# Da dart room.....the slow thread!!!



## stu&shaz

Hi ya all,Im Stu the one that talks to much ,me darlin' is Shaz, not to good at the mo. being messed with be some horrible form of arthritis,so me little attempt at a room to keep darts in is for me lady,though it must be said I am pretty much obsessed with all things natural,especially frogs and birds.I /we have looked after birds for about 25 years,so now we are making abit of a change,ha somewhere warm for my darlin to work and the realisation of a childhood ambition for me. Oneday we are gonna keep dartfrogs,ha ONEDAY.
We really started working on this last summer, we grow stuff,pretty much anything really,most of our food,worked in nurseries ya get the drift, so as our budget is tiny, plants seemed the logical first step, buy one...work it,has been our ethos, hmmm we now have quite a few,grown without lights,heat or anything much just the old stockman thang....observe! All are organic afterall one thats how we live,and I wouldn't want our frogs to come in contact with somethig nasty,would I? Of course the flip side is we are also minimising the risk of bringing something nasty here. I suppose we should srart with a few pics shows a bit more than me wafflin' on.....


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## stu&shaz

sorry run out of space...pics:
































Oh well you get the idea.
So after growing for a while,and reading everything we could,asking questions everywhere(which I'll refer to as Q's from now on), we started work on the room.
We live in a fairly old house,old crap metal windows (more later), but we are fortunate to have a free north facing room,which keeps a stable,but cold temperature, right through the year(I ran a max/min thremometer in there last year for about 6/8 months to verify this). The room measures 2.35m by2.85m(sorry guys metric).
The first point of call was to decorate,so sorted ceiling,pulled back the carpet,and OMG one completely rotten floor,don't know if you guys get wood worm but erm we DO! This was confirmed as I started to take out bits for the electrcian to do his thing. So the whole lot went out of the window


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## Julio

nice project, any idea as to how many tanks you can fit in there?


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## stu&shaz

Bit of a set back ......but heyho life does this to me...haha. One of the great things about being a horder like me is that something stashed years ago becomes usefull,the old ecowarrior in me i suppose,a new floor was lurking in our loft,but first we reinforced thefloor with screwed noggings to alliviate later concerns with weight. As we went we also insulated the floor...hereya go:
























kerching one new floor
We finished decorating and fitted a new laminate floor,skirting etc


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## stu&shaz

So after much reserch,we moved on to the racking that will house our vivs:gonna back track slightly here.
As a kid I used to keep a few amphibians,they left me with a few hang ups i suppose.....I hated not being able to see them because of condensation,hated not being able to see them because of the lights shining in my eyes(I now ware glasses so that is even worse now with the added reflections) Which is where our racks start to come into play.
I could easily make racks out of wood(I have made stuff since a kid...I'm now 47), but for several reasons I chose to base our racking system on Aiuminium:1 It is easy to clean....2 it takes up way less space than wood for the same structural integrety 3 it weighs less 4 it is not inclined to move with the potientally high levels of humidity in a frog room(remember I am a total beginner to this). Our design is based around a German design which is out of reach for a careworker like myself,so we have had a stab at making our own...it works out about 1/3rd the price of the bought version,although that in no way accounts for our time. And man don't these take some time to make,I have not published links as you are all so far away,but I'm sure these products are available over the water.


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## AaronAcker

Very very nice. Should be quite nice when finished


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## alex111683

Subscribed for sure! Wish you two the best. I can't wait to see the results!!


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## frogface

Wow, great work! Looking forward to watching you build this.


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## stu&shaz

Sorry guys another backtrack,i eluded to our windows and their inefficency, we made a sondary glazed unit to offset these problems...and tiled the reveal in order to make it easy to clean....total cost 8 screws...and alot of swearing twas a pig to make,everything used was rubbish which would have ended up in landfill, against our ethics i suppose,








anyway racking....
We have based our design on that of ENT,mainframe made up of1" ali,filling in withpvc foamboard,in our case white as it suits the room...ha ha . Some notes about working with ali:
Our ali is anodised and came looking like this


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## stu&shaz

there are also a series of connectors to suit








We also ordered some1/2"anodised angle and some3/4 angle not anodised because it will not be seen.
As i said I make stuff and the flip side is i have good tools, all our ali was cut using a chop saw ,a little safetynote: clamp your ali down,also use a false fence so that as the saw cuts it cuts down on to the ali,therefore making it less likly to be thrown out by the saw, and do the potential frog keeper lasting damage this might make it easier to understand:false fence








clamps in action


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## stu&shaz

Here is my working sketch,thought some of ya might be thinking what the hell is he making,








This rack will be for commumal frogs ...ie leucs...galacs...auratus etc,hopefully in groups of 5...top and bottom vivs 60x60x60cm(about 2') middle shelf 40 high, this was mainly to keep the top viv accessable to Shaz(she if vertically challenged....hmmmm SHORT)
The 1" tube is attached to the angle with pop rivits, these are to create the lighting area and the"frame" for the side panels to be attached to,great thing about the rivits is there is no distortion bad thing how long it takes...my god there is some work in these racks


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## stu&shaz

Once all the cutting and riviting is out of the way its basically a case of bashing it all together with a non marking hammer(remember to use a new fence with the mitre cuts)








first foot








sides








detail of the side mitres








rack being assembled


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## Julio

that is gonna be amazing, that is what i wanted to do with my frog tanks, can't wait to see it done. Can you pm and let me know where you got the materials?


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## stu&shaz

And one rack








as you can see the first of the boards is in place,it is 5mm and sitting on the 3/4" ali i made a little jig to alliviate constant measuring








and a bit more detail








sides were covered in 3mm like this...siliconed in with of course frog SAFE silicon


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## AaronAcker

That is clean! I'm pretty jealous right now.


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## stu&shaz

initially we are using 6500kelvin lighting the lighting areas will be eventually covered in the 3mm as sliding doors in conventional glass type runners which i will deal with in a good while as i want to order all runners at once(we are also building our own vivs) we made some simple brackets up to carry the lights like this
















We are going to make all our vivs out of old scrap glass,again based around the ent type false floor vivs,I love the design,and it seems to address some of my earlier concearnes...time will tell if this all goes to plan, I fully appreciate the risks in using glass like this but it i think its doable here is our first prototype viv, which despit my concearns made it to the room in one peice, the background and build took place months earlier as a prototype build to see if we could do it...


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## Quaz

I can't wait to see the details of the aluminium framing. I've been looking into this for a while for my mariculture and frog breeding racks. Hope you put in a lot of detail.

By the way... where in the little blue ball are you anyway?

Please give details on the proto viv if you could too.


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## stu&shaz

Wood is good old english oak... and a bit of our native lonicera,backgound rockoflex and elastopur over polystryene and expanding foam,covered over in peat ecoearth mix. The next day was huge for me,Shaz got to go into our green house and play kid in a sweetshop,these are the plants she picked out and then she told me where to...erm stick em....OOORRRAAA so much fun ...a good day here are the plants and in place in the viv
















and a couple more one with moss and one just a few days ago This was Im guessing about 4/5 weeks ago


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## Julio

Great vivs!!


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## stu&shaz

we also have a couple of little vivs planted up, and have just finished Well nearly our second rack 10x 50x50x40high,2x60cm high here ya go
















Just to be sure we started to nail down the food culturing a while ago now ha ha Shaz has it wired i think,although I find her wanting to name all her beanweavils(slightly distressing),erm and timeconsuming


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## stu&shaz

Guys I have been lurking here quietly looking and learning off you all for a while now just wanted to say THANKYOU THANKYOU huge regards Stu Oh ps 18 months of graft and still not ready for frogs ...he he,once I have finished all the banging and silicon on the racks then we just can't wait....soon !!!!!!


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## Julio

where are you located?


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## stu&shaz

Julio said:


> nice project, any idea as to how many tanks you can fit in there?


Thankyou for your reply Julio,first one on my first thread i think,looks like it will be 24 erm ish,18 spaces sorted 6ish to come


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## jfehr232

Good stuff man. What do you plan on keeping species wise?


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## stu&shaz

Julio said:


> where are you located?


Mate I have been in a typing photo bucket frenzy forgive me if I haven't answered all, yet mate, we are smack bang in the middle of England just out side a little village called Honeybourne(in the vale of Evesham)


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## Morgan Freeman

Ahh Stu you finally made it to posting here!

Can't wait to see this finished.


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## Julio

stu&shaz said:


> Mate I have been in a typing photo bucket frenzy forgive me if I haven't answered all, yet mate, we are smack bang in the middle of England just out side a little village called Honeybourne(in the vale of Evesham)



ah that explains the materials, i can not get any of those European companies to ship over to the US any frog rack materials. I am gonna have to improvise.


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## stu&shaz

jfehr232 said:


> Good stuff man. What do you plan on keeping species wise?


Not fully finalised yet buddy,probably gonna start with leucs,we love several auratus morphs(bronz giant,elcope etc)red/orange galacs,pum basti town,tincs azzie macheto regina,though we have been on this for a long time already our plan is to tread lightly and learn hard and slow,like i do most things,dream frogs are Histrionica(CAPTIVE BRED) of,cheers for your interest course but that is way way down the line ultimate goal would be in some tiny way to be able to help with some form of conservation,though there is a massive learning curve to be climbed first he he


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## stu&shaz

Julio said:


> ah that explains the materials, i can not get any of those European companies to ship over to the US any frog rack materials. I am gonna have to improvise.


These are not really frog type materials my friend, the response i have had over hear makes me guess not many have gone about this in the uk as we have if any (probably because I'm nuts, he he).Seriously though mate this was all bought from the...Aluminium Supplier | Aluminium Stock | Aluminium Warehouse (look for easifix ) There is only one place we can get this type of racking here unless we import, and we simply could not afford that,so we have worked round it,I bet you can get something real similar over there though as it is basically 1"ali tube 1/2" angle and 3/4" angle the connectors are the problem and the above company might ship have a crack.....do not underestimate the work though doing it this way,I did by maybe 5 fold and as I said I make things always have


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## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> Ahh Stu you finally made it to posting here!
> 
> Can't wait to see this finished.


 hey buddy thanks mate ya good? You know me mate wont stop till its sorted ha ha.


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## stu&shaz

AaronAcker said:


> Very very nice. Should be quite nice when finished


Thankyou Aaron


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## Julio

thanks for hte info, i will give them a try.


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## stu&shaz

alex111683 said:


> Subscribed for sure! Wish you two the best. I can't wait to see the results!!


Thanks mate I hope you are patient Im not the fastest on these things,cheers Alex all the best to you buddy


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## stu&shaz

frogface said:


> Wow, great work! Looking forward to watching you build this.


thankyou its a long old haul but soon we start to get to the real interesting stuff,well i hope soon.


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## laylow

Wow this thread is really blowing up! I love your racks, I've been wanting to build my own soon, this thread has been great to watch. Keep the pictures coming!!


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## stu&shaz

laylow said:


> Wow this thread is really blowing up! I love your racks, I've been wanting to build my own soon, this thread has been great to watch. Keep the pictures coming!!


No worries mate though the rest will be shall we say not quite so frenzied,cheers for the kindness on the racks, be lucky kiddo Stu


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## JeremyHuff

Julio said:


> ah that explains the materials, i can not get any of those European companies to ship over to the US any frog rack materials. I am gonna have to improvise.


Julio
I have a couple companies in the us who sell the materials. I'll located the links and post them here
J


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## Julio

Thanks Jeremy.


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## eos

I'll be following.... Great progress so far!


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## JeremyHuff

Julio said:


> Thanks Jeremy.


Julio,
This looked like a very promising site. Aluminum channel, extruded aluminum angle, anodized aluminum shapes, aluminum pipe, bar, tube, square tubing connector,aluminum channel, extruded aluminum angle, anodized aluminum shapes, aluminum pipe, bar, tube, square tubing connector, aluminum tu 

They have all the connectors too. Plus, I think they have aluminum track for sliding glass doors.

J


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## Julio

sweet! thanks again


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## Jason

Looking good!




Julio said:


> ah that explains the materials, i can not get any of those European companies to ship over to the US any frog rack materials. I am gonna have to improvise.





JeremyHuff said:


> Julio
> I have a couple companies in the us who sell the materials. I'll located the links and post them here
> J


Here is one. I have ordered from them with no hassle.

- Aluminum angle, Aluminum tube, Aluminum extrusions, Anodized aluminum, Aluminum pipe, Aluminum channel, Extruded Aluminum angle, brunner enterprises, Aluminum bar, aluminum rod, aluminum edging, aluminum tubing connectors, square tubing connector,


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## Julio

Thanks Jason same as the one Jeremy posted, do you have that kind of setup on in your frog room?


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## Jason

JeremyHuff said:


> Julio
> I have a couple companies in the us who sell the materials. I'll located the links and post them here
> J





Julio said:


> Thanks Jason same as the one Jeremy posted, do you have that kind of setup on in your frog room?


oops, missed that one. No I do not because it would also require some tank customization and I don't have the $ for all that!


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## stu&shaz

Thanks for all the kindness guys,julio,we have just looked at Jeremys link it appears very similar to the gear we have been using,although the connectors might actually be superior.There is cirtainly a wider range than we have available here in England!!!!!, but everything that you would need looks like it can be bought there......that is apart from the pvc foamboard,which we can only get in white


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## Julio

sweet, a little spray paint will take care of that white board


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## Jason

Julio said:


> Thanks Jason same as the one Jeremy posted


Here is another place. Email them for a price sheet, but they have square tubes that have the "fins" for the panels, but their connectors cost more. 

EZ Tube extruded aluminum tube and extruded tubing for boltless construction system.


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## Julio

Sweet, can always get the connectors from another source i guess.


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## JeremyHuff

Here is the other company Outwater.com
Outwater Catalogs - 2010 Master - page 162

I had their print catalog and I am sure they also had the panels.
J


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## stu&shaz

Julio if you can get the stuff with the fins on, do it, the amount of graft to put them on with the rivits is a total 'mare...we have no choice here,ha ha I thought that you guys would have a better choice than us over here, I thinks we have only 2 dedicated frog shops in the whole of the uk so choice is very limited. 
So as well as making these rack thingys we are also attempting to build our own vivs, erm and forever the ecowarrior we are using recycled glass,which is readily available here. I am taking a big risk here but what the hell needs must!! As you have already seen we have got the first one up and running so its doable. Again we are going along the lines of ent style vivs, i have no shame but we love the design....front opening doors,two vents, and a false floor,seems good so far, but of course way to early for a beginner to appraise. Just a few thoughts on glass cutting ...get a decent cutter...worth every penny, we do the usual score but because the glass is old I always tap the back of the cut gently so i have a degree of control over the crack that appears while tapping, that way if the crack starts to run "off" one can move along a bit to offset the damage. Of course these vivs need a few holes drilling for the misting system and the front drainage, so we use a diamond hole saw








We also cut a couple of templates out of perspex,one for each size of hole, this is the drainage hole at the front of the viv the template also(aswell as anchoring the drill means I can clamp to the edge and drill in the right place every time, it also allows me to put in a couple of marks so I can locate the front pieces of glass in the right place.Clamp it all up make a little "moat" out of plastacine and fill with water and gently drill every now and then lifting to allow the water to circulate,its acting as coolent and lube:


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## stu&shaz

As you can see I always use a bit of polystrene as a base to cushion everthing.
The base in our vivs is made up of 2 parts...i said i was using old glass and this is an attempt to offset this,the bottom bit is slightly larger across to carry the sides








The two are siliconed together paying attention around the drainage hole.Before the sides are attached a bead of silicon is placed on the created rebates and the edges of the back








the back and sides are held with some small bits of tape








here is a detail of the side sitting in place








Use your square frequently as you go ...better to find something wrong while the silicon is wet ha ha


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## stu&shaz

I now use the template to mark up the channel sides








and glue all the bits in to place....note that the little bits at the side nead to be ressed to allow the front vent to sit flush








We then leave everthing to dry before comming back around the next day and siliconing up everything properly,so i have silicon between all joints aswell as the bead running the corner.On this second day we also add the mesh and the rear top piece and of course the little plastic angles. 








Once everthing is dry the viv can be water tested and the fun bit of building the background can begin








Sorry guys i missed a stage...doh the false floor is added after the second siliconing with the mesh here ya go ...OOOPPPSSS








And finally Iknow this is a frog forum but I thought i would show ya a couple of pics of the project manager...my best mate...and constant source of joy he he(also hand feeds comes when called...sorry but thought a little livestock was in order and We don't have any frogs YET)


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## davidadelp

Pretty bird, what kind is it?


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## rcteem

wow...this is amazing!!!! Cant wait to see it finished...a new way to do frog racks...love it!!!


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## stu&shaz

Ha ha she,s/he's the english Robin David...you have an american version ours is much smaller,these are very bold,and maybe acouple of times in your life you get one like this whom decides your gonna look out for it(or your the mug,in my case who will dote on it and give it loads of food,even comes in the house), I am a carer the guy I look out for was amazed when we started calling and this lovely little bird flew up our garden and landed on my hand,rare thing this in a wild animal,I am very lucky...as i said maybe once or twice in a lifetime,heartbraking thing is they are very short lived, so maybe 1 or 2 seaons of this ...though we might get to know the kids he he.


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## stu&shaz

rcteem said:


> wow...this is amazing!!!! Cant wait to see it finished...a new way to do frog racks...love it!!!


Thanks Chris,though I take no credit the idea I borrowed shall we say from germany...glad you like it though.


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## Julio

Thanks, i am really excited to have something going like this.


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## Morgan Freeman

Love the Robin! They are exceptionally bold and inquisitive...and very territorial!

I had a nest in a plant pot in the garden this summer.


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## stu&shaz

Julio said:


> Thanks, i am really excited to have something going like this.


Cheers buddy,and its real cool for me to give a little bit back, have loved reading and learning from lots of the threads on here, just wish you were all in england he he lot easier to visit ha. long wat to go though buddy but it will be wonderfull to get the first frogs,Shaz really needs them ,now.


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## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> Love the Robin! They are exceptionally bold and inquisitive...and very territorial!
> 
> I had a nest in a plant pot in the garden this summer.


Mine has now taken to waiting for me to go out to the car to work,the minute I am spotted it starts shouting (you know that alarm call tick tick) I get that and then get mobbed, course the cold is having an effect i guess. Comes in the house if I have a day off, and as ya say chases everything else of its patch so cool. how many fledged?


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## stu&shaz

Got a few hours in over the last couple of days,managed to get some runners in and they are now installed,also sorted the lighting doors, 3mm pvc foam board, and finally am able to live out the childhood ambition of looking at the viv without trying to get past the lights, here ya go a couple of pics, runners were installed with a good dose of silicon:
















the above 2 vivs will move shortly to their permanant home once I have built the rack..he he








Thats all for the mo regards to all Stu.


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## GRIMM

Im gonna be the first to say this...Can we get some full tank shots please. They look amazing from far!


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## stu&shaz

GRIMM said:


> Im gonna be the first to say this...Can we get some full tank shots please. They look amazing from far!


Yes of course I will sort thar for you,Grimm ,no probs will go right through them tomorrow, absolutely shattered now, thanks for your kindness. Buddy we both draw/paint abit, your work on that pumpkin as absolutely breathtaking,honest mate topdraw, many congrats...so cool...yours Stu


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## stu&shaz

For GRIM
mate we thought it might be interesting for you to see the vivs before plants,these are vivs that are second hand after a heartbreaking story of a guy whose rack fell over and ahhhhhh man, anyway they are 40cm cubes, kinda 16" i think...... the last is a 60cm.....2' cube that we built as a prototype ....just to see if it could be done from rubbish, so this is just after the background is sorted.
Viv 1
40cm cube









Viv 2 also 40cube








viv 3 60cm cube


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## AaronAcker

WOW DO WANT, that is simply clean!


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## stu&shaz

And with the plants in that are taken as of today....
Viv 1
















viv2
























and finally our fist home made viv,from scratch out of rubbish so I will endulge myself here
































































oh and this is proper homemade all plants grown here so costs totally minimal both to me and our planet


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## PumilioTurkey

Lehmanni ist a good choice for a frog


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## stu&shaz

Sorry but forgot to mention, as said many times before, all vivs are currantly inhabited by various morphs of Oophaga lemanni plasticus, which is know to spontaneously fall off its perch and play dead please do not be alarmed by this trait!!!!


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## stu&shaz

AaronAcker said:


> WOW DO WANT, that is simply clean!


thenks kiddo lets hope the plants did not spoil it for you!!


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## stu&shaz

PumilioTurkey said:


> Lehmanni ist a good choice for a frog


We love them...even in this slightly sedate form, if you blink you will swear that they have moved!!!!!


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## GRIMM

Man that last tank is honestly one of my all time favorites. something about it just catches my eye the right way. Lots of different elevations, lots of moss, and lots of great small leafed plants. And Im definitely going to plant some of my oak leaf ficus so it can climb up a branch like you have done. Looks great.

What is that moss growing almost verticle down in the 3rd last picture, under the brom? And also, what is that tiny plant in the bottom-middle of the 2nd last picture? It almost looks like a tillandsia or something.


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## GeorgiaB

You guys have done an amazing job!! Cant wait to see some more pictures! Keep up the great work, especially the recycling 

Thanks,
Georgia


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## bronz

Great to see such innovation, especially from someone this side of the pond. Particularly enjoying the way you manage to make everything for nothing, I suppose that's patience paying off, I always want things now dammit, so I end up buying everything new.


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## Morgan Freeman

Hey Stu,

Reckon you have enough plants to fill all the vivs? 

Any idea on a finish date?

I've commented loads on the racks and the room but never on the actual vivs much, they are awesome. All the planning and growing plants has really paid off.


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## stu&shaz

GRIMM said:


> Man that last tank is honestly one of my all time favorites. something about it just catches my eye the right way. Lots of different elevations, lots of moss, and lots of great small leafed plants. And Im definitely going to plant some of my oak leaf ficus so it can climb up a branch like you have done. Looks great.
> 
> What is that moss growing almost verticle down in the 3rd last picture, under the brom? And also, what is that tiny plant in the bottom-middle of the 2nd last picture? It almost looks like a tillandsia or something.


Ahh mate I wish we could help you on the moss,its a native,(here middle of England), it is found growing in trees,up a bit off the ground,depending on the air flow through the patricular woodland one is collecting from....ours is always sourced from a couple of woods that there is very little chance of anyone spraying, I guess your choice in canada is much less subject to these pressures than here!! Now we beleive that the second plant you are looking at is...Oophiopogon japonica, but mate I don't see letters like most do so please forgive me if I have messed up ...also this is a 90% ID, have a look round, if it does not add up, mate I have so many plants on the go ...plus trying to build a room and reserch what the frogs need, I am not totally onit yet, so come back to me and I will get a definitive answer. It is basically a small grass only growing a couple or three inches high, he he but I know how to grow it and divide it !!


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## stu&shaz

GeorgiaB said:


> You guys have done an amazing job!! Cant wait to see some more pictures! Keep up the great work, especially the recycling
> 
> Thanks,
> Georgia


Cheers Gorgia, thanks for the compliments, he he the recycling is always how we do everything, just hate throwing stuff away,we have always been like this,our bed...our bathroom is all somebody else's rubbish...and we sleep in a monster 4 poster,and bath in a limestone palace (well it is to us), we in the west are so lucky!!


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## stu&shaz

bronz said:


> Great to see such innovation, especially from someone this side of the pond. Particularly enjoying the way you manage to make everything for nothing, I suppose that's patience paying off, I always want things now dammit, so I end up buying everything new.


Ha ha, not every thing mate wish I could make the lights!!! We never thought we were inovative, just the only way, mate thankyou, means hell of a lot!!


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## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> Hey Stu,
> 
> Reckon you have enough plants to fill all the vivs?
> 
> Any idea on a finish date?
> 
> I've commented loads on the racks and the room but never on the actual vivs much, they are awesome. All the planning and growing plants has really paid off.


Hey you old rascal how are ya mate?On the plants ...haven't a clue,will just keep at it.... no Idea whatsoever of a finish date, mate you know me I just keep trundling along, It is impossible for me to work to a time line as I have so so little time, what with me lady an all, but I have only ever looked at the next step on the ladder,don't get too scared that way!!! Yeah your right,I think, and you know full well what we think of your vivs, so you also know how much that means for our first vivs, dude cheers...the drinks are on you!!!


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## eos

Great looking vivs! Nicely done


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## Tex22seg

Wow that's amazing that makes me want to build one. Out of curiosity how much is this costing lol


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## stu&shaz

Tex22seg said:


> Wow that's amazing that makes me want to build one. Out of curiosity how much is this costing lol


Cheers for the kindness mate, real difficult to answer your Q. though, the racking is hellish even in the form we bought it, and of course can be done without. I am guessing, that the racks will be about 1/3rd of what ent would charge you, so about £300 for the first rack, the vivs are very cheep about £3.50/ £7 for silicon plus maybe £5 mesh(probably less) and runners about£6 So say £15 for a 60cm/2' cube of course glass also nothing ...rubbish heading for landfill,wood moss from local woodland...free, plants(home grown) so almost nothing, background: polystyrene nothing ...rubbish heading for landfill, rock o flex& elastopur expensive aprox £30 / tank, Lighting aprox £27 / tank. Might well add to the glass cost be using optiwhite for the uvb. Food: 1 culture bought of each and then bred.... ffs we now have around 40, beanweavils 3 very large... springtails 15/20 and 6 or so tropical woodlice all bought for around £5each. AND STILL NO FROGS ha ha


----------



## stu&shaz

eos said:


> Great looking vivs! Nicely done


Thanks again buddy!!


----------



## stu&shaz

2nd rack almost sorted, lighting doors and brackets installed,just waiting on a bit of foamboard for completion. Only a couple of temporary lights installed as we are doing some major "imputting" on the lighting front at present. Do any of you use LED lights for your frogs? Would love to hear from you if you do. Would also like to thank so many for making us so welcome cheers guys here's a rack for ya( oneday it will be frogs promise!!!)








regards all Stu


----------



## chinoanoah

Beautiful vivs. So jealous.


----------



## Morgan Freeman

UK frog meet as Stu's it is then


----------



## stu&shaz

chinoanoah said:


> Beautiful vivs. So jealous.


Thanks Noah, don't be jealous,we don't have any frogs to put in em, ha ha. Seriously mate thankyou, lets hope that when we finally are ready for frogs they like em as much as you!


----------



## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> UK frog meet as Stu's it is then


Yeah mate, I can see the headlines......"UK Frog Keepers converge on Fly Breeders House"....Hmmmmm!!! Ha but people would pay money to see me with that bird buddy. 
Seriously mate one day when we have something for you to look at other than a pile of ali and plastic, It will be a while ,we really want to think hard on the frogs and their accomodation, they are hopefully going to live long in these tanks ,really want to give them the best most suited/challenging environment we can. These things take time for a beginner...bring it on Stu


----------



## AaronAcker

Very nice looking... *I need more space for some racks like these lol.


----------



## therizman2

I have LEDs on quite a few of my tanks. Frogs dont seem to care either way, though I would think they appreciate the tanks not being heated up quite as much, plants seem to be doing just as well if not better than before. Many more of my orchids have begun to bloom since I started to use LEDs.


----------



## stu&shaz

therizman2 said:


> I have LEDs on quite a few of my tanks. Frogs dont seem to care either way, though I would think they appreciate the tanks not being heated up quite as much, plants seem to be doing just as well if not better than before. Many more of my orchids have begun to bloom since I started to use LEDs.


Kiddo thanks for reading and massive thanks for you response about the LEDs is it possible you could give us a link to the lights you are using,and how do the running costs compared with the lights you used before? Sorry for all the Q's but also could you tell me how deep are your tanks and which lights you used before? This is going to be one of our largest purchases,and also it is very important that i get the best for our charges when we get there.I am hugely interested in anything else you might have to say about them. Words will not really express my gratitude to your reply...THANKYOU Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

AaronAcker said:


> Very nice looking... *I need more space for some racks like these lol.


Thanks Aaron,he he we all need more space!! I wish we were closer to you guys,the American scene is so vibrant, thanks for all your kindness,it really helps me to keep grinding away at it,especially in this cold we are experiancing here...regards Stu


----------



## AaronAcker

Understand... A lot of people want to be closer to the US, but how many of us wish we had access to the hobbyists in Germany lol... Either way, very clean set up. If I got rid of 30 fish tanks that would give me room... hmmmmm lol.


----------



## stu&shaz

AaronAcker said:


> Understand... A lot of people want to be closer to the US, but how many of us wish we had access to the hobbyists in Germany lol... Either way, very clean set up. If I got rid of 30 fish tanks that would give me room... hmmmmm lol.


He he 30 fish tanks that would take up our house lol,oh desisions!!!Yes mate I suppose we are very fortunate that we ( English) can get both to the Germans and the Dutch there are some amazing things going on over in europe it seems, We cant wait 'till we are at the stage when it will be worthwhile for us to go to Hamm, someway on yet though!!


----------



## stu&shaz

havwe more to post but not tonite eh...just this MERRY CHRIMBO TO ALL HAVE a WONDERFULL BREAK GUYS cachya all soon don't care what ya faith is its just good will to all frogers Stu and Shaz (ha ha and even to the rest as well) 
MERRY CHRISMAS


----------



## mongo77

stu&shaz said:


> havwe more to post but not tonite eh...just this MERRY CHRIMBO TO ALL HAVE a WONDERFULL BREAK GUYS cachya all soon don't care what ya faith is its just good will to all frogers Stu and Shaz (ha ha and even to the rest as well)
> MERRY CHRISMAS


Thanks for the warm wishes and the same to both of you!!!


----------



## stu&shaz

Larry and everyone else hope you all had a wonderfull feastive time,sorry I haven't kept you all up to date,been a bit busy any way lets see if i can bring you all up to speed a bit;
We made up a little work top to do all the froggie chores on its vented at the back to allow the heat from the rad to disperse made out of rubbish a gain with a couple of hangman's for supports
















I also cobbled up a little cupboard for some of our ffs to live in it is lined out with polysyrene as is the whole wall and has a little vent to outside on the right wall, which we will utilise to extract any unwanted odours with a small pump if we need to.


----------



## stu&shaz

Right back to those 2 50x50x40cm vivs that you saw the early stages of building....tis background time
We first covered some of the vivs in cork but left the back open as it makes it easyier to see if there are any little gaps which frogs could get stuck in ,i intened in using expanding foam but our extreme weather prevented this so i carved the polystyrene to shape,first though the cork








and mounted a bit of goodol English oak to the left








and pressed some eco/peat mix (bone dry) into the wet silicone
















a small bit of poly supports this


----------



## stu&shaz

we then carved a pad for the rocks to sit on,when i finish carving the poly i run a heat gun over it, it gives a much harded surface to the ploystyrene,onto which i will use an ent product called rockoflex,and finish off with some epoxy resin which has the dry peat/eco mix pushed into it well still wet
all through the carving i was constantly thinking about drainage the stones are mounted with silicone








This was then mounted in place








messed around with a bit more carving on the right
















and mounted one of our prefabbed pots by the oak








We cover the pot in expanding foam...wait a bit then squish it down a bit,wear gloves,(oh and use the heatgun on the polystyrene outside ...fumes...sorry forgot), once the foam is dry i then cover in rockoflex and next epoxy/substrate and always try to have a few lying about in case i mix up too much of something keeps the waste down


----------



## stu&shaz

background pretty much complete








coated the background with rockoflex I did
























This viv will oneday hold a male high trio of Shaz's fav frog Azzies...yum yum love em,and the next is a viv to house some Machetos
















real useful having those back corners clear on this one so i could see








as you can see i had started to map out the floor and make all the bits of wood "sit" well


----------



## stu&shaz

wood in place








floor carved
















more carving on the back


----------



## Mitch

I'm drooling!


----------



## stu&shaz

we mounted one of our foamed pots 








and then worked up the right corner
















pretty much there








well i had a spare mo while the viv cured, i covered some filmpots in silicone and sub mix








The viv was then covered in rockoflex


----------



## stu&shaz

he he a livestock moment...Shaz has been busy with her flies i thought this was amazing so i thought you might aswell








Right back to the vivs,just a silly thing epoxy doesn't appear to adhear well to glass dispite my best efforts i have been unable to find a glass etching primer hear in the uk, so i make sure all polysyrene is sealed to the glass "and some", so when the rockoflex is covered the epoxy still covers and does not get to the glass, where it could lift off in time with the moisture.
So hear you are 2 vivs with their epoxy coat:wear gloves,work hard and fast ,have everything ready and checked, apply with a brush; work bottom to top, and have some thing else ready if you mix too much and finally make sure you have bone dry substrate to push into it.....sorry there was a lot there but its a useful checklist.
DA VIVS


----------



## stu&shaz

and the Azzie
























We then built the lid/top, i am having a bit of an experiment to see if i can rid these vivs of condensation on the top of the glass door so drilled 5 10mm holes across the front,the 2 set back are for misting nozzels if it doesn't work then i will simply cover with glass,any way i am getting ahead of my self cork notched for glass strips to carry mesh








and glass strips remember to remove the sharp edges on the bottom of these








mesh inserted and top added


----------



## stu&shaz

and then the runners are added...so 2 vivs minus doors the bit of foamboard is there to make sure i line all the runners up properly
































nearly there added some mesh to those little hole at the front








Cut and sanded the doors today but haven't had time to get pics,so your last pic for tonite use the bit of glass you cut out for the drain sets, filed smooth with a sharpening stone, as a door handle see i sold you i was silly about not wasting stuff








Sorry its late but
HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone,may your frogs breed well and your time to spend with them be long
REGARDS Shaz and Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Mitch said:


> I'm drooling!


ha ha thanks Mitch you made me laugh,litterally out loud


----------



## Julio

love the depth on the vivs!


----------



## stu&shaz

Thanks julio and for making us feel so welcome,can't wait to get planting!!
Knock up some doors,its worthwile spending some time rounding off the corners,makes them slide well.








when you run your silicone bead down the side to stop the ffs escaping a strip of tape helps to keep your bead straight...hopefully 
and the 2 vivs finally at home in their rack,chuffed we are








regards all Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

sorry guys got distacted by komodo dragons on the tv the rear door silicone should look like this


----------



## LRobb88

Wow I can't believe I just found this. This is possibly the most inspiring thread I've read so far here. Makes me want to build something! Awesome job Stu and Shaz. Beautiful.


----------



## boabab95

WOW!!!

can't wait to see those planted!!!


----------



## stu&shaz

LRobb88 said:


> Wow I can't believe I just found this. This is possibly the most inspiring thread I've read so far here. Makes me want to build something! Awesome job Stu and Shaz. Beautiful.


Logan thankyou that is too kind for a couple of beginners but genuinely appreciated,and yep thats the goal mate...go and build something Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

boabab95 said:


> WOW!!!
> 
> can't wait to see those planted!!!


 thanks dude well what else could we do but this:
Azzie viv Shaz's design for her favorite frogs all plants grown here,except native mosses and a little fern that is native here in England,we don't know whether the mosses will thrive so have included some tropical moss spores, although we have trialed these and our impressions are good.
































and the machetos viv
































both vivs with their glass doors
















and both vivs in their rack








We added a lot more twigs and leaves to our substrate this time in an effort to make the substrate drain better,the whole leaves that top it off are Oak(several varieties) and Clematis armandii
Stu


----------



## Julio

very well designed!!


----------



## AaronAcker

Looks great! Love the moss in those.


----------



## stu&shaz

AaronAcker said:


> Looks great! Love the moss in those.


Thankyou Aaron,lets hope it can cope with the constant warmth,time will tell ya good mate?


----------



## Arpeggio

I love how well those ledges and caves ended up blending! I'm envious!


----------



## stu&shaz

Arpeggio said:


> I love how well those ledges and caves ended up blending! I'm envious!


Thanks mate as a beginner the whole planting thing is a marvel to us,one starts with bits of polystyrene and ends up with this,we are still amazed by this process and probably always will be,again thankyou for you kind words
Stu&Shaz


----------



## AaronAcker

Yep time will tell.. And yeah good and busy lol, which is good.


----------



## stu&shaz

AaronAcker said:


> Yep time will tell.. And yeah good and busy lol, which is good.


ha ha tell me about it mate do you have the expression running around like a headless chicken...well thats me...work frogstuff/work/frogstuff,oh forgot...sleep Been cutting glass and building a new tank today me don't stop he he
Stu


----------



## ChucksNutz

stu&shaz said:


> do you have the expression running around like a headless chicken...
> Stu


We do, but here its running around like a chicken with its head cut off. BTW sweet setups. I am still looking and learning about how I plan on building my first vivarium, so I hope mine will look this good when I am done.


