# Hatching problems / 5 legged froglet



## AlexF (Sep 26, 2007)

It's been a long time since I've posted here, but have been having some problems with my azureus pair.

They have been laying fertile eggs for over a year, probabably close to two years. The tadpoles develop very well until they are about to come out but then they all die. It seems the belly becomes roundish and then it becomes white. I also have a high percentage of early egg failure from this pair.

I have been breeding cobalts, patricias and terribilis very successfully and treat the frogs and eggs the same way, so I'm guessing its something to do with this pair.

Funny thing, I just raised a 5 legged Cobalt froglet. All siblings came out normal, but this one has an extra limb. First I thought it was an extra arm but yesterday I saw it and I'm not sure any longer. I will try to get pictures of both the failing eggs and the mutant froglet.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

What supplements do you use?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Highly "chemicalized" city water ?


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## AlexF (Sep 26, 2007)

I'm using 3 suplements:

Rep-Cal
Calcium phosphorus free superfine powder
Herptivite multivitamine

Another multi-mineral suplement that I will have to look for the name as I don't remember it now.

I use RO water, so I doubt the problem would be there. 

The 5 legged frog has been the only one in a whole bunch of frogs that has come out this way. 

All the other eggs do really well, I haven't done the statistics but I believe the hatch rate is above 80%.

The diet consist of fruit flies with tropical termites every now and then.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Can you get or order online Repashy Calcium plus ICB down there? A better vit A supplement like that might help - try feeding more stuff like springtails/isopods also


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## AlexF (Sep 26, 2007)

The third suplement is from Stickie tongue farms and is called Miner-all

Here are a couple of photos of the 5 legged frog. This frog seemed to have a bubble in it's side since it was a tadpole, I didn't know if I was supposed to pinch it so I just left it to see what happened and a fifth leg was the result.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Does that leg work?


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Wow! I am wondering if RO water is the best water to use for tads? It basically pure water so I wonder if that might be part of the problem I use RO to mist my tanks but not for tads. I'd like to hear what others think?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

nburns said:


> Wow! I am wondering if RO water is the best water to use for tads? It basically pure water so I wonder if that might be part of the problem I use RO to mist my tanks but not for tads. I'd like to hear what others think?


As long as you are going to use "R.O right" or some other substance to add stuff back to the water - otherwise it is too pure and will seek to leach minerals out of the tadpole inorder to rebalance itself.

If I lived in a suspected "bad water" urban area....I'd just make sure to use good quality shipped spring water from the grocery store.


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## ESweet (Apr 13, 2009)

I very highly doubt this is a supplementation issue. It could be the result of some sort of pesticide, parasite [most likely] or ultra-violet induced genetic modification. However, I'd generally expect you would see more than a single frog with a single defect. Keep your eyes peeled though. Theoretically, I think it could be a case where there were initially two frogs developing together [like conjoined twins], where one died early on and only a limb remains. Sounds like I'm joking, but I'm serious. You should go get an X-ray taken, for the science's sake. 

I think RO water is just fine as long as you are adding food to it. Frogs live in very very dilute aqueous environment with little access to ions. As such they can maintain their essential ions, despite such electrochemical gradients.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

ESweet said:


> I very highly doubt this is a supplementation issue.


 I was thinking more about the egg issue being supplement related


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## ESweet (Apr 13, 2009)

ChrisK said:


> I was thinking more about the egg issue being supplement related


Sorry Chris, I misunderstood your direction with that =D I should have known better. Still, doubtfully a supplement issue, but it looks like that supplementing schedule could use some improvements as you noted.


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## AlexF (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks for the responses. 

Even though I will try this new suplement to try and get this azureus pair to produce good eggs, I doubt the problem is in the food or suplements as I would be having problems with the other eggs / pairs and this problem is isolated to a single pair.

I'm also looking for another adult azureus to exchange and find out if it's a compatibility problem.

On the 5 legged frog it can move the leg, but the one in front doesn't seem to be very usefull. Other than the weird appearance, it's doing very well.


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## Marc (Feb 3, 2008)

AlexF said:


> The third suplement is from Stickie tongue farms and is called Miner-all
> 
> Here are a couple of photos of the 5 legged frog. This frog seemed to have a bubble in it's side since it was a tadpole, I didn't know if I was supposed to pinch it so I just left it to see what happened and a fifth leg was the result.


I think if you pinched the bubble on his side you would of killed him. Looks like the little guy has good use of his extra limb. I think he is kinda cute.

I have a pair of Patrica's that are having a similar issue. Eggs were good last year and now this year, the eggs turn to mush. I figure I will separate them out if this continues. I have too many other pair with eggs and tadpoles that are doing well right now, so have not given much thought to this issue, from this single pair of mine.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow, that's freaky! My Zaparo frogs used to throw a two headed tadpole every once in a great while but they never survived longer than a week. I think you need to start a breeding program around that little guy. Try to eventually develop a 12 legged frog! Just kidding people. Seriously though, get some of the Repashy Vitamins. Much better product may help with your egg development.


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## AlexF (Sep 26, 2007)

As magic, the azureus egg clutch laid days before I posted has produced 3 healthy tadpoles. I haven't changed a thing and for the first time in probably two years I have blue (eventually) tads.

The 5 legged frog is still doing very well.

I have purchased the new suplement and should receive it by in two weeks.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The egg development problem matches that reported for insufficient vitamin A (as retinly palmitate or retinoic acid) as the insufficiency prevents normal development of the kidney system in the tadpoles. 

You may have a better success with the eggs if you use a supplement that contains preformed vitamin A as well as a better variety of carotenoids as well as once to twice a month adding a human grade dry vitamin A supplement to your regimen. The dry vitamin A will have to be ground to get it to stick well to the insects. 

With respect to the abnormal limb development, there are many different causes ranging from random improper development of the bud, to damage to the bud causing the abnormal devlopment to other causes ranging from parasites (some flukes for example) to disruption via chemicals. As this is a single incidient you will probably never be able to figure out what is causing the developmental disruption (unless you did something directly traceable like adding wild caught Planorbis snails to your tadpole tank). 

Some comments,

Ed


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## AlexF (Sep 26, 2007)

Amazing as it might seem I now have a 3 legged frog. I'm still not sure if it's another cobalt or if it's a Patricia. This froglet still has a tail so I'm hoping the leg will come out latter but I don't see it under the skin.

The 5 legged frog is doing very well, so now I need to do a leg transplant!!!!

I have started with the new supplement and have been feeding it for almost a month.


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## Marc (Feb 3, 2008)

How is the 5 legged frog doing? Any new pictures?


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## Woodsman (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Alex,

You don't happen to live near a nuclear waste site, do you? (!)

Richard.



AlexF said:


> Amazing as it might seem I now have a 3 legged frog. I'm still not sure if it's another cobalt or if it's a Patricia. This froglet still has a tail so I'm hoping the leg will come out latter but I don't see it under the skin.
> 
> The 5 legged frog is doing very well, so now I need to do a leg transplant!!!!
> 
> I have started with the new supplement and have been feeding it for almost a month.


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## Herper (Apr 26, 2011)

The fifth leg is well developed 

Ive had a few mutants from albino descendants...


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You should seriously not drink the water.


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