# Opinions on petco darts?



## LeftyGinger (Sep 28, 2016)

Hello everyone,

After having my vivarium for over year I finally bought a dart. I didn't plan on buying a frog but I went to Petco to get my husky some treats and noticed they had a powder blue Tinc. I didn't want to leave him there to be bought by someone who isn't knowledgable enough to properly care for a dart frog or have him die at the store so I bought him. Although he is pretty skinny and rather small, I think with some TLC he will thrive. The humidity in his tank was <80 and the temp was 70°F<T<80°F(The lady who helped me seemed to truly love reptiles and amphibians and was keeping decent care of their stock). I know that Petco has a rocky reputation regarding all reptiles and I just wanted to know what the general opinion is among dart frog keepers. What are your opinions on Petco darts and Petco's place in the dart keeping hobby? I added some pictures, there is some discoloration on his head which must've happened when moving him from his enclosure at petco to the transport container.

https://i.sli.mg/1hwOGe.jpg


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

A quick use of the search function came up with these, they should give you a fair representation of some of the feelings of members here on this topic:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/244106-petco-selling-darts-now.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/219226-hybrids-petco.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/213466-good-bad-petco.html


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

Its looks like that frog is possibly in a vivarium already? Did you not quarantine it first?


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## LeftyGinger (Sep 28, 2016)

No I did not. I didn't plan on buying a frog nor do I have separate enclosure for quarantine. He is the only frog in my vivarium and I will keep a close eye on things.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

A plastic sterilite-type quarantine container would've only cost you a few dollars, much less than those over-priced sickly looking Petco tincs...

Even if its your only frog, if its sick it could contaminate your viv. You'd have to tear down and scrap the stuff in your viv completely, then clean/disinfect your tank and start over.


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## LeftyGinger (Sep 28, 2016)

Looks like I already rolled the dice. Also I bought my frog for less than what it would cost to buy one from any online dealer I have seen. If worst comes to worst I rebuild, but thats not why I posted this thread.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

You "saved" a frog. They "sold" a frog.

They see sales, they'll just replace the frog they sold.

Be ready to do "save" another one next week.

s


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## LeftyGinger (Sep 28, 2016)

You're 100% right. I was conflicted about buying from petco and that's why I posted this thread. I wanted more information about petco and their suppliers and other dart keepers opinions on petcos place in the hobby. I have been to privately owned pet stores where they keep their animals in way worse conditions than my local petco. As I stated the lady in charge of the reptiles really does care about them and seemed to be trying her hardest to make sure they are all cared for to the best of her ability.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

I'm just giving my opinion, like you asked. Personally, I wouldn't buy those frogs, period. If I had to have one for some odd reason, I would certainly quarantine it and get it checked out before it ever went anywhere near a permanent viv or the rest of my collection. The Petco near me sells (what are often mystery morphs of) tincs and auratus, and some leucs for up to $60 depending on the type of frog. I would much rather pay less than those prices (not including shipping of course) for froglets that come from respected breeders and vendors, that are likely to be healthy and know of their lineage.


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## eek_420 (Jun 27, 2016)

I agree depends on the petco store I've been in several and some of the people that work there really cater to the animals and others just do what they think they have to I've seen several different darts in the same small tank with the humidity down to 30% and when I asked them why is it so low got told they have a set time to mist the tanks yada yada yada at one store and when you go to a different store and notice something similar and ask they address the issue right away so it goes by the store general managers ideal on how the animals care should be handled all thou I have found a breeder that's top notch and have been getting my frogs from them if they have what im looking for at the time prices my be close to pet store prices but the frogs are truely outstanding and if you have any ?s they always are happy to help


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## LeftyGinger (Sep 28, 2016)

What size of quarantine tank is appropriate and how should I set up the substrate?(For future use)


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## eek_420 (Jun 27, 2016)

I use a 10 gallon tank with a couple plants and a hid for them nothing spectacular I've heard some people use just a plastic shoe tote with some moss and a hid


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## parrothed43 (Jun 22, 2016)

Saw a green and black Auratus froglet at the local Petco last week for $50. Skinny, sitting low in a shallow water bowl. In the coco fiber substrate were dead crickets close to 1/2 inch (more than half the size if the frog itself). I let the guy working there know it will not eat them. He said they also throw in some fruit flies. I asked if they had any others to which he said they had a few more they already sold. Don't know if I believe that. I might have paid $10 to take it home and hope to get it into better shape in a quarantine tank. He definitely didn't care if the poor little thing lived or died as long as they had a chance to sell it for $50.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

LeftyGinger said:


> What size of quarantine tank is appropriate and how should I set up the substrate?(For future use)


Different people do it differently, but I usually use plastic sterilite-style containers with dimensions similar to 5.5 or 10 gallons tanks depending on the frog's size, age, type, etc. Some sphagnum moss, a little spare leaf litter, and some pothos clippings are usually good enough.


