# Pumilio loosing color fast, please advise!



## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

i have a trio of O. pumilio " red bastimentos" that i got only a few weeks ago, was able to sex them from day two supprisingly its a group of 2.1.0 so the other male was seperated from the pair and put in his own viv. he is doing great. the other two are the ones i am worried about.

the frog in question is the male that was kept with the female. he has been calling off and on from day one almost 3 weeks ago straight and is very active and very well fed. i have not gone one day without hearing him at least 3 times. but only a few days ago i noticed his colors had faded dramatically. i wasnt to concerned as i figured he was interrupted while shedding because other than color nothing had changed, he still calls all the time (durring day) and has not shown a lack of appetite. but i dont think that is what was going on. and its getting worse fast. i have some side by side pics taken with the same camera on the same settings under the same light so you can see how different the frog looks.


*BEFORE and taken the day after i got them*












*TODAY around 4 PM*











*BEFORE and taken the day after i got them*












*TODAY around 4 PM*












so thats the pics of him. the female has not faded or changed at all in any way and seems to completely ignore the males calls.

the only two thoughts i had were the mold inhibiters in the silicon (which i was told were actually harmless) and unfortunately there is a possibility of a bubble of uncurred silicone as this tank was put together rather quickly as the one they were supposed to go in was broken only a half a week or so before i got the frogs in. i cant smell any silicone at all and i let it all dry for 48 hours before even adding anything (dirt false bottom plants and so on) 

yeah i know the tank is way inmature and should have been grown in for a month or more as the one they were supposed to be in was  but i am hoping this isnt the problem


so i am really really hoping someone knows what to do i havent run into this problem before. and if i have to scrap this tank as well if something unknown is polluting it will it be ok to put all three pums in the same tank until i can get another one going? please let me know anything you can think of and all opinions as well


Thanks alot
-Keith


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I'm guessing that the previous owner supplemented with naturose and/or paprika, and you do not. With supplementation, the colors should come back.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

that is one thought, i will have to shoot him an email (patrick nabors) thanks


but i cant help be worried still and would like further opinions


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## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

Thats odd, I agree with Zbrinks he was most likely colorfed, beautiful fros tho.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Link3898 said:


> that is one thought, i will have to shoot him an email (patrick nabors) thanks
> 
> 
> but i cant help be worried still and would like further opinions


yeah definitely email but while you're waiting for a reply dust the ffs with paprika and see if it doesn't drastically change


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Red bastis throw goldust, orange, yellow and red. They are sometimes red or orange as juvis and turn golddust. That one looks like it`s turning golddust.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

frogfarm said:


> Red bastis throw goldust, orange, yellow and red. They are sometimes red or orange as juvis and turn golddust. That one looks like it`s turning golddust.


I agree, Aaron. Coloration shifts does not necessarily indicate a health issue.

Link,I would recommend Naturose over paprika.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I would not expect to see much of color shift if the frog is supplemented with paprika as the red carotenoids in paprika are polar and are not absorbed very well at all.. 
Paprika has been used for a long time by some people with a limited amount of success. 

Some of the color shifts in anurans can be due to enviromental responses and do not have to indicate toxicity issues. I would suspect toxicity if the frog was not acting normally or feeding however you indicate that it is still calling and feeding so I would lean away from that thought for the moment. The color shift could still be due to enviromental effects, I would inquire if the frogs were allowed to have access to UV lighting that wasn't filtered through glass. 

As others have indicated this can also be due to normal color shifts over time in this morph of pumilio. 

Ed


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## GSXR_MURRHEE (Sep 16, 2006)

Sounds like what happened to a young mancreek I had not too long ago. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...atment/33989-what-would-cause-loss-color.html

Unfortunatly it died and I never did find out for sure what caused it, but stress was a good bet. Silicone had nothing to do with mine, as he was in a big tub with only sphagnum and leaf litter. Hopefully your's does better than mine. Good Luck.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I am pretty sure Pat does not use any color supplementation, and if he had the color loss would be very gradual not overnight or within a couple of days. If the frog is acting completely normal other than the color I would not do anything other han observe. I would ask Pat if anyone had experienced this before and see what he says, he is without a doubt one of the best vendors we have when it comes to customer service.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

what is your enclosure like? lighting? size? well planted or not? can we get some pics?