----------



## stu&shaz

ChucksNutz said:


> We do, but here its running around like a chicken with its head cut off. BTW sweet setups. I am still looking and learning about how I plan on building my first vivarium, so I hope mine will look this good when I am done.


thanks mate were are very much on this learning curve and this viv building lark is an amazing process,we just love doing it, am on the way to trying some rocks next, half way there actually if they come out 1/2 as good as some we have seen here we will be stoked,we will see,yippee another tank ready for water testing today...Stu


----------



## AaronAcker

stu&shaz said:


> ha ha tell me about it mate do you have the expression running around like a headless chicken...well thats me...work frogstuff/work/frogstuff,oh forgot...sleep Been cutting glass and building a new tank today me don't stop he he
> Stu


Yep we have the "running around like a chicken with its head cut off" expression, ironically I live in a town with a local festival for a chicken that lived a few years after its head go cut off... Funny.

And yeah know the feeling well, but for me frogs stuff = work, so its work, work, a little more work, blow off the g/f to do some more work, and then work after watching a game on the tv. lol. Been doing a ton of vert kits, so yeah right there with ya lol.

Tanks look good, plants look great, now just need some frogs.


----------



## stu&shaz

AaronAcker said:


> Yep we have the "running around like a chicken with its head cut off" expression, ironically I live in a town with a local festival for a chicken that lived a few years after its head go cut off... Funny.
> 
> And yeah know the feeling well, but for me frogs stuff = work, so its work, work, a little more work, blow off the g/f to do some more work, and then work after watching a game on the tv. lol. Been doing a ton of vert kits, so yeah right there with ya lol.
> 
> Tanks look good, plants look great, now just need some frogs.


He he mate it gets even stranger on the chicken front...I used to be a professional chicken keeper,looked after around 250 differing breeds of chuck,an dux an geese and turks,on a mad free range basis, all old pure breeds,anyway desparate for our frogs now mate, will have some soon though, just waiting till we can catch up with the breeder whom lives at the other end of our tiny country, about five mins over there i suppose am proper scared now that we haven't got everything right ,but i suppose thats the trade off with trying to learn first and then do,one knows some of the pitfalls that we could fall in to,thanks for the words about the tanks and especially the plants as we have been grinding them out for about...ahh man its 18 -20 months now....cant believe that!!! Slowly ...very slowly starting to get a hold on this mate,but so so much more to do and learn...what are the verts for kiddo?


----------



## stu&shaz

Hey guys,been very busy, plus had a few problems getting on here lately,I'm not good with computers so haven't a clue why ,anyway quite a bit been done made some lights up,they are 1200 lumen/meter(sorry),6500kelvin and run 15.6 watts /meter,aprox 9 meters of strip work of the one transformer,here ya go...transformer








and the LED stips mounted in there alichanel,which also acts as a heat sink,








Acouple of pics to show the leds in the rack
















we simply used velcro to stick the lighting channel on to the brackets we had already install in the rack.


----------



## stu&shaz

We also cobbled together another background this is mainly rocks.Again carved out of polystyrene, and covered in rockoflex ,and next coloured epoxy with a finish of different coloured rock dust,the dust comes as a paste which we dry its very pale,and its then coloured,total experiment tell us what you think,here are a few pics showing the rough method we used to get it sorted
























all carving done with a humble broken hacksaw blade,little tip wrap some tape around the end your holding,saves your fingers
































more comming>>>>>>


----------



## stu&shaz

Erm where were we
ha i know followed the usal method of running over the polystyrene with a heat gun (do outside ...fumes) this hardens up the poly. for the next stage,rockythangs put in viv for a looksee
















a bit of detail








Next the rocks were covered in grey rockoflex
























Any finally covered with epoxy and the said dust
















just a bit more...he he


----------



## stu&shaz

Rocks installed in the viv with a cork background
























Oh and we have also made some foam flowerpot planters, 








and at the end of this job i let my guard down for a few seconds,i had just cleaned out the gun,removed the can of cleaner ,took of my safety glasses ....looking over the gun before putting it away,i forgot that the gun contained pressureised cleaner,and opened the valve,filling both of my eyes,guys those few seconds of blindness well having my eyes burned and desparately trying to get to water will haunt me for a long time,the pain was almost indescribable,thank the lord it wasn't actual foam,that was Monday a trip to hospitol has sorted it and now i am good and very very lucky (but tired,ha whats new). 
please be careful please learn from my mistake,it is so easy to slip up. I am 47 have used dangerous tools most of my life, this was my first trip in an ambulance ...please be careful regards all Stu


----------



## Mitch

Looking good! Can't wait to see everything finished.


----------



## frogface

Love those polystyrene rocks!


----------



## aliciaface

WOWWEEEE. cant believe i havent stumbled on this post sooner, Stu you guys are doing such a top notch job!!!!! seriously keep up the good work, it is so awesome getting to follow along with your progress as well!! and those rocks look phenom!!! definitely going to try some of those out in a tank soon, ive been wanting to tear my 3 10s down and i must say i am psyched about trying that out.

cant say it enough, you guys are amazing!!!! good on ya!


----------



## stu&shaz

Mitch said:


> Looking good! Can't wait to see everything finished.


Thanks mate although your wait will probably be long,still 1/2 a mountain to climb,HA HA bring it on... but once we get to the frog stage which is very soon, now, it will be wonderfull,he he now i can't wait.
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

frogface said:


> Love those polystyrene rocks!


thanks kiddo for a total experiment and a first time they came out ok,and learnt masses about the hows and whys of doing it,great fun


----------



## stu&shaz

aliciaface said:


> WOWWEEEE. cant believe i havent stumbled on this post sooner, Stu you guys are doing such a top notch job!!!!! seriously keep up the good work, it is so awesome getting to follow along with your progress as well!! and those rocks look phenom!!! definitely going to try some of those out in a tank soon, ive been wanting to tear my 3 10s down and i must say i am psyched about trying that out.
> 
> cant say it enough, you guys are amazing!!!! good on ya!


Hey you ,Alicia thanks,proper kind we are having a blast at this, and make a good team as we both have different skills,Shaz is doing all the feeder breeding and will oversee the frogs daily chores,she is a cracking stockman,ya know she sees stuff!!! oh and kiddo have a ball with your 3 tens,he he the best of this is i get to make a horendous mess...and don't get told off,seriously the polystyrene gets everywhere, so i have a hover(vacume) beside me as i work and ware gloves when using the epoxy.
What frogs do you keep?
Seeya Stu


----------



## TExeter

*Cracking*

Red hot post and great photos.
Where did you get the stainless gauze from, i have been looking in the UK for ages for strips.

Cheers

T Exeter


----------



## stu&shaz

*Re: Cracking*



TExeter said:


> Red hot post and great photos.
> Where did you get the stainless gauze from, i have been looking in the UK for ages for strips.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> T Exeter


Goodday T mate i bought i sheet off a guy on ebay hmmm last year about this time i think,he's called odds'n' sodds,he is located in Brum,thanks for the words about the thread
Stu


----------



## NRF

Fantastic job there Stu! What a wonderful ride this thread has been, an absolute joy to read. Terrific combination of new construction and "second chance" material usage. The room is coming along beautifully. 

Close call with the cleaner there. Good to hear you are no worse off for it. 

Following along from here. Very best of luck to you both!


----------



## stu&shaz

NRF said:


> Fantastic job there Stu! What a wonderful ride this thread has been, an absolute joy to read. Terrific combination of new construction and "second chance" material usage. The room is coming along beautifully.
> 
> Close call with the cleaner there. Good to hear you are no worse off for it.
> 
> Following along from here. Very best of luck to you both!


yeah mate very fortunate,that will haunt me for a while,our sight is such a gift. Thankyou for the words on the thread, tis a blast,ha we have knocked out 11 hours nearly, of froggy stuff today we are both half asleep. Tis my day off,still so much to do mate,i guess there will be some photos about next 2or3 days,got work then another good day tomorrow. whats your name? 
and the best to you and yours 
Stu


----------



## smilin-buddha

Incredible. I have thought that using those tubes would make logical Arboreal cages for snakes


----------



## stu&shaz

smilin-buddha said:


> Incredible. I have thought that using those tubes would make logical Arboreal cages for snakes


Thanks mate,but confused over the last bit do you mean the ali tube racks,if so then yeah i think they would be great,a guy over here has already contacted us about the use of this style racking for his Chameleons i don't see any reason that this system could not be used for snakes,but will qualify that with haven't a great deal of knowledge to back that up,just feel that it is the actual enclosure that will be the most important.


----------



## NRF

stu&shaz said:


> yeah mate very fortunate,that will haunt me for a while,our sight is such a gift. Thankyou for the words on the thread, tis a blast,ha we have knocked out 11 hours nearly, of froggy stuff today we are both half asleep. Tis my day off,still so much to do mate,i guess there will be some photos about next 2or3 days,got work then another good day tomorrow. whats your name?
> and the best to you and yours
> Stu


Thank _You_ for the kind words Stu. We certainly appreciate you taking the time to make this thread and post pics of your project for us all to enjoy. 

Carry on good Sir, we are all looking forward to the next round of pictures. 

Oh, and it's Richie by the way.


----------



## stu&shaz

NRF said:


> Thank _You_ for the kind words Stu. We certainly appreciate you taking the time to make this thread and post pics of your project for us all to enjoy.
> 
> Carry on good Sir, we are all looking forward to the next round of pictures.
> 
> Oh, and it's Richie by the way.


Hey Richie,nah mate tis me(us) thats greatful,have had loadsa help from you guys across the pond,i just wish,i was a bit quicker about things but then i guess one works to one's pace so here is i bit of sillyness but you never know it might work.(referring to the azzieviv lollipops)
Ah bless she has worked her self hard all day for a sick lady she just don't stop well she has now and she is fast asleep beside me....actually putting my snoring to shame
Shaz fav frog is the Azzie so we are making 2 vivs for them,one you have already seen, and because i can't remember how or what i have showed ya i have gotta stop for a mo to catch up with myself,back in a mo.


----------



## stu&shaz

So here ya go,Shaz's second azzie viv,again very open at the base i am trying to build as best i can to her design,on seeing the first rocks for the second 2'cube(more in a mo.) Shaz wanted a pile of stones so here are some shots,the loolipops we be revealed soon,ha ha
basic cork background a bit of good ol' English oak and the snowballs will be the stones

















then we cover the left riased area with rockoflex,these i am informed will be covered in large sheets of moss(OH ECK)








the stones were covered on a grey version of the rockoflex as per the last rocks(well they look like lolipops to me








Unfortunately our plans for these have been slightly derailed as the rockdust is not dryenough to use yet but still,its worth saying again how useful it is to have those planters ready foamed up here are the wastage if i didn't have them prepared








So we will move away from the azzie to the rocky viv this is a 2'cube,basically had a couple of planters added,then the viv build completed,and here is the massive step,got it moved in one piece to the rack,as you are probably aware we are using old rubbish glass to build our vivs,so when one gets to the rack especially of this size,it is a huge cause for celebration,and happy i am,one viv in the rack
























Oh and totally left field of the vivs, i love the concept of trying to use whats available to us in England,as you have already seen with our oak and lonicera here are some mosses and liverworts that have been in the warmth,under lights for only a few weeks now but they seem to love a cosseted life,whether they will be able to withstand life without any cold i don't know yet but my biggest hope is for the fern 2nd from left. It is called Polypodium vulgare ,when Shaz was well we used to work growing ferns at batsford aboureatum,this if the fern that never rotted off ,and it is also quite small,ideal as a viv plant...I hope








Good night all we have a huge day tomorrow so better get some shut eye
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Here you go guys one finished well i will probably play with it a bit more,ha ha i only planted it yesterday and already found a space for an orchid.
















and a complete shot of the 2 planted tanks in the rack








And in this case,saving the best till last......we started growing and planning this around well just a bit under 2 years ago,and finally after having a blast cobbling stuff up not being able to see our kitchen table through the last 2 winters for plants,having the house filled with probably enough feeder cultures to feed a hundred little frogs we are now the proud owners of 5 little herbuts,breed by Paul H for all you guys from this side of the pond,whom has gone out of his way to help and advise us and has done such a wonderful job of breeding and rearing them, so i am back as a phibster again after a small gap of aprox 30 years,here are some pics(lol i am sure there will be more) of our little leucs,they started feeding within about an hour of getting home, and we are overthe moon with them,ok enough pontificating ....just so long and so so pleased,here ya go
























This is why they are herbs...Happy thyme
























yeah i know we are soft naming them but its a great way of id. ing them quickly once i can get a pic of 5spice it will become even more clear why herbs, so on that slightly nutty note i'll say good night all 
be lucky guys Stu


----------



## Woodsman

Please DO NOT show these photos of your viv to my leucomelas! They would have a total [email protected] fit! Good, good job!

Take care, Richard.


----------



## stu&shaz

Woodsman said:


> Please DO NOT show these photos of your viv to my leucomelas! They would have a total [email protected] fit! Good, good job!
> 
> Take care, Richard.


Richard thanks mate,very kind and had us both in fits of laughter, so double thanks,still chucklin'
S&S


----------



## madran2

Wow looks awesome!


----------



## Vagabond324

WOW, great thread, love your Vivs. Will have to study your posts some more. Could you tell me a bit about this stuff you call Rockoflex and also just how did you attach your Broms and plants into your lastest viv photos they look like they are so natural. All the best, Jon


----------



## stu&shaz

madran2 said:


> Wow looks awesome!


thankyou mate


----------



## stu&shaz

Vagabond324 said:


> WOW, great thread, love your Vivs. Will have to study your posts some more. Could you tell me a bit about this stuff you call Rockoflex and also just how did you attach your Broms and plants into your lastest viv photos they look like they are so natural. All the best, Jon


Mate thankyou, its a grounding product made by a german company(we are in England) called ent i guess similar to tile grout but i couldn't be sure of frog safe tile grout here plus it works well to provide a base for the epoxy...again no info...so we use this as it should be ok,as its sold for this job and to be used for frogs.we grow our pups on abit, in moss, then dry them off abit and use frog safe silicome to glue in place plus a bit of moss to create a little localised constant damp just to get them started really the viv humidity should do the rest,and it looks natural too.So we stick them in first and leave to dry for a few hours then get on with the rest,that way once we have planted said tank i can chuck water everywhere to settle the plant roots down,and also make sure all the brom vases are full of water,the cork takes a while to absorb moisture so i spray loads at first. Seems to work so far,please remember i am a beginner,and thanks for the kind words


----------



## VicSkimmr

Wow very impressive set up! Is that just typical cork used for the background? It looks a lot darker than what I see around here.


----------



## stu&shaz

stu&shaz said:


> Mate thankyou, its a grounding product made by a german company(we are in England) called ent i guess similar to tile grout but i couldn't be sure of frog safe tile grout here plus it works well to provide a base for the epoxy...again no info...so we use this as it should be ok,as its sold for this job and to be used for frogs.we grow our pups on abit, in moss, then dry them off abit and use frog safe silicome to glue in place plus a bit of moss to create a little localised constant damp just to get them started really the viv humidity should do the rest,and it looks natural too.So we stick them in first and leave to dry for a few hours then get on with the rest,that way once we have planted said tank i can chuck water everywhere to settle the plant roots down,and also make sure all the brom vases are full of water,the cork takes a while to absorb moisture so i spray loads at first. Seems to work so far,please remember i am a beginner,and thanks for the kind words


sorry mate missed abit,most of the plants are located in our foamed up pots but as this developes i find we are making places a tad more natural by creating little hollows ect with a view to planting,i guess drainage will be very important to some plants which is far easier achieved
with the foamed pots.
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

VicSkimmr said:


> Wow very impressive set up! Is that just typical cork used for the background? It looks a lot darker than what I see around here.


cheers Vic i bought a job lot of ebay,i beleive they came from Portugal,ha we're English i must have been very lucky i have had endless people ask about them though it took along while of watching before i got them


----------



## stu&shaz

nearly complete on the 2nd Azzie viv,stones coated up in epoxy etc,made the holes in the viv above the doors slightly bigger in an effort to remove the condensation on the doors
























things are pretty tight for space here at presant here are some of our plants that have come out of the frog room as the vivs start to go in,can't wait till it gets warmer here and they can go outside in the greenhouse this is our kitchen table








take care guys Stu


----------



## Mitch

Nice! What's the fern closest to us in the picture with the feathery fronds?


----------



## dartboard

Every time I see a new frog room I upgrade my vision of what I will someday have.... and now I stumble upon this thread..... is there no end? Will I always be wanting it better and wanting more?

Okay you guys.... name the price it would take to fly you guys out to america for a month to build me a frog room!!!


----------



## Vagabond324

Wow, never thought to use silicone to mount the Broms, I figured that it would damage the plants in some way. Anyway, Job well done. It's bang on! Jon


----------



## stu&shaz

Mitch said:


> Nice! What's the fern closest to us in the picture with the feathery fronds?


Mitch i should be shot as i used to grow ferns for me job,although they were all temperate so i spose thats a let off,mate i am told they are boston whay i can tell you is they need airflow or they will rott off,so in our case using this style of viv near the front,with very free draining compost and you might get away with it,they put out little suckers which are rooting into the cork tiles,hope this help a little 
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

dartboard said:


> Every time I see a new frog room I upgrade my vision of what I will someday have.... and now I stumble upon this thread..... is there no end? Will I always be wanting it better and wanting more?
> 
> Okay you guys.... name the price it would take to fly you guys out to america for a month to build me a frog room!!!


ha ha thats a pretty apealing offer we would come just for the crack,Shaz has never been off our tiny island!!! 
As to the room cheers mate he he half of it is rubbish too ie stuff that guys throw away, thanks kiddo. Am also in your way of thinking how can i make it better for the frogs.... as a beginner its real difficult to way everything up on an undertaking like this,but i have waited a long time to do this and am pretty driven...Shaz being sick is a big catylist,so slowly this is a little boy's dream gradually turning into reality(i kept a few phibs as a kid).
Finally having some frogs to care for is just the icing on the cake,one can do anything if one wants it enough,so one day you will have your room too mate,just don't let anything get in your way
be lucky mate 
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Vagabond324 said:


> Wow, never thought to use silicone to mount the Broms, I figured that it would damage the plants in some way. Anyway, Job well done. It's bang on! Jon


Thanks Jon the silicone is applied to the stem of the pup(where it joined to its parent),as the pup roots this will rot so there shouldn't be any probs for the brom thanks mate we are learning slowly but surely 
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

wow doesn't time fly,hey ya all no we haven't stopped just been doing thats all,better get ya'll up to scratch,alot has happened!!
first up is the planted up 2nd azzie viv
















our little leucs are doing great by the way maybe more of them later.A few weeks ago our only dart specialist shop in the uk brought some frogs over from germany,the all sold very quickly ,he had some camo auratus that we had never seen before,which were already reserved.I took Shaz out for a day trip,just so we could see them,i am not even sure that there are any others here,at all. So yeah we fell in love with them we have managed to trace tham back to marc pepper and understory.Well i guess you have worked out that the guy whom reserved them did not collect. So a week later we are the proud owners of 3 camo's. one is diffinitly a fella i have seen and heard him call,he is also bold,the other 2 are quite shy,but now some weeks one they are slowly becomming more visable,I'm actually amazed that the fella has not been more phazed by all the travelling it must have been hell for them,what is striking is that they have 2 very different colour patterns we have 2 that carry alot of blue and one way more bronze








this is the only pic of the dark one,although i am getting closer to him/her,ha caught it sunbathing this morning.
our fellaI think he's called zorro








and some pics of Z taken a few days ago
























I was told these will make quite large frog and to feed the hell out of them untill they are really mature,no probs with this guy he is a veracious hunter,very fast and agile and now quite large,i guess 5cm(say 2") but this seems too big so maybe its our eyes playing tricks but he is a stonker.
back in a mo.


----------



## stu&shaz

Closing down on another 3 vivs too,the first up is a big deal to me ,i see this as the biggest challenge so far,it for pums,and as the kids have to be reared in here as well its this that makes for alot to think of.I would like to thanks Phil tony and Rich elsewhere for all their help getting my head around this and the actual morph,the cematary morph of bastimentos.
note our english oak predrilled for lots of broms,a much deeper cork ledge at the front for a greater depth of sunstrate to hold all that smal grub. the planters will hold mainly large leaved plants,and the clouds will be utilised to hang our native lonicera off as passageways for the frogs to moveabout.this viv will be topped off with a low iron glass called optiwhite to max available uvb to our little friends.These frogs are along way off yet but i need this viv sorted for room reasons,and i want to start building the micro fauna up,so no bad thing
the second viv is for a group of 5 auratus,the basic premise will be to have lots of overhanging plants along the back providing lots of hidaways,coupled with the best bit of oak we have yet found which will provide hiding towards the front
The 3rd viv will house tinc citronella if i can find some here,note the stump has been drilled out for a planter and we are trying to max the floor area for them to utilise while still giving a decent climbing frame.
build notes:any where where foam will touch glass silicone has been applied to get a better stick.
pics
pum
















































auratus
































and the citron








































back in a mo with the foam stage


----------



## stu&shaz

ok adeed in the foam,wear eye protection,wear gloves, remember one can work the foam if you catch it right just after the skin has formed
Pum
























Auratus
















citronella
























then the rockoflex is added a grounding product from germany
pum
















auratus
















and more or less finally the citronella















and a few frogs maybe?
luecs
5spice








Happy the boldest leuc and a definite boy caught calling often we definitly have 2 boys
















and PIEprika cause she eat all the flies lol,she is a big girl now well if she isnot a girl i will be very surprised
































ha i reckon thats about enough for one night 
belucky guys 
Stu


----------



## coraltastic

wow tanks look super nice really hope i can do something this nice one day.


----------



## stu&shaz

thankyou and yeah you can...go for it
stu


----------



## stu&shaz

finished up the background in epoxy,and eocearth peat,and erm rockdust on the rock








and after a wash








the rest of the citrons viv
























the pum viv








and finished up with lonicera
























and auratus
















ha even got the top on the pum viv with 6 holes drilled and the vent,time to sleep...
night all 
take care
Stu


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Any more detail on the fake rocks Stu? Do you know if they would increase Ph if used underwater? 

Those Auratus are beuatiful, how shy/bold are these guys?


----------



## stu&shaz

hey mate ya good,same method as last time Paul
carve polystyrene
heatgun polystyrene
cover in rockoflex
cover in pigmented epoxy resin(which is a no go for you unfortunately we used a black pigment this bleeds through the rock dust so giving a slight colour variation)
apply said rock dust...this can also be pigmented if required. 
well in thoery the dust is mainly granite which i think is imprevious to water i AM guessing wouldn't affect ph.
Ha but unless they were stuck down they would float,this one was very much spur of the moment but looks ok,the pebbles in the azzie viv are a bit more authentic,and they mess with you because they look like stone(even cool to touch) and feel like it but when you pick them up there is so little weight,its weird!!
Stu


----------



## jausi

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU ROCK!!!!! 

THIS IS A GREAT THREAT 

thank you very much for sharing all this 

the last tank you made with it's my favorite I can wait to see it planted


----------



## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> YOU ROCK!!!!!
> 
> THIS IS A GREAT THREAT
> 
> thank you very much for sharing all this
> 
> the last tank you made with it's my favorite I can wait to see it planted


ha thankyou have you seen me play drums then,lol. Seriously though thanks , i wonder if your opinion will change once they are planted,its the simplicity of the last that grabs me too,shame the photo doesn't do it justice really was late and i was shattered,i wish i could find more oak like that bit of wood
regards
Stu


----------



## erlese

I knew there was something about England I loved!!  
Can I offer you a lifetime of twinnings and free ( virgin train passes from Euston station)
for just one viv??? Joke!

But seriously!! Your VIVS are Amazing. You really replicated the " Natural, tropical look"
My poor frogs. I have to keep them away from this thread. They may ask you to sponsor them.


----------



## Kaity

I was wondering what exactly the background panels on your vivs is called? Is that coco panel? Where did you buy it from? It looks really nice.


----------



## stu&shaz

erlese said:


> I knew there was something about England I loved!!
> Can I offer you a lifetime of twinnings and free ( virgin train passes from Euston station)
> for just one viv??? Joke!
> 
> But seriously!! Your VIVS are Amazing. You really replicated the " Natural, tropical look"
> My poor frogs. I have to keep them away from this thread. They may ask you to sponsor them.


Ha David,am not sure whether to thankyou most for the compliments,the laugh,or the offer of TEA,its very difficult for us to get that authentic jungle look as we have never travelled much.But we both,draw paint,and so i guess we really study with our eyes,ha totally off topic but here's a Panda that i cobbled up a while back,never seen China either,








but it kind of illustrates what I'm saying,as i guess this is whats behind why so many say such kind words about our vivs,am very grateful for your words
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Kaity said:


> I was wondering what exactly the background panels on your vivs is called? Is that coco panel? Where did you buy it from? It looks really nice.


Hi Kaity,maybe you need to back track through this thread a bit to find out the hows and whys of how we make these,I have tried really hard to show how we put these together pretty much from scratch as this info was lacking to us here in good ol blighty,no not coco panels we use a cork tile as the base surround ie front and top,and then a number of techniques :carved polystyrene,expanding foam,and prefoamed planters to create the landscape rocks and features of our vivs,almost every planter has some form of drainage as i believe this helps the plants emensly,(years of growing stuff).The expanding foam/polystyrene is then coated with a german product called rockoflex,and finally with a mix of ecoearth and peat,the ecoearth is a coco fiber product,so no its not really bought in the sense of preformed.But we make stuff,a good part of what this thread is about is showing that one can make something HOPEFULLY cool to look at largely recycled and on a shoestring budget.
thanks I am chuffed you like them,ha lets hope the frogs think the same
regards
Stu


----------



## stevenhman

Definitely an awesome thread! Keep up the good work!

Was it easy to rivet the aluminum together?


----------



## stu&shaz

stevenhman said:


> Definitely an awesome thread! Keep up the good work!
> 
> Was it easy to rivet the aluminum together?


Thanks Steve,i used pop rivits(i don't know whether they go by the same name over there),so its all done by hand,so not difficult,but slow and labourious...taxing ,i guess is the right way of putting it,its just a matter of self discipline and maintaining accuracy,the jigs and clamps help alot here!!
I can't stress enough the importance of using big enough rivits though,eventhough it makes the job a bit harder to achieve,hope that helps Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> Any more detail on the fake rocks Stu? Do you know if they would increase Ph if used underwater?
> 
> Those Auratus are beuatiful, how shy/bold are these guys?


Sorry mate i missed the second bit,auratus... one quite bold,2 extremely shy but we're getting to see more of them slowly,still bunging alot of grub at them though, so they are feeding early in the morn,before I have me eyes open,but its comming slowly.
Stu


----------



## stevenhman

Thanks Stu!

I had no idea that each hole had to be pre-drilled before riveting! That is a lot of work.

Did you silicone or epoxy the door channel in? (for the sliding doors to access the lights)

Again, excellent work - I learned a lot about making one of those racks!


----------



## stu&shaz

stevenhman said:


> Thanks Stu!
> 
> I had no idea that each hole had to be pre-drilled before riveting! That is a lot of work.
> 
> Did you silicone or epoxy the door channel in? (for the sliding doors to access the lights)
> 
> Again, excellent work - I learned a lot about making one of those racks!


Hi Steven,yeah a huge amount of work,astounding actually how much there is, its only when you start adding it all up that the numbers really start to get scarey,that said I am one of those old school guys ,if ya want it then do whatever to make it happen,and these racks are a long term investment,well worth the effort i think,just one small one to make a bit later on when I have finished work on all the end vivs.
yes we used frogsafe silicone for attaching both the runners and the white board at the ends.
Mate am really chuffed guys are getting something from this its a cool thing, I learn off you experianced froggers,and am able to chuck a tiny bit back. 
Its what these forums are all about for me ha and to have a laugh too!!
Be lucky mate
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Racked and stacked,another 3 recycled vivs make it to the room,in one peice,
so the above lit pretty much how they will be,with the exception of the uvb bulbs which we are still putting the finishing touches to their mounting system
Pum








and with the initial planting








and in Da rack









Citronella








planted








auratus








initial planting,ha will the moss grow back....yeah course it will...fingers crossed








and by symptoms of fate...not all good ..or if you want the glass half full version,by sheer good fortune
panama specials in Qt,future residents of 3rd viv
































and citronella
residents to be...ahh you don't need that
























We have also been at work on a rainwater harvesting system...first pot contains a pillow case to catch any debris,second pot contains a 3 stage filter fine activated charcoal,and course,not completely there yet but good results,a work in progress here!!








and finally the uvb aspect,the back portion, top,of our vivs will now be made of optiwhite glass (which lets uvb through),with a corresponding bulb at the rear of the vivs,the idea is that if a frog wants it will be able to move to a sunlit area,if not, there will still be areas for diurnal hunting not being zapped by uvb,of course this is mainly thoery for me a beginner,but watching my auratus sunbathing in the very early morning as a shaft of sunlight catches his viv,and Marcus's (M works) histrionica thread have compelled me to do this me,its always a case of observation leading experimentation with me,a brief shot of the top of the viv, so all is clear optiwhite at the back behind the vent,leading to 3 different levels of uvb in a simplistic way!!








Finally a thankyou to Doug and his lad frog boy on here,for inspiring me to:
1 get some giant orange isos
2culture my springs on charcoaland 
3 make an edible substrate for my woods/isos
cheers lads,everything is kicking ass
be lucky all in the big ol usa
from little England
Stu


----------



## jausi

wow!!!!!!!!!

This rooms is amazin!!!!!! congrats, very well done


----------



## mordoria

wow, amazing system. I cant wait to get the room to build my own!

Stu, I see that you're worried about uvb. I dont think you have to worry about the uvb because its not important to frogs, like it is for reptiles. Not one frog tank I have seen, uses UVB lights. 
Also, be careful of sunlight hitting the glass. It can raise temperature in the tanks 10degrees in 10 minutes. Temperature spikes like that can be dangerous.

You seem to have it all under control.

Once again, AMAZING!!!


----------



## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> wow!!!!!!!!!
> 
> This rooms is amazin!!!!!! congrats, very well done


Thankyou,alot of graft but loving every minute,trouble is i am starting to want to be dwelling in there,when i should be doing more work,getting there though i think
cheers
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

mordoria said:


> wow, amazing system. I cant wait to get the room to build my own!
> 
> Stu, I see that you're worried about uvb. I dont think you have to worry about the uvb because its not important to frogs, like it is for reptiles. Not one frog tank I have seen, uses UVB lights.
> Also, be careful of sunlight hitting the glass. It can raise temperature in the tanks 10degrees in 10 minutes. Temperature spikes like that can be dangerous.
> 
> You seem to have it all under control.
> 
> Once again, AMAZING!!!


Firstly,thankyou for your kindness,as you already know despite the size of our undertaking we are very very much beginners,and hugely appreciate all comments, as far as the sun hitting the glass,i used to shut a blind to block this,but a disscussion with a scientist(whom is also a dartster over here in the uk) made me think real hard,he said that very early morning sun is not responsible for the drastic temperature changes that are experianced later in the day,and i think he might be right.We monitored these early morning temps extremely carefully,on cloudless sunny mornings as we absolutly had the same fears as yourself,which i am genuinely greatful you pointed out.
But evreything is fine there is only a tiny shaft of sun that wonders across the vivs and temperatures move very little.My next observation kinds of leads us to the uvb debate.Early morning my auratus male sunbathes,standing high on his legs in the shaft of sunlight,if the other 2 weren't quite so shy (i only see them dissapear but its getting there slowly) i'd bet they were there beside him.I think they are telling me something!! Marcus...Mworks is using optiwhite glassdoors,he pops a uvb in front of the doors,his frogs come out and bask ...when he did the same with no uvb bulb just a normal light no responce,uvb bulb back in...out they came...this says alot to me. Buddy i am utterly a beginner at darts,i have a childs experiances of keeping amphibians,and 20 plus years as a bird stockman,to draw on which honestly counts for not much in this field,but what i have learnt is to react to my animals behaviour,and i find the above compelling...utterly compelling.Is uvb essential ,i don't honestly know,many of my friends don't use it.Do i think it might have benefits that i can't back up because i am a novice...HELL YEAH
So this is why i have kind of sat on the fence with half the top with a uvb penertrable glass and half not.If our frogs want it then its up to them,they can get away if they don't like it...fascinating though is it not?
thanks so much for you words,all these little kindnesses are keeping us driven to be as good a dart keepers as possible,and man don't they help when 'im outside in the middle of winter cutting bits of glass or ali
thankyou Mordoria
Stu


----------



## mordoria

cool, I just read through the post by Mworks. Id love to try the uvb experiment as well. Ill have to look into our UVB glass here in the states. I totally understand not getting any work done. Everytime I pass my tanks I have to peek in and say hi to all my froggies.
Once again, I LOVE your room and your tanks. Great stuff.


----------



## stu&shaz

mordoria said:


> cool, I just read through the post by Mworks. Id love to try the uvb experiment as well. Ill have to look into our UVB glass here in the states. I totally understand not getting any work done. Everytime I pass my tanks I have to peek in and say hi to all my froggies.
> Once again, I LOVE your room and your tanks. Great stuff.


ha clever bloke ain't he,if it helps at all Optiwhite is made by pilkington glass,what is important it seems is you are looking for a low iron content in the glass best of luck with all mate your frogs and your life cheers for the kindness,its a blast this froggy thing as you well know
regards Stu


----------



## jausi

[i am a novice...HELL YEAH
Stu[/QUOTE]

Your a novice and your able to bluid that amazin room, I wish I could do at least half of the work you did  
congrats again and good luck with the UV light,I think is a good Idea, your frogs seem to enjoy it


----------



## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> [i am a novice...HELL YEAH
> Stu


Your a novice and your able to bluid that amazin room, I wish I could do at least half of the work you did  
congrats again and good luck with the UV light,I think is a good Idea, your frogs seem to enjoy it[/QUOTE]

yes,Jausi,very much a novice,there are so many facets to this dart thing,sometimes its almost overwhelming.ok i have learnt how to build racks and glass skills to make these recycled vivs (drawing on a lifetime of making stuff),and am also able to draw on many years af growing plants, but the actual darts are what this is all about. As is so often the case the more you learn,serves to graphically illustrate how much you don't know. All said and done although i kept amphibians as a child for several years,we only got our first darts on feb 25th this year.
 Am running around like a headless chicken at presant as our group of 3 superblue auratus are laying and it has caught us both totally by surprise,but i thought.... "we have a bit more time as they won't be fertile for a few clutches",nope...WRONG... 2nd clutch good,one tad out of 5 and doing ok i think and more on the way,one lot developing,another batch laid today, help is a word that springs to mind.
So hell yeah  very much beginners but grafting away at it,thanks for the encouragement mate,what a rush this dartkeeping lark is.
Oh guys i think usa low iron glass might be called "Starfire"
be lucky 
regards
Stu


----------



## jausi

Wow!!! 

Congrats Stu, having tads it's a really good sign, your going the right direction, good luck with your frogs, do you have any updates from yor room and the uv light ?


----------



## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> Wow!!!
> 
> Congrats Stu, having tads it's a really good sign, your going the right direction, good luck with your frogs, do you have any updates from yor room and the uv light ?


Hey buddy, we are tracking the tad developement,so are amassing a few pics,i do have some updates to make,but its all keeping me so busy,i will get some stuff up very soon,i want to show where the vivs are at,possibly compared to when they were planted.
as far as the uvb /optiwhite,this is something we are just starting to impliment the last 3 vivs have this feature as will all future builds,but none of these have frogs in yet so there isn't much more i can show,as we learn so hopeful improvements will be implimented.
I'll try and get more up later,just stopped for grub
I think the tads are a good sign,the frogs seem strong healthy active and er happy,i have read somewhere that stress can also trigger breeding,but i am truely hoping that its the former. We are seeing no signs of stress apart from a newly aquired citronella male,whom simply hates his quarrantine tub, constantly scaling the sides trying to get out.So we have decided to take a gamble and put him and his lady in a viv,we have set up for azzies,i have built a viv for the citrons but its only just been set up,
take care
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Some randomness
First up some of our tanks 
Leucs as planted








recently








and happy and the pielady a couple of the group of 5 we have 2 definite males of which happy is the most vocal








superblue auratus
as planted








yesterday
with its inhabitants,i'll take a FTS later
Zorro...dad








"the dark one",poss female








and a clutch of their eggs we also have another frog that is super shy,i believe its her that is laying...we only see her just before eggs appear
"Ickle mate" our very first tad...bless








This viv was meant to be for azzies but becuase our citronella male is stressing so much,in his QT tub we have decided to pop them in here....a big risk but i hope its for the best
just planted,aroun feb i think








and yesterday








i'll get some pics up of the citronella shortly,want to let them settle
Azzie viv
planted around april








and now








some pics of the last 3 vivs planting pretty much complete...er we think
Panama special auratus








Cematary Basti Pumillio








and what was to be the citronella viv,but which will now house....hmmmm








catch ya later
Stu


----------



## Mworks

Growing in nicely Stu! What's the black lid for in the second photo?

