# venus fly trap



## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

right now Im finding venus fly traps everywhere and cheap but Im worried that they might hurt my frog? are anY carnivorous plants harmful to dart frogs? i mainly want one cause i think it would be cool to watch it eat.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

My understanding is it won't survive in a viv for long. It needs seasonal winter conditions.


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## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

oh ok well do you know if they are safe for frogs and ill try one in there? or i could just put it in an empty tank. lol


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

flytraps can eat small frogs. Do a search here or on youtube and see it on video


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/17044-carnivorous-plants-dendrobates-vivarium-guide.html


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

tonybmw328i said:


> oh ok well do you know if they are safe for frogs and ill try one in there? or i could just put it in an empty tank. lol


I'm not sure what was so funny about this question? Maybe I'm missing the subtle nuance of the "lol" anymore...

The plant will eventuall die/rot if placed in a constantly tropical environment. As was mentioned, they require a winter dormancy. If you actually want to purchase one to see it eat, keep it seperately and feed it independently.

If you're really just wanting to put one in a vivarium...do it if you want. You may or may not lose a frog to it (your decision if it's worth the risk), but you will definitely lose the plant at some point. It just comes down to how much potential money you want to burn.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

They cant survive in a tropical tank. It will die pretty quick. No point of putting one in becuase it will rot and die and then ull have to dig the whole thing up and everything


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I`ve been growing cp`s for around 10 years now, and never really was a fan of putting them in my frog viv`s.
I prefer to have my Sundews, Fly Traps and Pitchers out of the way of my trampling Azuerus`s and Leucs.
Fly traps can survive a year or two without winter dormancy, but after awhile they will tire and die.
Find yourself a nice sunny windowsill and put them there.

John


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## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanks everyone guess I'll just try and grow one out of the viv.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

tonybmw328i said:


> Thanks everyone guess I'll just try and grow one out of the viv.


Where are you from?
If you`re getting a Fly Trap now just keep it in a cool spot for the winter-if you have a winter that is.
I usually take mine out from their little winter rest around March.
They will grow very well on a nice sunny windowsill, keep the soil moist with distilled water and they will catch their own food.

John


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## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

I live in Florida so there's not much winter here LOL! I'm thinking about getting like 3 or 4 so the can catch all the fruit flys that escape.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

sundews will work better


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## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

Do you know a good place I could get them?


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Like Frogparty said if you`re looking just to get rid of escaped fruit flys a Sundew would be the way to go.

Try here- Poison Dart Frogs Poison Arrow Frogs Dart Frogs & Exotic Tropical and Carnivorous Plants with Terrarium & Vivarium Supplies by Black Jungle Terrarium Supply

John


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## Toby_H (Apr 6, 2009)

Wouldn’t it be quite simple to keep the Fly Trap in a pot of sorts and remove it for a portion of the year allowing it a dormant/winter period?

Wouldn’t it be quite simple to have two plants in the Viv at all times and one plant out of the tank in a cool place at all times? This would allow 8 months of Viv / 4 months of cool… They are natural to the Carolinas where it gets much warmer than our Vivs in the summer and grow in coastal swamp areas where it stays wet/humid all through the warm months…

This would still leave the risk of the plant eating frogs, so naturally some common sense would be required to let the frogs grow out prior to adding the carnivorous plant… and to not use such plants in tanks where young frogs are going to be added, or remove the plants when small frogs are added… There are also likely some smaller species of frogs they may be a risk to even as adults…

I see that there are risks to be considered… but it seems to me that there are ways to work around the risks… at least in some applications…

Though I do admit and would like to point out, this is not based on personal experience doing so successfully, so if I am wrong please do point out where I am wrong…


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## Omead (Mar 21, 2009)

Carniverous plants really make terrariums/vivarium look a bit more exotic IMO.

I found a tiny venus flytrap at lowes a while back and it has done fine in my viv until the other day it looked like it was drying up but that's my fault. I keep it on a higher ledge that the frogs don't usualy climb up on and I have moss up there as well but I think its too close to the lights so that area dries up fast. I forgot to mist that small corner for a few days and hopefully didn't kill the poor plant. The plant is really small, so small it probably would probably have a hard time eating a hydei. This tank has an adult pair of azureus in it and I'm confident that the frogs are safe from it. I can definately see a medium or larger plant being a risk for darf frogs though. Even if the venus flytrap closed on a frogs foot and the frog moved the wrong way and broke it.

