# Snow storm, loss of power



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok we had a big storm come through. I guess lots of places are getting hammered. We don't get a lot of snow around here, so, we aren't really set up for it. I always lose power. Lost power today from about 8:30 am until just now.

So, I'm trying to keep the frogs comfy, in the event of power going back out. Keep in mind that I'm socked in here and cannot take the frogs anywhere. They don't plow secondary roads and the snow is up over my knees. 

When the power went out this morning, I covered the tops of the tanks with plastic to slow the loss of warm air, and I dropped a thermometer in one of the tanks to monitor tank temps. They dropped from 74 to 66 before the power came back on. 

In case the power goes back out, I have containers ready to move them into, with the plan of putting them in bed or on the couch with me, to keep temps up. I'll be keeping a check on the temps to make sure they stay in a decent range.

Does this sound right? What else should I be thinking about (no I'm not putting the flies and springs in my bed  )

(agh, power flickering again as I type this)

Pumilios have tads in the broms, 2 clutches of eggs, and another clutch of tads that have just hatched from the eggs and look like they are ready for transport. What do I do with them? Can I move the plant with a clutch, film container with clutch, and, the hatched tads into the temp container with the parents? Will they recognize their offspring when they go back into the tank? I'm guessing the tads in the broms will be on their own, as I can't think of how to move them successfully.



Phil I have your cell number. If I lose power again and can't get back on to see if anyone has any advice, I'm going to give you a call. Ok?


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

Unless the temps drop much below 60 I would leave them where they are at. You can also place candles(If you have any) near the tanks as a way to generate localized heat spots.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Depending on the size of the enclosure, you could add one or more plastic bottles (like soda bottles) filled with water of the appropriate temperature (say 80-82 F) and then place them into the tanks. If the tanks are fairly sealed this increases thermal mass and reduces the rate of temperature decrease. Smaller enclosures can the phase change panels used in shipping. You can aways put some of the cultures into a drinks cooler with a bottle of warm water if you loose power so thier growth cycle isn't interrupted. I wouldn't worry about the springtails unless your house if getting close to freezing and you'll have bigger concerns by then (like your water pipes). 

Ed


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

It is snowing like crazy here, right now I can barley see out side.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks Roman, that's a good idea. I'll keep candles in mind. 

I don't expect to move them unless the power is out at nightfall. The last time a storm like this came through, the power was out for 3 days and my house temps were just above freezing. Right now the outside temps are 29F.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks Ed. I do have a cooler and already have water in bottles from when I moved frogs to IAD in Baltimore. I'll drop some cultures in there to make sure I don't lose them all.

I'll get to filling up some more bottles while the water heater is still on.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Also heat packs and blankets to further slow the loss of heat from the tanks.



Ed said:


> Depending on the size of the enclosure, you could add one or more plastic bottles (like soda bottles) filled with water of the appropriate temperature (say 800-82 F) and then place them into the tanks. If the tanks are fairly sealed this increases thermal mass and reduces the rate of temperature decrease. Smaller enclosures can the phase change panels used in shipping. You can aways put some of the cultures into a drinks cooler with a bottle of warm water if you loose power so thier growth cycle isn't interrupted. I wouldn't worry about the springtails unless your house if getting close to freezing and you'll have bigger concerns by then (like your water pipes).
> 
> Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogface said:


> Thanks Ed. I do have a cooler and already have water in bottles from when I moved frogs to IAD in Baltimore. I'll drop some cultures in there to make sure I don't lose them all.
> 
> I'll get to filling up some more bottles while the water heater is still on.


 
For the future, you may want to consider investing in some battery powered hand warmers. You could drop them into a container to keep them from getting wet and stick them into the cages to provide localized heating sources. 

Ed


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

or 5 gal of kerosene and a $100 kerosene heater.



Ed said:


> For the future, you may want to consider investing in some battery powered hand warmers. You could drop them into a container to keep them from getting wet and stick them into the cages to provide localized heating sources.
> 
> Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ed said:


> For the future, you may want to consider investing in some battery powered hand warmers. You could drop them into a container to keep them from getting wet and stick them into the cages to provide localized heating sources.
> 
> Ed


Great idea! Wish I'd thought of that. 

