# The sticks and foam build



## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Hello hello. A very brief introduction, since it will read mostly the same as many others. I'm a long time reef enthusiast, first time frogger. I skipped the freshwater side of the hobby altogether, I was hooked by a coral flat way back in my youth. You can, however, get burned out by even the things you love, so this build is an in between upgrades change of pace (I still have my trusty nano running, naturally.)

I had a 40 breeder I was contemplating getting rid of, since it's very old and I'm no longer going to use it as a sump. It hasn't been used, mind you, it's just been sitting for a long time, and it sat for a long time before I got my hands on it. So, I sterilized and resealed it for this. 

Fatefully, I was researching a simple terrarium so that my wife could possibly enjoy more delicate species. She has a green thumb with plants around the house, and I can always use an excu...ahem, an incentive to build another tank. I post frequently on nano reef, and stumbled across a members large vivarium. Planted tanks might do nothing for me, but vivariums? Hook line and sinker.

Fast forward to today, and I have the beginnings of my painfully noobish build. It does contain a water feature (don't all first builds?), but in my defense, I honestly thought my target species could utilize it. Phyllobates vittatus reportedly occurs near small running streams, and I thought it would be incredible to allow them access for tadpole deposition,abs the potential for their entire life cycle to be carried out with out my intervention. Lesson learned for the next one, though I'm considering simply filing in the pond a bit. 

On to the good news, I did it the right way, mostly. The water feature is operated by an external canister filter. I used 1" pvc behind the foam so that I could easily remove either line for servicing, or to pump excess water if necessary (siphons be damned.) I was going to drill the system, but figured this was a low risk alternative (I've cracked a tank drilling before.) The land feature is elevated on a false bottom, with roughly 14 4" pvc posts supporting the egg crate. I did not want to sacrifice valuable floor space for something only to be used for breeding, so the majority of my pond is only 1" wide, with multiple egress points in case a frog so happened to jump in. 

One big error was installing my internal circulation fan contraption backwards so that it blows across the back rather than towards the front pane. I happily blended it in to the background, somehow forgetting to keep it accessible as I had painstakingly done for the filter. That will be...fun to rectify. 

I have added my first plants, a package from glassbox tropicals. I had been under the impression they would come labeled, I was mistaken. I did my best to identify then, but if you see any obvious errors in the following pictures please let me know. I've been feverishly researching plants in general, and now realize just how clueless I am. The tank is lit by a beamswork 1 watt fixture. I've constructed several led fixtures on my own, but it would seen what I'm accustomed to building would absolutely torch the plants. I don't have the control I generally do with my fixtures, but this was a cost effective and simple solution. 

Any way, I'll stop boring you and present my nub build. I'm sure I'm forgetting several things worth mentioning, but this is a novel of a post as is. 






I'm concerned the leaf litter is not deep enough, but dwarf magnolia is not as small as I'd imagined. I'm also not happy with the way the bromeliads are planted, but again, imagined them coming in much smaller. The largest is 1' tall (I'm assuming it's a neo?)

Thanks for any input folks.


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

What a great setup. You have a tremendous amount of surface area for frogs to move around in that tank.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

chillplants said:


> What a great setup. You have a tremendous amount of surface area for frogs to move around in that tank.


Thanks. The initial idea with the hardscape was to create a lot of visual barriers and microclimates for the frogs to retreat in to. I spent a lot of time getting it to look that crowded with no focal points .


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

In slightly more exciting news, I'm going to devise a hanging system for the light, since the optics appear to be about 60° I have a rather narrow band of coverage. Taking it up around 8" should provide plenty of spread, and hopefully adequate intensity. The tank is seeded with Florida fast isopods and springtails, and the plants seem to be assimilating well for the most part. I'm talking with Mike from glassbox about a few more epiphytes, since I have a huge amount of surface area that has not been utilized so far. I'm considering moving or removing some of the terrestrial plants that are currently in the tank to allow for more leaf litter. 

