# i dont want breeding



## shibbyplustax

Okay so i am not sure whether i am getting auratus,leucs or azureus yet but i am thinking that i dont want them breeding as i dont have time or $ to raise them. I would like a pair or small group.

My question is which would be better for each species, all males or all females?

Besides compatibility is one gender more bold or active then the other?

Oh and btw its a 36x18x36 exoterra


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## PeanutbuttER

Many people find breeding and raising eggs to froglets and adults to be one of the most rewarding aspects of the hobby, but I can understand that it could be a lot of work/hassle to some.

For what it's worth, I'm new to frogs as well. Of those three species, I believe male groupings would probably do the best. The only problem is that it would probably be a bit difficult to get a group of males put together if you're buying froglets. Chances increase with the number of froglets you get that you'll end up with both male and female, not to mention you could just as easily end up with an all female group.

I don't think one gender is more bold/active than the other. Though I can't prove it, I would be willing to say that I bet that your frogs would be the most bold if both genders were present and they were enticed to activity by the prospect of breeding with their tankmates.  I know I've lived in all male housing before and social as it was, I'd be a whole lot more willing to be outside, visible and active if I knew there was a chance some cute girls across the hall might see me...


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## jackxc925

If you don't want breeding then you can't keep a pair together, and if you don't want froglets you will have to cull them as eggs.

The only way I see for you to keep more than one frog is to have all females or all males.


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## Woodsman

I have a group of five male Mantella aurantiacas (still waiting to add some females). They call constantly and wrestle all the time, but overall seem very healthy. A very pretty frog.

Good luck, Richard.


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## MELLOWROO421

You could always go with a trio of leucs or auratus, let them do their thing and not worry about pulling eggs or tads. Worst case scenario you end up with a larger group that cost you no extra time or money.


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## shibbyplustax

MELLOWROO421 said:


> You could always go with a trio of leucs or auratus, let them do their thing and not worry about pulling eggs or tads. Worst case scenario you end up with a larger group that cost you no extra time or money.


But will they just keep breeding until my tank is super crowded?


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## shibbyplustax

PeanutbuttER said:


> Many people find breeding and raising eggs to froglets and adults to be one of the most rewarding aspects of the hobby, but I can understand that it could be a lot of work/hassle to some.
> 
> For what it's worth, I'm new to frogs as well. Of those three species, I believe male groupings would probably do the best. The only problem is that it would probably be a bit difficult to get a group of males put together if you're buying froglets. Chances increase with the number of froglets you get that you'll end up with both male and female, not to mention you could just as easily end up with an all female group.
> 
> I don't think one gender is more bold/active than the other. Though I can't prove it, I would be willing to say that I bet that your frogs would be the most bold if both genders were present and they were enticed to activity by the prospect of breeding with their tankmates.  I know I've lived in all male housing before and social as it was, I'd be a whole lot more willing to be outside, visible and active if I knew there was a chance some cute girls across the hall might see me...




Yea i understand and trust me i would love to do that but iv had bad experiences with animals breeding. When i was livinf with my aunt, my cousin had dwarf hamsters. Before you know it my aunt was buying extra cages just to house all the offspring. After a while they had like 4 or 5 tanks just filled with these things(it was actually pretty gross) but i am not sure if this could happen with frogs but id rather not have to deal with offspring.


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## Goji

I have a pair of Nicuaraguan auratus and both of them are very bold. I don't think they know how to be shy. They have even jumped on my hand several times. Here is some pics.








This is the female








And this is the male
Good luck with you decision!

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## vivlover10

Why not get a frog that will egg feed? So when the froglets morph out and grow a little bit you can sell them if you don't want them.


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## guppygal

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, you need three things in order to breed frogs - a male, a female, and some type of water feature for the tadpoles.

If any one of those is missing, say...the water feature, the likelihood of a successful breeding will be slim to none.

Or am I missing something?


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## vivlover10

guppygal said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, you need three things in order to breed frogs - a male, a female, and some type of water feature for the tadpoles.
> 
> If any one of those is missing, say...the water feature, the likelihood of a successful breeding will be slim to none.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


I don't have a water feature and mine still breed. They lay in broms and transport to broms or water filled film cannisters.

Or are you talking about larger frogs?


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## Ben Wehr

guppygal said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, you need three things in order to breed frogs - a male, a female, and some type of water feature for the tadpoles.
> 
> If any one of those is missing, say...the water feature, the likelihood of a successful breeding will be slim to none.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


Oh, that's sad. You'd see the dad traveling around the viv for days with a tad looking for water and eventually it'd get scraped off into the plants and die. and that would happen again and again.

