# Not Pleased With Insitu Ecosystems Amazonia



## Crockett H (Jan 20, 2019)

Hello, I recently bought an Insitu Amazonia (with the gracious discount code dendrobuddy) directly from the Insitu website. I spent $400 on it. I have not yet started working on the tank, and I do not think that I will be continuing with this project.

I bought the tank to house a colony of 6 mourning geckos. My 3 have started having eggs, and I wanted to get a tank set up and running for when the babies mature. I do not mean to bash Insitu or anything, and I am sure their tanks work great for most, but from what I have experienced, the tank will not work for me.

I had no issues receiving the tank or setting it up, (except that my dimmer switch does not work, but I’m sure it’d be no issue to get a replacement).
My problems are with the basic functionality of the vivarium. 
The circulation fans are way too loud, and have very little output I feel. I can only feel the flow on my hand about 3-4” away from the fan. Any further and it disappears.

The sliding glass doors rattle when the smallest bump is made to the table. They do not seem very secure in their tracks. They seem to fit as they were designed to, but I fear that my geckos will be able to slip out the small cracks if one of the doors leans the wrong way. Certainly not fruit fly proof either.

I think that the drainage aspect is really cool, and I appreciate the installed bulkhead as well. I like the look of the tank, but that brings me to my biggest issue, the lighting.

I am hoping that the dimmer switch replacement could help this issue, but the lights get waaaaaaaay too hot for an arboreal geckos species. For a climbing frog species too. I wish I had have known this before I ordered the tank. The top bit of the light gets to be 160-170 degrees Fahrenheit after running for about 3 minutes. It stays about that high after running for more time.
Then, the inside glass over the light bay reaches about 130-140 degrees Fahrenheit. A little gecko putting their toes on that would certainly come away with severe burns. It even hurts my hand to the touch.

I was really excited about my Insitu tank, but I don’t think it will work out for me. I don’t mean to rant and bash Insitu, but I think that the lights in particular need some redesigning to cool them off. The sliding doors could also be looked at and made more secure.
Does anyone have advice on how to fix my issues, or how I can better my experience?

Thank you.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Crockett H said:


> Hello, I recently bought an Insitu Amazonia (with the gracious discount code dendrobuddy) directly from the Insitu website. I spent $400 on it. I have not yet started working on the tank, and I do not think that I will be continuing with this project.
> 
> I bought the tank to house a colony of 6 mourning geckos. My 3 have started having eggs, and I wanted to get a tank set up and running for when the babies mature. I do not mean to bash Insitu or anything, and I am sure their tanks work great for most, but from what I have experienced, the tank will not work for me.
> 
> ...


Well the first thing to do would be to contact InSitu directly as they can help you one way or the other better than anyone here — it’s their product. Have you spoken with them about your issues? Maybe you got a defective light, for instance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crockett H (Jan 20, 2019)

Fahad said:


> Well the first thing to do would be to contact InSitu directly as they can help you one way or the other better than anyone here — it’s their product. Have you spoken with them about your issues? Maybe you got a defective light, for instance?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. I have contacted them. I’m just waiting on a reply. I guess that’s all I really can do. I’m hoping I do have a defective light.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Crockett H said:


> Yes. I have contacted them. I’m just waiting on a reply. I guess that’s all I really can do. I’m hoping I do have a defective light.


It seems to be running unusually hot. That can’t be standard operating temperature…


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## Crockett H (Jan 20, 2019)

Fahad said:


> It seems to be running unusually hot. That can’t be standard operating temperature…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can anyone who has an Insitu as well compare temperatures?


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Don't run at it full, it is way too bright and way too hot. Most people run them at 50% power. Obviously you can't do that without a working dimmer - but that is your issue there.


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## jeffkruse (Jun 5, 2018)

You run it at full for only a few hours a day and dim it down to simulate the sun. My Spectral design light hoods don't get hot. They get warm to the touch at the top, over 100 degrees but never unpleasantly warm. My lights are not in my viv, they sit on top. Ditch the dimmer and use a TC420.


