# Stinky Springtail Soup



## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

So I followed the Springtail instructions on this website to a T. 

I couldnt find the "right" kind of charcoal but got Stubb's All Natural - it claims no binders, no chemicals. Says 95% hardwood and 5% vegetable binder. 

Boiled it for a pretty long time - (15 minutes?) and when I took it out it was pretty broken down. 

Has a funny odor to it, and there are bubbles in it. 

Springs are multiplying like crazy, and I added a couple small chunks to my frog acclimation box today, which two of them were very interested in. 

Also added water the other day. The mixture now is soupier than ever, and the odor/bubbles are getting worse. 

What should I do? Im thinking of just adding whole pieces of charcoal at least - they will soak up some of the water and give some solid structure for the springs.


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## Mike1239 (May 15, 2012)

Not sure what the site said but it shouldn't be soupy the boiling probably broke down the charcoal. And how the the package say no binder then 5% binder. Is the charcoal in chunk form or some kind of pressed briquet. Start over add charcoal add distilled water few pieces of uncooked rice on top and add some spring tails.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Do you have a Lowe's near by? They carry 100% natural charcoal there. I've used it for a couple years with no problem. Rather than boil it, just give it a rinse to get the dust off. Then, hit it with a hammer to get it the right size. 

I got some from Walmart but it had a very strong smell. I didn't notice any ill effects from it but was put off by the odor.


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## Mike1239 (May 15, 2012)

I I just went looking for the Stubbs online and all I found was the briquet kind it is the vegetable binder that is bubbling and smelling you have to call around to find hardwood lump charcoal I have seen it at Walmart and Home Depot. Also when you find it you have to break it up in to small pieces. Do not boil just rinse off.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks guys - I was not aware that the briquets didnt work - we didnt have anything else at our lowes. Ill have to search walmart...

Ill buy another shoebox and start over - any idea how to transfer them over?

I have a TON of springtails living in there, so Id rather not loose that whole colony...think I can spread some of that springtail infested goop around my tank to seed it with springs?

It said no chemicals or fillers I think. Typo on my part, sorry.

Thanks again all


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Got the right kind of charcoal - any suggestions as to how I should transfer the springs over?

Thanks


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

maybe place some of the new charcoal into the current culture with some food on it and see if they transfer themselves to it? Can they be blown from the current charcoal into the new culture? You won't need to collect them all. Just enough to get them going again in the new set up.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

I have transferred springtails by filling their container with water, then just blowing them off the top of the water (springtails float) into another container. Although, I'd do this outside, or over the bathtub. Not all of them get blown into the new container....


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks guys - Ill try to get as many of them as possible into this new culture. 

Can I dump some of this stinky RO/briquette/yeast/springtail mix into my new viv?

Thanks again


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

kingfisherfleshy said:


> Thanks guys - Ill try to get as many of them as possible into this new culture.
> 
> Can I dump some of this stinky RO/briquette/yeast/springtail mix into my new viv?
> 
> Thanks again


I wouldn't. If the viv in question does not have any frogs yet, you could dump it into deli cups, set them in the viv, and feed some yeast beside the culture and do NOT feed the culture itself. When most of them have moved into the viv to feed, grab your containers of goo and head for the trash.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I agree with Pumilo. Since there may be some question about the stinky goo culture, it's not worth the risk. Springtails are cheap and you really don't need a lot of them to get a new culture going.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

frogface said:


> I agree with Pumilo. Since there may be some question about the stinky goo culture, it's not worth the risk. Springtails are cheap and you really don't need a lot of them to get a new culture going.


Goo is cheap, too. Save some springs and throw it out. You can always get some non-frog-related goo, later.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

I decanted a very little bit (10mL) with lots of springs and added it before I got this. 

Started a new culture by flooding the old one, and using a straw to suck up the springs and then letting them drop out into the new culture.

Made sure not to drink any of the water - but Im sure I ate some springs. 

We will see how the new culture does. 

Threw everything else away.

Thanks for all the help guys.


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## Yobosayo (Sep 27, 2009)

Vegetable binders, the pink slime of the charcoal world.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Yea - Im glad to be done with it.

Springs were going crazy in there though!


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

How did they taste?


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Update on this, after sucking up surface scum and transferring with a drinking straw - the new colony (which originally had a slight odor) no longer does. 

Springs are finally starting to boom again, all of the water seems to be covered in a moving film. 

Soon Ill have my viv seeded. 

Thanks again for all the help guys. 

PS - was lucky enough to avoid getting any of the "stinky springtail soup" into my mouth, but the blowing method was just not working. This was the only way I could come up with.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Sucking does come with other risks... see the link here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/other-frogs/68053-leaf-litter-importance-2.html#post596089 

Ed


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## chuck norris (Oct 30, 2012)

Ed said:


> Sucking does come with other risks... see the link here http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/other-frogs/68053-leaf-litter-importance-2.html#post596089
> 
> Ed


Sucking and bad pooters appear to pose a legitimate cause for concern.


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

I did not know this. 

Although a simple google search reveals almost nothing. 

This is clearly not serious/common or there would be literature on it. 

I also believe that we are dealing with a different species of collumbella. 

I would be interested to see literature that actually pertained to that actual subject.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Unless you search the reference from the book (which is provided in the link in that post), you are going to get swamped by the Morgonellon's discussion lists. 

