# "Living Background Terrarium Mud" on Ebay



## LRobb88 (Dec 16, 2008)

I was looking for some supplies on ebay and found this guy selling what looks to be the kitty litter / clay background mix. Anyone know of this guy and/or his method? Looks way better than my first clay background turned out!

Living Background Terrarium Mud Vivarium RARE Carnivorous Plant Fern Orchid Moss | eBay


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

I saw this ad the other day, too. Looking at the (relevant) reviews, this seller seems legitimate/worth buying from, but I would probably try the stuff in a plant-only tank first. My only problem is the generic term "clay-like organic materials". Assuming this person made the material himself or herself, then I don't see a reason why he or she isn't being more explicit about the ingredients. Perhaps a trip to the "Ask the seller a question" button is in order?


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

If anybody gets some, take some of the material and place it into a container with distilled water. Say about 5 parts water to 1 part material. Then shake vigorously to suspend all of the different particles. Allow to settle. Then take a pH reading of the water. This will also give you a visual breakdown the components.

Lower than 7 pH: acidic clay is likely a reddart clay or richly organic clay (Even more so if red in color. Commonly available clay.) 

Higher than 7 pH: base clay is likely made from a sodium or calcium bentonite clay (white in color, commonly available clay and/or kitty litter)

You want a lower than 7 pH for your soil. Around a 6.5 to a 6.0 for tropicals and even lower for carnivorous plants. Moss growth is impeded by calcium as most are 'calcifuge' plants, so I doubt it is bentonite based. 

I was working on designing a product like this years ago. Got lots of data and made multiple prototypes, but I eventually pulled the plug on it because the sheer weight of the material needed in each vivarium was too much for my liking, plus the necessity of supporting the backgrounds with plant roots (which works really well and is a good idea) just takes too long for the average vivarium builder who wants their build 'frog ready' yesterday. 

If he's got a working material and people are more patient now than before, I applaud him. The hobby is in need of more innovation and experimenters. Though I will admit I got a chuckle over the "toxic silicone and foams" comments.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I have made the kitty litter background, and for a while it was great....but eventually it failed...so I was interested in this material...and for a few bucks is worth trying..but really appreciated Vivarium Works imput...nothing beats experience and science....


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## Meefloaf (Apr 22, 2013)

on facebook a gentleman posted a product they sell in europe (i think dutch) and being in england, oooo, its basically a material you cover foam etc with and then let dry, it looked rather cool and meant not having the hassle of other methods we have. a friend of mine later revealed that is basically COPYDEX glue and COIR/PEAT, then left to dry for 2months or so and plants will start to grow out etc, he's had it going for 6months or so and has had success, i wonder about it long term personally


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## Mavpa (Jan 5, 2015)

VivariumWorks said:


> If anybody gets some, take some of the material and place it into a container with distilled water. Say about 5 parts water to 1 part material. Then shake vigorously to suspend all of the different particles. Allow to settle. Then take a pH reading of the water. This will also give you a visual breakdown the components.
> 
> Lower than 7 pH: acidic clay is likely a reddart clay or richly organic clay (Even more so if red in color. Commonly available clay.)
> 
> ...


I actually bought some of this stuff and ran the test mentioned above.

It came back in the neighborhood of 6.5 pH on a test strip.

I've got it in this plant-only tank here and it's holding up pretty well. There are patches of that NEHerp moss slurry in there that have started to green up since I last updated it. The vining plants took hold to it very easily as well.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Awesome! Looks good to me! I might try some out on a small build myself when I get some free time.


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## Veneer (Nov 13, 2012)

Received a package of this today. Molded directly onto two faces of a small glass cube (good adhesion, wedged a small _Asplenium trichomanes_ fern into it without issues) and pressed into a cork bark background already installed in an 18"x18"x24" (a little crumbly, but I didn't slope it very well out of concern for crushing plants). 

I'll see how this goes. Definitely considering this in combo with cork flats for future builds — have never liked Great Stuff and quickly got bored with the low relief of the precut Zoo Med tiles.


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## Mavpa (Jan 5, 2015)

It worked out pretty well for me.

I put up egg crate on the glass to work as a rebar system to make it easier to keep it up the sides. That vivarium actually had the silicone on the bottom fail and had to be stripped down... but I still am using it just told plants and the background is still up even though I stopped misting it and it dried out.

Where this stuff was INCREDIBLY useful was on the back end of cork bark builds when I would find a weird gap that had opened up.

