# 10g



## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hey everyone, right now i am in the middle of making a new 10 gallon tank for some frogs. I know all my frog tanks so far are 10 gallons but i cant find any cheep ones on craigslist. Well for my 10g i am making a background with a piece of driftwood built into the background kinda like the one i bought from Dave. I am also building a false bottom out of pvc piping and eggcrate. The thing is im not sure how much space will be left for some frogs. I really want 1 or 2 luecs from the next reptile show this month. Im not sure if there would be enough space for them though? Would it be enough space? Should i get a smaller type of frog, like vents or immitators? If so like what kind. Also i dont have any species with the smaller kind of frog so if they are hard to take care of than those frogs wouldnt work for me. I just wanted to ask on here and see what people think. When im done with my tank all post some pics and show all you guys and see wha you think.

Thanks for the help, 

Chris


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

yeah a 10 gal is going to be too small for 2 leucs. and also about the thumbs you listed, dont know much about thumbs but i believe they are more for the advanced people. try going around to some yard sales for tanks, you would be supprised what you can find.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh okay thanks a lot. So what should i do with the tank im building now? Since its too small for darts is there like anything else that is a really cool herp i could put in there? Also i would look at garage sales but i live in oklahoma and anything can happen here and belive it or not it is still cold here..so there arnt any garage sales going on right now  lol


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

dude, theres a bunch of tanks in the tulsa craigslist right now... lots of 55s some 30s a 29 and more


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

frogparty said:


> dude, theres a bunch of tanks in the tulsa craigslist right now... lots of 55s some 30s a 29 and more


Yeah i know, the thing is i dont have a lot of money right now so i was lookin for cheep ones but i couldnt find real chep ones


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Is that a little green box I see?

John


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

lol ya  im happy. Would tree frogs fit the 10g better than darts?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

what about a tarantula or a scorpion?
or a pac man frog?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I was actually thinking about a trachula a little bit. But would like 1 or 2 green tree frogs work in the 10g or no?


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## kamazza (Sep 2, 2008)

pacmans are really neat, also fairly easy from what i hear, just watch those teeth! i want one because of videos like this... YouTube - ONE PISSED OFF PACMAN!!!! ... too funny, although i guess this is kind of tormenting the poor thing...


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I was actually thinking about a trachula a little bit. But would like 1 or 2 green tree frogs work in the 10g or no?


I don't know much about tree frogs, but I think many of them are bigger than PDFs and would need a bigger tank.

Here's an idea: why don't you set up your 10G tank as a grow out tank for a froglet? I'm sure you could find a leuc froglet at a show in your area - or locate a breeder. That would give you some experience with smaller frogs and you could use the few months the froglet was growing up to save your money and build a bigger tank.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

afterdark said:


> I don't know much about tree frogs, but I think many of them are bigger than PDFs and would need a bigger tank.
> 
> Here's an idea: why don't you set up your 10G tank as a grow out tank for a froglet? I'm sure you could find a leuc froglet at a show in your area - or locate a breeder. That would give you some experience with smaller frogs and you could use the few months the froglet was growing up to save your money and build a bigger tank.


Oh neat, thats a really good idea . So i couldnt use the 10g for just 1 green tree frog? I think the green tree frogs look pretty neat, but if they needed a bigger cage i wouldnt make them stay in that small tank...


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

kamazza said:


> pacmans are really neat, also fairly easy from what i hear, just watch those teeth! i want one because of videos like this... YouTube - ONE PISSED OFF PACMAN!!!! ... too funny, although i guess this is kind of tormenting the poor thing...


aww poor thing, that gu is like tormenting it . But i do have to admit that is pretty funny lol


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

i am actually going to use the 10g as probably a grow out tank for a small green tee frog. Does anyone know if bromilads are good plants for them? I know dart frogs love them and i think they are pretty to. Also i saw on youtube to use a glass cover to keep the humidity high but i read on a care sheet to use a screen one for better ventilation, which do you guys think is better?


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

yeah that is true if you want to get some leucs you could get some leuc froglets to keep in the 10 gal, 2 would be fine in there for a little while but yea you would want to build them a bigger tank later.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Well im stuck now, ive always wanted at leaset 1 luec cuz they look so cool, but now im starting to get addicted to red eye tree frogs, they also look really cool. The oklahoma reptile show is coming up april 25-26 and i dont know what i should get. Should i get 1 or 2 luecs, or a green tree frog? I only have 1 tank that will be set up so i can only get 1 or the other...


