# Plexiglass questions?



## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

I have an old wooden entertainment center that I plan on turning into a tank. The hole that was for the TV is about 26" x 28" x 15" which puts it at about 47 gallons I believe. I was going to encase the whole thing so I can have a tank there that was waterproof.

I was planning on using plexiglass, though looking through all the builds here and at vivariumforum I didn't really see anyone using it. Is there a reason it isn't used much? or is it just because it's easier for people to buy a pre-built glass tank?

The plexiglass will be on all 6 sides with a door on the front side. I was planning on using a clear hinge for the door to open with. How thick should the plexiglass be? on the side, top and bottom I was planning on probably the 1/8" since it will be right against the wood. Front and back I was thinking thicker would definitely be a good idea.


I'm still trying to work out how I want to do everything after that. This will be my first tank, though I will be taking my time as I have other things going on anyways.

I've seen some systems built with fans for circulation, though I don't believe they all have been. It appears it is primarily for the plants/condensation? The same with lighting, the type of lights are because of the plants? I wasn't noticing any heat lamps or anything, so I'm guessing these are putting off enough heat for the tank or how is the temperature regulated? I couldn't see much beyond the thermometer when I was looking at all the builds.


I still have a lot of reading to do I know. Thank you for anyone that is able to help.


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Plexiglass is rarely used because it warps when exposed to humidity and heat.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Tony said:


> Plexiglass is rarely used because it warps when exposed to humidity and heat.


And that makes for frog jerky in the living room. Plexiglass also scratches very easily.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

If your looking to go that way go with cast acrylic it will be more expensive but the clarity and quality in much better and doesn't warp like plexiglass. Also once the acrylic is chemically welded it should not warp.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Azurel said:


> If your looking to go that way go with cast acrylic it will be more expensive but the clarity and quality in much better and doesn't warp like plexiglass. Also once the acrylic is chemically welded it should not warp.


He is talking about doing a swinging door, though. That's going to warp. It won't be chemically welded to anything. Cast or not, it's still going to warp. Acrylic and Plexiglass are different brand names of essentially the same product. Now Lexan, that is a different product, and it doesn't warp. But it's going to be 4 or 5 times the price.


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> He is talking about doing a swinging door, though. That's going to warp. It won't be chemically welded to anything. Cast or not, it's still going to warp. Acrylic and Plexiglass are different brand names of essentially the same product. Now Lexan, that is a different product, and it doesn't warp. But it's going to be 4 or 5 times the price.


Would there be a better method to doing a door? Initially I was thinking of doing one I slide into a groove that goes around the 2 sides and bottom of the door. This would mean it has something on 3 sides to prevent warping. Would this or something else be a better option?

Regarding Lexan, you say this doesn't warp, do is scratch in a similar manner to plexiglass? or is it more durable on that front as well?

Finally, what about going with like glass for the front face and door, and then plexiglass/lexan for the 4 sides and back? Would I be able to seal them together so it wouldn't leak? If so, it seems that may be a good alternative if I can mix the medias to get some of the different properties where they are more beneficial? Just exploring some ideas from what you all are saying, and thank you for your guys' feedback.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Actually Lexan is what I was thinking in my head but typed cast acrylic.....Good clarification Doug.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I disagree with the statement on acyrlic. I have 11 tanks on my rack that is NOT warping made by AZDR and have lasted 2-3 years.


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

VenomR00 said:


> I disagree with the statement on acyrlic. I have 11 tanks on my rack that is NOT warping made by AZDR and have lasted 2-3 years.


Are they made of the plexiglass/acrylic or of the Lexan (Polycarbonate)? Also, how thick are the walls? Did they use the same thickness for all sides? How big are these tanks? (wondering as something smaller is less likely to bend then a longer sheet, so just trying to keep everything in order.) Thank you

edit: would love to see a picture of one of the acrylic tanks of yours as well. Thanks again


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## Mworks (Mar 23, 2008)

Is there a reason you don't want to use glass? It would make life much easier for you.

