# Euro style vivariums soon to be available to all!



## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

After a lot of leg work I have convinced the owner of a aquarium manufacturing business to start making euro style vivs (and a WHOLE bunch of other good stuff) that are geared for the frog hobby. The prototype(s) vivs are getting built next week so I will keep everyone informed on the progress of everything.

And no need to worry about longevity, this is a aquarium manufacture that has been in business for 30 years and has 3.5 million in sales annually. So... Exo and zoo-med better watch out...the winds of change are blowing! 

Also, he supplies pet stores across the country already with aquariums so these will be available nation wide.


Stay tuned folks!

Casper


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## Josh_Bahr (Oct 17, 2011)

I am super excited!!!! Please do keep us informed. Got an ETA? I was gonna start building some new tanks, but I just may have to wait...


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Will these be hand crafted in the tradition of Sam Adams? Anyway what's the name of the manufacturer I would love to give my 2 local pet shops a heads up?


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## Vinnner (Oct 1, 2010)

This is awesome news as I am expanding to another rack and would love to be able to just buy a viv already made instead of attempting to frankenstein my own.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

The manufacture is Dutch Aquarium Systems. 
Pet Shop Animal Displays Fish Shop Units Display Aquariums Pet Store Fixtures Pet Store Enclosures

No e.t.a. yet, but I will have more news on the progress in less that a week.


Casper


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If their website is any indication, this looks very promising


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sure whatever they make will be a good product - great company! I bought my first DAS equipment in 1988 (first gen mini reef leveraging anaerobic bacteria and protein skimmer). No surprise they are still in biz after all these years.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Click on the natures way on the upper left to see some of their backgrounds and a kick ass fake stump. 

The best thing is that I just went to him about making me some vert kits and was going to throw it out there that nobody really mass produces dart specific vivs and there would be a good market for them. He sat back in his chair for a minute then said the vert kit was on hold, and now lets design a whole viv(s)... I must admit my heart skipped a beat. Hell I'm still floating on cloud 9....

So stay tuned for A LOT of new vivs and products geared for the frog hobby. 


Casper


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Sounds like a great project! Any idea about distribution in Canada?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

I'm sure they will make it across the border to the north. 

Casper


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## Alegre323 (Sep 2, 2011)

Subscribed! Now lets get these cracking lol

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Okay...I'll bite...for us noobs and idiots (am not revealing which one am I)...what are the advantages of the Euro Style over Exos???


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Exo Terras are basically cheaply executed Euro Vivs (not necessarily always cheaply priced though).

s


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

not to be a nag...but in an effort to learn...can ya be just a little more specific?? Is there a difference in design that makes them better??


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Sliding glass doors, better vent system, f.f. proof, no need to get glass cut for the top, drain system incorporated, and better glass. It will be a total plug and play, no modifications needed.

Casper


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Judy S said:


> not to be a nag...but in an effort to learn...can ya be just a little more specific?? Is there a difference in design that makes them better??


Exo Terra tanks have gaps everywhere, which means tons of escaped fruit flies. The are made with numerous cheap plastic parts that will wear out relatively quickly, or break off completely. The tops are made entirely of mesh and need to be modified for our purposes. And in my opinion, all the plastic parts and joints dont make for a clean looking end result, especially if the tank isnt sitting inside a cabinet or professional racking system. The good thing about exos is that they are front opening, and can be found pretty much anywhere.

Euro tanks are pretty much perfect for froggers needs. They fill all the requirments without adding anything fancy that might fail over time. The bad part about them is they are very difficult to find, and most likely need to be custom made.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Whats the price point going to be? Are they going to be compatible to exos?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

GRIMM said:


> Euro tanks are pretty much perfect for froggers needs. They fill all the requirments without adding anything fancy that might fail over time. The bad part about them is they are very difficult to find, and most likely need to be custom made.


Soon they will be easy to find! Grin!! 

Casper


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

NathanB said:


> Whats the price point going to be? Are they going to be compatible to exos?


Not sure yet. Once the prototype(s) are done I will know more.

Casper


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Judy S said:


> not to be a nag...but in an effort to learn...can ya be just a little more specific?? Is there a difference in design that makes them better??


I may be wrong, but this is what I think of when somebody mentions a "EURO" style viv.









Two vents, one at the bottom and one at the top, for air flow without the use of fans.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Same here Gary. Usually the vent is further from the front, nearer the middle or back of the viv. Often times there is also a curved bracing to support the sliding glass doors.

