# Looking for someone to do Fecal tests



## claymore (Feb 24, 2010)

Hi guys,

I'm looking for some one to do fecals. It can be local (Chicago land area) or I can overnight. 

I rather avoid going to a vet if I have to. Most Vets require a exam of the animal before they do fecal tests. In the end you are paying $70 - $80 just for one fecal test. Which I will do if I have no other choice. 

But with 2 sets of frogs that I need fecals for, and that will mean in the end I will be paying for 2 different vet visits and a ball park of over $300.

Thanks for the help in advance.

Clay


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

You can call Antech and see if they have a local facility. This was recommended by the Oklahoma City Zoo veterinarian. They charge about $21 dollars and they will even send someone to pick it up or you can take it to the local facility and drop it off. You can call them at 1-800-745-4725 and the test code is T805. Or, you can send it to Dr Frye. He will charge $18 per group of frogs. You will have to overnight it or two day priority mail it to him. You can email him at David Frye [email protected]


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

claymore said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm looking for some one to do fecals. It can be local (Chicago land area) or I can overnight.
> 
> ...


Actually if they can see the frog, it actually can work out better (See the discussion here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...regular-treatment-parasites-4.html#post298624) where the decision to treat or not is based on the condition of the frog. If they cannot see the frog to evaluate it's health, they are automatically going to go with the most conservative treatment. Any time you medicate an animal there are risks of over or underdosing the from both of which are significant risks that should be avoided whenever possible. 

I would suggest finding a local vet since they can also prescribe a medication for parasites (like ivermectin instead of panacure) that can be used in a manner that permits accurate dosing (instead of trying to dust flies (see the above linked discussion)..... 

Ed


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## claymore (Feb 24, 2010)

Ed said:


> Actually if they can see the frog, it actually can work out better (See the discussion here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...regular-treatment-parasites-4.html#post298624) where the decision to treat or not is based on the condition of the frog. If they cannot see the frog to evaluate it's health, they are automatically going to go with the most conservative treatment. Any time you medicate an animal there are risks of over or underdosing the from both of which are significant risks that should be avoided whenever possible.
> 
> I would suggest finding a local vet since they can also prescribe a medication for parasites (like ivermectin instead of panacure) that can be used in a manner that permits accurate dosing (instead of trying to dust flies (see the above linked discussion).....
> 
> Ed


I agree with you Ed, But I've had several problems with some of the Exotic Vets in the area.
Some of you know, before Darts I used to keep Ceratophrys (And I Still do). And there was a couple of times I had to seek help from a Vet. In fact I had 1 Frog in particular that came up with some nasty tumor like lumps. Well I took him to 2 different Exotic Vets. The first was unable to make a proper diagnoses. Prescribed me a antibiotic, that did not work. After that I took him to another more reputable Exotic Vet. After the initial Exam he hands me a Internet care sheet that was printed off of a Petco Website. In all general reality the 2nd vet had no idea on how to take care of a pacman frog. Which is one of the most common frogs available! In the end I spent over $200 for a diagnoses that was not a 100%, and the frog did not make it in the end.

Now if I had a Exotic Bird, mammal, or a Reptile I would probably take them to one of these vets. When it comes to Frogs, I would rather deal with somebody that knows them.

The Frogs that I am looking to have fecals done for are; a pair of Green Imitators that I bought from Chris Miller And a pair of R. Vanzollini that I bought from Adam Butt. 

Both are very reputable breeders, and I have a 100% of faith in their breeding and husbandry. Since both pairs of frogs are not exhibiting any kind of physical or behavioral issues I feel secure that a simple fecal exam will be for the best.

Now when it comes to having fecals done, I would be more comfortable having a Dendro keeper + Vet such as Dr. Frye. do testing for me.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

claymore said:


> I agree with you Ed, But I've had several problems with some of the Exotic Vets in the area.
> Some of you know, before Darts I used to keep Ceratophrys (And I Still do). And there was a couple of times I had to seek help from a Vet. In fact I had 1 Frog in particular that came up with some nasty tumor like lumps. Well I took him to 2 different Exotic Vets. The first was unable to make a proper diagnoses. Prescribed me a antibiotic, that did not work. After that I took him to another more reputable Exotic Vet. After the initial Exam he hands me a Internet care sheet that was printed off of a Petco Website. In all general reality the 2nd vet had no idea on how to take care of a pacman frog. Which is one of the most common frogs available! In the end I spent over $200 for a diagnoses that was not a 100%, and the frog did not make it in the end.
> 
> Now if I had a Exotic Bird, mammal, or a Reptile I would probably take them to one of these vets. When it comes to Frogs, I would rather deal with somebody that knows them.
> ...


