# Calcium Bentonite.



## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Hey Fellas.

I have been reading so much about the clay substrates and backgrounds and would really like to go the clay substrate route on my rack tanks.

I have looked around for Calcium bentonite, and over here it costs a bomb.

I am finding it is most commonly sold in little amounts for face masks and such, with a huge price tag.

Any pointers on how to get this cheaper would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Richie


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Look for cat litter that has no additives, only clay.


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Hiya mate.

I have looked around for some, keeping cats myself... cat litter is no stranger to me.

But I can say I have tried most cat litters and most if not all of the ones I have ever came across contain some fragrance or some unnatural additive etc.

I will keep my eyes peeled though... I am inquiring about some big bags of bentonite I have seen on ebay, I am hoping they are calcium bentonite rather than sodium... fingers crossed.

Richie


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

look for the cheap "natural" store/off brands of litter


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Not sure if you have these in Scotland, but check out a natural foods / organic grocery store. They should have what you are looking for. It should read all natural, unscented kitty litter in the title. Also there should be an ingredients list somewhere on the package. Here it will say 100% clay. When you mix it into mush in the water you may find some small hard pieces of quartz which is harmless. You may also be able to find some online and have it shipped to you. 

Also you can mix in some red art clay. You can get this at a pottery store in block or powdered form. 

For your substrate you will need something to help keep the clay from becoming an impenetrable wall that does not allow for microfauna or drainage. Even dry clay will turn to mush eventually. I personally like to mix in some infield conditioner (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/53565-infield-conditioner.html). 

Good luck finding it.


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

I have also found bentonite at brick yards before and I recently found out that my local brewer supply has it.


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

How much are you talking? I just bought 200 pounds for 20 bucks


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

I don't know if this is near you but if you roll down to where it says Bentonite for lining ponds

Other Aquatic Products - Viresco UK - Aquatic Weed Control and Horticultural Supplies


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Lance said:


> How much are you talking? I just bought 200 pounds for 20 bucks


Well take for example the BRILLAINT link Jeffr so kindly posted for me (Thanks alot mate) and check that... 25KG is about 90pounds and it costs £52 which is over $100.

Ebay is laden with folks selling tiny amounts of calcium bentonite and the odd larger bag of around 5kg for crazy high prices.

I will look more into the kitty litter route tonight, does kitty litter tend to be calc or sodium bentonite?

If someone could fill me in on the differences between calc and sodium bentonite id really appreciate it.

I know Calc bentonite comes already loaded with calcium hence the name... but how do you go about loading the sodium bentonite with calc?

Having already read through all the clay posts, these are the only questions I need to ask.

Cheers

Richie


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Cheers for all that info flapjaxx

I have checked around the food stores online in the UK and as I say its all tiny amounts for real high prices... seen as though all you lot seem to be getting huge amounts for pretty nice prices I thought id shop around a bit 

Richie


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

R1ch13 said:


> Well take for example the BRILLAINT link Jeffr so kindly posted for me (Thanks alot mate) and check that... 25KG is about 90pounds and it costs £52 which is over $100.
> 
> Ebay is laden with folks selling tiny amounts of calcium bentonite and the odd larger bag of around 5kg for crazy high prices.
> 
> ...



You can actually use the calcium you dust your flies with mixed in. Yeah sodium bentonite is expensive by you


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Really?

So if I was to get a hold of some cheap sodium bentonite I can actually use for instance Calcium ICB or other Calcium additive to load it with calcium.

I assume a fair amount would be needed, to get the amounts calcium bentonite would have.

Thats pretty cool, and never thought that would be possible.

I am looking into the koi clay side of things, and there are bags on ebay for not bad prices claiming it is calcium montmorillionite.

Cheers

Richie


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

R1ch13 said:


> Really?
> 
> So if I was to get a hold of some cheap sodium bentonite I can actually use for instance Calcium ICB or other Calcium additive to load it with calcium.
> 
> ...



if you look at Matts recipe in the ultimate clay base thread he is only using 1% calcium.


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

I was just searching for the post, when I noticed youd replied again.

I am going to refer to it right now.

Thanks for the help mate.

Regards,
Richie


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

See if you can find infield conditioner (aka calcined clay) through a cricket, football or rugby supply store or landscaper. It serves pretty much the same function as calcium bentonite and is what I'm using in my vivs. cost me $12 for 50 lbs.


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

I found this answer in the Clay based thread about sodium and calcium bentonite posted by Dendro Dave. Not sure if this really helps. 

Calcium bentonite is a useful adsorbent of ions in solution.[2][3] as well as fats and oils, being a main active ingredient of fuller's earth, probably one of the earliest industrial cleaning agents.[4] Calcium bentonite may be converted to sodium bentonite (termed sodium beneficiation or sodium activation) to exhibit many of sodium bentonite's properties by a process known as "ion exchange" (patented in 1935 by Germans U Hofmann and K Endell). Commonly this means adding 5-10% of a soluble sodium salt such as sodium carbonate to wet bentonite, mixing well, and allowing time for the ion exchange to take place and water to remove the exchanged calcium. [citation needed] Some properties, such as viscosity and fluid loss of suspensions, of sodium beneficiated calcium bentonite (or sodium activated bentonite) may not be fully equivalent to natural sodium bentonite.[5] For example, residual calcium carbonates (formed if exchanged cations are insufficiently removed) may result in inferior performance of the bentonite in geosynthetic liners.


