# Starting the 70-Gallon Trifecta



## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Recently I moved to Michigan and in the process sold all my frogs, gave away all my tanks, and lost access to the unlimited free glass locally available for building. A bit of a bummer, but sometimes it's nice to begin fresh.

As I work out of a small office in my basement I decided it might be nice to brighten it up with some new tanks. Unfortunately my office is already filled with Ikea furniture, so whatever I decided on would need to fit within those constraints.

Against one wall I have two besta shelf units, 47.25" in length, by 15.75" in depth. Above it is two small besta shelf units, leaving about 40" in between. This seemed like a good place to add some tanks.










With a total space of 94.5"x15.75"x40", I wasn't sure what I could fit. And as I wasn't into the idea of building them myself, I decide to see if anyone made custom tanks in the area. I was directed to MartyMade tanks. Marty makes tanks based off frames sizes and actually frames out the entire tank. This meant my size options were standard aquarium sizes, with a few possible modifications. 

Since two 48" tanks would not fit, I decided on getting three tanks, all 30.25"x15.5"x36". Thus my 70 gallon trifecta. These 70 gallon tanks would have 30"x30" openings with sliding doors, and cost half that of a Large X-Tall Exo Terra. I should get them Friday.










Before I get some LED's I thought I would see how florescence looked mounted.










While I could envision them possibly working, I decided to go the way of LEDs as these could be mounted low profile under the top shelf. I found EasyLEDLighting.com. They sell lights that use three Cree XT-E LED, rated at 1500mA and output 5.3Watt per chip. I decided 6 of these would be perfect to light 3 tanks. With each giving off around 1300 lumens of light, 2 per tank should work great. They arrive tomorrow.










I can't wait to see it all put together this weekend. Then the build may begin.

Jae


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Looks like it'll be very nice! Subscribed. 

I've seen a few DB members frog rooms with the MartyMade tanks. I think they're very nice setups.

-Chris


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## Giga (Mar 31, 2011)

i'm on board


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

So the lights arrived today from easyledlighting.com. Only 1 of the the 45w kits . I'm not sure if Tim the owner was being cautious or what, but I really want the other ones, cause these look great!










I adapted the LED to mount to the top shelf. Rather than shoot light straight down, would give a 15 degree angle toward the back wall. Then I compared it with a T5 Florescent Hi-Output 54w light. No contest:










The next part is to see how 32w of LED light look on the back of a 30x15x36.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

So you will be running 1 per tank? And do you know the lengths of these? and by chance, can he piggy back them? So they all run off one plug? I would be interested in buying 6+ of these from him given the length of the units and what not... may be a much better option for me than T8 fixtures


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Glad to see another frogger in Michigan even if its on the eastside of the state.


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

Haha, I love how LED's always blow away fluorescents.
Looking good, subbed.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

I'll have two per tank. 1 would have been great if it was a smaller tank, but with a 30 inch width I thought 2 would make more sense. Each LED Module is 9 inches wide:










You can find the specs here: Specifications

I have them bent at a 75 degree angle so they would lean a little to the back. 80 might have been better, but I'm still doing testing. The bend means it only comes out an inch from where I'll mount it.

3 modules run piggy back to 1 driver. So I'll be using two drivers. He's got packages for 3 or 4 modules running off a driver, but you could also just buy the modules separately, solder them together yourself, and by your own power supply to handle the amps. It's all detailed on the website.

I'm getting my tanks in an hour! 

Jae




Nismo95 said:


> So you will be running 1 per tank? And do you know the lengths of these? and by chance, can he piggy back them? So they all run off one plug? I would be interested in buying 6+ of these from him given the length of the units and what not... may be a much better option for me than T8 fixtures


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Tanks arrived. I'm a happy camper! Marty is very professional when it comes to packaging them (and would say these are 72-gallon tanks). I was pretty impressed with all the plastic and warp around everything when it arrived. And that's not even mentioning the quality of the tanks. It's all 1/4" glass, so heavy and sturdy and huge (look at those little 12 ounce cans). Plus it's all trimmed out with black framing. Marty helped me carry them into my basement. 










I'll post more photos when I'm off work, but I did want to mention the difference between lights. You can't tell in the photo the light difference. But I use a light meter for shooting film to test, and there is a full f-stop difference, which in terms of light is double for those LEDs. Makes me wish I had something to measure lumens. Is an iPhone good for that?

More after work.

Jae


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## asully (Mar 3, 2011)

I wish i new about this lighting before i bought those jungle dawn. Even though i think they will do a good job. But how did you hook those heat sinks for your light up? did you just attach it straight to the cabinet? i dont know how hot they get so im curious if you had to do anything special so you dont have catch anything on fire.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

So everything is attached and ready to go when you get the LEDs, except for the wiring to the driver. Yep, just taped them to the cabinet. Nope, they get warm, but not hot enough to start a fire. They don't even get as hot as my florescent lights!

I'm finishing all the wiring and made a video so you can see them all hooked up.






