# The stump



## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I've had a open tank with a swamp biotope for a while (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74349) and I felt that I wanted to do something with a bit more land area to play around with.








Then I found this funny looking stump and I though I could build something around that.








I've always liked builds that look like a real square meter of nature, rather than the "landscape" look where a piece of redwood represents a tree or a rock represents a cliff formation. I realize that it might look too large and cumbersome in a rather small tank, but I'll give it a try. So I tore everything down,








led the water outlet to run underground instead of across the land area,








foamed it into place and adjusted the water level,








and did the plumbing for a moss wall.









It's not easy to see, but there are a lot of cool structures on the stump with which to play with.









Next I'll cover with grout, silicon, and moss and install Epiweb panels on the back and left sides. Any suggestions on what to keep in a tank with no lid like this?


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

loved the planted tank that this is replacing. i hope you keep us updated with this build. since you are going open and uncovered you cant keep most amphibs in there. maybe a small turtle species?


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## cschub13 (Apr 27, 2011)

Wow this looks like it's going to be a very cool build, consider me subscribed.


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## spyder 1.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

You know what, I think that's pretty cool!


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Great looking stump.... Can't wait to see where you take this tank...


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks, and I'll try to update as much as I can. Today I've applied the grout.









I'm worried about water being drawn up into the substrate since there is only about 2 cm between the ground level and water surface. I'm also worried about the moss wall soaking the substrate, but I hope to deal with that by adjusting the flow. Do you think these issues will cause me problems? I have never done anything similar before and don't know what to expect.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

So, now I've installed the Epiweb panels. 









For those of you who don't know, Epiweb is a type of substrate originally developed for growing orchids. The purpose is to supply a moist but at the same time very aerated environment. I've seen some impressive moss walls with it so I'm really excited.


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## TorreSnorre (Aug 14, 2012)

Schysst!!!!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Tack tack


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## spyder 1.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Could you buy some epiweb for me and ship it to Guelph, Ontario , Canada?

Was it easily attainable?

Loooks really good so far, I am excited!


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## SLiK JiM (Oct 10, 2011)

spyder 1.0 said:


> Could you buy some epiweb for me and ship it to Guelph, Ontario , Canada?
> 
> Was it easily attainable?
> 
> Loooks really good so far, I am excited!


I think this must be the only time there is something available in the UK that isn't available in the states/canada!

Dartfrog - Everything for the Amphibian Keeper are the UK seller of epiweb and hygrolon if that is of any use...???


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I'd also buy from dartfrog.co.uk. I think their shipping would be less than if I first bought it in Sweden (from dusk.se) and then sent it.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I've only used the laquer + silicon & peat method before, but now I thought I'd try Drylok. Can I add the peat directly to the Drylok? Will Drylok adhere at least decently to glass? I'd like to paint the bottom of the tank as well. Thanks!


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## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

spyder 1.0 said:


> Could you buy some epiweb for me and ship it to Guelph, Ontario , Canada?
> 
> Was it easily attainable?
> 
> Loooks really good so far, I am excited!



Shipping from Sweden is a LOT!

Look into ecoweb...i think the company is First Rays Orchids? They are based in the US, and sell the exact same stuff, except cheaper and under a different name.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Hmm, this was no success. I've only used epoxy laquer colored black with activated carbon before. That is initially gray but turns black as it dries. The Drylok seems to stay light gray though.









Any tips on what to do now? Can I color the Drylok in some other way? Do you think black silicon will cover it if I mix it with toluene first?


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

When I use drylok I just add acrylic paint to it to get the color I want and it has worked great!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Ok, that sounds good. Is acrylic paint safe for the animals? Did you also use the white Drylok?


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## spyder 1.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm going with First Rays Ecoweb. I hear its black but I can deal with that for the price!

