# Fruit for flies in tank



## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

I read in several posts and also in a book I have, that an easy way to keep FF in one place or attract them back there is to keep a banana or orange slice in tank. The book even suggests that any remaining flies will lay their eggs on the fruit and eventually hatch.

I have tried several different ways. I used a pringles lid as a food dish, and put a banana on it. Some flies stayed, others didn't. I had no idea how long you could keep it, but in the tank environment it started molding in a couple of days. I figured you had to do it more often. But then I heard you can leave the fruit in there longer, but with it molding, I don't want the frogs to ingest anything harmful.

Also, bananas go bad (especially in the fridge) so as you are cutting off little slices to go in the tank, how do you keep the rest of it from going bad? MY brilliant idea was to cut up the whole banana in slices (well the first idea was to freeze the banana and cut off a piece at a time, but the banana was too hard to cut...) and then freeze those slices on wax paper... how to warm them up? Microwave. These went bad even faster, and I began to notice quite a few dead flies on the banana after a day.

So I tried orange slices, thinking they were a little more acidic, so they should last longer. Next day I check on it to find spider-web molding connecting have the things in the front of my tank. So I tossed it as well...

Suggestions? 

Is it ok (safe for the frogs) for fruit to mold like that in a viv? How long can it last with mold on it there? How do you keep the rest of the banana fresh that you aren't using? (The cut oranges did pretty well in the fridge) Are there any other fruits that might work better? (I ask, because I just found an escaped FF crawling on a grapefruit on the kitchen table...)

Thanks!


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## JLHayes13 (Feb 21, 2009)

I bought some crickets for my DFs when I was low on ffs and at the same time I bought some orange cricket cubes that are supposed to keep the crickets hydrated and full. The crickets never touched them but the ff's love them and will even lay eggs in them. There are several advantages to them over real fruit: 

1) They are about $5 at the pet store and come with about 40 cubes.
2) The cubes last for about 4 days in the tank and helps the ffs in the tank stay alive a little longer (they will even lay eggs in them and the frogs eat the larvae when they crawl out). 
3) I have yet to see any mold grow on them; they just break down to a mush after 4-6 days and get absorbed by the plants in the viv. 
4) They don't stink even when they break down; they just smell like orange candy slices.


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks, I'll look for those next time I'm at the store.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you seed the tank with springtails and/or isopods, the fruit will also provide a source of food for those invertebrates. 

I use orange and in off exhibit tanks leave the slice in until it basically dissolves (I've even had ff larva pupate in them) as this provides many different food sources for the frogs. 

I have strong reservations about the use of those cricket cubes as they are made using polyacrylimide which under enviromental conditions like those found in terraria can decompose to acrylamide. Acrylamide is toxic to vertebrates... 

Ed


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## JLHayes13 (Feb 21, 2009)

It doesn't say that polyacrylamide is an ingredient in the orange cubes, are you thinking of the water gel stuff they also sell? I looked at Fluker's site and they list the cricket quencher as being a Polyacrylamide copolymer but it is not mentioned on the orange cubes; the orange cubes use carageenan as a gelling agent.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Not much better see Review of Harmful Gastrointestinal Effects of Carrageenan in Animal Experiments 

Review of Harmful Gastrointestinal Effects of Carrageenan in Animal Experiments 
Joanne K. Tobacman 

College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa, USA

Characteristics of Carrageenan 
Experimental Results in Animal Models 
Conclusion 
Abstract


In this article I review the association between exposure to carrageenan and the occurrence of colonic ulcerations and gastrointestinal neoplasms in animal models. Although the International Agency for Research on Cancer in 1982 identified sufficient evidence for the carcinogenicity of degraded carrageenan in animals to regard it as posing a carcinogenic risk to humans, carrageenan is still used widely as a thickener, stabilizer, and texturizer in a variety of processed foods prevalent in the Western diet. I reviewed experimental data pertaining to carrageenan's effects with particular attention to the occurrence of ulcerations and neoplasms in association with exposure to carrageenan. In addition, I reviewed from established sources mechanisms for production of degraded carrageenan from undegraded or native carrageenan and data with regard to carrageenan intake. Review of these data demonstrated that exposure to undegraded as well as to degraded carrageenan was associated with the occurrence of intestinal ulcerations and neoplasms. This association may be attributed to contamination of undegraded carrageenan by components of low molecular weight, spontaneous metabolism of undegraded carrageenan by acid hydrolysis under conditions of normal digestion, or the interactions with intestinal bacteria. Although in 1972, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration considered restricting dietary carrageenan to an average molecular weight > 100,000, this resolution did not prevail, and no subsequent regulation has restricted use. Because of the acknowledged carcinogenic properties of degraded carrageenan in animal models and the cancer-promoting effects of undegraded carrageenan in experimental models, the widespread use of carrageenan in the Western diet should be reconsidered. Key words: carcinogenesis, carrageenan, carrageenase, diet, furcelleran (furcellaran) , hydrolysis, inflammatory bowel disease, nutrition, poligeenan, promoter, sulfated polysaccharide. Environ Health Perspect 109:983-994 (2001) . [Online 24 September 2001] 

