# Thinking about Rain Frogs



## Wolfiemix (Apr 20, 2021)

I am planning to get a Common Rain Frog in the next few months. I've been reading as much of the few care guides available and saving everything I plan to buy for the terrarium as bookmarks. However, I can't seem to find any sellers. I find Mozambique Rain frogs, but I don't want those... I am looking for these: 




They bought theirs from a shop in Japan, but I live in Texas. I am going to a reptile expo in May to see if any vendors are selling any, but if anyone has ANY care guides or idea of where to buy one just let me know.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The thing is what seems to be attracting ppl to these guys is the youtube vids of behavior that they show when they are accosted. What people are seeing as "cute" is the frog pretty much thinking its in danger of being killed and eaten.

Also the pulling them out of hiding to have them run across a bed is an example of more poor human behavior.


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## Wolfiemix (Apr 20, 2021)

Kmc said:


> The thing is what seems to be attracting ppl to these guys is the youtube vids of behavior that they show when they are accosted. What people are seeing as "cute" is the frog pretty much thinking its in danger of being killed and eaten.
> 
> Also the pulling them out of hiding to have them run across a bed is an example of more poor human behavior.


Lol it wasn't the video that made me like them. I'm fine with an animal I don't see most of the time since they prefer to be under the dirt. I just want to own one cuz of the way they look, I don't really like noise anyway so I don't care that they squeak nor do I want mine too when I get one.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Well, i understand the appeal but unless they are pulled out wont really get to see him much.

A troubling addendum is that because of their small size and specialized adaptations it is likely they are not often enough housed in large enough environments which means their normal behavior is strictured unfairly.

There are many species of frogs that have interesting looks, and their behaviors are interesting as well and can be accommodated by captive strategy.

Behavior and enabling its expression is important and included in The 5 Freedoms of Animal Welfare.

Please consider this in the choice of a pet frog.


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## Betta132 (May 12, 2012)

What is it you like about them, is it the general shape? You might look at pac-man frogs, instead. They're much less cute once they're no longer babies, but they are nice and round, and they come in interesting patterns. They burrow, but only enough to embed themselves in the soil, so you'll see them frequently. Or you could look at bumblebee toads, which aren't spherical, but are very cute, frequently visible, and have relatively straightforward care. 

Rain frogs are precious, but you'll hardly ever see them. And in general, I would recommend being very careful with "cute" animal videos from Japan. A _lot_ of people there buy animals just because they're cute, and then can't properly care for them at all, but continue to post them on social media as cute. This is a relatively minor example- at least the frog in the video isn't currently in massive distress. And there are a ton of animal cafes in Japan, which are not at all a good environment for most animals. Cat cafes work well if the cats can escape, but I've seen footage of owl cafes, hedgehog cafes, all sorts of animals that are not remotely suited to be hauled out in the day and be poked at by a bunch of people. "Cute" videos of non-domestic animals (and even of domestic animals) should always be looked at carefully, but IMO, if it's from Japan, it needs to be carefully looked at twice.


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## Wolfiemix (Apr 20, 2021)

Betta132 said:


> What is it you like about them, is it the general shape? You might look at pac-man frogs, instead. They're much less cute once they're no longer babies, but they are nice and round, and they come in interesting patterns. They burrow, but only enough to embed themselves in the soil, so you'll see them frequently. Or you could look at bumblebee toads, which aren't spherical, but are very cute, frequently visible, and have relatively straightforward care.
> 
> Rain frogs are precious, but you'll hardly ever see them. And in general, I would recommend being very careful with "cute" animal videos from Japan. A _lot_ of people there buy animals just because they're cute, and then can't properly care for them at all, but continue to post them on social media as cute. This is a relatively minor example- at least the frog in the video isn't currently in massive distress. And there are a ton of animal cafes in Japan, which are not at all a good environment for most animals. Cat cafes work well if the cats can escape, but I've seen footage of owl cafes, hedgehog cafes, all sorts of animals that are not remotely suited to be hauled out in the day and be poked at by a bunch of people. "Cute" videos of non-domestic animals (and even of domestic animals) should always be looked at carefully, but IMO, if it's from Japan, it needs to be carefully looked at twice.


Sorry but I kinda hate pacman frogs. I hate just looking at them tbh, idk why XD. I'm going to an expo and may just get a Mozambique Rain frog instead. Why does everyone question my want for these frogs? It's nice just to know it's there even if it is buried. I don't care if I don't see it, I just want it. It's like buying a horse and getting rid of it if you can't ride it. You don't need to ride the horse, you can just hang out with it and feel happy. I don't need a frog I can see, I can just mist it, feed it, and clean the terrarium when needed and feel happy.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Check out Spadefoot Toads.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Its not questioning You. Its that they have a lifestyle of running across significant expanses and a complexity of behaviors finely tuned to their native situ that cant be duplicated in even the largest exo terra at the show.

Yet, they will _survive _and linger without ever getting to do their thing.

Spadefoot toads are adorable and have alot convergent appearance similarities. They are charming as all heck.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Wolfiemix said:


> Sorry but I kinda hate pacman frogs. I hate just looking at them tbh, idk why XD. I'm going to an expo and may just get a Mozambique Rain frog instead. Why does everyone question my want for these frogs? It's nice just to know it's there even if it is buried. I don't care if I don't see it, I just want it. It's like buying a horse and getting rid of it if you can't ride it. You don't need to ride the horse, you can just hang out with it and feel happy. I don't need a frog I can see, I can just mist it, feed it, and clean the terrarium when needed and feel happy.


While I'm quoting you, and directing this to you, I don't mean this personally, about you, whatsoever. Please don't take this as me saying this is what you'll do. 

MANY people here have seen people come along with wanting a pet that will, essentially, be a pet hole, and all the new people wanting said pet say that they don't care that it's a pet hole, they love them and want one anyways. Fast forward a few months, a year, and those pets are given away, abandoned, etc. because the "love" of owning the pet hole had worn off. I would suspect that this is why people are suggesting alternatives, as they have also seen this pop up either here or on other forums many times in the past, so they're trying to encourage a second thought before getting a pet that may not satisfy you.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Not just on forums, but in real life connections, with support. Even with animals that are not discreet burrowers. Sustained interest in appearance and the Having Factor in juxtaposition to care time and other care factors is rather exceptional in comparison to the eventual desire to rehome. The exception are those who are or become interested in the herpetoculture and whole traits of subject itself. Another thing that happens is serial acquisition, which may be good for the trade but it gets steeped in mediocre or poor care of all the 'pets'.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> Check out Spadefoot Toads.


+1, or sort-of-similar native bufonids such as Great Plains toad. Or if you want small - something like oak toad. Or either of the green toads.

I'm always surprised how much people know about exotic-but-familiar anurans, and how little they know about native-but-obscure ones.


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## Betta132 (May 12, 2012)

A good place for "pet hole" animals is in a small collection of other animals. Then you have other frogs to look at in the meantime, and get to enjoy the occasional rare appearance, instead of being upset that your only frog isn't showing up at all. There's a reason tarantula keepers tend to have several spiders at once. Well- a few reasons. They're a very collectible pet, since care for two tarantulas is about the same amount of effort as care for one tarantula. 
The same principle applies to aquariums, though, for those, you can keep multiple things together. If you want a fish that hides a lot, put some other fish in the tank that don't hide, to enjoy while the one fish is hiding. 

Have you kept herps before? I would start with something simple and easy to keep, that you like, instead of something that's rare in the hobby and has needs that can't really be filled very well.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

These guys don't even have a CITES listing, so finding them for sale somewhere is probably going to be hard. No listing means they just generally are not considered to be in the trade.


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