# Can i get a worm i.d.



## WONTON SALLY

found these on my driftwood piece, have no idea what they are-can you help?


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## Okapi

Nemerteans? 
Nemerteans


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## tclipse

bye bye springtails...


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## WONTON SALLY

so it seems they are harmless, just worried about them getting on the frogs.


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## Okapi

They will compete with your frogs for food, and when their population explodes, will be all over your tank...


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## MrFusion

I hate those nasty little things. Worms just give me the heebie jeebies. Take your frogs out and you can dry ice bomb them out of existence.


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## DannyMeister

I am very sorry 

I cannot get rid of these things. They came in on plants I bought from a member here, I believe. Now I have no micro-fauna to speak of, just wriggling worms on every surface. I learned my lesson about not quarantining plants!


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## frogface

Yea, soak everything in bleach! 

I got those in a tank, recently. All plants were soaked in bleach, but, I did add some dried leaves without boiling/baking. I'm thinking that's where they came from, but, I don't know. Disgusting little worms. I broke down the tank, bleached the heck out of it. Set it back up for my new tree frogs (little plug for my very cool tree frogs) and I haven't seen any more of them.


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## WONTON SALLY

well, since tearing down the tank and bleaching it isn't an option i guess i will have to CO2 bomb it.


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## Okapi

good luck, keep us updated


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## froggymike

You may have to bomb it several times in a row. I read somewhere on here they are almost impossible to get rid of with bombing. I plan on tearing down the one tank that has them in it and rebuilding it. Plants, wood, cork are all trashed in my 40 corner tank. Keep me posted on how the bombing is going.


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## Lance

With my experience with these is an utter pain in the ass. Tips for controling them. Fill the false bottom section and your substrate and leaf litter for a good week, co2 bomb every few days for a span of a week, repeat in 2 weeks.


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## Okapi

I wonder if these would work?
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants/74085-slug-snail-biocontrol.html


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## DannyMeister

WONTON SALLY said:


> well, since tearing down the tank and bleaching it isn't an option i guess i will have to CO2 bomb it.


I wish you luck! 4 bombings in 4 weeks didn't work for me, by the way


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## Pumilo

Make sure you bomb it properly. Davecalk is the last word in CO2 bombing. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/57367-building-using-co2-generator.html


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## Ed

frogface said:


> Yea, soak everything in bleach!
> 
> I got those in a tank, recently. All plants were soaked in bleach, but, I did add some dried leaves without boiling/baking. I'm thinking that's where they came from, but, I don't know. Disgusting little worms. I broke down the tank, bleached the heck out of it. Set it back up for my new tree frogs (little plug for my very cool tree frogs) and I haven't seen any more of them.


If for example, you are placing bromeliads into a tank that can hold water in the cups, then the nemerteans can avoid the bleach by sheltering in the areas that prevent water from draining from the bromeliad (where the leaves overlap..... 

Ed


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## BethInAK

I'm sorry Andy, this is a total bummer. Sending WormFree thoughts.


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## Venutus1

WONTON SALLY said:


> so it seems they are harmless, just worried about them getting on the frogs.


I have learned to embrace mine. Since they are not going away anytime soon.

They can be smooshed and fed to tadpoles. At least they like them.

Hey....I heard that de-wormer will kill them?
But I don't have any more details.
Maybe somebody does? 
Would misting a viv with pancur (sp?) dissolved in water or something like that work w/o harming the frogs? Anyone know?


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## WONTON SALLY

Okapi said:


> good luck, keep us updated


 
once i figure the best method using vinegar and baking soda i will post the process.


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## Okapi

Pumilo said:


> Make sure you bomb it properly. Davecalk is the last word in CO2 bombing. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/care-sheets/57367-building-using-co2-generator.html


Pumilo is right, check out that thread


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## WONTON SALLY

Okapi said:


> Pumilo is right, check out that thread


 
will do, is that the only way to go?


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## Okapi

there are many ways, but that way is cheap, easy, and proven effective.


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## DannyMeister

After 6 bombings using that method, I'd have to go back a little on the "easy" if you use vinegar/baking soda method. Maybe I'm just too much of a perfectionist on waiting for all the bubbling of each charge to end before starting the next one, but it takes HOURS for me to do a bombing of a 20 gallon tank. I guess my advice would be to just shoot for overestimating how much you need, and then don't be as picky as I was, so that a little gas escaping isn't a big deal. Otherwise you'll come to hate it and end up at a paintball shop.

