# D. granuliferous and viv(1st tads transported?)



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Female granuliferous in their coco hut.



















angled view to show layers.










Front on shot










Big Bromeliad:










Although I know nothing about the natural habits of D. granuliferous I tried to design this as a forest edge viv which is neither open nor canopied but has elements of both. Notice 1/2 the tank will get sunlight thru the window late day. The 60 watt bulb warms that corner of the tank around 80+ depending on height off the ground while the right side gets down into the hi 60`s. tank cools to lo 70`s at nite. 
wish me luck, this is something new for me.


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## Curt61 (Jan 16, 2007)

Hey, where did you get a brom that big that doesn't have spikes on it? How much did it cost and where did you get it? I love what it looks like, Good luck with your tank and frogs, Curt.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

menne nursery, $30, it has small spines.
thanks.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Aaron, that looks very much like an aquarium tank??? What happen to your "state of the art" sterilite plastic tubs


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

When I caught this species in Costa Rica, we found a mating pair climbing up a small tree. The male called from a hi point and the female would climb up another few feet every call he made. The area was covered heavy in low, knee hieght plants and leaf litter everywhere. There was no running water anywhere near this point. I mention that b/c a lot of people mention that they find them near moving water.

Good luck with them. They are an awesome frog that I wish I had.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Antone, your awesome!!!! Now if you could give me a general idea of probable day and nite temps and whether there were any breaks in the canopy for sunlight or if it was dappled and I`ll be your friend forever!!
I`m very jealous!!
Thanks!
Ya Gary, I figured it`s time to start sprucing up the upstairs so I can start spending time up there too! I don`t like to be away from nature for long even if it is caged. Heck if I could get outdoor internet and liveable temps I`d never set foot in another human viv again! :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Really I just couldn`t find a tub big enough! :lol: 
I`m planning a couple more 75gal tanks for upstairs. They just support so much more springs and isopods and allow for better working area, temperature gradient and all around less maintenance, better viewing to learn from etc. I`m back to bigger is better too. now if i could only afford it. I`m thinking of a wall stand to hold 6-8 75gal tanks that will fit the living room. maybe stained 2x4`s or something.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

That all sounds awesome. Just don't forget to invite us all over when it's done


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I really like that people got to see it in progress, close to it`s worst before I started really working on the environment and not as much on the frogs. I`ll be more than happy to have people out a couple times a year and whenever they are traveling thru.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Glad that helped you some Aaron. The part of CR we were in was the Osa Peninsula (Where vittatus were originally found I believe) and it was mid June. The spot the grannies were in was heavily shaded by canopy. Barely any sun getting through. The temps under the canopy were low 80s with really high humidity. At night, the humidity didn't let up but the temps were probably mid to low 70s. Was the worst weather to sleep in.  Can you imagine sticky/moist sheets to sleep under? Yuk!

Also, don't be misled by my earlier statement. I know people have found these guys near running water. I've even seen pics. But the pair we caught, was the red morph and no where near any running water.

Good luck!


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2007)

frogfarm, here are some shots of granuliferus habitat: http://www.frognet.org/gallery/Costa-Rica-Frogs


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## NCSUdart (Oct 1, 2004)

always nice to see these


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

I sent you a pm that i hope helps, i am very excited for you, best of luck!


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Very neat... don't see those often.

What is that substrate? coco chips?


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## nyfrogs (May 1, 2005)

aaron looks sweet! you have so many frogs you have to start movign them upstairs :lol: glad to see that tank got good use. las ttime i saw it it was empty :wink:


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

yes, coco chips for the substrate and leca underneath.
Thanks for all the posts, very helpful.
now, just by chance, I did purchase 2 dumbcane plants(go figure, must be an omen) when I bought the brom. Just thought they looked neat, I had no Idea they used them for tads and they didn`t even have labels that they were dieffenbachia. I think I must be looking thru their eyes when I get stuff or something, just too wierd I`d buy 2 dieffenbachias not nowing what they were and not knowing grannies use them. 
I want to get it down to their light level but I`m a little worried about killing the broms, not as worried as providing grannies the right habitat. should I remove the big brom and replace it with the dumbcane? the smaller will get late noon sunlight thru the window so I think they`ll do fine.


