# Build Log: Custom 20 Gal Vertical Paludarium



## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I thought I would create a thread dedicated to the progress of a vivarium/paludarium I am working on for a group of R. Imitators I'll be receiving late November from Understory Enterprises. 

I'll update this thread as the build progresses. This first post will cover what has been completed to-date. Almost everything is going to be DIY on this project.

Ultimately, the vivarium will be climate controlled via an Arduino slaved to a RaspberryPi (for remote access, monitoring, and control). Lighting will also be custom LED, but we'll get to that later. 

Electronics are sure to follow, but let's start with the aquarium itself:

1/4" plate glass cut with sanded edges:









Glass assembled and joined with clear GE II aquarium safe silicone:









Let silicone cure for several days and water tested:









Looks good, neighbor's bunny decided to inspect the seems:









Shelf cut from a piece of 8 layer hardwood ply. Brackets are drilled into the wall studs.
Testing strength of the shelf with roughly ~100lbs (~44.5 Kg):









Tank positioned with a piece of driftwood I found and treated that I think I'll be using as the center piece. 









Next up will be the creation of the false bottom and the carving of the background. Am still unsure whether or not I want a waterfall. I figured a waterfall would serve a number of purposes, one being a way to filter the water (especially if I choose to have fish).


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Looks great. I like the shelf idea and good job on the custom build. I want to build a seem less tank one day.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I know I haven't updated this thread, but it's not because I haven't been working on the project. Things have stagnated a little because the wood that I had planned my design around may be a soft wood like Cedar, which would be unacceptable. However, I have some confidence now that the wood is safe (yet I am still working on confirming the source). 

In the meantime I've begin a plant collection:


Selaginella kraussiana 'Pin-Cushion Spikemoss'
Neoregelia 'Annick'
Neoregelia 'Fireball'
Neoregelia dungsiana
Zebrina pendula 'Wandering Jew White Fuzzy'
Polystichum tsus-simense 'Korean Rock Fern'
Begonia 'Little Darling'
Java Moss

Tilandsias:

Victoriana
Tenufolia Emerald
Filfolia
Araujei Hybrid
Fraseri

We had some thunderstorms sweep through recently so I spent some time today collecting leaves from downed branches. I then cleaned them and boiled them for 10 minutes. They're laying out to dry now. I'll have to wait a little while for them to lose their color before I use them. 

I believe what I have is Scarlet Oak and Sugar Maple.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

It appears I'm having trouble with a couple of the images.

Freshly collected:









Drying Scarlet Oaks leafs:


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Looking good so far. Can you give some more details on the climate control system? And what's raspberrypi?


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## fishman9809 (Dec 8, 2008)

I can help you out on one part: 

The RaspberryPi is a small, low-cost microcomputer the size of a credit card. Runs about $25 or $35 depending on the model. Has a wide-range of uses, climate control being one of the potential uses.


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## Charlie Q (Jul 13, 2013)

I am also curious about the "climate control". are you talking about climate sensors or an actual system of regulating the temperature. if you plan to control the temperature, than how exactly is the the heat added or removed?


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

You know, I haven't worked out all the details yet, and removing heat from the system will be the most challenging aspect in the summer months. In the winter months, it can be regulated pretty well with fans.

My thoughts were to use an Arduino for sensor reading and control of relays, transistors (both for on/off switching and for PWM in the case of fans and lights), and the Raspberry Pi for higher level operations like remote access/monitoring and special functions (thunderstorms). If you're wondering what I mean by thunderstorms, I was really inspired by this project:





Sensors:
- 2 x DHT22 for temperature and humidity (in tank and in room)
- *Photoresistors for light measurements

Controllables:
- LED lighting (3W LEDs, no more than 50, will likely be split into strings and groups for more precise control of the lighting. Will run at less than 1.5W)
- Vent Fans (PWM enabled CPU fans) 
- Humidifier (ultrasonic type sold at stores like walgreens -- piped in) (relay)
- Feeding system (servo, only for vacations, similar to: 



- Waterfall pump
- *Misters
- *Cooling (thermoelectric or the like)

* planned in the future

Basically, heat will be added by increasing the power output of the lighting system, and decreasing the vent fan RPM. Heat will be removed with the use of fans and, potentially, circulating water out of the system and into an external heat exchanger. Again, this is an aspect I haven't figured out quite yet. Humidity, will be controlled primarily with vent fans, and secondarily with the humidifier. If, say there's a cooling situation in which the vent fans are maxed out, then the humidifer will be engaged rather than decreasing the fan rpm. 

Again, the system will require testing and I'm only testing basic RaspPi/Arduino communication schemes right now.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I got some toys recently that will be part of the climate control system:

Wonderful DHT22 sensor units:









LCD Display that will provide basic information and low-level control over the system. I plan to drive the LCD with a single pin (plus power of course) using shift registers. This, in conjunction with a simple button-input scheme, will free up the RaspberryPi for other projects when high-level features are not needed.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

And so it begins:









Meanwhile, running an experiment with Java Moss. Comparing growth rates using tap water as compared to carbonated water (both room temperature).


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

More broms on the way! I'll add a species list when they arrive. 

I've also ordered my first flightless fruitfly culture to get some cultures started as I have frogs arriving (tentatively) in 3 weeks. I also got spring tails to seed the tank. 

On the electronics front:

3W LEDs arrived today.

50 Cool Whites
50 Reds
10 Royal Blues (for moon lighting mostly)

Please ignore the red through-hole LEDs









I suspect i'll need optics for these LEDs as they have a 120 degree field of view. I'm open to suggestions here. 

On the software front:


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Cool, I'd love to know how everything is wired/programmed to work


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

You can be sure that I will provide all the source code and schematics when it's finished. Right now we're literally on an Alpha version and the code is evolving every day.

New plants arrived today! I really like the Fraseri as it reminds me of a small bromeliad. 

Here's the list again:

Victoriana
Tenufolia Emerald
Filfolia
Araujei Hybrid
Fraseri


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Nice plants. Here's another I think you'll like:

Ionantha Fuego


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## AGENT69 (Jul 30, 2013)

This Paludarium is gonna be awesome!!! Can't wait to see its progress


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## JohnVI (May 1, 2013)

SpaceMan said:


> I thought I would create a thread dedicated to the progress of a vivarium/paludarium I am working on for a group of R. Imitators I'll be receiving late November from Understory Enterprises.
> 
> I'll update this thread as the build progresses. This first post will cover what has been completed to-date. Almost everything is going to be DIY on this project.
> 
> ...


Re- pi system. That's exactly what im researching now. I have mics inside the tank, iridescent fish, led black light strip, t5's, and uvb bulbs I plan to control with the pi using control relays I link to corresponding amp draw @110v.

Good stuff..
Wanted to share. .

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh, now that I'm seeing the glass pics again, are you making a door for easy access into the viv, or is the only way in through the top?


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I wanted to keep the clean look and not have any doors, especially since it was designed to be mounted in the corner. So yes, it will be a giant pain in the ass to maintain, but it will be do-able.

To mitigate some of the hardship, I'm going to plant and set everything up with the tank on the ground, then move it to the corner and add the water. I'm using polystyrene foam for the background and will have a false bottom, so the dry weight should be small as compared to the weight of the glass. 

I have a question regarding the Paludarium aspect of the project. I really liked this guy's setup before the glass cracked and he converted it into a vivarium: 









There will be a pump in the back corner feeding 24" up to the top to a water fall feature of sorts. 

Should I be worried about a group of R. Amazonicas getting trapped under the false bottom?

Also, taking aquatic plant recommendations!


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I ordered some aquatic plants today, so those should be arriving this week.

I've hit a bit of a wall in designing the layout of the vivarium. I've got the wood centerpiece positioned, and the egg-crate for the bottom layer of my false bottom about 5" from the bottom. From here on though, I'm hesitant to commit to anything. I also need a way to keep the substrate from overflowing into the water. 

Finally tested the LEDs. They work and are super bright, but, as expected, have a very wide field of view. I've ordered a handful of reflectors to get some light to penetrate. 

