# mantella behavior



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I would like to ask others out there of their mantellas behavior, what they keep their frogs at (temp, humidity, water features, etc.)

I have heard many mantellas are shy, and my betsileo are very shy. I virtually never see them, but when they were in a critter keeper, the male would be out and about and calling. However, my temperature is always near 78 degrees during the day, sometimes 80-82, definitely the upper limits of lowland mantellas. I have no water features.

I have heard many lowlanders are shy frogs, but they come out more if there is a water feature present and they are kept cool enough? Information is very sketchy on lowlanders like viridis and expectata.

I have subsequently heard that M. madagascarensis is also very shy.


----------



## AJ_Cann (Oct 6, 2004)

After several months of hardly ever seeing my 0.0.5 M.viridis during their "winter" rest, I recently upped the temperature, feeding, and the *humidity* and I'm surprised at how outgoing they have become.
IMHO, humidity is the most important factor in this behavioural change. Another couple of weeks and I'll flood the substrate, keeping everything crossed.


----------



## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

My virdis and baroni beg for food, but I have had them for almost 2 years now. Like any frog, the temps, humidity, and tank design will affect how much you see your frogs. I tend to let my permanent tanks get overgrown since it makes the frogs come out more. Also it may take them a month or two to feel comfortable if you haven't had them for long.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Ahh. Question. How DO I keep humidity at 100%? I can only succeed with 85% in my tinc tank with drip wall, fogger, but i have a large ventilation slot to keep temps down and good circulation. My tinc loves it.

I got a response from Devin, and it could very well be my temperature range, and rather low humid setup...but he says that viridis tend to be shy, as he has viridis. But, Heather, you keep viridis, and now I'm hearing different things, but then again, I'd be interested in your setups more, with pics. 

I've had them for a year. They were infants, no bigger than a tricolor wild caughts. Still remember feeding them only springtails, except Penny, my big female. 

Thanks 

Doug


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Rain_Frog said:


> Ahh. Question. How DO I keep humidity at 100%? I can only succeed with 85% in my tinc tank with drip wall, fogger, but i have a large ventilation slot to keep temps down and good circulation.
> 
> Doug


How are you measuring you're humidity? I've tried a couple of analog meters, and 85 is about as high as they go.
A digital meter is the way to go.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Lol, :lol: I've got cheapo "Kritterz" dial types that you can buy from Petco, the kind you stick on your wall.

So, do you think the humidity is really much higher?


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Yep!
I have some vert tens set up (no critters in them yet) with a 2x10 inch screen section accross the top, no water feature, no fogger, no drip wall, cork + greatstuff background, and I only have to mist (by hand) every other day to keep the humidity in the mid 90's.
I use a bio-naire brand digital moniter, its a big(ish) looking thing, but also records high and low for both humidity and temp...too bad it doesn't have a remote probe. I got it for under thirty bucks at the local hardware store...I'd like to have a few more of them! It really helps (for setting up) to be able to see how high/low the paramaters are.


----------



## Christian (Mar 8, 2004)

*Mantella*

Hi,

My mantella viridis are really less shy for about 3 month...

The change was putting walls in three place in the vivarium...

a water feature thats works... mind never works really good in the past...

misting nozzle... thats is really great...

and a temperature change really bigger.. at nigth 19 to 20 and at 13pm 23 to 24...

The male jump all around and th female make terretory...

The only bad thing is no eggs for the moments...


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

does your virids still hate you?

Flash, Penny, and Autumn sure hate me. :? I promised them a beautiful tank last Fall, but the tank design didn't work out well, so they got dumped in a boring 10 gallon quarantine tank with a bunch of weedy plants. I haven't heard Flash call in nearly a year.


----------



## Christian (Mar 8, 2004)

Yes and no....

They are really active and they are jumping in the terrarium so no they don't hate me... I can take a lot of picture...

Yes.... they don't F/$%.

So...


