# T-5 lighting for the tank and a Mist King kit - lets discuss



## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

This is a 2 part system of lighting and misting: 

Alright I am wanting to get a new tank going here soon and need to start the planning process. 

I plan on keeping plants, orchids, bonsai tree and bromiliads and perhaps some other various small plants. 

Now I would really like to use a T-5 light because you are able to use so many different color combination bulbs, they are very efficient, put out a lot of high quality light and stay pretty cool. 

here is a decent unit...

http://www.cadlights.com/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=68

so to me it seems like this is a perfect match for a viviarium. 

Does anyone have any experience with a T-5 light unit? 

Is this in any way shape or form a bad idea to use on a Vivivarium? 

The dimensions on the tank are going to be 24x24x20 roughly. 

would I need some type of computer style fan sucking any air out to keep good ventilation? 

part 2: 

Misting systems. 

I want to automate this system as much as possible and well, a misting set up is a great choice for that. 

I am thinking of putting two nozzles in the tank, spread out evenly against the top back of the wall. 

I am only familar with Mist King, they seem kind of pricey. 

Does anyone know of any other high quality Misting system that only utilizes a 2 nozzle system? 

thanks.


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## jcgso (Oct 10, 2008)

The bulbs in that fixture are for a reef aquarium. It's kind of expensive and you would still have to buy the proper color temp bulbs. 



psychedelicwonders said:


> This is a 2 part system of lighting and misting:
> 
> Alright I am wanting to get a new tank going here soon and need to start the planning process.
> 
> ...


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

I use T-5 Lighting for my large tank. Generally you want to use bulbs that are as close to the daylight bulbs as possible. 6500k-6700k. 

I use a sunleaves set up w/ four grow bulbs at 6500k. So you don't need different color bulbs, to be honest the fancy colored bulbs will really not make a difference and not worth the money.

As far as misting systems go, mistking does have very good systems and they have even just come out with a discount setup that isn't as pricey. Just remember the more automation you put into your system the more things can go wrong, and for some reason they usually do. In my opinion mistking systems are great and fun to watch but I would only use them if you are going to be setting up a a rack or a very large tank. If you are not then just get a pesticide sprayer from home depot or lowes. Those work great, and it will save you $150-$200 more for frogs and plants.


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## tkromer (Dec 20, 2007)

That setup looks great except as the others have mentioned the bulbs are the wrong color. You want 5500-7000K (preferably right about 6700K) lights. All the fancy colored bulbs in a viv will just give different hues to your viv (which is fine) but they won't help your plants grow. The reef setups have "bluer" lights because that is what sunlight appears as underwater and is designed to help corals grow.

Can't help you a whole lot with misting, I use spray bottles...


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah I realize that particular setup with those color of bulbs are for reef tanks (i also have a reef tank, so I am very familar with pretty much everything)

I will focus on the 6500-6700 color for the day time bulbs, I figure on a 24x24x20 cube, only a 4 bulb unit will be required.

As with my reef tank, I am really into the "24 hour lighting" 

Basically I have my daytime light, my evening light (actinics) and my night time lights of blue LED's.

Now I would like to get the same effect with my PDF, perhaps I will use red LEDS instead of blue for them though, still up in there air right now.

With the 4 bulb unit, I am goign to focus on 2, day time bulbs and then will more than likely use the other 2 bulbs as the "evening" (actinics) viewing and make them either blue, pink or purple depending on what looks the best.

I realize these bulbs do nothing for actual growth, (much is the same way with corals), but allows 24 hour viewing of the tank inhabitats without distrubing them.

Which is basically what you guys have told me that it wont disturb the frogs.

CRB - you mentioned these Sunleaves T-5 models, how are the quality of them? Are they fairly priced?

Now I also know that the more automation, the more that can go wrong with the tank, which is something I've learned over the years from reef tanks, but I dont see how much could go wrong with the mister setup?

And I really like the idea of not having to worry about them getting dried out or not, so the mist system is a def must for me.

