# Jim's display paludarium my first



## fullmonti

This will take the place that my old 180g fish tank occupied. It will be a 60x30x48" tall peninsula setup. It will have 10" of water in the bottom/W a large stump center piece & a fake rock wall on one end.


This is my old fish tank, the silicone started to turn loose & leak.

I've been doing a lot of research & asking question for months in preparation for this. I'm planing on having fish in the flooded area tree frogs (thinking whites) & a pair of Giant Day Geckos in the branches with lots of plants & orchids


Made some alterations to what was the area the lights were in. Got the bottom piece of glass in place & wanted to see what the stump would look like in place.

Did I forget to mention I'm building this thing in place because I couldn't face ever moving it?

Also the little tank in the foreground is my other tank. A 3gal cold water marine tank. Here is a link to the build thread for it, if you'd like to see it. It's a very cool little tank.
Jims temperate pico - Biotopes - Nano-Reef.com Forums


This is the view from the other side (the kitchen)


First four pieces of glass glued in.








Really I guess this was my first viv. Tommy toad lived in the basement all summer & hung out near where the AC water dripped into a floor drain & where the small light that stays on all the time is. When we turned the air off & the water dried up I put a lid with water in it for him. A couple times a month I see him sitting in his pond waiting for a bug to pass by. I'm assuming he knew better than to eat the big spider he shares the pond with.


Anyway there will be lots more pix coming. All the glass is glued together & plumbing done & have done the water test already. Just got the track for the glass doors so will be taking new pix soon.

It's taken most of the summer getting this far & I only have a little money each month to buy parts & equipment with so it's going to take awhile to pull it all together, but should be fun!

Thanks to all that have shared what they have done & answered questions!

Jim


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## fishman9809

EPIC wood. Can't wait to see what you do with it. I'll be monitoring this for sure.


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## Dendro Dave

....Hurry


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## rigel10

I think your old fish tank is one of the best I've seen. I'm sure your viv will be just as nice!


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## kitcolebay

Subscribed! Looks like a very cool project! 

-Chris


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## JoshsDragonz

This looks like a promising build. Can't wait to see how the progresses.


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## VicSkimmr

this is going to be epic


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## rabu92

Love that wood, nice tank location as well... Subscribed


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## Judy S

where in the world did you find such a beautiful piece of wood...that is going to be fabulous... but you may want to rethink your frog choice..I love all frogs, but the only problem with tree frogs is that they are nocturnal...so you just get the sleeping mode...if you have kids, the Whites are a good choice, but that viv is going to be just awesome...put Azureus or a colorful large type dart in there...am subscribed....have a blast


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## diggenem

This is going to be a nice setup. I love the big builds. Subbed!


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## FroggyKnight

I can't wait to see how this thing looks in the end! I'm very envious of that stump 

I also have always been fascinated with coldwater tanks and I especially like yours I really need to get one someday...


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## rigel10

There are already a few vivs that imitate Grimm's epic viv. My advice is to do something original, drawing on your experience of fishkeeping. A layout like that of your fish tank would be great, IMO.


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## fishman9809

rigel10 said:


> There are already a few vivs that imitate Grimm's epic viv. My advice is to do something original, drawing on your experience of fishkeeping. A layout like that of your fish tank would be great, IMO.


Grimm wasn't the first to have done a peninsula...he just made one of the better examples of a peninsula set up...

I'd say just do whatever accentuates that wood the best. That thing is so epic I can't get over it.


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## IROCthisZ28

That is a great piece you have. My question though, is why is there such a huge spider in your basement lol


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## rigel10

I am referring to the layout. I do not know previous examples to Grimm's viv (thanks for info), but the two or three peninsula vivs that I know they have a layout very similar - although they are also wonderful!


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## eos

Subscribe me!


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## fullmonti

Judy S said:


> where in the world did you find such a beautiful piece of wood...that is going to be fabulous... but you may want to rethink your frog choice..I love all frogs, but the only problem with tree frogs is that they are nocturnal...so you just get the sleeping mode...if you have kids, the Whites are a good choice, but that viv is going to be just awesome...put Azureus or a colorful large type dart in there...am subscribed....have a blast


The wood came from Manzanita Burlworks - Individual Aquarium Wood and Driftwood Pieces

He puts up new pix from time to time, so if your looking check back often (thats what I did till I found these)

I chose tree frogs because there will be very little land in this setup. I know they're nocturnal, that way the frogs & lizards wont get in each others way.


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## FroggyKnight

Thanks for the link! I've been trying to find some nice pieces for some builds I'm currently planning


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## fullmonti

Thanks for all the positive replies.

As for this setup looking like some other one or ones. I'm new to all this & not familiar with the others. This tank is simply taking the place of my old fish tank which was a peninsula setup & I got the wood because I had never seen such a nice piece before & it fit in the tank perfectly. 

And as of this morning the spider is still in the same spot. My wife wants him gone!

Thanks again
Jim


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## fullmonti

Some new pix


Track is in but no doors yet.


This is just the first stab at the size & shape of were the land will be. Faux rock wall with deep crevices will go most of the way up the end wall from the land area.


The space between the stumps is set & held in place by some lag bolts & zip ties. It will have substrate filling it for probably the largest orchid in the tank.


The water return pipe. I wanted the return water to be dispersed/diffused so I made up this rig. I did a water test & it works great. Some water goes into the glass at the end, some straight back, most back at an angle. I plan to hide it in a fake rock.


The return pump & plumbing. The drain pipes will probably be refined some, this was just pieced together for the water test. The paludarium water level is not a lot higher than the filter, so not a lot of water pressure on the overflow water. That's why the plumbing is a bit different. It's hard to see but there is a 4" tall opening across the back so I can get to the overflow plumbing. That's why the shelf on the back wall.


This is the tank I used for the filter for the discus. It is way over kill for the paludarium but I had it already so might as well use it.


This is what it looked like with the filter media in it.

That's about it for now. I'll be ordering the misting system & couple other things this week. Next will be foam fitting & carving. More pix then.

Jim


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## skanderson

beautifully designed set up. will love to see how the build goes, keep up the good work.


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## rigel10

Great job! It looks like a work of hydraulic engineering!


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## LizardLicker

Looking great so far. I agree with everyone else about that stump... It really looks fantastic. 

I found a really nice huge piece once from a place that sells wood for vivariums and/fish tanks. After I got I was a little suspicious of the wood type. After a little back and forth with the seller I finally found out it was cedar. Huge disappointment and a waste of money. Anyway, I'm glad you were able to find a nice piece of manzanita like that. It will really be a showstopper.


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## JoshsDragonz

The tank is coming along nicely Jim!


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## fullmonti

Thanks all!

I am so excited! I got my foam & hot wire cutter & placed an order with Josh's Frogs (Zach is so helpful!!!) for misting system, some lights & heat for basking spot. Will start foam work this weekend & start on the hood while waiting for grout to cure etc.

Jim


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## xTimx

Woooow I only wish I can do this! Simply amazing! 

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


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## VicSkimmr

This is already in my top 10 favorite vivariums and it isn't a quarter of the way completed yet.


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## Julio

holy crap! nice size tank i say!


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## Trickishleaf

Why is everyone so jealous/desirous of Jim's wood?!
👿

But seriously though Jim, that thing is a monster!


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## fullmonti

On a personal note that might be of interest to some. I glued all this glass together with Silicone sealant from Drs F&S. All I had ever heard about building tanks was clean the glass good & use 100% silicone. After this was all put together I ran across the fact that there is silicone sealant & silicone adhesive. The adhesive is much stronger & should be used for tank building & the sealant should be used for sealing. 

I have spent the last three days on Reef Centrals DIY forum (because there are a lot of tank builders on that site) trying to find out if this should be OK sense it's only 10" of water & wide glue seams. No one would or could say for sure if it should be OK, nor had any suggestions of what to do to be sure. I did find out the best silicone to use for under pressure use is Momentive RTV 100 series (108 being the clear thicker stuff we are familiar with). 

Just to be sure I'm going to trim & clean the silicone off the inside bottom seams & glue (with the better stuff) a strip of glass in the seams to reinforce the bottom seams. Might not be necessary, but this has been & will be even more work to bring together, so what's a little more work for peace of mind.

At the same time I lost 132 GB of mostly photos on my work computer. most was backed up but not a couple personal shoots I just did & needed badly. Spent a lot of time & some money trying to recover them & don't think what I need is in there. Crap!!!

Also went looking for grout. Lowe's had the colors I wanted, but half needed to be ordered. Sadly it takes 2 weeks for special order grout because of the way it has to be shipped. The good news is I got the black & two grays, so after carving the foam I can do the first coat or two.

Thanks for all the nice comments
Jim


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## Adam R

do what you will but i wouldn't over think your silicone issue. as long as you fill your water feature to max capacity and test for leaks you should be safe.

if your looking for a good aquarium safe sealant, i use dap brand. its pricey and comes in a small tube but it hold up very well even at small measures. 

loving your build btw. looking at your other tanks, you seem to have that creative touch thats hard to come by. looking forward to your future posts


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## JohnVI

Wow




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## fullmonti

I really think it would be OK. Sense this is replacing a name brand tank that the silicone started turning loose & leaking, I'm a bit gun shy.

Got some of the foam cut & put in. Pix soon!

Jim


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## GRIMM

This could be great! Time will tell  I do love your attention to detail, and your tiny reef is an absolute GEM!

That driftwood looks pretty sweet. Do you plan on hiding the flat section that was cut once planted?


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## fullmonti

If your talking about the tops of the stumps? Yes I scooped the tops out a bit so water would drain & I plan to put plants on the tops & in the big crack between them. Already have a bunch of branches & some will probably lay across the top of the stump for more planting surface area. Wont know how it will all come together till the fake rocks are done. I knew this would take a good while but the more I do the more I realize there is to do yet. No telling how long it will take to really be done & planted & stocked with critters.

This is worse & better than reef tanks to pull together. It all depends on how it's going at the time. My computer problems have put a big damper on everything right now.


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## fullmonti

Well worked on the lower part of the rock wall. What a learning curve! 






This one is the view from my chair, the important one.

Obviously a lot more work to do. I hope with lots more work & refinement & not to mention grout, it will look more rock like & less surfboard like. There will be rock going most the way to the top above this. Wanted the rock under & just above the water line to look smoother & more water worn. Want the rocks above to look more like rocks that rain runs over & erodes large groves. The water line is right above the wide edge of the ledge.


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## rabu92

Very nice, I especially like the view from your couch. It gives great sense of depth.

Will there be fish in the water area?


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## fullmonti

rabu92 said:


> Very nice, I especially like the view from your couch. It gives great sense of depth.
> 
> Will there be fish in the water area?


Yep fish will be the first thing to go in, mostly because I know & have what is needed for them. The plants (orchids) & frogs will come when all the lighting, misting etc are stable.

As you all could probably tell I was less than thrilled with my first effort at fake rocks. After much thought & a little testing I think I have come up with a way to make foam look more like rocks, that wont take over my life. I do wood sculpting so I was trying to do something like that with the foam. It doesn't work so well! I'll post pix of round two.


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## rabu92

It shows you have experience with sculpting. I think you're being too hard on yourself, it looks awesome so far!

Just make sure rock details are "deeper" or more pronounced at the carving stage because the small details will smoothen when it's coated.
You could use normal grout in the water part and then add some coarser grit to the grout you use on top. Maybe that would give you some more depth. Just a thought


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## the_deeb

This is coming along wonderfully. 

For what it's worth, after a few issues with some of my old DIY builds I now only build large aquariums with RTV108, but with only 10" of water and wide clean seams I think you'll be fine with regular silicone sealant (vs. one of the industrial silicone adhesives).


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## fullmonti

Thanks guys for your info & encouragement.

I did go ahead & do some reinforcing with the RTV 108 just to be double sure.

I am much happier with round two of the foam rock building project. Pix soon on that!


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## Frog pool13

Really coming along nicely can't wait to see the new pics!


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## fullmonti

This was the second attempt at the support pillar. It was much better but still didn't like the scale, it looked like a miniature of a large structure instead of life size. at least looked that way to me.





Third time's the charm I guess. Still not 100% happy with the look of the scale but think it's as close to what I was hoping for as I can get. 



Some of the tools & pieces cut out before trimming, sculpting & sanding.

I did not want to glue the rocks in. Because if I have learned one thing, it's that things change or at least we change or minds as to what we want to do.
So I cut some voids to fill with weights so hopefully they wont float!
I had not figured out how I was going to keep the first rocks from floating. 





Weights are fishing sinkers, scraps of marble & then fill with sand & supper glue the whole mess together.





Ran out of supper glue so will have to get some more tomorrow & finish up.

Should be able to get some pix of a bunch of the pieces put together & in place tomorrow or the next day. It's really finally looking good.

I know I'm being fussy with the rocks, but there will not be any plants or anything else in or around the whole bottom half of the rocks. So there will be nothing to hide or camouflage any shabby workmanship. Also they will be more dominate than most so want them to look as good as I can do.

OK about it for now
Jim


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## goof901

Make sure the sinkers are COMPLETELY sealed. I believe that they are made of lead and quite toxic. (I think)


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## rigel10

If they are made of lead, I'd be careful. It's better to seal very well! But I would use peebles for aquarium.


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## fullmonti

They are lead for sure, need the weight. Besides being incased in the sand & super glue & the weights in the rock shelf will also be surrounded by foam, it will all be sealed with the grout & then coated with epoxy. I appreciate you looking out for me but as you can tell from me being concerned about the type of silicone I originally used & then going back & reinforcing it all with the stronger silicone just to be sure, I'm nothing if not careful. 

Just for grins & giggles how many remember many years ago bunch plants for aquariums used little lead strips rapped around the bottom to keep them from floating? Then there was the Xmas tree icicles before the plastic ones that used lead. I remember them because us kids would smash them into hard heavy balls & through them at each other. If that isn't bad enough, when I was a little kid I remember tooth past tubes were made of lead, or at least partly. I haven't thought of that for years & years but I remember when they changed to plastic tubes, the new ones would not stay rolled up. 

OK, yes I'm kind of an old guy. Age is all relative though.

Thanks
Jim


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## jchavez

I'm sorry if missed it but what kind of foam are you using? And where did you get it?
I'm working on a new build soon just trying to figure out what I want before starting
Thanx!! And I love the tank can't wait to see it finished


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## fullmonti

Thanks

The foam is the kinda that comes in 4x8' sheets, usually pink or blue. I got it at Lowes but any building supply would have it. Lowes has it in 1/2, 3/4, 1" & 2" thicknesses. FWIW looks like most use Great Stuff. I didn't want to use GS because I didn't want it stuck to the tank & I like the layers of stone look.

I noticed you've been a member for 3 years & this is your first post. Guess you've been on hold for a while?

Jim


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## rabu92

fullmonti said:


> Just for grins & giggles how many remember many years ago bunch plants for aquariums used little lead strips rapped around the bottom to keep them from floating? Then there was the Xmas tree icicles before the plastic ones that used lead. I remember them because us kids would smash them into hard heavy balls & through them at each other. If that isn't bad enough, when I was a little kid I remember tooth past tubes were made of lead, or at least partly. I haven't thought of that for years & years but I remember when they changed to plastic tubes, the new ones would not stay rolled up.
> 
> OK, yes I'm kind of an old guy. Age is all relative though.
> 
> Thanks
> Jim


Coincidentally I just saw this Vsauce video that mentions lead poisoning. So unless you want aggressive tads, better seal up that lead


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## fullmonti

Aggressive tads. We could change that to killer tads & make a horror movie.

I'm sure the two part epoxy will do the trick.


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## fullmonti

Sculpting part of the bottom half is done. It's only half in size, way more than half in work & complexity. I must admit I like it!

The water level will be about where the top layer of the shelf meets the second layer. I have in my head what the top part will be like, which doesn't help much I know. If I tried to describe it, it probably wouldn't help much either. Just have to finish so we all can see what it will look like.

I know I keep saying this, but more pix soon.
Jim


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## rabu92

I love it, those water eroded ridges and holes are amazing. If the attention for detail continues like this you will have one the better tanks on this board!


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## Julio

Great rock work!


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## stickingtotincs

Looks amazing! Very inspiring too... I think I might have to grab my foam, knife, sand paper and glue tonight....


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## IndustrialDreamz

Wow! very inspirational, Move over GRIMM! lol jk! 
This just might be the next more famous enclosure to date! 
What animals do you plan on putting in??


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## fullmonti

Thanks all!

Will have fish, Rope fish will be the main attraction in the water, lots of small tree frogs (was going to keep WTF but I realized they would damage the small orchids I plan on) & a pair of small day geckos.

If any one thing would be dominate, it would probably be plants. Thant's why I called it my display paludarium because it's not really a frog tank or fish tank but a tiny ecosystem. At least that's the plan.


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## IndustrialDreamz

fullmonti said:


> Thanks all!
> 
> Will have fish, Rope fish will be the main attraction in the water, lots of small tree frogs (was going to keep WTF but I realized they would damage the small orchids I plan on) & a pair of small day geckos.
> 
> If any one thing would be dominate, it would probably be plants. Thant's why I called it my display paludarium because it's not really a frog tank or fish tank but a tiny ecosystem. At least that's the plan.


I would maybe suggest 2 pairs of Lygodactylus williamsi, they are very beautiful bright blue to deep blue/purple tiny geckos, but I would be concerned about the tree frogs seeing them as dinner, other than that man, more power to you!!


