# 2009 CITES Import Quotas for hobby frogs



## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

*CITES national export quotas for 2009 **(excluding quotas for Acipenseriformes)*

*All live imports date of 04/03/2009*



*Guyana*

*Allobates femoralis *500 
*Dendrobates leucomelas *500 
*Dendrobates tinctorius* 500 
*Epipedobates pictus * 500 
*Epipedobates trivittatus *500 

*Madagascar*
*Mantella aurantiaca *2500 
*Mantella baroni *5000 
*Mantella bernhardii *650 
*Mantella betsileo *5000 
*Mantella crocea *500 
*Mantella expectata *250 
*Mantella laevigata *2000 
*Mantella madagascariensis *500 
*Mantella milotympanum *0 
*Mantella nigricans *1000 
*Mantella pulchra *3000 
*Mantella viridis *250 
*Scaphiophryne gottlebei *1000 

*Suriname*
*Dendrobates tinctorius*_+ _1886 
*Epipedobates trivittatus* 1452


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## ashb (Dec 9, 2009)

Philsuma said:


> *CITES national export quotas for 2009 **(excluding quotas for Acipenseriformes)*
> 
> *All live imports date of 04/03/2009*
> 
> ...


Acipenseriformes? You can export paddlefish?


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Philsuma, would you direct me to the whole list, I would like to see any changes on red eyes and ornate uromastyx as well as other animals, thanks Bill


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Bill

Check out http://www.cites.org/common/quotas/2009/ExportQuotas2009.pdf 

If you go to the home page you can also get the 2010 quotas. 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Peru is conspicuously absent......


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Link to the 2010 Quotas: http://cites.org/common/quotas/2010/ExportQuotas2010.pdf

I'm with Phil - anyone know why Peru is not on the list at all?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Peru is listed with "mammalia". Nothing is under that though.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Peru was abducted by aliens?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

This was mentioned somewhere in the vastness that is DB. I vaguely recall something about Peru not filing or something similar.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Some countries do not set quotas.. for some it is because they have sufficient internal regulation that exterior policing isn't required and in some countries they do not feel they need to regulate the current trade as thier internal scientific committee has declared it doesn't need to occur.. 

Ed


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## MPepper (Feb 29, 2004)

Peru does not generally allow the export of wild collected CITES animals. This is probably the reason for no CITES export quotas : no collection permitted and therefore no quotas.

In most cases zoocriaderos wouldn't fall under quota restrictions because the animals are produced under the confines of captivity, and the production within and oversight of these facilities is regulated internally. Theoretically a zoocriadero permitted to work with CITES animals is permitted to export whatever it has been able to produce.

Peru publishes annually what is called a Calendario de Caza, and that is Peru's quotas set internally for non cites animals. 

Most Peruvian poison frogs are currently classified within Peru as "Casi Amenezada", making them increasingly difficult to acquire for zoocriadero's.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Thanks for clearing up Peru, Mark.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> Thanks for clearing up Peru, Mark.


Now, what is up with Panama..............

Also, There had to be more Mantellas exported. Protean alone was looking at an order or 6000 or more. I am sure several thousand more went to Florida importers. Never mind Europe and Asia.....


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

JeremyHuff said:


> Now, what is up with Panama..............
> 
> Also, There had to be more Mantellas exported. Protean alone was looking at an order or 6000 or more. I am sure several thousand more went to Florida importers. Never mind Europe and Asia.....


Panama is not so easy. A lot more corruption at the Govt levels.

The above list is 2009.

Protean's would be on 2010, right?


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

afterdark said:


> Link to the 2010 Quotas: http://cites.org/common/quotas/2010/ExportQuotas2010.pdf


The 2010 list has also been linked here.


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

I think it would be much more informative to see the import total to the US of CITES regulated animals. Surely there must be that data somewhere?


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

JeremyHuff said:


> I think it would be much more informative to see the import total to the US of CITES regulated animals. Surely there must be that data somewhere?


I did some searching and found this....

Gross import trade report into US
2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
D. spp. 398 25 0 0 0 6 0 580 0 0
D. amazonicus 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0
D. arboreus 0 0 0 14 0 0 0 0 0 0
D. auratus 2099 505 3834 4556 6283 8442 8184 7353 8730 0
D. azureus 95 32 46 20 0 0 24 26 0 0
D. duellmani 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 0 0
D. fantasticus 30 0 0 0 0 0 19 75 0 0
D. fulguritus 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 2 0 0
D. galactonotus 244 47 0 40 42 31 0 2 0 0
D. histrionicus 5 87 0 0 0 9 10 14 53 0
D. imitator 63 0 24 5 20 59 34 196 0 0
D. lamasi 48 16 8 0 0 0 44 25 5 0
D. leucomelas 90 30 5 0 0 290 70 28 287 0
D. minutus 0 0 0 0 0 14 0 0 0 0
D. mysteriosus 0 0 0 30 0 0 0 0 0 0
D. pumilio 3518 1117 28 10 1796 2399 4402 3084 3647 0
D. quinquevittatus 90 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 0 0
D. reticulatus 177 0 0 0 22 10 34 42 2 0
D. tinctorius 1301 1234 817 1191 44 48 28 27 52 0
D. vanzolinii 0 0 0 0 0 0 33 11 5 0
D. variabilis 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 242 0 0
D. ventrimaculat 154 0 24 25 47 86 155 124 16 0
D. vicentei 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0
D. viridis 0 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

According to this no Dendrobates came into the US in 2009.......