I see they have these "value" kits, but what is the difference in the nozzles?

Just cheaper material?

At that point, the "nicer" more expensive nozzles dont seem to be that much more than the value, so depending on which nozzle I need, I may just upgrade and get the best the first time around.

Is this pesticide sprayer automated in any way? Or is is just a fancy spary bottle?

thoughts?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I've got a 24"x24"x24" viv and I'm only running 2 26w t5's. It is more than enough light. My broms are all getting a nice reddish hue, I've got java moss growing like mad and I have to prune nearly once a week. I think 4 bulbs will be way too much.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

So since the bulbs I will more than likely be using will be more than 26W each, I will go with the 10k over the 6700 to slow growth.

I will only use 2 of the 4 for daytime and the other 2 I will make blue, pink or purple for night time.


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## psychemjr (Jan 6, 2008)

You might find that the actinics will be too bright. Other than color temps the other factor is lumens, the intensity of the light. If you really wanted an evening light you might find have better luck with a 3/4 w LED. 
As far as the misting goes. I would go with Mist King. the cost is worth it.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Using t5's as moonlights will be too much. Unlike a reeftank where a whole new way of life starts up at night, the frogs just want to sleep. Your best bet is to use led moonlights like are insanely popular in reefs. I still doubt your going to see enough at night to make them worthwhile.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

hmm. I'm not going to use the T-5's as moonlights, I will use the LED's as moonlights.

here is the schedule I am thinking...

9 am - 10k T5's turn on
6pm - Actinics turn on
630 pm - 10k's turn off
11 or 12 pm - actinics turn off
12 pm - 9 am - LEDS are on (not sure if i do red or blue yet, does anyone have suggestions which color is best over all)

this schedule allows me to see inside the tank 24 hours a day and shouldnt disturb their sleeping pattern should it?

That gives them basically 9 hours a day to sleep... is that enough?

The lights I have seen for reef tanks usually have high Watts, around 55 perhaps?

Do T-5 lights made for plant tanks have models with lower wattages?


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

Well since you have been in the reef hobby you probably know there are different types of t-5 lighting as well. There are the VHO and the HO. The setup I use is an HO with bulbs that run about 24watts per bulb.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah I just checked the 24" units and they seem to come with 24W bulbs.

So i guess I'm good.

Now I just have to find a 24" unit that I like and one that hopefully has LED'S built in. (this is common with reef lighting)

What color leds should I use?

Blue or red?

And why?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I like the white led's personally. I think if your going to have moonlights you might as well make them as close to the color of moonlight as possible. The blues are used in reefs so they penetrate the tank to deeper levels. Water filters out blue last.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

actually now, the white leds are kind of making their way into the reef hobby.

Let me ask this, is red leds a preferred method of color for frogs?

or it honestly doesnt matter what color i do?

Mist King:

how many nozzles would be needed for a 24x24x20 tank?

1 or 2?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

psychedelicwonders said:


> actually now, the white leds are kind of making their way into the reef hobby.
> 
> Let me ask this, is red leds a preferred method of color for frogs?
> 
> ...


Many of the fixtures that we sell at our shop have both white and blue intalled on them these days. I think it's just going to be what you prefer. 

Your probably going to want 2 nozzles and get the ones that are swiveling. I currently just have a single nozzle mounted flush with the top and while it sprays everything it also hits my front glass. I've got two on order so I can redirect some of the flow to the front too keep the glass water free.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

Do you have a link to the lights you sell at your shop?

I know red is usually used because reps cant see the light and seem to be more active... but I guess this isnt a concern with these frogs since they will be sleeping during the time I have my leds on and just comes down to what I prefer and what I think looks better?

When you say swivel, is that just to point it initially, or does it actually swivel as the water sprays out of it?


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

bump on last post...


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm on my phone so I can't get you a link at the moment. I'll try and get one posted tonight. 

As for the nozzles, most of the mistking nozzles should work.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

Alright sweet, but 

I know red is usually used because reps cant see the light and seem to be more active... but I guess this isnt a concern with these frogs since they will be sleeping during the time I have my leds on and just comes down to what I prefer and what I think looks better?