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## fullmonti

They are one of two I was thinking about. I would love to have two pairs but I was told day geckos are very territorial & one pair would probably kill the other. The frogs Would be in the 1" to 2" range so don't think they would be seen as a potential meal. That size frog couldn't choke down a 3-4" gecko??? Thought it might be best to get the frogs first & make sure they had reached full size before getting the geckos, just for that reason. I'm not planing on any breeding. If anything breeds & the little ones don't get eaten OK. I don't really have room for a bunch tanks to raise baby frogs & geckos. Guess I will need a QT tank & something for live food. I have room for that.


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## IndustrialDreamz

fullmonti said:


> They are one of two I was thinking about. I would love to have two pairs but I was told day geckos are very territorial & one pair would probably kill the other. The frogs Would be in the 1" to 2" range so don't think they would be seen as a potential meal. That size frog couldn't choke down a 3-4" gecko??? Thought it might be best to get the frogs first & make sure they had reached full size before getting the geckos, just for that reason. I'm not planing on any breeding. If anything breeds & the little ones don't get eaten OK. I don't really have room for a bunch tanks to raise baby frogs & geckos. Guess I will need a QT tank & something for live food. I have room for that.


Well there you go!
and the williams geckos get to about only 2" they are dwarf day geckos. And I understand only room for one amazing tank lol
Well hope the little critters work out for you man!!


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## hydrophyte

This is awesome!


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## hydrophyte

What the heck kind of spider is this? 



fullmonti said:


>


Also, what did you use to bond that blue styro? Does anybody else have a favorite glue for extruded styrofoam?


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## Adam R

fullmonti said:


> I know I keep saying this, but more pix soon.
> Jim


Lies!

on another note, this looks very promising. great job so far


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## fullmonti

We looked that spider up because we never shaw them before & this year we've seen several. It is a trap door spider, not to mention really big. Tommy toad must have went some where to hibernate, haven't seen him in weeks.

The glue has been an issue for me. Tried some craft glue but it melted the foam a bit. Hot glue holds it together well but is a pain if you have to try & cut through it. Still use hot glue when I'm sure I'm not going to have to cut it or sculpt it. Mostly have used a spray mount that graphic artist use. It holds pretty well & cut easy. Maybe others will give their fave.



hydrophyte said:


> What the heck kind of spider is this?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what did you use to bond that blue styro? Does anybody else have a favorite glue for extruded styrofoam?


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## fullmonti

Thought I'd post a progress photo of the rock wall 





These are not nearly done but thought some might like to see what they look like half done. The big gaps between the three chunks where wide enough will have 3 or 4" net pots for plants. The trench like cracks in the rock faces will have some Hygrolon with moss etc. in the bottom of them & around the net pots too.

More when they are done. I was thinking I was almost ready for grout when I remembered I need to do a rock to hide the pipe where water comes in from the filter too.


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## rabu92

Making good progress. Can't wait to see the finished grout look.


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## kitcolebay

Not cancelling my subscription yet!  Lol.

Looks very interesting!

-Chris


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## fullmonti

Well I have to say I was not prepared for how much work the fake rocks would be. I know there are more rocks in this tank than most I seen, but still. Trying to sift through years of threads for info for some one not fond of reading wasn't fun either. Scott at Vivarium works was kind enough to answer the last few questions I had about the grouting process.

Any way got the first coat of grout on & took some cell phone pix (still drying) Tried to crop all these pretty close so you wouldn't see how messy my shop is.





The rock shelf



The three tall rocks that make the rock wall. The round holes are for planting pots.




The two from the left side, they are built together. When I put all this together I didn't give any thought to having to brush on the grout latter. A mistake!!! 

 

Remember the funny looking return pipe? It is inside this rock.



Another view. My wife pointed out There is a face in this side.



The rock that holds the shelf up & the return pipe rock.

More when I get some different colors of grout on. Then the curing time. Probably work on the hood while waiting.


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## jimmy rustles

fullmonti said:


> They are one of two I was thinking about. I would love to have two pairs but I was told day geckos are very territorial & one pair would probably kill the other. The frogs Would be in the 1" to 2" range so don't think they would be seen as a potential meal. That size frog couldn't choke down a 3-4" gecko??? Thought it might be best to get the frogs first & make sure they had reached full size before getting the geckos, just for that reason. I'm not planing on any breeding. If anything breeds & the little ones don't get eaten OK. I don't really have room for a bunch tanks to raise baby frogs & geckos. Guess I will need a QT tank & something for live food. I have room for that.


Just check if humidity isn't too high for the williamsis, as far as i know, their part of kimbosa forest is rather dry during the day. Smaller Anoles could be interesting for your setup as well, i especially like the bimaculatus group(A. marmoratus,etc.).


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## IndustrialDreamz

What kind of grout did you use for the rocks?? looks great!


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## fullmonti

Still going back & forth on what critters to stock this thing with. Thinking about red eyed tree frogs & giant day gecko. Still a long way off though.



jimmy rustles said:


> Just check if humidity isn't too high for the williamsis, as far as i know, their part of kimbosa forest is rather dry during the day. Smaller Anoles could be interesting for your setup as well, i especially like the bimaculatus group(A. marmoratus,etc.).


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## fullmonti

IndustrialDreamz said:


> What kind of grout did you use for the rocks?? looks great!




Just a unsanded grout from lowe's. I have six colors & have been doing tests of mixing colors. After 2 or 3 base coats I plan to try different ways to add some color to them.


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## Dartfrogfreak

Looking interesting so far. I cant wait to see it finished. 
I love that peninsula design



Todd


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## jimmy rustles

fullmonti said:


> Still going back & forth on what critters to stock this thing with. Thinking about red eyed tree frogs & giant day gecko. Still a long way off though.


If you wanna check up on the anolis, heres a site with some beautiful species www.facebook.com/AnolisOfTheLesserAntilles


Gesendet von meinem ST27i mit Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

Thanks for the link, I had no idea there were so many different color variations. Looks like at least some are larger than the ones you see in Florida. The real question would be if a person would like to keep a pair of these beauties, are they available in the US? I do like the two you mentioned before. Also I think I read some where the humidity in most viv might be too high for them & long term the develop respiratory problems? Although the photos on that link look like they are in viv of some kind.

Do you keep any of them?


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## fullmonti

Dartfrogfreak said:


> Looking interesting so far. I cant wait to see it finished.
> I love that peninsula design
> 
> 
> 
> Todd


Thanks
I can't wait to see it finished too. I knew this would take a good while, but like many things you build, it's takes much longer than you even imagined. 

I've been playing with the placement of the branches I have for this. Will post a photo & ask opinions soon.


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## rabu92

fullmonti said:


> ...but like many things you build, it's takes much longer than you even imagined.


I second that, perfection takes time


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## Amphinityfrogs

Its looking great. Your rock work is wonderful. Keep posting updates.


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## jimmy rustles

fullmonti said:


> Thanks for the link, I had no idea there were so many different color variations. Looks like at least some are larger than the ones you see in Florida. The real question would be if a person would like to keep a pair of these beauties, are they available in the US? I do like the two you mentioned before. Also I think I read some where the humidity in most viv might be too high for them & long term the develop respiratory problems? Although the photos on that link look like they are in viv of some kind.
> 
> Do you keep any of them?


I cant tell you much about availability in the United States, maybe look on kingsnakes or get in contact with Jon boone, i believe he does not only care for geckos but also for anolis. Or just write the guy from facebook if he has some contacts in the us, you might get off your other questions about their husbandry with him as well, since he cares for most of them in his vivs. From what i know they are better suited for higher humidity than the williamsis or some phelsuma and should have around 70% at daytime and 90% nighttime( for the marmoratus). Beautiful work so far BTW.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

I've been doing some looking/googling & found that the anoles I like sell fro around 3 or $400 a pair. Will keep the more common ones in mind though. 

Thanks
Jim


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## Adogowo

Love the work your doing. I have been playing with an idea for creating natural cavities in concrete or GS but have not had time with school to try it out. My thought is to embed a piece or a whole fruit or vegetable into the grout or GS leaving a small opening for critter access. The decomposing (springs, isopods, etc.) Could then clear the bio material leaving a hide or planting area behind with whatever shape you wanted. Do you think this could be used in your design to create the surface pits and divits often seen in limestone? 

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

I imagen that could work just fine. I've seen people use rock salt to make small holes like that. But I used extruded foam so would have to carve out any thing you might want.


----------



## Adogowo

Sure but what about brushing in peas with four or five layers of grout over it that could give interesting holes that are shallow. Water could collect in these for the critters you eventually decide on. I'm glad you think it would work. Thanks for the feed back. Is your cliff going to the top of the tank or will it give way to canopy branches after awhile? 

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

Making rocks for reef tanks I have heard of using peas & rice & even spaghetti, pretty much anything that will rot or dissolve away.

I'll be posting some photos of first try at arranging the branches I have for this tank. I am kinda of using branches like some use vines. Going for lots of places for plants to grow sense there is basically is no land/substrate. The only other place for plants will be a few pots embedded in the rocks.


----------



## Adogowo

Sounds like epiphitic fun. It will be neat to see how the air column carriers stronger concentrations of moisture to different areas. You should get a lot of nice niches with subtle differences in climate. Anxious to see the branches.

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## fullmonti

Branches!!!


Living room side view


View from my chair.

I'm thinking the two branches at the very top will have little to no plants on them. The basking light will be on the righthand side. Also plan to have most or all the misting miss those two so they wont be wet all the time. I have heard that geckos at least develop foot problems if they are wet all the time. Might go with anoles but they probably would like a dry place as well.

I'm going to try & go without any bamboo, mostly because I don't care for the look of it.


Kitchen side

I first thought there might be too many branches, because there might not be enough room for plant growth. But the more I look at this the more I like it. Any thoughts?

I did a color test on a test piece of foam.

This test was more to see if the technique I was thinking of would actually work. The colors may vary some but I'm very happy with how the technique looks. 

Instead of the lowest spots being dark I thought I'd make them green to look like algae (it is more greenish in person). Did a thin wash of the green & wiped most off the higher places. Then brushed thinned grout of different colors on a sea sponge & dabbed that on. 

I'm going to let the base coats dry a couple more days then do this to all the rocks. Should be a really really fun day!

I just looked at this post & at least on this window the images are kinda small but if you click on them they go to full size


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## rabu92

I want to be the first to say WOW! Very nice, I really like the branch layout. It'll look awesome when they are covered in moss and epiphytes.

And the test you did on the foam, that's crazy good. Are you sure you didn't just take a rock from your garden? 

You have yet to disappoint me


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## rabu92

How are you going to attach the branches? Silicone to the glass?


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks rabu92 I try not to disappoint when ever possible.

OK you can tell I think too much. When I was building the glass part I drilled some small holes in the top pieces of glass, so I could run some wire or fishing line through to hold the branches. The few other places that wont work I can wire or screw them together.


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## rabu92

Haha I do the same thing with my build. I actually had the builder of my tank move the vent screens to the center. This way I can run some wire through the holes to support the branches  The wire/rope that are supporting the branch will be disguised as vines.


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## fullmonti

It's some what surprising how often people come up with the same solutions to a common problem.


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## fullmonti

fullmonti said:


> Thanks rabu92 I try not to disappoint when ever possible.
> 
> OK you can tell I think too much. When I was building the glass part I drilled some small holes in the top pieces of glass, so I could run some wire or fishing line through to hold the branches. The few other places that wont work I can wire or screw them together.


I wanted to add to this. I'm trying hard not to glue anything in place in this tank. This thing is big & is going to be sitting in the living room for a very long time. One thing I am sure of, at some point I'll want to change something & don't want to have to scrape everything off to make a change. If it was a more normal size, I absolutely would have built & glued most of this stuff in. It would be so much easier. 

Just me thinking again.


----------



## VicSkimmr

I can't say I'm a fan of the branches, they clutter up the look and mess up the negative space. They look especially out of place since everything else in the tank looks so fantastic.

That rockwork is a work of art.


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## Adam R

VicSkimmr said:


> I can't say I'm a fan of the branches, they clutter up the look and mess up the negative space.


i agree, they look very cluttered

have you considered how this may affect the cleaning(squeegeeing) of the inside tank walls?


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## snake54320

VicSkimmr said:


> I can't say I'm a fan of the branches, they clutter up the look and mess up the negative space. They look especially out of place since everything else in the tank looks so fantastic.
> 
> That rockwork is a work of art.


It might be true on a pure esthetic value, but you have to keep in mind that this tank will house anoles, that love climbing on branches  

I think you did a great compromise in between esthetic and suitability for the futur inhabitants. 

What kind of Anolis are you looking forward to purchase ? Some species are semi-aquatic by nature and would be perfect for this paludarium. 

Regards,


----------



## fullmonti

My first impression of the arrangement was, is it too much? I pretty much have decided considering I want lots of epiphyte type orchids etc, tree frogs & a pair of lizards & the jungle look, it is OK.

Having never had one of these, No I hadn't even thought about cleaning the inside glass! A very good point, I'll have to see how much room I have to spare. The entire sides being doors, worse come to worse I guess I could take the doors out one at a time to clean them?

As for the anoles, of course the ones I've seen I like are 2 to $400 a pair, not the price point I was looking for. Which ones are semi-aquatic? That sounds absolutely perfect! The main consideration is they not be so small red eyed tree frogs would look at them as a meal. Not so big the anoles would eat the frogs. I have heard conflicting stories going both ways, better safe than sorry.

Thanks for the comments, pros & cons. Keep'm cumin
Jim


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## Giga

I'd have to agree all those branches are very distracting. I say a couple comming down the rock wall would look good but other then that I would take the rest out.


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## fullmonti

About the branches.

The first thing I noticed when I first started reading threads here, was how beautiful viv can be when finished. The second thing was how truly unattractive they can be early on in the process. Some have said the branches in this case are cluttered or busy. I agree they are busy, but it's an intermediate stage. Only time will tell if after all the plants are in whether it will have the jungle look I'm going for, or just be crowded. It may be just exactly what I wanted & you may still not like it, & that's fine too.

I know I ask for thoughts & I do appreciate the feed back, especially the practical stuff like having room to clean & perform maintenance & room for plant growth. I did a little tweaking to help accommodate those things.

The weather here is terribly gloomy, not fit for anything out doors. So Tomorrow may be a put the color on the rocks day. Then I'll have the 30 days curing to work on the hood. The hood will have 8 fans, 2 T5 fixtures, 3 LED bulbs, 1 basking lamp & the misting nozzles. Should be interesting fitting all that in there?


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## Adogowo

Something I have always loved about nature is how it doesn't care if it looks good so long as it functions. Isn't this how micro climates are made afterall.

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## jimmy rustles

I actually like the branches, although i think that some branches with a rougher surface are lacking, especially if you have smaller lizards like geckos/takydromus/ anolis. I'd actually think about some middle thick Lianas hanging from the top into or slightly above the water.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RNKot

Looks promising! Please keep us informed.


----------



## epiphytes etc.

I like the branches. I think it makes the whole thing look kinda psychedelic.


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## FroggyKnight

epiphytes etc. said:


> I like the branches.  I think it makes the whole thing look kinda psychedelic.


I agree 100%.

It has function and beauty


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## rigel10

I would prefer a cleaner look. In particular, I do not like this detail because the branches look like placed in an unnatural way. Overall, however, your work deserves 5 ​​stars.


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## mirageknight

Inspiring stuff to a relative newbie who's used to working on pretty small scale. I'm going to have to give some of these great rock techniques a try in my upcoming 36x18x18. Again, smaller scale, to be sure!


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## fullmonti

Remember when I said it would be a really fun day putting the color on the rocks? What I should have said was, it will be a really fun three days putting the color on the rocks!

It was fun, long but fun. They turned out nice too.


The support rock


The rock that has the return water pipe imbedded in it. Both of these are done I think


Rock shelf


Cave in the rock shelf

Some close ups









These are all Iphone photos so had to try & get the color right, still isn't the best. Wish you could see them in person. Sorry it's really hard to break out the good camera when your covered in grout.


I'm not recommending anyone do the sea sponge dapping method, but if you do. This is after cleaning up some. I hate working in latex cloves.

Other than the fact these things are so light they even feel like rocks now. 

One more step that took way longer than I ever guessed closer to being done.

When they are all done I'll put them back in the tank & get a shot all put together, before the curing thing begins.



Some how I missed this one.


The green wash that is under all the other colors.


----------



## fullmonti

rigel10 said:


> I would prefer a cleaner look. In particular, I do not like this detail because the branches look like placed in an unnatural way. Overall, however, your work deserves 5 ​​stars.


Yes that area is ugly right now. I had planed to put 2 or 3 broms. or an orchid in that spot anyway, so that whole area will be covered with moss when the plants are in. There might be a couple more unsightly spots like that that will be coved up with moss.

That's why I said this is an intermediate stage subject to change and or refinement. Good eye though, glad to see others really studies the photos here too.


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## rabu92

That has to be the best rock work I've ever seen! Amazing!


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## kitcolebay

Those rocks are awesome! Very well done!

My thought leaned toward "unnatural" on the branch placement too. I didn't say anything because I've seen some hardscape that I haven't been too fond of that turned out amazing after planted. That goes both ways too. Some have great hardscape and it takes a turn for the worse after being planted and filled in. I thought your branches (the upper ones) have potential after having moss and plants all over them. My other thought was that they might look pretty cool if they were all incorporated at the base and fanned out into the area like a typical tree or bush structure, then a canopy of moss, broms, and such in the upper portion.

