# Strickly neo brom's 18x18x24 w/pics advice welcome!



## WONTON SALLY

I'm doing a planted tank until early november, when i will put a sexed pair of green and bronze in. Below is the plant list only NEO's. also here are some pics of what is already done.

(2)Pheasant
andy ann
edge of night 
olens 696 x charm 
gold fever

rosella 
java plum 

Blueberry smoothie 


perfection 
russel lively 
blueberry tart 
kulkulbah 
pheasant 

gypsy lady 





and then the landscaping stuff; whatever it's called




i went with coco husk this time around as before i went with plantation soil as the substrate above the hydroton:
[URL="http://www.exo-terra.com/images/shared/products/coco_husk_brick_pack.jpg"][/URL] 
here it is in the bucket, then in the tank

 

as the 2nd layer above the hydroton and the cocohusk i used the sphagnum moss

 

to help keep the future FF's and other bugs in; siliconed some screen to the vent cover
 

i made the same mistake as last time by not putting in the cork tile 1st, but since nothing will be enhabiting this for awhile it's a easy fix.
photo courtesy of zoo-med products.

Natural Cork Tile Background==


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## WONTON SALLY

here is the supplies for the cosmetic part of the tank:









i am going to do a push/pull air circulation system on this, if all goes well i will do it on my cobalt tank i currently have.

















and for some of the brom's they will be put in these cups, with drains if all goes well.


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## WONTON SALLY

petsmart was out of the plantation soil so i went with this to go over the great stuff and the brown silicone:









some driftwood that will go in the corners where the black silicone is in a few pics:


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## WONTON SALLY

that is it for now, next i will add the great stuff and the driftwood and post those pics. the neo's will be here saturday or monday so i will be moving quick to get this done if all works well.


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## Neontra

Just a question, but how do you plan on doing GS with the tank standing up?


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## WONTON SALLY

not sure what you mean? have you had problems with great stuff while vertical?


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## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> not sure what you mean? have you had problems with great stuff while vertical?


The great stuff will slide off if it's vertical, as it's "tackiness" isn't strong enough to deal with the weight of the foam. You'll either have a big mess on the bottom, or the top will be paper thin and the bottom will be 10 inches thick.


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## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> The great stuff will slide off if it's vertical, as it's "tackiness" isn't strong enough to deal with the weight of the foam. You'll either have a big mess on the bottom, or the top will be paper thin and the bottom will be 10 inches thick.


regardless, anytime you use it there will always be a vertical and a horizontal; no way tp prevent it. i get what you are saying, but don't see how to get away from the vertical?


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## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> regardless, anytime you use it there will always be a vertical and a horizontal; no way tp prevent it. i get what you are saying, but don't see how to get away from the vertical?


Sorry for late response. Well, sorry to tell you, but you're going to have to take all of the substrate and stuff out, and then put the tank on it's sides/back then spray the foam. Never heard anyone spray the foam vertically, but I tried it a little bit on accident, and it came out very sloppy and ugly, and the foam slowly slid down to the bottom. Never again.


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## WONTON SALLY

well if it has to be done that way it will be done that way. once i get back from work later this afternoon i will give it a go!!!


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## JP41

seems like a big list of plants for just a small tank, hope your planing another tank. sounds like your going to have a few extra neos...


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## WONTON SALLY

i may put a few in my cobalt tank, but i plan to use this as a grow out tank. i know i mentioned about putting a few green and bronze in here late October early November, but i probably just buy another tank for them and continue to use this as a grow tank for neo's.


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## WONTON SALLY

i did small amounts of the GS on each side and once i was done i sprayed it with water and it never ran. i will post some pics later today.


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## Zoomie

Andy, one of the problems that you may run in to is deciding what look you like. Too many species may have the tank looking disjointed. I purchased 9 broms for the 50 gal which are full grown and I may have to pull two. It's just too much.

Be prepared to house them in an alternative enclosure, or even get them in an outside pot and in the sun while your weather is still favorable.


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## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> i did small amounts of the GS on each side and once i was done i sprayed it with water and it never ran. i will post some pics later today.


Really? Maybe it was just with the red can. On my 20 long it slid with my red can, but you used the blue can. A little off topic, but with your foam is it almost neon yellow? On my new 20H the blue foam was a bright neon yellow vs the red can being creamy white.


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## beatusb

I zoomed in on your materials and noticed the big bold advertisement on the DAP silicone tubes for Microban. I personally would not use that in my viv as I would be concerned with the chemical leaching out into the viv from all the misting/humidity. Guess you are not concerned by that.


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## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> Really? Maybe it was just with the red can. On my 20 long it slid with my red can, but you used the blue can. A little off topic, but with your foam is it almost neon yellow? On my new 20H the blue foam was a bright neon yellow vs the red can being creamy white.


 
bright yellow, i will post the setup in a few.


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## WONTON SALLY

beatusb said:


> I zoomed in on your materials and noticed the big bold advertisement on the DAP silicone tubes for Microban. I personally would not use that in my viv as I would be concerned with the chemical leaching out into the viv from all the misting/humidity. Guess you are not concerned by that.


didn't think it was an issue, i didn't much care for the texture of the black; i may take it back, but the only other non microban silicone they had was cedar brown-about half the color of this brown.


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## WONTON SALLY




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## WONTON SALLY

remained vertical the whole time:


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## WONTON SALLY

i trimmed alot of the GS off, as it was way too much IMO.


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## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Andy, one of the problems that you may run in to is deciding what look you like. Too many species may have the tank looking disjointed. I purchased 9 broms for the 50 gal which are full grown and I may have to pull two. It's just too much.
> 
> Be prepared to house them in an alternative enclosure, or even get them in an outside pot and in the sun while your weather is still favorable.


Zoomie, so get what you are saying, but i wanted to do a one time order. the ones i don't mount in the cups and on the back wall i am going to put these on the tank floor like this:








as i get further with this tank, i realize i may just use this as a grow out tank and like i mentioned before to just buy another tank for the green and bronze's.


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## Judy S

Neontra said:


> Really? Maybe it was just with the red can. On my 20 long it slid with my red can, but you used the blue can. A little off topic, but with your foam is it almost neon yellow? On my new 20H the blue foam was a bright neon yellow vs the red can being creamy white.


If you read the label on the two different colored cans, it describes just how much to expect the contents to expand.....and you are so right, the first few times I used the yellow can, was amazed just how much it DID expand, and was disappointed at how spongy it was under the glossy, "hard" exterior...and it was more difficult to cut/sculpt because of that. Any suggestions as to how to avoid those huge unexpected bubbles????? I do know it you "work it" right away, the bubbles are not as bad, but it creates a sort of "saggy" appearance instead....


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## Neontra

Dang, nice job! Really glad you didn't have to take out all the substrate, everything would get mixed up and destroyed  I like your "ghetto" epi web thing for when you sprayed the foam. Good thinking. And don't worry, you're not alone with spraying too much foam. I bought a huge 24 oz can for a 10 gallon that I was GOING to do, but I used the whole can. Let's just say, The only thing left was a huge chunk of foam and a lot of broken glass  Good thinking also with the pots, but I think those are those decomposable ones, right?


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## Neontra

Judy S said:


> If you read the label on the two different colored cans, it describes just how much to expect the contents to expand.....and you are so right, the first few times I used the yellow can, was amazed just how much it DID expand, and was disappointed at how spongy it was under the glossy, "hard" exterior...and it was more difficult to cut/sculpt because of that. Any suggestions as to how to avoid those huge unexpected bubbles????? I do know it you "work it" right away, the bubbles are not as bad, but it creates a sort of "saggy" appearance instead....


It says that it dries soft and remains flexible, which I didn't mind, but I will only use the blue can now because of a huge problem with the red or black can. All my foam shrinks off. On my new tank, it was my first time with the blue foam, and it came out perfect! I think if you push the foam down after an hour or so it might help with bubbles.


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## Judy S

Neontra said:


> Dang, nice job! Really glad you didn't have to take out all the substrate, everything would get mixed up and destroyed  I like your "ghetto" epi web thing for when you sprayed the foam. Good thinking. And don't worry, you're not alone with spraying too much foam. I bought a huge 24 oz can for a 10 gallon that I was GOING to do, but I used the whole can. Let's just say, The only thing left was a huge chunk of foam and a lot of broken glass  Good thinking also with the pots, but I think those are those decomposable ones, right?


that was pretty funny...to read...not experience. Since my husband is in construction, I knew that stuff could really expand. I can just picture in my mind your expression and thoughts: "what the s..t--what do I do now...?" am curious why the pots are: 1) biodegradable, 2) inserted small end in, 3) where is the drainage for them, 4) are they slanted enough to receive water and stay in place... hard to discern from the photos... What is the advantage to the "peat pots" that are being used. It is NOT a criticism, because I can see advantages, the peat pots are able to leach moisture away from the roots until they degrade...and then will be totally in the soiless mix eventually...or are you replacing the soiless mix with something else???


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## Neontra

Judy S said:


> that was pretty funny...to read...not experience. Since my husband is in construction, I knew that stuff could really expand. I can just picture in my mind your expression and thoughts: "what the s..t--what do I do now...?" am curious why the pots are: 1) biodegradable, 2) inserted small end in, 3) where is the drainage for them, 4) are they slanted enough to receive water and stay in place... hard to discern from the photos... What is the advantage to the "peat pots" that are being used. It is NOT a criticism, because I can see advantages, the peat pots are able to leach moisture away from the roots until they degrade...and then will be totally in the soiless mix eventually...or are you replacing the soiless mix with something else???


What was sad is i used a huge 24 oz can of the black can, which expands the most. I was like "What did I do wrong?" I really hate to waste the stuff, so that's why I used all of it. a 20oz of the black can is enough for 4 18x18x24s lol. I think what Andy is doing with the pots is only to mount broms onto, not to hold soil LOL. But you're right, *why are they biodegradable???*


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## WONTON SALLY

Judy S said:


> If you read the label on the two different colored cans, it describes just how much to expect the contents to expand.....and you are so right, the first few times I used the yellow can, was amazed just how much it DID expand, and was disappointed at how spongy it was under the glossy, "hard" exterior...and it was more difficult to cut/sculpt because of that. Any suggestions as to how to avoid those huge unexpected bubbles????? I do know it you "work it" right away, the bubbles are not as bad, but it creates a sort of "saggy" appearance instead....


also if you spray it with water after a few minutes it sets up faster and expands less, but i did trim over 50% of it off. all i had to do is tear it off by hand.


