# 40 Breeder Vertical Tank questions



## Bowser (Jul 4, 2011)

New member here!  So excuse me if there is some place where i can find this information, I did a quick search but didn't find anything. I was sent here because I wanted to get some ideas on how to setup a 40 breeder i found on craigslist for free 

I've been keeping fish for about a year now and when I snagged this tank I thought it would hold water but it ended up having a small leak in the bottom left hand corner. Instead of trying to fix it, I thought I'd turn it into a vertical tank setup like how i've seen on youtube for a frog or crested gecko ( still having a hard time deciding on which to get ) the leaking corner would go to the top of the tank so i don't think i would have to worry about it.

Now the problem comes up. I have NO experience doing this. I've seen some pictures and noticed people use computer fans in their setups. I'd like to ask why and how they are powered haha. Does anyone have pictures on how to properly make this tank suitable to be put vertical? How would I go about making the glass "door" everywhere i look no one really goes into detail about making it vertical. 

Just pretend ( well not really pretend ) that you're explaining to a complete idiot on how to do this haha. I'd rather read alot about how to do this, and do it right, then do a janky job on it and find out that i used a toxic material, or that it doesnt work how i plan it to. 

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Part two!
I want live plants in this setup, but i've never really dealt with plants that arent underwater 
What lighting would you recommend for someone who wants to put the light on top of the vertical tank (it'd be the side of the 40 breeder xD )? Preferably nothing that gives off too much heat. Since if i decide on going with crested geckos they don't need the extra heat. And i also don't want the heat to damage the glass or melt the silicone :S

Thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully someone can help me!
If you have any questions that need answering from me feel free to ask.


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## EvilLost (Jan 10, 2011)

Well, to be honest it is pretty complicated. Not that it is difficult, but many of the steps are "DIY" in the truest sense, you can do it however you ...can do it!

Let me also preface my answers with this: it all depends. you need to pick your animal first then build the tank; each animal will have slightly different water, temperature, plant, etc needs. 

Also, although the specifics often help, many users don't necessarily mention the exact how-to because you need to have some basic skill in several areas (for the fans and lighting, you usually need to do basic electrical work; for the pumps and water features you do basic plumbing, etc). Most of the work is very basic, so it is assumed that you either know it or can look it up in an introductory plumbing/whatever book. Although I think more and more users are starting to make fantastic how-to's for people with absolutely no experience.

If you are looking for an "exact" step-by-step that tells you what type and size of screw to buy, etc, you are in the wrong hobby  

But to answer your questions:

-Computer fans are used to circulate the air. In PDF enclosures, the humidity is 90%+ oftentimes...air circulation helps both prevent fogging of the glass as well as maintaining fresh air in the tanks for the frogs (also helps slow down mold as a result). If you are building a desert environment for example, you probably do not need the computer fans (esp because in those environments you need to build lots of extra vents for the heat to escape so the air circulates more naturally).

If you want a pretty good "how to" on computer fans, look up the "PENINSULA" thread by GRIMM on these boards. It's a long thread but somewhere in there he posted a great video.

-In order to make the tank vertical you can buy pre-made vert kits from some sponsors, but I do not believe anybody makes one for a 40 breeder (I'm not sure on that). You can always do it yourself as well, but given your experience level I would *HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DO NOT DRILL GLASS*. It is worth the extra money to pay a glass shop to drill it for you. You can obtain acrylic hinges (really any hinge that won't rust or otherwise be damaged over time is fine) and just attach the hinge to the glass that you have cut/drilled at a glass store to your specs and attach it to your frame.
Don't forget to also install some vents though!


-As for lighting, I don't know the dimensions of your tank and again it depends on your animals (you noticed this in your question). Many people use standard tube lights (4' ones are easily available at home depot, but for most projects I need 2' ones which can be found at any industrial light supplier). On the other hand you can also use a light strip with CFLs....again you can make this yourself by buying light sockets and wiring them together and mounting it into a hood....or you can buy some of the zoomed or whatever plastic fixtures which I find insanely overpriced. Depends how comfortable you are with electrical work I guess.

For bulbs themselves I prefer 6500K ("daylight") bulbs but I would avoid getting higher than 6500K (those 10000K bulbs for aquariums will be a bit strong imo). Also, I would genearlly not get anything lower than 5000K or you will see little growth (I just always use 6500K)

In either case, they both put out some heat but it isn't too much, especially if you have ventilation going. 



Really though, decide the animal first, then build the tank. Don't do it the other way around or your tank will be slightly lacking for both species.


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## Bowser (Jul 4, 2011)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sponsor-classifieds/63488-40-gal-vert-kit-aaafrogs-com.html

I found this.

would i need a fan with this? or would it have enough ventilation to not fog and cause mold?


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

The fan is not as much about ventilation as it is air movement. Too much outside air can make it difficult to keep the humidity levels up. The fan move the air around within the vivarium...no moving outside air into. If that makes sense.


