# Fiberglass & Resin backgrounds?



## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Maybe it's just my laptop but I tried to search on this and really didn't find anything. Anyone have any builds on using fiberglass/resin as a background. I'm assuming it's ok, I just haven't seen any builds on it. I know the Baltimore Aquarium has some displays that have big fiberglass tree stumps in them.

I was thinking along the lines of possibly scuplting with the fiberglass with a final coat of resin covered in ABG mix so it sticks. Maybe the same as this ACE acrylic stuff?


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## andyrawrs (Aug 16, 2008)

I'm not quite sure what the "resin" you are describing is, but I am fairly certain it is a plastic epoxy. Do a search on "epoxy" on here and you'll find a bunch of threads on epoxy backgrounds. Is this what you are looking for? For the most part, fiberglass is unnecessary (or difficult to work with) and so the community generally skips it. Other ways are used to sculpt, and then covered in epoxy resin. 

Andy


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## the_deeb (Apr 21, 2008)

To clarify, are you suggesting forming a mold out of styrofoam and then wetting out fiberglass cloth/mat over that to form a background? I've seen this done with aquarium backgrounds. Or are you planning to free form your wet out fiberglass into some sort of structure?

Fiberglass resin is usually a polyester resin and is a lot cheaper than epoxy resin. I've never personally worked with it but my understanding is that it's a lot more smelly to deal with than epoxy. It also doesn't provide a complete moisture barrier, though that probably isn't important in the context you're talking about using it in.

One concern with sculting backgrounds with fiberglass cloth/mat is that small fibers of glass can become exposed as your background wears over time and can potentially harm the inhabitants.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

the_deeb said:


> To clarify, are you suggesting forming a mold out of styrofoam and then wetting out fiberglass cloth/mat over that to form a background? I've seen this done with aquarium backgrounds. Or are you planning to free form your wet out fiberglass into some sort of structure?


Exactly, but a little of both. I wanted to form a cypress root type tree out of the fiberglass and foam. After that dries and I add wires for vines and heated pvc, etc. then brush on a coat of resin and when that gets tacky press in the soil/peat mix and maybe some moss/lichen.

What I'm gonna do is put these 2 40g breeders side by side as verts on the same stand like twins. I want one tank to have a centerpiece butress root with alot horizontal branches for mounting broms and tillys. The other tank I'd like to do a kind of a rocky outcropping background with broms and other creeping plants mounted between the 'rocks'. 

I just wanted to try something other that Greatstuff and I didn't want it to be as heavy as concrete or grout.



> It also doesn't provide a complete moisture barrier, though that probably isn't important in the context you're talking about using it in.


But fiberglass resin is waterproof. I run nitro r/c boats and some kits we build get framed out of balsa and birch strips and covered in fiberglass. Water never penetrates the wood even if the boat flips.

I guess I'm just wondering why people don't use it more. I guess the expanding foam is less messy and easier. I wonder if I could use the Greatstuff and cover it with the resin?


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## Arizona Tropicals (Feb 15, 2010)

JaredJ said:


> I wonder if I could use the Greatstuff and cover it with the resin?


If your plan were to use resin and press in a substrate and/or moss, why wouldn't you just use silicone? As others stated the fiberglass becomes risky if the background were to ever exposed any of it and resin would be rather unnecessary if you're not using fiberglass. Now if you were looking to make a mold for say a rock type of background and wanted to lay up glass to replicate this background for multiple tanks I could see the benefit of trying something like this, that is, with a gel coat layer to add an extra layer of protection from the glass coming through.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Working with large amounts of fiberglass resin can be dangerous can it not? You need gloves, goggles a mask and no exposed skin ideally if I'm not mistaken. Small amounts for a model or something may not be much of an issue but I read up on this stuff and supposedly it can do some real damage if not handled properly. Just FYI for anyone who might try using large amounts for a viv and not be aware.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

I know the shredded stuff is pretty bad but the sheets of cloth are pretty harmless and foolproof.

I was thinking durability with the epoxy. I used silicone before with greatstuff and I had alot of erosion with constant spraying where after a few months I started seeing the foam start to become exposed.


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## hoyta (Jan 18, 2006)

Its not the resin or cloth you need to worry about, its the catalyst needed to "kick off" the resin. As long as its fully dry, you should be fine. Remember, this stuff stinks to HIGH heaven! 
I worked in a boat factory for 3 years, and still remember missing my nose hairs! If it works, I guarantee it will become popular on here. I would still let it dry, and then use silicone to get the stuff to stick to the formation.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hoyta said:


> Its not the resin or cloth you need to worry about, its the catalyst needed to "kick off" the resin. As long as its fully dry, you should be fine. Remember, this stuff stinks to HIGH heaven!
> I worked in a boat factory for 3 years, and still remember missing my nose hairs! If it works, I guarantee it will become popular on here. I would still let it dry, and then use silicone to get the stuff to stick to the formation.


Ok I just re read the write up I saw, and it appears it was referring to fiberglass in general when talking about the safety issues, so maybe this doesn't apply to resin? Are there glass fibers in it that can irritate the skin?


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> Are there glass fibers in it that can irritate the skin?


