# No beautiful terrariums here



## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

I did the eggcrate base deal, and coco and moss. I'm thinking that an entire blanket of sheet moss may not be good but before removing it I'm going to check out whether any of it survives in my terrariums. I do have some little plants I will plant this afternoon.

So far, on the plus side I've read about a million posts on this board so I sort of have a broad overview and some goals to wok towards. On the minus side, my terrariums are not looking like the beautiful works of art I see pictured in many posts. In fact they are downright homely.

Fortunately I decided at the outset that I was not going to purchase any dart frogs until my terrariums were in order and I gave myself a time frame of 6 months for that to happen, so at least there are no frogs suffering through my novice attempts.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

What may look like a homely viv to you now may turn out to be very nice after the plants grow in. Most of the tanks you see here that have a lush plant growth have been established for some time. At least that is what I am telling myself now since my viv doesn't look anything like those beautiful ones.
Give your viv. time to grow in.
Candy


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## M_A_B (May 2, 2008)

yeah i agree. Although its tempting to start over and try to make it look nicer you can only go so far. If you want it to look the nicest water daily and try not to touch the plants a lot so they will grow as fast as possible. I bet after a year of growth your viv will look amazing. 
btw pics would be great


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

I may take some pix and do a 'before and after' but the 'befores' are just too homely to put up now.
Hopefully next weekend will bring enough time to put in the misting system. 9 out of the 11 terrariums and possibly 4 Vision cages containing larger lizards will be connected to the system. I have to prepare by having fresh towels for the inevitable drips and maybe some Miller.


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

Well you may never have a jaw-dropper, but with enough plants I think every tank can be gorgeous. With a little work and a ton of patience, I think anyone can make a jaw-droppping tank...


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

This is something I never thought I would see in the dart hobby, tank envy? Well, ony for function, not fashion. Most of these "jaw dropping" tanks look nothing like the actual environment of said frog. If your frogs are happy why try to "keep up w/ the Jones'"?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> If your frogs are happy why try to "keep up w/ the Jones'"?


Amen, Aaron! I guess it is all a matter of perspective- whether we want to achieve successful long-term captive breeding or just the 'jaw dropping' display tank. None of my tanks will win any design awards, that's for sure- because I'm much more interested in producing good, strong healthy froglets and salamanders!


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I have changed my tanks over to KISS vivs - Keep It Simple Stupid. I'm using 25 gallon high tanks set up so that one of the short sides is the front. I usually have two large broms - one mounted on the back wall & one on the substrate in the middle of the tank. I put some kind of leafy plant under the broms on top of the substrate for a little extra cover for the frogs. The front half of the tank is 2-3" of leaf litter.

The frogs seems very comfortable in the vivs. I see them daily in the front part of the viv searching the leaf litter for food. And they're giving me enouh eggs to keep me happy


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

frogfarm said:


> This is something I never thought I would see in the dart hobby, tank envy? Well, ony for function, not fashion. Most of these "jaw dropping" tanks look nothing like the actual environment of said frog. If your frogs are happy why try to "keep up w/ the Jones'"?


You have a point. Of course, this is the 'beginner' section and I actually have no dart frogs yet; I thought it was actually a good idea to prepare their homes ahead. I have nothing to go by but some of the pictures here as far as habitat design. Why not post some of yours, if they are good utilitarian homes; this section is set aside for us who want to get an idea of what we should be striving for.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

I always go balls out, ha ha, but that’s just me. I love the plants as much as the frogs to be honest, and there are other like me for sure. I would still keep this tanks if I had to get new frogs. I am not the person to talk to if you want a budget tank as mine are not. The more I find different plants the more I enjoy my tanks. My first tank just had a few larger plants. It looked ok, but nothing great. After that, I started building tanks (I have three and I have built three for other people) that had a few anchor plants and lots of small plants to fill in the gaps. This gives a much more balanced look and texture. It seems to be a common theme in my favorite tanks. But again, you don't need much to make it look great. Spend some money on a couple nice plants for each tank. Then fill the rest with some cheaper plants that will grow in well. I have also found that wood can make a tank look very "professional" and it is easy to add (but not always cheap). There is not right or wrong way. In time you learn what works and what you like and you go from there.