You can always give unwanted froglets away. I'd agree that if you didn't want the hassle then give them a somewhat good sized water hole/dish and let the tads sort out thier issues with themselves and let them come out of the water and join the adults and if/when you get too many then give/sell some.


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## guppygal

Okay, so mommy lays her eggs, and daddy does his thing. Assuming that mom lays her eggs on a leaf, then we must assume that our captive bred frogs remember that they have to keep the eggs moist so that they don't dry out. If the op isn't interested in breeding, then remove the broms and stick with misting. Remove any eggs that are found. Then, we won't have to worry about poor daddy toting his tads around looking, for a puddle of water.

It's a tough world out there in the froggy hobby land....


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## Newtnerd

guppygal said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly, you need three things in order to breed frogs - a male, a female, and some type of water feature for the tadpoles.
> 
> If any one of those is missing, say...the water feature, the likelihood of a successful breeding will be slim to none.
> 
> Or am I missing something?


Yes as far as the tadpole stage is concerned, water is pretty essential haha, but it won't stop them from making eggs. Also if you have any kind of plant that holds even a little bit of water (doesn't necessarily have to be a brom) the parent could transport the tad to it. 

If you don't want them to breed
why get a group? You're going to have a pretty hard time getting a group of all one sex if you buy froglets. My suggestion would be to just get one or maybe two frogs.


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## Bcs TX

My suggestion, since you do not want breeding is to buy only one frog.
There are 2 reasons for my opinion, first you are planning on having a mixed tank, so risking/losing only one frog is better than risking/losing more frogs, plus with a mixed tank the inhabitants will need as much room as possible.


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## guppygal

Bcs TX said:


> My suggestion, since you do not want breeding is to buy only one frog.
> There are 2 reasons for my opinion, first you are planning on having a mixed tank, so risking/losing only one frog is better than risking/losing more frogs, plus with a mixed tank the inhabitants will need as much room as possible.


Beth makes sense here. I keep an adult female Cobalt in a tank by herself, and she's getting along just fine -


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## Newtnerd

guppygal said:


> Okay, so mommy lays her eggs, and daddy does his thing. Assuming that mom lays her eggs on a leaf, then we must assume that our captive bred frogs remember that they have to keep the eggs moist so that they don't dry out. If the op isn't interested in breeding, then remove the broms and stick with misting. Remove any eggs that are found. Then, we won't have to worry about poor daddy toting his tads around looking, for a puddle of water.
> 
> It's a tough world out there in the froggy hobby land....


If he has time to search his tank on a daily basis for eggs to exterminate, he might as well use that time to raise some tads. Plus it's easy to miss an egg. Some frogs start hiding them once they realize all of their eggs are disappearing. 

Again I would say, get a frog or two. There's no reason to get a group if you don't want breeding.


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## Golden State Mantellas

Newtnerd said:


> Some frogs start hiding them once they realize all of their eggs are disappearing.


What scientific information is this post based on?

That's a pretty bold claim to make that frogs will actually start hiding their eggs because they are aware that something is "stealing" them. 

Bottom line, if you don't want breeding, introduce only one animal, or buy a proven same sex pair, the issue is, in some species the females will show aggression towards one another, in which case you'd have to ensure your sexed pair are males.


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## guppygal

I'll 2nd the motion on two females. I was witness to a pet store setup where they didn't even know what they had. After a coworker told me about the new frogs, I dropped by to check them out. They were labeled Dendrobates Tinctorius, but the owner couldn't tell me what morph, although I knew. It turned out that they were both female Cobalts. It took about a month for the more aggressive female to bully the lesser female to death. The owner didn't realize it until I pointed it out to her.

If possible, stick with a single frog or males.


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## motydesign

in my profession and hobbies i have found that if you dont have time for a specific aspect of a task, you might not want to do it at all. when planning the time you have available to give to the hobby, what happens when you have either underestimated or mis judged what time is needed? what happens when you realize culturing food takes most of your time. or all the sudden you get a sick frog, can you give all means (inculding time) to bring everything back to normal? i mean most froggers have a hard time getting a frog to breed on purpose, i have a healthy sexed pair of escudos (that i am DYING to breed) (but i have nothing to show for it but better patience  )... its your call though


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## Xan Stepp

One more thing to remember is that auratus females often eat the eggs of other females. Leucs and tincts will do it as well but you'll probably have aggression issues first.


