# Moss 101



## jmoose (Jun 21, 2006)

Hi,
I have been checking Frogs & Viv section in this forum and saw most have beautiful moss planted in their vivs.
I noticed that they are described as java, spanish, frog moss, pillow, riccia, sphagnum, natural moss etc etc, but since the pictures in viv section are too small to see the difference in type, I googled it and found this site http://bryophytes.plant.siu.edu/mossimage.html
It shows a lot of them but provide them only with scientific or biological names only and I have no idea which ones are those used in frog vivariums.
Can anyone who is familiar with mosses identify which one is which ?

I phatically like the one called Polytrichum piliferum which does not even look like moss, but very beautiful

Thanks !!!


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2006)

I'll second that request for info from the more experienced keepers. 

I'd also like to know how people get all this moss started - you buy it...and then what? (This might be something for someone to post in the Caresheet section - caresheets for moss and plants!)


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2006)

I've had success with moss. It took me two years of trial and error, but I finally got good at it. I don't know what species I have, but it may be java moss as Corey (Kero Kero) may have suggested. 
What I did, was put my moss on moist soil, or really anysubstrate will do, even rock(for java moss). I usually like to dust it with dry soil after putting it where I want it. Then I give it a good soaking with my spray bottle. Lots and lots of light is key. You might find them in shade in the wild, but that shade is really bright compared to most of our tanks. So long as you keep it humid, moist and bright, your moss with be fine. Also, don't just plant it in one place, break it up and put it in different places, that way if it doesnt do well in one spot you still have a chance that it will do well in other spots. I'll post some pics later when I get home.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

the problem is even for some who have really nice moss in their tanks it can be because of luck more than anything. i think what has helped me a bit is access to lots of species to seed my tanks. i also grow carnivorus plants and when i recieve a plant from a greenhouse or a grower very likely there is moss also growing in the pot since the moss tends to strangle out small CP's i remove it and place it in my frog tanks. in various places. sometimes it grows sometimes it doesnt. lately i have been having much better luck with liverworts though


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2006)

rattler, where did you get your liverwort? I've looked all over and cant find any :evil:


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

same place i get my moss, CP pots  ill have to take a picture of the grapewood in the one tank, its slowly being taken over by liverworts


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2006)

I have no CP pots :lol: Even scoured the greenhouse plants and nada, not even any moss :shock: I bet its cool overtaking the wood!


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

something that MAY work for getting liverworts, take some peat moss, especially the bale type versus the lil bags. ald keep it soaked in a tray under lights. yah might get liverworts that way on its own but if you can seed it some how it will work better. your location says "Mn" is that Minnisota? any chance your around the Twin Cities and can get to Orchids Limited? IIRC when i was there a couple year ago they had areas with moss and stuff growing wild by a drip wall or something that had mini orchids growing on it. there should be liverworts growing around there that you could swipe a scraping of to seed the peat.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2006)

Yep, I'm in the TC 'burbs. I'll have to check it out - I only recently remembered to check plant pots so hopefully I'll get lucky.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

jmoose said:


> Hi,
> I have been checking Frogs & Viv section in this forum and saw most have beautiful moss planted in their vivs.
> I noticed that they are described as java, spanish, frog moss, pillow, riccia, sphagnum, natural moss etc etc, but since the pictures in viv section are too small to see the difference in type, I googled it and found this site http://bryophytes.plant.siu.edu/mossimage.html
> It shows a lot of them but provide them only with scientific or biological names only and I have no idea which ones are those used in frog vivariums.
> ...


