# Dart Frog Vivarium build



## PaysonHobbyist (Sep 19, 2019)

Hello,

I recently got an Exo Terra terrarium that is 36x18x18 and am planning to set it up with Dart Frogs. I am new to Dart Frogs and am currently researching the setup and am looking for help in a few areas. I am hoping to get some help. I do not want to rush it and want to get it right.

I plan to make a DIY custom background and have done a ton of research and feel fairly prepared to take this on. I am debating about a waterfall in a corner but am torn because I hear that they are difficult with dart frogs. I am still researching and working on that so I can make a decision, though.

I am wondering if I could get a few pieces of advice/help, however, in the following areas:

1. Cork seems to be fairly expensive at a lot of the places I have seen. I will pay what I need to but can anyone recommend a good place to buy quality cork for a good price?

2. Can anyone give me advice on having a waterfall in a terrarium this size vs. no waterfall and tell me your experience (both pros and cons please)?

3. I am thinking I want to put some net pots along the back wall to plant some plants. Can anyone tell me pros and cons of doing that and how best to attach them to the background?

4. I am debating if I should include a background on the sides of the terrarium as part of what I do. Can anyone tell me their opinion of doing this and the pros and cons there from what you have seen?

5. After the back wall is done and cured, etc., I will be looking to add substrate followed by plants. I have read that LECA balls are the way to go for the drainage layer. I can see that getting them from a gardening section is significantly cheaper than buying them from a pet supply store. Is there a difference in the product? I have also read to just put a vinyl window screen on top of them to separate them from the soil. Does this work well or is there a better option?

6. I have read recipes for the soil in the terrarium as well. Will this save money and be good for the terrarium or would it be better to just buy it already prepared from a pet supply place/somewhere else? Can anyone tell me a good place to get this if that is better?

7. Can anyone recommend good plants for this vivarium (specific names and quantities of each)? Also, where is a good place to get them?

8. What are the favorite types of dart frogs of people on here and how many would you recommend of each in a terrarium this size?

9. I am also thinking of putting Mourning Geckos in here with the dart frogs but am still looking into that, doing some research, and deciding what I want. Can anyone give advice on that and the pros and cons?

I know it looks like I am trying to set this up the cheapest way possible. Honestly, I am, but with one caveat. I also want it to be the best setup possible and do not want to give up quality to save the money. There are so many ways to do this that confuse me, which is why I am asking not only for the advice but the whys. Thank you in advance for any help and advice you can give.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Research frogs first, then decide on a species, then learn everything you can about that species, and how folks keep them (search the terms "imitator viv", for example) . By then, you'll be well on your way to knowing how to set up a viv for them.


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

Best advice ever!


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## PaysonHobbyist (Sep 19, 2019)

Thank you. That does seem like very good advice. I am actually looking into the Dendrobates Auratus Highland Bronze. That search turned up information again but still a lot of different ways to do things. That is why I was asking for personal experience and thoughts. I am having a hard time determining what way will be best for me. Any thoughts?

Thank you again for your help.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

OP, the questions you are asking have been asked and answered numerous times before on this board. SM mentioned the search bar and that is where the answers to all of your questions can be found. Do your research then come back and ask specific questions for clarification. I will say that since you say you are new to darts, avoid mixing darts with geckos until you have lots of experience with both. You won't find much support for mixing different types of dart frogs in the same viv on this board, either. Water features of any kind are difficult to get right even for veteran keepers of dart frogs and should be avoided in first (and probably 10th) builds. Get plenty of experience with basic builds that don't involve water features and then try it on a much later build if you still feel the need to.

Best of luck,

Mark


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## PaysonHobbyist (Sep 19, 2019)

Thank you again for the advice. That is good information to have and good thoughts.

When I read about people mixing Dart Frogs and Mourning Geckos I read that they are very easy to mix because the care requirements are similar and one lives on the ground and one in the plants. That is why the interest. I have kept other geckos for a long time and, while they are different than Mourning Geckos, there are a lot of similarities. That is the only reason I have been considering that. Mourning Geckos are the only type I would even consider mixing with Dart Frogs also because of the research I have done.

I would never mix different species of Dart Frogs as my research has told me a lot about that. My question in my original post was meant to ask what kind of dart frog is a favorite and how many should I put in the terrarium this size. I am hoping for multiple opinions and the why for each one as well as the number of them each that would go in the terrarium. I am leaning toward the Dendrobates Auratus Highland Bronze but am not sure what size group of these and mix of genders would be best in my terrarium (I am still doing research on that). I am also very open to other kinds, which is why I am asking for the types other posters like. I may change my mind based on what others say. No matter what is said, I will decide on one and will only have one type in there.

As for waterfalls, it isn't a need, it is a want. I love seeing them in the different vivariums. Having said that, if it is too hard or not good for the frogs, I will not put one in. The health of the animals is my number one priority.

