# introduction



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Hey guys! 

I'm Will, and I just signed up on here and thought I'd let you know why and say hello.

So my wife and I were at the Long Beach Aquarium on new years, and they have a pretty cool PDF display. Having only seen them in pictures before I was completely blown away, and started searching for more info on availability and care, thinking I might set up a tank after I knew a little more.

So 4 days later my wife brings this home:





































Needless to say I'm totally stoked! 

Anyhow, I'm not a total die-hard frogger, at least not yet , but I'll be lurking around and doing my homework on here while I get used to caring for my new little hobby.

Thanks for the look.


----------



## Rambo67 (Jun 12, 2006)

The first thing many will suggest is to split up the different inhabitants. The dart and the gecko have different care requirements and health issues/concerns can possibly occur. 

Also, you may want to read up on false bottoms and gravel/LECA under the substrate, as your substrate will become mush after all misting. The pros will no doubt have more to say, but you should definitely look into splitting up the different species.


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Actually, I was going to say that the substrate and the burl the other frog is peeking out of, look awfully dry, at least in the photo. Darts like it pretty damp, and the humidity should be around 80 to 100%. The plants are good, and your lighting seems to be about right. 

What are you feeding these new fellows? I don't know about the gecko and the other cute frog, whatever he is, but the D. tinctorius will need fruit flies, which you will find much easier and less expensive to culture on your own. I'm sure you have read the care sheets here about vitamin dusting requirements, and you didn't come on this forum to immediately get beat up with negative criticism, but I do agree that mixing, especially before you know what mixes, isn't a good idea. It is likely that both the gecko and the other frog have different temperature, humidity and food requirements from the dart frog. 

Well here you go, already having to expand the herp hobby. On the up side, you can blame it all on your wife, and when her kitchen becomes a culture center for live food, she can't complain. :wink:


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Hmm....interesting comments for sure.

All three inhabitants are fed small dusted crickets (1 each) every other day, and the gecko gets a dab of apple sauce twice a week. The humidity is around 30-44% at the top, but there is always condensation on the glass below the tops of the plants, which is where the dart hangs out, so I'm thinking I'm good there (I'm gonna add another humidity guage at the bottom to be sure ). I mist it 2-3 times a day, and water the plants with 8-10oz once a week. The root structure is insane when you look at the bottom of the tank. 8) 

This tank has been established with everything you see in it for 2 years, so I know everything is OK in regards to all their needs, but I do appreciate all comments/opinions. 

Can anyone help me distinguish what kinds of plants are in there? I'll try and get some better pics up this afternoon.


----------



## frogmeing (Sep 23, 2005)

*helpful hints*

Hi,

While I am by no means and expert I do have to agree with what the others have said. I was also thinking that while you have alot of floor space the dart does not actually have much to climb on and it appears it has nothing to hid in/under. For the most part mine hide when they sleep. I would put some logs on the ground, some partially lifted so it can get under them. Also I would recommend getting some fruit fly cultures started so you have a constant supply as sometimes pet shops will run out of crickets for a few days, plus a constant diet of crickets may cause internal problems do to the small spines on the legs of the crickets. Also the times I do feed pinheads they eat waaay more than 1. They pretty much eat as many as they can, same goes for flies. Another thing I was wondering is what type of lid you have on there. If it is all screen I would try to cover a portion of it, the majority actually. That will help keep the humidity up. Hope this helps.

Anthony.


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Some close-ups of the plants would be nice for ID. I think I recognize a Tillandsia blooming on the upper left. Is that an orchid in bloom on the right? My eyes aren't what the used to be. The plants are certainly under "control" for having been in there for two years, and the substrate looks new. 

I was just joking about feeding the other "cute" frog in the burl. I actually thought he was a ceramic replica!!  What is he? 

