# Media



## Drew (Nov 9, 2006)

Of the various media that are commercially available any one have any preferences? I am looking for media for both hydei & melanogaster. With 4 growing terribilis and 5 choc leucs I am going to have a lot of mouths to feed. Any help is appreciated.


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## kiltboy1675 (Feb 28, 2007)

josh's frogs media, it smells just like cinnamon.


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## pyro4fun (Jul 27, 2007)

I have used ED's fly media and now im trying Josh's.
Ed's fly media gave me large blooms but didn't smell to good.
I can see and smell a difference already the larva are larger in josh's media, I have not seen a bloom yet to see if the amount of fly's is better or not yet tho.


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

I use Josh's and I love it. It smells good and it produces very good.

Curtis.


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## Drew (Nov 9, 2006)

Thanks for the replies!


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I think it's kinda funny because I've actually had opposite experiences, where Josh's out smelled Ed's! I've also had AZDR mix outsmell Ed's, and cases where some Ed's cultures smelled and others didn't... realize that it also has to do with what fungus gets in the cultures... some recipes grow different fungus and molds differently so the fungus where you leave may determine how the media smells in the end. 

If you're only looking to keep one media around to keep it simple, or if you're mixing hydei and melanos together in one culture, make sure you are getting the right media from your supplier! Make sure the stuff you get is for hydei, or else your hydei won't do so well... something to keep in mind for suppliers that have multiple media mixes (Ed's has a special hydei mix). Carolina biological supply also carries a decent mix (often forgotten since most of the sponsors sell their custom mixes now too) that works for hydei as well. 

You may want to experiment because you may find that due to how you parituclarly culture, a differnet media may work better for you than what is displayed as popular in the responses.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

In keeping with Corey's note that different people have different experiences, I use the same media for my hydei as I do for my melanogasters, and both do very well. Some people seem to notice a difference in using hydei-specific media while others don't.



KeroKero said:


> Make sure the stuff you get is for hydei, or else your hydei won't do so well... something to keep in mind for suppliers that have multiple media mixes (Ed's has a special hydei mix).
> . . . .
> 
> You may want to experiment because you may find that due to how you parituclarly culture, a differnet media may work better for you than what is displayed as popular in the responses.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

It depends on what the media is made from... hydei do have different (or rather, additional) nutritional requirements, and many medias have this already built into them, such as Carolina. Never hurts to ask tho, because if the media wasn't developed for hydei in mind your hydei may eventually suffer and may crash! Home made recipes are often developed using and for melanogaster, so they may be hit or miss with hydei.

With some companies, such as Ed's, they may offer more than one type of media. Melanogaster only media is cheaper to make than media that contains the extra ingredients needed for hydei... so if you don't culture hydei, no point in paying the extra. My melano only cultures still get straight melano mix (ok, they get Ed's enhanced, but still) while my mixed cultures and straight hydei get hydei mixes. If a significant amount of melanogaster are done, you may save a few bucks down the road. The media isn't hydei specific (melanogaster do just fine on it) as much as just having a few extra ingredients the hydei need that aren't present in melanogaster only media. Hydei media can be used for both species, while hydei will not do well on melanogaster media.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

KeroKero said:


> It depends on what the media is made from... hydei do have different (or rather, additional) nutritional requirements, and many medias have this already built into them, such as Carolina.


We used the Carolina media for melanogasters back in the 80's for killifish, and never had any luck with it. Maybe the formulation has changed, but it was expensive, and production was pathetic. This may just be another one of those instances where different people have different results, but my father completely gave up on raising fruit flies after the poor results from Carolina mix and the hassle and smell of using a pablum/banana mix described by Jorgen Scheel in Rivulins of the Old World. Once I started culturing fruit flies on my current media, and gave some cultures to my dad, he's now back to using fruit flies as his staple.

Take a look through some of the posts about fruit fly media, and see what results others have had. Some swear by using a hydei-specific media, while others have tried both and notice no difference. While I've never tried a hydei-specific media, I've never had reason to believe that it would make a difference for me, as my production is much more than satisfactory.




> Never hurts to ask tho, because if the media wasn't developed for hydei in mind your hydei may eventually suffer and may crash! Home made recipes are often developed using and for melanogaster, so they may be hit or miss with hydei.
> 
> With some companies, such as Ed's, they may offer more than one type of media. Melanogaster only media is cheaper to make than media that contains the extra ingredients needed for hydei... so if you don't culture hydei, no point in paying the extra. My melano only cultures still get straight melano mix (ok, they get Ed's enhanced, but still) while my mixed cultures and straight hydei get hydei mixes. If a significant amount of melanogaster are done, you may save a few bucks down the road. The media isn't hydei specific (melanogaster do just fine on it) as much as just having a few extra ingredients the hydei need that aren't present in melanogaster only media. Hydei media can be used for both species, while hydei will not do well on melanogaster media.