I hate to burst your bubble, but all of the 'species' displayed on that page are of temperate and most all of those require at least a short duration of dormancy (couple three months in Southern regions). A couple I know not to become exhausted with a cool tropical culturing, are dicranum and of spagnum. There are some/many (true tropical) species of the genus ditrichum, the one they portray may fare but surely not as well. There are also the polytrichums that are somewhat tricky to culture and tend to pick their prefered establishment. I've heard/seen some peoples' set-ups stocked with moss indigenous to Florida all the way North to Canada (spagnum=tundra) and having it grow. In some cases it reverts to a tropical rythum, but with results unrelated to how it grows in its native lacation. With the others that go on, they will either die of within a couple weeks/days due to the heat differential or continue to grow until they become exhuasted. In the cases where it happens to survive this transistion it will eventually lose it's traditional color and become sparing, sporatic and leggy (hanging by a thread [just surviving]). In a viv designed and artificially maintained climatically for the needs of darts these mosses are usually steered away. There are many more choices of tropical that require the same conditions and are able to maintain their true beauty in this habitat, liverworts are indeed one of the best and deffinately on my list of favorites.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

From what I've stuck in my tanks and seen what works, Dicranoweisia dies very quickly and Fissidens don't do too well, they don't die, they just get taken over by other mosses.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2006)

Here is a link with some mosses I grow.

http://www.vivariumforum.com/community/ ... 38#post338


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## jmoose (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks for great info.,

Stchupa, when I came across the website I put a link up, they look so beautiful and I was hoping that I could use some for a viv set up. I didn't even think about which ones fit to which temp. / region etc ... well I simply did not know anything about them. I still don't know nothing yet. Will learn !!! Thanks.

I am finally getting used to dart frogs' scientific names and now those complicated names for plans ... :shock: 

Probably I will get most plants from Black Jungle since they have many selections and seem they have good reputation in this community. They happen to be a regular at NY Reptile Expo which is held regularly in my area

While I was browsing for moss and fern, somehow I bumped into this site carnivorousplantnursery.com and checked their sale section. These plants are beautiful, too. I assume nobody use this kinda plant for a frog viv. but it so cool looking and I am seriously set up a viv. just for those plants. Anyone know if there is frog-safe plants in there ? I see some plants are sticky to catch insects and those are not good for frogs, right ?

nawth21, if you are still looking for liverwort, I found this site http://wardsci.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=liverwort 
I don't know if they are the right kind for a frog viv., though


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2006)

Carnivourus plants are often used with frogs. But you will have to wait till the Carnivourus Plants (CP) experts (gurus) on the board chime in. Im not sure, but I think C'est Ma (Diane) or Kero Kero (Corey) is/are CP gurus. Maybe if you edit the title of the thread to include "Help with CP's" you can attract them here.

Good Luck!


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

Utricularia(terrestrial bladderworts) and Pings(butterworts) can be used with darts though the Pings need quite a bit of light. some here use Nepenthes but i REALLY advise against it i wont rehash it here but if you do a search for Nepenthes you will find several fairly recent threads on it

Sarr's(North American Pitcher plants) Venus Fly Traps and Sundews(in the case of small frogs) should not be used. the Sarrs and VFT's are temperate and need dormancy and they also need TONS of light


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## Danyal (Apr 15, 2006)

isn't ricca a type of liverwort? does it do well?


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Rattler_mt: Sundews can trap frogs?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

ricca does do well in damp well lit conditions. I have just added some to a couple of my tanks and will get some pictures when it fills in.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

check out the picture here from Brians Tropicals:
http://www.brianstropicals.com/supplies.html


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

> Rattler_mt: Sundews can trap frogs?



a small frog(young thumbnail) and a large sundew? i think its possible, unlikely but possible. an adult Tinc wouldnt have problems though. most sundews need LOTS of light also though, most than a standard tank recieves


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

rattler_mt said:


> something that MAY work for getting liverworts, take some peat moss, especially the bale type versus the lil bags. ald keep it soaked in a tray under lights. yah might get liverworts that way on its own but if you can seed it some how it will work better.


