# Oophaga or Ranitomeya



## titansfever83 (Jan 10, 2011)

Having a little frog buying dilemma....

If it were your choice, which would you choose and why? 


Oophaga pumilio 'bastimentos'(red) or ranitomeya imitator 'varadero'


I want the first and my wife wants the latter. BTW, these will be in a 37 gal Viv and will most likely be a pair or trio. Sooooooo..... which one???


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Will these be your first dart? If they are imitators are the way to go


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

If someone put a gun to your head and said "get your first dart", you're more likely to succeed with the imitators, in my opinion. Pumilio are great though - almost a hobby in themselves.


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

vivlover10 said:


> Will these be your first dart? If they are niether.


Weren't your first PDFs varadero? Kinda hypocritical don't you think?

But yeah I agree with him though. Oophaga for sure I would never recommend. They require expert level skills when it comes to their husbandry. And even more when you have little froglets hoping around. If these are your first frogs and you insist going with these smaller species, you should look into ventrimaculata.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

vivlover10 said:


> Will these be your first dart? If they are niether.


Just a little hypocritical there huh? If I am correct your first and only darts are Ranitomeya.

Anyhow Titan, If you do all the proper research and are well prepared you should have no problem with either one. I would personally recomend the Basti as they will more than likely be a bit bolder and as they will be your first darts, you will want to see them. Whichever you choose just be certian to read through the species care sheets and be certian that your viv is adequately prepared for said species.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

The reason I say neither is because your 37g needs alot more broms and film cans. 

Truly sorry about that!! I was not thinking. I meant fir pumilio


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

vivlover10 said:


> your 37g needs alot more broms and film cans. The pumilio's are not beginners because the difficulty breeding.


Yeah...I just looked at your viv and if it were me, I would add atleast 4-6 more broms and another way out for the frogs that will eventually fall into the water. I would also add a BUNCH more leaf litter so that the microfauna can establish itself.


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## titansfever83 (Jan 10, 2011)

I knew this was gonna happen when I was making this thread, anyway......

for those that care, YES THESE ARE MY FIRST PDFs!!!!

I am thankful for your concern of my wallet and the frogs life expectancy, but I am not the type of hobbyist to just jump the gun buy all the best sh*t, and two months later be asking for HELP, WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY FROG!!! 

I research until my brain hurts!!!! I read online, books, videos, as much as I can to find out about every aspect of any critter that I bring into my home. And I will not make a purchase if I think I am not capable of giving this living thing a place that is identical or even better than where they are found in the wild.

Sorry for the rant, but I was an avid fish breeder for almost 8 yrs and have successfully bred many South American species that were noted as impossible to breed in captivity, let alone, keep alive because of their insane water requirements. I know that frogs are not fish, but I have enough confidence that which ever species I purchase listed in my first post will have the ideal environment and will breed for me in due time and have successful rearing of their young.




johnc said:


> If someone put a gun to your head and said "get your first dart", you're more likely to succeed with the imitators, in my opinion. Pumilio are great though - almost a hobby in themselves.


Thanks, John



randommind said:


> Just a little hypocritical there huh? If I am correct your first and only darts are Ranitomeya.
> 
> Anyhow Titan, If you do all the proper research and are well prepared you should have no problem with either one. I would personally recomend the Basti as they will more than likely be a bit bolder and as they will be your first darts, you will want to see them. Whichever you choose just be certian to read through the species care sheets and be certian that your viv is adequately prepared for said species.


Thanks randommind, I assure you I researched both species to an alarming extent. I have looked at many different species before I even bought my first frog tank and have researched continuously throughout my build and while researching plants and other various aspects of keeping PDFs. 


Alex - Thanks for the suggestion, I looked at vents for a long time and eventually eliminated them out of my top three that I was considering. They are still near the top of my list though.


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## titansfever83 (Jan 10, 2011)

randommind said:


> Yeah...I just looked at your viv and if it were me, I would add atleast 4-6 more broms and another way out for the frogs that will eventually fall into the water. I would also add a BUNCH more leaf litter so that the microfauna can establish itself.



I have 10 film canisters (5 white, 5 black) and plenty more broms growing in my greenhouse that are just merely pups now and I'm waiting for them to growout more. Sorry I should have stated that before.

