# Imitator question



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

About a month ago, I recieved 5 imitators. As of now, they are all a little over 4 months of age. Initially, I kept them separately in heavily planted 1 gallon containers as the breeder suggested. 3 of the 5 are males - they called right off the bat when I took them out of the shipping box. The other 2 have not called and are a bit rounder, so I am hoping that they are both females.

I set up a 10 vert and introduced the fattest female, and the male that calls the most frequently. I was planning on putting the remaining 2 males and the other presumed female in a 20 sometime soon.

So far in the 10 vert, I have seen the male start to call briefly when he sees the presumed female. Sometimes when he calls, the presumed female turns to look at him, but doesn't really follow him or anything. The male also calls when not in sight of the female as well. I have not seen any fighting or anything so far.

What kinds of interactions should I be looking for in making sure that that I have in fact put a pair (rather than 2 males) together in the 10 vert? What kinds of breeding interactions should I be looking for?

Thanks!


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Aaron
Just wait. Time will tell for you. Sounds to me like you made the right call.
Put some of the film containers upside down, hanging on the walls, vertically....and some horizontal. 
Mist daily and consider sealing the tanks screen with press and seal wrap for a bit to get that humidity up high...that seems to get mine going.
The other 3 will fit fine in a 20H vert. I have had up to 6 imi in that size tank without issues.
Best of luck,

S


----------



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

It has been getting daily mistings. The viv is completely sealed - I actually made the conversion with glass, I don't like the way that some of those conversion kits look. Currently, I have 7 film containers (black and white) in the 10 vert. Some are at an angle with some water in them. Others are completely horrizontal.

Can anyone tell me what kinds of behavior I should watch for with the supposed female when the male is calling?

Shawn - Did you mean to put some upside down - with the opening under them? I haven't heard of that - how do they use those?


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

DaFrogMan said:


> It has been getting daily mistings. The viv is completely sealed - I actually made the conversion with glass, I don't like the way that some of those conversion kits look. Currently, I have 7 film containers (black and white) in the 10 vert. Some are at an angle with some water in them. Others are completely horrizontal.
> 
> Can anyone tell me what kinds of behavior I should watch for with the supposed female when the male is calling?
> 
> Shawn - Did you mean to put some upside down - with the opening under them? I haven't heard of that - how do they use those?


completely upside down. no water.

male:male combinations usually will lead to some visible wrestling.

The girl will slowly fill in as she develops eggs and matures. 

I dont usually see females directly interacting with the male during calling.

S


----------



## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

I don't see any interaction between my male and female either. In fact, I usually don't hear the male call that much any more. By now they probably have it down to hand signals!! LOL
I just know that come evening, if they are "in the mood" they will be in the horizontal film canister and there will be eggs by morning.
I wonder if having so many film canisters in such a small viv is rather confusing for them? I think you could cut that down to no more than three.


----------



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

dragonfrog said:


> I wonder if having so many film canisters in such a small viv is rather confusing for them? I think you could cut that down to no more than three.


I guess I could take a few out... I just wanted to make sure that they have plenty of choices for egg laying + deposition sites. So maybe just leave a horrizontal, a vertical, and an upside down one? What will they do if I miss a clutch - will they have enough places to put the tads?

How many film canisters do you feel like yours use consistantly?


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

they usually find a favorite one or 2

S


----------



## dragonfrog (Feb 16, 2006)

Ionly have 3 in my viv; all horizontal and white. They lay in all three of them at different times, one after the other. Unfortunately, they haven't figured out how to fertilize them yet.


----------



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

I took a few canisters out - I didn't want to take a bunch out at once, so I started taking 1 or 2 out per day.

Update:

Since last night, the male has been hanging out in a certain horizontal film canister. This evening when I looked in there they were both in there. I watched them briefly, then left them alone to do their business.

For the time that I watched them they were moving around and in very close contact. For a short period I saw the male kind of "pinning" the female (not really pinned, but he kind of had her in his arms) During this time, the female's legs were moving and twitching. They are still hanging out in there. The lights went out, so I turned the room lights on.

I guess we'll see if they leave anything there in the morning?...


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

"In arms" sounds more like fighting than mating.
A back rub from the female to the male is more what to look for (IME), that and doing the "twitchy robot dance".

Mine used to prefer to lay in vertical, inverted black film cans, I found that they didn't like to lay in cans with the clear part of a suction cup protruding in the can (to hold the cup to the can)...they much prefered the ones with black suction cups, or with the cups screwed to the can, so that no light is transmitted in through the cup.

After a while, they quit laying in the cans altogether, and instead took to laying on the overgrown spath in their tank, which made it hard for me to find eggs, so I let them transport the tads to 45 deg film cups with water in them...and that is going well...and interesting to watch (and listen to).

I'm guessing you have a month or two to go before seeing eggs, just from my experience and a couple of customer's reports.


----------



## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

FWIW, I've collected a few threads on intermedius over the past year or so, and I guess, as a subspecies of imitator, there may be some similarities...  

The first thread I started was asking the same questions as you are now, and I rec'd lots of helpful answers. Most of them stated that their inters didn't start breeding till they were around 11 months old, and, sure enough, that's when mine started, too.

I ended up with a 2.1 trio. The first male called at barely 4 months of age, but the second didn't start to call till he was 7 months old. I was pretty sure the 3rd one was female, but not 100% confident till I saw eggs! Meanwhile the males had been sparring regularly, but showing significantly different behavior towards the one that turned out to be a girl. Despite the male/male wrestling, however, it was not uncommon to find all frogs sharing a film canister at night, esp. right before breeding.

It is my impression that females take longer to reach sexual maturity than males. At least they are slower at showing definite signs, though there may be behavioral nuances we can use to make a guess with earlier. 

Anyway, here are some threads that deal with inter breeding timetables, male/male interaction, etc. Sorry they're not about "imi imi" proper!


intermedius breeding behavior
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... highlight=

dominant male question, D. intermedius
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16859

frog fight observations
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... highlight=

cautious woohoo
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... highlight=

intermedius tad being parent raised
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... highlight=

(Unfortunately I have since lost both males...)

And, btw, though they sometimes laid in film canisters, the successful clutches were all laid on the glass viv side. This could easily be one of the areas where "imi imis" and "imi inters" differ, though.


----------



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

Well... no eggs thismorning, but I wasn't really expecting them being their first time and all. I wouldn't really expect them to figure things out until a while after they start trying.

Diane - thanks for the links. From what I have heard, imis and intermedius have some courtship differences, but a lot of similarities.

I am fairly convinced that what I saw was some kind of courtship. When I said "pinned" it was kind of hard to explain - that's just the best word I could think of to describe the motion. Now that Brian mentioned "the twitchy robot dance," I would say that that might explain it better. He didn't really have her held down - it was more of a she's twitching and moving and he's got a leg on her type of thing. They hung out in the canister until past lights out - both in very close contact, but I didn't see anything that looked agressive.

Maybe someone could explain what the "twitchy robot dance" looks like, as these are my first thumbs (and I didn't grow up in the 80's :lol: )


----------

