# Dart frog and fish paludarium.



## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Hello everyone, I am new to dart frogs. I have several aquariums w/ fish though so I am a fish guy lol. I would love to start a paludarium with a glass divider between the land and water, with dart frogs on the land part and fish and Amazonian plants in the water. I have a few questions:

First, I read a post on here from 2016 that said not to do water features. I was actually thinking of doing one, can someone tell me why I should not? 

Second, the tank will be a 40 breeder. Should I just section off half of this tank? It is a 36x18x18 tank. This is what Josh's frogs recommend for 2-3 bumblebee dart frogs, which is what I want to get. If these frogs like to climb, should I cut the bottom out of the 18x18x18 Exo Terra tank and mount this on top?

Sorry for all the questions, I know next to nothing about keeping frogs.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Are the Josh's frogs kits any good? I think they would make it a lot easier for me.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

aquanerd13 said:


> Are the Josh's frogs kits any good? I think they would make it a lot easier for me.


They're fine, I think, if you want someone else to do the planning for you.

If you are thinking that you want to take the pre-planned route, I do not think a dart frog paludarium is something to take on just yet. Engineering anything as complex as you're talking about is a big task requiring a lot of research and, ideally, experience keeping frogs in a relatively more simple frog viv. 

I'm a big downer on complex enclosures, mostly because I start from a different place. I learn of a frog species I want to keep, then learn what that frog needs to thrive in captivity, then (if I still want to keep that species after learning what it needs) I build a viv for it. Then I get the frogs. 

No darts need water features/waterfalls/paludaria, so those things have never appealed to me.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Should I just do a seperate dart frog vivarium?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

aquanerd13 said:


> Should I just do a seperate dart frog vivarium?


That's what I would do -- prepare an enclosure suited for the species to be enclosed, rather than making a display that features various animals as decor.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Ok. Are bumble bee dart frogs good for beginners?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Do note that JF's kits can be edited; you can, if you want, use the listed items as a base shopping list, then do some research before purchase and find, say, that a digital hygrometer is a $25 waste, and, say, that there are hardscape elements you like more than a manzanita branch, or you learn about plants you like that might not come in the 'what do we have that isn't selling well' package.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

aquanerd13 said:


> Ok. Are bumble bee dart frogs good for beginners?


Leucomelas are a good first frog. Read some care sheets, and use the search feature here to read all the archived threads about them.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Right thanks. I will do that. What would be a good beginner frog though?


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Ok thanks. I will read about the family you said.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Do I need temperate springtails?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

aquanerd13 said:


> Do I need temperate springtails?


They are the best option.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

The best option for what?


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Also, what would be a good size vivarium for Leucomelas?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Here is a good place to start:
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/b...ular-helpful-beginner-discussion-threads.html

Here is a good place to start to learn about leucs:
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/13015-dendrobates-leucomelas-novice.html

Also, DB has a couple ways to search the archives: the search button in the green toolbar at the top, and the Google search field just above that (I like the Google search, but do try them both to see which you prefer). 

Happy reading!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

fishingguy12345 said:


> They are the best option.


I don't even know what kind of springtail I have, but I am curious about this. Why would temperate springtails be better than tropical given the conditions in our vivariums? No challenge intended, I just wanted to learn 

Mark


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> I don't even know what kind of springtail I have, but I am curious about this. Why would temperate springtails be better than tropical given the conditions in our vivariums? No challenge intended, I just wanted to learn
> 
> 
> 
> Mark


Clearly I was tired, I meant tropical springtails are the best option. Whoops!

To reiterate: tropical springtails are the best option.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Clearly I was tired, I meant tropical springtails are the best option. Whoops!
> 
> To reiterate: tropical springtails are the best option.


What are springtails for? Do the frogs eat them? Do you still have to feed the frogs other stuff?


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

There is absolute gold in this forum, but you have to mine it first  The search bar is your friend, as Socratic Monologue said. To get you started, I suggest reading the threads linked here:

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/b...ular-helpful-beginner-discussion-threads.html

Best of luck!

Mark


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

So I am having 2nd thoughts about the bumble bee dart frogs. I want something that climbs a bit and I read that they don't really climb. Is this true? If so, what are some good beginner species that do climb?


