# Noise level & size ??



## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Alright, so I went to a local store that I heard had darts and for the first time ever I got to see a real live "Ranitomeya fantastica". According to the guy there this thing was full grown and let me tell you something ;I heard they were small but they are not small..... they are TINY !!!! The Auratus they had there looked like giants next to these guys and they would have no problem suckking one down . I fed crickets that were considerably larger than them. 
Are all the thumbs this small ?? Is there no middle grownd ??

If that is the case there is no way I'm getting those as my first frogs. I don't care how hardy they are. 

On the other hand they are Beautiful.  I mean wicked patterns and colors. Maybe in a few years.

I've always wanted Leucs but I hear so many completly different opinions about how loud they are so I have no clue  I've never actually heard them or any Darts in real life.

Any body care to give their opinion ???

Cheers


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Leucs are a beautiful frog. Curious as to why you're concerned about how loud they are...Going in a bedroom or something like that?

Our Leucs have an awesome call. They're not as loud as some have posted. I definately can't hear them on another floor of the house.


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

I've never seen a fantastica in person, but I have seen retics and own three lamasi. I consider those species small, and I'd have to guess the fants are comparable in size to them. My standard imitator is much larger than my lamasi or retics, but still much smaller than any of my auratus.


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. The reason I'm concerned about noise level is cause I'm moving to the top floor of a house so I'm not alone. I've listened to whatever recordings I could find but I still don't know what the reality is. 

I really liked the Varaderos but like I said if the size is that tiny it's not gonna happen. I like them all but the thumbs seems to have a much more intersting social & breeding behaviour.

Thanks again


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Leucs would probably be a better choice for a first frog. Thumbs, especially fants can be delicate. Leucs are not super loud and pretty much call during the day. I doubt it would bother roommates. Good luck.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

As far as 'thumbnail' darts are concerned the fantastica group would be considered some of the biggest- thumbs actually....

S


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

beat me to it shawn. similar in size to bigger pumilio. ive NEVER seen fants for sale at a store though. they are a shy, expensive frog that isnt commonly bred in large numbers, and that makes them generally a bad choice for someone to sell at a storefront. 

did they look like this?









james


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Pretty sure he was looking at northern variabilis, not fants....

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:13,s:0&biw=1579&bih=744


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Thank you all again .

This is he feedback I was looking for. I'm relieved to hear that Leuc calls won't travel from room to room.

I'm seconding guessing mydelf now as to what they were but they looked closer to the one in James' picture. I will double check next time I go there. If they are variabilis does that mean that imitators are bigger ??

If those are considered one of the bigger ones then by the time I have enough experience to keep them my eyesight will be too poor to see them. 

I really think it's going to be Leucs but no hurry I just finshed planting my tank and I can enjoy it a loooong time just like this while everything matures. 

Again the feedback is much appreciated.


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

i have auratus, leucs, and tincs. I had read all the stuff about how loud they are too, but mine are not nearly as loud as I was expecting. It's definitely audible, but I wouldn't describe it as "loud" at all.


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

Thumbnails are shockingly small. I got 3 Yuris from NPaul. Two were pretty much adults and one was a froglet. It took a while to find him in the shipping container. All three are doing fine after nine months. I have at least one male. Bless his little heart, calls all the time. Mist them, feed them and so far, they are fine!


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Lol !! Bless him indeed. I knew thumbs were small but that turned out to be a serious understatment !! On top of that they shoot like frikkin bullets !! One moment I'm looking at it the next ........ POOF !! GONE!!

I have a 36x18x24 Ex Terra and if I got thumbs I'll probably be posting some horror story of how one escaped and ......... !!

So let's say I have Leucs in there and they are in my living room. If we're watching T.V will their call still be audible ?? Like do I have to raise the volume a bit to drown it ?? Is it the same for the other Tincs with the call volume ? I'm interested in those that can be kept in groups. From all the different stories I've heard I'm kind of under the impression that how loud the call is depends on the individual frog and that some are considerably louder than others. Has there ever been a poll about the loudest , fastest , smallest, frog ??

