# Calling male vanzolini



## hyla23 (Apr 27, 2008)

My probable pair turned out to be two females and they keep laying eggs.


----------



## Lukeomelas (Mar 15, 2005)

Typically, females will not lay eggs unless there is a male present. Can you describe what the eggs look like? I take it you haven't heard any calling? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Is it possablethe eggs are going bad what are you supplamenting with


----------



## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I have bred many, many Vanzo's I have yet to have a female lay Egg's without a male present. It is possible you have a pair with the male on the quiet side, I have had Males just give off a little chirp here and there and if you don't spend a lot of time near them you would not notice. 

Scott


----------



## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

I have 2 confirmed females as well that lost their male well over a year ago. I have never seen any eggs laid since he passed. 

Plausible explanations (just off the top of my head):

1) You have a male, but cant hear his call

2) Your not providing a complete diet (dusting, varied prey items etc..)

3) Your male is not fertilizing the eggs

4) Your confusing what you think are eggs with something else

-Willow


----------



## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

the male doesnt fertlize the eggs. the male secretes 1st and the female lays on top. ill see if i can find the link that ed said this in.


----------



## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

here you go

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/br...391-auratus-breeding-male-secretes-first.html


----------



## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Woah dude I think you are confused.

No sperm + egg= no fertilization (think of the eggs obligates feed their tads; haploid, meiosis II)

Sperm + egg= fertilized egg (barring other factors; diploid zygote)

Without sperm there is no fertilization of the egg; female pdf's do not produce sperm and eggs.

Since females don't have sperm, eggs are not fertilized until the introduction of sperm (talking about pdf's), and males secrete sperm, males DO fertilize the eggs.

The thread you posted talks about the steps in the fertilization process. You are correct (according to the thread) that the male secretes sperm first and then the female deposits the eggs over the sperm. 

Regardless of who deposits their chromosomes first, a pdf egg is unfertilized until it meets sperm.

Analogy:

A pb&j sandwich is a pb&j sandwich regardless if the peanut butter is on the top or the bottom of the sandwich.

Frog Embryology

-Willow



whitethumb said:


> the male doesnt fertlize the eggs. the male secretes 1st and the female lays on top. ill see if i can find the link that ed said this in.


----------



## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

never mind


----------



## rahunt2 (Jan 4, 2009)

Hello Hyla23.
Reading this post it sounds like most people think you have a pair that is still working things out. If you do in fact turn out to have two females, I have a spare male (calling very loud) that I am willing to trade for a female. I am not interested in selling though. I am in Fort Wayne so meeting would not be a huge stretch. If you are still looking for a male now or in the future feel free to contact me.


----------



## hyla23 (Apr 27, 2008)

To everyone I dust all my food with repashy calcium dust and the multivitamin dust. I also 100% positive they are eggs. I breed vents and sirensis as well as benedicta so I am pretty sure I know what eggs look like. I have not heard any calling and I have had the two animals for almost 2 years and for the past 6 months I find eggs that just rot and go bad. I have tried to pull the eggs thinking it may be something in the tank that is making them rot and they just never develop. I have left eggs in the cage for a month and nothing happens. So that is why I came to the conclusion of having two females. They both resemble females to me more of a round body with a blunter head. If they are sexed like other ranitomeya species then that is what I just think but can never be sure.


----------



## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

I hate to continue to drag this out in the wanted section... but it sounds like your frogs could be suffering from vitamin A deficiency. That is a frequent cause for bad eggs. Adding it to your regimen could help fix this problem.

There are many threads on this... so I would recommend reading up to get a full understanding of it. Most people will recommend dusting with vitamin a once a week for a few weeks and then switching to a once-a-month regimen.


----------



## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

OP requested this thread to be moved here so the discussion could continue.


----------

