# Attack of the Snails.



## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

Is this a problem?

It's midnight and as much as I enjoy 
my two new baby leucs during the day I still find the night life just as fascinating. 
Tonight I use a small UV flashlight. It lights up the vivarium floor and plants with a whole new look. It reminds me of college and the bars lit up in blacklight it alters your alcohol induced judgement going back to tour dorm with a 10 only to discover the 10 is actually a 2... but I digress. 
Back to the problem —
I notice the usual little tracks on the fog covered glass made by the flies and other tiny creatures. But wait – whose bigger tracks do these belong to? I follow the winding tracks to discover a very small and slow moving garden snail.
Earlier in the day I was adding more leaf litter when I plucked out three or four little snails. 

As I mixed up the leaves inside I discovered a black house spider under a leaf! I have no idea how it got in there but it's outside now. 
I also do not know how the snails got in there. I have not added anything new for about a month. And the covers are snug.
Are these snails a problem that need to be addressed or are they a welcomed guest? If unwelcome is there something I can do? I've heard of people using beer to attract them but that's just wrong! Why waste a little bit of a perfectly good bottle of beer? Unless it's from the college bars with the black lights. 

Sorry for the college flashback story.
I just like to make my posts entertaining by trying to add a little humor to lighten and brighten up life! 

She wasn't really a 2 maybe about a 4½... 

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The photo is similar to what is in the viv.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

The snail won't harm your frogs, but may eat your plant matter.


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## Robru (Jan 1, 2021)

I wouldn't give these snails the opportunity to reproduce, and remove them when you see them. This is quite easy to do in the dark by placing a slice of cucumber in such a place, so that you can easily remove them.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

I've battled with various slugs and snails over the years in tanks and I've always found slugs a much bigger problem than snails. It's unlikely to be the same species but there's a tiny species of snail with a flattened spiral shell much like your picture that's present in some of my tanks and doesn't eat plants at all, it seems to subsist entirely on algae and fungi on the rotting wood.
If this species becomes an issue I have used iron phosphate based slug and snail pellets in enclosures with micro geckos before without any adverse effects on either the other microfauna or the geckos and I know people here have used them in frog enclosures too. 
Manuka honey also works as a good slug bait and they will crawl into it and die. I believe the honey sucks all of the water out of them and this might also work for snails but seems like it could be riskier for dart frogs than it is for small geckos as tiny frogs could maybe get stuck and die in the honey themselves.


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

And so the battle begins...


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Louis said:


> I've battled with various slugs and snails over the years in tanks and I've always found slugs a much bigger problem than snails. It's unlikely to be the same species but there's a tiny species of snail with a flattened spiral shell much like your picture that's present in some of my tanks and doesn't eat plants at all, it seems to subsist entirely on algae and fungi on the rotting wood.


House and greenhouse orchid growers wage wars against these (or very similar) snails, we call them "bush snails" and it's just common knowledge that they eat orchid roots and can decimate miniatures...however, my local trusted miniature orchid seller just stated that she feels that most damage attributed to snails is actually caused by slugs, and she doesn't think these bush snails are very problematic. Interesting that you've both come to the same conclusion.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Harpspiel said:


> House and greenhouse orchid growers wage wars against these (or very similar) snails, we call them "bush snails" and it's just common knowledge that they eat orchid roots and can decimate miniatures...however, my local trusted miniature orchid seller just stated that she feels that most damage attributed to snails is actually caused by slugs, and she doesn't think these bush snails are very problematic. Interesting that you've both come to the same conclusion.


Whatever small species of snail I have in my tanks is at least superficially very similar to the picture in this thread and 100% doesn't touch any of my orchids whereas the small slug species I battle with sometimes can absolutely decimate miniature orchids and their roots. It doesn't seem to harm my Pleurothallis alleni but eats the flowers and buds the minute they appear if left to its own devices and it will absolutely decimate the roots and leaves of some others given the chance. 
I would leave the slugs alone if they weren't such a problem for orchids because the species I have the biggest issues with doesn't seem to touch ANY other plants apart from my orchids and a species of asplenium fern that the love to eat the curled up new fronds on, they don't seem to touch anything else.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

N=1, but I have (what looks like) these in a plant only terrarium, and they leave Masdevallias and Neos and a handful of durable other plants alone, as far as I can tell. Don't spread them around (bleach everything that you put in vivs from here on out), but if it were me I wouldn't get too worried.

I used to enjoy college flashbacks too, until I learned everyone else thought I was about a 1 1/2. I try to stay away from that stuff that cuts both ways.


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## Pilcrow (Sep 18, 2017)

I have what is probably Z_onitoides arboreus _ in a tank that has ferns from a greenhouse grower, and in a tank with questionable moss that had slugs, as well. In the tank with slugs and snails, one of them ate all peperomias I tried in there. The other tank is fern only, and I am unsure of the damage they are causing, if any. My _Elaphoglossum metalicum_ aborts fronds, which could be due to damage, but could be another cultural issue. Everything else grows decently in there.

I do remove the snails when I see them, and put them in a tiny container with fresh substrate and some cuttings. They will eat the plants in that situation, but it is unclear if that is due to desperation, as the fresh substrate probably has less fungus and biofilm to eat. Amusingly, when I pick them up, they do try to eat me, too. I'm unsure if they are going after the salt or skin oils, but it doesn't hurt, it just feels odd.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I dont about these guys but snails can be a host for helminths and other obscurely lifecycled little monsters. Some plucking would worth my time.


