfly the smell is rancid. if it does cut down on smell, it still sinks bad enough to hold my breath. this is an awesome idea. thanks for sharing


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## frogparty

Im still feeding off Repashy cultures I made in June. The smell is bad I guess, but not too bad. When Im ready to toss them, I freeze them then just pop out the remaining media, then whatever container Im using goes in the dishwasher


Not really a big hassle, and I reuse everything


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## Pumilo

kingfisherfleshy said:


> Or you could just freeze your cultures after 28 days.
> 
> This kills the mites and eliminates odor.
> 
> I remove a couple when its time to make flies, flip them over, run them under hot h2o for a few seconds, and then they just fall out into my compost pile.
> 
> All you have to rinse out are the eggs, I give everything a soak in warm water and rinse them out. Been using the same five cups or so for a looooong time.
> 
> No issues, no smell, and very easy cleanup.


Are you using a fly media with methyl paraben in it? I've wondered about the safety of a continual stream of Methyl Paraben going into your compost pile. How much might make it back into your family through your veggie garden?


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## frogparty

good thoughts there. Methyl paraben isnt exactly an awesome chemical to be ingesting or putting into your soil


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## frogparty

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9926083


eeh, guess it isnt so bad.


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## Dane

Very cool, JP. I was thinking of a similar arrangement recently, but in the realm of quarantine sweaterboxes. My only concern was leeching compounds coming into contact with the frogs, but it seems that has been addressed in this thread. Might have to find some cheap oven-safe bags to try it out with.


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## kingfisherfleshy

From this article it seems more harmless even than the msds sheet: Structure of Methylparaben | eHow

Says it breaks down quickly and harmlessly.

I have only been frogging for a year, and that pile is at my now ex apartment. Being mainly college students I doubt it will be used for gardening. 

No real space to do veggies there anyways.


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## dneafse

Hope this idea works out, but I also want to chime in to say that reusing culture containers can be done without too much work. Freeze, pop out residual medium, soak with hot tap water for a minute or two, then wipe the residual pupal cases out with a paper towel. It's possible to get 3-4 yrs service and many dozen uses out of each plastic cup/lid.

Here's an interesting discussion of the energy required to clean and reuse vs. the embodied energy in disposable flatware and dishes:

All About Dishwashers | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com

Does anyone make compostable deli cups?


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## JPccusa

That was exactly what I have been doing (freezing, popping, soaking, bleaching, wiping/scrubbing, and rinsing). The wiping/scrubbing is the stage I am averse to. I wear gloves because the pupal cases gross me out when they stick to my hands. Washing the cups in the dishwasher is not an option so I too am hoping this idea works out. 

Yesterday I checked on the "plastic bag culture" and everything is normal. I believe if I were to have problems, it would be while tapping flies out, as Justin mentioned. Maybe the lack of sturdiness of the plastic bag will cause the medium to come out with the flies. I'm eager to test that out in 2 weeks.


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## Hibiscusmile

So, how did it turn out?


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## Dendro Dave

Great idea, love it... May do it. Although from an environmental standpoint, aren't you creating more waste?

I always reuse my cups (I'm cheap! ), till something happens to them.


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## kingfisherfleshy

Dendro Dave said:


> Great idea, love it... May do it. Although from an environmental standpoint, aren't you creating more waste?
> 
> I always reuse my cups (I'm cheap! ), till something happens to them.


Im with Dave.

The freeze, soak, rinse method isn't that bad. Egg cases easily wash away down the drain during this process. 

I have had no issues with mold or productivity with the simple process I have outlined. No bleach and wiping.


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## SimpleLEDLightingSystems

This is an awesome idea JP! If it actually does work, you're going to save me a lot of cup cleaning time but I don't know if this would work for me since I microwave my cultures... Are you using excelsior? Thanks,

-Mike-


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## Dendro Dave

The silicone idea to hold the bag in place is good. You could do a dot on the bottom, and a dot on the 4 sides so the bag doesn't collapse into itself when you tip the cup over.


