# Nepenthes safe for frogs?



## Guest (Apr 1, 2006)

Has anyone ever actually witnessed a frog drowning in one of these. I've heard that it can happen, but has anyone ever witnessed it. I could swear I remember (VERY long time ago) seeing on TV that they use them for tad deposit sites. 
I've seen some of them in some great looking vivs, and they really stand out.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

hmmmmmm looks like im the only no vote so far. my reasoning, i know a commercial grower in Florida who finds dead tree frogs in nepenthes pitchers on a semi regular basis.

i have no problem believing that some ppl have had great luck with them but i firmly believe they are a potential hazard. i grow Nepenthes and i keep darts and mantellas but i dont mix those plants with the frogs. besides you need an awful large tank for any but a couple species. 

i just cant see risking a frog to something that doesnt need to be in the tank. Nepenthes are not even found along side darts in nature anyways. course i have been known to mix Mantellas and Broms so take that last sentiment for whatever its worth


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2006)

rattler_mt said:


> i know a commercial grower in Florida who finds dead tree frogs in nepenthes pitchers on a semi regular basis.


Thanks for the reply, that's all I needed to hear. I have seen a few of them in some viv's, but I thought I had read that it was risky. Just wanted to see if it was a myth or fact.



rattler_mt said:


> Nepenthes are not even found along side darts in nature anyways


I guess it wasn't the darts depositing the tads in them then,  I could swear I seen a documentary on tv that showed tads in some though, but I'm referring to a "Loooong" time ago, so maybe not???


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

i know some ppl have had darts raise young in nepenthes pitchers. as far as in the wild, i wouldnt discount it, probably some tree frog of some sort. Nepenthes are found in Madigascar, India and most of Southeast Asia, and Austraillia. might be forgetting a place or two but definatly not in South America. the only "pitcher plant" of a carnivorous nature in SA is the Heliamphora which is found on the table top mountains in Venizuala(sp?) and maybe a few surrounding countries. not sure if darts are also pressent there or not though their are frogs. a lil to cold for darts i think though.


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

There are a few that have pitchers that might be small enough to be safe for larger darts, e.g. N. aristolochioides (maybe) or N. argentii. Otherwise I don't think I'd risk it. They don't share habitats so darts would have no impulse to avoid them. Probably the opposite ("Oh! A hidey hole!").


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

There is a memeber here, andynycfreeride who regularly finds (our found, not sure if the tank is still up) D. imitator tads in his pitcher plants that morphed out.

Locally, we have Hyla cinera that breed in some of the grower's Neps at nurseries in the area.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

The documentary is the private life of plants by david attenborough. There were tads in the pitchers, just not dart fogs(se asia after all) 
Black jungle claims that they have auratus that are raised in the pitchers. What I find is that nepenthes don't like the stagnant air of a viv all that much. For the first 3 years, they are just basal rosettes, but after that they become vines and will quickly outgrow most vivs. I think most drowning problems could occur with large pitchers where the frogs exhausted themselves attempting to climb out. With smaller pitchers it probably isnt a problem. Ihave several nepenthes that are only 2 years old from vine cuttings that are already 4 feet long and throwing 6inck pitchers(alata x ventricosa and rafflesiana and sanguinea) These seem far too large for alll but the largest vivs, and even then, I would think that there would be the risk of exhaustion should a dart fall into one of these larger pitchers.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

heh, who keeps searching old polls to vote in. This is from 2006


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## RogerT (Sep 5, 2008)

Update on topic: 

Some nepenthes have been found with small monkeys in the pitchers, also mice, rats and other animals were found inside. There are however smaller nepenthes variants which pitchers are too small for some frogs, like Nepenthes gracilis which i have but still have to place in a vivarium. 

I also have heard about a crab species which lives in symbiose with nepenthes species.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

that would be one cool crab


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## RogerT (Sep 5, 2008)

bussardnr said:


> that would be one cool crab


Yep, im still looking into that species but a friend of mine still didnt bring this book with him where the symbiose is described. 

Im very interested in this because i keep (next to hundreds of plants like: antplants, billbergia, neoregelia, anthurium, carni.. etc etc etc, betta's and poison dart frogs) 3 tanks with in each Geosesarma 'vampire', Geosesarma blue, Geosesarma Krathing. And such a crab would really be something i can perfectly combine with my love for Nepenthes.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I believe this crab is also featured in david attenborough's private life of plants. check it out


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## BlightedChemist (Jul 21, 2008)

Any word on if Nepenthes would work well in an RTF viv? I don't think the drowning problem would be as bad for an arboreal frog than it would be for a terrestrial PDF. If I could find some support on this I'd love to incorporate a vine cutting once I plant my viv.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Only one way to findout. You would need toget a lowland species that will be happy with the temprange in your viv. The highlands will need a drop in temps at night your frogs probably will not appreciate. I would suggest ventricosa x alata as the easiest nepenthes to work with


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

N. gymnaphora, works great (so i heard and seen). It has small pitchers, and is a small vining plants. Produces very nice and colorful pitchers


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

According to Rich at Black Jungle all carnivorous plants are safe but only nepenthes are suitable for dart vivs because of the humidity issue.This was a few months ago though so I could have missed a detail.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Search youtube for flytrap eating frog and you will see that not all are safe. Especially with thumbnails I think this would be of great concern. Also, do you know anything about nepenthes? My worry would be from exhaustion trying to get out of one, since the pitchers insides are resplendent with downwardpointing hairs, and waxy surfaces designed specifically to keep prey from escaping. Also, from a cultural perspective, some nepenthes get HUGE!!! sprawling over 30 feet with leaves approaching 3 feet long. I've got one that puts on at least 4 to 5 feet of new vine every year.I don't think that pitchers would be a big issue, but with some of them it definiterly could be. Also you'd find that a lot of the fruitflies in the viv would end up feeding the nepenthes, as that's where all the escapees in my house go. and, cultural requirements for them varies greatly from highland to lowland, with lowland pitchers almost certain to perish in a viv where they can't get the cool nights they have to have to thrive and throw pitchers. some like temps down into the 50'sat night which I don't think anyone here is doing to their frogs. The spectacular species everyone wants are usually highland type I would reccomend the smaller growing types with shorter stubbier traps over species with elongated traps and constricted waists, or any with toothed peristomes


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## raimeiken (Dec 24, 2006)

I think you meant Highland Nepenthes are the ones that require cool nights, not lowlands


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

yep you're right


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