I'm craving for an update. For some reason I have really high expectations for this tank to look natural unlike the vast majority of tanks I see on here (no offense anyone, I know its hard to replicate nature)

Update Update!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks for the confidence vote  A more natural look is what I'm aiming for at least, then we'll see if I can pull it off.
Nothing has happened so far. The Drylok took forever to dry and cracks have formed in it. It didn't behave at all like I anticipated. Maybe it was the activated carbon that interfered somehow? I'll try to find some acrylic paint tomorrow and add another, hopefully black, layer.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Gah, it's impossible to dye the paint. I tried with acrylic paint but it didn't help. Ok, so what would be the cheapest and easiest way to cover the Drylok? Can I use pure acrylic paint? Even for the underwater section?


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## Nath514 (Jul 8, 2012)

Rasmus said:


> Gah, it's impossible to dye the paint. I tried with acrylic paint but it didn't help. Ok, so what would be the cheapest and easiest way to cover the Drylok? Can I use pure acrylic paint? Even for the underwater section?


I am not sure why you were unable to color the drylok. I started with gray drylok. I would pour a cupful into another container and mix it with a few squirts of acrylic paint int the colors I wanted. The drylok easily was colored and several coats and some detail work later my rocks looked pretty good. Not sure why yours won't color.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

So, after some smaller issues I have finally done the silicone peat thing. It's very tricky to photograph the tank since there is no lighting yet and since it's right in front of a window (and since I'm using a crappy cell phone camera). Anyways, at least it feels like I'm back on track again  Just waiting for it to dry and then I'll add the water and fix the Epiweb panels.


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

It looks badass. Nice job.


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## spawn (Jan 2, 2007)

Great thread and thank you for sharing. This is EXACTLY what I was trying to do here: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/89068-mossy-frog-build.html
Now if only I could find a tree stump like that.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks both of you! I've discovered the secret to taking at least decent photos; clean the windows 









I've started the water system and I'm really happy to see that the level stays pretty much right where I wanted it.









I'm thinking of whether it would be a good idea to redirect some of the water from the moss wall through a drilled hole in the stump in order to keep the top of it wetter. What do you think? Water has a tendency to go where it wants, so maybe it's asking for trouble?


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## spawn (Jan 2, 2007)

Unless you create a slant, or contour for the water to follow, then yes, you're asking for trouble. You need to either reshape the stump, or add some foam and create a barrier for the water to travel on (like a water slide) so it comes back into the pond.

But again, I DO think you should decide on an animal before proceeding to make sure it fits the animals' needs. Given you have no top or cover, I can't think of any amphibs. I WAS going to recommend pygmy chams since I have mine in a 10 gal with no cover, but that stump really eats up the great climbing real estate you'd have. And it's too damp for them. They like a damp forest floor, but not running water. Unless you want to grow a vine or pothos out of the center of the stump (defeats the purpose of it in my opinion), I can't think of anything.

*Edit: if you wanted to go the mangrove path, you could add a little salt and do those guys. By FAR the most entertaining critter I ever kept. They're fish that can JUMP and CLIMB. Unbelievable. But again, you'd need a TOP lol. Mudskippers can arguably climb glass better than tree frogs. They're faster, and more agile too. I'm actually kinda' pissed I invested in so many chameleons when I shoulda' been spending my time setting up a nice mudskipper mangrove swamp. They're the perfect display animal and full of personality. I CANNOT overstate how awesome they were to keep. They weren't lifeless sacks of crap like tree frogs are, and they swim like beautiful fish - the best of both worlds. You could stick a couple in there. Mine I had a few years ago used the land 60%, and the water 40%.


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## spyder 1.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

I'd ditch the epiweb and go with hygrolon then just wick the water to the walls. Drilling holes would be bad news I think!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I'd love have mudskippers at one point. They look like a lot of fun. That was actually the other option for this tank, to make it into a mud flat biotope. But I'm saving that for another tank. This should have the feel of a flooded temperate forest. If i cannot have any amphibians because of the open top then it will have to stay a vivarium with fish and plants only. I could also make adjustments such as adding a glass border if that helps.

