# markm's 18x18x18 clean up, tear down and rebuild



## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Hi all,

Wanted to start a journal so I can keep track of this project. It will be picture heavy but I will give explanation as I go and am open to suggestions and comments in general.

So to start at the beginning. My cousin called me awhile back talking about vivariums and how they were awesome. He sent me a few links and just like that I was hooked. I have been lurking around, reading, asking questions and trying to get a grasp on what they are, how best to build one, how to maintain one and what can live within them. Dart frogs with their beautiful colors were a no brainer. With that said, I took some advice from a person wiser than me this board and found some local froggers. The community is so nice and the locals took me right in. Thanks Dart666 and Brainbug! I was offered a ready to go viv for a price that couldn't be beat and picked it up and started cleaning it up. In that process I decided I wanted to really see how the thing worked which meant tearing it all down and putting it back together. Its the engineer in me I guess. So what you will find are pics within that process.

Here is what it looked like when I picked it up. Just some elbow grease needed and some replanting and it would have been ready to go.


I took everything out of it and cleaned it. Took out the few plants, took out and washed the gravel and cleaned it up in general.


I toyed with the idea of a false bottom. It was set up with gravel and then substrate. I am not sold on either yet, thoughts on a FB or gravel?




There is a water feature on the far right so that is why the FB does not extend all the way to the side.


Next I decided I wanted more floor space or at least a way for the frogs (leucs is what I decided will go into this tank when it is done) to climb up and around the viv. So I found some rocks and started laying out some "step stones" that lead higher up in the viv.


I decided to hide the water feature a bit so I added these rocks to hide the water output as well as to guide it all the way to the right of the viv.


Then I spray foamed everything into place, Learned some lessons on spray foam. That stuff PUFFS up big time! You may notice I took out the big center pot and added a smaller one.


Then onto carving. A steak knife and dremel did wonders.
Top view down.


straight on


Then it was onto siliconing on the coco.


Coco dumped on


There were a lot of lessons learned within these first few steps. Many stops to Lowes, Home Depot and the pet store. Lots of staring at the tank getting my ideas straight in my head. Baking coco in the oven. Hosing out the viv after using the dremel. Then drying the viv by turning it over and putting it over a vent over night. Just lots of little things that I needed to learn and I am glad I was able to get this tank, have it set up but also able to do my own thing. 

Thats were I am as of 10pm tonight. More tomorrow I am sure.

Mark


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## hamz77 (Mar 17, 2013)

Nice. looks good!!


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Met up with a local frogger and picked up some treat. 2 bags ABG, 1 bag each of oak and magnolia leaves, 2 cultures of spring tsils and a culture of isopods. Also went to the Portland nursery and p8cked up a few plants.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Got some work done last night. Silicone on and coco and sphagnum moss mixture for the background. Made some vines and mounted those at the same time.


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## RichardA (Jul 15, 2009)

Looking good!


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## BrainBug (Aug 25, 2010)

Hey Mark. The last shot of that tank looks really nice.

As far as the bottom goes. I've done tanks both ways and prefer just filling the bottom with LECA. However, if you want easy access to your pump you can make a box for it with the egg crate and a lid that flips open. I admit that it can be a pain in the ass replacing the pump with just LECA, however I rarely have pump issues that couldn't be resolved be shutting the pump off then turning it back on.

The foam job looks good. If you do another one I'm inviting you to come do it at my place, I do it slightly different, a few less steps to accomplish same thing.

Plants; make sure you mount the brom, if you want it to look planted in the bottom then put a flat rock under to keep the base of the bromeliad from staying wet and rotting. Also, I've never had luck with the baby tears "moss" on the bottom right, I think our vivs are to wet. If you get lucky with it let me know. Also, I have some nice, a bit more rare and colorful broms, rare peperomia cuttings and I should be getting 100 plus jewel orchids in the next month or two for resale. I could also take some cuttings of the small vining ferns I have, mosses, mini-orchids etc. . Happy to sell or trade (for things like beer, plants, etc.)

Nice job thus far man, tank looks 100% better already.


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## BrainBug (Aug 25, 2010)

P.S. who goes through your newspaper crossing out all the pictures?


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks for the tips. I'm still in limbo on the bottom. I may just use the fb as I have it and buy would to buy LECA. I have a 18x18x24 tank I'll be working on after this is up and running so I can try the LECA then. I've started collecting items for that build already and doing things slowly and looking for good deals. I'll keep my eyes peeled for LECA deals. 

