# Froglet with SLS?



## Adamrl018

Hey guys, Im really worried about one of my vent tads that is starting to come out of the water. He is not using his front limbs...
How can i tell if he has SLS. When do i need to decide to put him down? 

His/Her sibling has not morphed their front limbs yet and is still in the water.
Legs seem to be fully developed....

I have been keeping them in spring water with a couple of drops of blackwater extract and feeding them a couple of pellets of tad bites a week.

Do i need to post pics?

Im really down about this, and Im not sure what to do and could use some advise 

Thanks..


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## slipperheads

Fully developed and not using front legs? Sounds like SLS to me. What frogs are these? I suggest a pinch or two of Repashy Superpig per week in the tad cup when you're raising these next time. People while chime in though with specific supplements depending on the species.


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## Woodsman

Hi Adam,

I wouldn't try to make any definitive conclusions about sls until the froglet has fully morphed-out. It could just take him a few day to get going. If he can't get around on land and can't eat any food, then the diagnosis will be clearer.

Good luck, Richard.


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## Ed

§lipperhead said:


> Fully developed and not using front legs? Sounds like SLS to me. What frogs are these? I suggest a pinch or two of Repashy Superpig per week in the tad cup when you're raising these next time. People while chime in though with specific supplements depending on the species.


A lot of SLS problems actually start before the tadpole even hatches. If the impact occurs in the egg, you can't correct it post hatching. It is more important to make sure the adults are properly supplemented than to try and correct it afterwards.


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## Adamrl018

I dust my ffs with repcal calcium with vid.d and herptivite every feeding


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## Ed

Adamrl018 said:


> I dust my ffs with repcal calcium with vid.d and herptivite every feeding


I would suggest adding a supplement that contains vitamin A as retinyl palmitate to your rotation as there is evidence that supplements that supply only beta carotene are insufficient in providing vitamin A to the frogs. 
This has been discussed a few times on the forum. 

Ed


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## randommind

I would suggest upgrading to a higher quality supplement. I have heard a couple of different froggers claim that their deficiency issues have been fixed via a change in supps that are geared more towards our frogs.


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## Adamrl018

kk so vitamin A.. got it


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## Pumilo

And switch to, or at add into rotation, Repashy Calcium Plus (formerly Repashy Calcium Plus ICB).


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## tim13

Pumilo said:


> And switch to, or at add into rotation, Repashy Calcium Plus (formerly Repashy Calcium Plus ICB).


This stuff is pretty good, but it does NOT taste like it smells.


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## Pumilo

tim13 said:


> This stuff is pretty good, but it does NOT taste like it smells.


Hey Tim, Uhhh...you're supposed to snort it either!


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## Pumilo

Pics would be helpful, too. Sometimes you can tell at a glance.


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## tim13

Pumilo said:


> Hey Tim, Uhhh...you're supposed to snort it either!


I have this horrible habit of tasting everything.


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## Adamrl018

Well, the first tad with the SLS died 

I was looking at his/her sibling and it doesnt look like its growing any front limbs at all... and its hind legs look fully developed...is this another symptom of SLS?


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## JL-Exotics

Adamrl018 said:


> Well, the first tad with the SLS died
> 
> I was looking at his/her sibling and it doesnt look like its growing any front limbs at all... and its hind legs look fully developed...is this another symptom of SLS?


Sorry, but yes. In some cases the frog can morph with no front legs at all.


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## Adamrl018

so im looking at this

Repashy SuperMin (4 oz)

dusting ffs in just this would be giving my frogs sufficient vitamins so this will not happen again?


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## DartAsylum

i am using repashy calcium plus which is supposed to be an all in supplement.

Repashy Calcium Plus ICB (4 oz)


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## james67

not to get off topic, but ed was suggesting finding a supp with vit A in the form of retinyl palmitate instead of beta carotine. as discussed in many other threads there is evidence to suggest that the beta carotine is not absorbed and processed as efficiently as retiol or retinyl palmitate. both can be found online with a little searching.

these will help: search these #s exactly as they appear
79-81-2
68-26-8

dartasylum: as discussed many times, repashy ICB should NOT be used as the sole supplement for your animals. there is insufficient evidence to suggest it can safely be used as such. dont get me wrong i love the stuff, but i wouldnt use it alone.

james


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## Ed

I* would not say that we know enough* that we can say that Repashy ICB can't be used as the sole supplement. All we have is data on the older supplements where they were deficient on one or more ingredients and go forward from that point. 

It is unlikely that we are going to see a neutral third party analyze the supplements and publish the results with a name of the supplement attached as lawsuits were promised if it was repeated. 

