# Frog Update: Nellis' 30g Vert



## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

I recieved this 30 gallon tank for free (from my dad), and instantly knew what to do. I've been lurking around this forum for a little while, checking out people's vivs with much envy. One of the main restrictions with this project is no drilling (self-imposed challenge), which has kind of made things a PITA so far.










The first part of the construction was to install a retaining wall for the water feature. I used 1/4" glass that I had cut at a glass shop down the street. It actually held water after my first shot with the silicone (pats himself on back... recalling nightmarish DIY aquarium project gone horribly wrong)










The water feature will use a little Mini-Jet pump to bring water to the top, where it will cascade down some corkbark. The pump box said that at 3 feet of head there shouldn't be any flow, but it looks like it's working fine to me.










The false bottom before being siliconed... The pump is going in the back left corner.










Some cork bark I picked up on my trip to Black Jungle










Here's the preliminary hardscape. I siliconed some coco fiber to the back, then foamed in the wood pieces.



















I made a last minute decision to make the viv a corner display, and put fiber in on a second side because the bark/foam takes up so much of the visible area on that side. You can also see the pump placement. I also put some window screening spline (grey strips) along the inside edge of the tank to seal against the glass door I'll eventually be putting in.



















Here you can see a little bit of the vent I put in the top.










My original plan was to buy AH Supply kits (4x13 watt kits) and build a custom hood, but after a long night of balancing the costs and feasability of asthetics, I decided to use these lights from the Home Despot. At a whopping 20$ each, they provide 27 watts of 6700k light (1.35 watts/dollar), whereas the AH supply lights were about 25$ for 13 watts including bulbs and shipping (0.52 watts/dollar). Mounting them (building a hood) and finding space for four ballasts also presented a tough challenge.










I took them apart, and used velcro to attach the lamps and ballasts to the side to the side of the viv that won't be visible.










Here you can see the bulkhead that I'm going to plumb an ultrasonic humidifier into.










The vent frame is made from the plastic pieces that come with cheap DIY poster frames that you get at craft stores. I simply siliconed them in to the top of the tank.










I also slapped on a zoo-med UTH as a backup in case the temps drop too much in the winter time. I only bought this because I thought of heating after I had sealed all the entrances into the tank. If I could do it over again I'd put a small submersable aquarium heater in the water and run the cord out of the tank.










That's all I have pictures of so far, but I'll be updating pretty soon. Feedback would be great.

-Nate


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2006)

awesome, the lights are ingenious. cant wait to see it finished!!!


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

ehh delete me mistake


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

What a steal on the lights, and the look great. This doesnt look like a first time viv to me . Hehe I wouldn't have to balls to test my water feature on the dining table, glad it didnt leak on ya. Nice job, keep us posted


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Very nice. Excellent retrofit on the lights. 

I'd be really careful using the UTH. It only heats the glass in a small area which will build up thermal stresses that may be high enough to crack the glass. Same goes with the ballasts.


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Wow, what a clean professional looking setup. Wish my first viv or any of my others for that matter were so well thought out. I intend to do a really nice job for once for the 2 vivs that I am currently setting up.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2006)

Great light source, and great infrastructure to the tank!
Be sure to post pics when you start planting.


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

Thanks for the comments all.

Defaced pointed out the one major thing I'm worried about with this project. After buyng the UTH I did a bunch of research and found out that the UTH heaters are really unreliable. Luckily I live on the 4th floor of my building so hopefully this place will be nice and toasty this winter.

I had to reattach the door today because the weld-epoxy stuff I used gripped the acrylic fine, but not the glass. I readhered it (after a lot of scraping) with silicone and it seems to work pretty good now. My next task is painting everything but the viewing panes black, trimming exess silicone, and making a small sliding-glass vent cover.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2006)

After i read this i did some thinking and it seems like it would be a cool idea instead of painting the sides black, getting some limo tint and puting it on em. that way the inside would still be black yet you could see through it. Has anyone tried this...