One small cricket every other day doesn't seem to be adequate food for the dart frog, although he doesn't seem particularly skinny. The tinctorius are eating machines. The largest crickets I've ever seen any of my darts take are pinheads, and then they eat a lot of them, as was mentioned above. They get them only occasionally as a treat. That set up is very interesting, especially if it has indeed been established for two years with all of the same plants plus the original mixed animals. It's very beautiful, but I'd have questions about the total truth of its history of being established for two years. There are too many little clues to the contrary. It's pristine, for one. I've been wrong before, though. Occasionally, I even admit it under duress.  This time, I hope I'm wrong. I never like to see anyone lose their animals.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

I am begining to think you guys might be onto something here...the plants are definately well rooted, but the diversity of animals in it vary quite widely; it appears the tree frog is a grey, which comes from the eastern US, the gecko is from Madagascar and you all know where the dart is from. :shock: 

...at least they all seem to coexist peacefully lol. 

I snapped a few pics last night but have not yet hosted them, and they are at home and I am at work now so they won't be up 'til tonight. There is a mix of live and plastic plants in the tank; y'all have named the plastic ones  , anyone know what the big colorful one in the middle is?

This whole thing is totally new to me, and the learning curve is pretty steep. Before I get in over my head anymore I'm gonna just follow the care instructions that were passed along from the PO and see if I can just keep everything alive for now...any recommendations as to local-to-me recource(s) here in northern Orange Coutny Ca would be quite helpful as well.

I have an idea floating around in my dome about maybe setting up a seperate viv for the dart (and possibly the gecko, as their temp/humidity needs are similar) and just leaving this one as a terrarium with just the tree frog in it; it certainly is a beautiful tank. Of course, with that there is a room problem as we also have a 110 gallon reef tank and a 40 gallon seahorse tank, not to mention the corn snakes in the boys' room and a "pond"(more like big bucket lol) on the patio.

I'm a total fkn noob.


----------



## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

Guess I'll be the one to break the mold and say that you _can_ keep both small geckoes and darts together. Looks like you have a tall enough tank to keep a different temp gradient--the gecko likes it warmer and you should put some horizontal basking sites up high in the tank. I also agree that you need to get some moss on that bare substrate. It certainly helps if you have husbandry experience for the different species in your tank, but how many of us have jumped into this hobby and not made mistakes? 
Watch the humidity (dart like more, geckoes less)and consider using a fan/screen on the top to regulate it. 
The big plant in the middle is Fireflash and has great color--it can stand wet roots and will grow tall.
Keep us posted on your lessons learned--we all can benefit from it.
Scott[/i]


----------



## amphibianfreak (Jul 21, 2004)

Dont take this personally Scott but just b/c they can be kept together doesnt mean they should be kept together. Much less by someone that has not kept either before seperatley. I can see someone with experience with both the gecko and darts respectively in their own seperate vivs and then after learning about them possibly putting them together but this guy just jumped in and right off the bat has two completly different kinds of frogs and a gecko living together. Personally, for me anyway, making different vivs for different frogs is more than half the fun.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

@ Scott: Thanks for the positive reply; it's the first one I've gotten so far and I appreciate it. :wink: 

@ amphibianfreak: your response is pretty much what I expected...so much for encouraging people to join the hobby. :roll: 

Anyhow, of all the pics I took yesterday (I suck at photography), I did manage to get one kinda 'arty' one that has my reef tank reflecting off the glass, and since I've never met anyone online that isn't a pic whore here you guys go:










I am happy to report that everyone in the tank is happy and healthy, and I've increased the dart's diet to 2 crickets every other day and I'm looking into getting some ff cultures for him/her too. I'm gonna stand defiant in the face of you all and show you guys that my tank can sucessfully house all three of these guys, so as far as I'm concerned let the flame war begin.

...thanks to you too, Patty, you have contributed positive info as well.  


Updates to follow as events warrant.


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

lol-frogz-- You sure got addicted quickly. :lol: It usually takes at least a month for future plans to overwhelm you. I have two more paludarium tanks in the process--one a 180 gallon (where I AM going to mix two different dart species for the first time,) and my daughter's old 55 gallon long, for another paludarium, bringing the total number of vivariums of various sizes up to 17. But this has taken me 8 years of always wanting something new and different. (I also have various desert lizards and a couple of leopard geckos in other tanks, but the dart frogs are the real heroin--so save some room for more.) I'm wondering how soon I'll have to move into the horse barn myself. One day, I may have to just go "cold turkey." 

Don't put yourself down as a total "fkn noob." (I hate the term, "nooby." It should be on the list of censored words.) Every one of us started out without experience, and most of us still have a lot to learn. That's what we're here for. One can read all of the care sheets in the world, but everyone needs a little bit of personal feed-back and encouragement, as well as sharing different experiences, and opinions. 

