# Canada Day Weekend Build! : Clay Background Method



## GRIMM

So first off let me say something serious.....Goodbye GS Foam, I will not miss you. Now let’s take a moment of silence to remember....................... K that is enough.

Sooooo Long weekend has hit and it got me motivated to try something “new” for myself. I did a clay background if you haven’t guessed already. 

First off, here is the clay I used, its “special” lol. Got it from Wal-Mart and each 11kg box was 5-6$. I’m pretty sure they come larger but I didn’t bring a pickup truck and this stuff is heavy! I dumped about 7kgs into a large bucket and filled it with water 2” above the surface of clay and let it sit overnight.


















Once I mixed the clay as best I could I began taking chunks out and mixing my substrate into it. I did the mixing by eye, I did not measure, and made softball sixed mixtures at a time due to it being very thick and difficult to mix a lot at a time. I used about one full handful of clay, 1 handful of peat moss, and ½ handfuls of eco earth substrate and mulched sphagnum. 

MMMMM....Sphagnum smoothie anyone???









Then I needed to kneed kneed kneed until no grey clay flakes were visible...This is what I ended up with...Pure gold imo, and it costs less then any other BG method I’ve tried so far!!! 









Then I threw the ball in another large bucket and continued making small batches until my arms looked like Popeye’s. Now that the mixture was finished, I started my false bottom....


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## GRIMM

Here is my “typical” egg crate false bottom. I started by cutting out all the separate pieces, then zip-tying them together. The 2nd picture from above shows the ¾” gap I left on each side and front from the glass to the FB.

















I then wrapped the entire “box” like a Christmas present in a weed control landscape fabric, and then added the 2 pieces of egg crate to form the false “back”. Like all FBs done this way, it will allow me to access my pump if it becomes clogged or fails.









Here is my pump setup. I have various different diameter hoses fit snugly together to graduate down to a 1/4" OD hose from the provided 3/8” ID output. I then used a “Quick Connect T” to give myself 2 outputs of water to snake through my BG. This is also super handy if the pump fails. If it does, then all I have to do is unclip the quick connect and replace the pump while keeping all my water lines intact.









Now that the false bottom was completed, it was time to head inside......


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## GRIMM

There isn’t much explanation to be done here, the pictures do most of the talking.
1st I added the drainage rocks around my FB.








Then I began to add the clay mixture straight onto the glass and egg crate. Added a few doodads...And voila! Here is my progress as of tonight. 

















Oh dear, look how barren my brand new racking system is  ....Oh well, guess I gotta build more tanks to fill it in! 









I still need to make more of the clay mixture since I ran out tonight. I will be adding to the background to hide the square shape from my pump access box. I will also be adding another piece of driftwood to go ½ ways across the viv ending in the water feature. It will act as the stream, and will be using the 2nd water hose that is currently unconnected. I havent found the perfect piece just yet, but my local aquarium shop should have gotten in a fresh shipment today.

Hope you guys/gals are enjoying this build, I know I havent had more fun then this thus far! Stay tuned!


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## frogface

Another awesome 'clay' testimonial. Great work!


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## Smashtoad

That is going to be a beautiful tank...can't wait to see it planted.


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## Vermfly

WOW! That looks fantastic.


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## gilliusis

Hi,
very nice work, but work quickly to see the result ......!!
I have never used clay in my tank, clay is not too heavy?


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## GRIMM

Thanks for the comments. I'm definately having a good time with this clay. I may have to make a BG for my 10 galon while I'm at it.



gilliusis said:


> Hi,
> very nice work, but work quickly to see the result ......!!
> I have never used clay in my building, clay is not too heavy?


Haha hey now, all that work was done in 2 days...Including an insane amount of driving around to buy all my supplies and material. 

Ive still got to find a perfect piece of mayasian driftwood for the 2nd water feature before I can finish up the BG. Hopefully my local shop gets some in soon!


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## jeffr

gilliusis said:


> Hi,
> very nice work, but work quickly to see the result ......!!
> I have never used clay in my tank, clay is not too heavy?



oh yeah its heavy


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## GRIMM

Think of clay like aquarium gravel...except in doesnt have all the air gaps in between rocks haha.


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## GRIMM

Here are a few pics from my progress today....I found the perfect piece of driftwood, installed it, then added a few details, and mixed my substrate. I used roughtly these quantities...
-2 cups eco earth
-1 cup peat moss
-1/2 cup charcoal
-1/2 cup orchid bark
-1/2 cup milled sphagnum


























Im looking for a lot more java and riccia moss for ground cover and the water feature. The add leaf litter below the grapevine stream. Then my plan is to have the entire back wall covered in vines before I add a few small broms/neos. Hopefully it turns out looking ok.


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## Arizona Tropicals

GRIMM said:


> Im looking for a lot more java and riccia moss for ground cover and the water feature. The add leaf litter below the grapevine stream. Then my plan is to have the entire back wall covered in vines before I add a few small broms/neos. Hopefully it turns out looking ok.


I think it looks great and will look even better with the plant layout you've chosen. Looking forward to seeing this one finished up!


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## carola1155

looking great so far... cant wait to see it planted


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## weta

That driftwood stream/water feature looks awesome. Nice background too.


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## dendro-dude

Nice layout. The background is very nice. 
Water feature looks good.
Can't wait to see it planted!


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## GRIMM

Thanks for all the compliments everybody.

So, I typically use malasian driftwood and this is my 1st time trying out grapevine....Apparently the wood is "fuzzy" and does not stick very well to the clay. As a result it has been slowly sliding out of place over the past 2 days. I'll be fixing that up shortly by removing the piece and attempting to scrub all the fuzzy fibers off the wood. Then when I reinstall it, I'll use more clay for added support. I have had the water feature turned off for 2 day, and havent misted the tank either. So far the clay is holding it's moisture perfectly and hasnt started to crack at all. Im sure under normal misting conditions it wont have a problem either.

And if anyone is curious...This clay mixture made with Special Kitty WILL NOT hold up to being constantly submerged, or have running water over it. I did a small experiment by making a pyramid of clay in a bowl, with a tube connected to a pump supplying a constant flow to the top of it....After 1 night it was very slimy and had started dissolving off into the water. Good thing I ensured no clay would be in constant contact with water in this viv!


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## carola1155

Did you let that clay sit and cure for a while before you started to run water back over it? I used it to plug a spot in a waterfall in one of my tanks and it seems to be holding up well... but I turned the waterfall off for 2 days to let the clay cure a bit first.


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## GRIMM

The clay I used in my little experiment had been sitting in a bag for 2 days prior...But I did not let it cure by itself in open air. 

