# Any advice.



## aquariumart (Oct 26, 2005)

This is my first post, so be patient. Six months ago I got 6 blue auratus. All were fine for four months. I have four tanks, 2 large exo-terras, a 46 gallon, and a 10 gallon. They were eating and slothing. One died, I contact Dr. Frye, do all the right stuff. Today my last one died. Fecals are good. Autopsy not possible as I live in the boonies. He seemed bloated to me. I really want to do frogs but am slightly discouraged at being a killer. I maintain fish aquariums for a living and grew up in a small pet shop, so no contamination. I do the food supplements, yes the right ones. And did the quarentine thing after the first death. Any advice? Is it possible that the breeder I bought from has done to much inbreeding? Thanks, Debbie


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Debbie,

A few thoughts. Could you post again describing exactly how all six were housed initially i.e. viv size, temps, etc. (couldn't really tell from your previous post). Also...I didn't fully understand what "They were eating and slothing" means...the eating part is clear but slothing....were they acting sluggish? You mention bloating in the last frog...was that consistent with the earlier ones?

Any pictures you might have of the frogs when they were either healthy, during decline etc. might prove useful.

Finally (and you may have already done this), I would recommend that you contact the breeder to let them know what happened and see if they have any ideas. 

Sorry for your loss...btw you aren't a 'killer'...I doubt if there is a member of this board who has not lost frogs. It sounds like you did all the right things but for some reason the little guys didn't make it. 

Bill


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## aquariumart (Oct 26, 2005)

Hi Bill, For the first month I put them seperately in sterlite sweater boxes with damp paper towels. They all ate well and gained weight. So after a month I put the smallest one in the 10 gallon, two in the 46 gallon (flat-back hexagon, 36" long), two in one exo-terra vivarium, and one in the other exo-terra. Both the exo-terra are the extra large size. I do hydroponics and used new clay(?) balls with cocohusk and a layer of peat moss. I also installed a powerhead for drainage in each unit. Two of the tanks have a waterfall feature. The temperature range was 68-75 degrees F. Yes there was a bottom heater, exo-terra rainforest brand. The humidity is a stable 82%. The plants were washed, root and all. 
I raise two types of fruitflies. The hydei and malogastor. I also put sme baby feeder guppies into the shallow water dish, they disappeared and I found no bodies. I use vitamins three times a week. The frogs never showed any signs of vitamin deficiency. As the frogs grew they slothed, shed, and it was clear to white. As normal they ate their skin.
The death behavior was that they qiut eating, would sit in the water dish all the time. Acted sluggish. I thought about chytrid, the symptoms were right except the shedding. From what I have researched the frogs shedded skin will be a yellow to red color. It is cold here, I live in the high mountain desert. There are no local veternarians versed in frogs and none of the vets in town had ever seen an arrow frog. Dr. Frye had me treat for parisites just in case and treat them with flagyl. Flagyl helps stimulate the appetite and is a powerful broadspetrum antibiotic. But it didn't help. 
I have a disabled son who watched the frogs all of the time. He did catch one bulling another and we seperated. The one being bullied just died today and the incident was in the beginning of Jan. I removed the bully and put it in the newly sterilized empty exo-terra. 
About the pics, I just never got around to it. Funny I actually have a film darkroom and a nice digital darkroom. To busy watching frogs. 
Thanks, Debbie


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Debbie,

Your post helps quite a bit. I understand what you meant by slothed (sloughed) now...so thank you. I was racking my brain trying to figure that one out...

Since you had the frogs spread out, bullying followed by failure to eat is probably not your issue, particularly since you separated the one duo that was fighting.

The ceasation of eating and sitting in the water for long periods is usually associated with bacterial or viral infection. The frogs are trying to flush their system. 

The only other thing I can think of is that you mention using peat moss in your viv....if you used peat moss that contained fertilizer or other additives that might be a problem.

Bill


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Substrate acidity has not been shown to be an issue with dendrobatid frogs unlike salamanders and newts. 

When you say the right supplements, it would help if you told us what they were and what was the expiration date on the supplements. There are multiple different vitamin deficiencies and they do not all present the same way as what is percieved to be the most common. 

If you still have the last body and it is fresh then you can refrigerate it and contact these people for a necropsy http://www.zoopath.com/

Ed


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