-Chris


----------



## rigel10

Not ugly. I said "unnatural" because the two branches look to rest on the stump and they give you an idea of "temporary". Hardscape has its own importance. But of course (and first of all) the viv should reflect the taste of the builder and the needs of plants and frogs.
I was not satisfied with the hardscape of one of my viv (too many branches sticking out from the background), but with broms and plants, it looks nice and those branches are useful to frogs. My little nephew calls now this viv: "frogs rec room".


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## fullmonti

rigel10 said:


> Not ugly. I said "unnatural" because the two branches look to rest on the stump and they give you an idea of "temporary". Hardscape has its own importance. But of course (and first of all) the viv should reflect the taste of the builder and the needs of plants and frogs.
> I was not satisfied with the hardscape of one of my viv (too many branches sticking out from the background), but with broms and plants, it looks nice and those branches are useful to frogs. My little nephew calls now this viv: "frogs rec room".


I went back & looked at that spot. Looks like the branch perched on top the larger one could be brought in behind & under the larger. That way it will be more stable & look less temporary.

"frogs rec room" Love it.


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## fullmonti

When I was working on the rocks in my shop, they kept looking a little green. So I put some more color on. At that point all you can do is add the lighter tones on top, the darker tones have to be underneath. I put them in the tank today & put the T5's above the tank to see how it looked all together. Now they look OK (not greenish at all) but a little bland, less so when you look close up. The only way to add more color at this point is to start all over again from the green wash on. I think it will be fine once every thing else goes in. I can't even think about doing all that over again.





And a over all shot, just because



I really like the overall look. I can just see it full of plants & some tree frogs & anoles jumping around.


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## Giga

not a fan of all those branches, but it'll still look good full of plants


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## VicSkimmr

fullmonti said:


> About the branches.
> 
> The first thing I noticed when I first started reading threads here, was how beautiful viv can be when finished. The second thing was how truly unattractive they can be early on in the process. Some have said the branches in this case are cluttered or busy. I agree they are busy, but it's an intermediate stage. Only time will tell if after all the plants are in whether it will have the jungle look I'm going for, or just be crowded. It may be just exactly what I wanted & you may still not like it, & that's fine too.


I only mention it because this tank has _so_ much potential. I typically don't give constructive criticism.

Definitely looking forward to seeing the finished product


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## Elsongha

Great build Jim! I'm excited to see the plants bring it all together!!


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## fullmonti

Thanks all for the encouragement, Ive been needing it.

Been spraying the rocks to cure once or twice a day. Have them in a big tub with the top covered to stay wet longer.

Also been working on the hood. What a pain!!!. It would have been easy if I was starting from scratch. But when you have to adapt something from one thing into another it's always harder. Think I finally have it figured out & have a good start on the work. Should have it done enough for some more pix in a week or so


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## AZimm

The tank looks really awesome so far! I'm inspired!! I actually can imagine this looking finished and the branches adding some great detail to the top of the tank. What are you sealing the rocks& grout with?


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## fullmonti

From what I understand you don't really have to seal the grout at all. I do plan to seal the rocks that are under water with epoxy though. They have a bunch of lead weights in them so they wont float. Between that & being constantly under water I would just feel better if they were sealed up good.


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## emallard25

Hey man, looking great, I'm subscribing for sure. Can't wait to see the finished product. Keep up the good work!


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## fullmonti

Finally got the fan thing figured out & done!


This is the mount I found

I saw something similar on another thread here
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/140682-cool-way-mount-fan.html
But I didn't like the suction cup mount. Did some searching & found these.
SiriusXM Radio Multi Angle RAM Mount | Heavy Duty Sirius XM Radio Mount | SiriusXM Radio Mount

Used channel aluminum to mount fan to adjustable mount. Best way I could think of & not impede air flow.

I have an area above the tank that will house the fans & misting system with a mess screen to keep frogs & lizards from getting into the fans. Above this area is where the lights will be. Made a acrylic divider to separate fan & light area.




The mount for the basking bulb.


Acrylic divider with fans mounted in place. The basking bulb goes through a hole in the acrylic.

Still don't know what lights I will end up using. Some of the orchids I like want nearly full sun levels of light. No problem getting that amount of light. The problem is paying for it. I'm talking to the folks at Build My LED to see how much more light I'll need to get that level of light. I have some metal halide I tried out but they put out to much heat for the acrylic. Pretty concerned what this may cost.

I'm pretty close to being able to fill the water part. May just do that & get some fish & let it run with the T5s I already have till I get the light issue resolved.


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## Julio

Honestly one fan is enough I think u have way too much ventilation in there


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## fullmonti

When I have talked to any of the orchid people about growing orchid in a paludarium, the first thing they say is "your going to need really good air movement". Also I have no vents under the doors because most of the time I will be looking at this seated & didn't want to be looking right at a vent. So most of the fans are pointed at the doors & one at the end panel to keep them clear. Also these are very quite fans that only put out 74 CFM. They will all be on a little controller from the manufacturer, so they can be dialed down if needed. 

I may well have more than is needed, if so they come out real easy.


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## fullmonti

Hope that explanation of why I used that many fans wasn't to abrupt or blunt. All the orchid grows I talked to made a pretty big point of air movement, so I wanted to be sure they were happy & the glass stays as fog free as possible.


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## Dendro Dave

You could try hooking the fans up to some kinda wave maker timed outlet like these...

Natural Wave Multi Cycle Timer Reeftank Wavemaker Power Strip Aquarium Systems | eBay

Coralife Digital Power Center (Day-Night-Timer or Wave Maker)

I think you'll find you wanna run them on timers. I tend to agree with others that is overkill on fans. You have to remember it is air circulating in a box... once it is moving, with no place to go it is going to keep moving, but like you said you can pull some out if need be. I'd just keep a real close eye on the internal conditions when running that many fans.


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## fullmonti

It looks like it might be a while till I get the lights. I think I'll go ahead & get the doors in so I can start testing some of these things. I knew I'd probably have to make many adjustments to the various systems. I once had a large reef tank that took awhile to get tweaked. Then it ran smoothly.

Really like the idea of alternating timers on the fans. 

Thanks


----------



## frogparty

Gotta agree. Maybe 2 fans.... but 6 is a lot, your anoles will be learning how to windsurf.


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## VivNoob

Looks Great! Makes me want to revamp my setup


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## wimvanvelzen

Compared to the real world there is very little wind in most of our tanks. In nature one can often see the tree branches bending and old leafs shaken out by the wind.

When imitating a canopy or open part of the jungle, a bit of wind doesn't hurt. To get it more natural I would suggest to get the wind a bit more in one direction, although that is not really doable in a enclosure link our tanks...


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## Adam R

fullmonti said:


> When I have talked to any of the orchid people about growing orchid in a paludarium, the first thing they say is "your going to need really good air movement". Also I have no vents under the doors because most of the time I will be looking at this seated & didn't want to be looking right at a vent. So most of the fans are pointed at the doors & one at the end panel to keep them clear. Also these are very quite fans that only put out 74 CFM. They will all be on a little controller from the manufacturer, so they can be dialed down if needed.
> 
> I may well have more than is needed, if so they come out real easy.


i agree with everyone else, you man have overdone it. unless you want to put all the fans on a regulator and run them at very low speed you will have an excess of airflow. 

if you want to really test your airflow/circulation, seal it all up and run a fogger inside until the tank is filled with fog. then run one fan until the fog dissipates, then repeat with 2, then try all your fans. with the tank filled with fog you will briefly be able to see your circulation. ive seen gimm do this on his 150gallon and 2 fans did the job well


----------



## fullmonti

If you do the math, this tank is 374 gallons. So if 2 fans was good on a 150 & the 150 had vents to help keep the glass clear, then 6 fans don't really seem to be all that much more. I really wouldn't mind if there was a bit of a breeze in there as well. This is pretty much how I came up with this many fans. Just my best guess.

I'm going to order the glass for the doors tomorrow. I will let you all know how it works out. 

Thanks for all the thoughts on this. It always helps.
Jim


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## fullmonti

Grouts cured & sealed the underwater parts with epoxy. I knew the epoxy would be glossy but it was worse than I thought, so ended up steel wooling them. Still a tiny bit glossy but livable.

Installed the first of the net pots & fill gaps with GS. 




Higher view of the pots

I had originally planed to silicone Hygolon over the GS & in the deep groves in the rocks so moss & the like would grow. Now that I'm looking at it all, I think it being such odd shapes & curves the Hygolon would be hard to fit & probably be a PIS to do. 

I think I'm remembering correctly that you can cover these type areas with silicone & then press coconut fiber and or other substrate type material into the silicone so moss & the like can grow in these areas? Any insight into this would be appreciated.

Still researching the lights but have the misting system in.

About it for now
Jim


----------



## corey.chadwick.14

Amazing!! You have created a beautiful work of art already. I am chomping at the bit to see more. Keep up the great work!!!


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## Alexmenke92

fullmonti said:


> When I have talked to any of the orchid people about growing orchid in a paludarium, the first thing they say is "your going to need really good air movement". Also I have no vents under the doors because most of the time I will be looking at this seated & didn't want to be looking right at a vent. So most of the fans are pointed at the doors & one at the end panel to keep them clear. Also these are very quite fans that only put out 74 CFM. They will all be on a little controller from the manufacturer, so they can be dialed down if needed.
> 
> I may well have more than is needed, if so they come out real easy.


What kind of orchids are you looking to get? In all honesty, there are a lot of genera that do fine with little air movement.


----------



## fullmonti

I have kind of a wish list but the only thing they have in common is they can or should be stick mounted. It will mostly be determined by what I can find at a reasonable price. I'd rather, if possible have enough of a given thing to be able to keep just about any thing. It seems worth a extra fan or two to not have to worry about it.

I know I have probably done a little more than necessary in several areas. I have found it easier to turn something down or off than trying to add more of that thing after the fact.


----------



## buddah

This looks great looking forward to the final planted viv.


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks, me too. No telling how long that may be though


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## hypostatic

fullmonti said:


> And a over all shot, just because
> 
> 
> 
> I really like the overall look. I can just see it full of plants & some tree frogs & anoles jumping around.


This is coming along great! I remember seeing another build on DB where the viv was part of a wall that sticks out -- it looks really cool and seamless.

What kind of frogs and anoles are you sticking in there? If it were me, I'd try to get some ghost tree frogs, they look super cool:


----------



## FroggyKnight

I love those eyes!!! Is that a readily available species? I've seen pics of them in the past and I wouldn't mind getting some

John


----------



## hypostatic

I think I remember that UE might be working with them, but I'm not sure


----------



## frogparty

As far as I know, Centrolene ilex is not available in the USA hobby


----------



## hamz77

be carful not to get silicone on that fake rock. Anyways this is a wonderful build and i can easily say it is one of my favorites. Keep up the good work and please post more pics too


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## fullmonti

Hey Hypostatic

My first plan was small tree frogs. As far as I know they are all nocturnal & started asking around about frogs that didn't need much land like tree frogs but was active in day time. Zach at Josh's frogs told me Santa Isabels would climb all over that & had great personalities. So my plan now is green Anoles & Santa Isabels, then if I come across any cool little tree frogs them too. I think there would be plenty of room & tree frogs being active at night & dart frogs in the day they should hardly get in each others way.

My business is so bad I will never be able to justify any of the expensive rare critters that are so cool.


----------



## gturmindright

SIs are awesome. Most of my experience are with those. First frog for me. Always enjoyed them. They are fun.


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## BlackFrogExotics

Jim the tank looks amazing my friend. Can't wait to see the finished product. 

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


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## DanConnor

Jim, could you talk a bit about how you put the glass together? It looks like on the bottom the long side is outside the ends, and a double track for thinner glass is on top of that. Will you have cross braces at the top? What thickness glass did you use?

I'd like to make a biggish enclosure out of glass- I made a 48 x 48 x 24 out of 1/2 cast acrylic once... not going to repeat that mistake.


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## fullmonti

BlackFrogExotics said:


> Jim the tank looks amazing my friend. Can't wait to see the finished product.
> 
> Thanks, little by little it coming
> 
> Wouldn't mind stopping by your place some time, or if there is ever a get-together up there. Be nice to see in person how others are doing things. I can't find any one doing any of this in Chattanooga, kinda lonely.
> 
> Jim


----------



## BlackFrogExotics

fullmonti said:


> BlackFrogExotics said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jim the tank looks amazing my friend. Can't wait to see the finished product.
> 
> Thanks, little by little it coming
> 
> Wouldn't mind stopping by your place some time, or if there is ever a get-together up there. Be nice to see in person how others are doing things. I can't find any one doing any of this in Chattanooga, kinda lonely.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to call man anytime. Ill be coming through in a month or so to pickb up some banded luecs. Ill give you a call.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


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## fullmonti

DanConnor said:


> Jim, could you talk a bit about how you put the glass together? It looks like on the bottom the long side is outside the ends, and a double track for thinner glass is on top of that. Will you have cross braces at the top? What thickness glass did you use?
> 
> I'd like to make a biggish enclosure out of glass- I made a 48 x 48 x 24 out of 1/2 cast acrylic once... not going to repeat that mistake.


The lower sides are 1/2" & they sit inside the ends, the ends are 3/8" & they all sit on the bottom. The track is on 1/4"X1" glass siliconed to the edges top & bottom & the one end. The top sides are 3/8" with 1/4" piece glued to it at a 90 degree angle, they sit on top of the ends. No cross brace is needed except for a 1/4X4" piece at each end. The doors (not ever shown yet) are 1/4".

I'll have to post a photo of the end that goes inside the wall of the house. There's one on page 2, but a lot has been done since then.

Not saying this is the right or best way, first tank I ever built.


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## fullmonti

Last major piece of equipment, just ordered lights!!! Could only afford 2 (really needed/wanted 4) 48" high output Build My LED fixtures with 45degree optics. Also found a close out sale on a 4 tube 36" T5 fixture, plus the 2 48" 2tube T5 fixtures I already had.

It was a little painful but done now!

May sound like a lot of light but it's a lot of tank & I doubt it will be as much as I planed or hoped for. What ever it is I'll just get what plants will be happy with that amount of light.


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## DanConnor

> I'll have to post a photo of the end that goes inside the wall of the house. There's one on page 2, but a lot has been done since then.


I'm sorry to ask what I'm sure is a dumb question, but if the sides are inside the ends, how will you slide on the doors?


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## fullmonti

The doors just slide right up to & butt into the ends. It's a long story but the end that sticks out into the room is perfectly square, that's why there is no track on that end. The other end is off square just a tiny bit, So I put track on that end so you wouldn't see any gap, also so bugs couldn't get out if the gap was big enough.

If you'd like PM me your phone # & I'll call & give the long story.


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## BlackFrogExotics

Jim sounds like I need to come see you. Where do you get your glass

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

Just a local glass shop Hubbch glass. Not cheap but they are very nice & will try do any thing they can to help. I had a couple pieces I ended up not using & ask if I could get a cutter so I could cut them for small braces. Lady at the counter just said go on back & I talked to the head cutter & he gave me one & a quick lesson, no charge. 

Like I said pretty sure it's retail prices.


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## BlackFrogExotics

Nice. Cheapest I've seen was 3 dollars a square foot. But they're in Dickson, tn.

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## asunderco

Hey Jim,

Just wanted to say I've enjoyed your build so far! Can't wait to see the finished tank! I also went with BML for my lighting fixtures. I have two 18", one "Custom Spectrum" and one "Iwagumi Spectrum" on my 40 gal breeder vertical, plants are growing like crazy! So I'm sure you'll be happy with yours.

Cheers


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## fullmonti

Thanks, always good to hear when something works as expected or better.
Really looking forward to mine getting here.

Looks like funds may be a little tight for awhile. So unless something unexpected & good happens plants & critters may be a slow coming. But then this whole process hasn't been a quick one either.


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## pet-teez

Holymotherof!
Ok, so I just read through all 16 pages of this thread and my mind is blownnnnn! I'm super excited to see updates.
The rockwork turned out really boss! Also, I can't remember if anyone responded, yes you can silicone over that spray foam and add a substrate to it, that would kind of make it look like rock sticking out of a dirt side.

I hate to be a booger but do you have a thread anywhere for the tank that used to be there? I nearly died when I saw it, I love the level changes on the base of it and... *sighs*


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## fullmonti

Thanks!

Update coming soon, got the lights worked out & in, silicone&dirt done & doing a little trim work & painting before putting the water in. Most of which was made harder by being a adaptation as a posed to new construction. But I can finally see light at the end of this tunnel.


Discus thread link 180 Reef to planted Discus tank


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## Shaggy2061

fullmonti said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Update coming soon, got the lights worked out & in, silicone&dirt done & doing a little trim work & painting before putting the water in. Most of which was made harder by being a adaptation as a posed to new construction. But I can finally see light at the end of this tunnel.
> 
> 
> Discus thread link 180 Reef to planted Discus tank


Man i can not wait to see this thing planted it will be amazing.


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## Limitedjive

Looking forward to the update Jim, goin to be an awesome setup. This one reminded me of your old fresh water tank and a little of your new paludarium.


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## fullmonti

Thanks all

Lights are all in, fans & misting tuning in, will have to have the fans off when misting, they suck the mist up into them selfs (not good!). Still painting trim. Water was filled last weekend but I guess the branch ends that are in the water are leaching a bit. The water keeps getting a little cloudy & yellowish brown. I soaked the stump for at least a month. I've been doing a 30% water change every day & still turning a bit. I just posted a new thread asking if this would be harmful to fish or not. 

