# Poison Dart Frogs, The Documentary



## Axl

Hello everyone,

It's been long since I don't post now, but I'm back with very exciting news!

We have started project on Kickstarters web (crowdfunding platform) to back a documentary centered on Poison Dart Frogs, Rainforests and their conservation. Not only that, it will cover the role of vivarium and dart frog keepers in the conservation of these amphibians. I've always dreamed of a documentary focused on our interests: PDF behaviour, feeding preferences, breeding locations and hazards; their real habitat and living conditions, the plants that actually relate to them for breeding (like bromeliads and heliconias) or just are part of their landscape (orchids, peperomias, pileas, moses, lichens, ferns...). It is fine to read about it, but a documentary always puts perspective on all these aspects and would also help to improve our vivarium construction to succeed in PDF captive breeding.

We plan to interview experts on Poison Dart Frog and other amphibians conservation that work on many of the Biological Stations across Central and South America Rainforests. They will tell us how captive breeding is actually helping in conservation of endangered species. We'll make their message arrive worldwide.

Here's the link for those who are interested in becoming part of our team: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028087196/poison-dart-frogs-the-documentary

We would be eternally grateful to find you between our backers.

You can follow us on our Facebook page too: https://www.facebook.com/PDFTheDocumentary/

Sorry for the long post!


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## 55105

Awesome! I just pledged $55 to get things started!

Hope other DB members will too.

Good luck on the project!


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## Axl

Thanks a million port_plz!

We truly hope so


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## 55105

Axl said:


> Thanks a million port_plz!
> 
> We truly hope so


Is there anything I can do to help? I could put some links on my website.


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## Axl

Sure! We would be pleased if you could share some info. I'm sending you a dropbox link with official images and video for your web.

7% of our goal in Kickstarter and +40 Likes on our Facebook page in just 48 hours after the official release! Let's keep up the MOMENTUM!


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## Frogsarefun

Just donated to the awesome project! 

I will share this with my local reef and orchid club.

Hoping there is away to make this project/thread more visible to users of this site.

Seems this spot gets fewer hits.
Could it be posted in for sale/ construction/ breeding threads as well?

Since deadline is November 12th, would be nice to get word out!


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## 55105

Obvious Bump!

Come on DB! We pay $100+ a month for cable and $15 just for a movie ticket... Why not pitch in a couple bucks for a chance to see something we all know and love?

The next person to pledge any amount will get a prize from me! Seriously! Well as long as it doesn't violate any kickstarter TOS or anything.


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## eek_420

I just donated can't wait to see how it turns out


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## carola1155

I have some concerns about the research done on this project.

First and foremost, they are promoting the inclusion of "Save The Frogs", an anti-hobby organization that has a very bad history with this forum. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/62089-revealing-truth-about-save-frogs.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sc...hytrid-fungus-lacey-act-usfws-save-frogs.html

Also, the project description has a lot of bad information in it. The simple things like referring to them as being venomous vs poisonous raise questions about the legitimacy of the other information that will be presented.


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## 55105

eek_420 said:


> I just donated can't wait to see how it turns out


Thanks!  Eek I didn't ask for approval before posting this soooo I do need to make sure it is OK but PM me your mailing address! You just won a Pi zero or a powder blue isopod culture. Your choice!


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## 55105

carola1155 said:


> I have some concerns about the research done on this project.
> 
> First and foremost, they are promoting the inclusion of "Save The Frogs", an anti-hobby organization that has a very bad history with this forum.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/62089-revealing-truth-about-save-frogs.html
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sc...hytrid-fungus-lacey-act-usfws-save-frogs.html
> 
> Also, the project description has a lot of bad information in it. The simple things like referring to them as being venomous vs poisonous raise questions about the legitimacy of the other information that will be presented.


I didn't see anything about Save The Frogs and I know they're extremist. Hopefully they're not a sponsor or anything!

I will admit their kickstarter campaign could definitely use some tweaks. But not everybody has the budget/time to hire actors, write scripts and produce professional copy... Especially for such a tiny campaign.