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## bighollywood (Mar 4, 2015)

My temps are 120









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## eMCRay (Mar 24, 2020)

I've used an Insitu for a while now. In general I'm very happy - definitely better for darts than standard exos or whatever else, but there are some items I've found are tweakable, most notably:

Doors are not entirely fruit fly proof - there is still a bit of a gap between the doors (despite the silicone notch / seal)
You can close this up via a second seal. I’ve made that tweak on my end and meaningfully cut down escapees (including smaller fruit flies) with 0 impact to visibility / usability
I also cleaned up / redid some of the siliconing and gluing around the edges and smoothing out the door tracks since they were a bit wobbly. Just a bit of a picky person where no viv (even my self-builds) are perfect

Yes, it does tend to run "hot", especially with the lighting feature cranked up to 100%. Main reason why is that the LED strips are clustered closer together than other spectral designs (the manufacturer) LED panels to make room for all the vents / pass-throughs
If you look at the spectral designs website, they actually offer another "taller" panel with more air inside that will keep things cooler
Also I don't recommend running LEDs at 100% - difference between 70 and 100% is mostly heat, very little light
If it's still hot, just throw on a PC fan. I've modified my spectral designs / insitus extensively (going as far as to slap on a heatsink + fan)

A few other pet peeves of mine:

No water-level indicator? Would be super helpful especially if using the Rio (the water feature insitu sells)
Also, on that water feature (using it for a drip wall in one of mine), I’ve also found that attaching an external reservoir that gravity-feeds the pump lets me manage the water level a bit more consistently / safer

Finally, there are no "plugs" for the below-door vents - ight be helpful to cut down airflow in the colder / drier months
Overall definitely a great out of the box viv that I'd highly recommend.

I know Bill from Insitu is actually on this board. @InSitu FYI.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I wonder if the temp gun aimed through the diffuser is actually reading the LEDs themselves rather than the diffuser surface temp. A more accurate temp reading would come from putting a piece of masking tape on the diffuser and taking the temp of the tape.

Your IR gun might be bad, though. My Amazonias run at about 75%, but I just turned them up from there to 100% for a couple minutes, and couldn't measure higher than 102F on top and 90F on the diffuser. For reference, I measured a random RHP in one of my snake enclosures (radiant heat panel, designed to be used inside reptile enclosures with animal contact) and the hottest spot was 158F -- hot to the touch, but not dangerously so. Not as hot as my driveway any day of the last two weeks, and the garter snakes love it out there.

As to the fans, I replaced mine with Noctuas that are quieter but don't put out more air. Run at full power, they dry the viv out considerably; more air movement wouldn't necessarily be a plus, IMO (I actually run mine at about 25% currently.


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## eMCRay (Mar 24, 2020)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I wonder if the temp gun aimed through the diffuser is actually reading the LEDs themselves rather than the diffuser surface temp. A more accurate temp reading would come from putting a piece of masking tape on the diffuser and taking the temp of the tape.
> 
> Your IR gun might be bad, though. My Amazonias run at about 75%, but I just turned them up from there to 100% for a couple minutes, and couldn't measure higher than 102F on top and 90F on the diffuser. For reference, I measured a random RHP in one of my snake enclosures (radiant heat panel, designed to be used inside reptile enclosures with animal contact) and the hottest spot was 158F -- hot to the touch, but not dangerously so. Not as hot as my driveway any day of the last two weeks, and the garter snakes love it out there.
> 
> As to the fans, I replaced mine with Noctuas that are quieter but don't put out more air. Run at full power, they dry the viv out considerably; more air movement wouldn't necessarily be a plus, IMO (I actually run mine at about 25% currently.


Yep - forgot to include, but I also swapped out the fans with noctuas. Very simple / easy fix and a real game changer (think they are around 15-20 each and not audible). Would be a big fan of those coming stock / as an option.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

IMO you should not feel the air of circulation fans very far away, that is fine. Kind of like if you are just sitting outside on a normal day you don't feel wind, but its still there at a low level creating circulation. Thats said being loud would be annoying and I bet they are small fans to save money.