Red @ 274mA (700mA Max)









Blue @ 90mA (700mA Max)









Cool White @ 100mA (700mA Max)


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Looking good. Oh how I wish I weren't so technologically illiterate


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## T2theG (Jul 6, 2013)

Your build looks great! Keep the updates coming.

Are you able to explain how you are going to setup the moonlight LED's?

I was looking at adding some moonlighting to my viv.

Kind Regards,


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks!

I'll be mounting 50 Cool White LEDs and 50 Royal Blue LEDs (previously I had said I had 50 reds, that was incorrect). 

I'll be running them at roughly 300mA, so my total power draw should be 150W or less. 

Moonlighting:

I haven't worked out the details, but I'll share my plan. The idea is really quite simple. Because of the way the LEDs are wired, I will have to turn on at least 3 of the blues for moon lighting. However, I can use pulse-width modulation (PWM) from the Arduino (or so I hope) to control the power output. The moon lighting will be controlled by either a simple monthly cycle or from the Raspberry Pi pulling the current moon-phase from the interwebs. Thus, a full moon would be full power to those 3 LEDs (or less), a half moon would be roughly half, and a new moon would be powered off. 

Right now I'm trying to figure out how best to arrange the LEDs. I'm stealing the patterning from this product:
Amazon.com: TaoTronics® 120w Dimmable Led Aquarium Lights Aquarium Hoods Led Reef Light for Coral Fish Seaweed TT-AL09(3w/Led, Blue/White Ratio- 28:27; Two-Year Warranty): Pet Supplies

And a small 5x5 section looks like this:









I need to acquire some heat sinks now, and quickly start wiring things up. Frogs are planned to arrive in just 3 weeks!!

I'll share the circuit diagram later this week.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

What frogs are you getting?

Also, I'd personally (not knowing better about the issue) be worried that the color balance of the viv would be thrown off with all those blues/reds. Are you worried about this?


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

The frogs are a 2.2 group of R. Amazonicas. Don't worry, they won't ship until everything is ready. 

I am also a little worried about the color balance. Frankly, I won't really know until I start firing them up. The good news is that the color balance can be adjusted by selectively turning off some colors. I added the reds just to make the light a little warmer, if desired.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Without knowing better I'd assume that the color would look a bit pink/purplish with the reds and blues. I know that the color temp that you want to aim for best visualization of the colors of the frogs is 6500K -- cool white I think


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Well the good news is that I can always only turn on the 50 cool whites I have and only use the blues occasionally for moon lighting. 

Perhaps I will buy some more whites or cool whites, or even back the system up with a CFL or T5.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Someone paid attention in school ;-)


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## SimpleLEDLightingSystems (Jun 15, 2013)

TheCoop said:


> Someone paid attention in school ;-)


Haha! That's exactly what I was thinking... Man I wish I would have payed more attention in class, all I ever wanted to do was build and never payed much attention to the programing aspect of electronics. 

This is awesome, very interesting to see how other people are using Arduino. I have a very similar project going on, been in hiatus but seeing this thread is starting to pump me up to finish it. Would be really interested in the source code too! Thanks for posting all of this, looking forward to seeing the end results,

-Mike-


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

* Question about the full brom shown below: * How do I separate the pups? It appears as though there's an elaborate entangled root network, and I don't want to damage the plant(s). 

My background is in Chemical Engineering, but I've always had an interest in circuits and automating things. Hence, here we are. I'm learning new things every day, and am far, far from an expert. 

Special deliveries today! 

Broms that arrived:


1 x Neo. "Wild Tiger" - Full
2 x Neo. "Fireball" - Pup
1 x Neo "Super Fireball" - Pup
1 x Neo. "Donger" - Pup
1 x Neo. "Fireball" - Pup










I now have WAY too many broms, and will likely be turning some of these into back-ups. 

On a side note, hese were ordered from Blue Pumilio here on the forums, and the store can be found here: Blue Pumilio. I highly recommend him (?), as he was very accommodating, and has superb "customer service". 

DigiKey order arrived as well:

 14' 4p4c cable (for temp/humidity sensors)
 female 4p4c jacks
 10 x 74HC595 serial in parallel/serial out shift registers (LED control, etc)
 10 x N-channel FETs (LED switching)










I also ordered some heat sinks on eBay the other night, so the lighting should be coming together this weekend. I'll need to get a hold of some power resitors, 3-5 watt ratings. They will only be dissipating about 0.5-1 watt though. I'm trying to find a good local source for electronics parts though, as DigiKey is a bit slow, and shipping is expensive.


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## SimpleLEDLightingSystems (Jun 15, 2013)

I cut all the roots off of all my new broms, won't hurt them at all, actually helps the broms adapt to there new environment.

-Mike-


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks Mike, I'll take care of those pups tomorrow.

Today I played with using the 74HC595s with the Arduino. I think they'll work just fine in a daisy chained configuration.

I also started looking at color combinations. The result with 3 whites, 4 reds, and 3 blues, all at roughly 400 mA, was a pink-purple, as predicted. 

Again though, I only have 10 reds, and I have 50 cool whites. The 10 reds can be turned off as well. I just thought I'd have them to warm things up a little (color temperature) if desired. 

Also, these things are BRIGHT. At 400 mA, they power output is only 1.5W per LED, half their max. Yet even now, these things hurt my eyes and put out a ton of light. 

Should I be worried about my frogs under such a bright light? If they hurt my eyes, how will it not hurt theirs? 

Oh, and for Patriot Day:


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## Giga (Mar 31, 2011)

I love the shelf!


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks! I really wanted a minimalistic look, with a floating shelf, but I decided a floating shelf would have been too weak to safely support all that weight.

*Question for you guys*: As it currently stands, there will be about 5 gallons of water at the bottom of the tank to serve as the water feature and for fish someday. I was wondering if I should use an external canister filter (DIY) to keep the water clean, or just rely on weekly partial water changes, plants, and the substrate to keep the water clean? 

Either way I'm going to have acrylic tubing running down the back corner These, along with all cables, will be hidden from view though with a cable raceway going down the corner of my wall.


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## ralph (Sep 13, 2006)

A canister filter will keep the water (in that small volume) fresh very effectively through biological filtration. It will take a while though for the bacteria to build up in the filter. There may be small ammonia stress in the first month while the Nitrogen cycle gets going. But it should be minimal because there is only a small bio-load on the water (only frog poo washed down, decaying organic matter, drowning fruit flies etc - nothing much compared to an aquarium stocked with shitting fish). But as no live animals in you water area, so it's a non-issue anyway! Besides, while the cycle establishes itself, the simple circulation and agitation of water will help keep it from stagnating.

After a month or two you could add Amano shrimp (hardy and great cleaners) to keep the detritus and algae down...

Another thought: Why not use a single chrome or clear acrylic rod (or even painted wood) as a "prop" at the front centre of the shelf, to take the weight? It will look minimal still...Just a thought.

I toyed with your shelf approach. But in the end opted for a pedestal cabinet built to the same profile as my opti-white tank. (similar to yours actually). See pic attached. Excuse the quick phone snap quality.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Good info on the water biology! I won't add any fish until the tank establishes itself and the canister filter gets going. Which, by the way, I now have parts for. Time is a whole different matter though, but I will try to get the canister filter built this weekend. 

In other news, lots of goodies arrived today!


A handful of aquatic plants, which I'll get to in a post tomorrow
A box full of wonderful, wonderful heat sinks
LED reflectors

With heat sinks in hand, I went ahead with my first lighting module. 

Here are the heat sinks I got for a great price on eBay:









The heat sinks I decided to use are these, the fans to the right will be used for forced convection. The bonus here is that waste heat can be diverted to the vivarium when needed. 









I originally was thinking something along the lines of this:









Anyway, as a prototype, I used thermal adhesive and soldered up 24 Cool Whites and 12 Royal Blues. Reds will be added tomorrow. Hopefully I can get my hands on some more power resistors tomorrow and power this puppy up. I'm super excited to see it's color temperature and light output.