Looking forward to your photos.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

slaytonp said:


> lol-frogz-- You sure got addicted quickly. :lol: It usually takes at least a month for future plans to overwhelm you.


In for a penny in for a pound, right?  

I know none of you know me, nor should you for that matter, but I signed on here for a reason: I thought (after checking out all the appropriate forums :wink: ) that I might be able to find some help here.

To that end I in fact I kinda like it here, you guys seem for the most part pretty cool.  

...not to stray too far off topic, but in case you are wondering who I am, here's me in _my_ natural habitat:



















and here's one of the reef tank:










Keep the feedback coming guys. 

8)


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

This is MY habitat. We don't even live on the same page!! I drive a four wheel drive pickup to get anywhere at all, especially in winter, and couldn't see my nearest neighbor if I stood on the roof with binoculars. 8)


----------



## amphibianfreak (Jul 21, 2004)

What i said has nothing to do with encouraging people to join. If people want to get into this hobby then let them, its a great hobby. But when people come in (especially on an impulse) with no experience and put multiple animals from different habitats together it just bugs me, as well as other people too. Its obvious you are set in your ways since you got one or two posts that you liked what you read. The amount of time you have had these frogs and the gecko is hardly long enough time to access if they are healthy or not.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Yeah....whatever dood. If you go back to my original post you will see (if you have any reading comprehension skills at all) that I was _given_ this terrarium and now I'm trying to play catch up. :roll: Thanks for playing, please drive through. 

@Ms. Slayton: WOW!  That is a beautiful view. 8) 

...out here, we keep our snow an hour away in the mountains, and if I drive 20 miles the other way I can go surfing.


----------



## amphibianfreak (Jul 21, 2004)

Personal attacks are uncalled for. I could have easily been nasty in my posts but I wasn't. I was simply stating how i felt and how things are from the info given. I can read/comprehend just fine thanks, I appreciate your concern though.


----------



## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

amphibianfreak: If you just want to argue with lol-frogz and not discuss the topic in hand don't bother.

lol_frogz: Sorry if some members have come across as rude or agressive it's not the general attitude of dendroboarders :wink: 

Welcome to the hobby! 
have a good read thrue the care sheets there's a ton of good info about dart frogs there.

*and to all: remember keep it friendly! if you cant stick on topic or be pleasent then don't bother posting *

Again wecome to the hobby mate 8)


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Thanks MJ. :wink: 

I am here to learn and have fun, and I knew what to expect before I registered, so I'm not gonna sweat the haters. 

I will keep this thread updated as I learn and hopefully make progress.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

Hey everyone i just started on this board about 2 weeks agoa and i was welcomed with open arms from everyone, i too was shunned for having mixed species of dart frogs, unfortunatly my pet store only cared about making the sale and i found this website too late and now i have about 10 different species of frogs in a 75 gallon tank, also i have 24 frogs in that tank. But everyone understood that i was misinformed and that i was willing to learn. I have done a lot of work to get rid of my mixed species and to split them into different tanks. But when i first got into frogs i was like lol_frogz where i was told that i could get a pigmy chameleon and put it with a dart frog. After i learned more about frogs and the fact that there are serious health concerns with the fecal matter of Chameleons that could get a dart frog sick. I made a decision that i like dart frogs more than Chameleons. But we all need to understand that lol_frogz is new to the hobby and has come here for advice not to be hated. If he wants to feel dumb and stupid im sure there are chat rooms that specialize in just that, me personally i found myspace to fill that void. But lets all be nice, if lol_frogz wants to mix species thats his decision. Its his hobby not ours, so be nice and inform him of potential problems. 

lol_frogz did your wife get that tank from craigslist, i was trying to buy the frog from him and he said he was waiting for a woman to decide over the weekend and i assume that was your wife, concrats.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Probably, was the guy in Irvine? She found it on the Recycler.

...and thanks for understanding where I'm at with this whole thing, too.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

yeah I guess he put it the recycler as well. I'm glad that he sold it to someone who ended up in the dart hobby. hopefully you end up as addicted as the rest of us. I used to have a coral tank but I deffinetly prefer dart frogs. thanks.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

No one else?


