# Those with drains/ misting/ Protean tanks



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Those who have done this...

is it best to put drain bulkheads in the front of tanks [but will see them? ]

or toward back? [hard to access, and how to you move a viv once piped in?]

I am setting up new racks of Protean vivs 22 x 17 x 30" with 2 misting heads per Viv.

I'd luv advice on misting systems too if any have some suggestions for me.

Thnks all.

Shawn


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I put my drains about 1 inch up, on the back wall. I use clear flexible hose which runs down to a plastic rain gutter just like on the edge of your roof. The rain gutter is mounted at a slight angle so that the water runs down to the end and falls into a bucket. The ends of the plastic hoses do not touch the gutter for fear of cross contamination. It is easy to roll up the hoses and tape them to the top of the vivs when I have to move them.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Pumilo said:


> I put my drains about 1 inch up, on the back wall. I use clear flexible hose which runs down to a plastic rain gutter just like on the edge of your roof. The rain gutter is mounted at a slight angle so that the water runs down to the end and falls into a bucket. The ends of the plastic hoses do not touch the gutter for fear of cross contamination. It is easy to roll up the hoses and tape them to the top of the vivs when I have to move them.


That is the exact setup I have. 

If you didn't have Euro fronts, and you didn't care about aesthetics, then having them on the front would probably be better. I recently had a bulkhead leak and I didn't see it until I slid the rack out to chase out the spiders. Use opaque hoses when possible as it will help with the algae growth. 

As far as misters go, you cant beat Mist King. Talk to Marty, I would expect him to cut you a deal since you will clearly be buying in bulk. Buy the standard nozzles. With a setup as big as yours, you will probably want to get a RO system and hook it up to a large tank with an auto shutoff. I refill my mister tank by hand, but even with just 10 spray heads I go through about 6 gallons a week.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you use threaded bulkhead fittings, then you can unscrew the tank from the drainage system. Many of the pvc fittings are tight enough that you can simply slide the connections together and have them not leak. this allows for a quick disconnect from the drainage system (hard plumb most of the rest of the system as that prevents leaks when the drainage system has pressures on it (like when removing a tank from the rack). Otherwise you would have to cut the tank free. 

One of the things that can make it easy (but not as "clean" looking) is to attach the clear hose to a threaded barbed adaptor (but I've found this to not be optimal as the hose kinks if it isn't mounted in the bottom of the tank), instead if you use an adaptor like this one http://www.amazon.com/Genova-30490-2-1-Male-Adapter/dp/B000BQYGTO and have a very short piece of hard tubing come out to a 90, you can run that down a couple of inches to a drain line. If you just insert the line from the tank into a T on a sloped line, it doesn't need to be hard plumbed as the gravity drain keeps the water from backing up and leaking. This allows the tank to be removed by simply pulling the one line up out of the T fitting and then the tank can be lifted up and out of the rack. 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed said:


> If you use threaded bulkhead fittings, then you can unscrew the tank from the drainage system. Many of the pvc fittings are tight enough that you can simply slide the connections together and have them not leak. this allows for a quick disconnect from the drainage system (hard plumb most of the rest of the system as that prevents leaks when the drainage system has pressures on it (like when removing a tank from the rack). Otherwise you would have to cut the tank free.
> 
> One of the things that can make it easy (but not as "clean" looking) is to attach the clear hose to a threaded barbed adaptor (but I've found this to not be optimal as the hose kinks if it isn't mounted in the bottom of the tank), instead if you use an adaptor like this one Amazon.com: Genova 30490 2-1/2" PVC Male Adapter: Home Improvement and have a very short piece of hard tubing come out to a 90, you can run that down a couple of inches to a drain line. If you just insert the line from the tank into a T on a sloped line, it doesn't need to be hard plumbed as the gravity drain keeps the water from backing up and leaking. This allows the tank to be removed by simply pulling the one line up out of the T fitting and then the tank can be lifted up and out of the rack.
> 
> Ed


You could also use a True Union fitting for hard plumbing to provide a leak proof quick disconnect. Redirect Notice (link does work)


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## BR5 (Dec 7, 2009)

Pretty much the same as everybody else, bulkheads in back with screw in PVC connections and plastic hose going in to a master drain system. I allowed 18" between the back of the rack and the wall for access. I've also had bulkheads leak so now I silicone around them inside & out.
Brian


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## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

What size bulkheads are people using?


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Here's mine Shawn.









You really don't need much space behind the tanks. I think they only time I go back there is to empty out the bucket.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

johnachilli said:


> What size bulkheads are people using?


