# How to train your frog



## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

Does anyone here tried Command, Click, Reward Training with frogs?

I've seen this video of tincs being trained to climb a pot, that could be switched to a scale if they need weighting the frog, so I got curious

I know it is possible for fish to learn tricks, like following pointers, hi-five, passing hoops and all, so I'd like to hear you guys experiences!


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Ruiqlav said:


> Does anyone here tried Command, Click, Reward Training with frogs?
> 
> I've seen this video of tincs being trained to climb a pot, that could be switched to a scale if they need weighting the frog, so I got curious
> 
> I know it is possible for fish to learn tricks, like following pointers, hi-five, passing hoops and all, so I'd like to hear you guys experiences!


This would be hilarious!

I honestly doubt you can train a frog. Not only would it might put them in stress, it wouldn’t work. I’ve never seen anyone train a frog before! However, my family thinks they can train my crestie. I wouldn’t put a penny on it but maybe it could happen...


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## geginn64 (Jun 24, 2020)

Not only did Ivan Pavlov have a dog. He also had a frog.  
Never heard of this, but I think there is the possibility that frogs may get accustomed to the same motions of feeding each day?









Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

GEG64 said:


> Not only did Ivan Pavlov have a dog. He also had a frog.
> Never heard of this, but I think there is the possibility that frogs may get accustomed to the same motions of feeding each day?
> 
> 
> ...





FroggerFrog said:


> This would be hilarious!
> 
> I honestly doubt you can train a frog. Not only would it might put them in stress, it wouldn’t work. I’ve never seen anyone train a frog before! However, my family thinks they can train my crestie. I wouldn’t put a penny on it but maybe it could happen...


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

I posted in some Facebook groups other people said they have seen PDF trained with clickers in Zoos

I've seen people training cichlids to answer questions about colors and shapes already I think it's just a matter of method... I wish someone already tried


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Interesting...

Once again, I wonder if the frogs were stressed though. I think they may have been at first but they slowly come out of their shell.

I think when people think of dart frogs as pets, they think they can be trained. Yes, in a way but I doubt they would be able to learn how to do high-fives. Frogs are fragile, easily stressed, and can get injured or even die when in contact with certain chemicals on your hand. Dart frogs are not dogs or cats, you enjoy them behind a glass tank. They’ll be happy and you’ll be happy. Training is just pushing their limits.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I could see where this material could be severely misused.


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

FroggerFrog said:


> Interesting...
> 
> Once again, I wonder if the frogs were stressed though. I think they may have been at first but they slowly come out of their shell.
> 
> I think when people think of dart frogs as pets, they think they can be trained. Yes, in a way but I doubt they would be able to learn how to do high-fives. Frogs are fragile, easily stressed, and can get injured or even die when in contact with certain chemicals on your hand. Dart frogs are not dogs or cats, you enjoy them behind a glass tank. They’ll be happy and you’ll be happy. Training is just pushing their limits.


I don't want them to hi five me man, look beyond what I say literally
Wouldn't it be nice if they could hop into a cup without you going were and grabbing and stressing it if you need to move them around?

Or maybe when someone visits and say "where is the frog you told us about?" you could just ring a bell or something and they come out to say hi, the weighting I mention above for example, simple things you know?


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

Kmc said:


> I could see where this material could be severely misused.


How come?


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Ruiqlav said:


> I don't want them to hi five me man, look beyond what I say literally
> Wouldn't it be nice if they could hop into a cup without you going were and grabbing and stressing it if you need to move them around?
> 
> Or maybe when someone visits and say "where is the frog you told us about?" you could just ring a bell or something and they come out to say hi, the weighting I mention above for example, simple things you know?


You can get them into a cup pretty easily if the frog isn’t skittish. Not too hard.

Forcing a frog to be in sight can also be a stress factor. Of course, you wouldn’t be forcing it but same idea.

It was an example. You mentioned that fish can do high-fives so I took that as an example even if that’s what fish can do, not frogs. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

FroggerFrog said:


> Forcing a frog to be in sight can also be a stress factor. Of course, you wouldn’t be forcing it but same idea.