Jae



asully said:


> I wish i new about this lighting before i bought those jungle dawn. Even though i think they will do a good job. But how did you hook those heat sinks for your light up? did you just attach it straight to the cabinet? i dont know how hot they get so im curious if you had to do anything special so you dont have catch anything on fire.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Very nice… I am definitely interested to see how they turn out. 

I wish somebody built tanks like that around here. Very difficult to find a tank that size locally.


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## asully (Mar 3, 2011)

Thats sweet but for now i will see how these jungle dawn 17 watts do. I got an email back they said the 17 watt puts out between 1800-1900 lumens each. But if my plants dont take to it i think i will try these leds out.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Here is my video review of the custom tanks I had done by MartyMade. As you can see, my lights are up and running and I'll be also talking about those in the near future.






Jae


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

The trifecta build is looking great, getting all the necessities out of the way before you get to landscape those huge tanks. 

I have been debating ordering from easyledlighting as there website makes me skeptical but seeing as you got some units in its looking more tempting



> So the lights arrived today from easyledlighting.com. Only 1 of the the 45w kits . I'm not sure if Tim the owner was being cautious or what


What did you mean by that? You ordered but never received the full shipment on the first delivery?


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## asully (Mar 3, 2011)

Just bought a two LED kit form easy led lighting as well. I was searching around and based on other peoples orchidariums and vivariums the jungle dawns alone was not going to put out enough lumens for that size. The plants at all levels now will thrive so now my 36x18x36 will have about 6200 lumens being pumped in to it. With your experience would these leds be hot enough to melt or warp acrylic or plastic.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

singhm29 said:


> What did you mean by that? You ordered but never received the full shipment on the first delivery?


Yep. I order two but just got one. Now I have them all. Both were shipped 2-day USPS. Tim thought these lights were going to be too bright. I can't imagine finding LEDs that are too bright for our needs. 



asully said:


> Just bought a two LED kit form easy led lighting as well. I was searching around and based on other peoples orchidariums and vivariums the jungle dawns alone was not going to put out enough lumens for that size. The plants at all levels now will thrive so now my 36x18x36 will have about 6200 lumens being pumped in to it. With your experience would these leds be hot enough to melt or warp acrylic or plastic.


Why are the jungle dawns not enough? How many are you putting over one tank? I'm sure two of them would be good. Didn't you say jungle dawns were like 1800 lumens?

I plan on posting more on my blog about easyledlighting once I have time. Right now I'm in the long process of drilling holes!

Jae


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

> I plan on posting more on my blog about easyledlighting once I have time. Right now I'm in the long process of drilling holes!


Looking forward to it!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

I drilled my vents last night with a 2" diamond drill bit. It's been a while since I have had to use it so it wasn't a perfect job. Closed up the holes with a Heyco 2" grommet and 2" circles of 100 aluminum mesh. I ended up leaving them upside-down so they look nice when I look up at my tank.










I have about 21 T-misting assemblies from MistKing and decided rather than drilling a bunch of holes, why not just drill one 5/8" hole and merge some of the assemblies to make a quad mister. I think it actually worked out well, although 4 misters may be an overkill. Check out the video to see it in action.










I also never got around to using the 50mm PC Fans I modified with speed control to hang inside the tanks. These have the Heyco grommets glued on the front, covered in so-see-em mosquito mesh, and wrapped with a rubber hair band. I tried drilling a 3/4" hole and mounting them with a couple orbit arms. the hole was too small so I had to drill it out into a 1" hole and used a 1" grommet to trim it.










It's all starting to come together. The positioning should probably be father away from the edge of the tank, but I also wanted to avoid covering the lights. I'll be drilling the other tanks out tonight and replacing some of my lighting which shorted out due to electro static discharge (probably when I added the metal trim while they were running). More on the day and night lighting once those get installed.

Jae


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## asully (Mar 3, 2011)

They are probably enough, but i think they wont allow for the necessary lighting to make them thrive. Plus the led lighting is cheap from easy led. I have to make my own hood so these are a quick cheap easy solution for a little extra umph in lighting.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Well the easyLEDlights are now fully up and running above my tanks:










I'm pretty happy with them. I placed them in the front near the misting system and blocked light from the 1.75" of space where they are located with a big angled aluminum bar. It acts as a light shield and also help with heat dissipation.










It's mounted there using the feet from the bottom of the cabinet. And the bar does get hot where it connects to the lights. Not enough to burn you. But where the lights meet the metal mounting bar can be damn hot. It melted the hose to my misting system so be warned.

The lights themselves have very little weight and are just stuck in place with double sided tape:










While I can't test for lumens at the bottom of the tank, I did test for the kind of lighting I look for when recording the activities of my frogs. Great lighting levels!










I did a blog write up of all this which you can see here: » Lighting by easyLEDlighting Frog Cube

Now I need to finish up my misting system and redo my fans (way too loud for me). Then the big question. Great stuff of clay background?

Jae


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

do an epiweb/cork background!!!!


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Any updates?


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

epiphytes etc. said:


> Any updates?


Thanks for asking. Nothing major to report. I'm still trying to sort out the kind of tank I want to build. And trying to decide if I want a drainage system. So while I'm stilling working all that out, most of my work was electrical.

