# 250 gallon paludarium



## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

So, the time has finally come for my third attempt at building the little slice of nature that I'm aiming for. My first two attempts (which can be seen at http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/74349-swamp-paludarium.html and http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/88780-stump.html) both failed because they were open tanks and I couldn't get the humidity right for growing what I wanted. This time I'm going for a more traditional tank and I will plan every step carefully. The closed tank also opens up for many more types of inhabitants!

The look I'm aiming for is basically the same as for my previous attempts. I want it to feel like a slice of a temperate forest rather than a rain forest, and I want things to be to scale rather than letting, say, a rock give the impression of a cliff or a piece of wood the impression of a tree. I will also be using wood from outdoors rather than the typical aquarium varieties. The focus will be on mosses and ferns (including for example liverworts and horsetails, basically everything with spores).

Here is a very sloppy sketch of how it will look, just for scale. The footprint of the tank is 130x60 cm and the total height is 130 cm. This is divided into an aquarium which will be 50 cm high, and a terrestrial part which will be 80 cm. The aquarium will be drilled to be able to use a sump below.










So far not much has happened (other than us finally moving to a new apartment so that I can begin this project). I'm mainly posting this so that I can feel that I've at least started  I've talked to a guy who will build the tank for me, but we still haven't decided on all the details. I've also found the cabinet that I'll be using. The problem is that it's too narrow, so I will have to rebuild it. It's mainly that I want to keep the front, because I think it looks nicer than anything I would be able to build.










This is in our kitchen, and also where the tank will stand.

A part of the build that I really look forward to is that I will be building a DIY LED ramp. I've tinkered with some electronics before and I have an Arduino and a Raspberry Pi which I'll be using for controlling stuff. But I've never attempted anything this big, so it will be a lot of fun! Anyways, just wanted to let you know of my plans 

Cheers,
Rasmus


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Sounds cool! Following.


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

Looks promising. 
I was thinking of doing an arduino ramp for my existing custom LED's, so I'm curious too see how you will do this. I might copy you


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm almost done with the stand and the bottom tank is being built right now. The top part will be assembled in my home on Monday. So getting there! 

I have a question regarding the background. I basically have two looks that I'm choosing between: either an eroded riverbed look with sand or a brown "forest look" with peat. Or I could have the bottom part as a riverbed and the upper more of a forest look. What do you think? I also need help with how to build it. The last couple of tanks I had used Styrofoam, grout, epoxy and then finally peat with silicone. That felt like way too many steps, and since they were paludariums the grout got a bit wet and mushy. Now I was thinking of just having silicone peat/sand directly on the Styrofoam. Any reason why that wouldn't work? Also, since this is a rather big build it would be expensive and a lot of work (and smelly!) to use silicone. Are there any other alternatives that could be used? It must stand up to the water and it would be very good if it was well suited for moss growth. Is there maybe some sort of clay which hardens and then doesn't dissolve in water? Thanks!


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

You could use Elastopur. I've used it and it's very good stuff. You would need 2 cans for your build (yours is similar to my tank size-wise). Here's a link for how to use the stuff + my build on which I used it.

It's a bit more expensive (20-25€ a can) but it's easier than silicone, doesn't need extra solvents, doesn't smell, and is ready to be used in 24h. Plus what's an extra 10-20€ on a huge build like this


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Looks very promising! Thanks a lot. Great looking tank also, I think we might have similar ambitions here


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

As far as I'm aware there's 3 huge tanks being build right now, yours, mine and fullmonti's tank. It's nice to get some ideas from one another


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I think I'll go for elastopur, but since the shipping is rather expensive I want to get it right the first time. So how sure are you of the two cans? Do you think it's more one-is-probably-not-quite-enough or more you-need-AT-LEAST-two-cans?


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

It largely depends on how much groves, bumps and holes there are in the background. If you have a background with a lot (like the left side of my background), then the surface area can double.

So for your tank it's only the back that will be coated right? That would make 130x130cm? I think 2 cans is enough if the background is rather flat (like the middle part of my background used a lot less elastopur than what I would have needed for the same area on the left hand side). 
However it's maybe best to get 3 cans if you plan on making a lot of bulges and groves. Especially if you will coat the whole ramp too (the one in the sketch you made).
So I recommend 3 cans to be safe 


My background is 100x90cm and I used 2 cans. Thinking it wouldn't be enough I used a thin layer with the first can and it covered 70% of the background! With the second can I used a very thick layer and had about 1cm left in the pot  In hindsight I would have put a thicker layer with the first can because in certain places there are some very thin layers and even foam poking through...


