# Calling behaviours



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I have a probable pair of CV imitators. They are about 7-9 moow. I haven't heard any calling at this point. I decided to play a few calling sounds the last couple days to see what happens.

As soon as I play the sound, the probable female comes quickly hoping towards the sound, if I move it she will follow. This morning I noticed she is rounder than usual. I am guessing since the frog is doing this she is most likely female? 

When I play the sound, the probable male erratically looks around and then just sits in the same spot, sometimes he even backs up into a brom.

So I am pretty sure that I have at least a female but what do you guys think about the probable male beahvior? Or just the whole situation in general?


----------



## calebrez (Dec 9, 2009)

I also have a pair of C valley imitators. When I play another male calling the male goes nuts and rushes towards the sound. Then he will begin to call. I have not seen what my female does (she was hiding in a brom) lol does your male call back when you play the sound?


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

calebrez said:


> I also have a pair of C valley imitators. When I play another male calling the male goes nuts and rushes towards the sound. Then he will begin to call. I have not seen what my female does (she was hiding in a brom) lol does your male call back when you play the sound?



No calling whatsoever.


----------



## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Got photos of the pair (recent ones)? Not hearing them call that young doesn't categorically mean no male, but it's likely.


----------



## calebrez (Dec 9, 2009)

I agree with johnc. Do you have pics of them? That would help visually. He may still be a little young but he may just be a late bloomer lol


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I knew the picture question would come. I tried to get a pic of them when I transferred them but one of them escaped temporarily and I said forget it and just quickly put them in their new viv. This was about two weeks ago. The viv is very well planted and even though they are always out its hard to get a good pic of them. I will try today though. And they have fattened up, since the viv has tons of springtails. Hope he's just a late bloomer.


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Gay?...lol seriously though. Perhaps he is stuck in the subordinate male mind set. My subs wont call if their lives depended on it once a hierarchy has been established. 

Maybe try pulling him for a week or two and then reintroduce him. Might trigger the dominant male attitude. 

I had two probable pairs of Varadero. Only one caller and one breeding female. 

In an attempt to make two breeding pairs I seperated the other two and put them in their own enclosure. Imediatly the other suspected male started calling. Great!...left them at it for two week, nothing came of it. The suspected female wanted nothing to do with him and steered clear. 

I put the group all back together. Next thing I knew I had 3 males calling and wrestling. Mind you two weeks prior these frogs all got along just fine with 0 aggression ever shown. 

I removed one male and the dynamic stabilized within a few hours. 

Now this was a one time observation but it made sense to me. There was an established heirarchy and once disturbed there was a fight to re establish breeding rights. 

Now assuming you have just the two frogs perhaps this is a mindset that has been in place since introduction and just needs his little world rocked for a few days. Might be the kick in his hypothetical balls to get him going. 



edit: you replied while I was typing....if just introduced then I don't know what to tell you for sure.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

D3monic said:


> Gay?...lol seriously though. Perhaps he is stuck in the subordinate male mind set. My subs wont call if their lives depended on it once a hierarchy has been established.
> 
> Maybe try pulling him for a week or two and then reintroduce him. Might trigger the dominant male attitude.
> 
> ...


Yeah they have been in there a week or two. I got them back in December. From the very begining the probable male was so much more active than the female. Towards the end of them being in quarantine though the role was reversed. And now in their new enclosure, the female is out and about on the glass and all over the place practically the whole time and the probable male is out too but more in the shadows much closer to hidning spots if that makes sense. Could I have possibly of made him have the subordinate male attitude by playing the sound clip?


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Theres always that possibility. Did you start playing the clips shortly after adding him? He might be fearful that he is in another males territory and that's why he is keeping to the shadows. Maybe give him a few weeks without playing clips. Plenty of leaf litter and the usual stuff so he feels secure. Worse case pull him again and wait a week or so before re-adding him. This would cause even more stress though. 

This is all assuming I even have the slightest insight into imitator psychology through my limited experiance lol. 

from what I have seen my C.Valley act just like my Varadero.


