# Horizontal 90g Display Tank



## JPccusa

Alright, so it is happening. I pondered the idea of keeping PDFs, and after reading this forum for months, I am now on the "action" stage.

I dismantled my saltwater tank and I will be refinishing the acrylic and stand in April/May. 

I need to start planning the design. I want a tank similar to Energy's. Pretty ambitious, right? 

The difference is that my tank is MUCH smaller. 









Like Energy, I want water to touch the sides and front of the tank. I just don't like the idea of black dirt touching the visible areas. I want to have as much water as possible under the land (caves/tunnels). The water does not have to be too deep... just about 20 gallons so I can add a few cardinal tetras and a couple of corydoras for cleaning.

I would also like a waterfall/river to go from the left to the right. This will also be how I filter the water. I have a canister filter that will suck water on the right, filter it, then throw it back in through the left (waterfall). 

My concern is with clumsy PDFs that may fall in the water. How can I overcome this design challenge? How to create tunnels under the land and yet, have escape routes back to land?


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## JPccusa

This is a sketch of the tank. Ideas?


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## Energy

The PDF's aren't that clumsy. In fact they are very nimble and sure footed. Make sure there are plenty of exit points and they will be fine. If you have been on here for months you have seen the pictures of the frogs stuck to the glass? Yep even PDF's can do it -so they can pretty much climb out of anything.


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## VicSkimmr

Just create a false bottom with extra long supports?

Aqua Soil by jasonwithers, on Flickr


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## JPccusa

The tank is not too tall. The false bottom will be only about 6 inches tall.


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## VicSkimmr

Oh my bad, I think I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for ways to maximize water volume under the land portion. That's the best solution I could come up with when I was planning mine.


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## JPccusa

I am having a hard time deciding between GS, Styrofoam (polystyrene), or pink insulation foam for the water feature and background. 

The water feature would be finished with cement, while the background would be finished with silicone and moss. 

Suggestions? Thoughts?


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## Noort

I tend to use styrofoam more and more -> easier to make shapes and correct mistakes.
No experience whatsoever with the pink foam.

Then there is always the option of covering it with GS to change the look of everything...

Working with cement is new to me -it usually looks great.
(though the curing takes a long time/ the soaking afterwards to make it PH-okay as well). Just the combination GS - cement might get you into trouble, becuase the GS changes for a logish time en cement is rather inflexible.

Just take your time


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## JPccusa

Thanks for bring up that aspect of GS, Noort. I did not think about the expansion and contraction of GS and the rigidness of concrete. I probably will not cover GS with concrete. 

And yes, the curing of the concrete takes a long time until pH normalizes. I made fake rocks for the saltwater tank before, and it took two months until I was able to put them in the tank. 

@ anyone - Any insight on advantages and disadvantages in using Styrofoam vs. Pink foam, then covering it with concrete?


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## parkanz2

JPccusa said:


> Thanks for bring up that aspect of GS, Noort. I did not think about the expansion and contraction of GS and the rigidness of concrete. I probably will not cover GS with concrete.
> 
> And yes, the curing of the concrete takes a long time until pH normalizes. I made fake rocks for the saltwater tank before, and it took two months until I was able to put them in the tank.
> 
> @ anyone - Any insight on advantages and disadvantages in using Styrofoam vs. Pink foam, then covering it with concrete?


I've been on a stint of telling people about this whenever it comes up just so people are informed...

Another member (Melas I think?) found some information that polystyrene (pink insulation foam, styrofoam, etc.) can leach into the water and disrupt some endocrine pathways so I decided not to use it.

That being said, a lot of people have used it with no ill effects noticed. Just spreading the work!

I've used grout over GS and did get some cracking. I think it was multifactorial though... not waiting long enough for the GS to settle, and using thinned grout which weakens it. I just filled in some cracks yesterday so we'll see how it holds up.

Hopefully I didn't confuse you too much!

Max


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## the_deeb

parkanz2 said:


> Another member (Melas I think?) found some information that polystyrene (pink insulation foam, styrofoam, etc.) can leach into the water and disrupt some endocrine pathways so I decided not to use it.


Do you happen to have a link to this? I'd like to learn more about it.

I've used pink and blue extruded polystyrene in a a couple of tanks with no noticeable problems. That being said, it's mostly been coated with drylok, and I've only tried it with fish not frogs. I found that it's easier to sculpt than regular styrofoam.