Some tips for when you will use it: 
Divide the background into an area for each can, and just start coating that area. When you finished the area and still have elastopur in the can, don't start on the next area but just add onto the same area making a thicker layer.
Unlike silicone, Elastopur dries suddenly (chemical reaction). So it stays liquid for a long time (if it's cold, about 2 hours) and then hardens in a few minutes time. This means you can paint the whole can empty and press the peat into it at the very end when the area is completely coated. You're from sweden right? So it will be cold outside, that's perfect because the colder the elastopur the longer you can work with it before it hardens! (colder temps = slower chemical reaction)
Don't paint it, dab it. If you paint it, it's too thin of a layer.
Oh and don't forget to add the resin that's in the lid + the color powder and mix very well!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks a lot for the detailed response! I'll order three cans then. I'll actually coat half of the right side as well, but on the other hand there are some areas which will be covered with soil. I will attempt to build the background in the tank, but I'll try your can in the fridge suggestion.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

The aquarium part being built. Getting there!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Finally done with the stand! I might oil the top later, but I'll wait and see how it looks with the tank on. Unfortunately I just realized that I have screwed up regarding the position of the drilled holes for the plumbing. They will be positioned almost right on top of the posterior legs (which hold much of the weight of the whole thing). I'm rather angry with myself right now, so I'll have to cool down for a day or two to think of how to solve this


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Slow progress here. The glazier made a mistake and had to recut some of the pieces. Anyways, today I at least got the bottom part which will later be the aquatic section. It's larger than I thought!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Finally done! Next step is the plumbing.


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## kshorey (Feb 4, 2013)

I can't wait to see where this goes.


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

Very clean, I like it!


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## Toxic (Jul 9, 2012)

wow... that is... humongous!! Cant wait to see it finished.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Such potential! 

Makes me think about the Deeb's 300gallon archer fish tank.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks! I just hope that the color difference that comes from the aquatic section having thicker glass won't be as pronounced later.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Gorgeous! But it looks like an Ikea stand? Do you think that it will support the weight?


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Please don't talk like that  It's not an Ikea stand, and I've tried to strengthen it as much as possible. It does make me a bit nervous though, I have to admit that.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Nothing against Ikea stands. But Ikea often indicates the weight limit. For my rack I asked for advice to a friend engineer about weight.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Rasmus said:


> Finally done with the stand! I might oil the top later, but I'll wait and see how it looks with the tank on. Unfortunately I just realized that I have screwed up regarding the position of the drilled holes for the plumbing. They will be positioned almost right on top of the posterior legs (which hold much of the weight of the whole thing). I'm rather angry with myself right now, so I'll have to cool down for a day or two to think of how to solve this


This build has been soo slow. The issue above proved to be impossible to solve, and i had to build a new stand from scratch. That's what I got from trying to take shortcuts. Also, I've been swamped at work with little time for this project.

Anyways, now I've at least started the work on the background. It's a bit tricky since I want a large water part. I view this more like an aquarium with a terrestrial part than a terrarium with a water feature. The problem is that that leads to rather steep walls and it's less aesthetically pleasing than a more shallow water section. But I hope it will work out!


The foam is way thicker now than it will be (and the back should be covered as well of course) so it looks a little smaller than it is.


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## asully (Mar 3, 2011)

looks like something from the arctic like a polar bear is about to walk out on the ice. Awesome tank tho!!


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## Tazman (May 26, 2013)

Huge tank! Will be making one similar in size soon. Good luck finishing it can't wait to see the finished project.


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## Bob1000 (Jan 15, 2014)

No drain??


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Yes, you can see the drain pipe to the right. It will be hidden better of course.


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## Jeremy M (Oct 19, 2012)

I am very much liking where this is going.
Please keep us updated!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

So, I've made some progress. I decided to start with the water section since i haven't found any good wood for the land section yet.

The way i imagine it is that the water section will mimic a riverbank and the land will be a forest on the edge of the water.





First I carved it and covered it in grout.










Then I applied Elastopur and pressed sand and small rocks into it. I love Elastopur! Huge thanks to rabu92 for suggesting it. It has no smell, covers very well and cures fast. Also, it has a sticky consistency similar to, say, honey, so the sand/peat sticks very well to it. I will never use epoxy or silicone again.



Now I've filled it with water to get rid of loose sand in order to see if there are any areas which need to be patched.


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## rabu92 (Mar 9, 2013)

Nice job on the sculpting, really like the curves. I'm glad you liked the Elastopur, it really is perfect stuff for what we do.


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## mollbern (Feb 10, 2013)

Dang that's looking super awesome! Those close-ups totally look like an eroding canyon wall...


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks! It's a bit tricky to have such a deep water section because it's difficult to create depth. I went with a pillar and two interconnected caves, but it's difficult to see in the crappy photos. I think it will be clearer when the sand sediments and the water clears (and when I get some lighting in there). It's not a very natural representation because I can't see such a pillar being formed in a real setting, but it was a compromise.


