# Great black wasp!!!!



## QRICH

So I was adding some film canisters to my luec tank and I heard a loud flying sound. I about screamed like a lil kid who almost stepped on a rattle snake. It was a large black wasp with blueish wing. I freaking great black wasp is in my tank. How the eff did it get in there? Lol most my fruitflie barely escape but yet a wasp manages to get into my tank. Does anyone know if it will hurt my frogs? It's dark and I don't want to start messing with this wasp. Any thoughts would be great.


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## Grrrit

I'm sure you can shoo it out peacefully if you remain calm and collected. Every encounter I have with wasps and yellow jackets, I politely ask them to leave my personal bubble as I coax them away. Any "swift" or aggressive movements will surely startle it and put him in defense mode. I certainly wouldn't leave it in there. 

try trapping it in a soda bottle. Who knows, you could freeze it and make a wasp kite


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## Steve88W

Vacuum
I friggen hate wasps.


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## marylanddartfrog

you may not have a fly at all you may have a soldier fly its larva may have been in the substrate they mimic a mud dobber wasp but does not have a stinger,can you take a pic?


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## marylanddartfrog

you may not have a wasp at all you may have a soldier fly its larva may have been in the substrate they mimic a mud dobber wasp but does not have a stinger,can you take a pic?


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## guppygal

Two things - Grrrrit, there is no effing way I'd remain calm in the presence of a great big wasp. I be runnin fer da hills ~ Give me snake, tho, and I'm a happy camper.

2nd thing - I do believe that MDFrogger is correct. It probably is a black solder fly and if there is one, there may be more.

Oh, and one more 2nd thing - I'll go with Steve's vacuum idea any ol' day. I love vacuuming up mean old bugs. I also get a kick out of spraying them with hairspray, especially wayward fruitflies and houseflies. I wouldn't do that inside a tank, though ~

Okay, QRich - get yer big boy britches on and handle that bug. Get a pix, though, so we can tell you what kind of anti-venom you'll need 

All better now? Good. My job is done.

kristi


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## QRICH

So I am trying to get a pic but I have confirmed that it is def a great black wasp. No doubt in my mind. Blueish wings black body sounds like a monster when it flys. Lol we have these stupid things in Colorado and the sting well in compared to being bite by a bullet ant.


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## QRICH

Everyone look up great black wasp. That is what i am dealing with. Looks exacty like it.


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## guppygal

OMG ! Sell the house and MOVE !

Okay, since this isn't an option, your other best bet is the vacuum cleaner hose. I've used DustBusters before, but the wasps were mainly red wasps and yellow jackets. Grrrit's bottle idea is pretty good, too.

I read that theses wasps are burrowers and they sleep in their burrows at night. I personally would be worried that a wasp the size of a Leuc would sting it to death. Maybe it would be better to lift the hood and let the dang thing out into the house. I'm sure you'd rather mangle the house trying to kill the wasp than have it kill your Leucs.

Ugh......


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## JimO

If you can't vacuum it, and you could easily remove the frogs, use a CO2 bomb.

Grrrt - I appreciate your ability to remain calm and shoo them away, but I'm no wasp whisperer myself. They sting first and ask questions later. I got into a yellow jacket nest collecting leaves last summer. Three or four hit me at once and I sprinted out of the woods, screaming like a little girl, and they chased me all the way to my car and were buzzing around the window.

I had to come back later covered in a hoody sweatshirt, a face mask, goggles and covered with trash bags just to retrieve my stuff.

Whoa! I paused for a moment and looked it up. Forget the CO2 and do the following: Remove the frogs, seal the viv, take it to a well ventilated open area outside your house, drill a small hole in through some plastic part of the viv and inject about a quart of gasoline, attach a long fruse, then stand back and light it.


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## billschwinn

Wait till it is asleep at night and use the hose off the vacum.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5652810_kill-great-black-wasp.html


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## guppygal

JimO, am I feeling some kind of latent aggression building up here? I mean, I'm all for blowing up the neighborhood to get rid of a wasp infestation, but sumptin tells me that the local authorities won't see the good in it as we do.

You might be on to something, tho. If the tank is small enuf to be toted outside and the lid opened up, I'm thinking that big black nasty will buzz out on its own.