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## nyfrogs (May 1, 2005)

aaron whatever you do dont eat the dieffenbachia :lol:


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

i`m well aware. I always wondered how it would affect a dog that barked too much :lol:


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

No i think they will be more likley to raise tads in broms then dieffenbachias, the thing is dieffenbachias have such a small water holding cpacity.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Aaron, if I were you, I'd see if I could get early morning light instead. Late evening light is much hotter and is usually the cause of burning plants. I have to deal with it every day in my growing area. The plants that face west have double the shading cloth/material than the plants facing east.

I would leave the broms too. Just try putting a fluorescent light on it. If I had to guess, I would bet the foot candles in the spot we were in was right about 1200. That seems shaded outside but in a viv, that will look pretty bright. You may have to get a light meter in there.

Your broms can live on 1200 foot candles, just don't expect too much color from them.

Good luck.


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

And the dieffenbachias prob have to get to a size to large for the viv to become decent tad rearing size. I got to trudge through many of these plants in imitator habitat. Imitators really really like these plants in the wild.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Yahooo!!! 
I found one malformed partially decomposed tad under the honeymoon hut today. What I didn`t find was the other 5-6 that look like they were there recently. I`m hoping she transported a couple tads from the clutch.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

Thats awesome news . Good luck on those !


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

Awesome to hear man... good luck, I'm rooting for you!


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Ummm... I think I'd like to suggest a waiting list if ones not already established and I'd be happy to be at the top! :lol:


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

Congrats Aaron! Glad to see Michelle is letting the frogs travel to the upper level of the house! :lol: Good luck with the grannies. I am sure they will do well for you, like all of your other frogs.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

Best of luck! These are a persoanl favorite! I hope they do well for you.


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Super congrats Aaron




sbreland said:


> Ummm... I think I'd like to suggest a waiting list if ones not already established and I'd be happy to be at the top! :lol:


Ummm, I think that spot is already occupied :wink:


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Very cool... Congrats!


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

Just out of curiosity from the more experienced froggers - how long do you think it will be before these frogs become more available? I would think that these frogs would be sold through more private means...


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

Well, you'd probrably have a better chance getting them from Europe (Holland, Germany even Switzerland has a few breeders of these) I got mine from a local pet store that had these sent to him by a fish wholesaler, so I got the call and I had to go all the way back to my old stomping grounds NYC.. and the gentleman sold these to me for a whopping $25 each there were 5 in the lil 5.5 gal tank so I had $100 and made the purchase .. the guy even threw in the 5th frog for free after I told him what they needed to eat... That was 1990 and I haven't seen any of these again.. they were very active frogs, calling, courting feeding and fighting.. they actually bred for me in 1992 and I now have one remaining (old man) F3 born in 1998... I had a ton of eggs and a total of 9 froglets of which 8 made it at least 1 year.. This frog has been on my radar ever since. After going to Costa Rica and to see their native habitat and seeing the other color morphs.. orange and green.. I can only hope that with the emergence of this frogs' beauty and to hear that this is some of you frogger's favorite frog .. maybe we can get some breeding.. Peter Keane, JungleWorld...


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

rozdaboff said:


> Ummm, I think that spot is already occupied :wink:


Yeah, you're probably right... I'll take second!!  :wink: :lol:


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

Forgot to mention... I really like the viv, especially the larger bromeliad. My looks like a similar design: http://dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 71&start=0

Is it a 75g?


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Sign me up for third spot :lol: , I would love to get some of those.
Jason


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Aaron, 

from what I understand the F1s tend not to have very good color. I wonder if supplementing the parents diet with nutra-rose (sp) or cyclop-eeze (sp) might help the froglets to attain the proper pigment.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Yes grannies use Diffs, but note that those plants get HUGE. To get the "axils" large enough that the grannies use them, you're looking at a pretty decent sized plant... 4'+. Heliconias are also used the same way... but the teeny tiny little ones that would fit in our tanks are not large enough to hold the water needed... you'd need a nice person height or taller. If you had a walk in greenhouse deal, they'd both work great... otherwise, you gotta make due with what you've got. A lot of the thumbnails in the hobby use heliconia or diffs as well, but will really use any water holding container (broms, film canisters) given the chance. In the wild, other plants may be part of a niche used by another frog (like how imis and the species they imitate tend to breed in different plants). My understanding from friends who've seen grannies in the wild is that how close they are found to water has to do with the habitat they are in... which can get pretty harsh (personal experience here - and yes, it sucks to sleep in that weather). In some cases, they are near the waterfalls due to the humid microclimate it creates. In areas that aren't as dry, or during wet seasons, they may range away from these.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

female granny on eggs










going to get dad to do his job, I hope



















What she left behind!