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## Frogsarefun

carola1155 said:


> I have some concerns about the research done on this project.
> 
> First and foremost, they are promoting the inclusion of "Save The Frogs", an anti-hobby organization that has a very bad history with this forum.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/62089-revealing-truth-about-save-frogs.html
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/sc...hytrid-fungus-lacey-act-usfws-save-frogs.html
> 
> Also, the project description has a lot of bad information in it. The simple things like referring to them as being venomous vs poisonous raise questions about the legitimacy of the other information that will be presented.


How about asking some question about your concerns?
I'm thinking Andres would reply to them.
Maybe he is unaware of some of the concerns and questions would ultimately help the project?


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## carola1155

port_plz said:


> I didn't see anything about Save The Frogs and I know they're extremist. Hopefully they're not a sponsor or anything!
> 
> I will admit their kickstarter campaign could definitely use some tweaks. But not everybody has the budget/time to hire actors, write scripts and produce professional copy... Especially for such a tiny campaign.


They posted on their facebook page about how a representative from Save the Frogs will be featured in an interview. Unfortunately, things like this will just give undue publicity/integrity to Save the Frogs.

The quality of the video or acting isn't what concerns me, its the actual information presented. I'd love a documentary on frogs, sure... but I'd want it to be accurate too. I'm not a researcher and could very quickly point out flaws in the information presented.



Frogsarefun said:


> How about asking some question about your concerns?
> I'm thinking Andres would reply to them.
> Maybe he is unaware of some of the concerns and questions would ultimately help the project?


I did try to address it on their fb page and was basically dismissed and told to focus on the "Common goals" of Save the Frogs and this documentary. I think this is a dangerous perspective since it potentially lends legitimacy to Save the Frogs' other goals. 

I was away on vacation for a couple weeks when this was originally posted, otherwise I likely wouldn't have double posted on here and FB about it, but I decided to address it here too since I know many members are (unfortunately) familiar with Save the Frogs and would probably like to know this information.


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## Frogsarefun

carola1155 said:


> They posted on their facebook page about how a representative from Save the Frogs will be featured in an interview. Unfortunately, things like this will just give undue publicity/integrity to Save the Frogs.
> 
> The quality of the video or acting isn't what concerns me, its the actual information presented. I'd love a documentary on frogs, sure... but I'd want it to be accurate too. I'm not a researcher and could very quickly point out flaws in the information presented.
> 
> 
> 
> I did try to address it on their fb page and was basically dismissed and told to focus on the "Common goals" of Save the Frogs and this documentary. I think this is a dangerous perspective since it potentially lends legitimacy to Save the Frogs' other goals.
> 
> I was away on vacation for a couple weeks when this was originally posted, otherwise I likely wouldn't have double posted on here and FB about it, but I decided to address it here too since I know many members are (unfortunately) familiar with Save the Frogs and would probably like to know this information.


Seems the documentary is focused on captive breeding.
Has anything changed with save the frogs and hobby breeders (since last post about them was 3/2011)?


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## carola1155

Frogsarefun said:


> Seems the documentary is focused on captive breeding.
> Has anything changed with save the frogs and hobby breeders (since last post about them was 3/2011)?


It does mention captive breeding, but I didn't interpret the captive breeding mentioned in the kickstarter as having anything to do with hobby breeders. I expect it is referencing things like CRARC or what institutions like the Henry Doorly Zoo are doing, since hobby frogs would likely never be considered suitable for true conservation work. This is why I thought it was ironic that they were soliciting funding from hobbyists for a documentary that is going to feature interviews from an organization that is trying to dismantle the hobby.

Nothing has changed with Save the Frogs as far as I know. It is my understanding that the organization was one of the main drivers behind the recent salamander restrictions.


