# Scale insects on broms



## gregadc (Mar 16, 2011)

Hi All
Was wondering if any of you came up with EFFECTIVE and FROG SAVE way of getting rid of this little suckers scale insects off your broms?
Got quite bad infestation on few plants and I'm REALLY frustrated about no being able to save my plants.
Any long term lasting solutions?
Thanks in advance

Untitled by gregadc, on Flickr 
greg


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

You can take them out and wash them in a 5g bucket of water with a small amount of mild liquid detergent like Joy or Dawn. Use something plain with no antibacterial stuff or fragrances. Rinse well then soak in another 5g bucket with about 2 1/2c of bleach (to make a 5% solution) for a few minutes. Rinse well again and give the plants a good drink by soaking them in fresh water for about an hour before putting them back.

Only problem is you can kill them off the plants but they are probably already in the tank and will re-infest your plants.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Get ready. The plant people are going to tell you to rip that out of your tank, douse it in gasoline, and, set it on fire. I agree with them though.


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## gregadc (Mar 16, 2011)

Frogface you know how to cheer me up!!!
Do you think bag will go only for broms or will move onto ferns,ivies etc
Thanks Jared for the starting point.
g


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think they'll move on until your tank is infested. Maybe wait for the experts to say.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I recently took in two frog vivs a local was giving up. They both had scale. These tanks are maybe one year old. Scale is everywhere. Let me elaborate on everywhere. Under the substrate on the glass. One the backside of every piece of cork bark in the viv. At the base of every piece of ghost wood. Inside of the moist, dark crevasses in the ghost wood. Each and every piece of leaf litter in the viv is covered with scale on the underside.
If scale is down in the leaf litter, and under the substrate, I don't see as treatment to the broms themselves would help. As soon as you put them back in the viv, the scale will move back to them.
Sorry. I know that's not what you wanted to hear.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

gregadc said:


> Hi All
> Was wondering if any of you came up with EFFECTIVE and FROG SAVE way of getting rid of this little suckers scale insects off your broms?


In a word, no. At least not one I can find. You can pull it out and clean the scale off, but it will return. The internet is full of accounts of using neem oil, but I can't figure out how to do that safely in place. There have been some investigations into using parasitic wasps to clear out an infestation, but I haven't heard any rousing success stories yet. I've had 4 different tanks get brom scale over the years, and I suspect it was a different critter each time as their attacks ranged from mild to violent. The good news is that IME they don't usually move on to other plants. I've never had them infect one tank from another, either. When they have struck I've just let the broms die and started replacing them with crypts, which they haven't touched.

By the way, I would love to be wrong about this. I hate brom scale! I've got a 10g vert that I ended tearing all the plants out of and putting in the freezer in the garage. Hopefully that will "sanitize" the tank furniture...we'll see.


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## gregadc (Mar 16, 2011)

What about idea of removing frogs,removing manually as much as poss scales,sealing the tank off and injecting it with ridiculous amount of CO2,let's say overnight?-just a quick thought...g


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> I recently took in two frog vivs a local was giving up. They both had scale. These tanks are maybe one year old. Scale is everywhere. Let me elaborate on everywhere. Under the substrate on the glass. One the backside of every piece of cork bark in the viv. At the base of every piece of ghost wood. Inside of the moist, dark crevasses in the ghost wood. Each and every piece of leaf litter in the viv is covered with scale on the underside.
> If scale is down in the leaf litter, and under the substrate, I don't see as treatment to the broms themselves would help. As soon as you put them back in the viv, the scale will move back to them.
> Sorry. I know that's not what you wanted to hear.


I'd agree. You can kill them off the plants but they are in that tank and will find their way back to the plants and infest them again. Thats why you want to clean all plants before putting them into your tanks.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If you only see them on that brom, it might not be too late to pull the brom and save the tank. I had scale on one brom, tossed it, and no scale has shown up in the tank since. This was about 6 months ago, I think. I wouldn't wait for them to get crowded and find new plants to chew on, though.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

gregadc said:


> What about idea of removing frogs,removing manually as much as poss scales,sealing the tank off and injecting it with ridiculous amount of CO2,let's say overnight?-just a quick thought...g


I don't believe it will kill the eggs.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

gregadc said:


> Hi All
> Was wondering if any of you came up with EFFECTIVE and FROG SAVE way of getting rid of this little suckers scale insects off your broms?