What do you think of the idea of giving them body heat if the temps drop low? Are they better off in their tanks?




> or 5 gal of kerosene and a $100 kerosene heater.


I did think about kerosene but wasn't sure how safe the fumes would be for the frogs. Maybe safer than freezing to death, though.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

frogfarm said:


> or 5 gal of kerosene and a $100 kerosene heater.


 
Some areas have regulations prohibiting the use of kerosene heaters inside building due to fire problems.. 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Times like this when you are expecting power may fail, you could raise your house temp from 70 to about 75. Buys you a little time if power does fail. Here in Colorado we have the same problem sometimes. Cover your vivs with whatever blankets and sleeping bags you have on hand as quickly as you can when it goes out. Also, consider pinning/nailing blankets over the biggest and coldest windows and doors in the house.
Doug


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Ah, I don't know if they have that here and wouldn't really care if they did if it was down to my pipes breaking or family and frogs freezing, but that's just me. I'm in no way suggesting breaking the law. It seemed to me to be the easiest fix when the power went out here for 4 days and I hadn't installed my wood stove yet.



Ed said:


> Some areas have regulations prohibiting the use of kerosene heaters inside building due to fire problems..
> 
> Ed


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

If you use it right there should be no smell or bad fumes. If the wick is too high it'll throw off black soot and smell bad. And make sure you get k1 kerosene, which is supposed to be the cleanest. Any other may screw up the wick and smell pretty bad. I used mine for 4 days here and I didn't see any long or short term problems.



frogface said:


> Great idea! Wish I'd thought of that.
> 
> What do you think of the idea of giving them body heat if the temps drop low? Are they better off in their tanks?
> 
> ...


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

do you have nateral gas stove or water heater? we lost power for 4 or five days during a big ice storm and thats what kept my frogs alive. I ran the stove and put pots and jugs of really hot water near the frogs.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

No gas anything here. I have a gas fireplace but never got the gas set up for it because, well, how often do you need a fire around here. Would be nice to have right now, though.

I can't get out to purchase anything. Even if I could, the stores will all be shut down, anyway. So, it's just me, the cat, the frogs, and whatever I can find around the house to keep us warm. 

Got the heat cranked up while the power is on
Got bottles lined up to fill with water
Will grab whatever blankets I can find to cover the tanks. 
Have CFLs on the tanks for now, to warm them back up.

What am I missing?
At what temps do I take emergency action?

Oh and the pums are working on a new clutch


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

It's snowing like crazy back home in NY, but I'm here in warm(ish) FL. Hopefully my power doesn't go out... that wouldn't be good... at all


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

If I weren't an atheist, I'd recommend lots of praying! We're expecting two feet here in NYC. The huskies love the snow, though.

Richard.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Woodsman said:


> If I weren't an atheist, I'd recommend lots of praying! We're expecting two feet here in NYC. The huskies love the snow, though.
> 
> Richard.


If I weren't an atheist, I'd take you up on that.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

frogface said:


> If I weren't an atheist, I'd take you up on that.


Let's all not pray together.  IIRC Ed has said in the past that he had tinc group frogs in the 50's for several days without any issues, and I have personally seen pumilio that were partially frozen in shipping make a full recovery. These frogs are a lot tougher than we think.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Tony said:


> Let's all not pray together.  IIRC Ed has said in the past that he had tinc group frogs in the 50's for several days without any issues, and I have personally seen pumilio that were partially frozen in shipping make a full recovery. These frogs are a lot tougher than we think.


In the low 50s.. 


Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks Tony. That helps a lot. I'll back out of panic mode now.


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## JBR (May 8, 2006)

Every year I read these threads and say I really need to buy a generator for this type of situation and every year I don't do it for some reason.... that's it, I'm buying a generator after this storm!


