# how many fruit fly cultures do I need going?



## scapegoat (Apr 15, 2010)

I'm picking up my first set of frogs in about a month, three juvenile tincs.

I'm wondering how many cultures of FF I should have in rotation to ensure I don't run out.


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

At a bare minimum, you should have 2 cultures. In case one crashes, you have a back up. When making my batches, I alternate on a 2-1 schedule. 
Week 1 - 2 cultures
Week 2 - 1 culture
Week 3 - 2 cultures
etc.
I don't have many frogs and there is always extras at the 1 month mark when I toss the old ones out, but I never worry about running out or have problems if/when a batch crashes.


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## Darrell S (Jan 9, 2011)

Tinc's can have huge appetites , The Patricia's I had seemed to never be satisfied . You cant go wrong with extra flies . better to many than not enough.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

I would start with 2 and then make one new culture each week. Also, you probably already know this, but if you end up with multiple females you'll need to keep a close eye on them to make sure they are getting enough food. Female tincs are aggressive and will likely fight once mature.

Good luck!


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## topher (Oct 9, 2013)

A general rule I use is 1 per viv with maybe one extra every 4 or so vivs. It can get pricey at times, but it is much better to have too much than to have too little.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

topher said:


> A general rule I use is 1 per viv with maybe one extra every 4 or so vivs. It can get pricey at times, but it is much better to have too much than to have too little.


Good point. I guess that's actually pretty close to what I do. With 13 tanks now I have 20 cultures going.


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## Manzanitadude (Jan 7, 2016)

tardis101 said:


> Good point. I guess that's actually pretty close to what I do. With 13 tanks now I have 20 cultures going.


Holy cow, that's a lot of cultures. I base my cultures on how many frogs I am feeding and how often. I have 6 cultures in various stages right now. I have 8 vivs currently and 3 of those are thumbs that don't eat nearly as much as Tinc's.


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

topher said:


> A general rule I use is 1 per viv with maybe one extra every 4 or so vivs. It can get pricey at times, but it is much better to have too much than to have too little.


That's a pretty agressive general rule I have 17 tanks and make 4 cultures a week.


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## scapegoat (Apr 15, 2010)

thanks everyone for their input. I think I'll do two each week until I get a better handle of just how much they eat.

I'm planning on removing one of the three frogs once I can sex them, so that I, hopefully, have a male and female pair.


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

Not a bad idea. I started the same way and once I figured out how much the frogs eat, I cut back to the 2-1 schedule. It's still too much, but I like the idea of an extra backup just in case.


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## 55105 (Jan 27, 2015)

When I first started with 2 tincs I thought I could skimp and do 1 culture a week. This plan failed miserably.

Always have a backup - even if it means making 2 cultures a week.

Unfortunately this means you'll have overcrowded cultures. Which seems like a good thing until you realize it is causing your cultures to crash. Try to feed out of whichever culture is booming and cull if needed.

You can also try using about 1/2 the recommended media to save a bit of money. My cultures still had quite a lot of media when I was disposing them at 4 weeks. Now I use half and the cultures run dry right at about 4 weeks.

I wouldn't try this as a beginner tho - it might end badly. Maybe after you have a good supply going you can see if cutting down on media will work for you.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Always good to have a feeding station in a tank. The flies that are fed (and not immediately eaten)will lay eggs in the feeding station . The station can be as simple as a shallow lid with some fruit or media in it . I consider it to be a slow release food option. As mentioned, the flies will lay eggs in it and that will result in maggots. The frogs will eat the maggots and it's a good source of fat. The maggots that aren't eaten will pupate and will eventually hatch as flies , adding yet another meal option. 


That being said. If you were to ever have a culture that crashes , you would be covered for about a week or so until you get it all sorted out. I usually make one culture a week.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

port_plz said:


> Unfortunately this means you'll have overcrowded cultures. Which seems like a good thing until you realize it is causing your cultures to crash. Try to feed out of whichever culture is booming and cull if needed.