The visual of you sailing out of the woods, screaming like a lil girl had me in stitches, until I got to the part of you dressed in a hoody and the black plastic bags. You're lucky that you weren't arrested, or at least, put in a straightjacket.

QRich, is any of this helpful at all to you? I'm getting kick out of it ~

kristi


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## zBrinks

Feed phoenix worms before? That's what they turn into - soldier flies. They look like big black wasps with bluish wings. My terribs love them.


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## guppygal

billschwinn said:


> Wait till it is asleep at night and use the hose off the vacum.
> How to Kill a Great Black Wasp | eHow.com


I saw the same thing, Bill. And then I thought to myself, Self - if I was to suck up that burrowing wasp, I'll probably suck up the entire substrate and all of my frogs. Whoa, there goes the coco hut.....


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## JimO

guppygal said:


> JimO, am I feeling some kind of latent aggression building up here? I mean, I'm all for blowing up the neighborhood to get rid of a wasp infestation, but sumptin tells me that the local authorities won't see the good in it as we do.


There is no latent aggression, it's right out there in the open. I hate wasps and fire ants and mosquitos, and horseflies. I never used to bother biting or stinging insects except in self defense or in defense of my kids. But, it really ticks me off when neurotic yellow jackets get aggressive in the fall just because their society is falling apart and they know that they'll all die before winter. And, when an insect or arachnid (ticks and chiggers) wants to feed on my blood (which I happen to need), it's all out war. Why can't they feed on discarded stuff like snot, ear wax or spit?



guppygal said:


> The visual of you sailing out of the woods, screaming like a lil girl had me in stitches, until I got to the part of you dressed in a hoody and the black plastic bags. You're lucky that you weren't arrested, or at least, put in a straightjacket.


I am so glad that my misfortunes entertain others. Considering the fact that I usually only get likes on posts like this one, I have come to the conclusion that my main contribution to DB is comic relief. But, making others laugh is a past-time of mine and a noble endeavor.

Some day I'll tell the story of my summer-long feud with a spider monkey named stubby at the St. Augustine Alligator Farm many years ago. Let's just say that I worked there as a teen and he started it by pulling my hair and banging my head against the fence when I bent down to pick up the banana he dropped. I also hate monkeys.

Sorry to digress. Kristi has a point. If you can carry the viv outside and remove the lid - problem solved.


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## JimO

Boy, that would suck...


guppygal said:


> I saw the same thing, Bill. And then I thought to myself, Self - if I was to suck up that burrowing wasp, I'll probably suck up the entire substrate and all of my frogs. Whoa, there goes the coco hut.....


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## JimO

Bill,

That is hysterical. I love the way they try to describe basically smashing a wasp like it's a complex lab experiment.

Oh and Kristi, note the first step - dressing in protective clothing. There is nothing in there about not wearing plastic trash bags. I just don't recommend it in Florida during the middle of a sunny afternoon.

I forgot to mention that when I first "encountered" the yellow jackets, the sprinting (probably 8.5 second 100 m) and little girl screams were accompanied by wild swatting and thrashing. I was probably hit over a dozen times. It would have made a great YouTube video.


billschwinn said:


> Wait till it is asleep at night and use the hose off the vacum.
> How to Kill a Great Black Wasp | eHow.com


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## guppygal

JimO said:


> There is no latent aggression, it's right out there in the open. I hate wasps and fire ants and mosquitos, and horseflies. I never used to bother biting or stinging insects except in self defense or in defense of my kids. But, it really ticks me off when neurotic yellow jackets get aggressive in the fall just because their society is falling apart and they know that they'll all die before winter. And, when an insect or arachnid (ticks and chiggers) wants to feed on my blood (which I happen to need), it's all out war. Why can't they feed on discarded stuff like snot, ear wax or spit?
> 
> 
> 
> I am so glad that my misfortunes entertain others. Considering the fact that I usually only get likes on posts like this one, I have come to the conclusion that my main contribution to DB is comic relief. But, making others laugh is a past-time of mine and a noble endeavor.
> 
> Some day I'll tell the story of my summer-long feud with a spider monkey named stubby at the St. Augustine Alligator Farm many years ago. Let's just say that I worked there as a teen and he started it by pulling my hair and banging my head against the fence when I bent down to pick up the banana he dropped. I also hate monkeys.
> 
> Sorry to digress. Kristi has a point. If you can carry the viv outside and remove the lid - problem solved.


