# Hydei vs. Bean Beetles



## jwthought (Oct 30, 2004)

Hi,
Im much better at culturing bean beetles than I am hydei. So Im wondering, so long as there is appropriate supplementation, can the bean beetles be an acceptable substitute for the hydei as a staple, nutritionally speaking? 

Thanks.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Nutritionally, I have no idea... but their hatch rate is so boom/bust I would hate to rely on them completely. 

Try melanogaster flies, they're easier than hydei and can be used as a complete replacement.


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## jwthought (Oct 30, 2004)

Thanks. I have a bunch of melo's going and I do fine with their production, but for the life of me I can't seem to get the hydei going for more than a few generations.

The reason I'm asking this question is because Im also feeding newly morphed treefrogs that get too large to be interested in the smaller melos after a few weeks. I need that 1/4 inch feeder size to bridge the gap between melos and small roaches. Im also trying to avoid crickets.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I stopped rearing hydei and use bean beetles in thier place. As a food for hourglass treefrogs, I use it for about 90% plus of thier diet (shortly after metamorphosis to adult sized). 

They are actually fairly predicatable as to when they boom and bust as they have a life span of ten to twelve days, that even only making three cultures a week, I tend to have multiple cultures producing every day. 


Ed


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

jwthought said:


> Hi,
> Im much better at culturing bean beetles than I am hydei. So Im wondering, so long as there is appropriate supplementation, can the bean beetles be an acceptable substitute for the hydei as a staple, nutritionally speaking?
> 
> Thanks.


Well, seeing as how supplemented hydei are just a substitute for the natural diversity of bugs a wild frog would be eating, I would say yes. The supplementation is a key element. Heck, many have described FF's as basically being a vehicle for supplementation anyway.

There are ways to mitigate the boom/bust impact, but they basically involve having multiple cultures being rotated. I think the greatest objection to BBs isn't the feast or famine, it's their uncanny ability to escape.




*Ed beat me to it*


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I forgot to add about thier ability to escape... It makes it worse than hydei as they are able to persist around the house longer than the flies (which are also much more easy to trap). 

Ed


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi JW,

You should try culturing "Golden" D. Hydei, as they are much easier than the black form and take less time to mature. They are my preferred food for adult D. tinctorius.

Good luck, Richard.


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## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> Hi JW,
> 
> You should try culturing "Golden" D. Hydei, as they are much easier than the black form and take less time to mature. They are my preferred food for adult D. tinctorius.
> 
> Good luck, Richard.


Why do you think that is? If this is the consensus, then I may be getting a culture. My experience with hydei is, they are always moldy, and usually about roughly 2 out of six cultures dud out without a boom (basically a clear liquid forms at the bottom of the culture, that's it,). However, most of the cultures come out of left field with an unexpected boom. I can never seem to calculate it. Hydei are kind of a staple for me, as they are accepted by non-darts.Thanks,JVK


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## mcaiger53 (Jan 3, 2011)

sorry to hijack. 
richard, 
I have never seen golden heidi, how does their size compare to standard/black heidi? about how long do they take to start producing? 
thanks, mike


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## jwthought (Oct 30, 2004)

Thanks for the responses. 

About how old are the beetles that you all are making new cultures with? Im making 2-4 cultures per week and getting good production seeding with the youngest bloom. Does that seem correct? 

Also, about how many frogs are you able to feed with 3 cultures per week? Im doing ok now but I'm quickly expanding my collection and I concerned about raising enough beetles for everyone.

On the other hand golden hydei might be a good option as well...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I get the best production if I use the beetles in the first 8 days or so.. (given that thier life span is about 12-14 days) as in part they will have been depositing eggs in the current culture. Setting up three cultures a week, I have multiple cultures in some stage of production each week. 


Ed


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Mike,

Golden D. hydei are slightly smaller then the blacks and mine produce a big boom after about 18-21 days. They re-boom about a week after this.

I think the problem that people might be having with fruitflies that take longer to culture, is that there is more of a potential for mites to build-up and kill the culture. So, if anyone wants to start using the Goldens, they should probably make sure they have good mite controls in place. I use the liquid Mite-be-gone when mixing my media and add strips of paper towels impregnated with Tedion to the cultures. I still have mites, but I clean my cultures before a month goes by and this seems to help keep them in check.

Take care, Richard.



mcaiger53 said:


> sorry to hijack.
> richard,
> I have never seen golden heidi, how does their size compare to standard/black heidi? about how long do they take to start producing?
> thanks, mike


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## jwthought (Oct 30, 2004)

Thanks very much for the info, everyone.


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## jwthought (Oct 30, 2004)

Double post, sorry.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I was having an enormous mite issue until I realized the source. It was my own idiocy! I was cleaning out old cultures and swapping the vented lids... I realized my error when testing the suitability of a recycle lid. After snapping the lid into place, about a million unseen mites were on the bottom of the intended culture cup(Rapidly thrown out!). CAUTION on FF cup/lid recycling!

JBear


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## jkooiman (May 2, 2010)

jbherpin said:


> I was having an enormous mite issue until I realized the source. It was my own idiocy! I was cleaning out old cultures and swapping the vented lids... I realized my error when testing the suitability of a recycle lid. After snapping the lid into place, about a million unseen mites were on the bottom of the intended culture cup(Rapidly thrown out!). CAUTION on FF cup/lid recycling!
> 
> JBear


I recycle my lids, just get them wet, wipe them off, and nuke them in the microwave. JVK


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

jbherpin said:


> I was having an enormous mite issue until I realized the source. It was my own idiocy! I was cleaning out old cultures and swapping the vented lids... I realized my error when testing the suitability of a recycle lid. After snapping the lid into place, about a million unseen mites were on the bottom of the intended culture cup(Rapidly thrown out!). CAUTION on FF cup/lid recycling!
> 
> JBear


I bleach my old lids so that isn't an issue with me. 

Ed


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## frogcrazy (Nov 23, 2004)

Don`t mean to hijack, but how do you bleach the lids ed? Is it a 5% solution?


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I have a bleach bucket of 5-10% bleach solution and put all my lids and containers in overnight after cleaning off the old media and debris.. I also bleach any other plastic containers that have touched frogs, substrate or any unsanitized substance. I've never had mite issues except in spring cultures when I was using fresh mushrooms.

Bleach is an oxidizing substance that reacts with any organic matter, so you don't want to put dirty containers in the solution or too much of the hypochlorite (the compound that constitutes the oxidant in bleach) might react with the organic matter and significantly decrease the strength of the solution.


frogcrazy said:


> Don`t mean to hijack, but how do you bleach the lids ed? Is it a 5% solution?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I estimate about a ten percent solution... I soak them briefly to get the major crud loose, rinse and then soak in the bleach. I usually do about 30-50 lids in a medium sized critter cage. 

Ed


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