And maybe I'll find that I need these reflectors:


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

Check out this thread when you get time. It's about mixing LED colors to get more full spectrum lighting. If you mix the right colors, the overall effect is white even though it's a mix of LEDs. If you want to use red, you should cluster them with violet and aqua. That will even out and look like white. I know this is a big read, but there's tons of great info in there. 

Full Spectrum LED tank pictures - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Dragonfish said:


> Check out this thread when you get time. It's about mixing LED colors to get more full spectrum lighting. If you mix the right colors, the overall effect is white even though it's a mix of LEDs. If you want to use red, you should cluster them with violet and aqua. That will even out and look like white. I know this is a big read, but there's tons of great info in there.
> 
> Full Spectrum LED tank pictures - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums


This is so overly complicated. If you want white... why not just go with white?

Or if you really want to be difficult, for terrestrial pants, do red + blue (which plants mostly use for photosynthesis), and add green to balance it out (R+B+G = white).

Your eyes:









Plants:









From what I've been reading on the boards however, a lot of plants like broms need some UV light (or really bright white light?) to bring out their full coloring. So maybe you need some UVA/UVB LEDs. I mean, charts usually have it cut off at 400nm, but chlorophyll A looks to have activity going on far below 400nm in the UV area


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

*edit:* posted this before I saw your reply hypostatic!

Interesting share dragonfish. It's good to see actual pictures of what people are achieving with their LEDs.

My aim when I purchased the LEDs was to capture the important adsorption spectra for photosynthesis as in the link you provided:









I won't get fancy with my patterns simply for the sake of time and convenience of the wiring. 

The really important thing here is that all colors are dimmable through the code I will be writing. Hence, I think I'll be able to tune the spectrum quite nicely.


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

hypostatic said:


> This is so overly complicated. If you want white... why not just go with white?



Did you actually read any of it? Sure, do just white. It works fine and we all know that. That thread is for people looking to bring out the best colors they can. Pure white LEDs are missing peaks in important areas and the people on that thread are attempting to put them back in. How is mixing color overly complicated? I'm pretty sure people have been doing it since kindergarten.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

All I know right now is that I've got a metric ****-ton of plants and no way to feed them the light they so desperately want for their photosynthesis. 

Thus, my goal is to have a lighting prototype up and running this weekend, or even today if I can find more power resistors. 

Are the intensity of these LEDs safe for the frogs though? They hurt my eyes even for the split second I need to make sure they work.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Dragonfish said:


> Did you actually read any of it? Sure, do just white. It works fine and we all know that. That thread is for people looking to bring out the best colors they can. Pure white LEDs are missing peaks in important areas and the people on that thread are attempting to put them back in. How is mixing color overly complicated? I'm pretty sure people have been doing it since kindergarten.


The thread is for people looking bring out the best colors they can in reef aquariums. Terrariums and aquariums are very different in regards to lighting requirements. Terrariums don't encounter the problem that aquariums do where longer wavelengths are absorbed through the water column. Also, unlike corals, most plants and frogs we use in our terrariums don't fluoresce. 

I haven't seen any compelling evidence that either plants or frogs look much better in some LED color lighting combination than in natural 6500K lighting. However if you have anything indicating otherwise I would love to see it.


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

OMG, I can't believe I have to explain this. I understand that post is about reef tanks! I also understand there is a vast difference between the two hobbies. I've been in reefing for 20 years. I posted that simply because Spaceman is touching on more advanced areas of LED technology. He clearly _likes_ them. He also mentioned, as did others that when mixing in red colors the overall effect resulted in a pinkish spectrum. I thought he and others might actually enjoy reading that thread like I did, but also understand that we can't just mimic what the reef community does. We would actually have to apply the principals to this hobby in a meaningful way. Next time I'll spell it out, and fully expect that if I don't somebody will read WAY TOO MUCH INTO IT. 

I'm not trying to convince you of anything hypostatic. I just thought it was cool and kind of on topic. I'm sorry hypostatic, I didn't realize my post would irritate you so much.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Annnnyway.

About dem frogs and bright lights. Problem?


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

That's a fantastic pic and I'm stealing it. On topic though, I'm too new to know if the lights are too bright for frogs. I do know that 80% of the time my tincs are in the shady areas.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Yes, if the lights are to bright the frogs will hide more. I imagine not because it hurts their eyes, but because it makes them feel more exposed/out in the open.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Plant updates!

A couple of my tilandsias are blooming. This one is T. Araujei (hybrid):










Also got my orchids from Andy's Orchids. Super stoked about these -- will do my best not to kill them. Advice readily accepted!



















from left to right:


Haraella odorata
Bulbophyllum alagense (large form)
Masdevallia herradurae


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

*Second plant update: *

I mentioned yesterday that I had received some aquatics, so here they are:










I noticed some small worms in one the bags, so I decided to hit these with a bleach solution for ~5 minutes. I then rinsed them thoroughly and placed them in temporary jars with carbonated water. 

Plants are: 

Cryptocoryne wendtii "Red"
Rosette sword "Tropica"
Narrowleaf Sagittaria Subulata
Hemianthus callitrichoides "Dwarf baby tears"


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Wired up 5 strings of LEDs the other night:

3 x 3 = 9 cool whites
3 x 2 = 6 royal blues

I then connected the MOSFETs to a shift register (74HC595) so that I could control them with the arduino using minimal pins. Importantly, I had to use NPN transistors to drive the MOSFETs because the FETs I got were not logic-level as I had expected. Oh well. 

I then used software pulse-width modulation to adjust the color balance (reducing the blue output). I've now temporary mounted the unit above the vivarium so that the temporarily mounted broms can get some light.

Lighting to-do:

Permanently wire ALL LEDs (~80 -- 48 white, 24 blue, 8 red) 
Use lower gauge wire
Design and solder up the drive/control circuits (waiting on parts)
Integrate lighting code into primary code


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Nice man!
Well done


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

So much to like about this build..the cleanness of the build, the diy electronics integration, the detailed process. Keep it up really liking what your doing!


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

SpaceMan said:


> Are the intensity of these LEDs safe for the frogs though? They hurt my eyes even for the split second I need to make sure they work.


You might be interested in obtaining a light meter. This way you can measure light levels at specific points in your viv, and you can optimize where to put your orchids so that they are getting the right levels of light.

Wiki tells me that full, unobstructed sunlight has an intensity of approximately 10,000 fc. Considering that most frogs in the hobby live in the understory or forest floor, I'd imagine that they'd be getting around 2%-15% of that light (200fc - 1,500fc). But this is just conjecture on my part; someone else might have a better answer.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks for the praise!

I'm not too worried about the lighting anymore, and will try to place the plants appropriately. Most the orchids I have prefer some degree of shade, so they're going to be placed low , and in the shadow of the broms, branches, and other mounted plants. 

I also have a lot of updates to post and will do when I get the time. 

*I've got a question about substrate:* Currently my substrate plan was to use a mix of Exo Terra Plantation Soil (just happened to have it), orchid bark, perhaps some clay perlite and/or spaghum, and finally charcoal. Atop the substrate will also be a layer of leaf litter.

I also wanted to seed the tank with springtails, and since the culture of springtails I received came in charcoal, can I just use this as a component of my substrate?


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

So from what I've seen, the Exo Terra Plantation Soil looks like peat moss? I'd skip out on the perlite tho. Everything else looks fine. Here's a link to what NE Herp uses for their substrate mix, and it also has the recipe for standard ABG mix.

New England Herpetoculture LLC - Substrate - Vivarium

You might also want to add a calcinated clay if you're planning on breeding oophaga.

Oh and adding the springtail charcoal to the mix is fine.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Been a while, but I've been very busy on this project, just not proud enough of anything to post!

First Orchid bloom! 









Sorry for the camera-quality photo.

