# Stiff Frog Disease?



## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

Anyone ever had a perfectly health frog start to act lethargic and "stiff"? He used to be an active plump frog eating like mad and climbing the glass, but not anymore. I haven't changed anything in the viv, humidity and temp are fine (85 and 78 respectively). Food has been FFs with Vt and Ca dusting. He's in a tank by himself so no "peer" pressure. I've had him for close to 4 months. Weird.... I think I'm going to pull him this afternoon for a pedialyte soak but I don't know what would change his condition to it's current state? Hmmm Suggestions?

Mike


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

No suggestions, but I had that happen to two cobalts that I got this winter.
Had them for two and a half months, during which they were feeding and growing real well.
One morning I was making the rounds when I noticed one in a corner of a tank sprawled out, and I could tell right away that wasn't good. I went to take the sprawled frog out, and the other one, sitting upright in the opposite corner didn't move, so I nudged him, and He still didn't move, so I took him out to give a pedialyte soak...he was stiff as a board. I found it really weird because he looked normal...almost as if he'd been to a taxidermist overnight.
During the pedialyte soak, he took a couple breaths, moved his head a little, and that was it...both of them died.
In my situation, since the frogs were together, I'm thinking it may be stress induced. I didn't change anything in the frogs feeding, watering, etc.
Sorry I don't have any advice,


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## Dunner97074 (Sep 19, 2004)

Brian,
That's exactly what I'm looking at now, except my guy jumps away after you nudge him. Weird.

Mike


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Yeah it sucks...if it hadn't been so close after the holidays, I would have shelled out the cash for necropsy (sp?)...I really would like to know what went wrong...these were the first (and only, so far) frogs that I had die on me...really knocked down my confidence for a while.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Sorry to hear about both of your situations and good luck Mike. I would definitely give it a pedialyte soak, as I don't think it will hurt. There is nothing worse than worrying about a sick frog only to have he/she pass away. I know that this has been talked about almost to death, but I'm wondering if this is a product of long term dietary deficits. I have talked to a couple of different breeders with varying opinions. One feeds their frogs nothing but dusted FFs. Another uses a very nutrient rich FF media mixture and the last one gut loads their frogs with nutrient rich FF larvae every 10 - 14 days. Mike, do you feed them anything other than dusted FFs? I remember that you had termites at one point, but may not have access because of winter.

Another thing to consider and maybe not for this particular situation, but in general many of our captive bred frogs are many generation deep that may not have survived the natural culling process in the Amazon. In other words, are we hand raising on a very intimate level otherwise inferior frogs to become adults that would die naturally at a very young age?


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

I would get the frog to a vet and get it tested for chytrid. If it is chytrid it is treatable but if it is chytrid and not treated, it could kill all of your frogs. Chytrid causes a thickening of the dermis and the stiffness makes me wonder.

Finding frogs stiffed out and dead makes me wonder about CO2 asphixiation.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

bbrock said:


> Finding frogs stiffed out and dead makes me wonder about CO2 asphixiation.


In my case, that would make sense, since I found them that way in the early morning.


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## rburnj (Aug 19, 2004)

I wouldn't go as far as chytrid as of yet. The best idea is to get a necropsy done on it. However, the price of the necropsy doesn't justify the price of the frog most of the time. Also, you can get a diagnosis but there is still very little that you can do as treatment or preventative for your other frogs. In most cases you just have to wait it out and hope that the frogs are not heavily immuno-comprimised.

I would suspect a bacterial infection or maybe even lungworms. You have to remember that animals are very stoic. If they exhibited vulnerability in the wild, they would be as good as the next dinner entree. Ive stated it before but I think people would very surprised what they can find lurking in their collection. Most think that because a frog eats, and acts normally that it is healthy. This isn't always the case. You can walk past a person and think they are healthy and the find out they have cancer or an immune mediated disease. What Im trying to say is that physical appearance isn't an exact indicator of health. 

If you find a dramatic decrease in activity and health of your frog then it is probably something that they have been battling for awhile. I would seriously look into bacterial infections such as mycobacterium and other parasitic infections.

I'm sorry to hear about your loses. There is nothing more frustrating than loosing an animal for no "apparent" reason. Amphibians definitely are not the easiest animal to care for in captivity and much more information on their physiology and disease processes need to be worked out so they we can better understand their care and treatment. 

Just make sure that contact is limited with the rest of your collection, and that care is taken on your behalf to not spread something potential detrimental to your other animals.

Best,

Ryan


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