# Collecting isopods from outside



## reptiles12

Hey everyone, I was wondering if I could collect isopods from outside under pile of wood and put them in my dart frog tank for them to clean. Is there any danger in Doing this? If I collect then can I only collect the ones that look the same? Can ones that are too big scare or injure my frog? Thanks for the input!


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## jeffr

reptiles12 said:


> Hey everyone, I was wondering if I could collect isopods from outside under pile of wood and put them in my dart frog tank for them to clean. Is there any danger in Doing this? If I collect then can I only collect the ones that look the same? Can ones that are too big scare or injure my frog? Thanks for the input!


Since you're in Long Island you know they spray from trucks and planes to kill mosquitos preventing West Nile Virus. I wouldn't take anything from outside because of this, no matter where I found it on the Island


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## oddlot

I'd also be concerned about parasites or other harmful pathogens,especially since there are plenty of sponsors and members that sell dwarf varieties that are reasonable and clean.


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## reptiles12

That's Ironic because I got west Nile and lymes at the same time!


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## varanoid

reptiles12 said:


> That's Ironic because I got west Nile and lymes at the same time!


Hope you feel better.

You can try culturing them for several generations and then introduce them to your viv. I doubt that they will do well in a dart frog environment however.


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## reptiles12

I'll just buy them, I just don't understand the whole culturing with isopods and springs and how much I should buy for all my tanks. Ive read all of the guides I just need it in a more simple way.


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## Scott

If you do it right, you really need only buy one of any culture, ever.

Of course it's not easy to do it right either. 

s


reptiles12 said:


> I'll just buy them, I just don't understand the whole culturing with isopods and springs and how much I should buy for all my tanks. Ive read all of the guides I just need it in a more simple way.


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## reptiles12

im going to end up killing the culture haha


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## Tricolor

I have fed my terribilis isopods from my outside wood pile for many years. No problems here but thats just me.


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## Aqua tropics

I would never bring anything from outside and put it in one of my vivariums. The risk is to high of introducing a parasite of some kind.


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## chuck norris

Neherp and a few others sell kits for springtails, isopods, flies and many more different bugs.

I would say get a kit of each, it makes it tougher for you to kill them the first time around.
The kit will come with bug food as well. With that first kit you will begin to get the hang of it and can start dividing your cultures, just copy your kits. Once you get the hang of it you can culture however suits you best. Some bugs take longer then others to reproduce but after a few months you will have more bugs then you know what to do with.


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## reptiles12

Thanks guys, I'm going to buy a few cultures for each of my cages.


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## Shinosuke

You really only need to buy one starter culture of each. You can breed them from there, and add them to your cages as needed after the populations start to boom.


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## daswooten

I started with some collected isopods from my garden. They were both free and plentiful. I practiced with these prior to purchasing any tropical isopods, but I didn't have frogs yet so I wasn't concerned with producing results (other than to see if I could grow a culture). After a poor start (I believe due to a poor substrate) I was able to get a thriving culture going.

I did speak with my local exotics vet and researched as much as I could on potential pathogens that may be introduced. He agreed that the risk of potential pathogens is very small as there have been multiple successions of cultures made with fresh substrate from multiple generations if isopods. This eliminates parasites that need hosts other than the isopods to survive and any chemicals on the initially collected isopods.

The wild collected do well in the frog habitats, but they don't reproduce nearly as quickly as the tropical species. Also, adults are too large for my frogs, so only the babies are eaten.

If you can't obtain some tropical cultures from somewhere soon, I say collect the wild isopods to try growing. Just don't introduce any to the frogs for a long time (at which time you will likely have obtained some tropical cultures anyway).


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## Hatmehit

I have a culture of the non-roly type of wild woodlice and they seem to breed better than the roly poly types. I had a whole bunch of those and they seemed to do well but not breed very fast. Sadly that culture got too dry and they all died. I did move some of those into the frog terrarium at one point after I felt they were probably clean. Those ones have grown extremely large and I see them out and about helping to keep the tank clean. The frogs harass them a little but not too badly and they certainly don't bother my azureus.


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## reptiles12

Okay well I have plenty of time before my 180g terrarium is setup so I'll try from the wild if I can find some. Thanks for the input.


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## Ed

One of the reasons it can take a long time (or be difficult) to get some of the temperate zone isopods going is that some species can take up to 15 months to reach sexual maturity. This means it actually takes a long time for the culture to become stable and reproducing. People tend to mistake offspring from the sexually mature adults as being a sign of the culture being established but in reality, it is months before the second generation becomes mature and begins to get the culture stable. 