Jim, you've got to STOP ! I work in a cube farm and the prairie dogs around me are popping up to see what's so dang funny. And I CAN'T TELL THEM !

I DO want to hear about the monkey, tho - deal me in.


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## JimO

guppygal said:


> Jim, you've got to STOP ! I work in a cube farm and the prairie dogs around me are popping up to see what's so dang funny. And I CAN'T TELL THEM !


Here's a couple for you:

What do you call a cow with no leg? Ground beef.

How about a pig with no legs? A groundhog, of course.

And a dog with no legs? It doesn't matter. He won't come anyway.

Sorry.

Show us the dead carcass if you manage to kill the wasp.


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## Ed

If you compare it to this picture of a soldier fly, you can see that your "great black wasp" is probably a soldier fly Aquaponics and Black Soldier Fly*Larva | The Aquaponic Source

Ed


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## QRICH

I am Positive this sucker is a great black was and not a soldier fly. I saw the stinger right before I sucked it up in the vacuum. lol Here are two pics one of a screen shot off my Iphone of what a great black wasp looks like and another of the wasp in my tank. They almost look Identical. Blueish wingsss, black bodies, beady frecking eyes.


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## Ed

Nope, your picture confirms it. It is a soldier fly. 

Ed


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## zBrinks

Do you feed phoenix worms ever? That looks identical to the soldier flies I get in my vivs from time to time. The eye proportion and wing/abdomen length ratio looks off compared to a great black wasp.


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## Ed

Look at the eyes.. it is clearly a fly (look at the size and shape of the eyes) and not a wasp. 


Ed


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## billschwinn

Ed said:


> If you compare it to this picture of a soldier fly, you can see that your "great black wasp" is probably a soldier fly Aquaponics and Black Soldier Fly*Larva | The Aquaponic Source
> 
> Ed


They are all over down here, their Creepy larvae get in my tub where I soak my used fly cups that smell like A$$! They have a long thing coming off one end of them.


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## randa4

QRICH said:


> I am Positive this sucker is a great black was and not a soldier fly. I saw the stinger right before I sucked it up in the vacuum. lol Here are two pics one of a screen shot off my Iphone of what a great black wasp looks like and another of the wasp in my tank. They almost look Identical. Blueish wingsss, black bodies, beady frecking eyes.


I think you are correct. Flies, member of the Family Diptera, only have ONE pair of wings. On the other hand, wasps are members of the Family Hymenoptera, and have TWO pairs of wings. Your image clearly shows two pairs of wings. Read your Entomology texts, and tell me what you find, OK?

Mike in Helotes


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## JimO

How big was it? Is that a ficus pumila leaf it is perched on? If so, then it's pretty dang small. I was picturing something the size of a raven or something.

Ok you insectologists out there. Let's have a consensus. If it's a soldier fly and only about a half inch long, then QRICH should be harassed mercilessly for being a sissy.  If it's the wasp, then we'll let you off the hook.


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## Ed

randa4 said:


> I think you are correct. Flies, member of the Family Diptera, only have ONE pair of wings. On the other hand, wasps are members of the Family Hymenoptera, and have TWO pairs of wings. Your image clearly shows two pairs of wings. Read your Entomology texts, and tell me what you find, OK?
> 
> Mike in Helotes


You have better eyes than me to be able to see that the second picture (of the insect in question) has two pairs of wings.. I went and put it up on the bigger computer screen and was unable to see that it had two pairs of wings.. however I could readily see the structure of the eyes and those are not the same as as Sphex pennyslvanicus but are the same as that of soldier fly (Hermetia illucens) and the structure of the body of that second picture closely matches Hermetia illucens (see again http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ting.jpg/500px-Black_soldier_flies_mating.jpg ) for a comparistion of the two sexes.


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## Ed

If you look at the short amount of leg available in the second picture, you can see the reflected overexposure that they are white (bottom to both sides of the insect) and not black as they would be in the wasp..... this is another characteristic that is pointing away from the Sphex wasp..... 