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## JPccusa

Got back from vacation last night and everything seems normal. I will try feeding from these cultures this week. Stay tuned. 



SimpleLEDLightingSystems said:


> This is an awesome idea JP! If it actually does work, you're going to save me a lot of cup cleaning time but I don't know if this would work for me since I microwave my cultures... Are you using excelsior? Thanks,
> 
> -Mike-


I use fine excelsior, Mike. Also, I too microwave my cultures and these bags do fine (water only). Not sure if microwaving the FF media would melt the plastic. I can try that later this week.


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## Reef_Haven

The suspense is killing me.


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## Reef_Haven

Fine. Now I'm starting to think you're just a tease!


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## JPccusa

Okay, okay... the update is finally here. 

Regarding microwaving the media in the bag, that works fine. I boiled the media for a minute and the bag did not melt/deform.

Regarding feeding, it worked fine for me. Flies rolled down as usual, bag and media stayed in place. 

This week I made more cultures using this method and I plan on switching for good. The only thing I would change (for now) is the size of the plastic bags. I found that 7 x 7 is barely tall enough. A taller bag would leave me more room for the fold-over. Once/if I find a better bag, I'll update you.


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## a1pha

I've been bag shopping...

Here is a type I'm thinking of trying: 
1 Mil Gusseted Bags in Stock - ULINE

They make thicker types as well.


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## JPccusa

I bough the flat bags, not the gusseted kind. Maybe that one works better... you might as well try and let us know how you like them. 

Uline is definitely a good supplier. Unfortunately they sell in HUGE quantities. I went to Ebay instead and found the 7" x 9" 1 mil bags for about $5.50 (100 units). They arrive on Wednesday.


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## Reef_Haven

Notice any issues with stress on the lid or difficulty staying on or removing?
Any updated pix?


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## JPccusa

Reef_Haven said:


> Notice any issues with stress on the lid or difficulty staying on or removing?
> Any updated pix?


You have to pay extra attention when closing the lids as they tend to require a little extra strength to close properly. The bags are thin (only 1 mil) so I do not believe there is much extra stress on the lids. 

I'll take pictures of my original bag cultures when I get home today.


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## JPccusa

Some pictures.


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## Scott

You *are* composting the remains I hope?

Makes great compost fodder.

s


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## JPccusa

I have not, but that is a great idea. I hope earthworms like pupal cases.


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## Dendrobait

What about newspaper, scrap paper, or butcher paper?


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## JPccusa

Instead of plastic, you mean? It could work... not sure it would hold up for over a month, though. It would also completely block the view (unable to check on fly production). 

In theory, all you would have to do is cut a strip of paper as wide as the height of the cup, wet it a little, and stick it to the cup's wall. After the culture is done, simply remove the paper and toss it. 

Is that what you were thinking?


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## SimpleLEDLightingSystems

JPccusa said:


> Okay, okay... the update is finally here.
> 
> Regarding microwaving the media in the bag, that works fine. I boiled the media for a minute and the bag did not melt/deform.
> 
> Regarding feeding, it worked fine for me. Flies rolled down as usual, bag and media stayed in place.
> 
> This week I made more cultures using this method and I plan on switching for good. The only thing I would change (for now) is the size of the plastic bags. I found that 7 x 7 is barely tall enough. A taller bag would leave me more room for the fold-over. Once/if I find a better bag, I'll update you.


Hey Thanks JP for the follow up! Yes, I boil then microwave the media, using a grain based media I kind of have to. I would imagine that the excelsior assist in the bags integrity... and that's why you didn't have any problems with the bag collapsing. I use brown packaging paper so I wonder how that would work. Maybe I am blind but where did you get the plastic bags at? Would like to try my own test! Thanks again JP,

-Mike-


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## JPccusa

SimpleLEDLightingSystems said:


> Hey Thanks JP for the follow up! Yes, I boil then microwave the media, using a grain based media I kind of have to. I would imagine that the excelsior assist in the bags integrity... and that's why you didn't have any problems with the bag collapsing. I use brown packaging paper so I wonder how that would work. Maybe I am blind but where did you get the plastic bags at? Would like to try my own test! Thanks again JP,
> 
> -Mike-


I got mine on Ebay, but I'll take some to SCADS so you can try.


