# IQUITOS vs BLACKWATER



## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Are there really THAT many(if any) differences between these two Ventrimaculata? I hear something about orange striping but every picture I see looks very very close! It seems they're both Understory line. And perhaps Blackwaters are a little more rare?

Your comments please! Thanks...



Alex


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't think there is that big a differance in color both have a lot of red and orange, Blackwater seems to have the black spotting as opposed to vertical lines....Plus the local of each is differant.....I was really interested in those 2 as well, very beautiful frogs....Don't think you could go worng with either.....I contacted Understories about the Iquitos and they have none ready for fall shipment and delivery....They will have Blackwaters that will be ready for fall shipment but went with a differant frog in the end.....Good price too on the Black waters.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

This is from the TMP on ventrimaculata that I am working on.

Also blackwaters seem to be more difficult to breed as were the Iquitos breed like rabbits.

The blackwaters as have thicker black striping.

• The Blackwater population was imported by Mark Pepper of Understory Enterprises. This population is from a small blackwater tributary of the Rio Tigre. Their differentiating physical characteristics are wider orange striping, often with a transition to yellow towards the lateral regions. They can be found living in sympatry with reticulates. This population as mentioned before exists in the Rio Tigre region, well removed from Iquitos populations, which clearly indicates they are truly two separate populations.

• The Iquitos Red-Orange population was imported by Mark Pepper of Understory Enterprises. This population is widespread throughout the Amazon basin, particularly from the lowland rainforest regions near Iquitos, Peru. Their color is a contrast of red - orange, on black, with turquoise legs. They are also one of the larger ventrimaculata populations.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

I wonder if Iquitos are bigger than Blackwater then? Any confirmations on this?? Does anyone have comparative pictures of the two by any chance?(with proof of a difference)


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

ggazonas said:


> This is from the TMP on ventrimaculata that I am working on.
> 
> Also blackwaters seem to be more difficult to breed as were the Iquitos breed like rabbits.


Tell that to my Iquitos vents- they are very frustrating in that they are very inconsistant breeders for me. I'm getting a couple more to hopefully help with this though.
They are separate populations, it is interesting how similar they look though. I love my iquitos vents, by far one of my most colorful frogs, they would be my favorite if they would give me a clutch of eggs though!
Bryan


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Also, how is the boldness factor with each? Curious...


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Iquitos are by far larger, I believe one of the larger morphs...and I believ they are also bolder...can't speak for the blackwaters since I never kept them but from what I have been told by others they are pretty shy.

My Iquitos can be seen in the morning, at feeding, misting and the evening, and occasionaly during the day, they aren't too skittish and if they are breeding they are evn more active.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

I too have not kept blackwaters so I can't compare directly, but my Iquitos area larger frog and they are actually pretty bold now. It's taken almost three years, but they finally do not disappear immediately when I come close to the tank. They used to be pretty shy, especially them male, but now they are bold and active, I can see all three of mine at least three times a day. They are especially active in the morning. I think mine are always out and together because for the last month, they always exhibit breeding behavior almost daily (but no eggs.) It's pretty entertaining (but frustrating at the same time) that when i mist and play recorded calls my male used to call and go into the film cans with the females. Now he completely ignores the females, but comes up to the front glass and climbs frantically along the top of the tank searching for a crack to escape and find the other male (my laptop.) A few days ago he actually climbed completely upside down on the lid for about 10 minutes like a gecko before jumping down and doing a backflip in mid air to land on a nearby brom leaf. That was cool.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Now we just need some input from those that keep the Blackwaters  if it is indeed size that is the main physical difference, then I can deal with that!


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

If you put them side by side you will see the black marking are thicker on the blackwaters and they have less transition from red to orange to yellow, plus blackwaters are a richer red color.

It is more than size....many of these frogs only have subtle differences, but the longer you keep pdf's the more easily its is seen, or at least by some.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Would you say that the Blackwaters are rarer(one of the rarest morphs even) of the Ventrimaculatas? The only line out there is Understory's, yes?


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

UE having the only line of blackwaters does not make them rarer, but yes they have the only line thankfully.

blackwaters are rarer and quite difficult to breed as far as vents go. they are also smaller and shyer as has been said. mine have been transporting but no froglets so far.

if you have some experience with ranitomeya, then try blackwaters. if your new to them, then go for the iquitos.


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

There aren't many photos of these going around so this may help people. 

These are all Blackwater race (Understory). This one is from Brian's Tropicals:










These 2 are from Josh's Frogs / Zach Brinks:



















As you can see, they are quite variable in the amount of black markings. The other one I have from Brian (I didn't photograph it because it was hiding pretty well) has much wider black markings, and consequently much narrow orange/red markings.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

by the way the ones from Josh Frogs were some that i sold him that came from Understory


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Thanks Julio.


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