# what morph?



## FrogNick

what morph do you think this is?










Will let you know what it was sold to me as and what I think it is after a few responses.

Thanks


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## Julio

hard to tell without any locality data, it can be La fume, Matecho or even a regina


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## guppygal

looks like a male Matecho ~


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## wesleybrouwer

I think this one is a nikita


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## Taron

i am with julio on this one it better be one of those three

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Darts15

I'm going to go with a Matecho.....but I guess it could even be a Giant Orange? I don't see any of the blue patterns that they have though....


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## Justin Bailey

Looks male mateko to me.


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## Frogman8

I'm going with a metecho , looks exactly like mine ( bj's) line


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## Frogman8

Sorry for the spelling ,I phones suck ( matecho)


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## wesleybrouwer

Never seen matecho with the black dot on the back, though,
i don't know if we use the same name giving for the different morphs either.


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## hypostatic

This looks like the 'Yellowback / Saül' morph on tropical experience


Dendrobates tinctorius morphguide

EDIT:

OK I take it back  . Someone said Nikita and I second that motion. Yes, that is my final answer.


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## JL-Exotics

looks like a typical matecho to me.


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## GregF

So what was it sold to you as???


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## billschwinn

Sure looks like a nice Yellowback.


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## Baltimore Bryan

I don't think it's a Nikita, since those have very little/ no yellow on the legs. I'm guessing either a matecho or giant orange/regina, but you can't reliably be absolutely sure just from a visual guess.
Bryan


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## Julio

that is def not a nikita nor a citronella


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## FrogNick

ok was sold to me as a le fumme but it wasn't the orginal breeder who i bought it off. i sure its a male matcheo (has called) i have got a la fumme and it's alot more orange. see pic below. Also you can get matcheos with a spot even if both the parents dont have them bit like cints...


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## Julio

do you suplement your frogs with any color enhancer? your matecho seems a little orange as well and not yellow


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## DendroRachel

FrogNick said:


> i have got a la fumme and it's alot more orange. see pic below. A


Julio - I think FrogNick's pic is of another frog which is a la fumme for sure - showing how it is a lot more orange than it is yellow. I think he's using its orange color to support his questioning of the first frog being a la fumme also (since its yellow, not orange like the second shown frog which is a for sure la fumme)

(sorry so wordy / awkwardly explained)


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## RedEyeTroyFrog

This seems really tough, at first glance i thought Matecho, Matecho, Matecho, Then I read all the posts to see what other said, and saw what it was sold to you as, I saw Yellowback and i almost agreed that it could be yellowback, but ive never seen a yellowback with that much yellow on the legs, but still doesn't mean that its not. As for the La Fume, i don't know much about this morph at all but what from what I saw from a quick bit of research I didn't see any with as much yellow as the one u originally posted. Again that doesn't mean that its not a La fume, My yellowback parents look like Saul, and they throw some that look like saul and some that are a "High Yellow". I think you need to find the original breeder of this frog, go see the parents and get to the bottom of it, because right now Im saying it could be Matecho, Yellowback, Regina, La Fume. I wouldnt go off as much of a color thing Orange/Yellow , because some give there tads lots of color enhancers some dont, With my personal experience with that is with citronella, if I dont give them any enhancers as tads, they morph out a very pale yellow, as opposed to when i do feed enhancers they come out Bright Lemon Yellow

Here is a very similar La Fume:
http://www.wildsky.sakura.ne.jp/frogs/dtinclafume05.jpg

Regina
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a153/sports_doc/IMG_6927-1.jpg

Yellow Back
http://www.sndartfrogs.com/img/tinc/t-yellbk4085.jpg

Matecho
Matecho that look like La Fume
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pendensproditor/5434015988/
and ones that dont
http://media.photobucket.com/image/dendrobates tinctorius matecho/twinspot/IMG_5900.jpg


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## FrogNick

camera doesn’t show the colour very well, the male matecho is yellow and the le fumme is also allot more orange more so than the pic... also notice that the black running down the side of the frog reaches the eye the matecho’s only goes about half way and Regina which I also have nearly reaches the eye with about a 3mm gap of colour between the eye and side stripe.


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## Ed

FrogNick said:


> camera doesn’t show the colour very well, the male matecho is yellow and the le fumme is also allot more orange more so than the pic... also notice that the black running down the side of the frog reaches the eye the matecho’s only goes about half way and Regina which I also have nearly reaches the eye with about a 3mm gap of colour between the eye and side stripe.


your making the identification based on things that can be manipulated through diet (pigmentation of yellows/oranges) or are potentially variable in the population (3 mm color gap). Neither of those are what can be considered to be definitive within a variable population as you are also comparing it to a small population of frog. If you looked at 1000 Regina do you think that each and every frog would have an exact 3 mm gap or do you think you would see variations of that gap? 

In the end, either you trust the breeder or you don't trust the breeder. If you don't trust the breeder's identification then you have to talk to them a refund as you are obviously dissatisfied. 

One of the problems with the hobby is the attempt to identify frogs using characteristics that can vary significantly due to differences in husbandry and phenotype. 

Ed


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## RedEyeTroyFrog

Well Done as always Ed


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## Ed

Slightly tangential to the topic, there has been comments about color enhancers in the thread. The carotenoids added to the diets are not color enhancers as they are metabolically used as nutrients.. 

In the way that the phrase has been used in the thread, technically beta carotene which is the primary source of vitamin A in many supplements would be a color enhancer as it can increase yellow and orange pigments but has been shown elsewhere to supply some (but usually not enough) vitamin A to the frogs. Other carotenoids that are also sequestered for pigmentation also supply provitamin A activity as well or act as immune function support so to characterize them as color enhancers is incorrect as color enhancement typically refers to increasing pigmentation above and beyond what would be found in the wild populations. 

Ed


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## RedEyeTroyFrog

I don't have nearly as much Knowledge as you Ed, I actually don't use straight color enhancers for my tads, I use Josh's tadpole tea which has "color enhancers" in it, and I was just simply saying that I notice a difference in the color of froglets when they morph out with I use it or don't use it. Everything you said did make sense though thanks.


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## FrogNick

I can only go from what I’ve seen from other breeder and shows in UK and Europe with the colour and side stripe its not 100% accurate but it's the best i can go on. of course there's variation but there is some consistency in CB bloodlines, currently got some F1 green sips and they look like pale green Oyapock just like there WC parents.

If the spot wasn't there most of you would say matecho and I know for a fact that you can get spots and no spots from matechos.


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## JL-Exotics

FrogNick said:


> If the spot wasn't there most of you would say matecho and I know for a fact that you can get spots and no spots from matechos.


I agree, spots are commonly seen in matecho. Offspring have shown to be quite variable from a single breeding pair. Some offspring are bright yellow, some deep orange, some with spots, some without, and even some that are nearly solid yellow. Really great frogs. We haven't worked with La Fumme, so I can't comment on them.

Yours is a very nice speciman either way.


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## dartsanddragons

Hello 
I would agree that it looks like a Matecho, Color is not the determining factor. I have two lines of Matecho one line is more yellow and the other more orange they are both from VERY good breeders and there is no doubt as to the Morph that being said never buy Frogs from a source/breeder that you are not 1000% sure of especially if you intend to breed and or sell them.






scott


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## Woodsman

The localities that these frogs are reportedly collected from are extremely close to each other (one Matecho collection site is 24km from the village of Saul where "Yellowbacks" are from). I would wager my house that the colormorphs that we identify as unique and disjunct populations and that have no interbreeding with each other, are ecotonal variants of the same population.

So perhaps our "idea" of what morphs come from such localities needs some revision.

Just a thought, Richard.


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