Great feedback everyone. Thank you all and keep it coming.
Cheers



Freeradical53 said:


> Thumbnails are shockingly small. I got 3 Yuris from NPaul. Two were pretty much adults and one was a froglet. It took a while to find him in the shipping container. All three are doing fine after nine months. I have at least one male. Bless his little heart, calls all the time. Mist them, feed them and so far, they are fine!


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Tincs cannot be kept in groups. But they have an incredibly soft call.

My leucs can be heard through two closed doors when the television is off.... However, if you're concerned about others hearing them, most frogs sound like birds, and since they're diurnal it's not like they're be waking anyone up.

As far as the thumbnail, I have to question whether or not what you saw what an adult. It's rare that I've found a pet store owner who sold full grown dart frogs... or was willing to tell the whole truth rather than what is most likely to sell. If you saw a variabilis they're still probably bigger than imitators (my variabilis are significantly larger than my imitators).


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

The store in question who has the darts has Variabilis Northerns, El cope Auratus, Micro spot Auratus, and Leucs. Variablis are under 6 months old, Leucs are probably 3 months old. As for the auratus they are of sub adult sizes.
I really have no clue of how you could of mistaken the Variabilis for Fants Morphman expecially when they are labeled...


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Lance said:


> The store in question who has the darts has Variabilis Northerns, El cope Auratus, Micro spot Auratus, and Leucs. Variablis are under 6 months old, Leucs are probably 3 months old. As for the auratus they are of sub adult sizes.
> I really have no clue of how you could of mistaken the Variabilis for Fants Morphman expecially when they are labeled...


Very simple Lance ... I forgot !! I didn't take notes. Am I gonna go to hell for mixing up the two . 

Chill out man I'm new and not everyone has your expert skills. That's why we ask questions !!

Besides the real question here is about the general sound level and size of the frogs not how correctly identify them ( also important) . 

Anyways...... I appreciate the feedback.

Thank you


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## M_Rybecky (Mar 16, 2009)

I have a breeding pair of leucs +1 of their offspring in a 29g with no vents on it. I used 1/4 inch glass to make the front (its a vert). I cant hear them over my TV or in another room. The 1/4 inch glass probably helps a bit. Also when my male calls it tends to be in the morning right before their lights come on till about 20 mins after they are on. And again right before they go off. I dont know about anyone elses Leucs but mine don't call all day. On the other hand my Varaderos, they are loud. I can hear them in my bathroom with the door closed and the male never shuts up. My family can hear him "screaming" from the laundry room which is one room over from mine but separated by a concrete block foundation with a regular sized door frame cut into it, no door tho. They don't have 1/4 inch glass.


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## Percularis (Mar 22, 2011)

At least you don't have to sleep with this for 6 months every year...


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

morphman said:


> Lol !! Bless him indeed. I knew thumbs were small but that turned out to be a serious understatment !! On top of that they shoot like frikkin bullets !! One moment I'm looking at it the next ........ POOF !! GONE!!
> 
> I have a 36x18x24 Ex Terra and if I got thumbs I'll probably be posting some horror story of how one escaped and ......... !!
> 
> ...


Like a couple others have mentioned, I think the calls are pretty variable even within a species. You can hear my leucs with the TV on, but barely. And the tank is probably 10 feet away from the television. I would say most birds are way louder than frogs, if you've ever been in a pet store with birds. People describe leucs having a "canary-like" call, but mine is much quieter. And the native gray treefrogs that we can hear outside at night, their call is MUCH louder than the darts.


