# (fast deterioration) semi-listless brazilian cobalt tinc



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Sorry in advance for the long post, but I wanted to give pertinant information up front.

I have been growing out a group of d. tinctorious "brazilian cobalt" since october in a 36 gallon bowfront. I believe their sex is 1.2, though I have never seen the females wrestle and I am inexperienced with determining frog sex... but one frog definitely has larger front toe pads than the other two.

As of yesterday, all 3 were active and voracious. This morning, when I misted the tank, I saw a rather large smear (about 2 inches) of what must be blood on an anubias leaf. It was red and rinsed off just like semi-dried blood. I checked all 3 frogs and they seemed fine.

This afternoon, one of the females was "reclining" on her side in an unnatural position against a plant leaf. When I nudged her she took a large hop to the moss, and did not move again for about 5 minutes.

I quickly created a rubbermaid quarantine tank with paper towls, some large dried leaves, and a few pothos clippings. I captured the frog (easily, she barely moved) and put her in quarantine. It has now been 1/2 hour and she still hasn't moved. A few fruit flies were ignored.

Any ideas? I don't know for sure that it was blood, nor do I know if the "blood" and the current frog situation are related directly, indirectly, or not at all. The other two frogs are acting normally. My experience with other herps gives me a "gut feeling" that she won't make it through the night.

I'm open even to crazy guesses...

tia,
JOSH


----------



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

He's now flipped onto his back... I flipped him over... he flipped back... I flipped him upright again.

He seemes completely uncoordinated... listless on his belly... unable to support himself on legs.


JOSH


----------



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

sorry, double post


----------



## Moe (Feb 15, 2004)

Ive heard of calcium defiency that cause seizure like activity. Do you supplement? We cannot provide a variety of prey the frogs would normally encounter in the wild, thats why its very important to supplement. I have no idea what the red stuff is; try posting a pic.

Good luck with it.
M.N


----------



## Guest (May 30, 2004)

*crazy guess*

I'm no veterinarian, but is it possible that one of the frogs had a large gastrointestinal bleed (hence the blood)? I don't know what might cause this is a frog. In humans, it can be anything from ulcers, cancer, liver disease, and infectious agents.

Ken


----------



## Randy (Mar 18, 2004)

Not many people are selling w.c. Brazillian cobalts, so I assume that they are c.b. The lack of coordination and spastic movements remind me of calcium deficiency symptoms. However, the blood smear darn-near screams of parasitization. A vet visit is probably in order. As an added precaution, I'd also heavily mist your large vivarium just to help flush the feces and anything else from the sick frog down into the substrate/drain. Hope he pulls out of it and keep us updated!


----------



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Update:

unfortunately, the frog passed shortly after my last post. I was not surprised. My first dendrobate death so a little disheartening.

I did not take a picture of the blood smear... sorry.

The frogs are cb from Ssean Stewart.

I flushed the tank per your recommendation with about 4 gallons of misting (drained the sump and misted until it was full).

I do supplement with a 50/50 herpevite/repcal... also occasional paprika. I dust once or twice per week.

In retrospect, I had done one thing different in their care recently. About 5 days prior, I used fresh rain water collected during a thunderstorm to change some of the water from their tank (it is a false bottom with a 5.5 gallon sump). If some toxin was introduced, the other frogs seem unaffected.

Thank you for the suggestions. I am going to get a fecal on the two surviving tankmates. Do you think my supplementation schedule is adequate?

JOSH


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Sorry to hear that, it happens. I've lost a few myself and it always sucks. 

You could test some rain water if you want to rule that out. Near some large cities it may not be a good idea to use rain water. I would also dust a little more than twice a week. Say every other day or so. Good luck with the ones you have left.


----------



## Guest (Jun 1, 2004)

Josh, 

so sorry to hear about the loss. After a year of no frog casualties, I managed to have my brazilian yellowhead escape from its tank (still haven't found it after a week) and now I have a new river that is having seizures (I posted its story on this forum elsewhere) and is not doing well.

I definitely feel for you. I guess its something that every frogger deals with at sometimes or another.

Sigh...good luck with everything

Ken


----------



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Thank you for the supportive comments. I'm going to move forward with the "make more than you take" philosophy... hopefully the frogs will come around to this teaching soon.

JOSH


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

This is one of the reasons people say to start with the cheaper bolder frogs also. There can be unexpected loses, even if everything seems fine. Example I came home to a dead retic the other day, which had been fine and growing. It just happens..



JoshKaptur said:


> Thank you for the supportive comments. I'm going to move forward with the "make more than you take" philosophy... hopefully the frogs will come around to this teaching soon.
> 
> JOSH


----------



## JoshKaptur (Feb 17, 2004)

Ouch... my condolences. I know things "just happen"... but it always feels like there must be "something wrong" when it does, though in reality it is sometimes out of our control. This being my first "just happen" with frogs, I wanted to ensure the blunder was not my own.

Now back to second guessing if the remaining pair is 1.1 or 2.0 8) 

JOSH


----------

