# Carry-on Frog Luggage....



## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Need opinions and experiences.....good, bad and ugly of recent or semi recent airline encounters with your frogs and TSA, carry-on.

Thanks,

Phil


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## jgtech (Oct 11, 2008)

I would love to hear about this as well. I reviewed Southwest, Frontier and United. It appears at least according to the text on their websites that in no way shape or form are frogs allowed on the plane either carry on or luggage. Kind of a bummer, was hoping to go to Frog Day in Phoenix in March and bring back some frogs to Colorado with me. Do any airlines let you carry them on?

Or is it more about just getting through security and ignoring the airline policy?


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## Bob S (Mar 5, 2008)

Thought about that also. Would love to go to frog day and get out of the jersey arctic for a week, but getting frogs back hurts that idea. We could mail them to ourselves.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Doesn't look good....I remember the First National Reptile Breeders Expo in Orlando 1988. I carried on a large bag filled with snakes and lizards.....the good ole' dayz....


Over two million pets and other live animals are transported by air every year in the United States. Federal and state governments impose restrictions on transporting live animals. In addition, each airline establishes its own company policy for the proper handling of the animals they transport. As a shipper or owner you also have a responsibility to take the necessary precautions to ensure the well being of the animal you ship.

*The federal Animal Welfare Act is enforced by the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture*


*TSA FAQ 
What am I not allowed to carry as baggage ?

Source: AIRPORT SERVICE 
Live animals are not allowed.

Prohibted baggage:
There are items that cannot be transported onboard the aircraft in either your carry-ons or checked luggage: 

Items prohibited by laws, regulations or restrictions by countries in your travel itinerary and/or items identified by EVA as unsuitable for carriage because of weight, size or nature. 

Live animals, except for dogs, cats, rabbits and seeing eye/hearing aid dogs that are safely transported in accordance with EVA requirements

*


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## jgtech (Oct 11, 2008)

Bob S said:


> Thought about that also. Would love to go to frog day and get out of the jersey arctic for a week, but getting frogs back hurts that idea. We could mail them to ourselves.


Thought about that as well, Frog day is on Saturday, so really your frogs would sit somewhere in Phoenix for Saturday and probably some part of Sunday then eventually arrive at your home sometime Monday. Not ideal, but I guess not the end of the world. Problem is phx temps can vary pretty dramatically from probably 50's to 90's so do you pack with a hot pack, cold pack or none.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

jgtech said:


> Thought about that as well, Frog day is on Saturday, so really your frogs would sit somewhere in Phoenix for Saturday and probably some part of Sunday then eventually arrive at your home sometime Monday. Not ideal, but I guess not the end of the world. Problem is phx temps can vary pretty dramatically from probably 50's to 90's so do you pack with a hot pack, cold pack or none.


Man, there is NO way I would risk that! Delays of any sort are bad enough, but when you need hot or cold packs...forget it....that's when I start driving.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Cindy Dicken posted this on another site regarding this very thing a few months ago:



> *We have been flying to events with frogs for about 6 years, and I am a firm believer in the "No ask, no tell" phlosophy. The TSA could care less, it is the airlines that have the 'rules' as to what if any, animals can be brought on.
> We have a carry on that is well within the allotted dimensions, the frogs get packed in deli cups placed in the bag and the bag is sent through Xray with NO attention drawn to the bag. IF somesone should question the contents we tell them they are tropical frogs, and leave it at that.
> 
> I can't say I have ever heard of anyone having a problem with carry on frogs when handled this way.*
> _________________


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## beachbabe18509 (Oct 29, 2007)

I had this same question last year before NAAC 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/28752-flying-frogs.html


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## Fishman (Jan 16, 2007)

Fish get carried through in the baggage compartment all the time. It fact Southwest is one of the best airport to airport shippers for large fish orders. So this being said, I can't see how an insulated box with a heat pack and frogs wouldn't be allowed.


