# Hybrids Being Sold at Local Pet Store



## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

I went to a local exotic pet store yesterday and I was talking to the manager when it came up that I keep frogs. She seemed nice and sort of knowledgeable about the animals she sold up until this point. She told me that they ocassionally get in darts, so I asked what kind and what the source was. She told me that they get "mostly cobalts and standard stuff but sometimes we get in these cool hybrids like these thumbnail hybrids that look kinda like little azurea (yes azurea)." She went on to explain how there are only a handful of sucessful breeders of darts on the country and she gets hers from some guy in Alabama who's name she forgot and is "relatively new but a really great breeder". 

She went on to tell me that she only feeds her darts crickets and tons of other stuff that was either weird, incorrect, or just flat out stupid.

Not to mention she sells WC P. bicolor (tree frog not dart) for $300.

This whole thing got me wondering, how many pet stores are selling hybrids in their "assorted poison arrow frogs" tanks and how many of us have hybrids either or have bought the decendants of hybrids? How common do you guys think this is?

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## Sea-Agg09 (Feb 2, 2013)

Probably more common that we would hope. It's similar to fish shops that sell dyed or tattooed fish. While deplorable and would literally sicken some, there are few repercussions for these businesses. There are few people that will actually notice and even fewer that will do anything about it. 

The best thing we can do is stop giving them our business.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Hard to answer that question...
Most Froggers that I know do not buy frogs from "Pet Stores" not saying all are bad, the key is references and frog lineage.
Will go out on a limb here but if you were looking for a AKC registered beagle etc. would you buy it from a pet store or a breeder who breeds the dogs and has lineage info plus pics and you can see the pups and parents in person...
Plus there is a vendor feedback section on PDF forums. 
I see you are in GA plenty of Froggers there I would recommend you touch base or attend their frog meets. IMO Pet stores are for impulse buyers.
Not sure if that helped or not but as always "buyer beware."


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Hybrids are usually 'dumped' on unknowledgeable pet shops because the breeders cannot offer their frogs on here without consequences. Unless they openly describe them as hybrids, they should not be selling or trading their offspring. Breeders can accidentally get hybrids, but these should only be a display animal. I have seen specialty reptile shops even try and sell hybrids as non-hybrids... so, it's not so uncommon, especially in your local pet shops.

Peter Keane
JungleWorld


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## fishieness (Jun 26, 2009)

Also possible, from the sound of it, that she just has no idea what she's talking about. Maybe she's confusing a "morph", ie. R. amazonicus Iquitos, as a "hybrid." Or maybe the breeder said it was an R. imitator intermedius. And she googled imitator, and then googled intermedius and saw that they clearly were not the same frog. Must be a hybrid. Boom
Or she just doesn't know what species it is and assumes it is some new hybrid. It sounds cool to someone who doesn't know any better.
Either way, I'm sure it happens, but I don't think it's as common as most people on this board seems to think it is. Of course, some pet stores are better than others, and some are down right horrible. But most people that get in to darts are eventually going to explore their hobby via the internet, and will probably see the negative views of hybridization long before they start breeding. Notice how 1/2 of the new members here make a thread about hybridization within their first 10 posts. Hybrid darts are not an economical market. They only people that will buy them are those that know so little, they cannot keep them alive, ie: not repeat customers. Don't buy the frogs and the store will stop buying them.
Also, I'd have her give me a call when they get more in, just to see what this "azurea" thumbnail looks like.
Now, mixing locals and blood lines. I'm sure that happens a lot.


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## that Frog Guy (May 13, 2012)

How many Pet Shops actually carry Poison Dart Frogs?

The Big Chains don't of course (PetSmart, PetCo, Pet Supplies Plus, etc.)

Here is Michigan I only know of one store that sells Poison Dart Frogs - Preuss Pets in Lansing - and they Breed their own Frogs.

Other than that in my 25 years of visiting many many pet stores here in Michigan I believe I only came across Poison Dart Frogs once maybe twice.

The Frogs that are at the Pet Stores are 2 to 4 times the price of what you would pay at a Reptile Show too so it is silly to buy from Pet Stores just on Price alone not to mention their lack of knowledge on Frogs.

Most people Poison Dart Frogs from Reptile Shows or Online.


