# When did the 's' get dropped?



## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

More and more, I see people using terminology in the hobby where the 's' has been dropped.

Instead of Dendrobates or Dendrobatid, I'm seeing 'Dendrobate'

Instead of leucomelas, I see "Leucomela" (I even saw this in a public aquarium recently).

I'm just curious to learn if there is a logic behind it.

Afemoralis


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

specie is my particular favorite. Which isn't the singular of species, species is.


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## gio (Nov 9, 2010)

in my opinion they have been changing the 's' and its some times confusing to know what your getting its best to talk to the breeder and about the health of the frogs sometimes its just a mistake that happens but its not a big prob when you talk about the frogs


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

if its dendrobates leucomelas, you need the s


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Using "Dendrobate" is flat out bad grammar--the genus is Dendrobates. Grant et al. did a major revision of the family Dendrobatidae in 2006 and, in so doing, some of the species names were revised: histrionica, sylvatica, etc. droping the "-us" suffix.

I don't think hobby slang helps much with the issue, either (i.e. "Look at my pums, imis, varis, trivs, lams, etc."). The purpose of scientific nomenclature was and is to alleviate confusion and allow people to "speak the same language" and to know, without a doubt, that they are discussing the same specific organism. Is it really that difficult to type the remaining 2 or 3 letters of a species name?


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Right on, Ron,

Sometimes I feel strange being one of the few here to write out a species name. I greatly prefer D. leucomelas or D.t. "azureus", etc., to "leucs" and "tincs". I think if we were to use these as proper nouns, then it would be Leucs or Tincs, etc. It may take a few more hunts and pecks, but I prefer to use the correct nomenclature for the frogs and not be too sloppy.

Take care, Richard.



skylsdale said:


> Using "Dendrobate" is flat out bad grammar--the genus is Dendrobates. Grant et al. did a major revision of the family Dendrobatidae in 2006 and, in so doing, some of the species names were revised: histrionica, sylvatica, etc. droping the "-us" suffix.
> 
> I don't think hobby slang helps much with the issue, either (i.e. "Look at my pums, imis, varis, trivs, lams, etc."). The purpose of scientific nomenclature was and is to alleviate confusion and allow people to "speak the same language" and to know, without a doubt, that they are discussing the same specific organism. Is it really that difficult to type the remaining 2 or 3 letters of a species name?


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

so what's the plural of leucomelas? leucomelases? ... the original post is quite different than us typing leucs or tincs on DB. it irritates me to no end when i see publicly printed spelling and grammar errors, but this is a conversation. you may notice that none of my letters are usually cap'd, but otherwise my grammar is okay. its ergonomically difficult to reach for the shift key w/ my pinkies when i'm leaning back on the couch.

my favorite is the unnecessary apostrophe. it is EVERYWHERE.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

skylsdale said:


> I don't think hobby slang helps much with the issue, either (i.e. "Look at my pums, imis, varis, trivs, lams, etc."). The purpose of scientific nomenclature was and is to alleviate confusion and allow people to "speak the same language" and to know, without a doubt, that they are discussing the same specific organism. Is it really that difficult to type the remaining 2 or 3 letters of a species name?


Unfortunately, old farts like me are not familiar with text-speak.  Everything is abbreviated. My company insists that I carry the latest iPhone (just got a new one this week). It's my electronic leash. I don't even know how to send a text, but when my kids send me texts, I need a teen text dictionary to translate the message. I believe it will evolve into a different language in generation or two. 

So, B4 u $ a luec, B sur its not a star wars doll.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

JimO, the use of "text speak" is already becoming a problem in schools--teachers are having papers turned in with numbers substituting letters, "U" instead of "you," etc. Of course, they get marked wrong. Saying, "Look at my group of imis" is like saying, "I took my do for a walk last night after dinner."

"What's a do?"

"You know, dog."

For the record, the use of capital letters is considered part of proper grammer (especially since it intermixes with the rules of various proper nouns).

But I apologize for the OP for getting off topic...


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

btcope said:


> so what's the plural of leucomelas? leucomelases? ... the original post is quite different than us typing leucs or tincs on DB. it irritates me to no end when i see publicly printed spelling and grammar errors, but this is a conversation. you may notice that none of my letters are usually cap'd, but otherwise my grammar is okay. its ergonomically difficult to reach for the shift key w/ my pinkies when i'm leaning back on the couch.
> 
> my favorite is the unnecessary apostrophe. it is EVERYWHERE.


 I agree. It seems that people feel that it is necessary to add an apostrophe when an acronym is pluralized, like "I have five breeding pairs of different DF's. For most frog family names - tinctorius, leucomelas, auratus - I believe the convention is like fish. I caught a fish, or I caught ten fish. Or, in my case, I caught no fish...


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

skylsdale said:


> But I apologize for the OP for getting off topic...


 First, what's an OP and why are you apologizing for the OP getting off topic? I think the OP has stayed on topic. Gotcha!


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

The aquarium probably thought Leucomela was the singular form, and they've only got one in there with their Auratu, Tinctoriu, Terribili, Azureiventri, amazonicu, and ventrimaculatu, along with a dozen or so assorted pumilios.


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

OP = original poster

Or, for my more demanding friends...

The acronym O.P. represents the person who originally posted the current thread of conversation. It is often proper forum etiquette to apologize to said poster when your comments venture away from the topic he or she brought up. This behavior is known as "hijacking." 

I've never walked my do, but I don't keep fros either. Unless you count my afro. I have seen, on the other hand, the use of K9 in place of Canine for many years on police cars. This was happening long before text messages made their way into existence.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

btcope said:


> OP = original poster...


