# Pumilio females laying without males?



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Ok, here's the situation. I have 2 orange and green leg pums that I have had for about 7 or 8 months, and in that time I have found about 20 or so clutches (probably more that I haven't found), but not a single one has been good. There has never been any calling from them and I have never seen courting, just eggs. I have heard of excited females dropping eggs when hearing other frogs calling nearby, but not to the extent of 20 or so clutches. I am not sure I have a male, although I just think I wouldn't have gotten 20 clutches from the female without some sort of male influence from within the tank. I thought perhaps that orange and green legs just have a quiet pum call and I had never heard them, but I recently learned from a frogger with several morphs of pumilio that this is one of the (if no the) loudest pums he has. Soooo... evidence points to the other frog in the tank not being a male, but I can't see that many clutches appearing without some sort of male stimulus within the tank. Anyone got any thoughts or have any similar experiences?


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Well, you should definitely try and get a male, i have noticed this in the past when they are well fed and develop ovas that they just need to pass out. So i am sure you are experiencing this same thing. 
see if you can get a male as a breeding loan or something for a few weeks, alot of clutches going to wast for no reason.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Option 1

Move them far from any other pumilio influence/noise. Another room would be best. Whole tank, as is.

Option 2

Separate the 2 frogs. One in each tank and monitor for egg dropping.

Option 3

Obtain a calling male and cycle him with each of the ?females, or add to a trio and monitor for unsuspected additional caller.

Best,

S


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

sports_doc said:


> Option 1
> 
> Move them far from any other pumilio influence/noise. Another room would be best. Whole tank, as is.
> 
> ...


Option 3 is the preferred option, albeit the most difficult. Orange and Green legs aren't that easy to come by, but I may have a line on a male if things work out.


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

*egg laying female*

I had one female blue jeans pumilio in my collection that used to lay clutches 2-3 times a year. She was the only pumilio frog in my frogroom so there was never any other calling. Finally I got her to Brent and she has produced very well for him.

I haven't noticed this from my cristobals, 3 girls together. Also don't think I've ever experienced this with other species. Although looking for eggs with only one frog is not something I do. 

I did get eggs from lone female treefrogs before.

ERic


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

So sounds like it's not out of the question, but the 20ish or so clutches still makes me think the otehr frog is inducing the laying in some way, even if it's not with calling. These have been my toughest cookie to crack so far but it sounds like Shawns idea of keeping them separate and watching for eggs is the best available option if the male I'm hoping to get falls through...


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

Is it possible to successfully cycle a male between tanks? I concidered this for some time and then opted for making the 1.1 into a 1.2 and moving all three into an 18 cube. After 3 weeks I'm still not sure that I'll keep this trio together as I have seen (at least twice) the male calling and then quickly jump onto and then off of female #2's back. Wasn't sure if this was aggression or breeding behavior. Incidentially, I have not seen aggressive behavior between females.


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

Sorry...I didn't want to hijack the thread with my post above.
Female #2 in the post above dropped at least 4 clutches in the 3 months she was living alone.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

sbreland said:


> So sounds like it's not out of the question, but the 20ish or so clutches still makes me think the otehr frog is inducing the laying in some way, even if it's not with calling. These have been my toughest cookie to crack so far but it sounds like Shawns idea of keeping them separate and watching for eggs is the best available option if the male I'm hoping to get falls through...


I had 3 female "Man Creeks" without a male for almost a year. They routinely dropped eggs, and none were fertile. Each one of them reared tads once they were put in with a male.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

You guys aren't giving me a lot of hope for a pair here... :? 
Seriously though, this is good info and I may have to try a little harder to get that male because as someone stated earlier, it's a shame to waste all those eggs...


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