# My problem when feeding D. pumilio



## Guest (Feb 20, 2007)

Hi

I feed dusted fruit flies every feeding to my pumilio. I feed them every two days. I never see my frogs eat, but the fruit flies dissappear. However, during the day, the fruit flies have enough time to groom the supplements off. How do I give my frogs the supplements they need if they wait hours and hours (after Im gone I assume) till eating??

They are not like D. azuerus who eats as soon as I dump the flies in. With him its like my hand is a dinner bell. With my pumilio, my hand is a big ugly monster who wants to eat them. :evil: They do eat, they are fat and healthy after being with me for months. The female is active and I have seen here pic off a few, but its like they don't realize when the food arrives. The male hides all day and all night, I see him maybe every three days when he decides to become active in the open, he looks like he is active under the leaf litter.
Thanks.


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

Just something I just learned recently is that just because you can't see the supplement on the fly doesn't mean its not there. I believe and anyone else chime in as well that the supplement stays on the fly for a little longer then 24 hours.


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

It's fine. They're getting plenty of supplement with whatever flies they are eating. I personally dust at every feeding (every 2-3 days) because they do groom off many of the supplements. However, I also know of many long-time hobbyists who supplement no more than once a week and produce dozens of froglets a month. It's more of what makes *you* comfortable--we know supplementation is necessary, however the frequency of said supplementation is up to the keeper.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm not sure that every speck is cleaned off, but a significant portion of it is... you basically have to make up for it by dusting every time. Also, setting up a feeding routine would help... such as feeding after you mist, or after you do some particular action. I have had frogs conditioned to both... the particular action being adding a food bowl in the tank (even when feeding flies, this gets the frogs going crazy for food). With shier frogs I tend to get them used to feeding after misting, so I mist heavily, and then dump in food, and leave the tank alone. Often if I watch from nearby, they won't eat (unless they become used to being in a higher traffic area so my being around doesn't bother them) but if I leave them alone the chances of them eating is much greater.


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

KeroKero said:


> I'm not sure that every speck is cleaned off, but a significant portion of it is... you basically have to make up for it by dusting every time. Also, setting up a feeding routine would help... such as feeding after you mist, or after you do some particular action. I have had frogs conditioned to both... the particular action being adding a food bowl in the tank (even when feeding flies, this gets the frogs going crazy for food). With shier frogs I tend to get them used to feeding after misting, so I mist heavily, and then dump in food, and leave the tank alone. Often if I watch from nearby, they won't eat (unless they become used to being in a higher traffic area so my being around doesn't bother them) but if I leave them alone the chances of them eating is much greater.


I also have my frogs conditioned to eat after misting. In reality, I don't know that the misting "conditioning" is as much conditioning as it is a natural response to the misting. In the wild, frogs tend to become more active when it rains. Therefore, by misting we're just synthesizing a natural stimulus for a desired action. 

All in all, you should be able to encourage your pumilio to eat by misting before hand. yay!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

In the literature the grooming typically removes 100% of the dust within 12 hours.

Ed


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

_They are not like D. azuerus who eats as soon as I dump the flies in. With him its like my hand is a dinner bell. With my pumilio, my hand is a big ugly monster who wants to eat them. They do eat, they are fat and healthy after being with me for months. The female is active and I have seen here pic off a few, but its like they don't realize when the food arrives. The male hides all day and all night, I see him maybe every three days when he decides to become active in the open, he looks like he is active under the leaf litter. 
Thanks._

You know, I very rarely see my mantellas eat, and I very rarely see my female tricolor eat. My male tricolors also don't "catch on" like the tincs do either. However, I have had my tricolor and mantellas roughly three years and they are just fine.


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2007)

Thank you everyone! You all have given me some great information and stuff to think about. I mist everymorning. I suppose the best thing to do would be to feed right after that. Just not everyday.
My other thought was maybe they are too fat on springtails to care about fruit flies.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Cesar, 

I believe that springtails actually provide some calcium. Perhaps Ed can confirm this.