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## Axl

About the ‘Save The Frogs!’ issue:
‘Poison Dart Frogs, The Documentary’ is an open minded documentary and we think it’s fine to hear from all angles of the community. There is always two sides of every story. We wouldn’t do this if we thought it would have a negative impact for hobbyists or PDFs. It won't. The documentary will be an unbiased view to let the viewer decide their own opinion once shown both sides of things. This will separate this work from all other documentaries out now.
I am myself a hobbyist and I think we all have a lot of questions for these organizations and this is an opportunity to hear their opinion. Just that. I absolutely disagree with the anti-hobbyist movement.
‘Save The Frogs!’ has only offered an interview IN CASE we want to hear from them and also suggested that we speak about illegal amphibian trade. That’s all. Just to clarify, they are not sponsors or anything. We are not interested either.
On the other hand, we are interviewing Wikiri, an organization supporting sustainable amphibian trade and conservation projects. Caring about PDFs conservation is compatible with this hobby and that's what we want to show. Two points of view of the same problem.

If our backers ask to stop this ‘collaboration’ (I should actually stop calling it that way) we will seriously consider so.


About the factual errors:

I am not a native English speaker. I apologize for my mistakes. I’ve been suggested to correct this ‘venom vs poison’ issue so I instantaneously did. In Spanish, there is no such distinction. Suggestions are very welcome! Let’s all improve this project to make it possible.

Also keep in mind that our Kickstarter page is addressed to all kind of people, so information there is for a general public and does not pretend to be scientific.

Please, feel free to ask any doubt. Tom, I’m sorry that you felt dismissed. That was not our intention at all. Opinions like yours are in fact very welcome.


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## carola1155

Thank you for the response. It is appreciated.

I still will suggest that you abandon any sort of interview with Save the Frogs. I understand the desire to provide balance, but there is a real danger associated with giving an activist organization like that another platform to reach people. Including them indicates to the viewers that their opinions and methods are valid, which is not the case. Organizations like WIKIRI are a much better source for a documentary like this and I think you guys would be better served by them.


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## Axl

carola1155 said:


> It does mention captive breeding, but I didn't interpret the captive breeding mentioned in the kickstarter as having anything to do with hobby breeders. I expect it is referencing things like CRARC or what institutions like the Henry Doorly Zoo are doing, since hobby frogs would likely never be considered suitable for true conservation work. This is why I thought it was ironic that they were soliciting funding from hobbyists for a documentary that is going to feature interviews from an organization that is trying to dismantle the hobby.


We think this documentary is open to an understanding between two apparently opposing positions.

Wouldn't you like to ask conservationists about what role has hobby captive breeding in PDFs or other aphibian species? Who wouldn't like our hobby to be positively considered? We certanly do. I politely ask you to read this article: Reptile Hobbyists - Helping or Hindering Reptile and Amphibian Conservation?



> The endangered Solomon Island Prehensile-tailed Skink did not achieve popularity in zoos when first imported into the USA. Pet-keepers learned to breed it in captivity, and have built up huge populations. Today it faces almost certain extinction in the wild, but is secure in zoos and private collections.
> I learned a great deal from several “unsung heroes” whom I met as a boy and in my early years as a zookeeper. Some of these dedicated people were breeding generation after generation of Poison Frogs, Banded Tree Snails, rare tarantulas and other creatures at a time when most zoos could barley keep them alive. I could go on for pages…
> Of course, today it is trendy, or “PC”, for professionals to downplay or deny the role that pet-keeping played in their career development – but, I assure you, the real pros all started out as youngsters interested in keeping wild creatures.


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## carola1155

^ This is actually a good point and an important distinction to make.

My comment above was focused more on the animals themselves not being suitable for conservation work in most cases, but yes the knowledge gained by private hobbyists keeping and breeding them is incredibly important. Hobbyists and private collectors have made a lot of contributions and breakthroughs that allow the institutions to further their work. Pets have also likely inspired many herpetologists from a young age to take up their field. This would be a great topic to cover in the documentary. 

However, to continue beating the dead horse... If "Save the Frogs" got their way, this body of knowledge and inspiration would not exist.


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## Axl

Due to popular demand and allegedly not sincere tactics by STF, we have decided to reject the interview with Save The Frogs!

We hope to count with Wikiri and other-to-confirm leaders in sustainable amphibian hobby and conservation.

I would like to thank every one of you for sharing your opinion and help improve this documentary.

