# 20h vert journal



## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

So I've been bitten by the vert bug as of late. The 10 gal vert thread I put up earlier was basically an experiment to get my feet wet in this arena. I had this 20 H housing a California king snake for the longest time and I kept staring at it, digging the dimensions more and more. The snake was vacated and I began construction after sterilization. You guys know the drill, ABG seperated from LECA by weed blocker. So let's dive in shall we?

Everybody knows what a 20 high looks like so here we are with tree fern gorilla glued to the back and sphagnum moss packed between the gaps. After reading that awesome 40 gal vert thread with the outward swinging door I decided to try it myself. 










Here's the Door attached via a 12" clear acrylic piano hinge from Josh's Frogs. Note around the edges of the glass I siliconed thin strips of glass to make up for the gap after I cut away part of the rim. Fairly easy process. I also gorilla glued an acrylic knob for easy opening. The vent I made from a screen I found then cut to size and spray painted. It was then retrofitted with tulle material (thanks Chrystal). Super fine mesh that's almost invisible.










I added two pieces of mopani wood. Word to the wise this stuff is VERY dense. It took me forever to saw through it in order to create a flat plain that I could gorilla glue to the sides. It's also heavy so be prepared to brace it in place with something. The big piece fell once which drove me insane since I must have held it in place by hand for 30 minutes or so. It helps to expose the piece to be glued with adhesive in place to the air for about 10 minutes. After that ordeal was over I added a nice two inches of magnolia leaves and seeded with a mixed culture of springs (thanks Mike!) and isopods.










After everything was set and I was happy with the humidity levels I mounted several miniature orchids. These include dinema polybulbon, epidendrum porpax, an unknown encyclia, restrepia trichoglossa, restrepia sanguinea, an unknown zootrophion, bulbophyllum medusae, and others. Notice the Arby's cup to brace that damn heavy piece of mopani lol.










After what seemed like forever, actually maybe 4 days, I received a package of bromeliads from Michaels. At Julio's advice (you're the man Julio) I asked for neoregelia 'andy ann' and four more that are like it in size and water holding ability. Michael said sure and put together a package of his choice of neoregelias. I received andy ann, angel face, royal burgundy x fireball, june night, and purple star x fireball. I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised. All of them hold a nice quantity of water. Here's what it looked like after mounted.










And the final result all put together.










Currently I have it cycling and doing the mold over thing. I looked under the leaves and there is a ton of springs and isos already so that's always nice. So tell me what you think. This will be a pumilio tank so the bromeliads are there to be utilitarian as well as aesthetic.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

I really like it but it seems like the wood could have come more towards the front to really allow the use of all of the depth of a 20 high. It seems a little like everything is crowded to the back.


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## laylow (Apr 6, 2009)

I agree. Think about adding wood or something so your frogs can utalize more of the space of tank. It's not to late, I'd consider wrapping the sillicone 2/3rds around each side. Otherwise, great leaf litter and broms!


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Great Job Ryan, glad you liked the broms!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I agree it looks incredibly cramped. Maybe mount some of the broms on the glass or right above the ground wood.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Vermfly said:


> I really like it but it seems like the wood could have come more towards the front to really allow the use of all of the depth of a 20 high. It seems a little like everything is crowded to the back.


I'll take a side shot today so you can see how far forward it actually comes. The big piece almost touches the door.



laylow said:


> I agree. Think about adding wood or something so your frogs can utalize more of the space of tank. It's not to late, I'd consider wrapping the sillicone 2/3rds around each side. Otherwise, great leaf litter and broms!


I wanted to minimize the visual barrier but I like that suggestion. During construction I considered doing something with the sides but the dimensions don't really allow for it. It would be a very narrow tank.



Mitch said:


> I agree it looks incredibly cramped. Maybe mount some of the broms on the glass or right above the ground wood.


That's an interesting Idea, maybe I'll see what I can do and rig something else to the walls.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

I do see that the wood does come out towards the front more than I thought.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Vermfly said:


> I do see that the wood does come out towards the front more than I thought.


After looking through the photos I realize why it looks so flat and pushed in the back. There's not a very good representation of depth. Photobucket wont let me upload right now. I took a side pic so you guys can see it's fairly full. The main reason I don't want to fill it too much is I don't want to end up like a lot of vivs I've seen in the past. 

