# Great stuff / silicone background (DIY)



## Speg

I've been reading up on possible background constructions and this "Great Stuff" popped up a few times and it seems simple enough for an idiot like myself to use.

I'm just wondering how safe is this stuff going to be for frogs/bugs in the vivarium? I also may consider using this for Tarantulas as well..anybody know if any of these animals listed would be harmed by using this stuff?

Also, does it pass the test of time?

Thanks a lot!


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## JenniBee

I've built 3 vivariums using Great Stuff, and am currently about to start a 4th "big build". I love this product! There are several different kinds of Great Stuff. I use the green can that is specifically made for ponds. I will try and get a pic for you later on today.


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## JenniBee

Make sure you use a silicone base on the glass, or egg crate, for the great stuff to adhere to. Don't go all out at first with thick layers, use thin layers. You don't want to rush this process or the foam will shrink and delaminate/peel off. I've had this happen a few times because I was excited and rushing. It needs to cure for 24 hours before applying a second coat.


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## scapegoat

I put great stuff right on the glass and it is adhering just fine. After a couple days to allow it to cure I carved it up to get rid of the glossy rounded smooth surface. Then I smeared GE Silicone I all over it and pressed coco fiber into it. 

Looks great, and I can't wait to plant it tonight.


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## edgeofthefreak

GS is fantastic, but as with lots of materials, has it's own limitations.

I've used it in a few builds now, and yes it will adhere straight to glass, but only if the tank isn't soaked. I have a dripwall/waterfall made from GS, and the waterfall is technically not touching the glass anymore. The build is only a few months old. Another tank that is easily 4 years old, and fairly dry, will need a putty knife to remove the GS. It's holding on very tight in there.

Also, watch for expansion. As pointed out above me, use small thin amounts. If it has nowhere to expand outward to, it'll break glass with no issues. I filled up a 5gal, and it nearly filled it entirely. I was very lucky that it didn't break anything, but it couldn't cure the deepest parts. When I slid a knife into the area of uncured foam, it gushed out liquid foam (ruined THAT shirt) and started to cure again.

I'll likely always use GS in any future build, but I'm learning more about where to place it. My next major "wet build" will use the glass+silicone+light diffuser+great stuff, just ensure stability of the foam.

I second the notion for Pond and Stone GS, since it's black. Check the expiry, if you're able.


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## TheCoop

Could thousands of froggers be wrong :/, imo pond foam lays down much better without all of the hollow holes left by GS. I just finished my beast and used 11 cans of spray foam and a good amount of Tight Bond 2 as well as silicon, "i refuse to admit lol". This background is 48" x 48".


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## MR10C

I've just built my first paludarium using the black version and it worked great. It doesn't expand as much as the yellow one, which is nice. I do feel by itself it looks very artificial so I mainly used it to glue rocks together and build a tunnel to house my waterfall pump. I dremeled and sanded the still visible foam to make it look more realistic. None of it is stuck to the glass. I used parchment paper between the glass and the foam. It peels right of once the foam is dry and I can move pieces I used it on around easily while it still sits flush to the glass.


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## Speg

I had to special order the great stuff pond type but it should be in Friday. I also got some silicone GE 2 (black), but I guess I need to take it back for GE 1 (clear)? Hearing some conflicting reports on these boards as to which one is the actual safe one to use...the one I have is 100% silicone (GE 2 black)


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## vachyner

I'll second the pond stuff. It's much more forgiving on the eye in the event your silicone/peat mix is thin in spots. You can't tell with the black underneath, whereas if you get thin spots or miss something with the tan one it really shows.

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## Manzanitadude

Speg said:


> I had to special order the great stuff pond type but it should be in Friday. I also got some silicone GE 2 (black), but I guess I need to take it back for GE 1 (clear)? Hearing some conflicting reports on these boards as to which one is the actual safe one to use...the one I have is 100% silicone (GE 2 black)


Either will work, don't use clear to put your coco fiber over cause when it rubs off you will be able to see the clear gobs of silicone. Brown or black will work better. Just make sure it is fully cured before planting (no vinegar smell).


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## JenniBee

I've copied this from GreenOasis:

GE silicone II has bioseal which can be harmful to amphibians.
People that have used GE II may not see any differences but it's better to be safe than sorry.
GE II has organotins (bioseal) in it which can be harmful to fish and amphibians.

Quote from DB:
"What it comes down to is this. Will GE silicone II kill my frogs? Probably not. There is, however, evidence that organotins have been linked to egg failure and development issues (like spindly leg syndrome).
Organotins are present in GE silicone II.
Organotins are not present in GE silicone I.
Therefore, GE silicone II MAY present a danger to our frogs. GE silicone I does NOT present that possible danger.
You have to make your decision from there."

I use clear GE silicone I, that I bought in a 3 pack at Home Hardware for less than $12 Canadian, on the outside of my tanks before applying great stuff. I use stick on black contact paper on he outside of the tank to cover this. I use Gorilla Glue on the great stuff, then apply my substrate, and/or Spyra to that (instead of using silicone). If you go this route, make sure the glue is really tacky before applying anything to it.