After connecting all my fans I ended up with the wrong polarity and they all shorted out. It may be an issue with 3-pin fans. I'm not sure. In the mean time I decided to play around with some 50mm round fans that actually fit into 2" pipe perfectly.










Unfortunately while Michigan if full of white PCV pipe they don't seem to carry black ABS at all. So until I find some the air circulation system is on hold.










The 1.5" aluminum angle works well above the tanks to block light and as as a heat sink. But I decided it would also be a good mount for night lighting.










I had some low wattage blue 12" LED strips around the house, so I installed them on the aluminum angle. At 12v they looked a bit too bight for night lighting. I don't have a 5v or 6v power source so I decided to put them on a dimmer.










The dimmer was made as a 4 fan speed control, but I took 2 of the knobs out and replaced them with a rocker switches so I not only could turn down the lighting, but turn if off completely. I'm considering using this as an option to vent the tanks at night and provide night lighting.

If anyone knows where I can get 30" cork bark rounds let me know. I'm thinking I might not put a background in, but see if I can make branches that flow all the way up each tank.

Jae


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## Amphinityfrogs (Jan 30, 2013)

Nice work so far. I like the fan you built. It is ver neat and clean looking.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

frogparty said:


> do an epiweb/cork background!!!!


You have some nice buildings going! I was in deep contemplation of what to build. In the past it's been either clay backgrounds for small tanks, or great stuff covered in coco fiber for larger tanks. Cork, Epiweb, and Hygrolon all sound interesting. So did root backgrounds. But I think I just want a thin background and will try later to build cork branches that visually connect all three tanks together. I just saw Derek Benson's post of the 5 pieces he made into one branch and it looks amazing.

With the holidays on I've been swamped at work. But I hated seeing these empty tanks every day. So I finally decided to at least put a background on them. I always wanted to try a CocoTek Mat. This time I decided it would be worth it. They are cheap and an 8x4 mat can fill the back of each tank and provide a layer between substrates.










At first I was going to try the 1" version. But the only reason for that is for trying to stick Broms into the mat and it's pretty dense for something like that. So I decided to go for the 1/4" version. It's thin and a mix of coco fiber covered on each side with natural rubber. I think the rubber keeps it from decaying quickly. Anyway, I used silicon to attach it to the back of the tank and left the rest at the bottom until I am ready to add my growstones below it.










I have a bunch of cork from past builds and would like to place them on the coco mat background, with space in between to try and grow plants. Perhaps add pot with cork around it. I'm still not sure. Right now I'm just trying to find the best adhesive for the job. titebond III is not working. I'm going to get some liquid nails when I have time. 










I may drop some strips of Hygrolon between pieces of bark. I'm still not totally sure how people do a bark background.

Jae


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Try the E-600 glue. Super strong. Or use gorilla glue (sparingly)
Cork backgrounds are usually done by gluing the cork right to the glass, then filling the gaps between the cork pieces with sphagnum moss 
The trick is to glue the cork pieces close enough together to allow for sphagnum to be easily stuffed between the pieces so it doesn't fall out. Usually an inch or less between cork pieces 

I like the minimalist look to the coco mat you've got. Plants should root in easily, and I like the lighter color. Not sure how long it will hold up, hopefully a long time


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Nice so far. Can't wait to see the turn out.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks guys. Until I get some plants in there its going to look really minimalist. Never thought about putting the moss between the bark. I can see how you could make what looked like lines of moss growing on a tree. I could try this, but I already have the coco fiber in. Also if I got imitators, I wanted a place they could sit other than on plants. Tough decisions.










Quick side note. Those fans don't fit into 2" pipe. But they do fit into 1-1/2" coupling. I'm consider building air-circulation on the outside of the tank. 










I mention it only because I decided to take a page from Dartfrogfreak, and using a 1-1/2" coupler, cleanout plug and adapter, built a quick way to siphon my tanks. Sliding doors make siphoning something easy to do.










To make it a 1/2" taller I used one of my grommets on the bottom. They have slits in them so it seemed a good way to allow water in.










I hate false bottoms. And I don't much care for hydroton. But I do like growstones. Not the big type but the soil aerator kind. They are small, lightweight, look like gravel, and provide something for roots to latch to. They also soak up water and I find also allows water to dissipate faster. A bag is more than enough for these three tanks.










I added what was left of my coco fiber mat above the grow stones. I'm starting to think I may not add soil. I'll simply cut more holes in the coco fiber and pot any plants at the bottom. Everything else gets covered in leaves. Since I'm planting the background and building branches with plants on them, it seems like the terrestrial area should be less of a concern. If anyone has thoughts on that I'd love to hear them.

It's so weird with these coco fiber mats. I feel like I'm putting carpeting down!

Jae


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Cool idea! You'll likely have to be more consistent with adding micro fauna if you go the no soil route, but that's no big deal!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

So I flipped the 2" grommets and tried some screen mesh over stretchy misquote mesh. Reminds me of a two-sided microphone, but it works and allows better airflow.










It's late night work and boring as hell to watch, but I demonstrate what I'm doing if anyone is interested.






Last notation. These are pretty loud, but going down from 12v to 6v quiets things down and still allows for slow airflow.