First off, I'll say this: I really hate Great Stuff. I decided to use polystyrene as a background base, and then pulled the whole thing out and applied the great stuff outside of the tank. I'm not sure if it was the angle of the can, or the fact that I had used it once before (it's supposed to be a one-time use kind of thing), but the output from the nozzle was extremely inconsistent. 

Anyway, most my plants are epiphytes, so I want a good background to mount them onto. Currently my plan was to cover the foam with black silicone and peat , but I grabbed a bottle of Titebond III just in case. 

As for the electronics, I finally got parts and assembled one complete prototype unit:










Prototype circuit:








Working top right and clockwise around: Arduino Leonardo, Current limiting resistor network (3W, 3.6 Ohm), MOSFET board for LED control, dual shift registers to minimize Arduin pin use. 

Yeah, it's a mess.

Tank photo with some of my more water sensitive plants. I am leaving town for 3 days and won't be able to water these guys. I figured having them in the tank and maybe adding some water to the bottom would help them out. I will also minimize light cycles while I'm gone, or keep them off altogether?










Same question about my Broms, should I just water them a bunch before I leave, then keep the lights off?


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

This build has not been abandoned. 

The tank will be planted Sunday evening, and the final touches should be completed on Monday or Tuesday of next week. 

A couple of items for the water feature in the tank have been partially completed in a prototype sense:

1. Canister Filter (prototype)











I'm using 3" diameter PVC, with a rubber end cap, a threaded adapter, and a screw cap. 

I used a steel male-male connector to "tap" some holes in the PVC. I recommend just borrowing a tap set. 









I then used these plastic drain covers for 3" pipes, and used a coping saw to cut them to fit inside the 3" pipe:









The bottom of the filter consists of activated carbon:









Which I loaded into a makeshift fiberglass screen baggy (probably not the best choice), loaded it into the tube, and put a drain cover over the top.









Then came the ceramic bio rings (and capped with a drain top -- not shown)









And finally a $2 sponge sold for washing cars as the physical filter:

















Testing for leaks:









(Teflon tape is your friend for threaded joints!)

All is good on that front! I'm going to paint the canister filter black, although it will likely reside in a 5 gallon bucket at all times, just in case something awful happens. I'm also adding valves to both the outflow and inflow tubes so that I can isolate the system from the tank when needed. 

The pump is quite powerful, but I have not tested whether it will be able to overcome the 4-5 feet of head. I suspect I will not have too much trouble. 

The other aquatic systems in the works is the CO2 reactor. For now I used what I had on hand, except I purchased a CO2 diffuser after deciding it was worth the $7. At first the system was leaking under pressure. Because this type of porous ceramic diffuser requires high pressure to function at all, this was completely unacceptable. I eventually found the leak and re attached the fittings with super glue instead of silicon. 

The left is the bioreactor (sugar, yeast, a little baking soda) and to the right is the bubble counter. Atop the bubble counter is a check valve to avoid a siphoning situation of the tank water. 









I've only had the system running for 3 or 4 days, but so far it's been very consistent! 










I plan to install the CO2 system along with the canister filter on Sunday or Monday. 

Finally, I've done a little work on the electronics and moved some of my circuitry over to protoboards. However, this is less than ideal and far, far too time consuming. Instead I'm going to put the driver circuits into some CAD software and get some printed boards made. 










The automation portion of this project is lagging behind in favor of getting the ecosystem established. Given the opportunity to do this over, I would have completed the electronics and the infrastructure before buying all these plants!


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## Epiphile (Nov 12, 2009)

This has to be the most DIY I've ever seen go into a vivarium project. Very impressive- looking forward to seeing this come together.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

hypostatic said:


> The thread is for people looking bring out the best colors they can in reef aquariums. Terrariums and aquariums are very different in regards to lighting requirements. Terrariums don't encounter the problem that aquariums do where longer wavelengths are absorbed through the water column. Also, unlike corals, most plants and frogs we use in our terrariums don't fluoresce.
> 
> I haven't seen any compelling evidence that either plants or frogs look much better in some LED color lighting combination than in natural 6500K lighting. However if you have anything indicating otherwise I would love to see it.




Mixing LEDs instead of going with all white makes it possible to achieve a higher CRI (Color rendering Index). This applies to anything, not just saltwater. There are people achieving CRI of 97-98 (supposedly by their own calculations) maybe even 99 to 100 (100 is max). You'd probably notice that when sitting next to a viv that has lighting with CRI only in the high 70's or 80's, maybe 90's if someone is mixing several led and/or different lighting types. 

So it is possible to have 2 aquariums with lighting that both overall average a 6500k color temp and the decent spectrums for plants, *but each look substantially different.* One could have a much higher CRI, that makes the viv, plants, and frogs more pleasant to look at, and/or one may look brighter then the other because of more green thrown in there (Since our eyes see green light better). Which one people will actually prefer to look at may be debatable especially when you can't see them side by side at the same time.

The differences may be subtle, or at least seem subtle when your comparing different times you've seen someones lighting setups. It would likely be more apparent in real life instead of internet pics and video also. If you set several vivs up with different combinations of LED lighting next to each other you'd likely see the difference more then just going off the memory or feel of lighting setups you've seen in the past. 
-----------------------------------------------------

Anyways, I think arduino is going to be a major player in our hobby in the near future. It is becoming more prevalent in the aquarium hobby and builds like this are the beginning for the vivarium hobby. It makes it possible to do just about anything you'd want to do with an aquarium or vivarium.

I intend at some point trying some arduino kits, and I would encourage everyone serious about viv building and lighting to at least familiarize themselves a little with the technology, so you don't get even more overwhelmed later  

Hopefully the Arduino stuff will continue to become more user friendly, and/or we'll see it packaged or built into systems and be pretty much plug and play for us idiots, but tweakable for people who know what they are doing.


I've got a lilypad LED kit and a tiny cylon kit waiting to be soldered together, but after that I'll try jumping into the real arduino stuff. The lilypad kit will find its way into a viv 
---------------------------------------------------------------


It may be to late for this build, but I stumbled on this the other day...

The storm and storm-x
CORALUX | Home of the Storm & Storm X LED Controllers









I have no idea how you actually plug them into lighting fixtures but both are under $100 and even allow you to sync the sunrise sunset feature to a specific part of the world...

16x2 Character LCD Display
16-channel 12-bit PWM (0-5V)
4096 Dimming Levels
Real-Time Clock Module
Manual Sunrise/Sunset Time
Geolocated Sunrise/Sunset
Staggered Sunrise/Set Delays
Moon/Lunar Phase Simulation
Intuitive Wheel Interface
SmoothRamp Dimming
SmoothRamp Clouds
Cloud Channel Clustering
Lightning Storm Effects
Upgradeable via FTDI
Arduino Compatible
Auto-dimming LCD
Quantity


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

How much CO2 do you think you're generating with that tiny little set up wit the yeast? 
Saccharomyces cerevisiae produces ROUGHLY equal moles ethanol and CO2- roughly.
Based on the volume of that bottle, the amount of sugar you could theoretically add, and the inability to use it as a continuous fermentation, I'd say its far from effective.


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## fishman9809 (Dec 8, 2008)

frogparty said:


> How much CO2 do you think you're generating with that tiny little set up wit the yeast?
> Saccharomyces cerevisiae produces ROUGHLY equal moles ethanol and CO2- roughly.
> Based on the volume of that bottle, the amount of sugar you could theoretically add, and the inability to use it as a continuous fermentation, I'd say its far from effective.


It works well for a temporary CO2 setup. Aquarium hobbyists often use them as emergency backup or kids that can't afford real CO2 setups use them permanently and just replace the mix every week. It's good enough for small volumes of water or setups that don't require much added CO2.

EDIT: But I do agree the volume is fairly small if the plan is to use the system as a primary source of CO2.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I'll get to some of the other comments later when I return from the hardware store, but I'll quickly address the CO2 question.

This is a very small CO2 reactor, true. Presently it produces about 1 0.5-1cm diameter bubble every 9 seconds. Roughly speaking, that's at best 1.4 x 10^-4 moles/min or 0.0062g/min of CO2. Only a small fraction of that ever diffuses into the water. 