Though it didn't get rid of the nemerteans in my 29 gallon, the method seems more effective for slugs. Two separate bombings with a week in between wiped out the slugs and snails in my 20 gallon.


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## WONTON SALLY

DannyMeister said:


> After 6 bombings using that method, I'd have to go back a little on the "easy" if you use vinegar/baking soda method. Maybe I'm just too much of a perfectionist on waiting for all the bubbling of each charge to end before starting the next one, but it takes HOURS for me to do a bombing of a 20 gallon tank. I guess my advice would be to just shoot for overestimating how much you need, and then don't be as picky as I was, so that a little gas escaping isn't a big deal. Otherwise you'll come to hate it and end up at a paintball shop.
> 
> Though it didn't get rid of the nemerteans in my 29 gallon, the method seems more effective for slugs. Two separate bombings with a week in between wiped out the slugs and snails in my 20 gallon.


 
well i only want to do it once as i don't want to stress the cobalts, what does it cost to get a CO2 tank from a paintball shop? anyone think they would let me rent one with/without a deposit on it?


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## WONTON SALLY

also how can i discharge the CO2 tank without a paintball gun?


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## DannyMeister

The before mentioned thread has some info on the CO2 canisters and releasing the gas from them. you'll probably want to get a regulator valve of some sort. I actually spotted the equipment at my local Wal-Mart.


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## frogface

I don't recall if this was mentioned (and too lazy to read back) but dry ice will work, as well.


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## WONTON SALLY

frogface said:


> I don't recall if this was mentioned (and too lazy to read back) but dry ice will work, as well.


 
i haven't been able to find it locally.


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## WONTON SALLY

DannyMeister said:


> The before mentioned thread has some info on the CO2 canisters and releasing the gas from them. you'll probably want to get a regulator valve of some sort. I actually spotted the equipment at my local Wal-Mart.


 
what is this equipment you found at wal-mart?


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## tclipse

WONTON SALLY said:


> *well i only want to do it once as i don't want to stress the cobalts*, what does it cost to get a CO2 tank from a paintball shop? anyone think they would let me rent one with/without a deposit on it?


whoawhoawhoa... you will be removing the frogs first, right?


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## pnwpdf

You know, if you have friends who keep planted aquariums you would probably be able to come across co2 equipment very easy. Or friends who own restaurants or bars. Or who brew their own beer. I happen to have a couple of co2 tanks, a regulator, and a viv with nemerteans. Maybe I'll put those frogs in a quarantine tank and try it out. If nothing else, the couple of snails I have in that viv will die.

If you want to know how to discharge co2 without a paintball gun, you'll just need a regulator to attach to the co2 cylinder and some airline tubing for an aquarium. CO2 cylinder --> Regulator --> Airline Tubing --> Viv.

You'd want to be careful about letting too much gas out though, I'd guess.


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## Steverd

Interesting thread. I have a complete CO2 setup under one of my planted aquariums. I own the tank and cost about $10 to fill, it would last for months.

Now I have another use for it, just in case. Also most of our local grocery stores do sell dry ice here.

Steve


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## WONTON SALLY

tclipse said:


> whoawhoawhoa... you will be removing the frogs first, right?


 
what it should have said (stressing the cobalt's from the move) not the actual CO2 bombing.


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## WONTON SALLY

pnwpdf said:


> You know, if you have friends who keep planted aquariums you would probably be able to come across co2 equipment very easy. Or friends who own restaurants or bars. Or who brew their own beer. I happen to have a couple of co2 tanks, a regulator, and a viv with nemerteans. Maybe I'll put those frogs in a quarantine tank and try it out. If nothing else, the couple of snails I have in that viv will die.
> 
> If you want to know how to discharge co2 without a paintball gun, you'll just need a regulator to attach to the co2 cylinder and some airline tubing for an aquarium. CO2 cylinder --> Regulator --> Airline Tubing --> Viv.
> 
> You'd want to be careful about letting too much gas out though, I'd guess.


i believe you need the regulator only if you want to adjust the CO2 coming out, otherwise you can just slowly open the valve and do it that way otherwise, let me know if I am wrong.


