# Help please Azureus may be sick! pics inside



## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

So ya i bought 3 Azureus from a guy on craigslist who said he got them from a breeder on here. When they showed up one of them was obviously thinner than the other 2. 

I had them all in a 5gallon tank for about a week. 

While feeding i noticed the thin guy eat a little bit but seemed much less accurate and sort of gave up on eating. 

He is now in his own 2.5 gallon tank and has plenty of flies around him but just is not even trying to eat. He does seem to be able to move around and even climb the glass but doesnt move alot at all.

I posted pics on another forum and someone said they thought it may be chytrid. Please tell me if this is what you think it is and direct me to directions for fast treating.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

First off, good idea on housing the smaller frog individually. I would attempt to remove any uneaten fruit flies that could be bothering the frog, and use a small piece of banana in the enclosure to attract the FFs and keep them off the frog. Feed smaller amounts in the future.
Make sure you're dusting with a new vitamin/mineral supplement, as well. I would also provide plenty of hiding spots in the enclosure for the frog, and keep it away from high traffic/noisy areas.


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## Kevin1234 (Oct 12, 2008)

I would try another food source if possible. Termites, springs, baby mealworms. I recently had an experience with a dart that refuses fruit flys. Also I agree with the banana idea. Its good for 2 reasons: 1 it keeps the flies in one area and there not pestering the frog and 2 the flies will lay eggs and the banana will be covered in maggots in a few days. The frog will hopefully feed on the maggots which are good for putting on weight as well. I usually put the slice of banana in a water bottle cap. after its almost gone I just toss it and grab a new one. 

Good luck!
Kevin


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## heaventreeofstars (Oct 8, 2007)

Also, has the frog been tested for parasites? You should probably send a fecal to a vet if it hasn't.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Most issues are going to be related to poor husbandry vs parasites. Husbandry issues are the first to look. 

In addition, the symptoms he is describing could be a vitamin deficiency or just be a non thriving dart frog. 

What type os supplements are you currently using with the frogs?



heaventreeofstars said:


> Also, has the frog been tested for parasites? You should probably send a fecal to a vet if it hasn't.


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok as for other meal types i have only heard of the springtails where might i find the other things at?

Bottle cap idea is good i will do that. I already was using the banana.

Parasite testing. No and im not sure i can afford it until about a week or 2.

Husbandry. Im not sure at all what this is could you elaborate on this for me please?

*edit* also the current feeding is FF dusted in only Repti cal with calcium. I have the Herptivite mail ordered since nobody int own has any.

So do none of you think it is Chytrid then?

Thank you for your replies/time/help!

Fud


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Doubt it. Most issues come back to husbandry. Although people like to suggest otherwise, they do. Since you got the frogs off of Craig's list I wonder why he got rid of them. Not that the person wasn't taking care of them - but he might have already had issues with the frogs before you got them.

Looking at the tanks - you have them on paper towels with a few leaves in there. I would get them on some sphagnum with additional leaf litter and some hiding spots. Having them in the set up you do - could be causing additional stress as well.

If you don't have any sphagnum, Lowes sells orchid moss (Chilean sphagnum) which will work and can be found in the garden center for about $5 a brick - that will be more than enough. 

I don't know why anyone would come up with the suggestion of Chytrid based on the information you have given.

You might want to do some research on "short tongue" on the forum. Lack of specific supplements can cause that so you might get some ideas of what can help.


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok here is some updated pics. Sorry the paper towels was already replaced with forest floor moss? Pets mart brick had to put in water. Can you explain what husbandry is more to me?

Thanks again
Fud


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

> hus·band·ry
> 1.
> a. The act or practice of cultivating crops and breeding and raising livestock; agriculture.
> b. The application of scientific principles to agriculture, especially to animal breeding.


Many problems are caused by the simple fact that proper parameters for care are not quite what they should be. This can cause added stress on the frogs. 

The husbandry is basic care of the frogs. Temperatures of 70-80º F during the day with drops as low as 65º F at night are recommended. That being said you don't want huge fluctuations in temperature. I would try to keep the temp for a stressed frog steady at 72 to 75 degrees F all day and all night. 

Humidity should stay above 80%. You can also place a shallow water dish in the tank and the frog can help regulate it's water intake.

Make sure you are dusting fruit flies with both the Rep-cal and Herptivite. They have an expiration date on the container, but replace them after 6 months to a year. Only feed a small amount, so there are not a lot of extra flies crawling around in the tank. They can cause added stress on the frog and I remember reading that fruit flies clean off suppliments in about an hour. So, although the frog may be eating fruit flies all day, they may not have the proper nutrition. The lack of nutrition bay be the cause as Melissa68 stated earlier.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/7152-short-tongue-syndrome.html

Keep a large amount of cover in there so the frog has many places to hide. I buy cheap phothos plants and just place cuttings in the tank after soaking them in water and rinsing them off very good to avoid any pesticides or fertilizer often used with many retailers.

Get a temp/humidity gauge and know exactly is going on in there. When you can have the fecal tested. Until then keep researching and learning as much as you can.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Jason said:


> They can cause added stress on the frog and I remember reading that fruit flies clean off suppliments in about an hour. So, although the frog may be eating fruit flies all day, they may not have the proper nutrition.


