# Serious situation with one of my varaderos



## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Over the last few days I have noticed one of my varaderos basiclly in one spot and has not moved from that spot I figured that was a favorite hiding spot. Which in most cases I figured he was just hiding, but today as I was feeding and he tried to hop away and couldn't and looked like his leg was caught. So I moved some of the plants around a little to try and see what the deal was. Well come to find out his right leg had some fine roots twisted around it and it had him stuck. So I moved a bunch of the rooty crap around and sure enough it was really twisted around his leg to the point that his right foot was basiclly limp from the knee down and the thigh of this leg is a bit fatter looking then the other. But once away from the roots he is hopping but not using that foot.

It also looked like it started to atrophy(kinda not sure?) so I did some surgery on the roots and got him free and got most of the roots away from his leg but there is still a really fine piece wrapped around it cutting off circulation......With it being so tight on his leg I am now not sure what to do or just let nature take it's course. I really don't think I can cut it away with out the possibility of cutting his leg and hurting him any more then he already is. I put him in a smaller qt tank so I can observe him and now he will beable to eat since he couldn't move around before and get enough food.....One thing I really don't want to do is cut the foot off from below the knee and apply antibiotics to stop infection but I also don't want to lose him. A three legged varadero is better then a dead one......

Needless to say I removed the section that was all rooted up and looking nasty, I had planned to do some of that anyway on vacation. 

What do some of your guys think I should do? Try and cut the fine root away? Leave it? Snip the leg at the knee and hope for the best? Kinda makes me sick to my stomach to be honest.


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

I would take a treezers and try to squeeze a part of the root, so it looses its firmness, and then pull it off.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Since it is tight around his leg I'm guessing the leg is puffy around it? In other words, you can't get the root lifted above the surface of the leg at all?

Poor little frog. I'll be thinking of how to help him.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Arpeggio said:


> I would take a treezers and try to squeeze a part of the root, so it looses its firmness, and then pull it off.


The piece of root that is still around the leg is as thin as thread and tight against the leg tissue that is what has me worried. It would be like fishing line wrapped tightly around your arm or leg....Not alot of room to get to the root since it is pinching of circulation.....I have noticed he is eating now that he can move.....Which is a good thing.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Do you think you could get the very tip of an xacto knife under it? 

X-Acto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Maybe you should go ahead and get a little quarantine tank ready for him, in case his leg gets infected. So you can keep a better eye on him and apply medications if needed.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

I am not sure I might try that tomorrow one slip though and it could be a disaster especially on a moving frog.........If not I am not sure what to do next if that don't work.....Will update once I try the X-Acto.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Tough situation... Is the root still alive, like was it growing with leaves and all before you pulled other parts off, or is just dead and actually tied up? If it was recently growing, perhaps not that it has lost the other roots/ leaves it will dry and become brittle as it dies? I'm thinking it must be pretty hard to hold the frog while trying to wedge an x-acto knife in there, that might require some sort of sedation.
Keep us updated.
Bryan


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Tough situation... Is the root still alive, like was it growing with leaves and all before you pulled other parts off, or is just dead and actually tied up? If it was recently growing, perhaps not that it has lost the other roots/ leaves it will dry and become brittle as it dies? I'm thinking it must be pretty hard to hold the frog while trying to wedge an x-acto knife in there, that might require some sort of sedation.
> Keep us updated.
> Bryan


Hey Bryan

Thanks, yes I believe it is still alive the section that he was in was live plants that were rooting into the air real fine roots that in all pretenses much like thread string which being so fine is what is going to make it difficult to get to on his leg.....It could very well be dead as well, I know the tiny section that I got off him was brown and was pretty easy to cut with cutical clippers. 

I thought about the seditation as well and have no idea of what could be safe to use much less the dose to use if it did have something.....I do know that he is doing well now and I have seen him eat in the QT tank which is good...I will update tomorrow once I get a X-Acto.....


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

frogface said:


> Since it is tight around his leg I'm guessing the leg is puffy around it? In other words, you can't get the root lifted above the surface of the leg at all?
> 
> Poor little frog. I'll be thinking of how to help him.


Exactly the situation......If you come up with some thing please let me know..


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

The longer you wait the more likely he is to loose the foot as well. 

Not the mention the possibility of clots forming and once the tourniquet is released could cause them to become mobile...thinking stroke or something. 

Shoot Dr. Frye a email see if there's a way you could sedate the frog. I am thinking lowering its body temperature slightly might slow its heart rate and help sedate it somewhat but I would leave that up to expert opinion. 