Honestly though, it seems my clay mixture has been much tougher and less watter logged then most other peoples and I'm not sure if it could cure that much more without becomming dry. It was about the same density and toughness as fresh scultpting clay when I was finished mixing all my substrate with it. I finished mixing it up, then immediately added it to my background as it sat in its normal upright position 5 minutes later.


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## carola1155

that toughness could have simply been due to a lower water content... so curing still could have been an important step... i dunno, it seems as though there have been a lot of inconsistencies with this special kitty stuff... but hey, @25lbs for $2.98 who is gonna complain? haha


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## GRIMM

So I did a little work last night and actually ended taking a couple steps backward, then one forward.








The grapevine had some fuzzies, and it also began to mold slightly. This is because I was too excited to complete my build and forgot to boil/bake my wood. However taking it out was not a problem at all. The clay makes background modifications super easy! Once my wood was finished boiling and baking dry, I added some silicone into a few of the small cracks and holes to prevent it from dripping into my substrate. If you notice my tubing needed to be lengthened because there were a cracks near the top of the wood. Now that they have been filled, I will have a longer “stream” of water and more possible moss growing sites. Then I added about 1” of thickness to the background underneath the mounting points of the grapevine to make sure it doesn’t slide out of place again. 
As for the plants, I added some Ficus Pumila “oak leaf” to the left and 2 types of faster growing Ivy to the right sides. Hopefully I’ll be able to pin them to the background above my water feature over time.
Quick question....The right side of my tank at the water feature obviously has no substrate. I was hoping to have vine growth covering every inch of the clay, however I don’t know what would work best near water feature. What do you guys suggest? I was thinking of taking a few healthy vine clippings and sticking the ends into the background, but I’m not certain this will be successful at all...Thoughts, ideas?


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## carola1155

you would be fine pinning some clippings straight into the background, I wouldnt worry too much about trying to "plant" them in the substrate. Also, something like creeping fig wont mind a lot of moisture... I frequently have to cut mine back from taking over a waterfall in one of my tanks.

Also, in my recent clay background I pinned up some dischidia "million hearts" about a week ago and it already has good root growth. All I did was take two little balls of clay and pressed them at each end of the clipping on the stem part.


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## GRIMM

K quick update...

So apparently no one at the pet store, or 3 of the forums I am a member of mentioned that Grapevine is NOT recommended for vivaria. I’ve had the tank running the entire week, with regular misting and it already has 2 different types of mold blooming all over it. I boiled and baked it before adding it to the viv; it’s just that the wood does terribly when constantly moist.

So this weekend I will be exchanging that piece with a piece of Mopani, then I will be adding more vines, moss, and newly acquired broms into the viv. 

I am also doing a wetness durability test using a large clump of clay that I let sit/cure inside my viv over the past 3 days. So far it is holding it's shape to a constant flow, however it has flaked a little bit and the outside has become very soft. Also, it seems that some of the peat is washing off of the clay and exposing some of the clay pellets that did not mix 100%. I'll be keeping it going overnight to see how well the rest holds up. As of right now, I do not suggest using this in constant contact with water.

I'll keep everyone updated as it comes along this weekend.


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## Vermfly

Grapewood tends to mold in the beginning but I've heard if you give it a chance and get some springtails established it will clear up with time.


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## GRIMM

I remember seing that also, however it also has another problem...Its isnt dense enough, and has to many minute cracks in the surface to act as a "stream"

Ive tried patching the inside and bottom of the wood with silicone, however it continues to drip into my substrate. I think the piece of mopani will look quite good as a replacement. It has a lot of crevices I can use to mount some smaller aquatic plants into, aswell as broms in the upper sections that will not be wet. I saw some Anubias Nana Petite at my local aquarium shop and love the way it looks...Too bad it is 17$ each for a tiny plant. I'll be looking around for local enthusiasts that have some for sale.


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## zachxbass

$17 a piece!?!?! ridiculous. The fish shop i used to work @ (until we closed about a month ago) sold them between $5 - $8, depending on the supplier. It is a sweet plant though. Extremely slow growing, but very hardy. You can grow it underwater, partially submerged, or terrestrial ( as long as it stay moist) Plus you can grow it on rocks, driftwood, in gravel, or soil. 

Your tank looks great BTW! 

I haven't been on here in a very long time so this is the first time seeing the clay background method. I like it though. Worst case scenario, if it does break down after a year... just slap some more clay on. I may try this soon.


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## GRIMM

Thanks bud.

And luckily I found a woman locally that has a small nana plant I can start off with. And she is also selling me a handful of round leaf pellia, and some singapore moss, all for 20$ shipped. Not bad 

And Ive been having a few problems with this tank, but I'll soon be on my way once I get my brom/leaf litter order tomorrow! So excited!


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## Brotherly Monkey

Can someone point me to a good resource on clay backgrounds?

Also, wouldn't it be possible to layer the clay over an under layer of GS, to help keep the weight more manageable?


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## GRIMM

Just search "clay backgrounds" and you will find a ton of stuff on here.

And you could use the clay as a covering layer, but in a viv this small there is no point. In my opinion, the biggest tank you would want to use caly by itself in would be around 40-50 galons, any bigger and you would need 2-3 people to move it. (my 20 galon tank it getting almost to heavy for me to move alone lol) I also think that if you were to have it as a covering layer, that it should be no thinner then 3/4" of an inch.


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## GRIMM

Update 



















Dont forget to subscribe for more wicked awesome videos! Haha
YouTube - Clay Background Dart Viv : Update 1


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## mellowvision

really nice job.

Thanks for the video. It really puts things into perspective. I've been considering using clay for a paludarium background... but sounds like it might be too much water for it.

do you think hardening the clay would allow it to be used at the waterline, or do you think it's just asking for trouble?


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## Mikembo

Awsome looking viv!!!! After seeing this I think I'm sold on trying the "kitty litter" background.

-Mike-


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## GRIMM

mellowvision said:


> really nice job.
> 
> Thanks for the video. It really puts things into perspective. I've been considering using clay for a paludarium background... but sounds like it might be too much water for it.
> 
> do you think hardening the clay would allow it to be used at the waterline, or do you think it's just asking for trouble?


Thanks for the compliments.

And I dont think it would be worth creating a shoreline from the clay. It MAY work, if you gave it enough curring time, however it would be best to do a test before.

I had run a simple test using this clay. I made a small pyramid out of it, then let it sit inside the viv for 3 days to cure...I then let the pyramid sit under a very slow running tap for 4 hours. It bagan to flake, and turned into a sloppy mess. I definately dont recommend using it in its soft form for a water feature. I cant give it enough positive feedback for a simple background however. So easy to use and modify as you can see from the changes I had to make.


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## KittenRD

I am very interested in this. Can I do just plan clay and no moss mixed in? Also, after it has harden, can I run water down it?
Thanks.


