# My first clay backgrounds



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't do anything one at a time! So here are my first 3 clay backgrounds. Let's start with our custom made Vivs. We completely fabricated these from the ground up from factory reject windows!


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here is Viv number 1 completed and planted. By the way, size on these are 11 3/4 side to side, 24" tall, 24" front to back. All set up for thumbnails.
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here is viv number 2. This was done by my son, Frogboy! His first Viv flying solo!
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Number 3 I decided to get a bit more imaginative! Kind of went nuts with a sort of vine system! Here are pics before planting.
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

And here we are fully planted. Can't wait to see what it looks like when all those different vines grow in!
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

The substrate is sort of an experimental mix. First we put down about 1 to 1.5 inches of Turface. Then we put in a mix a coconut husks and charcoal chunks. We sprinkled this with about 1/8 cup of Calcium Carbonate, mixed it in and sprayed it down. Now wherever we put a plant in, we hollow out a spot and put in one or two handfuls of ABG mix. This is the cool part. We set up the ABG mix in a huge tray about 6 weeks ago, moistened it and fed it rice, mushrooms, and fish flake. Seeded it heavily with about 6 or 7 different types of springtails. Now it is crawling with springs so we already have a nice backbone of springs in the vivs! Sooo, time to release some frogs! Here is a pair of my Varaderos checking it out! They've only been in here like 5 minutes and the male is calling already! Right here the female is peeking out and deciding it might be ok to come out.
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Two action shots here as I caught her mid-jump!
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Together at last! I love the last shot where she turns and stares me down! "Scuze me...a little privacy please!"
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Now she's following him all over the Viv. My man knows how to keep his woman in line!: Just Kidding! lol:
Doug


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Great work guys! Love those tanks.


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

great looking vivs, nice background work and great use of recylcled materials!!


----------



## sktdvs (Nov 1, 2010)

Man im jealous..those tanks are GORGEOUS! Great job!


----------



## oneshot (Mar 5, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> And here we are fully planted.  Can't wait to see what it looks like when all those different vines grow in!
> Doug


Number 3 is I think my favorite tank ever! Good thing I'm starting a new tank tonight! I know what it's going to look like.

Any chance you could let us know what plants are in there?

LOVE IT!


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

oneshot said:


> Number 3 is I think my favorite tank ever! Good thing I'm starting a new tank tonight! I know what it's going to look like.
> 
> Any chance you could let us know what plants are in there?
> 
> LOVE IT!


Thanks for the kudos, everybody! Appreciate it. 

Oneshot, I wish I could but while I love getting a large variety of plants, I'm afraid I'm not much for plant ID. Basically, I purchase what I know works in Vivs, and I try to beg, borrow, trade, for plants I see in others vivs. Whenever I am in a greenhouse, I tell them what I am doing and ask for their recommendations on what to try. Sometimes they work out great, and other times, not so much. I'll try to ID a few for you but some of my names will just be "slang" or a nickname so to speak. These are all from tank 3. In pic 2 on the cork bark ledges is an assortment of mini orchids. In pic 3, in the far back left corner is a freaky tall growing plant. It's actually Ginger! To the right, the big oval leaves with the radiating pink/red thin stripes is Prayer Plant or Calathea. That's one of my "go to" plants as I love it and my thumbs love to lay eggs on it. The vines with the tiny round kind of thick leaves is Pepperomia Prostrata. I got a huge pot of it for 99 cents as it had root rot! Made a bunch of cuttings and it's doing fine! Two or three different kinds of dischidia vines. A bromeliad that is too narrow leafed for egg laying as I don't want any mystery tad deposits to turn off breeding. Still in pic 3 on the bottom left is another orchid I was given. My orchid loving friend knows what it is but I forgot already. Some creeping Oak Leaf Fig is visible in pic 3 and 4. Pic 4 bottom right is a Pothos with metallic silver spots. Slow growing but cool. To the left of that is a Lemon Button Fern (another fave). Further left, the wrinkly leaf is some sort of Pilea? First time trying it. Far right bottom corner...No Idea but man do I love it! Hey! Not too bad. Got at least a rough id on most of it! Oh yeah, and then three or four different mosses about. The yellow looking sphag WAS live green sphag but it did NOT like the bleach treatment! Hoping it will come back. Then there is a little branch of ghost wood on the right. I have another box of ghost wood coming in and I may put another piece in. 