Do you still have a frag kit laying about? I know there's the really fine tip tweezers in most of them.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I am not a vet and I am not suggesting that this is what you do to the frog.. I am suggesting reviewing the information and talking to a vet about it as method to restrain the frog to limit damage from struggling while you attempt to remove the root. 

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/...007 - Anesthesia Comparison - Herp Review.pdf


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Any update on the situation? Did you get it free?


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## kimmmwo (Jan 20, 2008)

I would recommend finding a vet in your area that specializes in exotics and see if they would be willing for you to come in - If it is a vet that works with small exotic pets they typically have some sort of magnification (head loupes) and fine surgical instruments and are experienced in anesthetizing amphibian patients (although maybe not this small!). 

Good luck!


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## nurse3766 (Apr 8, 2010)

you could try suture removal kit
it has a small scissors with a blunt hooked end that goes under the suture to prevent cutting the skin

u can get one at any medical supply place i would think.

i get them from my office. hmm you could run into yr MD office and beg for a kit 

good luck i really hope it all turns out ok


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

D3monic said:


> Any update on the situation? Did you get it free?


No I did not Mike...I had to work last night(third shift) so I did not get a chance to give it my full attention....I am home now though and about to take it on.....


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Update....

I got it.....Didn't take as long as I thought with a moving frog.....He was very calm to be honest clung to my finger pretty tight. I ended up using some really fine slant edge tweezers....I got a hold of the end that was barely sticking out and pulled slightly and twisted and it came right off much easier then I thought it would have been by looking at his leg....It took a little bit to get him into position, I also used a wet paper towel for him to sit on this way he didn't get dehydrated and sprayed him a couple of times to keep him moist. It looks like it has been like that for a bit and started to cut into the skin a little. But about 5 min after it was off he used it instead of dragging it behind him(kind of), he can now pull it up under him where before it was limp and hung out.....Now I just wait and see.....Thanks everyone for the ideas and help. Much appreciated.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

Sounds like his foot was "asleep" and now that circulation is restored feeling is coming back.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I sure hope the little guy is ok. Keep us updated.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks Ed for the link much appreciated.....I am out of thanks I guess.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Great news!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Good to hear. 

Ed


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## nurse3766 (Apr 8, 2010)

Great News !!!!

thanks for the update


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Update....

Just before lights out last night he was out and about a bit and his leg didn't look to much better then being able to get pulled up underneath him......

So for the gurus that posted....A question?

What do I do if it does not heal or come back? Is there a chance that he gets a internal infection from the damaged tissue? If he doesn't get internal infection should I just leave it be and he has a lame leg? I think I know the answer to the last question but thought I would ask anyway.

James


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

James, I think I would contact Dr. Frye or another herp vet and ask his opinion. He's good about answering his emails.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Or even Oz (as he checks the boards for pms or e-mail him.. he is a vet now..) 

Ed


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> James, I think I would contact Dr. Frye or another herp vet and ask his opinion. He's good about answering his emails.




I don't have any here in Kalamazoo, MI.....But I plan on sending one off to Dr.Frye this evening....Just incase.

Update.....

I just sat and watched the QT tank for a bit and saw him come out for a few...So as for now this will be the last update unless something drastic happends...In that time I did get a chance to see that his leg and foot are being used and the swelling has gone down it is no longer limp but able to flex and be used to push off for hopping....All good news...

I do not plan to put him back since in the main viv since there is a breeding pair and putting him back could cause some aggresion from the alpha male....Thanks for the concern for my frog it is much appreciated.


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## LaSelva (Nov 20, 2009)

It may be that he had some short-term nerve issues but not real tissue damage--nerves are more susceptible to pressure in some places than blood flow (when your leg goes to sleep from being crossed, it's pressure on a nerve, not loss of blood flow). Whatever it was, I'm glad he's doing well.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

LaSelva said:


> It may be that he had some short-term nerve issues but not real tissue damage--nerves are more susceptible to pressure in some places than blood flow (when your leg goes to sleep from being crossed, it's pressure on a nerve, not loss of blood flow). Whatever it was, I'm glad he's doing well.


Good point...Never even thought of that.....He is doing great now...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Really glad to hear it!


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Pumilio said:


> Really glad to hear it!


Yea I was sick to my stomach till I saw him actually use it....I never liked losing fish or coral when I was reefing. But for some reason there is a greater connection with these frogs.....For me anyway.


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## Gumby (May 27, 2010)

Awesome news!


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