# Thoughts on backgrounds?



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

After talking to a few different froggers about backgrounds this weekend, I thought I might start a discussion about what we are trying to accomplish with our backgrounds and how we build them. This is something that has been percolating in the back of my mind over my last few builds. 

My current thinking is that 1) I always over-think my backgrounds when taking into account how the tank will look once it's grown in and 2) the texture, color, etc. of the background are much less important than its "skeleton."

After my first 10 or so builds, I finally figured out that once my plants grew in, much of the effort I spent on the cosmetics of the background are completely invisible because the plants cover it up. Even the texture and color of the background changes over time as moisture, algae and small plants cover things up. 

Lessons Learned: Don't sweat the cosmetics of the background TOO much. Do I want to cover yellow Great Stuff? Probably, yes. (I don't do these backgrounds anymore, but it makes the point.) Do I care whether I use peat moss vs. coco coir to cover stuff on the background? Probably not. It all tends to look the same once grown in. I should use whatever is cheapest/easiest to work with/already available in the garage. 

What really stands the test of time in my tanks is the "infrastructure" that I put into the background (and "sideground"? Don't know if this is a word. If not, it is now.). When I say infrastructure, I mean the hardscape part of the background - the branches and root-lookin' stuff that I have coming out of the background/sideeground that I can use as attachment sites for the plants. This stuff plays a much larger role in how the tank looks years later. I like to pay attention to which plants will like which of the branches I put in. What attaches to what? Will the hardscape at the top block the light for the lower tiers of plant attachment sites? I try to spend time imagining what the hardscape will look like with the plants I plan to put in there. I then adjust it accordingly. It helps looking at my existing tanks and the plants they have in them and how they are doing. I look for dark spots in my existing tanks and decide whether I like them or not. Then, I take those lessons back to the new tank and try to incorporate them into my new design. Regardless, if the "skeleton" of the tank works well, you will likely be able to adjust planting locations so that everything works well eventually.

Lessons Learned: Rather than spend the time on the color and texture stuff above, I spend the time on the physical and spatial placement of the branches and other items that form the infrastructure or skeleton of the tank. I spend a lot of time trying to imagine how the tank will look grown out. How will shadows be cast with the light I plan to use? How will I secure the branches? Will I anchor them to the back and again on the side? Will they just jut out of the background (this takes more effort to secure them tightly to the back)?

There are still some things that I do tend to take the time to do in my backgrounds. 

1) I am always on the lookout for materials to use for a build. What will work well for the plants? Is it important to have a lot of attachment sites for roots (e.g. for shinglers)? Do I need to be able to push wire into it or screw things in that will support plants? Does it look too artificial?

2) I pay attention to how the frogs will access and interact with different parts of the background and infrastructure. Do I have a free floating branch that goes from side to side in the tank and the frogs will have to climb straight up the glass to use it? They might be willing sometimes, but not as often as if I put a slanted branch in that gives them an easier path up there. Do I plan to put so many plants on a given surface that there is no room for a little fella to hop? 

3) How will this last over time? Over the years I have found that my Great Stuff backgrounds don't stand the test of time quite as well as tanks where I use all natural materials. I will say that this may be because I was awful at Great Stuff backgrounds way back when I started. Silicone works its way off of the GS and whatever I put in the silicone for texture falls out eventually. If I don't do a good job of securing infrastructure, it can fall off when bumped, etc.

What do I actually use in my tanks?
My current favorite background/sideground material and construction technique is one that I learned from pumilo on this board (he wasn't the first to use cork bark mosaics, and I can't remember who to give the credit to). I use cork bark mosaic for the background and silicone with tree fern fiber pressed in while it's still wet for the sides. Cork mosaic because it's easy, looks great and takes very little time. You can still give it some cosmetic love by choosing where to put which piece of cork (each one is different), altering the angles you use (sloping back away from the front, toward one side), aligning the bark grain, etc. However, you don't have to waste time figuring out what to coat it with. Plants love it and it is plenty rough for frogs to go straight up with no difficulty. The sphagnum in the gaps allows roots to penetrate into the background. Tree fern fiber mostly because I like the look and shinglers love it. As it becomes harder and harder to source, though, I am going to have to find a good alternative for it someday, I fear. This combo has a natural look that I favor, takes very little time and is frog safe. 

For infrastructure, I tend to use Manzanita branches and cork rounds (filled with sphagnum at the ends). These provide great attachments sites and, again, look good until the moss covers them (at which point anything looks good 

Ok, that's where I am in my viv-building journey. How about you folks? Any cool new materials you have learned to use? Any techniques for setting up the infrastructure? Do you have a completely different design/build philosophy? I would love to hear what you have learned!

Sorry about the rambling wall of text, but hopefully you stuck with it long enough to get the gist 

Mark


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## Brad_ (Aug 13, 2016)

Good points to think about as I start my very first build. I have very limited access to cork bark, so I have to use a combo of foam and cork, but maybe I'm over thinking things already. 
I've even seen some really nice vivs with no background, more focused on the internal arranging of hardscape items.


