# frog info d. hist. white leg



## swirlygig (Dec 4, 2008)

All i have to say is wow.... how do i get ahold of a pair of these guys?

Oophaga sylvatica (Dendrobates sylvaticus


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## swirlygig (Dec 4, 2008)

or this

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/at...75653-what-species-do-you-covet-most-1627.jpg


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

move to europe.


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

Do you happen to have an awful lot of money? 

Actually thats probably the coolest pic of sylvaticus I've seen.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

Thier here....Thier few and far between and thankfully the people that have them don't let them get out...we had our chance with this frogs and we blew it..
Brian


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Don't hold out on us if you've got a source!


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

frogparty said:


> Don't hold out on us if you've got a source!


If your talking to me...this is the last place I would tell any one about a frog like that the people keeping them would get nailed with all sorts of garbage ... Thier out thier for each to find on his own..
Brian


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Man, looks photoshopped.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Brian Ferriera said:


> we had our chance with this frogs and we blew it..
> Brian


Could you elaborate on this a bit Brian? Or direct me to some discussion on this topic? Was there an import of histos to NA at some point?

Cheers,


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

Back in the mid 90's this was a $30-$50 frog they where imported in very large numbers yet their are very few still around form any of the imports.
Brian


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Brian Ferriera said:


> Back in the mid 90's this was a $30-$50 frog they where imported in very large numbers yet their are very few still around form any of the imports.
> Brian


Same can be said about pumilio. They were a $20 frog back then as well and most of those were lost too. Pumilio care has come a long way and it's probably only a matter of time before these guys follow the pumilio route.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

jubjub47 said:


> Same can be said about pumilio. They were a $20 frog back then as well and most of those were lost too. Pumilio care has come a long way and it's probably only a matter of time before these guys follow the pumilio route.


Unless Columbia or Ecuador open back up that wont happen.. Pumilio never really stooped being imported ether..they slowed down but thier was always a trickle of them...Histrionicus haven't been imported in over a decade.
Brian


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Too difficult to breed because of their egg feeding? I know there are some still floating around, and now 10 to 15 years later we have learned so much in the ways of proper husbandry for egg feeders. Too bad. Maybe someday there will be some LEGITIMATE captive bred animals more available.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

frogparty said:


> Too difficult to breed because of their egg feeding? I know there are some still floating around, and now 10 to 15 years later we have learned so much in the ways of proper husbandry for egg feeders. Too bad. Maybe someday there will be some LEGITIMATE captive bred animals more available.


I think a big part of it was getting in good strong animals to begin with.. what we need is the right person to collect and ship them back here..
Brian


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogparty said:


> Too difficult to breed because of their egg feeding? I know there are some still floating around, .


There are a small number of cb offspring around but these animals are usually going to pair up other animals to try and get them established. 

When I had them come into the pet store when I worked I was buying them wholesale really cheap and selling them for 24.99 to 29.99. 

Ed


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

I found this thread the other day searching around...its kind of scary but works for this thread 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/25788-frogs-came-into-us-90s.html
Brian


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

So if there is a dedicated effort to try and establish cb populations, but animals are limited, are morphs like bullseye getting mixed with koi? just to get any genetics at all? I would imagine the gene pool is pretty shallow by now. I bet the histos are going for like 10 times what you used to pay nowadays aern't they?


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

frogparty said:


> So if there is a dedicated effort to try and establish cb populations, but animals are limited, are morphs like bullseye getting mixed with koi? just to get any genetics at all? I would imagine the gene pool is pretty shallow by now. I bet the histos are going for like 10 times what you used to pay nowadays aern't they?


The problume with doing that is that histores have been split into 2 frogs now and thats with limited research...you cant just start mixing animals.
Brian


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Koi or Whitefoot (first pic).
Just as with the Blue Jeans that came in in abhorrent condition years ago and just as with about every other frog we now have in our hobby here, the health of the frog during and soon after the import is of extreme import. There used to be certain pumilio morphs which were thought to be very difficult to breed. But I have not worked with a pair or group of any morph which did not breed, if started off on the right foot. Just as pumilio were thought to be very hard to breed, histo and sylvaticus are now believed by many to be very difficult. Good health of founding stock, testing, quarantine and patience has proven that histos and sylvaticus are not nearly as difficult to breed and keep as once thought...I'm not saying by any means that histos or sylvaticus are beginner frogs, but absolutely neither are pums.
I hope to be getting in a couple pairs of Kois within the next couple weeks. Yes, a crazy beautiful frog.