The problem is that vets are not trained in frogs. Actually, they have little training in small animals. Why? Most vet schools are funded from agriculture programs. What is the most money making animals out there? Cows! Cows keep our country running, not frogs. So, vets are trained where money is available. I have several friends that are vets and know first hand that they are just not "trained" on the huge variety of animals that are out there (5 personal friends to be exact). I live in a city of a million people and the only vet that is out there works for the zoo, as listed by ARAV. The vet is the one who recommended the lab company that I mentioned. I guess I could drive to Stillwater where 2 are listed on ARAV (guess where they work, an Agriculture school). Yes, it is best to find a local vet that knows about frogs but the chance is, well, less than 1 in a million in my case LOL. So, I utilize the resources that are available.


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## claymore (Feb 24, 2010)

jeeperrs said:


> The problem is that vets are not trained in frogs. Actually, they have little training in small animals. Why? Most vet schools are funded from agriculture programs. What is the most money making animals out there? Cows! Cows keep our country running, not frogs. So, vets are trained where money is available. I have several friends that are vets and know first hand that they are just not "trained" on the huge variety of animals that are out there (5 personal friends to be exact). I live in a city of a million people and the only vet that is out there works for the zoo, as listed by ARAV. The vet is the one who recommended the lab company that I mentioned. I guess I could drive to Stillwater where 2 are listed on ARAV (guess where they work, an Agriculture school). Yes, it is best to find a local vet that knows about frogs but the chance is, well, less than 1 in a million in my case LOL. So, I utilize the resources that are available.


I couldn't have said it better my self!


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

my local vet will do fecal test without a visit. the vet is near elgin/algonquin area(far northwest) sadly i forgot the price. where are you located?


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## claymore (Feb 24, 2010)

I am located in Woodridge, but I do travel all around for work.
Are they pretty reliable? 
Whats the name of the Vet?


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## goatdude (Apr 24, 2009)

i haven't done fecal test there(frog) but they said they do them. But i did take our hedgehog there when he had string wrapped around his leg. they seemed like they knew what they were going. even said they get quite a few extoic animals every week. they even did a fecal test on him.(turned up ok)

Dundee Animal Hospital | Caring For Your Best Friend


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

claymore said:


> The Frogs that I am looking to have fecals done for are; a pair of Green Imitators that I bought from Chris Miller And a pair of R. Vanzollini that I bought from Adam Butt.
> 
> Both are very reputable breeders, and I have a 100% of faith in their breeding and husbandry. Since both pairs of frogs are not exhibiting any kind of physical or behavioral issues I feel secure that a simple fecal exam will be for the best.
> 
> Now when it comes to having fecals done, I would be more comfortable having a Dendro keeper + Vet such as Dr. Frye. do testing for me.


The thing that you are missing is that reading a fecal is relatively straight forward and while the vet may not be able to identify a nematode to species, they are going to be able to recognize that there are nematode eggs in the fecal (since the vet is also unlikely to be reading the fecal, a vet tech who has looked at lots of nematodes, tapeworms etc is much more likely who is going to read the fecal) or bloodcells, or hookworm larva, or coccidians..... Which is slightly different than what you are describing as your experience.... 

When looking for a vet for your frogs, they don't have to have lots of frog experience provided they are willing to work with you on the issue... Many of the things are the same regardless of taxa (for example, none of the treatments used in herps were developed for them... all of them were because a vet or researcher said, well this works in birds, small mammals or fish, it should work in frogs (insert herp species here), and it didn't kill the patient and resolved the condition, got written up and published and eventually codified in one of the medical texts.......

