# [buildlog] first tank 30g



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

hi everybody, i recently got my self a tank to get some nice piece of jungle into my living room

this is the first time im building something like this so im always happy about feedback and suggestions how to do things or what im doing wrong. 
i most likely will have lots of questions which, but ive already used this forum and other resources extensively to get all the basic knowledge that i need, so i will be asking around.

got the tanks and did some leak testing, also wanted to see what the pump can do









found a nice log on a walk but not sure if its good to use in the tank









doing some landscape planning, the idea i have in my mind is to have the area where no styro is with water, but at this point i dont really know how to do that









some testing with foam. ive seen a youtube vid where really nice forms could be created by covering the foam with sand so this is my first attempt at this (heres the link https://youtu.be/ELtoOJKgfKM )

covering the foam with sand









uaaahhhh i do not have enogh sand










oh no it doesnt stop to expand (this was fully expanded)









next day i removed the sand and found some really interesting looking structures below 









i removed the borders and the foam that was not covered with sand and did some refinement of the structures, im really happy how this first version turned out. it will serve as the back wall but most likely will need some adjustments










so the next step will be to figure out how i construct the water area on the bottom and see how that back will fit into the pictures. 
also i will need to figure out how the wood will be integrated. a lot to do and a lot of fun

hope you like it and i get some feedback


----------



## Sigis (Feb 8, 2015)

Okey, expanding foam and sand is awesome! Definitely gonna try this some time! Your background is goint to be great.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Sigis said:


> Okey, expanding foam and sand is awesome! Definitely gonna try this some time! Your background is goint to be great.


i was thinking of throwing some gravel and smaller rocks into the sand mix, that might give some more spice to the background
thanks, i think i will need to do some more foaming to fit the water tubing inside and create some places for small pots. also need to foam in the wood that i cut down to fit in to the tank 
but not sure if i will go with that big one or rather use a couple of smaller ones. but for sure i want some kind of small "roots" in the bottom of the tank that extend into the water area










i was also talking with someone about the back wall and he told me it would be better to use a concrete mix instead of the silicone/coconut fibre because that will come off eventually. 
any tips what to use on that back wall?


----------



## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

I think the wood fits the tank perfectly, however it looks soft and might decompose quickly.
Where in Europe are you from? You can get egg crate here, it's just a little more expensive.
I posted some links in this thread, both to places that sell egg crate as well as a link to a ebay seller that sells very cheap filter foam which is a great alternative.


----------



## Y0urbestfriend (Jan 31, 2014)

Looks awesome so far! I love how much texture the background has already. I'd suggest you maybe put in another piece of wood in the right corner against the background, you can never have too much driftwood in my opinion


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Sammie said:


> I think the wood fits the tank perfectly, however it looks soft and might decompose quickly.
> Where in Europe are you from? You can get egg crate here, it's just a little more expensive.
> I posted some links in this thread, both to places that sell egg crate as well as a link to a ebay seller that sells very cheap filter foam which is a great alternative.



its actually pretty tough, had to saw it all the way through, i was not able to break it. so maybe its harder than it looks 
not sure what wood it is, maybe from an oak or something like that, i might check the spot where i got it and see if i can find out what tree this comes from.

thanks for the link, im from Switzerland so it will cost extra to ship here. but im sure i can find something similar here thats also cheaper, or maybe work with a different method.

as for the filter, i found some really cheap stuff at a local store


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Y0urbestfriend said:


> Looks awesome so far! I love how much texture the background has already. I'd suggest you maybe put in another piece of wood in the right corner against the background, you can never have too much driftwood in my opinion


thanks, and great idea i still have some wood laying around and want to get some more when i progress further. will definitely play around with some more wood.


----------



## Y0urbestfriend (Jan 31, 2014)

Subbed by the way


----------



## gdebell (Oct 1, 2014)

Good job on the sand and foam background. First time I've seen that.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

the second bake is on its way

this time i try to foam in the wood and add some more volume so i can route the tubing up on the right side and along the top. but its going to be a really tight fit, i hope it will fit into the tank when its dried










and fully expanded (used more sand to cover this time)









i also started a 2nd part where i wanna try some things for the bottom area








fully expanded (with lot less sand, used most on the first part)









i was also thinking if it might be possible to create perfect fitting foams with this sand method. lets say we put a loose layer of sand on the first part of the foam and then foam on top of that, i think it should be possible to "break" the 2nd part loose and have it perfectly fitting together, which might allow me to put everything together outside of the tank and then put it together inside and seal it off with silicone or so.
anyone ever tried something like this?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

so heres another update

first part freed from sand, again a nice result

























the 2nd part which had not much sand on it, this gives a lot of caves and overhanging foam. i think its nice that the amount of sand results in different results and can be controlled really easy. however this kind of result will be really hard to make water proof. 

















then i did some sculpting on the first part and removed the foam that was to much, mainly in the top region. i had an idea that i could route the water along the top so it would run over the top down, but i will see if that is good at a later stage i guess.









now i tried to fit it back into the tank but the wood was to long









so i had to cut it a bit back and i was able to put it back in









now after all that work i realized that i really have not thought much about plants so far so now is a good time to start planning where i want some plants and i started fixing some small pots in. the nice thing about the foam is that its really easy to tear out a part and add some new bits to make it work.









and here is what i most likely will be using the 2nd part for, the plan is to make a border for the water/plant region and use the inner part for a water filtration system like in a aquarium pump... no idea how good this is working or its working at all, so maybe if you have some experience with this im happy to get some feedback.


















