# Green Triv breeding :) Mass Morphing 10/19/06



## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Look at what I found under the cocohut in my green triv viv tonight 

Also look at what else was in there....d*mn snail....needless to say that snail is a bit squished now :twisted: I guess I came along in the nick of time.

Bill


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Bill [or anyone else] 
what type of snail is that? I assume based on that I think I see it licking its chops :wink: that is it a known egg eater species, true?

Shawn

[ I ask b/c those little buggers are all over my retic tank]


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Congrats, Bill!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

DANG IT!!! Ya beat me!!!

Oh well congrats man, gj...Hope they hatch and morph out for ya, and if so let me know when you have some froglets ready...i could use another male or 2.

Wonder who will win the Bassleri race?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Thanks for the comments....it was a bit of a surprise after 1 year of no action.

Shawn I don't know what kind of snail that is but I'm pretty sure they eat eggs....I've seen them around egg clutches far too often to think otherwise.

Bill


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

very cool...


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Bill
Stick the photo in the ID section and see if anyone else knows some more into on that snail.

Shawn


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Isn't it likely the snail is eating the micro organismis that are probably on the surface of the egg???

Bill, you should give that one bad egg to one of the snails just to see if it eats it.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

I dont know wut they are but I have tons in My Panamanian Green & Black Auratus viv. :shock: 

CONGRATS BILL!!!!

Wut Morph are they ????

Pics of the parents and the viv Bill ???




THANX,

TODD


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

One of the few CB breedings of 2 stripe green trivs and we are talking about snails????? Boo!!! Boooo!!!!


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

Bill congrats..... 

FYI that is a bad snail.. i have them in some of my tanks and they love to eat eggs, no need for you to give them one, they will eat only the egg and leave the sac alone. Damn things have cost me so many eggs already....


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2006)

i think im the only one on this board who has adult vents and is not breeding them!! the problem, IMO, is those snails!!!


on a good note GREAT JOB BILL!!! i second the notion for pics of parents and home


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

As requested, here are some pictures of the frogs and their viv....

The frog photos are from when they were in a 20 long quarantine setup....easier to capture pictures in that setting....they are much nicer green in real life but for some reason I have trouble capturing the green on camera without it washing out a bit.





























Now for the viv....well if the board ever holds a contest for ugliest viv, I'll win hands down with this one....the frogs have defied my attempts at providing more plants and for whatever reason are very happy with this barren ugly setup. They were provided a number of hide places and they've constructed a few more by burrowing into the sphagnum moss layer.  It's a 55 gallon housing a 1.1 pair....I started with 2.1 but one of the males died under circumstances that points towards it losing a fight.

front shot










side shot looking towards the one end of the viv that has a few plants at least....










side shot looking to the barren end of the viv....note the highly complex water feature :wink: Incidentally, the pair bred in the coco hut at the barren end.










It ain't pretty but it seems to work....go figure.

Bill


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

NICE BILL!! 


ADD ANOTHER FROG TO MY WISHLIST FROM BILL !!!

TODD


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Running water or standing?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Just a standard water dish even though it spans across the viv....

Bill


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks Bob,

Does anyone know if Rob (rmelancon) uses running water with his?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I believe he does if i remember correctly. 
I've heard it recommended for trivs often, along with lots of leaf litter and cover. Ofcourse Bill's success proves that those rules like most are just guidelines really...They are supposed to be more likely to breed in groups also...again just a guideline appearantly 

Wish i had 2 more males ;(


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

My setup does have running water but I think they just need to know there is a place to deposit tads, hence Bill's success. I've had quite a few morph out in the tank as my "water feature" is about a third of the 75gal tank and there is a lot of algae for the tads.

Pretty much everything you read about darts can be considered guidelines and not absolute truths. What works for some doesn't always work for others, and that, in my opinion, is one of the few hard rules in dart frog husbandry.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Thanks Rob!


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I'd love to reintroduce my triv tads back into the viv but suspect the water 'feature' is a bit too small....I regret needing to pull them because I would love to see the sight of the male packing all the tads but once I found the suspect snail, out they went.

They seem to be doing well though...here is a photo taken this morning....I always get paranoid that I'm going to screw them up and this batch is unlikely to be rapidly replaced.










