# color enhancement for blue aurautus?



## cornchild (Oct 15, 2010)

i hear paprika only benefits frogs with yellow strips?..


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Dietary supplements for pigment enhancement are only available for yellow, orange and red, as far as I know. I believe that paprika produces red pigmentation, so if you have a Leucomela, for example, it could make the yellow look more orange.

I've never heard of a dietary supplement that enhances blue or green pigmentation.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> Blue is not a color that can be modified by the use of any additional carotenoid supplementation as it is the result of light being reflected off of iridiopores and not being modified by other pigments.
> ...
> Ed


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/55340-new-repashy-supplement-contains-canthaxanthin.html#post479560


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Keep your frog as healthy as possible. Changing the color temperature of your lighting may help the blue show up more depending on what you're using.. but there isn't anything similar to paprika/superpig/etc. specifically for blues.


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## kinison (Jul 1, 2010)

I have never heard anything of the sort. I know some people including Josh's Frogs - Herps Feeders and All The Reptile Supplies You need include "color enhancers" in fruit fly medias, however is it tough to gut load fruit flys. What portions of the flies that are actually consumed and absorbed to the frog are highly controversial. To be honest, the color my Azureus look no different from those who induce color enhancements to the frog or fruit fly media. My Azureus seem to be blue, large, and happy. I have about 5 different lines of Leucomelas. Some are more orange and others are more yellow. Regardless of how I supplement their diet, they all seem to retain the same base color. I believe it comes down to genetics. I keep up with calcium and vitamin sups for all my frogs. I guess I over did it if my Azureus starts crapping blue terds  Personally, just give them a variety of food every now and then and supplement the flies with vitamins and calcium with D3. If you feed often and have enough vivarium space, you will see the results of a happy frog. A bright, blue, happy frog that will suck you into the frog world we all love so much


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I wish I could say things as eloquently as Ed.


Tony said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/55340-new-repashy-supplement-contains-canthaxanthin.html#post479560


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

JimO said:


> I wish I could say things as eloquently as Ed.


There is a reason I just quote him instead of trying to restate it myself.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JimO said:


> Dietary supplements for pigment enhancement are only available for yellow, orange and red, as far as I know. I believe that paprika produces red pigmentation, so if you have a Leucomela, for example, it could make the yellow look more orange.
> 
> I've never heard of a dietary supplement that enhances blue or green pigmentation.



There are several carotenoids in paprika that in theory could play a part in coloration of frogs but sadly, the red pigments in paprika are not them. These carotenoids have a structure that significantly limits the ability of an animal to absorb those carotenoids (and this is before we take into consideration other things like competition between carotenoids..). Paprika does contain significant levels of beta carotene which is what intensifies yellows and to a lesser extent orange. It does very very little for red coloration at the levels fed the frogs. If you want to help with red coloration, you should be looking at astaxanthin and to a lesser extent canthaxanthin.. 

I have to admit the continuing folklore about paprika is starting to annoy me as I have documented the problems with it as a source for red pigmentation and repeated it multiple times... 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

kinison said:


> I have never heard anything of the sort. I know some people including Josh's Frogs - Herps Feeders and All The Reptile Supplies You need include "color enhancers" in fruit fly medias, however is it tough to gut load fruit flys. What portions of the flies that are actually consumed and absorbed to the frog are highly controversial. To be honest, the color my Azureus look no different from those who induce color enhancements to the frog or fruit fly media. My Azureus seem to be blue, large, and happy. I have about 5 different lines of Leucomelas. Some are more orange and others are more yellow. Regardless of how I supplement their diet, they all seem to retain the same base color. I believe it comes down to genetics. I keep up with calcium and vitamin sups for all my frogs. I guess I over did it if my Azureus starts crapping blue terds  Personally, just give them a variety of food every now and then and supplement the flies with vitamins and calcium with D3. If you feed often and have enough vivarium space, you will see the results of a happy frog. A bright, blue, happy frog that will suck you into the frog world we all love so much


If you add an appropriate source of carotenoids to the media, depending on the carotenoids, it can be taken up and sequestered in the eyes of the flies along with a metabolically effective version of vitamin A (provided the flies are kept in bright light). 
If you feed out larval Drosophila, the carotenoids will adhere to the skin of larva staining it allowing for the frogs to take up the carotenoids. 

