# Lump diagnosis, please



## Tookay (Jul 20, 2006)

Just noticed this large lump on the breast of one of my tincs this morning. I'm certain it wasn't there two weeks ago, and I'm fairly sure it wasn't there early in the week. Any ideas what it might be? The frog is behaving perfectly normally. Eating well, active, etc.










Thanks in advance for any suggestions


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## audioandroid (Mar 13, 2005)

could be a cyst or even a parasite. there have been cases where a worm can actually habor under the skin. even cases where a vet has removed them successfully. as a procuationary i'd start panacur dosage immeadiately.


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## Tookay (Jul 20, 2006)

I panacured them two weeks ago - I'll dose them again. Just seems really big for a parasite, what kind of parasite would cause such a big lump?

and do cysts grow that fast?


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## Tookay (Jul 20, 2006)

...and as quickly as it came, it's suddenly gone, like within the last couple of hours it's disappeared almost completely.

WEIRD.

Could that be the sign of a parasite that is moving around?


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## Tookay (Jul 20, 2006)

I take that back. It's not gone, it IS moving! I can actually see this large bulge moving around inside my poor little tinc. Now it is on the opposite side of his body and he is kicking at his sides like he is trying to get rid of a pesky fruit fly.

it's making me nauscious.

Now does anyone know what this might be?

I did dose them with panacure a couple of hours ago, so if it is a parasite, that might explain why it is on the move.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

?... http://dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14392 

(I'm not implying this is a pheonix worm, just that it may be the same, and currently unidentified, thing.)


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## vet_boy77 (Feb 10, 2005)

I also doubt it is a phoenix worm, but parasites are probably the cause; especially if you're seeing a physically moving lump. There are a few nematodes that can do this readily. Capillaria and Rhabdias speciaes come to mind, but other strongyles and other metazoans can too. Unfortunately skin worms aren't readily killed by Panacure, even if it is a species that is typically sensitive and you're giving a proper oral dose. 
Fly larvae, mites can cause parasitic cysts but these don't move across the frog's body so quickly. Cysts, absesses are also possible, but, again, they don’t move.
I advise seeking veterinary attention. If the cyst is big enough, I think you’re best bet is physically open it out and remove the worm. Vet often have the instruments needed and the steady hands, even if they’re not frog specialists (but it’s a plus if you know one). Secondly if they get the worm out, they are able to drop it in preservative, send it off and truly identify it. 

Unfortunately, if there is one there is the possibility on more. I recommend running fecals on your frogs if you haven’t already. Panacure does not kill all worms. 

Best of luck. I love to see some pictures if you are able to further diagnose it.

John


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

If you haven't already, I would strongly suggest isolating this guy from your other frogs until you can figure out what's going on. If you haven't done it already it may be too late, but better to go ahead just in case


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## Tookay (Jul 20, 2006)

Thank you John and Sbreland. That's some good information and good advice. There is a very good vet locally whom I have taken the frogs to before who knows a lot about herps. I just don't have the cash for a big vet bill right now.

Does anyone know if this is something that can run it's course or is it usually fatal. (I know, I know it probably depends on the type of parasite and there is no real way of knowing without extracting it) I answered my own question, but if anyone has an insites or experience, I'd like to hear it.

The lights just came on in the tank (it's here at work) and the frogs are just coming out of their sleeping spots. So after watching Teevee (the infected frog) for a bit... looks like he had some shedding problems, or is finishing shedding, not sure which. He is very slimmy and has left a wet trail on the leaves behind him. He is trying to swallow what looks like a long strand of skin. He is opening and closing his mouth slowly like he is having trouble swallowing something (or is trying to regeritate something?) His whole abdomin constricts with these efforts.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

thats normal while eating skin. almost had a heart attack the first time i saw it. 
your frog can live thru it if it is what i saw years ago in one of my tincs. the female of the pair looked as if she had a rib sticking out her side. i transferred her to quarentine and was going to euthanize her in a day. 3 days later i checked her and she had been split from belly to back. i could see a transparent hole into her insides that was covered by ? a thin transparent skin. she had healed w/out any meds. i left her there and killed the worm? and 3 days later she went back in w/ the male and laid a good clutch a week later. the split turned black and wasnt visible other than pattern. she did well breeding since then. never any other problems, clean fecals and never a problem w/ the male. this was when i lived in the city of buffalo. i never found what it was, where it came from and have never seen any problems since. that was over 3 years ago and she is still doing fine at age 5 and breeding well.
i`d quarantine w/ paper towel in a shoe box and alcohol the workm so as not to let it burrow into the substrate because you dont know what it is and life cycle etc. a vet is the best choice, but if not i`d follow the quarantine and alcohol someone else suggested.


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## Tookay (Jul 20, 2006)

update:

so Teevee has been acting fine all day. eating well and no signs or lumps.

Concerned co-workers checked in on his progress this morning, and when I told them that I was just going to wait and see, that I couldn't afford to take him to a vet, one of my supes went and got it approved to have the vet bill paid from my project budget. Totally blew me away - such a nice gesture. It's amazing how an interest and care for creatures in our environment can bring out the best in people. 

I am still going to hold off on the vet visit and just watch for now. But it's nice to know I have options.

Thanks for the helpful advice from all you dendroboard folks too. Makes a hobby like this a real treat.


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