# Split from 'What have you got blooming?'



## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

Awhile back I bought a couple of Tillandsia assortments off of ebay because they were cheap and had a lot of variety.

As I was building 40 tanks, I figured this was a fast cheap way to populate the tanks with some green.

Imagine my surprise to find a Tillandsia explosion going on, and I did not even realize it was happening until yesterday when I though a plant looked way bigger than what I planted, only to see it's two plants now. 

Looking around I find I have more than a couple dozen Tillandsia's that have "multiplied" on me, in tanks I look at daily, but never noticed.


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## Dawagner (Jan 19, 2010)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

I was wondering what do you all do for your lighting times in your tanks to get your orchids/broms to bloom do you have to adjust the timing schedule to match actual(or close) sunrise and sunset times?? Will they get "confused" and not bloom if you keep your tank on a straight 12/12 lighting cycle. Just wondering as I am new to the planted terrarium set up. Thanks in advance for your help


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

12/12 is just fine. I atually fin that as far as my orchids go, its more a seasonal fluctuation of max temps in the vivs that triggers blooming.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*



Dawagner said:


> I was wondering what do you all do for your lighting times in your tanks to get your orchids/broms to bloom do you have to adjust the timing schedule to match actual(or close) sunrise and sunset times?? Will they get "confused" and not bloom if you keep your tank on a straight 12/12 lighting cycle. Just wondering as I am new to the planted terrarium set up. Thanks in advance for your help



MY frog room faces the morning sun. I turn lights on about a hour or two after the sun has come up.

In the evening, I turn off the main lights, leaving the room lights on, and fading out by 8pm.

I've got Broms and Tillandsia multiplying like mad.


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## brooklyndartfrogs (Nov 19, 2005)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

Sorry to disagree but for the most part it's definitely better to adjust your lighting schedule to the seasons to promote better growth and blooming as well as temp fluctuations.
Andy


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

you really notice a marked difference in blooming? all my orchids bloom at least once a year, some bloom continuously, and all that changes is temp. I find temp fluctuations to be rapid promoters of blooming, or the end of blooming in the case of some of my pleuros(like P. allenii)


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

I am going to agree with Brooklyn Dart on this one. Here's why: Of course, it is true that tropical climates do not see as much seasonal fluctuation in photoperiod. But I have found that plants _and_ animals seem to do better--that is, live longer--if there is some seasonality in my house. I know this because my pets and all my *tropical* plants seem to respond to increasing daylength in the Spring--including the ones growing in windows!

Bear in mind, all lights do provide some heat. So, I go 12/12 in winter, 13/11 in Spring-Fall, 14-10 in the summer. I do not gorw any cool growers; my tanks are too warm; My Hatiora never blooms; My angraecoids do, but I grow them a bit drier in the winter. 

However, to me it seems that a bit of a winter cool-down and shorter photoperiod allows the organisms to rest a bit--and it certainly stimulates behavior in the Spring.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

I dunno... Most of our plants are equatorial where day/light cycles are relatively consistent. I had this discussion on a Hoya forum once. I've got plants in the greenhouse that bloom all year and others that no matter what I do, bloom at the same time every year consistently. I've not changed my light schedule in the vivs ever and I see no marked decline in any plants and I still get blooms from Gesneriads and Orchids alike.

Makes you wonder if the plants know whats going on outside no matter what you do...


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

My thoughts too. Ambient lighting in the room changes depending on sunup sundown schedule naturally, and the frogs at least definitely react to that, but it just seems extraneous to me to constantly change the timer 
Just goes to show theres more than 1 way to do things successfully in this hobby


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*

With a broad selection of plants, there are many reasons they flower and photo period would be just one and not likely for those that are found near the equator. Many flower in reaction to wet and dry seasons while others based on time of year and temperature. Unless you know the basis for each one it doesn't make much sense to me to adjust just one factor. There are many you are not adjusting. I think I would base my lighting and water cycles on what the particular animal needs as opposed to the plants.


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*



harrywitmore said:


> With a broad selection of plants, there are many reasons they flower and photo period would be just one and not likely for those that are found near the equator. Many flower in reaction to wet and dry seasons while others based on time of year and temperature. Unless you know the basis for each one it doesn't make much sense to me to adjust just one factor. There are many you are not adjusting. I think I would base my lighting and water cycles on what the particular animal needs as opposed to the plants.


I completely agree with Harry. Growth and flowering of equatorial plants are stimulated by season changes which are wet/dry and temp. The farther you get away from the equator the more light has an effect.
I have seen where changes in light can support flowering and growth if the plant has been growing in too low light to support good growth. The additional light inproves growth and enables flowering if the seasonal requirements are met.