Anyway as soon as I get the water cleared up and or the trim painted & in I'll be taking more pix. 

Starting to get excited that this may actually have a little life in it soon!


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## jon57

Hi Jim,

Firstly looking amazing can't wait till its finished and grown in, I suspect it will be spectacular.

For the GS I personally have found using gorilla glue and then pressing peat into works really well. From an aesthetics point of view it would look a lot like soil, and would IMO look good between the rocks. I have also had great success with moss mix applied to peat covered GS, as long as it is kept moist and receives high levels of light. 

If you want to check out my thread for pics here you go http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/144698-first-tank-4-months.html . Hope that helps.

Cheers
Jon


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## fullmonti

Finally got the trim done & in, water is mostly cleared up. So got some new pix!


The whole living room


living room side


Kitchen side


Kitchen end view


living room end view




The rock end

I have a hand full of plants I got at a local nursery & going to pickup some fish tomorrow, more photos when they're all in. Just order six broms, be about a week before I get them.

Question?

The hood is not air tight, so there is a good bit of air exchange going on. So the humidity goes down to about 60% a couple hours after a misting. Back up to about 80% right after misting. IS 60% enough humidity for the frogs & orchids??? I can mist one minute every two hours when the lights are on & run the fans for an hour & then off an hour & keeps the humidity between 70% & 80% but things may never dry much like that. Thoughts???

Guess it's normal for the temp to go down a little after misting. Goes from 80 down to 75-77. I'm not running the basking light yet, so will probably be a bit higher then.

It's is oh so very nice to finally have this looking like it's finally coming together!


Almost forgot, the Build My LED lights are fabulous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very Bright, small, well built & easy to install AND great customer service!


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## hypostatic

oh wow that looks great! also you have a beautiful home


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## myersboy6

Agree! I like the architecture in your home. That tank looks amazing! 

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## fullmonti

Thanks, we actually live in what was a horse boarding barn. 



There was a small caretakers apt up stairs (500 sq ft). I enclosed/fished out some extra space to add the living room & fish tank a few years ago. We converted the stalls for my shop & storage, horse tack room & one day (I hope) a pool table.


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## rigel10

I always wondered how it is to live in a wooden house. I love your living room, your stove, your palu... Everything nice!


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## mollbern

Yeah, it's all about wood-fired stoves! 

Seriously, that is one awesome awesome hardscape. 

And damn, crystal-clear photography makes everything seriously POP all the more.


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## dsaundry

Looks real nice, following


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## Standby Diver

Your house looks like it smells of rich mahogany. Seriously though looks good. 

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## fullmonti

Thank You all, glad I included the full room photo.

It's seems funny so many think our place looks nice. It really is just a pole barn with metal siding. The living room is by far the nicest part, other than it's in a really nice neighborhood & setting.


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## hypostatic

fullmonti said:


> The hood is not air tight, so there is a good bit of air exchange going on. So the humidity goes down to about 60% a couple hours after a misting. Back up to about 80% right after misting. IS 60% enough humidity for the frogs & orchids??? I can mist one minute every two hours when the lights are on & run the fans for an hour & then off an hour & keeps the humidity between 70% & 80% but things may never dry much like that. Thoughts???
> 
> Guess it's normal for the temp to go down a little after misting. Goes from 80 down to 75-77. I'm not running the basking light yet, so will probably be a bit higher then.


The misting sounds about right for the frogs. But you have a big water feature that should be supplying PLENTY of humidity also. Would the frogs be able to access the water? If the frogs are getting wet directly every 2 hours I wouldn't worry about it.

As far as the orchids..... MAYBE.
It really depends on the species. Some like it almost wet, and some like it pretty dry. Do you know what you wanna add in there?


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## fullmonti

Yes I've had months to research orchids while building this beast. I have a pretty long list of the ones that others have said they have grown in terrariums. 

I feel a little better about the too wet & too dry thing now. I ran the fans all last night & with out the lights on the humidity stayed at 74% all night. That should give the orchids a chance to dry a little & not be to dry for the frogs while sleeping. I think.


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## hypostatic

Oh, and having a good layer of leaf litter is important for this purpose. Not only does it give the frogs a place to hide and hunt, but it serves as a place where the frogs can regulate their moisture, since it's always really humid in the leaf litter. Oh, and once you put the substrate and leaf litter in the humidity should stay more consistent as well


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## fullmonti

This set up will literally have no substrate at all. There is only water, rock & wood. That's why I decided to get anthonyi frogs because I was told they will climb all over the tank kinda like tree frogs but be active during the day. 

Along the same line of thought as the leaf liter, I think when there is some plants & sphagnum moss in the tank the humidity will stay higher as well.

Got the plants I got locally in the tank. I'm thinking some will think a couple of them are a really good idea or really dumb. I'l get some pix tonight or tomorrow.


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## hypostatic

OH. Ummmm, so is this, in the picture, how your tank will be set up? Are you gonna have a land feature?


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## fullmonti

No land at all. There are 10 or 11 imbedded pots in the rocks that will have plants & ABG mix, but that is it. 

Yes the frogs will have several places they can get in & out of the water easily. I knew this from the start & that's why I planed on tree frogs at first but the anthonyi frogs will be sleeping the same time I do (much better).


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## hypostatic

I do believe that those are a primarily terrestrial species that sends the majority of it's time in the leaf litter. If this is the case, I think they might be ill-suited for this tank as it is designed currently. I'd ask some anthonyi keepers on the boards if I were you before purchasing any frogs if I were you, for some peace of mind on the matter.


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## Frog pool13

I currently keep 2 groups of Anthonyi, I have noticed that even though they are considered terrestrial they do quite a bit of climbing in the tanks I have them set up in, my only worry would be the water, if one was high among the wood and fell in I would think it may have some issues getting onto the land.


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## fullmonti

If you look close at this photo there is a ledge they can swim up on & get out easy. Plus some branches that come out of the water at an angle & I'm home a lot to keep an eye out for trouble. I'm not sure if they could climb the rock though, will watch for that.



If they seem to have trouble with this set up I can always go back to the tree frog plan. I really hope the Anthonyi like this home, I like them a lot.


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## fieldnstream

Even with the ledges, there's still very little usable space. It's true that anthonyi will utilize vertical space, but they are gonna need secure nooks. I'd strongly consider expanding the land area somehow. Good luck!


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## Frog pool13

Possibly what you could do is make some more smaller foam rocks and attach then at the water level around the outside with suction cups, just so if they were to fall in the water there would be more space to get out.


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## fullmonti

The top of the stump & branches around it will be covered with plants, six broms & others. I had always envisioned that area as a large island for them. I had not planed getting any frogs till then. If it doesn't look like a good home for them then I can always go to plan B.

It's way pass the time of expanding the land area now.

Thanks for the input every one.
Jim


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## Frog pool13

I think as long as there is enough foliage to make a canopy throughout the branches it will be fine, just try to make as much space for them with strategic plant placement. Best of luck


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## hypostatic

Well, it would still be really nice for a lot of tree frogs. Actually, I think it would be perfect for breeding some of them what only breed above bodies of water.


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## fullmonti

Some quick iPhone photos of the few plants so far.





The roots of the mini peace lily are in the water. Zach at Josh's Frogs told me about planting them like this. He said fish like the roots in the water & reed frogs like to sleep on the underside of their leafs. The wire ties are temporary, if it does well I'll replace it with fishing line.







The one on top is a spiral rush. Should do well, it said it like wet conditions.



This is the weird one I tried. black or purple Mondo Grass. The best nursery in town had what they called a string garden, which was different plants bare rooted & rapped in a sphagnum ball & hung up with string. So thought I'd try more or less the same thing, only not a ball of sphagnum I packed a space between two branches. I really like the black leafs, looks kinda like a odd air plant.

Like it, or too weird?


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## skarasek

> Like it, or too weird?


Let's see it in context with the rest of the tank!


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## rigel10

I would like to know the list of plants, especially these two in the pic


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## fullmonti

Here's a iphone FTS, not the best but enough to see what the mondo grass looks like.



Black Mondo grass is Ophiopogon planiscapus Nigrescens
Corkscrew Rush is Juncus effusus Spiralis
The gold, orange & greenish one (looks like a clover) is a kind of a Oxalis (all the label said)

The rest are very common

Rabbit's foot fern
Peace Lily Sweet Chico (dwarf)
Maidenhair fern (name unknown)


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## rigel10

Thanks. I did not know this plants.


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## skarasek

I think the Mondo looks neat, it's something different for sure!


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## Judy S

I use a lot of black mondo in my gardens to highlight the greys....but they may not like where you have them long term--prefer a bit of shade...so I don't know if they'll like where you have them...they have interesting black seed pods as well....oh, and they can get big as well...so have a place to transplant them if necessary...


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## fullmonti

Definitely a total experiment. I put them high because it said they like full sun to part shade. Where they are is about like a bright overcast day, so doubt it will be too much light. I hope they won't grow too big (assuming they grow at all). 

If I need more one of our neighbors said when she saw this, that she had some in her garden too.

Speaking of light I really can't say too much good about the Build My LED lights. There is nothing about them I don't like! Other than like all LED lights I wish they cost less.


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## skanderson

i think the golden plant is oxalis. i would pull that out fast unless you want to be pulling it out of everywhere for the rest of time. it is a massively invasive seeding weed. if you want something else with that color consider one of the golden selangias.


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## fullmonti

Oh crap, it is oxalis & I never heard that before. Thanks

What about Oxalis regnelii "Francis, I was planing on getting one of those too???


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## fullmonti

Went to the orchid show in Asheville NC last weekend. It was really a little to soon to get orchids but I just couldn't resist.





















Starting to look lived in. Broms. should be here tomorrow or the next day. They should fill the big space on top of the stump. 

I ordered a fogger to keep the humidity up. Today when I went to plug it in I saw it had a european plug on the end of the cord, CRAP! Vender hasn't gotten back to me yet as to what they can do about it.


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## hypostatic

Very nice, and good orchid selection



fullmonti said:


> Went to the orchid show in Asheville NC last weekend. It was really a little to soon to get orchids but I just couldn't resist


I know the feeling haha


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## BlackFrogExotics

Love the orchids jim. Where did you get your wood.

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## fullmonti

Thanks guys

Wood came from
Manzanita Burlworks - Individual Aquarium Wood and Driftwood Pieces
check the site from time to time for new pieces put up. If your looking for something in particular ask him, he might have it.


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## rabu92

Nice orchids. I really like the grassy one, the fifth pic.


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## yellow dart frog man

A freshwater stingray would look sweet in that setup


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## fullmonti

The grassy looking orchid is a hybrid that gets small dark purple flowers, close in.

Stingrays are interesting fish. I'm going to try & not put any fish in here that would eat tads. I'm pretty sure they would eat anything on the bottom.


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## hypostatic

So that would be a no to archer fish?


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## fullmonti

I had really wanted to have some of them. But I talked to a guy who had them & he said they are very aggressive eaters & would even try to knock small frogs off leafs. 

I'm not planing on taking tads out of the tank to grow. I would like to be able to see at least some make it & climb out of the water & grow up all in the tank. So the fish selection possibilities has narrowed considerably.

I thinking hatchet fish because they will eat any flies that fall in the water, small tetras, dwarf gouramis & maybe mollies because my wife likes the live babies (she also ask about guppies but I can't do guppies!) & they eat hair algae although I hope not to have any hair algae but we all know how that goes. 

I had also planed on rope fish but I think they would also eat any meaty thing near the bottom so have given up on them too.


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## hypostatic

Oh, have you decided on what frogs you're gonna put in there? I've heard pacific chorus frogs can be pretty active during the daytime


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## fullmonti

Anthonyi, I've been told they will climb all over much like tree frogs but active all day.


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## gturmindright

The males climb all over the place so they can call all day from high spots. When mine aren't calling I know they are either dead or something good is happening.


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## fullmonti

I like it!

Zach at Josh's frogs has always been very helpful, he originally suggested them for what I was looking for.


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## rigel10

I love my anthonyi "Highland". Great choice, IMO!


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## fullmonti

I'm really looking forward to having them in the tank!

Next thing I'm going to get is some moss that will grow on the branches (that won't get to shaggy) so the frogs will be better able to climb around.


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## fullmonti

Finally got some new snaps



As you can see got some new plants



Remember I said I wanted the top of the stump to be a big island of plants for the frogs? It's shaping up that way!



Got some plants for the water section



I like Anubias coffeefolias



When some of the others get bigger they will grow out of the water like this one, I like.

That's it for now


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## Hlabov

What to say... A very impressive and motivational build! Can't wait to see when it's gonna be mossy and greeny


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## Rx-Darts

One of my favorite builds to date  great job!


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## hypostatic

looking good!


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## fullmonti

Thank you all

I have to say, there's no way I could have done it with out this forum & all the knowledge
& experience shared here.

I was never sure if everything was going to be happy in this tank, being my first. I am happy to say, so far all plants above & below the water line are doing well. There is new roots & the start of new leafs on all the orchids. Going to have to mist a little bit more to keep the moss happy but it is doing pretty good even now.

I had forgotten how much a school of neons can crap! A sure sign they are happy. When budget allows I'll get some more fish & first frogs.


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## lookitsadam

Holy cow! This is amazing! Love all the colors, especially in the broms on top of the stump


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## rigel10

I have found neons rather delicate. For years I had petitellas (or Hemigrammus bleheri) and cardinals (axelrodi). They are stunning in aquarium!


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## toksyn

Really great work! I love the aquatic area!

Just a word of caution though, regarding the Anubias. I don't know if you have experience growing them already, but they don't tend to like being planted in the substrate. Some people have had better luck with that approach but it's the most surefire way for me to rot them.

Paracheirodon simulans (green neon tetra) would be a very neat alternative to your standard neons, too.


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## fullmonti

I grew some in my discus tank. I know they don't like to be very deep in substrate. Mostly they grow slow & prone to algae growing on them, but like them the most. Most of these are on the wood, couple of the tall growers are planted in the sand. Never had the tall ones before, let you know how they do.

Will look for the green neon, never seen them before.


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## JCK

An awe inspiring build.

I am breeding L. williamsi in a group of 2.4 your viv is certainly big enough to support a similar sized, if not even bigger group. What I noticed is that you definitely need a at least 2 females per male, since otherwise the males will constantly bother the females and they will soon die of stress. I have tried it two times to keep 1.1 and both times the I barely maneged to seperate the females before the died. The eggs hatch in the tank and the parents don't predate on the hatchlings, I let them grow in there for a few months. 

I also keep various Gonatodes species with my darts they are more shy than the williamsi, but are a better fit if you go for a Middle-/Southamerca build.

Another option would be a small breed of Anoles. I keep Anolis pogus and A. sabanus. Both excellent active and easy to breed species for a big mixed species tank.

Regarding the frogs, I would go for Ranitomeya spec. (ventrimaculata, amazonica, benedicta etc.) since they stay in the branches most of the time. You should add some more bromeliads for them, though. A small species of Treefrog would fit as well for example Dendropsophus ebracatta/leucophylatta, or if you like their calls some small Eleutherodactylus spec.

Regarding the waterfeature, I'd go with the neons (though I prefer the red axelrodi) and a couple of hatchetfish (Carnegiella strigata) to prey on the drowning fruitflies. Maybe some shrimps as well.


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## fullmonti

I have just recently come to realize my plan to get anthonyi frogs needs to be changed. 
I have been tweaking the misting & lighting schedule etc. & wasn't paying to much attention to the temperature. Looks like the lowest high temp I will be able to get is 80 up to 82. So looks like leucoments being more high temperature tolerant may be a better fit. I have read & been told they too like & will climb around quite well & wont mind the 80 degrees in the afternoon.

JCK I think some of the animals you mentioned are not normally available here. I grew up in Florida where green anoles run free every where, so after the frogs get established I had planed to get a trio of green anoles (that would be like being back home, only better). I had planed on hatchetfish just for the reason you mentioned.


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## JCK

My leucs climb a lot, but most of the time they are terrestial, I think Ranitomeya would be a better fit for your tank, especially species like venrimaculatus or amazonica that aren't that territoral. They raise their tads in the bromeliads, so you won't have to fear for fish predation. I don't know if they are available in the states, but another cool addition would be a cryptic species like Mannophryne (former Colosthetus) which live near streams and bathe regulary.
I think some Gonatodes species (like albigularis fuscus) have been introduced in Florida as well, maybe you could go hunting for them in case you visit some friends/relatives there). Anolis caroliensis is of course an option (though the males get relatively big and could be be a danger for froglets) Anolis sagrei (brown bahama anoli) is a bit smaller and common in florida as well.

I really love hatchetfish and they are a perfect paludarium species since they often jump and "fly" out of the water, plus they primarily feed on insects on the watersurface.


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## jimmy rustles

Dont Know what how humid your tank is, other people might know other options, but with higher humidity you might prefer anolis of the roquet group. Do you have soil in there where eggs could be laid?

Gesendet von meinem ST27i mit Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

The humidity is 80-90% no soil just mossy areas. The real issue is the temperature. Too hot for many frogs, not enough day/night difference for some plants.

I do like green anoles & they are readily available & don't cost a lot, win win.

I am working on a way to lower the temp, to early to tell if it will workout.


