# 29 vert - concepts and design



## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

I have a 29g aquarium thats currently collecting dust, so I'm contemplating turning it into a viv/orchidarium.

Ive played around with a few different designs... but ultimately I want something that can maintain a very stable temp, lots of air circulation, and high humidity. Its gonna be a vert. A picture is worth a thousand words... so rather than explain the design, I'll just show you:











Theres a VERY small section of screen at the top of the tank. With a lot of airflow inside the tank, I feel like there would be a good bit of air exchange through the small screen. 











I labeled a few of the internal goodies, just for clarification. Also, I plan on having the heating cord submerged and possibly a sponge of some kind on the bottom to help the water evaporate faster. 


Let me know what you think. Criticism and comments would be greatly appreciated. I want to come up with a really solid design before I start construction.


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## denfrogs (Dec 10, 2007)

To me it looks great,
I do have a few questions though. 
your internal air flow looks like a great idea however
i would recomend you put some kind of an over flow in the tanks 
because the way it looks the air flow will be cut off if the water level reaches the false bottom. 
also you might consider doing a vent along the bottom edge of the front in addition to the one you have on top.


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks for the prompt response denfrogs 

Good point about the drainage hole. Clearance between the false bottom and water level would be essential.

About the screen towards the bottom- I noticed the European style vivs have this. Is this just to keep condensation off the glass or does it serve additional purpose?

thanks


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## denfrogs (Dec 10, 2007)

I have not built one myself 
but from what i gather it serves two purposes 
one is in fact to keep condensation of the front. 
the other is to create added air flow through the viv from outside the tank.
right now you have great air circulation (inside) but not much in the way of ventilation to the outside air.
by adding a vent to the bottom you create a path for air, to flow into and out of your viv.


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

looks good !i wish i would have thought of air circulation when building mine.


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

that looks great to me. 

are you planning on placing some sort of guard to prevent dirt or roots from clogging the fan props? what about making the fan replaceable if it corrodes from the moisture and then stops working?


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## denfrogs (Dec 10, 2007)

Link3898 said:


> that looks great to me.
> 
> are you planning on placing some sort of guard to prevent dirt or roots from clogging the fan props? what about making the fan replaceable if it corrodes from the moisture and then stops working?


good point,
you should look into a water proof fan.


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks Link, Ive been looking at the adda water proof fans. Making the fan accessible, yet guarded, is something that Ive been mulling over, but haven't come up with a good enough solution yet.


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

denfrogs said:


> good point,
> you should look into a water proof fan.


is there such a thing?if so anyone have a link?


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

Here you go iridebmx: http://www.addausa.com/waterfan/AQ FAN BROCHURE.JPG

These are the ones Ive been looking at.


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## Darryl (Dec 2, 2005)

If you lokk at the design of the european vivs, the vent draws air from under the door support.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...tructing-euopean-type-vivarium-step-step.html

If you simply mount the fan alng along one of it's narrow side onto the back wall, this will push the air around the inside and thereby mixing and stabilising the overall temp.

If you do fit an over flow in the base, make sure that you still maintain at least a minimum of 1" of water, the larger the body of water, the more this acts as a heat reservoir to stabilize the internal temperatures of the the viv.


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks Darryl -your european viv construction thread is fantastic! I chose to channel air beneath the false bottom to humidify the air via the water that collects in the bottom. So the idea is to use water in the base of the viv more proactively for humidity and temp control, rather than letting the bottom compartment become stagnant. I feel like these would be pretty significant benefits over a fan mounted on the wall. I really like the screen beneath the door design, although it would complicate an already complicated design... so I want to avoid that.

I came up with a few modifications to my design that would take up less space and also provide easier access to the fan. I'll post the sketches when I finish.


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## Darryl (Dec 2, 2005)

Another option is to keep to a simple false base/sump and then pump the water over a wet wall. This will keep the water from laying stagnant and also increase the humidity.


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

Darryl -I really like that idea. I'm not sure how I would go about constructing something like that though... I'm thinking a spray bar would be ideal to distribute the water evenly over the wall. But what material would be good for the actual wet wall? and I want to avoid a waterlogged substrate, so I would need to separate the wet wall with a divider of some kind... any ideas?

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

Made some modifications. The biggest difference is that now the air intake is pulling air from the outside. In practice I may need to use a low CFM fan so the air has some time to humidify before entering the viv. So, maybe another fan (higher CFM) could also be mounted from the ceiling if I want more internal air circulation. Here is the design thus far:




























If I use a loose substrate (LECA, fir bark, etc.) I could get suck air through the substrate by constricting the front intake. That could have some real benefits...


