# The worst thing about keeping Dart Frogs......



## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

You can fill it in for yourself, but for me it is the inability to go to a store and look at a nice selection of frogs or even plants for that matter.
(I realize it is a good thing for the frogs) 
In my reef aquarium hobby(which I am starting to cut down on) I can go to probably 6-7 really nice stores within 20 minutes of my house that have high quality supplies and livestock. If I go 45 minutes, I can visit wholesalers that have warehouses of livestock and supplies.
There are plenty of reptile stores in my area, but very few carry darts and those that do normally only carry azureus and leucs.
When I was a younger it seems like all the nurseries had greenhouses with terrarium plants in 2" pots, now none of them do. 

I guess I should feel lucky that I have a tillandsia grower that is starting to feature mini neos that is 45 minutes away and a well known begonia grower who also grows a lot of unique terrarium suitable plants about an 80 minutes away. I also have a breeder nearby with a very large collection that I can visit on occasion, as well as an active area club, but I just wish I could go somewhere on the weekend to spend some time looking at frogs and vivs trying to get ideas for my next project. 

The ideal situation would be a reptile or fish store where the owner was also a dart frog enthusiast and kept his huge collection in the store. He wouldn't even have to sell them. Just let me browse through and look at them.

Sorry, had to vent. I'm done now.


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## Geckoguy (Dec 10, 2008)

FFs in my water glass My girlfriend also hates living with all the "creepy crawlies" I hear about it on a daily basis but I think shes adjusting; I even got her to feed my frogs the other day!


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

The worst thing about keeping dart frogs is the ff culturing. For me it is such a long and miserable process. I always say when I win the lottery I won't hire a maid or a driver, but someone to make all my cultures and clean out my old ones. It is probably the only thing I don't enjoy 100% about keeping pdfs.


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

I think the worst thing is that nothing seems to be to my standards anymore. When I was younger, the tiny tanks with all the fake plants and a waterfall was soooo cool. Then the zoo displays were AMAZING! Now, I see the stores and their setups and I feel bad for the frogs. I went to the zoo yesterday and not that they weren't adequate, but the enclosures just weren't about to WOW me! I think anybody with the money to buy 40 frogs to sell them in the store should be able to make a stunning vivarium. Doesn't seem to be the case. In 3 days and with about 150 bucks I can build a viv that people "WOW" at. Why don't the retail outlets or the educational institutes do this? 

BTW, Phil I completely agree with you on the plants. I am beginning to grow my own just because I know that other than Dane, nobody in So. Cal seem to have anything I would consider to be a descent selection of vivarium suitable plants. I can't wait until I can afford an air conditioned green house!


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

worring about someone takeing care of thousands of $ of animals while you are at a show or on vacation. not just my darts but other frogs and geckos as well. 

if you ask my gf she would say the noise but that is my favorite part


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Running out of tank space, space to put a new tank or money...



Deb


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

Eric Walker said:


> worring about someone takeing care of thousands of $ of animals while you are at a show or on vacation. not just my darts but other frogs and geckos as well.



My neighbors are my frog sitters and they are amazing!

When we were gone on vacation in December, the worst storm in 40 years hit. Snow (which we almost never get), trees down and the power out for days. They brought their generator over to our house to hook up to the space heater in my frog room. In the meantime, they let their refrigerator go warm and spoil.

The wife asks when we're taking off again, because she misses messing around with the frogs. She was really excited about the first froglet that came from a newly hatched tad she had moved to the cup. When I first trained her, she was squeamish about the crickets, now she handles it all like a pro.

They are worth their weight in gold!

Deb


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Not having enough room for the projects I want to do. Especially now that I live in an apt. 
The local plant and frog availability here is awesome, I just cant convince the girlfriend to let me squeeze any more vivs into our 1 room apt.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

+1 for not enough room or time in the day...

The main thing I don't like is needing to keep the A/C howling (and the associated $200 electric bill) May through October...


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Great thread - topic. 5 stars. Not sure if it's ever been covered before (neg).

Hard for me to select a single bad issue as I tend to think dart frogs are arguably one of the easiest herps to keep.

I guess, I would have to say.....escaped fruit flys. Never was a problem for me, but I can see where new people and people with "bug issues" would not like a living room vivarium that continues to produce escapees.....


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## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

when life forces you to down size a really nice sized collection , that you probally never can replace.and knowing frog groups that were alive and reproducing for 10 yrs plus, made less than 6 months once moved.but i love this hobby and im sure ill alwas keep a few jewels.i just hope things never get about the cash again.


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

phender said:


> You can fill it in for yourself, but for me it is the inability to go to a store and look at a nice selection of frogs or even plants for that matter.