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> There is absolute gold in this forum, but *you have to mine it first*


@OP: read this again. See my bold/emphasis. Folks here are super nice. Don't abuse or waste it though. Do some homework, eh?

Good luck!


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Ok, thanks. Is this a good hygrometer? If not, which is your favorite?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HDW58G...olid=2XFGQN7GOFPTE&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

If you searched and read, you would see that for the most part folks here think hygrometers are a waste of money, for several reasons.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I am very overwhelmed by information right now. As of a month ago, I didn't know people had dart frogs in their homes, so this is very new to me. The plant part is also very hard for me to understand, as I have only kept aquatic plants. I am also confused as to whether or not I need a heater. Cleaning the habitat is a mystery too. Can you please tell me what to get? A thermometer? A humidity reader?


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Would an infrared temp gun work?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

aquanerd13 said:


> Would an infrared temp gun work?


https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gtsearch.php?q=ir temp gun

Search. Read. Repeat.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I think I may know the answer to this but would it be cheaper to get a vivarium kit or set it up from scratch?


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

So I am able to get hydroton and a 5 pack of egg crate for the same price for a false bottom. Which would be better?


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Sorry for all the questions, but would you recommend against a water feature? Don't darts soak up water through their skin?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

aquanerd13, would you do me a favor and count how many times in this thread people have helpfully suggested you search for the information you're looking for? 

After you do that, please post that number as a reply to this post. Thanks.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

This is getting hilarious...


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I HAVE been searching. What I am posting here is what I am having a hard time finding answers for.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

aquanerd13 said:


> I HAVE been searching. What I am posting here is what I am having a hard time finding answers for.


I do believe ya.

Here's a great tip on how to use an OLD forum/medium like this that existed eons before Zuckbook...

Find your topic via the search engine built in here on DB or use google.

THEN after reading the thread and still needing clarification, go ahead and POST your reply DIRECTLY on that old thread. 

We will see it and we will better help you that way, instead of shotgunning questions here.

The old heads, back before atomic weapons, used to refer to this as 'Thread Necromancy'. Perfectly useful.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Philsuma said:


> I do believe ya.
> 
> Here's a great tip on how to use an OLD forum/medium like this that existed eons before Zuckbook...
> 
> ...


Okay most forums I am on don't want people to post on old threads. Sorry.


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## monsieur_elegante (Oct 13, 2012)

aquanerd13 said:


> I HAVE been searching. What I am posting here is what I am having a hard time finding answers for.


A helpful tip from one newbie to another - if you're really having trouble searching the wealth of topics here, the way that I like to do it is to use regular Google search, but tag on "dendroboard" to your search term. 

For example, just recently, I wanted to learn about how well the plant "cissus amazonica" would do in a dart frog tank. Rather than starting a new post to ask about this, I went to Google, typed in "cissus amazonica dendroboard" in the search bar, and boom! More than enough Dendroboard forum posts to answer to all my questions.

It's pretty much how I mined all the information I needed to get started on this hobby!

Good luck!


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Ohhh. Thank you very much.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I have been searching online stores a lot and so far Josh's Frogs has the best deals on vivarium supplies.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

So this is something I have not been finding answers for(or all the ones I find are totally different). Do I need to QT these frogs? I QT my fish in a smaller tank because it is cheaper and easier to treat the display tank. Is this the same for frogs? They are going to be the first frogs, so I don't need to worry about them infecting other frogs.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

IDK why the word 'tank' is a link.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> This is getting hilarious...


I know, right? Damn. Funny-not funny though, right?



> A helpful tip from one newbie to another - if you're really having trouble searching the wealth of topics here, the way that I like to do it is to use regular Google search, but tag on "dendroboard" to your search term.


Hey, thanks man, that's useful. Well done. Also - thanks for the inadvertent plant tip (though looking at the DB returns as you suggested, it seems some of our members aren't finding care of this little guy quite so easy!):



> Species: Cissus amazonica
> Common name(s): Amazon Jungle Vine
> Native to: Brazil
> Temperature preferences: Warm growing
> ...





OK. So now. As for this:


> I am very overwhelmed by information right now. As of a month ago, I didn't know people had dart frogs in their homes, so this is very new to me. The plant part is also very hard for me to understand, as I have only kept aquatic plants. I am also confused as to whether or not I need a heater. Cleaning the habitat is a mystery too. Can you please tell me what to get? A thermometer? A humidity reader?


