# pumilio tads



## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

well Ive had a breeding pair of Rios for some time now the female produces 6-10 eggs every 10 days like clockwork the male fertilizes every time and every egg makes it to the tad stage but none hatch. they either go bad before hatching or are to weak to make it out of the egg. my question is is there anything know that causes this. the tads them selves are fully developed just look very under sized. humidity is around 96% temps are around 76-80 i dust with repto life calcium + D3 and repto life vit and min plus i use dendrocare once a week for the retinol. they have lost about 15 clutches so far so I'm not so sure its them anymore and just want to make sure its not something I'm doing.
thanks
Steve


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## Exoticdarts (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Steve,

How often are you physically in or by their cage? This would include looking with the door open, feeding or just trying to find eggs or deposit sites. How much time are you in their presence when they mate? These all play a very big importance when it comes down to breeding. With our social and behavioral studies of Pumilio, we have found less presence is more beneficial than supplemental interference by the owner.

Kevin


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

i would say 3-5 times a week mostly for feeding i check for eggs when i feed. they never seemed bothered by my presence but I'm not a frog mind reader. Ive never seen them mate they tend to do so at night. there egg deposit sites are viewable through the glass with no need to open.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

could tank size play a part. they are still in there ten gal temp tank i haven't moved them to there permanent 20 gal because of the eggs and the fear i might be missing tads that they actually transported. but with the way there clutches have been going I'm going to make the move real soon.


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## Exoticdarts (Sep 14, 2006)

In our facility, we only open the tanks to feed 4 times a week or every other day. The time spent in the tank is only enough time to drop food in and close the door. We never take the time to look for eggs, tads or froglets. If you can see eggs through the glass, that should be good enough. Try to keep out as much as possible and observe from a distance for about a month. Giving them a chance to breed comfortably in their own environment is very important to Pumilio breeding success. We have tested both hands on and hands off and have found that letting them do their thing without intervention has increased the chances of the eggs and tads survivability in the long run. Now if they are a young pair, sometimes it may take a few (3-20) clutches or even a year to get things right. What I have read is that it's our presence that intimidates them and they are discouraged by this. Here is a test to confirm this...when you see him calling, go up to the cage and if he stops, he sees you as a threat. If he keeps calling, this means he is ok with your presence and feels no threat. Looks like you are doing every thing else right. Every Pumilio breeder pair we own (30+) in our facility is treated in this same fashion. Try seeing things from their view...imagine living in a glass house in the city with no blinds and being watched. It would make me feel a bit uncomfortable. 

Hope this helps! 

Best of luck,
Kevin


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## Exoticdarts (Sep 14, 2006)

Yes! That would play a part as well, but not all the time. If they are breeding, they are content in what they are living in. Guarumo need 20+ to be happy from what we have observed. Some of our best breeders are in temporary 19 qt containers with 1 brom and are producing eggs and tads on a large scale...so much that we have had to pull and add them to our segregated moms tanks just to raise the tads. Some of our Pumilio require 10 to 20 gal per frog but I believe bigger is always better in the case of Pumiliio.

Kevin


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

well they are far from afraid of me, they are like dogs when i open the tank. they come to the front for food, as for the male he calls all day every day no matter what i could pet him while he calls and i don't think he would give a hoot. obviously i don't but its the point. nothing like my bastis who stop the second someone walks near. i don't know if they are young they are wc and came in on the same import. thanks for the tips i moved there tank to the end of the rack where the least traffic is. i also had to move a wc campana auratus pair like that and cardboard the front of their tank cause the male was getting skinny and his fecals kept coming back negative. now hes plump and calling. he just doesn't like people at all.


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## Exoticdarts (Sep 14, 2006)

One of our super blues were the same as yours and we to had to cover up most of the cage. Finally after 2 months they built up enough confidence to come out...very shy though.

The best of luck to you and please feel free to PM or email if you need help or just have questions.

Kevin


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

well i finished there 20gal vert setup. i wasnt going to move them due to all the breeding but with all the bad eggs im going to move them to theyre new tank. it needs a few more plants and some creeping fig but it should be ready for frogs this afternoon.










here is my quins new 20 it also will get some plants to finish it off.








and this is the 20vert resently set up for my group of bastis


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Nice tanks Steve. Got a decent amount of thumbs I see.....

Creeping fig? I have one taking over one of my Leuc tanks....it's running...not creeping.


Phil


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

here is a few shots of my setup, its not that big but i have a few. all thumbs but the galacts leucs and campanas.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Wow, looks very organized.


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

What size rack is that first one?


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## almazan (Jun 6, 2004)

it looks like the standard 48" gorilla rack.
Charles


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

the rack is a 72h 24d and 48w. i try to keep things as orginised as possible i dont have a whole lot of room.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Which "Rios" ?? I have 3 pair of the "06" Imports and they all do the same thing as yours . Since 06 when I got them I have had only 1 SLS froglet from all 3 pair of them . I don't think too many people have alot of luck with them . ?
The Guraumo's I finally got a couple froglets from my group , it took almost a year . But they didn't make it a month .


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

they came from mike coraggio at the very beginning of this year. so i guess 07 import. I'm going to try a bigger tank see if that helps. Ive already tried everything. they breed like crazy just almost all of there eggs go bad or are way to small. even the ones that made it to tads were way too small to survive.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

That's where and when my Guarumo's are from . It took till a couple months ago to get a froglet from mine . 
And they started laying again recently and so far those eggs are going bad again .


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