So, what is the specific additional nutrition that is added to melanogaster mix to make it a hydei media? Or does it have to do with ratios of nutrients that are already present in melanogaster mixes? If melanogasters do fine on hydei mix, then why don't we all just use a hydei mix?


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## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

I have also wondered what the additional ingredient is in the hydei mix. I still would reather buy pre-made mixes, but was just curious.


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Just some of my experiences so far... 

I've used Josh's regular melano media for hydei, as well as Ed's enhanced melano media to culture hydei and have not had any problems so far. This observation is based off many months of culturing.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Dave has posted the hydei nutritional information multiple times, I don't remember it off the top of my head. There is an important nutrient that melanogasters can produce themselves (and thus isn't needed in the media) that hydei are scientificially proven not to produce, so they need it in their media for long term robust culturing. This is IME after working with hydei since 2001 and trying to go the cheap route as often as I could :roll: 

I've never successfully cultured hydei long term in Ed's non-hydei media... the first few cultures would do ok, but I'd start seeing smaller body size, less reproduction, then all out failure of the cultures.

I doubt the Carolina media is the same formula as it did in the 80s, and I know plenty of froggers that still use it (a few mix it with medias from frog suppliers). Not saying it's the best, but definately not as bad as it used to be, and with other suppliers readily available they've probably had to drop their prices...



> If melanogasters do fine on hydei mix, then why don't we all just use a hydei mix?


As I stated before, the hydei mixes tend to be more expensive because of the added ingredient(s). If you don't culture hydei, it's probably not worth the extra money. If you culture good amounts of both (especially if you culture them together) it's probably easier for your sanity to just use hydei media. Like I said before... if you don't culture hydei (many froggers don't bother since they are trickier) then don't worry about it. Most of the popular frogs in the hobby don't need hydei (or even prefer hydei for that matter).


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## Drew (Nov 9, 2006)

I basically need hydei for my terribilis. I have been using Josh's hydei mix for a few weeks but I have yet to 'use' one of those cultures (they still need some more time). I will say that I have seen pupae earlier than i have with the other media that I was using. Use to take closer to 3 weeks for that, not even two weeks and there are already quite a few pupae on the sides of the container.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

This link will show what melanogaster requires in thier diet 

http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/33/1/45.pdf

I couldn't find a free pdf of the article that discusses hydei but I think it is in The nutritional requirements and growth relations of different species of Drosophila (see http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi- ... 1&SRETRY=0 )

I cultured both melanogaster and hydei on the same media (a modified carolina mix) with good success but I had the best success for hydei when I cocultured them. I didn't save it but there was at least one paper that indicated that this could be a benefit for hydei. 

I have doubts about different media speeding up pupation times as this is typically due more to temperature (and different times of the year and different medias (due to fermentation processes) can change the temperature of the media. 

Ed


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

*Ed wrote:*


> I cultured both melanogaster and hydei on the same media (a modified carolina mix) with good success...


Could you please explain how the carolina mix is modified and what the potential benefits of the modification are?

Thanks,
Mike


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I mix it about 10 cups of the carolina mix with the following 8 cups potato flakes, 1/2 cup brewer's yeast, 1 cup of powdered sugar. I tend to make my cultures up at 8 large (32 ounce) cultures at a time and when I mix it up I add about 1/2 tablespoon of spirulina to the media and if there are any over ripe banana's around I'll throw that in as well (more to keep from wasting it, than any possible benefit). 

The spirulia increases the protien level in the media (as does the brewer's yeast) which is one of the limiting factors in growth in the culture. However the addition of too much protien is a problem because it can increase the demand for other nutrients like B vitamins which can then decrease production in a culture. 

Ed


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Ed,

Thanks for the info - I'd like to try to ammend future cultures. I think at the small quantity I make spirulina would be difficult to incorporate without a good scale handy. Maybe a sprinkle would work for one culture? I wouldn't mind trying potato - would raw potato do? Is the addition of potato and sugar meant to increase the nutritional value or increase FF production (both)?

Thanks,
Mike


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Mike,

If you add enough spirulina to make it a very very pale green then you probably haven't added too much.. 

The potato is the base of the media (a source of starch which as it is broken down supplies sugars to the yeast and starch for the ff larva. Some people use baby cereal or oatmeal as other bases for the media (but a lot of people use potato flakes because you can get them cheaply in bulk). The sugar is the intial food source for the yeast to get them going as well as increasing the osmotic potential of the media (which can reduce some of the potential contaminants that can get established). 

Raw potato would not work well as the cells are all intact (unlike in the freeze dried flakes) which reduces the availability of the starch. Use the instant potato flakes for it. 

Also as you culture flies through multiple generations, the flies and yeast will adapt to your culture conditions.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Ed,

Thanks again for the explanation. I'll have to try that some time - I'll let you know how it goes.

Mike


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