# Red eye tree frogs versus poison dart frogs



## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

I am finding my poison dart frog pretty easy to care for, but I have heard that red eye tree frogs are more fragile...but I am considering giving it a try. What do you guys think? Are they any harder than dart frogs to care for? Any specific needs? Thanks


----------



## maxmlax (Aug 13, 2006)

well, considering these two species of frogs are COMPLETELY different its hard to compare the two, I've never kept red eyes but I've considered it on many occasions, which spurred a lot of research, naturally...

my opinion on the subject is that they are about equal, but if I had to pick one that's harder, it would be pdfs, this is because they are smaller, therefore they eat smaller things and are harder to keep alive.

you are keeping how many frogs? and if I remember correctly you only have one frog, I think that many people will reply to this subject who keep 10+ frogs and they will definitely say pdfs, my opinion is not how hard the frog is to keep, but the reward you get from seeing it act in its natural environment and perhaps reproducing successfully....anyways just my two cents...

-max


----------



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

I am in the same boat as maxmlax - I have considered keeping them before, researched it, but haven't actually had any.

I agree that pdf's are probably a little tougher just because you have to culture ff's for them, and that comes with it's own obstacles. However, I can understand how people might think that red eyes are tougher for a couple of reasons:

1)A lot of them are imported (or at least they were when I was looking) so they probably have a high parasite load and thus a higher death rate, even CB ones may have high parasite loads due to care conditions.

2) They are probably tougher to breed than your average tinc or leuc - I believe that they prepare separate wet enclosures and mimic a wet season to get them to breed.

Just do your research, they're not like pdf's - they're nocturnal for one thing, so you won't get to watch them during the day. I would consider trying to pair your dart frog off and see if you can breed them (another joy in this hobby) before you get into red-eyes... but that's just me.


----------



## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I had some for a couple years when I was younger. Just make sure to get some cb frogs. They definately need a vertically oriented viv (duh, I know); a 20L vert would be great for a couple. Just remember they eat crickets, easily bought but less easily cultured (they are noisy and smell). If you can meet their environmental needs, they are a piece of cake. Just get cb frogs.


----------



## 955i (Mar 23, 2006)

The fact that red-eyes do pretty much nothing during the daylight hours would influence me more toward getting some more darts instead, but that is my personal opinion  .


----------



## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Thats a very good point. My RETF viv looked really cool, but it wasnt until lights out that the frogs emerged from their hiding spaces. They are really neat, but if you're looking to keep soemthing that is awake when you are, get more darts!


----------



## njfish77 (Aug 5, 2006)

I would have to go with PDF's just for the fact that the are constantly out during the day and sleep at night which is the total opposite with RETF's. Also there is not much to maintain with PDF's and they easy to keep as long as you have enough FF's and the right tank set-up.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

It depends. I think the nocturnal thing can be overexaggerated because if we're talking about keeping shier species of dart frogs, you won't see them much daytime OR nightime. 

Additionally, some folks reverse the day and night cycles for their treefrogs (except they are in a dark room so they won't be disturbed) so you can look at them during the day. Except, you must keep things dark.

I think one drawback to treefrogs is that they generally need more space and crickets can be a real problem. One good thing, I have read they like lower humidity and higher temperatures than darts, so if you have problems with heat in the summer, a RETF would be a better option. 

The main reason why I don't keep any hylids, I don't have enough space.


----------



## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

Yeah I'm thinking I want more darts ^_^ I knew they were nocturnal, but still I love getting up in the morning and seeing froggy hopping around...now to the Imitator store!


----------



## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

go frogs!


----------



## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

Having both Redeyes and darts, I think they are both equally satisfying. I have only had my red eyes a couple months, and they are already very used to me coming in the evening. Plus they are still generally awake in the morning when I check on them at 7:00 or so. Mine grab crickets as I drop them into the cage. It is pretty sweet. They like lots of room which more ventilation than darts, while still needing humidity in the enclosure.

I would try the redeyes.


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

i think red eyes are worth it, they are beautiful frogs and are't nearly as shy as PDF's.


----------



## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

Red Eyes are not shy in the least; however my darts are anything but shy... I keep Dendrobates azureus and auratus and both species are always out and about in their respective enclosures during the day.


----------



## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

It all depends on who you ask. I have been told that horned frogs were hard to care for, and now after owning 7, I can say that they are the simplest frog to care for. Personally I think the RETF's are a tad bit simpler to look after.


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

Frogsarethashit said:


> It all depends on who you ask. I have been told that horned frogs were hard to care for, and now after owning 7, I can say that they are the simplest frog to care for. Personally I think the RETF's are a tad bit simpler to look after.


I've heard from several sorces(mostly online care sheets) that RETF's are not "beginner frogs", but how do you define beginner, because i don't see how they are harder than my auratus. Mist them, feed them, change the water, spot clean here and there, very simple stuff. 

Even though they tend to sleep alot, they are worth it, they are beautiful frogs. They are even better if you are in to photography, i stuck my camera right up close to mine last night to get a shot, he didn't move an inch. Unlike my PDF, they don't run and hide when they see you, they will sit really still. Great frogs, if you are looking to get a bigger frog or do something other than a pdf, get a RETF. 

Heres the shot i took lastnight


----------



## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

titan501x said:


> Mist them, feed them, change the water, spot clean here and there, very simple stuff.