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## ghettopieninja (Jul 29, 2008)

I have never done frogs but I have brought back plants I collected/purchesed in both japan and costa rica without any problems, In those case I just put them in zip lock bags and wrapped them in a hoodie/some other article of clothing one would like to have in your carry on. I'm sure it's a different story getting frogs through, but you would think international customs would be far more strict, especially in a country like costa rica, then it would for domestic, so if it was that easy internationally I'm sure it's no biggie.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

ghettopieninja said:


> I have never done frogs but I have brought back plants I collected/purchesed in both japan and costa rica without any problems, In those case I just put them in zip lock bags and wrapped them in a hoodie/some other article of clothing one would like to have in your carry on. I'm sure it's a different story getting frogs through, but you would think international customs would be far more strict, especially in a country like costa rica, then it would for domestic, so if it was that easy internationally I'm sure it's no biggie.


Your lucky that customs didn't catch you. Your plants would have cost you quite a bit more.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm with Tim, If they had caught it you would have unhappy 
see http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/archives/2006_news_releases/092006/09292006_5.xml 

and http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/hot_issues/lacey_act/index.shtml 

and might have gotten you a label that would get you searched every time you came back into the country in addition to the other issues. If the country of origin prohibited the export of the plants it would have been problematic. I would also hesitate to admit to potential federal violations in an open forum...... 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks Ed...

Lets stay on track with DOMESTIC airlines and frogs, shall we.....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Have you searched the frognet archives? This has been well covered there several times over the years... 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ed said:


> ....over the years...
> 
> Ed


Trying to get some current experiences...as in months ago....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I think there was a discussion from last year or the year before by some of the long-time froggers going to and from shows. 

Ed


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

there were a bunch of people who went to NAAC this past June that carried frogs back on the plane with them, however it is a risk i personally woudl not be willing to take, i woudl just rather ship the frogs to myself and avoid any unnescesary headaches that would come of it.


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Hi there,

When coming back from NAAC, I packed the plants and frogs I'd bought in my carry-on in deli cups and got through security without so much as a cleared throat. However, I sweated the whole time and I'll probably just mail the frogs to myself next time, because I really don't want to feel that anxious again.

Best,
Ash


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

Having not read any of the previous threads other posters provided, perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but: 

Why not just ship them air freight from your departure airport to your destination airport the same day you are traveling? When you arrive, you just pick up the frogs from the freight office. Heck, they might even end up in the cargo hold of the plane in which you are traveling.

Jim


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

air freight cost has skyrocketed, last i checked it was about $120 and that was about a year ago, not sure what it is now, i used to get frogs shiped to me Delta Dash and they woudl only spent about 3-4 hours in transit it was great until the price went up.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

jehitch said:


> Having not read any of the previous threads other posters provided, perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but:
> 
> Why not just ship them air freight from your departure airport to your destination airport the same day you are traveling? When you arrive, you just pick up the frogs from the freight office. Heck, they might even end up in the cargo hold of the plane in which you are traveling.
> 
> Jim


Have you actually done this?

I have shipped lots of tincs before and all have been on the larger size with decent body mass and well fed. Even with these ideal conditions, I lost a few frogs due to both hot and cold conditions. Buyers invariably are upset and it's hard on everyone including the frogs (obviously).

I am now starting to consider Pumillio and thumbnail types for possible shipping and I'm just trying to get the best method as there are somewhat more delicate. I refuse to go the heat pack / cold pack route. Not happening.

Are cargo holds cold? What is the cost for shipping them the way you are describing, jim? I would love to be able to take 30 deli cups onto a plane in carry on luggage. It certainly is not Illegal. The most the airline or airport could do is deny you your flight, yes?


