# Has anyone here had their frogs survive short tongue?



## Stavros (Apr 9, 2007)

I recieved an adult azureus sexed pair last thursday from Patrick Nabors, and they were plenty fat when I recieved them. After a day or so they both started eating, but I noticed the male would miss 50% of the time, and eat half the amount of flies as the female. 

I have been using brand new 50% 50% repcal and herptivite. It seems the male still has an appetite and still manages to down the flies, but he is still missing. When I sit and watch he will manage to down about 15 flies or so before moving on. He has a bit of extra meat on his bones, but I don't want him to waste away over the next couple of weeks.

Just this morning I sat and watched him hold his mouth open like he was breathing from it, and now after reading the boards about this problem I have become paranoid for my male azureus. He is brand new and I want him to do his best. He seems mostly healthy right now, and is eating so I think it is a perfect time to head off this problem before it becomes and issue. I am going to get a fecal done ASAP and send it to Dr. Frye.

Has anyone else survived Short tongue? What shout I do? metro liquid?
Here are pics of him right now, not skinny yet, but I don't want him to waste away!

Male on the left








Male in back


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

patrick is not in the habit of selling people sick frogs. Have you contacted him about this? I'd also say that as long as he is downing flies and isn't loosing weight/looking lethargic i think you're over reacting,


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## salvoz (May 10, 2004)

that animal looks plenty good to me. my female always eats more than the male.


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## Thinair (Aug 27, 2005)

If you plan on doing a fecal, be sure and take the male/or both out and obtain a sample on moist paper towel.

--Carlos


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Looks fat and happy to me too. I notice sometimes particular specimens are just better hunters than other. Bad eyes maybe?  

As long as he doesn't start losing weight you are fine. Those frogs both look beautiful.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

A few observations. The frog in question looks perfectly fine from a nutrition perspective and if said frog had an issue like short tongue, it is highly unlikely that he would have grown up to adulthood. Secondly the 'gaping mouth' behavior is most likely shedding behavior...extremely odd to watch and quite discomforting when first observed. Frogs shed on a daily basis and eat their shed skin.

A fecal analysis, while potentially informative about other matters, will not be of use in diagnosing 'short tongue' as the latter tends to be due to vitamin deficiencies.

My own diagnosis is 'Paranoid Owner Syndrome'. I don't say this to be flippant or derogatory as we have all been there before (present company included) where little odd behaviors of our frogs had us freaking out fearing the worst. I remember the first time I saw a frog shedding I thought it was gasping for breath and its skin was falling off the body due to some infection...lol.

Finally I would contact Patrick and let him know about your concern. Having received a good number of very healthy frogs from him over time, I would be very surprised if you have received a bum frog.

Good luck.

Bill


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## Stavros (Apr 9, 2007)

I know I probably am overreacting. But seeing wierd things happening in the viv, and then reading these forums about these syptoms and then resulting in dead frogs, can easily make one paranoid. 

I did notice that the male is a little bit skinnier today since he spent all day sleeping yesterday and not eating. However with the female taking a nap he came to the feeding tray solo and took down about 25 dusted flies. His accuracy seems much improved as well. Last time he ate he would lunge at least 5-7 times before actually catching the prey, or he would just give up and go back to sleep in his hidey hole.

I still want to have a fecal done even though it is unrelated to STS. In a stressed new environment, a weakend frog that isn't eating and that also happens to have a lot parasites, could make things worse. I want to err on the side of caution and see these frogs lead healthy productive lives.

I knew that Patrick was a top rate breeder, and frog the frogs I recieved are wonderful. I doubt I have anything to worry about. But related to the topic at hand, STS, I have noticed from all the threads I have read, it has always been death in the end. I was wondering if anyone had any sucess dealing with it.

Anyways thanks guys for the extra confidence I was kinda getting bummed reading all those depressing dead frog threads.


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## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

That's good you're concerned about the azureus. Maybe it has nothing to do with a sickness and the female is intimidating or stressing the male? It's not common, but the frogs may not be that compatible, especially being put in a new environment? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I am wondering similar about a juvenile vittatus I am raising. It seems to need several tries before it succeeds in nailing a fly. I think part of the reason is that the flies are Turkish gliders and they often jump or run at the last second. I did switch to feeding him every 2 days a big meal because I heard this stimulates hunting behavior. Perhaps it'd be better just to feed every day?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It does not always have to be fatal. If it is STS (which I doubt based on your observation that when not competing with the female the male was able to feed just fine) then as long as the frog can feed providing sufficient vitamin A in the diet will allow the condition to resolve. 

I have severe concerns about your willingness to jump to dosing with liquid metronidazole when this would have no effect on STS (which if you had read through all of the threads should have seen that it is due to hypoviatminosis of A). Metronidazole can cause serious neurological issues and kill an animal that is overdosed with it. Metronidazole can have a reduced elimination from the body when it is given in higher doses which can more readily allow for poisioning of the frogs... 


Ed


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