# Tank size



## camalathao (Apr 28, 2013)

Hi everyone I'm new here and to frogs, I have a quick question would a 18x18x18 be too small to permanently house some poison arrow frogs? If not what types can I keep in there, thanks in advance and sorry if this has been ask before.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

18x18x18 is too small for mostly all beginner dart frogs. You could get away with 2-3 E.Anthonyi Santa Isabels in there if you utilize the vertical space as well. Make sure that you use wood, some leafy plants, and a tiered background to provide climbing and hiding places. If the tank is well planted you may even get away with a 4th SI. 

You could get away with 1-2 Leucomelas but not much more and again, plant the tank and utilize vertical space. Although terrestrial, they love to climb a bot also. 

Virtually anything else that fits the cube is a much more advanced dart frog.


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## camalathao (Apr 28, 2013)

What's a good size tank for a pair of Dendrobates tinctorius?


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Lets start with what type of frog you'd like to keep. once you decide on the frog, we can tailor the tank size and design to the frog. Check out the care sheet section on the forum. The frogs are classified by beginner intermediate advanced and expert. Anything beginner or intermediate is a great starting point if you do your research on the species. Those care sheets are a great place to start.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

What's wrong with a pair of Tincs in an 18" cube?


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

I kept a pair of Azureus successfully in a 15 gallon for years... That has a smaller footprint than an 18 cube (and much less total volume).

I think an 18 cube is a great starting point for a pair of tincs. I wouldn't keep any more than 2, but a pair would be fine. Would they enjoy more space? Probably... But I don't think it is anywhere close to a necessity

What tincs were you looking at?


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Some people keep pairs of tincs and similar species in 10g (Which is a bit small), and an 18"x18"x18" cube is equal to around 25g. You could easily house a pair of D. tinctorius on of those, with little to no problems.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

The 18 inches just seems small to me for larger frogs.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

18 inch is large enough for frogs, go safe. A large viv makes it difficult to monitor the frogs, especially for beginners. It 's my opinion, of course.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

GP dynamite said:


> The 18 inches just seems small to me for larger frogs.


They'll do just fine. Seems like nowadays everyone has this "bigger is better" perception, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it also isn't required.

You had mentioned to check out the care sheets... Did you notice the recommended enclosures for the frogs that have been mentioned in this thread? 

Tincs: "Being larger frogs, Azureus and Tinctorius require a good amount of floor space. Pairs of frogs should not be kept in tanks smaller than 10g, with larger tanks preferable (20, 20L)"

Leucs: "Horizontal or vertical enclosures both work well, as they do like to climb and the males often call from the top of the tank. 20H and 29H are good tanks to use for a small group of frogs."

Anthonyi: "Groups, preferably male heavy (3.2 to 4.1) in a 20/25H"

By those accounts... The anthonyi could have a nice group of 4-5, the leucs could probably go with 3-4 and be fine and the tincs should have no problem as a pair.


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## camalathao (Apr 28, 2013)

I was think a pair of powder blues haha im not really sure yet, thanks everyone for the quick overnight replies. I'll check out the care sheets thanks


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I don't have tinct, but only thumbnails and pumilios. But a terrarium cube of 18 inches is fine for a pair of powder blue, go safe. Greetings


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Touché. I keep a trio of leucs in a 20 high. And they seem to have just enough room. My perception with the dimensions of the 20H being 24l x 12 w was a pair of larger frogs may be crowded in an 18 x 18. Since we're talking a pair and the trade is 6 inches from one direction to another, I stand corrected


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm no expert but my current frogs are tinctorius. They are oyapock (smaller than powder blues). In a tank that size, you could easily pull off a pair of tinctorius IF the tank is set up well. I am not sure how well you have done your research so if you already know this please forgive me: tinctorius females are extremely territorial and WILL kill each other. For this reason, it is important to buy a sexed pair of one male and one female. Do not take the short cut and pay the little extra money for a nice healthy sexed pair. My observations with tinctorius is that they WILL climb if given the opportunity but vertical height is not a necessity. Just when you set up your tank. Do not construct a bulky background or a thick substrate layer. You will want to maximize usable space by providing a second usable ledge like an "upstairs". You will need lots of plants and hiding spots to make them feel secure. Again, I have little experience but that that is my two cents.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

An 18×18 footprint has about the same floor space as a standard 29 gallon aquarium. With the shorter backwall and increased depth, you actually lose less space from your back ground (should you use one).