Ed


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## randa4

Ed said:


> You have better eyes than me to be able to see that the second picture (of the insect in question) has two pairs of wings.. I went and put it up on the bigger computer screen and was unable to see that it had two pairs of wings.. however I could readily see the structure of the eyes and those are not the same as as Sphex pennyslvanicus but are the same as that of soldier fly (Hermetia illucens) and the structure of the body of that second picture closely matches Hermetia illucens (see again http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ting.jpg/500px-Black_soldier_flies_mating.jpg ) for a comparistion of the two sexes.


Ed, 

Look on the left side of the wasp image and the second set of wings is clearly there. The hindwing is sticking out underneath the the forewing. Clearly. The antennae are not right either--these are HYMNEOPTERA antennae, longer than Diptera antennae. The eyes are NOT a key phenotypic differentiation for Diptera vs. Hymneoptera.

This is a wasp.

Mike


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## Ed

randa4 said:


> Ed,
> 
> Look on the left side of the wasp image and the second set of wings is clearly there. The hindwing is sticking out underneath the the forewing. Clearly. The antennae are not right either--these are HYMNEOPTERA antennae, longer than Diptera antennae. The eyes are NOT a key phenotypic differentiation for Diptera vs. Hymneoptera.
> 
> This is a wasp.
> 
> Mike


 
The wasp image is a wasp image that the OP pulled off the web to compare to the second picture of the insect in the enclosure. I'm not arguing that the first picture is a wasp... in fact it is the species I referenced (and am quite familar with as it is a regular in my garden). In the second picture you can't see the wing characteristic that you are referencing. The morphology of the eyes in the second picture diverge from that of the sphex wasp both in structure (and distance apart) as do the patterning on the legs that is visible... I've had both species in hand and the insect found in the OP's enclosure is an adult soldier fly (female)... 

Ed


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## QRICH

Its def a wasp. I have a lake in my backyard and those things burrow in the mud around here. It def has two sets of wings. I wish I was able to get a better pic but was no way in hell gonna get any closer to it. ( I know I hate being stung! Especially being that these SOB's hurt.) I don't feed any of my frogs soldier fly larva. I watched it for about a day before I mustard up the courage to vacuum it out of there. Anyways, glad I could bring some humor to you all today.


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## QRICH

Also it was about an inch in size.


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## randa4

Ed said:


> The wasp image is a wasp image that the OP pulled off the web to compare to the second picture of the insect in the enclosure. I'm not arguing that the first picture is a wasp... in fact it is the species I referenced (and am quite familar with as it is a regular in my garden). In the second picture you can't see the wing characteristic that you are referencing. The morphology of the eyes in the second picture diverge from that of the sphex wasp both in structure (and distance apart) as do the patterning on the legs that is visible... I've had both species in hand and the insect found in the OP's enclosure is an adult soldier fly (female)...
> 
> Ed


Ed,

You are correct.

Yup, did not realize the OP pulling the pic off the web, missed that. The second pic on the right is NOT a wasp, but a Dipterous bug, and your suspected fly. One pair of wings, and shorter, dipterous antennae.

Mike


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## JimO

Hmmm. All this over a one-inch long harmless fly. What should we do folks?



QRICH said:


> Also it was about an inch in size.


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## Neontra

QRICH said:


> So I am trying to get a pic but I have confirmed that it is def a great black wasp. No doubt in my mind. Blueish wings black body sounds like a monster when it flys. Lol we have these stupid things in Colorado and the sting well in compared to being bite by a bullet ant.


I'm in colorado and never seen this???


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## JimO

Thank you for the much-needed humor. BTW - you can get that mustard out with a mild ammonia solution. Good thing it wasn't ketchup. 


QRICH said:


> I watched it for about a day before I mustard up the courage to vacuum it out of there. Anyways, glad I could bring some humor to you all today.


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## Neontra

QRICH said:


> Its def a wasp. I have a lake in my backyard and those things burrow in the mud around here. It def has two sets of wings. I wish I was able to get a better pic but was no way in hell gonna get any closer to it. ( I know I hate being stung! Especially being that these SOB's hurt.) I don't feed any of my frogs soldier fly larva. I watched it for about a day before I mustard up the courage to vacuum it out of there. Anyways, glad I could bring some humor to you all today.


On your camera, set it so Super macro. It will take very sharp close up pics.