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## frogpecker (Mar 20, 2013)

This is a wonderful build. I really like where I think this is going. The deep water is a nice departure from conventional palludarium wisdom. I'm very jealous about the Elastopur. We don't seem to be able to source it here in the US.

And I'm glad I can now follow another big build thread. Rabu92 seems to be nearing the end of his build. 

Keep the updates and the picks coming!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks a lot! Hope i will not disappoint 

I was out in the woods and stumbled upon this meadow where ivy had totally overtaken some birch trees. I really liked how it looked so I will be going for something similar. 



As I mentioned before I want this to look more like a temperate forest rather than a tropical. I also want it to have a feel of natural history museum display (well, for it to look like a real slice of nature would be even better of course) rather than the highly scaped Amano look. Anyways, I ended up taking some dead ivy and birchbark.

I put the larger pieces in place with polyurethane foam.







Then I covered the whole background with grout.





I debated with myself a lot whether to have the two tree trunks like that. It looks very "vertical", but they will be covered with living ivy and i hope that will soften the impression. I also carved out the space for the false bottom. It's only 10 cm deep. Do you think that will be enough?



What remains now is to cover it with elastopur and peat. Then I will add thinner ivy branches and silicone them into place. I will also add roots to the water section to enhance the impression of an eroded river bed.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm debating whether I should use Elastopur in my next build or not. It looks great but I'm a bit concerned about the weight. Is it heavy?


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Elastopur is a type of polyurethane paint, so the weight is negligible. Were you maybe thinking about the styrofoam background?


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Rasmus said:


> Elastopur is a type of polyurethane paint, so the weight is negligible. Were you maybe thinking about the styrofoam background?


No I meant the Elastopur
I read that it was an epoxy resin and thought of aquarium decorations which can be quite heavy. Not sure what those decorations are made of though, my mind just made that connection.

Thanks!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I see  Well, it's nothing you have to worry about. I really recommend it if you live in a country where it's available.


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## Jeremy M (Oct 19, 2012)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, especially since you've already built it into your system, but I would absolutely not use english ivy in any form in any build. I haven't heard reports of how frogs fare with this, but the stems, fruits and leaves are poisonous (in concentrated amounts), but the sap of the worst of it all, and can cause severe skin irritation and poisoning symptoms. What's even more worrying is that it looks like you took these pieces fresh from the plant, so they would still contain sap, and that you plan to have parts of these underwater, where I would think even a dry plant would leach problems. I suggest that you tear these and all the grout material it was touching out and do a vigorous disinfection of your tank.
Other than that, it's looking really awesome...

info from University of Tennessee Institute of Agriculture


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks for your concern, but all the material is long dead. Bone dry, about to fall apart dead. There might be a green leaf or two still stuck to them, but they just come from when I gathered the pieces. They will also be above the water so I'm not worried.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Just thought of another thing, did you tint the Elastopur before applying the sand? And if not, I think I read somewhere that it's white or white-ish, does it stay that color as is hardens or does it "clear up" like wood glue?

Sorry if I'm bothering you with my questions


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

No problem at all. It is kind of brownish cream colored and it stays the same way after drying. So I tinted it brown, but I think it wasn't strictly necessary since the sand covers it very well anyways. But it could be useful if the sand comes off over time I guess. There is a picture earlier where I've painted a small square on the back wall to test the color. There are three squares: one with sand, one with peat, and one with the natural color.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I noticed that I can't see the photos in this thread, neither with a browser nor with Tapatalk. I could when I posted them though. Is anyone else having the same problem? Is there some known issue with Photobucket for example?


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## Gabousse (Apr 5, 2013)

I can see them! And I'm glad i can!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Haha, good to know


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Work, summer and other distractions put this project on a six month hiatus. The tank has been standing unplanted, with no lighting and with just a dozen lonely rasboras to keep it company. But now the dark and depressing Swedish autumn has once again gotten me excited about bringing something bright and lively to our apartment!

Today I received two heat sinks, a pair of Maxwellen drivers, and 27 Bridgelux LEDs with optics from aquastyleonline.com. I went with 1/2 6400 K (neutral white), 1/4 4500 K (warm white) and 1/4 1000 K (cold white). Then I will make one string with neutral/warm and one with neutral/cold. That way I should be able to get whatever color temperature I like. The heat sinks also have plenty of room for more LEDs if it turns out that 27 LEDs was too optimistic.

I have 45, 60 and 80 degrees optics to play around with in order to make the light end up in the tank rather than on my kitchen floor (the tank is 130 cm high).









Stuff









LEDs glued to heat sinks

I guess it speaks in favor of the heat sinks and glue that they were efficient enough that my 15W soldering iron was too weak to melt the solder properly. So I'll get a more powerful one tomorrow and give it another try.