To some people this seems like its very hard to do. It all depends on the person. Some people are lazy, some people aren't. I think taking care of amphibians is simple stuff, not to mention enjoyable.


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

Frogsarethashit said:


> titan501x said:
> 
> 
> > Mist them, feed them, change the water, spot clean here and there, very simple stuff.
> ...


But for people on here its just one more step to take to keep these guys, we all mist our dart tanks, feed them, spot clean and stuff like that, an extra step or two is nothing. This is not a good hobby to be lazy about, and if you don't find that taking care of your pets isn't enjoyable, then you shouldn't have them! I think that having pets actually keeps me organized, i have to be very organized to take care of them and this helps structure my day/week.


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

If anything, one frog that clearly should not be in the hands of beginners are pipid frogs. I have visited so many pipid frog boards and the main topic is "My clawed frog / my dwarf frog is sick." 

Generally what the petstore tells you about the frogs isn't accurate...but most don't care because they are so cheap. One thing is particular, Xenopus laevis laevis despises warm water for great lengths of time (above 75 degrees) which is the primary reason for bacterial infection.

Most people fail to realize that an adult female X. laevis may reach 6" snout to vent and would prefer much more room than a ten gallon tank.

Back to treefrogs though, I think frog keeping in general is overexaggerated as far as difficulty. A lot of people just aren't willing to make the commitment to READ and gain knowledge. Even a lot of folks that own dogs seriously need to spend time actually training their relatively obnoxious pets. (just watch Dog Whisperer, lol) :roll:


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

Rain_Frog said:


> Back to treefrogs though, I think frog keeping in general is overexaggerated as far as difficulty. A lot of people just aren't willing to make the commitment to READ and gain knowledge. Even a lot of folks that own dogs seriously need to spend time actually training their relatively obnoxious pets. (just watch Dog Whisperer, lol) :roll:


That is what seperates the good pet owner from the bad pet owner. I researched RETF's for 3 months before getting one, and i still do about 30 min. of researching a day. Even my dart frog i researched about for a week 2-3 hours a day before i got him and i still read caresheets. I would recommend that anyone do as much research as possible before getting a new pet.


----------



## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

I agree with the fact that pipid frogs are probably the hardest to take care of, but this is simply only because of the fact that people are lazy and think they can keep their frogs in the same water for 6 months to a year, and only completely cleaning the tank once or twice a year. They don't do partial water changes and thats why their frogs get sick. Most of these people see a $5 frog in a petstore and treat it as a spurr of the moment throw away commodity. We don't find people like this online and in forums, but they far outnumber "us".


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

People need to think as if they were that animal and they would not want dirty water all the time. Clean water is *essentail for frogs*. The water is how they get hydrated, i'm pretty sure that most people wouldn't want to drink water from a puddle in a toxic waste dump, so neither do they're frogs. Even if you have a filter for the water, the water needs to be changed once a month, and be partially changed twice a month, the filter needs to clean every month really well. I change my RETF's water everyday(red eyes soak in water for 5+ minutes everynight when they get up), but i did make it easy to change his water too, i have it in a bowl. Every morning when i get up i take the bowl to the sink, dump it out and fill it with filtered water. 

THIS IS NOT A GOOD HOBBY TO SLACK OFF IN!!![/b]


Pic of my RETF soaking


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

sorry for the double post but, here is the reason for getting a RETF


----------



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

_
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with the fact that pipid frogs are probably the hardest to take care of, but this is simply only because of the fact that people are lazy and think they can keep their frogs in the same water for 6 months to a year, and only completely cleaning the tank once or twice a year. They don't do partial water changes and thats why their frogs get sick. Most of these people see a $5 frog in a petstore and treat it as a spurr of the moment throw away commodity. We don't find people like this online and in forums, but they far outnumber "us".
_________________
Always looking for amphibians in Canada _

True, but I had clawed frogs for six years and did all the water changes and still had problems. They were always sick for some odd reason. There is some very bad information circulating that they like warm temps. I found out too late.

MANY pages state this. This is very far from the truth. They will not tolerate temps above 75 degrees for extended periods of time. Xenopus Express (http://www.xenopus.com) states to keep the temp between 68-75. Many clawed frog folks that I know have almost always suffered most of their losses in the summer.

Like I said, they get very large and some people insist that a ten gallon is adaquet for a female that can grow to six inches SVL. I got into quite a tussle with somebody on The Frog about that who insisted this.

But yeah, clawed frogs are very hardy frogs. But so are iguanas. I often reference iguanas because, like clawed frogs, they are cheap, hardy, and small to start with. But few owners are willing to compensate for what they paid initially for the animal for what they'll need to dish out when the animal is full grown. 

I guess why that is difficult for some people...coming up with the money. But honestly, they'd do better in a cheap, 55 gallon rubbermaid container sitting on your cool basement floor than some ten gallon tank with all sorts of cute little sharp pointed ornaments with a heater. 

Bloodworms isn't a very good diet for most pipids, and often dwarf frogs are fed it exclusively. Other experts I've talked to refuse to feed bloodworms as often it can cause the dreaded bloating disease.

Back to treefrogs, GREAT shots Titan. How long have you had this frog again?


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

Rain_Frog said:


> Back to treefrogs, GREAT shots Titan. How long have you had this frog again?


Thank you, i've had this frog for 5 days now.


----------



## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

Well thanks for everyones replies and ressurecting this thread...but I decided to go with imitators and don't regret my choice one bit! Maybe for my next frog... :wink:


----------

