# My First frog died



## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

I just found my little azureus dead today. I am so sad. I have no idea what caused him to pass. I saw him actively eating springtails just before lights out and now I found him upside down at the back of his viv. This is so upsetting I was really enjoying him and this hobby. Can you guys help me figure out what happened? I was dusting his FF's in repashy supervite and repti-cal. However he didn't have and FF's in the past days because my culture crashed due to grain mites. But I was giving him a lot of spring tails and isopods on top of the fact that the viv was seeded with them. So starvation was definitely not the problem he/she has a fairly plump belly and thighs. His dead body has a few grain mites on it, idk if that is normal. Please help me out guys I am in shock and pretty depressed. :/


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm so sorry 

I don't see anything obvious. Would you post a few pics of his tank?


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear that 

Could you share some more info.. like the temp and humidity in the tank, what size tank, if there were any tank mates, how long you've had him, his age, as well as the pics of the tank so maybe one of us can help you figure out what happened?


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## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

So sorry to hear that


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## JohnVI (May 1, 2013)

Sucks. Sorry to hear, pretty little guy

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


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## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

Moriko said:


> I'm so sorry to hear that
> 
> Could you share some more info.. like the temp and humidity in the tank, what size tank, if there were any tank mates, how long you've had him, his age, as well as the pics of the tank so maybe one of us can help you figure out what happened?


Tank humidity has never dropped 75%, normally around 85% during the day and temps are max 86F mid day which is the hottest, night temps are about 73-76F. The tank is a 5 gallon I believe, it was only temporary as he was still very young I got him when he was only about 1 month old. Just a froglet. He/she was housed alone. I believe I have had him close to 2 months. He has not shown any weird signs what so ever and looked completely healthy and was eating springs just last night. This is so odd . 
Thank you guys


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Sal90 said:


> temps are max 86F mid day


That is a high temperature, did you measure that temperature on the ground floor of the tank or at the top of the tank?

Did you have any hide spots for the frog to get away from the lights, like a coconut, or any plants that would provide significant areas of shade?


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## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

Willowalker said:


> That is a high temperature, did you measure that temperature on the ground floor of the tank or at the top of the tank?
> 
> Did you have any hide spots for the frog to get away from the lights, like a coconut, or any plants that would provide significant areas of shade?


That is near the top of the tank more towards the middle, I have plenty of leaf litter that he would use to hide, and i have large leaves that provided even more cover. I am posting a picture now.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

My thought is that it is temperature related. That is a small enclosure with little room for him to find a cooler spot if the temps spiked. Is it possible that sunlight was shining on the container?


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## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

I would have to agree with Kris, 
that is pretty hot for a dart frog, it is suggested that temperatures should not exceed 80*f


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I would have to agree. I try to keep my tanks in the mid 70's so that seems a bit high to me too. Has it only recently been getting that warm in the tank? That would be my guess as to the problem.

Once again, I'm really sorry that you lost him. That is never easy to deal with.


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## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

No it is completely away from sunlight and 85 degrees is only for like 1 hour during the after noon then it cools off to like 82


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

Sal90 said:


> 85 degrees is only for like 1 hour during the after noon then it cools off to like 82


I think you just cooked your frog.


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## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

That is really hard to hear, i did not even think that was a possibility.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

It's all part of the learning process 

If you get another froglet, instead of a small keeper like that one, I'd get a larger plastic Sterlite tub. Something nice and airy. Smaller containers do not offer much escape for a creature if they need to try to find a cooler or warmer spot.


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## mindcrash (Mar 3, 2004)

...and turn on the AC.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

We should address temps in general, too, I think. Why is it getting up to 86? Is that the temp in your house? Is there somewhere cooler you could keep a frog?

I don't like for my house temp to get 80+. With the lights on the tanks, the temps inside the tanks are a few degrees warmer than that. When it hits 80 inside my house, the lights on the tanks get turned off. It's not that 80 is necessarily too hot, but, it doesn't leave a lot of room for a rise in temps. If you are already at 86, it can be too much for a frog if the temp goes up from there. No enough wiggle room.

It's not that I keep my house at 80, but, last week my AC went out. I was a wreck. Spent the weekend and a good bit of time during the week, when I was supposed to be at work, changing out ice packs on and in the tanks, trying to keep everything as close to 80 as I could. All fixed now but it was not fun. Luckily my supervisor is an animal lover and used to keep tree frogs


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## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

Ok I am gonna set up a 10 gallon and set up t8 or t5 lighting instead of cfl's Hopefully everything will be better. Now I am looking to aquire a new Azureus that i can pick up. Thank you guys.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Sal90 said:


> Ok I am gonna set up a 10 gallon and set up t8 or t5 lighting instead of cfl's Hopefully everything will be better. Now I am looking to aquire a new Azureus that i can pick up. Thank you guys.