Bill


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

You can do it Bill!!!! I believe in you!!! BTW did you see Seans trio of bass up for sale? im broke...get em, breed em  or Rob you get em..breed em


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## bigmike (Nov 30, 2005)

Wow, this is wonderful. Congrats!!! This means there's hope for the rest of us.......


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

how many do u have bigmike? and whats the sex ratio?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Well the first green triv tads hatched out today (3 in total) and their 7 clutchmates aren't far behind. The newly hatched tads are swimming well so I take that as a good sign... 










However, I must admit to being nervous about growing these guys up....while 10 tads sounds like a lot I suspect I won't be seeing a lot of egg clutches from the trivs.

My plan is to grow them up communally in a 10 gallon tank, half full of tadpole tea water, temperature controlled to 75 degrees and aerated but no filtration. The tank is already set up and contains a lot of anacharis which should help with tadpole waste and I'll also have Indian Almond leave fragments in abundance. I plan on feeding mostly Tadpole Bites but will be looking to supplement with perhaps bloodworms and also Cyclopeeze....while the latter may seem odd given that you don't need to color up the red in green trivs, I've had really good luck using it as a supplement for non-red frog tadpoles...it has good nutritional value.

Wish me luck....suggestions as always are not only welcome but greatly appreciated.

Bill


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## bigmike (Nov 30, 2005)

Dendro Dave said:


> how many do u have bigmike? and whats the sex ratio?


1:1 I believe but, not 100 percent sure. One is raher dumpy and stout and the other is more slender and long....


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Good luck Bill....glad to hear they are hatching out and swimming well. Let me know when your ready to let a few go 


Oh and bigmike...if you decide to let your pair go someday, remember me


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## bigmike (Nov 30, 2005)

Dendro Dave said:


> Good luck Bill....glad to hear they are hatching out and swimming well. Let me know when your ready to let a few go
> 
> 
> Oh and bigmike...if you decide to let your pair go someday, remember me


Dave, You'll be the first to know......


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Rad.....i should be quiet for awhile though....Bill is probably tired of me soliciting frogs from him.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Tadpoles from clutch number 1 roughly one month after hatching out. They are developing well and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Clutch two has almost completely hatched out and clutch three is developing along nicely. 

Bill


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Clutch three?!?

Trying to flood the market?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

LoL....what market? There is me...uh and this one guy, who is a friend of my moms brothers girlfriends sisters aunt. Seriously Bill, i only have so much money and space 

Nah hopefully the popularity of these and other similar species will increase as more CB become available and people see them in person.


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## bigmike (Nov 30, 2005)

I agree Dave 100%. Bill, you're a pioneer. Keep up the good work


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Lol I don't know about flooding the market...for some reason these characters just decided to go at it with a vengence. Interestingly enough, their behavior has turned to be quite bold as they are oftentimes seen out in the open now.

It would be nice to get the CB green trivs established in the hobby as they are a very nice frog. Just wish me luck....I think I know what I'm doing but a few prayers won't hurt :wink: 

Bill


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Oh yeah, like you seem to need them. Just be prepared to feed the dickens out of them when they morph! and keep us posted with pics, I'm really interested to see how they morph and develop compared to the red/orange.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

At day 47, starting to get ready to come out onto land.










Clutch 3 still developing nicely....what a mass of eggs/tadpoles....










Interestingly enough, the experiment with cohort 1 where I divided the tads into those raised by hand in 16 oz deli cups and those I raised communally in a tank (complete with tadpole sludge) has been inconclusive to date. All the hand raised tadpoles have grown to the same size while there is a diversity of sizes in the tank raised group suggesting suppression of some members...

Bill


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

First froglet came out of the water this evening looking like he is wondering what he's gotten himself into...

Bill


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

cool  If he is a male...i have some girl friends for him!


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Well this falls into the don't try this at home kids but as I was searching through the sphagnum moss in the shoebox I'm morphing a few of the green triv tad/froglets in this little fellow decided to hop up on my finger. Since he wanted to be a movie star I obliged him










Someone's hands need some lotion I think :roll: Function of spending all afternoon cleaning out snake and lizard cages....

Bill


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

Ooo...the grand canyon! Oh wait that's just one of Bill's fingers... 

Cute little triv bill, nice work!


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

awesome, congrats!! let me know when you have some available. ive been waiting to see other epis for sale. they are big and take big food from what i remember.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Some more green triv related pics...lol I'll probably bore the board the way I did with Santa Isabel tricolor pics last summer and fall 

Green Triv froglet...I'll be keeping a running set of photos on these guys to see how they color up with time.










