# Pros and cons egg crate vs false bottom?



## Venomgland (Dec 31, 2017)

I'm curious to hear what every ones opinions are? I feel using the egg crate over the false bottom is less cost, more space for drainage water, it would also be easier to see the water line too, but I don't know if thats whats best. At least with the false bottom the plant roots have somewhere to go. With the egg crate the roots have no where to keep going, but then again I don't know if that really matters.


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## ibarran (Jan 5, 2015)

I've done both and for the reasons you just mentioned, I prefer eggcrate. I leave a 1 inch gap in the front and fill it with leca or growstones cause I think it looks a little better.


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## Venomgland (Dec 31, 2017)

ibarran said:


> I've done both and for the reasons you just mentioned, I prefer eggcrate. I leave a 1 inch gap in the front and fill it with leca or growstones cause I think it looks a little better.


I was wondering how a good way to hide it would be. Thanks for the tip


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I like the egg crate better because I like to put a bead of silicone around the edge of the fiberglass screen that I use to wrap around the egg crate. The rigidity of the egg crate allows the silicone to dry nicely and cleanly. The purpose of the silicone is to lock the substrate up away from the drainage layer. Siliconing the free-floating piece of fiberglass above the clay balls was much more difficult. Also, egg crate with nothing underneath is cheaper ;-) I just paint the front and sides of the outside glass with black hobby paint up to the level of the silicone bead.

One more word of caution - don't do what I recommend above UNLESS you either have a drainage bulkhead in the tank of you have some sort of pipe coming up out of the drainage layer that you can use to siphon the water out of the drainage layer. Otherwise, you have locked the drainage layer water away, along with the locking the substrate above the egg crate 

Mark


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

OP mentioned roots having nowhere to go, as a possible drawback of an eggcrate false bottom. That would only be true if you used weedblock, which is made to block, as opposed to the much better fiberglass window screen mesh, which is made to flow (air). Not only does the screen mesh allow the water to freely drain, MUCH quicker than any weedblock will, it also allows the roots to punch right down through the screen mesh. 
Yes, you will have dead air space below the eggcrate. You may think the roots will die when exposed to this. They do not. That area has got to be pushing 90% plus, on humidity. You have created a humidity zone. Humidity zones are a tried and true hydroponics principal, and is a crucial part of the most widely used hydroponics system ever, NFT, or Nutrient Film Technique. Basically, the air space is humid enough to allow the roots to continue to grow through that dead air space, until the roots hit the water below.
I used to be concerned that when the roots grew down into the water, they would drown, as that water is not aerated. Turns out it has never been a concern. The roots grow right down into the water, and the plants do not drown.

That pretty much negates the possible argument that LECA would give more rooting area.

One more thing to take into account. If you have a good drainage system, or you left that one inch gap for a gravel fill, mentioned earlier for aesthetics, you can drain the water for a lighter to move vivarium. Pull some gravel back and get a siphon hose down in there, and a false bottom tank is easier to move.

There is one big advantage to using LECA. It's quick and easy. 
LECA has another advantage for those who may question their construction skills. An improperly made false bottom, can allow frogs to get below the false bottom and drown. Rare, but I've heard of several occurrences on DendroBoard. I also saw a friend's Tinc tank, with a couple tadpoles trapped down below. He said it happened from time to time, and he could never get them out. Eventually, they morph and drown. A LECA layer eliminates that risk, if your forte is not viv construction.
Finally, LECA is great for those odd shaped tanks, like hex bottoms, corner bowfronts, and other imaginatively shaped vivs. Odd shaped false bottoms can take a little more time and effort.


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

Egg crate is much lighter as well


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've had bromeliad roots grow through the clay substrate and through the clay layer through the air gap and into the water layer (and the white actively branching tips were clearly not dead...). 

If the screening has silicone used to adhere it to the glass you can eliminate the risk of the tadpoles or frogs getting under the egg crating... 