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## skanderson

i have all 3 of the products you mentioned making up my rock/waterfall feature. i liked using both styro and the blue foam because they have a different surface texture when carving making the layers look more like different layers in a sedimentary bed to my eye. the great stuff was used to glue the layers together and for accents. keep us updated.


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## JPccusa

Got my tank back today (being polished to remove scratches). It looks like new! 

I also got some manzanita. What do you think? How should I arrange the pieces inside? All suggestions are welcome. 

First, the main piece. It will need to be cut somewhere to fit inside the tank. 













































Second piece:



























Piece that I got for free. I am thinking about using this one as a piece of decaying wood, on the floor.


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## JPccusa

Alright... I have not done anything with the manzanita yet. I am still going back and forth with designs on my mind. UGH! Once school is over in 3 weeks, I will just DO IT!

In the meantime, I am getting ready for bugs. I gathered some supplies and created my own culture cups (I enjoy DIY). 

Let me know what you think:

I am using this type of snapware storage containers to keep all cultures together. The plan is to fill the bottom with water to prevent mite infestation. If water proves to be unpractical, I can still use mite paper. 

The shorter cultures cups, which will be used for isopods, fit in each section. 









For the taller cultures cups, which will be used for FFs, I cut off the bottom of one section.









Inside the snapware, everything is really close but nothing touches. 









Here you can see the isopods cups on the bottom and the FFs cups on the top. 









Finally, for the springtails culture container, I made a vent, covered it with no-see-um, added some filter media left over from my saltwater tank, then covered all of that with another layer of no-see-um.


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## Ed

water in the bottom of the storage containers is unlikely to stop the mites since they are too small to break the surface film. 
Housing fruit fly and isopod cultures in the same storage containers is asking for trouble.... 

I'm not entirely sure what you were intending with the springtail lids. Were you trying to keep the springtails in? Mites out? Reduce air flow? I doubt it will keep small springtails in or mites out but it will probably reduce air exchange which could be an issue depending on the type of springtails you are going to culture. 

Ed


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## Pumilo

Ed pretty much summed up my opinions on this.
I'm guessing that your intention with the filters is to add some ventilation, while keeping springtails in and mites out. Unfortunately, I don't think it will work. Springtails will still escape and mites will get in. Baby springtails and baby mites are like dust. They are sooo tiny! You are not going to be able to find anything more effective than the .3 micron filters. They are just ideal for this purpose. You can find them here by the 10 pack. Fungi Perfecti: micron air filters If you can use 10, that's the way to go. Depending on the size you get, they are about $12 to $15 shipped. If you only want one or two, I can help you with that. Mine are more expensive per filter, but cheaper if you only need a couple. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/81074-3-micron-filter-discs.html
I know you asked what I thought about this portion and I only commented on the discs because Ed covered the rest. Mite paper will work much better. I did an experiment where I floated a bunch of Pink Springtails, Temperate White Springtails, and Mites on the surface of some water. The mites floated and lived for days. Some of them eventually touched the edge and climbed out.


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## JPccusa

Ed said:


> water in the bottom of the storage containers is unlikely to stop the mites since they are too small to break the surface film.
> Housing fruit fly and isopod cultures in the same storage containers is asking for trouble....
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what you were intending with the springtail lids. Were you trying to keep the springtails in? Mites out? Reduce air flow? I doubt it will keep small springtails in or mites out but it will probably reduce air exchange which could be an issue depending on the type of springtails you are going to culture.
> 
> Ed





Pumilo said:


> Ed pretty much summed up my opinions on this.
> I'm guessing that your intention with the filters is to add some ventilation, while keeping springtails in and mites out. Unfortunately, I don't think it will work. Springtails will still escape and mites will get in. Baby springtails and baby mites are like dust. They are sooo tiny! You are not going to be able to find anything more effective than the .3 micron filters. They are just ideal for this purpose. You can find them here by the 10 pack. Fungi Perfecti: micron air filters If you can use 10, that's the way to go. Depending on the size you get, they are about $12 to $15 shipped. If you only want one or two, I can help you with that. Mine are more expensive per filter, but cheaper if you only need a couple. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/81074-3-micron-filter-discs.html
> I know you asked what I thought about this portion and I only commented on the discs because Ed covered the rest. Mite paper will work much better. I did an experiment where I floated a bunch of Pink Springtails, Temperate White Springtails, and Mites on the surface of some water. The mites floated and lived for days. Some of them eventually touched the edge and climbed out.