This shouldn't cause a crash of the culture unless the flies are genetically intolerant of the conditions. 

some comments 

Ed


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## scapegoat (Apr 15, 2010)

JonRich said:


> Always good to have a feeding station in a tank. The flies that are fed (and not immediately eaten)will lay eggs in the feeding station . The station can be as simple as a shallow lid with some fruit or media in it . I consider it to be a slow release food option. As mentioned, the flies will lay eggs in it and that will result in maggots. The frogs will eat the maggots and it's a good source of fat. The maggots that aren't eaten will pupate and will eventually hatch as flies , adding yet another meal option.


do you have any examples of the feeding station?


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## chillplants (Jul 14, 2008)

I have used the screw on caps from apple juice or gatorade bottles. Make sure they are very clean before putting in the tank. Just add a small slice of banana or whatever fruit you want.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

The reason people recommend multiple cultures is because fly production, especially for newer people can be highly variable. 

However you may be able to get around this if you have a backup plan such as:
Make friends with a dart frogger near you that can throw you a spare culture in a time of need. 
Know of a place you can buy fruit fly cultures if you need such as a pet store. 
Raise another feeder as a backup such as bean beetles


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## mysticdragon72 (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks for asking this question! As a total newb I was curious about this as well. I'm planning on 3 or 4 frogs once I get my research to the point I feel comfortable with buying them. 

With so few frogs would it be ok to buy them from a supplier like Josh's Frogs on an auto ship thing? I don't have anywhere to be able to culture FF right now... man I have a lot of reading to do!


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## scapegoat (Apr 15, 2010)

Pubfiction said:


> The reason people recommend multiple cultures is because fly production, especially for newer people can be highly variable.
> 
> However you may be able to get around this if you have a backup plan such as:
> Make friends with a dart frogger near you that can throw you a spare culture in a time of need.
> ...


I'm sure there are froggers near me, but all of the pet and aquarium stores do not carry anything remotely PDF.

However, I'd love to give the frogs a more varied diet and will start a bean beetle culture as well.


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## scapegoat (Apr 15, 2010)

mysticdragon72 said:


> Thanks for asking this question! As a total newb I was curious about this as well. I'm planning on 3 or 4 frogs once I get my research to the point I feel comfortable with buying them.
> 
> With so few frogs would it be ok to buy them from a supplier like Josh's Frogs on an auto ship thing? I don't have anywhere to be able to culture FF right now... man I have a lot of reading to do!


There is a lot of information out there, but there are a ton of little voids as well.

I'm not entirely sure you want to be paying for shipping each week to get feeder flies though. That would get expensive quick.

I don't doubt that you have the space somewhere to make FF cultures. I'm lucky that I have a maintenance room for my fish tank (it sounds grander than it is)

But if your space is limited, I can't imagine you couldn't find a spot for something like this:

HPI 3-Drawer Large Cart - Walmart.com

or even just the trays to toss under your bed.


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## slimninj4 (Dec 31, 2013)

I make 2 a week. Keep 6 going and trash any that crash or old. It is a bit cold here in the house lately and they are slowing down. I keep 4 tanks and this does me good.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

scapegoat said:


> do you have any examples of the feeding station?


You can use anything. I use the bottom of Poland Spring water bottoms, just because i drink a lot of water and always have the bottles available.. I just cut the bottom section off with a scissors. about 1" up from the bottom is fine, the frogs can hop in and out of that without an issue. I do sand the cut edge with sandpaper to avoid the frogs getting injured. 

You can see it here in this video. I'll make a more purpose video on this later this week and post. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdMmOtLo0cA


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## scapegoat (Apr 15, 2010)

Ah, I get it now. 

Makes complete sense. 

I'm about a month out from buying my frogs, but am going to place an order this week for my supplies and a live culture so I can get things moving.

appreciate everyone's responses


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## mysticdragon72 (Feb 21, 2016)

scapegoat said:


> There is a lot of information out there, but there are a ton of little voids as well.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure you want to be paying for shipping each week to get feeder flies though. That would get expensive quick.
> 
> ...


