# An incredible day with a hobbyist breeder, from a beginner's perspective.



## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

I am still on Cloud 9 after spending the day with DB member Lisa Chesney, aka Chesney here on the boards. She was kind enough to invite me over to her house to get an inside look at what it takes to care for a larger breeding collection. Actually, what really happened was that she invited me over only after her CTS returned due to answering the 1,581 texts I sent asking stupid questions.

Upon arrival, Lisa was kind enough to agree to allow me to take pictures and write about our day, giving we beginners an unedited look at her husbandry/rearing techniques. I was instructed to leave her out of the pics but snuck a few in anyway. I am certain that I will pay for this severe error in judgement. 

I elected to post this in the Beginner section versus in Eggs/Tads as I am unable to speak intelligently about why she does things a certain way. I know that the veterans here love to discuss the technicalities of different techniques. This is again, just a snapshot for new folks. I'll be happy to answer any questions that I can.

Finally, before I begin, it is important to note that Lisa made it clear that this is HER way of doing things. One of many different ways and not necessarily the best accepted practices. Right or wrong, this is what works for her.

We went through frog chores in an order most covenient to her. To avoid confusion, I will begin with FF cultures and move through a logical progression from check for eggs on. I apologize in advance for my crappy camera. While the pictures will hopefully help make some sense of my inane rambling, they will not be making the cover of a magazine any time soon. So away we go !

FF CULTURES

This process was pretty straight forward. She runs Josh's media and coffee filters, with a pinch of yeast for love. Because the majority of her collection consists of tincs, standard diet is Melanos and springs with occasional snacks as she see fits. How many FF cultures does is take to keep her 20 + Couples (give or take) and froglets looking like they have kankles and their mother's thighs? 12 per week. Lisa actually explained that she really only needs 10 cultures per week. She makes 2 extra every week. Cheap insurance in the event she experiences a crash, or, more likely, some moron like me calls begging bugs.

She runs a 4 week cycle. Eash week is numbered 1 through 4. The oldest cultures are thrown away as soon as the new ones are made. In our case, we made Week 3 cultures. Once completed, we through away the old Week 3. Culture cups were trashed. She does not recycle cups.

The area that her frogs dream about.The bug closet:










EGG CHECK

We then moved tank by tank with Lisa lifting up cocnut shells. I felt like we were playing Three Card Monte and winning every other hand. Every time she pulled eggs, the species was written on the edge of the lid and the eggs were misted. She explained that it was importment to use just enough water to keep the clutch moist without submerging the eggs. Oh, and she grinned like a six year old every time she pulled a clutch. She also showed me how to stack the lids to avoid potential damage. I was terrified that I was going to somehow harm them.

Here is the egg vault, for lack of a better term. There were more eggs than I could count. It really was amazing to me just how many frog's futures were safely stored.










TADS TO WATER

We reviewed each egg in the sotrage bin. Those clutches with tads out of the egg were pulled to move to water. 

Note species listed on lid edge. I believe that this is officially the youngest Bakhuis Mountain that I have ever seen:










continued.....


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## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

Subscribed... love the breakdown!


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

TADS TO WATER CONT...

Just prior to pulling tads we had to make new tad cups. Just how many cups did we make? 50. Lisa makes 50 at a time. She then took out a huge bag of almond leaves. I could have made a car payment with it. Here is a picture of an almond leaf for those that haven't ever seen one. Please note that the sexy legs and feet off to the right in this picture are not mine. I actually ride around on a chicken.










We tore a piece of almond leaf off and added to each cup. I was deeply troubled about the EXACT size of the chunk of almond leaf that goes in to the cup. To make things worse, she refused to lend me here micrometer.That is probably why Lisa prepared 43 of the cups and I managed to knock out a mere 7. She actually can do these cups faster than a Vegas dealer.










She uses aged or standing water which is stored in gallon sized milk containers for ease of pour. When we got done, TADA ! This is what they looked like. Pretty exciting huh ? A leaf in a cup of water. Personally, I have had this happen to more than one frosty adult beverage while at a picnic.










I kept waiting for her to show me her tadpole secret herbs and spices. She explained that there was no need to anything else to the water other than food.

With that, she GENTLY sucked the tadpoles off of the lids and placed each of them in their temporary new home. She offered to let me have a go. I told her that I was not yet qualified to do anything other than indentured servent work. That was way too much pressure for me. Had I made an attempt, there would be three of the most stunning Tincs with turkey baster dents in their respective heads.

Cont....


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## A&K Reptiles (Jul 22, 2011)

Very cool. Awesome To get that kind of hands on experience!

