# Dartboards 100 gallon Display tank. Sparing no expense.



## dartboard

I am beginning my 100 gallon Exo Terra display tank. It is 36x18x36 inches. I'm going to try and make it my ultimate piece. It is going to be based as much as possible on Revolutions Exo terra tank. The main difference being that my tank is an extra foot taller than his. 

Here is the beginning. I have a ton of cork wood that will be a mosaic wall. 































































The screen is siliconed to the front of the tank. It is about 4 inches wide. Should provide good ventilation. 

Here is what I will be modeling it after:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...57-revolutions-36x18x24-exo-terra-update.html


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## Rhac

Subd! 

1.2.0.3 Crested Geckos 
1.0 Leachianus
2.0 Gargoyle Gecko


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## dartboard

Thanks Rhac, I'm watching your huge build as well!


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## rigel10

I think there are the basics to set up a very nice big viv!


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## Soldier17

I can't wait to see the progression of this build. Do you already know what frogs (or other animal) are going in there?


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## JMims

I've always wanted to do a big display like this. I can't wait to see how this looks finished!


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## Polypodium

Good luck with this build. I checked out the link to your inspiration and this should be a great predecessor. 

I'll be following this project.


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## dartboard

Soldier17 said:


> I can't wait to see the progression of this build. Do you already know what frogs (or other animal) are going in there?


Not sure yet. I want a species that can utilize the whole tank. We'll see.


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## dartboard

I have obtained a couple more pieces of the puzzle. 

Here is a mist kind system. It's the ultimate $199 one which is probably overkill for one tank, but if this tank is ever around my others in the future I will be happy I have it. I also think I will buy 2 quad nozzles. That way I will just drill 2 holes and have 8 sprayers. Should be plenty of coverage










I also picked up some slate rock for the bottom middle area. This is where the main water dripping will fall down on. Also, I will position the rock so it can be removed easily. This will make a good place to store the pump underneath to supply the waterfall areas










I went to Lowes to buy glass for the top ceiling and they don't have anything thicker than 2.5mm. I'm wanting to do something closer to 1/4 inch. I think I'm going to have to order from an actual glass shop in town.


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## kitcolebay

Looks like a good start! Subscribed and watching! 

-Chris


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## dartboard

Couple more updates. I have put screen on the front vent to try and make it as fly proof as possible. Here's a shot of it:










Also, I have a question I hope to get some advice from you photography people. I am trying to utilize the rule of thirds when creating the landscape and I don't know if I should cut in thirds from the very bottom, or just the door area? I took a pic with lines to show what I'm talking about. The red lines are measured from the very bottom, the blue lines from the door area. Which ones should I use?










Maybe I'll just go somewhere in between them.


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## pooky125

If you're going to use the rule of thirds, I would think, neither. I would go from the level of the soil at the lowest point, personally. Otherwise, I would look into the golden rule, less math, less options.


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## dartboard

So some more updates. I started with testing the bottom for water leaks. It looks like NO leaks! 










I started laying the false bottom. I also laid the 3 pillars that will hold the main slate slab. Behind the slab will be a box where the pump will go that will be assessable after it's all completed in case of needed repairs. 




























And last of all, the thing I am most excited about. My lights came!!! These are the lights mistking Marty sells. These are so sweet. I bought 2 but depending on coverage I may need to add 1 more.


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## IROCthisZ28

I love seeing huge builds like this!!! My next viv I was going to use slate as well so I am very interested in seeing where this goes


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## ndame88

dartboard said:


> So some more updates. I started with testing the bottom for water leaks. It looks like NO leaks!
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> And last of all, the thing I am most excited about. My lights came!!! These are the lights mistking Marty sells. These are so sweet. I bought 2 but depending on coverage I may need to add 1 more.


Holy cow you were not lying about no expense, those lights are not cheap, really interested on how they look and perform.


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## Dendro Dave

I think with rule of thirds on something like this you'd wanna start from the most visible part of the vivarium landscape, and consider the false bottom/pond area like a partial picture frame. 

I think that cross brace or whatever that makes a hard black line through your view will kinda throw off the effect of the rule of 3rds otherwise, plus even when you add in that pond area that is a small enough % of your total composition that I think you'll be in the ball park of the rule close enough that it will still come together nicely. 

It's interesting that you're trying to apply that to a vivarium so directly. I use some knowledge of composition, and my gut/artist eye when doing the landscaping but I can't say I've ever drawn a grid on the glass... I like it 


BTW: That rock you have over the pond, reminds me of a 75 I did with the top of a large exoterra waterfall stratling the pond, and a piece of drift wood to hide the bottom where it would have normally joined to the main pool. Letting the pump just hang down in the water column and not actually on the bottom, helped that pump to never clog and run forever since most crap sinks or floats. You could try something like that in this build if you were so inclined. 
Here is the old thread if you wanna take a look...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/36787-evolution-75-gallon.html

This thread may be useful to for achieving a really clean look and maybe other stuff...
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...c-filter-foam-fans-vents-ff-lids-etc-etc.html

I'm envious of the Marty lights... 2 no less... GRR... I want 1


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## eos

Subscribed!


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## dartboard

Dendro Dave said:


> I think with rule of thirds on something like this you'd wanna start from the most visible part of the vivarium landscape, and consider the false bottom/pond area like a partial picture frame.
> 
> I think that cross brace or whatever that makes a hard black line through your view will kinda throw off the effect of the rule of 3rds otherwise, plus even when you add in that pond area that is a small enough % of your total composition that I think you'll be in the ball park of the rule close enough that it will still come together nicely.
> 
> It's interesting that you're trying to apply that to a vivarium so directly. I use some knowledge of composition, and my gut/artist eye when doing the landscaping but I can't say I've ever drawn a grid on the glass... I like it


Yea I agree with you. I know it wont be exact locations, but I will try to balance it on those lines. I agree to ignore below the vent when figuring the thirds.



Dendro Dave said:


> BTW: That rock you have over the pond, reminds me of a 75 I did with the top of a large exoterra waterfall stratling the pond, and a piece of drift wood to hide the bottom where it would have normally joined to the main pool. Letting the pump just hang down in the water column and not actually on the bottom, helped that pump to never clog and run forever since most crap sinks or floats. You could try something like that in this build if you were so inclined.
> Here is the old thread if you wanna take a look...
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/36787-evolution-75-gallon.html


This is a huge help, thank you. I will build some kind of waterproof barrier on the lower inch or so of the box... that way it should keep larger stuff from entering



Dendro Dave said:


> This thread may be useful to for achieving a really clean look and maybe other stuff...
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...c-filter-foam-fans-vents-ff-lids-etc-etc.html
> 
> I'm envious of the Marty lights... 2 no less... GRR... I want 1


I think I will use that filter foam as well. great ideas Dave

I am sure you dont remember this, but in a previous thread I was asking what the slimmest LEDs were on the market and you actually mentioned these Marty lights as sweet lights... so you are to blame for me falling in love with them.


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## Dale D

Looks like its going to be a nice viv. 
I'm trying out one of those LED light units over part of one of my tanks.
I'm really happy with it and have ordered another one from Marty.
They produce a lot of light, so I don't think you will need 3 over a 36" tank.
Although Marty has a 2 over his 24" tank.
I'm hoping I won't need one per 12" because I want to use them on my 72" tank.