Holy s**t, I had it all wrong! LOL
I seriously did not think mites and baby springs were THAT small (dust). 
Back to the drawing board, and I will make sure to consider this modification to the springtails culturing method.

Thanks Ed and Doug.


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## JPccusa

Following the advices above, I got the .3 micron filters. Would air be passively exchanged through those?!?!? I do not doubt your knowledge and the effectiveness of the filters, but I am baffled by how it would actually work. Air barely passes through it when placed over my mouth. 

Here is a picture. Note that the filter is white... the yellow tint is a camera correction. 










I also got supplies for the FFs cultures. I am almost ready for the actual FEEDERS!!!


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## dendrothusiast

JPccusa said:


> Let me know what you think:
> 
> I am using this type of snapware storage containers to keep all cultures together. The plan is to fill the bottom with water to prevent mite infestation. If water proves to be unpractical, I can still use mite paper.


...hey at least it was a good try. I'm sure you'll figure something in the end


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## Ed

Yes, they do passively exchange air. Some of the isopods like the purples have early stages that are easily as small as springtails. They also can get through the fruit fly mesh (I often find them scattered on the top of the lid where they got through the fruit fly mesh and dessicated). 

Ed


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## JPccusa

Small update:

Parents are in town from Brazil for my graduation this coming Saturday. My dad has been helping me refinish the tank stand and canopy. He took it all apart, sanded, and now has started staining the wood to a espresso brown (dark wood will look good against the brightness of the tank, I think). 

The result is much darker than appears in the picture









A lot more to go


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## JPccusa

More progress this week. All wood is stained and now varnishing started. 










Also, got a 50 lb. bag of red infield condition today for $15.


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## JPccusa

This is what I did this past month.










Quarantine 10G (AKA practice) tank


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## JPccusa

I'm trying to position the manzanita that I have. What do you think? Opine, please.














































By the way, there are 2 extra pieces of food on top that is not being used. Should I add them or replace something inside with them?


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## volsgirl

Great looking stand/hood! Thumbs up 

I know exactly where to use those extra driftwood pieces.......in MY future 90 gallon viv. LOL!!!


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## GRIMM

I haven't viewed the rest of your thread, so I don't know what your plan is....But...

If you are brave, you could cut apart that piece that looks like a tree and make a layout that flows a bit better. I think it would be cool if you had the wood sloping down towards the front from each corner, with the fattest piece farther back. I would use all the wood you have, and more if you have it.


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## dendrothusiast

If I remember I believe those frogs come from streams and rivers with a lot of fallen wood and boulders. If I were doing this I would go along with something similar to this type of landscape form









I wouldn't be afraid to cut some of those manzanita pieces to really get the use out all of them. As for the boulders I would probably attempt to to make several out of styrofoam. If not I'd give up and probably have scott from vivariums works come up with something. There's a lot of cool plants to play with in that type of environment especially if you run a stream through it.


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## Hak

I personally like your current placement of wood. Especially the large piece on the left as it shows of the wonderful gnarl toward the top of the piece. The other piece would look nice as you have already said, just placed on the viv floor like a decaying felled branch.


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## kingfisherfleshy

Very cool. 

I like your ideas, and the manzi looks great. 

Some really nice pieces, Im sure if you tinker long enough you will find a placement you love. Ill try to follow along with this build. 

Good luck!


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## masterkush

Looking good but I would have the wood flow down words to the front of the tank.


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## JPccusa

Thanks for the ideas. I ended up changing the layout.
I moved the pieces from the left corner to the center, close to the front panel. The supporting "trunk" will have its foot wet at all times. 

I will try to cut up the tree (former center) and rearranging the branches like you suggested, Grimm. We'll see how that goes. 

A challenge that I found with this tank is that it is quite narrow (barely 44 cm), so any branch arrangement I try to do either lays sideways or it looks like twigs sticking out of the back (instead of branches). 

