# Please help my new frog!!!



## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

So I went to my local fish store today to buy some stuff for my reef. In the back corner of the store I found these two Aratus. The store does not deal in PDF's so I was very suprised to see them. They did not know anything about them at all!! The enclosure was an inclosure set up for lizards or something. No cover and little humidity. They were putting large crickets in for food. I was instantly sad for these two frogs. They had them priced at 69 each. I offered to rescue them for $69 for both and they jumped on it. They seem a bit skinny to me. What worries me is the spot on the one frogs head. WHAT IS THIS? I plan on quarantine till i figure it out and then if they do well putting them in my new 20gln for a while. They both ate ff's when I got them home although the one with the spot ate less. He did eat however.

I know this isnt the best way to go about getting new frogs since they had no idea of the line or even where the frogs came from. Plus Im not sure if they are even healthy. I just felt bad and felt compelled to rescue them. If anyone can offer advise on what might be wrong with this ones head please help????? Here is a pic....THANKS!


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

To describe it a little better...it appears to be a round spot of tissue recession if that helps at all.....?????


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

First of all - I've got to give you props for rescuing them. Good work.

Second, you should keep these frogs as isolated from the rest of your collection as possible. In another room preferably, in another section/floor of the house, ideally.

Then I would send your pics to either Dr. Frye or Dr. Wright.

Best of luck with them.


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

What store was this from?


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## Protean (Dec 27, 2007)

paying for animals is not rescuing them. paying for animals is giving them reason to not improve their husbandry.


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

Protean said:


> paying for animals is not rescuing them. paying for animals is giving them reason to not improve their husbandry.


OK. Thanks for the help! Way to be!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Send a pic of that frog to Dr Frye. Here's a link to his site. You can get his email from there. I've dealt with him and found him to be very prompt and friendly.

Frye Brothers' Frogs

Nice looking frogs. Hope they get better.


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

frogface said:


> send a pic of that frog to dr frye. Here's a link to his site. You can get his email from there. I've dealt with him and found him to be very prompt and friendly.
> 
> frye brothers' frogs
> 
> nice looking frogs. Hope they get better.


thank you!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You are welcome 

Since it's Friday, don't be surprised if you don't hear back from him until Monday morning. Just keep the frogs comfy in the meantime.


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

I'll send the pics to the doc.... But does anyone want to take a stab at what it might be?


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## fishieness (Jun 26, 2009)

You say it was set up for lizards. Out of curiosity, do you know how much UVB the bulbs had?
Good luck with the little guys.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

As suggested...possibly tissue recession. 

Def dead tissue...possibly from a cricket wound. 

That issue is secondary to getting them proper humidity, dusted FF and low levels of stress.

You're good on all the other emergency health treatments that should be done? Temps, humidity, supps ect?


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

Philsuma said:


> As suggested...possibly tissue recession.
> 
> Def dead tissue...possibly from a cricket wound.
> 
> ...


Yes on all that. Temps are at 78, humidity is 90 and I alternate dusting ff with caclium and herptivite. I am putting them in the quarantine tank now so they have some room and cover.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Cool.

I think you did the right thing by aquiring them from that store.

Jason makes a good point in not patronizing stores that continually stock animals in less than decent conditions but this instance does not seem to me to be a case like that.

If that store got a hold of these frogs and it's a one time issue where they were not informed on care - then theres some mitigation that we can apply. The pet stores and big chains that _continue _to try to sell animals without a care on husbandry......that's all too apparent and unforgivable.


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

Philsuma said:


> Cool.
> 
> I think you did the right thing by aquiring them from that store.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. There is another local FS that routinely does not take care of thier livestock and I just dont go there because its horrible and I feel the same way about them as was stated. In the case of the frogs though....this was, or seemed to be, an instance where not much thought was put into the purchase of these animals. When they didnt sell they were just put in the back and forgotten about. I paid probaably close to what they paid so they didnt make money and they said that they probably wont order them again. So in that respect...I felt like the only thing to do was give them a chance. This fish store is very reputable in the reef community. I think they might have learned a lesson on the frogs. I hope so anyway.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

Philsuma said:


> Cool.
> 
> I think you did the right thing by aquiring them from that store.
> 
> ...