As a follow-up to Rattler's comment, I seem to have good luck (if you want to call it that) in getting liverworts to pop up out of the baled New Zealand sphagnum. It always shows up in the most brightly lit portions of the viv.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/ ... 7_2702.jpg

Also with having the sphagnum moss spring back to life....this is a slow process but one that pretty much guarantees over time that the moss in your viv tolerates the conditions there...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/ ... 7_2701.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/ ... 7_2709.jpg

I use fairly low wattage lighting over my vivs (one 15 watt tube light over a 29 gallon for example) so I suspect that if I cranked up the wattage to what I see many of the board members using the process would be much faster.

Bill


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## jmoose (Jun 21, 2006)

Hey thanks for great info., guys.

Over the weekend, I visited my local nursery and found some CP there and I now am in love with those guys.
I am def. planning to have a viv set up just for them in the near future.

While I was there, I asked the guy from store if he carries any mosses and the guy goes " Yeah, we have so many diff. types here".
I though I hit a jack pot .... then he took me to the section of good variety of mulches. :shock: Well I should've noticed we were not talking the same thing when he pronounced mosses some like "murush" 

Anyway, I found two type of mosses there. One was called "Scottish moss" (very small pot and $15.00) and other was "Peacock moss" which was very beautiful.

Anyone use these in your dart frog vivs ?
I really like put peacock moss in my viv.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

peacock moss is likely a Selaginella species. it seems to be hit or miss. this genus will do awesome for me in one tank and in the tank next to it i cant keep it alive to save my life. kinda wierd. my best luck so far seems to be bright light and have it growing in gravel at the edge of a pond. for the most part it doesnt grow for me in soils but this isnt 100% true either. at one point i had close to 10 species but i think im down to 2 that are doing well. definatly a plant to try cause when it does well it looks great in dart tanks. its not a moss, i thik its closer in relation to ferns but its not a fern either, IIRC its called a "spike moss"


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

^^ Club Moss.

And I agree, one tank the stuff does good, the other tank the stuff is mush. I just got some of this...


















...but I'm afraid to try it b/c of my past experience with this genus and terrariums. I have noticed that most of them don't like their foliage to be wet but rather prefer their roots to be wet/moist. Kinda hard to do when you mist ya know?


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## jmoose (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks rattler and Antone,

Yeah, that what I thought. They look more like ferns than anything else.
Too bad they might not do well in the frog viv. since it looks so nicely detailed plant.
But I think I'm gonna pick it up any ways not for viv. but just as my house plant.

Antone,
The links to pics you uploaded are not showing up right.
Is the chance you can fix it for us ?

Thanks


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

> ^^ Club Moss.


depends on where yah look. most of the time i see it refered to as spike moss but i have seen it refered to as club moss though its not what i think of when i think of club moss cause i think of true club mosses. in all reality neither is right cause it isnt a true moss. common names suck


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2006)

My Saleginella is doing really well in the brightly lit areas of my tank, and has grown into the pond. It looks great and stays prostrate, usually when I can;t find my firebelly toads it becuase they are standing on the saleginella!! I also planted it in other areas of the same tank where It hasn't died but hasn't taken off.

When I was planting my 29 gallon viv, I went to a nursery and aked for moss and ended up with baby tears and something that looked like a real short grass which turned to mush real fast. The Baby's tears never took off, but one year later its still hanging on for dear life.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Antone, like the Oak Leaf Creeping fig, it does well in the upper part of vivs. It like my 75 too well, I've got it everywhere. Having said that, I can't get it to not grow in my waterfall. On a monthly basis, I can rip it out by the handfull.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

jmoose, the pics work, you may want to try a different browser or check your firewall settings or something.





defaced said:


> Antone, like the Oak Leaf Creeping fig, it does well in the upper part of vivs. It like my 75 too well, I've got it everywhere. Having said that, I can't get it to not grow in my waterfall. On a monthly basis, I can rip it out by the handfull.


See, maybe for you, but I've had very mixed luck. I'm gonna try it in this 35 hex that I'm putting together. We'll see.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

> See, maybe for you, but I've had very mixed luck. I'm gonna try it in this 35 hex that I'm putting together. We'll see.


