# Quing breeding - Update 07/09/06



## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I was just taking a look at our quing viv this evening and caught a glimpse of white in a black film cannister. Well needless to say, closer examination revealed 3 developing tads!










As if that wasn't good enough, a quick seach of the other film cannisters found another 4 tads much further advanced as shown below....










We've had the quings (4 of them from Phil Tan, the F2 German line) since last September and I wasn't really expecting much given that my understanding is that they are not that easy to get breeding. So tonight's discovery was both unexpected and a great delight.

Bill


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Very very cool.. Im hoping to track some done this year.

Congrats!


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## jsagcincy (May 2, 2005)

That's awesome Bill. They look great.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2006)

That's got to be a Great surprise. Congrats!!!  

I'm so looking forward to all of my developing frogs to get there new found habit of calling answered. :wink:


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Thanks guys. Phil is the man when it comes to thumbs....not to slight others of course but I've had excellent luck with his frogs.

<<< does cyberspace backflip :wink: 

Bill


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Awesome! What angles are the film canisters? What colors (the ones the layed in)? How old are they? Tank pics? If you have any other details let me know, i'd like some tips on breeding them! CONGRATS BILL!!!!

 

Jordan


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I do believe at least one of the film canisters they laid in was black


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

Quins are my favorite!! Please keep the pictures coming as they develop. I would also like to know everything about your tank. What you feed? Misting? How often of both? Anything you care to post.


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2006)

forgive me for that stupid question ... but are *quings* ... D. quinquevittatus?


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Okay, in the first pic, is that a melanogaster or a hydei? If thats a melano, those eggs/tads are tiny!!! :shock:


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

frogtofall, I was thinking the exact same thing! Super tiny


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## Guest (Apr 10, 2006)

The eggs are way tinier than the dimple in the bottom of the canister! :shock:


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Yea, and that looks like a melanogaster.

Bill,

Did you do anything different, recently, which might have gotten them going?


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## zaroba (Apr 8, 2006)

congrats on the eggs.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

sardaukar said:


> forgive me for that stupid question ... but are *quings* ... D. quinquevittatus?


Yes quinquevittatus.



Frogtofall said:


> Okay, in the first pic, is that a melanogaster or a hydei? If thats a melano, those eggs/tads are tiny!!! :shock:


Melanogaster and the eggs/tads are small compared to terrestial frogs but fairly average for thumbs in my experience.



Jordan B said:


> Awesome! What angles are the film canisters? What colors (the ones the layed in)? How old are they? Tank pics? If you have any other details let me know, i'd like some tips on breeding them! CONGRATS BILL!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan


To follow up on your questions and a few others, here are some basic details. The 4 quings are housed in a 37 gallon high shown below. This photo from tonight. Not extensively planted but has some nice leaf litter on the floor of the viv (looks like I need to add a few leaves though  ). There is plenty of elbow room for them and I rarely see any of them hanging out together. 










Film cannisters are oriented horizontally with no water. I have a few other configurations in there such as vertical but they appear to have ignored those in favor of the horizontal. Both sets of good eggs were found in black cannisters but I found some old moldy eggs in a white one.

The frogs are about 10-11 months old and are fed daily with dusted flightless melanogaster (1:1 RepCal:Herptivite). Sometimes I'll use wingless FFs instead of flightless. I dust their flies once a week with paprika in addition to their calcium/vitamin dust (I'm trying an experiment to see about keeping the leg color more red). 

The tank was also heavily seeded with springtails prior to occupation and I suspect some microfauna still exists because the quings are oftentimes on the floor of the viv picking at things I can't see.

I hand mist their viv every other day. 

I can't say I've done anything different lately except perhaps ignore whether they are breeding. The film cannisters were put in there in case they started up plus some frogs like to use them as hiding places. We have seen some pretty big storm systems rolling through this area the past several weeks including some pretty wild swings in barometric pressure (read tornado time) so perhaps that plus their age did the trick.

I haven't heard any calling for certain but given that their nearest neighbors including vittatus and salvias tricolors, I'm not certain I would hear them with those frogs blasting away.

Bill


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Got any pics of mom and dad??


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Do you know what your sex ratio is?

--Diane


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

A few older pics of the quings per your request Frogtofall.



















Diane...I do not know the sex ratio. Quings seem to be a bit harder to sex than other thumbs that I'm familiar with though obviously I'm clued in that there is at least one male and one female 8) 

Bill


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2006)

Bill, how hard is it to differenciate the female from the male?


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Thanks for the info Bill!  Now I can't wait for mine to start breeding...grrr.

About sexing them, i have been told that they are sexually dimorphic and males appear to be leaner and more streamlined. Supposedly you can tell pretty easy but I haven't been able to yet.


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2006)

I dont know if that peprika comment was a joke or not but if you are looking for a colorant check out http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fus ... 8/cid/1507

It will definately bring out the red in anything. I bet if you snuck it into someones food long enough they would begin turning red.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Actually, no joke about using paprika....here's a thread discussing its use....

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10586

I do use astaxanthin containing materials as a supplementation for tadpoles.

Bill


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Update on things as of April 25th. The first set of tads hatched and seem to be doing pretty well....photo of one of them shown below with a dime as reference










The eggs that were shown earlier in the post as the three newly developing eggs in the black film cannister are very close to hatching










and a set of three new eggs laid April 20th are starting to develop nicely....