I had a venus flytrap in the past that lived at least a year or two in a terrarium that was constantly room temperature and above 70% humidity. I moved and gave the terrarium away so I don't know what happened after. I'm sure it got exhausted..


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Toby, the fly trap needs to be outdoors in full sun year round, period. Don't try to keep it indoors at all. 

For indoor CPs I recommend a sundew, butterwort, or any nepenthes.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

back2eight said:


> Toby, the fly trap needs to be outdoors in full sun year round, period. Don't try to keep it indoors at all.
> 
> For indoor CPs I recommend a sundew, butterwort, or any nepenthes.


Full sun year round for a fly trap?
No dormancy period?

I`ve been keeping fly traps on a sunny windowsill in my home for years.
Forgive me, but saying they should only be kept outdoors ''period'' is a little one sided.
Many forms of Carnivorous plants can be grown indoors as well as outdoors.
Check Peter D`Amato`s book -The Savage Garden

John


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I understand that a venus flytrap could close on a frogs foot, but could Sundews hurt a frog? I have no experience with them.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Sundews are covered with a very sticky, glue like substance. A frog that comes in contact with this stuff would be pretty unhappy.

John


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Sundews are covered with a very sticky, glue like substance. A frog that comes in contact with this stuff would be pretty unhappy.
> 
> John


Thanks John

That's what I figured. I've been recently looking on some CP forums. These are a must for the frog room (outside the frog vivs)

*Very cool plants!*


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

they are super cool. 
Butterworts, bladderworts, and maybe a heliamphora(feeling lucky?) are all Id reccomend for inside a viv.
there are many good cp discussions here already, covering lots of good points, pros/cons etc as well as video of flytraps eating frogs


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

_Full sun year round for a fly trap?
No dormancy period?_

Yes, full sun outdoors year round. I know my CPs, so arguing with me on this is pointless. They go dormant outside in the winter. What do you think the wild ones do? Do they have someone bringing them inside and cutting off their traps and putting them in a refrigerator? The only time they should be brought in is if you live up north somewhere, and then you can stick them in a basement or refrigerator for their dormant period. They are native to North Carolina. Here in Mississippi they grow outdoors without any help from me year round and do beautifully. 

Get The Savage Garden by Peter DAmato

Also the Ebook put out by Sarracenia Northwest. Really useful information.

and here's my website MK Farms of Mississippi, LLC - HOME 

People kill VFTs by treating them like tropical plants. They're not.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

_Wouldn’t it be quite simple to keep the Fly Trap in a pot of sorts and remove it for a portion of the year allowing it a dormant/winter period?_

No, viv conditions are not suitable for VFTs. Not nearly enough light, and way too humid. They need the full force of the outdoors sun to thrive properly.

_I`ve been keeping fly traps on a sunny windowsill in my home for years.
Forgive me, but saying they should only be kept outdoors ''period'' is a little one sided.
Many forms of Carnivorous plants can be grown indoors as well as outdoors.
Check Peter D`Amato`s book -The Savage Garden
_

I know the savage garden cover to cover. It doesn't recommend VFTs for inside use. They are just not going to do very well indoors. The only people who should use them indoors are those who live in arctic regions, and then their VFTs are not going to be very healthy.

_I found a tiny venus flytrap at lowes a while back and it has done fine in my viv until the other day it looked like it was drying up but that's my fault. I keep it on a higher ledge that the frogs don't usualy climb up on and I have moss up there as well but I think its too close to the lights so that area dries up fast. I forgot to mist that small corner for a few days and hopefully didn't kill the poor plant..........I had a venus flytrap in the past that lived at least a year or two in a terrarium that was constantly room temperature and above 70% humidity. I moved and gave the terrarium away so I don't know what happened after. I'm sure it got exhausted.. _

VFTs need to be kept boggy. a nepenthes would work in that environment, but not a VFT. Plus they don't need the humidity, and you can't give it enough light in a terrarium. It might survive up to 2 years like this, but the poor conditions and no dormancy will eventually kill it.