But if the frogs died in the store the owner probably woulnd't aquire anymore. Now that the frogs were sold he might say there's interest in these ad buy more.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Take as many pics as possible from different angles to email to Dr Frye, observe how much they're both eating, try to set them up as stress free as possible (lots of hides etc), might as well collect fecals Sunday to send on Monday also. If you email pics tonight, you might get an answer tomorrow morning - I think he's open a half day or something Saturdays, call in the morning to see if he got them.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

jeffr said:


> But if the frogs died in the store the owner probably woulnd't aquire anymore. Now that the frogs were sold he might say there's interest in these ad buy more.


That's why I said, if it was a one-time thing.....we could apply some mitigation.

I assumed the OP was local to the store and that in his opinion, this was a one time occurance. It seems that way as reported by him.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

Philsuma said:


> That's why I said, if it was a one-time thing.....we could apply some mitigation.
> 
> I assumed the OP was local to the store and that in his opinion, this was a one time occurance. It seems that way as reported by him.



Agreed but my point was he might have changed it from a one time thing by buying them. I'm sure he didn't have these very long or they probably would have been dead already. So now in his mind its, "look how fast these animals sold." Maybe I should start stocking them.


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

jeffr said:


> Agreed but my point was he might have changed it from a one time thing by buying them. I'm sure he didn't have these very long or they probably would have been dead already. So now in his mind its, "look how fast these animals sold." Maybe I should start stocking them.


And you would let the frogs die to make that point?? Would you let the mistreated elderly in a nursing home die when the home just wants a little more money to improve care? or would you pay the money and file a complaint??? I think I would relieve the shop of the responsibility, warn them that they don't know what they are doing and keep a watch on them.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

And you would let the frogs die to make that point??

Its not about making a point. Would you rather see a few frogs die or hundreds? What if this store owner goes out and buys 20 frogs now? What do you do, buy them as well thinking you're saving the frogs? 


I had a pet store owner yell at me and ban me from his store because I told hin his husbandry was all wrong regarding his chameleons


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

It sounds like a lot of "ifs" are flying around on this post. I think you did the best you could in the situation. I highly doubt the store will buy more when he had to sell both at the price he wanted for one but again that is another "if" I don't think that is what this post was asking for he wanted help with the frogs not a bunch of what ifs just help him out.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

No idea what it is.

I applaud you for wanting to help the frogs out... but usually if you buy frogs in that kind of condition you're just supporting pet stores mistreatment of frogs.

You definitely want to quarantine them and I'd highly recommend putting in some larger springtails in with them.... I'd get fecals done on them as quickly as possible as well.... I think it's more important to do that with frogs from stores than frogs from other breeders. Especially when they're skinny. When they're skinny if they have parasites it's very difficult to get them to make a comeback.

Good luck with them. I hope they make it!


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

-Jex- said:


> It sounds like a lot of "ifs" are flying around on this post. I think you did the best you could in the situation. I highly doubt the store will buy more when he had to sell both at the price he wanted for one but again that is another "if" I don't think that is what this post was asking for he wanted help with the frogs not a bunch of what ifs just help him out.


THANK YOU JEX! Your exactly right. What happened here is I took two frogs from a store owner who didn't know what he got into. He said himself that there was no interest in them and that he wasn't going to buy anymore. He made NO money and it wasn't worth the effort. I did the RIGHT thing and don't need reassurance of that. I will bet my next paycheck that there won't be 50 PDF"s in his store next week. I Just need opinions on how to make the frog healthy.


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

I must also add that during the time I spent in the store talking with them about the frogs, I tried to educate them on the proper care of the animals. Essentially I'm saying that I let them have it! I critisized the enclosure and feeding and general care. I didn't just say "yeah!!! PDF"s. Give me one!". I assured them that they weren't healthy and needed care or they were destined to die. That's about all I could do! Then I bought both of them for what they were asking for one and now I'm giving them a chance at least. I understand the concerns but never thought that it would been seen as a bad thing to do! A bit dissapointed I guess.