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## dartboard

Dale D said:


> Looks like its going to be a nice viv.
> I'm trying out one of those LED light units over part of one of my tanks.
> I'm really happy with it and have ordered another one from Marty.
> They produce a lot of light, so I don't think you will need 3 over a 36" tank.
> Although Marty has a 2 over his 24" tank.
> I'm hoping I won't need one per 12" because I want to use them on my 72" tank.


 Yea, the coolest thing about them is the cycle through dawn, sunrise, daytime, sunset, nighttime. I think if it turns out I need more light, I will just get some cheaper LEDs to supplement the light during the full day time mode. That way I can have all the cool effect from the light during the other cycles.


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## dartboard

Update: pump

So I am trying to figure out exactly how I want to do the pump to have the water coming down the background. Here is the current idea I am flirting with

I went to home depot and got one of their 8 port manifolds. I then hooked up tubing to it, and hooked this to the pump. I got a pretty strong pump so it is coming out well even at 4 feet. 




























I have flow adjust on the manifold but it is of course limited in flow by how little the sprinkler tubing I am using is. with 8 tubes it would give me great ability to customize the flow.... I could double or triple up a couple areas where I want more flow. The actual pump has an overall flow adjust so the as far as adjusting I could get the exact flow I wanted. And it would all be accessible if ever the pump fails.

My biggest concern with this setup is with the small sprinkler tubing and using the manifold, I imagine the possibility of clogging could be pretty high. I will try hard to screen the box but we will see how clean I can keep it.


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## kitcolebay

As far as the pump, I tried doing the same thing with my first viv (150 gallon). I had bought the 8-port with the black tubing and Rainbird misting nozzles. Unfortunately, it didn't work out as well as I wanted in the long run. The pump was a little loud and nozzles/lines clogged up. Worked great in the garage and during trial runs. Hopefully you'll have much better luck. I would suggest not using tap water for it. Definitely RO water to ensure that nothing will clog up the lines/ports.

-Chris


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## Dendro Dave

dartboard said:


> Yea I agree with you. I know it wont be exact locations, but I will try to balance it on those lines. I agree to ignore below the vent when figuring the thirds.
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> This is a huge help, thank you. I will build some kind of waterproof barrier on the lower inch or so of the box... that way it should keep larger stuff from entering
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> I think I will use that filter foam as well. great ideas Dave
> 
> I am sure you dont remember this, but in a previous thread I was asking what the slimmest LEDs were on the market and you actually mentioned these Marty lights as sweet lights... so you are to blame for me falling in love with them.


Rad, my pleasure. Looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Be sure to let Marty know I sold some lights for him


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## Dendro Dave

dartboard said:


> Update: pump
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> So I am trying to figure out exactly how I want to do the pump to have the water coming down the background. Here is the current idea I am flirting with
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> I went to home depot and got one of their 8 port manifolds. I then hooked up tubing to it, and hooked this to the pump. I got a pretty strong pump so it is coming out well even at 4 feet.
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> I have flow adjust on the manifold but it is of course limited in flow by how little the sprinkler tubing I am using is. with 8 tubes it would give me great ability to customize the flow.... I could double or triple up a couple areas where I want more flow. The actual pump has an overall flow adjust so the as far as adjusting I could get the exact flow I wanted. And it would all be accessible if ever the pump fails.
> 
> My biggest concern with this setup is with the small sprinkler tubing and using the manifold, I imagine the possibility of clogging could be pretty high. I will try hard to screen the box but we will see how clean I can keep it.


Have you considered a refugium or, reservoir outside the tank with a filter in it to clean the water that goes through the manifold/drip lines to lessen chance of clogging? You'd need to drill the tank for overflow or very carefully time some kinda pump like a toms lifting pump to remove excess water. 

If that mainfold and lines don't work for you, you could try kinda building you own. I was thinking something like a box/bowl that the water gets pumped into but then there are holes drilled in the bottom of the bowl with wider diameter lines siliconed in there, and then between the water pressure and gravity the water goes down the lines back into the viv. Might put some mech over the ends of the lines so small frogs and bugs can't get up there, but I was thinking centimeter or so diameter lines. You'd need pretty big chunks of crap to clog that.

You could make up some kinda pre-filter also that took out particulate matter before it reached the manifold.


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## BrokenArrow13

Dang, if that water feature comes together as planned, it will be amazing, subscribed!


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## dartboard

Drilled some holes today. I drilled a large hole in the bottom of my tank that will have 2 functions. It will be an assess hole to run my humidifier/fog machine as well as a hole to send the cord of my pump down to the plugs in the stand below. 

I then drilled 3 holes in my top glass for the mist king system. Lol, it took longer for me to drill the one hole in the tank bottom than all 3 holes on the top glass. The reason was I was so nervous about cracking the exoterra so I went really slow. The top pane I wasn't as worried since it's easily replaced. So I applied more pressure and it went fast. Probably 1 minute per hole (1/4 inch glass)


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## dartboard

Couple quick photos. Mistking has been assembled. I have a quad in the middle and a double on each side. 8 nozzles will hopefully give me plenty of coverage.










ALso I have greatstuffed around the edges of the false bottom. this way water can only get to the pump if it is above 2 inches. Hopefully this helps filter out some more of the water before reaching the pump.



















As far as the pump, I have changed it up a little bit. I found some larger tubes. Those quick connect pipes that mistking uses (1/4") also come in 3/8" and 1/2". I have purchased a larger manifold that has 3 ports, but they are all 1/2" ports. Then I ordered 3 quick connect ball valves. This will all be hidden in the back and fully accessible. I think the larger volume tubes will make it so I lower the risk of clogging the pipes. We will see.


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## mike12348

Looks nice so far. I can't wait to see how it turns out.


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## lookitsadam

Really interested in seeing how this turns out!

It might just inspire me to start ANOTHER viv


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## dartboard

well i decided to change up the water portion just a little bit. I am still doing a manifold, but just with 3 hoses that are much larger that connect into adjustable turn valves to control flow through each one. This should hopefully make it a lot less likely that there would be a blockage in the pipes.










You can see here the manifold and the valves. Also, there is a box in the background. This is where I will be able to assess all of this stuff even after everything is built. I have glued magnets onto this box and then I have a door that has a bunch of dirt on it with magnets as well. This will camouflage the area pretty well.










Also I have began layering the background with cork bark I have started in the right side but before I get too high I will build up the left side as well


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## Dendro Dave

Needs blue flowers... There is one plant package left!


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## emallard25

looking good...excited to see the finish.


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## dartboard

Alright, well I decided to post a picture to give a better idea of some of the look I am going for. I fell like you'll notice some big changes in the next few build posts. 

Exoterra dart frog build - YouTube


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## dartboard

Just a couple more pics of today's additions. I'm getting closer to having the right side hardscaped. 




















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## dartboard

Just some more updates to show wood placement. I have realized that I need to get the stand built so I can transfer this thing into the house. This sucker is getting heavy. 
























































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## tomer.baron

really, really, really, really awesome, subscribed. keep it up


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## Dale D

It looks great now, but it is going to look fantastic once it is planted. 

I like the trap door at the back idea.


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## Rhac

Awesome !! Love the driftwood placement!!


--_--


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## dartboard

Update Time!!

I am getting very close to being finished with the hardscape. I have all the wood placed, and this evening I finished all the great stuff foam. So now all I have left for hardscape is putting silicone and peatmoss over the greatstuff areas and then rocks in the front water area. Also a few minor tweaks.