Rich


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Wow! I just looked throught the 90's list! If only I hadn't been obsessed with grunge rock and tarantulas! 
But... nowadays we get things like std lamasi, benedicta, veradero imitator, vanzolinii
So we still have a lot of goodness to be thankful for.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Brian Ferriera said:


> Back in the mid 90's this was a $30-$50 frog they where imported in very large numbers yet their are very few still around form any of the imports.
> Brian


I would say your about 10 years off, mid eighties. The mid nineties they were smuggled in andprices were a bit higher but not a lot, $65 - $85 Lehmanni and the same for Histo's at that time.
The white leg frog is a Colombian Histrionicus from the Nareno area of Colombia, the southernmost and poorest area of Colombia, just north of Ecuador. Not sure if southern Colombia frogs are considered Histo's or Sylvaticus.
mark


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

markpulawski said:


> I would say your about 10 years off, mid eighties. The mid nineties they were smuggled in andprices were a bit higher but not a lot, $65 - $85 Lehmanni and the same for Histo's at that time.
> The white leg frog is a Colombian Histrionicus from the Nareno area of Colombia, the southernmost and poorest area of Colombia, just north of Ecuador. Not sure if southern Colombia frogs are considered Histo's or Sylvaticus.
> mark


Thanks for clearing that up mark..i could have sworn I saw them that cheep in the 90's but I don't doubt you 
Brian


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## Ontariofrogger1973 (Oct 18, 2008)

wooooooooww! those are some insane frogs. wow. awsomeness.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

markpulawski said:


> I would say your about 10 years off, mid eighties. The mid nineties they were smuggled in andprices were a bit higher but not a lot, $65 - $85 Lehmanni and the same for Histo's at that time.
> The white leg frog is a Colombian Histrionicus from the Nareno area of Colombia, the southernmost and poorest area of Colombia, just north of Ecuador. Not sure if southern Colombia frogs are considered Histo's or Sylvaticus.
> mark


Some time around 95 or 96 I had a group of Histos sent to me from a gentleman in Atlanta - I think they were between $40-$50 each, too bad I think they were all male


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

In the mid to late 90's the Ecuadorian Histo's (now Sylvaticus) were showing up, they were mostly orange. This was a farm raised operation until the authorities discovered there was no breeding at the farm, they were brought in with Tricolor's and Belougeri (spelling?). Brian perhaps these were the Histo's you were thinking of, they were from $30 to $55 depending on where you got them. They did come out with legal CITES documents.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

markpulawski said:


> Belougeri (spelling?). .


boulengeri. 

I sold these in the pet store for $3.99 each. I got them whole sale for $ 0.99 each. 

Ed


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Those were exactly them, bright orange with brown marbling/webbing. They are the Ecuadorian ones on Robb's website that he describes as difficult to work with



markpulawski said:


> In the mid to late 90's the Ecuadorian Histo's (now Sylvaticus) were showing up, they were mostly orange. This was a farm raised operation until the authorities discovered there was no breeding at the farm, they were brought in with Tricolor's and Belougeri (spelling?). Brian perhaps these were the Histo's you were thinking of, they were from $30 to $55 depending on where you got them. They did come out with legal CITES documents.


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## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

markpulawski said:


> In the mid to late 90's the Ecuadorian Histo's (now Sylvaticus) were showing up, they were mostly orange. This was a farm raised operation until the authorities discovered there was no breeding at the farm, they were brought in with Tricolor's and Belougeri (spelling?). Brian perhaps these were the Histo's you were thinking of, they were from $30 to $55 depending on where you got them. They did come out with legal CITES documents.


Yep that was them!
Brian


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Ed said:


> boulengeri.
> 
> I sold these in the pet store for $3.99 each. I got them whole sale for $ 0.99 each.
> 
> Ed


I can imagine how difficult they would have been to sell, hard to believe they are a species of Dendrobatid frog. I never knew anyone that bought one, but I saw them at all the herp shows back then.
I remember during that same time frame there were a bunch of WC Leucs being smuggled in, they were also on many tables of the local herp shows.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

markpulawski said:


> I can imagine how difficult they would have been to sell, hard to believe they are a species of Dendrobatid frog. I never knew anyone that bought one, but I saw them at all the herp shows back then.
> I remember during that same time frame there were a bunch of WC Leucs being smuggled in, they were also on many tables of the local herp shows.


