# SLS Identification (Not my frogs)



## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Ok, so I came across these pics today while on Facebook today.
These are two Patricia tincs that look like they have SLS to me....I tried to question the person who bred them to help troubleshoot as I thought it might be the angle of the picture and they are very new to breeding PDFs but instead got my comments deleted and a notification on FB that I had threatened someone.

Just curious for some input from others.


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## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

yeah def dont look to healthy. Looks like SLS to me


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The pictures aren't ideal, but it could be spindly leg.. since the legs do look out of proportion. Different angles are needed for a definite diagosis. If they don't want help, (which is what I would take from the response) why bother coming here and asking? All your going to do is fire up someone who is going to rant about it on FB... 

Ed


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

True. 
I usually don't get into these matters but I thought maybe I could help as when they added me on FB I knew they were very new to PDFs. I admit posting here was a little of a kneejerk reaction but I was disturbed that they reported me as I was not being hostile or confrontational about it.



Ed said:


> The pictures aren't ideal, but it could be spindly leg.. since the legs do look out of proportion. Different angles are needed for a definite diagosis. If they don't want help, (which is what I would take from the response) why bother coming here and asking? All your going to do is fire up someone who is going to rant about it on FB...
> 
> Ed


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Maybe the person was aiming to still sell this poor example and considered you a threat toward that success. Were you trying to be helpful? Sure, no doubt. Would I have done the same on FB? Absolutely. We should look to help other hobbiests when we see something may be wrong with a frog, viv, etc. It is a shame people would rather silence opposition, rather than take the advice, and, assuredly, NOT sell that froglet. Good for you for trying to do the right thing.

Is this FB member a member here? The reason I asked, is I would watch out for them selling froglets here, and avoid someone getting a terrible deal on a dying froglet... Thanks for the info!

JBear


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Thats what I figured. (selling the frog)
They are a pretty large company with close to 5,000 FB friends and specialize in ball python morphs, Bearded Dragon morphs and most recently they now claim to specialize in dart frogs. (tincs only)

They sent me a message that was really nice not too long ago thanking me for help but they still don't seem convinced there is anything wrong with the frog but they admitted it looks somewhat different than other frogs from the same breeding.

They also claimed that they didn't delete my comments on the pics or report me. They said it must have been someone else on their friends list. That doesn't sound like something someone can do to anothers profile but whatever. 

They are not a member of DB to my knowledge.



jbherpin said:


> Maybe the person was aiming to still sell this poor example and considered you a threat toward that success. Were you trying to be helpful? Sure, no doubt. Would I have done the same on FB? Absolutely. We should look to help other hobbiests when we see something may be wrong with a frog, viv, etc. It is a shame people would rather silence opposition, rather than take the advice, and, assuredly, NOT sell that froglet. Good for you for trying to do the right thing.
> 
> Is this FB member a member here? The reason I asked, is I would watch out for them selling froglets here, and avoid someone getting a terrible deal on a dying froglet... Thanks for the info!
> 
> JBear


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

come on folks, that frog has an obvious issue with its front limbs. even the bones in the digits look horribly deformed. if i got a froglet that looked like that, it would be promptly euthanized. 

i think its fair that you said something about SLS, which is the obvious symptom the froglet is showing. i cant believe its actually holding itself up!

james


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

James,

If you look at the first picture, there appears to also be cranial malformation which has been reported in a few places in the literature early in the documentation of SLS, but if there is malformation we have to consider other potential issues (such as MBD or hypervitaminosis of A). That is why I suggested better pictures are required and that it may not actually be SLS. I was not indicating that there is nothing wrong with the frog. Paul had that correct but the question was whether it was SLS or not. 

The curling of the toes could be due to the frog simply having those digits bent under. The toes in dendrobatids are flexible.... 

Ed


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Ed said:


> James,
> 
> If you look at the first picture, there appears to also be cranial malformation which has been reported in a few places in the literature early in the documentation of SLS, but if there is malformation we have to consider other potential issues (such as MBD or hypervitaminosis of A). That is why I suggested better pictures are required and that it may not actually be SLS. I was not indicating that there is nothing wrong with the frog. Paul had that correct but the question was whether it was SLS or not.
> 
> ...


I thought the head looked wrong as well(in the first pic-profile). The only times I had the displeasure of seeing SLS in person, the frog had no means of supporting itself in an upright position. The frog would lay on it's chin/stomach, and is limited to jerky bursts of sloppy dragged hops. It really is no fun to watch a tad you have grown to love morph out and there is nothing you can do to help it other than euthanize it. It sucks. Ed, you may be right that it is not SLS, but I still think Paul did the right thing to point out that the frog was not looking to be in good health.

JBear


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

jbherpin said:


> . It sucks. Ed, you may be right that it is not SLS, but I still think Paul did the right thing to point out that the frog was not looking to be in good health.
> 
> JBear


In no way did/do I think Paul did the wrong thing by pointing it out. What I think may be a problem was making the post here since it often results in "a dog pile on the rabbit" scenario with the negative responses on Facebook or elsewhere so negative that they never get the education that is needed to resolve the problem.... That can drive/prevent newer frog people from the forums... 

Ed


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Ed said:


> In no way did/do I think Paul did the wrong thing by pointing it out. What I think may be a problem was making the post here since it often results in "a dog pile on the rabbit" scenario with the negative responses on Facebook or elsewhere so negative that they never get the education that is needed to resolve the problem.... That can drive/prevent newer frog people from the forums...
> 
> Ed


I totally know what you were getting at Ed and I was hesitant to post it at first but was angered at the time.

Also, SLS was the first thing that popped in my head and didn't think of other issues that might be going on right away.
Truthfully, I had bad group of froglets (4) come from the first breeding from one of my azureus pairs years ago. Half of the frogs had SLS and the other half looked just like the frogs pictured above with the cranial deformation. All frogs perished in the first week after morphing.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

They finally admitted that something is wrong with the frog. They said it appeared weaker than the other froglets. They also said this was the first PDF breeding for them ever.

All and all...I guess whatever. 
I just don't think I would be proudly displaying the pics and giving people info of when the frogs will be available for sale. (Especially seeing that all the general herp people don't know there is anything wrong with frog pictured.)


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