Glad you like it but here is perhaps my favorite Viv that I've done. It is for my Cayo Nancys. It is another of my slope fronts but it is twice the size at 24" x 24" x 24". Made it bigger to raise up those Pum babies!


----------



## oneshot (Mar 5, 2010)

I love that one too! You should give a class...


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks!
Doug


----------



## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

They look great.. I think I like your son's viv the best


----------



## jlb (Oct 15, 2006)

Excellent work!!! I really like the design of the tanks. I look forward to seeing future pics of the growth of these tanks. Once again, GREAT JOB!


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

And if you were paying attention...there was still one empty viv. Here it is "muded". (as in, "lets go mud the tank!) Now on this one I decided to incorporate the cork bark scraps from the Pumilio tank. Most of these were scraps about an inch wide by two or more inches long. They were pieces we couldn't bring ourselves to throw away even though they seemed to small to do anything with. That kind of became the focus here and actual sculpting took a back seat. Maybe not a truly natural scene but we built this one for the frogs and they are going to LOVE climbing the ledges!


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here is a little more info on our "experimental" substrate. It is a mix of charcoal chunks, coconut husk chunks, and fine orchid bark. In picture number two you can see the calcium carbonate we spike it with. This is so our frogs can pick up some extra calcium while grazing on microfauna. This will come in really handy should we decide to let any froglets morph out in the viv. In pic 3 we sprinkle it in and in pic 4 we mix it in. Then we mist the tank heavily and begin planting. Wherever we put a plant we put in a handful of ABG mix. The ABG mix has been seeded out for about 6 weeks with about 6 different varieties of springtails. They plan here is that the "chunky" substrate will grow a lot of calcium rich springtails and isopods.
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

And here it is fully scaped!


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here I'm releasing the Understory Iquitos Vents into their new home. Four went in.
Doug


----------



## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

I may have missed it, but what did you use exactly to make the backgrounds?

Thanks

ed parker


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I used powdered bentonite from a pottery store. Mix 1 part powdered bentonite with 1 part coconut fiber (looks like dirt), 1 part peat, and aobut 2/3 part pulverized sphagnum (ground in a blender). Mix it dry with a drill and then mix with water. Let stand for an hour so the organics will suck up the moisture or the consistancy will change while you are working.
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

When I do this again, I will massively reduce the amount of organics per Eds advice. 75% clay and 25% organics.
Doug


----------



## jfehr232 (Apr 13, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> I used powdered bentonite from a pottery store. Mix 1 part powdered bentonite with 1 part coconut fiber (looks like dirt), 1 part peat, and aobut 2/3 part pulverized sphagnum (ground in a blender). Mix it dry with a drill and then mix with water. Let stand for an hour so the organics will suck up the moisture or the consistancy will change while you are working.
> Doug


I think I might try this instead of the kitty litter idea. I used the kitty litter in my two exo's and I am not liking it to much. Misting heavily in it is causing the broms to fall from the sides and so forth so I have to be careful. Anyway, I will keep this mixture in mind.

Viv's look great and also your frogs!


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

jfehr232 said:


> I think I might try this instead of the kitty litter idea. I used the kitty litter in my two exo's and I am not liking it to much. Misting heavily in it is causing the broms to fall from the sides and so forth so I have to be careful. Anyway, I will keep this mixture in mind.
> 
> Viv's look great and also your frogs!


Hey John, did you see my follow up post that this mix was not optimal for a long life? Reduce the organics to only 25% so that there is 75% clay. I will also be using a large portion of the clay as powdered Redart clay as per Eds recommendation. He has made WAY more backgrounds than I have. I'll be mixing the clay powder as 75% Redart and 25% Bentonite. Then into this I will mix 25% organics. I anticipate that on my original mix, the organics will decompose and leave cavities in the clay that will eventually collapse.
Doug


----------



## Kaity (Sep 18, 2010)

Pumilo - now that you have your tanks up and running I was wondering how you were liking the dimensions? I am thinking about making my tanks the same size but am a little worried it might be too narrow. I'm curious to know your thoughts


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey Kaity, if I had the space, I would go wider. I figure at least it's a couple inches wider than something like a 10. Then too, I tried to compensate by going a full two feet front to back and also a full two feet tall. But I do have a limited space to work in. Man I wish my wife "got" frogs! I'd go 50 gallons minimum on all my vivs! Fill the whole basement! But alas...I am banished to one room. You know what they say, "When the momma ain't happy, Ain't nobody happy!"
I am very happy with my Pumilio Viv size. In fact, I am partway through an identical build for a pair of Escudos I picked up! That one is 2' x 2' x 2'. Plus another 4 of my standard size!
Doug


