# A good hydroton substitute?



## MosquitoCoast (Nov 16, 2009)

What could I buy at Home Depot or Lowes that would be a good substitute for Leica/Hydroton balls?


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## Boboluke (Apr 12, 2013)

If going the route of Home Depot or Lowes you could always go with egg crate and pvc supports.

I personally hit a local hydroponics grow shop for hydroton. I pay about $1.50 per gallon. If I ask for 10 liters or less they usually just scoop a bunch into a shopping bag and just give it to me.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Theres PVC/Eggcrate as Bob said ... or you can use Turface or Growstones.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

turface is NOT a good substitute. The smaller particle size means that you have proportionatley more wicking of water per cm2 than you do with hydroton, meaning that the rate at which the water travels up from your " drainage layer" to your substrate is dramatically increased. 

Get the egg crate/pvc


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

frogparty said:


> turface is NOT a good substitute. The smaller particle size means that you have proportionatley more wicking of water per cm2 than you do with hydroton, meaning that the rate at which the water travels up from your " drainage layer" to your substrate is dramatically increased.
> 
> Get the egg crate/pvc


Cant u buy the larger size stuff?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

large sized turface is still far too small a particle. the tighter the space between particles, the more you increase the capillary action potential of water in the system. 

To me, hydroton is even too conducive to this capillary action. I know lots of people use it, and if you have a built in drain Im sure it works great, but for a closed system where water accumulates I would not suggest it. 

If your tank has a drain, especially one that is constantly draining, then you can use any drainage layer you want.


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## Dweezy247 (May 2, 2013)

Im new to dart frogs,but have done the terrarium setup in tanks from 20 gallon to 55 gallon with false bottoms for carnivorous plants,I use lava rock from home depot.I wash it in boiling water,but have no drain just have a 10 gallon internal aquarium filter and I use a turkey baster or a aquarium siphon to empty water if need be,but usually is good for months without anything other than tannin build up.Lava Rock was easy to find and cheap,and works well for me.


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## MosquitoCoast (Nov 16, 2009)

Here's the deal...Where I'm at it's been at least 105 f for the last two weeks. Yesterday it was 110 and today it's going to be 111. I've got Leuc froglets coming out of my ears, the whole southwest is scortchin' and I think it's too hot to ship even if it's overnight, and I need to set up a lot of temporary Sterilite or Rubbermade tubs just to gro out these guys. And the worst part, I'm halfway between SF and LA and Hooterville where I'm living is lucky just to have running water and electricity. Did I mention that even though it's CA the idiots that run these small towns still have K rally's up in the hills.

And to think, I left Burbank for a more bucolic way of life.

Oh, and the "hydroponic store" employees in the next town over freak-out when strangers come into the store.

Have any of you ever lived in this kind of heat. I start hallucinating and begin losing my mind. I turned the air-conditioning on at 10:30 am this morning!

Bottom line...Are lava rocks safe to use in place of hydroton temporarily?

Thank God there's a big clutch of Dart Froggers up in Seattle. I've been threatening to move up to WA for years and now it's probably going to happen.

One more thing - My trio has been throwing out a lot of orange froglets. Only time will tell if they will keep this orange coloring. I've only used Repashy Calcium Plus on the adults and froglets. Will they grow out of this color?


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## Boboluke (Apr 12, 2013)

MosquitoCoast said:


> Have any of you ever lived in this kind of heat. I start hallucinating and begin losing my mind. I turned the air-conditioning on at 10:30 am this morning!


I'm in Phoenix. I'm shocked it's under 110 today. My A/C has no 'off' switch from May-September.

I have never tried lava rocks, but I believe I have seen posts of others that have.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

MosquitoCoast said:


> Oh, and the "hydroponic store" employees in the next town over freak-out when strangers come into the store.


That made me laugh so hard I cried a little
But even though they are paranoid I'm sure they will sell you some grow stones? Otherwise it's a terrible business model

But lava rocks should be just fine too.


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## MosquitoCoast (Nov 16, 2009)

Boboluke said:


> I'm in Phoenix. I'm shocked it's under 110 today. My A/C has no 'off' switch from May-September.
> 
> I have never tried lava rocks, but I believe I have seen posts of others that have.


As far as my last post, don't get me wrong, I love the desert. I love AZ and NM and I get a kind of a spiritual feeling whenever I've been there. I once considered moving to Sedona because it always reminds me of western Australia. I used to work in the motion picture business as a unit production manager and on one shoot we were in a place called ArcoSanti that is north of Phoenix. It was late August and it was hot as Hades and all of the crew and actors were from LA and they couldn't handle the heat. They were throwing up and crapping their pants and passing out...it was a really a bad experience. 

The thing is that I live in CenCal and it's a lot hotter here now than it was when I was in high school(late seventies).

I'm just looking for a big bag of something that's safe that I can use in the place of hydroton to make about three tubs.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

How long are you planning on housing them in the sterlites? I dont use a drainage layer in my temp/QT tubs because they really wont be in there long enough to accumulate much water


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

If its just for grow out tubs, use whatever you want. Temporary tubs are easy to deal with. Gravel will be just fine


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

As some others have mentioned, if they are just temp grow outs you can use gravel from a pet store. If they are already morphed froglets, I sometimes just use a thick layer of sphagnum, around 2-3 inches, then some abg and some leaf litter. Sometimes I'll throw in some begonias or something that doesnt require much light to give the little ones some additional places to hide and climb on. Just make sure you are misting regularly and that the substrate is staying moist as you don't want them to dry out.


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## MosquitoCoast (Nov 16, 2009)

Sammie said:


> That made me laugh so hard I cried a little
> But even though they are paranoid I'm sure they will sell you some grow stones? Otherwise it's a terrible business model
> 
> But lava rocks should be just fine too.


Maybe if I showed-up in a VW bus they wouldn't get all uptight!

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions. I'll go ahead and use lava rocks if they're safe. I was just worried about them leaching something back into the soil by way of the water.

The frogs will only be in tubs temporarily. I have several large aquariums that I'm setting up right now just to get the froglets to 3-4 ootw.

This incredible heat really affects my vivariums, causing the temperatures inside to climb along with the humidity. It's funny...when the temps are in the 50's it's so easy to keep the vivariums at an exact and constant temp/humidity.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Airs ability to hold water dramatically shifts with temperature. Hot air holds much more moisture


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## Cfrog (Oct 28, 2011)

Might be a silly question but, can these be used(the small ones)? They take up more room, cheap, light weight.....


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## MosquitoCoast (Nov 16, 2009)

Maybe for a fish wet/dry system.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Amazon.com: Dawn Polymesh Scrubbers, 2 Count: Home & Kitchen

Something like this would probably work and would be very cheap 6 for a buck at a dollar store.

There are also lots of rocks used for covering gardens etc that would work if you can get them in a smaller size. pea gravel etc.. You just look at any landscape / stone place. Some home depots might sell grow stones but I could not find them at mine.


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