Regards
Marcus


----------



## stu&shaz

Mworks said:


> Growing in nicely Stu! What's the black lid for in the second photo?
> 
> Regards
> Marcus


Cheers Marcus,getting there slowly,mate we used to black lid as a feeding station,for the first couple of weeks,after getting the luecs(our first frogs),but removed it later,one of those beginner concearns that was unfounded,its actually something now i wouldn't do,one of the main reasons against its use was the fact that if the frogs get scared, their flight mechanism seems to be to dive(downwards)under the leaflitter,and eventhough the lid is only say an inch high they appeared to get stuck. To be honest mate i would much rather they hunt down the food and have to work a bit for it,its a concearn with regards to them getting obese,and not maintaining full vigour.All vivs are heavily stocked with springs and tropical woods,anyway,so whether we provide grub or not there are always suppilments.I guess its always a concearn for a new keeper especially with young frogs.So now my biggest concearn with feeding is.... when have the frogs finished growing?,as that is my signal to start to pull back,as i don't believe they need so much from that point on,ha always difficult when one hasn't seen some of the frogs that we keep as adults ....superblues are a case in point.I'm not sure whether there are any older than ours here. If i could measure our male i'd lay a bet that he is bigger than what the books say too,which is totally upside down as girls are meant to be bigger,granted auratus don't follow the rules of size.Can't beat a varied diet though mate,tis all that wild grub i give 'em,straight back to childhood,30plus yrs ago, when all this culturing wasn't thought of.
As i have already totally gone off on one i may aswell conclude with,what our frogs eat: 
tropical springs,(need more variety of these)
native springs more than one type
Dwarf white iso
Giant orange(kids very soon)
Native iso(i guess at least 3 species,have rammed an iso edilbe culture with adults feeding the offspring)
Aphids several different types,harvested off nettles,sowthistle sycamore,our natural controls have nailed all on alot of the plants here but we will work with the seasons,as different plants become infested. (i love using these as there are so many sizes available,something for all darts i would think)
Meadow plankton
Bean weavils
ha and nearly forgot er they get some of those fruit flies too...LMAO
Tad has
tetramin
mosquito/gnat/midge larvea
algae
bloodworm
will add a couple of other bought products soon,didn't think about tads yet was caught wanting,lol
spirulina
cyclops eeze(thanks Ed and Doug)

anything else i could add mate especially on the wild caught front?
regards
Stu


----------



## Mworks

You seem to have all the 'wild' food sussed. Pretty much exactly what I use for all my frogs. At the moment there are good supplies of 'alder beetles' (Agelastica alni) about - well there are if you have any alder or hazel close by! Histos and Sylvatica love them - similar size to Bean weevils. I also use grain weevils - much smaller and my smaller pums and thumbs take them with relish.
Glad to see you dumped the 'feeding station' approach - I blow their food into the vivs and let them work for their supper - also feed less not more. My adults get fed twice a week and youngsters every three days - works for me and the frogs. You see lots of obese frogs and I know keepers think its kindness but I've never seen a wild fat frog (unless it was gravid!)!
Cyclopeeze is a wonder food - I use it for my tads and grind it fine as an additional supplement too. CYCLOP-EEZE® : Home


Keep up the good work

Regards
Marcus


----------



## stu&shaz

Great tip mate thankyou,ha i planted around 7 hazels here around 17 yrs ago,i'll have a close look,am learning mate!!!!!
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

A quick dodge for isos FAST
Thanks to Doug Pumillio for the inspiration,
ok we set up an edible culture as per normal using leaflittler,rotton plum wood a bit of charcoal
vented the container 3L with a bit of kitchen cloth








say a 1" hole
went collecting in our organic garden for our native woods,paticular attention being paid to adults carrying eggs grabbed say 100 and popped them in the container. I placed this in the coolest possible place in the frogroom by the door on the floor.
here's the culture running








in 2 weeks i have a culture absolutly rammed with baby isos to feed the frogs not months,biggest problem is actual harvest,not ideal but here are the 2 best dodges i have come up with so far,
i spray the back of a bit of card very lightly then stick fish flake to it in no time its gone but it encourages kid to stay long enough to grab some
















the other alternative is to utilise a "pooter" simply a device homemade to suck up feeders manually,don't forget to pop a bit of j-cloth under the lid to stop you sucking up beasties
























ha and we grow some mean organic onions too LMAO,its a bit slow so if anyone has a better idea please help,but its not so bad sucking up isos and listening to little guys calling
be lucky guys 
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

busy old time for us,eggs popping up more of later,and finally got the bravery to take care of some of the little people.which we'll show first.
Not many of these here yet in England, so anything that you more experianced guys can throw at us about these, we would be greatful for,
so our first thumbs R. summersi,quite bold our 2, they are adults and said to be a pair,they are set up in a viv that was one of the first we built about a year ago,and is heaving with dwarf white iso,so many that i removed a couple of handfuls as it was silly in there. i have been feeding this viv daily now for months and removing excess for new cultures,literally a good pinch of fishflake is gone next day,any way the little people

















































and a couple of shots of their viv
























any help or thoghts on breeding these or their general care greatfully excepted,of course we have read as much as we can find but,one doesn't always get everything
thankyou
Stu
tad stuff comming....


----------



## stu&shaz

Because i am not totally happy with using the cup method for tadpol rearing we have also designed a little multi tad setup,it will house 25 tads,i have to try all these things to find the best possible method for our little guys. Ha and as always i guess i have gone the long way round. So basically our intention is to use an external filter to clean the water,made by ehiem,this may well be overkill but untill everything is running i don't know! Some of the guys over here use a similar design so we have taken their lead and run with it. My plan is to utilise little glass boxes with a mesh floor,some are made to different depths which may be of benefit to different species or younger tads.
Ha well i said the long way around,i originally intended to build all the compartements together but then remembered rearing our natives as a kid,my tadpols always loved their algae,so i have gone the route of individual boxes which will not only enable cleaning but,also give me the oppurtunity to pop these boxes in the greenhouse,in water, where i can grow algea on them,before use. Of course their may be problems with growth inhibitors produced by the dart tads but i need to find out how this all works.
As i said the long route LMAO i set to work and it suddenly dawned on me that 25 boxes equals 100 bits of glass all edges sanded plus the mesh bottoms so a fair bit of graft
a snap of the tray and filter pipes








a detail of the box note 2 sides longer allowing water flow down the tray









getting there








a couple of shots of a complete box
















actually i have slightly amended the design and the rest will not have the mesh folded downwards.
i used 2 sheets of polystyrene to make a jig so enabling a more rapid assembly of 2 sides these were then stuck together upside down to make the box








kerching
regards all
Stu


----------



## leonh

hi stu,hope your well i've been following your post's regulary
and i can tell you mate you will become a master at breeding frogs especially with your enthusiasm and regards to the wild varied diet as i was the same when i started with my first frogs in 1999 and to this day i still don't know what spinderly leg syndrome is as i just have not had it..thank god! lol, and i put that down to routinley collecting wild insects like 3 times a week but seriously mate all the best of luck to you and love the summersi's and there viv is awsome.


----------



## stu&shaz

leonh said:


> hi stu,hope your well i've been following your post's regulary
> and i can tell you mate you will become a master at breeding frogs especially with your enthusiasm and regards to the wild varied diet as i was the same when i started with my first frogs in 1999 and to this day i still don't know what spinderly leg syndrome is as i just have not had it..thank god! lol, and i put that down to routinley collecting wild insects like 3 times a week but seriously mate all the best of luck to you and love the summersi's and there viv is awsome.


Hugely kind mate,a little guy with a big stubborn streak can sometimes achieve crazy things.
Leon from all the kindness you have just thrown at me,if i never see the SLS that would be what i would want for my frogs,not for me,i to be a master breeder is not something i really would dream of just to be as good as possible, do what we can. But to never see sls in our little charges,thats the bit that floats my boat,thats the bit that truely would be a dream for me and Shaz.
Am totally dedicated to our wild grub,the varied diet,ff's are almost a back up,at least for the summer months, here,even our tads get wild stuff.
Pretty humbled really mate 
thankyou don't really cut it
Stu


----------



## frogface

Love your tanks and your innovation! I bet the frogs do too


----------



## stu&shaz

Hello mate,ya good? thank you for the kind words,i've got that little kid(me) pushing me along constantly say "oi, remember how you used to do that" the frogs seem to like it so far,it all seems to be going way faster than we thought,more little people hatching to day and again in a few days hopefully. Kris,if you see me doing anything silly please slap me !! i relish constructive criticism. 
but not this kind of sillyness(below),ya know the serious stuff. 
Our little leuc 5 spice now comes to the front door when i am checking cultures,as he knows i'm a soft touch,we've being playing fetch the baby iso(like a dog with a stick) i chuck em around him he doesn't fetch many but scoff's them,oh well its a work in progress ,i think its a drummer thing,we don't grow up whats worse is that Shaz tolerates this,and sits smiling,well ok shaking her head behind me.
break over back to it,
thanks again
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Tad Gizmo finished and running...without tads of course.Reservations are that i have used too small mesh and the plastic tray ,which i have had soaking ever since we bought it with many water changes.Concearns with water circulation are unfonded,i was worried about the flow being too great and creating currents in the boxes but all seems well. on adding tad tea to the system,it circulated well thought all compartments in a few minutes pleasing to watch,all of this means nothing just alot of work unless the thing works of course and we will find that out in time i guess,another beginners mad scheme huh
Here's the whole caboddle tray up top externalfilter below,sat in a tray for drips...none so far.... and to provide a drip loop on the power chord for safety









detail of the tray and boxes








and finally in a way the culmination of alot of graft and 2 yrs of reserch/homework our very first dart tad very nearly there,more colour showing every day. We just gotta rear this one!! If someone would have said we would have hatched one of those first eggs ,which were never expected anyway i would have been surprised we were just greatful to have a pair in 3 frogs and especially as these are some of the first in the uk of superblue auratus,to the best of my knowledge To have got 2 good front legs we are over the moon with,i so hope we rear him. I know its only auratus but its our first dart tad/ froglet and its the first tad Shaz has seen in the flesh morph so its super cool for us. Hmm ya never know there might be more








bring it on
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Too happy for words now
GET IN
our first tad yesterday








and the real deal :today








utterly cool
took time out from being silly happy to set about another auratus viv,this is for a group of 5,
Basic concept is to give them lots of hiding places at the back,but where we can still spot them,going for a pile of rocks.
To accomplish this task you'll need a very expensive tool,..... a broken hacksaw blade and a bit of tape wrapped around the end,for hand protection,oh and a vacume is handy as well
























roughly the viewing angle








and a bit of detail








seeya one happy couple with their first dart froglet,and more comming...help!!!
Stu


----------



## afterdark

Congrats on the first froglet! It looks great.


----------



## stu&shaz

afterdark said:


> Congrats on the first froglet! It looks great.


little stunner in the flesh Mike, thankyou.
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

rocks covered in rockoflex








and tad gizmo completed for the moment with lightingup and running
















regards
Stu


----------



## stevenhman

Still some nice work Stu & Shaz. Mind if we can get a picture (or two  ) of what the completed tanks look like together on their racks? More like a FRS (Full Room Shot)

Thanks!


----------



## stu&shaz

stevenhman said:


> Still some nice work Stu & Shaz. Mind if we can get a picture (or two  ) of what the completed tanks look like together on their racks? More like a FRS (Full Room Shot)
> 
> Thanks!


yes bare with me Steven it will be my pleasure,if i haven't got it sorted in the next few days please slap me,i'm silly busy, having to stip out the tad system today due to some duff leaves hasn't helped progress...i keep missing tea and finishing at 10pm when i can't see
here's those pesky rocks,just before scrubbing up....i didn't get it quite right this time but the're not too bad,i just wanted more,i'm a good way to having this background sorted as of tonight,just got to stick a few more into place
















thanks for the interest
regards
Stu


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> Too happy for words now
> GET IN
> our first tad yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the real deal :today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> utterly cool
> took time out from being silly happy to set about another auratus viv,this is for a group of 5,
> Basic concept is to give them lots of hiding places at the back,but where we can still spot them,going for a pile of rocks.
> To accomplish this task you'll need a very expensive tool,..... a broken hacksaw blade and a bit of tape wrapped around the end,for hand protection,oh and a vacume is handy as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> roughly the viewing angle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a bit of detail
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seeya one happy couple with their first dart froglet,and more comming...help!!!
> Stu



What are you using for the rocks?
What is rocoflex? Lol 
Do they have it in the us? 
Is it like Drylok?
Also what kinda paint are you using?


----------



## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> What are you using for the rocks?
> What is rocoflex? Lol
> Do they have it in the us?
> Is it like Drylok?
> Also what kinda paint are you using?


Rockoflex is made by ent in germany,its a grounding product to provide a strong base for the next stage,unfortunately i can't tell you if you can get it over there,we live in England. The last step is epoxy resin,you can see it,with the paint brush in the picture,i have pigmented it black. I paint on the epoxy,over the rockoflex. Then immediatly cover this in some dry rock dust i source from a granite merchant,its another waste product that would end up in landfill. This comes as a pale grey paste which we dry out,i then pigment the dust,i wish i had of used a bit more here,but i struggle to get the colours of pigment that i would really like to use,and i KNOW are frog safe... If i could use paints i guess i could fool most folks with these,as i paint wildlife pictures and have used paints in different forms all my life,and as an obsession as a kid,somewhere back there is a picture of a Panda i painted to give you an idea. I'm getting close though,my friend wasn't sure which were fake and which not in 2 ajoining vivs and he was staring at them from about 6" away. Its a tricky method because you don't really know what you've got untill they are washed...the pigment in the epoxy bleeds into the dust,and depending how thick the epoxy how much colour...well i think thats whats going on. If i did this often enough i guess i could nail it,but not every viv wants rocks,and i'm DAMN slow about stuff...the goal is do it once do it right ,get some happy frogs,and leave them alone,which is a big ask for a novice whom is learning as he goes,ha but loving it
seeya
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

oh sorry i missed out i don't think it is like drylok,which i believe is a cement based product,gladly corrected if i'm wrong...i guess rockoflex is more akin to a tile grout,but its not that either,i wish i knew exactly what it is,its wouldn't surprise me if there was a similar product used for making surfboards
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Am on an enforced break so some pics of the room,excuse the chaos tis me midflow as always
Bottom 2/3rds of the 6 rack,this new auratus viv will live alongside the other on the upper shelf








the 12 viv rack opposite








as you can see tads are living on the top shelf for the mo. while i address the situation








some of the vivs taken today
















































































2 small vivs in the 12 rack will be eventually moved to a new rack i have yet to build.
Here's a bit more of the auratus tank we are working on now,with some of the rocks fitted








and some detail








have made more progress,more soon
Stu


----------



## epiphytes etc.

Tanks are looking good, very classy.


----------



## Newtnerd

I really like the tank in the fourth picture! what frogs do you have in there?


----------



## stu&shaz

epiphytes etc. said:


> Tanks are looking good, very classy.


Cheers we are slowly getting to grips with this
regards
Stu


----------



## vivlover10

NICE TANKS!!!! the moss/plant growth in those tanks is spectacular. Which frogs are in which tanks?


----------



## stu&shaz

Newtnerd said:


> I really like the tank in the fourth picture! what frogs do you have in there?


thanks,ha funnily enough that is one that is actually occupied,quite a few are not yet,is an unusual shape 2' base say 18" high it holds 5 young panama special auratus,I like to have the vivs running a while before stocking them,kinda going slowly really. 
regards
Stu


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Very nice 
Are you removing the door for the pics?
Or are they just that clear haha

Btw you missed one question 
What did you make the rock out of... polystyrene?


----------



## ocellaris123

awesome vivariums, your super blue auratus make me want to get some


----------



## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Very nice
> Are you removing the door for the pics?
> Or are they just that clear haha
> 
> Btw you missed one question
> What did you make the rock out of... polystyrene?


Hey Brandon,apologies,yup rocks made out of polystyrene,carved with a very expensive broken hacksaw blade,with some tape wrapped around it for mitt protection. Then i run over it with a heatgun,the type used for paint stripping. do the last bit outside because of fumes !!
Yeah we pulled the glass Shaz wanted to clean them so killed 2 birds with one stone,so to speak. Having 2 racks opposite means photos are a nightmare with the doors on due to reflections,a real pain.
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

vivlover10 said:


> NICE TANKS!!!! the moss/plant growth in those tanks is spectacular. Which frogs are in which tanks?


Thanks,we grow nearly all the plants ourselves,so very chuffed with the compliment!!
1 will hold cem basti
2 will hold thumb...probably vanzo
3 5 Stonking leucs
4 5 panama specials
5 1.2 breeding superblues
6 1.1 tinc citronella
7 will hold Azzie
8 1.1 R.summersi
9 will hold tinc possibly macheto
10 not finished..... will hold 5 auratus not 100% sure but possibly elcope

Our selection of frogs here in England is not quite as great as yours so when we are ready we'll have to see what is around. That said One of the guys here has put massive effort into organising a bi yearly UK frogday,hats off to MUSTY!!!!! Which is seeing more frogs come over from europe,which is fantastic. In the past we have only had one deadicated dartfrog supplier whom has brought lots of great stuff in. We are very lucky we only live an hour or so away from him Otherwise its a trip to holland or germany,which of course not everyone can afford 
We try as best we can as beginners to build a viv to suit a species
regards
Stu


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> Hey Brandon,apologies,yup rocks made out of polystyrene,carved with a very expensive broken hacksaw blade,with some tape wrapped around it for mitt protection. Then i run over it with a heatgun,the type used for paint stripping. do the last bit outside because of fumes !!
> Yeah we pulled the glass Shaz wanted to clean them so killed 2 birds with one stone,so to speak. Having 2 racks opposite means photos are a nightmare with the doors on due to reflections,a real pain.
> regards
> Stu


I thought you was using polystyrene lol had to make sure...
I have a hacksaw that has a handle grip in it 
The reason I second guessed the polystyrene is cause you have it so smooth lols
Now I know how.
Is you poly pretty thick or do you stack sheets?
I have some polystyrene laying around but its like only ¾" think









I use it to build stuff like this...and no I don't mean the dragon


----------



## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I thought you was using polystyrene lol had to make sure...
> I have a hacksaw that has a handle grip in it
> The reason I second guessed the polystyrene is cause you have it so smooth lols
> Now I know how.
> Is you poly pretty thick or do you stack sheets?
> I have some polystyrene laying around but its like only ¾" think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use it to build stuff like this...and no I don't mean the dragon


nice...the dragon's a sweety too!!
i use 2 thicknesses mate,one looks ID to yours the other i guess twice the thickness. Yup i do stack it i carve first silicone the 2 together,then heat gun.
I can fill gaps with the rocko,but rocks often have faults that mean a visable line can actually look cool. I wish i'd have used a bit more pigment this time,but they'll be ok once planted,might look cool as i guess the frogs will show well against this,time will tell,its all plumbed in now just waiting for the cork to hold water,it takes a while to sink in,i'll use a lot of ferns in this one and will plant some gametophytes straight on to the cork,pushing them into the little gaps. I set some fern spore last autumn(FALL) so have hundreds of little plants grown under viv conditions ready to go,they are of a native fern called polypodium vulgare,we love them in vivs. I'm hoping they will stay quite small embedded in the cork. I just gotta wait now untill i can plant. Gonna stop a min and see what pics i posted....DOH
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

ok here's what the viv looks like properly lit in the rack








and here is the fern larval stage...gametophytes








here's some pics ofthe viv alongside it that houses some panama specials,they are just starting to show now really cool frogs they will be stunning when they grow up,got to wait 2/3 yrs for the colour to finish changing aparently



































hard to believe these vivs are 2' deep
regards
Stu


----------



## d1rocchino

im jealous


----------



## stu&shaz

d1rocchino said:


> im jealous


thanks,sweet aren't they 
Stu


----------



## ncc2015

I found this website that sells a lot of materials they use and they also ship to the US. Like the rockoflex and epoxy resin. Shipping is pretty expensive but it's great if you want to give their viv builds a try.

Miscellaneous Price List


----------



## stu&shaz

ncc2015 said:


> I found this website that sells a lot of materials they use and they also ship to the US. Like the rockoflex and epoxy resin. Shipping is pretty expensive but it's great if you want to give their viv builds a try.
> 
> Miscellaneous Price List


He's about an hour and a quarter from me these are the products exactly that we use,he supplies us!! He is the uk's only specialist at the moment although others are comming through.Our methods are exactly based on these very products,and most of our frogs come from him too
Stu


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Yeah, the dartfrog shop is also pretty impressive.

If shipping to the US, check out some of the dutch/german sites you may find the shipping prices more reasonable, it's more or less the same stock.


----------



## ncc2015

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yeah, the dartfrog shop is also pretty impressive.
> 
> If shipping to the US, check out some of the dutch/german sites you may find the shipping prices more reasonable, it's more or less the same stock.


Do you have links to the sites that have cheaper US shipping?


----------



## Morgan Freeman

You might find them cheaper, I have no idea. Can't hurt to try though.

Terrarium, gifkikkers, fruitvliegen, sproeiers - Dutch-Rana Online - Home

Ben's Jungle Online-Shop

E.N.T. Terrarientechnik

If not, it's perhaps worth considering getting a few people and making a bulk order.

I've used all three suppliers and had good service, all should speak English if you need to send an email, I know ENT and Ben's Jungle do.


----------



## ncc2015

Thanks. I'll check them out.


----------



## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> You might find them cheaper, I have no idea. Can't hurt to try though.
> 
> Terrarium, gifkikkers, fruitvliegen, sproeiers - Dutch-Rana Online - Home
> 
> Ben's Jungle Online-Shop
> 
> E.N.T. Terrarientechnik
> 
> If not, it's perhaps worth considering getting a few people and making a bulk order.
> 
> I've used all three suppliers and had good service, all should speak English if you need to send an email, I know ENT and Ben's Jungle do.


Good onya Paul cheers for the help, you know how poor i am on links etc
cheers mate
Stu


----------



## Morgan Freeman

Yes I do


----------



## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> Yes I do



ahh well can't do everything mate:,but i can get a load of rubbish glass,and some polystyrene,bit of epoxy grow some plants,totally from scratch and chuck them all together to make this
























see now thats proper blagging,totaly cost...penuts, actually people buy this stuff we save it from landfill......you've just gotta be patient now well it grows in,spot those gametophytes ,the question is will they take,with another few weeks it'd be easy,but well the cork is settling down ,now there a challange for a plantsman,oh just serious for a mo this is for some auratus for anyone that doesn't know....descisions descisions,but which???????
Stu


----------



## tclipse

Looking good as always.


----------



## stu&shaz

tclipse said:


> Looking good as always.


Thanks Teddy,thought the rocks too pale at first but they are good in the flesh,We're just gonna have to be patient on this,we've used lots of little plants trying to reduce stocks before winter comes,but its nice only working with ferns/2species of ficus,moss and liverworts,they'll get going soon enough.
We have 2 more ready for background but we are agonoising over which frog species,so stumbling at presantcheers
Stu


----------



## lauraleellbp

stu&shaz said:


> Hey Brandon,apologies,yup rocks made out of polystyrene,carved with a very expensive broken hacksaw blade,with some tape wrapped around it for mitt protection. Then i run over it with a heatgun,the type used for paint stripping. do the last bit outside because of fumes !!


Do you need to wear a mask/respirator when you work with a heatgun and polystyrene?


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

lauraleellbp said:


> Do you need to wear a mask/respirator when you work with a heatgun and polystyrene?


Its always best to wear a mask when working with polystyrene
Or so I've been told


----------



## ajb28221

WOW. Thats all I can say. I just spent like 2 hours reading through every page of this. Very awesome very nice. Have you reared anymore tads since your first one?


----------



## stu&shaz

lauraleellbp said:


> Do you need to wear a mask/respirator when you work with a heatgun and polystyrene?


Hey there,i use the gun in pretty short blasts,and guage which way the fumes are being blown,and actually just don't breath. Absolutly a respirator should be used,but i am damn careful. Definitly don't do this inside the fumes are nasty,but really you are not burning it just melting, a big dose of common sense is called for,
thanks for the interest.
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

ajb28221 said:


> WOW. Thats all I can say. I just spent like 2 hours reading through every page of this. Very awesome very nice. Have you reared anymore tads since your first one?


I actually think you got off lightly the one over here is 100 pges long
Best be serious though thanks for sticking with it,in short we are right on that point today,we have one about a day away from leaving the water and 2 right behind him,then there is a procession of them right back to the tiny tiny guys that went into the water this actual evening ie hatched today!!!,we now have around 50 i think,its really scarey and really really cool at the same time,we are abit overwelmed by it in a way,the tad gizmo is full and i need to make another one, oh well beginners huh. We are absolutly loving every second of it apart from cleaning used ff pots.
Lots has happened i'll make another post soon of our beautiful new guys,i'm kinda running on empty at presant,but i'll try and get some pics up in a moment,if i don't fall asleep,oh and"Ickle mate" is real good and strong and growing well
thankyou,i'm really glad you enjoyed this,its cool to get intosomething that goes on for a bit,and kinda see it happen,and the thoughts behind it
regards
Stu


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## stu&shaz

How about this,a guy over here,has been chucking thoughs at us for a while,we have never met.He pointed us in the direction of some frogs we wanted at a big show in germany recently,when i couldn't handle the website he found us links,when i was to inept to handle that while he was at the show he found what we were after(even though i'm a picky sod) and the rang us to tell us what our options were(we are uk) so from a foreign land,then he got them for us brought them home fed them and watered them like his own and we picked them up on monday, thanks Chris,we have been fortunate enough to chuck stuff about here and there to help folks ourselves ,but i think we got back more here. So what i'm saying is how cool is it to be assiociated,with the dartfrogs hobby,where folks think of each other,help each other,pretty cool huh
so here are our new Machetos,they are doing well we feel,considering a journey from holland to germany to england and to us in a few days. They are in a qt tub on the floor and are eating well,i was taking tadpols out tonight to pop in glasses,i turned aaround and the male had come as close as possible,to see if more grub was comming his way,when i got down on the floor with him...he came closer,ahh bless





















































the yellow is much deeper but i need to play camera skill learning i guess!!!
Oh and here is the first tad just comming through the tad gizmo and about to be moved to a morphing tank.
I have just upgraded the lighting over the tad gizmo to the new arcadia T5 24watt uvb bulb really good i think hoping for good things from it,they also make a great reflector too,will try and take some pics soon
take care everyone
bring it on
Stu


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## jaimeomg

Absolutely gorgeous Stu, you must be well chuffed!


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## stu&shaz

thanks Jaime,very much so!! Might just be my all time favourite tinc morph Now we have to watch carefully mate to see if there are any potential problems,then we will be able to move them from this QT tub to their intended home,which has been set up for months now,and is well seeded with feeders. One of our first tincs...citronella hated their QT tank,with the male trying so hard to leave it he climbed himself into the ground,so much observation will now take place.Just a tinge of irony here in that by using a tub for quarantine which he hated so much,it was nearly our downfall,the minute he went into a viv he settled and all was good ,so another factor to be weighed up with new frogs and us novice keepers.....essential to not bring disease in to a collection,abut also essential to not stress out the frogs,the female citronella was absolutly fine with the tub and was happy from the off.
the lesson learnt was really watch new frogs...take time...and evaluate any new behaviour with great thought.
regards
Stu


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## dubloco

I am really impressed with your designs and the amount of time you have put into your projects. Like the other post, it took me some time to just read through the tread I can't imagine the time you have invested. The best part is your doing what you love.


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## stu&shaz

dubloco said:


> I am really impressed with your designs and the amount of time you have put into your projects. Like the other post, it took me some time to just read through the tread I can't imagine the time you have invested. The best part is your doing what you love.


yeah i guess we have put a bit in,but you are so right we really do love this,i don't feel that these guys need to be taken on lightly,and already they have repaid us on so many levels...and i don't mean money,its all those little things,a citronella bounding out to see if we will feed and watching every movewe make while trying her best to plead starvation...those first eggs,and them being fertile.watching a little tad turn into a froglet,and its still going finding a newly morphed little dude going "how the hell did i get here" when he's maybe forgot about land and is half way up a vertical side say 10" up which must equate to 100 feet to us or something silly,ha just imagine that at your first day on the panet. Ha get this a couple of days ago i was feeding our tadpols live bloodworm,the one nearest to us has clocked whats going on,i hand fed a tadpol(ok tweezers) but we both stood there mouths open as this little guy shook the hell out of the BW,i was so shocked i forgot to let go for a spilt second  so yeah we do love this for the little things.....and there are alot of really cool dudes associated with this too nice good folks whom try to help each other,we DEFINATELY approve of that!!!!! We have guys that i think we can call friend all over our planet becuase of a few little tiny frogs,in this dog eat dog world thats not so bad,
cheers glad you enjoyed and thankyou
regards
Stu


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## Zoomie

Stu, absolutely remarkable journey thus far. I didn't think it was possible but you seem to have even more fun frogging than I do.

My wife and I have to decided to sell everything and move in with you. No need to make up the guest room. We'll just lay a couple of sleeping bags down in the frog room.

I'll try to stay out of the organic garden but no promises.

Frog on, sir. Frog on !


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## stu&shaz

Zoomie said:


> Stu, absolutely remarkable journey thus far. I didn't think it was possible but you seem to have even more fun frogging than I do.
> 
> My wife and I have to decided to sell everything and move in with you. No need to make up the guest room. We'll just lay a couple of sleeping bags down in the frog room.
> 
> I'll try to stay out of the organic garden but no promises.
> 
> Frog on, sir. Frog on !


hey mate...I don't know your name...Buddy you'll be welcomed actually frogroom is the warmest room in our house now so you'll get the best deal possible,its a tiny cottage so no other options no guest room,i decided most guests were best kept outside(froggers excepting) anyway, it has to be said that with both our sense of humour put together i don't know whether we would do anything constructive though other than laugh alot.
Thanks for the words mate,real kind,off to suck the pooh out now ha ya didn't need to know that sorry,and then more malarky i guess,vivs to build tads to feed plants to water,tis all good,i just need to stop being so damn slow,with the background ideas winter is gonna bite me otherwise
best
Stu
regards


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## stu&shaz

Froglet: 
" Sometime's the easy way just ain't the right way....I woulda been quite happy if he hadn't taken me out of that damn glass,if he thinks i'm gonna settle for plastic, i'm a damn pure bred super blue auratus,bet he don't treat his kid like this......blummin plastic....the cheek of it,and he's put a bigger one outside this too,blummin plastic,oh yeah an the big kids get plush swanky ruddy vivs too,with little rocks bits a wood an'all that.........poxy plastic!!!!"
Stu:
"wot...It ain't my fault,give me abreak dude,your ruddy teenage parents are responsible for this not me,give me chance i might make something ...well one day....why can't you be like your brother, and stay in the damn water "










kids...dartfrog kids....who'ld have em
Stu


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## nguyenp209

Great frog room. Even more beautiful frogs!!! Makes me dream about my own frog room


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## stu&shaz

nguyenp209 said:


> Great frog room. Even more beautiful frogs!!! Makes me dream about my own frog room


yup tis all about the frogs thanks for the kind words here's afew of the next lot of little guys just before the move from the gizmo to the morph rearing container and also some of the individual compartments with respect to how much algea has grown ,and i think how much is being munched by an individual tad,these differences can not be explained by lighting,so kinda strange












































shaped eyed might spot the odd little guy comes through to a stage of 3 legs,the forth so far has appeared within 2 days and all good and strong. All these tads pictured yesterday now have 4 good strong legs
regards
Stu


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## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> yup tis all about the frogs thanks for the kind words here's afew of the next lot of little guys just before the move from the gizmo to the morph rearing container and also some of the individual compartments with respect to how much algea has grown ,and i think how much is being munched by an individual tad,these differences can not be explained by lighting,so kinda strange
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> regards
> Stu


what are those plants you're putting in there


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## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> what are those plants you're putting in there


I keep a bucket full of elodea out side buddy in our greenhouse,because of the light levels it grows lots of algea,my original thought was that it might help with oygenating the water,i don't honestly know if it gets enough light inside to do this,but the tads munch it much to my surprise,i expected them to munch the agae,but not the actual plant,funnily enough 2 tadpols from the same hatch took such a liking to it they totally destroyed it,bits of leaves everywhere....demolition tads...I had to replace with more,i have no idea whether,anyone else does this ...its something i did as a kid. i also use a bit of duck weed here and there,that gets munched too. It doesn't seem to have done them any harm as you can see but it might be worth checking out what more experianced folks say before you try this
regards
Stu


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## lauraleellbp

I think it's a fantastic idea. Can only help the water quality, too! Guppy grass (_Najas guadalupensis_) would be a great plant to use for this, I find it generally does better in lower light levels than Elodea. (Also holds up better to warmer temperatures.)


I'd also really love to see some photos of how the whole room is coming together whenever you can get around to it. Very inspirational stuff!


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## stu&shaz

lauraleellbp said:


> I think it's a fantastic idea. Can only help the water quality, too! Guppy grass (_Najas guadalupensis_) would be a great plant to use for this, I find it generally does better in lower light levels than Elodea. (Also holds up better to warmer temperatures.)
> 
> 
> I'd also really love to see some photos of how the whole room is coming together whenever you can get around to it. Very inspirational stuff!


thanks Lauralee,well it doesn't seem to have done any harm so far...thanks for the tip we'll lokk in to this,part of putting in the green house was down to trying to acclimat it to the warmth,as i'd been warned about this,ha but if we get more tads like those two auratus the poor plant doesn't stand a chance anyway...oh well,can but try, we are knocking up another 3 vivs at presant gonna get some buildshots up for ya then as they go in the room i'll get some shots up of where we are at around the room,the main hiccup at presamt is the ever increasing hord of tadpoles.We really need to build another tad gizmo really well 2 we are loving all of this and are so fortunate but utterly bewildered by it, but as a thankyou i've got a nice second best for you
This is our first froglet sb auratus "ickle mate" i wanted to show you guys the growth rate its astonishing to us,he's been reared on live wild grub as a tad,and according to convention i think we probably over fed him,but one doesn't have to worry about ,water pollution with live grub just the risks,so care to be taken and much thought before use. we also used more usual staples like cyclopseeze and tetramin. I'll chuck a hypothisis without any facts that i wonder if because he's been reared in rainwater just filtered thats all) and given wild food he might have experianced low level challeges,that might make him stronger,i don't know i just wonder as always about these things.
anyway enough waffle make of this what you will he's sat with a little guy that morphed last week,or so and is feeding well,only one shot because i didn't want to stress them too much he came ootw on 11Aug first fertile egg that hatched from first clutch of eggs with embyos in from young parents








the first of the above tads litterally just ootw








and finally our citronella male because he really wanted to be the center of attention,so i couldn't leave him out could i








Lauralee,i hope thats not too bad a second best thanks for the kind words,much apprecaited
regards
Stu


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## drpsholder

Those tanks are incredible. Keep up the good work!!!


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## stu&shaz

drpsholder said:


> Those tanks are incredible. Keep up the good work!!!


thankyou,i'm kinda working on a mad one at present lots of rocks,just got to find a work through method of applying all the rockoflex and dust and epoxy method now, without backing us into a corner: lmao i keep giving meself headaches,but finally we have that elusive picture in our heads of where we are going,and all the polystyrene work is pretty much finished,photots will follow
regards
Stu


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## jausi

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

I can't get tired to read this threat!!!!, you room is sooooooooo AMAZIN and any time I read something you have a new thank or idea, my friend you are a genius, good look with all your tads, thank you very much for sharing all those pics and info.

Felipe (AKA Jausi)


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## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
> 
> I can't get tired to read this threat!!!!, you room is sooooooooo AMAZIN and any time I read something you have a new thank or idea, my friend you are a genius, good look with all your tads, thank you very much for sharing all those pics and info.
> 
> Felipe (AKA Jausi)


hey dude,your welcome i'm stoked your enjoying it,not to let you down here's a very quick start to our next viv,i'm being very hush hush over whos going in their and it will be along wait ,but one day if the tank keeps the right temps...one day,ha call it blind faith
but first thakyou again for the words about our little guys,you are the first i've told actually but more out this very evening,popped them in the water just an hour ago 4 tonight one in the morning i guess.
Here's that viv,lots of time went in to figuring out how to build it easily and not get stuck half way through,actually its given me headaches,any way,all poly sides come out so the work will happen outside the viv,








































a start hey mate,thanks Fillippe
regards
Stu


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## jausi

Must stop checking!!! this during work time (hehehe)

even my co-workers are impress with all your work, If some day I travel to the UK, I'll definally will stop at your place 

Great job again with your new tank looking good!!!!


