# Positively Geotaxic D. melanogastor



## Guest (Dec 11, 2004)

Everyone, please my post at the end of this thread regarding these flies. Looks like we may have been a little premature in bringing these to everyones attention. Hopefully the kinks will be worked out of this line and we'll be able to offer them soon.

Thanks,
Derek


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

Are you serious? They walk down the tank! I'm ordering tongiht...actually I might be able to get some Mid-Atlantic Dendro Groupies to do a group buy!

The _*Mid-Atlantic Dendro Group*_ would like *10* orders and counting. I will pay for the order and collect from the group attendees.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Do you culture these flied differently? Do they climb the coffee filters/excelsior?


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2004)

Josh,

These flies can climb coffee filters, excelsior, and the sides of culture cups. But, they are genetically altered to climb towards gravity rather than away from gravity. Thus, you will get a few that "explore" but they start heading back down pretty quickly. For the most part they congregate on the bottom of the cultures. We even put a bunch in an open bowl over night and they were still there in the morning....pretty cool!

As far as culturing - they are cultured just as you would any other melanogastor. Just make sure your medium isn't too soupy!!

Derek


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## Jace King (May 5, 2004)

Like i said in the vendor feedback. i love how you intorduce new stuff into the hobby. What would my total be. For yellow hydei, 2 new (differeent)cultures of springtails, and these new melonogastors. Or i could just call you. But thanks either way.


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Jace, that would be better as a pm, but he is also helpful on the phone. He is always introducing new stuff, no doubt there will be more types of feeders.


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## joshua_delancey69 (Mar 1, 2004)

I am comming to the meeting and would possible be interested in 2 clutures.


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## Ben_C (Jun 25, 2004)

Hey all,
These flies are very great. I've been culturing them for months and was the one who sold them to derek. I wouldn't say that they walk down but rather don't walk up...my original post months ago which didn't stirr up any interest (basically title of this one) may have been incorrect as I think they may be negatively phototaxic rather than positively geotaxic (i know, i know...same thing, whatever...)
Anyway, they are very good flies, especially for froglets as they don't move a lot, but move enough if that makes sense... Only downside that I've noticed is that they are slightly (very slightly) less prolific than wild type melanogaster. Personally I think that they should replace all melanogaster in the hobby, although i'm slightly biased. They don't get out, they're pretty meaty, they basically sit there asking to be eaten.
~Ben


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

I tried to search your original post, Ben but nothing showed up. 

Those are rather cool flies.


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## Ben_C (Jun 25, 2004)

doh! that was on another board...I thought for sure it was on this board!
http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?act ... 354&page=0
if interested...from February of this year ehhehe wow, that was a ways back


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## Mantellaprince20 (Aug 25, 2004)

Ben,

I am going to have to get another culture from you. I would like to really get these things going. I am so sick and tired of waking up to smash a fruitfly crawling across my face. If these flies are really as good as everyone says, I will put a lot more effort into it. I didn't even realize it in the first culture you gave me. 

Ed Parker


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## Ben_C (Jun 25, 2004)

Ed,
No problem, call me and I'll give you directions to my lab (not the same place we met last time). I'll set you up w/ some, no problem 
~Ben


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

Ben or Derek, 
Genetically altered/Modified or geneticically select? Irradiated?


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## Ben_C (Jun 25, 2004)

TimStout, A little unclear on your question...
THey were not irradiated to cause the mutation if that is what you are asking. As for the Genetically altered/modified or genetically select, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking...this trait has been selected for to control for reversions to wildtype and the flightlessnesss/blindness/whatever is genetic so it is genetically altered/modified from the wildtype state...
HOPe this helps. If you need more clarification, let me know.
~Ben


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2004)

Tim.

I've been in contact with the PhD's that developed this line. The line shows polygenic traits and was deleloped selectively from multiple melanogastor lines that showed spontaneous mutations while in culture. If I understand correctly this phenotype is the combined expression of about 250 genes. 

