# wierd growth from dead log



## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

Hi all,

It seems that I have a new mystery for someone to describe for the rest of us.

I have had these dead pieces of wood for several years, they were completely dried and appeared to have been sand blasted clean. I believe it is a "grape" wood but don't remember exactly. I have a picture of one piece that I just added to another tank for comparison and you can see how "clean" the surface is.

The growth is like a single "stick" growing from the log, not only from the top but the sides and turns up towards the lighting. They all have a white tip but no leaves. The oldest ones started growing about 8 months ago and have split branching but they do not have leaves either. 

They are bizare looking


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## Hercrabit (Oct 6, 2016)

That's some really weird creepy stuff! Maybe it is something like candle snuff fungus (Xylaria hypoxylon) or some other type of fungus.


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## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

Just incase your first question is what did I add to or put on the log...

The only thing that was added to the log was a piece of "terrarium moss" that you can see growing on the top.

I did not rub any soil or additive to the surface and this is the only tank with these logs that has had this type of growth appear on it.

Thanks for your thoughts and identification (if you have one). Of course if there are any warnings that comes with whatever it is, Please don't hold them back!

The frogs you see posing for a picture are Highland Auratus.

Thanks again,
Charlie


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Those are super cool  I was guessing fungus, too, but I have no idea, really.

Is that soil I see as a substrate?

Also, it looks really, really wet in there. What is your humidity and do you have any ventilation for the tank? Extremely wet conditions could explain the growth of those things, whatever they are 

Mark


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## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks Encyclia and Hercrabit,

I will take a look at the species you mention.

Encyclia, the substrate is a mixture of Spag. moss, garden wood strips (for absorbtion) and a light mix of planter soil covered again with a thick layer of Spag. moss and finally a cover of dried oak leaves. (A new leaf litter bottom needs to be added, thanks for pointing that out).

It looks wetter than it actually is and ventilation is provided by screening that covers approx. 80% of the top.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

CharValley said:


> Thanks Encyclia and Hercrabit,
> 
> I will take a look at the species you mention.
> 
> ...


Interesting mix on the substrate. Let us know how it works in the long run. I think lots of folks (including me) will be looking for ABG replacements/modifications as tree fern fiber gets harder and harder to source. 

Does the condensation stay all the time? Depending on the outside-the-tank conditions, you could still have a lot of humidity in there, even with 20% of the top being ventilated. The only reason I mention it is that I only get weird stuff like that happening in my tanks that are super wet and don't have much circulation. It's something to think about, anyway.

Mark


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

I have one of those things in my greenhouse tank. I stock terraria with plants from this tank regularly, and haven't seen it pop up. I don't think it's dangerous at all. 

Mark - my specimen is high up on the background (cork tile), right under my light. It's not particularly wet in that area, so the conditions for this fungus to survive must be fairly lenient as far as hydration goes. I do believe it appreciates ambient humidity, though; furthermore, I'm guessing that it requires a wood substrate. (As evidenced by the OP and myself growing it on soft wooden products). Also, I've never used organic substrates in my tanks. Pure Turface (All Sport Pro or MVP) beneath leaf litter is definitely the way to go. Especially if you top the Turface layer with calcium clay, which can't be used with ABG anyway.

OP - that substrate mix sounds a bit heavy on moisture absorption (at least the part beneath the leaves). I'm curious to know how it drains for you.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Jjl said:


> I have one of those things in my greenhouse tank. I stock terraria with plants from this tank regularly, and haven't seen it pop up. I don't think it's dangerous at all.
> 
> Mark - my specimen is high up on the background (cork tile), right under my light. It's not particularly wet in that area, so the conditions for this fungus to survive must be fairly lenient as far as hydration goes. I do believe it appreciates ambient humidity, though; furthermore, I'm guessing that it requires a wood substrate. (As evidenced by the OP and myself growing it on soft wooden products). Also, I've never used organic substrates in my tanks. Pure Turface (All Sport Pro or MVP) beneath leaf litter is definitely the way to go. Especially if you top the Turface layer with calcium clay, which can't be used with ABG anyway.
> 
> OP - that substrate mix sounds a bit heavy on moisture absorption (at least the part beneath the leaves). I'm curious to know how it drains for you.


That makes sense, Jeremiah. I hadn't thought of the fact that it was feeding off the wood (can be non-photosynthetic that way, too). I can see how it would be ok in less humid conditions. I still get the weirdest stuff in my wet tanks, though 

I completely agree about Turface (what is the difference between All Sport and MVP? - I use the former in all of my tanks, and mostly without the clay layer, too). There are some situations that I prefer to use an organic substrate for (plant grow-out tanks, for one) so I would still like to find out what a non-tree fern fiber alternative to traditional ABG is.

Good comments!

Mark


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## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

As for the combination substrate that I have been using there are a few pro's and con's of course.