You aren't forcing if they come by their own because of the food incentive, is not like you pulling up their Coco hut to make them be in the open

I shouldn't mentioned the hi-5... You know I've seen one research with cichlids as well I can't recall if it was about defending nests or school reaction

With a arrangements of mirrors they make it seem like the fish on the side of the fish studied wasn't really trying to contact/ defend the fish in front of it, was only pretending to go, while the other was really going at it

That makes the fish studied turn and bump into the fish on the side "like c'mon dude help me out here"
It's all the same fish but very interesting to see


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Ruiqlav said:


> You aren't forcing if they come by their own because of the food incentive, is not like you pulling up their Coco hut to make them be in the open
> 
> I shouldn't mentioned the hi-5... You know I've seen one research with cichlids as well I can't recall if it was about defending nests or school reaction
> 
> ...


You aren’t forcing them but you’re not letting them take a break. If they come out, that’s all fine but if they don’t and you’ve seriously tried it a bunch of times, then it’s better to leave them go. If you want to get them to come out, a bolder frog, food, or a creative tank design might be better than ringing a bell.

That fish study is interesting. Do you mind linking it?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

What is the purpose for a home hobbyist to do this? How does it benefit the frogs?

It can be misused by people who dont even understand typical behaviors, stress, of frogs, but become enamored with " training" for their own entertainment and "Views" etc.
The public has become psychologically View Sick.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

I understand behavioral experiments (that don't harm the animals) in the context of scientists studying animal cognition, but don't think there's a need for hobbyists to attempt this for an array of reasons. 

I've never had to weigh a frog and would hazard a guess that outside of the lab no one needs to.

As for visibility for your visitors, tapping a fruit fly container ought to be more than sufficient for bolder species like terribilis and tinctorius, if they aren't already at the door begging or threatening you.

For shy, introverted frogs? May as well respect their privacy.


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

FroggerFrog said:


> You aren’t forcing them but you’re not letting them take a break. If they come out, that’s all fine but if they don’t and you’ve seriously tried it a bunch of times, then it’s better to leave them go. If you want to get them to come out, a bolder frog, food, or a creative tank design might be better than ringing a bell.
> 
> That fish study is interesting. Do you mind linking it?


But if they come for a incentive that they are seeking it is still voluntary, no different of them learning door open, spray, food and hop forward 

I tried to find while I was writing it, I couldn't find, the only one I found is the one in wired with "Male Fish Dislike Their Reflections"


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Ruiqlav said:


> But if they come for a incentive that they are seeking it is still voluntary, no different of them learning door open, spray, food and hop forward
> 
> I tried to find while I was writing it, I couldn't find, the only one I found is the one in wired with "Male Fish Dislike Their Reflections"


Like the other guys said, there is not benefit whatsoever on doing this. Plus, don’t you think the loud sound will do the opposite? So much other ways, so much greater outcomes.

Thanks by the way!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

A concern is that there will be inevitable variables in appropriating this activity outside of a zoo setting. Many details require interdisciplinary training in 'experiment design' and background knowledge. 

It can become a badly executed stressor very easily and without any real purpose.


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

Kmc said:


> A concern is that there will be inevitable variables in appropriating this activity outside of a zoo setting. Many details require interdisciplinary training in 'experiment design' and background knowledge.
> 
> It can become a badly executed stressor very easily and without any real purpose.


Why you think I need a credential to teach simple behaviours to my pets?

If something stuff like weighting, head count, visual health checks, and stimulus to the captive animal don't convince you guys, I don't know what will, maybe because would be fun? Interact other than just watch them maybe?

I didn't expect you guys, in a group of frogs, would be so close minded to teach frogs things


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Ruiqlav said:


> Why you think I need a credential to teach simple behaviours to a pet?
> 
> If something stuff like weighting, head count, visual health checks, and stimulus to the captive animal don't convince you guys, I don't know what will, maybe because would be fun? Interact other than just watch them maybe?
> 
> I didn't expect you guys, in a group of frogs, would be so close minded to teach frogs things


A zoo has experienced zookeepers and veterinarians on the spot. Not saying no one except a zoo can attempt this successfully but the regular hobbyist can get nowhere near the level of experience and success of a zoological institute. Not even experienced hobbyist can mix and train animals successfully.

Frogs are fragile creatures. It’s so much better off to let them go. Not to mention interaction with them can stress the frog to the point of death. You can hold a snake and gently pet some lizards but you can’t interact with dart frogs. It’s just not safe for them.

(interact as in bothering them. No offense.)


