# Just starting w/ 20H



## Guest (Dec 13, 2006)

I have been browsing this sight for hours now after just getting back from a store with these frogs.

I have a 20-gallon high, and ready to start

Few questions first..

-What species is considered good for beginners? 

-I have had lots of success with aquarium plants, are plants in these habitats more complicated?

Lots more questions to come, any advice is appreciated
Thanks 
-Evan


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## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

can't say much for plants; there are alot of inexpensive and hardy plants good for vivs (pothos comes to mind). As for beginner frogs, azureus don't disappoint-hardy, beautiful, and pretty common in the hobby so you'll have a chance to pick out good deals. Go with a pair of adults of these.

Heh, I just started in the hobby a couple months ago and now find myself giving advice now...my how time flies..


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Welcome to Dendroboard! 

Some good frogs to start off with are D. leucomelas, D. azureus, D. auratus, D. tinctorius (most morphs), etc. 

Try staying away from egg feeders at first, such as D. pumilio etc.
I don't have much experience with aquarium plants, but I can't imagine terrarium plants being much different. 

Some nice plant you might consider are bromeliads, orchids, ferns, philodendrons, peperomias, dischidias, etc. 

Check out http://www.frogbroms.com http://www.tropicalinhabitants.com http://www.cloudjungle.com/eshop/

Good luck.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2006)

Thank you  

D. leucomelas, D. azureus, *D. tinctorius* 
they all look very interesting. Will just have to see which is more availible in my area. can i keep one? do they prefer groups, how many?

Can I use my 20 gallon High for this? some info says I need a larger tank.

Where do I start? I want waterscapeing but don't know how that would work with just part of the tank.. a stream would be ideal! but I saw a waterfall you can buy :?:


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## thumbnail (Sep 18, 2005)

*20 h/ tank*

All three of those could be kept in a pair in that tank. Just pick the one out of those that best suits your interest. The leuc's will not get as big as the azureus or tinc's, but they have a very nice call that is very audible. As for plants just look either at frogbroms.com or blackjungle.com, I have worked with both of them and they have a great selection and if you really need info I am sure they can steer you in the right direction on what to put in the 20 high. As for a water feature you would be better off creating a water fall yourself. put a search in for waterfall or water feature here on the dendroboard, and you should be able to come up with something that will help you get started. The tank is only the first thing. Now you need to get proper lighting, a glass top, read up on the species you picked, read up on cultureing fruitflies, Get some cultures going, get you tank set up, and then your ready for frogs. I hope this helps.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

thanks, D. leucomelas is the only species avaible near me.a 20gallon high seems to high, think i will get a 20 long - or at least thats what the person at the store talked me into. I have a 10 gallon but she said that would be too small for a pair of leucomelas.


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Hmm, I'm not sure the lady gave you the greatest advice. 

Contrary to what it seems most people believe, leucs will climb and utilize vertical space. A 10 gallon would be fine for a pair. Of course any frog is going to like a larger vivarium but I think a 10 is fine. 

With a pair of leucs I would ideally go with the 20 High, as they will utilize the height, and it gives them fair floorspace. A 20 Long will work as well, but they won't have as much height of course. I guess it is all personal preference. 

Just because a frog is 'terrestrial' does not mean it spends all its time on the ground. The literal meaning of a terrestrial frog is a frog that spends its time on the ground and up to three feet off the ground.


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

i second 20h i know my leucs use all the space they can height and length wise


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Also, after you put in a false bottom and soil in the viv, you're going to be left with oly about 8 inches of vertical space, not much room for plants, let alone frogs. A 20H would be great or 2-3 leucomelas. My 5 utilize every inch of their 46g bowfront. Also, cosider finding a hobbyist in your area to purchase frogs from. Not only will they be cheaper, but you will know you're getting healthy frogs, and have a knowledable person on hand should you have ny problems.


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## Josh_Leisenring (Jun 19, 2005)

I also think, for leucs, you would be better off with a 20 high instead of a 20 long. I'm not really saying anything new here, but leucs do seem to enjoy a good bit of height, and will readily explore and utilize any vertical structure you can provide. Good luck! 

- Josh


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2006)

Thanks, that makes sense.

Decided to go with a 26 gallon bowfront, I really like my 46 bowfront for my African cichlids and Tookay's tank is what I’m going to try and copy.

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... neon+tetra

The dimensions of the 26 seem perfect for a pair of leucs

Might build a simple 10 for practice first though, just to get some trial and error out of the way.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Welcome to the board Evan,

The 26 bow will be a very nice tank. I was going to suggest a 29 as being better than a 20 long. If you want a waterfall, I strongly suggest a false bottom and LECA or some form of large gravel along the edges of the water fall. They all leak and you want to avoid saturating your substrate. A false bottom takes up too much room to use in a 20 long IMHO, so the 26 will be a good choice.

