# Just another rant



## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

Lately my fruit fly situation has gone from troublesome to down right caustic .As stated in an earlier rant ,outside sources have left me yet again seeking alternatives .Black mold has destroyed too many cultures for the past few months.And the cultures that develop to the pupae stage fall way to short for the shear number of pupae that are visible .My inspections don't seem to find any mite issues .I have seen the past few months posts regarding mold issues so evidently I am not the only one on that train .I've virtually given up on the Melos for the cultures I have had shipped have way too many fliers ( don't these people even realize)I never reuse cups .my media is my own and the methods the same the cultures are stored in the same manner and place for four years now so i imagine there would be no environmental concerns .I do use mold inhibitors ( vinegar, honey )I could rant on forever but I wont.So thanks for reading this .


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I have had the very rare occasion of Black Mold. I'd immediately remove the affected cultures from the rest of my cultures.

If this is happening to you from multiple sources of ffs - it sounds like it might be the conditions where you keep the ffs rather than the source?

Do you keep all of your cultures together? I grouped mine by date of creation. Grouped together in a small box - not physically touching other boxes (that one is more for mites than mold).

Just a few things I've learned over time. Hopefully you can get your solved.

s


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I quit using vinegar in favor of Methyl Paraben many years ago and have never seen a mold issue since.
Doug


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Scott said:


> I have had the very rare occasion of Black Mold. I'd immediately remove the affected cultures from the rest of my cultures.
> 
> If this is happening to you from multiple sources of ffs - it sounds like it might be the conditions where you keep the ffs rather than the source?
> 
> ...


Agreed. I don't mess with mold. Doesn't matter what kind, it gets frozen then the stuff gets taken out and cleaned with soap. Then air dryed away from the other cultures.

I also use vinegar and have had only just that one that I just talked about ever get mold. 

I'm sure you already know this, but unless the mels are wingless even the flightless still hop to an extent. Just making sure you don't open up a culture and see one "fly" to an extent and just trash it, when they are just hopping.

I hope this can get fixed, I have no issues with cultures. Make them, put them on mite paper and wait.


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## siples (Aug 14, 2004)

I have had the same issues with my cultures as of late, no mold, just a major amount of pupating, no hatching. I keep mine in boxes and spray the inside of the box with mite spray, and do do periodically. Temps around 76 degrees, and I make my own media which has always worked fine, and inspection doesn't show mites, what the hell is going on?


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

interesting ... I've only had mold issues when trying out oatmeal as a medium ... other than that I don't have any mold issues. R u using flys from the moldy cultures to start newer cultures? Bc if so, its possible that the flys r carrying the mold spores in with them.

Also, try mixing new flys with older flys when starting new cultures to diversify the genetics of ur flies.
I've been doing this and have noticed my cultures r still producing well into 7/8weeks to the point that I was getting mites bc I didn't want to waste all those flys/larvae.

I add a pinch of yeast into my water along w/ apple vinegar and have had no issues w/ mold ...


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Start w/ more flies so that the larvae churn up the media before the mold takes hold. You may produce too many flies but better too many than not enough. Also check to see if your temps have dropped where you keep your cultures to see if that is slowing them down. I never use mold inhibitors or mite powders, sprays or strips and haven't had problems w/ mites or mold in years.
Also it could be your cultures are too dry. If your somewhere cold and have forced air heat it is much drier in the winter than summer and they may need more water to start. If your having problems w/ melanogaster then don't try hydei. They take longer to start and are more susceptible to mold w/ the longer time before enough larvae churn up the media.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

To build a little onto what Scott said, when I've had to deal with mold issues, the best cure was segregation of the moldy cultures, and restaring with fresh FFs from a new, clean source. It's possible to work through mold problems without introducing new FF stock, but easier to just restart IMO. Otherwise the mold and spores will follow just along with the FFs as you make new cultures.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Allyn,

I have found that almost all issues with my ff cultures have been solved by microwaving the completed cultures for several minutes before adding the ffs and yeast. The excelsior carries a lot of spores on it and the microwaving helps to sterilize any microbes that came in with it.

I think you'll be happy if you try this method.

Take care, Richard.


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks everyone who has so far responded ,this has been an frustrating six months I'll take in to account all suggestions.!!!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Have you tried mixing two "lines" of flies? In theory it could strengthen the gene pool and lead to more production. We inbreed our flies like crazy so this may help. 

This is just a theory of mine so someone else can chime in and tell me if this will work that would be great.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

^
Listen to Richard 

This works....and toss out your excelsior batch if you are using it. I've had mold spores in large batches before....and the entire batch becomes 'toxic' if you will....

Try microwaving the media, and fresh coffee filters kept in ziplock bags.....


Shawn


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Do this if you're interested in having a house full of flying fruit flies!

s


Mitch said:


> Have you tried mixing two "lines" of flies? In theory it could strengthen the gene pool and lead to more production. We inbreed our flies like crazy so this may help.
> 
> This is just a theory of mine so someone else can chime in and tell me if this will work that would be great.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Scott said:


> Do this if you're interested in having a house full of flying fruit flies!
> 
> s


Haha, never mind, I guess my theory was wrong .


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

The way I took it I thought he meant taking the same type of fly variant, but from multiple sources. This would cause flight-enabled flies to develope?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I'd never do it. You never know mutations each individual batch of a line have developed.

Crossing those possible mutations with each other is asking for flyers.

For the record - up until four months ago, I had the SAME line of fruit flies for 15 years. 

