# Harpo's Leuc Cube



## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

I've just got underway with my Leucomela viv. Haven't done much except experiment with some structural design. Below are some photos of the basic structure that I think I will go with. It's two pieces of manzanita that I had originally gotten for my Bakhuis viv from manzanita.com. 

The tricky part with this enclosure is that it sits in the middle of a large open area and is viewable from all for side. Also, the room can get chilly in the winter..... low sixties it possible at night.... 

_*(Question for anyone out there willing to answer..... will low sixties be an issue for the Leucomela inhabitants or will I need to find a way to heat the tank? I am prepared to create an elevated false bottom and run a water heater if needed.)*_

I am also considering an experiment with airflow.... I want to drill some holes on all four sides and create a ventilated screening to cap over it. I would likely do both lower and elevated holes to allow for a cross breeze with fresh air. The holes will be tiny, maybe 1/4 inch to half an inch at the most. 

The top of the tank is completely sealed, but I have also consider either pumping in fresh air through an opening or mounting fans to the top glass in some fashion. We'll see, I have time  (See the tiny one below... thanks Frogface!)

(I will grab some better photos... I didn't realize how hard it is to see everything with all the white counter space + shadows)


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh! Is that the first baby? Beautiful! If it is, then, he's used to low 60s 

Tank looks great. Can't wait to see it finished!


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> Oh! Is that the first baby? Beautiful! If it is, then, he's used to low 60s
> 
> Tank looks great. Can't wait to see it finished!


Yes, that's the one! That photo is from right after he decided to leave the water. He's a bit bigger now, I'll get some photos. He's plump and is a great eater! If memory serves me correctly, he was remaining out of the water about 7 or 8 days after I got him.

I hate to say it, but one of the tadpoles passed. Not really sure why but I was super bummed..... happened about a week and a half after we met. The other tadpole, _I am happy to report_, is forming his front legs and remains very active and plump! It's been a blast watching him and the froglet each get to where they are now. I look forward to getting them big enough to get into the cube.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the tad. This was their first clutch and other tads also died for no obvious reason. Don't take it to heart. The froglet looks good though!

They will love that tank. Lots of climbing space for them.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> Sorry to hear about the tad. This was their first clutch and other tads also died for no obvious reason. Don't take it to heart. The froglet looks good though!
> 
> They will love that tank. Lots of climbing space for them.


That's reassuring  I still was bummed though!

Thanks! I will grab some better photos to really detail more of the space. The tank is about 18 inches in every direction and I will attempt to fill as much of the vertical space as possible without over doing it. I love having negative space in my builds, but I was to create as much "real estate" as possible for these little guys.

Another question about the temps for you Leuc enclosures... are your vivs hitting low 60's every night this time of year? How low do they usually get? I have read other people's accounts of hitting mid/low sixties normally. I have also read others talk about hitting 50s during power outages with no issue... still though, I am always looking for as much input as possible and I do respect your experience with these little buggers!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

My house has been in the low 60s all winter. All frogs appear to be fine. I lost power a few years ago during an ice storm and the tank temps went down to the 50s. All frogs were fine. In the summer, the house is in mid 70 to upper 70s with the tanks closer to 80 with their lights. 

It might be time to get the HVAC guy out here to spruce things up, lol.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> My house has been in the low 60s all winter. All frogs appear to be fine. I lost power a few years ago during an ice storm and the tank temps went down to the 50s. All frogs were fine. In the summer, the house is in mid 70 to upper 70s with the tanks closer to 80 with their lights.
> 
> It might be time to get the HVAC guy out here to spruce things up, lol.


Haha! We have similar temp swings over here at our place, but we are at the mercy of Electricities Power not questionable HVAC! Our "municipal co op energy provider" is a complete racket and nobody can afford to keep a steady year round temperature! 

Thanks for the info. That's reassuring. I like running water heat under a false bottom, but there is just such a risk of saturated soil and its a complete circus act rigging the viv to keep the glass clear.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Been experimenting a bit more with design.... (pictures still stink with all the white.....)




























If I have the time tommorrow, I will get this thing squared up....


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Only me:

I was able to get home a few minutes early on my lunch break today. I pieced together a different false bottom than what was in the previous photos. 