I know Protean Terrariums makes a Euro Style viv and Cascade Vivarium Builders makes a custom viv as well, but as far as I know they do not do Euro-style venting.

I am also interested to know a retail price point.


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## Raf (Feb 20, 2010)

Nice to hear they are going to available for you guys.
Those vivs are great!


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Cant wait


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Sounds really good...now that I've made all these conversions...anyone want to buy pristine 20G conversions??? About...about...how much will these go for?? Love the idea about not having to install fans...and if anyone has good ideas of how to deal with the Exos having "gaps"...please give some advice...The tops of the ones I have I made into two pieces...the back piece a strip of Lexan...then a living hinge, and then the front piece out of glass...the heck with the screen that the Exo came with...Am looking forward to more info...subscribed...


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

Very interested to see how these will shake out. Subscribed.


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

I don’t see how this will be available to all; it seems to me that this company is a niche company that sells custom display setups. How are they going to distribute these nation wide so we can all buy them? or is it going to be like some of the other custom viv builders out there now. I have never seen their products in petco, petsmart etc. 

I have a cousin that works for a similar company that provides all of the habitats for petco, they do not sell their products to the public.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

bsr8129 said:


> I don’t see how this will be available to all; it seems to me that this company is a niche company that sells custom display setups. How are they going to distribute these nation wide so we can all buy them? or is it going to be like some of the other custom viv builders out there now. I have never seen their products in petco, petsmart etc.
> 
> I have a cousin that works for a similar company that provides all of the habitats for petco, they do not sell their products to the public.


You need to investigate their website a little more. They don't just do petshop displays. In fact it looks like they are already doing specialized tanks, just probably a little more snazzy than what we need.
http://www.petstorefixtures.com/GoNaturesWayTerrariums.html

Click across the tabs on the top of the page to see some of the other tanks they offer.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

What he said...^^^

Casper


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Just got of the phone with the owner of D A S and final design(s) are all drawn up and the building of the prototypes will be starting in the next few days. I will also be meeting with him on Monday again to see how everything is moving along and to discus more products to bring into the dart frog hobby. 

I must say that he is really excited about the vivs, more than me I think! According to him, he was building these types of vivs 30+ years ago in Holland. Natural vivariums are his original passion, so he is excited as all hell about this.

More to come...

Casper


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm really excited about this. I just broke down and bought a 36x18x36 exo as it was the closest "large" viv that is available without modifying (other than the usual).


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

phender said:


> You need to investigate their website a little more. They don't just do petshop displays. In fact it looks like they are already doing specialized tanks, just probably a little more snazzy than what we need.
> GoNaturesWayTerrariums
> 
> Click across the tabs on the top of the page to see some of the other tanks they offer.


I agree with you they do have nice setups on thier page. But I don't see any place to buy them or a price sheet. They seem off their website to be a specialty shop and not selling to the general public.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

bsr8129 said:


> I agree with you they do have nice setups on thier page. But I don't see any place to buy them or a price sheet. They seem off their website to be a specialty shop and not selling to the general public.



There is a lot more to this company than you see on their web page(s). He already sells to pet shops all over the country, and not just aquariums. If you have ever been in the fish hobby (salt or fresh) you have already bought his products, you just didn't know.

But hay, you don't have to believe me... but just be ready for your jaw to hit the floor when you see whats coming...


Casper


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

it still has to be cheap or it wont really matter. I dont see how these are going to be as cheap as exos and the like


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

One thing your forgetting, how much do you have spend on said exo or z-med to meet the husbandry needed for darts? Then throw in modifications to f.f. proof it. Then mods to drain it. And don't forget all the hing problems. Or the broken glass.

So if you want cheap you already have it, in more ways then one...

I myself will always go with a better product over cheap... every time.


Casper


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Do you remember river tanks? Everyone wanted one till they saw the price. Then they were discontinued for lack of sales.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

As stated before, final price(s) has yet to be determined. All of this is going to take time, there is lot that goes into launching a new product(s). So please be patient, all I'm trying to do is let people know that new and better options will soon be available. 

Casper


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

What about incorporating access for a fogger and a fan system?


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

What do you mean Kris? Something more than just having drilled holes?

When I bought custom tanks it was about $140 for a roughly 40 gallon viv with euro venting and 2 holes. I'm just waiting on a retail price to see about these.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

bsr8129 said:


> I agree with you they do have nice setups on thier page. But I don't see any place to buy them or a price sheet. They seem off their website to be a specialty shop and not selling to the general public.


