# Bulbophyllum Orchid ID



## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I was hoping some of you Bulbo enthusiasts might help me with this one. I got it from a friend in Singapore a few years ago. He got it from somewhere in Peninsular Malaysia but I don't know exactly where (before I knew this kind of thing was not exactly legal... Whoops!  ). The pseudobulbs are about the size of a Gobstopper. The flowers have no detectable fragrance (or odor for that matter ) and are extremely tiny, about 1/8" wide or so. Hopefully the pictures are enough. They were hard to take so I apologize for the sub-par quality.

Thanks for any help.


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

You sure it is a bulbophyllum? Looks more like a pleurothallid than anything else! At least the flowers. From the plant habit it is more like a bulbo. Obviously if it is from Malaysia it is not a pleurothallid.

I can't recall seeing a bulbophyllum with hirsute flowers and spike before. Not that I know all the bulbophyllums. Could it be an Eria? Many sections of Eria have hirsute flowers, and for some reason that flower shouts Eria at me.

I'd send it (or maybe you can walk it) to Selby. Who knows, it might be a new species and they can name it after you.

Rob


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## jon (Mar 12, 2008)

Looks like an alba lindleyanum, but with 1/8" flowers, it's questionable. It's pretty sweet. I want it.


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

Does look similar to lindleyanum but the location is incorrect for that species from what I can tell. You may want to check IOSPE for other species in the section Racemosae.


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## wickerstone (Jan 19, 2009)

Nice plant Antone.


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## jon (Mar 12, 2008)

harrywitmore said:


> Does look similar to lindleyanum but the location is incorrect for that species from what I can tell. You may want to check IOSPE for other species in the section Racemosae.


Lindleyanum is endemic from Myanmar to Peninsular Thailand. Peninsular Thailand and Peninsular Malaysia share a border, so it's pretty close.

Are you sure the flowers are 1/8", Antone? They seem larger than that.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I like it. Nice orchid


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Thanks for the input everyone. I assumed it was a Bulbo b/c of the foliage and provenance. I am by no means an orchid aficionado. Haha.

Jon, I just went outside with my measuring tape and a single flower is almost exactly 1/8" in diameter.


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## jon (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm in love.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

littlefrog said:


> I'd send it (or maybe you can walk it) to Selby. Who knows, it might be a new species and they can name it after you.
> 
> Rob


...and we all know how well that turned out with Phrag. kovachii....


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

yeah no doubt. that happens in the taxonomy world more than people would like to think


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

Okay, okay. So I had to look it up in Wikipedia. 

Phragmipedium kovachii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

Thanks Anne, I had no idea what it meant.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

i was referring to the guy requesting P. kovachii as the name and the taxonomist trying to name it P. peruvianum

I had no idea he was charged for illegally transporting


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## chuckpowell (May 12, 2004)

Kind of looks like a Trias, but I don't know of any with multiple flower on a spike. Flower looks like a Stellis, but the bulbs aren't like any Stellis i know. Sorry I can't except to eliminate a couple genera. Good luck.

Best,

Chuck


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

frogparty said:


> i was referring to the guy requesting P. kovachii as the name and the taxonomist trying to name it P. peruvianum
> 
> I had no idea he was charged for illegally transporting


The worst part was that Marie Selby Botanical was fined heavily for their part in that fiasco. I honestly thought the suggestion to take the orchid there for ID was a joke in reference to the P. kovachii incident....


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

Not intentionally. Selby does do a lot of good work with orchids too... They've been hammered enough on the kovachii thing. Stupid, but orchids make people do stupid things. And I think it should be called Phrag peruvianum, myself.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

I agree with you, Rob. Selby has always been a great supporter of research for orchids and gesneriads, and they definitely got a raw deal with the _Phrag. kovachii_ issue. Probably the most ridiculous aspect of that orchid, is that the plant was declared at customs in Miami--and waved through!

I do have a couple of _Phrag. kovachii/peruvianum_ hybrids--and they aren't easy to grow....

Anyway, Antone take pictures to Selby for identification--and tell them you bought the plant at some orchid show--and you don't remember the vendor....


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

candm519 said:


> Okay, okay. So I had to look it up in Wikipedia.
> 
> Phragmipedium kovachii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Could someone explain this in layman terms? I don't think I read the article properly because what I got from it was that it was unclassified before, a guy named it a certain name and hence the new name fell under a prohibited classification so he gets sentenced with a guilty verdict? This can't be right so could someone clear this up for me?

Sorry to side track a pm is fine if this is sidetracking too far.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Well, the simplest way I've heard the story (from some persons involved):

Kovach was on a buying/collecting trip in Peru. 

While there he purchased several orchids from a local (and was informed that they were wild-collected locally).

Kovach had the appropriate USDA import permit to bring certain orchids back into the US. The plants he obtained on the trip were packaged and brought in as checked baggage on his return to Miami. He declared all the plants at customs, and they went through USDA inspection (from a source VERY close to the story--the plant now _P. kovachii_ was listed as Phragmepedium sp. on the paperwork).

Kovach later gave one of the plants to Marie Selby for confirmation that the orchis was indeed a new species, with the request that the plant be named _Phragmepedium kovachii_. It has been debated that the plant may have actually been _Phragmepedium peruvianum_, but that species had never been properly described/cataloged.

After the discovery was published by Marie Selby, the Peruvian government filed a formal complaint that the plant had been taken from the country without a CITES permit (all Phragmepedium species are CITES protected). (On another note, the collection locale of the original plants was clear cut and developed shortly after the orchid was procured by Kovach--and is most likely why the Peruvian government really pressed the US on the issue).

