# What has changed in the past 10 years?



## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

For those who have been in the hobby for a while, what has changed to make it better or worse?

Technology?

Husbandry?

Enclosures?


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Supplements, both types out there and understanding of them....Better

Springs/Isos....I feel there is more of a stress on the importance of this for some species and also they seem to be used by a larger percentage of people then when I started....Better

Locale data.....I think this has both positive and negatives....I believe with the site specific frogs, some of the older non site specific frogs are getting pushed out the door. Demand for those seems to have went down. Lot's of new frogs in the hobby too, but I have noticed an in with the new, out with the old trend for some frogs.

IAD in Maryland.....I miss that show.

Oh and a good one around now...vendors that don't charge an arm and a leg for shipping of supplies.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

ndame88 said:


> For those who have been in the hobby for a while, what has changed to make it better or worse?


Those are pretty broad questions, but the "search" feature has made it much easier for newer hobbyists to get information.


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

I havent been in the hobby even close to 10 years, but it seems that clay substrates had a huge explosion of information and popularity since I started. Maybe they have been around longer though, I just dont know.


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

I think the biggest positive change that has happened in the last 10 years is Understory Enterprises coming into existence. Not only in the availability of frogs, but other contributions as well.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

You and me both - though it would be much tougher for me to get to nowadays.

s


mydumname said:


> ... IAD in Maryland.....I miss that show.
> 
> Oh and a good one around now...vendors that don't charge an arm and a leg for shipping of supplies.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Manuran said:


> I think the biggest positive change that has happened in the last 10 years is Understory Enterprises coming into existence. Not only in the availability of frogs, but other contributions as well.


Definitely been a huge step for getting this hobby on the right track. And now we have Wikiri, Tesoros, and CRARC all working through them!

I'm also gonna say one of this most important things that has happened is better handling of new imports before and after they get into the country. While there is still room for improvement, it's better than how it used to be.

Aside from that, husbandry is a big one. I think the accessibility to frogs and other hobbyists has definitely been an improvement as well.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I have nothing more to offer outside of whats been stated already ... but the obvious ones are husbandry, supplements, lighting, & of course medical care.

My thought provoking statement is this:
Weve seen new species come in & some disappear entirely.
We all have seen & witnessed all of these advancements; (both good & bad) ... imagine where we will be in another 10 yrs!


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

About 15 people on my friend`s list have vanished.

You jack offs could have at least said good bye.

John


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

mydumname said:


> Supplements, both types out there and understanding of them....Better
> 
> Springs/Isos....I feel there is more of a stress on the importance of this for some species and also they seem to be used by a larger percentage of people then when I started....Better
> 
> ...


Amen. 

Just wanted to add: Most of the frogs I couldn't afford 10 years ago- I can now...ha!


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Taxonomy 

When I got my first frogs, all my Oophaga and Ranitomeya were Dendrobates!

-Pat


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Um, how about the wealth of information now available to anyone with a connection to the internet.

Forums like this have enabled the success of countless froggers across the country and beyond. 

Just the ability to share useful information quickly and easily has to be near the top of the list IMO.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Not all of it is positive..... 

Greater reliance on cookbook husbandry techniques..... 

A lot of dogma continually passed around (examples, successful dart frog husbandry requires tightly sealed enclosures, RO water sucks minerals out of the frog etc........) 

Percieved status for keeping a wide variety of frogs/having rarer frogs (example... advertising collections in the signature section of posts....) 


