# Large Vivarium Construction Thread 50"W x 22"D x 56"H



## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I was going to wait until completion to start a construction thread, but questions from my door poll thread pushed me to post this now.

To start, I wanted to recess the cabinet (my Vivarium is the center section) into the wall--this way I minimized the amount of floor space I lost in my foyer.

The sides of the vivarium, cabinets, and shelves are 3/4" furniture grade oak plywood.

The bottom support for the vivarium is 2"x4", and the inside (mechanicals cabinet) is lined with 1/4" oak plywood. The bottom support is then topped with two pieces of 1/2" CDX plywood that I cross-laminated

I wired and plumbed to allow for mechanicals and misting prior to installing the back of the vivarium.

The back of the vivarium won't be seen, so I used some spare 1/2" CDX plywood I had in my garage.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Looks like a fun project. What are you going to light this beast with?


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Next, I lined the sides and back of the vivarium with 1/4" concrete backer board, and the bottom of the vivarium with 1/2" concrete backer board.

I then drilled a 3" hole in the bottom of the vivarium to allow for the installation of a shower drain (to drain the tank).


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I then installed a bed of mortar in the base of the cabinet, this created a slope for the drain.

I then painted the mortar and the bottom 12" of the vivarium with Dry-Lok masonry waterproofing paint.

Then, I installed a shower pan liner into the bottom of the vivarium, as well as the front lower bulkhead (1"x8" Oak board, with 1/2" Concrete backer board on the inside).

I then coated the entire shower pan liner with a coat of mortar. I use a product called Versabond (available in the tile department at Home Depot). It has a wonderful polymer bonding agent, and won't crack when curing--even in a thick bed.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I then painted the entire interior of the vivarium with Dry-Lok. After the first coat, I decided that the stark white just wasn't going to cut it.

I went back to Home Depot, and had them tint the Dry-Lok green. I was trying to decide on a color, and since the light under deep canopy is usually just residual green wavelength not absorped by the plants--it seemed like the logical choice.

I had originally intended to construct an artificial, butressed-root tree on one side of the vivarium and a terrace moving to the left, away from the tree. Then, my wife found a couple of really nice pieces of driftwood for sale at the Tampa reptile show last fall. The "tree" on the right is a Cypress stump (with nice developing buttress roots). I spliced in some oak driftwood branches.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I used eggcrate to make a false bottom, leaving an area for exposed water around the base of the cypress stump.

I then covered the eggcrate with a geotext underlayment used for pond construction.

I then used my other piece of driftwood (a partial stump) at the top of the terrace to the top and left of the vivarium. I was overzealous one weekend, and created all of the false rock wall terrace without taking any photos. I used an open cell foam--gorilla glued together, and covered it with a product called Marbleflex (sold at Lowe's--its a cementitious mortar designed for marble/granite, and is very fine/smooth).

I painted the false rock with dry-lok (in white), then painted and clear-coated all of the rock work. The center section is a piece of real limestone that is hollowed out and plumbed as a low-volume waterfall.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I painted a rough background on the remaining exposed dry-lok. 

I then planted the majority of plants in the vivarium. I still need to install some more cork (this will look like more terraced ledges in areas of the vivarium. 

I'm still working out the final design on the doors (see my other thread/poll).


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Okay, I'll try and get some pics up this weekend of the lighting. I've had 3x 2-bulb T-8's--but had a problem with one fixture. 

The new set-up is two 2-bulb T-8's directly above the vivarium. One fixture is 6500k bulbs, the other is one 6500k UV 5.0 and one 10000k ocean bulb. I've replaced the third fixture (which mounts on the valance at the top front of the vivarium--not in the pictures) with a 2-bulb T-5 with 5000k bulbs.

The T-5's come on about 7every morning, and run until 8 at night. I have the pair of 6500k bulbs running from 8 to 7. The third fixture runs from 9 in the morning until 5 in the evening. This provides for a simulated sunrise/sunset. The timing is controlled by a single analog timer for one light, and the other two are controlled by a Zilla multi-timer.

I have two small vents plumbed through the back of the vivarium and are piped to an ultrasonic fogger. Once the vivarium doors are on, this will run every morning and every evening to create a fog bank in the vivarium.

I'm planning to install 6 mist-king nozzles, and using their new multi-timer, create a short misting cycle mid morning, and a significant rain event in the mid-afternoon.

I'm also going to install 4 80mm case fans in the top for circulation. The intake fans are going to attach to 3" aluminum ducts that run through the top of the vivarium and pull air other than from near the lighting.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

are you going to put critters in there or just plants?


