# Pumilio - Same or Different Morph?



## bmasar (Dec 13, 2007)

I just received a sexed pair of orange pumilio. I'm not very experienced with most of the pumilio morphs (I have Man Creek, and that's it). I want to get the board's opinion of my situation. I had been shown pictures of the group they came from. When I took my first peek at my new acquisition, I noticed immediately that these might not be the same morph. Now I know pumilios from the same morph can vary a lot, but this much? Since I asked for a sexed pair, and as a responsible hobbyist, I'm uneasy about potentially breeding them if they are indeed a different morph or locality.

Please let me know what you think. Here is my thought: the solid orange frog is either a Nancy/Solarte or El Dorado. The white bellied frog may be a peach basti, but it doesn't really have the numerous spots of a basti, just a few.

After browsing this, Oophaga pumilio Morphguide I've considered it could be possible that the solid orange frog is a Nancy/Isla Solarte locality 2, while the white bellied frog is a Nancy/Isla Solarte locality 3. Is this likely? I'm not sure I've seen any Nancies from this third locality in the common hobby.

I suppose the questions I'm convolutedly trying to ask are:

1. Do these look like the same morph? If not, any guesses? Specifically about the white belly.
2. Are white bellied Nancies in the hobby?
3. If these where both Nancy/Isla Solartes, would it be dicey to breed such differing localities?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

thats a tough one. id have to say that neither look like a solarte. solartes (from what ive seen) usually have white toes, and i dont recall ever seeing large patches of black on the legs either.

did the seller tell you that they were morph "x" or just orange pumilio?

the best bet is tracking the history of the frogs and asking who did you get these from and when and then contacting that person, and on and on, until you get to the importer, etc. who can give you a definite answer. some frogs however never come in with locality data (like those sometimes seen on KS ads for unusually low prices) these should never be mixed with any frog not from that specific import and even then his may not be advisable.

james


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

I would say definitely different morphs for sure, the yellow one looks like a basti to me, plus the white belly is pretty much a give a way i woudl say. The other looks to be an orange solarte, never heard of a white belly one.


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## jcarbone61 (Apr 27, 2008)

I would say you have an El Dorado and a Blasti morph


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## bmasar (Dec 13, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the Nancy/Isla Solarte Locality 2 (I have it wrong in my original post) from the Morph Guide. These do look like my white belly, specifically the black markings at the hips:



















Though like I mentioned, I'm not sure these are common in the hobby.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Did the person you bought them from not provide any information on these frogs? Have you asked them any of these questions?


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## bmasar (Dec 13, 2007)

I've been in contact with them but I also wanted to hear what the board had to say, specifically what you guys thought about breeding them if they did happen to be different localities of Nancy/Solarte.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

bmasar said:


> Here are some pictures of the Nancy/Isla Solarte Locality 2 (I have it wrong in my original post) from the Morph Guide. These do look like my white belly, specifically the black markings at the hips:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As far as I have heard none of this morph have shown up in any importations to the US, some Nancy's have come in but they are the typical orange Nancy with white toes/feet and a few have black spots but no white bellies. 
Looks like you have 1 Bastimentos and 1 El Dorado type, the majority of basti's have lots of black spots but many have few or almost no spots almost all have mostly white bellies.


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## bmasar (Dec 13, 2007)

markpulawski said:


> As far as I have heard none of this morph have shown up in any importations to the US, some Nancy's have come in but they are the typical orange Nancy with white toes/feet and a few have black spots but no white bellies.
> Looks like you have 1 Bastimentos and 1 El Dorado type, the majority of basti's have lots of black spots but many have few or almost no spots almost all have mostly white bellies.


Yup, the white belly pretty much sealed it for me. I just wanted to make sure about the locality 2 Nancy/Solarte. Never seen them in the hobby before.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

markpulawski said:


> As far as I have heard none of this morph have shown up in any importations to the US...


Actually that's not entirely accurate. There are some around and I can tell you that without a doubt that neither of these frogs are those. I can say that confidently because I have seen them in person ( I had them) and the Solarte form 2 that you are asking about is MUCH smaller than the regular Solarte or Basti morphs... about half the size. These are not the Solarte 2 morph for sure.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

again identification by a method such as asking for an id from members is NOT good enough to breed frogs and sell them as morph "x" unless the seller you purchased them from is contacted (and in some cases this may not be good enough either, since some wholesalers dont care to require information from exporters) and you track the history of the frogs you cant honestly sell them as "x" because you dont know.

just throwing that out there.
james


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

I agree. I wouldn't be satisfied breeding based on the conjecture or a few forum responses. My vote is 1 basti, 1 el dorado, but that still doesn't help your situation much.



james67 said:


> again identification by a method such as asking for an id from members is NOT good enough to breed frogs and sell them as morph "x" unless the seller you purchased them from is contacted (and in some cases this may not be good enough either, since some wholesalers dont care to require information from exporters) and you track the history of the frogs you cant honestly sell them as "x" because you dont know.
> 
> just throwing that out there.
> james


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