# short tongue syndrome



## audioandroid (Mar 13, 2005)

any advice on dealing with this? I researched the posts about it and read about keeping as humid as possible since the tongue is directly related to hydration. I’ve quarantined the frog in a tupperware sweater box with paper towel bottom. put plenty of dusted melonegaster in with it and a leaf for hiding. the frog simply shows little interest in food and when it does its tongue can't get the food. matter of fact I haven't seen it actually successfully get a fly. I think at this point the pedialyte drops may be the only thing keeping it going. It is a sub adult and I’m not sure how it’s made it this long. I’ve only had the frog a couple weeks. I’m thinking that during shipping it may have become dehydrated which has caused this and it's having difficulty recovering. I'm not sure what else could explain the age and now the problem. which also leads me to believe it can be corrected. However it seems to be at a critical point with its weight and i'm not sure how much longer it can hold on. Is it possible that this can be overcome? 

p.s. i've pretty much ruled out parasites due to the fact with that the frog will eat well yet lose weight in that situation, and this seems apparent that the frog can't catch the prey with its tongue when it tries.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

classic short tongue syndrome is often linked to insufficient vitamin A in the diet (as seen in multiple species of bufonids).

Ed


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Suggested treatment? I'm not even sure a vit-A heavy supplementation would do much good if the frog is having poor success eating.

I have a male azureus... female in his tank is doing fine, but he seems to be getting less and less coordinated over the past few weeks. I frequently see him lunge for a fly, miss... hold his mouth open with his tongue out for 2 or so seconds, and then not try again.

I've also seen him just sitting there with his mouth slightly open, like he was breathing through his mouth or something.

These guys are supplemented regularly with a 50/50 reptocal and herptivite (usually one supplement on alternating days, with a day off in between). I have had them about 4 months, and bought them as subadults. The female is showing no signs of this problem.

Sorry to hijack.
Josh


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Josh,

Tube feeding with a complete food like Feline Clinicare works well in these cases. If it is hypovitaminosis A then it will take awhile to reverse the symptoms as the inability to capture food is due to a change in the cells on the tongue and this change needs to be reversed. 


How old are your supplements? When did you buy them and where are they stored? This can be one of the problems but without checking the bone density of the frog to rule out "MBD", it is hard to provide even a real guess as to the cause. 



Ed


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## audioandroid (Mar 13, 2005)

how do you go about tube feeding? i get the idea, but sounds like it could be very stressfull on the frog force feeding it. plus in its weakened state i'd worry about hurting it. at this point it simply isn't eating and i'm seeing it waste away to nothing. i fear its days are numbered. matter of fact i haven't seen it eat since i've had it.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Yes it is stressful to the frog but so is starvation. Starvation is guarranteed to kill the frog while force feeding may save it. 

It works best if there are two people. One person restrains the frog and the second person opens the mouth (a credit card works great) and a small amount of the feline clinicare (or other supplement) is gently squirted into the back of the mouth (do not squirt into lungs) and the frog is allowed to close its mouth. The frog will typically swallow the food at that point. 

Ed


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## audioandroid (Mar 13, 2005)

ok...i'm going to try. what other suppliments can you use? anything you can find at a local petsmart?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

All I've ever used was the feline clinicare. 

Ed


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Call around to local vets - most will have it, and you don't need a prescription for it.


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Good thought on the age of the supplements. I replace them 2x a year, but they are stored in my fish/frog room, which is warm and humid. It would be a pain not to have my supplements near my tank, but I could keep them upstairs in the AC and then bring down a weeks-worth at a time, or something. I'm thinking this might just be a fluke, as more than a dozen other frogs have been doing fine.

Will keep you posted.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Depending on when the frog gets to eat could also have an impact on the nutrition. If it is one of the lower pecking order frogs then it may be feeding later than the other frogs when more of the supplement has been groomed off... (just throwing a thought out there). 

Ed


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

I had a group of 6 yellow back sub-adults in a 5g. Sex ratio was 5.1.0. At some point I noticed the female a little thin and was 'missing' flies during feeding. She made alot of attempts but probably connected about 50% of the time. 
I suspected competition was the problem (she was also a bit smaller then the males) so I seperated frogs into 3 sets of 2. Within a few days she appeared thiner then before and was still missing flies despite the fact that I was feeding more flies then usual. The male in with her was definately getting fatter. I then decided to move her into a container by herself and within a week she was fattening up and was not missing flies anymore.