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## Jarhead_2016 (Jan 7, 2010)

Apart from being horribly thin, Petco darts seem to always be either mislabled or hybrids. I always try to make a point to inform the employees at my local store of their proper requirements when i go in for saltwater supplies. However my local store has actually listened and the frogs there seem to be doing much better. I stop in about once a week so i usually see the same animals over and over again. I however will never buy frogs from these stores.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

The only thing I've noticed about the darts at Petco is they seem to be kept in lower humidity tanks than they should be, based on the less than accurate petco hydrometer in the tank (they are often around 50%). The frogs are always sitting in the water dish. 

Do they look thin? maybe compared to the super overfed frogs people are used to seeing int he hobby. Have I seen an emaciated one, no I haven't, at least not yet. I don't know if they are mixed morph frogs or not and I doubt someone could honestly typically tell for sure if a frog is a mixed morph or not. Mixed species probably. But I haven't seen any that even come close to looking like a mixed morph. Doesn't mean they aren't, I'm just saying one doesn't know. Nearly every time someone on here asks what morph something is, they often get the same answer, which is you can't know for sure.

Whether you bought the frog or not, Petco is going to keep selling them. It's like plants at lowes or home depot. Do they take good care of all their stock, no. do a lot die, yes. does that stop them from selling them no. I get the point that if no one buys them they might stop. But there are clearly enough people buying them that the chain is going to keep selling them even if there is a high mortality. They've been selling them for a few years now and I've seen them in every Petco I've visited from FL to CA. 

If it's the only frog in the viv so be it. A quarantine isn't going to protect it or you or the viv from everything out there. So since the frog is already in there I wouldn't worry about it at this point.

At the end of the day, it comes down to do you like the frog you got? If so, just try and take good care of it and enjoy it for what it is. A single frog viv.

Mike


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

tardis101 said:


> The only thing I've noticed about the darts at Petco is they seem to be kept in lower humidity tanks than they should be, based on the less than accurate petco hydrometer in the tank (they are often around 50%). The frogs are always sitting in the water dish.
> 
> Do they look thin? maybe compared to the super overfed frogs people are used to seeing int he hobby. Have I seen an emaciated one, no I haven't, at least not yet. I don't know if they are mixed morph frogs or not and I doubt someone could honestly typically tell for sure if a frog is a mixed morph or not. Mixed species probably. But I haven't seen any that even come close to looking like a mixed morph. Doesn't mean they aren't, I'm just saying one doesn't know. Nearly every time someone on here asks what morph something is, they often get the same answer, which is you can't know for sure.


Not only have I seen emaciated ones, but I've seen _dead_ ones (on three different occasions). I think the emaciated frogs likely result from what was touched upon by parrothed43, with store employees attempting to feed out crickets that are too large for the frogs to eat...coupled with what you mentioned about the subpar humidity levels. I agree that you can't know what morph you're getting: you see an auratus froglet, its green and black, but you have no idea what morph or locale it could be. Same goes for the tincs...you see a blue/yellow/black froglet that could be any one of several different tinc morphs. Hell, the D. leucomelas are also erroneously listed as _Bumblebee toads_ (Melanophryniscus sp.) on the price tag at this particular store near me.




tardis101 said:


> If it's the only frog in the viv so be it. A quarantine isn't going to protect it or you or the viv from everything out there. So since the frog is already in there I wouldn't worry about it at this point.


 Obviously, quarantine is now irrelevant in this particular situation; the OP asked for future use. 
Its best to avoid possibly introducing pathogens to a viv, one that may have taken a lot of time/money/effort to create.


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## drjtnation (Dec 25, 2013)

I heard they were coming to Petco and I was dreading it. I'm a vet and we have an arrangement to handle their medical issues. I already see about a million beardies a year.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Ginja (Mar 9, 2015)

JPP said:


> Not only have I seen emaciated ones, but I've seen _dead_ ones (on three different occasions). I think the emaciated frogs likely result from what was touched upon by parrothed43, with store employees attempting to feed out crickets that are too large for the frogs to eat...coupled with what you mentioned about the subpar humidity levels. I agree that you can't know what morph you're getting: you see an auratus froglet, its green and black, but you have no idea what morph or locale it could be. Same goes for the tincs...you see a blue/yellow/black froglet that could be any one of several different tinc morphs. Hell, the D. leucomelas are also erroneously listed as _Bumblebee toads_ (Melanophryniscus sp.) on the price tag at this particular store near me.
> 
> 
> Obviously, quarantine is now irrelevant in this particular situation; the OP asked for future use.
> Its best to avoid possibly introducing pathogens to a viv, one that may have taken a lot of time/money/effort to create.


I'm the OP I forgot I had made this account when I first built my Viv so my other account was taken down(really confused me at first since I don't use that email anymore). I contacted petco and they're supposed to get back to me on the lineage or supplier of my frog. 

Who do you recommend for testing of various parasites and infections?

