# Is my frogs Auratus "Birkhahn" ?



## Bent Jorgensen (Jul 18, 2008)

I bought these frogs as Auratus Birkhahn but i am in doubt

The parents






















The offsprings





















On this page I found som pictures and i think it looks like "Taboga" and one off the offsprings look like a 'Reticulated Tabago'. What do you think ?

www.tropical-experience.nl - Dendrobates auratus morphguide


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

The parents also look similar to green and bronze auratus


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## Jeremiah (Mar 1, 2008)

Check out:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/32893-ms-turquoise-bronze-pn-green-bronze-5.html

Page 5 shows the variability of their color.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I think from reading the green and bronze thread that it would be possible to get almost any type of offspring.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

Try matching them up here www.tropical-experience.nl - Dendrobates auratus morphguide
They do look more Hawaiian then birkhahn to me. But I’ve never seen a birkhahn in person before, and I’m no auratus expert. Another reason why I would guess at it being Hawaiian is because they are one of the more common auratus here in the states and they are known to throw reticulated patterns.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Judging by the use of Birkhahn - would it be a wild guess to say you are from the other side of the pond? Do you mind adding your location to your profile, because I actually think that might help in this discussion.

Looking at the coloring of your adults - there does seem to be a bronze sheen to the darker areas. 

Yes, it is possible for some auratus, especially some of the imports that have come in the last few years, to get some interesting offspring. I have even noticed this on successive generations of my green & bronze auratus when customers have shown me offspring of frogs I originally sold them. 

I have noticed less variation in coloring from my long term captive pairs of Costa Rican Auratus & Panamanian Green & Black 'Giant' auratus than any of the newer moprhs coming in. My 'Giants' aren't really that big, but have been around for quite some time, and were purchased from Steve Tarlton 6 + years ago. I am not sure of their age, but 9-10 years would be my guess & they are not imports. 

With this being said, your best bet is to go back to the person you purchased the frogs from to find additional information. See if they can shed some light on the origin. If they are tuely what they said - then the offspring should not be renamed & sold as a different morph - they would still be "Birkhahn" not anything else.

Hope that helps, and am very interested in hearing more about this morph.

Thanks,

Melis


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

I have a lone female that I'm pretty sure is a toboga island auratus that looks just like the parent pictures and the second offspring pic you gave, but I haven't seen anything like your first offspring picture. Unfortunately, however, it's not easy to say for sure what it is.


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

It's a tough call, if not impossible. To tell you the truth, from what I've seen the normal adult birkhahn adults look to be a lot lighter in the bronze areas. Although I'm sure there is a lot of variability with that, or they could simply just be young and not have fully developed colors yet. 

Taboga/Hawaii auratus do not usually have a true "black" color and it's more brown. Which can look like those frogs you posted. Also, they do throw out reticulated like someone else stated (and the one offspring you have). I am no expert in auratus, but I thought that only the T/H morph would throw reticulated. 

But again, it can be very hard to almost impossible to tell. Your best bet is what Melissa said and try and trace the lineage back. Good luck!


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

The "Birkhahn" auratus (sold here in the states as "Highland Bronze" from Sean Stewart) do have quite a bit of variation. In my group colors range from a bluish-turquoise to a pretty standard greenish color (the original group of 8 frogs collected in the wild had a large amount of variation from bluish to greenish). 

However, I have never seen them throw a reticulated pattern like that. The bronze also looks different...not as pale as the "Birkhahn" bronze tends to be. When I saw them I thought "Taboga" or "Hawaiian" auratus. Here is a photo of one of mine (a larger image of my avatar) and you can see what I mean by the shade of bronze: 100_5889 - Dendroboard Gallery

However, I agree with what's been said: basing and classifying what you have based on appearances alone is DANGEROUS and I would not recommend it. Talk to the person you received them from and get as much information as you can about their history (who they got them from, then who THEY got them from, etc.) and try to confirm as best you can what morph it is. Worst case scenario, assuming you have serious doubts as to their lineage and correct identification, I would keep them and enjoy them, but perhaps choose not to disperse any of the young into the hobby. Just my personal opinion.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

what were they sold to you as? that first offspring looks amazing.


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## Frank St (Mar 20, 2005)

Bent,

as the other folks did claim: These frogs are definitetly Tabogas! Adult frogs have a "deer brown" basic color and that will even ligthen up when becoming older. The pattern is a gold-green, as the Taboga auratus is the holotype of auratus (as described by Girard 1855) - therefore we Germans have the popular name "Goldbaumsteiger" which refers to the golden color.
Reticulated offspring is seen seldom when both parents are non reticulated, my wc frogs have 1 froglet with that pattern out of 100. Both reticulated parents produce reticulated offspring way more often. Froglets are black when going on land and become brown when getting pre-adult. So, forget about Birkhahn these are not, but anyway you hold the precious holotype auratus, what frog of this species could one desire more ,-)

Cheers
Frank


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

Frank St said:


> Bent,
> 
> as the other folks did claim: These frogs are definitetly Tabogas! Adult frogs have a "deer brown" basic color and that will even ligthen up when becoming older. The pattern is a gold-green, as the Taboga auratus is the holotype of auratus (as described by Girard 1855) - therefore we Germans have the popular name "Goldbaumsteiger" which refers to the golden color.
> Reticulated offspring is seen seldom when both parents are non reticulated, my wc frogs have 1 froglet with that pattern out of 100. Both reticulated parents produce reticulated offspring way more often. Froglets are black when going on land and become brown when getting pre-adult. So, forget about Birkhahn these are not, but anyway you hold the precious holotype auratus, what frog of this species could one desire more ,-)
> ...


I was wondering if you were going to get in on this post!


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## Frank St (Mar 20, 2005)

boogsawaste said:


> I was wondering if you were going to get in on this post!


Well hopefully that doesn´t mean you took my post as an offence..
Anyway, not to easy to get rid off me...
Here´s a pic showing a couple of 6 years old Taboga auratus, left side the male, you can see a nearly similar pattern to the frogs postes for id´ing...
So, really consider these frog to be the Taboga morph.

Regards,
Frank


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

Frank St said:


> Well hopefully that doesn´t mean you took my post as an offence..
> Anyway, not to easy to get rid off me...
> Here´s a pic showing a couple of 6 years old Taboga auratus, left side the male, you can see a nearly similar pattern to the frogs postes for id´ing...
> So, really consider these frog to be the Taboga morph.
> ...


No offense at all. I have seen you around and you seem to know your birkhann auratus, so I figured you would pop up here.


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