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

that would be a decision that you will have to make, but if you do go with the leucs i would go ahead and get 2, darts seem to do fine alone but they also like to hang out with each other, or like the company or whatever, me myself i like more than just one single frog in a tank.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

ya me to, even though tree frogs are cool they stay tucked in a lot, so ill probably get the luecs


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/37692-one.html


heatfreak, wasn't that your thread up there? Same ordeal? If so, I all ready gave you my input on the 10 gallon vert therein.



Alex


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh yeah it was, sorry i diddnt mean to start another thread up about the same thing. I forgot i posted that other one lol, my bad.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

Hey when you check out craigslist be sure to check under several key words. Here are the few I use.

Aquarium
Aquariums
Fish Tank
Fish Tanks
Terrarium
Vivarium
Greenhouse


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh ok cool thanks, ill try those also


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I saw an ad and a guy was selling 2 tanks he said was probably around 30-40 gallons, he said he is selling both for 75 bucks, or just 1 for 45 bucks, is either of those a good deal?


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## Zeusie (Apr 4, 2009)

I have been doing a ton of research about dart frogs lately and I do recall seeing at a couple places that a good rule of thumb is about 5 gallons per frog, so that if you were to keep frogs in this tank they should most definitely be no more than 2 and preferably (or almost definitely) a sexed pair.

Quick link: look under housing. 

Josh's Frogs: Poison Dart Frog Caresheet

Another great source is www.poison-frogs.com, dart poison frogs, vivaria, plants, together with lots of pictures, films and more. Orchids, bromelia's, mosses, descriptions of dendrobates leucomelas, azureus, pumilio, tinctorius, auratus and how to breed frogs but also fruit

For example, a good thumbnail starter such as vents, can be kept in pairs in 10 gallon tanks, according to poison-frogs.nl : "D.ventrimaculatus has to be kept in groups or pairs in high vivaria. They like to climb through the plants, mainly bromeliads. A vivarium of 50 x 50 x 60 (l x d x h) is a good size for a group of 4-5 animals, but breeding couples have been seen in vivaria of 30 x 30 x 30 cm."


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## kamazza (Sep 2, 2008)

I think it is also good to keep in mind what amount of space in the tank is usable by the frogs. How thick the soil and drainage layer is, if there is a water feature, etc. If you get two leucs, I would get some branches and driftwood to create more climbing space, just dont get anything too bulky that will take up more space than it creates. I would avoid a water feature for sure though.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh okay thanks, yeah im not doing a water feature this time.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Are you setting these up as verticle tens or the normal orientation? 

Verticles are going to have less floor space for a larger frog. 

A couple of green treefrogs (Assuming we are talking about Hyla cinerea) are fine in a ten gallon tank as they don't tend to have the territorial issues seen in dendrobatids. 

A lot has to depend on how the tank is set up as this affects the space for the frogs. 

The old rule of thumb was 5 gallons/frog but if you use larger enclosures, then its possible to get more normal behaviors out of the frogs as they have more temperature/humidity variations in the enclosure. This has caused people to start looking into larger enclosures as there are potential benefits for the frogs and the larger enclosures allow for a better chance of getting a sustaining population of invertebrates. 

Some comments,

Ed


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh, the 10 this time is going to be a horizontal, i was thinkin either 1 or 2 luecs


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I had a question, that only bromliads i found at my local lowes was pretty cheep but they also were pretty big, would it be okay if i put in one that would probably be maybe half the size of the tank and maybe all the way to the top? It would give them good climbing and hiding space for them...also i would probably only put like maybe 1 more small plant in with it.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I had a question, that only bromliads i found at my local lowes was pretty cheep but they also were pretty big, would it be okay if i put in one that would probably be maybe half the size of the tank and maybe all the way to the top? It would give them good climbing and hiding space for them...also i would probably only put like maybe 1 more small plant in with it.



Most of the brom's I have found at lowes (or walmart) have "pups" coming out of them, which are small shoots of newer plants. These can be cut and used as opposed to the whole brom. Just a thought ...


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh well the one i found at lowes has a nice big red flower sticking out of the top, its kinda like one i found at the zoo a little while ago. But would a big one like that be okay in my tank? Or would that take up too much space?


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Oh well the one i found at lowes has a nice big red flower sticking out of the top, its kinda like one i found at the zoo a little while ago. But would a big one like that be okay in my tank? Or would that take up too much space?


Can you take some pictures? That would help answer your question. You don't want to pack too many plants into a 10G.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh, well i would take pics but right now i havnt gotton the plant yet. I guess if you could imagin its probably either the size of half the tank, maybe a ittle smaller, and the flower on the top of it probably reaches the top of the tank. Idk if that helps but untill i can get the plant thats all i can really do lol.


