# Vivarium Size



## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

I'm looking to purchase my first vivarium and i'm torn between 18x18x24 and 24x18x18. If you had to choose which would you choose and why? I like the larger floor for the darts since they use the floor more often but I like the taller 18x18x24 for plants. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

For not much more money I can go with 36x18x24 and have the best of both worlds, is it worth it or is that too big for a first vivarium/darts?


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## GeneralRaam (Dec 21, 2020)

Hello there and welcome! I'd like to preface this by saying I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination nor fully qualified to give be-all-end-all advice but there are some solid rules of thumb I have absorbed from months of lurking and collecting information.

An 18 x 18 x 24 would be better suited for semi-arboreal dart frogs such as auratus as they prefer to be higher up in a viv, where primarily ground dwelling frogs such as tincs would prefer the 24 x 18 x 18. This being said, *dart frogs will use all vivarium space provided* to them (assuming they have proper access) and the general consensus is that bigger is always better. A larger viv simply allows for greater enrichment, especially when considering the size of their natural habitat in the wild.

With all things being equal, and remembering to provide all of the proper husbandry, in my opinion, the 36 x 18 x 24 would be the best choice out of the 3!

Best Regards,
Nate


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I love my 36x18x24" tanks far more than any of my 18x18x24" tanks. The extra floorspace is well used. 

That said, 18" tall isn't very tall. 

Which size is best will depend on what frogs you're thinking of.


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## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> I love my 36x18x24" tanks far more than any of my 18x18x24" tanks. The extra floorspace is well used.
> 
> That said, 18" tall isn't very tall.
> 
> Which size is best will depend on what frogs you're thinking of.


I'm looking at Dendrobates Auratus as I want 4 frogs and I've heard you should only keep Tincs in pairs. I'm really leaning more towards the 36x18x24 but was just worried about it being too large but it seems like it might be exactly what I'm looking for.


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## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

GeneralRaam said:


> Hello there and welcome! I'd like to preface this by saying I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination nor fully qualified to give be-all-end-all advice but there are some solid rules of thumb I have absorbed from months of lurking and collecting information.
> 
> An 18 x 18 x 24 would be better suited for semi-arboreal dart frogs such as auratus as they prefer to be higher up in a viv, where primarily ground dwelling frogs such as tincs would prefer the 24 x 18 x 18. This being said, *dart frogs will use all vivarium space provided* to them (assuming they have proper access) and the general consensus is that bigger is always better. A larger viv simply allows for greater enrichment, especially when considering the size of their natural habitat in the wild.
> 
> ...


Awesome, thank you, it's crazy how when I started researching about a month ago I thought I would be fine with a 18x18x18 and now i'm looking at a 36x18x24.


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## GeneralRaam (Dec 21, 2020)

Niv78 said:


> I'm looking at Dendrobates Auratus as I want 4 frogs and I've heard you should only keep Tincs in pairs. I'm really leaning more towards the 36x18x24 but was just worried about it being too large but it seems like it might be exactly what I'm looking for.


Your auratus will definitely appreciate the larger footprint! Since auratus can be a little shy, this additional space can actually encourage more bold behaviours.

To delve further into the Fishing Guy's response regarding 18" not being very tall. 18" of height, quickly becomes 12" once a false bottom, substrate, and leaf litter are added to the viv. With the 24" height footprint, you can essentially have 18" of workable vertical space which your auratus will make great use of. This extended height will allow you to plant larger plants directly into the background, and give your auratus even more options to explore!

Best Regards,
Nate


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Go as big as you can afford and have space for...for all Dart Frogs.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Niv78 said:


> Awesome, thank you, it's crazy how when I started researching about a month ago I thought I would be fine with a 18x18x18 and now i'm looking at a 36x18x24.


Many of us have gone through this, though it is the fortunate person who figures out the correct viv dimensions _before_ setting up, stocking, and ultimately replacing the smaller one.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Many of us have gone through this, though it is the fortunate person who figures out the correct viv dimensions _before_ setting up, stocking, and ultimately replacing the smaller one.


