# a few mantid pictures.



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Posing in the unfinished highland lamasi viv. NO FROGS IN THERE!!!!! But it makes a cool place to take some pics
Acanthops sp. South american dead leaf mimic from French Guyana to Colombia
This is my L6 female

































Ghost mantis- Madagascar/Asian dead leaf mantis L6 female


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Nice! Please post more.

I can't keep frogs anytime soon, but I might start a small collection of mantids.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Love the ghost! He looks like some kind of specter of death!


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Great looking mantids... Post some more


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Nice! I've always wanted some mantid species. Keep the pics coming.


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## jckee1 (Mar 22, 2011)

What is the life expectancy for these guys?
Jim


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh great! Now I'm going to have to get mantids. Where will I put them?


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## Sticky Fingers (Sep 28, 2011)

Sweet! Can we get a fts too?


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Yes, I would like to see how the vivs are setup for them.


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## Grrrit (May 30, 2011)

I've been planning on getting some ghosts, very cool critters indeed! Maybe one day an orchid mantis of the opportunity presents itself.


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## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

These are awesome. I need one. More pictures please.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

These are awesome! They look like they are really small and you could keep them in a nano viv?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

They aren't full size yet but yes you could keep them in a nano


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

dont waste the money on a nano... just buy a rack of 5.5 gal tanks and go from there. i would love to do mantises, however i cant figure out the food. blue bottle seems the only thing worthy and its a LOT (not money)to culture.
Frogparty, what are your plans for feeding after they are done with FFs?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm curious as to what kind of bugs you feed these guys. Is there a need to culture new types of (bigger) bugs or can you feed them with the same fruit flies and isopods we already culture?

edit: Looks like Moty beat me to it.


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

I saw ff when young then roaches, moths and house flies.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

great minds think alike doug



dtfleming said:


> I saw ff when young then roaches, moths and house flies.


depends on the sp. some really only want to take flying prey.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

They are off ff's and eating crickets and houseflies. I buy housefly pupae and just hatch them out. I think I pay $5 for 500 do it's pretty cheap, and if fed the adults live for a
month and there isn't any smell. I know a few people on here have dubias too and they love a little dubia nymph. The orchid mantis really prefer flying food, or at least the movement of fluttering wings. There is no need to supplement their feeders beyond gutloadi g crickets, but there's a lot to be said for dusting with a little bee pollen because the mantids eat a lot of bees in nature and apparently there's some evidence that fecundity and ootheca size increases. I know a breeder who has a beehive just for this purpose. I will just catch some bees this summer.
They really are awesome, and their requirements are so much more simple than darts


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## WeeNe858 (Sep 13, 2010)

Do you know of any locals who breed these mantis? I have a nano orchid tank that needs an occupant.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I do. I have ootheca of Creobroter pictipipennis (indian flower) Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii (spiny flower) and Oxyopsis gracilis (south american green) incubating now. I have stock of Ghosts, orchids, and dead leaf acanthops too young to breed yet, but soon. If you want some now, I can direct you to someone in so cal or to a good retailer


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'd love to hear recommendations for retailers, and let me know whenever you might have those ghosts ready to go. I want to use ghosts in the 30 that I already have set up and I'd like to figure out a second species for the 37 that I just started working on.


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## Joseph26 (Jan 26, 2010)

Forgive my ignorance, but i thought Orchid Mantids were illegal in the US? If they aren't I definitely want to try and get some.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Interstate sale of termites is illegal too.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Well now I'm reminded why I have been apprehensive about this idea before. I don't know that I want to spend the time and money culturing mantids and posting pictures on the Internet just to wait for the day that they decide to crack down on all the mantid hobbyists.

One reference that I ran into explained that it is _not_ illegal to keep US native mantids? Is this right? One of the online mantid stores has several native species.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I didn't know that about termites. Makes sense, I guess. Though it's not like termites aren't already a pest everywhere, right?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Joseph26 said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but i thought Orchid Mantids were illegal in the US? If they aren't I definitely want to try and get some.


No they are not illegal in the US as a federal policy. As I understand it, some states have regulations against the sale and transport of mantids (Florida). Most other states do not regulate mantids. See for example http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/enpp/pdf/Guideline-for-Importing-Exotic-and-Non.pdf

Under federal regulations they are not considered a plant pest so just like tarantulas they aren't regulated..


