# Duff's 56g Column Paludarium Build



## Duff

Yea! I finally got off my "duff" and purchased my dream tank. I played around with a 37g tank quickly realized the 12" of depth was not enough for my liking. So I splurged and a new Marineland 56g Column tank and I am in love with it! 30w x 18d x 24 Tall. 

I have also ordered what looks to be a wonderful piece of wood (more log'ish then wood) that should arrive tomorrow. I plan to use egg crate and pvc risers to lay the wood across and then use GS to adhere it to the egg crate. I am hoping to have the wood off the bottom by a few inches so water flows completely under the wood with few obstructions. There will be a false bottom but it will be above the water and separated by 2" of Poret Foam and then weed block and then ABG mix on about 2/3 of the tank and the other 3rd will be a shallow marginal area. I am hoping this will work as I've read so much about water/land barriers leaking I wanted to avoid that type of set up if possible, but I may have no choice once I see the actual wood. 

Background will most likely be simple cork bark and a few pieces of wood or vines. For the sake of planting space, I plan to skip a water feature other then the bottom water portion. 

Todd at LYR is helping with lighting and hopefully will be using his new LED bulb  Excited to try it out!

I'll be drilling the tank for external filtering (Old Rena I have on hand) and then a few fans. No plans for misting system at this point but who knows, maybe at a later date.

So here is the pretty pretty tank! 



















I'd like to take out the center brace, anyone have an opinion as to if I should/can? 

With 6 inches of water at the most I think I can get away with removing it - thoughts/concerns appreciated!


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## kevin575

I don't think it would hurt the tank if you take out the center brace. With only 6" of water, the plastic borders should have more than enough strength to handle it. But that's just my opinion from looking at the Exo-terra. My tank is 24x18x24, and can hold 6" of water, and there is no center brace. Granted it would be pointless to have one since the front opens.

(subscribed)


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## Trickishleaf

I hacksawed the center brace out of my 55 gallon to afix a door. It's setup as a vert, but I haven't encountered any problems and it's been setup for about 8 months.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Duff

Hey Kevin, never thought of that in terms of tank size, thanks! So basically we have the same tank size, give or take 6 inches. 

Thanks Trickisleaf! 

I will be hack sawing the center brace away!


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## therizman2

Looks very nice! I actually used to have that exact same tank from Marineland as my living room show tank until I replaced it with a 125g


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## Duff

Thanks Mike, Would love a 125 but barring space this one had a great foot print! Do you have any pictures of your old 56g set up?

So my wood arrived - so excited as it's really what I was hoping for. Played around with it a bit and it does need to be trimmed a bit to fit. Good news, when the top part is horizontal the sides have a nice curve to them for the outflow/intake. 

I am wondering if the outflow and intake should be on the same side or one on back corner of the tank, hmmm... Any suggestions? 



















I think is close to the final placement in the tank:


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## therizman2

Very cool piece of wood! Sadly I do not have any pics of it, that was several computers ago when I had it. I know someone on the board bought it, but I dont remember who and never saw them post any pics of it once they had it. I had a big waterfall and a small pond though... was my first tank so I spent way too much time on it, and would never do something with a pump again, but it was pretty nice.


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## hydrophyte

This looks like a good start! The 56 Column is a real nice size and shape.


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## Duff

Ha, totally understand the pump issue! Too bad about the tank pictures but nice that you were able to pass it along. But it is amazing how much learning goes on in a first tank. I am glad I started small, it's been an eye opener on the things I want in futures tanks. 

I debated a waterfall but then decided against it but I may end up with a drip wall with a really small pump and then actually use my Eheim 2211 plumbed. I did also debate on using an internal pump for filtration then reality hit, I don't think a wise move based on the experiences I've from other threads. 

I think I have the idea for the wood, I covered the back on touch n' foam (learned from my first tank to keep substrate away from wet wood where possible) and will use more to make a base to stand better the way I want it (using 3 internal risers for stability, then carve a notch section in the foam to insert the egg crate and then foam the egg crate in place. So in the end the foam will be the actual support and then keep both ends open for water flow in the front and the back. I think I plan to leave the base as un-carved foam as I plan to use eco-complete for substrate in the water section so I think it will go unnoticed over time. I think by doing this I will keep the 2 bulkheads closer to each other on the back and hopefully create a circular water flow throughout the tank.