Regards
Marcus


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

Mworks said:


> Is there a reason you don't want to use glass? It would make life much easier for you.
> 
> Regards
> Marcus


A very good question for you to ask  I was thinking it'd be easier to work with putting it together and all that, easier to change aspects during design. It is lighter then glass. I believe it is cheaper then glass, though I haven't looked in a while. And, I don't know what else.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I work with glass for a living as a glazier for the last 20 years. I used to build aquarium filtration equipment on the side out of Acrylic. Acrylic runs 3 to 5 times the price of glass. Lexan runs 4 to 5 times the price of acrylic. Afraid I can't answer you about if Lexan scratches easily as I have not worked with lexan.
For your consideration. Build your box out of acrylic, including a solid sheet where your door should go. With me so far? So the box is totally sealed with no way to get anything in or out. Now, you cut out an opening with a jigsaw, or better yet, a router and I guide fence assy. This opening is, of course where your door will be. But you cut it out so that there is a solid lip of at least an inch or two all the way around. This gives you the chemically bonded edges that Azurel mentioned, and yes, that will increase strength and should eliminate the viv itself from warping.
Now put a sliding glass door on tracks as the door warping will be your weakest point. Here is a thread where Kaity shows how to do the type of door I'm talking about and where to get the tracks. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63870-building-glass-vivarium.html


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> But you cut it out so that there is a solid lip of at least an inch or two all the way around.


Is this picture from Kaity what you are talking about here for the lip? And you'd have it go on all 4 sides?




> This gives you the chemically bonded edges that Azurel mentioned, and yes, that will increase strength and should eliminate the viv itself from warping.


I'm kind of confused as to what you mean by chemically bonded edges. What is doing that?

Also, I imagine it should work just as well to cut the hole for the door our before putting it all up and together? Or am I missing something as to why that wouldn't be as good of a method to doing it.

Thank you


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## Gert-Jan (Oct 4, 2008)

I think he meant to say:
Cut a square out of the sheet u are going to use as the front panel.
And in that square build the door sliding panels.

Basicaly u are going to make a box out of Plexi/Lexan sheets...
As for the sliding rails for your door: think about the euro viv's for a simple but solid contstruction. (as in that picture u posted yourself..)

Chemically Bonded edges: this means the edges of the Acrylic/lexan sheets are just 'welded' with cement or KIT as we call the stuff we use in Holland.
(i'm Dutch so don't know the name for 'kit' in American-English..)
Kit is the main stuf used to construct aquariums etc etc...


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Look aRound said:


> Is this picture from Kaity what you are talking about here for the lip? And you'd have it go on all 4 sides?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is a product called Weldon that comes in differant grades that you can select from based on the situation. It is a liquid that is applied to the edges where the Lexan/acrylic meet. It basically melts the 2 panels together and once it is cured they are bonded together. Once cured it is inert and is harmless.


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## Gert-Jan (Oct 4, 2008)

KIT: is SILICONE actualy.. 
(partying much and long clogs the mind  National celebration's too )


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

why not build 5 sides with acrylic and and the front with glass? i see no reason to be faithful to one or the other


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

epiphytes etc. said:


> why not build 5 sides with acrylic and and the front with glass? i see no reason to be faithful to one or the other


From all I'm seeing so far, it seems like this may be a very good option. Having the glass on the front would give a nice clean surface that won't mar and also have the durability. 

Are the euro viv's just a viv that has the sliding front doors? I search the boards for euro viv and it seems like that was the common link from what I could see.

As for ventilation, do I want screen at least somewhere to allow ventilation? or is this not needed? I don't feel I've seen it on all the setups, but some include it. So what makes up the decision to include it or not? If you do include screen, I imagine they are using metal screening. Are the holes small enough that the fruit flies can't get out?


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

my tanks are all closed with no ventalation at all (except any tiny gaps), but the humidity here is usually in the low single digits, and i don't want to mist constantly. if this isn't an issue for you, i would say that ventilation can only make plants and animals healthier and happier.


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

epiphytes etc. said:


> my tanks are all closed with no ventalation at all (except any tiny gaps), but the humidity here is usually in the low single digits, and i don't want to mist constantly. if this isn't an issue for you, i would say that ventilation can only make plants and animals healthier and happier.


ok, so it mostly depends on where the person lives and their normal weather basically? I don't get any extremes really. It can rain a fair bit, but our humidity isn't really that high and we don't get that hot. So, I'd probably be better off without the screen/ventilation? Some kind of fan inside the tank would probably be helpful from what I have read then to keep the air circulating for the plants and all?


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## Gert-Jan (Oct 4, 2008)

If u want to ad forced Air circulation by installing a Fan, it would be wise to ad some amount of screen mesh to have fresh air enter the Paludarium.

Maybe 1 strip about .5" on the front and 1" at the top in the back for a natural air flow.
If you do that, no fan is needed basically, because the air will flow in from the front and rise to the top/back because of the warmth created by the lamps.

Misting might be needed if the soil dries out to fast, but can be done by hand if u have the time for it..
When a water pond or false bottom is added to your tank, misting won't be so important because the water will raise humidity naturally.