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

We just got a generator, I would definitely recommend one for the frogs sake. Especially if you have power outages a lot. Out new generator will be able to keep the whole house just the way it is now of our power went out.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yea, I've been trying to save for a generator. I was thinking for hurricane season, though, not snow, lol.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

A generator is a good thing to have. A word of advice: you should also read up to see how much gas/hr you need and how often you have to change the oil. When you can't travel to get gas or your gas stations can not pump gas w/out electricity, you'll need 4-5 days supply of gas and oil,possibly, or your generator will be worth nothing to you. Most gas stations run out of oil in an outage as people buy up the stock commonly used in generators very quickly.


Yes, during the october storm a lot of people bought generators and couldn't get the gas to run them or oil to change after each day of running. Most people are very ill prepared for not having electricity. Me included as our well runs on electric and we can't get running water during an outage. We have heat and emergency electric for our fridge and freezer, the heater and water aren't hooked up to be plugged in, they are only hard wired for electric.

I'm thinking of getting battery back up and starting wind and solar instead of getting a backup generator on propane which I may never use. I figure battery backup and generating electric I can use for basic lighting and backup for the necessities for a few days would be smarter.


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## packer43064 (Nov 30, 2010)

frogface said:


> Yea, I've been trying to save for a generator. I was thinking for hurricane season, though, not snow, lol.



My Ex went to Johnson and Wales in NC (maybe SC...IDK or care, lol) and they got half an inch of snow which melted by 9:30am, they canceled the whole days worth of class.  We get half a foot and you might get a 2 hour delay....if your lucky back when I was in highschool. I know it's not right, but for once I wish the whole south got blanketed with like a foot of snow and the north went with winter with no snow. lol It's crazy how different things are.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Hah! Don't wish that on us, please. You know we don't have snow tires or whatever. Nor do we have the DOT plowing or putting down stuff on our secondary roads. And none of us know how to drive in it anyway.

I'm out in the boonies and it's a long walk to the Interstate. Just wish I'd gone to the grocery store yesterday. I'm a little hungry. 

We got 10" here in my area. That's a lot of snow for us!


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## JBR (May 8, 2006)

Frogfarm, My company has a jobsite style generator and if I remember correctly it ran for most of the day on one tank of gas. For some strange reason (dumb) it never crossed my mind that the oil should be changed in them. Does it really need to be changed after every day of use? By the way the frogs I bought from you years ago and they are still doing well. I haven't seen you at White Plains in a while are you still doing that show ever?


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Do you have a large cooler for drinks / food? If worst comes to worst, you could try putting frogs in deli cups with substrate in the cooler and place a bunch of phase panels and a bottle of water warmed to the appropriate temperature like Ed mentioned in there, then insulate the cooler even further. Perhaps you could put a flashlight in there to give them a photoperiod.

Perhaps you could also just put styrofoam from shipping around your tanks and put a phase 22 panel in each tank too.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Rain_Frog said:


> Do you have a large cooler for drinks / food? If worst comes to worst, you could try putting frogs in deli cups with substrate in the cooler and place a bunch of phase panels and a bottle of water warmed to the appropriate temperature like Ed mentioned in there, then insulate the cooler even further. Perhaps you could put a flashlight in there to give them a photoperiod.
> 
> Perhaps you could also just put styrofoam from shipping around your tanks and put a phase 22 panel in each tank too.


I would keep them dark if you have to put them into a cooler. The lack of photoperiod will reduce metabolic rates and stress. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

On an alternate thought, if you have any bean beetle cultures going... the last couple of weeks before they emerge, they really heat up thier culture.. You could also use some of them as heat pads in the cooler. 

Ed


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Mine said it should be changed every 24 hours of use. I think a tank on mine lasts about 8 hours, they all vary though and each one varies according to how much juice your pulling out.

I think I'm switching over to wholesale and not selling to the public anymore. The shows got to be way too much work as I'm not as young as I used to be. I can't drive 16 hours anymore and stay awake for 40+ of working strait. I don't think I'll be back at white plains anytime soon. Glad the frogs are doing well!

There is a show in Buffalo 2x a year now and they serve beer there. I think that may be the only show I do anymore.



