# "White Gold" Wingless D. melanogaster



## Detrick105 (Apr 16, 2006)

Just wondering if anyone has worked with them before and what are your thoughts on them. Are they worth the time to culture?
Thanks, Steve


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i been looking for a source of these, i am also interested to see if there is a difference between the color morphs.


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## Hakkamike (Aug 19, 2007)

http://www.flyculture.com has them.


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## Detrick105 (Apr 16, 2006)

Yeah I found them for sale on FlyCulture.com, and I was thinking about ordering some.


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## Hakkamike (Aug 19, 2007)

I really have not heard too much about them at all, I did talk to Nate at Jungle Jumpers about his wingless golden delicious this past week on the phone and I am going to try out a culture (he really likes them).


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

look interesting, although they dont appear wingless?

My experience with wingless [goldens] is that they are very slow producers. OK for supplementing and small collections only.

S


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i got some coming in tomorrow, i will let you guys know how they do in the next few weeks.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

These are the same as the 'mini white' melanogaster. Shawn, they're winged as you noticed, but produce like wingless.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

are you breeding these Mike?


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I got some of these (Mini White) from Mike at FrogDay. I have been culturing them for about 3 weeks now. So far - they are not that much different than the wingless golden (golden delicious) that are more readily available. Their production seems to be slightly delayed. In my culture conditions (modified Carolina mix, ~80 F fly cabinet) they seem to bloom about 4-6 days later than my Turkish Gliders (my Turkish Gliders average 12 days to bloom). My golden delicious "bloom" (if you want to call it that) at about the same number of days as my gliders - just much fewer flies.

I did notice that the mini-white bloom of flies was considerably larger than the golden delicious bloom - not quite Turkish Gliders, but respectable. I didn't count flies (in or out) or weigh the output - but it was very obvious in my eyes. 

These observations are extremely limited so far - although I will have the next round blooming next week for comparison. It will also take a few rounds of successive culturing to select for the flies that do best on my medium.

These may serve as a partial solution to one of my problems with large-scale culturing - in that the gliders bloom but production drops off within a few days, and by the end of the week - my fly production is low - and I have to wait for the next week's cultures to bloom. I was really trying to avoid setting up cultures twice a week to overcome this. If the mini-white continue to culture in this time frame, their delayed bloom would provide a fresh supply of flies mid-week, even though all cultures were started at the same time.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

rozdaboff said:


> These may serve as a partial solution to one of my problems with large-scale culturing - in that the gliders bloom but production drops off within a few days, and by the end of the week - my fly production is low - and I have to wait for the next week's cultures to bloom. I was really trying to avoid setting up cultures twice a week to overcome this. If the mini-white continue to culture in this time frame, their delayed bloom would provide a fresh supply of flies mid-week, even though all cultures were started at the same time.


Yes, that is a problem I've experienced as well. I now cx. on Sunday and thursday.

If these proved successful for you Oz, let me(us) know.

I gave up on the GD's b/c production was too slow/low and use only gliders and blonde hydei now.

Shawn


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

interesting, i make cultures once a week, usually on like weds mornings and although the wingless do take about a week to really bloom, all the other cultures will keep on producing for a while.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

forgot to mention that i am experiencing this with Josh's media, i was using ed's and still do, but mainly for Hydei, but i do seem to get better fly production with Josh so i am gonna make the full switch over.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Any chance you will be at the White Plains show later this month Shawn? I could bring you a culture of them to try out.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey Mike, where di you get your strains from?


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Derek Rader @ Flyculture.com of course, he produced the strain himself and is the only one that sells it commercially.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

cool, that is where i got mine.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Ok - just an update on the Mini White melanogaster. As I mentioned I got a culture from Mike at FrogDay - and I have been keeping them going since then - that is, up until last week. 