Step 1) Take the frogs out.
Step 2) Take the tank outdoors
Step 3) Blast the tank with a flamethrower.
Step 4) Feed the frogs.
Step 5) Repeat Step 3...


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

My experience with scale in vivaria has been that they seem to be plant species specific. I've (personally) never seen bromeliad scale infest another species of plant in the same viv. Most of the time, they won't even touch others genera of bromeliads. This is not to say they won't, I'm just saying I've never seen it.

I find it interesting that Pumilio found scale in the soil and on dead leaves. I can only assume it was because they had no where else to go. Most of the time, you find mealy bugs in those areas rather than scale. That viv would have been in the dumpster for sure if I woulda got it. 

I would *think* multiple CO2 blasts would work. Do one and then repeat it a couple times a week or so apart to kill off hatching eggs. Probably would create quite the plant growth explosion too. Someone give it a whirl and report back.


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## gregadc (Mar 16, 2011)

Thats exactly what I was thinking about thanks for that
Will let you know..
Now who's good in breeding cycle of scale bags?
How long does it take for eggs to hatch in average temp?


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

This might be worth a try Greg,i suspect it might be worth removing the frogs as they might see the new beasties as muchies

Defenders - Safe Effective Natural Biologist Pest Control for Gardeners

I'll leave others to advise on safety issues
good luck 

Stu


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

Unfortunately, I've had my share of scale over the years. Some thoughts based on my own experiences...

1) scale coincides with improper cultural conditions: usually keeping a brom too wet or placement in a pocket that doesn't free drain

2) aechmea's are scale magnets in terraria 

3) usually doesn't transfer over to other brom's unless they are already declining (see point number 1)

4) removal and replacement of brom often gets rid of the problem

5) manual removal of scale with a moist washcloth or paper towel is annoying but effective. 

6) If its a brom of particular importance and cannot be replaced easily,I'll remove it and manually remove the scale with a towel dipped in rubbing alcohol and give it a good rub down. Ill place it in a temporary enclosure so it can recuperate. Then I usually contemplate it's placement more carefully, if I seek to return it to the original enclosure

-JB


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

andersonii85 said:


> Unfortunately, I've had my share of scale over the years. Some thoughts based on my own experiences...
> 
> *1) scale coincides with improper cultural conditions: usually keeping a brom too wet or placement in a pocket that doesn't free drain*
> -JB


Interesting. The local guys vivs that I tore down that were absolutely filled with scale was way too wet! He had 2 inches of totally saturated sphagnum moss on top of his substrate! Everything was extremely wet and the viv was obviously over misted and had WAY too much sphagnum on the substrate.
I guess there is a popular on line tutorial that he watched. It says to put sphagnum moss on top of your substrate. I always thought that was a really bad idea and the results certainly don't change my mind.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

andersonii85 said:


> 1) scale coincides with improper cultural conditions: usually keeping a brom too wet or placement in a pocket that doesn't free drain


In my experience I think a more accurate statement would be "Scale coincides with the introduction of scale into the tank", although you are no doubt right that improper cultural conditions really exacerbate the problem quickly.

It's splitting hairs, but the reason I say so is that I have a wall of tanks that all have the same internal conditions (dart frog damp), but only two of those have scale, and it moved pretty quickly in those (I may be labeling something as scale that technically isn't though as the creatures appear to have a "flier" stage). I have a display tank that is much drier than my other tanks and while it moved much slower, the scale has really decimated the broms there as well. 

Incidently, one of the reasons JB and I have had slightly different experiences, I suspect, is that JB is much more proactive about treating the scale when it first shows up, whereas I kinda' give up and stop throwing neo's in an infected tank. 

JB, out of curiosity, if I have a tank that scale "de-bromed" a few years ago, but have had no broms in it sense, is there ever a time when I can try again or will there always be scale in there?