Here is a picture of the 3 pack aquarium safe silicone from Home Hardware:


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## Encyclia

Speg said:


> I had to special order the great stuff pond type but it should be in Friday. I also got some silicone GE 2 (black), but I guess I need to take it back for GE 1 (clear)? Hearing some conflicting reports on these boards as to which one is the actual safe one to use...the one I have is 100% silicone (GE 2 black)


Yeah, to be safe, use GE Silicone 1, not 2. If there is any doubt about whether or not the product you bought has organotins in it, go by smell. The smellier it is, the better  The non-organotin cure method should smell a lot worse (vinegar-y) than the organotin version. It's when you need black (or brown) that the decision gets diffiucult because it is tougher to find these colors locally in something other than GE Silicone 2. It is not hard to find good black and bronze alternatives online, though. Ace Hardware's stuff seems to use the non-organotin cure, so you may be in luck if you have an Ace in town. 

Enjoy your build!

Mark


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## Dane

You can do all sorts of cool 'stuff' with GS. It can even be molded a little bit after it has skinned, but before it has dried.


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## Judy S

off topic--Dane--love those tanks...would really like a new thread on how you built those...how do they open? Such a clear unobstructed view....


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## Dane

Judy S said:


> off topic--Dane--love those tanks...would really like a new thread on how you built those...how do they open? Such a clear unobstructed view....


This thread may help: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/57910-cheap-quick-treetrunks.html. I have since moved away from using EPS sheet foam as a backing, as there have been concerns about it causing possible harm as an endocrine disruptor, but I still make most of my backgrounds this way.
The vivs pictured in my above post were still in progress, and didn't have their JungleBox vert conversions installed yet, so no doors, hinges, or vents in place.


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## Encyclia

Great technique. Any alternative suggestions for the backing material? 

Mark


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## Dane

Encyclia said:


> Great technique. Any alternative suggestions for the backing material?
> 
> Mark


I switched to thin acrylic/polycarbonate fluorescent light diffuser panels, the kind that are generally stocked near egg-crate material in DIY stores.


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## Encyclia

Dane said:


> I switched to thin acrylic/polycarbonate fluorescent light diffuser panels, the kind that are generally stocked near egg-crate material in DIY stores.


Ah, good idea. The ones with the little pyramids on them?


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## Judy S

well...that explains why they look so clear!!


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## Judy S

why the switch? Has to be a lot easier to cut for sure...


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## pako

Manzanitadude said:


> Just make sure it is fully cured before planting (no vinegar smell).


Yesterday I finished my diy background (foam-silicone-cocofiber) and after 24 hours I still smell the silicone. How long should I wait before I procced with the planting?


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## Fingolfin

Until the smell is gone, this could take 3-4 days or longer depending on how much you put on

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## nyskiffie

Encyclia said:


> Yeah, to be safe, use GE Silicone 1, not 2. If there is any doubt about whether or not the product you bought has organotins in it, go by smell. The smellier it is, the better  The non-organotin cure method should smell a lot worse (vinegar-y) than the organotin version. It's when you need black (or brown) that the decision gets diffiucult because it is tougher to find these colors locally in something other than GE Silicone 2. It is not hard to find good black and bronze alternatives online, though. Ace Hardware's stuff seems to use the non-organotin cure, so you may be in luck if you have an Ace in town.
> 
> Enjoy your build!
> 
> Mark


FYI, SIKA makes a slow cure 100% silicone that is black. I've used it for fish tanks and it is MUCH easier to work with since it has a much longer working time (probably 30-40min before it skins). 

I'll try to get a proper part number or something for everyone tonight.


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## Judy S

How safe is the Sika product in comparison to GE I??? Have you checked the specs for safety for fish & food??? I like the idea of more "open" time ...


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## nyskiffie

Supposedly no additives, no mold inhibitors, 100% silicone. I've sealed at least 4 or 5 aquariums with it and all have fish living happily in them. 

I believe if I remember correctly it is potable water approved but not food grade. That could easily be a testing thing though, that they haven't paid the money to have it tested to food grade specs.


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## Judy S

The only thing that ticks me off about using the Great Stuff is that if you only use a partial can...can't use the rest... If you are tipping a tank on a side to secure stuff...then when you want to tip the tank on the other side in a few days--have to use a new can of Great Stuff.....maybe I'm overlooking something---???


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## Dane

Judy S said:


> The only thing that ticks me off about using the Great Stuff is that if you only use a partial can...can't use the rest... If you are tipping a tank on a side to secure stuff...then when you want to tip the tank on the other side in a few days--have to use a new can of Great Stuff.....maybe I'm overlooking something---???


If you remove the nozzle/straw, and clear out the can tip, you can sometimes get a second application out of a partial can. Once the foam in the straw dries, you can usually push it out with a length of wire.


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## Judy S

I had put an unused straw on the half-gone container just to give it a good test...I have done what you suggest, but guess I just have to accept the inevitable...dang it....thanks Dane.


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