# STS in terribilis... even with adequate vitamin supplements?



## Schlepenslide (Feb 5, 2017)

Hey guys! I've done some reading for a few days, and I'm kinda stumped about this.


My three terribilis are pretty active in their tank (I've had them for about a year now), but one seems to be noticeably thinner than the others. 

At first I thought he might just be naturally slim (he's still eager to eat), but over the past month I noticed he frequently opens his mouth (sorta like he's trying to get something out of his mouth he doesn't like) and spits out his fruit flies. I read it might be STS, but... I dust every feeding (usually hydei, sometimes melanogaster) with Dendrocare, and my current batch is 3 months old and stored in a cool cupboard. 

He was tested for parasites when I got him, and was negative. The mourning gecko cleanup crew were cb and also negative (and also show no sign of vitamin deficiency, with straight tails and good calcium sacks).


Is there something else I'm missing? He's definitely getting vitamins (even if he spits them out, some has to come off). I've tried dusting lightly just in case he doesn't like the taste, but the same behavior continues. Should I try phoenix worms or FF larvae? Is there another illness that might resemble STS? 


Thanks for reading! He's still active (and his weight stable) so I don't think he's in pain/critical danger, but any advice so I can nip this in the bud is greatly appreciated.



_Tank parameters: 

18x24x24 (3 terribilis, 4 mourning geckos for eating ceiling fruit flies)
68-74 degrees (old house heating isn't stable but within good parameters)
60-100% humidity (depending misting schedule)
Feeding schedule: 3-4 times a week_


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

That doesn't sound like STS.... STS is typified by the inability to capture prey items because the mucous producing cells have changed and are no longer producing mucous due to vitamin A deficiency (a form of squamous metaplasia). In your case the frog is capturing prey items and then rejecting them, not the same thing so it doesn't resemble STS at all. 

The changes to the mucous cells also affect the rest of the digestive tract preventing the uptake of nutrients including the vitamin A needed to resolve the issue so you get slow wasting of the frog. They don't drop weight quickly due to STS. 

As for a single clean fecal, a clean fecal doesn't mean that they are free of parasites, it just means that none were detected at that time which is normal since only ill animals consistently shed parasites. The only fecal that actually tells you something is the one that is positive.... a negative fecal doesn't tell you anything really. This is why institutions tend to use three fecals over a period of time (generally 30 days) as the stress of quarantine and shipping generally gives a better chance to detect a problem in the second or third test when there is some immune depression due to stress. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Schlepenslide (Feb 5, 2017)

Well, at least it isn’t STS! 

Do you think it might be him just.... not liking the big hydei? For the first 6 months I fed him and the other two nothing but melanogaster with a few bean beetles, and I don’t believe I saw the same “spitting out” behavior.

I’m also unsure of what consitutes underweight vs. healthy vs. obese with terribilis, haha. I’m used to seeing really rotund frogs in photos, and I’m soley basing his health off the earlier tests (which you said don’t really amount to much), his appetite, and his activity levels.

Should I just keep an eye on him and not worry too much? I can also vary up his diet a bit and see if he prefers something a little different.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Those really round frogs are probably all morbidly obese... frogs store fat in abdominal pads and the roundness is caused by the fat pushing the organs and body shape out... 

Fast the frog for several days and then try feeding it the hydei again and see if that changes the behavior. 

some comments 

Ed


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## Schlepenslide (Feb 5, 2017)

Ed said:


> Those really round frogs are probably all morbidly obese... frogs store fat in abdominal pads and the roundness is caused by the fat pushing the organs and body shape out...
> 
> Fast the frog for several days and then try feeding it the hydei again and see if that changes the behavior.
> 
> ...



I gave it some time! Thanks for your advice. 

Fasted them, then varied up their diet a bit (I fed some very tiny dubias and waxworms in between fasting and hydei). They all seem to be of a similar roundness now — the formerly thin one seems to prefer the "easier" dish feeds.


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