Derek


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

Guys,
Thanks for the response. When asking if the flies were genetically altered/modified I meant by man via irradiation or some other means. I work in plant science where there are successful systems for genetic modification of plants with controversy surrounding these Genetically Modified Organisms. The topic peaked my interest so I thought I'd ask. 
My wife would really like these flies and I wouldn't mind not running the vac in the frog room every other day. Is anyone working on heydi for similar traits?


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2004)

Tim,

There are several Drosophila stocks that have been modified using irradiation (or other "exposure type" means). We don't carry any, but some are floating around. 

We are working with a larger fly with very similar charasteristics to this line. Should be a great addition and will be available soon...

Derek


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*Impossible*

"I've been in contact with the PhD's that developed this line"

WHO? From where?

"The line shows polygenic traits and was deleloped selectively from multiple melanogastor lines that showed spontaneous mutations"

Spontaneous mutations? Something had to cause them. What was used, I am so curious. The accounting of these mutations and the carriers of them must have been tedious. It is expensive to develop mutations in bacteria let alone fruit flies, and to cover so many? Wow will modern science ever fail to amaze?

"If I understand correctly this phenotype is the combined expression of about 250 genes."

Wow, how did they map that? Human eye color is from about 18, but 250! 250 exactly! Wow. The computers that they used to map it must be seriously huge and fast. This is exciting I am looking forward to the paper that will be released on this. Please, let us know.
This is so exciting,
Dave


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

Dave,
Thanks for the info.


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## TimStout (Feb 16, 2004)

OOPS! 
Thanks Derek.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2004)

Dave and all, 

A few papers have already been published on these flies. They are readily searchable on Google. The most interesting in my opinion was published Nature in either 2001 or 2002. I’ll have to look for my copy if anyone is really interested.

I believe that the technique used to identify these genes utilized cDNA microarrays and behavioral observation as confirmation. These are just big words for comparing the DNA of this line to other “control” lines and then watching the flies move around.

In any case, I’ve got some bad news here. According to our entomologist friend, the original line has begun reverting to the negative geotaxic phenotype. The cultures we received are from this line. But, (I suspect) are a few generations behind. So, I’ve decided to hold off shipping any of these until this problem has been worked out. 

Needless to say we are pretty disappointed and hope that we didn’t cause too much excitement about these….we’ll post again once I am confident that these are going to show the proper phenotype across multiple generations…


Derek


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*Yeah*

Yeah I would love a reference to that paper.
Dave


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

*Re: Yeah*



ED's_Fly_Meat_Inc said:


> Yeah I would love a reference to that paper.
> Dave


Is it just me, or are you seeming to be very "pissy" about this subject? I could just be reading it wrong, but to me you are coming across as being a smart [email protected]$. :? 

-Shelley


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Thats the first thing I thought.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2004)

I don't think he means it that much, but I think he is questioning the validity of some of the statements. There is a bit of history as well that adds to frustration.
j


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

This a legitimate line. It does not breed true and losses the trait. It was the flavor of the day. I think we've been through this kind of excitement and let down before with the new "miracle" food.


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

To All:
My husband is by no means Pissy, Sarcastic, YES! As I rarely post to dendroboard it is just frustrating that newbies or others see some "new insect" as a miracle that was "developed". There are many mutations of fruit flies and as Mike Schrom said the trait soon will be lost. Please remember folks, if it sounds too good to be true, IT IS! but then again your money is already in some one elses pocket, isnt it?
Erin McLay


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

I bought these flies and Derek cancelled the order before he sent them. He handled the situation nicely...no hard feelings on my end.



ED's_Fly_Meat_Inc said:


> To All:
> My husband is by no means Pissy, Sarcastic, YES! As I rarely post to dendroboard it is just frustrating that newbies or others see some "new insect" as a miracle that was "developed". There are many mutations of fruit flies and as Mike Schrom said the trait soon will be lost. Please remember folks, if it sounds too good to be true, IT IS! but then again your money is already in some one elses pocket, isnt it?
> Erin McLay


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

I was not trying to shoot him down by any means. I really just couldn't tell if he was genuinely being mean about it or if he was being sarcastic. I could care less about the files, I just didn't know how to take what he was saying. I couldn't tell if he was trying to attack him on this. No hard feelings Dave, I just didn't understand.