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## MarcNem (Dec 13, 2008)

I have traveled on American Airlines from Florida to JFK with frogs and there was no problem. I had three diff thumbnails. Just before I went thru security I put 4 imis, 5 intermedius, and 4 lamasi, each species in three 16 oz deli cups, in a small insulated soft lunch box. (The type you get at Walmart for $5) I know it was cramped for the frogs, but this way I only had three cups in my carry on instead of 13 little ones. I just felt it would lower the suspicion/curiousity of TSA agents. And just incase the TSA opened the bag, each cup was labeled "harmless tropical frogs". They never opened the bag, and all the frogs were fine when I got home. This seems fine for young frogs or smaller/thumbs, but I don't think I would pile 4 or 5 adult tincs in a 16 oz deli cup. 
Like it was said earlier, its a rule of the Airline, not the TSA. Seems like the TSA could really care less.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

MarcNem said:


> Like it was said earlier, its a rule of the Airline, not the TSA. Seems like the TSA could really care less.


Ok....this is more like what Im trying to get. I like the pre-emptive label

Thanks


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## Darren Meyer (May 22, 2004)

Last Summer while flying out to NAAC I carried with me 100 frogs and shipped out 200 more (just in case) all in 5 0z. deli cups . The carried frogs were packed in a hard case (like what musicans use to haul gear) and it has handy little snap locks . I was looking for somthing that would fit in the overhead and be protected against the next moron who shoved his stuff in after me . 
Well the case would fit in the overhead , made sure to get the correct dimentions before buying . But once I got on the plane I realized the case had to be turned on it's side !! Oh no all those poor frogs .. I diden't want to chance it so I asked the first class attendant if she could place them in the first class closet . She did with out asking . At the end of the fight she asked me what was in there because she said it case sang all the way to DC !!! lol .
The screening through the TSA check points that silver case just flew on through w/o a pause . Now my lunch was a whole other issue , go figure !
One the way home I had a few frogs I just placed in with my lunch and it was inspected quickly with out much of a pause .
Oh and with all of the flight delays and cancelled flights I had to re book a few flights so I had to screen the frogs 6-10 times . 
Every time not one pause with the TSA and the frogs .
Could not believe it .
Happy frogging , 
Darren


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Darren Meyer said:


> The screening through the TSA check points that silver case just flew on through w/o a pause . Now my lunch was a whole other issue , go figure !


Off topic a bit but I have had more problems with food than anything else including laptops.. My wife and I missed a flight because we had several loaves of banana bread... This resulted in the luggage being pulled and opened and searched apparently because the banana bread looked like some kind of explosive in the plastic bags. (Brent Brock took great joy in calling me a banana bread terrorist). 


Ed


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

I'd be curious to see how much of any given frog actually shows up on the scanner. They are so tiny with very low skeletal mass - they are essentially little sacs of water passing through the scanner - that's probably why they don't say anything.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Matt,

You would be suprised what shows up with the newer equiptment. Try to crane your head and look at a monitor sometime. It almosts looks like 3-D and the degrees and shades look almost like color and depth....very weird.

I am sure even tiny frogs skeletons would stand out and while one or two may not look like anything....I would pull the bag off that contained 30 of them and nothing else, If I was screening just based on the oddity alone.

The real comments I am waiting for are those when the screeners look at all the cups and are satisfied and let them proceed.....or not.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Philsuma said:


> Matt,
> 
> You would be suprised what shows up with the newer equiptment. Try to crane your head and look at a monitor sometime. It almosts looks like 3-D and the degrees and shades look almost like color and depth....very weird.
> 
> ...


I'm familiar with what the screens look like - I'm just wondering what they'd actually see - considering they'd be in cups with wet moss etc - i'm not sure what the hang up is here - lots of folks move LOTS of animals this way as evidenced by the numerous posts on here and previous threads - the worst thing they can do is keep you from going through security. 

If anything, the TSA regs have been relaxed in recent months . . . TSA to Relax Regulations on Cosmetic Liquid Container Sizes | SkinInc.com


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

The hang up is going to be that one time where some wanna be cop TSA guy holds you up - do not pass go, ect. I want to know what happens then.

I don't want to have a case with 30 pumillio and have to go back home or worse....have them cancel your ticket and prevent you from flying.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Just FYI - For those headed to Frog Day 2009!

