# Cloudy eyes



## CubanTreeFrog (May 8, 2021)

Hi, 

My Cuban tree frog has cloudy eyes, as can be seen in the attached pictures. I believe that this may be an infection or eye cloud of some sort, but I do not know how it was caused or how to treat it. I have read that medications such as Melafix or turtle eye drops can be used to cure these types of diseases, however i am not certain that they are safe and effective. I would greatly appreciate any help to help me remedy this issue.


1. One Cuban Tree Frog, 3 and a half years, Wild collected.

2. The temperatures are 80-83 degrees during the day, 76-79 during the night. Temperatures vary by around 3 degrees on 

each side of the tank due to the heat gradient. Measured with a thermometer. One heat lamp that is 25 watts and a 

small heating pad on the bottom of one side of the enclosure. Both the lamp and the heating pad are on one side of the 

enclosure to form a heat gradient.

3. Small heat lamp that is 25 watts. Brand is Zoo med. Light helps create the heat gradient and establish a day-night 

cycle.

4. Humidity is usually 50-70 percent. Using dechlorinated water treated by Zoomed Reptisafe dechlorinator. Using hand 

mister for around 10-15 seconds, 3-4 or 4-5 times a day depending on the ambient humidity.


5. 10 gallon enclosure with a screen top. Glass enclosure with decor set up in a way to suit the needs of an arboreal 

animal. There is a water dish with clean water, big enough to where the frog can soak at night. The decor provides 

hiding places in both gradients of the enclosure.

6. This animal is fed crickets and super worms, with occasional feedings of meal worms and wax worms. They are 

gut loaded with commercial cricket feed with both minerals and calcium. The food is not dusted with calcium powder.

7. No other tank mates ever.

8. No odd behavior

9. No handling by hand or harmful materials near the enclosure.

10. Frog pictures are attached. The enclosure is spot cleaned every one- two weeks. Water dish is kept clean and full 

at all times. Substrate is changed every four cleanings. Decor is cleaned as well. 

Thank you!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

It would help to know how long the frog has had the cloudy eyes, and how it developed (gradually becoming more noticeable, or all at once; one eye at a time; etc).

I'd suspect something dietary. No supplements for years (cricket food isn't "gut load", contrary to a lot of misinformation out there), fairly fatty diet. A general web search for "corneal lipidosis" might be valuable to you.

Hopefully others will chime in with more things to consider.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The corneal lipidosis is a very reasonable possibility especially if he has a strong appetite and eats a great deal. 

It would be good to rule out other possibilties as far as knowing his habits. It looks like it could be a very dry situation only speaking from the photos shown and im curious where the frog rests during the day. Im wondering if he is sleeping next to the lamp on the glass in an effort to be within its warmth. And what kind of lamp it is.

Do not put melafix in his eye.

Bioaccumulation and metabolic problems do indeed cause cloudy eyes most commonly.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Until you get to an arav vet, perhaps giving him a wider water source in association with the warmer zone with cover over part of it, and a pad on the wall with temp control would be a perfect accompaniment to this. Ease of hydration and reduction of stress is extremely important to frogs with impaired vision.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The "Turtle Drops" are a weak saline base with vitamin A palmitate and useless for resolving eye issues in turtles. Other than perhaps softening caseated matter so they open their eye temporarily.

There is NO product available at any pet store that can cure your frogs eye problem no matter what the etiology is.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Socratic Monologue said:


> It would help to know how long the frog has had the cloudy eyes, and how it developed (gradually becoming more noticeable, or all at once; one eye at a time; etc).
> 
> I'd suspect something dietary. No supplements for years (cricket food isn't "gut load", contrary to a lot of misinformation out there), fairly fatty diet. A general web search for "corneal lipidosis" might be valuable to you.
> 
> Hopefully others will chime in with more things to consider.


Agree with this. Take a look at this Wright, Kevin. Cholesterol, corneal lipidosis, and xanthomatosis in amphibians . 

Scroll down, or click the side link, for the Prevention part.

You need to ensure you are supplementing properly. Repashy Calcium Plus is a good all around option, as is something like Denodrocare. Unfortunately, the outlook is probably not good and this seems to be very advanced. If the frog is unable to see, I would suggest euthanizing it.