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

This is going to be a home for PDF's. 

I'm planning on letting my Phyllobates vittatus have the run of the lower end, and also keep some imitators with all of the arboreal/upper tier areas in this tank.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Very cool! It took me back to when I installed the shower pan in my roman shower - what a giant pain! That will be really nice having a drain like that! So what are you doing for the viewing window? Glass? Plexi? What thickness are you going with?


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## froggysan (Sep 14, 2008)

Dear Mr. (Or perhaps Ms.) RarePlantBroker,

I'm not sure how I can fully express my overwhelming gratitude!

I am currently in the planning and research phase of building a setup almost exactly like yours -- in fact my planned tank dimensions were within a few inches of yours. When I began to realize that I was going to run into many issues -- especially regarding overall weight and sturdiness -- when using glass or acrylic as the primary structure, my mind began to boggle. Dealing with wood as the primary structure opened up dozens of concerns to address... and dozens of different possible solutions... all with dozens of possible difficulties when applying said solutions... See where I'm going with this?

Yes... That's right... Insane!


The meticulous planning put into your build is quite impressive. It almost feels as if you built this unit just for me. A little voice came to you one night and said 'Build it and he will be happy... He needs yooooOOOooOOOuuu. SaaaAAAaaave hiiimmmm...'


Now my build is actually going to house tree-frogs, not darts, so the interior layout will differ significantly... and I will also have to make a few adjustments to ventilation and temperature control to better suit tree-frogs... but for the most part... you've given me a full blueprint.




I do have a few quick questions for you.

What is this concrete backer board? And how is affixed to the plywood walls? And what is the advantage to using this as a water/moisture-proofing?

Is the mortar used before laying the shower pan liner and the mortar used post (on top of the liner) the same stuff?

Lastly, what are you using to plug or seal the drain when it's not in empty mode? And is it going to be connected to a tube? or just drained into a bucket?



Thanks again! You've saved me days -- if not weeks -- of pondering and research that would have eventually ended up with workable solution, which is gratifying and all, but it's nice sometimes for some to just give you the answer.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

froggysan said:


> I do have a few quick questions for you.
> 
> What is this concrete backer board? And how is affixed to the plywood walls? And what is the advantage to using this as a water/moisture-proofing?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliments. I spent several months on the planning, and discussion with my wife on building this. We were getting ready to re-decorate the foyer and living room (read new wallpaper and tile)--and I used this as a good excuse to build a BIG vivarium.

Concrete backer board: If you go into Home Depot/Lowe's--look in the area near the drywall. The backer board is a flat cementitious material with imbedded fiberglass mesh, and is used instead of drywall in shower surrounds or for an underlayment for tile floors when you have a wood subfloor. It is produced in 1/4" and 1/2" thicknesses--the first being suitable for walls, and the latter is used for floors where it will be weight bearing. Just read carefully when you go to purchase, as there is one variety that is manufactured with a mold inhibitor. I'm going to be at Lowe's later today, so I'll try and get you some brand names.

Attaching backer board: I forgot to mention that prior to installing the backer board I painted the back side with the Dry-Lok, just a precaution against "sweating" from the humidity of the vivarium. I then attached the backer board using stainless steel screws. Don't use anything else, as any moisture and the pH of the concrete can cause hardware failure. I then covered the screws with some hydraulic cement (to create a water tight seal).

Mortar bed: Yes, I used the same Versabond material above and below the shower pan liner. I found this stuff works really well in thick beds, and doesn't shrink/crack as many cheaper standard mortars tend to do.

The drain goes through the bottom of the vivarium and into the cabinet below, and is finished with a 1/4 turn drain cock (i.e.--hose bib). When I drain the water, I have a small hose that attaches to the drain and goes out the front door. This attaches to my garden hose to create an active siphon. I'll try and get some pictures of this later this weekend. 
Inside the vivarium, the drain itself is covered with the geotextile fabric and then some aquarium gravel.

Please feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

Alasdair


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

melas said:


> Very cool! It took me back to when I installed the shower pan in my roman shower - what a giant pain! That will be really nice having a drain like that! So what are you doing for the viewing window? Glass? Plexi? What thickness are you going with?


Still working on the front doors. I'm pretty set on 1/4" glass. Check out this thread: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/36196-need-help-advice-glass.html

Alasdair


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

looks very cool and you did a great job so far, but i feel like the actualy background needs something?? epiweb, treefern, cork bark, cork wood flats, wood bark rounds. . . something, i think it would give the tank alot more depth, but keep up the great work
-Troy


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## froggysan (Sep 14, 2008)

While laying in bed last night I did come up with a few other questions.


