# Mitch's 15g vivarium



## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello,

This is my first vivarium . I still consider myself pretty much a newbie so sorry if there are things I did wrong or if there are any mistakes I made  I'm trying to learn as much as I can before I take the plunge of getting the frogs themselves . 

This tank was previously a high tech planted fish tank which I became bored of and wanted to do something different. So why not Dart Frogs?

Here are some details about the tank:
*Size:*15 gallons - 24"x12"x12"
*Lighting:*Sunleves Pioneer II Jr. - 2x 24w T5 HO. Lights are on from 11am to 11pm. They get a little hot - tank temp. gets up to 82ºF. Definitely going to need to figure how to cool it down a little. Any suggestions?
*Background:*Typical Great Stuff/Silicone and Coco Fiber background with peat planters for the plants.
*Substrate:*Bottom layer is Hydroton with some fine mesh on top. Above this is ABG soil mix. On top of this there is a thin layer of coco fiber with a temperate springtail culture mixed in. Finally there is a layer of small Oak leaves to top everything off.
*Decor:*Small root shaped piece of Mopani wood, several "jungle pods", and one coco hut with petri dish under it.
*Plants:*Neoregelia Hot Pink, Button Fern, Wandering Jew Bolivian, Pilea 'Baby Tears', Christmas Moss (Similar to Java Moss)

Pictures! These are all from Day 1, just after set up.









Full Tank Shot









Neoregelia Hot Pink - the center piece, with Button Fern under slightly to the left.









Mopani Wood with Christmas Moss spread on it. I'm hoping it'll grow onto it and eventually spread.









Left side of Background with Pilea 'Baby Tears' to the left and Wandering Jew Bolivian to the right.









Right side of Background with Pilea 'Baby Tears' to the right and Wandering Jew Bolivian to the left.









Coco Hut also with Christmas Moss spread on top of it. Button Fern to the right.









Black Paint to cover up the Great Stuff on the left side of the tank. 









Another Mopani shot.

That's about all for now. I'm sure I'll have tons of questions along the way that you guys can help me with!  Feel free to make any suggestions or post any comments...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

For inhabitants I want to do azureus or tinctorius. I have read they are good beginner species. I would probably do a 1.1.0 or 2.1.0 ratio. I'm going to the NY Metro reptile show tomorrow and will definitely check stuff out. I'm not going to be purchasing the frogs until september though, I want the tank to mature first. Anyone have any suggestions for inhabitants? Are the one's chosen suitable?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

That looks really good! Can't wait to see it grown out. Good idea to go slowly on the frogs. You'll want to have ff and springtail cultures going first. But it sounds like you're on top of things. 

I'll defer on the choice of frogs, since I'm a noobie too, except to say that 15g might be small for azureus.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

You can't (and when I say can't I mean to strongly say _shouldn't_) keep a trio of tinctorius (azureus is a morph of tinctorius) in this size tank. A pair is pushing it, a trio... not a good idea.

It's starting to look good  Might want to think about looking for a few extra plants, though


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> You can't (and when I say can't I mean to strongly say _shouldn't_) keep a trio of tinctorius (azureus is a morph of tinctorius) in this size tank. A pair is pushing it, a trio... not a good idea.
> 
> It's starting to look good  Might want to think about looking for a few extra plants, though


Okay, thanks for the suggestion. Maybe some epiphytes on the sides of the brom could be nice, I'll have to see what plants are at the show tomorrow...


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## dablock (Aug 7, 2007)

Looks as if you have a good start. As far as the heat from the light, I'd look for a set of legs that'd raise the light above the tank by a few inches. Check to see if the manufacturer of the light has a set ready-made for your light. This will enable the heat to dissapate before it goes throught the glass. You might try auratus or leucs for that size tank and they're as easy to keep as tincs. As for the plants, it may look sparse now, but in 6 months you'll have a jungle. Once they set in some good roots, they really take off. Good luck with tank #1. There will be more.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

dablock said:


> Looks as if you have a good start. As far as the heat from the light, I'd look for a set of legs that'd raise the light above the tank by a few inches. Check to see if the manufacturer of the light has a set ready-made for your light. This will enable the heat to dissapate before it goes throught the glass. You might try auratus or leucs for that size tank and they're as easy to keep as tincs. As for the plants, it may look sparse now, but in 6 months you'll have a jungle. Once they set in some good roots, they really take off. Good luck with tank #1. There will be more.


