# 20 Vert Planted pics added-12/3(on pg. 3)



## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

This will be my first attempt at a vert of any kind....so be gentle 

I just Great Stuffed the first layer today, but I plan on adding more layers when this dries. Just to be clear... I wait a week after I put the last layer of GS on to start siliconing and coco-ing, right? 
I don't know how I am going to silicone it behind and around the wood... :roll: ....Any tips?
I also would like to add a pond in the front right corner. I would make a barrier out of GS I guess. 

Here are some pics so far....
Full tank view: 








Top Half:








Bottom Half:









Advice and comments are definetly welcome!!


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

That wood looks great, I can't wait to see this once it's finished. 

As far as putting multiple layers of great stuff on.....most people I've talked to do it all at once. I've also never heard of letting the gs dry one week before siliconing etc. You should however, let the tank sit a couple days after appyling the silicone, or until you can no longer smell any silicone whatsoever. 

Behind and around the wood? I would just put some disposable rubber gloves on, put some silicone on the great stuff, and spread it wherever you want with the gloves. Some silicone can go on the wood if it comes to this. 

As far as the pond goes, I imagine you could do your gs idea. In my pum viv, the pond is just a tupperware with one side sliced off and siliconed to the glass, then I siliconed the inside and attached peat moss to it. It just makes it easier IMO, since there is less maintnence. 

Good luck, and it looks great so far.


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

First off you have a GREAT peice of wood. :lol: A week maybe a little much, i think a couple days should be fine. Siliconing with the would will be difficult but doable. Silicone in little sections the silicone firms up pretty quick, and stick on as much coco as possible. Then spray it down after is dries to get excess off. I didnt use great stuff to make my pond. I just cut of some of the false bottom and had the screen run down the the floor. Than I added enough gravel to froggy proof it, and put some moss on the pond's edge. You are off to a great start. Good Luck  

Oh what do you plan of puttingin there? There are alot of options with a 20.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

The reason you put GS on in layers and NOT all at once is b/c if the layer is too thick the stuff underneath will not dry completely. It turns in to a big mess later. Trust me on that one.

Nice work however. I look forward to seeing its progress.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks!

Yeah I really like that piece of wood on the bottom....I actually found in my friend's back yard! Rest assured! I baked it and stuff so it is sterile.
It just seemed to me that the wood fit together perfectly, so I went with it.
My original intention for that wood was to be like a trunk with roots sticking out, but it looked to squeezed in there that way and I didn't have another, bigger tank, so I did this! And I'm glad I did!

I don't know, I still am thinking about what to do with the pond....  

I didn't really have any specific frogs in mind...maybe some tricolor or some imitator... any frog suggestions? ....I am a beginner with thumbs so I am thinking of something fairly easy...


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

Some leucs would be cool. I guess I am not a big fan of thumbs (except amazonicus). 3 galacts would LOVE that tank.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Chris
Looks great.

Not sure you even need anymore GS unless you are looking for more front to back depth/hill/shelves.

I personally do wait a week....sometimes that stuff really shrinks on you...sometimes not. Why rush it anyhow.

Do the silicone in sections. And instead of just coco you might consider something 'thicker' like the various Jungle Mix products or a mix your own with orchid fir bark/peat/cypress fibers ect...

Gloves and patience is what is needed to get behind the wood. What I usually do is fill it in with GS and cover it afterwards, rather than try and get my hands behind the wood in all those nooks.

S


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Okay, FINALLY got some new pics up....I siliconed it yesterday, but I have to redo some places I missed.

I plan on getting a door made this weekend (five day weekend! woo hoo!!....*cough* 8) sorry bout that) 
Is there an advantage to having a screen at the top? If I make a screen the door will be really short...

Anyway...here are the pics:


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

> but I have to redo some places I missed.


Yeh, that happens to me everytime, no matter how much silicone I smear on and how much coco bedding I press in there's always a spot or two that needs re-done.  

Look'n good!


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks!

I patched up the spots I missed the first time around and I ordered a screen for the upper part... I need to order some glass sometime too....*Would 1/4 inch glass be good for a door/dam?*

I really want to get moving on this thing but I need to get that glass....  

