# S.A.D.S: An Emerging Coalition



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

For some time now there has been a growing group of hobbyists gathering around a common frustration: the blatant use of slang to reference Dendrobatid frog species.

In the beginning an occasional "triv" seemed acceptable as it could get tedious to type out the entire "trivittata" over and over again in a post. But then it was imis...and then lams...and then the complete dropping of letters altogether, such as the case with "histo" rather than "histrionica." _Oophaga sylvatica_ has become "sylvas" and "sylvos" and even "salvos." And using "pums" to reference pumilio just sounds downright dirty.

So, in the great and grammatically correct spirit of Winston Churchill, this is simply something up with which we shall no longer put. Because it's not just about us. It's about the frogs. 

Because, you see, it hurts their feelings.

Taxonomists and biologists have worked laboriously to classify these organisms in an attempt to better understand the incredible biosphere in which we find ourselves and the branches within the great tree of life upon which they perch. These scientific names (not Latin names) are given to provide the best possible description of the animal, what it is, and how it exists in relation to other similar animals in its genus, family, etc. It provides a 'universal' language so that, no matter what country you are from or language you speak, you can reference a specific organism and the two of you (or more) can know exactly what it is you are talking about. What a brilliant system.

This system, however, has come under attack in recent years as 'text speak' has inserted numbers and characters in everyday language...as Twitter has forced it's oppressive 140-character limit upon society...and as fingers have seemingly come down with a sort of fatigue, unable to complete the last 3-4 letters of a given species, saying simply that it's "too much work." A troubling situation we find ourselves in, to say the least.

But the real impact has been on the frogs who, upon dealing with habitat fragmentation and modification, now have to deal with the confusion of their very identities. Such small creatures with such small intellects should not have to wrestle with such profound philosophical problems such as these. It just makes them sad.

So please, learn the scientific names. Use them properly. Not just for me. Not just for your fellow hobbyists.

But for the frogs.











_This message brought to you by S.A.D.S: The Society Against Dendrobatid Slang_


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is a funny post that raises an important point.

To point out an example, the cichlid hobby uses a befuddling jumble of Latin names, alternated with common names, alternated with shortened and further butchered Latin names. If you look around online is so difficult to understand which fish is in question. 

The cichlid hobby has been around for several decades already and most of those hobbyists will always use those confusing cichlid hobby names. The frog hobby is much younger by comparison, so there is till time to try to reinforce better practice in the use of real scientific names.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

/signed

10char


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## Micro (Dec 26, 2011)

i will now use the complete names of all frogs in which i reference in my posts!
H-A-P-P-Y 
HAPPY AMPHIBIANS PROPER PRONUNCIATION YEAR!


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

On a purely logistical note: using the actual species names helps in searching the archives of DB threads. For example, if I want to do some research on _Ameerega altamazonica_, I could miss entire threads that only mention "altas." This could impact how useful a resource the DB archive of past threads and conversations may be in the future.


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

skylsdale said:


> On a purely logistical note: using the actual species names helps in searching the archives of DB threads. For example, if I want to do some research on _Ameerega altamazonica_, I could miss entire threads that only mention "altas." This could impact how useful a resource the DB archive of past threads and conversations may be in the future.


Great point. I just had this happen to me today. I had to search three different times to find what I needed. All it takes is a small typo or difference and you won't get what you need.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I tend to use the abbreviations that are used in scientific nomeclature. So, in referencing the "Azureus" morph of Dendrobates tinctorius, I would wirte D.t. azureus. I think this would work for most of the frog morphs we work with.

Richard.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

awesome pic guys


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Bringing this back up...for the frogs.


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

Woodsman said:


> I tend to use the abbreviations that are used in scientific nomeclature. So, in referencing the "Azureus" morph of Dendrobates tinctorius, I would wirte D.t. azureus. I think this would work for most of the frog morphs we work with.
> 
> Richard.


That could be confusing since that is how you designate subspecies, which most if not all morphs of dart frog are not. I think D. tinctorius "Azureus" is the best way of saying it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Another option, which should be easy to implement if the mods will do so. The good word filter.



