# Unusual leaf litter



## Sea-Agg09

So the standard leaf litter options are generally live oak, magnolia, and sea-grape. I've seen loquat available, but I'm not sure what else you can use, just to add a touch of something different. I'm sure the number one thing to consider is if the leafs are toxic.

Down here in the south we have crotons growing all over the place. Codiaeum variegatum is the scientific name. The bright leaves would make a cool addition to the leaf litter. 

Thoughts and idea? What else are people using out there?


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## oddlot

I really like using willow oak (or at least that's what I think it's called)It's approx.3-4 '' long and narrow,like a weeping willow leaf.I love it and use it in all of my tanks.


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## fishman9809

I use the leaves that fall off of my "money tree" Pachira aquatica. It's a nice houseplant, it's semideciduous so you get a lot of leaves to use every year, but it breaks down fairly quick. The way it kind of skeletonizes is pretty cool and dry leaves have a nice, golden color.


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## Harpo

I have a narrow leafed tree similar to what Oddlot mentions. Around here the locals call it a Gumball Tree as it kicks put these green seed pods that are round and sticky. Not sure what the official name is on it, but the leaves work great. I would say venture out in the woods or a known non-spray area and experiment with what looks good. (Of course, its best to ID the species to be certain of toxicity)


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## Blue_Pumilio

Harpo said:


> I have a narrow leafed tree similar to what Oddlot mentions. Around here the locals call it a Gumball Tree as it kicks put these green seed pods that are round and sticky. Not sure what the official name is on it, but the leaves work great. I would say venture out in the woods or a known non-spray area and experiment with what looks good. (Of course, its best to ID the species to be certain of toxicity)


Edit....Sorry, thought it was a sweet gum....spoke too soon.


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## Sea-Agg09

oddlot said:


> I really like using willow oak (or at least that's what I think it's called)It's approx.3-4 '' long and narrow,like a weeping willow leaf.I love it and use it in all of my tanks.


Those look cool. I haven't seen any of those down here. They look ALOT like oleander leaves, and I would hate to get those mixed up. Oleanders are ridiculously toxic.


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## Harpo

Sea-Agg09 said:


> Those look cool. I haven't seen any of those down here. They look ALOT like oleander leaves, and I would hate to get those mixed up. Oleanders are ridiculously toxic.


It's funny you say that... I was going to type that in but I imagine a lot of people would not relate as the Oleander is generally a plant planted by residents -vs- being a naturalized specimen. Having both in my yard I can say that oleander will generally remain flat when dry. The gumball / sweet gum will eventually curl IME.


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## oddlot

I usually get mine from either Jeremy huff or Scott Menigoz.I use other leaves too,but these are by far my favorite.They don't last as long as Southern mag leaves(not much does)but they do last a pretty long time.


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## oddlot

Here's a pic of some of the leaves on a full size paper plate to give you an idea of the size and shape.The one in my hand is one of the larger ones.They are usually flat,but I boiled these for some spring cultures so they curled up a little.


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## epiphytes etc.

I regularly use guava. I've also experimented with some others, Ceiba, Brachychiton, madrone, various ficus, etc. Really the standards are the best. Oh, and palms. Of the species I've used, Brahea nitida lasted the longest and looked the best.

Also, don't use croton, it's toxic.


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## oddlot

Jason,when you say "experimented",you do mean in your tanks right?


Has anyone used any leaves from a fig tree,would it be toxic?I know when they are fresh and cut,they exude a milky liquid,but obviously I mean when they are completely dry.


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## markpulawski

I have been using Mango leaves for a while now, long and narrow but if I had them available I would always use northern Oak, they break down fairly quickly but for me have always been the best microfauna food.


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## fishfreak2009

oddlot said:


> Jason,when you say "experimented",you do mean in your tanks right?
> 
> 
> Has anyone used any leaves from a fig tree,would it be toxic?I know when they are fresh and cut,they exude a milky liquid,but obviously I mean when they are completely dry.


I use the dried out leaves my fig drops. Absolutely no problems.


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## epiphytes etc.

I wouldn't imagine dried fig leaves would be any different than others Ficus sp.


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## rigel10

What do you think about the leaves of eucalyptus (Eucalyptus regnans)?


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## oddlot

I'm not sure on this,but with the pungent smell or oils,I would think it would be an irritant at the very least (if not poisonous),but again I'm not sure on it.


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## SnorkelWasp

Wish I could use my rhodedendron leaves. They are the perfect size shape and color. But I am sure they have some wicked oils in them. Can't be good.


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## diggenem

Sea-Agg09 said:


> So the standard leaf litter options are generally live oak, magnolia, and sea-grape. I've seen loquat available, but I'm not sure what else you can use, just to add a touch of something different. I'm sure the number one thing to consider is if the leafs are toxic.
> 
> Down here in the south we have crotons growing all over the place. Codiaeum variegatum is the scientific name. The bright leaves would make a cool addition to the leaf litter.
> 
> Thoughts and idea? What else are people using out there?



Might want to check this out before using Croton Poisonous Plants: Codiaeum variegatum


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## oddlot

fishfreak2009 said:


> I use the dried out leaves my fig drops. Absolutely no problems.





epiphytes etc. said:


> I wouldn't imagine dried fig leaves would be any different than others Ficus sp.


Thanks guys,I figured they would be ok if they were good and dry.They will probably break down pretty quick,but the microfauna will probably love them.


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## hydrophyte

They lose their color pretty quick, but brightly-colored autumn leaves look nice in a viv.


