# Dart Frogs I never knew Existed... Did you?



## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

Any way a few weeks ago I stumbled across this german website with all these great pictures of every dart I ever heard of and a few I didn't.

www.dendrobatenwelt.de

Some of the more interesting ones I thought were...

Ranitomeya dorisswainsonae

Ranitomeya virolinensis

Oophaga speciosa

Oophaga speciosa

Adelphobates Spec. Brazil

And may others as well

So I was wondering if anyone has ever heard of any these species or seen this website before.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Yes...some of them are mentioned in the Lotters (et al.) book as well as www.dendrobase.de


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

While I have heard of all of these species (via Dendrobase) I have never seen such a collection of photographs! Excellent find .

*EDIT* Upon closer inspection... there are a lot of photos on that site by DB members! This is also the first time that I'm actually contemplating getting some auratus in the future... There's one on that site that looks remarkably close to a mysteriosus, a morph that's black and white, and a morph that's solid lime green! Not that any of those are easy to come by or within my price range . Again, really nice find. I'm adding it to my bookmarks. Thanks Alex!


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

skylsdale said:


> Yes...some of them are mentioned in the Lotters (et al.) book as well as www.dendrobase.de


I never thought about checking dendrobase, thx. I never heard of "lotters" is that the name of the book or the author? 




Marinarawr said:


> While I have heard of all of these species (via Dendrobase) I have never seen such a collection of photographs! Excellent find .


Thanks I thought so too


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

AlexRible said:


> I never heard of "lotters" is that the name of the book or the author?


Poison Frogs: Species and Captive Husbandry by Stefan Lotters, Karl-Heinz Jungfer, and Wolfgang Schmidt. If you own dart frogs, I would highly recommend owning this book.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

skylsdale said:


> Poison Frogs: Species and Captive Husbandry by Stefan Lotters, Karl-Heinz Jungfer, and Wolfgang Schmidt. If you own dart frogs, I would highly recommend owning this book.


Ohh I do know that book, I just couldn't place the name to the pictures in my head. I have been thinking about picking up a copy, but it will have to wait till next pay check


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

mmmmmmmm gold auratus


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## Estrato (Jan 6, 2009)

Heh, check out the pic of the o. lahmasi getting agressive with the terribilis.


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## elblando (Dec 8, 2008)

This site has a astounding database for lesser known frogs as well as a calls for most of them and info about origin and conservation. Dendrobates.org - Home


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Wow - here's a stunner:
Ranitomeya spec. - Ecuador

No id though.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Does anyone here keep this Golden Auratus? I am generally not attracted to Auratus, but this morph is STUNNING!


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Currently the only source for it in the US is through Sean Stewart. Whether or not it's an actual morph in the wild is the subject of much debate in the European hobby.


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

Woodsman said:


> Does anyone here keep this Golden Auratus? I am generally not attracted to Auratus, but this morph is STUNNING!


I know what you mean.... Even though auratus have some amazing metallic coloration, I just never found them as enamoring as most other darts. There are a couple of morphs on that page though that really make my jaw drop. 

On a different note... I think that it's interesting that they've placed photos of misshapen and deformed froglets on the site. Not that these things don't occurr.... I just don't know how it's relevant.


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## Estrato (Jan 6, 2009)

Woah, check out these histrionica. Nature really is somethin.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

There is a member of this forum that actually lived in Colombia and wrote an article on Virolinensis, I will ask if he will share it with us.


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

afterdark said:


> Wow - here's a stunner:
> Ranitomeya spec. - Ecuador
> 
> No id though.


It is thought to be closely related to E. captivus. It has yet to be described...


André Schreiber has a second website btw, which is lesser known then the one mentioned in this topic: www.naturalpictures.org


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Actually I am fairly confident that frog is E. captivus. Juan Carlos Santos just came out with a paper and in his phylogeny was this Ecuadorian frog. It is very closely related to captivus, so much so that it probably just represent a northern population of this species.


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

Interesting! So I guess I was spreading old info 

I have been waiting for the publication by Juan Carlos Santos. Is it available on the internet somewhere?

Remco


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

Whoa! I was just browsing and saw this frog:
http://dendrobatenwelt.mschlenzig.de/Bilder/2124.jpg

I've never seen a tinc like that before.


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Shockfrog said:


> Interesting! So I guess I was spreading old info
> 
> I have been waiting for the publication by Juan Carlos Santos. Is it available on the internet somewhere?
> 
> Remco


Indeed, you can find it here: PLoS Biology: Amazonian Amphibian Diversity Is Primarily Derived from Late Miocene Andean Lineages

A lot of the stuff is found also in the supplementary materials.


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

Thanks alot!