I agree on that it's probably a bad idea to drill the stump for watering. It wicks water rather high anyways and I can spray the top manually. I thought long and hard on Epiweb or Hygrolon and went with Epiweb because it gives me larger control over the moistness level and I have a feeling that it's better suited for planting ferns and stuff in.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

So, I've made a substrate from peat, sphagnum, coco coir and bark. I have no idea if it will work, but it's not a very deep layer, so it would be easy to change. I plan on using the same substrate in the water section. Now I'm just waiting for it to sink.









I've installed a second pump for the moss wall instead of running it on the main pump. I think it will be easier to control it by running at full speed a number of times a day, rather than trying to adjust the flow precisely and run it continuously. When I'm sure that it works well I'll finalize the attachment of the epiweb panels and clean up the look of them a little.


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

Really like that piece of wood and how you used it. How did you end up covering up the drylok? Just smeared a tube of silicone all over it and applied your peat? 

I see a few problems with using the same substrate on the water section.
1. I don't think the majority of that will sink.

2. I don't think that substrate would help much grow properly in it and while it might seem good for awhile it may start to rot rather quickly, I spent alot of money on trying to cheap out on my water substrate and I do not regret spending $25 on a good dark aquarium substrate (Ecocomplete).

3. It will likely clog the waterway leading to your main filter. Again I have this happen to me all the time and I have to regularly remove substrate that has fallen in and blocked up the entrance area to my pump from the main pool.

This is just my personal experience doing something similar but if you think you can justify doing it for the long term go for it, looking forward to the update.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks! Yeah, I just smeared a whole lot of silicon and peat on it. 

Regarding the water section I think it matters that I use surface drain to a sump where any debris is collected. It's not clear in this thread, but I talk about it in the swamp thread. This solves the problem of stuff not sinking, as it is carried away in that case. This is how it look now for example.









This also keeps the substrate very still since the drain is far from the bottom. There is of course a possibility that something clogs the drain, but I think the biggest danger there are leafs. I also measure the water level and turn the pumps off if it looks weird.

However, I agree that the lack of a good substrate would be bad for the plants. I haven't figured out how to deal with that yet, but I'll wait and see until everything else is done. I would rather do some solution with hidden pots since the water section is already so shallow.


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## JoshsDragonz (Jun 30, 2012)

Have you checked into ADA Aquasoil? 

-Josh


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, I've used it before. Good but expensive. But I still think I'll skip a normal substrate if I can. I really like how peat looks under water and I don't want to lose more depth than necessary. I was thinking if I could somehow make some very shallow pots and do the silicon/peat thing on them. That way they should disappear among the peat substrate. Then I could plant in them and also move them around if needed.


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

Ill have to hunt down that swamp thread. Looks natural, in fact I bet it would look pretty good with just smeared peat on the bottom and you wouldnt have a problem with stuff floating around and into the filter. Ill probably try that in a future tank, I agree that taking away from the swimming depth when its already limited is quite the trade off im sure some plant will go against the odds and somehow manage to root in the silicone peat.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

After a week or two of drip wall problems I'm finally done with the building phase! The issue was that the pressure to the drop wall was very low, which made most common solutions infeasible (discussed in http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89315). I finally settled for the simple solution with an open tube with holes. 









This requires no pressure so the holes furthest away will also receive flow. I don't think the flow across the wall will be very even, but hopefully it will be ok. If not I'll have to water by hand. I found epiweb to be a rather tricky material to keep moist, as it has absolutely no wicking ability.

I've just started the planting phase. My plan is to only use mosses and ferns (including for example liverworts and horsetails, basically everything with spores).









In the water is a Microsorum pteropus "Narrow leaf" and on land is a Selaginella apoda.









It might be tricky to see, but I've planted some moss just under the water surface (Solenostoma tetragonum).









Here you can (maybe) see the water droplets on the epiweb.

