# Hourglass Tree frogs



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hey all, I've had these little guys for a little while now, when I bought my mancreeks in November the guy I bought them from gave me 3 little hourglass tree frog tadpoles, well they have grown up a little since then. They have been out of the water for a while now and growing up nice and big. They grow up so fast! lol. So I thought I would post a couple pictures and see what you guys think, sorry for the pics arnt the best, not the best camera and these little @$$'$ would not sit still for a quick pic! lol. I vote darts are more easy to snap pics  lol, well tell me what you think. 
I have 3 of them, I belive 1 is a male, the other 2 are females, I know I have a for sure female and a for sure male, the other one kind of flip flops for me, im not 100 percent, but I have a pretty good guess the last one is a female to. You probably wont even be able to tell their sex by the pics, the pics are more just to show you all. 
Now the first 2 pics is of one of the girls. The next 3 pics are of the male (he is my favorite  to me, he is the boldest, loves being center of attention, he always jumps all over my hand and branches and stuff, they all are very nice and bold though) and then the last picture is of the other female, she is on the top of the glass, lol she wouldnt get off for a better picture.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Nice, they look like they have some personality. Very cool.


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## Geckoguy (Dec 10, 2008)

I love these frogs they are on my list of frogs I need to have.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Lol yeah they have some personality. And yeah they are really neat frogs, I love them, 
I got them FREE to! which was cool. They have great markings also.


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

They look like clown frogs. I never heard of hour glass frogs.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

They are Dendropsophus ebraccatus, clowns are Dendropsophus leucophyllatus.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Beautiful! Grats on growing them up from tads. I've been looking around at Tree Frogs. I'm gonna have to get some, soon.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks man  yeah they are great frogs! I am not really sure how big they are going to get yet, I think they are about full size right now, im not sure though. But They are really neat. During the day they usually just chill under a leaf, but if you kina wake em up tey will be active like crazy! They are extreamly active at night. Really neat little guys. I love em.


frogface said:


> Beautiful! Grats on growing them up from tads. I've been looking around at Tree Frogs. I'm gonna have to get some, soon.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Actually from what I can see they can get a good bit bigger.. While you can make a guess at sexes at that size, it really is too small to be sure unless you actually have calling... 

Ed


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh really? How big are they soposed to get then? They are too small to sex right now?


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

IM JEALOUS!!!!! ive wanted hose for years!!! and you got them FREE!!?!?!??!?!?!?!!?!?!?


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## ghettopieninja (Jul 29, 2008)

Adult females may get to about an inch and a half but the ones I bred were probably about an inch. I really love this frog, lots of personality, very hardy, amazing variable patterns and they're so small you can comfortably house a pair in a 10 gal. or a trio in a 20.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Oh really? How big are they soposed to get then? They are too small to sex right now?


Based on the small group I have at home here are some measurements.... 

at metamorphosis SVL 9-14 mm (0.35-0.55 inches) 
at onset of adult pigmentation SVL 15-20 mm (0.59-0.79 inches)
at onset of male calling SVL 21-24 mm (0.83-0.95 inches) 
at onset female reproduction SVL 23-26 mm (0.98-1.03 mm). 

Note the overlap of sexual maturity for the females and the males.. the only way to be sure at that size is if it calls or doesn't call. Really.... 

Both males and females get bigger than those measurements as they grow throughout thier lives. I haven't measured maximal sizes out yet.. 

Between work and home, I've only been breeding and rearing this species for close to a decade.... 

Ed


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

I have heard that yours only live to about 3 years old? Whats with that? I have had wild caught ones for longer than that before and who knows their original age.

Derek



Ed said:


> Based on the small group I have at home here are some measurements....
> 
> at metamorphosis SVL 9-14 mm (0.35-0.55 inches)
> at onset of adult pigmentation SVL 15-20 mm (0.59-0.79 inches)
> ...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Derek Benson said:


> I have heard that yours only live to about 3 years old? Whats with that? I have had wild caught ones for longer than that before and who knows their original age.
> 
> Derek


Hi Derek,

Thanks for the implication that I have substandard frogs. 

When discussing these frogs with various parties I have referenced four different "lifespans". 

I have referenced median lifespan, maximal lifespan, average reproductive lifespan and maximal reproductive lifespan.. 

So before we get into this discussion a little more.. I am going off of a sample size that over the years is well over a 1000 frogs (is your group with which you are using for comparision that large?) from two different lines. One line originated at ABG and is the group I deal with at work, the other group was one I got in the pet trade and I use for working with enclosures... 

I have had hourglass that reached a age over 8 years but I would count that as the maximal life span and not what the averagefrog is going to reach.... 
The average lifespan is closer to four years (between 3-5)
the average reproductive lifespan is about 3 years...
the maximal reproductive life span in my experience is between four and five years in my experience a lot of the females die after egg deposition at those ages.. so I tend to not breed them when they are that old.... 

Ed


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Lol yeah they are good frogs, how much do they usually run? The guy I got em from was really cool.


boabab95 said:


> IM JEALOUS!!!!! ive wanted hose for years!!! and you got them FREE!!?!?!??!?!?!?!!?!?!?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah,I have the trio in a 20g.


ghettopieninja said:


> Adult females may get to about an inch and a half but the ones I bred were probably about an inch. I really love this frog, lots of personality, very hardy, amazing variable patterns and they're so small you can comfortably house a pair in a 10 gal. or a trio in a 20.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I was just curious, what do you do for them to breed? Is their breeding like darts with the cooc hut? Or what?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Lol yeah they are good frogs, how much do they usually run? The guy I got em from was really cool.


