# first dart frog tank hopefully



## godzilla200sx (Jan 10, 2010)

hey all iv just borke down my marine fish set up and have been after some dart frogs for many years, so im going to go for it now i have a spare tank doing nothing. tank is a aqua one AR-620t so basically its a tall 28gal tank .plastic split lid etc. 

i take it the above should be fine. only thing as its had salt water in it am i best of giving it a wipe with bleach . 
and have a few questions 

also the light units are those little double energy saving things . i have a spare 38w light unit avalable to use with a repti-glo 2.0 tube. (with this bulb be ok or do i have to get a stronger one or differnet type)

also . iv seen alot about fogers and rain/sprayers what do you guess suggest id like the tank to be relativly clear most of the time no just steamed up so i cant see anything.

would these exo-tera waterfalls be ok to use or are they a waste of money .

what do people recomend for a natural looking back ground i dont really want just a slab of foam stuck there.

thats it for now i think , i have used search but thought id ask anyway 

cheers gaz


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## dendroderek (Dec 3, 2009)

As far as the waterfalls I think they would be a total waste of money for multiple reasons. The whole unit is rather cumbersome for what you get, including the cord. You have to monitor the water level really close because the pump cavitates really easy, and you can not check it without opening it up (not that big of a deal but still a pain.) They get rather unsanitary when flies and other matter get suck in the basin and rot. Also I think they present an unecessary danger to the frogs because they can get caught up and drown. 

Maybe you should try your hand at creating a water feature out of great stuff, a lot cheaper and its custom for your tank. 

Derek


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## godzilla200sx (Jan 10, 2010)

you have a point there i may give the waterfall a miss unless i go custom with it. what would you recomend with misting/ fogging etc


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## Omead (Mar 21, 2009)

Welcome to Dendroboard!

I made my own custom waterfall with handifoam (similar to great stuff). If you do it yourself just plan it out well and make sure your pump is accessable and the drainage for the waterfall water is good enough for the flow so you don't come home one day and find your tank flooded because too much crap clogged the drain. 

As far as misting/foggers go it really depends on how much you plan to spend.

Fogging would be a cheaper way to go than misting and look really nice. If you decide to choose this route I would definately look into doing one of the external setups. You can search the forums for ideas on this. I have not personally used this method but I have only heard good things about it. I have one of the ultra sonic foggers and IMO its garbage and can be dangerous for the frogs. Also if you use a fogger and not a misting system keep in mind you will most likely still need to mist sometimes in your tank. Foggers are great for keeping up the humidity!

Misting can be a little more expensive (unless you are hand misting) but can save you time and worries of forgetting to mist sometimes. If you decide to go with a misting system I reccomend that you do not buy the habba mist system, they don't last long. Go with one of the better systems. I don't know of all the different systems but I use mistking and its great. Don't forget to get a timer if you get one. Mistking.com sells a nice dependable seconds timer that has an internal rechargable battery so that if your power goes out your timer don't get stuck on and running. They also have a starter pump available for around a hundred bucks and can run up to 15 nozzels. If and when you increase your collection, you can connect your exixting misting system to other nearby tanks.

If you connect a PC fan to your ventillation it can help against the condensation and give you a better viewing and also give your viv an exchange of air. I used to use one of these on a timer that ran about 3 times per day but I lost it last time I moved. It cleared the glass up pretty good and increased the visibility but now I don't bother with it. As long as I see condensation on my viv walls I know my frogs aren't drying up.

Whatever you decide.. good luck and welcome to this addictive hobby


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## godzilla200sx (Jan 10, 2010)

id love to create a waterfall with small pond area but i dont want to drill holes in the tank as it was expensive when bought and id like to keep it as it is for future use if the frog thing dont work out. in years to come etc. 

am i best of useing eggcrates(pastic things) for a false floor so any soil ect dont get wahed into any pump if i use one. (im very confused on the initial substrate area on whats the best way to do it )

also am i right in thinking like you mention above the expanding foam stuff for a background and then carve it to shape. will this just stick to the glass properly and how do ppl get it to the nice light brown colour instead of white .also if im buying some spray foam what do i have to look out for to make sure its not gonna harm the frogs .


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## Omead (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm not sure what your tank looks like but I don't think you would have to drill any holes. You can use a submersible pump and recirculate the water like many people do. This just requires the power cable to be run through the top if you have a spot for that. Probably have a place you could siphon water out if the water level gets too high.

Eggcrate is a great drainage layer method. With the eggcrate you can create different levels of your substrate and also it works really good for making a pond feature. LECA I like to use in smaller tanks and also as another substrate layer on top of the eggcrate due to the benificial bacteria and additional filtration. You could also create a resevoir for the pump if you use one so that debri doesn't get in. Many people don't like the way the eggcrate looks in their viv but you could just silicone the sides with black or use black contact paper. Some people even set it up so they can fill in the space between the eggrate and the glass with pebbles.