Once I have the hardscape finished I will begin building the stand. I have a lot of left over cork so I am thinking of ways to integrate the cork board into the stand. I will get back to you on that I plan to do. Anyway here are 3 pictures that show a little bit of what I have been up to:

The first is the hardscape as it looked earlier today. I have foamed and carved a little bit more. THe angle isnt the best but when I get it finished I will light it up and get some good pics from all the angles.










This next picture is what it looks like from the back. I love how ugly they end up looking on the other side. You can see the back box I have as well as where there is a drilled bulkhead for the fog/humidifier that I will have running up from the stand. Also you can see the long pathway for the plug for the pump.










I am now done with the expandable foam. Here are all my cans that I ended up using. I think 9 in total. At 12ish dollars a pop you can see how I ended up spending way more than anticipating on foam. I know it is a lot cheaper to get the beige foam but it is such a pain trying to hide that stuff with silicone. The black makes it so much easier. Also, just as a heads up... the greatstuff brand seemed to have the most in it and higher quality... just didnt have an ace hardware close to me to buy it at. The others were from home depot and lowes.


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## Nismo95

i am officially jealous.. i wish I took more time and kept our 100 gallon exo... I would love to have that in my living room as a palu.. no frogs.. just a couple fish and some amazing plants


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## dartboard

Nismo95 said:


> i am officially jealous.. i wish I took more time and kept our 100 gallon exo... I would love to have that in my living room as a palu.. no frogs.. just a couple fish and some amazing plants


Yea, I love the frogs, but this building stuff is really fun.


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## rigel10

Hardscape is majestic! Too bad that here it is impossible to find black foam, only white or yellow. 
For the back, you can use black contact paper: I always use this for my viv (even if nobody sees them on the back, lol!).


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## dartboard

rigel10 said:


> Hardscape is majestic! Too bad that here it is impossible to find black foam, only white or yellow.
> For the back, you can use black contact paper: I always use this for my viv (even if nobody sees them on the back, lol!).


Yea I was just looking at the tank this morning. On the sides I had initially tried to darken them from inside with rock/foam/wood/silicone. But even so the sides look patchy and uneven, so I think I will do the black contact paper on the sides where I have stuff as well.


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## dartboard

So I am for all intents and purposes done with the hardscape. I will obviously add the gravel, abg soil, leaf litter, sphagnum and what not. Before I add any moss/plants, I am going to next build the stand and get enough people to help me carry it into the house. Once on the stand I'll start adding water and plants. Enjoy! 

































































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## KarmaPolice

This build looks fantastic. I am really enjoying the hardscape so far with the cork and wood yo picked out. I hope you also take your time with the plants and design it the way you want. Good luck, already subscribed.


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## ndame88

Very nice, mixing cork and hard most times ends up looking out of place for lack of a better word, you did a great job, looks very natural.


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## diggenem

That's one epic background. Your build is going to look nice!!!!

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## Dale D

The background looks great. 
Looks like the 2 LED lights from Marty should be enough.


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## dartboard

Dale D said:


> The background looks great.
> Looks like the 2 LED lights from Marty should be enough.


I like the coverage. There are a couple spots that are a little dark that I may want to highlight with spot LEDs. I think I'll start with the mosses first and see what kind of growth I get with it. The stuff that needs higher light will be farther up in the tank anyway.


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## Phyllobates

Nice background! That's one of the better hardscapes I think I've seen. Plant that baby up!


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## rioth

Very nice build indeed. Can`t wait to see the end result. Looks amazing.

What frogs will you house in that beauty?


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## 30994

Amazing placement and design!!


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## skanderson

every time i look at this thread im amazed by how cool the background looks. dont overplant it so we can keep appreciating the build.


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## dartboard

rioth said:


> Very nice build indeed. Can`t wait to see the end result. Looks amazing.
> 
> What frogs will you house in that beauty?


I built it initially thinking a small group of Leucs. That's probably still what I'll go with, I think they would best utilize the height out of any of the larger frogs.


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## dartboard

skanderson said:


> every time i look at this thread im amazed by how cool the background looks. dont overplant it so we can keep appreciating the build.


I feel the same way as you. I read and view all these amazing builds and fall in love with their backgrounds, then a year later on an update photo it's so overgrown you can't even tell there's a background. 

I plan on planting it with lots of moss and some pretty bromeliads, but I'll always want to have a good view of the landscape as well!


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## dartboard

Okay so I got some work done on the stand. The frame of it is a basic 2x4 stand, but I'm trying to do some unique things with it that I haven't seen before. I initially bought these trim wood pieces that are to curvy type you see at the top of the stand. I thought it was going to look amazon/Aztec-ish. It seems to me to look more silly than anything. So I am going to replace the trim with the leaf pattern one you seen there in the picture. 

Now her is the cool part. The stand won't have a door. There is a box type picture frame thing that will be full of cork wood that will attach to the stand by mAgnets and cover the front opening. I posted a pic of the wood to kind of show where it will go. So that's what I'm trying, is to have coke wood as part of the stand as well. A picture is worth a thousand words so just give me some time to show you what I mean. I think I will stain the stand dark and then have the lighter cork wood as part of it as well. I'll keep you updated.


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## dartboard

Well based on the fact that I didn't get any replies on the stand, I am interpreting that as most aren't too keen on my proposed customizations. I'll just have to make believers out of you guys I guess. 

Here are 2 recent pictures. I still need to sand, stain, and feel in some holes around the bark, but you get the overall idea. The front bark area is a magnetized door that comes out. So no hinges or swinging doors. Enjoy!


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## jimmy rustles

I love The Patterns you did, That Looks ace, i am Not sure about The Bark Wood Doors tho, they dont seem to fit into The overall picture IMO


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## dartboard

jimmy rustles said:


> I love The Patterns you did, That Looks ace, i am Not sure about The Bark Wood Doors tho, they dont seem to fit into The overall picture IMO
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm just going to have to make a believer out of you Jimmy. Give me time.


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## epiphytes etc.

I think the cork looks good. It will be even better once you get that thing stained.


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## simonphelps

The way you're building this thing it looks like you might even have some money to share for my build.


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## Dendro Dave

If you wanted to get really fancy you could build those side panels as living walls and put lights around the base of the tank to point down on the plant walls, with an internal watering system.


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## dartboard

Well I really really tried to make the cork bark work, but I just couldn't get it to look right. When I stained the stand it just looked like I forgot to stain the cork. 

So I decided to try and do something really cool. Instead of the cork I replaced it with pine siding panels that were stained a lighter color. Then my favorite part is I inserted recessed lighting that I think adds an awesome touch to it. 

I still need to apply the polyurethane but once that's done it comes inside and the tank is put on it and then we begin planting! Enjoy!

Here it was with the cork










Cork gone with recessed lighting NOT on. 




























Here it is with garage lights off but recessed lights ON






































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## Dale D

I think it looked good with the cork.
Either way it looks nice.


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## simonphelps

Wow I would put that cork back on that looked better IMO


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## Nismo95

both cool... but I agree.. that cork looked fantastic! But, you are the one looking at it every day, so if you were not happy.. gotta do what you like best!


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## dartboard

Lol, let's put it this way, the Mrs. Was not thrilled with the cork look. Either way there is no way in the world I'm changing it again. That took way way too much time. 


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## xTimx

whaaaat ......omg that cork looked soooo amazing in there! it made you look like an eco-mentalist sorta hahaha. start over dang it! put that cork in there!  jk
the lights look good too honestly hehehe


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## Dendro Dave

I kinda liked the cork too, but you may have been better off going with cork panels that have the raw cork bark on the front but are cut in perfect rectangles or squares with flat backs. 