By the way, when did you get the azureus?


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2007)

I didn't, Im taking care of it for a friend.

Thats right, I think I heard that also, about the springs. Thanks for the reminder Chris. But still, they need their vitamins. If I could just get the to chase a flinstone vitamin. :lol: 
Do they even still make those?


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Humm… I don’t know. My daughter takes some other brand, which doesn’t use bovine gelatin. This is a no beef or venison house. I eat it outside the house but at home it’s strictly poultry, fish and tofu. :shock: 

As far as the frogs go, I’ve wondered about this myself. My leucs are out in the garage, so they don’t see me every day. I think that this may be the reason that they are so shy. Anyway,  when I feed they duck for cover. When I’m done the bolder one comes out and eats lots of flies. The shyer one stays hidden. The way that my viv is constructed makes it fairly dry, so the flies that don’t get eaten right away live a long time. This means that the frogs are often eating clean flies. So far things seem to be O.K. though. I’ve also reduced the number of flies that I feed. My frogs are getting too fat. This reduction in food may mean that there will be fewer flies left over to clean themselves off. I’ll have to keep an eye on the shyer one to make sure she doesn’t start go get skinny.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Frogs used to more heavy traffic areas will become "bolder", less disturbed by movement that becomes commonplace that they know won't mess with them. I've even got my super "shy" (actually just super skittish) zaparo hanging out and eating in front of me all the time. They got used to regular human traffic, and as long as I don't open the side of the lid or take a flying leap at the tank, they stay put. When food drops in the tank, they quickly return 

Bastis are very adaptable frogs, and take interaction with humans well, if they are used to it. Stick the tank in a higher traffic area, and they will be bolder. You'll also be more likely to see them eat in front of you, and have them more likely to eat the flies within the period where they still have significant dust on them.

As for the springtails, with many of the substrate dwelling critters, the calcium content is dependent on substrate... in soils with lots of calcium, the animals will have a bit of a higher calcium content. I don't know about you, but the way I culture my springtails, I don't see much calcium going their way... this is why pumilio juvies fed exclusively springtails still developed what was believed to be calcium issues, the food items were not dusted, or cultured in a way that they'd have high calcium content, and in theory caused a deficiency.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Anyone have any ideas on how to culture springtails so that they would be more calcium-rich?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

There was a thread about this recently where Ed talked about it a lot, I'd recommend trying to find it via search, unless Ed can jump in a give a direc


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Calcium enriching insects is difficult as the levels of calcium needed to modify the calciumhosphorus ratio of the feeder insect to acceptable levels (between 1 and 2 to 1) is typically in the range where it causes increased mortality in the feeder. Typically the insect needs to be offered the calcium rich diet only (as they will eat anything else) for at least 48 hours and then fed out before 72 hours as mortality rapidly increases at this point. With soil dwelling arthropods the higher calcium levels are typically the result of the ingestion of calcium rich soil when the insect is captured by the frog. 

Gut-loading springtails can be accomplished (see this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... springtail ) 

Ed


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2007)

Would it be possible to gut load springtails in the viv? My vivarium have a self sustaining and booming population of tropical springtails. I assumed until now, that they were surviving off the magnolia leaves, and other rotting vegetation I have in the tanks. If I put in, say some crushed coral, would that make a difference? Or am I still thinking the moon is made of cheese? THanks.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

When talking about gutloading this was originally coined to discuss increasing the calcium content of the feeders but has since been used to describe any diet that could in theory modify the nutritional content of the feeder insect (this has some serious issues)... 
However, as most feeder insects (there are some exceptions such as phoenix worms) avoid the calcium and the addition of the crushed coral won't change thier nutritional value. 
many soils are high enough in calcium which is the opposite of what we use in the terraria. 

Ed


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2007)

Grassypeak said:


> Cesar,
> 
> I believe that springtails actually provide some calcium. Perhaps Ed can confirm this.
> 
> By the way, when did you get the azureus?


Chris, see the following link  
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 935#192935


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