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## Duff

The support is done and the final placement decision has been made! Forgive the two tone look - I ran out of the black foam last night and had GS on hand so I charged ahead.

I did end up creating a ledge for the egg crate on the back of the wood and pretty happy with it all in all. Once the bulkheads are drilled I will foam the egg crate in place and "smoosh"the foam before it dries to create a slope for water run off and more of a solid barrier from the water where I trimmed the foam. I just need to cut and drill holes in a few risers for support. 




























And then the front shot showing the water line. I finally settled on 4.5" of water (just about 10g)


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## Duff

I finally kick started this project! After much consideration, I changed the layout and plan a bit. The original wood took up too much space. So after several months of playing around with ideas I finally settled on a paludarium with about 6 inches of water. The inlet and outflow are hidden by the 2 blobs in each corner so when you look at it you won't notice them. The entire back is open for fish and such and I did manage to get holes drilled for bulkheads, fans and electrical cord for heater and mini pump for a drip wall. A total PITA to drill the 5 holes in 1/2 thick glass but glad I decided to go this route and have external plumbing.

More carving to be done and will cover the base rocks in Drylok. 




























Below I added 2" of foam on top of the egg crate and am in the process of building up the "wall" to hold the substrate in. The "wall" going into the water will be carved and not quite so lumpy...


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## Duff

oops -one more shot from the front! Blue tape is the water line...


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## Duff

I've made a bit more headway. Not the best photos due to it being so light out but at least shows I've made headway. Background is about 90 % dry but will let it sit for a few more days before adding a few more accents ( Branches and such). I feel much better now that the background is nearly done. I figure one more coat of TB3 and coco/tree fern mix on the lower parts will finish the background. Waterline is a bit higher now (5-6 inches) and I will drill holes for drip wall during the week. I plan to use small stones glues to the flat surfaces to get the water flowing in the right areas. Tested the left wall with a turkey baster and it worked out pretty well.


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## Kalakole

looking good!


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## jjm71586

wow this is a really cool build I subbed


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## Duff

Thanks Guys! 

I've made a bit more headway and the background is rock hard now. I hope to find a friend or two to help me get it on it's stand this weekend. I still need to drill holes in the background for the drip wall to the left but will do that after the tank is in place and the filter and water is added. I have a few spots where the branches meet the "trees" that need to be covered and the log at the bottom will end up being about an 1inch above the water line. 

I've left the middle mostly open for vines and such and then as much cork planting space for Orchids and ferns. I hope the open middle section (once grown in) the look of depth to the tank - like looking through trees... Time will tell!

I'm dying to get this thing planted as it's taken me forever to get motivated on a layout.

Thanks for looking!


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## Duff

One more - note a great shot again but hard to hold the light above the tank while trying to hold the camera. Hopefully a better front shot.


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## hydrophyte

Hey that's looking great Duff. I like the concept.

And you painted your nails.


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## Duff

Thanks Devin! A girls gotta do what a girls gotta do to hide the ugly remains of GS!


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## kevin575

Looking Awesome!


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## toaddrool

awesome, I also hate the typical 12" depths.


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## Duff

Thanks Kevin, Toaddrool! I am so happy I went with a tank with a depth of 18"!

More headway today. Water tested again, after moving to the stand last night. Hooked up the rena and got very slow flow, realized several o-rings are shot as it's sat around for about a year now in the garage. So I added an internal filter while I wait for new 0-rigns to arrive. 

The water is about 1.5 inches lower then the final level as I still need to add substrate but you get the idea. Over all I am very happy. Hopefully tomorrow I will start adding plants. The lighting still sucks in the photos as I am using a temporary shop light. Still undecided on final lighting but once I move the plants out of my grow out tank I'll use the t5 HO light from that tank. 

The wood in the water on the right side bottom will be moved to the waterfall side (show in 1st photo) once it's waterlogged. It keeps floating away when on the left! I added it to keep the waterfall from splashing and it actually does a pretty good job.


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## SDRiding

Looks great! Can really do alot with that size tank. I'm planning on using the same dimensions on my next build, so seeing yours is a good inspiration!


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## my_shed

Looks ace  I'm planning to steal a few bits of inspiration from this when I do a bigger viv!

Dave


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## toaddrool

Wow, its looking awesome!!