What you did looks good too, especially with the lights


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## rioth

Both look good mate, although I too lean more towards the cork.

Love the details with the leaves and everything. Masterpiece!

Lights are an inspiration to my own build. Thanks


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## showjet95

Awesome tank build! The hardscape is amazing! BUT, that cork in the stand was much much nicer looking IMO and so unique.


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## diggenem

I like the look both ways but the lighting effect is very nice. I can't wait to see this completed!

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## IROCthisZ28

God this is gorgeous


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## dartboard

Update time. I have the tank inside the house on the stand. It was surprisingly lighter than I was anticipating. Today I will add water and get the waterfalls going. Also the mist king will begin its cycle today. Next I will add tons of moss. I am making purchases of moss now. Let me know if you have a favorite kind I should add. In the mean time, enjoy the pics. 










































































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## epiphytes etc.

That thing is sick! I wish I had your hardscape skills.


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## Giga

I really like the tunnel to the back give nice depth


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## rigel10

The hardscape is epic! It looks like a Dutch viv. What frogs will go in it?


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## frogface

This is going to be one of those tanks that we want to move into.


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## dartboard

epiphytes etc. said:


> That thing is sick! I wish I had your hardscape skills.


I'm sure you do have just as good of skills as me. I think the biggest secret is just having some motivational examples to use as guidance. And then the second thing is to go slow and take your time.


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## dartboard

Giga said:


> I really like the tunnel to the back give nice depth


It wasn't initially planned to have that area. As I was building up the hardscape, there formed a natural area there and I realized that I could keep it and have a really cool look. So it stayed.


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## FroggyKnight

That hardscape is absolutely gorgeous! This just became one of the most inspiring builds on my 'list' 

I love the dimension that the background gives the tank, very unique


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## dartboard

So I got the water in and started adjusting the fountains to get the flow i want. I took a video of the fountains with the middle one running way too strong. But at least you'll get a feel of where they're coming from. 

I'll put sphagnum down in places to soften the splash. Here is the link to the video:

Exo terra fountains - YouTube


----------



## simonphelps

Your tank is looking good! Kinda intimidating to set up my tank at the same time or do anything similar...but I think the cork bark that you were going to put on the side of your stand was awesome and I'm thinking about attempting to steal your idea if that's ok...? My only concern is it will look horrible and do no justice.

Anyway how did you plan on fastening the cork to the side? (gorilla glue) And how did you plan on filling the small spaces the cork didn't fill. Just trying to get some ideas.


----------



## ecichlid

Amazing job. 9.9 out of 10. The .1 deduction (in my meaningless book) is the bottom drop where the water comes off haphazardly. The water does not have the smooth appearance. The water just doesn't flow off. Perhaps you could carve it a little? I don't know if that makes any sense at all.


----------



## dartboard

simonphelps said:


> Your tank is looking good! Kinda intimidating to set up my tank at the same time or do anything similar...but I think the cork bark that you were going to put on the side of your stand was awesome and I'm thinking about attempting to steal your idea if that's ok...? My only concern is it will look horrible and do no justice.
> 
> Anyway how did you plan on fastening the cork to the side? (gorilla glue) And how did you plan on filling the small spaces the cork didn't fill. Just trying to get some ideas.


I took a picture to show what I had planned. I built a picture frame out of 1x2 boards. Then I put a board that has all those hole in it as a backing. Then I put the cork pieces on that. Then I screwed the cork onto the board by screwing from the back into the cork but making sure the screws weren't long enough to poke through the cork. Then I filled the cracks with great stuff foam just like I would in the viv. I was then going to silicone peat or something else to those small crack areas. Hope all that makes sense











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dartboard

ecichlid said:


> Amazing job. 9.9 out of 10. The .1 deduction (in my meaningless book) is the bottom drop where the water comes off haphazardly. The water does not have the smooth appearance. The water just doesn't flow off. Perhaps you could carve it a little? I don't know if that makes any sense at all.


I agree with you that some things need to be corrected down there. I took a couple more pictures of the water area. Eventually there will be a lot of moss in the tradition area from water to land, but I'm still not 100% sure what I'll do down there. 




















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oddlot

Wow dude all I can say is this has turned out amazing so far!I read this thread when you first started it and haven't checked back in until now,and it was a nice surprise to see how well it has come along.I'm subscribed now so I won't miss more progress.I look forward to see how this project turns out after it's planted out and then when it grows in a little bit.Nice job!


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## btu83

I like it. Really unique design.


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## tzen

I think you have nailed the hardscape. 
Bring on the plants!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Giga

Looks great but the water kinda seems like a hazard for frogs no?


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## dartboard

oddlot said:


> Wow dude all I can say is this has turned out amazing so far!I read this thread when you first started it and haven't checked back in until now,and it was a nice surprise to see how well it has come along.I'm subscribed now so I won't miss more progress.I look forward to see how this project turns out after it's planted out and then when it grows in a little bit.Nice job!


Thanks man! Ive made a few initial orders of plants that will be coming in the next few days so the planting phase has officially began!


----------



## dartboard

Giga said:


> Looks great but the water kinda seems like a hazard for frogs no?


From what I understand as long as there is land really close you are okay. Ive seen many large scale vivs with quite a bit of water. The issue with mine might be the 4" depth. I plan on adding some freshwater planting medium to the bottom that will make the water more shallow, and then there will be freshwater plants growing as well that should do good to make it not just one large pool.


----------



## Dale D

That's one of the best backgrounds I have ever seen. 
It's almost a shame to have to plant the tank and cover it up in any way.


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## Giga

dartboard said:


> From what I understand as long as there is land really close you are okay. Ive seen many large scale vivs with quite a bit of water. The issue with mine might be the 4" depth. I plan on adding some freshwater planting medium to the bottom that will make the water more shallow, and then there will be freshwater plants growing as well that should do good to make it not just one large pool.


hmm might have to add some water to my drop off tank!


----------



## dartboard

Update time: initial planting. 
I recieved my first couple orders of plants and I have started placing them. Before,the end I'll have about 5 different kinds of moss spread out wherever. Hopefully through time they will all thrive at different parts of the viv. Also my initial broms have been placed. I am really hoping I will be able to keep the color that is on some of these broms. 

I also built a canopy that matches the stand. 

I also filled in some of the water with some freshwater planting medium. This will make a nice place for mosses and aquatic plants to grow. 

I have some more moss coming and then I am going to hold off planting anymore until I can get as much moss established as possible. Enjoy the pics.


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## Peakone

Magnificent! Really well done, congrats.
Its so inspirational giving me some nice ideas about future projects
Sent from my GT-S6310 using Tapatalk 2


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## btu83

looks good. can you post pics of the canopy, it's blueprints, design? I like it.


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## rigel10

Perfect! I love how you've arranged the bromeliads and the overall layout. What about frogs?


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## Giga

What brom is that purple one?


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## dartboard

btu83 said:


> looks good. can you post pics of the canopy, it's blueprints, design? I like it.


I'll post a couple pics of it so you can see. It's a pretty simple design.


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## dartboard

Giga said:


> What brom is that purple one?


Neoregelia "Grenada" from bluepumilio.com


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## Dlanigan

Wow that's really well done. Thanks for the inspiration. I hope my tank looks 1/16th of what that looks like and I'll be happy.


