# How long do you keep your cultures?



## georgiekittie (Jan 27, 2009)

I just got my first frogs and am getting into the point in my fruit fly culturing where I need to start throwing away my cultures. I've read several different things on how long to keep cultures. My book insists that I throw them away after 28 days to keep mite problems down, and another thread on this forum also suggested 3-4 weeks. However, I've read separate threads where people keep their cultures until they stop producing.

How long do you keep your fruit fly cultures? Pros and cons? Experience? Advice?

Thanks!


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

It would probably depend on personal experience, i had no trouble with mites so i keep mine for like 4-5 weeks or until the media looks like it's drying up (other cultures are already underway by then) then just put them outside with the top off for about a week. clean them and reuse


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you are going to keep them longer than 28 days then you should figure out some method of keeping the cultures that are older than 28 days seperate from the newer cultures. If you keep your cultures until they stop producing then sooner or later you will get a mite infestation and a it can take out the new cultures as well as the older ones requiring you to start over. This can mean you won't have any cultures to feed the frogs until the new ones get going. 

I keep mine for longer but depending on thier age, they are in three different areas of the house. 

Ed


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

I keep mine untill the fly`s are gone.
I haven`t had mite`s yet, but I still keep a close eye on them.

John


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

I date all my cultures so I know what how old they are and generally I get them to last 6-8 weeks. I keep the cultures I feed out of under one of my large vivs and keep all my new cultures under a different viv so that I don't mix them up.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I do what Ed does. I keep my newer cultures away from my older cultures. I just finally cleaned out a cup that had been started 10/28/08 that had been producing flies since I started it. The flies were quite small at the end but that was actually just what I needed to feed some new froglets. Of course the cultures don't usually last that long but this one did and it was not stinky or it had past the point of rancid and just didn't have a smell anymore.


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## CHuempfner (Apr 27, 2008)

Depending on how much media I use, I would say that my average culture lasts between 6 and 8 weeks. Knock on wood, I have had no mite issues yet. I make new cultures every 7-10 days and those cultures stay in a drawer. As my cultures start to age and are drying out, I pull them from the drawer and use the smaller flies to feed my froglets/pums. 

If they get too rancid or too many dead flies are coming out when I am trying to dust live flies, then I pull then and freeze it for 15 minutes to kill anything alive. I just clean and reuse the containers.

Crystal


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## lizardstowe (Sep 6, 2005)

One Month tops! I have it worked out so that most of my cultures burnout by then but even the ones that are still producing get discarded and washed. I feel like you're just asking for an infestation if you keep them longer. I would rather toss out a few skinny flies than risk having to wash out 15 or 20 brand new cultures because mites found there way over from some old ones. I also keep my cultures sitting in a shallow tray of Borax powder. I hate mites! I was in Petco yesterday getting some feeders for my Savannah, I noticed that they were selling Fruit Fly cultures. I didn't even want to get close to them but curiosity got the best of me, standing back I focused on the white lid and watched for just a minute. Sure enough, mites were crawling all over those containers!! I was a good three or so feet away but still felt like they were all over me.


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I use mine until they become disguisting and stop producing, which is usually at the same time. I just started using Josh's Frogs fritfly media (which is great) instead of the homemade stuff which smells better, is more productive, and lasts longer, so I'm kind of reworking my routine.

I freeze them before emptying them as well, and I also let them sit with a little 3% hydrogen peroxide after cleaning since I reuse the cups.


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## iridebmx (Oct 29, 2008)

i do 1 month with all but 1 culture so i still have something to feed from untill they start producing. i only use vinager as a mold inhibitor and it only holds the mold off for a couple weeks and around a month is when my wife starts whining so a month tops for me!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Less than a month to guard against mite infestation levels.


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## cyberbrat (Jul 14, 2008)

lizardstowe said:


> One Month tops! I have it worked out so that most of my cultures burnout by then but even the ones that are still producing get discarded and washed. I feel like you're just asking for an infestation if you keep them longer. I would rather toss out a few skinny flies than risk having to wash out 15 or 20 brand new cultures because mites found there way over from some old ones. I also keep my cultures sitting in a shallow tray of Borax powder. I hate mites! I was in Petco yesterday getting some feeders for my Savannah, I noticed that they were selling Fruit Fly cultures. I didn't even want to get close to them but curiosity got the best of me, standing back I focused on the white lid and watched for just a minute. Sure enough, mites were crawling all over those containers!! I was a good three or so feet away but still felt like they were all over me.


I got such a laugh out of "felt like they were all over me". I keep for 28 days because I want to reduce mite outbreak risk. They also start to get stinky and that grosses me out. : (


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Ever get "itchy" after harvesting a FF culture that is kinda old?.....like over a month old.

Sometimes I feel like I have to take a shower right after feeding the frogs.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

no mite issues yet, keep for about 6 weeks usually. 
I know the itchy feeling, though, hate being around mites/nasty bugs that could get onto my plants/cultures. I looked at a buddies greenhouse last year, noticed spidermite webs right away, backed out slowly and took all my clothes off outside before I went back into my house.