so far im happy but making really slow progress, now i think the hard part will begin, which includes the integration of the water system and the plant regions
i have not yet figured out how i want/can solve the filtration and the cleaning of the pump but i hope the build will lead to some elegant solution for that problem
again im always happy for feedback, ideas and critics. since its the first time im doing this i guess im building some mistakes into this which i am not aware of


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

a small update with the plant spots foamed in


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I really like how it turned out your background, it is very effective, but I do not like the white foam so at sight. Iwould put a bit of silicone and sand to eliminate these bare spots (which are like an eyesore) waiting for the green plants completely covers them.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

rigel10 said:


> I really like how it turned out your background, it is very effective, but I do not like the white foam so at sight. Iwould put a bit of silicone and sand to eliminate these bare spots (which are like an eyesore) waiting for the green plants completely covers them.


thanks, its not finished yet, so there will be a cover over the whole background


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

i did some testing with cement yesterday and learned a lot about that material which is nice. however, the result so far is not so nice and i do not like the basic color of it and will have to add some color to the cement. 
im also experimenting a bit with different mix ratios to see how the material varies, but this will take some time since the curing phase can be really long (but i probably not need to fully cure for testing)

if anyone is interested in some details how to work with it, i found this to be very informative Delaware Reef Club


















a test piece where i try a thicker layer to see how the stability will be and will probably cure it a couple of weeks









i also built in a filter cage for the pump, next will be to route the tubes behind the background


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

an other update, i was not able to do much because i had to wait for the cement color which finally arrived but i did some water testing to see where i want the drip, and also had plenty of time to think about how i do the bottom part so i can access the pump.

heres a pic of the water test, theres some goo growing on the wood... not sure what to do about that, but since i will not have any animal in there for now i guess i can see how it develops (since its my first system im thinking about just to try how manage the whole thing and only think about animals when im knowing what im doing and its safe for them.










the different colors that i ordered








and some testing how much color is needed and also some different mixtures.
from left to right
cement:sand: color
black(1:2:1), black(1:4:0.1), brown1(1:6:0.1), mahagony(1:6:0.1), no color









i did not mix the teak brown but i get a good idea how it looks since the color is pretty much what it is in the bag. so far the mahagony brown looks most natural to represent soil but the plan is to do bit a mix of all also some brighter grey to get a nice rocky/soily looking background... but i will let the examples cure for a week or so to get an idea about the strength of the mixture and the final color (if that changes at all).


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

the different mixtures turned out to be really unstable so i setteled for the 1:2 mix 









and finally did the first layer of cement on the background

















so now i let it cure for a couple of days and apply the next layer. that one will be a bit thicker and should allow me to do a bit more sculpting but i have to see what kind of rocky surface i want to recreate... need to do some googleing.
if you have some inspiration please feel free to post some links.


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I like it. It seems to me that the grid under the door of your viv is too large, so the fruit flies go through it.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

rigel10 said:


> I like it. It seems to me that the grid under the door of your viv is too large, so the fruit flies go through it.


yes i noticed that, also on top theres the same grid. but for now i will not put animals inside till i managed the plant/climate stuff. i guess i could replace the whole thing with some finer meshing.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

did a 2nd layer today and worked in the tubing for the water channel
on the next layer i plan to use thicker black cement mix to try recreate some rock shapes and then go over some areas with some different browns and maybe a bit white color to get some contrast into the background.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

started with the last layer and the sculpting, takes longer than expected and is not as easy as i thought but its fun


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

did some more sculpting im pretty happy how it turned out but i might fill up some gaps since i think the features are a bit to small


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

almost one month of build time has passed and i finally moved the wall in the tank for watering it. meaning washing out the high ph that gets generated by the hardening process of the cement (if i got that correct). so the tap water that i use to was it has a ph of about 8.5 and after about 1 hour the water in the bottom of the tank is about 10.3 ph. i will change the water tomorrow and see how long it will take to reach that level again.. .and will do notes on that in the next weeks (hope not months till ph is down).

im really happy how it looks in the tank, cant wait to start on the bottom part

the thing where i failed is with the plant spots, i could not keep the water holes open (should have used some rubber tubes for that, and they got quite small. not sure if i gona drill some holes and seal the inside with silicone or so. but i have to come up with something for that.

so if one wants watering holes with cement use rubber tubes to keep them open^^


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

i couldnt resist to put some green in there:O the moss will probably die because of the ph but at least i get an idea how it will look


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

You did a good job! I know that shipping costs for Switzerland are very very high, but I know that there are frogs breeders in your country, which you can ask some plant cuttings or maybe you can split with them the shipping costs for collective purchases.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

thanks, still a lot of work to be done
i found some German sites which offer a lot of plants and also a nice place in Switzerland where they sell a lot of plants. 
but i read here that its best to first choose the frogs and get the plants they like. i really like the yellow/black ones but maybe there are some frogs that really like a rocky habitat, so i am happy for some input


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

No problem about plants and frogs, unless you do not want a biotope vivarium. Climbing plants, as ficus, some ferns, bromeliads (these unnecessary for certain species), in short all plants typical of a rainforest viv, as you can see in many examples here, are good. These plants are also easy to find in local stores.
About frogs loving rocky habitat, I can think Hylolaxus azureiventris, but it is not easy to find these frogs. They are very nice frogs, but underrated.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

had to do some testing for the water/ground area. 
i used hydroballs to get the ground above the water and used some bigger rocks to divide the 2 areas. it seems to work really good, so im considering doing it like this. 
so the layering will be something like hydroballs>fleece>substrate>moss/plants/leaves but not sure what to use as substrate yet. gona have to do some researching, any tips are welcome

the idea is also to make the ground sloping towards the back wall but i have to rip everything out again anyways when the ph is down and do the final build.
oh and ph is down to about 8.9ph (peak was about 11:O)


----------



## faspencer (Jul 16, 2013)

The tank looks gorgeous!