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## Guanton75

For what it's worth, I've been making my cultures in mason jars because I think the glass is easier to clean and they hold up better in the heat of a dishwasher. I use a counter top dishwasher ($240 at home depot) which I have in my laundry room.
Of course, you can't put a culture straight in the dishwasher. To deal with that I don't bother with excelsior. Some times I'll put pieces of the "egg crate" light covers that many people use as false bottoms. 

When I make my cultures I fill the mason jar with 70ml-100ml (depending on the season/humidity) of water/vinegar. There are measurements on the jar which make that easier. Anyway, then I fill a coffee filter with the appropriate amount of media and place it in the jar, on the water. The filter prevents the media from sticking to the glass so the media will rinse out as one big glob after soaking for a bit. 

When using mason jars I highly recommend getting a big plastic funnel too.

Use as you will,
Seth


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## JPccusa

Got the 7" by 9" plastic bags in the mail today. 

It was easier to secure the plastic fold and there is even more room for the flies. Now I have to test if this size will still have the good results when feeding. If so, I will DEFINITELY recommend this. Give me 2 more weeks. 

Pics:


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## kitcolebay

Thank you again for trying this great idea and sharing the results! I look forward to giving this a try myself in the future. I'll still wait it out a bit longer to continue watching your trials. 

Thanks, Chris


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## frog dude

I just got my 7"x9" bags in the mail today. What does everybody think about using silicone (with acetic acid as the curing agent) to secure it to the cup? I don't know why it wouldn't be safe to use, but I just thought I'd check first.
I can't bring myself to cut open a perfectly good deli cup quite yet. I will though, if it turns out that silicone won't work.


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## JPccusa

The silicone will have to be ripped from the bottom of the cup or plastic bag. Not sure I like that idea since it will not be a clean removal after each culture stops producing. 

This is how easy it is to clean using my method:
Removed all tape from the bottom and rubber band from the fold.









Lift and toss


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## ecichlid

JPccusa said:


> I went to Ebay instead and found the 7" x 9" 1 mil bags for about $5.50 (100 units). They arrive on Wednesday.


 Can you point me to the bags on Ebay you used?


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## frog dude

JPccusa said:


> The silicone will have to be ripped from the bottom of the cup or plastic bag. Not sure I like that idea since it will not be a clean removal after each culture stops producing.
> 
> This is how easy it is to clean using my method:
> Removed all tape from the bottom and rubber band from the fold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lift and toss


Thanks, I'll do that. I also realized that the silicone drops/beads (especially on the bottom) most likely won't have the proper ventilation to cure correctly/quickly. 

Thanks for posting this information! 

-Josiah


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## kitcolebay

I've been following with interest. When I did a quick search, I found these... 7 x 9" 1 Mil Poly Bags S-5788 - Uline

Just placed my order.  Thanks again for sharing this brilliant idea. I figure the 1000 bags for $19 will last me last much longer, cost much less, and will be a whole lot less labor than using the cups themselves.

-Chris


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## goof901

kitcolebay said:


> I've been following with interest. When I did a quick search, I found these... 7 x 9" 1 Mil Poly Bags S-5788 - Uline
> 
> Just placed my order.  Thanks again for sharing this brilliant idea. I figure the 1000 bags for $19 will last me last much longer, cost much less, and will be a whole lot less labor than using the cups themselves.
> 
> -Chris


Yep google search just found that for me too... I will be placing an order soon, so if anybody in SoCal wants some.... Let me know... The uline bags meet USDA and FDA standards for food contact, so it shouldn't be too harmful, if at all. I can't use all 1000


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## Gamble

I just ordered some as well.
Thx JP!.

If this works out well, you just saved us all a bunch of money.
(I still may have to order lids tho, as the maggots tend the leave pupae sacks all over the top.)