Yep,

I don't think I sold a single one of the ones I had gotten it. I remember a number of people looking at them but when they saw how small they were and that they didn't have anything really in the way of color they dropped thier interest. 

Ed


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Shame really, they look like amazing little frogs (but I'm partial to the little brown leaf litter frogs). I think someone is bringing them in this month for about $100 each. Wild.


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

stemcellular said:


> Shame really, they look like amazing little frogs (but I'm partial to the little brown leaf litter frogs). I think someone is bringing them in this month for about $100 each. Wild.


I'm sure. . .


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

I left the hobby for many years and returned in 2007 to find no histrionicus available anymore. It was shocking and depressing. Back when my brother and I had them in 1994 histrionicus and auratus were about the only PDFs coming into the pet shop where my brother worked. This is the morph I had.... 








(pic from Sean Stewart/Herpetologic.net)


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Yeah that was the morph I had too, and when I got back into it myself I found that I couldn't get these anymore which really sucked cuz they were great frogs



gothaicus said:


> I left the hobby for many years and returned in 2007 to find no histrionicus available anymore. It was shocking and depressing. Back when my brother and I had them in 1994 histrionicus and auratus were about the only PDFs coming into the pet shop where my brother worked. This is the morph I had....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MarcNem (Dec 13, 2008)

This list really brings back memories. To think I've been keeping PDF's for over 15 years. As I go thru all my old frog stuff I found price list from Glades Herps that had WC Histos, Pumilio and Auratus for $25 and tricolor for $15. I bought many of them, just to see them die shortly after they arrived. I had a friend that worked at a vet that gave me liquid panicure and told me to put a drop on their backs once a day. I don't know if it worked or not. She kept geckos. I get slightly depressed when I think of all the frogs that perished at my inexperienced hands. If it wasn't for Chuck news letter I don't know what I would have done. The information contained therein was great. Thanks Chuck.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

As I sit here going over these post`s I actually can`t believe that these frog`s were at one time available in pet store`s!!!
Esp. painful here in Connecticut because NO dart frog`s are available(legally anyway)

John


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

When i first got into the hobby i rememeber those "white footed histos" were known as Koi morph.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

My guess is that even if the hobby were to get healthy animals here in the US, you still aren't going to have the success of pumilio. There will be those that produce some animals but I don't see them being as productive as say bastimentos. There are plenty of healthy animals in the US and there are those that produce them on a regular basis, just not in the numbers that you find with pumilio. Hopefully I am wrong and someone breeds them like bastis. It could be that just like pumilio there is a morph of histrionicus that is very productive in captivity, a "basti" if you will, of the histrionicus group. It would be nice to have at least one morph "established" in the US.


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

I hope my post was not misconstrued. My point was to say that things, such as available information on quarantine, testing , disease, and other not so tried before husbandry practises, are now either more in practise or more readily understood than only a very few short years ago. Just read back a few years in out own annals here and read about the thoughts on breeding certain pums. Things have changed for the better in many cases is all. There are plenty of histos here at this time. But there are also disproportionate amounts of males (huge in some people's cases), shipments by brokers who are less than honest , shipping known diseased animals, and many other shenanigans that have tipped the breeding of histos and slyvaticus toward a negative handicap.
I very much also doubt they will breed like bastis any time soon. But I think there will be many more here and healthy than there were a few short years ago.

Rich




rmelancon said:


> My guess is that even if the hobby were to get healthy animals here in the US, you still aren't going to have the success of pumilio. There will be those that produce some animals but I don't see them being as productive as say bastimentos. There are plenty of healthy animals in the US and there are those that produce them on a regular basis, just not in the numbers that you find with pumilio. Hopefully I am wrong and someone breeds them like bastis. It could be that just like pumilio there is a morph of histrionicus that is very productive in captivity, a "basti" if you will, of the histrionicus group. It would be nice to have at least one morph "established" in the US.


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## swirlygig (Dec 4, 2008)

Awww man, what a shame...these are absolutely gorgeous creatures that nature has to share...well maybe someday...


