# 75 gal construction journal...Update! 8/04 frogs 'n' stuff



## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

OK. So after about 2 months of almost not working on my vivarium at all, it is finally to a point where i can put up a post. Basically this is a how-to for a larger viv setup idea, and just cool pictures. Hope you all enjoy :lol: .

So this is the starting of the process. I cleared off the workbench in the garage and setup shop...oh boy...









DO NOT FORGET TO USE GLOVES! Sometimes silicone and insulation foam can cause irritation, gloves are ALWAYS a good idea.









The first thing I did was install the river. I do everything the most simple way possible. I find that it creates less problems when I have to go back and fix something, and it allows for easy adjustments.









After the river was secure I started to add the foundation for the terrestrial side. As always I started from the bottom and worked up









Next the tower for the highest spot in the tank.









I then covered the acryllic water barrier with black silicone. I think I did two or three layers, you can't see through it now which was the goal. I also started covering each side with black silicone (thickly) so that you can't see the great stuff when it's sprayed on, and the bright yellow insulation foam doesn't detract from the enjoyment of the tank it's self.









After I finished siliconing, I installed the filter...









And the pump for the waterfall. (The pictures are a little bit out of chronological order)









Here you can see the uper "walkway" foundation of egg crate. This was tricky and had to be balanced very well. It was a reliefe when the foam went in and solidified for the extra strength .









Before the foaming can begin you must lay down the mesh that keeps the substrate from falling into the false bottom. I also used the mesh for supporting the foam.









Let the foaming begin! With the exception of the tower, I always started at the lowest point and let the foam dry, then added another layer. This provides a cool effect and requires less foam in the long run (no collapses...).









Here you can see the starting of the right hand side.

















And the left hand side...









A finished view of the left hand side of the tank.









And of the right hand side. Sometimes the foam doesn't do what you want it to do. Just let it dry and shape it with an exacto knife or hot wire cutter.









Arial views of the left and right side.

















The first thing I siliconed was the waterfall resivour (spelling?). I didn't add any dirt or anything to it and I'm glad I didn't. It looks nice just being plain with the water coming out.









OK before you apply the dirt, you must let it sit in a hot dry area to dry out. Also, if you spread it out over a larger area it dries faster.









This is, bar far, the worst part of doing a viv. Spreading silicone over four feet of foam is not exactly fun.









Almost immediately after you apply the silicone you need to throw dirt on the area. Do it in small sections at a time.









And the dirt is finally finished...finally.









Now for the potting. I use this orchid bark because it has no additives, it's just plain old orchid bark. It also allows for easy drainage after a misting.









It's dry but it's potted, you can see the cord from the filter. I still don't really know what to do about it .









Here's the first picture of a sort of on the right track to be finished kind of sorta starting to look better vivarium! 









Now you can see the waterfall.









This is the lower right side after a few mistings and aquatic plants. Note the misting system at the top of the tank.









Left hand side, misting sysem on top again.









Lower right hand of the aquarium. You can see the new plants, this was before my misting system was installed too.









So this is basically what it looks like today. Misted and humid. I'm awaiting plants from Andy's Orchids and I'm gonna grab stuff at NWFF.









Any questions or comments, I'd love to hear feedback. The tank dimensions are 48x18x16 or something like it. Obviously it needs plants


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

It looks good so far. Do you have any other methods of escape from the water section if a frog ends up in there? I'm not sure I'd feel safe with just the 1 branch.

I look forward to seeing some plants in there.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Still working on that. I'm probably gonna add some sort of ramp all of the way around, there aren't going to be any frogs in there for a while. WTB Plants :-/


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Looks fantastic! Thanks for all the pics--they really help me follow the process. I'm certainly looking forward to your updates!


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## kj (Jan 15, 2006)

Looks rellay good mate well done 

do you know what frogs you might have in there


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Ditto... can't wait to see this move along. I'd recommend you silicone some really small bits of driftwood all the way around the waterline, and then attach java moss to that. Would give a more natural transition area, and frogs could easily climb out once there was some texture.

Though I've seen plenty of frogs climb out of the water straight up the front glass... so I wouldn't be too worried. In fact, I suspect that one piece of wood in the water would almost never be used by the frogs to get out... they will swim to waters edge almost immediately if they don't want to be in there.


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## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

Fantastic! I am soo impressed I'm gonna move this to parts and costruction as a sticky!


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Wow thanks guys. I can't wait to plant it (NWFF IS SO FAR AWAY!). I was thinking of putting some Regina or Giant Orange Tincs in or maybe some Pumilio. I havn't really decided yet. I really like the java moss idea, and was thinking of something similar. The problem with siliconing something now is the humidity in the tank is very high and would make it almost impossible for the glue to dry. The log isn't really there for them to get out on, it's just decoration. I intend on putting more logs and stuff in there when I find pieces I like.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2006)

Thats really fantastic! I really like how you piled the great stuff up rather than laying that big huge tank on its back. 
You water fall looks great, but I wouldn't do it exactly like that cuase I hate splash. Thats just me.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> The problem with siliconing something now is the humidity in the tank is very high and would make it almost impossible for the glue to dry.