A&K Reptiles
[email protected]
(607)-372-4195


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

FEEDING/INSPECTING TADS

It was now time to feed the tads. How many tads ? Feel free to count tad cups in the following pics. If you guessed a gajillion, you're close. That shelf in the first pic goes all the way to the back wall. It is one of two. 










All tads are stacked on the shelf by species. There is a blue piece of tape which was created the day that the tad went in to the water. 

We put 15 tads on the table at a time. It freaked me out every single time Lisa picked up stacks of cups.










The first thing I was instructed to do was pull leggers. trying to look for those little tiny front legs was tough....especially for a fat guy that squints with only one good eye. Tadpole, tadpole, tadpole,tadpole, LEGGER ! I GOT A LEGGER ! I was told to dump all of the water out of the cup, leaving just enough to cover the.........wait for it..........LEGGER !

Once the ........well, you know......were set aside, we began feeding. I was given a little cup and told to feed each tad between 1 and 5 tad bites. This caused me great great pain in deciding exactly which tad received a single order, and which one received triple has browns, smothered and covered. I wasted much of Lisa's time pointing to a tad cup and saying," 2 or 3?" I did not not want to starve a tad, nor did I want to foul the water.

By the time we got to the second shelf, I started to get my act together and feed accurately. Lookie, my first LEGGER ! I can't stop yelling LEGGER ! It's better than the medical shows on TV where someone yells, "CODE BLUE ! STAT!"










I did note that there were significant differences in tad to froglet development, when comparing the in-water date. The next time I return , I think I am going to see if we can identify any pattern by species.

Out of what had to be at minimum of a couple hundred tads, I think we had 
12-15 LEGGERS !

Now for a more sensitive answer to a question that many of us think about. How many tads didn't make it? The number was 2. Lisa stated that her best guess was a loss rate of 0-2 tads weekly. She has never been able to find any pattern, with the expcetion of one particular species which has a higher mortality rate than tincs in general. 

CONT.....


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Thank you so much Zoomie, and Lisa!!
I am in awe of ALL THOSE TADPOLES!! 
and I'm dying to know what happens when there is a legger? Does it just stay in the tupperware?


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

LEGGERS TO CLIMBERS

First, a climber is my made up word for froglets who move from water to land. I am deeply saddened to report that it is nowhere near as much fun to yell as LEGGER !

It was not easy to find an unoccupied bin. Feel free to count the number of froglett laden bins in the follow pics. I think there were at least 24 of them, with varying number of froglets depending on size and appetite size. We spent most of the afternoon pushing these around.




























Lisa had prepared a few bins in advance. She apparently was quite hungry and elected to slurp a few springs. If it's good enough for her Darts, it's good enough for her!










This was one of the coolest things I picked up yesterday. As she prepared the new froglet bin, she pulled a Spring culture. Instead of flooding her culture out and drowning a portion of it, she popped the top on it, grabbed a straw, and gently blew air across the culture. Miraculously, I watched Springs gently fall in to the container. She NEVER disrupted the culture itself. Now how cool is that ? 

Once she seeded a few Springs as a potential food source, we made LEGGER condos. Lisa explained that the container had to be set at an angle gentle enough to allow the legger to come to shore when he or she was ready, but not so low that the legger lost all water and dies. She took her time here wedging the cups and creating indentations. 










Here's another with some leaves added for future hides:










A different shot to try and give you a better perspective on the angle of the cup:










Once the cups were transferred, I was instructed to take the sticker off of the tad cup and place it on the bin. Every piece of blue tape is a legger/climber/froglet.




















FROGLET FEED

This is where the real fun began. Time to dose and feed. She grabbed culture cups and started tapping up a storm. Every time she dumped Melanos in to the container, she shook it to ensure that they were coated in what I thought was Repashy Calcium + ICB. 

We moved each tub to the table and took the lid off. Lisa took a good 15 seconds or so to see just how many flies were in the container from the last feeding. If she she saw any more that a few, we did not feed. She explained that it was important to provide available food as froglets don't eat with the same voracity as adults. By the same token, too much available food tends to stress the young froglets out which can make them susceptable to potential ailments. This is clearly an area to pay close attention.

I couldn't help but cheer and every one of them on as they started stalking flies. 

CONT...


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

This is wonderful! I've been admiring Lisa's website for quite some time and it's awesome that you are providing this look at "a day in the life" of how she operates. If I could thank you a million times, I would!


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

FEEDING THE BIG BOYS AND GIRLS

Not alot to say about this as it is pretty straight forward. Lisa did tell me to pick 1 or 2 spots in each tank and feed in the same place(s) every time.

On the feedbag:










Flies trying to run down the side of the love shack. They ain't gonna make it !










A couple of things happened which were interesting. The first was when Lisa was tapping on the culture cups. When I turned around, every frog in the frog room was up front in the tank against the glass. It looked like final roll call before lockdown !

