# Using Burlap instead of Hygrolon



## Reeza (Jul 10, 2017)

Hi All,

Did anybody happen to do some experiment of using Burlap instead of Hygrolon or Epiweb? Both Hygrolon and Epiweb are pretty pricey and I am looking for something as an alternative.


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## Kalle (May 14, 2010)

Reeza said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Did anybody happen to do some experiment of using Burlap instead of Hygrolon or Epiweb? Both Hygrolon and Epiweb are pretty pricey and I am looking for something as an alternative.


There are plenty of alternatives for hygrolon but I don't think burlap is one honestly. It's organic and will rot away very quickly. 

Hygrolon is a sandwich mesh fabric and there are plenty of others to try. Some will probably behave very similarly and others won't. If you're not looking for very strong wicking capabilities I think most will work just fine.


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> There are plenty of alternatives for hygrolon but I don't think burlap is one honestly. It's organic and will rot away very quickly.


Agreed. _Nasty_. Don't do it!!! You'll have a heap of junk at the base of your back wall within a few months, I reckon.

I have to ask though - what is your application? The 2 products you mention have very different performance properties - basically, hygrolon wicks and retains moisture (moderately) and epiweb drains (strongly). Are you looking for a substrate for e.g., mounting broms, or for growing moss?

Truly, an organic, non-toxic, but long-lasting option that gives you some of each (you can adjust the ratio) is the cracked-cork mosaic. The cork pieces drain, and the long-fiber sphagnum wicks and retains moisture. The way you adjust the ratio is by the size of the cork pieces, and to a lesser extent with the width of your moss-packed cracks.

good luck!


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## StickyToes1 (Jun 30, 2019)

Don’t do it !! Burlap is cured with chemicals some say you can throw it in the washing machine with vinegar to rinse it out. But one just sounds worse than the other.. I used (carbon ) air purifier filter sheets .. they work great for moss walls. Ect


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## Reeza (Jul 10, 2017)

Kalle said:


> There are plenty of alternatives for hygrolon but I don't think burlap is one honestly. It's organic and will rot away very quickly.
> 
> Hygrolon is a sandwich mesh fabric and there are plenty of others to try. Some will probably behave very similarly and others won't. If you're not looking for very strong wicking capabilities I think most will work just fine.


Tnx for your info.
what is the best alternative for Hygrolon with high wicking feature? any suggestion.


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## Reeza (Jul 10, 2017)

jgragg said:


> Agreed. _Nasty_. Don't do it!!! You'll have a heap of junk at the base of your back wall within a few months, I reckon.
> 
> I have to ask though - what is your application? The 2 products you mention have very different performance properties - basically, hygrolon wicks and retains moisture (moderately) and epiweb drains (strongly). Are you looking for a substrate for e.g., mounting broms, or for growing moss?
> 
> ...



I wanna grow moss on it. I know the hygrolon is the best option but as you know it is pricey and difficult to find it here in Canada.


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

For wicking, what about a felt, like the type used in capillary matting used by African Violet growers (or used to...don't know if they do any more or not) or the type used in green wall building? I don't know how much they would wick vertically compared to Hygrolon - have yet to test that myself - but at least they're a material designed to have wicking capability. I'd have to look it up again, but I think they're sold by the large sheet or roll and you can just cut it to size with household scissors. I have some pieces that my mother used to use in growing her African Violets over two decades ago, and while not in constant use that whole time, they've held up very well to both time and runs through the washing machine.

I've had Adiantum fern sporelings develop on their own on my capillary matting that I use for boosting humidity on my plant stand. Granted, it was laid horizontally, so that's probably not a good indicator of wicking potential. (It's sandwiched between two sheets of egg crate on top of a shallow tray, both to catch runoff from watering plants and to wick up water from the tray itself, as the ends are wrapped under the bottom sheet of egg crate.) I have one 6" computer fan on that shelf to help with air circulation, and the ambient household air has crappy humidity most of the year, so I suppose it's a small testament of how long it can hold sufficient moisture for something moisture-sensitive like baby ferns.

If you ever wanted to dis-mount something that rooted-in to the felt, though, I imagine it would be difficult at best, depending on how fine-rooted the plant was. I've had wandering aerial Phalaenopsis roots attach, but they're easy to pull off (most of the time); those Maidenhair fern babies, though, did *not* want to come off w/ roots intact.