----------



## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

The tank really is nice! I'll go ahead and throw out my advice on improving the tank first, and then throw out my personal opinions and let you take from it what you will. Before anything else however, I must welcome you to the hobby! It's a great one, and has honestly given me thousands of hours of enjoyment, and will probably do the same for you!

So, to improve the tank. The tank truly is beautiful, but in order to better suit the needs of the inhabitants (always our top priority) some minor changes should probably be made. First off, some moss should be added to the top of the coco fibre (the current substrate). The substrate looked a bit on the dry side in the pics and seemed to be sticking to the frog. That can be bad news. Go to your local hardware store (Lowes if you have it) and get some Long Fibred Spaghnam. I get the "Mossers" brand from Lowes and it looks nice, is cheap, and works great! Rinse the moss out and get it moist using a speghetti strainer and then apply a layer on top of the coco fibre. This will serve several purposes. Firstly, you won't have to worry about the coco fibre sticking to the frog, secondly it holds humidity much more effectively than the coco by itself. Next--I would add some low-growing foliage plants to the tank. These will add some much-needed hiding places for the frog. There are many small species of peperomia that will look great in your tank that you could plant along the back and side perimeters of the tank. You'll actually find that the tinc will become much more active this way... they tend to be bolder if they know they have a hiding spot right around the corner. Some philodendron species would make nice additions as well.

As to feeding concerns, I'll double to fruit fly reccomendations. At 2 crickets every other day, the frog is simply not getting enough to eat. If the tank has indeed been up and going for 2 years, then there might be some microfauna (tiny insects that are living in and around the soil and plants) sustaining the frogs for now, but it won't last. Until you get some ff cultures, I'd increase the pinhead cricket feedings to tossing in a dozen and waiting until they disappear. The Grey's Treefrog will probably prefer 1/2 crickets, which can also be consumed by the day gecko; the two probably aren't getting much nutrition from the "small" crickets you're offering at the moment. 

In regards to my personal opinions--I'm like many others on the forum, and I don't advocate the mixing of species without a plethora of experience with each species. However, you seem quite set with keeping your tank the way it is, so all we can do is try to work with you and teach you how to best care for your captives. Let me express one concern, however. There is a 99% chance that the gtf (grey treefrog) is wild caught. This presents a host of possible problems for the dart, and the dart could present probelms for the gtf. Each has its own bacteria and parasites, and they could prove harmful to other species. A panacur dose would be a good precautionary step to take. Additionally, I would secure some branches towards the top of the tank to provide for some basking spots for the day gecko. This will help keep the gecko at the top and the dart at the bottom, decreasing the chances of a confrontation. As for the gtf, it is nocturnal and shouldn't have many meetings with either of them. A large bromeliad placed higher up in the tank would become a favorite hiding spot for the gtf, and would help it feel more secure in light of the looming day gecko. 

Hopefully this advice will help you along with the caresheets and other advice this forum can and will provide for you. This is a great hobby to be a part of, and I welcome you to it! 

Good luck with everything, and keep us posted!


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Wow, thank you for that very informative post Josh! That is exactly the kind of detailed info I need at this point. Your advice is duly noted, and I will put it to good use.  

I have noticed the dart frog flicking its tongue at the substrate, so it would make sense that there are little creatures living in it. 
Although there are a few hiding places for the frogs, I'll go ahead and add some more, along with an additional basking perch for the gecko. What is the general consensus in regards to having lace rock in the tank? I'm thinking it would provide a hiding spot and also maybe grow algae/moss on the top?

Anyways, looks like I'm off to Lowe's! :wink:


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

...so the little tree frog actually came out of hiding today and I got a couple good shots of it:




























Can anyone tell me for sure what it is? He/she is about the size of a 50 cent piece if that helps at all.

TIA!


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

It looks like a Gray Tree Frog to me. (Hyla versicolor, or H. chrysocelis.) I see the wartiness, the lighter buff markings under the eyes, and it should have an orangish color on the back of the thighs, if I'm not totally off base. 

I still think that photo of it peeking out from the burl with what appears to be a simpleton smile, is hilarious. I really DID think it was a fake! :lol:


----------



## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Never seen a frog look so much like a toad.

