# why remove tads



## glass frog (Dec 19, 2011)

Why is it most people remove tads don't they hatch fine in the viv. i understand once the get older the might get killed in a territory battle but the parents take care of them till they leave the water don't they?


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

It depends on the species of frog. Obligate egg feeders (Oophaga species) are almost always left with the parents because the tadpoles need infertile eggs from the female. Other species, such as imitators, will feed tadpoles but the tadpoles can be raised artificially without problems. Dendrobates species, like tinctorius, do not engage in parental care other than transporting the tadpoles. People pull tads for a variety of reasons, including increased production. If you pull tads/eggs instead of letting the parents raise them (with imitators, for example), the breeders will continue to lay more eggs rather than care for the tads. For frogs that don't feed their tadpoles, it's easier to monitor and feed the tads outside of the viv in a controlled environment, make sure they get the right types of food, and prevent cannibalism.
In general, pulling tads usually is a better chance for more froglets and less problems in the tadpoles stage. 
Bryan


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## patm (Mar 21, 2004)

Generally, the removal of eggs/tads is to encourage the adults to continue producing eggs. When they are taking care of a clutch themselves they won't continue to produce fertile eggs while doing so. By pulling, you are able to raise up a greater number of offspring than the parents would.

Pat

Edit: Beat me to it Bryan!


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## glass frog (Dec 19, 2011)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> It depends on the species of frog. Obligate egg feeders (Oophaga species) are almost always left with the parents because the tadpoles need infertile eggs from the female. Other species, such as imitators, will feed tadpoles but the tadpoles can be raised artificially without problems. Dendrobates species, like tinctorius, do not engage in parental care other than transporting the tadpoles. People pull tads for a variety of reasons, including increased production. If you pull tads/eggs instead of letting the parents raise them (with imitators, for example), the breeders will continue to lay more eggs rather than care for the tads. For frogs that don't feed their tadpoles, it's easier to monitor and feed the tads outside of the viv in a controlled environment, make sure they get the right types of food, and prevent cannibalism.
> In general, pulling tads usually is a better chance for more froglets and less problems in the tadpoles stage.
> Bryan


ok so being new when i get frogs and i just want to enjoy them it is ok to leave the tads in but later when i want froglets to sell trade or enjoy pull them out?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

glass frog said:


> ok so being new when i get frogs and i just want to enjoy them it is ok to leave the tads in but later when i want froglets to sell trade or enjoy pull them out?


Yes, that is absolutely fine. Some would prefer to up their production at times to increase their offpring for trades or sale. Others prefer to enjoy watching the parents raise their own babies. Either way is fine and you won't be frowned upon for whichever method you choose to enjoy your frogs.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

i'm keeping a dart frog vivarium for pleasure only, so i'm going to leave my tads in. generally, tads that are pulled and raised artificially are smaller and can have less survival rate than parent-raised tads. the reason why is that the proteins and omega acids provided by infertile eggs is bigger than that of fish-food, thus creating a larger, healthier froglet. the only issue with letting the parents raise the tads is that you have to catch the little buggers when they morph.


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## lynnstorm (Nov 23, 2009)

I disagree. This is inly the case in obligate egg feeders. Any other type can be raised just as effectively when pulled from the tank. I have had hidden tads morph in my aurautus tank and they were much smaller and delicate than the tads I pulled and raised myself.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

exactly why i used word like "generally" and "can".


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

lynnstorm said:


> I disagree. This is inly the case in obligate egg feeders. Any other type can be raised just as effectively when pulled from the tank. I have had hidden tads morph in my aurautus tank and they were much smaller and delicate than the tads I pulled and raised myself.


How the froglets emerge ranges all over the map and the results are generally a result of conditions in the enclosure being less than ideal for the growth of the tadpoles or froglets. For example there is excellent data out there that indicates that 26 C (78.8 F) is the optimum temperature to rear auratus tadpoles (and the temperature in one study that was chosen by the male in the wild for tadpole deposition) with poorer growth and size at temperatures that are warmer and cooler than 78.8 C. Given that many people shoot for a temperature in the 70-75 F range in thier enclosures, the emergence of froglets that are more delicate and do not do as well should come as no surprise and this is before we get into the differences in nutrition.. 

(for the study on temperature see Chan, Benjimen KaMing, 2008, Influence of parental care behaviors on offspring fitness in the green and black dart-poison frog (Dendrobates auratus); UMI Dissertation Publication, University of Utah, USA )

Some comments,

Ed


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

That's why I keep my tadpoles in a glass tank with a 3" false bottom with submersible heater set to 76-77 degrees, to keep stable and warm temperatures that aren't in the vivs. I also feel that non-obligate tads that morph in the tank (ones that aren't fed by parents) don't get as much food or as good quality food as ones I raise artificially. Typically they would only get drowned ff, some algae, maybe some detritus, while I can give them fish flakes, frozen food, etc. In frogs that do feed tadpoles, this is obviously different, but that's why I prefer to pull Dendrobates species tadpoles.
Bryan


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## oneshot (Mar 5, 2010)

the reason I like to pull tads is because if I have a breeding pair, and let them tank raise, now I don't know which frogs are the pair....


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