After many lengthy court battles, Kovach was given a slap on the wrist--and Marie Selby received a major fine (because they allgegedly should have known better than to accept the orchid).

Sorry for the temporary thread hijack...


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

I would definitely not take it to Selby nor any other institution for id. I'm not sure I would have even posted it here.


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

Why? Whatever it is, it certainly isn't CITES Appendix I. Enough mislabeled bulbophyllums get shipped out of that area already. It isn't an intentional smuggling act, just nobody knows what to call some things. There are 2500-3000 species of bulbophyllum if i recall, and nobody has done a comprehensive study of them to sort things out.

Anybody with a substantial bulbophyllum collection probably has at least 25% of their plants improperly identified. Bulbos are a mess. I have a few friends who have had bulbos in the USA since before CITES (hence legal by definition), and if we had a proper taxonomist go through the collection they'd probably have all sorts of 'new' species.

I'd say it is an act of service to get the thing identified.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Or you could just send it to me


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I have no problem admitting I unknowingly got this plant in a not-so-legal way. It was years ago and both the guy and I didn't know it was such. Had I gotten a whole boat load I probably wouldn't be on here saying anything. Haha.

I emailed him when I found out the laws on this kind of plant trading and he and I both stopped. Shortly after that, I obtained an import permit. I stay away from orchids although I've gotten a few hitchhiker orchids on other plants like Dischidia and stuff that I brought in from the Philippines that all went through customs fine and dandy.


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

Actually ALL Orchid species are covered by CITES Appendix II and therefor must be accompanied with CITES documentation if entering the US. As we all know ignorance of the law is no defense. 

I still don't think it's a good idea to discuss these sorts of things on open forums. I guess I'm fairly sensitive about this since I had a friend arrested and sentenced to prison over a CITE violation. He said he was also ignorant of the fact the plant in question was covered by CITES.


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

The documentation for Appendix II is much less demanding than Appendix I... 

I don't import much, but I think for appendix II it is enough to state the genus on the paperwork. ie. you can import plants as 'Bulbophyllum species', without a formal identification. For Appendix I, you need an arm, a leg, and at least a couple of teeth sometimes.

I know we get in pleurothallids from Columbia without species names. Some of them just have numbers.

Rob


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

I believe you are correct Rob.


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## jon (Mar 12, 2008)

Unless one can prove some sort of scientific purpose for bringing in CITES I plants, it's nearly impossible to bring em into the US. There is an exemption for sterile culture (i.e. in flask) because plants in sterile culture are generally believed to be cultivated and not wild-collected. Even then, from what I've heard, a lot of inspectors reject flasks for some reason. I stay the hell away from CITES I plants on imports.


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

jon said:


> Unless one can prove some sort of scientific purpose for bringing in CITES I plants, it's nearly impossible to bring em into the US. There is an exemption for sterile culture (i.e. in flask) because plants in sterile culture are generally believed to be cultivated and not wild-collected. Even then, from what I've heard, a lot of inspectors reject flasks for some reason. I stay the hell away from CITES I plants on imports.


The only real issue I've found with CITES plants isn't really getting them into the US, it's getting the export permits from the country of origin.... Even the US is a real pain to obtain CITES export permits. A grower friend in the Miami area spent over a year trying to obtain permits to ship some specimen Ravenea madagascariensis "Majesty Palms" to Canada. The palm's origin is Madagascar, where it is CITES protected--and Canada was requiring CITES paperwork for the palms--even though they were coming from Florida....


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## Steve_nova (Feb 22, 2010)

littlefrog said:


> You sure it is a bulbophyllum? Looks more like a pleurothallid than anything else! At least the flowers. From the plant habit it is more like a bulbo. Obviously if it is from Malaysia it is not a pleurothallid.
> 
> I can't recall seeing a bulbophyllum with hirsute flowers and spike before. Not that I know all the bulbophyllums. Could it be an Eria? Many sections of Eria have hirsute flowers, and for some reason that flower shouts Eria at me.
> 
> ...


Probably a Bulbophyllum, no orchid genus of the Pleurothallid alliance has pseudobulbs. The flowers do admittedly look superficially like a Stelis though.

Not seen this one before either. Looks like a Bulbo vegetively but could be an Eria as said above? Interesting...


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

I was under the impression that ALL Orchids are listed under CITES somewhere. This means they all need paper work right?

Nonetheless Antone that is a very neat orchid!!!!
Definately differs from most Bulbophyllums or even Cirrhopetalums that Ive ever seen.

Todd


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## harrywitmore (Feb 9, 2004)

All species orchids need a CITES permit whether they are listed in Appendix I or II. But, there are many more restrictions on Appendix I species.

I'm not sure about hybrids but I think they need CITES also. I also don't know about flasks.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I think flasks are less stringently regulated


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

I think its b/c flasked plants are the origin plants. Like... I heard part of the problem with importing orchids is that you have to know the complete history of where the plant came from. Flasked ones are easier to do that with b/c the person should have that info.

Does that make sense?


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## jon (Mar 12, 2008)

Plants can be wild-collected and still be CITES acceptable. It just needs to be shown that they were legally collected. Hybrids are CITES exempt because they are assumed to be artificially propagated. Flasks (even of appendix I) are CITES exempt as well because the sterile culture proves they were not wild-collected plants. Even then though, the USDA has a history of seizing flasks of CITES I plants in vitro and using CITES as cause.


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Thanks for the clarification Jon. That makes much more sense than what I said. Haha.


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