----------



## calebrez (Dec 9, 2009)

It was the exact opposite for me i placed them into their new tank and about a week later I was watching your (d3monic) Varadero Calling video on YouTube and I thought I was hearing 3 and it was my male! Now he has been calling nonstop! If I play it he will rush toward the sound. There was no calling in his old tank but I also put them through a month of a dry season. Now I'm feeding and misting every hour and after playing that clip super caller! Lol


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I just started the clips recently. So they were in there maybe a week before I played the sound. I think I might wait the few weeks before moving them since they have recently had their big move.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

One of my probable male Varadero is just over one year with no calling. I upped his misting schedule to three times a day and he is now on his third set of good eggs! Worlds greatest father! He is almost constantly protecting his eggs.
edit: After posting, looks a little thick around the middle...that might be mom checking up this time??


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> One of my probable male Varadero is just over one year with no calling. I upped his misting schedule to three times a day and he is now on his third set of good eggs! Worlds greatest father! He is almost constantly protecting his eggs.
> edit: After posting, looks a little thick around the middle...that might be mom checking up this time??


Your doing that to make me jealous aren't you. I kid. That's great that you got his real personality out. So did he start calling soon after the frequent mistings? Right now I am misting once a day or every other day. I just hope it is a male so I wont have to deal with buying/trading and then quarantine.


----------



## randa4 (Jul 29, 2010)

D3monic said:


> Gay?...lol seriously though. Perhaps he is stuck in the subordinate male mind set. My subs wont call if their lives depended on it once a hierarchy has been established.
> 
> Maybe try pulling him for a week or two and then reintroduce him. Might trigger the dominant male attitude.
> 
> ...


Mike,

I do not like your Gay humor. It's not funny. Please stop it.

Mike from Helotes


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

alex111683 said:


> Your doing that to make me jealous aren't you. I kid. That's great that you got his real personality out. So did he start calling soon after the frequent mistings? Right now I am misting once a day or every other day. I just hope it is a male so I wont have to deal with buying/trading and then quarantine.


Yes, I totally am. I'm just really mean and trying to rub it in! 
Here's the story, we were starting to suspect two females. Someone posted looking for a trade so we decided we better try to figure it out! Upped to three times a day and within two or three days I caught him calling. Within another two or three days we had eggs! First clutch was good! Those might end up being your frogs!
Now I've moved his viv onto the rack right above another pair of Varadero, (and yes, I'm just rubbing that in again!), and last night the two males (one in each viv) were calling like crazy trying to show the other one up! Then I caught the second guy all snuggled up to his girl! fingers crossed for them to start now!


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I wish I had another pair of imis to do this with. I have read many posts on here about males next to eachother trying to out do one another. Or the posts where they start calling minutes to hours after being placed in their new viv. Maybe after a week of heavy misting and still no calling I will play a sound clip at a distance. 

At what point should I be thinking a trade is in order?


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

randa4 said:


> Mike,
> 
> I do not like your Gay humor. It's not funny. Please stop it.
> 
> Mike from Helotes


Or you could just get over yourself. It is a valid possibility even in the animal world.


----------



## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

D3monic said:


> Or you could just get over yourself. It is a valid possibility even in the animal world.



Mike- I'm not offended. Hahaha. I'm afraid I might have 2 lesbian variabilis, as they have shown no real interest in my calling male.


----------



## randa4 (Jul 29, 2010)

D3monic said:


> Or you could just get over yourself. It is a valid possibility even in the animal world.


Mike,

What you said was not offensive, of course there are possibilities in PDF's for same sex attaction. Happens for all creatures, great & small.

What offended me was the sneering, sniggering tone you used to refer to it, "lol." 

I'll get over myself when persons like yourself show a reasonable amount of personal respect for your fellow men, even those different than you.


Mike in Helotes


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Tone? Sneering? sniggering? you could convey this in one word? Sounds like you have some serious issues you need to work out. My brother is gay, I could give a damn what your orientation or anyone elses is. Seriously, get over yourself.

now please, get over it and refrain from derailing this thread any further.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Come on guys, shake hands and chill out. Don't ruin a good thread.


----------



## randa4 (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm all for learning more about thumbnail pdf calling behaviors, using our collective knowledge and experience.

Mike in Helotes


----------



## calebrez (Dec 9, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> One of my probable male Varadero is just over one year with no calling. I upped his misting schedule to three times a day and he is now on his third set of good eggs! Worlds greatest father! He is almost constantly protecting his eggs.
> edit: After posting, looks a little thick around the middle...that might be mom checking up this time??