Sent from my iPhone


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

thanks i hope the ph level will stabilize soon so i can continue to work on it.

for the ones interested how the ph evolves, im adding the daily mesurements to a google sheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...7emcuaPgwIqIWvkcFCw/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

found some awesome looking wood yesterday that fits my idea really nice
so today i cut it up a bit to get it into the tank to see how it could look. i think its to much at the moment but it will give me some really nice options to play with


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

i was on a hike yesterday and found some really nice mosses that were growing in some wet areas. so i grabbed some of them and also some ferns. since im still in testing mode with my tank i think it cant hurt to see what can survive:O
i also cut the wood a bit more and like the layout a lot like it is now 











































i took to verry similar pictures that gave this depth effect dont look to long at it or you might get sick


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Please, stop the viv or you'll have to pick up the broken glass!
The last moss is very nice!


----------



## stingeragent (Jul 3, 2015)

That depth picture is awesome although think I may go puke now. Build is looking great. I'm about to start my first ever build soon.


----------



## TJ_Burton (Jul 22, 2015)

Great start, and fantastic custom background!


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

stingeragent said:


> That depth picture is awesome although think I may go puke now. Build is looking great. I'm about to start my first ever build soon.


sorry unfortunately i can not edit the message, maybe i havent found the edit button yet... 
let me know if you need any tips on the cement part, i think i learned quite some things doing this project. and let me know if you start a buildlog



TJ_Burton said:


> Great start, and fantastic custom background!


thanks a lot, things start to grow slowly, its a bit a bad feeling to know that i have to take everything apart to finalize the installation


----------



## Map (Jun 24, 2015)

Looking really beautiful so far, can't wait to see it in action.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

heres a update how its going so far.
the ph seems to slowly drop so im looking forward to tear it down and do the final setup.

in the meantime i did try some different things with the water area,
i added some river gravel which i gathered at a local river and i really like the color variation that it brings with it









a underwater shot









and yesterday i got some echinodorus plants to see if they would survive in the tank and some fine gravel which will help lower the water level and give something these plants can dig into. 








pic from the side (sorry for the dirty glass)









i really love the look of the bigger echinodorus but as far as ive seen the leaves will grow to a longer form. according to the naming it is this one 
Echinodorus Dschungelstar Nr. 4 (E04 Echin. GRIZZLI-BÄR, Fa. Den - Aquaristik-Studio Heimrich

but ive seen one that would keep the round leaves which i will definitely get if this species survives in the tank.
Echinodorus cordifolius or echinodorus argentinensis (but will do some more research before getting one)


the cement at the top is getting some nice coloring due to the water flowing over it and some algee growth
theres also some moss that did not make it but also some moss that starts to sprout, like on the branch in the middle.









i really learned a lot again and hope you like it and if you have any tips im glad for all the information i can get


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

i decided to tear it down to get started with the final installation
there was quite some algee build up on the top part so i might move the light further to the front to avoid that or reduce the light duration but i will have to see what will work best.
so it will be about a week till i can start with the final setup, im getting excited


----------



## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

I really like everything you have done so far. It should look real good once you get to the final build stage.


----------



## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

That background looks great. Love how it already looks worn and grown in with all the algae and everything. You cant fake that look and it usually seems to take a long time to achieve. Its amazing since you haven't even finished your build.

Is the green waterfall hose going to be hidden in the final version? 

Also, what is that plant in the pic that is below the underwater shot? Its on the far right and looks like a fern marcgravia.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

cam1941 said:


> That background looks great. Love how it already looks worn and grown in with all the algae and everything. You cant fake that look and it usually seems to take a long time to achieve. Its amazing since you haven't even finished your build.
> 
> Is the green waterfall hose going to be hidden in the final version?
> 
> Also, what is that plant in the pic that is below the underwater shot? Its on the far right and looks like a fern marcgravia.


unfortunately its almost clean again since i brushed it down to remove any nasty leftovers since i wanted to do a clean start again. but i guess it will be even better once it ages

yes the green tube is going behind the wall, if you look at earlier pictures you can see the construction somewhere. or just look in the next post, there it is in its right place

the plant below the waterfaall is a echinodorus, i think i wrote the exact name (with link) a couple of posts back. but it is a aquarium plant which can grow out of the water so it should survive in high humidity environments. but since i took things apart it doesnt look like it survived.
i dont know what fern it is, its a local one that i picked in the forest, i dont think i will have it in the final build since it can grow really big, like 1m or so


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

so finally i started to put everything together

here are some pictures of the progress

putting in the background and putting some weight on it while the silicon is drying









i put the pump into a enclosed filter mat so it survives in there as long as possible and can be burried:O (probably a bad mistake im doing here)









building the water area









put in my substrate mix and read 1 hour after it that one should take the sphagnum apart to mix to avoid wet spots, so thats probably my 2nd mistake









and finally applied a moss mix to the background and the wood, you wont believe how difficult it was to find a tropical moss mix here. i think its the only supplier in my country that has it, and one is not allowed to order from outside the country


----------



## Engeli (Oct 3, 2014)

You should be allowed to order moss mix from outside the country. It's just not so easy for things that need CITES (like tree fern or orchids). I don't think this applies for moss.


