# Snail.. uh ohh.



## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

So i just came across my first snail today. I did some reading and if you put lettuce in your viv before you go to bed, you will attract most of them to it, and than can pull it out in the morning. I will do this. 

However, what i want to know, and why i am writing this thread is to ask you guys if my tank is "doomed" with a snail problem for all of eternity. I have multiple, rare pepperomia, ficus, brom and orchid species living in this viv, all worth a fair amount of money - as it is my main display tank. Are any of these guys going to be harmed by these wretched encased demons? If so, I will buy the lettuce by the crate.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Some may be a problem, other snails may not. I wouldn't lose sleep over snails. Trap a few (with lettuce) here and there to keep the population down. I squish them when I see them but I don't go nuts hunting them down.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pl...-frogers-paying-help-co2-bombing-my-tank.html


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Is this a frog tank? I find that snails seem to like the spilled supplements more than the plants. But, then, I don't have many special plants in my vivs. Maybe they are tastier. 

I'd do the lettuce thing. Just be sure to check it early, before they go hide. I find that cucumber works too. Maybe even better. They get down into the holes left by the seeds.


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

> Some may be a problem, other snails may not. I wouldn't lose sleep over snails.


Yeah, iv'e had tiny little snails for a while and they have never really done anything (they must just eat random crap in the dirt like springtails). I wouldn't worry about it, Its the slugs that are the real trouble anyway.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

I have them, the only things they like to eat are my rare epi ferns...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Dizzle21 said:


> I have them, the only things they like to eat are my rare epi ferns...


There you go. Dillon says you can have his ferns to bait them with.


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

Haha thanks guys. Earlier yesterday I saw a skinny whitish worm crawling over the leaf litter. It was about 1mm wide And and maybe 6 or 7mm long. That's not some weird tropical slug that I don't know about is it? These 'slugs' you talk about are just ordinary looking slugs I hope.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

sounds like a nemertean. they'll eat your microfauna and flies. they're no bueno too.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Can you get a picture of the worm? It could also be a nematode which aren't really a problem.


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

I searched nemertean, and this picture pretty much describes exactly what i say. Not harmfull?


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

Nematode. possibly. Hard to say because every picture i searched was under a microscope. They wont harm my frogs though right?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Nemerteans have a disgusting proboscis that they shoot out. You'll see it as they climb around on the glass. Hate them. As far as I know, neither will hurt the frogs. My tree frogs ate the nemerteans. Which really grossed me out. Nemerteans will eat your microfauna, so, they're a pain.


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## Raf (Feb 20, 2010)

Don't feed your frogs too much and the nemerteans stay away or at least don't become a problem.


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

microfauna, microshmauna.. I have enough springs on the go to keep any froglets alive. But, what about other stuff.. what all consists of microfauna in a vivarium setup? 

Should I i be bummed? I feel bummed.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Nematodes can be harmful to other pets like spiders. You probably don't have any of those though... 

I am curious about the nemerteans as well. I just learned about them recently. I don't know much about them.


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

I actually do have spiders. But theyre separate from my display tank, in a completely different room.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

Can Assassin Snails live in a terrarium? Or do they need to me submerged?
I have them in my shrimp tanks and love them!

Steve


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

dylanserbin said:


> microfauna, microshmauna.. I have enough springs on the go to keep any froglets alive. But, what about other stuff.. what all consists of microfauna in a vivarium setup?
> 
> Should I i be bummed? I feel bummed.


Microfauna refers to any and all bug/beasties that live out a full life cycle in your viv and breed in your viv. Some are desirable and some are not.
This can be springtails, isopods, nematodes, nemerteans, spiders, mites, worms, etc. 
The microfauna that we normally try to deliberately establish is generally springtail species and isopod/woodlice species.

Nematodes and nemerteans are often confused. Nematodes are harmless scavengers. They are often blamed for egg deaths but they do not harm eggs. They only feed on dead things. (Eggs were dead already, the nematodes and simply cleaning up the mess) Nemerteans are the Devil himself. If you get them, they will decimate your springtail population. They will compete with your frogs to get the fruit flies. A good isopod population can sometimes co-exist with nemerteans.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

LizardLicker said:


> Nematodes can be harmful to other pets like spiders. You probably don't have any of those though...
> 
> I am curious about the nemerteans as well. I just learned about them recently. I don't know much about them.


Actually I would be willing to bet that there are a lot of nematodes in the tank... There are potentially one million species of nematodes of which only about 28,000 have been identified and of those 16,000 are parasitic... To say that it is unlikely to have any parasitc nematodes in the tank is a mistake.. At the very least, the snails are probably infected with thier own parasitic nematodes which won't infect frogs are still parasites.... 

Some comments

Ed


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> Nematodes and nemerteans are often confused. Nematodes are harmless scavengers. They are often blamed for egg deaths but they do not harm eggs. They only feed on dead things. (Eggs were dead already, the nematodes and simply cleaning up the mess) Nemerteans are the Devil himself. If you get them, they will decimate your springtail population. They will compete with your frogs to get the fruit flies. A good isopod population can sometimes co-exist with nemerteans.


