# My experiences with LED lighting for plants



## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

I have seen many threads on led projects for lighting vivariums for all the plants we love to keep. There is some great info out there, and I have found it can be hard to sift through it all considering how many options seem to be viable. I have to stress "seem to be viable".

For the sake of the thread I consider long term 6 months or more to see a real growth pattern emerge under the same lighting. I am writing this to help share my experiences as these are just my opinions and observations I gained from the setups I have tried since 2010 to current.

These are setups I have tried over the years that actually grew plants comparable to t-5 or PCs for me;

Kessil LED. The amazon sun works great but is far too expensive (imo) for what it is currently;
One high power smd on a heat sink with a potentiometer and a nice glass culminator. When these came out the High Power SMD type chips were still insanely expensive making the Kessil a great deal, not so much anymore. That said I have found them to be great lights in function and excellent in the area of ascetics. The Kessil A160WE is a darn good looking and well built light....just underwhelming (for me) at 32watts for $250. Here your looking at about $200-$250 per vivarium.

Build My LED.
Awesome lights that can grow anything from plants to corals depending on how you configure your order....but relatively expensive for end result considering that the ballasts are from China (unless they have changed them again recently)...despite this disappointment they are still American made as far as the fixtures themselves and have a very attractive profile on the fixture itself and offer a good range of controlling options now. Here you are looking at about $140-$200+ per vivarium depending on size.

Standard 1-3 watt leds in the 4500-6500k range with no optics mounted to an aluminum sink with a basic driver. These have worked excellent for shallow applications 10" or less. This price can wildly fluctuate but is generally less than $50 per vivarium for small applications.

Standard 1-3 watt leds in the 4500-6500k range with optics, approx 65° beam. These seem to work great to a depth of about 15" or so depending on the setup. I have seen a realistic use for vivariums with this setup via DIY kits and piecing together my own fixtures for well under $75 per vivarium with quality components. 

High power 10-50 watt LED chips form 5500-10k range with no optics and a reflector/heatsink/driver with fan. I have found that these are the most economical solution by far but do require basic electrical skills to assemble and operate safely. Ascetics are usually lacking in these but they get the job done at $15-$60 per vivarium depending on how you set it up.

High power flood lights in the 10-100watt range. These have proven to be the best solution for me in the market today for price point by a very large margin. 
A flood light with a 40mm culminator added is unmatched in power and price that I have seen so far with basic functionality and long term upkeep in mind. In "long term upkeep" I am thinking of things like drivers going bad, accidents with the fixture or drivers, general wear and tear of being moved occasionally. These come in at about $40 for a 30 watt fixture, an optical glass culminator with brackets, and an extension cord. Fixtures witha 50 watt LED are surprisingly only $5-10 more on average.

A full setup for 10 vivariums with the 30 watt floods can be done for about $400 without drastic hunting or sales. For those who are savvy you can add a programmable dimmer and signal repeater for another $50-$85 that can control the whole setup nicely competing with single fixtures in the $300-$500 range as far as functionality but for a whole rack as opposed to a single tank or two. 

Everything else I have tried over the years that was less than 1watt/led failed to meet my growth expectations....though this could be wildly different for others. 

Another reason I favor the modified flood setup currently is that if you have the knowledge of the inner workings of the setup repair and maintenance costs are very very small if problems arise in comparison to the more expensive retail fixtures after the warranty ends. In the end it really boils down functionality and aesthetics in relation to the cost of the light source for me. 

I am sure there are many others who have personal compendium of sorts on personal LED projects and how they worked out down the road, lets hear em!


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## jimmy rustles (Mar 10, 2013)

Did you use anything like a spectrometer or quantum-Meter to measure PAR-Output in your testings by Chance ? It would be very interesting to see The par output of The Different fixtures compared to each other and compared to t5 Technology and HID at The beginning and After some time. I suspect some fixtures lose output Quite fast which might make t5 The cheaper Option on The Long run if The par output of t5 ist that far off.
Just Fond a German Website with reefing LEDs on that Topic. ( in Case someone is interested in those german measurements: http://hennings-miniriff.jimdo.com/led-beleuchtung/par-messungen/)


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

jimmy rustles said:


> Did you use anything like a spectrometer or quantum-Meter to measure PAR-Output in your testings by Chance ? It would be very interesting to see The par output of The Different fixtures compared to each other and compared to t5 Technology and HID at The beginning and After some time. I suspect some fixtures lose output Quite fast which might make t5 The cheaper Option on The Long run if The par output of t5 ist that far off.
> Just Fond a German Website with reefing LEDs on that Topic. ( in Case someone is interested in those german measurements: PAR Messungen - hennings-miniriffs Jimdo-Page!)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I never measured PAR with a meter in these setups unfortunately. For degradation I saw none that affected growth in my planted vivarium or reef setups with my oldest DIY going on three years now made from cheap poorly binned xpg leds. I believe that T-5 and HID have thier place in many applications. My personal favorite for plant growth is Phillips CMH, but the heat and cost of operation are unreasonable for me.

