# Let there be (LED) Light!!! Jungle Dawn™ vs. a generic alternative



## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

* *****PLEASE READ THIS FIRST******

This will be my main thread for our LED light showdown. Please DO NOT post here, as it will clog the flow of the thread. All questions, comments, and constructive criticism should be posted here: Comment Thread for LED Showdown . That being said, LET THE SHOWDOWN BEGIN!! Throughout the night, I will be posting an objective, tools used, and many photos of both vivariums. Please subscribe, and come back often. I will do updates as regularly as they warrant. I promise you this: Everyone will know A LOT more about lighting, by reading the included information. Do miss out on the info you may want/need.

To Start Things Off, how about a poll?????? The poll is located at the top of this page. Your vote is anonymous. No one will know who voted what. Personal data are not collected. (you hear that NSA!)

In the below photograph, which viv is lit by the real Jungle Dawn™ Bulb? Is it the right, left, or you really cant tell. Answer to follow in a day or so. Get voting!! This is for the benifit of ALL frogers who have ever had a question about light.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

I am happy to report that both of these builds contain nearly 100% items bought from Dendroboard sponsors. Items not from sponsors are: egg crate, clay for background, silicone (all from Home Depot orWalmart), 2 plants in each viv which were purchased from a Dendroboard member, and the generic bulb, also purchased from a Dendroboard member. In all, there are 11 different plant species, plus 6 different cultivars of tillandsia. All plants used do respond to light quality in one way or another. Stay tuned! Lots of photos to follow.

Special Thanks to those who helped with product choices, advice, and some great prices! These are in no particular order. Any observed pattern, order, or font is completely accidental.

DB member B-NICE
Lightyourreptiles.com DB member Venutus1
NEHERPETOCULTURE.com
Tropicalplantz.com DB member Jason Desantis
glassboxtropicals.com DB member therizman2
Josh's Frogs
DB member Bonnielorraine


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tank # 1 had 2 plant related issues that needed to be repaired. I will post a pic tomorrow, at "lights on"

Tank #2










Both vivs were constructed as close a possible to each other. Most of the plants are pretty close to each other. The ghostwood was another area that was tough to match up, but I think I found two reasonably close pieces. The background and both sides of each viv is also coated with Folius Moss Mix. The tops of each viv have been replaced with 1/8th" clear glass with a 1/2" vent above the door. The front vent was left alone. If/when these get frogs, I will put no-see-um mesh over both vents.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Plant list (each viv has 1 of each):

Alsobia dianthiflora
Begonia 'little darling'
Bergina 'overture' (selected as foliage only)
Columnea. 'Lava flow'
Dischidia ovata
Peperomia rotundifolia 'prostrata'
Hoya lacunosa
Hoya curtisii
Hoya finlaysonii
Cryptanthus bivitatus 'ruby star'
Cryptanthus durell
Tillandsia 'humbug'
Tillandsia ionantha x stricta
Tillandsia 'Mexican'
Tillandsia 'Guatemala'
Tillandsia 'Van Hyningii'
Tillandsi brachycaulos


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

*Re: Let there be (LED) Light!!! Jungle Dawn™ vs. a generic alternative (pic heavy)*

Here are some comparison photos, side by side, of most of the plants in their received condition/coloration. Tank # 2 will always be the photo on the left side, tank #1 will always be on the right. This is not necessarily the same as in the poll photo. Tank #2 on the left, Tank #1 on the right. All photos, unless otherwise noted, will be with no flash, under their respective lights, and with ALL camera settings the same.

































































Here is the updated photo of Tank #1, as promised in the previous post. I didn't like the positioning of a hoya and a tillandsia. This photo reflects how the arrangement will stay for the remainder of this experiment.









And last, for now, an updated side by side photo with all plants in their permanent resting place! Thank you to everyone who is looking through this thread! Next up, so preliminary data on the lights, themselves. Also, please don't forget, all 3 walls in both vivs are coated with Folius Moss Mix. We are in for some cool surprises based on another project I started several months ago. Oh, that reminds me. Any guesses on which bulb will grow moss better? The "other" project I am referring to will hopefully tell us just that. I will be starting a 3rd thread just for the moss/LED experiment. Please look out for it, AND, as always, please make any and all comments, complaints, and constructive criticism over at my discussion thread for this experiment. You will find that thread here: Link to discussion thread


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well, we have barely scratched the surface of this experiment and already, I've hit my first surprise. Both bulbs, according to the people who supplied them to me, are rated at 13 watts. The bulb on the right, a 60 diode bulb, is drawing at 10.5 watts on my meter. This bulb IS the Jungle Dawn trade marked bulb! Kudos to those who voted correctly. The bulb on the left is our generic 64 diode bulb, and it is drawing 10.4 watts on the same meter! I understand there are different qualities of meter. Further, and I already admitted this, my meter is a less expensive one. But for comparison, they seem close. BTW if anyone wants to donate or even loan a better meter, please PM me. So, what gives here? Are the Chinese rating these at 220 volts? Would that make a difference? What are some opinions of this measurement? Please follow this link to my discussion thread to offer opinions etc..... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...d-someone-say-something-about-led-lights.html