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## brooklyndartfrogs (Nov 19, 2005)

I can't remember the exact Company that I got this from but it was a well known orchid grower some years back.

The schedule for artificial lighting of orchids:

January (mid) - 12 hours
February - 13 hours
March - 14 hours
April through August - 14-16 hours
September - 13 hours
October - 12 Hours
November (mid) - 11 hours 45 minutes
December - 11 hours 45 minutes 

Andy


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## Dawagner (Jan 19, 2010)

*Re: 'Tis the season--What have you got blooming?*



Frogtofall said:


> Makes you wonder if the plants know whats going on outside no matter what you do...


That's what was wondering about. I have two orchids in the tank and if they were the free flowering throughout the year variety I wouldn't have been thinking about this but they supposedly only bloom during a certain season. It prolly is a variety of factors like Harry mentioned. And I too have seen that artificial lighting schedule one some orchid site. 

I would assume though it is prolly better to at least semi follow the natural sun cycle (have lights go on around sunup and off around sundown +- hr or so) due to the ambient light the room is getting so they don't end up getting light for like 15 hrs if you were to have the tank lights go on at around 11am and off at 11pm like how i have on my Saltwater reef tank primarily so i can view it when i'm home from work for a while.

(terrible run-on sentence i know)


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I would look more into a changing of light cycles if Iwas having trouble breeding or flowering plants.
My leucs breed seasonally with constant viv timer schedule based on max temp achieved. I know that when my temps drop to the low 70s in winter they stop, and as soon as temps start hitting 78 they fire back up again. 
The imis I havent had long enough to know whether I can stop them breeding with a change in light or if a different misting pattern would work better.
I have several orchids in vivs-constant light cycle- that I also have in windows-varied seasonal- and THEY BLOOM AT THE SAME TIME. Leading me to think that varying my viv light cycle isnt super important. There may come a day when I start working with a plant that won't perform under these conditions and then Ill try switching up the light cycles


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## brooklyndartfrogs (Nov 19, 2005)

frogparty said:


> I would look more into a changing of light cycles if Iwas having trouble breeding or flowering plants.
> My leucs breed seasonally with constant viv timer schedule based on max temp achieved. I know that when my temps drop to the low 70s in winter they stop, and as soon as temps start hitting 78 they fire back up again.
> The imis I havent had long enough to know whether I can stop them breeding with a change in light or if a different misting pattern would work better.
> I have several orchids in vivs-constant light cycle- that I also have in windows-varied seasonal- and THEY BLOOM AT THE SAME TIME. Leading me to think that varying my viv light cycle isnt super important. There may come a day when I start working with a plant that won't perform under these conditions and then Ill try switching up the light cycles


Yeah but wasn't the whole point of this topic about the flowering of orchids?
I agree that if you don't care about the flowers and good growth than most certainly do not change the cycles.
Andy


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

We should also remember that many plants (orchids included) will also bloom when they are stressed or on the verge of death.

Too many factors here. Yikes!


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

> Yeah but wasn't the whole point of this topic about the flowering of orchids? I agree that if you don't care about the flowers and good growth than most certainly do not change the cycles.


I think the point is that the triggering mechanism for flowering orchids is very poorly understood for most species. Among very knowledgeable orchid growers there is always disagreement on what triggers one to flower. I was just reading one the other day between 2 very respected growers. One said a particular species had to have cool conditions to flower and the other said it had to have warm conditions to flower. 

Changing lighting cycles may work for a few but is definitely not going to work for all. Many Pleuros flower almost constantly and some only flower when a significant drop in temeprature is available at night. So, if you are dealing with a few orchids and you know that the lighting cycle is the key, then by all means, change it, but don't assume it works for the vast majority. I think you can have good growth and flowers by not ever changing lighting. Heck many orchid species are nearly impossible to flower no matter what you do. I have lots of Bulbos and although they get different light cycles since they are in a greenhouse, most never flower for me. I think my problem is intensity but I really don't know.

As Antone said there are just WAY to many factors to be able to apply one standard to all.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

every orchid I have in vivs is a consistent bloomer Andy, thats wha Im saying. If I had an orchid that DID NOT flower for mein a vi, I would consider changing things up to see if it worked. 

