# Frog deaths - help please.



## Spuddy (Jun 26, 2017)

Hi so I'll try and keep this as short and succinct as possible...

I had two Leucomelas, roughly around 6 months out of the water in age, believed to be male and female. Had them kept in a temporary smaller tank for a few months and everything was fine. Up until a few weeks ago, when the male seemed to actively spit out any fruit fly he attempted to eat - but he would readily eat springtails and small woodlice if he found them, i tried to dig them out and offer where I could. 

Anyways, they moved into their new permanent enclosure about 5 days ago, along with a new addition - another believe male leucomelas that had been in a friends collection for some months - it was around the same age as my two. 

Anyways, upon moving all frogs into the new home at once, I noticed my male fussy eater was quite lethargic and I feared the worst. Sure enough he had hardly moved the next morning when I got up and checked on them. Today I returned home to find him dead and I was gutted. 

So I removed him from the tank, the other two frogs seemed to be absolutely fine - not a care in the world. Noticed them both moving around and eating. I went out for the day and returned home tonight to find the new male dead!! Oddly enough both males were on their backs when I found them, is this unusual for them to die this way??? Seems odd they would be essentially upside down.

I've quickly removed the female from the enclosure and back in to the old temporary viv, fearing that there may be something wrong with the tank. It has been up and running with no frogs in for around a month now. 

I've started removing all soil and stripping it all from the roots of plants and even throwing some away. I plan to finish stripping it tomorrow and buy all fresh soil etc. Plants were purchased from a garden centre and/or reptile expo. I presumed any harmful stuff on the garden centre plants would have been removed over the month or so of been planted, I had owned them longer in a potted state on my windowsill. 

Any ideas on what may have caused this? Obviously the first male had an underlying condition which removed his ability to eat fruit flies and subsequently lead to his death (presumably). However the second male is a complete mystery and with it happening within 24 hours I am scared for the health of my last remaining frog now. 

All help and suggestions are kindly appreciated. 

To note: yes flies were supplemented with vitamin A, D3 and calcium regularly. Tank was not too hot, or dry etc. 


Thanks.


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## mark c (Jun 17, 2010)

Pictures would help.

You bought soil from a garden store? What kind of soil? Some of those have toxic chemicals that the plants just love.


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## Spuddy (Jun 26, 2017)

mark c said:


> Pictures would help.
> 
> You bought soil from a garden store? What kind of soil? Some of those have toxic chemicals that the plants just love.



Pictures of the frogs? 


Some soil was purchased from the garden centre as the tank was second hand, I bought it from the same friend I got the other frog from. His previous inhabitants, were all fine in the tank. 

I removed some of it, as it didn't seem particularly great quality and replaced it with ABG replica.

I noticed that some of the perlite in the plants I bought (I removed most of it) had worked its way to the top of the soil, although I believed this to be non-toxic anyways?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Without a necropsy, any speculations as to the cause would be just that. I would say that losing two in such rapid succession would suggest something environmental such as toxins, temperatures or even asphyxiation. How were you measuring and monitoring temps/humidity? Is the enclosure sealed or vented? Why did you move a frog that was having difficulty eating to a permanent enclosure instead of evaluating the condition first? Did you quarantine the new leuc at all before introducing it?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Spuddy said:


> Pictures of the frogs?
> 
> 
> Some soil was purchased from the garden centre as the tank was second hand, I bought it from the same friend I got the other frog from. His previous inhabitants, were all fine in the tank.
> ...


Sorry, just read this. Disregard my questions regarding quarantine/isolation, as the tank had previously been inhabited, and could have already been infected with various pathogens before your frogs were introduced.


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## Spuddy (Jun 26, 2017)

Dane said:


> Without a necropsy, any speculations as to the cause would be just that. I would say that losing two in such rapid succession would suggest something environmental such as toxins, temperatures or even asphyxiation. How were you measuring and monitoring temps/humidity? Is the enclosure sealed or vented? Why did you move a frog that was having difficulty eating to a permanent enclosure instead of evaluating the condition first? Did you quarantine the new leuc at all before introducing it?


The first one I lost was already declining unfortunately - the reason for moving him to the new enclosure was the overwhelming amount of springtails present in the tank. A food source he was still readily accepting, I believed this would be his best chance as it was abundant in his preferred food compared to his current enclosure that was devoid of them. I had to physically spoon them into his tank in front of him. 

The new leuc was quarantined at a friends house yes for several months. 

Enclosure is vented, a glass top covers about 80% of the Exo lid with the rest being a fibre glass mesh lid. 

Room is thermostatically controlled to 20C. Humidity was not monitored quantitatively, and was based on a daily misting routine. Tank was never allowed to dry out or anywhere near it - plants and soil were always wet. Drier areas of the tank were made available also where it was not sprayed with water.


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