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## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> I like your "ghetto" epi web thing for when you sprayed the foam. Good thinking. QUOTE]
> 
> what are you refering too?


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## WONTON SALLY

Judy S said:


> that was pretty funny...to read...not experience. Since my husband is in construction, I knew that stuff could really expand. I can just picture in my mind your expression and thoughts: "what the s..t--what do I do now...?" am curious why the pots are: 1) biodegradable, 2) inserted small end in, 3) where is the drainage for them, 4) are they slanted enough to receive water and stay in place... hard to discern from the photos... What is the advantage to the "peat pots" that are being used. It is NOT a criticism, because I can see advantages, the peat pots are able to leach moisture away from the roots until they degrade...and then will be totally in the soiless mix eventually...or are you replacing the soiless mix with something else???


i believe they are peat moss, this position of the cup will allow me to angle the plant better due to them being different sizes, also i can put the drains for them in different spots as well.


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## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> What was sad is i used a huge 24 oz can of the black can, which expands the most. I was like "What did I do wrong?" I really hate to waste the stuff, so that's why I used all of it. a 20oz of the black can is enough for 4 18x18x24s lol. I think what Andy is doing with the pots is only to mount broms onto, not to hold soil LOL. But you're right, *why are they biodegradable???*


by the time the degrade if they do, the broms should be rooted by then; then you won't see them. nope no soil in the pots, won't be doing that. if i do anything it will be moss or sphagnum around the roots, but no soil.


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## WONTON SALLY

i went a got the right brown silicone:








will post photos soon.


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## WONTON SALLY

after the trimming:


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## WONTON SALLY

i still have to trim off some of the black silicone around the edges, the substrate i used to cover the brown silicone with was very fine; not to my likings but live and learn also this was my 1st go around with using GS in a tank. i will only use half as much next time around so there is more roundness and a liitle more layer to it.


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## WONTON SALLY

not my best work by any means, but that is why i did it on a planted tank 1st so i would know the does/dont's next time around. i have the glass cut, i will post some pics when i get to trimming the fans down to fit the pvc and the hose ready, also have to add the reflective tape to the light fixture to get a little more out of it.


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## Neontra

First, yo9u're ghetto epi web thing was that chunk of epi web (or similar) holding up the wood during foaming.Would've been cool if you left it, as it is an all brom tank 
Second, tank looks great. The wood you used in the background is the same as my wood. Do you know if it is mopani or grapewood? It looks like both!!!


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## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> First, yo9u're ghetto epi web thing was that chunk of epi web (or similar) holding up the wood during foaming.Would've been cool if you left it, as it is an all brom tank
> Second, tank looks great. The wood you used in the background is the same as my wood. Do you know if it is mopani or grapewood? It looks like both!!!


no clue on the type of wood, would be nice to know as well.


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## WONTON SALLY

the fan before








the fan trimmed after








the fan siliconed in








i will do this to the other side, but reverse the position of the fan for the push/pull effect.
been a long day, i will post the pic of the glass in the morning, also with the hose attached and with the reflective tape on the light.


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## chadfarmer

i need pics of the broken glass


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## WONTON SALLY

hey you know where you can go with the broken glass. my 1st two attempts before i came over are in the trash. i never tried the 2nd after i got home yesterday. thanks again for drilling the holes.


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## WONTON SALLY

here is one of the fixtures that will light the tank:
before i add the tape to it:


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## WONTON SALLY

here is the glass that will go on top:
the two big holes are for the push/pull effect, the three smaller holes are for the mistking bulkhead, a vent hole, and for the wires from the purple UV led's.


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## Zoomie

Thanks to you, I bought a bunch of that tape. I would like to personally thank you for the extra 10 hours of work. I have to do 6 of them! 

Question Andy, I noticed that you are running the holes in opposing corners for the fans. Are they running independently or do you intend to plumb them together. If you are running push/pull with connected dual fans, how are you going to plumb around the light fixture? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Neontra

Looking good, Andy.


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## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie, i will post a pic just for you now that i have you hooked on reflective tape


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## WONTON SALLY

well in the process of setting it up on the floor and taking pics for Zoomie, there was a slight mishap. after getting up from taking the pics i was walking past the setup, barefoot mind you and i nicked the glass with my pinkie to;;;;; SEE BELOW!! especially ZOOMIE---make sure he looks at this!!!!!

























but here's what he really asked for!!!


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## WONTON SALLY

i will trim the pvc and the glass so it will drop another 1 1/2 to fit a little more flush.


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## Neontra

That's interesting! By the way, you're not alone. I tried putting on living hinge, and the glass slipped. Cut my big toe half wat through, hit the bone. Stitches anyone?


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> well in the process of setting it up on the floor and taking pics for Zoomie, there was a slight mishap. after getting up from taking the pics i was walking past the setup, barefoot mind you and i nicked the glass with my pinkie to;;;;; SEE BELOW!! especially ZOOMIE---make sure he looks at this!!!!!
> 
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> but here's what he really asked for!!!



Yeah you should use a nail file and knock off that sharp edge lol.

I thought you would have the PVC peice on top of the glass :|
What you need to do now since you're gonna have the pvc threads coming through then you should go to the conduit section and get some conduit nuts to hold it on there while you silicone it.
I'm not exactly sure how you're gonna do this. Hopefully you didn't drill the hole bigger than the pvc peice or yyoure gonna have a hell of a time sealing it lol


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## WONTON SALLY

i thought that having the fans under the glass would be better for the air exchange, i will just shave some of the threads down to get it to fit, not sure how to hold the hose in place to silicone.


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## Zoomie

Every time I carry a cut piece of glass that hasn't had the edges buffed, I am terified that something like that will happen. Sorry about that. It's just proof that no good deed goes unpunished.

I'm with Dragon on this. I'll run down some conduit nuts and try going that route.

And for Pete's sake (whoever Pete is), stop bleeding all over everything.


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## WONTON SALLY

here is the thread shaved down, currently silicone is drying.


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## dendrobates

dragonspirit1185 said:


> yeah you should use a nail file and knock off that sharp edge lol.
> 
> I thought you would have the pvc peice on top of the glass :|
> what you need to do now since you're gonna have the pvc threads coming through then you should go to the conduit section and get some conduit nuts to hold it on there while you silicone it.
> I'm not exactly sure how you're gonna do this. Hopefully you didn't drill the hole bigger than the pvc peice or yyoure gonna have a hell of a time sealing it lol


ouch!!!!!!


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## WONTON SALLY

and after:


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## fishr

Sooo how long will it be until we see some Neo's? Also the type of wood you chose is grapewood.


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## WONTON SALLY

due to the holiday weekend, Jason Desantis who i bought them from on here contacted the post office to mail them on SEPTEMBER 1st and they couldn't guarantee them arrive until tomorrow+ the chance of them sittting somewhere way hot for a few days as well. so he is going to mail them out tomorrow and they should arrive this thursday and friday at the latest. another good thing about waiting until this week is that the temps are (30)degrees cooler than last week.


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## WONTON SALLY

before drilling the hole for the wires:








after drilling the holes for the wires:








air tube is in and siliconed:








a pic of it all sealed and curing:


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## WONTON SALLY

put screen in over the vent hole incase i ever decide to put some frogs in it.


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## WONTON SALLY

so the last hole that is buy the plug for the fan there is going to be where the mistking bulkhead will go and then the middle hole is for the wires from the UV LED's i will put under the canopy as well.


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## WONTON SALLY

pics with everything in the canopy minus the UV LED's:


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## fishr

WONTON SALLY said:


> pics with everything in the canopy minus the UV LED's:


Since I'm electronically stupid, I'm confused as to what you are actually doing or wiring it looks like on the glass top?  Would you mind elaberating?


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## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Since I'm electronically stupid, I'm confused as to what you are actually doing or wiring it looks like on the glass top?  Would you mind elaberating?


 
what i am doing here is a push/pull air circulation design, thanks to DRAGON--- you know who you are!!!

one fan will be pulling air in from the tank, the other will be pushing it back in to the tank. they are on opposite sides of the tank to circulate more air. one fan is mounted forward to push the air back in let's say and the other is mounted reverse to pull it back in. reason being so i am recirculating the tank's air as opposed to not having the hose on there and drawing in room air which would have disastrous effects-well maybe. it would lower the humidity and the temp. i am a computer dork so i live for this stuff. there will be alot more to this once a new fan controller arrives to power all this stuff that i have been mentioning. also i have UV LED'S that i might throw on here as well. hope i answered your question/// if not let me know.


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## fishr

Yes, you did answer my question,  Thanks. However, broms thrive in humidity. So I'm not understanding the need to keep it low. I understand the worry of mold, but there are ways to combat it. At least if you try Tills again, there will be plenty of air flow for them this time.


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## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Yes, you did answer my question,  Thanks. However, broms thrive in humidity. So I'm not understanding the need to keep it low. I understand the worry of mold, but there are ways to combat it. At least if you try Tills again, there will be plenty of air flow for them this time.


it won't keep it low, i will be maintaining the same humidity, just with more circulation. has nothing to do with mold. and yes there will be some Tillandsia ionantha 'Fuego' in there as well.


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## fishr

> it would lower the humidity and the temp.


When I read this, that was why I asked about the humidity levels. Probably a typo? 

Good luck with your Tills!


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## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> When I read this, that was why I asked about the humidity levels. Probably a typo?
> 
> Good luck with your Tills!


 
not a typo this is the part you are misreading:

* reason being so i am recirculating the tank's air as opposed to not having the hose on there and drawing in room air which would have disastrous effects-well maybe. it would lower the humidity and the temp.*​


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## WONTON SALLY

i will silicone the canopy on today and trim the black silicone off the edges to help clean it up a bit; later today when i get home from work.