I am kinda leaning towards some GL or Panguana Lamasi for this...Are they good beginning-thumbnail frogs?? Also....How many do you think would fit in a 20H vert???...androll...... What would be a good ratio??? 3.1, 2.2, 1.1, 1.3, 2.1........??? :wink: 

Thanks!!!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Taken from the stickies...

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13407


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Ohhh...I see...

But just to clear things up, What makes them so advanced? Breeding? Care? They're cost? just would like know  

Thanks!


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Pangs and GL's aren't, it's the standard lamasi that are advanced. Both you mentioned are good beginners in terms of care and breeding, now, if you don't mind not seeing your frogs then I guess they should work fine.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

sbreland said:


> Pangs and GL's aren't, it's the standard lamasi that are advanced. Both you mentioned are good beginners in terms of care and breeding, now, if you don't mind *not seeing your frogs* then I guess they should work fine.


In my experience, this is why these frogs make horrible beginners. When beginners don't see thier frogs, they tend to go digging in the viv looking for them. This only adds stress to the frogs. Frogs that are constantly out and about will keep a beginner's hands out of the viv. Some are also just more sensitive to envirnment changes or moves and sometimes require the experience of someone who's kept PDFs a bit longer. This is just what I've seen and even done my self when I first started keeping darts.

If I were you, I'd get vents or imis. They are perfect. You'll never see those lamasi.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Alright now I see why you don't see lamasi a lot....thanks for clearing that up! :wink: 

I'll probably go with imi's, but thats not something you decide over night... especially if the tooth fairy doesn't come to leave any money under your pillow, if you know what I mean... :lol: 

I'll try and get some pics up when I get the glass ordered....


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Chris,

Great looking start, with fantastic wood! I look forward to your next pics!

Don't forget that intermedius are a type of imi. IME they are very bold and they show up well against the green. Also, their varied patterns make it easier to distinguish individuals...

I hit upon a simple pond idea that's working well for me so far. I found a nice piece of artificial wood (a plastic aquarium decoration) that was more or less u-shaped, so that when put in the corner of a tank it would reach from one side of the tank to the adjacent side. I siliconed it to the bottom and added the LECA layer, etc., behind it. The fake wood piece was irregular enough on the bottom to allow water to flow under it from the LECA layer. Here's a pic of a Man Creek pumilio sitting in the pond chasing springtails:










(I don't keep the water very deep, since the pond was mainly added in order to have a place to siphon excess water from. It could be filled as high as the lowest part of the wood side, though...)

There are some pics in this thread that might show the assembly process a bit better...or not!:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... hlight=viv

Of course, this only works if you find the right piece of "wood"--if you do, it's sure simple to use...Khamul1of9 has also used large rocks siliconed to the bottom of his vivs to define water areas and serve to hold back substrate...


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Wow!!! How could I have missed that thread?? :shock: ...........Great viv! Without a background, the wood is more defined-which I like a lot. 

As for the pond....I don't know if I could find a piece of artificial wood small enough to fit in mine. I really like that idea though! It looks awesome! I'll keep my eye out for something.

Yeah I like intermedius too....but I am not going to decide right now. I'll wait till the viv is done first.

Thanks for the comments...I do really like the wood configuration. I already have a special orchid in mind for it...


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Yeah, you'd have to find something proportionate to the bottom area of your tank, which isn't that easy for verts...Cesar's rock technique also ends up looking really nice, though...

Thanks for your compliments!

Oooh, another plant person! Can't wait to see that orchid. 

BTW, with a lot of plants and wood, I think you could keep 4 or even 5 of most thumbs in there...if you add them all at once, etc. But a duo or trio will also fill it up nicely if you get a bold species. Bigger groups are often split up as froglets mature and rivalries/pairs appear. But there're a lot of different experiences amongst hobbyists concerning success with various stocking levels.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

The orchid:

















I have no idea what it is called....but on the tag it says: Phal. Golden Buddah....and below that it sayshal. Big Cheeks... :? 

Well, I got the screen, a hinge and some latches. I was going to get some 3/16" glass but one place said they didn't have it :x Sooo, I went to another place and they were closed :evil: ......I recon that puts off planting and stuff to about Wednesday :evil: :evil: Oh well.


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

Not sure where you live, but around here 3/16-inch glass is impossible to find. Everyone seems to have 1/8-inch (double strength) and 1/4-inch though.

