# Vivarium Plants Dying



## Crestiekeeper

Hi! I've been attempting to set up two 18 by 18 by 24 vivariums for my cresteds since their current living situation is cramped. However every time I try to add plants something goes worms and the plants die. My tank specs areas follows
A layer of hydro balls
A separating layer 
A layer of abg 
A thin layer of sphagnum moss 
A layer of leaves 

The lighting is two 24 watt cfl(6500k) on for 12 hours a day. The plants are neoregalia fireball, snake plant, pothos, Mexican airplant, Tilandsia myosura. The pothos are doing very bad they have flopped over and are no longer standing up. The other plants are alive but barely. The bromeliads are losing their red. If someone can tell me how to post pictures I will.


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## Kirbalicious

can you show pics of the damage?


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## Crestiekeeper

Kirbalicious said:


> can you show pics of the damage?




Yes I can but I am unsure how to post them. 


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## Crestiekeeper

Figured it out okay so here is the two broms









Snake plants 









The air plants









The pothos(this picture is old the plant is almost completely dead by now) 









The plants also have not grown at all since I got them about a month ago. Any ideas?

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## kimcmich

Greetings,

Despite what looks like a misting before these pics were taken, I would say the substrate looks very dry. Are you sure you have been watering enough to keep the substrate moist enough for the plants' roots? A warm tank with nothing but misting can slowly dry the substrate if the misting moisture evaporates before it can soak in.

The pothos and others certainly look wilted. The Sansevieria seems okay - but they are resistant to drought.


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## Crestiekeeper

kimcmich said:


> Greetings,
> 
> 
> 
> Despite what looks like a misting before these pics were taken, I would say the substrate looks very dry. Are you sure you have been watering enough to keep the substrate moist enough for the plants' roots? A warm tank with nothing but misting can slowly dry the substrate if the misting moisture evaporates before it can soak in.
> 
> 
> 
> The pothos and others certainly look wilted. The Sansevieria seems okay - but they are resistant to drought.




I have been actually watering the plants as well. The substrate stays moist for a long time after the plants are watered. Could it be too strong of a light? 


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## JPP

Crestiekeeper said:


> I have been actually watering the plants as well. The substrate stays moist for a long time after the plants are watered.


It should stay moist all of the time, all of the substrate. Parts of your substrate do appear too dry, as previously mentioned.



Crestiekeeper said:


> Could it be too strong of a light?


No, not two 24 watt CFL bulbs over a 24 inch tall viv. If the light was very strong, your Fireball would likely be very red. Are you keeping water in the Neo?

I've got to admit, its rare that someone manages to kill a Pothos! 

The issue with Crested Gecko vivs is that they have a lot more ventilation than dart vivs, and can dry out very quickly depending on your indoor home humidity levels (which are usually quite low). Is there any water in your hydroton drainage layer? You may have to periodically pour some water into your substrate, and keep a little bit of water at the bottom of your drainage layer to aid in maintaining soil moisture.


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## Hercrabit

The pothos is extremely hard to kill (my opinion). Just throwing an idea out there - perhaps chemical off gassing from background construction?


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## Crestiekeeper

JPP said:


> It should stay moist all of the time, all of the substrate. Parts of your substrate do appear too dry, as previously mentioned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not two 24 watt CFL bulbs over a 24 inch tall viv. If the light was very strong, your Fireball would likely be very red. Are you keeping water in the Neo?
> 
> 
> 
> I've got to admit, its rare that someone manages to kill a Pothos!
> 
> 
> 
> The issue with Crested Gecko vivs is that they have a lot more ventilation than dart vivs, and can dry out very quickly depending on your indoor home humidity levels (which are usually quite low). Is there any water in your hydroton drainage layer? You may have to periodically pour some water into your substrate, and keep a little bit of water at the bottom of your drainage layer to aid in maintaining soil moisture.






Hercrabit said:


> The pothos is extremely hard to kill (my opinion). Just throwing an idea out there - perhaps chemical off gassing from background construction?



These are my second group of pothos that I got and killed. I have no clue what is going wrong. Yes the broms do have water in them. I did not know about the drainage layer I will try that now. The room the tanks are in in the house has a high humidity because of the tanks and the fish tanks evaporation. I don't hunk it is the background(great stuff, cork, and silicone) the tank sat for around a month before the plants were added.


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## dmb5245

Can you describe your processing procedure? Perhaps you are overdoing it with the bleach. Although I'll agree with others that substrate looks dry.


