# Do Hobbyists Hinder Conservation? A Herpetologist's Opinion - What do You Think?



## findi (Jun 4, 2010)

Hi, Frank Indiviglio here. I’m a herpetologist, zoologist and book author, recently retired from a career spent at several zoos, aquarium, and museums, including over 20 years with the Bronx Zoo. 
While over-collection and poorly-prepared pet keepers have certainly led to declines in wild populations of some species, private hobbyists have also contributed immensely to the conservation of amphibians, invertebrates and reptiles (as well as fishes, birds and mammals). This is especially true of those animals which zoos lack the interest or space to maintain…often the very creatures most favored by private keepers. Read the rest of this article here Reptile Hobbyists - Helping or Hindering Reptile and Amphibian Conservation? 
Please also check out my posts on Twitter http://bitly.com/JP27Nj and Facebook http://on.fb.me/KckP1m

My Bio, with photos of animals I’ve been lucky enough to work with: That Pet Place welcomes Zoologist/Herpetologist Frank Indiviglio to That Reptile Blog | That Reptile Blog

Best Regards, Frank Indiviglio


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## Noel Calvert (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello Frank:
I have a serious interest in helping with the conservation efforts of these animals.Let me know what you think as a professional of my idea/plans for the near future.


Noel Calvert of GueCal Vivero Colombiano S.A.S.

I am very interested in this discussion with one very important difference. I live in South West Colombia. I am currently in the process of purchasing land to create a privately owned Botanical Garden & natural reservation. On these pieces of land I would very much like to address the issues that are being spoken about here regarding conservation of these frogs & possibly other amphibian types.

Here is how I think my location, interests, & land could benefit this discussion as well as actually be an affective way of repairing the problem in real time instead of some imaginary predesignate future when something may or may not pass.

1: Through groups like this, I interact with hobbyists interested in this conservation effort.
2: I request frog donations in the form of specific species as land becomes suitable to introduce them.
3: I pay shipping, or ideally come retrieve the frogs personally.
I slowly reintroduce these frogs into the land without interfering at all with their future survival beyond providing suitable natural habitat.
4: Observation of the various populations for 3 to 5 years.
5: At the end of the 3-5 year time span , retrieval of many of the frogs for transport & reintroduction into their specific natural habitats.

Important things to note about this would be:
1: The frogs need to have been observed exhibiting natural behavior such as parental chores if the species is known to do that.
2: Only natural phenotypes...
no morphs as those do not appear in the wild (I think), & therefore would not meet the needs for conservation of the actual species.
3: Quarantine & treatment of frogs before introduction into the program will be required to prevent introduction of captive born disease.
4: Extreme care needs to be taken packing the frogs for shipping as this would be a conservation effort, and we do not want dead frogs from shipping rather than natural selection processes during the population growth stage.
5: Complete as possible genealogy of said frogs to try to avoid siblings being consigned for this effort.
6: If you have a positive comment to help with this effort or to facilitate its success, then please comment about it... However if the comment is simply how this would never work for whatever reason, please keep that to yourself... This is about solutions, not pessimism.
7: I am personally in negotiations with the environmental protection agency here, so this effort would be manageable through them.


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## findi (Jun 4, 2010)

Hello Noel,

Interesting idea...here in the US, government approval participation etc is an important consideration; I imagine a similar situation would exist in Columbia...

It would be important to have a backround research as to what species are or were found at nearby sites, as general range information can be misleading.

You might consider enlisting the help of local students and/or herpetologists in follow-up studies; adhering to established monitoring techniques would enable your work to be published, perhaps pave the way for more interest, grants etc.

I've worked in South America, although not Columbia...have some contacts scattered a\bout; field researchers tend to move around often, but let me know if you want me to search for any useful contacts in the future.

Not directly on point, but Wikiri has an interesting take on frog conservation: Pet Trade Frogs Fund Conservation - Wikiri’s Unique Strategy

Best regards, Frank


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## Noel Calvert (Jan 8, 2013)

Hello Frank:
Thanks for responding. I am very much interested in any & all contacts that would be interested in an effort such as this, or even contacts already involved in efforts underway. I am perfectly happy helping current efforts if they are viable.

I have received quite a bit of comments around this subject on a string I created to discuss this proposed effort. It seems there is a lot of opposition/apprehension theoretically anyways in the implementation of this effort. The hobbyists here bring up some very valid questions that I am sure need to be researched as well as have been researched. you can find the discussion at:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/science-conservation/158650-non-captive-breeding-program.html


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## Echothedolphin (Nov 28, 2013)

Hello Frank!

First off thank you for posting your point of view and the link to your article. I am very interested in the topic of how us as hobbyists can help conservation and I am trying to broaden my understanding of what I can do personally as an animal keeper.

