# New 20 gallon river viv for M. expectata



## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

I just finished my 20 gallon that I am putting my M. expectata in, so I thought I would share some pictures. I know it isn't as extravagant as some of my previous ones, but it was limited space . ONce it grows in it will be much much nicer as well. I know I will get eggs out of them now, who wouldn't want to breed in that?? lol Here it is,



















Enjoy,

ed parker


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2006)

NICE!!
I know I wouldnt mind breeding in there. I think my bigger disapointment would be being small enough to fit in there and being in captivity.

Very nice viv.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2006)

I really like a well done corner pond. Good Job


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## vignolo (Mar 9, 2005)

Hi Ed

I'm always happy to see that the number of tanks you have grows faster than babies! 

I have some questions for you. I'm keeping five expectata in a 20 gallons, won't your tank be too wet with the river as expectata's dry season is about 7 months? Will you keep them at 25 degrees?

But it's amazing what you've been ale to fit in a 20 and the 3D effect with the plant in the front left gives more natural ways.

Thanks
PL


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Very very cool layout. This is the type of vegi-scaping I would like to do but always end up with too much open space.



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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Hey vignolo,

I made the river so I could do a more natural dry to wet transission for them. THey live in the dry west deserts of Madagascar, where they may only get rain a few months out of the year (like that temp chart you found). So, I can turn the river off, dry them for a while, and plug it in with heavy misting, and feeding. It so far has seemed to work well with my viridis, so I will definitely keep an update on how these guys do with this viv. IF you get mroe q's, let me know.

Thanks for the compliments guys, I am quite surprised I could do a river/pond in such limited space.

ed parker


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## vignolo (Mar 9, 2005)

Hi Ed

How many frogs are you gonna keep in this ?

PL


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

Whats the plant with the big purple leaves?
Looks good by the way.
-Frank


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2006)

defaced said:


> Very very cool layout. This is the type of vegi-scaping I would like to do but always end up with too much open space.


Mike, I like your tanks. They remind me of the llanos in brazil.

Matt


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Hello, thanks for the replies.

I am putting 5 M. expectata in there (well, i just put them in ) 3 boys and 2 girls is what it looked like. I have had most of them in my possession for almost a year, and the others for 6 months now, so I am looking forward to seeing how they do. They have been on quite a dry season the past 6 months or so now, so breeding may be just around the corner. 

The plant with the "purple" leaves is a pepperomia, can't remember species name. They are actually silver, I just haven't put in the good lighting yet as my local store was out of what I need. That lighting makes everything more red/purple than it really is though. I will find the tag and tell you the species name later on.

ed parker


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The peperomia is _Peperomia caperata_ aka Emerald Ripple Peperomia, comes in a bunch of different colors from solid green, green with silver "dusting", to the darker purplish silver ('Red Ripple'), red and green ('Burgundy Ripple'), to green with striations in the leaves, or combinations of pretty much all of the above. Its a wonderful plant for frog tanks, grows 6-8 inches tall depending on variety, and is believed to be from Brazil.


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## Devin Edmonds (Mar 2, 2004)

Cool tank Ed! I like all those large rocks you use in your mantella terrariums. What's been your observations of your expectata leg color? I've noticed that now that I've cooled and dried my group out their legs are bright neon blue again, but while they were warmer and wet they had gray legs. I would have assumed it would be the other way around, with the frogs displaying their best colors during the wet, breeding season. Why would their colors dull when it is warmer and moist? Have you noticed similar color changes?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

That's realling interesting... especially if you assume they have aposematic coloration... i would think the blue would help warn off predators if they were condensing in areas to breed (do they do that do you think? or hang around the streams all year?) tho if they were condensing during breeding I'm not sure they'd want to advertise it, especially if they have predators that would take advantage of it... hmmmm. Very interesting observation tho. I thought for a while the leg coloration was due to the individual. I wonder if the blushings would have the same pattern of color since they have such similar legs?


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## Devin Edmonds (Mar 2, 2004)

> i would think the blue would help warn off predators if they were condensing in areas to breed


Definitely, that's exactly what I thought. I was very surprised to see all of my expectata develop blue legs this time of year. The only other idea I had was that their leg color was related to stress, and maybe this "dry season" I'm giving them (no water, no misting, open screen top) is more natural or comfortable for them than the soggy wet period I simulated before this. I don't know, good stuff to think about though. Us mantella nerds on the board will have to play around with our expectata a little more and see if we can all see this pattern.


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## Ben_C (Jun 25, 2004)

> i would think the blue would help warn off predators if they were condensing in areas to breed


This **could*[/i][/u]* (tried to emphasize 'could' as much as possible hehhe) be a costly display to dull yourself out, and thus, show that you are a higher quality male. Although, if both genders change then I guess we've killed that hypothesis...

Anyway, cool observations!
~B


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## vignolo (Mar 9, 2005)

Hi

My expectata's legs are more bright blue in the early morning when the temperature is about 18 degrees C.

I'll check this week for a more characteristic answer about the way they change their legs color.

PL


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

just thought I might bring this back up.

Ed,

I will be acquiring my Friedrich energy star window AC next week.

I have a 20 gallon long tank that I will use.

Is that tank bulkheaded...or, how did you install the river? I made a nice little filter for my bombina by putting a zoomed micropump inside a pot with some filter floss, but obviously there will not be as much water.

Are you using a misting system?

That I'm still aware of, I have three betsileo, two males and a female. I have recently begun to hear calling again in my basement from (probably Flash) now that I increased the photoperiod and the basement has gotten a little warmer.

How many expectata are going in there?


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## lowdown (Apr 16, 2006)

That is great. I started to add a river to my 29g, but it cramped the whole thing up. You worked really well in the small space.


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Hey Doug,

Sorry I missed this. I have 5 expectata in that viv. I don't have a bulkhead, just a falsebottom witht he pump sitting under the rock pile. A water line feeds from the pump to the back of the rock pile. The river bed is made of cross stitch sheets they sell at craft stores, used for yarn things I think. I sillicone the entire thing, then add gravel. The rocks surrounding the bank are important, and I silicone the base to them to avoid over flows. It is actually very simple, and if you search my old construction photos on a 60 gallon I made for my school zoology department, you can see exactly how the river was made . Take care and let me know if you ahve any further questions.

ed parker


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

also to add, I haven't had the time to cycle them as I would have liked during the past few months, but they have been calling a TON. THey are definitely happy in this vivarium, but no sign of eggs yet. 

Ed Parker


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Cool. What is the temp of the tank water? and what is the temp of the room they are in? What model pump is it? I think zoomed micropumps work very well, but you can buy these tiny elite mini submersible filters that are the same thing (just with a filter pad) for $7 from thatfishplace. So far, my bombina tank has only heated up by about 3-4 degrees in the water, but I am not sure because normally I take the temp when the 27 watt CF screw in is turned on.

A problem I have repeatedly is the warming of the tank up to 76-78 when a water pump is added....one reason why I like bulkheads if I can get them installed. The little micropump doesn't heat up my bombina like the old maxijet power head did...I've been able to keep the tank temp about 73 degrees.

But for mantellas, there won't be as much water to counteract the heating, which I experienced with my tinc's old vivarium. ( it wasn't a problem when i had the water flowing through my vivarium cube due to evaporative cooling of the sump, but they aren't the most practical IMO for water features).


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