# hawaiian D. auratus



## Ira (Jan 17, 2007)

I am just curious, but are these frogs still in the hobby at all? When i first started following dart frogs (about 10 years ago) they were very common and more often than not, one of the least expensive dart frogs in the hobby back then. In the past few years i havnt notice any of this morph for sale at all. Did this auratus morph undergo 'hobby extinction' due to lack of interest?


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## TheDoc (Aug 8, 2007)

There deffinately still around, i just purchased 2 from a local vendor a few weeks ago to add to my existing 2.

Hopefully i can get some breeding going down the line.

From what i have heard they are no longer alowed off the island so that may be why there not as abundant.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

The Hawaiian auratus were introduced from Taboga, Panama about 60 years ago. They are green and black auratus, and not long ago, were considered to be an introduced species that competed with native frogs, and there were discussions about how to eliminate them. Now they are considered a "Hawaiian morph" and can't be exported? This doesn't make any sense at all. Someone please enlighten me.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

slaytonp said:


> The Hawaiian auratus were introduced from Taboga, Panama about 60 years ago. They are green and black auratus, and not long ago, were considered to be an introduced species that competed with native frogs, and there were discussions about how to eliminate them. Now they are considered a "Hawaiian morph" and can't be exported? This doesn't make any sense at all. Someone please enlighten me.


Hawaii has native frogs? I thought the islands were pretty much devoid of animals except the occasional mammal and birds...


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

slaytonp said:


> The Hawaiian auratus were introduced from Taboga, Panama about 60 years ago. They are green and black auratus, and not long ago, were considered to be an introduced species that competed with native frogs, and there were discussions about how to eliminate them. Now they are considered a "Hawaiian morph" and can't be exported? This doesn't make any sense at all. Someone please enlighten me.


From what I hear (not official news by any means), they don't want people collecting and trucking around exotic species to try and prevent them from spreading further. I believe the residents are still allowed to harvest exotics, but not transport them around.


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## Cory (Jan 18, 2005)

You are allowed to collect up to four specimens using an injurious species permit. It's fairly easy to get the permit just call the wildlife/forestry department on big island. I went looking for them on Maui in the Iao valley but had no luck and the people I talked to there said they hadn't seen them in a long time. The Big Island is apparently where there are still large concentrations. The reason for the four frog limit is to prevent wholesalers from taking al of them at once. They are considered the same thing as some foreign lizards that have invaded the islands. Anyways good luck hunting. Oh, and your not allowed to transport them on the airlines. So when applying for the permit say you are going to ship them.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Out of curiosity, has anyone looked to see if those populations are toxic?


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## Marek (Aug 14, 2007)

MonarchzMan said:


> Out of curiosity, has anyone looked to see if those populations are toxic?


I'd be interested to know the answer to this as well. I never knew you could collect them and bring them home (granted that they're shipped) I'll have to remember when I go there this summer


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Hawaiian auratus are still around.. not much demand for them though, as far as their toxicity.. there was a gentleman contact I had in Hawaii his full name eludes me but last name was Perriera or something like that... he was researching if these frogs had the toxicity levels of their cousins in Central and South America.. he did get some minor traces of toxins but was researching to see if it were an exact match to the skin toxins of native auratus.. I never got to meet up with him again and then he graduated college and I never heard from him again.. he did send me some copies of his studies and notes. I did go to the Hawaiian islands and found them quite numerous in 1991 even around or I should say especially around the local dumpsites... plenty of flies and bugs.. even saw tads in old tires, rusty cans.. also met up with some large Jackson's chameleons... which I believe are a pest on the islands as well.. Peter


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Peter Keane said:


> Hawaiian auratus are still around.. not much demand for them though, as far as their toxicity.. there was a gentleman contact I had in Hawaii his full name eludes me but last name was Perriera or something like that... he was researching if these frogs had the toxicity levels of their cousins in Central and South America.. he did get some minor traces of toxins but was researching to see if it were an exact match to the skin toxins of native auratus.. I never got to meet up with him again and then he graduated college and I never heard from him again.. he did send me some copies of his studies and notes. I did go to the Hawaiian islands and found them quite numerous in 1991 even around or I should say especially around the local dumpsites... plenty of flies and bugs.. even saw tads in old tires, rusty cans.. also met up with some large Jackson's chameleons... which I believe are a pest on the islands as well.. Peter