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## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Borax is a great idea!!


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i only keep them 3-4 weeks, otherwise i start to see lots of mites


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Ed said:


> If you are going to keep them longer than 28 days then you should figure out some method of keeping the cultures that are older than 28 days seperate from the newer cultures. If you keep your cultures until they stop producing then sooner or later you will get a mite infestation and a it can take out the new cultures as well as the older ones requiring you to start over. This can mean you won't have any cultures to feed the frogs until the new ones get going.
> 
> I keep mine for longer but depending on thier age, they are in three different areas of the house.
> 
> Ed


Oddly, when I was using Black Jungle media to make cultures I would always find mites around 1 month into the boom of the culture. However, after switching to media from Josh's Frogs I stopped seeing any mites. As a test I recently got a few more BJ cultures and as I expected found mites after about 1 month or so. And here is the clincher, despite being directly next to the BJ media derived cultures with mites, the cultures made with Josh's media were mite free (both cultures were also started on the same date). I assume that Josh must use some ingredient to prevent mites since I've never found one of the cultures invested (although I've had some last over 2 months). Anyone have a better conjecture?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

stemcellular said:


> Oddly, when I was using Black Jungle media to make cultures I would always find mites around 1 month into the boom of the culture. However, after switching to media from Josh's Frogs I stopped seeing any mites. As a test I recently got a few more BJ cultures and as I expected found mites after about 1 month or so. And here is the clincher, despite being directly next to the BJ media derived cultures with mites, the cultures made with Josh's media were mite free (both cultures were also started on the same date). I assume that Josh must use some ingredient to prevent mites since I've never found one of the cultures invested (although I've had some last over 2 months). Anyone have a better conjecture?


Carefull....vendor feedback is rearing it's ugly head and I should know!

I seriously doubt there is anyone using any sort of mite preventative in their media mixtures.

I think it's just a case of contaminated stock - possibly the Potatoe bud supply ect. Grain mites / eggs are in a whole lot of places....they are in your pantry right now.

I'm looking into super heating my dry culture mixes - not that I have a big mite problem, just to see what can be done preventatively.

I remember a BIG fly vendor telling an audience at a large "frog show" a few years ago that HIS company had no mites and NEVER had them due to stringent procedures yada yada....yeah right


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> .
> 
> I'm looking into super heating my dry culture mixes - not that I have a big mite problem, just to see what can be done preventatively.


How do you plan on keeping them from getting reinfected? Any stored cereal product (dog food, baby cereal, flour, etc will just supply the new colonizers to the great new frontier... 

I gave up trying to presterilize and just nuke the media now when I make new cultures.. which reminds me that I need to make more tomorrow.... 

I wouldn't say that is a conclusive example in the "test" done above.... One of the confounding factors is that the conditions in one culture may have been more to the liking of the mites (for example moisture levels..). 

Ed


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Yeah......it's all just "finger in the dike" (no jokes please) type stuff when you are dealing with the grain devils.

I gave some brief consideration to freezing and vacu-sealing but as you say, it's really pointless and just a matter of time.

I think the best practice is discard the cultures after 30 days...easy to remember too if you are new. 

Ed, Do you think that the 30 day discard and microwaving the media are the two most reasonable procedures?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Philsuma said:


> I think the best practice is discard the cultures after 30 days...easy to remember too if you are new.
> 
> Ed, Do you think that the 30 day discard and microwaving the media are the two most reasonable procedures?


By keeping my cultures in a couple of places and nuking (I think I'm showing my age by using nuking...) the new ones I have not had an outbreak in a nunber of years now. (I'll probably find one tomorrow now that I've said that..) Its an easy practice particularly if you date the cultures for ease of tracking (blue painter's tape.. its easy to remove and allows for easy tracking) and make sure to move them when you make new cultures. 

I do keep my for more tha 30 days but the older cultures are in a seperate room which allows me to get the last dregs out of them (and is handy for hydei cultures). It also allows for me to let them dry out so I can pop the old media out and clean the containers more easily. 

If you put a little effort into it, you can keep them mite free and if you are rotating them it helps to keep (at least it does for me) to make new cultures on a schedule.


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## lizardstowe (Sep 6, 2005)

Just a note on heat. Over the past three years I have been working on a media. I was trying to develop something that was holistic and didn't contain any of the chemicals that are used to control mold or mites (not that the commercial stuff has benzyl benzoate in it). It took a long time to get the ratios and consistency right but now it's working great. It is a "cooked" media and in the last three years I have only had one mite problem (zero mold), I think that was due to invading wild insects. I bring this stuff to a boil briefly before pouring into culture cups to cool. I use a number of different grains and sugars, all coming from bulk bins. I'm not sure but has anyone tried to mix the dry stuff with too much water, and cook it down to the right consistency? 