Pumilo is that right on the glass? awesome pic!


alex111683 If your only misting that little id crank it up and see what happens! What do you have to lose? lol


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

calebrez said:


> Pumilo is that right on the glass? awesome pic!
> 
> 
> alex111683 If your only misting that little id crank it up and see what happens! What do you have to lose? lol


Yes, they picked their spot right on the glass, somewhat protected by a piece of ghost wood. That is their third clutch of two, all laid within two inches of the first clutch. They were pretty proud of their first hatch and displayed the first tad on their back for 48 hours! Then they wore the second tad around fore 48 more! Frogboy said it was mom doing the transport on at least the second egg. I have learned not to doubt what he says he saw in the frog tanks!


----------



## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

Don't get too jealous Alex. I'm still waiting for spring to get imis shipped from the midwest. Meanwhile I still owe you some plants cuttings! I haven't forgotten.

Please post tank photos of your setup when you get around to putting in pics of the probable male and female. I'd like to see their home. For what its worth, I just rehomed my azureus pair a few weeks ago and it took them a while to decide to be brave again once they found their new home. Maybe your pair just needs to settle down for a bit. I'd give them some time to just chill out and get acclimated. In the mean time, plenty of food, plenty of mist, plenty of leaf litter and plants for them to hide in. Before you know it, I'll be buying Imis off of you!

good luck,
brett


----------



## calebrez (Dec 9, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> Yes, they picked their spot right on the glass, somewhat protected by a piece of ghost wood. That is their third clutch of two, all laid within two inches of the first clutch. They were pretty proud of their first hatch and displayed the first tad on their back for 48 hours! Then they wore the second tad around fore 48 more! Frogboy said it was mom doing the transport on at least the second egg. I have learned not to doubt what he says he saw in the frog tanks!


Wow that is awesome! I am totally jealous! I love the look of the Varaderos beautiful colors. Last night we were at dinner and my fiance told everyone that I keep frogs. Then it started... They were amazed! They were like arnt they poisoness? Question after question...  slowly converting the world one dart frog at a time!


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Even though they are out all the time, they are never in a good spot to take a good pic and I dont want to take them out and stress them out more. Here's the best pics I could get of each of them.

Probable female. (Pretty sure she's a female but I am no expert)



























Probable male (This is the one I'm not sure of)


























make sure to click on this last picture to see the normal size otherwise it's looking very sqaut.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

First one sure looks female to me. Any chance of a top down shot of "him"?


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> First one sure looks female to me. Any chance of a top down shot of "him"?


I have a couple but it's when I first got them back in mid december and in their quarantine.


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

First one definatly looks like a female...second kind of looks female too. Hard to say. I tend to only feed 1-2 times a week so my males are a little more athletic looking and easier to spot.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

D3monic said:


> First one definatly looks like a female...second kind of looks female too. Hard to say. I tend to only feed 1-2 times a week so my males are a little more athletic looking and easier to spot.


They have definitely fattened up since I moved them. I feed 2-3 times a week and the tank has a ton of springtails. Maybe I should cut it down to just one just so they can get their supplements.


----------



## yumpster (May 22, 2009)

I feed my vents AT LEAST 2-3 times a week, and it is still very easy to distinguish the female from the male (she is about twice as wide ).


I agree that the first frog definitely looks female. The second one could go either way. In my experience, frequent misting is the best way to get a male calling. Maybe double the amount of misting you are currently doing. You don't need to drench everything. Just enough to get everything damp each time.


Also, do you have a good amount of leaf litter on the ground? When my vents aren't up in the broms, they are hiding in the leaf litter. Some frogs just refuse to call until they feel completely secure in their environment.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

There is quite a bit of leaf litter but I can add more, it wouldn't hurt right? Since putting them in their new home I have only seem them in the leaf litter once and that was when I first put them in. Ever since then, they have been in the upper half of the vert. I planted densely. There are 10 broms in the enclosure along with other plants like pothos, anthurium, and a viney peromia. It's densely planted and I think that's why I can see the two of them every time I look in.


----------



## calebrez (Dec 9, 2009)

First one definitely looks like a female and the second one could go either way my male looks longer than my female and he is leaner so it's pretty easy to tell them apart. But I am no expert lol


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

The probable male is a little longer looking. I don't think I have mentioned this but the probable male is noticeably smaller.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

HOLY GAUCAMOLE!!!!

I can't believe this! I have been spraying 2-3 times a day like recently recomended. I took my daughter to a birthday party and when we came back about an hour ago guess what happened?

EGGS!!!!!!!!!!

