# Species for this paludarium?



## Malm_in_Oslo (Dec 30, 2009)

Hi, 
I originally made this setup for _Rhacodactylus ciliatus_, but have reacentley realized that it is not optimal for this species, so I figured it might be better for some _Lygodactylus williamsii_ and some dart frogs. 

The question then is which species of dart frogs will thrive in this setup, considering the amount and shape of water in this setup?




























Overview of the waterfront before introducing plants: 









Thanksful for all input.

Best regards, 
Martin


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## Morgan Freeman (Feb 26, 2009)

Wooooaaaaahhhhhh beautiful viv! That really is impressive.

I instantly thought Vietnamese Mossy Frogs but I'm not sure on which dart species would work, there's not much ground space so I'm really not sure what would do well with the geckos. Thumbnails would be too small I'd have thought?


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## Geckoguy (Dec 10, 2008)

Thats AWSOME!!!! Sick job... Ill agree with the last comment not really enough ground space for darts but the mossy frog would probly love it. And they would look good in there.

How big is the enclosure?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

I think a small, male heavy group of E. tricolor would do very well in there.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Any of the tricolors or galacts or even some of the smaller phyllobates would do very well in that viv.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

great viv!! what are the diemensions?


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## Malm_in_Oslo (Dec 30, 2009)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Wooooaaaaahhhhhh beautiful viv! That really is impressive.
> 
> I instantly thought Vietnamese Mossy Frogs but I'm not sure on which dart species would work, there's not much ground space so I'm really not sure what would do well with the geckos. Thumbnails would be too small I'd have thought?





Geckoguy said:


> Thats AWSOME!!!! Sick job... Ill agree with the last comment not really enough ground space for darts but the mossy frog would probly love it. And they would look good in there.
> 
> How big is the enclosure?





Julio said:


> great viv!! what are the diemensions?


Thanks alot guys! Moss frogs are great, and there might even be room for a couple of those little buggers if things work out nicely...but I really hope to find some kind of darts that can fit into this thing. 

The ground is 80cm (31.5 inches) x 75cm (28.5), of which half is ground approx... and the hight is 110cm (43.5)



stemcellular said:


> I think a small, male heavy group of E. tricolor would do very well in there.





ggazonas said:


> Any of the tricolors or galacts or even some of the smaller phyllobates would do very well in that viv.


Glad to hear it! Both nice frogs, but are they able to swim? Would they survive jumping out into the water? I would think some of the lager genuses would do better, but then again that is why I ask you guys 


Best regards, 
Martin


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

I did go with what Stemcellular highly on this one. The Tris would love the back ground and are light enough even if they fall into the water that any of the floating plants could hold them up. Plus they have a very beautiful call, and breed like rabbits...


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Nicely done. I really like your choice of plants. A good variety!


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## cheezus_2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

im mind blown... this thing is SEXY! dangggggg! wish it were mine  made props on the viv thats for sure


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I second/third the tricolors - awesome, loud, bold, very underappreciated frogs. I would not put any mossy frogs in that viv - they would really tear up the plants.


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## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

Well it is a beautiful viv , I think a few things should be considered, the geckos and the frogs you want to mix come from half way around the world from each other. Most people frown upon mixed tanks. The geckos are going to need small crickets and you will notice fast that crickets love water and are dumb , so they will drown and contaminate the water area fast. If they dont drown then they could harm the frogs potentially. If you are still keen on mixing you may want to consider mantellas and a smaller day gecko species . . .. Most mantellas that Ive kept loved small crickets so they might be more likley to eat left overs from the geckos . . .

just my two cents

again though beautiful viv


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## Malm_in_Oslo (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks again folks! Worked a lot with the setup, so glad you like it.

A friend of mine keeps tricolors, and as mentioned they call and breed like crazy, but I think the calling might be a bit too much for me... I've heard his frogs, and considering this setup is in the livingroom, it might be a bit to much sound for the woman to appriciate 

But there got to be other suitable small species? How about pumilio or reticulatus? 

Concerning the mixing of species, I know this to be frowned upon, but cince the tank is so large I figured the small williamsii would ceep to the top half and the frogs to the bottom. As far as I know the williamsii can live on fruitflies alone, so that was kind of the plan here, but it might also be nice to go for some cool small phelsumas, though I litterally LOVE the color of the williamsii!

And there are various fishes in the water area, and a heavily over sized pump to take care of any flies that end up in the water.

Really appreciate all the feedback!

Best regards, 
Martin

PS: A complete "how it was built" thread with lots of pics can be found here:
Reptilweb • Se emne - Malms regnskogelvebreddspaludarium


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Beautifull viv!

I was looking at your build thread. You used metal to shape the walls?

If it was metal was it Stainless steel or Aluminum?

Thanks


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## Malm_in_Oslo (Dec 30, 2009)

frogfreak said:


> Beautifull viv!
> 
> I was looking at your build thread. You used metal to shape the walls?
> 
> ...


Hey and thanks! It is aluminum, covererd then in aquarium silicone.


Best regards, 
Martin


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## Suzanne (Dec 28, 2008)

Hi Martin! First of all, you certainly are not the first to try a combination of a daygecko and dartfrogs. I'm sure you can succeed if you consider certain things: provide enough feeding stations for the gecko and the frogs to choose from, to prevent competition. Since the gecko will need other vitamins (less vitamin A), it is important to provide different mineral/vitamin supplementation for both. You can achieve this by feeding in different places.
Also, don't feed large crickets. Small crickets shouldn't be a problem, since tricolors/anthonyis, azureiventris and phyllobates will eat these as well. A bit variation is good thing, for both gecko and dartfrogs.
Try to find a species that stays out of the gecko's range (So, no climbers). In a tank that size, the floorsurface is large enough too keep a smaller terrestrial species. Have you thought of azureiventris? Great little frogs, nice call, can be held in groups or couples. If they call, it will usually be in the morning. They are considered a good alternative beginner frog here in the Netherlands. Not as aggressive as tricolors can be, and they tend to stay more on the bottom of the tank. I've kept them in a group of 3, in a 80cm (length) x 40cm (depth) x 40 cm (high) tank.
I would not recommend reticulates or pumilios, since they are more difficult. They will not eat small crickets and are more prone to changes in the environment (humidity, temperature). They also are less bold than other mentioned species.