Jae


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm digging the bulkhead fit fans. Good idea!!!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

frogparty said:


> I'm digging the bulkhead fit fans. Good idea!!!


Thanks. Oddly I bought them a year ago and they have been sitting in a drawer all this time. Pack of 10 for $20 including shipping. You can find them on ebay if you look up 48mm 12v fans.

Jae


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Just wondering what inhabitants you have planned for these monsters, imitators of some sort I hope

Looking awesome by the way


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## Toxic (Jul 9, 2012)

nice little fan. where did you buy it?


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Toxic said:


> nice little fan. where did you buy it?


You can find them on ebay if you look up 48mm 12v fans. I also saw some 75mm fans that might work out on 3" coupling. May be worth considering for those who want large fans.

Jae.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

I mentioned those fans seemed pretty loud. It turns out most of that was because the entire top glass was vibrating caused by the fan mount. Testing out a new mounting solution, or rather my old mounting solution, it seemed to do the trick with a little foam in between. Yeah the mount is a bit dirty, but I think it shows what magnetic mounting can do!






Jae


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

azure89 said:


> Just wondering what inhabitants you have planned for these monsters, imitators of some sort I hope
> 
> Looking awesome by the way


Any suggestions? UE is bringing their next shipment in March. I'm thinking I'll probably wait till summer to buy. But they come though Detroit, so if I can pick up some of directly I will. 

Jae


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I think, given the size of this vivs, group frogs: 1. lamasi standard; 2. Arena Blanca; 3. fants or vanzolini. These for the three vivs.
But I would also consider some pums.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

It's the holidays and I have a cold along with both my kids. Plus I haven't found a solution I'm happy with to some of my engineering problems on these tanks. But I wanted to give you all a quick updates on them, although it will be mid January before I can get back to this.










So I took the bark I had lying around the house and tried titlebond, gorilla glue, and GE silicone to see what would work best to attach it to the coco fiber background. Silicone was the clear winner. Now in hindsight I should have tightened the space between pieces. But as I don't know how I plan to add moss and wanted a ledge for frogs to sit on, decided to leave it alone. My hope is still that whatever I plant will be able to adhere itself to the coco fiber background and continue it's climb to get closer to the light.

For the new year I ordered a crate of large virgin cork bark flats and 2"-4" cork bark tubes from http://www.marylandcork.com to continue my build. I have not hear of better suppliers for a large quality so I hope this was a good move.

Also after reading about bad experiences with dry mat moss and moss mix not working out, I decided to order a few wetpacks of moss from http://www.neherpetoculture.com. I figure it arrives live and ready to go, so why not try it. But any other suggestions are appreciated. 

My plan is to finish the background in only moss and cork bark. Then work on building a branch that appears to extend though all three tanks. After that I'll start thinking about other plans.

As always, advice is appreciated. And Happy New Year to all if I don't post before that.

Jae Le


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Looking good!!! Nice call on the live moss. Speeds things up for sure


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## Rasmus2809 (Jul 12, 2013)

Nice looking setup!  How do you power the fan? 
I am currently building a tank and i am a bit confused about the electricity and such.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Rasmus2809 said:


> Nice looking setup!  How do you power the fan?
> I am currently building a tank and i am a bit confused about the electricity and such.


I have a bunch of 12v 6a power adapters around the house:








Amazon.com: 12v 6a Adapter Power Supply for LCD Monitor with Power Cord: Computers & Accessories

You don't need 6amps with the fans but it's nice when you are also powering LEDs and other things. I usually get a Y cable to connect 8 devices to 1 power adapter.









Amazon.com: Female 2.1mm Jack to 8 Male 2.1mm Plugs CCTV Power Y Adapter: Camera & Photo

Then I use some female power jacks to hook all the fans to the power adapter:








Amazon.com: 10 Pack 2.1mm x 5.5mm Female CCTV Power Jack Adapter: Camera & Photo

This is assuming I don't need a speed controller which makes the whole process more difficult. If you don't want difficult, and the tanks are close together, this is the best way to go. Also get 50mm 2-pin fans. Accidentally reversing polarity will probably short out your 3-pins fans, and a 60mm fan or more is going to blow enough air at 12v to move leaves. That much may dry out your tanks rather than simply circulate air.

Jae Le


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## Rasmus2809 (Jul 12, 2013)

Thank you so much! It really helped me out a lot


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Moss and cork bark arrived today. Now I kinda wanna remove the bark I already put up.










So for starters I got a box of cork bark from marylandcork.com. I wasn't exactly sure how much was going to be in a box, or what to expect. I asked to big flat pieces and rounds 2-4" in width. The box that arrived cost around $130 and was big, but not all that heavy.










Inside were 7 flats each about 30" tall and over a dozen cork arounds about a foot long or larger. The photo is deceiving. These really are big!










I'm not sure how I'm going to break these up and mount them. Suggestions appreciated! Between the cork I've gotten four 12x12 wetpacks of moss from New England Herpetoculture.