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## bshmerlie (Jun 2, 2010)

Dendroboard has a reputation for attacking members in posts. HighFyfr didn't get his frogs into this situation he's simply trying to get them out of it. He asked for help on that... give he a break and offer advise to get them better and be done with it. Instead the poor guy is probably feeling bad about even posting in the first place.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey, I found a great page about emergency frog first aid for you. I'm new on Dendroboard and don't know all the bylaws...Since it is on a different forum about frogs, I will pm the link to you. Basically, they recommend using ordinary neosporin as a temporary treatment until he can be seen by a qualified Vet. It is a great article that goes into treatments for MANY different problems. Check your pm.
Doug


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Hey, I found a great page about emergency frog first aid for you. I'm new on Dendroboard and don't know all the bylaws...Since it is on a different forum about frogs, I will pm the link to you. Basically, they recommend using ordinary neosporin as a temporary treatment until he can be seen by a qualified Vet. It is a great article that goes into treatments for MANY different problems. Check your pm.
> Doug


Very very appreciative!!!!!


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

The frogs are in a 29 gln temp quarantine tank with lots over cover. Today they have been very active and eating very well. They look good and im remaining hopeful and I'm greatful to those who have posted to help. Thank you and I will keep thier progress updated.


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## MichelleSG (May 1, 2010)

I've heard phoenix worms are a very rich food and are good for frogs that need the extra boost. You might try getting a hold of some.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Remembered something else from way back when, for you. Fruitfly larvae, (maggots), are higher in fat than adults. Put a dozen or so on a deli cup lid, magnolia leaf, or something like that and see if they go for it. Some of my frogs loved them, but others ignored them. If they take them, it's a great way to fatten them up.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

ChrisK said:


> Take as many pics as possible from different angles to email to Dr Frye, observe how much they're both eating, try to set them up as stress free as possible (lots of hides etc), might as well collect fecals Sunday to send on Monday also. If you email pics tonight, you might get an answer tomorrow morning - I think he's open a half day or something Saturdays, call in the morning to see if he got them.


OK did you do any of this? What was his answer?


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

highfyre said:


> So I went to my local fish store today to buy some stuff for my reef. In the back corner of the store I found these two Aratus. The store does not deal in PDF's so I was very suprised to see them. They did not know anything about them at all!! The enclosure was an inclosure set up for lizards or something. No cover and little humidity. They were putting large crickets in for food. I was instantly sad for these two frogs. They had them priced at 69 each. I offered to rescue them for $69 for both and they jumped on it. They seem a bit skinny to me. What worries me is the spot on the one frogs head. WHAT IS THIS? I plan on quarantine till i figure it out and then if they do well putting them in my new 20gln for a while. They both ate ff's when I got them home although the one with the spot ate less. He did eat however.
> 
> I know this isnt the best way to go about getting new frogs since they had no idea of the line or even where the frogs came from. Plus Im not sure if they are even healthy. I just felt bad and felt compelled to rescue them. If anyone can offer advise on what might be wrong with this ones head please help????? Here is a pic....THANKS!


Thats awesome. I would have done the same thing. My wife would kill me but at least the frogs would alive lol  +Thanks
Wish I could help but I am too much of a newbie...
Like there coloring.... If they make it and breed I will get some froglets from you. Not only because they are good looking frogs but to help pay off some of that 69$ + cost of reviving them...


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

ChrisK said:


> OK did you do any of this? What was his answer?


Ok. I sent pics and email to Dr. Frye this morning. Waiting to hear back.

The frogs seem to be doing well. They are eating well and suprisingly bold. They have both come out from under cover today twice when I got near the tank. They jumped right up on a log in the middle of the tank and ate. Im doing my best to keep them fed and stress free as much as possible. So I will keep doing this for now. I might try the ff larva trick and see if they will eat that to. I will post what I find out from the doc. Thanks to everyone who has helped.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Sounds good so far, just keep up with that as long as the food isn't stressing them out, collect fresh fecal samples tomorrow because guaranteed you're going to need to send them Monday (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/36848-collecting-sending-fecals-examination.html), and be prepared to order some medications after he sees the pics.