Matt


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

My cultures are basically potato flakes, powdered sugar, brewer's yeast, banana and spirulina made with hot water and then microwaved until steaming (about 2 minutes on high per four cultures). It only takes a few minutes to make a new batch and then the time for them to cool down (put the ventilated lid and let them sit). I don't use any mold inhibitors except baker's yeast or other chemicals in the media. 

I have had no mold issues for many years using this method. 

Ed


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## cyberbrat (Jul 14, 2008)

Philsuma said:


> Ever get "itchy" after harvesting a FF culture that is kinda old?.....like over a month old.
> 
> Sometimes I feel like I have to take a shower right after feeding the frogs.


No doubt...FFs are the 'ugly' side of PDFs!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

cyberbrat said:


> No doubt...FFs are the 'ugly' side of PDFs!


Oh my no....you misunderstood.

The Itch is from *mites*....not fruit flies!

Almost every other day, I find a stray fruit fly in my orange juice cup in the morning. Most times, I try to drink around it, but there are times when I just drink it down.

Fruit flies are the WONDERFUL aspect of dart frogs and that's partly what lead me to pursue them over geckos.

Crickets....now there is a gross, bothersome feeder,


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

i keep my cultures for about 6 weeks. and i make new cultures with the same adult flys long befor my cultrues can go bad..i find that if i make a new culture from oner wit the same adult flys bi weekly they last longer and produce more. just a observation im still new but it works for me.


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## Hibiscusmile (Jul 29, 2008)

I keep mine until they are done, I use the old ones for really tiny flies when I need them, don't really have any problems with them that worries me, so happy about that.


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## Newt1 (Feb 25, 2007)

Ed said:


> My cultures are basically potato flakes, powdered sugar, brewer's yeast, banana and spirulina made with hot water and then microwaved until steaming (about 2 minutes on high per four cultures). It only takes a few minutes to make a new batch and then the time for them to cool down (put the ventilated lid and let them sit). I don't use any mold inhibitors except baker's yeast or other chemicals in the media.
> 
> I have had no mold issues for many years using this method.
> 
> Ed


Would you give me your media recipe

Newt


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Newt1 said:


> Would you give me your media recipe
> 
> Newt


 
He just did....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

1 cup of powdered sugar 
8 cups potato flakes 
1/2 - 1 cup of brewers yeast. 

when making up a batch.. one overripe banana per 2 cups of dry media (throughly mashed, and one teaspoon of spirulina per 2 cups of dry media). 
Add the same amount of hot water (can even be boiling) as the amount of dry media (1 cup media = 1 cup water) miix throughly. Place between 1/3 and 1/2 cup of media into the large culture containers and microwave uncovered on high for about 2 minutes. If the media looks dry when it comes out of the microwave you can add about 1/2 teaspoon to 1 teaspoon of water to the media to rewet. Place the lid on the top and let cool (I use the ventilated lids). 

The microwaving isn't necessary but I have found that I don't get mold or mites if I microwave it and keep the older cultures seperate from the newer cultures.

Some people mix this media with the Carolina Biological Supply media on a 1:1 basis. 
This media works equally well for me for hydei and melaogaster. 

Ed


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## Jerseylotte (Apr 19, 2008)

I'm not sure the main reason for discarding cultures really comes down to mites, for me quality of the food is vastly more important.

Old/dwarfed flies, aged cultures, deteriorating media, buildup of pupal cases etc are all big issues.

Mold and pupal case (or if your cultures are really overdone, dead flies) buildup prevents access to the media itself and leads to empty flies. 

No point feeding your PDF's on a pair of wings and eyes... 

P.S: Oldest cultures found here will be 4 weeks max. I make 20 cultures per week, 10 blades biological commercial mix and 10 a fruit/oat mix. 5 of each batch hydei and 5 melanogaster


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## dannyces (Apr 1, 2008)

hello everyone
sorry if this is off topic but it seems like everyone makes alot of flies.... is this just because you all got alot of frogs????? sorry again if this is off topic
DAnny


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

dannyces said:


> hello everyone
> sorry if this is off topic but it seems like everyone makes alot of flies.... is this just because you all got alot of frogs????? sorry again if this is off topic
> DAnny



Its not off topic. Typically people set up excess so they can make sure they have enough flies to feed the frogs. 
If you are doing your own cultures and are able to reuse your culture containers, then setting up the cultures ends up being really inexpensive (outside of time). I haven't figured out the actual cost per culture but I suspect counting wood wool (excelsior) its less than 20 cents/culture. 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Jerseylotte said:


> I'm not sure the main reason for discarding cultures really comes down to mites, for me quality of the food is vastly more important.
> 
> Old/dwarfed flies, aged cultures, deteriorating media, buildup of pupal cases etc are all big issues.
> 
> ...


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## Jerseylotte (Apr 19, 2008)

Ed said:


> Jerseylotte said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure the main reason for discarding cultures really comes down to mites, for me quality of the food is vastly more important.
> ...


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