You are right they don't seem to sell to the general public, but neither does All-Glass or Vision or Sea Clear or any of the others that are popular here in SoCal. You have to order them through your Local Fish Store. I don't see the DAS tanks here, but from what I can tell from reef bulletin boards, they have a presence in other parts of the country.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Not sure if you would need fans with euro vents. But... a fan system that could be put over the top vent, to up the humidity while still allowing air movement, that may just work! I can see it as an add-on. The top will also have holes pre-drilled and plugged for misters and foggers.

Casper


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## Ulisesfrb (Dec 8, 2008)

I'm very interested in these as well. So no idea on the prices? Not even a range?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Just a little hint on the first size prototype to be built. 18 wide 18 deep 36 tall. Thumbs and pums in mind for this 1.

Casper


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Ulisesfrb said:


> I'm very interested in these as well. So no idea on the prices? Not even a range?



Will know more Monday hopefully.

Casper


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

Very interesting dimensions! Part of why I collect the smaller frogs is because they utilize more of the vivarium and interact more with the entire environment up high and low. Very exciting!  The only problem they might run into is those dimensions run close to or exceed the maximum shipping size allowed by USPS. In my experience thus far anyway... That's definitely something they'll want to consider if they plan on selling to consumers directly.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

My guess is that freight shipping would be the best method for shipping more than one. I have more faith in tanks that are boxed up and palletized than the poor SOB in the FedEx/UPS truck. I know a really good shipping guy/company for those of you who would be interested in having an A+ fellow in your rolodex, er I mean cell phone contact list


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## Bonobo (Jun 7, 2009)

Ghost vivs said:


> Just a little hint on the first size prototype to be built. 18 wide 18 deep 36 tall. Thumbs and pums in mind for this 1.
> 
> Casper


ohhhh! Sign me up for a bunch of those!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

what size do you recommend for Terriblis?? They are on my want list and I'll start saving for the new tanks starting today...have been reluctant to drill, etc. so look forward to this design..


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

Sounds like a great addition to the PDF "equipment" choices. Since you've hooked up with such a willing manufacturer, consider polling the audience to hear what sizes and features would be most desirable.

A couple things to consider with dimensions is how they're going to be racked. Four foot racks realistically are 45" between poles and are typically 18" and sometimes 24" deep. With the 45" width, divide by two, three, or four, to arrive at an integer number of tanks. Tanks that marry up to a custom racking system is another idea, where users could string together as many tanks as they want to meet their available space.

Features like predrilled head misting holes, drains, provisions for fans, place for a label/placard, built in pond features, ect are a plus, and it sounds like these are already being considered. 

Another consideration is to offer the tanks at a reduced cost as kits. They're easier and less risky to ship that way, and many people would be happy to DIY to save $$.


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

Judy S said:


> what size do you recommend for Terriblis?? They are on my want list and I'll start saving for the new tanks starting today...have been reluctant to drill, etc. so look forward to this design..


Judy, 

Think big! Big tanks, big plants. Terribilis are mostly ground dwelling but do climb when young, mating, eating, hunting for territory. Group size matters too, as they typically form a pecking order, with a dominant male running the show. A group of terribilis will also pound the crud out of non-sturdy plants. 

All that said, I'd recommend. no less than one square foot of ground space per frog with at least one foot of real height. More would be better, especially height wise.

Keep the groups small. Try forming 1.2 trios where possible. Both sexes call, but the males are louder. Behavior is a big factor on determining sex. Lesser males in a group will often not call.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