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

actually that thing that sticks out the middle of the broms like what your talking about isnt actually the flower, it looks like the flower but the flowers will bloom off the top of the thing sticking out of the brom. as long as the brom will fit inside the tank, you can put it in there, really you can create the viv how ever you want. me personally i wouldnt put a huge brom in a 10gal tank, it would make the tank look even smaller than it is. just make sure when you plant broms in your tank that they are in a place where the soil dosnt stay too damp this will rot out the plant. mounting them to the back wall is usually the best place to put broms i think.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh okay cool, thanks, i probably wont put that huge brom in, its just too big. I might put it in a beiiger tank or look for a smaller brom.


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## paulrust (Mar 15, 2009)

In my humble opinion the goal is to make your frogs happy and acive, not just to survive and be miserable. Tree frogs need lots of room to climb and swim, they love water to sit next to and sing, I have 12 in a 100g enclosure and it seems small at times. I give my darts even more room. Use the 10g for quarantine and get a 30-50g to start with and after a few months of keeping plants alive get a frog that you want and not one you settled for. You will be much happier as well.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

paulrust said:


> In my humble opinion the goal is to make your frogs happy and acive, not just to survive and be miserable. Tree frogs need lots of room to climb and swim, they love water to sit next to and sing, I have 12 in a 100g enclosure and it seems small at times. I give my darts even more room. Use the 10g for quarantine and get a 30-50g to start with and after a few months of keeping plants alive get a frog that you want and not one you settled for. You will be much happier as well.


Chris, this is really good advice from Paul. Do you have room in your house for a larger tank? If you keep your eye on craigslist, yardsales, freecycle, etc. you can find some bigger tanks for very little - some people will even give them away if you offer to clean/move them yourself. Once you have your tank, I would start to research what darts you're most interested in and try to build your tank to suit their specific needs. For example, leucs like to climb, so you might include some vines or lots of driftwood to create lots of 'levels' for them to explore. 

I think you've really come a long way from when you first started posting and the most useful piece of advice I can give it do a lot of reading and make sure you're ready for the darts you choose.

Good luck!


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

afterdark said:


> Chris, this is really good advice from Paul. Do you have room in your house for a larger tank? If you keep your eye on craigslist, yardsales, freecycle, etc. you can find some bigger tanks for very little - some people will even give them away if you offer to clean/move them yourself. Once you have your tank, I would start to research what darts you're most interested in and try to build your tank to suit their specific needs. For example, leucs like to climb, so you might include some vines or lots of driftwood to create lots of 'levels' for them to explore.
> 
> I think you've really come a long way from when you first started posting and the most useful piece of advice I can give it do a lot of reading and make sure you're ready for the darts you choose.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks. I have been doing research, and i also have gotton from petco, a large artifical vine that you can cut and silicone diferent places. I got the background and some dirt for substrate so far. Right now im trying to get the vines siliconed and staying on the tank. Than ill add some plants and moss. I still need to find a good light and everything also though. I think i do have room for a larger thank, im looking on craigslist and whem i e mail people instead of them either saying no or "how about something a little more" they just like get mad and would be like "id rather keep it!"


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I think i do have room for a larger thank, im looking on craigslist and whem i e mail people instead of them either saying no or "how about something a little more" they just like get mad and would be like "id rather keep it!"



Keep trying, eventually you will find one that is in your price range.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Alright thanks  so what prices should i offer for different tanks? Like how much should i offer for a 20g? A 30g? What about a 55g?


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

Sometimes it can be nerve-racking to make offers on items you see on craigslist or in the paper, but just keep in mind that most of the time (even though they sound firm on the listed price) they really would rather take a little less money than have that tank sitting in their house for another month. I wouldn't pay any more than $2 a gallon for a tank no matter how good the condition is (unless of course it comes with other goodies )... I've gotten many of mine for free at yard sales or from friends. There used to be a phenomenal fish store about a half hour from where I live that would throw in a free 10g on occasion when I bought a bunch of fish or another tank... He was always giving away free plexi and fish too which is probably why he went out of business . Anyway my point is that you should just keep an eye on the paper and craigslist, and always listen for word of someone who has reptiles or fish. If you hang out at your local pet store (especially locally owned ones that aren't part of a chain) your chances of making a friend who could have a spare tank for cheap are much greater. 
The last piece of advice I have for you is to look for free or cheap sheets of glass. It should be appropriately thick (1/8 to 1/4") with no cracks or big chips of course. If you manage to find some you can always silicone your own tank . And the coolest thing about that is the odd sizes of the custom tanks. Just keep in mind that you have to add in the cost of silicone and the wood or plastic that you'd use for trim. If you did go this route I would have to insist that you get help not only transporting the glass but also while building the tank. Searching the internet for "diy aquarium plans" will get you some information on construction.
Good luck finding a tank!


