# Problem with lesser wax worms



## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I've been breeding lesser wax worms for about 6 months or so.They are easy to breed and the frogs absolutely love them.I make my media and I use ff cups and lids.They do very well this way.The issue I'm having with them is they are eating through the lids.They didn't do it the first couple of generations,but started doing it the last couple.Who else is working with them and what are you using for lids or containment?I really like the extra food source/treat,but it's starting to "bug" me that they have started to do this.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

Yup, I had the same problem, no matter how you keep them, when it's time for them to spin a cocoon, they have a strong desire to get out and go somewhere else. Try using that micron mesh or typar to cove the holes in your lid. I think I'm going to use glass mason jars with the micron mesh over a hole in the metal lid.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I used a solid lid that I cut a hole in, in the center. Then I covered that hole with metal mesh.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks guys,I tried using a coffee filter between the lid and the cup last night,so I'll see how that holds up.The filter makes it hard to close the lid though.It is thicker than the lid material so I hope it gets enough airflow and is thick enough to stop them from eating through although It just may be a deterrent.I don't know why they are just doing it the last couple of times and not when I first started with them.

Can the small ones get through the mesh?It would be nice if the coffee filters work because it would give me a use for the lids that get spent after washing them takes its toll.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If they can chew through ff lid filter, I bet they can chew through coffee filter 

With my metal mesh covered hole, it was still a pain because they would cocoon right on top of the mess and clog it up. Then I'd have to scrape them off to clear the ventilation. Stupid worms 

I also tried a large mason jar with metal mesh cut to fit inside the rim. That worked well. I didn't have anything crawl through the mesh, that I noticed. I do have some fat spiders, though.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

frogface said:


> If they can chew through ff lid filter, I bet they can chew through coffee filter
> 
> With my metal mesh covered hole, it was still a pain because they would cocoon right on top of the mess and clog it up. Then I'd have to scrape them off to clear the ventilation. Stupid worms
> 
> I also tried a large mason jar with metal mesh cut to fit inside the rim. That worked well. I didn't have anything crawl through the mesh, that I noticed. I do have some fat spiders, though.



Yeah I was thinking that too.

What kind of mesh do you use Kris?Is it a no see um type?I think metal may be too thick to do it the way I want to try.Maybe the fiberglass stuff may fit though.I guess an experiment will be in order.

An excuse for and experiment is always good.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Hmm, well I usually buy what looks like it is too small for ffs and is cheap. I had some metal that was not ff proof and some fiberglass that was ff proof. Now I don't recall which I used.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

I bet if they wanted to, they could chew right through a fruit fly cup.
So e got into my pantry (thank god I have a patient wife!!!) they chewed their way into un-opened bags of cereal, into bags of rice, of beans, into un-opened bags of chips. 

The worms metamorphosed, we had moths for like 2 months. And then the moths contributed a second generation.

The tiny tiny worms can crawl into anything!!!! Tupperware was no problem for them. 

Now all our food in the pantry is kept in glass jars with ratchet latches and rubber gaskets. My wife liked this anyways because it made our pantry super organized and we didn't like the idea of keeping food in plastic.

Now my waxworms are in glass mason jars with metal lids with just a small hole drilled in the lid and covered with tyvek.

One more thing about the whole experience... These things can infest and live off of anything! Although the ones in dry rice and beans stayed very very small and metamorphosed into tiny moths. This might actually be handy knowledge if someone purposely wants to stunt them.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Haha,I don't think I'll tell the wife about that story!Especially since I'm contemplating wax worms too.It's good to know about the stunted thing though.I thought they had to have honey or some sort of moisture?


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## phelsumaman (May 8, 2011)

Some interesting observations on this thread. I've never experienced lesser waxworms infesting anything other than the culture I keep them in despite plenty of escapee moths. Could you have Indian mealmoths instead. They are kept in a similar manner to waxworms but can and do manage without the honey element that the waxworms need. 

Both species of waxworms are pests of beehives and as such want a steady temp of about 28 centigrade, when temps rise above this they will tend to try to migrate to an area which is more suitable, they will eat through most things, cloth, plastic mesh etc but I've never had them eat through smooth plastic jars or stainless steel mesh which I've used for ventilation. 

It's probably also worth mentioning that when you see waxworms out of the culture and crawling up the sides of the culture it's either due to high temps or due to overcrowding, if you know your temps are ok them probably time it split the culture or add more culture medium. 