-Shelley


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## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

He saw something that didnt seem right, and he was possibly correct. If he wasnt we wouldnt be hearing about them reverting to original traits. If he tries to warn people about something that he has experience on hear him out first. Not trying to get involved in anything with anyone, but he was trying to point something out and he did. Do I know if the problems with the flies are one of the things he was refering to? No, it could just be a fluke that needs work.


Ryan


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2004)

FlyCulture represented this line fairly and accurately. It has been in culture for over a decade and there is peer reviewed documentation supporting the phenotypes and genotypes. Again, spend a minute on Google and you'll have the references. I don't think that this can be said of many other commonly available lines of "feeder" Drosophila. Furthermore, our stock continues to show the proper phenotype. However, when I was made aware of a problem with the original line I held all orders to protect my customers. The problem with the original line could be the result of a contamination from another line or it could be that the line is skewing from the documented phenotype. When I am confident that our stock will work for our clients we will release it.

FlyCulture is always striving to bring new and exciting feeders to this hobby. Clearly we have gone above and beyond the efforts of any other vender in the market. At the same time we provide the best customer service and the best products at the best prices. If in doing so means that we jumped the gun on this great new feeder. So be it. Nobody was harmed or lost money by ordering these flies. I am confident that our products speak for themselves. If any of our clients ever have a problem, all you have to do is give us a call and we'll take care of you. 

Finally if there is anyone new or old to this hobby that is interested in raising insects more efficiently and effectively. Just give us a call. I’ll be happy to discuss your needs and concerns.

Thanks,
Derek


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*Derek*

Derek,
No one is questioning whether or not this fly exists. I'm sure it does. Like you, I am curious about the science behind this fly. I think that with so many genetic mutations associated with fly, it will be very hard to keep this strain, "pure" I am not surprised that some of the strains are reverting back and probably back again to the geotaxic behavior that was earlier described. 

No one is questioning your line of flies, or your business practices. No one is pointing fingers at you, and no one is that bad guy here. (Although I do have an issue with you regarding your use of edsflymeat.com.) :wink: Clearly you have been able to do some things right and I am glad to see have made some happy customers along the way. Good on you, I believe that in order for this hobby to make positive advances we need a variety of sources for people to participate in the hobby. I think it can be fairly said that we have also done so. But here is my point. Isn't the purpose of this forum to ask hard questions? To refute claims? Is that not what science is all about? And finally, is this hobby not invested in science? This is what dendroboard is for, to have discussions about the hobby and to go back and forth and learn from each other. Perhaps we could discuss our passions further as associates at a Dart Frog event over a nice cold beer, I'll buy.
Best to you, and Happy Holiday's
Dave McLay
ED's Fly Meat Inc.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2004)

*Enough is enough*

Dave,

You are out of line. This is not the first of my ads that you have posted inappropriately on. Remember your attack on the Turkish Gliders. I have not commented on your products or your business practices and would ask you to do the same. You have accused us of something that we did not do and that is inappropriate. 

I am pretty tired of the pettiness that you are displaying here. I have ignored your comments both public and private for too long. I am not interested in a replay of the other vender flame wars. But, you seem inclined to antagonize us. I am asking you to stop from posting comments on our classified ads and to do your own research if you are truly interested in this line of flies. 

I agree that this forum is a great place to ask "hard questions" or any others for that matter. But, when you repeatedly comment on our classifieds I find it hard to believe that your intent is purely educational. This thread was initially a classified ad - not a forum thread. Rather than deleting the ad, I asked that it be moved here only after your initial harassment. My reasoning was to allow the community to understand the status of this really exciting line.

Regards,
Derek


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## EDs Fly Meat (Apr 29, 2004)

*Derek, you have a PM*

Derek you have a PM.


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