# Yet another build thread(29G)



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Hey guys I am new to Dart Frogs and building complete Vivariums; this will be my first build. I am leaning towards Leucs at the moment, although that could change depending on what is available in AZ. I will be posting up a bunch of pictures as I go so feel free to comment on anything! 

I have read A LOT of your postings of builds and other various topics, so now it's time for me to dive in. Here we go!

I got the idea to mark out where I want to silicone from somebody doing a build on this forum. Laid it out and filled it in with the black silicone. Purpose for doing this was to have a cleaner look on the outside of the tank and to let the Great Stuff to stick better/longer. The two pieces of wood in these pictures are oak driftwood I collected and sanitized. 

I will be using Hydroton and ABG mix from Joshs Frogs. The delivery should be here by tuesday latest. I also ordered some Cypress wood from him and I will see if I can incorperate that without being too cramped.

I hope you guys enjoy yet another build! Post any thoughts or concerns please. 

Mark


----------



## nschmitz06 (Feb 20, 2011)

Will be following this thread, cant wait to see more updates!


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

I am starting the foaming process tonight, hopefully I have enough! These pictures are the progress after one can used. I thought I would try to make a ledge using a skinny branch of Manzanita and some left over mesh screen. We will soon find out if that was a good idea or an epic failure. 

I'm going to let the first can cure for a bit and then add in the finishing touches with the second hopefully.

Thanks for looking!


----------



## Bighurt (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm planning the same build for my first, will be some time before I start. As one should have a home before one tries to give a frog a home...LOL 

Following with interest.


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Yeah that might be a good idea.  The second can is curing now. All I can say is that stuff takes up a lot of space!


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Ok so here is the Great Stuff after curing. I think it turned out pretty well. The manzanita ledges turned into more of a mound....

The GS pulled away from the silicone on the left side some overnight, so I threw some extra silicone down the side. Hopefully that will hold it in there.

So should I carve the background or leave it as it is?

Let me know what you think everyone!
Thanks!


----------



## Ryan (Feb 18, 2004)

Keep an eye on that wood, I don't think it has the best track record in humid environments. You could always seal it to prevent rot.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Manzanita, Oak and Cypress should all be fine. It's grape wood that gets a bit moldy. I like grape wood thought. The mold goes away and the bugs move in.


----------



## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

I would carve it out a little to make a few ledges and crevices. Just my opinion tho, and be careful.. when I get to carving, its hard to stop and I end up with less than half of the foam that was originally put in.


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up on the wood, I guess if it starts to rot it will just look more "homely" haha. I will start the carving today. I'll post a pic of it halfway done so you can see the process better. The tools I will be using is an exacto knife and a Dremel tool if need be 

Stay tuned!


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Hey guys here it is all carved out. I switched from my Droid to my wifes Digital SLR camera, so the pictures should be better from now on. I tried to not go too crazy with the carving process because I like the look of the way it expands. I made five or six ledges and two planting holes with a drainage hole in the bottom of each. The right side will have a cave about five inches deep, and the frogs will have two entrance holes. 

Also, the first picture is the area that has expanded off of the glass. I mushed some silicone into the crack after it expanded. Will that be good enough to hold it longterm?

I will be covering the background with a mixture of coco husk, Sphagnum moss, and ground walnut shells. I believe this will get me the texture I desire, plus allow vining plants a hold for the roots.

Please let me know what you think of it!
Mark


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

If anyone cares here is a picture of the coco husk, sphagnum moss, and walnut pieces mixed together. It is drying overnight on my porch...here's to hoping for a non windy night!!!

Mark


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Well luckily I brought in the background mix because it rained all night last night. 

When I got home from work I was greeted with a package from Joshsfrogs.com, inside was my hydrtoton, ABG mix, five three inch net pots, two Plastic hinges, leaf litter, and three Cypress Wood pieces.

Once I was done checking out the box of goodies I got to work. It took me about an hour to put my soil mix onto the GS background. It looks like it sticks better when you are generous with the Silicone(heads up). 

How long should I wait before setting it upright and brushing it off? The silicone says it is paintable in 3 hours, so I figure if I wait 5 hours then it should be good to go. Any advice on this would be appreciated

Let me know what you think so far!
Mark


----------



## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Nice build so far..... however, I usually wait a week or two for the silicone to fully cure... since you applied a lot, I would wait it out. You can go ahead and stand it upright and let the excess dirt come off now though.