Keeping my fingers crossed but so far so good.

Bill


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Oooh jealousy is a b$^ch . Congrats Bill, that is really awesome. Feel like doing a tad journal lol? I should be picking up the possible female tonight, so hopefully my lonely boy/boys will have a girl. 

Jordan


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Wow, great progress! Nice pics! I sure hope these guys become more readily available soon.

--Diane


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Jordan

Good luck with finding a lady for your fellows. I probably will do a tadpole journal but am hoping it doesn't jinx me like the last time :? 

Diane

These characters don't seem like the most prolific breeders and that might be one reason for their limited availability to date. Breeders in the NW seem to be having luck with them and perhaps a few others among us can help add a few more frogs to the pool.

Bill


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

I got "her" yesterday: it certainly looks like a girl judging by the shape of my male frogs. Good luck with the tads!

Jordan


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Finally caught the quings in 'the act' so to speak today. I had to watch carefully so as to not to disturb them but it was pretty interesting to watch how the male and female interacted.

Bill


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Cool Bill! What did they do?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Jordan,

It seemed pretty standard for thumbnail behavior from what I could see...the male was perched on top of a film cannister and obviously was encouraging the female to join him. What was confusing is that he kept switching from the black to white cannister that are placed close to one another and she sort of acted interested but then didn't. Also she went down into a nearby cannister that is filled with water for them to deposit tads for a little bit (I don't think there is a tad there but I suppose I need to double check. Ultimately they ended up in the black cannister and did their thing. 

At least now I've IDed the female 

Bill


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## Guest (May 3, 2006)

how agressive are the Quinqs toward each other? do you see a lot of fighting?
do they spend more time on the ground or in the broms?

thx!


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I have not observed any fighting but also notice that the frogs spend very little time together and can oftentimes be found scattered throughout the viv.

They also divide their time between the viv floor and upper environment - they seem to enjoy hunting on the ground amid the leaf litter.

Bill


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

I have four from Phil as well and I just heard them calling, which is a very faint/slight buzzing. I am going to put in black and white film canisters tonight.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Hey Bill,

How is the Paprika? Can you tell a difference?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

dmartin72 said:


> Hey Bill,
> 
> How is the Paprika? Can you tell a difference?


Really hard to say so far (apologies for the late reply....not sure how I missed your question David).

Bill


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

The most advanced quing tad at day 59 post hatching....looking good so far but I'm not counting my froglets until they morph!

Bill


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Wow, look at those legs. This is a really great thread. I'm interested to see the updates in the next 30 days. That'll be very cool to see.


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

yeah, please keep the pictures coming as they progress.

I love this thumb!!!!


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Ditto.

Great tad pic, Bill.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Updated photo taken today....Bill


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Wow! Fantastic!


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

amazing bill! I am in love with this thread


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## frogcrazy (Nov 23, 2004)

congrats bill,
put me on the list for some.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Your killing me.... I need to track some of those down.


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Love it Bill!


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Hey Jordan,

I finally heard one of the males quings calling yesterday (bascially the vittatus sitting below them shut long enough for me to hear). So now I know what I've been missing...good thing that female quings have better hearing than I do :wink: 

Bill


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Haha. Yeah, it is quite a strange call. The best way I can describe it is a creaky door.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Morphed out on the 4th of July and making his/her board debut, baby quing  Now resting comfortably along with a sibling in a 190 oz. froglet raising enclosure.



















Pretty good size coming out of the water as well...the coin is a US nickel.










Bill


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Gorgeous frogs Bill. Just a couple quick questions (which I am sure will be addressed in the pending care sheet :wink: )

Did you supplement the tads with paprika or any other color enhancing food? (the orange leg color is striking)

Whose line are your frogs (Phil, Todd, other?)


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Quing froglets/juvis tend to have redder legs than the adults whose normal coloration appears to be more salmon colored. I have been supplementing the quing breeding group since they were subadults but can't say that I've noticed a tremendous difference (though oddly enough the leg color varies to a degree across the adults).

My quings are from Phil Tan (his German line).

Yeah someone will have to get cracking on that Quing care sheet (looks westward 8) )

Bill

Edit: I did supplement the Quing tads with Cyclopeeze so we'll see if that translates at all to the adult stage.


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

wow bill!! you have got to be so excited!!! I am excited for you.

chris


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

elmoisfive said:


> Yeah someone will have to get cracking on that Quing care sheet (looks westward 8) )


Westward eh, who ever could you be speaking of? I am still going to do it lol, but i've been out of the house the past few days. Anyway Bill, great job and congrats!

Jordan


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

hey Bill I think that we are showing the belief that it takes two years for Quins to start laying isnt all that its cracked up to be.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I can not stop wiping the drool....


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I wonder to what extent there are differences between the older line established in the hobby (Todd Kelley I believe) versus the German line that Phil has been producing offspring from and selling (I know mine are from that line). Perhaps the German line is a stronger breeding line...I'm not ready to dismiss the experience of individuals who know a heck of a lot more about darts than I do.

But regardless I'll take the earlier breeding trend  

Bill


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

Mine are from Phil also.


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