OK, straight out of the chute I'm gonna lay it out there that I'm taking you seriously - that you aren't just _trolling the fuck_ out of us clowns. Dude, I think my advice is to keep your wallet put away for another few months at least, and just search and read and try to organize your thoughts. Seriously, you need a "schema" or "filing system" to put everything that comes in, so you know how it all relates to everything else.

Honest question, no-judging-zone, related to the schema idea: how old are you, and probably more importantly, *how much science education have you been given/forced, or voluntarily gone and gotten for yourself?* A hungry precocious 16-year old could dominate this hobby. An ignorant incurious 50-year old could still be flailing after decades. Ahem. _That's not me OK?_ Ha ha.

Anyway - I ask for the following reason. One can approach this material from a more-technical perspective, or from a more-artistic / pure-enthusiasm perspective, but at the end of the day, *what we are doing is applied ecology*. It's a constructed life-support system in a box. It's got a foundation of science and engineering, and - when we are good, and lucky! - a lovely superstructure of "artsy" perched on top. Hiding the science and engineering, but utterly, utterly dependent on them.

I for one am eternally thankful for my STEM background and orientation. It reduces "the overwhelm" and helps me break down viv + inhabitants problems and situations, so I can design & diagnose & adapt in a smarter order. Basically, *it helps me kill less stuff* - not a bad outcome, not a bad goal. Anyway, if my question makes you uncomfortable please don't respond. I'm not prying. But please do consider it privately, and what else I said. 

Please, if by now you are having a hard time hearing me - look at your thread title again - it's "Dart frog and fish paludarium". Fairly complicated, fairly advanced, fairly technical. That's a pretty serious understatement, OK? And you not even knowing about this hobby a month ago. Slow down, bud, for real. *Slow down.* My point here is:



If you go all-in on an artsy-enthusiastic, science-free-zone, you're gonna kill a shit-ton of shit. *No shit.* That is ugly, and that is stupid. Get smart.



Good luck, truly. Slow down, study, learn. Maybe look at fewer pictures for a while, and read more. *Kill less shit, support more life.* It will feel much better, I promise you. Life is precious, support more life. 

Kill less.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I suppose I have not had that much science education but I do enjoy some of it(NOT the scientific method or any of that).


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I am being told on another forum that tree frogs are easier than dart frogs and I should start with those. Is this true?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

aquanerd13 said:


> I am being told on another forum that tree frogs are easier than dart frogs and I should start with those. Is this true?


Kind of an odd question. 

Do you just want any kind of frog? I don't see that one can substitute for the other; I find darts really fascinating, but wouldn't keep a tree frog if you gave me one. Other folks think exactly the opposite.

Back to jgragg's advice: slow down, read lots. After that, do it again. Figure out for yourself which is "easier" (I don't even know what 'easier' means in this context, honestly) by learning all about both. You might come to realize that you actually want a cat; you're bouncing around so much here that it is pretty clear you haven't pinned your aims down even remotely.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I would like a pair of dendrobates auratus. I know they are semi-arboreal. I am thinking of the 24x18x18 tank because I know they will like the height, but they need a fair bit ground space also so as a semi-arboreal species, they will appreciate the ground space I think. Is this correct? I know the males call from the top of the tank during the breeding time so they use height just not as much as they use ground space. I have read that they sleep at some elevation to but they eat on the ground usually.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I don't keep auratus, but that all sounds reasonable to me.

Although I think you're right about the things you say about viv height and frog behavior, a lot of folks simply like 24" tall vivs for the planting possibilities they offer. After drainage space and substrate you lose ~4 inches or so from the height, too. 

That all said, an 18" tall viv would be nice, too. Kind of a personal preference thing. Looking at full viv pics of 18" tall vs 24" tall vivs here might help you to see if what I've said resonates with you or not.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I was also thinking of the 24x18x18 because I thought it would be better for plants lol. I forgot that I can have vines and stuff and plants on the backgrounds. I really need to stop thinking of this like an aquarium.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> Figure out for yourself which is "easier" (I don't even know what 'easier' means in this context, honestly) by learning all about both. You might come to realize that you actually want a cat; you're bouncing around so much here that it is pretty clear you haven't pinned your aims down even remotely.