So how do can you tell the difference between these two worms.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed said:


> Actually I would be willing to bet that there are a lot of nematodes in the tank... There are potentially one million species of nematodes of which only about 28,000 have been identified and of those 16,000 are parasitic... To say that it is unlikely to have any parasitc nematodes in the tank is a mistake.. At the very least, the snails are probably infected with thier own parasitic nematodes which won't infect frogs are still parasites....
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


So my info on nematodes is all jacked up, huh Ed? Doing a little research, of course you're right. Looks like there are predatory nematodes that eat other nematodes and protazoa, fungal feeders, plant root feeders, bacterial feeders, and omnivores. 
I found this too, that I thought was cool. There are also predatory fungi that grow through the soil. When they detect signs of nematodes, they will set traps for them. These traps may be sticky, or constrictive, in nature. The nematode will bait the trap to attract the nematodes, and the fungi eats the nematodes.
I found some info at the United States Dept. of Agriculture, Natural Resources Conservation Services site NRCS - Soil Quality / Soil Health - Soil Biology Primer - Soil Nematodes 
Ed, what if we are narrowing our focus on nematodes, specifically to the free living nematodes we commonly find in our viv's substrate and on dead frog eggs? Is it safe to say, "Most of the free living nematodes we find in our viv's substrate and on dead frog eggs, are harmless detrivores and scavengers. Many are actually beneficial to nutrient breakdown and cycling, while others can help with plant disease suppression."


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> So my info on nematodes is all jacked up, huh Ed? Doing a little research, of course you're right. Looks like there are predatory nematodes that eat other nematodes and protazoa, fungal feeders, plant root feeders, bacterial feeders, and omnivores.
> I found this too, that I thought was cool. There are also predatory fungi that grow through the soil. When they detect signs of nematodes, they will set traps for them. These traps may be sticky, or constrictive, in nature. The nematode will bait the trap to attract the nematodes, and the fungi eats the nematodes.
> I found some info at the United States Dept. of Agriculture, Natural Resources Conservation Services site NRCS - Soil Quality / Soil Health - Soil Biology Primer - Soil Nematodes


Yeah, that is a pretty cool fungus. It's a shame that you need to look at it under a microscope to see it in action. 




Pumilo said:


> Ed, what if we are narrowing our focus on nematodes, specifically to the free living nematodes we commonly find in our viv's substrate and on dead frog eggs? Is it safe to say, "Most of the free living nematodes we find in our viv's substrate and on dead frog eggs, are harmless detrivores and scavengers. Many are actually beneficial to nutrient breakdown and cycling, while others can help with plant disease suppression."


I would simply state, that the vast majority we see in the enclosures are harmless.... 

Some comments

Ed


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Ed said:


> Actually I would be willing to bet that there are a lot of nematodes in the tank... There are potentially one million species of nematodes of which only about 28,000 have been identified and of those 16,000 are parasitic... To say that it is unlikely to have any parasitc nematodes in the tank is a mistake.. At the very least, the snails are probably infected with thier own parasitic nematodes which won't infect frogs are still parasites....
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


I was referring to spiders. I incorrectly assumed the OP didn't have pet spiders.

Thank you for the information though.

Link to a post about nematodes and spiders, with photos on a different forum. Since the OP keeps them I thought it might be relevant even though they seem well separated. 

http://atshq.org/boards/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18272


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## dylanserbin (Apr 11, 2009)

daiiiim, that looks gross. Lets hope my girls dont get that..


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

LizardLicker said:


> I was referring to spiders. I incorrectly assumed the OP didn't have pet spiders.
> 
> Thank you for the information though.
> 
> ...


Well given that the nematodes in the tarantulas look to be members of the Order Rhabditida, they could potentially be in the tank since many nematodes in that order can have free living non-parasitic adults that produce both free living and parasitic offspring allowing not only for multiple generations in an enclosure but the potential for super infections. It also appears that those nematodes are wide spread since they have been reported in Theraphosids from across the world, both captive bred and wild caught..... See for example ARS | Publication request: ORAL NEMATODE INFECTION OF TARANTULAS

In general it is just a guess as to whether they are present or not and you have no basis on which to make a determination as to the chance they would be present in the enclosure or not.... 

Some comments

Ed


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Ed said:


> Well given that the nematodes in the tarantulas look to be members of the Order Rhabditida, they could potentially be in the tank since many nematodes in that order can have free living non-parasitic adults that produce both free living and parasitic offspring allowing not only for multiple generations in an enclosure but the potential for super infections. It also appears that those nematodes are wide spread since they have been reported in Theraphosids from across the world, both captive bred and wild caught..... See for example ARS | Publication request: ORAL NEMATODE INFECTION OF TARANTULAS
> 
> In general it is just a guess as to whether they are present or not and you have no basis on which to make a determination as to the chance they would be present in the enclosure or not....
> 
> ...


What in the world.... 

I never said they weren't in the tank or were in the tank. My point was that they could be harmful to his spiders. The link was to address the very possibility that they were in his tank. 

When I said, "You probably don't have any of those though..." I was assuming he didn't have pet spiders. I am well aware that I have no idea if nematodes are present or not. 

Great info as usual, however.


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## Capitol City Frog Farm (Jul 11, 2011)

Not that it matters but they probably came from your plants. I introduced new broms to my pumilio tank and found slugs eating my tads.


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