JBR said:


> Frogfarm, My company has a jobsite style generator and if I remember correctly it ran for most of the day on one tank of gas. For some strange reason (dumb) it never crossed my mind that the oil should be changed in them. Does it really need to be changed after every day of use? By the way the frogs I bought from you years ago and they are still doing well. I haven't seen you at White Plains in a while are you still doing that show ever?


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## fido (Sep 29, 2008)

If you have a generator you have to change oil in every 24hrs you had better get a different one. 

If you have wood locally I would go with a good wood heater. We use one all winter hear in Alberta. It supplies 90% of our house heat. I have a Honda 3500 watt gen that supplies our needs when the power is out for any amount of time. Be aware of the legalities of hooking up a generator, a switch to shut off the power grid is needed, you don’t want to fry any linemen.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Briggs & Stratton 5250 Watt Generator

02 January 2006

Due to the recent ice storm we were with out power for almost one week. I had just bought a Briggs & Stratton 5250 watt generator model 030204. The unit has one 120 volt AC 20 Amp. duplex receptacle and one 120/240 Volt AC 30 Amp locking receptacle and also came with a 25 foot cord that plugs into the 30 Amp receptacle that splits into four 120 volt female plugs. This unit has a 7 gallon fuel tank that was good for over 12 hours of running without refueling and it also came with the wheel kit installed. The following is my schedule of refueling and oil changes on this generator that was brand new with "0" hours on it.

My observation on oil changes was if it was changed under 40 hours the oil was still a clean golden color but the one time it went to 55 hours it had became a little dark. The oil was still translucent but about two shades darker than new. I will now make sure all oil changes will be before 40 hours.

The factory maintennance schedule for this generator is as follows.

First 5 hours
* Change oil

Every 8 hours or daily
* Check oil level
* Clean around muffler, springs and linkages

Every 25 hours or every season
* Change oil if operating under heavy load or high ambient temperature
* Service air cleaner pre-cleaner

Every 50 hours or every season
* Change oil
* Clean and inspect spark arrester, if equipped
* Clean fuel filter

Every 100 hours or every season
* Service air cleaner cartridge
* Replace spark plug
* Clean cooling system

Every season
* Check valve clearance



fido said:


> If you have a generator you have to change oil in every 24hrs you had better get a different one.
> 
> If you have wood locally I would go with a good wood heater. We use one all winter hear in Alberta. It supplies 90% of our house heat. I have a Honda 3500 watt gen that supplies our needs when the power is out for any amount of time. Be aware of the legalities of hooking up a generator, a switch to shut off the power grid is needed, you don’t want to fry any linemen.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Fido, you should check your owners manual as the honda 3500 recommends oil changes every 20 hrs. Sorry.



fido said:


> If you have a generator you have to change oil in every 24hrs you had better get a different one.
> 
> If you have wood locally I would go with a good wood heater. We use one all winter hear in Alberta. It supplies 90% of our house heat. I have a Honda 3500 watt gen that supplies our needs when the power is out for any amount of time. Be aware of the legalities of hooking up a generator, a switch to shut off the power grid is needed, you don’t want to fry any linemen.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Also I forgot to add, idk if Dave (dendrodave) has see this thread or not, but I will say something for him. When Oklahoma had their REALLY bad ice storm we lost power for a good week or so, and Dave lost almost his whole collection of darts... This was before I got into darts.


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## ruthieb (Oct 18, 2010)

I used to complain about having a phony fireplace run by propane - I wanted a real one - until I got my darts. Everytime a sparrow farts in the woods where I live, I lose power. The propane stove isn't pretty but it's run by a thermostat and not electricity so when the power goes out, I can not only cook on it but it heats the house. It was a lifesaver when I lost power for almost three days a couple of weeks ago. 
Now that I think of it, I'd better check the gauge and be sure I refill my tank soon.....


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

frogface said:


> Ok we had a big storm come through. I guess lots of places are getting hammered. We don't get a lot of snow around here, so, we aren't really set up for it. I always lose power. Lost power today from about 8:30 am until just now.
> 
> So, I'm trying to keep the frogs comfy, in the event of power going back out. Keep in mind that I'm socked in here and cannot take the frogs anywhere. They don't plow secondary roads and the snow is up over my knees.
> 
> ...