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## jimmy rustles

I dont have a paludarium or fishtank myself, so i have no experience with Tanks with such a high humidity, but both, l williamsi and Green and Brown anolis are usually kept around 50-70% i dont know if such a high humidity on a Constant and ongoing Basis might lead to respiratory Infekts or other Problems, please dont forget to research properly if the conditions are tolerable. Now another question for an anole Specialist would be if the Lack of Substrate is a Problem for the female anoles and might Cause them. to be eggbound.In contrast to the roquet Group Green anoles have to be overwintered, dont forget that.
Sorry for the autocorrect mistakes, the Grammar on this post Looks horrible. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

Lizards were always going to be added last, so lots of time for consideration. The UV heat lamp for them is the single biggest heat source, so may need to forgo lizards to eliminate the extra heat anyway. It will depend on if I can get the temp down for sure.

I have heard concern for high humidity & anoles, but never understood it. They run wild in Florida & the humidity is usually 80-90%. The top branches in my tank get less misting & dry out quickly. I'm sure they would like that high vantage point & would hangout up there. There is some soil on top of the rock wall where the plants are, but not a lot.


----------



## jimmy rustles

fullmonti said:


> Lizards were always going to be added last, so lots of time for consideration. The UV heat lamp for them is the single biggest heat source, so may need to forgo lizards to eliminate the extra heat anyway. It will depend on if I can get the temp down for sure.
> 
> I have heard concern for high humidity & anoles, but never understood it. They run wild in Florida & the humidity is usually 80-90%. The top branches in my tank get less misting & dry out quickly. I'm sure they would like that high vantage point & would hangout up there. There is some soil on top of the rock wall where the plants are, but not a lot.


as with geckos, it depends on the species, some like it more humid, some less, just gotta look into it. Now, as i said, i dont have any experience with higher humidity in my vivs, so i cant comment too much on whats not working, i can just say that those species mentioned usually have it a tad bit drier and that there are other anoles or phelsumas/geckos, takydromus, Holaspis (guentheri) that are usually suggested when sb looks for species with higher humidity. But hey, i might worry too much, just do some research and ask the right people


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## JCK

Concerning the lack of substrate, my Anolis pogus and sabanus both have a bit of substrate in the tanks, but they always lay their eggs in the mossy areas around the broms...

Considering the humidity, if you install a spot somewhere near the upper branches, you will automatically have a lower humidity around there. A lot of people that keep small phelsuma with their frogs simply leave the upper reaches of their vertical tanks free of dense foliage and mainly use cork instead of xaxim or peat for the upper background. This in addition with a basking spot will suffice for a good microclimate for the reptiles.


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## fullmonti

Good info, thanks!

I had kinda set the tank up that way just for the lizards. The two highest branches have very little on them & they are right under the basking bulb. Warmer & drier up there. Still going to be a while before the tank will be ready for them, I want the frogs to get established first. 

Speaking of frogs I think I have figured out a way to lower the temp in the tank. I was going to get the frogs this week but will wait now till I see how the temp thing works out. If I do get the temp down I'll be going back to the Anthonyi's, I really had my heart set on them anyway. Some of the plants will like it cooler at night too.

Assuming the cooling plan works I'll post it when done.

Jim


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## fullmonti

Under the heading of be careful what you ask for. You could't see them in photos from before, but I planted three water lily bulbs & wanted them to pretty much cover their corner. 

Well



I have moved three plants that were being shaded out & the lilies are still putting out more pads. When I finally get the hatchet fish they will love it!

I have two pitcher plant coming & in the process of building a cooling system. Not having unlimited funds the new fish are on hold. Will post pix of pitcher plants & cooling system when in place.


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## Giga

Dude I didn't like all those branches at first but now, this is epic


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## fullmonti

Thanks, I was going to ask if those who didn't like the branches had reconsidered at all. It's starting to look like what I hoped it would.


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## rigel10

I agree. In the last few pages I expressed some doubt about the placement of the branches, but now, as Giga says, it is epic.


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## fullmonti

Well I decided between orchids & pitcher plants it would be worth wild to get more of a temperature drop at night. When I found the part I was looking for, I decided to go ahead & build a cooling system.



I already had a chiller, tank & pump so when I found this radiator Seemed time to go for it. It is made by Hydro Innovations & called Ice Box 8" size.



Found this fan made to go in ducts, the 8" size fit perfect. Got it from Northline Express

From here on out I need to add, had I planed this from the start it would be much more compact, simple & less Sanford & son looking. Since it is an add on after the fact & not enough room to put it right on the tank now, it is what it is.



There is a 6" size radiator which would be all I'd ever need for this tank but I found a place that I could get the 8" for the 6" price. I figured I'd get the bigger one so if I wanted to add another tank I could cool it with the same system, just split off another duct add a fan & thermostat. I didn't have room for 8" or even a 6" duct, so I just used dryer vent duct.



I had this 15gal tank & wrapped it with foam to help hold temp better. The chiller is actually just out of the room to the left.



This is the duct going into the tank & the return. Some day I may attempt to straighten all the messy wirers, probably not. I hate the mess but it's easy to ignore it because it is in the back room.

In a day or two I'll get some photos of the plants, some new some grown a good bit.


----------



## fullmonti

Got up this morning & found water dripping out of the radiator unit. Not sure if there is a leak or a lot of condensation build up, will have to test that. If there's no leak & it's just condensation I may put the whole rig in a insulated box to stop the condensation. Probably should have done that in the first place, yet another learning curve. 

Also I think the transition box I made to go from 8" to 4" & 90 degree angle is losing a bunch of air pressure. Searched & found a 8" to 4" cone duct reducer, will try that & see if air flow is better. The fan is a 200 cfm so should be enough air flow if I get it right. The temp only went down to 70 over night. I put a thermometer in front of the out flow & that air seems to be only about five degrees warmer than the water temperature going through the radiator. So good cool air just not enough of it reaching the tank. 

Another thing, the humidity at night has always stayed around 80%. with the cooling fan/system running it seems to drop the humidity some. I guess that's normal?


----------



## rabu92

If this is a closed circuit, I'm pretty sure you won't be able to stop the condensation. Since this is a tropical tank, it has high humidity. When you drop the temperature of that humid air it won't be able to hold as much water. Hence it removes the water by condensation. 
So I think you should either make something to capture and store the condensed water or otherwise move the cooling box above the tank level and let the water run back into the tank via the tubing.


----------



## fullmonti

Yes I had pretty much come to the same conclusion. 70 degree (or more) air hits 50 degree metal surface, has to equal condensation. Had started thinking what the best way to drain the thing would be. Thanks for reinforcing that thought. That would also explain why the humidity in the tank decreased.

The other problem of not enough air flow. I just got back from Lowe's with some duct reducers & a 8" 90. Hope that will be a big improvement over my square box transition.


----------



## hypostatic

I think a more efficient way of cooling the whole tank would be to use an aquarium chiller to cool the water feature, as this is where most of the heat energy is trapped.


----------



## fullmonti

I thought about that, but then you couldn't keep tropical fish or tropical aquatic plants. Even thought about Axoltls but they would eat tadpoles & not as many plants to choice from. Just have to deal with it I guess.


----------



## hypostatic

Ah, good point.

Ok, WHAT IF, you misted with cooled water...?


----------



## fullmonti

I've got the day time temp were it needs to be, trying to get the night temp down. I was told early on orchid don't like to have standing water on them at night. So I mist twice during the day & let things dry a bit before lights out. Not wild about this kind of system but wanted something that would run by it's self once set up. This seemed the best option I could find for night temp drop.


----------



## Giga

you could buy a small portable AC unit for the room and program it to go lower at night. This is what I did and just cool the room rather then some crazy contraption I had in mind. Only cost around 280$ for a portable programmable ac unit. this way all my tank stay at a nice 72-75 during the day and about 68 at night


----------



## fullmonti

My tank is kind of like a room divider between the living room & kitchen dinning room, so would have to lower the temp in more or less the whole house. Plus the water in the tank is 75 so the room would have to be less than 68 to overcome the water temp. But were did you find a AC unit that cheap? Maybe could work on just the tank.


----------



## Giga

they where have a sale at home depot so I couldn't help myself


----------



## fullmonti

Can't pass up a good sale.

Another setback, the cooling system fan quit working the second night. Been talking with the dealer & manufacturer & think the radiator may be making to much resistance for that motor (just .5 amp motor). Probably have to use a fan with a stronger motor.


----------



## fullmonti

Cooling system still not up yet. Car trouble so no money for new fan yet.

Do have new pix of plants



New pitcher plant, with a lot of help from several carnivores plant people. It's a dwarf maxima. Every one said they are smaller & don't need as cold a temp at night. When I got it about a month ago it had one pitcher open & one about half way grown. The nice pitch on the left has grown new since it's been here & another little one on the other side that gets bigger ever day. The plan is as it grows & starts to vine I will train it to vine on the branches at the top of the tank.



Another carnivorous plant, a Cephalotus. Doesn't vine but makes pitchers that rest on the moss & stays pretty small.



From what I understand, if your orchids bloom in your tank they are happy. I'm happy they are happy.





Not sure how long orchid roots will grow?



New little guy, first day in the tank.



Last but not least. Love this weird begonia

All for now
Jim


----------



## FroggyKnight

That begonia is AWESOME!!! I love both the color and shape of the leaves. Do you have the name of it?

John


----------



## fullmonti

begonia amphioxus Seems to like a terrarium, it only had 2 or 3 leafs about six weeks ago.


----------



## bruhmelioid

Awesome enclosure, and awesome plants! Can't wait to see it completely stocked and cycling!


----------



## Dendrobait

I think anthonyi are more temperature tolerant than they are given credit for usually. My tank has been hitting the low 80's and they are still cranking out tons of tadpoles.


----------



## fullmonti

How long have they been in those temps? It would be nice if they would be happy even if the temp hits 81 or 82 for a 2-3 hours a day.


----------



## Dendrobait

I've had the group for a few months. I don't think you will have a problem at all-especially if you can drop the night temps. One thing I have observed is that it seems they aren't producing too many fertile eggs-I generally see batches of 5-10 tadpoles on the males back which is a much smaller number than I see in the egg clutches. But they could also be eating them too. I have only had one clutch laid out in the open and it is too early to determine how many are good. 

I am keeping mine in a screen top cage-so that is more ventilation than most people provide. It is also a paludarium with constantly running water. You can see their tank in this forum actually. Healthy babies have begun crawling out of the water and those seem to like climbing to the top of the background

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...honyi-zaruma-buenaventura-biotope-update.html

btw. is that NEherp moss? Wonder how it will do? I have some of what appears to be the same type.


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks for the info! Your tank is looking good! I like your orchids, they look very happy. It may be a while longer before I can get my frogs, budget tight right now.

My moss is fern moss, got it on ebay from a member here. I have really good air movement too. Mist two times a day for four minutes each. Moss is doing great, except in one place & for some reason I have to also hand mist it to keep it alive.


----------



## rigel10

Maybe something has changed and you have added more emerged areas in the meantime, seeing terrestrial plants that you put in the viv, so I would like to see an updated FTS, please, because if I remember correctly there is too much water (really a lot) for any species of dart frog, IMHO.


----------



## fullmonti

The full tank photos on page six are pretty new & nothing has changed from there.

It is true the percentage of this tank that is more or less horizontal is pretty low. But the tank is so big the total amount of horizontal area is still more than most people have in a normal size tank with little to no water feature. Still I wouldn't put just any frogs in it. From all that I have been told & read the Anthonyi frogs climb a lot & would pretty much use every area in this tank that isn't water, and that is a good bit of space.


----------



## rigel10

I have got Epipedobates anthonyi "Highland" and I can tell you that males tend to occupy the highest spot, according to the hierarchy of the group, but my female climbs only for mating. This is my experience. 
In addition, epips love to hunt microfauna in the leaf litter, which is indispensable. 
Obviously, no one forbids you to put the frogs you want, but perhaps it would be best for your viv arboreal frogs, such as amazonicas. 
This is just my 2 cents.


----------



## fullmonti

I don't doubt your experience at all. Much of why I was planning on anthonyi frogs was based on talking with the folks at Josh's Frogs, a very well respected dealer. Zach there told me he had stocked a tank for someone very much like mine, little or no land just water with a tree & beaches & plants etc. When he checked on it months or maybe a year or so later there were dozens of frogs in it. They had thrived & multiplied.

I don't have leave litter but a lot of mossy areas. I haven't added any microfauna yet, but there are already lots of tiny bugs I'm guess that are spring tails? all over the tank.

All of this said I'll do some more checking on all this. I do not want to keep any animal in conditions they wont be happy & healthy in.

Thanks
Jim


----------



## rigel10

It seems very responsible what you say. I reported this I have written based on my experience, but if frogkeepers most experienced and quoted than me say the opposite, follow their advice and suggestions. I can tell you that anthonyi are great frogs and you certainly will not be disappointed by choosing them.


----------



## atticus22

Love that piece of wood!


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks, just lucky that I was looking for a large stump when he posted this one. Not sure if he has any more anything like this one.


----------



## fullmonti

Some update photos




FTSs

I got four new little orchids!





Can any one tell me if the leaves will get bigger than this? They are smaller than a dime right now.


another little one. This guy came in a 1" pot.


The pitcher plant grows like a weed! Can't wait for it to vine.

The one small pitcher it had when I got it & a half grown one not even open yet.




View from the back end of the tank to show how many pitcher this thing has grown.


Rabbit foot fern seems happy too.


That's it for now, have a good one.


----------



## rabu92

Nice, just yesterday I was thinking "I wonder how Jim's tank evolved"  I love those orchids, I really want to get some more orchids but I'm saving for frogs too. Both is too expensive, the dilemma is killing me 

Aren't you afraid the pitcher plant will trap dart frogs, it seems big enough for a frog or even a small lizard.


----------



## fullmonti

I read a lot & talked to several people about pitcher plants & frogs. Several people said their frogs lay their eggs in the pitchers & they hatch just fine. From what I gather, the liquid in the pitches aren't very toxic anyway & in a tank they get a lot more water in them than in the wild so even less of a problem. These pitchers get full of water within a few days.

I know just what you mean about money for plants or frogs. I know when we get frogs we have to get set up to grow their food too. My wife has wanted to get some chickens for a long time so I built her a coop for three chickens. I'm going to raise crickets for the frogs & anoles & when the crickets get to big for them I'll feed them to the chickens. Between that & fruit flies, I'll have a regular food factory. I guess everyone does though?

Been trying to find some more fern moss to fill in on the branches that are still bare.


----------



## rabu92

So the "deadly" pitcher plant becomes a natural film canister, that's nice 

And for moss, here's a picture of my dream moss carpet. Something to work towards.


----------



## fullmonti

There is no end to how many kinds of moss, is there? 

Do you think you can get that moss that's in the handbook?


----------



## fullmonti

*new glass frog*



OK not the kind you were thinking right?


----------



## fullmonti

Some new stuff & orchids







The little guy hanging over the branch at the top of the frame


I added a couple new branches





Some blooming









The small pitcher plant is a growing fool





Will finally be getting frogs, maybe this week or first of next for sure.

Later!
Jim


----------



## Barry Thomas

Absolutely incredible!


----------



## FroggyKnight

This tank is epic! Very nice job and I'm sure the frogs will do great in there. What are you thinking of adding?

Do you think you could include some IDs for the orchids? They are looking great 

John


----------



## hydrophyte

That looks awesome!

What is the fern-like moss growing on the branches?


----------



## outrageouslyfabulous

All of those orchids are amazing! Where do you get them?


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks!

The stuff on the branches is fern moss. I bought it from a member on ebay, I can get you a link if you need it. I really like it & hope it doesn't get much thicker & start to grow over any orchids.

Orchid IDs, yes I should have done that all a long. I'm not very good with the crazy names but let me know which one or ones & I'll get the names for anyone that wants them. For the most part they are all pretty common ones, so was hoping everyone knew what they were. Not a good idea I guess.

Jim


----------



## fullmonti

outrageouslyfabulous said:


> All of those orchids are amazing! Where do you get them?


Some from ebay, some at a orchid show, some from Andy's orchids & some from Seattle orchids.

They are all warm to hot growers & shade to part shade orchids that like damp conditions.


----------



## ChrisAZ

Nice plants!

What is your current lighting?

It looks like you have quite a few large fans set up in there. How many are you using, how often and do you run them at full speed?


----------



## Pubfiction

> Can any one tell me if the leaves will get bigger than this? They are smaller than a dime right now.


They can probably get as big as a quarter but not much more.


----------



## fullmonti

ChrisAZ said:


> Nice plants!
> 
> What is your current lighting?
> 
> It looks like you have quite a few large fans set up in there. How many are you using, how often and do you run them at full speed?


The lights are a mix of T5s & high output LEDs. About 1000 foot-candles near the top, not a lot of light by sun light standards but it's constant (no cloudy days) & some of the T5s & all the LEDs have extra red in the spectrum. So it is enough that some of the shade plants leaves have turned a little purple. From what I understand that means they are getting plenty of light.

There are 5 120mm fans, not high output but very quiet. They go off for about an hour a couple times during the day & are off most of the night. They are not on full speed but I'm need to put a screen over them for the frogs, so will probably turn them up a little then.

It's a big tank with a lot of glass to keep from fogging up & when I started talking to orchid people about growing orchids in a terrarium, the first thing they all said was most orchids need good air movement. There is just enough air flow to move some of the leaves just a little.