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## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> Must stop checking!!! this during work time (hehehe)
> 
> even my co-workers are impress with all your work, If some day I travel to the UK, I'll definally will stop at your place
> 
> Great job again with your new tank looking good!!!!


ha you'll be welcomed.....LMAO with a nice cup of tea,thanks for the kindness mate say gooday to your workmates for me dude
regards
Stu


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## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> hey dude,your welcome i'm stoked your enjoying it,not to let you down here's a very quick start to our next viv,i'm being very hush hush over whos going in their and it will be along wait ,but one day if the tank keeps the right temps...one day,ha call it blind faith
> but first thakyou again for the words about our little guys,you are the first i've told actually but more out this very evening,popped them in the water just an hour ago 4 tonight one in the morning i guess.
> Here's that viv,lots of time went in to figuring out how to build it easily and not get stuck half way through,actually its given me headaches,any way,all poly sides come out so the work will happen outside the viv,
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> regards
> Stu


I can't wait to see how this one turns out.
you do such awesome work


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## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I can't wait to see how this one turns out.
> you do such awesome work


thaks mate,tell you what though,i can't wait to see what it looks like either this method of rockmaking is always a bit of a mystery untill the end,trying for a bit more colour in them this time...here's stage 2 rockoflex,looks abit like a chocolate fest at presant there are definatley bits we want to eat
































and some leucs








seeya
Stu


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## DragonSpirit1185

so was the wood pre-mossed or did you put the moss on there yourself?


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## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> so was the wood pre-mossed or did you put the moss on there yourself?


As it came my friend,some species do for us some don't,all are temperate
regards
Stu


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## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> As it came my friend,some species do for us some don't,all are temperate
> regards
> Stu


does temperate mosses require a dormant period?


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## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> does temperate mosses require a dormant period?


Almost all do yes,but which will do under viv conditions and survive is a work in progress for us,its fairly safe to say alot won't cope,we often add a bit of a dry tropical mix made by epiweb,whom are in sweden,i think,but not totally sure,to any moss we use so hedging the bets if it does fail,but a couple of species seem to have promise...don't ask me which ones though,we are having good results with some of our native liverworts though,we have one that looks abit like seaweed,it seems to like the real wet places in our vivs,little hollows that collect water. Very much a learning curve
regards
Stu


----------



## Morgan Freeman

I am the master of growing temperate moss in vivs THE MASTER I TELL YOU.


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## DragonSpirit1185

Morgan Freeman said:


> I am the master of growing temperate moss in vivs THE MASTER I TELL YOU.


well I got rid of my moss anyway


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## stu&shaz

Morgan Freeman said:


> I am the master of growing temperate moss in vivs THE MASTER I TELL YOU.


your a case mate,show em a couple pics buddy to back that up, i know the guys will enjoy
belucky dude
Stu


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## stu&shaz

ok off again,these panels with the rockoflex were then covered in the usual rock mix plus of course the actual rocks:
































and finally (i'll get mare pics once its all dry difficult to handle when wet) the epoxy/subs mix were added to the background i've shown a bit more detail on the side to you can get a pic of how it overlaps the cork


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## stu&shaz

hey ya'll to nearly wrap up this background
panels installed
























detail of the first rock and supporting wood








Sharp eyed and followers will notice a design reoccurance,ie the low shelf at the back,twofold reasons for this...hidey hole with easy access,and max floor area ie subs for feeders,crafty ain't i,sorry for the divergence
next up rocks were dry positioned,note this structure is almost self supporting so we actually only fixed 4 rocks in place,again thought deeply about this,i want to, as always, have access in case i need to strip it down quick,for some unforseen reason,plants and roots will do the final anchoring of us,so yup did have a few headaches in the making,anyways here is the dry run,a couple more bits of good ol' English oak to complete but we'll save that for later









more detail








and just cause i'm considerate and a nice guy here's a top shot which might just be useful to someone








seeya guys
Stu


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## jausi

MAn!!!! your killing me!!!!!

this is amazing all the work you've done, the detail, the explantion step by step, we're all very grateful for you sharing all this info, can wait to see it planted.

Best regards


keep up with the good job


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## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> MAn!!!! your killing me!!!!!
> 
> this is amazing all the work you've done, the detail, the explantion step by step, we're all very grateful for you sharing all this info, can wait to see it planted.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> 
> keep up with the good job


Hey Fillipe how are ya dude?
thanks for the words mate,got the top on today and the template for the doors cut,so tomorrow might be heading roomwards,maybe day after,depends on the smell of silicone,its always such a relief when its in place and i haven't broken it,it will probably have a couple of big broms in and ...ahh well it'll be more fun to make ya wait...cruel am i not.what i will say now is it going to have deep subs and going to experiment with some nice bits of oak to hold this back,aswell as the usual cork.
Whats happening is our beloved frogs...little perishers are chucking all the top layer of leaves in the ditch,we pick them out and they throw em back in again,we actually think the citronellas think this is a game,they come over whilst we are pulling them out its almost like they are laughing at us,when we finish they then stand on the front mesh trying to look innocent and plead starvation ,i'm sure they pull them tummies in,rogues they are.
anyway i want a real deep subs to hold a good stock of feeders for little froglets.
Our little auratus are going into a tub with a deep very coarse orchid barksubs topped off with some oak and beech leaf litter all goes in the microwave,to nail any unwanted guests,once set topped off with a good layer of whole oak leaves,the springtails we keep are going nuts in there,so this viv will employ similar
belucky guys
Stu


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## xsputnikx

I just found this thread you do amazing setups. 

I really like the way you illustrate depth in your displays.


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## tclipse

stu&shaz said:


> the yellow is much deeper but i need to play camera skill learning i guess!!!


You aren't kidding about the yellow.... before I got my Matechos, I'd hear "man the yellow looks so much better in person," and think, "ok, yea sure "

When I got them, I was like, "Holy metallic shiny six-shaded newly buffed lamborghini piece of the sun just fell out of the sky into my viv can't believe this color exists and i own it, yellow..."  Seems much closer to the metallic colors we see on thumbnails than the flatter pastels of most of the other tincs... hands down my favorite tinc as well (along with Oyapock), and mine are still just 3-4 months old.


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## stu&shaz

tclipse said:


> You aren't kidding about the yellow.... before I got my Matechos, I'd hear "man the yellow looks so much better in person," and think, "ok, yea sure "
> 
> When I got them, I was like, "Holy metallic shiny six-shaded newly buffed lamborghini piece of the sun just fell out of the sky into my viv can't believe this color exists and i own it, yellow..."  Seems much closer to the metallic colors we see on thumbnails than h mine are still just 3-4 months old.


Ahh Teddy to be able to wax lyrical,about a colour like you just have,man i wish i could do that,utterly superb description thank you kind sir,its funny in the last few days i've been saying to Shaz that lass is getting even briter,i would like to bottle that colour .
if we could get that as a swatch(patch of paint) i reckon i could hang it over the vivs and save a rummin fortune on lighting,it really is amazing,our male is just a bit paler but the female is exactly what you describeThese are the oldest ones i have actually seen apart from photos,does this colour get stronger as they get older? i've only seen pictures of adults,and as a above you gotta pretty darn good with a camera to get this yellow out right,i've always loved them,these originated in holland,
regards
Stu


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## stu&shaz

xsputnikx said:


> I just found this thread you do amazing setups.
> 
> I really like the way you illustrate depth in your displays.


thanks we do try realhard with the vivs,it has to be said,i'm hoping that they will last and we want to do this as long as we can so its a cool challenge,i adore the concept of a slice of rainforest in a box an actual mini ecosystem,i would love to walk where our frogs actually live,it would aid in this task so much,one day maybe...stuff dreams are made of for us!!
cheers
Stu


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## tclipse

stu&shaz said:


> Ahh Teddy to be able to wax lyrical,about a colour like you just have,man i wish i could do that,utterly superb description thank you kind sir,its funny in the last few days i've been saying to Shaz that lass is getting even briter,i would like to bottle that colour .
> if we could get that as a swatch(patch of paint) i reckon i could hang it over the vivs and save a rummin fortune on lighting,it really is amazing,our male is just a bit paler but the female is exactly what you describeThese are the oldest ones i have actually seen apart from photos,does this colour get stronger as they get older? i've only seen pictures of adults,and as a above you gotta pretty darn good with a camera to get this yellow out right,i've always loved them,these originated in holland,
> regards
> Stu


You overrate me, that took a solid 3 minutes to type out 

I'm not sure if it gets stronger as they get older, I honestly don't see how it could... but two of mine have been developing a bit of orange over the eyes, I'm guessing due to the Repashy SuperPig & Naturose supplements. Or maybe too many carrots....


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## Cfrog

Thank you so much for posting your progress, I'm new but just in awe of the details. Love it!


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## stu&shaz

tclipse said:


> You overrate me, that took a solid 3 minutes to type out
> 
> I'm not sure if it gets stronger as they get older, I honestly don't see how it could... but two of mine have been developing a bit of orange over the eyes, I'm guessing due to the Repashy SuperPig & Naturose supplements. Or maybe too many carrots....


nah i loved your words,credit was due mate Teddy we have exactly the same orange over the eye on our little lass we are only using repashy calcium plus,but the carrots do come into play,i use the tops for,springs/iso grub
.Seriously though i wish i knew what the breeder used,because i'd swear ours were getting more vibrant,doubtless something in Allen excellant supps is having an effect,what made me ask is seeing how our young auratus colour is changing,i wondered if this might be applicable to tincs too.
on a side note our little citronella male started calling the other night,i was so chuffed i could hear it,my ears aren't the best,too many loud gigs,i play drums abit of keys and sing. oh and the best bit our little luecs are now a breeding group,we are so overwhelmed by it all i have to keep pinching myself,get this, it was our big suspected female i call the pielady,she always had to be a girl,called that right(to my utter amazement) and damn me they are fertile,gobsmacked!! had to pull one egg and another doesn't look good,but we might just get one of the 4 remaining,we have tadpoles all over the place 14 autatus ootw,another 3 or so just popping legs,and i confidently,thought all this was for next year,to see all this so quick and to show shaz this and some of me mates kids its so cool.
shellshocked i am
Stu


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## stu&shaz

rain dart said:


> Thank you so much for posting your progress, I'm new but just in awe of the details. Love it!


well really so am i, new,its nice to pass abit on from one novice to another,we have had a lot of kindness and help us,i gotta try to chuck abit back,its that what ya give ya get back thing,trouble is our frogs are taking it to heart,and keep making us more little friends,actually we are dropping humdity feeding less as we worry that they have done enough,at least the breeding ones,not having much effect yet though,trying to get them to stop.So as above another group start,hey ho beginners huh
thanks glad your enjoying it, there will be more pics up soon my old machine broke and took alot of photos etc with it so got to learn to use this lap dancing thing now
Stu


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## stu&shaz

Hey all,very busy of late,so better get back on the case,here is that last viv in the rack,always a joy when its sitting in place and i haven't broken it,








a detail with the lighting,note that bit of wood,its purose is to raise the substrate so i can get the drainage i want for a brom that will be situated right at the front,i don't normally plant these in the floor so we'll see if it all goes to plan








detail of said bit of oak








ok this tank won't be housing any frogs for a good while i guess,but this will give me a real good oppurtunity to monitor exactly what is going on and let the plants go to town,if it all works as i intend the front brom will be used as a breeding site,the 3 broms yp top rosting or again breeding options,2 quercifolia will cover the fake trunk on the right,and the 2 panamas(all ficus) will provide shade and hiding options up top,we have also used some epiweb moss mix on the horizontal branch,and again on the very top of the fake trunk,which will also throw some ferns hopefully.
As per usual differing types of glass have been used,at the top of the viv to give different levels of uvb available to the frogs so they can self regulate,ferns are boston and a native i think Blecum spicant,though i will stand corrected greatfully,and a pepperomia left to round things off
























so there you are one viv for a frog we both want,and you see them one day not soon when i'm utterly sure everything is right

regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

A while,back i posted our last auratus tank,planted around the beginning of september,a very sinple planting scheme ferns ficus,moss and liverwort
so this is just planted,because we used young plants and cuttings i thought i'd show you how its going along about 3 months on








Here's what it looks like now
























I'll add that the cuttings on the left are a ficus from Equador,here's a detail of that,not one of our homegrow gametophytes starting to get going,i think Polypodium vulgare








The ficus to the right is from columbia,unfortunately i ommitted to snap it,but it is basically a smaller leaved slower growing version of pumilla
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Finally our most recent frogs we have had then sometime now,but seen as i haven't put any pics up and today 2 of their tadpoles hatched i thought it might be cool to let you see them.
Our pr of Mt Atachibakka,note the colours are not quite true to life,i'm yet to really get time to get these photos up to the standard they should be,but it will come,this morph seems to vary, from what i have seen, from mainly yellow back with grey lower to almost all grey on the back,i've not seem any here like them before,they came from Holland,
























and just out today








take care 
Stu


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## DragonSpirit1185

Finally an update 
Looks great  and so do the frogs/tadpole


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## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Finally an update
> Looks great  and so do the frogs/tadpole


Hey Brandon,yeah sorry so long mate,the frogs and their children are keeping us very busy,we have tads all over the place,and around 25 little guys growing fast.So i'm really putting the time in to making sure we have enough springtails to keep them all well fed,i'm on a daily ritual for these now as we don't have much room for error especially in our first season.
Our little summersi are courting have been for a good while now,i don't know whether it will amount to anything but its superb that they both seem happy here,she is very big now whether this means eggs i don't know,just cool to see them enjoying themselves
regards
Stu


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> Hey Brandon,yeah sorry so long mate,the frogs and their children are keeping us very busy,we have tads all over the place,and around 25 little guys growing fast.So i'm really putting the time in to making sure we have enough springtails to keep them all well fed,i'm on a daily ritual for these now as we don't have much room for error especially in our first season.
> Our little summersi are courting have been for a good while now,i don't know whether it will amount to anything but its superb that they both seem happy here,she is very big now whether this means eggs i don't know,just cool to see them enjoying themselves
> regards
> Stu


yeah I understand that having multiple frogs is a lot of work and if you have jobs on top of that man I bet it is rough.
You clearly stated it was gonna be a slow thread so I knew what I was in for when I subscribed 
So no worries 

I have about 3 springtail cultures started and I don't even have frogs yet lol.
I'm gonna make sure I never run out lol but culture from what I've heard cultures can be unpredictable.

I bet it's awesome watching them all. I can't wait to get my thumbnails


----------



## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> yeah I understand that having multiple frogs is a lot of work and if you have jobs on top of that man I bet it is rough.
> You clearly stated it was gonna be a slow thread so I knew what I was in for when I subscribed
> So no worries
> 
> I have about 3 springtail cultures started and I don't even have frogs yet lol.
> I'm gonna make sure I never run out lol but culture from what I've heard cultures can be unpredictable.
> 
> I bet it's awesome watching them all. I can't wait to get my thumbnails


The frog work is alot mate ,but its a joy as well,i work 6 days as a carer, but there are 2 of us.
we cultured for a long long time before getting frogs,its very important,as you say,to gain as much expertise as possible with this.Its verydifficult Brandon not knowing how many little frogs we will have to feed so we are really going at it,around 20 small springtail cultures,maybe 10 larger ones,maybe 28 3L dwarf white iso,maybe 10 fast grey iso,3 giant orange iso,and around 20 large ff cultures mel hydie,plus catching the wild stuff for both tads and frogs. 
That might seem like a lot but its worth doing all this to actually be privaliged to live with these frogs,it IS awsome to watch them, and to have been so lucky to have them breed as well,is unreal, keep at it mate learn as much as you can when you get your frogs they will pay you back ten fold for any work you put in
good luck
Stu


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## stu&shaz

Wow i can't keep up,happy new year to every one. Where do i start,the attchis have just laid a second clutch leucs are breeding we have also got as of last night another clutch of panama specials,the first had no embryos but the second laid is fertile and developing ...result!! Our very first superblue auratus are now ready to find new homes we think i thought you should see some pics of them they are getting real big now,our guys seem to throw 3 basic colour patterns,2 of which feature here,the 3rd is much less of the blue and is appearing in the later hatches,






























































We are rightfully proud of them i guess,especially for our first bred darts,the oldest are already bigger than the panama specials,and closing on their parents,i suspect all the wild grub might be part of this,but hell i don't know, as always the pics don't really show the colours that turquoise is stunning
Stu


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## stu&shaz

here are a few pics of our tincs only the attachibakka are old enough to breed, she is amonster they seem very settled now and are coming out to see us,eggs are huge from them so a couple of shots of them first
the female








and the male








a citronella,these two are such characters,always pleading starvation








and our pr of macheto female first
















and the male









Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Her's our basti viv,no frogs yet with all we have going on there is no rush as ever so just letting it mature,and building feeder stocks,incidentally our dwarf white woodlice population is huge now, its really taken off last summer around 28 of these 3L cultures we have now








anyway pum




































Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Finally we live almost in the middle of England say a couple of miles from the coltswold escarpment,here are a few pictures of a magical little valley we know,they were taken on a grey old newyears eve. This place is like nothing i have ever seen anywhere else,this is NOT typical here. Because of some strange quirks this place gets little sun,we have walked here on the hottest of days, this valley is cool,and when all is windswept this is still.So as we can't get to where our frogs live we study pics in webland and use inspiration from this place,
If this wasn't taken on a grey day then with a bit of imagination,well you can see. I have spent lots of time in our native woodland but haven't seen moss grow on trees to this depth anywhere else



























a couple of pics of polypodium vulgare growing almost epiphytic
















































































take care all
Stu


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## mordoria

thats a super cool place. I love when moss can cover all the branches. Looks like there is some great liverworts to be found!


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## stu&shaz

mordoria said:


> thats a super cool place. I love when moss can cover all the branches. Looks like there is some great liverworts to be found!


hey David happy new year,i take photos leave footprints,too special to touch,this is so so rare here ,you can see the moss depth on some of the pics ,sometimes nearly a fingers depth deep.
You are right though about the liverworts,anything that likes damp,low air movement thrives here
Stu


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## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> Finally we live almost in the middle of England say a couple of miles from the coltswold escarpment,here are a few pictures of a magical little valley we know,they were taken on a grey old newyears eve. This place is like nothing i have ever seen anywhere else,this is NOT typical here. Because of some strange quirks this place gets little sun,we have walked here on the hottest of days, this valley is cool,and when all is windswept this is still.So as we can't get to where our frogs live we study pics in webland and use inspiration from this place,
> If this wasn't taken on a grey day then with a bit of imagination,well you can see. I have spent lots of time in our native woodland but haven't seen moss grow on trees to this depth anywhere else
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LOL I did the same thing on new years eve...went through the woods behind my house and walked along the stream back there and walked over fallen trees to get to the more remote places....it was fun.
I might post some pics but they are no where near as beautiful as this tho


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## stu&shaz

Bandon part of my living was made in woodland for too short a time,like many of us lost souls thats where i hung out as a child too,this place is very unique at least here anyway,its one of those genuine quirks that nature bestows upon us oh so rarely,and probably most would walk past with out noticing,its a shame that,even though you see what i do the light was not a bit better
Stu


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## DragonSpirit1185

stu&shaz said:


> Bandon part of my living was made in woodland for too short a time,like many of us lost souls thats where i hung out as a child too,this place is very unique at least here anyway,its one of those genuine quirks that nature bestows upon us oh so rarely,and probably most would walk past with out noticing,its a shame that,even though you see what i do the light was not a bit better
> Stu


Cool Cool. I was raised in the country and was always running around in the woods. I love flora and fauna.
You are so lucky to be in a country with such amazing history 
I hope to one day go to the Glastonbury Tor and walk through the archway of St. Micheal's Tower.
Participate in a Solstice at Stonehenge and wander the Salisbury Plains and check out the new excavations of Mike Parker Pearson....and few the excavations of the people who may have created Stonehenge. Durrington Walls Blue Stonehenge....
Such great history there 
I wanna move to England haha
Ok enough ranting...

Can't wait to see more updates


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## Popliteal

Just read through the entire thread.

Truly inspirational. Thank you for sharing, Stu, I will definitely aim to make my future tanks look as lovely as yours.

The fifth picture of the superblues also has some amazing patterning on it.


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## stu&shaz

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Cool Cool. I was raised in the country and was always running around in the woods. I love flora and fauna.
> You are so lucky to be in a country with such amazing history
> I hope to one day go to the Glastonbury Tor and walk through the archway of St. Micheal's Tower.
> Participate in a Solstice at Stonehenge and wander the Salisbury Plains and check out the new excavations of Mike Parker Pearson....and few the excavations of the people who may have created Stonehenge. Durrington Walls Blue Stonehenge....
> Such great history there
> I wanna move to England haha
> Ok enough ranting...
> 
> Can't wait to see more updates


I look out for a guy that is really interested in this stuff,it has never really grabbed me for some reason Brandon,i think you know more about this than i do, down this very valley ,and quite high up are the remains of a medieval village not much to see for sure,and funnily enough just behind our little cottage is the site of a black death village,during WW 2 lancaster bombers were run from around here,aparently the lost village of Poden came to light then,we're only a little island so i guess it can only be everywhere,and truly it is,
Stu


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## stu&shaz

Popliteal said:


> Just read through the entire thread.
> 
> Truly inspirational. Thank you for sharing, Stu, I will definitely aim to make my future tanks look as lovely as yours.
> 
> The fifth picture of the superblues also has some amazing patterning on it.


thanks its a little room but so much fun,i'm glad you got something from all this.
It has amazed us how all the superblues come out different,there is still a basic pattern yet to show,and also how many have a dot right on the tip of the nose,
much thanks
Stu


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## jausi

As allways great job!!!!


Its been a while since I have been able to check the dendroboard site and I'm always very impress with all the work you've done with your from room, those frogs are looknig good and healthy, keep up the awesome job!!! my friend.

Best regards

Felipe


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## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> As allways great job!!!!
> 
> 
> Its been a while since I have been able to check the dendroboard site and I'm always very impress with all the work you've done with your from room, those frogs are looknig good and healthy, keep up the awesome job!!! my friend.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Felipe


Hey Felipe,nice to hear from you again,thanks mate,so far so good....not a day goes by when we don't learn a little bit more,really pleased with progress so far couldn't really ask for more.We are loving it.
Happy new year dude
Stu


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## jausi

Hey Stu,


Did you use the UV light with your frogs at all?, I just read the entire threat again hehehe, and I was wondering how it turn out for your frogs and plants, I bet plants are growing like crazy with the UV light.

Do you have any recent pics??.

Best regards

Felipe


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## JeremyHuff

Stu,

I love this thread! I am looking to build similar shelving, as is a friend of mine. We wanted to know how you access the lights? Do you need to remove the tank or will the panel above the tank pop out?

Also, are the side panels the same material as the shelving panels? And do you build the tanks so the from and back edges rest on the aluminum cross beams or are they entirely on the shelf panel?

I'm sure I'll have more questions...

BTW, in the US, this site seems to have the best pricing for the components:

Quick Frame Introduction

I am waiting for the catalog.


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## Pawky

I love the setups thank you for sharing.


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## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> Hey Stu,
> 
> 
> Did you use the UV light with your frogs at all?, I just read the entire threat again hehehe, and I was wondering how it turn out for your frogs and plants, I bet plants are growing like crazy with the UV light.
> 
> Do you have any recent pics??.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Felipe


Yes we do Fillipe,we are gradually switching over to arcadia T5 6%,we like,you can get them over there from Todd,i think light your reptiles.com the colour is great and all is silly good with frogs,which is the reason your not seeing me much i'm being a dart frog breeder,plants like the lights to all good my friend hope you are well,i'm going to try and show some things in a minute once I've replied to you good folks
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

JeremyHuff said:


> Stu,
> 
> I love this thread! I am looking to build similar shelving, as is a friend of mine. We wanted to know how you access the lights? Do you need to remove the tank or will the panel above the tank pop out?
> 
> Also, are the side panels the same material as the shelving panels? And do you build the tanks so the from and back edges rest on the aluminum cross beams or are they entirely on the shelf panel?
> 
> I'm sure I'll have more questions...
> 
> BTW, in the US, this site seems to have the best pricing for the components:
> 
> Quick Frame Introduction
> 
> I am waiting for the catalog.


Hi Jeremy, i can't remember us ever speaking before so a huge thanks for the kindness.your going to have a much easier time than me,we can't get the variety of profile listed on your site you have linked,i had to pop rivit it all together bits of angle to bits of sq tube,hard graft but totally worth it.
Hell mate, i like designs that work,i'll go a long long way for a design that will work for me and make life easy for a long time,thats why we use these vivs,they work and same with the racking,no way i'm going to pull a viv to change a bulb I'm far to lazy,. Jeremy the 12cm space for lighting is covered by a 2white panels which are on white E shaped runners exactly like the viv doors(only they are black)So one can slide them to say check something...a leaking drainset,or simply push them upwards and remove them for a bulb change,these white board panels are 3mm as are the sides,the panels under the viv are 5mm,you'll have to work to the specifications of your profiles,i do it the hard way and work to the white board.Have a good stare at those early pics i'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about.
The 5mm board that sits under each viv is flush with the horizontal tubes but is not really load bearing, but being flush lets say supporting,you are exactly right the viv weight is being carried by the front and back crossmembers,the viv sits flush to the front and back of the rack,I'll add always always have a polystyrene tile or similar soft surface,glass viv vrs hard aluminium is only ever going to end in disaster!!!! make sure you allow for this in your build and cutting plans 
Jeremy i'm only a year in on darts,but,i have made things my whole life, i dispise the amount of bad designs and the incompetants that earn huge bucks making them with some passion it has to be said.This system works,its easy to clean,i don't have to try and stare past lights to see my beloved frogs,i tip some water out of a single collection tub and bleech it periodically. I can change a bulb in minutes. I worry about my frogs and don't think ever on the rack,which looks ok(or more) and 100% does its job,the time you invest in this and the money is just worth it,no one will convince me otherwise.There is little in my humble life I'm sure on I am on this
Stu .


----------



## stu&shaz

Our first frogs were Leucs,so as we approach the big 1yr of dart keeping how could i not be excited at these


































.
oh and you know about those great stinking Attachibakkas here's one of the first clutch they laid here, just starting to show some colour








,
we've being doing a fair bit of froggy stuff of late here are some tads









oh and some other ones









tad gizmo so far a resounding success,if i had more space i'm sure there would be more,damn what an easy way to rear tads...well so far ,at least totally no problems at all,i have had my thoughtful head on but still not worked out exactly how i can work more of these units in,not yet at least 
a mad week a while back



































as i eluded to a while back dwarf white cultures are stunning now they live up here 2 deep 2 high










and each come equipped with Stu proof labels  NB...water this end, with the vent placed at the other each culture has its own humidity gradient







.

So about 5 days from our 1st anarvesery as dart keepers a quick round up we have spare vivs set up and we want to build a rearing rack,but we can't really do much more beacause everywhere there are plants none of which can move untill it warms up abit.Some wonderful little froglets to talk to plenty of grub,i want desperately to be better at springtail culturing but we are properly ahead even on this score,we have a couple of new vivs underway 1/2 built,we lose very few tads now very very few,we are learning slowly but surely the art of the dry season. We have some stunning frogs that give us hours of joy and laughter. and friends all over the planet we are just simply loving being dart keepers,the 2years of research was worth every minute,and all we were going to do in this first year was learn how to care for and grow up to adulthood a few dendros,none of this breeding stuff,will someone please explain this to our frogs
take care guys
Stu


----------



## ggazonas

stu&shaz said:


> Hi Jeremy, i can't remember us ever speaking before so a huge thanks for the kindness.your going to have a much easier time than me,we can't get the variety of profile listed on your site you have linked,i had to pop rivit it all together bits of angle to bits of sq tube,hard graft but totally worth it.
> Hell mate, i like designs that work,i'll go a long long way for a design that will work for me and make life easy for a long time,thats why we use these vivs,they work and same with the racking,no way i'm going to pull a viv to change a bulb I'm far to lazy,. Jeremy the 12cm space for lighting is covered by a 2white panels which are on white E shaped runners exactly like the viv doors(only they are black)So one can slide them to say check something...a leaking drainset,or simply push them upwards and remove them for a bulb change,these white board panels are 3mm as are the sides,the panels under the viv are 5mm,you'll have to work to the specifications of your profiles,i do it the hard way and work to the white board.Have a good stare at those early pics i'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about.
> The 5mm board that sits under each viv is flush with the horizontal tubes but is not really load bearing, but being flush lets say supporting,you are exactly right the viv weight is being carried by the front and back crossmembers,the viv sits flush to the front and back of the rack,I'll add always always have a polystyrene tile or similar soft surface,glass viv vrs hard aluminium is only ever going to end in disaster!!!! make sure you allow for this in your build and cutting plans
> Jeremy i'm only a year in on darts,but,i have made things my whole life, i dispise the amount of bad designs and the incompetants that earn huge bucks making them with some passion it has to be said.This system works,its easy to clean,i don't have to try and stare past lights to see my beloved frogs,i tip some water out of a single collection tub and bleech it periodically. I can change a bulb in minutes. I worry about my frogs and don't think ever on the rack,which looks ok(or more) and 100% does its job,the time you invest in this and the money is just worth it,no one will convince me otherwise.There is little in my humble life I'm sure on I am on this
> Stu .


Stu,


Thanks alot. i am actually Jeremy's friend who is also thinking of building these stands. I am actually hoping to build one of these racks for (18) 30 gallon front opening cubes i had built by a local guy.

The info you provided will help me a lot in the planning.

thanks again

by the way everything lots great.


----------



## stu&shaz

ggazonas said:


> Stu,
> 
> 
> Thanks alot. i am actually Jeremy's friend who is also thinking of building these stands. I am actually hoping to build one of these racks for (18) 30 gallon front opening cubes i had built by a local guy.
> 
> The info you provided will help me a lot in the planning.
> 
> thanks again
> 
> by the way everything lots great.


Hey George,you're both more than welcome,any other questions fire them at us mate if we can help we will,its a fabulous design (not mine i hasten to add,i just made it doable here,UK) which WORKS.
Some silly things spend some deep thought on how you'll secure your lighting and how your drainage will work.also double check total height,especially if using a 3high system like ours,i say this because for a few minutes while putting it together there was absolute horror on my face because i couldn't stand the vertical section up.I was assembling in a different room,and did not realise we have different ceiling heights in our house,but those few mins aged me abit more than they should have
good luck
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Exactly one year ago today we got our very first frogs, our beloved leucs and exactly one year on, to the day we have this
pretty cool huh 5 out today 1 more to come one should still be swimming

















you couldn't make that up
Happy anniversary Shaz we got some new kids

Stu


----------



## alivetheycried

dam nice! i really like it


----------



## enfinite5

I dont even know what to say besides WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## stu&shaz

enfinite5 said:


> I dont even know what to say besides WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!


to both of you thanks
Bring on year 2 Just waiting for warm weather now so we can get all the plants back outside and then get organised.Once we have built 2 more vivs then i can set about building our final rearing rack,really looking forward to getting all this stage wrapped up.then we have a good few more vivs to build,much to do once the weather breaks
Stu


----------



## LarryLee

very awsome tanks..... Nice read


----------



## eos

Stu & Shaz, you folks are doing great! Lotsa breeding you're only 2 years in! Congrats! Keep the pics coming, I'm always looking thru this thread


----------



## stu&shaz

eos said:


> Stu & Shaz, you folks are doing great! Lotsa breeding you're only 2 years in! Congrats! Keep the pics coming, I'm always looking thru this thread


Well actually one year and 2 days of frogs Riko,plus a good bit of homework first.Mate thanks for following our little journey,and for your kind words along the way.Riko as you know only the other day,we both got to see your vivs and frogs,you do some great work mate,we really like your vivs,i was genuinely chuffed that they are so good,so i'm gonna chuck a congrats back at you,
thanks and nicely done sir
Stu


----------



## eos

Lol! 1 year?! Even better! Thanks again!


----------



## JeremyHuff

Stu,

Thans so much for the info. I am on vacation now, but the catalog should be waiting for me when I return. I'm excited to start planning this out.

J




stu&shaz said:


> Hi Jeremy, i can't remember us ever speaking before so a huge thanks for the kindness.your going to have a much easier time than me,we can't get the variety of profile listed on your site you have linked,i had to pop rivit it all together bits of angle to bits of sq tube,hard graft but totally worth it.
> Hell mate, i like designs that work,i'll go a long long way for a design that will work for me and make life easy for a long time,thats why we use these vivs,they work and same with the racking,no way i'm going to pull a viv to change a bulb I'm far to lazy,. Jeremy the 12cm space for lighting is covered by a 2white panels which are on white E shaped runners exactly like the viv doors(only they are black)So one can slide them to say check something...a leaking drainset,or simply push them upwards and remove them for a bulb change,these white board panels are 3mm as are the sides,the panels under the viv are 5mm,you'll have to work to the specifications of your profiles,i do it the hard way and work to the white board.Have a good stare at those early pics i'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about.
> The 5mm board that sits under each viv is flush with the horizontal tubes but is not really load bearing, but being flush lets say supporting,you are exactly right the viv weight is being carried by the front and back crossmembers,the viv sits flush to the front and back of the rack,I'll add always always have a polystyrene tile or similar soft surface,glass viv vrs hard aluminium is only ever going to end in disaster!!!! make sure you allow for this in your build and cutting plans
> Jeremy i'm only a year in on darts,but,i have made things my whole life, i dispise the amount of bad designs and the incompetants that earn huge bucks making them with some passion it has to be said.This system works,its easy to clean,i don't have to try and stare past lights to see my beloved frogs,i tip some water out of a single collection tub and bleech it periodically. I can change a bulb in minutes. I worry about my frogs and don't think ever on the rack,which looks ok(or more) and 100% does its job,the time you invest in this and the money is just worth it,no one will convince me otherwise.There is little in my humble life I'm sure on I am on this
> Stu .


----------



## stu&shaz

JeremyHuff said:


> Stu,
> 
> Thans so much for the info. I am on vacation now, but the catalog should be waiting for me when I return. I'm excited to start planning this out.
> 
> J


As with George your welcome, safe trip! if i can be of help in any small way both just shout. 
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

I guess that if you follow this you know that sooner or later I'm going to go off on one.
we do very simple barbiques,the best wood, a simple fire, seriously simple well cooked food, our barbi is simply a pile of stones and a fire,each year we very gently give it a clean out, use the ash for the veg the reason for gentle is i have other friends, we try to help a little bit here,gentle i said to my lad he was and here's why
Bufo bufo moved to somewhere a bit safer so she can get ready for the onslaught of breeding,I'll never come to terms with the beauty of those eyes..... ha the simple things in life









Stu


----------



## eos

Love me some bufo. That's a cool little resident


----------



## ggazonas

Stu


how long did it take you to cut all that aluminum? 

Just wondering so I know what i'm getting into.

Fortunately I won't need to rivet anything since I can get it with the nagle bar already attached.

Looking great by the way.


----------



## stu&shaz

ggazonas said:


> Stu
> 
> 
> how long did it take you to cut all that aluminum?
> 
> Just wondering so I know what i'm getting into.
> 
> Fortunately I won't need to rivet anything since I can get it with the nagle bar already attached.
> 
> Looking great by the way.


Hi George,its a good bit of graft,but my work load will be say double,estimate what yours will be,i'm not really sure on time now,George,i get my head down and do,i do simple mutliple things,very efficiently,i guess,the riviting is a bigger more taxing deal.
George on every level i can offer this,do not even think about attempting this with a hacksaw.
you want a really good chopsaw,and a proper blade dedicated to cutting aluminium of the thickness of your profiles,if you could split the cost between both of you of a table with a length stop than it might be worth considering,all down to your budget. I hope you know what i mean by chopsaw,it might translate differently also called a compound mitre saw,here.It needs to be of good quality so accurate cut 45 degree angles can be cut as well as perfect 90's,everything will also need deburring,i found a stiff leather glove and my fingers ideal,we wouldn't want bits of swarf ending up inviv!! It is also imperative that you wear safety goggles,(it has to be said for all i'm not being patronising).
Cut everything to length first,and then all 45's one end and then the other direction is definitely the most efficent use of your time.
Cut all the pvc foamboard with a sharp stanley knife and steal ruler,gently score first and then heavier scores your blade will follow the first and this is much more efficient than using a saw and much cleaner.
With good tools and a little self discipline you'll rattle though it George don't be put off,your going to enjoy this rack for a very long time its worth the effort,
its nice for a novice to put a bit back for so much help given so anything i can throw at you just ask
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

eos said:


> Love me some bufo. That's a cool little resident


thanks riko we'll have then all about soon,thats when we have to be real careful at night,i'm not doing so much music now but they used to find their way into my studio,which has always amazed me it is incredibly dry and i'm a very noisey drummer,we are very lucky they like it here
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Too much is going on of late,so i'm accumulating a backlog of things to show you guys
so where to start
here are some of our early suberblue auratus 



























more of our first batch of leucs...look out for Alien



























spent a bit of time with a couple of girls doing one of those glamour shoots,fortunately they were very nice and cooperative,can't be doing with prima donnas





































above was Millie our macheto female below is Tank our Mt Attachibakka lass



























Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Panama special auratus












































oh and our very first attachi froglet not putting on weight at a huge rate,unfortunately we lost the other 2 from the first clutch of 2 with what i can only describe as mild sls the legs were formed fine but just thin,noticable observation is that this one took longer to morph by nearly 2 weeks, and the others both had their "hands" stuck, might be a first clutch thing but we have already started a regime of bi monthly vit A and striven hard to get as much wild grub into the tads as possible,in a few days the next lot of tads will morphout so fingers crossed for them heartbreaking to tell but very important that folks see good and bad,and what happens as we try to address problems such as this.

















and finally our very first pan. specialall good here and for some reason a week or 2 infront of its siblings,i'm thinking this one got more wild grub than the others ,it seems to put growth on tads with no observed ill effects so far
and good strong legs to end on a high after our bit of heartbreak


















take care all
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Hey guys,no we haven't gone away ,we are still here still obsessed still having a ball,tads always froglets always,ever bigger springtails cultures...erm always, bla bla

Anyway,where to start.
our first 3 attachi froglets had a very very mild sls,after that well all good almost to the egg,,i just cannot remember anything anywhere going wrong,hell lets do few words and more pics,

Attachi kids






















































beautifully marked suberblue,we call blue nose


















other SB kids,ern big kids


















some panama special auratus,i noted the dark froglets,they turn paler with age,this is probably all caused by inbreeding,not as strong in the egg stage as SB's,after that yeah were doing alright great faces on some of these

















a couple of a dark froglet against a normal



























little leuc










springtails,yeah there is loads more ,but hell some is ok


















tad food










failed experiment to cultivate greenfly outside yeilds wonderment





































rare import









little guy off to morph out









special









more leucs








tad gizmo full









more tads reared in glasses










attachi,closing on front legs popping









plum aphid,pencil for perspective









munchies









some tads








and a local lass taking a bath underneath our lounge window



























night all
best
Stu


----------



## frogface

Great pics! Thanks for sharing 

Put me on the list for your rare import offspring


----------



## eos

Wow! You guys are up to your ears in tads! Nice!!


