# Cultures are doomed



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I have a ton of cultures started and non are producing. They start to produce then get this hard crusty moldy layer on top of the media and no more larva or flies. And the biggest problem is I have 5 frogs in transit to me as I type, will be here tomorrow and with the number of flies I have on hand unless I order more they are not going to last long. Any idea what is going on? I can get some pictures if that would help but now I am really worried. I definitely can not afford to order flies all the time but it seems that I can not culture them either. HEEELLLLPPPPP !!!!!


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I ordered the frogs because I thought I had culturing flies down but now I don't know.


----------



## asilsdorf (Sep 7, 2005)

Are you using a mix with a mold inhibitor? 

Could the media simply be drying out?

You may want to order some flies from one of the DB vendors along with some media at least until you get the hang of it.


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

This is going to kind of be a pain but can you tell us step by step your process, where you keep them and what temp and stuff? Do you use the plastic cups with the vented lids? Do you use a media that you purchased from someone or did you use on of the homemade recipes?
Candy


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I am using media from Josh's Frogs and making per the instructions on the package. I am also using his cuts and lids. I keep them in the bathroom under the sink since the BR seems to always be pretty humid and it is a warm room. It could very well be that they are dried out but I even tried spraying a little water on the crusty ones and it did not help. Perhaps it was too late and I need to mist my cultures once a week?


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

What type of filler are you using in your cultures?
Candy


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Excelsior.


----------



## asilsdorf (Sep 7, 2005)

What are you using for the FF to climb on in the cups? coffee filters excelsior, etc?

What color is the "crust"? 

Any chance that you can post a picture of one of the cultures?


----------



## asilsdorf (Sep 7, 2005)

Candy, you beat me to the post


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

The crust is white mostly with a few spots of black/dark green. I'll try to get a couple shots.


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

type of flies? melos or hydei? also i would order in a hurry then. the frogs will be ok for a couple days until they arrive. just order from josh producing melos. put somewhere where you have some kind of mite control and it sounds like the media is too dry...mistin down will help ...i do it for my hydei at times....but you have a mold issue. going to have to put them somewhere else. actually under the sink is where mold usually is in the house. not a good idea perhaps. put on a shelf in a room with vents closed for melos. hydei i pit into bins with ventilation but they take longer to boom so i do that just so they dont dry out. I also spray them down if they do look a little dry. kristy


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

The picture sucks, lighting was bad and I didn't feel like breaking out the tripod. But you can pretty clearly see the separation of the good media and the crust. Like I said it is pretty white in person, much lighter than the tan in color media.


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

They are hydei. There is not much mold but a little. It is more of a dried out crust which is probably all it is. I guess from reading posts on here it did not seem that misting fly cultures was something that was needed at times so to me it just seemed like my cultures were really bad. I have some fresh ones that I will keep misted and in the meaning time I will also find a better place for the cultures. I checked Josh's and he does not have any producing cultures for hydei, just the others. I guess I will email him to see if he has some that might not be listed on the site.


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

i would get his melos...easy...booms frequently....lasts longer...what you photo shows is a crust yes, which you could have sprayed down if caught in time. hydei take longer to culture and i think melos for the beginner culturer, then try hydei. get the already producing melos and make sure you order two day shipping, so they arrive alive and full of fruit flies. culture and feed from those. kristy


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

the crust looks to me to be lots of media and old casings of the pupa. this happens when you dont have alot of climbng spaces for the larvae. most dont affix themselves on the glass/plastic and simply sit on top of the media. they just attach to each other and build until it is a hard thick layer. this coupled with your media bieng just a little too dry would do it. and mold could have subsequently grown on that. ive had it happen.

and ps kristy is right go with the melanogasters. their lifecycle is 1/2 that of the heydei. meaning that if this happens again... you can recover much quicker. also i dont know how old the frogs your getting are but heydei can be big for some froglets. melos are good primary source heydei are good to mix in sometimes. imo 

also stagger your cultures so that you have constant supply, at least in the beginning. make more than 1 culture at a time. if you loose 1 you will have more. its better to spend a little more time and $ to make two than to be frantically looking for food so that your frogs dont starve to death. 

good luck
james


----------



## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

You need to add more water. Don't be afraid to get it close to the point where if you tip the cup it starts to look like it's about to pour out but keep it somewhat thick. After 20 days of producing (this to the beginning of their fly production) you've lost a lot of water due to evaporation. You need to compensate.

