# tads dying



## jharris08 (Dec 26, 2011)

so im on my 5th clutch of azureus eggs...for the last 2 clutches everything has been looking fine until about day 10 when the tads start to form but are still attatched to the egg sac part...and then they are dying before they actually hatch out of the egg.
is it still just early for success since its only 5th clutch or could I be doing something wrong? Ive got the lid w/ eggs inside a plastic container, resting on top of damp moss to keep the humidity up, and have just enough water to touch the egg mass on the deli cup lid that the eggs are laid on.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I do not have azureus, but usually if frogs are young and they are in the early reproductions this can happen. If the tadpoles are ready to be transported, you can help them to come out of the egg sac with the tip of a needle.


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## Tincman (Jan 18, 2013)

How are youre other frogs egg/Tad mortality rates under the same supplement regimen? If theyre all producing viable offspring regularly I wouldnt worry about it as the eggs may start to get better soon, but if they dont get better & you dont have a lot of good production from other frogs maybe consider the Supplements freshness.. Vitamin A deficiency can lead to low mortality rates also, you could try using some supps with actual Vit A or even Rpashys A plus twice a month to see if that perks things up.. Again Im sorry if this is all redundant & already part of your husbandry, just throwing things out there without knowing your routine... Hope something helps at least & good luck.. PM me if youd like to chat as I have experienced similar issues with some of my ranitomeya... 
Regards, Idris


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## jharris08 (Dec 26, 2011)

this is first pair that started laying for me...also have a patricia pair that have started just a couple weeks ago...i did supplement all my frogs with vit A about 3 weeks ago and have always done repashy calcium plus for the the 2 years Ive kept darts....im hoping its just b/c they are still early in breeding process..they are both around 18-20 months o.o.w


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

If they are making it that far in the development stage, I highly doubt it's the fault of the parents. Sounds to me like a husbandry issue.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

I concur with the idea of a husbandry problem. What do you feed, and how often? How old are your supplements? Have you considered leaving the eggs in their enclosure and let the parents care for them? As much info on how you keep and do things will help us help you. 

By day 10 they should be ready to hatch, soon. It should start to look like a tad by day 5.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That sounds like classic vitamin A deficiency. You did say that you are using Repashy Calcium Plus, so that is odd. 
How long have the frogs in question, been on a diet of Calcium Plus?
How fresh are your supplements? 
Do you keep them in the fridge? (cool and dark, fridge/not frozen)
What is your feeding schedule/how often are they supplemented
Are you rotating in other supplements, which can effectively "dilute" the amount of usable vitamin A they are receiving?

Let me see if I can find a link or two on "egg failure" and vitamin A deficiency....ok, slow start, but I've got a nice collection of reading for you. As a purely lucky coincidence, at least a couple of these threads are dealing specifically with Azureus.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/159410-help-bad-moldy-eggs.html
Here is one on poor eyesight, which is also a vitamin A deficiency, but the thread does discus the egg failure I was having with my Tarapoto. It discusses clearing the problem up with Repashy Vitamin A Plus.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/78983-azureus-poor-sight.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/81273-3-months-bad-tinc-eggs.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/81184-bad-eggs.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/78022-die-before-birth-help.html


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## jharris08 (Dec 26, 2011)

doug,
ive been using calcium plus since day 1...usually supplement 2-3 times/ week..but I only have used Vit A once since they started laying...didnt want to risk any kidney problems so I was just gonna do once/month on that....so im taking it I should use Vit A more frequently?
and yes my calcium plus is in the fridge and I replace every 6 months.
I usually leave the eggs in with parents for 2 or 3 days before removing, and I was told by a friend who has had frogs a lot longer than myself that 10 days is normal hatch time, so my tads are def. taking longer than normal to develop.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

What is the temperature where you keep the developing eggs? Are you certain they are dying? Fresh tads are very good at convincing they are dead. I've even had fresh tads lay upside down, motionless, on the bottom of their cup for a day or two. Are they still curled in the egg when this happens?


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## jharris08 (Dec 26, 2011)

temp is usually b/w 70-73..stays pretty constant b/c its in a basement..and yes the tads are still enclosed curled up in the egg and then its like the eggs turn white and dissolve


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

jharris08 said:


> doug,
> ive been using calcium plus since day 1...usually supplement 2-3 times/ week..but *I only have used Vit A once since they started laying*...didnt want to risk any kidney problems so I was just gonna do once/month on that....so im taking it I should use Vit A more frequently?


I think the bold font tells where the problem may be. I believe vitamin A is important before the eggs are being laid. Keep using it once or twice a month and your next clutch should be much better.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

jharris08 said:


> temp is usually b/w 70-73..stays pretty constant b/c its in a basement..and yes the tads are still enclosed curled up in the egg and then its like the eggs turn white and dissolve


70-73 is a little cool. 78 is recommended and will help the tads fight infection


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

All good advise here. A couple more threads to drive the point home.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/82055-whats-wrong-these-tads-eggs.html#post726511
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/92560-my-first-benedicta-eggs-now-i-have-question.html


These threads indicate the pronephros (kidneys) fails to develop and the tads die before hatching.


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## jharris08 (Dec 26, 2011)

update for all who commented... I just now got some azureus eggs that look like they are developing nicely, plus I have some patricia eggs as well. I started doing the VitA every 2 weeks for all my frogs, so after 3 months it looks like it is finally starting to take effect. thanks for the help!


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