I had a conversation with Amanda this morning, and she has offered to ship any frogs purchased at the show on Monday following the show (March 16) for folks that are traveling by plane to the event and are reluctant to attempt to bring any frogs back home on the plane. Of course, the shipper would be responsible for all shipping costs and the standard live arrival guarantee would not apply (but you know they will be professionally packaged for safe delivery). You can contact Amanda directly to make arrangements, or you can come and see me at the JL-Exotics table and I can help point you in the right direction there too.

Hope to see everyone there!

Jeremy


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Philsuma said:


> The hang up is going to be that one time where some wanna be cop TSA guy holds you up - do not pass go, ect. I want to know what happens then.
> 
> I don't want to have a case with 30 pumillio and have to go back home or worse....have them cancel your ticket and prevent you from flying.


The bottom line is you are not allowed to take live animals as carry-on onto any airline (some exceptions made for furry friends). So no matter what TSA says you are breaking the rules and thus are subject to the risks involved with such. 

It definitely appears that the live frogs are not an issue with TSA though they are not expressly allowed by TSA regulations - this opens the issue up to the interpretation by individual TSA agents - thus if someone wanted to give you a hard time they could - that's the risk you take. TSA certainly can't cancel your ticket - that is an airline call. They CAN refuse to let you through security WITH the offending items - your choice is then to leave the items there for them to dispose of or leave with your items and do something else with them. TSA is only concerned with national security mandates - they have nothing to do with Airline policy. 

On the other hand you could fly "above the cuff" and do it the right way. Use Delta Dash or a similar service. You can take your insulated cooler to the freight drop off area prior to your flight. You can arrange for the package to be delivered on any domestic passenger flight you choose (one offered by the selected carrier of course). Be sure to place stickers on the outside of the box claiming the contents as live reptiles (they gave me the stickers in the past). I was told that the cargo holds are pressurized and maintain a temp of 50 - 70 F. I have done this for several animals, both shipping and receiving, and have never had problems (though they were always turtles/tortoises and snakes). When I receive animals at HIA they actually come out on the luggage conveyor belt with the folks' baggage from the plane they came in on. My only suggestion, if you are shipping them back while you are traveling, is to make sure they arrive ON your flight or on a flight that will land AFTER you do so they are not sitting on a conveyor belt for hours.

The cost varies by weight but it typically starts around $70. Not bad if you are shipping 30 pumillio - you will certainly be able to get the nominal shipping costs back out of them assuming you are intending to resell them.

In summary - no one will be able to give you a guarantee that there will be no hassles if you choose to circumvent the rules. By doing so you are assuming a level of risk (ie: missing your flight). So far, the other posters who have tried this have not had any issues - so it seems the risk of getting stopped is low.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

These laws are getting a bit laughable.

Frogs are now a matter of national security. 

If you are transporting one or two frogs - pop 'em in delicups and put 'em in your jacket or something. That way - unless you are transporting frogs of steel - you'll be fine.

Illegal yes. Dangerous no. Unnecessary laws? Of course. 

It's not like you'll be on the FBI's terrorist hot list if you are caught transporting a frog or two. ...then again...


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ok...lets get out perspective back in order.

There is nothing ILLEGAL being considered here. I am fairly sure that no law enforcement agency is going to charge anyone with a criminal offense such as "Causing a catastrophe by dangerous animal" or the like.

There is no law being violated here, only an airline "policy" and since I cannot find a "blanket" policy for all the airlines, *some or certain ones may actually NOT have a policy restricting small animals in carry on.*

I DO know of biologists asking for and being granted permission to take frogs on carry on, so obviously anything is possible.

What MeiKVR6 brought up about being "labeled" or tagged for fututre searchs IS something to be concerned about. I could easily see the frog encounter turning into your name being added to the "red list" and having the pleasure of a lifetime of extra hassles awaiting you at every terminal, every time.

Matt, with respect, I am requesting actual experiences and actual personal knowledge of the carry on procedures.

