# Giant Salamanders



## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

Just had to post this

Animals: Japanese Giant Salamander : Video : Discovery News


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Gummi-saurus Rex!!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Awesome.....imagine snorkeling and looking for them.


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

DC Zoo actually has a great exhibit featuring these. Well worth the visit for anyone in the Mid-atlantic area.


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Has anyone ever had these as a pet? Is it even possible to own them?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pygmypiranha said:


> Has anyone ever had these as a pet? Is it even possible to own them?


The Japanese species is considered a National Treasure and is very unlikely to ever show up in the pet trade in the US due to the status this provides.
Both the Chinese and the Japanese species are also listed as CITES appendix 1 which makes it very difficult to obtain permits for thier use in the pet trade.... 

Ed


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Besides, it would need waaay to big of a tank that the vast majority will not be able to provide...


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

I saw one for sale a while back on a european forum. As far as legality, who knows. My guess is probably not. I would imagine it would make for one boring pet. They kind of just sit there until food comes along if I'm not mistaken.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

They look like they would eat you if they ever got out... just sayin.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

fleshfrombone said:


> I saw one for sale a while back on a european forum. As far as legality, who knows. My guess is probably not. I would imagine it would make for one boring pet. They kind of just sit there until food comes along if I'm not mistaken.


This isn't surprising as there have been Andrias in the EU community for many decades (as they live for more than 60-70 years) as well as registering the first captive reproduction for Andrias.. (If I remember correctly it was the Amsterdam Zoo around the turn of the century..) 

Ed


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Ed said:


> This isn't surprising as there have been Andrias in the EU community for many decades (as they live for more than 60-70 years) as well as registering the first captive reproduction for Andrias.. (If I remember correctly it was the Amsterdam Zoo around the turn of the century..)
> 
> Ed


I should have made it more clear what I was trying to say. Just because it's offered doesn't mean it's ok or legal for that matter. But yeah that's a great insight Ed! I don't remember exactly how expensive the sallie was but it was something to the tune of 5k euro...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

This is one of the animals that has been around over there for a long time.. you are correct that it could be an animal that was later smuggled into the region but it is also possible to be a holdout from before there were any regulations on wildlife trading... 

Ed


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

I guess with that kind of life span you could very well be right. Are there any records regarding their captivity before international regulations were put in place?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I love these guys...if they weren't endangered and I actually thought I could care for one well I'd be all over them as pets. 

Just wish the Japanese would take such a view of whales and dolphins...To be fair, maybe some are now. I don't know...haven't looked into it yet.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

The Japanese usually hunt in a small area afaik, and the whales they hunt there have a much wider range...


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Wallace Grover said:


> The Japanese usually hunt in a small area afaik, and the whales they hunt there have a much wider range...


Ya I'm not as educated about it all yet as I probably should be and plan to be once I get around to it  Basically all I know is at this point some of their whaling practices are pissing off a large portion of the world and I'm not sure but I think some of them are in voilation of international treaties? ...or at least using dubious methods to skirt such treaties?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendro Dave said:


> Ya I'm not as educated about it all yet as I probably should be and plan to be once I get around to it  Basically all I know is at this point some of their whaling practices are pissing off a large portion of the world and I'm not sure but I think some of them are in voilation of international treaties? ...or at least using dubious methods to skirt such treaties?


This is very OT from Andrias... but to clear up a couple of points... 
Membership and compliance with the IWC (International Whaling Commission) is voluntary and there are no provisions for enforcement of its regulations. Japan is not the only country conducting whaling. For example, Norway is another country actively engaged in commercial whaling. 
The Japanese are probably totally within thier rights under the regulations if I remember correctly as the regulations under scientific whaling require that whale meat aquired through scientific whaling should not be allowed to go to waste. Now what that actually means is up to interpretation and other interpretations cannot be enforced under the IWC. 

It may be better to move this discussion to a seperate thread... 

Some comments,

Ed


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ed said:


> This is very OT from Andrias... but to clear up a couple of points...
> Membership and compliance with the IWC (International Whaling Commission) is voluntary and there are no provisions for enforcement of its regulations. Japan is not the only country conducting whaling. For example, Norway is another country actively engaged in commercial whaling.
> The Japanese are probably totally within thier rights under the regulations if I remember correctly as the regulations under scientific whaling require that whale meat aquired through scientific whaling should not be allowed to go to waste. Now what that actually means is up to interpretation and other interpretations cannot be enforced under the IWC.
> 
> ...


Thanks Ed for the clarification and sorry everyone for getting a lil to off topic there


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendro Dave said:


> I love these guys...if they weren't endangered and I actually thought I could care for one well I'd be all over them as pets.
> .


If you can keep them cold and well filtered they are very easy to take care of.. I've worked with them and a 25 lb Andrias has no problems eating a thawed frozen rat.... And they can be very scary as they can be very aggressive when disturbed or feeding... After I saw one tear a large rat in half when feeding it, I was very concerned about ever being bitten by one.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Ed said:


> If you can keep them cold and well filtered they are very easy to take care of.. I've worked with them and a 25 lb Andrias has no problems eating a thawed frozen rat.... And they can be very scary as they can be very aggressive when disturbed or feeding... After I saw one tear a large rat in half when feeding it, I was very concerned about ever being bitten by one.