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## hansgruber7 (Mar 23, 2020)

I'm very happy with my InSitu Amazonia. If you run the lights on 50% it solves your lighting problem (I realize your dimmer doesn't work). I get far fewer fruit fly escapees than on my Exo terra. I have no problem with my doors or fans. It's leaps and bounds better than an Exo terra in my experience.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

You really should go straight to the Owner on this one. You're not helping anyone by providing negative public feedback without at least trying to solve it through the company.


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## lamamg01 (Jan 22, 2020)

In their set video they recc to not run the lights at full power unless you need to. Their rational was the higher output was for some orchids that need it. I would fix the dimmer and revaluate. I haven't had issues with ff escapes. I keep reticulata in mine and they are very sneaky so if it wasn't secure they would escape.


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## mikestra (Oct 16, 2008)

Add me to list of people that swapped in Noctua fans. I even tied them into an analog pc fan controller to control their speed. I found they dry things up a little too much, so right now they run at only about 5%. I'll probably ramp them up when I simulate a dry season, but honestly I think the viv would be fine without fans altogether. I will say the door tracks on both of mine are a weak spot, as it takes some technique to open them without the glass binding in the top of the track and getting stuck. I think the tolerances here are the cause of your door rattle, but I would not be worried about any inhabitants escaping. In my opinion, I still prefer them over the swing open doors on an Exo Terra. I would for sure reach out for a new dimmer for the light. Like everyone else, I run mine between 50%-75% (I've played around with them recently to try to color my broms up more). I've noticed they get warm when run full out, but certainly not hot enough to burn my hand. If a new dimmer doesn't fix your issue, maybe try to get a new light?


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## Clintonsparsons89 (Oct 8, 2019)

If a company sells a product meant to safely house reptiles, and they give you the ability to run their lights at 100% power, then that light should be safe to use at 100% power. Either your light is defective or they are selling an dangerous product for reptiles.

Period.you should be able to safely run at full power, OR they should design a product that is incapable of running at full power since that's too hot.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Clintonsparsons89 said:


> If a company sells a product meant to safely house reptiles, and they give you the ability to run their lights at 100% power, then that light should be safe to use at 100% power. Either your light is defective or they are selling an dangerous product for reptiles.
> 
> Period.you should be able to safely run at full power, OR they should design a product that is incapable of running at full power since that's too hot.


The lights are designed to grow plants, not reptiles. The enclosures aren't even designed for reptiles, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. Read the rest of the thread before you comment.

The full power of the lights is necessary to grow certain types of high light plants. It gives customers the option of using them for that purpose. They come with a dimmer included and instructions on what lighting intensity to use for what purpose. The problem is that the dimmer is acting up for the OP. Again, read the thread before you comment, especially when your comments could be detrimental to a product/company.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Chris S said:


> The enclosures aren't even designed for reptiles,


FWIW, they are marketed for frogs and dwarf geckos.



Clintonsparsons89 said:


> Period.you should be able to safely run at full power, OR they should design a product that is incapable of running at full power since that's too hot.


This isn't the case for herp heat mats, which require thermostats, nor for lighting, which requires timers. Tangentially, it isn't the case for a wide range of consumer products, virtually all of which require some human control and restriction (cars can't safely be driven at top speed, you can't safely drink the whole case of wine, you have to turn the faucet off manually when the sink is full, etc). 

Not only is there reason to think that this is an anomolous case (since none of the rest of us see these temps), but I've pointed out that even the high temps are within the range of accepted herp-contact surfaces. Let's not make any implications that have been disproven earlier in the thread.

@Crockett H , I'm certain that Bill would have gotten back to an email by now -- what did InSitu say about the situation?


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## Clintonsparsons89 (Oct 8, 2019)

Chris S said:


> The lights are designed to grow plants, not reptiles. The enclosures aren't even designed for reptiles, so I'm not sure what you are going on about. Read the rest of the thread before you comment.
> 
> The full power of the lights is necessary to grow certain types of high light plants. It gives customers the option of using them for that purpose. They come with a dimmer included and instructions on what lighting intensity to use for what purpose. The problem is that the dimmer is acting up for the OP. Again, read the thread before you comment, especially when your comments could be detrimental to a product/company.


I did read the thread, thanks. And they do market it for housing animals. It says "vivarium" plastered everywhere on their site. What other pets could go in a vivarium besides reptiles and amphibians? Hamsters.

