# UPS!!! Frozen frogs!!



## smorrow (Nov 3, 2006)

UPS delivered my frogs to the wrong address and left them outside. No one lives at the house they delivered to so obviously they didn't get the required signature. They have been outside in freezing rain for over 4 hrs. The shipping moss is ice cold, the frogs are stiff! I am trying to slowly heat them back up. Think there is any chance of survival?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

yes. do not spray them or add water. just let them set at room temps remove them from the cups if possible and just set them on room temp moss, in the tank preferably.


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

If they are stiff, I'm not sure...I've had frogs survive after being nearly frozen...the appeared completely dead...but they were not literally frozen stiff. 

Put them on the lids of the containers inside the tank...let them warm up slowly and see if you get any movement from them. It literally took months for mine to get back to normal, but they survived and are now breeders. 

Keep us posted.

Kristen


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

What a nighmare! One of my last shipment of frogs got a little colder than the sender thought and one of them was motionless for a while. I just let it warm up slowly and now you can't tell it from the others. Just do as the others mentioned and keep us posted. I've got my fingers crossed for you.


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## smorrow (Nov 3, 2006)

They are starting to come around...atleast two of them are(still not sure with the smallest one though) I have them at 98% humidity and 74dF in their quarantine tank right now. As I was writing this one of them spun around and appears to be checking out the surroundings..hopefully they will come through this after all.


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## thumbnail (Sep 18, 2005)

*frozen frogs*

What type are they???


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Glad to hear that they are starting to move around a little. Sometimes I don't know where delivery people's minds are.


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## PoohMac (Aug 22, 2006)

I hope everything works out and they are ok.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I've said it many times before... and Ill say it again.

FEDEX, held at the local station is the safest way to ship. Hands down in my experience this has been far better than the rest.


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## droseraman (Jun 17, 2004)

i really dont like UPS


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## krowleey (Sep 21, 2006)

UPS is the worst carrier hands down, Fed ex or DHL. at least DHL REQUIRES a signature.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

funny, i haven`t had any problems w/ them.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Fed Ex and UPS have always been pretty good to me... DHL, on the other hand, has been late everytime and delivered the box to the wrong house (not even on the same street!) twice.


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

I hate both DHL and UPS. half the time they don't get the signature that is suposedly "required". I've had a few frogs shipped DHL that i sit anxiously in the house waiting for only to find them on the doorstep an hour later after i start getting worried that they are late.


I only ship FedEx or USPS (which i believe fedex still handles the overnites for) for both i request hold for pickup


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Just out of curiosity, does this fall under unsolicited, unregistered, vendor feedback? I ask because I had a bad experience as well, posted about it as far as what I should do, and before I had a chance to see if there were any replies, one of the mods deleted it. So...... I am a bit confused. I happen to agree though with the before mentioned comments on OOPS though (When I worked at Fed Ex that's what we called UPS).


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

housevibe7,

Thanks for brining this up I have made a couple of comments on the larger companies and I am trying to be a bit more open with some feedback in this specific area. In my opinion a number of the shipping companies have really gone down hill, and when we are trusting live animals in their hands it is important that the community is aware of the issues. Now that being said if at any time I am asked to remove these comments I will do so instantly.

I do want to make clear that to my knowledge FEDEX is the only carrier that will allow live animal shipment and that takes going through a process which was posted here some time ago. I do want to offer caution to anyone posting information about using a shipper that does not allow it and by doing so you could put your self at risk.

Please also take a minute to think of all of things that also could impact a shipment that are totally out of the shippers hands:
- incorrect or hard to read address information
- poor packing (ive seen more than a few cases of this posted over the years)
- People not being there when deliveries show up (common you are ordering LIVE ANIMALS)
- Lack up having the package held at the local station (the last leg of shipping is almost always the most risky and where the most mistakes happen, it is also where they are exposed to the elements the most)

As always please stick to the facts... bashing will not be tolerated and will be removed.

If anyone has any questions please PM or e-mail me.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

> I do want to make clear that to my knowledge FEDEX is the only carrier that will allow live animal shipment and that takes going through a process which was posted here some time ago. I do want to offer caution to anyone posting information about using a shipper that does not allow it and by doing so you could put your self at risk.


Kyle, I think you have said this before. However, it is not true. USPS allows frogs (it is buried in their support section of their site, but it is in writing).

Also, UPS has assured me on more than one occasion (all on the phone, I have yet to recieve it in writing) that frogs are ok to ship, but they are not responsible for loss.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Thank you for the clarification... Its good to hear more allow it.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

ups allows shipping frogs if you have an account and they let me put the flourescent LIVE TROPICAL FROGS stickers all over them too.