This way my second tank.









It was not cheap because I went nuts trying new cuttings (there are like 4 or 5 different dischidia and hoya) and whatnot. But the main ferns were $4 or so, the Broms $5, african viloet $3. So for say $25-$35 you can have your staple plants. Then add a few cuttings that can grow in over time and it will look great. This is about 5 months grow in time I think. The wood is mylasian and can be got for pretty cheap, $5-8 a piece.


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

That is really beautiful.


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

flyangler18 said:


> > If your frogs are happy why try to "keep up w/ the Jones'"?
> 
> 
> Amen, Aaron! I guess it is all a matter of perspective- whether we want to achieve successful long-term captive breeding or just the 'jaw dropping' display tank. None of my tanks will win any design awards, that's for sure- because I'm much more interested in producing good, strong healthy froglets and salamanders!


I see what you are saying, but are you also saying that the two goals are mutually exclusive?


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Thanks, but I guess my point was that I did that without much hard experience by following some good build practices. Check this out. I use this technique in all my builds. http://www.blackjungle.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2108, just not the water part.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> I see what you are saying, but are you also saying that the two goals are mutually exclusive?


Not necessarily. It's all about economy of scale. I actually ride the rail between the breeding tank and display tank, because I am equally interested in collecting/growing unusual plants as I am in working with amphibians (I keep salamanders and caecilians in addition to darts). My salamander enclosures are rather drab- coco fiber substrate, a good layer of leaf litter collected from my property, bits of temperate mosses and bark curls in 64 QT sterlite tubs. The salamanders dig and burrow, so using rooted plants isn't conducive to their set ups. The caecilians are kept in even more basic enclosures, because they spend all their time nestled in the dirt- cocofiber and leaf litter. Live plants would also be wasted here.

The imitator viv is the closest thing I have to a display tank- heavily planted with broms, orchids and various epiphytes in a 44 gallon corner tank.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Lucille said:


> I see what you are saying, but are you also saying that the two goals are mutually exclusive?


I don't think they are mutually exclusive. A frog or frogs can do just as well in a simple set-uo as an advanced one. In fact, if you look at a lot of these frogs natural environments it is a few larger plants and tons and tons of leafs and branches and other things. Although some live in very dense areas too. The goal should be what you like and what is healthy for your frogs. There are a few groups of people in this hobby. In no particular order:

*1. Pokemon Collectors.* " I want as many frogs as I can get my hands on. I will keep them in simple set-ups, mostly 10 verts so I can have lots. Then people will wish they had my collection. I will then get too stressed out by my frogs and sell them all at once and at a huge loss"! This is a bit dramatic, but we do see it.

*2. Collect Them All Because I Love Them All Collectors *- "I love frogs and have the means to care for many. I will give them the best and most reasonable care I can give them. I will build the nicest tanks I can while still being concerned with good husbandry. My tanks may not be the prettiest, but my frogs are healthy and happy."

*3. Collect a Few Because I Don't Have Much Money or Time* - "I am just like the collect them all because they love them all collectors, but I don't have the time or money for a large collection. I will keep a few and do the best I can."

*4. I Love Plants, Oh and Frogs Too!! -* "I love plants with my whole body. I will build tanks around my love of plants and then put the frogs I love in there. I will care almost equally for both my forgs and my plants and will be as excited by both. I may have a little or a lot of tanks, but the design of each of them will be important to me and I will make them look as nice as I can. I might have a smaller frog collection but...wait wait wait! THAT ORCHID IS BLOOMING!!!"

*5. Average Frogger *- "Everyone else is nuts! I want a nice looking tank, but I don't need $200 in plants thank you, I could get some Pumilio! I keep nice looking tanks and several species of frogs. I care about the health and looks of my tanks, but my wonderful frogs are more inportant. I will keep as much as is reasonable for me". EDIT "I don't get the people who mass collect the frogs just to have them, but at the same time i wish I had a huge frog room! I just know it is more than I can handel. Man I wish I could be #2!"

