# Which substrate?



## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

I'm a beginner and I'm starting to gather what I need for my first vivarium. Since I'm from Canada, I don't have access to ABG. However, I have access to Jungle Jewel and NEHERP substrate. Do any of you have experience with one or the other? Which one would you recommend? I would like to have leucs and I already have a 18x18x24. I plan on doing a false bottom.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Josh's Frogs ships to Canada, and they have ABG.

Edit: looks as if NEHERP carries ABG, as well:

http://www.neherpetoculture.com/substratesvivarium

Another edit: Pangea ships to Canada, and sells ABG:

https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/abg-substrate.html


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

Where are you in Canada that you can't make your own? I live in Calgary (where junglejewels is) and I make my own. Orchid bark, peat moss/coco fiber, AAA spaghnum moss, charcoal are all very easily sourcable. The only thing that's not is tree fern fiber but that aren't many people in Canada that have access to it. I did an order and got a ton of it from Josh's frogs one time though. Even then lots of people don't use tree fern fiber and have had ABG that's lasted years.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

indrap said:


> Even then lots of people don't use tree fern fiber and have had ABG that's lasted years.


I am interested in this statement. Do you have a source on it? I am very curious how ABG mixes without tree fern fibers are holding up over the long term.

Mark


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

indrap said:


> The only thing that's not is tree fern fiber but that aren't many people in Canada that have access to it.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tree-Fern-Fiber-/192710980824


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## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Josh's Frogs ships to Canada, and they have ABG.
> 
> Edit: looks as if NEHERP carries ABG, as well:
> 
> ...


I'm in Quebec. I checked and they can ship to Canada but I have to add 50$ US just for shipping. I can have the NEHerp locally. That's why I wanted to know if anybody had experience with it.


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## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

indrap said:


> Where are you in Canada that you can't make your own? I live in Calgary (where junglejewels is) and I make my own. Orchid bark, peat moss/coco fiber, AAA spaghnum moss, charcoal are all very easily sourcable. The only thing that's not is tree fern fiber but that aren't many people in Canada that have access to it. I did an order and got a ton of it from Josh's frogs one time though. Even then lots of people don't use tree fern fiber and have had ABG that's lasted years.


I'm in Quebec. I just didn't want the trouble of making my own and have extra and it would be more expensive too. I have access to NEHerp locally and thought I'd ask before trying it out. I can order Jungle Jewel but with some extra cost for shipping.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Socratic Monologue said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tree-Fern-Fiber-/192710980824


That is painful! That's $20 (US) _a quart_. I think I was paying 10 or 12 dollars a gallon when I bought mine a while back. It makes sense that it would be more now, but that is rough!

Mark


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## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> That is painful! That's $20 (US) _a quart_. I think I was paying 10 or 12 dollars a gallon when I bought mine a while back. It makes sense that it would be more now, but that is rough!
> 
> Mark


Tell me about it. It sucks that I have to pay 4x for the same thing. At least I can get a gallon of NEHerp for 10$ Can. I guess I'll try it and see how well it works.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah, you might be stuck. Do we know for fact that Turface products are not available in Canada? That's what I use and it has worked for a long time for me.

Mark


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## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

Encyclia said:


> Yeah, you might be stuck. Do we know for fact that Turface products are not available in Canada? That's what I use and it has worked for a long time for me.
> 
> Mark


First time I hear about it. I'll check it out. Thanks for the info.


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> indrap said:
> 
> 
> > Even then lots of people don't use tree fern fiber and have had ABG that's lasted years.
> ...


Just from people in my city, because again, tree fern fiber is endangered and hard to come by in canada without paying a lot. Just as an example, jungle jewels exotics does not use tree fern fiber afaik. There is another company close to where I live called Ecouarium (sells dart frogs and exotic plants), when I talked to them they dont use tree fern for the same reason.

I'm not claiming this is the best path to go down, I'm just saying there are people that have definitely had success without tree fern fiber.



Socratic Monologue said:


> indrap said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing that's not is tree fern fiber but that aren't many people in Canada that have access to it.
> ...