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

yeah i will dig for some pics, its a 20 vert, 65 watts of compact flourescent of some sort and kept at 76 deg F with probally 90+ precent humididty as the sides are all condensed and dripping. its not overly planted but i havent noticed the frogs acting shy at all, and there is a fair amount of leaf litter in the bottom which i add sprintails to twice a week. leme go find those pics

i asked pat if he color feeds and he does not. i didnt ask about the UV though, hadnt crossed my mind

thanks alot for the help so far guys/gals its awesome


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

Alright here are some pics i took today and a few days ago.

sorry theres alot

the first pic is the female thats in with him (is she just fat?)












These two shots of the male in question were taken today about 30 min ago




















this pic was taken only 7 days ago you can see how fast the color has changed










here is the light i use on the viv (500 watt equivelant output screw in flourescent 65 watt outdoor floodlight) duno the proper name and term so that works











all the plants in the viv



























































































and this is growing where the pool was supposed to be (liverwort? hornwort?)










and heres the overall


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

It`s just changin to golddust. I had a thread about a year ago w/ pics on this. The red and orange that go goldust usually retain that ring around the brown. Thay`re spectacular morphs, not really golddust, ringed golddust maybe.
Ask Sportsdoc for pics of his adults.


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## osn (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm having the same troubles with my Christobals. It's very sad but I havn't been able to find something that works at them. It's also not all my christobals that loose their red color. Some individuals stay deep red, but most of them get more brown


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## rjmarchisi (Feb 16, 2004)

Is it just me or is 500 watts of light a little overkill and that is perhaps the frogs adapting to the higher light conditions? From the shots of the tank there doesnt seem to be much growth and plant cover for them to hide under, avoiding the bright lights. Why dont you do a test and use alot lower wattage bulb in the hood and see if they redden back up, no harm in that.

rob


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

rjmarchisi said:


> Is it just me or is 500 watts of light a little overkill and that is perhaps the frogs adapting to the higher light conditions? From the shots of the tank there doesnt seem to be much growth and plant cover for them to hide under, avoiding the bright lights. Why dont you do a test and use alot lower wattage bulb in the hood and see if they redden back up, no harm in that.
> 
> rob



yeah if it was 500 watts that would be overkill but its 65 watts with a comparable output to a 500 watt incandescent bulb. the frogs havent been hiding at all and actually, the male that was sepirated from this pair is in a tank with a low watt regular fish tank strip light and he hides all the time and the tank is loaded with tons of plants.... 

and if you look again almost every plant in there has new growth, and for only being planted a few weeks (remember first tank broke) i would say its booming. all the roots in the broms have grown in within the week, the cobalt fern has several new fronds, the plant with broad green leaves and white veins has actually doubled in size, the paperomia prostrata has new growth on it and is rooted and the java moss has adapted to terrestrial growing. all the broms have new leaves starting and have colored up (they were green only a few weeks ago) and the riccia has taken hold of the wood its sitting on. that plant with the striped leaves thats growing upwards under the brom with the red base was a clipping and now its got several stalks and has grown about 5 inches.... 



i checked the frog again this morning before leaving and hes sitting on top of the tank calling with the female sittin next to him. i hope he is just shifting to gold dust as hes quite the character lol


again thanks for everyones input! its helped alot


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

alright i switched the light to a lower wattage on the tank and will watch to see if that has any affect. 

not sure what can be done about places to hide until it fills in more...

if i was to put 3-4 3 inch lengths of 3/4in PVC pipe in the leaf litter would they use it? i hardly ever see them on the ground, mostly hanging out in plain sight on the background or at the tips of the brom leaves


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

I would say a couple more broms in there on the background wouldn't hurt (sometimes they go behind the broms, in between the brom and the background), but if they wanna hang out on the ground, it looks like there's enough leaf litter in there for them to be cool, that plant in the ground helps too, my pums are usually only on the ground when they're in the mood for springtails


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

It`s not going to get their color back. This is what Bastis do.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

cool cool, so i can put the light back on? ( i wanted a bright light to grow the broms out nice and colorful)


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

If they are out and about and actively picking off prey, I don`t see a problem w/ it.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

i had to dig to find these. here is an red basti i had that turned golddust. you can really see it in his head. it turned almost completely gold-dust about a month after this picture was taken. the hole process to about 3.5 months and he still shows alittle orange here and there. hope this helps. as Aaron said if they are active healthy and eating, i wouldn't have cause for concern.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

hey those pics are really reasuring, thanks to everyone who responded its helped alot. lol i couldnt help but worry about poisoning from silicone or something since i had never seen one of these frogs (bastimentos) in person before and hadnt ever seen a frog shift colors that fast... well thats a sigh of relief since today they are acting the same as always calling and eating, and the female is ballooning up so i wonder if shes packin eggs... 

and my azureus just laid their first eggs last night.... woo! thats a whole new batch of questions lol (for a different post)


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