Mass tad hatching....a big contrast to the ones and twos we are used to seeing with many other PDFs...










Enjoy! I'm really having fun with these guys....so far I've seen absolutely no evidence of SLS (knock on wood) which after what I've seen with tricolors is a real treat.

Bill


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Have you gotten a fourth clutch yet?


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## Shockfrog (Apr 14, 2004)

> Some more green triv related pics...lol I'll probably bore the board the way I did with Santa Isabel tricolor pics last summer and fall


I'm not that easily bored!!... epips never seem to bore me at all! And I haven't bred these myself so please continue to post pics!!

Remco


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Catfur said:


> Have you gotten a fourth clutch yet?


Clutch number 4 was laid today...thanks for the good karma :wink: 

I'm beginning to wonder if I can keep up with these characters. I've morphed out 6 froglets already, have 50 tads in the water as we speak and now this latest clutch :roll: 

Bill


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Are you raising them individually or communally Bill?

I used to raise all of my tads individually - well, that was until the Vittatus started breeding :roll: They seem to do well communally though.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Oz,

I'm experimenting with both ways....raising one group in a communal tank and others either individually or two to a 16 oz. deli cup. 

I'm normally carrying 250-300 tads, most housed individually in deli cups, at any one time so the blips created by frogs like the trivs are noticeable but not overwhelming (yet)...lol.

Bill


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Niiiiice Bill. Congrats on a 4th clutch, and hopefully many more to come!


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Size comparison of one of the new froglets with a US nickel....

Bill


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

cool....cant wait to see how they color up


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## biocmp (Mar 7, 2006)

great job bill. That is alot of tads to care for!!!!


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Those are some pretty big froglets.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Well, they come from some pretty big frogs! And if you think about it... they are actually "small" compared to other PDF froglets ratio wise... they are much smaller compared to adult size than say... imitator that morph about half the size of their parents.... but being such a small frog in the first place most of us don't notice how crazy that is.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Kind of hard to tell because the flash washes the colors out but the green is starting to come in nicely even though this frog is only 3 weeks out of the water...










One other interesting observation I've made so far....while the hand raised and communal tank raised froglets morphed out at roughly the same size, the tank raised froglets seem to be putting on size faster. Pretty subtle difference so far but noticeable.

So I'm planning on putting the entire cohort from clutch 4 into a communal tank setup to see how they do....plus it makes tad care a heck of a lot easier 

Bill


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

has anyone ever reproduced the orange color morph of trivittatus there like the most uber looking dart frogs ive ever seen


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Yes,

They are not easy breeders. As with the green’s, people have had success using large tanks with a water feature.


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

id like to get some but they seem way to diffucult


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

If you can manage a large tank they arent hard to care for, but it isnt easy to get them to breed sometimes (even in a large tank). Also they are larger darts which is good because they can take larger foods that people might have easier access to...but they also eat more so if you cant afford the food or are inexperienced with keeping your cultures going they might go hungry.

Even WC seem to be pretty hardy...but CB should prove even more so. Pics dont do their colors/look justice they really are nice display frogs but can be shy (but not always)

Anyways back on topic....


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

One more comment on the orange stripes… I have a WC probable pair. I only see them when I clean their quarantine tank. Because of this I wouldn’t recommend them as a first or only dart.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Another reminder that triv froglets don't seem to suffer from the same tendency to drown as do other Epipedobates species, these little guys were climbing up the glass wall of their communal aquarium today. 










Mass morphing of roughly 1/2 of this cohort of tads after capturing with a net....given that they are already good leapers, they had a tendency to jump out of the net but I eventually gathered them up and placed them in the shoebox...











Ehhh I noticed I missed one that has already popped front legs...oh well he'll just climb up the glass so no worry.

Incidentally, total time from hatching to morphing out for this group was ONLY 30 DAYS :shock: 

Bill


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)




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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

30 DAYS...dang.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Yep absolutely ridiculous. The tads had plenty of varied munchies in the community tank, including aquatic plants, algae, 'pond scum' frog bites and I also used Hikari algae wafers which the tads seemed to especially relish. I had an airstone bubbling but no water changes and no filtration. Twenty six tads in ~ 8 gallons of water in a 20 L.

Bill


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