When you say swivel, is that just to point it initially, or does it actually swivel as the water sprays out of it?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

The color of the moonlights is going to be preference. You are correct with the red light info though. 

The swivel action is just for initial aiming. The don't spin while running.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

Nice.

I'm thinking of going with the red LED's, it will give it more of a jungle look and contrast the blue from my reef tank awesome.

I am even going to get one of those little mini fog machines to put on at night during the red LED's.

It will look really cool with the red.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

How many spray nozzles should I have in a 24x24x24?

1 or 2?

I was thinking about brining them in through the back wall, but I think that the spray would mostly hit front glass unless I put a real long nozzle on so taht I can then turn and aim it backwards, pointed away from the front pane.

Plus I would assume misting the plants and not the front pane would would be healthier overall also.

I guess winding them up and drilling down through the top middle and pointing down/at a back angle is the best route?


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

I'd say 2 nozzles, put them near the front at the top and aim towards the back


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

I've been told to not drill through the back.

Why would it be a bad idea to drill through the back?

Because of the nozzles being pointed towards the front glass, getting it all wet so you cant see and not the middle-back?

I had to have those tubes be shown on the top of the tank... takes away from the super clean look I am shooting for.

Any other alternatives or a way to hide the pipes?

(I guess if I am using clear acrylic for the top, there isnt going to be much we can do here huh?)


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

Back is usually where the moisture is. You don't want to have holes in the back in case water will ooze out. It's also hard to mist the back if the nozzles are on the back wall. I think it's better to have the tubing on the outside of the tank, then on the inside. I'm assuming you'll have lights on top, so there goes the clean look. Put a canopy over the lights and misting system and it will look sharp


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

Marty said:


> Back is usually where the moisture is. You don't want to have holes in the back in case water will ooze out. It's also hard to mist the back if the nozzles are on the back wall. I think it's better to have the tubing on the outside of the tank, then on the inside. I'm assuming you'll have lights on top, so there goes the clean look. Put a canopy over the lights and misting system and it will look sharp



What makes the back collect all of the moisture?

I would assume the holes that the nozzles come through would be sealed tight correct?

I wouldnt have any other holes, so I dont think water would ooze out?

The only thing I could think of is to have the pipes come through the back, attach to the top some how via clamps, only come to about half way into the tank and then have the nozzles point down and towards the exact middle so I dont get any over spray on the sides.

Or I have the tubes go over top like you suggested. Not sure which way I really want to go.

I now kinda think it will work either way.

What dont you like about keeping the feed lines inside the tank?

Let me ask this, how big is the actual mist king pump?

And I am going to hang the light via a silver candy cane hook to hold the light... so its going to be pretty clean.

Here is a link to my reef tank...

Reef Central Online Community - Nano Bow Tank

Eventually I'm going to turn that little bow into a 1" acrylic cube that is 24x24x20

So I want them to match, I am going to have another stand built just like my first one and do the same light hanging situation, but this time with a T-5 unit.

I am then going to make a 1/4" acrylic tank like this one for my display for the viv/PDF though...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/VicSkimmr/60 gallon vivarium/DSCN4885.jpg


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

psychedelicwonders said:


> What makes the back collect all of the moisture?


Usually there are plants that are watered, drip walls, misting, waterfalls, moist soil, etc. Not sure what you'll have on the back, but it's usually a wetter area.



psychedelicwonders said:


> I would assume the holes that the nozzles come through would be sealed tight correct?


not quite. There is a bulkhead with 2 nuts on it. Both nuts are movable so potentially water could seep through along the thread. The Value nozzles have only 1 nut, so you could place an o-ring or a gasket and make a 100% water tight seal.




psychedelicwonders said:


> What dont you like about keeping the feed lines inside the tank?


Extra clutter, take away from natural looking viv IMO.



psychedelicwonders said:


> Let me ask this, how big is the actual mist king pump?