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## Duff

I managed to get a few plants in last night and once the sun comes up today will add more. I am so excited that this tank has finally come together! I'm also working on a plant list (mostly orchids and vines and a few ferns). I also did a moss mix on some of the rock wall and land areas on the sides. I figure it was best to get them down now and once they start to grow in I will finish the drip wall. 

Thx for the compliment guys!


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## Duff

I was able to find time this pas week and add a few more plants. after watching it for a week, it seems as though I may need to add another fan to the tank. I'm still hand misting daily but the top is staying a bit too dry. The water fall area is still not u and running in hopes of letting the moss take hold. Hurry up and wait


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## kevin575

Wow! that's looking great!


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## Duff

Not much of any update to give on the tank. 

It's still settling in and I am sorting out the air flow and watering needs. New lights arrive this week (LYR LED's) and I hope that helps even things out. 

I've managed to do a bit of damage to my oak leaf ficus and another fern given to me by a fellow member (Sorry Kevin, it was happy until I put it in the tank!). But I did get a few interesting sprouts from the corks bark. Mostly stray grasses, one stalk at a time but this morning I found this  I know nothing of mushrooms - Anyone have an idea of what type it is?


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## KRich Frogger

Looks awesome, I have a pair of Vietnamese mossy frogs that are very jealous


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## Duff

Thanks! I have a tank that is very jealous you have two mossy frogs! 

If I ever slow down enough at work, I'll end up with a few of them. I actually built the tank with mossy frog in mind  

How long have you had yours? Do you have any pictures to share?


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## Blk

Looks awesome!


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## KRich Frogger

I have had them a little over a year now, they are by far my favorite of my tree frogs to watch eat. When a cricket is with in there reach they will start taping one of there back toes really fast, and then launch. Sorry for the bad camera pics couldn't get a great photo =(


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## Elphaba

Hi Duff,

The tank looks excellent so far. =) Can't wait to see what time does to it!

What's that plant up in the upper left? The one with the pink flowers? Is that a gesneriad of some kind?

Best,
Ash


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## Raptor22

I love how you set up this tank, it has a "peering through the trees" look that makes it feel much more natural. It is certainly going to be a source of inspiration in the future.


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## Duff

@ KRich - I'm in love with your mossies!!!! I saw my first one in person last summer and immediately fell in love - Have you found them easy to care for? You need to start a thread on them and post more, more, more  about them 

@ Ash Many thanks! it's a bit barren now but should take shape in the upcoming months. Once I get a bit more time to focus on plants (and new light) I hope to growth kick in . On the plant - it's actually a vine plant - I'll try to find my plant notes tomorrow and get the name for you. It's not a flower, rather the underside of the plant is pink in color. It's my favorite vine but a slow grower for me ...

@Raptor, thank you so much! That was the idea  the space between the water and land will be used for mosses and a water land transitional area and my hope is that over time it will look less like a "drop off" and more natural looking... Only time will tell but I appreciate your feedback !

Ash - here's a picture of the mother plant in my grow out tank tanked last fall: Still can't fine the name of it! Maybe someone will recognize it...


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## Duff

Not much going on with growth - I'm still sorting out the watering schedule and such. I finally got my lighting and ended up going with (3) 13w LED's from Todd over at LYR. I like them very much. Then realized the glass top I have had a black hinge... ugh. I ordered clear in hopes of getting rid of the shading that it creates down the middle of the tank. If the clear does not work I'll end up going flipping the glass so the largest part is on the back side.

I also finally received my o-rings for my Rena Filter and it works like a charm! I took the small temporary internal pump out and am just using the Rena. Now that part is sorted out it was time to add fish. They are all hiding but I managed to find 5 Threadfin rainbow's at a LFS. They are such pretty little fish! Though, I did have to turn the flow down on the Rena. It was really strong and they did not look too happy. 

I also took out the fern on the left side as it was really unhappy and replaced it with baby tears (Not sure of the specific name) but it's quite happy to have wet feet (it's on either side of the tank just above the water level. 

Next step is to add Hygrolon to the water fall area and install the little pump. hopefully I'll get that done this weekend. 

Not a great picture but give an idea of how it's doing 

Thanks for looking and I welcome any feedback.

Duff


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## pet-teez

Oh so snazzy!


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## diggenem

That came up nicely, great job.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## volcano23000

I thought I was the only person who uses "snazzy"

Great tank duff!


