# Gnats!



## ppurcell (Dec 11, 2007)

Ok, I setup a vivarium about 2 years ago for my daughter and ever since there seems to be an endless supply of gnats coming out of it. I clean the tank regularly and change the moss and crushed coconut bedding. But, they always come back.

Is there a secret to keeping the vivarium and not having gnats or do the two go hand in hand?

Thanks...


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

I do not have that problem in my frog tanks. I do however have that problem with my springtail cultures.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

What kind of frogs do you have in that tank? Most dart frogs eat up gnats as a food source. Most of us welcome a bloom of them. Actually, you should not be "cleaning" the tank regularly, changing moss, etc. What the original dart tank set-up is meant to be, is a biologically recycling process with a variety of live plants, many microbes, etc. that balance out over time. We generally do not change coco bedding as one does for most reptiles. We most often have either drainage layers or false bottoms for water features, and lots of live plants. The substrates may vary among various formulas, but aren't removed and replaced, at least not for years, except for a top dressing occasionally. About the only cleaning we do is wiping off the glass and trimming back extra plant growth- with perhaps a top dressing of new substrate every now and again. 

We need to know a few things before advising further. What animals are being kept in the tank? If they are dart frogs, you are on the right forum. If not, there may be other issues about the gnats that others may help with if they know what reptiles or amphibians are involved. What species of darts are you keeping, provided this applies?


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## ppurcell (Dec 11, 2007)

Hello again...

My vivarium is setup as for a whites tree frog (sorry not a dart) and a couple of fish. Here is a pic of the tank.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

My apologies--I didn't realize you were the same person posting the White's frog question that we confused so thoroughly already. 

Could your gnats be white fly? These can be somewhat of a plant pest in drier environments and fly around madly whenever they are disturbed. I assume those are live plants you have in there. In this case, you could try removing them and giving them a thorough wash with soapy water, then rinse the next time you change the substrate. This is no guarantee that they won't come back, but it might control their numbers. Misting the plants with distilled water may also help reduce their numbers or discourage them. While there are organic soap "insecticides" that contain no actual poisons, I'm not sure how this would affect your frog. 

You might also switch the source of your substrate mixture, whatever it is. Other than mild measures, I can't think of any safe way to get rid of them, since your White's no doubt pays little attention to them as a food item.


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## ppurcell (Dec 11, 2007)

They could be gnats, whitefly, fruit flys or some other small pesky flying nuisance. I don't know how to tell them apart.

I have a bottle of "Knock-Out Gnats" Biological Larvicide which lists Bacillus Thuringiensis, subspecies israelensis as the active ingredient. 

It doesn't specifically say that it cannot be used around animals, but under First Aid, it says for contact with skin or clothing, " Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice". Which I think is a good indication that it cannot be used in the vivarium.

I do use this on houseplants so, I doubt the gnat problem is coming from those containers.

Phil


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05556.html

This may help you make up your mind whether to try the Bacillus thuringiensis. It shouldn't harm your frog or fish or you, so I'm not sure what the warning label is about unless there is something else in the product for delivery or adhesion that makes it dangerous. It may not have any effect on those particular insects, but the israelensis is specific for fungus gnats for one.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

I didn't really get this for gnats, but use a beneficial bacteria and mycorrhizae innoculant in my tanks with no ill effect on the springtails, isopods, flies, or frogs. I have seen fungus gnats in some of the tanks where I use it and while it has thuringiensis, it's not israelensis like the one you mentioned.

I think the kurstaki strain is the most common, and thats what I think is in my mix. I would say it's safe, from my experience thus far.


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## ppurcell (Dec 11, 2007)

What is the name of the product? I don't see it on the label. Where can it be purchased?


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

It's not israelensis so it wouldn't help you with your problem. But if you are wondering just because you want some beneficial things in your substrate, it's a soil ecolizer that I got from my local hydroponics shop. There are a variety of brands you could try that have beneficial fungus and bacteria strains.


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## skadoosher (Jun 3, 2011)

I have a corn snake in a viv with live plants... i know a little out there but hang in with me.... i also have gnats, gnats, and more gnats.... would this insecticide be ok for that too and how would i use it....


any help would be great........


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## Freeradical53 (Jan 25, 2008)

Gnats are a nuisance in any environment that has high humidity! With the increase in temps in the South these past few days black gnats are rampant on the golf course and these things can bite!! Your problem is probably fungus gnats. If you have frogs in the tank and put something sour like a piece of apple to attract them your frogs should take care of them.


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## SteveR (Jul 26, 2012)

It seems I suddenly have something too.

I didnt get a chance to look closely, but I will tonight. I suspect fruit flies since I just tossed out a couple overripe bananas that had a few on them  and next thing I know - the small plant vivarium (12x12x18) I have has about 20 of the things flying around in there.

Just to get something quickly I got some flypaper and put it in there last night. I see it did the trick this morning. This was easy since I do not have any animals in there.

Also ordered some yellow sticky cards, which I think wil be easy to cut small and hide in a couple spots.. maybe on the underside of the top.