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## GRIMM

^^^ Read my above post


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## GRIMM

Update : "Completed"

Hers a video with me blabbering about the plants used in this build...
YouTube - Clay Dart Viv : Completed

And on to some pics.





































Im going to add a few more broms, some miniature orchids, and other small cuttings over time. But this is pretty much it for now until it grows in a bit. Once fully planted, I'll hit everything with a dry ice bomb, then add my springs, and a trio of "Borja Ridge" Ventrimaculatas near the end of august after my mexico trip. I found someone in my city that has a bunch of vents about 1 week from comming out of the water!  Looking forward to starting my small collection of darts.


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## meow

Look at you....all over the place!


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## TheFallen

This could be a noob question but what do you mean by "I'll hit everything with a dry ice bomb"?


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## carola1155

TheFallen said:


> This could be a noob question but what do you mean by "I'll hit everything with a dry ice bomb"?


It means he is going to put some dry ice in there in order to kill any insects... It overloads the tank with CO2 so the plants live but nothing else does...

I don't exactly know if it is 100% necessary though...


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## dom

Great looking tank ! Is there any reason you are planning on doing a co2 bomb? or is it just for a precaution? Srry if you already mentioned this its been a long day and I kinda jumped around the thread looking at your pictures and not reading much


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## MichelleSG

Is that moss all java moss? It looks very lush!


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## GRIMM

Thanks for the comments. I'm really looking forward to getting a couple more nicer broms and some mini orchids. Also to let the background vines grow-in to create the carpet effect I love seing in other vivs. 

As for the CO2 bomb, I may do it since Ive seen a couple tiny flies. Even though I rinsed off all roots of soil, and used my own fresh soil mixture, there are still little critters inside. I also want to make sure no slugs start taking over like in my other large viv (that I didnt use CO2 on) They munch on plants and make them look terrible.

And yes it is mostly all Java..If you watch my youtube video I go over all the plants that I used to date (I suck at naming plants but I did my best)

And holy moly do Oak leaves ever decompose quickly! They will be gone within the week. I want some magnolia in Canada! haha


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## calebrez

Bravo Grimm! Man am I kicking myself in the bum for ditchin the waterfall lol o well! What plants are you planning on adding? Man once again bravo! I have a 65 gallon I'm contiplating on making it a vert or just using it as normal I may be pmin you for help Haha! What are you planning on putting in there?


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## GRIMM

Here is the list of small orchids I will be getting. I'll probably put the 2 smallest species in this tank***, aswell as one bulb from the Bulbophyllum*

*1 Bulbophyllum Sumatranum A-Doribil
***1 Haraella Retrocalla
***1 Onc. Red Mini "Little Cherry"
1 Phal Lui's Rainbow

I'll have to make sure I get a small ventillation fan going before adding them. Ive been told that these orchids do quite well in low circulation tanks, and their blooms are nicer this way, however I am more concerned with keeping temps down and the air fresh. Im sure it will only have a positive impact on all my plant growth anyways.


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## jlb

What size tank is this? 20 high? I really like what you have done. I have a 10 gallon collecting dust that I may try this method out. Has cracking been a problem. A few of the other threads I have searched mentioned this.


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## GRIMM

calebrez said:


> Bravo Grimm! Man am I kicking myself in the bum for ditchin the waterfall lol o well! What plants are you planning on adding? Man once again bravo! I have a 65 gallon I'm contiplating on making it a vert or just using it as normal I may be pmin you for help Haha! What are you planning on putting in there?


Lol I forgot to say thanks, and to say that I will be putting a trio of Borja Ridge Vents in here.


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## GRIMM

jlb said:


> What size tank is this? 20 high? I really like what you have done. I have a 10 gallon collecting dust that I may try this method out. Has cracking been a problem. A few of the other threads I have searched mentioned this.


Thanks! The cracking isnt an issue, just as long as you dont forget to close the top for 24 hours haha

It has been doing great though. No cracking since I started remembering to close the top tightly. I may have to return the sliding tops I have and get some glass custom cut. I think a hinged top will be easier then the sliders, and it will provide a better seal around the top perimeter. I dont want ANY FF's getting out. I know its inevitable, but I'll try my best anyways.


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## jlb

Just finished watching your youtube videos. Excellent! I have a few questions though. If I understand this process correctly, the humidity in this tank needs to stay high enough to keep the clay moist to prevent drying out? You mentioned fans to assist in plant/animal health in your video. Won't the addition of a fan lower humidity and dry out the clay. 

Sorry for all the questions. I am just excited about this method and I want to get it correct the first time.

Thanks!


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## GRIMM

jlb said:


> Just finished watching your youtube videos. Excellent! I have a few questions though. If I understand this process correctly, the humidity in this tank needs to stay high enough to keep the clay moist to prevent drying out? You mentioned fans to assist in plant/animal health in your video. Won't the addition of a fan lower humidity and dry out the clay.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. I am just excited about this method and I want to get it correct the first time.
> 
> Thanks!


Thanks for the compliments

As for the fan, as long as outside air isnt being pushed into the viv, the humidity will stay high, and even throughout the viv. The fan is for circulation, not ventillation. The only time fresh air will be brought into the viv is when I do my daily misting, feeding, and when I just wanna stick my head inside and look around


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## jlb

Oh. That makes sense. I have a 10 gal that I plan to start with and a 55 collecting dust in the garage. If the 10 works out I may try this with the 55 too. If if don't work out it is just kitty litter...


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## fleshfrombone

Update! Did you get those orchids?


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## Philsuma

Great build thread - one of the best I've seen.......5 stars


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## GRIMM

Philsuma said:


> Great build thread - one of the best I've seen.......5 stars


Not to toot my own horn...But its about to get better  

Got the orchids today, and now I'm just in the middle of uploading and editing for a picture heavy update later tonight using my new camera!


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## GRIMM

Picture Heavy Update!
Here is my tank as of tonight. I added some moss, 2 miniature orchids, some bacopa vine, 3 earth stars and probably a few other plants, but I can’t remember which one since my last update. I’ll do my best naming each plant before the separate pictures. 




























The moss is mostly java, however I received a bag full of various different types today, so I spread them around to help give some inconsistency.



























Haraella Retrocalla Orchid









Plah. Luis Rainbow “Orchis”









Anubias Nana “Petite”









Polka Dot, getting some good colour now.









Button Fern, new growth









Aquatic Bacopa flower (not sure what species). These vines are growing out of the water feature.









Pup throwing down some new roots, very quickly. To the left is some Round Leaf Pellia.









New pup growth









And I didn’t plant this little guy  Hopefully the first of many random plants that come from the background!









I’m very happy with my tank so far, and I can’t wait to let the background fill in. I like to think my selection of plants makes this viv look a lot larger than 20 gallons. It came at a steep price for me up here in Canada, but I think it was worth it!