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Ruiqlav said:


> I didn't expect you guys, in a group of frogs, would be so close minded to teach frogs things


It isn't closed-mindedness, it is that folks here tend to give prudent advice. There isn't anything wrong with basic operant conditioning (so long is it uses only positive reinforcement, anyway) -- as mentioned above, most of us do so unconsciously, sometimes. 

The resistance you're getting is likely mostly due to this coming way, way too early. Getting husbandry down pat (which takes much longer than many people guess -- it is longer than months) should be the goal before harassing the frogs with stimuli that may or may not alter their behavior in undesirable ways, behavior which someone who isn't exceedingly familiar with baseline behavior couldn't possibly recognize.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Ruiqlav said:


> Why you think I need a credential to teach simple behaviours to my pets?


I can't speak for anyone else here, but to be very clear, I didn't say you need credentials. I said there's no real utility or benefit for this type of thing on a hobby level.



Ruiqlav said:


> If something stuff like weighting,


Haven't had to weigh a frog (or a snake, or a monitor, or a gecko, or a chelonian, etc.) in many years of keeping these animals. That's a solution looking for a problem.



Ruiqlav said:


> [...] *head count, visual health checks,* and stimulus to the captive animal don't convince you guys, I don't know what will, maybe because would be fun? Interact other than just watch them maybe?


Both unnecessary. As for 'stimulus', that's an interesting point, but how do you gauge what's _*stimulating*_ vs. what's *stressful *for a small neo-tropical dart frog? Honest question. What follows is another question:

How can you provide stimulation for the animal's built-in, evolved suite of instincts?

*These things come to mind immediately:*

Providing a lot of space in multiple dimensions
Providing a variety of prey items, novel situations to forage and hunt for those items (e.g. heights, in leaf litter etc.) 
Simulating wet and dry seasons and weather
Simulating fresh deadfall -- the frogs _will_ investigate novel items
All of which seem less fraught than trying to run operant conditioning on them.

As for fun and interaction, I get plenty from daily maintenance and feeding of the little monsters. If I wanted more interaction in a more traditional "pet" sense, I'd probably just get a budgie, a cat or a chipmunk or a rat...all of which make better "pets" in the traditional sense than a dart frog ever will.



Ruiqlav said:


> I didn't expect you guys, in a group of frogs, would be so close minded to teach frogs things


So if someone disagrees with you and provides reasons for doing so, they're "close minded"? LOL....come on. You may want to re-think that last bit.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Fahad said:


> As for fun and interaction, I get plenty from daily maintenance and feeding of the little monsters. If I wanted more interaction in a more traditional "pet" sense, I'd probably just get a budgie, a cat or a chipmunk or a rat...all of which make better "pets" in the traditional sense than a dart frog ever will.


These guys are entertaining in a way that you don’t seem to fully understand, @Ruiqlav. They aren’t an animal that you can play, touch, or interact with you. There an animal that can be silly or entertaining without interaction. It’s like watching a show.


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## Ruiqlav (Mar 22, 2021)

Fahad said:


> what's _*stimulating*_ vs. what's *stressful *for a small neo-tropical dart frog? Honest question.


How do you do otherwise? For a small neo-tropical dart frog locked in a glass cage so meticulously built by you? The non hypocritical argument would be "let them to the wild" don't you think? 




FroggerFrog said:


> These guys are entertaining in a way that you don’t seem to fully understand, @Ruiqlav. They aren’t an animal that you can play, touch, or interact with you. There an animal that can be silly or entertaining without interaction. It’s like watching a show.


I got it man I don't go about cuddling my fishes and all that... Anyways I just wanted to find someone that tried that I could chat with, I don't want any beef


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I prefer them to teach me.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Ruiqlav said:


> I got it man I don't go about cuddling my fishes and all that... Anyways I just wanted to find someone that tried that I could chat with, I don't want any beef


If you want to train your frog, you should realize that training your frog will have the same outcomes as cuddling your fish, the latter having more serious results though.

I think you get the point though. This thread has spiraled out of control.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

FroggerFrog said:


> training your frog will have the same outcomes as cuddling your fish


Really? Elaborate, please.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Ruiqlav said:


> How do you do otherwise?


I already addressed that in the same post you quoted, by pointing out they come with a suite of built-in instincts that can be engaged, with the reasonable expectation that it's unlikely to cause them stress or discomfort, vs. a completely novel input.

