# Viv smells bad help



## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

Right so I've added leaf litter from the local woods into my dart frogs and phelsuma vivs I washed it all in boiling water first. It now has started to smell really strong and not nice at all almost like damp washing that has been left for weeks how can I get rid of the smell without ripping the vivs apart to move leaf litter. It looks good and natural but I can't stand the smell. As it's making the house smell as well.


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## Schlepenslide (Feb 5, 2017)

Sorry this is happening to you! Sounds frustrating. 

Do you happen to have a drainage layer on your vivs? The smell (especially if it's sulphery/swampy) might be from the soil being too wet.


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

It's got clay balls as drainage yes live planted with spring tails and dwarf woodlice.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

Lozmick geckos said:


> It's got clay balls as drainage yes live planted with spring tails and dwarf woodlice.


More details please. What kind of substrate are you using? Are you using a substrate screen/separator? What type of leaves did you collect for leaf litter?


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

How sealed is the Viv? How often do you mist/water? Is there water in the drainage layer, and if so, how much? How heavily planted is the viv and what size soil layer, and type of soil, are you using?


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

My money is on anaerobiosis.

The smell likely has nothing to do with the fact that the leaves and wood are from outside, but more to do with compacting of organics in a wet environment. 

Like others have said; what type of substrate do you have? Is there an air pocket between the soil and water table? What type of leaves were they? How good is your ventilation?

I think many of us minimize our use of 'soil' in vivs to avoid such problems. A few pockets of ABG for specific plants with turface and leaf litter filling in the rest is my recipe for substrate success.


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)




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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

It does indeed have a screen to separate drainage from substrate which is a mix of organic soil and coconut husk/plantation soil. The leaf litter was mainly oak leaves with a few sycamore leaves in with them. The back two panels on the exo terra is left as the original mesh.


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

Hardly any water in the bottom of the clay balls and the substrate is still light and fluffy not compacted or soaking wet.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

From here, that looks like a lot of soil. And it looks like potting soil. 

Grab a handful and smell it. Is it repulsive? Then there's your problem.

ETA: There probably isn't any standing water in the clay balls because it has all wicked up into the dirt. After you've grabbed your handful for smelling, also squeeze it. Does water wring out of it? Replace it all with a coarser, "soil-less" mix.... like ABG. And it doesn't need to be that deep.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Lozmick geckos said:


> Hardly any water in the bottom of the clay balls and the substrate is still light and fluffy not compacted or soaking wet.


If you look at the right side of the cage, you can see substrate down into the water layer. While they aren't super efficient at it, the clay balls do wick water. If it smells that bad you have water logged substrate somewhere in the cage unless you have a lot of decomposing insects in it. 

some comments 

Ed


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

I agree, its likely the soil becoming nasty. Especially if there's a lot Coco fiber/"plantation soil" in it, that stuff will hold moisture big time.


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

You are correct it's the substrate it smells strong and water came out when I squeeze it. The problem is I'm in the uk so never seen abg for sale


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Lozmick geckos said:


> You are correct it's the substrate it smells strong and water came out when I squeeze it. The problem is I'm in the uk so never seen abg for sale


You don't have to go with the ABG, the problem is that you need to make sure that the substrate doesn't get into the substrate layer, that there is sufficient air gap between the bottom of the substrate and the top of the water level and that you have someway to remove water. 

Your layer where the water is supposed to end up is way too shallow and not sealed away from the substrate layer sufficiently. This isn't something your going to be able to correct easily without a tear down of the tank as your going to need to clean the substrate out of the clay balls and adjust the barrier used to separate the substrate from the clay balls. That is going to need to be setup so the substrate cannot get under it ... consider using a light diffuser aka egg crating to help make it more stable as well as helping to an air gap between the top of the clay balls and the substrate. The easiest way to do this is silicone it to the sides of the tank as that keeps the barrier in place while keeping the substrate out. A lot of people don't like how that appears so you can cover it with some contact paper. 

You can always pick up some infield conditioner to place ontop of the substrate barrier and then use a shallow layer of what ever substrate you want on top of it was that will provide enough drainage that the plants should be fine as well as getting away from too much organic substrates. On a side note, that bromeliad really isn't going to appreciate a soggy substrate. You should pull it if you don't want it to rot. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

I actually think you have too small a drainage layer and too little soil that is soaking up all the water. If ABG mix isn't available, I would go for some orchid mix. It's usually big chunks, but a little work with a hammer and some added sphagnum moss will do just fine. I'm using just that in my crested gecko grow out viv.


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

I've used a screen to separate the clay balls from substrate using black sheeting that people use in the garden before laying woodchip or stones to stop weeds coming threw. 

What substrate do you recommend and how deep should it be?


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

I've used that stuff before, but I didn't have much success with it. I poked a bunch of holes in mine with a size #3 insect pin to get it to sort of work, but a fine mesh works best since it allows the least resistance to osmosis and permits springtails to pass through it with ease. A good drainage layer should be about 2-3 inches ideally. I think most people keep their substrate layers thin at about .25 to .5 inches, but some plants are going to require a much deeper substrate. I use ABG mix, but if you can't find it I like to mash up orchid mix and add sphagnum moss to get a reasonable substitute. I like a light leaf litter of about 0-.5 inches variable around the tank, but I've heard of some folks using as much as two inches in some tanks.


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## Tay0001 (Jun 14, 2017)

The diagnosis of everyone else is probably your best bet. You could try, as a short term fix, using activated carbon/charcoal. Crushed to the size of peas(ish) will help improve aeration in the soil and absorb some of the compounds making the smells. However this will only help for a little while as the carbon will 'fill up' with the smells and other compunds. 

If the problem is too much water retention in your substrate the improved aeration and drainage from the added carbon may be enough. But, if there if the water level is above your clay drainage layer, ie. your substrate is sitting in water, you will need to take things out and make a deeper drainage layer to really make a difference long term.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Lozmick geckos said:


> I've used a screen to separate the clay balls from substrate using black sheeting that people use in the garden before laying woodchip or stones to stop weeds coming threw.
> 
> What substrate do you recommend and how deep should it be?


You need a deeper drainage layer, look at the one side of the cage, your substrate dips down below where the clay ball layer level is elsewhere in the cage. That is a recipe for water logged substrates. You need greater separation from water is going to collect. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

I've stripped down one viv that contains my Epipedobates anthonyi and replaced the drainage layer substrate and leaf litter. I will try and do my leucs tonight maybe tomorrow. The clay balls were dry and they was pockets of water on the substrate screen so the water couldn't drain properly. Hopefully now the problem has been sorted thanks for comments.


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

Changed both vivs that were smelly now replaced the substrate with a mix of orchid bark, moss, charcoal small pebbles leaf litter and peat. The screen has been changed to a more suitable one recommended by my local shop so fingers crossed I can sit back and relax watching them problem free.


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

The screen and substrate weren't the main problem. Your drainage layer is too shallow. I would recommend 2" for your drainage layer. Anyway I hope all is well now.


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## Lozmick geckos (Jul 7, 2017)

The drainage layer is 2". The clay balls were dry when I changed everything out hence the screen was not doing its job it was retaining the water.


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