Replacing 2 power compacts and a 4 T-5s ran me about $120 a year for 4 tanks. My current LED would have to fail or degrade unrealistically fast to match that upkeep cost annually. 
I would wager the 30 watt floods to keep up nicely compare to the 2x 24watt t-5s I was using as the growth was near equal. When I get my new lights for my reef Ill be renting a par meter to avoid burning corals. AI needs to step on it with the new Prime release


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

For kicks here are some shots of a couple of my first attempts at DIY LED waaaay before anything was available commercially under $2k. They lit the tanks and kept thing from dying too quickly.... Also a pic of a couple of BML fixtures I used for growing macro algae that also grew tropical plants very well (did have to rewire the connections to the ballasts after about 8mos).


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

When you are talking about the High Power flood lights, do you mean something like this? http://www.amazon.com/Spotlight-Flood-Light-Power-Outdoor/dp/B007CEVJKW
If so, do these come with a plug? If not can you just attach a plug or do you have to power it a different way?


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

phender said:


> When you are talking about the High Power flood lights, do you mean something like this? http://www.amazon.com/Spotlight-Flood-Light-Power-Outdoor/dp/B007CEVJKW
> If so, do these come with a plug? If not can you just attach a plug or do you have to power it a different way?


Yes those are the style I see work well. They come with a bare cords for live nuetral and ground that you can tie into any standard outlet cord. The driver is built into the housing assembly with these types.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Phil, you should look at the reviews for the particular one you linked to.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

I will say ant led with 2 watts and up "must have a good heat sink and attached fan" or it will fail in a hurry. My 3 watt quad beamswork fixtures will grow anything and the color is good and colors up my broms and they kick pups out like crazy. By the time I source everything and build it I figuess I wouldn't be saving much and these look nicer and have lasted past the cost of replacing the bulbs twice so I'm already even regardless all savings from here out, not to mention the power savings.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

epiphytes etc. said:


> Phil, you should look at the reviews for the particular one you linked to.


Hence me stating "style" of light rather than "yes that one"

The reviews are dismal of many of the fixtures. It's all about research, so soo many forums on led lighting out there to help avoid a bad purchase. Also if you have any basic wiring skills the options become infinitely less intimidating.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

planted-tnk-guy said:


> I will say ant led with 2 watts and up "must have a good heat sink and attached fan" or it will fail in a hurry. My 3 watt quad beamswork fixtures will grow anything and the color is good and colors up my broms and they kick pups out like crazy. By the time I source everything and build it I figuess I wouldn't be saving much and these look nicer and have lasted past the cost of replacing the bulbs twice so I'm already even regardless all savings from here out, not to mention the power savings.


This is a gross exaggeration, but I understand your point. Please explain your setup so I understand it.
A proper heat sink can dissipate heat from 3 watt LEDs without issue, even here (104-112 peak every year) run over a reef inside of a hood on a 12 hr cycle mid summer. 
Your beams works would be too expensive to source because they use smaller led. The companies using tiny 1-3 watt application invested in research before the current high power chipset became available and produced at its current price. Beams works look great for certain applications, they seem to build a good product.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

I agree the heat sink will dissipate lots of heat but th e cooler you keep an led the longer life it has so I prefer small computer fans to help move the heat out. I also keep my leds 1 inch above my tanks so I want the heat gone as when you have 54 3 watt leds going it's hot. I like the 10-50 watt leds I think they will be great but they have to have a fan attached quality high power leds have built in fans right on the heat sink. I am not saying it won't work but I don't want my light to last one or two years I want it to last 5 for it to be worth the investment and time. Or I might as well stay with t5s and I don't think it's an exaggeration that I have paid for the lights from not buying light bulbs. I had 4 bulbs that I replaced 2 times a year at 10.00 per bulb I have had it for 1.5 years that's 120.00 I didn't spend on bulbs. Granted I didn't buy the cheapest bulbs as I liked to mix my colord red, purple, and various kalvin ratings to get a good rendition. I now don't have to mess with all that and broken bulbs coming and the hassle either. I know my power savings isn't that big but less heat is less cooling so I know I save on the electicity. I know the leds will get better as we here in Oregon, Washington, Colorado and soon enough California and Nevada will be buying the high power ones for growing and the companiesof all the leds are doing R and D actively. Par ratings are hard to determine correctly at home on leds with the many narrow spectrums coming out of one fixture so I take those numbers with a grain of salt and leave my plants to judge that not a number so I dont even look at that anymore. It's a good judge but not cut and dry either. I would post picks of my setups but it's not loading tonight so I will try and figure it out tomorrow and post some pics.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