What would you say the overall weight of this thing is? And how heavy are the concrete backer boards roughly?

Other than the circulation of water from the water feature, are you doing any other water filtering? Where is the water feature pump being tucked away?

What are you planning on doing with the exterior? Paint? Stain?

How did you affix the shower pan sheeting to the backer board? And lastly... Why couldn't you have just laid down shower pan sheeting over the whole interior, sans concrete backer, and then mortared over the whole whole thing?



Okay... so maybe more than just a few...


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

RedEyeTroyFrog said:


> looks very cool and you did a great job so far, but i feel like the actualy background needs something?? epiweb, treefern, cork bark, cork wood flats, wood bark rounds. . . something, i think it would give the tank alot more depth, but keep up the great work
> -Troy


I decided to stay away from the solid bark/epiweb/treefern background, as I feel it makes the vivarium look like everything is growing in a hole (not trying to insult anyone, just my opinion). This is why I rough painted a pseudo-mural on parts of the background. I still have to install some more cork bark on a few spots in the background. The vast majority of the "open" parts of the background will be left that way, but a number of the plants that are waiting to go into this vivarium (aren't in yet, as they can't tolerate the current lack of high humidity) will climb on their own. These will give the illusion that they are climbing the painted "trees" in the background.

It's hard to explain the exact look now, but I should have this project finished in the next month--so you'll be able to see the full vision of my creative insanity!


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

ok ok i got you sounds like a cool idea, stoked to see it when its finished


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

froggysan said:


> While laying in bed last night I did come up with a few other questions.
> 
> 
> What would you say the overall weight of this thing is? And how heavy are the concrete backer boards roughly?
> ...



Well, as for the weight of the structure, the concrete backer board used weighs about 250#, I used 75# of Versabond mortar (dry weight), 10# of the Marbleflex mortar (false rock), the driftwood pieces weigh about 20#, and there is about 12 gallons of water in the false bottom (approx. 100#), and 10# of aquarium gravel. So, altogether I'd say the weight load with soil is around 600#. The weight of the doors and mechanicals is transfered through the vertical sides of the cabinet, and not on the base directly. The base framing is 2"x4" on about 12" spacing.

The circulation pump for the water feature is a statuary pump (I can't remember the brand, it's one I bought from a pond supply company I work with in my business). The pump is hidden directly under the stream, and inside a basket lined with a bio-filter mesh (like the stuff used for koi ponds--it was left over from cutting my last pond filters). The plumbing is 1/2" SCH40 PVC from about 3" from the pump to the "waterfall". The access is hiden under a plastic cover in the stream. I used a piece of PVC sheeting, cut to fit, and put a light layer of silicone to secure it in place, and camoflauged the edges with a few pieces of natural rock. It has been my experience that this pump only needs to be cleaned/serviced every year or so.

The outside exterior of the cabinet will be stained to match the moulding in my house (dark walnut), and coated with a water-based polyurythane sealer.

I used the backer board because it added rigidity to the cabinet, and I didn't have to seam together a piece of liner. (it took most of a standard size shower liner to take care of the bottom of the vivarium). If you use this, I suggest letting it sit in the sun and air out for a couple of days after a thorough cleaning. The chemical residue from the manufacturing is pretty heavy (another good reason for coating it with mortar and waterproofing sealant). And the shelves I'm installing on either side of the vivarium hold a number of volumes of my rare 1st edition books, so the possibility of bowing and/or leaking has to be zero. And, I only had to mortar the seams of the backer board--and I'm not a professional "stucco/plaster" man--and it doesn't go on really smooth.

Alasdair


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## Fishman (Jan 16, 2007)

This is a sweet large viv! Do you have to treat the mortar bed and background with any type of vinegar (acid) wash to lower the pH in the viv? Any new photos?


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## LittleDip (May 20, 2007)

Amazing custom viv. Thank you for sharing..Please keep us updated with pictures and your progress.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

looks great!! nice job.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Fishman said:


> This is a sweet large viv! Do you have to treat the mortar bed and background with any type of vinegar (acid) wash to lower the pH in the viv? Any new photos?


I didn't need to treat the mortar bed, as it is all sealed with Drylock masonry waterproofer (water-based formula).

I did run quite a few water changes after I finished painting and sealing the fake rock. I didn't check the water pH at the onset, but after a series of 4 water changes and the addition of some mopani wood, the water is showing up as 6.9.

