# Tree Walkers Internation



## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

I am considering joining Tree Walkers Internation for their Amphibian Steward Network. Is this a good idea? What are your opinions on the program? Amphibian Ark did suggest the program, but I was hoping for the Dendroboard stamp of approval or not.

I just want to do more than just have the pets (which I love). The idea of breeding an endangered species is just honorable and anything I can do to help efforts is a plus.


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

im hoping (and am pretty sure) that there isnt a single DB member that doesnt like TWI/ASN
haha so yes, they are great


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Yeah it's prolly a lame 'newbie' question (only been on the board for like two months) but I have been doing a lot of reading lately since my pair started breeding.

Their pages and documents on their site are pretty nice pieces of information. What experiences have you had with their organization?


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

myself? haha actually have not done anything with them..keep forgetting to join but there conservation and animal registering that helps with bloodlines, helps the hobby and the amphibian world as a whole


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## Occidentalis (Jul 11, 2009)

Definitely a good step for the conservation minded hobbyist / academic hobbyist.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

pygmypiranha said:


> Yeah it's prolly a lame 'newbie' question (only been on the board for like two months) but I have been doing a lot of reading lately since my pair started breeding.
> 
> Their pages and documents on their site are pretty nice pieces of information. What experiences have you had with their organization?


There are a number of members of TWI here on the board... all those for example whose name shows up in blue on the active bar..... 

I'm a member.. 

I'm not sure what kind of feedback you are looking to get from others but outside of helping to keep the populations as genetically diverse (if you choose to participate in ASN its not manadatory), or creating amphibian habitat, you get a spiffy online magazine (Leaf Litter). 

Ed


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## Marty71 (Nov 9, 2006)

I think there are quite a few good reasons to join TWI and the ASN network. I initially joined TWI for the leaf litter magazine and the fact that it was a small amount donated to a worthy cause. I have since begun accessioning my animals into the ASN program but I have to admit I have done it at a pathetically slow pace. I think it's a very important program, but one that will only truly gather steam when people (such as myself) fully commit to it, register all of our animals, and make a habit of keeping detailed, thorough records of our frogs, our frog purchases, what line, who we got them from etc.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

im going to join, actually i already tried but there wasnt a submit button for my ASN form. im just waiting to be emailed back about it. im sure its something stupid i missed.


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

How would you get your status updated below your screen name that you are registered with them?


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## Marty71 (Nov 9, 2006)

Nice.

User CP.
Group Memberships (under control panel).
Should have option to join TWI/ASN group.

I don't know the mechanics behind it. If it's not an option it may be due to the fact that you just joined, and they are still processing it or they may have to notify the board. Not sure...


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## pygmypiranha (Jan 1, 2009)

Just joined today! TOTALLY AWESOME!

Now I just need to start submitting paperwork for the Steward project.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

pygmypiranha said:


> Just joined today! TOTALLY AWESOME!
> 
> Now I just need to start submitting paperwork for the Steward project.


Great news! Welcome aboard! If you have problems with the PDF, you can just send an e-mail with naswers to all of the questions. We are working on a new website which will have web-based forms fo rregistration and animal accessions/updates.

Be sure to join the TWI/ASN group on DB too! - Duh1 I see you already did


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

i joined ASN and the group on the board but my name still isnt blue and doesnt say TWI/ASN under it. did i miss something?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

thedude said:


> i joined ASN and the group on the board but my name still isnt blue and doesnt say TWI/ASN under it. did i miss something?


pm Kyle and he'll add you.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

thanks jubjub


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

does ASN require a certain level of "membership"??

I see there are several levels, but at a cursory glance I didn't see if there were fundamental differences in benefits of the different levels.


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## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

all levels enjoy the same benefits, the higher contributions just give you a warmer fuzzier feeling inside


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

bellerophon said:


> all levels enjoy the same benefits, the higher contributions just give you a warmer fuzzier feeling inside



well nothing wrong with warm and fuzzy  So I guess I will be sending in my membership in the next couple of days then.

That there is a program like ASN in place over just "save the frogs, send us your money" is the clincher for me. I prefer active participation over just throwing out feel good donations.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

And getting a subscription to Leaf Litter is a good benefit as well... 

Ed


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

I've been wondering about this myself. 

From the standpoint of a frog registry, I see great benefit.

I am confused, though, as it seems that there are differing opinions on the viability of reintroducing frogs. In the first page or so, TWI/ASN itself states the main purpose for registering frogs is to maintain a captive breeding population for later reintroduction into the wild, if ever necessary/appropriate.

On the other side of the argument, some people state that any herps that have spent any time in captivity would not EVER be appropriate for release into the wild. 

So, who would decide if these frogs could be released into the wild? What do they have to say about TWI/ASN? Do they embrace the idea or not? What makes TWI/ASN anything more than an AKC for frogs?