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks, ill try and look.


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

i once found a 20 gal at a yard sale had like 2 aquarium filters and the light hood for $10, ill tell you another way that got me about 5 tanks for free, if you have the time to do this, because it is very very time consuming. find out what day the garbage pick up is in the town you live, get out that morning and drive around and look at what people throw out to be picked up by the garbage truck. i use to work for the water dept. here where i live driving around reading water meters and i have come across, 55 gal, 29 gal, 12gal nano cube, a few 10gals, a 25 tall. you would be amazed what people throw away. another idea is to post a want add on craigs list, listing what you are looking for sometimes you might get a hit. as for the price of tanks on craigs list there are some people on there that will sell tanks for dirt cheap and some people on there think that they can sell thier tank for what they payed for it new. me myself for a used tank i wouldnt pay more than $10 for a 20gal, $20 for a 29gal, and i would pay more than $30 for a 55gal, but like i said thats just me, you might be alright looking for tanks used at about a $1 a gallon after about 20gals. also like said above ask around to people that you know, never know what they have sitting in there basement that they never use and might give you for free. i have gotten a few tanks for free from friends and people i work with.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Okay ill try. Ill try and post a want add on craigslist


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

scream-aim-fire said:


> i once found a 20 gal at a yard sale had like 2 aquarium filters and the light hood for $10, ill tell you another way that got me about 5 tanks for free, if you have the time to do this, because it is very very time consuming. find out what day the garbage pick up is in the town you live, get out that morning and drive around and look at what people throw out to be picked up by the garbage truck. i use to work for the water dept. here where i live driving around reading water meters and i have come across, 55 gal, 29 gal, 12gal nano cube, a few 10gals, a 25 tall. you would be amazed what people throw away. another idea is to post a want add on craigs list, listing what you are looking for sometimes you might get a hit. as for the price of tanks on craigs list there are some people on there that will sell tanks for dirt cheap and some people on there think that they can sell thier tank for what they payed for it new. me myself for a used tank i wouldnt pay more than $10 for a 20gal, $20 for a 29gal, and i would pay more than $30 for a 55gal, but like i said thats just me, you might be alright looking for tanks used at about a $1 a gallon after about 20gals. also like said above ask around to people that you know, never know what they have sitting in there basement that they never use and might give you for free. i have gotten a few tanks for free from friends and people i work with.


Your amazing! lol . I kept asking people if they woiuld sell their 55g for 30 bucks and everyone yelled no! Well i posted a want ad on craigslist saying ill take any cheap tank, and i just got an e mail from a lady that said she had a dirty 55g tank that she will sell to me for 30 bucks!


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Your amazing! lol . I kept asking people if they woiuld sell their 55g for 30 bucks and everyone yelled no! Well i posted a want ad on craigslist saying ill take any cheap tank, and i just got an e mail from a lady that said she had a dirty 55g tank that she will sell to me for 30 bucks!


Bam! You're in business Chris! That's a good deal - just make sure you check for leaks in at least the bottom part of the tank. It sure would suck to spend all kinds of time picking it up and cleaning it, only to find it doesn't hold water.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah tell me about it, i e mailed her back and asked if it holds water. I hope it does. Ill post some pics of my 10g im makin right now. You guys can tell me what i should put in it. Or what you guys would if you had this tank or something.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Sorry i cant post pics right now, for some reason either the camera or usb cord is not workin cuz i cant get em transfered, ill try later though.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Your amazing! lol . I kept asking people if they woiuld sell their 55g for 30 bucks and everyone yelled no! Well i posted a want ad on craigslist saying ill take any cheap tank, and i just got an e mail from a lady that said she had a dirty 55g tank that she will sell to me for 30 bucks!



Patience is a wonderful thing ! 

Congrats on your find !