However, I'm only treating 3-4 gallons of water, and really this is more for my own interests than it is for necessity. All the aquatic plants I have could benefit from the added CO2, but none of them require it. I would also be changing the reactor broth every week or two. 

It's also a lot of fun to learn about the biology and chemistry of these kinds of systems and how they can be helpful to the plant life in these micro-ecosystems.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Nice! I like the DIY canister filter. Simple yet efficient


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## ctsdaxx (Mar 30, 2011)

Man Spaceman this is awesome. I took the same concept with my old basic stamp and had these filter concepts with my reef tanks. Just because I am cheap. I also love the DIY CO2. The concept is very similar to the tetra unit but a lot cheaper. I researched the arduino after I read your post and may actually replace my basic stamp with it for more capabilities. Thanks for the post and keep us all informed on how it goes. Also what are you using for your humidity probe? I am using a basic thermistor for temp but haven't found a good humidity probe.


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

I love how this hobby can bring together so many different subjects, chemistry, programming, biology and of course art! I have never been able to find a decently priced small pump like your using that has an inlet port and an outlet port..where did you find that Spaceman?


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I promise, once again, to get to the older comments when I'm not in a rush out the door. 

Easy questions:

The pump I'm using is actually pretty big and I would prefer a smaller one. But this one was affordable, had good ratings, and packs a punch:
Amazon.com: Taam Rio Plus 1100 Aqua Pump and Powerhead - 382 GPH: Pet Supplies

The sensor I'm using measures both humidity and tempearture and is sold as a DHT11 (low cost) or a DHT22 (more accurate):
Overview | DHTxx Sensors | Adafruit Learning System

Ok I'll be back.


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

Much appreciated!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SpaceMan said:


> I promise, once again, to get to the older comments when I'm not in a rush out the door.
> 
> Easy questions:
> 
> ...


I wonder if those sensors will hold up to vivarium use  Our vivariums seem pretty good at killing many hygrometers.

I found a quick mention of this one possibly being more reliable then the dht22...
Humidity Sensor SHT75: Sensirion AG 

Here is the mention:
Raspberry Pi • View topic - DHT22 humidity sensor stops working


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Dendro Dave - 

I agree that the accessibility of the Arduino platform has made them very popular across many hobbies, artistic projects, and more advanced automation projects. I suspect we'll see more of the like in the future. I started with PIC microcontrollers, but never had a good platform setup for prototyping. Plus, I was programming in assembly, and I never got too advanced with that. 

The StormX is interesting but maybe a little over priced. The hardware in that device totals less than $30, easy. I guess we'd be paying for the production, the firmware, and the fact that it's a niche market. 

I'm not sure how the DHT22 will hold up in the vivarium environment or if the humidity measurements are accurate. I will know in time though and will make the appropriate changes.

The automation side of this project is about a month off from completion. October is a busy month and everything lately has focused on getting everything set up for the frogs that are arriving in less than a week. 

I did some testing with the canister filter to make sure it would function. I configured the plumbing and tweaked the system for a while. Eventually I got the leaks sorted out and things flowing how I wanted. 










I've attached some sponge to the end of the acrylic tubing to keep any fish/shrimp/tadpoles from being pulled into the filter system. It's accessible and could be replaced with a little effort if needed.










Full setup as of now: 









Tomorrow is going to be a busy day. The background has to be siliconed into place, the top has to be trimmed, a temporary lid has to be made, gaps need to be filled, substrate needs laying, and plants need planting. 

Frogs arrive Friday. If I feel the environment isn't ready for them, I'll house them temporarily elsewhere.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Bad news guys: I ****ed up.

I just noticed the black silicon I have been using is actually DYNAFLEX 230 and not 100% silicon. In fact, it's a siliconized latex, so it is water based and contains some not so pleasant chemicals. This also explains why the cure time was so slow. 

What does that mean for me? I have to tear everything out. I have to re-do the false bottom supports, trash the entire background, and remove some of the 230 from the wood pieces. I will also trash the other materials currently in the tank (black quartzite and spaghum fiber) just to be safe. 

For the sake of time, I'm going to simplify the bakckground and go with tree fern panels. I simply won't have the time to do an intricate background again.

Lesson learned: Pay attention to the products you buy.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SpaceMan said:


> Bad news guys: I ****ed up.
> 
> I just noticed the black silicon I have been using is actually DYNAFLEX 230 and not 100% silicon. In fact, it's a siliconized latex, so it is water based and contains some not so pleasant chemicals. This also explains why the cure time was so slow.
> 
> ...


Have you considered sealing that dynaflex with a clear urethane spray and/or clear plasti dip? You might have trash some of the other stuff you got it on, but if you bead silicone around edges of the background to make sure water doesn't get behind there and do several layers of clear urethane or plasti dip I'd think you'd be inert enough to be safe. You could even just use silicone to paint over all of it in the same way'd you'd use the plasti dip or urethane. Might take a couple tubes. 

Your background isn't crazy 3d except for that one piece of wood in there, so you're not loosing to much by just switching to fern or epiweb panels. So you're call, I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to play it extra safe.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I thought about doing that, and I think I will for some of the smaller things I sealed, but for most everything else I'm pulling and trashing. The background is the biggest problem as not only did I use the 230 to seal it to the glass, but I also used it to seal the Great Stuff and polystyrene, and coat these with peat. There's no way to seal that!

Anyway, I'm going to redouble my efforts and create a temporary enclosure for the frogs arriving this week. Then I'll continue on their permanent home. 

I already tore everything out and am removing the black "silicon" from the glass as we speak.\

I should also say that since I'm now going with a tree fern background, I'll need a good plant to take over the walls to make them look more natural. Any suggestions?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SpaceMan said:


> I thought about doing that, and I think I will for some of the smaller things I sealed, but for most everything else I'm pulling and trashing. The background is the biggest problem as not only did I use the 230 to seal it to the glass, but I also used it to seal the Great Stuff and polystyrene, and coat these with peat. There's no way to seal that!
> 
> Anyway, I'm going to redouble my efforts and create a temporary enclosure for the frogs arriving this week. Then I'll continue on their permanent home.
> 
> ...


I'm a big fan of selaginella uncinata since it is iridescent 









But once it gets established it might require regular pruning in a small tank.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Dendro Dave said:


> I'm a big fan of selaginella uncinata since it is iridescent
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's very pretty! The Selaginella I currently have is Kraussiana, or "Gold Tips". I'm not sure how quickly this would spread onto a tree fern wall though.

How quickly does Uncinata grow?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SpaceMan said:


> That's very pretty! The Selaginella I currently have is Kraussiana, or "Gold Tips". I'm not sure how quickly this would spread onto a tree fern wall though.
> 
> How quickly does Uncinata grow?


Once it gets established it can spread quite a bit, and fairly fast... It will kinda send out runners, or more like leafed branches with little dangling roots that will likely zero in on humid spots. I don't know if it would grow all the way up the fern panel wall without a drip line or misting system since that is kinda an airy substrate but I'd guess it will at least get half way, and if you have a misting system it will probably overtake most of the wall eventually. 

IMO it is manageable with pruning once its is going full blast, like maybe you can get away with a good trim every month or 2 maybe 3.... but it depends on how much work you're willing to accept. I find it isn't to much of a hassle and is worth it for the looks, no worse then many other viv plants, but you may or may not. 

It really makes things look lush when it is grown in though, and the iridescence is nice. You could also add in some jewel orchids like macodes petola with their metallic/iridescent veins on the leaves.









And then if you wanna be really cool (Like me ) mix in some Blue Oxalis Shamrock Pea (Parochetus communis).








Took a couple years but I finally got it to flower in a viv before I ripped it up to transplant to another viv. It is still recovering. I just planted some more seeds though so hopefully I'll have more coming up. 

You can read about my blue flower exploits here...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/56368-possible-choices-blue-flowers-vivs-4.html


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

That really suck with the silicone, on the bright side at least this tank isn't massive so there isn't too much time/supplies going to waste. ( I have left newspaper on the backside of a 90 gallon background only to remember after planting and running water lol, needless to say it was not fun to fix but youll be glad you did.