But regardless of my opinions and experiences as they are just that (mine). I hope you find a good HO led and I am following and hope you find a good one that doesn't burn out fast with or without the fan with a good color rendition. As I would love to use them over my palms in my house that would be great stuff. The thing that is hard for me is I can get a Kessel for 175.00 and I know it works great and will not fail so even if I spend 50-80 and it dies I'm out almost half the price of a guaranteed thing. In reality I'm just paying for their R and D but that is why it is hard for me to swallow DYI. But if you enjoy it it's no different than me tossing out cash for anything else really =).


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

I can see some of your points for sure. As far as long term economy goes I arrived at the beginning of my juncture about two years ago. The lights I listed are not ones I've just read about. I have built and or owned all of those types (many DIY using the clusters of 3-5 watt cree type). I had 4 Kessils on preorder and was using them the week they hit the Bay area. I think you misunderstood my post, those are the led I have found to work well and forf the most part last  
My oldest flood (30 watts) is going on it's third season now overwintering then vegging for over two years straight on just a large heat sink. I still love me a nice looking high end fixture and can certainly appreciate many of them, don't get me wrong. I already have two AI Primes pre ordered for my system upgrade (waiting on your AI).

At $40 a fixture I personally can buy two, and then the parts to rebuild both before I hit a relative equivalent in terms of pricing and functionality that I want in a light. The final point for me on my decision to stick with them for certain applications is the simplicity of the setup. You have a single driver and a single chip that can fail...that's it. Its like popping the hood on a 75 Chevy in contrast to say a new Cadillac (okay that was cheesy). When I have a rack going I just want a nice simple setup, visually and internally. Hopefully some others have experimented a bit here with degrees of success. Anyone else here tried the larger wattage LED? Im stockpiling a bit as the prices are seeming "too good to be true" lol.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

I was so tired last night I really had no business writing on threads lol. I read one that I wrote on another post and all I can think is erase, erase, erase lol.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

planted-tnk-guy said:


> I was so tired last night I really had no business writing on threads lol. I read one that I wrote on another post and all I can think is erase, erase, erase lol.


 all good man! Always have business speaking ones mind!


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Finally worked uploading.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

planted-tnk-guy said:


> Finally worked uploading.


Those look great!


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## bstohrer (Jan 16, 2015)

They do look nice!

I have learned a lot the last few days! Thanks all!

As mentioned on another thread, I only have been using LEDs on reef tanks. I am in the process of starting up a dart tank and I am starting to realize I may not need all the fire power a reef LED puts out. After all,the coral I cultivate are full sun species while a dart tank habitat is far from full sun.

I have built about 5 sets of rigs all using the 3-5 watt LEDs. They all worked great for growing corals. 100+ LED fixtures are real pain to build with all the drilling soldering and tapping. Literally, months of evenings and weekends. However as Nick (the OP) stated, since you built them, you know exactly how to fix em. You also have the flexibility to upgrade, add dimming, optics and all sorts of features.

I am currently using LED arrays consisting of 25 X 3-5W LEDS. These are easy to build and wire. Maybe only an hour or two each. I attached a couple of photos. I did some PAR readings on a 135 gal. reef (72" X 18" X 24" high) with 4 of the pictured fixtures 2 inches off the water. The PAR meter only goes up to 3,000. It only drops below 3,000 when I get to 4-5" below the fixture. At 13" its 700-800 and at 23" its at 300-400. All readings directly under a fixture.

Obviously way too much light for a planted tank. I had a great planted freshwater 55 gal lit by only 2 T=12s for many years. I'm intrigued by some of the LEDs I've seen in this thread. Alot of bang for the buck. It seems like a lot of you are getting some decent growth and color. 

However, since I have a ton of leftover LEDs, drivers and heatsinks, I'm going to put them to good use on the 65 gal dart tank. It looks like I'll need a few warm whites, but costs will be negligible at a few bucks each. Frother posts it looks like I can get away with about 24 of the 3-5w LEDs over a 65gal (36" X 18" X 24" high). I can always add more if I need them. I'll write up and post along with photos and PAR readings. 

Again, thanks All, Bob


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

I purchased this one yesterday.