----------



## Johnny C

Very beautiful setup... thanks for sharing! 

PS- Sorry if I missed it earlier, but what type(s) of LEDs are you using?


----------



## dom

JAW DROPPED! This is one fantastic, detailed build.


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks to all!

The LEDs are Build My LED high output models. There are two 48"ers, one 18" on one end & three of those little 13W 65K screw in LEDs over the rock wall end. Four 48" T5 bulbs & 4 36" T5 bulbs, plus a 125W heat/UV bulb that is on for a hour or two three times a day. 

So, Yes pretty much the whole top is filled with a light of some kind.


----------



## rigel10

It is very nice, so lush and colorful! Compliments


----------



## ChrisAZ

Do you have the names of these three orchids?


----------



## fullmonti

Top Trichosalpinx rotundata (really like the helmet look)
Middle Trichosalpinx orbicularis (similar to above)
Bottom Lepanthopsis astrophora mini (really small & cute)

I have a new one but it had a problem & the vender is sending another one. I'll post a pic with it's name when it's settled in, it is a very odd plant.


----------



## fullmonti

The new orchid! Pleurothallis dilemma


AKA (at our house anyway) the string bean orchid

It has bloomed since he has been in my tank so guessing this one will be OK.






Close up of its little devil face. Didn't have the macro so just cropped in.

Some unexpected expenses cam up so did not get my frogs. Not sure when that will happen now. I did get some lizards though. They were much less & less for their food setup too. I got two long tail lizards.


They come by their name honestly!

One of them has taken to sleeping in the bromeliads.





One of them had two eggs in her when I got her & laid them some where in the tank the first or second day in.

I also got four green anoles. Three males one female, just all they had at the time. There has only been one brief fight the first day. They are way more skittish than the long tails so not so many pix of them yet.


This is the little female & this is what they like to do most all the time. 

I put some small crickets in every other day. I have never seen them eat one yet but they are not skinny more like plump, so guess their getting them when I'm not watching.

All the lizards run for cover when the mister comes on, kinda funny to see.

All for now
Jim

Almost forgot, I'm setting up a round tank I already had on hand, for mudskippers. It's kinda like a paludarium, it will have water & land & a few plants. Will post some photos of it when the setup is a little farther along.


----------



## ChrisAZ

I love mudskippers, look forward to seeing that tank when it's done. 
Did you ever mention what spectrum your BMLs are and why you chose that?


----------



## fullmonti

My LEDs are cool white with ever fifth bulb being red. The red helps growth rate, but too much looks unnatural. They said that grouping would look natural & help growth. They were right, color looks great & plants are doing great, so can't complain at all.

I have always wanted skippers & stumbled on getting three for free & had the round tank already, seemed a no brainer.


----------



## ChrisAZ

Thanks for sharing the info and best of luck with the mudskippers.


----------



## FroggyKnight

I used to have mud skippers and they are super rewarding! You will absolutely love them! Probably the most interesting fish I've ever owned. They can be very hardy, too.

I just with that they were easier to breed in captivity and more available...

John

Edit: I like that Pleurothallis dilemma! The leaves on them are just so different


----------



## michaelbishop33

This thing is unreal. Beautiful work.


----------



## froggy_skibum

have you added any heat sources or UVB for the lizards?


----------



## fullmonti

Yes I had a UVB bulb from the beginning, knowing I would eventually have some lizards. I have it on more now that they are in though.

Haven't heard from my mudskipper person. Hope I can still have them. Still have to work out a light for the their tank but it's had water running in it for a while now. I've been putting food in so the bacteria can have something to build on. Will post pix when I get the light done.


----------



## fullmonti

Got a couple photos of the anoles. 




They keep an eye on what I'm doing but aren't so skittish any more.


This one got caught in the mist.

Still no ward on my skippers. I'm worried it might be to cold to ship them, or the person that was going to ship them to me is just covered up with work or something.

More later
Jim


----------



## FroggyKnight

If packaged correctly, I doubt that cold will be a problem as they are VERY resilient IME. Although, shipping delays might be a problem is it is sent out during the holiday season. Any idea what species you will be receiving specifically?

Great pics of those anoles!

John


----------



## fullmonti

They are the Indian dwarfs. I think they should be OK too but the current owner is in someplace like Idaho & was concerned. 

Thanks
Jim


----------



## Dr.Hoatzin

Absolutely gorgeous setup, Jim, and so well-executed. I think the part that impresses me the most is your vision of the finished product from the time you began building...most of us are more haphazard and our tanks slowly, circuitously evolve to a finished product.

I can tell I'll be staring at these pics as I build my first viv this month. Thanks for the inspiration!

Cheers,

Cara

(from BML )


----------



## mwallrath

Your set up is insane. One of the best I have ever seen hobbyist or professional display.


----------



## fullmonti

Thank You, your very kind & you are giving me to much credit. I kinda had some what of a plan but one thing lead to another then to another till it was finished. It all started with finding the stump & realizing it would fit the footprint I had to work with.

Again thank You, I'm glad to be able to share like so many that have shared here that helped me learn enough to build my tank.

Jim




Dr.Hoatzin said:


> Absolutely gorgeous setup, Jim, and so well-executed. I think the part that impresses me the most is your vision of the finished product from the time you began building...most of us are more haphazard and our tanks slowly, circuitously evolve to a finished product.
> 
> I can tell I'll be staring at these pics as I build my first viv this month. Thanks for the inspiration!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Cara
> 
> (from BML )


----------



## fullmonti

What do you do if your favorite spot is already taken?



Pile on of course.


----------



## rigel10

I do not know the needs of Anoles, but it seems to me that your choice to put Anoles in your palu is great. They are perfect for this setup, as shown by your wonderful pics. Plants and animals: all perfect!


----------



## jturner

That is an amazing tank and is probably one of the nicest I have ever seen. I like the anoles but have you considered putting basilisks in there? I have a pair of green basilisks and they are beautiful lizards especially the male. They would make use of the water section and with that large of an enclosure you would probably see them run across the water. Just an idea


----------



## fullmonti

I had to look them up to see what you were talking about. I had seen them before but didn't remember the name. They are really cool looking lizards but get way to big for this tank. Would be fun to set something up for them though.

Rigel10 thanks & I agree the anoles have made them selfs right at home. Will have a couple new pix of them soon.


----------



## jturner

Now that I think about it Basilisks would probably also trample all of your beautiful little orchids. What about mountain horned lizards? I am also interested as to what frogs you plan on putting in there. Were you thinking something bigger like flying tree frogs/waxy monkey tree frogs or medium size like red eyed tree frogs? 
I also can't wait to see the mudskippers and their setup


----------



## fullmonti

I was going to have Anthonyi dart frogs but probably will not get any frogs now. I ran into some money issues & was going to put off any frogs. I have enjoyed the anoles so much that will just stick with them. If I don't have frogs I can have some fish I thought about but would eat the tads, like rope fish I just got.

My wife & I like the anoles so much we are thinking about building a enclosure for a real chameleon, a Jackson's. chameleon. The chameleons (males) don't really go down on the ground & I was thinking maybe having fire belly toads in the bottom of the chameleons cage. Will have to do more research about all that though.

Looks like my connection for the mudskippers fell through. Guess it will be spring before they are imported again.


----------



## fullmonti

Some iphone photos of the lizards


The long tails a very tame & big buddies.


We came home after lights out the other day & this guy was sound asleep. Not the best quality photo but there was only a couple lamps on in the whole house, so not to bad for a cellphone photo.


The best hunter in the tank. He is so fat & he deeps an eye on me too.


This is fatty again, settling in for the night. He has slept there a couple times now.

It for now
Jim


----------



## jturner

Those anoles and grass lizards look very happy. I don't think I have ever seen an anole that fat

I had a male jackson's chameleon who recently passed away. Jackson's are awesome but I don't suggest mixing them with anything. Mine was in between two other enclosures and he would puff up and get very agitated when he saw his neighbors, even frogs. They do spend most of their time up high but will come down lower sometimes. They just tend to do better alone unless you plan to build a massive tank or cage for them to live in. Fire bellied toads are slightly toxic and would not be a good idea to mix with lizards although I keep some with a big fat whites tree frog with no problem. I once put an anole with a fire belly and the anole got mad and bit him and started frothing at the mouth. The anole flopped over and stopped moving. I separated them immediately and I though the anole was dead but he survived and was ok luckily. I learned my lesson so just be careful what you mix with fire bellies.


----------



## jimmy rustles

fullmonti said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We came home after lights out the other day & this guy was sound asleep. Not the best quality photo but there was only a couple lamps on in the whole house, so not to bad for a cellphone photo.



Its kinda hard to judge from just one pic and the perspective, but the tail looks a bit rachitic, just so you can Check him/ keep an eye on him.are you gonna let em go "dormant" in The winter period with some cooler Temperatures?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## fullmonti

jturner said:


> Those anoles and grass lizards look very happy. I don't think I have ever seen an anole that fat
> 
> I had a male jackson's chameleon who recently passed away. Jackson's are awesome but I don't suggest mixing them with anything. Mine was in between two other enclosures and he would puff up and get very agitated when he saw his neighbors, even frogs. They do spend most of their time up high but will come down lower sometimes. They just tend to do better alone unless you plan to build a massive tank or cage for them to live in. Fire bellied toads are slightly toxic and would not be a good idea to mix with lizards although I keep some with a big fat whites tree frog with no problem. I once put an anole with a fire belly and the anole got mad and bit him and started frothing at the mouth. The anole flopped over and stopped moving. I separated them immediately and I though the anole was dead but he survived and was ok luckily. I learned my lesson so just be careful what you mix with fire bellies.


Did you click on the photos to make them full size? He is fat but this site does not compress the photo proportionately, so some times they are pretty distorted.

I LOL at the story about the toad & anole, even though I'm sure it wasn't funny at the time. Thanks for the info about the Jackson's, I know I need to read more about them & am working on it. I'm planing a cage roughly 30x30x48" so not overly large but should be good. I knew they didn't like other chameleons but did not know they did like seeing any other animals.

Thanks
Jim


----------



## fullmonti

jimmy rustles said:


> Its kinda hard to judge from just one pic and the perspective, but the tail looks a bit rachitic, just so you can Check him/ keep an eye on him.are you gonna let em go "dormant" in The winter period with some cooler Temperatures?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I don't really have anyway to get cooler temps, other than the house is a few degrees cooler in the winter. I think the slight kinks in his tail are from the photos but I watch these guys all the time. What could/should be done if it was?


----------



## bwagner

First of all, very nice setup. It's definitely a real masterpiece. 

Second, with regards to you led fixture, what spectrum did you go with?


----------



## fullmonti

The LEDs are Build My LED & they are cool white with every fifth bulb being red. That's what they recommended & I have been very happy with them. The more red the more the plants like it but to much & it doesn't look natural. That much red still look normal but helps with growth.


----------



## Johnny C

I always enjoy viewing this thread... great pics!


----------



## fullmonti

This is the little female. She has taken to sleeping here about every other night or so. Not exactly hidden. I have to say, the more these little guys get settled in the more fun they are.


----------



## jimmy rustles

fullmonti said:


> I don't really have anyway to get cooler temps, other than the house is a few degrees cooler in the winter. I think the slight kinks in his tail are from the photos but I watch these guys all the time. What could/should be done if it was?


I am not sure on all your parameters, obviously sufficient UV-Lightning helps, as well as powdered and gut-loaded feeders, that can be caught while the powder is still on them. otherwise I'm no vet, but at least for younger animals I think that being dominated by other males/animals can accelerate the symptoms.

I dont know how your plants cope with it, but I've heard of sufficient "hibernations" by just decreasing the lightning-duration to 8 hours per day for a period of sth around 2 months.


----------



## Drewbacca

Amazing. That is all...


Seriously, I hadn't looked at this thread since June, and I just now looked thru the progress of your journey with this build. Great work my friend, and I slalute you in your mission to have made this dream of yours come to life. Excellent work. 
Much respect,
-Drew


----------



## Dr.Hoatzin

That's a fantastic photo of the little female!

To my eyes, all your Anoles look very well-fed and healthy. I kept hundreds of these guys when I was a kid, and caught many more that were in far poorer shape than the ones in these pics. They appear the picture of health. You may not be seeing them, but I bet they're laying eggs for you already...females will deposit them down in the leaf litter, but even with good humidity they often desiccate. So if you find any eggs, take them out and incubate them separately!

Cheers,

Cara


----------



## fullmonti

Thank you, everyone. 

I grew up in Daytona Beach I caught theses guys too. It has been very rewarding to see this come together & the anoles have been the icing on the top. 

I checked to see what the day time length is in central Florida. Looks like 10 hours or so in the winter. Think I will decrease little at a time the time the lights are on to match, like jimmy rustles suggested. Will probably let the plants know it winter too.

PS a lot of the lizard photos & some of the others are iphone photos. The lizards don't stay in one place long & is quicker to grab the phone. I am amazed at how good a photo a phone can do. Just doesn't seem right.


----------



## jimmy rustles

Dr.Hoatzin said:


> That's a fantastic photo of the little female!
> 
> 
> 
> To my eyes, all your Anoles look very well-fed and healthy. I kept hundreds of these guys when I was a kid, and caught many more that were in far poorer shape than the ones in these pics. They appear the picture of health. You may not be seeing them, but I bet they're laying eggs for you already...females will deposit them down in the leaf litter, but even with good humidity they often desiccate. So if you find any eggs, take them out and incubate them separately!
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> Cara



I did not mean to take anything away from your exzellent work or tank, obviously im following it from the get go and am fascinated by it. Neither did i mean to say your animals look ill. It was just the one pic that sprung my eye and as i said things are hard to judge from one pic. So please don't take my comments on the wrong foot, Again hats up to your work. Without being a specialist tho, i do feel that your animals might benefit from the said Winter stimulation, if it is doable in one way or the other.


Edit: just saw your new post and that You looked the winter in Central Florida. Maybe These are also of interest to you:


Bishop, D. C. & Echternacht A. C. (2004): Emergence behavior and movements of winter-aggregated green anoles (Anolis carolinensis) and the thermal characteristics of their crevices in Tennessee. Herpetologica 60(2):168-177


Bishop, D. C. & Echternacht A. C. (2003):Winter growth and sex ratio of a northern population of Anolis carolinensis (Sauria: Polychrotidae). Copeia 2003(4):906-909


Jenssen, T.A., Congdon, J.D., Fischer, R.U., Estes, R., Kling, D., Edmands,S. & Berna, H. (1996): Behavioural, thermal, and metabolic characteristics of a wintering lizard (Anolis carolinensis) from South Carolina. Functional Ecology 10: 201-209



Michaud, E. J. (1991):The evolution of size in a temperate zone Anolis (Sauria: Iguanidae). In: Losos, J. B., & Mayer, G. C.,. 1991. Anolis Newsletter IV. Washington University, 104-112


Minesky, J.J., & Echternacht A. C. (1991): Heating and Cooling Rates in Anolis carolinensis and Anolis sagrei (Sauria: Iguanidae). In: Losos, J. B., & Mayer, G. C.,. 1991. Anolis Newsletter IV. Washington University, 113-123


----------



## fullmonti

No worries, I had been thinking of what or if I should do to simulate seasons a bit. Adjusting length of day I can do easy. I like to hear what others know, think or suggest about things.

I looked into yet another way to cool the night temperature. I would like to do that for several reasons. I tried the radiator thing, way to complicated & took humidity out of the take. Tank way to big to put frozen bottles of water in it at night. Plus a more automated system would be better. Found what looks like a great simple way to do night cooling. Basically draw outside air into tank at night. the main thing needed is a small duct with a thermostatically controlled damper & fan. If the out side air is dry, just use a humidifier with a inline tube to the duct when the damper is open & drawing in air. I found what is supposed to be a very reliable powered open & close damper but still worry if the damper ever stuck open when it was really cold, it might freeze everything in the tank. A small AC unit a with a duct & humidifier would do the same thing but kinda bulky & expensive. It never really ends does it? Always wonder if there is something more or better you could be doing. Money permitting of course. Can you tell I have to much time to think about things? 

Not a fan of winter. South east Ten. is a great area to live in, four seasons but all mild. The gray damp winter days sucks the ambition right out of you though. Still better than the six months of 90% humidity & 90 + degree weather in Florida, I guess? 

now I'm rambling, time to go
Jim


----------



## fullmonti

Some news



A baby long tail showed up in the tank. So small & cute I couldn't believe it! I ordered some fruit flies for him right away. Later that day he climbed to the highest place in the tank which was where the pitcher plant has started to vine. He was so small he could go through the netting I have on the top of the tank & stayed up there till the next day. The pitcher plant had gotten so big I ended up cutting off the vine part (the leaves were nearly a foot long each & growing even faster than before). After that was gone I caught the little guy & got him back in the tank instead of above it. I saw him the next day or two but haven't seen him since. Don't know if he is hiding, died or if the big anole ate him.





Some photos of the pitcher plant before cutting the vine part off so you have some idea how big it got. A guy is going to sell me a true dwarf come spring so guess I'll just keep this one trimmed back till then.




This is the size of the pitches. I don't mind the large pitcher, it's the foot long leaves shading things too much that is the problem.

Anyway hope the little long tail is just hiding but impossible to know right now.


----------



## fbazin

Wow, thats lots of work !! Very nice....keep the picture coming ;-)


----------



## fullmonti

I have a question, hoping someone can help with.

