# Retic Disease *HELP*



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I have 3 new retics that have developed a skin disease. I have never seen or had to deal with a problem like this and need some complete advice as to what I am dealing with, how fatal or what the consequences are of the skin disease, and what is the cure. I also need to know if and how this is transmitted. the frogs are and have been quarantined for the week under my care but I do have some 40 PDF in the house that I am greatly concerned over. Also is the tank they are in infected and have to be cleaned out? Please review the picture and give me advice if you have real experience with this. So far I used Triple Sulfa and mixed it in 16oz of water and soaked the frogs in this bath for a 1/2 hour. The picture I am sending is the worst and the best one the 3rds condition is in the middle. I will obviously continue to keep these quarantined. The one in the worst condition has shown this sense Thursday-Friday last week, I thought it was a wound or scrap of some kind. The second one probably was started Saturday-Sunday but because I hadn’t seen them together confused that I was looking at 2 frogs and just thought it was the lighting angle for the difference in the smudge. Last night is when I saw two at once with the smudge and then seeing the third was alarming.


----------



## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

Just some possibilites...potentially a result of contact plants with insecticides, fertilizers; were the frogs possbly infected when you bought them, or were they introduced to other frogs or materials that were possibly infected?


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

There was some discussion on frognet this winter about a breeder that had retics mysteriously "regaining" black color, and then dieing.
Have you tried contacting any vets?


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

they went in a tank that has been established for over 6 months and had larger frogs in it, but no thumbnails. It could be that the retics are just more fragile. They have been taken out and are quarantined each in their own small container and being watched closely. If it were something like fertilizers, what should I do and should I be concerned that this is fatal?

This dying issue is no good. Was a cure recommended that worked or was there only failure?


----------



## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

Could your retics have possibly gotten sick from the other frogs in the tank? The larger frogs might not show any signs of being sick, but may carry some kind of infection. The fertilizer issue most likely would have shown up with the larger frogs, so you can probably rule that out. Generally speaking, I would not use plants treated with fertilizers, and would most certainly not use fertilizers in my tanks.


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I should've been more precise. There used to be large frogs in the tank but the retics where and are all alone. They may have picked something up out of the tank. All the frogs I have do not show anything and I have never lost a frog sense getting back into the hobby.


----------



## Guest (Jun 22, 2005)

*Retics*

Are they acting odd They seem to look really healthy other than what you have described.Who knows maybe they will make it.Did you feed your larger frogs crickets I am curious cauz those little suckers can do some damage to a frog that is stressed from shipping etc.
I dont mean physically hurt the frogs.I have had mantellas get a little under the weather.I couldnt figure it out I took all precautions but they still died I looked back and realized I started feeding crickets.I am not saying this is the problem but ya never know.I hope they get better they are beautiful frogs.
later


----------



## vet_boy77 (Feb 10, 2005)

Any change in the frogs' behavior? If there is a water feature, do they like to soak in it? I have had some skin irritation's break out in some of my frogs for no apparent reason. Other than the discoloration, they also tended to sit in water more often. You might have better luck with silver sulfadiazine (burn) cream if this a bacteral infection. Trauma and fungal infections are also other possibilities. A vet should be able to do a skin scrape, and that might help narrow it down. 
Best of luck.
John


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I never do crickets any more I had bad experiences with crickets 6 years ago and swore them off. My vet ordered silver sulfadiazine for me and it comes in on friday. My vet really has no experience with dart frogs and while he is facinated that I have them and is helpful but practically he is not knowledgable. I think PDF 101 was a class he though he wouldnt need. The Retics actually seem perfect other than the skin condition and it does seem to be getting worse. I have a stream and ponding area in the 29 that they were in and didnt use it at all, they are now in small containers with no water source.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I had a issue like that on my Azureus and the silver sulfadiazine worked. It took a bit to go away, but did. Also it is not normally a good idea to put frogs in a used tank without gutting it and cleaning it out. Not to say it will always cause an issue, but if the first frogs had anything it could stick around in the soil and etc. Always safer to gut it and or use a completely new tank.