My ONLY gripe would be that I had some weird weeds pop out of mine which wasn't a big deal until I found one that was out of my field of vision and it'd rooted pretty deep and it took down some mud with it.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

VivariumWorks said:


> You want a lower than 7 pH for your soil. Around a 6.5 to a 6.0 for tropicals and even lower for carnivorous plants. Moss growth is impeded by calcium as most


This a picture of moss growing in a bentonite wall with a pH of well over 7. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/at...ground-material-dripwall-claytanksept2010.jpg

some comments 

Ed


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Veneer said:


> Received a package of this today. Molded directly onto two faces of a small glass cube (good adhesion, wedged a small _Asplenium trichomanes_ fern into it without issues)



This stuff has worked well for me too, but I'd like to caution you about planting things directly into it. The material is very dense and will choke out cuttings. I wrap my cuttings in sphagnum, then pin the whole bundle to the mud. This is how plants fasten the background, according to the seller.

It may also help you to know that I have an _Asplenium_ fern on my background, as well. I just wrapped the roots in sphagnum, set it on a ledge I carved, and sprayed daily until it established. It is now sending baby ferns up my wall a la vegetative propagation.

Another fun fact is that springtails love to form mini-colonies in this stuff, especially near the top regions.


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

Ed said:


> This a picture of moss growing in a bentonite wall with a pH of well over 7.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/at...ground-material-dripwall-claytanksept2010.jpg
> 
> some comments
> ...


I'm not sure what species of moss that one is, but some others that have worked on the mud include sphagnum, Java moss, Christmas moss, and _Thuidium delicatulum_ (i.e., the NE Herp moss).


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## HDBENSON (Jan 1, 2016)

Hey guys, just tossing my two cents in the bucket... I'm new to the viv world but I have almost a decade of successful aquarium keeping under my belt. Bentonite/Montmorillonite clay is essentially plain old unscented, kitty litter. I've used it both as a substrate cap and as a filler in dozens of planted aquariums. When watered these clays have a tendency to adhere to itself VERY well. As in tightly enough to drop from three feet and barely crack. But, aquarium plants seem to root very easily through/to it, when it is thoroughly saturated. Now, regarding the chemical properties of this clay, Calcium Bentonite has a neutral pH, however sodium bentonite has a tendency to acidify when wet, and also saps GH from water that is poorly buffered(low KH). By itself it is these are very poor in nutrients. One of the great things about these clays, though, is that it has a high CEC(cation exchange capacity, the ability to absorb and then adsorp nutrients). So, it may be worth while to spray a week fertilizer, like a dry-mix orchid fert, over it while it sets? Then give it a good misting with distilled water. That or presoak in a weak fertilizer and then sculpt, set, and spray.


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## dmartin72 (Oct 27, 2004)

For those using this as a background, are you planting on it as Jeremiah suggests by wrapping in sphag and then pinning it to the background?


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## Jjl (Feb 2, 2014)

HDBENSON said:


> Hey guys, just tossing my two cents in the bucket... I'm new to the viv world but I have almost a decade of successful aquarium keeping under my belt. Bentonite/Montmorillonite clay is essentially plain old unscented, kitty litter. I've used it both as a substrate cap and as a filler in dozens of planted aquariums. When watered these clays have a tendency to adhere to itself VERY well. As in tightly enough to drop from three feet and barely crack. But, aquarium plants seem to root very easily through/to it, when it is thoroughly saturated. Now, regarding the chemical properties of this clay, Calcium Bentonite has a neutral pH, however sodium bentonite has a tendency to acidify when wet, and also saps GH from water that is poorly buffered(low KH). By itself it is these are very poor in nutrients. One of the great things about these clays, though, is that it has a high CEC(cation exchange capacity, the ability to absorb and then adsorp nutrients). So, it may be worth while to spray a week fertilizer, like a dry-mix orchid fert, over it while it sets? Then give it a good misting with distilled water. That or presoak in a weak fertilizer and then sculpt, set, and spray.


Great information. Just to clarify, though, the product being discussed isn't clay. 

This is from the seller's website's FAQ page (*bold*): 

*Q: Is Terrarium Clay Living Background material really just clay or mud?

A: No “clay” or “mud” is just an easily understood term for what the material kind of looks and feels like.*


Sorry for the bunny trail, David. I'm also curious to hear about how other people plant things in this material.


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## Veneer (Nov 13, 2012)

How has this been holding up for you guys? 

Mine has retained most of its integrity and seen some good plant growth but I did have it crust over and crack when over-ventilated (my oversight, really). Watching the humidity better would probably have forestalled that but, redoing things, I might also have pressed sphagnum moss into the bare spots instead of waiting for grow-in.


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