In the resin? No. It's just a thin 2-part mixture that's brushed over whatever you're covering before laying the fiberglass sheet on it. Then you brush over the fiberglass with more resin and it sticks and hardens. I had a link to a guy that built a nice viv with chicken wire background and covered it in fiberglass but now I can't find it. It turned out awesome.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

HA! I found it :

Custom Ecos


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## Arizona Tropicals (Feb 15, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> Working with large amounts of fiberglass resin can be dangerous can it not? You need gloves, goggles a mask and no exposed skin ideally if I'm not mistaken. Small amounts for a model or something may not be much of an issue but I read up on this stuff and supposedly it can do some real damage if not handled properly. Just FYI for anyone who might try using large amounts for a viv and not be aware.


The fiberglass itself is the most annoying. Mat glass gets everywhere, weaves in to your cloths, in your skin, etc. When I worked in fiberglass you could see it in the seats of my car, the carpet, my cloths. I had to buy a new washing machine when I quit because it was in the machine and would transfer to my non work cloths. Woven is better but if your cutting it, it gets everywhere as well. The resin isn't so bad if handled properly, it has a very strong smell but that's about it unless you over mix it. To much catalyst and the resin will catch fire. That's how we used to get rid of excess resin and have a little fun doing it. We'd toss in a bunch of catalyst and watch it go up in flames.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

So I know Ed or someone brought up an issue concerning fiberglass being used in zoo exhibits which was as the exhibit endures wear the fiberglass can become exposed and endanger the animals and the custodians....So what measures can we take with the resin to prevent such things, or is the resin enough protection in itself?


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

I would think the resin would be protection enough, at least a couple coats anyway. Then with the final coat getting the soil mix.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

I have extensive experience working with polyester (aka "fiberglass") resins for this application.

I see what you are talking about and yes it will work if applied properly. You don't even really need to use the glass matting. You would just coat the foam with the resin.

HOWEVER:

What you are talking about using is polyester resin. It is inexpensive, toxic, flammable, and the catalyst is methyl-ethyl-ketone (VERY VERY toxic). I have set fire to my grass by making too large of a batch (1/2 gallon) in my garage at 95 degrees F. Honestly, don't use it. Its not worth it. If you use too much catalyst it cures too fast, can catch fire and/or has extra methyl-ethyl-ketone that can leach out. If you use too little or its not warm enough it will never cure and ruin your design.

You MUST wear full protection. Goggles, full air mask rated for solvents, labcoat/disposable clothes, and have water available for immediate flushing of the skin.

Even when applied properly in the correct ratios it will still outgass like hell for at least a week. Even in the South Texas summer heat it will takes a week to fully outgass.

Styrene foams (like styrofoam or extruded polystyrene/blue down insulation foam) will be eaten away like Alien acid when polyester resins are applied to them. So if you must use great-stuff ONLY.

I use to use this material by brushing it over urethane foam and dusting on my material/dirt. Then adding another layer of polyester resin, followed by another layer of material. This trapped a layer of dirt/peat/whatever in between the polyester and made it erosion proof. Another method I used, once, was to mix in the dirt after the resin has been mixed with the catalyst, and then pasted it on. But it got so hot so quick that it just about burned me through the gloves.

Dude, it CAN be done, but polyester resin is best left for people who make boats.


NOW instead of using polyester resin (aka Fiberglass resin at homedepot/lowes) use a true epoxy. The kind I use and will be selling soon is from a company out of Corpus Christi called Dewey Supply. You have to Google them and call them up as they don't have a website. Ask for Epobond brand. And its not cheap. But its a much easier 1:1 ratio, it won't catch fire, its nowhere close to as toxic, smells MUCH less, and works better. It also works with caustic materials.
Something you can do is add DRY grout mix after you have mixed together the two epoxy parts. This will allow you to make a soupy/paste-like material that looks like rock but has the properties and hardness of epoxy. This won't work with polyester resin as it can not handle the caustic materials in the grout mix.

Your project sounds like it will be a great one, but you will likely either outright fail or have a much much harder time if you go cheep and use the polyester resin. Epoxy is THE only way to go in this hobby unless you really really know what your doing.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

> NOW instead of using polyester resin (aka Fiberglass resin at homedepot/lowes) use a true epoxy. The kind I use and will be selling soon is from a company out of Corpus Christi called Dewey Supply. You have to Google them and call them up as they don't have a website. Ask for Epobond brand. And its not cheap. But its a much easier 1:1 ratio, it won't catch fire, its nowhere close to as toxic, smells MUCH less, and works better. It also works with caustic materials.
> Something you can do is add DRY grout mix after you have mixed together the two epoxy parts. This will allow you to make a soupy/paste-like material that looks like rock but has the properties and hardness of epoxy. This won't work with polyester resin as it can not handle the caustic materials in the grout mix.
> 
> Your project sounds like it will be a great one, but you will likely either outright fail or have a much much harder time if you go cheep and use the polyester resin. Epoxy is THE only way to go in this hobby unless you really really know what your doing.


This is exactly what I wanted to do. I have lots of experience with fiberglass and it's resins, at least from a hobby standpoint, and you're exactly right. I'm not really a fan of polyester resins but I was debating whether it would be easier or not. As far as foam, I was thinking more floral foam as the resin wouldn't eat that but I don't know, I'm still debating. I like your idea of using the epoxy with the grout because I do want some rocky looking areas.

Thanks for the input and keep it coming. It's definitely going to be a slow project as I really don't want to rush it. I have the tanks on the stand with the hood, I should get some pics up later after hurrricane Earl moves out.


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