*Monkey in a Bag*










_January 21, 2008_
On January 21, a Transportation Security Officer got quite a surprise as he viewed a passenger's bag in the X-ray machine and saw what appeared to be a live animal. When asked about it, the passenger replied, "Yes, I am transporting a monkey!"
The man was carrying a four-week old Capuchin monkey asleep inside a cage and holding a stuffed toy koala. The man stated he was transporting the infant monkey, born in Pennsylvania, to Ft. Lauderdale to be paired with a new mother in captivity. After checking the man's story and coordination with the Port Authority Police, the CDC, Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, and the airlines, the monkey and passenger were allowed to travel together in the cabin.

TSA Travel Tip: When traveling with an animal, please be sure to check with your airline to ensure you meet all regulations. At the checkpoint, please remove all animals from their carrying cases and send the case through the X-ray machine. Hold your pet in your arms and proceed through the metal detector.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

I forgot I had my darts (short blunt objects) in my pocket as opposed to my luggage. Needless to say they didn't let me take them on. However, I had to option to get rid of them. 

I would just recommend getting there early enough if there is an issue you have time to resolve it.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

I never mentioned laws - only airline policies and TSA regulations

From your original post - 


Philsuma said:


> Need *opinions* and experiences.....


some government tips on transferring live animals
Aviation Consumer Protection Home Page

I don't know of any airlines that welcome live amphibians in the cabin as carry-on within a general policy. Please list them if you find them as all of these policies are listed on each airline's website. 

this site lists them as of 2007
How to Fly With Pets - Mahalo

Really if you want to do this (and be 100% sure of a hassle free commute) you need to call your airline ahead of time - they can direct you to the steps you need to take and what exceptions can be made - by trying to "sneak" them on the plane you open yourself up to risk. Even if you find someone else who has been caught, their experience may not reflect your own because, as I said before, the interpretation of these regs is up to the individual TSA agent.

I DO have EXPERIENCE in shipping live animals via the airlines within the last 6 months - that is what I extended to you with the delta dash info. 

With all due respect and just so I get this straight - you are NOW only looking for info from people who have been hassled by TSA regarding PDF's as carry-on?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

melas said:


> With all due respect and just so I get this straight - you are NOW only looking for info from people who have been hassled by TSA regarding PDF's as carry-on?


Yep....the good and the BAD experiences with TSA. Actually I thought that was clear from the start of the thread.

Only frogs or similiar size small herps in deli cups or the like on carry on.

No delta dash. No turtles or alligators or varanids.

No links ect...only personal experiences.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Very well. Either way it seems like a silly question. It's like asking for advice on speeding . . . if you are really concerned about the well being of your animals there are valid options available to you - such as contacting the authorities involved and not relying other's "smuggling" experience. This all just seems like canon fodder for banning exotics if you ask me. Later!


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## jehitch (Jun 8, 2007)

> Originally Posted by jehitch
> Having not read any of the previous threads other posters provided, perhaps I'm stating the obvious, but:
> 
> Why not just ship them air freight from your departure airport to your destination airport the same day you are traveling? When you arrive, you just pick up the frogs from the freight office. Heck, they might even end up in the cargo hold of the plane in which you are traveling.
> ...





Philsuma said:


> Have you actually done this?


No, just wondering why you hadn't considered this route. It seems less worrisome than hoping you don't get stopped by security.



Philsuma said:


> I have shipped lots of tincs before and all have been on the larger size with decent body mass and well fed. Even with these ideal conditions, I lost a few frogs due to both hot and cold conditions. Buyers invariably are upset and it's hard on everyone including the frogs (obviously).
> 
> I am now starting to consider Pumillio and thumbnail types for possible shipping and I'm just trying to get the best method as there are somewhat more delicate. I refuse to go the heat pack / cold pack route. Not happening.


I just had an order come in from FedEx with more than $1,500 worth of animals, mostly frogs, including pumilio, and no causualties. Temp in Florida at shipping was in the high 60s; temp on arrival in Michigan was in the teens. We ship using both heat and room temp gel packs in double boxes during the winter. The gel packs add mass to the inner box, so whether going up or down, any temp change is more gradual. Haven't had anything arrive DOA yet.