This is also good feedback. Another way to look at it is - easier is what you like more. Not "you like it, because it's easy" but the opposite - "it's easy, because you like it". All kinds of things come to mind - dancing, playing music, learning foreign languages, applying mathematics. None of these is especially easy, but if you don't like them, they're hard, or just awful. Whereas if any of them turn out to be something you like - they will come to you relatively easily, and other people will be jealous, thinking you're lucky. But we're all lucky, in our own things. Maybe you're a good dancer (lucky!!!) but suck at math (not lucky!!!), who knows.

I tell you what. Have you ever thought about wild-caught native or introduced anurans? We have treefrogs, semi-terrestrial frogs, aquatic frogs, seriously terrestrial frogs. We've got huge frogs, tiny frogs, and lots and lots of medium-sized frogs.

I mention this, because "sampling" from what you can catch might help you learn what turns your crank. These, you will find easy because they bring you joy. We have many wonderful treefrogs - greys and barkers for example. If you're in Florida, why not a Cuban? Conversely, I find toads utterly charming. We have some great toads too. Finally, take a look at greenhouse frogs. I've never kept them (just used them as snake food, ha ha) but I suspect they would provide a reasonable facsimile for dart keeping.

Your age gives you a virtual free pass from a "fish and game" standpoint. Maybe you need to buy a fishing license - look into it. They are cheap and nowadays usually available online. Probably you don't even need one though, until you're 15 or 16. Just don't keep anything that isn't legal to possess. 

Also there are usually prohibitions on releasing captives back into the wild. But honestly, if you are starting with absolutely sterilized caging & decor, and don't have any other pets, keeping a wild-caught toad over the summer and then around when school starts back up letting it go on a rainy night, right where you caught it, is a very low-risk proposition from a biosecuity standpoint. (I'm dead certain I'm now convincing some people here I'm a complete asshole. But, all of us old guys here did this. The rules have changed but I don't think the reality has. It turns out that chytrid has been here quite a while.) Biosecurity is manageable, some things *DO* need to be banned but other things just need commonsense rules. Like "sterilize, and do not mix". Another approach would be to just keep the animal in captivity for its full lifespan - keep it until it dies. That works even better. It's both biosecure, and legal. _That is better._

Anyway - welcome. Thanks for not being overly shy or sensitive. You're young, things seem to take forever. But you're gonna live a long time. There is plenty of time to figure stuff out - don't be in a rush.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

What brings me joy so far is my fish. And my chickens, but mostly fish. I like your idea of a wild-caught frog over the summer. I will do that next summer in preparation to the darts. If I enjoyed it and maintenance wasn't so bad, I will get darts. If it kinda sucked and maintenance was not fun, I guess I will stick to fish.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I have a fishing license already. Plus I live on 3 acres with a fair bit of frogs. We have a large creek and several smaller streams. Releasing will not be a problem. We see leopard and bull frogs commonly.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

Congrats on your living situation - sounds nice. Leopards and bullfrogs would be harder captives to succeed with than treefrogs or toads (or spadefoots for that matter, if you have them), because of their jumping (and nose-smashing) abilities and overall nervousness. Have you seen or heard treefrogs or toads on the property? You can get audio of frog calls pretty easily these days. It's actually fun - and a bit challenging - to just hear them and be able to ID them. Then it's even more fun - and also sometimes challenging - to walk over to the noise and put eyes on those animals. Some species call most or all of the warm season, others call during very specific times, like only in late winter. All this info is available in good field guides.

What state do you live in? Please, no more detail than what state. Some states (farther south and east) with those 2 species you mentioned have many more anuran taxa, while others (farther north and west) only have a few. Also, some states have good online Herp Atlases. For example, https://www.inherpatlas.org/

Maybe see if yours has one.

Honestly, you might also just get started on a viv. If you really want a frog / fish palu, 1) it will take longer than you think to make it and get it running as you initially intend, and 2) it will take even longer to observe its running and then adjust things to smooth-running perfection. Working out these kinks WELL BEFORE subjecting an animal to your tender ministrations is the humane route. 

