# please help



## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

is he to skinny? what can i do to help him i feed him fruit flies and i've had him for about 2 months. this is him today
















here he was about 2 weeks ago


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Your frog looks extremely thin. Dangerously thin.

Are you dusting the fruit flies with supplements? If so, what type/brand?

You can try additionally feeding with springtails and fruit fly larva, to help fatten the frog up.

Do you have pictures of when you purchased the frog, if so can you share some so we can see what has changed?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Many, many times when frogs end up looking like this, there is more than one problem.
And very often there are environmental causes which means that the environment of the animal itself needs to be 'treated'. In other words changed.

These changes must be made even with special veterinary help. Veterinary treatment works hand in hand with an environment that can support the healthy life of the frog. A hospital env for the frog is often provided ( which you must learn to make too) while the frog is sick and it doubles as another location for the frog while changes are being made. This is usually a simpler, smaller environment with good hiding spots that the frog can remain stable, find food easily if eating and has the perfect amount of hydration.

There is a series of questions to answer in the health and disease section and including full pics of the environment is part of trying to see if anything can be done.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Maybe pictures of the full tank would help?


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

i gave him to a friend for 2 weeks while i was out of town, maybe the moving around stressed him out? i got him from a breeder and before then he seemed to have been doing fine.


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Your frog looks extremely thin. Dangerously thin.
> 
> Are you dusting the fruit flies with supplements? If so, what type/brand?
> 
> ...











this was the day i got him, yes i dust his fruit flies, with a zoomed brand,


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

blackcats said:


> View attachment 298352
> 
> this was the day i got him, yes i dust his fruit flies, with a zoomed brand,


I would switch to Repashy Cal+ immediately. I’ve used ZooMed and I didn’t notice any differences but yet again, I didn’t use it for a while.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

He looked to be on decent shape in that picture from when you got him.

I would recommend switching the supplements to repashy "calcium plus" it's an all in one supplement that works wonderfully for dart frogs.

Have you seen the frog eating? Does it eat the fruit flies?


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> He looked to be on decent shape in that picture from when you got him.
> 
> I would recommend switching the supplements to repashy "calcium plus" it's an all in one supplement that works wonderfully for dart frogs.
> 
> Have you seen the frog eating? Does it eat the fruit flies?


thank you, i just ordered the calcium, 

i have seen it eat a couple of flies but he doesnt really come out when i feed him yet i assume because i haven't had him to long he's still shy. i'm feeding him the cultures i took home with me from the breeder still but is there something other than fruit flies i can feed him that he might like more?


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

blackcats said:


> thank you, i just ordered the calcium,
> 
> i have seen it eat a couple of flies but he doesnt really come out when i feed him yet i assume because i haven't had him to long he's still shy. i'm feeding him the cultures i took home with me from the breeder still but is there something other than fruit flies i can feed him that he might like more?


I’d stick with fruit flies right now. If he doesn’t seem like he’s eating, I’d put him in a bin with substrate, leaf litter, a coconut hut, and a few plant cuttings. You can monitor him and see if he’s eating.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Like @Kmc asked, please cut and paste this into a reply, and answer all the questions:









Read before posting! Fill this out to help troubleshoot...


Answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste -- please don't quote because that makes it hard to read the responses): 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)? 2. What are your...




www.dendroboard.com





Also, give a timeline and details on the two weeks with a friend:

How long has passed since you got the frog back? 
Did you send it to the friend in its viv? If not, how was it housed?
What was the care like with your friend? 
What answers on the questionnaire would be different at your friend's house (misting, feeding, temps, etc)? 
Did the frog look thin when you got it back from the friend, or before, or only after you'd had it back for some time?

Also, and importantly: You've had the frog for two months and are still feeding from the original FF culture? FF cxs don't produce for two months.


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Like @Kmc asked, please cut and paste this into a reply, and answer all the questions:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just got the frog back today 
yes it was in its viv the whole time at their house
the same, i told them how to care for it, the only thing that might be different there is that it may have been a bit warmer
the frog was fine before i gave it to them i just noticed he looked skinny when he got back, and he usually moves around a lot more than she said he did

i brought home 3 fruit fly cultures, one that was already going and 2 that hadn't hatched yet and stuff to start my own.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

blackcats said:


> i brought home 3 fruit fly cultures, one that was already going and 2 that hadn't hatched yet and stuff to start my own.


So you've started your own? Just trying to track down the issue.

Do fill out those questions.


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> So you've started your own? Just trying to track down the issue.
> 
> Do fill out those questions.


yes i've started my own but they seem larger than the ones the breeder gave me so i just got a culture from petco today

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ?
green and black, Dendrobates auratus. he's about 9 months old, i got him from Krantz Frog Lounge on Feb 10

2. What are your temperatures (day and night - highs and lows) and how do you measure those temperatures? Does the vivarium have any supplemental heating, and if so, what type?
i have a thermostat on the side and the temp stays about 70-75 degrees 

3. What lighting is on the enclosure (brand, type, wattage) and does the lighting add heat to the vivarium? 
just an aquarium led light 

4. What is the Humidity like (percentage or guesstimate)? What type of water are you using? What is your misting procedure (automated or hand mister, how long and how often)? 
humidity i would say 80% i hand mist 3 times a day

5. Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top, and give details about the ventilation (how many vents, where are they positioned, how large are they).
it's an exo terra 12x12x18

6. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it? What superfine powdered supplements (brand and exact product name) are you using and are they fresh (i.e. how long has the container been open, and how is it stored)?
fruit flies 

7. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently? Tankmates / other frogs ?
no just the one frog 

8. Any type of behavior you would consider 'odd' ?
he just looks skinny i haven't had him back long enough to tell if he's behaving any different

9. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?
no


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

The frog is most obviously not eating properly and hasn't been for 2-3 weeks at least.

