# Power mix FF culture kills my FF



## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Can someone tell me what about this recipe kills all my flies repeatedly?

Boil:
1 C. Water
1 C. Vinegar
1/8 C. molasses
1/2 frozen grape juice
2 ripe bananas

add 2/3 C. Brewers yeast
1 C. potato flakes
Let cool. Add 2" to each jar.
Sprinkle w/ bakers yeast

Tried this 'Power Mix' twice and all flies die within 3 days in these cultures.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

First, you need to double the water and vinegar


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

my mix is a dry mix so the only thing i add to it when its time to make the cultures is boiling water... have you tried subtrating certaint things.. this might only be fixed through trial and error... if this mix isnt that important to you maybe trying a different mix would be better?


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

I just want to know what would KILL the flies when added to it? Can't understand why that would happen.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

First, you need to double the water and vinegar


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

ChrisK said:


> First, you need to double the water and vinegar


I saw your previous post. I don't think a dryer culture would kills the flies. Plus, it was the right consistency.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

You also left out the malt o meal


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

I was told it wasn't that important. I don't think omitting it kills them. It's not about making an exact recipe. Again, was wanting to know why the flies DIED.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

To tell you the truth that recipe produces an obscene amount of flies for me and everyone I know who does it right, if you're doing it differently and it's killing your flies, and you're the only one who is getting their flies killed by it, the only recommendation would be to do it the same way as people who don't get their flies killed by it, otherwise one of your ingredients is toxic.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Fair enough, i'll try again. 
Wonder what the toxic aspect to what I did was.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you are adding insufficient levels of water to the mix then the ingredients are going to be much more concentrated. This reduces the level of water availability to the flies and kills them. Think of it this way, people can drink water with some salt in it but if the level of salt gets too high, then they start having problems with drinking it and if it gets a little higher in concentration it kills them. 

Ed


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## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

i also had a issue of letting the mix cool down ( heat mine up ) and thus the condensation would build up and kill the flies . not all of them obviosly . i used to use that mix except i would sub some tato flakes for less banana as the banana would make it go bad to much , Also to much viineager ive seen it have a adverse effect on flies.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Search for the original recipe (should be on doyle's dart den or something like that).
What you listed is varied from the original.
Did you let the cultures stand a while after adding the yeast? The original recipe says to add the flies the next day after adding the yeast, and there is a reason for that.


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

I use this mix as well and have never had my flies commit suicide. I have substituted ingredients that would boost the production and also the quality of the flies and maggots. If anything Betta id boost the water also, and do wait 24 hrs before adding flies.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Yes I waited 24 hrs.
I guess the concentration without the extra water/vinegar was the culprit.
I don't know where to get Malt O Meal, can I substitute that with something?


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah look up the ingredients for malt o meal online and just get something similar like cream of wheat or farina


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## Lance (Sep 8, 2008)

I use cream of wheat in substitute for the Malt of meal.


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Lance said:


> I use cream of wheat in substitute for the Malt of meal.


Cool. THAT I can get.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

If there's a Target near you, they always carry Malt o Meal


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

ChrisK said:


> If there's a Target near you, they always carry Malt o Meal


We don't have Target here in Canada. Does Costco work?


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## jgibeau (Aug 19, 2008)

Something else to consider as a possible fly killing culprit - Ventilation. I have used that recipe before, and the combination of it all seems to produce a really high level of Carbon Dioxide, really fast. If you are using something fairly airtight, like a heavy foam, or are using a heavy foam over a small hole, this could be a problem. 

Sorry for problems you are having, and sorry for people on here not trying to help you, and instead just saying "you are doing it wrong."

<That was unnecessary, Catfur>


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks guys!
Ventilation shouldn't have been a prob since I let it sit 24hrs 1st and use the Polyfabric lids. I guess just by using 1/2 proper amt. of liquid it was too concentrated.
I'll let you know if the next batch works.


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

Is the mixture "hot" when you add the flies?


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## VancouverBetta (Sep 25, 2009)

Freeradical53 said:


> Is the mixture "hot" when you add the flies?


No, like I said, I wait 24hrs before adding the flies.

Just checked a simplified culture I made on the 29th of just flakes, water, vinegar, powder sugar, and yeast. Almost all the flies died in that one too! WTF??

The 'proper' new Power Mix cultures I made a week ago however still look good but see no maggots yet at all.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

i use the pre made stuff. but i have yet to put in any vineger to the mix. one thing is i don't like the smell. i tried the power mix once, but did fudge the ingrediants. got black mold in it so i didn't use the recipe again.


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## GSXR_MURRHEE (Sep 16, 2006)

How much baker's yeast are you sprinkling on there? If I remember right, using too much can kill off a culture.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

pa.walt said:


> i use the pre made stuff. but i have yet to put in any vineger to the mix. one thing is i don't like the smell. i tried the power mix once, but did fudge the ingrediants. got black mold in it so i didn't use the recipe again.


In order to use a recipe again, you must first use the recipe  (and not "fudge" it)
Sorry, couldn't resist.

To the OP:
How many flies are you adding to innoculate the culture?

Every now and then, if I put way too many flies in to start a culture (enough to cover the media completely) I sometimes have lots of flies end up dieing early, but still usually have enough stay alive to start the culture.

Is there condensation on the inside of the culture cup? Where are the flies when you find them dead?

I pay alot of attention to this, flies can and will drown in small amounts of condesation, and also if the surface of the media is too wet (any standing water of any depth is cause for suspect).

I don't think I seen a mention of what kind of temps you keep your culture attempts in...how are they?

Are you using excelsior, coffee filters, something else,. or nothing for your maggots to pupate on?

I'll give you a rundown of how I've been making my power mix for the last 6 or so years.

Cook ingredients as per the recipe, if you are just starting, or having problems, follow the recipe as close as possible. 
In each plastic, 32 oz culture container (with the poly lids) I put 2/3 of a cup of the complete, still hot mix.
Then I let it cool...to 100F or less.

Then I add 30-50 grains of yeast (some have reported problems when using alot more)

Then I let the cultures sit overnight in a warm (room temp or a hair higher) area.

Then I add flies, not too many, but not too few, when you put them in, if they completely block your view of the media, (in my experience) it's too many, and many of them will die. 

Then I put them in an area that is room temp, slightly ventilated, but not drafty. 

Then I wait till I see maggots (8 days or so after innoculation) and when I see them, I add my excelsior...up to almost the top of the cup, and give the excelsior a couple sprays of water to moisten it up a bit, and encourage the maggots to climb into the excelsior...the mist is non-essential, but if you do it right, it brings production up...do it wrong (spray too much) and you will ruin the culture.
The reason I don't add the excelsior right away is that someone informed me that it helps reduce mites if you don't add the excelsior right away.

Hope some of this helps you...


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