# I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble??



## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

*I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble??*

Hey all,

I bought some "Kelloggs" organic outdoor potting soil and was told it was clean. I foolishly didn't pay enough attention to the bag, and went ahead and built my smaller test viv the other night. Then I noticed a small part of the label says "All natural with added bat guano, worm casings, etc" I know we want to avoid using fertilizer so now I am concerned about this soil...

thankfully I only used it in a 10gal as a test and noticed this before I started building my real 55gal but...

the reason I am a little hesitant on shunning it immediately is that I am seeding my tank with springtails and letting it grow out for the next 2 months before any inhabitants come near it. Once they do, they will obviously be fertilizing it themselves....so am I ok as long as I let my springtails and plants suck that fertilizer out of the dirt in the next 2 months? Or should I gut the whole thing and redo it?


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

I think the main concern would be microbes/parasites which may accompany the guano/compost. Baking it should take care of those things. But, if there are other chemical additives, it may be better suited to outdoors. 

Also, potting mix retains a lot of water so it is not always the best choice for a viv if not mixed with sphagnum moss/other additives. Perlite helps but it must be kept completely away from the frogs as they can be harmed if they ingest it.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

Like Susan said, potting soil really retains too much moisture for the humid confines of a vivarium - the substrate of choice tends to be ABG mix.


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## azureus for life (Jun 19, 2010)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

I use that same exact soil. I mix it 1/3 "Kellogg’s", one 1/3 Coco fiber, and 1/3 forest bark. Then I lay about a 1" layer of sphagnum moss across the top. I seeded my tank with springs and let it grow in for about a week before putting my frogs in. Its been about a month and a half now and the frogs are doing great. No signs of irritation, plus the plants are flourishing! In my opinion if you use a top layer of sphagnum or leaf liter, etc., will work fine, especially if you let it grow in for 2 months.


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

thx azureus that does make me feel better



Just to clarify, I am not using the potting soil straight up. I made my own mix of:

-2 part kellogs potting soil
-2 part coco coir
-1 part coco bark
-1 part shredded long fiber sphagnum moss
-1/2 part shredded charcoal


There is 1 simple reason I do not use ABG mix. The only place I've seen it at is Josh's Frogs and they sell an 8quart bag for $8. If I buy the components separately, I can make like 50 quarts for only a few bucks more...


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*



EvilLost said:


> There is 1 simple reason I do not use ABG mix. The only place I've seen it at is Josh's Frogs and they sell an 8quart bag for $8. If I buy the components separately, I can make like 50 quarts for only a few bucks more...


 Where do you get your ingredients?


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

@Zbrinks: LF Sphagnum and coco fibre/husks are dirt cheap and can be found virtually anywhere....I just bought a large chunk of both and they have yet to run out on me. As for charcoal....well thats easy as well; I buy natural wood coals and I grind up my charcoal myself.

the only other thing I use is the potting soil, which was where I was concerned..


I don't know if there is anything else in ABG mix, but I do not use anything else in my substrate.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

I was curious as if you had found a cheap source for some of the other ingredients, such as tree fern fiber.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

Besides the fact that I agree with others that your soil is likely going to be too moisture retentive, I would rather be safe than sorry and avoid using that product. I would also be concerned about how the frogs skin would react to that much nitrogen and whatnot, as bat guano contains very high levels.


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

honestly, the reason I am using it at this point is that i can NOT FIND any pure soil.


I have gone to at least 15 different stores now and NOBODY carries it. Not hydroponic stores, not garden centers, not home depot/lowes....I'm out of ideas and sick of wasting time...

I even went to an organic garden center and the closest thing they had was essentially the same thing I have purchased.


I am a little confused as to why you are saying my soil will hold too much moisture? My recipe is almost identical to every other recipe I have found on these/other boards...???


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

The coco fiber/chunks will break down over time - that is why charcoal and/or tree fern fiber is typically integrated - that stuff may be expensive and harder to find, but it really lasts!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*



EvilLost said:


> honestly, the reason I am using it at this point is that i can NOT FIND any pure soil.
> 
> 
> I have gone to at least 15 different stores now and NOBODY carries it. Not hydroponic stores, not garden centers, not home depot/lowes....I'm out of ideas and sick of wasting time...
> ...


You don't need soil, though. Just some basic stuff. Here's what I use:

1) Natural charcoal, crunched up with a hammer (I get Cowboy Charcoal from Lowe's)

2) Sphagnum moss, ripped up by hand

3) Coco fiber from most pet stores and also sometimes at Lowe's or Home Depot type stores

4) Orchid bark (I get mine from Lowe's or Home Depot. Should be fir bark)

Sometimes I throw a little LECA in there. Don't need it. If you're feeling fancy, add tree fern fiber. Not necessary though.


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

*Re: I just found out the organic soil I used has "bat guano" in it...am I in trouble?*

hmmm good to know...

I currently do use all of those other things in there as well as the potting soil...maybe I'll just stop using the soil then.

I also use the same cowboy whatever charcoal, sphagnum, coco fibre. I use orchid bark / tree husk but thats what I have been calling "coco husks" because I am under the impression that it is just that....I thought it would work the same as the fern fiber, but in this case I'll go for cost over longevity. 


thanks all for the responses!


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