_They are natural to the Carolinas where it gets much warmer than our Vivs in the summer and grow in coastal swamp areas where it stays wet/humid all through the warm months…_

As far as I know the only place they are naturally found is in North Carolina. IF they are anywhere else, they have been introduced. And you won't find them doing very well in swampy areas. They are in bogs, which is totally different. Bogs are wet areas but without all the tree cover. Bogs are in full sun usually fed by a natural spring or something to keep them wet, but are not covered by trees. Swamps are too rich in nutrients for any CPs to do well. There is a big difference.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Starting on page 38 of The Savage Garden the author devotes nearly 2 pages of windowsill growing.
He also has a pretty nice picture of a Nepenthes and a Ping. grown on a windowsill.
I`m not trying to start a debate here, I`m just saying you can grow them indoors with success.
I`ve been doing it for years.

John


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes. A nepenthes and a ping you can. They should be indoors, as they are tropical plants. However, the plant in question here is a *FLY TRAP* which is not tropical and will not do well indoors. I've been doing this for over 10 years, and I have a CP nursery. I wouldn't have survived this long if I didn't know what I was doing with these plants.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I have also found some misinformation in the Savage Garden as well. Some of what they say contradicts information that you get from Sarracenia Northwest and Borneo Exotics. It could be a difference of opinion I guess, but if I have any concerns about what Savage Garden says, I go to other sources to double check. For instance, they have a N. Madagascariensis listed as Highland, but everywhere else I see it listed as lowland. I have tried growing it in both conditions to see for myself, and have found it to grow in lowland conditions. So that is one error. I see in Savage Garden that they say a VFT can be grown in a sunny windowsill to be removed and kept cooler for a winter dormancy requirement. I disagree. I guess it could be kept that way if you didn't live in a good place for them to grow naturally outdoors - in that case that would be the best that you could do for these plants. However, they will do much better if left outdoors in as much sun as you can get them. Sun shining through a windowsill is filtered and is not the same as growing outdoors. I would like to hear from someone who has kept the same VFT alive for 5+ years grown indoors. It usually doesn't happen. They die out after 2-3 years if not given the correct conditions.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I have seen many colonies of fly traps growing in pine bogs first hand. Shaded by pine trees, getting dappled light. I have an article somewhere about flytrap poaching with pics of the same habitat. combo of peat and pine neeles for substrate, with fallen logs and standing pines. Other carnis wre also present in these areas. I still agree its not a viv plant, but on a windowsill near the glass it would getmuh colder than the rest of the room and may suffice for prolonged periods. If its working its working. Sarracenias live for several years in a terarium, but you won't likely see them flower if hey dont get a winter rest, and may only live a fraction of their potentia life span indoors. 

With nepethes many get so large that to kep them contained in a viv would require constant trimming, and you would nve see their uper pitchers, which are the most spectacular in many cases. And since pitchers never last forever, all the lower ones would eventually shrivel and you'd just have a vine. Most nepenthes people see are young seed grown starts or clones still in the basal rosette stage. What most fail to realize is that this is only a temporary stage before the plant turns into a scrambling vine.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

back2eight said:


> I have also found some misinformation in the Savage Garden as well. Some of what they say contradicts information that you get from Sarracenia Northwest and Borneo Exotics. It could be a difference of opinion I guess, but if I have any concerns about what Savage Garden says, I go to other sources to double check. For instance, they have a N. Madagascariensis listed as Highland, but everywhere else I see it listed as lowland. I have tried growing it in both conditions to see for myself, and have found it to grow in lowland conditions. So that is one error. I see in Savage Garden that they say a VFT can be grown in a sunny windowsill to be removed and kept cooler for a winter dormancy requirement. I disagree. I guess it could be kept that way if you didn't live in a good place for them to grow naturally outdoors - in that case that would be the best that you could do for these plants. However, they will do much better if left outdoors in as much sun as you can get them. Sun shining through a windowsill is filtered and is not the same as growing outdoors. I would like to hear from someone who has kept the same VFT alive for 5+ years grown indoors. It usually doesn't happen. They die out after 2-3 years if not given the correct conditions.


Well guess what?
I`m one of those people you`re going to hear from.
I would say at least 5-6 years of growing the same fly traps on a nice sunny windowsill!
I also have a friend who`s been growing his in his front porch for about the same time.