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I think Florida has strict regulations, otherwise it's not illegal. I have seen Washington and California wildlife officials at shows where these are being sold and they didn't even bat an eye. 


I have looked in several places and cannot find anything about them being illegal, because as Ed pointed out they are not plant pests and are regulated like tarantulas.
No worries the Feds won't be coming to get me because of my modest mantid collection.
APHIS regulation wording can be confusing


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks for these clarifications.

Misleading information about this question predominates on the interwebs.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Tell me about it! I was worried about it for a while but went digging and couldnt find a damn thing to convince me I was doing wrong.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

hydrophyte said:


> Thanks for these clarifications.
> 
> Misleading information about this question predominates on the interwebs.


Which is a sad thing... Once again, we can only hope the facts do in the misinformation.... 

Ed


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## WeeNe858 (Sep 13, 2010)

frogparty, all of the mantis you have in your collection possess the same requirements, ~80% humidity and prefer flying prey?

Maybe you can bring a few up to the next SCADS meet and I'll take some off your hands!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah all like higher humidity. The ghosts can take to 60% but everything gets screen top enclosures and daily misting. I will bring what I have ready to the next SCADS meeting. What I'll have ready will be cricket/roach friendly no need for flies.


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

Any chance you can list your viv setup for these? What plants, wood etc would work best?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Enclosure needs to be 3x the height of the mantid and at least 2x as long. They need a secure place to hang from to molt successfully without obstruction. Any wood works as long as it's not super slick. The rougher the better. Plants that we use in our PDF tanks work just fine, except stuff that needs ultra high humidity. Many people keep them in very sterile containers, just paper towel in the bottom of a 32 oz deli cup with a twig going diagonally from bottom to top


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogparty said:


> Yeah all like higher humidity. The ghosts can take to 60% but everything gets screen top enclosures and daily misting. I will bring what I have ready to the next SCADS meeting. What I'll have ready will be cricket/roach friendly no need for flies.


In my experience even those that are listed as preferring flying food, will quite readily accept crickets or other small crawling insects. I often fed them off of tweezers.. 

Ed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I'll try that. Thanks. I used to forcep feed roaches to my tarantulas


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogparty said:


> I'll try that. Thanks. I used to forcep feed roaches to my tarantulas


Hold the roach or cricket by an antenna or leg and slowly bring it forward towards the mantis. The swinging action tends to get them looking at it like a flying insect. 

If you have the time to sit and watch them, add the appropriate sized cricket to the enclosure and they often climb up towards the mantis, which also triggers the mantis to nab it. Roaches tend to head down instead of up.. 

The number 9 mantids I had would hang upside down on the lids of the critter keepers so I could gently pop the lid off and turn it upside down and then use the center of the top as a feeding platform. Most of the mantis would readily wait for (and some would approach) the small cricket and nab it. Once they started feeding I would gently turn the lid back upside down and put it back on the enclosure..... 

Ed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Number nine mantis are the same as spiny flower mantis Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii. 
I have an ootheca of this species I'm dying to have hatch.'awesome mantids for sure. Any of the genus in the family Hymenopidae are my favorites. The Pseudocreobotra seem to have a lot of personality, and there is some evidence you can manipulate their color depending on their surroundings. So I'll be growing some nymphs up on different colored plants to see if I can get them to go more orange, pink, purple


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The ones I had were identified originally as P. ocellata.. Very similar. 

Ed


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Black Soldier Flies are extremely easy to rear from phoenix worms and would make a great feeder for mantids.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I will look into those, thanks! The houseflies are cheap and easy, but diversity is never a bad thing.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

they are SO COOL and INTERESTING!! 
I just love them


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

How easy are they to breed? What size prey do the hatchlings eat? Fruitflies? I may have a new obsession...


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

It's not bad. Helps to have a few extra males, just in case *munchy munchy* the females get hungry. Newly hatched nymphs eat fruit flies. Melanogaster or hydei.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

frogparty said:


> It's not bad. Helps to have a few extra males, just in case *munchy munchy* the females get hungry. Newly hatched nymphs eat fruit flies. Melanogaster or hydei.