@Dendrothusiast - you are right. A. pepperi are found alongside streams in Peru, although a stream is not necessary for their well being in captivity. My setup will have water touching the front and sides of the tank (I don't like to see under the false bottom). It will also have natural river rocks of various sizes. I am debating if I will circulate the water through an external canister filter or if it will be stagnant. 

I am also debating if I want a full, partial, or no background. All those decisions will be made on the fly. 

Anyway, I'll work on the tank this weekend. More pictures in the next few days.

Question: Do I need to be able to access the frogs if I want to? The question sounds weird, but coming from the saltwater hobby, I know that rocks and decoration do get in the way when you are trying to catch flighty animals. With a lot of hiding places and branches in the tank, do I need to worry about catching frogs later?


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## JPccusa

Found these fans on eBay for $0.99 each. Bought two of those for internal air circulation. 









Here are the details:



> Graphic VGA Video Card CPU Heatsink Cooler Cooling Fan
> Diameter]: 3.5cm (± 0.1cm), box diameter of *4.0cm* (± 0.1cm)
> [Bearing]: oil seal
> [Hole distance]: 3.5x3.5x3.5cm
> [Take I]: 2.0 2pin
> [Voltage]: *12Vdc*
> [Electric current]: 0.22 ± 0.02 Amp
> [Color]: Figure
> [Material]: UV
> [Speed]: 3200 ± 10% RPM
> [Wind]: *22.8CFM*
> [Noise]:* 14.0dB ± 10%*
> [Speed Control]: PWM
> [Life]: 30,000 hours (25 ℃, 45 ~ 85% relative humidity environment)
> [Ambient temperature]: 70 ℃
> [Cable length]: 11.0cm


Bold is mine. Seems to be a pretty quiet and powerful cheap fan.


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## Lbacha

Check out my borneo tank thread all the rocks are foam I'll post some pic in a little bit.


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## Lbacha

Lbacha said:


> Check out my borneo tank thread all the rocks are foam I'll post some pic in a little bit.




























Here is the tank with some fake roots in it what do you all think?


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## The Wolfe

Personally I think that it look better with the roots, also the roots will add a litter extra climbing space to you viv. By the way great viv I love it! Whatever lives in their is very lucky, it's like a little pice of jungle in a tank!
keep us posted.

Thanks 
The Wolfe


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## JPccusa

The fans finally arrived from China. It took only one month.


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## JPccusa

Started working on the background - GS covered with Titebond III and ABG. I am not doing the background directly at the tank (don't want to ruin it). 

Because of the small openings of my tank, I am forced to create the background in sections. I am using old light fixture cover panels (acrylic) as the base. The background is cut to size, but I am using more acrylic panels to catch the GS mess over the edges. 

I sprayed GS in a pattern that would resemble vines and/or roots. I added pieces of manzanita for depth. 

The two square tubes in the middle are for air circulation. BTW, I am not sure I am completely happy with the tiny fans I got. They are quiet, but they do not move as much air as I expected (too high expectation?). IDK how to measure wind speed, so I have to trust the manufacturer's "22.8CFM" description. 

Sorry for the night time crappy pictures. Will try to take some more today.









For size comparison, my sandal is size 11.


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## JPccusa

More updates.

I siliconed pieces of flat cork into the background.


































For the logs (internal air circulation), besides some pieces of flat cork, I also siliconed bark chips.

















I started working on the Titebond + Tree Fern yesterday. I used a food processor to break down the tree fern. One panel down, two more to go. 








I will cover the holes in the logs with brown mesh (fabric).


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## frankpayne32

Looking good. I like the idea for internal air circulation.


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## JPccusa

Worked on the background a little more. First layer is done. I might do a second layer so all the three panels have the same texture and color (middle one is currently looking different). This is the general look so far:


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## JPccusa

Update: Layer of turface and some of the ABG went in. Still missing the leaf litter layer. It's amazing how much vertical space you lose!

Fans are connected and working. I hope they keep the walls clear of fog. I'll see when I get home tonight. 

Next steps: stones, water feature, vines, leaf litter, planting, seeding with bugs, etc.









Picture looks more flat and purple than real life.


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## frankpayne32

The wood looks great in there.


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## JPccusa

Thanks. LOTS of modifications until I got to this point. Grimm and others have convinced me to chop off the long branches that I had. Now I know that was the right decision. I am happy with this layout (for now). A few plants on the branches will make them pop even more.