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## CJ PELCH (Apr 9, 2013)

I have gotten my dart frogs mostly from private breeders...but i also have gotten them from "PET KINGDOM" of san diego. They say "RON" gets them from LA REPTILES but as far as i know they don't have dart frogs...does anyone know this for sure?


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

LA has auratus, tinctorious, and Mantellas. As well as some Boophis from time to time.

D


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## CJ PELCH (Apr 9, 2013)

Dendroguy said:


> LA has auratus, tinctorious, and Mantellas. As well as some Boophis from time to time.
> 
> D


What are the all black ones with orange stripes.... ? They sold pet kingdom a breeding pair....although i dont think they are a breeding pair i think they are a proven pair. Pet kingdom just markets them to sell. They are going for 249.00. Ron claims he got them from LA...he bought 2 different sets of breeding pairs...."BREEDING" puh... whatever... any who..i bought the breeding pair of tincs....the female was WAAAY to fat...so i bought her..only to find her dead the next morning on the leaf litter...the male was fine.... he was a pig. Ate over 100 Fruit flies that next day..i returned him anyway..got my full money back


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## simonphelps (May 29, 2012)

that Frog Guy said:


> How many Pet Shops actually carry Poison Dart Frogs?
> 
> The Big Chains don't of course (PetSmart, PetCo, Pet Supplies Plus, etc.)
> 
> ...


Preuss pets does sell darts in Michigan and Hybrids are part of the selection. (I'm just getting correct info out there, I'm still a big fan of Preuss even if I dont agree with every choice their store makes) Pruess also buys lots of their frogs and doesent only breed them their selves. 

Also just my opinion but but I'm going with this happens MORE than some people think. 

I am from Michigan and I know of 3 stores that sell Dart frogs. I also know for a fact that at least 2 of these stores are selling Hybrids. One has them labeled hybrids and their priced at 1/2 to 1/3 the price and the other store has no clue what their doing. They have 3 different species in their tank, all of their frogs are half dead and they only feed crickets. It's like a poor zoo exhibit, which is an entirely different subject.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, I've been in the herp hobby for over 25 years. There was a time, a LONG time ago (ie: before the internet), that unless you KNEW breeders or wholesalers, there was no choice OTHER than petstores. That has changed over the last 15 years. You could have 10 breeders within 5 miles of you, but you'd never know it, because there was no forums, no boards, no websites. For about a decade, there was the ADG newsletter where you could put classified ads. Yes, petstores are notorious for providing poor care for exotics. That is nothign new. They are in it for the money. Setting up proper tanks costs money and kills their profit margins. We have a chain here in State called Scales and Tails. They are the filthiest, dirty, mite infested, nasty reptile shops. Unfortunatly, they are the ONLY reptile store really around. The last time they had darts, they were 2 baby Tincs, 1 alanis, and one baby patricia. They were on the exo terra tree fern fiber (completely dry) with a single hide. No plants, no water dish, no spagnum, no moss, nothing. It was a gorgeous little Patricia, and I had a couple youngster patricias at home I was growing up, so I bought him. Still doing well several months later. The alanis I did not purchase quickly desicated and died in the dried out tank. (kinda felt guilty for leaving him there). Personally, I rarely patronize pet stores anymore. I've worked at nearly every single pet store in my area as a teen and into my 20's, and each and every one of them disgust me. While I've seen hybrids out there, never in a pet store, and never for sale period anywhere. I dont doubt it happens though.


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## JJhuang (Feb 5, 2010)

CJ PELCH said:


> I have gotten my dart frogs mostly from private breeders...but i also have gotten them from "PET KINGDOM" of san diego. They say "RON" gets them from LA REPTILES but as far as i know they don't have dart frogs...does anyone know this for sure?


Pet Kingdom buys from some local breeders as well. Dont think they produce their own.


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## that Frog Guy (May 13, 2012)

simonphelps said:


> Preuss pets does sell darts in Michigan and Hybrids are part of the selection. (I'm just getting correct info out there, I'm still a big fan of Preuss even if I dont agree with every choice their store makes) Pruess also buys lots of their frogs and doesent only breed them their selves.
> 
> Also just my opinion but but I'm going with this happens MORE than some people think.
> 
> I am from Michigan and I know of 3 stores that sell Dart frogs. I also know for a fact that at least 2 of these stores are selling Hybrids. One has them labeled hybrids and their priced at 1/2 to 1/3 the price and the other store has no clue what their doing. They have 3 different species in their tank, all of their frogs are half dead and they only feed crickets. It's like a poor zoo exhibit, which is an entirely different subject.