Keep updated at 'Poison Dart Frog, The Documentary' project Kickstarter, Facebook, Twitter or Instagram accounts. Your support is vital.


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## Axl

Hello everyone,

I am posting here a recent post summarizing some FAQs in case you are interested.



CrazyDart said:


> So I love backing things on kickstarter, but I am not sure I completely understand your campaign and the rewards. How long will the video be and what will it tell me? How does the money actually help the frogs in the wild?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk


Hi CrazyDart,

I didn't get any notification from your reply, sorry.

I'm glad you love backing emerging projects like ours on Kickstarter! Rewards are specific for each amount pledged. Some are cumulative and some are not, just as described in the reward section. Please, let me know what is what is confusing you, I'll be happy to clarify 

The video will last at least 1h 30 minutes, but we are now getting in touch with more Biological Stations and PDF conservationists, so we will have quite a few interviews, meaning that it could actually become a two-part documentary 1h 30 min each part. We'll let you know!

How will the money actually help the frogs in the wild?
- This is a NON-PROFIT project. That means 100% of the benefits of sales benefits will go for a PDF conservation project (still to determine which one, we'll keep you updated via our Facebook page).

- The documenary crew will act as mediators between the scietists working in the Biological Stations and the locals, trying to find a way to build (and promote) a common project in order to guarantee conservation of Poison Dart Frogs rainforests.

- By interviewing conservationists and showing their work, we will show the world how important their work actually is. This will help them to increase their funding and donation rate (otherwise, their work wouldn't be possible). Plus, this will have an educational aim too.

Please feel free to ask.


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## Ginja

It's not much but I hope my 50 bucks helps, if I wasn't a broke student I would have given more. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the final product!


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## Axl

Thanks a lot for your support Ginja. We have now reached 21% of our final goal, let's keep up the momentum!


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## WZDesigns

Hi Andres,
This could be a very interesting project and I am seriously considering backing it. As soon as I have a more stable income I would absolutely love to give some support. 

Some concerns that I have seen circulate through many hobbyists here is the importance of conserving locale specific varieties of PDF’s. Since you mentioned the possibility of traveling to these different areas to showcase the incredible variety found in frogs, will the documentary also discuss the biology and evolution that has led to these isolated populations? And the important work that many in the hobby are doing to conserve the natural variety and protect it from hybrid “designer” frogs. 

I realize some of this topic may be beyond the scope of your original intent but I feel that this documentary has the potential to be an eye-opener to the general public and an entry way into the hobby. It would be fantastic if this film would direct people to the appropriate resources to learn about the proper care and husbandry of PDF’s and start any newcomers off on the right path. 

I hope many more people with more resources decide to support this important endeavor.


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## Axl

Hello WZDesigns,

These topics you are suggesting sound quite interesting from a hobbyist and biologist perspective. We wouldn't mind considering to become part or our documentary. Is there any particular scientific publication or information about this issue? Plase, PM me, I'll be glad to work on it.

The fundraising phase will last until November 12th. Hopelly, with everyone's help, we'll make it a reality


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## kblack3

Pledged! Good luck and have fun I hope it receives enough backers to fund. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Frogsarefun

If you have not seen this project you should.
Kickstarter fundraiser ends November 12th.

Hoping they reach their goal!


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## Axl

Thanks everyone! Last 2 days of campaign, 85% funded! Please consider backing this film and make it a reality: http://kck.st/2dd1Hqa

Remember that 100% of sales benefit will go to a PDF conservationist project.

Regards


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## Yazz

My pledge is in. Best of luck on the documentary!


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## Axl

The project was succesully funded! 

Please keep updated: https://www.facebook.com/PDFTheDocumentary/


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## Dcairelli

VEry cool idea. I'd watch


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## kblack3

Any updates?


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## davecalk

So what ever happened to the documentary? Was it ever completed?


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## Eletroverse

davecalk said:


> So what ever happened to the documentary? Was it ever completed?


I got an email last week

English: https://vimeo.com/316315678/754cb95325
Spanish: https://vimeo.com/317523209/4ea7421727

You can also watch it on youtube:


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