I have way more than in the photo. It all looks happy and healthy and ready to be mounted. As to how to mount it between the cork, I still have no idea. Liquid nails? Any suggestions are appreciated. I'm actually headed out of town until the end of next week, so this stuff will have to sit until then.

Jae Le


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

konton said:


> I have way more than in the photo. It all looks happy and healthy and ready to be mounted. As to how to mount it between the cork, I still have no idea. Liquid nails? Any suggestions are appreciated. I'm actually headed out of town until the end of next week, so this stuff will have to sit until then.
> 
> Jae Le


Mount the moss?
I would just take chunks and press it on. I would leave space for it to grow in, but that depends on how much patience you have.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Stuff the gaps between the cork with sphagnum first. Then stuff your nice moss over top. It'll make your live moss go further, and the live moss will readily overtake the sphagnum


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

A pull saw cuts through cork like _butter_

10" Flush Cut Pull Saw


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## asully (Mar 3, 2011)

the easy led lighting worked out great for mt tank. thanks for the idea.


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## Athena (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm loving the cocomat background. I am following with interest to see how it grows in. Looks much nicer than filter media IMO.

Ikea never looked so fine!


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## Shedevil (Jan 12, 2014)

Very interesting start!!!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

So yesterday I got 3 cans of Total Pond Waterfall Foam Sealant and 2 bags of Hiawatha Green Moss from Home Depot. I got the black form sealant in fear the yellow of great stuff was too noticeable. Perhaps an overkill, but obviously you can hide black edges easier than yellow. I got the Hiawatha Green Moss rather than Sphagnum Moss since it just looks better and appeared to have no unnatural dyes.










The sheets of virgin bark I ripped apart since I didn't want a cut look. I put them back together with a 1/2-inch to 1-inch of space between, and made sure the cut rather than ripped pieces were used on the corners and edges. In the end there were a few places where 2-inches of space was left between the bark.










Silicone in the past wasn't filling us the space behind the cork bark because so much of it is curved. I thought foam sealant might do better. That stuff not only adheres well to the cork, but really get into the coco fiber background, and then expands to fill up the empty space. I was a bit too liberal in the first tank, but learned by lesson for the next two, leaving plenty of space to be filled by moss.










I'm still pretty happy with the coco fiber background since it provides more space for future roots to go. Plus as I stated, the foam sealant worked really well with it. Once it hardened I took the moss dry and pretty much shoved it into every crack I could find. I missed a few, but I still have moss left for those.










Once things settle I plan to add the live moss to the tank. I'm not quite sure if I should simply break it apart and simply shove it into the cracks. But I plan to focus on the top closer to the light. 

The next phase is building the branches. 

Jae Le


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

So the branch is supposed to make this a trifecta. It's supposed to add continuity between tanks. So is the background, but the branch more so. I cut a little here and maybe too much there, but this is how it's coming along.










I'm not totally sure how I'm supposed to mount this, or if I should fill the whole things with great stuff. But I wanted to make sure it wasn't too close to the front, while still allowing light to hit the background. I think the bottom will have to be leaf litter since the branch will really block the light.

Jae Le


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

That looks sweet. How are those lights treating you? Greening up your moss?


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

gturmindright said:


> That looks sweet. How are those lights treating you? Greening up your moss?


The lights are great! So far so good. The moss has only been in for a day so I can't really say. But the orchids have survived in the tank longer than they every had sitting around the house. 

I'm having more of a problem misting everything with a quad mister in the middle rather than four spaced out. I'm debating drilling more holes. The moss on the edges are not getting enough water. 

Jae Le


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

I should probably post this somewhere people can find it. I got bored and tried building a 60mm fan into my tanks. For this one I used the caps I had left from my foam sealant. Worked better than expected.






Jae Le


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

And it appears I'm now vlogging continuously. Well at least this video talks about designing the cork back background and cork bark branch.






Jae Le


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

It's all looking damn good! 

From my experience, I'd suggest filling in the cork tubes. I did something similar with a split 55 gallon I had. Unfortunately, the frogs find too much shelter in the tubes and not visible as much as I'd like. It leaves places that you can't reach if you needed too. I'm about to re-do that viv and will be filling them in.





-Chris


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Instead of filling the tubes with great stuff, why not fill with sphagnum or ABG and drill holes and fill cracks with plants and actually use the inner space to your advantage? 

Filling with great stuff seems like a wasted opportunity


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

frogparty said:


> Instead of filling the tubes with great stuff, why not fill with sphagnum or ABG and drill holes and fill cracks with plants and actually use the inner space to your advantage?
> 
> Filling with great stuff seems like a wasted opportunity


Very fine point! I love it!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Can anyone give me suggestions on how to wrap the moss around areas of the cork rounds?

Also I'm fine with filling the brach full of moss and ABG mix, but can I get a few suggestions of what plants to buy? 

Thanks! I've been working on final placement using as many rounds as I have left. It's looking good, except for where I need to hide my working connecting different rounds.

Jae Le


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

More movement on the finished placement of the branch and adding to the bottom of the tank.






Again, I'd love to hear how others placed moss on the bark as well as other plants. And any plant suggestions are always welcome!

