# Substrate Ideas?



## upstatenypets (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm basically looking for step by step ideas on how to create a substrate. I've never made one before, I have no frogs yet, and I only have a 10gal aquarium. I want to make the substrate and get the rest of the tank set up first then think about buying a PDF. I've looked through many of the listings and I just can't find any good instruction ideas for creating a substrate. 

I would like to know how to construct a false bottom, what products are best used for drainage/how to drain the tank, what makes the best layers of substrates, how to do a nice running water river or waterfall, etc, etc. I'm VERY new to this. I can do the rest of the tank, but I have NO clue on how to do the bottom. As most beginners I want to start out with the very beautiful D. Azureus or maybe D Auratus, but it may not be limited to them. Depends on my mood when I buy I guess!

So if you could help me out in anyway, please do! I appreciate it.


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

False bottoms are one good way of lifting your substrate so it doesn't sit in water. The easiest is gravel or LECA. LECA is a lightweight expanded ceramic that looks like Coco Puffs and is easiest to get through a hydroponics store. The alternative is the egg crate, which is what a light diffuser for fluorescent light panels is called. Over one of those two, use a screen or weed block gardening fabric to keep you substrate from falling through.

The simplest is to by a bag of ABG (Atlanta Botanical Gardens mix) from a sponsor. The next simplest substrate is to buy a bag or "orchid bark," or orchid bark mix, preferably labeled organic. You have the option of adding some stuff to it. Adding about 1:3 coconut fiber or peat moss, especially around plants that like it damp is good. And you can top dress it with sphagnum moss.

The options and variations are endless.


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## upstatenypets (Feb 28, 2008)

If I use gravel instead of the LECA, is it safe to use the bags they sell at pet stores for the bottom of fish tanks? Some have pretty colors or some look very natural and are made for wet environments. Would those be good to use? I guess it wouldn't be the greatest now that I think of it. It will probably make the tank weigh a lot extra. I would be able to find LECA in any gardening store I'm guessing right? Not too familiar with the term "hydroponics" 

So to start the substrate, the best is to use the gravel or LECA, then lay a separator, then lay out ABG, separate that and finally use the orchid bark? Do all of these have to be separated or just a separation between the gravel and the rest of the stuff? Then of course I would add the moss and stuff for the plants. Is this a good substrate? Ugh, I'm just trying to get this all figured out before I get my frogs. It's late and I'm getting confused! 

Please any more advice on the Substrate would be appreciated!


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## chibisan (Apr 4, 2008)

Okay, well what I did withboth my home tank (20gal vert) and the one I made at work (30gal) I used a false bottom made from eggcrate. I thought about just doing gravel, but really, it would be way too heavy if I ever had to move, and I wanted a small pond in the corner. And besides, one sheet of eggcrate cost me $9 at Menard's and I just bought 17cent pvc pipe parts to hold up the eggcrate. And then I used the extra eggcrate to spray my great stuff foam on so if I ever want to, the background is easily removed.

So then on top of the eggcrate, I put a layer of landscapers cloth to prevent the substrate from falling through, then a small layer of aquarium gravel to hold it in place, then the substrate which I just did a mix of coco bedding, sphagnum moss, and dead leaves. With live sphagnum moss as the top layer on half and magnolia leaves on the other half.


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## jdart16 (Jun 5, 2008)

The only seperation needed in your tank is between your drainage layer(leca,gravel, or false bottom) and your substrate. In the past I have used a mix of coco fibre, reptile bark, peat brick, and sphagnum moss. Your substrate can be as simple or complex as you want it but if this is your fisrt viv keep it to a simple mix or purchase a premade one. Overall if you choose hardy viv-safe plants your substrate won't be that important as long as it's not overly saturated or dry.  

Justin


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## cindre2000 (Dec 17, 2007)

I used eggcrate on all my first tanks and leca on my last two. Leca does take less time and forethought to put in, but it is more weight and I feel it is also more of a pain to deal with. I then placed some plastic screening over the drainage layer and placed a couple of rocks/wood in the front to hide the false bottom.

In my vivs with water features, the eggcrate/leca was stopped about 5-6" from the front and the wood/rocks placed in front. Allowing for a front water feature. With my rack set up, the eggcrate was slanted from front to back with a couple of inches left in the front to create a very shallow pool. Rocks or wood are used as an embankment to hold in the dirt. I just used a piece of ziptied eggcrate in the back for the height.










I work at a petstore so I get a bit of a discount, thus I normally make my substrate with the products we have there. I really like the Peat and Sphagnum mix by zilla. I then mix in Eco-Earth to get more volume for cheap and then add in Zoomed's fir bark to better drainage. I have also been tossing in clay litter from by rabbits litter pan which seems to work well. I then might toss in some pulverized leaf litter, medium grade coco soft, or some extra sphagnum I have laying around. But I don't use ratios, I just work it until I get a nice airy mixture.

