# Dart Frog Nicknames Confusing



## Guest (Jan 4, 2006)

I am confused about the different types of dart frogs. There are Dendrobates, Phyllobates, and Epipedobates.... I guess the nicknames are what's confusing me. What are mantellas, and what are thumbs? And what are other nicknames and their scientic names used on this forum? Thanks!


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

You are really asking for a lot of info with that question, which probably can't really be fully answered this way. You would do better to do a Google search for your various questions, and that way you can see pictures and species discriptions. Mantellas are not poison dart frogs, but a completely different species. They are very similar to dart frogs, however. Thumbs are thumbnail frogs, which are smaller species of poison dart frogs. They are usually harder to keep, and do not get as big as the others. I would not call any of the names nicknames, but rather scientific vs. common names. Listing them all here would be a tedius task, however. Like I said, do a search on them and you can learn a lot. Suarian.net has some good pictures and descriptions. You can find where each species comes from and learn a little about them. good luck!


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Dendrobates, Phyllobates, and Epipedobates are three different genuses of frogs. Dendrobates include, tinctorius, leucomelas, auratus and pumilio for example, phyllobates include bicolor and terribilis, and epipedobates includes tricolors and trivittatus.

Moving on...thumbs or thumbnails are usually arboreal frogs including pumilio, imitator, retics, and vents etc. They are quite small frogs (about the size of your thumbnail ). 

Mantellas are another genus of frogs that come from madagascar. They require much cooler temps and high levels of ventilation. Some mantellas are viridis, pulchra, milotympanum, cowanii, madagascariensis, among others.

Other nicknames:

Dendrobates fantasticus = fant
Dendrobates galactonotus = galac
Dendrobates granuliferous = granny
Dendrobates imitor = imi
Dendrobates leucomelas = leuc ("luke") 8) 
Dendrobates pumilio = pum
Dendrobates reticulatus = retic
Dendrobates tinctorius = tinc
Dendrobates amazonicus = ami
Dendrobates ventrimaculatus = vent
Dendrobates trivitattus = trivi
RETF = Red Eyed Tree Frog

If for example there is a subspecies (ie morph) or a specific species such as Dendrobates tinctorius, they are refered to with the morph name. So a Dendrobates tinctorius "cobalt" would be called just a cobalt.

Well those are some that I thought off the top of my head. There are definitely more though. 

Luke


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

As an old biology teacher of mine once told me "The problem with common names is that they are so... common".

My major focus is orchids, and you can't even begin to imagine the number of common names that a single orchid species might have. Frogs are similar. I'd get in the habit of using the scientific (some call these 'latin' although that isn't strictly true) names. Each species has only one valid scientific name (although you can still get some things with two or more names if the taxonomists are still arguing about something). For everyday use, we use what is called binomial nomenclature, which means everything gets two names, a genus and a species. Try this link which I wrote a long time ago... http://www.msu.edu/~halgren/orchids/species.htm 

So, rather than call something a green and black poison frog (or any of its other multitude of common names), say Dendrobates auratus. Technically that should be _Dendrobates auratus_ or Dendrobates auratus, some sort of font change to indicate you are using the technical name, but that is harder to do on the internet. The genus is always capitalized (Dendrobates), and the specific epithet not (auratus). Or, if everybody is on the same page, we can abbreviate, for example D. auratus. So, when we talk about Dendrobates tinctorius, you immediately know that tinctorius and auratus are closely related, they are in the same genus, Dendrobates. 

That help?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Hey Luke,

As noted by Corey (HeroHero) elsewhere - the original definition of "Thumbnail" frogs was the Ventrimaculatas/Imitator/Retic (etc) group.

That did not include pumilio.

The definition appears to be changing (morphing if you will) - but thought I would mention the "classic" definition of Thumbnail Frog.

s


Darks!de said:


> ... Moving on...thumbs or thumbnails are usually arboreal frogs including pumilio, imitator, retics, and vents etc. They are quite small frogs (about the size of your thumbnail ).


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Maybe we need to have a Dendroboard Glossary. back2eight - be very careful how you use some of those terms like "species" - they have very specific meanings in some cases and misuse causes more confusion.

Scientifically speaking, Poison Dart Frogs (aka Poison "Arrow" Frogs - which is incorrect as the poison was used on darts, not arrows) are from the family _Dendrobatidae_. Within the family are a good number of Genera, of which the most common in the hobby are _Dendrobates_, _Phyllobates_, and _Epipedobates_, although both _Allobates_ species are in the hobby (relatively uncommon), and some other even rarer frogs from other genera. Sometimes "_Phobobates_" and "_Minyobates_" are used although these are no longer accepted. The hobby has a serious time lag with accepting taxonomic changes, and you'll see new and old names used. A good place to look at "up to date" accepted names is the Amphibian Species of the World. It doesn't tell you much other than the names, but its a decent taxonomic reference. PDFs are under the family _Dendrobatidae_ as mentioned before, Mantellas (which I'll get to in a bit) are Family _Mantellidae_, Subfamily _Mantellinae_, Genus _Mantella_.