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## kingfisherfleshy

Update Bump


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## JPccusa

kingfisherfleshy said:


> Update Bump


 

Scratching my head...


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## frankpayne32

JPccusa said:


> Scratching my head...


Haha apparently your update from today was not current enough.


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## SLiK JiM

It's really starting to take shape now! I remember looking at this build near the start and the progress has been slow and steady! 

I like the fake trees with bark, very neat! Will have to try something similar myself!


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## McBobs

Looks great to me! 

Can't wait to see where this all ends up at!


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## JPccusa

Now with rocks. 

Not sure if it is enough, but I will wait until I add the water. Water feature goes on the left. I was able to use some of my live rock pieces (mementos) in there. Next I will work on the canister filter. 










*Question*: Do I need to worry about the gaps between the rocks? Would frogs or, eventually maybe tads, get in the gaps?


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## frankpayne32

JPccusa said:


> Now with rocks.
> 
> Not sure if it is enough, but I will wait until I add the water. Water feature goes on the left. I was able to use some of my live rock pieces (mementos) in there. Next I will work on the canister filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Question*: Do I need to worry about the gaps between the rocks? Would frogs or, eventually maybe tads, get in the gaps?


Honestly I wouldn't worry about it. But there is still a slim chance. Dendrobates and Phyllobates are better and smarter swimmers than people give them credit for. Not sure about Ranitomeya. Will you be filling in the entire bottom with water? Where is your land area going to be?


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## JPccusa

There will be only a small amount of water to resemble a stream going over the rocks, only about 2 or 3 inches. Some of the rocks will be exposed. Not sure if it classifies the viv as a paludarium, but oh well. 

The land part is everything in the middle, roughly about 4 ft. by 1 ft (under and behind branches in the pictures).


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## frankpayne32

JPccusa said:


> There will be only a small amount of water to resemble a stream going over the rocks, only about 2 or 3 inches. Some of the rocks will be exposed. Not sure if it classifies the viv as a paludarium, but oh well.
> 
> The land part is everything in the middle, roughly about 4 ft. by 1 ft (under and behind branches in the pictures).


OK, I gotcha. I wasn't sure because of the thread title. In that case I definitely wouldn't worry about frogs drowning.


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## JPccusa

My concern is not much of frogs and tads drowning, but of them getting into spaces that they either can't get out on their own or of them becoming inaccessible.


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## frankpayne32

JPccusa said:


> My concern is not much of frogs and tads drowning, but of them getting into spaces that they either can't get out on their own or of them becoming inaccessible.


I guess it's a possibility, but they are pretty squirmy. Usually if they can get in somewhere they can get out. If you're really worried you could fill in the gaps with sand.


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## JPccusa

Since this is a biotope tank (Peru), here is a plant list draft:

- Adiantum peruvianum
- Anthurium scandens var. latifolium
- Columnea orientandina
- Columnea purpureovittata
- Columnea spathulata
- Episcia fimbriata
- Fittonia argyroneura
- Fittonia verschaffeltii
- Geogenanthus ciliatus
- Geogenanthus undatus
- Maranta leuconeura
- Marcgravia rectiflora
- Microgramma squamulosa
- Microgramma lycopodioides
- Monstera dubia
- Nautilocalyx lynchii 
- Peperomia peruviana
- Peperomia prostata
- Peperomia puteolata
- Peperomia tricolor
- Philodendron grazielae
- Philodendron mamei
- Pilea microphylla
- Pilea spruceana
- Piper sylvaticum 
- Pleopeltis polypodioides
- Selaginella apoda
- Selaginella erythropus
- Utricularia calycifida
- Zootrophion atropurpureum 

I am using Steven's list to choose some plants. I know almost nothing about plants well suited for vivariums (size, humid conditions, etc.) so *please help me exclude and add plants to this list*. 

I purposely left out orchids, aquatics and bromeliads. I will see what Andy and other local people have first.


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## JPccusa

Just purchased Pellia (Monosolenium tenerum)

I have some sidewalk moss (Tortula ruralis?) that has been growing in a jar for over 2 years. It will get treated and planted soon. 

Now looking for Riccia fluitans and Mini Pellia (Riccardia chamedryfolia).


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## therizman2

Dont put Pilea microphyllla in unless you want it all over your tank.