some comments 

Ed


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

Everyone is 10 yrs older.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, I have to agree that the internet, the DB forum, and other internet based vendors have absolutly transformed this hobby. I started keeping darts almost 20 years ago. All there really was at that time, was the ADG (American Dendrobatid Group) and a few years after that Frognet. When I started, it was VERY hard to get darts. Local petshops didnt like to carry them unless special ordered/pre-paid. There was centralized place where people could buy/sell except reptile expos. And in the 90's reptile expos were just really begining. Colorado had none then. The next big advancements, at least to me: (1) Improvemnts in lighting technology now enable us to keep our frogs in beautiful, luxurious vivariums with a wise assortment of amazing plants. (2) I remember a friend of mine, Ryan Carr, had a few LARGE vivariums from The Vivarium Research Group (Phillip DeVosjoli), these were at the time the ONLY front opeing vivs in the country that were not custom made. I remember thinking how great and easily accessible those tanks were. They were unfortunatly only available for a short time, and very expensive. Today, there are at least a 1/2 dozen medium to large manufactureers in the states of various front opening vivs, ie exo terr, zoo med, tetrafauna, Protean, etc. (3) Improvments in feeder husbandry and more feeders. 15 years ago, it was 2 species of fruit fly, and 1 of sprign tails, and pinhead crickets. Today, to many sprigntail species to count, at least 4-6 species of Isopods, bean beetles, book lice, termites, firebrats, etc.
(4) And I totally agree on Understory Enterprises, SNDF, Wikiri, Tesoro, TWI, etc. Theres more to add, but my post is long enough.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Ed said:


> Percieved status for keeping a wide variety of frogs/having rarer frogs (example... advertising collections in the signature section of posts....)
> 
> 
> some comments
> ...


I'm guilty to an extent, but my collection is no longer large & I dont think I have any rare frogs unless I'm mistaken about their availability. 

Outside of the Escudo, if there's others on my list somebody please enlighten me


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Gamble said:


> I'm guilty to an extent, but my collection is no longer large & I dont think I have any rare frogs unless I'm mistaken about their availability.
> 
> Outside of the Escudo, if there's others on my list somebody please enlighten me


Mebalo and zaparo are both still pretty rare. And I doubt that is going to change much for the zaparo unfortunately...


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

thedude said:


> Mebalo and zaparo are both still pretty rare. And I doubt that is going to change much for the zaparo unfortunately...


I thought maybe there were more people with Zaparo ... but Im surprised by the Mebalo.
I thought they were a little more common. Didnt know they fell under the "rare" category.
Hopefully I can get them breeding one day & get them into more hands.
Thx for the info.


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

no one used leaf litter until last year (at least it seems that way). People probable did but it was no where near as common, and nobody said it was required.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I remember years back, moss seemed more popular. I agree, there has been more emphasis on leaf litter in more recent years.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Yeah, leaf litter was known to be more "natural" but it was not common practice. If you did not live in the southern states, there was no way to get it. Now, with many people gathering/selling it, not only is it common practice, but it is the best method for most species. I don't think it was known how beneficial ot could be to breeding, and a microhabitat for benefical food items like springtails and iso's. My Green Sirensis have been layign eggs in their film canisters like crazy lately, to the point I would have 3-4 clutches in one film canister (and liek this in all 6-7 film cans, so I took at all the film cans to give them a break. Nope.....they decided they would just as happily lay in the leaf litter. Now, despite no horizontal film cans, I'm still getting tads dropped off in the deposition cans......normally that'd be great, but I'm running out of deli cups and a place to raise the tads. I attribute that continued breedign activity to the leaf litter in the tank.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

pdfCrazy said:


> Yeah, leaf litter was known to be more "natural" but it was not common practice. If you did not live in the southern states, there was no way to get it. Now, with many people gathering/selling it, not only is it common practice, but it is the best method for most species. I don't think it was known how beneficial ot could be to breeding, and a microhabitat for benefical food items like springtails and iso's. My Green Sirensis have been layign eggs in their film canisters like crazy lately, to the point I would have 3-4 clutches in one film canister (and liek this in all 6-7 film cans, so I took at all the film cans to give them a break. Nope.....they decided they would just as happily lay in the leaf litter. Now, despite no horizontal film cans, I'm still getting tads dropped off in the deposition cans......normally that'd be great, but I'm running out of deli cups and a place to raise the tads. I attribute that continued breedign activity to the leaf litter in the tank.