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

M_Rybecky said:


> I have a breeding pair of leucs +1 of their offspring in a 29g with no vents on it. I used 1/4 inch glass to make the front (its a vert). I cant hear them over my TV or in another room. The 1/4 inch glass probably helps a bit. Also when my male calls it tends to be in the morning right before their lights come on till about 20 mins after they are on. And again right before they go off. I dont know about anyone elses Leucs but mine don't call all day. On the other hand my Varaderos, they are loud. I can hear them in my bathroom with the door closed and the male never shuts up. My family can hear him "screaming" from the laundry room which is one room over from mine but separated by a concrete block foundation with a regular sized door frame cut into it, no door tho. They don't have 1/4 inch glass.


 Really  I thought the Leucs would be louder than the Varaderos considering the huge difference is size. I used 6mm glass too so I hope it buffers the sound if I put frogs in there. This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for and I thank you and all the others for sharing your experience.

Yeah that frog in the video would leave me homeless  I would get kicked out so quick . Lol. He's cool 

Keep it coming


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

My leucs are loud! I have 2 males and a female in a 46g bowfront at the bottom of the stairs. I can here them at top of the stairs through the bathroom door. I can here them from pretty much anywhere in the house but the sound is pleasant. Its only annoying when I want to sleep in and they start singing at 7 am on Sunday morning. Even with my bedroom door closed, they wake me up. 

If you are worried about the sound, go with a pair of tincs. I have a couple breeding tinctorious pairs and have yet to hear a call from any of them. 

My only 'thumbnail' frogs are Amazonicus and I can barely here their call. And yes they are full grown and are smaller than a Azureus froglet the day it comes out of the water.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

morphman said:


> Really  I thought the Leucs would be louder than the Varaderos considering the huge difference is size.


size really means nothing. Tincs are larger darts, but among the softest calls I know.


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Frank H said:


> My leucs are loud! I have 2 males and a female in a 46g bowfront at the bottom of the stairs. I can here them at top of the stairs through the bathroom door. I can here them from pretty much anywhere in the house but the sound is pleasant. Its only annoying when I want to sleep in and they start singing at 7 am on Sunday morning. Even with my bedroom door closed, they wake me up.
> 
> *Not what I wanted to hear but definitly what I needed to hear. Thank you for sharing your opinion. Now I know that even though for the most part Leuc calls are not that loud but depending on your setup and the individual results may vary.*
> 
> ...


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

You can go with leucs and create a tank that is more or less entirely sealed. That will deaden some of the sound. Moving my leucs from an exo terra to a 46 bowfront changed the loudness immensely.

One frog that doesn't seem to be considered here is auratus. Louder call than tincs, softer call than leucs, just a tiny bit smaller than leucs, does much better in groups than tinctorius will do.... And there are a number of morphs to choose from, so you can get the color you want! (Just don't mix localities).


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Yes I think my leucs are fairly loud; they are louder than my vents, variabilis, pumilio, tincs, auratus, etc. Some of my younger leucs that have just started calling are more quiet (thought I'm sure they will get louder...), I can barely hear their call without any tv or anything from the next room. However, my breeding males are a bit louder. In an all glass tank with all glass top (no mesh venting) I can hear them quietly upstairs (one floor up) in the morning with no other sounds, or in the adjacent room while watching TV. Again, it's not overpowering; I really like their call so I don't mind it at all. If I really wanted to it's easy enough to drown out by turning the tv or radio up, etc. Oh, and they do call in the late morning mostly... very rarely in the evening at night for mine so they have had no effect with sleeping.
If you really don't like the call, look into some other frogs that might work in groups then. Auratus are really nice and there are some absolutely stunning varieties that are often overlooked (I especially think some of the blue/bronze, campana, and Costa Rican are nice, but check out more at Dendrobates auratus Morphguide ). A couple other possibilities could be Mantellas (they have similar care to darts in many ways, are kind of in-between in terms of size with the large and small dart frogs, and have a medium chirping call. Also, maybe look into galactonotus, I don't know how loud their call is but I think I've seen others keep them in groups.
Bryan


