# African Dwarf Frog with Milky eyes



## Gary's Mom (Jun 29, 2021)

Hi I just recently did an overhaul on my aquarium adding some real plants and changed up the substrate adding to the tank Fluval Stratum which is known to lower PH and recently or shortly after I did this my PH dropped from 7.6 stable to 6.6 stable in the tank. What is most upsetting is I noticed shortly after this my African Dwarf Frog Gary, his eyes are white like milk! I was recommended to use Melafix by the Local Pet store because they thought he might have Popeye in both eyes due to the stress of the change and I have been treating in tank since last friday and even though he is definitely more active and eating great his eyes really havent clear up so I dont know where to go from here any recommendations on how to clear it up?b


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Welcome to DB. I'm sorry about your frog. You'll likely get some input here, but an aquarium forum is certain to have many more people experienced in treating aquatics.


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## Gary's Mom (Jun 29, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Welcome to DB. I'm sorry about your frog. You'll likely get some input here, but an aquarium forum is certain to have many more people experienced in treating aquatics.


That's the avenue I started with but Im not getting much response at this point and Im worried about my little guy thank you and hopefully I can get some more advice


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

It may be worth exploring this thread:

Cloudy eyes

I imagine most Dwarf frogs get little to no supplements. They seem to be treated as the disposable frog in this hobby.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

It is quiet time of the year for pet forums, which may be part of the response issue. There are decades of info archived on aquarium forums, and _in this case_ I think you can assume that info for fish is accurate for your frog, so simply reading past discussions should be very useful.

FWIW, going forward, I'd strongly recommend against ADFs -- many/most are wild collected (though captive bred are available, it is unlikely that most pet stores will be accurately representing this), and not very hardy, in part because of being wild collected and in part because of their mistreatment through the retail supply chain. 

Personally, I treat apparent infections with a modern antibiotic -- tetracycline/doxycycline/minocycline would be my first choice in this case, but I go years without having to treat my aquatics for anything so I'm a bit out of the loop on this.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

That is a very severe looking opacity. 

Most of the strongest data about lens and corneal opacities in truly aquatic frogs are xenopus oriented because of their role in scientific research. There may be useful parallels of relevance due to similarly imposed influences.

These little scuba guys actually do not do as well in a community tank with other fishes as they are sold for.

They cannot compete with fishes for food and are relegated to eating fall out that, again, are more effectively wisked away by corys and other assertive scavengers. These frogs in community tanks often become very thin. 

They also do better with a stronger variety of diet. Blood worms, specialty sinking sm pellets. I have also seen them take drowned pins. If you give them frozen whole foods flush through a fine strainer like a tea ball or brine net to clear it of extra salt and suspended muck. 

I think he will still eat if given good, bottom located food in dense little piles.

If you could separate him in his own bare bottomed tank, with the mind that if he lives, the tank will be his new environment (if now living w fishes) that would be a good choice. They can live over a decade.

If you make a Qtank for him use at least a 2 gallon water value. This is compatible with treatment dosages and better than a mere gal. 

A betta heater or small watt 15 submersible is critical. Im going to say 78 because of wideslread cannon but i prefer warmer option and this can be achieved easier in a 5 gal. 25 watt submrs good. There are actually some really cool little heaters out right now aimed at betta keeping you may want to check out.

The bare bottom is for hygiene (turkey baster) during this time. Because of it dark caves of inert aquaria safe materials need to be applied for security. Dark paper shadowing one side is good.

I would keep it simple and just grab a case of evian water. That way all the water in res is same character, for careful replacement changes which is best done with a hand bulb siphon..or if you are kinda new but patient a length of airline tubing. You take from the bottom and you dont want to pull in the frog or foot.

Anyway thats what I would suggest as the env approach for your frog no matter what the cause is.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Yes it can be a plastic tank.
Extra Lrg Kritter keeper.

You could use a smaller one, but in all fact and feature there is more wiggle room in chemical waste build up and water stability generally in a more generous choice.

Plus if the outcome is positive you can elaborate on a nice private estate with plants and hidey holes. 

A articulated little mild dayhours wattage aimed to one side can support some low level light plants.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

> FWIW, going forward, I'd strongly recommend against ADFs -- many/most are wild collected (though captive bred are available, it is unlikely that most pet stores will be accurately representing this), and not very hardy, in part because of being wild collected and in part because of their mistreatment through the retail supply chain.