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## dartboard

rigel10 said:


> Perfect! I love how you've arranged the bromeliads and the overall layout. What about frogs?


Still not 100% sure of which frogs. It's hard to spend this much time on something and then narrow down which guys get it. It will be a little while before frogs though... I want all the plants to get established.


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## JonRich

Amazing!! ...


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## rigel10

Any idea (about frogs)? I'm curious because I do not have idea about what frogs to put in a viv like this. I love thumbnails and pums, but this enclosure is huge!


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## dclarke2

Love this tank, What kind of moss did you get and from where?


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## tzen

Looks great, like it is already grown in. 
Which means that when it does start growing you are gonna need to do some pruning sooner instead of later, but oh well. It looks great.


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## dartboard

dclarke2 said:


> Love this tank, What kind of moss did you get and from where?


I ordered some live sphagnum from aquabid.com I then ordered some fern moss from bluepumilio and then I have some sheet moss coming from NEHERP. The moss in there now is just the sphagnum and fernmoss. I will add the sheet moss in more of a slurry to many places. Then we will wait and watch it grown in and see where it likes to be. A little later I will add some small slow growing plants to fill in a few places.


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## dartboard

tzen said:


> Looks great, like it is already grown in.
> Which means that when it does start growing you are gonna need to do some pruning sooner instead of later, but oh well. It looks great.


I agree with you. I am planting a lot of moss to see where it sticks. I dont anticipate it staying everywhere I have put it. I wont be adding too many more plants, at least soon, so it wont get terribly crowded. I do want to keep a lot of the background visible.


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## dartboard

Sorry it took so long on the pics of the canopy. Here they are. 





































Here is one of my current frogs. I have a group of 4 red galacts. They may be the guys that end up in the tank but I'm not sure yet. The flash on the camera almost made it look orange so I took one without so you can see the nice red color.


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## dartboard

January Update:

The biggest thing for my tank now is letting it mature. The broms have all changed colors since the initial planting due to where the sit in relation to the light. Some have brilliant color, others have lost a little. They are all spreading out their little anchor root things and many of them have started pupping. 

I made a moss slurry that I have been placing in many different places. It is now growing up nicely and in another month or two should be able to hold up against whatever frogs i put in there. Very fast growing up at the top and still some good growth at the bottom. 

I've started testing the water parameters in the bottom to get an idea on if it would be suitable for a couple little fish. It seems to be okay as long as I do some frequent water changes. There are about 6-7 gallons of water at the bottom so I wouldn't want too many fish. 

In this next month I will start adding a little bit of diversity to the plants. Maybe get some water plants going on the bottom, add a few small slow growing things here and there. 

I've turned down the water so it is a gentle quiet trickle. It's nice because we can still hear the running/dripping water in the house, but the splash is minimal. The moss helps a lot with suppressing the splash. 

The lights were a dawn/early morning setting for these pictures I took. I love the lighting on them. Hope you all enjoy. I think for the next year or so I'll just do a monthly update with pictures. Happy new year everyone.


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## Dale D

I was wondering how your tank was doing. It looks great.
Are you happy with the lights?
A lot of my broms have really coloured up since I put the lights over my tank.
I now have 2 Jungle Hobbies LED units and 2 Finnex 48" LED fixtures over my 72" tank. They have now replaced 324 watts of HO T5.


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## rigel10

Great update! What about frogs?


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## hypostatic

Nice, I like how there is a light gradient in the tank.


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## frogparty

My only critique is that your brom planting is basically in a straight line, and theres very little in the way of staggered plantings to offset that straight line. The one brom youve got above the rest is dead center in the field of view too, Id shift it, or add more to offset it. 

I love your hardscape and water feature. Beautifully done.


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## dartboard

Dale D said:


> I was wondering how your tank was doing. It looks great.
> Are you happy with the lights?
> A lot of my broms have really coloured up since I put the lights over my tank.
> I now have 2 Jungle Hobbies LED units and 2 Finnex 48" LED fixtures over my 72" tank. They have now replaced 324 watts of HO T5.


I love the lights. They are doing a great job. I may add a couple spot lights in the future.


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## dartboard

frogparty said:


> My only critique is that your brom planting is basically in a straight line, and theres very little in the way of staggered plantings to offset that straight line. The one brom youve got above the rest is dead center in the field of view too, Id shift it, or add more to offset it.
> 
> I love your hardscape and water feature. Beautifully done.


Thanks Frogparty. I appreciate you putting to words some of the things I need to work on. This light I took the pictures in makes a very strong contrast from above the plants to the darkness below them. This only magnifies this straight line you are talking about. In full light it doesn't look as direct of a straight line. Overall I am happy with the placement of the two sides of broms, and plan on adding a couple more to those clumps

I agree with you 100% about the top brom. It does need to change. It's one of my least favorite due to its color. It's very high light so I think a more bright red/pink one up there, more off centered would be perfect. I'm either going to buy a couple more or wait for some of these to send off pups and rearrange them up there. 

I really do appreciate the critique. It's my main display tank and the more eyes on it letting me know what they see the better. Thanks!


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## frogparty

Well, you definitely have the broms in the optimal light level. 
Some lower light loving plants below will help offset and draw the eye to the whole tank, not just that mid section. A few above as well and i think it'll look amazing

Your hard scape is absolutely fantastic. I'm a huge fan of the cork bark tubes/panels for creating your ridges, rounded edges etc.


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## frogparty

If you took some of the pups of the smaller broms and mounted them up higher to the cork I think it would both break up that central line, and fill in the upper reaches 

Also, you could add some climbers like Microsorum linguiforme to the lower level and allow it to scramble up toward the light. Great foliage and thumbnail sized frogs love to sit on the leaves and even deposit eggs on them 

A plant climbing from bottom to top would unify all the levels you've got going on


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## eos

Looks freakin fantastic!


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## dartboard

Update: Frogs

I was going to wait until February to update the tank, but I couldn't stand it with my new additions! Frogs have been in for about a week now and they just love the place. Their bellies are staying fat so I am happy that they all seem to be eating and adjusting to their new home. They all came from small growout tanks so I am glad they are getting use to the big new world. I received all these frogs from the wonderful Sally (srrrio). They all seem very happy and are probably about 5 months oow. It is a good variety of Guyana Luecs. There are some that look more banded, some that look more spotted, and then one that is the cool oddball of the lot. We will start with him:

This guy has an interesting story. He may be a recessive regular old chocolate Luec, but it so happened, the parents have never had a chocolate offspring. This particular guy was deposited as a tadpole into some very very dirty water that clay had fallen into. He was the only one that was placed here as it happened over a break when Sally was out of town and didnt get to it right away. It may have sat there for a couple days at most. Anyway, it developed normal and has retained this "bleached" color. I am curious if those with chocolate luecs could comment if this guys looks like theirs. Seems more than a coincidence that the one guy dropped in clay is the one abnormal looking one. Here he is:














































More updated pics of the terrarium. Ive added a couple broms. Also more pics of the other frogs:

































































And probably my favorite picture. I have a 100 gallon tank, and these 5 guys all go to the same spot every night and wedge up here for a good nights sleep:









So there are currently 13 of these guys in here. I know this is way too many. I will be taking some out as the get older/bigger. They all seem to have their little areas right now, but I know as they age I'll make sure tht I have a good ration of males/females and that they arent cramped. For now it is fun to see so many running around.


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## hypostatic

The first thing that came to mind when I saw that leuc was how similar it's pigmentation is to the "golden auratus". Like the golden, places that would be black are a pink/lavender color. See these pics for reference:



















Personally I think your frog is leucistic.