----------



## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks. Probably best that you leave it out then lol... Was really cool though.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

yeah im trying to find a fern that looks similar to it but comes from the south america region and stays smaller, so far ive seen _nephrolepis spec._ but the looks is quite different, so maybe i will give the local one an other try...


anyways, here are some updates

i received some plants and had to find out that my back wall is not really made to hold lots of them. i knew during the building of it that i failed in that regard but guess i will have to make the best of it. so im hoping for the moss and maybe some random ferns and small plants to grow over.

plant list:

marcgravia umbrellata (creeper)
Microgramma nitida (fern)
platystele misera (orchid)
oncidium meirax (orchid)
Fittonia albivenis (ground)
Neoregelia carolinae (bromelia)
moos-mix (moss)

some things start to grow on the wall, YAY and also some green starts to appear which i guess/hope is the moss





















































i really like the look of the marcgravia umbrellata (creeper), i expected it to have lot bigger leaves so it was a nice surprise that they are smaller
it was really challanging to find some spots to put the orchids, i will definitely do a ton of fixation points for plants in my next build


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

got some more plants today


Peperomia nummularifolia
Nephrolepis spec. Panama
Asplenium spec. Südamerika
Microgramma reptans










and everything planted, didnt know where to put all the fern, so its really crowded on the ground


----------



## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Just a heads up, that _Nephrolepis_ (Probably just _N. exaltata_), gets pretty big, quick. At least 50-60cm (20-24") across. It also sends out rhizomes like there's no tomorrow


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

That is good to know. It was advertised as small/medium so i might have to talk with the seller about this. Thanks for the heads up


----------



## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

Great job with the build and also excellent job detailing the step by step process you took! Highly valuable


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

erikm said:


> Great job with the build and also excellent job detailing the step by step process you took! Highly valuable


thanks, im trying to give something back for the information i get from this forum and its amazing projects and people. it would be nice to be able to edit the first post so i could list all the mistakes i made and what worked out well so its all in one place and people could see it at one glance. but hey the way its now everybody can enjoy the whole story

there are some things i dont like so much at the moment with the plants but i guess i will give it some time to grow and work out what i want to change.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

heres a update on how it looks now compared to when it was planted


*01.10.2015* planted 1st batch









*05.10.2015* planted 2nd batch









*19.12.2015* ~2.5 month later












the bromelia got a awesome color after adding a 2nd beamswork lamp and also starts to grow a new one

















the orchid (platystele misera) almost died but shes growing quickly now and i think she blooms soon

















some creeping jew i added recently, i hope she grows down over the rock cliff on the left side like the Peperomia nummularifolia



































got some liver moss and some java moss today which i planted in a couple of spots









unfortunately oncidium meirax did not survive, i think it was because i watered a lot in the beginning to keep the cement wall wet, but i also dont had a good spot for her so maybe that was a problem as well


----------



## CMOK36 (Dec 18, 2015)

Nice setup - the background is just absolutely amazing!


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

CMOK36 said:


> Nice setup - the background is just absolutely amazing!


thanks, there was a lot of sweat and blood involved in building it (ok maybe not so much blood) and was a great learning experience, however i would do a couple of things differently next time, like not so much overhang, more crevices for plants and not going all to the top or at least not the whole width.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

heres a update

ther ferns have started to grow new leaves and do well, i thought a long time that they are not gona make it


















Peperomia nummularifolia/prostata is blooming on a couple of places
i got some new plats today but expected a lot smaller package, but the palm in there was about one meter high, which means she is probably not fitting into this tank


Gloxinella lindeniana
she is in pretty bad shape so i hope she will make it









Gloxinia sylvatica









Broadleaf lady palm 'Rhapis excelsa (M)'
way bigget than i hoped for








still planted a small one because i think it looks really nice









and pics before and after planting the new plants


----------



## frogpecker (Mar 20, 2013)

Very nice work! Keep the updates coming.


----------



## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

That umbellata looks great. Hows the growth?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

JonRich said:


> That umbellata looks great. Hows the growth?


yes lovely plant she grows really fast, and new sprouts are growing in a couple of places, i think i soon have to trim to keep it in check. 
i think she grew about 30-40 cm in lenght since i got her which is about 6 month ago


----------



## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

kromar said:


> yes lovely plant she grows really fast, and new sprouts are growing in a couple of places, i think i soon have to trim to keep it in check.
> i think she grew about 30-40 cm in lenght since i got her which is about 6 month ago


If you trim , keep me in mind.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

JonRich said:


> If you trim , keep me in mind.


Sure, if shipping distance allows it


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

finally the moss is doing well, even on the back wall should have gotten that stuff from the beginning


----------



## Triangulum (Jan 20, 2014)

Fantastic. From start to finish, thank you for sharing all your methods! Credit to you! 

Scott


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

had to wait a long time for warmer temperatures to order some plants and today i got a package with some new plants

heres what i got: (thanks bens-jungle.com for the outstanding service and packaging to survive the long trip!) hope its ok to mention them here:O
Pleurothallis allenii
Neoregelia rot gefleckt spec. Brasilien
Neoregelia spec. Brasilien
Neoregelia fireball rose klein
Neoregelia purple red

it was quite a challenge to put everything in place but im really happy with the final result









Pleurothallis allenii









Neoregelia rot gefleckt spec. Brasilien

















Neoregelia spec. Brasilien









Neoregelia purple red









Neoregelia fireball rose klein


















planted:


----------



## chefboyardee (May 31, 2013)

looks great! awesome growth!