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

I heard back from Dr Frye today. He said the spot on his head appeared to be an infection from possibly a wound. He said to treat it with Silversulfadiazene which I happened to have on hand. I applied some with a q-tip which I plan on doing daily for a while.

The frogs seem very happy and are eating like crazy and very active and bold. I plan on sending in fecals also. So....so far so good! I am very grateful for all the help I received.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Great to hear that they are doing so well!


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

Thats awesome.


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Good to hear. It's so depressing to hear that a store would not be equipped to have dart frogs. Anytime I see a frog in such distress and harm I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing in purchasing them... support of the horrible store be darned. 

Post some update photos when you get a chance!


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

So how's the Spot doing? has you seen it start to heal the last couple days? Are the frogs still eating well and putting on weight?


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## AaronAcker (Aug 15, 2007)

any update pictures?


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

AaronAcker said:


> any update pictures?


No new pics. need to post some. But they are doing fantastic! They look great and seem to be getting some meat on the ol bones! They eat like crazy so I feel good. They are very bold and active. 

I have been putting silvadene on the affected frog daily. I dont know if the spot has reduced in size but it has def not worsened. He has def become more active. He eats alot and I feel real good about how he is doing. The two hang together constantly and are never apart so Im hoping for a pair. 

I put them in my new 20gln viv today. I probably got ahead of myself but I dont really care. If I have any issues with them I can easily tear it down. I couldnt stand the thoughts of having them in the crappy quaratine tank when they had the nicer tank to call home. It has grown in very nicely and is doing well and just calling for frogs to live in it! 

I still want to do fecals and when time allows I will. But all is good and Im very excited and attached to these guys already! I will post pics soon.

Thanks for all the help. And I will also go further to say that it feels great to get on here days later and see that people on here care enough to ask how they are doing. Its warming to know that there are people in the world who can see past themselves. THANKS GUYS AND GIRLS! I love this forum!


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

highfyre said:


> The two hang together constantly and are never apart so Im hoping for a pair.


I hope they are a pair. I meant what I said. I got dibs on some of the babies! 

Thanks for the update. Good the spot is not getting bigger and that they are putting on weight. that should always be a good sign. I just wanted to check back in with you on how they are doing.

(Pssst... I would have jumped the gun put them in a planted viv too... I am sure they would feel more "secure" in one... and good looking frogs like those need good looking viv's...)


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## highfyre (Feb 19, 2010)

Just an update. Here it is a few months later and these frogs are the FATTEST HAPPIEST frogs ive ever seen. The frog with the spot on his head has done great and the spot seems to pretty much be healed over. Thanks sooooo much for all of your help!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Nice!

Glad everything turned out well.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

need pikshurs


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

Nice to hear a happy ending! I'm glad to see that those PDFs ended up with someone as dedicated as you. We need more people that are willing to go the extra mile to save these guys.


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## inflight (Jun 12, 2007)

Glad they are ok. I had 2 auratus (from a pet shop) that had the same exact thing on their heads. They didn't fair so well and quickly died. Im glad to know that you had better results. It would be nice to know what it was though that caused it.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

highfyre said:


> Just an update. Here it is a few months later and these frogs are the FATTEST HAPPIEST frogs ive ever seen. The frog with the spot on his head has done great and the spot seems to pretty much be healed over. Thanks sooooo much for all of your help!



I just read this thread and happy to read this post! Congrats on the healthy frogs, all your hard work and generosity paid off.


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## AnacRoNoxX (Apr 3, 2010)

Tip of the hat to you sir! I admire your empathy.


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

highfyre said:


> I'll send the pics to the doc.... But does anyone want to take a stab at what it might be?


Flesh wound?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Phyllobates azureus said:


> Flesh wound?


Hah! 

Hey Highfyre, I'd love to see updated pics of your frogs. They have beautiful coloring.


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

frogface said:


> Hah!
> 
> Hey Highfyre, I'd love to see updated pics of your frogs. They have beautiful coloring.



I didn't realize that comment was old.
Anyway Highfyre, congrats.


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## rob65 (Aug 27, 2009)

Protean said:


> paying for animals is not rescuing them. paying for animals is giving them reason to not improve their husbandry.


Give him/her a break! I would of done the same thing!


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