And maybe you will discover you like seeing herps in the wild more than you like having them in a tank. It's a common feeling - not right or wrong, but some people have it. Honestly, it can be cheaper and take less time (easier) to just go outside to see them - but it can also become a passionate hobby. Some people travel the world just to go see herps. Some people discover an interest in nature photography and develop real talents in it. Some people build frog (or salamander, but I digress!) breeding ponds or otherwise create or improve some aspect of wildlife habitat, right in their backyard. You never know where this interest might take you. Hobby, career, friendships - all possible.

Good luck!


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## macg (Apr 19, 2018)

This is all great feedback. I want to diverge one moment now that we know your age. Please, as soon as possible, let your parents know you are on this forum. Show it to them, and periodically tell them about what you've been discussing and with whom you have beem chatting. I've never seen anything inappropriate on this forum, but it is best to make sure your parents are up to date and there for you in case someone contacts you inappropriately. 

Your age is a great and exciting time for this stuff, and it's about the same age I started exploring the internet for darts. Bring your parents along for the journey. I suspect they will enjoy watching you grow and learn as well.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

jgragg said:


> Congrats on your living situation - sounds nice. Leopards and bullfrogs would be harder captives to succeed with than treefrogs or toads (or spadefoots for that matter, if you have them), because of their jumping (and nose-smashing) abilities and overall nervousness. Have you seen or heard treefrogs or toads on the property? You can get audio of frog calls pretty easily these days. It's actually fun - and a bit challenging - to just hear them and be able to ID them. Then it's even more fun - and also sometimes challenging - to walk over to the noise and put eyes on those animals. Some species call most or all of the warm season, others call during very specific times, like only in late winter. All this info is available in good field guides.
> 
> What state do you live in? Please, no more detail than what state. Some states (farther south and east) with those 2 species you mentioned have many more anuran taxa, while others (farther north and west) only have a few. Also, some states have good online Herp Atlases. For example, https://www.inherpatlas.org/
> 
> ...


I live in Oregon, and we don't have to many amphibians. We have those red-bellied salamanders, the frogs I stated above. I found this and I realized that I once saw a pacific tree frog several years ago. https://gonefroggin.com/2016/09/26/frogs-toads-oregon/




macg said:


> This is all great feedback. I want to diverge one moment now that we know your age. Please, as soon as possible, let your parents know you are on this forum. Show it to them, and periodically tell them about what you've been discussing and with whom you have beem chatting. I've never seen anything inappropriate on this forum, but it is best to make sure your parents are up to date and there for you in case someone contacts you inappropriately.
> 
> Your age is a great and exciting time for this stuff, and it's about the same age I started exploring the internet for darts. Bring your parents along for the journey. I suspect they will enjoy watching you grow and learn as well.


They really don't care about my hobbies and learning about them as long as:
1. They don't have to pay any money(for the hobby or for repair bills) and
2. I can keep my pets contained and NOT roaming the house, and
3. I am safe, and
4. It looks nice and doesn't stink.


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## thedudeabides (Mar 3, 2015)

Welcome to the hobby, just to throw my 2 cents out there. I personally researched on here the better part of a year before getting my first darts. That being said care requirements for darts isn't all that demanding and the more simple you keep things the better off you will be starting out. We all start out seeing these awesome set ups and want them but the truth is it's best to keep it simple your first set up, learn the lessons that come with it, then use that experience later down the road to build your dream set up. You're young so take your time you've got plenty of it.

Also one thing to keep in mind with darts vs. other frogs is what you will be feeding them. I personally came to the conclusion many years ago that I did not want anything to do with voluntarily keeping crickets in my home. Not sure fruit flies are much better ha ha. Just something to keep in mind when trying to keep the rents happy.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Yes I have lot's of time. I am saving my money right now for the dart frog tank which will take a while. As you said, I will keep it simple. In a few years, if I am still loving it and I want to upgrade, I will setup my dream paludarium.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Well, the realistic dream paludarium. Or maybe just stick with a huge viv. I have plenty of time to think.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Ok. Thank you for your concern. I will do that. I am actually currently unable to access my account page, so I am incapable of reading/sending PMs right now. Thank you again for your concern.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

So I am very confused about lighting. Some say it is good and the frogs need UV rays to bask in, what others say and makes more sense IMO is that because they live on the forest floor, they need very little light. I also have plants to take into consideration. What would be the best bulb? I could just go with low light plants.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

aquanerd13 said:


> So I am very confused about lighting. Some say it is good and the frogs need UV rays to bask in, what others say and makes more sense IMO is that because they live on the forest floor, they need very little light. I also have plants to take into consideration. What would be the best bulb? I could just go with low light plants.


