# Summersi vs. Imitator-who will win the fight???



## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

Hi guys,

I've been contemplating for a while between both of these and honestly might just get both. However, feel free to fight it out and voice your opinions on which one you prefer and why. 

Also, I'd love to see some summersi and imitator vivs so feel free to post those too! 

Thanks and let's get ready to ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmbleeee!!!


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

I've never kept summersi so i can't say what they are like but imitators are simply awesome! I can say hands down that imitators are my favorite frogs because they have great personalities, a wide range of patterns and colors and they are cheaper than summersi. Good luck with your decision 

Oh and I've read that summersi are more shy than imis


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

Hmm.... upton.... I have no idea where that is, nor have I heard of it before....
Western MA I'm guessing?
Anyway...
You could get some banded intermedius and get the best of both worlds....
just a suggestion.....

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/frog-classifieds/55645-female-intermedius-banded.html

Here's a classified with a pic you might want to check out. 
Whatever you get, I hope you'll be happy with it.
Are you leaning towards one of the two?


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## dartsami (Oct 30, 2006)

I got lost in Upton once, going for a run from Milford. Was only planning to go for 3 miles and ended up running a half marathon. Great story. I go to Milford all the time for work.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

Mapp-thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that some more though. I've been thinking about the banded imis, but for some reason keep going back to the summersi. I can't make up my mind. I've heard the personality of imis can't be beat and that is what keeps swinging my opinion back and forth.

Upton is near Milford...as our running friend here just explained. That is a long run, man...you must have been tired...i mean tiaaaaahd.


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm a fan of imitators because they have bold personalities (I can open the tank and stick my hands in without them running for cover), spectacular coloring, and a very pleasant call which won't disturb your apartment neighbors. 

As an above poster mentioned, get a group of bandeds and get the best of both worlds. I have a group of banded intermedius that look _exactly_ like summersi.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

That's two for the banded imis! Anybody going to support the summersi or are they going down? 

Do you guys have any pics of your banded imi vivs? I'd love to see them.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

If I had to choose...it would be imis all day long.


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## dartsami (Oct 30, 2006)

Upton is near Milford...as our running friend here just explained. That is a long run, man...you must have been tired...i mean tiaaaaahd.[/QUOTE]

Yep- It took me a few days to recover. 

My vote is for the imitators.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

Imis are owning this thread. Any pics of your vivs?


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

I've never owned summersi, but my intermedius are my favorite frogs, if that says anything.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm starting to think banded imis may be the winner, but could still be persuaded if there are any summersi defenders out there.

Attention all imi viv people...POST your tanks PLEASE!!


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

asturianu said:


> Imis are owning this thread. Any pics of your vivs?


Matt's Construction Journal - Page 2 - Dart Frog Forum on Husbandry and Habitat Information

Here are some pics of my new tarapoto viv. They're towards the bottom.
I need some more broms, and some more spagnum to cover the BG, nut it'll look better soon. Sorry for the crappy pics. It's a 20 tall and it'll be housing a pair of tarapoto soon.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

Thanks man! Nice looking tank and I appreciate you sharing! 

Keep them coming!


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

Thanks, and no problem.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

I'd lean towards imis myself. I've reduced my thumbnail collection to various morphs of Ranitomeya imitator.

Here's a couple pics of some Ranitomeya vivs:


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

Those are some great looking vivs!


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

Having both, it's a tough call. 

You will observe a lot more interesting breeding behaviors with the imitator since they feed their tadpoles eggs. Imitator are generally more bold, but summersi that are actively breeding are pretty bold too. 

Summersi are cool in the fact that they come from areas with slightly lower humidity than other thumbs and will spend time in the leaf litter. In fact, they will utilize all the floor space in a viv while imitators won't.

Why not start with a banded imitator tank and then get summersi later. Enjoy keeping my imitator in enclosures next to the frogs they imitate in the wild.


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## azure89 (Jan 5, 2009)

Here are some pics of my tanks when I first set them up I don't have current pics


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

The tanks look good! I think the poor summersi didn't stand a chance in this thread...anybody?

Keep the tanks coming...inspire me!


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

Aurotaenia said:


> Summersi are cool in the fact that they come from areas with slightly lower humidity than other thumbs and will spend time in the leaf litter. In fact, they will utilize all the floor space in a viv while imitators won't.


I've kept several different morphs of imitator and they use every inch of the viv.


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

michaelslenahan said:


> I've kept several different morphs of imitator and they use every inch of the viv.