I've always wanted to see a 36x36x36 tank, it would be amazing. 200 gallon cube


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm a novice i live in good old blighty,this design i build myself,i've always been perplexed by you guys not having these,in so many ways your hobby is so much furthur on than ours.
Any way some thoughts,the top vent is situated towards the back around 2/3rds ,this way air is drawn through most of the viv,creating areas of,higher and lower humidity,much can be tweeked by 2 key steps regarding humidity,one of these is mesh size,we use 0.4mm,and secondly the size of the top vent,a few cms here can make a viv much more humid or less so depending on species requirements,I'm not sure whether your design will incorperate a false glass floor Casper,but if so be sure that the near side to the front is above your drainset,so that is drains properly,our viv floors stay pretty dry not a soaking mess,they don't need to be wet because the design incorperates high humidity in its set up, we actually make the slope slightly steeper than the normal design for just a bit more free draining.Another little thing i am playing with,is incoperating a peice of uvb passing glass at the back top,behind the vent,so allowing 3 different levels of uvb to the frogs for those that wish this lighting for their charges,basically giving the frogs the choice to self regulate,ours is called optiwhite i think yours starfire,a low iron glass. I know that you guys will soon be able to benefit from arcadias lighting range,even though uvb is not yet widely used over there at present,there products are very good. 
Casper,i have posted this in an effort to wish you well on your journey to bring these vivs to your countymen,as i said from the off i'm a novice i post on these forums partly to pay back for the help given and also to learn.This viv design just works,i did much reserch,there is no better more simple design for our beloved charges that i have yet found,and i looked real real hard,hand on heart i can say there is going to be alot of very happy dart frogs when they get their new tanks over there in the big ol USA,i hope this hasn't come over as arrogant,just there might be one tiny thing that i have learn't that you guys might just, not have considered,as i stumble along with our recycled glass,vivs etc (see our room thread)
i wish you luck sir,
regards
Stu


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## NickJR (Jul 28, 2011)

would buy one today if they were available


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

The owner of DAS just left my place and all went great. The design is looking great! It will have a hidden drain system with a shutoff and a drain hose, all you will need is a bucket. A one piece sliding front glass that will be lockable. Yes I said it...a one piece front glass. A fan system. A light system and more. I will be starting some polls in the next few days for him about features on the vivs, backgrounds, fake rocks, water features and more. He wants a lot of feedback on what people want. He wants to bring a lot of new stuff into this hobby with all of YOUR input. This way EVERYONE can have input on advancing this hobby!


A lot more to come ...

Casper

P.S. I showed him this forum, so he will be reading this. So everyone who likes these ideas speak up!


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

You know what i've always wanted to see? A hood that covers the entire top that looks really sleek and has space for those ugly high powered DIY CFL fixtures and has tons of ways to blow heat out with fans and other stuff like that.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Neontra said:


> You know what i've always wanted to see? A hood that covers the entire top that looks really sleek and has space for those ugly high powered DIY CFL fixtures and has tons of ways to blow heat out with fans and other stuff like that.




The hood is made for CFL bulbs but will only cover 1/2 of it, don't want to cover up the top vent. But that's a good idea for a stand alone light.

Casper


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## NickJR (Jul 28, 2011)

Everything i read it has sounds great. My only request is , fly proof fly proof fly proof as much as possible. Second have a option without vents or adjustable vents to keep up humidity. Other than that cant wait.

also what could been very very cool a add on option is a glass pre made removeable egg crate bottom with screen attached. I would definitly spend my money on a perfect fit one for the tank. You could even make options for ones cut for pools. Or if they want custom dont add on and make it urself lol.




Ghost vivs said:


> The owner of DAS just left my place and all went great. The design is looking great! It will have a hidden drain system with a shutoff and a drain hose, all you will need is a bucket. A one piece sliding front glass that will be lockable. Yes I said it...a one piece front glass. A fan system. A light system and more. I will be starting some polls in the next few days for him about features on the vivs, backgrounds, fake rocks, water features and more. He wants a lot of feedback on what people want. He wants to bring a lot of new stuff into this hobby with all of YOUR input. This way EVERYONE can have input on advancing this hobby!
> 
> 
> A lot more to come ...
> ...




Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

The vents will be adjustable and yes on the fly proof. It will also have a false bottom built in.
One that is frog safe! No toxins that leach out over time like egg crate.

Casper


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Hey, it's Monday, where's the price.


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

Ghost vivs said:


> The vents will be adjustable...


Sounds great. Especially with the drain, ability for fans, and what I quoted above!

Might I also add (and I'm sure it would probably be this way but) to make the false bottom so it can be taken out easily for repairs and or replaced by a customized false bottom made by the owner if he/she so chooses. 

Also if we talk hoods might I also suggest a couple blue LED lights for night lighting.

And, some access point for those who might run wire in for additional fans or water features.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

With one pane of glass for the door, how will it open if on a rack system and two other identical tanks are next to it?


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## BPwhiteheat (Jan 21, 2011)

I want to see a pic of what they will look like. Or is like a standard euro viv?


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## Josh_Bahr (Oct 17, 2011)

In addition to what everyone else has said (FF proof, drain, variable venting, convenient sizing), the biggest deciding factor is going to come down to one thing.........price. I'm willing to forgo a LOT of things (pre-made false bottom, custom lighting, etc) for something that is affordable. I'd be willing to spend more than an exo-terra for one, but not significantly more. Additionally, it would be awesome to replace each one of my tanks with something that is consistent. But if it's too expensive for that to be feasible (at least over time), then I may not bother. 

