# Experiences with Marcgravia El Coca



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Does anyone have any experience with this unusual species of Marcgravia? If so I'd appreciate you sharing. 

Are their care requirements essentially the same as a normal Marcgravia (e.g. don't let their leaves stay wet), except for the fact that they don't seem to shingle but rather prefer to grow downwards (or at least that's how they seem to prefer to grow in the images that I've seen)?

Would it be an issue if I were to plant mine near my tank's vents? Thank you.


----------



## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

I have a small El Coca cutting that is struggling because I let it dry out once, so my experience is limited. That being said - the juvenile foliage shingles like all Marcgravia, there just happen to be a lot of pictures of the mature leaves. Once it grows high enough, it sends out mature foliage that branches out and drapes down.

All Marcgravia will do this if they have good conditions and enough space, but they usually don’t have enough space in vivariums so you only see mature foliage in greenhouses. They will bloom at the end of these branches, which can be multiple feet long and far up in the canopy in nature, and they are actually pollinated by bats. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Marcgravia bloom in cultivation, but it might be possible in a greenhouse.

In any case, El Coca might produce mature branching foliage more easily than others because I have seen pictures of that in large vivariums, but I would not count on it. You should plant it in the substrate at the bottom of your tank and let it climb up the background or wood features.


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Harpspiel said:


> That being said - the juvenile foliage shingles like all Marcgravia, there just happen to be a lot of pictures of the mature leaves. Once it grows high enough, it sends out mature foliage that branches out and drapes down.


I see, this is the cutting that I've purchased:








Would this still be considered to be in the juvenile stage? If so, how should I go about planting it to shingle? The leaf shape and size doesn't seem like it'd be as conducive to shingling as other Marcgravias. Rather it looks like it'll just flop downwards.

Thank you.


----------



## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Hm, that is mature foliage, which I have never worked with. Does it have roots? I suspect that it will put out some juvenile foliage from the base, but I’m not sure.


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Harpspiel said:


> Does it have roots? I suspect that it will put out some juvenile foliage from the base, but I’m not sure.


Unfortunately I don't have my hands on it quite yet. The seller said it's currently in the process of establishing roots. I just wanted to ask this question pre-emptively to prepare for it and monitor the condition of where I intend to plant it since it's right next to a vent with a pretty active fan.


----------



## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Anon123 said:


> Unfortunately I don't have my hands on it quite yet. The seller said it's currently in the process of establishing roots. I just wanted to ask this question pre-emptively to prepare for it and monitor the condition of where I intend to plant it since it's right next to a vent with a pretty active fan.


Marcgravias are initially terrestrial and will do best if they can root into soil, and I believe this will grow upwards before it starts draping again, so if that fan is high up on the background I would not place it there. But you should ask the seller whether it will grow juvenile shingling foliage from this cutting or what it will do.


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Harpspiel said:


> so if that fan is high up on the background I would not place it there.


Why would it be a problem if the fan is located above the plant when it's planted into the substrate? Will the humidity be affected that greatly despite the distance?


Harpspiel said:


> But you should ask the seller whether it will grow juvenile shingling foliage from this cutting or what it will do.


Yeah, I've just reached out to them but I'm unsure whether they'll know the answer as they don't exactly specialize in the plant.


----------



## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Anon123 said:


> Why would it be a problem if the fan is located above the plant when it's planted into the substrate? Will the humidity be affected that greatly despite the distance?


When you said "right next to the vent" I assumed you were going to plant it high up, epiphytically. If it's in the substrate it should be fine. The only potential problem would be if it's not thoroughly rooted, and the fan dries it out too much. Just monitor closely and water it more frequently by hand until it's established.


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Harpspiel said:


> I assumed you were going to plant it high up, epiphytically.


Ah sorry, I'd assume you were talking about planting things in substrate when it came to placement with regards to fans due to the first half of the sentence. It it were possible to grow it epiphytically and high up (assuming that the cutting will grow hanging instead of shingling), would misting the plant more often offset the humidity loss caused by the fans or would it still be a bad idea?