Every one I show pix of this tank says "man you should be selling these" I'm not under any illusion there would be a big market (or possibly any) for made to order vivariums. I expect most would want to build there own. My only thought was perhaps like large fish tanks in doctors offices or in business lobbies they might be interested in a vivarium of some short. I have the time to do this & would like to build more but have no room in our house.

Anyone doing anything along those lines? That might be willing to share there experiences. 

Any suggestion or comments? Even you've got to be kidding.

Just a thought

Will have some new pix soon. Never knew so many orchids bloomed in winter.

thanks
Jim


----------



## Defica

I had an opportunity to do a contract build, but it fell through as soon I quoted it out. In my experience (which is pretty limited) people seem to think a display viv costs about 100 bucks. 

I'm sure the situation would be different if you were working with a corporate client. I'd suggest putting together a portfolio and going around to some of the places in your community and pitching the idea to them. See what kind of interest there is out there. 

Study up a bit in the therapeutic effects of aquariums/ vivariums. I know some docs will "prescribe" aquariums to people with high blood pressure to help them a bit.

Basically, you're going to need to convince them that there is more value added than just a pretty looking display tank. 

Don't forget to think about maintenance. Would you do that or have them maintain the piece? 

I don't know if this helps or not. Just a few things to consider.


----------



## ChrisAZ

People have been doing this for many years with aquariums. I'm sure you could find a basic business model that is working for them. If you have a high end aquarium shop around you could ask them if know of anyone doing this locally.


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks guys

I was thinking along the same lines as some of those suggestions. I do wonder if even a corporate client would pay what it would take.

I know a couple people that set up & maintain large saltwater tanks.

I think I could come up with what the costs would be. How much time it would take & what to charge for labor is another matter.

I also thought about some of the plants are seasonal or not always available. Might be tuff to put one together & look good right away.

All N all not a simple thing to contemplate.


----------



## hypostatic

yeah, i think what a lot of fish stores do to pay the bills is also run some sort of aquarium setup and maintenance for corporate clients and private clients with deep pockets.

I suppose it could be done with vivs and frogs -- you'd just have to figure out how to feed the frogs without supplements, and how to sustain a mixed viv without constant supervision.


----------



## fullmonti

Not having experience with frogs I would not offer to support them after setup. The anoles are pretty easy to care for, thought they would be a better fit for a tank in a lobby that had little attention given it.

There is a lot to think about for sure.


----------



## fullmonti

I didn't expect so many orchids bloomed in the winter.


pretty much my fave flower


took me a while to figure out the name of this one, Neof. falcata (Amami island, white) first time it has bloomed for me




these two bloom nearly all the time

There was one more blooming but it was the first time & was small & facing away from view, so not much to look at yet.

Where ever you are I hope your winter weather isn't to bad.
Jim


----------



## Hobbes1911

What a great looking tank. I love the B. amphioxus and the lush orchid growth!!! Do you have any recent full tank shots?


----------



## fullmonti

No new FTS but just cleaned the glass so might be a good time for some.


----------



## easttex

fullmonti said:


> Not having experience with frogs I would not offer to support them after setup. The anoles are pretty easy to care for, thought they would be a better fit for a tank in a lobby that had little attention given it.
> 
> There is a lot to think about for sure.




My advice would be against trying to make this a sideline business. I had an aquarium cleaning business once, back when I worked at a pet shop and had a bunch of aquariums. The cash I made sort of paid for my aquarium hobby but it was also a real drag to work at a pet shop all day, go work on someone else's aquarium after hours, then go home and tend to all mine. I ended up burning out and getting rid of my tanks, changing jobs, and quitting the cleaning business. It just wasn't fun anymore...


----------



## agimlin

I have a basement business called Tropics In a Box and I do just that. I mainly only build vivariums rather that aquariums due to ease of maintenance. I don't really make any money doing it but I do get to build tanks. Not much of a market, at least where I live, but I do have several tanks out there


----------



## Dendro Dave

Jim how do you like the Neo F. for vivs? Been wanting to experiment with some but haven't gotten around to it yet. Anything I need to know for success? (Anyone else's advice is welcome too)


----------



## fullmonti

Hate to admit this, which is the Neo F. I'm not much on keeping up with names.


----------



## Dendro Dave

fullmonti said:


> Hate to admit this, which is the Neo F. I'm not much on keeping up with names.


It was the 2nd pic in last post with several pics: you mentioned it by name 

P.S. I can't see the pics now, looks like you exceeded photobucket bandwidth. Flicker is free and seems to have that problem far less often.


----------



## fullmonti

The Neo F. was one of the first orchid I got. It's grown well with no problems. Temp mostly 70s to 81or82 for short periods, mist 3 times a day, low to medium light, fertilize with fish water from the tank & not a lot at that. Easy keeper I'd say.

I got a notice from photobucket I was about to exceed my storage but have not added anything since then. I am so pissed they pulled everything when I never added any more photos. I've looked at all their web info & can't find a way to contact photobucket, does anyone know a way to contact them I am really angry about this.


----------



## Defica

Regarding the photobucket issue. It's not a storage problem. It's a bandwidth problem. Any time you embed a photo it has to talk to photobucket to display the image every time someone calls it up. Aka views this page. You have a monthly allotted amount of bandwidth. I think it's 10 gigs for the free account. 

The best way to resolve the issue is to reduce the size of your images. Just for example sake, if you had a 5 gig image embedded here it could be viewed twice before you used up your bandwidth. Obviously your images aren't that large, but you get the point. If you can get your image file sizes down to around 100megs it would give you something like 1000 views. The problem is that it counts toward every image on the page that is loading (I think). So if you have 10 images on the page, even at 100megs, your down to 100 views before you run out of bandwidth. 

I might be wrong on that last part, but you get the idea. The good news is that your bandwidth resets monthly, so they will come back, but it definitely stinks having to deal with this.


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks for the info, sounds like that's probably the problem. It still pisses me off that they have no way to contact them, at least that I could find last night will have to look again. If I can find any other supplier I will not do any kind of business with a company that I can't contact if there is a problem.


----------



## fullmonti

Some new photos


FTS 3-1-15 no room light so did a HDR for more detail. About ready to whack the peace lily way back, it was only suppose to get 18" tall. 


One of the Maidenhair fern volunteers that have piped up. I like!


New fungus growth


More fungus & orchid that the leaves keep getting redder.


The pitcher plant started to vine & the leaves got so big I cut the the vine part off. Now it is sprouting several new shoots. I will be getting a new smaller pitcher plant in the spring & will sell or trade this one then. If you wanted an easy keeper that gets pretty big, this would be a good one.

Jim


----------



## hypostatic

Oh wow this is looking fantastic!!

The orchid that's turning red is probably getting a little too much light. I'd recommend putting a little bit of screening on the top above it to create a little bit of shade for it.


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks, I actually have another orchid I got from Andy's Orchids that the leaves have turned from green to reddish purple. That one struggled a little to adapt but has finally started growing new & healthy leaves. I didn't have any place to move that one so it was sink or swim, it decided it could swim. 

They both are getting more light than at Andy's & I talked to them about it & they said it didn't really hurt them to get a bit too much light & mad the colors nice. The red one has grown really well from the beginning. In fact many things are growing faster & bigger than they should. Some times that's good, some times not so much. All in all I love this thing & so does the wife. And that is always a good thing.

Jim


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## fullmonti

I got a new iphone6 & was very impressed with the panoramas it would do. So I tried one in the tank. I made it twice as big as normal when I put them on photobucket because you real need to see it big. Not sure if they will resize it or not but here goes.


I think there is something different about being close & doing a panorama & just backing up & cropping in on a normal photo. If you look really close there is a couple little places I moved a bit & made a sawtooth effect but amazing for a phone photo.

Well it doesn't come up any bigger than normal. How do the ones that have huge photos on here do it? Although most the time those huge images take so long to load it's not really worth it. This one might be worth the wait?

Jim


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## Twisted46

Wow, this is absolutely stunning and I am so very jealous. Great work!


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## Dendviv

Super Impressed!


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## Tykie

Wow, i'm new to frogs and this is just stunning! I can only hope to have a viv like this someday!


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## fullmonti

Thanks guys. Tykie Wasn't that long ago I said the same thing when I saw some of the beautiful tanks here.


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## Kpribbit

Ok, this is the most amazing paludarium I have ever seen!!! How many gallons is this? Also, can you give me the measurements? (sorry if I ask too many questions I just really love this setup.)


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## fullmonti

Thanks 

It's 30"X60"X48" tall, more or less a 300gal terrarium on top of a 70gal fish tank. 

Need to take some new pix. A few little changes with some plants. Will try to do that soon.


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## Kpribbit

Ok thanks! Geez this is a huge one!


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## fullmonti

OK some new pix, sorry just iphone snaps this time.

I took the pitcher plant out & gave it to someone I met that grows them in Fla.

Got a new Brom. to put in it's place






As you can see the lizards like to lay on it.


Put this little guy over an orchid that was getting too much light & not doing well in hopes it would be shaded a bit.


Another new little brom. in the back & a very happy begonia.


The old brom. are doing well.


These Anubias seem to grow much better if they grow out of the water rather than completely under water.


These orchids are really happy. Some of the orchids are not growing so fast and or mot blooming all that good, I think fertilizing with nothing but fish water may not be quite enough for some orchids.


This is in our yard. Just about my fav. flower out there. I was told it was a hardy orchid but no idea if that's right. It dies to the ground every year & comes back & new volunteers come up from seeds too.

I haven't cleaned the glass in many weeks so no FTS. I do wood sculpting a lot in the summer time so tank maintenance has suffered. I have finished 6-8 new pieces & when I get them photographed I'll post some pix of them. Off topic but think most will enjoy seeing them.

Jim


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## Hoopdeez

Hey Jim!
That is a Lily, can't remember the name, but when I first saw one I thought it was an orchid as well. There are a bunch where I work, and I plan to grab a few seeds . Amazing paludarium, Its my inspiration to build one myself!
cheers,
Jeff


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## rigel10

It is a long time I do not follow the updates of this thread. Your palu is wonderful, one of the nicest ever seen!


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## fullmonti

I replaced my 48" T5s with more LEDs from Build My LED a couple months ago & my broms have never looked better, did not mess with the colors they really look like this. Also got some new ones & a blue tail from the yard.




The tall dude is a Quesnelia Marmorata Got it on ebay & looked it up & is only supposed to get 14" tall but it came in taller than that already. Hope it has topped out because it is 2" from the top of my tank now.


The tied up one is a Billbergia Carino, had to tie it down because it came bare root & not many roots at that.

 
Mini brom


Couple more minis.


Some more anoles.


And a blue tail from the yard (a big one too).

Still have two other broms I'm going to get when I can. Beautiful weather in Chattanooga right now! That's it for now.

Jim

Jim


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## cam1941

Gorgeous set up! Love that you went with the anoles, I bet they're fun to watch... Any babies? 

Was wondering how your B. Amphixious holds up to being misted all the time? I was told they hate getting wet and only like to have moist feet but not wet. Where did you get yours btw? It looked full grown when you put it in... I was only able to find people selling babies or cuttings lol


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## ChrisAZ

Things are looking good. What colors did you use on your new BML?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## easttex

By the way, that blue tail is really a Five Lined Skink in case you wanted to know. 

That's all I can add to this awesome thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

cam1941 said:


> Gorgeous set up! Love that you went with the anoles, I bet they're fun to watch... Any babies?
> 
> Was wondering how your B. Amphixious holds up to being misted all the time? I was told they hate getting wet and only like to have moist feet but not wet. Where did you get yours btw? It looked full grown when you put it in... I was only able to find people selling babies or cuttings lol


I got it at Black Jungle. It was small & expensive when I got it. I actually took a couple clippings off it, have to wait & see if they make it. It gets only a little misting where it is (dumb luck)

No baby anoles. I read some where something about there being a problem with the eggs in a terrarium.


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## fullmonti

ChrisAZ said:


> Things are looking good. What colors did you use on your new BML?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They call it the orchid spectrum. All cool white with ever 6th or 7th bulb being red. I really like their lights & they are very helpful people too!

I also have one of their lights on a small temperate salt water tank


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## fullmonti

easttex said:


> By the way, that blue tail is really a Five Lined Skink in case you wanted to know.
> 
> That's all I can add to this awesome thread.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


Maybe that's why this one is bigger than most blue tails I see? Just thought I'd see how he did in a warm place for the winter.


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## easttex

The blue tail is part of their juvenile phase. As they mature, they get larger and turn brownish with a reddish head. 

They also make good pets and will help keep pests out of your vivarium. He will likely flourish in the habitat you've tossed him into, just like the anoles.


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## fullmonti

I have seen the bigger brown ones, had no idea this could be a young one of those.

Thanks
Jim


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## Coniferous

awesome amazing tank  where did you get the mosses?


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## fullmonti

On ebay but it was from a frog guy. I think this is his store? Fern Moss (Hypnum sp.) - $6.00 : Blue Pumilio

He had a variety pack of moss at the time.


----------



## cam1941

Cool thanks... Guess I'll have to be careful where I place mine.


----------



## xxohmycaptainxx

So I have fern moss in my crested gecko viv and I noticed yours is doing something similar to mine. I noticed when you first started your moss was bright green but in many places its now brownish-red with green parts here and there. 

Is this due to high lighting and the plant producing less chlorophyll to prevent from ODing and dying? Or is it the plant being burnt and dying off?

Because mine looks similar but it still seems to be growing, slowly I must add. Its such a pain cuz everywhere online says moss needs high-light but now mine is this ugly brown-red instead of the gorgeous green it should've been.


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## fullmonti

It seems like the new growth is the nice green & when it gets older or in the brightest light it kinda yellows out. I have been meaning to trim/cut back some of the old growth & see if it comes back in more green. 

I like that moss when it's new & lower growing. I do not like that it keeps getting thinker & thicker. It can grow over small orchids & any other small low growing plants.


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## fullmonti

Anoles crack me up!


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## SLEEPiNG GiRL

Wow, stunning!

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

My first brom. bloom!


This was yesterday


This was today. Never seen anything grow so fast. Will take another photo when it opens.

Also got a new brom. Had been looking for a yellow one.



I am so happy with my Bromeliads!

Took another pano iPhone shot of the tank. Did you see the anole?



That's about it till that bloom opens up.

Jim


----------



## fullmonti

Looks like this is as open as these flowers open.



Complete with anole!

This plant is the highest thing in the tank & the anoles love it. It is also right under the UVB bulb that comes on first thing in the morning, so they line up to lay under the rising sun.


----------



## inka4040

fullmonti said:


> [/URL]
> This is in our yard. Just about my fav. flower out there. I was told it was a hardy orchid but no idea if that's right. It dies to the ground every year & comes back & new volunteers come up from seeds too.
> Jim


Not an orchid, but an iris that goes by the common name of a lily. 

Blackberry lily, on account of the seeds, but officially Iris domestica. 


This tank is mindboggling, by the way. The colors on those broms is just out of this world. Really truly spectacular.


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## fullmonti

Thanks, all the way around.


----------



## fullmonti

I know this is a primarily a frog forum & I'l try to stop posting lizard photos, but. Remember when I said the lizards love the new tall broom?



A little later the other two came over & sunned them selfs on the branches next to this plant.


----------



## rigel10

I think your paludarium is inspirational, so each photo - even those of your lizards - it's fine, IMO.


----------



## Dendro Dave

One of my first herps was an anole, and while I probably kept it to desert like due to youth and ignorance she did live over 4.5 years... But anyways the reason I mention having one is because they are fun to watch and I saw her do one of the coolest things I've seen any herp do...

She's on the glass, a cricket is below her.... She jumps off the glass, backflips and lands munching the cricket. I mean the mammal equivalent would be like watching a leopard backflip off a tree to catch an antelope...


----------



## outrageouslyfabulous

One of my favorite vivariums ever, definitely. Everything is so lush and vibrant, and growing great! 

I may have missed this information, but how high do you keep your humidity and what's your misting schedule?


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks

It mists for 4min in the early morning & 1 min at 2pm & 1min at 4:30. Gets down in the mid 70% range just before misting then up in the high 80s or 90% right after misting.


----------



## raimeiken

Love this viv so much! I love all the plants especially the orchids and broms! 

I haven't been in the hobby for years now, and I'm guessing LEDs are the new hotness in lighting now? I'm very surprised on how your Neos have maintained their colors. Back when I was in the hobby, the more colorful neos would eventually lose their color and turn green with just fluorescent lighting. I guess LEDs are the answer to that.


----------



## jpm995

Wow just read through all 10 pages on this thread. Just a wonderful build would have never thought it would turn out this beautiful. Did you ever find the baby longtailed lizard? I would think the lizards would eat dart frogs if you added them.


----------



## fullmonti

raimeiken said:


> Love this viv so much! I love all the plants especially the orchids and broms!
> 
> I haven't been in the hobby for years now, and I'm guessing LEDs are the new hotness in lighting now? I'm very surprised on how your Neos have maintained their colors. Back when I was in the hobby, the more colorful neos would eventually lose their color and turn green with just fluorescent lighting. I guess LEDs are the answer to that.


I think the amount of light is greater with these LEDs than T5s plus the spectrum is shifted to promote plant growth. 

There are several ways to measure light. I don't know enough about it to explain it well but plants use different parts of the visible spectrum more than others. PAR measures the parts of visible light that plants use most. I learned about this from slat water tanks with corals. I tried to find out how much PAR shade orchids needed when I started this tank & was told by some of the orchid people that was nonsense or didn't matter. 