I was excited to get this tank to a place of closure with the final design and hopefully get some plants in and rooting before these frogs get bigger.

I had a tub of gravel on my back porch that I had cleaned out a couple weeks ago. As I was moving it into the house, I noticed how tannin-rich the settled water was. The gravel had some other debri in it, so I didn't think anything of it....

....until I dumped in the gravel and got blasted with the stale wrench of weeks old cat piss. No tannins. Just pee. 

I was able to rinse off the false bottom and clean out the tank before the ammonia smelle settled in. I tossed the gravel in the woods and I'm getting flourite. 

Only me.


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## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

Thats all too funny. My wife and I have 4 outdoor cats and I am convinced that cats are spawn of satan(and our cats are well behaved!)


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Cat pee is about the worst smell in the world. I am so sorry.  I don't blame you for tossing the gravel, nope, not one bit.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ugh! You might think about rinsing that tank and false bottom with bleach. I don't know it for a fact but I imagine there's nasty stuff in cat pee.

I've got some substrate mixed up and in a tub. It's inside but I do have an inside cat. She's usually very well behaved about her litter box but I just went and smelled the substrate for cat pee, just in case, lol.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Not because of the pee............. but I swapped the glass. I found a deal on an 18 cube Exo and I like the vents. I was going to drill holes in the sides of the original cube, but I would rather just sell it now that I got this other deal. The dimensions are pretty much the same, so it was an easy swap.

I went back and forth about adding a background. I went against it with this one. LOL, I even bought all the materials just in case I changed my mind. Since the tank sits in the middle of an open commons area, I went against it. 

I positioned a manzanita structure dead center in the middle of the tank that is viewable from all four sides. The main branch is bolted and glued to a piece of drilled slate. The small wood piece at the base is independent from the main structure. 

I have really crappy lights on it right now, so the pictures I am taking are rough. Once I sell some reefing Panorama Pro modules, I will grab some hoods and get Jungle Dawns and UVB CFLs. 

From the front:




































Right side










Back


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

The second froglet has been OOTW for a week or so now. Here's some shots of both.... the duller frog is the younger one:


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

I removed the Button Ferns, fig and Rabbits Foot. I added 6 or 7 Episcia stolons. I am hoping they root!

I tried to grab a FTS but the lights went out before I could take a reasonable shot....



















The Fireball Broms are turning back to red.... I am excited for the color.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Looks great! And the froglets are beautiful <sniff>


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> Looks great! And the froglets are beautiful <sniff>


Thanks Kris! The froglets are pretty awesome. Total hams.

I have been meaning to ask you....what morph are these?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

They are standard leucs from parents from different sources. I would say the parents are unrelated but who knows anymore. It's safe to say they (the parents) aren't siblings


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

I want to tell a quick story about a recent experience.... I will add this to the vendor feedback, but since it has to do with this tank I want to add it here as well....

I made a purchase recently from Josh's Frogs. Two light canopies, a pair of Jungle Dawns and a pair of 13 watt CFLs. Long story short, they arrived and the CFLs were a total glitch (by no fault of Josh). I threw the CFLs into the canopies and they simply would not charge up. They would, however, work perfectly in table lamps. Strange, right!

I called the store and Josh was out delivering his kids to school.... the woman on the other end of the line said she'd pass along my troubles to him when he returned. 

I got a call back from Josh about an hour or two later and well..... he was as perplexed as me! I myself have been in the coral and reef hobby for over a decade and have had my fair share of lighting experience there..... I have never seen anything like this and neither has Josh. After a great conversation and some laughs over the situation he pointed me towards Hagen to talk with the Exo Terra support line.

I spoke with a woman on the Hagen side (not affiliated with Josh) and she had no clue what was going on. She had never seen it before and had no real suggestion for the cause. Dead end....

Josh had advised to keep him in the loop because he would help make things right no matter what.

I did. But before I contacted him I again went through the gauntlet of troubleshooting.... these dang bulbs work PERFECTLY on table lamps but simply will NOT turn on in my 18 inch Exo canopy. 

I tracked down Josh and he says he will send me replacement bulbs and if that doesn't work, he will replace the canopies. 