-Nish


----------



## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

take them out of the bathroom there are more mold spores floating around i a bathroom than probably anywhere else in you house plus to much change in temp every time you get a shower or a bath. also you want some light to get to them that will help too. mold grows best in the dark. hope this helps
Steve


----------



## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

If there's mold it's because it's not wet enough. The mold inhibitor in Josh's media won't work unless it's dissolved/wet. You need more water in your cultures initially.

-Nish


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I will take all the advise given. As far as the flies and the frogs, I am getting juvenile terribilis so the hydei size should not be an issue. I will move the cultures and also make them slightly runnier to start. I am ordering a couple melanogaster cultures as well to get started. Thanks again everyone for the help.


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

Nubster said:


> Thanks everyone. I will take all the advise given. As far as the flies and the frogs, I am getting juvenile terribilis so the hydei size should not be an issue. I will move the cultures and also make them slightly runnier to start. I am ordering a couple melanogaster cultures as well to get started. Thanks again everyone for the help.


terribillis especially at that age do not need hydei. in fact my 10-11 month mints prefer the melos for some reason. And it takes them a loooooong time to mature. 2-3 years to expect calling or any attempts at breeding. melos make by joshs recipe and mist lightly down the bakers yeast he will provide. hydei make just a bit runnier and put into a rubbermaid bin or something to make sure they dont dry out. if you notice drying, spray down. mine have done this and have returned to bloom. also make sure the hydei are at their bloom or you wont get the females and males you need....so order producing ones and makes sure to wait till they are blooming to culture hydei and make melos right away. IMO you should just concentrate on melos right now. then get the hydei and have time to experiment around with. kristy


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

sorry just to add info.....make by recipe. even put little bit of extra water for hydei. i usually do this with a mister. to get it just right. use dry measuring cups for dry ingredients and the wet measuring one for the liquids. makes a difference with my cultures. sorry for the repost. i'm sure josh's terribillis are only a bit past 3 months old??no need for hydeim imo at this time. really. kristy


----------



## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

I had the same problem when I started trying the hydei . I tried everything I could think of with no effect on the mold . What finally fixed it was , after making the clutures normally how I always did them , after 1 week I would open the cups and mist them a little with a little water . That's it . That fixed the problem I haven't had mold since . And I have been using just the regular Josh's melo formula .


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Yeah, he said they were 3-4 months old. I am getting ready to order new flies now. Can I use the media that came with my hydei fly kit or do I need different media? I have lots of brewers yeast and I can get lots of instant yeast for pretty cheap if I need to make my own media. Or perhaps I should just buy another kit? They _are_ 10% off right now.


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

Nubster said:


> Yeah, he said they were 3-4 months old. I am getting ready to order new flies now. Can I use the media that came with my hydei fly kit or do I need different media? I have lots of brewers yeast and I can get lots of instant yeast for pretty cheap if I need to make my own media. Or perhaps I should just buy another kit? They _are_ 10% off right now.


hydei media will work. they will like melos at this age better chad. mine at 10-11 months still like only the melos. just sprinkle a small pich of bakers yeast on top of the hydei mix and mist lightly to activate. they usually wont dry out. keep them in a room with shelves and vents closed on mite paper or sprayed paper towels with mite spray. you'll love how much they can boom...and keep doing it. kristy


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

the media will work for either. personally i use formula 4-24 from carolina biological supply. it comes in large quantities i think my last bag was like 2.4 kilo. but i usually have to add almost twice the recomended ammount of water. one thing people didnt seem to mention about heydei... if they get out they can and will overrun your house. there are numerous reports of this. and they arent easy to get rid of.


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

james67 said:


> the media will work for either. personally i use formula 4-24 from carolina biological supply. it comes in large quantities i think my last bag was like 2.4 kilo. but i usually have to add almost twice the recomended ammount of water. one thing people didnt seem to mention about heydei... if they get out they can and will overrun your house. there are numerous reports of this. and they arent easy to get rid of.


james...hydei are escape artists ..indeed, but i have had plenty of escapes and wouldnt say they are a problem. here is a trick i use for both around my tanks...even though sealed....and in the fruit fly room, my sugar glider room etc...i put a cup/bowl of apple cider out and a drop or two of dishsoap. they drown and cannot get out. I use this method around my sterilite bins quarantines. but again chad, melos are the way to go for now.


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I have 3 producing cultures ordered along with a kit. Should be here in a couple days.