Btw, I can wholeheartedly recommend aquastyleonline.com. They were super fast, very accommodating and they added some goodies like a fan, spare LEDs, wiring, wire stripper and cables for free. All while being much cheaper than for example rapidled.com.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

And it works! That was fun and very easy to do. Took maybe 90 minutes to put together. It required a 30W soldering iron though. The next step is to build a hood to put it in. Just have to wait until the dancing spots in front of my eyes disappear first  High wattage LEDs are so very bright!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Here I just held the lamp above the tank (which looks like crap now; I just put some household plants there six months ago and then let them die in darkness). I think I should have gone with a few more LEDs, but I will see when they are placed properly and with the optics on. I don't want it to be super bright as I want to keep it low maintenance, but I would rather run the LEDs at reduced power and at least have the option.


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## smoosh (Oct 25, 2014)

Awesome work so far!


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## nick65 (Mar 7, 2005)

hi Rasmus,
it looks great.
question about leds .. was it difficult installing them? did you design the electric scheme or the led supplier did it for you?
i have been playing with the idea of a diy led lighting unit but i am not really sure about how to do it..
nick


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks and hi! It was very very easy. I got a kit from aquastyleonline.com with heat sinks, leds and drivers, but it would have been just as easy if I got the parts separately. The only potentially frightning step is to determine how many leds to use for each driver. A driver is rated for a certain wattage, say 15 to 30 W. You then divide those numbers with the wattage for each individual led. So for a 3W led you get 15/3 to 30/3=5 to 10 leds per driver.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Sorry, I meant voltage not wattage


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

OH. MY.GOSH.

I've always wanted to do a large palu like this; this is incredible! I just love how we, on dendroboard, actually have the resources, like this thread, to learn how to make a unique peice of art that is 10x better then anything at a zoo or aquarium. 

Impeccable work my friend! Keep it up!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Kind words for a tank which isn't half done yet, but thanks!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

One of my Maxwellen driver burnt out. It made a fizzling sound and smells like burnt electronics. That's annoying, but more importantly it makes me worried about the potential fire hazard.

I shifted the drivers to see if the led string itself was shorted, but it seems to work fine. Can anyone with more electronics skills suggest what might have happened? The potentiometers used for dimming were not protected, so it could have been that their cords were touching either each other or the heat sink. Could that be it?


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

Looks great! I love the size!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Canopy done! It may not get me into the carpenter's guild, but it serves its purpose and I think it fits well with the rest of the build. I've also started the planting, mainly putting cuttings of stuff I already had at home just to see what can grow where.

This means that a year-long build is finally done. It's been fun, but if I were to do it again I would change a lot. The tank is higher and more narrow that I envisioned. I should have gone for a lower and broader one, since it would give more flexibility. I also regret that I made the background so flat. It will be hopefully be covered by plant growth soon, but I think more levels in the background would give a better impression of depth. Live and learn and all that, and overall I'm happy over how it turned out. Now I can finally start to focus on the interior of the tank!









Full tank shot









Canopy. Note that only the warm white LED string is working since I'm waiting for a new driver after the old one burned out













































Planted Christmas moss and needle grass at the water's edge. Hopefully they will like it there and spread

This has been a DIY build, and I've made notes of every single thing I've purchased for building it. I'm in Sweden so the amounts may not be directly comparable, but it should at least indicate the relative cost of stuff. Shipping/other costs are included in the amounts, which is why some stuff may seem weirdly expensive. I started this build after we had moved to a new city, and I got rid of all my aquarium stuff before moving. The only things which I had from before were tools, the doors for the stand and the box I use as sump. So this is basically what it would cost to build it from scratch.

Stand
-Screws: 14 $
-Board: 107 $
-Fittings: 21 $
-Lumber: 79 $
-Sound proofing: 17 $
Total: 238 $

Tank
-Tank: 608 $
-Styrofoam: 54 $
-PVC: 50 $
-PVC tank connectors: 61 $
-Hoses: 38 $
-Silicone: 20 $
-Acetone: 3 $
-Substrate: 70 $
-Elastopur: 105 $
-Grout: 28 $
-Pump: 41 $
-Filter: 27 $
Total: 1105 $

Canopy
-LED kit: 184 $
-Lumber: 58 $
-Polyurethane foam: 13 $
-Paint: 34 $
Total: 289 $

Grand total: 1751 $ (12960 SEK)

Lesson learnt here is that DIY is probably not cheaper, but definitely more fun


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

I think it looks good, once the background fills in it won't matter that its flat.
If you're looking for plants locally I can recommend "Trädgårds paletten", they usually have cool miniature orchids and bromeliads. 
"Oasen" by the train station is another place that's pretty decent, very good prices but more common stuff. You can find some gems there from time to time though. 

Maybe you know about these places already but I thought it was worth mentioning.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I've been to Oasen, but I didn't know about Trädgårdspaletten. Looks great, and I commute via Hyllie everyday so it's easy for me to get there. Thanks!


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