# If you are anti-mixing...please DON'T click here.



## pzuzu (Jan 12, 2007)

Hello,

I'm wanting to read about people's GOOD and SUCCESSFUL experiences with mixing. Please post any combinations you've kept together successfully and WHY they worked. By successfully, of course I mean healthy and stress-free creatures. And not just frog combinations only either...for instance, I've heard from two people in the past that they successfully kept dendrobates and peacock geckos together. Someone once even told me they kept madascar roaches with their dart frogs as well.

Please don't post anti-mixing warnings...we've all read them. I'm looking for SUCCESSFUL mixing and explanations as to how it worked out and why. It seems almost like mixers are scared of anti-mixers in forums and never get to brag about their beautiful setups.

Here's a mix that I currently keep successfully (no dendrobates) and I'll even explain why.

I have a 55g with a pond taking up about a quarter of the length of the tank. The land area is planted. I have vines all over the place. I have an adult large green anole who spends his entire day up in the vines. At night he goes to sleep in the same corner. Then an adult golden geck comes out from his sleeping spot behind some wood in the land area. He spends the entire evening in the vines as well and never bothers the sleeping anole. I also have an adult chubby frog that comes out from the substrate at night to wander the land area. The reason why this setup works so well for me is because, the chubby frog is not arboreal, so he stays away from the top of the tank. The golden gecko never goes to the land except to sleep. At night he's in the vines and the two rarely cross paths. Neither is aggressive toward the other. And of course, the anole is diurnal, so while he's in charge of the tank, the other two are asleep. He'll sometimes go into the pond to tend to my snail population.

And when I say I keep a lot of vines...I'm not exagerating...there are tons of vines for them. I started the setup at first with just the anole and gecko. But after a year, I realized neither ever used the land area. That's when I got the frog. I figured something could use that area so I figured a frog would do the trick. I researched until I came across the chubby frog, who doesn't get too big and who is not arboreal and won't be climbing vines and getting in either of the other creatures' way.

I've had this setup for about a year and a half. Never have I seen any signs of aggression or stress. All three creatures are in extremely healthy conditions and their behaviors have not changed. They are all active and eat a lot.

So I'm looking to hear about other people's experiences with mixing, especially where dendrobates are involved.

Again, explanations would be appreciated and not just "I got lucky..."

Thanks!


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## lol_frogz (Jan 10, 2007)

Well, I'm having some fun on this subject over HERE :lol:


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## rattler_mt (Apr 15, 2005)

the only mixing ive really tried is clown tree frogs with surinam cobalts.......as to why it worked, the tree frogs only came out after the lights went off at which point the darts had retired to some nook to sleep. also being as the cobalts dont climb much the tree frogs daytime sleeping wasnt interupted very much as they usually slept in some broms that the cobalts ignored


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## SusannahJoy (Jul 3, 2006)

As long as you know enough about what you're doing and are able to provide appropriate habitats for each animal mixing is fine. lol_frogz, the reason that most people are having issues with what you are doing is that you don't have a tank appropriate for what you're doing (and you weren't feeding enough). Hopefully you're taking everyone's advice, and I wish you all the best! I'd say if you can mix and it works, more power to you! It's way neater to see multiple animals. Do you have any pics of your 55 gallon? I'd love to see it!


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

if i were you id want to here about the bad experiences just to know what you would be getting into if you wanted to start mixing pdf's
another thing i believe a 55g would be to small to mix
most people who have sucess mixing do so in a large enclosure


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Most people's bad experiences with mixing darts go with mixing darts with other darts... like I bring up every time this subject comes up, darts are like african cichlids, they are super aggressive with their own kind, and species in which they are in competition. If you've read my posts on mixing then I should be repeating myself here...

Biggest thing is getting a huge tank. I'd do a 75 at the smallest. Notice that all the big successful zoos tanks that mix PDFs have huge tanks? It's like that for a reason.

Small treefrogs such as H. leucophyllata and H. ebraccata would do well, but aviod larger TFs where there might be a threat of the frogs eating other frogs (even if they are active at different times). Also, smaller TFs are less likely to mess up the decor in more heavily planted tanks. 

Small lizards such as tropical anoles, day geckos (I prefer to stay within the same continent if possible, but they do work), and the parthogenic house geckos also work.

Snake wise, zoos have used various snakes in with PDFs... NAIB has used eyelash vipers, amazon basin tree boas, and a couple of vine snakes long term. Both the vine and the eyelash vipers were known to eat PDFs on occassion in the exhibits. The ETBs did great, but were hell on the decor... tho I'd honestly say they would be one of the better snake inhabitants with PDFs and I've seen pretty nice set ups with them up high, and the PDFs down low.

