# Plant quarantine/dealing with pests



## flynmnky (Nov 13, 2012)

Getting ready to build a heavily planted 75 g viv. Used to keep reef tanks and am super worries about pests and parasites. I'm wondering how you sanitize\quarantine plants before you add tem to your display? Thanks.


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

You can do a 10% bleach dip for 10 min on most plants safely. On bromeliads I add a little dish soap to the bleach solution. I have read that if there is any scale hidden this can help get rid of it. Just make sure you give them a good soak in just plain water before the bleach dip that way they are completely hydrated and shouldn't absorb the bleach. Then make sure to give them a good rinse.

-Josh


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here's another method to use...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/57367-building-using-co2-generator.html

I recommend doing the bleach treatment for all new plants _and_ setting up for CO2 as well.


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

if you follow the bleach procedure you shouldn't have too many problems. vivariums tend not to get infested too much anyway. Even people who don't clean and sterilize everything (me before I was a member on the board) usually don't encounter too many problems.


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## flynmnky (Nov 13, 2012)

Good to know... So I have seem about seventeen different bleach procedures... . What percentage would you recommend?


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## flynmnky (Nov 13, 2012)

Oops! Sorry didn't see the post above before I replied!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

ICS523 said:


> if you follow the bleach procedure you shouldn't have too many problems. vivariums tend not to get infested too much anyway. Even people who don't clean and sterilize everything (me before I was a member on the board) usually don't encounter too many problems.


I have seen pretty bad plant pest infestations in vivs before, especially with scale and mealybugs. 

The bleach treatment will kill some bugs and it is important for preventing livestock diseases, but I have seen certain plant pests, especially scale, live through it.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

I use a method that was recommended to me by a JMU horticulture professore that takes care of many greenhouses and the arboretum.

Make a bucket of lukewarm water with about a tablespoon of Joy uncented dishwashing detergent. Do not use any of the fragrances or anitbacterial, just plain JOY.

Make another bucket of cold water with about 3 cups of bleach, this makes a .5% solution.

Wash the plants in the mild soap, then rinse well. Soak in the bleach for about 10 min, rinse again and put the plants into some clean water to soak for an hour to hydrate.

Allow to air dry before placing in the tank and they should be bug/snail free.


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## flynmnky (Nov 13, 2012)

Can I use well water for rinse/soaks??


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Im sure you could. He just said that warm soapy water washes off the plants better and warm water will boil the chlorine out faster.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

JaredJ said:


> Im sure you could. He just said that warm soapy water washes off the plants better and warm water will* boil* the chlorine out faster.


Not sure you meant to say boil. You do not want to cook your plants with water that hot. What temperature you estimate the warm water to be?


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

No, I meant that the cold water retains the chlorine in the bleach longer. Warm or hot water tends to make the chlorine dissapate out of the water faster.

I had a lady at the health dept say the same thing. Our sanitizer water was supposed to be cool because the sanitizer is chlorine based. She would go around and check sanitizer buckets that have been sitting out with pH strips and none of the strips would change color because they were 2-3 hours old and the chlorine was all gone.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JaredJ said:


> No, I meant that the cold water retains the chlorine in the bleach longer. Warm or hot water tends to make the chlorine dissapate out of the water faster.
> 
> I had a lady at the health dept say the same thing. Our sanitizer water was supposed to be cool because the sanitizer is chlorine based. She would go around and check sanitizer buckets that have been sitting out with pH strips and none of the strips would change color because they were 2-3 hours old and the chlorine was all gone.


Then your health department lady didn't understand it either.... The effectiveness of bleach actually increases as the the temperature increases until just before the boiling point of water it is released as chlorine gas (which is not only not healthy for you, but not a good thing for anything that can corrode in the same area). The reason you don't want to use bleach in hot water is because the heat enables the bleach to me more reactive (corrosive) which means it has a much greater chance of damaging materials, tissues and becomes more irritating.... When using it to sanitize food service equipment, the pH should be between 5-6 and the temperature should be between 105-120 F..... 
For a classic summation of it, see http://www.ag.auburn.edu/poul/virtuallibrary/pdf/mckeeeffectivechlorine.pdf 

I should also note, that organic residues and some chemicals added to tap water also can reduce the effectiveness of bleach as a sanitizer... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Well ill have to call the health dept and tell them they are wrong. They keep telling us on every visit that the sanitizer has to be in cold tapwater. I wonder what she will say when i tell her that ed said she's wrong? Ill let the professor know too, thanks for the info. Hopefully it sets them straight.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

First off Jared... if you bothered to read the link provided, you would see that contrary to your belief, it isn't my position... it is the established chemistry and sanitization practice for bleach in food prep.... 

Second, you are attempting to invoke "authority" to dismiss or diminish the point in a manner which doesn't quite cut it for "proof" particularly when we look at your history of comments on a number of topics.... 

Third, your attempting to change the topic (again) to try and get away from your errors.... nothing in my response deals with your "professor's methods"... You made incorrect statements about bleach, I corrected them and as a response you got pissy and responded instead of checking your "facts"..... 

Fourth... Did it ever occur to you, that the professor uses "cold" water because it is less damaging to the plant tissues than hot water and the fact that the bleach is going to damage less of the plant tissue when it is diluted in cold water? He/She/It is trading off effectiveness of the bleach for reduced plant damage.... 

Fifth.... Not all chlorine sanitizers have the same temperature usages.. you have equated some random sanitizer supposedly used in some food prep somewhere with bleach... This is another example of where fact checking would be a useful practice before engaging people with incorrect information.... 