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## WONTON SALLY

canopy and LED's siliconed on and drying. still need to trim off some of the black silicone from the GS. once it dries later today, i might bring it in and hook it up to the mistking system from my cobalt tank and power the LED's, but i doubt the stink will be gone in time!!


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## fishr

I let my viv cure for three weeks.


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## Neontra

Just a quick heads up Andy, the wood i'm using (same as yours) has molded, not too bad as of now, and only where it isn't wet but a little moist. In the areas where there is always water/or very moist, I don't see any mold.


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## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> I let my viv cure for three weeks.


a few days outside with fresh air will be plenty, especially since there are no frogs going in--if there was i would give it an extra day or two outside. tank stayed outside last night due to the stink of the silicone. when i get home from work today i will hook it up to the mistking system and throw on the light fixture and maybe hook up the LED's.


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## fishr

Ya, grapewood will mold but it should also be temporary especially if there is microfauna eating up the fungus.

With LEDs, this tank should rock anyone's socks off!


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## WONTON SALLY

i did order one of these from Jason as well and he said he sent 2extra and a druid, not sure what that is; i will google and post.
photo courtesy of www.plantchaser.com








http://plantchaser.squarespace.com/....jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1288797741829


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## WONTON SALLY

sucks the photo didn't post, click the second link to check it out. hooking up mistking now, will post in a bit.


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## WONTON SALLY

well here is a FTS minus the mistking nozzle, it is hooked up, but there is a plug in the bottom of the bulkhead. a few weeks ago i was having problems with my other nozzle and in the process of getting it clean i must have jacked the nozzle end so it sprays pretty crappy. i am ordering some next week, so in the meantime back to spray bottle.


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## WONTON SALLY

i am hooking up the LED's, posting a pic in a few.


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## WONTON SALLY

forgot to mention, since the tanks are side by side now, i will have to wait till the cobalt's lights go off in another 45mins--then i will post a pic of the LED's.


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## WONTON SALLY

pics with the glass open and closed:


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## WONTON SALLY

another update with the plant package:
Detailed Results:







Processed through Sort Facility, September 07, 2011, 7:01 pm, HAZELWOOD, MO 63042

which means it will be delivered tomorrow..


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## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> another update with the plant package:
> Detailed Results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Processed through Sort Facility, September 07, 2011, 7:01 pm, HAZELWOOD, MO 63042
> 
> which means it will be delivered tomorrow..


Those pics are a little too small!


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## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> Those pics are a little too small!


 
HA HA, i can make them a ton bigger!!


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## WONTON SALLY

at first the purple LED's are a bit blue, after a few days of "burning in" they set to the purple like they are supposed to be.

also another update:
Detailed Results:







Out for Delivery, September 08, 2011, 8:32 am, HAZELWOOD, MO 63042


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## WONTON SALLY

i have been meaning to ask this question--i didn't even think of the clear hose i was using for the circulation-lowes only had clear. anyone think that algae-mold will grow in this hose? do i need to make the outside black to prevent this if it indeed will mold?


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## fishr

Algea will probably start to grow but it's not harmful, just unsightly to look at. Not sure about mold.


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## WONTON SALLY

if it works the way i want, i will just wrap in electrical tape, and then spray paint the one for the cobalt tank.


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## fishr

I would not spray paint anything with frogs inside... Even then, I would not use any chemicals since you already have frogs.


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## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> I would not spray paint anything with frogs inside... Even then, I would not use any chemicals since you already have frogs.


 
it would be done on the outside of the hose, so how could that a pose a threat? also it would be sealed off from the inside of the tank.


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## WONTON SALLY

well the plants arrived
the neo's are in a bucket soaking for a few hours. had to do that 1st before taking pics as i will be too cold later to soak, anyways here is a quick shot of the (TILL IONANTHA FUEGO) pics do no justice to how awesome these look. i will take some better pics once i trim some of the neos and get them all setup.


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## WONTON SALLY

ok here is a shot of the 3 FUEGO'S AND A DRUID, 1 of the fuego's hasn't colored yet or the druid that is yellow.









close up of one of the fuego's.


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## fishr

WONTON SALLY said:


> it would be done on the outside of the hose, so how could that a pose a threat? also it would be sealed off from the inside of the tank.


Having lotion on your hands, and accidently forgetting, and handling frogs is dangerous to them since their skin absorbs everything. Paint has fumes. I know I get headaches just with mild contact with the areosol. I strongly would not using such a chemical around any amphibians...

It's like owners who spray windex on the out side of the glass on their fish tanks. Windex has ammonia. And people wonder why their fish keel over?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Having lotion on your hands, and accidently forgetting, and handling frogs is dangerous to them since their skin absorbs everything. Paint has fumes. I know I get headaches just with mild contact with the areosol. I strongly would not using such a chemical around any amphibians...
> 
> It's like owners who spray windex on the out side of the glass on their fish tanks. Windex has ammonia. And people wonder why their fish keel over?


 
appreciate the concern, but who handles their frogs? that is the one thing i haven't done to be honest with you. one of my frogs was held by my daughter the 1st day they went into the tank- you try telling a 7year old NO and see what happens anyways i seek other avenues to black it out. see below for the whole reason this was started.


----------



## WONTON SALLY




----------



## WONTON SALLY

once the fan controller arrives i will post more detailed pics on that build as well.


----------



## fishr

WONTON SALLY said:


> appreciate the concern, but who handles their frogs? that is the one thing i haven't done to be honest with you. one of my frogs was held by my daughter the 1st day they went into the tank- you try telling a 7year old NO and see what happens anyways i seek other avenues to black it out. see below for the whole reason this was started.


One of my jobs; I once worked in a pet store. You'd be amazed how many wanted a frog just so they can handle it like a pet kitten.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

it may look crowded to some, but keep in mind this is a grow-out tank for future tank builds as to prevent having to buy plants over the winter here in st louis. it can make certain things that lovely color blue


----------



## Neontra

The tank looks a little dry? Looks a good for a growout tank, maybe in the future you could sell some?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> One of my jobs; I once worked in a pet store. You'd be amazed how many wanted a frog just so they can handle it like a pet kitten.


i know it is very tempting to just hold them as they are just that awesome IMO, but it's not worth something catastrophic going wrong, as that is the type of luck i would have if i did.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> The tank looks a little dry? Looks a good for a growout tank, maybe in the future you could sell some?


 
doors were open for about 1/2hour putting the plants in and whatnot, but i would rather do some trades in the future for some other plants if the opportunities arise.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

also i have to keep the yellow stems in the plants that have their names on it, or else i will forget, also helps me to keep track of their growth!


----------



## Judy S

really nice collection...what are the tilies mounted on?? and I still am curious why the peat pots are being used the way you have them...is that for stability?? I've had them in the past, but the high humidity and lack of good air circulation did them in very quickly...ah well, part of the process of learning...


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Judy S said:


> really nice collection...what are the tills mounted on?? and I still am curious why the peat pots are being used the way you have them...is that for stability?? I've had them in the past, but the high humidity and lack of good air circulation did them in very quickly...ah well, part of the process of learning...


i coated the pots in the brown silicone to give them more longevity-while the NEO's grab a root hold. i had a small stump about 6inches tall and 8inches in diameter, then i drilled 4 holes into it, and then i used some of this vine that i had soaking for weeks as i didn't quite know what to do with it. so once i saw the extra tills i received in my order i came up with the idea to do what i did, no pics, but i will show you the vine link below:
https://www.saurian.net/Terrarium-Vine.html
so i had 3feet of the vine and cut them into (4)-9inch pieces. stuck the vine anywhere from 1inch to 1 1/2inches into the stump i had. the vine is hollow in the middle which was perfect. so i had some plastic toothpicks that fit in there perfectly and then stuck them through the bottom of the tills and that is how they are mounted the way they are keeping them up in the air and letting them drain and keeping the root of the plant from rotting. hope this answers your previous questions.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

ok i will start with the second part of this build with the new fan controller:
here it starts from my gaming PC rig:









for the power supply i have 1000watt CORSAIR powering the badboy, i ran another power cable from it pic below:









then i cut off a 4pin adapter from an old fan


----------



## WONTON SALLY

this was supposed to be the last pic:
cut the male end off from an old fan








i went to home depot and bought 30feet of this 4wire already sleeved to keep it neat:








spliced it in to the fan adapter power cable:


----------



## WONTON SALLY

this is it spliced in








ran it the length i needed just below the 30 feet into the female end:








this is what it will be powering:








connected the female end into the fan controller 4pin power plug:


----------



## BethInAK

Holy crap, Andy, how did I miss that you truly gave blood for your viv. I trust your toe has reattached itself?

your brom selection is awesome. Looks great. 

Your tillasandia tree is very Dr Seuss and I think I am going to steal the idea for my Alien vivarium. ;-) 

What are the stems of the tree made from?


----------



## BethInAK

never mind that stupid question, I see it now. Terrarium vine. Saurian.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

this is the unit powered on for the 1st time:








then this is the unit powered on 









and set on top of the tank-top left corner:


----------



## WONTON SALLY

has 5 temp probes, but no need for all of them, unplugged four of them ran with one.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

BethInAK said:


> Holy crap, Andy, how did I miss that you truly gave blood for your viv. I trust your toe has reattached itself?
> 
> your brom selection is awesome. Looks great.
> 
> Your tillasandia tree is very Dr Seuss and I think I am going to steal the idea for my Alien vivarium. ;-)
> 
> What are the stems of the tree made from?


 
toe reattched, i still blame Zoomie

wanted to something different for my TILLS this time around.

months of researching and tons of PM's to Jason Desantis finally all came to an end!!

thanks for looking.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

all is holding as far as the installation goes, just waiting to see how the plants adjust to their new enviroment.


----------



## Zoomie

Andy, did you use the temp sensors that came with the NZXT?

I don't know what the big deal is with your toe. If it falls off, you still have nine more. Don't be such a crybaby.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Andy, did you use the temp sensors that came with the NZXT?
> 
> I don't know what the big deal is with your toe. If it falls off, you still have nine more. Don't be such a crybaby.