Which are the other 2 stores in Michigan that sell PDF?


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

that Frog Guy said:


> How many Pet Shops actually carry Poison Dart Frogs?
> 
> The Big Chains don't of course (PetSmart, PetCo, Pet Supplies Plus, etc.)
> 
> ...


I agree with what Simon said, Preuss sells hybrids, they are marked as such in the store. They also buy a lot from Joshs and a couple of other people. They do breed some of their own though as well.



that Frog Guy said:


> Which are the other 2 stores in Michigan that sell PDF?


VIP in Grand Rapids does... because Ive sold to them.


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't think I'll be visiting exotic pet stores anymore. I like to find local ones just to see what they have and use them like free zoos, but every one I go to has sick/dying/malnurished/improperly cared for animals. I went to one that had 10 mantellas in a bone dry nano exo terra. I never buy from them and it's getting to where it stresses me out just to see these animals. I don't know why I still go.

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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

In Nashville before that huge flood there was an exotic pet store...Emerald Pets? Something like that, but they _always_ had healthy animals, no mixing or hybrids either. Most tanks that the tincs were in would be 18*18*18. Too bad they closed.

D


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

Are you talking about the shop in norcross on holcomb bridge? I had contacted them about darts when i first started looking for some (i ended up getting frogs from a local). They emailed me saying they had some terribilis so i decided to go check them out. The sign for me was when i asked the guy and he walked to the tank and started tearing up the sphagnum moss searching around. I told him to just stop the second he said "oh hey, theres the newts! I swear it was in here, i know we didnt sell him" then walked out. I never heard about any hybrids though.


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

papafrogger said:


> Are you talking about the shop in norcross on holcomb bridge? I had contacted them about darts when i first started looking for some (i ended up getting frogs from a local). They emailed me saying they had some terribilis so i decided to go check them out. The sign for me was when i asked the guy and he walked to the tank and started tearing up the sphagnum moss searching around. I told him to just stop the second he said "oh hey, theres the newts! I swear it was in here, i know we didnt sell him" then walked out. I never heard about any hybrids though.


PM'd you

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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I know Preuss's sells PDFs, I have also seen them in a store in Northern Detroit, I think it was Roseville I think somewhat near Oceans and Seas. They had a small reptile area maybe 2 tanks with PDFs. I originally bought my first PDFs at Feed n Seed in Fort Gratiot, but they had to be ordered. I also think I may have seen them at VI pets in Grand Rapids. Outside of Preuss's though I typically only see 1 or 2 tanks and they only stock 1 or some of the "big 3" tinctorius , auratus, leucomelas.

I think it could actually be good for some MI breeders whom are near various stores to try to setup a consignment system rather than strait sales. Despite what others feel I think it is a good thing to get PDFs into pet stores. Most people are never going to see them otherwise, this is the only way to do it. There are alot of creative ways you could imagine selling them. For instance setting up a display tank with 1 species then having an order book next to it with all the species. Something the store could manage. Making sure the store has everything they need in stock to sell someone a complete setup and provide food. Pet stores make alot of money when they deck people out with a whole setup that is way better for them then just selling them an animal.


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## garrettslaughter (Jul 11, 2013)

This sounds really very much discouraging to visit any pet store. However, this only happens when you end up landing over any unknown and unpopular kind of store. Visiting a reputed and well established store can give you a different experience. Hence take time to find out the best to get good deals.


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## Coqui (Jan 17, 2013)

There are some amazing frogs being sold
On this forum by people who will give you
All the info pertaining to the frog. Also
The sellers will answer any questions that
You have most of time. I would never buy
From a pet store unless I knew and trusted 
The owner. I'm also a Reefer and have been
Keeping hard and softies for years and have
Come across a lot of fish store owners selling
Corals as Aussies when it was obvious they were
From a different locale. 
BUYER BE AWARE


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## johnbaucom (Jul 16, 2013)

garrettslaughter tell me reputed and well established store near alaska


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