# lost frogs



## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

hi all

well.... i got my 1st thumbnails last week. i went crazy and got 3 types. ive been keeping frogs a couple yrs and felt i could handle them. i still think i can. so heres my sad story...

i got 3 pairs
i put 1 pair in each temp tank, while i was making the other perm tanks. everytime i looked in on them i would only see 1 of each pair in the container, but i had alot of leaf litter etc so i figured they were hiding.

yesterday i went to change out the cages for the week and i could only find 1 of each of the 3 pairs.

no skeletons or anything in the cages.
im wondering if its possible for springtails to demolish a frog corpse in a few days. if i assume 1 frog from each bin died.

heres the bin i had them in









or do you think its possible for them to squeeze out of this type bin? i thought it was good enough the lid locks down and all.

the types were vanzolini varabilis and tarapoto
all very small frogs. 2 pairs were adults 1 was juveniles.

no evidence of dead frogs in bins and no expaination where they went. has anyone ever heard of frogs escaping those bins? im just feeling really perplexed. i mean whats the chances of 1 frog missing from each bin? so weird.


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

wow, that's really terrible. i'm sorry for your loss. 

I've seen people say on here before that they don't trust those lids and they cut glass to go over those plastic tubs, but i have some similar bins i use for plants and i don't see how anything could get out of them...

you haven't seen any dried up frogs around your place? I wouldn't think springs could devour a whole frog in a couple days... but i've been fooled before.

once again, sorry for your loss.

-brett


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

If both sides were latched, they make a pretty good seal. I'm confused as well as to how they got out. I'm guessing they got out because at least you should have seen some sort of remains like a skeleton in a week.

Sorry for your loss.


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## Blocker Institute (Apr 19, 2010)

Be certain to break down those tubs COMPLETELY. They will hide under substrate easily (hopefully theres some in there) and breakdown all plants as well to be certain they aren't in there. To the best of my knowledge, unless you have an army of springtails, no way they can completely dispose of a froglets in under a week. Good luck.


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

i sifted through all the leaf litter and spagnum in the bins again today and didnt find anything. im really sad about the whole thing. 
im still keeping the bins and hoping somehow after looking twice i still missed at least one of them.

i havent found any frogs dried up. if youve ever seen these species they really are so small. i doubt ill find any dried up.

everytime i think about it again it makes me sick in my stomach. i just dont see how they got out or died and dissapeared... on that note, there was quite a few springs in 2 bins (not like dozens or anything , i saw some) and almost none in the 3rd.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That really sucks. I'm sorry you lost them. I can't comment in your paticular lids but I personally don't ever trust any plastic lids. I always use a glass top. Those little buggers can walk through an 1/8 inch gap without even sucking their gut in! For next time here is what I like to use for temps. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63743-temporary-frog-storage-home.html


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I put my first thumbnails in almost the exact same temp container. I felt like the gaps that were left where the handle goes through might be big enough for them to go through so I hot glued he gaps. Also on two occasions I couldn't find one of them. The first time I found it wedged really well in some sphagnum that I almost threw out. The second time I couldn't find it, I eventually found it in one of the broms I took out to find it! Luckily it stayed put while it was out of the tank.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

I think those little guys are hiding too . You wouldn't believe how small they can fit into crevices and such. DON'T give up!!! I bet they are hiding.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

DartAsylum said:


> im wondering if its possible for springtails to demolish a frog corpse in a few days.


Not necessarily springtails, per se, but in the extremely warm and humid enclosures with which we keep our frogs, most carcasses completely decompose within a day or two.


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

skylsdale said:


> Not necessarily springtails, per se, but in the extremely warm and humid enclosures with which we keep our frogs, most carcasses completely decompose within a day or two.


Wouldn't you see some small bones though if you're searching everything thoroughly? 

I'm hoping they're just bunkered down hiding in there somehow.


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## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

The bones are very very small and can be mistaken for feces or dirt that is wet and clumped together.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Sorry for your loss--I hope you find them. 

Did you provide any ventilation holes? Even a day's worth of CO2 with little froglets/springtails in a smaller container can do them in.


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

well thanks everyone for the support
i really do appreciate it.

im going to look for them again tomorrow. 

you know Pumillo, i looked at those bins like you have and i thought they wouldnt be high enough. ie i didnt want them hoping out when i opened it but looking back now....

i learned a good lesson here.

that is to house frogs separately in temp bins, so if u dont see one u can check on it. i was always seeing 1 and thought they were both there and i didnt want to be digging around with another frog trying to escape etc. from now on all go solo until they get in their viv. i was being lazy because i just finished QT with 4 other frogs and thought that since these were pairs i would for convenience sake house them in pairs.

im also not using those bins for anything smaller than a leuc again

ill update if i find them.

thanks all


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## froggymike (Jan 11, 2010)

I just lost one of my quins. Found his body and it looked like a decomposing mushroom. I also am sorry for your loss. On a brighter side, I have found thumbs in their vivs as I was tearing them down. You never know.