> So I know most forums scripts have word filters that will stop someone from using profanity or any other term the admins do not like and replace it with another word.
> 
> It has always bugged me that once people get used to a name they start to shorten it. This is fine for those in the know but if someone is searching the internet for something it often will not be caught. It also does not help new people because they have maze of terms to learn and it is bad enough they must know many terms but they must also find the redundant terms meaning it take longer to learn everything. PDFs OOPS I Mean poison dart frogs have a lot to learn, species names, locals, and often anyone of those is shortened and they are combined every which way. And often if you see something listed as a local and you are new you don't even know what species it is and this is worse since many locals are named after places and the searches will get you to results about the place not the frogs.
> 
> ...


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Ron I appreciate what you are trying to do here,but please spare a thought for those of us that struggle with Latin names,can't see letters like you do. It doesn't mean I don't care about my frogs because I call them by abbreviations.My frogs don't give a ****. They know who I am,they really don't care that my English Lang. is my Achilles(that took 5 attempts and help for me to get that right for you) heel. This is not for the frogs!!

The point is why in god's name would we be worrying about language when we have a campaign running for sustainable frogs,supported by HOW MANY?

Look I try mate,it takes me a lot of time to get the letters right, ages and ages of toil ,most of the time to help someone else. But as a guy that looks out for others,who have real problems I feel for those,that struggle more than I. Each and every subject at school I walked through apart from one!! Would I say I suffer from dyslexia (FIVE MORE MINUTES) that is something I'm loath to call myself for them,but I feel you are discriminating on folks like me,not me but them. 

I have to give them a voice,I don't care what you think of me,it's utterly irrelevant,but lets not be primitive about this.Some guys try real hard but have problems so they use leuc,it doesn't and never will mean they do not care or are a lesser keeper than a guy gifted with letters,it just means trying to spell Leucamadas isn't a burden and they can ask their question , or help someone,without worrying. I have to speak for them Ron,sure I know this is really directed at guys whom just don't care,but they will always be that way.


Riddle me this Ron, should I think worse of a guy that has problems and try's his best or the guy waiting to buy a legit Lehmannii ,but won't stump up ten bloody bucks? ? ?

Give me some 'ickle aminals Ron,let me spend time with them, get to know them and them me.My words are superfluous, The tone is what is important,the quiet stockman's banter is what they react to .

Ok I give in,one of my leucs did get pissed at the fact I spelt her name wrong,but she forgave me when I stopped calling her Fatty. 

Take care

Stu


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

"stump up"???? HUH???


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

It's not that difficult to use proper names.

If you are on your computer use Ctrl+C to copy and Ctrl+V to paste.

If you are in the real world just write the name down on a piece of paper.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Judy S said:


> "stump up"???? HUH???


Brits Judy,yeah I know slang for give some money. It's amazing how different our use of the same language is . I get read lines under everything I write incorrectly,then substitute letters until it's correct.But what is really hard is your culture and mine don't even spell the same words in the same way,so for folks worse than me,it must be a complete night mare

Hydrophyte, genuinely I have sat for five minutes trying to work out how to write the words one, sure a really bad day for me.We don't all come with the same gifts my friend,what is so easy for you, might not be the same for others.
That's my point really

best

Stu


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

stu&shaz said:


> Ron I appreciate what you are trying to do here,but please spare a thought for those of us that struggle with Latin names,can't see letters like you do.


Although I recognize that this might be a difficulty for you, personally, I don't think dyslexia is the underlying problem here. Also, there is a difference between the misspelling of a scientific name and the actual creation of slang terms and nicknames. If I were a "noob" and started reading a thread about how difficult "salvos" are to breed, it would actually take a good deal of time and research to make the connections that people were referring to a frog with the species name _sylvatica_. Again, it's not just a letter misplacement or confusion, but outright recreation of a name.

Furthermore, I don't expect banks or the 'language' of numbers to change because of my synesthesia and the difficulty it can cause in my ability to work with numbers. When I deposit my paycheck, I don't just type in random numbers at the ATM machine. When I create an invoice, I don't throw arbitrary 'number names' in categories and hope the customer knows what I'm talking about. I don't arbitrarily leave out the number 7 because I don't like it. I work within the constructs of the commonly accepted order, despite the difficulties that may arise due to my individual neurological perception.