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## WendySHall

I don't understand why a few people seem to feel that the OP has to breed if he/she wants to keep frogs. Since when is that a requirement of being a good keeper? Yes, you must be willing to take the time to care, feed, and attend to the health of the frogs...but why add to it if he/she doesn't want to?

Also, there is only one safe bet to keep breeding from occurring and harmony in the tank... one frog only. Aggression will sometimes also occur among males.


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## shibbyplustax

motydesign said:


> in my profession and hobbies i have found that if you dont have time for a specific aspect of a task, you might not want to do it at all. when planning the time you have available to give to the hobby, what happens when you have either underestimated or mis judged what time is needed? what happens when you realize culturing food takes most of your time. or all the sudden you get a sick frog, can you give all means (inculding time) to bring everything back to normal? i mean most froggers have a hard time getting a frog to breed on purpose, i have a healthy sexed pair of escudos (that i am DYING to breed) (but i have nothing to show for it but better patience  )... its your call though


I can take care of the frogs needs.....i just dont want froglets.


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## Golden State Mantellas

shibbyplustax said:


> I can take care of the frogs needs.....i just dont want froglets.


I'd stick to just one frog then. Now it's just a matter of what color you like, you have the rainbow to choose from.


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## motydesign

shibbyplustax said:


> I can take care of the frogs needs.....i just dont want froglets.


Oh, ok i thought it was based off of a time issue that you didnt want to deal with breeding and the added time it took.


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## shibbyplustax

motydesign said:


> Oh, ok i thought it was based off of a time issue that you didnt want to deal with breeding and the added time it took.


yea its not that i *dont* have the time its just that i dont think i want to invest even more time in taking care of tadpoles/frogles, listing them for sale, shipping them and just the hastle of the whole thing. don t get me wrong im sure id enjoy it but at this point in my life i just dont think i have the time or patients for it.


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## frogfreak

shibbyplustax said:


> yea its not that i *dont* have the time its just that i dont think i want to invest even more time in taking care of tadpoles/frogles, listing them for sale, shipping them and just the hastle of the whole thing. don t get me wrong im sure id enjoy it but at this point in my life i just dont think i have the time or patients for it.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to breed. My wife and I had no intention on breeding when we first got started until we got our first eggs, tads, and froglets. Ha! 

I'd get males only and enjoy.


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## motydesign

shibbyplustax said:


> yea its not that i *dont* have the time its just that i dont think i want to invest even more time in taking care of tadpoles/frogles, listing them for sale, shipping them and just the hastle of the whole thing. don t get me wrong im sure id enjoy it but at this point in my life i just dont think i have the time or patients for it.


ok, i could understand that. However if you just had froglets hoping around in the tank one day (like most pumilio owners find) there is no added work, just put up on the board (someone in "location" come get free frogs... and you dont have to do anything...) i just feel there is something underlying in your question that i am trying to figure out the real reason why you dont want breeding to occur? 

sorry if im being too intrusive, but just calling it like i read it.

and if you want my opinion, just get a bunch of POSITIVELY sexed frogs and what ever they are, those spices will be fine together.


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## WendySHall

You may be looking for something that's not there. Many people have pets and have nothing to do with breeding them. It doesn't mean that they don't care for them. The species he mentioned (Auratus, Leucs, Tincs) don't lay just one egg here and there...they lay clutches of many eggs and fairly frequently. To raise the froglets would take a lot of time as well as space and add to expenses. So, I don't find it very "off-the-wall" to want to keep/care for frogs without raising froglets.


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## shibbyplustax

motydesign said:


> ok, i could understand that. However if you just had froglets hoping around in the tank one day (like most pumilio owners find) there is no added work, just put up on the board (someone in "location" come get free frogs... and you dont have to do anything...) i just feel there is something underlying in your question that i am trying to figure out the real reason why you dont want breeding to occur?
> 
> sorry if im being too intrusive, but just calling it like i read it.
> 
> and if you want my opinion, just get a bunch of POSITIVELY sexed frogs and what ever they are, those spices will be fine together.