Sixth... If you don't like being called out for bad information or misstatements double check your facts before you begin typing. It is what little is left of your reputation on here that is at stake. 


Some comments.

Ed


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## Turningdoc (May 24, 2012)

Gotta go with Ed on this one. Ed, perhaps a less assertive education would lead to more acceptance.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Ed said:


> First off Jared... if you bothered to read the link provided, you would see that contrary to your belief, it isn't my position... it is the established chemistry and sanitization practice for bleach in food prep....
> 
> Second, you are attempting to invoke "authority" to dismiss or diminish the point in a manner which doesn't quite cut it for "proof" particularly when we look at your history of comments on a number of topics....
> 
> ...


Ed, i love how you try to engage in arguements and accuse people of changing subjects. You definitely have too much time on your hands. Since we were on the topic of chlorine leaving water, which i have no idea how thats changing subjects, i mentioned what we were told by a health official. 

I apologize for not posting her links but all she gives us are info sheets she gets from her office that show the chlorine based sanitizers should be used between 55 and 75 degrees, and should be changed every 2 hours because they become useless after that. If i remember i will grab a sheet next time im at the restaurant and scan it in for you to browse. The sanitizers we use are very similar to bleach but are supposedly more foodsafe.

As far as the professor goes, those were his suggestions and i am only saying that when i see them next i will inform them that they are wrong. I plan to ask the health inspector why she continually tells us to use cold water when she is obviously mistaken and i will provide her with the given link so she can correct her misinformation.

In any case, sanitizing our plants is definitely good practice to stop the spread of snails or other nasty hitch hikers.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Turningdoc said:


> Gotta go with Ed on this one. Ed, perhaps a less assertive education would lead to more acceptance.


Except some people refuse any and all suggestions regardless of how they are phrased... 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JaredJ said:


> No, I meant that the cold water retains the chlorine in the bleach longer. Warm or hot water tends to make the chlorine dissapate out of the water faster.





JaredJ said:


> Our sanitizer water was supposed to be cool because the sanitizer is chlorine based.





JaredJ said:


> Ed, i love how you try to engage in arguements and accuse people of changing subjects. You definitely have too much time on your hands. Since we were on the topic of chlorine leaving water, which i have no idea how thats changing subjects, i mentioned what we were told by a health official.


Okay Jared, we can clearly see in your above quotes that you compared some undefined sanitizer with bleach...so your attempt to claim we were only discussing chlorine is in fact incorrect at best and a flat out lie at worst. So I'm not the one attempting to change the topic. You can't even keep your claims straight within a couple of posts. 

Second, once again, you have ignored conflicting documentation which oddly enough is research on disinfecting food equipment to which you were equating dipping the plants.... I didn't compare sanitizing food service equipment with dipping plants as an attempt to support your argument, you did... and when there is a conflict from the comparision you attempt to divert from the fact of supplying bad information by invoking some random authorities... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## chuck norris (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm new and trying to prepare some plants also.

I kind of got a little lost in all this jibber jabber.

Do we have a verdict or differing opinions and methods? It appears that their are many different acceptable methods?


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

chuck norris said:


> Do we have a verdict or differing opinions and methods? It appears that their are many different acceptable methods?


No, just Ed's opinion. 

In the end, just do what you think is best. You are going to get a TON of opinions and you know what they say about opinions.

I've had no plants die with the method I was told to use and I don't seem to have an hitch-hikers either so it seems to work for me regardless.

Good luck.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

chuck norris said:


> Do we have a verdict or differing opinions and methods? It appears that their are many different acceptable methods?


If you know the limitations, then yes there is a consensus that is actually supported by science... 

You can do a bleach dip for the plants to help reduce the chances of unwanted things coming in with the plants but should keep in mind that pests that can hide (such as terrestrial snails retracting into thier shell, some hard scales, and some nemerteans which can form resting phase cocoons) can resist contact with bleach. In addition, plants that have areas that shield sections from contact (like the water holding areas of bromeliads that are protected by tightly overlapping leaves). Some of these areas can actually have small openings that prevent water from being able to penetrate. In addition, plants with hairy leaves or stems can also protect organisms since these portions tend to hold air preventing contact with the bleach solution. 
Addition of a surfactent (like dish soap) will reduce the ability to these areas to prevent contact but it still won't permit the sanitization of tight areas since it may not reduce the surface tension and can also remove oils that protect the leaves of the plants from some of the damage. As a further consideration, most detergents leave a residue that can also be irritating to amphibians so the recommendation is to avoid when possible. Now if are willing to keep the plants humid and wait at least a couple of weeks, microbes will recolonize the surface of the plants and will breakdown the surfactents. 

As noted by others above, gently wash the plant and remove alll dirt or other materials stuck to the plant. Soak the plant for at least several hours before attempting to dip the plants. Do not use more than a ten percent solution. Use cool water to prevent excessive damage to the plants (due to uptake of solution, as well as reducing the ability of the bleach to damage the plants), rinse the plant heavily, and if possible soak it in a dechlorinator to reduce contact damage from bleach that may still be present. Rinse again before planting. Keep in mind that there can also be significant differences in tolerance to bleach but by gently washing and presoaking it can reduce the damage to it. 
If you used a detergent you may want to consider keeping the plant from amphibian contact for a couple of weeks. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Turningdoc (May 24, 2012)

Very constructive Ed. See that didn't hurt did it. I would add to expect some plant shock with many specimens. They will often appear wilted or even slightly burned the next day. Just be patient, they will recover and grow like mad once in viv for a few weeks.


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