# raising ranitomeya tadpoles communally?



## pepethefrog (Nov 12, 2016)

Hello,

I am currently in college and may have the opportunity to bring my viv to my dorm. Its only a 12x12 viv but it is spacious for what it is. It has a water section with a functioning waterfall in the front of the viv that has id say about a half a gallon of water visible. My situation is: I am attending a military academy, so if i was to have a pair of frogs I couldn't really take up my desk space with cups that are rearing tads.. so, are there any species of ranitomeya that are less likely to produce cannibalistic tads? Also, how would i go about raising tads in the tank with running water if it was to work?

Thanks for the help, 

Nick


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

I would be more worried about keeping a setup and cultures at a military school. NOt known for their understanding...
The frogs will likely feed one tad per available container. If you get lucky you'll end up with one good sized tad in the water feature at a time. You would be well served by just leaving them alone in the viv and letting nature take it's course. 

You could take pics of the adults and remove any offspring that come along when you can as they get large enough. 

Luck...


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

You could try mantellas, but I can't honestly condone putting any frog in a 12x12x12.


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## Andrew Lee (Jan 21, 2014)

pepethefrog said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am currently in college and may have the opportunity to bring my viv to my dorm. Its only a 12x12 viv but it is spacious for what it is. It has a water section with a functioning waterfall in the front of the viv that has id say about a half a gallon of water visible. My situation is: I am attending a military academy, so if i was to have a pair of frogs I couldn't really take up my desk space with cups that are rearing tads.. so, are there any species of ranitomeya that are less likely to produce cannibalistic tads? Also, how would i go about raising tads in the tank with running water if it was to work?
> 
> ...


Hello, first of all I want to say that I hope I don't sound rude. However, it seems a bit too small for a pair of thumbnails. If it was a 12x12x18, it would be just fine but thumbs need more vertical space. Also, it seems too small to put in a water feature. That being said, that doesn't mean you can't put in a tarantula(although it might be too humid) or maybe a one or two fire belly toads. But let's say that in an ideal world, frogs don't care about space. I'm not too sure about which frogs species would have less cannibalistic tadpoles but as for raising tads, most thumbnails are obligates and you wouldn't really need to do anything because the tads eat the infertile eggs, drowning fruit flies, and plant matter. But be careful as the pump might be too strong. I hope I didn't do anything to deter you from keeping dart frogs. Maybe just make it a water featureless 12x12x18 and then you can be just fine. 
PS: With a water feature, I think you can only hold very few tads but even without the water feature, you can have lots of broms which basically means attractive living cups for tadpoles. Good luck!


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## Andrew Lee (Jan 21, 2014)

oldlady25715 said:


> You could try mantellas, but I can't honestly condone putting any frog in a 12x12x12.


You beat me to it!


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## pepethefrog (Nov 12, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies. I still have to talk to the higher ups about the enclosure, though recently we were told that we could have "plants" in our room... so its worth a shot!  Unfortunately this would be the largest sized enclosure i could store since the way my room is set up. I don't necessarily condone keeping a pair in such a small enclosure either... I have to think about it a little more and do some research on past threads to see if it has had any success. 

Regarding the tads, I guess I would place film canisters on the glass and let the frogs work it out themselves. 

Thanks, 
Nick

Edit: I have read on many threads NOT to put darts in there... but I have also read that a pair of vents or imitators would be fine in the space. The viv i have has about 4 pieces of wood coming out of the background to optimize the aboreal space in the tank (I also ordered 4 new mini broms for the viv today). Opinions?


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

pepethefrog said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I still have to talk to the higher ups about the enclosure, though recently we were told that we could have "plants" in our room... so its worth a shot!  Unfortunately this would be the largest sized enclosure i could store since the way my room is set up. I don't necessarily condone keeping a pair in such a small enclosure either... I have to think about it a little more and do some research on past threads to see if it has had any success.
> 
> Regarding the tads, I guess I would place film canisters on the glass and let the frogs work it out themselves.
> 
> ...


I agree with the others in the thread. That tank might have been barely adequate before you took away the floor space with the water feature. With the little bit of surface area of that tank taken up by water, I wouldn't put darts in there. Sorry...

Mark


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## pepethefrog (Nov 12, 2016)

Encyclia said:


> I agree with the others in the thread. That tank might have been barely adequate before you took away the floor space with the water feature. With the little bit of surface area of that tank taken up by water, I wouldn't put darts in there. Sorry...
> 
> 
> 
> Mark




Thanks for your input. Looks like I'm gonna be going with something else! 


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

Andrew Lee said:


> most thumbnails are obligates


Ranitomeya are not obligates...


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## pepethefrog (Nov 12, 2016)

JPP said:


> Ranitomeya are not obligates...



I believe many of them are. Ranitomeya will typically feed their tadpoles infertile eggs or smaller tadpoles to feed them. 



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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

pepethefrog said:


> I believe many of them are. Ranitomeya will typically feed their tadpoles infertile eggs or smaller tadpoles to feed them.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No they are not. _Oophaga_ are obligates, _Ranitomeya_ aren't.
There is a distinct difference between obligate and non-obligate egg feeders.


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## pepethefrog (Nov 12, 2016)

JPP said:


> No they are not. _Oophaga_ are obligates, _Ranitomeya_ aren't.
> 
> There is a distinct difference between obligate and non-obligate egg feeders.




What's the distinction? Thanks for clarifying 


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## dedman (Sep 5, 2008)

Tads of obligates will *only* eat feeder eggs. Non-obligate tads can be raised on a different food source - like dry fish food or tadpole food.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

pepethefrog said:


> What's the distinction? Thanks for clarifying
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oophaga are obligates because the tads need to feed exclusively on the unfertilized eggs from the mother.

Many Ranitomeya are non-obligates as they may feed on some eggs as well, but they do not require being egg-fed exclusively and can eat some other things as well.

Edit: dedman answered it well.


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## Andrew Lee (Jan 21, 2014)

JPP said:


> Ranitomeya are not obligates...


I never said all of them are but thumbs like oophaga.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Andrew Lee said:


> \most thumbnails are obligates !


If they were obligates then you could not pull them and rear them outside the enclosure without feeder egg, they are not obligates but facultative egg feeders and at least one species uses fertilized eggs as a food source. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Andrew Lee said:


> I never said all of them are but thumbs like oophaga.


Oophaga are not thumbnail frogs! Consider the size of histrionicus or lehmanni. 

some comments 

Ed


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