# Hydroton only as soil?



## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi guys so I was wondering if I could just use hydroton as soil in my tank?

Most plants i own do very well in just hydroton so I figured I could do the same thing in my dart frog vivs.

I've filled up about 4" of hydroton in my 50g.

I was fed up of dirt mixing in with hydroton over time so I'm wondering if I can just skip the dirt part altogether.

I've put a bunch of catappa leaves on the bottom of the tank to hide the hydroton and it looks pretty good.

Thoughts??


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## Urban Jungle (Oct 10, 2013)

Terrestial plants do good in hydroton when they are fed hydroponic plant nutrients; which don't belong in a frog vivarium.


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## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

Well the plants I have right now in hydroton aren't fed anything chemical. 
I just water them with fish tank water from my guppy tank.
They seem fine with it.

I would use the same method to "add nutrients" if they are really needed.

The plants I am talking about aren't that demanding (wall mart plants) and besides the tank has more broms who could care less about soil..

I should have formulated my question differently.

Are there any ill effects fro the frogs of having only hydroton and leaf litter on top?

Is soil mostly for plants and aesthetics?


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## thedanman13 (Sep 21, 2014)

Microfauna. Use soil.


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## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

I think its situation dependent. If you don't have small thumbnails or frogs that require very plentiful microfauna like springtails then it is fine for the frogs. I have a tank with some auratus set up with gravel and a lot of leaf litter on top, in fact enough leaf litter that I can always find springtails in the tank. I used a jungle pod filled with a mix of springtail culture and ABG substrate to introduce them and I leave it in there as a sort of reservoir for them. You can poke a small hole in the bottom of the seed pot to let it drain. They will eventually get a foothold in the leaf litter too, though you will not have as many as if you were using all ABG. Back to the frogs though, hydroton/gravel substrate is really easy to keep clean if you have a way to adequately drain your tank, you can just it down with a heavier than usual mist while draining it. They frogs will be fine if you give them enough food. Substrates like that last a long time, but with proper drainage so does ABG style substrate. Some of your terrestrial plants might get a little weak though so pick something hardy. Wrote this on my phone, sorry if there are errors.

Hopefully that is helpful. Thanks.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

Couple thoughts - Disclaimer: I'm just a beginner so take these with a grain of salt. One of the more experienced members might be able to weigh in.

1. I thought you're supposed to have the water in the false bottom separated from the plant roots so they don't rot. I think soil would give you an additional layer in between.

2. If the leaf litter is directly on top of the hydroton, I think it would break down a lot faster and the water might still get pretty gross.

3. You'd have to use an extra super thick layer of leaf litter to avoid the frogs getting through that to the hydroton.

4. Not sure about the idea of using aquarium water - I know the people on here mostly use distilled or reverse osmosis water to avoid introducing chemicals (esp. chlorine) that would be absorbed through the frog's skin. Not sure if you use chemicals in your aquarium, but there might be an additional issue there - there could be bacteria or other microbes from the fish you wouldn't want to introduce to the vivarium.

5. You said your reason for doing this was you were tired of soil getting in the false bottom - were you using a mesh barrier in between them already?

That's just my 2 cents.

Thanks,
Thane


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## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

Yes on the fish tank water topic, bad idea. When I have done this type of setup i use enough gravel/hrydroton so that there is a good inch of space between the water level and the top of the gravel substrate. Otherwise your leaf litter will be a mess. The frogs won't get hurt from touching the gravel though, just male sure there are no gaps or spaces for them to get stuck in.


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## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

And more importantly than the leaf litter bring a mess is the fact that your frogs would be sitting in it. Of there's is no space between the water level and the top of the substrate then the hydroton doesn't really count as drainage. I dont think anyone was suggesting doing that though.


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## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

Sorry phone typing "being a mess" not "bring a mess".


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## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

Guys so here's a little update.

The tank is for citronellas so microfauna is not an issue.

I don't think the fish tank water is a problem, how many of us have paludariums? its the same thing.
If your concerned, my tank is well established 2 year old amazonian tank with strains of platies and guppies I've created myself. 
Not any pet shop sick fish. I haven't bought a fish in a pet shop in ages..