Females will kill each other too.... I found two females of different species fighting on a tree last year. May I post a pic in your thread?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Please do. My ghosts are communal, and the Acanthops seem ok if given enough space. Otherwise they are pretty cannibalistic. I'd never put m orchid mantis together.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

The brown one had been flying around the backyard, landed on the tree and both of them jumped at each other at the same time. Then the brown one tried to fly away but fell instead. By the time I had run inside to get my camera it had started to rain, so I managed to dig up the soil they were on, which didnt stop them from fighting at all, and bring them inside onto a plastic sheeting. The brown one was extremely aggressive but seemed to have lost the use of one of its front limbs. The green one managed to kill it from the bottom position, then rolled it over. First thing it did was chew off the brown ones head. There were some kids watching (it was a family picnic in the backyard), and jeez kids are blood thirsty lol. You should have heard the comments! I;m not sure what species they are, never bothered to look. I might do that now...

Edit: I kept the green one for a couple of weeks, fed her full grown crickets. I took the pic of the mantid on my finger as a size reference before I released it


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

the green is def a female, cant see how many segments the brown had? they are some type of Sphodromantis maybe viridis?


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## ophiophagus (Dec 10, 2011)

Killer pictures and mantids! Those are some of my favorite spcecies. I don't recall ever seeing the south american sp. though. About six onths ago I traded some of my favorite bugs for some violin mantid nymphs, because I had a hair up my butt to own some. Didn't end well they all died within two months. Not sure where I went wrong but I miss the centipedes I traded for them


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Violins~ Gongylus gongyloides like it hot and dry, like 90 to 100 degrees and really only like flying prey


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## FrogFever (Aug 12, 2011)

FrogParty I'm so glad you posted this! I was literally just looking at ghost and orchid mantids a couple days ago! I knew instantly that I had to have them. 
Could you recommend any trusted retailer to purchase them from? Any local breeder would be even better.... I know you used to live in the Seattle area.


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## FrogNub (Aug 5, 2009)

Here is a helpful link for any of you all that are interested. Just like this board, theirs is packed full of useful information:

Mantidforum

There are many similarities between PDFs and Mantids - especially among the enthusiasts!


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

Great thread, I just picked up some mantids at a frog party here in wis last weekend. I have about ten very young ones, don't really need that many but thats what was in the cup. The information here will help me ...Thanks


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Hopefully you know what you got. Some need pretty specialized care.


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## WeeNe858 (Sep 13, 2010)

I hope you're still bringing some to the meet!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah I will be bringing a few.


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

Not sure what I have frogparty, The fellow I got them from said they were Chinese praying mantids so until I hear different  here is a photo of one eating a ff sorry the pic quality isnt the best...does it look Chinese to you ?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Chinese are just about the easiest mantids to care for. You can buy their ootheca from lots of garden centers for like $5 and hatch out 100+ nymphs from them. They are the only widely available mantid that's acceptable to release into the wd, so many people put them in their gardens as pest control


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

A few pics form today. 
Phyllocrania paradoxa molted to adult yesterday
























Shes the lightest in color of the 3 females Ive got. Pretty light tan color

Hymenopus coronatus. Getting bigger, still at least a month before any of them hit adulthood


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Amazing!......


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## rvsur (Dec 13, 2010)

These are stellar. Can anyone recommend a good care sheet or source of information on keeping them? Maybe even a good source for them?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I have a few Pseudocreobotra wahlbergii about ready to ship. 
Mantidforum.net is the only USA based mantis forum. Lots of good care sheets and sponsors.
I'm also happy to answer questions via pm


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## VPardoel (Apr 2, 2010)

These are awesome animals.
If i weren't a frog geek i'd be keeping these jewels.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

frogparty said:


>


These are so cool.

Once in Mexico I found a white flower mantid.