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## trow (Aug 25, 2005)

Very cool.I wish you had a close up of them there sexy frog's.
Also love the fact that your setup is very simple and yet producing result's.My kind of setup.
goodluck


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I try to leave them alone. I`m getting better w/ the macro though. Hopefully I`ll get some better pics.
Just an update: the clutch is forming, doesn`t look the greatest but it`s my first granuliferous clutch so it`s hard to tell. I also found my first tad in a brom axil wriggling around and it had 2-3 food eggs in w/ it.


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## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

Well done Aarron I'm really pleased for you man! 8)


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Thanks!! Now if I could only find some histo, lehmanni, sylvaticus, speciosus and vincentei I`d be psyched!! :lol:


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## MJ (Jun 16, 2005)

3 out of 5 mate :wink: :lol:


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## Peter Keane (Jun 11, 2005)

FrogFarm said; Thanks!! Now if I could only find some histo, lehmanni, sylvaticus, speciosus and vincentei I`d be psyched!! .... Europe, gotta get em from Europe.. I almost had a deal for 5-6 lehmanni which were here in this country by an unamed party yellow banded lehmanni, I had the cash ready to go I was going to fly to them to pickup and the guy decided to keep them.. They are and have been on my "To-Do" list for over a decade.. I've never had the yellow-black banded lehmanni.. I've been to Frog Day in Europe once by chance and was astonished at the selection they had there.. the second time I went on a tip that some Yellow-banded lehmanni were going to be there and had to start CITES ppwrk 7 mos prior.. but the guy couldn't get his paperwork together and they sold locally in Germany.. but they had red-headed histrionicus there.. some others.. and I saw my first mysteriosus in person... Peter


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

quick update: Out of the 5 forming 3 went bad and 1 hatched and has been transported. 1 more to check on later. There is also another clutch in the honeymoon hut.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Man, from what I remember the previous owner telling me he couldn't ever get em to do anything... looks like you figured something out! Congrats... now where do I sign to put my name on that list again!?!?


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## addam4208283 (Feb 19, 2004)

nice. congrats on gettng them to produce.
these are great little frogs
ADAM


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

Aaron, are you going to try anything like using surrogate pumilio parents for the grans, once you start getting non-transported eggs?


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## costaricalvr12 (Oct 5, 2006)

Any updates?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I think They are still feeding tads, probably another batch by now. Nothing good to report yet.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

I think the most of us are rooting for you, best of luck.


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## frogcrazy (Nov 23, 2004)

Do you have any pics of the tads and how big they are?


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

Update...


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

I was just reading this the other day and was curious as to how it is going as well.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hope these guys are still going strong. So you holding back the first few or letting some go? either way...if/when there is a list i sure hope i can get on it  Good job on all the other breeding also, escudos and what not, hopefully in spring i'll be able to return to expanding my collection...in which case i'll be in contact. Still need those super blues and escudos....oh and the grans too ofcourse


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I think they are finally settling in. I have found one clutch of 3 (1 fertilized) sitting on an open brom leaf the other day. First outside the honeymoon hut. They also don`t mind me moving around the tank anymore. The male is out constantly and the female even stays out while I feed now. 
Either the 2nd set of tads died and they`re trying again or there is a froglet or 2 hoping around in there. I`m hoping for a froglet or 2. 
First group stays here, next ones go out for trade. If I get that lucky.
Super blues were "discontinued(I sold the pair)" as was most of my collection to make room for the pumilio.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

sorry 126 missed your question, no surrogate trials. The first clutch wouldn`t eat mom`s eggs. I`m waiting till they get it right.
Oh Dave, ASN stewards would get preference :wink: if I made a list whether or not they would be accepted being of unknown lineage or status.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Guess i'll have to look into ASN then 
Another guy gave me the heads up on the superblue situation...bummer, but understandable. I'm currently downsizing, reorganizing my collection. Fewer tanks but larger tanks, concentrating on only my most favorite species from now on. 

