# Tad/embryo prematurely broken out of egg sac



## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Has anyone ever had this happen? One of the three imitator embryos (I guess they are still embryos at this point) seems to have broken it's egg sac/membrane prematurely. I would assume that it will not make it since they are only on approximately day 11. Has anyone had this happen and have it make it to tad-hood??? If it dies, do I need to somehow get it away from the other two?

Here is a link to a picture...see how the tail on the one on the upper left is not curved inside the egg sac. I still don't know how to post pictures even when I put them in the gallery. 

http://photobucket.com/albums/v728/trin ... sday10.jpg

Thanks!
Kristen


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

I forgot to add that it is still in the goo, just not in the sac any longer. When it wiggles, I can kind of see part of it come up out of the goo. What is the proper term for that stuff anyway? LOL! 

Kristen


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## wolcottaj (Aug 1, 2004)

Link doesnt work!


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## TimsViv (Feb 16, 2004)

Kristen,

You need a pass word to view your pictures. But if you click on the third window under the picture, you can copy it and paste it right in you post and the picture will show up in the thread.

Tim


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2005)

*e*

I had that happen to a leuc egg after 12 days and it died a day or two later. I have no idea what caused it. I didnt jar it or anything, it just came out early and then died. I felt like crap and felt like I caused it somehow, but its clutchmate is surviving to this day, so I dont think it was me. I think that happens sometimes for some reason or another, but I have no clue.


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Sorry about the link...I'll try this. I clicked on the third box, copied and pasted...fingers crossed. If it doesn't work, I think it's in my gallery so I"ll post the link.


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## Ed Martin (Mar 25, 2004)

I have had it happen serveral times and the outcome is never the same. Right now I have had an imitator that hatched anout 5 days before it's clutchmates that is the same size as it was 3 weeks ago when the others hatched. The tad is still alive but it is not thriving. On the other hand I've had leuc tads that hatched early and morphed fine. 
Normally when they hatch early I'll gently spray the eggs to wash the tad into a rearing container, if you decide to do that be careful. If it does die try to pull the tad away from the other eggs..... 
Ed


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## ETwomey (Jul 22, 2004)

This often happens with my azureus tadpoles. They seem to develop fine so long as I keep the water impeccably clean for about a week. Using tadpole tea really helps prevent fungus at this extra-vulnerable stage. I have found that high dietary calcium in the adults seems to remedy this problem.

Evan


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## bradadams (Jun 3, 2004)

Like some of the others have said. This sometimes happens and with different results. The earlier it happens the more likely the tad will fail. If you do notice it happening, its best to remove the tad from the membraine completely and transfer to a clean shallow water source.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

*early hatch*

Good advice Brad, it has been my experience that young tads (1-14 days old) are far more sensitive to water quality than older tads. I still use a variety of crushed flake fish food as my tadpole food and for the first 2 weeks I only leave the food in their container for about 1 hour. I increase this time to 3.5 hours approximately for older tads and most seem to thrive.
mark


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Thanks everyone for the input. I appreciate it...and I have a few questions. First of all, what is the best way to remove the tad without disturbing the other two that are still in their sacs? The more I see them wriggle and thrash about, the more I worry that they, too, will break out of their sacs.

Secondly, if I manage to get it away from the other two successfully, are we talking petrie dish or something that shallow? Also, is blackwater extract something that would help in this situation? I presume bottled (not distilled) water, right?

Lastly, how long until it should start eating? I assume not for awhile...not until after it would have normally broken away from it's sac?

Thanks!!!

Kristen


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Well, when I checked on them today, the one that had broken out of the egg sac was still alive and wiggling around. Then I noticed that another one had broken out. This is approx. day 12, give or take, and the third one is still in it's sac, but I don't see it wiggle. Is no movement a good clue that it's dead too even though it's still in the sac?

I tried moving the two into shallow dishes...both move a little, but not much. The second one to break out stayed upright when in the container, but the other is dying. It goes more sideways. The one that stayed upright is not moving much though...I'm pretty certain that both will probably die.

Is there anything that I can do to prevent this in the future? Did I mist them too much? What can I do differently? The good news is that there are three more imitator eggs that I discovered today in the film canister.

Thanks!

Kristen


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## Ed Martin (Mar 25, 2004)

Kristen, do not write them off. Sometimes tads will lie on it's side in water and recover after a day or so. Keep them in really shallow water, like 1/2 a petri dish. 

No movement does not mean the other is dead either... unless you are watching it for hours, just give it some time. If you get to more than 20 days or if it molds then you can consider it dead. Actually I have found that if the tads stay in the egg longer, they seem to develop better. 

If the others last another day, feed them a tiny bit, and remember that the little bit of water will foul quickly.

Good Luck!
Ed


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Thanks Ed...do we really think that if they are not active and swimming around that they'll be ok enough to eat? Just asking...because the one that is not on it's side just sits there, and I would imagine that even if I put food in there that it would not eat. Maybe I'm wrong...

What is the best way to do water changes on tads this small? I'm definitely not expecting these to live, but of course I'm going to try my hardest.

Thanks
Kristen


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2005)

Don't feed the tads for a few days (at least thats what I've been told) I think they're still absorbing their yolk sac for a couple days after hatching. If you're not feeding them you shouldn't really need to do a water change. 


-Tad


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## Ed Martin (Mar 25, 2004)

Kristen, they might be OK. Just give them a day or 2, if they make it until tomorrow at noon or so (that is about 24 hrs after you posted) then give them a really tiny bit of food. They should be OK without even longer than that. Are these your first tads? If they make it for a few days move them to another container or put more water in the container you have them in, just like you would any other tad. And keep them seperate. Like I said, do not write them off unless you are sure they are dead.... they might suprise you.
You also might consider leaving that other clutch with the parents, it is really cool to watch they rear the tads. 
Ed


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Thanks Ed! Yes, these are my first dart tads...and I've got three more eggs behind these, so I need to get things figured out.  

They are still moving a bit, but only when stimulated one way or another. The one is still in it's egg sac, but very still and doesn't move that I see.

What temp is best for the water...room temperature??

Thanks
Kristen


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## Ed Martin (Mar 25, 2004)

Kristen, Mid to low 70's is fine. First tads are great. Stop messing with them, I understand that it is tough but... just let them be for a while. They are a bit weak right now, especially since they hatched early and stress can really be detrimental(sp). Are you going to use a tadpole tea? If you are and have not made any yet, get started. I use blackwater extract and oak leaves. I have not tried almond leaves but understand that they work great. Newly hatched tads do not move a lot, especially if they hatch early, so they could be fine. As time goes by. if they are alright you will see more and more movement, but leave them alone over night. 
Good luck, Keep us posted. 
Ed


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Yes, I called last week to get blackwater extract, but they had to order it. I should be able to pick some up tomorrow...hopefully. If I can get my hands on some, what is the best way to add it without shocking/stressing them? 

Honestly, I haven't been sitting there poking at them like it sounds in my prior post...hahaha. I have only checked on them once since putting them in the containers and that was because the one was on it's side and I thought it was dead. 

Ed, you've been a tremendous help and I want you to know I greatly appreciate it! Thank you.

The temps you mention sound like what I'm doing.

If this happens with the next clutch, I'll have to make some serious changes.

Thanks again!

Kristen


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