# My frogs are dieing to much please help?



## hyla23 (Apr 27, 2008)

I have received some new darts a couple weeks ago and at first I thought it was a cage issue so i fixed it and now this morning another frog was dead. I dont really understand all my adult frogs are thriving and doing great. My setup was some large plastic containers that i was told were to small and could have been stressing the frogs out so I moved all the babies in a 10 gallon with a false bottom and tons of live plants and dead leaves. The temps range from 72 - 80 depending on the time of day, I have a full spectrum light on them and feed them twice a day and I watch and make sure they all eat and everyone does get food. All the frogs are about the size of your pinkie nail, I'm not sure if im doing something wrong but I have read a lot and its not my first time with dart frogs so if anyone has any bright ideas please help because I'm concerned for the health and care that im giving and im paying money for these frogs and every time one dies its money out the door.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

what type are they? 

Ed


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## hyla23 (Apr 27, 2008)

tinc. cobalts, some weired species of cytrophyobates, and azures


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Contact a vet and get a necropsy done. If you are losing frogs from that many different types then 
1) something is wrong with the frogs 
2) you are doing something wrong with the husbandry
3) both of the above. 

How long are they out of the water and did you get them from a breeder or from a pet store or online retailer? 

Ed


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## hyla23 (Apr 27, 2008)

The frogs all about 3 months old and have access to a little pool of water but see the weird thing is that they smash fruit flies like its goin out of business.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Feeding well does not mean that the frogs are free of disease and/or parasites... 

Ed


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Like always, I say look at the husbandry first. Other disagree - but if the husbandry is the cause, your frogs will be dead by the time you get them tested & are able to medicate them. Your frogs are already stressed - if they were shipped to you, that increases their stress levels & any issue with husbandry or "bugs" will be more pronounced. 

Can you answer the following questions?

Are you dusting their food?

How many different species do you have in this one tank? From the sound of your email, it sounds as if they are all in the same enclosure?

What is your light cycle? 12 on 12 off? "Full spectrum" isn't as necessary for the frogs as it is for the plants. So, that is a moot point. 

In addition, for the frogs being 3 months old, they seem a bit small. Being the size of a pinkie nail at that age seems small for the tincs...but I do not know if that is average or not for the "weired species of cytrophyobates".

Also, you might try lowering the temperate a bit. 80 degrees can be a little high - especially in temporary containers which do not provide substantial mass (ex: a heat sink) to keep the enclosure cool, when the temperature of the air gets higher. Do you have standing water in the false bottom tank you currently have them in, or is that area empty. If it is empty - the tank & the occupants are much more likely to have larger temperature swings in the tank. 

The best example I can use to explain regarding a "heat sink", which most individuals have experienced: In a 2 level home, with both levels above ground - the lower floor has a cement floor & the upper level has a wood floor. If you have a heat increase or decrease the lower floor will take longer to heat up & cool down because of the "heat sink" which is a cement floor. The cement floor radiates hotter or cooler air until it reaches equilibrium with the surrounding temperature. 

Radiant heat/cold is why it takes longer to get a hot house cool, and a cold house warm. All the objects in the home have to be heated or cooled to change the temperature. 

Having a false bottom without any water will allow your tank to change temperatures quickly. Froglets are more sensitive than adults to abrupt changes in temperature.


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Hi-ya Hyla,
I have to also say that the size of the frogs mentioned seem very scary small. Like :shock: :shock: :shock: small. I don't think I have ever even seen a standard sized tinc (not oyapocs or other dwarves either really now I think of it) even morph out that small, much less be three months out and fit on a pinky nail. The smallest species of darts we work with here are not even called pinkynails, but thumbnails. May be that someone selling frogs is blowing smoke up your viv vent.
But, you need to answer a few of the questions asked here before any of us can go on trying to diagnose what may be the issue/issues.
Also, just curious who it was that told you to move your tiny froglets into something bigger? Possibly a member here? No need to answer on this post , but I would like to know via PM if possible. Just to confirm or quash my suspicions. :wink: :wink: 
Oh, and feeding twice a day is absolutely too often and can stress them, as I suspect may be an issue with the person who told you to move your frogs from smaller Q tubs...I do twice a week myself.

Rich


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

Can you give us an update?


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

? Beuller?


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## hyla23 (Apr 27, 2008)

Well the frog lets were doing were doing great for a while and now today I came home to feed them and i noticed my azures was choking and like have seizures and died right in front of me I don't know what to do. Anyone have any ideas? I don't want my other frog lets to die and how often do you think i should be feeding my frogs I feed everyday because the azures always look so skinny same with my adult azures and adult leuc those to always look skinny if i don't feed them. I could use a ton of help.


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

Rich Frye said:


> ? Beuller?


 Ha ha. Made me laugh.

At this point I think pictures of the tank as well as an accurate number of how many forgs you have in there is needed.

Also, the questions raised above should be answered to determine what the causes might be. Hard to figure out what it is at this point.


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

If you're not dusting with vitamins and calcium at least weekly, your frogs could be seizing from lack of calcium intake. Also, it could be poisoning from chemicals in the tank or contact with fertilizer nitrates. Furthermore, they need to be quarantined and have two or three fecals run by Dr. Frye at [email protected] before moving to the main tank, and it wouldn't hurt to have them tested for chytrid fungus----you can speak to John at Pisces Molecular about that process. Get back to us after you've done those things.


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## melissa68 (Feb 16, 2004)

I agree as well. It is very difficult to help him with his frogs if he isn't willing to help answer questions about husbandry. 



Mywebbedtoes said:


> Rich Frye said:
> 
> 
> > ? Beuller?
> ...


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