# Mantellas vs Darts



## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm just curious, but why aren't mantellas as popular as darts?


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## packerfreak (Apr 23, 2013)

IMO darts look a lot better


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

packerfreak said:


> IMO darts look a lot better











I wholeheartedly disagree. DEM LEGS!

I think some reasons are that they are more temp sensitive, and they require a wet/dry season where they're not as active during the dry, which also makes them harder to breed?


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

hypostatic said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree. DEM LEGS!
> 
> I think some reasons are that they are more temp sensitive, and they require a wet/dry season where they're not as active during the dry, which also makes them harder to breed?


Yup, Those are awesome! I know I want some. But, a pic of my real dream mantella is below.

Blagh. I would have uploaded an actual pic from photobucket but my computer is being an idiot. *Initiating Default Plan:* Beep, beEp, bEEp, BEEP! *Link Activated.* 

Mantella expectata - Blue-legged Mantella


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## punctata (Jan 31, 2011)

Mantellas to me, look as good or better. I love them.


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## packerfreak (Apr 23, 2013)

hypostatic said:


> I wholeheartedly disagree. DEM LEGS!
> 
> I think some reasons are that they are more temp sensitive, and they require a wet/dry season where they're not as active during the dry, which also makes them harder to breed?


Don't make me pull up a picture of a Ranitoymea Reticulatus


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

packerfreak said:


> Don't make me pull up a picture of a Ranitoymea Reticulatus


We know. I've seen them in person. A truly stunning frog. We are trying to say that, sure, some mantellas aren't as pretty as darts, but others are VERY pretty. IMO, mantella baroni, M. expectata, M. madagascariensis, and a few others are as pretty as R. reticulata and other darts. Remember, I said IMO.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

frog dude said:


> Yup, Those are awesome! I know I want some. But, a pic of my real dream mantella is below.
> 
> Blagh. I would have uploaded an actual pic from photobucket but my computer is being an idiot. *Initiating Default Plan:* Beep, beEp, bEEp, BEEP! *Link Activated.*
> 
> Mantella expectata - Blue-legged Mantella


Well, here ya go!


















Aaaand here's an albino expectata:


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I also really like cowani:









And the red aurantiaca is breathtaking:


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## daggekko (Jun 27, 2011)

I like them both. Darts are a lot easier to get though. It has been a long time since I've had a bunch of Mantellas(like 11-12 years) and back at that time it was hard to get any good info on them. Does anyone know if CB Mantellas are more temperature tolerant(heat wise)? 

Hey packerfreak-here you go!

jan2013 045 by daggekko, on Flickr

And for the people still scratching their heads about Mantellas -

002 (3) by daggekko, on Flickr


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

hypostatic said:


> I also really like cowani:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, cowani is amazing. Red Aurantiaca, amazing-er! If I had to choose any two mantellas to get, it would be M. expectata and M. aurantica red.


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Too bad Cowani is almost extinct and almost impossible to find CB .

D


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Dendroguy said:


> Too bad Cowani is almost extinct and almost impossible to find CB .
> 
> D


Yup. That's always a bummer.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Personally I think Mantellas are way underated.I have goldens and crocea currently and would consider cowani,expectata,mylos,and a couple of others.Don't get me wrong I have a lot of gorgeous darts too but your comparing apples and oranges,both taste good but they are all personal preferences.I like both


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

oddlot said:


> Personally I think Mantellas are way underated.I have goldens and crocea currently and would consider cowani,expectata,mylos,and a couple of others.Don't get me wrong I have a lot of gorgeous darts too but your comparing apples and oranges,both taste good but they are all personal preferences.I like both


Yeah, I definitely agree. Take geckos for example; crested geckos and day geckos. Both are very, very cool, both are popular. But yet, they look very different. Different sizes, colors, and body shape. What's your favorite of the two? Once again, It's a personal preferences. My personal preference is I like them both also


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Dendroguy said:


> Too bad Cowani is almost extinct and almost impossible to find CB .
> 
> D


There might still be a few out there...or at least there was and some breeding a few years ago. I haven't been in touch with or seen that guy around the board in a while though, so I don't know what is going on with them.


*For the person who asked about temp tolerance...*
It has been awhile since I kept or read up on them but If I remember correctly they generally have less tolerance to heat, and In fact I lost my group of blushing mantella to heat one summer when we had a brown out, while most if not all my darts made it through that one. 