Guilty here


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

varanoid said:


> Guilty here


Yeah, I'm in the process of moving my thumbs into realistic-sized vivs. My frogs are happy I finally figured it out.


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## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

Well just want to say thanks to everyone. I went with the 36x18x24, will be here next Thursday! It's unbelievably hard to find terrariums at the moment, sold out everywhere.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Niv78 said:


> sold out everywhere.


Yes, supply chain issues. I haven't seen many locally for months.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Thats the golden size.


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## FangsAndGames (Sep 22, 2020)

While larger vivs can seem like it would be impossible to find your frogs, a larger viv would afford you a better experience of their natural behavior. Especially if it is planted because they would feel more secure and more likely to move around freely feeling secure and thus, bolder around you.


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## fade2black (Apr 12, 2015)

Good info here. 10 years ago a lot of people were setting up 16" cube tanks or 10 gallon vert aquariums. Things have come a long way since then. =)


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

For tiny frogs and growouts, yes the smaller vivs are still good. But for larger tincs, big auratus and all the big O - go bigger. The bigger tanks need to be 'fed more' as more flies will get lost in the size, That's about the only real consideration


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## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

Thanks for all the great info everyone. My tank, light and stand are all ordered, working on ordering my substrate and plants as it gets a little closer to when my tank arrives. I don't think I'm going to do a water feature for my first one but I would like to ask what is everyone's thoughts on background. Should I attempt a custom background with the foam on my first one or just get a premade one.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Niv78 said:


> Thanks for all the great info everyone. My tank, light and stand are all ordered, working on ordering my substrate and plants as it gets a little closer to when my tank arrives. I don't think I'm going to do a water feature for my first one but I would like to ask what is everyone's thoughts on background. Should I attempt a custom background with the foam on my first one or just get a premade one.


No water feature, great choice. 

I do cork bark mosaic backgrounds. They're not costly than a foam background but, in my opinion, look much nicer and hold up better long-term.


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## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> No water feature, great choice.
> 
> I do cork bark mosaic backgrounds. They're not costly than a foam background but, in my opinion, look much nicer and hold up better long-term.


Do you have any pictures of the cork bark mosaic backgrounds?


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

Exactly: no waterfeatures

I like to use full cork panels in my builds. They are very budget friendly, plants like em and your not messing around with foam or stuff like that..

Here is the link to a buildreport if it can be of any help to you :









70x50x65cm Vivarium Build.


Hello, I wanted to share the first vivarium I scaped in a rack system that contains 4x 70x50x65. I already finished and planted 2 out of the 4 tanks in total and have not yet started to work on the other 2. That is probably something I will start next year.. In this topic I wanted to focus on...




www.dendroboard.com





The import thing is to design your build for the frogs species you want to keep in there.


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## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

Tijl said:


> Exactly: no waterfeatures
> 
> I like to use full cork panels in my builds. They are very budget friendly, plants like em and your not messing around with foam or stuff like that..
> 
> ...


Thanks, those look great! Do you use silicon to keep the cork board up?


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

Niv78 said:


> Thanks, those look great! Do you use silicon to keep the cork board up?


Yep. You don't want annything to get behind the board.


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## Niv78 (Jan 10, 2021)

Tijl said:


> Yep. You don't want annything to get behind the board.


So it's just regular cork board like this?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Niv78 said:


> So it's just regular cork board like this?


No, not really. That item is made with glue to hold it together. The ones that @Tijl uses are pressed together and not glued.

Like theseDark Cork Wall and Ceiling Tile Squares | Jelinek Cork


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

Niv78 said:


> So it's just regular cork board like this?


Your question is already answered inon my topic.


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## Daniel559 (Sep 28, 2018)

Defiantly the 24x18x18 much more floor space for the frogs and scaping.


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