For the Riccia fluitans, check aquabid.com


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## kingfisherfleshy

Update bump? 

Just kidding, looking good!


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## JPccusa

This is the first video showing the vivarium's progress. I just installed the water feature. In and out tubes need to be finished to blend with background. Front glass was wet from recent misting. There are total 5 gallons of RO water in the tank.


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## JPccusa

Internal circulation fans stopped working yesterday. I checked the power supply and it is fried. Tried using a different power supply but fans are not working. I wonder if everything is toasted. I also wonder if the fans toasted the wall wart or the other way around. Will work on a replacement eventually. Makes me lazy to think I will have to remove part of the substrate and background in order to replace the fans. 

On a better note, I got the Riccia fluitans on Friday. That stuff is DIRTY, directly from a *pond* in Michigan. Here is a picture of what has settled to the bottom of the tank.










The stuff looks weird, as if it was blended before I got it. Since I have never seen R. fluitans in person, I am not sure if it looks right.
Anyways, I washed it many times with RO water on a strainer, and now everything is in a 10 g "quarantine" tank. I have not seen any kind of life (snails, worms, etc.) but I'd rather be safe than sorry (Jon would be proud of me). 










Oh, and I think I got a lot more than I will need.


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## dendrothusiast

Looks all good JP. Just take it and spread it out all over the substrate and wood wherever it stays wet the most and receives the most light. Until a mister is set up in there or your ready to do some frequent hand misting just keep it in the ten gal until your ready.


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## JPccusa

I was out of town for a business trip (Wed. thru Sun). Fed all bug cultures before leaving. Came home yesterday to find one of my springtail cultures partially suffocated. Only smaller bugs survived. Dumped the bodies and the survivors in my tank. Good thing I had already split the mother culture and I still have bugs to keep going. I immediately vented any sealed lids I was using (coffee filters on top). 

*Lesson*: If your bug cultures are not vented, ask someone to open the cultures every other day until you return.


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## Rusty_Shackleford

JP this tank looks great!!!! You clearly thought it out very well. I know the process of building a viv is very fluid and things often change on the fly. This turned out awesome!!! I can't wait to see it all fully planted and grown in with frogs living in it. Very well done!!!!
I wouldn't worry too much about tads getting inbetween the rocks. If they can wiggle their way in, they can wiggle their way out.


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## JPccusa

Bit the bullet and removed the fans for testing. A post-mortem shows the electronics having water and debris. 










The fan's "front" is the one facing my hand. 










I probably would have no problems with water and electricity should these fans be blowing air downwards. Unfortunately that would do me no good.


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## Hlabov

dendrothusiast said:


> If I remember I believe those frogs come from streams and rivers with a lot of fallen wood and boulders. If I were doing this I would go along with something similar to this type of landscape form
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be afraid to cut some of those manzanita pieces to really get the use out all of them. As for the boulders I would probably attempt to to make several out of styrofoam. If not I'd give up and probably have scott from vivariums works come up with something. There's a lot of cool plants to play with in that type of environment especially if you run a stream through it.


By the way. This vivarium is in London ZOO


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## FrogBoyMike

tank looks like its coming along great! cant wait to see the end result


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## JPccusa

Took a panoramic picture of the tank today. The middle messed up a little, but not too bad. It is so hard to show depth.


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## JPccusa

Got new fans to replace the cheap (and very bad) ones. I'm impressed so far. Much more wind. I also coated the electronic parts of the fans with silicone II. 

I actually learned that silicone III (more specifically the acetic acid) would destroy the digital board. 










Also got some long forceps to help me in the next phase of this project - planting.


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## JPccusa

Planting has been painfully slow. 

I have added mosses (_Monosolenium tenerum_, _Riccia fluitans_, _Tortula ruralis_) and a few plants (_Peperomia prostrata_, _Philodendron ornatum_, and _Calathea undulata_) to the big tank. The _ornatum_ and the _undulata_ look really bad, possibly dead, after shipping, uprooting, bleaching, and replanting. I talked to the experts here and there could be several reasons why the plants are looking bad. Time will tell if I killed them. 

I have also added mosses, _Peperomia prostrata_, _Scindapsus pictus_, _Begonia luzonensis_, and _Tradescantia zebrina_ to my grow out tank. Those are doing great. Here are a few pics:


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## cyck22

JP the tank is looking great. I really like the way your water feature flows the length of the tank up against the glass - it's a really cool concept!