Ed


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## Adamrl018

thanks james and ed

no offence to ed hes a smart guy but sometimes i dont understand because its too technical :]

i understood what james said


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## JasonE

So, um... Is there a multivitamin powder out there that uses the correct type/amount of vitamin A? Or do I have to play mad scientist with different powdered supplements?


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## Ed

JasonE said:


> So, um... Is there a multivitamin powder out there that uses the correct type/amount of vitamin A? Or do I have to play mad scientist with different powdered supplements?


The problem is that there was a study done on a number of older supplements that showed there were large variations in what was in the supplement compared to the label. This eventually resulted in the recommendation to use more than one supplement as this should cancel out the variations. The study was done a number of years ago and several new supplements have since become available (such as the Repashy line of products) so we don't have analysis on those supplements by unbiased testers. All we can go by with those is anecdotal reports and compare them. 

As it stands now, you want to look at the label and see that it 
1) contains retinyl palmitate as the major source of vitamin A and does not use only beta carotene as the source of vitamin A. 
2) the ratio of retinyl palmitate to D3 to E is 10 to 1 to 0.1 
3) contains a ratio of calcium to phosphorus that is between 1:1 to 2:1. 

If possible you want to use a supplement that contains a number of carotenoids besides beta carotene and if you are working with frogs that reds, or oranges, astaxanthin and canthaxanthin. 

The best way to deal with the issues with under and over supplementation (as there can be variations between individual batches of a supplement) is to rotate more than one supplement. 
As an example, I personally use Repashy ICB, Rep-cal, Dendrocare and herptivite in a rotation. If I see issues with egg development I also add a human grade dry vitamin A supplement into the rotation at a frequency of once to twice a month. 

Does that cover it?


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## JasonE

Ed said:


> Does that cover it?


Thank you. Yes it does. I'll keep my calcium powder and switch up my vitamin powders.


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## Adamrl018

awesome! thank you very much ed!


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## ktwilliams_28

JasonE said:


> Thank you. Yes it does. I'll keep my calcium powder and switch up my vitamin powders.


Is it ok to keep your calcium powder for more than six months? Does it not degrade as the vit mixes do?


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## Ed

If it is only calcium carbonate with no other added vitamins such as D3, then it is stable and can be kept for more than 6 months. If it contains D3 or any other vitamins, then it should be discarded around 6 months. 

Ed


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## supe22

Ed, 
I realize I am a couple days behind on this thread but my work schedule keeps me tied up for days at a time. Anyway, thanks for spelling out your supplement schedule. I found that very helpful. Would you recommend using the same supplements on a rotating schedule if it is being dusted on crickets for tree frogs? Also, what is your feeling on gut load products such as Flukers High Calcium Cricket Diet used in conjunction with the dusting? I am just feeding some tree frogs that take their sweet time getting up and eating at night so I am concerned about the dusted suppliments not always making it to them by the time they catch their food. Thank you in advance for your input.


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## Ed

supe22 said:


> Ed,
> I realize I am a couple days behind on this thread but my work schedule keeps me tied up for days at a time. Anyway, thanks for spelling out your supplement schedule. I found that very helpful. Would you recommend using the same supplements on a rotating schedule if it is being dusted on crickets for tree frogs? Also, what is your feeling on gut load products such as Flukers High Calcium Cricket Diet used in conjunction with the dusting? I am just feeding some tree frogs that take their sweet time getting up and eating at night so I am concerned about the dusted suppliments not always making it to them by the time they catch their food. Thank you in advance for your input.


 
I do use it for treefrogs. 

As for gutloading.. If you want to subscribe to TWI's Leaf Litter there is a good summary of it in there or you can read through the following threads 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/45572-cricket-diet-sustained-diet-gutloading-2.html 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/23936-gutloading-crickets.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/10367-what-feed-fortify-my-crickets-2.html

Does that help? 

Ed


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## Pumilo

What is your opinion on Repashy SuperPig, Ed? Should that one also be replaced every 6 months?


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## Ed

Hi Doug,

I'm going to pass along Dr. Wright's suggestion.. All supplements that contain vitamins should be replaced approximately every six months as even the non-fat soluble vitamins begin to degrade around that point. 


Ed


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## Pumilo

Ed said:


> Hi Doug,
> 
> I'm going to pass along Dr. Wright's suggestion.. All supplements that contain vitamins should be replaced approximately every six months as even the non-fat soluble vitamins begin to degrade around that point.
> 
> 
> Ed


OK, good. I just ordered some yesterday along with a fresh batch of Repashy Calcium Plus. Just didn't know for sure if it was wasted money as it's primarily for color but figured I better ere on the side of caution.


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## Erikb3113

Repashy Calcium plus last longer than 6 months if kept in the fridge though right?


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## supe22

Ed,
Thank you very much for all the info.


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