Another good piece of advice that you have received is to find a breeder in your area. You can also mail order from a breeder when weather permits. You sound excited to get your frogs. As has already been said, you should build your tank before you get the frogs. These vivs take time to do right and buying the frogs right now may mean that they have to stay in their quarantine tanks for a long time. 

I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that your local pet shop is a good place not to talk dart frogs. With very few exceptions, pet shops cannot give good advice on proper amphibian care. You will find a ton of good info on Dendroboard though. Please check out this post. You will find it very helpful.


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## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

Go with the pothos, they don't die. Trust me I've tried...one of my plants got way too much water and rotted, one doesn't have enough water, and the pothos are doin' great 8) Stupid random home depot plants...


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## ccc (Nov 22, 2006)

Our frogs love their pothos


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Pothos is highly under rated. People like to snub it because it is so easy, but if you don’t want to put a lot of effort into the greenery pothos is probably one of the best plants out there. You will need to prune it though!


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2006)

Thanks again, great info! Very helpful board

Went and priced out some supplies today! That was fun :? 

One store had some PDFs mixed in a tank, from what I’ve read on this board that’s a no-go, and they wanted $100 for a single leuc! (Twice what the other store wants) but they had great tank building materials... so I will be shopping around a lot while building. 

I do want to take my time, it is my first and if I’m going to build something as permanent looking as some of the vivs on here I will have to. Also heavily considering finding a breeder to order from, and that will also give me more time to build.

as far as plants, they sell some "frog moss chunks" fairly expensive but looks nice, they had some broms and really cool looking fern moss stuff for near the waterfall. if pothos are easy then they seem perfect too


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

For ease, and to be cost effective, you might want to consider purchasing a plant package from an online vendor that frequents the board (ie Antone at frogbroms.com). You'll get a good selection for a great price, and wont be disappointed. You can save alot of money by purchasing viv supplies online, as opposed to a store.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Antone rules, but so does Pothos! I use both.


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## lukebalsavich (Feb 14, 2006)

Welcome to dendroboard! I highly recommend a bowfront.. Wonderful tanks for display. I would spend a little more and get a 36 because that will give you even more room to build the waterfall, stream, etc.

I would suggest, if you do go with the bowfront, hiding the false bottom (assuming that's what you will use) with some gravel (VERY cheap at any landscaping place). I have done this with all of my display vivs and it really works out well. Check out my 46 bowfront construction journal for step-by-step walk through on how to do this. It also outlines how I built my waterfall.

Hope this is useful!

Luke


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## Josh_Leisenring (Jun 19, 2005)

Yeah, I've been a big fan of pothos as well, but I must prune that stuff just about every week between the vivs it's in. I've actually gotten to the point where I've removed it from some of the smaller tanks as it will just fill up all available space. Still, it's good stuff when you need an easy, quick-growing, relatively attractive plant. I also like to use marantas; they seem to do just as well as pothos and are just as easy to deal with, though less viney and a bit more slow growing (as well as cheap  )
And bowfronts are great; if you use a false-bottom, it's really easy to hide in a bowfront since all you have to do is fill in the front with gravel. Good luck! 

- Josh


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Here is a good place to start:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16075


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2006)

do i put a screen top on my aquarium? I have a glass hinged top right now(usual aquarium top) it doesnt cover the whole top though...


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Don't use a screen top unless you're going to cover it with something (plastic, plexiglass, glass). Many people have lost frogs from using standard glass aquarium lids because the frogs can excape by lifting up the back piece of plastic. I'd advice going to your local hardware store that cuts glass, or a glass shop, and get a lid cut for the tank. It'll be cheaper than any of the above solutions, and it will be better for your frogs safety.


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## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

I like using pothos, they are easy to care for and they look good. I wouldnt suggest using a screen top because you cant get the humidity up high enough with screen. Although I do use a store bought glass top it is probably better to make your own glass top. I will try to post the thread of how to make one and it seems quite easy. Good luck with your first tank and welcome to dendroboard, you will learn soo much here!Where are you located?And have you got/chosen what your first frogs will be?
Well, I couldnt find the thread, but it seemed easy enough. You get the two peices of glass cut to size, seperate them in the middle(hinge) area a little bit, tape them together and then put silicone on top of the tape. After it dries you cut with box cutters to make it even and once the silicone is dry it is very flexible and acts as a hinge. Walla! If anyone else can find this thread I believe it would help Evan a lot..............Sara


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2006)

thanks sara i live in MN, and im going with auratus or azureus most likely.

it would help to see a glass top like the ones you use, how would you run a cord for the pump through an all glass top though?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Cut a notch out of the plastic rim of the tank, or nip off a corner of the top and silicone a gasket of sorts around it to fill in any dead space. My glass tops are just one solid piece of glass that sits inside the rim of the tank. I haven't bothered to cut them and make a hinge for them and I'm not sure if I will or not.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2006)

You don't need the air to circulate at all? Does the glass cloud at all then because of the moisture?


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