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## Dendro Dave

Guys you could just cut a piece of saran wrap large enough to jam down there and rubber band couldn't ya? Wouldn't larger sandwich bags work too?


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## ecichlid

Dendro Dave said:


> Guys you could just cut a piece of saran wrap large enough to jam down there and rubber band couldn't ya? Wouldn't larger sandwich bags work too?


 You could, but this works a bit better and with shipping it's about 3 cents a bag.


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## JPccusa

ecichlid said:


> Can you point me to the bags on Ebay you used?


This is what I used: 7 x 9 7 x 10 7 x 12 7 x 14 Clear Open Flat 1mil Plastic Poly Packaging Bags | eBay



Dendro Dave said:


> Guys you could just cut a piece of saran wrap large enough to jam down there and rubber band couldn't ya? Wouldn't larger sandwich bags work too?


Saran wrap is not going to be so easy to shove down the plastic cup (sticking to walls and to itself). I also don't know if it would be sticky enough to hold the media in place once you tilt the cup. Could I? Yes. Would I? No. 

Large sandwich bags could probably work (XL sandwich bags are 7" x 8") but they are not as affordable (about $3 for 30 bags). 

Thanks for the suggestions, though.


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## Dendro Dave

JPccusa said:


> This is what I used: 7 x 9 7 x 10 7 x 12 7 x 14 Clear Open Flat 1mil Plastic Poly Packaging Bags | eBay
> 
> 
> 
> Saran wrap is not going to be so easy to shove down the plastic cup (sticking to walls and to itself). I also don't know if it would be sticky enough to hold the media in place once you tilt the cup. Could I? Yes. Would I? No.
> 
> Large sandwich bags could probably work (XL sandwich bags are 7" x 8") but they are not as affordable (about $3 for 30 bags).
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, though.


You might be right. Once you get it in there though and rubber banded and pour the water/media in it, it should press the saran wrap against the cup walls at the base, and if you tilt it and roll it around before you get to much media in there to solidify you could use that action to press the saran wrap against the walls, then tighten it if need be by pulling slack through the rubber band... In theory 

I just made that sound like a way more complicated and longer process then it is. Would probably take 10 seconds


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## ecichlid

Dendro Dave said:


> I just made that sound like a way more complicated and longer process then it is.


 We have seen that from you once or twice before, I think. 



Dendro Dave said:


> Would probably take 10 seconds


 I think you underestimate how lazy I am.


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## Dendro Dave

ecichlid said:


> We have seen that from you once or twice before, I think.
> 
> I think you underestimate how lazy I am.


Never!!! ...and Grasshopper, I've forgotten more about being lazy then most men will ever know. You are not yet ready to seize the pebble from my hand


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## Christian Badalewski

JPccusa said:


> I hate cleaning the FF culture cups because of the foul smell and the shells that stick to the fingers/hands. I also don't think it is environmentally friendly or economical to dispose each plastic cup after a month of use (in order to not wash them). If only I could dispose of the problem in a more economical and green way...
> 
> So I went online and got 100 7" by 7" clear poly plastic bags for $5.42. Here is what/how I did it:
> 
> - Materials
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * FF cup
> * 7 x 7 clear bag
> * Tape
> * *WIDE* rubber band (thin ones will roll down)
> 
> - Cut 2 slits opposite to each other at the bottom of the cup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Inserted the corners of the bag into the slits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **I made sure to leave enough bag on top to fold over the lip
> 
> - Secured the bag corners with tape
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Folded the top of the bag over the cup's lip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Secured the bag with tape and/or wide rubber band
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With this size bag, I am losing some space at the bottom of the cup but I hope that fly production will not be affected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleanup should be a breeze as all I have to do is remove the tape and toss the bag.


good idea but it seems like extra work and more of a chance to spill in the feeder bad.. no?


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## JPccusa

Christian Badalewski said:


> good idea but it seems like extra work and more of a chance to spill in the feeder bad.. no?


I don't understand what you mean by "more of a chance to spill in the feeder bad." 