This is how ivermectin, fenbendazole (and the issues with fenbendazole toxicity), amikacin, enrofloxin and countless other medications end up being part of the treatment options for herps.... Which is in no small part why I find requirements for prior frog experience to be a road block to better care for the animals...... 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

jeeperrs said:


> The problem is that vets are not trained in frogs. Actually, they have little training in small animals. Why? Most vet schools are funded from agriculture programs. What is the most money making animals out there? Cows! Cows keep our country running, not frogs. So, vets are trained where money is available. I have several friends that are vets and know first hand that they are just not "trained" on the huge variety of animals that are out there (5 personal friends to be exact). I live in a city of a million people and the only vet that is out there works for the zoo, as listed by ARAV. The vet is the one who recommended the lab company that I mentioned. I guess I could drive to Stillwater where 2 are listed on ARAV (guess where they work, an Agriculture school). Yes, it is best to find a local vet that knows about frogs but the chance is, well, less than 1 in a million in my case LOL. So, I utilize the resources that are available.


See my comments above... If you have a local vet that is willing to work with you, the vets at zoos often will consult with these vets on how to deal with these cases....for free... It just takes finding one who is willing to work with you. Our local dog and cat vet will read fecals for us... (I get free consults with the zoo vets.. perks of ex-career).... 

Ed


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

claymore said:


> I am located in Woodridge, but I do travel all around for work.
> Are they pretty reliable?
> Whats the name of the Vet?


You are in the same area as Dr Frye. I would hit him up... He's the best frog vet I know


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## claymore (Feb 24, 2010)

I emailed Dr. Frye and he has already replied back.


Thank you all for your reply's.

Ed I value your experience and knowledge. Under normal circumstances I would have taken your advice. But like I stated above, I have been down the road of the unknowing Vet. And under no circumstances am I implying that Vets are incompetent. It just seems that Frogs as pets are such a small niche, that allot of Vets are not that knowledgeable or have had that much experience in treating various species of frogs. That is why I have decided to go with DR. Frye. He is a Vet and He has hands on experience treating and even keeping/breeding Frogs.

Thanks Again!


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## VoidDiver (Oct 2, 2014)

If you're in an area, say utah, that has no one do these tests than your only alternative is the (less satisfactory) method of shipping fecals?


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

Can anyone recommend a good vet in San Antonio, TX?


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## OrangeTyrant (May 12, 2011)

Utah has some fantastic exotic veterinarians. Dr. Laurel Harris at Wasatch Exotic Pet Care is one you can look up. Dr. Gregg Latimer at Sugar House Veterinary is also great. Both of them could definitely do fecals for you.


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## VoidDiver (Oct 2, 2014)

It's funny you say that orange, I was about to ask if anyone knew about her. I called in there today and the receptionist was completely clueless about darts or their tests. After talking to the doctor though she sounded like she knew the 411 completely. Ha in any case that would be way more convenient for getting my darts checked...

I just want to make sure they're a-ok on chytrid, rana, worms, etc.


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## VoidDiver (Oct 2, 2014)

I guess I should ask, do they know what to look for for more than just worms?


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## OrangeTyrant (May 12, 2011)

You just need to have an open conversation with your veterinarian about what you'd like to look for in your frogs. 

Veterinarians, especially exotic ones, have a lot of individual species to keep up with that they see on a day to day basis, and are also not mind readers, but are happy to confer with colleagues and try to meet your expectations. 

I've taken my exotics, from reptiles to parrots to small mammals to both veterinarians I've mentioned and been very, very pleased, but you need to be an active participant in your pet's care as well.

Ask for the tests and diagnostics you are interested in and look at the relationship with your veterinarian as a continuing dialogue, and not a quiz of their knowledge on the obscure species that you've chosen to keep. They will definitely research that particular species as well going forward, but their medical knowledge base is still sound.

One of them even did miles of state to state export health certificates on the house when I moved away to vet school and was moving over 30 animals with me!


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

Anybody?.......


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## VoidDiver (Oct 2, 2014)

I figured as much. That being the case, what would be the "full spread" of diseases they should look for in fecals?


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

whitethumb. I know Mandy McKnight does vet care for Dart Frogs, She might be a good resource to find someone in your area. She's with CusterMcdermott
animal hospital 214-644-5555. She is in North Dallas.


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