----------



## MvFrogs

I immediately saw that you were European. The EU style of frog rack and tanks with front opening sliding doors  . VERY VERY NICE room, I think this is the dream of every dart frog keeper. Also very nice supplies of food


----------



## stu&shaz

frogface said:


> Great pics! Thanks for sharing
> 
> Put me on the list for your rare import offspring


Hi Kris,I'll keep you in mind kiddo,they are slow to get going,i might be able to get a pic of some potential breeding activity for you,but they are abit camera shy
thankyou

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

eos said:


> Wow! You guys are up to your ears in tads! Nice!!


Ha up to our ears in all of it Rico,having a ball, long time no speak bro hope your well,its keeping us very busy and very focused. 

oh your photos are outstanding mate,I've been , following ,but not posting much
best
Stu


----------



## isoletes

Read the whole thread very very nice. Especially liked your rocks.

Take care and good luck with all of your babies

Lu


----------



## stu&shaz

MvFrogs said:


> I immediately saw that you were European. The EU style of frog rack and tanks with front opening sliding doors  . VERY VERY NICE room, I think this is the dream of every dart frog keeper. Also very nice supplies of food


 Hiya,nah mate we're English.but your bang on the designs are based on what they have come up with in europe,they just work so well.
ok as we have made it all I've put our stamp on things. Its sort of a childhood dream realised for me aswell .
Thankyou for the kind words on our little project,we are really doing everything feeder wise to overkill,being as we are still very much novices its probably more important to us,than more experianced folks to get all bases covered in this respect. Especially with all the little froglets that have graced us with their presence.
We have 3 different types of iso and have just aquired another 2 types of springtail to add to our supply ,of feeders,plus the obvious FF and all the wild stuff our frogs and tads get 

After getting a few frogs last year we have been really focused on building strong methods of rearing etc, next will probably be a focus on building more vivs and then more frogs,we still have vivs standing empty 
waiting for what we are questing for,but this very slow approach is serving us well
thanks again
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

isoletes said:


> Read the whole thread very very nice. Especially liked your rocks.
> 
> Take care and good luck with all of your babies
> 
> Lu


Thanks Lu, I needed to find a weight saving way of doing the rockwork as i have used so much recycled glass. Its real fun because you can't really predict what the outcome will be.But they are fooling folks who come here and see them ,which is cool.My real kick comes from the fact that i can pick up a fake rock and there are iso living under them just like in nature,i love that!!

our regards to you Lu and the best for your frogkeeping too
belucky

Stu


----------



## Dev30ils

Wow, somehow I've never seen this thread before. Your entire setup is amazing! Congrats on all of your breeding success!

Anyone in the US ever go about building a similar setup with the aluminum? Just curious really since the design is so much cleaner looking than your typical baker's rack.


----------



## The Wolfe

WOW!!!
I just found this thread and the tanks you build are awesome everything in them look so natural!! And the tub for the tadpoles is such a great idea, all your work is great! Once again WOW, there not much more that that that can be said. Hope you don't mind if I copy some of the idea that you have used? And one quick question do you think people sell the "camo auratus" in canada? Thanks for such a great thread and keep us updated please!

The Wolfe


----------



## stu&shaz

Dev30ils said:


> Wow, somehow I've never seen this thread before. Your entire setup is amazing! Congrats on all of your breeding success!
> 
> Anyone in the US ever go about building a similar setup with the aluminum? Just curious really since the design is so much cleaner looking than your typical baker's rack.


Hi Matt,
i kept some phibs as a kid say 30plus yrs ago,when we started our dart escapades,i had issues from childhood they were two fold.
I quested to find our how the vivs had improved,i wanted to be able to see our animals,not be staring at condensation,in a fish tank converted to a viv,i also wanted a design of racking that looked very clean and obscured the lights, which also hampered my viewing pleasure.I didn't want to build in wood,its too bulky and has potential to warp. I found the above designs on a german site, which fulfilled my criteria and set about making it all for us from scratch. speak to Jeremy Huff,or George Gazonis(George my humble apologies i'm sure i have spelt your surname wrong,but i can't see why) ,as they have contacted me on this thread and i believe have built out their rooms with a similar design of racking, forgive my blunt way of putting it Matt,but bakers racks are good for bread and erm fish tanks suit fish rather well
Thanks


I've not posted for a while,as we have been so busy with the frogs,which is why you possibly haven't seen this thread before
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

The Wolfe said:


> WOW!!!
> I just found this thread and the tanks you build are awesome everything in them look so natural!! And the tub for the tadpoles is such a great idea, all your work is great! Once again WOW, there not much more that that that can be said. Hope you don't mind if I copy some of the idea that you have used? And one quick question do you think people sell the "camo auratus" in canada? Thanks for such a great thread and keep us updated please!
> 
> The Wolfe


G'day Wolfe,
buddy we are new guys ,i can see little point in posting,if its not of help to others,or it makes folks explore a slightly different take on keeping a dart to that ,which they themselves use. None of these designs are really mine,I've stolen pretty much all of it,and amended details as is my way. the tad gimzo,as i call it works well, i'm seriously pleased with it.Its effortless and results are pretty much as good as they could be ,considering we have been keeping darts since feb 2011. I'll add this caviat 24 tads sharing one volume of water,inherently carries a risk!!!Growth inhibitors seem non existent,the earliest auratus we have reared as at least as big as their parents.

Thankyou for the words on the vivs,we look hard study many pics and try to pull it all together,from a rainforest we have never walked, its tricky,we spend hours in our native temperate woodland,looking at the forest floor,it helps i think, we try and translate this into our vivs,i hope this paragraph makes some sense,i struggle with words and letters,its not always easy to get across what i'm trying to convey

finally yup i originally thought we'd bought camo auratus,a friend in Holland raised concearns,i contacted Mark Pepper as these frogs come from UE....via other parties!!!!! Mark very kindly took some of his valuable time to educate me, i have so much respect for him and what he is doing.
Hence somewhere someone got confused,between Mark pepper and us,on this morph.So this morph is available in Canada,we call them superblues here,or alternatively they are known as blue on bronze i believe. So yes they should be available from the exact source as mine in Canada,i hope this helps
regards
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Hmmm, i'm so busy I'm always behind on my updates here,so always seem to open with an apology, for not saying "Hey" to everyone more often.

Shaz has some dream frogs,they are azuereus and the cemetery morph of bastimentos pumillio.I've finally got both sort of sorted,although i think the azzies might be 3 girls,so for the moment i'll focus on the cems.

I've got them in a QT tub for the moment,so picks are not the best,its just basically a form of isolation to allow us to watch the hell out of them.Please forgive not the best pics. They are hell bent on breeding even though I really wanted them to just rest,so we made up this little gizmo incase we have to move them with tads to the viv .Once I've built the viv out and am happy everything is cool,this might just give us options.
I took a holesaw to abit of oak,please be careful if you try this,these tools bite!!!








Now i can simply insert cans,and if i want to remove this if i can get them to a viv,I can simply pop out each can as it is vacated.









Some of our group of 4 ,we think 3 females one male,the male is the noisiest small frog in blighty methinks,a proper little character

.























































A bit graphic ,but fascinating to watch all this happening,which is why we keep darts i guess, such a privilege to see all this in a glass box...all bewidering to us










I'm trying to build a slightly "out there" build for these frogs,in that I have a burning desire to put a tomb in their viv. If this slightly zany build works out,then the tomb has been hollowed out and will act as sort of a refugium for springtails and iso . sort of a vertical substrate. . honestly i don't know whether this will work,but as you have already seen,I'm one for trying things. I want to bring all the breeding activity right up front,so have installed film cans which are actually hidden in the viewing angle,but can be seen,if one moves around abit.Shaz has wanted these for ages,but we do things very slow,we didn't want to rush in to pums to soon.Now if all this goes to plan she will see everything.




























Front view of the viv, early stages of build,










and a poor pic of the foam work,manipulated as usual as it starts to cure :

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx37/soundstounite/IMG_3711
.jpg










Epitaph a doff of the cap to what might happen if they build all over red frog beech,the top of the tomb will probably be removable,but I'll probably fix the base in place,I'm being seriously thoughtfull about gaps and froglets getting stuck. I'm pondering a slow to breakdown organic substrate inside the tomb,consisting of thick sticks probably oak and other hardwoods,plus some very thick leaves ie evrgreen magnolia (possibly grandiflora)

















some details of the tomb rear drainage for planter




















I have another build underway which looks like this 




























Oh to finish up here is "Tiger" dad Atachibakka "Tank" mum Atachibakka with a froglet..."Tinytank",which out of curiosity,we are attemtping to rear with mum and dad,we love this type of thing,it also makes a change for us from all the kids we have pulled which are stonkers and eating for England




























bring it on

Stu


----------



## TheCoop

Simply stunning!! Everything you have done there is amazing!! Pays to be handy lol..


----------



## jausi

Man!!! your always doing something great

I wish I had the time and money t do that, just amazin!!!!!


----------



## briley5

Hello Stu and Shaz, I cant tell you how much I have enjoyed reading this thread start to finish today (and it took most of the day lol). I am new to this also and did tons of research before we got our first frogs. And I agree with you in that their are so so many helpful people in this community. Your pics and shared knowledge have been such an inspiration. Everything looks so natural and peaceful, such a well thought out room and set up. Thank you for sharing it all.


----------



## stu&shaz

TheCoop said:


> Simply stunning!! Everything you have done there is amazing!! Pays to be handy lol..


thanks,well I'm not sure about handy,but bloody stubborn sort of fits well

kind words 
regards

Stu


----------



## curlykid

These are the best vivs I have ever seen. You have a very good eye for nature and craftsmanship mate. It seems as though all Europeans do.


----------



## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> Man!!! your always doing something great
> 
> I wish I had the time and money t do that, just amazin!!!!!


Hey bro hope your well!

Time we make ,money well not much really buddy,I'm a care worker,i look after a sick guy,its the job here that no one wants,pay is poor.Ha but we are rich in other ways hey mate.I make pretty much all of it,we grow pretty much all the plants we save a little bit everywhere.
So a good dose of optimism means anyone can do this,
thanks for the consistent support

best

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

briley5 said:


> Hello Stu and Shaz, I cant tell you how much I have enjoyed reading this thread start to finish today (and it took most of the day lol). I am new to this also and did tons of research before we got our first frogs. And I agree with you in that their are so so many helpful people in this community. Your pics and shared knowledge have been such an inspiration. Everything looks so natural and peaceful, such a well thought out room and set up. Thank you for sharing it all.


Brenda,
your really welcome and I'm glad you got something from all this.Your words are so true,i couldn't even hope to list the help the time the support we have been blessed with by dartfrog nuts from all walks of life all over the planet.

Hmm it is peaceful until the ruddy leucs wake up,bless em our 3 boys have taken it upon themselves to try and get in touch with their kin in S. America,bless 'em its fabulous to sit with them when we are trying to wake up

cheers for the kindness 
from us both


----------



## stu&shaz

curlykid said:


> These are the best vivs I have ever seen. You have a very good eye for nature and craftsmanship mate. It seems as though all Europeans do.


Bro we're English,I'm messing with ya Nick
Your right in that the Dutch especially with their designs and planting ability are a massive inspiration too us. Beyond that,we sort of look really hard,and use a lot of temperate woodland as a sort of model ,because we know it well. Then its down to finding where each frog lives and stealing a slice of their habitat. I'm not really sure if that has come over very well,it is difficult to outline the thought process behind a viv design whilst still taking into account the actual subconcious influences,that drive that design. I often have a particular photo in mind when building. 

Hmm I best stop waffling and just say thank you for your kind words huh 
thanks man

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

We are still here still froggers and busy ones last post rambled on about cem basti and a gizmo to rear some kids in,we did ok I think





































rearing away from parents




























Pretty much as they are now..a couple of days back





































some time last summer whist on the cem basti trail we got some red frog beach the import here was spare and very very male heavy,we bought 6 I also had high hopes that one lass was erm a lass but we got lucky and now have 2 breeding females after months of QT and still no answers on sex we put them all together,yes I do know I'm playing with fire ,but we desparately needed conformation of sex as we bought 3 prs. sure enough we got our conformation we have 2 fertile females and the tiniest male is dominant,I'll add here we have 2fold backups ready to split but this is happening so well all frogs look great we are both watching,the group dynamic is fascinating the viv set up over a year and ....





















































as of today we can confirm 4 kids possibly 5
some other cool kids

SB auratus siblings


















Atachibakka



















Leucs


















Stu


----------



## IdartYou

Hey Stu, can I request a picture of the whole room? Like from the entrance door.  I know it's weird but I'd like to see the whole thing. 

Thanks


----------



## stu&shaz

This is from exactly the position you asked for taken around Christmas I think









Most vivs here are 50cm sq base and 40cm high. The two top left are 60cm high

To my left of the doorway, there is a 6 viv rack that is not visible with 4 inhabited vivs and 2 yet to build. Vivs in this rack have a 2'sq footprint,which is roughly 60cmx60cm . It consists of 4 2'cubes and 2 only 40 high so around 16" so quite low and very deep.Needs must as otherwise the top vivs would be too high and the rack wouldn't fit to room height,you'll find pictures of this rack somewhere in this morass,I don't have anything up to date at this time,unfortunately
regards

Stu


----------



## IdartYou

Wow that is amazing. Thank you so much for that!

Thanks!!

Phil


----------



## jazzziiiblack

the most amazing tanks and thread ive read! it changed my whole view on keeping and also makes me crave moving aboard to a country where I can keep these fantastic creatures! so so jelly!!


----------



## rigel10

Very nice frogroom. I love your frogs, especially Red frog beach (from the pic I thought they were Salt Creek)!Please, you continue to update this your thread.


----------



## stu&shaz

jazzziiiblack said:


> the most amazing tanks and thread ive read! it changed my whole view on keeping and also makes me crave moving aboard to a country where I can keep these fantastic creatures! so so jelly!!


Thanks Jazzi,very kind,some of the vivs on this board are amazing,so the words are humbling. where do you live OZ maybe(sorry Australia)?
thanks

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

rigel10 said:


> Very nice frogroom. I love your frogs, especially Red frog beach (from the pic I thought they were Salt Creek)!Please, you continue to update this your thread.


The red frogbeach are bigger than Salt creek Rigel,but smaller than the cemetery morph by just a tiny amount. The spots are less numerous,absent in some individuals and smaller. All of them range in colour from orange through to red. All of them have white bellies and creamish colour on the legs/feet,moreso the hind lags I'm as sure as I can be that they are named correctly,I have shown pics to some guys that have been to Bocas and they seem to think they look right. As I do more and more research so I get more confused as to what is actually on Bastimentos. A great example comes from Chris Vanderlingan's video,he illustrates an area where the frogs are mainly cream in colour.This is the first time I have ever heard of this.

We have had them breeding most of the summer,but I believe brom failure has cost us the froglets.I waited and waited before taking the plunge and pulling almost all the broms and replacing them. Naturally I didn't want to do anything drastic while we had tads in them. I think I should have moved sooner. I found one tad during the change over.I have seen this tad breifly about a month later,so it looks like mum has found him. Hopefully this will make it ootw soon and we can get back on track,at least one tad has been carried in the last couple of weeks. It is really important we get them going as I need to help a mate,whom has 4 males.Between us we should be able to secure them here for a very long time.

Sorry I haven't updated much,it's somewhat ironic to find this thread here today as I've been pondering an update these last few days,basically I have been grafting 6 days a week since christmas,throw in the froggy chores and my time has been stretched. But having said that we have had a good summer,after a horrible start to the year,which i won't dwell on. We are working on growing to Attachis to the best size we can get,basically growing them on in very low stocking densities and feeding really well. We set a few leucs and superblue auratus eggs over the last few weeks,and have some good strong tadpoles growing really well. These are being fed mainly wild food,and damn aren't they growing. 

The cem bastis have produced a couple of cracking froglets and have recently stepped up a gear,I have no reason for the singles other than maybe females destroying each others eggs. Anyway we now have at least 4 in the water.
Here's the one that morphed out recently,stunning little thing,again highlighting the joy of the cemetery morph,one simple doesn't know what the next froglet will look like


Oh well we are talking pums,we have pulled all the cem bastis,just before they came ootw,it's worked really well so far the tiny kids pictured earlier are now in a big tub and doing great,we lost one RFB kid,very sad,but it was always behind the others,the other 3 are going great and also in larger quarters,my intention is to keep until I can sex,then hopefully some will go into our breeding projects.

For some reason our leucs have never carried,I keep leaving eggs for the boys,but no joy.Oneday I found a little hatched tad,which had fallen from its can about a foot up the viv,I plonked him in the front ditch and let him go.That little guy morphed out fine,now he thinks I'm his best mate,he is so bold it's unreal:while trying to feed him recently I had him striking my hand,here he is a while back



Our atachibakka tincs,both carried tads,the female purposely went back and got another after dropping her first


and the male


Oh we have also been growing some epiweb moss mix on ecoearth,outside of the viv,the idea is to cut down the waiting time when seeding a viv,and also to provide a method for others here to use,many folks struggle with this mix,it must be kept wet and well lit





Transplanted into a viv it looks cool,just like seedlings starting to take off on some wood


We are just making up some more vivs,its good to be back building again,not much to show yet,but as things progress we'll show more.

We now have vast stocks of food the charcoal springtail method working well.Woodlice(iso) method illustrated here somewhere is also producing fantastic results,I'm constantly told that folks have never seen an iso culture like that,when they visit.But for me that matters not,it 's just nice to know they are their and I can feed all our frogs kids an all,without making a dent in the population,it's also enabled us to get some proper starters out to mates here and get them off to a flying start,a couple of hundred in a starter go nuts very quickly if down right. FF well Shaz has had a proper fight this summer,we bought some new strains and got a bugger of a mite,using the sieving method,with vit dust,we are now almost back to normal. The major problem that slowed progress was getting the right size mesh to use,the mites are big and tolerences fine for mesh size as the mels were dropping through as well as the mites,a lucky spot by shaz got us a range of sieves,from which I cut the mesh,attached it to the jar tops and progress finally started

ha ha that's about all for the moment,there is more,but 

seeya

Stu


----------



## mfsidore

Probably the most successful,stunning awesome,cool,frogtastic, dodo,dada,ting I have ever seen


----------



## stu&shaz

mfsidore said:


> Probably the most successful,stunning awesome,cool,frogtastic, dodo,dada,ting I have ever seen


Mike I don't really think it is,but I genuinely thank you for the sentiments,more than that,damn you made me laugh,that my friend is priceless after a day like today
Damn  thanks man. 

best

Stu


----------



## jazzziiiblack

stu&shaz said:


> Thanks Jazzi,very kind,some of the vivs on this board are amazing,so the words are humbling. where do you live OZ maybe(sorry Australia)?
> thanks
> 
> Stu


ive seen many of the amazing vivs on here and I do prefer yours over all! 
yeh I live in Australia, in new south wales, in a tiny town call Jervis Bay, maybe you've heard of it. we can keep any really spectacular little species like these we can only keep natives so I have about 7 green tree frogs, slightly different to the species you get over there but still a pretty good substitute for now


----------



## jazzziiiblack

also, sorry if you mentioned it, ive read this thread twice now and didn't see it, how did you attach the cork to the glass? as ive just picked up some to use as the backing for my viv and am planning to hopefully have growth on it one day, just don't want to kill it by using the wrong adhesive


----------



## stu&shaz

jazzziiiblack said:


> also, sorry if you mentioned it, ive read this thread twice now and didn't see it, how did you attach the cork to the glass? as ive just picked up some to use as the backing for my viv and am planning to hopefully have growth on it one day, just don't want to kill it by using the wrong adhesive


Ahh thanks Jazzz,I'm a humble guy,I get a bit frazzled by the kindness I receive, I thought as much,I think the only other country that can't keep darts is Norway,but that might be wrong. I sympathise mate,but you do have some amazing natives over there.

We use frog safe silicone Jazz,basically aquarium silicone,it's exactly the same stuff I build the vivs with. It much be free of fungicides,so don't use the stuff they build houses or bathrooms with. I actually use a brand called silirub AQ it's made by Soudal.It is designed for building aquariums and grabs better than any other brand I've tried so far,just in case you can get it in Oz

take care

Stu


----------



## jazzziiiblack

arh thank you very much, we have an aquarium silicone over here to, made by sellys, thanks! now to start mine


----------



## stu&shaz

This one goes out to me Canuck mate,finally 2/12 years in bro,one of them, Happy, has worked it out,not only that but he's done it again today and snuck one by me aswell,better than me scraping tads of leaves anytime










This I have been waiting on for what seems like forever,quick recap,failed broms,pull almost all broms, find one tiny tad,replace him orientate brom to correct position so tad is in right place,wait and HOPE for mum to work it out,a month or so later I spot movement,she has to have found him....today the waiting stopped,stunning beautiful and strong,bless the tiny thing. I have a cem basti along side this RFB,he's around 1/2 to 3/4 the size of the cem,whom is still pondering leaving the water,it's scary out there!! Pulled and moved to his new home plus instated in a film can


















bring it on 

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Trying to take off from where I left off,our first year breeding pums,almost all da kids,cem bastis and red frog beach bastis

















































































Probably more,but hey ho,i'm shattered .We keep darts,we graft,more soon....ish


take care

Stu


----------



## JayMillz

Great looking frogs & pictures Stu! Bastis are on my wanted list if we ever move and have space for more vivs. They're such cool looking frogs!


----------



## PumilioTurkey

Great frog rack!

Cool that most people in Europe are jusing the aluminium ones like mine 

I'd love to have a spare room which I could use for frogs only.


----------



## stu&shaz

JayMillz said:


> Great looking frogs & pictures Stu! Bastis are on my wanted list if we ever move and have space for more vivs. They're such cool looking frogs!


thanks Josh,I can't help but worry about the cemetery morph in the wild josh,I think we really need to breed these,with some effort. We have another possible unrelated pr,in qt, my hopes are one day to provide,unrelated prs here,part of the reason I'm holding the kids back. Same ethos on the rfb. I'd really like more pum morphs,but maybe the way forward is to have a couple or 3 tanks of just a few morphs. I'm not totally against the imports,concerned yes,but I do think this might be a good way to make more of them. to my unlearned eye we are not seeing them fixed by the hobby like they should be.
We should be starting to see baby pums all ways now!!


Yes they are such beautiful frogs,they have been a joy to keep,i'm a fussy old sod,it took us a long time to build the confidence to think we were good enough to keep them,it was so hard not going for it sooner. but with hindsight,one of my better moves. I'm pulling all the offspring now,just left the very first RFB a while in viv,so far so good. One and only loss was actually,one of those left in viv,but for some reason he was never really strong,shame not to get the 100% though,but we can't,even shouldn't rear all I suppose. They have to be strong!!

thanks

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

PumilioTurkey said:


> Great frog rack!
> 
> Cool that most people in Europe are jusing the aluminium ones like mine
> 
> I'd love to have a spare room which I could use for frogs only.


I guess I was one of the first here, to get my head down and build it from scratch.It was very slow,as we can't get the variety of profiles you can,so had to rivit all the bits together,that's also the reason mine utilizes white foamboard,we don't seem to be able to source the black,mind I like it. It looks so damn clean and these racks seen to beat anything else hands down,ha so I went there got dirty and here we are.

Me I want a bigger room,froggers we are never satisfied

thank you

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Finishing up a 2'cube background for Oophaga histrionica Redhead

LHS










Center view










RHS










Some baby leucs,just ootw









one of our young pan specials,about a year old,ready for a new home










We are working up a method to rear a tinc to as close to WC size as we can get,we seem to be on track at around 18 months,I need this one. For me a proper challenge,too many stunted tincs around so we are hell bent on getting this right. Possible female Attachibakka wonderful frogs










Happy new year folks thanks for all the help have a great new year,

best

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

I'm so pleased we managed to get the big viv into the rack without braking anything not the easiest place to put a 2'cube right against a wall and at head height,but needs must.









Here's the basic planting completed ,pretty much:

LHS










Central view










RHS










We may well use filmcans not broms for the redheads to breed in,I'm not totally sure yet,but the wood has been drilled with a holesaw ready to hide the cans if we decide that is where we want to go.

We are also starting to prove out some of the young pums now some RFB are in a small viv and the first cem bast has called

take care

Stu


----------



## Meefloaf

i love the main branch in there, gorgeous


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## stu&shaz

Meefloaf said:


> i love the main branch in there, gorgeous


Free English oak Joe,what can I say,no air miles looks great,hard as hell(no fun to cut holes in),I love the stuff. I've used it in every viv now buddy,it looks like it lasts well too.

thanks mate

Stu

Ps If any one does use a holesaw on hard wood like this,please be careful,really try to keep the saw on in line with the hole one is cutting,really brace your arms.Get it out of alinement with the hole and the saw will grab,the drill them turns taking you with it!!


----------



## Meefloaf

i really must pop out to the woods, you just can't get the knarled twisted stuff in a shop, rarely, the one in my leuc viv was ace, a twisted S almost


----------



## stu&shaz

It's out there Joe,the dead branches up a bit are those to covet,its so hard it weathers beautifully.The only thing more beatiful I've seen here was some Yew maybe someone might tell us if Yew is safe,this definitely wasn't situated on top of a cliff face a 100'plus up.

Now how does an oophaga work out that if she lays on day X her tads will morph on the same day her eggs hatch? This isn't the first time this has happened and not all the same species/morph either,once might be co incidence,but not how often we have seen this,anyway here's the clever mum in question this time.










best

Stu


----------



## goof901

How are you getting the tincs to WC size?
Any specific methods?


----------



## stu&shaz

goof901 said:


> How are you getting the tincs to WC size?
> Any specific methods?


Hi,what's you name?

Mate we are not quite there yet,I'm banking on it being a two year mission,but all looks very promising,but is a work in progress. The main 3 parameters are these,one preventing breeding of the young adults 2 sustained good food freely available.3 Stocking densities low enough to prevent any undue stress or competition between frogs.

I suppose all this really starts with first getting the best quality embryo in the eggs,so parental diet mature frogs good vitamins in date are all to be taken on board. The tads are reared with a good varied diet,we use two types of tera pro flishflake,NLS amphibian formula pettelts cycloopsEEZE and also a fair amount of wild caught live grub,so mossi larvea,midges larvea,bloodworms and even tiny baby waterboatmen have featured. You'll note I'm in England so these might not be available to you. I source from vertical waterbutts where I've never seen an amphibian in 20years,on a protperty that has been organic for around that length of time.

The kids are reared from the off in biggish tubs as they grow I steadily split the numbers so they always have enough space,when they get to somewhere around the 14 month mark i'm trying to keep sexes apart,but by this time the majority are down to one frog per tub anyway. They recieve almost daily feeds of springtails, plus dusted flies 3 times or so a week maybe more,naturally I'm watching weight carefully,but during the teen months they just seem to grow not put on weight so much. I also feed wild grub mainly aphid when ever I can get it. I guess once evry few weeks they also get a feed of iso,I keep a lot of feeders and probably do overkill on this,but I always worry about being short if we get a crash. somewhere around that 14 month mark,maybe a bit earlier they do start to put on more weight to feeding is ammened.

Then they simply grow on slowly until that two year point is reached when hopefully my goal has been reached. So it's a long slow process,for me something where one is trying to do one's absolute best,right the way through for the frogs on a daily basis.

I hope this helps,I repeat I'm not there yet,but they are big frogs and I'm pleased with our progress. 

The method is basically passed on to me by others,Glenn(frogfreak) is primary amongst those,as well as being a good friend,he is an awesome ting keeper,I have huge respect for him and his eyes as a stockman, I would also thank Judy S, Todd S, Ed and Jon(rusty Shakleford) for their help and thoughts too,if this works out all credit to them,great guys all,and all have our thanks for the help they have given us along the way.

good luck

Stu


----------



## Meefloaf

I went to a show where Stu had some of his tinc's on show, and had i not turned up for milk frogs and been seduced by Leucs, i had been very (and i i stress very) tempted by purchasing one of his 2012 Azureus Mustangs lol my pugeot 106 was smaller  (and probably less likely to get me home in one piece)


----------



## Alexmenke92

stu&shaz said:


> Finishing up a 2'cube background for Oophaga histrionica Redhead
> 
> LHS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Center view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RHS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some baby leucs,just ootw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> one of our young pan specials,about a year old,ready for a new home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are working up a method to rear a tinc to as close to WC size as we can get,we seem to be on track at around 18 months,I need this one. For me a proper challenge,too many stunted tincs around so we are hell bent on getting this right. Possible female Attachibakka wonderful frogs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy new year folks thanks for all the help have a great new year,
> 
> best
> 
> Stu



On the tank, how did you guys do the rocks? Did you use foam / drylock / epoxy? Thanks!


----------



## stu&shaz

Meefloaf said:


> I went to a show where Stu had some of his tinc's on show, and had i not turned up for milk frogs and been seduced by Leucs, i had been very (and i i stress very) tempted by purchasing one of his 2012 Azureus Mustangs lol my pugeot 106 was smaller  (and probably less likely to get me home in one piece)


He he our mate Glenn's words always haunt me: "I wanna put 'em on a leash and take 'em for a walk"

Joe you'll see them again soon,it don't look like Julio's coming they make me think of puppies,that bounce and excitement,ahh mum and dad are here....DINNERTIME

Thanks buddy still a work in progress though,hard guy to please am I not

best

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Alexmenke92 said:


> On the tank, how did you guys do the rocks? Did you use foam / drylock / epoxy? Thanks!


Polystyrene carved to shape

rockflex to cover after a gentle warm with a heat gun

coloured epoxy as a base for pigmente rockdust which is applied when epoxy is wet

Rockoflex is a grounding product made by ent in germany,we are in England so I can't tell you about availability there. I've used this method for nearly 3 years now, seems to work well.If I get it right I can fool folks up close. It's wonderful putting one of these in someone's hand,the brain computes heavy,but they aren't,the holding hand goes up

Stu


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## Meefloaf

cheers for asking him for his method, i'd forgotten and will be nicking it soon enough


----------



## Alexmenke92

Yeah definitely. I'm looking to use a drylock-acrylic-sand method. I'm just trying to find what works best and is safest for frogs. I like the rockoflex but I can't find American shipping. 


Sent from my RM-893_nam_tmous_201 using Tapatalk


----------



## stu&shaz

Alex, I don't know if this product can be shipped to the states or whether it might be prohibitively expensive,you could try Marc at Dartfrog.co.uk I would think postage might rule it our for you as being viable,it's fairly heavy.
or dutchrana. I would say the products are proven and I have unsubstantiated hunches guys that make surf boards might know what they are. Question marks revolving safety of both epoxy and polystyrene(search for endochrine distrupters hereon DB0 have been raised. My experiences over a 3 year period have produced no issues,I know the methods have been used for longer,I've just adapted them to make rocks.But have a dig so you can make the best choices for you.
Good luck

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Love is:










Ahh the simple things 3 years trying to get me lass sorted with her favourite frog


SORTED

Stu


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## edaxflamma

Outstanding tanks sir! You have quite the talent.

Quick question for you:

What is that little guy being held up with toothpicks on the right hand side?


----------



## stu&shaz

Why thank you kinds sir.Margravia umbulata I believe,I hope it's spelling is correct.

Are you from Scotland by chance?...turn of phrase made me ask

many thanks 

Stu


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## edaxflamma

Thank you for the quick turn around!

Unfortunately no, I'm a hop skip across the pond in the US. 

I'm a big fan of your work. It's rare to find anything like this on our side of the drink. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on what comes out of your frog room. 

Keep up the good work!!


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## stu&shaz

Thankyou again Edax, the words are very kind. I really think we are rank beinners,I come here and am floored by the expertise in some fields. I'm hoping to get a little round up going shortly,we are less than a couple of weeks away,from our 3 year birthday as frog keepers,so I would like to grab enough time to go through everything,how the vivs are working out and some of our froggy friends for good measure.


Oh before I stop,a few words on said plant. As you can see it tends to grow as one long strand,it tip roots,naturally to aid climbing,that's probably the best place to grab cuttings from. Now mainly down to a good friend whom I swap plants with,and him taking cuttings off the swap,it seems the way to make this plants put out side shoots is to prune the tip off regularly. I guess logically this can be expected as she's heading upwards for light and it the path gets "blocked then she needs to find another route. This is exactly what I'm hoping for in this red head viv. you can't see it but the tip is removed,just behind the orchid. This now looks very feasable as I am seeing this in a couple of vivs where I also have this plant. This is exactly what is happening when they reach the top and I cut back the excess. I don't yet know if this is applicable to others of the genus,we also have sitensis(again spelling,larger leaves pink new growth). I think the one pictured is quite hard to find over there ,but worth working for,it's habit is so tight to the background and the white veining is beautiful. It's a favourite of mine

Thanks for the kindness ,it's genuinely appreciated,we love these little frogs,ha and they seem for some unknown reason to think we are ok too.

take care

Stu


----------



## Meefloaf

Had the pleasure of popping by Stu and Shaz's place yesterday and chatting frogs and being shown their frogs. I've been struggling with frog choice for my next viv (turns out i need another 20 vivs aha!) and some inspiration

the first thing i will say is, from the pics online you cannot get the shear size of the vivs. I have a 45 deep and that extra 15cm's doesnt seem like much but the 60 makes so much difference, the depth is breath taking. The rock work is simply stunning, there are two big chunks of rock which look like they've been ripped out of a forest floor, they are also crazy light and cold to the touch. The vivs are just stunning and well thought out for the guys living in them

the frogs are just beautiful and they all come up to say hello, even the Super Blue Aratus!

if i didnt have a 4hr journey ahead of me, i could've stayed there all day, he'd have had to drag me by the heels lol


----------



## stu&shaz

Lovely words Joe ,thanks bro. 

I think tank depth is much underrated,possibly because it is so difficult to portray by pictures. If one takes a rack as a whole ,then by adding 6" of depth it is barely noticed to us, lets face it loosing 6" off a room is no big deal. But our little mates get an extra quarter space in each and every viv,on the dimensions above. It's a massive difference for them to spend their lives in. Thanks for highlighting this Joe,I just can't convey it with this media,it's like seeing a really good culture for the first time,one needs to see it in the flesh to really know what is possibly.

You guys are always welcome here mate,good luck with the next project, it's a pleasure to see one of our newer frog Keepers with so much enthusiasm and that tries so hard and puts so much thought in to building out a great home for his animals

take care mate

Stu

don't time fly when one is talking frogs!!


----------



## Meefloaf

stu&shaz said:


> it's a pleasure to see one of our newer frog Keepers with so much enthusiasm and that tries so hard and puts so much thought in to building out a great home for his animals


you'll make me blush fella, thank you very much for the words, i usually think of it as me being mental lol

One of the best things i took away was Paula's enjoyment, she was checking frogs out, and really getting into it. She's supportive of my new found hobby and she drives me round the country to go to froggie things and never moans when driving me around cornwall so i can find that right piece of wood. And after the down heartening visit to somewhere earlier, i was worried. But after visiting your place she seemed to pick up and was excited to talk frogs, for Shaz it was Azzies, for Paula, i think she has her eye on "I really like those tiny red one's". So for that i thank you mate


----------



## stu&shaz

Ha i spotted that Joe,she kept going back to the red frog beach kids,you work up the viv,it will be ages before I have some to sell,so nowt to rush on but that will give you time to grab the confidence you need to keep pumillio. We are not talking short term mate,but our lady's enthusiasm is so important. I guess we are really talking more than a year,for me to get where I need but you'll learn much in that time and I honestly think be ready.
Keep your head down like you are doing you will get there. 

