# PH Level?



## XtReMaTriX (Dec 12, 2006)

What should the PH level be for the water in your tank? and what can you suggest to add to get the PH to that level. 

All of this needs to be safe for frogs.

Thanks!


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

XtReMaTriX said:


> What should the PH level be for the water in your tank?


Anywhere from neutral to slghtly acidic is fine (6.5-7.0) If it dips some below that is fine as long as you keep an eye on and don't let it slip past 6.



> and what can you suggest to add to get the PH to that level.


Depends on where is (PH).

You can use increase/decrease for aquariums.

If youre water is too acidic (more likely to happen) you can add a small amount of baking soda to correct it. Start w/ something like an 1/8 of a teaspoon for every 5 gal and compare the results to determine how much (if any) more is needed.

Sometimes if your water is too far out of range it is just better to change the water out than to add more salts to you viv.

Also what substrate you use will determine ph and depending on certain substrates you may/not have to alter the ph. If you're interested in using an actual soil substrate you can go about altering the ph by adding the ammendments required. This gives you a rider range of frog friendly solutions, and a greater long term buffering capacity as to not bring drops and spikes in yoyr enclosure.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I don't even attempt to alter the pH of the water I use in my dart frog tanks for water falls and ponds. They are rarely in contact with it, and the substrate and tannins, etc. amend the water quality and pH. In my own case, I have very hard, but otherwise pure, contaminant-free well water, with a pH of around 7.8, which is relatively alkaline, as the aquifer flows through miles of limestone. This is on the upper side for keeping most fish, but most tropicals still do well in my paludariums. The frogs do fine with this as the basis for the waterways, and have done so for over 10 years. For some purposes, such as raising tads, I add a bit of Amazon black water extract, which I presume acidifies it a bit, as well as throwing in some oak leaves. I quite frankly, never check the pH other than the state report on my well water I get every two years. 

I'm not sure that stchupa is correct in saying that water being too acidic is more likely to happen, because with aquariums, I've always found the opposite to be true. But this depends upon where you live and your water source. 

In any event, your terrestrial frogs will be unlikely to be affected by pH of the water you use for the water features.


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## Obliv79 (Oct 31, 2007)

Finally a discussion that I know without even second guessing myself. A ph level of 7.0 should be a perfect level for your frogs. As far as your ph level Patty that is high even for tropicals. Most tropicals are usually between 6.0 and 7.5 you're almost at 8 which is marine tank standard (salt water for those that aren't sure). Wouldn't fuss to much if your fish are doing well then no harm no foul.


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## XtReMaTriX (Dec 12, 2006)

I have a tank with a small pond and a Sump connected to it with aquatic plants in it. I was thinking of getting a sucker fish or a snail to clean up some of the algae.

The PH is around 7.8 I believe. I tried to do a good size water change and I even add the Black Water, but I cant seem to get my water ph to change.

I use RO water that is around 6.0.

Not sure what to do.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

This is a mystery. How can you be using originally, RO water at around 6.0 and it turns out to be 7.8?? Something here doesn't make sense, or have I misunderstood along the line? What are you using to determine the Ph? That might be a clue.


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## Obliv79 (Oct 31, 2007)

What is in the pond decoration wise some stones/woods have an increasing affect on ph while others have a decreasing effect. Are you adding other chemicals to the water like water conditioner, stress zyme etc? The best way I've found to test ph levels is with an aquarium water testing kit Laborett seems to be the standard from my experience.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

slaytonp said:


> I'm not sure that stchupa is correct in saying that water being too acidic is more likely to happen, because with aquariums, I've always found the opposite to be true. But this depends upon where you live and your water source.


Well Patty, I guess I have a bit of a problem, assuming that everyone starts out using RO like I do. Adding pure water to an existing system should never be able to raise ph on its own and w/ the ongoing organic breakdown inevitably occuring it's far more likely to drop ph over time/ accumilation. Of course, again, this is also dependant on the substrate and how you treat/add too it.

Going from 6-7.8 seems strange, but I haven't the slightest clue what you have in your viv so who's to say. Until we get a little more insight I think it will be unlikely anyone to have much else they can offer to help.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Obliv79 said:


> Finally a discussion that I know without even second guessing myself. A ph level of 7.0 should be a perfect level for your frogs. As far as your ph level Patty that is high even for tropicals. Most tropicals are usually between 6.0 and 7.5 you're almost at 8 which is marine tank standard (salt water for those that aren't sure). Wouldn't fuss to much if your fish are doing well then no harm no foul.


Many amphibians including frogs can be found associated with fairly low pHs. For example in the dry season, the pH of blackwater streams in Central and South America can range as low as 5.0. 
With respect to the high pH while many marine systems have pHs in this range it is also not that uncommon to find pHs in this range in freshwater due to dissolved carbonates. These situations can be found in the habitat for some african cichlids or limestone springs and even fish normally considered to be "softer water or lower pH" can thrive in these conditions (for example brook trout in limestone springs). 

Ed


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## Chano (Oct 29, 2007)

Ed said:


> even fish normally considered to be "softer water or lower pH" can thrive in these conditions (for example brook trout in limestone springs).
> 
> Ed


I have personally seen this with native brook trout. In mountain springs (we tested the water because we used it in a friends freshwater tank when i was a kid. We figured it would be more pure than well or tap water as it is comming from a spring up in the mountains where there was no dumping (that we were aware of or could find traces of) The ph was 7.8-8.0 it worked fine in his tank although we introduced it pretty slowly (1/2 gallon at a time weekly water changes in a 55) His fish never seemed to mind at all. (The trout were delicious i might add although natives tend to be really small)


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

*testing pH*

As Patty asked, how are you testing your pH? Do you have an alternate system to 'test the test'?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Most of the drop or other over the counter tests for pH or other water quality issues typically give you a ball park figure (although they like to advertise that they are more accurate). 
If you want to get a really good idea of the pH use a pH probe which can be calibrated with test solutions. 
If taken care of the probes last a long time and are quick, efficient and most importantly accurate. 

Ed


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

I'm with Ed and Patty here. Although the pH of water and soils in the tropics tends to be slightly acid, there is a lot of variability and many areas with limestone tend to have very high pH values.

As importantly, it is usually pretty difficult to regulate pH in a vivarium because it is driven by the substrate and its buffering capacity. If you have a lot of limestone or other carbonates in your viv, it is going to raise the pH no matter how many times you lower it with acid. It really just doesn't seem to be an important parameter for keeping pdf so no point in trying to control it.


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## Sokretys (Dec 16, 2007)

Reverse osmosis removes buffered from the water as well as other minerals, proteins etc. ive been doing reef tanks for years...and have never bother testing my RO water...i am kind of shocked to hear it is testing at 6.0. are you using Hagen style test strips? it also matter what time of time you are testing. pH goes up at night time...quite a bit in fact. id also check your alkalinity. with the right alkalinity your pH swing will be less extreame. id get some API drop tests. they arent the best on the market but the are wayyy better than any dip test out there.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The reason most RO waters have a lower pH is not due to dissolved ions getting past the membrane but because RO membranes do not change the dissolved gas content. As many water systems contain some level of CO2, when you remove the buffers you enable the CO2 to react with the water forming H2CO3 which is a weak acid and the resulting pH is in the ball part of what you would expect to see if a small amount of a weak acid was dissolved in the water. 

Ed


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

thanks for the info


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## brad0608 (Jun 5, 2012)

thanks for the info wish i could know what water color to look for, mine is a bit on the red side do to the wood.


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