I am running 18 tanks with a combination similar to that, I mixed a few of them up and added a cluster of the hardwood charcoal (sold for springtail cultures) into some of the tanks I set up for my "thumbs". Those I rinsed the charcoal very well and set them out to dry for a day before using them. Seems to be working as a great hiding place for the springtails to keep a small supply of "bugs" in the tanks for snacking on. My Drago's and varadero's seem to always have a heavy female and the males are always calling. My Green Gold dust and white banded are having much the same response to this as well, the white banded's just rarely come out to be seen and the G/G dust have already produced 2 healthy froglets and I'm waiting to see the 3rd walking around any time now.

Adding the chipped/splintered garden wood for the water absorption seems to be working well, because of the way it is layered in the substrate I can see if there is humidity coming from the layer, I use it as an indicator for how wet the substrate might be getting and back off misting amounts if I see them "sweating".

All my tanks are set up for plant growth which is why I added the soil but I did learn my lesson and I make sure it is not only covered but not to use much more than the ground cover plants can use it to spread.

I have some frogs that are going on their 4th year with me, banded leuc, auratus and 3rd year for my Tesoros Terribilis and P. vittatus.

So far it doesn't seem to be having any negative effects with any of the older frogs and the froglets don't seem to have issue either.

The problem that I really watch out for is as the sphagnum moss gets old and begins to break down it does start to look like "soil" but with debris "pieces". So using the dry leaf littler is important. Also, I keep at least one water pool in each tank. The frogs seem to use it a lot as a bath since I pull them and wash out the debris that they have washed off. One thing I found with the water pools that has an added benefit is that I can't just toss the debris into the toilet to flush because you never know when even an auratus will leave a tadpole swimming in the debris.

The tanks that are the most recent set up's were set up in January of this year so they are coming up on one year running time... so far so good.

Oh one other thing you do have to watch out for with this combination of substrate.... some of the ground cover will get so wild growing that it takes over and will cover up your bromeliads and the rest of the plants in the tank. I just had to pull one of the ground ferns from a 20gal. I didn't realize until I pulled and trimmed it I had almost enough to cover a 50gal tank!

But if you are wanting to be able to pull your bromeliads to empty the cups to collect tadpoles I would not recommend it unless you use potting cups for them. It is far too easy for a small frog to find the new depression, hide in it and get buried when you replace the bromeliad. So far I have been lucky with that and found the ones that tried hiding on me but it does happen  so keep an eye out.

I know there are a lot less "messy" substrate options but this one has been working out for me so far.

Charlie


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Encyclia said:


> I completely agree about Turface (what is the difference between All Sport and MVP? - I use the former in all of my tanks, and mostly without the clay layer, too).
> 
> Mark


I even use Turface for my growouts! To answer your question, All Sport Pro just has a finer texture. MVP lets water through more quickly.

The clay definitely isn't mandatory, but makes me feel a lot better.  Isopods and pink springtails love it (the latter especially, because they molt--a lot). I culture my pinks on it, and haven't fed them for a long time now--they just nibble off the clay and it makes them boom like I've never seen.


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

I could be wrong but that doesn't really look like a fungus. It looks more like that stump is sprouting roots.


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## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

jturner I thought about that too and at first I thought that the log might have started as a "cutting" and was beginning to grow.. there is only a couple problems with that idea.

First the logs were commercially bought several years ago, striped of bark and definitely dried out when I bought them. If it was something I collected from the backyard I would be more willing to go with the root idea but there is one other issue... The "roots" are turning upwards and towards the lighting system.

If you look you can see how they all bend towards one direction and that is toward the fluorescent light. Even the ones that are starting from the lower sides of the log turn upwards, if they were roots then they would turn away from the light and down towards the ground.

You can see from the last picture how the wood looked when I first put it in this tank. Clean and dried out.

The "sticks" that are growing off of the log also are straight and only the oldest ones show a branching, as if the white tip ended and the branching created new growth, but no fine feeder roots coming off any of them.

Good thought though, it was my first thought too.

Charlie


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

looks to me as though time has caught up with whatever was still "alive" in the log...that is the type of growth that one sees after pruning a tree...some are more prone than others...they throw out those perfectly good "branches"...like you see suckers at the bottom of i.e., crab trees...water has probably been sucked up the wood and eventually new growth was stimulated...pretty wild looking...just cut off the "suckers"...over and over....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It looks like one of the Xylaria ssp fungi. They grow on wood, tend to be dark in color with a whitish/white tip while actively growing. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I defer to the knowledgeable one....hahaha Gonna have to Google THAT one!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Ed...can you guess which one of the fungi it most probably is?? I was reaching for an answer and knew it was a long shot...and your answer is much more probable...damnit....hahaha


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Judy,
there are something like 100 species in that genus many of which can have more than one shape and can only be told apart based on the sexual spores (some have asexual spores that aren't of any use in identifying them). 

some comments 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I did Google that fungus and was amazed at how different they could look from one another...amazing...so is there a way to cut off those "branches" and put some sort of sealer on the original spot where they came out of the log...and for the ones that are too difficult to treat...cut off and seal ???