I then soak the dirt until it is evenly moist, and then I put it in the tank. Plant the tank, put in a layer of leaves. And then I soak the whole set up until I get a thin layer in the front of the "non-water feature tanks". I have recently started using a tiny bit of root fertilizer and let the tank mature for a month or two.


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## nawth21 (Apr 17, 2008)

upstatenypets said:


> If I use gravel instead of the LECA, is it safe to use the bags they sell at pet stores for the bottom of fish tanks? Some have pretty colors or some look very natural and are made for wet environments. Would those be good to use? I guess it wouldn't be the greatest now that I think of it. It will probably make the tank weigh a lot extra. I would be able to find LECA in any gardening store I'm guessing right? Not too familiar with the term "hydroponics"
> 
> So to start the substrate, the best is to use the gravel or LECA, then lay a separator, then lay out ABG, separate that and finally use the orchid bark? Do all of these have to be separated or just a separation between the gravel and the rest of the stuff? Then of course I would add the moss and stuff for the plants. Is this a good substrate? Ugh, I'm just trying to get this all figured out before I get my frogs. It's late and I'm getting confused!
> 
> Please any more advice on the Substrate would be appreciated!


You wont find LECA at gardening stores, it's a specialty item. You can order it online though if there are no hydroponic places in your area, but I bet you could find some locally. I am lazy, I bought my ABG substrate mix from Josh's Frogs (a sponser here). All you do is soak it, and throw it in the tank. easy as pie.


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## upstatenypets (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I'm understanding it more now. Getting some ideas going now. Hope it turns out great. Can't wait to get the li'l buggers!  (not sure of what frogs yet)


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## chibisan (Apr 4, 2008)

Here's my thread so far showing what I was talking about with the eggcrate
parts-construction/topic40570.html


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## upstatenypets (Feb 28, 2008)

Okay, so after thinking about it for a while I think I've come up with a plan for my substrate. Comments and suggestions welcomed. 


Lay down a 2inch or so layer of Clay pellets
Lay a divider down (possibly landscaper's cloth as suggested)
Lay a bit of gravel to hold the divider in place then add Reptile Bark, or Coco Bedding
Add some Sphagnum Moss and some Peat Moss, plants, possible water feature

For the background I plan on building a faux rock wall with some logs(branches) to allow more climbing to the plants and stuff. Maybe figure out a way to add a water fall off the background that falls into a running stream of water. HMMMMM 8) 

So, let me know if this sounds good. Thanks!


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

Scratch the water feature in a 10 gallon, they take up way too much valuable floor space.


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## nawth21 (Apr 17, 2008)

You only need one divider between the drainage layer and the substrate. And be sure to mix in all the ingredients that go into your substrate mix first. You dont want "layers" of different substrate materials. It will get bogged down and water soaked. You want good drainage, hence the orchid bark/coco husks/ ect that go into it. Keeps it light and airy, but they need to be mixed in with the "dirt-like" components of the substrate mix.

yeah and nix the water feature.


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## Matt (May 16, 2008)

About the divider layer...

I've heard some people use Weed-X or some other landscaping cloth as their divider. The advantage being, no earth will slip through to the water layer.

Other people however, advocate using needlepoint mesh #7, or screen door material. The advantage being that roots can grow through it into the water, which works well for certain water loving plants, and then becomes helpful for filtration purposes to keep the water fresher.

I'm hoping to get the mesh style working. However, I'm concerned that the fountain pump I have will clog, since some earth will fall through. Should I worry about this? Should I encase it in filtering material?


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

I made a new batch of substrate this afternoon and I thought I would share some pics. I figured this thread was better then starting a new one - if the mods feel different, feel free to move/delete/PM as necessary. 

On to the dirt! 

4 parts Black Earth
1.5 parts sterilized landscaping sand
2 parts moss (I used half long fibre spaghnum and half Zilla Forest Moss)
1 part coco fibre
1 part orchid bark

It seems to hold together really nicely - forms some tasty aggregates. What do the soil experts think?

Pics:


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

afterdark, whats in the black earth?


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

basshummper said:


> afterdark, whats in the black earth?


I'll take a look when I get home from to confirm - but I do know it's organic and fertilizer free. I would guess it's something like compost, manure, worm castings or something similar.


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## Boyd75 (Dec 26, 2012)

will eco earth shagnum moss and leaves work?
what about the plants, what kind of soil for them to thrive. 
bromeliads, orchids, vines


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## j0onahra3 (Sep 15, 2012)

I know this is a dumb question, but why can't regular gravel be used as the drainage layer instead of those expanded clay pebbles? Just wondering, as I am also a newbie wanting to learn


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