# Dart Frog Vivarium Setup help/input



## ju5t1n (May 26, 2011)

Hello,
So I'm going to start a live planted vivarium, then get some thumbnail frogs after a few months or the next local reptile show, so I can stabilize it and of save some more money. 
This Saturday July 6th 2013 I'll be going to a reptile show in San Diego, California and was wondering what Vivarium supplies I should get? So far I have on my list.

-Exo Terra 18x18x24 (WxDxH)
-Exo Terra 18" compact hood.
-ABG Mix (for substrate)
-Leaf Litter
-Cork Bark
-Plants; Bromeliads, Ferns, Sheet Moss
-Springtails
-Dusting supplements

Do I need hydro clay balls? I'll have a false bottom made with egg crate and a water feature.
Should I get some sphagnum moss to put on top of the ABG mix?

I'll also go to my local glass shop to get some glass cut out to replace the screen top.

-Justin


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## run91 (May 28, 2013)

Hello and Welcome!

I think you have a pretty good start on your list of materials. You may want to look into any wood or coco huts as accents to the tank. If you have an egg crate false bottom, you don't really need hydro clay. 
I can't think of too much else, but you're off to a good start!

Best of luck!


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Depending on what bulbs you'll use you might want to get two fixtures.
Otherwise it looks like you have it figured out.


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## ju5t1n (May 26, 2011)

Alright cool, Thank you just wanna double check with the experts 

For the coco hut I was on the fence about making a few or just buying them lol. (My Grandpa has full size band saw)

That's what I thought about the hydroballs figured the egg crate would take the place of hydroballs, but didn't know if I still needed them.

The compact 18" hood I want has 2 sockets.
Exo Terra Compact Fluorescent Terrarium Canopy 18"

*What about "Should I get some sphagnum moss to put on top of the ABG mix?"* What do you guys think about that? or will the ABG mix and leaf litter be enough?

It probably is like common sense to you guys but I took a couple days of research to put that small list together lol. 

Thank you for the quick replies! Put me at ease.
-Justin


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Yeah I know the 18" compact top has two sockets, I probably should have written two compact tops to make it more clear

But that all depends on what bulbs you use, the sockets are rated for max 25w each I think. So if you plan on using cfl's you might want to use four cfl's to get good light. With the Jungle dawns I hear you only need two 13w bulbs, but I haven't tried them so I can't say for sure.

You don't need/want sphagnum on top of the abg, it retains too much water.

Good luck


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## ju5t1n (May 26, 2011)

Ohhhhhh alright makes sense  
Hummm I'll start with one and see how the lighting is.

Thank you!
-Justin


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I know that there is a popular, how to video, that shows sphagnum layered over the top of the sphagnum. Personally, I think the practice is counterproductive. We are trying to create a humid, very well drained substrate. ABG mix is already designed to do that. If you add an extremely wet layer (the sphagnum moss) over the top, you are locking up too much moisture. That's not going to be ideal for your plants or your frogs. In fact, there are reports of frogs getting foot rot from too wet a substrate. Plus, the extra moisture you are locking up is not good for microfauna growth. It's too wet. It will also decompose your ABG mix and your leaf litter faster. 
Instead, use a simple layer of leaf litter over the top of the ABG.


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## ju5t1n (May 26, 2011)

Alright sounds good one less thing to buy Lol! I think that's probably the video I watched on how to setup a dart frog vivarium.


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## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

At the San Diego show,Just walk right past the Dart Frog Connection booth. You will find that is the general consensus here. Vendor feedback is against forum rules, and Kyle protects Taron by deleting posts, so I may be banned for saying so but if it keeps you from wasting money on sick frogs, ban away


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## ju5t1n (May 26, 2011)

Ah yeah I added them on facebook a couple of days ago since I saw that they were going to be there. I'll consider that advice  not feedback.

I also heard if I'm going to buy from a vendor there I should stick to a vendor that just sells dart frogs. I probably wont be buying frogs this trip since that setups going to cost about $250 or so depends on how much they mark it down for the show. I really want to make sure its perfect or as close as I can before I get some frogs.

-Justin


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## Boboluke (Apr 12, 2013)

I'd suggest a stop at Marty's booth if you want to see and hear about things being done the right way. I have a hunch there will be a lot of froggers checking out the new lighting system. 

I know I want to see that thing.


