# importing dart frogs into the usa



## cddrouin (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm new to this site and to dart frog collecting, but am learning fast how wonderful these little creatures are. This may be a silly question, but I want to catch my own frogs in south America and bring them back to the states with me but I can't seem to find any solid information on how to get permits to import them. I know a lot of people frown upon wild caught because of the risks but being a science geek, I'm really interested in starting my own collection from scratch. Please help if you know where I can find this info. Thank you!


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

Are you keeping any dart frogs right now?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

bshmerlie said:


> Are you keeping any dart frogs right now?


Ya you if don't already have experience with them starting from scratch with wild caught frogs is a bad idea even if you somehow did manage to get permits and jump through all the required hoops and be able to collect and import them. Not to mention the stress of international shipping and the multiple health concerns you'd have to address once they arrived. This idea would not be cheap to do, nor would it even begin to approach being easy. At the very least I would expect to spend months if not years acquiring the necessary contacts and permissions, and then there is the costs. 

You could pay an importer to do it for you, basically just buy a shipment and keep them like many dealers buy wild animals to then sell them. Again though without a good deal of experience with darts attempting to start like this is in my opinion highly irresponsible, and presents multiple ethical issues and practical difficulties. I encourage you to start with CB animals and get a few years of experience under your belt before even considering buying a shipment of WC from an importer/exporter, and definitely before even considering going down there and trying to pull the whole thing off yourself. 

To sum up its a very impractical idea, fairly irresponsible/unethical and I doubt you will get much support from people in the hobby for it. On the other hand if you wanna get into the hobby the more traditional way with CB animals and accepted husbandry practices, and do things responsibly/ethically then you'll find us to be a very helpful lot  Welcome!


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

Yeah..Dave....I was trying to get there in a nice way.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Aside from what Dave mentioned, nearly every country that has dart frogs in the wild is closed to exportation, even to scientists. The only ones that might be open to an outsider are Suriname, Guyana and Panama and possibly Nicaragua. I have tried to get permits for Guyana and basically it was impossible for live animals.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

bshmerlie said:


> Yeah..Dave....I was trying to get there in a nice way.


LoL what?...I was nice  In fact I'm hoping my firm but fair post addressing what would be many peoples concerns in a diplomatic way, cuts down on the number of more scathing responses he might be likely to get. Could be wishful thinking though 

To the OP:
Seriously though man, if you wanna jump into this hobby in a responsible way many here will bend over backwards to help you, but on the flip side if you don't many won't be half as nice as I was in my initial reply


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

LOL...you're right that was Dendroboard nice. You've got to understand this guy is new to the hobby...he has no clue about the difficulty of what he is asking nor if its even a wise thing to do. He's excited about Darts and the idea of going out and collecting your own frogs would be cool.......until you stop and think about it. It was an innocent question and if he really gets into the hobby he'll start to see the bigger picture on his own.

To the OP: Get an adult pair of beginner darts that are known for easy breeding and start your own family....now that's Cool.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

bshmerlie said:


> LOL...you're right that was Dendroboard nice. You've got to understand this guy is new to the hobby...he has no clue about the difficulty of what he is asking nor if its even a wise thing to do. He's excited about Darts and the idea of going out and collecting your own frogs would be cool.......until you stop and think about it. It was an innocent question and if he really gets into the hobby he'll start to see the bigger picture on his own.
> 
> To the OP: Get an adult pair of beginner darts that are known for easy breeding and start your own family....now that's Cool.


Exactly thats why I was so "diplomatic"  Its like the whole hybrid, mixing species, and other often repeated threads. We get tired of them but to people who haven't gone through indoctrination into the culture of the hobby, or don't have a lot of forum experience, they don't know and sometimes people forget that or aren't as patient and understanding as they should be. I try not to be that way, unless the person seems to not get it and ignores sound advice...but I still make the point none the less.  And then there is my excessive use of emoticons just to make sure they get that I'm trying to be friendly


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

Emoticons are good. can we put in a request for a larger selection of them.