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Followed the advice of several in this thread. I separated the male into his own sweater box. Lots of hiding places, dim light, always a few flies available. He is not even attempting to strike at flies anymore... just turning to look at them.

I bought new supplements, though I suspect the old ones were still good based on the good results with over a dozen other frogs.

I have been force feeding him twice per day for about a week now. I'm making a fruit fly/supplement/water paste and putting a small amount in the frogs mouth after carefully opening it with some pressure from my thumb and the end of a plant stick.

I then place the frog back in his sweater box, and he usually swallows after about 30 seconds. 

So far, still alive... but no signs of improvement.

Josh


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If it is due to hypovitaminosis of A then it will take a while to reverse the change to the cells. If it is due to a disruption of the calcium metabolism then the frog may never get better (but a necropsy would be required to confirm the diagnosis). 

Ed


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## Blort (Feb 5, 2005)

Ed,

Just curious about what supplementation procedures could prevent vitamin A deficiency before it gets critical since many reptile supplements don't have vitamin A and instead have beta carotine. Is this sufficient?

Thanks,

Marcos


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Marcos,

At this time, it is believed that most anurans can convert betacarotene to vitamin A but how effective thier ability to convert betacarotene is unknown (and appears to be lacking in some bufonids such as Atelopus and Bufo). Additionally ffs reared on standard media are totally lacking in vitamin A meaning that this is a potential source of problems such as seizures to possibly sls....

In herpetoculture community there is a common belief that vitamin A is a problem (which too much is but there are the same problems with too little) but some of the symptoms of hypo and hyper vitaminosis of A are the same leading to more confusion. This is also hard to determine which is the problem as the livers of the dart frogs are too small to analyze post mortum. 

I would use a supplement that lists a vitamin A activity ratio of 10 to 1 to 0.1 of A to D3 to E and supplies about 2000-10000 IU/kg diet dry matter. (From Mader's Reptile Medicine and Surgery). 

Ed


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## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Any news on your frog Audioandroid?


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## Ghassett (Feb 8, 2016)

Is emeraid carnivore care an acceptible substitute as well? Or are there other formulas out there that are designed specifically for insectivore species? And when you refer to tube feeding, is this really more of a generalized assist feeding/force feeding?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Ghassett said:


> Is emeraid carnivore care an acceptible substitute as well? Or are there other formulas out there that are designed specifically for insectivore species? And when you refer to tube feeding, is this really more of a generalized assist feeding/force feeding?


Frogs are pretty easy to tube feed as the path to the stomach is relatively easy to follow but this should be reserved only for animals that have progressed to the point that they cannot capture food. 

If they can still capture prey, then using the proper supplements can reverse the problem fairly easily. 

This oxbow product is what I've seen most recently suggested. 
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/products/type/detail?object=1609

Some comments 

Ed


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## coryf (Apr 27, 2016)

I too have a dart frog that appears to have short tongue syndrome. I have 3 azureus tincs and one of them is much skinner than the other 2 and misses flies more than half of the time. After doing research on STS and hypovitaminosis I immediately bought Repashy Vitamin A Plus. I cycled in the Repashy supplement into my existing vitamin supplementation cycle that consists of Repcal Calcium with Vitamin D and Repcal Herptivite. The frog showed no signs of improvement so I isolated him and increased the rate of supplementation with Repashy Vitamin A Plus. I saw very little improvement in his capture rate. He did put on some weight but that does not appear to be due to an improvement in STS but rather just not having to deal with the competition of the other 2 frogs. I'm not sure what to do now. I even contacted a local exotic vet but he was unwilling to see my frog. I'd greatly appreciate any help!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

You can have a deficiency of vitamin A in conjunction with another issue, in fact the vitamin A issue may be secondary to another problem. As a total hypothetical example, deformation of the bones that control the tongue from calcium deficiency reduces feeding success and this then contributes to the deficiency of vitamin A or any number of parasitic infections ... 

Keep in mind that a deficiency of vitamin A can result in a cascade of issues as vitamin A deficiency causes problems with the immune system, growth etc. You may need to find a vet who is willing to do a work up on the frog. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

When I see Ed's name as having made a post, I always read them...even though the OP er's thread was old, it still had good information--and Ed's suggestion to check out the Oxbow product was really interesting...but since it is recommended for carnivores, wonder whether the eating of FFs is enough of a "meat eater" description....


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