# i feel stupid...



## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

ive had these leucomelas for 2 years now and was thinking they were males for about 1 year or more they were my first frogs
i noticed that the one was getting very fat all of the sudden must be the rather large springtail population in their tank i thought and the one male was calling almost nonstop between lights on and about noon well i go to move their cocohut today and what do i find but 9 leuc eggs... been thinking they were males for 1 year now and i wasnt the wiser well heres a pic








they all have 1 white spot on one side i havent seen this with my azureus is this good?
all of the sudden i have 17 eggs on my hand between imitator azureus and my leucs who now are a pair all within a month have 3 breeding pairs of frogs and maybe a 2.1 tinc trio (and 14 tads)  im not sure how old the eggs are they could be from today or they could be a week old but im guessing they are quite that old since i dont see any development 
sorry now im rambling it happens when im excited :lol:


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

ok thats a bigger pic


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

They look like at least some of them might be good. There appears to be a division occuring in a few of them, or at least that's what it looks like. They are still too new to tell so give them a few days and look for a ridge to start forming. Don't feel stupid, leucs are a tricky bunch to sex and just be glad you have some eggs! Now be ready because the factory is in production...


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

it doesnt matter if they are good or not im just very happy to have them  lol factory if this is the averege cluthch size factory is right, my azureus seem to have a small production line. they lay about 4 eggs (averege) every 8 days since their first clutch october 27th 
its very exciting :lol:


oh yes this morning i was watching the male pick off some of the left over fruit flies from yesterday and the fat one (now i know its the female) came up behind him and was putting her front foot on his back or she would go next to him and just touch him he didnt seem to get the hint i guess and jumped on his back a couple times for a couple seconds then jumped off again...is this courtship? if so this is almost like what my one tinc was doing which i mistook for agression since i had never seen this before... the only time i noticed my azureus getting ready to lay eggs all that happened was the male hopped up a couple inches above the female and called a few times and went into the cocohut and waited for the female to finish eating and then she went after him and they layed eggs... maybe they are just a boring couple 
thanks for looking


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

always think 6 months ahead. at avg 1 egg/2 days w/ one pair you`ll need to house 45 tads and 45 frogs till they are ready to sell(just the azureus to get them 3 mos old) and be ready to house them for another 3 months till they do sell(if it takes that long) so that is 9 tanks for the azureus at 10 frogs/tank(may be a little too many frogs / tank at 6 mos old). if your temps are on the lower end this will all take longer to get them out of the water and up to saleable size so figure a possible 50% give or take. now take into account the # of cultures you`ll need for that many frogs and you`ll find it takes a LOT of space to house offspring from only a few pairs. if your leucs layed 9 you can figue 1 egg/day to 3/4 eggs per day. your looking at about 1 1/2 x the space for your leuc tads and froglets/juvis. imitators arent as bad as you can do about 8 froglets/10gal and use 16oz cups for the tads and your closer to 3 a week and an 8 week cycle(egg/froglet) and 45-60 days before saleable(on avg.)
i love math!
now if you were able to keep all your offspring and they matured at 1 year old you could have about 90 pairs your first year x 180 offspring/year. when you get into phyllos and epis who can have more eggs/year than there are days it gets interesting. who says we can`t save the world`s frogs? we may not be able to save their environment but we can definately keep them going if provided the means( if it was a "national priority" meaning the government actually set aside a fund for it).
congrats on the success!!


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

yes, i need to start stocking up on 10 gal aquariums and may try my hand at building my own tanks  and will be experimenting with making my own fruitfly medium soon.
i dont plan on getting phillos (maybe a pair of orange terribilis) or epips for a while though i would like to move more in the direction of thumbnails like vents, lamasi, intermedius, imitator, and pumilio (even though they arent thumbnails) although that may be a little ahead of my experience level right now


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

*Good time estimates*



frogfarm said:


> always think 6 months ahead. at avg 1 egg/2 days w/ one pair you`ll need to house 45 tads and 45 frogs till they are ready to sell(just the azureus to get them 3 mos old) and be ready to house them for another 3 months till they do sell(if it takes that long) so that is 9 tanks for the azureus at 10 frogs/tank(may be a little too many frogs / tank at 6 mos old). if your temps are on the lower end this will all take longer to get them out of the water and up to saleable size so figure a possible 50% give or take. now take into account the # of cultures you`ll need for that many frogs and you`ll find it takes a LOT of space to house offspring from only a few pairs. if your leucs layed 9 you can figue 1 egg/day to 3/4 eggs per day. your looking at about 1 1/2 x the space for your leuc tads and froglets/juvis. imitators arent as bad as you can do about 8 froglets/10gal and use 16oz cups for the tads and your closer to 3 a week and an 8 week cycle(egg/froglet) and 45-60 days before saleable(on avg.)
> i love math!
> now if you were able to keep all your offspring and they matured at 1 year old you could have about 90 pairs your first year x 180 offspring/year. when you get into phyllos and epis who can have more eggs/year than there are days it gets interesting. who says we can`t save the world`s frogs? we may not be able to save their environment but we can definately keep them going if provided the means( if it was a "national priority" meaning the government actually set aside a fund for it).
> congrats on the success!!


Aaron - You trying to scare him away, or what??? ;-)

I am glad to hear another breeder let people know that it "SHOULD" take approximately 6 months from egg to the time a froglet is ready for sale. It does take a lot of room and time to raise these guys and ALL of the information Aaron is giving you are pretty accurate. As he points out, there are some frogs with shorter times, and it also depends on who you are selling them too. 

Congrats on the Luecs!!!!

Melis


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

thanks  he didnt scare me away lol i apreciate the info aaron gonna be pretty helpful thanks again


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

clear sterilites work well and they are cheap, just make sure they are escape proof. they are stackable if you have limited space and don`t need to watch them all the time. they don`t work well for thumbs unless you fit the top w/ glass and make sure the tank can`t warp and create gaps. glass w/ glass tops seems to be the only thing i could use to keep those suckers(imitators) in their tanks. shoebox sterilites seem to work ok w/ glass tops as the aren`t big enough to warp. 
best of luck!


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Joe,

Glad to hear he didn't scare you away. Healthy frogs can be prolific breeders. 

I have had luecs for 4-5 years and only got them to breed this year. So congrats on them. 

We use the 6.5" and 9.5" containers from Superior Enterprise to raise our froglets in. They are stackable, and a lot less expensive than 10 gallons.

Melis


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

oh, sorry, no. i just had to go out and make 40 new tanks about 3 months ago, w/in a week, because i didn`t plan and it`s still fresh on my mind. 
no, just trying to help. a lot of people get overwhelmed quick and we loose them, i just want him to know what he`s in for and help him out. 
that`s one thing about this "hobby" is that people can have too much before they know what`s happening, get overwhelmed and give up.
sorry, i`m not good at conveying my intentions in writing.


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

melissa68 said:


> We use the 6.5" and 9.5" containers from Superior Enterprise to raise our froglets in. They are stackable, and a lot less expensive than 10 gallons.


are these the 190oz. containers like joshsfrogs has?how long can you keep them in there till they outgrow it or dont they? i believe i remember him saying he keeps 2 per container i just dont remember for how long
i bought one of them to see how large it was and used it to keep my imi pair in till their tank was ready now its just culturing springtails and growing a plant

oh i didnt think you were trying to scare me as much as help to prepare me for whats to come


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Aaron - ouch..... I haven't been working for 10 months, and that hurts.

Yes, Josh sells those containers. The most important thing is keeping them clean, and changing out the substrate regularly. If you keep them clean you can raise 2-3 froglets in them easily.


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

ok cool ill have to pick a bunch of them up soon 
im guessing you just use spaghnum moss as a substrate?
its almost turning into a factory here my imi's leucs and azureus were all gettin busy this weekend

thanks for all the help 

oh i looked at your site i must say i really like your blue jeans i dont see them to often


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

just an update all the eggs are developing nicely not a single bad one
i also found a clutch of bad eggs in their tank about a week old or so not very observant am i


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