# New Pumillio not eating, but calling a lot



## Blacktengu (Apr 19, 2020)

1. What species ? oophaga pumillio 'Boca Colubre' How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? 4 days, local breeder

2. What are your Temperatures -Day and Night: 68 - 74

3. What is the Humidity like ? 95% What type of Water are you using ? RO Describe your tank/enclosure and it's lid or top. 40 breeder front open. glass top.

4. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it ? dendrocare, theres a little dust left over. What superfine powdered supplements are you using and are they fresh ? I have eggrite, dendrocare, and ranarium cartenoid plus they are fresh.

5. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently ? Tankmates / other frogs ? 4 that grew up together. 1.2.1

6. Any type of behaviour you would consider 'odd' ? They hang out in bromeliads and call a lot. only one of them goes around and explores. the rest hide and seem disintrested in food. lots of flies left over

7. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays ect near the tank ? nope

8. Can you take pictures of EVERYTHING ? The frogs, the enclosure ? Take numerous pics of everything

https://imgur.com/PdyC2C1

https://imgur.com/6aU1anJ

https://imgur.com/1a3jl3G

https://imgur.com/4esjzWd

I have added a 120mm computer fan on the right side of tank. they hang out mostly on the left in that brom.

Thanks!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I don't keep Oophaga, but: there isn't much cover in the viv, and not nearly enough leaf litter. They could be freaked out because they feel exposed, no where to get safe.

Also: what is the ventilation in the viv? Sounds as if it is sealed up, which isn't good.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Nice to see my template being used!

4 days is a TINY amount of time to judge eating ect.

Pumilio sized frogs can easily go a week or even two without any food (if they are robost to start).

As long as no frog is skinny or lean, then I would not worry.

They will eat, and you may not see it for a long time.

I'd make sure the lighting is not too harsh - like high heat / and or High output.

I'd resist poking in there or unduly messing with them.

Pumilio are best kept 1.1 extra females are not recommended (by me). So that is something I would address a little bit down the road if I were you.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

It can take certain frogs weeks to a MONTH before they are comfortable to be out and about, especially when you are inches away from the viv.

Patience...takes a while.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Just saw you last pic of the viv.

You need a LOT more foliage in there ASAP.

Frogs should not have been placed in there as it's nowhere near grown-in properly.

I'd line some cork bark panels or tubes in there for hides - like 3-4 different ones.

I'd buy a pothos or other large leafed philo ect and cut a bunch of branches and just throw them in there or pin them to the background.

Looks a little wet and humid. You don't want 95% humidity - 70-80 is better. With occasional hand spraying.

Local breeder should have given you some advice on all this.


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## Blacktengu (Apr 19, 2020)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I don't keep Oophaga, but: there isn't much cover in the viv, and not nearly enough leaf litter. They could be freaked out because they feel exposed, no where to get safe.
> 
> Also: what is the ventilation in the viv? Sounds as if it is sealed up, which isn't good.


Thanks for advice! I have more plants coming in to put in the foreground and shade out some. the bottom and top brackets for sliding doors have a bunch of holes in them. I have one giant 120mm fan to circulate air, but i have 2 smaller ones coming I'm gonna put one each side to blow out the viv, hopefully this forced air can help with air circulation. Most of plants dry within 2 hours after misting atm.


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## Blacktengu (Apr 19, 2020)

Philsuma said:


> Just saw you last pic of the viv.
> 
> You need a LOT more foliage in there ASAP.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the advice Ill def add more foliage. In the back right you'll see a giant cork bark tube. its pretty far back sunk back into the background so its fair that you could not see it. They hide in there most of the time. It starts from the entrance on the floor and goes up to the top left.


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## Blacktengu (Apr 19, 2020)

Philsuma said:


> Just saw you last pic of the viv.
> 
> You need a LOT more foliage in there ASAP.
> 
> ...



That was actually a photo about 1month ago from when i seeded the tank, but let me know if this is still not enough foliage. updated pics below. I have about 13 plants coming in on wed.

https://i.imgur.com/y2pNxOd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QDOA70e.jpg


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

use 3-4 cork panels or 'slices' propped against the back laid end on end not flat or substitute tubes same way - vertical not Horizontal.

pumilio are going to stake out their own areas and you need to have, literally a separate area - brom, cork tube, large plant for each one in a separate area of the viv.

so in your case, you want a 'hide' area in each corner and then two more near the middle.

That's the safe way to play it- 4 separate areas that each frog can retreat into if it desires. Never make them bunch up. Provide nice 'equal' areas for them.

You want the areas to provide a visual barrier as well. If they see each other = possible stress.

Down the road, the best way to mitigate all this is 1.1, or 1 male and 1 female.


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## Blacktengu (Apr 19, 2020)

Philsuma said:


> use 3-4 cork panels or 'slices' propped against the back laid end on end not flat or substitute tubes same way - vertical not Horizontal.
> 
> pumilio are going to stake out their own areas and you need to have, literally a separate area - brom, cork tube, large plant for each one in a separate area of the viv.
> 
> ...


Gotcha! luckily I have an excess of cork bark. Thanks!


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

The frogs look good. As mentioned, they probably ARE eating, and you might not be catching them in the act.

I would also agree that you need some more leaf litter or ground cover on the bottom of the viv. Loose dirt can stick to frogs and irritate them. It's also possible for the frogs to accidentally ingest a large clump of dirt, leading to impaction.


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## Blacktengu (Apr 19, 2020)

Update I catch them eating a lot and out now. I added a bit more plants and leaf litter. Now time for plants to grow in. I'e gotten the humidity to drop too low 80s at night but still working on drilling more holes to get it to drop 70s. Ive added two internal fans on each side compared to the giant external one. plants seem to enjoy the dry out period at night also.

https://imgur.com/a/RDlaykZ


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Nice frogs .
Enclosure looks nice too.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Blacktengu said:


> Update I catch them eating a lot and out now. I added a bit more plants and leaf litter. Now time for plants to grow in. I'e gotten the humidity to drop too low 80s at night but still working on drilling more holes to get it to drop 70s. Ive added two internal fans on each side compared to the giant external one. plants seem to enjoy the dry out period at night also.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/RDlaykZ


Yes, proper ventilation and getting that humidity to drop will also be great for your plants. It also swings open the barn doors of the types of plants you'll be able to keep.

Bare tanks and hiding.
People sometimes think that removing hides will allow them to see their frogs more. Exactly the opposite is true. You don't see them because they feel insecure. They don't see anywhere they can hide if they need to. They more hides you add, the more secure they feel. When you and your viv finally reach a point where they feel cover is never more than about 2 hops away, they will be much more bold. Basically, if you put hiding places everywhere, your frogs won't feel they need to use them. 
A good pumilio or thumbnail vivarium should be well on the way to an overgrown jungle.

Until your plants grow in more, you could consider a handful or two of black film canisters strewn about the floor and/or mounted to walls. Try to find some Magnolia, or Sea Grape leaves to mix into your leaf litter. They are both huge leaves that make a nice, roomy, secure cave to hang out in.


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