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

Nubster said:


> I have 3 producing cultures ordered along with a kit. Should be here in a couple days.


good stuff....then when you receive, feed out half of the flies and culture half...kristy


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

yea joshs melo cultures are amazing producers... you should have way more than enough. i even had to get rid of some so that the cultures wouldnt overpopulate themselves. and i've never personally encountered heydei problems but the breeder i get my frogs from has had big problems with them, so he says, and if he complains im sure it was bad, seeing as how he now uses normal melos exclusively. and let me tell you even with a few hundred winged fly cultures he doesnt seem all that bothered. so the heydei had to be real bad. i think that they too may have been the normal variety though.


----------



## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

I have yet to have a problem with Josh's Hydeis (flies or media). The trick is definitely to use quite a bit of media and to keep it very wet at first as by the time the eggs begin to hatch, the water in the media could have dried substantially. Also, the media will continue to dry during the whole production run. I've found that the hydeis also consume a ton of media during production so using a lot helps to keep a culture going. I'm currently filling the cup approximately 1/4 of the way up with media since the larva go through it rather quickly during development.

-Nish


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I'll keep that in mind Nish. I have not been filling mine up that much. Next cultures I will make it a little wetter and mist now and then to keep moist and fill them up a little more and see how that goes.

Thanks everyone for the help.


----------



## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

If you make them rather wet to begin with and keep them in a plastic shelving unit or something similar that will keep the media from evaporating too much, you shouldn't have to ever mist them.

-Nish



Nubster said:


> I'll keep that in mind Nish. I have not been filling mine up that much. Next cultures I will make it a little wetter and mist now and then to keep moist and fill them up a little more and see how that goes.
> 
> Thanks everyone for the help.


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

nish07 said:


> If you make them rather wet to begin with and keep them in a plastic shelving unit or something similar that will keep the media from evaporating too much, you shouldn't have to ever mist them.
> 
> -Nish


misting is just last resort for hydei. but for the age of terribillis you are getting, set cultures on shelves with some sort of mite control and feed melos and seed with springtails and even woodlice. nish is right on concerning hydei and putting them into a bin. It was a trial and error when i first started culturing them. i would either add too much water in hopes of them not getting dry, but then they would be all wet and drain to the top of the culture when i was feeding out and had to throw away. i find putting them into those plastic rubbermaid shelving stackables a very good idea. misting is my last resort if i did the media too dry. well i think we have all given you the best advice and this thread is getting long lol. if you need a pic of the shelves i use, i dont mind for the hydei. for melos i do put 1/4 media in too. they last longer for me. But not as concerned about them drying out as i mist the bakers yeast lightly on top....just make sure it looks like a nice moist mashedpotatoes kind of idea. kristy


----------



## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

You may want to try a mixed melanogaster and hydei culture. The melanogaster will keep the media churned up to give those hydei larvae a fighting chance.

I've done this many times in the past with much success.


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

Hmmm...that is an interesting idea. I may try a culture or two like that to see what happens.

I also made a few new hydei cultures yesterday, this time I made it per the instructions but in addition I added some baby food (mixed fruit) that I havd left over from the little one and it made a great consistency plus the added fruit will hopefully help some too. I figure at this point I should have plenty of melans to feed out so I might as well experiment a little with the hydei. If I start getting short I can get new cultures in 2 days from JF.


----------



## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

here's my recipe that i use for melano's The Kapok Tree | Reptile and Amphibian Information look under ff recipe. i have used it for 5ish years and the flies complete their cycle in 2ish weeks, with maggots appearing the 5ish day. i have tried culturing hydei and i have never gotton them to work. who knows why, but imo melano's produce a lot more.


----------



## Nubster (Jun 16, 2008)

I checked my cultures today and I started new cultures of melano's on the 11th and I have larva already. Not a lot, but some. I am very happy about that. At least I know my froggies are not going to starve. I'll take a look at your recipe too otis. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Axl (Dec 9, 2006)

This is my recipe:

Boil:
2 mushed banana
3/4 glass of grape juice concentrate
3/4 of apple sauce
1/8 cup of molasses

Mix:
1 cup of instant mashed potatoes
1/2 cup of brewers yeast

Mix:
1 cup of water
1 cup of vinegar

Once the boiled mix has cooled to a reasonable temperature add 12 tablespoons of it to a plastic container. Then add 2 - 3 tablespoons of the dry mix and then 4 tablespoons of the water/vinegar mix.

You can add some baker's yeast if you want. Let it solidify for 12 or more hours.

This is my version of this recipe.
I have lot's of maggots on the 5th day and you can be sure that your frogs will never starve.


----------