Lisa had just dropped in a spoon full of Melanos in to the tank. I lifted the lid right after her and took a look. I couldn't see the frog, but watched as fly after fly disappeared off of the feeding site. Every once in a while you saw a glimmer of tongue. This pig was taking two at a time ! He apparently has learned to use cover and concealment to his advantage.  It's safe to say that a lot of melanos lost their lives.

With that, Lisa thanked me profusley. She told me that I earned the ultimate reward, a cold Pepsi and a chair in the frog room. It was flippin awesome. I begged some painters tape and marked each species on the tank. I wanted to just sit and observe. Since I am so new to this, I am still having a hard time identifying certain species. Lisa was not impressed with my painters tape sharpie tags. Before I knew it, she had a label gun and stuck one on every tank. 

I suspect that all froggers relish their repspective frog rooms, regardless if they have one tank or thirty. Still, there is something very special about camping out in someone elses frog room. 

We sat there sipping sodas and she continued to share a lot of stories about each species. Some were success stories and others were absolute heart breakers. I asked another 754 questions and she answered every one of them from the heart.

Backing up just a bit, my wife had asked me if I was bring home any frogs. ABSOLUTELY NOT, HONEY ! It will be at least another few weeks. 

I thought about this conversation as I oohed and awed over them all. 

Here are a couple of pics:




























In closing, I would like to thank Lisa for inviting me in to her home and sharing absolutely everything. A day later I am still in awe of the opportunity. It was such a unique learning experience. I think I am most impressed that shared both triumphs and tragedies. That, in my mind, makes her one heck of a frogger.

Lisa is interesting as she never intended to have so many frogs. She remains a hobbyist in the purest sense and is clearly a victim of her own success.

I also think that it is important to remind ouselves that we ask a lot from our veterans here. It is critical that we go out of our way to sincerely thank all of those here that contribute. Without them, the road to successful PDF care would be frought with constant peril.

Finally, please send a PM to Chesney if you enjoyed this write up or learned something. I still think that it was a very big deal that she did this for me. Please let her know that she rocks for giving we newbies a glimpse of where our potential future in frogging lies.

Frog On people. Frog On !


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## kate801 (Jul 7, 2011)

I love this. Thank you!


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

deboardfam said:


> Subscribed... love the breakdown!


I really really enjoyed it every minute of it. I even got invited back so I'll try and pick up some additional tidbits.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

BethInAK said:


> Thank you so much Zoomie, and Lisa!!
> I am in awe of ALL THOSE TADPOLES!!
> and I'm dying to know what happens when there is a legger? Does it just stay in the tupperware?


Read on !

No need to thank me. It was all Lisa for not only being kind enough to invite me in to her home, but agreeing let me me run amuck and wirte about all of it.


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## Owl-man (Feb 14, 2011)

Fantastic Post! Wish I was also there.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

WendySHall said:


> This is wonderful! I've been admiring Lisa's website for quite some time and it's awesome that you are providing this look at "a day in the life" of how she operates. If I could thank you a million times, I would!


Shhh ! Icks nay on the ebsite way.  Trying to keep this all about the process. 

Seriously, shoot her a PM and thank her so she knows that it was worth letting an idiot in to her home.


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## A&K Reptiles (Jul 22, 2011)

Wow That Is some frog room. Nice writeup! 

A&K Reptiles
[email protected]
(607)-372-4195


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

You are being far too kind John. I think I enjoyed your visit way more than you. I was in stitches all day long. I really appreciate you helping me out. With most of my frog chores caught up, I was able to sit back and enjoy watching the frogs most of the day today. You are truly one of a kind. Your eagerness to learn everything possible about darts and their husbandry will be the reason you succeed in this hobby. 

Lisa

BTW, I have already started the chore list for the next visit and those two 30g tanks in the garage are on it! Bwahahahaha!


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## Darts15 (Jun 5, 2011)

Wow. I'm jealous


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

I am really impressed with the level of enthusiasm shown as well as the ability to put into print this story that makes the reader wanting more, a real talent! Bill


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks to you both John and Lisa - fantastic thread and opportunity to share w the community.


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## morphman (May 20, 2011)

Thank you very much for sharing this experience. As a newwbie myself I can tell you that finding this post was like finding a little treasure. The only downside is I didn't want it to stop 

I wish you both continued success.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Great write up Zoomie.....No better research then getting your hand dirty doing it.


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## Bonobo (Jun 7, 2009)

Man.. very jelly! Thank you both for sharing..


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

Fantastic post!

