# Springtales In Established Viv



## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

I've been reading about springtales lately and some of the benefits they can offer to a viv system, but I was wondering if they can be added to an established system, one with established plants and frogs already in?

If so, any tips to follow?


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## verbal (Sep 8, 2004)

Absolutely! Just feed your frogs with springtails daily. Those that avoid being eaten will multiply in your leaf litter and eat the decomposing plant material in you tank. I fyou need help with culturing them, just let us know


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Yes, they can, but the frogs are gonna eat them like crazy. Id try and add them into the viv at night, with the lights off, to give them a chance to run for cover. You can mix the springtail culture into the soil somewhere, or, what I do, leave an oak leaf on top of the soil in the spring culture, and put a piece of banana on it. In a day or so, the springtails will swarm it and the leaf can easily be used to dump the springs in the viv.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

I did something recently that I realy like, I made a small part of the background of a tank into a 'refugium' (only 8-9" tallx 4" wide that tapper toward the bottom) makng it look like a shelf protrusion (specified for the rock I intended to use as the 'lid'). I doesn't take up any floor space but adds a little which is another plus. Every week or so I remove the rock to add some grains for food. The springs are heavily loaded in this viv, there's no way for the frogs to get to the majority and I'm thinking it could even be used to culture flies in for a vacation by puttting a small slice of banna in it, which the flies would have no trouble laying in. I haven't tried this yet but If another thread pops up after I will add the success if any.

By the way I used tree fern as the retaining wall, which (not suprizingly) the frogs have posted right next to.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

stchupa - you mean like Ben Eiben posted here?

Give credit where it's due.

Glad to see the concept working though as I'll be doing it as well on a couple of tanks I'll be building soon.

Thanks Ben - great idea.

s


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2006)

stchupa said:


> I did something recently that I realy like, I made a small part of the background of a tank into a 'refugium' (only 8-9" tallx 4" wide that tapper toward the bottom) makng it look like a shelf protrusion (specified for the rock I intended to use as the 'lid'). I doesn't take up any floor space but adds a little which is another plus. Every week or so I remove the rock to add some grains for food. The springs are heavily loaded in this viv, there's no way for the frogs to get to the majority and I'm thinking it could even be used to culture flies in for a vacation by puttting a small slice of banna in it, which the flies would have no trouble laying in. I haven't tried this yet but If another thread pops up after I will add the success if any.
> 
> By the way I used tree fern as the retaining wall, which (not suprizingly) the frogs have posted right next to.


lets see some pics!


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Scott said:


> stchupa - you mean like Ben Eiben posted here?


I'm not good w/ names, nor am I familiar, are you talking about the net baskets people use and compost/culture in....?



> Give credit where it's due.


I wasn't intent on taking anything away from anyone. Just an expirement more or less. Was thinking I may have had something somewhat unique (if there was such a thing). But then again it doesn't suprise me someone would come up with the same concept.


> Glad to see the concept working though as I'll be doing it as well on a couple of tanks I'll be building soon.
> 
> Thanks Ben - great idea.
> 
> s


I would love to know what exactly you speak of.

I would appreciate it if you or anyone else (that might be willing) to post a link. If I don't know, I'm sure there are others that would be interested. as well.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

switchblade5984 said:


> lets see some pics!


Well, I decided to give in so I'm working on it.

If your willing I would be more than happy to use one of top quality if anyone happens to just have one laying around that they'd lend. :wink:


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

Do you have pictures of the springtale refuge? That sounds like a great idea. Doing it with flies is intreging too.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Other things people have used to give the springtails a refuge are things like walnut shells... springs can get in and out, but the frogs can't. I've also taken to using a coco fiber (not bed-a-beast coco grinds, but actually long stranded fiber) layer in my "substrate". This layer, right under the leaves, is pretty active with introduced springtails, where they can multiply without being eaten... until they go to the surface that is


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Being walnuts are toxic, would this be a problem? I know they kill plants/grass.