Thanks for the suggestions! What ratio's could I do with Auratus or Leucs?


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Sunleaves doesn't make legs for their fixtures, they're meant to be suspended above with wires I guess. Looks like I'll have to do a DIY project for this one


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## dablock (Aug 7, 2007)

Mitch sorry to hear that they don't make legs for your light fixture. Hopefully a DIY project will work for you. As far as a mix for leucs or auratus, they are pretty social especially when young. When they're old enough for mating, the best bet is one male to one female or two males with one female. This will eliminate any chance of fighting. I do have two female leucs with one male, but I've been lucky so far as they don't fight. When you're buying froglets it's all up to chance and you make do with what you get. You also have to consider visibility when choosing leucs and auratus. Leucs tend to be bolder, but if you like auratus better they can be bold too depending on temperment. They have personalities just like people. Some are shy and some want the limelight


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

dablock said:


> Mitch sorry to hear that they don't make legs for your light fixture. Hopefully a DIY project will work for you. As far as a mix for leucs or auratus, they are pretty social especially when young. When they're old enough for mating, the best bet is one male to one female or two males with one female. This will eliminate any chance of fighting. I do have two female leucs with one male, but I've been lucky so far as they don't fight. When you're buying froglets it's all up to chance and you make do with what you get. You also have to consider visibility when choosing leucs and auratus. Leucs tend to be bolder, but if you like auratus better they can be bold too depending on temperment. They have personalities just like people. Some are shy and some want the limelight


I checked both of these guys out today at the show and I think I'm going to go with Auratus... they were only about $20 a piece from some vendors. Black Jungle had some nice one's too. As far as Leuc's - this tank is in my bedroom and I hear Leuc's can get noisy. I used to have a Red Eye Tree Frog in my room... non stop loud calling all night . I ended up moving it to a different room.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Good choice. Auratus are fun and beautiful frogs. I have a few of them. Some are shy and others are out, all over the place.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Is 82ºF going to be too hot for Auratus? When I elevate the light just a few inches the tank seems a lot more dimly light for some reason. What if I put a cover over the fixture like aquarium lights have?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I would say yes. They might be ok but there is no wiggle room if the tank is already that hot. The light is only important for the plants. A cover or reflector over the light is what a lot of people do.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Okay, thanks. I think I'm just going to raise it about an inch higher above the tank and put a cover on it too.


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## xsputnikx (May 11, 2010)

Hey... just a heads up.. last year I purchased a sunleaves 36'' t5 striplight for my tank and after bout a month it stopped working,.. so I bought another one bout 3 months later.. that one lasted bout 2 months and stopped working.. I talked with a guy about it at the reptile show I went to last week and before I even told him what happened to me with mine I said what do you think of these and his reply was amazing light while they work but are very unreliable, ballast blow a lot, and a lot of his customers had problems with them so he stopped selling them.. I hope this isn't the case for you but just thought I would give you a heads up


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## dablock (Aug 7, 2007)

Mitch, as Frogface said the lights are for the plants. In the rainforest, the frogs only receive much filtered light. I started out with an Exo-Terra 18X18X24 with 72 watts of compact fluoresent. This was too hot so I removed one of the bulbs and now the tank is fine with just 36 watts. My plants grow really well and everyone is happy. You may just want to remove one of your bulbs and not bother with raising the light at all. The only plant that really loves strong light is the bromiliad. They do fine in less light, but they're just not a colorful. I say "who cares" my frogs give the color in my vivarium


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

xsputnikx said:


> Hey... just a heads up.. last year I purchased a sunleaves 36'' t5 striplight for my tank and after bout a month it stopped working,.. so I bought another one bout 3 months later.. that one lasted bout 2 months and stopped working.. I talked with a guy about it at the reptile show I went to last week and before I even told him what happened to me with mine I said what do you think of these and his reply was amazing light while they work but are very unreliable, ballast blow a lot, and a lot of his customers had problems with them so he stopped selling them.. I hope this isn't the case for you but just thought I would give you a heads up


I never knew this, thanks for letting me know. I'm heading off to Belize, Costa Rica, and Panama (will be seeing tons of dart frogs, don't worry) tomorrow morning - well more like night... but anyways someone will be caring for the tank for me and if the light blows out I have an old exo light I can use temporarily.



dablock said:


> Mitch, as Frogface said the lights are for the plants. In the rainforest, the frogs only receive much filtered light. I started out with an Exo-Terra 18X18X24 with 72 watts of compact fluoresent. This was too hot so I removed one of the bulbs and now the tank is fine with just 36 watts. My plants grow really well and everyone is happy. You may just want to remove one of your bulbs and not bother with raising the light at all. The only plant that really loves strong light is the bromiliad. They do fine in less light, but they're just not a colorful. I say "who cares" my frogs give the color in my vivarium


It sounds like removing the front light is a good idea. One light is directly over the brom and the other one is just hovering over the leaf litter which doesn't really do much. Thanks for the suggestions!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Quick Update:

I removed one light (the one in front) and the tank has been much cooler, it now stays in the mid-high 70's. It seems a little dimmer now but looks more natural. I also moved the position of the right brom and it looks nicer now. 









Full Tank Shot









Broms


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm off to Central America! Next update will be in 4 weeks when I return.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Have a great time!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello everyone!
Central America was amazing and I returned home to find my viv in great shape too! Just a little too much water that I'll have to drain out but other than that everything is doing very well. I got a DSLR but I'm still figuring everything out with it. I'll be sure to post pics in a few days when I get a little better with it.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Looking forward to the pics.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Forgot to mention... I saw a ton of dart frogs, which were mainly Blue jeans and Strawberries in Costa Rica. Not many Auratus for some reason though. Also saw some awesome Tree Frogs and other wild life. Panama had some beautiful ones too. I didn't see a single frog in Belize, probably because I was Scuba diving the entire time . I couldn't get pictures of anything because I submerged my camera the second day of the trip , but I did get a use a friends camera to snap a few pictures which I'll try to post once I get in touch with him.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

*One Month Update*
The tank is doing awesome! The springtail population is crazy, there must be thousands of them in there. I'm sure most will be gone once I get the frogs though . I also drained the tank via syphon which worked very well... the water that came out smelled terrible! All of the plants have been growing steadily although the Bromeliad has lost a little color. I'm going to order a fruit fly culturing kit soon to get started before I get the frogs in early september. I'm still pretty set on Auratus at this point. Anyways, here are some pics from the new DSLR. I'm pretty bad with it but learning quickly . I resized them, hopefully they aren't too small.









Full Tank Shot









Springtails chillin in the "jacuzzi"









Moss growing on Coco hut, also with some roots that have grown on from the baby tears.









Another shot of the Coco Hut









Flame Moss









Baby Tears 









Mopani Wood









Moss Spores?









Button Fern


Thats about all for now, please feel free to post and questions or comments!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow that's growing in really nicely! I keep trying to do the moss thing but I keep killing it.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Would this be a good kit to get my cultures started? It even comes with the vitamins and other great stuff .


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

frogface said:


> Wow that's growing in really nicely! I keep trying to do the moss thing but I keep killing it.


It's almost impossible to kill Java or Christmas Moss, just toss some in there and watch it grow! I just trimmed about a gallon of Christmas Moss from one of my fish tanks... I have way too much of the stuff haha


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I'm getting a little better with the camera... these show what the lighting in the tank really looks like now that I'm figuring this thing out . I also figured out the resizing issue...Enjoy!









Springtails









Full Tank Shot









Ground Shot


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Now that I think about it I may want to try out Leuc's instead of Auratus. They seem to be much more bold and will do better in a group, although they do fetch a higher price tag which is a big downside for me...also with the calling I realized that unlike Tree Frogs, they're calling will be done during the day which I don't mind at all. Anyone got anything that will sway me to one side? I'm pretty torn between the two frogs still...

I purchased the deluxe Melo. culturing kit from Josh's frogs which is set to arrive upon my return from Greece. I'll be going for a little over a week and have no one to care for the viv. I was thinking about putting plastic wrap over the glass to keep in all of the moisture and shortening the photo period to avoid any heat related issues. Any other precautions I should take?


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## catman25 (Jul 17, 2007)

where in ny are you from ? y have you not considered azureus , i think they would love that set up ! looks great ,


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Mitch said:


> Now that I think about it I may want to try out Leuc's instead of Auratus. They seem to be much more bold and will do better in a group, although they do fetch a higher price tag which is a big downside for me...also with the calling I realized that unlike Tree Frogs, they're calling will be done during the day which I don't mind at all. Anyone got anything that will sway me to one side? I'm pretty torn between the two frogs still...