Are you dusting with every feeding? Have you seen it eat recently? Does it seem interested in food?

From the looks of it, I may suggest removing him from his current environment and putting him in a smaller hospital tank so you can watch and see if it eats and ensure it is being presented easy to catch food. Watch carefully and see if it has any issues when trying to catch and eat flies (hopefully it is trying!). That may indicate a Vit A deficiency, which can be addressed with supplements if it is eating.

A hospital tank can be something very simple, like a 6 QT plastic shoebox bin, lined with damp paper towel and a cocohut (if you have one) or some other structure to provide some security/shelter.

If at all possible, can you also post a image of your entire tank?


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

my friend said they didn't dust the flies before feeding, i think i'll leave him in his tank for a


Chris S said:


> The frog is most obviously not eating properly and hasn't been for 2-3 weeks at least.
> 
> Are you dusting with every feeding? Have you seen it eat recently? Does it seem interested in food?
> 
> ...


 my friend said they didn't dust the flies while they had the frog. i got him back yesterday and i went and bought the repashy and dusted the flies and put them in a dish in his tank before i went to bed. he didn't come out of his hut when i put them in but he could see them and in the morning they were all gone and he was moving around a bit so i think i will try the same thing again tonight before i move him into a hospital tank i just don't want to stress him out so much. thank you for your advice it's very helpful and i will try to post a pic of the tank soon


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

blackcats said:


> my friend said they didn't dust the flies before feeding, i think i'll leave him in his tank for a
> 
> my friend said they didn't dust the flies while they had the frog. i got him back yesterday and i went and bought the repashy and dusted the flies and put them in a dish in his tank before i went to bed. he didn't come out of his hut when i put them in but he could see them and in the morning they were all gone and he was moving around a bit so i think i will try the same thing again tonight before i move him into a hospital tank i just don't want to stress him out so much. thank you for your advice it's very helpful and i will try to post a pic of the tank soon


They are diurnal, so maybe add them in the morning for the frog to give him to day to eat them.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Chris S said:


> They are diurnal, so maybe add them in the morning for the frog to give him to day to eat them.


Usually, my frogs start calling at around 9:30 when I’m too lazy to turn on their lights. (I have a timer for all of my tanks except my SIs tank.) They’ll start up again at 3:30 and 8:00. After 9:00, they stop.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Having them collected is helpful but he cant really see them if the edge is above eye level. Especially if hes too weak to move about.

When it comes to day/night they're kind of like robots. They de activate pretty predictably.

It would also be stressful if he got in a dish of powdered flies and had trouble getting out after some effort with flies crawling over him he could really exhaust.

If hes used to finding that site perhaps sinking it in deeper could help. And a way to get out. A nice stable pebble. A grape sliced in half to help cluster the flies. Its ok if some get out.

As said before day is the time. The way i have helped guys like this is to be available to micromanage and know for sure whats happening but you must be unobtrusive. Quiet room, quiet care. Know what you are going to do and what you need on hand before you do it, to reduce disruption that can interfere with him eating.


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Having them collected is helpful but he cant really see them if the edge is above eye level. Especially if hes too weak to move about.
> 
> When it comes to day/night they're kind of like robots. They de activate pretty predictably.
> 
> ...


thank you for your advice, i did have it sunk down and thankfully he doesn't seem to weak he's been moving around and he came out and sat in the bowl after the flies were all gone. i will def feed him in the morning from now on. the dish is really shallow it's more like the size of a milk cap.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

He really needs help from a vet that can treat frogs but in the meantime i really think you should get a bottle of unflavored pedialyte. To keep it simple, Get a small new plastic cup and put a little in there and keep the bottle in the fridge once its opened. Let the pedialyte you plan on using get to room temp and when it is drop a little over his back and under his tummy and rear. Do this at evening and a couple times a day when hes not possibly interested in the dish of flies because you dont want him frightened by your hand. When you are at the drugstore getting the unflavored pedialyte also get a brand new eye dropper. They should have them.

Dont be inventive and try to warm the pedialyte. Just let it get to room temp.


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

Kmc said:


> He really needs help from a vet that can treat frogs but in the meantime i really think you should get a bottle of unflavored pedialyte. To keep it simple, Get a small new plastic cup and put a little in there and keep the bottle in the fridge once its opened. Let the pedialyte you plan on using get to room temp and when it is drop a little over his back and under his tummy and rear. Do this at evening and a couple times a day when hes not possibly interested in the dish of flies because you dont want him frightened by your hand. When you are at the drugstore getting the unflavored pedialyte also get a brand new eye dropper. They should have them.
> 
> Dont be inventive and try to warm the pedialyte. Just let it get to room temp.


okay thank you i will go out and get some today


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

If you choose carefully and find small plate or shallow wasabi dish and sink it in so its like an easy little puddle, its even better. The uptake is more complete. 

But it must be changed every few hours.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Just do the dropper first and see if he perks up a little.
Since time may be of essence a safe way of expediting the pedialyte use is to draw some from your Immediate Use Cup and close the dropper in your hand. It will knock the chill off in a couple minutes. Use when you feel that.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

For who ever may be interested and who finds themselves needing to give an injection to a herp with fridge required meds, closing the syringe for a few moments before same, alleviates one of the aversive features of a shot.


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## blackcats (Mar 27, 2021)

just in case anyone wanted an update he's doing fine now  even better than before, he comes out when i put the flies in his tank even. thank you all for your advice the new supliments really helped!


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