# Hybrid Alert?



## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

I went to a zoo and they had a single-large exhibit for darts. It consisted of a large vivarium with cascading pathos and a water feature. It hosted a mix of tincs, auratus, and some phylobates. Upon closer inspection some had unusual patterns and I snapped a pic of this guy. It looks like an tinc/auratus mix to me. Opinions?


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I agree. Zoo's are pretty good about not selling or putting hybrids out to other institutions or hobbyists, but, regardless, this should not be happening, ESPECIALLY from them.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Could be. I think this particular exhibit has been mentioned before, and all Ill say is ... That exhibit is just to show off some cool frogs to a big group of peoe who will more than likely never know better. It's not a conservation exhibit, and so I think it serves its purpose


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

Too bad hybrids are a bad thing....cuz that frog is freaking awesome!


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

volcano23000 said:


> Too bad hybrids are a bad thing....cuz that frog is freaking awesome!


I agree its a nice looking frog. It's just not something that would occur in nature since lots of these frogs don't share natural habitats. 

That being said, I like the purty colors too


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

That one is pretty nice. They're usually kinda ugly with an awkward shape.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Are there any sites that show hybrids? Ive googled but can hardly find any....... I guess thats a good thing tho.


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

scoy said:


> Are there any sites that show hybrids? Ive googled but can hardly find any....... I guess thats a good thing tho.


"Poison Frogs: Biology, Species & Captive Husbandry" has a few pictures of hybrids. There is a neat picture of a leucomelasXauratus. I would post them but I don't think it's legal to take pictures of pages of a book and post them.

If you're interested I can get you a picture of a P. terribicolor tomorrow 

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2


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## Fantastica (May 5, 2013)

The zoo I volunteer at used to have aratus and azureas in the same tank, I think 20 total for a 20 gallon tank. They recently fixed this though, and now have some leucs and it's separated between the species. 

I know that AZA zoos are run by the species survival plan, so they would never consider hybrids to go to other zoos and continue breeding.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Who's heading to the zoo with me for a sit-in protest against dart frog hybrids?I finished sharpening my pitchfork and am printing the protest banners. I also emailed Avazz to start a global petition against dart frog hybridization, but no word back yet...All I came up with so far to chant is "to hell with Hybrids" and "don't let hybrid polywogs become frogs"

Wait a minute what happened.... looking at the responses, and no one is outraged by this incendiary behavior? What are these measured and sensible responses to a trusted institution promoting, and even profiting from, crossing species lines? They are rubbing hybridization in our faces and you guys are ok with it?


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

oldlady25715 said:


> Who's heading to the zoo with me for a sit-in protest against dart frog hybrids?I finished sharpening my pitchfork and am printing the protest banners. I also emailed Avazz to start a global petition against dart frog hybridization, but no word back yet...All I came up with so far to chant is "to hell with Hybrids" and "don't let hybrid polywogs become frogs"
> 
> Wait a minute what happened.... looking at the responses, and no one is outraged by this incendiary behavior? What are these measured and sensible responses to a trusted institution promoting, and even profiting from, crossing species lines? They are rubbing hybridization in our faces and you guys are ok with it?


Lol! It's a zoo and they won't be released. It's common practice at many zoo's.

Most people wouldn't have a clue what they were looking at and wouldn't know they were hybrids either.


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

I did not mean I would ever promote hybrids, in fact, I agree it is terrible! I just mean that I like the colors is all.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Do you have any evidence that it is a hybrid? All I see is a very grainy cell phone pic that shows a blury tinc of somekind.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: Hybrid Alert? huge Powde*

Gotta love those zoo tanks. I went to my local zoo recently and in their tanks they had 2 frogs..that I could find anyway, a HUGE Powder Blue and a tiny scared shitless Auratus cowering in the corner.

John


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

*Re: Hybrid Alert? huge Powde*



Enlightened Rogue said:


> Gotta love those zoo tanks. I went to my local zoo recently and in their tanks they had 2 frogs..that I could find anyway, a HUGE Powder Blue and a tiny scared shitless Auratus cowering in the corner.
> 
> John


This is my bunk!


