# Cittranela sleeping?



## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Hey guys, 
Resently I've gotten an adult pair of d tinctorious citronella. Both have been sleeping in their water bowl most of the day so I was wondering if that's normal. If you want Me to post a picture of them I will. 
Thanks 
Buddy


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yes, please post a pic.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

No, that's not normal. IME, tincs will spend a small amount of time here and there enjoying small ponds, etc...but they do not spend the majority of their time in the water and they never sleep in the water. So, something is wrong. Darts will spend time in the water if they are sick or if the tank is too dry...check your humidity first. That would be the easiest to resolve.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Are these wild caught frogs, and if so did you do any type of quarantine on them? 
Please post pictures of the frogs and the tank if you can.
Bryan


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

These guys are not wild caught and the humidity is at 90%. Here is a pic of one sleeping by the pond. After I took the pic I sprayed the tank and he didn't move but I touched him to see if he was alive and he jumped.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

It looks like he's sitting on a ledge part of the water dish. Maybe it's cooler there? What are the temps?

Can you get a full shot of the tank? Maybe there is not enough cover and he's sitting there for the safety of the overhanging plant.


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## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

It looks like he's trying to hide under the cover of the plant to me.


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

Leaf litter and a coconut hide may give him alternate places to hang... hard to say without a full tank shot.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

there is a cocohut in the background.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

That's an 18x18x18 exo terra


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Does he have Leucs in there with him? Could they be stressing him out?


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

If you have an adult Pair( 1.1.) of Citronella there is a good chance that they started breeding/courting, only time I see my tincs in the water for long periods of time are when they are soaking up before and after they lay/fertilize 

The full tank shot does look like a leuc from a far, it may just be the picture though


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

RedEyeTroyFrog said:


> If you have an adult Pair( 1.1.) of Citronella there is a good chance that they started breeding/courting, only time I see my tincs in the water for long periods of time are when they are soaking up before and after they lay/fertilize
> 
> The full tank shot does look like a leuc from a far, it may just be the picture though


Ooh that's right. I skipped right over the part about it being a pair. Maybe take a peek in cocohut for eggs 

And, if you do have Leucs in with them, you should probably put them into their own tank.


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

The frog in the top right is a luec. That is probably why the citronella is hanging out in the corner. They both look like great frogs but I would recommend seperating them. You could end up losing one of them faster then you realize. Your viv looks great I would build another and seperate them.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Oh I didn't even see that J!! Looks like there are 2 leucs n there.... Separate ASAP your city's still maybe be breeding


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## frogmanroth (May 23, 2006)

Buddysfrogs said:


> Hey guys,
> Resently I've gotten an adult pair of d tinctorious citronella. Both have been sleeping in their water bowl most of the day so I was wondering if that's normal. If you want Me to post a picture of them I will.
> Thanks
> Buddy


If its just one day they could be just soaking also. What's the weather like there? Mine soak in water dishes all the time.
Didn't see the other post of breeding. But my guess also.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

i agree with all these people posting about removing the leucs. you can't fit 4 large frogs in an 18 cube, much less 2 different species.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/81404-my-frog-room.html

There seems to be some more mixing....

ANYWHO you need to make sure that all your frogs are getting enough space to be happy. Overcrowding leads to stress which can lead to the death of a frog.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

There are no leucs in the tank it was an old picture of the tank i did have l'eucs in.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Buddysfrogs said:


> There are no leucs in the tank it was an old picture of the tank i did have l'eucs in.


Well then, did you find any eggs?


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

I did not find any eggs but the male was in the pool staring right at me. Lol


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Sometimes my tincs will soak on and off, for a few days, before they get around to actually laying eggs. I think they just like hanging out in the hot tub 

On a serious note, your frog 'looks' healthy in the pic and your tank looks great, imo. I'd just keep an eye on them for now.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Thank you frogface but something I just noticed is the frog in the pic has brown on his nose and it looks like it is dirty but it's also indented. Kind of its hard to explain but my female is in the back right now so I can't tell if she has it to.. Here's a pic of Him. Is that ok?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm sorry. I can't see it in that picture. Do you have access to an exotic vet?