Note that I said "reasonable expectation" because I don't pretend to know all the answers, I just try to work within a safe margin for error.



Ruiqlav said:


> For a small neo-tropical dart frog locked in a glass cage so meticulously built by you? The non hypocritical argument would be "let them to the wild" don't you think?


Where do you see hypocrisy? I've stated more than once on this forum that we keep these animals for entertainment. I've also stated that from an ecological standpoint captive dendrobatid populations in the hobby are null, that is to say effectively 'dead' because they will never be part of a re-introduction program.

I also think that setting up operant conditioning with novel inputs they may not be reasonably expected to encounter in the wild, is *not* equivalent to maintaining a suitable habitat within a confined area.

To recap, the scenarios you suggested are either unnecessary or accomplished via less intrusive, observational means.

The 'entertainment' scenario is dubious _at best_. (EDIT: the idea of training them for fun) And I don't see how non-intrusive rearing and maintenance of these animals in confinement, is actually equivalent to possibly stressing them out to condition them in unnatural ways, which seems to be the position you're taking -- quite a methodological leap at best, a logical fallacy at worst.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Really? Elaborate, please.


If you’re going to bother the frog a lot in a theoretic situation, the frog will experience stress. We all know stress can sometimes lead to death.

Handling a fish can cause short-term stress if it isn’t already dead from being out of water for so much time. (yet again, I’m not really in the aquarium hobby.) Furthermore, you can spread pathogens to the fish or the fish can spread pathogens to you if you have a cut.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

FroggerFrog said:


> If you’re going to bother the frog a lot in a theoretic situation, the frog will experience stress. We all know stress can sometimes lead to death.
> 
> Handling a fish can cause short-term stress if it isn’t already dead from being out of water for so much time. (yet again, I’m not really in the aquarium hobby.) Furthermore, you can spread pathogens to the fish or the fish can spread pathogens to you if you have a cut.


There’s a branch of different outcomes caused by handling a fish and training a frog correctly can work explained by the videos (I don’t know what happens behind the scenes though.), but if the training fails, training can have the same outcome as handling a fish, albeit with more of a straightforward outcome.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

First video: "Finally the frog understood" -- the frog was investigating because like a lot of captive frogs know, the presence of humans often = food. It didn't 'understand' anything initially. The rest is not really so different from my terribilis instantly looking upwards at me and approaching the door if they hear the tap of a plastic fruit fly container. The claim about 'weighing them for health' is unnecessary outside of a lab setting. 

I don't think anyone here will look at that video and really think the frogs are stressed, but pointing out that it's essentially useless and has the potential for going quite wrong, is just responsible input from keepers who know these animals.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Fahad said:


> First video: "Finally the frog understood" -- the frog was investigating because like a lot of captive frogs know, the presence of humans often = food. It didn't 'understand' anything initially. The rest is not really so different from my terribilis instantly looking upwards at me and approaching the door if they hear the tap of a plastic fruit fly container. The claim about 'weighing them for health' is unnecessary outside of a lab setting.
> 
> I don't think anyone here will look at that video and really think the frogs are stressed, but pointing out that it's essentially useless and has the potential for going quite wrong, is just responsible input from keepers who know these animals.


The videos never show the frogs being in any kind of stress but if you train them in the wrong way or do it way too often, it can be stressful for the frogs, especially shyer frogs.

You’re right. If it isn’t stressful, it’s utterly useless.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Fahad said:


> The claim about 'weighing them for health' is unnecessary outside of a lab setting.


Sorry if I’m hijacking the thread but isn’t it clear to the regular hobbyist to just read off the image of the frog for its weight? Maybe it’s not clear for some frogs (example: female anthonyi and tricolors) but you can still clearly see if the frog is thin or even obese.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Maybe the experiment (such as it is) was for a class project or something, so they needed to make it sound relevant for marks. Who knows.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

People new to keeping exotics often become motivated by many ideas and plans. Animals are exciting. There is often a vulnerability to absorb influences and concepts that a person - maybe even the same person - would recognize as a flawed goal when they have gained some discernment. Hopefully.