I have visited your web-site several times, you always have beautiful plants for sale.
I don`t doubt your knowledge for a second, but I`m also not someone who just picked up his first C.P. at the corner store.

John


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

frogparty, I know the kind of growing conditions you are talking about, where the pine trees are encroaching on the habitat of the CPs. They are around here where I live as well. The sarracenia that I see growing in those conditions are being overtaken by the trees and are spindly, weak, and dying out. The only ones that look healthy and reach their full potential are the ones that are in the bogs without tree cover where they can get full sun. I took one of the sars from the shady area and planted it in a pot for my own. I could do this, because it was in my back yard where I used to live. When I got that plant in a pot with peat moss and put it in the full sun, it reached nearly 3 feet tall in the next growing season, and I have since divided it out 6 times, and that was only about 5 years ago. The ones that remained in the wild where the trees were kept looking worse and worse each year and eventually died out. 

I'm not saying that you can't keep a VFT or a sar alive inside your house for a couple of years. I just think that if you are going to have a plant, try to give it the best conditions that you possibly can so it will reach its full potential and look the best it can. I'm lucky enough to live in a place where these plants grow naturally, so I don't have to do anything special to keep them alive - just lots of water and lots of sun. I had a shipment to send out today, and I send my sars bare root - they were frozen an inch deep into the pots. I just pulled them up, ice and all, and packed them! The pitchers are brown and dead, but this is as it should be for this time of year. PEople who try to protect them from this kind of weather are not doing the plant any good.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

back2eight said:


> frogparty, I know the kind of growing conditions you are talking about, where the pine trees are encroaching on the habitat of the CPs. They are around here where I live as well. The sarracenia that I see growing in those conditions are being overtaken by the trees and are spindly, weak, and dying out. The only ones that look healthy and reach their full potential are the ones that are in the bogs without tree cover where they can get full sun. I took one of the sars from the shady area and planted it in a pot for my own. I could do this, because it was in my back yard where I used to live. When I got that plant in a pot with peat moss and put it in the full sun, it reached nearly 3 feet tall in the next growing season, and I have since divided it out 6 times, and that was only about 5 years ago. The ones that remained in the wild where the trees were kept looking worse and worse each year and eventually died out.
> 
> I'm not saying that you can't keep a VFT or a sar alive inside your house for a couple of years. I just think that if you are going to have a plant, try to give it the best conditions that you possibly can so it will reach its full potential and look the best it can. I'm lucky enough to live in a place where these plants grow naturally, so I don't have to do anything special to keep them alive - just lots of water and lots of sun. I had a shipment to send out today, and I send my sars bare root - they were frozen an inch deep into the pots. I just pulled them up, ice and all, and packed them! The pitchers are brown and dead, but this is as it should be for this time of year. PEople who try to protect them from this kind of weather are not doing the plant any good.


I understand what you`re saying, I really do.
One question, do you ever have a problem with Squirrel`s or any other critter`s munching your plants?

John


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Im familiar with sarracenias I have grown many species and hybrids. I know a great breeder here who has been selectively breeding for perennial pitchers, last 3 years so far, even @20 degrees. Sarracenia NW is also close by. I still like my darlingtonia better

I lost almost my whole collection 2 years ago to severe cold because I didnt remove thm from my porch to the greenhouse when temps hit 0 but up until then, I alwaysjust left them in my porch's bog planter all year with no problems. 

Yeah, the sarracenias in the pine bogs werent doing great, but the sundews and flytraps were thriving.


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I'm sorry if it seems I'm arguing. There is so much misinformation out there about these plants, and then they get the reputation of being hard to grow, when they really aren't. My whole point was to answer the posters question about if a VFT could go in a viv or not.

The only problem I currently have with my sars and vfts outside is leaves and pecans falling on them. I have yard dogs and cats, so they will chase away any squirrels or other critters. My cat likes to bat around at them sometimes, but overall I haven't had too much trouble with animals messing with my plants. Right now they are nearly covered with fallen leaves, and I haven't bothered to remove the leaves because they are dormant anyway. But I notice I can't keep then as "clean" as my plants that are in a greenhouse. I have thought about getting a greenhouse for them and leaving windows and doors open and not heating it in the winter, but the only reason I haven't is that if I put them in a greenhouse they wouldn't get the rain water.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

No worries.
Great talking to you.

John


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