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Here is a better pic.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If that's not a piece of moss or frog poo stuck to his nose, I think he should see a vet.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

It might be poo but im not sure. I'll check on him later to see if it's gone. 
Thankd


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Maybe that's why he's always sleeping in plain sight.


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

Your citronella has skin lesions of some kind. Could be an infection. I would send the picture to Dr. Frye or get it to a vet very soon. It doesn't look good at all.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

How can I contact Dr. Frye? 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

Well I read some posts it looks like he has been banned from dendroboard. I don't know the reasons. This is some contact info I believe [email protected]


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

-Jex- said:


> Well I read some posts it looks like he has been banned from dendroboard. I don't know the reasons. This is some contact info I believe [email protected]


That's his brothers e-mail. I'm not sure what Dr. Fryes is.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

-Jex- said:


> Well I read some posts it looks like he has been banned from dendroboard. I don't know the reasons. This is some contact info I believe [email protected]


That's his brother

David M. Frye, DVM

Milan Area Animal Hospital

517 West Main St

Milan, MI 48160

734-439-2273


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## -Jex- (Mar 29, 2008)

haha oops! I knew that didn't sound right. Thanks for correcting me.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Buddy, I responded to your other thread too...that frog needs to see a vet asap. I would recommend an "in person" visit if at all possible, and email only with no other choice. Here is the link again to ARAV vets so that you can find one near you...https://timssnet2.allenpress.com/EC...NT_MDSearch.cfm?CFID=1229710&CFTOKEN=77956605


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Just an update, I I saw it on the Cobalts I bought from the same guy. My one male cittranela did not make it. I've decided to put all 4 frogs out of their misery and am going to euthenize them later tonight any suggestions?


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

It is a bit hard to follow, you have an number of threads going but..

Orajel is the recommended humane way of euthanasia for dart frogs.

Did you ask your vet friend if they all should be put down? If the one in the worst condition died, but you are treating the others with the cream for fungal infections as you had said in another thread, they may still recover.

I would also recommend you hold off selling frogs in your collection until you have the issue resolved, or at least inform a buyer of the potential health issue.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Yes I know they might make it but I would rather put them out of there misery now instead of have them live there shortned life with half their half gone and force feeding them. And my other frogs look and are acting fine. Intact they are eating like crazy. 
Buddy


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

Buddysfrogs said:


> Yes I know they might make it but I would rather put them out of there misery now instead of have them live there shortned life with half their half gone and force feeding them. And my other frogs look and are acting fine. Intact they are eating like crazy.
> Buddy


This does not mean they are fine. If they were in contact with the other frogs then they are most likely infected as well. Do the responsible thing and quarantine them and treat them for whatever parasite, bacteria, infection they might have based on what an experienced vet said about your Citronella.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

They have not been in the same Viv as the citronella have. They left then the citronella went in and I used a 75% hydrogen peroxide solution on all my frogs just in case.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

Peroxide? Really? The leuc is in the pic with the citronella in the water dish...they were at one point in time in the same viv. (not an expert) I would think all your frogs would need to be treated. You don't know what it is that is infecting them? Don't know how it spreads? Shouldn't you be safe? Don't you want to protect your fellow froggers from the spread of this?


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Erik, what pictures he has given us I don't think there are citronella and leucs spotted in the same pics, to my understanding he posted a picture of the cits first, then some1 asked for a full tank shot, thats where the leucs are pictured but the citronella are not. Buddy said that that picture was taken prior to the citronellas going in, and the leucs were removed before. 

Buddy,
That being said, I still agree that all your frogs should be looked at and treated. I don't see any of the members here purchasing any from you after seeing the pics of citronella. In that case it would just be irresponsible to sell to someone that has no prior knowledge of the citronella, and then potentially spreading disease throughout the hobby. Also Im having a hard time following your posts as well. So the cobalts are having the same issue as the citronella?? and your euthanizing them too?? You need to have something looked at ASAP to find out what went wrong. Post some decent pictures of these frogs. 