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

studunn000 said:


> After i read this i did some thinking and it seems like it would be a cool idea instead of painting the sides black, getting some limo tint and puting it on em. that way the inside would still be black yet you could see through it. Has anyone tried this...


It is a cool idea, but the reason I'm painting the outside (and only about a 2" circumfrence around the edges) is to hide stuff that I don't want to be seen period. That sounds like a good idea for my fish tank though. Stupid fish chase their reflections all day long.


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

Just thought I'd quick update... Got the tank painted... It's about 95% completed aside from flora/fauna. I also got my first round of plants in too... will post some pics soon.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2006)

rowdy viv man!! cant wait to see it with plants!


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Nate
Nicely done. Got all the essentials in there plus some...

S


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## brettlt (Oct 5, 2006)

What is the name of the light that you purchased from Home Depot? That looks like an interesting option.


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## brettlt (Oct 5, 2006)

I found the light at Home Depot last night. It is made by Hampton Bay, model #1127. The light that it uses is made by Lights of America, model #9024B. (http://www.lightsofamerica.com/9024B.htm) It puts out 1800 lumens according to their vendor site. And it lists the color as 2700 K. However, the light itself says 6500 K on it, so I think the website is wrong.
I couldn't resist buying it. I thought about using 3 of them on the 39 gallon paludarium that I am building, but decided against it. I have it setting on my desk at work, and I will continue using it there.


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

The light is definately 6700k... I have some 6700ks by LOA that I use on my cherry shrimp breeding tank and they're the same color. I have the entire first round of plants in... The tank is almost starting to look habitable. There's some foam in the water feature but I hear that will go away eventually? Also... I'm just using tap right now. In the long run am I going to have to switch to RO or comparable water? My ph is 9, gH and kh almost nonexistent. Very soft water. This lack of mineral buffering capacity leads me to believe that after a few hours of trickling over peat and coco fiber the pH will fall to a nice acidity. What about chlorine/chloramines? Should I worry about these? Does someone know of a good thread they could point me to which discusses toxicity issues with items such as copper and nitrogenous compounds?


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

Here are some long-promised photos. Plant list includes:
Bolbitis Heudelotii (African Water Fern??), Microsorium pteropus var. "Narrow-Leaf " (Narrow-Leaf Java Fern), Pogostemon helferi (Downoi), Hemianthus micranthemoides (Baby's Tears), Vesicularia ferriei (Weeping Moss), Unidentified Aquatic Moss (Taiwan moss?) Unidentified terrestrial Mosses, Riccia fluitans, Monoselenium tenerum (Pellia), Fissidens fontanus (Fissidens Moss), Lilaeopsis brasiliensis (Micro sword), and an as-yet unidentified ivy. I think there may also be a few stray pieces of Hemianthus callitrichoides in there somewhere. Please excuse the sloppiness of the photos.

Enjoy!

Full Frontal









Side Shot









Crude Drip Wall: Ferns and Mosses




































Downoi









Little stream









Baby's Tears


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Looking good. It will be great once the moss settles in and perks up.


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## brooklyndartfrogs (Nov 19, 2005)

nellis said:


> Here are some long-promised photos. Plant list includes:
> Bolbitis Heudelotii (African Water Fern??), Microsorium pteropus var. "Narrow-Leaf " (Narrow-Leaf Java Fern), Pogostemon helferi (Downoi), Hemianthus micranthemoides (Baby's Tears), Vesicularia ferriei (Weeping Moss), Unidentified Aquatic Moss (Taiwan moss?) Unidentified terrestrial Mosses, Riccia fluitans, Monoselenium tenerum (Pellia), Fissidens fontanus (Fissidens Moss), Lilaeopsis brasiliensis (Micro sword), and an as-yet unidentified ivy. I think there may also be a few stray pieces of Hemianthus callitrichoides in there somewhere. Please excuse the sloppiness of the photos.
> 
> Enjoy!
> ...