The light should not be capable of burning inhabitants with or without a dimmer. I don't appreciate your condescending tone, especially since your speaking to someone who ran a research greenhouse. I know just a little about high light plants.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Clintonsparsons89 said:


> The light should not be capable of burning inhabitants with or without a dimmer.


Did you read where *three* of us pointed out that we do not get the same temps with that unit as the OP does, suggesting either that the particular light/driver at issue is faulty, or the IR gun is faulty?

Also, please keep in mind that none of us know what anyone's past history or experience is. When comments about the subject matter are made here, they typically assume an intelligent but not specially knowledgeable audience unless the context or previous posts in the thread dictate a different approach.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Clintonsparsons89 said:


> I did read the thread, thanks. And they do market it for housing animals. It says "vivarium" plastered everywhere on their site. What other pets could go in a vivarium besides reptiles and amphibians? Hamsters.
> 
> The light should not be capable of burning inhabitants with or without a dimmer. I don't appreciate your condescending tone, especially since your speaking to someone who ran a research greenhouse. I know just a little about high light plants.


I'm not suggesting in any way shape or form what your experience level is with plants, reptiles or amphibians. I'm only commenting on your post, which reads as though you haven't read any of the prior discussion. You may have found my post arrogant, but I found yours ignorant. So I guess we are even now.

I retract my comment regarding reptiles. The website does say dwarf gecko's - and I would assume anything small and in need of high humidity would also be ok here.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

A man is always better than his printed opinion.

- Twain, i think


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Reptiles are more likely to receive chronically induced thermal burns 
hugging up to lighted panels and screens that are sub temp than screen portions and heated panels that are 'too hot'. Within reason and rational environment design withstanding. Common illustration chameleon with lesion on belly from hanging upside down day after day under too weak a watt/setting instead of being able to attain a potz standing in a normal basking pose under a correct level of radiant heat. Chams are radiant baskers so not the best analogy. But reptiles read higher zone temperatures pretty well. 

I am not saying its not a good idea to turn it down for the geckos. 

But they are not going to broil their feet on the panel as readily as you might think.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

Clintonsparsons89 said:


> I did read the thread, thanks. And they do market it for housing animals. It says "vivarium" plastered everywhere on their site. What other pets could go in a vivarium besides reptiles and amphibians? Hamsters.


Arachnids, crustaceans, insects, etc...


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

@Crockett H , what did InSitu say about the issue?


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## jeffkruse (Jun 5, 2018)

I think you have a legit reason to write about your experience but you have been told to contact the company. IMO, you should only be commenting back on those exchanges otherwise, you are beating your own dead horse.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Considering that Bill got back to me inside of 5 minutes via email when I had an issue, I can't imagine the OP's issues haven't been addressed in detail by now.

(One of my Altos had a slow leak from the trench-drain assembly -- 5-second fix as I just needed to tighten the nut to seal the gasket. So actually a non-issue ... I only contacted Bill because the Alto was already partially set-up and I couldn't work out if I needed to seal it via silicone or what, as inspecting it in detail wasn't an option.)


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## InSitu (May 3, 2021)

Clintonsparsons89 said:


> I did read the thread, thanks. And they do market it for housing animals. It says "vivarium" plastered everywhere on their site. What other pets could go in a vivarium besides reptiles and amphibians? Hamsters.
> 
> The light should not be capable of burning inhabitants with or without a dimmer. I don't appreciate your condescending tone, especially since your speaking to someone who ran a research greenhouse. I know just a little about high light plants.


Hi Everyone! Somehow this thread escaped our notice. But, Wow! did it go through some issues! Creative tension is always welcome, as it helps us design better and better systems for our future!