There is an ad in the frog classifieds.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I was just curious, what do you do for them to breed? Is their breeding like darts with the cooc hut? Or what?


No, they deposit the egg masses on foliage and some other substrates that are just above the surface (within a couple of inches) of pools and puddles. You can even get egg deposition without a rain chamber by using a humidifier to get the humidity high enough. They are pretty easy to breed but can be sensitive to vitamin A insufficiency.. 

Ed


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Ed,

Not implying that you have substandard frogs, you must have thought that was a personal attack, I will look past that.

The reason I brought it up is because I have heard from several dendroboard members that they won't get any ebraccatus because they only live for 3 years. They referenced you in this, and I was not sure if you had left your tadpoles in the tank to grow out with the adults, making it hard to monitor age or if they really only lasted 3 years?

Glad you could clear it up and make it known that they don't only last for 3 years.

I have some of your offspring via Novy, they seem to be doing pretty well and I too am curious about their life expectancy.

Sorry I caught you on a bad day... (Was that a serious question about me having 1k ebraccatus? c'mon...)

Derek





Ed said:


> Hi Derek,
> 
> Thanks for the implication that I have substandard frogs.
> 
> ...


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Cool thanks, could I put a petri dish or someting with a little puddle of water for them or something? Do I leave the eggs in there? Or do I pull them? Also is their call pretty loud? Or is it more quiet and low like the Azureus?


Ed said:


> No, they deposit the egg masses on foliage and some other substrates that are just above the surface (within a couple of inches) of pools and puddles. You can even get egg deposition without a rain chamber by using a humidifier to get the humidity high enough. They are pretty easy to breed but can be sensitive to vitamin A insufficiency..
> 
> Ed


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Derek Benson said:


> Ed,
> 
> Not implying that you have substandard frogs, you must have thought that was a personal attack, I will look past that.
> 
> ...


Well, I`m quite confident Ed will feel much better after reading this.

John


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Derek Benson said:


> I have heard that yours only live to about 3 years old? Whats with that? I have had wild caught ones for longer than that before and who knows their original age.
> 
> Derek





Derek Benson said:


> Not implying that you have substandard frogs, you must have thought that was a personal attack, I will look past that.




I don't want to hijack the thread. I am only going to respond to this one post and then I'm done on the forum with this topic.. 

Derek, read over the post quoted above. You specify my frogs with a statment that they that they don't live as long as your wild caught frogs. and then a statement on "What is with that"... It is really pretty hard to read that in any way other than a negative comment on the frogs in my collection. 

You could have asked that question without specifing the frogs in my collection.. and if you had done so that would not have been implying that I have poor quality frogs.. or you could have contacted me off list. 

My comment on the numbers is that when working with a small sample size, it is easy to get results that are atypical and those results should not be compared to a larger sample size. 

That is all I am going to say on it. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Cool thanks, could I put a petri dish or someting with a little puddle of water for them or something? Do I leave the eggs in there? Or do I pull them? Also is their call pretty loud? Or is it more quiet and low like the Azureus?


They need a much larger body of water than a petri dish. The smallest pool I've been able to get them to use on a consistent basis is about 4 by six inches and about 1 inch deep. 
According to the literature, the call is about 80 db (and to me its about the same loudness as pumilio..just at night for the most part..). If the conditions are right you can leave the eggs in place and let them develop but if the water volume is too small you will lose the tadpoles. I personally pull the eggs and let them develop until they start to hatch in cups. Once they start to hatch I transfer the tadpoles to thier rearing tank. 

Ed


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh alright cool, thanks man. Do you think they are ready to mate though?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

are you hearing calling? If you have just started hearing calling them the females probably aren't ready yet. If you just started hearing calling, then I would give the females another 3-4 weeks to give them a better chance to store up reserves. 
Others may suggest other methods, but I'm trying to give you the best chance for success in the longer run. 

Ed


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Ed,

You are pretty much the only one breeding them right now, about all are your frogs. Why would I beat around the bush when I am talking directly to you? I wanted to clear things up on the forum so other members could see that they don't drop dead at year 3. You misread this and read into my tone wrong I guess. Not every question asked about your frogs is an attack...

Thanks again


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I have not heard calling yet. So I guess they are not ready yet. Once they do start calling I will for sue take your advice and do what you do  Thanks again 


Ed said:


> are you hearing calling? If you have just started hearing calling them the females probably aren't ready yet. If you just started hearing calling, then I would give the females another 3-4 weeks to give them a better chance to store up reserves.
> Others may suggest other methods, but I'm trying to give you the best chance for success in the longer run.
> 
> Ed


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## ghettopieninja (Jul 29, 2008)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I have not heard calling yet. So I guess they are not ready yet. Once they do start calling I will for sue take your advice and do what you do  Thanks again


your frogs are probably a little young but you may not be hearing calling because humidity may not be high enough to trigger this. When I bred them I did not hear calling until I introduced them into a rain chamber. You may want to heavily mist the tank for a week or two and see if this induced calling.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

At home I get calling whenever a it rains outside whether I mist them or not... 

Ed


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh okay, well I will try to mist a little more.


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## ghettopieninja (Jul 29, 2008)

Ed said:


> At home I get calling whenever a it rains outside whether I mist them or not...
> 
> Ed


I worked with them in a climate controlled frog room, this may explain this


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

That could do it.. I don't get calling at work unless we have a huge front come through as they are in controlled area. 

Ed


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Alright cool, I gave them a big misting last night, and I will continue that.


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