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

*Identifying Scale Plant Insect*

Scale is a problem with many houseplants. Scale insects suck sap from plants, robbing them of essential nutrients. Scale insects thrive in warm, dry environments. The scale bug is small, oval and flat, with a protective tan to brown shell-like covering (scale). Scale generally targets the undersides of leaves and around leaf joints.

The scale plant insect consists of three types:
•armored scale,
•soft scale, and
•mealy bug.

The armored and soft scale bug is the most destructive. Armored scales are more difficult to control once mature. Soft scale bugs excrete large amounts of honeydew, which enables the growth of sooty mold, a black-colored fungus that interferes with photosynthesis. Mealy bugs are easier to control. Scales cannot fly; therefore, dispersal depends on the movement of crawlers. Crawlers may be detected by placing double-sticky tape on plant branches.

*Scale Insect Control*

Scale-damaged plants look withered and sickly. Leaves turn yellow and may drop from the plant. They may also have sticky sap or a black fungus on the leaves and stems. Heavily infested plants produce little new growth. If scale insects are not controlled, death of infested plants is possible. Scale insects are invasive and will infest other plants so move infested plants away from healthy ones.

Several well-known remedies can be used to eliminate scales from a houseplant. However, there is no easy cure for a scale bug infestation. One possibility is to pick off or gently scrub them loose from the leaves and stems. Dabbing each scale with an alcohol-soaked cotton swab is another possibility for lightly infested plants. There are also numerous chemical products available for the control of scale bugs. Insecticide sprays for houseplants are available at garden centers. Spray applications should be timed to coincide with the crawler stage, which is most susceptible to insecticides. Insecticides must be applied thoroughly each week for a month or more for the greatest results.

For heavy infestations, it is sometimes best to throw away infested plants.

*Homemade Control of Plant Scale*

Many people prefer to use homemade control of plant scale. Insecticidal soap is a safe and effective alternative to conventional insecticides. You can bleach free dishwashing liquid (1 1/2 teaspoons per one quart of water) in place of commercial insecticide soaps. Homemade control of plant scale can also be achieved with oil spray. Mix two tablespoons of cooking oil and two tablespoons of baby shampoo in one gallon of water. This can also be mixed with one cup of alcohol to help penetrate the insect’s shell.

If a fungus is also present, add two tablespoons of baking soda. Test the spray on a small area of the plant, beforehand and wait 2-3 days, to check for damage. Do not spray plants in the sun or on hairy or waxy-leaved plants. Shake well before and during application. Spray every 5-7 days as needed, covering both sides of the foliage. Wash the leaves individually with the soap/oil mixture and rinse well.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Another website:

Scale are tiny parasitic insects that adhere to plants and live off the plant’s sap. They look like bumps and are often mistaken for a disease. There are some 7,000 species of scale insects, varying greatly in color, shape and size, usually ranging from 1/16 - 1/8 inch.

Scale are usually divided into 2 groups: soft scale and armored scale. Soft scale are covered with a protective waxy substance and are somewhat easier to kill than armored scale, which secrete a hard shell over their bodies for cover. Mealybugs are also part of the scale family.

Scale eggs are laid under the female’s body. They are called crawlers when they first hatch, because the nymphs have legs at this point and crawl off to find their own spot to attach and feed. Control measures are most effective during the crawler stage.

Different species favor different plants. Plants frequently infested with scale include: Euonymous magnolia and fruit trees and shrubs

Control of Scale

•Indoor Plants: Remove scale by rubbing gently with a facial quality sponge dipped in rubbing alcohol. The alcohol alone should kill the scale, but the dead insects will remain on your plants and make it difficult for you to scout for new infestations. The small facial sponges, found in the cosmetic aisle, are abrasive, yet soft enough to use without scraping the plant stems. 


Be sure to buy plain sponges, without cleanser or lotion in them. As always, test on a small area first, since some plants are more sensitive than others.