And you are right... it is extra work, but this is something I am willing to do because of my aversion to the cleaning process. It is not my intention to revolutionize the hobby but to help at least one more person with the same kind of aversion.


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## Trickishleaf

I only make a few cultures a week, and I hate cleaning cultures, so I end up letting the old cultures sit for a long time before I clean them. This will make it super easy to clean up, and long prep is always better than long clean up.


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## chadnc

What a great idea!!! Thanks for keeping it updated and sharing with everyone.


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## kitcolebay

My bags just came in a couple days ago. Just made my first 13 cultures with them this evening. Prep time took just a bit longer with installing the bags for the first time, but I'm really looking forward to reusing the cups with very little clean-up!

Thanks, Chris


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## TheCoop

Gotta love that my lady works for Uline, I pay 1/3 of list price on everything they stock..


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## kitcolebay

TheCoop said:


> Gotta love that my lady works for Uline, I pay 1/3 of list price on everything they stock..


Very nice Coop! I just received one order from Uline, about to place another for some black corrugated plastic, and will be placing another order down the road for some more supplies. Congrats on the fortunate price break!

-Chris


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## JPccusa

TheCoop said:


> Gotta love that my lady works for Uline, I pay 1/3 of list price on everything they stock..


Now we know who to contact!


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## TheCoop

I could most likely save ya some money.. Ill have her check some prices today.


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## TheCoop

Ok I got the price but due to how low it I won't post it to the forum.. Its under a 3rd of list cost..


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## goof901

Would a grocery bag that you get for vegetables work as a substitute?


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## a1pha

I have been using uline bags for over a month now and LOVE the new system. Recycling deli cups is a snap. I chose bags that are fitted, so I do not use rubber bands nor silicone or tape. I just use the bag and fill it with media and excelsior. 

Thanks so much for the idea! I will try to post pics. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## a1pha

Here are some from last month. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## goof901

goof901 said:


> Would a grocery bag that you get for vegetables work as a substitute?


Bump? anybody?


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## Dendro Dave

goof901 said:


> Bump? anybody?


Lots of things will work... Don't over think it.

It is just a waterproof disposable membrane to keep you from having to clean the culture. Some options are just cheaper and/or easier, but basically anything that won't poison the flies and thus the frogs and you can jam down in there and still get the lid on will work.


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## goof901

Dendro Dave said:


> Lots of things will work... Don't over think it.
> 
> It is just a waterproof disposable membrane to keep you from having to clean the culture. Some options are just cheaper and/or easier, but basically anything that won't poison the flies and thus the frogs and you can jam down in there and still get the lid on will work.


The only part that i'm not sure about is if it will poison the flies.... Although since I am putting my food in these bags, it shouldn't poison the flies...


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## JPccusa

If you want to use grocery bags, use the kind from the produce department. 
I still think you are better off ordering 100 bags for $5 on eBay though. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## goof901

JPccusa said:


> If you want to use grocery bags, use the kind from the produce department.
> I still think you are better off ordering 100 bags for $5 on eBay though.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


I have a whole roll of those ones at home, which is why i brought that up.


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## LoganR

Very cool method, just not sure I dislike cleaning out old cultures enough to make it worthwhile. Besides, I can always have my kid clean the cultures when she needs money to pay her cell phone bill.


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## kevin575

How about the type of rubber band that you use? 

Would these work? 320 PK Bag 1 lb Rubber Bands 3 1 2" x 1 4" | eBay


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## JPccusa

Yes, those should work. 

As an update, something I have been doing a little different is to twist the plastic corners sticking through the bottom slits in order to prevent media/water to accumulate there. 

I can't express enough how happy I am with this method. I no longer have traditional cultures.


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## kitcolebay

I'm going on the 6th week now. I love it! I've tried a couple without tucking the corners through. Figured I'd test it a little to see if it all holds in without that step.

-Chris


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## a1pha

I've been using this system with out tucking, taping or rubber bands since this thread started. 6 cultures a week. It has been flawless. 



Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## goof901

Make sure the holes you cut on the edge aren't too sharp or jagged. The sharp/jagged edges cut holes into my fly bags so I have a little bit of media coming out. Not a huge deal, just a PITA. I put some scotch tape on the edges to round them out a bit.


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## bsr8129

goof901 said:


> Make sure the holes you cut on the edge aren't too sharp or jagged. The sharp/jagged edges cut holes into my fly bags so I have a little bit of media coming out. Not a huge deal, just a PITA. I put some scotch tape on the edges to round them out a bit.


Seems like you dont need to cut the holes, just use the stright bag.


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## JPccusa

I tried leaving the bag inside the cup without pulling the corners out and I did not like the results as much. I noticed there were a lot of dead flies/maggots in the bunched up corners. I'm sticking with the original idea of pulling the tabs out.

I also tried not using the rubber band, and it is indeed not needed. I still opt to use it since it makes things more secure/tighter, though.


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## kitcolebay

I'm still loving this. I met up with a few froggers yesterday and one (Josh) suggested using a cup to finish pushing the liner fully into the cup it's going into to help maximize space. Simple little trick. I'm about to do that in a few minutes. I've been pushing the liners in with my hand to spread them out, but you have the gaps/air in the bottom of the cup still.


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## JoshsDragonz

Yea using an extra cup to force the air out between the bag and cup works very well.. I didn't like the results of pushing the air out by hand. Using the cup makes the bag form perfectly to the inside of the cup.


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## a1pha

I've been using a cup as well 

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## nate_88

Does it really save that much after you keep buying all the bags an still need more lids


King N8 88


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## bsr8129

The bags are cheap and you can still reuse the lids.


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## goof901

bsr8129 said:


> The bags are cheap and you can still reuse the lids.


I just wash the lids down with hot water and scrub them with my hands. Works well enough.


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## JPccusa

nate_88 said:


> Does it really save that much after you keep buying all the bags an still need more lids
> 
> 
> King N8 88


The main goal is not to be cheaper, but to avoid cleaning up nasty cups.


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## rigel10

I wash and reuse the cans, although I prefer to the plastic lids other solutions, such as paper towel and rubber band...
Before reusing the cups, I did bags of garbage.


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## run91

Just switched over today. It's great! Wonderful way to save money and make clean up easier. Thanks for the idea!


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## TheLuckiestMommy

I love this! The ff cultures are the part of frogs that was grossing me out. This is gonna make it so much better.


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## Natural_Tank

I really like the simplicity of this method and I am going to give it a try myself. 

I do not know how these bags will hold up in the high humidity or moisture from the medium, but "Eco-friendly" bags are becoming cheaper and more widely used. Most all are compostable because they are entirely plant based and made to food grade specs. I was thinking these may become a bridge between those who favor the ease of use and those who are advocates about the waste of plastic culturing. 
I have not measured the exact dimensions of the inside of a standard deli cup, but either of the bags may work well enough. There are plenty of other bags on that site and many of other websites that carry similar products.

4" x 4" x 9" Premium Eco Clear Flat Bottom Gusset Bags (100 Pieces) [CFBG7] - Eco Clear Compostable Flat Bottom Gussets - Eco Clear Compostable Bags - Bags 

8" x 10" No Flap, Eco Clear Bags (100 Pieces) [GR810ENF] - Eco Clear Compostable No Flap Bags - Eco Clear Compostable Bags - Bags

I am not passing this off as an end all solution but alike the op's intention to provide help and quell the concerns of those like myself that cringe at throwing away plastics.


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## pdfCrazy

So, its been almost 2 years since this idea was started. I didnt hop on the bandwagon because I've always used quart glass jars and didnt want to re-invest to start over this route. But I'm following back up to see how this has progressed for people. Who's still doing this? Who gave it up cause they thought it just made the process a PITA?