Yea, so then you pull out all of the leaf litter ... to wake up the next day to tons of egg clutches all over the glass in the shape of a middle finger.

Its a tough life you're living!


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Been using it for years. It's still not required. It's just recommended.

s


ICS523 said:


> no one used leaf litter until last year (at least it seems that way). People probable did but it was no where near as common, and nobody said it was required.


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Somewhat of a price/rarity reverse in darts. 10-15 years ago Azureus were the $100+ dollar frogs, while histos an BJ's were $20 a pop. I remember Ed posting a link to a price list from the 90's which had some $10 BJ's. (If someone could find it, I'd love to *Cough weep Cough*, err see it again.

D


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendroguy said:


> Somewhat of a price/rarity reverse in darts. 10-15 years ago Azureus were the $100+ dollar frogs, while histos an BJ's were $20 a pop. I remember Ed posting a link to a price list from the 90's which had some $10 BJ's. (If someone could find it, I'd love to *Cough weep Cough*, err see it again.
> 
> D


Here is one of the threads http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/68452-old-price-list-4.html 


Ed


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

pdfCrazy said:


> My Green Sirensis have been layign eggs in their film canisters like crazy lately, to the point I would have 3-4 clutches in one film canister (and liek this in all 6-7 film cans, so I took at all the film cans to give them a break. Nope.....they decided they would just as happily lay in the leaf litter. Now, despite no horizontal film cans, I'm still getting tads dropped off in the deposition cans......normally that'd be great, but I'm running out of deli cups and a place to raise the tads. I attribute that continued breedign activity to the leaf litter in the tank.


Just quit pulling eggs and tadpoles. If they have to raise them then they will lay significantly less often. Much better for your frogs health, and the market for them.


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## Darren Meyer (May 22, 2004)

One thing that really sticks out for me is selling of breeding pairs . Lots of breeding out there and little to no effort or skills involved . Though I don't think it's a terrible thing . 
I just remember keeping Auratus for a year . Until I was succesful at breeding and finding good eggs . Beyond excited I called everyone I knew in the frog hobby .
Has that thrill deminished any with out of the box breeding ?
Happy frogging , 
Darren


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Darren Meyer said:


> One thing that really sticks out for me is selling of breeding pairs . Lots of breeding out there and little to no effort or skills involved . Though I don't think it's a terrible thing . .....
> ...
> Has that thrill deminished any with out of the box breeding ?
> Happy frogging ,
> Darren


 
Hi Darren,

While it isn't entirely a bad thing there are problematic elements to it... If we look at the hobby overall, we can see that there are frequently comments or references to people needing to get experience in breeding "easier" frogs before moving onto more "difficult" frogs... So instead of getting some froglets, raising them and figuring out the best method that works for your local conditions, instead we see a response by simply following a cookbook recipe, add an adult pair (which are often siblings), and breed them... rapid success and movement beyond the "newbie" status and able to get more "difficult" frogs without having any stigma attached to them.... 

Todays hobby has less emphasis on long-term keeping of the frogs as opposed to keeping a larger collection of "rarer" or more "difficult" frogs... 

Along the same line as the above trend, there is a lot of peer pressure on people (particularly newer people in the hobby) to set up enclosures that are often so heavily planted from the beginning that they can actual decrease appropriate habitat for the frogs (for example little to no floor space for the more terrestrial species), even before the plants begin to grow... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

Dendroguy said:


> Somewhat of a price/rarity reverse in darts. 10-15 years ago Azureus were the $100+ dollar frogs, while histos an BJ's were $20 a pop. I remember Ed posting a link to a price list from the 90's which had some $10 BJ's. (If someone could find it, I'd love to *Cough weep Cough*, err see it again.
> 
> D


when i was first interested in frogs my local nature inspired store (friends pet shop) had blue jeans for 35 a piece. i was not interested because they were so small and it was pretty much one of the first dart frogs that i ever saw. never did see any histos but my friend also had retics for 20.


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