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

A simple answer is it is next to impossible to collect your own frogs export them from South America and import them to the U.S.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

All very nicely put, Dave. I agree 100 percent and will keep it at that...nice and civil.
Doug


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

bshmerlie said:


> You've got to understand this guy is new to the hobby...he has no clue about the difficulty of what he is asking nor if its even a wise thing to do. He's excited about Darts and the idea of going out and collecting your own frogs would be cool.......until you stop and think about it. It was an innocent question and if he really gets into the hobby he'll start to see the bigger picture on his own.


While I'm more than happy to put myself in that situation and can certainly empathize with being excited about getting into the hobby and such, when you try to get there in a "nice" way, the point you're trying to get across is typically lost. Dave was _extremely_ nice, and not just "Dendroboard nice." There's nothing mean about laying the facts out there without a thick coat of sugar. It just _seems_ mean because people typically want their feelings coddled.

To summarize, dave was a lot nicer than I'd've been


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> To summarize, dave was a lot nicer than I'd've been


While I am not one to coddle one's emotions I do still remember what its like to be new to a hobby and trying to understand the heirarchy of a new forum. While I have no argument against Dave's content I do find it somewhat "objectionable" that he chose to start off his response with, "Ya you". I think a better choice of words could have been more inviting to a new member. And that is what I am meant when I said "Dendroboard nice". The "point" can also be lost on how you choose to say it. It was just a playful jab at Dave...don't take everything out of context and lighten up. You'll find I'm kind of a direct and forward person myself and if I read something that is "questionable" I'm probably going to say something (usually through sarcasim and witty humor). And I'll make sure to add a lot of emoticons....for Dave that is....because apparently (as you say) you're not so nice and you take things very seriously.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I like to think I may be addressing a young person and try to adjust my rhetoric appropriately. All the reat of you, well that's another matter entirely.\

Richard.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

cddrouin said:


> I'm new to this site and to dart frog collecting, but am learning fast how wonderful these little creatures are. This may be a silly question, but I want to catch my own frogs in south America and bring them back to the states with me but I can't seem to find any solid information on how to get permits to import them. I know a lot of people frown upon wild caught because of the risks but being a science geek, I'm really interested in starting my own collection from scratch. Please help if you know where I can find this info. Thank you!


Here is my opinion. Take what the others here have said as constructive criticism, but ignore the negativity. Importing frogs or any species properly is a lot of hard work and it takes time to learn how to do it properly. Put in the time, do it right and go for it. You will find a great following here if you do it right. Do it the wrong way and you not find many friends here. To help you get started in the right direction check out these links.

Permits Import and Export

Welcome to CITES


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

bshmerlie said:


> While I am not one to coddle one's emotions I do still remember what its like to be new to a hobby and trying to understand the heirarchy of a new forum. While I have no argument against Dave's content I do find it somewhat "objectionable" that he chose to start off his response with, "Ya you". I think a better choice of words could have been more inviting to a new member. And that is what I am meant when I said "Dendroboard nice". The "point" can also be lost on how you choose to say it. It was just a playful jab at Dave...don't take everything out of context and lighten up. You'll find I'm kind of a direct and forward person myself and if I read something that is "questionable" I'm probably going to say something (usually through sarcasim and witty humor). And I'll make sure to add a lot of emoticons....for Dave that is....because apparently (as you say) you're not so nice and you take things very seriously.


I just went back and looked at my post... LOL, the "ya you" was actually a typo. It should have been "Ya, If you don't....". My bad there. My grammar alarm didn't go off that time  I can see how it could have come off with a bit different tone if you didn't assume that was a grammar mistake/typo. "ya you if don't" is not how I generally speak...even being from Kansas/Oklahoma


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

Ya you Dave!...I was just messing with you. Appearently not everyone appreciates my "witty sarcasm and humor". I don't have a problem with you ...I hope that you didn't think that I did.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

bshmerlie said:


> Ya you Dave!...I was just messing with you. Appearently not everyone appreciates my "witty sarcasm and humor". I don't have a problem with you ...I hope that you didn't think that I did.


Nope...its all good . I wish I could edit that post though, now that I realized the typo its bothering me. Grrr


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

LOL...Isn't that always the case.


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