# Small green caterpillar



## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

Can anyone ID what kind of caterpillar this is? For size reference there's fishing line as well as sphaghum in the video for comparison.


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

That doesn't seem to be a caterpillar - it looks like a fly larva such as a soldier fly.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

I agree with kimcmich, the apparent lack of legs suggests this isn't a caterpillar and it looks a lot like some sort of fly larva. Pretty small if that's fishing line? 
What's the story here, where did you find it?
Stuff like this gets me, and I just have to know, _please_ let it pupate and tell us what it turns into.


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## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

Hmm, the back end does look more soldier fly and the lack of legs does look more like soldier fly now that you guys mentioned it. As for where it came from, that's a great question since I just planted the tank from a few different sources. 

Source 1: Moss from friend's waterfall. The moss was scraped from his rocks from the waterfall going to his pond. Plenty of flow with the water circulating through his giant UV.

Source 2: Moss and liverwort from the creek trail about a mile away from where I live. 

Source 3: Sphaghum and roots from a mini orchid (Bulbophyllum) from a member here on the board. This was where I found the one in the video. I noticed something moving in the sphaghum during one of the irrigation runs (once an hour for a minute) and pulled it out for the video. It is indeed pretty small. That's fishing line in the frame that was used to tie the orchid down and those other bits in the video are bits of sphaghum moss. 

I didn't bleach the moss and liverwort since it would have most likely nuke the moss/liverwort from what I gathered in my research. I did a visual inspection after rinsing in RODI water. Also, plan is to plant the tank and then successively co2 bomb it prior to adding the frogs. 

I've since seen and pulled out a couple of them in the last few days as I've been home sick. They're always found on the glass wall on the right side where the water droplets are from the misters. I'm not sure if they're crawling out onto the glass due to the misting/irrigation cycle or not.

As to figuring out what it is, is it best to pupate it out? Also, how would I go about doing so?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I sent a pm to Entomologist210 asking him to stop by and help out. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

That's awesome. Thanks Ed!

Took some macro shots awhile ago after finding another. Hopefully this will help somewhat.

Kind of blurry, but the entire pupa.









Front to back end.









Back end, with the hooks/hairs.









Sitting on the moss. End of a 0.5mm pencil for scale.









After being place on the moss, it seems to be mouthing/eating it.


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

It definitely looks like a Stratiomyid larva to me. Basal segments without prolegs, terminal prolegs absent and a broader body than the head. Plus a lot of them have those setae/gills popping out at the end. You probably picked it up at the pond since most of the aquatic and semi-aquatic larvae hang out in the vegetation along the margins.


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## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

Entomologist210 said:


> It definitely looks like a Stratiomyid larva to me. Basal segments without prolegs, terminal prolegs absent and a broader body than the head. Plus a lot of them have those setae/gills popping out at the end. You probably picked it up at the pond since most of the aquatic and semi-aquatic larvae hang out in the vegetation along the margins.


Thanks for the ID!

The moss that's growing on the back wall did come from a friend's waterfall area of his pond (growing on the rocks). 

Is there any danger to them in the viv, which is currently not housing any darts? There are springtails and the plants (orchids, mosses, and liverwort) in there. Is it worth it to co2 bomb the viv successively prior to the introduction of the inhabitants? Lastly, what's the best way to pupate the larva out for a better ID?


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

Nope, no real danger that I can think of.


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## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

Found a fly in the viv yesterday that I've never seen before. Not your typical house fly at a fraction the size. Possibly the fly form of the larva? Approximately 0.6cm tip to tip.


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## Biome (Jun 6, 2016)

These are some really nice macro shots. What lens do you use?


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## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

Thanks for the compliments.

Pics were shot with the Nikon 60mm f/2.8 macro lens with the Raynox DCR-250 attached to the front. Could have been sharper and cleaner if I had used a tripod, but just winged it. Shot handheld with natural light from the viv.


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

Very nice shots. Based on venation, it looks to be a Stratiomyid fly.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

They are amazing shots, entomologist210 can you tell me what those green globes on the stalks between it's abdomen and thorax are?


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

@Louis,

Those green nubbins (one beneath each wing) are mechano-sensory organs called halteres. These are used to sense rotational changes that provide feedback to the flight control muscles. They basically help the fly stabilize itself during flight and flight maneuvers.

Halteres are actually modified wings. The rear pair of wings you see in 4-winged insects like dragonflies have become halteres in the more-derived 2-winged insects.


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## Entomologist210 (Apr 24, 2014)

"Nubbins", I like that word and I'm going to start using it more in conversation. Yup, flies belong to the order "Diptera". "Di" meaning two, and "ptera" meaning wing. The nubbins, correctly identified as halteres, are modified hind wings. They spin around like a gyroscope so the fly can stabilize itself in flight.


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## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

This has been a very educational thread. Thanks to everyone for chiming in!


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Always good to learn something new and I had no idea some flies had bright green nubbins.
I'm rooting for you to try culuring these flies Ibn.
If they're related to black soldier flies they might be quite prolific, imagine if you could culture proper mini dart frog sized calci-worms.


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## Ibn (Aug 3, 2016)

Any idea of how to set up a culture? I've never dealt with culturing anything with wings on them before.


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