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Firawen said:


> "Poison Frogs: Biology, Species & Captive Husbandry" has a few pictures of hybrids. There is a neat picture of a leucomelasXauratus. I would post them but I don't think it's legal to take pictures of pages of a book and post them.
> 
> If you're interested I can get you a picture of a P. terribicolor tomorrow
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2


I think your aloud to post the pics as long as you give them credit and arent claiming them as your personal pics.


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

Here you go, straight out the book:


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## volcano23000 (Feb 22, 2012)

Oh.......and:


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

thats awesome!!!!! i've never seen those pics before. i love the zebra... how much are they going for?


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

See thats what I was talking about you didnt give neone credit now your a criminal.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It doesn't look like the few crosses between tinctorius and auratus that I've seen... (see for example Ed K)... 

I should note that within a zoo....they often discard the eggs from animals they don't want to rear once a protocol has been written up and established but if a tadpole does hatch out and is discovered by the keeper it typically has to be raised until a specific decision can be made on it's fate... this is often a low priority so it typically ends up being allowed to metamorph and be raised.. People don't realize that many zoos can treat an unwanted tadpole on the same level of attempting to decide if they are going to euthanize a unwanted baby gorilla (due to a contraception failure...)..... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

> Too bad hybrids are a bad thing....cuz that frog is freaking awesome!


Hybrids themselves aren't bad at all, its the creation and proliferation of hybrids in the hobby that we want to avoid.

Just saying.


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## Dave II (Dec 18, 2011)

I have seen mixed tanks at our aquarium(they have since separated them ) I think that zoos ect. Should be making a good example. Just my 2.


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## Sea-Agg09 (Feb 2, 2013)

As said before, most zoos or aquariums want a bunch of pretty colors to get people excited. I have seen one really amazing display, where it was a full circle, probably 8-10 feet in diameter. The circle was divided into 6 or 8 sections, each with a different species. It showed the color diversity, and kept people interested for quite a while. Sadly things like that cost major money, which most smaller facilities just don't have. 

If they are an AZA institution, they keep detailed logs of where their animals come from, be it wild or captive raising. Studbooking is only for certain species in an SSP (species survival plan). I don't believe any of the dendro-ish species are in that category, though some should. Even if they are not, AZA facilities are not allowed to sell their animals to the public, so if that is a hybrid, it's genetics will not get out. 

*Keep in mind*;
1. If the location is not AZA affiliated, then there are no regulations other than USDA and Health code (sanitation) for these places to go by. It's up the the ethical code of the people running the facility. 
2. The people who know/respect wildlife are not always (by that I mean usually lol) calling the shots. When the CEO walks through and doesn't like something, it's ganna get "fixed", whether the staff running the facility agree or not. 

If you see something that looks like a hybrid, or anything else you ethically object to, the best thing you can do is write a well-written formal email. Sometimes that's the swift kick they need to realize they are setting a bad example. Other times, in the case of my #2, a staff member needs to show that other people are concerned about an issue they have addressed in the past, and your email may help make the change.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

Ed said:


> It doesn't look like the few crosses between tinctorius and auratus that I've seen... (see for example Ed K)...
> Ed


The dorsal pattern looks similar on some, but the pattern on the legs is different. Maybe I should ask the zoo what it is.


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## n.riou (Dec 14, 2008)

Hello,

They really look like to azureusxauratus hybrids that I photographed in a zoo

Galerie Photo NOUVEAU ! - azureus x auratus


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

n.riou said:


> Hello,
> 
> They really look like to azureusxauratus hybrids that I photographed in a zoo
> 
> Galerie Photo NOUVEAU ! - azureus x auratus


Very similar indeed! That's probably what it is. Thanks!


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I think the point of any decent zoo, meaning not a petting zoo should be to display animals that are species. So I think that a zoo having hybrids is worse then a hobbyist. There is also the issue with them supposedly being educated on the creatures they are keeping. Its kind of like a preacher going to strip joint or something.


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