----------



## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

I would not try it without some contact with soil. Here's a cool paper about Marcgraviaceae and Marcgravias specifically. This quote suggests that it can grow epiphytically, but it's not common (and what isn't common, is probably not a good idea when you're trying to get the hang of a new plant species):

"Most Marcgraviaceae are scandent with no active climbing mechanism (fig. 3) with the exception of Marcgravia, which climbs through the aid of adventitious roots (fig. 2a) that adhere to the bark of host trees. Marcgravia contains two dimorphic growing phases, a juvenile phase with flattened or quadrangular stems and small leaves (fig. 4b), and an adult phase with virgate branches, bearing fully developed leaves (fig. 2b). Only juvenile shoots have abundant adventitious roots and therefore a climbing behaviour...Some Marcgravia spp. may become epiphytic after losing contact with the soil, but they often show long ascending branches."

If the seller says it will continue to grow that mature branch, I would recommend still finding/making a pocket of soil maybe halfway up the background so it can drape but also has room to grow upwards...but I strongly suspect that it will produce juvenile growth that will want to climb next.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Not sure if this is precisely relevant, but Marc 'Azreal' produces mature growth easily, and the couple times I've rooted cuttings it starts by sending out juvenile leaves from the growth tip. Looks goofy.


----------



## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Not sure if this is precisely relevant, but Marc 'Azreal' produces mature growth easily, and the couple times I've rooted cuttings it starts by sending out juvenile leaves from the growth tip. Looks goofy.


That is exactly what I suspected the El Coca would do, this is great info. What do you mean exactly by "growth tip" - it didn't grow from the base of the cutting?

Also, my Azreal cuttings have just hung out in my jewel bowl for about a year now, looking quite healthy and producing new growth extremely slowly. Everyone else's Azreal seems to be vigorous. I think I'll try moving one of them out to my grow tent where there's more light and more air movement.


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I've rooted cuttings it starts by sending out juvenile leaves from the growth tip.


Well, from everything that was said in this thread it seems I'd best grow it terrestrially. Hopefully pinning it up against the wall won't result in the mature leaves looking too wonky and snapping because they weren't intended to be in that position.


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Well, I've managed to find this image which basically confirms what Harpsiel and Socratic Monologue has said (assuming this Japanese website isn't mislabeling their plants). It seems as though mature cuttings do indeed send out juvenile leaves. 

Although it does appear as though mature leaves are more likely to appear for these types of cuttings? Granted that's just an assumption based on an image.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Harpspiel said:


> That is exactly what I suspected the El Coca would do, so this is great info. What do you mean exactly by "growth tip" - it didn't grow from the base of the cutting?


I mean the point at the apex (had to look this one up) of the shoot. After rooting, the cutting simply continues to grow as before except that the new growth is juvenile.

Cutting is rooted on lower left, and is climbing up the wall to the upper right. Change in leaf size/shape marks the point at which the new cutting began growth again:











Plant is growing downward, so old growth on top:


----------



## Imatreewaterme (May 19, 2021)

Where did you get this plant? It looks awesome, but everywhere I look it is like 100 dollars.

Ricky


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Imatreewaterme said:


> Where did you get this plant? It looks awesome, but everywhere I look it is like 100 dollars


I'm not in the US so where I source my plants won't really be applicable to you. And by the time you account for potential shipping and import fees, I'm sure the prices that I'm getting my plants at will be on par with a 100 bucks.


----------



## Imatreewaterme (May 19, 2021)

Anon123 said:


> I'm not in the US so where I source my plants won't really be applicable to you. And by the time you account for potential shipping and import fees, I'm sure the prices that I'm getting my plants at will be on par with a 100 bucks.


Thanks for the reply. Maybe someday it will be more available and I can get it. 

Good luck with yours.

Ricky


----------



## Anon123 (Jan 13, 2022)

Imatreewaterme said:


> Maybe someday it will be more available and I can get it.


Looking at the classifieds it seems like they've been at that price for a while. Maybe someone on the board can get some and sell them for relatively cheaper once they've managed to propagate it.


----------