My next step is ordering more plants and mosses. I'm worried about my humidity which is probably too low. I was hoping that the epiweb-wall would increase it a lot, but I was probably wrong there. This is bad news since the whole point is growing mosses on the stump. I know nothing about the watering stuff you use here, but any tips on how to solve this? I hear words such as misting and rain systems be thrown about, but I don't know how it works. It's very important that the technology can be hidden well, my original purpose with the open tank and sump was so that I could hide all that stuff.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Nice set up! I like Microsorium "narrow leaves". In my fish tank it thrives for years and just last month it's a bit 'wasting away. What other species in addition to mudskppers you want to host in this your paludarium?


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks! I don't plan to keep mudskippers in this tank, that was a suggestion from another user. I haven't decided on species yet. I will continue planting it and then I'll see if I can find anything that will like it there. On the list of stuff that has been considered is: killis, anoles, firebelly newt/toad and betta among others. I've also considered leaving it animal free and see what happens. I already have water fleas, spiders, wood lice and other fun things appear without my help, so it would be interesting to study how it more long term.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Maybe some microrasbora... Good luck!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I've been a bit worried that a leaf would fall down and plug the drain. It would not result in a flooded apartment, but the build would be ruined. So I thought I would measure the water level and turn off the pumps if it's too high.

This is done by measuring the resistance over this audio plug. When it's submerged the resistance is much lower.









I've wired up an arduino to measure this. If the resistance drops then it opens a relay...









..which in turn is connected to a "twilight sensing relay" where I've replaced the LDR with the relay controlled by the arduino (the cable which enters through the bottom). 









So now the pumps turn off and an alarm sounds if the water level is too high!


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

The tank is looking great, really like that water shot, looks like its a real place outdoors. The rimless tank makes it look even better however it poses the problem of this being essentially a fish habitat no? A firebelly newt or frog would easily and readily decide to head on a great escape rather than use that well done setup of yours. 

Thats a very clever use of the audio plug I have seen similar things done with nails but this is perfect since it wont harm any creatures you might put in. How much of a resistance drop do you get with that, in water vs out of water? That arduino you put to use to monitor the resistance and send current to activate the relays definitely has alot of free ports for additional features.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks! I still haven't given up on keeping some amphibian in there, but I prioritize the plants first. I was thinking that maybe one could use Teflon spray to make the glass more slippery? Would that work? Or some other clever device.. 

The way the resistance is measured is by applying current over a resistor with known resistance. The audio plug is then connected in parallel to this known resistor, which leads to a lower overall resistance. From this the resistance over the plug can be calculated. I don't remember which resistor I used, but for my particular setup the voltage drops from 1V to 0.8V when the plug is submerged. But that could be adjusted by choosing another resistor.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

And I would like to use the arduino for something fun, but I can't really come up with anything. I was thinking of continuously measuring the humidity and control a fogger/sprayer. Just need to find a cheap hygrometer that fits.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Today I've added the water inhabitants, some 20 cardinal tetras. Maybe not the most exciting in terms of behavior, but one of the most beautiful freshwater fish in my opinion.









I've also done some planting. It looks a bit crappy at the moment, and I'm not sure if I'll be keeping the ferns in there, but I though I would post whenever I plant anything to keep track of how thing are growing. Anyways, the fern is a common Lady fern (Athyrium filix-femina) and the orchid a mini cultivar of Phalaenopsis.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Just another entry in my planting diary..









Anemia millefoliia









Davallia trichomanoides









I also planted some Java moss (Vesicularia dubyana) by the water edge.









A tropical pillow moss (Dicranum) that I got from the vendor because the shipment was incomplete. I'm not sure if I'll keep it, but it can stay there for the time being.










Oh, and I got some moss mix today! I'll grind it up with sphagnum before applying it to the moss wall. Hopefully that will help it to retain enough moisture.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Mixed the moss mix with sphagnum and applied to the epiweb.









If I wake up tomorrow morning and it's still moist then I think this tank will work out after all. Otherwise it may have to get an early retirement


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

So, I woke up and the wall was still moist. I'm starting to feel vaguely optimistic about this now 

I have two questions though.
1. I currently have 2*54W T5 lights. Is that well suited for growing moss (and other stuff, ferns mainly) or should I add the second ramp I have laying around for 4*54W? I'm mainly worried about my already low humidity.

