# Can a frog play dead? & Bicolor question



## spottedcircus

I got in 5 4-5mo old P. Bicolors on Tuesday. They arrived really cold and all looked dead & were tangled up in the sphagnum they were shipped in. I got them under a heat lamp and they warmed back up and started moving around. One of them is less active than the others and I was worried that he might have broken a leg from being tangled up. I reached in to try and see if he would hop a bit, and when I touched him, he flipped over on his back and stuck his back legs straight out, and stopped moving. I thought I had given him a heart attack or something, he was still breathing, so I shut the container and walked away for a bit. When I came back all 5 were in different places so he must have been ok. Do frogs "play dead"? Is this a common reaction when they are scared? None of my other frogs have ever done this, so it was kind of odd to me. 

On another note, how do you tell gold bicolors apart from green legged bicolors at this age? They all have golden bodies, and some of their leg areas are darker, and some are greenish. The retailer just called them P. Bicolor, and wouldn't put me in contact with the breeder of course. Thanks


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## ChrisK

Sounds like a seizure, some of my frogs would do that when they were in quarantine and I would open their containers to feed them or treat them with drops or something. Do a search on here for seizures, some of the best things you can do right now is minimize their stress (like don't harass them too much and enough hiding spots), stable good temps, not too many frogs in a small space, and good supplements dusted onto the ff's since calcium deficiency can cause seizures, make sure they're not being also stressed by too many ff's crawling on them though.


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## Eric Walker

never seen a dart play dead but some species of frogs are know to play dead quite often.

theloderma frogs do it all the time as well as one of my n. pictus. I have even seen some bullfrogs that did this all the time.


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## stemcellular

More and more I think this is a general response to a threat. I've had a number of adults and froglets (of multiple species) do this after being startled. I'm not discounting that in some cases it is related to nutrient deficiency but I do think that it is by large a general defense mechanism.


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## spottedcircus

Thanks for all the ideas. I'm supplementing every feeding with either reptical or herpvite. When he flopped over he kind of blew up his belly too to look fat I kind of assumed he was playing dead. But I'll continue feeding, and keeping an eye on them. Here is a photo of the group. There is a lot of pothos cuttings in there and leaves, this was when I initially put them in the QT container.


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## Roadrunner

That`s seizures. It`s not a good sign. 
Unless you know where they came from they`re just bicolors.


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## kingnicky101

I had the same problem with auratus I had. I purchased auratus from online, the jerk sent me panamanian g/b whem I ordered blue panamanians. So I put them in with my other auratus the day I got them. (I know that was a very bad move, I was very stupid then). I noticed when I went to feed them the next day they had twitched when I opened the lid and put the flies in. The new ones kind of twitched, and I thought they had died. I decided to leave the area of the tank and watched from desk in that room. They just popped back up like nothing happened. However, they would not eat and were very skinny. So, I seperated the new ones (which I should have done in the first place). I posted my problem on here and people said it was calcium defiency. S o I fed the 'infected ones about eight times a day but only 3 or 4 flies a feeding. They slowly stopped, except one that died early on.  I fed them more gradually each day with less feedings and they finally became fine. Hopefully this helps, good luck.


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## RarePlantBroker

I picked up 5 _P. vittatus_ from SNDF a couple of months ago. When Marcus placed all the frogs in the container, they looked good. When we went to check on the frogs prior to my leaving Ft. Lauderdale, one of them was lying totally immobile on one side of the container. When Marcus removed the lid the "lifeless" frog lept out of the container and we had to chase it down. The frog then went into a "limp" condition after being placed back in the container. I placed all of the frogs into their quarrantine container when I got home, and all but the one hid under the leaf litter. This one frog just sat, totally still out on a large leaf. By the next morning, this one frog was acting the same as the others, in fact I couldn't tell you which one it was.... It's been quite a while now, and no signs of any problems, and all the frogs are doing well. I would say that this is a possible reaction to stress in some animals.


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## spottedcircus

I think it is too. They stare right at me and don't move, but the second I look away hop hop away they go. Aren't there some toads or frogs that do bloat up and play dead to avoid being eaten? I'll just keep an eye on them, they are all in pretty good shape so far, but they've been though a lot with shipping.


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## Ed

Usually when the condition is due to a disruption of calcium metabolism, the frog stretches out and there are a series of small tremors and/or spasms in the frog (these may be small enough that they may be missed unless one is looking for it) during the rigor, death feigning usually does not include these spasms (as spasms indicate the frog is still alive ruining the effect of death feigning)... 

Ed


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## stemcellular

Helpful differentiation, Ed.


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## Woodsman

The only time I see the stress response is when transferring newly-morphed froglets from the morphing tank to their first viv (I've seen this especially in Leucomelas morphlets). They lay motionless on their backs (their bellies are black, so could there be an advantage to becoming less visible?) They willl stay like that for about 10 minutes, then everything is fine. I have never lost a froglet to this stress response.

Take care, Richard.


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## Chris Miller

My baby vanzolinii and standard lamasi will sometimes flip over when stressed out, usually after rocketing around their grow out enclosure. However, they're arms and legs are tucked in and their palms face up. I always figured they were showing off their belly spot to scare me away.

It definitely looks different than the calcium seizures.


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## spottedcircus

Well it must have been seizures in my frogs. The two that had been having issues died today. They were both in pretty good shape and hydrated when I found them, so hopefully the pet store will inform their breeder about this issue. I emailed the pet store, and we'll see what they have to say. Thanks for all the great ideas. Thats the last time I buy from a non dendroboard member though I think...


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## earthfrog

Don't forget that carbon dioxide buildup can also cause these symptoms. If there were several frogs in a four-ounce container, it's slightly possible this was the issue, especially if the moss shipped in with them is aged.
If it clears up with no further event, it may just have been shipping stress.


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## spottedcircus

earthfrog said:


> Don't forget that carbon dioxide buildup can also cause these symptoms. If there were several frogs in a four-ounce container, it's slightly possible this was the issue, especially if the moss shipped in with them is aged.
> If it clears up with no further event, it may just have been shipping stress.


This probally contributed too. The heat pack was inside with the frogs all in the same container with a lot of moss. I refered the seller to the shipping 101 link on here. I ended up losing all but 1 of the frogs. I was lucky to get a refund, but I learned a lesson. Buy only from educated dendroboard breeders. It is worth it!


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