Oh.... I forgot to mention... in my troubleshooting I removed the 26 watt CFLs from the Bakhuis tank and placed them into them canopies... AND THEY WORKED PERFECT. It simply does not make sense.

I asked Josh if I could return the 13 watt bulbs and pay the difference to have him send me 26 watt CFLs. 

About an hour later I get two emails from Josh.... one is an invoice for the cost of 2 26watt with a CREDIT for the total cost... meaning the total cost was $0. I then get an email notification with shipping information. 

I responded asking if an RMA was available so I could return the 13s and pay the difference in the cost of the 13s vs the 26s. Josh's response was to not worry about it and let him know if it solved the glitch with the bulbs.

I got the bulbs a couple days later and they worked perfectly. 

Amazing customer service.

Amazing standard of operation.

Amazing business. Josh sets the bar pretty high not only in the herp world, but Josh sets the bar high in the general business landscape. Bravo Josh @ JoshsFrogs.com.

(OK..... so maybe this wasn't the abbrev. version  ) I will definitely post in the feedback area as well.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

frogface said:


> They are standard leucs from parents from different sources. I would say the parents are unrelated but who knows anymore. It's safe to say they (the parents) aren't siblings


Now just waiting on ours.. Ahem.. Kris. hahaha


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Nismo95 said:


> Now just waiting on ours.. Ahem.. Kris. hahaha


Fear not! Spring is in the air!


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Some FTS from all angles:

Front









Left side









Right Side









Right Side









Back


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

I released the froglets into the tank and they appear to be enjoying it. Both are very bold and have adjusted quiite nicely from the plastic bin to a 4 sided tank placed in a high traffic area of the house. 






























There is also an episcia in bloom:


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

This looks amazing. Absolutely amazing. I love the episcia floor! Looks like the stolons had no problems rooting at all.

Did you get the episcia locally? I want some!

Best,
Ash


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks Ash! 

I was pretty amazed by how willing the Episcia wereto root. One of the pink leafed (Strawberry if I remember correctly) was damaged by my own doing.... I broke the stolon + a leaf with a chunk of stolon. Both pieces are still doing great  The episcia in my other viv are already kicking out new stolons. They grow quickly..... I am predicting a lot of pruning. 

I got these from a grower on Ebay. I will look up the link later and inbox you. It was something like $5 or $6 per pair of stolons + cheap shipping. Seller had a good variety of them.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

The episcia bloom opened all the way today. The color is very deep.... the camera had a hard time grabbing it.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

I added some new plants tonight including:
Aeschynanthus gracilis
Rabbits Foot Fern
Resurrection Fern
Columnea 'Lava Flow' 
Pilea glauca 'Red Stem Tears' <----(I expect these to get trampled with time)

I will get more shots of plant placement later. Here are some random shots from this evening. The frogs are doing great and the older frog is developing his spots. I also have a couple episcia getting ready to bloom.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

The Leucs are beautiful! I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but your viv is very cute! I love it. It seems like a very excellent combination of simple and elegant. Definitely a very cool and sweet looking setup for a end table, desk, or pedestal.

Nicely done!

-Chris


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I bet the Leucs love it in there. So much to climb around on.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

kitcolebay said:


> I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but your viv is very cute!


So you have the hots for my viv, eh? 

Thanks for the compliments! I don't remember if I have a picture posted of the tank in the room, but it sits smack in the middle of an open kitchen/dining/living room area and is viewable from all sides. I'll post a shot today or tomorrow.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> I bet the Leucs love it in there. So much to climb around on.


They seem to Kris.  Both of them really started to get bold this past week. They are always rummaging around looking for critters.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)




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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

I gave my Bakhuis tank some love today, so I suppose I better show some love to the Leuc tank as well.

Added some of the same Gesneriad. Nothing much else is new... the episcia is growing like mad and flowering often. I have two in double blooms right now.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Still on the fence, but I am thinking about selling this setup w/ all plants, frogs and equipment to free up some money for a couple things we have going on here on the homefront. 

Anyone in the NC area interested? I will add a classified ad in a bit. The Repticon show is this weekend at the NC Fairgrounds and I can meet if there is any interest.