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

USPS policies regarding live shipping are that you have to clear it with the local center from which your overnite shipments are sent out from. last time i shipped USPS it took a while because i had to go to a specific post office, had to make a call to charlotte and had to get approval that the frogs would be able to leave that nite and reach their destination within a day.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

frogfarm said:


> ups allows shipping frogs if you have an account and they let me put the flourescent LIVE TROPICAL FROGS stickers all over them too.


The one time I tried to use UPS and put on the box anything referencing that there was a live animal in there they gave me such a hard time that they eventually told me they wouldn't do it. I told them it was their policy to (kinda hoping they would buy it) and they still said no. I eventually had to drive to another location and and cross out the live animals markings on there and tell them there were plants inside not to cause a stir as eventhough the animal marking was crossed out when they saw it they said "Uh oh, you don't have live animals in there do you??"


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## krowleey (Sep 21, 2006)

UPS delivers my packages at the office of my apt complex instead of delivering it to the door. i know its a driver problem, and after telling the office to no longer accept my packages, the driver delivers to the office and takes off noting unable to deliver. ive caught them twice doing this, and as josh knows this last time they were made to come back and deliver it to the door that night. but after waiting all day for your package until 7pm when ups was at the address at 1pm isn't right. although the corporate customer service will agree with that, the local hubs may not care, like in my case. so thats why i dislike UPS thumbsdown to UPS.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

you also have to be on a route, give it to a driver or drop them at the hub. ups store can`t accept them either.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I think alot of it has to do with you're area and the shipper's management in you're area that determines how good they are.
Also, in poor weather, you really ought to have them held at the station for pickup...this would have prevented that episode...perhaps.

Also, with good packaging, a couple hours in the elements wouldn't be enough time to get them way cold. Not saying failed delivery wasn't a factor in the frogs condition...just saying.

Also, you should be due a rebate for that kind of thing.

I had a customer that had to jump through hoops to get his package on the day it was to arrive (instead of next day) it was guaranteed by 10:30 am, and the shipper refunded the total cost of shipping without me even saying anything...


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## Resilient (May 21, 2006)

I grew up on a flower farm where we sent fresh cut flowers around the US and sometimes the rest of the world, and FedEx was by far, the best way to go. We had very few late deliveries (which we actually hoped for, because then we got free shipping). And they are pretty good in their claims department for paying for the boxes when they get delivered to the wrong address and frozen.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I can't speak for other sorting facilities, but my girlfriend just started working at the UPS sorting facility here in Columbus and has two things to relay to us: 

1) Every package is for the most part handled the same. She has seen packages that suspicially look like foam lined boxes be jostled and dropped just like all of the others. 

2) Packaging is everything. If you want your animals (or anything else) to arrive safely, they must be packaged correctly. 

I agree with others in this thread, Fedex held at the counter is the way to go.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

So did you ask her if she knows what kind of temps are typical in the sort facility?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

The sort facility is temp controled to some extent - I'll ask her for details on it when she gets home. The truck trailer's are not. So if a package we ship has any ground travel, it will be at the ambiant air temp.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

kyle1745 said:


> I've said it many times before... and Ill say it again.
> 
> FEDEX, held at the local station is the safest way to ship. Hands down in my experience this has been far better than the rest.


Agreed.

HELD AT LOCATION....everyone seems to give me a bit of a hard time when I require it for their shipment, but really, why risk the extra drive time and someone leaving a package on a doorstep?

Takes a bit of extra planning to pick them up, but much safer.

S


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## Resilient (May 21, 2006)

Yep, I just picked up some frogs held at the local fedex awhile ago. Defiantly the way to go. I know my house is near the end of the line. When I track, my box will be on the truck for delivery at 8am, but will not arrive till around 3pm.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I really want to try the data logger in the dead of winter from station to station... I need to pick up a logger...


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

kyle1745 said:


> I really want to try the data logger in the dead of winter from station to station... I need to pick up a logger...


I'm going to do so, my early x-mass present...testing season is here...single digits!
Anyone who would like to contribute to the test, perhaps we should start a thread or email chain.
I don't think it would be break the bank expensive to ship just the logger back and forth.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Interesting paragraph...

http://fermentation.typepad.com/ferment ... s_who.html


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Intersting but i don't think a very valid test. Due to this:


> He measures the temperatures of the outside of the boxes when they arrive at his home with a laser temperature guage.


Out side is pointless, and for all we know he is last on the fedex route... 

I really like the data logger idea, and would love to see the difference between single, double boxes, and with or without heat packs.


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

This is a really great idea. I think this is one thing that alot of us are in the dark about and wonder whats going on with these boxes and the temps they get to. This will be very interesting. And as someone mentioned I would like to see how well packaged boxes do in the single digits. And of course a summer run would be needed also.


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