I don't mean any of this disrespectfully, I'm really curious as to how everyone feels about this.


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## Imperial_Aquatics (Aug 27, 2009)

mtolypetsupply said:


> On the other side of the argument, some people state that any herps that have spent any time in captivity would not EVER be appropriate for release into the wild.



That isn't an easy question to answer with specifics. First off the assertion that any creature that has spent time in captivity is unsuitable for re-introduction into the wild is just flat out false. At least not in every situation.

Look at the non native accidental introductions of species from fish tanks and reptile cages in Florida. 

Look at Dart Frog populations that have sprung up in Hawaii.

Look at wild parrot populations in the South Western United States.

All coming from captive stock. 

There are some species that would have difficulty being released in the wild, like those that became too dependent on humans for their care, and have bonded with humans. Cailfornia Condors for example have been very touchy with how captive raised specimens are cared for (using the equivalent of puppets to mimic feeding) and as little human contact as possible to avoid human depedancy.

some species of fishes require exacting situations, and many absolutely need to be in a very specific geological area or they don't survive. In many cases transplants to new locations just out right fail, other times they go too far in the opposite direction and become an invasive species. And sometimes the porridge is just right 


Overall, it's not a cut and dried answer.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

mtolypetsupply said:


> I've been wondering about this myself.
> 
> From the standpoint of a frog registry, I see great benefit.
> 
> ...


The recommendations behind animals that are suitable for reintroductions has been changing rapidly in the last few years (and very rapidly in the last one to two years). This is in part to the increasing knowledge behind emerging infectious diseases of exotic species in general and amphibians in particular. I believe that the information has been updated to reflect that information and the ASN book is being updated as well. The current site states that the reason for registering amphibians is quote "Registering animals is the most important part of being a steward. By registering animals, stewards create a collective ASN accession database that is used to track captive population trends and relatedness of animals in steward collections. These data are vital for helping stewards maintain the genetic integrity of their holdings, and to determine which captive populations need active management to maintain them."endquote. (fromhttp://www.treewalkers.org/ourprojects/1-conservation/3-asn?start=1) 

Any releases of animals into the wild would have to be via agreement with the appropriate controlling govermental body. So it would be based on their acceptance. 

As for whether they embrace TWI/ASN, we haven't been around long enough for them to make a decision. We are still in the baby steps stages where we have to prove we can maintain species long term. 


Now there is a possibility that at some point, animals that were properly maintained or identified could be used to repatriation but virtually all of the animals in the hobby do not fit that criteria. 
There is also a possibility that in the future, members of ASN could be identified to work in associations with institutions in breeding animals designated for repatriation but we have to prove that we can maintain, manage and record data.. until we do so, we will not have a lot of interest from institutions.
We simply have not been around long enough and still need more members to show that the hobby is serious. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Imperial_Aquatics said:


> That isn't an easy question to answer with specifics. First off the assertion that any creature that has spent time in captivity is unsuitable for re-introduction into the wild is just flat out false. At least not in every situation.
> 
> Look at the non native accidental introductions of species from fish tanks and reptile cages in Florida. .


Actually the recommendation is any amphibian/reptile that has been kept in captivity in a manner where it could have been in any form of contact with animal not native to its locality and this is based on emerging data on a number of diseases like mycoplasma, iridoviruses (which have also been shown capable of jumping from a exotic reptile (and there is no reason to doubt it can't occur from amphibians) host to a insect and remain infectious. Currently, unless the amphibian can be housed in basically a biosecure unit where it only has access to species from the same region, it should not be released. We should also be taking some basic precautions with captive species in collections as many waste water systems are not set up to prevent the spread of novel infectious agents and in someplaces like the East Coast during heavy storms, untreated waste water is dischaged into the waterways. 

There have been outbreaks of novel diseases that have been directly linked to released animals (for example Mycoplasma in native tortoises (in Florida and the rest of the USA), and box turtles)... 

The problem is that we may have failed to detect the novel pathogen in those initial releases (like the dart frogs in Hawaii) due to an insufficient interest and lack of ability. 

Some comments,

Ed


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

Ed's post about communicable diseases is the line of thinking that I had when questioning the idea of reintroduction. I wondered if it were the same with dart frogs.


Ed, your answers on each and every topic are why, at least in my mind, you are a FROG GOD.

 

Thank you for your always informative posts. Now I better understand the mission and practices of TWI/ASN.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Just seeing this...and just to reiterate what Ed already explained: much of what is on the website right now is original content from when TWI first got started and the original impetus behind the ASN. However, as he explained, things have changed since then and we are currently working to revamp/adjust the program and guidebook accordingly. We should have a brand new updated and completely overhauled website up and running within the next month or two that will reflect all of these changes.


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