Amazon.com: Double-Sided Universal Insect Monitor Cards for White Flies, Aphids, Fungus Gnats, Thrips & Leaf Miners (10-Pack): Patio, Lawn & Garden

and, probably too quickly - I ordered some nematodes ( Steinernema feltiae )... which would work on fungus gnats...

Beneficial nematodes control soil dwelling garden and lawn pests

---

This could be a problem for me... this tank, bacause of the false bottom holding a reservoir of water, large water feature, constantly wet floor and routinely high humidity ( ~85%+ ) is pretty ripe for pests. I have already sprouted a random mushroom, so I know fungus is happening.


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## SmallScaleDan (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm guessing what you most likely have are Moth Flies or Drain flies. They have large wings, and are quite small. Anywhere you have standing water they will breed. They have an aquatic larva similar to a mosquito. They show up in drains that don't drain well, and, obviously, in terrariums. 

I've had them show up in lots of tanks, but they never make it long in dart tanks.  If you have a white's tree frog, or some other large reptile or amphibian who will ignore them, they can reach plague proportions quickly. 

Good luck! 

Dan 

PS 

Here is a piece on them from Michigan State University: 



> _In nature, moth fly larvae normally occur in aquatic habitats that experience intermittent submersion. They reproduce in polluted, shallow water or highly moist organic solids where they feed on decaying organic material in mud, moss or water. In homes, the adult flies are most likely found on the walls of the bathrooms, kitchens, basements and other locations where sewer drains and plumbing fixtures are located. The flies are poor fliers and usually are found close to the drain or area of origin. Moth fly larvae are known to live in drain traps, garbage disposals, toilet tanks, sides of drains and overflow pipes in homes, septic tanks and moist compost. They have also been found in dirty garbage containers, rain barrels and tree holes and other wet situations where organic material accumulates. Moth flies do not bite and are not known to transmit disease of any sort. The larvae can be controlled by eliminating or reducing breeding sites by thoroughly cleaning the drain lines, plumbing fixtures or eliminating possible wet areas around leaky pipes.
> 
> Eggs, which can hatch in 32 to 48 hours at 70 degrees F, are laid in and on the moist media. Larvae feed on the decaying organic matter, microorganisms, algae and sediment in the media. Larvae mature in 9 to 15 days and are considered valuable organisms along with the organic film in purifying sewage water. Larvae live in the organic film, breathing through tubes and feeding on sediment, decaying vegetation, along with microscopic plants and animals in filters at sewage plants. Pupae occur in or on the surface of the breeding media and, after 20 to 40 hours, new adults emerge.
> 
> The life cycle can be completed in one to three weeks. Adults live about two weeks, with old ones dying and new ones emerging. They feed on flower nectar and polluted water. During the day, adults rest in shaded areas or on walls near plumbing fixtures and on the sides of showers and tubs. Most activity occurs during the evening when these flies are seen hovering about drains and sinks. They may breed in large numbers at sewage filter plants and then may be carried by prevailing wind to nearby homes up to a mile away. Adults are small enough to pass through ordinary window screening._


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## SteveR (Jul 26, 2012)

Dan - if you responding to me (not trying to hijack the thread, really)... thanks for the new info.. again - I will look at them tonight under a loupe or the stereoscope.

The water in this tank is moving pretty good however... so not really standing.. and is filtered through an external canister filter. 
I have the impression the flies were more 'white' looking than brown or black like fungus gnats or moth flies... but just guessing. We will see what we find...

(I found this which is interesting http://www.pestproducts.com/smallflies.htm )


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

SmallScaleDan;772628 said:


> I've had them show up in lots of tanks, but they never make it long in dart tanks.


I've seen them hiit plague proportions in dendrobatid enclosures at an institution and one "noted" breeder had them in plague levels in his enclosures based on a private conversation... In high numbers the larva can and will predate on egg masses. 

Some comments

Ed


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

Iv had fungus gnats get quite out of hand and witnessed the larvae feeding on treefrog eggs but not normally on fertile ones.


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## SteveR (Jul 26, 2012)

Confirmed: I have Fungus Gnats.

I will continue with the sticky traps and will put the nemotodes in when the get here in a couple days. Hopefully that will keep them in check since I don't see the water situation changing any time soon.


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## SmallScaleDan (Nov 16, 2008)

Where the dendrobatid's you speak of, ED, something small? Thumbnails perhaps? 

They are pretty big, but I've seen adult tincs eat them. I didn't realize they would eat eggs! Yikes. Thanks for the tip. 

Dan


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

SmallScaleDan said:


> Where the dendrobatid's you speak of, ED, something small? Thumbnails perhaps?
> 
> They are pretty big, but I've seen adult tincs eat them. I didn't realize they would eat eggs! Yikes. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> Dan


No, tinctorius, auratus and the breeder I referenced had issues with his obligates the larva took over all of the deposition sites and were consuming clutches... 

Ed


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Can you try guppies in the water? They are great insect eaters. Also can you place in a sticky trap without catching the frog? Nothing like a yellow sticky trap for a pesticide free flying insect control.

Steve


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## herplover (Sep 21, 2012)

Where can that stuff be purchased at?


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