I am new to caring for dart frogs but far from new to animal care and setting a lot of things up and taking very good care of them all. My family and I currently are keeping and caring for leopard geckos, red-eyed tree frogs, Vietnamese mossy frogs, dogs, red-eared sliders, African cichlids, and a reef tank. Not to mention that I am already breeding crickets, mealworms, a few types of isopods, and springtails and will be setting up a couple fruit fly cultures in time for them to successfully sustain the animals who need them when they are ready. All my animals are very well cared for and happy.

Due to the many months of research I have done and my history with other animals, I do feel very prepared and feel like I know a lot about setting up and building a vivarium. The part of my research and my comfort level that I still am looking for help on are the specific questions that I asked in my first post.

The reason for my post is because I am looking for clarification on the items I laid out and I have found with past experience that a forum such as this is the best way for me to get the information I am looking for. A search typically does not allow for discussion and many posts are not currently being discussed. If my history with other animals has taught me anything it is that all hobbies develop and progress throughout the years. I have also learned that if I can get the pros and cons and not just what people do, I learn a lot more and am very successful from the beginning. I want to get it right the first time and not test things out on these animals so want the specific information clarified that I do not feel I can find by my research. By getting the specific details (such as the ones I asked) and combining those with my research I feel I can typically make a decision on all the items and will be ready before I start setting anything up. After that, patience is extremely important to ensure that what I do is very high quality and exactly what I feel is best for the animals. If I am missing previous posts on this specific information that are current then I apologize for posting these again and please help me find them.

Thank you all again for your advice, responses, and help. I look forward to continuing my research and to taking care of these amazing animals and enjoying them when I am completely ready.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

PaysonHobbyist said:


> When I read about people mixing Dart Frogs and Mourning Geckos I read that they are very easy to mix because the care requirements are similar and one lives on the ground and one in the plants.


A couple things: just because they're easy to mix doesn't entail that a person should do it. In fact, most things that are easy shouldn't be done.

Second, this: "one lives on the ground and one in the plants" is simply false.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

PaysonHobbyist said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A couple thoughts from me (I am by no means an expert)
2: waterfall not necessary, likely not a great idea unless you have a lot of experience with vivariums and water and pumps.
4: I love the look of having the background stretch around the sides, when I do my next build I'm going to build it that way. The biggest con is that you lose some ability to see throughout the tank if you need to find a frog or anything else.
5: same thing, but the cheap version , use window screen to keep the substrate out

6. For the quantity you're going to need, premade substrate is probably the best way to go. Takes one more variable out of the first build.
9. Don't mix critters.


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## PaysonHobbyist (Sep 19, 2019)

Thank you for the input. You are absolutely correct. Just because they are easy to mix doesn't mean it should happen, which is why I am looking for advice and input of both the pros and cons of it. Please expand on that?

It is good information to have that one living in the plants and one on the ground is false. Doing my research, I have read that it is an opportunity to have multiple species in the same enclosure because of this and the fact that they are awake at different times mostly as well. In fact, some research I have done makes it sound like it is a beneficial relationship because the geckos will eat what is leftover from the frogs and help keep the vivarium more clean.

Again, this is why I am asking the questions I am asking. I am trying to figure out the pros and cons so I can make decisions of what will work for me.

Thank you again for your response and input.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

PaysonHobbyist said:


> the fact that they are awake at different times mostly as well.


This is also mostly false. MGs are not strongly nocturnal in captivity. Even if it were true, it wouldn't matter much, since having a feisty gecko (yes, they are!) interfering with normal sleep (when an animal most needs to feel secure) would be detrimental.

This is false, too:


PaysonHobbyist said:


> the geckos will eat what is leftover from the frogs and help keep the vivarium more clean.


If you add more animals, you have to feed more. It is that simple.

I won't give pros and cons of mixing, because there are no pros; there is simply no benefit to the frogs to share their enclosure.


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## PaysonHobbyist (Sep 19, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> This is also mostly false. MGs are not strongly nocturnal in captivity. Even if it were true, it wouldn't matter much, since having a feisty gecko (yes, they are!) interfering with normal sleep (when an animal most needs to feel secure) would be detrimental.
> 
> This is false, too:
> 
> ...


Awesome information. Thank you. That is exactly what I needed to know. Thank you again for your feedback and that all makes a lot of sense and adds a perspective I hadn't read about or thought about myself.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

fishingguy12345 said:


> A couple thoughts from me (I am by no means an expert)
> 2: waterfall not necessary, likely not a great idea unless you have a lot of experience with vivariums and water and pumps.
> 4: I love the look of having the background stretch around the sides, when I do my next build I'm going to build it that way. The biggest con is that you lose some ability to see throughout the tank if you need to find a frog or anything else.
> 5: same thing, but the cheap version , use window screen to keep the substrate out
> ...


Good comments! In my experience, even in tanks that I don't have the sides covered (most of mine do), I don't keep up with the cleaning well enough to see through the sides most of the time. I am lucky to be able to keep up with cleaning the fronts of most of my tanks 

Mark


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## PaysonHobbyist (Sep 19, 2019)

Yes very good thoughts and very helpful. Thank you so much for the feedback. and the help.


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## Hoppy22 (Aug 11, 2021)

I like the look of a Background on the back and part of the sides you still maintain some visibility from the side but gain more surface area to plant on


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