I decided to use 2 of the temp sensors, and i may use more when i can find a better way to run the wires still-comes with a small circuit board that can go at the back of the computer where the slooted vents are-also where the temp anf fan probes attatch to as opposed to internally mounting in a 5.25"bay in the front of the PC-i can shoot you a pic if you think i am putting way to many words in this. also need small suction cups to put the temp sensors in different levels of the tank to be more NERDY with it. Besides I have to blame somebody for the cut toe; that's the way it's supposed work *Zoomie! Gonna run the superfly on 2 FF tomorrow!*


----------



## Zoomie

IThanks ! I am impressed that the temp was acutually accurate.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

i am running with 3 of the temp sensors now, (1) is in the top of the light hood close to where the reflectors are and (2) of them are inside the tank at different levels, i will post a pic of the controller when the lights come on in 20 minutes.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

temp one is in the light fixture, temps 2&3 are inside the tank:


----------



## WONTON SALLY

since there is condensation in the hose, does that mean i have my fans down to low? also with the moisture in there does this mean algae/mold isn't far behind?


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> since there is condensation in the hose, does that mean i have my fans down to low? also with the moisture in there does this mean algae/mold isn't far behind?


You're moving air that is likely 90%+ humidity. I can't imagine that there wouldn't be condensation in there in some amount. Don't know if that will be a problem in the future. Perhaps a dab of silicone on the fan contacts to waterproof them would be a good idea. I sure hope that silicone is not connductive! 

How about taking a picutre of one of your temp sensors for me please. I want to se if they look like the ones that I have. 

And whatever you do, try not to lose another digit.


----------



## BethInAK

digit schmidigit. he still has 9.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> How about taking a picutre of one of your temp sensors for me please. I want to se if they look like the ones that I have.
> 
> HERE YO GO ZOOMIE:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And whatever you do, try not to lose another digit.












i was cutting a nylon strap off a display at work this morning and it didn't cut it all the way through, but the force i was putting on it made my hand go all the way down, well when it came back up i sliced right through my left index finger at an angle almost a 1/2inch. so i had to go get it glued and steri-strips. DOC didn't want to stitch it as it would have caused more trauma to the area as he worded it. anyways 9toes and 9fingers left. One more thing i left a trail of blood from where it happened to the bathroom a good 30+yards. thanks again ZOOMIE


----------



## BethInAK

Sally, you are the only person I know who is more accident prone than I am.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

bethinak said:


> sally, you are the only person i know who is more accident prone than i am.


 
*welcome to my life!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## WONTON SALLY

since my hydroton is still bone dry, would adding a few cups of water to it aid the tank any better? i don't have the mistking hooked up to it as i am ordering new nozzles later in the week. or is spray misting enough until then?


----------



## fishr

Mist well. All the photos of your tank/viv look to have little to hardly any humidity. 'Dumpin' water to the bottom could rot the roots.


----------



## Zoomie

Thank you Andy !

Sadly, I will no longer be asking you to take pictures. I'm afraid that the next time I ask, you'll end up qualifying for handicap parking!


----------



## Judy S

If you're married, I'd be afraid...so afraid...


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Mist well. All the photos of your tank/viv look to have little to hardly any humidity. 'Dumpin' water to the bottom could rot the roots.


 
keep in mind that the roots are elevated off the sphagnum by the peat cups.

what is a good amount of water to keep in the cups of the NEO's?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Thank you Andy !
> 
> Sadly, I will no longer be asking you to take pictures. I'm afraid that the next time I ask, you'll end up qualifying for handicap parking!


 
dude come on, let's not take the fun out of this just yet


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Judy S said:


> If you're married, I'd be afraid...so afraid...


 
came very close once, but thank GOD it didn't work out that way.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

looks like my TILLS are losing some colors, i mist them once a day in the morning. is once a day too much? they are about 60%-70% in the air from the bottom of the viv floor. should i raise or lower them tp get more/less light? any help will be greatly appreciated. i don't want to lose these as they have the possibility to be very vibrant. i have had another TILL in my cobalt tank and is still just green. it has the capabilities of being purple and pink, but has never shown any color changes and it is in the same height as my TILLS in the planted tank.


----------



## fishr

I keep my broms at 80-90% humidity as they are in my frog's vivs. You may need to mist 2x day instead.

You could also try affixing a background to the sides and back of the tank to help minamize some loss of light too.

EDIT What was your lighting system again? LEDs? Or T5HO's? And how many hours are you running them?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> I keep my broms at 80-90% humidity as they are in my frog's vivs. You may need to mist 2x day instead.
> 
> You could also try affixing a background to the sides and back of the tank to help minamize some loss of light too.
> 
> EDIT What was your lighting system again? LEDs? Or T5HO's? And how many hours are you running them?


 
14hrs on 12hrs off

25watt CFL 6400k 1800 lumens per bulb.

there is a piece of 18x18 cork tile on the back glass and about 30% of each side pane has GS with brown silicone and plantation soil mix.

may have to mist more than once a day.

if you have tills how do you water them?


----------



## fishr

Tillies are an unique brom, that's for sure. Speaking of which, one of the Mother plants is reaching the end of her lifespan and only has given me one pup so far - the wench! 

Because the humidity is high, the leaves are able to absorb it and this keeps them hydrated which nice. I don't have to remove every single one and soak them for any length of time. The beauty of a viv. However, tillies do not do well in completely sealed setups. Fresh ambient air flow is important, hence their nick name - air plants.

A single CP bulb may not be enough either but you also haven't had these plants very long. They could still be mildly stressed and adjusting.

What I can tell you is my setups:

20L -
(3) 26 watt CPL's, 64k's (can't remember the lumans at the moment). 
14 hours on
Tills, a fern, and 1 orchid

Exo 24x18x18
(2) 64k's T5HO w/ Tek Reflectors 
14 hours on
Tills, 1 neo, Reducta, Cape Sundew, wandering jew, orchid.

My neo is also capable of getting reds but I'd just interupt the Leuc's 'jungle jim.' lol I know it's happy because the leaves aren't yellowing or browning up and it is growing. 

You may need to add more wattages, I suggest another CP 26 w 64k, increase misting 2x day, and if funds aren't an issue, I would do more research on reflectors as an excellent one is worth its weight in gold. 

Pumillo helped me quite a bit in selecting a fixture since I'm an ex-reefer I know 'skimping' out on a cheapie just causes more headaches. He helped me decide on the Tek Reflectors and I've never been happier. My plants do great in this setup. 

In fact, my neo is sitting on the bottom, roots propped up slightly. I water the bottom once a month. There is no heat issue, hence no need for frequent watering. Misting is all I do.


----------



## fishr

Oh and Java Moss hates my guts since the lighting is bright. hahaha I had to try some and most of it died off. Only in the corners and 'caves' is where the java has kept its green color.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Tillies are an unique brom, that's for sure. Speaking of which, one of the Mother plants is reaching the end of her lifespan and only has given me one pup so far - the wench!
> 
> Because the humidity is high, the leaves are able to absorb it and this keeps them hydrated which nice. I don't have to remove every single one and soak them for any length of time. The beauty of a viv. However, tillies do not do well in completely sealed setups. Fresh ambient air flow is important, hence their nick name - air plants.
> 
> A single CP bulb may not be enough either but you also haven't had these plants very long. They could still be mildly stressed and adjusting.
> 
> What I can tell you is my setups:
> 
> 20L -
> (3) 26 watt CPL's, 64k's (can't remember the lumans at the moment).
> 14 hours on
> Tills, a fern, and 1 orchid
> 
> Exo 24x18x18
> (2) 64k's T5HO w/ Tek Reflectors
> 14 hours on
> Tills, 1 neo, Reducta, Cape Sundew, wandering jew, orchid.
> 
> My neo is also capable of getting reds but I'd just interupt the Leuc's 'jungle jim.' lol I know it's happy because the leaves aren't yellowing or browning up and it is growing.
> 
> You may need to add more wattages, I suggest another CP 26 w 64k, increase misting 2x day, and if funds aren't an issue, I would do more research on reflectors as an excellent one is worth its weight in gold.
> 
> Pumillo helped me quite a bit in selecting a fixture since I'm an ex-reefer I know 'skimping' out on a cheapie just causes more headaches. He helped me decide on the Tek Reflectors and I've never been happier. My plants do great in this setup.
> 
> In fact, my neo is sitting on the bottom, roots propped up slightly. I water the bottom once a month. There is no heat issue, hence no need for frequent watering. Misting is all I do.


well as an ex reefer my self i totally get the reflector and bulb setups. what size T5HO are over your tank? are than any fixtures i can buy with a badass reflector that can house a CFl's?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

or can i buy a decent reflector that will retro-fit into my current exo-terra dual light hoods, i have 2 of these.

are there any T5HO fixtures less than 24",, if not than i would just opt to get one that is 36" to cover both my 18x18x24's.


----------



## Neontra

Dual 24" T5HO AquaticLife 24" T5 HO 2 Lamp Fixture Marine AquaticLife 24 AquaticLife Lights AquaticLife T5 HO Light AquaticLife Light AquaticLife Lighting Dual Lamp T5 HO Aquatic Life

Single 24" T5HO Amazon.com: Hagen Glo T5 Ho Linear Fluorescent Lighting System, Single, 24-Inch: Pet Supplies

I think your lighting isn't good enough from bromeliads/tilladansias to show there full color, because there's simply not enough lumens.


----------



## fishr

Uhg, by the way that whole time I meant to type CF for compact floracents, not CP. Getting over a cold. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> I think your lighting isn't good enough from bromeliads/tilladansias to show there full color, because there's simply not enough lumens.