One to two weeks is average for me.... but I'd rather wait til the smell is gone. I put a fan on it for the first couple of days to circulate it too.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

are you going to have a false bottom?? Do you have a method in mind for being able to suction off any accumulation of water in the bottom of the tank?? How about adding some washed, smashed up real charcoal to keep the soil sweet and for the future isopods? Do not use the manufactured charcoal briquets...use washed hardwood charcoal or charcoal that is used with plants. Good start...you'll be hooked...waking up in the night planning your next project...thinking about a water feature...


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks for the replies! I will wait until the smell is gone, that should mean it is cured I suppose. I used a little less than two tubes on the entire background.

About drainage.....I saw a post on here a while back that someone siliconed a piece of PVC to the bottom of the tank with holes in the sides so they could suction out water with a turkey baster. I'm thinking of going along those lines to get it out. 

Where would I come across this charcoal for the viv?

Yeah I decided to skip the water feature for my first build. Seemed like more of a headache than anything...

Mark


----------



## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

The ground walnut shells may have been a bad idea, as they contain and release juglone which is a toxic growth inhibiter of plants. I do not know it's effects on amphibians.


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

hmm, that isn't good. I hope it will be alright, it's a little too late now I guess. The bag says if ingested it will pass through animals systems without harm. Hopefully it won't harm the plants. I put in a quart of the ground Walnut shells for the background mix. I guess at this time only time will tell.

Thanks!
Mark


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

mrfrogdude said:


> hmm, that isn't good. I hope it will be alright, it's a little too late now I guess. The bag says if ingested it will pass through animals systems without harm. Hopefully it won't harm the plants. I put in a quart of the ground Walnut shells for the background mix. I guess at this time only time will tell.
> 
> Thanks!
> Mark


You could mix up a bit without the walnut to lay on top, to decrease the frogs change of ingesting. Of course with a nice leaf litter on top of that


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

epiphytes etc. said:


> The ground walnut shells may have been a bad idea, as they contain and release juglone which is a toxic growth inhibiter of plants. I do not know it's effects on amphibians.


I made a similiar response to another post...but they were going to use English walnuts...not black walnuts, which I do know has jugalone--a poison through the entire tree, including the dropped nuts, prevents seeding and growth of all sorts of plants under the entire tree canopy. Like this post, however, they intend to use English walnuts so I advised they investigate this issue on garden sites that are reputable. As a gardener and a person with livestock, I am really sensitive to the use of black walnut, as well as cherry, anywhere near my livestock or garden...


----------



## brod322 (May 27, 2011)

Nice build, it looks great so far. I might try your method on my next viv. Good luck with the finished product


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Ok, I got the background cleaned up after applying my mixture. I think I will be alright with the Walnut pieces in the mix because maybe two tablespoons worth of it actually stayed in the tank. Also, this will NOT be used in the substrate. I am using ABG mix from Joshsfrogs. 

A little tip for the other "newbies" out there. I used a straw to blow the excess product off of the background. That way you dont accidentally pull off stuck product when brushing with your hand. 

Alright, what do you think of the Cypress knee in the Viv? If you think it looks good in there then in what position looks best to you? I think I like the first picture with the Cypress in it.

Enjoy!
Mark


----------



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i like the phallic cypress in between the branches in the middle!!

that looks fantastic!!! I really liked your carving - it was exactly the right amount!


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

BethInAK said:


> i like the phallic cypress in between the branches in the middle!!
> 
> that looks fantastic!!! I really liked your carving - it was exactly the right amount!


Agreed. Looks like its coming along quite nicely. I look forward to seeing your future progress.

mrfrogdude, great idea with the straw. I'll have to try that next time.


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Thank you very much! Im glad to see that you all approve so far. Making the viv so far has been really fun! 

Now I just have to find an appropriate piece of pvc for the drainage, and also a place to hide it.....

My biggest issue will be the planting, I have not done much with live plants in the past. Hopefully I will get them in a week or so.

Mark


----------



## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Coming along nicely.... 

I like this one:


----------



## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

Wow looking really awesome. I like the mixture you made for the background. Cypress knee aint bad, a little phalic in the last pic, but not bad.


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Yeah I didn't notice that until I read your post, I have another cypress piece I'm gonna try that is a little wider. 

I put in an order with joshs frogs for a 29 gallon plant kit as well as a few extra plants. I wanted to keep ordering plants as basic as possible for my first viv. Does anyone have a link on what to do with plants when they arrive? As far as re-hydrating, and sanatizing goes?


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Ok I found a piece of Cypress that worked better I think. It is Siliconed to the bottom of the tank now. I also added the Hydroton. Do you think that is enough thickness for good drainage? It's around 3-4 inches deep all the way across. That will leave room for around 2-3 inches of soil mixture, then leaf litter on top of that.