The one thing I would add is for those who use pvc supports for the egg crating (which I do, is that they should cut a wedge into the bottom of the pvc for water drainage as this eliminates the smaller volume from going anaerobic. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Venomgland (Dec 31, 2017)

Pumilo said:


> OP mentioned roots having nowhere to go, as a possible drawback of an eggcrate false bottom. That would only be true if you used weedblock, which is made to block, as opposed to the much better fiberglass window screen mesh, which is made to flow (air). Not only does the screen mesh allow the water to freely drain, MUCH quicker than any weedblock will, it also allows the roots to punch right down through the screen mesh.
> Yes, you will have dead air space below the eggcrate. You may think the roots will die when exposed to this. They do not. That area has got to be pushing 90% plus, on humidity. You have created a humidity zone. Humidity zones are a tried and true hydroponics principal, and is a crucial part of the most widely used hydroponics system ever, NFT, or Nutrient Film Technique. Basically, the air space is humid enough to allow the roots to continue to grow through that dead air space, until the roots hit the water below.
> I used to be concerned that when the roots grew down into the water, they would drown, as that water is not aerated. Turns out it has never been a concern. The roots grow right down into the water, and the plants do not drown.
> 
> ...


WOW, you made some very strong points for both sides.. Thank you very much! To save a couple bucks doesn't seem worth it to me to lose an occasional tadpole or frog. I'd feel like a cheap ******* if that happened to me.


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## Venomgland (Dec 31, 2017)

Ed said:


> I've had bromeliad roots grow through the clay substrate and through the clay layer through the air gap and into the water layer (and the white actively branching tips were clearly not dead...).
> 
> If the screening has silicone used to adhere it to the glass you can eliminate the risk of the tadpoles or frogs getting under the egg crating...
> 
> ...


Hmmm.. Silicone the screen to the tank! That sounds good to me! Thanks for the tip on cutting wedges into the supports! I think I'll drill a couple small holes in the supports too. It will only take seconds.


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## Tay0001 (Jun 14, 2017)

My little tip/suggestion for either egg crate or expanded clay/LECA is that you can use crushed lump charcoal/activated carbon around the edges to mask the appearance of whatever drainage layer you choose. You can still see the water line, though it is admittedly a little more difficult because it is darker.


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## Malaki33 (Dec 21, 2007)

I actually use both in mine (I know that probably sounds odd) I put down the egg crate and the screen. I then add a layer of LECA, with another piece of screen, then I lay the substrate. I will say that using egg crate does take away from the aesthetics of a vivarium.


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

what about throwing another into the mix, growstones, crushed glass, whatever its called. same a LECA in principle but much much lighter and much cheaper, assuming you have a hydroponics store near you. you can get a large bag for $20


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## Venomgland (Dec 31, 2017)

I think I am going to leave the 1" gap in the front, but line the egg crate with screen all the way around. Then fill the front 1" gap with josh's false bottom. that will it will match my other vivarium and I'll save a few bucks.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

bsr8129 said:


> what about throwing another into the mix, growstones, crushed glass, whatever its called. same a LECA in principle but much much lighter and much cheaper, assuming you have a hydroponics store near you. you can get a large bag for $20


Nothing changes. It's another perfectly viable alternative, but is pretty much the same thing as LECA, insofar as it's use and purpose is concerned.
LECA stands for Lightweight Expanded Clay Aggregate.
I'm fairly certain you are referring to a product know as expanded glass.
One is expanded clay, fired and hardened at extremely high temperatures, making the clay pretty much inert.
The other is expanded, recycled glass, which also goes through a heat and, I believe, pressure process to drive the air into it. Being glass, it is also pretty much inert.

In our hobby, they are used interchangeably, in exactly the same way, to serve exactly the same process.
In the hydroponics industry, the same is true.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> The other is expanded, recycled glass, which also goes through a heat and, I believe, pressure process to drive the air into it. *Being glass, it is also pretty much inert.*


Something to consider here. The orchid and also the hydroponics guys have been _around and around_ on this topic. Folks who have pH-tested their drain water from "fresh outta the bag" GrowStones say it's very alkaline. Most organisms - whether they have cell walls or not - that originate from high-rainfall places do not like high pH.

