# terribilis: mixing with other species of any animals? Ponds?



## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

I am going to start my living room display very soon and am brainstorming the design of the tank. I will be making a nice build journal btw so stay posted!! 4x3x2 180gal tank!
I will have 4x orange black foot, 3x mint and 2 yellow in there! Rest assured, no offspring will be kept. But then again, rest assured, those black foot are gonna get into a breeding tank if I ever see em going around with tadpoles haha! 

Please do not pollute my thread with flaming! I have been in this hobby for a while, I've tried several things, some worked, some didn't and I am fully able to monitor real well my animals. I won't even go on with why and how I know what I am doing as this is unimportant but to all you newbies reading this, just understand that I have several years or experience, and I have been running an exotic pet refuge for 5 years now. I wouldn't advise anyone to try any of what is going to be said in this thread, because it has absolutely no "pros" other than for our own eyes.

BUT
If you wanna share your EXPERIENCES, or KNOWLEDGE, well this is exactly why I created that thread so please share the wealth! I think we all know now, that it is actually possible, specially with such big tank and experienced keeper to have mixing done without "cons" either! Obviously it gets harder when something happens but I'll remind you I am running an exotic pet refuge... I have several empty vivarium ready at all times and will actually be keeping the vivariums that the frogs are currently in, empty just in case, because as of now, they're separated.

Terribilis and auratus? Auratus are very shy... most of the time hiding...while the terribs would be in the open but I am worried they might not even come out anymore because of the high activity of the terribs. Anyone ever tryed that combo?

Terribs and small arboreal lizards? diurnal or nocturnal?

What about terribs and a pond where I could have some killifishes or maybe danios or any other cheap tough fishes? If I am going to do fishes, the tank will have a big sump btw.
Are terribs known to stupidly drown? Would they be able to get out with plants/branches accross the water?

Terribs and treefrogs? If I can find small/med sized treefrogs that won't mess the glass, and stay in the foliage/branches, that could be quite interesting too!

Any other ideas?

Anyways, waiting for you guys reply because like I said, still am in the brainstorming process.

On that, I will go start making a small video as an intro to my journal!

Thanks in advance for your advice/expertise!


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## MrBiggs (Oct 3, 2006)

FwoGiZ said:


> Terribs and small arboreal lizards? diurnal or nocturnal?


I have a 120g tank that houses four O. Terribilis as well as one mourning gecko (Lepidodactylus lugubris). They don't occupy the same space whatsoever and the gecko is primarily nocturnal. Have never had an issue and both species are living happily together.


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Mourning gecko.. I will have to check these guys out! Look interesting.

What do you think of electric blue gecko?


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## MrBiggs (Oct 3, 2006)

FwoGiZ said:


> Mourning gecko.. I will have to check these guys out! Look interesting.
> 
> What do you think of electric blue gecko?


I have no experience with any other species of gecko.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Please read and understand this thread in its entirety: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/3449-mixing-multispecies-exhibits.html

If you are still thinking about mixing species, make sure you understand both of them very well and stick with species that would be sympatric.


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## MrBiggs (Oct 3, 2006)

JPccusa said:


> Please read and understand this thread in its entirety: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/3449-mixing-multispecies-exhibits.html
> 
> If you are still thinking about mixing species, make sure you understand both of them very well and stick with species that would be sympatric.


That is just one part of a much more comprehensive resource. I'd recommend referencing this thread instead: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/173258-multispecies-reference-page.html


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## MarkB (May 23, 2012)

He's a self proclaimed expert. Providing links to this guy seems like it will fall on deaf ears


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## MrBiggs (Oct 3, 2006)

MarkB said:


> He's a self proclaimed expert. Providing links to this guy seems like it will fall on deaf ears


Providing relevant information seems like a better alternative than simply insulting him. Different strokes.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

In either case the relevant information must be supplied, even if the OP chooses to ignore it. This is a public forum with other people reading. Perhaps others will see the light and understand the dangers like the possible creation of a Novel Pathogen. Yes, I'm aware you don't capitalize "novel pathogen". I chose to anyway, because it is the important phrase that others can choose to research more if they desire.


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Not sure if I actually went thru Biggs one, which seems to be an updated form of the Ed's 2004 one but I might very well have. It's nice that there are examples of what I am actually looking for so I guess I'll go thru it again.

Thanks for the references, I understand they are important for whoever will read this thread, which is why I state in the OP " I wouldn't advise anyone to try any of what is going to be said in this thread, because it has absolutely no "pros" other than for our own eyes."

thanks to those providing the data I am looking for. I am sure there is a lot more out there! Please bring it on!


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## MrBiggs (Oct 3, 2006)

FwoGiZ said:


> Not sure if I actually went thru Biggs one, which seems to be an updated form of the Ed's 2004 one but I might very well have. It's nice that there are examples of what I am actually looking for so I guess I'll go thru it again.


