# Male Leucomelas?



## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

Now that I have confirmed that one is a female, I started wondering about the other. I think that he\she is a male, but I wanted you guys to take a look.

(Also, is this guy a Guyana Banded or just standard? He looks different to me....)



























































































Thanks,

Will


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

That is one gorgeous frog.


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## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

jacobi said:


> That is one gorgeous frog.


It's weird, isn't it?!

He's way more yellow than my other leuc...

Amazing though!

Will


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

How in the world did you get such great pictures??


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

I don't know how he does it but I think it has something to do with a white floor, a good camera, and amazing photography skills.

Will, I think in order for you to actually get an answer to your questions, you need to purposely photograph bad pictures so people will concentrate more on the questions and not on how great your photography skills are and how beautiful the frog is.

btw, your photographing skills are amazing! A beautiful frog, that is, too!


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

That's an awesome looking leucomelas, I've never seen one with a pattern like that. It looks like it might be a banded... I don't see any spots, but what was it sold to you as? 
Compared to your confirmed female, how big is this one? I've noticed a pretty noticeable difference between the size and girth of mature male and female leucomelas. 
Bryan


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## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

Judy S said:


> How in the world did you get such great pictures??






frog dude said:


> I don't know how he does it but I think it has something to do with a white floor, a good camera, and amazing photography skills.
> 
> Will, I think in order for you to actually get an answer to your questions, you need to purposely photograph bad pictures so people will concentrate more on the questions and not on how great your photography skills are and how beautiful the frog is.
> 
> btw, your photographing skills are amazing! A beautiful frog, that is, too!


To answer both of your questions, I used a white foam board and a nikon D40 with one of the suckiest macro lens, although it still does the job  The lens is a Nikkor 40mm f2.8



Baltimore Bryan said:


> That's an awesome looking leucomelas, I've never seen one with a pattern like that. It looks like it might be a banded... I don't see any spots, but what was it sold to you as?
> Compared to your confirmed female, how big is this one? I've noticed a pretty noticeable difference between the size and girth of mature male and female leucomelas.
> Bryan


This is smaller than the female for sure, but the females is also just fatter... 

Here is a comparison, if you can even call it one...



















Thanks for the replies,

Will


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Wow, that is quite a difference in pattern! Are both of them from the same breeder, and if so, from the same parent pair? That is some major variability if so...
I can't really compare unless they are side by side in the same picture, but from your description, it sounds like a male. Have you tried any recorded callings of leucomelas? My males typically call back, start wrestling with each other, and/or start courting with the females whenever I play calls. See if you can get a reaction out of them that might confirm your guess.
Bryan


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## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Wow, that is quite a difference in pattern! Are both of them from the same breeder, and if so, from the same parent pair? That is some major variability if so...
> I can't really compare unless they are side by side in the same picture, but from your description, it sounds like a male. Have you tried any recorded callings of leucomelas? My males typically call back, start wrestling with each other, and/or start courting with the females whenever I play calls. See if you can get a reaction out of them that might confirm your guess.
> Bryan


I heard calling this morning!

SO happy finally 

The female is from Josh's, and the now confirmed male is from Mac's Poison, a frog seller out of Ohio or something like that, he was at a frog show nearby.

Thanks for all your help!

Will


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Good to hear you have a male! I would definitely clarify with the sellers what type each one is, because if the male is banded and the female is a standard, you don't want to cross breed them.
Good luck,
Bryan


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## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

Lets hope the male is a banded, because then you have an excuse to get a male standard and a female banded and have a pair of both standards and bandeds!!


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

That first leuc is just amazing!!


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## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Good to hear you have a male! I would definitely clarify with the sellers what type each one is, because if the male is banded and the female is a standard, you don't want to cross breed them.
> Good luck,
> Bryan


Correction to what I said earlier:

He was sold to me as a standard so that's what I am betting on for sure, his pattern just altered my opinion.

Thanks,

Will


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## holidayhanson (Apr 25, 2007)

Leucs develop more spots as they get older. This looks to be a younger frog that has not developed it's spots. Until the spots develop it may appear banded.


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## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

holidayhanson said:


> Leucs develop more spots as they get older. This looks to be a younger frog that has not developed it's spots. Until the spots develop it may appear banded.


He's 1 year and a half old already... If I'm not mistaken, this means he is an adult?

That's exactly what I thought when I first got him, then the patterns stayed the same for the most part. 

Thanks,

Will


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Yes they may morph out with little to no spots, but they fill in quickly. I've never had a standard leuc remain "spotless" for more than about a month ootw. Being over a year old, it's very surprising he hasn't developed a single spot. *Edit*- Will, when you bought this frog, were any of his sibling also spotless at the time?
Does the breeder have any banded leucs, or has he ever had any other offspring retain a similar pattern? I don't mean to question what the breeder told you, it's just interesting and I have never seen any leucs like this from normal parents. The odd thing to me is that he is not without black at all- like an amelanistic frog would be-it's only that he lacks black in the regions that typically contain spots. I'm not really sure if there is a gene that controls the expression of spots, if anything I figured it would be some combination of the parents' patterns, but not a single gene that can be "turned off"... but I really don't know much on dart frog genetics, so I'll hope someone else chimes in with their thoughts.
Bryan


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## brinkerh420 (Oct 2, 2011)

Baltimore Bryan said:


> Yes they may morph out with little to no spots, but they fill in quickly. I've never had a standard leuc remain "spotless" for more than about a month ootw. Being over a year old, it's very surprising he hasn't developed a single spot. *Edit*- Will, when you bought this frog, were any of his sibling also spotless at the time?
> Does the breeder have any banded leucs, or has he ever had any other offspring retain a similar pattern? I don't mean to question what the breeder told you, it's just interesting and I have never seen any leucs like this from normal parents. The odd thing to me is that he is not without black at all- like an amelanistic frog would be-it's only that he lacks black in the regions that typically contain spots. I'm not really sure if there is a gene that controls the expression of spots, if anything I figured it would be some combination of the parents' patterns, but not a single gene that can be "turned off"... but I really don't know much on dart frog genetics, so I'll hope someone else chimes in with their thoughts.
> Bryan


I bought him when he was only about 2 months OOTW, so all his siblings looked the same as him, I have no idea whether they ended up the same, or if he was unique. 

Mac's Poison: Dart Frogs, Tree Frogs, and Other Exotic Reptiles and Pets.

His website shows just D. Leucomelas, no bandeds, so I am guessing this is just a unique pattern, but just as you, I have no clue about Dart Frog Genetics or how this could occur.

My conclusion is that he is a standard, from the evidence given.

What do you guys think?

Will


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## Amagaeru (May 6, 2015)

Sorry for dredging such an old post up, but I'm very curious Will if you ever found out more information on your oddball leuc, and if he is still around enjoying life?


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