yea i wouldnt mind if that did happen, however i wouldnt want the tank to get over populated. i guess im thinking it will be more work then it really is to get rid of froglets, but im sure after seeing them for a while it will also be hard for me to give them up. i never had sold anything on here before so i wasnt sure how hard it would be to get rid of them. the way you put it though it doesnt seem like it would be a problem if someone just came and picked them up from my house, does this happen alot? the one thing i didnt want to do was deal with shipping and such. just from selling crap on ebay i know how frustrating it can be when you have someone who doesnt think the thing you sold to them is "satisfactory" even though they got it for dirt cheap and nothing major is wrong with it. just another stress i wouldnt want to add into my life but like i said if it is as easy as just saying "i got these frogs come pick them up" and there gone, no big deal. is it easy to *sell* frogs this way or would it be easier to just give them to someone who is willing to come and pick them up? another thing that would bother me is making sure the frogs are getting a good home. i wouldnt want someone with 0 experience coming and picking up froglets that i have grown attached to and worry about them dying.


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## frogface

I had similar concerns when I was looking to get my first darts. Soon, I really wanted to have some eggs and tads to take care of. 

Going on 2 years with various darts now. Not overrun with froglets. First, the darts have to grow old enough to reproduce (for some, that can be well over a year old). Then you go through the bad egg period. Then you get your good eggs, in a few weeks, tads, in a few months froglets, more months after that, they are old enough to leave home. It's not immediate overpopulation. 

Maybe, like me, you'll find that, after a while, you would like to do some froglet raising. Or not. Totally up to you.


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## shibbyplustax

and who knows, maybe i am just jumping to conclusions, maybe i wont even have luck with any of my frogs breeding. i only owned a pair of juvinile auratus for about 2 months before i had to get rid of them because i found out i was going away for college, so im not even sure how easy it is to breed frogs. Thanks for all your responses though, it has alleviated some of my worries.


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## motydesign

good to hear! and seriously selling frogs on the site is as easy and if not easier than that if you give them away. i know the hobby in NY is CRAZY and your post wouldnt be up for more than 5 min before you had someone willing to knock on your front door.


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## shibbyplustax

motydesign said:


> good to hear! and seriously selling frogs on the site is as easy and if not easier than that if you give them away. i know the hobby in NY is CRAZY and your post wouldnt be up for more than 5 min before you had someone willing to knock on your front door.


ok cool, i just wasnt sure how the frog scene is here in ny lol. i always check the classifieds for frogs in new york just to see whats there but i never see any, i thought it was because not alotta froggers here but maybe they just sell immediatly and the post is deleted?


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## guppygal

You're very lucky that you have so many hobbyists around you. There are some of us who have hardly anybody nearby to take extra froglets off our hands. I'm lucky to have a couple of contacts within 100 miles, but they each have their own special setups and aren't particularly interested in what froglets I may have for sale or trade.

It sounds like you can do your own thing and if you do indeed become over-burdened with babies, someone in your neck o' the woods can probably help you out.

The important thing for you is to enjoy your frogs and enjoy the hobby. Beware, tho - it is definitely addicting 

k


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## PeanutbuttER

shibbyplustax said:


> is it easy to *sell* frogs this way or would it be easier to just give them to someone who is willing to come and pick them up? another thing that would bother me is making sure the frogs are getting a good home. i wouldnt want someone with 0 experience coming and picking up froglets that i have grown attached to and worry about them dying.


That's exactly why I'd sell them. From what I've seen, a lot of people who scope out free animals really only want them because they're free and maybe because they're cool. They may or may not have any intentions of providing even barely adequate levels of care (it's a generalization guys. I know there are people who get free animals and care for them just fine). Payment is just one way that I can be more sure that the person who buys it is willing to invest some of his/her time and effort into these frogs, which makes me more comfortable about them as a home. You can also be sure that your frogs aren't just going to be some impulse "buy" that the person will get bored of in a week or maybe even not realize that he/she needs to be culturing food for them. I have had people ask me if the frogs just eat the bugs in their cage, as if they'll feed themselves (they weren't talking about microfauna either BTW).

You won't get rich off frogs, so the money you make from them probably isn't going to be substantial in the first place just so there's not any misconception there though it doesn't sound like you are thinking that. I'm not against other people giving away free animals if they choose to, but I wouldn't feel comfortable unless I already knew the person receiving them. Giving animals away free to strangers has never seemed like a good idea to me. However, if someone was giving away free frogs in my area I wouldn't necessarily just ignore it, but at the same time I also would be planning on providing a good home for them.