Which makes me wonder about the "golden auratus". They HAVE to be leucistic or something. But would a whole population/morph be leucistic?


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## dartboard

Thanks hypodtatic. Very interesting. I guess a whole population could be leucistic if that gene became very common in the population. Do we know for sure that golden auratus are a population or have the just been selective bred. Have you ever owned a chocolate leuc? My hope is someone who has owned one cam say yea or nay on is this ones looks like theirs

This particular frog is one of the most active/boldest of the group so I am guessing that when the time comes he/she will be pretty high in the pecking order and able to participate in he breeding. I guess we'll see if the gene is passed on. 



hypostatic said:


> The first thing that came to mind when I saw that leuc was how similar it's pigmentation is to the "golden auratus". Like the golden, places that would be black are a pink/lavender color. See these pics for reference:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I think your frog is leucistic.
> 
> Which makes me wonder about the "golden auratus". They HAVE to be leucistic or something. But would a whole population/morph be leucistic?


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## hypostatic

I have leucs but not chocolates. The chocolates I've seen have never been that pinkish; maybe purple or brown, put not pink. I think this video shows what most choc leucs look like






I have a fairly high degree of confidence that the particular animal in question has some sort of leucism.

I'll post a more detailed reply to my thoughts on the golden auratus in a little bit.


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## hypostatic

Ok, so Sean Stewart is the main person dealing with the goldens. He's a pretty reputable guy, and he claims that it is a real morph/population/locale. I don't think Sean would lie about such a thing, but my background in biology has it's questions.

The main question is -- can you have a population of (mostly) leucistic individuals?

In nature leucism is really really rare (rarer than albinism). I think this is because of two reasons: leucism occurs due to a pretty rare mutation, and lucistic individuals have decreased overall fitness (they are more easily noticeable, and therefore easy targets for predation).

Dart frogs, however, WANT to be more easily noticed -- this is why they are brightly colored. So maybe leucism can increase the fitness of dart frogs. But if this were the case, then you would see multiple populations of leucistic dart frogs of different species.

But hey, I decided to boot up the PopG and simulate some populations. And in case your wondering, I used this paper on the frequency of leucism in penguins to estimate that leucism has a frequency of about 1/100,000. I cry for the researcher that counted 100,000 penguins. The red line is the average of the populations.

This is what the simulation looks like when being leucistic is slightly more advantageous than being normal









This is what the simulation looks like when being leucistic is equally advantageous








(if you extended this graph many more generations it would look similar to the first graph)

If leucism was disadvantageous in the simulation it would look like the first graph inverted.

No well known dart frog populations have a high number of leucistic animals, so I would feel pretty confident in saying that leucism isn't more or equally advantageous to dart frogs.

So if the goldens are a naturally occurring morph, i'd imagine that it would pretty much have to be due to a founder effect and genetic drift. the odds are definitely not in the favor of a population establishing or being fixed with leucistic animals though...


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## dartboard

Wow, that is awesome interesting stuff. Even with 2 doctorate degrees that stuff seems way over my head. I am glad there are poeple like you that understand all of it. I wonder if my guy looks more pink based on the camera Im using. As a tadpole it was almost clear. either way, regardless of what it is, it is kind of fun to have some variety in the tank. It will be interesting to see what the offspring look like and what variations there will be.

Is he selling those golden auratus?


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## hypostatic

dartboard said:


> I wonder if my guy looks more pink based on the camera Im using.


I was also wondering if it was a flash or something making it look more pink, but I guess I forgot to ask. Does it look pink just using your eye? lol

And yes, Sean does have them for sale. Here's two recent ads on the classifieds with them on his list:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fr...-sip-ole-marie-blue-trunc-benedicta-more.html
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/fr...-lorenzo-benedicta-fantasticus-much-more.html


----------



## epiphytes etc.

I remember the thread about that guy as a tad. I'm glad he's well and found a good home. Sally, can you drop some more clay in you tad cups, please?


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## hypostatic

epiphytes etc. said:


> I remember the thread about that guy as a tad. I'm glad he's well and found a good home. Sally, can you drop some more clay in you tad cups, please?


Heh, it would be interesting to see if this is what caused the coloring (if it could be repeated), or if it's genetic and doesn't have to do with the clay


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## dartboard

epiphytes etc. said:


> I remember the thread about that guy as a tad. I'm glad he's well and found a good home. Sally, can you drop some more clay in you tad cups, please?


Yea she has a few photos of when he was growing up. I'll post them here for completeness. 



















It will be very interesting to see if I get any of these in the tads they eventually have, and for that matter, if Sally gets anymore of these from her adults.


----------



## dartboard

hypostatic said:


> Heh, it would be interesting to see if this is what caused the coloring (if it could be repeated), or if it's genetic and doesn't have to do with the clay


I hope it is genetic. That was it may be seen again. If the clay did it, it almost reminds me of how they dye those poor chicks around Easter time.


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## srrrio

epiphytes etc. said:


> I remember the thread about that guy as a tad. I'm glad he's well and found a good home. Sally, can you drop some more clay in you tad cups, please?


Yes, there is nothing as nice as seeing your "kids" go off to a great home! I am really looking forward to following their progress in Dave's amazing vivarium. They seem to be like their parents who also like to climb high in the tank to settle in for the night in cracks and ledges of the background. 

As for trying to replicate the little chocolate frog, I am with Dave and hope it is genetic. However just in case, the secret formula will stay a secret ;-)


----------



## dartboard

Update: Additional plants. 

So I have slowly been adding additional plants/vines to the tank and thought I would show some of them off. 

His pic shows how well the moss is doing in the tank. 










The waterfall has some narly slimed stuff growing on it. 










I've been pretty happy with how well the live sphagnum moss is doing. It's growing well in a lot of places










I've got some happy broms starting to flower up










I know some dont like it, but I love the massive root structure that the broms send out










Some weird little guy started growing out of this brom










Probably my favorite brom in the whole tank. The thing just bleeds purple. I am really happy with how the lights have colored up things. It hasn't sent out any offshoots yet but I'm hoping as I would like to have a couple more of these in the tank. Here is a little moss growing on it. 










And a few other vines/plants


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## Nismo95

the last plant pic. is that a begonia thelmae? If i recall thats how its spelled.. BUT, from my experience with it, like most begonia's it does not like being wet. We have some in one of our tanks and the spot that gets hit by misters melts.. but luckily the dryer side of it is flourishing lol.

Also, when do you plan on making a trip to Washington? I am gonna hire you for a hardscape/stand/canopy job! lol. No turning that job offer down either!


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## nish07

Most frogs are aposematic probably for pattern but more so for anything that can see color. I think birds see color fairly decently. I don't know that white would be a huge deterrent. I think your frog would probably not be leucistic but lacking one or more pigment (it's obviously not lacking yellow). The area where it is a lighter brown is not white meaning there is some pigment there.

Moonshine galacs might be leucistic. Mint terribilis are not leucistic but they don't get bothered probably because anything small trying to eat one dies and it becomes learned behavior. I don't know what the consensus is on learned behavior these days amongst all animals but birds probably learn. In the meantime, true leucistic animals have issues with the sun and so while they are interesting if they happen to pop up in nature, they could have a hard time if they rely on UV radiation and light might bother them in general in a viv (blue eyes that leucistic animals usually have do have some pigment but still have sun issues just not as bad as the total lack of pigment in albino red eyes). Cave dwelling creatures don't seem to have that issue obviously.

