# Epiweb/hygrolon drip wall question



## SLiK JiM (Oct 10, 2011)

This is probably a stupid question, but I will ask it anyway...

If you create an epiweb/hygrolon dripwall background and have water constantly running down it and then into the substrate, won't the substrate always stay quite damp and boggy (if only in the area immediately under the dripwall)? What can you do to deal with this section/problem?

Thanks all


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I'm getting ready to do a drip wall myself, and I'm going to try the gravel technique. I'm going to build up an area separating the substrate from the gravel with GS and fill the area under the drip wall with black gravel that way the water 'should' drip back into the false bottom without touching the substrate. Maybe someone could chime in who has actually done this.. because that idea may change for me if I see a simpler way to handle it.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have attempted several variations of a drip wall/waterfall. In the end, all but one failed. The one that hasn't yet failed (it's been 6 months so far. My longest time yet) is over the water section of a 100 gallon paludarium. This one has worked like a charm, so far. Since I haven't yet come up with a working drip wall over land; I can only tell you what doesn't work. I have tried the gravel technique you speak of. It was, without a doubt, the closest I've come to a working system. What needs to be added to this style, in my opinion, is a way to seperate the sides of the drip wall from contacting anything that wicks water. Great stuff (GS) foam seems the obvious choice here. The problem comes from how it's finished. I used silicone topped with coconut fiber. The coco fiber, however, wicks water. Anything that gets wet will ultimately wick water to everything that it touches. In my GS example, the water wicked across the coco fiber, into the adjacen sides, then down to the substrate. It is my opinion that water walls, while very attractive, simply won't work in smaller vivariums, and without being over a water feature. If someone has gotten one to work without the aforementioned 2 qualities, I would love to hear about it. Good luck! When a way is found that works, I would love to try it again.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

aspidites73 said:


> I have attempted several variations of a drip wall/waterfall. In the end, all but one failed. The one that hasn't yet failed (it's been 6 months so far. My longest time yet) is over the water section of a 100 gallon paludarium. This one has worked like a charm, so far. Since I haven't yet come up with a working drip wall over land; I can only tell you what doesn't work. I have tried the gravel technique you speak of. It was, without a doubt, the closest I've come to a working system. What needs to be added to this style, in my opinion, is a way to seperate the sides of the drip wall from contacting anything that wicks water. Great stuff (GS) foam seems the obvious choice here. The problem comes from how it's finished. I used silicone topped with coconut fiber. The coco fiber, however, wicks water. Anything that gets wet will ultimately wick water to everything that it touches. In my GS example, the water wicked across the coco fiber, into the adjacen sides, then down to the substrate. It is my opinion that water walls, while very attractive, simply won't work in smaller vivariums, and without being over a water feature. If someone has gotten one to work without the aforementioned 2 qualities, I would love to hear about it. Good luck! When a way is found that works, I would love to try it again.


With my specific plan, I'm going to build the GS up around 1 1/2-2" higher than the substrate and carve it into a small rock wall of sorts. That should be high enough to keep any splashing (which would be minimal with a drip wall) or wicking into the substrate. At the same time it should be low enough to be covered by any plants that are planted in the area. Any area that might show through would give a natural rocky look. Of course, like stated, this may take up quite a bit of room from a smaller viv. I'm planning this on a 36x18x36 so you may want to take that into consideration when planning. 

Another idea which I used around the rim of some of my pond areas, I used the black foam GS for fountains and ponds. Instead of covering the silicone in any wickable substance, I smeared the silicone onto the GS to add a smoothing texture while waterproofing the area. It won't wick that way.. but if the pump for your drip wall is too powerful you could still have some splashback from the water hitting the gravel.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Moriko said:


> I'm getting ready to do a drip wall myself, and I'm going to try the gravel technique. I'm going to build up an area separating the substrate from the gravel with GS and fill the area under the drip wall with black gravel that way the water 'should' drip back into the false bottom without touching the substrate. Maybe someone could chime in who has actually done this.. because that idea may change for me if I see a simpler way to handle it.