As long as the surfaces you're trying to silicone are dry, the humidity is not a factor. Silicone will cure underwater without any problems because it's not a process that removes moisture, but a chemical reaction. This is why I say "cure" as opposed to "dry" as they imply different processes.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Wow thanks for that information. I still need new, dry orchid bark, and I know exactly what I'm going to do with it...Ya'll be pleased I think . The only time I flipped the tank on it's back was to apply the dirt on the silicone. I didn't want it to all fall into the resivour (yay spelling).


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## rjmarchisi (Feb 16, 2004)

*Don't shoot the messenger*










Hate to burst your bubble but there is BioSeal in the tube of silicon. If anyone knows whether or not this product is bad for frogs I'm still waiting to hear.

Rob


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

I've used this same silicone in my tanks for the past couple years. I've never had any problems with it, my leucs were very content and my pumilio were breeding like crazy. I think that if the frogs somehow ate the silicone that'd be bad, but it doesn't seem to affect them.

Edit: I wouldn't ever put new silicone or re-silicone anything in a tank with animals in it. That would definately cause a problem. After it's dry I doubt there's an issue.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: Don't shoot the messenger*



rjmarchisi said:


> Hate to burst your bubble but there is BioSeal in the tube of silicon. If anyone knows whether or not this product is bad for frogs I'm still waiting to hear.
> 
> Rob


good eyes Rob 

there have been a few recent threads discussing this. we did some preliminary testing (im no scientist but it was fun) and think there is no threat. after reading a few threads and peoples experiences (especially if Everett had pums breeding) i dont think there is any threat with using it. there was even a comment in one of the threads where when someone called GE they were told there was nothing added to it, it was just a marketing ploy so they could compete with the others that do have some type of mildew protection.

here is a thread that may be of interest Rob. there is a post about 4 down that has some other fairly recent threads linked. you should check out what some people say 
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ht=bioseal

this has always been a funny topic to me though. 
there is black 100% silicone, there is white 100% silicone, there is clear 100% silicone.....the list of colors goes on....
all these colors are available with (and in the past without) mildew inhibitors, but are still *100%* silicone. how do they add pigments and mildew inhibitors without making them less than 100% silicone. how are some 100% silicones better for doors and some better for bathtubs. arent they all 100% silicone? 

sorry for the off topic post in your thread Everett.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2006)

*Re: Don't shoot the messenger*



2mnytnx said:


> this has always been a funny topic to me though.
> there is black 100% silicone, there is white 100% silicone, there is clear 100% silicone.....the list of colors goes on....
> all these colors are available with (and in the past without) mildew inhibitors, but are still *100%* silicone. how do they add pigments and mildew inhibitors without making them less than 100% silicone. how are some 100% silicones better for doors and some better for bathtubs. arent they all 100% silicone?
> 
> sorry for the off topic post in your thread Everett.



Thats too funny! But so true. I never understood it either. As far as the mildew inhibitors go, I always thought it was 99.9999999999% Silicone and 0.00000000001% Mildew Inhibitor, (Ok maybe I exagerated there, but you get the idea).


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

100% Silicone refers to the base of the caulk as there are latex, acrylic, and different mixtures of them out there. It's just saying that the foundation of the caulk is.

As said above, the topic of bioseal has been discussed at length and there hasn't been anything conclusive in either direction regarding its relative safeness as compaired to other silicones. My solution is to not use Silicone II at all and use Silicone I if I use any silicone at all.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

That's interesting Defaced. Many people in the WADS group here in Washington have been sticking with anything Silicone II. Again, I don't think it really matters that much as long as there aren't any glaring chemical issues that are on the bottle. What I believe causes a problem with the glue chemicals is them not being fully dry, or not being fully water tight when dry. Anything water tight is not going to leave a residue because it's fully sealed. Therefor, a frog could not absorb anything off of the glue, and the glue couldn't take anything from the frog (or water etc). Again I've used it and never had any problems, but there is minimal direct contact with the frogs and the silicone.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

You'll find that Silicone II is used more than Silicone I because of availability - you can't easily find black Silicone I - I had to order black Silicone I online. When I got into the hobby ('01), Silicone I was the standard. I also prefer working with it more, but that's beside the point.


