# Oh, No, My first SLS



## catfish (Mar 28, 2008)

I need some hand holding to get through my first case of SLS. The first aratus froglet morphed out just fine. I was horrified to discover the second froglet with these spiney arms. It's awful. Please help.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

I have noticed this is not a popular subject for people, and rightly so as it is so uncomfortabe to deal with. It is also as another DB'er once said"'very personal" as you have to make choices that you can live with and that you feel are most humane to the frogs. 

If the froglet is very severly affected he may die quickly, or you may choose to help him. If he is not so severe he could live for many years to come. 

Sally


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## catfish (Mar 28, 2008)

Thank you so much for responding. I have to tell you I felt very badly about not receiving any support or words of wisdom from people who have experience. I am new at keeping frogs and felt terrible about this froglet. I euthanized him last night with 20% benzocaine.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

sorry to hear about yoru frog, with taht said there hundres of threads here on DB that will shed light on the matter, also there was one goign aroudn recently where Ed from teh Philly zoo stated taht they go on to live to Adulthood, but they never tried to breed them to see if it was a genetic defect or what most think it is , nutritional.


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## catfish (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks you for the information. I would like to learn what I did wrong. The tads were born in August and it seems to me that they're taking way too long to morph out. I feed them tad bites and spirulina. There are plants and almond leaves in the spring water as well. Some of the tads are very small. Will they ever morph out? The first one morphed in December and is fine but I'm afraid the rest will not be.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

well, no one really knows is one of those diesease we dont' have the answer for, so is not something you did wrong.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Julio said:


> sorry to hear about yoru frog, with taht said there hundres of threads here on DB that will shed light on the matter, also there was one goign aroudn recently where Ed from teh Philly zoo stated taht they go on to live to Adulthood, but they never tried to breed them to see if it was a genetic defect or what most think it is , nutritional.


There is a review of SLS in Leaf Litter the online publication of Tree Walkers (a good reason to join.. as the publication is a good source of information, if I may say so). 

The vast majority of SLS cases in captive anurans are related to husbandry issues with the frogs ranging from nutritional issues to enviromental. If the metamorph is minimally affected then it could survive to adulthood. 
It is believed that there are genetic cases of SLS in the frogs but due to how it is cured, it appears that any genetic cases are being totally hidden by the huge number of SLS cases that are caused by other factors. 
Personally I believe that the vast majority are due to nutritional issues... This also means nutritional status of the adults as limb bud formation starts in the egg and can be disrupted at this point. 

There are also anecdotal reports of SLS issues with young frogs when they start to breed for one reason or another. 

If you have severely affected froglets, then you should consider euthenasia as the froglets will be unable to feed themselves sufficiently and will starve to death. Freezing is not an acceptable method of euthenasia. If you do a search for euthenasia you can find some acceptable methods on here. 

Ed


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

catfish said:


> Thanks you for the information. I would like to learn what I did wrong. The tads were born in August and it seems to me that they're taking way too long to morph out. I feed them tad bites and spirulina. There are plants and almond leaves in the spring water as well. Some of the tads are very small. Will they ever morph out? The first one morphed in December and is fine but I'm afraid the rest will not be.


Yes, that is unusually long for auratus tads to morph. What temperature are you keeping them at? How often do you feed? How often are you doing water changes?


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## catfish (Mar 28, 2008)

JL-Exotics said:


> Yes, that is unusually long for auratus tads to morph. What temperature are you keeping them at? How often do you feed? How often are you doing water changes?


The tads are in a 6"x9"x2" plastic container in the viv. The temperature in the viv is 72.1, but when I took the temperature of the water it was only 68.9. I guess I just assumed the water temp would be the same as the air. I don't really do water changes, but every other week I use a turkey baster and suck up two ounces of dirty water and replace it with RO water. I originally used almond tea water and RO water in the plastic container before the eggs hatched. I feed tad bites (about 4 or 5) twice a week. There is guppy grass and an almond leaf in the water as well. I bought Sera micron powdered food and Josh's Frogs algae mix tadpole food, but must admit I only used them right after the tads were born. I just wasn't sure if I was suppose to use them all throughout the tad's development. The first tad morphed out on December 7th and I thought he was healthy, but today I noticed he is bloated. I've just spent hours reading about what can cause a frog to bloat. I don't mean to "cry on your shoulders" but I feel like a complete failure. I read about frogs for a few months before I assembled a viv. Then, I waited a month more after that while the plants settled in the viv, and read some more, before I purchased 2 frogs. Everything seems to be going wrong.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Catfish,

Sorry you are still having problems, I really do not see any glaring errors you are making, but perhaps someone else will see something. It is also possible the parents are new and they will get better at what they do and you will have beautiful babies in no time. Keep researching like you have been doing, keep asking questions and stop beating yourself up! 

Sally


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

i was talking to marty71 a few weeks ago when it seemed like a plague of sls killed my three clutchs of vent tads this month. like a good friend he got my confadence back up and said i shouldn't worry about lossing these frogs because im producing them, and that another messure of sucess was that all of my adults were healthy. all you need is patience a little trial and error or maybe just some more time and luck.

i'm back to square one with a single weak old tad. your not alone with the sls woes.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Low temperature, limited food and perhaps young parents...a good mix to give you the problems that you've seen. As others have said, these things happen particularly when you are just starting out in the hobby. It happens. I've had new parents throw off perfect offspring right at the start and others that took 1-2 years to get it right.

I suggest a good read of the Tapdole Care sheet

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/20854-tadpole-care.html

for future clutches. Good luck and don't let it get you down.

Bill


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## catfish (Mar 28, 2008)

elmoisfive said:


> Low temperature, limited food and perhaps young parents...a good mix to give you the problems that you've seen. As others have said, these things happen particularly when you are just starting out in the hobby. It happens. I've had new parents throw off perfect offspring right at the start and others that took 1-2 years to get it right.
> 
> I suggest a good read of the Tapdole Care sheet
> 
> ...


Oh , tell me about low temperature. Is the viv too cold for auratus frogs? I have a Repti Temp 500R Thermostat on one end of the viv set to low, so it kicks on about 68. The lights have been on for a few hours, and right now the temp is 73.2. I can certainly kick up the heat if you think I should. I was just reading a thread about how many fruit flies to feed per frog. I've been (mistakenly) throwing in double that amount, so I don't think the adults aren't getting enough food. It certainly could be that the parents are young. I really do appreciate the knowledge people are sharing. Do all tadpoles eventually morph out, or is it possible that some of them never will?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I would not increase the temperature in the viv as I believe that the variables of 1) young parents and 2) inadequate nutrition for the tadpoles were more likely the issue. You may be better off removing the tads from the viv and placing them in a location where you can keep the temperature more in the low to mid 70s. Even then you may find that SLS is an issue.

The sad truth is that at times you simply have to wait for the parents to get to a stage where they the have the right nutritional state (particularly the female). Good supplementation along with regular feeding helps. You can also experiment with different tadpole foods, water conditions, temps etc. within a clutch for clues that can help you down the line.

Good luck.

Bill


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

catfish said:


> Do all tadpoles eventually morph out, or is it possible that some of them never will?


On occassion you may get a "Peter Pan" tadpole that just never wants to grow up. In fact, I think it might have been Bill that had a luec tad that survived for more then a year, maybe 2?? I have a leuc tadpole right now that is nearly 6 months old now and showing no signs of any leg development. It's not common, but it can happen. Of course, cold temps can cause morph times to extend well beyond normal too. It's possible to successfully morph tads that take 5+ months to complete the change if temps are the reason for slow progress.


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