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## JohnVI (May 1, 2013)

Is it possible to use the CO2 water additive for a water side of a pladarium? The frogs don't obviously go into the water, but wanted to ask if it was harmful.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

What do you mean by a CO2 additive? In any case, even if the frogs stay out of the water, I will have some small fish and shrimp in the water. 

Great shares Dendro Dave! I really enjoying flowering plants, which is why I have micro orchids for this tank. Some of them are already blooming too!

Here's an update on this project:

- The tank has been stripped, dried out, and cleaned. It is now back to page one.
- Tree Fern panels arrived today, I may or may not need one more pack, it'll be close. 
- Frogs arrived today! They're being housed in a temporary tank while this project is re-born.

Here's one of them:


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

JohnVI said:


> Is it possible to use the CO2 water additive for a water side of a pladarium? The frogs don't obviously go into the water, but wanted to ask if it was harmful.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


There shouldn't be any problem using some kinda co2 system in a viv as long as it is balanced enough that it doesn't suffocate everything in the water. 

The only difficulty would be hiding the setup and reaching it for maintenance maybe.


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## JohnVI (May 1, 2013)

My question was not on an entire physical setup, but rather a additive. API has a additive called CO2 booster. I have used this and flourish excel in other tanks (without pdf's), and it's amazing what it does for growth rate. My question is can I use this additive in your opinion in my water portion of my PDF environment. co2 is Co2, or maybe it's not, I honestly don't know. I have an entire bottle of this, and just wanted opinions as to the safety of using this..my Luecs don't venture into that side obviously, but just not sure.

Thoughts?


John VI

-Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

JohnVI said:


> My question was not on an entire physical setup, but rather a additive. API has a additive called CO2 booster. I have used this and flourish excel in other tanks (without pdf's), and it's amazing what it does for growth rate. My question is can I use this additive in your opinion in my water portion of my PDF environment. co2 is Co2, or maybe it's not, I honestly don't know. I have an entire bottle of this, and just wanted opinions as to the safety of using this..my Luecs don't venture into that side obviously, but just not sure.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ...


Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood. Here is the product info page...
Welcome to API Fishcare: CO2 Booster®

And the wiki on the active ingredient in both...
Glutaraldehyde - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Here is a forum thread about API vs Flourish
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/api-co2-booster-v-flourish-excel-183712.html
And another about api that mentions flourish...
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/beginner-planted-aquarium/api-co2-booster-91800/

It looks like in pure form there could be some issues handling it, but considering it is said to be fish safe when diluted (did read a report about it killing fish but the guy OD'd them I think) in aquarium water and used properly; I would think it is likely amphibian safe too, especially since the frogs won't be swimming in the water 24/7 like fish. This is pretty much virgin territory though, so it's going to be up to the individual to make the call and determine if it is worth the risk. I think if the directions are followed the risk would be minimal enough that I wouldn't think anyone was nuts for doing it. 

I may try some for growing utricularia graminifolia or other utricularia at some point in a viv, or if I do a really well planted pond section in a viv and wanna grow some foreground plants... I'm glad I've heard of it now


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## JohnVI (May 1, 2013)

Dendro Dave said:


> Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood. Here is the product info page...
> Welcome to API Fishcare: CO2 Booster®
> 
> And the wiki on the active ingredient in both...
> ...


Thanks Dave,

The CO2 additive works extremely well, and I'm going to use it at a very low volume. I do water changes every 3 weeks, @ 1/2, use distilled/ro water to fill back, and check ph, nitrate (low due to ro water), ammonia, and a few others. It might be that extra boost of co2, delivered in an extremely easy way, to give the aquatic plants a boost...I am heavily planted....that just sounds weird...but true...

thanks again for the info...

FYI ...I did the unthinkable you mentioned, but in a test tank with some feeders and simple JM to get my dosage...went away for 2dats, forgot to mark my tank sticker, and dosed the day I came back...plants were toast a week later, and the few feeders gone...my new motto....if in doubt, go without.....


John..


John VI

-Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I noticed the other night that the wood I had removed and set out to dry (the wood that was partially submerged) was growing mold in the regions that were damp. It's a white/green fungus of some sort. 

This raises questions about whether I should use this wood at all. What do you guys think? Switching my wood feature will delay the build significantly, but it would be safer I suppose.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Mold is common in vivs. I'm not a big fan of ponds and waterfalls in vivs for frogs: the management of water in the viv should be done with care because, if neglected, the water can be home and vehicle of potential pathogens. The viv must be built for frogs, IMO. For the rest, I expect from you a nice viv!


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks Rigel.

I'm not sure how much of the thread you saw, but I am employing a canister filter for the water feature, and will also be monitoring the water quality with a test kit on a weekly basis. 

My bigger concern with the water feature is drowning.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SpaceMan said:


> I noticed the other night that the wood I had removed and set out to dry (the wood that was partially submerged) was growing mold in the regions that were damp. It's a white/green fungus of some sort.
> 
> This raises questions about whether I should use this wood at all. What do you guys think? Switching my wood feature will delay the build significantly, but it would be safer I suppose.





rigel10 said:


> Mold is common in vivs. I'm not a big fan of ponds and waterfalls in vivs for frogs: the management of water in the viv should be done with care because, if neglected, the water can be home and vehicle of potential pathogens. The viv must be built for frogs, IMO. For the rest, I expect from you a nice viv!


Rigel's right about the mold.. inescapable part of having a vivarium. The viv will reach an equilibrium, but it is good to give it a few weeks, or even months before adding frogs. Same principle as the nitrogen cycle in aquariums... In fact our vivs probably go through a nitrogen cycle too, but basically it takes time for the environment to sort itself out and be best capable of supporting the frogs and their waste and tackling whatever bacteria, viruses, fungi they bring in with them or that came in on other vectors like plants, rocks, wood, air etc... 

As for the water, there are good reasons not to mess with water features, but I'll have to diverge a little from Rigel here and say you can in fact leave water in a viv, and just top it off as it evaporates and it will be able to support fish, and/or tadpole life. It shouldn't be dangerous unless you've introduced a pathogen or contaminate. Much of that stuff would survive in our moist viv soil anyways, so having or not having a pond isn't going to save you probably. 

But a small ponds equilibrium can be overwhelmed if to many insects, tads or fish die in them. Sometimes tads just don't make it. It isn't necessarily the pond water that killed them, but you wanna remove the tad, and maybe replace some water if if the tad was dead for very long so it doesn't foul the water for other tads. 

Typically it takes a few months for new ponds to really settle down, but once a good crop of beneficial bacteria colonize your pond shore, rocks, and especially if you introduce plants to help filter the water, you'll eventually reach a point where it is basically a pond like any pond in nature. Again the concept of biological equilibrium comes up, and there is a limit to the biological load the pond can cope with through biological filtration. But generally a few dead springtails, fruitflies and frog turd or 2 won't screw things up so bad that stuff starts dying on you.

I've had fish live for years in water that was never changed and had no filtration, watched frogs jump in and out of ponds like that and raise tads that morphed out fine, and had very little mortality over the years (except for that dang ice storm disaster and a few escapes). 

One thing I do though that I think helps my ponds be "life friendly" Is construct them so that the pond shares it's water reservior with the false bottom or drainage layer. So my pond is however deep the water table is in the false bottom. I construct the false bottom with this in mind. 

I typically like near 3 inches at least, and then I just leave my false bottom almost full of water but with an air gap between it and the substrate, though you can flood the tank a little and not have the viv implode on you. The trick is just mist enough to keep the water level constant, or if it does drop keep it topped off and don't over mist and flood the tank. A drilled tank with an overflow helps but I've yet to bother doing that. I just cut back on misting if the water table gets to high. 