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## JPccusa

Thanks! Energy's tank was the inspiration for this one. I am *really* pleased with the result. Now if only the plants would grow in faster.


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## JPccusa

JPccusa said:


> Since this is a biotope tank (Peru), here is a plant list draft:
> 
> - Adiantum peruvianum
> - Anthurium scandens var. latifolium
> - Columnea orientandina
> - Columnea purpureovittata
> - Columnea spathulata
> - Episcia fimbriata
> - Fittonia argyroneura
> - Fittonia verschaffeltii
> - Geogenanthus ciliatus
> - Geogenanthus undatus
> - Maranta leuconeura
> - Marcgravia rectiflora
> - Microgramma squamulosa
> - Microgramma lycopodioides
> - Monstera dubia
> - Nautilocalyx lynchii
> - Peperomia peruviana
> - Peperomia prostata
> - Peperomia puteolata
> - Peperomia tricolor
> - Philodendron grazielae
> - Philodendron mamei
> - Pilea microphylla
> - Pilea spruceana
> - Piper sylvaticum
> - Pleopeltis polypodioides
> - Selaginella apoda
> - Selaginella erythropus
> - Utricularia calycifida
> - Zootrophion atropurpureum
> 
> I am using Steven's list to choose some plants. I know almost nothing about plants well suited for vivariums (size, humid conditions, etc.) so *please help me exclude and add plants to this list*.
> 
> I purposely left out orchids, aquatics and bromeliads. I will see what Andy and other local people have first.


I exchanged many emails with "plant people" regarding this list. As a result, it has been DRASTICALLY reduced. 
I am not done adding plants, but here are the plants I've got so far:
- Peperomia prostrata
- Peperomia rotundifolia
- Philodendron ornatum
- Calathea undulata
- Marcgravia rectifolia
- Geogenanthus undatus
- Monstera dubia
- Anubias nana Petit
- Microgramma lycopodioides
- Microgramma piloselloides

Mosses:
- Riccia fluitans
- Monosolenium tenerum
- Tortula ruralis


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## JPccusa

A few closeup pictures. Took those after spraying the tank hence the "wetness."


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## diggenem

I love the root work!!!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## swope2bc

JPccusa said:


> Bit the bullet and removed the fans for testing. A post-mortem shows the electronics having water and debris.
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> The fan's "front" is the one facing my hand.
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> I probably would have no problems with water and electricity should these fans be blowing air downwards. Unfortunately that would do me no good.



Just read your build looking for a variety of info on air circulation.. I saw the deals you built in the back, where the fans built into there somehow? Do you have pictures of where they are placed? 

Great job btw, when do you plan to add pdfs?


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## JPccusa

I made the ventilation "trunks" out of plastic (corrugated "SALE" signs), covered them with Great Stuff then carved it, added a few details, then covered the entire thing with silicone and bark chunks. The back is sealed with pond liner (I did not wanted to risk any frogs getting chopped up by the fans). 

The fans fit snugly inside the trunks. I hot glued them in place, air blowing upwards. You can see some details here and here. These are the most detailed pics I have of the fan trunks, unfortunately. 

I have no idea when I will add PDFs. Probably in about 2 or 3 months (after quarantine is done).


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## swope2bc

JPccusa said:


> I made the ventilation "trunks" out of plastic (corrugated "SALE" signs), covered them with Great Stuff then carved it, added a few details, then covered the entire thing with silicone and bark chunks. The back is sealed with pond liner (I did not wanted to risk any frogs getting chopped up by the fans).
> 
> The fans fit snugly inside the trunks. I hot glued them in place, air blowing upwards. You can see some details here and here. These are the most detailed pics I have of the fan trunks, unfortunately.
> 
> I have no idea when I will add PDFs. Probably in about 2 or 3 months (after quarantine is done).



Yeah I saw those while reading through. I was just wondering how low in the "trunks" the fans where placed.. Trying to figure out how you got enough moisture to burn them up... I just placed mine inside on the lid.. They are only about 1/4" from the plexy cover so it restricts the airflow a little bit but I think its still enough..