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

I know my Chinese mantid is pretty plain compared to these beauties but it's still kind of cool, today when I was checking the frog room I glanced in the mantid tank & saw it was in the process of shedding  To see it emerging from it's old body was right out of a sci fi movie, I took a few pics hope you find it as amazing as I did


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Awesome!!! I love catching them molting


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

I was so pumped to see how big the mantid would be after it's molt, but when I got home from work last night it was nowhere to be seen there is no way it could have gotten out the lid is very secure, could the crickets have eaten it ? I find that had to believe but maybe it was vulnerable right after its shed, is that possible  there are only like 10 crickets in the 5g tank it was in. Any thoughts would be welcome


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

couldn't it be hiding? aren't mantises supposed to be ambush hunters so they have to be well camoflaged


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

That was my first thought & I spent over an hour observing the tank with a flash light with no sign of it, it usually is hanging out on the bottom of the lid and it should be fairly big as it was about 3.5 inch's long before it molted & it's only a 5g tank I even probed the substrate (moist sphagnum moss)


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Crickets definitely kill mantids during molting, but you'd see pieces leftover. It might have flown away while you weren't looking if it had molted to adult.


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## bristles (Jan 19, 2011)

no, there was no flying going on the crickets must have gotten it, there were parts on the tank floor at first I thought they were leftover parts from it's tank mate. three days ago I went from two mantids to one (as I understand happens) well all I can say is that my orange terribilis will enjoy the murderers


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I lost a few mantids to crickets. 
I don't feed crickets anymore

If you ever want more ill have ghosts and orchids ready in about 2 months


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogparty said:


> I lost a few mantids to crickets.
> I don't feed crickets anymore
> 
> If you ever want more ill have ghosts and orchids ready in about 2 months


If you don't have tons of mantids, it is pretty easy to feed them crickets in way that you have issues with crickets predating on the mantids.. use the critter keeper (or pal pens for those who have been around longer) and if the mantid is on the lid, simply turn it over gently and offer the cricket with tweezers... Alternately pinch the large "knee" joint of the jumping legs of the crickets and they will usually automatically shed the leg, this way you can turn the cricket from a jumping insect that can kick defensively to one that can only crawl. I had good luck doing these methods with not only Creobrater, Hymenopus but an unidentfied stick mantid from Africa.

Are the orchids going to be from seperate clutches or from the same clutch? 

Ed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Ed, I have females and males from two different sources, so there will be no inbreeding and I'll be able to offer unrelated nymphs.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Ed said:


> Alternately pinch the large "knee" joint of the jumping legs of the crickets and they will usually automatically shed the leg, this way you can turn the cricket from a jumping insect that can kick defensively to one that can only crawl.


I feel a lot better knowing that I'm not the only one who does that 

Jake


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogparty said:


> Ed, I have females and males from two different sources, so there will be no inbreeding and I'll be able to offer unrelated nymphs.


I'll have to keep that in mind then... 

Ed


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## Robzilla56 (Aug 2, 2011)

I just wanted to chime in a share my mantid pics. 

I had her for two years till she passed. I also had a male that I kept separate from her.

Once she reached full maturity and had wings ( I think 7 molts ) I waited for her to lay infertile eggs but she never did. I waited as long as I could and then put the male in with her, she immediately ate his head ( I had fed her three crickets prior to this ). 

I kinda despised her after this...she ate flies when she was a baby but she could eat five crickets in a feeding, and the crickets smelled awful. I will probably never get another mantid, but it was fun while it lasted...Dart frogs are much more rewarding.

Although I do miss watching her rip a cricket into pieces...

Robbie


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## Ranitomeya30 (May 6, 2012)

hey do you breed and sell mantids let me know.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I do but I have none available at this time


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## The Dude1 (Jul 5, 2012)

These are amazing. I'm still waiting for my 20g and 46g to grow in before I add PDF's, but I just got a 12x12x18 exo terra and I'd like to put a Mantis in there. Am I out of luck as I live in Fl??


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Check your state laws. Shipping isn't an issue. Your laws might be


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Hey my ghosts all molted again all within a few days of each other. The largest couple of them are big enough now to take the smallest B. dubia nymphs that I have.


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## Gocubs (Apr 23, 2012)

Beautiful. Is the life expectancy really 6months? I'm having trouble locating a care sheet


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

female ghosts can live 2 years. Longer if kept cooler, not overfed and not bred. Males of all mantid species are, shall we say.......expendable


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

hydrophyte said:


> Hey my ghosts all molted again all within a few days of each other. The largest couple of them are big enough now to take the smallest B. dubia nymphs that I have.


You should see them really start to get big fast. If by some chance I mis sexed them when they were super little and you need more females for display animals let me know, I have more nymphs ready to go that are sexable


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I love these creatures. They look so sinister.


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