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## guppygal

Sorry, QRich - that danged ol' fly faked you out. MDFrogger and Ed nailed it. We get bsf larvae under the bird feeder and it DOES smell like, uh, hmmmmm - worse than whatever that poor dude who was doing the news during the hurricane was covered by. Foamy raw sewage, or so I heard. He thought it was sea-foam, but it 'tasted' horrible. 

duh.....(and gag)

But, if you're still in doubt, go out and catch one of those great black wasps and check it out. I can see the difference -

You can drag the bug out of the vacuum and take a good, sharp pix and we can all compare and confirm. 

OMG, this thread was such a hoot - the visual of JimO dressed in his hoody with goggles, a face mask, and plastic trash bags is the funniest thing I've read in a long time that didn't involve a shooting ~ 

Can't wait for the monkey story.....


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## Ed

QRICH said:


> Its def a wasp. I have a lake in my backyard and those things burrow in the mud around here.


Wasps don't burrow into mud. It would result in the larva drowning. What you are probably seeing are Organ Pipe Mud daubers (Trypoxylon politum) gathering mud to make thier nests. 

Ed


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## c81kennedy

About 3 months ago i have about six of those come out my tank in about a week. Every time a would catch and kill one another one or two would pop up. I had thought i was infested with mud dubers but after a week or two of catching them they never came back. At the time i was feeding my frogs the mini phoenix worms but had stop because they were a pain in the butt to feed.


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## tclipse

My girlfriend would probably start to hate my frogs if those things started popping up.....

HULK SMASH


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## QRICH

Ed,
Actually great black wasps do live underground. They burrow nests in the mud. Great black wasp are other wise known as "Sphex pensylvanicus" which are one of very few wasps that burrow. Well I am glad everyone found this thread humorous. I would quote people but have not downloaded the app for my iPhone and am not near a comp right now.


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## Ed

QRICH said:


> Ed,
> Actually great black wasps do live underground. They burrow nests in the mud. Great black wasp are other wise known as "Sphex pensylvanicus" which are one of very few wasps that burrow. Well I am glad everyone found this thread humorous. I would quote people but have not downloaded the app for my iPhone and am not near a comp right now.


If you noted above, I identified the Sphex wasp species that you used as a comparision, so oddly enough I am aware of the nesting habits of the Sphex wasp. While Sphex wasps do live in burrrows they do not make burrows in mud.. thier larva would drown in that case as the wasps would not be able to prevent water from filling the burrow.

As for the comment about "very few"... there are more than 100 species in the Sphex genus alone that are burrowing wasps. There are many more other species of solitary wasp that utilize burrows as a nesting site (including but not limited to "velvet ants"). 

The wasps you see out in/on the mud are not digging nesting burrows (or getting water to cool the nest in the case of social species), they are collecting mud to make nests. The insect you found in your tank was a fly and not a wasp (all of the observable characteristics clearly do not match). 

Ed


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## JimO

Qrich, you might as well not fight it. Ed is right. In fact, Ed is always right (dang it!). We have similar wasps in Florida and they burrow in sandy soil to lay eggs. I've watched them packing paralyzed spiders and insects into their nests and cover them up. I am also very familiar with mud daubers, which look very intimidating. Ed's right - they gather balls of mud and make nests inside structures or on the ceiling under porches, etc. They appear to be burrowing as they gather up a mud ball, but if you watch closely, you'll see them fly away with a mud ball that would be the size of a beach ball to us.

Ed - we have lots of velvet ants in the sandy areas in NE Florida. They are one of my absolute favorite insects, but they can sting the living snot out of you. I stepped on one once when I was a kid and it might as well have been a land mine. That was probably the worst single sting I ever got.

My worst encounter with stinging insects was, as noted above, my "Dances with Hornets" (yellow jackets to be exact - which I believe are a type of hornet) episode that guppygal found so funny. Those mean little flying hypodermic needles will make you hurt yourself trying to get away. One persistant little snot stayed on my driver side window for 15 minute crawling around frantically pumping his stinger in and out. All I could do is sit and whimper until I caught my breath enough to drive home, put meat tenderizer on the stings and go back with my personal protective equipment (aka PPE) to get my stuff. They were all over those plastic bags, but they couldn't get a grip to allow them to swing their abdomens up and sting through it. It was too slippery for them - HA!

By the way, meat tenderizer works wonders on some types of stings. The enzymes react with the venom and break it down. Make a paste out of it and put it on each sting. If that doesn't work, try baking soda. It helps neutralize formic acid from stings like those of fire ants.