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## Tzunu'un

Natural_Tank said:


> I really like the simplicity of this method and I am going to give it a try myself.
> 
> I do not know how these bags will hold up in the high humidity or moisture from the medium, but "Eco-friendly" bags are becoming cheaper and more widely used. Most all are compostable because they are entirely plant based and made to food grade specs. I was thinking these may become a bridge between those who favor the ease of use and those who are advocates about the waste of plastic culturing.
> I have not measured the exact dimensions of the inside of a standard deli cup, but either of the bags may work well enough. There are plenty of other bags on that site and many of other websites that carry similar products.
> 
> 4" x 4" x 9" Premium Eco Clear Flat Bottom Gusset Bags (100 Pieces) [CFBG7] - Eco Clear Compostable Flat Bottom Gussets - Eco Clear Compostable Bags - Bags
> 
> 8" x 10" No Flap, Eco Clear Bags (100 Pieces) [GR810ENF] - Eco Clear Compostable No Flap Bags - Eco Clear Compostable Bags - Bags
> 
> I am not passing this off as an end all solution but alike the op's intention to provide help and quell the concerns of those like myself that cringe at throwing away plastics.


I tried these compostable bags for the same reasons without much success.
A few manufacturers/distributors sent samples for me to test but the problems were fairly uniform.

1.) The bag material is stiffer and more crinkly than regular plastic (less pliant). Often it would rip when putting it in the cups and folding over....it doesn't handle stretching. None of the sizes fit well, either too large or too small in diameter which was a problem with the lack of pliancy.
2.) The bottom of the bags would often leak (not sealed as securely as regular plastic), defeating the purpose of the technique.
3.) The material is not heat tolerant and softens when heated media is added (even when only slightly warm).
4.) Since the material is compostable, it absorbed liquid and in quite a few cases would dissolve as the cultures got older and become stuck to the sides of the deli container. Also some liquid would get trapped outside the bag.

The bags made from the thicker Ingeo PLA film were more resilient, but still had similar problems.

I also considered the compostable bags for food scraps that are often opaque and green as they are more pliant and flexible.....but they are opaque and thus you can't see inside your cultures. Also they "sweat" moisture / soften upon extended contact with wet materials.

I initially thought that these would be an good alternative, but gave up pursuing this as these clear compostable bags are not suitable for being "wet" constantly for extended times from my experience.


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## Coqui

I have been doing the plastic bag method now for a little over 8 months and I love it. I buy my bags at Walmart, I use one rubber band to hold the the bag in place and the corners of the bag that's coming out of the slits On the bottom.


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## Natural_Tank

Thank you for your input on the biodegradable bags. I feared that the media's consistency would have undesired consequences. Saved me some headache though. I will keep an eye out for a moisture-friendly brand, who knows there could be one out there.


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## a1pha

pdfCrazy said:


> So, its been almost 2 years since this idea was started. I didnt hop on the bandwagon because I've always used quart glass jars and didnt want to re-invest to start over this route. But I'm following back up to see how this has progressed for people. Who's still doing this? Who gave it up cause they thought it just made the process a PITA?



I'm still using this , but I only use bags, no slits or rubber bands. 

You could not pay me to stop. I never want to wash another deli cup EVER!



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## JPccusa

JPccusa said:


> I tried leaving the bag inside the cup without pulling the corners out and I did not like the results as much. I noticed there were a lot of dead flies/maggots in the bunched up corners. I'm sticking with the original idea of pulling the tabs out.
> 
> I also tried not using the rubber band, and it is indeed not needed. I still opt to use it since it makes things more secure/tighter, though.


I have modified this method a bit. I no longer use a rubber band on top or tape to secure the tabs sticking out through the slots. 

I now use the rubber band to secure the tabs. Much faster than removing two pieces of tape per cup. 

Cleanup now consists of removing one rubber band and pulling the bag out of the slots/cup.


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## cowboy232350

Been using this method over a year now and love it!


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## JPccusa

Cleanup really is a breeze.


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## mwallrath

Coqui said:


> I have been doing the plastic bag method now for a little over 8 months and I love it. I buy my bags at Walmart, I use one rubber band to hold the the bag in place and the corners of the bag that's coming out of the slits On the bottom.


Can you please provide the brand and type of bags you got from Walmart? What section of the store did you find them? Thanks


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## DragonSpirit1185

JPccusa said:


> View attachment 205865
> 
> 
> Cleanup really is a breeze.