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## rjmarchisi (Feb 16, 2004)

2mnytnx, I have read every thread on dendroboard, dartden ( don't know if I allowed to say that site here  ), plus a gecko board as well as a reef board and still haven't found conclusive proof on the safety or lack of safety of Bioseal. Someone on a reef board mentioned using it and had corals and fish start to deteriorate in condition, but knowing how sensitive salt water inhabitants are, it could have been any number of other causes.

Personally I made 4 tanks with Bioseal as well and didnt realize it, now I am contemplating whether to strip them down entirely ( they are all drilled with 1" drains, .5" misting nozzles, full backgrounds, and euro style vents ) or put some frogs in and see what happens.

Still scratchin my head about it........

rob


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

I would never put anything but aquarium sealent in a salt water tank. The biological composition of the water in one of those tanks could have been deteriorating the glue and released chemicals that caused the problems.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2006)

Rob, 

reef deterioration can be atested to many things. as far as using your tanks, thats similar to what happened to me. a friend of mine and i were building a couple tanks at the same time. when we went and bought home depot out of bronze GE II we thought we bought all bioseal free tubes. come to find out we were buying out the last of it without the BS, and a few tubes with. 

he ended up with a tube in a tank he set up for intermedious and put them in there before he realized what we did. once he discovered the problem and i verified i had used some too, we contemplated for a while. after some amount of time with his intermedious in with the BS we decided it prolly wasnt anything too serious  i made a couple of GE II globs, let them cure and placed them in various FW fish habitats. there has been no noticable damage, and because of the issues Everett states we decided there couldnt be too much risk.


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## rjmarchisi (Feb 16, 2004)

Wow, thanks, that is great to hear, guess its up to us now to long term test this product with the offspring produced and long term health.

Thank,

Rob


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2006)

:shock: amazing viv!

Their are pleanty of difrent kinds of lilly's im sure youre frog would be able to climb on and get out of the water if needed. Im sure a dwarf lilly, would do great in their. I love youre Viv set up, it looks amazing.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

That's an interesting idea. I've added a rock wall (basically just flat slate) in front of the silicone-covered glass barrier. Where would I go to get a few small lillys?


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

OK Finally uploaded my pictures!










Full tank shot.









Left side.









Right side.









Cishweinfia sheehanae (pusilla)









This little guy seems to like being tucked up under the leaves.









Bulbophyllum laxiflorum (Java)









I really like how these guys are all over the tank.









I got two of these plants from Black Jungle. Both have flowers and I have close-ups on them further down the page.









Pleurothallis ornata (schiedei)









Close-up on the flowering orchid I got from Justin Schroeder (I probably spelt his name wrong :? )









Orchid frollicking 









Rock climbing









Close-up on the rock wall thing that I put in to cover the glass barrier.









Another orchid flower close-up.

















This is the plant and accompany-ing flower.









And this is the flower that goes to the lower plant. The color variation on these plants is excellent. I know I'm not spelling this right but the plants are Escapallia or something like that.

And finally my favorite shot. I just took this today and I think it's probably the best shot I've gotten of a frog .


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## garysumpter (May 26, 2006)

Excellent work, great stuff!

Do you plant Broms directly into the great stuff? Ive never really understood that!

Cheers

Gary


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Must have missed your last update, Everett. Thanks for all the pics. Things are looking great and I think the slate work is very effective. Seeing the frogs in situ really helps one appreciate the size of this tank; they look very happy!


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Thanks for the comments . And yes I do plant the broms directly into the background. However, this only works effectively with stoloniferous(sp?) broms, otherwise you should attach them a different way using a basket or wire. The tank has grown in a lot :shock: I should put new photos up soon. Probably in another month, I want a few more of the flowers to come through.


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## Skibadee (Mar 22, 2007)

update


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

I posted pictures in the member's viv's section, but I'll update here tomorrow.


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## brandongalea (Dec 10, 2007)

How do you manage o keep alive the plants? Do you use any UV


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## Obliv79 (Oct 31, 2007)

Excellent work my friend my questions are is that much water a threat to the frogs? How did you fruit fly proof the tank and what exactly did you use on that fluval to connect it to your waterfall. I must admit the frogs seem pretty content from your pictures. the reason I ask is because I'm also working on a tank of same dimension 4 foot standard 75 gallon.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Hey guys been a while since I was on the board. I actually just took this tank apart yesterday . However, I had almost no problems with it for the almost 2 years it was running. I had 2 high power fluorescent lights on top of the tank and had a misting system build into the top (sort of throw together, but effective coverage). When the frogs were little I worried about them drowning and was very paranoid for about two months, but they never had any problems at all. I lined the "shore" of the water area with slate rock that gave them a good surface to grip and pull themselves out of the water. All in all I loved this tank, but I'm leaving my house to go to the University soon and I didn't want to burden my parents with taking care of it. If you have any specific questions about setup or anything feel free to PM me or post here.


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