----------



## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

these. are. awesome.

i'm building two 20 gal verts in the next few months. i love the little shelves you built into the walls to give the frogs some more surfaces to hang out on!

how is the clay holding up? i see the note about 75% clay / 25% organics, i'm going to do just that. 

also wondering if the clay can handle being wet all of the time? my other viv's plants have grown best in the damp area near where my waterfall pours out, so i was planning on running a continuous drip powered by a small pump on my backgrounds ... not sure how the clay would stand up to water flowing over it all the time.

again. great vivs. i'm gonna have your pictures out while i'm scaping mine for sure! then its off to the reptile show to hunt for imitators.

-brett


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

btcope said:


> these. are. awesome.
> 
> i'm building two 20 gal verts in the next few months. i love the little shelves you built into the walls to give the frogs some more surfaces to hang out on!
> 
> ...


Thanks Brett. There are some tips to keep in mind about "setting" the clay with a biofilm. If you do that right there should not be any problems. Read this short thread to learn how to "set" your clay with a biofilm. Pay attention to Ed's input. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/59903-clay-fail.html
Doug


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I've been getting some questions about my clay formula. PMs are always welcome, but here it is in a little more detail.

Do NOT use the clay mix I mention early on. It has too many organics for long life. I anticipate that as the organics decompose, it will cavitate and eventually collapse. I am now using this mixture. 75 percent Redart dry powdered clay from any pottery supply store. 25 percent powdered Bentonite (sodium or Calcium) clay. Now into this I mix in 25 percent organics (peat, coco fiber, ground up sphagnum...any or a mix). I like to mix this dry and then add water until it reaches the consistancy of modeling clay. I also much prefer the color of this clay mix. It's a nice reddish brown instead of gray like everybodys kitty litter mix. I really don't get that stuff! Cat's crap in it! Do you really think they care about the quality of the clay they use in kitty litter? They buy whatever is cheapest that week. They make the scented in the same factory as the unscented. How much perfume dust is left in the machinery when they run the unscented batch? I'll post they clay walls of my new vivs when they are finished.
Doug


----------



## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah, I read a lot of clay threads including that one before deciding to go with it. i've only misted manually so far. once its up and going, i'll probably just run the drip wall for 5 min at a time or so a few times a day on its own timer.

hopefully I can duplicate the Ed success formula, although, admittedly, I settled for kitty litter when I couldn't find a local pottery store to supply with the other stuff. It colored up alright when I mixed in the peat moss. I just hope it holds up.

I'll let you know how it turns out. Just planted. Getting ready for a sexed pair of Varaderos i'm picking up in a couple weeks  ...


----------



## calebrez (Dec 9, 2009)

Man how have I missed this thread??? Lol I am getting married in august and I am confined to the basment with little room. I love the tanks you built and I was thinking of trying the same slopes front. I was wondering what size the glass pieces are. What angle did you cut it. And did you cut it yourself or have a glass shops do it for you? Sorry for all of the questions but it got me excited to see tanks like that all together. Lol


----------



## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

I love the viv design, it looks like the bins from a candy display.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

calebrez said:


> Man how have I missed this thread??? Lol I am getting married in august and I am confined to the basment with little room. I love the tanks you built and I was thinking of trying the same slopes front. I was wondering what size the glass pieces are. What angle did you cut it. And did you cut it yourself or have a glass shops do it for you? Sorry for all of the questions but it got me excited to see tanks like that all together. Lol


I did cut all the glass myself. When I figured the slope, I really did not take the angle into account. Instead I figured it was 24" tall and 24" front to back. So the side pieces are 24" x 24". Now from the back at the top, I measured forward, 15". That point marks the top of the slope. From the front, at the bottom, I measured up 10". This marks the bottom of the slope. Score your line and snap it off. _And did you cut it yourself or have a glass shops do it for you?_ Both. I am a glass shop! Don't let that slow you down though! This can totally be done with a T-square, Fletcher glass cutter, and a sander. One of these days I'll get the build thread done.


Tony said:


> I love the viv design, it looks like the bins from a candy display.


Thanks Tony, but much better "candy" inside!


----------



## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Pumilo said:


> Thanks Tony, but much better "candy" inside!


