# Vivarium help!



## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

Hello!
So this is my first vivarium. I have done plenty of research but I'm worried it might be a bit wet for dart frogs. There are places they can get up out of the wet such as the wood in the middle but I'd like some more opinions.


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

Is it normal for the substrate to be quite wet for a couple of hours after misting?


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## highvoltagerob (Apr 14, 2012)

What are you using as a drainage layer? What are you using for substrate? How often and how long do you run your mister for? How much ventilation do you have on the top? With a little more information about your set up we can help you trouble shoot your problem


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks for the reply! My drainage layer is just a cavity. Between the water and my substrate there is about 3/4" of space then eggcrate and then a layer of mesh. My substrate is a 50/50 mix of coco fibre and sphagnum. I currently hand must the system about once a day.


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)




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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

just plain coco fiber in moss will not drain well. also some mesh does not drain very well. are you using weed block or a screen for the mesh.

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

It's like a fly screen sort of stuff. I'm trying to post a pic but it keeps saying an error occurred


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

you may want to check your plants and how they will respond to not only the misting, but having wet roots which may rot. A couple of the plants shown --specifically the broms--will not be real happy...please look at the labels if you still have them, and Google the care...


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## highvoltagerob (Apr 14, 2012)

Do you have any vents on your top? The amount of vents you have will also affect how fast your tank dries out. You need to find a balance between proper humidity levels and allowing your plants leaves to dry off as well as leaf litter drying. Some people use fans to do this.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Your mesh looks big so it should drain well but the only thing I would worry about is the growing media you chose. The frogs won't care but your plants sure will. Both the coco and sphagnum hold loads of water. If I were you I would add a coarse non water holding component such as coarse sand, small gravel or really anything to put some oxygen into the soil. There are some plants that will live for a short time in your soil but as it deteriorates it will compact badly and you will lose plants left and right. Moss would like it but you need medium-high light for most moss indoors. Depending on the plants you choose wet roots are not ad but they still need some drainage material and water movement over the roots to keep the roots from rotting. Another thing with plants the higher the light the more water they can convert and the less likely they will rot. Meaning low light lots of water = rot. High light and lots of water not nearly as likely to rot. I pick plants for my tank that can live and prefer saturated riparian habitats and near 100% humidity. I use plants from SE Asia such as Cryptocoryne, epiphytic hoya, moss, mini pilea (liverwort),Bucephelandra epiphytic ferns. I have a sump so my water is constantly moving past my plant roots bringing fresh oxygen saturated water to them. You could add a bubbler under your false bottom in the water it would add more humidity to your tank too.


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

Wow, ok thanks for all the info!

I'm not planning on having many vents in the top, just gaps for cables and my fogger as I think the humidity and temp will be easier to keep stable then. 

I think I will find something else to mix into the soil to reduce how much water it holds. Would aquarium sand do? I have some of that lying about that I could use?

Thanks Mark


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## MWAInverts (Oct 7, 2014)

To air out the substrate, you can use coarse charcoal since it's light and will allow microfauna to grow. It'll really open up that substrate and prevent water logging. Have you looked into the ABG mix at all? It's sort of the go to substrate for viv planting and allows for excellent drainage.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

--Mark-- said:


> Wow, ok thanks for all the info!
> 
> I'm not planning on having many vents in the top, just gaps for cables and my fogger as I think the humidity and temp will be easier to keep stable then.
> 
> ...


Hi Mark,
I would suggest using your sand as long as it's river sand or washed agronite sand beach sand to rid it of salts. I would go to Lowe's home Depot or similar and get some cheap fir bark mulch the small type and mix both the sand and the mulch with your coco and omit the long fiber moss since together that's a lot of water holding properties. If you have hard wood charcoal the kind made out of mesquite not the briquettes and break them up small and rinse but that is optional (good but not necessary) you can also add perlite or small lava rock to the soil or similar for drainage that won't degrade over time. Just try and make it light and airy but still hold moisture. Or even easier go get some organic black gold potting soil and add some sand to it. That would be easy and do great. Do whatever is cheap as I am not sure what you have on hand. I am a gardener so have lots of things on hand to make my own soil so I would go that route but black gold is an amazing brand too.


