# New here....will this work for tincts? (pics)



## tinctacular (Jul 16, 2011)

Hey All,
Well a little about myself. Name is Joe. I have been keeping a reef tank for the past eight years. While i still love reefs that hobby is getting out of control so i kinda want to take a step back and try my hand at other things. I have always been interested in dart frogs but never really had the time or funds to start a tank until now. 
Basically i grabbed an old 20gal I had setting around, and starting designing it for a RETF tank until darts caught my eye  

I guess to start ill show pics of what i have designed so far. Then on to the many questions.

FVS









Right side









Left side









Backround









Backround 









Topdown









Thats what i have so far  The substrate is 2-3" layer of bulk gravel, felt on top of that, then about 2-4" of eco-earth on that. Dividing wall is great stuff foam, cut and painted. i have placed wholes in different locations throughout the wall to allow for circ. inside the drainage layer. Lighting is a 4 bulb t5 tek light. Water circulation is handled by a custom built filter in the right corner run by a maxi-jet 606. I have a separate line off the pump, with a valve to close it, to make water changed much easier.

Now on to the questions.... 
1. I would love to do a pair or trio of some type of tincts in this enclosure. Will this work? I know its faboo to mix morphs but what about species?

2. Should i run a glass lid or use a screen top?

3. Is the running water too strong for darts? Is the water too deep for darts?

4. There is a whole in the back of the tank (used to be a bulkhead), is it a wise choice to attach a small fan to this to help circulation?

5. Is it ok to stick a heating pad to the back glass panel (backround made using great stuff, silicone, and eco-earth)?

6. What is the easiest/best food source to feed these guys? 

I appreciate and compliments or critics! Thank you in advance!

Joe


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

1. I would go for a pair over a trio in a 20, especially since a fair amount of surface has been sacrificed for the water feature. There is plenty of debate over mixed species, but I think most of us agree that at the least that mixed vivs should not contain multiple morphs of one species or a mix of species that are capable of hybridization. In addition, there are a number of behavioral considerations to take into account, making a mixed viv the domain of very experienced froggers who are intimately familiar with the species involved. Mixing in a small enclosure as a new frogger is likely to end in disaster.

2. Full glass tops are probably the most common, but I personally prefer to have a small vent which can be covered or uncovered to manipulate humidity as needed. 

3. I would limit the current to a slow trickle. I can't really tell how deep the water is, but if in doubt just throw in a little extra gravel.

4. Do a search for "internal circulation" and you should find some good info. I don't have any personal experience to relate.

5. A heat pad is probably not needed, if you are comfortable in the room your frogs probably are too. I prefer to keep my day temps under 80, and let night temps drop as low as 55-60 during the winter.

6. Fruit flies are the basic staple, and there are many secondary feeders available as well. A search through the Food & Feeding section will bring up enough info to keep you busy reading for quite a while. Don't forget the need for a quality supplement either.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Welcome to the board!


Nice start!

Now to address a couple of issues to prep for your tinctorius 

I would definitely shrink the water feature, in overall size as well as depth. I would not fill in with more gravel, seriously lower that water level because I can already see in the photos that it has your substrate drenched and you havent even started misting the tank. Which I find od since it looks like you have the sides of the water feature foamed off. As far as shrinking I personally would shrink the water area back to that rock bridge and remove the cork tube as the water flow (Still leaving cork tube in as a hide for the frogs  )

Also mix in some other substrate materials to help keep that soil loose and airy. Your plants will love you much more and the micro fauna will as well.

In addition looking at your photos, it looks as if you do not have a drainage layer?
If you dont have a drainage layer you are prolly going to need to move all that substrate out anyways and install a drainage layer.


I definitely love the background and overall concept!

Todd


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

There are some Ameerega varieties that would love that tank, but if you're planning on tincs I would make the water feature much smaller as others have said.


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## tinctacular (Jul 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies!
Tony: good to know about mixing species and such. Looks like I'm gonna do a pair. I was thinking Suriname cobalts or patricias.
I'm thinking glass tops with some acrylic diy for some vents
Tank is in the basement and therm in the tank says 74
I'll do those searches and see what I can find 

Todd: what would you recommend as another substance to mix in the substrate? Orchid bark?
The drainage layer is in the partionade off part. It's 2 in of gravel, mesh, then 2-4 in of ecoearth. I drilled holes in the foam wall of the water feature thinking this would help the water in the drainage layer stay clean.

Trooper: are ammerages thumbnail/easy?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

74F is PERFECT temp, MOST darts should not be held above 80F for any extended amount of time nor should there be sudden increases or decreases in temp.

also i agree the water feature should be considerably downsized if you considering darts. they dont need any standing water, and its really just sacrificing usable space in an enclosure thats already pretty small.

james


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

tinctacular said:


> Thanks for all the replies!
> Tony: good to know about mixing species and such. Looks like I'm gonna do a pair. I was thinking Suriname cobalts or patricias.
> I'm thinking glass tops with some acrylic diy for some vents
> Tank is in the basement and therm in the tank says 74
> ...


Orchid bark is good to use. Just make sure it is bark and not a mix with perlite and fertilizers. Also some crunched up natural charcoal (can find natural charcoal at Walmart, Lowe's etc).


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## tinctacular (Jul 16, 2011)

*Re: New here....will this work for tincts? (pics)e*

Sounds good. I'll revamp the viv and post pic when it's done!
Btw are fruit flies escaping a problem anyone runs into?