I have been reading up alot on eggs and tadpoles lately and as soon as I saw this, I basically forgot everything I read! I know that it can take a few days for the male to fertilize and their first few clutches probably won't be viable. I also remember reading that their clutch size is usually small (2-4) this one has 5!

Since the tank is well planted it was hard to get a good picture but here are a couple.

Also can it possibly turn out that I still have two females? And since I was playing some calling sounds it made one of them start laying?


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yay! Hope they develop for you. We'll need an updated pic if they do


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Woo Hoo!! That's almost exactly the same schedule my Varadero started with!


----------



## yumpster (May 22, 2009)

alex111683 said:


> I know that it can take a few days for the male to fertilize and their first few clutches probably won't be viable.


I usually give them 24 hours to fertilize the eggs and then pull them. I'm willing to bet they are already fertilized though. Most of the time the first few clutches mold over, but my first auratus clutch produced 5 healthy tadpoles. Sometimes you just never know. Cross your fingers!! Congrats!



alex111683 said:


> Also can it possibly turn out that I still have two females? And since I was playing some calling sounds it made one of them start laying?


Well I suppose anything is possible, but I would say it's unlikely. If they were sold to you as a probable pair and you got eggs from them, it's highly likely that they are indeed a pair. Either way, you will know for sure in a few days if the eggs start developing.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

So anyone on here ever have only females and egg laying before?


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

alex111683 said:


> So anyone on here ever have only females and egg laying before?


Not me, but I have heard rumors of it. If so, I gather it's pretty rare. I think you're probably good!!


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

I wouldnt worry at this point. Just sit back and watch. Check back on them in like a week. If they are little moldy piles of snot then no good. If they look like this 










Then you know they are doing something right.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

You guys are right. At this point I am just getting worried for nothing. I guess I just have a shy male and only calls when the house is empty I guess I just have to decide at this point if I want to leave them in there or pull. I am thinking if i want to pull, I should do it when they are still eggs because I probably won't find them if they get placed in a brom because I have 10 in the viv.

So if I decide to remove them I think I read that they should be exactly if not close to the same position as they were right before you took them off? So if one rolls and is laying on the exact other side as it was before it was moved it will die? What do you use to move them? I have read slurpy straws work well. I have these extra small metal spoons from when my daughter first started eating solids.

And here's what I plan on doing if I decide to move them tomorrow or the next day. I will put them on a petre dish fill them to about 1/3 their thickness with water or maybe just spray them to keep moist. Cover them with the other half/lid of the dish. Then I will put that inside a tupperware/shoebox container with a little water in it about halfway up the petre dish. Then just monitor the temp inside that to stay between 72-78 degrees. Any other tips?


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Imis will call more quietly after they have laid eggs and/or raising young in the tank. You may just need to listen up better. 

I think the last pic is the male if I had to guess based on its body. Males usually like to guard and peer around while the young females duck and cover in my exp. with nominals--maybe the 'squatty pose'. As the frogs age and get used to you they just hang around in the open.

Also, I'd leave the eggs where they are until you see tadpoles in them or they may ruin on transfer---if an egg gets turned funny during transport it will abort. Also, when they are _in situ_, do not mist the eggs directly early on if possible or you may wash off the male's urine which helps prevent fungal attack. When I pull eggs, I put them in a water suspension half covering the eggs with some blackwater extract added---one or two drops for 3-4 TBS of water.
I use a pencil tip with the graphite broken off to move the eggs. I do not use QTips or latex gloves or my bare hands as I feel these things may harm the embryos.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Remember that my male was only heard to call ONE time before we found eggs! One clue you can watch for is that some males will hang out by the eggs a lot, guarding them. Mine sure does! I'm pretty sure he'll shiv me if I try to pull his eggs! lol So far I let them deposit and then pull the film canister. If you do that, just make sure they've got clean water to deposit them into.
Consider this, if you move their first batch and they fail, you will be left wondering if you screwed something up. You could just choose to monitor them. As long as they are not rotting and the gel is staying nice and plump, he's probably watering them and all is well. I was watching one batch and they slid down the glass. They were an inch above the bottom but he apparently quit watching them. When I saw that the gel was definitely shrinking, I pulled them. He was taking care of another clutch by then so I didn't get jumped! I put them in a petri dish with a bit of water and they plumped right up. They hatched today!


