# Frog Bites = SLS ?



## froglet (May 18, 2005)

For the Past few months i have been feeding my tadpoles on a strict diet of Tadpole Bites. When i started i was told i could feed them exclusevly on the Bites and the tads would be fine. I have noticed a tremendous increase of SLS in my froglets and i can tell you that out of the last 14 frolgets i have morphed out 7 with SLS and 2 without front arms. I Also spoke to a few friends of mines who also tried the tadpole bites exclusevly and they both told me the same thing " Alot of our Tads are coming out with SLS " . I am not sure how much of a coincidence this could be but if anyone can shed some light on the subject or personal expirience it would be much apreciated.


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

We feed exclusively tadpole bites and have only had 2 out of 47 froglets have SLS. WE have a TON of tads in the water now and almost all of them are still on bites but we are putting oak leaves in with some to see if they morph out bigger. Maybe it depends on the type of frog it is. Ours are all cobalts and leucs. Good luck!


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

Ive never had an SLS problem and being that it all started with tad Bites makes me think that it might be related to the food......It could be just a freak of nature but i raise all my tads the same and havent changed anything.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I've morphed probably close to 100 froglets of various types on tadbites and only had 2 come out with SLS, but both of those two had a suspicious bubble on the side of their body early on in development so I think that had much more to do with it than tadbites. The only "high" instances of SLS have been with pumilio, so obviously tadbites aren't the issue there. Perhaps you got a bad batch or an expired one? Maybe try a new bottle.


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

K guess i better check my water then .....

thanks


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

yeah check your water


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

All because someone else does or does not have SLS issues using a husbandry method or diet does not mean that you will or won't get SLS using that method..... 

Ed


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I have used tadpole bites for over 2 years now with no SLS issues with it. From some past threads SLS is normally linked to parent nutrition.

I guess my point is the data you provided does prove a link between the SLS and tadpole bites.

What type of tadpoles?
What is the water quality and temperature?
Are you using plastic tadpole containers?
What are the parents supplemented with?
Are the parents new breeders?

Some off the top off my head, but when I had a SLS issue I had thought tadpole bites fixed it but after some conversations, which are still around, it may have been the water quality. I currently use remineralized RO for my tadpoles with great success. Now with that said I can still get SLS from new parents, but with my older breeders I never see it. My frogs are fed every other day and supplemented each time. I am currently switching up supplements.
Herptivite
Repcal mixed with naturose
dendrocare
then I repeat this...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

from my IAD presentation 

The following causes have been linked to the appearance of SLS in froglets
Nutrition (both of the tadpoles as well as the adults)
Environmental (housing and temperatures)
Genetics 

Examples of nutritional "cures": 
Iodine addition (potentially dangerous as iodine has a very narrow safe range). 
B vitamin complex (folic acid)
Vitamin E
Different fish food brands ( such as Aquarian®, Sera-Min®, Tetra-Min®)
Live foods such as blackworms 
Algae scraped from the sides of tanks
Foods marketed for amphibians (like Frogbites®) 
Multivitamins added to the water 
Providing non-breeding periods for the adults to sequester nutrients
Seaweed added to the tadpole diet.

Examples of environmental cures (some are anecdotal reports).
Exposure to UVB lighting
Addition of tannins via tadpole tea or a leaf (modifying the pH and/or hardness)
No longer using tadpole tea or leaves
Use of reverse-osmosis (RO) water (instead of aged or carbon filtered water)
Use of aged tap water (instead of RO or carbon filtered water)
Use of carbon filtered tap water (instead of RO or aged tap water)
Lowering the temperature at which the eggs/tadpoles are reared (species dependent)
Increasing the temperature at which the eggs/tadpoles are reared
Increasing the calcium hardness of the water
Treating the tadpoles for parasite infections
Rearing singly

Communal rearing 
Communal rearing with recirculated filtered water
Changing the water on the tadpoles daily
Changing the water less frequently 
Never changing the tadpole water, just replace evaporated water.
Changing from polycarbonate containers to containers made from glass or a different plastic
Also the above can be combined in many different ways


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Nice listing Ed, thanks. I missed the talk while I was vending and I'm sorry I did...

My recent observations.

Lots of SLS in past 2 months. This from long term proven parents as well.

Not sure why *but my guess is 2 things....I put new carbon in the filters 3 months ago, and temps have been higher in the tad water.*

Sure my vits might be older also, and ambient temps in vivs are warmer, and food sources change (new ff media for instance) ect, ect, ect.

But for me it isnt Tad bites, that I can say for sure.

So. Start over. Figure out variables, change what you can and use Ed's infor as a guide.

Best,

S


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

What I really love about Ed's list is it shows one of the biggest problems with SLS... there are plenty of conflicting "cures" in that list! It really depends on the situation... and "changes" that might have occurred might not be the obvious ones that we've done...

Greater SLS appearing in frogs that have produced SLS-free tadpoles in the past? Sure you changed to tadpole bites, but the fact that the parents have produced tadpoles before might point to parental nutrition too ("over breeding"). The timing could have just been coincidental. 

I also don't like the "exclusive" part of that deal... I always think of having more success with tads is in part allowing for a range of foods, and letting them eat when they want. Narrowing their foods to what we think is right isn't always a good idea... tadpole bites are good, better than other options, but the "perfect food"? Eh, not so much. Maybe adding back in some variety, both with the tads and parents, would be a good idea.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

There is an old "saying" in medicine...

goes something like....

The more available 'cures', the less secure the diagnosis.

and in this case SLS is just a symptom, not the disease. Potentially numerous variables interact to lead to this failure of normal development.

I certainly wish I had the 'magic bullet' but I dont.

S


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Shawn,

your point about it being a symptom is one of the first points I tend to bring up although I tend to call it a spectrum developmental disorder. 

With the carbon, you may want to check the phosphate levels in the water. Many activated carbons are washed with phosphoric acid to remove impurities and can then leach phosphates. This was a problem at a different institution that had a level of phosphate in the tap water supply. The increased level of phosphate from the carbon was sufficient to throw the Ca metabolism out of wack resulting in SLS. 

Ed


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

To recap the froglets which are all coming out with sls are from Panguan Lamasi which IMO now started to breed at a super fast rate....... Now they have slowed down so lets see what the next few clutches bring..


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

You may not see a change in the SLS rate for a couple of months if they have begun to slow down as the female will have to take up, possible synthesize and store the various nutrients (for example vitamin A) before you could see a difference. If she is still producing eggs then it will take longer for her to reach minimal levels to avoid SLS. 

Ed


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