I've also decided to try a few aquatic plants in the pond, I've read ludwigia will flower if emersed and I'd like to play around with that. I don't think I'll be adding fish, but some cherry shrimp might make an appearance. I'll use a real camera for my next update, whenever that will be. 

Also, I had originally intended on P. vittatus, but given the layout and their terrestrial nature it might be better suited for Epipedobates anthonyi. I have a few months to work that out.


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## thane (Sep 11, 2014)

That looks really cool. What is that wood that is kind of flowing horizontally through the tank? Is that a couple large pieces or several? How did you get all those mounted in there? Would also be interested to see a more detailed shot of your pond on the right when you post some additional photos.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

thane said:


> That looks really cool. What is that wood that is kind of flowing horizontally through the tank? Is that a couple large pieces or several? How did you get all those mounted in there? Would also be interested to see a more detailed shot of your pond on the right when you post some additional photos.


The bulk of the back is one large piece, with 2 smaller pieces above and to the left of it. I siliconed the wood to the glass, and then great stuffed around it once it had time to cure. I also have one "log" positioned on the ground that isn't attached to anything. I'll be sure to get more detailed shots of the whole tank, a lot of five detail is lost in the pictures posted (for example, the intricate root work over the waterfall.)

Edited to add: the wood is american chestnut, I bought if from vivarium gurus. They really hooked me up, I still have enough wood for 2 additional vivs.


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## klaasebaas (Apr 17, 2015)

Nice tank! In Holland we idee a simular approach. We use polystyreen foam. Polyuratheen an a finish with elastapur (gluren for tiles bases on 2 Como epoxy). For revérence der My tank under construction http://www.gifkikkerportaal.nl/Forum/tabid/96/aft/113929/Default.aspx Apolgies for the Dutch 😄. Wil post translation zoon.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I really like your viv, and honestly I think it would be great for vittatus or anthonyi. My only critique is I would ditch the broms. Neither of those species particularly benefit from them, and I think there are better plants for displaying your hardscape. Broms are way over used, imho.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

klaasebaas said:


> Nice tank! In Holland we idee a simular approach. We use polystyreen foam. Polyuratheen an a finish with elastapur (gluren for tiles bases on 2 Como epoxy). For revérence der My tank under construction Nieuw terrarium na 14 jaar - Gifkikkerportaal - Forum - Weblogs - Nico de Roo Apolgies for the Dutch 😄. Wil post translati.
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


t's a very beautiful vivarium, it's always nice to have new reference points and perspectives when your plotting the next build. One thing I've learned, height is an invaluable feature in a vivarium


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

epiphytes etc. said:


> I really like your viv, and honestly I think it would be great for vittatus or anthonyi. My only critique is I would ditch the broms. Neither of those species particularly benefit from them, and I think there are better plants for displaying your hardscape. Broms are way over used, imho.



I concur, I've actually just placed another order with glassbox after a very long back and forth with Mike about some epiphytic replacements. He's been very helpful, and the package will include Peperomias, Orchids, Ferns, Rhaph, and Marcgravia. I feel they'll better fit the space. I had reservations about using Bromeliads to begin with, since its rare to see a viv without them featured prominently, but decided to see what the fuss was about. I am worried about growing then outside of the viv, so I'll be doing homework on that as well.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Here are a few quick snaps with a camera that is way out of my league. These are taken with an A6000 with kit lens, I think next update I'll use some of my legacy glass. I'm no photographer, and certainly no editor, the only adjustments made where to the Kelvin (I thought they looked better a little more warm, still true to life.) 