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## Arizona Tropicals

Looks great, well done! I love the look of this viv!


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## GRIMM

TheHamr said:


> Looks great, well done! I love the look of this viv!


Thanks for the compliment!

Here are some pics of 2 of the 3 babies I will be putting in this tank. Sorry for the crappy shots. Im still figuring out how to take macro shots, in low lighting, without a tripod, and without setup time  These were all taken at the place where I will be getting them near the end of august, or early september.

Oldest, just climbed out of the water 1 day ago. Still has some tail but you cant see it.









Here is the 2nd, very close to comming out of the water.









And the proud mommy!


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## frogface

Very nice! Beautiful little froglets.


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## GRIMM

frogface said:


> Very nice! Beautiful little froglets.


Thanks!
Apparently 2 of the 3 froglets are now out and about on land and eating lots. The 3rd one seem to be morphing much slower then the other 2. When I went to check them out, it hadnt even popped its front legs yet. Its odd how tads from the same clutch will mature quicker then others. I may have to wait another month until I pick up the 3rd froglet just to make sure it is doing well. In any case, I'm looking forward to getting them once I get back from my trip. I dumped a few springs into the tank last night, hopefully over the next few weeks they will multiply.


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## GRIMM

Well I got back from my 10 day holiday in Mexico, and I was very happy with the progress over the short period of time. I figured I’d give any picture hungry members something to look at. 

















Pardon the many pictures of moss growth....It’s just that I’ve never had any success with it before, and I’M HAPPY! It’s going to be at the point where I’ll either have to start hacking it out, or get some frogs to trample it down. Not a bad problem to have  




































Earth start throwing down roots. Must like it’s location.









Here is some moss growing right from the background. Very happy with this, and I’m looking forward to a wall of green.









Brom showing some deep red from the center now.


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## ryangreenway

GRIMM said:


> Here is some moss growing right from the background. Very happy with this, and I’m looking forward to a wall of green.


My clay's doing the same thing, I love it!


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## Brien

what kind of moss is this?


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## GRIMM

brien said:


> what kind of moss is this?


Im not quite sure to which moss you are reffering to...So I'll list the ones I know.

The moss crawling up the front glass is java. Aswell as on the wood water feature with the earthstar.

I have singapore moss mixed in several spots. However it is very similar to java, except it has a denser growth structure, and is slightly rust coloured in spots.

I recieved a bag full of various unknown mosses with my orchid order, so I'm not sure on the types. I would like to know what the moss is with the tiny round leaves though. I love it!

And the moss comming from the background is unknown to me. Most people with peatmoss/clay background get this very thin moss covering the surface. If anyone knows this also, please let me and Brien know. It might be common sense to say it is in fact Peat Moss, but I'm probably wrong in saying this as bagged peat is a mixture of many different organics.


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## BR5

Nicely done, thanks for taking the time to share.
Brian


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## GRIMM

Ive been having particulates get into my water, then pumped over my mosses....Heres what I have made for under 10$ as a small filter to help keep everything looking clean and green. I used polywool as the main filter media, then a little carbon just to make it look cool 



















For now, I will see how well this does. The particulates only get sucked up by the pump when I have to move the tank. Now that I have this, I wont need the move it and the particles can settle. Hopefully it reduces the amount of maintenance needed to keep my moss clear of crud.


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## Sagrei

Hello, I just had a quick question.

For your pump box, what kind of cover did you make for it so your frog's don't hop down in there?

Thanks


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## GRIMM

Sagrei said:


> Hello, I just had a quick question.
> 
> For your pump box, what kind of cover did you make for it so your frog's don't hop down in there?
> 
> Thanks


I dont have frogs just yet...But as for the top/box covering, I have a plan that I will hopefully follow through with early on next week.

Currently have a 2 piece sliding glass top, but I will be replacing it with a 2 piece silicone hinged top to minimize escapes (bugs). The glass will sit about 2-3mm from the top of the eggcrate "box". Then all I am going to do is add a bead of silicon to the underside of the glass to from a tight seal with the crate. I will also be adding a bead around the perimeter of the glass where it would touch the plactic frame to make it 100% escape proof (in theory  )

Hope that answers your question for now until I post pics of it in a few days.


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## Sagrei

oh ok, I recently finished my vivarium. And I made a smaller pump box. I don't have a water feature, but I didn't want my siphon tube under a whole bunch of clay, then accidentally tug on the tube and ruin the whole background. So this way I can just stick the siphon tube down the box and get rid of my excess water. 

Now I just need to figure out a way to create a cover for the box. your reply did give me some ideas, Thanks.


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## GRIMM

*Officially a Viv!*

Well I can officially call this a VIVARIUM!!! I picked up this cute pair of Leucomelas at the yearly reptile expo near my city. Finally all the hard work, research, experimentation and perseverance has paid off.

I am still planning to acquire 4 Borja Ridge Ventrimaculata, however the expo only comes once a year and I made the most of it. Once I finish my 2nd clay background viv, I will be picking them up from the woman who I traded my Titebond background tank for.


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## mellowvision

looking good.

the moss growing on the clay is really nice.

your tube filter is a fantastic idea. I'm paranoid about running water through brass fittings when it can be avoided, but it's a really nice solution. I've been looking for an air filter to keep dust out of the air lines on my fish breeding set up, and a modified version of this would probably beat any of the ideas I had been tossing around. Very nice.


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## GRIMM

mellowvision said:


> looking good.
> 
> the moss growing on the clay is really nice.
> 
> your tube filter is a fantastic idea. I'm paranoid about running water through brass fittings when it can be avoided, but it's a really nice solution. I've been looking for an air filter to keep dust out of the air lines on my fish breeding set up, and a modified version of this would probably beat any of the ideas I had been tossing around. Very nice.


Thanks. The moss comming from the background is really starting to spread now. There are small dark green patches showing up everywhere near the top of the tank.

And so far the filter is doing good. After 7 days, it looks to have fully absorbed as many particles as it can. However, I installed it when I still had dirty water so I dont expect it to fill up as fast once I change out the filter media. At least I'm ahead of where I was before, syphoning out the water 3 times a week. I will most likely build a larger filter box to encase the pump as the preliminary filter, and use this tube filter for any remaining particles that get through.

Glad to hear I gave you a little inspiration


----------



## eos

The viv looks great! Awesome growth everywhere


----------



## GRIMM

So its been a little while since Ive given an update. Everything is still doing pretty good. The only exception to this is my Creeping fig, and my polka dot plant. Both plant's new leaves seem to be off their normal colour, and slightly curled up. The creeping fig is yellowish, and the polka dot is less pink. The new leaves also seem to be see-through. They are in the same substrate as the button fern, ivy, and oak leaf ficus pumila, but these are all growing great. Any thoughts?

