# Who else is or have used tubs? (See these)



## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

Well I have much more more advanced plans for some frog tanks in the future, but I want to better define my methodology first. Furthermore, I have done lots of other herps and now would like to try darts. Before spending money on more and more advanced aesthetic setups, I want to prove my production efforts with some of the basic taxa.

I was curious on who has had what kind of experience using simple tubs, not just as grow-outs or temp holding, but maintaining and breeding. You can see my current setup below. I use the smaller tubs for grow-outs and putting size on future breeding specimens for for separating aggressive females and what not. Heat seems to be the largest downfall to these setups (and associated humidity if not carefully monitored), as my numerous compact fluorescents are not particularly helpful. I do plan on switching everything over to HO T5's in the near future. This should help a little. Right now, the tub temps hover around 78-80 F during the day (sometimes 81-82 on the hottest of days, rarely) and 74-76 F at night. I would be able to decrease temps in the room throughout spring and fall, as to induce breeding in the tincs.

On the lower level, are a larger size tub. That of which I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to breed at least some of the more prolific taxa (azureus, auratus, luecomelas, P. terribillis, various tincs). 










I have another two walls with various plant only tanks, more tubs, and mixed exo terras that are setup just for experimenting with different styles and plants.

Examples of how the smaller tubs are setup.

D. leucomelas









R. lamsai 'Orange'










Some current Exo designs. Not happy with them, but I am beginning to develop different styles and know-how of what and what does not work. I think my backgrounds are one of the biggest areas of improvement. Something cleaner and more facilitative for plant rooting (i.e. tree fern, pressed cork, eco-web). I have many other orchid only tanks, so I have plenty to work with there and enough experience to maintain many intermediate species. Better selection and use of foliage plants, vining and trailing plants, and know-how of moss growing are areas of needed improvement.

D. leucomelas grow-out tank - 18 cube Exo









Excessively tall P. terribillis pair tank - 18 x 24 Exo









D. azureus trio tank - 18 x 24 Exo









What is your input in regards to using tubs as aforementioned? And feel free to comment or criticize my tanks! Input is needed!

Species I am growing out now and plan to breed first. The lamasi are the only currently mature animals.

D. tinctorius
'standard cobalt'
'Patricia"
'azureus'
'Oyopock'
'Powder Blue'
'Saul Yellowback"
D. leucomelas
D. auratus
P. terribillis
R. lamasai 'Orange'

Thanks!


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

Sorry, for whatever reason, my photo rotations are not going through on photo bucket..


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

I've seen frogs breed in plastic tubs, and I know others have too, so I think you'll have success. How are you fruitfly-proofing the plastic tubs though?


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

For the most part, the seals on the tubs are good enough to keep most flies in. I don't mind a few wandering around, and banana caps in each cage help focus the uneaten flies in one place.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/83482-breeding-rubbermades.html


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## EntoCraig (May 17, 2011)

I use those for some of my smaller frogs, and loads of plants.


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/83482-breeding-rubbermades.html


I saw this thread a while back, but the body of the discussion seemed to stay on fly containment.

So, would one suggest ventilation as a necessity?

Would less regular misting by hand negatively affect breeding?

I don't see why appropriately sized tubs would not work for long term production. I just wanted to see if anyone is has used these for maintaining animals and breeding. 

Like I said, I think heat is my personal biggest downfall with this setup.

Thanks for the input


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

I personally don't see why frogs wouldn't be able to be maintained and even bred long term in such tubs.

As mentioned, not as aesthetically appealing as a nice viv for us but the frogs certainly won't complain. As long as their environmental needs are met, I don't see any problem.

I have some very well grown on Flavovittata and Imitators which have now started pairing off and showing breeding behaviour. In the coming weeks I am going to relocate them in pairs to some tub set ups in a bid to utilize the small amount of space I have and the equally small amount of money in the hobby funds jar! That and I have a move on the horizon, so the less tanks I have to set up the better!

I have grown these frogs in tubs for close to and over a year with no issue at all. I'd personally never scrimp on ventilation, and would at least add some strips/holes covered with mesh on the lower portion of the tub at one end and high up on the opposite side or lid. This way you will get a nice steady flow of air throughout the tub, just like the more commonly used vivs designs. (Euro, Exo and Zoo-med)

I will be interested to see how things progress for you.

