# water logged substrate



## speed211 (Jan 27, 2006)

ok soo i overwatered my viv and saturated my substrate and i need help. here is some background. this viv is a 65g, the substrate is a mixture of sand, orchid mix soil, and regular potting soil topped with a layer of spaghnum moss. my false bottom is bout 2in thick made with pea gravel(fish gravel). there is not any water in the false bottom.

this viv does not house frogs only plants. in the summer the viv is kept outdoors and heavy watering kept the temps down lower inside the viv. i moved the setup in the garage when the weather cooled off (about octoberish). So its been months without any watering and the substrate is still really waterlogged and i am losing plants because of it.

I thought i would ask before i scrap the whole substrate and start again(i think potting soil was a bad idea anyway) Any ideas on how to dry the viv out some. i dont want to lose what plants r left inside of it.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Please see my all recent posts about "wicking" and substrates, I do not have time to rewrite everything.


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

A photo would really help. But I have felt your pain. 

Taking off the lid would allow substrate to dry, but blow the humidity which the above-ground plant parts need.

What I did was make a temporary growtank with moist spaghnum to grow cuttings from any plants I could rescue that way (in my case, almost all of them.) I dug out the mini-sinningia bulbs to join the cuttings.

Back in my soggy tank I cut the remaining plants way back, and put plastic baggie hats over the stubs to maintain some local humidity. Then I removed the lid and let it dry, with some occasional localized stirring. 

In the end I totally replaced the substrate anyway, changing to a mix I hoped would act less like a sponge. And by then, I had rooted plants to put back in. 

A couple of ferns that stayed in the tank had drowned and dried but still managed to retain a spark of life; I trimmed the dead parts off and replanted the happy little green nubbins in the new substrate.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

I do not know how to link my posts, but I have wriiten lot's of stuff on this topic. Search "groundhog."

In future, please do a search, you will find there are usually several threads dealing with potential problems! 

SUFFICE TO SAY: 

1) Substrate: Where o were did you get te idea it is okay to use potting soil?!? That is not a rhetorical question--where?

I am one with Rex Lee Searcy on peat-based soil mixes: In a closed, warm tank, it breaks down, that is degrades, much faster than coir. A coir-based substrate ("Coco bedding" or "Dendro bedding") will last much longer, over a drainage layer OR a false bottom (separated by plastic mesh). While gravel works as a drainage layer, LECA is much lighter.

Black Jungle, for example, recommends 2/3 Coir (their Dendro bedding) with 1/3 tree fern fiber.

A highly recommended mix is the Atlanta Botanical Garden (ABG) recipe from Ron Gagliardo:

2 parts fine fir bark
2 parts fine tree fern fiber
2 parts milled sphagnum moss
1 part fine charcoal
1 part peat moss

Personally, I don't see the need for charcoal, but it won't hurt. Now it is true that mixes with a little peat are fine. *WHAT I DO* is to use the Black Jungle recipe, with a little ABG mix around the individual plants. 

2) Water: A drainage layer means NOTHING until the substrate becomes saturated, which is what we want to avoid. There is not really a "water table"--My substate has gotten too moist and the layer underneath is virtually dry!! The substrate acts as a #[email protected]%& sponge and holds the water _above_ the LECA stones...

One needs to use a fast-draining substrate. Remember, there is no real correlation between over-watering and humidity; watering does not compenate for air humidity. It is possible to have an enclosed, humid tank and virtually never have to water it!

Hope this helps!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

well said sir. I like the charcoal in the substrate for structue. Necessary? probably not, but I like it anyway


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## speed211 (Jan 27, 2006)

thanks guys i knew potting soil was a bad idea but i did it anyway....stubborn and low on cashola helped make that decision although i did take the terrerium recipe for the substrate off some rinky dink website in my defense..cant remember the site though. I was hoping not to scrub the whole nine yards but i guess i will. I eventually intend to introduce darts into this tank so better now than later.... right?

damn costly newb mistake!


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## speed211 (Jan 27, 2006)

Im sure im gonna get flamed for the search function on this....but can anyone recomend an online store to buy all of the ingredients for the ABG substrate mix or does someone sell this as a premixed item?


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

premix can be found amongst the sponsors


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## speed211 (Jan 27, 2006)

thx everyone for your expertise

speed


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