It's pretty big and heavy. Guesstimating, about 7-8" I think about 3-4 lbs. 



psychedelicwonders said:


> And I am going to hang the light via a silver candy cane hook to hold the light... so its going to be pretty clean.
> 
> Here is a link to my reef tank...
> 
> ...


OK, I see what you're doing now. If you're going to use great stuff foam, I guess you could run and hide the tubing inside the tank, and just stick the nozzles out. Though it may be a lot more extra work and if anything happens, maintenance will pretty much be impossible. I'd probably compromise a bit and run 2 nozzles at the top myself. Alternative is to run the tubing in the corners inside the tank too. Secure it with acrylic hangers and do a modified nozzle without the bulkhead.


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

> not quite. There is a bulkhead with 2 nuts on it. Both nuts are movable so potentially water could seep through along the thread. The Value nozzles have only 1 nut, so you could place an o-ring or a gasket and make a 100% water tight seal.


Hmm, I'm surprised you can get 100% water tight with the value, but not the higher end nozzles? 




> Extra clutter, take away from natural looking viv IMO.


No that is a very good reason. You may have changed my mind to put the pipes on the outside, even if they are on the top.



> It's pretty big and heavy. Guesstimating, about 7-8" I think about 3-4 lbs.


I was thinking of doing an entire back chamber to hide all equipment and do an "All-in-One" like in my reef tank... but I dont know if I am going to be able to do that if the pump is that large. How wide is it?

Ideally I would have a 3 mini chambers in the back chamber.

Chamber 1: Fog machine if I can find one to fit
Chamber 2: Water resosivor
Chamber 3: Pump for mist king

This would be ideal and I will try to make the back chamber fit everything, but if I cant I will probably drill the bottom of the tank then to hid all plumbing and do a sump style setup with the mist king and fogger.



> OK, I see what you're doing now. If you're going to use great stuff foam, I guess you could run and hide the tubing inside the tank, and just stick the nozzles out. Though it may be a lot more extra work and if anything happens, maintenance will pretty much be impossible. I'd probably compromise a bit and run 2 nozzles at the top myself. Alternative is to run the tubing in the corners inside the tank too. Secure it with acrylic hangers and do a modified nozzle without the bulkhead.


I havent been sold on the idea of great stuff yet, I'd really like to use real rock to make a water fall and cork bark for the back wall... but I'm still tossing and turning on the direction I want it to go.

i like the idea of the foam being ulta light weight, and have seen some great things done with styrofoam and motor mix... in this thread here...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/22002-60-gallon-construction.html

But I dont think I have the artistic touch to create new rocks and sculpt them like that.

And then "I" know they are fake rocks, which coming from a reef tank where everything is natrual... its hard for me to use fake stuff when I am trying to create as real and natural of an enviroment as possible.

Any ideas?


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

psychedelicwonders said:


> water tight with the value, but not the higher end nozzles?


Nothing to do with the price. Just a different design of the bulkhead.

btw, that's a kick ass viv with the rocks!


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## psychedelicwonders (Oct 15, 2008)

Hmm. I guess there are a couple or reasons to consider the value pack you offer. 

Not really sure which way I will go. At this point, money wouldnt be an issue since the upgraded nozzles are only a few dollars more... but if they dont 100% seal like the value ones do, I'm not sure I would go with the higher priced nozzles unless there is some dramatic benefit.

Yes it is really a sharp rock display... a lot of work and time.

How does using real rocks turn out?

has anyone seen any really impressive waterfall/rock formations with real rock?

What about some crazy porous rock like lace rock?


