# hornworms



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

How new is this feeder insect? I've looked online, and have found little information about breeding them. They are probably too big for dart frogs, but larger tree frogs might like them.

My main fear is the little stinger thing on their tail, but i haven't found reports that it poses a danger to larger herps like bearded dragons or chameleons. 

What are the ingredients in hornworm chow? Tomato plants are poisonous.


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

This is what i have heard in the past...

The "horn" on the back of the worm is not sharp at all and is not venomous, poisonus, or dangerouse in any way, but rather a defense mechanism.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

that seems to be an oxymoron. If it's a defense mechanism, then why would it NOT be sharp or hard to digest?


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## kawickstrom (Oct 3, 2008)

I wanted to use these as a subtitute food source for my chameleon awhile back but never went through with it. Anywho I collected some information on then. Here is a website that has plenty of info on them and you can get them from them too...

Mulberry Farms - Reptile Food - Silkworm Supply
(just scroll down a little and you will see them)

And here is a recipe for the chow. I dont remember where I got it so dont ask but its the only recipe I could find...

A Homemade Recipe for Hornworm Diet

We have developed a diet composed of ingredients that are readily available in a large supermarket. Diet preparation requires only a kitchen blender and a microwave oven. The finished diet, having the consistency of tofu, can be easily sliced into any shape or size and the quality of the diet can be modified by adding or subtracting various chemical components.

1 cup (100 g) of non-toasted wheat germ (Bobs Red Mill, Milwaukie, OR)
1/3 cup (25 g) of nonfat dry milk (Sanalac, Fullerton, CA)
4 tablespoons of agar (generic)
1 teaspoon pure raw linseed oil (nonboiled, Sunnyside Corp., Wheeling IL)
1/2 tablespoon nutritional flake yeast (generic)
1 vitamin C tablet (1000 mg) (generic)
2 vitamin B tablets (generic)
2 multivitamin tablets (generic)
1 tablespoon of table sugar (generic)
2 1/2 cups water

1. Place vitamin tablets in blender and reduce to a powder. To this powder, add the wheat germ, powdered milk, and sugar and blend until the dry components are well-mixed.
2. Remove the dry mix from the blender and add 2.5 cups of boiling water. While mixing at low speed, add the agar. Be careful to replace the lid on the blender before turning it on. Blend for one minute and then add the dry mix and continue to mix.
3. Add the linseed oil and increase blender speed. You may need to manually blend the diet while the blender is running. The diet gets rather viscous at this point.
4. After blending for about 5 minutes, add the nutritional yeast flakes and continue blending for another minute. Components in the yeast are heat labile, thus, yeast is added as late as possible.
5. Once the diet is thoroughly mixed, pour it into a plastic tray that has a sealable airtight lid. The diet will solidify and remain usable for about 7 to 10 days if kept refrigerated.

I hope this helps a little bit with your questions.


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

They are the same catipillar that you will find eating your tomatoe plants in your gardens. They grow to the about the size of an adult's finger. Obviously darts can't eat them, but they would be good for large lizards such as beardies, blue tongued skinks, and frilled dragons. Some turtles would love them too! I think the horn is more for camoflauge ( not sure of spelling) than defense. Helps to break up the outline of the catipillar.


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## jejton (Sep 3, 2006)

The horn is a defense mechanism because it fools predators into attacking it ( it looks like the head to them ) and if the caterpillar is lucky it will only lose its tail and not its head. The hornworms you buy are captive bred and fed on a commercial diet so they are non toxic. Wild hornworms feed on tomato and related plants and they utilize the plants' poison, incorporating it into their body as a defense mechanism, much like our PDF's do.


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## jejton (Sep 3, 2006)

jejton said:


> The horn is a defense mechanism because it fools predators into attacking it ( it looks like the head to them ) and if the caterpillar is lucky it will only lose its tail and not its head. The hornworms you buy are captive bred and fed on a commercial diet so they are non toxic. Wild hornworms feed on tomato and related plants and they utilize the plants' poison, incorporating it into their body as a defense mechanism, much like our PDF's do.


Oh and unless you breed them yourself you will have a hard time getting them small enough to feed to your frogs but they are great for larger herps. I feed them as supplements to my veiled chameleon, turtles, and bearded dragon.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Rain_Frog said:


> that seems to be an oxymoron. If it's a defense mechanism, then why would it NOT be sharp or hard to digest?


It's a visual defense. The horn itself is a soft, flabby hunk of caterpillar skin. 

They grow huge (4"+), fast (it takes a week and a half or so for them to grow to full size, from .5" or so), and bite (ow!). But chameleons love them, I don't know about treefrogs. You can find a guide to culturing them for multiple generations in the online chameleon newsletter (don't remember the name) from a few years back. The adults require food as well, unlike silkworms and some other popular food insects.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I bought a culture at the Westchester show recently (the fancy teal blue ones) as food for my Giant Day Gecko. He could eat them when they were small, but now the remainder have grown enormously (maybe bigger than he is!) I intend to let them metamorphose in my large vivarium (I did the same with a few Monarch caterpillars last year and the process was amazing). I don't have much hope of breeding the adult moths once the come out.

Take care, Richard in Staten Island.


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