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## Duff

Snazzy, LOL that's a word from the past! Thank you for the kind words!

So it's time for an update. I've still not gotten around to finishing the drip wall in the corner but I am one step closer. I cut hygrolon and will be tacking it down and then adding moss to it. I tried it without the hygrolon and it dried out to quickly. 

Here is a full tank shot and a few extra. I working on a plant listing with numbers and hope to finish it tomorrow. 



Another crazy mushroom popped up earlier this weel. they seem to last about 4 days. 


A Brom decided it was happy and pupped along with growing a few new roots. I thought I killed my oak leaf ficus but after cutting it back today I found a few new leaves and a few that are still hanging on.


Another Brom putting out roots


This little guy put out one new leaf and quite a few new roots 


More happy Orchid roots (finally starting to take hold)


Here's the right side looking down. Don't mind the fork - It's my ultra useful plant tool  


A few more happy roots



Hope to clear it up a bit more and add a few new vines to the tank tomorrow. It's slow going but at least there is growth going on!

Duff


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## KRich Frogger

Still in love with this


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## kevin575

Nice plants! Looking forward to the plant list and where you got them. 

Granted with how long my build may take, I might be able to buy some clippings from you, lol.


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## Duff

Thanks KRich! At least there are two of us that love it!  

Kevin - here you go a listing of plants finally! Took me quite some time to find them all. I have been taking pictures of the plants when I receive them along with the tag or bag they come in but it was a pain to look through all the old photos. I tend to take many many pictures of anything and everything and had to sort through 14 months of photos that equaled about 2500 photos. I really need to come up with a better way to organize them all. 

Here goes (please forgive any misspellings) 



1. Soleirolia Helxine (Baby Tears) and some Riccia at the waters edge.
2. Bulbophyllum Odentopelatum (Cutting)
3. Cryptanthus "Pixie"
4. Bulbophyllum Purpurascens
5. Microgamma Sp.
6. Dischidia Hirsuta (small cutting)
7. Dendrobium Lamyaiae
8. Neoregelia "Midget"
9. Bulbophyllum (Sp. Unknown) 
10. Dendrobium Jenkinsii
11. Ficus Pumila var. Minima
12. Quercifilix Zeylanica (?)
13. Dendrochilum Smithianum
14. Cirropetalum Sp. Red
15. Scaphosepalum Cimex
16. Cirropetalum Campanulatum
17. Bulbophyllum Mirum
18. Selaginella Erythropus Sanguina
19. Begonia Prismatocarpa
20. Unknown plant...
21. Salvina Natans


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## Duff

More updates:

I moved a few things around and edited and added a few more orchids

The Bulbophyllum Purpurascens was moved over to the left side of the tank and in it's place I added a Dendrobium dichaeoides.


A lot more growth and finally the moss at the top of the wall into the water is growing down and the Hemianthus callitrichoides is growing up! I also added the Microgamma from my other tank to the mid background of this tank and so far it seems happy. 








Duff


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## kev1962

looks great, I'm currently researching my first ever Palu, did you ever get the fish in as I've not spotted them in any of the pics. How do you feed the plants?


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## Duff

Hey Kev, Thanks! I do have 5 threadfin's in it. They all hide when I take pictures. The whole bottom is open, like a circle around the land part allowing me a larger water volume, just under 12g (44L) plus a pretty big canister filter (rena xp2). They often hang out in the back of the tank under the land area. The tank sits next to my desk and when I am not moving in front of the tank they are in the front section all the time. They are also juveniles and quite hard to see when they are out. 2 are starting to show yellow at the tips of their fins so hopefully they become easier to see with more time  

Right now, I am only misting the orchids roots with RO water (with 1/8 strength fertilizer added to it) since they are all in growth mode right now. (no other animals in the tank other then the fish). 

The hardest part (at least for me) on setting up this tank was sorting out the land and the water. I decided to go with land above water (separated by 2" of poret foam) so I would still have good drainage of the substrate. It does make the land area look funky but there is a plan in the awkwardness of it all. Once the land moss and the HC grown in better, I have a few Orchids that can be grown on the moss to give it a more natural look, like an eroded streambed. I suspect it will be a few more months before that happens but there both finally taking hold and merging closer together! 