LMAO isnt this stuff frustrating? the Selaginella torques me off the most as i love how it looks. you should hear the snickers i get on the CP forum for not being able to grow "beginer species" :lol: give me something thats supposed to be difficult and its a freaking weed, however if anyone is supposed to be able to grow it watch me scream in frustration as it keels over in a matter of weeks :shock: :?


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Yep! I hear ya.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Thats Selaginella uncinata, rainbow moss. 

I should have some Selaginella umbrosa with me shortly. Anyone else here have any experience with it? 

How well does Sphagnum do in vivs?


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

sphagnum is a temperate plant, doesnt live for long in dart tanks

never got my Selaginella umbrosa to establish in my tank but i only had a small cutting to try. ive had my best luck with the varigated form of kraussiana and a small Selaginella sp. unknown. but like i said i can get them to grow in one tank but cant get cuttings to establish in the tank next to them


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Spaghum has been in my tank for over 2 years. DOES AWESOME. Vivaria also has it in their vivs.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

LOL really? i cant get the stuff to grow in mine and my basement stays fairly cool, it does grow in some of my CP pots though. are you sure its sphagnum? dont mean any offence but over the years of growing CP's ive come across ppl who thought they had sphagnum and it turns out it wasnt.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

I am 100% sure  But you should try to get some of the spaghum moss(dried) from somewhere in SA and try to bring it back. Thats where i got all mine, and may be why i have such good luck. I could get a pic of it and post it. I think youd like the stuff to, it looks great in a viv


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

right now im using dried Chilean for my CP's and thats whats coming alive in my CP pots. have tried introducing it into the frog tanks but no luck.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Heres what i did, maybe itll work for you too. I put some moss into a tuppaware container, with a lid so it stayed extremely humid and moist. after it started coming back i let it stay till it started to fill out. Once that happened i just placed it ontop of dried spaghum in my viv. Its doing great! I even have some flevopol background coming alive with spaghum now.


and heres a pic


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

also look at this pic from vivaria. 
http://www.vivaria.nl/photogallery/phot ... umd04.html


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

yep definatly sphag, looks to be the same species i have or close to it. yeah i know how to get it started but getting it going in a viv is the problem.


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Well im sure you have good lighting with the plants you keep. Ive noticed it doesnt do well withotu good lighting, i have at least 40 watts of pc above the vivs with it. Other then that iunno why itd be a problem...its a buimmer its a nice lookin moss in vivs, actually i think its my favorite, and i have the tropical from black jungle, and ive used the other pillow mosses, java, yet its my fav. I say you should keep givin it a try, it looks phenomendfljasdl(you get the point  its one of those words for me...) in a viv.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

yep ive got plenty of light, its some other factor its not liking, perhaps the form i have is more temperate than yours


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Possibly, maybe once i get the time, i can send you some, and see if it works out.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

the trick to most mosses is spraying w/ ro or distilled. i have at least 3 types of non tropicals culturing in my tanks for years. i also have bladderworts and liverworts growing. they key is the water quality and frogs dragging around the spores and fertilizing. hard tap will quickly calcify the "leaves" and kill the plant. 
my lighting for these mosses are 2 - 34watt shop flourescents placed about 2 - 4 feet above the tanks. i`ll edit w/ pics in a bit.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Thats funny you mentioned that Aaron, I was just getting ready to post the same comment. Although my lighting is a bit stronger now.


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

thats not the only key cause RO is all that i use. my tap water is lethal to CP's so i always have a supply of RO on hand. im using 4, 32 watt T8 lights per two tanks lights placed as close as i can to the tops of the tanks(bout a foot above the 10 gals, within 4 inches of the exoterras) this amount of light is good enough to color up Pings placed 18 inches away. my light is suffecient and my water is good  running into problems elsewhere :?


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