----------



## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Doug,

Here is what I have noticed with my colony of M. viridis. I had them in a sparsley planted 55 gallon. They hid all the time and were very shy. I then moved them into a 29 gallon with running water. Although they were always hiding, they called the most in this size, and layed a clutch of eggs within 8 weeks of being in it. THen I moved them into a 55 with a water feature as I increased my colony size. For a few weeks they were hiding a lot, but as they grew acustom to it, they were always out, and I could almost always count 7 out of the 8 frogs living in it. THis viv is heavily planted, temps were ranging from 68 at night up to 74 during the day. Now that temps are warming up and I won't have methods too cool my room well until the A/C is going, they have gone back into hiding, and come out when I feed. I still can count 4 out of the 8 at a time usually. So for lowland, they seem to be most active in cooler weather, due to it most resembling their breeding season. I also am a firm believer in heavy vegetation to make a frog more bold. I mean, viridis are the most shy species I have encountered, and to be able to count 7 out of 8 in a viv that size most of the time is remarkable I feel. I haven't done much with betsileo, as my young male I received died shortly after receiving him. I imagine they are very similar to viridis though. Drop me a pm or email if you want to furhter discuss this, Take care of penny and ???(forgot the males name). See ya later,

Ed Parker


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Ed, where did you get your betsileo?

Penny was gravid for a while, but then, well, I noticed one day her belly wasn't so swollen, potentially she expelled it. :? 

Ah. My hunch was right. My temps are WAY too warm, despite betsis are such tough frogs. And, there is no running water.

However, Paul Cimino might be making me a 10 gallon acrylic, where I can install some nice bulkheads and drainage system.  I've got a fogger, so hopefully I can expect Penny to come "into heat again." I think I really do have another female, she's grown huge over the last few months, relative to the male. 

I did not want to deal with drilling glass, and considering my LFS refused to drill a 10 gallon, (also, no insurance and you pay $20 a hole), I think I'll go with acrylic tank or just another 20 gal. I don't have time to take out epoxy, so I've put that on hold.


----------



## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Doug,

I got the betsileo from xtremereptiles a few months ago. He was supposed to be an expectata, but, oh well :roll: . As for the water features, I just have false bottoms in all my tanks, which I run a pump underneath. It is very easy, and you can make waterfalls, and streams, etc. It really is simple. I had my viridis group for over a year in the first 55 gallon without ANY egg production and only a rare call here and there. ONce they got a small stream, they went banana's. Just keep that in mind, if you are intending to breed. Also, I would have a group of atleast 3, 2 males and 1 female  Good luck, 

Ed Parker


----------



## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

Sadly enough my virdis (5) are crammed into a heavily planted 10 gallon with a water bowl and glass canopy. The tank stays fogged up, so I know the humidity is high. They are next to a breeding pair of azureus on my rack. I was going to move them into a bigger tank, but I have gotten so manyother frogs, I haven't gotten around to it. They actually seem quite happy. I hear my males call every night, the females are fat, and they come to the front of the tank all of the time. I'll try to get a picture tonight. 

I think I have the biggest mantellas, I actually had to cut back because one of the females was pot-bellied. Once I get a bigger place, they are going back into their old 30 xtra high tank, which is now occupied by my sub-adult tincs. I have used every inch of available space in my house for frogs, even my bedroom closet has fruitflies and tadpoles, my dresser has a 20 L with auratus, the tincs are in my bedroom, next is my dining room table at the rate I am going. :lol:


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

i have three betsileo in a 10 gallon. I think the whole rule with territory is a bit overrated with mantellas, but I could be wrong, specifically if we talk about aurantiaca. They aren't nearly as active as dart frogs, but you gotta be careful when it comes to waste, as they poop a lot. :shock:


----------



## Christian (Mar 8, 2004)

I have six viridis in a 30 gallons and they terretory is only in the rigth side. They never go in the left portion, only when they see a long ff.

The two know for sure male, don't have a real territorry... they go, they come, they jump... they are not really in the same place each days. I never see them figth... one upon a time one go in a spot in the view of every one put is head up and sing... the other male come see and go away or find a another spot and sing. 

The female, are always in the same area... they have one or two spot... My more big female have two post... They never go in a hiding of a another female. but I never seen a female figth... I thing the more they are bigger and stronger they can Have the best hiding spot.

This is my observation... this is not scientific... cause a lot of you are considering viridis like a shy species but mind are really active...


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

yeah. That would make a LOT of sense why Penny used to guard an area and stay there. Rarely did Autumn venture over there. She is the dominant female. This makes you wonder whether or not it really is a survival strategy, not just "boldness due to toxicity" or something like that. When they were in their old tank, Penny would sit high up on a dumbcane plant (i have no idea how she got up there) right up against the glass. She would stay there, whether I tapped the glass or whatever. Funny thing was, Autumn was hiding in Penny's former spot.


----------



## Christian (Mar 8, 2004)

I thing is the way that you put your decoration in the vivarium that you will see or not the mantella viridis...

They need a lot of shadow place in the day...


