# New terrarium, suggestions welcome.



## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

This is my first attempt to make a terrarium, I actually made one already but it was just a quick fix for a pair of pumilio I picked up at the last show, I just couldn't resist and I didnt have a terrarium ready for them so I rushed in to a very basic one. Anyway, I had this 18" cube exo terra for my geckos I was not using anymore so I started converting it. Did lots of reading to see what people are doing and trying to avoid mistakes since I will be adding a water future to it. I also trying to keep it as light as possible in case I need to move it.
Here is the false bottom. Used some plastic balls for fish filter to make volume so I can add less water and it may be good for filtration as well, not sure.








Next is the back and corner for river pump.








Little screen piece to keep the balls in, tried to turn it with out and was not pretty, lol, didn't work out well. So I am looking them in now.








Picked up few cool looking small rocks at fish store and few pieces of Malasya drift wood, some great stuff and here we go, made a small shelf to hold the excess water and put a small plastic container to make a small pond.








Now got some trimming to do with the great stuff.








I am adding a small pvc pipe to run the actual hose from the pump in it, I didn't want to lock the hose behind the great stuff, I want the pump to come out easy if I need to service it. At the other end I am putting some screen to avoid, in case the pump stops, the frogs can't go in the pipe.








Some cutting on great stuff done and trying out the other piece of drift wood which will hold bromeliads as it has many branches.








Some gorilla glue and the pipe is in, you can see no way the frogs can get in there now, hehehe.








Making a removable cork for the pump corner, we don't want the frogs to get in there either, hehehe.








Now the pump corner should be nice and sealed and easy to service.








Making the side panels, side note "next time I will make those first, lol", some part of the sides are not very easy to get to due to the drift wood but a long brash should do the trick to get in tight spaces, need to go buy one now, lol. 








Well, this is so far, also you may have notice I put some film canisters to the great stuff to give more spots for egg feeders frogs, I think I am pretty hooked on those.
Any comments and suggestions are very well welcome, thanks for looking.


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## BOOSHIFIED (Jun 23, 2009)

looks like you are off to a great start. i cant wait to see this finished


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

do you have any other froggers local? do you have FFs? have you ever had darts before? 

i ask because pumilio can be more difficult than other frogs, therefore are not suggested for beginners (unless IMO there is a senior frogger, local, who can provide assistance and help the person get everything set up correctly)

james


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

> do you have any other froggers local? do you have FFs? have you ever had darts before?
> i ask because pumilio can be more difficult than other frogs, therefore are not suggested for beginners (unless IMO there is a senior frogger, local, who can provide assistance and help the person get everything set up correctly)
> james


I have visited 3 people already that breed dart frog, what is FFs? Is that short for fruit flies? I am breeding fruit flies and spring tails already, I been in reptiles for about 15 years but only ones long time ago I had DFs for short while. I think I should have my basics covered so far. I have a small room with a heater running 24/7 at 75* to keep the tanks at that temps at night but during the day is higher in the tank due to the lights. I read and was told best temps to breed pumilios is high 70s and low 80s. Only thing missing is a misting system now, in addition of building more tanks, I am dealing with the hand mister for now since only got 2 tanks running. Let me know if I am missing something, I love suggestions.


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

Little more work done, starting to look like a vivarium now, lol. Got to touch up those rocks left and right, the great stuff you see in the bottom will be covered by the dirt so we wont be able to see it.








The panel for the pump maintenance is done, nice tight fit as you can see.








My last dilemma will be in which position I will put the big piece of drift wood, I have a few options but this one looks more realistic with the thinner roots going to the bottom of the tank, but I will still play with it when I am done with the rest.


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

I may need some suggestion or comments, I do need help, I went through 2 big problems now, hope someone can help. 
First the updates were coming nicely.
































OK, up to here all good, when I started the pump the water actually was going exactly the way I was hopping for, I should have tried the water pump before to see what the course would have been but is actually going the right way.
First big problem, all the coco fiber I glued to the whole back ground with the silicone started to come off, like it never glued to the silicone properly, anyone knows why this is happening? I have seen many people doing it this way but my fiber is coming off from everywhere when I run the water on it.
Second problem, I did wash/clean all the rocks and the leca/hydroton I used around the false bottom, but after a little circling of the water it became milky sort of, any help with my problems will be very much appreciated.


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

Well, went out to the hardware store to ask some suggestions there, I bought some spray glue, called 3M rubber and vinyl, I was told it would dry and be water proof as it is used to glue plastic and rubber material together. Having not much options and before all the work sticking the fiber to the sides and background would go to garbage, I spayed it over. It did change the color of the fiber, I don't mind the new color much, still looks pretty realistic with some more grayish tint to it. I just want to make sure that this stuff, ones is cured, it will have no problems for the future frogs that will go in there. In any case, I am planing to keep this viv going for a few months before I put anything in there other then plants and springtails, I think those should help clearing the viv as well.
I also still have the big problem of the milky water, anyone has any suggestions on how to solve it?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

The coco fiber has to be dry when applied to the silicone. It has to be really smooshed into the silicone. Still it will fall of in areas. 

May I recommend clay? You can mix up some 100 percent clay kitty litter with some coco fiber, add water until it is mixed and can be balled up and not sticky. Then press over the background where ever you want it. 

edit: Oooh never mind. I see you fixed your background and it looks great! I would think the water would clear after everything has had time to cure and you cycle the water a bit.