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

So these are my options that I have on hand. I also have a marine fish tank so I do have a lot of spare stuff lying about. I have some dead live rock that I could smash up and mix through, some activated carbon and some coarse sand. That's my finger for size reference (I have more of everything it's just more for particle size). What would you recommend adding? 1 of them? 2 of them? All 3?


Thanks Mark


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

--Mark-- said:


> So these are my options that I have on hand. I also have a marine fish tank so I do have a lot of spare stuff lying about. I have some dead live rock that I could smash up and mix through, some activated carbon and some coarse sand. That's my finger for size reference (I have more of everything it's just more for particle size). What would you recommend adding? 1 of them? 2 of them? All 3?
> 
> 
> Thanks Mark


I would skip anything from the marine tank unless you soak it for for a week after you break it up. Even dead live rock us expensive so I would suggest popping that on Craigslist If you don't want that and sell it. As for media you have on hand I would mix the charcoal and coarse sand with the coco 1.1.1 or a little more sand if you dont have enough activated charcoal. If you live somewhere with a yard that has sticky clay soil, I would get a scoop of it about a foot down somewhere in your yard that is unlikely to have chemicals in it. Bake the soil on 200 till its dry and all broke up and you could add 4 tbs of calcium or reptile minerals (to about 8 cups) when it's wet and make a calcium rich mineralized soil to add into your soil mix. If not its all good though. If you don't have that you can always make fertilizer tabs with osmocote plus and red art clay. Just put 12 pearls inside a ball of clay and dry then push them into the soil around plants that need it. If you can use some soil from a yard then it will be awhile before anything will need extra nutrients except a little liquid ferts for some of the epiphytic plants. I personally use dry ferts I mix myself but you could use miraclegro if you are in a pinch I just don't like the blue dye they add since it's unnecessary they might have a dye free mix from someone now. or grab a liquid aquarium fertilizer it's just more expensive long term but easy to use and should last a good long while. 

Yes osmocote is safe for the frogs it's just minerals I use them with ultra sensitive invertebrates in my fish tanks and in my frog tanks. (Just in case someone is worried). Nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (NPK) with trace elements is all it is with a slow release binding agent made out of petroleum also a natural product.


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

Ok thanks again. I'll mix in the sand and carbon and try and take out as much moss as I can. I'll let you know how it goes. Wouod you reccommend mixing it into the stuff that's already in there or should I mix up a new lot?


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

--Mark-- said:


> Ok thanks again. I'll mix in the sand and carbon and try and take out as much moss as I can. I'll let you know how it goes. Wouod you reccommend mixing it into the stuff that's already in there or should I mix up a new lot?


I would reuse what's there and just add ingredients till it looks like it will have good drainage but still hold a shape when squeezed.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

sand is not the best material to add...even sharp river type....occupies the spaces where you want oxygen...the bits of charcoal are a much better option--the microfauna will thrive on it...sand not at all...and sand will eventually find it's way to the bottom of the vivarium....


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## --Mark-- (Nov 25, 2014)

I've redone it. When I was taking it out to mix in the new stuff only the edges seemed water logged. Most of the plants' roots were damp but not dry or soaked. I mixed in 2 parts coco fibre : 2 parts carbon : 1 part sand. It seems to be draining a bit better. Having all the substrate out let me redo the water feature. I forgot to put a sponge around the pump so it blocked, but I've now put the foam around it.

Thanks For all your help!
Mark


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Good stuff!! Pictures please. Plants are resilient so you will be fine they just grow a bit better with a bit of drainage is all  


--Mark-- said:


> I've redone it. When I was taking it out to mix in the new stuff only the edges seemed water logged. Most of the plants' roots were damp but not dry or soaked. I mixed in 2 parts coco fibre : 2 parts carbon : 1 part sand. It seems to be draining a bit better. Having all the substrate out let me redo the water feature. I forgot to put a sponge around the pump so it blocked, but I've now put the foam around it.
> 
> Thanks For all your help!
> Mark


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