Also if it turns out that my frog is some kind of designer morph(crossing my fingers that it's not) I will make sure to keep it away from any pure lines.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Ginja (Mar 9, 2015)

Here is a follow up to my experience(As stated earlier I am the OP and I forgot that I made this account). 

Petco called me yesterday and they contacted their buyer and assured me that my frog didn't come from anywhere that breeds hybrids. The buyer (I think it's just for my local stores) only buys from small operations and wouldn't support anyone who breeds frankenfrogs. While I will take anything from petco with a grain of salt it was reassuring that they actually took the time to call me and give me a real answer instead of a vague email or just ignoring me all together.


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## HeffaMarie (Mar 30, 2020)

I know it's not a popular opinion...but the Petco I use has been awesome! They don't keep them in store but will order from small breeders they use regularly and they give you a warranty on the animals. One of the managers at this location has frogs of her own and another associate used to keep darts. All of the staff have been awesome and helpful...but that's one specific store. Anyway, I have four total I've gotten from this location. Same price I've seen on all the sites I've checked. They call me the minute my frog arrives and it comes straight home without them ever creating a habitat. They didn't seem scrawny but they were tiny/very young. All four are thriving and it looks like I might have a pair of blues! 

I could tell they didn't get a lot of requests for them because ALL of the staff got excited when I got them and they all ask a thousand questions any time I come in. Everyone's experience is different.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm glad you think you're getting good animals, but the last couple times someone has made this sort of claim it turned out to based in, uh, inaccuracies. Our stance here isn't 'opinion', it is a synthesis of the relevant facts. 

I'm pretty sure that there are no "small breeders" providing animals directly to this business. Recently this came up and we tracked the supply chain down to one of the national wholesalers. And "used to keep darts" is often code for "tried it once and failed", regardless of how much a speaker tries to put a positive spin on their own past activities (we all do this to greater or lesser degrees).

On animal warranties: the markup on animals there is pretty high, just like it is on the supplies. Big businesses can afford to replace some animals that keepers have killed in order to continue to get that keeper's business on supplies. Very few of us here would consider that a good business model when it comes to animals. No one who breeds animals for purposes other than monetary profit will give you a "warranty"; most will guarantee you're sold a healthy animal, but once it is out of the breeder's care it is up to the keeper to keep it well. A warranty is good for a car or kitchen appliance that has no value other than monetary; to imply that an animal is simply another monetized product strikes many of us as, well, disrespectful to put it mildly.

Another problem with national pet chains is that they have decimated the landscape of the retail pet trade -- there are no 'mom and pop' stores left to speak of. So, even if one location might seem to be a good thing, the whole business model -- using animals as a corporate money-maker -- is not laudable. 

Really, I'm glad you have had a good experience so far. I sincerely hope it continues (i.e. I hope your frogs do well). I also hope that you realize that any true success you've had at that store is accidental, and that there are more reliable ways to ensure success in this hobby.

And, welcome to DB! 



HeffaMarie said:


> I know it's not a popular opinion...but the Petco I use has been awesome! They don't keep them in store but will order from small breeders they use regularly and they give you a warranty on the animals. One of the managers at this location has frogs of her own and another associate used to keep darts. All of the staff have been awesome and helpful...but that's one specific store. Anyway, I have four total I've gotten from this location. Same price I've seen on all the sites I've checked. They call me the minute my frog arrives and it comes straight home without them ever creating a habitat. They didn't seem scrawny but they were tiny/very young. All four are thriving and it looks like I might have a pair of blues!
> 
> I could tell they didn't get a lot of requests for them because ALL of the staff got excited when I got them and they all ask a thousand questions any time I come in. Everyone's experience is different.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

@Ginja hasn't been here in over three years, but here are some of their posts that were made shortly after the one in this thread. The second one below is the last one @Ginja posted before leaving DB. Readers can draw their own conclusions.



Ginja said:


> I was recommended a Veterinarian who cannot help me over the internet. Does anyone know of a good amphibian veterinarian in the Iowa-Nebraska-Kansas area?





Ginja said:


> I know a thing or two about this. I started the thread that was linked earlier in this thread. My frog was really skinny when I got him but I saw him in the store when getting some treats for my pup and I had been planning on getting a dart frog for over a year and had everything set up to do so. I decided to buy a powder blue tinc from my local petco and he was super skinny. I ended up contacting petco to try and find out the lineage of my frog to make sure I didn't inadvertently support a supplier who breeds hybrids and they did end up calling me personally but I didn't get a straight answer except for an assurance that my frog wasn't a hybrid. I don't regret my decision but I also won't be buying another frog from petco. I would much rather buy from people on this forum and support this hobby in the most responsible manner possible instead of just giving petco more money.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

> They call me the minute my frog arrives and it comes straight home without them ever creating a habitat.


There is something sad/scary/funny/head in hands all rolled up into one about this. 

Indeed, its preferable to the alternative.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Petco -- no
petco -- no
petco -- no
petco -- no
petco -- no
petco -- no
petco -- no
petco -- no


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