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

> edit: Oooh never mind. I see you fixed your background and it looks great! I would think the water would clear after everything has had time to cure and you cycle the water a bit.


Yes I agree, I think it looks nice, actually I like it better then the fiber looking, as it looks more rocky now,  Do you know anything about this 3M glue? By the way, I did put the fiber in the oven for a while, it was bone dry when I applied it, very bad result, and I was applying abundance of silicone and press it over it, but still bad result. Hope you right about the water, looks very unhealthy right now. I am thinking to add some fish tank filter charcoal in a stacking to help clear the water. I may such this water out and put new one in as well.


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## psychemjr (Jan 6, 2008)

Is this Alberto?


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

Yes, same old me, heheh. Who is asking?


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

What are you putting in there?


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

> What are you putting in there?


When the viv is done and cured I will look for some PDF.


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

New updates, I decide to redo the false bottom to minimize weight, here are some updates, waiting for plants now to complete the work. I gorilla glued the styrofoam to the bottom, it will float if you don't and mess up your work.
























A little try on the pump, added the leca small rocks and screen to keep all in place.








Little styrofoam building to make the water go in the small pond, and also I added a little crate across to keep all the styrofoam glues to the bottom, no surprises later, hehehe.








Water runs perfectly like I hopped for, I made also a small shelf pond area, probably good spot to grow some moss there, hehehe, waiting for plant to arrive to complete the work, then just got to wait for the tank to run the natural course of building some micro fauna and then just add my new frogs in there,


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

Well, plants are here, doing a try out now on how to position everything, this looks like it, I was able to squeeze in there 4 bromiliads which is not bad, 2 of those are pretty big. I must say the PIC doesn't look as good as it does in person but you get the idea.








I planted in the plants, some moss and leaf litter added with springtails, still didn't fixed in the broms, I may move things around a bit, but overall this is it, just few adjustment to do. Water is running perfectly fine for now, will give it like a week or more before I put any frogs in there. I was also told to add a few leafy plants, so will add a few of those in as well as soon as I get my hands on a few.


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

That looks awesome!!! What are did you decide to put in there?


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

I think I will move my escudo in there and build a bigger terrarium for my new beauties. Just got in my 24 X 18 X 24 exo terra in and I am waiting for some wood to be delivered before I start with the new jewel, 
Got my mist system in already, so new tanks will be build with mist system and drainage system instead of having water future. I was also thinking of adding bulkheads in just in case I want to add a fogger, I like the look of the fog in the viv, actually here is a question, what good fog system you guys suggest to split for 2 vivs? I need some outside the tank running on pipes. The tank i will be using will be the above exo terra and one a bit smaller 18X 18 X 24.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

3M spray adhesive??? Milky Water??? Doesn't sound like an ideal environment you have there. Please do your escudo and the entire hobby a favor and make certian your not issuing your precious frogs a death sentence by placing them into a toxic box of doom. Research, Research, Research....and I am doubtfull that your hardware store salesman has the well being of your pumilios in mind. I may be way off base in thinking that what you have here is less than ideal, and if that is the case I apologize, but I have personally done a ton of research and read endless construction threads and can not recall reading that an aerosoul adhesive can safely be used. Good Luck.


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

> Please do your escudo and the entire hobby a favor


Yes, I have been breeding geckos for the past 15 years and I put all the babies in a gas chamber for fun.
As I said I think I will move my escudo in there not that they are already in, milky water problem is solved, I remade all the false bottom, was an issue with that, about the 3M spray, if you recall I asked for help, I am not on the forum asking questions because I am someone that doesn't care about the animals, no one so far as advice me against, and still I am not putting anything in there until I am sure that the viv is safe, still looking for more info about the M3, from what I have got so far it should be almost like liquid rubber, I got to make sure that is safe even after is cured, I still don't have a sure answer for that, so my escudo will not go in there until I am 100% sure.
Part of my title is, suggestions welcome, please do the entire hobby a favor, instead of using offensive sarcastic comment try to share useful information please, I will be very happy to learn. Yes, sorry, I am sensitive about "all" my animals, I do actually care for them.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

I apologize. You may find this website of interest. I did not read every word of it but what I did read didn't sound too good.
http://www.alvinit.com/library/pubfiles/MSDS_3M_SPRAY_MOUNT.pdf
I also found in another thread on DB where someone decided against it, due to toxicity. MAybe you could contact them and see where they got their information. 
As an alternative on your next viv you can trim the bristles on a paint brush so that they are somewhat stiff and use it to "paint" gorilla glue and then apply coco fiber. Once again I apologize for my approach to this situation and hope you find some usefull information on that site.


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## A&MGecko (Sep 17, 2010)

No problem, now here is some good info for me, thank you, this is what I need, help, and is very welcome and appreciate. I agree, it doesn't sound good from what I have read but it still doesn't tell much what the product does after is cured. I will also try to contact M3 directly and see what they say, most likely, either way, I will redo the whole part where I sprayed the M3 stuff just to be safe, as I remade all my false bottom I can redo all my background and sides over, most likely I just take those off and glue the coco fiber panels there. I am not in a rush so the frogs are safe and sounds in their tank now. I am in a learning process, so next time I try the gorilla glue to attach the coco fiber on, and I read that I don't even have to bake it bone dry with gorilla glue as it works well with moisture.
If you have the link for the other thread where the people decide to go against the M3 stuff please post it so I can contact those people and see what they say.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Welcome to the frog hobby Alberto!


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