# Silicon turning water green



## Iwillfinish (Jun 8, 2012)

When siliconing, I was always surrounded by papertowels to wipe the excess onto, and some of the papertowels were damp. Whenever silicon was wiped onto a wet paper towel, the wet part would turn greenish once it cured. I just recently had a decent amount of water sitting in my (not complete) tank, with the silicon exposed. Once I dumped out the water, it became clear that the water was green! Not totally green of course, but it was all green tinted. 
The silicon I used was "GE silicon II black"
Has this happened to anyone before? Should I be concerned?


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

The dye used to make it 'black' is actually a very dark shade of green. The same is true in many textiles and in the print industry. It appears that some of the dye is separating from the silicone in your case. I did a quick search on the product you are using and I am concerned. http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/ge-silicone-ii-185453.html The OP's issue is frightening. When I looked at the specifications on several vendor sites, it states that it is mildew resistant, which throws up a huge red flag.


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## Aqua tropics (Mar 31, 2012)

is the silicone you used 100 o/o silicone ? I reseal lots of tanks using black and clear silicone in my business. And it does not turn the water green. You can have an algae bloom that will turn the water green.


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

Aqua tropics said:


> You can have an algae bloom that will turn the water green.


OP said that the paper towel he was using to wipe up excess was turning green. This is indicative of the dye in the silicone.


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## Iwillfinish (Jun 8, 2012)

I don't have anything living in the tank yet, only silicon and greatstuff, so I seriously doubt an algae bloom. It's also 100% silicon. 
THis thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/11280-black-silicone-ii-now-has-bioseal-5.html has a whole back and forth debate on weather or not it's safe, with no real verdict. I seems like people say that the mildew/mold suppressant is just a marketing thing, but people want to stay away from it. No one has said anything about it turning water green, which is weird. It seems like if if it happened to my tank, then surly someone must have had this problem before?


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I avoid usign Silicone II for this very reason. Always use Silicone I which is not supposed to contain Bioseal. There is rumor it may also contain it. There are other 100% pure silicones out there, used in the aquarium industry, black and clear, but they can be a little expensive. Research Research Research before you use anythign in your vivs.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

well i just bought three tubes of it from NEHerp sooo.... idk what to do I just wasted $20 i guess. could I test it by siliconing something and running under water and seeing if it leaches dye? i'm hoping I don't have this problem or I will be very annoyed and angry.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pdfCrazy said:


> I avoid usign Silicone II for this very reason. Always use Silicone I which is not supposed to contain Bioseal. There is rumor it may also contain it.


The marketing for "Bioseal" is secondary to the real purpose of the problematic chemical. The issue is from the organotin which is added to the silicone to change the way it cures. In silicones that contain the organotin, the material does not release acetic acid (the strong vinegar smell) instead it releases ammonia. People often prefer to use the GE II product since the threshold for irritation for ammonia is lower than that of acetic acid. So if it smells like very strong vinegar it is safe. If it doesn't, then it contains the organotin regardless if it is labled as having Bioseal or not...... 

Not as an endorsement but black silicone can be purchased here Glasscages.com - Aquarium Sealant or through here Aquatic Eco-Systems: Koi - Silicone Aquarium Sealant 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Iwillfinish (Jun 8, 2012)

Mine smelt strongly of vinegar when I applied it. I also don't even see the tube saying anything about bioseal. 
Any verdict on why it's green? It being a dye makes sense, but I don't know why no one else has seemed to have this problem before.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Iwillfinish said:


> Mine smelt strongly of vinegar when I applied it.


If it smelled strongly of vinegar, then it was NOT GE silicone 2. GE Silicone 2 has the organotins in it, and it smells like ammonia, rather than vinegar. GE Silicone 1 is the product without organotins.


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## chuck norris (Oct 30, 2012)

I recently used black GE Silicone ll and it HAD a strong vinegar smell. None of mine has ever leached color but different batches seem to have drastically different cure times. Probably other factors involved also but haven't noticed with other silicones.


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

Iwillfinish said:


> Mine smelt strongly of vinegar when I applied it. I also don't even see the tube saying anything about bioseal.
> Any verdict on why it's green? It being a dye makes sense, but I don't know why no one else has seemed to have this problem before.


Was it causing this BEFORE or AFTER it had cured?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

chuck norris said:


> I recently used black GE Silicone ll and it HAD a strong vinegar smell. None of mine has ever leached color but different batches seem to have drastically different cure times. Probably other factors involved also but haven't noticed with other silicones.


Whether you think it smelled like vinegar or ammonia is subjective, and not really the point. It's simply a clue or guideline as to the curing agent used. The point is that GE Silicone 2 *DOES* use organotins in it. GE Silicone 1 *DOES NOT* have organotins in it.
In the end, if you want to risk the organotins or not, is up to you. I am simply stating that GE Silicone 2 DOES have organotins in it. Personally, I choose NOT to use GE Silicone 2 in any of my builds.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

curlykid said:


> well i just bought three tubes of it from NEHerp sooo.... idk what to do I just wasted $20 i guess. could I test it by siliconing something and running under water and seeing if it leaches dye? i'm hoping I don't have this problem or I will be very annoyed and angry.


just realized i said "running under water" *facepalm*


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

chuck norris said:


> I was just pointing out it could be the GE silicone 2 even if it smells like vinegar. I'll take your word for it on the orangutan's.


Actually, no, it doesn't smell like vinegar... You may not recognize the odor but it doesn't.... 
The reason is because the siloxanes are catalyzed by the oraganotins into long chain polysiloxanes with the release of ammonia. In the GE I, the polysiloxane chains are formed with a different catalyst with the resulting release of of acetic acid hence the odor of vinegar.... You can pay for access to this article which explains it in detail Organotin catalysts in organosilicon chemistry - Cervantes - 2012 - Applied Organometallic Chemistry - Wiley Online Library .... 


The formulation of organotins used in the GE II formulations are well studied and have as a side effect, toxicity to fungi (hence the anti-mildew) claims but also can act as endocrine disruptors in other animals (and some are also toxic..). 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Iwillfinish (Jun 8, 2012)

Is the main concern of the silicon it's possible harmful effects on frogs? At this point I can't get frogs, but I was definatley considering it later. If all else fails, I can turn this into a plant only tank, although this doesn't exactly help everyone else. 
From what I understand, many people use GE silicone II, is this correct? I was under the impression that many people used it and were concerned, but nothing ever really came of it. The link I posted earlier about the bio seal concerns was from 2006 or so, so I figured any serious problems would have already been brought up. 
Grrr.... Stupid silicone


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## Iwillfinish (Jun 8, 2012)

Tinctoc said:


> Was it causing this BEFORE or AFTER it had cured?


After. I noticed the green on the paper towels after it haven there a few hours. I might try and test some stuff out tomorrow and see how long it takes


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I can see (or smell) how the scent of ammonia and vinegar could be confused and hard to differentiate.  The green or black dye is likely the least of your concern. Once the silicone has cure, they dye "should" not be able to be leached, or very minimally. If your are planning on poutting frogs in this Viv, I would avoid usign GE Silicone II. I know NEherp is one of our sponsors....but I would ask if you can return it to them personally. If your fine keepign it a plant only tank...go for it I guess, but I'd rather keep my options open.


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## Iwillfinish (Jun 8, 2012)

I think it should be ok for plants, since it's not really coming into contract with it. I have a pond section in it that I want fish in, and I doubt they'll take kindly to the water. I might try convering it all with drylok since its supposed to be water proof. Any thoughts on covering it with Drylok?


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