Ed said:


> If you noted above, I identified the Sphex wasp species that you used as a comparision, so oddly enough I am aware of the nesting habits of the Sphex wasp. While Sphex wasps do live in burrrows they do not make burrows in mud.. thier larva would drown in that case as the wasps would not be able to prevent water from filling the burrow.
> 
> As for the comment about "very few"... there are more than 100 species in the Sphex genus alone that are burrowing wasps. There are many more other species of solitary wasp that utilize burrows as a nesting site (including but not limited to "velvet ants").
> 
> The wasps you see out in/on the mud are not digging nesting burrows (or getting water to cool the nest in the case of social species), they are collecting mud to make nests. The insect you found in your tank was a fly and not a wasp (all of the observable characteristics clearly do not match).
> 
> Ed


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## Ed

JimO said:


> Ed - we have lots of velvet ants in the sandy areas in NE Florida. They are one of my absolute favorite insects, but they can sting the living snot out of you. I stepped on one once when I was a kid and it might as well have been a land mine. That was probably the worst single sting I ever got.


We have them up here in Southern NJ as well. I showed them to my wife and cautioned her against ever picking them up. I need to see if there are several species as I've seen them with significant differences in size (or it could be the based on the size of the larva they parasitized) ranging from slightly less than half an inch up to more than an inch (try measuring a live one with calipers..). 




JimO said:


> My worst encounter with stinging insects was, as noted above, my "Dances with Hornets" (yellow jackets to be exact - which I believe are a type of hornet) episode that guppygal found so funny.


I've had more than my fair share of run ins with assorted wasps and hornets and some of them are downright hilarious to others when I tell them. To do them the best justice, they should be told over a beer or other drink.. 
If you locate a underground nest, use a wide mouthed mason jar and set it down firmly over the nest (best done at night), and push it slightly into the soil. The waspss emerge and fly up to the top of the jar and bounce down. It takes a couple of days for the colony to collapse but it works pretty well as it cuts off air flow so the colony either suffocates or overheats (here the skunks usually dig them up during that period). 
If the lip of the jar isn't firmly set into the ground, the wasps can sometimes learn to escape the jar. I've attached some pictures as an example. The pictures are day 2 in the morning, day 2 in the afternoon and day 4 as a comparision.


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## QRICH

I know Ed is ver knowledgable about many things. I am not trying to argue just stand on things that I think I know. Should have clarified that t
It was sand.


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## Ed

QRICH said:


> I know Ed is ver knowledgable about many things. I am not trying to argue just stand on things that I think I know. Should have clarified that t
> It was sand.


Yes, you should have clarified it was sand particularly since you repeatedly stated it was mud..and specifically mud around the lake....

Ed


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## fieldnstream

Velvet ants (we call them "cowkillers" down here) deliver the nastiest bite I have ever experienced. When I was younger I decided to try to get one to crawl onto my hand. After it crawled onto my hand I realized that I was being rather foolish and tried to get it to leave my personal space bubble. I figured that shaking my hand forcefully would be the quickest and best way to get it off...this technique was not only unsuccessful, it inspired the cowkiller to sting me in the center of the palm. All I can say is that I am glad it didn't tag one of my fingertips because the pain was intense. I learned a valuable lesson that day; they may look silky-soft and pet-able, but the pain isn't worth it.


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## Pumilo

JimO said:


> I was picturing something the size of a raven or something.
> If it's a soldier fly and only about a half inch long, then QRICH should be harassed mercilessly for being a sissy.


Wow Jim! First the PINK springtails, and now you're screaming like a little girl? I'm thinking we should be harassing YOU mercilessly!



JimO said:


> Qrich, you might as well not fight it. Ed is right. In fact, Ed is always right (dang it!).


Ed's not always right. There was that time back in 1974 when he *thought* he was wrong, but turned out to be right after all. So he was wrong about being wrong.



JimO said:


> By the way, meat tenderizer works wonders on some types of stings. The enzymes react with the venom and break it down. Make a paste out of it and put it on each sting.


Jim, did you ever stop to think that you might just be making yourself that much more tender and tasty to the little beasties?


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## Catfur

Never kick a T-Hawk, even accidentally.


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