Be nice to see the grannies move in the direction that darklands did, from extremely rare to now being available if you make the effort/have the paitence...(and the cash).


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Dave that would be nice except for the fact that the reason Darklands/Blues are doing better now is because of additional breeding stock being introduced...

That's much less likely with grannies, but who knows? Maybe CR will allow for a well managed INIBICO type farming of a limited amount that would allow the influx of them that combined with management like ASN would provide could continue the population and also help train up new Oophaga keepers so the success rate is higher...


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

KeroKero said:


> Dave that would be nice except for the fact that the reason Darklands/Blues are doing better now is because of additional breeding stock being introduced...


Corey, what's this you are talking about? There haven't been anymore Darklands brought in, only Caucheros. Now if people are mixing the Caucheros, that's unfortunate, but no more Darklands came in. If you are saying that the breeding stock is increasing because enough people have finally bred them and now more adults are contributing to the breeding stock, I think that's kinda the direction Dave was implying he'd hope this would go.


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

sbreland said:


> KeroKero said:
> 
> 
> > , I think that's kinda the direction Dave was implying he'd hope this would go.



Thats not gonna happen with Grannies. I can think of only four people who have pairs right now. I know there must be a few others but its gotta only be a few. And not only is there a lack of adults in the hobby they just dont produce that well in captivity.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I'm referring to the two groups that have been rather successful breeders that were brought in a few years ago via research (Frye/. They've been a significant boone to the population and a large reason for their recent "boom". Before that there were only a few misc. blue pumilio that did ok...


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Ok, yeah that's what I thought you meant, but like I said, that's along the same idea as what Dave was hoping for. As Greg put though, which is painfully true, there just aren't that many around. I know there are more than just a few here and probably more than we know, but the fact that they just aren't breeding well and reproducing sure makes the Darkland scenario unlikely. I have been doing a bit of research on Grannies on some of the German and Dutch boards, and honestly I think that some of the reason there is a lack of success is in the viv presentation we provide them... it's just not what they are used to in the wild. They have some success over there (not all of them are smuggled animals  ), but what I have been reading is more accounts of trips to the field in CR and detailing the population densities, environments they are in, temps/ humidity, habits at various times of year and why. Very interesting reading, if you understand German and Dutch! Space is of course an issue as it always is, but I think the space thing is more of an issue of not being able to reconstruct a similar environment in a small space than it is that they need vast amounts of space. There are other things that I have yet to see anyone provide (some of which would be possible) that may help to increase breeding success that I can try and translate and put here if Aaron wants or in a separate thread if there is interest.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I think it would be a really interesting read for all of us. Grannies occur in a really (climatically speaking) interesting area for a PDF to occur, and I think their natural history will give us all a good lesson about frogs. Having been in the general area where they occured (for surfing, woo) during the dry season, I was rather suprised that PDFs could be found around there! But all I found when I looked was a lot of birds, some lizards, 3 sloths, and an agouti


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

I'll work on it, although it takes a bit of time to translate and make sensible (and no promises it's going to be perfect). One quick thing that I remember off the top of my head was the temp of activity... 68-72. Very narrow range and lower than I would have suspected, but they stated that prime activity was in those ranges and between 6AM and 9AM... higher temps than that and they seemed to hunker down in rock fissures. I'll translate the whole thing and see how readable I can make it.


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

Hey man I would also be very interested to hear what the Dutch and Germans have to say about this frog in captivity and the wild. I have come across things in the past on frogs that I have not been able to read and it is very frustrating so it would be awsome and a great help to have a translator on the board.


Here is a shot from the population that I visited. I found the first ones right in front of the thick stuff to the right of the river in this picture. It was hard to listen for there calls because of all the white noise the water made. So I just started looking for the bright red bodies. I was about to give up to tell you the truth. Then I thought I might have heard something but figured I was just hearing things and sat down on a rock to sulk. After a couple minutes of sitting there taking a break I look out and about 12' in front of me I SEE THIS BRIGHT LITTLE RED HEAD STICKING OUT FROM A DEAD LEAF! For some reasonin all my excitement.I would come to find out later I wound up flinging my hat off and tossing my sunglasses off into the leaf litter to never be found again. So after my experience looking for pumilio at that point I figured there was another one very very close by to this little guy. And sure as shit there was another one that looked to be the female just off to the left of him. You can kinda paint your own picture of the event with the photo below. The temps and times of activity you mentioned are good information. Both days that I visited these frogs it was a little later in the day and VERY hot. I had figured I would have seen more if it were cooler and earlier. 