You might notice a toilet paper roll in there as well. No worries, I'm just using that to judge how long of a piece of pvc I will need to stick above the dirt level. I will get the pvc, silicone and coat it(to disguise it), then plant a plant on the cap. Then I can just pop the cap off and suction water out with a turkey baster! The pvc will be lined with silicone on the bottom and then slide into the paper towel roll. When I stick it to the glass I will pull the paper towel roll out and just be left with the pvc. 

Feel free to comment please!
Mark


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

from experience, let me say that that cypress knee will not work well for one reason.

the light is blocked from the front of the piece, which means that your very likely to have a little dead area (completely void of plants) where the shadows lie (including the entire front of the piece of cypress). its one of those things you dont think of until 6 months in when the plants you put in are dead and its just too hard to remove the peice.

james


----------



## gootswa (Mar 16, 2011)

Judy S said:


> I made a similiar response to another post...but they were going to use English walnuts...not black walnuts, which I do know has jugalone--a poison through the entire tree, including the dropped nuts, prevents seeding and growth of all sorts of plants under the entire tree canopy. Like this post, however, they intend to use English walnuts so I advised they investigate this issue on garden sites that are reputable. As a gardener and a person with livestock, I am really sensitive to the use of black walnut, as well as cherry, anywhere near my livestock or garden...


Yup that would have been me. I intend not to use them at this point, I did further research and found out that although they contain the same toxins in smaller amounts it is probably a good idea not to use them. If you wouldn't have mentioned that to me, I could possible have some sick frogs in the near future.


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

This is just going to be temporary lighting until I get the money for a T5 system. This is how it will look with the three cfl's on top. In the other picture I just threw the lights up there to snap a pic. There isnt much of a shadow with them now.

I guess I will just plant a low light plant around the front edge or something and hope it works...

Mark


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Hey guys,

I went and picked up some pvc and a pvc cap for my drainage today. I simply drilled a bunch of holes in the lower half of the pvc and then siliconed on some more of my background mix. Now when the water builds up too much in the Hydroton I can just pop off the cap and then turkey baste the water out, then pop the cap back on when I'm done. 

I then added some left over screen on top of the Hydroton to keep the soil from traveling into it. I left a couple small strips in the tank open to that it could still get some water back up to the soil, just not too much. 

I will be getting and planting my plants tomorrow, I really have no idea how to really do it effectively so any help is greatly appreciated! Here's the breakdown of what is coming.......

*Bromeliads - three small bromeliads and two medium bromeliads
*Ferns - two ferns or selaginella
*Vining plants - three different vining plants (each either one rooted plant or two unrooted cuttings)
*Assorted tropicals - four plants

I also ordered these individually besides the plant package:

*Pilea 'Baby Tears'
*Krauss' Gold Spikemoss

Any input is greatly appreciated!
Mark


----------



## Vinnner (Oct 1, 2010)

Tank looks great.

Was just reading the last page really and just an idea but maybe see how that lighting does for now. I have read wuite a few threads now on lower lighting and started testing it with my tanks about two weeks back. i see a lot more of my frogs and have heard alot more calling out of my varaderos and even my two caucheros that are in quaratine. Again just an idea1

But again tank look awesome. good work

Vinny


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Sorry I'm a little confused, but you are saying that you like the results with the 65k cfl's better than the t5? Just making sure I am understanding you right 

Again anyone with planting tips would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you,
Mark


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

broms should be placed high in the terrarium, mounted to the wood or the background,. you can use toothpicks, staples, sewing pins, hot glue, thread, fishing line, etc. to mount them to your liking. they appreciate being close enough to the light to remain damp but not wet. drying out (standing moisture on the leaves gone) between watering is helpful and will keep your broms happy and healthy. 

ferns can be tricky and it really depends on the type of fern you get, but most dont do standing water on the fronds. they also need to dry out. most need to keep their feet relatively dry (not stuck in saturated substrate) as well. this can be acomplished by planting them high enough to let the lights dry them out between waterings, but if your soil drains well and your humidity and misting schedule is on point they will do just fine planted in the substrate.

the selaginella (kraussiana) has never done well for me. it melts away in my tanks (presumably from being kept too wet) ive had MUCH better luck with S. uncinata which grows like a weed in my tanks. no matter where in put it, it grows well.

vining plants both rooted or unrooted can simply be pushed into the substrate, they will grow just fine if left like that.

as far as the tropicals... thats too big of a category to say one thing or another. im assuming you'll get some terrestrial plants, some of which may be inappropriate for your build. i find that things generally labeled as "tropical" tend to be viv UNfriendly (usually in mature size, rate of growth or growth habit) but you wont know til you get them.

you should wash away ALL soil, or planting medium, trim roots from broms completely and 1/3- 1/2 from everything else, then sanitize all your plants for 15 minutes in a 10% bleach: 90% water solution and rinse them thoroughly afterwords.

james


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks that clears up a lot for me. Looks like I may have to replace a few plants, but I'll throw them in and see if they survive. 

