# Superblue F1 Understory enterprise



## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

Hello,

I have 2 superblues and they are still black in color. How do I get them to change their colors to blue and black? They are about a year old now.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

mmmmm, GOT ANY PICS? you can't get frogs to change their colors like you might think.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

I think this is likely an overexpression of melanin stimulating hormone. You can probably see underlying patterns if you look closely but your frogs are black, and will remain black.


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## Weston (Mar 21, 2015)

I don't know anything about the super blues, but if their color could change odds are it would come from reaching maturity, seasonal changes or breeding season, or another environmental factor. Like the others have said, you can't really trigger it happening.


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## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

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## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

Sorry crappy pics ill try to getvbetter ones but basically what i am asking is how long do these frogs take to mature lol


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Melanistic for sure. It likely won't get any more blue than it is now. 

John


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## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

How can you tell between melanistic and regular ones lol. And what happens if they breed? Will babies also be melanistic? 


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

How old are these frogs by the way, they don't appear to be fully matured?


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## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

Nonetheless cool frogs, I really like them.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I would consider auratus to be mature at a year or a little more. You can tell they're melanistic because they're black  It's an over expression of melanin in the frogs skin, which I believe to be a simple recessive trait. If you breed them together, you will likely end up with melanistic offspring (please don't). If you breed them with normal super blues, you'll get offspring that are normal looking, but carry the melanism gene. Or, I could be totally off too.


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## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

I shouldn't breed them? they are same from same line? They are a pair! lol what are my options as a responsible keeper?


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

The ideal situation would be to add them to a large group of super blues and allow them to select mates on their own. Since that probably is possible, the next best thing is to trade one of them for a random, normal frog. The hobby doesn't need more color mutation being bred. Of course, they are your frogs, and you should handle them however you see best. I certainly won't get my pitchfork out.


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## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

Ok i appreciate the input guys. I dont know what i will do yet or which route i will take. I will think about it. 


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Think of it as albinism but opposite. I would call these hypermelanistic because I think I can see blue poking through. If they had no black at all they would be amelanistic (albino), and if the black were reduced to a greyish color they'd be hypomelanistic. The nomenclature doesn't seem like it's established with frogs like it is in the snake hobby, which is a good thing. The types of melanism we see are often caused by a simple recessive gene, which if true, means that this pair would likely throw froglets just like themselves. I think if you bred them with a wild type you'd still get 50% hypermelanistic frogs, but I haven't thought about punnet squares for a while. If you're interested, google punnet square for more info.

Either way, they're neat frogs. If they were mine, and I only had room for a pair, I'd trade one for a super blue normal, or conversely you could contact understory. They might work with you because that pair is pretty atypical.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

The bump on the tailbone area looks unusual. Maybe its just the pics.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

Boondoggle said:


> The types of melanism we see are often caused by a simple recessive gene, which if true, means that this pair would likely throw froglets just like themselves.


Source? I'm just curious.


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## amandakathryn (Jan 1, 2014)

based on a quick search here it seems pretty clear to me that in auratus melanism is a simple recessive. its looks like in others its more complicated. so at least in auratus you need 2 copies of the melanistic gene to get a melanistic frog. It works like this
MM x MM = MM (all offspring standard color)
mm x mm=mm (all offspring melanistic)
MM x mm =Mm (all offspring standard)
MM x Mm=MM or Mm (all offspring standard)
Mm x Mm = MM or Mn or mm (most standard a few melanistic...should be about 1 in 4)
Mm x mm = Mn or mm (half standard and half melanistic)


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

easternversant said:


> Source? I'm just curious.


No source at all to be honest, so potentially spurious info there. I guess I'm applying personal experience from snakes and making some assumptions. In my experience (again, with snakes) it's super unusual to have a very distinctive off/on trait like this ride more than a single allele. I assume the parents were typical super-blues or Understory (probably) would have said something to the buyer. Getting a pair of siblings that express the trait from a normal pair just screams of single recessive gene. 

...but now that I type that out, that's a lot of assumptions. I do know that with snakes it was very unusual for any type of melanin related mutation to not be simple recessive. Honestly I can't think of one. I remember a couple co-dominant visual traits. I did get out before the bulk of the ball python explosion so my info could be outdated.

If it were me, I would just assume it's simple recessive until proven otherwise. A couple clutches could firm up that hunch. If they're able to throw any wild type superblues then my guess is wrong.*

*Unless they're both homozygous for all of the allele combinations that would cause excessive melanism. Headache...it's been too long since I thought about this stuff


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## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

Ok let me add more information. The father and mother were f1. Both were normal looking except the father which was unusually light greys and nice blues. Their mother i did not get a chance to look at because she died before transferring hands to me due to impaction. These babies are the only pair to make it from those parents before momma died of impaction. From my understanding though she was also normal looking. 


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## amandakathryn (Jan 1, 2014)

if both parents were normal colors then they were both hererozygous....carriers for melanism, so they could produce melanistic froglets. the froglets are melanistic so they are homozygous recessive for melanism. if the froglets are bed together all the froglets will be melanistic. if they are bred to a normal it will depend on if the normal is het for melanism. if it is they will produce melanistic and some normal colored froglets.


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## benjaminfrogs (Sep 26, 2014)

you guys may remember this picture. heres the father


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