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## DPfarr (Nov 24, 2017)

These little fuckers will eat eggs. Hate them so much.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Socratic Monologue said:


> but if it were me I wouldn't get too worried.


The last couple comments motivate me to rescind this comment.


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## connorology (Oct 6, 2018)

I also have Z_onitoides arboreus. _I hate them. They live in my chameleon vivarium and killed off my jewel orchids. They don't do much damage to my other plants. I was able to permanently end an early slug infestation with the reportedly pet-safe sluggo mentioned above (the plain iron phosphate without a chelating agent), but the snails do not seem as susceptible to it. Interestingly, they never seemed to get a foothold in my Phyllobates vivarium despite the fact I was pretty lackadaisical about plant processing before the snails popped up - I suspect the Phyllobates ate any hitchhikers. 

Orchid growers in Hawaii attribute significant economic damage to these guys (see attachment). After making fun of isopod collectors I ended up with a ton of Porcellio scaber "giant orange" because I read anecdotal reports that they would eat snail eggs and potentially the snails themselves. I actually bred them primarily to see if they would go after the snails. And the answer is... maybe. Regular introductions of P. scaber into my chameleon vivarium seems to have reduced overall snail population, but they might also just be out-competing the snails. Now I have so many P. scaber they're the ones eating my plants. So, genie wish granted, I guess.


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

Nice article.

Slugs and snails can be defeated, but not by beer or lettuce treatments. These treatments will not eradicate them.

Slugs have come into my tanks when we purchase or bring in new plants. Slugs and snalls do eat plants and eggs. The only effective way I was able to get rid of them was when I used CO2. You may need to bomb them several times to kill newly hatch juveniles because slug and snail eggs can survive CO2, but newly hatched or adult slugs and snail cannot survive CO2. My tanks are slug free only because of CO2 bombing.

Note: CO2 will may take down your tank isopods and some springtales populations. But these can be repopulated after you take down the bad guys. 

Here is the article of how to use CO2 effectively.

Building and using a CO2 generator


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## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

I never knew how problematic these tiny plant killers can be and the number of us that have and do deal with them.
I just plucked two more out.

I made 2 signs and placed one on the outside and one on the inside of the tank:
No Squatters Allowed!

I'm hoping these signs will help. 

I really appreciate all of you and your advice and experience.

Gary.

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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

GEG64 said:


> I never knew how problematic these tiny plant killers can be and the number of us that have and do deal with them.
> I just plucked two more out.
> 
> I made 2 signs and placed one on the outside and one on the inside of the tank:
> ...


Lettuce pulls, Posting "No Squatters Allowed signs..."

Sounds like everything is covered. Shouldn't have any more problems with those little suckers.


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## Anda (Jan 18, 2020)

davecalk said:


> Nice article.
> 
> The only effective way I was able to get rid of them was when I used CO2. You may need to bomb them several times to kill newly hatch juveniles because slug and snail eggs can survive CO2, but newly hatched or adult slugs and snail cannot survive CO2. My tanks are slug free only because of CO2 bombing.


Slugs simply close their pneumostomes and can survive for extended periods without oxygen. It is virtually impossible to get rid of all by CO2 bombing. And then there are the eggs. May keep the numbers down though.
My slug problem came to an abrupt end when I added parasitic nematodes to the tank. Have not seen any slugs since (going on 1 year now).


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## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

I have not seen and hope I never see slugs. I have seen a few nematode. 
I have not seen a lot of snails but that's not to say there aren't more and/or eggs. 
So far, I think I have pulled 6 or so.

CO² seems to be quite drastic and a weapon of last resort.









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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Kmc said:


> I dont about these guys but snails can be a host for helminths and other obscurely lifecycled little monsters. Some plucking would worth my time.


Have you ever seen a slug infested with Riccardoella? It's creepy, I found one a while ago that was absolutely crawling with them and the freakiest thing was that they seemed to switch freely between crawling across the slugs skin and 'diving' under the skin. You could literally watch a tiny mite pop out of the slugs skin, run a little distance, and then burrow back in. It was absolutely disgusting and made me feel really sorry for the slug although apparently they don't cause them much harm.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

Nematodes will work for some slugs but not others by the way guys. Whatever species I've wrestled with was completely unaffected by them but iron phosphate worked well.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

No Louis, i havent seen it but your description sure works.


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## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

According to Snail Predators - Snail Facts and Information. 
There are a few vivarium residents that might help in dispatching these snails (I pulled 4 today)

"Among the predators are flies, mites, nematodes, millipedes, centipedes, some caterpillars and fireflies, leeches, beetles and their larvae, rats, mice, weasels, squirrels, toads, salamanders, turtles, blackbirds, wild turkeys and other Birds of the subfamily Tetraoninae."

Of course several of these we will not have a wild turkey – unless it is a nice glass with an ice cube.
I know I have 3 millipedes but I have not seen them since February.

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## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

According to Snail Predators - Snail Facts and Information. 
There are a few vivarium residents that might help in dispatching these snails (I pulled around 9 today)

"Among the predators are flies, mites, nematodes, millipedes, centipedes, some caterpillars and fireflies, leeches, beetles and their larvae, rats, mice, weasels, squirrels, toads, salamanders, turtles, blackbirds, wild turkeys and other Birds of the subfamily Tetraoninae."

Of course several of these we will not have like a wild turkey – unless it is a nice glass with an ice cube and a nice Cohiba with a long ash.
I know I have 3 millipedes. I saw the largest one today.

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