I have a reason Ive been absent though...Been busy working on a mirrored clay tank  So once I get the majority of it done I'll post another thread for it.

In the mean time, here are a couple of my favorite pics so far, and 2 bonus hilarious ones


----------



## *Self_DeFenCe*

Can you make a waterfall with clay or it will slide and go away ?


----------



## chinoanoah

*Self_DeFenCe* said:


> Can you make a waterfall with clay or it will slide and go away ?


It will slowly but surely destroy the clay.


----------



## carola1155

chinoanoah said:


> It will slowly but surely destroy the clay.


Not exactly true... It depends on the clay mixture.

A lot of people using the clay kitty litter method probably would not be able to make a good waterfall because the kitty litter sometimes isnt the exact composition it needs to be.

However, Ed has had a clay background with a drip wall that has been up for about 4 years now with his better quality clay mixture.


----------



## bullseye

The two at the glass are so funny! My caption would read, " you owe me ten fruit flies, with extra calcium powder. I told you it was square......and not round" !!!!!!


----------



## frogface

Hehee love the pics. Made my night


----------



## GRIMM

*Self_DeFenCe* said:


> Can you make a waterfall with clay or it will slide and go away ?





chinoanoah said:


> It will slowly but surely destroy the clay.


Yes it will eventually degrade and fall apart. If you go through my posts from this thread you will see the furstation and trial/errors I went through. Well worth it though imo.



bullseye said:


> The two at the glass are so funny! My caption would read, " you owe me ten fruit flies, with extra calcium powder. I told you it was square......and not round" !!!!!!


Haha what makes this even better is that I only have 2 frogs. Its not like I have 5 or more to make the chances of getting a picture like this higher. They are curious little buggers thats for sure.



frogface said:


> Hehee love the pics. Made my night


Glad I could shed some light over the shady forum lately!


----------



## jlb

How about another full tank photo update?


----------



## Ed

chinoanoah said:


> It will slowly but surely destroy the clay.


While this picture is lousy, it is a quick one I snapped earlier today. This is a clay background and the flow rate has not been adjusted in years (other than shutting the pump off..) and if you look closely you can actually see the stream of water coming off the shelf rock in the center of the picture. 

Ed


----------



## GRIMM

Ed said:


> While this picture is lousy, it is a quick one I snapped earlier today. This is a clay background and the flow rate has not been adjusted in years (other than shutting the pump off..) and if you look closely you can actually see the stream of water coming off the shelf rock in the center of the picture.
> 
> Ed


So this is just my quick observation....But you seem to be the only person on the board who has had success with clay being constantly wet... Have you only had success on that 1 tank or have you had a constant success rate with additional backgrounds?

If so, could you post the mixture you used....(75% Red Art, 25% Sodium Bentonite iirc?) No doubt your dripwall can withstand the moisture, but using the litter mixture for a dripwall would be disastrous. I even let this mixture "cure" in a humid environment for a few weeks, then tried dripping water over it. Within a few hours the water became dark brown and had flakes from the clay. The clay was also very slimy to the touch.


----------



## GRIMM

jlb said:


> How about another full tank photo update?


I'll post something up in a few weeks. I'm hoping my vines pick up a little bit. Since no one gave me any advice on my creeping fig and polka dot plant doing poorly, I'm experimenting to try and get them healthy again.


----------



## Ed

GRIMM said:


> So this is just my quick observation....But you seem to be the only person on the board who has had success with clay being constantly wet... Have you only had success on that 1 tank or have you had a constant success rate with additional backgrounds?
> 
> If so, could you post the mixture you used....(75% Red Art, 25% Sodium Bentonite iirc?) No doubt your dripwall can withstand the moisture, but using the litter mixture for a dripwall would be disastrous. I even let this mixture "cure" in a humid environment for a few weeks, then tried dripping water over it. Within a few hours the water became dark brown and had flakes from the clay. The clay was also very slimy to the touch.



I am not the only person who has had success with this sort of system. Ben Eiben was probably the first person to try it under a flowing water system (who gave me the idea) and I think he is still a member of the board. 

I have had it work in more than one tank, there are pictures on here where it is under the outflow of a magnum 350 as part of a spring type effect. The tank pictured above is the system I use to stress test various conditions to see how the clay, bromeliad (there is a small neogelia on the right side of the tank), mosses and microfauna respond. The last test was allowing the system to shut off the drip wall, remove the pool of water, and let the tank dry out for three months. After three months, the water was turned back on and allowed to rehydrate the system. I lost some types of moss, but the bromeliad came through fine and there are still springtails and isopods in the tank.... 

People have to be aware that they are not going to get consistent results when using kitty litter as there are going to be variations between batches. Kitty litters are usually a mixture of several clays with a certain percentage of it as sodium bentonite to create the clumping effect and the rest of the clays as some form of filler clay. (Possibly calcium bentonite, sodium exchanged calcium bentonite, or other clays). These fillers can cause differences in how the clays function.. 

I have successfully used both mixtures of calcium bentonite and peat and mixtures of red art clay/calcium bentonite and organics to get the systems to work. I've used everything ranging from 50/50 calcium bentonite/peat to 55-70% clay (around 75% red art/25% bentonite)/organics (peat/coconut)). In all cases I've scaled up the water flow to allow for time for the biofilms and structures to form up in the clay to resist the erosion. 

All of the clays we work with are going to have a slimy texture when initially exposed to water as they have been powdered and reconstituted without any chance to reform a structure. This is one of the benefits of running it through the treatments suggested in the ultimate clay thread. Furthermore, most of the attempts to set up drip walls or other flowing water systems do not give the clays a chance to become colonized by a biofilm which provides the glue to hold the clay together.... I worked the clay to get some form of structure in it, allowed it to set for 24-48 hours (I used room conditions to allow some of the excess moisture to evaporate), and then scaled the flow up to allow for formation of a biofilm and colonization of mosses, ferns and roots... As noted in the ultimate clay thread you can speed up this colonization by adding some organics that break down readily (cornstarch etc) as this encourages colonization (it will look terrible for a few days as all kinds of weird mold growths show up). Acylic fortifiers can be added to give the biofilms time to establish. The flaking is an indication that there is no structure holding the clay together (both clay structure and biofilm) and regardless there is going to be some erosion until you get a feel for how fast your flow rates should be... 

Sodium bentonite is often used in the construction of pond liners, land fill liners, and levees.. which is a strong indication that when used properly it does withstand water flows... 