Joe,I refused to keep pums for so long ,you know what I'm like,I'll never measure up,but they are not so difficult,one just needs to get some graft down. I think you are blessed,you now know what morph of pum you want to keep.Be aware though there is no pressure here from moi!!!!!!!

While we are on these Joe,they are scarce here and need to be grafted at by folks together,we have a serious deficit of females in blighty ,no more need to be taken from the wild, we just need to care for them together and spread them about,it's almost a responsibility in my humble eyes. If the folks I know pull together with this frog then we have a chance,with some luck,to never need a WC outcross,for years and yeas and.......... 

It will always be a hobby issue for me this,the need to stick together and get our heads down with what we have,records need keeping and guys need to help each other. Time all this will take, will not be months, but we are not dealing with an infinite resource,just when we all realize this is beyond me. Just for once I have my deathly serious head on.

I wish Paula could have seen the babies that just came ootw a day or so before you guys stopped by ,but they are still being elusive,I'm doing detail in my learning curve by trying all methods to learn more,as is my way. So these will stay in viv and We'll watch and learn if they do,if they grow faster . I know I have options but I need a best practice for me.

Nowt rocket science Joe,just that need to do well for DA froshe,you are one of the few mate you got what needed to be done when a conservation body needed help, a guy that just keeps luecs and barely starting out,one of the 65

now ya can blush Joe
bastard ain't I

LMFAO I just covered our cooker in charcoal boiling exploits 'cause I took my eye off the ball writing this, Shaz has slapped me and I'll be setting up 3 monster spring cultures tomorrow.

Tell me you expected this and I've lost my touch ,but ponder it,despite the humour. If the lass needs small spotty red frogs,plus the serious side of what might be happening,well its worth pondering is it not

belucky mate

Stu 
oh ps ya know that little guy at the front,I showed you with a torch mum fed him at least 7 eggs today,you know who I mean a few hours later he had eaten the lot,beggers belief really


----------



## Meefloaf

ya bugger !

the more i explore frogs and the more i not only fall in love with them, whether it be the auratus and their crazy metallic paintjob or the boldness of the mysties. I'm also learning about the conservation issues surrounding certain species and in some cases, whilst available in the trade, getting a decent breeding program up and running can be problematic. I knew as soon as you told me of the nightmare you had with your red beach's Paula would want them aha. Pums are something i'll be looking into in the future i'd imagine

as for the egg muncher, he's certainly a hungry little guy eh ? Paula is still amazed at the size of a leuc tad, as am i, didnt realise they'd be that big. Mind you, somebody tends to bring on through massive frogs dont they eh


----------



## stu&shaz

Joe please forgive me going off somewhere else,thanks for all the kind words though,so many amazing facets to these frogs!!

Guys we got our first frogs 3years back on the 25th of Feb. So I thought some form of round up might be fun,to show y'all where we are at now.

Let's start with the engine room,ie dart grub. This I guess is our obsession. We always have more than we need,buy in hardly anything. Iso are in the main cultured in 3L tupperware containers,but some are bigger4.5L. We use edible subs,leaf litter rotten bits of wood and cardboard. Feed a tiny bit of fishflake and readybreak Don't forget the Ca,in the form of cuttle fish bonebroken in to bits,more detail can be found in this morass.

26 x 3L atop a rack










More in 'erm the bug room(my son's ex bedroom actually









Springtails,ye olde charcoal/yeast method,again Ca in the form of grated cuttle.










Oh note the 3 big tubs these are grow outs for new kids,or for qt










there's always more isn't there










We also have around 15 cultures under the racks in the frogroom of springtails,but hell I've shown enough to make the point I try to cover us if we get a crash.

Here's our 12 rack as it stands now,ya know it's sort of cool looking at this as I loaded it. We built the whole shebang,rack vivs,grew nearly all the plants,on a pretty tight budget made all the rocks and slowly but surely all the graft we put in is coming back to us










Some vivs all 50cmsq base top shelf 60cm high mid and bottom 40cm high

Superblue auratus 










Red frog beach pumillio sorry about these next two pics










I'll possibly come back to this one










Macheto










Mt Attachibakka










A grow out viv











back in a mo.


----------



## stu&shaz

A viv built to hopefully one day hold some more ue summersi










Ok this is a 400cmcube holding our pr os summersi,that unfortunately lay eggs with no embryos in










Young RFB Pumillio growout/proveout viv










Over to the other rack two vivs 60 cm sq base 40high holding a group of Panama special auratus and a 2:1 trio of Azeureus,the other vivs in this rack are all 60cm cubes

Azzie










Pan special










Leucamedas










and another










as you have just seen the redhead viv just built that's ya lot viv wise
I'll post this and come back with a few froggies for a while


----------



## rigel10

Your frogroom is gorgeous! I really like your vivs!


----------



## stu&shaz

Bruiser,subordinate red frog beach male



















Spot dominant RFB male,not shy but damn tricky to take a pic of so this is possibly the first of him I've shown 










One rfb kid ootw last week










Damn I've missed the Cemetery Basti viv,so before I forget again

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3674/12661692703_e5e2b1e092_z.jpg[ /img]

Tank reared panama special froglet

[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2830/12747233694_ba5bbca343_z.jpg

another ootw in the last few days










Mum Summersi











Thanks for the help guys

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Damn one space,please forgive:if at first one doesn't succeed,bloody try harder

The cem basti viv









take care

Stu

ps Rigle thank you !!


----------



## stu&shaz

Due to huge kindness from Richie at rainforest vivs and my mate Ben we have just taken these little guys on to add to our managerie. they are hopefully two pr of Ranitomeya summersi. We already keep this species as you all know,but our lass seems to lay eggs with no embryos in,so maybe one day we might get a chance to see what we've waited for so long now..

I'm beyond thrilled and really can't thank the two guys that helped us enough

Take a look at these beauts





































take care

Stu

Ps I should note it is no easy thing to get genuine UE frogs here and that is why the two guys above deserve special mention,they both went out of their way to help us with this thank you both


----------



## DartPlay

Hi Stu
I'm looking into building similar aluminum tubing rack. I'm at the design and measuring phase. I have some questions.
Did u make the depth and wide of each rack section the exact depth as your vivs? So the vivs, sit on the from and rear aluminum tubing? would it be bad to sit it inside of the tubing?
How much space between shelf level did you leave? 6"?

Dartplay


----------



## stu&shaz

DartPlay said:


> Hi Stu
> I'm looking into building similar aluminum tubing rack. I'm at the design and measuring phase. I have some questions.
> Did u make the depth and wide of each rack section the exact depth as your vivs? So the vivs, sit on the from and rear aluminum tubing? would it be bad to sit it inside of the tubing?
> How much space between shelf level did you leave? 6"?
> 
> Dartplay


Hi what's your name please ?

Buddy 12cm is the gap for lights we use,so that's just under 6". If you have the height in your room I can see no reason really to not go for 6" other than the lights being just a bit further away from the viv,if mounted on the floor above.

Now you guys I understand can get a wider variety of profiles than I could access here,which I suspect would affect load baring. I had to pop rivit angles to the square tube,so in my case it was important that the load was carried by the square tube front and back,this might be slightly different for you,but my personal preference would be for the viv to be carried by as much tube as possible. I would also factor in extra space height wise, so you could put something soft under the viv,just because glass is so unforgiving and this way one can alliviate and pressure points where one might cause the glass to crack.

Being in the UK I think it might be worth you knowing that Julio,George Gazonas and Jeremy Huff have all built these types of rack I believe. So it might be helpful to have a chat with them too as they are all your side of the pond.

I'll repeat something i've said many times before,building these racks was worth the effort for me,even though I had a somewhat harder route to accomplish my goals than many do:after 3 years of use,I'd do it all again without a second thought.

It's ironic you should post,I've been pondering squeezing in another small rack these last few days 

Good luck 

Stu


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## DartPlay

Hi Stu,

my name is Jeremy. i definitely will hit up others. i believe we have tubing that has flanges welded on so no pop rivets needed  . I will see if others also sit the vivs on the aluminum tubing. my concern would be that i am in earthquake country and i would prefer to sit the viv on the shelf inside the tubing but not sure how it'll hold up.

i can go pretty high with the rack, but i dont want to have to use a step stool to get to the upper vivs. so, i want to minimize the wasted space between each viv level.

i tell you, this hobby is a good money burner. But, i admit that with these little frogs, im enjoying every bit of burning money. 

thanks for all your input.


----------



## stu&shaz

Hi Jeremy, you are very welcome. Buddy our racks do involve using a step up for some chores,maximise space by putting shallower vivs lover,ie we use the 40(16") high vivs at the bottom. Although our 2' high vivs are at the top and quiet high(size of our room constrains me here) they are still workable. just chucking that out there really as making the extra height available seems to be appreciated by the frogs living up there. 

I think my words on something soft under the viv,are even more important given your circumstances and I'll add more to that bolt the rack securely to a wall. It's something I rehash often anyway,as the consequences of a rack going over are so dire it doesn't bare thinking about. 

This isn't the cheepest hobby for sure,but one can make alot of savings I think with the DIY attitude,building vivs racks and growing alot of plants has helped us no end, but I'm with you what our frogs have given us has made it all worth it x10. 

good luck with the build

many thanks

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Well it's taken a long long time,but we are finally a stone's throw from our very first azzies morphing,as before they have been fed a wide variety of live wild grub and hunt very well just like the atachibakka kids do so hopefully these will get off to a flyer. 



















I haven't got pictures yet,but the hold back atachis have almost reached the 2 year mark. I would say our efforts to achieve WC size have fallen just short,but I show no quarter to myself,always trying to be better is the mantra. One female in particular is very close the two boys again not far short of their father another female about 1cm down on mum. It's been a really worth while experience for us,a solid foundation of a method to build on and strive for more. Hopefully we can keep honing our efforts.

Our new UE summersi are out of QT and in viv they have been a bit shy for a while,naturally I've worried,but it seems all are well,I just need this one now,desparate for these to breed and finally crack it after all the time with our other pair breeding but never an embryo in the eggs,one can see why. My hopes are high though,we have calling and I'm fairly sure I got a tiny glimpse of courtship yesterday

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Now we go right back to dec 2012,the one frog you guys don't know about and man what a ride they have been,up and down like a rollercoaster. We bought some histrionica red head,from the dendroworks team of Marcus and Graham CB by them selves,these stem from an old line in europe.

3 little guys came back with us,we watched them for a couple of months ie qt them put them into viv. The viv had been built way way back seeded with the usual high number of iso and all was ready.So in they went,here are a couple of snaps taken that day





Withing two days of going into viv one had a massive fit and died Shaz watched it happen but could do nothing.You can imagine all the things that went through my mind the questions one asks one self about were we ready,what more could I have done in preparation the guilt at loosing something so special. It's conceivable that the little guy had so much food especially iso that he eat just too much,I didn't have an autopsy done,my dad died withing day,sometimes it's just life bunging curve balls at ya and all one can do is get ya head down and weather the storm.

But a special word on dendroworks, who gave us this wonderful chance to keep large oophaga. I spoke to Graham, we talked about removing some subs,just in case and he simply said head up we'll replace it. He had no cause to,this was down to us,but true to his word he did,thank you both guys,for that and more. 

So our two little guys grew up....phew around may/june last year Drake our male started calling,we crossed all digits for JT ,massive good fortune a female wow we had a pair

I'll back track here to the viv,it was always designed for these frogs,but I fluked some of it on a monstrous scale,the whole background is basically rocks,I had no idea that when watching the hardstone video of wild redeads that they would be found on a rocky slope. I designed in two film cans where they could lay eggs and we could see everything and finally I put a cracking water holding brom right up front so we could see little tads being raised.



note the cans set in,RHS,maybe they feel secure using these because of the vertical surface?



To my amazement around mid summer JT(it;s written on her side) laid her first eggs,yup exactly where I wanted,hell I couldn't believe it it gets better they are fertile



But I guess young frogs learn some of this as they go,maybe not all instinct,she made a complete hash of it,twice she dragged all the eggs out of the can and they were strewn over the fake tree,and stubborn as ya like I used all my highly advanced egg handling skills and put them back righted embryos the whole shebang.

remarkably on little guy hatched


I was in the frog room all day by a stroke of luck so eagerly awaited transport,I nipped out for half an hour and my tad was gone,I checked JT,no sign there,bugger the silly sod's knocked it on the floor,I searched no tad,hey ho there will be more I told myself sadly.

Two weeks or so later I'm dong my chores filling broms bla bla,I spot movement,sure enough exactly as planned to my complete disbelief is the tad,not only that but she's feeding and boy don't they feed










and later look like this



finally he left the water,good legs and once again JT nearly messed it all up. I was about to pull him when she came stomping round the brom,knocked himclean of the leaf,where upon he bounced off some wood and lay on his back motionless on the floor...gutted



I ran down washed hands put on gloves and scoped him up,somewhat dazed but thankfully ok he started life in his new little tub...phew!!

Here's JT all grown up

,I think she just messes with me





TBC


----------



## boombotty

Awesome! I've been wondering when you were going to show them in the tank you built for them. Nice you got to watch it develop. I have my first 2 Redhead tads in the water right now, and they are both right up front in a brom, so I get to see them morph. Good luck with them and hope they bring you many more  I'm anxious to see the variability in the offspring as well.


----------



## stu&shaz

Basically things went from strength to strength,she got better at doing things used the cans as primary laying sites but her clumseyness continued. We lost two tads she fed them so many eggs and I obviously with hindsight didn't flush the broms well enough,so my bad really. But the joy of her choosing some depo sites that we can see into means we have become able to learn with her. 

Transport and as above her name



Fast forward a bit:nice tad up front...again brom leaf starting to yellow,ahh he's be out before that dies....WRONG!! I'm doing my rounds and watch in horror as I fill the brom the leaf collapses,dumping little tad at the bottom of the viv. I pop it back in a film can strap it to the brom and wait for her to feed,she doesn't. So we try and he does feed,game on little chance of hope,but some right!!

we get him here









and then to my amazement here









He comes ootw starts feeding and grows up to be this the most stunning little fella,affectionately known as brom leaf(good with names us)











Ok I'm me I worry ,I know have a real handle on what a large oophaga does when breeding it's not something I read about I'm seeing it. JT lays almost every time two clutches,time after time she times it...how?... so she is carrying on the day or there abouts the last lot morph. So I can see a perfect storm of events coming up,I pull some eggs and hatch them,I have to feed until the basti kids morph,them I'm going to see if mum basti will take over.

I mananage to get two kids started,one is strong as anything,I can still see him taring to get into the foster eggs,he's away,the second ok ,but no where near as strong,one little basti pops front legs,I swap,mum feeds off we go,the second waits and is now already smaller but all goes well and things are repeated.

I pull both and again remarkably all is well. This picture is the initially strong,he's called Moon,he came ootw smaller than he should have been,I remember saying to Shaz,he has to feed tomorrow or that's it










Ha but this little guy always was a fighter,he did feed and his growth rate has been astounding he is our first to call and the biggest frog we have ironically a boy,always had it the other way round










My concerns over JT continued she again laid two clutches and at the end of these she was going to take a break,her kids morphed she laid,I threw them out,I cut the food cut the misting right back,Drake stopped calling so much,but she laid another small clutch,I binned them again,she stopped and had a good rest....fantastic.

But what I haven't told you is of the last lot she actually reared those two clutches contained 17 eggs if I remembered correctly,I'd actually pulled one whole clutch. Now it's highly likely that she wouldn't feed all anyway,but I wanted to try something and this way she couldn't over do it. I'd read Rob melancoms post...see robbstrer .com..alternatives for obligates,I've thought deeply about ethics and such of hand rearing oophaga,so we tried.

I managed to get 3 tadpoles going,they grew slowly far to slow,I couldn't keep the water right I kept trying and trying,but just couldn't get it right,all but a glimmer of hope was left. The siblings were ootw my hand reared way way behind. But they were still alive I got my head down and dug in,but it was hard,hope was really gone,they would have sls or such if I got even that far,but they still had a chance.

One day a couple of weeks or so back I stood their watching this little tad dance for me as I tried to feed him some auratus eggs,



















spotted the front leg bumps and the water had changed,the hope started to return and that brings us pretty much up to date 



















The first two are ootw and now feeding on mels,their size is right all is well the third will be out in days and also looking good. I don't really know why this has worked for us,Rob M's words are more sophisticated than mine and explain the method better than I can,it's all his credit and I have massive thanks for his writing 
This might still all go wrong,my intention is to keep them and see if there is any fallout. ie See if they can breed

So I'll finish with a bit more eye candy,from one utterly bewildered frog keeper,who is just asking himself how? at the moment



















take care

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

boombotty said:


> Awesome! I've been wondering when you were going to show them in the tank you built for them. Nice you got to watch it develop. I have my first 2 Redhead tads in the water right now, and they are both right up front in a brom, so I get to see them morph. Good luck with them and hope they bring you many more  I'm anxious to see the variability in the offspring as well.


More luck than I could ever dream of Scott or deserve!! This is the old viv,I still have the new one uninhabited,waiting for our own kids. The variability in our offspring is huge Scott and although it's early yet I am pondering other thoughts related to pattern such as growth rates. It's a wonderful thing being able to see,may you have all the joy and none of the downers with them,but that's livestock wouldn't have it any other way.
Mate I'm very pushed for time at the moment,I'd love to see more of what you are doing with them,do you have a thread here?

take care

Stu


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## stu&shaz

I have a few more minutes so:























































seeya

Stu


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## boombotty

stu&shaz said:


> More luck than I could ever dream of Scott or deserve!! This is the old viv,I still have the new one uninhabited,waiting for our own kids. The variability in our offspring is huge Scott and although it's early yet I am pondering other thoughts related to pattern such as growth rates. It's a wonderful thing being able to see,may you have all the joy and none of the downers with them,but that's livestock wouldn't have it any other way.
> Mate I'm very pushed for time at the moment,I'd love to see more of what you are doing with them,do you have a thread here?
> 
> take care
> 
> Stu


Hey Stu,
I don't have a thread, but this is the viv I have them in. It is a 36x18x36 Exo with lights from Todd at LYR, Grow&Glow and Mega Jungle Dawns staggered from dawn til dusk. I have a 12%UV Arcadia I give them for just a little every few days. This is from when it was first planted, but I like to give them plenty of broms to lay, deposit, and sleep in. Hard to tell, but I used lots of cork tubes and it has lots of depth. These are bad pics taken with an iphone.


----------



## rigel10

It is always a pleasure to visit your thread. I always find here nice surprises, like these beautiful red head. Congrats!


----------



## stu&shaz

Thank you Rigel, We are really lucky to have been so fortunate, to have a pair that so obviously like each other and then to have all this happen has been a wonderful experience. To actually watch a pair grow up,come of age and then learn with them,has really been mindblowing,mind I'd say that about all our other frogs too,the only difference really being how much of the parental care we have actually been able to see this time,I don't see nearlly enough of what our pums do.

Scott it's a fine viv mate,thank you so much for posting the picture. Really interesting notes on lighting. We are using an LED strip cobbled up by ourselves,if I recollect 1200lumen/M 6500kelvin and an arcadia D3 6% 24watt T5. This viv sits beside our group of RFB(red frog beach),both vivs measuring 60cm high with a 50cm sq base(say around 2' high 20" base),the lighting is basically split between them,so not very bright at all really. The arcadia comes on for a few hours in the middle of the day. Scott I'm thinking about changing up to 12% to be honest as I don't ever see basking per say. But I've also got that monkey on my back saying "all is well leave things alone".

Good luck with those tads Scott, how are you intending to rear them,in viv?
What I've noted already is they seem to grow in spurts it seems to coincide with feeding, with work and all I haven't yet pinned down exactly how many times they get fed,it's incredibly difficult as they get older,they eat the eggs so fast so one can miss a clutch completely,just a fat tad with a full belly.

Speaking of patterns watching the colours develop is amazing,not only do you have yellow coming through the dark markings but all ours start bronze which gradually pulls beck to yellow,it's fascinating. If you look closely at the froglet just morphed in the film can,he's ootw by hours,you can just see where more yellow will come through. Ours don't yet carry much red around the head,although I'm sure more is becoming apparent on drake,I'm not completely convinced there though 

While talking about these frogs here I must also thank one of your number,whom spent masses of time showing us how he kept large oophaga how he laid out a viv,all manner of things,I just can't articulate my gratitude to him and others here,whom have helped us. 

Scott could I ask for a picture of your frogs please as well,

good luck mate

Stu


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## boombotty

Hey Stu,
I had 6% Arcadia bulbs on my vivs, which are all 36" tall, and just switched over to the 12%. I feel like these will penetrate the mesh better, but I am going to cut down exposure time quite a bit for awhile with it being quite a bit stronger.

Not sure how I am going to rear yet. With my Sylvatica, I pull them as soon as they come out of the water and have never lost one. There is plenty of room in the Redhead viv, so I might let them hang out longer.

Here are a couple bad iphone pics. They are a little more red than what they are showing up in the pics.

Male


Female


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## stu&shaz

boombotty said:


> Hey Stu,
> I had 6% Arcadia bulbs on my vivs, which are all 36" tall, and just switched over to the 12%. I feel like these will penetrate the mesh better, but I am going to cut down exposure time quite a bit for awhile with it being quite a bit stronger.
> 
> Not sure how I am going to rear yet. With my Sylvatica, I pull them as soon as they come out of the water and have never lost one. There is plenty of room in the Redhead viv, so I might let them hang out longer.
> 
> Here are a couple bad iphone pics. They are a little more red than what they are showing up in the pics.
> 
> Male
> 
> 
> Female



Cor ok I just want them...now

Seriously Scott they are stunning,I'd love to see your kids now too, even moreso,when you get there of course,it's just they have to come ootw now,it's no longer an option. Scott those markings are incredible,I've only seen two sets of red heads your side of the pond like that and none here with remotely as much red.

Pulling is working for me too,I had one incident where I was waiting for a froglet to morph,and studying the viv looking for him.I spotted movement bottom left,went to wash hands grab gloves came back and found Drake standing on the little fellas head. now I don't know if ,this was a deliberate act or just simply one of those things,but it's worth noting for you. I've heard of much worse elsewhere.

Mate we talked as I came into this,i know exactly where I stand 3 1/2 years in one learns a bit,but the big picture is you'll have forgotten more than I know and you are so right that's a big ol viv,but if I said nowt,I'd kick myself.

Scott the further I go the more I consider all these little darts as individuals,sometimes a pair is best sometimes a group,it doesn't seem to matter what species,it seems I have to learn whom I'm keeping and if those particular guys get on. How they react toward little ones in viv aswell I've got a group of pums mentioned above 2 male 2 female all is love and peace,I'm wading my way through catching some damn big kids at the mo and not one sign of aggression,pulled 5 so far and still more to grab plus their younger siblings(it was getting a bit crushed in there),but the wrong two males together and we both know where that leads. There doesn't seem any rhyme or reason to it

The only thing I'm sure on is the more I learn the less I know!!

Just the best for them mate and thanks so much for the input and pictures

Stunning

Stu


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## boombotty

I can't wait to see the kids either  Seems like all who breed these get great variability out of the offspring. Looks like you have as well, they are some great looking frogs.

It seems like everything is about trial and error. Every frog has it's own personality, so what works for some with keeping a group, might not work for others.

On another note, since switching my Arcadia from 6% to 12%, I have seen an increase of the frogs "basking". I saw where Grahm (sp) has noticed a color change in the red in his, I'll be sure to take pics from day to day so I can compare the color in mine from UV exposure.

I hope you have continued luck with yours.


----------



## stu&shaz

Thanks again for the reply Scott!!

The UVB/basking is an interesting observation,we build our "euro vivs" with optiwhite for the back top,then mesh,then normal 4mm glass for the front. I figured if the frogs want uvb they will find it,alternatively they can go about their lives fairly normally without exposure if needed.Essentially I'm exploring 3 levels of exposure.With a budget as tight as ours I can't really run to meters at this time so can only observe behaviour,and work from there

As a side note,I speak to the products manager at Arcadia,John, often . He has been very kind to us and given much to think on plus his time,just a lovely guy. He has no qualms about 12% over darts. 

As before we have been incredibly lucky,it's hard to change what is just working for us,by the same token,there is and always will be a desire to do better,by our frogs,so I must investigate this further. Oh it's Graham by the way.

Just thanks mate,for the stunning viv and frog pictures the wishes,reciprocated and the revisit to UVB. This last observation is important to me as although I couldn't ask for more,I'm always gonna

Damn I wish I wasn't always dashing off when I post,but one has to cram things in, right!!

thank you Scott

Stu


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## stu&shaz

Lovelyur first azzie kids are leaving the water and the 3rd and final hand reared red head is also out. All looks well, size possibly just bigger than the last two, he's moving and standing well and has already explored his rearing tub.

one utterly bewildered frog keeper

best
Stu


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## Frog pool13

What a truly great thread you have going! Best of luck with all your frogs, and please continue to share your experiences!


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## nburns

Thank you for taking the time to document and share all of this with us. Your craftsmanship and eye for viv design and layout is amazing. I have truly enjoyed reading through this thread over that last couple days, like a good book.


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## stu&shaz

Frog pool13 said:


> What a truly great thread you have going! Best of luck with all your frogs, and please continue to share your experiences!


Thanks so much,my apologies for the slow reply!!

don't worry I think there will be a few more updates still to come,for sure you'll hear the shouts of joy over there when we get some summersi kids,note the when not if

take care

Stu


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## stu&shaz

nburns said:


> Thank you for taking the time to document and share all of this with us. Your craftsmanship and eye for viv design and layout is amazing. I have truly enjoyed reading through this thread over that last couple days, like a good book.


Hi Nate,again an apology for the slow response. Thanks for the lovely kind words Nate. I do love the fact that there are so many facets to this hobby,not only do we have the frogs' care ,but also the chance to get dirty and try our best to craft a slice of habitat.

I'm glad you have enjoyed reading our, little story. It's a wonderful hobby to be part of,I adore the fact that so many try with what they have,to help others.

Our 3 new redheads all seem fine,I'm still bewildered by them and our little azzies also are good. We have a pethera of tads in the water now and have completely finished setting/hatching the species that have bred for us. just the oophaga breeding and one day soon maybe those rani

take care Nate and thanks for the words,very kind

best

Stu


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## Enlightened Rogue

Stu, those Summersi are beautiful.
Just wondering are you using any pigment enhancements?
Very nice


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## stu&shaz

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Stu, those Summersi are beautiful.
> Just wondering are you using any pigment enhancements?
> Very nice


 Hi John. all credit goes to Mark and Elaine Pepper,at UE for the summersi,man I've wanted that chance for so long,so get some more genuine UE frogs,I'm soooo lucky and sooo pleased with them.

John we use,all repashy vits,so Ca plus as base everyday dusting(I say every day,but naturally we don't feed adults each day) Superpig,not often say once each 2 weeks,Vit A once every two weeks. We also stole the bug burger laced with 5% superpig,idea from you guys,which we use as a feeding station,I think that this might have notched up the red a bit in the batch of RFB kids I've just pulled. Shortly I'm going to explore naturose( I have a couple of tactics there an idea from a friend and as a feeder" dust"), another caroteniod that is actually soluble,but I can't go further on that yet John. Finally there is the intangible factor of wild grub and it's effect on colour,predominantly aphids John,but also a wild springtail,and other beasties like moth flies,feature in our frogs diet.

Naturally I'll report back as I go,but it's all too early yet

Oh John,slightly left field but worth a note,I think our frogs colour looks good,I'm not unhappy with it(ok I'll hold my hands up I want more red on the redheads,but I suspect genetics are a big player here),always searching for better though,ain't we all

But I think mention should be made of camera techniques possibly invigorating colour,or for sure the other way around. I'm no real photographer John,I've got some nice gear,but not top drawer pro stuff. So I'm plodding around gradually working out how I can get better pictures out there,with the tools I have available. Where I'm at now is higher f values...at least f11 and very slow shutter speeds ,always a tripod is involved. This technique seems to give me more depth/saturation with the colours. All pics are as they come off the camera though,no processing It's cool that our frogs will oft just sit and allow this,sure one needs patience,but hell it's cool spending time with them anyway,that's what all this is about,being with them just watching. I thinks it's worthy of mentioning though, as obviously,this might effect what you have seen and why you asked 

good luck mate hope this helps

best

Stu


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## stu&shaz

young azzie









the three hand reared histos



























some of our red frog beach kids





































take care

Stu


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## rigel10

These your frogs are gorgeous! Lovely the pattern of the histos! Compliments


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## stu&shaz

Frog pool13 said:


> What a truly great thread you have going! Best of luck with all your frogs, and please continue to share your experiences!


Humble apologies for directing you to what you so obviously have already read kiddo,I have been working very hard and simply can't keep up with everything,naturally froggies come first,then as I catch up come the replies to posts,buddy can I ask for your name please?

Thanks for the kind words,as I get time of course we will share both good and bad as best we can. 

many thanks

Stu


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## stu&shaz

rigel10 said:


> These your frogs are gorgeous! Lovely the pattern of the histos! Compliments


Rigel thanks man,how the bronze fade to yellow is very special,I have little to be sure on yet as to how they will turn out as adults,just hunches,more reared and more time,will make this easier,
always learning mate!!

John,despite my earlier post on picture taking techniques,I should point out that a really good friend pointed out exactly what Shaz said to me. The red frog beach kids,are not the vibrant red in my pictures that they are on the flesh(I know the light was messing with me,but feel I didn't articulate all this very well). I think this is worthy of note given your earlier question and my reply,for sure they vary and for sure your question revolved around the Summersi. I'm still just a novice bro,frogs or camera,it matters not,all is a work in progress,frankly I love that!! But by the same token despite my personal failings I try to be honest,if I have made a mistake that is mine, so I wanted to try and be clearer for you.

kind regards both

Stu


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## Enlightened Rogue

Thank you Stu.
Sometimes it`s hard to get those colors to show true.


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## stu&shaz

True words John and I suppose it's great that my pictures haven't made the frogs look more vibrant in the flesh ,but less so. Leastways I'm happier that way,I'm so thrilled with these latest batches of RFB kids I can't put it into words. I'd take a guess that the light was bouncing off the moist surface of the frogs in some cases and that reflection,made the RFB in particular look paler,just a hunch mind!!

So yup if there is anything in our methods listed above that is of use John steal away. 

take care

Stu


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## stu&shaz

I'm really sad to report the loss of one of our hand reared red heads,there are many takes on why this happened. For me I think I could have done better. I think this might have been down to supression. Naturally with this particular set of circumstances,getting this far is already special,but forgive me for wanting all 3,they are special to me,the other two are robust snd growing well,yes I realise I might loose all,there is no cirtanty but the note to self of will try harder is no bad thing.

But i'm a dart keeper I'm passionate,not educated not clever,but damn we love 'em,i'm getting on I guess and with that comes the knowledge that some cool stuff is always around the corner.

Shaz and I ahave wanted to breed Summersi and kept a pr for say 2 years,my lass lays eggs without embryos,,over and over! But she and her fella are my mates,they teach me and now come to me,so they are here for the duration. 
You guys saw our new UE Summersi and on Monday to my complete joy they laid for us. Look i was flapping so i've posted about it elsewhere here,but all is well.......so far

This is being written by one seriously bewildered and happy frogger. We have six Summersi eggs all fertile developing,I might not get there this time,it's ok they are early eggs and things take time,by the same token,my pair taught me how to breed we have stuck by them for two years,they got us here,the new guys will complete our journey,I know know this ,amaybe we'll wait for another year and just maybe it will be these eggs,but hey who cares.

It's just so simple

We WILL get there

Dart keeping...up and dawn like a roller coaster, complete sadness, to untold joy, mistakes to keep and learn from,but always that steamroller moving forwards, dragging a little guy and his lass along for the ride.

I might catch my breath soon and nail some pics,just got a couple of new little rfb kids,some azzies, some superblues, some leucs, some Atachis bastis just laid, so did the redheads,but there should be kids? and rani summersi 

So I'll leave with the usual

bring it the hell on

Stu


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## Enlightened Rogue

Sorry about your loss Stu.
It`s never easy.
Good luck with the Summersi!


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## stu&shaz

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Sorry about your loss Stu.
> It`s never easy.
> Good luck with the Summersi!


It's really hard John I feel these guys. 

but life marches forwards,did you note the ? in my last post?

thanks for the wishes,I'll take all I can get.

what follows is just a snapshot of today

Stu


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## stu&shaz

Summersi eggs 5 days in:










Histrionica red head two clutches laid a few days apart










obviously a few days older










Now I've already told you JT lays and as the eggs develop she has timed everything so the guys she is feeding are about to exit the water,I thought maybe something had gone astray this time:whistling2:

WRONG:lol2:










Red frog beach eggs










close to morphing:

Atachibakka(tinc)










superblue(auratus)










leuc









Azzie










young RFB kid ha ha he's my mate cracking little guy










I got a few mins today to play snapperama hope you enjoy

best

Stu


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## hypostatic

stu&shaz said:


>


Is this a red head froglet?


----------



## stu&shaz

hypostatic said:


> Is this a red head froglet?


Dan, yup you have it!! Now read back a bit,you expressed a lot of interest in artificial rearing of oophaga,helped me as much as you could,ran ideas an all by me,thanks for tha!! .So I think what proceeds this might be of interest!!

I would say the kid pictured is a couple of days ootw,maybe more Jt has it down i follow her lead, the viv provides a lot of cover ,I was looking for this little fella but couldn't see it,there may well be more, actually there should be,but i'm unsure on drake at this time.

take care 

Stu


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## hypostatic

Oh I was actually helpful? haha that's always nice to hear!

Interesting, it seems like these guys grow into their spots? I don't think the pictures I've seen of adults had spots that big.


----------



## stu&shaz

hypostatic said:


> Oh I was actually helpful? haha that's always nice to hear!
> 
> Interesting, it seems like these guys grow into their spots? I don't think the pictures I've seen of adults had spots that big.


It's more than that Dan,first up one has a colour shift from bronze to yellow,second the pale markings come through the dark and visa versa study the kid pictures and you'll spot what i'm talking about.

Now, where Red,or the lack thereof fits in,I'm unsure.I am sure it's not a CB issue ,and would delve into genetics as a major factor,but then, I don't think that is the whole story either . I also suspect colour enhancers might not make a huge difference as I'm using some ,ie superpig . I'm yet to produce a really read headed youngster,some stunners oh hell yeah,but that classic red head has so far evaded me

best

Stu


----------



## hypostatic

Oh was it this thread that I posted trying to help with the artificial feeding? I looked through the thread, and I don think I posted here before. I would definitely remember this: 



stu&shaz said:


> rare import


Is that a plastic frog? haha


----------



## hypostatic

stu&shaz said:


> It's more than that Dan,first up one has a colour shift from bronze to yellow,second the pale markings come through the dark and visa versa study the kid pictures and you'll spot what i'm talking about.
> 
> Now, where Red,or the lack thereof fits in,I'm unsure.I am sure it's not a CB issue ,and would delve into genetics as a major factor,but then, I don't think that is the whole story either . I also suspect colour enhancers might not make a huge difference as I'm using some ,ie superpig . I'm yet to produce a really read headed youngster,some stunners oh hell yeah,but that classic red head has so far evaded me
> 
> best
> 
> Stu


Hmmm, yes, those offspring sure are interesting.

From seeing the pictures, I wouldn't expect the offspring to exhibit the "classic" redhead coloration until they were more mature. Do the froglets exhibit that "classic" coloration from the get-go in the wild?

Oh also, I was wondering, do you have any running water features in your histo vivs? I think most of the videos I've seen of these guys in the wild had them near a stream or running water.


----------



## stu&shaz

hypostatic said:


> Hmmm, yes, those offspring sure are interesting.
> 
> From seeing the pictures, I wouldn't expect the offspring to exhibit the "classic" redhead coloration until they were more mature. Do the froglets exhibit that "classic" coloration from the get-go in the wild?
> 
> Oh also, I was wondering, do you have any running water features in your histo vivs? I think most of the videos I've seen of these guys in the wild had them near a stream or running water.