I don't think I'd have any issues finding a place to keep FF cultures if I didn't have three young cats running around that just love to get into whatever they can! LOL I do have the cabinet that I store all my aquarium supplies in... I suppose I could keep them in there? 

Would keeping two cultures going be sufficient? See, I have much more info to read up on or I'd be asking all sorts of questions.... maybe after another couple weeks though my questions will be answered once I snoop around this forum. 

Thanks for the replies though... every little bit of info will help to make me a better froggy momma!


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## topher (Oct 9, 2013)

bsr8129 said:


> That's a pretty agressive general rule I have 17 tanks and make 4 cultures a week.


You're going to have to share your media mix, or feed some more. Not sure how that is even possible. But if it works for you, awesome!

But i make extras because there is a few other froggers near me that always need cultures.


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## C los7 (Sep 24, 2015)

Shouldn't this be based on # and type of frogs and not tanks?
Terribs and tincs eat way more than thumbs. 
Using # of tanks is pretty general.


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

Very true, in my case 70% or so I tincs, leucs or terribles only a few thumbs. 

I have 37 total frogs, plus a few froglets and my 4 a week work for me. 

I don't feedevery day, I feed 3 times a week.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

topher said:


> You're going to have to share your media mix, or feed some more. Not sure how that is even possible. But if it works for you, awesome!
> 
> But i make extras because there is a few other froggers near me that always need cultures.


While I only have seven enclosures right now, I only make three cultures a week and I typically only use one to two of them. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

JonRich said:


> You can use anything. I use the bottom of Poland Spring water bottoms, just because i drink a lot of water and always have the bottles available.. I just cut the bottom section off with a scissors. about 1" up from the bottom is fine, the frogs can hop in and out of that without an issue. I do sand the cut edge with sandpaper to avoid the frogs getting injur]


Or you could just place the piece of fruit on the bottom of the tank and let it go its own way that way. I use sections of oranges with the peels on and they are typically completely gone within about 10 days. 

some comments 

Ed


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## adolph123 (Feb 24, 2016)

I made was too much cultures lol

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


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## C los7 (Sep 24, 2015)

Ed said:


> topher said:
> 
> 
> > You're going to have to share your media mix, or feed some more. Not sure how that is even possible. But if it works for you, awesome!
> ...


But again how many and type of dart frog? I think that would make a big difference. Actually I think the type of fly would also make a difference too


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

C los7 said:


> But again how many and type of dart frog? I think that would make a big difference. Actually I think the type of fly would also make a difference too


Its not as big of a difference as you think and the type of frog doesn't really matter either. The frogs tend to have much slower metabolisms than people think they do and in general the vast majority of the frogs are fed to the point of being obese to morbidly obese. A one gram frog at @75 F only requires @40 wingless melanogaster/day to sustain the resting metabolic rate. Now levels of activity above this are going to require more flies to meet the needs but people need to think in terms of maybe a couple of hundred flies/day and this doesn't even take into account any microfauna seeded into the enclosures. 

Larger frogs don't automatically need a proportionally greater number of flies. For example a six gram tinctorius doesn't need 6x the flies a 1 gram tinctorius would require. 

As for the type of fly, yes a larger fly will provide more calories so in general it requires less flies to be fed to the frog but again, it has to be weighed against the energy needs of the frogs. 

If you want to work out the calculations yourself, you can dig up the original paper which was used in Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry, 2002, Krieger press to work out some basic tables. 


Some comments 

Ed


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## C los7 (Sep 24, 2015)

Ok fair enough. But just saying the number of tanks is a bit misleading. There could be 1 frog per tank- 5 frogs per tank and so. That makes a big difference. 
I'm definitely no expert but I think using the number of frogs would be better than tanks.


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## JonRich (Oct 19, 2012)

Ed said:


> Or you could just place the piece of fruit on the bottom of the tank and let it go its own way that way. I use sections of oranges with the peels on and they are typically completely gone within about 10 days.
> 
> some comments
> 
> Ed


I used to do that, but i have a false bottom that drains into a water feature and that has been getting contaminated with the decomposing fruit juices. So i used the lid/cup method to keep things contained.


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