I go 1" with Italian Bottling Spigots.

Vintage Shop 5/16" And 3/8" Bottling Spigot-Homebrew4less.com LLC

From the barbed end I go 3/8 hose to drain gutter. The ones I bought only came with one gasket so made a second one to provide a gasket on each side. I've on had one leak (very small amount) and it was easily tightened from the outside (spun valve 360 degrees). I like the option of having a valve and it takes care of the 90 degree turn.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm curious why people are having their bulkheads come out of the sides of the tank vs directly out of the bottom of the tank?

For me I put 1/2 bulkheads about 1" off the back edge of my 20 and 29 verts. The bulkheads come directly out of the bottom of the viv, not the back or side. The flange side is inside the tank to minimize the standing water under the false bottom. All the drains run to a central reservoir under the rack that is easy to access. I feel like coming out of the bottoms of the tanks leaves less standing water. This allowed my false bottoms to be very shallow, thus allowing for more soil mixture/hydroton/leaf litter. I'll try to take some pics of my setup.


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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I use 1 inch PVC in the front 2 48 inch racks side by side, Bulkheads loosely fit into PVC Tee's and 90's leaving an air gap so no cross contamination. from left to right I use 90+T+T+T+T+T+T+T+90 for the top row second row is the same except a Tee replaces the on one end this all drains to a P trap again with an air gap no buckets needed let me know if doesnt make sence and I'll send you a pic


Scott


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

U all are excellent, thank you.

Of course there is a lot of options now...to many LOL

I need pics! Im a visual learner 

please

S


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Heres mine. I have alot more tanks setup into the system now but they work pretty good for how small the hole is. quick disconnect and all drains into one bucket. Works for me.


















MistKing Misting Systems by Jungle Hobbies Ltd


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I'm curious why people are having their bulkheads come out of the sides of the tank vs directly out of the bottom of the tank?
> 
> For me I put 1/2 bulkheads about 1" off the back edge of my 20 and 29 verts. The bulkheads come directly out of the bottom of the viv, not the back or side. The flange side is inside the tank to minimize the standing water under the false bottom. All the drains run to a central reservoir under the rack that is easy to access. I feel like coming out of the bottoms of the tanks leaves less standing water. This allowed my false bottoms to be very shallow, thus allowing for more soil mixture/hydroton/leaf litter. I'll try to take some pics of my setup.


Because you had to modify your stands/shelves to accommodate your drain fitting and mine can simply go on any flat surface. Another reason would be that I like to keep an inch or so of water in the false bottom anyway, to provide extra humidity.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I'm curious why people are having their bulkheads come out of the sides of the tank vs directly out of the bottom of the tank?
> 
> For me I put 1/2 bulkheads about 1" off the back edge of my 20 and 29 verts. The bulkheads come directly out of the bottom of the viv, not the back or side. The flange side is inside the tank to minimize the standing water under the false bottom. All the drains run to a central reservoir under the rack that is easy to access. I feel like coming out of the bottoms of the tanks leaves less standing water. This allowed my false bottoms to be very shallow, thus allowing for more soil mixture/hydroton/leaf litter. I'll try to take some pics of my setup.


I tried this at the Zoo when I was there and discovered that it made it more difficult to remove a tank (since you had to remove the lights (and possibly the lower tank (if it was a deep rack) to gain access to loosen the fitting. In addition, the tanks had to be lifted straight up, which can be difficult if there is weight in the tank (such as having to move it to recapture an animal). If the fitting catches when you lift it off the shelf, you can crack the bottom or cause a leak (I spent too much time contorted in a rack to want to continue doing that in my elder years). In addition, draining through the side. front or the back of the tank, allows some water to remain in the bottom of the tank which helps with slowing thermal changes in the tank. 

On an additional note, for those using flexible hoses to connect thier drains, using these repair kits can make it very simple Nelson 50432 0.63" and 0.75" Brass and Nylon Hose Repair#, basically you want the two plastic pieces closed with the screws since you can then use it to make a tight seal on the connection. These don't rust like hose clamps can. 

Ed


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Because you had to modify your stands/shelves to accommodate your drain fitting and mine can simply go on any flat surface. Another reason would be that I like to keep an inch or so of water in the false bottom anyway, to provide extra humidity.