As a method to get around this (but you won't be able to add more calcium etc into it..) you could collect clay from natural beds, keep it moist and carve it into place. These clays (particularly those that come from areas exposed to water like submerged stream beds) are going to be very solid.. however they will lose some of this if they are allowed to dry (the problem is dependent on how dry they are allowed to become). Bewarned that this is messy, time consuming and can be difficult depending on the tools used. 

If I was trying the kitty litters to get this going, I would follow the same process as I've used with the calcium bentonites which would be to fully hydrate it, work it to provide structure as outlined in the ultimate clay thread, allow it to set and then slowly scale up the flow rates as the biofilm established itself. If you keep it under good lighting, you will see mosses and ferns pretty rapidly if you use peat as the organics or crush some osmunda panel into the mix (or add a couple of strips of osmunda fiber). I have had treeferns spontaneously grow in several enclosures now... I had to cut them out as they all rapidly got big enough to shade out the tanks. 

Some comments,

Ed


----------



## Brien

This might seem like a dumb question but there is a large cave near me that has hills upon hills of clay in it. Its because their is a river that runs through the cave, this clay can be shaped into anything. Could this clay be used possibly or help? We always hike through the river and then go to the clay hills and because we are wet the hills make perfect slides and they are very tall slides too.


----------



## Ed

brien said:


> This might seem like a dumb question but there is a large cave near me that has hills upon hills of clay in it. Its because their is a river that runs through the cave, this clay can be shaped into anything. Could this clay be used possibly or help? We always hike through the river and then go to the clay hills and because we are wet the hills make perfect slides and they are very tall slides too.


If you read through the Ultimate Clay thread, you should be able to find the stuff Matt wrote about using local clays. 

Ed


----------



## Okapi

As always Ed, your post was extremely insightful. Ive been playing around with clay lately and haven't been able to figure out how to make a clay dripwall without the clay melting away. Granted I am using kitty litter mixes and haven't been able to find any art clay in any of the hobby stores in my area.


----------



## Ed

Okapi said:


> As always Ed, your post was extremely insightful. Ive been playing around with clay lately and haven't been able to figure out how to make a clay dripwall without the clay melting away. Granted I am using kitty litter mixes and haven't been able to find any art clay in any of the hobby stores in my area.


Look for a pottery supply store, or even a ceramics supply store. The pottery supply is going to be a better bet.. Or you can order online from one of the many pottery suppliers. The dry clay isn't that expensive which results in a reasonable shipping cost. 

Ed


----------



## GRIMM

Figured it was time for an update 
Full Tank: September 29th 









The magic of clay+peat+misting 









Broms still getting more colour...


















Mother of the previous brom (not in tank)









New pup finally getting some colour also.









Soon to bloom orchid, Haraella Retrocalla! Excited! It loves the viv environment.









Java









Java growth close-up









Some riccia moss has magically started to grow! I tried so hard to grow this stuff... Only after I gave up did it grow for me unexpectedly









And my little anubias nana petite is doing great.









And a healthy froggy


----------



## chinoanoah

Thanks Grimm

A monthly update is awesome. Keep a log of this tank for sure!


----------



## frogface

Gorgeous! Thanks for the update. I'm ready to move into your viv


----------



## sbye

This tank is awesome! I think my next tank might have a clay background after reading this thread.


----------



## GRIMM

chinoanoah said:


> Thanks Grimm
> 
> A monthly update is awesome. Keep a log of this tank for sure!


Man I cant believe its only been a month since the last update lol. That gives me a good idea though! I might try and set up a camera pod and take pictures every day from the same location. Might be able to put together a cool time lapse of both tanks once I finish the second one.


----------



## meow

OhhhOhhh great idea!


----------



## jlb

Looks really great! Thank you for the update. The clay appears to be in the same condition as when the tank was put together. Is it still as soft as before? It looks like it is not drying out at all.

Keep the pictures coming. Would you put up a picture of the original planting and current growth level side by side?


----------



## GRIMM

jlb said:


> Looks really great! Thank you for the update. The clay appears to be in the same condition as when the tank was put together. Is it still as soft as before? It looks like it is not drying out at all.
> 
> Keep the pictures coming. Would you put up a picture of the original planting and current growth level side by side?


Thanks bud. I'll be honest, the top inch is very dry and will need to be replaced in the back left section of the tank. The previous top that I had used to let dry air inside and I havent had a chance to fix it quite yet. Once my twin build is finished, I will move the frogs and fix the clay. I also put the clay on much to thin near the top. I made sure not to make the same mistake on the twin.

Before the orchids were planted...









Orchids planted..









And now...


----------



## Ed

Why remove the dry sections up in the corner? It doesn't look like it is unattactive unless you are worried about the frogs being able to get up behind it. If that is the case push more clay into the cracks and make sure the clay reaches the back wall. While the top is dry, it will also act as a moisture gradient to a lower portion of the back wall. In the spots you think it is too thin, just push some more damp clay onto it and work the edges of the patch together. 

Ed


----------



## fink

What size tank is this?


----------



## GRIMM

Ed said:


> Why remove the dry sections up in the corner? It doesn't look like it is unattactive unless you are worried about the frogs being able to get up behind it. If that is the case push more clay into the cracks and make sure the clay reaches the back wall. While the top is dry, it will also act as a moisture gradient to a lower portion of the back wall. In the spots you think it is too thin, just push some more damp clay onto it and work the edges of the patch together.
> 
> Ed


It has lost its hold to the glass, and it looks like a few chunks may fall off pretty soon. Trust me, I havent pictured the bad area  It'll only take about 5 mins to fix.


----------



## GRIMM

fink said:


> What size tank is this?


20 Gallons small


----------



## crzsnwbdr

That's a fantastic looking vivarium you have there Grimm! And your frogs, they look great too; I especially *love* the forehead triangle design on the frog you have as your avatar.

I have quick questions for you if you don't mind. My head is literally spinning from all of these clay threads I've read today, but one issue which isn't quite defined is how long you have before the clay will crack. For instance, if I mist every other day, every few days, or less -- how likely would the clay crack and fall apart? Would re-hydrating the clay make it pliable enough to push back into place? Conversely, I read a constant water flow is hard to accomplish, but how much water is _too_ much you think?

Also, I would love to see an overhead shot of your tank. I'm curious how the screen and everything work, and how you siliconed everything in place.


----------



## GRIMM

K quick monthly plant update  ...Sorry about not getting a full tank shot, I`ll add one shortly.

My Haraella Retrocalla is still growing the flower stalk. Im getting excited and somewhat impatient for when it will finally bloom. I have a 2nd flower beginning to grow also.

Here are some growth pics over time...




























And the aquatic Bacopa vines are growing extremely fast. I was tempted to trim them back to only a couple inches long, but I`m glad I didnt as they have given me my very first flowers inside this tank. Again, here are some growth pics over time. I havent quite timed it right to capture the flowers fully open, but I have 2 more about to bloom today or tomorrow. I`ll try to get a good fully developped flower pic.