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## Saluqui (Sep 25, 2015)

After just seeing Encyclia's tanks in person, yesterday..He knows what he's talking about.. His Vivs are packed with plants, but don't look "over done"..Not using the expanding foam leaves room for a deeper look ( in my opinion)..I think he does use it for help anchoring a specific branch when needed.-- Saluqui..


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Saluqui said:


> After just seeing Encyclia's tanks in person, yesterday..He knows what he's talking about.. His Vivs are packed with plants, but don't look "over done"..Not using the expanding foam leaves room for a deeper look ( in my opinion)..I think he does use it for help anchoring a specific branch when needed.-- Saluqui..


Thanks, Tim! I used it in a few of my earliest tanks (the only example I have left is my Leucomelas tank). I don't use it in any of my more recent builds. I anchor all of my infrastructure with silicone and hide any excess with sphagnum. I sometimes have to use a long coated screw or similar to anchor things directly to the cork back ground, especially while the silicone dries.

Mark


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

I only have 2 builds so I'm far from an expert. I spent a ton of time with GS on my first build. The wood placement in the GS looked great while I was building, but I learned a hard lesson once it was up and running that light and water have a hard time getting to the bottom. This became worse as the upper plants began growing and covering a larger area. There was a lot of overthinking and wasted time/energy that went into my first background.

I used cork on my second build and decided not to go fancy with the basic background. I have 2 small knobs of wood that are part of the background on opposite sides of the tank. Frogs use these for hanging out/lookout perches and I use them for mounting a few small plants. The "infrastructure" as you put it is several pieces of wood that create different "highways" for the frogs to travel. They just lean on the background and are stacked in a way to allow frogs to follow different paths around the tank or change direction as they hop from one log to another. This also creates several "bridges" with shaded areas underneath. Moss is the main plant on many of these branches with a few orchids. I spent a lot of time on this one planning the wood placement and keeping line of sight (or lack thereof) for maximum frog enjoyment. All in all, I think I spent a total of one hour making the background, but went back and forth trying different pieces of wood until I found the right combo.
I absolutely love the texture of cork on the background. I used a little GS to hold it in place and covered it with ABG mix. Everything in the tank seems to love it and it looks very natural.


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## Brad_ (Aug 13, 2016)

Saluqui said:


> ..Not using the expanding foam leaves room for a deeper look ( in my opinion)..


This is something I have to rethink now, my tank is 30" front to back and keeping that depth would go a long way in giving it more dimension.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Brad_ said:


> This is something I have to rethink now, my tank is 30" front to back and keeping that depth would go a long way in giving it more dimension.


*I am going to refer to the front to back dimension of the tank as width since I am so used to talking depth when we are talking about lighting from the top 

It's great to think this way, but with a tank that deep the amount of width (front to back) that a background takes up is far less on a percentage basis. Even a big, thick, ham-fisted effort at a Great Stuff background (I am speaking from experience, here) wouldn't be much more than 6 inches thick on average. In a tank that is less wide, say 12", that would be 50% of your total width. That is a lot and keeping that closer to 2" would make a big difference. With 30" of width, though, that same 6" background is 20% of your total. Not too bad. Not only that, but if you cut it back to only 3" of background, you have only reduced it by 10%. Again, not much of a difference. I think with the width you have, you can get away with much more thickness in the background. 

An extreme example is a 10 gallon I bought off of Craigslist way back when. This thing had a water feature in it that required that it have an especially thick background. It worked pretty well, actually, but with background thickness, the width of that tank was reduced from 10" to less than 6". That was a huge difference. There was very little room to put plants and for the frogs to move around. In a tank that small, the thickness of the background is really important...

Mark


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## Brad_ (Aug 13, 2016)

Fair point. I will have to use some foam, and my plan was probably 4" at it's thickest, so not terrible as far as real estate goes


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## alyon7 (Jun 12, 2012)

Do any of you use the cork insulation background technique?


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## Knap_123 (Sep 13, 2016)

I'm new to this hobby. But did I waste alot of money on cork ? Would 1 or 2 pieces of been better? And some filler? I'm dissapointing myself thinking it will be unviewable in short time.


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## Calebrh (Jun 7, 2016)

Knap_123 said:


> I'm new to this hobby. But did I waste alot of money on cork ? Would 1 or 2 pieces of been better? And some filler? I'm dissapointing myself thinking it will be unviewable in short time.



No not a waste. It still takes time for plants to fill in. You can also use that vertical space to attach air plants, train vines to go the way you want, maybe even attach on a little shelf of 2.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Calebrh said:


> No not a waste. It still takes time for plants to fill in. You can also use that vertical space to attach air plants, train vines to go the way you want, maybe even attach on a little shelf of 2.


I'd agree. I also think it's 6 in 1 half dozen in the other. More cork requires less great stuff. So you spend more on one and less on the other, or vice versa. Sure GS is cheaper, but at the end of the day it's probably not a huge difference. 