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## Reeza (Jul 10, 2017)

Chlorophile said:


> For wicking, what about a felt, like the type used in capillary matting used by African Violet growers (or used to...don't know if they do any more or not) or the type used in green wall building? I don't know how much they would wick vertically compared to Hygrolon - have yet to test that myself - but at least they're a material designed to have wicking capability. I'd have to look it up again, but I think they're sold by the large sheet or roll and you can just cut it to size with household scissors. I have some pieces that my mother used to use in growing her African Violets over two decades ago, and while not in constant use that whole time, they've held up very well to both time and runs through the washing machine.
> 
> I've had Adiantum fern sporelings develop on their own on my capillary matting that I use for boosting humidity on my plant stand. Granted, it was laid horizontally, so that's probably not a good indicator of wicking potential. (It's sandwiched between two sheets of egg crate on top of a shallow tray, both to catch runoff from watering plants and to wick up water from the tray itself, as the ends are wrapped under the bottom sheet of egg crate.) I have one 6" computer fan on that shelf to help with air circulation, and the ambient household air has crappy humidity most of the year, so I suppose it's a small testament of how long it can hold sufficient moisture for something moisture-sensitive like baby ferns.
> 
> If you ever wanted to dis-mount something that rooted-in to the felt, though, I imagine it would be difficult at best, depending on how fine-rooted the plant was. I've had wandering aerial Phalaenopsis roots attach, but they're easy to pull off (most of the time); those Maidenhair fern babies, though, did *not* want to come off w/ roots intact.


Thank you for sharing your experience.
I have to try capillary matting to see what will happen.


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## RMugele (Jul 26, 2016)

Check RipstopByTheRoll is an excellent outdoors material seller, they have 3d spacer mesh that is nearly identical. I purchased some to test out and definitely wicks water. It is also on sale they have both 1/8 inch and 1/4 inch. 

https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/3d-spacer-mesh-1-8


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> I wanna grow moss on it. I know the hygrolon is the best option but as you know it is pricey and difficult to find it here in Canada.


Well, please, please excuse me, as I haven't read everything you've written so I don't know if you're dead-set on using a "fabric" material, or what's your uber-specific application. But, just as standalone words, this "I wanna grow moss on it" followed by this "hygrolon is the best option" are _not really true_. In my experience anyway. 

As the single best option I recommend the cracked-cork mosaic. It's an acceptable substrate for a larger diversity of moss taxa and growth forms (the happiest growers on hygrolon, in my experience, are very low-statured "flat-growing" mosses). I think it's because the mosaic (with an inch or so of LFS thickness) is way slower to completely dry out.

All that said, you *can* get hygrolon to work, but in my experience it's slower, harder, and in the end you can't have as many kinds of moss. Now, on my hygrolon I do have some mosses that I don't get on my cracked-cork. Probably because those little flat guys get smothered by the big, tall, luxuriant, rampaging mosses on my mosaic. I have some "comparison vivs" where, on the background, there's a narrow strip of hygrolon at the top and then there's a larger field of cracked-cork mosaic below that, all the way to the substrate. A couple of these vivs also have a wavy, +/- centered, vertical strip of hygrolon running down almost to the substrate (and mosaic on either side of the wavy strip). Note that all these vivs have driplines across the top rear, as well as mister heads. All on timers. Also all drilled & drained. These vivs are what really taught me what's what with moss-growing. Automated watering, and plenty of it, really help moss take off. With that much water going into the viv, you need to drain. *Heads up*, just sayin'. Floods suck.

So my other point is, you're really not stuck with a single option. And, by doing a bit of both, cracked-cork and hygrolon, you can economize with the hygrolon - stretch a little of it, further. Just take care to not use too much silicone with the hygrolon - I do think you can reduce its water-holding capacity if you "fill it up" with silicone. That's why I suggest the "grid of dots" method. I described it a while ago, just search for it if you're curious.

Anyway - happy moss-growing. Moss is awesome. _So soothing to behold, so charming to contemplate._ Goofy, but true to me. Ha ha. Bad day at work? _Go look at the moss for ten minutes._ Ha ha, but really!

cheers


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## RobJersey (Apr 23, 2019)

Just to give a tip.. speaker cloth is the same exact thing as hygrolon. I compared both side ny side and there is no difference between the two except price.


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## Japhyto (11 mo ago)

how did capillary mat work out?


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