Dan, i'm really unsure on the red,I think it's later to develop,but Scot's above carry more red than mine(ie his breeders) so he may well know more than I. You'll see in the link at the bottom that some wild kids definitely do not show red in their early stages of life,but I'm wary of making a sweeping statement on a morph that varies so much pattern wise. There are traces of red on some of our frogs as the young mature the bronze on the head seems to stay longer,I wonder whether that is the precursor to red. We have one that may well develop that classic look. So all in all it's really too early for me to be completely sure. Oh Cris K showed some pictures a good while back of a young frog showing a lot of red,but I can't remember how old it was,just that it was stunning 

No I have no running water in any of my dart vivs. Buddy i'm new to all this really these are our first pair of large oophaga,so despite our good fortune to be breeding and also being able to share various methods that seem to be working with you guys,I don't think of myself as anything other than a guy learning the ropes. But for me anyway I don't think running water is really necessary. For me a damn good jungle gym, ample areas for deposition of tads, roosting sites,that classic multi story structured viv and good microfauna population(loads of LL) are all much higher on my personal list. I also utilize UVB and different types of glass to try and create areas/zones if you like ,where they can self regulate or avoid if they want. Following that I'm trying to achieve a fairly dry viv,with high humidity 

Actually Dan for the small redhead,where they live seems to be very arid,I've posted about this before I think.I was utterly bewildered seeing cacti growing in one of the few insitu "wild footage" videos I've seen. Mate here is a link to said video,just scroll down a bit. This may well mean they are often found close to streams I guess,but again I'm unsure and seem to be doing really well with the parameters we have worked too

Colombia 2012

Given what I've been told by guys that have been to Colombia and have seen these frogs,it seems the breeding season is quite short. So one of the biggest priorities has been making sure the pair don't do too much,to the extent I have actually thrown away eggs in my efforts to stop breeding,while drying them down. It's almost the only way as JT,as mentioned above, is prempting tads morphing out with her laying,and I really don't want to cut back filling broms,with tads just about to morphout. Basically the breeders are my priority I want them to have the best I can do and not breed themselves into the ground. Let's face it we have had some serious good fortune already, more than our fair share of little ones kicking about in just one year of them actually being mature. So I'm not going to be greedy, a couple of rounds and stop 'em is the mantra at this time

best
Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

hypostatic said:


> Oh was it this thread that I posted trying to help with the artificial feeding? I looked through the thread, and I don think I posted here before. I would definitely remember this:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a plastic frog? haha


Sorry Dan I missed this post,and yes you have it oophaga plasticus. Ahh mate I'm a fun loving guy,so I though some folks might enjoy that,but 'erm youhave no idea how many it fooled. ever now and then I get a PM,both here(UK) and from you guys,asking how they are doing and if they are breeding Dan a close friend bought them,he was pulling my leg because it took us so long to actually buy our first frogs,but I just had to run with it No we talked about the oophaga diet elsewhere.

speaking of which 2 hand reared red heads a few days back



















Two older kids


















Young azzies

just ootw









Older


















Atachibakka




















Superblue Auratus









Leuc










best 

Stu


----------



## ryubui

I enjoyed this. Thankyou for posting.


----------



## stu&shaz

ryubui said:


> I enjoyed this. Thankyou for posting.


You are very welcome!! 
best

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

We have some long term goals,one is to breed Ranitomeya summersi,there is a thread elsewhere but for now a little picture of the first to actually get to land,sorry for the double post,this one is bloody hard won so I'm thrilled



We also want to set up some "as unrelated as we can" breeding groups/maybe pairs, of the two pumillio we keep.They are the cemetery morph and red frog beach from bastimentos. This little tiny thing is special because we also bred his dad and heralds the first ootw of our second group of cems.




We grabbed a few RFB kids from the parental viv recently. All of these are being held while we prove out males or females. I didn't realize how long these things take. But when one goes for something long term,the days(even years) drift by and the result becomes the bit that sticks in ones mind. With the RFB all the early kids appear male,so shorty another group will be tried and we'll keep going until we get there. 

take care

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

why does life kick ya,when you're happy.

I lost the little summersi morphling last night guys,he went up to roost an' all

First clutch I guess it just wasn't meant to be, I'm gutted !!

Anyway we've been trying for years and have more to follow,so hopefully will do better next time or the time after that or...

take care

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

This is a hobby that sometimes brings sadness,see above,but the next day there is always something special sorry horrible pics just quick snaps until thy know me,but that is already underway!!

The speed they get who brings food amazes me on such tiny things,not there yet,but one came to see me then spooked,but just enough time to grab these superblurry snaps our two new RFB kids if you are lucky I might show the older ones soon.

For Andrea:


















take care

Stu


----------



## Engeli

They look fantastic! I'm very happy for you about your offspring success 
Thank you for sharing the pictures!

Andrea


----------



## Slengteng

Just stumbled over here! This thread is pure awesomeness, you rock completely! I am just at september 2011 but i will catch up! 😁 Take care! Regards Manuel


----------



## stu&shaz

Engeli said:


> They look fantastic! I'm very happy for you about your offspring success
> Thank you for sharing the pictures!
> 
> Andrea


There might be more thank you so much!!

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Slengteng said:


> Just stumbled over here! This thread is pure awesomeness, you rock completely! I am just at september 2011 but i will catch up! 😁 Take care! Regards Manuel


It's a drummer thang Manuel,we can't help but rock

Ahh mate thanks, you are so kind, please forgive the humour!!.

Fortunately as the collection gets bigger I have less time to post ,so you should catch up with me fairly soon,2011 seems so long ago,and like yesterday at the same time

thanks for the kind words

Stu


----------



## Slengteng

Just a awesome story to start from 0 to 100 like you did, i do not even want to imagine how hard this was at the beginning and it still is to take care off everything!! You have my full respect! 

Did you get your second generation of the red heads breeding already or did i may miss something!?


----------



## stu&shaz

Our RFB red frog beach pumillio project is slowly gathering momentum. This is a slow long road,with everything being held until such time as we are happy we have the frogs of the right sex and as unrelated as we can get to fullfill what we are trying to achieve. Basically the goal is to fix them here,and also try to help friends. The import of this frog to UK was sureal in it's male high nature.

Here are some others you haven't seen before as young adults. As with the ones shown sometime back to say we are thrilled is a massive understatement,I might just say sod it and keep them all


what about those back legs huh,and again later




































seeya

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Slengteng said:


> Just a awesome story to start from 0 to 100 like you did, i do not even want to imagine how hard this was at the beginning and it still is to take care off everything!! You have my full respect!
> 
> Did you get your second generation of the red heads breeding already or did i may miss something!?


No not yet Manuel,i'm just biding my time at the moment. the group of 5 has at least two males in,they must be closing on a year now. I'm actually keepeing them in a viv where it should be quite hard for them to breed,so they can grow and reach maturity without the added complication of making kids. I know it's madness in some ways,but that slow approach is what's working for us by and large,so I'll be the tortoise and watch the hares drift by.

This has never really been hard buddy,apart from when we loose a frog,which kills us both. This was dwelt upon and mused for a long time. We knew it would be absorbing and time consuming way before we had frogs. I think we cultured ff for 18 months as an example,huge quantities I might add. 

Although I joke alot and lark around there is a very serious side to how we try to keep our animals and try to care for them. Plus amazing guys like Ed here(US) like Glenn in canada ahh mate all over(too many to thank all),share their thoughts and time with us, help us, and ask for nothing. All these folks have helped us get here,which in the big scheme is a sound beginning and little more. But that sound base and massive help,I repeat from guys that ask for nothing back,is why I'm able to post these pictures. Shaz and I graft for all this Manuel sure,but those guys must be given credit due to them. They know who they are,it's incredibly important to me they know how much is owed and how much easier all this has been for us,because of them.

Ha I steal their knowledge and try and give back a bit here in england,it's a pale shadow but when one is helped SO MUCH it's the least one can do
seeya

Stu


----------



## jausi

I haven't check this web site in a while!!!!, but every time that I do you always leave me speachless, amazing job with those frogs


----------



## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> I haven't check this web site in a while!!!!, but every time that I do you always leave me speachless, amazing job with those frogs


Ahh mate many thanks kiddo...there's always more isn't there


We have been waiting for these a good while now,already affectionately known as the humbugs,and another very special frog we are thrilled to have here,actually from our very first wish list all that time back. Slowly settling in to the QT tub,well I say slowly they hit land forgot about me and started hammering the springtails,just wonderful to watch...here ya go :





































OOOOOOOOO
Dad summersi running around with a good load of tads,they are still very elusive,it's getting there but still shy,so we don't see them that much.I've constantly tried to get a pic today,but he's not having it,lets hope he drops them off ok,looks to be 4 or 5. 

take care all

Stu


----------



## jausi

SOoooo JEloussssssssssssss!!!!!, beautiful frogs man


----------



## stu&shaz

jausi said:


> SOoooo JEloussssssssssssss!!!!!, beautiful frogs man


Ha you are bang on,spent some time tonight talking to the little guy,whose stripes don't go to the nose,he looked at me a while,I guess fear,another tap of springs some quiet words,and he got it,forgot the big oaf staring and got his head down started munching. A thing of lovelness dude In blighty we do not pay what you guys in USA do, but that doesn't mean we value less. 

Each and every frog is special in it's own way,oh I could so wax lyrical on our two tank reared baby leucs at this point,but I only get time for the new that isn't covered already,which is singularly hard for me. There is just so much that I don't get time to muse on with you guys

Oh bro, dad sums has banged 3 about for us to pick up,I'm so curious as to just how they will do,compared with my efforts at incubation,nature is always the teacher here. In some ways the guy who still has the hand reared histos growing has met his match with a rani,but in many it just made him want to be better,lil jon will come mark my words,big john is patient while the oaf works it out,which is also undeniably cool. 

Oh kiddo special thanks for the support, 

be lucky mate

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

A duplicate post to show some summersi tads

These are some summersi tads,hopefully the next few to morph,note how similar the markings are













Stu


----------



## hypostatic

The last on looks like it has a triforce on it's head!


----------



## FroggyKnight

hypostatic said:


> The last on looks like it has a triforce on it's head!


I see it!! That's pretty awesome 

I'm so happy that your having success with these guys, Stu. I know how much these little fellas mean to you and I always enjoy the updates. 

John


----------



## edaxflamma

Not to be greedy but when you get a chance, could you take an update photo of this viv you posted a ways back? I love the plant placement; reminds me of a rainforest grotto or something. The angle from which you took the picture really accentuates that. Any chance of a head on shot? (now I'm being greedy...)

Awesome work as always!



stu&shaz said:


> Red frog beach pumillio sorry about these next two pics


----------



## stu&shaz

hypostatic said:


> The last on looks like it has a triforce on it's head!


To my complete embarassment I had to google tri force,embarassed because I used to play Zelda with my son when he was very small Ha, that said Dan, I don't play computer games at all,so maybe I'm being harsh on myself plus me boy is 26 so it was more than a month or two back

Anyway good spot,to me they are all so damn similar it's going to be the devils own job ,trying to id them specifically if they make it,but not something I'll moan on,what a joy to be here now!!

HNY mate

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

FroggyKnight said:


> I see it!! That's pretty awesome
> 
> I'm so happy that your having success with these guys, Stu. I know how much these little fellas mean to you and I always enjoy the updates.
> 
> John


Hey buddy ya good John?

Mate,I can't articulate how special this is to us,so long hoping for an egg with an embryo,so much thought put into just why things weren't right,the time spent gradually figuring what they need. Now we are here predicting eggs before they get laid,watching the tads grow and colour plus this lil john jr to watch and admire and a potential pair to start aswell. Ahh i'm just stoked John
I totally can't believe we are finally on our way. There are so few of this species here in blighty John it will be so cool to finally get these spread about. I've got some really good froggers/mates whom would love to keep,which means that if all goes well,these kids will go to some fantastic homes,which is always nice to know as a keeper!!

John a little side note of thanks for sharing all this with us and popping by often,tis much appreciated 

I've already mentioned we had an amazing froggy chrimbo,here's one of our new faces,one of 3 actually,which is the most JT has reared,I think she deserved that break and it did her good.

Red head froglet,a few days ootw,all 3 are up and down the viv like good un's drake has bothered about them so far,mind he's strutting about in breeding mode,caring for the usual 2 clutches of eggs now as of yesterday,so I shan't take my eye off the ball just yet. All are large oophaga so far have been pulled to rear,so i'm pondering leaving these 3 in viv,so I can compare growth rates. Way back I found drake standing on a tiny thing,now I don't know if this was actually agression,or just clumseyness,but you can see why I'm watching like a hawk at this time



Oh my little tank reared leucs and a rather large tad







HNY John

best

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

edaxflamma said:


> Not to be greedy but when you get a chance, could you take an update photo of this viv you posted a ways back? I love the plant placement; reminds me of a rainforest grotto or something. The angle from which you took the picture really accentuates that. Any chance of a head on shot? (now I'm being greedy...)
> 
> Awesome work as always!


Ha I'll try mate,its a tricky one to photograph to be honest,the viv is quite high up,too high for the tripod,that's why you have that angle in the shot pictured. It's not really changed much,just brom replacement really and trimming,but yeah sure i'll have a crack at it,be patient though kiddo,very busy at this time,maybe towards the end of the month,when I get a break...hopefully

Thanks for the kind words
best



Stu


----------



## Nismo95

Stu, been following a lot of your stuff for a long time.. One question I couldnt seem to source out on this thread.. are the rocks you're using on the backgrounds fake or real? They are amazing. I think people should either have amazing vivs or stunning frogs, not both. you are killing me with your collection! top notch work man, keep it up! you have some happy gorgeous frogs!

Brandon


----------



## Nismo95

found where you made the rocks yourself. gorgeous. you know you did well when I couldnt tell if they are fake or real. lol.


----------



## Frog pool13

Update? I sure would love to see some updated full tank shots! I really enjoy seeing the progression of your tanks


----------



## stu&shaz

Nismo95 said:


> Stu, been following a lot of your stuff for a long time.. One question I couldnt seem to source out on this thread.. are the rocks you're using on the backgrounds fake or real? They are amazing. I think people should either have amazing vivs or stunning frogs, not both. you are killing me with your collection! top notch work man, keep it up! you have some happy gorgeous frogs!
> 
> Brandon


Brandon my most humble apologies,damn when one is so busy one can't keep up with one's own ruddy thread it's not great is it. Buddy thanks for the lovely words. Yup the rocks are something we pretty much cobbled up,as always a gut feeling or hunch lead me to the method I use. I still think there is more to be had though,they could be better,but yup they fool folks in the flesh too,I have one viv with real rocks in.A close friend picked the fake as real,the real as fake,which is on the right track I guess Brandon, it's funny, they feel cold to touch like a real rock,but weigh nothing,so pop one in a guy's hand,his brain says heavy,his hand not so,almost ever time close watching of the hand reveals the hand moving upwards,weird to see and experience, this stuff amuses me.

It's strange how a collection builds isn't it,there is all that can we do this stuff and must learn more,at first. That basic need to nail everything so when one gets the first frogs,one is good enough to care for them. Then we got our leucs,the most humble and they thrive. Now we can move the racks are built some vivs growing in more astounding frogs. Simple amazement that they started breeding,bewilderment the kids survive. So it continues,the one thing we haven't done is brought in frogs and sold a group. We have had some heart aches,make mistakes(still making them!!),but we are still here and loving it. We now have 3 little leucs stomping around in the parental viv,all different sizes, waiting on a little pum(basti) to pop his other front leg. 3 little red heads growing like weeds,ha despite my reservations that Drake(dad) might kill them,an breif observation of him standing on a tiny thing took me there. At least one tiny RFB,3 bigger and an incredible elusive big kid in that viv. Kids in tubs all ways( we barely set any,just a couple or so a year and they morph and grow up) plus the lamasi in Qt. 

Yet I can't fathom the summersi Brandon,i'm utterly in no mans land with rearing them. Those pictured above,well I shouldn't have taken the pics,they look fine but over the following days we lost many. I'm hoping two more might hit land shortly,one has fronts,second not far behind. But something I'm doing is very wrong for this particular frog,yet works for pretty much all else. I'm going to try some things and see if we can finally get it right.

Man this species has been a fight for us,but no way we we give up on them. The minute it warms I'll try the live wild grub, as a first point of call,they react(strike at) food falling,so there is definitely a hunting instinct,maybe that will do the trick. Sure we have lil John,he's doing great mate really strong all over a big ol tub,man I rear tincs in these!! So far so good. So we have got the summersi breeder tag I've wanted for so damn long. We are actually watching a little sums grow up,which is sublime. But OMG the tads mate, it's horrible. Brandon, honestly, through sheer good fortune( ok a bit of graft too) we normally rear oh it must be high 90% of most if not all the others,but the summersi mortality is almost the opposite I guess. I'm not much one for bigging myself up,I own my screw ups,that's how we get better,but it is so sad getting so far then death. Hatch rate is spot on,nearing as good as it can get. Parental vits,plus vit A all in date kept in fridge,parent diet good water able to hand rear a ruddy histo. Tads diet fresh and varied:cycloops eeze not so much,two types tetra chip a ciclid pellet high in spirulina,plus others,but still I can't rear them well. All through this though little observations are leading me to diet,of the tads as being not quite right. Little things like a tad not putting on weight as fast as a sibling,at this time that tad wont make it. Sometimes they seem too bouyent for a few days then again I lose them. Hopefully now I've finally got some Dr's listening, my cared for guy's health will improve,which might just mean i'll get some of my life back. This will give me the time I need to really delve into this, and get this sorted once and for all. The parents have slowed a bit laying wise,which I'm cool with,though i've never really pushed them much. 


Frogpool is it Chris?or am I just plain wrong again
So there is a bit of an update as well on how things are for us at the mo. Sorry for being slow mate! As of 25th of feb we will have kept darts for 4 years to the day,ha how time flies. I'll really try and get a proper round up done by then as I try to each year, including da vivs Hmm ya never know later this year we might even get to grips with this adorable little frog called summersi, too. I've recently been trimming all the viv,wow it took at least a couple of whole days,you have no idea how much cutting wise I burnt on the wood burner that heats our house,bag after bag and so many sets of gloves. 

Both of you,thanks for taking your time out to reply to our little room thread and for the kind words about the vivs, I know I say thanks alot to folks take it as read, it's utterly genuine

seeya

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

For my two mates called John,lads I'm still struggling on a huge scale to get these tads reared,but for now I'm just not going to dwell on that,I have already done that enough for one day I'll say this though these two ruffians appear so damn strong,really amongst the most active froglets I've ever reared,how when so many fail?

Here's lil john now around a month old



and the younger erm sod it they will all be called john so you get one each
3 days ootw



For fun one of my chrissy pressies all three doing great,still watching drake though cor this one will be a corker



and finally dad...Drake... just more on the red colour appearing. Oh to all sorry about pic quality,pushed for time ,but something to show isn't so bad I guess



be lucky guys

Stu


----------



## Enlightened Rogue

Stu my friend...you are a treasure


----------



## mridener1

Can someone provide a link to the glass door runners you are using?


----------



## stu&shaz

Enlightened Rogue said:


> Stu my friend...you are a treasure


Hey buddy ya good? Oh john it's better than that,I'm a complete idiot.Ahh get this buddy this will make you smile

Last night as most nights,I whip up an hour or so before lights out and blow a few springs to the red head kids. They oft go right up top,before the adults go up too roost,so I use this window to get a few more springs in them,before bed. So there I am stood on a chair marveling at these babies, one is on the ground two up top all looking fab,growing really well,then right under my nose is another. So with all this watching by both Shaz and myself ( because of concerns over male agression),neither of us had spotted 4,six weeks. Hey ho mate what can I say. I'm actually thrilled to bits,but somewhat embarased,mind not enough to not laugh at myself . What a fantastic result.So you can unleash the comments about,my English being bad,but we really thought you could count to 4 dude now

couldn't make it up

best

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

mridener1 said:


> Can someone provide a link to the glass door runners you are using?


Buddy I'm in blighty..England UK so might be little help,but my best guess would be to try Chris Sherman,he of the sherman tanks/sherman vents. He is a member of this forum,but I don't know where he is based,but def your side of the pond. A great frogger and lovely guy too(I have a lot of time for him,like john above did a lot for Tesoros),he would be my first point of call

Mate a little thing,the top runners are obviously deeper as the glass door must slide up then down when fitting. I tend to use these for the sides. It gives a slightly deeper stop for say ff when one closes the door. You don't have to do this,by any means. But I think it's worth a mention,as it is so easy to not get a door quite shut properly,with the smaller bottom runner used for the side. Sure a little bit more expensive,but worth it for me. Naturally there are several ways to build out these doors,some only use one bit of glass,but so far the above is working very well for us,I built the first with small runners and much prefer this way having used then a while now.

If you make your own vivs,really sand the corners and round all the edges,before trying to fit the doors,as if left sharp you'll ruin the runners by sliding,before all the sharps are taken off the doors,they so easily dig into the plastic

good luck,hope this is some use 

Stu


----------



## Enlightened Rogue

stu&shaz said:


> Hey buddy ya good?


I`m good Stu, life has me busier than I`d like to be..but it`s all good.
Just not much time for here anymore


----------



## stu&shaz

Enlightened Rogue said:


> I`m good Stu, life has me busier than I`d like to be..but it`s all good.
> Just not much time for here anymore


I'll bombard you with pm's if you stop posting you do realize that john

But yes I do understand,oh mate I properly do!!

John lil John is special.... the breeder of my frogs is out there best to me,he and his mum are an inspiration to our hobby,they even take time out to help us,two guys trying on the other side of the world!!

But if it took time for their summersi to get going,ie the parents of mine,then ,this will change. Did you get a massive dose of optimism there? I really feel I might struggle a while longer with our summersi,but as of yesterday providing we get no horrible disasters,all might just be ok. 

John you and the other John have helped me through this always something to push us forwards. It's so hard watching a loss happen. My first summersi came from a friend here,he couldn't get my first pair going,but breeds rani. He felt with a scarce frog he should pass them on,sometimes things click for someone else. Again he's been quietly pushing pm's come in with can I help with this Stu,all quiet behind the scenes stuff,ya know try this mate watch out for that he's called Daz he won't thank me for this. That quiet push which all of you give is incredibly important when one feels sad because "this" kid didn't make it. 

I know me mate I won't ever give up,but I will always lay credit,give thanks for the kindness shown,ain't it the coolest thang,you both have never met us,but always you push for us to be better and get there. Sometimes passing that back is important,sure others are willing this through too but really this one is for you both. For me, a nobody, this is probably the dart world at it's best...... don't know who ya are never met ya..."c'mon buddy you can win",from two yanks to a brit. Been pushed by canucks dutch german too John

lovely huh

thanks man

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Hey guys,I'm shattered and short on time,I will try to get to some vivs,but predominantly I thought we need to see some frogs 


I will say this though at christmas we got 3 new red head kids ,erm I'm not that clever the 3 was and is 5,jees ,and we all thought my english was bad. A week back we got the first of the next lot.All I really want to say is man we feel blessed,seeing a family of 7 histrionica go up to roost together must be a rare sight indeed,I doubt i'll ever get this chance again. these are the first we have reard in viv,we had massive concerns about the male bullying them,he did chase and call at them and still does,but seeing him hunkered down the other night with kids strew all about one nose to nose has alyed some of my fears,at least for the moment

This pair were given a good rest I actually threw eggs away in my quest to stop them after that break this happened first one then 5. It is SO IMPORTANT TO GIVE FROGS A REST FROM BREEDING. chucking histionica eggs away seems madness,but what better example of trying to do the best and then the frogs give us this,I'm bewildered every time I stare in that tank. As you can see the kids are growing like weeds,not only that but my god some pretty frogs here.

Sorry the pics are so poor it's rushing much more to come if I get chance,I'll talk on summersi shortly,oh a smattering of red pums for fun too,RFB and cemetery





























more to come as we get chance

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Ranitomeya summersi tads,to show a base pattern of growth,all pics taken days back at the same time,if you folks have been reading this you'll know we have struggled,as ever I'm optimistic,but it could be taken from us again obviously,only this time I have a whole clutch that popped fronts within 48hours,we have to be close this time,we have to be!!!!!!!!!!!





























Ha if it does work out there will be too many John's in the world wouldn't that be cool,what I would note though is this wow aren't those markings similar,the most constistant in a species or morph I have seen so far

seeya

stu


----------



## stu&shaz

2 summersi ootw....holds breath....

Some random pics of our frogs:
Lamasi




Azzie kids growth has been astounding,I got the numbers per rearing tub right down very early,tweaking the method we are building to rear a tinc,in an effort to be better and maybe reduce and possible stress,got they look like adults and only came ootw in july







Atachibakka kids





Superblue auratus



Some of our oldest red head kids at an age to breed now,but playing the patient card of preventing this from happening,in an effort to give them the best start. I'm going to be overrun soon with big red head kids which is very strange,but I feel it is important to get at least another pair or group breeding ,before parting with any





bring it on

Stu


----------



## Enlightened Rogue

Beautiful Stu...always hoping another lil John

Peace my brother


----------



## stu&shaz

Why thank you kind sir

So far so good John, I'm still on tenderhooks. 


Tell you what I'm really struck by: these summersi seem to have so little variation in markings it's unreal. Look, I know i'm only seeing a tiny percentage of the overall potential for variation,but they all look almost like peas from the same pod It's really just the nose or the markings running off the dorsal "midline" that show any variation what so ever(I've not studied bellies though). I've not come across this level of similarity before with any frog we have bred or just kept

And that gives rise to why they will all be called John


There is some logic in there somewhere

take care buddy

Stu


----------



## hypostatic

stu&shaz said:


>


glad you're having success with the summersi! I hear they're tough to breed.



stu&shaz said:


> Superblue auratus


Really liking the "0" pattern on this guy


----------



## stu&shaz

Hey Dan,
yup I suppose they are tricky,they seem tough to keep alive too in some ways.A few have come here and there just doesn't seem to have been the success with them that there should have been,especially when one considers some of the keepers have really good knowledge.... clever guys mate!! I don't really know why though.

For my own part I feel I haven't done the best I could have,for them. I think I should have prevented breeding for much longer,I really did try mate,keeping them very much on the dry side,but damn they read a barometric pressure drop like no other frog I've kept. It is almost a given, for me at least that eggs follow a low hitting. It's also tricky getting the food right when one is dealing with young frogs hitting sexual maturity,but still possibly growing. Basically these two factors are where I feel I could have done better. No easy thing preventing them breeding though without splitting,I'll probably hold a few kids and try and keep some separate through to the 18 month mark,if I can actually rear them,so I won't have to fight against breeding as it will be impossible.

Thanks buddy,this one I have wanted to crack for years now,I am not there quite yet,but what I'm seeing now is just about as positive as it could be. If it does pan out I'll have a good few over the next month and beyond that a steady flow of kids morphing for the next 3 months. This has been hard mate,I don't feel any of us should rear 100% of eggs set,i'm a realist(behind the lunatic),but seeing a good few tads die,has been really hard for us both. We have never struggled really before,I don't mind that we had to fight for this one,I don't think all this should be easy!! But little animals in our care dying messes with me,sure here and there the odd one happens to all of us,but not like what I have seen. 

Folks might think i'm being overly hard on myself here,I'm not,but if we think we could have handled a particular situation better and made mistakes,I personally think it is best to shout about them. I knew I should have stopped them from breeding for longer,I didn't execute it well enough. If things work out from here on,then this simple thing ,might just have been my problem

Time will tell

The super blues throw some magical patterns Dan, we have another very similar to this only different head markings. I'm just in the process of setting a few eggs. It's wonderful watching them morphout, we get 4 basic colour breaks and one never knows just exactly what one will get.

Thanks again

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Mine !!!!!!




Ranitomeya summersi,bred in blighty from 100% genuine UE stock all not long ootw. So far so good !!!!













Stu


----------



## Spaff

Stu, 

I wish you were in the US simply so we could swap redhead offspring. Your kids (and breeders) are absolutely stunning. Keep up the good work!


----------



## stu&shaz

Spaff said:


> Stu,
> 
> I wish you were in the US simply so we could swap redhead offspring. Your kids (and breeders) are absolutely stunning. Keep up the good work!


Zach, sometimes I do too,there is so much about your hobby I admire and have been given so much help by you guys. 

Actually Zach I share your sentiments about the Red heads aswell,our Dendroworks line is very tight I need out crosses really from someone like yourself. Plus it's not like the kids you are rearing are ugly,I can still recollect and then went back to your thread, to see if more had been posted,you need to up date us my friend. That kid carrying so much red ,which instantly made me think of Robert and also Chris had my jaw dropping. I'd swap some with you tomorrow mate if it were possible !!!!

Zach, I also need to show you our 5 christmas kids,i'm sure I mentioned them,one, he's a boy, is singularly different. He is pictured somewhere aways back here as a tiny thing,he is still carrying so much yellow and orange more than red and almost has go faster stripes. At present i've nicknamed him flame (He reminds me of the side of a hot rod flamed up). But pretty much the whole group are lookers. 

The real point/s in mentioning them to you though are two fold: buddy try this bugburger laced with superpig at 5% in your red head viv. It's an idea I stole from you good folks,but it really seems to be having a marked effect on the colour,I might have mentioned this before,I've gone on about it alot of late. But these five are the reddest frogs We have reared at this young age anyway. I'm musing whether the ff maggots that grow and feed in the BB are in someway making the carotenoids more accessable to the frogs possibly partial breakdown is occuring in the maggot gut? 


The second part of this Zach is that these are the first red heads I have left in viv to be reared with their parents,at 4 months now they are bloody huge,they are also more rangy if you like. Shaz and I have almost done this rearing lark backwards compared with the norm for oophaga ie pulling kids straight from morphout, even the surrogacy and complete artifical side has been covered,and it's all gone well,but this clutch are outdoing all previous. 

Hmmm I always have had concerns about Dad bullying them,I found him standing on one of the first most early froglets they produced,I think it was nothing now,but it has always bothered me. At this time, I am pretty sure they will have to be pulled in the next few days,I found similar behaviour days back flame being the victim,and how I know he is a boy. They always roost as a family group,maybe one somewhere else,which I have to say is enchanting 7 redheads in one brom who get's to see that!! But Drake(dad) is fed up of sharing now he had flame pinned down and sure enough the young frog was calling. One can actually see Drake getting more and more pissed at having these ruffians in his viv. It's a shame though as I would have loved a couple more months,without the move to really evaluate the kids' growth. There is also a froglet 2 weeks out of the water ,so none of this is surprising really,the viv is simply too small. Watching it all pan out though has been really enlightening,simply put fabulous!!

Zach i'd love to see your progress please and once I get chance I'll nail some proper pictures for you too,although I think they have more to show yet,it will still be interesting to see for both of us.

John( my enlightened friend),way back you posted a thread about turning yellow frogs orange,the above will do that two, I mentioned it at the time with some cemetery bastis, hopefully I can find an old picture of a frog I have just photographed today hmm she needs to go on a diet,but there will be no tricks with the pictures,i'm amazed by the colour shift,she isn't the only yellow basti that this has happened too either, I think the third now !! Ha it's almost a shame I quite liked them yellow,but the carotenoids may well have other benefits to health ,so it's really all win.

Zach thanks for the kind words

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

John your question about yellow to orange, being effected by carotenoids,as opposed to orange to red(mate you can lift these and pop them on your thread if wanted ) . This is one of probably two sisters,they both looked yellow as kids ,before the BB/SP malarky.










and now she looks like this



Her sister(license taken here both frogs not proven,but a hunch) I haven't yet got the up too date pic but she hasn't changed looked like this and still does











So simply put I can go three ways here:

1) carrotenoids can change yellow to orange
2) one frog feeds on the carrotenoids,one doesn't...unlikely
3) some frogs that morphout yellow are actually meant to be orange,if given the necessary compounds in their diet they will reach that potential,conversely some frogs morph yellow were meant to be yellow and all the carrotenoids in the world ,won't change that fact...more likely

QED

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Naturally we do red too





Froglets from one of our two cemetery bastimentos groups we have 4 red like this,in one group and bless a tiny thing that is brown and stripey,only seen once so far late one night. The second group have just pulled 4 out yellow orange red who bloody knows,what is supremely strange is both groups have suddenly pulled a brown stripey kid out in weeks and both are unrelated funny ol' world

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Stu


----------



## xIslanderx

Amazing pics. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## alogan

You've got such an amazing collection! I hope to have a room like that one day!


----------



## isias

Wow gonna have to sit down and check this whole thread out later, thanks for sharing


----------



## stu&shaz

xIslanderx said:


> Amazing pics. Thanks for sharing!


Buddy sorry for being so slow on the reply,hard stuff going down here we and frogs all good ,but I'm somewhat distracted,thanks so much for the kindness

best

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

alogan said:


> You've got such an amazing collection! I hope to have a room like that one day!


Any thing is possible my friend,well you can see that right here Go slow, graft hard make and grow as much as possible your self to cut costs and oneday one turns round and it's one of those magic "how the hell" moments. 

Trouble is once this gets nailed, there is the slow but tough realzation that it ain't big enough

Thanks still having a blast !!

take care

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

isias said:


> Wow gonna have to sit down and check this whole thread out later, thanks for sharing


You are most welcome, enjoy,try not to count the spelling mistakes though

many thanks

Stu


----------



## rigel10

Very nice pics, really stunning! 
Next week will be for me a hard week at work, but when I have a little free time, I will read again the whole thread from the first page.
Keep us updated!


----------



## stu&shaz

Ahh buddy don't do that,you could build a new viv more quickly

Rigle how's that little fella doing?

All the summersi kids seem fine, we are still in so far so good mode. New froglets are still morphing and still walking ootw fine. It is still amazing this change in fortune. The breeding has slowed right down,really sporadic now but we get eggs every now and then. 

seeya

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

BOO



































Stu


----------



## MvFrogs

We've already talked on Facebook in the Group Summersi Breeders. Yet, I'm going to post again here.

This is one of the best posts on this forum I've ever followed. I'm coming back every once in a while to look at the great pictures.


----------



## stu&shaz

For some reason I feel you are Michiel,but you might be Arno or one of the others, whats your name please buddy ?

Which ever way that is a lovely think to say thank you so much!! Mind, there are some wonderful threads here,but we do try to share our little room. I'm very behind at the moment,these pictures were taken some time back.Life is very busy and I need to find more time to play frogs and show some of our new freinds.

My arms are falling off. : Years back we had a very cold winter ,which killed lots of treeferns in peoples' gardens. I got my hands on some rather than in being thrown into land fill and wasted. So I'm just sat a while recovering The one tool I am without is a bench saw which would make life somewhat easier. so after trying to get all this dried out,which hasn't completely worked a hand saw and elbow grease is my only option,not for the faint hearted

This is for a background on a viv where I unfortunately had some form of contamination,heartbreaking. 14 vivs built using a base similar method all similar materials and then bamm number 15 is a disaster.

I've never used tree fern(this is dicksonia) before,mainly environmental worries,so this will be a first for me. But as this would have just ended up in landfill once again the reuse recycle head is on. It's going to be very interesting for me to see how this one grows in and how the plants do,I'm really looking forwards now I have some cracking mosses and maybe a few liverworts about that have appeared naturally in my plants grown here plus a goodly few fairly special plants. This and other events have knocked me sideways of late,I wanted this done months back,but life throws us curveballs and eventually time heals.

bring it on

Stu


----------



## topher

Awesome, man! Keep up the good work !


----------



## stu&shaz

topher said:


> Awesome, man! Keep up the good work !


Ahh mate I've just stopped I can't believe the whole lot is in rebated around the cork and done,ha the very last cut of the day drew blood Only I could cut that stuff all day saw jumping all ways and mess up on the very last saw stroke,nowt major but funny as hell.

I even got a couple of hole saw cutouts for a couple of unobtrusive egg laying sites sorted. I'll be hell for leather all week and have to hope the silicone holds as the tree fern wasn't as dry as one would like ideally,but if it all pans out i'll be able to start getting subs in next weekend and maybe water,but as always softly softly will be the approach, even though I've gone at this like a mad thing today!!

Thanks for the encouragement ya can't keep a mad brit down for long

take care

Stu


----------



## darterfrog4774

Hey,

In the older vivs, are the backgrounds you use tree fern? Or something else? And are those vivs custom? Sorry if these are redundant, I'm just lazy to find responses


----------



## stu&shaz

darterfrog4774 said:


> Hey,
> 
> In the older vivs, are the backgrounds you use tree fern? Or something else? And are those vivs custom? Sorry if these are redundant, I'm just lazy to find responses


ha fortunately i'm not too lazy to reply Even though one answer is right above,Ahh mate, you're funny post here again kiddo

This is the first time ever I've used tree fern and that is basically because I have environmental concerns of using such a slow growing plant and how it's harvested. I feel one needs to be very sure it's from a sustainable source, hell it's not just the froggies I want done sustainably my whole planet is important,you'll note it's mine Seriously though, TF would have prbably been my first choice if I didn't have this monkey on my back,it's grown in tropical places so has to be infused with tropical moss spores and almost all the vivs i've seen that have used this are mosstastic Kiddo I use a form of cork around the edges it's the type that doesn't use any glue to stick the bits together to make the sheets up,but it's put together with heat and compression,using the corks own resins as a binder I believe,god knows where I got that from. I bought a huge job lot off ebay years back possibly enough for the whole room,well hopefully so anyway. Then I've made all the false rocks using rockoflex and epoxyresin,products sold by a german froggy company called ENT.