To me, the appeal of these vivs is three-fold, they are functional, visually appealing, and convenient. I can make enclosures that are functional, easy. I can make enclosures that are visually appealing, but it would be a pain and still probably won't look as nice. So ultimately, I would be paying for convenience and a slight upgrade in visuals. That's what would mark the price point to me.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

zBrinks said:


> With one pane of glass for the door, how will it open if on a rack system and two other identical tanks are next to it?


I asked him the same thing, the front glass will slide strait out just enough to clear the tanks to the left and right. Then you can slide it both ways. There is also a top locking mechanism that will hold the front glass tightly to the sides when not in use to make it f.f. proof and kid proof. Part transformer part viv...grin

Casper


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

BPwhiteheat said:


> I want to see a pic of what they will look like. Or is like a standard euro viv?



As soon as the prototype is built, pictures and build threads will be put up. Probably even a video. 

Casper


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I went with Casper to see "in person" the aquariums and paladariums that DAS makes plus to help with brainstorming on the Demo Viv.
I was extreemly inpressed to say the least. They make all of these backgrounds.
Here are some not so good pictures (having problems with my photobucket, plus not a great photographer)

-Beth


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

wow. love the backgrounds looking forward to seeing what the final design and price will be.


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## Mr. elder (Jan 29, 2011)

guy loves his water features.some of those would make the coolest turtle tanks ,look big enough have fish to. really think that is cool idea(the big tanks). love to go to the doctor that has some of those tanks in the lobby. I bit you could git a chameleon to live up on top of those big pond like tanks. good luck with every thing


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

Any update on these?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Yes, we had our last brainstorming meeting for the vivs this morning. We talked a lot about keeping the prices down. There will be standard vivs, just the euro viv with drainage. Then it will go up from there. A adjustable top vent that totally seals with a hidden fan to keep the air moving when sealed up, 3 sided plantable backgrounds with hidden pump options for drip walls/h2o features, light kits, wood stands with a wood hood system that will make these vivs stackable, just put the hood on top and you can set one of the same size right on top of it and still have access to the lights and fan/vent. Totally eliminating the need for racks. And much, much more.

Building starts on Monday so hopefully I will have pictures by the end of next week.


Casper


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## damonk (Sep 19, 2011)

i will definitely be keeping my eye on this thread. hopefully they will be available in Canada at some point. even tho there's nothin like havin a custom built viv  if they were cheap enough im sure they would sell like hot cakes to more than Dart keepers.


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## punctata (Jan 31, 2011)

I am liking what I am hearing.


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm liking what I am hearing as well. Can't wait to see how this develops.

Zac


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

sounds promising


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Ghost vivs said:


> Yes, we had our last brainstorming meeting for the vivs this morning. We talked a lot about keeping the prices down. There will be standard vivs, just the euro viv with drainage. Then it will go up from there. A adjustable top vent that totally seals with a hidden fan to keep the air moving when sealed up, 3 sided plantable backgrounds with hidden pump options for drip walls/h2o features, light kits, wood stands with a wood hood system that will make these vivs stackable, just put the hood on top and you can set one of the same size right on top of it and still have access to the lights and fan/vent. Totally eliminating the need for racks. And much, much more.
> 
> Building starts on Monday so hopefully I will have pictures by the end of next week.
> 
> ...


Depending on the lighting you use you may want to watch your heat load. I'm sure you're thinking of this already, just thought id bring it up in case it just slipped your mind due to all the other designing.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

I have seen the light fixtures (he has a patent on them) they run cool so heat was considered from the beginning.


-Beth


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

The light hoods will be for cfl bulbs, they will be vented, raised off the glass, and if it fails the temp gun tests then fans will be added.

Casper


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Ok, yeah, I was concerned about the viv above the light when they are stacked.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I hope they have tad tanks.


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

Ghost vivs said:


> The light hoods will be for cfl bulbs, they will be vented, raised off the glass, and if it fails the temp gun tests then fans will be added.
> 
> Casper


Using 14w or lower LED Screw in bulbs from Lightyourreptiles would eliminate any heat issues. Thats what I use in my Exo hoods in lieu of CFL. Fans are just another added bonus. This viv is really sounding great. I cant wait to get my hands on one.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

El Saptio Joyas said:


> Using 14w or lower LED Screw in bulbs from Lightyourreptiles would eliminate any heat issues. Thats what I use in my Exo hoods in lieu of CFL. Fans are just another added bonus. This viv is really sounding great. I cant wait to get my hands on one.