Philsuma said:


> Are cargo holds cold? What is the cost for shipping them the way you are describing, jim?


My understanding is that live animals ship in pressurized holds where the temp isn't supposed to drop below 50 degrees. The cost for the shipment above would have been about $100 air freight; Fed Ex was about $25 less. If it had been all pumilio, instead of a mixed shipment, I probably would have gone air freight. But, Fed Ex is good about holding at the destination facility, and I've never had a problem with them.



Philsuma said:


> I would love to be able to take 30 deli cups onto a plane in carry on luggage. It certainly is not Illegal. The most the airline or airport could do is deny you your flight, yes?


But, is it worth the risk of that inconvenience?


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Previously, when I mentioned the word "smuggling", I was NOT implying that anyone was doing anything illegal. I was talking about when an airline has a policy against live animals and you know that but still sneak them on anyway - call it what you will. 

I'd like to apologize to Phil and anyone else that may have been insulted or offended by that remark - I really didn't mean it in that sense.

Next - a simple search of the TSA website resulted in the following link which leads us to TSA's answer to this question.

TSA: Traveling with Pets



> Our security procedures do not prohibit you from bringing a pet on your flight. You should contact your airline or travel agent, however, before arriving at the airport to determine your airline's policy on traveling with pets.
> 
> You will need to present the animal to the Security Officers at the checkpoint. You may walk your animal through the metal detector with you. If this is not possible, your animal will have to undergo a secondary screening, including a visual and physical inspection by our Security Officers.
> 
> Your animal will NEVER be placed through an X-ray machine. However, you may be asked to remove your animal from its carrier so that the carrier can be placed on the X-Ray machine.


So here is the answer. You can take your frogs through security. Have them out for a visual inspection (tell the TSA agent that you need a visual inspection of some pet tropical frogs). It would be advised to use clear plastic cups so that they would not need to be opened. It is stressed that live animals should NOT go through the Xray machine. 

So now you are through security what's next? Well to do this the RIGHT way you REALLY should contact the AIRLINE you will be using BEFORE arriving at the airport. Exceptions can be made and if not maybe they will let your frogs on for a small fee. You could explain that they are very sensitive to temperature and humidity extremes and thus would not be ideal candidates for the cargo area. Also, they can direct you through any further legal issues with doing this - such as the Federal Animal Welfare Act. 

I believe it is best to be honest with the Airlines. There is currently much at stake for the herp industry. There are currently numerous bills being drafted that would seek to restrict our transport and ownership of exotic reptiles and amphibians. By sneaking past the Airline policies we open ourselves up to additional scrutiny should someone be caught or open forums like these be transversed by the likes of PETA or the Humane Society. We have nothing to hide so lets do this by the rules! Thanks!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Thisi is why I suggested checking the frognet archives.. there are at least several instances there where they are asked about the frogs and telling the truth that they are harmless there wasn't any problem..........


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I searched and compiled all the frognet postings relative to this topic and they are all circa 2003, mind you.

Rather than post the lengthy list of them here, I will summerize.

They all recommend announcing that you have live frogs before going thru the x-ray machine and using clear plastic cups (obviously) and labeling them "Harmless Tropical Frogs" wouldn't hurt either.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i wonder how much of fertility is affected by running the frogs through the Xray machine?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Julio said:


> i wonder how much of fertility is affected by running the frogs through the Xray machine?


I read anywhere from "None" to " Some".......

But all the opinions and research points to disclosing the frogs at the security check _*before *_the X-ray machine and allowing security agents to "hand-check" the animals. The hand-check is to make sure the containers aren't dangerous and the animals themselves are not conceiling dangerous items. All polices say that security does NOT wish for any animals to go through the x-ray machine. I do not think this is a radiation concern, after all, human security agents are seated behind these machines all day.


I have read lots of posts on Frognet concerning this and not one single instance of security turning someone away or summoning airline personel.


