# Established ant colony



## Bananaslug (Feb 18, 2010)

I introduced a fairly large colony of some odiferous ants into my viv several months ago, and it has been sustaining itself well. Really seems to supliment the frogs diet pretty good. I'm just curious if anyone else has done this?


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I'd be careful not to handle the frogs. Scientists are still uncertain where poison frogs get their toxins, but they know it's from their diet. Those fed ffs and other common foods are not toxic, but ants are one of the insects suspected of contributing to the toxins accumulated by the frogs. Of course, it's the native tropical ants and other insects that carry the toxins, so your ants might be find, but I'd still be careful. If the ant smell, then they probably have formic acid or some other noxious chemical to defend themselves with.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Can you show a pic of these ants? Also where did you get them from and did you get a queen? Bill


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## Bananaslug (Feb 18, 2010)

Hadn't planned on handling the frogs, just curious if anyone else has had luck with it. It would be interesting to know what gives the ants their smell...


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

A friend of mine has experience with this although inadvertently. Sugar ants wandered into his tanks.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

but sadly the nest they made in the coffee pot was deserted when i finally got it open. just eggs left.

the frogs do love those ants.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Awww thats lame. You should take pics of your other colony.... That was insane!



frogparty said:


> but sadly the nest they made in the coffee pot was deserted when i finally got it open. just eggs left.
> 
> the frogs do love those ants.


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## Bananaslug (Feb 18, 2010)

Bill, I used a plastic coffee container and just placed damp cardboard inside along with some honey. I cut a small opening in the lid and places it on it's side near a large colony ouside. After a few weeks it was full of ants and thier eggs. Just shook all the cardboard out into the viv and so far, so good. This was back in may.


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## Bananaslug (Feb 18, 2010)

Bill, I used a plastic coffee container and just placed damp cardboard inside along with some honey. I cut a small opening in the lid and places it on it's side near a large colony ouside. After a few weeks it was full of ants and thier eggs. Just shook all the cardboard out into the viv and so far, so good. This was back in may.


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

Can you post pictures of them in your viv?


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Cool idea. Id like to see how well this sustains intself for the next year or so. What exactly do the ants eat? Hopefully no adverse effects on the plants arrise.



JimO said:


> I'd be careful not to handle the frogs. Scientists are still uncertain where poison frogs get their toxins, but they know it's from their diet. Those fed ffs and other common foods are not toxic, but ants are one of the insects suspected of contributing to the toxins accumulated by the frogs. Of course, it's the native tropical ants and other insects that carry the toxins, so your ants might be find, but I'd still be careful. If the ant smell, then they probably have formic acid or some other noxious chemical to defend themselves with.


Good point. However I though only a very few species of dart were actually deadly. Ive even seen multiple videos of a woman who even licks them to test their toxicity from the wild. The more sour the taste, the more potent the frog...Who knows if she is still around though lol


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

GRIMM said:


> Ive even seen multiple videos of a woman who even licks them to test their toxicity from the wild. The more sour the taste, the more potent the frog...Who knows if she is still around though lol


Seeing how dart frogs (not all dart frogs but some) are more poisonous than the most poisonous snakes and spiders (albeit they do not produce their own toxins) licking one is not a good idea...

I heard a story. And as we all know how story's go. Believe it if you want.

A small South American Indian boy was out with his tribe learning to hunt. Village elders, cousins, uncles, and his father all gathered in a what we would call a hunting party. They were planing on preparing some darts for hunting animals out of the tree's and such. In order to bring back meat to the tribe. So they gathered the materials they needed for the darts. Then they went to gather a local poison dart frog or two. In order to inoculate their projectiles. The young boy found a frog. He then took some of his darts to wipe on the back of the frog. What the boy did not know is that there was a small, small cut on his finger by his finger nail. and within minutes the young kid was on the ground going into convulsion's and what soon turned into seizure like twitching on the floor. 

And for the life of me I cannot remember the extent of damage to boy suffered. I know it was not death though. I believe the kid had severe damage to the his nervous system and the damage was permanent. and the muscular tissues around the area were also affected but i cannot remember how... I do remember this part of the story on the effects of the poisons the frog contained. The boy because a cripple, was never able to hunt again along the that suffered greatly with mobility issues in his body due to the nerve damage.





And just to think. that it only takes a few micro grams. to kill you. MICRO GRAMS!!! thats like 2 or 3 grains of table salt! (hurts my brain to think that that little is so toxic it can kill a full grown person.)


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

terribilis poison is lethal @ doses as low as 170ug

1ug = 1/ 1,000,000 of 1 gram. to put it into perspective, a nickel is 5 grams give or take. its smaller than a couple grains of salt just over the weight of 1 grain.

but i doubt that it should concern you. from my understanding the frogs get the compounds necessary to create the poisons from insects who ingested these substances from specific plants. i may be way off there, but thats how i remember the theory going.

id also like to hear how this works out.
james


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

james67 said:


> terribilis poison is lethal @ doses as low as 170ug
> 
> 1ug = 1/ 1,000,000 of 1 gram. to put it into perspective, a nickel is 5 grams give or take. its smaller than a couple grains of salt just over the weight of 1 grain.
> 
> ...


It's my understanding that the most toxic frogs are in the genus Phyllobates and that there are at least a half dozen neurotoxins in the various species of frogs.

Regarding the ants, I had heard that ants aren't very nutritious due to their hard exoskeleton, but the few times I've put small ants into the viv, my azureus really go after them.


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

james67 said:


> terribilis poison is lethal @ doses as low as 170ug
> 
> 1ug = 1/ 1,000,000 of 1 gram





That blows my mind how toxic these little suckers are in the wild !!!


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

I got the video confused with mantella darts, but I found the video I was referring to. Im sure its been posted before on these forums though.






Sorry to take the thread slightly off topic. Hopefully someone else has experience with ant colonies inside their vivs.


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## ryangreenway (Apr 30, 2010)

I want to see how well this works in a viv as well


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Any pictures of the colony available yet? Please post!


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