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## grantska (Apr 12, 2012)

You can get good plant growth with just One Exo light fixture. Add some higher wattage bulbs maybe 23-26w (look at the lumen output too). Or some jungle dawn LEDs. More of an investment upfront but well worth it IMO. That being said I have had good success with just two CFLs in the 18" fixture. Even some nice brom color. You can always add a second fixture later if you think you need more light.


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## Boboluke (Apr 12, 2013)

Sammie said:


> Yeah I know the 18" compact top has two sockets, I probably should have written two compact tops to make it more clear
> 
> But that all depends on what bulbs you use, the sockets are rated for max 25w each I think. So if you plan on using cfl's you might want to use four cfl's to get good light. With the Jungle dawns I hear you only need two 13w bulbs, but I haven't tried them so I can't say for sure.
> 
> ...


IMO go with the dual jungle dawns.

This is 18x18x24 exo with a 2 jungle dawn 13w. The top glass is a condensation covered since it just misted about 10 minutes before I snapped the pic. It should give you an idea of light penetration. The bottom is intentionally shaded in the middle.

Don't judge by the plant growth. The plants went in yesterday. This is an in progress build.


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## ju5t1n (May 26, 2011)

I don't think I'm going to get the LEDs right now, maybe in the future.

Nice vivarium that exactly how I want mine to look!

For the bulbs I found 2 different bulbs at my local hardware store that are both 5000 kelvins but one is 900 Lumens and the other is 1,600 lumens. 
If I was going to put two bulbs, which of the 5000 kelvin bulbs should I use? dual 900 lumens or dual 1,600 lumens? and why if you don't mind.

I'm thinking dual 5000 kelvins with 1,600 lumens for a 18x18x24(WxDxH) vivarium with a glass top, But I really have no clue.

-Justin


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

ju5t1n said:


> I don't think I'm going to get the LEDs right now, maybe in the future.
> 
> Nice vivarium that exactly how I want mine to look!
> 
> ...


5000 isnt enough IMO. It may work to some extent, but I have used the 5,000 and they honestly are not even appealing to MY eyes.. I dont use them anymore and didnt use them for very long. About as long as it took me to track down some 6500 kelvin CFL's. lol. Look around, walmart usually sells them in 4 packs for about 10 bucks. The mini spirals are actually pretty great and I do believe the ones I got from walmart were around 1600 lumens.. for what its worth


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## Scott Richardson (Dec 23, 2010)

The spiral 6500k are great. Closest to sunlight. Every bulb in my house is a 6500k. It takes getting used to, but lower watt bulbs appear more vivid and brighter than higher soft whites. and in the winter it helps with cabin fever when you are stuck inside


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## grantska (Apr 12, 2012)

With a small two bulb lighting system there is no one "right" way to choose what bulbs to use. Any bulb that is 5,00 or 6,500 will work fine for plant growth. Its more of a question of what you think makes your viv look good. Many people even use a combination of different Kelvin bulbs to create a more broad spectrum of light. The more important factor in your case is how much light output you are getting from your bulbs. If you are still worried about it do a search on the board. There are many good lighting threads out there. The ones you selected should give you decent growth for the time being. Remember that CFLs loose some effectiveness in about 6 months. When you compare the cost of replacing many CFL with the up front cost of LED bulbs there really isnt a huge gap there. And what small difference there is in price is more than made up for with other benefits like better growth, lower temps, etc.


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## ju5t1n (May 26, 2011)

Ahhh decisions decisions. I think I should of bought the LEDs at the show...
They didn't have any 18" compact hoods for some reason every size besides that one! 

I just got my 18x18x24 for about $90 after california tax at the reptile show.

The guys are Dart Frog Connection were very helpful and even threw in about $10.00 in free stuff along with the plant bundles and stuff already cheap since it was a reptile show.
I got at the reptile show;
-Exo Terra 18x18x24
-DFC Substrate
-DFC Background Mix
-Sead Grape Leaf litter
-Plants x6 (I don't even know the names) 2 bromeliads, 2 ferns, and 2 other ones.
-Cork Bark
-2 Coco huts

Just about all set!
Going to get some Great Stuff expanding foam and some black silicone tomorrow. Maybe run to the reptile shop to get a few things.

I'm stoked already made the egg crate false bottom!


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## Drains (Apr 2, 2010)

Is there any update to this? Am in the process of setting up my first tank and wanted to see some others!


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