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

I used the same crappy tub for a froglet grow out...the holes where the handles go through has huge gaps. I had at least two froglets just dissapear from the tub. the gaps dont look bad looking from top down but look from under the lid. I have now moved on to 10gal QT tanks with glass lids.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm really sorry that you had to learn the hard way. This is for other people considering thumbs. Please, Never underestimate how small a gap these guys can get through! Don't wonder if your frog can escape, ask yourself if a fruit fly could possibly escape!!


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

I suggest you don't give up just yet, they still could be hiding. 
The front opening lid broke today on my variabilis tank so I figured I would catch them and move them over into the 10 gallon next to them that was empty. I got one easily (knew her hiding spot,) but the other was nowhere to be found. Took all the plants out, went through all the substrate, even tore half of the clay background off and I couldn't find the male! Checked all over the room, no sign of him. I had to go, so I misted the tank, shut the door to the closet the vivs were in, and left, still with the door to the viv completely off because it was broken. I came back 3 hours later, peeked in, and saw a flash of green in the viv. I don't know if he stayed in the whole time (but I can't believe he would have gotten past my inspection,) or escaped and came back, but I got him safely into the other tank. So basically, Don't think just because you didn't find them means they aren't there. 
Also, it may be too late, but if a frog escapes and you can't find it:
Put out some shallow water dishes with plant cutting (i.e. pothos) in them to provide a nice higher-humidity, familiar place to seek shelter. 
Also, put out some banana slices and flies near the water dishes so the frog can have a snack if they find your little place for them.
Good luck and update us if you find them.
Bryan


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

i went tro the bins again yesterday and no luck.
im thinking of adding water to the bin to force them to move if they are in there but TBH i think they are long gone.

i wish i could find some bones or a dried corpse or something. i feel like i dont have any closure to it.

part of my issue in looking for bodies around the house is that the bins started in the kitchen then moved to my office then moved to frog room.

i keep thinking did they get past me when i was feeding or misting? my issue with that scenario is could it have happen 3 times and i never saw a frog get past me. idk they are lightning fast... nothing like my cobalts who just sit and stare me down hehe.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

D3monic said:


> I used the same crappy tub for a froglet grow out...the holes where the handles go through has huge gaps. I had at least two froglets just dissapear from the tub. the gaps dont look bad looking from top down but look from under the lid. I have now moved on to 10gal QT tanks with glass lids.





DartAsylum said:


> i went tro the bins again yesterday and no luck.
> im thinking of adding water to the bin to force them to move if they are in there but TBH i think they are long gone.
> 
> i wish i could find some bones or a dried corpse or something. i feel like i dont have any closure to it.
> ...


Try to look upwards into the bins while holding them over your head to check for gaps near the handles in case this is how they escaped. I wouldn't want your others to get out.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

I had a froglet die on me once. I hadn't checked on him for two days, and when I did, the only way I found him was the maggots wiggling, other than that it looked like a brown booger. I was only sure it was a frog when on very close inspection I could see an almost hair thin skeletal arm and hand. I would guess that one was natural causes because it was the first to morph from my lamasi, took 5 months in the water, and had plenty of springs.
I've also had sub adult thumbs escape through the gaps in bins, but all where safely recovered.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

What a weird story. Remember Asylum, the lesson isn't that you should separate EACH frog into their own containers necessarily, but to maybe carry out some research and purchase a reliable temp container. Just anything that stays SEALED.

Right now I am using a 2.5 gallon bucket with a strip of plastic over the top and a rubber band around the rim - it gets the job done. 

Hope this helps buddy :/


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

GREAT NEWS!!!!

This morning i found 2 of them in the spagnum 
WooooHoooo!!! I am so glad i didnt toss the stuff from the bins!
Feels like christmas around here 
They both look perfectly fine as well. i guess they have been eating the springs in the bins.

Thank You all !!!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That's great to hear!


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## rcmike (Dec 24, 2010)

Great! I have been hoping they would show up. Hopefully the other one will show up too.


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

Fantastic!!


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Good to hear!! Never give up until you have evidence or closure!!!


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## Steve25 (Jan 29, 2010)

Great to hear


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## berrymilan (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh its really strange to know, I am having the same box for them and i am surprised how they can get out from here, I am sure they must be hiding, so no need to worry they will be back soon.


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## bkm (Sep 14, 2010)

Thats great news! It always amazes me where they can hide- thats why 1 of my varaderos is named houdini


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## frugs (Oct 27, 2007)

Great ending to that story. Great beginning to a new one.


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## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Great news. Hope the third one turns up.


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