Mitch your vivs look great so don't take this the wrong way, but you turned two 20H tanks into 10H with huge pieces of wood and great stuff. Also note that frogs prefer breeding in bromeliads that are tightly packed together and have overlapping leaves. After a while when yours pup you'll end up with this anyway. Unless you cut them of course.


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## jeffdart (May 21, 2008)

Looks great, sometimes what I like to do is set a piece of driftwood on the floor. Then place a brom on that, it will help give it more depth.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

fleshfrombone said:


> That's an interesting Idea, maybe I'll see what I can do and rig something else to the walls.


I like to take two suction cups with the rings on them (used for airline tubing in fish tanks) and tie fishing line between them. The fishing line holds the brom against the glass and is pretty stable. Pics are in my 20H thread.



fleshfrombone said:


> Mitch your vivs look great so don't take this the wrong way, but you turned two 20H tanks into 10H with huge pieces of wood and great stuff. Also note that frogs prefer breeding in bromeliads that are tightly packed together and have overlapping leaves. After a while when yours pup you'll end up with this anyway. Unless you cut them of course.


I'm still in the process of getting more broms to do this. Thanks for the suggestion though, I'm still new and I'm learning all I can.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Mitch said:


> I like to take two suction cups with the rings on them (used for airline tubing in fish tanks) and tie fishing line between them. The fishing line holds the brom against the glass and is pretty stable. Pics are in my 20H thread.


Yeah I saw that in your build journal. I really dug that design, very innovative. I have hardwood trees in the yard. I think I'll try to rig up something with them as I want to keep it as organic as possible.



Mitch said:


> I'm still in the process of getting more broms to do this. Thanks for the suggestion though, I'm still new and I'm learning all I can.


If you don't have a problem with green broms (which are actually turning red in my 10 gal vert btw) or the striped neo 'zoe' (which turn purple) you should be able to find them at home depot. Those 20 verts look great man, so take no offense. I'm trying to balance the maximum amount of usable space while keeping it ideal for frog breeding. You know what's wrong with your 20 verts right? You set the bar too high for yourself. Now we'll expect great things from you in the future.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

fleshfrombone said:


> If you don't have a problem with green broms (which are actually turning red in my 10 gal vert btw) or the striped neo 'zoe' (which turn purple) you should be able to find them at home depot. Those 20 verts look great man, so take no offense. I'm trying to balance the maximum amount of usable space while keeping it ideal for frog breeding. You know what's wrong with your 20 verts right? You set the bar too high for yourself. Now we'll expect great things from you in the future.


You're right about that. I tried to emulate some of the amazing tanks you see on here, and being a beginner it didn't really go as planned. I did make a few changes to the tank I'll be getting for the Imi's... I'll post pictures later.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Mitch said:


> You're right about that. I tried to emulate some of the amazing tanks you see on here, and being a beginner it didn't really go as planned. I did make a few changes to the tank I'll be getting for the Imi's... I'll post pictures later.


I think you're selling yourself short. You avoided a ton of pitfalls newbies get caught in. The whole thing looks very organic in that you avoided sharp angles and you didn't over plant. My only critique is the amount of great stuff. Other than that I wouldn't have guessed you were new at this.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Here's a couple pics that illustrate how far forward the plants and wood stick out. I realized before the depth of the pictures were misleading.

Left side









Right side


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Looks great, nice job on these! These pictures show the depth much better.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Looks to be an excellent breeder tank. Adding some moss to the branches might make them 'pop', too.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Thanks Mitch, yeah that's weird huh? I noticed the side shots make the tank look way wider that it really is too.

Good idea Susan, hopefully the sphagnum will come back.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

You can always have some of my moss and riccardia


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Nice viv, I really like the use of orchids.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Great looking tank... I love all those broms grouped together like that.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

fleshfrombone said:


> Thanks Mitch, yeah that's weird huh? I noticed the side shots make the tank look way wider that it really is too.
> 
> Good idea Susan, hopefully the sphagnum will come back.


I was thinking live green moss---like the kind I got from Alasdair. He's getting more in November.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

A little something on the ground would really tie it together... maybe a peperomia mini melons and a small begonia? once that grew in i think it would add a lot to the viv. What you have in there so far looks great though.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

earthfrog said:


> I was thinking live green moss---like the kind I got from Alasdair. He's getting more in November.


Would you happen to have a pic of what you received? 



tclipse said:


> A little something on the ground would really tie it together... maybe a peperomia mini melons and a small begonia? once that grew in i think it would add a lot to the viv. What you have in there so far looks great though.