It seems that most of these plants are 'true aquatic' , have you used these in the past?
My only experience has been with 'Pelia' being used in the vivs that I have and this plant needs water at its 'roots' or very damp placement.
But it does well.
Andy


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Looks great so far.


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## bradadams (Jun 3, 2004)

Wow. I really like the looks of this tank. However, I will second what Andy said about most, or at least some of the plants you have used being totally aquatic.

I bet java moss would really take off in that terrarium. And maybe some Anubias or Cryptocoryne. Keep us updated.

Brad


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

Thanks for feedback everyone.

Yes... you guys nailed it exactly. About 90% of these are true aquatics. However, many, if not all of them have no problem growing totally emersed. A large majority of true aquatics that are sold commercially are grown emersed in huge, shallow ponds. Actually, some of these plants came from my fishtank and went through a an acclimation phase in a dry tank before going in the viv. The Bolbitis fern took the transition really hard, but some of the plants are already sending out new leaves. I've seen growth on the downoi, the java fern and the baby's tears already.


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## brettlt (Oct 5, 2006)

I am pretty sure with all amphibians you do need to worry about chlorine. You can remove the chlorine from water by letting it set out for 24 hours so that it will evaporate out. You can also buy drops made for fish tanks that get rid of the chlorine. Or you can use spring water or distilled water. Spring and distilled water are less than $0.75/gallon at Walmart. However, there is still some discussion about whether using distilled water is safe. (I think it depends on how it is distilled.) Reverse Osmosis water is supposed to be good, except that it might be too pure, and I read that some fish stores sell it for as little as $0.33/gallon. I will have to check up on that option myself.

These threads look like good discussions of water to use.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... t=chlorine

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... t=chlorine

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... t=chlorine


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

nellis,

Wow, I really love the look you've achieved! It looks so natural! Great job. I hope the plants do well for you--do keep us updated.


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

updated photo shoot:

The plants are starting to show some progression. I put an unidenttified orchid in the viv that wasn't doing so well in my windowsill and it already has 3 new shoots and new roots. Also some tiny little mushrooms appeared from the wood that the orchid is anchored into!!!




























I also added some more baby's tears to the "pitcher-like" upper section of the cork log. The emersed growth is so much more appealing than the submersed is... almost as small as HC.










This is a crypt that I pulled out of my fish tank... the roots are nearly 8 inches long.










You can also see the new, terrestrial growth on the narrow-leaf java fern. The leaves that are smaller and more eliptical are the new growth.










Enjoy!


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Glad to know things are still going well. Those are cute little shrooms! I love the fine scale vegetation you have in there and that java fern looks very nice. Going back to your previous pics, you sure did a fantastic job piecing together those cork pieces--it looks so much like a tree trunk.

From the looks of it your lighting must be doing a good job at penetrating to the bottom of the tank, huh? Verts can be tricky that way...

Show us more of the orchid sometime!


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

the lighting is the one thing i'm wishing i had thought a little more about during construction. the bottome barely gets any of the light. i'm considering building a hood so i can cram some more pc units in there and really give those plants the zap.


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

Some udpate shots:

The mushrooms opened up their caps:



















New shoots on the unidentified orchid:










Fissidens attached and displaying new growth:


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Those shrooms look awesome, enjoy em while they last. 

Looks like your tank is gonna look great now that the plants are taking off. I'm really interested in seeing how it looks a few months from now. It's gonna be killer!


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2006)

nellis said:


> I also added some more baby's tears to the "pitcher-like" upper section of the cork log. The emersed growth is so much more appealing than the submersed is... almost as small as HC.


This one looks amazingly similar to my ground dweller, that I got growing in my 29 gallon tank:

































I keyed it out to_ Micranthemum micranthemoides._ Im almost positive that yours is the same. Glad to see others with the same plant.


