# Fan construction using spare mistking nozzle



## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

So I had a spare mistking nozzle floating around that I had no intentions of using because the nozzle was clogged and I could not fix it. Then, as I was working on a fan setup similar to Pumilo's, I got the idea to use the nozzle parts instead of the sprinkler system parts to house the wires and to attach the fan casing. I used two elbows and a bulkhead and I epoxied the bottom elbow piece into the PVC tube housing the fan

Notably, the DYI fan tutorial that I used talked about snipping the wires to feed them through small openings as the plastic connector is too large. I did not do this. I took a safety pin and pushed the wires out of the plastic connector, threaded them through the mistking nozzle, and put them back in the plastic connector. Don't forget the order of the wires! Attached is the finished product. Epoxy is just drying now. 

Now is this the cheapest route? Not at all. Nozzles are like $14.95 or something but mine was broken so I used it instead of sprinkler parts. The best part is it will match my other nozzles and it has two thirds of the range of motion as the nozzle. Pretty good if you ask me. 

Also I used a 50mm fan with corners dremeled off. Very snug fit. And I use a louver for the front screen but I had to grind out some plastic to get it to fit in snugly.

The tutorial which sparked this whole thing is here: http://glasstropics.com/content/diy-air-circulation


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

VERY nice! Clean and more subtle!


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## bobrez (Sep 10, 2011)

That will work, looks sexy. Can you tell me what size pvc fitting fits 50mm fan, and also what is a louver. Thanks


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

bobrez said:


> That will work, looks sexy. Can you tell me what size pvc fitting fits 50mm fan, and also what is a louver. Thanks


Sure. The PVC fitting is the same as the tutorial: a 2.5" to 2" black reducer. When you go to Home Depot or Lowes, it's in the plumbing aisle. Make sure you get black though because white is ugly for tanks. But look hard because the black pipe section is considerably smaller than the white pipe section. 

A louver is found here: http://www.bestlouver.com/ld-series-louvers/

Basically, it's a circular screen vent. I got a dozen 2" black louvers from this site, with a standard collar. Notably, the louvers are too small for the 2" opening of the pipe and too big for the 2.5" opening of the pipe. So I ground down the inside of the 2" pipe opening to slide the louver in, and I just epoxied screen over the 2.5" side. If I had ordered 2.5" louvers, I would have done the same thing on the other side, but with modifications to the louver itself to account for the fact that it won't go in all the way, due to the presence of the fan. 

Any other questions are more than welcome.


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

Also, Pumilo used a 60mm fan but his tank is literally more than twice the size of mine, so I didn't feel I needed that level of CFM. I have a 50mm in here because the tutorial says 40mm and I bought one and barely felt any air movement.


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## Vagabond324 (Jan 13, 2011)

Real nice clean job, good use of expendable materials on hand. Adapt, improvise, overcome, Well done.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

dfrmav said:


> Also, Pumilo used a 60mm fan but his tank is literally more than twice the size of mine, so I didn't feel I needed that level of CFM. I have a 50mm in here because the tutorial says 40mm and I bought one and barely felt any air movement.


Remember that CFM is more important than size. My first 60mm fan only put out about 8 CFM but the ones I'm using now are exactly the same size and the same 12 volts but the new ones put out 21.5 CFM.

What are people's ideas on bronze sleeve bushing/bearing verses ball bearings? Normally I would be all over ball bearings, but for use in a wet viv, I opted to go with bronze bushings so they don't rust out. I'm also using a brushless fan thinking it may be a better choice because of the moisture.


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Remember that CFM is more important than size. My first 60mm fan only put out about 8 CFM but the ones I'm using now are exactly the same size and the same 12 volts but the new ones put out 21.5 CFM.
> 
> What are people's ideas on bronze sleeve bushing/bearing verses ball bearings? Normally I would be all over ball bearings, but for use in a wet viv, I opted to go with bronze bushings so they don't rust out. I'm also using a brushless fan thinking it may be a better choice because of the moisture.


yes but how thick is the fan that you're using? i've noticed a direct correlation between thickness and cfm...


