# My Mysti's



## Cornish-J (Mar 14, 2013)

such great characters, and really bold with the right conditions. i've got 3 in a 40cm cube but when me and the gf move into our new house i'm going to give them a big dutch rana viv. 

Anyway, here's a few pics...


IMG_0358 by .JayD., on Flickr


IMG_0355 by .JayD., on Flickr


IMG_0354 by .JayD., on Flickr

MystiCall1_1 by .JayD., on Flickr

PDF_1 by .JayD., on Flickr


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## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

Stunning frogs. Thanks for sharing the pictures.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Are they more available in europe? It seems like the only people you hear about haveing them are over seas.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Im jealous :|.


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## Toxic (Jul 9, 2012)

What a beautiful frog. Too bad their illegal in the US


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanks for sharing... they are pretty cool frogs



scoy said:


> Are they more available in europe? It seems like the only people you hear about haveing them are over seas.


Well, they are 100% illegal here... so even if you did have them you wouldn't want to go posting it on a public forum. Hence why you only hear about them from overseas. From what I understand their legality in Europe is a little more of a grey area in that some countries say they are legal and some do not.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Can't get enough of these frogs... You have a full tank shot?


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## hughjass5976 (Mar 12, 2012)

carola1155 said:


> Thanks for sharing... they are pretty cool frogs
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they are 100% illegal here... so even if you did have them you wouldn't want to go posting it on a public forum. Hence why you only hear about them from overseas. From what I understand their legality in Europe is a little more of a grey area in that some countries say they are legal and some do not.


being a noob, I don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but what makes certain populations illegal in the US, but not in other markets? Is it some sort of importation laws from a certain country, or threatened species status?

Either ways, fantastic looking animals, and thanks for sharing.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

hughjass5976 said:


> being a noob, I don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but what makes certain populations illegal in the US, but not in other markets? Is it some sort of importation laws from a certain country, or threatened species status?
> 
> Either ways, fantastic looking animals, and thanks for sharing.


Not a dumb question at all... I just wish there was a simple answer to it. The simplest answer (I think) would be along the lines of what you suggested and say that different countries have different rules governing the sale and trade of animals. This is a very big generalization though. 

Some frogs originated from forged/fake paperwork that made them appear to be legal at first, but when it turned out they weren't it was too late and the frogs were already spread all over and breeding in captivity. 

Other frogs were legally imported for things like research and then snuck their way into the hobby.

etc...etc...etc... haha


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

The main issue with these beautiful creatures is....they have never been legally exported to "any country".. They were illegally poached out of the wild then established in Europe.. Just out of curiosity, hoe much are they in the UK?


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Nice frogs! Keep the frog and viv pictures coming!

How many do you have? Have they bred for you?


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

TheCoop said:


> The main issue with these beautiful creatures is....they have never been legally exported to "any country".. They were illegally poached out of the wild then established in Europe.. Just out of curiosity, hoe much are they in the UK?


They are usually around $100 US and are readily available.


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Really? Most threads it looks like they run about as much as one of the more uncommon auratus morphs do here, $60-$70.

D


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I kinda wish we could just legitimize the ones already in captivity at this point. We know there are people here that have them and are just keeping it on the DL, and others who want them here and else where that would be willing to support smuggling efforts...My point is in the EU, they are there, they are mostly legal enough places that I'm not sure any good is being served by restricting those CB animals to those places now, with the exception of the few willing to take the risk in places they aren't legal. 

*TO BE CLEAR I'D ONLY WANNA SEE THIS HAPPEN IF IN THE LONG RUN IT HURT THE SMUGGLING EFFORTS AND HELPED THE ANIMALS.*

Basically I'm saying there is enough over in the EU, and maybe here that perhaps the wild populations would be safer if we just opened the doors on the CB ones and let CB populations get established here and other places where they weren't legal. 

I suppose there are diplomatic concerns though, and the chance that the legitimizing the CB ones will at least in the short term potentially fuel a smuggling boom if they think they can hide them as legit CB animals. 

It would really be nice to see some practical/real world evidence/studies for these or other animals in the past that illuminates which course is best/worse for the animals *in most cases in the long run.*... Taking into account those other animial's/Mysti's situation in the wild at that time.


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## Cornish-J (Mar 14, 2013)

I've got 3, 2males and maybe 1 female (i'm hoping), no eggs yet but they are pretty much at breeding age now so when temps get above 0 here in the UK i'll start to see some courting perhaps.

They go for about £60 here in the UK - i got mine from Stu on here, his thread is called something like 'da dart room' i think.

I'll get some more pictures soon along with some viv shots. 

They've only recently gone in to their new home, they've had some house mates for a couple months whilst it was being refurbished 


DSC_0152 by .JayD., on Flickr


DSC_0149 by .JayD., on Flickr


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Mystis have essentially the same story as any other new frog that pops up on the continent, the only difference being that Mystis have NEVER been legally exported from Peru - leaving them straight up illegal whichever way you look at it.

Take Benedicta for example; smuggled stock hit the European shows and market towards the latter months of 2008. Regardless of their obvious origins and insane initial value, certain individuals jump on them. There's no denying it, these frogs breed wonderfully in captivity with Benedicta being a particularly prolific Thumb. Within a few months these individuals who were willing to take the risk, are over run with offspring. In the case of Benedicta, UE released their legal animals not months after this essentially cleansing ALL Benedicta on the market. Then the people with the frogs of smuggled origin simply slap UE on the name and most are none the wiser. 