True, although it was a very simple modification. I just snipped out one of the wires and that was enough room for a small 1/2 bulkhead to fit. I've got about 1/4 of an inch of water in the bottom of all my verts right now. I understand the idea that more water = more humidity, however, I would think the surface area of that body remains the same wether it is an inch deep or 1/4 inch deep, and wouldn't that be the determining factor in how the water affects humidity? Unless of course that much water is evaporating away, in which case your drain probably isn't getting much use?. I'll defer to those with more experience than me on this though.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I'm curious why people are having their bulkheads come out of the sides of the tank vs directly out of the bottom of the tank?


For all the reasons mentioned and also because all my tanks incorporate a small pond in a front corner. For this to work I need about 1.5" of standing water under the false bottom. By drilling my drain on the back wall a little over an inch above the bottom I'm able to accomplish this. Even though I pull eggs, I find tadpoles in these ponds often and have even had froglets morph out.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Ed said:


> I tried this at the Zoo when I was there and discovered that it made it more difficult to remove a tank (since you had to remove the lights (and possibly the lower tank (if it was a deep rack) to gain access to loosen the fitting. In addition, the tanks had to be lifted straight up, which can be difficult if there is weight in the tank (such as having to move it to recapture an animal). If the fitting catches when you lift it off the shelf, you can crack the bottom or cause a leak (I spent too much time contorted in a rack to want to continue doing that in my elder years). In addition, draining through the side. front or the back of the tank, allows some water to remain in the bottom of the tank which helps with slowing thermal changes in the tank.
> 
> On an additional note, for those using flexible hoses to connect thier drains, using these repair kits can make it very simple Nelson 50432 0.63" and 0.75" Brass and Nylon Hose Repair#, basically you want the two plastic pieces closed with the screws since you can then use it to make a tight seal on the connection. These don't rust like hose clamps can.
> 
> Ed


I guess I'm still a nimble young buck. I've found that I have sufficient room to reach all the fittings, but that of course might not be the case in all applications. I like what you're saying about thermal changes as I know how much heat capacity water has.

I know all too well about trying to lift a tank to clear a bulkhead btw, from my days working with reef tanks.

I guess there are pros and cons to either method. I like that I was able to maximize the usable in tank space without having to give up as much of it to a false bottom, but I can see that if/when I decide to move the tanks, it'll be a pain in the you know what. I'm not having any temperature issues right now, but I can see how more water would mitigate fluxuations in temperature. Could that also be a con though, what if you were seeking a drop in temperature at night but might a larger amount of water slow or even prevent this?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I guess I'm still a nimble young buck. I've found that I have sufficient room to reach all the fittings, but that of course might not be the case in all applications. I like what you're saying about thermal changes as I know how much heat capacity water has.
> 
> I know all too well about trying to lift a tank to clear a bulkhead btw, from my days working with reef tanks.
> 
> I guess there are pros and cons to either method. I like that I was able to maximize the usable in tank space without having to give up as much of it to a false bottom, but I can see that if/when I decide to move the tanks, it'll be a pain in the you know what. I'm not having any temperature issues right now, but I can see how more water would mitigate fluxuations in temperature. Could that also be a con though, what if you were seeking a drop in temperature at night but might a larger amount of water slow or even prevent this?


It depends how much of a temperature drop your looking to add to the tank. Keep in mind that this can also be accomplished through vets allowing the air to exchange resulting in cooler air temperatures. If you use the thermal mass to mitigate this, it would be more similar to what occurs in the wild as the substrate would change temperature slower than the air, allowing for niche selection based on behavioral choices. 

Ed


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> True, although it was a very simple modification. I just snipped out one of the wires and that was enough room for a small 1/2 bulkhead to fit. I've got about 1/4 of an inch of water in the bottom of all my verts right now. I understand the idea that more water = more humidity, however, I would think the surface area of that body remains the same wether it is an inch deep or 1/4 inch deep, and wouldn't that be the determining factor in how the water affects humidity? Unless of course that much water is evaporating away, in which case your drain probably isn't getting much use?. I'll defer to those with more experience than me on this though.


I agree that 1/4" standing water will work just as good as 1". I guess it's really more about modifying the shelves and having to lift your viv up and out if you have a bottom drain. I used bottom drains last time around and found it a pain when I had to move them. I went with back drains this time and I like being able to slide my viv forward which makes it easier for me to move. As far as having extra standing water, I simply lift the front first and that drains most of it out the back drain. All in all, either method will work just fine. It's all personal preference. One last thing, for people using converted fish tanks, often the bottom pane is tempered or heat strengthened which cannot be drilled.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I went with front drains since I tend to swap out tanks to try differnet substrates and other modifications with some regularity.. This makes it a lot easier particuarlty when I upgrade a tank from a ten gallon verticle to a 20 gallon or larger as I can cut the lines easily and replumb it. I need to swap out two tens and a tub for a 90 gallon front opening cube (the cube is more permanent). 