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Remember that my male was only heard to call ONE time before we found eggs! One clue you can watch for is that some males will hang out by the eggs a lot, guarding them. Mine sure does! I'm pretty sure he'll shiv me if I try to pull his eggs! lol So far I let them deposit and then pull the film canister. If you do that, just make sure they've got clean water to deposit them into.
> Consider this, if you move their first batch and they fail, you will be left wondering if you screwed something up. You could just choose to monitor them. As long as they are not rotting and the gel is staying nice and plump, he's probably watering them and all is well. I was watching one batch and they slid down the glass. They were an inch above the bottom but he apparently quit watching them. When I saw that the gel was definitely shrinking, I pulled them. He was taking care of another clutch by then so I didn't get jumped! I put them in a petri dish with a bit of water and they plumped right up. They hatched today!


I think I'm going to let them be unless I see the problem as you stated above. The probable male (but at this point, from what you guys have been saying, the male) was just hanging around his usual spots but we did notice, the thinner, mom hanging around the eggs. At this point I guess I will just post updates but any other tips or suggestions would be great.


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

alex111683 said:


> I think I'm going to let them be unless I see the problem as you stated above. The probable male (but at this point, from what you guys have been saying, the male) was just hanging around his usual spots but we did notice, the thinner, mom hanging around the eggs. At this point I guess I will just post updates but any other tips or suggestions would be great.


A very real additional risk with nominal imis is the rival 'mom' eating the other's eggs (unlike some pumilio, where all moms watch the eggs/babies). In a case where the eggs may be left unguarded, they may get eaten. 

An alternative solution to removing the eggs individually would be to remove a rival female until those eggs are hatched, or, if you are pulling them, to cut the leaf where they are so as not to disturb their development much, keeping it upright at all times.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

It's a suspected 1.1 Susan. Just the two frogs in the viv.


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Pumilo said:


> It's a suspected 1.1 Susan. Just the two frogs in the viv.


Yeah, I surmised that from the pics shown, but wasn't 100 percent sure on that, so I offered just in case.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I thought about cutting the leaf of with the eggs. But they are towards the bottom of the brom and the place they are in the viv it would be very hard to remove them. 

There are only two frogs in the tank, I decided to do it that way when I kept reading that they were monogomous.


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Not sure of you plan but theres always the option of letting the parents deal with them. Nothings more rewarding than watching the parents transport and care for their tads. I currently have 2-3 little free range froglets in my C.Valley viv. One is amazingly bold. I pulled my viv off the shelf rearanged the shelves and banged on stuff like crazy and he didnt budge from the film can he was perched on. Just kept feeding on the maggots in the banana mix. They tend to grow much faster when in viv VS being moved. My rubbermade Varaderos that are around 3+ mow are still small as hell while a C.Valley that I left in the viv and morphed at the same time as them is big enough I can no longer tell it from its parents.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

D3monic said:


> Not sure of you plan but theres always the option of letting the parents deal with them. Nothings more rewarding than watching the parents transport and care for their tads. I currently have 2-3 little free range froglets in my C.Valley viv. One is amazingly bold. I pulled my viv off the shelf rearanged the shelves and banged on stuff like crazy and he didnt budge from the film can he was perched on. Just kept feeding on the maggots in the banana mix. They tend to grow much faster when in viv VS being moved. My rubbermade Varaderos that are around 3+ mow are still small as hell while a C.Valley that I left in the viv and morphed at the same time as them is big enough I can no longer tell it from its parents.


I am planning on letting the parents take care of them unless any problems arise like the one stated by pumilo earlier. I really hope they take. I'll try to keep updates.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

How old are they? Often you get first clutch failures when they breed at an early age, like 6 months. Imitators often breed that early. When thery wait until a year old, you are much more likely to get good eggs and successful froglets the very first breeding.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

They're about 8 months. I'm not expecting too much out of it but I'm glad it happened. Its almost like they knew I made this thread Hahahaha.


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Hmmm...maybe I should make a thread about my San Cristobal and Escudo then....Only frogs that I got that are not breeding for me. Damn Pum's


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

That's kind of between. Could go either way. Don't fret it if they don't take. Just keep misting and they'll keep breeding for a while now.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

Well I don't know exactly know what a fertilized egg looks like a couple days after they have been layed. And it's hard to see and much less photograph them but I did my best without a macro lens. Let me know what you guys think

The "yolk" is starting to get bigger and they are starting to look a little cloudy. I have a feeling they didn't take. From as best I can see they don't look like the picture Mike posted  Let me know what you guys think.


