# uv LED



## worldsparadox (Mar 3, 2010)

has anyone used uv LED on tads? does anyone know what exactly a uv LED emmits? I do know they work well for plants if you just give em a burst for a few minutes every week or so...


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

I used to use uv-LEDs in my vivariums as a wake-up lighting (20 minutes before the early am misting session and 1 hour before the big t-5's come on) and my pumilios used to breed and care for their tads in the tanks that contained this lighting system. The vivariums were huge though 4'x2.5'x3' and the led's were helping the mosses and tiny ferns grow on the "forest floor" .. it looked like early morning sun rays making it thru the jungle canopy onto the forest floor. My frogs love this effect, they must have learned that this is when they get fed and then they fight for the "high" spots in the vivariums. If you are placing the lights directly over the eggs, I am not sure how that will effect their development. You do have me curious as I have heard eggs respond to light. I hope someone can come up with the more technical answers you seek, but as for trial with the uv-LEDs and eggs, this is what I can offer.. GOOD LUCK.. 

Peter Keane


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## Arrynia (Dec 27, 2009)

Peter Keane said:


> I used to use uv-LEDs in my vivariums as a wake-up lighting (20 minutes before the early am misting session and 1 hour before the big t-5's come on) and my pumilios used to breed and care for their tads in the tanks that contained this lighting system. The vivariums were huge though 4'x2.5'x3' and the led's were helping the mosses and tiny ferns grow on the "forest floor" .. it looked like early morning sun rays making it thru the jungle canopy onto the forest floor. My frogs love this effect, they must have learned that this is when they get fed and then they fight for the "high" spots in the vivariums. If you are placing the lights directly over the eggs, I am not sure how that will effect their development. You do have me curious as I have heard eggs respond to light. I hope someone can come up with the more technical answers you seek, but as for trial with the uv-LEDs and eggs, this is what I can offer.. GOOD LUCK..
> 
> Peter Keane


Very interesting! While I'm not too particularly interested in the UV emission, I am interested in the effect you created. I have been trying to come up with a method of realistically providing light in a gradual manner in the morning/evening. What is the cost of these LED's?


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## worldsparadox (Mar 3, 2010)

you can get a 15 led flexable mount coated in silicone(waterproof*ish) for about 7 dollars on ebay, then you need to buy a 2$ ac adapter an i am in the process of trying to wire a few together to see if they will run on a single ac converter... so am i correct in the fact that the frogs need uvb rays when developing and when they are grown? i also found that the LED emmits light at about 382nm. UVB is between 290-320 so the led are considerd UVA so i dont know if they will have the same effect as a uvb light would. and can someone correct me if i am wrong in thinking that the frogs need uvb or if there is an easy alternative(or should i say just an easy way to get them their uv rays)

on another note what kind of light would you all suggest for a small ten gallon planted tank with maby only one tinc in it? i know light is important and i absolutly love t5(use them for everything) but i dont think they would be a good choice for something so small... also if uvb is nessisary how do you get it into the terr. if your top is glass?

sorry i am such a noob, and that im asking so many q's but im preparing to hopfully get a frog at the next reptile show and i only have a few months and i want to get everything set up now so i know it is stable

also... what is the best *temperary* enclosure for small frogs? i live near a container store that has lots of relly cool acrylic boxes that are large enough(i think) how big would it need to be for one maby two frogs and would it need air holes or should i just open the box every day to exchange air?


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## BBJ (Feb 26, 2010)

The UV for frogs is pretty well debated, and i dont think there is a definitive answer really.
But the bottom line is, you can raise eggs/tadpoles and frogs without UV light with no problems at all, which is the most common. Some people even raise frogs without any light at all.

Whether or not there is actually any benefit from using UV lighting is up to you i guess.

Boxes for rearing froglets dont need to be very large at all, in fact smaller is often better, since this makes it easier to observe them and feed them.
A 3-5 Gallon plastic box with a tight-fitting lid is ideal for 1-2 frogs. You dont need to put holes in it, the air exchange happening when you feed them is enough.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I don't think the use of UVB is really debated at all.. the current understanding is that provided that a sufficient source of D3 is available to the frogs/tadpoles in the diet then the frogs do not need UVB to develop normally.. however in other taxa (although it is also known that a number of anurans also bask..) that are percieved to not need additional sources of UVB (such as chameleons (see for example Chicago Journals - Physiological and Biochemical Zoology) and if I remember correctly snakes (AVMA - American Journal of Veterinary Research - 69(2):294 - Abstract) will bask to increase thier circulating levels of D3 if given the opportunity even when they are being supplemented with D3 via the diet. However one has to pay attention to the literature and provide areas where the animals can escape the UV exposure as there are also differences in ability to manufacture D3 depending on whether the animal in question is a shade dwelling or sun dwelling species. It should also be noted that some of the dendrobatids studied if given the opportunity will preferentially seek out calling perches that are shaded from UVB exposure ( see http://people.oregonstate.edu/~blaustea/pdfs/HanBiotropica2007.pdf ) so there should be areas in which the frogs can get away from exposure. 

I would be very careful about using UVB and tadpoles as the vast majority of studies have shown that there can be significant negative effects on the tadpoles from the exposure. 

Ed


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## spinycheek (Jan 26, 2010)

Most UV LEDS are of the longwave (UVA) type. This is standard 'blacklight' and is generally deemed safe, or has very minimal negative effects. I've never seen a UVB LED, and I'd agree, this would probably cause more harm than good, especially considering that an LED designed to emit UVB radiation will likely produce much more than what is found in nature.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Actually there are a lot of examples in the literature of damage from UVA range in captive animals as well as documented in the lab. I would suggest checking out Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery, Frye's Reptile Care or even searching the literature for references like the following SpringerLink - Journal Article. It is all dependent on exposure time and intensity. If the animal cannot escape the exposure there will be problems. 

Ed


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## worldsparadox (Mar 3, 2010)

so with the proper supplements there is no need for the uv radiation... but the use of the uva could be benificial as long as it was not a long term thing...ie: the frogs could get out of the light or the lights we not on all the time. thanks so much everyone i love a stimulating intelegent conversation to start me off in the morning


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

worldsparadox said:


> so with the proper supplements there is no need for the uv radiation... but the use of the uva could be benificial as long as it was not a long term thing...ie: the frogs could get out of the light or the lights we not on all the time. thanks so much everyone i love a stimulating intelegent conversation to start me off in the morning


I am assuming you meant UVB as UVA does not convert provitamin D to D3. 

The problem with this approach is that we don't know the exact levels of D3 to meet the total needs of the frogs (or many other animals as determining it would require a efficient means of adminstering D3 as dusting is inexact, and testing a lot of animals to destruction which is expensive, and given the rest of this sentance has some ethical ramifications..) what we do know is that the frogs respond well to those levels as determined for other domestic species.. however given the data in other taxa for both diurnal and crepuscular species, providing the option to behaviorally modify thier circulating levels of D3 can result in levels as much as 3-5 times greater that of diet supplied D3... . 

Ed


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