Under my conditions (modified Carolina mix that I make, fly cabinet at 75-80 degrees, large mason jars with excelsior) - these flies did not produce enough to warrant the time investment. I cultured them side-by-side with the golden delicious wingless mels for the entire time- and with the exception of one week - the GD outproduced the MW consistently (3 cultures each/week). 

Also - while these flies certainly are white, I wouldn't really consider them very "mini" - as most weren't significantly smaller than freshly hatched turkish gliders. 

If others are having good success with them under different conditions - I would be interested to find out what you did differently.


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## Detrick105 (Apr 16, 2006)

I have noticed that they are slow to produce. So I'll just keep their cultures around as a back up.
Steve


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

I was gonna get rid of mine too, but then decided to keep them as back ups just in case, and yes they produce super slow.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I find it amusing that people are finding th GDs more productive... not because my sitation is different, but rather it was so hard to get many people to give the GDs a chance because they were supposed to be so low producing :lol: 

I've noticed that my GDs tend to be good at production a littler earlier and less of a sudden "boom" than the MWs, which seem to boom a little later than typical melanos. The other thing that bugged me is a bit about behavior that Mike pointed out to me when I also got cultures of them at Frogday... the buggers really don't move much :shock: They just kinda... sit there. I need to take the time to write up my review of them for the LBF site, and while I hate to give my personal opinion in it rather than just the pros/cons of the type I think my opinion may be obvious with them lol... I was hoping for basically a winged version of the GDs (basically they'd hop rather than just crawl) just to find they really didn't do anything... period. This behavior annoys me more than their production does.

Oz, would you be willing to let me post your experiences on them for the Mini White/white gold melano profile?


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## Detrick105 (Apr 16, 2006)

What is the modified Carolina mix? I make the Carolina mix recipe I found on doylesdartden. Thanks,
Steve


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> I find it amusing that people are finding th GDs more productive... not because my sitation is different, but rather it was so hard to get many people to give the GDs a chance because they were supposed to be so low producing :lol:


In the winter months - I actually get great blooms of GD. Maybe it is the lower humidity. I have the worst time with them at the peak of summer. I keep the flies in my basement where the humidity in the summer can exceed 80%, and all of my flies suffer - but with the GD it is more pronounced.

I have been working with the GD for over 2 years now - and while they are a pain sometimes, they definitely are worth the effort for culturing. 



KeroKero said:


> Oz, would you be willing to let me post your experiences on them for the Mini White/white gold melano profile?


Go for it.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Oz
You mentioned something that struck me as very interesting..[ you do that a lot  ]

The connection with HIGH humidity and LOW production.

There must me a threshold effect here. I notice in winter (ambient humidity 30% in the room) I have big issues with lower production...

If I use a full 4oz of dry carolina media with extra water AND stack the cultures on top of each other 3 tall (covers most of the vent holes in the lower cx's), the lower 2 cultures stay humidy, the maggots are all over the walls, and production is better than the 'top' cx.

In summer, the cxs tend to turn to liquid mush or mold more often, and I try and reduce humidity by not stacking, and by making a drier mix. I can often get away with only 2 oz of dry mix per cx.

So what then is the BEST humidity. Something around 50-70% I bet, but I dont know. How to determine the humidity inside the cxs? or does that even matter if you can control the ambient humidity in a cabinet, and avoid stacking.

Best,

S


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Shawn - I can't tell you what the optimum humidity is - but I am sure that it is published somewhere.

I do modify the amount of water that I add to my cultures with the seasons (although the dry volume stays the same). In the summer for my melanogaster - I add 1/4 cup modified carolina and 1/4 cup water. In the winter, to compensate for the lower humidity - I add 1/3 cup water to the same amount of mix. If I were to add 1/3 cup water in the summer = mushy soup; conversely, 1/4 cup water in the winter = FF media brick. Unfortunately - I just have to pay attention to yields to know when the change has to be made.

Detrick - "Modified" Carolina is just a way of saying that I take the Carolina base recipe (powdered sugar, potato flakes, nutritional yeast) - and then add extra things to it (in my case - spirulina, paprika, Naturose, and occasionally Bee Pollen).