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## Crestiekeeper

dmb5245 said:


> Can you describe your processing procedure? Perhaps you are overdoing it with the bleach. Although I'll agree with others that substrate looks dry.




I'm not sure what you mean. There has never been bleach in this tank. The substrate was dry on this day but normally it is not like this.


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## dmb5245

Crestiekeeper said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.


It's common practice to use diluted bleach on new plants before planting to kill pests and pathogens. But from your reply, that's clearly not the culprit. Two pothos dieing is strange. Hope you figure it out


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## Ed

The pothos would do better if you trimmed all but two maybe three leaves off the stem pieces before planting. Keep in mind that you've eliminated much of the root structure and compromised the ability to absorb water while still enabling large losses from the leaves. It isn't uncommon to see it wilt like that until it gets rooted. If you want to speed the process up a little try placing the stem in water until the roots begin to show and then plant it. 

I should also note that if your getting your plants from big box stores you may not want to put them directly into the cages as they can contain systemic pesticides that can get transmitted to the lizards if the crickets eat the plants. 

Many sansivaria don't like to have overly wet feet so if your really wetting your substrate all of the time it may rot. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Crestiekeeper

Ed said:


> The pothos would do better if you trimmed all but two maybe three leaves off the stem pieces before planting. Keep in mind that you've eliminated much of the root structure and compromised the ability to absorb water while still enabling large losses from the leaves. It isn't uncommon to see it wilt like that until it gets rooted. If you want to speed the process up a little try placing the stem in water until the roots begin to show and then plant it.
> 
> 
> 
> I should also note that if your getting your plants from big box stores you may not want to put them directly into the cages as they can contain systemic pesticides that can get transmitted to the lizards if the crickets eat the plants.
> 
> 
> 
> Many sansivaria don't like to have overly wet feet so if your really wetting your substrate all of the time it may rot.
> 
> 
> 
> some comments
> 
> 
> 
> Ed


Thank you so you would recommend placing the pothos roots into a bowl of water? The plants are all from NEHERP.



dmb5245 said:


> It's common practice to use diluted bleach on new plants before planting to kill pests and pathogens. But from your reply, that's clearly not the culprit. Two pothos dieing is strange. Hope you figure it out


Not two but four. Yikes I have no clue what's happening!




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## Ed

If you removed the substrate from the roots of the plant, trim all but a few leaves off the plant so you can reduce the water loss as you've damaged the roots and the plants need time to recover and grow new roots/root hairs. I wouldn't call that pothos even close to dead until the whole stem has died, it is actually just wilted. Trim the leaves but for one or two, moisten the soil and keep it moist. If you have something made from clear plastic you can place it over the plant in the cage to increase the humidity to help keep it from wilting. Even a clean fruit fly cup would help. 

Generally when people are planting pothos in a cage they are using cuttings from a larger plant or another source and in those cases you want to trim all but a few leaves off and then get it to start rooting or if you plant it directly in the cage to keep it moist and maybe increase the local humidity until it roots which should take a few weeks. 

some comments 

Ed


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## chulainnledsom

Crestiekeeper said:


> I have been actually watering the plants as well. The substrate stays moist for a long time after the plants are watered. Could it be too strong of a light?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Do you have egg crate at the bottom?


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## kimcmich

@Crestie,

I think Ed is assuming you got the pothos as cuttings without roots. Is this true? If the pothos came from NeHerp as an established cutting with roots, and you planted it, it shouldn't have needed the treatment Ed suggests.

If it did have roots, then I think a dry substrate is the culprit.

Also: Do you have a thermometer? What's the daytime (lights on) max in the tank?


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## Crestiekeeper

chulainnledsom said:


> Do you have egg crate at the bottom?


No eggcrate



kimcmich said:


> @Crestie,
> 
> I think Ed is assuming you got the pothos as cuttings without roots. Is this true? If the pothos came from NeHerp as an established cutting with roots, and you planted it, it shouldn't have needed the treatment Ed suggests.
> 
> If it did have roots, then I think a dry substrate is the culprit.
> 
> Also: Do you have a thermometer? What's the daytime (lights on) max in the tank?




It did have roots loads of them. So should i try watering them more times a day? The max daytime temp is 73.


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## kimcmich

@Crestie,

If both Pothos had roots and still wilted after planting, I think the only explanation is a dry substrate. How often and by what method are you watering the plants now? Are you sure the substrate at the level of the roots actually gets wet when you water?