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## Woodsman

This topic always seems odd to me when it appears. Many hobbyists put in a great deal of effort in trying to achieve successful breeding. Then, someone who doesn't have frogs yet at all, delcares what a pain it is to breed the frogs that they don't have.

Maybe dart frogs aren't really a good match for your needs. Perhaps a lone Tomato Frog or Pacman would be a better pet to look after.

Just a thought, Richard.


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## Ed

PeanutbuttER said:


> Payment is just one way that I can be more sure that the person who buys it is willing to invest some of his/her time and effort into these frogs, which makes me more comfortable about them as a home. You can also be sure that your frogs aren't just going to be some impulse "buy" that the person will get bored of in a week or maybe even not realize that he/she needs to be culturing food for them. I have had people ask me if the frogs just eat the bugs in their cage, as if they'll feed themselves (they weren't talking about microfauna either BTW).


I think you overestimate people's willingness to splurge on an interest.. I worked in the pet trade for a long time and people splurged on everything from the $2 lizard to the $2000 macaw to the $10,000 tank set up for sharks. It all depends on the person, we see it on here every so often when someone gets involved with frogs, grabs up a bunch of frogs and then sells them off and disappears or just disappears with the frogs.... 

Ed


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## frogface

Woodsman said:


> This topic always seems odd to me when it appears. Many hobbyists put in a great deal of effort in trying to achieve successful breeding. Then, someone who doesn't have frogs yet at all, delcares what a pain it is to breed the frogs that they don't have.
> 
> Maybe dart frogs aren't really a good match for your needs. Perhaps a lone Tomato Frog or Pacman would be a better pet to look after.
> 
> Just a thought, Richard.


Really, Richard? 

I think you're looking through the eyes of a breeder rather than a new hobbyist. When you're starting out, it all seems a bit daunting. Nothing wrong with having a few, non-breeding, frogs, IMO. Heck, I gave away a sexed pair to a breeder because I knew they would get better use of them than I would. I'm not in it to make a living. I'm only in it for for the giggles and warm fuzzies that the frogs give me. 

ETA: Richard, when I read your post, I missed the 'frog' part and thought you were recommending that he get a *tomato* for a pet. Now that I've cleaned off my glasses, I see that your post wasn't as mean as I thought it was.


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## shibbyplustax

Woodsman said:


> This topic always seems odd to me when it appears. Many hobbyists put in a great deal of effort in trying to achieve successful breeding. Then, someone who doesn't have frogs yet at all, delcares what a pain it is to breed the frogs that they don't have.
> 
> Maybe dart frogs aren't really a good match for your needs. Perhaps a lone Tomato Frog or Pacman would be a better pet to look after.
> 
> Just a thought, Richard.


i dont see the problem in having dart frogs and not wanting them to breed... just because you like dogs, do you want to become a dog breeder and sell dogs out of your house? i have many other herps and i am attracted to the dart hobby because of their personality and colors. I am in no way against breeding, but as a novice to the dart hobby i dont want to go in and quickly be over my head. i have no experience in breeding so instead of learning everything i have to do and buying any extra materials i need to do it, i figured the problem can be easily solved by buying the same sex, as i dont have an interest in breeding(*yet*). if that was something that would cause complications in my frogs life i obviously wouldnt do it, but if it isnt going to affect my frogs health, i dont see the harm. i dont really understand why dart frogs wont suit my "needs" if they arent breeding, what would be the difference if i got a different frog? tomato or pacman frogs arent bred in that hobby?

i understand why you may think its odd because breeding is often a sign that you are doing something right with your frogs, but i would like to enjoy them simply because i like dart frogs and not because i want them to breed.


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## Woodsman

Hi Frogface,

I wasn't (am not) trying to be mean. Personally, I have always believed that breeding is the proof that we are doing a good job as the caretakers of these beautiful organisms. Allowing the frogs to pursue all the activities of life that they would in the tropical forests, I feel, is our duty as froggers. Culling eggs is the arbortion isssue of the dart world and I, for one, am pro-life on this issue.

I wouldn't equate the desire to breed one's frogs to a desire to make a profit or financial living from keeping the frogs. Clearly, some people want to make money off their frogs, but I think that is a minority of the froggers that I know.

Tomato Frogs are stunning animals and worthy of keeping by anyone who loves amphibians.