My main concern is how to build a viv for the long haul. With as much time and money that is already tied up in mine; I sure as heck don't want to have to tear it apart and redo it a year or two down the road. That's where I think less GS and more hardscape will come in handy.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Alter Ego Trip said:


> I'd agree. I also think it's 6 in 1 half dozen in the other. More cork requires less great stuff. So you spend more on one and less on the other, or vice versa. Sure GS is cheaper, but at the end of the day it's probably not a huge difference.
> 
> My main concern is how to build a viv for the long haul. With as much time and money that is already tied up in mine; I sure as heck don't want to have to tear it apart and redo it a year or two down the road. That's where I think less GS and more hardscape will come in handy.


I have had good luck with these backgrounds in the longer term. I have a few that have been set up for over 2 years and have had zero problems. 

I will say that I don't prefer to use GS in my tanks anymore. I did have a couple of GS backgrounds that held up for over 5 years. They started to look a little ragged toward the end, though. The silicone layer and the pressed-in substrate (peat moss, ABG, whatever) wears away fairly quickly in my experience. 

I like to use the sphagnum-cramming method for filling in the gaps mostly because the roots of the climbers can penetrate so much deeper into the sphagnum than GS (and the cork part of the background). The roots just go along the surface of these parts, where they actually sink into the sphagnum. Even if I want to tear out some of the plants on the background, I can always just cram fresh sphagnum in when some of it comes out with the old roots. Since there is no glue involved in the sphagnum part, it is really easy to redo if I ever had to. 

Mark


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## viper69 (Dec 28, 2013)

I'm just starting out in PDFs, for now only research. No stranger to owning herps including Neotropical frogs.

However I'm new to making vivaria seen in PDF setup. 

After reading this post I doubt I will use GS now. I thought GS would be perfect, not now.

As a big user of cork myself, are you using food grade silicone to adhere the cork to the glass? What brand? 


Ultimately I'll be making a setup for some Leucs in an ExoTerra believe the size is 18x18x24


This post has giving me much to research about- thanks!!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

It's not that GS is not great, it's just not needed in my tanks. For some purposes, though, it does a great job. 

As for silicone, food grade would be fine, but might be unnecessary. You just want to avoid silicones that use an organotin curing process. The most common one that I would recommend avoiding is GE Silicone II. Silicone I is great, though it is hard to find in black (hard, but not impossible - there is another thread from the last couple of days where I think carolla said that you can get it shipped to your local True Value store for free). I order mine from:

CRL 33S Silicone Sealant - 10.3 Fluid Ounce Cartridge | PKsupplies.com

It comes in clear, black and bronze. 

Best of luck on your first build,

Mark

Edit: I just got to this thread (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/295970-cheap-aquarium-silicone.html). That's a great price!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Just a thought but for bromeliad using species if using larger enclosures you may want to consider patchy placement of plants with empty space between the plants as this is closer to what occurs in the wild. This can actually encourage more natural behaviors in how the frogs establish and maintain territories and calling sites. 

One of the things people tend to try and accomplish in the hobby is to cover as much of the background with plants as possible and this really isn't how environment the frogs live is set up. This would also reduce the issues of having to keep cutting back plants to prevent them from overgrowing and smothering other plants (well unless your doing a wabi kusa) sort of enclosure. 

some comments 

Ed


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## viper69 (Dec 28, 2013)

Encyclia said:


> It's not that GS is not great, it's just not needed in my tanks. For some purposes, though, it does a great job.



Thanks for the information. I'm curious what is it about your tanks that doesn't require it, yet for other tanks it would be good?

What's the criteria you used to make such a decision to use GS or not?


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

viper69 said:


> Thanks for the information. I'm curious what is it about your tanks that doesn't require it, yet for other tanks it would be good?
> 
> What's the criteria you used to make such a decision to use GS or not?


I think that if a person was going to make a really complex hardscape, GS (or some equivalent) would be almost necessary. I am thinking of people that want a waterfall in their tank or hardscape that leans out away from the back wall. Stuff like that. For the reasons in my first post, I have decided that I don't need or want that stuff in my tanks. 

Mark


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## Fishtank100 (Oct 16, 2016)

Very thought out! I just finished a tank last weekend I did all silicone back and 7" on the sides I put the piece of cork bark on the back (pressed into the silicone) and a piece of mopani wood on each side also in the silicone. I've had very good luck with it but it's a lot of work. The one I did last month I did a cork bark back with silicone on the sides also with mopani wood.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Fishtank100 said:


> Very thought out! I just finished a tank last weekend I did all silicone back and 7" on the sides I put the piece of cork bark on the back (pressed into the silicone) and a piece of mopani wood on each side also in the silicone. I've had very good luck with it but it's a lot of work. The one I did last month I did a cork bark back with silicone on the sides also with mopani wood.


Somebody else's thinking, though. Blame Pumilo (Doug) for most of these ideas (maybe some of them were upstream of him, but that's where I saw them). His tanks were awesome. The plants just loved his designs and I have tried to emulate him where I can.

Your tank looks great! Keep up the good work 

Mark


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