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## JPccusa

The fans were as high as possible inside the trunk. 
The moisture/water came in through the mesh and probably through condensation as well. Since then I have replaced the fans and I coated the circuit boards with silicone II (unfortunately silicone I is not safe for circuit boards).


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## swope2bc

JPccusa said:


> The fans were as high as possible inside the trunk.
> The moisture/water came in through the mesh and probably through condensation as well. Since then I have replaced the fans and I coated the circuit boards with silicone II (unfortunately silicone I is not safe for circuit boards).


Cool thanks, mine are pointing down.. Not sure if that's correct or not but the fans where free so if they give up ill do it different next time lol.


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## VenomR00

If you want better plant growth from the one in photo #4, I would lay it horizontally so the plant and shoot the growth up rather then sideways.


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## JPccusa

The Marcgravia rectifolia? You'd lay it on its side on the substrate? I heard that is a very slow grower (I have not seen any growth yet out of mine).


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## VenomR00

No attach it to the wood sideways. That is how I have seen a lot of people grow it because it sends out shoots on the side.


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## diggenem

JPccusa said:


> Now with rocks.
> 
> Not sure if it is enough, but I will wait until I add the water. Water feature goes on the left. I was able to use some of my live rock pieces (mementos) in there. Next I will work on the canister filter.
> 
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> *Question*: Do I need to worry about the gaps between the rocks? Would frogs or, eventually maybe tads, get in the gaps?


May i ask where did you get the wood from in this build. They are nice!!!


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## JPccusa

Take a look at the beginning of this thread. They are manzanita from someone's property up north (Craigslist ad). The piece on the left was a branch broken up into smaller pieces and "Great Stuffed" back together.


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## pavochavo

Looks killer! The manzanita really works in that viv.


Robert


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## JPccusa

Feeding station at work.


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## JPccusa

I have to rework the top of my acrylic tank. The acrylic lids currently being used warp and the corners lift enough for frogs to get out, and I am sure they would if they could walk upside down. 

This is what the tank looks like: 



























Back vents and holes are frog proof, but does anyone have any idea on how to frog proof the lids? 

I was thinking about using E-channels around all 4 sides of each opening, then have 1/4" glass work just like sliding doors would, just horizontal instead of vertical. Would this work with the warping of the tank itself, or could it crack the glass? Maybe aluminum channels instead of plastic for extra sturdiness? 

Because of the canopy, I cannot have flip open lids.


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## skarasek

You could keep it simple and just run a bead of silicone on top of the acrylic, let it cure, and set a piece of glass on top of it? To get access to the tank, just pick up the glass, slide it over or whatever. Gravity would hold it down firmly enough to keep frogs from pushing out.


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## McBobs

skarasek said:


> You could keep it simple and just run a bead of silicone on top of the acrylic, let it cure, and set a piece of glass on top of it? To get access to the tank, just pick up the glass, slide it over or whatever. Gravity would hold it down firmly enough to keep frogs from pushing out.


Don't underestimated the strength of a frog! It would surprise you just how strong they can be!

If it were my tank, I would silicone the glass tops down, then use a razor blade to cut it free so that you know you have a good seal from the silicone. Then I would use a couple simple Velcro straps to hold the lids down. Should have enough pressure to keep any wildlife from making a great escape and would be easy to release to grant access to the inside of the tank

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2


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## JPccusa

I updated the lids... from warpy acrylic to glass on tracks.







The tracks were fixed to the acrylic using double sided tape. I am liking the results so far. 
All gaps between the 2 glass sheets and sides were filled with silicone I. Not even fruit flies can scape now.


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## krisco77

Hi, I am new to Dendroboard but I really enjoyed your build. I was just curious if you could shed some light on how you built the floor of your tank. I ask because I was unsure how you built the stream without the water simply soaking into the soil. I have seen how others approached it, but I was unsure how you accomplished it. I really like your build, and I would like to get your input here. Thank you in advance.


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## JPccusa

My tank has a false bottom that slopes forward and to the sides. The structure is made out of eggcrate and zipties covered with bug screen. 
The water level in my tank does not get high enough to touch the substrate. See all the rocks in the front and sides? They cover the eggcrate/screen where water is supposed to be. The rocks also help to hold the substrate in place. Some of the substrate and leaf litter fall into the water without any negative effect. 
Let me know if that still doesn't address your question.


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