Yet environmentally disastrous 

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## Ravage

I'm with Brandon on this. So, throwing away 30% less plastic per culture is better how? It's still throwing away plastic after a single use.
Stiffen those spines and wash your dishes (I used to say that to the kids). Kind of funny having an eco-hobby and then trashing scarce resources in the process. We all do it to some extent (those Great Stuff cans add up), but this one's easy to overcome.


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## Woodswalker

I still favor the glass jars. I pull out the old media from all the jars, and quickly tie the trash bag and get it outside. Then, I rinse and soak the jars with hot water and mild dish soap for a few minutes before scrubbing with a washcloth. With all the nasty media already out of the house, the stinkiest cleaning stage is over, and it's much more pleasant to finish washing. It's not my favorite part of the hobby, but I actually like the glass jars. I can be rougher tapping flies out than with the flimsy, plastic cups. 

For that matter, they work perfectly with the funnel I got from IKEA for pouring flies. 

For those who like the disposables idea, it might be worth exploring the use of biodegradable plastic cups. The entire culture could be composted, if a sufficiently sturdy cup were to be found.


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## Dane

Ravage said:


> I'm with Brandon on this. So, throwing away 30% less plastic per culture is better how? It's still throwing away plastic after a single use.
> Stiffen those spines and wash your dishes (I used to say that to the kids). Kind of funny having an eco-hobby and then trashing scarce resources in the process. We all do it to some extent (those Great Stuff cans add up), but this one's easy to overcome.


Those poly bags are thin. I would suspect that it's a reduction in non-biodegradable waste (by weight) of 75% or better, which I hardly consider to be "environmentally disastrous".


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## MrBiggs

Ravage said:


> I'm with Brandon on this. So, throwing away 30% less plastic per culture is better how? It's still throwing away plastic after a single use.
> Stiffen those spines and wash your dishes (I used to say that to the kids). Kind of funny having an eco-hobby and then trashing scarce resources in the process. We all do it to some extent (those Great Stuff cans add up), but this one's easy to overcome.


Who designated it an 'eco-hobby'?

What resource are you referencing that's scarce?

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## code

MrBiggs said:


> Who designated it an 'eco-hobby'?
> What resource are you referencing that's scarce?


It is not. With logic, this hobby is the antithesis of egological. But I do see why people may 'feel' it is ecological. They spend their time creating miniature rainforests inside of there homes. Harboring miniature creatures from said rainforests. Blah blah blah I could go on. But if this hobby was 'ecological' You would move yourself to the rainforest to care for the frogs, not move the frogs to you. You would let nature provide the resources (e.g. sun(electricity)ecosystem(food)watercycle(irrigation)environment(not a terrarium and removing from wild resources)so on and on and on...

This arguement was not made but: as for animal preservation... hobbies are a terrible model for this and is best left to people in the zoological type departments with said experience/education, not enough controls (e.g. designer frogs and uneducated people/sources)


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## Ravage

MrBiggs said:


> Who designated it an 'eco-hobby'?
> 
> What resource are you referencing that's scarce?


Since you are building an small eco-system, that's why I called it an "eco-hobby" Not because it is related to any "eco-movement" or eco- anything really.
But one might consider the methods and care you put into your vivariums into effort and care you could apply to your planet.
What scarce resource? Petroleum.
They aren't making it anymore (or more correctly, it is made at such a slow rate there won't be new resources for thousands of years). We won't be here in thousands of years if we keep throwing away plastic. It can end up in the oceans (Google that if it doesn't ring a bell). Regardless of where it ends, it does not degrade well. It is also valuable as a precursor for industrial processes. 
But the biggest thing, and the most relevant re-cycling of fruit fly cups- is to just reuse them. Washing is not too great a chore, as per my original comment. Once they are really scratched up they make great dusting cups.


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## code

I would assume if someone was thinking about decreasing there environmental impact in regards to FF cultures, they would use 1-quart glass jars?


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