I think it is a type of spade foot. Goofy things.


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Gray tree frogs are rather "toady" looking because of their "warts," but the size, habits, markings, and what appears to be horizontal, rather vertical pupils (not sure from the photos) and history of being called a "tree frog," all point to this. Neither would any spade foot toad that I'm familiar with, be up on the branches like that. My experiences have been with the desert spade foot however, not any of the exotics, so I won't exactly bet the ranch on being right. Let's see if someone who actually keeps them comes along.


----------



## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

slaytonp said:


> Neither would any spade foot toad that I'm familiar with, be up on the branches like that. My experiences have been with the desert spade foot however, not any of the exotics, so I won't exactly bet the ranch on being right. Let's see if someone who actually keeps them comes along.


True true, that didn't even click for me until after you said. Jeeze, getting bad at my young age.

My brother (for what ever reason) keeps spadefoots, they do nothing but try to hibernate their entire captive life away. Never see them aside of him digging them up. 

So now that I take a second glance at the pic, yeah looks a bit funny to be a spade foot.


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Not a grey treefrog, I'll stop that one right there. Continued the ID in the ID thread here....


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

We have both bean "bearded" by higher authority, stchupa, but I still wonder about the toady looking warts that seem evident to me on these photos, as they apparently did to you, but not on Pacific tree frogs. :? lol_frogz needs to look closer for the orange flash marks before I'll quit entirely, because I'm seeing some things that others are not seeing on the photos. (Cataract surgery coming up soon? Quite possibly Medicare approved? A distinct possibility, I'll admit.)


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm not seeing any signs of flash marks, but it's (or possibly, she) is not sitting in such a way they'd be obvious in a photo if they were present. I've posted photos in the other thread that should clear up the Grey TF bit, and come up with a likely ID of _Pseudacris (=Hyla) regilla_. alifer provided an excellent link to a site that has photos not just of their variability but also belly shots.

It's easier for someone to ID animals they've worked with  I worked with a LOT of grey TFs, and also a number of eastern _Pseudarcis_ cousins so it's easier than taking random guesses. Knowing species ID characteristics is always a bonus. Now keying out native tadpoles? Not so easy...


----------



## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

No one commented on his beautiful pet rabbit. One of the nicest i have seen in some time. I want one so bad it hurts. What year was the little guy born? GTI? Im very jealous of you.

Oh yea nice tank too


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Thanks for the ID help there Corey; I replied in the other thread.












dr_octagon said:


> No one commented on his beautiful pet rabbit. One of the nicest i have seen in some time. I want one so bad it hurts. What year was the little guy born? GTI? Im very jealous of you.
> 
> Oh yea nice tank too


Thanks! It is a 1981 Scirocco; VW first introduced it in 1974 to replace the Ghia, and the Golf (Rabbit) followed later in the same year. Mine is an '81. 
The GTi was not introduced in this country until 1983, and in 1985 they went from the A1 platform to the A2, so GTi's were only available for 2 years on the A1 platform.

If you are serious about wanting to find an early Rabbit, feel free to shoot me a PM, there is an entire network of people I can put you in contact with. :wink:


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

I'm especially impressed with what's under its bonnet. :wink: Or in this case, peeking out of its boot?


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

:lol: ...that is the obligatory 'me-in-the-bay' shot, taken after I yanked the stock engine/transmission and before I dropped in a built unit with double the horsepower. :shock: 8) 

I may be totally in the dark about frogs, but I know my way around these little cars pretty well. :wink:


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

stchupa said:


> My brother (for what ever reason) keeps spadefoots, they do nothing but try to hibernate their entire captive life away. Never see them aside of him digging them up.


We're off topic now, but someone brought me a spade foot once, thinking I'd be thrilled. It was sort of like keeping a pet mud pie.


----------



## ccc (Nov 22, 2006)

You make me laugh, Patty! :lol:


----------



## dr_octagon (Jan 7, 2007)

I should have know it was a Scirocco. The body is a little longer but i just figured it was from your modding of the front that made it look longer. They are not very common. Ive only seen one in real life.

Dont have the money for a rabbit as of right now but ill keep you in mind. 84 GTI would be my dream. Had a 74 bug but i blew up the engine and sold it. Had a 74 van but somone called the town on my family saying we were using it as an unliscenced shed if you could believe it. It was too much work with not enough time so we junked that too.