Here is another detailed habitat shot just to the right of the photo above









This is a shot of the same river that I found them at just much further down it. They were found higher up in the mountain.


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## frogsoftheworld (Oct 20, 2007)

were was that at, and did you keep the frogs or put them back.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Ok, so here is some stuff off of one of the German sites... I think it has the best info. Sorry if it's kinda hard to follow, but some of this is hard to get translated and their sentence structure is differnet than ours and I'm not sure what some of the words are, so it takes a little reading and thinking to grasp what they are saying, but this is quality stuff IMO...

"According to the IUCN (2006) this type is endangered (vulnerable). The vulnerability of the species is due to the continued fortschreitenen (?) habitat loss and habitat fragmentation of the relatively small area of distribution (less than 20,000 km2). 

The loss of natural forest by the großflächgen(?) cultivation of the economically important oil palm (Elais guinensis) on the Pacific side of Costa Rica's is probably only stoppable through the creation of public reserves or private protected areas. Some populations are living in protected areas (Reserva Forestal Golfito, Parque Nacional Corcovado), so they are not endangered. In past years low population density was observed, however, it is likely because of false monitoring methods. This type has a pronounced seasonal activity cycle during which the animals in the dry season almost completely withdraw and hide their activities. Since most observations and counting took place in the dry season (November to May), only a very low population density was demonstrated. These seasonal fluctuations make an accurate population estimates difficult and may yet result in an underestimation of the actual population size. The animals are not as good as Cultural _ (culture and culturing is used a lot to mean breeding I think)_ O. Pumilio but sometimes also extensively cultivated in plantations (NIESZPOREK, pers Comm), and secondary forests. On the outskirts of natural retreat areas, such as rivers, populations are sometimes in a relatively strong disturbed habitats, as compared to livestock grazing or roads. In the prevailing intensively managed palm plantations, this kind has no chance of survival.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

More (and the good stuff)...


General behavior: 
Oophaga granulifera is an attractive resident of the foliage layer of the rain forest. In many ethological parameters such as area and nesting behavior biology, it is a typical representative of the genus Oophaga and most likely similar to the type O. Pumilio., but O. Granulifera clearly is more shy and lives much more hidden. The activity patterns of the species has a pronounced seasonality. OSTROWSKI visited during the years 2003/2004 several habitats of an O. Granulifera in Dominical (Province of Puntarenas, Costa Rica) and strong fluctuations in the subjective collectable population strength was observed. In January at the height of the drier seasons (Verrano) only early in the morning (6-9 pm) could animals in very small numbers be observed. Within three days there were only 6 animals. Call activity was not observed. In May at the beginning of the rainy season (Invierno) could be counted within one hour up to hundred animals and their activity was limited to no certain time of day and many shouting little men could be proved. By the end of June the call and also the general activity decreased in the day course again and it only few animals were to be found. Then from the end of August the second activity maximum with raised call activity was noticed. This seasonality of the activity phases might narrowly hang together with the seasonal variations of the pacific climate in Costa Rica. During the dry months from November to May the animals withdraw with declining precipitation to small and bigger feeder creeks and are hidden there in humid rock fissures or under roots. In especially dry periods the biotopes seemed deserted and only in the early morning hours active animals were sporadically observed. Then with increasing precipitation the animals are active the whole day and are found in the biotope in large numbers. When the threshold level of the rivers maximize at the height of the rainy season, the animals withdraw again. During the drier periods, high reproduction is not possible due to the risk of losing water and to the lack Phytotelmata. Since the vegetation on the forest floor is also declining in many places increased Prädationsdruck (?). A narrow period of activity is therefore surely sensible. Some variants of the Pacific Dendrobates auratus show those with the seasons correlating seasonal activity phases. That is O. Granulifera even at the height of the rainy season temporarily withdraw, it is probably with the specialized reproductive biology of the species and the preference for brook habitats. At the beginning of the rainy season increased the humidity and the temperature drops slightly. The water levels of the brooks run lower and rivers are still not particularly high (low noise in the background biotope). Given the nature that the frog relies very strongly on acoustic signals (Courtship and territory delineation), is necessary for good conduction and audibility for successful courtship and mating to be possible. If Male animals begin courtship and call the whole day, they are still audible at low water levels of the Brooks. The females are now almost all at once receptive and put their clutches. As the rainy season progresses, the rivers swell, and thus strongly increases the level of background noise along the streams. A communication via acoustic signals is now no longer possible. Also, most of the females are tending to the first larvae and due to the production of Nähreiern (?) are no longer receptive or respond to calls of the male courtship. For males, it is no longer possible or sensible to call to delineate areas and attract females. Calling males are now barely heard and all the animals are less active. The activity is mainly limited to the foraging and females feeding larva. Then at the end of the rainy season (from September to October) the females have brought up her first young animals and are ready to mate again. Now there are also increasingly calling males and the activity times are extended. It can then increase again observe animals in the habitat to deal with onset of the dry period, the animals will be completely withdraw. 