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

lol thanks


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

haha good job chris, glad i could help you out with that. when you get the tank, if it leaks some you can find the leaky spot and re-silicone it back. just make sure that it dosnt have any crack that would be bad.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Okay thanks


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## frogo2 (Apr 8, 2009)

Along the same topic I have a 10gal that sits in a wood frame with about 8 gallons of viewable space and the back 2 gallons behind a acrylic wall for pumps and heaters etc.
I would like to make a nano viv with shallow bottom with some broms or something on the ground cork wall with some dripping water and maybe a tiny pool
I would like to keep a pair of imitators in there I use to have a pair before and they seemed pretty dang hardy to me and they were in a ten gallon
I will load some pics of the setup and my idea later


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## frogo2 (Apr 8, 2009)

yeah forget it that dang tank just doesn't fit anywhere in my apartment we shall see what happens to it could be nano reef but to much work or freshwater than I have to filter
Argh its is a pain in the but size
Here is a pic of it in its old life as a nano reef
Granted its only a 10gal


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Ok so i was going to put some luecs in that 10g horizontal i have been making but last night i got a big 55g tank, so when i make that and everything im going to put luecs in that. How much would be good in a 55? Also so since there is nothing in the 10g horizontal i was thinking maybe 1 green tree frog? Now i know vertical is better for tree frogs but would a horizontal work? I have siliconed a couple vines around the tank also so they sould go in the vines, ill probably put a big stick and a plant in there to for more climbing space, would 1 tree frog be ok in the 10g horizontal though?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hey everyone, this is my 10g so far, its been a while i know but i needed a little more bucks . I just got a couple plants planted and got a lid for it today. Tell me what you think. Sorry for the glare.


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## bruce (Feb 23, 2007)

There are exceptions to every rule and I must say I use 10 gallon tanks as the tank of choice for breeding of tincs/grow up/out tanks and isolation tanks.
Some specifics:
2/3 of the tanks (back half) are heavily planted in all tanks to allow alot of room for frogs to get away if needed.
I feed very heavily allowing for up to five adult frogs (when grown together) to be placed in these tanks.
Growing up together, I have found less aggression between the sexes and easier to monitor differences between the frogs.
Multiple rows of tens allow for space conservation and ease of maitenance.
I can place the tens in racks that hold ten across with three shelfs of ten that allows uniformity (Home Depot)
The tanks are flushed with well water (there are drainage holes) about once a month which with the heavily planted tanks keeps the tanks "sweet" and refreshed.

Hope it helps


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

You keep 5 Adult Tincs in a 10 gallon?


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## ESweet (Apr 13, 2009)

Philsuma said:


> You keep 5 Adult Tincs in a 10 gallon?


Seriously... 5 leucs to a 10 gallon?!?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

5 adult tincs seem a little much..idk though im no expert. But what do you guys think of the tank? Do you like it so far?


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## hylahill (Jan 29, 2008)

Personally, I never have more than two frogs in a ten gal tank. However, having said that, I have seen several setups with four or five(or more!) frogs per. The owners say that aggression is kept to a minimum as no frog has the ability to set up his/her own turf and that it does help to use a group that has been raised together.

Some of these setups produce alot of offspring. Alot has to do with how it is planted, feeding, and species of frogs. I think Pat Nabors addresses this issue in some of his caresheets. He also has good info on how many frogs he recco's per individual species.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Im not puttin any more than 2 frogs in my 10g. But does the 10g look good?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Aggression not withstanding....

How about "runting the frogs" ?


Oh....the tank looks good Heatfreak.......is the water in the false bottom though?....it does look kinda dry...


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

There is a little water in the false bottom. Were you saying the false bottom looks dry or the whole tank?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Chris,

I dunno....the soil substrate just kinda looked dry....


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh, well it might look dry because i just put the plants and soil substrate in today.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Looks good but those plants in there are going to out grow it very fast probably.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh they are? How can you tell?


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## Marinarawr (Jan 14, 2009)

I think Dave means that the plants you chose grow taller than your tank will allow. It looks good though . The philodendron should be fine if you cut it back once in a while. Do you have lighting or a top for the tank? If not I recommend getting a glass top and an aquarium hood or even just a reflector/shop light. That will keep your soil moist and make your plants happy. Good luck!


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Oh cool, thanks. What plant is the philodendron though? lol i dont know much about plants, i just got them at petco ha . Also What kind of light do i need? I do had a glass lid for it to keep the soil moist but idk about the light...


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

the philodendron is the vine like plant with the spade shaped leaves.

you have plenty of options on lighting. if you have a place overhead to hang a shop light i recommend that first due to their cheap cost, but if not then a aquarium light hood is also a nice option, and you can chose weather you want a 12" tube or CFLs. 6700K is your normal white color but you can chose whatever you want, its mostly an aesthetic thing


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Vine type plant? The one in the back left?


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

2nd from the left as viewed.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

So the one on the left in the back? Or close to the front?


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Chris - your philodedron is the plant close to the ground that is second from the left. So, start at the left of your tank. Two plants in - that is the philo.


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## basshummper (Jan 13, 2008)

just google it!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

.......lol


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Haha ok, its just hard finding out, i think i know what your talking about though


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