Whoa now! They rip rats apart? I assumed they gummed things to death. Thanks for sharing, I'll refrain from poking one.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ed said:


> If you can keep them cold and well filtered they are very easy to take care of.. I've worked with them and a 25 lb Andrias has no problems eating a thawed frozen rat.... And they can be very scary as they can be very aggressive when disturbed or feeding... After I saw one tear a large rat in half when feeding it, I was very concerned about ever being bitten by one.


Hmm I have the door to Echo's room cut off at the top so you can look in...maybe I'll move her and the ferret cages to the other room...put a water tight seal on the window and door and fill the room with water and get me a giant salamander  Ya I think beyond just legally being able to get one space and keeping that high a volume of water cold would be my biggest obstacles...that and if the owner of my trailer park ever found out I had a 5ft sally swimming in my spare bed room.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

fleshfrombone said:


> Whoa now! They rip rats apart? I assumed they gummed things to death. Thanks for sharing, I'll refrain from poking one.


I tried to find a picture of the pattern of thier tooth distribution but couldn't find one that I would be able to post. They have a lot of teeth and powerful jaws. Basically they feed on anything they can capture and subdue.. which in the wild does include wild rodents.. crabs and fish.. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendro Dave said:


> Hmm I have the door to Echo's room cut off at the top so you can look in...maybe I'll move her and the ferret cages to the other room...put a water tight seal on the window and door and fill the room with water and get me a giant salamander  Ya I think beyond just legally being able to get one space and keeping that high a volume of water cold would be my biggest obstacles...that and if the owner of my trailer park ever found out I had a 5ft sally swimming in my spare bed room.


It takes a long time to get them that big. Growth begins to slow substantially after about three feet in length. A Andrias of that size can be easily kept in a six foot non-metallic cattle trough.. Just cut a side out of it and replace it with a see through panel (double paned to reduce exterior condensation..) add a good sized chiller and filter. 

Ed


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Dang the more I read about them the more I want one...


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

pygmypiranha said:


> Dang the more I read about them the more I want one...


You do realize we have our own Giant salamander in the US. The Hellbender has all the same traits and requirements of a Japanese or Chinese Giant but at a much more manegable size. Big enough to be very impressive, not so big as to be overwhelming and because of water polution nearly as threatened as the two species mentioned above.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mantisdragon91 said:


> You do realize we have our own Giant salamander in the US. The Hellbender has all the same traits and requirements of a Japanese or Chinese Giant but at a much more manegable size. Big enough to be very impressive, not so big as to be overwhelming and because of water polution nearly as threatened as the two species mentioned above.


And protected in every state in which it occurs... While it is a form of water pollution, it isn't the one that comes to people's mind but the major problems for a lot of thier habitat is siltation from development and/or farming practices as well as water warming from removal of trees that shade the streams keeping them cool (these problems also affect true native trout..). The siltation smothers the eggs and prevents the larva and adults from being able to get down under the rocks as a shelter. 

Ed


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## Zombie Frawg (Aug 31, 2010)

Ed said:


> It takes a long time to get them that big. Growth begins to slow substantially after about three feet in length. A Andrias of that size can be easily kept in a six foot non-metallic cattle trough.. Just cut a side out of it and replace it with a see through panel (double paned to reduce exterior condensation..) add a good sized chiller and filter.
> 
> Ed


Now, that is tempting.....Good thing I don't have the room or you'd be getting me in trouble....Again


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

Ed said:


> And protected in every state in which it occurs... While it is a form of water pollution, it isn't the one that comes to people's mind but the major problems for a lot of thier habitat is siltation from development and/or farming practices as well as water warming from removal of trees that shade the streams keeping them cool (these problems also affect true native trout..). The siltation smothers the eggs and prevents the larva and adults from being able to get down under the rocks as a shelter.
> 
> Ed


All the more reason to establish breeding poulations in captivity. With proper permits of course.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

IMO animals as large as this should be left up to the flithy rich (or hobbyist who are willing to dump a ton of money into them), or zoos. I think most of us would stick with newts or salamnders for now


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mantisdragon91 said:


> All the more reason to establish breeding poulations in captivity. With proper permits of course.


There are less than a handful of captive breedings in hellbenders and to date all of them have resulted in infertile clutches as the males have do not fertilize the clutches. Some of the more consistent sucesses are coming out of some work done with a raceway on loan from a USF&W trout hatchery. This allows control of temperature and water flow which seems to be important. The have been a number of attempts at artifical propegations including hormonal stimulations that have to date been unsuccessful... for some reasons, most attempts using indoor raceways have not succeded and there are a lot of theories including an inability to remove the pheremones from the water (this is not a problem in a river as they are not only diluted but washed downstream..)... 
At this time what may be a better method is to collect fertile eggs that have been washed out of the nests and head start them for release... A good method for doing this was the result of a graduate thesis from the University of Missouri.... 

Ed


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