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Rich Frye said:


> I hope my post was not misconstrued. My point was to say that things, such as available information on quarantine, testing , disease, and other not so tried before husbandry practises, are now either more in practise or more readily understood than only a very few short years ago. Just read back a few years in out own annals here and read about the thoughts on breeding certain pums. Things have changed for the better in many cases is all. There are plenty of histos here at this time. But there are also disproportionate amounts of males (huge in some people's cases), shipments by brokers who are less than honest , shipping known diseased animals, and many other shenanigans that have tipped the breeding of histos and slyvaticus toward a negative handicap.
> I very much also doubt they will breed like bastis any time soon. But I think there will be many more here and healthy than there were a few short years ago.
> 
> Rich


I agree we are certainly more knowlegeable in many areas than we were many years ago when histrionicus were readily available. I'm just not sure that even with all our newfound knowledge that the success with these guys will increase dramatically. Maybe I'm just being a pessimist but I know of really healthy animals in captivity for many many years and I can count the surviving offspring on one hand. I really hope you and others will prove me wrong on this and will gladly eat my words when 5 years from now a steady stream of CB histrionicus or sylvaticus is showing up in the classifieds. In any case good luck with them.


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

rmelancon said:


> I agree we are certainly more knowlegeable in many areas than we were many years ago when histrionicus were readily available. I'm just not sure that even with all our newfound knowledge that the success with these guys will increase dramatically. Maybe I'm just being a pessimist but I know of really healthy animals in captivity for many many years and I can count the surviving offspring on one hand. I really hope you and others will prove me wrong on this and will gladly eat my words when 5 years from now a steady stream of CB histrionicus or sylvaticus is showing up in the classifieds. In any case good luck with them.


 
Thanks , I hope we all get them going. I doubt a torrent of Kingsnake adds with Kois hoppin' around , but more than now would be good.
On a side note. One of the things I learned while observing necropsies with my brother. A number of times he would do necropsies on what had been totally asymptomatic frogs. But had sex organs which were extremely underdeveloped or outright ruined. Also found that frogs that looked and acted fine, but died and were found to have very high loads of known bad stuff such as hookworm, tapeworm, lungworm , coccidia, and the like also were severely effected in the sex organs. I guess what I am trying to say is that what looks like a perfectly healthy frogs that is long lived and asymptomatic can actually have sex organs not able to produce as a really healthy frog. I know I used to hear "If it ain't broke, don't fix it " to justify not testing back not so long ago. I'm glad that attitude is changing because I belive it is helping us to, understand the true health state of our frogs. And some of the reason why some breed better than others.

Rich


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)




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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

Is that a little whitefoot I'm seeing in the right corner?

Is that yours? If yes, congratz!

Grtz,
Thomas


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

This is tied with R. benedicta as my favorite PDF. I've also seen this morph labeled "Sylvatica Narina" here: www.DartFrog.tk - Oophaga histrionica

My only solace is that the people that still have these frogs are obviously dedicated to their conservation. If they ever do make a rebound in population, hopefully by that time I will have become experienced enough to have the pleasure of keeping them myself.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

flyingkip said:


> Is that a little whitefoot I'm seeing in the right corner?
> 
> Is that yours? If yes, congratz!
> 
> ...


Yes that is the male, will try and get some better shots soon.


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## flyingkip (Jan 9, 2005)

Marinarawr said:


> This is tied with R. benedicta as my favorite PDF. I've also seen this morph labeled "Sylvatica Narina" here: www.DartFrog.tk - Oophaga histrionica



I'm pretty sure that Sylvatica 'Nirana' is another morph of the sylvaticus/histrionicus group.

These are Whitefoot Histrionicus. THe others are koi. They are very different from what I've been told.


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

flyingkip said:


> I'm pretty sure that Sylvatica 'Nirana' is another morph of the sylvaticus/histrionicus group.
> 
> These are Whitefoot Histrionicus. THe others are koi. They are very different from what I've been told.


Ok . I wasn't claiming anyone was wrong... Just posting another site that has some photos and info on them. The photo may just be mislabeled. Sorry for the confusion!


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## kingnicky101 (Feb 20, 2009)

It would really be nice to get some of those ''Narinas" breeding in the U.S.


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