Also What kind of camera are you using?? It would help alot if the photos weren't so blurry and smokey...a nice clear picture of what that brown stuff actually was would help greatly. Is it possible that these frogs were impacted,and the brown stuff was just dirt? Or was that already discussed and I missed it?

Erik if this is the pictures I believe both of these are Leucs...


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

RedEyeTroyFrog said:


> Is it possible that these frogs were impacted,and the brown stuff was just dirt?


Troy...it was not dirt. The frog was missing a good chunk out of it's face. Here is a link to the page with the pics (post #4 & #8)...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...ent/81661-cittranela-sleeping.html#post723032


I must say that I find this situation truly sad. To obtain a bunch of frogs within only a couple of weeks and then to care so little for their lives as if they are disposable playthings...(sigh ).

Honestly, Buddy...unless you were extremely careful and ensured that nothing came in contact between vivs (including unsanitized hands), there is a very good chance that this may have spread to all of your frogs/vivs. I would think that it would be worth it to take the time to treat every frog rather than risk them all.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Yes I was extremely careful and I always wash my hands. It's like an ocd of mine. Also when I first noticed it I immediately separated them out. If I ever touched them immediately after I would wash my hand. Also tony I put a flash light to the "brown" part and I could actually see the nostrils. I am not going to sell my frogs right now so I can watch them and treat if necessary. But they are all doing fine and the only infected ones were my cittranela and cobalt? I bought both from the same guy in NH show. I have a machine at my house called a Lotus and it takes ordinary water and makes it like a cleaning agent. It's kills bacteria 10x better than bleach. I have been using this to spray down my tanks once every two days since I found the infection. 
Thanks, 
Buddy


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Also with the picture I moved the citronella into the leucs old tank so yes they are leucs. I made sure nothing came in contact with the cittranela.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Buddysfrogs said:


> I have a machine at my house called a Lotus and it takes ordinary water and makes it like a cleaning agent. It's kills bacteria 10x better than bleach. I have been using this to spray down my tanks once every two days since I found the infection.


Don't believe everything a manufacturer claims...


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

I've always sterilize my fruit with it. The 10x better than bleach probably isn't true but it does work.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Buddy, I don't think anyone has mentioned yet, but, the tanks that these sick frog are in need to be gutted and the tank sterilized with bleach. 

The insides from the tank (plants, dirt, background, drainage, etc) should be double bagged before disposal. The water in their tank should be treated as well, before dumped down the drain. I syphon mine into a gallon jug and add bleach. 

So sorry this has happened


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Tying threads together: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...tment/81886-suggestions-euthenizing-them.html http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/81661-cittranela-sleeping.html


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

WendySHall said:


> Troy...it was not dirt. The frog was missing a good chunk out of it's face. Here is a link to the page with the pics (post #4 & #8)...
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...ent/81661-cittranela-sleeping.html#post723032
> 
> 
> ...


I saw the pictures but I can't really make anything out, the picture quality is terrible...maybe I'm getting old and my eyes are going lol


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

and buddy please stop spelling Citronella as cittranela. . .


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Sorry autocorrect on my phone is doing it.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

ahaha I understand. . .


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Just a long awaited update ob this. All four frogs did pass away fron the illness. I tried to contact them but i could not get a hold of them. As the next New Hampshire show arrived i went up to them and they tried to make good and promised me TWO REPLACEMENT PAIRS for the Hudson Valley show which was today. I built tanks for the frogs he promised me. 2 24x18x18 Exos. Not cheap. As i approached their table they saod they could only give me baby azureus for $25 a peice. These baby azureus looked maybe two to three weeks out of the water. I declined and finally got them to give me a $75 credit and their phone number. I spent almost $300 at their booth. So bot only did they selll me sick frogs they also stuck me for the emplacement and i had built vivs in their honor. Im not going to say who they were but you can PM me. It turned out Tim Heath had some nice juvie alanis so i got a few of them. 
Just thought you guys would like to know.
Buddy


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Did any of these frogs ever see a vet? Or get any kind of fecal done?


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

I brought 2 of the 4 to the white plains show. He gave me some sylvadene creme which did not help
Buddy

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