I'd avoid other terrestrial amphibians, PDFs have been know to beat up on them. Do NOT even consider horned frogs. Suriname crested forest toads would be interesting, but I don't know how well the PDFs would be willing to share.

Food is probably the biggest problem here, making sure everyone gets everything they need, without pissing off the neighbors. D. tinc group does not do well with crickets too big to eat running around... this is when you'd either hand feed or bowl feed the other occupants. P. terrbilis, P. bicolor, and the large epis would clean up extra crickets just fine, but would also run the risk of eating smaller occupants... I've seen bicolor eat baby geckos...

PDF wise, there is just a lot of aggression going on there, and the few species that you might see niche segregation... it takes a HUGE tank. Either stick to one species (preferable) or you'd have to do the overpopulation method... so many animals that territories are just not possible and while there is lots of aggression, this is spread around. In all honesty, this is not a particularly good method (lots of stress) but it's doable. You'd have to have a tank walk in sized to get the niche differentiation close to what would be seen in the wild where even species that occur in the same range would live well together. Also note that mixed species tanks, breeding is a rarity... and since frogs breed under conditions they might have a snowball's chance in hell of having some young survive (aka - not optimum but willing to try) that is a huge sign that something is wrong.

If you're going to try, avoid species of the same species group. This is not for hybridizing reasons, but rather aggression reasons... they are more likely to terrorize a frog closely related to them. Stick to species that do well in groups - better chance of having less aggression issues. Small phyllobates like vittatus are more likely to get along with something like auratus. Beware of mixing big frogs with small frogs... thumbnails will always lose in those situations... I wouldn't mix a dendrobates with a dendrobates.... and avoid mixing pumilio, E. tricolor, and E. anthonyi with anything... they are just too aggressive.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you read through this thread you will see some of the issues that have to be over come to make it successful. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ltispecies 

It does take a lot of thought and consideration to do it correctly. 

Unlike Corey's comments below, when I had to deal with densely populated multispecies dart frogs tanks; reproduction was not a problem.... Fertile eggs were produced on a continous basis. It all depends on how the enclosure is set up for the frogs and how much access there is for egg deposition sites. 

Ed


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## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

I have a 90 gal. tank where I keep 2 Auratus and one Tinc. (brazilian yellowhead). They are all sub-adults and get along well. They all eat great and there are no signs of stress. They are getting bigger everyday. At one point I also had an adult male Leuc in there and he would call all morning. Still no signs of stress on any of the animals. I guess my good luck with this setup is due to the fact that I watch my frogs very carefully. I only have 10 frogs all together so I watch them all every day. The first signs of stress I see is hiding and not coming out at feeding time. If I see this I immediately put the frog in its own enclosure and feed it lots of ff's. This is just my personal experience and should not be replicated unless you have a very large setup and a good amount of experience. Hope this helps................Sara


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Ed said:


> If you read through this thread you will see some of the issues that have to be over come to make it successful.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ltispecies
> 
> It does take a lot of thought and consideration to do it correctly.
> ...


Great thread ED. I just read the whole thing and it was very informative. It demonstrates that mixing is very possible, and that doing it successfully requires a lot of research and experience. At the same time i think it shows beginners why we should not mix instead of just saying "don't do it" without explanation.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Ed thanks for brining this thread back up. I am going to add some links to it so others can find it.


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## WarrenM (May 8, 2006)

I have a 110gal vivarium set up (48"lx18d"x24h"). I have the right side heavily planted and the left side pertty much open. There are different driftwood levels that the frogs can climb to.

I have 17 frogs and 2 anoles living peacefully in it. All are adults. The 8 galacts seem to have settled mainly on the open left side of the tank and the 8 leucs on the right heavily planted side of the tank. A pond and stream divide the two sides. The frogs cross over during the day with no issues among themselves. The anoles stay to the top of the tank and get the fruit flies that make it to the top and would have normally gotten out of the tank. 

The Leucs and Galacs are group frogs and don't seem to mind each other. They both also spend time all over the tank looking for food. Some of the frogs have set up their own territories (ledges, caves, coco huts, etc.) while other just seem to wander around.

Everyone comes out a suppertime to eat and mix. I have not seen any aggression between them.

I guess my set-up works because the size of the tank gives everyone their own space and there are enough hiding spaces for them to hide if they feel intimidated. You can go to the gallery to see pictures of it when it was set up last May. It has grown in quite a bit since them. I haven't posted new pics yet.


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## Cory (Jan 18, 2005)

My 400 Gallon has Bicolor and Vents in it and they both are happy and healthy. The vents use the entire upper portion of the tank and the bicolors stay down on the ground. There is very little interaction between the two. Just make sure the tank is big enough and the species are different enough to avoid problems. Heavy foliage is also key.


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