The In Situ lights are designed to give great flexibility to the desires of the hobbyist that is using them. Our lights have a maximum output of about 44 watts, which is about 3 times higher than most lights on the market. This dynamic ranges is necessary for some plants. The best way to use the lights is with a controller that ramps them from zero to 100% throughout the day, with a maximum peak of 100% for an hour or two, but no more. This duration will color up bromeliads and not over heat the terrarium in a temperature controlled room. We offer the Apex to control lighting, as well as monitor and effect temperature driven issues. We don't say it often, but maybe we should: incorporating a programmable controller into your collection room is an important step towards an optimally performing system that manages all of the functions and temperature. In the future, we will offer other controllers, as people are working on better solutions all of the time. In lieu of a controller, we suggest turning down the dimmer so that the hobbyist can dial in the light that is necessary, as well as make determinations about the temperature and conditions that are present in his/her room. Manually controlling lighting will likely require seasonal adjustments, as ambient conditions change. Its hard to remember, but every hobbyist's conditions are different. Some extreme examples include where we live in the Pacific Northwest, versus Phoenix, Denver, Miami, or New York. Humidity, temperature, and, even daylight changes with latitude as well as longitude.

Our circulation system has features that should be understood as well. First, we start off with a 12 volt fan, and de-rate it to 9 volts to help reduce noise. With this voltage, we can exchange the air in the vivarium about 3 times per minute per fan. So, there is substantial flow (even though it may not appear so). Additionally, the fan is treated to be "waterproof" (water resistant). We use ball bearings to improve the life as well as reduce noise. Overall, the fans should not be overly loud. But, some fans can be a little noisy. What we have found is that the fan itself can be manufactured out of balance, in which case, it will make a noise when removed from the housing. Second, sometimes the screen rubs on the impellor blades. In this case, we use a thin blunt object to push the screen away from the blades, and that usually solves the problems. In any case, if the fans are bothering you, please remember to connect with us and we will certainly replace them for you. Lastly, we should note that if you would like more air flow, the voltage can be increased to the rated 12 volts without any degradation to the system. We stock 12 volt power supplies, so we can easily make the swap for you if you desire it (just let us know).

We hope this unravels some of the knots tied up in this thread. And, if not, remember to connect with us so we can jump in when necessary!

Thanks for the discussion!

Bill/In Situ


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## InSitu (May 3, 2021)

Hi Everyone - 

Its been a bit since this thread was posted by Crockett, but we wanted to get back and put in some closing comments.

We contacted Crockett to see if we could help him create a positive experience. What we did was offer him a chance to try out a controller we are considering offering. The idea being that he could help us evaluate the controller in a though environment. We have not heard back from him.

In regards to temperature, animals will not move to hot surfaces naturally. Typically, if the animal is seeking warmth, they move to the spot that is comfortable for them, and move away from it if they are not comfortable. 

Temperature measurement with a laser pyrometer can be tricky. First, glass has three different properties that have to be considered: transmissivity, emissivity, and reflectivity. It is very possible that part of the temperature reading was the actual LED diode temperature because of the transmissivity factor. As mentioned above, the best way to measure glass temperature is to put a piece of tape over it, and measure the tape's temperature. That being said, at full intensity, our lights do get hot. But, it is not our intention, nor anyone's, we believe, to run them at 100% power continuously (even though we do know of hobbyists that actually do that). From a safety perspective, we incorporate fire resistant materials in their construction, and, now, have millions of hours of continuous safe usage. If anyone has information that contradicts this, we urge them to contact us immediately.

All of the above taken into account, it should be noted that we sell, we believe, is a minimum acceptable set of equipment with regards to lighting: Capability to grow a broad spectrum of plants, a simple dimmer so the hobbyist can adjust the intensity to his/her preference, and a power adapter that you can rely on. All that being said, we strongly encourage people to adapt a controller of their choice to create the light cycle that meets their needs. In reference to an entire collection room, there is no "one size fits all" in this respect. We sell and help people program Apex controllers because, for the price, they eliminate a lot of the worry and fuss associated with dimming cycles, misting, room ventilation, temperature control, water flow, etc.. And, in context of a large number of vivariums, is a work horse in regards to making life simple. In regards to optimal light cycles, we have adopted (as our standard), a one hour full intensity peak in the middle of the day, with a ramp up or ramp down on either side of it. This gives enough light to color up bromeliads, as well as prevents burning and over temperature conditions. 

We hope everyone reads this thread with an eye towards creating a better experience, and are thankful critical customers like Crockett give us the opportunity to explore the finer points of our system.

Bill/In Situ


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