# ants?



## Guest (Apr 27, 2004)

every where i have read not to feed our darts ants, why? Ants are a part of their diet in the wild, matter fact i just went to the zoo in Tulsa OK and they had their green and black auratus out in the open (about 60 of them!!) And i spoke to the herp man and asked about their diet since i noticed them devouring the ants, and he said that is their main diet and that they supplement with fruit flies and pin head crickets. by the way if anyone is visiting OK anytime soon i HIGHLY recomend visiting the Tulsa Zoo and seeing thier rain forest exhibit to see thier auratus section it is unbelievable!!!


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

Ants are part of the main diet in the wild. The only thing to be careful of in insecticides. Also this will aid in the production of their natural toxins. It has been isolated to two chemical compounds that create the toxins in the frogs. Ants are highly acidic and frogs re-synthesis the toxins to a great potency. I do not have the New York Post article with me but I will look it up and post the chemicals. I personally have fed ant to my dart frogs before.

Later and happy Frogging,
Jason Juchems


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2004)

yeah when i was talking to the herp man at the zoo he said he had 55 gal at his home and what he did was after he had finished setting up the tank but before putting in the frogs he ordered a colony of ants (they send you a queen!) and he placed the ants in the tank and let them establish themselves creating a nest under the substrate and then added the frogs, he said he now has a never ending supply of their main diet and then just supplements with friut flies and crickets!


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2004)

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. What happens when the frogs have ate all that they can and the ants continue to crawl around the viv? True, frogs eat ants in the wild but in an enclosed environment, the ants could make quick work of a frog. Ants also pose the risk of escaping and becoming a household problem. While I'm not against the idea of feeding ants to frogs, I just don't think it is a good idea to have my precious frogs roaming over a huge colony of ants. Feeding them in extreme moderation isn't a bad idea though.

-Bill J.


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

You also need to make sure that it is the type of ant dart frogs will eat. There are many kinds that they will just spit right back out. I believe these tend to be ants high in formic acid. I have always fancied the idea of setting up an ant colony in a vivarium but it would have to be a huge tank (along the lines of 150gal). The frogs need to be able to get away from the ant colony.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2004)

yeah i would like to set up a five gallon with a colony of ants, only if there is a way to get the south american species that they eat though. An ant colony is 100 times easier to maintain then a fruit fly culture or anything else we feed out darts for that matter... if i can get to work i'll let you guys know the results!!!


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

I have not had a problem feeding black ant to my Tinc pair. You can also buy ants from http://www.carolina.com along with termites.

The article in the New York Post is from Sept. 2, 2003, under the Science Desk Observatory called “Frogs as a Poison Factory” By HENRY FOUNTAIN. You can pay $2.95 to the New York Post for a copy of the article but I received my from a school database. The National Institutes of Health and National Aquarium in Baltimore researchers found “PTX alkaloid is converted into much more potent, deadly substance on frog's skin than level originally consumed by frog.” 

“The researchers fed the frogs a synthetic DHQ and a synthetic PTX. They found that four-fifths of the PTX had been converted to a much more potent form.” This researcher was conducted on the genus Dendrobates. 

Later and Happy Frogging,
Jason Juchems


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

What are the common black ants that dont ever bite? i am interested in if they are toxic, same with the common sugar ant, because wouldnt be hard to start a colony of them, i would hav a colony for a while so there wouldnt be no problem of insectisides.

Ryan


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

I think what you are referring to is Carpenter ants.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Ghost ants might be them, but no not carpenter for sure, they live under anything, but not in wood. The black ants usually live under rocks or something. Dont know what they are actually called, just local names.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

*micro ants*

I have collected "micro ants" here in Kansas. They are about the size of a large springtail, and slower moving then the larger ants. They are blackish brown in color. I collect them by just putting a piece of bread in a cup and waiting about an hour when it swarms with these little ants. They are easy to shake off. Just shake them into a funnel so they will fall into a container with your vitamin supplement. At first I didn't have high hopes, after listening to the discussion of formic acid, but my tinc seemed to like them. He ate quite a few, but still seems to prefer the larger, meatier, fruit flies. (I put fruit flies and ants in to see his preference) It would probably be an excellent and easy way to feed froglets and thumbnails, considering their small size, easy to collect, and slower moving attributes, IF other frogs will accept them and not just tinctorius. They are definitely easier to capture, find, and transport compared to springtails.

Rain


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