Ed


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

I think most people who have put drains in the front of a tank already had the tank converted to vertical (or had it in mind) - just drilling the insert glass would make re-purposing the same tank again easier.

The bulkheads Marty makes I liked more than the Jehmco bulkheads I bought, much more 'low profile'. The quick disconnect vs. barbed I like more as well. Also, you're only fooling with one kind of tube for drains and misting. (like in Drizzle's post - the bulkheads etc are also sold at Home depot)

I enjoy the heck out of my MistKing, just make sure to push the tube into a fitting as far as it will go before you back it out to lock it. Thankfully I had towels nearby.

You might also want to consider 2 holes for misting nozzles instead of just one. I have a quad and 2 doubles in one tank and don't get the flexibility of coverage that I thought I would. I'm not sure if that makes sense. I can probably draw a picture in MS paint later, haha.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

stevenhman said:


> (like in Drizzle's post - the bulkheads etc are also sold at Home depot)


Ya I didnt get mine from mistking. I got all mine from bulkreefsuppy.com
They are actually bulkheads for cabinets for a rodi system and said dry only. I just used silicone and they havent leaked a drop. I linked those because they already have little gaskets and are black. also I thing BRS.com changed theirs to metal nuts instead of plastic. Ill have to check Home depot the next time thanks!


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

thanks all

I have to admit picking UP a 22x17x30" glass viv full of substrate/ water etc to move it just doesnt sound that easy...

Often now with Exoterra I have to SLIDE them onto the shelves and off. I think draining through the back wall sounds better.

I like the flexible hose idea, into a bucket, although my rack walls will have 16-24 vivs per wall, so maybe I will try having short runs of flex tube to a gutter and then to the end of the rack.

I also thought of closeable spigots off the fronts....and just walking around the room once a week and draining each tank manually into a bucket? Think they will 'fill up' too quickly? I do manual misting now, and usually dont have to hand drain vivs for 3-6 mo between but the misting systems must put out a lot more water....

S


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Depends on how much you mist. I know that sounds like a dumb answer, but things can fill up faster than you expect.

You could go with the flexible hose & mistking style bulkhead that drains down into a gutter. All the bulkheads, 90 deg. elbows, and tubing are available at home depot where(or near) they have their RO systems. You could do one gutter per rack level, or just one gutter per rack at the very bottom.

8 nozzles in the same tank (92 gallon)raised the water ~1 inch after about 1.5/2 weeks of 3 times a day for 30 seconds.

The idea of a manually using a bucket is good, but with all the effort into making the system at least partially automated it's my opinion you should just go ahead and do the draining too.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Go with the partial automation... it makes it so much more enjoyable. The overflows from my tanks are plumbed to a bucket in the basement so it is convient to disinfect and dump. 

Ed


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

Ed said:


> Go with the partial automation... it makes it so much more enjoyable. The overflows from my tanks are plumbed to a bucket in the basement so it is convient to disinfect and dump.
> 
> Ed


Not to hijack the thread, but (out of curiosity) what do you use to disinfect the overflow Ed? 

Keep the pics comming! I love seeing the different systems!


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

sports_doc said:


> I also thought of closeable spigots off the fronts....and just walking around the room once a week and draining each tank manually into a bucket? Think they will 'fill up' too quickly? I do manual misting now, and usually dont have to hand drain vivs for 3-6 mo between but the misting systems must put out a lot more water....
> 
> S


That was my initial idea, but the Mrs told me they would look way better hidden so I acquiesced. She was probably right, now I just have to dump one bucket once a week. Automate, says I. If you have auto-misters, you need no fuss draining. I can hardly fathom the fact that you hand-misted that whole room of yours. 

I have one rack with 10 nozzles. I mist about 6 gallons a week, and drain off 3-4 gallons depending on the weather. As was mentioned before, though, that could drastically change with your misting schedule.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Tadbit said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but (out of curiosity) what do you use to disinfect the overflow Ed?
> 
> Keep the pics comming! I love seeing the different systems!


Bleach is the wonder drug for this purpose.. 

Ed


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## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

Ed said:


> Bleach is the wonder drug for this purpose..
> 
> Ed


The funny thing is in my original post I asked if it was bleach. Then I edited it becuase I thought "surely it's some ultra affective homemade brew where one must include water of the amazon, meerkat byproducts, an acetylene torch, Hazmat suit, a pogo stick and a rubber chicken to get the desired results".


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