The actual citation is a case report which is cited as follows Hurd, P.D. (1954:814) Alaska: "During the past two summers I have served as research entomologist at the Arctic Research Laboratory, Point Barrow, Alaska." "Apparently because of the use of the aspirator, a most unique case of "myiasis" (or infestation) occured." "Approximately 2 mo. after the completion of the past summer's work at Point Barrow I became ill. During the week following the onset of illness four major groups of insects (Coleoptera, Collembola, Diptera, Hymenoptera) were passed alive from the left antrum of the sinus. These insects included ... and about 50 springtails (Collembola, Isotoma olivacea Tullberg. The medical aspects, as well as the specific identification of the insects involved, are to be reported by Donald G. Casterline, M.D. (Calif. Mo. Medicine)." 

As for the argument of different species with the implication that it can't happen with the species in culture, I suggest considering how similarly we culture all of them, which demonstrates at least some flexibilty in adapting to other conditions...(such as a temperate springtail (from Alaska) surviving in the guy's sinus... 

The rareness could be an artifact of how many people collect springtails by sucking them up into something...... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

So Ed, what you're really saying is that we don't need charcoal substrates to culture springtails....?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

jacobi said:


> So Ed, what you're really saying is that we don't need charcoal substrates to culture springtails....?


I think the correct way to phrase it is that *you *may be able to skip the charcoal if you want to be a trail blazer (just think, you won't have to buy charcoal, or yeast...), but in this case *I'm content with the status quo*... 

Ed


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Good point. And imagine trying to deal with a mite infestation....


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

So you have one source from 1954 that talks about one case?

Not saying Im going to do it again - however this is not "credible" as far as scientific literature goes. 

You cant cite an unrelated paper with one reference from 1954 and expect it to fly - most literature needs to be from the last four years in the medical world to even be considered relevant. The fact that we have not found any suggests to me that it really isnt that realistic of a problem. 

It also seems ironic that putting your face to a culture and "blowing" to search for springtails doesnt cause that much concern. You are going to immediately inhale afterwards, and the juvenile ones are tiny enough that you cant tell me they do not become suspended in the air. Why arent we seeing more froggers get these ailments? 

That being said, thank you for bringing that to my attention - I will keep you posted on my condition and try something else in the future.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You'd be surprised at the crazy, 'that could* never *happen' things that can happen when it comes to these frogs.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

kingfisherfleshy said:


> You cant cite an unrelated paper with one reference from 1954 and expect it to fly - most literature needs to be from the last four years in the medical world to even be considered relevant.


I done think that's quite accurate...


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

No, it is...even when writing for standard biology scientific papers most of the time they set how old the literature can be. 

Im not saying this doesnt happen - Im just saying youd hear about it more if it was an issue. 

Anyone who is a scientist also knows that one example is not science, you need duplicates. 

I wont be doing this again, that being said there would be more recent publications than one mention in 1954 from an article not even on the subject of their infestation of humans if it was an issue.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think it's safe to say that lots of us move springtails around by sucking them through straws or blowing them into vivs, etc. It's the danger that makes this hobby so interesting! lol j/k


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## kingfisherfleshy (Mar 17, 2012)

Maybe we can cover the end in cotton or a piece of micron cloth or the such?

Who knew the bugs would be the most dangerous part of raising "poison" dart frogs. I bet youd get interesting looks if you brought that up as a convo starter.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

kingfisherfleshy said:


> No, it is...even when writing for standard biology scientific papers most of the time they set how old the literature can be.


So according to that criteria the following reference is outdated and shouldn't be used any more... 
Gosner KL; A simplified table for staging anuran embryos and larvae with notes on identification. Herpetologica 1960;16:183-190 as it would be far outside of the timeline you claim is acceptable... So I guess that it (ansd all of the other "outdated" citations) renders this paper as poorly written and invalid since they didn't follow those rules.. used old references.... 
Inbreeding Linked to Amphibian Survival in the Wild but Not in the Laboratory




kingfisherfleshy said:


> Im not saying this doesnt happen - Im just saying youd hear about it more if it was an issue.
> 
> Anyone who is a scientist also knows that one example is not science, you need duplicates


There is an inherent problem with this position (and you know I'm a skeptic on many things..) in that you are dismissing it without knowing any of the following
1) is the lack of other examples due to a lack of documentation or due to other factors (improper use of and/or malfunction of pooter). 
2) the fact that springtail collection is often done via Berlease funnel and not pooters
3) a failure of other doctors to do a write up for publication
4) a failure in others to actually end up with a significant enough of an infection/infestation to result in a severe enough illness to warrent medical attention
5) self treating that changed conditions/removed infection/infestation (example neti pot ) or even sprays like Afrin (the active ingredient Oxymetazoline is toxic to aquatic invertebrates and may be toxic to terrestrial ones directly sprayed with it...). 

So to pooh pooh it based on a lack of other occurences isn't necessarily the best science either... I posted it as something to consider and not as a guarantee that you'll end up hosting a springtail house party in your sinus... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## chuck norris (Oct 30, 2012)

Pretty sure anyone sneezing bugs would go to a doctor. Would have to think it would be documented by the hospital as well. Who wouldn't want to do a article on nose bugs? I'm not going to test the nose culture technique but have to think the possibility is extremely low.
Could always blow your nose in a little cup, add springtails and wait for the culture to boom.


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