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## DannyMeister

Yes, you are right. Any simple valve will do just fine. It is just nice if you find some way of knowing approximately how much CO2 you have let out of the tank. The bubble method might work for that.

I checked Walmart.com to see if I could spot what I saw locally before. It may or may not have been this: Walmart.com: JT IVT CO2 Tank, 20 oz: Hunting but it seemed like the one I saw had a valve. You are better off just going to an aquarium or paintball shop though, since you are going to need to get a refill to fill up the tank anyways. A better deal than the walmart one is the one Dave already linked to in his thread that has a remote included. Walmart.com: JT IVT CO2 Tank, 20 oz: Hunting

We also have a Coke bottling plant and distribution center in town... wonder how much it is to get it from them


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## WONTON SALLY

Coiled Remote and CO2 Tank Combo
We offer you a choice of 9 ounce or 20 ounce tank and standard coiled remote or coiled remote with slide check. 

not sure which one to get the standard coiled remote or the coiled remote with slide check?

i will get the 20oz, also if i buy the package above will i need anything else?


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## frogface

This happened yesterday but I've been too upset to type it. 

In my newly cleaned, sanitized, redecorated with all new stuff (plants bleached, leaves boiled, no broms for worms to hide in), 26 bow front (which had nemerteans previously), I discovered a new batch (appear to be young) climbing up the glass.

I'm pissed. 

Maybe the only solution is death by fire


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## WONTON SALLY

frogface said:


> This happened yesterday but I've been too upset to type it.
> 
> In my newly cleaned, sanitized, redecorated with all new stuff (plants bleached, leaves boiled, no broms for worms to hide in), 26 bow front (which had nemerteans previously), I discovered a new batch (appear to be young) climbing up the glass.
> 
> I'm pissed.
> 
> Maybe the only solution is death by fire


 
so i guess you didn't CO2 bomb anything?


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## frogface

WONTON SALLY said:


> so i guess you didn't CO2 bomb anything?


No. I emptied the tank. Dried it out. Washed it out with bleach. Rinsed it. Dried it again. Threw away the substrate and plants. Rebuilt with new stuff. Bleached the new plants and boiled the new leaves. 

Somehow those wormed survived, tucked away on something. Maybe the siliconed corners of the tank? Dunno.


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## Steverd

frogface said:


> No. I emptied the tank. Dried it out. Washed it out with bleach. Rinsed it. Dried it again. Threw away the substrate and plants. Rebuilt with new stuff. Bleached the new plants and boiled the new leaves.
> 
> Somehow those wormed survived, tucked away on something. Maybe the siliconed corners of the tank? Dunno.


arghh, how frustrating.. I did this once when one of my reef tanks had flat worms. There must be something that eats the worm? Deformer? Worm trap or something else to wipe them out???

Steve


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## Ed

frogface said:


> No. I emptied the tank. Dried it out. Washed it out with bleach. Rinsed it. Dried it again. Threw away the substrate and plants. Rebuilt with new stuff. Bleached the new plants and boiled the new leaves.
> 
> Somehow those wormed survived, tucked away on something. Maybe the siliconed corners of the tank? Dunno.


If there are thin loose areas of silicone on the glass, those can readily shelter eggs or small nemerteans or other unwanted problems (or under the plastic lip of a converted tank... 

Ed


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## frogface

Ed said:


> If there are thin loose areas of silicone on the glass, those can readily shelter eggs or small nemerteans or other unwanted problems (or under the plastic lip of a converted tank...
> 
> Ed


Ed, do you think CO2 bombing it while empty would have helped?


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## Ed

frogface said:


> Ed, do you think CO2 bombing it while empty would have helped?


It depends on how long you are willing to leave it sealed up... keep in mind that many soil dwelling animals have high tolerances to CO2. I would try keeping it sealed up for at least 3 days and repeat again in two weeks (and possibly a third time). 

Ed


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## WONTON SALLY

Ed said:


> It depends on how long you are willing to leave it sealed up... keep in mind that many soil dwelling animals have high tolerances to CO2. I would try keeping it sealed up for at least 3 days and repeat again in two weeks (and possibly a third time).
> 
> Ed


so it seems these are very, very difficult to get rid of, is there anything else in the hobby this hard to get rid of?