Here is a diagram of the gravel method...









It works you just need to build in pump access if you aren't using a lifting pump like a "tom's lifting pump". Also I'd make the gravel strip 1.5-2 inches wide at least, sometimes plant leave and stuff butt up against the wall and cause run off down into the main substrate area. I would also fill that dam area in with less gravel height then substrate height so the water can't wick stright across, or even splash as much. Using something like leca back there might be better then gravel, maybe lava rock would be another good choice.

Here is a simple 10gal that used this method. There may be more pics in my 2 flickr galleries in my signature that are helpful...









Here is mid construction...look close and you can see the clear plastic strip running across the back to act as a substrate dam.


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## SLiK JiM (Oct 10, 2011)

Cool, thanks for all the information, it's all really useful.

So, I am thinking something like this:



If I fill the 'gravel channel' (as I will call it for now) with hygrolon then the water shouldn't drip off into the substrate but should wick slowly down and drain out. I can then fill that channel with java moss (which I've seen elsewhere grows like crazy in on wet hygrolon) that should mask the divide. Sound good?

Next issue that I have just thought about, if I am using hygrolon lianas, won't they also wick quite a lot of water into the substrate and create damp patches?


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## zachxbass (Apr 21, 2008)

aspidites73 said:


> . I have tried the gravel technique you speak of. It was, without a doubt, the closest I've come to a working system. What needs to be added to this style, in my opinion, is a way to seperate the sides of the drip wall from contacting anything that wicks water. Great stuff (GS) foam seems the obvious choice here. The problem comes from how it's finished. I used silicone topped with coconut fiber. The coco fiber, however, wicks water. Anything that gets wet will ultimately wick water to everything that it touches. In my GS example, the water wicked across the coco fiber, into the adjacen sides, then down to the substrate. It is my opinion that water walls, while very attractive, simply won't work in smaller vivariums, and without being over a water feature. If someone has gotten one to work without the aforementioned 2 qualities, I would love to hear about it. Good luck! When a way is found that works, I would love to try it again.



Maybe if instead of using great stuff covered in silicone/coco, you could cover it with drylock? That wouldn't wick water would it?

I'm making a drip wall in my new vivarium with tree fern panel as the wall, then dripping into a pond, but thought of filling the majority of the pond with gravel. Like just make it real shallow. (1/2-1" deep). I was going to use wood as a divider between the water/substrate, but I'm now reconsidering this. I'm thinking maybe some fake rock feature covered in drylock may work. Perhaps grout would not wick too much? I'm kinda rambling so hopefully you can pull out some information from this post. I look forward to seeing more responses so I can avoid any mistakes before I get to this stage in my build

Edit: re-read the post I was quoting, and realized you were speaking of the side of the drip wall touching your gs/coco background. I think that drylock along the edges may still be a viable option. 
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2


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## SLiK JiM (Oct 10, 2011)

Was having another thinking session today, would I need to make a gravel trap if I don't run a constant drip wall? Hygrolon is meant to hold 280% water, so would it be sufficient just to mist it? My thoughts are that it will not likely become fully saturated from misting and will retain water rather that let it wick away into the substrate, therefore keeping the substrate OK and the hygrolon suitably moist?

Thoughts?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

SLiK JiM said:


> Was having another thinking session today, would I need to make a gravel trap if I don't run a constant drip wall? Hygrolon is meant to hold 280% water, so would it be sufficient just to mist it? My thoughts are that it will not likely become fully saturated from misting and will retain water rather that let it wick away into the substrate, therefore keeping the substrate OK and the hygrolon suitably moist?
> 
> Thoughts?


I personally wouldn't ever run a constant drip wall, rather the pump would be on an interval timer set to come on probably once or twice a day for a few minutes.

If you have misters directed at your wall you may find you don't need a drip wall unless you are running it as part of a waterfall. Having small waterfalls built into the background would be my only use for a constant drip wall...but then it wouldn't really be a drip wall...it would be a waterfall


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