I really need to download and post some more pics. I've taken some pictures of my lighting setup, added the last of the cork bark, and installed the frame for the top of the vivarium. I'll try and get that done in the next couple of days. As I'm writing this, I'm running out and checking heaters in the garden, nursery, and greenhouse. We are forecast to receive the first hard freeze here in the last 20 years--and I'm determined to beat mother nature!


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## bmasar (Dec 13, 2007)

Do you have any PDFs or are these your first?

Since no one else said it yet, I'll go ahead and do it: it's not a good idea to mix frog species in general, and since these may be your first, it's an even poorer idea. Also thumbs as your first frogs is not a great thought either.


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## almazan (Jun 6, 2004)

It looks awesome, Im really digging the size of the tank. Makes me miss my 150gal show tank.
Charles


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

Pictures please! This is awesome!


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

bmasar said:


> Do you have any PDFs or are these your first?
> 
> Since no one else said it yet, I'll go ahead and do it: it's not a good idea to mix frog species in general, and since these may be your first, it's an even poorer idea. Also thumbs as your first frogs is not a great thought either.


I have quite a few PDF's already--definitely not my first.

This enclosure is very specifically designed. There are actually three distinct levels in the enclosure. It has been my experience that P. vittatus don't venture far from the floor of the vivarium (although I do have one that likes to climb after an escapee fruit fly). The upper reaches of the vivarium are for a more arboreal species--thus each species has their own niche--and they aren't capable of cross breeding.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Okay, I promised some more pics, and here's the next installment.

These are of the lighting transition. I've done a little bulb changing to get the right light intensity and "color". 

The first picture is of the T-5 fixture. I found that the 3700k bulbs have a color much like sunrise/sunset, and so these come on first and stay on until sunset.

The next picture is with the T-5's and One of the T-8 fixtures. This one has one 5500k and one 6700k bulb. This color combination when combined with the T-5's looks much like mid morning to mid afternoon light.

The final picture is my "mid-day" lighting. This picture I have both the above fixtures on and the final set of T-8's which is one 6700k UVB 2.0, and one 18000k bulb (the long wave length light penetrates the height of the vivarium beautifully.

I shot all of these without any other light source, and no flash. Some of the orchids in the bottom right corner are some "houseplants" that have been enjoying the extra light!


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I've installed the aluminum frame to hold the top of the vivarium, and have cut the current top (1/4" acrylic). I decided to use this for the time being, as I may need to change the exact placement of ventilation fans and misting heads. I did laminate reinforcement strips at the edges and diagonally across the piece to prevent as much warping as possible.

I'll try to take and post some more pics of the top and of the new cork bark areas over the next few days. 

In the meanwhile, I also have all of these goodies from little frog farms to put in my vivarium:


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Very cool! Thanks for the update!


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## Ontariofrogger1973 (Oct 18, 2008)

wow awsome enclosure!


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

Awesome viv! i look forward to seeing this one all grown in in a few months!


is that an A. warocqueanum i see in the bottom right corner? if so wont it eventually get to big? i personally love that plant but am dreading the day mine gets to big for a viv as i live in colorado where a greenhouse just wont work.... at least to the best of my knowlege...


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Link3898 said:


> Awesome viv! i look forward to seeing this one all grown in in a few months!
> 
> 
> is that an A. warocqueanum i see in the bottom right corner? if so wont it eventually get to big? i personally love that plant but am dreading the day mine gets to big for a viv as i live in colorado where a greenhouse just wont work.... at least to the best of my knowlege...



There is an Anthurium warocqueanum in the bottom right, but I'm not certain if you can see it. (the leaves are only about 4" long--it's a division from one of my big plants). The large leaf at the bottom right is Philodendron melanochrysum. The leaves of this one will eventually get about 18" long, but I'm sure I'll cut and divide it long before it gets that big (it grows slowly outside, but it's a weed in the vivarium--the leaves now are 12" and a top cutting from outside my front door).

A. warocqueanum is actually a pretty easy keeper. My biggest one has leaves about 16" in length (it is growing outside), but has taken over 5 years to get that size from a 6" tall plant. They are alright with still air, but need good humidity to keep the leaves nice. I've grown them as houseplants here with limited success--but our indoor humidity is about 60% during the "dry" season.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

RarePlantBroker said:


> I painted a rough background on the remaining exposed dry-lok.
> 
> I then planted the majority of plants in the vivarium. I still need to install some more cork (this will look like more terraced ledges in areas of the vivarium.
> 
> I'm still working out the final design on the doors (see my other thread/poll).