And for Mantellas
Gross import trade report
Taxon Term Unit Country 2007 2008 2009
Mantella aurantiaca live US 20 0 0
Mantella baroni live US 1886 2377 0
Mantella betsileo live US 1430 1839 0
Mantella crocea live US 314 405 0
Mantella expectata live US 357 170 0
Mantella laevigata live US 610 1074 0
Mantella madagascariensis US 155 117 0
Mantella milotympanum live US 366 373 0
Mantella nigricans live US 336 366 0
Mantella pulchra live US 931 1568 0
Mantella viridis live US 292 458 0

Of course the columns didn't stay aligned....Looks like someone brought 30 mysteriosus in a few years ago.


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## Protean (Dec 27, 2007)

I took on 2500 mantellas for the quotas I initially requested. I'll be taking around 1700 when all is said and done. I did request close to 6000 animals total, mantella and otherwise. 

As for 2010 from madagascar, that wont be released until the fall as they are on a different cycle for export. All quotas from there are issued for that year but exported until 6 months later into the next year.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

JeremyHuff said:


> I did some searching and found this....
> 
> Gross import trade report into US
> 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
> ...


 since when have there been legal US importations of arboreus ("14"), vicentei ("2"), mystis ("30")?

james


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Keep in mind that this is all imports into the USA and tissue samples from individual animals will list the same as a whole animal... This is supported by the timing of the publications of several papers 
such as http://www.jasonleebrown.org/jasonleebrown.org/PUBS/PDFs/Robertsetal.HerpJ_Dendrobates_2007.pdf

http://core.ecu.edu/biol/summersk/s...ematics and phylogeography of Dendrobates.pdf

http://www.jasonleebrown.org/jasonl...womey_and_Brown_2008_Excidobates_captivus.pdf

So this does not launder any animals that may be held by private individuals..


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

ok makes sense. thanks ed.

the presence of these on the list was....... kind of crazy seeming. (although i was interpreting it as whole live individuals)

the arboreus and vicentei ive heard rumors of attempts to get permits, but not of individuals actually (legally) coming in.

and the mystis, well we all know their status.

james


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## puckplaya32 (Jan 6, 2008)

I do know for a fact live arboreus and vincentei have been imported into the US with paperwork from EU in recent years


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

from EU.........

of course and would you like some captivus with that order? 

perhaps i should have said legally leaving the country.

james


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

james67 said:


> since when have there been legal US importations of arboreus ("14"), vicentei ("2"), mystis ("30")?


Interesting. You would think that a bunch of CB EU Mystis would have been pouring into the U.S.

Could it be that the price from EU breeders would be too high to make this profitable?

Maybe that means an alternative frog must be used to increase the profit margin?

Maybe a WC frog, from Panama that campesinos catch for pennies on the dollar?

Maybe a highly sought after morph of that same species that would "trump" all the others, both WC and CB, thus creating buzz and squeezing the market?

Does everyone see where this is going?


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## puckplaya32 (Jan 6, 2008)

I dont know if its a matter of profitability or if it was just simply before USFW was aware of the status of the species. And BTW some LEGAL captivus would be amazing


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Ed said:


> Keep in mind that this is all imports into the USA and tissue samples from individual animals will list the same as a whole animal... This is supported by the timing of the publications of several papers
> such as http://www.jasonleebrown.org/jasonleebrown.org/PUBS/PDFs/Robertsetal.HerpJ_Dendrobates_2007.pdf
> 
> http://core.ecu.edu/biol/summersk/s...ematics and phylogeography of Dendrobates.pdf
> ...


apparently the weren't actual frogs coming in (presumably)


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> Interesting. You would think that a bunch of CB EU Mystis would have been pouring into the U.S.


The problem with this species is that USF&W does not recognize the cb animals in the EU as being legal animals and as such have not issued import permits for them.. This is from a discussion I had with USF&W on this species. 

If people have questions as to whether or not certain species were imported with permits for commercial trade, they can always query USF&W. When I've questioned them about different issues, they were always pretty prompt in getting back to me (usually with in a couple of weeks to a e-mail..) 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ed,

What is the status of Casti's in the US / Hobby?

I know about the zoo thing and how numerous people are successfully breeding them, but are they ultimately illegal to own and subject to confiscation?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you ask USF&W they will tell you that they are all illegal.. for some reason known only to themselves after the initial attempt to recover them from private individuals, they haven't done anything about it.

I also know that the original importing institution (was required to) recovered virtually all of the animals held in institutions (including deceased animals if available, notarized documents stating what happened to the frogs if the body wasn't available) so outside of a few extra males held at a few institutions.......


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## angry gary (Dec 9, 2009)

okay, help the new guy out here. this might seem like a dumb question for you guys but i see on the list that almost 50,000 auratus were imported over 10 years. where the heck are they all? does every collector have 100?( just kidding on that point).
where did they all go? is\was there a high mortality rate?

thanks,
ag


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

angry gary said:


> okay, help the new guy out here. this might seem like a dumb question for you guys but i see on the list that almost 50,000 auratus were imported over 10 years. where the heck are they all? does every collector have 100?( just kidding on that point).
> where did they all go? is\was there a high mortality rate?
> 
> thanks,
> ag


This trend has been pretty much the same since the 1980s.. and virtually all of them are probably dead. 

Ed


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Ed said:


> Keep in mind that this is all imports into the USA and tissue samples from individual animals will list the same as a whole animal... This is supported by the timing of the publications of several papers
> such as http://www.jasonleebrown.org/jasonleebrown.org/PUBS/PDFs/Robertsetal.HerpJ_Dendrobates_2007.pdf




Ed,
I specified Live only, so tissue should not be in there.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Jeremy,

I didn't see that it was live animals only in your post. Just the total gross imports. 

I still suspect that it would be under a scientific research permit which would prohibit release to the pet trade. 

Ed


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