# southern surinam cobalts/eggs



## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

I got these imports last Sunday, and already got eggs today. Which means I have only had them for exactly 7 days. Wow! Thats the sam way my imported banded leucs started out. Good sign I hope!from left to right..eggs,female,male.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Congratulations! They look really good...I've got my fingers crossed for you!

I received my pair Thursday. By Friday, the female was really "in the mood"...hopefully the male will come around soon. I want eggs too!

Okay...this may be an extremely dumb (and late-in-the-game) question...but...
About how long does it take for the WC to lose their poisons? I've been leery of handling mine at all. I know they don't come close to what Terribilis can do...but still didn't want to chance anything.


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

WendySHall said:


> Okay...this may be an extremely dumb (and late-in-the-game) question...but...
> About how long does it take for the WC to lose their poisons? I've been leery of handling mine at all. I know they don't come close to what Terribilis can do...but still didn't want to chance anything.


if he dosent reply we will have our answer LOL


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

If you haven't performed your own independent fecal studies and treated these frogs appropriately, it is very likely that the frogs are carrying a number of different parasites. One thing you can do to try to limit the transmission of the parasites (including Coccidia) to the eggs/tads is to add a couple of drops of methylene blue to the petri dish and then raise any tads in water that is also treated with methylene blue.

Good luck with them, Richard.


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## bcfrog (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm really curious about Wendy's question, anyone? Lets say you got wc Phyllobates terribilis, how long would it be before they lost their toxicity?

B


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## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

haha, Im still here. Took me a while to get that...only because I am a SHE..I was wondering who "HE" might be...if that makes sense?
From what I hear, the toxicity can last up to a year while gradually getting less and less potent. For the most cases though, lasting only a few months. With terribilis though, I have no idea.
The best thing though is to not handle wild caughts if not necessary. And always wash your hands before and after...


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

Not so much as a Tongue tingle.......

I forget to wash my hands all the time, and I have eaten after dealing with them and a myriad of other "Toxic" Amphibians........

Haitian Tree Frogs on the other hand.......They'll make you crazy with the way they make skin burn......


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

forestexotics said:


> haha, Im still here. Took me a while to get that...only because I am a SHE..I was wondering who "HE" might be...if that makes sense?
> From what I hear, the toxicity can last up to a year while gradually getting less and less potent. For the most cases though, lasting only a few months. With terribilis though, I have no idea.
> The best thing though is to not handle wild caughts if not necessary. And always wash your hands before and after...


I have heard from another DB member's experience that Terribilis can still be potent for a few years. The member was telling me about a friend who had WC Terribilis for a few years and one day he just forgot to wash his hands after cleaning their tank and his friend ended up getting pretty ill. Now this could have been other things, who knows, but I wouldn't take a chance with WC Terribilis. I would think that the toxins would vanish within a at least 6 months or so. I am not an expert, just basing this off of things I have heard. If anyone knows a clearer answer please chime in.


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## bcfrog (Jun 3, 2010)

What are the symptoms of dart frog poisoning, aside from death? I'm not worried about it for myself, I'm just curious if anyone has this problem.

B


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

I would go with horrible pain, then death.


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

I would imagine it being similar to a venomous snake who has a neurotoxic venom since Batrachotoxin (the toxin of Terribilis and other PDFs) is a neurotoxin. Symptoms of muscle paralysis, heart failure, and like Richard said, horrible pain followed by death. Not a good way to go.


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## bcfrog (Jun 3, 2010)

BTW, RedHead, I think I bought some Red Eyes from you a while back, they are doing great. I finally bred my group last fall and your males helped out my group of females in a big way. I think I'm going to breed them again this spring; it looks like you have acquired a lot of Dart's since we last spoke (looking at the list under your name). Anyways, thanks for the info on the neurotoxins - sounds scarry.

B


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

Glad to hear that they helped out. I was wondering about the female I sold you as well. Did she add to the group or did you keep her seperate? yes I have added to my collection quiet a bit. It is truely an addiction.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Woodsman said:


> I would go with horrible pain, then death.


You do not want to see what happens when exposed to batrachotoxin ... imagine this.

"One wild terribilis specimen may contain up to 1900 micrograms of toxins! Myers and Daly, indirectly judged the human lethal dose of this toxin to be in the range of 2-200 micrograms. The poison would be lethal to humans if it entered an open wound.

The non-protein toxin increases the permeability of the outer membranes of nerve and muscle cells. Specifically, the alkaloids prevent sodium channels from closing, thus preventing nerves from electrically transmitting impulses and therefore, muscles remain in an inactive state of contraction. Ultimately, the heart experiences arrhythmias which can lead to fibrillation and heart failure. "

Frogs main


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

from wiki:

The Golden Poison Frog's skin is drenched in alkaloid poison, one of a number of poisons common to dart frogs (batrachotoxins) which prevents nerves from transmitting impulses, leaving the muscles in an inactive state of contraction. This can lead to heart failure or fibrillation. Alkaloid batrachotoxins can be stored by frogs for years after the frog is deprived of a food-based source, and such toxins do not readily deteriorate, even when transferred to another surface. Chickens and dogs have died from contact with a paper towel on which a frog had walked.[1][2]

.....a wild-caught poison frog can retain alkaloids for years. It is not clear which prey species supplies the potent alkaloid that gives golden poison frogs their exceptionally high levels of toxicity, or whether the frogs modify another available toxin to produce a more efficient variant, as do some of the frog's cousins from the genus Dendrobates.


very interesting read, heres the link:
Golden Poison Frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

BTW..... Grats on the eggs 
and the frogs are beautiful! 

are they bigger than most cobalts that you see?


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Wow...thanks for all the replies. Like I said, I know these aren't as lethal as terribilis...but I think I'll still exercise extreme caution for quite a while!

ForestExotics...You didn't have any after-effects from handling them?

DartAsylum...the only similar frogs I have are Brazilian Yellow Heads and the new frogs seem to be quite a bit bigger in comparison.


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## bcfrog (Jun 3, 2010)

Sorry FE and Wendy for hijacking the post,

Your frogs are really beautiful, I have been putting together a wish list of darts and your cobalts look great.

Stemcellular and DartAsylum very interesting info and I enjoyed the link. It sounds like instant paralysis. In the future I think I'll stick to the CB's. I still can't believe no one knows how they loose their toxicity or for that matter how they get it. I always loved the "ant" theory but I guess that was just too simple. Tricky tricky frogs. Thanks, great info.

Redhead, the female I got from you is gorgeous, very healthy, but I didn't cycle her for breeding so she never became gravid last year. This Spring I am cycling all of the females and I 'll let you know what happens. I learned a huge amount last year, made some mistakes but . If all goes well perhaps I can give you a couple of froglets.... 

BC


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

bcfrog said:


> Redhead, the female I got from you is gorgeous, very healthy, but I didn't cycle her for breeding so she never became gravid last year. This Spring I am cycling all of the females and I 'll let you know what happens. I learned a huge amount last year, made some mistakes but . If all goes well perhaps I can give you a couple of froglets....
> 
> BC


That would be great man. Let me know when you get some morphed out. I wouldn't mind raising up a few froglets.


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## bcfrog (Jun 3, 2010)

Definitely, if I can get some help from the rain gods again, it will probably be late June-ish. Besides, I think I owe you one...

BC


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## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

eggs doing good. Almost hatching! all three seemed to make it...Always feels like an accomplishment when tads make it.


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## eldalote2 (Jun 3, 2009)

Cant wait to see these guys at the meeting!


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

They are really nice, for my taste the nicest Cobalt morph there is, huge and tons of color.


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