I was actually trying to avoid just that. I may plant a little thicket of biophytums to tie it in but I was trying to recreate something you might see on a dry jungle floor. I'm personally none too fond of begonias in vivariums although the right peperomia might win me over to planting something on the ground. I'm glad you like it thus far.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

fleshfrombone said:


> Would you happen to have a pic of what you received?


Looks like this but more of a thick carpet. I don't think it gets very tall--maybe 1/2 an inch. It will die in shady spots--it needs to be as close to the top of the tank as possible. 

http://images.nationalgeographic.co...0/085/cache/orange-frog-moss_8597_600x450.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/103862535_3c009ba891.jpg


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Very cool, I'll look into that.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

New inhabitants arrived today. Started calling immediately.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

look great, they seem a little thin, guess they thin out after not eating for a day, best of luck.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Awesome! Fatten those guys up and get em breeding!


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## jeffdart (May 21, 2008)

Very Awesome! I am jealous as hell right now.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

AHHHHHH YEAAAAAH!!! NIce job Ryan.ME LIKEY. Next time you come over Ill send you home with those Biophytum seeds.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Julio said:


> look great, they seem a little thin, guess they thin out after not eating for a day, best of luck.


I made sure to feed them a ton of flies when they got done doing the explorer thing. You did a great job packaging them. Thanks again man, I really appreciate it. Have a great time in Peru! For those who like oophaga (and others) and don't know him, Julio is one legit dude. You really need to see his frogs in person to appreciate them. 



Mitch said:


> Awesome! Fatten those guys up and get em breeding!


That's the idea 



jeffdart said:


> Very Awesome! I am jealous as hell right now.


Thanks! Hopefully you won't be for too long, we need to do some trading. Thank you for your input on the creation of this viv.



frogparty said:


> AHHHHHH YEAAAAAH!!! NIce job Ryan.ME LIKEY. Next time you come over Ill send you home with those Biophytum seeds.


They are really cool man, and thank you. I really appreciate it Jason. How cool would it be to have a little forest of them in the background? BTW for those interested in orchids and other plants for that matter, or if you liked the orchids in this viv, you really need to hit ^this^ guy up. He sells quality plants for a great price and you (and I) know you can rely on his knowledge to get the right stuff. He's my personal Obi-Wan Kenobi of plants. Just be careful, orchid fever is contagious and he's definitely a carrier


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

fleshfrombone said:


> For those who like oophaga (and others) and don't know him, Julio is one legit dude.


Guess you don't know Julio too well  JUST KIDDIN haha


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

youre gonna make me blush. 

Im really stoked to work with thedude on his 90 gallon collaboration with you. Going to be a sweet project, and Im setting some plants aside for it already  DB northwest!


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

frogparty said:


> youre gonna make me blush.
> 
> Im really stoked to work with thedude on his 90 gallon collaboration with you. Going to be a sweet project, and Im setting some plants aside for it already  DB northwest!


Yeah he mentioned that, should be fun. NW represent, we're takin' over this b*tch.



ChrisK said:


> Guess you don't know Julio too well  JUST KIDDIN haha


I was wondering how long it would be before the infamous DB ninja would creep out of the darkness...


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## cheezus_2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

Beautiful frogs Ryan! tank looks amazing too man...


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

cheezus_2007 said:


> Beautiful frogs Ryan! tank looks amazing too man...


Thanks man! I sent off your package btw.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

So these guys seem to be really shy. Maybe I need to fill out this vert with some ground plants. I don't want to but if I ever want to see them aside from the odd occasion that they pop out of the leaf litter I better get cracking.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah they (and most pumilio actually) do best with tons of plants (the more broms the better too) and space


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> Yeah they (and most pumilio actually) do best with tons of plants (the more broms the better too) and space


They have been coming out more, two in particular. I saw a bunch of courting today so I'm hoping I see some eggs soon. Need to build another vert and remove the two that haven't paired up.


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

Tanks and Frogs look GREAT!!!! I'm with ya Ryan these frogs are great. I'm so surprised how bold my bjs are. To the extent of my imitators for sure.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Amazing tank! Those frogs sure are lucky!

What are the names of the broms in the right and left corners?


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

vivlover10 said:


> Amazing tank! Those frogs sure are lucky!
> 
> What are the names of the broms in the right and left corners?


Thanks bud! Neo andy anne and purple star x fireball. The andy anne is pretty compact but holds a TON of water.


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