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## MasterOogway (Mar 22, 2011)

Zookeeper here. I don't train my frogs; I would make the case that several of the frogs I've worked with have been _conditioned_ to tong feed, etc, but I don't train them with clickers or operant conditioning, and I don't really know any other keepers that do either. I just don't see the point, most herps do not need or desire human interaction, they want to sit on a log or under a leaf all day and be left alone. It has been my experience (easily 20+ years at this point) that the less you bother and mess with herps, the better they do. 

I've never trained my personal frogs either, nor needed to get weights as a visual assessment of their BCI is all I've ever really needed to know if something was up or not. Plus, with darts, whatever scale you use will not be accurate considering they weigh a paltry amount of grams, and scales are just not that accurate unless you're getting lab grade scales, which, why?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

There is a real concern with the notion of "Training my Frog" becoming a part of motivation for getting dart frogs. People like to copy things.

The weighing and other specious "reasons" are not even actively relevant. Like a dart frog is a pregnant ibex or something that needs to be trained to step up on a scale rig.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The frogs are being applied novel stressor input. Its not beneficial to the frogs. It fuels no benefit of fitness because it is a novel stressor according to the biology of stress.

Many examinations and experiments have used novel stressor designs to find out things. But it rings unethical in 'pet' circumstances.


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## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

Fahad said:


> The rest is not really so different from my terribilis instantly looking upwards at me and approaching the door if they hear the tap of a plastic fruit fly container.


Technically speaking, this is already some kind of conditional (you could say unwillingly trained) behaviour. Same for my frogs. My mantella tend to gather in a half circle each morning around the spot where flies are usually dumped. My auratus come hopping when they hear the tank door slide open and closed again looking for food in the usual spot where I feed them. All of these are following Pavlov's training to some degree. There is a cue, followed by a reward.

I don't want to encourage the "click" or "get on a scale" type of training, but technically we are all already conditioning our frogs by following a certain routine. And the frogs are tuned in on it, which is what we like. You feed the frogs and they come out. You see the frogs and they can feed and do other froggy stuff within the boundries of their instincts. Everybody is happy.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

novel stressor inputs are not the same as averse stimuli although they can often be. I had to habituate a vieled chameleon to a simple novel stressor action once because of a procedure i knew was necessary in his near future. It was a simple action of placing my hand behind his casque and shoulder area, and then reaching over with my other hand. When he no longer had a strong reaction to this action, which I did quietly and without fanfare daily when he was in a reachable position on perch, he was ready to have the procedure with a portion of the initial stress response to being approached and touched, mitigated.

But it was necessary. Imo. I liked him very much and wanted it to be less unpleasant, fear wise.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The hand over brief clasp described may not actually fit the criteria for a novel stressor (otherwise termed _unnatural stressor) _ it may have actually replicated a predatory event, ie, close call encounter which would be considered a natural stressor - that which there is an evolutionary precedence for, with a consequence of hardwired neural and biochemical responses.

I am not sure and would appreciate an animal behavioralist opinion on it.

What I am sure of, is that it wasnt gratuitous.


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## ukspicoli (Jun 28, 2021)

Proof to you all that you CAN train a frog. Furthermore, this proves even a frog living outside of some BS simulated environment can be trained. Talk about stress levels, you guys are all stressing me. Yes…it’s training with food but so are most dogs. And this guy lived in my garage which is full of bugs So I know he ate all damn day. Yet, there he was every night under the same box waiting for the broom man. Lol


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## ukspicoli (Jun 28, 2021)

ukspicoli said:


> Proof to you all that you CAN train a frog. Furthermore, this proves even a frog living outside of some BS simulated environment can be trained. Talk about stress levels, you guys are all stressing me. Yes…it’s training with food but so are most dogs. And this guy lived in my garage which is full of bugs So I know he ate all damn day. Yet, there he was every night under the same box waiting for the broom man. Lol


And, yes, it was for my damn entertainment!


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

ukspicoli said:


> And, yes, it was for my damn entertainment!


I love it. Hah.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Its good to watch a Boss in action.


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## ukspicoli (Jun 28, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Its good to watch a Boss in action.


Just having fun, sir! I did learn a lot here though!


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Honestly I have trained my tincs to know when it's feeding time or if I'm concerned if I hadn't seen them in a while to check on them by misting the cage or open the door once then shut it. It's one way I've checked on them to make sure everything is okay. They know it's usually feeding time by that and I've done it before to also trick them into coming out in advent I am concerned.