-Nish

P.S. I just skimmed the post and saw the leucistic comments. Hope it's not too off topic.


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## rigel10

Beautiful pics! I also love the massive root structure of the broms: they have a very natural look.


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## Alexmenke92

Loving this hardscape…truly a work of art! Great job with everything overall!


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## dartboard

Nismo95 said:


> the last plant pic. is that a begonia thelmae? If i recall thats how its spelled.. BUT, from my experience with it, like most begonia's it does not like being wet. We have some in one of our tanks and the spot that gets hit by misters melts.. but luckily the dryer side of it is flourishing lol.
> 
> Also, when do you plan on making a trip to Washington? I am gonna hire you for a hardscape/stand/canopy job! lol. No turning that job offer down either!


I'm not sure what the plant is, but it sure looks like the one you mentioned. So far it has really liked its spot and grown fast. It is lower down where the mister isn't hitting it directly. We'll see how well it does if it ever climbs to the top!


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## dartboard

nish07 said:


> Most frogs are aposematic probably for pattern but more so for anything that can see color. I think birds see color fairly decently. I don't know that white would be a huge deterrent. I think your frog would probably not be leucistic but lacking one or more pigment (it's obviously not lacking yellow). The area where it is a lighter brown is not white meaning there is some pigment there.
> 
> Moonshine galacs might be leucistic. Mint terribilis are not leucistic but they don't get bothered probably because anything small trying to eat one dies and it becomes learned behavior. I don't know what the consensus is on learned behavior these days amongst all animals but birds probably learn. In the meantime, true leucistic animals have issues with the sun and so while they are interesting if they happen to pop up in nature, they could have a hard time if they rely on UV radiation and light might bother them in general in a viv (blue eyes that leucistic animals usually have do have some pigment but still have sun issues just not as bad as the total lack of pigment in albino red eyes). Cave dwelling creatures don't seem to have that issue obviously.
> 
> -Nish
> 
> P.S. I just skimmed the post and saw the leucistic comments. Hope it's not too off topic.


Thanks for the info, this is not off topic at all. I love learning about the different genetics involved and what is out there. Fascinating stuff.


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## Bob1000

This is a beautiful enclosure.. I have learned so much.. Just wondering why you used all that vinyl tubing and expensive manifolds instead of lets say one 3/4" pvc across the top with multiple 1/4" holes drilled in it for a drip wall/waterfall feature, covered in moss or faux rock? Im going that route unless there is a good reason not too..


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## dartboard

Bob1000 said:


> This is a beautiful enclosure.. I have learned so much.. Just wondering why you used all that vinyl tubing and expensive manifolds instead of lets say one 3/4" pvc across the top with multiple 1/4" holes drilled in it for a drip wall/waterfall feature, covered in moss or faux rock? Im going that route unless there is a good reason not too..


The reason i used vinyl and manifolds is twofold. First, I wasn't entirely sure at what height i would have each of my waterfalls, so I thought having vinyl that I could cut at whatever level seemed easy enough. Second, I wanted to connect ball valves so I could adjust the flow rate to each waterfall. This has turned out very ideal. My waterfall on the right was coming out way to fast and had way too much splash, so I was able to reduce the flow rate over there. And it is easily associate if I ever want to change the flows down he road

All that being said, I bet a drip line or PVC style setup like you are describing would work perfectly. There are plenty of ways you could change elevation and flow going that route as well. It's probably a much more efficient and cost effective method than what I did. Good luck with it and let me know how it works.


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## Bob1000

Ill post pictures in the next 3 days I plan on having a sump(55gallons) and a total water volume of around 30 gallons with a filter sock.. Once again beautiful build..


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## dartboard

March update:

Not much has changed as far as new plants. Just mainly all the stuff in there growing more and setting off offshoots. The frogs seem happy, and healthy. Here's a bunch of pictures.


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## carola1155

dartboard said:


> Yea she has a few photos of when he was growing up. I'll post them here for completeness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will be very interesting to see if I get any of these in the tads they eventually have, and for that matter, if Sally gets anymore of these from her adults.


That tad looks just like my chocolate tads did. Unfortunately I recently cleared a bunch of pics off my phone for an update so I don't have any readily available. From what I've heard/seen, all chocolates look like that as tads.


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## Peakone

Really cool set up!
Can you please post a list of the mosses and ferns?

Sorry if you already have, but i didnt find

Sent from my GT-S6310 using Tapatalk 2


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## jrudd013

What are the other plants besids broms do you have on the wall. What did you make your moss mix out of?


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## ryno71

Really like the brom placement and colors. Sweet moss too. Nice job man.


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## papa_mcknight

Did you ever ID the plant growing in your brom? I have the same thing. I let it grow for a while then pulled it last month. The first pic is from 10th June, the second is how it looks today. I quite like the little fella


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## rigel10

It must be quite common if I also had this little plant, which disappeared during last summer - certainly because of the heat.


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## xxmonitorlizardxx

What type of moss is that growing in there?


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## ecichlid

hypostatic said:


> Ok, so Sean Stewart is the main person dealing with the goldens. He's a pretty reputable guy, and he claims that it is a real morph/population/locale. I don't think Sean would lie about such a thing, but my background in biology has it's questions.
> 
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> The main question is -- can you have a population of (mostly) leucistic individuals?
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> In nature leucism is really really rare (rarer than albinism). I think this is because of two reasons: leucism occurs due to a pretty rare mutation, and lucistic individuals have decreased overall fitness (they are more easily noticeable, and therefore easy targets for predation).
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> 
> Dart frogs, however, WANT to be more easily noticed -- this is why they are brightly colored. So maybe leucism can increase the fitness of dart frogs. But if this were the case, then you would see multiple populations of leucistic dart frogs of different species.
> 
> 
> 
> But hey, I decided to boot up the PopG and simulate some populations. And in case your wondering, I used this paper on the frequency of leucism in penguins to estimate that leucism has a frequency of about 1/100,000. I cry for the researcher that counted 100,000 penguins. The red line is the average of the populations.
> 
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> 
> This is what the simulation looks like when being leucistic is slightly more advantageous than being normal
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> This is what the simulation looks like when being leucistic is equally advantageous
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> (if you extended this graph many more generations it would look similar to the first graph)
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> If leucism was disadvantageous in the simulation it would look like the first graph inverted.
> 
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> 
> No well known dart frog populations have a high number of leucistic animals, so I would feel pretty confident in saying that leucism isn't more or equally advantageous to dart frogs.
> 
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> So if the goldens are a naturally occurring morph, i'd imagine that it would pretty much have to be due to a founder effect and genetic drift. the odds are definitely not in the favor of a population establishing or being fixed with leucistic animals though...


You may have made an assumption, that is that the Golden auratus is a leucistic animal. I don't know Sean Stewart, but I have not read that he has made that claim. 

I do believe it's leucistic animal. It's why it's not prolific like other auratus. It's why it looks like a leucistic animal. It's why there are no claims to a location where these animals can be found. What evidence does anyone have that this is a real locale? None.


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## hypostatic

If I recall correctly, I believe I read that they are supposed to be a locale or population of auratus.

My post above was to try to rationalize whether a population of purely leucistic animals was likely. The odds seem stacked against them for a population to have the leucistic phenotype fixed in an existing population -- so I'd imagine that if a population exists it's probably due to a founder effect of mainly leucistic animals, or genetic drift.