My parents broke into my house to clean and rearrange stuff (because they are psycho like that) and put the tank on a high shelf and it didn't click in my head that that height/temp difference would be enough to put them in danger...but apparently the couple extra degrees closer to the ceiling was enough to make the difference ;(

I think aurantiaca especially had a tolerance for colder  temps then most if not all darts and some mantella...like 50's, maybe even short periods in the 40's? ...don't quote me on the 40's though. In general though I think the excepted temp range for most if not all mantella was at least slightly lower then most darts. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

I was really hoping my Aurantiaca group would survive the ice storm disaster that wiped out most of my frog/gecko collection (except the few I could find and stash in a couple tanks next to my parents fireplace for a week). I thought if any could make it through it would be them, but alas no power and temps under 30f for a week straight are to much even for the mighty aurantiaca  (Dang $5 newts and fire bellied toad made though)

*As for their popularity vs darts...*
I like both, but I think darts offer more in size, color and pattern. There is basically something for everyone...several somethings usually, so that makes getting into them in a major way easier overall I think. Also I think they have proven to be a bit more suited for captivity. They seem to overall breed easier and be more tolerant of mistakes by beginners (IMO). We just don't have the multiple CB generations of Mantella that we do for darts...thus while a fairly hardy animal when they come in in decent condition they aren't quite as high on the survivability scale as many darts people would encounter at a show or for sale online.

Also if you like Red and Blue which are two very popular colors in the dart frog world, there isn't much mantella wise for you... Most aurantiaca are yellow or orange...very few exist at least in captivity that have that "Ruby" red that you've seen in some pics (some are real, some are doctored probably) or at least seem to maintain it once in captivity or beyond a generation or two (don't quote me on that because I'm mostly just assuming. I never had direct experience with the really really red ones)

Blushing had some touches of red, and Expecta have some blue (legs would sometimes change color based on mood and/or environmental parameters), and some others I think have blue on the bellies...and there were some rare morphs or oddballs out there that were kinda flashy, but mostly you were dealing with green, yellow, gold, orange, brown, and black... 

I think a lot of people would opt for a Blue Azureus over most mantella...just because they are larger and flashier by many, if not most people's standards. Doesn't mean people hated the mantella...just perhaps it wasn't their first choice and not everyone collects frogs like pokemon (like some of us do...or would if we could afford it) 

I remember when I first got into the hobby even at our crappy local show the first time or two I went there were a bunch of cowanii...I wasn't a huge fan of orange, still am not...but man I'm kicking myself that I didn't get those when I had the chance 

*IF* I had the tank space and the funds, I would dedicate tanks to every mantella species/morph that currently (or ever did) exist in captivity...In fact if anyone wants to send me some for free I will find or make room. 

I would keep and breed all of them just to help be sure they remained in the hobby and existed for future people to enjoy, but frankly overall I prefer darts (and CB animals while many mantella are WC) so mostly my money and tank space goes to them first. 

I do hope to add milotympanum, expecta, blushing, and aurantiaca back into my collection at some point...maybe more if I have the space and can afford it and they are still available. It is sad that we still don't have good CB populations of any or at least most mantella to satisfy the hobby demand, while the wild populations are in so much peril over there from deforestation and what not. 

They kinda seem to exist in a weird spot...there is enough demand/popularity to justify continuing to export/import them when it is allowed but not enough serious froggers into them and doing well enough with or create the demand for them to get them really well established in the hobby like Azureus or many other darts.

At one time (pre ice storm disaster), I had Milos, expecta, blushing, betsileo, aurantiaca, and viridis. I miss my mantella


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

My favorite of the two would be day geckos......


Seriously though,Man,that's just too hard.On one hand I have escudos,retics,blue jeans and a bunch of others,so darts kick a$$.On the other hand mantellas are big bold and call all the time as well as being very colorful too.I guess if I had to pick.....it would be a tie I think another reason why darts will have an edge in most peoples eyes are because of the sheer number of different darts available.Mantellas only come from one small place so the numbers a limited.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Hey dave my goldens are pretty red.I'll have to try and post some pics.Captive bred Mantellas are more tolerant of the temps than wc,but it is still an issue with them too.Both of my groups are fat and hopefully ready to drop some eggs soon,we'll see.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

oddlot said:


> Hey dave my goldens are pretty red.I'll have to try and post some pics.Captive bred Mantellas are more tolerant of the temps than wc,but it is still an issue with them too.Both of my groups are fat and hopefully ready to drop some eggs soon,we'll see.


Cool  I've heard/seen a few out there that were pretty red...and heard of one guy at least who had what would probably qualify as true "ruby mantella". Anyone who has been really into mantella over the years or is inclined to dig through the search function can probably find his name but I generally don't like handing out that info unless I've been in recent contact and am fairly sure it it is cool to name names.

I remember there was one import batch on KS a few years back that seemed to have more red then most of the others that had come in over the years. There were some green milos, maybe even some blue/greens floating around too I think.

They were cool frogs, I had some calling and might have been about to get some action before that stupid storm came a long ;(


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I guess you would consider mine between orange and the rubys ,but on the red side.It goes without saying that if I could find some true rubys, I'd sell something to get them.I have some yellower ones too.I tried to take some pics but the batteries are dead.I'm charging them ,so either tonight or more than likely tomorrow I'll take some pics.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

The first pic is of the redder girl,which is redder than in the pic.The second is of an orange female that is also a little redder in person.The third is of a yellow male.



























