# Sexing Azureus



## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

I bought two very young azureus (4 to 5 weeks out of water) in late January this year. They have grown to nice frogs, but I cannot tell their sex. 

One of them is quite a bit larger than the other, but otherwise their appearance is very similar. Toe pads are not really big, the shape/slope of their backs is generally the same, and I have not heard either of them calling (at least when I am around.) They don’t fight but they are not friendly to each other. In other words, they generally ignore each other.

Do you think I have two females?


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

Possibly, but pictures would definitely help.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

These are not the best pictures, but my frogs don't like a photoshoot.

Here's one of them I took today:










Here's the smaller one that I took a month and a half ago. It still looks pretty much the same, just a little fatter now:


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## Beeguy123 (Oct 6, 2011)

First pic looks to be a female, Second pic a male


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

Looks like 2 females to me...Dang that first one is hefty!

An aerial pic of the two side by side and showing the toe pads would really help identify trait contrasts.

On another note...I have a couple of females that have been housed together since their oow dates and they have been compatible for 16 months now. However, if you do have two females, and their current shapes are still similar to the pics, then the slimmer one maybe getting punked out of its food.

The second could be male with smaller pads, though.

If you have another tinc female, you could put the 2nd azureus in with it and watch the reaction. If the tinc tries to smother it, then its probably a female, if courting occurs, then its a male.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Here's a good article on sexing tinctorius. Azureus can be a bit tricky, but from what I can see, I'd guess 2 females. If #1 isn't a female, I'd be shocked.

Josh's Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » How to Visually Sex Dart Frogs


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

The first one is a female for sure. The second one isn't as obvious, but it looks to be a female as well.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you, all.

It sounds more and more that I have two females based on the pictures.

They are about one year old now. So, they should be sexually mature, right?

They are not showing any obvious aggression, but they are not really hanging out together, either.

Do their age and behaviour suggest that they are two females, too?
If they are a male and a female, shouldn't I be seeing courship behavior by now?

I suppose I should be looking for a mature male azureus now.


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

IME at one year, they are not at their full size potential, and have a few months to go before reproducing. 

Their behaviors do not indicate anything related to their sex, but rather frogs that have grown up together and one has not established dominance yet. Unless that frog in the second pic is still much thinner than the other, then you may have just not noticed a female to female stress thing going on. 

Their age can come into play at anytime really. Typical female behaviors can begin randomly IME but is more probable while reaching maturity.

By 12 months, you may not see any courting yet (which also depends on how much they like their environment), but I've seen a male call as early as nine months before.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

jdooley195 said:


> you may have just not noticed a female to female stress thing going on.


I often wondered about that since my second frog has been smaller and thinner for quite some time. 



> By 12 months, you may not see any courting yet (which also depends on how much they like their environment), but I've seen a male call as early as nine months before.


I will give them a little more time before I try to introduce another frog, then.

So far I have not heard any call from their vivarium. I've even played a clip of a male Azureus calling to see if they respond. My varadero male seems to respond to a call from a varadero male played on YouTube. Then again, my varadero has been calling for a few months now.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

So, we are pretty confident that the 1st frog is a female.

Here are three new pictures of the 2nd frog:




























I don't have a picture of them side by side at this moment. They tend to hide in the jungle a lot, and I am afraid that I end up distroying their home if I tried to catch them for a photo shoot.


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

Well, that looks like a perfectly healthy frog! I'd doubt any bad vibes are getting passed around in that viv.

This frog is built exactly like my main male breeder, but it's toes are just not making it easy for me to figure it out. On that note, my males are usually shorter in length (up to 1/4") than my females.

Try looking at their throats from a side-view, males sometimes have sagging pouches. (I assume from calling)


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

jdooley195 said:


> Try looking at their throats from a side-view, males sometimes have sagging pouches. (I assume from calling)


The frog does not appear to have a sagging pouch, but I have not heard any calling in the viv, yet.

I will be patient for a few more months. If the frog #2 does not sing or develop larger toe pads by next summer, I will start a search for a male.

Thank you all again for the help.


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