Lots of added costs for canadians...



FauxEmperor said:


> indrap said:
> 
> 
> > Where are you in Canada that you can't make your own? I live in Calgary (where junglejewels is) and I make my own. Orchid bark, peat moss/coco fiber, AAA spaghnum moss, charcoal are all very easily sourcable. The only thing that's not is tree fern fiber but that aren't many people in Canada that have access to it. I did an order and got a ton of it from Josh's frogs one time though. Even then lots of people don't use tree fern fiber and have had ABG that's lasted years.
> ...


It would be cheaper still to buy your own stuff I think.

Also in another note, neherp is still running in canada? I wasnt aware integrated exotics is still in business, I never had success trying to get in contact with em



Encyclia said:


> Yeah, you might be stuck. Do we know for fact that Turface products are not available in Canada? That's what I use and it has worked for a long time for me.
> 
> Mark


Turface is definitely available in some places in canada, i believe Mostly Just Geckoes sells it by the gallon or so for not too expensive


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## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

Integrated Exotics had a problem with their website last week but they seem to be in business. I never bought anything from them but that's where I'll pick most of the stuff I need for my vivarium. Hopefully, I will have a better experience with them than you had. T

Thanks for your help


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

FauxEmperor said:


> Integrated Exotics had a problem with their website last week but they seem to be in business. I never bought anything from them but that's where I'll pick most of the stuff I need for my vivarium. Hopefully, I will have a better experience with them than you had. T
> 
> Thanks for your help


Interesting, maybe I'll try contacting them again. I had a friend that got the neherp moss from them a long time ago, and I think he was saying that some other people trying to get it at the same time had trouble with them. Maybe things are different now though. Do they have a shop you're going to or what? If you're in Montreal, you could maybe check out rium.ca. Kevin is good to deal with, though I've never used or asked about his substrate mix


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## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

indrap said:


> Interesting, maybe I'll try contacting them again. I had a friend that got the neherp moss from them a long time ago, and I think he was saying that some other people trying to get it at the same time had trouble with them. Maybe things are different now though. Do they have a shop you're going to or what? If you're in Montreal, you could maybe check out rium.ca. Kevin is good to deal with, though I've never used or asked about his substrate mix


I don't know if I'll order online or go to Montreal. It's about 30min but sometimes it's less complicated to have things ship directly to me. I'll contact them to see what's best. I know about Rium. I planned on getting plants from them and maybe the frogs if they have any when I'm ready to order. There are no substrate on their website but I can enquire to see what he uses, that's a good idea.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

indrap said:


> tree fern fiber is endangered


Just to clarify, not all species/genera are endangered. This is not anywhere near my area of knowledge, but the species that is currently being harvested and sold under the 'Fernwood' label is apparently _Dicksonia antarctica_ which is not CITES listed.


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## indrap (Aug 28, 2018)

Socratic Monologue said:


> indrap said:
> 
> 
> > tree fern fiber is endangered
> ...


Interesting, I'll keep that in mind. I've been told by everyone otherwise so I figured.


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## andrewdingemans (Jan 15, 2019)

I've placed an order with them when the site went back up on Monday. I emailed them to see what the time will be until they ship out, but no response. I'll be using the NEHERP substrate since the shipping duties and taxes dont make sense for the ABG.


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## FauxEmperor (Jan 17, 2019)

andrewdingemans said:


> I've placed an order with them when the site went back up on Monday. I emailed them to see what the time will be until they ship out, but no response. I'll be using the NEHERP substrate since the shipping duties and taxes dont make sense for the ABG.


I'll order soon from them, probably in a week or two. Keep me posted.


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

FYI, I've been using Turface for planted aquariums for years, and it's performance in the vivarium the plants respond excellently as well.

Cheap and effective, and doesn't break down.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

JimM said:


> FYI, I've been using Turface for planted aquariums for years, and it's performance in the vivarium the plants respond excellently as well.
> 
> Cheap and effective, and doesn't break down.


And here I was using Eco-Complete like a sucker!

Mark


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