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## ecichlid

hypostatic said:


> If I recall correctly, I believe I read that they are supposed to be a locale or population of auratus.


 I have read the same, but I don't believe it for a second. I would think those that who make such statements believe that the golden auratus is not a leucistic animal.


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## Bigsease30

Wow, your vivarium looks fantastic! If I may ask, How much do you think that you spent on the supplies used for the background?

I am currently doing research on building my own viv which I will start sometime in the coming weeks. I ordered a 36x18x24 on sale on amazon but after looking at this I may use my Green Tree Pythons 36x18x36 instead. The extra foot definitely looks to make a noticeable difference. Thanks for sharing and giving me a few new ideas.


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## Marty

That's gorgeous looking !!!


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## jarteta97

Hey Marty, I went to check out your LED systems today, but the website isn't working because of maintenance. How long will it be down for?


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## Marty

jarteta97 said:


> Hey Marty, I went to check out your LED systems today, but the website isn't working because of maintenance. How long will it be down for?


Sorry, I haven't activated that one yet. Go to MistKing.com instead, the lights are there


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## dartboard

August Update:

I apologize I haven't updated or answered questions for a while. Life is busy right? I hesitated doing this update because I am transitioning some of the style of the tank and so for some people this might seem like an uglier tank than the last update, but I have a vision of where I am taking it. I apologize all of these shots are with my phone camera and may be washed out. 

First things first, current full tank shot:










The first two things you may have noticed is 1. a lot less plants/greenery. The reason is two fold. When I first planted the tank I did a ton of different mosses. I loved them at first but some of them grew quite large and pretty much hid any design/background to the tank. I feel like the main thing going for this tank is the woodwork/background, and I felt like I wanted to showcase that more prominently. So I am slowly removing a lot of the tall grassy moss and leaving the small tight stick to the wood mosses. 2. I have not had the lights on as much this summer and the colors of some of the broms have faded. This is two fold, in a vegas summer I didnt want to add anymore heat than is already around, and I wanted to put it through a season of less light just for the fun. Let me show you:

Here is a lot of the tall moss I still have in there in places:










Here is some of the low to the ground moss that is starting to spread everywhere in the tank. It seems to still allow you to see the background for what it is and still have green moss:



















The sphagnum moss is doing so well that I have left it in for now even though it grows and hides stuff as well. Heres two pictures to show how well it is doing:



















I also took out a lot of the vines/plants that were growing like crazy and really blocking the sun for a lot of the moss and broms that I want showing up. I want a cleaner less crowded look. I want to show off the wood and rock pieces more. Heres some more pictures of the tank









































































































































As you can see It shows a lot more of the wood pieces. There are still plenty of holes/crooks/crannys for the frogs to have their peace and quiet so they choose, although they are always out and never choose to be hidden.

The grand plan I think is to leave those two main areas with broms and larger moss, and then let the low tiny moss cover most of the other stuff so I have a really green tank that still shows the background design, with some colorful ascent pieces seen in the form of the broms.

As far as the frogs, I have downgraded the size to a more managable 7 frogs. They all are fat and happy. They are almost 11 months old and I have not heard any calling yet. I assume with 7 frogs I must have at least one male. Hopefully he'll show himself soon!

Let me know if you guys have any questions or comments. Thanks


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## Dale D

Still one of the nicest hardscapes out there.


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## ecichlid

dartboard said:


> As far as the frogs, I have downgraded the size to a more managable 7 frogs.


 How many were in there originally and why is 7 more manageable?


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## J.T.Tanks

That looks freaking amazing I love the slate waterfall idea


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## dartboard

ecichlid said:


> How many were in there originally and why is 7 more manageable?


I probably worded that wrong, I think I originally had like 12 or 13 in there, and I think they were all doing just fine, and the tank is plenty big to hold that number, I just wanted a smaller size so that I could tell them all apart and manage their health better.

With 7 I can quickly see all of them and know they are all eating well and getting fed, with 13 I felt I never saw all of them and wasnt sure if I was keeping a good eye on all of them.

I hope they have tadpoles and baby frogs hopping around in there one day and we will get the numbers up again, it was more just a personal choice for me. We have an awesome local pet store here in Vegas Reptiles-N-Reefs that took the extra ones from me.

But now that I have not heard calling I am worried I have 7 females....lol


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## ecichlid

They're only 11 months old. They need more time.


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## dartboard

I know they're still young, but then you here stories of luecs that start calling at 5 months and you start to think what is wrong with yours.

Quick question as a side note, I know chocolate luecs are fine to be bred with normal luecs as it is just a variant in the genes, but what is the current stance on other types of luecs like banded and fine spotted ones? Is it understood that they are variants or completely different subgroups that should be kept apart?



ecichlid said:


> They're only 11 months old. They need more time.


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## rigel10

Not leucs expert, but leucs lover, so I tell you to separate the various morph as for all other dart frog. Among other things, not all of them are from Guyana. 
Responsible and I agree with the decision to reduce the number of frogs in your viv. 
Finally, I know from experience of others that leucs are more late to breed compared to other frogs. 
But there are exceptions... So I hope for you! But with 7 frogs you have there a male for sure!


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## dartboard

September Update:

I had this thing set up for a humidifier to run from the back hidden area. I finally got around to attaching it and so here are some pictures and updated photos on how the tank looks.


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## FroggyKnight

dartboard said:


> I know they're still young, but then you here stories of luecs that start calling at 5 months and you start to think what is wrong with yours.
> 
> Quick question as a side note, I know chocolate luecs are fine to be bred with normal luecs as it is just a variant in the genes, but what is the current stance on other types of luecs like banded and fine spotted ones? Is it understood that they are variants or completely different subgroups that should be kept apart?


Both banded and fine spot are actually individual locales rather than a line bred form or genetic trait. With this in mind, it would be best to keep them separate from other leucomelas forms, just like most darts.

The tank looks really great and I've been following this thread from the first post. I can't wait to see updates on how it evolves over time! You have created the ultimate leuc paradise

John


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## Reef Fever

awesome viv, any updates?


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## Okapi

That is most certainly a chocolate Leuc.

Beautiful set up.


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## fbazin

Nice built, looks great.


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## SpaceMan

Incredible build. From your experience with the grow-out phase, what mosses did the best, and what would you say your favorite of them were?


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## dartboard

update coming this week!!!!


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## BaysExotics

^ Good! cant get enough of this tank and that chocolate leuc, great stuff


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## Mavpa

I have just a general question about this build... first, it's incredible and inspiring. I just noticed this, and some others like it, are absent or very low on substrate? Is there any downside to this aside from the kind of plants you can have? 

I'm working on my first real "fancy" build and obviously would want to incorporate some of these elements. I just want to make sure my little Auratuses will be safe, happy and able to find food in something without a traditional ground floor.

Again though, stunning work.


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## emallard25

wow looks good.


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## dartboard

I figure since I am making a new build it is time to update this one as well. Pictures coming later today!


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## TJ_Burton

What humidifier/fogger do you run on your setups? 

Great looking build.


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## flyfshrmn98

This setup still around?


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## PlantDaddyPHL

Really love this build... Especially the cabinet and hood


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## dartboard

I am selling this tank and frogs with everything included.

5 lueks and 100 gallon tank. $500


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## ch3tt

Awesome build thread and incredible viv! I'm honored to now own it!


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## kblack3

Once it's in place get some pictures going!


American Dad Living The American Dream


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