I've put twice as much hydroton as I would of in a traditional "dirt" tank. The top of the hydroton isn't wet.

I was concerned about drainage for this tank because I couldn't drill a drain hole because of the glass. 
And I didnt want to have to deal with soggy soil because of that.


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

ChRoMiS said:


> The tank is for citronellas so microfauna is not an issue.


I'm confused, are you saying that because your frogs are citronellas they don't need microfauna? Microfauna is essential to the cleanliness of your vivarium, the springtails and isopods are going to break down the waste in the tank.



ChRoMiS said:


> I don't think the fish tank water is a problem, how many of us have paludariums? its the same thing.
> If your concerned, my tank is well established 2 year old amazonian tank with strains of platies and guppies I've created myself.
> Not any pet shop sick fish. I haven't bought a fish in a pet shop in ages..


Again, I don't really understand the rationale here...

I would hope that most people who have paludariums do their best to keep the water from saturating the substrate. I believe you mentioned using the fish water as fertilizer for your plants, to do that you need to pour the fish water over the substrate throughout the viv. I don't care where your fish come from, they have novel pathogens that could be completely harmless to them and deadly to your frogs. So in essence your dumping a bunch of stuff your frogs would normally never come into contact with _all over_ your tank.

My advice would be to go and get some turface and use that instead of hydroton. You'll see phenomenal microfauna growth and your plants will be happy. Not to mention it is dirt cheap if you can find it at an irrigation supply store. And stop using fish water as fertilizer, let the frogs handle the fertilizing for you.


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## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant as a food source for the cits. They will be present in the tank, I seed all my tanks but I am just not overly concerned about them.

And all I'm saying is a frog in a paludarium will come in contact with these patogens if it goes in the water source so what is the difference?

And I don't currently use fish water for my frog tanks it was more of an idea to replace chemical additives as the concern of terrestrial plants not doing so well in hydroton was brought up.

But if I was to use it, I would just fill the bottom of the tank with water, the plants could come in contact with it but not the frogs or the top layer of hydroton/leaf litter. I could use a PVC pipe to pour it in.
I would still mist with distilled water.


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## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

I just had the idea to put pots directly in the hydroton. 
So terrestrial plants would have the appropriate soil in their small pots.

+ I'm always changing my tanks so now I can modulate the tank by moving the pot around without messing up the tank.
Eventually I won't see the pots anymore once everything grows in.

I'm gonna try that. Will post progress if I have success.


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## SteveKnott (Feb 12, 2009)

ALL my frog breeding tanks are just hydroton and leaf litter. I did it originally so my terribilis wouldn't be eating things they shouldn't. 6 years later things are still going great. My displays have dirt for a more natural look.


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## dart345 (Jun 29, 2010)

I used a mesh screen on top my hydroton rocks then soil, My water never been an issue. Just need to make sure you have layers. First is my false bottom, then hydroton rocks, then mesh screen, then the soil, then the leaf litter. Soil never touches water and never falls into hydroton.


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## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

SteveKnott said:


> ALL my frog breeding tanks are just hydroton and leaf litter. I did it originally so my terribilis wouldn't be eating things they shouldn't. 6 years later things are still going great. My displays have dirt for a more natural look.


How are plants doing? can you keep every kind of plants in that way?


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## brendan0923 (Sep 15, 2014)

I would recommend ABG soil mix with plenty of leaf litter and microfauna such as springtails and isopods on top of the hydroton. This helps keep the substrate bioactive, therefore better for the plants, and also the microfauna serve as little janitors and a food source for the frogs. The leaf litter creates different layers, provides cover, and resembles their natural habitat.

Good luck!


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## subtera745 (Sep 30, 2013)

ABG is awesome. I'd recommend mixing your own so that way you'd have a good bit of it.


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## ChRoMiS (Aug 19, 2013)

So here is a little update, put in a couple of terrestrials.
Its been about 2 weeks. so far so good, I even see new growth.

Here are FTS of both sides.


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