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hello folks! I had a chance to test out my lumen/foot squared and Lux meter this afternoon. OH what a difference a light makes!!! I started with a baseline from one of my T-8 fixtures. From 12 inches away from the light, I am getting a max reading of 105 lum/ sq ft and 1,126 Lux. Next came the generic, 64 diode LED bulb. Again, measured at 12 inches from the light source, and at a huge improvement over T-8, this bulb metered at 181 lumen/ sq ft and 1,942 Lux! I was impressed, to say the least. Now for the mind blower. The 60 diode Jungle Dawn™ bulb measured, at 12 inches from the light source, 305 lumen/sq ft and 3,277 Lux!!! As I have stated before, my instrument of measurement if far from what a scientist would use but, the comparison difference is obvious. The technique used on all three tests was the same, my meter layed on a flat surface which was suspended 12 inches from the ceiling of each respective enclosure. I will continue to monitor, and share these measurements to see if there are any differences as the lights wear. Any thoughts, comments, or constructive criticism? Please follow this link for all discussion. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...d-someone-say-something-about-led-lights.html


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Today is the official start of our experiment within an experiment. Using a seed starter plug, in a seed starter tray, I have sowed 2 heirloom cherry tomato, and 2 cauliflower, seeds. I have placed both trays on top of the substrate in each viv. This may give us some early insight into any differences between the 2 different LED bulbs. I will post photos as soon as they sprout and then, regularly so we may see the results. As always, please direct any comments, questions, or constructive criticism to the discussion thread: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...d-someone-say-something-about-led-lights.html


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well, I have finally gotten the hang of this camera to post a few pics that I'm not embarrassed by. I'll keep practicing and posting. Meanwhile, there are some color differences beginning to show. First, a Hoya, located on the left hand side, towards the top. Second, a Tillandsia 'Guatemala' which is getting it's first hints of red. Both are in the Jungle Dawn viv!
all photos taken with Nikon D70 with Nikkor 50mm lens, set on manual iso=800 f/2.8 and 1/250.
Comments, constructive criticism, requests? Visit the discussion thread here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...d-someone-say-something-about-led-lights.html

Jungle Dawn viv









Generic viv









Jungle Dawn viv










Generic viv









Jungle Dawn viv









Jungle Dawn on the Right. Generic on the Left











Comments, constructive criticism, requests? Visit the discussion thread here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...d-someone-say-something-about-led-lights.html


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Well, it has been 12 days since starting the seedling experiment, and I am posting to report some dismal results for the generic bulb. As you can see in the photos, both seedlings have fallen over, apparently growing too tall to support their own weight. My best guess: they were growing too fast in an attempt to find more light.










The seedlings under the jungle dawn bulb are slightly shorter, but stand fully erect.










Any thoughts? Head over to my discussion thread: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...d-someone-say-something-about-led-lights.html


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Some random shots of the Jungle Dawn viv. This is the enhanced 13w bulb. The 15w Glow and Grow is coming up soon. Stay Tuned, for I have what could be a worthy competitor. The generic viv simply isn't providing much photo worthyness. Both seedlings have fallen over and rotted in the generic lit viv.In the Jungle Dawn lit viv, both seedlings are bending quite a bit, but the plants still appear healthy. If anyone is interested in any photo's, please let me know. I'm open to suggestions on shooting these vivs. I have a Nikon d70. It has a 50mm Nikkor lense. I have it set manually to f 2.6 and 160 iso


Edit: I'm also starting to see some greening on the clay/abg background. Remember, I coated it with Folius moss mix. We'll see what develops.

Discussion, comments, 8itching? Head over here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...omething-about-led-lights-10.html#post1401697


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have lost another plant in the generic LED enclosure. It was the Bergina 'overture'. It simply melted away. Despite not having it's leaves wet. Also, since it is now obvious that the Jungle Dawn bulb colors Cryptanthus quite well, I switched out the 2 C. bivitatus 'ruby red'. The one in the generic tank is a much nicer specimen. I felt it deserved better light . Also note worthy is that new growth is comming from the 3 Hoya, in both vivs, both the Peperonia prostrata and dischidia ovata too. In the Jungle Dawn viv, the Alsobia dianthiflora is showing quite a bit of new growth, as are several tillandsias. Here are some more random pics.

I reported a bad value in my last post. ISO was, and still is 800. I did change to f 3.5 and 250. It does eliminate quite a bit of light washout. These are all Jungle Dawn viv pics.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

It's been a little over 5 weeks since my last photos. So, here is some new photos, my first update since consolidating the showdown into one viv that was slightly over planted, to see how much life the JD 13w could handle. As you will see, colors are coming rather fast. Note the last posted photo on the Cryptanthus bivitatus, and see the huge difference in color. Also, a Tillandsia van hyngii is approaching full bloom. I'll post full bloom pics when I get them. There isn't much growth to note, other than a nice network of epiphyte roots. It's also fair to say these plants are slow growers. Enjoy!


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