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## jasonrsus (Sep 17, 2008)

I have a similar setup that I'm quite please with. The tank is 36" x 18" x 18" (abt 50 gal) Exo-Terra. I have the Mist King setup with two misters mounted in each of the back corners. My nozzles are their "Deluxe" version that offer more positioning options. I have a timer that mists between 30-60 seconds twice a day (longer mist in the morning and a shorter duration in the afternoon - more for cooling the tank a bit). The lighting is CF's instead of 
T5's. The unit is by Current ('Satellite Dual' is the model - also intended for reef tanks). There are two sets of bulbs with 4 ranges of light. The daylight bulb is 6,700K/10,000K and the Actinic is 420nm/460nm, The unit also has one white lunar light for nighttime viewing. I use the Actinics for Dawn/Dusk effects. They come on 15-30 minutes prior to the daylight lights and go off 15-30 minutes after the daylight lights. The daylight cycle is 12 hrs.

Overall, I'm very pleased with this setup. The temp and humidty stay very comfortable for the inhabitants. Hope my 2 cents helps.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

well all i use on my tanks are just T5s and they work great!! the plant growth is unreal! and i just a mistking too.


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## gold3nku5h (Jul 24, 2008)

If you've ever grown plants indoors, and had to switch between a grow, and bloom bulb, you will notice, the grow is blue, and the bloom is red.* The reason, and science behind this is that, the red is to help induce flowering, and is more used by plants while producing flowers. If you use a blue, or red at night, it will mess with the plants, but they can get used to it, so its more personal preferance, so its just about the intensity of light now. If you were to use any color at night, be it any type of light, i would go with a flat white, because it will give you a full color spectrum, making it pleasing to your eyes, but will also cause the plants to photosynthesis.. This could be a problem for your bonsai, as if it is deciduous, or coniferous you would want to at least change your lighting schedule to give it a fall and winter, as to not exhaust it to death.* A tropical bonsai would be fine, as they dont see much change in the summer and winter weather.* The factor mostly seen by plants to cause dormancy is daylight, or rather dark hours.* It needs to follow the natural change in lighting schedule to induce dormancy, and produce a good bonsai, or tree in the terrarium.* Im planning on doing just about the same thing you are, with a few mini orchids, and a tree or 2 or 4.* Im planning on usuing something that can withstand sitting in water, such as a bald cypress, willow, or water ash.* there are others however that you can use, do some research.* Sunleaves has a great setup for a HO T5 lighting fixture, i work at a hydro store, and was amazed to see this finally come up, as i've used regular T12's for a long time, and dreamed of the compact size they now make.* If you need any other help, or have any other questions, PM them to me, and i'll help you out, as i said, im doing the same thing with the setup, a waterscape, and fall.*


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## Reefguy (Oct 24, 2008)

tkromer said:


> That setup looks great except as the others have mentioned the bulbs are the wrong color. You want 5500-7000K (preferably right about 6700K) lights. All the fancy colored bulbs in a viv will just give different hues to your viv (which is fine) but they won't help your plants grow. The reef setups have "bluer" lights because that is what sunlight appears as underwater and is designed to help corals grow.
> 
> Can't help you a whole lot with misting, I use spray bottles...


For the record, Actinic lighting in a reef tank is purely aesthetic. It does nothing but give the water a blue hue. It does not help coral growth whatsoever.


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

I have a mistking with 3 nozzles on my 44 gallon. 2 of the regular and 1 deluxe value nozzle. I agree that you should have them pointing backwards from the front top as you don't want all that water sprayed on the viewing panes in the front. 

To take up less space with mine I just used a 1/2 gallon milk jug as my resivour and simply slid the feed tube through the top hole. Simple and I have extra ones waiting to just simply replace the empty one with. I couldn't be happier with it though as when I leave for a vacation or the weekend it's one less thing for the person who is taking care of the frogs to look after...Or if I have anyone take care of them at all if it's just a weekend.


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## ofblong (Sep 11, 2008)

Reefguy said:


> For the record, Actinic lighting in a reef tank is purely aesthetic. It does nothing but give the water a blue hue. It does not help coral growth whatsoever.




wrong it does help coral growth. so does LED moonlighting. Its been proven to do so over and over. For plants in the vivarium I doubt it will help but I know very little about vivariums.

The T5 lighting in the first post is standard output t5 so it wont be near as bright as t5 ho lighting.


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