# Oophaga Pumilio 'Bastimentos'



## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I've become really interested in these frogs lately and I'd like to get a pair for my next and most likely final frogs for a while. 

Can you mix different colors?
Someone told me that 'Salt Creek' and 'Red Frog Beach' should be kept separate. But that all others from Bastimentos Island can be kept together. 

I used the search but only came up with older threads and no real 'yes or no' answers. 
The reason for this thread is because I'd like to have a yellow/red pair. I think it would be cool. If they can't be kept together no biggie, just thought I'd make sure before I did anything stupid.

***I of course know the whole deal about mixing frogs and I too agree that different species of frogs should be kept separate. I'm just not entirely sure what the deal is with frogs that come from the same island but are different colors.***

Thanks!


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

as far as i know thats totally fine.
james


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

The problem isn't mixing colors, but mixing locales. You can put a yellow basti with a red, white, orange of the same locale without skewing the natural genetic line. This is the reason that different importations of the "same" frogs without specific site data are generally kept separate when it comes to breeding.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

OK, so as long as I know know they come from the SAME locale, then different colors are OK? 
So I guess the safest way is to buy a red and a yellow from the same person/parents?(granted their frogs produce a red and a yellow)
Am I correct?


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

From what I have heard is that Bastis can produce several different colored offspring regardless of their own color. Having a yellow/red pair is better than having a pair of the same color in my opinion because it prevents line breeding. Hopefully you can find good site data because local is important. Bastimentos island is one of the bigger islands in Bocas del Toro. Also you do not have to purchase from the same parents because then you would be possibly be breeding siblings. Just see if you can find two from different parents from the same import.

Also good luck on these being your final frogs. I think we all say that at some point.


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## PantMan (Dec 10, 2009)

Ok now I'm a little confused. I'm new to this so please forgive my ignorance. My next frogs are going to Basti's. I would very much like to contribute to the genetic diversity of the species so wouldn't it be in my best interest to get frogs from two different breeders regardless of the origin (locale) of the frog? Are there different morphs of Basti's besides color that I'm unaware of? Please help becaseu I really really want to do this right and I'm very resistant to breed siblings.


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## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

I have two pair of basti's one pair are red and the other are gold dusted they both have produced orange, bright yellow, white, and red, I even have a bluish color one. But my red pair hasn't produce a red froglet yet and my gold dust has produced lots of orange and yellow.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

flapjax3000 said:


> From what I have heard is that Bastis can produce several different colored offspring regardless of their own color. Having a yellow/red pair is better than having a pair of the same color in my opinion because it prevents line breeding.


I'm not sure how having a yellow/red pair would prevent line breeding if a pair can produce both yellow and red offspring. A yellow/red pair could still be a brother/sister pair.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

This is what I meant. I didn't find any concrete answers and it looks like a lot of people have different ideas.

So I guess there are other locales that should not be mixed besides "Red Frog Beach" and "Salt Creek"?
I was reading about some that come from near a cemetary. 

I hope some more people will chime in. *hint hint*

Thanks for all the replies so far!

flapjax3000: I said they would be my last frogs for a WHILE. 
At least until I either get a larger room or throw out my bed, lol.

Phender, I think what flapjax3000 is saying is it's better because you wouldn't keep pairing up yellow/yellow or red/red ect and breeding the two colors together to try and get the same color. I'm not sure though, I'm still new to the breeding part of the hobby and I'm trying to learn.


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## ktewell (Dec 17, 2009)

I would pm JP (MonarchzMan), he studies O. pumilio in Bocas and knows the population localities very well.


Kevin


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks Kevin. I'll be sure to contact him.


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

phender said:


> I'm not sure how having a yellow/red pair would prevent line breeding if a pair can produce both yellow and red offspring. A yellow/red pair could still be a brother/sister pair.


Sorry this does sound a bit confusing. If you breed a red/red then the probability of a red offspring is more likely, but not absolute. I could be wrong but I thought line breeding was breeding similar traits, not necessarily inbreeding. 

Yellow/red could definitely be a brother/sister pair in this case. I meant to try to avoid buying froglets from the same parents to pair up. This is not always easy, especially due to shipping and availiability. 

So for your question Edwing, a red/yellow or any combination pair is perfectly fine. I do not know much about specific site data on the imports. Hopefully you can find a nice captive bred pair from the same locality.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

That's what I'm looking for right now. I'm in contact with someone about some bastis. I'm still waiting to see if some other people can chime in.
Thanks everybody so far!


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

There are some populations on the island that tend to breed fairly true within their populations (Salt Creek, Red Frog Beach...but even what I mean by "true" here needs to be understood beyond an example of only one or three photos). But there are some populations on the island that are actually extremely polymorphic and can range from pale orange to dark orange to "gold dust" to an almost blue color. From what I understand, the population from the cemetary is one of these highly polymorphic populations, and it's a good chance that the majority of what we're working with in the hobby was collected from this site.

However, without actual locale data, it's difficult to make some of these management decisions: we could be seperating and heavily line-breeding animals that were from the same population without even knowing it. Or, conversely, we could be grouping together and breeding animals from opposite ends of the island that would most likely never come into contact with each other.

Without actual site data, we can only make educated guesses.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

There are several populations of pumilio on Bastimentos, including Red Frog Beach, Salt Creek, and the Cemetery. There are some other populations as well, but I won't get into that for ease of explanation.

The only population that I know of that is polymorphic is the cemetery population. These frogs come from a relatively small region on the western part of the island. They actually occur right next to the town of Bastimentos, so I would guess that most of the individuals collected for import were from this polymorphic populations for no other reason than it was very easy to grab frogs that you only had to walk up some stairs to get to. The red frog beach population, based on my observations, breeds true to orange-red frogs with small spots. Unfortunately, there is overlap with the cemetery population, so unless they were described initially, the likely would be mixed into the cemetery population unknowingly.

The salt creek population actually is comprised of smaller individuals and they are on the eastern end of the island, so those should not be mixed with other Bastimentos populations. I guess at this point, if you get frogs from Bastimentos that are spotted and aren't specifically described as RFB, then I would assume that they're from the polymorphic cemetery population and okay to mix different colors.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Great info! Thanks so much for responding JP! I really appreciate it.


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## cairo11 (Jan 8, 2011)

Hey brien
Still have some bastis?


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