For the sake of it staying here if the link is removed:



> *Prevention and treatment of cholesterol-related disorders*
> Diagnosis of cholesterol-related disorders relies principally on observation of corneal lesions and concomitant confirmation of elevated serum or plasma cholesterol. Adjunct diagnostics should include celioscopy or an exploratory celiotomy to evaluate the extent of lipidosis and xanthomatosis. A liver biopsy should be obtained as well as biopsies from any grossly visible lesions. The clinician must be aware that other granulomatous diseases, such as mycobacteriosis and chromomycosis, may appear grossly similar to xanthomatosis. A touch-prep of biopsy material should be evaluated by acid-fast stain and Gram stain to rule out these infectious etiologies. If disseminated xanthomatosis is detected or if hepatic lipidosis is confirmed, the amphibian is unlikely to survive more than 9–12 months in my experience.
> Surgical removal of one or both coelomic fat bodies may be warranted. Although extracellular cholesterol may be difficult to mobilize, these and other lipid depots may be metabolized if the main lipid storage organs are removed. An amphibian may have a reduced capability to deal with sudden increases in energy or lipid requirements after the coelomic fat bodies have been excised. These patients require care to maintain adequate nutritional intake and stable weights. Debulking of corneal xanthomas may provoke more inflammation and speed the infiltration of the perimeter tissue, but may be necessary when the infiltrates become very thick. Enucleation may be considered for severely infiltrated eyes as a pain-management procedure.
> Treatment of corneal lipidosis is unrewarding, as there is likely to be concurrent systemic xanthomas affecting organ function and concomitant hepatic lipidosis. Even if eye lesions are minimal, internal pathology may be severe, and the reverse may be true. However, affected amphibians may survive years with proper management. Careful weight control is necessary so that the amphibian does not continue to convert excess energy to lipids. This point should be reemphasized, as most captive amphibians are fed a far higher calorie load than they require. For example, a 50-g White's tree frog (_P. caerulea_) maintained at 25°C requires around 0.54 kcal/day for basic metabolism, a caloric intake of approximately six adult domestic crickets per week [
> ...


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## CubanTreeFrog (May 8, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> It would help to know how long the frog has had the cloudy eyes, and how it developed (gradually becoming more noticeable, or all at once; one eye at a time; etc).
> 
> I'd suspect something dietary. No supplements for years (cricket food isn't "gut load", contrary to a lot of misinformation out there), fairly fatty diet. A general web search for "corneal lipidosis" might be valuable to you.
> 
> Hopefully others will chime in with more things to consider.


Thank you for your reply! The frog has had this condition for approximately 6 months in one eye, and around 2 weeks in the other. What food would you recommend to gut load insects if the commercial cricket, such as Fulker's cricket diet, is not effective?


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## CubanTreeFrog (May 8, 2021)

Thank you all for your replies! I will continue to look into corneal lipidosis and research.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I don't gut load (it is a pain). Supplement powder used on all prey items is typically effective. Repashy Calcium Plus is a fine product for that purpose.

That said, gut loading is worth the trouble to some keepers. The only commercial product I'm familiar with is Repashy Superload. I have no doubt that it is a good product.

There is a bad tendency lately for people to use 'gut load' to mean simply feeding nutritious food to the prey. That latter thing should be done no matter what (though commercial cricket diet probably ain't it), but it isn't gut loading. Gut loading is filling the insect with something too concentrated for them to survive on for long -- basically, supplement dust on the inside.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Yes, I will second what @Socratic Monologue is saying above. Gut loading is good, and important. It generally helps the food source to be more nutritious. However, dusting with supplements is mandatory for every feeding whether or not you gut load.

I would reiterate again that you may want to consider euthanizing the animal, as living a life being blind as an animal that is quite visually dependent is probably causing undo stress and pain. This, of course, is my opinion only and your decision to make.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Its not very common for frogs to accumulate corneal deposits when they dont regularly recieve mammalian prey. But surely possible. The one eye especially isnt just foggy but really 'caked' which is signature of these.

Gut loading will always be an active topic. A kind human dietary anthropomorphism is reflected in what constitutes "healthy fare" but carrots and apples, an orange slice etc are great lunch box snacks but mostly passed cellulose for carnivorous herps. So Seconding what was said about gutload being best a concentrate value food. I like composites, moistened, with full profiles. They keep the bugs attention better too.

A blind frog is a frightened frog. Im really sorry this happened.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

If your going to use a dry food for crickets which is kinda manditory for management, they will go for any of the herp designed pellets just fine, you may have to give them a crush. Or wet them if you dont mind the replacement work.


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## Amphibicast (Jan 15, 2021)

I may be a bit late here but corneal lipidosis was my first impression based on the photos. (Although a veterinarian should always be consulted before assuming a diagnosis). Cuban tree frogs are prime candidates for the condition in addition to whites tree frogs. Crickets gutloaded with dog food or similar products that are high in cholesterol may contribute. The prognosis is generally poor in advanced cases and a consultation with a veterinarian about palliative care is advised.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Thank you for reminding us that we are here to perhaps help with corrective husbandry, further harm control, not making diagnosis!


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