# Bentonite clay



## iljjlm (Mar 5, 2006)

Where can I find this in a usable form? I have looked at the cat litters and they usually have some sort of odor additive. I would like a source that doesn't have this in it, even if it is OK. I don't want my vivs smelling like our cat litter boxes (the clean ones). Thanks.
Dave


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Look up Koi clays. These are bentonites that are cheap and can be shipped to you. 
I tried some of the clays but even the ones that were supposedly unscented often smelled of the scents. 

Ed


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

You can also try farm and ranch supply stores. The sell it for sealing water tanks. I buy mine at the local brick supply yard which sells it for creating fish ponds. I get it for about $3/ 50 lb. bag.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

This depends on the state laws... I can't get it from those places without a permit as its covered under the wastewater treatment regulations.

Ed


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## Matt Mirabello (Aug 29, 2004)

I got some kind of kitty litter type clay without additives from the grocery store. It was really cheap in a plastic sack type bag with a very plain label. It is labeled "Contents: absorbent clay granules"
http://www.frognet.org/gallery/mineralsoil/DSCN1126_Large

not sure if it is sodium or calcium bentonite. It does not swell when wet.


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## iljjlm (Mar 5, 2006)

Thanks for the replies. I think the pond or brick supply places should work here we have a lot of them around town. Will check tomarrow.
Dave


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Ed said:


> This depends on the state laws... I can't get it from those places without a permit as its covered under the wastewater treatment regulations.
> 
> Ed


Weird! One of the uses of bentonite is as a homoeopathic remedy to detoxify the body. I think that is plain nuts but people do actually eat the stuff. I suppose because this stuff is used to line sewage lagoons they decided they need to regulate ALL uses of it? Talk about an overreach of government authority!


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## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

That's NJ for ya mate :lol:


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

bbrock said:


> Ed said:
> 
> 
> > This depends on the state laws... I can't get it from those places without a permit as its covered under the wastewater treatment regulations.
> ...


I can mail order small amounts of it if I wanted to eat it but I can't get large quantities from manufacturers because they don't want me making my own sewage lagoon... 
In the state, I can get small quantities like 5 lbs or so but if I want get 30 lbs or so I have to but it from a repackager that sells it for Koi ponds shipped from out of state... 
It is weird but.. I don't make those rules... 

Ed


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

What's the situation in PA? I don't think the Lacey act applies to clay ;-)


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

I've called around to farm/ag supply places in my area and none of them stock it or seem to be able to get it (not to say they can't--it must be said that most of them don't have a clue what bentonite is when I inquire about it).

As far as 'pure' kitty litter, I suggest checking out your local Wal-Mart and looking for their brand of litter (used it in some planted aquariums at one point). Only ingredient listed should be clay of some sort.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

skylsdale--You might check with local well drillers? In Idaho they use Bentonite to line water wells.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

I have about 400lbs of Texas sodium bentonite I will sell you but you have to come pick it up.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

slaytonp said:


> skylsdale--You might check with local well drillers? In Idaho they use Bentonite to line water wells.


And they use it as a lubricant during the drilling operation of both water wells and oil and gas wells. Patty and I are lucky because most of the sodium bentonite comes from Wyoming and Montana and Wyo-Ben is headquartered in Billings, MT. So it is pretty easy to find in these parts.

As for kitty litter, only the clumping type of litter is bentonite. The other cheap kitty litter used in planted aquaria (and also makes a good pdf viv substrate) has entirely different properties from bentonite.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I have a lot of it if anyone wants it.

I've used it for a background(plants didn't really grow into it so I plan on scraping away most of it), and as a kind of caulking material around the edges of a false bottom. Also use it to hold a cork background together. Works great!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendrobait said:


> I have a lot of it if anyone wants it.
> 
> I've used it for a background(plants didn't really grow into it so I plan on scraping away most of it), and as a kind of caulking material around the edges of a false bottom. Also use it to hold a cork background together. Works great!


When mixed about 50/50 with peat plants grow just fine in it in my experience... 

Ed


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Ed said:


> When mixed about 50/50 with peat plants grow just fine in it in my experience...
> 
> Ed


And it remains tacky enough to use as background? I may have to try that.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Ed: What plants did you use? In my case I put down bentonite clay mixed with aquatic plant soil, then layered over with some coco-fiber. Begonia glabra did send its roots into the clay, but then what moist substrate won't a B. glabra send its roots into? Anyway, some Columnea and some Microgramma have performed far less impressively. The Columnea has most of its roots in the thin cocofiber layer over the bentonite.

Brent: I'd bet it would. I'm considering scrapping most of this background and using a thin layer of bentonite to attach bits of some kind of filter pads(or poor mans epiweb), coco fiber, and aquatic plant soil. I think with the bentonite it would hold together well.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It easily remains tacky enough to be used as a background even when used as a drip wall. 

I have had different ferns, various mosses, and neogelia bromeliads root into it. I haven't tried too much else into it yet. 

Ed


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

alright i've done several searches on here for clay backgrounds, bentonite clay, sodium bentonite, calcium bentonite, etc, and i have not been able to find something explaining a way that anyone has successfully used this material to make a background. the way i understand it is that kitty litter made of sodium bentonite can be mixed with peat/sphagnum moss and water to make a material that can be allowed to dry slightly and then molded/stuck to the glass of an aquarium. some posts have even mentioned this, once having stabilized some, being able to hold up as a waterfall or drip-wall. if anyone could point me to a build thread or an explanation i'd really appreciate it. it seems like a good idea, but i'm not sure i understand exactly how this is being used.

thanks
-will


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

It's sticky and holds it's shape, you just stick it on the background and you're done. It really is that simple.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Mix it and let is set and absorb water. Once it is the consistency of about spackle spread it on the background and let it set until it is stable. If you let it get too dry it will crack and at that point, it won't stay up if you run it as a drip wall, but to fix, it just remove and rewet and reapply. 

I have a cage with it as a background that has been set up for at least 6 years. you can see some pictures of the test run here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/33471-red-clay-substrate.html

Ed


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

wow ed that's some pretty serious fern growth. what kind of fern is that? also, does it seem like the water should be running constantly like it is with that drip-wall? or will daily misting and high humidity keep a background made like that moist enough not to crack? thanks for the help


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I didn't bother to identify them..other than the treefern that grew out of the osmunda.. 

If it is misted and kept moist it will be stable, it doesn't have to have water running down it like a drip wall (that is just how I set it up there). Right now I'm simulating a long drought on the tank and in the next few weeks will fire it back up and see how it handles it. That tank has been running several years now..

Ed


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

that's really cool ed, thanks for all the help you've given us on this


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I have to give the kudos to Ben Eiben who put me on this track years ago and Brent Brock, and Matt Mirabella who really helped me along this path.. I'm just sharing the information. 

Ed


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## gillenws (Jul 13, 2009)

ah i forgot earlier (sorry for so many questions)... did you use a 50:50 ratio of peat and clay? or did you just mix it until it held together? also, the ferns clearly liked that as a substrate, and you mentioned trying broms in it. did anything else grow in it, like creeping vines, etc?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

That was a 50/50 mix. You want to predampen the peat to some extent and then mix it as a slurry with a paint stiirring attachment on a big drill. Let sit for about 25-30 minutes to let fully hydrate and text the consistency. If it is too thin, you can pour it out into a stainer lined with paper (I use a ten or 20 gallon screen lid) and let some of the excess water drain until it is the consistency of joint compound or spackle. set the tank on its back if possible, apply clay mix and allow to set for 10 hours or so (if it dries out enough to crack start again). 

Ed


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