According to observations (Calls): 

The calls vary slightly in different populations. Depth calls at the southern variants and lighter in the northern forms. Also, the frequency differs from north to south.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

more....

Habitat...

We visited different sites of some variations in the province Puntarenas. O granulifera is a pure plain inhabitant on primary woods or old secondary woods depends. We could never prove animals in plantations! The frogs are strongly bound to a certain brook biotope. Small to middle brooks flow into brook beds from volcanic rock. Besides, the brooks have dug themselves in the rock, so that the complete bed exists of stone blocks and slabs. In the horizontal fissures of these rocks the animals find humidity and find a place to hide. Dieffenbachien or other similar Araceae existing always (brood plant to MEYER).
The brook edges were shaded by dense forst and had a steep rise to them. The soil was rocky, densely covered with a lot of foliage and the area was covered in animals. In brooks without such structures we could find no O granulifera!
Not the forest but the condition of the creek seems also to determine the occurrence. Therefore, an occurence in plantations, as partly reported, seems to me unlikely. We visited the biotopes in March, 2004 (drying time) and could find only in the early morning active animals. With rising temperature the animals withdrew into the rock fissures. It was not called in March! (OSTROWSKI pers. Observation)
I have found the animals also in a small banana plantation. Even in a surely high population density of 15 animals on a surface of 30 ms ². Partially adult animals also sat 3-4 together. Any body of water, like pool, brooks, etc were absent.

Temperatures:

During the day to 25 °C, with 20-22 °C Most active,
Night sinking about 4-5 °C
Annual temperature variation minimally (1-2 °C)
On account of the living space, along shaded chill brooks, the animals are very sensitive to heat!

Humidity:

80-90%, in the morning and in the evening 100% (fog), even in the drying time the humidity directly in the brook is barely less than 80%

Trimming:

The animals were to be found in the biotope in pairs.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

So Greg, the things that you point out that I think were really important... the sound of the river in the background and what part that plays in the breeding. The fact that they were right there next to the stream in the rocks and leaf litter. The habitat in your picture... all these things. I haven't seen a lot of grannie vivs, but I have yet to see one set up to resemble anything like a rocky streamside, and I have never heard anyone suggest a drying out period followed by rainy (heavy misting) period to simulate natural climate changes and to stimulate breeding... just a few things that I thought were interesting.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Very interesting... thanks for that Stace!


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

housevibe7 said:


> Very interesting... thanks for that Stace!


Yeah Stace rules. That was awsome!


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

No problem guys... hope people are able to get some good info from it.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Great info! Thanks Stace.
They have been bred w/ no background noise. I think they are keying in on the nite drops. The tank is always heavily fogged as the temp drops overnite. humidity reaches 100%. By midday the glass has dried and i`m sure the humidity drops. I see the same crepuscular activity levels.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

From the sounds of this thread, it seems like you are doing everything right! I'm sure you probably already are doing it but dry/wet cycling might help a bit too.


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

I know someone who was able to breed these things in a 10 or 20g but after that I dont think they had much luck for a long time but they pulled it off. Now they are in a really big tank with flowing water and are breeding. I know of someone else who is keeping a couple pairs in a semi large tank. Mabey like 55g? but they also have a waterfall and they produce well for him.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Updated pic of the granny tank this A.M.