----------



## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

looks great, what kind of tank are you using and what lighting?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

JaredJ said:


> looks great, what kind of tank are you using and what lighting?


I think its called a euro tank and for lights i use 2 beamslight led fixtures. Both are 6500 k but i run the one in the back on the low light mode. Ah and they have both the 0.5w leds. If you want more specific info i can check later.


----------



## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

Its definitely a Euro tank with the mesh in the front, where did you pick it up?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

JaredJ said:


> Its definitely a Euro tank with the mesh in the front, where did you pick it up?


i picked it up right next door, but then i live in europe but im not a big fan of this construction, not sure if its just mine that was not built with precision but it i think its not fly proof at all, there are some gaps on the doors and the mesh they used has quite big holes which i would guess that they are to big to keep flies in.
also i closed approximately 80% of the lower mesh opening to keep humidity above 80% without misting all day. so with these openings i would not recommend this for a high humidity tank.

maybe the concept works great on a bigger tank but for this size the openings are to big to hold humidity.

EDIT: hmm i wonder if there is a way to calculate how big the openings need to be for a certain humidity...


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

some more growth going on while im tinkering with my raspiviv to automate the climate.

a new mushroom showing up









some fern that needs id









and other fern that needs a id









gloxinia growing slow but steady and creating lots of pups









the new plants seem to like their new home, excited about this new growth


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

moved the bromeliad from the left side to the main cluster, i think it feels happier there










some cool effect that i got with the latest pictures


----------



## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

Nice tank, great job!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

Where did you find that moss mix? It looks awesome 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Damon Ryan said:


> Where did you find that moss mix? It looks awesome
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i acctually got most moss from a local aquarium store, i think it was mostly from dennerle Plant database | Dennerle
and one or two unknown mosses that survived from a epiweb moss mix

here the list of moss that i got:

liver moss (unknown name)
vesicularia ferriei
taxiphyllum barbieri
java moss (unknown name)


----------



## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

Oh so how did you apply it to your viv? Blend it up? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

yes i blended it up, but not too fine, it had pieces of a couple of mm lenght. it turned out this worked really well so i will continue using this method.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

got some more orchids, since the last ones did not do so well i got some lowland orchids which should cope a bit better with higher temperature. i hope they do better than the ones i had so far.

from left to right

Pleurothallis allenii
Pleurothallis (specklinia) corniculata
Pleurothallis costaricensis










and since i know everybody likes pics here are some more


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

hm seems the last pics are not working once more (kinda random if linked pics from google photos work) so here is the one with the new orchids again










the orchid area:










bromeliads are creating pups all over the place










a closer pic of the moss, this stuff is growing in really dense now and the other plants love grow on that stuff














and a front shot of yesterday:


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I love your viv! Compliments


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

rigel10 said:


> I love your viv! Compliments


thanks, i enjoy watching things grow only some inhabitants are missing at this point, but there is still a lot to learn on that front


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

a monthly update, things are growing well

gloxina is after a long time starting to grow bigger









broms

















moss from top 









fern growing out of top









some more shots













































the moss is growing like crazy and is taking over most of the wood and background, so im thinking of reorganizing/replacing some of the wood.
i also feel that the tank is missing something but the space is really limited to do a lot in there, so the planning has started for a bigger tank
the preferred size would be around 120cm high, 100cm width and 60cm+ deep i will most likely do a new thread to gather ideas before rushing into it, so i will add a link here when it begins


----------



## Jay2 (May 19, 2016)

Nice, do you currently have or plan on having an inhabitants?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Jay2 said:


> Nice, do you currently have or plan on having an inhabitants?


i dont have inhabitants at this point, since its my first viv i first wanted to get a good understanding how to make the plants thrive. im currently working a bit with the raspiviv setup from nate to control the climate and am quite happy with the results so far.
i would like to get some inhabitants in the future but i dont like the short feeding requirements. i also have zero experience with fly cultures so that would definitely be next on the things to study before getting some frogs or any other animal.

if i upgrade to a bigger tank i would like some inhabitants and would build the tank accordingly so it resembles the home of them as best as possible. 

so you see im not yet sure if there ever will be inhabitants or not


----------



## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

Looks amazing! How did you do that picture effect where it looks 3D? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Damon Ryan said:


> Looks amazing! How did you do that picture effect where it looks 3D?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


thanks! i take 2 pictures that are displaced a little bit in a direction (horizontal/vertical/depth) and then use a functionality of google photo to create a animation. its the same as a animated gif which you can most likely find apps for. et voila 3d effect on picture


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

a little update, i will get some new plants tomorrow so will do an other update soon

the moss continues to grow like crazy









some mushrooms are growing from time to time that give a nice contrast with their white color









some isopods chillin on top of the back wall 









my first orchid (Pleurothallis allenii) is going to bloom soon ::hurray::









and i removed a huge fern that was covering the whole middle section, i will most likely remove the big one on the right side as well for some smaller plants that i get tomorrow, but will see how that will look.
ah yes i also removed the creeping jew and marcgravia umbellata because i have some other idea what i want to do with the plants


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

got the new plants yesterday and was doing some planting

*heterocentron elegans*
she came in a bad state but recovered fast and looking beautiful right now, gona be interesting how well she grows.


























orchids (_left:_ *maxillaria sophronitis*, _right:_ *leptotes bicolor*)
these were in bad shape but look a lot happier now, but with orchids it always takes some time till it shows how they like it so i will see how it goes with these 2.