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Yeah, they are looking yucko, at least from this angle. If they are getting a gray line on top, they are good and leave them be until you're absolutely sure that they're getting cloudy or staying clear and developing. 
The last stage of decay is the white worms eating into the yolk. Don't fret, just leave them for the parents to deal with---if you let them choose whether to clean the site should the eggs go bad, they may reuse it. When you move eggs they tend to find new, more obscure places to lay them, so I only do it when pulling good eggs or removing bad ones the parents forget to remove. Once the females build up enough nutrients they will lay more solid eggs. Part of the issue too might be that the female did not lay the eggs in the spot where the male produced sperm, or he did not fertilize them.

I don't know of anyone who got good eggs the first try. Keep us updated.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Not a problem though. You're on the way!


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Don't count them out just yet but they look potentially bad. Id say once they look like icky snot you will know for sure


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I forgot to mention. It is a clutch of five. The only way I can count them is if I look through the upper corner on the side of the tank. I think 2 of them still look "clearer" than the others. Anyone have 2-4 day old fertilized egg pictures?


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

alex111683 said:


> I forgot to mention. It is a clutch of five. The only way I can count them is if I look through the upper corner on the side of the tank. I think 2 of them still look "clearer" than the others. Anyone have 2-4 day old fertilized egg pictures?


A clutch of five?! That's crazy huge! are you sure that's not two clutches? Imitator clutches are typically 2 or 3.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

I was wondering when someone was going to say something about the clutch size. I posted the clutch size when I posted the very first pics of the eggs a few days ago. There are 5 eggs. That's how many there were when I first saw them on Sunday. There wasn't a single egg there when I left and when I came home about 3 hours later there they were.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

They have done it yet again! And they they layed another 5 eggs exactly a week after their first clutch; which I think went bad. This time it was closer to one of the sides so it might be easier to monitor. Here's a pic through the glass. What do you guys think? They're not completely white this time, they have some greyish specs on them.










You can clearly see the 5 eggs in this one.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Look good so far! Wow! She lays some monster clutches!


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

The eggs look good. Try turning the misters off until they are about to hatch and instead hand mist away from the eggs if you are using RO water in the mister unit. That can cause abortion issues with the eggs.


----------



## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Very nice clutch. Most of my thumbs lay around 2-3 eggs. My Vanzalini on the other hand get some nice clutches like that.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

earthfrog said:


> The eggs look good. Try turning the misters off until they are about to hatch and instead hand mist away from the eggs if you are using RO water in the mister unit. That can cause abortion issues with the eggs.


Yeah I kept the hand mister away from the first clutch of eggs as much as I could. I found these today after misting. I remember what you posted about the urine protecting the eggs. Hopefully I haven't washed away anything vital. 

So why do they have those greyish "smears" on them? Is that what fertilized imitator eggs look like?


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

alex111683 said:


> Yeah I kept the hand mister away from the first clutch of eggs as much as I could. I found these today after misting. I remember what you posted about the urine protecting the eggs. Hopefully I haven't washed away anything vital.
> 
> So why do they have those greyish "smears" on them? Is that what fertilized imitator eggs look like?


Those are your new tad embryos growing atop their yolk sacs, my friend.


----------



## alex111683 (Sep 11, 2010)

earthfrog said:


> Those are your new tad embryos growing atop their yolk sacs, my friend.


AWESOME!!!!! Now I really hope I didn't desturb them too much by spraying. 

Now that I think about it, yesterday I noticed the female right next to her eggs and even told myself it looked like she was checking on them and was realizing they weren't any good. And what do you know, the next day she lays! I remember you saying to let them clean off the bad eggs or else they might be more secretive next time. The bad eggs are still there, do you think it's safe by now to remove them myself?


----------



## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

alex111683 said:


> AWESOME!!!!! Now I really hope I didn't desturb them too much by spraying.
> 
> Now that I think about it, yesterday I noticed the female right next to her eggs and even told myself it looked like she was checking on them and was realizing they weren't any good. And what do you know, the next day she lays! I remember you saying to let them clean off the bad eggs or else they might be more secretive next time. The bad eggs are still there, do you think it's safe by now to remove them myself?


Yeah, if they are not doing it you can remove them--it's always safe to do it, they just may pick another spot---try to do it when they're not watching, though--it might not make a difference, but who knows. 

(You'd probably like my imi blog---sounds like you really enjoy them, too.)


----------

