# Will a frog always show signs of being exposed to toxins?



## vivariman (Sep 26, 2007)

I recently lost two frogs, and I am looking to find an answer. Here is the info:

The frogs were two leucs, and I got them in October 2008, when they were around 6 months old. They stayed in a very simple tank with some some cork bark and plants until I put them into a show tank somwhere around a month ago. Last week, I looked into the tank when I was going to feed them, and didn't see them. This went on for a few days. After about a week passed, I deemed them dead, becuase the tank was lightly planted, and I would usually see them every day out and about. I am worried, because I do not know what the problem is and thus do not know how to fix it for future residents, and I do not want to scrap everything in the tank because the some of the wood and plants are amazing and took a very long time to put together. 

I do have some possible explanations though. On the first day that I deemed them missing, I noticed that the edge of the lid (a plastic attachment to the glass) was raised up slightly, about a half an inch. Seeing as they spent most of their time climbing up the glass over and over, it is possible that they got out. However, I have not found them anywhere after doing a pretty thorough search.

My second idea is that they were exposed to toxins, and I have two possible sources. The first one is that the driftwood I have is pine, and the chemicals killed them. They do not smell too much like pine, but some of the pieces of driftwood were collected in areas where pine trees are dominant.

The other possible source is that after inspecting my plants, I realised that my ET ferns had some of the little white balls in the root masses, from when they were in a pot. I am not sure what these are, fertilizer or just moisture retainers, but I feel that they could have caused my problems.

The problem with the toxin theory is that the frogs showed no problems until they were gone, but now that I think of it I hadn't heard the male call after being in the new tank for 2 weeks or so. Then again, he never called too often before that. Would the frogs most likely show signs of being poisons before dying? Any other ideas on what could have happened?

If you read this far, and have any input, thank you.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

its time to make a better viv! the pine needs to GO. it contains a TON of very potent chemicals and oils, regardless of whether or not it smells.

the little white balls are pearlite. it is not a fretilizer but aids in drainage and aeration of soil. there are reports that it has caused death due to being ingested and causing an impaction, but the fact that both are presumed dead doesnt point to that. 

IMO take everything out of the tank. scrap everything but the plants and wash and sanitize them carefully. whats worse, loosing some driftwood and plant growth or the next frogs to go in the enclosure?

james


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

first of all, if they did get out it would be very hard to find them even if they died.

second, if they were poisoned by the fertilizer, they would have acted very weird before they died. kind of like they were drunk actually.

third, pine is fine. its cedar that contains the toxins that kill amphibians.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

In case you haven't seen this thread.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/56086-pine-driftwoodwood-safe-vivariums.html


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

no corpus delicti .. I always like to think that the little fellows escaped to the wild, slipped through the little space, ran quickly to the front door and out into the front yard the first time it gets open. In any event, mopani, grapewood, cypress or ghostwood from now on.


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## vivariman (Sep 26, 2007)

I haven't been on the forums for a while and seem to have lost the edit button...

EDIT: The wood I have is POSSIBLY pine. Not sure. Better safe than sorry though. But again my question is:

If they died from toxins in the wood, would they show any signs of it before dying?

My tank was packed with wood branches ect, it was very cool. Now I have to find a bunch of neat driftwood without spending a fortune...


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

If I had to guess, I'd say the smell of the pine caused them to climb out when the tank was cracked open.
Also, it's important to know what type of wood you are using, and to boil it before putting it in the viv.


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