I'm witnessing incredible growth rates, especially the Selaginella and the...grassy spikey thing in the background. Still trying to ID that one with certainty. I'm going to shuffle around some of the plants in preparation for the new shipment. Happy Saturday.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

It's log, it's log, it's big, it's heavy, it's wood. ..it's log, it's log, its great for a snack, it fits on your back, it's log log log. It's log, it's log, it's big, it's heavy, it's wood, it's log, it's log, better than bad, it's good. -Ren and Stimpy


The wife is already moving it...I Thought, hey, temporary fix. Adventures in naturalistic vivarium and the boundaries of your spouses patience.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I think the plant in back that you were speaking of is Asparagus setaceus. I'd probably ditch that one, too, personally.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

epiphytes etc. said:


> I think the plant in back that you were speaking of is Asparagus setaceus. I'd probably ditch that one, too, personally.


3' fronds and poisonous berries....you just might be on to something. I'll probably move it when the Epiphytes arrive, I'm plotting a mini overhaul as I type this. 

Is anyone familiar with frogs n things?Frogs 'n' Things Catalog

I'll admit, the price point is very attractive for me (you'll note that E anthonyi are 10 for $100, not that Id buy that many for this build), but I have concerns because of it. 

Edit: Never mind, did a bit of digging and they seem solid.


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## Citizen (Apr 27, 2015)

Great looking viv sir. I really like how balanced the layout is.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Citizen said:


> Great looking viv sir. I really like how balanced the layout is.


Thank you, I did try to stick the hardscape. I think I may have been heavy handed with the planting after this last order, time will tell. They're all tiny epiphytes, in contrast to the rather broad leaves of my foliage plants. It looks a little busy, so I might have to reorganize again. 

That said, I will update with some shots with the A6000. I'll leave the kelvin alone this time, in hindsight it really doesn't look good haha.

Edit: teaser shot. Not that I'm doing anything impressive enough to be teased.


Next project: redoing the lid better. Air flow is weak.

Also, of note, I have two broms in plain view. The one on the right is in such an odd position because I accidentally removed it's stolon, attracting fungus. So, I put it in a high springtail traffic area. It's working suprisingly well, although I'm not confident the brom will pull through. The other simply wasn't doing well on the log. Both will likely be removed.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

OK, my viv is photogenic, but I'm a crappy photographer. Brought to you by a Five Star 28mm circa 1970 something/ Vivitar series 1 70-210mm circa 1960 something.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Next update, le frogs. Or, perhaps, more random plants I find interesting enough to photograph. Sorry, as a beginner I find it all interesting. I might try my new Sigma 60mm, since these where free hand and the A6000 doesn't have built in image stabilization. 

I'm now torn right down the middle between E. anthonyi and P. vittatus...edge to the anthonyi for boldness, but edge to the vittatus for color. Decisions are hard.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Alright, I think I'm ready. $15 Vitts at Joshs, clearly a sign.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Your viv is looking good. Vittatus are a great frog, one of my favorites, you won't be disappointed. They are relatively bold and have a great call. I really just can't understand why they aren't more widely appreciated. I think they are a great fit for your build. Personally, I'd go for 6 or 8.


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## isias (May 12, 2015)

Love this setup you have, natural art


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Damn, waited on the frogs because I was afraid everything wasn't perfect, now they're $35 each again...in hind sight, in putting them in QT anyway, I would have had plenty of time to make final adjustments. Lesson learned. I'm very cautious with live stock, particularly if I've had no personal experience with them, and it occasionally costs me a sweet deal.

At least the plants are all finally in their permanent positions and taking root, I'm really happy with the way it is coming together.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

6 vitts on order, they'll be here Friday. Without going in to too much detail, Joshs frogs deserves every bit of their reputation. 

I'm very excited, wish me luck folks!


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Happy and healthy!


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

The frogs are doing well in QT thus far. I was afraid I didn't have enough space, but with the exception of one older frog they are all tiny. They seem to only use the space directly under the cork tube, I think it will be sufficient as a grow out bin. 

I haven't nailed the dusting/feeding thing yet. I'm always doing too much or too little of one component or another. Today I dumped a pile of repashy calcium plus in to the qt 

On another note, does the urge to buy more plants ever go away? I keep thinking to myself that a cryptanthus here or a small orchid their would be nice, knowing full well that my current selection will grow in sooner than later. Hell, Mike has gallon bags of clippings for $25 shipped that I want to jump on. I could probably squeeze more in...addiction verified.


