# Difference between kahlua and cream auratus and campana auratus



## dendrobateobsessd (Jan 24, 2009)

I've been wondering for a while what the difference between the two frogs is and which should be labeled which. Frogs that are often labeled as campanas are sometimes labeled as kahlua and creams. Could somebody please clarify the situation, I'm really confused. Also, are the names of the morphs factually accurate and is there any trustworthy collection data? If this is in the wrong section could a mod please move it(I don't know where this type of thread belongs).


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## RPN (Mar 25, 2007)

Ive also wondered the same thing. Great post and I hope you get some answers.


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## yumpster (May 22, 2009)

Use the search function and type in "kahlua and cream" and you will find results. I checked and there were several threads that I'm sure will answer this question.


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## dendrobateobsessd (Jan 24, 2009)

Thank for the suggestion. I did search up kahlua and cream but I still couldn't answer most of my questions. The one thread that was basically the same as this one never really got into all the details about where each morph is from, whether or not they're correctly labeled etc..


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## yumpster (May 22, 2009)

Hmm well that's a shame. I always just assumed they were different names for the same frog. Kahlua and cream being a name based on the physical characteristics of the frogs and Campana being a name based on the region they originate from. I could be wrong though as I am no expert.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

I've also been wondering about this. Auratus is such a mess when it comes to proper site local data and common morph names.

This link helped me the most....
Dendrobates.org - Dendrobates auratus

I'm still confused though as this above mentioned site names the Capira/Campana morph as being the same as the "Kahlua and Cream" morph.
The examples shown on said website of the Kuna Yala morph looks more representative of what I've seen breeders and PFR auratus look like that are being sold as "Kahlua and Cream".


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Take a look at the auratus morph guide (morphs 8 and 9 to be precise) 


Dendrobates auratus Morphguide

Hope this helps.

Bill


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

gothaicus said:


> I'm still confused though as this above mentioned site names the Capira/Campana morph as being the same as the "Kahlua and Cream" morph.
> The examples shown on said website of the Kuna Yala morph looks more representative of what I've seen breeders and PFR auratus look like that are being sold as "Kahlua and Cream".


The Campana and "Kahlua and Cream" forms are the same, having the brown/light brown-cream coloration (like coffee and cream). Also, the Campana and Capira locations/populations are very close to each other (if they don't actually meet and intermix...but given the poor/lack of locality data that comes with imported auratus, it's hard to say what we have in the hobby...) and all tend to have a general brownish hue to them. This is also where we find the "Camoflauge" auratus.

The Kuna Yala morph are from a completely different population and locality away from the Campana region in Panama and tend to have a definite black/white coloration. From what I've seen, true Kuna Yala auratus are pretty rare in the hobby (I've never actually seen one).


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## dendrobateobsessd (Jan 24, 2009)

Thankd everybody, the guides really helped. Skylsdale, the issue with that statment is that all of the kuna yala I've ever seen for sale in the US have been labeled as kahlua and cream. That may not always be true but that's just what I've seen. n


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

My point is that those "Kahlua and Creams" might not have actually been true Kuna Yala auratus. However, without seeing them and knowing any sort of other information on them, it's obviously difficult to say.


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## dendrobateobsessd (Jan 24, 2009)

I just recently saw a add in kingsnake advertising black and white dart frogs that looked exactly like the kuna yala/kahlua and cream morph. I was wondering why people just make up a name based on the dart frog's appearance that may be totally off, or simply creating another new name for a frog that was established in the hobby w/ a different name. Now that I've finally been begun to understand the classification of these morphs I'm left wondering if the rest of people who keep dart frogs but aren't exactly active in recognizing which name is scientifically accurate will ever learn the truth.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

skylsdale said:


> The Kuna Yala morph are from a completely different population and locality away from the Campana region in Panama and tend to have a definite black/white coloration. From what I've seen, true Kuna Yala auratus are pretty rare in the hobby (I've never actually seen one).


Thats a shame cause the Kuna Yala morph looks awesome but maybe I just haven't seen any really awesome Campanas yet. Thanks for the info.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Dendrobase has a decent selection of photos: www.DendroBase.de

If you scroll down you'll see the ones they have labeled as Capira (which most in the hobby would call Campana...but like I said, the two locales are extremely close to each other, if they don't mix). Scroll down farther and you'll see true Kuna Yala frogs--they aren't brown and cream, but an almost pure black and white.

Don't knock the Campana frogs yet--their coloration and variability is great. Once you can appreciate the pattern and coloration, they are a fantastic morph.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Marcus breeze i believe has the true kuna yala morphs, as i was just talking to him about these the other day.

kahlua and cream is another name for that morph, not the campana's....though im sure it has been applied to them also mistakenly. *EDIT* I just checked both morph guides, appearantly they contradict each other, as "kahlua and cream" is listed with campana on dendrobase and not kuna yala, but on tropical experience its the opposite. All the kuna pics i've seen though are very distinct from the majority if not all the campana pics i've seen...its probably not a good idea to mix em. I personally think the kunas are way prettier no need to muddy em up 

From what i've seen over the years the true kuna's are much more rare then the campanas SNDF is the only ones i know of that have brought them in but, im not as up todate on all that as many others.
my 2 cents

Dave


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

Dendro Dave said:


> Marcus breeze i believe has the true kuna yala morphs, as i was just talking to him about these the other day.
> 
> kahlua and cream is another name for that morph, not the campana's....though im sure it has been applied to them also mistakenly. *EDIT* I just checked both morph guides, appearantly they contradict each other, as "kahlua and cream" is listed with campana on dendrobase and not kuna yala, but on tropical experience its the opposite. All the kuna pics i've seen though are very distinct from the majority if not all the campana pics i've seen...its probably not a good idea to mix em. I personally think the kunas are way prettier no need to muddy em up
> 
> ...


The contradiction between the guides is what I was trying to point out. (badly might I add)
Thanks for saying what I could not get out properly.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Kaluah and Cream was a name given by someone who collected animals (5 or 6 pairs) from a specific location in Panama around 1998. Without giving the exact location, the Pacific Coast side just west of the Canal Zone. Campana may have been collected in a similar area so it depends on how you interpret what constitutes a morph. The name Kaluah and Cream started with the pairs from that collection trip, and there are known direct descendants of those animals. As with most morphs, the name tends to travel and encompass more than the original animals because there are so many other "morphs" that look very similar. I don't know where the Campana animals originated so can't comment as to whether or not they are from the same location.

The same thing has happened with "Camo". I came up with that name when my Kaluah frogs produced several animals that looked nothing like the original WC adults. Wasn't trying to start a new morph, simply describing what these animals looked like. Now you find references to a "Camo" morph that are not really related to the "camo" kaluahs. The "camo" kaluahs that descend from my line are just a stable polymorphism of the Kaluah and Cream frogs.

Don't know if this helps or not identifying morphs based on looks alone are always confusing.


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## Geckomander (Jan 8, 2013)

I used to think they were the same morph until only about 6 months ago, lol!


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## daryl34 (Feb 24, 2007)

Rob, Said it best, made up name to help sell or create a new morph. If its not a local, its made be the exporter/ colllector to sell animals. Another example "strawberry dart" a name to sell red small frogs. Advertising and marketing to sell frogs.

Daryl


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