# how cold is too cold? emergency planning for frogs.



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

this is the first winter we've owned herps and I'm watching the temperature situation and planning for frogs at the same time. I know that the frogs are more heat sensitive than cold sensitive so I think our usual temps will be ok with lights (I can play with CFL or LED to see which brings the best temp range) and our night temps are generally in the high 60's which I think should be ok for frogs. (Looking for confirmation here).

I'm wondering about what I could do in case of power outage - I have a plan for the lizards- I have snake bags that I will put them in and I will wear them under my coat. But frogs are too delicate for this. 

We do not often have power outages - once in the three years I lived here but if we had one in a cold snap and it was minus something degrees, the house could quickly become very cold. If it was truly that cold, we'd probably pack up the menagerie and go to a hotel - could i transport frogs in deli cups with moss under my coat?

Edited to add: is there a type of frog that is less cold sensitive than others?

Suggestions welcome. I won't get frogs until i figure this out so I need to figure it out by spring!!! And figure out how to culture FF!

thanks in advance, everyone!


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

High 60's is no issue whatsoever.

Not sure what to tell you about the power going out - it's all depending on what type of housing condition you are in.

s


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I've been thinking about this lately, as winter creeps in. There are some threads around for emergencies that are worth searching. 

For now, I'm planning to suit up a small temporary container for each frog and store it. If we get our rare snow/ice storm (which always results in power outages) I can toss the frogs into their containers, box the containers, and, take them somewhere with heat (to the beach! hah). 

However, with snow and ice, the roads will not likely be passable, so I'm still working on Plan B.


----------



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Kris, we drive in bad ice and snow here, so not worried about that piece. I am worried about the box getting too cold on the way to the somewhere warm.

edited to spell Kris properly. oops.


----------



## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Beth,we're in England so my help is limited,we utilise polystyrene boxes for frog transportation,and also heatpacks if the occasion warrants it.It might be worth asking Doug (Pumilio) about sutable types of pack over there,as i'm sure he uses something to aid in the temperatures when he ships his feeders
regards
Stu


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Beth,

There are several options.. if you have a a camp stove, you can always warm up some water and put the warm (70-75 F) in bottles and put that with the frogs into a cooler. You can then place a temp probe into the cooler and monitor any changes (you may want to drill a hole for the temp probe to reduce heat loss). This will also work for the reptiles. 

If you think you may have to go to a hotel, there is also the option of thermoelectric coolers which give you the option to heat or cool the container (as an example see Coleman - 40 Quart PowerChill Hot/Cold Thermoelectric Cooler -= ). You'll have to check to make sure it works the way you would like but these are also a possibility as most can be run off of a car (for example for transport). 

In either case, a good cooler is a much better option than under your clothes as long as you can include something to warm it up and keep it warm. 

Ed


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

stu&shaz said:


> Beth,we're in England so my help is limited,we utilise polystyrene boxes for frog transportation,and also heatpacks if the occasion warrants it.It might be worth asking Doug (Pumilio) about sutable types of pack over there,as i'm sure he uses something to aid in the temperatures when he ships his feeders
> regards
> Stu





Ed said:


> Hi Beth,
> 
> There are several options.. if you have a a camp stove, you can always warm up some water and put the warm (70-75 F) in bottles and put that with the frogs into a cooler. You can then place a temp probe into the cooler and monitor any changes (you may want to drill a hole for the temp probe to reduce heat loss). This will also work for the reptiles.
> 
> ...


I use Phase 22 packs. I know you have a few, Beth! Use Ed's idea of using a camp stove to heat some water. Use that to soak the Phase paks in to heat them up between 70 to 80 F. Put those in with the frogs in a cooler. They should last longer and be more stable than warmed water.


----------



## Froggyplush (Oct 28, 2011)

great thread need to plan something now


----------



## Geckoguy (Dec 10, 2008)

We lost power for about a week in October and it was getting down in the high 40s inside our apt. after the snow storm and I used Ed's suggested method of the camp stove and water bottles. I just put several blankets around the tanks and and stuck the heated bottles in there and it kept it up into the mid 60s. Frogs are alive and well


----------



## gardennub (Dec 10, 2011)

I know something that people do with their reptiles which could easily work for frogs....get some of those hand warmers, the ones that work for like 8 hours or so, and one of those cheap styrofoam coolers (or any container really). Put the heaters in the bottom, then a towel to seperate the heaters from the frogs, then a container with the frogs. 
You could easily use some plastic containers(if they are safe?) throw in some leaf litter and ur done.
Keep an eye on the temp. though. Dont want it to get too hot.


----------



## gardennub (Dec 10, 2011)

I like the water bottle idea too


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

gardennub said:


> I know something that people do with their reptiles which could easily work for frogs....get some of those hand warmers, the ones that work for like 8 hours or so, and one of those cheap styrofoam coolers (or any container really). Put the heaters in the bottom, then a towel to seperate the heaters from the frogs, then a container with the frogs.
> You could easily use some plastic containers(if they are safe?) throw in some leaf litter and ur done.
> Keep an eye on the temp. though. Dont want it to get too hot.