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Ed. I think, not 100% yet, but Paul is offering to make me an acrylic 10 gallon with some bulkheads. I really do not have room for a bigger tank, nor do I've got more money, despite Xtremereptiles owes me a mantella because of their guarantee. I hate false bottoms because my pumps always get clogged. :x But they do an excellent job with sexing, not 100% sure fire, but they definitely gave me a pair out of three frogs. Penny was surely a female, Flash, surely a guy. Autumn, well, we don't know still (she hides too much!).

That is because alfredo's wife breeds aurantiaca.


----------



## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

doug, to eliminate your pump getting clogged, make a small filter for it. I usually use the pond filter material, and make a slight encloser out of it. I can't think of what that dang stuff is called, but it is almost like styrofoam, but much larger pores. or even fish tank filter material would work, and make a small pouch for the pump. I make something for the pump in most my vivs though, and I haven't had to tear anything out yet, and some have been flowing for months.

Ed


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I did that for my tinc tank. I wrapped it around my maxi-jet, and I've made a filter out of a mini-jet for my B. orientalis. Overtime, my water flow decreases and I don't get that rushing water sound. :? I've had trouble in the past when the soil gets into the water and eventually things turn into a trickle. While its a big improvement, a sump filter underneath would filter out all the junk before it reaches the pump, keeping the water rushing throughout...

However, I have never made a "box" to house the filter itself, but in such a small tank like a 10 gallon, I find an acrylic tank with an overflow system very inviting, plus the temp stays much more stable with such a large water resevoir underneath...

Ed, how are your laevigata doing?


----------



## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Well Doug, I can't argue that a sump isn't the best way to go, because it definitely is, if you have the time, and the space for it.  I was going to try and plumb my rack of 10 gallon vivs into a communal sump underneat the rack eventually. THe other methods I have used just to get aroudn doing the sump, as it does take a lot more work, and I hate drilling glass. Maybe make us a journal if you do go with the sump, that would be cool, as i Haven't seen anything on them really. I have a bit of experience in sumps now from reef tanks, but none for frogs yet. I wonder if it would even be feasable to raise tads in a sump ????? hmmmmmmmm

anyway, the laevigata's are doing fine, breeding like rabbits. I have 4 morphed froglets, and a lot of tadpoles. They have finally slowed down for the time being, but I am sure they will pick up again soon. Take care of your betsi's ,

Ed Parker


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

that's what I've worked with epoxy so much, a cheaper alternative to getting drilled tanks from a local shop, or buying even more expensive acrylic. 

I have been working on DIY articles when the new Dendroboard library opens. 

But, I just don't have time to make another epoxy tank. I've got one to begin with firebellied toads, as I do not like Duetto or any other internal filters. They just don't create enough water movement and look rather ugly. Plus, more sump water underneath will make water changes a snap, and more room for an algae scubber (filtration with algae).

I would not advise to have a "communal sump" unless it's going down the drain from misting systems. Keep in mind, it will mix all your tank water, so if you have WC viridis water mixing with cb vents, that could be risky.


----------



## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

Finally got around to taking a few pics of my bold M. viridis. Pardon the dirty glass in the second pic, but there are two of mantellas just hanging out in the front. They get really mad if I feed the frogs in the tank next to them first and will sit and beg or try to catch the flies in the other tank through the glass.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

is it me, or you, but I have found that my mantellas like bromelaids better than my darts do. They tend to hide deep within them, and the bromeliads fluorish in much cooler conditions. I killed nearly all my bromelaids except cryptaluthus (earth stars) under my power compacts, I do not understand what happened! Meanwhile, all bromeliads I just tossed bare root in my mantella tank under a strip light grew very well, plus I would have to be careful messing around with them as I often found my male, Flash hiding in them!


----------



## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

I have found that even regular flourescents heat up my tanks more than I like, so I try to run them during the cooler parts of the day like in the morning and evening and limit it to 3-4 hours. I have these 24" dual tube flourescent grow lights that give off alot of heat. Cryptanthus are great, it seems like you can't kill them, even leaving them out and not watering them for months won't kill them.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I have a growlight pink fluorescent bulb over my 10 gallon and it really makes the plants take off. The reason why they are dimmer is because they give off more light that the plants use in form of PAR, and less visible light. Many people forget about that. I read off of planted tank.net that the PAR is WAY higher than a standard cool white bulb, despite it gives off less visible light.