Until you try to eat it...


----------



## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

Thanks calebrez for bumping this thread up!

Doug, your custom tanks are very nice. I like how the doors use gravity to stay closed. Are they nice and tight (ff proof?), Im sure they are. Perfect size in my opinion. 11 3/4 wide so you can fit 4 on a rack. Genius. I wish Exo Terra would figure that out. 17.5 inch cubes!!


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Frank H said:


> Thanks calebrez for bumping this thread up!
> 
> Doug, your custom tanks are very nice. I like how the doors use gravity to stay closed. Are they nice and tight (ff proof?), Im sure they are. Perfect size in my opinion. 11 3/4 wide so you can fit 4 on a rack. Genius. I wish Exo Terra would figure that out. 17.5 inch cubes!!


Since they are cut by hand, there are tolerances. To close the gaps I wrap each door in waxed paper. Then I run a bead of silicone around the lip, where the door touches. Close the door and wait 24 hours before opening and peeling the waxed paper off the silicone "gasket". 100% fruit fly proof.


----------



## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

Thanks, Ill have to try that.


----------



## SGTPeppersLHC (Jun 12, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> I've been getting some questions about my clay formula. PMs are always welcome, but here it is in a little more detail.
> 
> Do NOT use the clay mix I mention early on. It has too many organics for long life. I anticipate that as the organics decompose, it will cavitate and eventually collapse. I am now using this mixture. 75 percent Redart dry powdered clay from any pottery supply store. 25 percent powdered Bentonite (sodium or Calcium) clay. Now into this I mix in 25 percent organics (peat, coco fiber, ground up sphagnum...any or a mix). I like to mix this dry and then add water until it reaches the consistancy of modeling clay. I also much prefer the color of this clay mix. It's a nice reddish brown instead of gray like everybodys kitty litter mix.
> Doug


Should I add rep-cal to this if I use the sodium bentonite? Or does the redart clay suffice for calcium?


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Frank H said:


> Perfect size in my opinion. 11 3/4 wide so you can fit 4 on a rack. Genius. I wish Exo Terra would figure that out. 17.5 inch cubes!!


Thanks Frank, that's what I was thinking when I figured the measurements.



SGTPeppersLHC said:


> Should I add rep-cal to this if I use the sodium bentonite? Or does the redart clay suffice for calcium?


The Redart will NOT supply calcium. 1/4 to 1/2 cup of Calcium Carbonate will add some calcium for your frogs. A nice bonus in a background but not necessary. More important, really, in a clay substrate but it sure wouldn't hurt.


----------



## SGTPeppersLHC (Jun 12, 2011)

So if I don't have enough time to make the background all at once, would the clay harden and not be of use if I mix it all up with water and leave it in a 5 gal bucket and work with it over a few days? Or should I mix up what I'll need in the moment?


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

SGTPeppersLHC said:


> So if I don't have enough time to make the background all at once, would the clay harden and not be of use if I mix it all up with water and leave it in a 5 gal bucket and work with it over a few days? Or should I mix up what I'll need in the moment?


The surfaces that are exposed to air, get hard and crusty. Instead of leaving it in a bucket, scoop it out and put it in a plastic bag. Force extra air out and twist tie it shut. Should be good for at least several days now. If left too long, it could go anaerobic and get very smelly. You could prevent that by refrigerating or freezing it if it is going to be an extended time before you can get to it.


----------



## ryan10517 (Oct 23, 2010)

i just leave mine in a bucket, and put a walmart bag over the top. I've had a batch keep for about 5 months that way


----------



## johnyrocks (Jun 25, 2011)

How is the clay dioing? I'm building a clay background and I need tips on how to pervent it from cracking or something. So far 1 week in it's gottong stiff at the very top where it doesn't get much water but the rest is still workable clay. Getting plants soon. Here's a vid if you wanna see it!


----------



## ryan10517 (Oct 23, 2010)

do you have a glass top? you kinda need one or the clay will get hard and fall off. plus darts like 80-100% humidity and it would be extremely difficult doing that with a screen top.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

johnyrocks said:


> How is the clay dioing? I'm building a clay background and I need tips on how to pervent it from cracking or something. So far 1 week in it's gottong stiff at the very top where it doesn't get much water but the rest is still workable clay. Getting plants soon. Here's a vid if you wanna see it!