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## tgregoire (Jul 21, 2010)

I think plexiglass is the first choice for a lot of people because its easier to work with. You should honestly look into glass. It is cheaper and honestly very easy to work with. Will be and stay 100 times clearer than plexi or acrylic or lexan. Most of those types of materials scratch very easy. Either way would work but I personally think you would be happier in the end results using glass.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

epiphytes etc. said:


> why not build 5 sides with acrylic and and the front with glass? i see no reason to be faithful to one or the other





LookinRound said:


> From all I'm seeing so far, it seems like this may be a very good option. Having the glass on the front would give a nice clean surface that won't mar and also have the durability.
> 
> Are the euro viv's just a viv that has the sliding front doors? I search the boards for euro viv and it seems like that was the common link from what I could see.
> 
> As for ventilation, do I want screen at least somewhere to allow ventilation? or is this not needed? I don't feel I've seen it on all the setups, but some include it. So what makes up the decision to include it or not? If you do include screen, I imagine they are using metal screening. Are the holes small enough that the fruit flies can't get out?


You cannot do this. What will you bond it with? Silicone does not stick well at all to acrylic. Acrylic glues do not work on glass. 
Weld-ON 3 and 4 are water thin products good for when your seams are perfect. Weld-On 16 is thicker, the consistancy of model glue. Weld-On 40 is a two part that makes it harder to work with but gives you the best hold and the best "bead" build up in the seams.
What are you building this for? Dart frogs? Forced air from outside the viv would be a mistake. This will bring too much dry air in. You need humidity levels of 80 to 90%. Internal air recirculation is an option good for frogs. DIY Air Circulation | GlassTropics http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/55446-diy-tank-air-circulation.html
The passive ventilation mentioned by Gert-Jan is a better option. Especially in conjunction with internal fans.

_I think he meant to say:
Cut a square out of the sheet u are going to use as the front panel.
And in that square build the door sliding panels._
Either in that square, or mounted to the flat face of that square. Like these are done. They grey tank probably shows it best. Glasscages.com - Glass / Acrylic Sliding Fronts


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Pumilo said:


> .
> What are you building this for? Dart frogs? Forced air from outside the viv would be a mistake. This will bring too much dry air in. You need humidity levels of 80 to 90%. Internal air recirculation is an option good for frogs.


Maybe I'm a little cranky today but why do so many people stick with the humidity in that range? This isn't even what the average humidity is in a number of habitats where these frogs are found... see for example http://www.sipaliwinisavanna.com/docs/vegetation_sipaliwini_savanna.pdf 
where the reported humidity ranges from 60-80%... they need may need niches where the humidity gets into the 90% range but thier whole enclosure doesn't need to be in that range 24/7.... 

Ed


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> You cannot do this. What will you bond it with? Silicone does not stick well at all to acrylic. Acrylic glues do not work on glass.
> Weld-ON 3 and 4 are water thin products good for when your seams are perfect. Weld-On 16 is thicker, the consistancy of model glue. Weld-On 40 is a two part that makes it harder to work with but gives you the best hold and the best "bead" build up in the seams.


So, are you saying the Weld-On 40 can't be used to seal the acrylic to the glass either?

On thereeftank.com, i just found a product made by 3M called marine adhesives. It says it's for sealing glass & most plastics as well. Any opinion on this? I'm not trying to say you are wrong, just looking into the options, and I do appreciate your experience.



> What are you building this for? Dart frogs?


Yes, definitely dart frogs. I haven't decided on the type yet, as that is a ways out, and from what I understand that can also influence how many of them I can get as some will do more climbing while others will primarily stay on the ground, thus decreasing available space for them.



> Forced air from outside the viv would be a mistake. This will bring too much dry air in. You need humidity levels of 80 to 90%. Internal air recirculation is an option good for frogs. DIY Air Circulation | GlassTropics http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/55446-diy-tank-air-circulation.html
> The passive ventilation mentioned by Gert-Jan is a better option. Especially in conjunction with internal fans.


I definitely wasn't planning on forcing air from outside based on what I have read. I did see that link earlier about the circulation and it looks very good. Still got to decide about the screening for the passive ventilation. Thank you 

I also found a link helping to clear up lighting a bit. I think I have a basis to go off of now from that part as well  (I'm including that in part so the thread hopefully is helpful to others who may do a search and find it again in the future. It can be hard sometimes finding certain things)


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Weld-On 40 will appear to stick to glass but separates quite easily. I mix my Weld-On 40 on a piece of scrap glass mixed with a tongue depressor. When I'm done I lay the depressor on the glass. After it dries, the two seem to be bonded but it you pull, the tongue depressor and glue come cleanly off the glass.
I'm unfamiliar with the 3m products you linked to, but you will need to research if they are safe to be used around dart frogs or not.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Doug is absolutly correct, what he is saying the weld-on products can only be used for polycarbonate/Lexan/Plexiglas's. It will not melt/chemical weld the glass to the Lexan, I have used all but Weld-on 40 in most cases I had the acrylic shop cut the pieces I needed which is done on a CNC it will give you a perfect cut for a seam and then. When you have a perfect cut the Weld-on 3 or 4 works through osmosis into the seam. If you cut the Lexan yourself I would go with 40 this way you don't have to be 100% accurate and it gives you a little play room.

