# Cricket Diet - Sustained Diet and Gutloading



## georgiekittie (Jan 27, 2009)

Ok. I have read all of the threads that I can find on this topic, and even though many people lament about going over and over this topic, I still have a few questions. I'm going to start with a base of what I "know" (what I have read) so that we don't have to repeat anything, and then I will go on with my questions. Please answer the questions, provide additional information, or correct any of my "knowledge" that you believe is incorrect.

My Purpose: I am going to use crickets as an alternate food source for 4-6 days. I think it would be beneficial to gut load them and am looking for more information.

My Knowledge: (simplified) Crickets can be fed two different types of diets which I'll call a "sustained diet", which is good for the cricket, and a "gut loading" diet, which is good for the frog. Sustained diets are aimed at prolonging the life and keeping healthy crickets. Healthy crickets will inevitable benefit the frogs. Gut loading is aimed at having food in the insect's digestive track that will then be consumed by the frogs at the benefit of the frogs. Gut loading should be done in 24-72 hours before feeding out the crickets for maximum benefit. Crickets will begin to die from a high level of calcium after 72 hours.
Gutloading Crickets
Dendrocare By Itself - 3rd page and beyond
Cricket Food

My Questions:
Several different diets were discussed on the forum. One common one was an organic chicken mash. It was my impression that this was an example of a "sustained diet" but it was ultimately unclear to me which type of diet this was. Can anyone clarify?

Spirulina and calcium were both commonly mentioned as elements of a gut loading diet. How should these foods be given to the crickets? Are they supplements or are there grocery store foods to feed them? Basically, what should I feed my crickets to gut load them (as per the earlier definition of gut loading)?

Ed- You had mentioned that you do not believe gut loading to affect calcium levels to be an effective way to get calcium to the frogs. What elements, vitamins or minerals would you suggest in gutloading? What foods or diets would achieve this?

Thanks so much!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

What animal species are you going to feed?


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## georgiekittie (Jan 27, 2009)

Two tincs. And I thought I was so thorough...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

georgiekittie said:


> My Questions:
> Several different diets were discussed on the forum. One common one was an organic chicken mash. It was my impression that this was an example of a "sustained diet" but it was ultimately unclear to me which type of diet this was. Can anyone clarify?!


It would be used as more of a sustained diet as it only contains 4% calcium (for layer mash). 



georgiekittie said:


> Spirulina and calcium were both commonly mentioned as elements of a gut loading diet. How should these foods be given to the crickets? Are they supplements or are there grocery store foods to feed them? Basically, what should I feed my crickets to gut load them (as per the earlier definition of gut loading)?


You can purchase high calcium gut loads for the crickets but be aware that you literally have to provide no other food items or use fruit for a source of water as the crickets will consume anything other than the high calcium diet. If you are trying to modify the calcium to phosphorus ratio, then you need to keep the crickets as close to 80 F as possible for a minumum of 48 hours before feeding out the crickets. Mortality of the crickets will start to significantly increase after 48 hours. 

Spirulina etc can be offered as part of a dry mix or on its own. Some insects do not tolerate high levels of it in the diet. 



georgiekittie said:


> Ed- You had mentioned that you do not believe gut loading to affect calcium levels to be an effective way to get calcium to the frogs. What elements, vitamins or minerals would you suggest in gutloading? What foods or diets would achieve this?
> 
> Thanks so much!


 Belief has nothing to do with it... there are a number of studies which I have cited before showing that unless all of the conditions are met, it doesn't work and when it does work, you start getting increased mortalities about the time it gets to the right levels. There are also a number of studies in the literature that show it is also only really effective in pinheads... 

Outside of that any decent ground mix that you choose. Depending on how diligent you are in keeping the crickets clean, you can use anything from dried fish foods to ground dried dog food with success. 

There is a lot of misinformation and voodoo beliefs out there on what is effective and "targeted" for certain species.... 

Ed


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## georgiekittie (Jan 27, 2009)

Thanks Ed!

I'm still confused about the effectiveness of gut loading. The idea of calcium in crickets is to get it into their digestive track and therefore into the frogs. Since it kills the crickets, the idea is to benefit the frogs through the cricket's digestive system, not through any alteration of the cricket itself.

Is the theory the same with the spirulina? Do the frogs receive the benefits because the nutrients are still in the digestive track of the crickets? Or do the crickets actually digest or metabolize the spirulina, making the crickets themselves more nutritious?

Also, are the beneficial effects of spirulina as difficult to achieve as the calcium?

Thanks for being so patient!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ed pretty much nailed it....

Messin' with crickets and gutloading for only 2 tincs?


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm not sure I'm even getting all of this and I read everything including the links 

I've always just provided the crickets with what they seem to prefer.

Pinheads seem to like...sweet potato, romain lettuce, and apple

1/4's seem to like the same as the pinheads

1/2 to adult then seem to gravitate more to the ground up cat food 38% protein.

I'm not sure why but that seems to be the way it works for me...


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Glenn,

Gutloading and crickets is serious stuff.....especially with the Aussie Gecko crowd.

There is quite a bit of info out there. It is....entailed.....to say the least.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Philsuma said:


> Glenn,
> 
> Gutloading and crickets is serious stuff.....especially with the Aussie Gecko crowd.
> 
> There is quite a bit of info out there. It is....entailed.....to say the least.


Ya 

I guess I can see that with reptiles. I figure if the crickets are healthy and they get their greens, fruit and protein they should be a good food item for frogs.

Thank God for supplements...


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## stingfrog (Apr 1, 2007)

I just feed mine carrots and a dry mash I make by grinding chicken starter, oatmeal and dry cat food. Just make absolutely sure that the chicken started is NON MEDICATED. Some has antibiotics added. The crickets get their moisture from the raw carrots and everything the crickets is also good for the frogs that way. Happy crickets = happy frogs.m Hee hee


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

georgiekittie said:


> Thanks Ed!
> 
> I'm still confused about the effectiveness of gut loading. The idea of calcium in crickets is to get it into their digestive track and therefore into the frogs. Since it kills the crickets, the idea is to benefit the frogs through the cricket's digestive system, not through any alteration of the cricket itself.
> 
> ...


I think Leaf Litter published a article on gut loading and supplements not too long ago... 

With respect to crickets and calcium (and no this doesn't work with fruit flies as they are very efficient at excreting the calcium), the idea is to get the crickets to ingest sufficient calcium to change the ratio of calcium to phosphorus in the total cricket as a improper ratio will result in disruption of calcium metabolism (however, without a sufficient source of D3, the frogs will still be unable to metabolize the calcium and this has been shown in the literature with other anurans). The time line is more to ensure that the frog has ingested sufficient calcium, however calcium is also a problem in excess (and has one of the narrowest safe ranges as part of the diet) and the amount needed to adjust the ratio of the cricket is in excess of what the cricket can take and survive long-term. If you are going to be feeding it out to the frogs four to five days a week, then you are probably going to need at least three containers of crickets to ensure the sufficient numbers in rotation and time to achieve the appropriate gut loading. 

Spirulina is a little different as some of the nutrients would be incorporated into the cricket such as protiens and fats. The recommendation is that the cricket be fed a diet for at least 48 hours as this allows for maximal replenishment of any nutrients lost in shipping (if you hatch your own, then this doesn't apply). 

There is some controversy as to how much the gut contents actually change the nutritional profile of the insect as some analysis on caterpillars did not see significant differences in caterpillars with the digestive tract in place and those in which it was removed.... 

Some of the other captive herps have a lot of voodoo around thier gut loading diets and how it has to be fed that are not supported by the hard analysis.. 



Ed


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