You can see the vine hit the top glass, then curl back down, and up again haha.




































And since last update, I have added a small 40mm circulation fan. In the following picture, notice the health difference on the new lower polka dot plant leaves.










And lastly, a bonus picture. My fave so far of this guy!


----------



## vivlover10

cant wait till i get my leucs! those pix are great the last one is my fav!


----------



## GRIMM

Posted this in my twin build thread, but it relates to this build also. Enjoy.


----------



## Okapi

Everything is growing in nicely, I cant wait to see you tackle a huge build!


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Nice.
I thought you was jgrimmier
I've seen your YouTube vid on this
I love all you're work.
I'm glad I found this thread.
I meant no offence to you in my thread
I know a lot might be against my build but it's gonna be awesome


----------



## rlove250

Hey Ed, I've searched for the "Ultimate Clay" thread that you so inconspicuously mentioned in your posts through out this thread. You've mention that it would be a good thread to read over as it relates to making a Clay based background. Maybe I have the wrong thread but it is all about making substrate and not a background. 

Have I got the wrong post? or is the recipe and process on that thread one to adopt to making backgrounds?

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/22990-ultimate-clay-based-substrate-thread.html


----------



## Ed

rlove250 said:


> Hey Ed, I've searched for the "Ultimate Clay" thread that you so inconspicuously mentioned in your posts through out this thread. You've mention that it would be a good thread to read over as it relates to making a Clay based background. Maybe I have the wrong thread but it is all about making substrate and not a background.
> 
> Have I got the wrong post? or is the recipe and process on that thread one to adopt to making backgrounds?
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/22990-ultimate-clay-based-substrate-thread.html


 
Think, young grasshopper... why should a clay substrate be any different than a clay background?


----------



## rlove250

I've been pretty close minded here so far to see the background as something just to look at and not as part of a living environment. Not only does this method look great but it's very functional.


----------



## xxohmycaptainxx

Hey I see this worked very well for you, but I have few questions. Is this safe for the frogs? I always wondered if it would make them sick or hurt them but no one ever answered this form me. Also does this break or fall apart due to humidity? And do bromeliads and ferms grow well on this? I am planning on trying this but i am worried the plants won't attach themselves onto it as well as they would on a cork background or a coconut fiber background. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Mitch

Dātokaeru56;532518 said:


> Hey I see this worked very well for you, but I have few questions. Is this safe for the frogs? *Yes.* I always wondered if it would make them sick or hurt them but no one ever answered this form me. Also does this break or fall apart due to humidity? *No.* And do bromeliads and ferms grow well on this? *Yes.* I am planning on trying this but i am worried the plants won't attach themselves onto it as well as they would on a cork background or a coconut fiber background. Thanks for the help!


Answers are in bold in your post. I just tried out my first clay background and all I can say is I'm never going back to anything else!


----------



## xxohmycaptainxx

Thanks for the reply Mitch! This will definetly help me out with my viv!


----------



## xxohmycaptainxx

Where can you get the eggcrates and the zip bands?


----------



## chinoanoah

Lowes/ Home Depot. Eggcrate is in the lighting section and is also known as 'light defuser' panels.


----------



## xxohmycaptainxx

But doesn't the water from the pond just go over to the drainage layer? Or does the fabric and gravel block it?


----------



## GRIMM

Dātokaeru56;534767 said:


> But doesn't the water from the pond just go over to the drainage layer? Or does the fabric and gravel block it?


I dont think you are quite understanding the purpose of a false bottom....

The water fills the entire bottom of the tank, and the eggcrate structure's main purpose is to lift the substrate above the water level. The fabric blocks the substrate from dropping down into the water. And the gravel is used to hide the ugliness of the eggcrate, and to create a natural slope into the pond area.


----------



## Ed

GRIMM said:


> I dont think you are quite understanding the purpose of a false bottom....
> 
> The water fills the entire bottom of the tank, and the eggcrate structure's main purpose is to lift the substrate above the water level. The fabric blocks the substrate from dropping down into the water. And the gravel is used to hide the ugliness of the eggcrate, and to create a natural slope into the pond area.


Or you can construct your false bottom so thier is always a air gap between the top of the water and the bottom of the egg crate. This will really help to guarantee that the substrate drains well and does not waterlog. 

Ed


----------



## xxohmycaptainxx

Ohhhh I thought the drainage layer was to drain out any extra water from the substrate and the was its only purpose, but apparently I was wrong.


----------



## rlove250

How much of an air gap do you make, and how do you make it? 



Ed said:


> Or you can construct your false bottom so thier is always a air gap between the top of the water and the bottom of the egg crate. This will really help to guarantee that the substrate drains well and does not waterlog.
> 
> Ed


----------



## Ed

rlove250 said:


> How much of an air gap do you make, and how do you make it?


Usually about 1/2 inch.. I drill my tanks so I set the overflow for the drain so the water never gets more than half an inch above the bottom of the drain. Or alternatively you can just make sure to remove water regularly to make sure it never contacts the bottom of the false bottom. 
You can make a false bottom any height you choose by simply raising the bottom... 

Ed


----------



## xxohmycaptainxx

Ed said:


> Usually about 1/2 inch.. I drill my tanks so I set the overflow for the drain so the water never gets more than half an inch above the bottom of the drain. Or alternatively you can just make sure to remove water regularly to make sure it never contacts the bottom of the false bottom.
> You can make a false bottom any height you choose by simply raising the bottom...
> 
> Ed


Wow thats pretty small when I do mine I want at least an inch maybe even 1 1/2 inches. Then again I won't be drilling my tank so...


----------



## Ed

Dātokaeru56;535167 said:


> Wow thats pretty small when I do mine I want at least an inch maybe even 1 1/2 inches. Then again I won't be drilling my tank so...


That is above the bulkhead drain.. These are mounted into the front of the tank so my false bottoms are about 2 inches off the bottom of the tank. The water in the bottom also helps as a temperature buffer by providing thermal mass to the tank. 

Ed


----------



## GRIMM

Unless you have an automated misting system, there is really no need for a drilled drain to keep water levels maintained. I mist by hand everyday, and have never needed to drain excess water out from my tanks. I typically need to add water every month or two. If I do need to drain or replace the water, I have a syphon tube installed through the background running out the top.


----------



## Ed

GRIMM said:


> Unless you have an automated misting system, there is really no need for a drilled drain to keep water levels maintained. I mist by hand everyday, and have never needed to drain excess water out from my tanks. I typically need to add water every month or two. If I do need to drain or replace the water, I have a syphon tube installed through the background running out the top.