Yes but that isn't necessarily a lot of light, you're gonna want to use at least 2-26w bulbs for an 18x18x24 for good plant health/brom colour.


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

Neontra said:


> Yes but that isn't necessarily a lot of light, you're gonna want to use at least 2-26w bulbs for an 18x18x24 for good plant health/brom colour.


I have neo zoe's turning bright red under 12w LEDs on a vert tank and an 18x18x24 exo w [email protected] LEDs that is doing great. I can understand your being hesitant as this is a newer product. I took a risk and bought some of these and am very pleased w results.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Ugh you do? I have a neo zoe having a hell of a time colouring up under 2-26w bulbs. Are they close to the bulbs?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I use at least 2 watts of daylight CFL per gallon of tank. So for a 24x18x18 tank which is just over 33 gallons i would use 3 26watt daylight bulbs since it's a longer tank lxwxh. You could use 2 if it was a vert


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## El Saptio Joyas (Jun 15, 2011)

Neontra said:


> Ugh you do? I have a neo zoe having a hell of a time colouring up under 2-26w bulbs. Are they close to the bulbs?



Here are few pics. This brom was solid green and yellow w NO red when i bought it. You can see the nice red color is on new growth on the parent, and the pup is a nice bright red. Existing growth takes longer to color and is not as pretty(yet). They are about 6-13" from the top of the viv. I have a brom in another viv half way up but its got some red starting to show. Keep in mind I have only used these since about Aug 2011. The pics I am showing you are a 29 vert w a single 13w LED. I believe Todd now sells even better LEDs that use same or less watts. I bought these for concern of heat. Once the new DAS viv is available, I will buy one and use the LEDs.


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## Wolfenrook (Jul 19, 2010)

Good to hear you folks will be able to by Euro style vivs soon, they really are better than Exos, ZooMeds or glass tanks.

I buy mine custom made for me from a chap in Wales, lovely vivs. He also makes them out of Optiwhite glass (I believe you folks call this starfire). The best bit, they are usually either cheaper or similarly priced to equivalent sized exo terra vivs.

Nobody has posted actual photos of one yet here, so thought a couple of pics would be useful. These are of one I had made to custom measurements of 40cm wide, 60cm deep (front to back) and 40cm high.



















I tend to have them double door style, same chap though does the single door option on vivs up to 50cm wide, you use a dent puller to lift the glass completely out to open the viv, like you do if you remove the sliding doors usually.

Anyway, good luck with this!

Ade


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## Vinnner (Oct 1, 2010)

Any updates or pics?! 

With Christmas around the corner I need to know if I should save some cash for outfitting racks

Thanks

Vinny


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

I will be calling him on Saturday for an update. Will let everyone know what I find out.

Casper


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

Oooh exciting!!!


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm holding off on buying some Exos to see how these shape up. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product(s)!


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

I just got an update from him, he is finishing up the fine-tuning of the top vent and when that is done then final construction will begin. 

The top vent design is taking a little bit longer because of the fan that will be incorporated in it. Its an adjustable vent that you can totally seal off but will have a hidden fan to keep air moving. 

I will be getting another update later next week so more info then.

Casper


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## NathalieB (Apr 23, 2007)

Sounds to me that things are beeing over-complicated here an from what i have read there will not be much " euro-style" about the final product.
The door-concept will not be euro-style, the ventilation-concept will not be euro-style. The only thing that's euro-style about them is the fact that they are not aquariums.
Not saying it will not be a good or even great product, only that imo it doesn't have much in comon with the terrarium-concept thats used over here


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

Not to be a nah sayer but wernt the prototypes soppose to be finished the first/second week of November. I don't see that these will be avilable for another 2 months or more and how will these be distributed.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

NathalieB said:


> Sounds to me that things are beeing over-complicated here an from what i have read there will not be much " euro-style" about the final product.
> The door-concept will not be euro-style, the ventilation-concept will not be euro-style. The only thing that's euro-style about them is the fact that they are not aquariums.
> Not saying it will not be a good or even great product, only that imo it doesn't have much in comon with the terrarium-concept thats used over here


I wouldn't call it over-complicated, more like improved options. If you take all the options out, they will be about the same thing besides the door.

