# Loss of movement in rear legs. Need help.



## papafrogger

Hey all. Ill get straight to it. I found my sub-adult rio teribe laying flat on its stomach with its rear legs fully extended but limp. Overall the frog looks normal except for the legs. The frog in question and its younger tank mate have been acting completely normal all day. I have owned them for about a month now. I have them housed in a 5 gallon sterlite temp housing with sphag, lots of leaf litter, and a few plants. Temps havent gotten over 78°ever. I feed every other day dusted with repashy cal+ which i opened this month. I have never personally witnessed this frog eat a fly but have seen it hunting springtails all day. The frog is currently laying flat on its stomach and slowly dragging itself under the leaf litter. It seems alert but lethargic. I really cant think of anything at all that could have caused this. Since they went into the tank nothing has changed. No new plants. Nobody has bumped it. I only open to feed and the rarely needed misting. Anybody with any thoughts please let me know.

Im not good with turning thoughts to words so forgive me if this is a bit scrambled.

Also to add its tank mate is hiding at the moment since i opened the tank but has otherwise shown no problems. I dont really want to dig around to look for it but if i should ill do it.


----------



## that Frog Guy

Poor thing.

I hope he is OK.

I have never heard of that before but I am sure someone else can help.


----------



## oldlady25715

With dart frogs they sometimes have seizures, typically due to stress and/or a vitamin deficiency, that can incapacitate the hind legs.

I also had a uromastyx that lost the use of his rear legs temporarily due to vitamin D3 deficiency. I put him out in the sun and he's been fine for 4 years now.

For what it's worth, try to make sure its getting enough vitamin D3 is my suggestion. If it can't eat, I'm uncertian whether a vitamin bath would do it.... but it could be worth looking into.

Good luck.


----------



## Scott Richardson

2 frogs in sterilite container and only a few plants. I would bet excess co2 buildup


----------



## papafrogger

Scott Richardson said:


> 2 frogs in sterilite container and only a few plants. I would bet excess co2 buildup


This sounds like youre onto something. They tank does have a full glass top. Also now that i think about it the only thing that changed is i put a banana slice in there which is now well on its way to decomposing. There are a bit more than a few but all still smaller cuttings. Im guessing i should move them into a temp and add a vent to the top?

Edit: with the frog in the condition it is, what are the chances of it making a full recovery, and probabilty its tank mate is in the same condition?


----------



## Scott Richardson

Yes, I reread your op. You only open every other day. That is a problem. CO2 is heavier than air and settles. If she is laying on her belly legs straight back get her fresh air for awhile. 
You have two frogs in there giving off co2. Rotting leaves, and a bannana. 
Vivariums work because of a plant/frog balance. Plants remove co2. even with alot of plants airflow is vital to suspend the co2


----------



## Scott Richardson

depends on how long she was like that. fresh air may make her turn around. If he isn't like that, he should be fine.


----------



## papafrogger

You are officially my best friend. I found the other who seems fine. Moved them into a kritter keeper with some damp paper towel. I had blown out the tank a bit when i opened to see if the frog would move at when i first found it like that, and did the same when you said co2. When i moved them the one with limp legs gave a little hop, not much and still pretty weak but it is now supporting its weight and showing a bit of improvement. You may have saved some frog lives tonight.


----------



## Scott Richardson

Leave them in there awhile and mist the sides. They are stressed now, so sprinkle a bit of your cal+ on their backs and lightly mist them so they absorb it.


----------



## papafrogger

You saved my frogs lives man. I really appreciate your help. The effected frog is resting but otherwise doing awesome. I nudged it a bit and it started hopping no problem. Fully supporting weight on all legs. If you hadnt mentioned it i wouldnt have pulled them .


----------



## papafrogger

I drilled 2 1/2" holes in the front just above substrate level and 2 in the back near the lid covered with screening. Will that be sufficient to avoid this problem in the future?


----------



## Scott Richardson

Good to hear. Give her some rest and plenty of fresh air. 
CO2 is overlooked and not mentioned much. The vent on european vivariums that everyone says are there to clear the front glass were actually designed because the co2 being heavier than air will exit the vent. As the temp inside rises it will also pull air in and hot air is expelled at top which clears glass but it was designed to expel CO2


----------



## Scott Richardson

Yes, that should work.

Oh, opening it up for just a second every afternoon will give a good dose of fresh air. more plants will help as well


----------



## papafrogger

Thanks for all your help. Definitely a big eye opener. Now im going to get all my glass lids drilled for vents. You can see it here, vents can save your frogs life. Lesson learned, and thankfully crisis averted. Frogs are looking great. Should i wait to put them back in or give them just a while longer to be sure?

Edit: I figured i would brighten up this thread with a good thing from today
My first froglet to morph out. El Cope auratus.


----------



## Scott Richardson

She back to normal?


----------



## papafrogger

Yes sir. Full recovery. No signs of too much stress either. I think we caught it just in time. Lucky you caught it, none of my other friends/mentors guessed co2. Thanks again for your help, i cant tell you how grateful i am.


----------



## Scott Richardson

No problem. It was alot more of a problem back in the 80s and 90s. That is why as I mentioned the addition of the lower vent in european vivariums. I used to drill a row of 1/4" holes down each side above the substrate and cover with screen. 
Alot of people kept 3 males and 2 females as a breeding group so the CO2 levels were higher because less plants meant more open floor space. 
I also believe more people in the hobby today are tinkers, the viv is opened alot more tinkering with things so air exchange happens often.


----------



## Ultravincent

Scott Richardson said:


> Good to hear. Give her some rest and plenty of fresh air.
> CO2 is overlooked and not mentioned much. The vent on european vivariums that everyone says are there to clear the front glass were actually designed because the co2 being heavier than air will exit the vent. As the temp inside rises it will also pull air in and hot air is expelled at top which clears glass but it was designed to expel CO2


Scott,
What do you think about ventilation in an 18" Exo cube?
It has little air holes at the bottom + cracks between the front doors + 1/4" gap on the top glass lid... do you think it's enough aeration for a whole week?
I ask because I am planning a vacation...


----------



## Scott Richardson

Yes. You have ventilation with all the gaps. I assume you also have a good deal of plants. the exo has a bottom vent which is the holes.


----------



## that Frog Guy

Scott Richardson said:


> Leave them in there awhile and mist the sides. They are stressed now, so sprinkle a bit of your cal+ on their backs and lightly mist them so they absorb it.


Didn't know that.

Good to know.

Thanks.


----------



## that Frog Guy

I love a happy ending.

I am so glad your frog is doing better.


----------



## papafrogger

Me too!! Both are doing great and back to business as usual. This whole situation definitely put the importance of ventilation into perspective. Hopefully my mistake will help others in the future! Thanks to all for following along until the end.


----------