Regards,
Richie


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

I've bred several species in similar set ups. Make sure they are fruit fly proof and watch out if you use larger plants that may grow to the top and push it up.

I usually ran an airline from an air pump into each one to provide some fresh air in there. I don't think thumbnails in them is a wise idea as far as possible escappes go. The galactonotus that I kept in them would perch on the inner lip and try to escape once I opened to feed/mist.


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## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

im also curious about this, as a father of three and a limited budget i see this as a great possibility and a way to get my family involved in the hobby. my kids go to a very small limited budget christian school and a see the value in the process of rearing frogs as a great life lessons and education into science and biology ect.

one question i would add to those above is do u build a false bottom or just layer in abg mix?

love to see some educated replies here

thanks


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Zach Valois said:


> I saw this thread a while back, but the body of the discussion seemed to stay on fly containment.
> 
> So, would one suggest ventilation as a necessity?
> 
> ...


I can't really comment on breeding, but a tub, tank, and vivarium are all basically the same in their functionality. The only differences really being aesthetic ones, and ease of access. Which, I assume the frogs are not very concerned about.

PS I tend to vent everything. Figuring a bit of air exchange can't hurt. Also, if you're having issues with heat, just approach it in the same way that you would a viv having similar issues (again, they're both just boxes).


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## Kalakole (Jun 30, 2011)

I dont do a false bottom on mine as it never gets to saturated but if you were doing it long term, i'd deffinately see the benefit in having a falsebottom or atleast a form of drainage layer.


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

Great input guys.

I will have to think about the best way to setup ventilation for these.

As for heat, not aware of much I can do other than pull the lighting back a bit, vent more, or add any type of fans. I do have an oscillating fan that moves air around this whole rack, it makes a huge difference. 

For someone that is interested in production (e.g. for school projects, personal goals, etc.), I think there would be decent potential with these. More so with the larger species, as mentioned above. Although I do have the thumbs in one of these tubs, they really seal up quite well and have never even questioned the escapability. I do have some of the tincs try to run up when I open, but no real issues. This is a pretty functional tub.

As far as drainage, I simply use hydroton. I like the look for these tubs, its rather airy as compared to the turface I use otherwise, and light weight. 

I will update in the future with my results. I plan to use my larger tub (24"x15"x12") to house and breed a host of Dendrobates species.


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> I can't really comment on breeding, but a tub, tank, and vivarium are all basically the same in their functionality. The only differences really being aesthetic ones, and ease of access. Which, I assume the frogs are not very concerned about.
> 
> PS I tend to vent everything. Figuring a bit of air exchange can't hurt. Also, if you're having issues with heat, just approach it in the same way that you would a viv having similar issues (again, they're both just boxes).


Exactly.

As far as heat, not a lot of options come to mind other than venting, fans, adjusting height and type of light, and room temp control.

What would be the optimal day and night temp range for breeding most basic Dendrobates?

I think I can keep the temps sufficient in the larger tubs to maintain breeding, although the gecko and chameleon cages on the other side of the room are not helping!


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## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

as far as venting goes it was suggested to me to drill holes into the lid and hot glue no see um mesh over the holes... just a thought


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

tnwalkers said:


> as far as venting goes it was suggested to me to drill holes into the lid and hot glue no see um mesh over the holes... just a thought


That is what I was thinking, although a small strip of ventilation strikes me as being more beneficial. Then again, at that point you would have enough ventilation to where you would be able to reap the benefits of a misting system, therein going against the entire concept of this type of setup.

On that note, small drilled or soldered holes seems to be the best route.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

Zach Valois said:


> Great input guys.
> 
> I will have to think about the best way to setup ventilation for these.
> 
> ...


why not switch out to t8s, or even 12s


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> why not switch out to t8s, or even 12s


I guess that is a totally legitimate idea huh? I have pressed hard towards HO T5's for their quality of light output in terms of plant growth (and used the 6500 k compacts here for that reason, and that I absolutely love the light output and color). But in such setups (keep in mind I am a plant nerd), plant growth only needs to benefit the frogs in functionality really. 

Hmm...

I have about 30 48" T8 fixtures from some old chameleon projects. Maybe I should bust those out...

God forbid I consider the simple route at times.. Lol


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