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

I kept my first frog in an 18x18x18 cube, and shes still in one today. You will be golden as long as you know what frog you are buying, and you set up the tank for that specific frogs needs.


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## Gocubs (Apr 23, 2012)

All of my tincs are in 10gallon tanks. They are all sseveral years old and breed. I know several people in the hobby that keep tomcats in a 10 gallon with great success.


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## Joeman (Oct 10, 2011)

I use a 24 x 18 x 24 which I know is a little higher up, but I love it for adding bromeliads that are tall to coax some good egg laying spots. I only have a pair in it but if you do feel cramped on space you could try and have a slightly elevated bottom to increase the actual ground space. I would like everyone else only recommend a pair but part of the comfort of your frogs really relies on your ingenuity to create a unique setup to keep your frogs comfortable. There is no better place than these forums to also get ideas.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

volcano23000 said:


> I'm no expert but my current frogs are tinctorius. They are oyapock (smaller than powder blues). In a tank that size, you could easily pull off a pair of tinctorius IF the tank is set up well. I am not sure how well you have done your research so if you already know this please forgive me: *tinctorius females are extremely territorial and WILL kill each other.* For this reason, it is important to buy a sexed pair of one male and one female. Do not take the short cut and pay the little extra money for a nice healthy sexed pair. My observations with tinctorius is that they WILL climb if given the opportunity but vertical height is not a necessity. Just when you set up your tank. Do not construct a bulky background or a thick substrate layer. You will want to maximize usable space by providing a second usable ledge like an "upstairs". You will need lots of plants and hiding spots to make them feel secure. Again, I have little experience but that that is my two cents.


I'm not picking on you, but has ANYONE out there ever witnessed this? I've read it over and over and over again. A myth perhaps? It happened to ONE person?

I have female Tincs together and they do fight on occasion, but I've never been concerned about them killing one another. My males fight on occasion too. 

My female Leucs fight WAY more then my Tincs.


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## Gocubs (Apr 23, 2012)

Keep yhem in sexed pairs. Problem solved.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Gocubs said:


> Keep yhem in sexed pairs. Problem solved.


But, is there really a problem in the first place? I don't have a problem keeping them in groups. 

A group of Tincs is far more interesting to watch then a pair. Same would go for any frogs.


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## camalathao (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies I have learned quite a bit


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

frogfreak said:


> I'm not picking on you, but has ANYONE out there ever witnessed this? I've read it over and over and over again. A myth perhaps? It happened to ONE person?
> 
> I have female Tincs together and they do fight on occasion, but I've never been concerned about them killing one another. My males fight on occasion too.
> 
> My female Leucs fight WAY more then my Tincs.


I'll admit this has never happened to anyone I know, but why on _God's Earth_ would you risk it?!?

PS- If your leucs are fighting, maybe you could separate those too.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

volcano23000 said:


> I'll admit this has never happened to anyone I know, but why on _God's Earth_ would you risk it?!?


Because I don't believe it to be true and I have groups that work fine. I see no risk at all to the frogs.



volcano23000 said:


> PS- If your leucs are fighting, maybe you could separate those too.


The females only fight at breeding time and it's usually brief. No harm no foul. It is interesting to watch too.

All these so called "group frogs" will fight. I just don't get why Tincs get labelled as frogs that will fight to the death...
.


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

frogfreak said:


> Because I don't believe it to be true and I have groups that work fine. I see no risk at all to the frogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see your point, but as neither I nor the OP have enough experience to experiment yet, we should stick to common practice and be more cautious than those that know more about these animals.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

volcano23000 said:


> I see your point, but as neither I nor the OP have enough experience to experiment yet, we should stick to common practice and be more cautious than those that know more about these animals.


Fair enough. This was probably not the right thread to be posting this. It was off topic.  

I see you have 2.1 Oyapoks. Are you keeping them in a group or splitting them? Nice frogs!!


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