There are variations on all of these and combinations. So it all really depends on what you want to get out of the hobby. I am #4, ha ha. I have a small collection of frogs and will keep it that way, But I love my tanks and my frogs a great deal.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Jason is #5/4 ha ha. I actually think what Jason is saying here is more the realtiy of the average frogger. Kudos Jason! I know you have healthy animals. Post some updated shots of that 44!


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Lucille said:


> I have nothing to go by but some of the pictures here as far as habitat design. Why not post some of yours, if they are good utilitarian homes; this section is set aside for us who want to get an idea of what we should be striving for.












This is the girls current home. Not jaw dropping or lush but they seem happy. If it weren't for the creeping fig on the back, the tank would just look dirty. 
Candy


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

No way Candy, looks good to me. I am sure when it is all lit up it looks very nice.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

It all depends on what frogs you have. Here a couple non thumb or pumilio or auratus leucs or galacts vivs. Those vivs are all planted. here are a couple unplanted.
beginner-discussion/topic40027-45.html


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I started out with a very simple tank set up. It is a 38 hex with a gravel bottom that I siphon. Riccia on the gravel, several broms of different sizes, no background, several brazil nut pods, creeping ficus and a fern. Works great. I had coco huts in there for a while, but they hated them and still only lay eggs on this particular brom.
My new viv project, though, is a combo of my love of orchids and dart frogs. I have been getting some orchids(minis from the same area as the leucs are from) that will be the plant base for the tank. I am using all the experience my first tank has taught me, and now this one will be a bit more complex( false bottom, background and a fogger) and I am not stressed out about any of the other plants because I know if they will live in gravel with no drainage, they will live just fine in a tank witha false bottom. I am resisting the urge to over plant it to make it look like it is done right away, which is the biggest thing I see here in people's pics.


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

May I please see a pic of a brazil nut pod?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> brazil nut pod


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

Wow those are pretty cool looking. Do any vendors have them?


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Do any vendors have them?


Yep, that picture came from Black Jungle- search 'Dendro Pod'


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

they grow a little mold at first, but it goes away. I also like bog log, it doesn't rot, and looks really neat in the tank. lots of crannies to stick plants into


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

Holy Moley, what a store!!!! And the pods are so cute. And reasonable. What a store!!!


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

*Re: Types of froggers in this hobby*



Mywebbedtoes said:


> *1. Pokemon Collectors.* " I want as many frogs as I can get my hands on. I will keep them in simple set-ups, mostly 10 verts so I can have lots. Then people will wish they had my collection. I will then get too stressed out by my frogs and sell them all at once and at a huge loss"! This is a bit dramatic, but we do see it.
> 
> *2. Collect Them All Because I Love Them All Collectors *- "I love frogs and have the means to care for many. I will give them the best and most reasonable care I can give them. I will build the nicest tanks I can while still being concerned with good husbandry. My tanks may not be the prettiest, but my frogs are healthy and happy."
> 
> ...


Spot on!!

I'm a 4, mostly. It was more of a "I need to garden but winters are so long in Wisconsin and this is great I can grow tropical plants and have a beautiful little viv, and some frogs finish it out like fish in a planted aquarium."


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## Lucille (May 9, 2008)

I think the divisions are thoughtful and perceptive, one can see the various classifications mywebbedtoes has mapped out not only in frogs, but in many who collect all sorts of various things.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Hi, my name is Tim, and I'm a Number 4. :?


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## beachbabe18509 (Oct 29, 2007)

Number 3 here.... I wonder where that tax refund went.... oh who knew you weren't supposed to spend student loans on more tanks and plants.....


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm definitely a #5, but I could easily see myself being a #2 down the road, but limited to maybe 10 larger tanks rather than the huge collection of 20 verts or whatever.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

> Jason is #5/4 ha ha.


If you saw the salamander tanks, you'd rethink that designation :twisted:


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