I have to say that I'm really impressed with how clean and organized Chesney's frog room is. The whole process of seems very professional and very well thought out. Kudos all around! If I ever find myself in need of some of the Tinc morphs she breeds I'll definitely be buying from her.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Cool thread - makes me glad my frogs feed and take care of their own tads


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

Wow ! Lots of reads ! That is fantastic. Glad that a number of members found it as interesting as I did. 

As stupid as this sounds, I feel empowered from the perspective that if and when I am ever fortunate enough to find eggs, I wont go in to full freak out. OK, I will still freak out, but I will at least know what needs to be done to have a shot a rearing.

I'll post up again from the next trip and takes lots of pics again. I'm going to keep going over to Lisa's until she throws me out for good.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

chesney said:


> You are being far too kind John. I think I enjoyed your visit way more than you. I was in stitches all day long. I really appreciate you helping me out. With most of my frog chores caught up, I was able to sit back and enjoy watching the frogs most of the day today. You are truly one of a kind. Your eagerness to learn everything possible about darts and their husbandry will be the reason you succeed in this hobby.
> 
> Lisa
> 
> BTW, I have already started the chore list for the next visit and those two 30g tanks in the garage are on it! Bwahahahaha!


Awe, very nice of you to say, but trust me, I got the better deal. Huge thanks again for not only inviting me in to your home, but allowing me to share everything with the members here. I know you don't think it's a big deal. TO me (and clearly some of our members here), it was huge !

Get that chore list going. Doing the 30's will be great as I am almost certainly heading for clay with the Terribilis tank. I can work out all my mistakes on your tanks ! 

Woohoo ! Round Two !


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## Molch (Jul 15, 2011)

I' m in deep awe of this Lisa person. 
Is she human? She must be like Hermione Granger in Harry Potter 3, ya know, where she has that time turner and can go back to do the last hour over again to take, say, ancient runes and divination at the same time, like there was two of her. 

I get overwhelmed by the thought of having just ONE (1) dart frog tank, what with all the thingamadings and gidgety-gadgets you need..........but to have a million like her....oi. I would need about 50 hrs in the day to do all of that.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

If she isn't human, then she is the best example of a robot that I have ever seen! 

I didn't even mention all of her other critters outside of frogs. Personally, I think she should change her forum name to Barnyard Lisa.

Upon seeing all those tad cups and froglet boxes, it stressed me out so bad that I couldn't catch my breath. In the end though, it all seemed managable, although it does take someone with true passion to do this. I love frogs but I would never aim to get to this level in frogging.

I think that there are far more 'Lisas' here than we really think there are.

Through a unique set of circumstances, a member here had to let go of a proven pair of Leucs that have only recently started breeding. I'll pick them up Saturday. I sure hope I can can them settled in and back to getting their groove on.

My wife and I are heading back over there Saturday. If anyone wants me to ask any questions or take aditional pictures of something, please let me know.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Very good thread Zoomie. Thanks to you and Lisa both for providing this great write up.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

a wonderful thing to get a glimpse of a real stockman(sorry Lisa but person doesn't ring the same, your awsome ) from a beginners eye.Zoomie ...superbly written thankyou also a total privalage to read.
Most entralling dart stuff for a while for me
so ya both rock
well done guys
might even go back and do it all again
thankyou
Stu
ps Lisa one day,i'll have enough courage to suck those eggs too,but no way do i have those skills yet,when you do stockmanship of this level daily you really don't realise how much you know,this shows it in spades....


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

Great write up Zoomie! 

I always enjoy reading the, usually small, tidbits of information concerning the nuts and bolts (the this is how I do it) systems that work for the larger breeders. Lisa has always been high on my list since of references since I started. 

So, thanks Lisa for what you do and Zoomie for lifting up the proverbial curtain on one of our favorite breeders!


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Great thread Zoomie. Very insightful and informative. This is definitely in my top 10 dendroboard threads.


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

Thanks Doug. Still amazed at how much I learned.


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## FoxHound (Oct 7, 2011)

Super awesome post! I read it twice and I think I am about to go and read it a third time!  Super nice work! 

Very Sincerely,
-_FoxHound_


P.S. I rated it excellent! (Probably because there is no near perfection rating  )


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

FoxHound said:


> Super awesome post! I read it twice and I think I am about to go and read it a third time!  Super nice work!
> 
> Very Sincerely,
> -_FoxHound_
> ...


Thank you FoxHound. I had no idea how important all this info was until a came last month and found my first eggs. While I still freaked out, I was far more comfortable with the process since I had been throught.

I willl be forever in Lisa's debt for the Tadpole Bootcamp.


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## bobrez (Sep 10, 2011)

Awesome post thanks for the link. The setup and care for these little guys is
amazing. I'm bookmarking to read again an again 
ps hoping for a part 2


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