Regards
Ben


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

I have heard that the meal moths can get confused with lesser waxworms. 
They sure as heck look like a small waxworm and wax moth. I bought then from a popular cyber bug retailer as lesser waxworms. But who knows. They do survive without honey, but do much better with it.


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## BlackFrogExotics (Jan 9, 2014)

What is the media that's used with the honey. Im fixing to pick up some lesser wax worms myself. 

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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Chris I use baby rice cereal.You kind of work the honey into it with a fork until it becomes a moist crumble.Then add some media(about a tablespoon) and moths from the donor culture.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

am curious what frogs you feed with these worms...can someone post pictures, etc. of the whole process for us idiots??? and how you feed them out as well...


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## BlackFrogExotics (Jan 9, 2014)

oddlot said:


> Chris I use baby rice cereal.You kind of work the honey into it with a fork until it becomes a moist crumble.Then add some media(about a tablespoon) and moths from the donor culture.


Thanks Lou. I'll get all the media soon.

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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

What you want are the stainless steel filter mesh discs that match the diameter of your lid. I either glued them to my lid over the hole (doesn't work with all lids) or used mason/canning jars... they have a two piece lid and that outer screw on piece is perfect to hold down the discs and form a nice seal if you get the correct diameter. Don't have to worry about cutting it out or sharp edges.

I strongly believe at least some people may be culturing Indian Meal Moths instead of true Lesser Wax Moths. I've kept lessers for a few years in the past and even having them get out I never had them infest anything. I never let the meal moths in my living space after hearing about what they do when they get out... which is basically the pantry story mentioned before. It's also worth mentioning that I wouldn't put it past the meal moths getting into a waxy culture...

I'm lazy and used to get my media from Fly Meat back when they cultured them. I'd love to see listings of media as it hasn't been talked about for a long time (and older recipes I have seem kinda complex). Both moths fell out of the hobby for a while and only are starting to come back but... which moth is it?

The mainstay for feeding ended up actually being the moths and my Phyllobates bicolor. Hilarious to watch them chase it down! Also popular with some lizards and treefrogs. The young larvae could be put in a bowl and fed to just about anything depending on the size that you harvest them at. Leaving the moths in a jar for a few days then moving them to the next one can allow you a more controlled size to harvest.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

so who do you recommend as a reliable supplier for this food alternative...I would love to be able to feed them out...but sure do not want to get the wrong critters..


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Judy S said:


> so who do you recommend as a reliable supplier for this food alternative...I would love to be able to feed them out...but sure do not want to get the wrong critters..


I got mine from Jeremy Huff.

To answer your earlier post,they can be fed to just about any dart depending on what size worm you want to feed.They hatch out very small and get to a size of about a fat fluffy piece of long grain rice~.If I didn't wait too long and can salvage enough grubs/moths to make up some cultures,I'll take pics of the culturing process as you requested.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

How do you harvest the worms from the media?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Reef_Haven said:


> How do you harvest the worms from the media?


It's actually pretty easy.They don't move fast and they like to climb up the sides.What I do is use 12'' plastic feeder tongs and hand pick them.I know it sounds like a pain in the butt,but I do it that way so I can feed the size and amount to each frog.It's just as easy to pull them out of the media.I use the tongs kinda like a pair of chopsticks and just gently push the media and pick the size I want.You don't want to let them eat too much though or they will become fat little pudges.I'll post pics of the tongs and that process too.


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## BlackFrogExotics (Jan 9, 2014)

Hey lou can you post a pic of your culture please. 

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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Judy S said:


> am curious what frogs you feed with these worms...can someone post pictures, etc. of the whole process for us idiots??? and how you feed them out as well...





BlackFrogExotics said:


> Hey lou can you post a pic of your culture please.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R960 using Tapatalk


Ok,you guys asked for it,here you go.Here is a link to how I culture them.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/163058-culturing-lesser-wax-worms-made-easy.html


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

Reef_Haven said:


> How do you harvest the worms from the media?


The only way I know to harvest worms is by hand. You can harvest them from the side of the container, the wax paper in the container, and by shifting through the media.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

yeah,there is no real easy way.Like I stated in the thread I linked two posts ago,I hand pick them with plastic feeder tongs,but I'm working on a couple of ideas to make it easier.


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