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

> would i need a fan with this? or would it have enough ventilation to not fog and cause mold?


you can pretty much guarantee it will fog up and mold, but if you have springtails going, the mold disappears in no time...


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

I've built two 40g verts and they are doing fine. I went with the sliding glass doors from Junglebox and I love them.

I have crested geckos as well, along with 3 gargoyles and two leachies and a 40g IMO is way too big for a crested. A 12x12x18 Exo terra sized tank is perfect for a crested and maybe the next size up for a m/f pair. They really don't need all that room.

Plants can just come from HD or a local nursery and some broms thrown in. If you do start a 40g vert, you will definitely have fun with it. It's a great looking tank when its done.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/57143-40b-vert-finally-new-vivarium.html

Thought I'd share my thread of the 40b vert.


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## Bowser (Jul 4, 2011)

Alright, so after reading about the vertical kit, i noticed that my tank is considered a reptile tank since it has a sliding screen top, so i don't think the AAA vert kit will work with the tank since it's different in construction, i may be wrong.

Now that someone says that 40 gallons is way too big for cresteds i want to build a vivarium for some dart frogs. 

I'm going to repair the silicone job on the tank and make the silicone a little bit thicker so there's no leak. 

Should i just remove the screen top and place a glass lid on top of the tank to provide better humidity? 

Or is tank not suitable for housing dart frogs? Again, it's a reptile 40 breeder with the sliding screen top built into it.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Those reptile tanks tend to be made from very thin glass and in my opinion are pretty flimsy. 

If you want to use it for dendrobatids, you should figure out how to prevent all of the fruit flies or other feeders from excaping from the tank. If I remember correctly those tanks are difficult to render fruit fly proof. 

Ed


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## dravenxavier (Mar 12, 2008)

Too big? I think not. Besides, those can make great vert cages. Just silicone in a piece of glass on the bottom part to hold in bedding. Here's one I had set up for a lone female Uroplatus.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Uroplatus need a big tank. They don't do well in tight spaces and most likely wont breed unless given room.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The reptile cages are made of thin glass with a built in sliding screen top. They are not made to support weight on the ends and attempting to sit the tank on the end and/or remove the sliding screen and holder is likely to result in cracking the glass (due to how thin it is). It would be difficult to glue in a barrier to hold the materials in for the false bottom still be able to get the screen to close. 

In addition, the way the screening works is that it would be very difficult to seal the tank to retain the feeder insects. 

While many people may go with smaller enclosures for crested geckos, I would be interested in hearing why a larger enclosure is unsuited for them.. while they may not "need", it is rare to find something that doesn't do as well or better in a larger enclosure.. 

Ed


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Ed said:


> The reptile cages are made of thin glass with a built in sliding screen top. They are not made to support weight on the ends and attempting to sit the tank on the end and/or remove the sliding screen and holder is likely to result in cracking the glass (due to how thin it is). It would be difficult to glue in a barrier to hold the materials in for the false bottom still be able to get the screen to close.
> 
> In addition, the way the screening works is that it would be very difficult to seal the tank to retain the feeder insects.
> 
> ...


Yup, these 'Critter Cages' are over-priced and are basically useless in our hobby.. I have a few that I use to transport frogs to and from schools and talks. I was high on these when they first came out and of the 6 I originally purchased, I have 3 remaining, 1 of which has a long crack on the bottom that only holds moist moss and a few frogs during travel. I am shocked they still sell these items or that a store like Petco would even stock these. After many complaints on this product, I'm shocked that they don't offer an ugraded version.

Peter Keane


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When they first came out, I was at a reptile show and watched a guy try to tuck one under his arm so he could open a door and the glass shattered under his arm. It was like watching a slow motion disaster movie, luckily he wasn't hurt by the incident. 

I was turned off on them when they first came out both by how thin the glass was and the fact that they came labeled not safe for small snakes (as they could easily escape). 

Ed


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## huntin4sharks (Apr 8, 2011)

dravenxavier said:


> Too big? I think not. Besides, those can make great vert cages. Just silicone in a piece of glass on the bottom part to hold in bedding. Here's one I had set up for a lone female Uroplatus.


Whoaaa what braches did you use there awesome do you have problems with them rotting???


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## dravenxavier (Mar 12, 2008)

JaredJ said:


> Uroplatus need a big tank. They don't do well in tight spaces and most likely wont breed unless given room.


Don't misunderstand. Had she been in better condition, I would have set up something larger to attempt breeding. She came in at a store with neurological problems, and while I never really was sure, I had a good feeling she was partly blind.

As for the branches, I'm not 100% sure what kind they are. I think perhaps silver maple. I'd found some tree branches that had been cut down, and dried them out and had them in storage for about 6 months when I came across the gecko, and threw them in there (buried the base in the substrate, and GS'd the tops to the top). They never remained soaking wet in there, which helped, and the screen front gave plenty of ventilation...in a dart frog viv, I'm not sure how they'd hold up.


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