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

now to convince marty to make just the articulated pieces available w/o misting nozzles!

james


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

dfrmav said:


> yes but how thick is the fan that you're using? i've noticed a direct correlation between thickness and cfm...


25mm but so was my original one, and they were both 12 v. There is a direct correlation bacause a thicker fan has wider blades but remember that the motor makes a difference too. I higher quality, higher amperage, and/or higher RPM motor will spin faster, producing higher flow.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

how did you connect the misting assembly to the fan? Silicone? weld on?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Silicone will NOT make a good enough bond. I'm not sure what dfrmav used, but Weld On 40 is the glue I use on mine.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

i tried silicone. it came off when i tried to screw it on. i used hot glue and it worked.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

weld on 40 can be bought at home depot or lowes ?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

J Teezy said:


> weld on 40 can be bought at home depot or lowes ?


Probably not. You need to go to a plastic/acrylic supply shop. Weld-On #40 - 2 part acrylic cement - Weld On 40 clear adhesive glue in Pints, Gallons


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

I used epoxy to make the connection.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

spending $30 bucks to make one connection ><. Has to be a cheaper solution


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Epoxy, like dfrmav posted and used. For me, it's not one connection. I ran off a batch of a dozen and I keep Weld On 40 around anyway.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

That looks really slick. 

It's so odd that nobody manufactures anything like this.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

Pumilo said:


> Epoxy, like dfrmav posted and used. For me, it's not one connection. I ran off a batch of a dozen and I keep Weld On 40 around anyway.


Yeah, for me its going to be just one fan, so i can't justify spending that much on weld on for just a tiny bit to make that connection. I just bought a gallon of Shields All and i'm not even going to come close to using it all so i've used my spend alot for little use card already on this build.

P.S. since you got so many fans, sell me one! =)


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

J Teezy said:


> Yeah, for me its going to be just one fan, so i can't justify spending that much on weld on for just a tiny bit to make that connection. I just bought a gallon of Shields All and i'm not even going to come close to using it all so i've used my spend alot for little use card already on this build.
> 
> P.S. since you got so many fans, sell me one! =)


Sorry, I still have more vivs than fans.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

Pumilo said:


> Sorry, I still have more vivs than fans.


 oh well was worth a shot


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## masterkush (Aug 17, 2011)

Very nice and clean.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Where are you guys getting your fans from? I picked up a couple waterproof ones off of ebay that I've been pretty happy with. Only about 14cfm but it has been great in my 44 pentagon so far.

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

If you watch the ebay video they run it completely submerged for quite a while. I did this with one of mine when I got it. Worked like a charm.

They're not terrible on price either. The $12.99 will be worth it if they last a while in close proximity to my misting nozzles.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I've been using this one. 2410ML-04W-B40 - DC Axial Fans - NMB Technologies Corporation I run them right through the misting cycles and they have been fine. You can find them on eBay for something like $5 or $6 each. I've been getting them in a 4 pack.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

carola1155 said:


> Where are you guys getting your fans from? I picked up a couple waterproof ones off of ebay that I've been pretty happy with. Only about 14cfm but it has been great in my 44 pentagon so far.
> 
> eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
> 
> ...


40 MM at 9000 RPM and only 14 CFM? Decible rating is almost 40 dbs which isn't that loud. I'm curious to see how they hold up for you.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> 40 MM at 9000 RPM and only 14 CFM? Decible rating is almost 40 dbs which isn't that loud. I'm curious to see how they hold up for you.


I cant really comment on the actual output because I have very little experience with it and no way to measure it... but if I have it running at 12 volts it definitely moves enough air keep the three glass panes on my 44 pentagon clean and the fern in the back corner of the tank waves a little bit in the wind. I'm still kinda playing around with what voltage im going to keep running it at when I put the frogs in.

As for the noise... its not bad at all. I can hear it from across the room if I'm listening for it... but it is by no means annoying or anything. Plus... turn on the tv and its gone.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

i actually pointed marty to this post and he told me what pieces it is to make the assembly minus the misting nozzle. A couple of the elbow pieces with the insert end, bulkhead, and a straight piece connector


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## azrickster (Jul 28, 2009)

Very Nice. 