Due to this length of time, the dwarf isopods are much better at becoming established and are a little easier to culture. See for example http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/84615-wild-isopods.html#post747250 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Pumilo

Ed said:


> One of the reasons it can take a long time (or be difficult) to get some of the temperate zone isopods going is that some species can take up to 15 months to reach sexual maturity. This means it actually takes a long time for the culture to become stable and reproducing. People tend to mistake offspring from the sexually mature adults as being a sign of the culture being established but in reality, it is months before the second generation becomes mature and begins to get the culture stable.
> 
> Due to this length of time, the dwarf isopods are much better at becoming established and are a little easier to culture. See for example http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/84615-wild-isopods.html#post747250
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


That means that if you are going to culture through several generations to "clean" them of possible pathogen transfer, at 15 months per generation, that's almost 4 years. Don't confuse different sized bugs from older, sibling clutches, as being multiple generations. The next generation does not occur for 15 months, when the original babies finally have babies of their own.


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## reptiles12

Wow well I have a little time, are springtails any better? I want to get both eventually


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## Cory2

The benefits include higher nutrition from wild food items,I just wouldn't reccomend it due to the risk of parasites


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## Ed

Cory2 said:


> The benefits include higher nutrition from wild food items,I just wouldn't reccomend it due to the risk of parasites


 
This is often tossed around but there really isn't anything to support it.... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## BlueRidge

I used a termite trap that was posted on here and collected from the woods in Va Beach and never had a problem. The frogs actually went nuts for them.


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## chuck norris

JaredJ said:


> I used a termite trap that was posted on here and collected from the woods in Va Beach and never had a problem. The frogs actually went nuts for them.


Do you know the specie of termite? Can you be 100% sure termites are free of pathogens? 

I suggest immediate quarantine and fecals.


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## BlueRidge

Nope, but the frogs went nuts. Ive read many articles and books where the authors have recommended field sweepings to feed to your reptiles/amphibians. Are you saying we should only feed our animals clean cultured insects? If so the animals would miss out on nice fat and juicy bugs that have eaten natural vegetation. 

There are many posts on here about people feeding wc termites.


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## reptiles12

I live in a little segregated part on the woods where no one goes so I should be cleared for toxins on the bugs, so I think I will try something with ky terribilis with either isos or termites after I research some more.


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## Ed

reptiles12 said:


> I live in a little segregated part on the woods where no one goes so I should be cleared for toxins on the bugs, so I think I will try something with ky terribilis with either isos or termites after I research some more.


If you are going to use collected invertebrates as a food source then I would strongly suggest routine fecals and periodic swabbing for chytrid and ranavirus infections of your collection. It is possible to introduce parasites (such as coccidians) or other diseases to your frogs. 

The vast majority of the recommendations for the utilization of collected feeders are from the period of time before we were able to recognize the fact that those invertebrates are potentially significant sources of diseases and parasites. 


Some comments 

Ed


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## BlueRidge

reptiles12 said:


> I live in a little segregated part on the woods where no one goes so I should be cleared for toxins on the bugs, so I think I will try something with ky terribilis with either isos or termites after I research some more.


I think thats your main concern....pesticides. I've seen fat and happy frogs with termites it's just a shame you can't culture them, or at least easily.


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## daswooten

Pesticides may be an immediate concern, but parasites will be a long-term issue. 

I read the study regarding A. vulgare breeding (in the linked thread). In it, the authors referred to studies which observed the isopods in more favorable environments breeding within the first year as well as two broods within a single year. As such, keeping the cultures in a controlled environment (such as we do) may allow for a shorter time to first brood as well as multiple broods per year. 

I had collected my initial culture in 2010 and I have already had at least 3 generations. My initially collected isopods must have had some mature individuals as there were young isopods fairly soon after creating the culture (which I removed to start a new culture). My cultures are currently housed in the basement "bug room" where they have a light on a timer (only about 10 hours a day) and fairly consistent heat. I may try an informal experiment to see how many (and how quickly) broods I can get in a controlled setting by varying temperature and light (while always having ample food).


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## reptiles12

Wow well there are a lot of issues, it would be a shame to loose one of my frogs so I think I'll just practice for when I need them. And regarding pesticides there are none put down by my family but my helicopter or other things I do not know so I'm not risking it. And parasites can get to all of my other cages and my reptiles so for bugs that I can buy its not worth it.


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## BlueRidge

For that though, who's to say that FF's and isopods don't have any nasties in them? They are insects and who's to know how they were kept down the line.


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## Ed

As was noted earlier.. serial culturing significantly reduces the risks of parasites being transferred from the cultured insects and it's hard to find a invertebrate that has undergone more serial culturing than the fruit flies we use as feeders. 

Ed


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