Male calling this A.M..

I`ve been able to see 1 tad about ready to come out of the brom axil. They have been laying more clutches out in the open lately and seem to have acclimated well.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

great to hear Aaron... keep us posted..


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

unfortunately, it`s going to be really hard to get a pic but I have my first granny froglet crawling up the brom leaf today!


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## Abbathx (Aug 15, 2007)

That is awsome!! good luck aaron  glad to see you are being successful with them.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

PRETTY COOL Aaron. Can't wait to see the little guy.

Let me know about Saturday if you're going to be around.


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Very, very cool, Aaron. Congrats.  

Rich


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Great news Aaron!!


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## stinkysab (Feb 21, 2008)

do you have a picture of the pond in the viv? i wanna see it :]


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

At the top of the page.


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## stinkysab (Feb 21, 2008)

frogfarm said:


> At the top of the page.


you dont have a closer view? it looks so nice and im thinking of making one like yours. :]


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

No, sorry, I don`t have a closer view.


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

So how is the granny froglet doing?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Unfortunately the first one goes to science for dna testing. He/she had spindly leg and went to drown itself in the brom axil after being out a couple days. It couldn`t ever lift it`s body. Minor spindly though compared to my almirante`s been giving.
Hi hopes for the next batch though.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

well atleast is a start, best of luck with the next clutch.


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

Oh no!!! I was really rooting for that one. Oh well, at least you have a very good start.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Sorry the pics aren`t of the best quality. That isn`t an escudo in w/ that female granuliferous. 
YESSSSSS!!!!!! Finally!


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## crb_22601 (Jan 12, 2006)

Well let me be the first to congratulate you on the successful morphing of a granny... Now I guess you will have to see if you can get it to an adult. But defiantly very cool. Good work Aaron.


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

Congrats Aaron! Why couldn't I have seen that when I was there the other day?


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## verbal (Sep 8, 2004)

Hey Aaron,
That's awesome, man! Congrats. As always, great to see you at NAAC.

Ryan


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

great job Aaron!!!!


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Very, very cool.

Grats!


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

:shock: 

Awesome news!


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## uespe1018 (Apr 10, 2007)

!!!! Congrats !!!!


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## brog32 (Oct 28, 2005)

Congrats Aaron........ That is great news!!! Best of luck


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## almazan (Jun 6, 2004)

Aaron, you can ship em to me when ever your ready.... :wink: lol


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Great job Aaron! Continue to keep us updated.

Nate


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Sweet!
Dibs!


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

so if you could bill it out (time, food, research, supplies, etc.) what is the "equity" in that little guy.

just curious and thought it might add some insight into why cb can be more pricey than wc and imo worth the extra costs.

congrats, its always nice to see hard work paid off.

sean


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The "equity" on this guy is a rather large amount and up there with CB histos and lehmanni... and the price for CB animals is high for all of them for the same reasons... true eggfeeders that haven't been legally exported from their country of origin in a long time. Any WCs of these species are usually either very old, or illegally smuggled.

Typically WCs come across as cheaper initially because they are brought in at such a low cost (massive amounts tacked onto a animal exportation)... but are often unhealthy and in the end if you count up the $$ spent on each surviving frog (medical expenses and the money lost from dying animals) it can often be well over the amount of a CB animal if available. A CB animal on the other hand, you often have the entire history on, tend to be hardier and adapt better to captive surroundings, and if you get them from reputably keepers they usually have few if any of the health issues the WCs have. You're also not influencing wild populations by taking adult breeders out of the population to have that cool critter in your living room, but that's more peace of mind if you care.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Very old indeed. I lost the male some time back and produced one froglet. Well the froglet is now hopefully adult. I found a clutch two weeks ago out in the open on a brom leaf, which was odd. I just looked in the hut and found a clutch of 3 eggs. No formation yet. I also haven`t seen any calling. Although "he" has the same bluish coloration of the male and is smaller than the female. Keeping my fingers crossed!!


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

Wow! Aaron, Congrats and good luck.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

That's great news . Hopefully the eggs are good and the little one is male . I'll bet your glad you didn't get rid of them now .


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