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## almazan (Jun 6, 2004)

Over the years i have always asked TSA to hand check my frogs and have never had to run them through an x-ray, i have never had a problem either going to or returning from a frog show with animals. hope that helps.
Charles


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

I traveled last weekend with frogs in my carry on luggage. They went through the xray machine in my backpack with no problems at all. I put them in 4 oz clear plastic deli containers with no label, but I was ready with a story for TSA and had a friend willing to pick them up from my car if I had to leave them behind.


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## dart_king (Mar 2, 2008)

whats the story?


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

dart_king said:


> whats the story?


From some advice I got, I was gonna tell them that I had purchased them at a local reptile show for a friend. Simple and not too far from the truth.... well ok, pretty far from true but still simple.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I spoke to a TSA supervisor personally a few days ago. He advised to obtain paperwork from their agency prior to you trip, filling it out and presenting it and any animals at the TSA security screening area (xray).

You will need to tell them that you have LIVE HARMLESS TROPICAL frogs, which is the truth by the way, and they will HAND CHECK them. Live animals are never to be put through the x-ray machine.

Have the frogs in a totally clear deli cup or similar container with a small sheet of paper towel and not Moss or any other conceiling medium.

I'll post again after I make my upcoming trip with more information.


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

Last summer I took 4 jackson chameleons home with me from Maui. I went through all the trouble of pulling permits to bring them home legally.. When i Arrived at the airport to head home, security asked what was in the bird boxes- but it was for their own interests not for security purposes.. they told me to put them in my bag and not let the airline employees see them.. i went through all the trouble of getting the permits for no reason as NOBODY ever even looked at the papers.. The permits allowed me to take them from Hawaii but when i contacted the airlines after aquiring the chameleons they told me absolutely no. I guess what the airline company's dont know wont hurt them.. Just dont take your frogs out while waiting to board or while on the plane and i think you should be fine..


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I travel a ton and hand deliver frogs whenever I can, always shoot right through, frogs in my carry on without a mention from me. As for fertility I have had many frogs breed that were brought home this way, I would say from my experience fertility is absolutley unaffected.


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## MattySF (May 25, 2005)

MELLOWROO421 said:


> From some advice I got, I was gonna tell them that I had purchased them at a local reptile show for a friend. Simple and not too far from the truth.... well ok, pretty far from true but still simple.


How about I breed them and I'm almost giving them to a friend. Even closer.

Thanks again.


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

It was worth the experience!


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Well according to a link that was posted, Continental airlines allows pretty much any harmless animal. They're a larger airline with good prices, why not just use them?


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Apparently Continental allows pretty much any harmless animal. They're a pretty big airline with good prices, why not use them?


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

Because they've crashed two planes in the past 5 months?


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Some more info for consideration . . . 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lounge/39754-snakes-plane.html#post353095


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I *do* know of an instance where TSA noted the frogs, called the airline, the airline said no and the person had to make some [very quick] arrangements to get his frogs back home. 

Best to have a 'Plan B'.


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## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

For those of you that do test the system let's us know how you made out. In past years I have brought snakes from the International show in a plastic carry on bag, tarantulas from Puerto Rico in my back pack, plants that I bought in Hawaii that were supposed to be legal and were never checked, got caught with seed pods in Hawaii and they took the pods and let me brings the seeds back after seperating, seeds and rocks from Beleize pack in my luggage last year and a suitcase full of small volcanic rocks from Hawaii that destroyed the suitcase (I live in North Carolina long flight).


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

TDK said:


> For those of you that do test the system let's us know how you made out. In past years I have brought snakes from the International show in a plastic carry on bag, tarantulas from Puerto Rico in my back pack, plants that I bought in Hawaii that were supposed to be legal and were never checked, got caught with seed pods in Hawaii and they took the pods and let me brings the seeds back after seperating, seeds and rocks from Beleize pack in my luggage last year and a suitcase full of small volcanic rocks from Hawaii that destroyed the suitcase (I live in North Carolina long flight).


 
This thread is for DOMESTIC issues only.