Some folks in the hydroponic conversation have gone all histrionic on this and eschewed "puffed glass" utterly, completely, and implacably. Others have come up with a workaround that they say works fine; then they get the benefits of the glass. The workaround is a lengthy acid bath.

Just as a "personal testimonial" - I have bought and used plenty of LECA, and more recently, one big sack of GrowStones. I like the hydraulic performance of the GrowStones more than LECA, and I like their weight better too. They wick pretty well (way higher than LECA), they are super light (way lighter than LECA), and I believe they hold pore-space water vapor quite well - much better than LECA, having much more surface area - so they are inviting substrate for fine roots to invade and prosper. Finally, I just like their look a lot better - they look a fair bit like marble or limestone gravel, like you see in ephemeral water channels in some karst landscapes. (I mean to get around to building a) some backgrounds with exposed areas of GS's and b) some water features with visible GS's). LECA is obviously unnatural and I don't really care to look at it, though its color is more "earth toned" or neutral so it blends in alright. So - I'm sold. I like and use both, but if I have to look at it, or if the build has "a lot" of it, I now choose the glass over the LECA. On hydraulic performance, aesthetics, and weight.

Anyway, blah blah blah, yeah yeah yeah, another book outta yours truly. Here's something useful. The alkaline workaround I used - 
1) put the sack in a 7-gal bucket, 
2) put a brick on top of the sack (essential!), 
3) pour a gallon of "cleaning grade" white vinegar in the bucket, 
4) pour enough fresh water into the bucket to cover the sack, 
5) come back and top off the water the next day, when the GrowStones are done absorbing water (it takes a little while this first time - they are popcorn-dry from manufacturing at this point; they absorb a lot of water this first time getting wet, too), 
6) leave the bucket alone for a few weeks, 
7) drain and refill the bucket with fresh water for a rinse, 
8) leave the bucket alone a few more days, 
9) pour away the water and use your neutralized GrowStones.

It sounds like a lot of work but it isn't. It's a "time for effort substitution". Chillax, and let passivity be your helper. All you have to do is add or dump fluids a few times. It's way easier than the crap we used to go through neutralizing cement grout, if the comparison means anything to you.

cheers
Jimi

PS oh yeah the OP's question. I've done both. I began with it, but haven't used eggcrate in years. I still have some in a supplies tub in my garage, I think. I just...I dunno. F*ckin plastic, ya know? "Does it have to be _everywhere_?" Nope, it don't.


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## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

well some good info on this post 
look like I maybe going with egg crate for mine


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

About a year into using Growstones now, I thought a followup might be in order. The acid bath definitely works to stabilize the pH. However it does not seem to fix another problem that seems to be a feature of the borosilicate glass. Apparently it adds silicates? These feed brown algae. I've experimented with the glass, adding and removing it from different sumps and viv set-ups. I am pretty convinced it facilitates the growth of brown algae. It a drain & dump situation this isn't terminal. In a recirc situation it is (IMO) unacceptable.

LECA doesn't have this problem.



> I like the egg crate better because I like to put a bead of silicone around the edge of the fiberglass screen that I use to wrap around the egg crate. The rigidity of the egg crate allows the silicone to dry nicely and cleanly. The purpose of the silicone is to lock the substrate up away from the drainage layer. Siliconing the free-floating piece of fiberglass above the clay balls was much more difficult.


I have been touting the use of Matala here (even though it's a plastic - ugh). It is vastly lighter than LECA, and also leaves more room for water than LECA, in its bigger pore space. It also shares the above-noted advantage of egg crate - it too makes it super-easy to see where to "draw your line" with silicone, to hold your window screen in place and prevent animals from diving down into the drainage layer/false bottom. (I don't like egg-crate. It's not nice to work with, it's not nice to look at IMO. Just an opinion though, to each their own.)

Hopefully this is useful to someone.

cheers


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