The link I provided is a HUGE compilation of dozens of threads, comments, examples, etc. It was originally compiled in 2011 and made available sometime towards the end of that year if I recall correctly. It should have all the information a person could possibly need before considering a multispecies enclosure.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

My biggest concern here is that you are mixing terrib morphs, why not just mix frogs that will not interbreed? 
Plus I am surprised that no one has mentioned this....
While you are researching the links to mixed vivs there are not any mixing of morphs.
With all of your "experience" I hope you will rethink your mixing endeavor.


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## PDFanatic (Mar 3, 2007)

I can't believe you are going to waste such a rare beautiful morph..the black foot should be given a chance to breed first IMO. Then put them in this mess after you have exhausted all trials of breeding. But they're your animals not mine. Good luck...


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Well since I can't edit my OP and mods will delete my replies to people polluting the thread, I'll just state here that I will just ignore from now on any posts that are not constructive or helpful such as all of those being all mad n sad about the whole mixing thing... re-read the OP and don't waste your time please.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Don't consider advices that you don't agree with to be "pollution." 

Address them in a civil manner (reads "don't violate the User Agreement"), or simply ignore them, and I won't need to edit your posts. 

This is a public forum. You can't control who says what on a thread that you started.


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## dsaundry (Sep 29, 2011)

Tree frogs imo should not be mixed with any dart frog species. I was talking a person who takes care of the dart frogs etc at the Stanley Park Zoo and he was telling me that when the tree frogs stress out, they get a secretion on their skin that will actually burn the dart frogs skin. I personally wouldn't want to risk that. As for lizards, I house my Gold Mantella's with Phelsuma Klemmeri and have had no issues at all. The Stanley Park Zoo does have a mixed dart frog tank and there does not appear to be any mixed species breeding from what I saw.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I don't know why your friend singled out treefrogs but pretty much any anuran can secrete potentially toxic skin secretions. This is often put out there as a potential reason for a tank meltdown but it should be heavily questioned as to it's real risk. 

Typically this argument is based either on hearsay or the fact that some anurans are known to be toxic to other anurans (like the pickerel frog for example). 

For something like this to kill other cage mates it has to come into contact with them... A dying frog doesn't typically go around rubbing up against other frogs before death... Or it has to be passed around via some environmental factor like a water pump. Filtration with fresh charcoal will often remove these things. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I spent a little bit of time trying to track down a youtube clip that showed a terribilis capturing and eating a small gecko but sadly wasn't able to locate it. 

The problem with terribilis is that virtually all of the species that are known to be found with it are not available to the pet trade. This is due to the fact that Colombia doesn't export much in the way of it's wildlife. As a result attempting to setup a functioning multispecies enclosure with terribilis is very very difficult to accomplish. 

Is there any chance you would be willing to use a different species where the options are much better? 

Some comments 

Ed


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I seem to remember somebody on here had Dendropsophus ebraccatus with their terribilis in a Colombian biotope.


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Ed said:


> I spent a little bit of time trying to track down a youtube clip that showed a terribilis capturing and eating a small gecko but sadly wasn't able to locate it.
> 
> The problem with terribilis is that virtually all of the species that are known to be found with it are not available to the pet trade. This is due to the fact that Colombia doesn't export much in the way of it's wildlife. As a result attempting to setup a functioning multispecies enclosure with terribilis is very very difficult to accomplish.
> 
> ...


Is it in my understanding that you would simply just never consider something that isn't from the same locality because of risks of novel pathogens?
In any case, I have limited experience with geckos in general, but I wouldn't mind getting my hands on any of the *dactylus sp if even avail in the pet trade, then get used to em before eventually moving em into the big tank along with the frogs. That would definitely be my best bet, I totally understand that. 
But flame me all you want, I am not excluding other animals such as fishes and non-local geckos, or maybe even some treefrogs who knows. I am brainstorming and collecting info right now, weighting pros and cons, what's possible, what's not, what's too risky, what's not.


The one sure thing, is this tank is going to have terribs in it simply because that's been the plan for over a decade!!  They're just my fav frog ever since I could read and it took me a while to gather all 3 colors. I am not saying that this won't end up with just terribs in there btw... I understand that this is what 95% of you guys here would like to hear, but I'll reiterate my point again, I wanna hear the 5% that took "risks" and succeeded.

Anyone ever tried electric blue geckos with terribs? What do you think? 
Pros: good size(?), stays up in the tank, diurnal, avail.
Cons: transmit disease that frog isn't used to, I wouldn't think that they'd stress terribs out since they move a lot but maybe?


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## Dr Christopher McHale (Apr 3, 2014)

There is a board member that keeps Lygodactylus williamsi with terribllis, they are actually selling them on the classifieds on here at the moment.