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

There is absolutely some utility in training a frog to be more comfortable with our hands, and possibly to come on cue. I've given a lot of thought to this, and with another member recently posting a thread about emergency evacuation planning, I felt like the time was right to say so. In most emergency situations, there simply will not be time to get a large collection out of a home. However, if frogs are trained to jump into a container on cue, this can potentially save their lives. It can also make trips to the vet less stressful, and removing them for other purposes such as rehoming or changing to another tank much simpler. 

Training, when done CORRECTLY, which I cannot stress enough, decreases the internal stress response to certain stimuli.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Woodswalker said:


> There is absolutely some utility in training a frog to be more comfortable with our hands, and possibly to come on cue. I've given a lot of thought to this, and with another member recently posting a thread about emergency evacuation planning, I felt like the time was right to say so. In most emergency situations, there simply will not be time to get a large collection out of a home. However, if frogs are trained to jump into a container on cue, this can potentially save their lives. It can also make trips to the vet less stressful, and removing them for other purposes such as rehoming or changing to another tank much simpler.
> 
> Training, when done CORRECTLY, which I cannot stress enough, decreases the internal stress response to certain stimuli.



My thoughts exactly. The other thing I've wondered, has anyone ever successfully handfed terribilis or any other species? We can easily do that with other frogs, but it would be very difficult to do that with more timid species. The reason, if your fruit fly or cricket cultures crash and all the crazy weather we have in this country you may be without food for a while for your frogs. This isn't an issue for the majority of other pet frogs you can feed with frozen food with tweezers, but has anyone actually tried to train any of their dart frogs to accept nonliving food? Mantellas are too skittish for it to work for me, but I do remember from way back when someone on kingsnake.com's old amphibian forum said they dropped those freeze dried flies you buy at petco in front of their tincs nose and they would eat them.


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## DendroVirago (Jan 18, 2020)

Professional animal trainer here. For a variety of reasons (too complicated for a quick forum board response), the video is not especially good training, nor does it seem to have any benefit in terms of behavioral enrichment. I have colleagues that train Poison Frogs to hop into an acrylic box. They train this because it's important to have regular visual inspections of the underside of frogs to look for injury and/or infection, and it is less stressful than handling the frog, flipping it on its back, etc. Everything is trained and executed in the least intrusive, minimally aversive manner possible. I use clickers with many species, but I would hesitate to use one with a frog (again, complicated...but acoustically, it has the potential to be aversive).


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

DendroVirago said:


> Professional animal trainer here. For a variety of reasons (too complicated for a quick forum board response), the video is not especially good training, nor does it seem to have any benefit in terms of behavioral enrichment. I have colleagues that train Poison Frogs to hop into an acrylic box. They train this because it's important to have regular visual inspections of the underside of frogs to look for injury and/or infection, and it is less stressful than handling the frog, flipping it on its back, etc. Everything is trained and executed in the least intrusive, minimally aversive manner possible. I use clickers with many species, but I would hesitate to use one with a frog (again, complicated...but acoustically, it has the potential to be aversive).


Thank you for chiming in. This is what I think the OP may also have been trying to explain. Giving the frog a choice to hop into a container, followed by a reward, is much less stressful than chasing a frog, triggering its fight or flight response to dive into a container in fear for its life. 

As for marking the behavior, there are softer sounds that can be used. Some people use metal bottle caps, like Snapple lids, which have a gentler pop. Even a gentle tap with your fingernail against a small block of wood might work without being an aversive.


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## DendroVirago (Jan 18, 2020)

Woodswalker said:


> As for marking the behavior, there are softer sounds that can be used. Some people use metal bottle caps, like Snapple lids, which have a gentler pop. Even a gentle tap with your fingernail against a small block of wood might work without being an aversive.


Agree, but maybe unnecessary. Just let classical conditioning work its magic.


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## schustbk25 (9 mo ago)

FroggerFrog said:


> This would be hilarious!
> 
> I honestly doubt you can train a frog. Not only would it might put them in stress, it wouldn’t work. I’ve never seen anyone train a frog before! However, my family thinks they can train my crestie. I wouldn’t put a penny on it but maybe it could happen...


ive trained a toad before her name was sam and she acted like a dog she would hand feed she would follow people she would stay and come when called she pretty much did what a dog did it sounds funny but ive trained a toad before.


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