Jae Le


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## lookitsadam (Jul 1, 2013)

I use toothpicks and cut them to size in order to hold plants to cork. You could also use some sewing thread to tie them in place until they take root


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

Looking great, do you think the cocofiber matt will break down quickly?


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

singhm29 said:


> Looking great, do you think the cocofiber matt will break down quickly?


No. It's part coco fiber and part rubber tree. But I guess I can start the clock as of this year and I'll let you know when things start to fall apart.

I'm not totally happy with the look at the moment, but I think things will shape up once I have a few plants in there that have been given time to grow in.

Jae Le


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

So how are the lights working so far? You have two units on each tank right? Probably too soon to tell but can you see any moss growth?


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Trial and error. Much of the moss died. But that may have been due to shipping in cold weather and then taking over a week to replant (much was brown when I finally did plant). After planting I made the mistake of letting my internal air-circulation run 24/7. That caused more drying of the moss than expected. But I'm learning and now that the fans are gone the moss seems to be doing better. I can see growth towards the light.

Jae Le


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Update on things. I planted a few months ago, testing out some different ideas. I've never had tanks this large before. 20 gallons are as high as I've gone. So this has all been a learning curve.










I have to say it's really hard to find tropical plants in Michigan during the winter. I managed to get a few things I have been wanting to test, but not as much as I wanted. Some worked, and some didn't. For example the moss I got doesn't seem to be good for vertical tanks. Most of it died and the rest grows up in long strands and then turns brown, probably because of lack of moisture. 










The misting has to be changed to get to the edges of the tank, and still, it's not getting much water to the bottom because of the branch. The air-circulation system was too fast, drying everything up. I'm working on a better timed system. Without it you can see how hot the top of the tank is compared to the bottom.

Also, I had to move my tanks to another room and rebuild the lighting system. In the end I decided to take my led modules built on heat sinks and mount them onto t-slotted extrusions. It actually worked pretty well. I think the open airflow actually keeps the system cooler, than when it taped on something.










I need to do something about all the cables. 

It could be worse. The broms are doing well. They are generally all partially red because of a good amount of light. Every month I have a good crop of pups to remount. The live spag moss I was testing is growing very slowly, and the vines are really coming in. Ivy grows fast and I love the root systems all over the bark.










I still don't know what frogs to put in here. Any suggestions?

Jae Le


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

Get a controller for your fans and then you can turn them up and down. 

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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm not a fan of cork tubes (I'm removing them from my vivs), but these your trifecta are gorgeous! Great job!
About frogs, I have the same opinion as before (previous page): a nice group of ranitomeya for each viv.


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## lookitsadam (Jul 1, 2013)

Personally I would get three different types of pumilio and put a group in each tank


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

Red galacs on one end yellow on the other end with orange in the middle. Sounds perfect!

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## darterfrog4774 (Apr 24, 2014)

Wow!!! This is amazing!! Now I know whats happening to that old 55 gallon aquarium... hehehe.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks everyone. I'll post more if I add any additional plants. I'm also thinking of going with pumilio. three different types. Any suggestions?


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I love Solarte: always out and about, bold, and they sing their hearts out. But Cristobal or Almirante are also a good choice.
I would add a nice pair of Bastimentos and a pair of blue pums, as Cauchero, Esperanza, Punta Clara (a little too shy), Ryan and the like. Or maybe Oophaga sp. Escudo.
But in this size tank you can put whatever you want.


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## waynowon (Jun 2, 2007)

Almirante (red), cauchero(blue), and popa(green). That's what I went with ,and have been very happy


Cauchero1.1.0,Almirante2.2.2,Popa1.2.0,Benedicta1.2.0,Vanzolini 2.2.0,Standard Imitator1.1.1,Azureus0.0.3


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Can anyone suggest the best place to get pumilio? Otherwise I may end up getting something from UE. Do these tanks look okay for summersi?










Nice to see how the tanks has grown in over a few months. I didn't realize how red my broms were getting. I'm about due to replant more pups.

Jae Le


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I think summersi would love one of those tanks!!


They are looking great, nice to see them all grown in


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Nothing prevents to put in a tank ranitomeya and in the other two pums: I would put summersi in a tank, some red pumilio in the second and in the third ... whatever you want!
I ask you if you left Coco mat and leaves on the bottom, as you were saying above, or you've added ABG mix or some other mix.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

With tanks that size and with that layout, you can put whatever you want in there.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Nicely done!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

rigel10 said:


> Nothing prevents to put in a tank ranitomeya and in the other two pums: I would put summersi in a tank, some red pumilio in the second and in the third ... whatever you want!
> I ask you if you left Coco mat and leaves on the bottom, as you were saying above, or you've added ABG mix or some other mix.


Sorry, I didn't see the question before. There is 2 inches of growstones, then the coco fiber matt. Above that is drier style ABG mix with a few oak leaves on top. My past tanks had very soggy bottoms. I was trying to avoid that in this new build. 

In my mind if I go pumilio I'd like to keep it all that way. But you're right. It's not necessary.

Here are a few more pics. I just recently added more plants at the bottom.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks! These pics are stunning!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

frogparty said:


> With tanks that size and with that layout, you can put whatever you want in there.