Good luck with your research! And if you do start a build be sure to post all about it  

Duff


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## BlueDacnis1

Looking good Duff, no resurrection fern in there yet! i love mine!

Regards Jerry A


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## Duff

Hi Jerry! I totally forgot to take a picture of it, but it's in there and doing well so far. I'll have to get a picture of it. I put it at the top of the water fall where it will get lots of humidity and the fan on the left is hiding it in the above photo.

I am so happy to hear yours is doing well. Any pictures of the tank you put it in? 

Duff


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## kev1962

Duff said:


> Hey Kev, Thanks! I do have 5 threadfin's in it. They all hide when I take pictures. The whole bottom is open, like a circle around the land part allowing me a larger water volume, just under 12g (44L) plus a pretty big canister filter (rena xp2). They often hang out in the back of the tank under the land area. The tank sits next to my desk and when I am not moving in front of the tank they are in the front section all the time. They are also juveniles and quite hard to see when they are out. 2 are starting to show yellow at the tips of their fins so hopefully they become easier to see with more time
> 
> Right now, I am only misting the orchids roots with RO water (with 1/8 strength fertilizer added to it) since they are all in growth mode right now. (no other animals in the tank other then the fish).
> 
> The hardest part (at least for me) on setting up this tank was sorting out the land and the water. I decided to go with land above water (separated by 2" of poret foam) so I would still have good drainage of the substrate. It does make the land area look funky but there is a plan in the awkwardness of it all. Once the land moss and the HC grown in better, I have a few Orchids that can be grown on the moss to give it a more natural look, like an eroded streambed. I suspect it will be a few more months before that happens but there both finally taking hold and merging closer together!
> 
> Good luck with your research! And if you do start a build be sure to post all about it
> 
> Duff


Thanks for the info, I plan on having the same false bottom idea with water all the way back but I plan on having a sump as well, I guess the amount of plants you have will absorb all the ferts so preventing algae in the water section. 
my biggest concern is heating, if i heat the water (needed for the tropical fish as I'm in U.K) would that be enough to warm the air too


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## kev1962

I've now subscribed to this thread
by the way any chance of some more painted toenail pics


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## Duff

Hi Kev, Yes, definitely plant the water section heavily from day one, it will help to keep the algae down. I seeded my canister filter with media from my riparium but did not plant as heavily as I should have in the beginning. Which led to some algae but it has cleared up (took about 2 weeks). I think the over filtering and light fish feeding is helping as well. 

I don't have a heater in my tank right now and it has remained at about 74-76. Although, I am in Dallas Texas so we tend to be a bit warmer here. I did leave a place in the back to add a heater but have not needed it thus far. I would think that keeping the water heated would help in keeping the tank warmer but I also suggest having a closed top would help (or at least covering the majority of the top with glass). Mine is running at about 80 humidity regularly with the glass top. I currently don't have any vents in the glass top but think I will be adding 2 small ones in the near future. 

As for the toes, I'll see what I can do  

Duff


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## mudgudgeon

Hi Duff,

love your work mate, it looks fantastic.

I'm in Sydney Au, and currently building a large enclosure (7'6"H x 6'W x 3'D) for some Australian Eastern Water Dragons (lizards).
I'm using some very different techniques to you guys, my enclosure is much larger and the background has to stand up to heavy lizards with razor sharp toenails so its made with polystyrene covered with cement render.

Anyway, I'm loving what you guys are doing with vivs, I want to do similar and include some of these great ideas in my build, but need much lower humidity and less delicate plants to withstand this guy. . .









I'm curious about your logs. Are they natural timber/bark, or are they manufactured?


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## Raptor22

mudgudgeon said:


> Hi Duff,
> 
> love your work mate, it looks fantastic.
> 
> I'm in Sydney Au, and currently building a large enclosure (7'6"H x 6'W x 3'D) for some Australian Eastern Water Dragons (lizards).
> I'm using some very different techniques to you guys, my enclosure is much larger and the background has to stand up to heavy lizards with razor sharp toenails so its made with polystyrene covered with cement render.
> 
> Anyway, I'm loving what you guys are doing with vivs, I want to do similar and include some of these great ideas in my build, but need much lower humidity and less delicate plants to withstand this guy. . .
> 
> View attachment 43905
> 
> 
> I'm curious about your logs. Are they natural timber/bark, or are they manufactured?