I did something similar but rather then using the bulkhead end of a nozzle I used a WATTS quick connect that is threaded on one side. They are much cheaper and no glue required. Drill and tap the PVC and thread it in. They sell them cheap at the Depot, but they are white so I used the Krylon Plastic paint to paint them black. I used one on the PVC end and another through the glass. 

Here is what I am talking about . . .

WATTS Quick Connect


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

J Teezy said:


> i actually pointed marty to this post and he told me what pieces it is to make the assembly minus the misting nozzle. A couple of the elbow pieces with the insert end, bulkhead, and a straight piece connector


haha thanks. i'm glad he saw my adaptation of his product.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

goof901 said:


> i tried silicone. it came off when i tried to screw it on. i used hot glue and it worked.




just an fyi, I always had hot glue fail over time in heavily moist environments


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

went to home depot to get a reducer today and they didn't have it, they didn't have any pvc in black at all only flexible rubber type stuff in black. Hopefully i can find one at Lowes. Did you have to add more wires to your fan at all to lengthen it? if so what kind of wire did you use


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

J Teezy said:


> went to home depot to get a reducer today and they didn't have it, they didn't have any pvc in black at all only flexible rubber type stuff in black. Hopefully i can find one at Lowes. Did you have to add more wires to your fan at all to lengthen it? if so what kind of wire did you use


No wire lengthening. Are you sure you looked hard enough? Did you ask a sales rep? Try ordering online if lowes doesn't carry it either.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

yep i looked and the sales person even said they didn't have any pvc in black


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm pretty sure PVC is not even made in black. People see black pipe and assume it is PVC. It's not, it is ABS pipe.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

And adding to Doug's reply, PVC does not stick to ABS with PVC cement. You need something called transition cement.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

JPccusa said:


> And adding to Doug's reply, PVC does not stick to ABS with PVC cement. You need something called transition cement.


Or Weld On 40. Works great for gluing different types of plastics together. Like Acrylic to PVC or PVC to ABS, etc.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

is ABS safe to use as vents for a viv?


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Thats what a lot of us use... I've used it with no problems. 

ABS is used in medical devices and for instruments like clarinets (mouth pieces and all) so I would assume it should be fine.


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## TPinner (Aug 16, 2009)

I have been both to Home Depot and Lowes, asked at both, and neither in my area are carrying the black ABS pipe. I called local plumbing suppliers and they don't carry it either. I can find 3 to 2.5 ABS reducer on the web, but I cannot find 2.5 to 2 inch. 

I know you guys are masters at finding stuff on line. Anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks, Terry


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

The 'fish people' use a specific brand of spraypaint to paint pvc pipe spraybars etc black in their tank that is reef&freshwater safe. Of course I can't remember the name of it...krylon something or other

posted from my phone - sorry for any errors


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

You don't necessarily need the reducer... If you have a dremel (or a file and some patience) you can round off the corners of the fan so that it fits in a coupling.

I cut a coupling in half (so it wasnt as thick) and just siliconed the fan in place.









It honestly blows me away they don't have ABS at your local stores... What do they use for waste pipes in Texas?


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## nonliteral (Mar 26, 2012)

carola1155 said:


> It honestly blows me away they don't have ABS at your local stores... What do they use for waste pipes in Texas?


I've never found ABS in Dallas area Lowes/HDs either. 

Maybe it's a local code thing? We have a clay soil that shifts dramatically between seasons, so that may affect what's used; waste pipe in my neighborhood is cast iron or PVC, depending on age of construction.


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## nonliteral (Mar 26, 2012)

stevenhman said:


> The 'fish people' use a specific brand of spraypaint to paint pvc pipe spraybars etc black in their tank that is reef&freshwater safe. Of course I can't remember the name of it...krylon something or other


I've used both Krylon Fusion and Rust-o-leum for Plastic on PVC in reef applications with good results. The only down-side is that most of the plastic spray paints tend to have glossier finish than I'd prefer for plumbing...