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## gregadc (Mar 16, 2011)

Thank you all for the help and interest,really appreciated.
Stu,you idea about wasp is just crazy!!!
I think i'll give it a go,maybe not just yet....
infection in the viv I am the most concern about is not so severe yet 
I will try to removed broms for a while replace with some big Anubias coffefolia and one day try to re-introduce the broms...
...I remember way back reading "something"about bleaching broms and me thinking ..what the these people are about?
Now I know..
Have you plants free of worms!Regards.g


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

andersonii85 said:


> Unfortunately, I've had my share of scale over the years. Some thoughts based on my own experiences...
> 
> 1) scale coincides with improper cultural conditions: usually keeping a brom too wet or placement in a pocket that doesn't free drain
> 
> ...


there's a recent thread called "the war on scale" about someone trying to go the biological control route, and it didn't seem to pan out well, from what I recall.


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## holidayhanson (Apr 25, 2007)

I had scale break out in my viv and tried to remove broms and clean them off, soak them over night and then replace them. They would be scale free but slowly the scale would return. Eventually this scale spread to all the broms in my tank and I was losing the battle. The broms would get thin spots and sunburned after I had wiped or scraped the scale off to aggressively.

I noticed that I did not see the scale anywhere else in the viv. So as a last resort I removed the scale host....I removed all my broms. My thought was I would remove the envronment that allowed the brom to reproduce. My tank was bromless for about 8 months or a year. 

I have introduced new broms to the same tank and so far I have not seen any sign of scale return. These new broms have been in the tank for 5-6 months now. 

This has been my experience. It is frustrating. But I think maybe this has worked for me.

I am about to click submit reply, walk over to my tank and see the scale has returned while I wrote this post. 

Good luck on the battle everyone!


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

Take them out, treat with malathion, once all the scale is gone for good, wait a few monts and replace. This is the only pesticide I've had luck with.

Let me be clear, give the plants several months frog free so the frogs will not be exposed to the malathion. Also, do this outside and follow instructions! This stuff is strong smelling.


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

I had t jump from a brom to a prized birds nest fern. 




Frogtofall said:


> My experience with scale in vivaria has been that they seem to be plant species specific. I've (personally) never seen bromeliad scale infest another species of plant in the same viv. Most of the time, they won't even touch others genera of bromeliads. This is not to say they won't, I'm just saying I've never seen it.
> 
> I find it interesting that Pumilio found scale in the soil and on dead leaves. I can only assume it was because they had no where else to go. Most of the time, you find mealy bugs in those areas rather than scale. That viv would have been in the dumpster for sure if I woulda got it.
> 
> I would *think* multiple CO2 blasts would work. Do one and then repeat it a couple times a week or so apart to kill off hatching eggs. Probably would create quite the plant growth explosion too. Someone give it a whirl and report back.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Blue_Pumilio said:


> Take them out, treat with malathion, once all the scale is gone for good, wait a few monts and replace. This is the only pesticide I've had luck with.
> 
> Let me be clear, give the plants several months frog free so the frogs will not be exposed to the malathion. Also, do this outside and follow instructions! This stuff is strong smelling.


Malathion is really brutal as you said. I can not stress enough that if a person use it, do PLENTY of fresh water baths after treating and give lots of fresh air for quite some time. The stuff is definitely toxic. I used to use it on my landscape Aechmea blanchetiana that we grew. Wiped out EVERYTHING.

To be honest, I would not use the stuff on anything intended for the viv period. It would be much better to get new plants instead.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

I see mealy bugs on some of my plants (outside and far away from vivaria)

Any way to insure that it never gets into my tanks?

Can I do a bleach soak after manually removing as many as possible?


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## frog guy (Jan 8, 2013)

I have heard that ladybugs can be used to control scale in gardens,, could this be an option??


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Ladybugs eat aphids only from what I understand


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## tzen (Nov 22, 2007)

This is the best discussion on scale I found, so I am adding my comments:

Scale will affect other plants besides broms. 
I can post pics. 
It probably does affect stressed plants worse, but I have had it t broms hard that have ideal conditions too. 
It is not hard to knock back with bleach or rubbing alcohol, but so far I am loosing the battle to eradicate it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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