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## Ed

WONTON SALLY said:


> so it seems these are very, very difficult to get rid of, is there anything else in the hobby this hard to get rid of?


Coccidia 

Ed


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## frogface

Well crap. Ok going to make a new tank for these guys and then sort out the worm issue in this one. 

I have another tank that had a sick frog in it (you know the one, Ed). I've been trying to get up the courage to clean it out to reuse it. Now, I think I'll just throw the whole thing away. Luckily it's only a 10g so I'm not out a lot of money. 

I think I might toss a sick frog's tank even if it was bigger, now, since I clearly am not cleaning and sanitizing the tanks as thoroughly as I thought I was.


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## BethInAK

#$%#$% worms.
This is a bummer thread.
Sending you both worm-free thoughts.


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## WONTON SALLY

BethInAK said:


> #$%#$% worms.
> This is a bummer thread.
> Sending you both worm-free thoughts.


 
yes agreed a bummer, but also quite informative/learning as well.


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## WONTON SALLY

picked out 2 more today, one off the glass and one off the driftwood. i also one a auction today for 2 CO2 bottles-12oz and 20oz; new off ebay. so once i get a coiled remote with PSI gauge i will BLOW this tank with CO2


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## frogface

WONTON SALLY said:


> picked out 2 more today, one off the glass and one off the driftwood. i also one a auction today for 2 CO2 bottles-12oz and 20oz; new off ebay. so once i get a coiled remote with PSI gauge i will BLOW this tank with CO2


Take pics


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## Steverd

How about a trap like this? I used these in my reef tanks before to trap worms. maybe it can be modified, or baited with something for these worms???

Trap-Em Aquarium Pest Control


Steve


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## WONTON SALLY

frogface said:


> Take pics


the worms get tossed outside to dry out if you are refering to the bottles and whatnot they probably won't be here until early next week.


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## WONTON SALLY

Steverd said:


> How about a trap like this? I used these in my reef tanks before to trap worms. maybe it can be modified, or baited with something for these worms???
> 
> Trap-Em Aquarium Pest Control
> 
> 
> Steve


 
i'm not sure that it would even work--anyone else?


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## Ed

The traps work because the bristle worms can follow the scent of the bait back through the water. Nemerteans move around until they get close enough to the invertebrate to sense them and then target them with the stylet. I'm not sure how you would overcome the lack of a good scent trail, and needing to keep the invertebrates used as bait in the trap in a way that would trap the nemerteans.. 

Ed


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## WONTON SALLY

Ed said:


> The traps work because the bristle worms can follow the scent of the bait back through the water. Nemerteans move around until they get close enough to the invertebrate to sense them and then target them with the stylet. I'm not sure how you would overcome the lack of a good scent trail, and needing to keep the invertebrates used as bait in the trap in a way that would trap the nemerteans..
> 
> Ed


 
Hey ED, thanks for the response, but i do know that these somewhat work in reef tanks if the conditions are right from my Reefing Days as well. I wasn't sure how it would work in our tanks for the PDF's we have as you mentioned the same as well. I wouldn't know what to bait them as well just as the scent trail would be hard to duplicate IMO.


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## B-NICE

It is funny what pops up in vivs. I found a baby snail in my viv over the weekend.


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## WONTON SALLY

B-NICE said:


> It is funny what pops up in vivs. I found a baby snail in my viv over the weekend.


there are a few you don't want to have in the tank peroid.


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## Gnarly

I just found these worms in not only one, but two of my vivs. This thread is very disheartening.
How quickly will these pests destroy an established community of springtails?


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## B-NICE

How do these things get in the viv? Its kind of amazing.


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## WONTON SALLY

B-NICE said:


> How do these things get in the viv? Its kind of amazing.


 
Usually hitch hikers on items you introduced into the viv, only thing it could have been from was some leaf litter i put into the viv to replace the more rotted ones. The leaf litter has been in a ziploc bag for 4+ months now, but when i first got it i zapped it in the microwave for four times of 30secs each time, but i threw them back in the same bag. Until that it had been at least 2+months before i introduced anything back into the viv that i can remember.


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## Ed

Gnarly said:


> I just found these worms in not only one, but two of my vivs. This thread is very disheartening.
> How quickly will these pests destroy an established community of springtails?