It is hard for a viv to dry out to much when it has water in the false bottom unless you have an all screen top, not many plants and/or live in a very very dry climate, and with the actual total volume of water being the entire water table rather then just that little pond area full of water, your little pond can handle more biological load then it could if it wasn't sharing its water table with the vivs watertable. So my little ponds just look little but they aren't


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Awesome input as always Dendro Dave.

Of course the way I have it currently setup is that the water feature is sharing the water table with the false bottom. The water doesn't actually contact the soil layer, but it's probably a mere 5mm from the separator. 

The volume of the water is fairly large as compared to most false bottom setups. I'd say it's about 5 gallons. Because of the "tall" rather than "wide" nature of the tank, I don't expect fast evaporation, but I intend to be topping off the water regularly through my drainage line and or through regular misting.

Originally I wanted the canister filter to return the filtered water through a waterfall or a drip wall, but I'm leaning more and more against this option and am considering purchasing a small MistKing system. I really wanted to avoid purchasing a misting system as it conflicts with the DIY nature of this project, but I just don't think I can implement a reliable misting system for less than $99. The pump will be connected to a relay board that will be connected to the arduino. I'll have to determine a nominal misting frequency to keep the water level constant as well as the plants happy. 

Because I plan on having forced convection, I can adjust the evaporation rates somewhat if I require more misting for the plants. 

My plan was to move the frogs in by November to allow the vivarium to establish itself and work out all the kinks. That means my frogs will be in their temporary environment for a month. 

* Questions about the temporary tank: *

It's only 5 gallon, but for this species (2.2 R. Amazonica) I think it's adequate for the time-frame. However, I am open to change this if suggested.

I used paper towels as a substrate, but then went on to add leaf litter and a bunch of broms (5-6) so they could hide and feel more comfortable. That means that changing the papertowel layer frequently will be both a hassle and a stress on the frogs. Any better ideas?


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I decided that I was unhappy with the wood I had previously selected. Most of it is OK, but the bottom portion is significantly less dense than the rest of the wood. I'm not sure if this is just a result of how the tree grew, or if it had started rotting from being in/around the lake for so long. In any case, I decided to toss it. 

That meant I had to find a replacement, and boy did I get lucky. I found a beautiful piece of... well, I'm not actually sure. It's very hard and has some very interesting texture. You can also see the branch that grew out and then back into the tree. 

In any case, I cut a 2' long piece that I thought would be appropriate for a centerpiece.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

10 gallons is better for 4 frogs, although as temporary tank. For a few days it goes well with paper towel, otherwise it is better to set up a tank with Leca, hydrofleeche, many many leaves, some plants, woods and film canister. A temporary tank, yes, but very similar to a def tank.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks Rigel, I'll get on setting up something that is somewhat more permanent!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SpaceMan said:


> Thanks Rigel, I'll get on setting up something that is somewhat more permanent!


Always good to have a spare viv, vivs and/or temporary containers. You never know when you might need to pull a frog, or something will come up for sale you just can't resist. Can be handy as plant grow out areas too. I find a lot of plants do better if you leave them in their pot and let them adapt to viv humidity/moisture before planting them. Like I got 2 begonia pavoninas, and 1 melted when I transplanted it. The other I left in the pot and sat i a viv (not proper plant cleaning QT/cleaning procedure), and it burned through a bunch of leaves for a couple weeks then settled down and the cutting I took mostly did ok, while cuttings from the first plant melted.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Good points Dave.

Since these guys prefer vertical space, I'm thinking I'll setup a 10 gallon vertical over the next few days, probably without a background for now. 

I'm considering following this guide:
10gal DIY Vertical Conversion

Since I have some plexiglass laying around.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Okay folks, the 10 gallon build took front seat over the last few days and it is now nearly complete. It's a far more traditional build than what this thread is about, but I thought I'd include it here anyway instead of making a whole new thread. 

Purpose: temporary housing for 4 R. Amazonicas (duration ~ 1 month). 
Extended-purpose: Plants, temporary storage for froglets. 

I went vertical for all the obvious reasons. Mostly because these guys prefer the vertical space, and secondly because it's a smaller foot print and will fit nicely into my book shelf.

The conversion was accomplished using some 1/8" plexiglass I had laying around. I cut this into two fitting pieces, one for the permanent siliconed bottom piece, and the other for the opening door. The hinge was a plastic "living" hinge from U"S Plastics. These come in 6' lengths, and ship in giant rectangular boxes. Needless to say, I only needed about 8" of the hinge. 

The hinge is designed for 3/16" pieces, so I used electrical tape on the bottom of the plexiglass to pad the space. 

Everything else is pretty standard. Tree fern fiber background, egg-crate false bottom, fiberclass mesh, ABG-like substrate. I made sure to leave some padding space around my false bottom so that the substrate would fall in and create the effect that the false bottom isn't there. 

Finally I added a 6" piece of SCH40 PVC for quick and easy access to the bottom of the tank if I ever need to siphon water out. It's capped right now with a sponge pushed in as a plug. 

That's about it! I'll add leaf litter tomorrow, and some plants that I've had growing in a storage location for the last month (in prep for the main build) tomorrow. Will either add the frogs the same day or this weekend. 





































This is another piece I sawed off from the piece I found for my main build. This driftwood is amazing and I'm so happy I found it. Boiled for 20 minutes, baked for 2 hours. 


















What I didn't show is the gap-filling of the background with spaghum, or the plants I've already added. 

Oh and yes, I'm working on a vent as well, no worries!


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

And the temporary tank is planted! Some of these plants will be swapped into the permanent tank when the time comes. 

Last thing to do is create the vent, which I'm still on the fence about how to implement. I have ideas, some better than others.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Had a bit of time this evening and decided to go ahead with the top vent. 

I wanted to make use of what I had at home so I decided to use more acrylic for the vent. This has certain drawbacks as acrylic is no fun to work with (in my opinion). I don't have a good scoring tool, so I've been using the dull side of a box cutter, but frankly I can't get clean breaks unless the score line is across a narrow dimension. After much experimentation I just went with a coping saw for the long cut. 

In any case I laid out a close-packed grid and began drilling. This was very time consuming but yielded some great knowledge:

I really need a drill press
Without a drill press make sure to have something behind the acrylic that the bit can go into and be supported.
Don't put a lot of pressure on the bit like you might when drilling wood. This could lead to breaks and crack, esp. for closely drilled holes.
Drill slowly until the bit gets a bite into the surface, then speed up. You want the RPM of the bit to be at its highest when breaching the back face -- this, combined with only using the drills weight as downward force, will reduce cracking/breaking. 

Anyway, I'm happy with the result. I still need to glue down fiberglass screen to the back face to keep frogs and fruit flies from escaping. Mostly frogs. 

Oh, I also used another 8" piece of that plastic living hinge, that way I can open the vent for misting access. 

Image dump!

Here's the layout. Honestly what took the longest was cutting this piece of acrylic to this size. The cut is a little rough because I was using a coping saw with a blade designed for wood. I probably could have cleaned it up with some sanding. Table saws and band saws would be wonderful.









Holes drilled and cleaned:









This is what happens when you're aggressive with the drill, chipping and cracking.









Installed with living hinge for easy misting access.









Pretty much done... it will be moved to the bookshelf barely visible in the background. 









Sorry about derailing my own thread.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

If you wanna FF proof that top vent this might help...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...c-filter-foam-fans-vents-ff-lids-etc-etc.html

It will cut down on airflow some. If you didn't mind scrapping that vent you could even cut a frame out of cardboard (or something, I use the clear plastic strips that come on aquarium hoods or glass tops), spray that with plasti dip and then silicone the black foam to the frame and set the whole thing in that channel. Either way you could use cutable stickly magnetic tape there to help secure it if you needed to.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Yeah I've seen this thread of yours before in response to another post, I believe. It seems suitable for this purpose, but as you mentioned, I worry about air flow. For now, the number of escaped fruit flies is tolerable. I think what I'll do instead is find some mosquito-netting and use that in place of the fiberglass screen. 