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Yes I think my leucs are fairly loud; they are louder than my vents, variabilis, pumilio, tincs, auratus, etc. Some of my younger leucs that have just started calling are more quiet (thought I'm sure they will get louder...), I can barely hear their call without any tv or anything from the next room. However, my breeding males are a bit louder. In an all glass tank with all glass top (no mesh venting) I can hear them quietly upstairs (one floor up) in the morning with no other sounds, or in the adjacent room while watching TV. Again, it's not overpowering; I really like their call so I don't mind it at all. If I really wanted to it's easy enough to drown out by turning the tv or radio up, etc. Oh, and they do call in the late morning mostly... very rarely in the evening at night for mine so they have had no effect with sleeping.
> If you really don't like the call, look into some other frogs that might work in groups then. Auratus are really nice and there are some absolutely stunning varieties that are often overlooked (I especially think some of the blue/bronze, campana, and Costa Rican are nice, but check out more at Dendrobates auratus Morphguide ). A couple other possibilities could be Mantellas (they have similar care to darts in many ways, are kind of in-between in terms of size with the large and small dart frogs, and have a medium chirping call. Also, maybe look into galactonotus, I don't know how loud their call is but I think I've seen others keep them in groups.
> Bryan


 Thanks for all the information. I personally like the call of most of the frogs. I think it's something in between a bird and a cricket. I just don't know about the people I'll be living with now and in the future. Maybe I should post an add for a "frogger" room mate.

I have thought about Mantellas but it took me long enough to learn the little I do about Darts  I know I can probably find all the info I need somewhere on this board . hmmmm...... 

What I didn't know is just how many amazing looking morphs of auratus there are. There's some SWEET ones !! Thanks for the morphguide. The frog itself is very pretty to begin with and some of those morphs really got me thinking. I wonder if I can find any in Canada.

And on we go...

I really do appreciate all this info. I hope this thread helps others too and that nobody else struggles with their decision like me.

Thank you everyone
Cheers


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## Shade71 (May 27, 2008)

I had leucs for a few months till the male started calling. I live in an old wood/brick 1920's building and I was actually becoming concerned the sound would carry as their tank was on a common wall (old plaster and lathe).
I also have terribs (which are just as loud) but their tank is on an inside wall so it only affects me (and I've learned I can baffle the sound somewhat based on what I make the tops of the tanks out of).


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Here is some more info on mantellas: Mantella Frogs I'm sure you will be able to find auratus in Canada because Mark Pepper and Understory Enterprises are there, and they have many different types of quality frogs.
Bryan


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

morphman said:


> Thanks for all the information. I personally like the call of most of the frogs. I think it's something in between a bird and a cricket. I just don't know about the people I'll be living with now and in the future. Maybe I should post an add for a "frogger" room mate.
> 
> I have thought about Mantellas but it took me long enough to learn the little I do about Darts  I know I can probably find all the info I need somewhere on this board . hmmmm......
> 
> ...


Have you looked at understory enterprises' website? They are in Canada. Their last price list from May had these auratus available:

All frogs are captive bred at UE.
(Prices quoted in US $)

D. auratus – turquoise & bronze (El Cope) - $40
D. auratus – microspot - $30
D. auratus – blue & bronze - $40
D. auratus - camouflage - $30
D. auratus - giant blue - $40
D. auratus - campana - $25

Their website is Home | Understory Enterprises

When you look at their pics, they also say which auratus forms are more shy than others. It says on their website their El Cope auratus are very bold. I have green/bronze auratus, and they are pretty bold, and visible all the time. The blue/black auratus are quite shy, and are usually not visible.

I also have to say, kudos to you on doing research before getting your frogs. I did the same as you, reading and reading for months before getting darts a few years ago, but alas, most appear to buy first, research later.


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> size really means nothing.


There is a good joke here, but since it's not the tdome, I'll let it go.....