It depends on how quickly thier population booms.. typically within a few months. If they are in one or two of your tanks, there is good chance they are in more of them particularly if you used cuttings from one tank to another or do enclosure care without washing your hands and disinfecting any scissors or other materials that have been in one enclosure before going to the next enclosure... 

Ed


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## Ed

WONTON SALLY said:


> Usually hitch hikers on items you introduced into the viv, only thing it could have been from was some leaf litter i put into the viv to replace the more rotted ones. The leaf litter has been in a ziploc bag for 4+ months now, but when i first got it i zapped it in the microwave for four times of 30secs each time, but i threw them back in the same bag. Until that it had been at least 2+months before i introduced anything back into the viv that i can remember.


I'm more inclined to think they got moved with plants or wood than with leaf litter particularly if you heated it... 

Ed


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## B-NICE

WONTON SALLY said:


> Usually hitch hikers on items you introduced into the viv, only thing it could have been from was some leaf litter i put into the viv to replace the more rotted ones. The leaf litter has been in a ziploc bag for 4+ months now, but when i first got it i zapped it in the microwave for four times of 30secs each time, but i threw them back in the same bag. Until that it had been at least 2+months before i introduced anything back into the viv that i can remember.


the snail was on my leaf litter too, but i bleached them and baked them. baked the leaves at 450 degrees.


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## Gnarly

Ed said:


> It depends on how quickly thier population booms.. typically within a few months. If they are in one or two of your tanks, there is good chance they are in more of them particularly if you used cuttings from one tank to another or do enclosure care without washing your hands and disinfecting any scissors or other materials that have been in one enclosure before going to the next enclosure...
> 
> Ed


Ah, thanks for the info Ed. Looks like I get to do a lot of clean up and learn a valuable lesson.


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## WONTON SALLY

Ed said:


> I'm more inclined to think they got moved with plants or wood than with leaf litter particularly if you heated it...
> 
> Ed


 
must have been, then it took them a few months to show up with whatever they were in?


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## Venutus1

Gnarly said:


> I just found these worms in not only one, but two of my vivs. This thread is very disheartening.
> How quickly will these pests destroy an established community of springtails?


UGH. pretty damn fast, Gnarly.

Now I just keep dumping springs in from cultures. Feed 'em all... what the heck.

This is stating the obvious, but...
I have found if you feed flies in the evening, when the lights go off, they come out to get them.
When they are all up on the sides and top glass... I just shoo the frogs out of the way and wipe the walls down with paper towels. 
This can get a bunch of them out at a whack.
(Cleans the glass anyway.  )

By doing this diligently every few days, I have kept them at somewhat acceptable levels. Somewhat.
At least the viv glass is always clean.

Having battled bristle worms in salt tanks too... 
for years ...I have now taken a more laid back approach to stuff like this than some folks do.

hmmm...I would like to try "tainting" fruit flies with a wormer and see if that doesn't keep them in check, but haven't figured out quite how yet without affecting the frogs.
I believe I read somewhere that wormers (pancur, etc.) will kill them.

Ed? have you got any ideas on that??

Good Luck Wonton, I am routing for you to find a way to conquer the worms.

Anybody that could come up with a method to TARGET the worms and kill them with minimal disruption to frogs and the viv would make a bundle $.

Todd


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## jkooiman

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/identification-forum/55894-worm-id.html

JVK


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## Ed

Dusting the flies with a wormer isn't the solution as the flies groom off the worming agent and then nemerteans can also feed on the flies without ingesting the fly (and thus the wormer). If they contact it, it may kill them but drenching the tank isn't a solution as any sheltered nemerteans (or more resistent nemertean) are going to be unaffected and all you are doing is selecting for resistence. 
Quarantining plants and using cuttings off of the quarantined plants is probably the best route to prevent them from colonizing tanks. Leaf litter is often targeted as a source but terrestrial nemerteans are restricted to tropical and subtropical regions of the world which would restrict thier appearence via leaf litter from other regions however, virtually all of the plants used in the enclosures originate from tropical or subtropical regions.... 

Ed


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## WONTON SALLY

they just randomly show up, the ones that do show up are decent size clost to a 1/2 inch in length.


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## marylanddartfrog

WONTON SALLY said:


> found these on my driftwood piece, have no idea what they are-can you help?




Off subject but what kind of shrooms are those in the corner of the first pic?they look neat.


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