You could build everything out of Lexan and get Lexan slides for glass. You can build it so you can have a glass door just a matter of either building the pieces(slides for door) you need or finding them pre-built and doing the gluing. The it will come down to a matter of cost......Glass I am sure would be cheaper but heavier so weight might become an issue( maybe/maybe not). Then you can have the glass shop cut all the pieces to your specs.....Choices....? That is the hard part when you have many to choose from all with pros/cons.


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

Thank you Pumilo and Azurel. I guess having the just the front is definitely out as an option, though doing the sliding doors out of glass still is as you both have mentioned. It appears that using those slides, there'd be a gap in between the two pieces of glass that slide which could allow the fruit flies to get out, is this true? or is there something done that prevents this? Where I have now seen it on so many vivs I'm guessing they are doing something to avoid that.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I am not sure as I have never had sliding doors but I cannot imagine that you couldn't find something to fill in the space like some kind of weather stripping or rubber seal. I guess in the end it depends on how big the gap would be. Me personally, I like the sliding doors that are all one piece/ panel. I have also seen them with 75/25 so the split isn't in the middle. One of the reasons I like Zoomed vivs all one piece front doors nothing drives me crazier then having a line in the middle of the viewing panel.


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

So, how does it work with only having a single panel sliding door? I imagine then it can only stretch half the distance anyways, or are they actually sliding off to the side of the tank (so it basically couldn't be sitting right next to a wall? Or do they slide up/down? If you have a picture of one that demonstrates it I'd love to see it. I'm looking for some pictures of the zoomed vivs to see what I can find as well. Thanks

edit: I found one listed as a zoomed tank (http://www.vivariumforum.com/commun.../6347-ma77hew7s-2nd-build-zoo-med-nt-4-a.html) and it appears that their doors swing open instead of slide.


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## Gert-Jan (Oct 4, 2008)

One other thing:
I build my first Paludarium ever from second hand glass i got from a former co-worker.
ABSOLUTELY FREE!
I just cut in into pieces that had no scratches or broken of shards.

Then cut them to the size i needed and it's still doing great after 5 years.
Just look out for people rebuilding there windows or house, ask politely and your
up to your neck with big pieces of glass you can use to your own liking.

I just needed 2 windows for a ViV 2ft High, 1,5ft wide and long..
It cost me one cup of coffee and some gasoline to get the guy to his house.
All because his car's water pump broke down and he needed to get home QUICK.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Look aRound said:


> So, how does it work with only having a single panel sliding door? I imagine then it can only stretch half the distance anyways, or are they actually sliding off to the side of the tank (so it basically couldn't be sitting right next to a wall? Or do they slide up/down? If you have a picture of one that demonstrates it I'd love to see it. I'm looking for some pictures of the zoomed vivs to see what I can find as well. Thanks
> 
> edit: I found one listed as a zoomed tank (Ma77hew7's 2nd Build - Zoo Med NT-4 - Vivarium Forums) and it appears that their doors swing open instead of slide.


Yea the Zoo Meds do swing, but if you can find the acrylic hardware you can make the sliding doors.

I think there was a post by a member named Mworks that has sliding doors. Marcus makes all of his own vs. If you can find the post where he shows them you can get the idea on how to do sliders.....I don't have the chance right now to do the search with nap time coming for the kids, but I get the chance in a little bit I will look for the thread.....


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## LookinRound (May 1, 2011)

Azurel said:


> Yea the Zoo Meds do swing, but if you can find the acrylic hardware you can make the sliding doors.
> 
> I think there was a post by a member named Mworks that has sliding doors. Marcus makes all of his own vs. If you can find the post where he shows them you can get the idea on how to do sliders.....I don't have the chance right now to do the search with nap time coming for the kids, but I get the chance in a little bit I will look for the thread.....


I think I found the thread you are referring to: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/40647-my-new-vert.html


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Yea that is his thread, I thought there was one where he shows his build of the polycarb vivs. I looked and couldn't find it so it might have been on a differant forum. On his website he shows pics of the poly vivs he started building. Although I am not sure how he added the sliding doors, he does show that he has runners for the front glass....Which is something your looking to do.


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