The reason I don't have any of these items in the tank is simply because I am not ready for frogs yet. I have to make a few adjustments to my tank. I have plenty of leaf litter too but I only added what you see in my pics and video in order to let some of my smaller plants establish before I go throwing leaves all over them. Once I feel they are well rooted then I plan on adding a few more broms and a few vines to my 37 gal.

I just simply wanted to know which species you guys would like to keep or have kept and have a few tips on keeping them. I'm still a long ways away from ordering these guys. Easily 3 weeks or more.... how ever long it takes me to get everything in order. I'm in no rush


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

In that case I would play it strategically. If you get the basti now, then you HAVE to build another viv for "her frogs." But to answer your question in the OP, "If it were me"...Basti hands down. I have yet to look into my Basti tank and have to "search" to see them. Always out and about and I love being able to hear their call from across the house.

EDIT: Just in case you have yet to stumble onto this thread

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...robates-pumilio-experiences-keeping-tips.html


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## titansfever83 (Jan 10, 2011)

randommind said:


> In that case I would play it strategically. If you get the basti now, then you HAVE to build another viv for "her frogs." But to answer your question in the OP, "If it were me"...Basti hands down. I have yet to look into my Basti tank and have to "search" to see them. Always out and about and I love being able to hear their call from across the house.


Thanks random.... I'm currently finishing the 37, just started a 12" x 12" x 18" tall. I am in the market for a 36" x 18" x 24" tall and me and my neighbor just started building an oak stand to hold all three.


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

I am truly sorry Titan. I see you have did your research like me, so go ahead and buy your darts when you are ready. I think you will love them. Mine are out all the time and display so many colors. 

I can't wait to see an update of your viv. I am only 12 and it was just an opinion. I am no expert. 

Great viv hope to see frogs using it soon. 
Good luck!


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## bmore (May 11, 2010)

If you have the fruit flies down I would say basti. They are good beginner pums and very active if you have a pair. Just make sure you have the fruit flies down pact before you get either, thats the best advice i can give. Also, and i am no expert, but i would check with someone if have that water feature with the frogs is ok. I don't know what kind of bacteria, virus, etc. that the frogs may pick up from the fish. You dont want a $300 pair of frogs getting sick cause of a couple guppies.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I have Varadero imitators, Basti pumilios, and Iquitos ventrimaculata in side-by-side 20Hs. The colors on the Varaderos and the Iquitos vents are spectacular (the Iquitos are especially "electric). The Bastis are a very beautiful frog, but not "electric" (IMO), but are always out and about in the viv.

The again, I think D. tinctorius is the best frog out there and have many morphs.

Hope you enjoy the hobby! Richard.


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## titansfever83 (Jan 10, 2011)

vivlover10 said:


> I am truly sorry Titan. I see you have did your research like me, so go ahead and buy your darts when you are ready. I think you will love them. Mine are out all the time and display so many colors.
> 
> I can't wait to see an update of your viv. I am only 12 and it was just an opinion. I am no expert.
> 
> ...


Don't be sorry viv. I knew when I hit submit reply that I should have listed a lot more details into my original post. It happens on these forums a lot and I should have known better. But based off what I did post, I understand the responses I got.




bmore said:


> If you have the fruit flies down I would say basti. They are good beginner pums and very active if you have a pair. Just make sure you have the fruit flies down pact before you get either, thats the best advice i can give. Also, and i am no expert, but i would check with someone if have that water feature with the frogs is ok. I don't know what kind of bacteria, virus, etc. that the frogs may pick up from the fish. You dont want a $300 pair of frogs getting sick cause of a couple guppies.




knock on wood, everything is going well with my fruit flies, temp and trop springtails too. I plan on getting a few more 'substrate dwellers' just for backup.

I have looked into the possibility of transferring disease from my pond area but I really didn't find any info on actual cases if that being a problem.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Most people advocate getting larger ground dwelling frogs as your first dart but I think thumbs are way easier personally. Richard makes a great point, ventrimaculatus are beautiful, forgiving, and there are several incredible morphs to choose from. Whatever you choose great job doing your research and not coming on the board after buying frogs.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

The frogs won't get sick from fish by the way. The water quality to keep fish alive is better than most of my swamps in my tanks and in most other members tanks. The frogs would be fine.

If anything, the fish will help the ground media underwater to keep beneficial bacteria colonies. 

That's something I would never worry about. I've kept fish in dart frog tanks. I like danios as they take cooler temps well. Same with guppies. Low 70s is a little cold for most tropical fish with the few exceptions above.


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