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

To mine it is Quick Oats, mold inhibitor, 2x the Brewers yeast and sometimes corn meal.




S


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Bee pollen.. interesting, are you using them for the additional sugar or is it something to do with the brassinosteroids? Perhaps it may benefit the yeast..


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## Detrick105 (Apr 16, 2006)

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Steve


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Corpus Callosum said:


> Bee pollen.. interesting, are you using them for the additional sugar or is it something to do with the brassinosteroids? Perhaps it may benefit the yeast..


I have to admit that the addition of the bee pollen was more of a holdover from my days keeping chams than from an informed selection. In some species of montane chameleons that have had issues with oversupplementation using the commercially available vitamin supplements - some keepers reported success by dusting the feeders (particularly for baby chams when it is harder to offer gutloaded feeders) with ground up bee pollen. As I had a good amount leftover - added it to the medium. 

Also - a note regarding the additional supplements - there seems to be little evidence suggesting that these additives make it through to the adult flies in appreciable amounts. But - as I also use this media when I culture flies for the purpose of harvesting larvae for feeding - I hope that the larvae are more nutritious after consuming the medium.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I find that the tricks with the GDs is to seed the initial culture with about 2x what you would do with normal melanos so I normally shoot for 150-200 flies. This heavier parental pool seems to overcome some of the seasonal issues as my production is pretty constant year round.

Bill


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

While I do agree with everything that has been said (i.e. the MWs being slower producers and mentally retarded as individuals) I thought I should mention that my last batch managed to outlast both my GD and TG cultures by 2 weeks.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

So do those of you that have or have had the "white gold" melagonaster notice them being taken by froglets that would not be able or interested in taking regular wingless melagonaster?

I got a culture a couple weeks ago but it will be another week (by looks of the culture) to have production to try them out.

Oh, and as for the bee pollen, in addition to having some good nutrition, it also helps things gel up for some reason.

I used to add it to my phelsuma fruit/nectar soup, and just a little too much bee pollen, and it would turn to jello.


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## Detrick105 (Apr 16, 2006)

Hello Brian, I have not tried feeding them to my froglets yet, just been sticking with springtails & curly wings. Sorry this doesn't answer your question. On a side note I made a culture of whites and put some paprika in the media, the result was kind of neat, reddish flies with white eyes.
Steve


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Dancing frogs said:


> So do those of you that have or have had the "white gold" melagonaster notice them being taken by froglets that would not be able or interested in taking regular wingless melagonaster?


Not really. They aren't much (if any) smaller than wingless varieties. I can't really compare them to standard wingless - but I didn't notice any difference in froglet preference between the golden wingless and the "mini white".


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

IMO, the golden delicious are smaller, produce better, and are more liked than the white gold. I stopped culturing the white gold because I really saw no benefit or advantage of them over any of the other FFs I am culturing. Just personal experience, but if you are working with golden delicious then there is no reason to get the white gold...


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I did not notice a preference in the white gold/mini whites over the GDs except maybe more ate the GDs because they moved more. The MWs just don't... do much.

I hate to say a FF strain may not be worth culturing (and in my food guide I try to emphasize that one strain may be better in certain situations) but man the MWs (mini whites) really ticked me off, and did not fit my hypothesis of what they would be like at all (hoppy like the winged strains... not at ALL), and I have a hard time trying to figure out what they'd be good for over other strains. If you have wingless and/or GDs, I wouldn't bother with them. They ended up being tricky to culture for me since I could never iron out a good schedule with them... meanwhile my GDs at the same time just were awesome little flies and made me very happy.

Due to my travelling so much for work recently, I inadvertantly tested the hardiness of what these flies will deal with... after neglect and drying out, I got my curlies and GDs to pull back fine, but the MWs didn't make it. Not very suprising... and I'm not looking to get them again. Time for me to rewrite their profile on my website...


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