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

TPinner said:


> I have been both to Home Depot and Lowes, asked at both, and neither in my area are carrying the black ABS pipe. I called local plumbing suppliers and they don't carry it either. I can find 3 to 2.5 ABS reducer on the web, but I cannot find 2.5 to 2 inch.
> 
> I know you guys are masters at finding stuff on line. Anyone point me in the right direction?
> 
> Thanks, Terry


its called 1 1/2 to 2 reducer but it measures 2 to 2 1/2


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

nonliteral said:


> I've never found ABS in Dallas area Lowes/HDs either.
> 
> Maybe it's a local code thing? We have a clay soil that shifts dramatically between seasons, so that may affect what's used; waste pipe in my neighborhood is cast iron or PVC, depending on age of construction.


It isnt used outside... it is used inside to run from the drains to the outside of the house... Like this:










That picture is of the wider stuff... the 1-1/2" stuff is usually used to vent to the roof


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Also... here is a couple links to find it:

http://www.amazon.com/Abs-dwv-Reducer-Coupling-abs001020600ha/dp/B000H5MTPM

Pipe Reducer or Increaser, 2 x 1 1/2 In - ABS Pipe Fittings - Fittings - 1WJE5 : Grainger Industrial Supply

**Disclaimer: I have no association with the above companies... haha

Also, goof901 was right. They are called 2" to 1-1/2" reducers because that is roughly the interior diameter of the pipes they join together. (The sizes on these things are just as backwards as the nominal and actual sizes of lumber)


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## TPinner (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks for the link to Grainger.

I didn't think to check with them but I will go by and see if they have it in stock. Also, thanks for clarifying the sizes. I picked up a regular PVC reducer 3 down 2 Inch and thought wow this takes up a lot of room. I couldn't understand how all the pictures the black ABS looked small. 

Terry


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

so i stopped in a home depot in another state today and no abs black fittings either. they told me they have.never carried abs. lowes inmy town was no luck either. the hunt continues


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

J Teezy said:


> so i stopped in a home depot in another state today and no abs black fittings either. they told me they have.never carried abs. lowes inmy town was no luck either. the hunt continues


I wonder if the stores have it, but the employees don't realize it's ABS. At my local Menard's it's called "flexible water pipe" which is funny because it's not exactly bendy, it just has a slight flex to it.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

they both carry black rubber stuff but nothing in a plastic. ill have to try menards


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

menards for the win. found it in 2 minutes. now to find a fan and power supply


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

ok so i got a 60mm fan today specs are

bearing: 2 ball bearing
speed: 5200 rpm
airflow: 21.03 cfm
voltage: 12v
3-pin connector

sticker on it says 0.35 amp

Looking for recommendations on a power supply or what i should look for in a power supply. Also about wiring the fan to the power supply. The fan has your typical red,black, and yellow wires. From what i've read the yellow wire is for a temperature probe and doesn't need to be used, I'm I correct on this?


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

J Teezy said:


> ok so i got a 60mm fan today specs are
> 
> bearing: 2 ball bearing
> speed: 5200 rpm
> ...


ball bearing will be much louder than a fan with sleeve bearings. as far as connecting everything, here's what I use:


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

i don't need / plan on using a controller. The fan is most likely going to be on a timer where it only kicks on every so often to clear the glass.

I'm guessing any 12v dc power would work? Just cut the wire and connect it to the fan wires?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

J Teezy said:


> I'm guessing any 12v dc power would work?


Only if you don't care if it bursts into flames and burns your house down. You have enough amperage to do the job or you're going to be in trouble.
Some info on selecting a proper power source for your fan/fans can be found here. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...internal-air-circulation-65g-peninsula-2.html


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

if the fan says .35 amps i'm assuming a 12v power supply at at least 1amp would be enough would it not?


