# Safe Foam?



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

I wanted to creat an are for a pond in my vivarium and was thiinking about making the bank out of that expanding spray foam. Does anyone know of any spray foam thats non-toxic?


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Great Stuff is what most use in their terrariums. Once cured, it's perfectly safe.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2004)

great stuff is not safe. it leaches a chemical tha binds to oxygen when in contact with water. 

black expand foam, fish safe products are out there. they won't break down, are black, and are complete ph, and chemically safe for amphibians.

i tested and read many reports on this.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Dozens of people have used Great Stuff for years and not noticed any problems. I've used it myself and had no issues with it other than how sticky it is when fresh. Overwhelmingly the consensus is Great Stuff coated with silicone is fine. Large scale breeders use it.

What is this unnamed chemical? Unless you've done scientific testing, then you can't say if it leaches chemicals, and if these chemicals have any negative effects on darts. I would be interested in seeing your tests and research on this product.


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

Here's a question:

Can an organism absorb chemical compounds (heavy metals, pesticides, etc) without showing any ill-effect?

Run a google on farm salmon for a recent discovery.


SB


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Of course they can. WE can. We're exposed to pollutants every day in the water we drink, air we breathe, and food we eat. If you think you're not, then check this out:

http://www.nrdc.org/breastmilk/

Makes you want to vote Democrat, doesn't it? The fact is that Great Stuff has been in use for a long time in vivariums, and no one has been able to point to any specific problems with it. Even big breeders like Black Jungle use it.


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

That's my point. It's like adding another variable... and when things go south... you have more variables to consider.

Or simply trying to eliminate the reason, why frogs won't breed in an environment. I know people have been saying that GE silicone II or this great stuff are safe.... but some of their frogs are not breeding, especially the tumbnails... (smaller body = more impact) 

Now which ones causing the frogs to not breed? Food, temps, place to lay eggs,.... these chemicals?? 


SB


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Arklier said:


> Dozens of people have used Great Stuff for years and not noticed any problems.


I hadn't heard of using this technique until a year or so ago, so I would be interested in hearing from people who have been using this for years. How long has it been used. 1 or 2 years without known issues isn't anything....10 years and I will believe it.

I have been really learly about using great stuff in our terrariums - the leeching problem has worried me too. It wouldn't surprise me if we don't find out a lot of the synthetic improvements we do to our terrariums, etc. don't cause some unforseen issues down the road.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2004)

Well I guess you should ask yourself, is it abreeding tank or a display tank?
If your specifically trying to breed the animal I'd keep it simple.

If your not concerned with breeding, but just care about the aesthetics, I'd say go for it.

-Tad[/list][/code]


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

From what others have posted in the past Great stuff is only toxic when it is wet and completly non-toxic when it is dry. Just like Silicone...

I have 3 tanks with great stuff one being setup for over a year with no issues and imitators breeding in it... 

I would like someone to post some proof that it is toxic after it is dry as this topic has come up a number of times with no actual proof.


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

Tad, Kyle,



> Or simply trying to eliminate the reason, why frogs won't breed in an environment. I know people have been saying that GE silicone II or this great stuff are safe.... but some of their frogs are not breeding, especially the tumbnails... (smaller body = more impact)
> Now which ones causing the frogs to not breed? Food, temps, place to lay eggs,.... these chemicals??


What I meant when I wrote this was that it's an example of more variables to be considered. Not neccesarily a true statement that chemicals will caused frogs to not breed. 

As a matter of fact, most animals carrying toxin in their body are able breed just fine. Hope that clears the point that I was trying to make.

SB


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2004)

> Now which ones causing the frogs to not breed? Food, temps, place to lay eggs,.... these chemicals??


I guess what kyle is saying, is what chemicals? and do they leach out after it dries or not? no one has any proof they due. You could ask yourself does glass prevent them from breeding? does the fact that they are enclosed in a small territory? is it because of something in the potatoes used to feed their food? I would say the variablity in the ways that they are kept are infinite, let alone that fact your talking about individual frogs that probably vary a lot more than we can see/tell. 

Still I would think that if you are trying to breed the frogs you would want to give them a fairly simple setup that offers what they need (hiding spots, calling spots, egg laying spots and tadpole spots). 

-Tad


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## Cindy Dicken (Feb 29, 2004)

I think the people that are saying Great Stuff is harmful if it comes in contact with water, are missing the point. The point being, that if this technique is done properly, it won't come in contact with water, because it will be sealed in silicone. For those that are saying that is can be broken down by UV, same thing, it is sealed in silicone so no UV can get to it.
We've been using it for sometime now with no adverse reaction.
Cindy Dicken
Vivarium Concepts
http://www.vivariumconcepts.com


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2004)

Is it "toxic if it comes in contact with water" before or after it cures? I'm certain the one aquarium (small 5.5 gallon) I experimentted with it in, some of the foam came into contact with water (after it was cured). I had two auratus spend about 5 months in that viv(they are now in a 10gallon foam free tank). I haven't noticed any problems with them at all they seem fairly healthy.


-Tad


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

My point is this. No one has ever provided any proof that it is harmful to frogs at all.

All plastics leak very small amounts of chemicals, but all of us as kids drank from plastic bottles (ok maybe not the elders). The point is its like the whole peanut butter causes cancer thing. If you 5 gallons of it a day then maybe there might be something to it.

Now I know a number of people using greatstuff and have heard of no issues that could be realted to it.


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

I hear ya... I guess what I am trying to say is that the reverse of what you are saying is also true.. 

Just because the frogs are alive and kicking does not mean that they do not accumulate toxin in their bodies.. 

So the reasoning (ie: they're fine) might not be a good measurement to use, when someone says that great stuff is safe...

I am not saying that it contain dangerous toxin etc... I don't know if it is...


SB


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I agree, but that could be true for anything we use... vitamins, water, etc, etc.


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