Before he came to America he was building euro vivs in Holland 30+years ago. Now he has a chance to improve on the designs he helped pioneer all those years ago, so this is what he wants do. In his words... If I can't improve the design than why build it. I want to make them better than I did 30years ago.


Casper


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

bsr8129 said:


> Not to be a nah sayer but wernt the prototypes soppose to be finished the first/second week of November. I don't see that these will be avilable for another 2 months or more and how will these be distributed.


Bare with me on all the time its taking. There is a lot of stuff that needs to be done to bring a new product to market. (Something I'm learning for first time also) It also don't help when his tank builders come down with the flu, and you still have orders that you have to send out. So there is a lot more going on just the building of these vivs.

Believe me when I say that nobody wants these vivs to be ready more than me.

Casper


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## Vinnner (Oct 1, 2010)

Bump, updates?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Not yet.

But...

I will be going "hands on" next week. I have two weeks off from my real job so I will be working with him and his tank builders to finish everything up. Starting Monday I will have daily updates. 

Casper


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## Vinnner (Oct 1, 2010)

Make us Proud! Would kill to be in your shoes right now helping to create what could be a major product for the frog community.

Vinny


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Update ...

Construction has started and will be done shortly after the holidays. No pictures yet, but as soon as I have the prototype in hand a build thread will start. I will also be making a list of all the pet shops that he currently distributes to so people will know where to go to get them.

Once again, Thank you all for your patience with all of the time this is taking.

Casper


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Ghost vivs said:


> Update ...
> 
> Construction has started and will be done shortly after the holidays. No pictures yet, but as soon as I have the prototype in hand a build thread will start. I will also be making a list of all the pet shops that he currently distributes to so people will know where to go to get them.
> 
> ...


Any Chance of setting me up with them..
Starting Up my own shop and would like to carry as Many Options as possible


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

jpstod said:


> Any Chance of setting me up with them..
> Starting Up my own shop and would like to carry as Many Options as possible


Here ya go.


Pet Shop Animal Displays Fish Shop Units Display Aquariums Pet Store Fixtures Pet Store Enclosures

Check out the natures way in the upper left to see some of the stuff they already make.
It might be after the holidays before they get back to you, they shutdown till the 2nd or 3rd.

They are about 30 minutes south of Dallas.

Casper


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Good Luck...
Another Option for the Store Soon


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## frugs (Oct 27, 2007)

Bump, updates?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Just a little one. Last time I talked to him (3 days before Christmas) he was getting ready to build the track for the door(s). The standard viv will have a one piece glass door, the breeder vivs will have 2 pieces of glass with only a 1 millimetre gap separating them to minimize fly escapees. 

I will be talking to him in the next few days, so hopefully I will have more info then.

Casper


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## CJW (Nov 14, 2011)

very interested in this. I guess Ill have to start making some room


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## frugs (Oct 27, 2007)

Bump, updates?


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## Cyril_FR (Nov 29, 2011)

Hi  

1st post here while I read lotsa pages  I have a question, why do you call some setup "Euro style" ? 

Cyril


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Cyril_FR said:


> Hi
> 
> 1st post here while I read lotsa pages  I have a question, why do you call some setup "Euro style" ?
> 
> Cyril


Design Differences

Mainly in the Door Design, Air Vents..
Here is a link that shows the Main difference in the Air Vents
Dumb question about vivarium design . - Geckos Unlimited


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## Cyril_FR (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks for your answer, I'll read that ... I was wondering because As my nick says I'm from Europe, France lol 

I just started a viv and from what I see on your forums, I have to admit technics are slightly different ;-)


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Cyril_FR said:


> Thanks for your answer, I'll read that ... I was wondering because As my nick says I'm from Europe, France lol
> 
> I just started a viv and from what I see on your forums, I have to admit technics are slightly different ;-)


Welcome aboard..
I spent New Years 1989 in Paris
Was with US ARMY in Germany


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## Cyril_FR (Nov 29, 2011)

jpstod said:


> Welcome aboard..
> I spent New Years 1989 in Paris
> Was with US ARMY in Germany



Thanks  Hope you enjoyed Paris  .... Nice city to visit or party ... I'll never leave there again tho 

i got the main difference I think, You build usually vivs in aquariums


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Cyril_FR said:


> Thanks  Hope you enjoyed Paris


I did.. I love history and Architecture
Not Impressed with the Entrance to the Louvre..The Glass Pyramid is just plain stupid and out of Place.

Anyways back on topic

The American Made commercial Vivariums have vents however they do not have the Little indent you saw on the Picture on that link I posted..