Anyway yes I think the LEDs are great. they are expensive but last for 50,000 hours & are very bright. Next time I see my friend who has the reef club PAR meter I will get it & see how much there is in this tank. Just so I will know.

Thank you I am glad the broms have kept there color too.

Jim


----------



## fullmonti

jpm995 said:


> Wow just read through all 10 pages on this thread. Just a wonderful build would have never thought it would turn out this beautiful. Did you ever find the baby longtailed lizard? I would think the lizards would eat dart frogs if you added them.


I never saw the baby long tail after a few days. I assumed he starved before I could get some food small enough for him. 

I'm pretty sure dart frogs are too big for the anoles or long tails to eat. After dealing with the little fruit flies I got for the baby long tail, the only dart frogs I might consider are terribillis because they are bigger & could eat the same things the lizards eat. My tank is set up better for tree frogs than dart frogs anyway. 

Thanks
Jim


----------



## Rushthezeppelin

I think you need to see a doctor about high levels of bromeliads, lol


----------



## rigel10

The more I look at your canopy, the more I like it.


----------



## fullmonti

Thanks, it was that necessity is the mother of invention thing. That was the only way I could think to make it all fit in the space I had.

The netting to keep the critters out of the fans & UVB bulb works great & blocks almost no light. I would highly recommend it to anyone thinking of some thing like it.


----------



## Dendro Dave

I wouldn't be shocked to see an Anole go after a thumbnail frog, or maybe even a pumilio, but they should be fine with larger darts, and they may be wise enough to avoid brightly colored possibly toxic animals.

I actually kept a golden gecko and then later a pair of adult flying geckos in with some darts when I was a noob and never had any issue, (and an adult flying gecko has a pretty big mouth. It could eat most Anoles if it wanted to probably)... except the dang geckos kept eating their own babies before I could get them out of there. 

Not condoning that btw, just throwing it out there as a data point. DO AS I SAY... not as I have done


----------



## fullmonti

A new brom. & OK a lizard as well. Finally the long tail got in a place that you could really see just how long a long tail lizards tail is.



That's the tail looping over & into the new pink brom.

I'm a commercial photographer & I just can't get over how good the camera is in an iphone. Almost every photo in this thread was taken with my iphone.


----------



## Elsongha

I could stare at those bromeliads. All. Day. Long!! The pictures are truly AMAZING. The colors just pop out with the bright green and dark pink/purple contrasts! Thank you for posting these!

I have a quick question: Do the broms ever send forth pups? I do not think I have seen any in the previous pictures you posted. Am I wrong??

Thanks again for the visual feast!


----------



## myersboy6

Gosh dang man! Your tank looks amazing! How do you get those brims to look so good! I love your lizards too. They are so cool


----------



## fullmonti

Elsongha said:


> I could stare at those bromeliads. All. Day. Long!! The pictures are truly AMAZING. The colors just pop out with the bright green and dark pink/purple contrasts! Thank you for posting these!
> 
> I have a quick question: Do the broms ever send forth pups? I do not think I have seen any in the previous pictures you posted. Am I wrong??
> 
> Thanks again for the visual feast!


You are right about the pups. Two of the newer ones have pups started but none of the original ones have yet. 

I have to admit I have gone out of my way to find bright colored Broms. I think with out some spots of color it is just too much greenery.


----------



## fullmonti

myersboy6 said:


> Gosh dang man! Your tank looks amazing! How do you get those brims to look so good! I love your lizards too. They are so cool


I think they keep their color as well as they have because of more light than most vivariums have, it's really bright in there.


And as always thanks everyone for looking & the kind words. This is a great forum!


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## myersboy6

fullmonti said:


> I think they keep their color as well as they have because of more light than most vivariums have, it's really bright in there.
> 
> 
> And as always thanks everyone for looking & the kind words. This is a great forum!


I always think I have a ton of light on my tank but my broms don't always get that much color. Whatever you are doing is working great!


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## jarteta97

What bromeliad is the yellow one? It reminds me of the one named "sunday best" on bromeliad.com. Also, it may have been mentioned already, but what bromeliad is the bright red one?


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## fullmonti

The yellow one I got on ebay & don't think it had a name. It has gone a little yellow green since it has been in my tank. Hoping it will regain more yellow when it's really settled in. The red one is Gypsy Lady from Seabreeze Nurseries. Seabreeze is where most of mine have come from.


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## Frogsarefun

This paludarium is awesome.
Some of the bromeliads colors look fake, in a great way.
Like the dark pink.
I got a glow in the dark mother in law plant last week at steins to add to my viv,
Don't know if it will glow much, but fun if it does.


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## irish

Truly impressive and completely inspiring. Thanks for taking your time to detail this build for us. Good luck in everything to come.


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## Panther

I love the Pyrrhobryum spiniforme moss at the base of some of the brooms you have in there! If you ever need to trim it back and have some extra, let me know!


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## shakti

The water return pipe. I wanted the return water to be dispersed/diffused so I made up this rig. I did a water test & it works great. Some water goes into the glass at the end, some straight back, most back at an angle. I plan to hide it in a fake rock.


Jim[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for sharing this build. I am learning a lot. Silly question, how do cut neat notches on PVC pipes like you did for the return pipe? Whats a good tool?

Thanks


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## fullmonti

If I remember right, I used the table saw & cleaned up the end of the cuts with a dremel tool. I have done a good bit of odd ball plumbing between this tank & saltwater fish tanks I've made. Here is a photo of the fresh water test of a saltwater tank I'm working on for a large sea anemone & clownfish. 



The T shaped thing above the water line sends the pumped water from one side to the other to create an alternating current like in the ocean.

Glad to share because I have also learned so much from forums like this & others sharing what they have done.

Thanks You & Marry Xmas to all!


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## fullmonti

Past time for a new FTS





When you see some thing ever day it's hard to judge how much it's changed. Looked at the last FTS & what a difference.

I have some other new photos but the wife just told me my presence is required else where right now. So more later.


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## austin

Dang man, awesome, just awesome!


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## fullmonti

House duties done for now so here are the other new photos






This is one of the newest brooms & has two pups & bloomed


My begonia is happier than it has ever been.


The shrooms keep growing.


This little vining orchid does't show up very well in photos but is very cute.


cropped in close up may help.

On a really sad note, I only have one anole left. Had three males that one by one just died. No fighting or aggression I ever saw & the dominate male from the pair that hung out together was the first to go, then the last anole female & then the long tail just yesterday. Only have one fat little female left. Not going to get any more unless I can find out what is going on. 


Found this baby long tail in the tank. There maybe is enough small bugs in the tank now for him to have a chance to live.

Again sadly I had been watching an egg I saw in the tank & when the baby showed up I checked to see if it came from that egg. That egg was still full but split some, so very gently opened it & this is what was inside.


They were crammed in that one egg so tight they were died. Broke my heart.


Apart from the lizards the tank is doing good & making progress on the new saltwater tank. So that's about it for now.

Jim


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## skanderson

beautiful display love to see how it has grown in.


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## jarteta97

I'm sorry about the deaths, it's hard to go through that, especially when you have no idea what's going on. On a happier note, though, your tanks is definitely one of my favorites


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## outrageouslyfabulous

What is that vining orchid? Looks like a Lepanthes sp.?


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## FroggyKnight

outrageouslyfabulous said:


> What is that vining orchid? Looks like a Lepanthes sp.?


I'm pretty sure it's another Trichosalpinx sp., probably T. chamaelepenthes 

Sent from my LGL34C using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

I was hoping no one would ask because I got it from an individual & didn't make a note of it's name. Mine has not bloomed but sure does look like what FroggyKight said.


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## outrageouslyfabulous

FroggyKnight said:


> I'm pretty sure it's another Trichosalpinx sp., probably T. chamaelepenthes
> 
> Sent from my LGL34C using Tapatalk


Thanks. It looks good.


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## eyadinuae

Really beautiful Paludarium ..

You can think about tropical tree snakes for the tank .. 

Thanks for your efforts and detailed explanation ..


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## jimmy rustles

fullmonti said:


> On a really sad note, I only have one anole left. Had three males that one by one just died. No fighting or aggression I ever saw & the dominate male from the pair that hung out together was the first to go, then the last anole female & then the long tail just yesterday. Only have one fat little female left. Not going to get any more unless I can find out what is going on.


Cant say thats the reason, but as I said ni the beginning of this thread, the anoles you chose prefer less humid conditions, in German-speaking forums they always warn people about keeping them too humid and not having a winter period. The A. roquet group mightve been a better choice, but hey cant say its the definite cause of it and the other lizards you got in there are nice on their own as well


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## ruairidh_

Oh...my...God... Just finished reading through pretty much all 41 pages XD and honestly, this tank is without a doubt we'll up with the top paladariums, it's an inspiring build. Sad to hear about the anoles  

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk


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## Lake

Wow, after looking at All these updates I'm wowed by how well this tank came out


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tomagood41

Well done!


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## rebelm

The little one in the mist has to be my favorite photo at this point in the thread. I'm sure there will be more as I keep reading. This whole thread is a great resource! Thank you for all your hard work!



fullmonti said:


> Got a couple photos of the anoles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They keep an eye on what I'm doing but aren't so skittish any more.
> 
> 
> This one got caught in the mist.
> 
> Still no ward on my skippers. I'm worried it might be to cold to ship them, or the person that was going to ship them to me is just covered up with work or something.
> 
> More later
> Jim


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## sumer

Any updates, Jim?


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## surferseatsharks

I am a total newbie and your shots have kept me encouraged while I am building my first viv. Thank you so much for sharing the beauty and artistry of your hard work. Please keep on sharing, I have read all your posts and it has been an amazing build.


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## oldlady25715

I wish more zoos had setups like this! 

You'd think with the screen top the anoles would have been able to dry out some. 

I'd put a male and some female multicolored basitimentos pumilio in there!


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## fullmonti

Time for some up dates & photos

A couple branches rotted to the point they gave way. It looks like manzanita wood under water lasts indefinitely & out side where it gets wet & then drys lasts for a very long time but when it stays wet from moss & misting but not submerged it will rot.


These are the branches that rotted that I took out to replace. 


This is the new branches in the tank but without any plants on them yet. The photo is an end view because that showed the placement of the branches best.


this is new branches with the plants transferred.


A little closer view.


A little later this one bloomed nicely. I just fertilize the plants with water from the fish tank part. Some orchids are doing just fine but some are not getting enough food & are doing poorly & a couple have died. All the other plants seem to be doing fine with just fish water for fertilizer.


This guys leaves are usually green but it is getting more light than it needs so the leaves have turned colors kinda like plant sun block.



Couple of broom blooms


This Begonia has really taken off lately!


Little orchid still bloomed even though it is being shaded out by the Begonia.


Another orchid that still blooms for me.


The little ivy fig has taken off too.

Thought I would through in a couple photos of my little 5gal saltwater tank.


Day time


Night time. Some of the corals feed at night so stay closed up during the day & open up to feed at night.


Bit of an older overall view but gives an idea of the shape of the tank & set up.
The filter is the thing in back of the cylinder tank. It sets in half of the mud room/my fish room, not a pretty little room but out of sight of the non fish lovers aka the wife.

Guess that's it for now, hope all are well & thanks for all the nice comments!


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## fullmonti

Don't know how I missed this one


This broom was mostly yellowish but has turned pinkish or little orangey red. It also has a nice pup coming out of the back.


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## ruairidh_

With the need for food, I have no idea if you do already or if it would even work but can you use the water from the water feature to put through your misting system? Or would that muck up the glass or block the misters? Looks amazing as usual  could we see some of the water section?
Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk


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## aguila_rapax

What begonia species is that one that took off late?? I like it a lot.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn D6603 met Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

ruairidh_ said:


> With the need for food, I have no idea if you do already or if it would even work but can you use the water from the water feature to put through your misting system? Or would that muck up the glass or block the misters? Looks amazing as usual  could we see some of the water section?
> Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk


I use ORDI water for the misting & it still does get the glass nasty so I'm pretty sure using tank water would be worse


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## ruairidh_

Yeah fair enough

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk


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## fullmonti

aguila_rapax said:


> What begonia species is that one that took off late?? I like it a lot.
> 
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn D6603 met Tapatalk



That is a Amphioxus begonia. Got it at Black Jungle & was a kind of expensive but really liked it so bit the bullet. If not in a hurry you could probably find it cheaper but I got it when I was just getting into this & didn't know so many of the options. Some one said they don't like to stay wet but this one has grown out to where it gets misted three times a day & seems to be happy.


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## aguila_rapax

Thanks for the info.


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## Greasy

Hmm is this Pleurothallis luctuosa? Looks nice.


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## frogboy99

this whole viv is awe inspiring the way things are laid out are abbsolutely amazing i hope everything goes well with that tank cause it is one in a million


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## fullmonti

Greasy said:


> Hmm is this Pleurothallis luctuosa? Looks nice.


Yes it is one of the orchids that have done the best with only fish water for hertilizer.


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## fullmonti

frogboy99 said:


> this whole viv is awe inspiring the way things are laid out are abbsolutely amazing i hope everything goes well with that tank cause it is one in a million


Thanks, it has been fun & a learning experience for sure.


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## fullmonti

I've been doing some remodeling at home and working on setting up a new saltwater tank so haven't checked in here for a good while. All is well with the tank and will have to take some new photos for an update post, soon.


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## Railrider1920

Hi Jim, 
Looking forward to seeing your updated viv pics.

I happened to come across this post by accident. When I have some time to sit and read all the pages I will. When I first saw the area where you have it, I thought I remembered seeing you build your SW tank there. Are there any pics of the old SW tank up online somewhere?
Thanks,
Rob


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## mtbrutger

Well I'm definitely going to have to get my hands on a Pleurothallis luctuosa asap! I've loved following the progress of this setup!


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## DanConnor

Hey Jim- if you get back here, quick question. I am finally moving on mine, and am wondering whether it's worth it to use starfire/low iron glass with 3/8th inch glass. Did you?


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## fullmonti

Sorry I didn't get a notice of your post & just now checking my thread. 

No I didn't use star fire glass & don't think it would be worth the extra money to do so.


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## fullmonti

Been a long time & have some new photos. I have said this thing has gone into a jungle but I guess that is the idea from the start.




couple over all shots


This begonia grows like a weed, I have whacked it back to a nub twice & about to do it again.

















Just some shots of how things are growing. 

Marry Xmas all!!


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## KiraVivariums

Wow! That is absolutely amazing! I love the striped brom and whatever is taking over that vertical section in the middle.


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## kromar

oh wow this is always a treat when you post some pictures it looks really jungely indeed, i love it!
how are the gekos doing? you had gekos in there right?


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## fullmonti

I had Anoles and loved them but they all lived for under a year. Only thing I can think of is they need a dormancy I can't provide with the set up I have. Also some of the little orchids have done fine with only fish water for fertilizer and some have slowly gone down hill. Over all it is a jungle but sadly with no animals but fish.


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## ninjazx777

What is the name of this brom and where can i buy one? 
Amazing vivarium please keep posting updates
Thank you 
Matt


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## fullmonti

It is a Cryptanthus 'Elaine'. I got it and most of my broms at Seabreeze Nursery but it looks like they are wholesale only now. Another place that have them is bromeliad.com

They are not cheap about $30. these are both grown babies from the one I bought about tree years ago


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## wimvanvelzen

Absolutely stunning gorgealizious!


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## harrisbt

fullmonti said:


> Also some of the little orchids have done fine with only fish water for fertilizer and some have slowly gone down hill. Over all it is a jungle but sadly with no animals but fish.


PDFs are animals that don't need dormancy and would provide fertilizer. Anthonyi would look awesome and do well in here. Some really sweet locales have come to the states in these last few years, too.


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## calebrez

Absolutely incredible! What is your misting schedule? And how often do you have to clean the glass?


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## fullmonti

Sorry i have not checked in here for quite a while. I mist three times a day and the glass needs cleaning just about all the time. I think i'd have to clean the glass every week or two to keep it looking good.

The tank is still running much the same, just more over grown. I haven't done much with it in a couple years now. we will be building a new house in the next 2-3 years. the new place will have a solar greenhouse attached. I have a loose plan for the greenhouse to be kind of a walk in vivarium. If you are interested please check out our Facebook page Cordwood House. It will be a vary unusual house, some what of a big art project. Go back to the beginning of the FB page for some reverence photos and info.


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## Philio

Very impressive build. And being an aquarist myself, I really enjoyed your water section. It turned out perfectly. But hey, so did the rest of the tank.


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## fullmonti

Well it's been a while and sad to say I broke this down this summer. We are going to move and build a new Cordwood house so we have been sorting and things out in preparation for the move. If you have any interest in what a cordwood house is we have a FB page called Cordwood House about the project. If you do check it out go back to the start of the page, it explains how it done and has photos examples.

When taking this apart, I found under all the moss on the branches, that had being going for some years now, there was dirt! I guess all the dead moss parts turned into nice rich dirt. Another thing I found was Manzanita wood underwater lasts a very long time, Manzanita wood outside in the open rain and all lasts a very long time, Manzanita wood under moss that is wet most of the time, rots fairly quickly. Some of the branches had rotted down to nothing.

Anyway it's been a great experience I have enjoyed and learn much from.

Thank You all
Jim


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## fullmonti

319K views, that is what the Thank You all is for !


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