# Mixing F0, F1, F2...



## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

not sure where this thread should be...

from what i understand F0 is wild caught. if you mate two F0s, the babies are then F1, and so on. But lets say you mate F0 and F1, what do you call the babies?


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2006)

The WC are actually P1 for Parental and the F means Filial...I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. :? 

I only know that when you cross a P1 with and F1 it can be called a "backcross" or "testcross."

Do siblings have more in common with each other or with their parents?


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

bump! i've tried to look it up, but haven't sound anything. anybody else?


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Adam,

In any breeding experiment P1 (Parental 1) is the beginning. F1 (first filial) is the name given to the offspring of P1. F2 is the name given to the offspring of F1 X F1. I believe that any other cross be it a backcross or test cross has to be labeled as such and the offspring of a back cross are called F1 from that cross. F1 have to be labeled as to what they are F1 from. In the pet trade F1 is typically used to denote F1 from wild parents but technically F1 can be from any cross. You just have to label them as such. If I was to breed one of my female leucs to a male from another breeder, I could call the offspring F1 from a cross between Aaron’s Frog Farm ‘Green Footed’ leucs and Whoever’s ‘Green Footed’ leucs. For normal pet trade nomenclature, once you perform any cross that is not a brother X sister cross (ex F2 x F1) the offspring are no longer given an F#


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## George B (Apr 2, 2005)

Here is a related discussion and my take on F1 use in the hobby. http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12760&highlight= I personally think that to use F1 to refer to any simply unrelated cross is misleading. It is generally accepted in captive breeding efforts and the aquarium industry and many dart froggers that F1 refers to the first generation offspring from wild caught parents. 

Squidbillie siblings are on the average just as related to each other as they are to either parent In each case they share 50% of the same genetic material. 

George


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

George B said:


> Here is a related discussion and my take on F1 use in the hobby. http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12760&highlight= I personally think that to use F1 to refer to any simply unrelated cross is misleading. It is generally accepted in captive breeding efforts and the aquarium industry and many dart froggers that F1 refers to the first generation offspring from wild caught parents.


I agree. While techincally F1 could be appropriately used to designate the first generation following any mating cross that is of particular interest, we should stick to using it to denote generations from the wild. To use it any other way indicates we are dinking around with genetics more than we ought to be.

Describing partial generations is something I've thought about. I'm trying to breed a WC pumilio male with F1 cb females. If successful, I'll describe the generation as F1.5 but that really only works for the first P1xF1 cross. But given the apparent difficulty of producing F2 froglets in some frogs, I think it is important to indicate when one parent is cb and one is wc because it indicates partial progress on the path to F2.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

so if the parents are P1 and F1, could i just call their offspring F1/F2


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