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

The plants are certainly an addiction. This particular build has inspired me to see what I can do with my 50 gal. I ordered and received plants a couple weeks ago but the fish are still occupying the tank.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

chillplants said:


> The plants are certainly an addiction. This particular build has inspired me to see what I can do with my 50 gal. I ordered and received plants a couple weeks ago but the fish are still occupying the tank.


I might just spring for the plants, I'm at peace with how light my wallet is getting. 

It was a fun process, I can tell you the most annoying parts are the construction of the lid, and condensation mitigation. Also, 5" for a false bottom was excessive. Water feature is neat though.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Ok, quick updates. 

The frogs are doing well. I only ever spot 5 at a time, which makes me nervous, but I'm sure they aren't the same 5. One is noticeably larger than the others, it must be several months older at least. 

My plans to refinish the lid are on hold, I just brought home my first born. He's awesome, but sleep and free time are in short supply. 

I'll try to snap a picture of the viv or the frogs when I can.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Great tank and great choice of frogs!

@Klaasebaas: Why you do not translate your thread in English here on Dendroboard? Unfortunately, few people know the Dutch and only few can know your work in detail.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

In an attempt to better seal the lid before adding frogs, I've successfully siliconed everything but the door in place. 


Living hinge came out ok at least.


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

Well, the frogs are still reclusive, buuuut...



This is my new crazy colored selaginella, uncinata I think. Doesnt show up well on camera unfortunately. 


Plus the only frog shot I could muster


Thank you for reading the sticks and foam build, we know you have many choices in build threads, and we appreciate your patronage. Please secure your baggage as we begin our descent in to a tad rearing thread in the next few months. Thank you, please read again.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I love the viv with the exception of the random log with a squared end protruding out of the water. Everything else looks great, but the sawed off end detracts from a natural appeal... This is my opinion. 

Maybe a thinner smooth wood branching out breaking the water's surface is in order... Also would be a great mounting surface for Java Moss. Would be rather appealing IMO... I love the hardscape. VERY well done!

JBear


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Psychosis said:


> I just brought home my first born. QUOTE]
> 
> I am an A**hole... Congratulations to you! The joyous journey has begun!
> 
> JBear


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## Psychosis (Feb 13, 2015)

jbherpin said:


> I love the viv with the exception of the random log with a squared end protruding out of the water. Everything else looks great, but the sawed off end detracts from a natural appeal... This is my opinion.
> 
> Maybe a thinner smooth wood branching out breaking the water's surface is in order... Also would be a great mounting surface for Java Moss. Would be rather appealing IMO... I love the hardscape. VERY well done!
> 
> JBear


I was actually eyeing a few pieces of drift wood with anubias growing emersed for that very reason. I hate the clean cut edge as well, but I'm hesitant to replace it for a few reasons. Aside from that edge, it fits the pond perfectly, is a great egress point for any frog swimmers, and the submerged portion looks fantastic. It also has some interesting growth, a type of film fern I think, but that's less pressing. 

That said, I am still attempting to replace it. It's going to take finding a very specific piece though. I should take a pond close up, with the addition of the Salvinia it's actually shaping up nicely as a tad hole. Maybe I can find a way to rough the edge up so it's less obvious. 

Thank you, my boys a happy cape so far.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

Maybe a staggered rock slab stack with a moss over layer would mask the blunt cut end...? Have the the stack lessen in form as it enters/leaves the water... Most rocks are porous and are ideal rooting surfaces for live mosses, adding to the 'blending'/transition...

So happy to hear the beloved, young child is doing well!

JBear


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

Could you flip the wood in the water around so the cut end is in the water? If not, you could just cover the end with some pillow moss or an epiphytic fern like Davallia heterophylla.


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