The vivs are also based on a design by the same company,you know them as eurovivs. You need to speak to my learned colleague Chirs Sherman on here ,he of Sherman tanks I have never met Chris ,but he has taught me much and made me think deeply about where our frogs are sourced. So although he'll hate me for this,he is someone I have deep respect for,even though he's mad as hell If his vivs aren't rock solid I'd be amazed..
Me being me,well I made ours actually because of financial concerns ie i'm skint and the ever present use of rubbish ie recyling. The glass was all recycled previously used ,for my earlier vivs look early in the threa for details of build

hope this helps kiddo

Stu


----------



## Drewbacca

Okay stu&shaz, I have been lurking within this thread of you all's for 5 years...
Today (I have no excuse why I haven't done this already! ;P) I want to take the time to thank you both for this beautiful documentation of your collection! Within this thread, there has been a heap of seriously helpful discussions regarding breeding, boldness, lighting, health, etc., etc... Couple that with beautifully captured photographs, and growth progress comparison photos, this has evolved into one of the most benifitual collection threads that I know of, that I LOVE to look at daily. I thank you for your dedication to keeping this thread alive, and for the incredible insight from your perspective. 
Many blessings,

-Drew


----------



## stu&shaz

Drewbacca said:


> Okay stu&shaz, I have been lurking within this thread of you all's for 5 years...
> Today (I have no excuse why I haven't done this already! ;P) I want to take the time to thank you both for this beautiful documentation of your collection! Within this thread, there has been a heap of seriously helpful discussions regarding breeding, boldness, lighting, health, etc., etc... Couple that with beautifully captured photographs, and growth progress comparison photos, this has evolved into one of the most benifitual collection threads that I know of, that I LOVE to look at daily. I thank you for your dedication to keeping this thread alive, and for the incredible insight from your perspective.
> Many blessings,
> 
> -Drew


Drew can I just say I haven't a clue what to say,sometimes folks say these kind things and ,I just haven't words.

Ahh I've got something, I would say I also hoped that every once in a while you just smiled.

Drew,heart touching words mate I'll never feel worthy of them,but i'll make a promise we are not done. 

Time is not my own at the moment,posts are too long between which bothers me I hope with time the pics might get better,OMG my new RFB kids SB's luecs cems pan specials summs still coming nearly done just a few now.

So touched by your kindness Drew really you have bewildered me !!!!!!!!
what can I say but thank you

Stu


----------



## Drewbacca

stu&shaz said:


> Drew can I just say I haven't a clue what to say,sometimes folks say these kind things and ,I just haven't words.
> 
> Ahh I've got something, I would say I also hoped that every once in a while you just smiled.
> 
> Drew,heart touching words mate I'll never feel worthy of them,but i'll make a promise we are not done.
> 
> Time is not my own at the moment,posts are too long between which bothers me I hope with time the pics might get better,OMG my new RFB kids SB's luecs cems pan specials summs still coming nearly done just a few now.
> 
> So touched by your kindness Drew really you have bewildered me !!!!!!!!
> what can I say but thank you
> 
> Stu


You know what? Sometimes on these forums on the internet people are looking for a sense of belonging. At times in their lives, even within their own families, they can be considered "outcasts" because of their interests. I have deffinately been considered an out cast within my family, and my social circle offline. Because of my art, my hobbies, my love for frogs, etc. here on DB, I am at home within a community that I can admire, I can relate too, making me feel welcomed. Here, I can experience my passion with my fellow enthusiasts like you guys, who are located in a beautiful yet, far away country. Weather you realize it or not, I thank you so much (and everyone else here on DB as well) for making an outcast feel included within a beautiful community that does not discriminate. Every since I was a child, I assumed that kindness, and positive communication is the key to world peace. I hate uneccessary conflict (that's what martial arts has taught me over the years) and I see beauty even in worst case scenarios. Thank you again for your kindness that you guys show to all for us here at DB daily.
My very best,
-Drew


----------



## stu&shaz

Drew,ahh mate you are one seriously eloquent guy,many of these sentiments you have so well put into words,I feel!1


Please be patient mate,it's stupid a clock here,i'm about to drive an horrendous distance to do a day's work and have no time for more
but I need to address your posts as best I can with a proper answer not this

belucky good sir in all you do

Stu


----------



## Drewbacca

stu&shaz said:


> Drew,ahh mate you are one seriously eloquent guy,many of these sentiments you have so well put into words,I feel!1
> 
> 
> Please be patient mate,it's stupid a clock here,i'm about to drive an horrendous distance to do a day's work and have no time for more
> but I need to address your posts as best I can with a proper answer not this
> 
> belucky good sir in all you do
> 
> Stu


Wishing you a swift and safe drive, along with a blessed and productive day...

-Drew


----------



## Chung

_...presses intercom button on desk phone and says_, "Miss Jones... would you please come into my office and take a letter."

Dear Stu&Shaz,

I too wanted to say thank you for sharing your build with the PDF world. You have done a marvelous job from the start and do I dare say finish? With projects such as this, are they ever truly finished? No, most definitely not. I have read, re-read and read your thread over and over from start to finish. I have sat with a notepad taking notes, scratching things off that I don't want, adding sticky notes for things that I do want in a vivarium and possible frog room in the future. I saved pictures, printed pictures and even taped some to a sheet of glass and looked at it from a far.

Drewbacca mentioned previously that your thread encompassed information on several areas about PDF's and I don't disagree but there are several "esoteric" lessons that need to be learned from this thread for anyone that is starting out in this hobby and while it isn't specifically stated in the very beginning of this thread it's obvious to me that you folks did an enormous amount of research, studying and put in many hours of practiced hands on experimentation before you even began to build a rack, vivarium or purchased frogs.

Many people that fail at hobbies such as this and others (i.e. aquariums) do so because they jump in feet first with blinders on and ask questions later, give up in frustration over conflicting advice, cry over the money they've spent and lost and then bemoan the hobby as being a waste of time, money, et al when the failure was caused by their own arrogance and short-sightedness. Traits that are not to be seen, considered or even thought of in this thread.

The end result speaks for itself: Vivariums that are just stunning in form, function and make a visual impact that is something, for me at least, a goal to aspire to. It shows what careful planning can achieve and further demonstrates what the concepts of "less is more"; "patience is a virtue" and "being skint" is all about and teaches one and all what the humble man can achieve. 

Now if I could only lay my hands on some English oak!


----------



## stu&shaz

Drewbacca said:


> You know what? Sometimes on these forums on the internet people are looking for a sense of belonging. At times in their lives, even within their own families, they can be considered "outcasts" because of their interests. I have deffinately been considered an out cast within my family, and my social circle offline. Because of my art, my hobbies, my love for frogs, etc. here on DB, I am at home within a community that I can admire, I can relate too, making me feel welcomed. Here, I can experience my passion with my fellow enthusiasts like you guys, who are located in a beautiful yet, far away country. Weather you realize it or not, I thank you so much (and everyone else here on DB as well) for making an outcast feel included within a beautiful community that does not discriminate. Every since I was a child, I assumed that kindness, and positive communication is the key to world peace. I hate uneccessary conflict (that's what martial arts has taught me over the years) and I see beauty even in worst case scenarios. Thank you again for your kindness that you guys show to all for us here at DB daily.
> My very best,
> -Drew


I guess the wilder populous would think it strange this fascination with amphibians, splendly coloured frogs in glass boxes and the like. As a kid I was often alone by choice, my mates had fur or slimy skins I think many would tell the same tale here. I do like the america dart comunities,you guys have made a couple of mad brits feel at home,let alone the outsider in us you speak of Drew. I'm not always aware of these things Drew tis almost subliminal,until someone points it out. I'll be frank, I think we are the normal ones and the rest of the world is nuts Everyone should be spellbound by nature in all her forms.

Drew the long thread is half accident,I'd not done anything with a computer before this froggy stuff. So I didn't know better. I was on a small brit phib forum and a couple or 3 mates said it might be interesting to document what we were trying to do.So I just plonked it all in one place and tried to keep up. When I was little I kept amphians,I had all these questions ha that ain't changed I also wanted better vivs,not ruddy fishtanks,didn't have a clue what that meant,but I knew we could do better. So in part this is for that little kid who was me,or his dad I wanted to try and see if one could really cut overheads(cause they might be skint too) through diy on many levels even not buy things recycle,to make the hobby ,this hobby, available to anyone. 

It's a shame that life has thrown so much at us these last couple or three years because although the room has progressed and you see bit and bobs time is not on my side,so the little details aren't there now like they were.

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble last friday was a walk in the park compared with today three and a half hours to get to work is moronic,but I at least wanted to attempt a reply before sleep and the weekend hits.
have a good 'un bro



Chung, again a little bewildered,please bare with me,thanks so much i'd like to give a bit more into a reply than I can now,simply put I'm falling asleep

belucky both 

Stu


----------



## MvFrogs

stu&shaz said:


> For some reason I feel you are Michiel,but you might be Arno or one of the others, whats your name please buddy ?
> 
> Which ever way that is a lovely think to say thank you so much!! Mind, there are some wonderful threads here,but we do try to share our little room. I'm very behind at the moment,these pictures were taken some time back.Life is very busy and I need to find more time to play frogs and show some of our new freinds.
> 
> My arms are falling off. : Years back we had a very cold winter ,which killed lots of treeferns in peoples' gardens. I got my hands on some rather than in being thrown into land fill and wasted. So I'm just sat a while recovering The one tool I am without is a bench saw which would make life somewhat easier. so after trying to get all this dried out,which hasn't completely worked a hand saw and elbow grease is my only option,not for the faint hearted
> 
> This is for a background on a viv where I unfortunately had some form of contamination,heartbreaking. 14 vivs built using a base similar method all similar materials and then bamm number 15 is a disaster.
> 
> I've never used tree fern(this is dicksonia) before,mainly environmental worries,so this will be a first for me. But as this would have just ended up in landfill once again the reuse recycle head is on. It's going to be very interesting for me to see how this one grows in and how the plants do,I'm really looking forwards now I have some cracking mosses and maybe a few liverworts about that have appeared naturally in my plants grown here plus a goodly few fairly special plants. This and other events have knocked me sideways of late,I wanted this done months back,but life throws us curveballs and eventually time heals.
> 
> bring it on
> 
> Stu


On spot! I'm Michiel


----------



## stu&shaz

MvFrogs said:


> On spot! I'm Michiel


Ha the clue was in your sig Michiel,but of course it was only after a few times I realized I was reading MY frogs not MV, my guts got me there. Buddy we would say "spot on"

Ahh one has to laugh at this letter thing I have no way around it but laugh at it.

And that my friends is why this thread is titled as it is I have the ability to misread two letters stuck together repeatedly, so thought it somewhat amusing, laughing at my self basically, by writing "Da" instead of "The"

take care Michiel

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Chung said:


> _...presses intercom button on desk phone and says_, "Miss Jones... would you please come into my office and take a letter."
> 
> Dear Stu&Shaz,
> 
> I too wanted to say thank you for sharing your build with the PDF world. You have done a marvelous job from the start and do I dare say finish? With projects such as this, are they ever truly finished? No, most definitely not. I have read, re-read and read your thread over and over from start to finish. I have sat with a notepad taking notes, scratching things off that I don't want, adding sticky notes for things that I do want in a vivarium and possible frog room in the future. I saved pictures, printed pictures and even taped some to a sheet of glass and looked at it from a far.
> 
> Drewbacca mentioned previously that your thread encompassed information on several areas about PDF's and I don't disagree but there are several "esoteric" lessons that need to be learned from this thread for anyone that is starting out in this hobby and while it isn't specifically stated in the very beginning of this thread it's obvious to me that you folks did an enormous amount of research, studying and put in many hours of practiced hands on experimentation before you even began to build a rack, vivarium or purchased frogs.
> 
> Many people that fail at hobbies such as this and others (i.e. aquariums) do so because they jump in feet first with blinders on and ask questions later, give up in frustration over conflicting advice, cry over the money they've spent and lost and then bemoan the hobby as being a waste of time, money, et al when the failure was caused by their own arrogance and short-sightedness. Traits that are not to be seen, considered or even thought of in this thread.
> 
> The end result speaks for itself: Vivariums that are just stunning in form, function and make a visual impact that is something, for me at least, a goal to aspire to. It shows what careful planning can achieve and further demonstrates what the concepts of "less is more"; "patience is a virtue" and "being skint" is all about and teaches one and all what the humble man can achieve.
> 
> Now if I could only lay my hands on some English oak!


All English oak is mine Chung I won't even share it with mates,ahh sorry kiddo I'm having a bloody good day and we haven' had many this year.i'm lying naturally about the oak. 

Buddy,thanks for this,I don't deserve such words,but we do try hard . Maybe because I'm older and had previous experience with amphibians as a child I went slower than many with our approach, maybe it was none of that and I was just skint. Seriously though I have this concept /analogy for learning something,one can either learn just a specialised bit one needs,or lay a foundation and instead on learning vertically one learns horizontally. Put another way one can stick some bricks on top of each other and get to a given height,or one can go back and forth trying to assimilate all the disciplins one might need to get to the top. I tried to do the latter,I wanted to know how to build a viv how to culture how to grow all our plants and make more know and understand as best I can about vits (Ed's and Allen Repashy's contributions to our hobby deserve mention).

The research period was 18months or two years Chung I'm damned if I can remember. Before we had a frog we could build a viv from the ground up culture food for a roomfull,grow most of our plants successfully,a few failures sure. We knew how our room preformed with regards to temp variations through out the year,from the coldest day to the warmest,I had a max min thermometer in their almost from the first time we had this mad idea of keeping some frogs. 

This gave us that critical foundation to build off,I guess being this thorough helps one see potential mistakes before they happen. Don't get me wrong I make them and try to share most.like my feelings about breeding summersi at a certain age above. But seriously one avoids many pitfalls if one arms oneself with knowledge before such an endevor. I suppose we just seemed to hit the ground running from there,the only thing I really never saw coming was breeding so quickly,I couldn't believe finding those first eggs it was an astounding moment.

So now here we are bumbling along and today is very very special for us. Today i've been planting up my redhead viv I mentioned, earlier. All the time I kept hearing a strange call,it was Puzzle in a film can which was distorting the call,but he kept on and on. I mentioned to Shaz ahh bless him,if he does have a female he is trying so hard to get them going. Just to put everyone straight Puzzle is a male red head bred here he lives with the only two frogs he will tolerate in his viv,we hope they are girls. Ironically both shouldn't be here one her axil failed as a tad I finished her second is one I reared by hand.

GET IN today I can confirm one of them is a female I have second gen eggs from frogs we have bred and Puzzle is shouting his ruddy head off about it and guarding them like a trooper,I'm dumbstruck 2nd gen large oophaga here....HOW? 

No really..... how? I am still bewildered by all this,it's like a dream sometimes. It seems like yesterday we travelled home with 5 little leucs in a box,worrying we wouldn't be good enough or that I'd missed something or messed up somewhere they are still here with two little ones morphed and carried in viv.

Beyond stoked and close to euphoric what can I say,ahh I know

BRING IT THE HELL ON

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Red head viv featuring cut up waste recycled Dicksonia antartica,which we got after that really cold winter a couple of years back. i'm really interested to see what happens with this stuff. I have never used tree fern because of environmental concerns,so i'm hoping we might just see a profusion of tropical mosses and maybe even ferns that have been buried away,if they survived that cold snap that is

pre planting



post planting



take care

Stu


----------



## rigel10

I doubt if Dicksonia was for years in an English garden, it has tropical moss spores. Maybe it will grow out some local moss (and/or fern).
It would be nice. It does not just have to wait and see what comes out.
Keep us updated!

P.S.: Nice viv, as always! Compliments


----------



## dendroalvaro

What wood have you used in that new viv?


----------



## stu&shaz

rigel10 said:


> I doubt if Dicksonia was for years in an English garden, it has tropical moss spores. Maybe it will grow out some local moss (and/or fern).
> It would be nice. It does not just have to wait and see what comes out.
> Keep us updated!
> 
> P.S.: Nice viv, as always! Compliments


Hey buddy,thanks for the words Rigel. dicksonia get wrapped up for winter here,folks put bubble wrap around the "trunk" and staw around the top to insulate,it get's them through most winters,depending where one is in the country of course. What I was musing was what's inside really, spores might be trapped sat waiting from when is was grown as a small plant in the tropics or maybe can survive the cold and be exposed by the cutting process?? Who knows we might learn something ha and we might not

But I'm a cheat and have put some bit's of a moss or liverwort in anyway, this does actually come from a bit of tree fern that has a tropical fern growing on it,it's beautiful Rigle this moss and has appeared here since I've been growing the fern on very rapidely.

thanks for the interest as always buddy it's very kind and lovely to talk to you again

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

dendroalvaro said:


> What wood have you used in that new viv?


Buddy it's called sumba vine I think. It is the most beautiful wood with this swirled pattern to the grain,very hard quite dense too.

I'll be honest and say this is the first time I've used anything other than a native wood...mainly oak. I don't really like the idea of transporting heavy things all around our planet when it's largely unnecessary basically for environmental reasons. While we were trying to work out what was wrong with this viv(, in it's previous incarnation), we actually felt someone might have tampered with my stash of oak in my garden,I'd rather not go further on this side issue. But suffice to say, I've always loved these vines and because I was concerned about my own wood,I made an exception and treated myself.

If you scroll down this link you'll find it,obviously if you are based on the other side of the pond you won't be able to use this supplier,but you might have a bit more info after reading the link ,which hopefully will help you find a source

Landscaping & Decor Price List

hope this helps

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Jeepers another cracking result. After so many reared and so much time We finally have red frog beach eggs from one of our kids(bred here) a huge result for us and our plans!! Up until now we have only had the one female breeding,confirmed,I suspect there is one of two youngsters in the viv that are also having fun,but those are the ones I tried to catch and not so visible as our other RFB

It is sort of embarasing that I don't know who the said frog is got a hunch though, Not being here so much means I'm missing alot of what I would have previously seen which is horrible,but shaz did mention that viv has been hellish noisy of late 

bring it on

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

Ickle pums 











The above are red frog beach some wonderful little friends of ours I rave about these little fellas,I can't help it,we have both now had OMG moments where a little tiny thing comes bouncing towards us to be fed and we have both thought as that little guy shot under our collective chins he's on the floor. so bold it's untrue and drop dead gorgeous to boot!!



Vive La France!!

Stu


----------



## stu&shaz

So little time of late,  but still here!!!!!

Rigle if you see this I haven't a clue if any of the moss or liverwort growth in this viv actually came from the treefern,what I do know is that little liverwort (I think??) that I have transplanted that came here by chance is going nuts looks like we are 3 months or so in and this progress has me stunned!!!! It is showing in some of these pics which are really froggy based redhead shots,who have incidentally started to breed,first eggs moldy but early days as yet:

_70F1090 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_70F1082 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_70F1069 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_70F1057 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_70F1044 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

_70F1034 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr

Enjoy all

Stu


----------



## amcgee2842

stu&shaz said:


> So little time of late,  but still here!!!!!
> 
> Rigle if you see this I haven't a clue if any of the moss or liverwort growth in this viv actually came from the treefern,what I do know is that little liverwort (I think??) that I have transplanted that came here by chance is going nuts looks like we are 3 months or so in and this progress has me stunned!!!! It is showing in some of these pics which are really froggy based redhead shots,who have incidentally started to breed,first eggs moldy but early days as yet:
> 
> _70F1090 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> _70F1082 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> _70F1069 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> _70F1057 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> _70F1044 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> _70F1034 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> Enjoy all
> 
> Stu


What kind of frogs are those?


----------



## stu&shaz

amcgee2842 said:


> What kind of frogs are those?


Oophaga histrionica var redhead. They are the small redhead rather than the larger which I don't think is in captivity as of yet. The small redhead is sometimes called Beunaventura I believe 

take care

Stu


----------



## ChrisAZ

amcgee2842 said:


> What kind of frogs are those?



That looks like fern gametophytes on the treefern panels to me. It sprouts up all over the treefern in my vivarium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ChrisAZ

Whoops, I quoted the wrong post above. I was commenting on the moss and liverwort on the treefern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## stu&shaz

ChrisAZ said:


> Whoops, I quoted the wrong post above. I was commenting on the moss and liverwort on the treefern.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I share your thoughts Chris,honestly I haven't a clue what it is,but I love it. What's making me go away from fern gametophytes though is it's stayed in the same low growing form for maybe two years maybe less seems to transplant and stay this way mate never a croissier (SP?) seen,mind there are some strange and wonderful ferns out there. But yes at first that is exactly what I saw when the bought fern came here on bare TF panel and the panel started to turn green.

Chris I'm simply not educated enough to know what it is . The really cool fern that i actually bought, name's gone apologies, is fab wasn't cheep ,but I'd have paid double for this freebee 

Stu


----------



## amcgee2842

stu&shaz said:


> Oophaga histrionica var redhead. They are the small redhead rather than the larger which I don't think is in captivity as of yet. The small redhead is sometimes called Beunaventura I believe
> 
> take care
> 
> Stu


Where can you purchase these small redheads? I really would like to get them....


----------



## stu&shaz

amcgee2842 said:


> Where can you purchase these small redheads? I really would like to get them....


Buddy I am in England UK so difficult to advise try Alberto Caldolini working with Tesorosde Colombia. 

I should warn you that these frogs really need an experienced keeper,I suspect you might be fairly new to this,I hope i'm not causing offence with this presumption, there is none intended. They are very scarce in captivity and low in numbers of offspring produced hence demand is very high. Most large oophaga change hands without being advertised they get passed to folks whom have often proven their ability to keep such a special and rare frog,it's very important for the hobby overal that we do the best we can collectively for them. Sorry I can't be more help

good luck

Stu


----------



## amcgee2842

stu&shaz said:


> Buddy I am in England UK so difficult to advise try Alberto Caldolini working with Tesorosde Colombia.
> 
> I should warn you that these frogs really need an experienced keeper,I suspect you might be fairly new to this,I hope i'm not causing offence with this presumption, there is none intended. They are very scarce in captivity and low in numbers of offspring produced hence demand is very high. Most large oophaga change hands without being advertised they get passed to folks whom have often proven their ability to keep such a special and rare frog,it's very important for the hobby overal that we do the best we can collectively for them. Sorry I can't be more help
> 
> good luck
> 
> Stu


I understand. I kept darts in past but is been about 15 years so much has changed. Im getting back into them and these would not be the first species I would choose to try again with but I have always wanted them and just wanted to know where to get them so down the road I would know where to turn to of I ever thought I was ready for them. Thanks for the advise.


----------



## stu&shaz

amcgee2842 said:


> I understand. I kept darts in past but is been about 15 years so much has changed. Im getting back into them and these would not be the first species I would choose to try again with but I have always wanted them and just wanted to know where to get them so down the road I would know where to turn to of I ever thought I was ready for them. Thanks for the advise.


Buddy you are utterly welcome I wish I could help more,have a dig about the work of Ivan Lozano at Tesoros de Colombia if you are recently returned you should know of this man and his amazing works to provide sustainable Colombian frogs. Here's a link to help you on your way:

Our farm | Tesoros de Colombia

all the luck

Stu


----------



## Ricard

*Amazingly good looking terrarium wall*

Hello Sir!

First of all, I want to commend you for a really nice shelf with lots of creative terrariums! Very well done and great design! I myself am in the planning phase where my plan is near to what you've done. (then aluminum and white sides) 

Would you consider to take a picture and post or email, on the whole shelf with all terrariums furnished? I need a good image for my wife to have a picture / vision of how it will look when everything is ready. My email is hulteke at me.com


Thanx a lot!!!

Ricard Hulteke
Sweden


----------



## stu&shaz

*Re: Amazingly good looking terrarium wall*



Ricard said:


> Hello Sir!
> 
> First of all, I want to commend you for a really nice shelf with lots of creative terrariums! Very well done and great design! I myself am in the planning phase where my plan is near to what you've done. (then aluminum and white sides)
> 
> Would you consider to take a picture and post or email, on the whole shelf with all terrariums furnished? I need a good image for my wife to have a picture / vision of how it will look when everything is ready. My email is hulteke at me.com
> 
> 
> Thanx a lot!!!
> 
> Ricard Hulteke
> Sweden



Hi Ricard thanks for the kind words. 

Sorry for me being so slow in replying I am so busy it's untrue,I will try and get something for you ,but please bare with me,that said, there should be as near as I can get to a full room pictures here,it isn't possible to get it all in one picture though,well leastways not without a wider angle lens than i have now. 

speak soon mate

Stu


----------



## Ricard

*Re: Amazingly good looking terrarium wall*



stu&shaz said:


> Hi Ricard thanks for the kind words.
> 
> Sorry for me being so slow in replying I am so busy it's untrue,I will try and get something for you ,but please bare with me,that said, there should be as near as I can get to a full room pictures here,it isn't possible to get it all in one picture though,well leastways not without a wider angle lens than i have now.
> 
> speak soon mate
> 
> Stu


Thanx mate! I can wait. I am just glad that you take the time answering ... Do you know places where I can buy this stuff? I got the link you gave in an earlier post but do you know somewhere you can put in measure/size on the tanks, number of tanks and then its it. Is there any web stores? I think of something like this: Konfigurator - E.N.T. Terrarientechnik


----------



## stu&shaz

Hi Ricard, my racking was built using product from here:

Buy Aluminium Online : AluminiumWarehouse.co.uk

A uk company,I have not looked at what is available now,but when I did this (5 years ago OMG)the level of products ie the types of tubing with all the different profiles,was much less limited than what can be got in EU from the likes of ENT,you might try Ruud Shoutlen at dutchrana,but I would search the web for ali profiles.

Ricard this is a big thread but if you have time skip through it.Ha it took me a long long time to get all this down with the pictures and everything you have a base method to build all this as cheeply as it can be done,not the easy way it must be said,you have the pictures here for your wife and a few other things for fun as well tadpole rearing systems plant growing tank building it is all here,my mistakes and maybe where it went well too.

I always try to answer everyone that posts on my thread Ricard,not always as quickly as I would like,but life is hard and I work stupidly long hours,then I have all these frogs to care for and that joy is hard to get away from. 

I'm just off to see if one viv of red heads have carried their tads which started to hatch last night to see if maybe a second viv of redheads eggs are fertile,maybe two more days until I know,to see my two baby leucs give them their springtails,they will be waiting for me My baby red frog beach who will also be bouncing up to see me and heaven knows what else. I have many friend to see.

But do go through all this it is free it is there for the next guy for YOU, if there is nothing here that can convince your lady that she will also have fun with these amazing frogs,then I would be surprised She will.

Oh buddy the black boards they are polycarbonate I think??? are not available here in UK I had to go white,I actually think I was forced into the best choice now 

Do read this mate I know I'm mad as a march hare,but it is working ,much to my amazement

belucky mate

Stu


----------



## JenniBee

stu&shaz said:


> So little time of late,  but still here!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Rigle if you see this I haven't a clue if any of the moss or liverwort growth in this viv actually came from the treefern,what I do know is that little liverwort (I think??) that I have transplanted that came here by chance is going nuts looks like we are 3 months or so in and this progress has me stunned!!!! It is showing in some of these pics which are really froggy based redhead shots,who have incidentally started to breed,first eggs moldy but early days as yet:
> 
> 
> 
> _70F1090 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> _70F1082 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> _70F1069 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> _70F1057 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> _70F1044 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> _70F1034 by Stuart Philpott, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy all
> 
> 
> 
> Stu



Beautiful!


----------



## Ricard

stu&shaz said:


> /.../ And finally the uvb aspect,the back portion, top,of our vivs will now be made of optiwhite glass (which lets uvb through),with a corresponding /.../


When you say UVB goes through the optiwhite glass - how do you know that? Have you done measurements to see if thats so? I wonder, cause I plan to have UVB to my Oophaga sp.



Edit: I have looked through this hole thread. Mighty!  And a lot of good pictures. Thank you for being so generous with your experience in this project! Take Care!


----------



## stu&shaz

Ricard said:


> When you say UVB goes through the optiwhite glass - how do you know that? Have you done measurements to see if thats so? I wonder, cause I plan to have UVB to my Oophaga sp.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I have looked through this hole thread. Mighty!  And a lot of good pictures. Thank you for being so generous with your experience in this project! Take Care!


At the time I wrote that I had info from pilkintons who make optiwhite,but god knows where that might be,if you look for posts here by dendroworks you may well find that info. No I haven't ever used a meter, there were also some tests done by Sports doc in his monster thread and Todd of light your reptiles,these indicate that more uvb gets through the mesh than was previously thought,these tests were done with a meter. Buddy I have never really seen basking as such and oft wondered about using the 12% acrcadia t5's as opposed to the 6%. 

Ricard , i'm a humble guy I don't think of my self as much other than a novice ( oh and of course very mad ),I feel I still have a huge amount to learn and I simply can't confirm to you how much UVB my frogs get or what effect that has or is having on them. 

Ricard I hold to a view that many things add up with frog care: good food good vits good care from us good vivs and yup sure uvb might be part of all this I feel the closer we can get all of these things to what nature gives them the better the quality of life they have. But i'm not a scientist I talk to frogs and watch hard . Really kind folks help me and the two of us graft hard and somehow we are here.

Looking back I don't really know how we managed to get here. It really is a dream for us,I guess I try to share in the hope someone else might think we can do that too...... even not so rich folks like us or maybe that child I was will get together with his dad.

They bring us joy Ricard, I need to give back to them I guess that is why all this madness continues. I do hope things go well for you on your journey,so you need not thank me for being generous,I thank these little frogs

I'll try and get some pictures this weekend for you,I have so little time but I will try 
take care

Stu

PS.....isn't it wonderful that I get to talk about frogs from england to a swedish guy on an american forum


----------



## Ricard

I am mad!!! 
I just accidentally closed my browser with my answer that had 8 links and a lot of stuff! 

I ll get back soon. Just to mad right no!


----------



## Ricard

*Finlay I find the links and stuff again!*



stu&shaz said:


> At the time I wrote that I had info from pilkintons who make optiwhite,but god knows where that might be,if you look for posts here by dendroworks you may well find that info. No I haven't ever used a meter, there were also some tests done by Sports doc in his monster thread and Todd of light your reptiles,these indicate that more uvb gets through the mesh than was previously thought,these tests were done with a meter. Buddy I have never really seen basking as such and oft wondered about using the 12% acrcadia t5's as opposed to the 6%.


Thank you for being honest with it. Its better to say hey, I don't actually dont know, then just give some subjective opinion on the matter ... So thanx! I did some googling and I found some interesting stuff. Pilkington have a line of low iron glass, with brand names like Optiwhite, optiwiev and Optiwhite S. All this glass is laminated and what is not so good is that for most of the time manufactures have a UV-protection film between the layers of glass. That is to protect furnitures, drapes etc against bleach in the sun. There is a production line that NOT have this proactive film and it is Optiwhite S. (S=solar) This is used to cover solar power elements. (dont know the english term) 





stu&shaz said:


> Ricard , i'm a humble guy I don't think of my self as much other than a novice ( oh and of course very mad ),I feel I still have a huge amount to learn and I simply can't confirm to you how much UVB my frogs get or what effect that has or is having on them.


 I found a guy from Arcadia who talkas on the subject on an english reptile forum. Take a look! 





stu&shaz said:


> Ricard I hold to a view that many things add up with frog care: good food good vits good care from us good vivs and yup sure uvb might be part of all this I feel the closer we can get all of these things to what nature gives them the better the quality of life they have. But i'm not a scientist I talk to frogs and watch hard . Really kind folks help me and the two of us graft hard and somehow we are here.


It’s all about the frogs. In an initial phase, when plans are made and dreams pushing on to come true, it is a lot of techie stuff. But I am not into this because of the nozzles or the bulkheads or even the cool new opportunities LED light brings us. I am into this because of the frogs and the combination of frogs, plants, and in larger vivs, even fishes. 





stu&shaz said:


> Looking back I don't really know how we managed to get here. It really is a dream for us,I guess I try to share in the hope someone else might think we can do that too...... even not so rich folks like us or maybe that child I was will get together with his dad.


Great! 





stu&shaz said:


> They bring us joy Ricard, I need to give back to them I guess that is why all this madness continues. I do hope things go well for you on your journey,so you need not thank me for being generous,I thank these little frogs


A generous attitude is the center of this kind of forums, and our hobby in general. I don’t take your time for granted (adding this thread and all pictures…) so THANK YOU! 





stu&shaz said:


> I'll try and get some pictures this weekend for you,I have so little time but I will try
> take care
> 
> Stu


Take your time. If you remember, do it, but dont feel any obligations! I have enough in this fantastic thread.





stu&shaz said:


> PS.....isn't it wonderful that I get to talk about frogs from england to a swedish guy on an american forum


Yeah! It’s quite amazing what new technology make to happen!


----------



## stu&shaz

Ricard,no time to reply properly,just wanted to share this:today Shaz and I five years ago became dart frog keepers 5 little leucs became our friends after all the research we finally got our first frogs. All five are still here with two kids in their viv,who I have just called and fed.

I am working all the time so miss most of the really wonderful stuff. But I am pretty sure today was the day that "Brom leaf",a redhead histrionica carried two tadpoles to water.

Brom leaf is named because she was one of our first red head kids. Her brom leaf failed right in front of my eyes and I watched her crash to the floor and couldn't find her for a while. I am a grown man ,but was beside myself with grief. I know it's just a tadpole,but I remember all this like it was yesterday. 

Eventually I found her, I fed her eggs from other frogs and to my amazement she ate then and turned into a froglet. More amazement she grew up big and strong and today 5 years to the day of us first getting some dart frogs she became a proper mummy frog

I just couldn't make this up it is completely wonderful,tell your wife this story,she needs to share in all this joy,

The pictures will follow my friend i'm sorry it's like this,but hey when I come home with nothing left, just nothing, a little frog brings joy to my life .

There is more to them than just frogs in glass boxes, how I communicate that I just don't know but that is what I'm trying to do

Five years mate 

bring it on

Stu


----------



## Ricard

stu&shaz said:


> Oophaga histrionica var redhead. They are the small redhead rather than the larger which I don't think is in captivity as of yet. The small redhead is sometimes called Beunaventura I believe
> 
> take care
> 
> Stu


they are by far the most stunning frogs I've ever seen! w o w !


----------



## Jace King

Read through this entire thread. WOW is really all I can say. A very entertaining read with amazing pictures.


----------



## Ricard

stu&shaz said:


> Ricard,no time


Hi Stu!
Can I use one of the pictures that shows your rack in a Swedish thread where I want to show how I will do my set up? I tried to inbox you with...  


Cheers!

Ricard


----------



## Ricard

Ricard said:


> Hi Stu!
> Can I use one of the pictures that shows your rack in a Swedish thread where I want to show how I will do my set up? I tried to inbox you with...
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Ricard


This one:


----------



## stu&shaz

Ricard,sorry slow I've been so busy of course mate i've just answered your pm too.

Ha a mark of the honesty in the frog world above!! Folks oft seem to just take stuff on the web but here in froggy land folks ask for permission.

Thank you ricard for your honesty if ya need a hand in any way mate just ask,I'm still here and we are still having a fantastic time with our frogs we just got a new red head baby and also have two more tiny RFB kids. Everyone else is doing well.

Met a wonderful guy yesterday,we have talked for around seven years about frogs from the days when Shaz and I dreamt of having a frog room so before all this malarky. But never actually met each other He's gone off with some lovely kids who are going to be incredibly well cared for. I have learnt much from him over the years.

Cool isn't it that some little frogs can make friendships happen that last for years and guys from other countries such as Ricard above also part of our froggy world treat others with utter honesty !!

I might not post much at the mo,due to stupid hours being worked,but it's such a joy to be part of this dart keeping lark. The good folks whom keep dart frogs seem on the whole to be very special !!
Cheers guys 
Stu


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## stu&shaz

Jace King said:


> Read through this entire thread. WOW is really all I can say. A very entertaining read with amazing pictures.


Jace again apologies for the incredibly slow time in replying,but I would like to say thank you for your time and i'm glad you enjoyed,all the luck with your ventures mate

take care

Stu


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## Ricard

stu&shaz said:


> Ricard,sorry slow I've been so busy of course mate i've just answered your pm too.
> 
> Ha a mark of the honesty in the frog world above!! Folks oft seem to just take stuff on the web but here in froggy land folks ask for permission.
> 
> Thank you ricard for your honesty if ya need a hand in any way mate just ask,I'm still here and we are still having a fantastic time with our frogs we just got a new red head baby and also have two more tiny RFB kids. Everyone else is doing well.
> 
> Met a wonderful guy yesterday,we have talked for around seven years about frogs from the days when Shaz and I dreamt of having a frog room so before all this malarky. But never actually met each other He's gone off with some lovely kids who are going to be incredibly well cared for. I have learnt much from him over the years.
> 
> Cool isn't it that some little frogs can make friendships happen that last for years and guys from other countries such as Ricard above also part of our froggy world treat others with utter honesty !!
> 
> I might not post much at the mo,due to stupid hours being worked,but it's such a joy to be part of this dart keeping lark. The good folks whom keep dart frogs seem on the whole to be very special !!
> Cheers guys
> Stu


Wow! 

Thank you mate!  
I am involved in the swedish frog society (Swedish Dendrobatide Society pilgift.se - Index) and we try to keep our forum clean from "borrowed" pictures. And as a song writer and singer (Empire 21 |) I honour people who respect the copyrights!


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