I've been keeping CB reptiles and amphibians for a while now and I am looking to start a new project with a new species. However I don't just want to work with a new species for the fun and "coolness" of it, my aim is to work with a species that needs attention right now, a species where my efforts will be toward keeping them alive and breeding them for conservation and educational purposes. I am a nature photographer by trade and part of my idea for the project would be to document the animals I work with extensively both to provide a record but also to educate others and bring attention to that species. I am also thinking of selling photo prints from that work and donating some of the money to conservation areas for that species in particular. That way people can come see the animals, buy prints and feel that they are contributing to helping that species themselves.

My thoughts are to choose a species that needs help in the wild but is also available to hobbyists. I live in Ontario, Canada and I will probably be contacting Understory Enterprises to help choose a species to focus on, (looking to focus on a tropical frog species) but I am just wondering, do you have any suggestions? Either on species or on ideas for this kind of project in general? Do you think this kind of project could help, or instead how would you suggest a hobbyist focus their efforts to be the most conservation minded?

Also any other users who have ideas please let me know your thoughts ...

Thanks!


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## Luke-O-Melas (Dec 20, 2014)

Good evening EchoTheDolphin!

I am in Ontario as well and deal quite a bit with Mark and Elaine from Understory Enterprises.

Just curious to know what species you have considered working with? Maybe we can focus on the same frog or divide our resources. 

On the non-dart frog front, I am desperately trying to acquire Hyla marmorata and am looking into Hylomantis lemur as well.

Thanks,
Shawn


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## findi (Jun 4, 2010)

Echothedolphin said:


> Hello Frank!
> 
> First off thank you for posting your point of view and the link to your article. I am very interested in the topic of how us as hobbyists can help conservation and I am trying to broaden my understanding of what I can do personally as an animal keeper.
> 
> ...


Hello,

Thanks for your interest. Aligning yourself with a known, well-funded group is, I think, the most impt first step; so many species need help, but it may be difficult to make a difference on your own. Not always...I know folks who have broken new ground by discovering a widely-applicable breeding technique, and other (very wealthy) people who can just go out, pick an animal, and offer significant help. But for most of us, the finances and expertise of an established group is the way to go. Contacting Amphibian Ark  would, I believe, be worthwhile. Enjoy and Please keep me posted, frank


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## Echothedolphin (Nov 28, 2013)

findi said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks for your interest. Aligning yourself with a known, well-funded group is, I think, the most impt first step; so many species need help, but it may be difficult to make a difference on your own. Not always...I know folks who have broken new ground by discovering a widely-applicable breeding technique, and other (very wealthy) people who can just go out, pick an animal, and offer significant help. But for most of us, the finances and expertise of an established group is the way to go. Contacting Amphibian Ark  would, I believe, be worthwhile. Enjoy and Please keep me posted, frank


Thanks for your response Frank. I will definitely try to align myself with organizations, I will reach out to Amphibian Ark. I'll keep you posted ...


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## Echothedolphin (Nov 28, 2013)

Luke-O-Melas said:


> Good evening EchoTheDolphin!
> 
> I am in Ontario as well and deal quite a bit with Mark and Elaine from Understory Enterprises.
> 
> ...


Hey Luke-O-Melas,

I too deal with Elaine and Mark from time to time, I have received several species through them. They are wonderful. 

At one point I was looking into Hylomantis lemur myself, but alas I don't have any. I'll keep my eye out for Hyla marmorata.

I roughly was thinking about trying to work with Cruziohyla calcarifer or Agalychnis spurelli or glass frogs, species I know Mark works with or has access to. But I am open to ideas. My idea is to use one of the large extra tall exo terras (36"x18"x36") to create a really great display and breeding ground for a species possibly including a shallow pool for laying eggs on floating plants. Hopefully it would be a species that could work well in a larger group or harem, using all the space. I believe the species I mentioned are nocturnal, but honestly I'd love a diurnal species to work with. I know I could do a specific dart frog but I am more interested in tree frogs these days, and I think some of the rarer tree frog species could benefit from some extra exposure. Let me know if you have any ideas. My main requirement is that it is a species that we can get CB and hopefully one that needs some help in the wild. I would document my care of them, breeding etc., create a blog, youtube videos and sell my photographs to raise money for the species as well. Trying to combine my photography and media skills with my frog keeping skills to create a unique project. (I am content as a keeper of pets, but I feel like my skills as a frog keeper could go further and help people understand and appreciate a species and try to raise money for them in the wild)

So I guess you too are thinking of starting a new project? Of course it would be interesting to both be working on one species especially if it is a rarer one and share tips.

And since you are in Toronto, by chance are you looking for any more darts? I am looking to re home a trio of powder blue tincs and mayyybe my 2 yellow P. terribilis ... anyways, let me know if you are interested. I also have a spare tank.

Good to be in contact with a fellow Ontario frogger


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