You have to keep an eye on those hand warmers as they consume oxygen. 

Ed


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Ed said:


> You have to keep an eye on those hand warmers as they consume oxygen.
> 
> Ed


Yet another benefit to using Phase 22 packs. Phase Packs do not use oxygen.


----------



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Weirdly enough last night we had some power flickering on and off due to 80 mph winds (was wild). Luckily we pretty much stayed online the whole time 

All Alaskan's Have Camp Stoves. I just need to get it out of the shed where it has been since I became a parent and my husband decided his tenting days are over. There is also always the grill, for heating water in an emergency.

And the cooler idea - Brilliant - that sounds like a GREAT investment for all our delicate pets in case of power outage. I'll also buy those shipping packs too.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> Weirdly enough last night we had some power flickering on and off due to 80 mph winds (was wild). Luckily we pretty much stayed online the whole time
> 
> All Alaskan's Have Camp Stoves. I just need to get it out of the shed where it has been since I became a parent and my husband decided his tenting days are over. There is also always the grill, for heating water in an emergency.
> 
> And the cooler idea - Brilliant - that sounds like a GREAT investment for all our delicate pets in case of power outage. I'll also buy those shipping packs too.


Since you don't need the phase paks in bulk, you can get them from a couple of our sponsors. Both Alpha Pro Breeders and Josh's Frogs carry them.


----------



## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

We've used Phase 22 packs and 40 hour heat packs in emergencies... Both work very well. I personally like 40hr packs for this purpose since they stay hot longer. You can throw a couple 40hr packs in a sock (seems to make them last longer), and throw the sock under a vivarium. Our store was _42F INSIDE_ last month when we had the freak storm which caused week-long power outages, our vivariums were kept around 62-68F, using the heat packs. (We have a generator, but we were using it for the breeding rooms at home)

For hatchling geckos, we stacked 5-6 heat packs in a sleeve, and stacked kritter keepers over the sleeve in a pyramid shape... Then we covered the pyramid of kritter keepers with a couple blankets.  Worked great. I'd assume the same would work with small morph tubs & grow outs.

4 packs were suspended INSIDE our 55G vivarium (despite the oxygen risk), and the cage was a steady 65F. Keeping heat packs in a smaller 100% sealed viv might cause trouble, tho - so keep oxygen in mind. (Or use Phase 22s for those)

Either way. Now is the time to think about this stuff in preparation for winter. Don't wait.

Good thread, Beth!


----------



## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

Kerosene heater in the frog room?


----------



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

ChrisK said:


> Kerosene heater in the frog room?



I was wondering if anyone would suggest something like this - it might be good for the rest of us to have a kero heater, but I'm ASKEERED that the dog or kid will knock it over and we will all die a fiery death.


----------



## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

^^^ We used Kerosene heaters at our old car shop and it left a bit of a residue on things... (Glass is where it was most apparent) They sell clean burning stuff now, so that might be better. We switched to propane heat in the garage, and it worked much better in my experience. Most forced air propane heaters aren't legal for in-home use, tho. The bullet style heaters could run for 5 minutes out of the hour and keep even a 1000sq/ft room warm.

So either way (propane/kerosene) Beth you can have that fiery death you mentioned.  haha


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'd like one to go please, but can I get it without the fiery death?


----------



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

i have seen those propane heaters on construction sites - they look full of fiery death. Kind of dragonish. But warm!!!

I think we probably should just get a generator, really.


----------



## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

My father had a small one for his den years ago, about the size of a humidifier. Definitely WARM.


----------



## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

A few years ago we had one heck of an ice storm and it shut down this part of the state for a few weeks. We were one of the lucky neighborhoods and were only without power for about 4 days.

Everything we had was electric except a small "oh doesn't that look nice" fireplace that had a flame size and heat output of a Bic cigarette lighter. After day 3 of holding a frying pan over the flicker of flame trying to thaw a frozen pancake collected from our new food stash, the laundry baskets, sitting in the ice in snow in the back yard I had an epiphany that electric alone sucks rotten eggs. Afterward, I also remember reading one of our forum brethren having his whole frog collection decimated due the same storm.

That prompted me to get a generator, an electric oil heater, and ensure the home we have since built has gas with a working *real fireplace*. I figure if I'm going to spend a lot of money on this hobby I might as well protect it all the best I can. Oh, and keep me and my family warm too.


----------



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Justin, we have considered one of those direct vent fireplaces. does it warm a decent sized amount of space?


----------



## Tadbit (Jul 16, 2010)

BethInAK said:


> Justin, we have considered one of those direct vent fireplaces. does it warm a decent sized amount of space?


We been in our new home for only 4 months and haven't had a real need for the fireplace yet, but I did fire it up on a mild day for a test run. It heated up the room so quickly I had to shut it off. I'm confident it will do a great job when I have real need for it.


----------