Environmental Health Perspectives abstract.html


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

Well, like I mentioned earlier, I like the fact that the rest of the orange stays good in the fridge even with a slice out-- I like the idea of the orange, Ed, it would be fewer things to stock (seeing as we always have oranges because my wife loves them) and they are probably cheaper than purchasing specialty cubes.

I just want to make sure that whatever is growing on the orange won't affect the frogs.


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## JLHayes13 (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeah I read about that in another study, at least the carageenan is natural; I wouldn't think it would be a problem unless it was ingested by the frogs but definitely worth looking into further. One more reason I should stop those midnight milkshake runs


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

I recently made a large springtail culture and I have been throwing lots of different things in to see what they like. I tried a whole strawberry. While the springtsils like it, I have noticed that the fruit flies snuck into the culture(not an airtight lid) and they are breeding on the strawberry. I am getting a lot of flies coming out of the culture when I open it. The strawberry did not relly mold in the dark culture. So I tried one ina tank that is seeded with springs. It got all full of white fuzzy mold with in days. But the springtails still like it. So maybe I will try putting it in a dark spot under a leaf or plant and see if the flies breed on it there. The strawberry takes a long time to fully break down. Weeks at least.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JLHayes13 said:


> Yeah I read about that in another study, at least the carageenan is natural; I wouldn't think it would be a problem unless it was ingested by the frogs but definitely worth looking into further. One more reason I should stop those midnight milkshake runs


I always have to laugh when I read about the natural idea.. (not busting on you but I have heard that idea alot..)

the reason so is arsenic, botulin toxin, 

There is a different in scale and exposure. The amount of carrageen that you need to achieve the same exposure is significantly larger than the exposure needed for a small frog.... so you don't necessarily have to cut out the milkshake run.. maybe just cut down 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

michaelslenahan said:


> Well, like I mentioned earlier, I like the fact that the rest of the orange stays good in the fridge even with a slice out-- I like the idea of the orange, Ed, it would be fewer things to stock (seeing as we always have oranges because my wife loves them) and they are probably cheaper than purchasing specialty cubes.
> 
> I just want to make sure that whatever is growing on the orange won't affect the frogs.


Its a fungus that is probably already working in the substrate in the enclosure. 

Ed


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## JLHayes13 (Feb 21, 2009)

reggorf said:


> I recently made a large springtail culture and I have been throwing lots of different things in to see what they like. I tried a whole strawberry. While the springtsils like it, I have noticed that the fruit flies snuck into the culture(not an airtight lid) and they are breeding on the strawberry. I am getting a lot of flies coming out of the culture when I open it. The strawberry did not relly mold in the dark culture. So I tried one ina tank that is seeded with springs. It got all full of white fuzzy mold with in days. But the springtails still like it. So maybe I will try putting it in a dark spot under a leaf or plant and see if the flies breed on it there. The strawberry takes a long time to fully break down. Weeks at least.


The reason you get fruit flies in your springtail culture after putting a strawberry in there is that the ff eggs are already in the strawberry. If you've ever left a banana on the counter until it spoils there was probably a bunch of ff flying around it even though you don't have winged ff's in your house.


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

How would I have fruit fly eggs on my strawberries that I kept in the fridge?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

reggorf said:


> How would I have fruit fly eggs on my strawberries that I kept in the fridge?


Well one possibility is the grocery store.. or during transit... 

Ed


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## Fyre (Oct 4, 2008)

I use apple slices and they last a long time.

tj


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I put a slice of bannana in a water bottle cap.
After 4-5 day`s the top of the bannana usually is moldy, I flip it over and usually by this time the bottom is crawling with maggot`s!
My leucs. go crazy over them.

John


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

John, how do you keep the rest of the banana (where you got the slice) from going bad before you need it? Bananas aren't expensive, I just hate the waste and I only have one tank.

guess I could eat it...


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

michaelslenahan said:


> John, how do you keep the rest of the banana (where you got the slice) from going bad before you need it? Bananas aren't expensive, I just hate the waste and I only have one tank.
> 
> guess I could eat it...


You guessed it!

John


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