# Ants Nesting in Tank?



## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I'm curious to know if any of you have experienced the misfortune of having an ant nest in your enclosure(s). That's right, not just "a few ants running around" but an actual nest...

I suspect this might be happening with sugar ants (odorous house ants) in my Variabilis tank. I always see them on top of the tank (and several in there as well), but have never seen one heading back to a nest or other point of entry. I have liquid traps set up everywhere that seem like a decent entry point, but the traps are vacant. 

I even removed my feeding stations, but all that's done is make the ants chase the springtails around and hunt my flies. (That only started yesterday, the stations have been gone for nearly 2 weeks and I think the ants are getting desperate). I have not seen them carrying larvae around.

I could dry-ice the tank, but my isopods took a long time to proliferate...And I don't like the idea of starting over. Any thoughts?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Are you sure they are odorous house ants and not another pest species like pharoah ants (Monomorium pharaonis)? I haven't the odorous house ants invade my fly cultures or enclosures but I have had issues with the pharoah ants at my old job. 

A simple test to make sure they are living in a certain enclosure is to wrap the tank with double sided tape around any potential entrances. This will keep them inside or outside of the tank so you can look for the actual source of the ants. 

If they aren't targeting the sweet liquid baits, I would suggest considering that it may be a different species. 


some comments 

Ed


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Thank you very much for weighing in, Ed. I am 100% sure that they are odorous house ants, having seen images of the species on Google, as well as having been ID'd from a local, experienced frogger who came to visit me. 

They haven't gone near my fly cultures, they seem attracted to my tank for some reason. I blame myself--I had banana feeding stations...That's probably what initially attracted them.

I just checked the trap closest to my tank, and it looks like there's about 15 or so of the little offenders in there. I've been trying to seal up the tank, but there are a few tiny holes due to the frame it's sitting in.


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

I had the same problem when I was using banana feeding stations in my variablis tank. Mine are in an old aquarium and I saw them on the lip that the glass rests on top very often. I removed the feeding stations and used hydrogen peroxide to wipe down the top, sides and especially the lip where I saw them the most in an effort to remove the ant's scent trail. After that, I just let the frogs take care of anything moving in the tank. It didn't take long and I haven't seen ants near the tanks since then.


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

chillplants said:


> I had the same problem when I was using banana feeding stations in my variablis tank. Mine are in an old aquarium and I saw them on the lip that the glass rests on top very often. I removed the feeding stations and used hydrogen peroxide to wipe down the top, sides and especially the lip where I saw them the most in an effort to remove the ant's scent trail. After that, I just let the frogs take care of anything moving in the tank. It didn't take long and I haven't seen ants near the tanks since then.


Thank you very much! Your problem (and tank setup) match mine precisely. I guess I'll be getting a fresh bottle of hydrogen peroxide.


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## Rgman87 (Nov 9, 2015)

Wont the frogs just eat any ants that get in their tank?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Yes.

Unless the ants eat the frogs first.

s


Rgman87 said:


> Wont the frogs just eat any ants that get in their tank?


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Yes, break the tank completely down and start over. The ants will end up killing your frogs. They'll have plenty of food and there will just be more and more of them. 

Best,

Chuck


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

wow...that's pretty cold...so you're saying that it is hopeless to eliminate the ants before the ants eliminate the frogs?????


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Maybe.

Maybe not.

YOU want to gamble your frogs on it?

I wouldn't.

s


Judy S said:


> wow...that's pretty cold...so you're saying that it is hopeless to eliminate the ants before the ants eliminate the frogs?????


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Will I have to re-bleach my plants? Or will soaking them overnight be enough? (I've heard that ants hate being surrounded by water, and hopefully the water will remove their scent as well?)


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

guess my question invited the response from Scott... My question should have been elaborated on--would it be possible to remove the frogs temporarily and treat the vivarium with something to eliminate the ants and eventually put the frogs back??

Would CO2 work to eliminate them???


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Not if the scent trail remains. (Which I've been wiping down daily). CO2 won't erase pheromones.

Found some more dead ants today, and the spot in the tank where they hang out is empty. Maybe there were fewer than I thought.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Rgman87 said:


> Wont the frogs just eat any ants that get in their tank?


The correct answer is maybe. While these frogs are well known to eat ants, that doesn't mean they eat all ants of the right size. There are a lot of ants they will not eat and some of them can pose a risk to the frogs ... 

one of the groups that it taken by dart frogs are the formicine ants see for example 

Saporito, Ralph A., et al. "Formicine ants: an arthropod source for the pumiliotoxin alkaloids of dendrobatid poison frogs." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 101.21 (2004): 8045-8050.


some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Jjl said:


> Not if the scent trail remains. (Which I've been wiping down daily). CO2 won't erase pheromones.
> 
> Found some more dead ants today, and the spot in the tank where they hang out is empty. Maybe there were fewer than I thought.


Alcohol would be much better for removing scent trails. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

so at this point...is the vivarium able to be made ant proof???


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Not very easily. It's an old aquarium with several awkwardly-positioned holes and slits that I can't cover very well. Currently trying the best I can with tape and plastic wrap. The lid (Marineland) also has some tiny openings in its glass hinge. I'll have to try dabbing some silicone drops in the holes.