 
UHH i'm not sure you are correct about the lumens. they require 
2200-2800 lumens to remain alive, and a bit higher than that to remain vibrant in color.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Uhg, by the way that whole time I meant to type CF for compact floracents, not CP. Getting over a cold. Sorry for the confusion.


 
i was wondering what the heck you were refering too.

what fixture do you have, also know of any reflectors that i can put in my exo-terra hoods in the meantime?

i will be moving by the end of the year and plan on buying a 5tier shelf and put everything on that--i can mount the T5HO fixture under one of the shelves and avoid hanging it from the celing now. depending on how much a 36'' dual light fixture is will depend if i buy the shelf early and get the T5's as well.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> Dual 24" T5HO AquaticLife 24" T5 HO 2 Lamp Fixture Marine AquaticLife 24 AquaticLife Lights AquaticLife T5 HO Light AquaticLife Light AquaticLife Lighting Dual Lamp T5 HO Aquatic Life
> 
> Single 24" T5HO Amazon.com: Hagen Glo T5 Ho Linear Fluorescent Lighting System, Single, 24-Inch: Pet Supplies
> 
> I think your lighting isn't good enough from bromeliads/tilladansias to show there full color, because there's simply not enough lumens.


 
BTW i am throwing out 1800 lumens per bulb and i have 2 exo terra dual light canopys over each tank, so there should be very close to 3600 lumens in each tank. In my cobalt tank everything grows like a bad weed


im either looking for something under 24'' or one 36'' for both of my tanks. a 24'' wont cover both tanks as they are a foot apart as well.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

pics below courtesy of www.hellolights.com

i was thinking of doing this to the exo terra hood:
dimensions are-16" x 13" x 5" (LxWxH) $21.00$

that way i could use the bulbs i have and cut out a spot in the middle for the socket and bend it to fit in the hood i have.

or buy one of these: dimensions are-*36"L x 10"W x 2"H $30.00$*

that way i could cut it in half and use it for both of my hoods.

let me know what you guys think:
as i have (10) of my 25watt 6400k 1800lumens bulbs. they last just over a year that's why i don't want to jumo into T5's just yet as well.


----------



## fishr

WONTON SALLY said:


> pics below courtesy of www.hellolights.com
> 
> i was thinking of doing this to the exo terra hood:
> dimensions are-16" x 13" x 5" (LxWxH) $21.00$
> 
> that way i could use the bulbs i have and cut out a spot in the middle for the socket and bend it to fit in the hood i have.
> 
> or buy one of these: dimensions are-*36"L x 10"W x 2"H $30.00$*
> 
> that way i could cut it in half and use it for both of my hoods.
> 
> let me know what you guys think:
> as i have (10) of my 25watt 6400k 1800lumens bulbs. they last just over a year that's why i don't want to jumo into T5's just yet as well.


That's totally understandable if you have 10 of the bulbs. If I remember correctly, Hellolights is still a reptuable online store. That said, you had mentioned the plants in the viv with the frogs were growing like weeds. The first reflector looks nice. It's domed so the intensity of the lighting I think you'll notice will improve. 

About the brand of fixture I'm using for T5HO's:
Ready Fit 2 Lamp by Sunlight Supply, 24"

20" fixtures are obsolete, or at least finding 18" T5HO bulbs are. I gave up searching.


----------



## fishr

WONTON SALLY said:


> i was wondering what the heck you were refering too.


Haha. I play with carnivorous plants too much, AKA - CP's.


----------



## Neontra

Boy you guys, you should try Google 

Amazon.com: T5 High Output Two Lamp Fresh Water Light Fixture, 20": Kitchen & Dining

http://www.amazon.com/Nova-Extreme-T5-Saltwater-18Inch/dp/B000YHIB78

http://www.amazon.com/Current-USA-2x150w-HQI-MH-Lights/dp/B0017690ZM

http://www.amazon.com/AquaticLife-16-5-inch-Watt-Fluorescent/dp/tech-data/B004GX02R8

There you have a 2 bulb fixture for 60$, a 4 bulb fixture for 700$ (36") and a bulb. Lolzzzzz


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> Boy you guys, you should try Google
> 
> Amazon.com: T5 High Output Two Lamp Fresh Water Light Fixture, 20": Kitchen & Dining
> 
> Amazon.com: Nova Extreme T5 X2 for Saltwater 18Inch: Kitchen & Dining
> 
> Amazon.com: Current USA 36 inch Outer Orbit 2x150w 10K HQI-MH w/ 4x39W T5 HO & 18 Lunar Lights: Kitchen & Dining
> 
> Amazon.com: AquaticLife 16.5 inch 10K 18 Watt T5 Fluorescent Lamp: Kitchen & Dining
> 
> There you have a 2 bulb fixture for 60$, a 4 bulb fixture for 700$ (36") and a bulb. Lolzzzzz


 
the 3rd link is for a MH system, not trying to add heat. the 4th link is not valid and from my reefing days nova extreme was not a reputible product, also on the reviews from amazon most said they haven't been able to find replacement bulbs. 1st link is very high for what it is, i can get better bulbs and reflectors 36'' for less than $80$ thanks for trying.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr








Member

think i should buy the 36'' reflector and try it for both hoods?


----------



## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> the 3rd link is for a MH system, not trying to add heat. the 4th link is not valid and from my reefing days nova extreme was not a reputible product, also on the reviews from amazon most said they haven't been able to find replacement bulbs. 1st link is very high for what it is, i can get better bulbs and reflectors 36'' for less than $80$ thanks for trying.


Oh well, i'll keep looking. I used to know a very good company that made T5HO fixtures from 12 inches to over 48", but can't seem to find it. Thwe fourth link was an 18" replacement bulb.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> Oh well, i'll keep looking. I used to know a very good company that made T5HO fixtures from 12 inches to over 48", but can't seem to find it. Thwe fourth link was an 18" replacement bulb.


 
just don't want to have to worry about replacement lights every time i need new bulbs, if you find em let me know.


----------



## fishr

WONTON SALLY said:


> fishr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Member
> 
> think i should buy the 36'' reflector and try it for both hoods?


For the extra $9 bucks, I'd try it over both hoods. 

Neontra-
Metal Halides would fry his plants. MH's can fry a tank if the fixture isn't mounted several inches above a marine tank and with fans. Just for future reference. 

Wonton-
Instead of T5's in the distant future, have you giving any thought to LEDs for the plants?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> For the extra $9 bucks, I'd try it over both hoods.
> 
> Neontra-
> Metal Halides would fry his plants. MH's can fry a tank if the fixture isn't mounted several inches above a marine tank and with fans. Just for future reference.
> 
> Wonton-
> Instead of T5's in the distant future, have you giving any thought to LEDs for the plants?


yep, i have. my cousin is working with some CREE LED's. making his own fixtures, waiting to see how easy it comes out and if it will susutain NEO's?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> For the extra $9 bucks, I'd try it over both hoods.
> 
> Neontra-
> Metal Halides would fry his plants. MH's can fry a tank if the fixture isn't mounted several inches above a marine tank and with fans. Just for future reference.
> 
> Wonton-
> Instead of T5's in the distant future, have you giving any thought to LEDs for the plants?


i will give it a shot, when i get some tracking info i will post.


----------



## fishr

LEDs on Neos would be awesome.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

i agree 100%, if he gets them up and working I will post some pics.


----------



## Neontra

Took a bit more searching for this one.






Here's bulbs for it
True Lumen T5HO 12,000K Daylight Bulb Aquarium Fluorescent Bulbs

Oddly it says they discontinued the 10k bulbs but it comes with the fixtures 

Also comes w/ built in timers for LEDS and the lights


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> Took a bit more searching for this one.
> Amazon.com: 20 Inch 4x18 Watt AquaticLife T5 HO Light Fixture w/ 2 Lunar LEDs: Home & Garden
> Comes with 4 20w T5HO 10000k bulbs and 2 1w lunar LEDS
> 
> This comes with 2 20w T5HO 10000k bulbs and no LEDS
> Amazon.com: T5 High Output Two Lamp Fresh Water Light Fixture, 20": Kitchen & Dining
> 
> 
> Here's bulbs for it
> True Lumen T5HO 12,000K Daylight Bulb Aquarium Fluorescent Bulbs
> 
> Oddly it says they discontinued the 10k bulbs but it comes with the fixtures
> 
> Also comes w/ built in timers for LEDS and the lights


thanks for your research, the 1st one is quite pricey. the 2nd one looks pretty good, do you think the replacement bulbs on that might too much?


----------



## Neontra

In the ways of kelvin temperature, it might be too much, but not 100% sure. I've only heard people using 5500-6700k bulbs for plants, but I have a plant catalog that sells T5HO 12,000 fixtures/bulbs and says it's great for plants.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> In the ways of kelvin temperature, it might be too much, but not 100% sure. I've only heard people using 5500-6700k bulbs for plants, but I have a plant catalog that sells T5HO 12,000 fixtures/bulbs and says it's great for plants.


 
might be great for the extra smelly plants- HINT, HINT!

i ordered the 36'' reflector and it will be here next wednesday. i hope that will give my tank the extra bling to get my tills to "POP" again.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

this is growing in my cobalt tank and couldn't get an answer so that is why I am posting it here:
this is absolutely crazy. this is my Assorted Gesneriad, and this is what is growing off of it inside the tank:

INSIDE THE TANK


OUTSIDE THE TANK SHOT


----------



## Judy S

com'on now...Shirley you jest...


----------



## Zoomie

I belive that it is a mold. Nothing to do with the Ges. There is another post around here about it. Maybe in the ID section.

Oh and as I recall, it was harmless.


----------



## Zoomie

Here you go. Silme Mold. See the third post:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/id...t-fungus-mushroom-has-taken-over-my-tank.html


----------



## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> this is growing in my cobalt tank and couldn't get an answer so that is why I am posting it here:
> this is absolutely crazy. this is my Assorted Gesneriad, and this is what is growing off of it inside the tank:
> 
> INSIDE THE TANK
> 
> 
> OUTSIDE THE TANK SHOT


Yup that's 100% slime mold. You can wipe it off, but it might come back. I'm just starting to see it in my tank, and it looks pretty cool. It's harmless.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

when i looked at the tank this morning it was all gone again, i was hoping it was a sprout from the plant.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Here you go. Silme Mold. See the third post:
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/id...t-fungus-mushroom-has-taken-over-my-tank.html


 
thanks again Zoomie.