Cool lizard.

Most of the wood you see is cork bark, with one big chunk of driftwood.


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## Duff

@ Mudgudeon - Very cool lizard! Wow, that's going to be one happy lizard with all that room! Plus you get to play with big plants - so cool. Yup, as Raptor22 said, some are large cork bark rounds cut in 3rds and then a few smaller cork bark rounds to make the branches. Then great expanding pond foam covered in titebond III and peat/soil mixture.

I'd love to see more of the build your working on  

Duff


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## mudgudgeon

Here's a couple of pics of my build. Dont want to clog up your build with too much.

The left side will have a false bottom to increase water volume (under red crate), and tree trunk and branches for climbing area. Right hand side has water feature and large tank section at the base 10" deep, it has a sump filtration system concealed under the base of the water fall, and has a sump built in to the false bottom section for pump placement.
All the background has been made with polystyrene and cement render to withstand claws, some rock ledges have heat cord embedded in cement render for basking spots. Rendering is not finished, it's too smooth and will get more features, and crevices for plants.

It is yet to have lights, heat lamps, vines, tree trunk, air circulation fan, glass for the front etc fitted. This is a slow 18month build so far  it's for my son, and he likes to participate. Dendroboard has recently added to the length of this!!
I will plant it out, but it wont have the same level of humidity as for frogs, so plant selection will be a bit experimental.



glass still required for the front including curved door from an old shower screen



rough mark up to show water feature, three pools, falling into tank at the bottom. I've tried to set it up to limit splashing and noise of water flowing.


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## Duff

OMG Mudgudgeon! Now I am in love - it's beautiful! Thank you for posting it. You've got to get a thread started - I really want to see your progress, slow or not! 

Will you end up using screening to enclose the other areas save the glass front or will it all be glass? Have you tested the water flow yet? Looks like you've got a good plan for it. I finally got my little stream going and found that adding a flow regulator on the little pump let me dial it down low until the moss settles in, then can be dialed back up for more flow. I bet with your lay out you'll be able to adjust the flow perfectly to limit the noise and splashing. 

Your water dragons are going to love you for this build! I can see you've spent a lot of time planning this out and the idea of using the shower door is fantastic!

Don't worry about clogging this thread - It's all about sharing ideas and your build is fantastic! But seriously - get that thread started!!!!  

Duff


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## jrodkinsey

Subscribed. Awesome tank, can't wait for more updates on your project!


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## mudgudgeon

Cheers Duff.
Will put up a thread when I find some time.
The front section will be all glass with a couple of vent panels top and bottom at each end. It's framed out for it already. Water dragons spend a lot of time in the water, but the Aussie climate is mostly fairly hot and dry, and they spend a lot of time basking on hot dry rocks so too much humidity would not be good.
I've done some testing of the water feature, but have only just glassed in the base tank area so I'm yet to test it with a pump. I may need to fine tune the waterfall sections to control splashing once it's running.. finding a pump capable of 6ft + of head with out huge flow rate could be a problem, I think I'll need a valve to control flow for sure.


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## zachxbass

Great job! I love paludariums and the dimensions on this tanks are perfect for it. I can't wait to see this in 6 months or a year when it's all grown in. 

Sent from my kindle fire using tapatalk


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## Duff

I finally added critters to the tank!

Can you see him? <hint> the eyes are glowing and he's hiding in the cave


No?

Here you go!






And then a few other random shots, The drip wall is very happy with tons of growth and just starting to grow over the ledges. The rest of the plants are doing great as well. I've add a few more and will update the plant list soon. I am so happy that it is finally coming together!


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## diggenem

I know your crabs are enjoying the new digs!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## fullmonti

Just found this thread & love'n it! 

I'm about to start a build thread for my paludarium (my first). I had a 180g fish tank that started multiple leaks, so decided to build a largish paludarium in it's place. I wont to have a lot of small orchids much like what you have done. Not only will this be my first viv but I have never grown orchids either, except when I lived in Florida & had one on tree fern hanging in a tree out side. Where is a good source to get orchids? I found Andy's Orchids, he has a good selection but shipping could ad up fast. Also I noticed you & some others include some sphagnum moss with bark & stick mounted plants, is that just to help them get started or is it permanent? 

Thanks for any help/words of wisdom you my have for me about orchids in a viv
Jim


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