WHAT?!?!?!? My frogs are at home and its tough enought to keep that room at 65!!!! I hope all the frogs are alive by the time I get back!!!


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

frogface said:


> If I weren't an atheist, I'd take you up on that.


As An Atheist I still Respect and Honor Mother Nature


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Wood Fired Boiler Systems....Radiant floor heating is Fantastic.
I have never believed in being Total Electric..

If I ever built a place I would have Solar, Wind, Electric along with gas, and wood. And Also Use Spray Insulation.


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## angry gary (Dec 9, 2009)

i switched our main house heat from electric to propane years ago for just this reason. we have gotten 35 inches plus of snow 6 of the 20 years i have lived here. i used to run a wood stove but got tired of chopping and stacking wood every summer. i now have a 5500 watt generator and have used it at least once a year and i think the most was 4 times in one year. i have it stored in a small wooden box under my deck. i need it i open the box add fuel and fire it up. i do not have it hard wired into my main panel but i have hard wired a line into the basement where my reef tanks used to be and now where my frogs are. i spliced my furnace power so i can plug in the 110v needed to run the fan on it.

and as for changing genorator oil every 24 hours. i find that pretty silly. i worked construction on and off and we ran generators 8 hours a day 5 days a week for weeks on end without ever changing the oil.

AG


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## fido (Sep 29, 2008)

Its an ES3500 and its every100hrs
hondapowerequipment.com/pdf/manuals/3688012.pdf


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Chris

The power's been holding steady in my area since I made this post. WRAL says snow won't melt until Wednesday. Don't remember when you are coming back but if you want me to check on them on Wednesday, and, you have a key hidden somewhere, let me know (and none of those fancy alarms). 

Oh wait, you do have those fancy alarms. I remember the launch pad just to get into your garage.


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

frogface said:


> Chris
> 
> The power's been holding steady in my area since I made this post. WRAL says snow won't melt until Wednesday. Don't remember when you are coming back but if you want me to check on them on Wednesday, and, you have a key hidden somewhere, let me know (and none of those fancy alarms).
> 
> Oh wait, you do have those fancy alarms. I remember the launch pad just to get into your garage.


lol...Ill be back tomorrow night...lets just hope they are alive and well.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

As the guy who lost $3000+ (around 50 or so animals) and 100's of dollars in plants and 100's of wasted man hours spent on vivs due to being without power for 7days after the major OK ice storm a couple years ago I'm casting my vote for generator if you have very much money invested in this hobby. Many of the other ideas are good too though as stop gap measure in less extreme cases.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Ah, you didn't say es3500. The other models said to be changed every 20 hrs or every month, whichever came first esp running under heavy load.

And angry Gary, if you want to go outside what is recommended in the manual, that's allright w/ me. 

Basically check your owners manual. I'm sure they'll last longer if you follow what's recommended. 



fido said:


> Its an ES3500 and its every100hrs
> hondapowerequipment.com/pdf/manuals/3688012.pdf


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I've had a +5Kwatt generator for a couple years now. It's easily saved my collection a couple times since I've had it, here in NE. Well worth the coin. 

Another thing that goes along with owning and using an generator, is finding a place to safely run it, setting up the electrical connections, and getting a couple large gas cans. 

I've run my generator half in, half out my attached garage. Door open of course. This is the bad way to do it, and dangerous. A seperate open, but covered doggy house is on the list of things to build. I have a long, rubber jacketed extension cord so I can set up the generator +20ft away from the house.

I also rewired the propane fired hot water heater and furnace to a DIY manual transfer switch. I basically created a second, seperate panel in the utility closet that is powered by the generator, and added a plug to the furnace connection and sockets to the panel. I plug and unplug the loads as needed. Cheaper and easier to install then a full up manual transfer switch and cuts back on the number of extension cords. 

Gas cans are important to have, unless you like going out for gas everyday and waiting in line. There was a run on them during the last big storm we had. Better to get these things early.