Are leucs really that much more for you? I'm having a hard time selling them at $30-35 each, and that really isn't that high. The leucs are definitely louder, but it's not an annoying call. Both would do well in groups, auratus may have some issues with female/female aggression and egg eating but this can happen with leucs, too. I don't know if I just got lucky, but not a single of my auratus have ever been shy. I have had CR, Panama green and black, green/bronze, and toboga island. They are all out and about. I always hear that "auratus are so shy, I never see them" so maybe I just got lucky but mine have always been bold. Both are great frogs, though!
Bryan


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Are leucs really that much more for you? I'm having a hard time selling them at $30-35 each, and that really isn't that high. The leucs are definitely louder, but it's not an annoying call. Both would do well in groups, auratus may have some issues with female/female aggression and egg eating but this can happen with leucs, too. I don't know if I just got lucky, but not a single of my auratus have ever been shy. I have had CR, Panama green and black, green/bronze, and toboga island. They are all out and about. I always hear that "auratus are so shy, I never see them" so maybe I just got lucky but mine have always been bold. Both are great frogs, though!
> Bryan


Ok, thanks for the info. When I go to the show I may just have to see if I can get a good deal on Leuc's and if I can't then I'd go with Auratus.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Sounds good, they are both really great. You won't be dissapointed with either! What show are you going to?
Bryan


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks! I'll be going to the NY Metro Reptile Expo.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Quick Update

I got back from vacation today to find my viv in not-the-best shape. A lot of moisture escaped and the plants didn't seem to fare well with this. The baby tears are almost fully yellow and drooping everywhere but I'm hoping everything will pull through now that I'm home for a while again.

On the bright side I'll be getting my first frogs three weeks from today, I can't wait! 

My Melo. culturing kit has arrived and I'll be making my first two cultures tomorrow using the two producing cultures already provided. Well see how this goes...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Finally got a picture of one of the Pumilio sp. 'blue jeans' from my trip to Costa Rica... The quality is terrible for some reason. Pretty cool though!


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## myersboy6 (Aug 23, 2010)

thats a really good set up! I just started a little 10gallon vert tank to do a test run on some clay that i bought.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Just picked up the frogs at the NY Metro Reptile Show! I got 3 leucs from Black Jungle - they're a great vendor. They are very bold and are already eating springs from the leaf litter. I also got some new plants and changed the viv up a little. I'm very happy with what I got. I'll pst pictures later today...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Pictures:









Sorry this one is sideways...









This one is a climber!









On top of the Coco Hut

That's all for now, each one has eaten fruit flies and springs and they are all very bold. I'm very happy with them .


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Once they have settled in a little I'll wipe the glass down and post some full tank shots.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Congratulations! They're beauties


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Once this guy saw the culture of fruit flies sitting outside of the tank he started attacking the glass, only to realize the only way to get them is to climb the glass and get out... Smart little guy


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Congrats, Mitch. The Leucs will grow fast on the melanogasters and will be able to take hydei in a couple of months. I recommend having some golden hydeis in culture if you don't already have them. They are intermediate in size and a very good food source for Leucs.

Good luck! Richard.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

E.T. Pose


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

After I planted my 20 Verts today with Ficus Pumila, I had several cuttings left over and decided to re-plant the viv. I pulled the Baby Tears and most of the Wandering Jew out and replaced them with some new soil and added the Ficus cuttings. The frogs got a little stressed during the switch so I don't want to piss them off more by shoving a camera in their tank... I'll see how they are doing tomorrow and will post updated pictures then.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Pictures:









I'm hoping the ficus will take over the background









Christmas Moss









Blurry shot of one of the Leucs, I took this one through the glass.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I like the re-decorating. Looks very well balanced.


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Great looking set up Mitch. I enjoyed reading your journal this morning. The shots with the dslr really look alot more natural!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

frogface said:


> I like the re-decorating. Looks very well balanced.


Thanks, but I'm not funny content with the look in my opinion. I may upgrade to a taller tank in the future, but I'll have to see if it grows in nice first. 



Nate Mcfin said:


> Great looking set up Mitch. I enjoyed reading your journal this morning. The shots with the dslr really look alot more natural!


Thanks, they definitely do!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Forgot to add, the tank has recently been getting a little too close to possibly dangerous temperatures so I raised the lighting up about 2 inches using film canisters. The temperature is more stable now. Also in the post above I meant to say fully, not funny.


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