*selaginella kraussiana*
i expected this one to be a bit bigger:O its almost moss like looking if dense enoug, none the less i like it









*Pleurothallis allenii*
one of the older orchids blooms for the first time this is the first time for a orchid.









and some bigger shots of the viv

























enjoy


----------



## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Great tank! Compliments


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

rigel10 said:


> Great tank! Compliments


thanks a lot, i try to do the best with the limited space i have

i had to pull a bag of the java moss off the back wall, it was getting out of control and i think the shorter moss will work a lot better. the moss strands already got to about 10cm lenght











i replanted some of the smaller moss where i removed all the java stuff, so hope that grows well up there. kinda looks nice to see some of the background again for a change 
maybe i will see if i can keep some spots moss free so it adds some extra contrast to the tank


----------



## dentex (Apr 22, 2016)

Hello. Nice tank.

This is just to report that images don't show.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

dentex said:


> Hello. Nice tank.
> 
> This is just to report that images don't show.


hm strange, they show for me... then again ive always had problems linking images from google so maybe there is some permissions thing going on so you cant see them:/ since posts can not be edited theres nothing i can do against bad links


----------



## dentex (Apr 22, 2016)

Yeah, I see the long links; should be like you say, a permission issue. Thanks anyway.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

dentex said:


> Yeah, I see the long links; should be like you say, a permission issue. Thanks anyway.


can you see those?


----------



## dentex (Apr 22, 2016)

Yes! 
Fine, thanks.

Congratulations again for the beautiful tank.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

dentex said:


> Yes!
> Fine, thanks.
> 
> Congratulations again for the beautiful tank.


hm that is interresting, i just opend the images in a new tab and used the link i got there instead of the direct link to the image in the gallery.. now i just need to remember this for the next time

thanks for the feedback on the missing images


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

its been a while since my last update, so here are some pics from today



























2 bromeliads are dying after spawning a couple of young ones. is this something that happens when the pupps are not removed? i kinda like the look that it adds to the whole thing









heterocentron elegans grows yellowins shriveled leaves, i have not found out yet why this happens, so if you have any idea what can be the cause of this i would be happy to know.


















Microgramma reptans fern is spreading everywhere and creates tons of side shoots, it combines really nicely when its growing in moss and its leaves tend to stay small (3-4cm).


----------



## cap7 (Dec 4, 2016)

Very nice!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

Everything looks so lush and gorgeous in there! You chose a really nice variety of textures for your tank. 

Yes, it's normal for the mother plant to die after putting out a few pups. Some will hang on for a while, others go fairly soon after pupping.


----------



## deeloc (Jan 21, 2017)

I like how the background was done...The tank is amazing! Looks like a piece of the rainforest


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Hm do you still see the latest images? Looks like google took those down again... This bedding from them is total garbage, it only works when stars align ...


----------



## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

That's funny. Just this morning, the pics were there, and they are just little squares, now.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

If only this forum would allow edits of posts....


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

lets try this again


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

some broms are dying but everything else is doing really well, i want to trim some things out a little bit and take one plant out that i have no idea what it is.
had a bit a drier phase the last couple of weeks and most of the plants seemed to thrive more than in a wetter climate (mid 80% instead of mid 90%) this is mainly caused due to the new sensor not giving so many random spikes which triggered a short burst of mist. (which was kinda cool)


----------



## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

The tank looks fantastic

The plant in the foreground with the red flowers, what species is that? And more importantly, will you trade/sell me a cutting once it gets warmer?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Sammie said:


> The tank looks fantastic
> 
> The plant in the foreground with the red flowers, what species is that? And more importantly, will you trade/sell me a cutting once it gets warmer?


its *Gloxinia sylvatica* and she comes from Bolivia and Peru, as far as ive been able to find out from higher mountain regions.
Araflora, exotic flora & more - Sinningia sylvatica 'Seemannia')

if you are somewhere in Europe we can probably do some trading, the plant is shooting in all directions at the moment and i expect it to overgrow the tank this summer more reasons to upgrade to a bigger tank this year


----------



## opie (Jul 26, 2016)

Hey man that came out really good. I like how nature it looks. You did a really good job. I wish some of my builds came out like that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

opie said:


> Hey man that came out really good. I like how nature it looks. You did a really good job. I wish some of my builds came out like that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



thanks, it took quite a bit of growing and reorganizing plants to get where it is now, just give yours some time and do what you like. i also think it always looks a bit better on pictures than in real, so that might also give a bit a hyped impression^^

i removed a couple of plants and moved some around to lighten the tank up a bit from its overgrown state.
i keep all the plants i remove from the tank in a container in case i feel that i want to use them again

there is still the unknown fern that i want to remove eventually but at the moment have no place to keep it so i will let it grow a bit more, maybe it turns out that it works out great for a specific look at some point.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

i increased the misting a bit to get some green back into the moss and stimulate some more growth, so now its like 2 times a day about 15s misting and once a week or so i do a 1-2min misting.










the microgramma ferns are crawiling all over the tank and starts to look really nice in some places









and some other close up of a moss patch (getting super dense)


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

another update, its nice how the gloxinia starts to creep all over the ground area, this will be perfect for the big tank


----------



## illucam (Oct 27, 2017)

Looks fantastic! Though I think in some of the previous photos, when the moss was less intrusive, it looked better. There must be a happy medium! 
Very lush though, and the kind of viv most of us would love to have - have you decided on inhabitants?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

illucam said:


> Looks fantastic! Though I think in some of the previous photos, when the moss was less intrusive, it looked better. There must be a happy medium!
> Very lush though, and the kind of viv most of us would love to have - have you decided on inhabitants?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


yeah the moss is very intrusive and i started to grow some smaller/slower growing moss which at some point hopefully will dominate the moss areas but i also need a lot of wetness to grow that and therefore the fast-growing one is also spreading like crazy
but you can see that its yellowing quite a bit and i believe this is due to a reduction in the misting, so yea i try to find that sweet-spot but i also believe it varies through the yearly temperature/humidity changes we have here.

i pulled this out just after taking the last pics to make space for the smaller moss










as for the inhabitants, the main goal of this tank was to get a good understanding of the plant ecosystem and climate to be able to provide the best possible environment to potential inhabitants.
at this point i do not feel that i have the "time" to care about inhabitants since that is quite a bit of responsibility.
on the other hand i also plan to upgrade to a quite big sized tank and give this one to a friend who certainly would like to keep some frogs (he is also running a big aquarium so is already committed with the feeding and so on). 
and with the bigger tank i will certainly look at potential inhabitants again but probably would want to decide before building it what they would need.

maybe my contribution can be more on the habitat side of the hobby and i can inspire people to build a nice place for their frogs (or other animals) even if my tank might not be the best example of a natural frog habitat.

btw i also collect a progress album with only front pictures of the tank and there are quite a bit of interesting changes that happend visually by the different plants and amount of them and there are a couple of things that i just see from my own tank that i would try to combine in a new one.

https://goo.gl/photos/84QucKD2Fi1dA1CQ9


----------



## illucam (Oct 27, 2017)

kromar said:


> https://goo.gl/photos/84QucKD2Fi1dA1CQ9


So cool seeing the growth over the two years. A lucky friend to be getting that tank! 

How many species of plant do you reckon are in there now, and were you picking them specific to one particular region of the world or just going for what looked best? 

I hope if and when you get round to building this bigger tank you do a similar build log! You're right in saying it's inspiring others to make beautiful habitats for their inhabitants - certainly fuelled me up! What do you feel is the most significant thing you've learned over the whole process?

Plenty questions, I know -- sorry  

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Esmi (Oct 28, 2017)

Hi kromar,

I saw some posts from you on raspiviv. I am also trying to get a plant tank done before I try a "finalviv" for frogs. My goal is to automate with rasp and arduino as much as possible, too. How does the DHT22 works over the years, especially under that extreme humidity conditions?
And which lighting and misting system do you use, if I may ask?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

illucam said:


> So cool seeing the growth over the two years. A lucky friend to be getting that tank!
> 
> How many species of plant do you reckon are in there now, and were you picking them specific to one particular region of the world or just going for what looked best?
> 
> ...


hm i dont know at this point but surely around 20 different plants :O 
i have tried various small orchids but most of the ones from higher regions which like colder climate have not made it and only a couple of low land orchids (3 species) are left and doing pretty well.
then i think i have 4 different bromeliads which could do better, i enabled the 2nd led light and it seems to help with their growth. they for sure did not like the dryer conditions i had some time ago.
then i have about 5 different ferns...
hm this is getting difficult, let me see where my plant list is (probably out of date)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...FFYN60X7emcuaPgwIqIWvkcFCw/edit#gid=637453448

there you go i tried to stay with south American plants but have one unknown fern, a unknown foliage plant and a unknown begonia and there are most likely some plants on that list that i should remove since they did not make it. or did not make it from the wishlist to my tank
of course i had some kind of look in my mind that i tried to aim for but as many things that changes over time.

hmm the most significant thing i learned... there are many things i learned from this tank. 
i think the most important thing i learned when it comes to plants is that if its not "climate" controlled and with that i mean the temperatures its best to choose plants that fit in that specific "temperature" region that the tank will be due to the regional climate. that will for sure help the plants thrive and keeps me happy
other than that i certainly learned my lessons on the water feature which was a good attempt but a failure because it leaked into the soil and splashed like crazy with the high overhang. so i wouldn't try a poor man solution on the water feature again and certainly not in a small tank.





Esmi said:


> Hi kromar,
> 
> I saw some posts from you on raspiviv. I am also trying to get a plant tank done before I try a "finalviv" for frogs. My goal is to automate with rasp and arduino as much as possible, too. How does the DHT22 works over the years, especially under that extreme humidity conditions?
> And which lighting and misting system do you use, if I may ask?


hey thats great that you join the automation circle 
the DHT22 does a ok job, the only issue i have is that there are a LOT of spikes which need to be filtered to do dynamic weather control and i have not found the time to work on that yet, still in hardware phase but getting there eventually.
i think i am on the 3rd sensor by now but i think that is because of some residue buildup on the sensor over time and i still want to clean one and see if it gets back to normal operation after that.
i think there might be a way of measuring if the sensor gets bad by capturing the amount of bad readings, i had the impression that a couple of weeks before the first one failed i had a ton of spiking going on so that might be worth a try.

i have a SHT21 sensor that i will test at some point, i think it got a bit better high humidity resistance but that needs to be seen. 

here is a example of 1 day and you can see a couple of spikes, before the sensor failed it looked way worse.


----------



## Esmi (Oct 28, 2017)

very interesting, thanks kromar!

I will try to use 433 MHz radio Power plug sockets to control my devices for on/off state. I am a bit uncomfortable tinkering with relays  Any experiences with radio plug sockets?


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Esmi said:


> very interesting, thanks kromar!
> 
> I will try to use 433 MHz radio Power plug sockets to control my devices for on/off state. I am a bit uncomfortable tinkering with relays  Any experiences with radio plug sockets?