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Since D. tinctorius are not at all aquatic and are a terrestrial species, it would be better for the frogs to fill in the water feature to provide more terrestrial space. Frogs needs should always trump other aesthetics.

Good luck in the hobby, Richard.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: New here....will this work for tincts? (pics)e*



tinctacular said:


> Sounds good. I'll revamp the viv and post pic when it's done!
> Btw are fruit flies escaping a problem anyone runs into?


You might see people on here talk about "fly-proofing" a tank so that fruit flies can't escape through gaps in the lid, etc. and get out. For some people, they have a whole frog room dedicated to the tanks so it isn't a huge deal if some get out here or there. The problem might be if you have a display tank in the living room or kitchen or something, where they can annoy other people. Honestly I've gotten good at ignoring them and always never leaving food out for more than a few hours near a frog tank (I don't like little baby flies crawling through my food...) but if there are a lot, I can put out a cup with a bit of media in it or something to attract them near the escape point, and then dump it every few days to get rid of the flies and any eggs/ larvae they have laid in the media before they can complete a breeding cycle. This seems to work pretty well.
Bryan


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

For viv substrate I like to use a mix of orchid bark, long fiber Sphagnum, peat or coco fiber, and some kitty litter (All natural clay) You could also mix in tree fern fiber , leaves, pea gravel.
I am noticing that the plants arent too fond of the coco fiber and am considering using peat moss (Despite that I think it stinks LOL) as a substitute.


Todd


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## tinctacular (Jul 16, 2011)

mk, so per the advice of some members i revamped the viv in the beginning of the post. i have shrinked the water portion considerably and slowed the flow way down. i also added 1/4 of a bag of orchid park to add some air to the substrate. i also spent three hours driving around town picking up some plants
I made a list from the good viv. plants thread and went shopping. saddly lowes was probly the best out of all of them. 

well here are the new pics. let me know what you all think! ohh, and the water level is now around 1 in. and i just misted so the soil will look wet.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

*Re: New here....will this work for tincts? (pics)e*



tinctacular said:


> Sounds good. I'll revamp the viv and post pic when it's done!
> Btw are fruit flies escaping a problem anyone runs into?


haha yeah i've had one or two escape on me.


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

tinctacular said:


> mk, so per the advice of some members i revamped the viv in the beginning of the post. i have shrinked the water portion considerably and slowed the flow way down. i also added 1/4 of a bag of orchid park to add some air to the substrate. i also spent three hours driving around town picking up some plants
> I made a list from the good viv. plants thread and went shopping. saddly lowes was probly the best out of all of them.
> 
> well here are the new pics. let me know what you all think! ohh, and the water level is now around 1 in. and i just misted so the soil will look wet.


That viv looks 100% more Dart suitable! great job with the quick turn-around! As for the species you are considering, I keep Cobalts, and I absolutely love them. Some can be more shy than others when young, but all will eventually prove VERY visible inhabitants! Best of luck!

JBear


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

I just realized I forgot to mention something. The water feature will not be utilized in breeding other than to rehydrate after "dowsing" the eggs. The flowing water will be a deterant in tad deposition. You should look to incorporate some hidden(sumersed into the substrate), large sized pill jars that will hold a fair amount of (fresh)water.

JBear


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## tinctacular (Jul 16, 2011)

sweet, thanks for the replies! glad its frog approved  ill try to fit some speciman cups in the substrate for breeding purposes. a friend has some tinct. "patricia" and a fruit fly culture he's willing to start me off with.


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi tinctacular,

Congrats on taking the helpful hints (not everybody does). The habitat is greatly improved for terrestrial darts. The only addition I would make would be to add leaflitter to the viv. The mosses are attractive, but darts generally perform best with leaflitter underfoot.

There are many sponsors here who offer cleaned, sterilized, leaflitter (which is the best way to go).

Good luck! Richard.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Very nice improvement! Ill back up what Rich said and also add keep an eye on the bromeliad as well as that big leaved plant (Looks sorta like a Kalanchoe) Neither tend to do well in the vivariums. Also the Selaginella uncinata (Which I suspect if you got it at a big chain store it was from Exotic Angels collection and mislabeled as Selaginella martensii >.<) Where you have it it will probably do okay as long as the light isnt way too bright, but make sure it stays well hydrated. dehydration, low humidity and heat are all really easy ways to kill most Selaginellas (Save for the xeric species)

Again, wonderful improvement! Good job on taking advice, as Rich said, not many people do anymore.


Todd


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## PeanutbuttER (Jan 1, 2011)

Dartfrogfreak said:


> keep an eye on the bromeliad as well as that big leaved plant (Looks sorta like a Kalanchoe) Neither tend to do well in the vivariums.


I've had a kalanchoe in my viv for a while and to my very big surprise it isn't doing that bad. I just pulled it out a week ago when I redid the viv, but it was producing new leaves and looked fairly content. I was tempted to leave it in, but it takes up a fair amount of floor space with its big leaves.

However, I don't think that's a kalanchoe in the picture, but just wanted to share my experience with them.


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## tinctacular (Jul 16, 2011)

Thanks you all for the compliments! I'll be ordering a bag of ok leaves from josh's in a couple days. I was kindve worried about the large leafed guy on the left but it was on sale at loses for .50cents! What are the signs of a dying plant? Loss of color, withering, slumping? 

I'll post pics of my tints when I get them in a week or two. Just have to make the top fly proof. Btw, this is a question for those reefers on here. I have an aqua illumination on a drag tank I'm switching to the viv. Question is: do you think the thunderstorm feature would bug the frogs?


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