I'm always worried about that too but I remember on frognet hearing that the dust actually stays on the flies for 12 hours or something, although it looks like they clean it off pretty quickly


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

ChrisK said:


> I'm always worried about that too but I remember on frognet hearing that the dust actually stays on the flies for 12 hours or something, although it looks like they clean it off pretty quickly


Thats why I dust every single feeding.


1. Seperate the thin frog from other frogs.

2.Make sure heat and humidity requirements are good (Jason covered these both I think) Spaghnum moss is very good for quarantine and temporary containers.

3.Provide oak leaves or similar hides and try not to disturb the frog or cause stress.

4.Stick with FF instead of Phoenix worms,small mealworms or even springtails. IMHO FF are the best for rehabilitation because you will need the vitamin and calcium and the dusted fly is your best way to transport that to the frog.

5.Here is the tricky part...try to tap/drop 2-3 flies from your dusting cup directly in front of the frog. The key here is that the frog probably doesnt have the ability to move and hunt, so you will have to assist by having the FF as close as possible to his mouth. You also do not want a lot of excess FF in the small container that will stress out the frog. 

6. Don't panic and think Disease or parasites just yet....

Good luck and keep us informed.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Some of the dust is still on the flies after 12 hours based on one study but the amount on the flies starts to go down almost immediately as the flies begin to groom it off. 

Ed


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Update. I have seen him eat but he seems to be getting thinner. He has the banana in a bottle cap that looks like it has maggots in it. He has leaf litter and a hut for hiding. I need a quick guesstimate of what i should try. I am thinking this is not Chytrid or husbandry. The temps are 73-75 daytime and 69 low at night. I am thinking maybe parasites and should maybe try the Metronidazole. Please let me know what you think. Also what form i should get that medicine in and how to apply it.

Thanks,
Chris


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## Kevin1234 (Oct 12, 2008)

you really should get a fecal done first.....but metra is applied by drops on the back.


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Kevin1234 said:


> you really should get a fecal done first.....but metra is applied by drops on the back.


I understand this but my problem at the moment is that my wife works and i do not she just got a promotion yesterday but with it came the once a month paycheck so we are pretty much broke until the 26th. So i will manage to get the meds and try to save this little guy while he still has a chance.

Where do i get the medicine in liquid form? How much do i apply to him? do i dilute it? If there is a thread explaining all this please direct me to it. I have used search but not finding direct directions on it.

Chris


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## Kevin1234 (Oct 12, 2008)

I purchased it from dr. Frye. $30 for it and $10 shipping


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

When you say you have seen it eat....what has it eaten and how often?

How many dusted flies has it eaten?

Be careful with the medication route....if you are not careful..there is no going back.

Up the temps a few degrees both day and night - try to keep them steady at around 76 if you can. Make sure the humidity is also @ 80 %


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Ive only seen it a few dusted flies maybe 2-3. Im afraid of putting any more in because there is quite a few in there now and also the maggots are showing up. I have been feeding once a day at about 10pm.

I have a zilla digital thermo/hygro unit but for some reason the hygro reading just stays at -- and the directions give no help with what that means.

Chris


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Also should i use paper towels and not the forest floor moss im currently using it may be too hard for him to catch food he misses with his tongue alot.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

moist paper towels would be better. plenty of dry oak leaves and pothos for hides.

Try to drop 3-4 dusted flies right in front of his head two times a day. 

I feed in the morning and afternoon....never at night.


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok i will have to change the tank out then. I also still dont have my herptivite it should have been delivered by now but its not so the current dusting only consists of rep cal with calcium and VIT-D.

Thanks Phil


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok for the last 2 days i have changed the substrate of the sick frog to paper towels,Raised the temp to 76-77 pretty constant. Humidity i think is 100% Zilla reader just says --. He is not even trying to eat i need to do something fast before it dies.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

You may have to prepare yourself for the loss of this frog...

Take heart in the fact the you got the frog from someone unwilling or unable to care for it and tried your best. You are doing the best job you can with it.

Sometimes a frog is too far gone for any help....medical or otherwise. Frogs are not like mammals, dogs and cats where they have a substantial body mass or even possibly...a will to live. If it was so thin and not feeding, sometimes within days or even hours, it will expire.

You can always take it to a vet....quickly, but don't be suprised if they can't do anything either as it is very hard when they are as depleted as the condition you received it.

Good luck and I am glad you found Dendroboard and asked us for help.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

One other quick idea....update your profile / and or post on this thread:

Your location....city / town and State

We all know you are asking for help and if you lived anywhere up to 50 or so miles from me....I'd offer to look at your frog. I would think that someone closeby on the board would do the same

I am sorry I didn't ask you this earlier, and thats certainly my fault.....my apologies 

Phil


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Cool done. Im in Muncie,Indiana btw.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Threre has got to be some DB'ers near you... Muncie Indiana.

You are a little too far for me to come out. Sorry

Someone local, please contact evilfud.....


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## evilfud (Nov 19, 2008)

Well i got back from the hospital (my 1st kidney stone! YAY) and the little guy was dead. I can at least say that i tried to save him. The other 2 are nice and healthy at least it seems so. They both hunt and eat great. I will take some pics of them so ya can see em. Thanks to all who tried to help me save my sick dude.

p.s im still heavily medicated so i hope im making sense,
Fud


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your frog Fud. Good on you for doing your best to save him.

Cheers,


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