For $14, I can use it somewhere else should I not like. It's going over my 12x12x18 exo so the small size should be okay.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

I built my own LED fixture, and if the grocery bag full of _Pilea_ I removed the other day is any indication, it works quite well.

I'm also getting a lot of bromeliad pupping and blooming. I think every bromeliad I have under it has pupped at least once, most 3+ times in the last year.


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## Y0urbestfriend (Jan 31, 2014)

Any pictures or ideas on how to mount those 30w floodlights?


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

easternversant said:


> I built my own LED fixture, and if the grocery bag full of _Pilea_ I removed the other day is any indication, it works quite well.
> 
> I'm also getting a lot of bromeliad pupping and blooming. I think every bromeliad I have under it has pupped at least once, most 3+ times in the last year.


Have you posted a build thread or description of your setup anywhere?


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

ChrisAZ said:


> Have you posted a build thread or description of your setup anywhere?


Build thread! I haven't updated this in a long time, but the lights are doing really well and don't make the tanks hot. This is important since my whole apartment has one window mounted AC unit.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

JPccusa said:


> I purchased this one yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like how compact that is, my 30watt is somewhat of a beast! 





ab1000434 said:


> Any pictures or ideas on how to mount those 30w floodlights?


I just have mine sitting on standoffs that raise them about 2 3/8" above the glass directly on the tank. If they had to be in a rack I would re-wire the driver and mount them on a piece of board for cable/access management. That would shave up to 3" off of the the vertical profile of the fixture depending on which one you have. Ill get a pic up tomorrow, but mine literally just sit on some SS bent plate to raise em up a bit, and the lower wattage ones (10-20) just sit directly on the glass. The slim ones could be mounted to the bottom of the next shelf with heavy duty zip ties or wingnuts.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Received the lamp today. I'm pretty happy with its power, but the color could be a little warmer (I knew this going in. Lamp is cool white (6000K)).
It's much heavier than I thought. It's a SOLID heat sink.
Small size is great for the small tanks. Wider tanks require 2 or more.
Also, this lamp has no plugs, so take that into consideration as well (+$8 for a 12V 3A AC to DC adapter).
Now, pictures.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Where did you pick up that LED flood?


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

How many lumens is too much in a LED light?


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Too many?


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

For example, I just ordered a led light to grow some mosses in some large bins I have. 


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Ryan said:


> Where did you pick up that LED flood?


Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/TMH-Square-Shape-Degree-Light/dp/B00E0L6H5M



Mohlerbear said:


> How many lumens is too much in a LED light?


I'm not sure I understand your question. The light I got puts out "over 2150 lumens."


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

It's a LED thread. I was curious as to what would be too many. For example I ordered a light 30" light/fixture with 5500. I just thought someone would have some kind of input. Sorry for butting into the thread. 


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

I think "too many" has 2 meanings - Negatively affecting the health of the tank OR being unpleasing to your eyes. 

Being aesthetically unpleasing is a matter of opinion. 

As for having a negative affect on the tank, I doubt these flood lights are powerful enough to cause light burn or severe bleaching, and definitely not hot enough (if installed properly) to cause heat burn. Of course, light burn can happen to shade-loving plants, so plan accordingly.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

JPccusa said:


> Received the lamp today. I'm pretty happy with its power, but the color could be a little warmer (I knew this going in. Lamp is cool white (6000K)).
> It's much heavier than I thought. It's a SOLID heat sink.
> Small size is great for the small tanks. Wider tanks require 2 or more.
> Also, this lamp has no plugs, so take that into consideration as well (+$8 for a 12V 3A AC to DC adapter).
> Now, pictures.


Going to check these out, love my 30 watts but they are soooo big compared to the 20 or the 10.



ab1000434 said:


> Any pictures or ideas on how to mount those 30w floodlights?


Terrible pic but I just have the big ones on overkill standoffs (1/4" Diamond Stainless scraps from work).


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## terraruums.eu (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm planning on building something with cob led strips, 2200lm each. They are 8cm long and really thin. 20w each, 6500k. I like them for their low profile compared to a flood light. http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/504625921/10w_Epistar_chip_800lm_COB_LED_Strips.jpg
This is how they look. Problem is they beed heatsink. I will post if i get some progress.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

terraruums.eu said:


> I'm planning on building something with cob led strips, 2200lm each. They are 8cm long and really thin. 20w each, 6500k. I like them for their low profile compared to a flood light. http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/504625921/10w_Epistar_chip_800lm_COB_LED_Strips.jpg
> This is how they look. Problem is they beed heatsink. I will post if i get some progress.


I have been wanting to try that type out. The automotive department on Amazon is flooded with them, very well priced. Rapid LED has some decent prices on larger heatsinks that are not "too" bulky.


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