In the same way, the entire purpose of scientific nomenclature is to have a language that anyone--regardless of the language they speak--can say the name of an organism and all parties involved will know exactly what they are talking about. It's a matter of respect for not only a time-proven system, but also for people new to the hobby and people who may participate in discussions on this forum whose native language isn't English.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

To add to this. Often times people in this world mistakenly think they are doing good by trying to simplify something for other people. Because the immediate learning of something slightly harder seems like a barrier. But in the end all they do is way more harm. It is not natural for anyone to rattle off any word except one they have practiced. skylsdale is simply asking you to practice it and then yes you will easily repeat and write it, heck your phone will even auto complete it once you enter it in once. 

I cannot see how it would be any less difficult for someone of another language to learn the English common name than the latin name. Both are simply not their language. 

Some examples are, when a video game company sets certain key binds such that a weapon or function should be easier to understand because they use the letter key that the function starts with. But what happens when the person from Korea plays the same game? All they are stuck with is a senseless inefficient layout. Then everyone who needs to get good at the game recognizes this and starts making their own more efficient layouts. In the end everything is a complete mess. 

Same with lights, we screwed up early on when we tried to go by watts instead of actual measures of light and teaching people to look at a spectrum. So what is the end result? Oh well we now have like 10 different ways to measure a light. 

Its not about gifted or not gifted its simply about forcing yourself to do the right thing for the longer term good. Nothing different than anything else anyone does in their life. The end result of using and learning the correct names is WAYYYYYY simpler than trying to memorize many different names.

Another example I hate is the display industry. Hey instead of just telling people a display is 1920x1080 lets come up with the term full HD, but why full? Oh because we already used the term HD, but when we move to 4K will they understand? Not sure because we screwed up, so we will call it 4K AND ultra HD, as well as the needed 2160p and of course some will just state 3840 x 2160. Now kindly wander over to Wikipedia and meddle in the alphabet soup of display standards and tell me if that actually did make anything easier now that we have like 2-5 names for each resolution and see if anyone has them all memorized.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Ron you win,I said my piece,for those whom struggle more than I.Sure we need a universal nomenclature. But take it from me that a new guy that wants it, will find what an abbeviation means. God forbid what on earth is an iso?

I really need to spend this time, I have, trying to work out how I can convince some far more educated Germans than I to support a cause I think could be a bench mark force in South America. 

Ron you do have my utter respect, but no you won't see it in letters

take care

Stu


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

No worries, Stu...and I definitely don't see it as a contest. This was just a comical/satirical way to bring attention to something. And as I said before, I understand that some may have actual difficulty with this, and I can understand that. But I don't think the vast majority of others can claim that as a reason.

And "iso?" That's easy: it's short for "International Standards Organization" – the main governing body that standardizes sensitivity ratings for camera sensors and is a pretty standard acronym in photography. Everybody knows that.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

One of the things that is problematic in my opinion is that the nicknames for the various frogs are often used as an indication of being in the "know"... kind of a method for excluding other people and to show off... 

Sadly many of the more recent turns of slang, not only often have additional letters but the addition of the "y" or "es" or "ies" endings sound a lot like some form of "babytalk"... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Funny, and I understand where you're coming from especially since anytime I look into a new hobby, I see all the slang/abbreviations and then have to decipher it all and I feel frustrated.

On the other hand I am old, lazy and set in my ways... So forgive me please when I forget and/or am lazy and continue to say "trivs", "galacts", "luecs" and etc..etc... 

If you don't forgive me I will post all the really long convoluted crap I usually post in "leet speak", and then you'll be sorry!


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## Meefloaf (Apr 22, 2013)

Ed said:


> Sadly many of the more recent turns of slang, not only often have additional letters but the addition of the "y" or "es" or "ies" endings sound a lot like some form of "babytalk"...
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


Mysties 










on the whole abbreviation thing, Leuc isnt really the biggest evil in the frog world is it ?. Also, as a 'n00b' if someone started reeling off a list of frog's name to me in person, other than a few clues, I'd not have a clue what he was jabbering on about. Basically, whilst slang will not help in people learning correct terms, it'll not scare new people away from the hobby.