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i dont know where the idea came about that varadero (imitator) calls are quiet. my imitators are louder than pumilio and can be heard in an adjacent room.

james


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

My veradero imitators (and nominant imitators) are quite loud.

I'm not sure how appropriate it is to be posting the pricelist for another vendor :/


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

lincolnrailers said:


> Have you looked at understory enterprises' website? They are in Canada. Their last price list from May had these auratus available:
> 
> When you look at their pics, they also say which auratus forms are more shy than others. It says on their website their El Cope auratus are very bold. I have green/bronze auratus, and they are pretty bold, and visible all the time. The blue/black auratus are quite shy, and are usually not visible.
> 
> I also have to say, kudos to you on doing research before getting your frogs. I did the same as you, reading and reading for months before getting darts a few years ago, but alas, most appear to buy first, research later.


 Yes I have contacted U.S Enterprizes but to be honest, till now I've completly overlooked the Auratus. I thought they just had the one morph. 

I don't want to leave any feedback here about them and if the Mods feel like the pricelist is a bit of a conflict then ( please edit the post ). I do appreciate the info. 

I guess there is enough feedback to suggest that my top two picks " Leucs & Varaderos " are some of the louder frogs  Honestly bummed about that one but thank God for all the other options. I've been keeping other pets for over 25 years and one thing I've learned is if researching the animal is too much then taking care of it won't be any easier. At least in the beginning 

I will not make a hasty decision and if I have to wait or go without dart frogs that's ok cause I still enjoy everything else  


I will read up on the mantellas but I won't give up on the Darts. My Tank mas a vent and is already running at 80%  for heat and 99% for humidity. Sealing it more means for sure I will need fans to cool it and I was hoping to get away with just adding another vent  Maybe when I add the misting system the temps will drop. Right now I have to open the front lid to cool the tank but not an option if I have frogs. 

This is turning out to be an awsome thread. Thanks Dendroboard !!


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> My veradero imitators (and nominant imitators) are quite loud.
> 
> I'm not sure how appropriate it is to be posting the pricelist for another vendor :/


I'm assuming that everyone gets the same pricelist. I always wonder why people don't put them on their website, maybe sometimes prices change depending on frog size/availability.....but I have to say I prefer a site like Patrick's where the prices are all clearly stated.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

SmackoftheGods said:


> size really means nothing. Tincs are larger darts, but among the softest calls I know.


The loudest frogs in my collection are one of the smallest (second only to the lugubris and the escudo). It also doesn't hurt that they are crepuscular. We hear nothing but this each morning and night. Then the bassleri and pepperi chime in...


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

stemcellular said:


> The loudest frogs in my collection are one of the smallest (second only to the lugubris and the escudo). It also doesn't hurt that they are crepuscular. We hear nothing but this each morning and night. Then the bassleri and pepperi chime in...
> 
> YouTube - ‪Male A. altamazonicus calling‬‏
> 
> YouTube - ‪Ameerega altamazonicus calling‬‏


OK that second one seems to show a bit of mercy but that first one... !!! Holy sh*t morning AND night !?!! Loud and persistent I thought they only called in the day . Even for me that would take getting used to never mind the room mate . I can so see me getting evicted 

The frogs are cute though. What's "crepuscular"?? 

I will note to add those two to the " forget it for now " list. 

Still trying to contol mt temperature 

Thanks again everyone


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

MyINIBICO variabilis are fairly loud, they've gotten louder as the male has matured, but they are far from bothersome. And they're fairly content to stay in their 12X12X18 Exoterra and when I feed, I can watch them hunt with the front door open * warning, I don't leave the door unattended. They do have a meanish look on their face most of the time, but not as much as my Mancreek. That frog always looks pissed. But I find my variabilis to be at least as bold as my azureus and more bold than my breeding pair of Campana auratus. The vari's are always out and about. They don't seem to mind the thundering herd of dogs that runs around the living room, as the tank is on the shelf above the computer. Quite outgoing for a frog that size. I've never regretted once getting my first thumb.