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## hp192

Most plants aren't too picky. Aside from plants that grow in a specific niche, they all usually thrive with sufficient light, water, and nutrients. I can understand your frustration...when something's supposed to be easy to do (or grow) and it's not and there are no firm answers...it can drive you crazy. It seems that your plants are definitely getting enough light...plenty of light, actually. Nutrients shouldn't a problem at this stage. That leaves only one other possible problem...water. 

In your initial post, you mentioned that you have a thin layer of sphagnum and a layer of leaves...but I don't see any in your photos. I see a very sparse scattering of sphagnum and it's hard to tell if there are any leaves. Maybe try increasing your sphagnum to cover the soil and help water retention. Increasing the leaf litter will help with this also.

Your plants appear to be suffering but are far from completely lost. Good luck.


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## Crestiekeeper

kimcmich said:


> @Crestie,
> 
> 
> 
> If both Pothos had roots and still wilted after planting, I think the only explanation is a dry substrate. How often and by what method are you watering the plants now? Are you sure the substrate at the level of the roots actually gets wet when you water?


I am currently misting the walls and the ground.



hp192 said:


> Most plants aren't too picky. Aside from plants that grow in a specific niche, they all usually thrive with sufficient light, water, and nutrients. I can understand your frustration...when something's supposed to be easy to do (or grow) and it's not and there are no firm answers...it can drive you crazy. It seems that your plants are definitely getting enough light...plenty of light, actually. Nutrients shouldn't a problem at this stage. That leaves only one other possible problem...water.
> 
> 
> 
> In your initial post, you mentioned that you have a thin layer of sphagnum and a layer of leaves...but I don't see any in your photos. I see a very sparse scattering of sphagnum and it's hard to tell if there are any leaves. Maybe try increasing your sphagnum to cover the soil and help water retention. Increasing the leaf litter will help with this also.
> 
> 
> 
> Your plants appear to be suffering but are far from completely lost. Good luck.



Yes I pushed the leaves and moss away from the plants for these pictures. I'll try watering more and see if that works 



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## kimcmich

@Crestie,

If you are misting only, then that may be the problem. Misting alone will not moisten the deeper soil. Right now, only the surface is getting wet - and your plant's roots are beneath the surface. You need to water enough - at least once every week or 2 - to wet the soil all all the way through (at least as long as you see plant wilting). Once your plants have extended their roots, you will likely be able to get-by with misting alone - though likely at a higher frequency or longer duration than you're doing now.


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## Pumilo

Did you remember to presoak your ABG? If not, most of your water is probably running right through it, into the false bottom.

Bone dry ABG mix absolutely hates water. It repels it. ABG mix needs to be thoroughly soaked before putting it in the tank.

A layer of sphagnum moss over the substrate is so very old school. It irks me that people still push that in how-to videos. It is entirely unnecessary and can make for constantly wet feet on your frogs. This can actually lead to bacteria literally rotting the flesh off of your frog's feet. Terribilis frogs are particularly vulnerable to this.

Put leaf litter directly on top of the substrate. Take the sphagnum moss and stuff it in the cracks of your cork walls. The small bit of ground up sphagnum that is an ingredient to ABG mix is fine.


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## Crestiekeeper

Pumilo said:


> Did you remember to presoak your ABG? If not, most of your water is probably running right through it, into the false bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> Bone dry ABG mix absolutely hates water. It repels it. ABG mix needs to be thoroughly soaked before putting it in the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> A layer of sphagnum moss over the substrate is so very old school. It irks me that people still push that in how-to videos. It is entirely unnecessary and can make for constantly wet feet on your frogs. This can actually lead to bacteria literally rotting the flesh off of your frog's feet. Terribilis frogs are particularly vulnerable to this.
> 
> 
> 
> Put leaf litter directly on top of the substrate. Take the sphagnum moss and stuff it in the cracks of your cork walls. The small bit of ground up sphagnum that is an ingredient to ABG mix is fine.


I think that might be the problem. I never did soak the abg. How would I go about doing that? I will move the moss and use it for HE background. 



kimcmich said:


> @Crestie,
> 
> If you are misting only, then that may be the problem. Misting alone will not moisten the deeper soil. Right now, only the surface is getting wet - and your plant's roots are beneath the surface. You need to water enough - at least once every week or 2 - to wet the soil all all the way through (at least as long as you see plant wilting). Once your plants have extended their roots, you will likely be able to get-by with misting alone - though likely at a higher frequency or longer duration than you're doing now.


I have started watering like you suggested I will see how it goes as well as soaking the abg.




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