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Yep. 1A - 350mA = plenty left over.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Yes, you could safely power 2 of those fans with a 1 amp, 12 volt power supply.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

well i got my housing all dremeled out and the fans casing trimmed down to size. I was powering the fan up with a 12v 1amp power supply to figure out which way the fan needed to be inserted to get the air blowing out the right end. In the process of doing this the fan somehow got fried. The first time i touched the wires of the fan to the power supply it powered up fine but i had the fan in backwards, so i took the fan out of the ABS housing, flipped it around and touched the wires together again to power it up and the fan spun for a quick second and stopped. I then smelled that electrical burn smell. Somehow the fan got fried. Needless to say the fan went in the trash. I'm trying to determine what happened to cause this before i buy another fan


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Some brands of fan cannot be run 'backwards' by switching the wires around - they just burn out like what happened to you.  Sorry. From what I've found most fans tend to blow 'out' on the side where you can see the wires going into the motor. By 'out' I mean as you are looking at that side (where the wires go in) the fan would be blowing at you.


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## J Teezy (Jan 25, 2012)

you are correct the blow out side was the side where the wires were, I figured the blowout side would be the side without the wires.

That's probably what happened as well. There wasn't a way to tell which wire should be hooked to which (at least to my knowledge) so i just touched the wires together and if it didn't work i switched them around. Guess it's off to buy a different fan and power supply to try this again.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

there should be 2-3 wires. red and black or red, black, and blue. the blue is a tachometer wire, the black is a neutral an the red is positive. 

in normal US wiring the small prong on the plug is positive (hot) an the large is negative (neutral)

james


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## moose35 (May 25, 2010)

james67 said:


> there should be 2-3 wires. red and black or red, black, and blue. the blue is a tachometer wire, the black is a neutral an the red is positive.
> 
> in normal US wiring the small prong on the plug is positive (hot) an the large is negative (neutral)
> 
> james


please don't give anymore electrical advice.......


moose


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

moose35 said:


> please don't give anymore electrical advice.......
> 
> 
> moose


.........please make constructive posts


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

moose35 said:


> please don't give anymore electrical advice.......
> 
> 
> moose


why is that? i mean yes i was drunk when i posted that, but it still looks fine to me. 

james


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## moose35 (May 25, 2010)

james67 said:


> why is that? i mean yes i was drunk when i posted that, but it still looks fine to me.
> 
> james


because you are mixing up things for line voltage with low voltage.



james67 said:


> there should be 2-3 wires. red and black or red, black, and blue. the blue is a tachometer wire, the black is a neutral an the red is positive.


the black wire on the fan is negative not neutral.


james67 said:


> in normal US wiring the small prong on the plug is positive (hot) an the large is negative (neutral)
> 
> james


correct.... but it seems that you are implying that the red and black wire should be wired to 120vac. 

i'm probably just being a douche but i don't wanna see anyone fry themselves or their home.

moose




the black wire on the fan in negative not neutral.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

I can understand where you're coming from moose. I think he was just making a correlation between the wires - as in which ones go with which. I think that the whole "When it's DC this wire is this" and "When it's AC this wire is that" may be confusing. I also would hope that a person reading a thread about wiring up things that can start a fire/shock/kill you would read the whole thread and see that an AC/DC converter is a must.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

i never meant to imply that a fan can be wired directly to 120V AC. 

i have written many many pages worth of information about this subject, and even made an instructional video, all of which is available on this site. if my response seemed lacking its not because i intended for people to wire things in an unsafe manor, rather its because i expect that people should have some previous knowledge on the topic (much of which i discussed in a thread linked by doug on the last page)

also i understand that the black wire is a negative in the context of DC, it was a mistake. we all make them.

james


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

let me fix the post in question.



james67 said:


> there should be 2-3 wires. red and black or red, black, and blue. the blue is a tachometer wire, the black is a *negative* and the red is positive.
> 
> in normal US wiring the small prong on the plug is positive (hot) an the large is *neutral*
> 
> ...


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

If u don't want to drill the glass, go a cheaper route or both u can use the exoterra mist nozzles too. They are 5$ for 2 and have a great, strong suction cup to attach anywhere in viv. All u need is a small gap for the wires to run out.


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## livid.irukandji (May 18, 2013)

Everyone is looking for ABS. I'm sure the black plastic they seek is HDPE, PE, or what they call poly. High density polyethylene, polyethylene, and polypropylene. All food grade and frog safe


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