Caught red-handed.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I think Chris Miller changed all of the names, Reticulatus became Reticulta, Fantasticus became Fantastica etc, I asked him about and he told me that he speaks Latin at his house and those are the pronunciations in Latin.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Damn Latins! Isn't English the national language?


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

Nope, Spanglish is. 


stemcellular said:


> Damn Latins! Isn't English the national language?


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

markpulawski said:


> I think Chris Miller changed all of the names, Reticulatus became Reticulta, Fantasticus became Fantastica etc, I asked him about and he told me that he speaks Latin at his house and those are the pronunciations in Latin.



In cases where the gender of the generic name has changed (i.e. from Dendrobates to Ranitomeya) changes to the gender of the specific epithet are warranted. 

When the generic name has not changed (and remains Dendrobates for example) the gender, and the ending, of the specific epithet should also remain unchanged.

-Afemoralis


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

markpulawski said:


> I think Chris Miller changed all of the names, Reticulatus became Reticulta, Fantasticus became Fantastica etc, I asked him about and he told me that he speaks Latin at his house and those are the pronunciations in Latin.


Haha. I am a Latin King.

You're just bitter that Bill was right after all. A visionary, he was...


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

.....well as he said.."the male does produce the jelly", Bill was soo ahead of the curve it is scary!


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Not for scientific names - its always been latin or latinized names since Carl Linné started the whole thing in 1758. FYI, Linnaeus is the latinized version of his name.

Chris, is likely following someone else. The species names have to follow the gender of the genus name. Offhand I don't know the gender of Dendrobates, but according to Chris (or whomever he's following) the genus is femanine. If the species name ends with an a or ae its femanine. If it ends with a us its masculine. 

Best,

Chuck



stemcellular said:


> Damn Latins! Isn't English the national language?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

> *Gender agreement*
> In the species group *gender agreement* applies. The name of a species, in two parts, a binomen, say, _Loxodonta africana_, and of a subspecies, in three parts, a trinomen, say _Canis lupus albus_, originally is a Latin phrase, and must be grammatically correct Latin. If the second part, the specific name (or the third part, the subspecific name) is adjectival in nature, its ending must agree in gender with the name of the genus. If it is a noun, or an arbitrary combinations of letters, this does not apply.
> 
> For instance, the generic name _Equus_ is masculine; in the name _Equus africanus_ the specific name _africanus_ is an adjective and its ending follows the gender of the generic name.
> ...




while I normally try not to quote wikipedia, this seems to be correct and relevent.


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## tim13 (Feb 1, 2011)

So what is this, a meeting of the grammar Nazis?


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

tim13 said:


> So what is this, a meeting of the grammar Nazis?


Since when did understand and using proper grammar become considered "extremist?!" 

I know this was meant in jest, but we really should take somewhat seriously this form of communication that sets us apart from the rest of the animal kingdom...lest we start smearing our own feces on the wall just to get our point across.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

skylsdale said:


> lest we start smearing our own feces on the wall just to get our point across.


You mean I've been doing it wrong all this time?


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## tim13 (Feb 1, 2011)

Smearing feces is not as fun as throwing feces...


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## Vivexx (Nov 28, 2007)

thats just people not being able to spell things nothing more lol


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Tony said:


> You mean I've been doing it wrong all this time?


Ha! But you're able to do it in a refined way, Tony...which makes it more publically acceptable.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

i think its just that alot of ppl dont now how 2 spell and they like 2 use txt speak on 4ums. maybe its just that ppl r lazy to


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

edwing206 said:


> i think its just that alot of ppl dont now how 2 spell and they like 2 use txt speak on 4ums. maybe its just that ppl r lazy to


Okay. After trying to read that, I am switching camps. Hopefully the "Grammar Nazis" have room for me.


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## tim13 (Feb 1, 2011)

I'd just like to point out, that today's English is not the same as it was in the past. Ever read the Canterbury Tales in Olde English? Still written in English, but it's quite foreign by today's standards. Who knows what the English will evolve into in the future. I bet you're getting a taste of it right now though. My grandfather got his first cell phone 2 years ago. Now he sends me text messages with phrases and abbreviations so new I haven't learned them yet. My point is, you guys can complain about this change all you want, you can even make grammar rules on this forum. But you will not stop the evolution of the English language.


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## edwing206 (Apr 9, 2008)

I hope it was clear that I was trying to prove a point, my grammar isn't THAT bad .


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

tim13 said:


> I'd just like to point out, that today's English is not the same as it was in the past. Ever read the Canterbury Tales in Olde English? Still written in English, but it's quite foreign by today's standards. Who knows what the English will evolve into in the future. I bet you're getting a taste of it right now though. My grandfather got his first cell phone 2 years ago. Now he sends me text messages with phrases and abbreviations so new I haven't learned them yet. My point is, you guys can complain about this change all you want, you can even make grammar rules on this forum. But you will not stop the evolution of the English language.


There has been slang (which is what a text language is) for many many years and yet slang historically tends to have a transient or minor impact on the language as a whole.. however this does not mean that it is appropriate to ignore the need to communicate with each other using correct taxonomy. It isn't always English speakers coming to this forum and there are a number of people who don't bother to learn text shorthand (myself for example.. some of my friends have discovered that if they send me a message in text shorthand, they shouldn't wait for a response..). 

The comparision to Old English is inexact as most of the rules of English grammer and spelling were not established back in that time... 

As a minor comparision (although texting is going to be around longer as no license requirements are being passed on cell phone use), there was a huge craze on cbs in the 1970s resulting in massive use of cb slang.. I can't think of a single one of those making it into standard English usage.. 

Ed


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