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

Cryptophyllobates azurventris, tricolors, even most thumbnails if you made the water shallower. They should spend most of the time on the back wall anyway.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Martin, are _Norops aquaticus_ available where you are? Might need to do a little searching to find them...but I think a setup with them and a group of _Phyllobates vittatus_ (a species associated with streambanks, loud and gregarious, etc.) would would well. Both species share the same distribution in Costa Rica.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

skylsdale said:


> Martin, are _Norops aquaticus_ available where you are? Might need to do a little searching to find them...but I think a setup with them and a group of _Phyllobates vittatus_ (a species associated with streambanks, loud and gregarious, etc.) would would well. Both species share the same distribution in Costa Rica.


I second Ron on the vittatus. They have an even more gorgeous call then the tricolors but it is a softer trill. Really nice. They are also bold, gregarious frogs that can take a large waxworm as well as a melanogaster. They would do very well in your setup since they can also navigate water very well (and will breed in the tank without abandon).


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

I say retic's only concern would be drowning which you could fix by lowering the water level and williamsi would do great in that tank.


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

skylsdale said:


> Martin, are _Norops aquaticus_ available where you are? Might need to do a little searching to find them...but I think a setup with them and a group of _Phyllobates vittatus_ (a species associated with streambanks, loud and gregarious, etc.) would would well. Both species share the same distribution in Costa Rica.


Are N. aquaticus in the US at all? If you know of anyone who keeps true rainforest anolis please contact me!

Sorry for the thread deviation! ;-)


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## Malm_in_Oslo (Dec 30, 2009)

Happy New Year frog people!

Can't say that I've seen any _Norops aquaticus_ here, but I'm sure I'll find some in Germany, so thats always a possibility...

I've not though of azureiventris, but they are nice, and sounds like they would do fine in this setup. The same goes for vittatus, and especially anthonyis, so there should be some options here then.

The temperature should be quite stable, with a small drop at night, and humidity should not be a problem as the misting system goes on 3-4 times during the day. That they don't eat crickets is just a plus, as I'd rather not have loose crickets in the setup as they tend to eat on the plants, and I keep a lot of small orchids and other cool plans... So if there is a possibillity to keep either retics or pumilios, I would prefer these, just for superficial reasons. But if they are more prone to drowning, then it is not so cool... So these do not swim at all? There are three mangrove roots stikking up from the water that they can climb up on, or some of the floating plants, wich I also intend to get some lagrer species of like the water hyasinth, if this will help them survive better...?

Regarding lowering the water level, I would rather not do that since I want to keep fishes also, and there is little enough water as it is...

Thanks again!

Best regards, 
Martin


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Hi Martin, I know of someone keeping them who lives in the Netherlands, so you might be able to find them closer to you than Germany.

Not sure if you have any ideas yet regarding fish, but if you have some open surface area with some larger leaves hanging over the water some Splash Tetras (Copella spp.) would make an interesting addition to the water area.


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## ghettopieninja (Jul 29, 2008)

I agree that azureiventris or some of the epipedobates would do well in this as they often are found in more rocky riparian habitats and like large water bodies. I would not go with pumilio or retics, although both of these species do climb a bit they really need a deep layer of leaf litter and usually aren't found far from the forest floor. I think splash tetras would be an excellent addition to the water area, you could also look at other nano fish like some of the micro rasboras and smaller tetra species like the splash or ember tetras, killiefish could also do well in here. I would also definitely think about included a shrimp species. alternatively if you decide not to go the rout of dendrobates I think this enclosure would be perfect for vampire crabs (Geosesarma sp). These small crabs are really cool because they utilize the whole ensure climbing on the background and hanging out in the water. Also they have the same diet as dendrobates.

on a side note I too am very interested in smaller tropical anolis sp. If anyone has any good contacts please let me know!


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Some Dario Dario would love it in water sectio plus the males are stunning.Have you thought about some of the smaller boophis species I think they would do great.
Boophis rappiodes comes to mind.Also maybe some rhampholeon acuminatus just add some branches in the water area's so they could climb out if they fell in.


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## Malm_in_Oslo (Dec 30, 2009)

The splashing tetras are great, but hard to find here in Norway... But I'm building a new tank now, with a similar but different layout, and there just might be room for them there if I can find some. Small danios also of course, but there are sooo many nice fishes, so the water area will never be a problem 

In this one I now keep 15 _Nonnostomus eques_, 12 _Corydoras habrosus_, 5 _Fundulopanchax gardneri_ and some _Ancisterus_ sp. Ther is also some snails and crustaceans, so it is quite full at at the moment as it is, but is works perfectley.

_Boophis_ sp has not crossed my mind, but various _rampheleon_ species have been considered along with _Chamaeleo hoehnelii_, but for theses species I would need to add a lot of smaller branches, and I don't think I want that for this setup... But I used to ceep brevicaudatus, and they are really cool!

But rearding darts only for this setup (in addition to either Lygodactylus or Pelsuma), the consensus seems to be that I should go for either _Cryptophyllobates azureiventris_, _Phyllobates vittatus_, _Epipedobates tricolor_ or some other Epiedrobates species. Any additions?


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

Any updates on this (very beautiful) setup?
I'm probably too late but I would suggest C. azureiventris also


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