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

botanyboy03 said:


> MyINIBICO variabilis are fairly loud, they've gotten louder as the male has matured, but they are far from bothersome. And they're fairly content to stay in their 12X12X18 Exoterra and when I feed, I can watch them hunt with the front door open * warning, I don't leave the door unattended. They do have a meanish look on their face most of the time, but not as much as my Mancreek. That frog always looks pissed. But I find my variabilis to be at least as bold as my azureus and more bold than my breeding pair of Campana auratus. The vari's are always out and about. They don't seem to mind the thundering herd of dogs that runs around the living room, as the tank is on the shelf above the computer. Quite outgoing for a frog that size. I've never regretted once getting my first thumb.


 I thank you for the reaassuring words. I'm starting to get over the shock of the TINY size of thumbnails so maybe........ Call volume will still be a factor but now that I think of it I've kept and bred lots of tiny things like bettas and I've had to hand raise 1 day old Cockateils cause both parents escaped. I know there are differences but I think I might muster up the courage to start looking at Thumbs again. Too bad the varaderos are loud. I like the vents and they seem to be a good first timer choice as per my research. I know they are more shy but just how shy...?? I think my fascination with their breeding and social behaviour will override my fear of how small they are.

Again thanks everyone for all this feedback it really does help and has helped more than most reading I've done.

On a different note.... I found out what "crepescular" means and it means that I will be avoiding that category  

Cheers


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

My intermedius aren't loud at all (call similar to varaderos and other imitators). I had them 10 feet from my bed for all of last year and they never got annoying.

I had to sell my Santa Isabel Anthonyi b/c of loudness, even in a sealed tank they woke me up more than a few times, so I'm not insensitive to noise... still don't think I could ever call my intermedius loud. It also depends on the individual frog though.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

My FG vents were next to my bed for a few months. They were in a sealed tank, and the call was a pleasant volume. As for being shy, the male hides all the time, calling from a brom axil in the back, while the female is always out front, either in the leaf litter or on the glass. I guess it depends on the individal disposition.


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## illinoisfrogs (Apr 16, 2010)

http://http://members.webs.com/MembersB/editAppPage.jsp?app=videos&pageID=241758019#videos/videos/view/14381251-calling-male-d

I finally got a decent video of our male leuc calling, with the lid opened and closed.....


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## Peekskillfrogger (Jul 10, 2011)

Im pretty new to pdf's (under two months). I just picked up some tarapoto imitators, and theyre already calling. Its actualyl realyl pleasant. I can hear it in my loft upstairs with the ac on. Its definately audible but in no way overwhelming. I like that I can hear them calling cus it lets me know theyre ok. If you plan ahead and treally look into the needs of the frog dont let the size scare you off, but def. see how small they really are and make sure your tank is frog proof for their size. Ive had their viv set up for almost three weeks now and I was constantly going back and making changes to tweak it so it was just right. It was challenging to seal the tank and make sure the temp and humidity stayed in the acceptable range but it is 100% doable with some planning. Good luck!

ps dont be so quick to write off auratus, theyre gorgeous frogs and they come in a huge variety of colors. Same with leucs, the banded version is a highly sought after frog despite theyre "beginner" status.


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## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

I think a calling frog is a happy frog, and that makes me happy. I have I.imitators in the livingroom, Leucs in a large hooded tank in the dining room, and Cayo Nancy toward the front of the house. I love listening to them sing, and they are all different. I also have a breeding pair of blue/bronze auratus and I can stick my head in their tank and never hear a peep. All of my other frogs are larger tincs which are totally soundless as far as I can tell.

I think a lot of the fun and satisfaction of owning pdfs is listening to their calls. And then there is the mockingbird that sits on the chimney cap and sings every song known to birdkind right down my chimney and straight into the living room. We fixed him, though - we turned up the tv volume!

k


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