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## Alphonsus (Apr 10, 2015)

There are 2 things that you can do. The first is co2 bombing it. Remove the frog and setup a temporary tank which will be for a month. Then make sure you seal the whole tank. Tape is usually use for this method. In order to make the bomb all you need is dry ice(you can get it at a local ice shop. Put it in a dish and add water. Close of the door. Leave it overnight and repeat after 1-2 weeks to kill of any pest that was in-egg. This is usually the last method and you must take precaution to not get dry ice on you. The second method will be to completely dump your tank. Put any plants or objects that you do want in a container then dump the rest in a trash bag and close it tight. You can use different method to clean the plants. Good Luck


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## RabidSimian (Sep 25, 2015)

One solution that may help keep ants out could be petroleum jelly or something similar. Check a Roach forum or caresheet for brands to keep climbing roaches from escaping and they should know nontoxic brands. You'd have to line the outside of your tank with a thin layer. This can be done at the base of the tank.

I've also read reports that freshly cracked black pepper acts as a repellent for some ants and may help if placed around your tank with a bit of olive oil to help it adhere to a surface. I'm not sure how well it will work, but I utilized it one year in a crack ants were using to get into my house and it seemed to work well. 

If ants become far too persistent even after you take the more drastic approach of rebuilding your tank and they return I've seen facilities use a moat technique. This one zoo had a back area where their extra frogs and bugs were kept. Due to native ants and their massive tropical ant colony having a crack somewhere ants kept getting into enclosures. So they placed the smaller tanks in trays, raised them up on PVC pipe and added water with a bit of dish soap. The tank was above the water line and the soap reduced the surface tension so any ants would immediately drown instead of skimming across the water. It's not a very sightly approach, but helps keep unwanted ants out that they couldn't keep under control.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Scott said:


> Yes.
> 
> Unless the ants eat the frogs first.
> 
> s


I came home from vacation to find ants had infested one of my tanks once. There had been two frogs in there when I left. I came back to one very fat frog hiding up in the corner, and one skeletonized frog. 

I removed the tank to the garage, removed all the water, removed anything that seemed like food, and pretty much CO2 bombed it for a week. I waited another week and did it all over again. 

I could still find an ant or two left, but that process killed enough of them that the colony didn't rebound. Keep in mind though that colony really hadn't had much time to establish initially. It also helped that they went for the borax traps. 

Good Luck. Ants suck.


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

I've kept ants and they are the most remarkable little creatures. 

I kept them in different set ups and some were open top glass aquariums. To prevent them from escaping I simply spread normal olive oil on the top inch of the inside glass. A light film of oil is all that's needed and it lasts quite a while. Not sure how effective this method is on surfaces other than glass.


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## Mantella71 (Oct 7, 2013)

Another natural alternative to deter ants is crushed up cloves. Ammonia works to remove pheromone trails as well.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Jjl said:


> Not very easily. It's an old aquarium with several awkwardly-positioned holes and slits that I can't cover very well. Currently trying the best I can with tape and plastic wrap. The lid (Marineland) also has some tiny openings in its glass hinge. I'll have to try dabbing some silicone drops in the holes.


The methods of using olive oil petroleum jelly etc work but are prone to collecting dirt and debris which can cause them to be unsightly and fail. If it is possible the best thing would be to simply run some double sided tape around the upper edge of aquarium and don't forget to use some on any electrical cords or other fixtures that connect to the tank. Its generally easier to isolate the enclosure in this manner than trying to cover each and every small hole or crevice. 
There are also paint on products for this purpose such as fluon see https://www.bioquip.com/search/DispProduct.asp?pid=2871A 

If it is on a rack consider isolating the electrical cords and then the poles that support each shelf to prevent them from accessing the enclosures. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## jimmy rustles (Mar 10, 2013)

Otherwise a 2 cm Stripe of ultrafine Kiselgur Around the tank might work. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Just wanted to drop in and say Thank you to everyone who has offered tips thus far! After some taping, hydrogen peroxide, and rubbing alcohol, a lot of ants seem to have left. I will go and find some double-sided tape, too.


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

It was for me. I lost 3 out of 4 frogs in before I even knew what was going on. 

Best,

Chuck



Judy S said:


> wow...that's pretty cold...so you're saying that it is hopeless to eliminate the ants before the ants eliminate the frogs?????


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

chuckpowell said:


> It was for me. I lost 3 out of 4 frogs in before I even knew what was going on.


Chuck's point should be an important consideration. 

There are ants that are much more aggressive on attacking animals and due to this can pose a real risk to the frogs For example there are reports of Argentine ants (Linepithema humile) killing bird nestlings or small caged pets. 
The same can be said for the imported fire ants (even though the frogs may predate on these in the wild). The difference is that the animals are unable to avoid the attack by the ants in captivity and as a result depending on species, an attack on the frogs can be successful. 

some comments. 

Ed


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## Animaladdictionyt (8 mo ago)

Jjl said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm curious to know if any of you have experienced the misfortune of having an ant nest in your enclosure(s). That's right, not just "a few ants running around" but an actual nest...
> 
> ...


I have a similar issue. My ants like to live in the light of my vivarium. If any sneak into the frog tank they eat them but otherwise I have just been shaking out the light every few days outside and letting the ants feed my frogs. They try to find food in the frog tank and occasionally I see them carrying out springtails but they don't make it far with then before my frogs get the 2 for 1 special


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