And Commercial Available Vivariums were not readily available until the last few years..so yea people mostly converted Aquariums into Vivariums


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## Cyril_FR (Nov 29, 2011)

Okay thanks again for the explanations, and really sorry I polluted the thread... 

My next viv will be an American style one then héhéhéhé


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Cyril_FR said:


> Okay thanks again for the explanations, and really sorry I polluted the thread...


Guilty also, 




Cyril_FR said:


> My next viv will be an American style one then héhéhéhé


Watch out they are addicting


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## frugs (Oct 27, 2007)

What is going on with this?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

I'm meeting with him tonight after work, will know more than.


Casper


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

Any chance we could see a prototype at NARBC Arlington this coming weekend?


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Due to me working late at my real job, I couldn't meet with him. I did talk to him on the phone though and I will be meeting with him Thursday morning. I don't think it will be ready by this weekend. But I am trying to get him to come to the NARBC so he can talk to folks about them. I think once he sees that there's a lot of interest in the vivs, they will come to market sooner. Hint, hint...


Casper


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## Noort (Feb 10, 2012)

There is a guy here in the Netherlands, who sells tanks 'flatpackstyle' (like IKEA). Just unpack and silicone together.
(Any size is an option)
So if things do not work out over there with the pre-made ones, buy one set and duplicate...
Just make sure you have the one with the front vent in the right place -> horizontal instead of vertical (he also sells 'dry' tanks/ true terraria).

Most of the time you'll end up with double sliding doors in the front -also the *only* place where the ff's will on rare occassions slip through and go walkabout. But a small 'ditch' in front will discourage that a lot!
(And since the water from the false bottom will collect there anyway...)

But not the huge ammount of fogging over as you'd experience with the "this should actually be an aquarium"-type tanks.

There is another design available where the front glas (one piece) sits at an angle instead of straight; it leans backwards. Not so very populair in the living room because it is definately not childproof and you accidently break a lot more of them by casual handeling (opposed to being safely ensconsed in a sliding rail top and bottom). 

Of course all the condensation and perhaps spraywater that isn't aimed away from the front glas will eventually end up leaking through the front vent.
(that is why there is always a little raised piece of glas there at the bottom/front, to act as a gutter)
But since the ventilation (passive) is so good, you won't have much of that if any at all.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

any updates on this? seems interesting.


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## Vinnner (Oct 1, 2010)

BUMP!

updates?


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## itsott (Nov 25, 2010)

I had forgotten about this thread. Looks like i need to forget it again.


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

I think I was just a pipe dream


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Vinnner said:


> BUMP!
> 
> updates?


It is still moving along, but slowly. I'm pushing him to have them ready by frog day.




bsr8129 said:


> I think I was just a pipe dream


You can think whatever you want to... but you really have no clue...I can't make them get built faster... I work 60+ hrs a week at my job, so I don't have time to do anything pertaining to these vivs, I am along for the ride with the time it's taking also. Ever get patents? New supplier(s) lined up for parts? Testing the design? All this takes TIME, accept that, or not... I really don't care. 

Also when DAS took on this project they were in the very beginning stages of launching their new aqua plantarium tanks.

GNW AquaPlantarium 

But I guess that was a pipe dream also....

Casper


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

Hell those would make nice vivs!


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

With a little bit of silicon around the door.


Casper


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## ghostpilot (Dec 29, 2011)

Have I missed another thread pertaining to this moving along or is it still in the works?


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

Any new info would be awesome because well... it sounds awesome. Anyways I am in the Houston area, so I am definitely up for a road trip to see one of these finished. But yeah ghostpilot, I wonder if it has been put on the back burner to be developed at another time? At any rate I am excited for some new options here other than exos and building one ourselves.


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## puckplaya32 (Jan 6, 2008)

repking26 if your looking for euro vivs and willing to drive to dfw area pm me


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

I have Monday off work, so i will run over to his factory and see how things are progressing.

Hopefully i will get good news...

Casper


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

Its always good to know that there is someone in the texas region that has euros for sale, but right now I am starting an exo terra I got for nothing so definitely in a few months I will hit you up! What sizes do you have? And GhostVivs that is cool of you for your help!


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## puckplaya32 (Jan 6, 2008)

Most of what I have is built around bakers racks, but I can build you any size you d like. My email is [email protected] if you have more questions


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## repking26 (Mar 12, 2012)

puckplaya I will definitely hit you up in a few months as I plan to expand my collection by the winter!


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## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

sounds amazing


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