Good Luck!


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Ah, a nice Phalaenopsis hybrid. You will find mixed opinions as to whether or not phals are good viv candidates. I've seen one do well in my son's pum viv. I suppose it depends on the phal itself and the viv conditions (such as air flow--though my son's tank has essentially no air flow!). For more on the discussion of phals in vivs (and some pics) see page 5 of this thread:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16344

Don't you hate delays?


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Good thing I got a screen made then... for air flow. I hope the orchid does ok. It would make a great place to lay eggs for a thumbnail.

Dartman: 
My original intention was to get 1/8" double strength, but I looked at a glass place and they said it was $35 for the glass!! Is that too much or am I just over exagerating? :shock: 

I will have to ask the pet store where they got the 3/16" glass cuz thats what they use on their fish tanks.


And yes, I do hate delays. :x


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2006)

Diane, thanks for mentioning me so much. I feel so famous   :lol:  
By the way, that Man Creek looks gorgeous!!!!! :drool:

Anoleo2, how are you going to put the Phalaenopsis in? The only way I see that a Phal can survive vivarium condtions is 
1)its mounted in a vertical position, that is with the leaves pointing up and down rather than sideways. This is so the water never accumulates in the leaves.
I got the impression that you wanted to have this plant hold water for eggs, or will the eggs simply be attached to the leaves and then transported to a pool of water like in a brom????
2)you have enough air flow that the plants leaves and roots will dry out between waterings/mistings.
And are you sure this Phal is not too big for your tank? I would be afraid to put it in my 55 gallon tank. 
But hey, let me know how it works out!


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Hmm. You have some good points there... Since I know nothing about orchids...Thanks!  

Well I was going to attach it to a branch that sticks out near the front and I wasn't planning on having water on it constantly... I was just saying that it would be a good spot to lay eggs, if eggs happened :wink: But now I might see if it could be mounted vertically. I also checked and it does fit in the tank... I don't know, I guess we'll see when the tank is ready wether it does well or just dies! (hopefully not the latter :shock: )

Thanks!


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2006)

Well I can't wait to see it! I have two Phalaenopsis in my orchidarium (A 20 gallond long turned into a vertical), which I use to house my green tree frog. They are P. Mini Mark 'Holm" and P. javanica. Both are miniature Phalaenopsis, and easy to fit inside. I also have a P. lobbii in my 55 gallon tank, but again the whole orchid is a miniature mounted on a piece of wood that in no bigger than the size of a remote control.


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Well this might have been mentioned already (I skimmed a few posts). Another reason to do the GS in layers is because it is possible to blow out the glass when it expands. I usually do not do the corners on the first layer to prevent stress on the seems.

BTW, Really nice wood. I'd also like to 2nd,3rd,4th and 5th the suggestion on not getting GL or panguana lamasi. I have a 1.1 pair in a heavily planted exo terra that I only catch glimpses of once ever couple of months. Some times as long as 5 or 6 months go by w/o seeing them. Funny thing is that I only see the male(?) and never the female and even then I ususally see only see him late at night around 12-2 am. Wierd.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> My original intention was to get 1/8" double strength, but I looked at a glass place and they said it was $35 for the glass!! Is that too much or am I just over exagerating? Shocked


That is really steep IMO. I was able to glass my six plywood tanks for double that price. That's six pieces of 14.25" x 14.5" 3/16" single strength (which is nominally .25" - don't ask me why) and six pieces of 14.5" x 14" 1/8" single strength. I'd be looking for another glass shop if I were you.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Oops... I meant to type tempered 1/8" glass...not double strength....or is it the same?? :? 
The price for *TEMPERED* 1/8" glass was $35, I don't know what the price of the double strength 1/8" glass is. I will have to check next time...

Thanks again for all the comments!!

I now, (after getting so many posts about why I shouldn't get lamasi as a first thumbnail  ) am trying to decide between vents or imi's. They both are beautiful frogs...they both are not really that expensive (knock on wood :shock: )...they both are pretty bold...and they both get along well in groups.....


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Suggestion--keep both in mind, and when you're ready to buy, go for the first species that is available at the age, quantity, and price that you like...