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Ohhhhh dear... temptation, temptation! I'm interested but I'm not sure I could afford it. I'll keep an eye out for the classified ad.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

I couldn't pull the trigger on selling  About a day after posting my original intent to sell..... one of the frogs began calling. That was enough for me to quickly change my mind 

Both frogs are doing awesome. Total fatties. The one calls daily. The second will go through the motion but is never audible. I am watching for aggression from the "dominant" male but both appear to be ok. I will keep an eye on things.

I started taking pictures tonight but my light timer went out before I could get any quality shots. Below is a teaser I suppose. 

The fireball broms are pupping. I snipped/moved one. The two mother plants are as red as can be. I have added another peperomia sp. also. The thing is growing like a jungle. I recently made the cover 75% covered to increase plant viability. Everything seems to have responded well. The episcia are monsterous.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Kris, I knew you'd be a quick "like" to that post 

I will grab some photos this weekend. The frogs are beautiful


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yay! Hey I have tads cooking right now if you needed to fill out that tank a bit.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> Yay! Hey I have tads cooking right now if you needed to fill out that tank a bit.


Geesh, I may take you up on that... I thought about seeking a female from another group but this may be worth the effort 

I broke down and rebuilt my old bakhuis tank. I found DOZENS of orange isopods growing from your collection. They are in the redesign now. I did end up selling that group of frogs. I hope to get an Imi Sp. and plan to start a thread soon. I am super happy with the look. I am excited to get something small in there AND audible


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Harpo said:


> Geesh, I may take you up on that... I thought about seeking a female from another group but this may be worth the effort
> 
> I broke down and rebuilt my old bakhuis tank. I found DOZENS of orange isopods growing from your collection. They are in the redesign now. I did end up selling that group of frogs. I hope to get an Imi Sp. and plan to start a thread soon. I am super happy with the look. I am excited to get something small in there AND audible


I've got some with back legs, one riding around on his dad's back, and every stage in between. Let me know what you want! 

Giant Orange Isos are great. I like them almost as much as I like frogs, lol.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> I've got some with back legs, one riding around on his dad's back, and every stage in between. Let me know what you want!
> 
> Giant Orange Isos are great. I like them almost as much as I like frogs, lol.


There had been a mid sized orange iso sitting on an orchid 16 inches into the air for the past two days. They really do have a funny personality for a bug!

What do you think? Should I grab a tad or two from you or mix up the gene pool?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Harpo said:


> There had been a mid sized orange iso sitting on an orchid 16 inches into the air for the past two days. They really do have a funny personality for a bug!
> 
> What do you think? Should I grab a tad or two from you or mix up the gene pool?


If it was me, and I was certain that the 2 I had were male, I'd look for a known female. That way you mix things up a little and know that you aren't going to end up with all males.


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## LexisaurusRex (Aug 8, 2013)

I love it so much you have no idea! You might have an idea... What kind of vine do you have wrapped around the wood


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

LexiandScott said:


> I love it so much you have no idea! You might have an idea... What kind of vine do you have wrapped around the wood


There are about 5 vines in the viv, but the one that is most prominent is Peperomia hoffmannii (isabella). The ones you are seeing in the photos are fairly new additions.... I am waiting to have them root. 

I have a new strategy (to me) of planting epiphytic vines.... I lay a mess of moss (sheet moss in this case) then overpopulate a variety of specimen in an attempt to maintain moisture (microclimate) and increase the odds for more long term rooting and growers. 

I actually got a very large pot of this Isabella from Lowes a while back for relatively cheap. I have a large mother colony still growing outside my vivs. 

Thank you for the compliments  I am having trouble capturing the depth and shadows of this viv in photo. I am happy you like it.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)




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## darrensimps (Aug 23, 2009)

Do you mind if I use your viv as a guide for my new set up? 

this is actually one on my favourite vivs I've seen so far, looks great! 

Dar


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

darrensimps said:


> Do you mind if I use your viv as a guide for my new set up?
> 
> this is actually one on my favourite vivs I've seen so far, looks great!
> 
> Dar


I don't mind but I am going to send you a bill for proper royaly payments 

Thanks for the compliments


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)




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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)




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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Can you get a picture of them side by side? Maybe toss them both into a fruit fly container (empty of course ) . Pics from the top down. I'm wondering if they are a pair. Have you seen/heard them both calling?