I'd still like to get some of the true rubys if there were any available.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

> Also if you like Red and Blue which are two very popular colors in the dart frog world, there isn't much mantella wise for you... Most aurantiaca are yellow or orange...very few exist at least in captivity that have that "Ruby" red that you've seen in some pics (some are real, some are doctored probably) or at least seem to maintain it once in captivity or beyond a generation or two (don't quote me on that because I'm mostly just assuming. I never had direct experience with the really really red ones)


Have you flipped mantellas over before?

Most species of mantella have blue spots on their bellies-- viridis, ebenaui, expectata, cowani, nigricans, baroni, mads, pulchra. You also have red / orange flashmarks on crocea, baroni, mads, and pulchra.

However, there are what, 70 species of dart frogs and only about 10-15 mantella species. But, most dart frogs aren't in as much trouble in the wild compared to mantellas. Madagascar is very different conservation wise than the amazon.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Rain_Frog said:


> Have you flipped mantellas over before?
> 
> Most species of mantella have blue spots on their bellies-- viridis, ebenaui, expectata, cowani, nigricans, baroni, mads, pulchra. You also have red / orange flashmarks on crocea, baroni, mads, and pulchra.
> 
> However, there are what, 70 species of dart frogs and only about 10-15 mantella species. But, most dart frogs aren't in as much trouble in the wild compared to mantellas. Madagascar is very different conservation wise than the amazon.


Yep that's the blue on the belly mention  ...You're right though, I forgot about some of the flashmarks...the problem is they are kinda subtle/hidden compared to darts, or you only get a good look when they are plastered up against the glass. You don't have to convince me they are awesome though...I miss mine ;(


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Very nice! Amazing colors.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

oddlot said:


> The first pic is of the redder girl,which is redder than in the pic.The second is of an orange female that is also a little redder in person.The third is of a yellow male.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are nice...I don't think I had any that were as red/orange as your top one...mine were more like the middle one.

My milos on the other hand were almost as orange as your top pic looks (at least on my monitor). I liked their "ears" and textured skin too...I think they were slightly more my favorite then the goldens...It was close though. Blushing and Expecta were probably my 2 favorite mantella overall...except for the true rubies, and maybe a blue green milo morph I think I saw. I can't find pics on google image. I can't remember if it was an aberrant green milo or another morph....

If anyone has pics of the rarer morphs/species of mantella or aberrant ones, It has been a long time since I've seen what was out there...can you post em?


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

We got our first mantella group this year (aurantiaca), from UE, because I thought they looked great. 

We liked them so much that since then we got a group of laevigata & a group of crocea. And we will have the viridis soon too.

The laevigata are a bit shy, but the crocea and the aurantiaca are always out, we REALLY like them a lot.  They are very, very bold.

Personally, I like them as much as the darts, I think they are an awesome frog to have.

Marta


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Dendrobati said:


> We got our first mantella group this year (aurantiaca), from UE, because I thought they looked great.
> 
> We liked them so much that since then we got a group of laevigata & a group of crocea. And we will have the viridis soon too.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. Too bad that mantellas are more sensitive to high temps than dartfrogs!


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

rigel10 said:


> I agree with you. Too bad that mantellas are more sensitive to high temps than dartfrogs!


Actually, we keep ours at the same temperatures as darts. The only exception is the aurantiaca, we keep those in front of the air conditioner.

Marta


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Yeah, too bad that aurantiaca is my favorite (with Mantella cowani)! But here temps are impossible to breed them! Maybe in the basement...


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

rigel10 said:


> I agree with you. Too bad that mantellas are more sensitive to high temps than dartfrogs!


One option is to keep the tank on the floor, or very close to it...There is typically a difference of a few degrees from Floor to chest/head height, which may be enough for someone to meet the acceptable temp range. Best if you can put it someplace pets/kids won't mess with it, or build a canopy that discourages (Locks?), or can stand up to that kind of attention. 

I generally kept my around dart temps... I just tried to make sure the lights were raise off the glass, or the tank was tall enough there would be a layer of cool air near the bottom to shave a few degrees off my average temps. The goldens were on the floor though where it was cooler.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I have my anthonyi Highland on the floor, but here where I live is very, very hot. In recent days we have had temps around 100F outside, so my choice for "obligate" is almost obligatory (pardon the pun).


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

rigel10 said:


> I have my anthonyi Highland on the floor, but here where I live is very, very hot. In recent days we have had temps around 100F outside, so my choice for "obligate" is almost obligatory (pardon the pun).


In Oklahoma our summers routinely hit 100f+ temps. Do you have reliable air conditioning? If so you can just set your home temp a few degrees cooler, and pay a little extra on your bill (if you can afford it).


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

I really appreciate the info guys. You have more than answered my stupid question lol. For those of you who own mantellas and darts besides the the lower temps are mantellas similiar in behavior as darts? Is there husbandry similiar?


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

@Dendro Dave: I don’t have A/C. (Here electricity is very expensive!) I live in Puglia, Italy, at 1856 ft above sea level in a windy place, so I just open doors and windows: the air flow cools the house. Last summer we had about three months of heat greater than 100F: lights off and fans on. No frog lost, but goodbye orchids!


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