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Marinarawr said:


> Whoa! I was just browsing and saw this frog:
> http://dendrobatenwelt.mschlenzig.de/Bilder/2124.jpg
> 
> I've never seen a tinc like that before.


I'm pretty sure thats a terribilis - picture was probably taken with a flash.


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## irish (Apr 7, 2008)

Great site. How would someone go about obtaining some of the harder to get morphs of dendrobates auratus that were listed there? I have never seen so many and in so many diffferent morphs.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

move to the EU!!


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

zBrinks said:


> I'm pretty sure thats a terribilis - picture was probably taken with a flash.


At first I 5thought the same thing but on closer inspection I am pretty sure that is a Galac, the solid orange morph comes in many shades, the smooth legs and the frog in the background looks more like a Galac than a Terribilis.


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

(Maybe this should be split from the subject??)

So uhm, about that Santos et al. paper, why was there so much fuzz about Grant et al. in 2006 and I hear nothing about this paper. Many people where very eager to use Grant's taxonomy, but I'm really not seeing this now. No discussions, noone using it, no updated websites...


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## Estrato (Jan 6, 2009)

frogparty said:


> move to the EU!!


How is it that there are so many more varieties over there?


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

Shockfrog said:


> (Maybe this should be split from the subject??)
> 
> So uhm, about that Santos et al. paper, why was there so much fuzz about Grant et al. in 2006 and I hear nothing about this paper. Many people where very eager to use Grant's taxonomy, but I'm really not seeing this now. No discussions, noone using it, no updated websites...


Remco - I'm not sure I exactly understand what you are asking, but I thought the Santos paper made a pretty weak stab at the fighting the Grant taxonomy (granted, this was not a major focus of their paper). But the small section in the supplementary materials where they criticize Grant is not particularly convincing to me. The argument they make against the new taxonomy is completely subjective, considering that all the genera remain monophyletic even in their analysis. 

Maybe if we discuss this point further, it would indeed be best to split these posts from this thread.


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## jmoose (Jun 21, 2006)

I remember this pic popped up everywhere on this site no so long time ago ...

mongabay.com


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

Ric Sanchez said:


> Remco - I'm not sure I exactly understand what you are asking, but I thought the Santos paper made a pretty weak stab at the fighting the Grant taxonomy (granted, this was not a major focus of their paper). But the small section in the supplementary materials where they criticize Grant is not particularly convincing to me. The argument they make against the new taxonomy is completely subjective, considering that all the genera remain monophyletic even in their analysis.
> 
> Maybe if we discuss this point further, it would indeed be best to split these posts from this thread.


Ok, my English is not that good, but your answer is the one I wanted 

Yes, it's obviously not the main focus of Santos's paper. But Grant's paper has been discussed alot and I haven't seen such discussions about Santos's paper. I wondered if noone noticed the paper, or if it just wasn't worth mentioning...


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

Estrato said:


> How is it that there are so many more varieties over there?


You should know that many pics on the website where not shot in captivity. Sure there is a difference in morphs and species that we keep, but I think the difference is not at all that big.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

the difference is that EU seems to be more flexible with issuing CITES papers that the US. many frogs in EU were NEVER legally collected and yet there are CITES papers that say they are legal. there are entire populations that have arisen from smuggled stock in EU. recently there have been captivus in Germany, however Peru has NEVER allowed these animals to be taken. one must assume that these are ALL illegally collected and smuggled animals. others include many Oophaga species, etc, etc.

we may not get all that they do in EU but we can have a little pride in the fact that the majority (this is speculation because of the confusion of imported tincs from Brazil, which now make up a large portion of the hobby world wide) of frogs in the US are from legal collections.

james


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## chivers (Jun 8, 2009)

Great website!!!


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## kingnicky101 (Feb 20, 2009)

jmoose said:


> I remember this pic popped up everywhere on this site no so long time ago ...
> 
> mongabay.com


What dart is that? looks like a cross between aan azureus and yellow terribilis.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Excidobates Captivus...

Gorgeous.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i dont think any of us will see captivus soon..... unless you want to buy smuggled stock that turned up in Germany. i wont support that sort of behavior especially with a species that is under such great threat. they are gorgeous though.

james

i stole the pic from jangala magizine (whatever that is)


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

james67 said:


> i dont think any of us will see captivus soon..... unless you want to buy smuggled stock that turned up in Germany. i wont support that sort of behavior especially with a species that is under such great threat. they are gorgeous though.
> 
> james
> 
> i stole the pic from jangala magizine (whatever that is)


So, no one is allowed to collect them right now? It's really a shame that smuggling has hurt endangered species so much. 
I would think they might give permissions to environmental groups to collect many species, even if they're not available to regular joes. They really need to be protected by an organized breeding program.


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