 
I don't think anyone is saying a bulkhead was required.. 
However it allows for automatic regulation of the water levels.. there are also potential long term problems with continually adding water to a system (unless you are adding RO/DI water) as you can end up with salt deposits on high points in the substrate or back walls where water had wicked up and evaporated. 

Ed


----------



## GRIMM

I know I've beaten this thread to death with random pics, but I couldnt not post one more. Got my 100mm macro lenz for christmas and this is my best shot so far. Tripod, remote shutter, and through glass


----------



## andrew__

Awesome shot, especially through glass


----------



## ryan10517

LOVE these tanks! great inspiration. Thanks for sharing with us


----------



## alonso

woooooww!!!! I've just read this post and it's amazing! it have been the most complete post with information about clay backgrounds i have found. Thank you and congratulations for your tanks, they're amazing too!

PD: Sorry if my english isn't good, i'm learnig english and it´s difficult!


----------



## GRIMM

Thanks guys, appreciate it.



alonso said:


> woooooww!!!! I've just read this post and it's amazing! it have been the most complete post with information about clay backgrounds i have found. Thank you and congratulations for your tanks, they're amazing too!
> 
> PD: Sorry if my english isn't good, i'm learnig english and it´s difficult!


Thanks, I actually have another build with DIY videos if you want. It was my 2nd clay tank so I did a couple thing differently with my added experience. Here is the link if you want.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/58175-grimms-twin-build.html


----------



## Saviorself

Great shot of your Leuc grimm!


PHP:


----------



## ryan10517

how long did it take for that moss to appear on your clay? i really want mine to do the same thing


----------



## ilovejaden

GRIMM said:


> Thanks guys, appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I actually have another build with DIY videos if you want. It was my 2nd clay tank so I did a couple thing differently with my added experience. Here is the link if you want.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/58175-grimms-twin-build.html


Hey Grimm I was just wondering if this would work also for the kitty litter 
Walmart.com: Special Kitty: Natural Cat Litter, 25 Lb: Cats 
its a different color bag but its the same special kitty with 100% clay and all natural? Thanks for any info sir!


----------



## jlb

I did not have good luck with the Wal-Mart kitty litter. Use the Dr. Esleys brand from Petsmart. It comes in a blue bag. Clay turns to mush with just a bit of water. This clay works well!

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/60202-my-10-gallon-clay-background-build.html


----------



## ilovejaden

thanks jib your build helped me out a lot.


----------



## bmcdarts

Thanks for showing this! It helped a lot and gave me some better ideas on how to do my tank! 

BMcDarts


----------



## tgregoire

Grimm, I have never tried the clay method as I am a bigger fan of "permanant" backgrounds and get sketched out about clay backgrounds falling off the glass or silicone in one piece to demolish anything living or not on the viv floor..... Anyway, have you ever used clay below a water line? Do you know if it would hold up, maybe in areas of little or no flow?


----------



## ryan10517

clay will not hold up underwater. 

Any updates on these vivs grimm?


----------



## tgregoire

Ok. Thanks.


----------



## Ed

ryan10517 said:


> clay will not hold up underwater.
> 
> Any updates on these vivs grimm?


 
Not entirely true but I seem to be the one of the few who got it to work... 

Ed


----------



## tgregoire

Ed, what specifically did you use and did you have any water flow coming in contact with the clay?


----------



## Ed

Yes, but I literally spent months getting to the point to make sure that biofilm, algaes, roots and mosses were established enough to handle the flows. Very few people are willing to take that much time just to get something like this to work. I do not use kitty litter and I do work the clay to give it structure. 

This is a picture of one enclosure where I spent at least six months conditioning the clay to take the flow of the water


----------



## jamesthornton

Does the pump here contain a filter of any kind or would you not need one? I have a similar shallow pool in mine and wondering whether I need a filter in or not.


----------



## Ed

It is a magnum 350. 

Ed


----------



## Frank H

GRIMM said:


> I know I've beaten this thread to death with random pics, but I couldnt not post one more. Got my 100mm macro lenz for christmas and this is my best shot so far. Tripod, remote shutter, and through glass




Awesome shot! The 100mm macro is really a great lens. .. that said, you cant give me Mozarts piano and expect me to play like a musical genius, so congrats on taking a great photo. 

Hey, I have a question. I went to walmart to pick up the same special kitty litter that you used and couldnt find it. I did find 2 different bags of special kitty brand litter but one was red and other was yellow. The yellow said it had a odor release ingredient so I went with the red. Opened it up and it looks like its a bunch of tiny rocks. I have it soaking in water for the past few hours but I doubt it will absorb and become clay. Are there any other recommended brands of kittly litter that I can use for making a background? Thanks. 

Frank


----------



## GRIMM

Ive been a bit busy and pretty much forgot about this threads till a few days ago....Figured I do a quick pic update. Pardon the sig on every picture. I usually only put them on good photos, and most of these suck the big one lol. 

Frog Laundry Room. You wouldnt know it, but in those two 10 gallon tanks I have +$500 worth of plant lol. Damn orchids are gonna kill me.



























The Twin. Just search for "twin build if you want the thread and all the how to videos from it.









Here is the calling male









And the other unknown leuc. Not really fat enough to be sure it's a female yet.









Here are the 3 bj vent living in the twin. Most likely 2 females and 1 male.













































Big momma...









K thats it for now. I'll try and get some better shots one of these days. The slow shutter speeds, lack of light, condensation and all the damn reflections are killing my pictures....Note to anyone making a frog room from scratch, paint the walls black for better pictures


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## Melo

You say those pictures are bad? Those pictures are 100 times better than anything i can do lol. Even if you think they are the worst pictures ever, they are proably still better than someones  The tanks look awesome!


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## NikonPhotoBug

I have a question, and I hope I am posting it correctly here, and hope you can find my question to reply to me. I am planning on making a waterfall for my 3 green tree frogs, and I see how you did this set up with the waterfall, with the false bottom and everything. I have two questions as I am still a beginner.... so forgive me for the rudimentary questioning. 

1. What is the point of having a false bottom? 

2. With all the work you done, how in the world do you keep the water clean? 
After so long, do you have to take all that apart and clean it and put it back together? 

Okay, that's 3 questions. I hope you don't mind me asking. 




GRIMM said:


> Here are a few pics from my progress today....I found the perfect piece of driftwood, installed it, then added a few details, and mixed my substrate. I used roughtly these quantities...
> -2 cups eco earth
> -1 cup peat moss
> -1/2 cup charcoal
> -1/2 cup orchid bark
> -1/2 cup milled sphagnum
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> Im looking for a lot more java and riccia moss for ground cover and the water feature. The add leaf litter below the grapevine stream. Then my plan is to have the entire back wall covered in vines before I add a few small broms/neos. Hopefully it turns out looking ok.


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