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Ok, I thought it over and...*drumroll please*....  I'm gonna go with imi's as my first thumbnail. I decided on imi's because I just listened to they're call on another site and it was awesome, and becuase they are extraordinarily beautiful and colorful. They are also bold and hardy...which are major winners in my book :wink: 

Ordered the glass today, but with my luck he'll probably crack it or something and in turn delay this project another two days :|


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Some pics of the tank with the door and screen on (these were just before I siliconed the dam on...








And just the door...









I'm itching to plant, but I don't know if I should plant tomorrow or if I should wait until I get back from my vacation.... :? I just don't want anything to start to die and I won't be there to help it live....

But man am I glad that is over


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

You're moving right along! It looks great so far! If you have a light timer, you could go ahead & plant...otherwise, you might want to wait...


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Ok, after about a month of working on this tank it's finally done!! ( well I may add some more plants sometime...so not completely  ) sorry for the bad pics...


















and the bottom half:









I am happy with the way it turned out (for a first vert that is) although it seems a little empty in some places...

I didn't use the phal becuase I didn't want to risk it dying and I didn't really have much room left.

For frogs....I'm thinking imi's... 8) 

Plant list:
Watermelon Vine
_Ficus Radicans_
unknown Begonia cutting
unknown ferns
2 unknown broms
1 _Neorgelia_ "Tiger Club"
unknown moss
and you probably can't see it but there's some peperomia in there too


unfortunatly the door is screwed up so I got to fix that before anything goes in there... :roll: 


Enjoy!!!


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Looking good, what's wrong with the door?


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks! 

The problem with the door is that it pops out when I try to close it and that leaves a big gap in the top...I guess it's just not tight enough


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Ahh, that's what I am trying to figure out what to do about, before I have even really started my viv. I think a good way to fix it would be to cut a small piece of plexi and silicon it to the glass where the latches are, to add thickness.


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## c'est ma (Sep 11, 2004)

Hey, Chris, that looks super! I really like the way those branches with broms jut out and use the "air space." Nice job!

PS: No viv is ever "finished."


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2006)

I had a problem with the door to my second 20 long vertical. The fitting depended completely on how well I siliconed the hinges. If they weren't completely straight, the door was too loose, or too tight, and on top of that, the hinge would eventually get ripped off the glass. If the hinges aren't straight, everything goes wrong.
What type of hinges did you use? Maybe thats not the problem with yours?


Edit** 
I see you used a long hinge, I don't think you can screw that up.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks for the comments!!

Yeah the problem with the door I guess was that it doesn't fit tight enough with the sides of the tank so if I put something there it should be fine....(Knock on wood :shock: )

You can probably tell but I rested the broms on the branches that were sticking out and then put some of those huge suction cups underneath so they could rest on them...I hope it works and everything thrives! (especially the moss :wink: )


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## Agrippa (Jul 4, 2006)

What type of lighting are you using? I'm in the process of building a 20h vert too, and I'm interested in the different options people have used. Your tank, by the way, looks great.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Wow I didn't expect anyone to post in this thread since it's been dead for so long....Thanks. I actually added and took away some things...The 'tiger cub' I had to take out  -stem rot unfortunatly.

I use a GE Daylight 75. The box says its light output is 1150 lumens, its energy used is 20 watts and its life is (supposively) 8000 hrs.

I'll post some more pics later I guess...


I need to get started on my next project-a 33" Oceanic cube 8) ...turns out I did get something from the Petco sale after all


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Well here is the renewed tank...still empty up in back though...

















and the lower right corner:









enjoy!


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

I have one quick question: 

Would a tank of this size (20 high vert) be suitable for four imi's? Or only a trio or pair?


BTW I added some creeping fig up in the back of the tank, so hopefully that should do well...


Greatly appreciated!!


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## Paul E. Wog (Jan 2, 2005)

Anoleo2 said:


> I have one quick question:
> Would a tank of this size (20 high vert) be suitable for four imi's? Or only a trio or pair?


I think it would be okay. I know some people do it, I would watch em though. No experience with imis myself however.


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## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Looking good Chris. I currently have my four young imis all in a 10 vert. I plan to split them up soon as I can though.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks guys!

I think a trio would be best for me... I'll wait for the creeping fig to fill up the back more before I get anything though.


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