I don't believe that is true. All, if not most, H. boettgeri, are captive bred. When I kept them, breeding was a common occurrence but I never attempted to raise the tadpoles. There are also blonde / albino African dwarf frogs being bred now as well.

African dwarf frogs in my experience are not difficult as long as the water quality is kept under control, and you feed them an appropriate diet. Do not feed them exclusively bloodworms, as that can lead to bloat later on. If you can get them to eat a dry / pellet food that contains the proper vitamins they are fairly resilient. I fed mine a diet of sinking Xenopus food and they did very well on that. I did lose a male to poor water quality and the two remaining ones after a couple years I gave away to someone.

I actually had issues with dwarf frogs and xenopus with a barebottom tank, because I think that prevents a lot of colonization of beneficial bacteria that prevent the water from becoming milky. I used to keep my dwarf frogs with gravel and never had issues, but once I kept them in a barebottom tank did the water stay permanently cloudy, my male died, and also the other two issues. So, i would use a shallow clay saucer instead and put food on it. When I had that setup they did the best


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Thats beautiful Rainfrog. 

A bare bottomed tank may have benefit in Q but its way too blank of forage joy for these exuberant little peeps. 

Splendid.


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## Lovelyk (Feb 7, 2021)

Rain_Frog said:


> I don't believe that is true. All, if not most, H. boettgeri, are captive bred. When I kept them, breeding was a common occurrence but I never attempted to raise the tadpoles. There are also blonde / albino African dwarf frogs being bred now as well.
> 
> African dwarf frogs in my experience are not difficult as long as the water quality is kept under control, and you feed them an appropriate diet. Do not feed them exclusively bloodworms, as that can lead to bloat later on. If you can get them to eat a dry / pellet food that contains the proper vitamins they are fairly resilient. I fed mine a diet of sinking Xenopus food and they did very well on that. I did lose a male to poor water quality and the two remaining ones after a couple years I gave away to someone.
> 
> I actually had issues with dwarf frogs and xenopus with a barebottom tank, because I think that prevents a lot of colonization of beneficial bacteria that prevent the water from becoming milky. I used to keep my dwarf frogs with gravel and never had issues, but once I kept them in a barebottom tank did the water stay permanently cloudy, my male died, and also the other two issues. So, i would use a shallow clay saucer instead and put food on it. When I had that setup they did the best


If you don’t mind me asking, where is it that you’ve found these ethically bred ADFs? (I can message you about this, if you prefer). I’ve had the hardest time finding the, anywhere but the sketch big box store type places these days, like Petsmart.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Rain_Frog said:


> I don't believe that is true. All, if not most, H. boettgeri, are captive bred. When I kept them, breeding was a common occurrence but I never attempted to raise the tadpoles. There are also blonde / albino African dwarf frogs being bred now as well.


Thanks for the correction -- this situation has changed (for the better) in the last decade or so, it seems. I couldn't find any detailed info on a quick web search, but one larger wholesaler (whoever Live Aquaria uses these days) is bringing in farm-raised frogs from Hong Kong, and a popular online retailer (The Wet Spot) is selling 'tank raised' specimens (though they don't distinguish between USCB and farmed overseas).


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## Gary's Mom (Jun 29, 2021)

Lovelyk said:


> If you don’t mind me asking, where is it that you’ve found these ethically bred ADFs? (I can message you about this, if you prefer). I’ve had the hardest time finding the, anywhere but the sketch big box store type places these days, like Petsmart.


I purchased mine at a LFS in my area....He's an exuberant little one LOL travels around and if the other fish get a bit rowdy he has no issues sticking up for himself LOL I will try the shallow bowl for feedings I find I drop pellets and they could be right in front of his face and he will crawl right over them LOL I understand they are partially or mostly blind and go by scent maybe I can be corrected on this if it was miss information but maybe feeding him from one area would help with is feedings for sure
I could bury it in my substrate so its a bit easier for him to crawl into thanks for that idea!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I understand that it may look like he is sticking up for himself, but the truth is the little frog would live a less stressful life physically and psychologically away from fishes which are predators to them. They are only sold to be put into community tanks because that is how they sell. Its a novelty addition. 

I hope you will consider it.


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