I'll put some pics up when I get them in tonight.

Mark.


----------



## nschmitz06 (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm excited to see some plants in there soon!!! Lots of room for your froggers to jump around--


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Yeah I'm excited to see it all planted as well! I tried to leave a lot of floor space for them. The bottom of the large wood piece will act like a perfect feeding area : )


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

On my way home I saw the USPS truck delivering my plants  Perfect timing!

I will pretty much let the plants tell the whole story....

I took pictures of the plants as I unwrapped them(they are from Joshsfrogs).
Here is the plant list in no order:
-peacock spikemoss
-wandering jew red
-Dischidia foemanosa
-Pilea friendship
-tiny tears
-baby tears
-gold spikemoss
-wandering jew Bolivian
-Authurium mekani
-black rabbit
-Pelonia watermelon
-2 medium broms
-3 small broms(one with a pup!)

Should I add the leaf litter now or wait a week? Also, how long do I need to wait to take the toothpicks out that are holding up the broms?

Let me know if there is anything detrimental that I need to change! How do you think my first Vivarium turned out?

Thanks for looking, and please comment!
Mark


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Some side shots...


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

just so you know, the plant in the right corner (pellonia pulchra) will probably overtake your tank in no time it also tends to get an ugly "leggy" look in vivs.

the bolivian wandering jew will do the same IME

now add some leaf litter 

james


----------



## gootswa (Mar 16, 2011)

Looks awesome planted dude, nice job!


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

I will have to keep an eye on those plants, thanks for the heads up! 

How long until the plants should be stable and rooted?

Now I just have to decide on the species of frog I want.....haha
Mark


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Does anyone have a guess as to when it will be safe to take the toothpicks away from holding up my broms?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Bump...
Anyone know the above?

Thanks
Mark

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Well here is a picture of my setup all done except for getting my frogs. I will be getting a group of young Azureus from Aaron at Arizona Tropicals the middle of August. 

I also picked up a culture of springtails and two varieties of Isopods from Aaron today. 

I'm not sure if the dome lighting will be sticking around for long...

Mark


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Thought I would update this with a few pictures of the inhabitants. I got four Azureus froglets in hopes of getting a 2.1 trio in the end. Well here are some pics, hope you enjoy.

I will also post a grow in shot in the near future, I took out the baby tears because it was getting leggy, and moved a couple others.

Mark


----------



## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

just went through your thread. great build! hope your frogs are doing great. Aaron is a good! I've gotten a lot of help from him in the past. hope all your plants are doing well! Oh and if your looking to change up your lighting. I am using just a 2 lamp fixture that i picked up at walmart for like 20 bucks and then just replaced the bulbs with grow bulbs and it works awesome on my exo terrarium!


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Are they just a dual T8 setup? How much did the replacement bulbs run you? I'm running the 3 20w cfl bulbs right now, might jump up to 26w instead. I think that extra boost would be perfect. If I would choose to do it over I think the only thing I would change would be so many broms. They use up a lot of light that could be used for the lower plants, and the Azureus don't need them.

And the three cfl's are in an exoterra hood. Much cleaner look than the dome lighting.

Mark


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Here is my first bloom in one of my Broms. I have heard that they don't last long after they flower, bummer. It's pretty while it lasts though!

Mark


----------



## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

Bloom looks awesome! Love that purple.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

mrfrogdude said:


> Here is my first bloom in one of my Broms. I have heard that they don't last long after they flower, bummer. It's pretty while it lasts though!
> 
> Mark


it takes quite a while for the broms to go through the bloom/dying off phase and in the meanwhile, there are pups that will grow alongside the mother plant. Sometimes you get lucky and there is more than one...so you can "divide" it...replace one of the "pups" and move the new one somewhere else. Its kinda funny that most people go to like Lowes, and will only buy a brom when it is in bloom...they don't know the life cycle of the plant....


----------



## mrfrogdude (Jun 26, 2011)

Thanks for the info on the broms! More excitement to come then : )

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


----------