----------



## Judy S

sorry...I thought you were just using a plastic thingy from an aquarium shop...that was pretty neat actually...thanks for the link...interesting stuff, especially that it is beneficial....


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Judy S said:


> sorry...I thought you were just using a plastic thingy from an aquarium shop...that was pretty neat actually...thanks for the link...interesting stuff, especially that it is beneficial....


what are you refering too?


----------



## Judy S

That slime mold looked like some of the plastic stuff that you see in aquarium shops with that lacy look...that's why I thought it was a joke!! And the information about how it was real, not uncommon, and harmless was useful information...sorry to have confused anybody...


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Judy S said:


> That slime mold looked like some of the plastic stuff that you see in aquarium shops with that lacy look...that's why I thought it was a joke!! And the information about how it was real, not uncommon, and harmless was useful information...sorry to have confused anybody...


 
gotcha, but yeah it was the real deal.

on another note i changed my 25watt 6400k 1800-lumens per bulb to some of the same but stronger 35watt 6400k 2400-lumens per bulb. so if there are any color changes i will see them before my reflector shows up on wednesday.


----------



## Neontra

WONTON SALLY said:


> gotcha, but yeah it was the real deal.
> 
> on another note i changed my 25watt 6400k 1800-lumens per bulb to some of the same but stronger 35watt 6400k 2400-lumens per bulb. so if there are any color changes i will see them before my reflector shows up on wednesday.


How are you dealing with heat? With 2 13 watt 900 lumen each bulbs will heat my 29g up to the lower 90s if I don't raise it AND have a huge fan blowing hot air out. I'm seeing all these people including you using high wattage CFLs with no heat issues.


----------



## Nicholas

WONTON SALLY said:


>


Im glad to see you made it out of this build alive sally


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Neontra said:


> How are you dealing with heat? With 2 13 watt 900 lumen each bulbs will heat my 29g up to the lower 90s if I don't raise it AND have a huge fan blowing hot air out. I'm seeing all these people including you using high wattage CFLs with no heat issues.


Trust me there is heat issues but you just gotta find a way to keep the lights cool.
I have 2 23w CFLs 1,450 lumens a peice and 6500k a peice. Both cramed into a small 10"x4" fixture. The fixture is very cool and not hot to the touch at all.
I have the fixture sitting right on top of the tank but I have a fan blowing straight on it (literally)and it's only a 10g and it stays in the mid to high 80s
I was told 13w CFLs just won't cut it.
Sometimes bigger fans aren't always better and my fan is one of those good metal bladed fans.
The internal circulation fan might be helping keeping temps down. I doubt it does much tho.
But yeah me and Andy/Wonton Sally just have fans sitting right behind our fixtures.
Maybe it also helps that where the fans are sitting behind the fixtures and blowing the hotness away from the tank instead of having a fan blowing towards the tank and if your tank is against a wall well that air is just hitting the wall and not going anywhere lol
Also the fan is just blowing on the lights instead of a larger area in which a smaller fan is best to focus the air on the lights instead of everything else.
From what I see it's the fan and not the lights.
Also raising ir up a it for airflow underneath helps. I have mine rasied about ¾"
What type of fixture are you using btw?
You could just get small cpu or laptop fans and cut you some holes out and install them to where they are sucking the hot air out of the fixture like how they have the fans on Power Compact reefing fixtures.
I hope this helps


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> since my hydroton is still bone dry, would adding a few cups of water to it aid the tank any better? i don't have the mistking hooked up to it as i am ordering new nozzles later in the week. or is spray misting enough until then?


Yes keeping water in the bottom will help with humidity and keep things moist.
When I drain my tank I leave ¼"-½" of water in the bottom. I don't drain it all.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> pics with the glass open and closed:


Don't you hate how cameras don't really register the blue LEDs well.
My fan's LEDs give the whole tank a moonlight look yet if I go to take a pic then the whole tank is dark yet when you're looking at it with your naked eye the tank is lit up.
I wish I could get a pic of how well my fan's LEDS light up the tank enough to give it a moonlight glow...


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Neontra said:


> How are you dealing with heat? With 2 13 watt 900 lumen each bulbs will heat my 29g up to the lower 90s if I don't raise it AND have a huge fan blowing hot air out. I'm seeing all these people including you using high wattage CFLs with no heat issues.


 
not sure what to tell you, must be the internal fans i have.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Nicholas said:


> Im glad to see you made it out of this build alive sally


helps keep it fun.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Don't you hate how cameras don't really register the blue LEDs well.
> My fan's LEDs give the whole tank a moonlight look yet if I go to take a pic then the whole tank is dark yet when you're looking at it with your naked eye the tank is lit up.
> I wish I could get a pic of how well my fan's LEDS light up the tank enough to give it a moonlight glow...


 
they are actually purple.


----------



## Neontra

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Trust me there is heat issues but you just gotta find a way to keep the lights cool.
> I have 2 23w CFLs 1,450 lumens a peice and 6500k a peice. Both cramed into a small 10"x4" fixture. The fixture is very cool and not hot to the touch at all.
> I have the fixture sitting right on top of the tank but I have a fan blowing straight on it (literally)and it's only a 10g and it stays in the mid to high 80s
> I was told 13w CFLs just won't cut it.
> Sometimes bigger fans aren't always better and my fan is one of those good metal bladed fans.
> The internal circulation fan might be helping keeping temps down. I doubt it does much tho.
> But yeah me and Andy/Wonton Sally just have fans sitting right behind our fixtures.
> Maybe it also helps that where the fans are sitting behind the fixtures and blowing the hotness away from the tank instead of having a fan blowing towards the tank and if your tank is against a wall well that air is just hitting the wall and not going anywhere lol
> Also the fan is just blowing on the lights instead of a larger area in which a smaller fan is best to focus the air on the lights instead of everything else.
> From what I see it's the fan and not the lights.
> Also raising ir up a it for airflow underneath helps. I have mine rasied about ¾"
> What type of fixture are you using btw?
> You could just get small cpu or laptop fans and cut you some holes out and install them to where they are sucking the hot air out of the fixture like how they have the fans on Power Compact reefing fixtures.
> I hope this helps


Tis does help, thanks! I will have to hook up a small fan, then. The fixture i'm using is just a CFL fixture for aquariums, nothing special. It has 2 big vents on top. When I put my hand on it it's pretty dang hot.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

it should work for you using the fans across your fixture, i was doing it to help with the condensation on my cobalt tank when the fan i had in there was on its way out, replaced the internal fan and stopped using the fan to blow across the fixture.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Neontra said:


> Tis does help, thanks! I will have to hook up a small fan, then. The fixture i'm using is just a CFL fixture for aquariums, nothing special. It has 2 big vents on top. When I put my hand on it it's pretty dang hot.


That's exactly what I'm using...
It's an old incandesant aqaurium hood that I cut to fiit the top of my tank.
















Here you can see I used square dowels to rase it up...spray painted them black then siliconed them to the fixture.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

what bulbs are you using again?


----------



## fishr

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Don't you hate how cameras don't really register the blue LEDs well.
> My fan's LEDs give the whole tank a moonlight look yet if I go to take a pic then the whole tank is dark yet when you're looking at it with your naked eye the tank is lit up.
> I wish I could get a pic of how well my fan's LEDS light up the tank enough to give it a moonlight glow...


Umm... Those LED's for the night are pretty epic. Look so nice.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

fishr said:


> Umm... Those LED's for the night are pretty epic. Look so nice.


i was just mentioning that with my LEDs on you cant really see how much they light up the tank...


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

wow i looked at the pics while im here at my dad's house and they light up the tank well....maybe it's just my phone.
I'm gonna try to upload a pic of my LED moonlights and see how it turns out on here.
nah it's the camera on my phone :/
I'm gonna get good pics with his camera...


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Umm... Those LED's for the night are pretty epic. Look so nice.


 

the pics don't do them any justice.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> i was just mentioning that with my LEDs on you cant really see how much they light up the tank...


 
pics don't make em' shine.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> pics don't make em' shine.


yeah i know what ya mean.
mine isnt as bright as yours and judging by how mine show up in pics yours is probably 2xs as bright.
mine just give the tank a soft glow


----------



## WONTON SALLY

reflector showed up, here it is. it does have a yellow protective film on it, so it doesn't shine. once i cut it i will post before mounting it.









also i recieved my nozzles yesterday, it is a quad mister, might go down to 2 as 4 is like a monsoon in the tank.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

here is the fixture with the new reflector put in it, makes it way more bright, i will try to get some compairison pics in a bit:


----------



## WONTON SALLY

here is the old one with doors closed left, and the new on the right.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

after a few weeks i will take some more pics once they have adjusted from the reflector a bit more.


----------



## Zoomie

Andy, are you happy now? Do you feel like you have been vindicated?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Andy, are you happy now? Do you feel like you have been vindicated?


i sense a little hostility in that post Zoomie?


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> i sense a little hostility in that post Zoomie?


Karma beating me down after you cut youself taking pics for me. I was chasing an escapee while doing a transfer. It won't happen again though. All of the death glass from Lowes is in the trash now.


----------



## Neontra

Or maybe he just purposely cut him self from the depression!


----------



## Zoomie

Neontra said:


> Or maybe he just purposely cut him self from the depression!


Not possible. Tanks are coming together nicely. Tads are in the water. Chazutas from UE in November. I am downright giddy!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> Andy, are you happy now? Do you feel like you have been vindicated?


when i posted on this the picture didn't show up, but yeah nice to see someone else bleed for a change


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie, BTW the cut is not deep enough count!!!!


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

My reflectors are old and dingy. I plan on replacing them soon

How is the ciculation system working out for you?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

so far so good.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> so far so good.


Cool cool.
Well have you thought about putting a fogger in there? Well not in there but hooking one up to it.
I've always wondered if you use a fogger will it cut down on your light output or haow much light gets to the plants o.o


----------



## Zoomie

WONTON SALLY said:


> Zoomie, BTW the cut is not deep enough count!!!!


