# Pumilio egg laying (el dorado)



## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Hey guys,

I have heard both sides of this issue, so figured I would seek some more opinions. I have 3 el dorado pumilio that I first thought was a 1.2 group, since I had a lot of egg laying and thought I heard calling. In the months I have had them I have not heard any calling but there are eggs in the film canisters and broms that go bad.

My question is, will females lay eggs without the presence of a male? I would not see why not, but I have heard from a few that they won't, just looking for some clarification. My presumed male was extremely fat last night, and made me think it had some eggs in it, so I may have a 0.3.

Any help would be appreciated. I got some advice to separate the 3 and then introduce one of the 2 that aren't in the tank to the frog left in the tank and observe the reaction, or get a rise out of the "male" and get him to do his thing. I have seen aggression between the 2 definite females, but with the other one, they just hop near him, not actually grabbing him around the waist like the others. Any and all help is appreciated

Derek


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

yes females will lay without a male present, but these are infertile ovas, they will also lay if they hear a male calling in a separate tank


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Julio is right, they will lay w/out a male present. Also grabbing another around the mid section is a sign of wresling, not courting. Courting would be the female stroking the males back but not hugging him. Ah you were describing aggression not courting, my bad.


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## bgmike64 (Mar 16, 2008)

Do you have any pics?


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Thanks guys, that's what I had figured.

Pictures? Well I do but they are old. If you can magically sex them over pictures then you are in the wrong career.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

nice frogs! have you ever heard any calling from these frogs? does one of them have a darker throat then the other? this is usually and indication of calling males.


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## dom (Sep 23, 2007)

those frogs looks really amazing!


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

I get the same thing out of my 2 supposed Eldorados, that were supposed to be a pair. Never have heard any calling, but someone has laid several small clutches (infertile). I believe it due to my Yellow Bellys in the next tank calling all the time.
I have wrasling goin on as well. I believe them to be 2 females for all these reasons. Just my Opinion.
Supposed male has filled out alot since that single pic of him was taken


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

Sorry, deleted duplicate here.


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## psychemjr (Jan 6, 2008)

When my pair started breeding, once the eggs were laid the male stopped calling or at least didn't call as much. So much so that I though I had lost him.


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

I've noticed that just about any dart will lay without the presence of a male. Absolutely not at the same frequency , but they do lay. I once shipped a standard female lamasi that laid a clutch during shipping. If you have heard no calling , and have witnessed fighting between the supposed male and a female, you most likely have no male. 
You are correct to say it is almost impossible/magical to sex them via a pic. The same could be said about trying to ID most pums in this manor. 

Rich


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## tarbo96 (Jan 12, 2006)

I went to a show in Florida and got a steal on two El dorado, by the time I got home one had layed in the cup. They danced around each other when introduced but I didnt hear any calling. I went back to the show and pick up a third that was a supposed male and after two minutes he was calling. Now I have a 1.1.1 not sure what the original unknown was. Now I have to keep my fingers crossed on getting some tads.

Bill


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