No i do not have any experience with that but nice idea, let me know how it turns out.
Btw im using a mistking system and 2 led lights from topdogseller on ebay, but only one running most of the time.
They seem to work quite nice for the plants but i had both powersupplies fail and needed to replace them, found some laptop power supplies in the companies electronic garbage that were brand new and work great so far.


Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

some update pics, i eradicated one of the ferns (Nephrolepis spec. Panama) who started to take over everything and adjusted the climate a bit to make it better suited for one of the orchids (Pleurothallis allenii). that requireed reducing the humidity.

The Gloxinia sylvatica isnt doing so well, im not sure if its winter, the reduced humidity or some kind of fungus that kills her off... or a bit of all three

the Pleurothallis costaricensis (orchid) in one of the pics next to the mist nozzle has started to push out some kind of "branches" which seems strange, maybe she is multiplying this way?

ps: is there a way to upload the full resolution in attached pics? they ended up with some bad resolution so i had to attach with google again so the images might disappear again:/


----------



## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

Wow, I remember back when you first started this build. It really has grown in and turned out nice. It looks like your epiphytic ferns have been doing really well too. Would you say that they prefer to be more wet, dry, or somewhere in between? Just curious as I should be getting a couple soon.


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

jarteta97 said:


> Wow, I remember back when you first started this build. It really has grown in and turned out nice. It looks like your epiphytic ferns have been doing really well too. Would you say that they prefer to be more wet, dry, or somewhere in between? Just curious as I should be getting a couple soon.



hmm i would say they dont really care or i do not see a big difference how they grow when i adapt the humidity. however the shoots tend to dry out when they grow towards a region that is quite dry, like the top opening or the tip of the branch in the middle of the tank. other than taht they thrive everywhere

i got these 2: Microgramma nitida and Microgramma reptans


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

i got a new lamp some time back since i did not like the old one to much and was also looking for a solution for my future upgrade. 
i was looking into plant grow lamps instead of terrarium lamps and found a real nice one that fits what i was looking for. and there are surprising crazy grow lamps on the market
https://www.migrolight.com/product/migro-100/
the lamp has 100w output can can be dimmed all the way down to about 10w and im running her at around 50% since i have her so quite a bit of headroom for the planned tank which you can see a concept below. with the strenght and the lens system it should be no problem to penetrate all the way down. 

ah yes the tiny one on the left is the size of my current tank and the right one what i have in mind.










first time i plugged her in it was like i was turning on a sun in my room haha it was on 100% and directed towards me
surprizingly its not blinding (not sure if thats a word) at all unless i look from below into the lamp.










this is a good shot where you can see how strong the shadows are compared to the illuminated regions, that is completely washed out with the old beamswork. i really like that it creates more distinct regions.









the lamp has quite a warm tone to it but its hard to see on most pictures. the first couple of days it was a bit strange, probably because most lamps are more on the blue side.
This picture shows the color a bit better i get when turning it all the way down in the evening.










daytime the plants started to grow quite a bit faster then before i believe and the broms turn really red now witht the new light. i will probably go into a wet season to see how that will affect the whole growth now. currently its rather on the dry side but everything except the moss seems to like it that way.




















got 2 new plants

*Selaginella erythropus* https://bens-jungle.com/navi.php?a=2494&lang=eng

i really like this red fern, it seems to be a slow grower which is nice and i am excited to see how she will develop. 









*Ficus scandens* https://bens-jungle.com/navi.php?a=87&lang=eng
all the way in the back on the wall a small survivor (had a shady spot that it did not like but now its growing


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

oh wow i did not realize its already been so long since i last posted an update:O

some come and some go...


The Pleurothallis allenii on the lower left side took a bit off since the last update, thanks again for the hints with the wet feet. That one really got her going (and the new light i guess)










i had to replant one of the small orchids (Pleurothallis costaricensis) because it was getting to wet as well with the moss around. 
I could spit her up into about 11 plants so she is now all over the tank
also the Red fern (Selaginella erythropus) really loves some bright and wet spots and is taking off as well.


----------



## Efciem (Nov 4, 2017)

It's really too bad 99% ofthe images don't load on this thread. Sounds like it could be a real informative build log


----------



## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

kromar said:


> got the new plants yesterday and was doing some planting


well this as come on a long way from the first photos to these
you done a fantastic job
just need you to come and do mine now you know what to do he he


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

Efciem said:


> It's really too bad 99% ofthe images don't load on this thread. Sounds like it could be a real informative build log


you can all pics over here: https://goo.gl/photos/vi3w3i1rEbQzcht26


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

ds51 said:


> well this as come on a long way from the first photos to these
> you done a fantastic job
> just need you to come and do mine now you know what to do he he


hehe thanks, i only had to watch, the plants did all the work
its been quite a journey, its very fascinating to see that even in such a small enclosure there are micro-climates where some plants thrive and some dont.
I started to think about ways to control this in a better way than its in the current tank.


----------



## oS3R0o (Aug 3, 2019)

kromar said:


> you can all pics over here: https://goo.gl/photos/vi3w3i1rEbQzcht26


Amazing pictures in your album, I thought it was a giant viv at first!


----------



## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

oS3R0o said:


> Amazing pictures in your album, I thought it was a giant viv at first!


haha i wish it was my giant build is still in my head, but i am thinking a lot bigger now, i dont see a reason why it cant/should not go from the floor to the ceiling one day i will build that one!


----------