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

paul: thanks, I wish I could get some good shots of the plants growing in the lesser-lit areas. The mosses and pellia and whatnot are really the plants that are showing the most progress. It's just too dark to shoot some areas of the viv. I'll have to work on a lighting solution.

Khamul: They do look pretty similar. With a lot of plants its hard to tell without flowers. Also, I believe the name has been changed from Micranthemum micranthemoides to Hemianthus micranthemoides.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2006)

Oh, I thought the name change was the other way around? 

Mine seems to do only well near the water's edge, but yours seems to do well away from the water.
Also mine is in bloom, I'll try to get a pic of the micro flowers tonight.


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

*Plant Sources?*

I love the Downoi in your shroom tank and have decided I really really need one, if not several. Where did you buy it? I'm not having any luck trying to google up sources.

Also I'm trying to find more narrow leaved Java fern. Your dripwall looks like exactly what I'm aiming for in my new tank.

Can you suggest some good mail-order online aquarium stores?

Thanks!
Anne


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## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

Nellis,

I'd like to know what you did to make that nice little pond. What substrate did you use, did you just fill it up from the glass until the false bottom? Construction Journal please!


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

Finally got som frogs : http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=190917#190917
I'll Up some more viv shots soon.

spydrmn12285: 
The pond kind of happened on accident. You can kind of see in the construction shots that I put a small, removable basket into the eggcrate as an access hatch/drain. I covered all the eggcrate and the hatch with no-see-um and then added 1-3 inches of eco-complete. The pond happened by itself, as the water level slowly rose. The drainage was not keeping up with the rate that the pump was circulating water back into the water feature. I started to get nervous as one day the water level had risen to the level of the front glass, and there was water on the floor. To remedy this I built an overflow standpipe out of a 1/2" acrylic tube that goes through the eggcrate and to the bottom of the reservior. It's hiden among the plants and keeps the water at a consistent level. To keep it from getting clogged and to frogproof it, I simply covered the opening with no-see-um.

candm519:
Unfortunately the downoi didn't make it. It all melted and I now have one small leaf that has sent out roots, but is not growing at all. I've no idea why, maybe the water was too soft, as I recently got an RO unit. I love the plant so much though that I'm going to give it another shot soon. I should also point out that nearly all the leaves died of with the narrow leaf java fern, however, they have sent out numerous small leaves that look more like microsword. Maybe these are the emersed form, but I'm not sure because there are still some longer leaves remaining. As for getting plants, by far the best option is to go to planted aquarium websites, to the for sale forums. I've had great experiences there, and there's always something interesting for sale. I go to "the planted tank" and "aquatic plant central".


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

*downoi (Pogostemon helferi)*

Thanks for your reply. I did find a downoi, (I can't remember now if it was eBay or Aquabid, since I've been dealing for quite a while directly with very helpful seller) but P**p** (who accept no blame and give no refunds) sent it into the last New England superfreeze instead of warm NC, so it finally arrived with only a bit of stem unmelted. And three days later it was part of the spaghnum. I have another on its way next week, though, and have great hopes and a mini terrarium ready for it for adaptation.

As for mushrooms--mine grew from a 'roasted' chunk of wild wood, after I put plants in niches too close to the stream of my recirculating waterfall, and wicked most of its water into the substrate. Only mine aren't cute, they look like carbuncles...and last for weeks. 

I did get some nice little tan umbrella ones in another terrarium topped with local garden center generic potting soil; this time I had overwatered it all by myself, no blaming a waterfall. I think I'll try 'seeding' my big tank with soil plugs hopefully full of underground ?hyphae, and try to spot-overwater them.


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## nellis (Aug 23, 2006)

That's interesting, but do you think its the water that is causing the mushrooms to sprout... I think they can be a reaction to myriad environmental changes-- even drought. That would make sense, though. Mu mushrooms popped up after only a week or two in the viv. I'd never seen them for the entire year that orchid was in a pot.


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