Really? I kinda thought there are many frogs that wouldn't be able to get up on the branch. So I'd have to go with more arboreal frogs. 

Jae Le


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

they can ALL climb backgrounds, and the glass to that high


You are NOT limited to arboreal frogs, although they might make better use of the space. 


The viv on the left, and the one in the center especially. Id put some fine spot leucs in one! The one on the left


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

frogparty said:


> they can ALL climb backgrounds, and the glass to that high
> 
> 
> You are NOT limited to arboreal frogs, although they might make better use of the space.
> ...


I used to have these Leucs and they were never able to climb anything. Their tanks had to have angled areas to help them to the next level. I really doubt they could make it to any branch in this tank. Having said that, they were great frogs.

I'm considering the Red Blue Green approach with pumilio. Red - cristobal, Blue - cauchero, and Green - punta laurent. Would an almirante be better for the Red? I really like punta laurent for the Green. I'm also looking at colubre for the Blue.

Jae Le


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

konton said:


> I used to have these Leucs and they were never able to climb anything. Their tanks had to have angled areas to help them to the next level. I really doubt they could make it to any branch in this tank. Having said that, they were great frogs.
> 
> I'm considering the Red Blue Green approach with pumilio. Red - cristobal, Blue - cauchero, and Green - punta laurent. Would an almirante be better for the Red? I really like punta laurent for the Green. I'm also looking at colubre for the Blue.
> 
> Jae Le




All for the pum layout. Almirante and cristo's are good choices for the red. If you can get colubre for the blue I'll give ya a high five! Lol nobody's getting rid of those right now


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

The Colubre price is pretty high. Perhaps as someone who hasn't really breed anything specifically to sell, it's not worth the initial cost. Plus I'm working on building 15 gallon growout tanks. Those would probably be better for thumbnails rather than pumilio. Or maybe I'm over thinking it.

Jae Le


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

put something bigger in that tank on the left!!


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

The prices are steep but I wouldnt let that keep you away from pumilio.... Just find a different locale there are many, many stunning locales that would do great in those tanks.....Although Ranitomeya are as awesome well worth every penny.

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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

Azurel said:


> The prices are steep but I wouldnt let that keep you away from pumilio.... Just find a different locale there are many, many stunning locales that would do great in those tanks.....Although Ranitomeya are as awesome well worth every penny.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes the Colubre price was higher than I could afford. I decided to go with a breeding group of Christobal to start. Azurel, once I have some offspring maybe you'll be interested in trading to get some sexed pairs from different parents.










Now which tank do I put them in . . .


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

I have those same lights and im starting to have problems with them going dim sometimes. You?

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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

konton said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes the Colubre price was higher than I could afford. I decided to go with a breeding group of Christobal to start. Azurel, once I have some offspring maybe you'll be interested in trading to get some sexed pairs from different parents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are good looking frogs.....yeah man hit me up when you have sone thing.

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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Colors of these frogs are stunning! You made a good choice! What other frogs?


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

gturmindright said:


> I have those same lights and im starting to have problems with them going dim sometimes. You?


Nope. They've been working well for me. I'd contact Tim about that. I don't remember what his warranty is, but it sounds like one bad LED effecting the other two. They've been working so well I was thinking about buying 9 more modules for a new rack system. You're welcome to come check them out some weekend. I think you live only 10 miles away from me. 



rigel10 said:


> Colors of these frogs are stunning! You made a good choice! What other frogs?


It was the colors that did it. Those were amazingly red. I hope the real thing is just as stunning. I'm going to hold off and see how it goes with these 4. If I don't continue with O. pumilio, I'll probably get some R. summersi from UE when they ship in September. Maybe some R. imitator 'Baja Huallaga' since I'd like to try with imitators one more time. But I'm always open to suggestions of frogs I haven't really researched. Whatever I get I'd like them to be able to make use of all the broms. 

Jae Le


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Man they turned out awesome! Great transition! gives me ideas much to my wife's detriment! lol


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

konton said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions. Yes the Colubre price was higher than I could afford. I decided to go with a breeding group of Christobal to start. Azurel, once I have some offspring maybe you'll be interested in trading to get some sexed pairs from different parents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The tanks look great... and those frogs are beautiful!


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

eos said:


> The tanks look great... and those frogs are beautiful!


Well they arrived bright and early this morning. I was woken up by a nudge from my wife who promptly shoved a package in my face and said, "Your frogs are here." Interesting packaging by Shawn. I've never seen them brought in separate containers, but I can see how this is much safer.










It's amazing how different lighting conditions and kelvin temp will effect the color the frogs will appear. In real life they are much less red. But this is how all four looked in the tank an hour later.































Can't you get vitamin supplements that help redden them up? Eventually I'll work on getting some better posing. 

















One tank down. two to go.

Jae Le


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

konton said:


> Well they arrived bright and early this morning. I was woken up by a nudge from my wife who promptly shoved a package in my face and said, "Your frogs are here." Interesting packaging by Shawn. I've never seen them brought in separate containers, but I can see how this is much safer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cristobal is one of my favorites....Superpig will help enhance the color but I doubt they will get to be that cherry red like in the original pictures...Flash from the camera helped enhance the color.....