Does anyone have a link to Ben's whateverthehellitis?


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

stchupa said:


> Being walnuts are toxic, would this be a problem? I know they kill plants/grass.
> 
> Does anyone have a link to Ben's whateverthehellitis?


maybe try a search for "compost" and look for something written by... Ben???


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

They are the wooden seed pod of the black walnut... here is a link to a crappy pic, but that is what is in a couple of my tanks.

The label "toxic" can often be misleading... it doesn't say how its toxic. We use plenty of toxic plants in our vivs... and as long as the viv inhabitants aren't herbivores, there is no issue. Also similar is the case of the inhabitants of the tank being toxic... my mantellas are WC, toxic, yet the plants in the tank are fine. Now if one of my dogs, on the other hand, wanted a hopping snack or a green chew toy, there might be a problem. I think the "toxic" part of the walnut is the flesh, not the hard protective shell (which is what I use in tanks) or the yummy, and nontoxic, walnuts themselves.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I think there is another dedicated thread to this topic (from BenE that is), but let's start with this.

I'll keep looking.

s


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## DartMan (Nov 29, 2005)

> Being walnuts are toxic, would this be a problem?


I think what you guys/gals are talking about is called, "Juglone".

Here's a link from West Virginia University talking about it: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/hortcult/fr ... kwalnt.htm

Interesting stuff!


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Scott said:


> I think there is another dedicated thread to this topic (from BenE that is), but let's start with this.
> 
> I'll keep looking.
> 
> s


Ahh yes I've seen that? I somewhat suspected you might've been talking about that but wasn't sure. Looks pretty, well at least half of it.

Mostly the same concept except mine doesn't take up floor space and is completely hidden from veiw. I also don't "compost" in it other than what might be pruned in the tank. I would love to see how his compostarium is looking these days. Plan'ts sure looked nice then, no doubt.

Anything you can find is much appreciated.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I think I'm going to ding Ben to see if we can get him to give us an update. The concept is outstanding - I'd love to see the results.

What you're doing sounds alot like Lars Österdahl's "Compost Baskets".

s


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

DartMan said:


> > Being walnuts are toxic, would this be a problem?
> 
> 
> I think what you guys/gals are talking about is called, "Juglone".
> ...


Great contrabution Lon,

It amazes me how people so easily come across this stuff.

I wonder if "allelopathy" can be seen between an animal/plant. Effects (if any) on frogs. If there was a problem it could be avoided by not giving access to the frogs to the drainage layer.

The reason toxic plants don't effect our frogs is because people usually have them to grow, not rotting and leaching substances in their vivs.


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

Scott said:


> What you're doing sounds alot like Lars Österdahl's "Compost Baskets".
> 
> s


Like an integration of both (I guess, best way to decribe w/out pics) except it ramains stationary and a permenant part of the tank.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Yeah - he makes his removable. He'll hang them in a corner and then rotate them in and out of a tank.

I like the permanent aspect better. I wanted to use TFR Panel on a large corner tank (50g) to wall off the back 1/3rd (or so) of the tank like Ben describes.

s


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## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

What is a TFR panel? Does it stand for tree fern ROOT?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Yes - *T*ree *F*ern *R*oot panel.

s


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## Cville-dart (Apr 12, 2006)

Thanks for the ideas - I will try to integrate these in future vivs. I had already contructed my vivs, so I had to think of a way to introduce springtails to my existing setups. I bought PCV caps for piping, in two different sizes - I think for 2" and 1.5' dia. pipe. One will nest into the other nicely. I bury the larger one, with the opening up, in the substrate in a very easily accessible spot - usually in the front area of the viv. I then fill the smaller one with sprigtails and cocobedding. I then place the smaller one into the larger one and put a rock over them allowing for the sprigtails to wonder out through openings under the rock, but the frogs can't get to the "refuge". This attracts the frogs to an easily veiwable area and makes it easy to add more springtails by swapping the smaller cap with a newly filled one.


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