# testing...........testing



## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

For the past few years I've been using heavy duty PCM gel packs to ship my frogs. I've had excellent results and can pretty much ship in any kind of weather. But, at $12 a piece they are pricey and I use 2 per box. And then I also have to get them returned to me which at times can be a hassle.

Lately I've noticed a few people posting about the smaller Cryopak PCM gel packs at just $2 a piece with postive results. So, I decided to purchase a few and put them to the test. Here's the first test I set up.

I used a small box, pretty much a 9" cube, with a 1 3/8" foam cooler on the inside. Perfect for shipping a few thumbnails.









I warmed up 4 of the Cryropak gel packs to 72F and placed one along each side in the foam cooler which left room for the frog cups in the center.









I placed a temp data logger in the box, sealed it up,placed it in my refrigerator to simulate winter shipping, and left it their for 24 hours. My refrigerator is 44F.

Here's the result. I was impressed. After 24 hours the temps in the box were at 65F 









After I warm up the gel packs I'm going to try the same test with just 2 gel packs. After that it's into the freezer which is at single digits


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Good information Gary! You, sir, are saving some frogs lives with this!


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Well done, Gary. How does this compare with the larger panels that you use?




gary1218 said:


> For the past few years I've been using heavy duty PCM gel packs to ship my frogs. I've had excellent results and can pretty much ship in any kind of weather. But, at $12 a piece they are pricey and I use 2 per box. And then I also have to get them returned to me which at times can be a hassle.
> 
> Lately I've noticed a few people posting about the smaller Cryopak PCM gel packs at just $2 a piece with postive results. So, I decided to purchase a few and put them to the test. Here's the first test I set up.
> 
> ...


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

stemcellular said:


> Well done, Gary. How does this compare with the larger panels that you use?


With the larger PCM I use now I did more extreme type testing. On the cold side the temps were in the teens to single digits. For the hot testing temps were over 100.

I'm interested in seeing the tests results when I put the box in the freezer.

I posted most all those results when I did them a few years ago. With a little searching you should be able to find them I would think.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

gary1218 said:


> I posted most all those results when I did them a few years ago. With a little searching you should be able to find them I would think.


Found it. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/44185-pcm-hard-plastic-panels-im-impressed.html


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Here's another one - http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/20688-summer-shipping.html

And one more - http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/36220-taking-advantage-cold-weather-brrr.html


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Test #2. Same set up as the first test but with only 2 gel packs in the box. Pretty good result.









At the end of the 24 hours the temps in the box were at 51F. It took about 20 hours for the temps in the box to dip below 60F. I think that's still pretty good.

Next test will be more extreme with the box going into the freezer. BUT, I'm headed to VA first thing tomorrow morning for a weeks vacation so it won't be till after that till I can run the test.


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

Which Gel Packs are these?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

EricIvins said:


> Which Gel Packs are these?


EricIvins, Gary is testing the Cryopak Phase 22 gel paks from the company TCP. They are a smaller, soft sided version of the Phase 22 panels. Interest has been sparked in these smaller, more economical version of Phase 22 after Stemcellular was kind enough to start this thread, http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/66509-shipping-phase-panels-example.html , concerning a shipment of frogs sent to me.


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> EricIvins, Gary is testing the Cryopak Phase 22 gel paks from the company TCP. They are a smaller, soft sided version of the Phase 22 panels. Interest has been sparked in these smaller, more economical version of Phase 22 after Stemcellular was kind enough to start this thread, http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/66509-shipping-phase-panels-example.html , concerning a shipment of frogs sent to me.


Those pictured are Phase 22s? The pictures I received weren't of clear packs, and my cost through TCP is higher, so I just want to make sure I'm on the right page.......


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Eric,

Ron at AlphaProBreeders has the gel packs for $1.95.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Also,

U can buy them yourselves by the case...directly

I do.

Looks like 3-4 per box is looking like a better strategy

BTW, I prefer them to the panels, just b/c easier to squeeze into smaller spaces.

S


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

sports_doc said:


> Also,
> 
> U can buy them yourselves by the case...directly
> 
> I do.


I checked into that as well. The price I was quoted by the company worked out to $1.85 per gel pack. Not much of a savings. Did you get a better deal than that? Or did you just like getting a case of 48 all at one time?


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

gary1218 said:


> I checked into that as well. The price I was quoted by the company worked out to $1.85 per gel pack. Not much of a savings. Did you get a better deal than that? Or did you just like getting a case of 48 all at one time?


That's what I'm not understanding? That's the same price I was quoted, plus $28 to get the case shipped........Unless they've gone up? They don't sell any less than a case.......I have to call the Rep at some point though....... I'm looking at a couple different things they offer......


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

I noticed they also have a product called phase 22 pouch which looks similar to the cryopak. Anyone seen or used these?


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

Awesome website domain!



JeremyHuff said:


> www.thenotorioustinctorius.com


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

JeremyHuff said:


> I noticed they also have a product called phase 22 pouch which looks similar to the cryopak. Anyone seen or used these?


The cryopak is that Phase 22 pouch. That's what I'm running the tests on 

I know the picture on their web site looks like some kind of silver pouch and the one I pictured is clear. Not sure if they went through some kind of change and didn't update their web site. Or posting a pic on their web site of a clear pack just wouldn't have shown up very well.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Steve25 said:


> Awesome website domain!


Thanks, now to get it live...

Gary, it looked like it was two different things. Turns out they are about 10 min from my house. I'll try to got get samples.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

back from vacation

Here's test #3. Same as test #1, 4 gel packs in 9" box, but this time the box is in the freezer.









Temps dropped below 60F after 14 hours. Drop off after that was pretty quick.

But, I'm thinking most often my boxes are delivered within 10-12 hours.

Comments???


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

Gary,
Since you're in the swing of cold temp testing, do you want try out the heater I ginned up?
Send me a PM with your addy and I'll ship it up to you for the test.


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## ritersofly (Oct 23, 2010)

gary1218 said:


> back from vacation
> 
> Here's test #3. Same as test #1, 4 gel packs in 9" box, but this time the box is in the freezer.
> 
> ...


I'd say 10-12 hour deliveries sounds about right, and in that case, the results are quite impressive. They lasted 14 hours above 60F without a heat pack, in freezing temps. Definitely impressive!


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

It is also hard to imagine they are at freezer temps the entire time.

I had frogs get lost, take 4 days to be delivered, in winter, and with 4 PCM22 packs they were still alive.

S


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