Out of Country / CONUS info / experiences are not going to be discussed here. Sorry that the thread title didn't include that differenciation.


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## frogsanddogs (Jun 21, 2008)

I went to DC last weekend on an impromtu trip to pick up some frogs I purchased a while back. I also was lucky enough to attend the MADS meeting- great to meet all of you... thank you for letting us join in!- and was lucky enough to purchase some more frogs there for myself and a friend. 

It was a total of 12 frogs coming home- 6 bicolors, 4 thumbs and 2 pums which I was able to combine (separate species of course) into a total of 6 containers before leaving with the help of someone at the meeting as they thought that minimizing the number of containers would minimize the likelihood of getting stopped. 

I asked around the meeting for experiences, advice etc on the best way to go through security- and had a plan B and C, and arrived early to allow time to implement them if necessary. In the end, Phil convinced me it would be best to not discuss it with the airline but to give them to airport security to check by hand... he even helped me with perfect verbage that made me comfortable taking the risk of telling them.

So when I got to security, I had them in a separate grocery bag in their clear plastic containers... I picked a line with a younger friendly looking guy doing the screening and I handed the bag to him and said "I have some tropical frogs and they said I should give these to you to hand check". He pulled out one of the containers and looked at the frogs and laughed and said "yeah, that's for sure... you definately wouldn't want them going through the x-ray" and took them over to the hand screening area. I hear him say to one of his co-workers "hey man... come check this out!" By the time I got through with my bags, there were 4 or 5 security guys and gals over there pushing for a view of the frog containers that they were examining and checking out. They were laughing and saying "yeah you don't see that every day" and were clearly enjoying checking the frog containers... and then they put them back into the reusable grocery bag and brought the bag back and handed it back to my son saying "here are your frogs back"... end of story... and we were through... no problems! 

With Phil's help steering me in the right direction with wording, I tweaked it a bit and figured that the security guys would figure when I said "they told me I needed to give these to you to hand check" that they would assume I was referring to the airline and that the airline had ok'd it.. but I did not have to lie by choosing that wording either... so would try it again that way next time for sure as Phil suggested that they would probably enjoy getting to check the frogs and feel important for doing so and that was exactly my experience. Thanks to everyone at the meeting that helped with how to do it, which containers to use and with the actual catching and repackaging to put them in smaller containers for the trip!

Marissa


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## Bob Fraser (Nov 21, 2007)

Hi Marissa
Glad to hear you made it through o.k. , I didn't get a come pick them up call. So I figured you made it or got locked up ;-) Thanks for sharing your experiance & pleasure meeting you & little man.
warmest regards
Bob Fraser


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## frogsanddogs (Jun 21, 2008)

mdsponge21236 said:


> Hi Marissa
> Glad to hear you made it through o.k. , I didn't get a come pick them up call. So I figured you made it or got locked up ;-) Thanks for sharing your experiance & pleasure meeting you & little man.
> warmest regards
> Bob Fraser


Thanks Bob! Bob was the kind man who was my plan B (guess I shortened the post to just call my backups B and C) Bob was kind enough to offer to come pick up the frogs and ship them to me if necessary. He was even willing to drive from Baltimore to DC right away to get them if I did get held up and couldn't make other arrangements with the airline. Your offer made it a lot less stressful taking the risk of drawing attention to the frogs! We really enjoyed meeting all of you as well and we will be sure to come back for another of your meetings when I come to pick up the other frogs and maybe a tank I have purchased from someone else in the area!... next time I will intentionally plan it around one of your meetings as you are a great group!
Marissa


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## hukilausurfer (Aug 31, 2009)

it would be so cool if i could take frogs to Samoa! my fam might be moving there and if we did i wouldnt be able to have darts anymore! unless i smuggled a frog in my pocket. i wonder how hard it would be. this is giving me some ideas! muahaha! (jk)


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Don't some states have laws against transporting animals across state lines. I know Florida does, not sure where your leaving from though. Pretty sure its a law that they do not really enforce.


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