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## dartboard

I am going to be doing a viv soon with birch bark trimmings instead of leaf litter. That way it will be a white floor with all of it. It will break down quicker than some leaves, but there is so much of it available that its not a big issue.


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## V.Gage

I have a never ending supply of magnolia as its all around my house, anyone needs any just let me know,I'll box it up and send you just pay for shipping


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## scoy

Has anyone used maple leaves in there vivs? I'm hopeing its safe because my woods are full of them.


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## oddlot

scoy said:


> Has anyone used maple leaves in there vivs? I'm hopeing its safe because my woods are full of them.


I believe some people do,but it does break down pretty quickly.It would probably be good for microfauna.


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## Spaff

scoy said:


> Has anyone used maple leaves in there vivs? I'm hopeing its safe because my woods are full of them.


Maple leaves are the preferred leaf for my springtail cultures. They break down quite quickly, but my bug populations explode with them. 

I've used torn up palmetto (Sabal minor) fronds in the past and really liked the look of it. It lasted quite a while too.


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## reptileguru2135

I was under the assumption that any leaf was okay? Is that a safe assumption or is there leaves that should be kept out of vivariums? (As long as its properly boiled)


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## Pubfiction

Its hard to tell most leaves are probably OK, but I wouldn't put black walnut in a vivarium.


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## oddlot

Boiling is more for killing most of the harmful bacteria,parasites, and pests that can be in/on the leaves.It won't kill everything either.


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## reptileguru2135

Why no black walnut? Sorry if a stupid question.


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## Pubfiction

They produce this stupid compound called jaglone and it kills plants. That could be really bad for hundreds of dollars worth of vivarium plants in this hobby. Now I cant say for sure how boiling and aging will affect the toxin but the leaves aren't good enough to risk it anyway. Some plants have no problem, others are very susceptible.


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## reptileguru2135

O deff good to know


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## stephen-mcginn

would leaves from a crate myrtle or a form of dogwood be safe? how do you tell if there toxic?


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## frogparty

crepe myrtle and dogwood are fine. 

I like copper beech as well, along with Madrone, and especially madrone bark


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## zedly

While i was building my first viv i had a few broms die on me. once they were past the point of no return i dismantled them leaf by leaf and tossed them into the viv to decay, and to help feed the micro-fauna that i was trying to establish. It really added some natural flavor to the viv and i feel like it helped me get one step closer to recreating a natural environment for my frogs. that being said, if you have some extra cash (yeah yeah, i know..) or your broms are producing pups and you have no room left in your viv just break a few broms down and toss them into your viv!


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## scoy

Whoa whoa you could get shot for suggesting something like that around here.


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## stephen-mcginn

scoy said:


> Whoa whoa you could get shot for suggesting something like that around here.


the only thing i could think of using is cheap crypanthus from home depot.....my 3 yr old crypanthus has the middle leaves rotting/fallen off and my isopod culture in there loves it..the plant is fine and its grown to 8 " long


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## SmackoftheGods

We have a big rhododendron tree in our yard.... I don't know anything about leaves, but these look a little like mag leaves.... Anyone know if these would work? Seems like they would take a long time to compost in-viv.


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## frogparty

they're safe. Been quite a bit of discussion about rhododendron on here, search it up!


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## scoy

I've used rhodo leaves in the past and everything was fine. But I stoped using them when I read on here that there toxic.


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## Arkaitz

Hi;
I currently I have oak leaves, for the microfauna is ideal, but not hard enough, in no time I run out of hiding places they can use dart frogs.
So I have thought of putting some sort in combination with oak does not spoil as fast.
I wanted saver that besides the tough leaves of Magnolia, would you recommend me.
A greeting.


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## scoy

I think your asking if you should layer oak and magnolia? If so yes. I use several layers of different types of leaves in all my vivs. Using a soft leave that breaks down quickly on the bottom and a hard slow decomposing leaf ontop for frogs to hide and microfauna to eat once there done with the bottom layers.


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## skanderson

ive used pomagranite leaves. they are a nice small size and my tree loses them all in the fall. also they are thick and dont break down to quickly.


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## Veneer

I like experimenting – and a useful precautionary rule, especially for invert cultures, is to avoid anything with prominent ethnobotanical use as an insecticide or parasiticide. 

I should have done my research beforehand but just tossed some impulse-bought dried soursop (_Annona muricata_) leaves instead of risking my isos because of how often those applications came up in these reviews: Coria-Téllez et al. 2016; Moghadamtousi et al. 2015.


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## harrisbt

Been experimenting a bit with beech, maple, and willow oak with isopods and temperate springs.... looking like maple and beech will be my base layer, with live oak, willow oak, and dwarf magnolia as my top layer. 

I find the addition of a softer leaf amidst the hard live oak and magnolia helps retain a bit more moisture in there when the leaves are freshly added. Helps coerce the bugs up from the deeper layers..


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## Ravage

My leaf of choice is Gambel oak. It is a shrub and common in southern Colorado. It is also called "scrub oak" by the layman. The leaves look just like the classic Live oak, but are 1.5" to 2.5". Miniature Oak, if you will- sized just right for a vivarium. 
I also happen to have a birds nest fern that I got after Christmas about four years ago. It was in the clearance section of the grocery store. it has done well. It is now over two feet in diameter and about the same in height. It is so nuts, that I occasionally trim back a frond or two just to make sure you can still walk around it. The fronds are extremely long lived in a vivarium once cut- by that I mean a year or so of green loveliness. They make a nice highlight and frogs seem to love sitting on them. This is not a real "leaf litter", but a nice accent.


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