The plants, well I'm still reading. Looks like I need to wash the roots, put them in a 5% bleach solution for a few minutes, rinse well and then plant? You do that for the broms too, right? I've read yes and no so....also the brom I bought has 2 pups, is that the right word, that are nearly as large as the main plant. Do you just cut, soak in bleach solution and mount?

I should be adding substrate tonight and hopefully planting and seeding the tank tomorrow. Still reading up on culturing so I can get more going from what I have. Seed with half the culture, add more substrate, feed and I'm good to go? I know there's more but as far as a cut and dry, that's the basics, right? 

Thanks again for the kind words all. Trying my best to give it my 110%.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Oh, and that's my boy crossing out the pics on the newspaper. He's 5 and into crossing the days off the calendar. I guess that crossed over into the newspaper. Lol


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## BrainBug (Aug 25, 2010)

Hey Mark,

I get my LECA at Grow World, about 160th and Division. It's called Hydrocorn and is about $20 for a large bag.

Bare root your plants and I do a 10% soak for about 10 min then rinse well.
As far as the brom goes, you can either remove the pups (or keiki's) or keep them on, if the mother plant has already bloomed she is done growing and will die anywhere from a few months to a couple of years from now. In the meantime she can still keiki out.

As far as splitting cultures goes that should work.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks BrainBug. Next time am I out that way I will pick up a bag of LECA for my next build. I will also up the % for the bleach solution. Is there anything special I need to do when I cut the pups? Just sharp clean knife and cut and mount? Do I need to let the wound seal over or put the pup in a cup of water or whatever?

I got some more work done tonight and I think I will just sit back and stare at the viv and think of what I would have done differently and admire the whole process.

Decided on using the false bottom I made, simply because I made it and I wanted to see how it would function. Added gravel around it. White and then a more natural smaller gray gravel. I almost decided against the white but I like the contrast when I look at the tank dead on. Next round will be all natural but I do like it for this go around. Then I added some wood, Malaysian driftwood I found on craigslist for cheap, to hold the substrate from spilling into the water in the right corner of the viv. Then I added my ABG mixture, a few more scraps of wood and then the leaf litter, oak and magnolia. Poured in about a gallon and a half of water and turned on the pump. Water feature works well and looks nice. I am glad I decided to silicone in some rocks to hide the water output. It just looks like a small spring coming out of the rocks. All in all I am happy with the way it looks. I am starting to figure out where the plants will go and will work on that tomorrow.

Until then a few questions. Should I be getting the soil good and moist? I can mist it and get it moist that way (lots of misting to get it wet all the way through or just add water to the substrate until it is wet all the way through. Once planted how often am I misting this thing? 3 times a week sound right? And am I misting as in getting everything wet or just a spray here and there? I am sure I can find this out with a search and I will be doing so tonight but would love your thoughts to everyone.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Beautiful day out in the Pacific Northwest. Kids have been outside all day so I got some work done. Hit Ace and got glass cut for the top of the viv. Also got around to planting the tank. At least for the most part. Need something that will vine up the walls and some moss here and there. But I am happy with how it looks and will let it grow in a bit and see what I may need and where. Comments welcome if you see anything out of place.

I planted the following

Neoregelia
Nephrolepis Cordifolia
Selaginella Kraussiana
Muehlenbeckia Axillaris

Next I need to seed with the clean up crew and let her sit for awhile and see how things go before I add the luecs!!


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I like the work you've done, but the neos planted in the soil will rot soon. Put them epiphytes, mounted to the background. What frogs do you think to put in it?


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

rigel10- The one in front is actually sitting on top of a flat rock so it has no real contact with the substrate. You think it will still be to wet? The ones up top are placed into the holes I carved out for plants. I did add ABG mix around them to hold them in the holes a bit better, should I not have them planted like that? The one on the side of the tank is indeed mounted with some green wire to hold it on.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Okay, just because I am type A and worry to damn much I moved the broms. Got them all mounted verses planted in ABG. This better??





While you can't really tell. This one is mounted as well. Close to ground level but not at or in the ground.



If there is still room to tweak, please let me know.

Thanks


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

more leaves! the frogs and microfauna will thank you for it.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Done tongo. I got few big bags full from a good guy! BTW, thanks again for the hook up, much appreciated!


