# How far can a frog fall, and survive?



## a hill

Incredibly unusual question I've not been able to find an answer to over the past six months of casually looking into it.

How far can a dart frog fall and be alive and well enough to be able to live a fine life in the future?

Would thumbnails be safer at higher heights and falling, than say, a glac? 

The max height from substrate and leaf litter in this situation will be 6 feet, likely 4 feet or so. 

The tank will be somewhere between 4 and 8 feet tall, and hopefully will be 4x4 lxw, but I may have to make it smaller. 

Assume, heavily planted, but with three large pillars in the middle or so, the design means that they may be able to fall though... 

Yes, I'm likely going to have a thumb with something bigger, please murder me now. 

-Andew


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## Broseph

Quick search yielded a few results, this one seemed most relevant:

Safe falling distance?!


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## Dane

a hill said:


> Yes, I'm likely going to have a thumb with something bigger, please murder me now.
> 
> -Andew


Murder isn't always the answer. It would depend on your level of experience, and the species that you intend to choose to throw together. An enclosure of that size could be utilized as a mixed exhibit, as long as you take into consideration the behavioral and spatial requirements of each, and only mix locales that are known to cohabitate in the wild.

As far as the drop goes, I wouldn't worry about it, as long as you have a thick layer of substrate and leaf litter.


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## a hill

Broseph said:


> Quick search yielded a few results, this one seemed most relevant:
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/92599-safe-falling-distance.html


Was looking for more frequent and in viv.

Yeah everything will be done correctly...

You know, all the same color frogs right? I hear yellows with yellows and greens with green are how it should be!



-Andrew


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## phender

I would think a thumbnail would reach terminal velocity pretty quickly, because the cross section (air resistance) of the frog is pretty large compared to its mass, its terminal velocity should be pretty low. In other words, it might be difficult to kill a frog just by dropping it, no matter what the height, especially if it falls onto any sort of leaf litter.


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## ZenMonkey

Off-topic:



Dane said:


> Murder isn't always the answer.


This made me laugh for about five minutes.


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## mkeBob

I just had a three week oow A. trivitatta jump from its shoe box onto a shelf then off the shelf to the floor. At least a five foot fall. By the time I caught the poor froglet it looked like a moving dust bunny. I placed it in a 32 oz plastic cup, sprayed it clean, and put back in its shoe box. I didn't see it for three or four days but when I took out all the leaf litter and moved some moss there it was, looking good, and almost escaped again.


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## a hill

So, what about the empire state building?

-Andrew
ps. fine I'm not worried at all... when I have a frog jump to death, I'm holding you all responsible!


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## Dane

a hill said:


> ps. fine I'm not worried at all... when I have a frog jump to death, I'm holding you all responsible!


As long as you avoid a Mortal Kombat style spike pit at the bottom, you should be ok!


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## Giga

I've had my luecs take the leap of faith in my drop of-around 4ft- and there fine. I was scared at first but they seem to do it on purpose chasing flies


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## a hill

Dane said:


> As long as you avoid a Mortal Kombat style spike pit at the bottom, you should be ok!


No need, the outside the viv is basically hell for frogs. I live in AZ.

-Andrew


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## Ed

This discussion covers a lot of the topic. Frogs Falling 2 feet including from much greater heights.

Some comments

Ed


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## SupFrawg

What about heavier frogs, like leucs or full grown tincs? And even if landing on leaf-litter is fine, what if it hit something hard in the tank like a branch or cocohut? From my limited experience the frogs seem to have a good grasp of what they're capable of, and at least my tincs use their hops surprisingly tactically, but even cats trip sometimes. I guess all I'm really asking is, has anyone ever seen a frog hurt itself by falling?


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## a hill

Ed said:


> This discussion covers a lot of the topic. Frogs Falling 2 feet including from much greater heights.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


From thread Ed referenced.



ChrisK said:


> Yeah I think it depends what species it is - thumbs or pums can probably take it, I doubt the larger more terrestrial ones could do as well though.
> 
> YouTube - Dendrobates pumilio jumping from the canopy


I'd been wondering about that since they live so high up. I'm glad there is nothing to worry about.

All the threads I found were about frog prices falling...


Thanks!
-Andrew


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## ZenMonkey

My male auratus is rather small, and he has been an acrobat from the day he went into the vivarium. He is always climbing the glass, jumping around in the canopy, and he loves making death-defying leaps from as high as possible into a plant below. I've also seen him fall onto a coco hut. I have gasped and rushed over more times than I'd like to admit. Without exception he's up climbing/jumping again by the time I get there.

I think he's laughing at me.


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## Ed

a hill said:


> I'd been wondering about that since they live so high up. I'm glad there is nothing to worry about.


Tinctorius are known to use holes high in trees as tadpole deposition sites. 

A really large tinctorious is going to have a mass less than ten grams (usually approximately half that value in my experience) so it is much less than that of an adult mouse. So given that a soft substrate allows a mouse to walk away from a very high fall I'm going to say that this is also not a problem for the frogs. 

While at the zoo, I've seen tinctorius take four foot or so leaps onto concrete and be able to take off down the hallway before I could close the enclosure to capture them....... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## a hill

So, theoretically, if a frog went skydiving and landed in enough leaf litter, it'd be fine? 

Assuming no issues with the friction messing up their skin nor lack of oxygen nor temperature. 

-Andrew


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## a hill

So, upon further discussion with my father; who has a degree in nuclear physics, frogs can safely fall from space if the ground is soft enough. 

A flight attendant fell out of a crashing airplane at 30,000 feet into a snowy spot in the alps, walked down to the nearest town, and got help. 

I'll look for some references to this. 
-Andrew


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## Ed

a hill said:


> I'll look for some references to this.


This is a classic discussion on the topic. http://www.phys.ufl.edu/courses/phy3221/spring10/HaldaneRightSize.pdf I had posted it in the thread I linked to above. Its an interesting read and I remember it from Physics class back in something like 1983

Some comments

Ed


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## a hill

Here is the Wikipedia page on the woman.

*Vesna Vulović*

There is a theory that the plane was shot much lower but it is disputed.

Ed, mind just giving me a reading list?

-Andrew
Ps. Somewhat serious, eventually.




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