Anyway i guess i never welcomed you to the forum so welcome. i dont post much but if somthing strieks me ill pop up. Good luck with your viv. im sure you can pull it off.


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

lol_frogz said:


> :lol: ...that is the obligatory 'me-in-the-bay' shot, taken after I yanked the stock engine/transmission and before I dropped in a built unit with double the horsepower. :shock: 8)
> 
> I may be totally in the dark about frogs, but I know my way around these little cars pretty well. :wink:


At first I thought you were planning to run while your wife steered, but managed to keep that smartass remark to myself until now. My favorite car of all time was a '34 Chevey coupe with a rumble seat I bought for $50.00 when I turned 16 in 1950, so you can tell where my vehicular tastes petrified. It also had a crank in the front in case the starter wouldn't work. I cranked a lot. Her name was "Leapin' Lena." 

Sorry about the misguess on the frog that Corey corrected. At least it was better than the first one, "ceramic."


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

lol, no worries on the incorrect guess... even if its not the actual frog, proposing a species an having it shot down by someone who knows will actually help narrow it down... because then you know something it isn't  Most critter gurus tend to be very narrow on what they are a guru of... such as a PDF guru rarely is a guru of amphibians of other places (thats a lot of guru). If we'd known it was originally a native frog, a site like fieldherper.com might have yeilded an ID faster than Dendroboard, but there are couple of people with native critter experience to narrow it down... I thank my herpetology class (had to be able to ID every state native herp species in the lab) and a short contract job with MD Dept. of Nat. Resources for my native species talents.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

OK, here we go:

***UPDATE***

After figuring out on my own that no one knows jack **** about terrariums at the local nurseries, and several hours of looking up various plants and mosses (I have absolutely NO experience as a gardener) as well as following some advice on here (thank you for that btw), I have made some minor changes to my tank.

Have a look, and please let me know what you think; I feel like I've been dropped into the middle of an ocean and don't know how to swim and I really do appreciate all y'alls feedback.  

On to the pics:














































Happy frog:










Smiling gecko (I named him Gumby  ):










Thanks again guys, I'm actually starting to learn!


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

My only plant worry is the ivy... ivy grown to be a house plant doesn't tend to do well in vivs... they rot out. I've had the experience of having ONE type of ivy (which really doesn't look a whole lot like typical ivy, LOL) that actually did well, and it was a cutting from a frog tank where the ivy had done well. Small cuttings that are allowed to root have a better chance of doing well. I wouldn't be too worried because if they rot out, the Selaginella will be more than happy to take over!!

Not sure about the moss... this looks like the type that tends to fungus over a reek havoc on tanks (the fungus gets so bad it can cause problems with some sensitive plants). Preferably I'd swap it out for some sphagnum moss and/or leaf litter (I doubt your tank will have enough light to grow live moss once the plants grow in).


----------



## mike 1124 (Dec 15, 2006)

I would just like to say I think its a shame that some peple struggle to get responses but as soon as someone does somthing peple dont like he gets the same response millions of times. not only on this forum but most others as well. lol_frogz I think you did a wonderful job on your first viv.


----------



## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

mike 1124 said:


> I would just like to say I think its a shame that some peple struggle to get responses but as soon as someone does somthing peple dont like he gets the same response millions of times. not only on this forum but most others as well. lol_frogz I think you did a wonderful job on your first viv.


More often than not, the reason that people don't get responses is because the question has been asked some 500 other times, and a simple search would bring up volume of discussion that would invariably answer the question. 

Also, with the addition of the care sheet section, questions that are continually asked are even easier to answer.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

...and here I thought the forums were here to hang out and gain personal knowledge from one another. :lol: 

@Corey: That _is_ sphagnum.  Did I F up....should I try and get live stuff?


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Oooooo when you mean its sphagnum moss, do you mean its this stuff? I haven't used that stuff in years, but I really doubt if its actual sphagnum moss... my sphagnum has never looked like that or been that crunchy dried. I didn't even know they were calling it sphagnum moss until I looked up the dried mosses you find in pet stores...