There's a whole section on vivarium construction here, it has hundreds of threads discussing lighting options. Read those.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

Ok thanks.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I need some opinions on this planting list:

x1 anthurium 'oaxaca' (I would have this one growing up the back wall)
x1 Calathea lancifolia 'Rattlesnake Plant'
x1 Nephrolepis cordifolia 'Lemon Button Fern'
x2-4 Cryptocoryne wendtii 'green'(as a foreground plant)


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

aquanerd13 said:


> I need some opinions on this planting list:
> 
> x1 anthurium 'oaxaca' (I would have this one growing up the back wall)
> x1 Calathea lancifolia 'Rattlesnake Plant'
> ...


I don't think Bromeliads would do well with the low light the above plants need, which is a shame because I really like them.

I was also thinking of getting some anubias and/or bucephalandras to put on the driftwood.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

I would rather start off with fewer plants and if I want more, I can always order them. Also, with the plants I suggested, should I not use a hood with lights? I could just put a desk lamp on a timer and place it kind of far from the vivarium? Like the below link and a plant growing bulb?

https://www.amazon.com/TORCHSTAR-In...71382011&rnid=5571378011&s=lamps-light&sr=1-2


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## Dr. Manhattan (Oct 28, 2016)

I keep Vietnamese Mossy Tree Frogs and they are perfect paludarium amphibians. That being said they require some work. Temps, both water and air, ideally 68F to 75F, water pH below 7.0, I keep mine at 6.4, and keeping live crickets on hand. Good thing is they're avid feeders, even during the day, and I also give them earthworms occasionally. Temps might be really easy for you considering your climate and I would assume if you have well water that it would be soft as I imagine with all the rainfall you guys get it having to percolate down through all that acidic/organic matter (moss, pine needles, leaves) then into non-calcareous bedrock.


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## aquanerd (Sep 12, 2019)

our water is super weird. Yes, we are on a well, but the gh and kh are both 3 and the ph is 7.6!


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> I live in Oregon, and we don't have to many amphibians.


Cool, great state, love the diverse landscapes. However, the amphibian diversity is actually pretty good - especially once you start looking at what families are represented, and not just the species count. Tailed frogs? Sweet! Ha ha.

https://pages.uoregon.edu/titus/herp/checklist.html

However, my impression is that Oregon is one of the stricter states when it comes to field herping, and keeping natives. Please be sure to find out what the laws are there. It might well be that it would be easier to just keep some sort of exotics after all. And for the natives, just have fun learning where they live and how to see them. (Tailed frogs for example _are_ awesome, both as larvae and as adults. Personally I have found the tads to be way easier to locate in small fast cold creeks. Their tail-tips are pale, and are easy to see on the little sucker-mouthed tads hanging onto rocks in the fast clear water. Seeing adults is easiest - not to say always easy! - by walking gravelly sides of small streams at night, in the drizzle. Watch for eyeshine.)

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> I'll be more specific. A lot of people on the internet now know they are talking to a 13 year old. Some percentage of those people are pedophiles and will harm you without you realizing it until it's too late. If someone on this or any forum sends you a private message or asks to meet with you, tell your parents immediately.
> 
> I'm not trying to hijack this thread. That's the last I'll say about this, but I couldn't in good conscious not try to make this clear. God forbid we find this forum in the headlines for the wrong reason.


Good treatment of an awkward, unpleasant subject that nevertheless cannot be ignored. Well done, thanks.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey Aquanerd, check out this video of native frogs calling (make sure the sound is up):
Frog, salamander, turtle and snake photos & videos from 2019 - Field Herp Forum

That's what I mean about some folks really getting into "hunting" frogs, but having it be more like traditional birding. Sometimes with photo/video skills added into the mix. Cool stuff, I think.

Good luck!


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