Yes and so will the summersi, as will just about every frog we keep in captivity since we keep them in such small enclosures relative to their habitat. I wasn't clear in my statement and should have said leaf litter rather than floor space so here's some clarifications:

Summersi will make much better use of leaflitter than imitator. If you like the idea of a leaf litter dwelling frog, then check out summersi.

Like 99% of things with frogs, everything is relative and/or generic.


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

Aurotaenia said:


> Yes and so will the summersi, as will just about every frog we keep in captivity since we keep them in such small enclosures relative to their habitat.


Then how can it be said that one uses more than the other?



Aurotaenia said:


> Like 99% of things with frogs, everything is relative and/or generic.


Agreed. I haven't kept summersi and so haven't done comparisons. I disagreed with your statement that imitators won't use use all of the floor space/leaf litter. I see them in the leaf litter at least half of the time hunting microfauna.


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

michaelslenahan said:


> Then how can it be said that one uses more than the other?


I have 8 pairs of imitator and 4 pairs of summersi and have noticed that while all the frogs will forage in the leaf litter generally only the summersi will lay eggs in the litter. Additionally, summersi will regularly (though not exclusively) sleep in the leaf litter while I have noticed very few occassions of the imitator adults sleeping in the leaf litter.

Also, if you read the paper by Brown et al where they describe summersi they make note of the summersi being fairly terrestrial. This is opposed to imitator that will live a more arboreal lifestyle (I will try to find an imitator paper).

Granted everything is compacted in a terrarium, but natural behaviors are still visible.



> Agreed. I haven't kept summersi and so haven't done comparisons. I disagreed with your statement that imitators won't use use all of the floor space/leaf litter. I see them in the leaf litter at least half of the time hunting microfauna.


And I said in my second post that summersi will make much better use of the leaf litter. They are a more terrestrial frog, so if the OP is looking to make a vertical tank, then he should go with imitator and if he wants to make a horizontal tank then he should go with summersi. This is not to say that they wouldn't work vice versa, but just what will work better.


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## michaelslenahan (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm enjoying learning about summersi in this thread-the article you posted was excellent. 



Aurotaenia said:


> ...where they describe summersi they make note of the summersi being fairly terrestrial.


Fair enough. I only intended to clarify any distinguishing points between the two species, especially in captivity. It would be unfortunate if the OP wanted a frog that could be seen often in the leaf litter and therefore chose summersi over imitator--most people aren't building large enough vivs to keep imitators off the ground a majority of the time.



Aurotaenia said:


> ...generally only the summersi will lay eggs in the litter. Additionally, summersi will regularly (though not exclusively) sleep in the leaf litter...


For what it's worth, I have imitators that do both regularly.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

My summersi (I believe I have 2 pair) lay from 3" off bottom to the top of a vertical 40 breeder in film canisters in greatstuff, but I have yet to find eggs in leaf litter. 

I plan to split them once I catch 2 of them doing the deed again in a film canister.


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Aurotaenia said:


> I have 8 pairs of imitator and 4 pairs of summersi and have noticed that while all the frogs will forage in the leaf litter generally only the summersi will lay eggs in the litter. Additionally, summersi will regularly (though not exclusively) sleep in the leaf litter while I have noticed very few occassions of the imitator adults sleeping in the leaf litter.


My Varaderos lay in the leaf litter and sleep there frequently too. However I agree - these two are an exception to imitator norms.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

In general most imi morphs are more bold

the bandeds being an exception. I see mine, but not a 10th of the amount you would see a standard imi group or tarapoto imi group.

Summersi have always been shy in my tanks.

If someone is starting out in thumbs, you cant mess with a good thing. IMI's. Always have been the best choice, always will be the best choice.

And since they breed well in general they are affordable.

S


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

as far as terrestrial vs arboreal

I think all that is fine if you are building a huge tank that would approach a nature situation in territory sq ft ect.

In a 20-30 gal tank they use ALL the space, and the decision should be based more on "What you like" and Cost/Bold vs Shy considerations....

IMO


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

Just to let you know, yesterday I recieved my first frogs, a pair of tarapoto imis, and I can't tell you how happy I am with them. The're soo active, always bouncing around the tank. They're great.


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Mapp said:


> Just to let you know, yesterday I recieved my first frogs, a pair of tarapoto imis, and I can't tell you how happy I am with them. The're soo active, always bouncing around the tank. They're great.


That's great to hear. One word of caution - they are often more visible when they initially enter the tank. This can lessen for a while though, but breeding seems to embolden imitator a lot.


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

Thanks for the info, johnc.


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