I use calcium montmorillonite in my mixture as well. Its in powdered form so I just sprinkle it along the top of the substrate. Terra Pond Koi Clay


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

flapjax3000 said:


> I found this answer in the Clay based thread about sodium and calcium bentonite posted by Dendro Dave. Not sure if this really helps.
> 
> Calcium bentonite is a useful adsorbent of ions in solution.[2][3] as well as fats and oils, being a main active ingredient of fuller's earth, probably one of the earliest industrial cleaning agents.[4] Calcium bentonite may be converted to sodium bentonite (termed sodium beneficiation or sodium activation) to exhibit many of sodium bentonite's properties by a process known as "ion exchange" (patented in 1935 by Germans U Hofmann and K Endell). Commonly this means adding 5-10% of a soluble sodium salt such as sodium carbonate to wet bentonite, mixing well, and allowing time for the ion exchange to take place and water to remove the exchanged calcium. [citation needed] Some properties, such as viscosity and fluid loss of suspensions, of sodium beneficiated calcium bentonite (or sodium activated bentonite) may not be fully equivalent to natural sodium bentonite.[5] For example, residual calcium carbonates (formed if exchanged cations are insufficiently removed) may result in inferior performance of the bentonite in geosynthetic liners.
> 
> ...


Now that there is separate thread now about it, I'll note here that in my personal experience calcium like from hard water or from a supplement tends to kill moss. 

I do not know if the Bentonite form though would be as detrimental to them.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Typically anything labeled generically "bentonite" and the kitty litter runs as sodium bentonite, not calcium bentonite.

By the way, the infield conditioner is primarily slate and shale. I believe it holds its structure rather well which is great for the microfauna, but I don't believe it leaves the nutrients on the microfauna which will benefit the frogs like some of the other clays are supposed to....


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Infield conditioner is a hardened calcined clay product. I don't think it really has any calcium benefits, but it does help with drainage and spacing. I mix it in with the bentonite and red art clay to help give the substrate some structure.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Infield conditioner is a calcined (fired/heat hardened) clay product. It is not as calcined as say a pottery mug which allows a percentage of it to break down over time. It does have the ability to pick up and release ions but I haven't seen an analysis on this as of yet.. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendro Dave said:


> Now that there is separate thread now about it, I'll note here that in my personal experience calcium like from hard water or from a supplement tends to kill moss.
> 
> I do not know if the Bentonite form though would be as detrimental to them.


This is the current crop of moss growing on the test enclosure that has a calcium bentonite/peat substrate and drip wall. I had a wider variety but I lost several types/species when I drought stress tested the enclosure by allowing it to dry out for over 3 months (three months drip wall shut off and no water added to enclosure). It has been up and running again for less than 3 months..

It is the same tank with the background posted in this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/33471-red-clay-substrate.html


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## flapjax3000 (Jul 4, 2009)

Sorry for the hijack, Ed what type of moss is that in your enclosure?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ed said:


> This is the current crop of moss growing on the test enclosure that has a calcium bentonite/peat substrate and drip wall. I had a wider variety but I lost several types/species when I drought stress tested the enclosure by allowing it to dry out for over 3 months (three months drip wall shut off and no water added to enclosure). It has been up and running again for less than 3 months..
> 
> It is the same tank with the background posted in this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/33471-red-clay-substrate.html


Excellent Ed, can you give us the rough percentage of bentonite used? I saw where someone else used 1%.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It was at least 50% calcium bentonite. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

flapjax3000 said:


> Sorry for the hijack, Ed what type of moss is that in your enclosure?


I haven't tried to figure it out. It either grew out of the osmunda fiber or the peat mixed into the clay, not sure which, I've had a lot of spontaneous mosses grow in enclosures provided I used a strong light source (that tank is a 29 gallon tank, and it has over 110 watts of PC on it). 

Ed


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Hello Fellas.

What a brilliant amount of stuff for me to read after getting home from my weekend out.

Really appreciate it.

The bag of bentonite I found on ebay has turned out to be calcium bentonite according to the seller, 5kg for £12 which is by far the cheapest I have seen.

I am going to buy some next week once I get the money for the painting I sold at the college end of year show the other night.

Now, I have read Matts recipes etc, but if you are using calcium bentonite as the main component of the substrate, is there any need to additionally charge it with calcium?

I assume you will not have to as the calcium level is expectantly pretty high?

This infield conditioner alot of you guys speak of is proving very hard to find over here.

I want to keep the mix as simple as possible and am planning on using mainly calc bentonite and possibly some Montmorillionite clay as I have found some very cheap on ebay.

Thanks alot

Richie


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

R1ch13 said:


> Hello Fellas.
> 
> What a brilliant amount of stuff for me to read after getting home from my weekend out.
> 
> ...



If you want to keep it simple look at Brents recipe in the same thread. Less ingredients


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