I also totally agree here, with shipping prices so high right now, having to order from the east coast and pay 2-3 day shipping( which is were it seems most of the plant sellers are) almost always out weighs the price of the plants themselves....


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

Lighting. Vivarium lighting requirements are easier to meet than, say, planted aquarium requirements, but I still find it annoying having to come up with a low-heat yet attractive lighting solution for every vivarium I set up, buy yet another timer, etc.

But then I don't have a rack. I only do display vivaria around the house. I imagine if all your frogs are on a rack in the basement, lighting is by far the easiest part of the hobby.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

^^that reminds me....not having a basement


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

The worst thing about keeping dart Frogs...


Not having a Vet *willing* to look at Frogs.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Running out of food.
Vacations.
Summer heat.
My Leucs. jumping out of the viv. when I open the door to feed them.
Not seeing a frog for days.
My wifes cat sitting on top of a viv.
....and it`s all worth every bit of aggravation.

John


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## garweft (Mar 11, 2008)

I've had darts for 2 years now and must say they are very easy to care for in relation to work involved. I don't have many groups, but with all my "other" things I don't quite have the room. I've kept and bred many species of snake and gecko, and darts don't have as bad a downfall as either if the other two.

With geckos it was always a pain to get crickets shipped in through the winter. No fun being out of crickets and having a large cricket order come in dead. Try picking up 3000 crickets a week from you local petsmart...lol

Large snakes take up a lot of room and hurt when they bite. Not to mention what comes out the other end about a week after they eat.... 

Darts haven't given me too many problems. Foods not usually a problem, and clean up is minimal. The worst thing about keeping darts is the same as anything else I've ever kept.... Power outages in winter!!


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## Ulisesfrb (Dec 8, 2008)

Not having enough $$$$ and room.

Having to clean out the culture containers. I really hate it, specially scrubbing the sides with my hand. 

Ulises


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## Malaki33 (Dec 21, 2007)

Not having the money to buy more frogs.


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## D's Darts (Apr 8, 2009)

Not havin the money or space for new frogs.
Not havin many people around you that have frogs.
But I love havin them, I just want more ! and more, and more !


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Besides being tied down by the responsibility, I'd say the temperature issues. It's near impossible to safely heat a frog tank, and my freezing basement makes them hard to keep.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Brom scale in the viv.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Having not as much room as I would like...
Not having a basement..
Those spells where cultures crash.
No longer being employed, but still have so much left to do..


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

For me it's the time & money associated with quarantine procedure; Vet bills for meds & fecals, PCR tests, QT containers, separate feeding arrangements, frequent substrate changes, sterilizing used containers. It's made me consider giving up frogging once or twice, but releasing healthy frogs into a clean, established enclosure for the first time is good compensation.


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## dam630 (Dec 11, 2009)

The fact that I can no longer walk into a store without thinking "Hmmm... I wonder if I can use that (fill in the blank)for my dart frog hobby?"


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## onefstsnake (Jul 31, 2008)

I would have to say FF are the worst thing about keeping PDFs.
I have 2 tanks in my bedroom and Im always waking up with a FF or two crawling on me.

Also, water for the misting system is pretty bad too. I just need to shell out the cash for a decent RO system...


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

- The second worst are the people that lose interest in prolific breeding species and get rid of them because they cannot sell their offspring in the amounts that they would prefer. This mentality made several species/morphs dissappear from the hobby.
- But by far the worst are the people that regain their interest when the species are gone and will sell for lot's a $ again.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

The absolute worst thing about keeping dart frogs is that most people you know will not share your enthusiasm. 
They look at a viv you spent countless hours and put a lot of money into and say, "Hmm, that's neat." But there's no sense of wonderment about it. 
That irks me since in my opinion, dart frogs are not one of those 'acquired taste' things. 
They're awesome!


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## Label (Jun 15, 2009)

FF cultures
FF cultures 
and 
FF cultures


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## Wyoming frogger (Dec 18, 2009)

I love everything about the frogs and plants.

If the general public ever discovered how easy vivs are to keep, I suppose pdf's would rival aquarium keeping. Maybe one day it will be.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

I gotta go with lack of space. 

I can setup 30, 40, 50 FF Cultures at a time, doesn't bother me a bit. 

Lack of space however is borderline on unbearable.


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## Petersi (Jan 31, 2008)

I have to say the worst thing is that feeling. "There one more frog I need but then again there that one too." Always another frog and the collection get bigger and becomes more work.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

It's only been a few months since I built 40 tanks expecting it to be enough for awhile, now I'm looking for more space. 

I have a fairly full tadpole hatchery going, and no where to put them when they start morphing. Looks like another bedroom is about to fall victim to the frogs..... 


Go figure.