Yes you just carve the greatstuff to how you want it but for as far as it sticking to the glass in not sure. I've read that people put silicone on the glass first for the great stuff to stick better to. I use handifoam for my vivs because it sticks to the glass better, it cures faster, and it is a dark gray to black color so its easier to hide it than the yellow-white greatstuff. I'm not sure what to watch for in these foams that can cause harm to the inhabitants but I would probably stick to one that many of the experienced people use.


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## Omead (Mar 21, 2009)

Hopefully I made sense, I'm sick right now and my brain is a little slow atm.


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## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

Like everyone said the all the premade waterfalls are garbage. Iv used the Exo Terra One that pond area never drained back to the pump so I had to rip that tank apart and take out the water fall. The other one I bought was made out of fiberglass I guess and like a normal fountain it had an opening in the bottom of the pond area that should have had screen covering it but it dident. Well my frogs ended up missing for a couple days I thought they were just hiding but no they got behind the waterfall and couldent get out sooo that whole tank had to be ripped apart. Needless say I'll never! Use a premade waterfall again. And as for thoes disc foggers if you have ever touched where the fog comes out (I did) it hurts really bad so I can only imagin what it would do to a frog.


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## godzilla200sx (Jan 10, 2010)

Tony- so would you suggest best way is to have a custom foam background/waterfall and use say an external fogger with only a PVC tube in tank I don't mind fog comming from above will look rather cool , also as Omead said above does anyone know what the foam may be called in the uk as I don't think we have what's mentioned above ,


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## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

Yes custom foam background with waterfall like said above you can carve the foam anyway you want. Plus with the money you would have spent on the Exo-Terra you could build a sick waterfall and background. And i think if you could put the fog pipe above the waterfall so they both trickel down it would look cool. As for the foam in the uk I have no idea.


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## godzilla200sx (Jan 10, 2010)

i think that sounds like a plan. just need to find out what type of foam to use im guessing as most people mention polyurathane as long as i get that in pure form i should be ok. iv also got a small pump from my old set up think its 600ltrs an hour but can be turned down , think that should do and as the tank has a built in filtration system at top rear of the lid i can get it going up from pump on the left across the lid and out the right side, as there are 2 half inch holes ideal for pipe. 

what am i best of doing regards heating/lighting the lid has the double 8" T5s but can easily accomodate a single 18" T8 if needs be. any sugestions. the thank is about 30" high.


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## tonybmw328i (Oct 4, 2009)

i have a 29 gallon bow front tank next to my bad that has a t-5 light on it and the plants are growing very very well. only thing is my light has 4 bulbs in it but with the option to have just two on or all four. i had all four on for a while but the tank was in the upper 80 most of the time so now i keep only two on and the temp is around 75. oh and this tank used to be a saltwater to.


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## theglassfrog (Sep 6, 2009)

the lighting should be fine as long as the frogs cant get into the fixture they can get into the smallest places. you can probably go do to the hardware store and find something similar to great stuff its just expanding foam. also just incase your lighting is too hot you can go to an electronic store and wire together a small computer fan to a dc power converter then mount it to the lid to keep the lights cool. for soil mixture i use hydro balls then the egg crate with a peice of window screen on top to hold the soil above the drainage layer, and finally its a mixture of coco bedding and sphagnum moss so the soil doesnt get packed down with all the moisture. i do this for easier drainage and plant growth. everything else is just being creative with how u want your tank to look. one last thing make sure u r able to access your pump just incase of repairs beleive me u dont want to have to rip your whole project apart its a pain in the a$$!


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## godzilla200sx (Jan 10, 2010)

theglassfrog- I'm worried the lights won't give off enough heat as there only 8" each and I can't ferlany heat at the bottom of the tank up until a out 12" off the ground I start to feel warmth on my hand , as for light fittings there behind a Perspex screen built into the lid so no worries there ,


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## godzilla200sx (Jan 10, 2010)

right guys iv kind of got my head round how it will look once finished. getting rather exited now. anyway list iv got so far
tank/lid/lights
eggcrate on order
expandable foam on order
some fly screen for above the LECA/GRAVEL to stop soil getting in water
newjet 1200 pump

things i need to get 

black or brown silicon sealer (i take it has to be aquatic safe and mould resistant) or would acrylic sealant be better 

pieces of driftwood 
couple bits of pipe for pump above
some kind of mist/rain/fog system 
something to cover the new background( any suggestions) coco fibre maybe?
bits of slate maybe
soil of some sort for the plants


get it running for a few weeks with some easy to look after plants(never done gardening in my life lol)

then introduce my 2 or 3 frogs (best of getting all at once to discourage territory issues or will they be ok if added seperate) a beginers species obviously 

any suggestions on the above things iv not yet purchased would be great. 

also anything above you would stay away from certain makes of things i mean 

thanks again really appreciate it gaz


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