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## clwatkins10 (Nov 15, 2008)

Very cool design. I look forward to the build


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## Darryl (Dec 2, 2005)

capitale said:


> Darryl -I really like that idea. I'm not sure how I would go about constructing something like that though... I'm thinking a spray bar would be ideal to distribute the water evenly over the wall. But what material would be good for the actual wet wall? and I want to avoid a waterlogged substrate, so I would need to separate the wet wall with a divider of some kind... any ideas?


I would use something like EpiWeb for the wet wall...

I hope the image below is self explanatory, with regards to the seporator to stop the substrate becoming waterlogged.


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks Darryl -I appreciate the drawing, I see how the separator is working. I hadnt heard about epiweb before your mention of it in the previous post; that stuff looks very cool and I'm seriously considering using it for this viv.

I'm in the process of deciding on what materials to use for construction. I want to keep lots of orchids in this viv, hence the emphasis on ventilation/circulation. So heres the materials list as it stands:

Substate: I want to use a very coarse substrate that allows for good drainage and air movement... So I'll probably use some kind of orchid potting mix. Lots of fir bark, maybe some LECA, a bit of coir and some sphagnum moss for moisture retention.

Background: Epiweb or tree fern root panels. I want to be able to mount epiphytes directly on the background. I'm leaning towards the tree fern panels because the epiweb looks a bit too sterile and unnatural for a naturalistic viv. I don't see any real advantages to using epiweb other than that it doesnt degrade, but from what Ive read, tree fern panels will last plenty long enough for me.

Decoration/furniture: I really like the epiweb branches, I think I'm going to use the large one (~24") and grow moss and epiphytes on it. I'll probably collect some local driftwood as well.


Any thoughts or comments appreciated


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## chelskisw6 (Nov 27, 2008)

very cool designs! any new developments? 

have you thought about a drainage hole at all? (sorry if i missed it). But in the second design if the water gets too high it would reach the vents on the front...

looking forward to hearing some news of this project, looks great!


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

chelskisw6 said:


> very cool designs! any new developments?
> 
> have you thought about a drainage hole at all? (sorry if i missed it). But in the second design if the water gets too high it would reach the vents on the front...
> 
> looking forward to hearing some news of this project, looks great!


Thanks chelskisw6. I'll probably drill a hole ~1/4" below the vent opening and feed an airline tube into it for drainage (didn't include the hole in the drawing). 

I'm still contemplating some design aspects and construction materials... I want to make an arboreal style setup and I'm still deciding how I should handle the bottom/substrate and what type of plants to use. I'm trying to decide between:

a.) shallow water bottom
b.) Tree fern root or Cork bottom (simulating the surface of a branch)
c.) Using a more conventional substrate mix

If I go with 'a' or 'b' I will be using entirely epiphytic plants. Option 'c' would allow me to add some nice tall terrestrial plants that would utilize the height of the viv. I'm torn... can't decide.

Ive also been toying with the idea of using an air pump driven method instead of the current design. 

At any rate, this semester is coming to a close, so I'll be starting construction in the next few weeks.


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

So Ive been playing around with some ideas on air circulation and ventilation... I'm considering using an air pump to deliver a constant fresh air supply to the viv without decreasing the humidity too much. Heres a design I came up with, has anyone used anything similar to this?


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## onefstsnake (Jul 31, 2008)

There was a company that sold something like what you just posted. I bought one and put it in my 75g tank.

Didnt see much change. But in a smaller tank you might see an increase in humidity. I would get a pretty big pump though.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

onefstsnake said:


> There was a company that sold something like what you just posted. I bought one and put it in my 75g tank.
> 
> Didnt see much change. But in a smaller tank you might see an increase in humidity. I would get a pretty big pump though.



This is the only Commercially available Unit that I have seen


The Manufacturer recommends on use up to 50 Gallons only

I was going to do a DIY project to simulate a larger reservoir Tank and Multiple outlets to different Tanks before I moved but I have yet to do it. I use 5 Gallon and 7.5 Gallon Plastic Buckets in my homebrewing, so Iwas gonna use one of them.

My observations..I don't believe that the sponge is actually needed. Look at the picture..The Maximum fill line is high. I don't see how the bursting bubbles will actually keep the Sponge Moist, since most of the time it is submerged.


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## clwatkins10 (Nov 15, 2008)

The sponge probably gives more surface area for the water to evaporate into the air


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

clwatkins10 said:


> The sponge probably gives more surface area for the water to evaporate into the air


Exactly, air passing through a wet sponge will pick up a lot more water vapor than air being bubbled through water.

I didn't know this sort of thing was commercially available... I'll have to look into getting one of those vs. building my own.


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## capitale (Nov 7, 2008)

onefstsnake said:


> There was a company that sold something like what you just posted. I bought one and put it in my 75g tank.
> 
> Didnt see much change. But in a smaller tank you might see an increase in humidity. I would get a pretty big pump though.


The intention was to provide a fresh air supply (for the plants), not to increase humidity. I imagine it would help keep the temp down too.


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