I'm afraid you are going to have problems with only 25% clay. The organics will decompose, leaving...well, nothing in it's place. So then your wall will be 25% clay and 75%...nothing. It will cavitate and fail. Consider the recipe I list earlier in this thread.


----------



## cromag09 (Nov 11, 2010)

Hi, with the clay background how thick do you put it on? 1inch? 2 inches? sorry if you already said.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

cromag09 said:


> Hi, with the clay background how thick do you put it on? 1inch? 2 inches? sorry if you already said.


Anything thinner than about 3/4" to 1" tends to crack quickly and badly. Personally I have not experimented with anything over about 1.5 to 2 inches in a few thick spots for "texture".


----------



## SGTPeppersLHC (Jun 12, 2011)

So I got it all mixed up set up the viv with the clay and some cork bark and a manzanita branch I have and its still out in the sun where I was making it all, should I leave it out to dry a bit or not? I want to tip it upright but I'm worried it might come apart. It wasn't dripping wet just very sticky, I think I worry too much lol.


----------



## RentaPig311 (Jul 6, 2009)

It's hard to tell by the pictures but are you planting in the clay? I didn't see any use of net cups.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

RentaPig311 said:


> It's hard to tell by the pictures but are you planting in the clay? I didn't see any use of net cups.


I wrap a little sphagnum around a plant or cutting and use a piece of heavy galvanized wire bent into a staple shape and just push it into the clay. You can pull the wire out as soon as it is nicely rooted into the wall.


----------



## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Hopefully this is an appropriate place to post this question. Can you estimate for us how much material (dry clay, peat,cocofiber, etc.) to order for various size tanks? I am working on a 40B vert but I dont want to order too little and have to reorder, I also dont want to end up with a ton left over either. 
My question is mainly for the background on 3 sides on my vert. 
I hope this makes sense!
-Nate


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That's pretty variable. Some may put it on a lot thicker than others. Plus, when I measure out amounts, it is by the scoop, mostly to get proportions right, but it will be sold by the pound. Sorry, not much help.


----------



## CVB (May 30, 2011)

The planting in those tanks is extremely aesthetically pleasing; very natural and easy in feel, rather than looking deliberately placed. Interested to see the clay age in the tanks. The angle-opening tanks are also interesting, seems like it'd be a lot easier on hinges than true vertical hinged doors, while improving accessibility as well. Good angle for working inside the narrow tank, I'd think. They remind me of food or parts bins, in a good way.


----------



## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

Do you, or anyone else, have experience with applying clay over greatstuff if you want to thicken up areas of the background for asthetics/texture without adding all of the weight of the clay? I imagine if you cut off the smooth cured surface of the greatstuff, or sanded it, it would adhere fairly well but I'm not sure. It seems worthy of an experiment!

Oh, also while I'm writing a reply, do your thumbs like the upside down film canisters? I noticed them in one or two of the pics. (I've got no thumb experience.)


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

parkanz2 said:


> Do you, or anyone else, have experience with applying clay over greatstuff if you want to thicken up areas of the background for asthetics/texture without adding all of the weight of the clay? I imagine if you cut off the smooth cured surface of the greatstuff, or sanded it, it would adhere fairly well but I'm not sure. It seems worthy of an experiment!
> 
> Oh, also while I'm writing a reply, do your thumbs like the upside down film canisters? I noticed them in one or two of the pics. (I've got no thumb experience.)


Sorry friend. That is an experiment for someone else. I played with great stuff once. Not a fan.
My Green Lamasi have layed several clutches in the upside down canisters. Our Linbo Tarapoto have layed in a film canister pointing down at a 45 degree angle, so almost upside down.