I apologize. I'll try harder next time.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Cool cool.
> Well have you thought about putting a fogger in there? Well not in there but hooking one up to it.
> I've always wondered if you use a fogger will it cut down on your light output or haow much light gets to the plants o.o


wouldn't the fog settle on the bottom, if it did cover the plants I would think it would cut down on the total light output.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Zoomie said:


> I apologize. I'll try harder next time.


practice makes perfect, i can vouch for that!!


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> wouldn't the fog settle on the bottom, if it did cover the plants I would think it would cut down on the total light output.


nah the fog shouldnt settle until the fogger turns off.
i asked a few people and they said no it wont hurt the plants the light goes through it.
if you think about it not much light gets to the forest floor...


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> nah the fog shouldnt settle until the fogger turns off.
> i asked a few people and they said no it wont hurt the plants the light goes through it.
> if you think about it not much light gets to the forest floor...


i think you answered your own question from a few posts ago.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> i think you answered your own question from a few posts ago.


nah I did some research


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> nah I did some research


 
well if you know where i can get a fogger for less than $60bucks i will try it.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> well if you know where i can get a fogger for less than $60bucks i will try it.


well you can use and ultrasonic humidifier that is sold in like Target and stuff.
they are on ebay pretty cheap like for $30

check out these threads
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/70083-vicks-humidifier.html#post613103
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...walgreens-personal-humidifier.html#post623403

and these vids


----------



## WONTON SALLY

seems simple enough, i will get one next week and let you know.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> seems simple enough, i will get one next week and let you know.


I"m trying to find one myself and put it on my tank...
btw you should go check out my thread I got some good pics from a better camera that really shows how my LEDs look.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I"m trying to find one myself and put it on my tank...
> btw you should go check out my thread I got some good pics from a better camera that really shows how my LEDs look.


i looked at the new pics of your LED's, but like me the camera just don't do them justice. i see tons of humidifiers on ebay, but like the kid in the 2nd video says you need one that has the removeable cap on top that will allow you to put in a pvc fitting for the hose and most of the pics on ebay just show a side shot of the humidifier not allowing you to see the top


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> i looked at the new pics of your LED's, but like me the camera just don't do them justice. i see tons of humidifiers on ebay, but like the kid in the 2nd video says you need one that has the removeable cap on top that will allow you to put in a pvc fitting for the hose and most of the pics on ebay just show a side shot of the humidifier not allowing you to see the top


um they all have to have an output hole mayne


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> um they all have to have an output hole mayne


yep, but not all have one that is removeable!!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

i have been having trouble with my air plants or tills. i have had one particular in the cobalt tank for 3 months, hasn't really grown, but as well it hasn't changed colors like it could either. anyone else have some tips to get them to grow and color?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Well Dragon here you go, i went with a smaller one to see how i would like it $18$ at walgreens:









if i like it i will either (A) return it and buy the big boy one or (B) just keep it and still buy the big boy one.
so this is the lid to it that is removeable:









i then siliconed this reducer to it:--in the smaller hole on the left.









then ran the hose into the reduced fitting side and then it was ready to go:









i will post a pic of the output in a few, i did buy a SPLITTER or T fitting to run a dual output to my cobalt and the planted tank as well.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> Well Dragon here you go, i went with a smaller one to see how i would like it $18$ at walgreens:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if i like it i will either (A) return it and buy the big boy one or (B) just keep it and still buy the big boy one.
> so this is the lid to it that is removeable:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i then siliconed this reducer to it:--in the smaller hole on the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then ran the hose into the reduced fitting side and then it was ready to go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i will post a pic of the output in a few, i did buy a SPLITTER or T fitting to run a dual output to my cobalt and the planted tank as well.


sweet 
how is it working out for you?
be sure to put it on a times cause you cant run it around the clock or it will break down...
btw Andy the name is Brandon...I wish I was a dragon


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> sweet
> how is it working out for you?
> be sure to put it on a times cause you cant run it around the clock or it will break down...
> btw Andy the name is Brandon...I wish I was a dragon


well good to know Brandon, camera battery died last night--takes a few hours to charge. i will post some in awhile. I as well would love to be a DRAGON, that way when people piss me off i could fly over their house and well you know the rest, don't want to be too descriptive


----------



## WONTON SALLY




----------



## WONTON SALLY

here is a pic of the NEO DOMINO-hopefully mine will be more purple:


----------



## WONTON SALLY

the one decent pic i find won't copy and paste i will try again later.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

got it this time:


----------



## BethInAK

Sally, whats that stripey one? i covet it.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

BethInAK said:


> Sally, whats that stripey one? i covet it.


 
are you refering too the one in the back right corner of this tank?

it would be called PERFECTION according to the label stick i have with it, otherwise i couldn't tell you the names for the NEO's i have/


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


>


very nice....it doesn't seem to be putting out as much as others i have seen.
I noticed there is a knob to adjust it....is it turned all the way up?
also is this after it has been running for a bit or is this before the fog has had time to fill up the tank?
I think this one would actually be perfect for my small 10g vert.
now I just have to talk my dad or step mum into giving me a ride to Walgreen and to Lowes.....


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> very nice....it doesn't seem to be putting out as much as others i have seen.
> I noticed there is a knob to adjust it....is it turned all the way up?
> also is this after it has been running for a bit or is this before the fog has had time to fill up the tank?
> I think this one would actually be perfect for my small 10g vert.
> now I just have to talk my dad or step mum into giving me a ride to Walgreen and to Lowes.....


 
i didn't want to have to drill my vent hole any bigger in the canopy, so to remedy that i put the hose on the inside of the fitting as opposed to the outside which would have increased the diameter of the hole for the hose to fit in 1/2inch, so it is quite possibly restricting the flow of steam.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> i didn't want to have to drill my vent hole any bigger in the canopy, so to remedy that i put the hose on the inside of the fitting as opposed to the outside which would have increased the diameter of the hole for the hose to fit in 1/2inch, so it is quite possibly restricting the flow of steam.


ah but does the fog eventually fill up the tank?


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> ah but does the fog eventually fill up the tank?


 
if i turn all the fans off.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185

here are some pics with more ("STEAM") in the tank:


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> here are some pics with more ("STEAM") in the tank:


fog mayne not steam lol
steam is hot


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> fog mayne not steam lol
> steam is hot


 
well then the fog is hot as well.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> well then the fog is hot as well.


i don't think it's suppose to be warm...
is that a cool mist humidifier or you type of humidifier that makes the fog using steam o.o


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> i don't think it's suppose to be warm...
> is that a cool mist humidifier or you type of humidifier that makes the fog using steam o.o


it is warm coming out of the unit, but at the end of the hose it is cool.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

My NEO DOMINOS came today with a NEO BRANDYWINE as a bonus for a mix up, they are soaking for a few hours right now to rehydrate them. i will post some pics in a few hours.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

here are the Domino's and the Brandywine:


----------



## frogbelly

where did you order your broms from?
Barry


----------



## frogparty

The yellow tag gives it away! Michaels bromeliads


----------



## WONTON SALLY

frogbelly said:


> where did you order your broms from?
> Barry


 
www.tropicalplantz.com
A.K.A.
Jason Desantis

Jason has always been awesome to deal with and answered any and all P.M.'s and questions!!


----------



## WONTON SALLY

frogparty said:


> The yellow tag gives it away! Michaels bromeliads


 
sorry, but you are wrong:

www.tropicalplantz.com
A.K.A.
Jason Desantis

I do what ever I can to use only our sponsor's when it comes to this hobby.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

Domino's are doing fine colored a little better over the last few days, on a side note i had a fan die on the push/pull system i have on the canopy glass, it is a easy fix--simple fan swap and problem solved.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> Domino's are doing fine colored a little better over the last few days, on a side note i had a fan die on the push/pull system i have on the canopy glass, it is a easy fix--simple fan swap and problem solved.


already? wow that's weird...I would definitely take it back if you got it at a PC store or contact who you got it from and tell them what happened.
I don't think it was suppose to fail that quick


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> already? wow that's weird...I would definitely take it back if you got it at a PC store or contact who you got it from and tell them what happened.
> I don't think it was suppose to fail that quick


 
for $5$ it's just easier to replace it with a spare I have.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

still waiting to replace fan, been lazy to change it the last few days. I can still the air coming from the intake side of the fan duct even though the exhaust side is the fan that is out of comission. good air flow.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> still waiting to replace fan, been lazy to change it the last few days. I can still the air coming from the intake side of the fan duct even though the exhaust side is the fan that is out of comission. good air flow.


yeah good thing about that system you mad if one fan fails you're still gonna be ok


----------



## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> yeah good thing about that system you mad if one fan fails you're still gonna be ok


 
the fans I have spin at 5200 RPM at their peak, I will replace it this wednesday as I have the other PVC from when I tried it with the 40mm fans, so i can get the 60mm fan cured to pvc fitting then I will swap them out.


----------



## fishr

Just for a grow-out tank, how much have you roughly sunk into this project? xD

I guess for me, if I were to have a grow-out tank, it'd be kept more simplistic in design with LED lighting or T5HO's.


----------



## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> Just for a grow-out tank, how much have you roughly sunk into this project? xD
> 
> I guess for me, if I were to have a grow-out tank, it'd be kept more simplistic in design with LED lighting or T5HO's.


 
Don't hate, APPRECIATE!!


----------



## fishr

WONTON SALLY said:


> Don't hate, APPRECIATE!!


My apologies if I offended you. It wasn't my intention. The neos look happy and I'm sure they love the fog.  I always liked the 'fog effect.' Maybe I'll have to incorperate it into a future project.

It never ends.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

fishr said:


> My apologies if I offended you. It wasn't my intention. The neos look happy and I'm sure they love the fog.  I always liked the 'fog effect.' Maybe I'll have to incorperate it into a future project.
> 
> It never ends.



nah you didn't offend Andy he has a silly sense of humor.
I have came to the conclusion that fog isn't really natural and makes things like a bit generic but with Grimm's peninsula tank he has fans that move the fog around a lot so it just looks cloudy so you don't really see that stream of fog coming in from some point.

most of the fog I have ever seen comes up from the ground or is in the canopy so if i ever do a fog system I'm gonna do it coming up from the ground instead of coming from the top of the tank because coming from the top doesn't look realistic.