No kidding.

s


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

Wow that's a massive amount of time. Longer then I've been alive.

Oh. Note taken. I would've never guessed.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Mitch said:


> Have you tried mixing two "lines" of flies? In theory it could strengthen the gene pool and lead to more production. We inbreed our flies like crazy so this may help.
> 
> This is just a theory of mine so someone else can chime in and tell me if this will work that would be great.


Breeding curly wing and wingless mels I wouldn't attempt, but Hydei and wingless mels or Hydei and the other kinds out there would work.

So you were kinda right.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Scott said:


> For the record - up until four months ago, I had the SAME line of fruit flies for 15 years.
> 
> s


Hey Scott

When you make your cultures I'm assuming that you take flys from multiple cultures to avoid inbreeding. I do, but it's not something I see written about very much.


If I make 24 cultures, I will take flys from at least a dozen bloomimg cultures. I toss in a few older ones as well. Mix the flys all together and then add them to the new cultures.

I don't think you could accomplish this if you were doing 2 cultures a week. I think you need a large number of cultures going. We make 45/week.

Your thoughts Scott?

PS...we micowave our cultures as well. 45 seconds each/zero mold. The whole cup goes in, excelsior, lid and all.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> Hey Scott
> 
> When you make your cultures I'm assuming that you take flys from multiple cultures to avoid inbreeding. I do, but it's not something I see written about very much.
> 
> ...


I do this too. I don't know if it does anything, but I do it.


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks again everyone .The microwave tactic I've not tied yet I will include the excelsior in the micro as well.The excelsior has not been kept in the most ideal conditions but i have to much of it to discard (3/4 of a 29lb bale) so I'll try to salvage the remaining if possible.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Allyn Loring said:


> Thanks again everyone .The microwave tactic I've not tied yet I will include the excelsior in the micro as well.The excelsior has not been kept in the most ideal conditions but i have to much of it to discard (3/4 of a 29lb bale) so I'll try to salvage the remaining if possible.


Where did you get the bale from? I need to buy a big amount of it in the future.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Don't go wasting excelsior before you try adding more water and more flies. I have had mold of all sorts before and I'd check for drying or too few flies before wasting materials. If you want, try a culture w/out excelsior in it first and see if you get mold.
Or send the excelsior to me, Im sure I can get it to work


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

packer43064 said:


> Where did you get the bale from? I need to buy a big amount of it in the future.


Papermart!!!


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

Woodsman said:


> ...The excelsior carries a lot of spores on it and the microwaving helps to sterilize any microbes that came in with it... Richard.


This is one the reasons I changed to coffee filters.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I used to use coffee filters, but now i use toilet paper rolls & i am happy with the results ... there was a discussion about it at the following link ... check it out

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...h-ff-culture-mix-have-before-adding-them.html


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

pl259 said:


> This is one the reasons I changed to coffee filters.


Bingo.

Coffee filters are the way to go. No longer have mold problems and no noticeable difference in production.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Gamble said:


> I used to use coffee filters, but now i use toilet paper rolls & i am happy with the results ... there was a discussion about it at the following link ... check it out
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...h-ff-culture-mix-have-before-adding-them.html


I've started to use these for my cultures. I wouldn't sell them that way unless someone wants them that way of course. For my cultures, anything is a go for me. Excelsior is my #1 use, but if I'm running low or haven't ordered any or feeling frisky I'll use the toilet paper rolls or paper rolls cut in half or coffee filters.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

packer43064 said:


> I've started to use these for my cultures. I wouldn't sell them that way unless someone wants them that way of course. For my cultures, anything is a go for me. Excelsior is my #1 use, but if I'm running low or haven't ordered any or feeling frisky I'll use the toilet paper rolls or paper rolls cut in half or coffee filters.


How do u like them compared to the other?
I just have them more readily available and technically theyre "free" lol ... i just hate excelsior ... (as per our convo before at the link)


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Nope. In fact I've done pretty much the opposite. If it seems I have one or two particular cultures outproducing the others in a batch - I use them to seed all of the new batch.

Right/wrong - I do not know. I just know that I had the same line of "gliders" for about 15 years straight. The occasional culture might turn in to flyers, but I never lost more than one or two a time (and only rarely).

I likely don't need that line any longer (I have been out of frogs for about 4 months, I'll be back in frogs in about 5 weeks) - but I'd track them down if I did. Definitely a good line.

s


frogfreak said:


> Hey Scott
> 
> When you make your cultures I'm assuming that you take flys from multiple cultures to avoid inbreeding. I do, but it's not something I see written about very much.
> 
> ...


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Gamble said:


> How do u like them compared to the other?
> I just have them more readily available and technically theyre "free" lol ... i just hate excelsior ... (as per our convo before at the link)



It worked pretty much like in your pictures. There seemed to be more cases, but it's hard to even tell how much there are near the bottom with the excelsior.

I'm going to offer toilet paper rolls as an option for the media to fly on when I start selling cultures. 

Were saving the toilet paper rolls now!


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

packer43064 said:


> It worked pretty much like in your pictures. There seemed to be more cases, but it's hard to even tell how much there are near the bottom with the excelsior.
> 
> I'm going to offer toilet paper rolls as an option for the media to fly on when I start selling cultures.
> 
> Were saving the toilet paper rolls now!


Lol me too! I gotta whole closet full of em. The wife is starting to complain!


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

Gamble said:


> Lol me too! I gotta whole closet full of em. The wife is starting to complain!


The GF just stared at me when I told her about it.  I have like 50 if that. It's a start!!!!


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