----------



## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Thanks for the kudos, everybody! Appreciate it.
> 
> Oneshot, I wish I could but while I love getting a large variety of plants, I'm afraid I'm not much for plant ID. Basically, I purchase what I know works in Vivs, and I try to beg, borrow, trade, for plants I see in others vivs. Whenever I am in a greenhouse, I tell them what I am doing and ask for their recommendations on what to try. Sometimes they work out great, and other times, not so much. I'll try to ID a few for you but some of my names will just be "slang" or a nickname so to speak. These are all from tank 3. In pic 2 on the cork bark ledges is an assortment of mini orchids. In pic 3, in the far back left corner is a freaky tall growing plant. It's actually Ginger! To the right, the big oval leaves with the radiating pink/red thin stripes is Prayer Plant or Calathea. That's one of my "go to" plants as I love it and my thumbs love to lay eggs on it. The vines with the tiny round kind of thick leaves is Pepperomia Prostrata. I got a huge pot of it for 99 cents as it had root rot! Made a bunch of cuttings and it's doing fine! Two or three different kinds of dischidia vines. A bromeliad that is too narrow leafed for egg laying as I don't want any mystery tad deposits to turn off breeding. Still in pic 3 on the bottom left is another orchid I was given. My orchid loving friend knows what it is but I forgot already. Some creeping Oak Leaf Fig is visible in pic 3 and 4. Pic 4 bottom right is a Pothos with metallic silver spots. Slow growing but cool. To the left of that is a Lemon Button Fern (another fave). Further left, the wrinkly leaf is some sort of Pilea? First time trying it. Far right bottom corner...No Idea but man do I love it! Hey! Not too bad. Got at least a rough id on most of it! Oh yeah, and then three or four different mosses about. The yellow looking sphag WAS live green sphag but it did NOT like the bleach treatment! Hoping it will come back. Then there is a little branch of ghost wood on the right. I have another box of ghost wood coming in and I may put another piece in.
> 
> Glad you like it but here is perhaps my favorite Viv that I've done. It is for my Cayo Nancys. It is another of my slope fronts but it is twice the size at 24" x 24" x 24". Made it bigger to raise up those Pum babies!



Doug -
This viv is so cool it deserves a bump - WOW 

I love the slope - I am now inspired to try building out a viv like this -


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

parkanz2 said:


> Do you, or anyone else, have experience with applying clay over greatstuff if you want to thicken up areas of the background for asthetics/texture without adding all of the weight of the clay? I imagine if you cut off the smooth cured surface of the greatstuff, or sanded it, it would adhere fairly well but I'm not sure. It seems worthy of an experiment!
> 
> Oh, also while I'm writing a reply, do your thumbs like the upside down film canisters? I noticed them in one or two of the pics. (I've got no thumb experience.)


it works fine...


----------



## gootswa (Mar 16, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> I don't do anything one at a time! So here are my first 3 clay backgrounds. Let's start with our custom made Vivs. We completely fabricated these from the ground up from factory reject windows!


First time that I came across this post. Great tanks, and great frogs. 

I think that this is an excellent, if not one of the best ideas I ever heard. I have three 10 gallon tanks, and eventually I make all three into verts at the same because of this. 

In your opinion would you say that they got gradually better each time?
My fav of the three is the second.


----------



## R.variabilis (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks for all the great info. I will definitely consider this when building my tank.


----------



## DannyMeister (Sep 30, 2010)

Out of curiosity, 1 year after putting this together with a non-optimal clay to organics ratio, have you managed to keep the walls of these vivs up? The one I had done similar to yours took... oh what was it... maybe 10 months for the first cave in.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

No, they did not hold up. Too many organics and I should have based it on a primarily Red Art recipe instead of only Sodium Bentonite. I am back to mostly cork bark in my backgrounds but I do still supplement with some Red Art based clay.


----------



## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> No, they did not hold up. Too many organics and I should have based it on a primarily Red Art recipe instead of only Sodium Bentonite. I am back to mostly cork bark in my backgrounds but I do still supplement with some Red Art based clay.


I've been using a mix based off of your clay substrate mix, minus the sand:

-3 quarts Redart
-1 quart bentonite
-1 quart coco
-1 cup calcium carbonate (since the bentonite I'm using is sodium b, not calcium b, I doubled the c.carb from your recipe)

...so I would guess the coco is roughly only 15-20% of the mix. the stuff was really easy to apply and seems sturdy enough..... MUCH sturdier than kitty litter anyhow, especially when misted. It seems like it will work very well, but it hasn't been long enough for me to be totally sure.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That should be a much better mix for walls than my original bentonite formula Teddy. The other thing to remember for long term success is to go slowly with misting. You need to give it time to establish a biofilm over the wall. See Ed's comments here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/59903-clay-fail.html


----------



## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

hey doug great thread! have you ever tried the clay again the 'Ed' way?


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

tnwalkers said:


> hey doug great thread! have you ever tried the clay again the 'Ed' way?


Yes, I have. I have a group of Summersi and they like it a little dryer so I designed their viv thinking of a washed out, dried up stream bank. I do not have them on the misting system and simply hand mist them. Here is the thread. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/78189-not-another-pumilo-build.html Being hand misted I can control what's getting on the walls much better.


----------

