# Rio Canario anthonyi VS Buena Esperanze anthonyi



## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Are these two morphs from separate locals or are they the same morph with two different names.

Despite actaully seeing these species side by side to compare it appears from photographs they are very similar to the point they almost look identical.

I have discussed this with Sean Stewart a little but when doing further reasearch I found some people thought they were the same while others thought they were different. Sean says they are different.

I plan on getting a group of these either way if they are the same or different from the Canarios I already have but would just like to know as much backgroun info as possible.

If anyone has any valuable information on these please post. or any information at all.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

I was very curious about this as well.

Did you happen to talk to Sean about the Zarayunga Morphs? Those look like some Santa Isabels I've seen before.
He also lists Rio Saladillo is that the same as Rio Canario?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

www.DendroBase.de

Dendrobase is somewhat helpful, as are the Christenson books. However, without knowing the origin of the Rio Canario line from Tor I don't think we can really speculate.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

gothaicus said:


> I was very curious about this as well.
> 
> Did you happen to talk to Sean about the Zarayunga Morphs? Those look like some Santa Isabels I've seen before.
> He also lists Rio Saladillo is that the same as Rio Canario?


Rio Saladillo's are def different that than Rio Canarios, I had both to compare side by side, same with the SI's and Zarajunga...these are also both different, the Si's having a deeper cherry red color and white striping while the Zarajunga are paler red and more of a yellow white color and solid belies


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Maybe compare venter shots of Buena Esp and Rio Canarios?


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Ahh....I didn't know the Rio Canarios came from Tor.

So the Christenson books are somewhat helpful? I really wanted to pick them up for the anthonyi/tricolor parts but they are so expensive.

Dendrobase seems to have some morphs listed as anthonyi that are known as tricolor in the states.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Yes, because people don't actually pay attention to correct data. There are very few people working with true tricolors in the US. (And now wait, Ron will chime in...3...2...1). 

Real tricolor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF5iBd-6ROg


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

I compared the vents on both canarios and esperanza, both are reticulated, however my canarios are a bit more....Sean says that his canarios aren't as colorful as the espereanza, the red isn't as nice and the blue in the stripes isn't as bright and the striping on the back of the espereranza is more solid and less dotted like the canarios.

However my canarios have rather nice middle striping. which adds more confusion


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Aren't there two lines of Canario in the US? Tor and Stewart? They could reflect two separate populations.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

stemcellular said:


> Aren't there two lines of Canario in the US? Tor and Stewart? They could reflect two separate populations.


As far as I was informed all Rio Canarios came from Tor, but if i am wrong then what you say is most likely true, however i am pretty sure they all came from tor


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## ErikHa (Jun 10, 2010)

Just another name for marketing reasons would be my guess.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

ErikHa said:


> Just another name for marketing reasons would be my guess.


I wouldn't say that...if anything its a case of us in the US calling them one name while Europeans call it another.

However they could be two separate populations that are just very close to eachother.

I found Buena Esperanza, Ecaudor and its on an island in a river but the river is now rio canario, from what I can tell, and actaully I couldn't find a rio canario in ecaudor yet. So if this population is from that island then they would be a true population as long as rio canario doesn't pass by this island.

I'm going to have to ask Sean about the localities of these two frogs.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

THIS IS FROM AN EMAIL THAT TOR SENT ME:


It's hard to know. My frogs (the source of the Rio Canarios) are from frogs that came in over 15 years ago. Collection data isn't what I'd call good... I always took it as local name, figuring it was a nod to what a stream would sound like if the banks were inhabited by flocks of tricolor.

With the way these things come in, from the easiest accessed place at the time... it's likely the collection area is now built over... it could have a very different name...

Place names are more firm now... Buena Esperanza is an easy trip from Guayaquil... it wouldn't be impossible that they are from the same general population... I haven't seen the Buenas... and must say the people often don't have a good eye for difference... heck we don't have a good eye for the same... lumping when we should split and splitting when we should lump.

But a simple answer is that the Rio Canarios have been kept "pure" for over 15 years, representing a snapshot of a population... until we are at the point of having good genetic markers to show these populations are the same, why mix them?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah, makes sense. interesting that they have been here for 15 yrs. I didn't realize the line was that old.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

stemcellular said:


> Yeah, makes sense. interesting that they have been here for 15 yrs. I didn't realize the line was that old.


AFAIK, the Rio Canario are "The Tricolor formerly known as 8." Which Tor has had forever.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

yes, I remember, kinda like when Prince changed his name ...


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

FOLLOW UP FROM TOR

one of the old publications has belly drawings... because there isn't genetic pressure on the belly markings they can very greatly between frogs, who from the top look similar.

I'm interested in the new imports... but will likely wait... I have know knowledge on their background so can't speak on if they are different or not... but if they are real imports then sounds good.

For the anthonyi I have salvias that I think I've gotten enough in to the hobby that they are now common... and then another... much better stripes... but slow to breed... mostly because they are so old... we'll see how they go.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

stemcellular said:


> Yes, because people don't actually pay attention to correct data. There are very few people working with true tricolors in the US. (And now wait, Ron will chime in...3...2...1).


How did I miss this? Explains why my ears have been itching for the last two months...

And you're right.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Haha, funny Ron. George, any resolution to this? Not that I need any more anthonyi locales to be playing around with....


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