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## vugger#1 (Jul 20, 2009)

I also live in a bad spot for blackouts. 3 to 4 times a year. So I bought a 6500 watt generator 3 years ago for like $850.00 wired it into the house with a main switch to keep from back feeding the to pole outside. It will run my whole house minus the aircon for 9 hours on a 6 gallon tank of gas. So I keep 4 tanks of gas filled and sitting ready. I think I have $1,200.00 total into the whole setup Only thing I would have done different is buy a bigger generator so I could run the aircon
So my thinking is if you have a $1,000.00 or many many more in most cases of frogs its a must. For me my basement would also flood so that made the investment even more reasonable. But right now I am just thinking of what I could lose in frogs and fish if I did not have this.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I can see there is a lot I need to learn about generators before I get one. I was thinking I'd just put it on my covered front porch, but, sounds like that's not a good idea. 

Hopefully I'll have one by the next hurricane season (and know how to use it).


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## Gumby (May 27, 2010)

frogface said:


> I do have a cooler and already have water in bottles from when I moved frogs to IAD in Baltimore.



Did you vend at the M.A.R.S. reptile show? I remember IAD attented that show. Im not trying to hijack or anything I'm just curious. You can PM me if you'd like. 

Thanks,
Chris


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Gumby said:


> Did you vend at the M.A.R.S. reptile show? I remember IAD attented that show. Im not trying to hijack or anything I'm just curious. You can PM me if you'd like.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris


Nope didn't vend. Went up to deliver some frogs and to pick up my beloved El Dorado


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## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

Well if you are dealing with stuff around your house you wouldn't have a power inverter would you? You can take your car battery out and hook it up and run a portable electric heater for awhile, but your going to need a jump when your ready to drive. Another thing, is your fireplace real with a chimney? If so you could open it and try to remove the gas logs just enough to burn some wood in it.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

If I get what your saying: Start a fire in a fireplace w/ gas lines leading into it? I would suggest a big NO.



brien said:


> Well if you are dealing with stuff around your house you wouldn't have a power inverter would you? You can take your car battery out and hook it up and run a portable electric heater for awhile, but your going to need a jump when your ready to drive. Another thing, is your fireplace real with a chimney? If so you could open it and try to remove the gas logs just enough to burn some wood in it.


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## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

Lol your gas on off is outside before the meter


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

And your positive it shuts off 100%, this would be a bad way to find out, not to mention damaging the lines, if it doesn't blow up. Still sounds like a bad idea to me. And you didn't mention anything about shutting off the gas, big mistake. If u do have such a setup I would just open the gas and manually light the logs.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Sounds like a risk to me too. There will still be gas in the lines once it's shut off.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm not one to take risks with possible fires or explosions 

That said, there is no gas on my property. This is one of those fireplaces that hooks up to a tank in your yard. I didn't want a tank of gas in my yard and don't really need inside fires much around here. 

No chimney. It's fake. I'm going to cover it up and give myself more wall space, one of these days. Now, above it is one of those giant cupboards for a fancy gigantic TV. I'm not much of a TV watcher so it's really just a big hole in the wall. But it's wired and it's starting to look like a nice place for a gigantic frog tank.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

That would be totally cool!


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## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

Ok if it's fake by no means do you want to try burning something in it that is a really bad idea, it would smoke out your entire house


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## fido (Sep 29, 2008)

Quote"This is one of those fireplaces that hooks up to a tank in your yard. I didn't want a tank of gas in my yard and don't really need inside fires much around here.

This sounds like a propane fueled fireplace? I would look into getting it fitted properly. This would make a nice backup heat device. That is if it doesn't need power to function. Otherwise you would have to run a generator too.

Good luck


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

Deaths I found due to this damn storm while I was in sunny FL for Christmas

25 tadpoles
1 male vanzo
possibly one male Std lamasi- He hides very good
8 froglets

Im pissed...who would've thought that the power would go out here as for living here for 5 years it has only happened once


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

rcteem said:


> Deaths I found due to this damn storm while I was in sunny FL for Christmas
> 
> 25 tadpoles
> 1 male vanzo
> ...


Chris, soooo sorry about your losses. You just aren't having a good month. Well I'm sure karma will catch up to you and you'l have a breeding frenzy or something.