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> Can you get a picture of them side by side? Maybe toss them both into a fruit fly container (empty of course ) . Pics from the top down. I'm wondering if they are a pair. Have you seen/heard them both calling?


Definitely, let me see what I can get. 

The obvious male is extremely vocal throughout the day. The second one will often follow the lead and display a softer call or atleast go through the motions of calling so I am fairly sure its a male as well. I have heard lore of calling females but I do not know enough about this to make a claim of having one. 

Is there a visual indicator that you are seeing Kris?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Just body shape and size. I've never seen my female call or pretend call. It did take her quite a while to mature. Long after the male had started calling. He first called at 5 months. Then he clammed up and started again around 8-10 months. She paid him no attention until about a year old.

Looking at your pics, just looked like one might be more female shaped but I can't really say for sure without comparison pics. Leucs are hard to sex on their own.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Kris,

Both the frogs were near the glass today but I had a hard time grabbing a shot of them side by side. I was able to jot down some marking differences to tell them apart. I will determine which one is clearly calling and which one is kind of calling.... hopefully grab some video.

Frog 1 (bigger of the two):





















The photo above shows both 1 and 2. Look in the bottom right for 2....

Frog 2:


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

without knowing which one has been calling, I say frog 2 looks male and frog 1 is up in the air.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> without knowing which one has been calling, I say frog 2 looks male and frog 1 is up in the air.


I didn't want to sway your vote but that is how I was leaning as well, especially with the shape that 1 is taking -vs- 2. I will do my best to induce calling this weekend and let you know


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Kris, Frog 2 is the constant caller.


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## desertFrogger (Mar 15, 2012)

good looking leuc's


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

When my Leucs were froglets, the male was larger than the female. Then she caught up to him and they were the same size. Then she got a little bit bigger than him. Then she kept growing and now she could probably carry 2 of him around on her back


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

frogface said:


> When my Leucs were froglets, the male was larger than the female. Then she caught up to him and they were the same size. Then she got a little bit bigger than him. Then she kept growing and now she could probably carry 2 of him around on her back


Frog 1 is the bigger of the two. It will be interesting to see if it is infact a female. I have seen the two exchange calls but who knows. I have seen some monster females before  I bet yours is giant


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)




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## roktman (Apr 10, 2013)

An excellent viv with awesome frogs! A+


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## Destroyer551 (Sep 7, 2013)

Love it!

Is this an 18x18x18?


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

roktman said:


> An excellent viv with awesome frogs! A+


Thank you. Leucs are a trip....very cartoonish personality.



Destroyer551 said:


> Love it!
> 
> Is this an 18x18x18?


Thanks. Yes, its and 18 cubed. I grabbed this used a while back from a Craigslist deal.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I was unable to see if anyone replied but you mentioned some bulbs would not turn on in an exoterra top and said no one ever figured out why. I am pretty sure that the bulb base was not touching the bottom contact, these sort of things happen when you have a standard and people tweak with it on different sides. You probably could have looked inside the light and used some pliers or something to pull out the contact a little and it would have lit up.


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## Harpo (Nov 9, 2012)

Pubfiction said:


> I was unable to see if anyone replied but you mentioned some bulbs would not turn on in an exoterra top and said no one ever figured out why. I am pretty sure that the bulb base was not touching the bottom contact, these sort of things happen when you have a standard and people tweak with it on different sides. You probably could have looked inside the light and used some pliers or something to pull out the contact a little and it would have lit up.


The lower wattage Exo bulbs would not work in 4 different Exo Terra canopies that I have, yet the 26 watt bulbs all work perfectly. I used 'the touch' but didn't mess with pulling and plying. When I got to that point I gave up on trouble shooting entirely given the odd of the bulbs themselves being the culprit  

The damndest thing was that the bulbs WOULD work in regular table lamps, etc. I still have the 'bad' bulbs. I will definitely give it a look and let you know how the contacts look.


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## desertFrogger (Mar 15, 2012)

Any updated pictures?


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