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

"The "roots" are turning upwards and towards the lighting system."

I am intrigued as to their apparent growth toward the light... phototaxis is not common in fungi esp not macroscopic ones. Is the area near the light also the place where ventilation occurs? Do you have a misthead in this tank? Or do you hand mist from one side?


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## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks Ed sounds like the probable id.

kimcmich, the top/lid is almost completely open and covered with a screen door screening (non-metallic).

I mist by hand and although I may occasionally spray through the screen, I mist by hand and usually lift the screening, short misting 10/20 (more like 5/10) seconds throughout the tank, enough to cover the entire tank and plants with a light mist. I don't mist every day.

I have plastic covers that I can use to cover more or less of the screen so that I can adjust both the ventilation but also the amount of humidity that remains in the tank.

I also shattered the "keystone" bone in my right foot so I have actually had to cut down the amount of specific time I spend on each tank. They are not neglected but they might go a couple days between misting.

The only thing that happens in that corner is, when I have dusted my f. flies I start sprinkling them out at the far end and the last of the flies get tapped out in that corner. So any residual Dendrocare dust that might not have stuck to the flies will come out in that area.

I usually mist an hour or so after feeding to not only make sure the frogs didn't get "dusted" but also to activate any left over flies, they start moving from the mist and the frogs get both a bath and dessert.

Thanks all, it is a weird little growth to look at.

Charlie


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

Do you mist from the side of the tank that might put the lean on the fungal growths? I'm wondering if the growth toward the light is just a coincidence - or actual growth toward the light itself...


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## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

kimcmich I mist from the top of the tank, I only mist from the front of the tank but the direction they are growing is not towards the front of the tank (towards the misting source direction). They are definitely growing towards the center of the tank and upwards towards the lighting.

Good question.

Charlie


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## frogtodd (Dec 25, 2014)

Ed said:


> It looks like one of the Xylaria ssp fungi. They grow on wood, tend to be dark in color with a whitish/white tip while actively growing.
> 
> some comments
> 
> Ed



I agree with Ed. The common name of Carbon Antlers is fitting for its looks.


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## CharValley (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks Frogtodd,

The common name of carbon antlers seems to fit the look really well too.


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## Calebrh (Jun 7, 2016)

That is some kind of xylaria fungus. It growing towards the light was perplexing me, but the more I looked at it, you don't have high light in the tank so it would need that small amount of photo exposure to grow. 

Cool thing, nick off a piece and see how it's tensile strength is. 

It'll keep growing until it's absorbed all the particular neutriants it is after in the wood. After that, it will most likely "bloom" spores which could hurt the frogs so I would keep an eye on it.


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

"It growing towards the light was perplexing me, but the more I looked at it, you don't have high light in the tank so it would need that small amount of photo exposure to grow."

Fungi - especially their fruiting bodies - are not generally phototactic, so I still am skeptical this is actually growing _toward_ the light. I'm wondering if the direction of the light is also the direction of heat and/or ventilation that fungus might actually be targeting...


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## frogtodd (Dec 25, 2014)

My guess is that they just grow up. Easier for the wind to spread their spores.


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## Deltagraphic (Sep 29, 2017)

Mycology is a particular area of interest for me and I have found that many species do in fact use light (amongst countless other things) to orient/regulate their fruit-bodies. While they arent growing into the light the same way a plant might, they are likely using the light as one indicator for which way is up. The complexity of fungal behavior makes it difficult to say definitively which stimulus is causing which response but I can verify that in my experience light is a factor. Additionally, anyone interested in a good intro to mycology should feel free to pm me for some book reccomendations.


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## Ravage (Feb 5, 2016)

Deltagraphic said:


> Mycology is a particular area of interest for me and I have found that many species do in fact use light (amongst countless other things) to orient/regulate their fruit-bodies. While they arent growing into the light the same way a plant might, they are likely using the light as one indicator for which way is up. The complexity of fungal behavior makes it difficult to say definitively which stimulus is causing which response but I can verify that in my experience light is a factor. Additionally, anyone interested in a good intro to mycology should feel free to pm me for some book recommendations.


I concur. It seems that photo-response of fungal fruiting bodies is not that widely studied, but those species that have been studied often show a response. Especially ascomycetes that form perthecia; Xylaria being among those.
*In English:* These fruiting bodies are composed of tightly woven mycelia with a pore, or pores, that allow the spores to exit. This is very different than a basidiomycete, the familiar mushroom: with gills that release spores.
In our lab we often see the primordia (pre-mushrooms) in jars move towards the light as they develop. But this is just a casual observation without any hard data to back it up. And we really try and discourage fruiting in our cultures; we produce spawn for experiments in the wild, mushrooms are a by-product from our standpoint. Which is why even mycologists look at us like we're crazy. (we're not really)
I can't believe I missed this before now, but those images are really cool. I wouldn't worry about spores being harmful to the frogs, but your wood might eventually become compost. Chalk it up to yet another sweet joy of the vivarium experience. You have a real ecosystem in a box.


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