The frogs were moved into their new tank, and they seemed extremely happy! Of course I'm projecting human emotions onto tiny little thumbnail frogs, but they certainly were excited and curious about their new home. I noticed lots of exploration and "toe-tapping" behavior. 

I had to hack away at my book shelf, but It fits snugly: 









I now plan to wall-mount the entire book shelf, but this is starting to deserve it's own thread. * I believe I made a fatal mistake in assuming the black plastic rim of the 10 gallon tank was sealed. * I noticed a small link near the bottom front, and ruled out a poor seal of the acrylic. This means I'm probably going to have to squeeze some silicone between the black plastic rim and the glass...

Back to the main project, I decided to experiment with using VGA connectors for the lighting. This allows for quick disconnects, and makes the lighting units interchangeable. It's only a prototype, hence the black electrical tape.


















Finally, experimenting with the LED lighting on the temporary tank. Right now I'm only operating in on/off mode, so I'm not mixing colors right now. I've already began work on a dawn, morning, noon, evening, dusk, twilight sequence. It has not been fully implemented and the code is a hack-job.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

*Automated misting: Solenoid Brainstorming*

I almost impulse bought a MistKing Starter setup today. Everyone uses them, and they're worth the money from what I've read. However, I exercised restraint as I thought it would go against the philosophy of this build, and that it was overkill for my needs..

Here is my idea instead -- maybe it's been done already: 

I use one of those hand-pump weed-sprayers for my misting like many of us do. I removed the nozzle and realized the assembly is threaded and could easily be adapted into a line directly to a permanent nozzle in the tank (so long as I use tubing rated for the pressure). This already has an advantage as it means I can leave the bottle on the floor, pump it, and release. No opening of any access ports, no awkwardness. 

But the key here is automation. Misting will be the primary means in which I control humidity in the climate control algorithm, so I need control over the misting system some how. Well, why not a small solenoid? There are suitable ones on ebay for $14, which makes it worth trying just for the heck of it. 

1 4" NPT Electric Solenoid Valve 12 Volt DC 12VDC N C Ro Air Water BBTF | eBay

In this scheme, I would first workout how much volume of water I can mist from a single pressurization. It will be a relatively small quantity, but for humidity control in a wet vivarium with a large water feature, I really don't need to spray much. Short periodic bursts throughout the day would be sufficient to keep items moist enough to encourage moss growth, and then additional bursts could be sequenced as needed. 

I would then pressurize the system in the morning, and from then on, the code takes over and actuates the solenoid valve. I imagine the solenoid will need to be positioned as near to the misting nozzle as possible. Otherwise there's a large low pressure dead-volume downstream of the valve (the tubing). 

Where this wouldn't work: 


Vacations (someone would need to pressurize the system daily)
Large tanks/many tanks
Long-term (not sure how well these tanks keep pressure in the long run)


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

This temporary viv is gorgeous! It is better than many definitive vivs. Think of it as a final viv for a pair of thumbnails.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SpaceMan said:


> *Automated misting: Solenoid Brainstorming*
> 
> I almost impulse bought a MistKing Starter setup today. Everyone uses them, and they're worth the money from what I've read. However, I exercised restraint as I thought it would go against the philosophy of this build, and that it was overkill for my needs..
> 
> ...


This kinda does something similar, though you might need to find a way to expand its reservoir and fit a spray/mist nozzle. Anyways just tossing it out there...


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

A couple of suggestions for your misting system

The problem I see with the pressurized container and solenoid is that, like you said, it will need to be re-pressurized daily and you still need to incorporate some sort of digital timer that has a resolution of seconds.

Now seeing as your quite capable of dealing with electronics and programming you could make your own digital timer using a DS1307 RTC connected to your arduino and a relay. When I looked into this the cost savings were not really worth it for me since it needed to be under $30 to not just buy it from mistking. But I might look back into this soon as I have a few more ideas that might reduce the cost. 


Now the pressurized container and solenoid idea has some downsides that you could avoid if you were able to find a small diaphragm pump you could forgo the need for either of these things and just have the digital timer trigger this pump when needed. The problem I had with this was finding a decently priced pump and a decently priced power supply to match it. 

Another option in place of the solenoid and pressurized container could be modifying the motomister by zoomed 



 which I have considered making a portable misting system with. This would interface very nicely with your arduino because all that happens when you hold the trigger is a tiny tactile switch is pressed activating the DC motor in the head which pumps the water from the reservoir, you could easily mimic a button push with one of the arduinos outputs. You could even get a DC power supply to replace the batteries it uses. The downside of this method would be that you wont get a huge amount of pressure so you wont have a fine mist I think.

All in all mistking while it makes the DIY side of me unhappy is worth the money for the starter kit if you ever plan on expanding to more than one vivarium which lets face it always happens. I would definitely look more into making a cheaper alternative if I ever build a tank for someone else that will definitely not be making more tanks. 

Keep the DIY mindset going!


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

Thanks for the idea Dave, however I don't think an implementation like that will be suitable for this setup. It's a great an example of re-purposing existing technology for new applications though!

Singhm, good points and interesting ideas! However, I still think the best way for me is to attempt the solenoid implementation anyway. I could source the appropriate pumps, but things start to add up and get expensive, and perhaps more importantly, it's just not quiet enough. 

I actually won't need any special ICs! The Arduino can use its own oscillator for timing, if absolutely necessary, but I will have my Arduino talking to a RaspberryPi, which will be connected to my network. Thus, the RaspPi will keep the Arduino synced up properly, and can also be used to interface and create timing tables. 

Once the bare-bones automation is completed (lighting, misting, air flow), I'll turn my attention towards developing a web-based GUI I can access and modify the system, set parameters, etc. The first version will be implemented solely in Python. 

I'm still excited about this project despite how many delays I've faced, and how much my time has been otherwise occupied. 

Oh, and this guy wants to say hello:









http://i.imgur.com/ndI0WUo.jpg (full size)


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

Boooo do it in C! Still need to learn python


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

singhm29 said:


> Boooo do it in C! Still need to learn python


Well for the Arduino I'm using C because it's native and the compiler is built for C. However, for the RaspberryPi, python is a much more appropriate choice than something like C. It's object-oriented, it provides simple libraries information off of the web, and it's popular these days! 

You should definitely pick it up.


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## SpaceMan (Aug 25, 2013)

I just wanted to drop in and say that this project has not been forgotten, and I will be back in the next couple of days to make some in-depth updates.

In short though, there's no significant progress on the setup. I've been experimenting with the canister filter I built on the side, and after encountering algea problems, I'm starting to lean towards abandoning the water feature. It will be more work than it's worth, and frankly I've always been uneasy about the frogs drowning. 

However, I have been expanding and tweaking the automation aspect of the project and have left town for more than a week on several occasions while controlling:

- Humidity control via both a mister and an ultrasonic humidifier piped in.
- Lighting via direct control over the LEDs (if necessary, otherwise they follow a sinusoidal sun-cycle)
- Temperature with an external heat lamp connected to a relay. This has been very useful on at least one occasion where the thermostat was set pretty low (no one was home, likely the landlord's doing). 
- Air flow/Temperature/Humidity via a CPU fan I've wired up.

At the same time, I've been able to monitor:
- Humidity via the DHT22
- Temperature via the same, and also via a number of temperature sensors I've got wired up in and out of the tank. Eventually I'll put one outside the house as well. 
- HD snapshots -- wired up my DSLR and I serve the photos the interwebs using the RaspPi as a web server. This is probably the most useful feature I've added as it allows to make sure nothing has gone wrong, and that the frogs are happy. 

But who cares about any of that, I just needed an excuse to share this guy with y'all.








full res: http://i.imgur.com/W0yxA8D.jpg


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

SpaceMan said:


> But who cares about any of that, I just needed an excuse to share this guy with y'all.


You never need an excuse to share frog pics on dendroboard!


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## JBE (Nov 16, 2012)

So the DHT22 is working well for you? I have a similar system that's been running for a little over two years. I started with a DHT22, but mine didn't last long. I've since switched to an HIH-4021, I've had much better luck with it.


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