Also, I've seen far more worse issues regarding the correct naming of plants to be honest

p.s Ron, how do you spell COLOUR ?


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Meefloaf said:


> Leuc isnt really the biggest evil in the frog world is it ?.


https://www.google.com/search?q=Leuc+&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-ContextMenu&ie=&oe=


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## Meefloaf (Apr 22, 2013)

Pubfiction said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=Leuc+&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-ContextMenu&ie=&oe=


i like this game

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=L...fH7Abnq4CQDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=612

very first image


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I guess things are better for you in the UK, doesn't change the point if people took the time to write it out they would find the information faster and there would be no question about the discussion. Second, every time someone writes luec instead of leucomelas, they inhibit search engines from connecting all the dots. I have seen whole long threads on dendroboard and elsewhere, where not a single person wrote the full name of a frog. Some of these threads are very informational and guess what? They wont show up on an internet search. So now a newbie is forced to first find out what the real name is then determine all the slang and short names, then spend 5 x as long searching all the different terms if they are looking for a specific piece of information. 

Try it the right way https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=L...s=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-ContextMenu&tbm=isch

And see how much better that was. 

https://www.google.com/#q=d.+leucomelas

How about mysties?

Point is everyone gains if you do it right, no one wins if you do it wrong. There is just no gain at all to doing it wrong. All you do is teach more people to not know how to spell it and make it harder for new entrants to the hobby. And doing this costs you almost nothing, not like you need to donate $1000 to help, its just the smallest amount of your time. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=mis...CAgQ_AUoAA&biw=1600&bih=803&dpr=1.2#q=mysties

https://www.google.com/search?q=mys...ew2QWBuIHICA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=803

No one gains if you use slang and short names, it costs you almost nothing to do it right. And it helps the hobby bring new people in easier and make less mistakes. Look if someon is spending a ton of time just trying to figure out what the heck everyone is talking about that is time they are NOT spending researching proper husbandry practices. That doesn't even touch on them maybe not being able to find an important thread on specific care of a frog because that frog is refered to as salvos.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It should also be noted that on this forum, words have to have more than three letters to be able to search it... So when someone types "iso" they shoot the forum search engine in the foot so to suggest that they use the search engine is no longer a valid response. 

Try googling iso and see where that gets you... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Meefloaf (Apr 22, 2013)

Most people in the UK tend to ask questions and dont get shouted at for not knowing every intricate name under the sun, i know it's a hassle answering same questions, but i'd imagine most people just entering the hobby would create a thread asking these questions, rather than on a thread (at the risk of wolves). Perhaps it's because I hate grammar nazi's, I get your point's, but i think going round correcting people -nerd voice- "well, ah ha, i think you'll find it's called Excidobates Mysteriosus" etc etc

the other thing, over on rfuk, there's a nice little group of us and generally the odd newer person comes in and they get directed to threads and people to talk to, i understand this forum is much larger and such would perhaps be a nightmare. BUT at the same time, it means that newer people get a more personal experience from fellow keepers. and dont get talked to like naughty children


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

> 148 members and 658 guests


This is what the forum says right now. Some portion of those guests will never make an account and never post a question. 

Contrary to popular belief not everyone asks questions. You ever been in a class room and seen the professor go through an entire lecture, ask if anyone has any questions and see what percent of the class asks? Different people learn different ways and the lurkers who never register and post are still valid members of the hobby and they still create ad revenue for the forum. They might just be the type whom prefer to read on their own. Or they could fear getting told to try the search engine. Maybe they have too much pride to admit they do not know, who knows. What ever their reasons it doesn't matter, its just better for the whole to make it easier on everyone else by giving them more information faster. 

At any rate I know with any subject there will always be people who just do not want to pitch in, or simply disagree which is part of why I suggested the good word filter above. But given dendroboard is now owned by a company somehow I doubt we will ever get that implemented.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Meefloaf said:


> p.s Ron, how do you spell COLOUR ?


I actually tend to spell it "colour"...and "theatre"...and "grey."


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