Yeah i was actually looking at this post where you can see the Anthurium warocqueanum down at the bottom right corner.. but it was the Philodendron melanochrysum that tipped me into looking for the warocqueanum and then i noticed it right there 


thats good to hear they grow slow... maybe i still have a few years before i need to figgure out something... since 60% humidity is our "soaking wet" season LOL


Edit: for some reason the picture didnt load...
Edit Edit: lol the picture was the one with the first large bunch of plants. the 7th post in this thread


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

UPDATE!!!!

Well, back in Feb., I started running my water feature for a full test, and ordered my glass door hardware.... While waiting for my backordered door hinges--DISASTER! My vivarium started leaking from an unknown place. Well, I began searching for the source of the leak. I first thought that the water feature was overflowing the stream and leaking between the liner and the front lower metal frame. This wasn't the source, but I found that the water was coming from around the shower drain in the bottom of the vivarium. After further deconstruction, I found that the silicone I had used (GE I) DID adhere to the PVC drain, but DID NOT adhere to the shower liner. After a few tests, I found that GE Silicone for glass and acrylic would adhere to both materials, so I re-installed the drain and allowed the silicone to cure and off-gas for a month. I then re-mortared the area surrounding the drain and applied dry-lok. I then re-built the water feature, and tested for two weeks. This time everything worked.
So, I ordered my glass for the doors, and started working on installing the misting system. 
I've gotten all of the programming set for the mist timing, fog timing, air circulation, and lighting. 
I picked up a few new interesting plants at the Redlands Orchid Festival in May, and installed them. I allowed the plants some time to establish themselves, and for the adhesive(s) used to cure.
Last weekend I introduced the new inhabitants: a trio of Leuc.'s (1.2).

Without further ado, here are a couple of pics (sorry there aren't more now, but I will get some more this weekend--including the "moonlight" effect and the fog):


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Oops: I just noticed that the nice "overall" pic still has my remote weather sensor in the tank. I've been fanatical about taking readings for several days in different locales in this large a vivarium prior to adding occupants.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Wow 


V'ey nize!

One husbandry tool recomendation....especially for us Floridians...

Temp gun.

With a Viv that big, I'd spring for mid price range gun ($50 or so) and take readings from high and low.

See ya in Daytona!

Phil


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> Wow
> 
> 
> V'ey nize!
> ...


I actually have a temp gun (it's actually what made me change the arrangement of my vent fans). Unfortunately, the temp gun doesn't allow me to have min/max readings over 24 hour period (weather station transmits to base station--and can be stored on my computer). The highest reading I have found in the tank is atop the tree on the right, at 81.5 (weather station) or 83 (temp gun), while the house temp was 80F. Along the tree branch I'm averaging 79F during high intensity lighting (mid-day with a house temp of 78F). The temps at the bottom of the vivarium actually stay around 2-3 degrees cooler than my house due to the evaporative cooling from the water feature. (I actually adjust the house temp--more for the frogs than anything else--during summer we run 78 daytime and 74 at night). I've actually had temps in the vivarium hit 69.7F after a fogging cycle!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Alasdair,

The huge viv screams for one more thing....

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...eally-easy-ultrasonic-humidifier-journal.html

I use 4 of them....they are sturdy, cheap - ebay ($20 some) and very effective.

A real show stopper when on a timer.

One would be all you would need actually.

Lookin' good!


ok...just read you had a fogger.....as well as a temp gun....

I'm just gonna crawl back under my rock now.....


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

that looks great, how much did the hinges run?


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> Alasdair,
> 
> The huge viv screams for one more thing....
> 
> ...


No Problem Phil, it is after midnight, LOL!

I have one of the Vick's cool mist. I run it in the morning for 1 hour prior to lights on, and let the fog "burn-off" with the arrival of daylight; and I run it again about 10:30 at night for an hour to drop the temp. overnight and keep the humidity up after the fans/misting system turns off.
The humidifier actually fills the tank entirely in about 10 minutes--I love the effect--so do my orchids....


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

bussardnr said:


> that looks great, how much did the hinges run?


I set up an account with CR Laurence with my business, and purchased them directly. I spent around $40/pair for the hinges (2 pair). The glass was expensive though...1/4", tempered, beveled and polished edges, drilled for handles and hinges--$300+


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## moore40 (Jan 29, 2008)

Updates pleeeeeaaaase!!!


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