Daly, JW, Secunda, SI, Garraffo, HM, Spande, TF, Wisnieski, A, Nishihira, C, Cover, JF Jr.(1992) Variability in Alkaloid Profiles in Neotropical Poison Frogs (Dendrobatidae): Genetic Versus Environmental Determinants. Toxicon, 30:8, 887-898.

and 

http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers_2000/carr.html


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## Ben_C (Jun 25, 2004)

> I am just curious, but are these frogs still in the hobby at all?


Yes, they are definitely in the hobby. In fact, what people call the 'reticulated' auratus are usually descended from a hawaiian auratus.



> From what i have heard they are no longer alowed off the island so that may be why there not as abundant.


This is true. Hawaii DLNR is scared of them getting introduced on other islands so they banned export.



> The Hawaiian auratus were introduced from Taboga, Panama about 60 years ago. They are green and black auratus, and not long ago, were considered to be an introduced species that competed with native frogs, and there were discussions about how to eliminate them.


They were introduced in 1932 as a biocontrol for mosquitoes and are considered invasive.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I wonder then, why they can't be captured and exported to the mainland dart frog hobby, where they couldn't be a nuisance, because even escapees wouldn't survive? It could be a profitable thing for Hawaii, while diminishing an unwanted introduced species that aren't even doing the job they were originally introduced to do.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

slaytonp said:


> I wonder then, why they can't be captured and exported to the mainland dart frog hobby, where they couldn't be a nuisance, because even escapees wouldn't survive? It could be a profitable thing for Hawaii, while diminishing an unwanted introduced species that aren't even doing the job they were originally introduced to do.


You'd probably have to be licensed to remove them to keep the DNR comfortable enough that they won't accidentally colonize another island. Ideally, it'd be the DNR collecting them and then letting the hobbyists take them. But I doubt there's money for that.


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## Reptilian (Oct 22, 2006)

Could the auratus(or any dart frog) form a population in south florida? Everything else has already


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

slaytonp said:


> I wonder then, why they can't be captured and exported to the mainland dart frog hobby, where they couldn't be a nuisance, because even escapees wouldn't survive? It could be a profitable thing for Hawaii, while diminishing an unwanted introduced species that aren't even doing the job they were originally introduced to do.


From what I understand, this was the reasoning under which they were originally allowing the collection and export of chameleons and the frogs until some enterprising people started releasing the chameleons into new areas to increase the populations and make collection easier.... hence the change in the rules and the requirement for permits. See http://www.animalark.mn.org/beinggreen.html 

Ed


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Ed said:


> From what I understand, this was the reasoning under which they were originally allowing the collection and export of chameleons and the frogs until some enterprising people started releasing the chameleons into new areas to increase the populations and make collection easier.... hence the change in the rules and the requirement for permits. See http://www.animalark.mn.org/beinggreen.html
> 
> Ed


Ahha! I remain so naive. After all these years of learning better, I still tend to forget the human greed factor. Keep shoveling.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Patty,

I was surprised at the original change to the rules as well when it occured (I still worked part time in the pet trade at that time) but when I read what was occuring the greed thing ticked me off a little (at that time, there were ads in the back of some of the herp magazines and you could one of the collectors and they would overnight you chameleons etc.. 

I haven't given up shoveling yet. 

Ed


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Wow, that was quick response.. from bbrock.. Thank you for bringing the works of Chas Nishihara, Jack Cover and Anthony Wisnieski.. et al on the toxicity of Hawaiian auratus.. did not know these papers existed.. Peter Keane, Curator of Reptiles and Amphibians, JungleWorld


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

my brother lives down there and everytime i come down i go out and catch a few just for fun and then release them, but theri is a law that as long as you don't keep more than 4 then a permit is not required, same thing goes fro the Jackson's chameleons.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Peter often searching the herplit database at http://www.herplit.com can pull up good references. 

Ed


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Thanks to you also Ed.. these are very helpful sites for us all.. Peter


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