# Metal Coat Hanger Safe for Mounting?



## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

The title, really explains it all, would I be ok to use cut coat hanger wire to mount broms?


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

§lipperhead said:


> The title, really explains it all, would I be ok to use cut coat hanger wire to mount broms?


Mounting would be ok, but I see an issue with the coat hanger rusting out and depositing rust stains. Plastic zip ties would do the same thing but would not rust. You can get them in the electrical department at your local big box.


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## DizzyD (Sep 19, 2006)

I wouldn't use steel, don't know for sure but I don't think it's so good for everyone involved (rust,etc). I imagine that it would eventually rot, break, and skewer one of my frogs. I would head on out to the local craft store and grab some 1/8" (or something rigid enough to pierce a background if that's what you're going for) stainless steel wire. No rust, no worries. You can even pull them off w/ pliers later on once the broms adhere themselves and re-use them later.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Or get a roll of florist wire. Can probably be found a lot of places. Craft stores, for example. I found some at Lowes for less than 2 bucks.


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## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

I dont think rust would be a problem at all. Especcially that small of an amount. The broom should start to mount itself by the time it rusts.

I believe skysdale , I might be wrong. Has numerous vivs set up with rusted metal mixed in the leaf litter. Like old cans and what not. I read somewhere in the thread that frogs in the wild were found alot in rusted metal objects and were even breeding in them . . . 

Maybe someone else can chime in that remembers more clearly. . .


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

ive used metal pins and staples for a while with no noticeable effect on the frogs.

on a side note... i use these and they work great

just a representative pic. i believe you can also get them in stainless if you were worried about it.











james


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

I have been using these U shaped plant hooks for some years now with no ill effects on the frogs when they rust away. So I believe you should be fine.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Rust itself is iron oxide from what I understand, which is one of the ingredients in one of the popular clay substrate recipes so I don't think rust itself should really matter - if I'm wrong someone please point it out. Sharp metal caused by rusting and breaking might be another issue though


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I'm a hydrogeologist and do a lot with soil and water sample analytical data, so I know a bit on the subject of metals in various environmental media. But, not being a biologist, I don't know the effects of small quantities of metals on frogs. What I do is primarily related to toxic levels in humans. Some heavy metals, such as arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury, are toxic to humans at very low concentrations. Other metals that are not toxic to humans are very toxic to aquatic life (copper and zinc, for example). Toxic levels are on often the order of parts per million or parts per billion. 

Given that frogs live in a wet environment, they are probably more likely to absorb contaminants from the water. Any metals present in the vivarium will ultimately make it into the water at some level and might affect the frogs. For this reason, I avoid the use of any metal objects in my vivariums and aquariums.

Steel is an alloy of iron - meaning that it's not pure iron, but includes other metals to add strength resistance to rusting, make it more flexible or more rigid. etc. Stainless steel has a higher content of other metals, particularly nickel, to inhibit rust. Different grades of regular steel include other metals in small amounts. Coat hanger wire is a low grade steel that probably contains some chromium, cadmium, nickel, zinc, tungsten, titanium and aluminum. It is coated with various types of epoxy or varnish products to prevent rust. However, once you cut it and expose the steel, it most definately will rust.

Any kind of metal wire could be a problem even if it's coated. Galvanized wire is steel coated with zinc. Copper wire is a big problem.

I'm sure this is far more of an answer than you wanted. Sorry to slip into geek mode.

Good luck.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

steel is made from iron and carbon. other metals may be combined to create different properties, never heard of al being mixed in. SS is created from steel and up to 12% cobalt or nickel along with other metals to create a wide range of alloys.

either way i seriously doubt there are any significant issues that would arise from using most commonly available steel and SS.

james


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Jim,

Maybe you know something about this from your background - aluminum oxide and iron oxide are two ingredients in a clay soil recipe some of us use, which is based on samples taken from Panamanian soil, so would you think those ingredients would really be harmful? Also, many people use paper clips and floral mounting wire to mount broms without any noticeable issues, would you think the they or the screen tops that come with aquariums or exo terra type tanks would also be harmful since they get wet, drip, etc?


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## sk8erdave (Aug 21, 2009)

i understand where your going with the mixture of metals in one item, but as said above skysdale uses all kinds of metal objects in his vivs a quick search of the forums and im sure you will find one of his tanks without problems, and yes there has been documentation of wild frogs laying/rearing tads in garbage such as tin cans and what not but it wasn't like that years before we came along and started to dump garbage everywhere we pleased
just my 2 cents Dave


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Sorry folks - I didn't mean to make a big deal about the metal in vivs. Having kept reef tanks for decades, I guess I'm used to being paranoid about metal. Corals are extremely sensitive to water quality and they are as big an investment as dart frogs. Even a small amount of copper will wipe out a tank full of corals and other invertebrates. I always use RO water in my tanks (with high quality salt blends, of course) to remove any residual metals or other bad stuff from the tap water.

So, james - I agree that it's probably not an issue with frogs.

Chris - you are right that iron and aluminum oxides are present in most soil, particularly clay soil. The oxides are also very stable compounds and don't break down further under normal conditions.

I am curious about using clay soil as a substrate. Is there a thread where I can read up on it?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Sure, at the moment I'm using mostly the infield conditioner with Matt's second recipe on top since it's a pain to make a lot of it: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...substrate-thread.html?highlight=ultimate+clay


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## carbonetc (Oct 13, 2008)

A package of wooden skewers has been one of the most useful things I've ever bought for vivaria. I mount broms by forking skewers into the background at the base of the plant and snipping off the excess.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

ChrisK said:


> Sure, at the moment I'm using mostly the infield conditioner with Matt's second recipe on top since it's a pain to make a lot of it: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...substrate-thread.html?highlight=ultimate+clay


Thanks. I'm making my way through the thread - very interesting. I need to try that - food for thought.


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