2. Is there some type of "vine like" fern that can be planted in the very moist soil and then cover the rather dry stump? I've (at least temporarily) given up on the plans to grow moss on the stump. Please say that there is


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

Too bad the walls aren't all glass, you could have added some vampire crabs.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, that would have been perfect for the tank. I'm thinking of adding a glass frame on the two sides where the epiweb is. Then I could not have any plants which grow out of
the tank, which sucks a little, but it would be able to keep some more types of animals.


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Rasmus said:


> 2. Is there some type of "vine like" fern that can be planted in the very moist soil and then cover the rather dry stump? I've (at least temporarily) given up on the plans to grow moss on the stump. Please say that there is


Not really "vine like", but _Pleopeltis polypodioides_ might work?
According to wikipedia it can survive without water for 100 years


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

I'd love to have Resurrection ferns, but I've heard that they always die in a viv after a while. Is this true? Maybe they would like it better in my tank since it's open..? Can you detach them from the board you get them from and attach them to your wood without them dying on you?

Oh, does anyone have any thoughts on question 1 above?


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Rasmus said:


> I'd love to have Resurrection ferns, but I've heard that they always die in a viv after a while. Is this true? Maybe they would like it better in my tank since it's open..? Can you detach them from the board you get them from and attach them to your wood without them dying on you?
> 
> Oh, does anyone have any thoughts on question 1 above?


Yes, they seem a bit tricky. I have two in seperate vivs and I'm struggeling to keep them alive. 
The smaller one looks okey but hasn't grown much since I got it and the larger one has lost most of it's fronds, but it looks like there is some new growth on the way so im hoping it will come back.

I think good airflow is key, so it seems likely that your tank will be better suited for it then a "regular" tank.


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

I've had some that do quite well. You could detach them, but they may not make it. Much better if you leave on the media they are growing on. A bit slow growing.



Rasmus said:


> I'd love to have Resurrection ferns, but I've heard that they always die in a viv after a while. Is this true? Maybe they would like it better in my tank since it's open..? Can you detach them from the board you get them from and attach them to your wood without them dying on you?
> 
> Oh, does anyone have any thoughts on question 1 above?


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Then I'll get some and give it a try. I really like the look of them, so I'd be thrilled if I could make it work.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

The main thing with ferns our they create bulbs and need a cold season. I would pot them and move them out for a few months to allow them to "die off" then they grow back. Happens every year at my parents house or in extremely cold environments.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Long time since last update. Things haven't quite been going my way, but on the other hand I have neglected the tank a bit as well.

First the bad things:
-The lady fern didn't survive being so close to the lights and got burnt leafs
-The Java fern got ugly leafs because of the dry air (I assume)
-The orchid got wet feet and was replanted elsewhere
-The moss wall never takes off!

The last point is really screwing up my plans for this tank, to the point of me wanting to give up on it. I've therefore decided to turn down my ambitions for the tank and just go for something that looks nice and is easy to maintain. No more fern/moss biotope thing. Sucks a little, but at least now I know that it's not possible to grow a lush moss forest in 20% relative humidity. Bring on the I-told-you-sos 









Overview. I'll try to take some photos with a real camera because my phone can't deal with the differences in brightness.









Planted a Bacopa caroliniana and a Spathiphyllum wallisii in the water section. Hopefully they will be happy there.









Planted some Ficus pumila. I hope it will be as invasive as you guys say is it  I want it to cover my failed moss wall as soon as possible.









Planted an Hedera helix which I hope will cover the top of the stump rapidly.

Except for all these drawbacks the rest of the tank seems happy.

















The aquatic moss is thriving.









Planted a Peperomia rotundifolia which seems to do fine.









The sheet moss is slooowly growing in.









I cut off all the old leaves from the Rabbit's foot fern, and it is happily producing new ones.









A Muehlenbeckia complexa that I bought for unknown reasons.


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh btw, I realize that it's getting a bit cluttered with many different types of plants. That's because I'm still trying to figure out what grows well in there and what doesn't. I'm aiming for just a few plant species in the end.