Long story short, that stuff is crap and will rot in your tanks. When we talk about sphagnum moss in your tanks, we're talking about this stuff, long fiber sphagnum moss, also known as orchid moss due to its use as a potting medium for orchids. Not available in chain retail pet stores because they have yet to catch on, you can occasionally find it at home depot in the houseplant section (not milled, you're looking for long fiber thats compressed into bricks) or you can buy it from a number of the sponsors here on the board (Black Jungle, AZDR, etc). When dried its a light tan color, NOT green!

And, if you give them the right conditions, you may get this...








This is some dried long fiber sphagnum moss in my _Mantella_ sp. 'Blushing' tank that is coming to life around the pond... where its wet and gets the light it loves.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Ayup, I got the stuff in the first link







....I have removed it all, but left all the plants/live moss that I got in there. I'm off work tomorrow and have found a place close to me that carries terrarium/vivarium stuff, including fruit flies, and I'mma go over there and ask questions 'til they throw me out. :lol: 

Thanks a ton for the help! :wink: 

In case anyone cares, all inhabitants are alive and well.


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Eh, just a warning, we get a lot of people in here saying "well the store selling the PDFs I got told me..."

PDFs are kinda in a league of their own in the herp world... its a hobby that developed separately and PDFs have only recently hit the herp mainstream... this means there is a LOT of not so good information/bad information/people who don't know what they are talking about. One of the best things about this board is that there are definitely some people on here that do know what they are talking about, usually catch mistakes on the board, and give pretty good advice out the first time around... I would recommend hitting up the board with your questions than a shop with people who probably don't have much more experience than yourself...


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Point taken; I was gonna bombard them with questions regarding the ff's, like what conditions are required to keep them etc. so I can make a decision on weather or not I can do it at home (space, temperature requirements etc.).

Besides, at this point you guys are prolly getting tired of all my questions anyway.  :lol: 

I am fully planning on running what they say by you first regardless as I'd rather buy the products from the people that support this hobby than some retail store. :wink: 

I'll probably buy some ff's tomorrow, and then order the cultures from Ed's if I can properly handle it at home.


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Take advantage of our care sheet section, it's coming along and has a lot of good info. I'd recommend reading thru that info to form a list of questions on the various topics. A lot of your questions will be answered here, and if you posted questions answered in the relevant sheet, you'd be pointed to them anyways....

After you get your list of questions, sort them out into the forum categories they'd best be posted in... vivarium questions in Parts & construction, plant/substrate questions in Plants, food and feeding questions in... well... food and feeding, lol. These will allow you to have your questions answered in a faster and more complete matter than if you posted all the questions in a beginner post, as the best people to answer questions on specific tops don't always wade thru the posts in the beginner section. The beginner section is just that, for beginners, but people tend to post into that section solely, rather than posting into more appropriate sections, and thus might not get as fast, or as good a quality response as they could if posted in the more correct section.

If we got tired from one poster's questions, most of us wouldn't be here.


----------



## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Whelp, today was interesting; I went to the two biggest reptile/amphibian/insect/spider stores in SoCal, and I can report the following:

*I know more about pdf's than they do!* :shock: :lol: 

The first place even had a few darts, so I was thinking 'cool, they can help'. Wrong. I started asking questions and they were like 'uhh, I don't know'. Great. :roll: 

So you all can pat yourselves on the back.  


I had fun tho, and saw some pretty cool stuff; I even saw something I had never even heard of before: a cave spider. Pretty wild, here's a pic of one I pulled off google:










Anyways, looks like I'll be getting all my supplies and information from y'all, and a huge THANK YOU to those that have been so helpful already! :wink:


----------



## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

AKA "whip spider." My son has been working in Ghana as a geologist, and has a collection of photos of these guys he meets in the caves and rocks, some as big as salad plates. 

Most of us love being here, just because of people like you, not that we're not through learning, either, but it's generally better than the advice you get at a pet store, with a few exceptions where there is an employee who happens to be into Mantellas or darts personally, but generally, they are minimum wage employees that like animals, with a little general training in what to say and how to sell. 

It seems to me that in the past few years, the chain pet stores have been pressured into more responsibility about how they keep their animals and educate their employees. This is improving, but darts remain rather more of a specialty than a lot of other herps, I think.


----------