----------



## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

*another possibility*

The irritation could also be as a result of the frogs burrowing, digging, or squeezing into tight spots. I think the silver sulfadiazine cream is an excellent idea. I used that cream to deal with similar irritations and cuts. Check out David Frye. You can find his info on Frye Brothers site.


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

*Thanks everyone*

Thanks everyone! I(we) have been able to identify the source(from the vendor), but not what it is. Other frogs from this vendor are showing up with this skin condition apparently after shipment and stress is on the frogs. I will be using the silver sulfadiazine cream treatment and will post the results. If there is still anyone who can say with certainty what it is would be great. The one thing I noticed about this shipment different than any other I received was this vendor put springtails in the container with the frogs???? I am just starting to use springtails and have no familiarity with any issues they bring to the picture. Maybe it is best not to send frogs with food? possibly this increases stress or something?


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

*mix silver sulfadiazine cream*

how do you mix the silver sulfadiazine cream? How much water to cream?


----------



## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

I always bought the cream premixed from Dr. Frye, I have no idea how to do it myself. Best of luck!


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

How are the retics doing dmatychuk?


----------



## ryalan (Mar 19, 2005)

*From Peru*

I have seen lots of times this case from wild caught ones, but if the damage is not too big will heal soon, but if you're using that cream and feeding well I think no problem.. usually it happens when are bad handled during catch of transport


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

rozdaboff thanks for asking on the condition of the frogs, they are alive and well looking but the spot on each grew a little more on each sense the picture and turned darker. It does not seemed to have changed for the last 4 days.

I dont think this is something that came from shipping or mishandling because the vendor who sold me the pair had at least one other that developed the same problem.


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I have now added Tolnaftate which is an anti-fungal(over the counter) creme and added it to the silver sulfadiazine(Vet prescribed) cream and mixed with water. The Retic that had the smallest smudge spot seems to be getting better the other two with larger spots are the same. I will update when I have used this new mix for a while.

This is now 100% identified that it came from the vendor. the vendor has not been able to get information back from their vet as to identifying what it is and the source has not been identified or at least I have not been told.


----------



## Guest (Jul 10, 2005)

If it can be determined that a vendor is knowengly sending out frogs with ailments why not list their name on his site? I am seriously considering ordering some thumbnails and knowledge of any unethical organizations would benefit the majority that use this site and the hobby in general. 

I suppose that if it is a one time anomaly that a specimen with a skin ailment is sold and shipped unintentionally the vendors name should be emitted. But if this is a common or intentional practice by all means please name them as it could help many others who have collections that could be at risk by adding a new specimen--even if proper quarantine measures were applied. 

As this hobby of denrobatid care and captive proliferation grows it is of the upmost importance to be sure that is protected from unscrupulous individuals out to make a qiuck buck while not providing the optimal care and environment for their stock.

Sites such as this one are the best leverage consumers have against questionable enterprises.

"Ethical Aaron"


----------



## mack (May 17, 2005)

hey aaron, this is actually a can of worms issue here on the dendroboard right now. check out the feedback section for the moderators.


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

The vendor to my knowledge has not advertised on this board sense they became aware of the issue. I also would have serious concern if they did because you are right, I felt that this put my entire collection at risk and I also would not want that to happen to anyone else. 4 years ago I lost over 50 PDF to receiving a frog with a very contagious disease and i got out of the hobby for 2 years because of it. I will not name the vendor because they have been reputable, fourth coming, and very helpful with me and another individual who received frogs with the same condition. I also will not because as mack said this is an issue dendroboard is dealing with already and I don't want the pain that comes with it right now. If the vendor did sell frogs before it is discovered what the problem is and if it can be reasonably resolved I will PM the Joe or the monitors to see what appropriate action can be taken.


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2005)

*sick retic*

I was just curious is it actually beneficial to mix the two drugs together. I know that if a human takes antibiotics there are some vit minerals etc that render them useless I am just wondering if maybe you should apply seperate or did vet say it was cool.
later


----------



## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

I really don't know but the vendor is the one who made the recommendation after looking into it.


----------



## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

Have you contacted Dr. Frye? I seem to remember a discussion on frognet 6 months or so ago about the same or similar problem with retics that was started by David. He may have come up with a more effective treatment.


----------