Perhaps sending that person a PM will work or getting them to talk of their specific experience here?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

FwoGiZ said:


> Is it in my understanding that you would simply just never consider something that isn't from the same locality because of risks of novel pathogens?


That is the best option. As time goes on we are seeing more and more of these novel pathogen issues popping up across multiple taxa. The more we can prevent these issues from taking hold, the better not only the captive community animals will do long-term but the less risk there is to the wild populations. 




FwoGiZ said:


> In any case, I have limited experience with geckos in general, but I wouldn't mind getting my hands on any of the *dactylus sp if even avail in the pet trade, then get used to em before eventually moving em into the big tank along with the frogs. That would definitely be my best bet, I totally understand that.


When you say "dactylus" sp. are you referring to Sphaerodactylus? I'm asking because there are a number of gecko genera with "dactylus" in their name such as Lepidodactylus or Pseudothecadactylus or Stenodactylus or Lygodactylus...... Using 'dactylus doesn't do anything to help anyone answer the question as it's very very vague when talking about geckos. 

If you are referring to Lygodactylus or Sphaerodactylus, this is why I was looking for the video clip. An adult terribilis was shown to consume a gecko of that approximate size. If your willing to feed a $100 plus gecko to your frogs as enrichment, then that is your choice. 



FwoGiZ said:


> But flame me all you want, I am not excluding other animals such as fishes and non-local geckos, or maybe even some treefrogs who knows. I am brainstorming and collecting info right now, weighting pros and cons, what's possible, what's not, what's too risky, what's not.


Are you asking me to flame you or are you accusing my previous post of flaming you? If that is your attitude when I'm pointing out potential real risks then I'm not sure that I should give you more options/suggestions. I posted that information on mixing/multispecies thread based on a fairly long career of making mixed species exhibits work so if my comments are unwanted, then I will take my ball and go home. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

I find it incredibly ironic that people who constantly engage in these type of debates accuse everyone else of "flaming" them simply for providing information. You are asking for information about a topic that you know people don't like. They don't like it because of the implications it has on more than just your own little tank. That is why they are still commenting despite you attempting to command them not to.

This is the internet. It is an open forum. People are allowed to contribute information if they want to. You can't decide who posts on your thread and who doesn't based on the fact that you don't like the information they are giving you. If it is good information and abides by the user agreement, it is allowed. 

*If you want this conversation to continue... put down the pitch forks. I'm directing that at both sides. Some of you have played nicely, some of you haven't. Keep it civil going forward or this conversation will get shut down and you won't get any information at all. Any personal attacks will result in infractions.*


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

epiphytes etc. said:


> I seem to remember somebody on here had Dendropsophus ebraccatus with their terribilis in a Colombian biotope.


I know a lot of treefrogs end up messing up glass but I have a feeling that with enough branches, proper foliage and hide spots/perch spots, most of them tend to stay away from the glasses since they're happy and secure in their lil tree. Anyone else feel this way? 
I really like those hourglass treefrogs... always liked reed frogs and similar. I had spring peepers for over 5 years! Hourglass often come in the hobby as WC tho right? I will have to look into this because it might be very very interesting and there would probably be no stress issues here.



Ed said:


> When you say "dactylus" sp. are you referring to Sphaerodactylus? I'm asking because there are a number of gecko genera with "dactylus" in their name such as Lepidodactylus or Pseudothecadactylus or Stenodactylus or Lygodactylus...... Using 'dactylus doesn't do anything to help anyone answer the question as it's very very vague when talking about geckos.
> 
> If you are referring to Lygodactylus or Sphaerodactylus, this is why I was looking for the video clip. An adult terribilis was shown to consume a gecko of that approximate size. If your willing to feed a $100 plus gecko to your frogs as enrichment, then that is your choice.


Yes, I was referring to any of the ***dactylus species of gecko that would be a good size. There are a lot of geckos in Colombia and I don't know all of them but there ought to be some that are not too big, not too small... I am aware that both of these animals are voracious and will eat anything too small but damn... a terrib eating a gecko? Thatt's crazy stuff right there! I would really like to see that video just for fun but I do beleive it... I think we all "pushed" our luck by trying to feed bigger stuff to our terrib, up to a point the frog will try real hard for a while then abandon ahah!




Ed said:


> Are you asking me to flame you or are you accusing my previous post of flaming you? If that is your attitude when I'm pointing out potential real risks then I'm not sure that I should give you more options/suggestions. I posted that information on mixing/multispecies thread based on a fairly long career of making mixed species exhibits work so if my comments are unwanted, then I will take my ball and go home.


Sorry, that was not directed specifically to you, but the board in general. It is a well known fact it is hard to speak of such things without having the 1 or 2 bad useless posts and I was merely stating that I don't care; I am here to do my homeworks for the sake of those future animals and it is a challenge, I understand that. Your input is actually greatly appreciated, and I thank you for that.


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