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

well its funny cause everything on a dry season lived and everything on a wet season lost at least one frog from that tank. All my frogs were recently tested so know its not a disease. As far a karma goes, Im having great karma right now outside of the hobby. I finally found a job after 8 months of being unemployed and only living off of frog sales, and might even be able to return back to brazil sooner than I thought


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Poor little frogs  . Glad the standard pair is ok.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

rcteem said:


> Deaths I found due to this damn storm while I was in sunny FL for Christmas
> 
> 25 tadpoles
> 1 male vanzo
> ...


I feel for ya man, especially having gone through even worse losses. We'd never lost power here for more then 48hrs I think in the 26 or so years I've lived in OK. Glad you didn't loose many adults at least.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

rcteem said:


> well its funny cause everything on a dry season lived and everything on a wet season lost at least one frog from that tank. All my frogs were recently tested so know its not a disease. As far a karma goes, Im having great karma right now outside of the hobby. I finally found a job after 8 months of being unemployed and only living off of frog sales, and might even be able to return back to brazil sooner than I thought


Now that really is odd. There must be some kind of connection there. I wonder if there is a "frog antifreeze" like ladybugs have. They have the ability to freeze solid over the winter only to return to life when spring arrives. Obviously frogs can't do that but it's interesting that all the wet season tanks had some kind of loss.


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## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I wonder if there is a "frog antifreeze" like ladybugs have. They have the ability to freeze solid over the winter only to return to life when spring arrives.


I don't believe that lady beetles can survive an extended freeze event, but rather seek refugia (such as in a house). 



Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Obviously frogs can't do that ...


Actually, some frogs, such as the wood frog (Rana sylvatica), do. See: woodfrogfreezing


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

I think I saw this on one of the "nature shows", planet earth perhaps.
Here is a similar link

FAQ: FAQ: Buglogical - Natural Biological Pest Control for Organic Gardening + Ladybugs, Nematodes and Praying Mantis

A PDF wouldn't be able to do that as it isn't exposed to freezing temps in it's natural enviroment. It hasn't evolved to have that ability that a wood frog does.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Now that really is odd. There must be some kind of connection there. I wonder if there is a "frog antifreeze" like ladybugs have. They have the ability to freeze solid over the winter only to return to life when spring arrives. Obviously frogs can't do that but it's interesting that all the wet season tanks had some kind of loss.


There are some species of frog that can freeze solid.. for example wood frogs (Lithobates (Rana) sylvaticus) freeze solid as part of thier hibernation mechanism.. I see Donn beat me to it.. I just hit post and looked at the thread.. 

There are a lot of factors that come into play when looking at temperature issues and amphibians.. For example the rate of temperature change, the temperature at which the amphibian had been kept and other factors can all come into play for thier survivial. 
There are also several anecdotal reports about low temperatures and at least species in the Dendrobates group.. I personally have had them surive in the low 50s with no issues. There are other reports in the frognet.org archives. 
I'm not sure why Chris saw a difference between the drier and wetter systems but when you start dealing with thermal minimum in sensitive species a five degree difference can be significant in the survivial.. 

Ed


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Ed I find this really interesting. Do you think the "wet" frogs that died were more hydrated than the "dry" ones. Meaning that there was more water in them? Of course we don't know how low the temps got in Chris's tanks. I just think the correlation between wet and dry, dead and alive is very interesting.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Ed I find this really interesting. Do you think the "wet" frogs that died were more hydrated than the "dry" ones. Meaning that there was more water in them? Of course we don't know how low the temps got in Chris's tanks. I just think the correlation between wet and dry, dead and alive is very interesting.


Actually can't be sure unless there were data loggers in those tanks.. I actually doubt the hydrated theory as it doesn't make sense. In other species (even marine toads), they actually don't freeze or hibernate but enter into a form (for lack of a better word) torpor that allows them to resist anaerobic metabolic byproducts from building in the tissues. 

I can't find the article I had in mind off hand but if you get a copy of this article it has a lot of good information 
ScienceDirect - Journal of Thermal Biology : Temperature and hypoxia in ectothermic tetrapods

Ed


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