They do look kinda ugly if used alone, but not true if you are simulating dawn and dusk, and the pinkish glow really makes tricolors and my betsileo look better.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Awesome! I received my vivarium cube and it is cool! I already siliconed my coco panel and added some soil! 

Now, I just have to wait until its dry, and I need to mount my 2 x 13 watt bright kit. I have a 65 watt quad, but they give off a ton of heat and not as much light for some reason. (crappy reflector).

I have a bulkhead installed, plus a maxi jet powerhead I'm going to use to run the water feature. I wish great stuff would stick to acrylic. :?


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

alright. All three mantellas are in their tank. I haven't seen any come out. I know they're alive because I lifted up the cocohuts and pissed Penny and the other frog off. I did not see my confirmed male, but he's most likely in there.

The sump thing is awesome. One question for the rest of you. Is it harmful for the sump water to be really dark? I believe the cocochips and coco peat have leached a ton of tannins into the sump water, making it look like coffee or tea. My frogs looked ok, but is that bad for them?

(Then again, the soil has probably more concentration of tannins than the water).

I am thinking about a misting system, as my cube allows for it. Can I still add my misting nozzlewithout making a ton of racket through the little hole on the top?


----------



## Christian (Mar 8, 2004)

For the brown water.... I never realise a tank that the water was not brown... 


I have some of my mantella for 5 years now.... and they were wild cut...


----------



## Guest (May 20, 2005)

*mantella*

85 percent humidity is fine if you need to raise it a little try misting system or spray enclosure a couple times a day.Other than that they will do the rest.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

my vivarium cube was designed for mounting a mistking pump by Marty. I have not bought a misting system yet, but I am wondering if I can mount this nozzle without needing to take the frogs back out of the tank. There's a little hole already drilled in the top for the mist king nozzle.

Anybody else have a vivarium cube with installed misting system? I'd like to see some pics with a mistking pump mounted. 

Thing is though, I got a little concerned about the tannins because it would leave a film of brown gunk on the sump's walls. My frogs sit very close to the water, don't want a bunch of brown film sticking to them! (then again, they are BROWN mantellas!)


----------



## Christian (Mar 8, 2004)

Thing is though, I got a little concerned about the tannins because it would *leave a film of brown gunk on the sump's walls*. My frogs sit very close to the water, don't want a bunch of brown film sticking to them! (then again, they are BROWN mantellas!)


I don't understand what mean gunk??????


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

there was so much tannin in the water, it actually left brownish "stain" that you could rub off with a finger.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Hey, we may be in business!!!  

Its been a month now. I did fix the sump problem, so there is no more rust leaching into the water...

Today is the one year aniversary for my betsileo. Yes, i believe it was yesterday I got them from Xtreme Reptiles.

The waterfall is working wonderfully. When I had a dripwall, nothing was seen. When I converted it more into a waterfall, to where things are swampy now. I also closed the top vent from my vivarium cube, to raise the temp slightly and to increase the humidity. I additionally have misted the tank once or twice a day. The temp is about 72-74 degrees during the day, contrary to 76-82 when they used to be in my room, with a greater temp gradient at night....

I've been seeing Flash, my bronzy male out in the open on several occasions, something I have not witnessed in a year now, since his arrival from Madagascar. He's been right up against the door a few times, in fact, I still find other presence even when I'm not around (poop on pathos near the front door). 

I tried to intimidate him, even bobbed my head up and down and acted like a moron, but he didn't run. Several times, for an hour at a time, he often perches on the cocohut and just sits there, clearly visible.

Today, he was near the front again, but ran away when I made a sudden movement. For a few minutes, I was able to witness his beautiful bronzy color, then he was gone, in a "flash," hence his name. They're pretty unpredictable.

I also was able to recall, hehe, "Thurston" hiding under a plant near the back. He is an incredibly shy frog, but that was a first when i could actually see him, even when he was trying to hide.

It still is difficult to find my big, red backed female, Penny. But, like most female mantellas, it seems that they guard a spot near the water where they can lay the eggs.

Anybody notice this? Are mantellas somewhat nocturnal? I've witnessed additionally my mantellas can clearly be seen running around in dim light of the morning, before the compact fluorescents go on. I have even had my frogs vocalize at midnight, exactly before! :shock: 

No calling yet though. At least, not that I'm aware of. But at the rate I'm seeing Flash now, and if only Thurston would gain a little more confidence, my frogs look like they could breed in the near future, if I hear calling. 

Oh yeah, Clarence has done a good job on the eggs so far. I witnessed a tricolor tadpole "wiggle" inside the egg today...


----------