The Orange/Blue Fantastica, Varadero Fantastica is another frog which is set to go the same way except UE's release of genuine legal frogs has been offset by years this time instead of months. Leaving all of those who have had them in their possession for a good couple of years now essentially in the wrong - irrelevant of how well they do!

In some respects, it could be beneficial to legitimize all CB Mystis in the hobby as in the right hands they can do wonderfully! As mentioned by the OP, Stu does absolutely fantastically with his Mystis - I genuinely know of nobody having the same level of success as him and applaud his work (he knows this!). People acquire these frogs in many different situations, Stu having gotten them not long after entering the hobby and wasn't up to speed with the background info, which I am sure he won't mind me saying. This is completely understandable, hell I done the same thing in the past (purchasing non UE Flavovittata as my first Thumb).

This being said, I personally wish for Mystis to stay as they are. In most cases it paints a clear picture of people and their morals which I feel can only be beneficial in a hobby like ours. But on the other hand I can see that if no one intends to release these frogs to the hobby legally, then better captive management and breeding could be also beneficial. Ita a tough call, but I fully appreciate the affect smuggling has on legitimate breeding programs such as UE and support Marks choice in not considering Mystis as a project.

I guess rant over, and back to the OP. Stunning frogs, the others Leuc fantastic (see what I done?) aswell! All the best with them, you shouldn't have any problems with stock of such quality!

All the best,
Richie


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Bearded dragons showed up in the hobby without Australia ever having exported any. And I think they are legal here, ha ha.....So is the difference the endangered status of the mystis that makes them continued to be illegal?


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

There have been a few EU imports that snuck in mysteriousus, and believe it or not, captivus. I only know of one person with both though. 

D


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

R1ch13 said:


> Mystis have essentially the same story as any other new frog that pops up on the continent, the only difference being that Mystis have NEVER been legally exported from Peru - leaving them straight up illegal whichever way you look at it.
> 
> Take Benedicta for example; smuggled stock hit the European shows and market towards the latter months of 2008. Regardless of their obvious origins and insane initial value, certain individuals jump on them. There's no denying it, these frogs breed wonderfully in captivity with Benedicta being a particularly prolific Thumb. Within a few months these individuals who were willing to take the risk, are over run with offspring. In the case of Benedicta, UE released their legal animals not months after this essentially cleansing ALL Benedicta on the market. Then the people with the frogs of smuggled origin simply slap UE on the name and most are none the wiser.
> 
> ...


Ya it sucks that the smugglers basically get away with it ;( ...but in the long run is the species better off, by letting the CB take pressure off the wild populations? Seems like if it was still illegal to import them from their natural origins then the smugglers would be have to essentially launder them through the EU, but still be at risk of getting caught for a frog that could be widely available as CB in a short time....If that is the case with mysti's...if they are really hard then maybe not such a good plan. Seems like how prolific they are, and their status in the wild would both need to be considered...like pums that are rare here but you can't throw a rock without hitting one in their home country, and breed fairly easily may be good candidates...but others that are rare at home, and hard to breed abroad, maybe not so much. 

Where is Ed to hit us with the studies/stats and whatnot of other examples?


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Dendroguy said:


> There have been a few EU imports that snuck in mysteriousus, and believe it or not, captivus. I only know of one person with both though.
> 
> D


Honestly, if you know someone working with captives, you should be reporting them. I have no problem coming out and saying that either. Doesn't get too much more obviously illegal than that.

As for mysteriousus, they are incredible looking frogs. But they are illegal no matter how you look at it because Peru never let them leave the country legally. Really doesn't matter what other countries say about it.


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

thedude said:


> Honestly, if you know someone working with captives, you should be reporting them. I have no problem coming out and saying that either. Doesn't get too much more obviously illegal than that.
> 
> As for mysteriousus, they are incredible looking frogs. But they are illegal no matter how you look at it because Peru never let them leave the country legally. Really doesn't matter what other countries say about it.


Rumors, nothing more. I should have stated that in my previous post, apologies.

D


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Richie,thank you for the kind words. 
There is no question,in my mind, that this little frog that,we walked into a shop and bought on the spur of the moment as CB stems from smuggled animals.I didn't know it at the time,I wish I had,but I didn't.I actually went to buy some camo auratus,that stemmed from UE stock hmm they turned out to be labeled wrong they are superblues,tis a minefield here for a novice that genuinely cares. This frog is the one frog that has never been released from it's native country into the hobby,period,there is no going back to old cities imports or such like to "wash" them.To the best of my knowledge what Adam and Richie have said is true
At that time I was genuinely unaware of all this,so we set about breeding them.As we learnt more we became aware of the facts. What does one do in this situation,I abore smuggling,I've seen the pictures somewhere of dead and dying mysties confiscated at Lima airport I believe,it broke my bloody heart.

I've come to the conclusion that there is little I can do to make this situation right.There is absolutely no need whatsoever for any more frogs of this species to be taken from the wild,but I also know if a market such as the USA opened its doors then probably some would be smuggled,which is such a shame because if you give them what they need,they can be very prolific in captivity
Now,i breed them, and spread them about,here. They are wonderful frogs to keep blessed with way more character than their amazing looks would have you believe. they are in the water for around 51/2 months parents want uvb and vit A 2 times per month eggs are tiny and tads at first miniscule.Get things wrong and they will suffer from sls. 

'Ere Jaime they look great 

regards

Stu


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