# How damp is too damp for substrate?



## bsantucci (Nov 17, 2014)

Hi all,

I've had my tank set up for about a year and a half for my Azureus pair. I was hand misting in the beginning, but I think I kept the tank on the dry side then and plants kept dying. Frogs are great though and always had a water basin.

I started diving deeper into making my tank nicer, bought a Mist King system and installed two Current Satellite + Pro's on the tank and also put glass tops over the screen to increase humidity. Tank is an Exo 18x18x18.

My question though is how damp is too damp for the substrate? My plants are all doing great, EXCEPT my sheet moss I put down in the front. It's been in there for about 2 months now, and BARELY has any new growth. Maybe a new tip here and there. My Mist King runs 10 seconds at 9:30am and 10 seconds again at 9pm. In between all my plants dry off, no standing water on the leaves. The walls of the tank still show condensation throughout the day. When I lift part of the moss, the substrate is definitely damp, but I wouldn't call it soaked. I have no standing water in the false bottom so I don't think I'm oversoaking, but I could be wrong? Is my moss just bad maybe and I should start over? Photo of my tank below.

Thanks!


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Think soggy. There's a big difference between being humid and being stagnant. If you have good air circulation, leaves and glass should dry off between mistings, IMO. You would know if the soil was soggy...it would start to stink. If you open your tank and it just smells like dirt or like the outdoors you're proably ok. If you smell funk then something is wrong.


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## bsantucci (Nov 17, 2014)

BlueRidge said:


> Think soggy. There's a big difference between being humid and being stagnant. If you have good air circulation, leaves and glass should dry off between mistings, IMO. You would know if the soil was soggy...it would start to stink. If you open your tank and it just smells like dirt or like the outdoors you're proably ok. If you smell funk then something is wrong.


Thanks for the reply. It's definitely soggy. I have the glass tops from NE Herp which leave about the front 2 inches of the screen open. Do you think I need a fan inside the tank then? The glass definitely does not dry.

I wouldn't say the tank stinks, but since I added the moss, it definitely has a different smell than just the outdoorsy smell. By stink I'm guesing you mean bacterial or mildew stink? I don't have that, but I do have a bit more smell than before the moss.


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## Blueper (Feb 27, 2016)

Does your tank have a drain?


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

If it drips when you squeeze a handful of substrate, it's too wet.

If plants are doing well, the tank dries up between mistings, and there is no water in the false bottom, I think you may be overthinking this.


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## bsantucci (Nov 17, 2014)

Blueper said:


> Does your tank have a drain?


No drain, but an area to put a baster to pull water out. Nothing builds up though in the false bottom



JPccusa said:


> If it drips when you squeeze a handful of substrate, it's too wet.


No dripping, so I guess I'm good. Maybe I just need the internal fan.


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## Eloquentidiot (Feb 28, 2013)

I like fans but more for plants which don't tolerate water on their leaves than for substrate moisture. I have found that orchids and sensitive begonias etc. seem to prefer better air circulation but based on the pic in this post I think you're OK so long as the tank doesn't smell stagnant. A fan might help to keep the glass clear for viewing purposes, however. That's the other reason I would recommend them for any 'display' vivarium.

- Paul


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## bsantucci (Nov 17, 2014)

Eloquentidiot said:


> I like fans but more for plants which don't tolerate water on their leaves than for substrate moisture. I have found that orchids and sensitive begonias etc. seem to prefer better air circulation but based on the pic in this post I think you're OK so long as the tank doesn't smell stagnant. A fan might help to keep the glass clear for viewing purposes, however. That's the other reason I would recommend them for any 'display' vivarium.
> 
> - Paul


Ah very interesting and good info. I may pull the moss I have in there and try again with a different type. Since I added the moss I do have a bit of a smell that wasn't there before. It's not terrrible, we're not talking anything pungent, but it may be a bit of a stagnant smell. Tough to tell, first viv I've done so I'm not sure what it should smell like, but it is different than before. No mold or mildew issues though which I would think would be apparent if I had too much moisture.

What types of mosses or ground cover plants would work best? This sheet moss looked great for a few days then browned out and hasn't bounced back...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Was it dry sheet moss or live sheet moss? If so that's why. Dry sheet moss is hard to bring back to life it's better to get live moss NEHERP sells live moss. 
On the parts where there is leaf litter I would ditch the moss and just have leaf litter. Like in my Paludarium I have straight leaf litter all the way over until a couple inches before the water feature. I out like 3 leaves on the moss to give it charater.


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## mark c (Jun 17, 2010)

Sheet moss over substrate seems just wrong! The substrate should just have leaf litter over it only. This allows the substrate to breath and grow microfauna which is required for a healthy vivarium. It will encourage plant growth. 

Your moss may not be a total loss. Put bits of it on the background (pin it with florist wire), or on top of horizontally lying cork logs (my favorite). You could even put it on manzanita branches, etc. Shove bits of it in the cracks of that background!

Mark


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## bsantucci (Nov 17, 2014)

mark c said:


> Sheet moss over substrate seems just wrong! The substrate should just have leaf litter over it only. This allows the substrate to breath and grow microfauna which is required for a healthy vivarium. It will encourage plant growth.
> 
> Your moss may not be a total loss. Put bits of it on the background (pin it with florist wire), or on top of horizontally lying cork logs (my favorite). You could even put it on manzanita branches, etc. Shove bits of it in the cracks of that background!
> 
> Mark


Cool good idea I'll give it a shot. It's not doing anything where it is now anyway. Hopefully it will grow up there. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

Your fern is growing, your moss is growing slowly or at least a little, your other plants look fine, and your false bottom isn't filling up with water so I would say you are just fine. I think you're doing it right.


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