# Yes or no red fluorite questions



## dan d (Aug 9, 2008)

I have read the post (almost a book) on the ultimate clay based soil, very interesting read. Made a lot of sense to me. First off I only have 2 small tanks (12 x 12 x 18 exo terra's) for intermedius. I was looking for yes or no answers on red aquarium flourite, and yes I have searched the forum, gave up on my search because all I see is something else is cheaper. 

It is not cheaper for me, I live in a very small town, our little pet store sells a bag of fluorite for under $20 bucks right on my way home from work, this would do both tanks, no ordering or shipping or extensive mixing up of materials, fast & easy & under $20. Plus I'm supporting my local ma & pa pet store, something people seem to forget about.

Can I just dump this in my tank and place some leaf litter on top and be done ?

I read just enough posts to scare me on the soil PH, is fluorite ok ?

Would I need a false bottom of hydroton ? If so, Why, fluorite can be submerged in aquarium water and I have been assured it won't clump or degrade.

Any other concerns ? I want the best of both worlds, simplicity of fluorite but benefits of a clay soil.

Sorry, if I gave up to early on my search, but everything I found said ________ is cheaper, or you need to be a scientist and mix up some mysterious magical potion, my tank is too small for a serious microfauna setup, but yet not to small for the benefits of the frogs being in contact and seeding springtails in clay, even if I will need to reseed occasionally.
Dan


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

You can do that but you will NOT get the same benefits of a homemade clay soil. You will not get any of the benefits from the frogs picking up bits of clay and benefiting from the calcium in it. The microfauna will also not get the benefits of the calcium. Can I point you to my clay recipe? It is designed after the "clay gurus" from the ultimate thread and several of them gave it their stamp of approval. It basically simplifies things and puts it in a straightforward recipe. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63732-clay-substrate-how.html


----------



## ryangreenway (Apr 30, 2010)

I second Doug's recipe. I made it this week after dreading making a clay substrate for so long, and it was actually quite easy!


----------



## sean823 (Oct 21, 2008)

I've used both fluorite and the clay based substrate in my Vivariums. As has been stated, the fluorite does not offer the benefits of the clay based substrate. 
As far as your questions regarding the use of fluorite, yes I would encourage you to use a false bottom. Make sure to cover the fluorite completely with leaf litter, the fluorite is light and will stick to the frogs.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Fluorite is pretty similar to Turface. I love to put a 1 inch layer of Turface over my false bottom, followed by my homemade Clay substrate or ABG mix. When I once tried skipping the false bottom, the turface was wicking too much moisture up into the substrate. I tore it down and added the false bottom.


----------



## dan d (Aug 9, 2008)

Pumilo said:


> You can do that but you will NOT get the same benefits of a homemade clay soil. You will not get any of the benefits from the frogs picking up bits of clay and benefiting from the calcium in it. The microfauna will also not get the benefits of the calcium. Can I point you to my clay recipe? It is designed after the "clay gurus" from the ultimate thread and several of them gave it their stamp of approval. It basically simplifies things and puts it in a straightforward recipe. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63732-clay-substrate-how.html


Yes that mixture is simpler to comprehend, I also liked the mention of where to get mycorrhizae inoculants, as I didn't have a clue prior. Now I'm really confused as I was pretty set on using fluorite, but your mix would give the benefit of calcium supplementation.
Dan


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I guess you want to ask yourself what you are working with. If you are working with egg feeders or plan on morphing froglets in the main viv, then it's a no brainer...A calcium supplemented clay substrate offers some great incentives. If not, it may not be as important for what you are doing. Personally I think it's always a good thing, but is most useful for any vivs that will have young froglets hopping around.


----------



## dan d (Aug 9, 2008)

I am working with( intermedius Imitators ) egg feeders and I plan on morphing out in the tank, I guess it's a no brainer. I already have a false bottom in the tank (hydroton layer) I already have a layer of fluorite and a log with bromeliads and 2 imitator's in there. It is easy enough too lift out the log with the frogs and all my bromeliads and set it in another tank while I add a layer of this new clay mix. One thing I have noticed in the few days this tank has been set up is the frogs are tracking some fluorite residue on the glass, The frogs look very clean and I don't see the fluorite on them when they are on the glass, but i guess some tracking of this is inevitable. I like the fact of the frogs being in contact with the clay for added bennifits of ingesting some clay particles, plus possible calcium absorption thru the skin contact. I will create a pin oak leaf pile (with an ocasional piece of mushroom) for he springtails in the corner of the tank.

Is your substrate goin to cause tracking (residue) on the glass ? If I go with a leaf layer I lose some benefits of the frogs ingesting and possibly absorbing calcium ?

I know where to get springtails, I have cultures going right now, is there a source for any other microfauna ?

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Your log will smash and compact the clay. I would leave it in place and just put the clay all around it. If that is going to cover too much of it, then put the log on supports and then pile clay around it.
Without enough leaf litter, your microfauna will suffer. I like lots and lots of leaf litter, like a couple inches average thickness. Then leave one area open so you can reap the benefits of the calcium in the clay. This will be your feeding area. Plus, your dusting calcium will constantly be replenishing the calcium in the clay. Keeping this area away from the edge should help with any tracking concerns.
You are going to want to find some isopods/woodlice (same thing) too. I may be shipping some of mine soon with the weather getting warmer. I have dwarf white, and limited quantities of giant orange and dwarf gray.


----------



## dan d (Aug 9, 2008)

Thank you very much Pumilo !
That last post sounds like the plan I will use, send me a P.M. If you want to sell me some Isopods, I'm very fascinated with seeding my tank with springtails and isopods.

Thanks again for helping me make up my mind on this, I typically ignore advice when someone comes along and says throw out your way, you have to do it this way. You worked with my thinking and I appreciate that ! I can easily work around the log which is cork so it's not that heavy but i can leave it in place and work around it. Your idea of placing leaves around the outer perimeter also sounds good, I will still have some bare clay like I originally wanted, but the leaves around the perimeter will eliminate (or help tremendously) the tracking on the glass plus provide structure for isopods !

Let me know if you want to sell me some isopods,
Dan


----------



## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I've started using a straight flourite substrate in some of my tanks. You do need a false bottom if going this route.

As has been mentioned, flourite doesn't provide the same benefits as the things you've read in the ultimate clay thread. One of the main problems is that flourite is fired, so it can't rub off on your microfauna. Even if it were fired I don't know that it would have the right components to be as useful as some of the homemade clays out there. But yes, you can use flourite as a substrate (I wouldn't use it in lieu of coco fiber while siliconing your great stuff (assuming you're using this method), that would look goofy, another great thing about homemade clays is that you can use the clay as your background). If you do decide to go with flourite make sure to rinse it out thoroughly before putting it in your tank.

There are, of course, down sides to using unfired clays, but hopefully this answers your question....


----------



## dan d (Aug 9, 2008)

Jake, Thanks for the Confirmation on using fluorite !
Dan


----------