Azureus pigmentation is not changable by supplementation. If you are not seeing any real change in your coloration of the leucomelas, then you may not be using the appropriate carotenoids, and/or insufficient levels of the carotenods and/or the metabolic demand is greater than the demand for sequestering them for pigmentation. If the demand is sufficient, a wide variety of carotenoids can be converted to vitamin A via several metabolic pathways. I suggest checking out the review in the latest issue of Leaf Litter.... 

Ed


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Ed said:


> I have to admit the continuing folklore about paprika is starting to annoy me as I have documented the problems with it as a source for red pigmentation and repeated it multiple times...


But Ed, you're expecting fact/data to actually convince people over conjecture/hobby dogma. 

You should know better than that.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

skylsdale said:


> But Ed, you're expecting fact/data to actually convince people over conjecture/hobby dogma.
> 
> You should know better than that.


I should... 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

skylsdale said:


> But Ed, you're expecting fact/data to actually convince people over conjecture/hobby dogma.
> 
> You should know better than that.


Paprika is used and continues to be used, in the hobby, for enhancing yellow coloration. The most effective delivery system is suspension in water - consumed by tadpoles and not dusting.

As far as "Dogma" and "Conjecture" and "Anecdotes".....with so few studies and papers submitted....and very few experts....that's all we have most times.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> Paprika is used and continues to be used, in the hobby, for enhancing yellow coloration. The most effective delivery system is suspension in water - consumed by tadpoles and not dusting.
> 
> As far as "Dogma" and "Conjecture" and "Anecdotes".....with so few studies and papers submitted....and very few experts....that's all we have most times.


 
I have my doubts on this as virtually all tadpoles lack the chromatophores to store beta carotene in the skin (which is where it would be for pigment use). In addition, beta carotene is stored in a couple of other tissues in tadpoles and there isn't a lot of evidence for it to be remobilized to other locations but if it was in circulation in the blood in sufficient excess during metamorphosis; it could end up in the chromatophors...However this is going to be on a species by species case as for example the yellow coloration seen in R. ventrimaculatus tadpoles isn't from stored carotenoids or even pterin pigments but is due to iridiopores reflecting yellow light (which is why it is metallic looking). Some dendrobatids based on anecdotal evidence have a window in which coloration can be achieved (some Epidobates for example). 

Tadpoles are much more metabolically programmed to utilize astaxanthin, lutein, and several other carotenoids over beta carotene. 

There are a surprising number of papers out there on carotenoids in anurans (and tadpoles).. and I've read through a significant chunk of them in researching the Leaf Litter articles and the information I've provided here.. For some odd reason, a lot of hobbyists don't use even the google scholar search function and pay for the articles, instead relying on free information that is often pure dogma... 

Ed


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Thank you Ed. I stand corrected regarding my comments related to paprika enhancing red coloration. My apologies. I should stick with what I know. 


Ed said:


> Paprika does contain significant levels of beta carotene which is what intensifies yellows and to a lesser extent orange. It does very very little for red coloration at the levels fed the frogs. If you want to help with red coloration, you should be looking at astaxanthin and to a lesser extent canthaxanthin..
> 
> I have to admit the continuing folklore about paprika is starting to annoy me as I have documented the problems with it as a source for red pigmentation and repeated it multiple times...
> 
> Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JimO said:


> Thank you Ed. I stand corrected regarding my comments related to paprika enhancing red coloration. My apologies. I should stick with what I know.


 
Hi Jim,

I apologize. It wasn't aimed at you, I was just a little cranky at the moment as it does crop up really frequently. 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Give a man a fish....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> Give a man a fish....


Is it a red snapper? Very tasty...


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