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## speed211 (Jan 27, 2006)

the worst thing about keeping frogs is my wife!
she hates everything about this hobby, the flies, the money and the space. i got a little payback though...my pacman frog bit the crap out of her when she tried to save a pinkie mouse. haha


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## DizzyD (Sep 19, 2006)

Temperature issues... too hot too cold
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Space. or lack thereof

Just bought a house, and "discussed" the frog room w/ the lovely wife. I was thinking office. She was thinking basement. I lost. Now I have a rack in the basement (just put it together today, top shelf almost touches the joists) and have to figure out all my temperature issues as soon as my tanks are up and running. 

But all in all it's very, very worthwhile. Quite a satisfying hobby. There's always tons of stuff to learn, and tons of stuff to experiment with. Wouldn't give it up; ever.

LMAO there speed!
The wife has barely put up w/ escapee FF's, but she's not a fan of the price of frogs. Eh, you win some, you lose some.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

My wife's been the least of my problems in my fish and frog hobbys. Temps/ humidity have been pretty easy as I have a fish shed that maintains almost ideal dart conditions. Mites in my cultures have been annoying, but tolerable. 

My biggest problem is explaining to people I meet, friends and family, just exactly what the heck I'm doing in my little shed with all these weird little frogs and copious amounts of fish tanks. I tell them I keep fish and frogs and they assume I have a fish bowl with a couple gold fish and a Fire Belly toad in a kritter keeper. I don't know how many times I've answered the questions "are they poisonous?", "why do you have so many?", "are they different colors?", "how much do they cost?", "do you lick them to get high?"... etc. etc. etc..... I'm gonna type up a FAQ and just carry a few in my pocket.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

By FAR the worst thing I've experienced in this hobby is the obvious one- losing frogs. My loss was due to a five hour heat spike a few months back, but anyone who has lost any in general knows how crappy it feels. With the work we put into keeping these guys happy, it's pretty darn disheartening.


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## Jasonwade02 (May 3, 2010)

RMB said:


> I don't know how many times I've answered the questions "are they poisonous?", "why do you have so many?", "are they different colors?", "how much do they cost?", "do you lick them to get high?"... etc. etc. etc..... I'm gonna type up a FAQ and just carry a few in my pocket.


I like this, I haven't gotten too many of the other questions but I have been asked a lot of times if I've licked them to get high, that's hilarious. I haven't come across anything yet that I haven't enjoyed. escaped fruit flies are easily disposed off (I just leave pieces of fruit lying around and collect them each day). Lack of space though is a bummer. My options are very limited as we live in an apartment and until we buy a house I am pretty much stuck with one viv.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Spiders...thats all I have to say.


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## Sabotage (Jun 1, 2010)

Temperature issues. When I first bought my frogs, I was told "don't let the tank get above 80F!" So now the first thing I always check when I get home from work (especially now that it is summer and todays forecast is 100F) is the temperature in the tank. Also the subsequent AC bills associated with keeping PDFs cool and happy.


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## angry gary (Dec 9, 2009)

the worst thing about keeping dart frogs..... is my job, it keeps me from spending all day every day in my frog room. come on retirement!!

AG


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Sabotage said:


> Temperature issues. When I first bought my frogs, I was told "don't let the tank get above 80F!" So now the first thing I always check when I get home from work (especially now that it is summer and todays forecast is 100F) is the temperature in the tank. Also the subsequent AC bills associated with keeping PDFs cool and happy.


Yeah: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lounge/55349-whats-your-summer-electric-bill.html


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## jdogfunk99 (Oct 16, 2007)

earthfrog said:


> The absolute worst thing about keeping dart frogs is that most people you know will not share your enthusiasm.
> They look at a viv you spent countless hours and put a lot of money into and say, "Hmm, that's neat." But there's no sense of wonderment about it.
> That irks me since in my opinion, dart frogs are not one of those 'acquired taste' things.
> They're awesome!


Well said, I agree completely!


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Reading the current threads on buying WC/ Illegal frogs.

John


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

phender said:


> *The worst thing about keeping Dart Frogs......*


My wife...


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## Flint8062 (Jun 12, 2010)

waiting for a Breeder to email or call you back about an order you want to place. and not having alot of breeders in FLA. to choose from. and of coarse $$$$$$$ and space.


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Having someone stare into your tank for a whole 10 seconds and say..yeaaaa thats cool, where are the frogs?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Flint8062 said:


> waiting for a Breeder to email or call you back about an order you want to place. and not having alot of breeders in FLA. to choose from. and of coarse $$$$$$$ and space.


there are a number of breeders in FL. much of whats here comes from FL at some point.


the worst part is getting really good offers (1/2 or less than average cost) to buy frogs and not having money!!!!! hooray for trades (unfortunately people with the really "cool" frogs dont generally want the less cool stuff in trades)

james


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