Continuing on the taxonomic track, there is a "grouping" for frogs between genus and species level to group together closely related frogs that don't differ enough from the other groups within a genus to be a seperate genus - these are called species groups. There is no longer a site that accurately lists the species groups, as they are in the middle of an overhaul (actually, the whole family is) due to a lot of genetic work. I would just let the taxonomists worry about which frog is where, its the concept right now that you want to know.

The species group concept is actually the basis for some frog "slang" we use in the hobby, mainly the "tinc group frogs", "thumbnails", and "eggfeeders" - these are interestingly enough all groups from _Dendrobates_, which is the genus most highly represented in the hobby. The slang represents groups of frogs, one or more species groups, with certain characteristics they share from a hobbyest's view. 

The "Tinc group" frogs are based directly off the _D. tinctorius_ species group - _D. tinctorius, D. auratus, D. galactonotus, D. azureus, D. truncatus,_ and _D. leucomelas_ I believe. 

The "thumbnail" group is based of the _Dendrobates quinquevittatus _group originally - this group will probibly be broken up do to some genetic work and what not, but these species groups will still be classified as "Thumbnails". The basis of the "Thumbnail" classification is breeding habits more than size (former _Minyobates, E. tricolor,_ and _D. pumilio_ are sometimes called "thumbs" due to their small size but they don't have the same breeding techiniques so they shouldn't be lumped in this group). "Thumbs" are non-obligate/facultative/pseudo eggfeeders, meaning their tadpoles will eat infertile eggs provided by their mom, but will eat other things as well. This means that mom and dad can raise the tads, and/or you can take the tadpoles out and raise them yourself. Some of the thumbnails in the hobby include _D. imitator_ (including all 3 subspecies and their morphs), _D. fantasticus, D. reticulatus, D. quiquevittatus, D. lamasi,_ and _D. ventrimaculatus_.

The "eggfeeder" group is also based off a couple species groups, which share the common behavior of having such specialized tadpoles that they can only digest the infertile eggs provided by the mother. This means you cannot raise them by yourself, they have to be parent raised (tho some people have tried to raise them themselves with varying degrees of success). _D. pumilio_ is the only readily available one in the hobby, mostly due to FR imports, and D_. histrionicus, D. lehmanni,_ and _D. granuliferus_ are around in incredibly small numbers due to difficultly in keeping, breeding, and raising the young past 6 months of age.

Mentellas are another group of tropical aposematic (warning coloration) frogs but from Madagascar, not latin america. They are a genus, have different breeding habits, and have slightly different requirements in care, but otherwise are a pretty decent example of convergent evolution.

Edited for _italics _ to be scientifically correct and picky.


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2006)

thanks!! I have been reading a lot about the names.. i just haven't seen "thumbs" used in my books.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Luke, tsk tsk on you. Pumilio are egg feeders! And Thumbs as a whole are not arboreal, the group seems to range from highly terrestrial to extremely areboreal. D. retics, as you listed, as well as D. castaneoticus and D. quinquevittatus are actually terrestrial species 

Common names don't really work for a lot of the PDFs due to the range in morphs... I mean, what about a Kahlua & Creme morph "Green & Black" D. auratus? A Kahlua is neither green nor black! What about a Yellow & Black PDF? Is that D. leucomelas, D. truncatus, D. histrionicus, D. lehmanni, D. tinctorius... see the issue? That name could apply to a lot, and not the species as a whole, just a morph or two.

This is why common names in the hobby are generally scrapped, too much confusion, we use the common name and try and standardize morph names.

I do think there needs to be a bit of a standardization in terms here, I'm giving the term thumbnails (the cute nicname for the original quinq group) as I learned it oh so many years ago. Over the years the definition seems to have gone to the literal meaning of the name, any frog that can fit on your thumbnail... and since there is no real reference to access to double check the term meaning (PDF glossary or dictionary!) the incorrect meaning is passed on.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

What about _Colostheus_? Are they wholly considered "Rocket Frogs", or are they ever subclassified as darts?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

They are in the family _Dendrobatidae,_ which is generally called Poison Dart Frogs, so yes, they are considered PDFs, but hardly the most colorful members of the family. "Rocket Frogs" is basically the common name applied to the genus (" Blah Blah Rocket Frog"). I think a lot of people wouldn't call them PDFs just because they aren't bright colored like our ideal PDFs are.

If you think about it, the name PDF isn't applicable to almost all of the 200+ species in the family, only 3 are toxic enough to even be used for darts, yet the whole family got labled with it.


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Darks!de said:


> thumbnails are usually arboreal frogs


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks Kerokero, that was helpful!


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

This is a great site that breaks down animal classifications:

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Dendrobates_azureus.html

Here is an example of the information:
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Class: Amphibia
Order: Anura
Family: Dendrobatidae
Genus: Dendrobates
Species: Dendrobates azureus


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