I mentioned the fogger to him for the tills and broms and to help him keep the humidity up without having to do so much misting.


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## WONTON SALLY

fishr said:


> My apologies if I offended you. It wasn't my intention. The neos look happy and I'm sure they love the fog.  I always liked the 'fog effect.' Maybe I'll have to incorperate it into a future project.
> 
> It never ends.


it's all good in the hood, once i move early next year and get the 5 tier shelf for the tanks i will get some T5HO's in place of what i am currently using.


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## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> nah you didn't offend Andy he has a silly sense of humor.
> I have came to the conclusion that fog isn't really natural and makes things like a bit generic but with Grimm's peninsula tank he has fans that move the fog around a lot so it just looks cloudy so you don't really see that stream of fog coming in from some point.
> 
> most of the fog I have ever seen comes up from the ground or is in the canopy so if i ever do a fog system I'm gonna do it coming up from the ground instead of coming from the top of the tank because coming from the top doesn't look realistic.
> 
> I mentioned the fogger to him for the tills and broms and to help him keep the humidity up without having to do so much misting.


 
i agree about the fog coming in from the bottom as opposed to the top, but i worry about drilling on the side glass and it cracking and ruining the whole tank.


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> i agree about the fog coming in from the bottom as opposed to the top, but i worry about drilling on the side glass and it cracking and ruining the whole tank.


nah you run the risk of cracking glass anywhere and if it cracks it can be fixed...
here is my turtle tank that got cracked and I fixed it.









as you can see on the right side i have patched the glass.
yeah it doesn't look very cosmetic and whatnot but it holds water lol
I would drill the back of the tank and use a hose and make the hose at the level of where the leaf litter is gonna be and spray GS around it and do you background and it will just go across the bottom of the tank and substrate.
I'm sure the springtails would love the cover of fog but it may be harder for the frogs to spot the prings and also hard for you to see your frogs..


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## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> nah you run the risk of cracking glass anywhere and if it cracks it can be fixed...
> here is my turtle tank that got cracked and I fixed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as you can see on the right side i have patched the glass.
> yeah it doesn't look very cosmetic and whatnot but it holds water lol
> I would drill the back of the tank and use a hose and make the hose at the level of where the leaf litter is gonna be and spray GS around it and do you background and it will just go across the bottom of the tank and substrate.
> I'm sure the springtails would love the cover of fog but it may be harder for the frogs to spot the prings and also hard for you to see your frogs..


If I am going to drill a tank it will be when it is empty, if I broke it drilling I would just buy another tank as I couldn't stand to look at the crack or repair job everyday- it would drive me freaking nuts. I took the small personal humidifier back as i plan to buy a bigger one soon.


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> If I am going to drill a tank it will be when it is empty, if I broke it drilling I would just buy another tank as I couldn't stand to look at the crack or repair job everyday- it would drive me freaking nuts. I took the small personal humidifier back as i plan to buy a bigger one soon.


yeah well if it's on the back then you don't have too look at it lol.
I will be definitely be buy some panes of glass and practicing all day long until I master drilling glass.


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## WONTON SALLY

replaced the bad fan with a new one, and airflow is back to normal and humidity is more stable as well, thanks again for the design BRANDON. I will be doing this on my cobalt tank once i get so more fans.


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> replaced the bad fan with a new one, and airflow is back to normal and humidity is more stable as well, thanks again for the design BRANDON. I will be doing this on my cobalt tank once i get so more fans.


you're welcome man.
I plan on doing a system like this on bigger tanks I make


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## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> you're welcome man.
> I plan on doing a system like this on bigger tanks I make


it is a stable design, moves a lot of air as well. I will continue to use it as i progress in the hobby as well.


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> it is a stable design, moves a lot of air as well. I will continue to use it as i progress in the hobby as well.


sweet I'm glad I could be of some help


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## WONTON SALLY

it seems that the return fans are having problems running upside down, the intake has been stable, but each day it seems the rpm's decrease daily.


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> it seems that the return fans are having problems running upside down, the intake has been stable, but each day it seems the rpm's decrease daily.


are they on full blast?


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## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> are they on full blast?


 
FULL BLAST is my middle name!!!


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> FULL BLAST is my middle name!!!


turn them down lol. I have mine set on 9v when it can go up to 12
keeping it on full blast will burn them out more quickly


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## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> turn them down lol. I have mine set on 9v when it can go up to 12
> keeping it on full blast will burn them out more quickly


i am going to try and get a angled piece of PVC so the fan will be able to run in the vertical position as opposed to running in the horizontal position, i also believe this decreases the run time just like the 1st one did.


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> i am going to try and get a angled piece of PVC so the fan will be able to run in the vertical position as opposed to running in the horizontal position, i also believe this decreases the run time just like the 1st one did.


yeah that might help but also you don't wanna run them wide open all day everyday.


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## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> yeah that might help but also you don't wanna run them wide open all day everyday.


At night I usually cut the RPM's in 1/2 once the lights go out.


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## DragonSpirit1185

lets see some updated pics 
I'm sure those broms have opened more or something lol


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## fishr

Just checking in. How are the Neo's Wonton? And are they putting out any color yet?

I picked up a fireball today. 

My next viv will be a 20g hex, maybe a 35, and will be devoted to orchids, neos and probably a nice fern for ground cover and maybe a fern that can be mounted. Have some research to do.


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## DragonSpirit1185

yeah Andy...how's it going?
update please


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## WONTON SALLY

Thanks for all the replies, i have taken some time off from the boards to just sit back and enjoy both of my tanks, without having my hands in there every hour messing with something or what not. I will post some pics as everything has grown and adjusted nicely IMO. After the holidays I will be at home for a few months I will be back to posting on a every hour basis as i did before. I will post the pics in a few days once my new battery for my camera comes in.


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## WONTON SALLY




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## DragonSpirit1185

how long do broms take to pup lol I figured you would have a couple pups or something

looking good tho.
I am using CFLs too but I don't see why my broms have lost color but yours have too....
I don't think CFLs are really the best light source and I am beginning to think about moving onto something else.

Your broms had all that color and they went green just like my one on the bottom, it was mostly maroon or something and now it is mostly green.

before:









after(today):









see...lost it's color and the other two aren't as bright either....I want my red brom back lol
btw what happened to all the tills?


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## fishr

His tills are there but they're done flowering. One of my tills has pupped, and the mother is passing away. At least I have a second generation. Another till is beginning to flush red in the leaves so maybe it'll flower for me.

Broms are kinda a weird plant. Just look at a pineapple.


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## DragonSpirit1185

fishr said:


> His tills are there but they're done flowering. One of my tills has pupped, and the mother is passing away. At least I have a second generation. Another till is beginning to flush red in the leaves so maybe it'll flower for me.
> 
> Broms are kinda a weird plant. Just look at a pineapple.


Yeah I bought a till and it flowered then began to die. I moved it under the fan and it is staying alive some but it half the size it was. The other till on the top is fine but hasn't flowered yet. Then the big one in the center has flowered and it is just fine. Tills are so tricky lol, well to me anyway.


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## WONTON SALLY

i have had poop luck with tills, the one till in my cobalt tank just now after 6months started to grow another sprout off it, although it has never colored or flowered, but it might be doing that now. the tills in the planted tank just stayed alive but with no new vibrance to their colors. I will put the BROM's outside late spring this year and hopefully get colors back into them.


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## fishr

Missouri is arid isn't it to put tropical plants outside?


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## BethInAK

i thought missouri was humid and hot as a witches..oh wait, better not.


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## WONTON SALLY

BethInAK said:


> i thought missouri was humid and hot as a witches..oh wait, better not.


You nailed it, that is why the Brom's will go outside for trials to color back up, if they don't inside the tank 1st.


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## DragonSpirit1185

there has to be some kind of lighting that will keep the color on the broms...


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## WONTON SALLY

WONTON SALLY said:


> i have had poop luck with tills, the one till in my cobalt tank just now after 6months started to grow another sprout off it, although it has never colored or flowered, but it might be doing that now. the tills in the planted tank just stayed alive but with no new vibrance to their colors. I will put the BROM's outside late spring this year and hopefully get colors back into them.


 
I hate to quote myself, but I saw pups on 2 of the RED tills i have, can't remember what they are. One of the tills has 3pups and the other has one. If all goes well they will be a wicked red and yellow i hope.


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## WONTON SALLY

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> there has to be some kind of lighting that will keep the color on the broms...


not sure, has ZOOMIE had the same problems?


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## DragonSpirit1185

WONTON SALLY said:


> not sure, has ZOOMIE had the same problems?


Idk...
I sent Zoomie a PM days ago maybe even a week ago....idk if he is around anymore


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## BethInAK

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> there has to be some kind of lighting that will keep the color on the broms...



My two broms in my garg tank under the single LYR LED bulb are coloring like crazy - they are up high though.


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## WONTON SALLY

BethInAK said:


> My two broms in my garg tank under the single LYR LED bulb are coloring like crazy - they are up high though.


 
what kind of bulb are you using?


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## fishr

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> there has to be some kind of lighting that will keep the color on the broms...


Bought a Fireball Neo in late Dec. Note this thread. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...cent-enclosure-brom-solitary-confinement.html

It was pure green but under 8 watts of a single Power Compact, it colored up nicely by late January. In my 50 cent containor, humidity was always above 70% without any air movement. This brom is now in my 20L under 1x 26 watt Exo 2.0 and a 20 watt 6500 Kelvin bulb. Color is still there.

Keep in mind Kelvin only measures the color temperature. Wattage is just important.


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## BethInAK

WONTON SALLY said:


> what kind of bulb are you using?



its a bulb from Light Your Reptiles - a screw in with a bunch of leds on it.


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## toksyn

I'm using the 26W spots from Light Your Reptiles, and I've managed to bring out even more color on N. ampullacea and my N. Dominoes are a really deep purple. They are about 12" - 18" under the lights.


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