They are a great looking group of frogs....

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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

konton said:


> Well they arrived bright and early this morning. I was woken up by a nudge from my wife who promptly shoved a package in my face and said, "Your frogs are here." Interesting packaging by Shawn. I've never seen them brought in separate containers, but I can see how this is much safer.
> 
> Your reality would be my dream: to wake up and to find myself in front of the eyes, flesh and blood, frogs I want. Unfortunately it is not possible here! I have to make hundreds and hundreds of miles to pick up my frogs!
> About the color of the frogs, also depends on the lights of the viv. For example, I recently changed lights of my Solarte viv and frogs now appear more orange than red (as they were before). (Strange though that Almirante, in the same light, they kept the red).
> Cristobal are great frogs, very bold. I love mine!


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

Those look sweet!

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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

rigel10 said:


> Your reality would be my dream: to wake up and to find myself in front of the eyes, flesh and blood, frogs I want. Unfortunately it is not possible here! I have to make hundreds and hundreds of miles to pick up my frogs!
> About the color of the frogs, also depends on the lights of the viv. For example, I recently changed lights of my Solarte viv and frogs now appear more orange than red (as they were before). (Strange though that Almirante, in the same light, they kept the red).
> Cristobal are great frogs, very bold. I love mine!


Wait. What's hundreds of miles away? A breeder? So what Kelvin did you change your lights to be? Mine are 5000k.

On a side note the male called today. This is him:










Why does my male look like he's got mascara on? Augh. Anyway, nice to hear him calling. May the breeding begin!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Here it is not possible to ship live animals (except shrimps and tropical fish). So we, Italian froggers, need to do thousands of miles to pick up our frogs. 
As for the lights, I bought t5 to the local hardware store: they are labeled as "cold light", but have a more light violet color of the old t5, which was 6400° K. 
I also have LED lights of a famous brand (making a dim light) on my vivs, with white and blue leds.


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

rigel10 said:


> Here it is not possible to ship live animals (except shrimps and tropical fish). So we, Italian froggers, need to do thousands of miles to pick up our frogs.
> As for the lights, I bought t5 to the local hardware store: they are labeled as "cold light", but have a more light violet color of the old t5, which was 6400° K.
> I also have LED lights of a famous brand (making a dim light) on my vivs, with white and blue leds.


At 6400K your getting way more blue, and quite a bit less red. 5000k is about as low as I'll go in fear my plants would start dying off.

I ordered from Shawn on the 13th. They arrived on the 15th. I heard calling of the male by the 16th. Found frog spawn by the 18th!










Nice. Worth paying a little extra for a breeding group from a reputable source


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

Plants use the red end of the spectrum more effectively. I prefer 35k because its shifted more to the red side. Unfortunately he does offer these in warm white yet.

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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

This is my Solarte male: first pic = old light; second pic = new light (labeled as "cold light"). Now he is much more orange! (Sorry for posting these crappy pictures in your thread).


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

rigel10 said:


> This is my Solarte male: first pic = old light; second pic = new light (labeled as "cold light"). Now he is much more orange! (Sorry for posting these crappy pictures in your thread).


I hope my frogs get as fat and sassy as those. I don't think you need to use such cold lights. But it's good for your plants to have all that blue. 



gturmindright said:


> Plants use the red end of the spectrum more effectively. I prefer 35k because its shifted more to the red side. Unfortunately he does offer these in warm white yet.


Wait. What? I think you mean blue. Blue light supports the vegetative state and promotes leaf growth. Most growers go with 6500K (cold light), but I prefer 5000K since I want something that looks more like daylight. 3200K is the yellow incandescent lighting. That's not going to help your plants grow. Red is good for certain plants and great for blooming.

Jae Le


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

While you've all seen my tanks at full lighting during the day, my tanks in the evening switch to one cold white focused LED ring. You know, just to get the mood going in there:

















I think this guy like the mood lighting. I hear quite a number of calls after the lights come down.










Jae Le


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## konton (Nov 17, 2010)

This will be my last post to this thread, since I won't be doing much more with these tanks than I'm already doing now. I love building tanks, and in many ways they are much easier than raising the frogs in them! My 3D printer should be arriving next week, which will spur me on my new focus of building tank frames, background, false bottoms, and a number of other items for this hobby.










The Pumilio group I have is doing well. They don't seem to like me watching them eat. So while I have never seen them eat, I can only assume they have. The females are pretty big and fat these days, laying eggs all over. The female in this photo was spending the day breaking her tads out of their yoke.

I'm holding off getting any further tenants until I know the Pumilo are doing well. But I look at these empty tanks, full of springtails bouncing off the walls, any all the fruit fly cultures not being eaten, it makes me think they are just being wasted. I may end of taking the group of 4, and putting all the females into separate tanks, just so they have all the room to enjoy themselves.

Oh, what to do.

Jae Le


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## harrisbt (Feb 19, 2013)

If you sparsely populate the tanks, the food source should never deplete. GET MORE FROGS (preferably ones that let you watch them eat).


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