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## alogan (Jan 7, 2013)

Hey Mark, I love the design! It's cool to see other people in the state of Oregon that are interested in Poison Dart Frogs. I saw that you were interested in Leucomelas, I know a place called Tropical Hut in Portland has some often, but they are generally way too small and would be best off in a smaller vivarium at first. 

I saw you had a couple of questions about misting, I tend to mist my vivariums a few times a day but not too much. I have had a lot of success with keeping them fairly moist. The only thing you need to worry about is flooding the soil or killing some plants that don't like to be super moist. 

Where in Portland did you purchase the plants? I am fairly good on plants at the moment, but enjoy checking out new plants!


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

In my opinion I think a low growing plant would look much nicer in the bottom left of the tank. You could relocate the brom you have there to either corner of the tank. I just think it looks weird having a brom in that location.

Also if you are looking for moss I would recommend java moss or riccia fluitans.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

You can not imagine how the bromeliads soon rot if they are kept in an inappropriate manner.
As for moss you can use acquatic moss: vesicularia, Xmas moss, Taiwan moss.


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

The larger Brom in the center should be angled up more so that it'll be able to hold water in it's axel. It'll do much better that way. Your leucs will love that tank!


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Thanks all for the kind words and advise. 

alogan- I picked up the plants at th Portland Nursery. The Division one not the Stark st location although they could very well carry the same things.

tongo- I agree, it does look a bit out of place. I honestly couldn't figure out a good place for it in general. The tank is 18x18x18 and it is filling up fast. I'll see about a low grower like you mentioned as I agree it would look better. 

mongo77- Will get the brom angled up more when I get home, thanks!


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

Yeah a nice begonia or low growing vining plant would look much better in that spot. Hopefully we will see eachother again at the expo and you could pick something out there.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

As climbing plant I advise you Begonia schultzei: you would love leaves and delicate flowers of this plant.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Found a guy on Craigslist giving away vittatus darts. Contacted him and met up with him tonight. Man, did he have a frog room and a half. Beautiful viv and beautiful frogs. Not only did he just hand me frogs from his tanks but also gave me plants and ff cultures. The generosity of the people in this hobby amaze me. I've never been handed just about everything to get a viv up and running. Thank you, thank you, thank you, to all that have helped me thus far. 

Here she is with some new plants.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Trying not to bother them but I wanted to get a pic or two. The guy gave me 9. Before everyone gets nuts, most are going to some friends. He didn't have a shortage that's for sure. More than he knew what to do with. He was thanking me for taking them as much as I was thanking him for giving them to me. Lol


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Hey all,

It's been a few days now and things seem to be going well. I checked temps and the viv is at 69 most of the day and has a slight drop at night. I've read that vittatus do well between 60 and 80 with optimal temps at low 70s. Sound right or should I boost the temp? I am using 2 6500K compact fluorescent bulbs. I could switch one with a standard incandescent bulb for heat easily but I'm not sure I even should worry since I'm in the range of acceptable temps. Thoughts, anything to gain by raising the temps?

They seem to be eating well and come out front and center to feed. I ended up buying a culture from Petco while the culture I was given does its thing. Basically the culture is just about ready to produce but it hasn't yet. I also bought ingredients for a homemade media and have started a 2nd culture. I'm not sure yet of how many to make and when but Petco is down the road if I need flies.

I sealed up the viv pretty well and there has been a lot of condensation on the front of the viv. I honestly don't mind but after doing some searches it seemed like perhaps I should have some ventilation. Yes, no? For now I popped the top pane of glass a bit. We will see how it goes.

No calling yet but I've heard some chirps here and there. Very exciting stuff.

Any advice would be helpful. 

Mark


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

take a look at pumilo's step by step on how to make a top vent.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63781-screen-vent-construction-how.html


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

The tank is an Exo Terra tank with a front vent as well as a screen top. I placed glass over the screen so it shouldn't have to do any other mods on it, minus using a fan. I had electrical tape on the front vent so I took that off and pulled the glass back a 1/2 inch. Still a bit of condensation on the front glass so I can decide if i want to add a fan or just deal with it. I suspect I'll deal with it although the more I read the more I am led to believe that the air flow would be good for everything in the viv.


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## markm (Dec 26, 2013)

Hey all, been awhile since I updated this thread. Things are going well. Frogs have settled in and must be comfortable as they have laid two clutches as of now. I have 8 tadpoles that are growing daily. Really cool to watch. The plants are growing in and things are pretty good overall.


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