Richard.



frogface said:


> Really, Richard?
> 
> I think you're looking through the eyes of a breeder rather than a new hobbyist. When you're starting out, it all seems a bit daunting. Nothing wrong with having a few, non-breeding, frogs, IMO. Heck, I gave away a sexed pair to a breeder because I knew they would get better use of them than I would. I'm not in it to make a living. I'm only in it for for the giggles and warm fuzzies that the frogs give me.
> 
> ETA: Richard, when I read your post, I missed the 'frog' part and thought you were recommending that he get a *tomato* for a pet. Now that I've cleaned off my glasses, I see that your post wasn't as mean as I thought it was.


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## PeanutbuttER

Ed said:


> I think you overestimate people's willingness to splurge on an interest.. I worked in the pet trade for a long time and people splurged on everything from the $2 lizard to the $2000 macaw to the $10,000 tank set up for sharks. It all depends on the person, we see it on here every so often when someone gets involved with frogs, grabs up a bunch of frogs and then sells them off and disappears or just disappears with the frogs....
> 
> Ed


Not overestimating as I actually completely agree with you, rather I'm just using that more or less as a safety net. A lot of the frogs commonly bred are pretty affordable (30-50 per frog seems affordable to me at least), so price alone isn't that much of a discriminator between good homes or not. However, like I said I feel it does discriminate between those at least who do not have the means to care for the frogs in the first place and those that probably don't. I agree with you though that people part a little too easily with their money on things they should really think through better beforehand (all the unused exercise equipment sitting in basements and garages across America would agree with me on that ). 

Maybe it's also because I've met some people before who ask to take in free animals and I've been sorely unimpressed with them... (once again, that's a sweeping generalization based on limited experiences with a few people). I see a bunch of people like this locally on classifieds and frankly it would scare me to give an animal to them, however since the topic was talking about listing the free frogs on here that should increase the chance that the froglets find their way into qualified/caring hands.

It's probably unrealistic for anyone to say they will only put frogs in good homes since once they leave your care there's no real way you'll know how they're being kept, but I'd think it's not unrealistic for hobbyists with maybe 1 or 2 breeding pairs to say they'll do their best to find good homes for their froglets.

Another point I thought of this morning that I wanted to throw out there is that froglets can also be traded between hobbyists should you ever want to expand into other dart species. Just a thought.


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## Ed

A lot of the frogs are relatively inexpensive but there is a problem that is often overlooked when discussing prices is that there are boom and bust cycles to prices and that directly affects the ability to sell or even give away frogs. I've seen IAD auctions where azureus couldn't be sold for $15 and I've talked to breeders about the first big cycles of E. tricolor/anthyoni when they could sell froglets for $15 and had problems giving them away.... I agree that unless it is a school teacher, I tend to avoid people who are advertising for free frogs or other animals but I've also been gifted animals on occasion. The most recent animal in quarantine is a high yellow Biak chondro that was gifted to me. 

Ed


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## frogface

Richard, I only thought you were being mean when I thought you were telling him to get a pet tomato instead of a frog.


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## Goji

When I first got into the hobby I said I didn't want to breed. I just wannted two frogs and thats that's. Well, who would have though that my first two froglets were gonna end up being a pair. But from the moment I laid my eyes on those beautiful little creatures I was head over heals. Now I have 11 tads and they are just as facinating. And who knows maybe our little town zoo would be interested in starting a dart frog display . I guess all I'm trying to say is that once you get going you may not be able to stop, because it truelly is a toxic addiction.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## guppygal

Ed said:


> A lot of the frogs are relatively inexpensive but there is a problem that is often overlooked when discussing prices is that there are boom and bust cycles to prices and that directly affects the ability to sell or even give away frogs. I've seen IAD auctions where azureus couldn't be sold for $15 and I've talked to breeders about the first big cycles of E. tricolor/anthyoni when they could sell froglets for $15 and had problems giving them away.... I agree that unless it is a school teacher, I tend to avoid people who are advertising for free frogs or other animals but I've also been gifted animals on occasion. The most recent animal in quarantine is a high yellow Biak chondro that was gifted to me.
> 
> Ed


Ed, I'm tickled to see your position on donating frogs to teachers. I just setup a teacher with a bunch of supplies, some cultures, and 3 blue/bronze auratus tadpoles. All she had to do was come up with the tank. The good news is that she already has experience with pdfs. I also mentioned your name as someone who could help - I guess I should've given you a head's up, huh?

To the op, it's definitely a thought. If you know of any teachers who would like to keep pdfs in their classroom, I think it would be an ideal learning experience for the kids. It would also give you an outlet for any resulting tadpoles and/or froglets.
k


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