Antone- I understand that stressed or dying orchids may bloom in a last ditch effort to save their genes before they die, but orchids constantly growing and blooming, often both at once, can be considerd happy, yes? 
I bloom plenty of "not so easy" orchids in vivs, and I honestly think its the easiest way to bloom pleurothallids. 
I bloom Pleurothalis, Dracula, Dendrobium, Bulbophylum, Cirrhopetalum, Restrepia, Masdevalia, Oncidium and Rhynchopera in vivs on a constant 14 hour light cycle. Everyone a bloomer.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

frogparty said:


> every orchid I have in vivs is a consistent bloomer Andy, thats wha Im saying. If I had an orchid that DID NOT flower for mein a vi, I would consider changing things up to see if it worked.
> 
> Antone- I understand that stressed or dying orchids may bloom in a last ditch effort to save their genes before they die, but orchids constantly growing and blooming, often both at once, can be considerd happy, yes?
> I bloom plenty of "not so easy" orchids in vivs, and I honestly think its the easiest way to bloom pleurothallids.
> I bloom Pleurothalis, Dracula, Dendrobium, Bulbophylum, Cirrhopetalum, Restrepia, Masdevalia, Oncidium and Rhynchopera in vivs on a constant 14 hour light cycle. Everyone a bloomer.


How many ft. candles of lighting, would you be using?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

it differs depending on what viv the plants are in.
let me work out the foot candles to lumens ratio and get back to you.
the 32 hex gets 4800 lumens 
the 16 vert gets 3200 lmens 
the 10 gets 1600 lumens

so if a footcandle is 1 lumen per sq ft
then the 32 hex has 1.8 sq feet of floor space gets 2,666.67 footcandles
the 16 vert, at 1.25 sq ft of floor space gets 2,560 footcandles

doI have to factor distance from light tofloor in there somewhere?

All lighting is 6500K cfl, and obviously not all plants are equal dstance from lights


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

frogparty, I'm not sure why you asked me that but I will agree that would be a good description of a healthy plant. Haha. I was just saying that in addition to what everyone has said so far, stressed plants also bloom.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I guess all I really want is for people to not get discouraged by thinking orchids are more complex and difficult than they really are to keep in vivs. I would love to see more people try out more species, and think that more peole would try them in general if there wasn't this preconcieved notion that they aernt skilled enough with plants to try them.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

frogparty said:


> I guess all I really want is for people to not get discouraged by thinking orchids are more complex and difficult than they really are to keep in vivs. I would love to see more people try out more species, and think that more peole would try them in general if there wasn't this preconcieved notion that they aernt skilled enough with plants to try them.


Thanks for the info, on the lighting. 

I agree, that you don't need a ton of skill to grow Orchids. At least the ones we have. Mostly Bulbo's. We're new to Orchids and haven't killed one yet. A couple have bloomed for us as well


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## brooklyndartfrogs (Nov 19, 2005)

frogparty said:


> I guess all I really want is for people to not get discouraged by thinking orchids are more complex and difficult than they really are to keep in vivs. I would love to see more people try out more species, and think that more peole would try them in general if there wasn't this preconcieved notion that they aernt skilled enough with plants to try them.


Agreed I think that's the case even with people wanting to grow orchids in their home, I come across that very often and the question usually is about the difficulty factor/skill level. When I first got into orchids 25 or so years ago I had 300 different types of orchids in my apartment and all were grown on windowsills! Not all were easy/common types, lots of Pleurothallids and minis and I got regular flowering from most if not all!
Andy


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## andrew__ (Sep 23, 2007)

There are also orchids that will not bloom without a winter rest (many Dendrobiums) and many orchids which need an increase in light over the winter (because they grow on deciduous trees), along with less water and cooler temperatures (Neofinetia).

It's not reasonable to try to group all orchids together with the same care about seasonal light (day length & light intensity) and moisture etc. I do think that temperature and water are likely more important than light for most species, provided that there is enough of it.

Sure don't discourage people but at the same time there are some orchids that are very tricky plants to keep happy.

It's a question of knowing what you can grow and then grow it. If you're looking for a list of plants that can take and bloom well with consistent light, water and temperature year round in a terrarium then you'll find a list of plants that will be easy for you, plants for a dry window sill that may get large swings in light and temperature will be a completely different list of plants but might be equally easy, just suited to a different environment, and it's important to know what you can offer the plants and what your plants need.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

many of the dendrobiums you speak of are much too big for standard viv conditions, while many of the minis do great. Im not trying to lump everything together, but just want people not to get discouraged. Personal research int the specific care of ANYTHING you plan on keeping is important, and finding things that will work with what youve got is KEY TO SUCCESS. Since Im in the orchid hobby, I often see peole trying to make things much much much more complicated than they are, when a K.I.S.S approach coupled with a few seasonal changes works great. And since theres such a wealth of info here and othe places about suitable viv orchids, I really think trying to discourage people from trying is NOT beneficial.


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