Glad to hear you aren't going to give up! What are you going to do to keep the temps down?


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## kthehun89 (Jul 23, 2009)

way too hot man, waaaaay too hot


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

frogface said:


> Smaller containers do not offer much escape for a creature if they need to try to find a cooler or warmer spot.


I have noticed that smaller containers can have a more dramatic increase and decrease in temperatures too.
A light above a smaller container will heat up faster than a larger one.
There is less cubic inches of air to have to heat up or cool down.
I would try to get a 20 gallon tank. or at least a 10 gallon.
also maybe it would help if you positioned the light up higher?
I would rather my plants suffer r die than a frog.
so IMO I would rather starve a plant of light than cook a frog.

If your house is too hot. open a window or have a fan circulate air
inside the room. or both!. I would not point a fan directly at the tank
but just have it occilating inside the room to move air around that will
cool it off. Just make sure you mist more throughout the day to keep
humidity in check or you will dehydrate your frog.

65 to 70 degree ambient room temp is perfect for that type of frog.
that would probally put your tank temp around low to mid 70's


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I've had my frogs in the 80s for like a week or two ago when there was a heat wave. They were fine (although I did worry a bit). But they were in much bigger enclosures with plenty of air flow, which I believe makes a huge difference when the temp goes up. I know there's one spot that they hide in to cool off when they want.

But in an enclosure that small (especially if there's no air movement), temp in the 80s can be much more dangerous.

Also, don't t8/5s put out more heat than CFLs?


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

hypostatic said:


> don't t8/5s put out more heat than CFLs?


Yes they do.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I believe it was the heat. LED's would be a cooler lighting system for you. I am running a bunch of Todd's Jungle Dawn, 13w LEDs and it really helped with my heat issues. I bought 12 of them about a year ago and it helped enough with the heat, that I just bought 17 more of them! For a 10 gallon viv, you could probably use the 11 watt model.

Might I ask why you are using repashy supervite and repti-cal, rather than Repashy Calcium Plus? Calcium Plus is the stand alone product that Repashy designed for our dart frogs. Is your Reptical at least the one with Vitamin D included? If not, you might as well flush it down the toilet. Without Vitamin D, or specialized UVB lighting with a special UVB transmitting lid, your calcium is completely useless.


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> LED's would be a cooler lighting system for you.


For a tank that small. Totally good idea. LED's.

OP, Pumilo has spot on advise about the supplements part.
You may as well switch to repashy all together as well.

Rep-Cal and Herptovite are not your best option.
If you are buying it from the big box stores there
is a good chance it has been sitting on that shelf
or in a inventory warehouse well past the recomended
6 month mark when you are suppose to change your
supplements.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

can someone explain to the OP about the type of LEDs that are recommended...because they are not the same as what is typically found at the "big box stores." Just to avoid any confusion about them...and maybe a screen area for a partial top with a fan blowing across the top of the screen section??


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## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

I greatly appreciate all of your help! Well first of all my house is never over 75. I guess the tank being to small and the heat out put of the lights made it fatal. (Sadly). I have many small computer fans which i could use if necessary to cool, or ventilate. About the vitamine's yes it contains Vitamin D3. I will be seting up the 10 gallon tomorrow so it'll be ready for the new frog, and give me time to regulate the temps. I will create a new post tomorrow or whenever I get that set up so i can takeall of your suggestions. Again thank you guys very much!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Judy S said:


> can someone explain to the OP about the type of LEDs that are recommended...because they are not the same as what is typically found at the "big box stores." Just to avoid any confusion about them...and maybe a screen area for a partial top with a fan blowing across the top of the screen section??


I think you just did, Judy! Just hit up Todd at Light Your Reptiles. He is happy to guide you in your selection. Just don't call him or you are in for a 2 hour discussion about LEDs! (just kidding Todd, love all the info you've shared with me!)
As Judy touched on, a passive screen vent allows the heat to exit your viv. More importantly, it allows your frogs to regulate their own body temp through evaporative cooling. This cannot happen with a tightly sealed viv. With a properly vented viv, you can fudge that 80 degrees by a couple degrees. Here's how to build a vent. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63781-screen-vent-construction-how.html Here is what those vents look like installed in a viv. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/60340-my-first-clay-backgrounds.html

My personal choice is to run vents totally passive, without a fan blowing across it. Every viv I have has passive vents. Some of them also include an internal circulation fan, but these fans circulate only. They do no blow air in or out of the viv.


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## Sal90 (May 19, 2013)

Ok thank you very much, you guys are very informative! I will definitely be trying that out or something similar!


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