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

I swear I had terrible moss growth in my 90 gallon with a waterfall feature and then after leaving it untouched for a few months it exploded, now im spending more time removing moss then removing dead moss. 

I'm no expert when it comes to plants so that's essentially what I do to, throw it in, test it out whatever lives great whatever doesn't Ill try to revive elsewhere (probably not the most cost effective method). 

Don't give up be patient, start tank #2 and let this one mature!


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Haha, I take a similar approach. I'm thinking that if it starts to show some growth while the vines are doing their thing, then I can remove them. I've ordered a fogger now because I think the humidity is just too low. Everything in the tank has a very dry look, from the leafs to the curled up leaf litter to pieces of moss that dry up to white hard pieces unless they are in contact with the substrate or the wall. Hopefully that will help!


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## Adogowo (Feb 8, 2013)

Hey Just wanted to chime in on the tank. Looks great so far. As far as moss culture goes i grow moss here in Colorado in the summer under 20% shade cloth with free air circulation at RH of 20-30%. The key is mist and spores mostly mist though the spores are already in the air or on the log unless you baked it. Sorry I didn't read the whole thread. I misted 8 times a day never letting the surface dry out past half of total saturation. I collected some moss that had spore cases on top of it and kept it alive in the mist. Whenever I went out to check my bonsai trees I would lightly flick the spore cases and they would release a small cloud of spores. Spores are "ripe" when they are brown/red if they're still green then it is too early yet. These are temperate mosses that I have had sucess with. 

"pieces of moss that dry up to white hard pieces unless they are in contact with the substrate or the wall."

Is your PH extremely high this could lead to a buildup of salts in the closed environment you have that might inhibit moss growth. 

Oh you sound like the audrino is easy for you, you should be able to program a spray bar to come on based on sensors or just time to keep background saturated. Once the moss establishes itself its "roots" will keep it in contact with the background and take up water easily even if it dries out. That's the reason a clump of moss hols on to sand dirt substrate when you pick it up.  Don't give up moss grows (in the shade) in our high desert I'm sure we can encourage it on epiweb. The pic has a little silver moss my fav and a nice chusion of green. The moss is actually 3-4 inches deep being green only toward the top/tips of each plant. Sorry no idea on botanical names.


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## allllllen (Sep 24, 2011)

WOW .
i love how that stump looks with all the plants growing around it.
Great job man!


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## singhm29 (Jun 28, 2009)

Just a random thought, getting a sheet of glass that is the same size as the bottom and then cutting out a large rectangle in the middle so you have an even border of glass going around the entire tank would prevent some creatures (the not so good climbers) from scaling the background and making it out. At the same time using a single peice of glass would give you a clean look instead of overlapping a bunch of separate pieces (might even help increase humidity)

How is your water sensor doing? any problems with it not reading things correctly? I am thinking of implementing something similar but I get the feeling when the tank is empty the moistness of the environment might keep the audio plug wet giving a false reading..


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

A short update. I'm rather disappointed with the tank, in particular the moss wall. I'm drawing up grand schemes regarding the fate of the tank, but in the mean time I'm simply neglecting it. I do a partial water change every three weeks or so and that's about it. Still it looks rather nice I think.


















Regarding the question about salt buildup in the moss wall. We have extremely soft water here and I do not use fertilizers, so that is not the issue.

Regarding the water sensor. It has worked flawlessly all the time. There is a large difference in conductivity between saturated air, even if water precipates on the plug, and when it's submerged.


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## papa_mcknight (Feb 3, 2013)

Just discovered this thread, is this setup still running?


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## Rasmus (Sep 13, 2011)

Nope, it never quite got to where i wanted it so i tore it down


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## papa_mcknight (Feb 3, 2013)

Sorry to hear that


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Live and learn bro. I haven't been in the hobby for too long but it seems like so much trial and error. I presume because all want the perfect piece of jungle/forest. Now you know for next time. For the record, it looks badass!


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