# A call for pictures of Peperomia serpens "large form"



## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

As of right now there are two plants in the hobby circulating as Peperomia serpens. I have been communicating with an expert on the genus to help give correct names to some of the more questionable Pep's. In regards to serpens, only the "small leaf" form is the true serpens. The larger leaf form is then obviously something else. 

In hopes of identifying the something else that it is, I'm calling for pics of said species in bloom. Ill include a pic or two here of the plant in question.



















Thank you!


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

This could be scandens if anyone has that growing in a viv to compare


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

NathanB said:


> This could be scandens if anyone has that growing in a viv to compare


P. scandens is on the list of possibilities. I personally have been going between scandens and urocarpa. Some of the others are P. nitida, P. urocarpoides, etc... 

Hahaha. You see the problem? We need a good inflorescence shot. All in all, it's still NOT serpens- so we are a step closer. 

I believe I got this one from Bonnie. Perhaps she has flowered it and will chime in?


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

I believe the name P. scandens is considered a synonym of P. serpens. The old plant (which looks like the one you have pictured) has always been in the trade under the name P. scandens or P. serpens . I've been told this is P. nitida. 

This is the plant that I have tagged as the large form of Peperomia serpens (from Peru)


The plant that I have as the smaller form of P. serpens is a plant that has an Ecuadorian origin. And looks just like the above plant, but half the size.

As with most Peperomias, if you were to tell me that it ends up being a different, closely related species, I wouldn't be surprised.


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## fishman9809 (Dec 8, 2008)

My serpens has many growth habits. When in varying lighting and humidity environments it has gone from small, very pointed leaves, to large, broad, heart-shaped leaves. I've always wondered what the true serpens looks like but I feel like the different shapes might just be due to different growing conditions.


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

Manuran said:


> I believe the name P. scandens is considered a synonym of P. serpens. The old plant (which looks like the one you have pictured) has always been in the trade under the name P. scandens or P. serpens . I've been told this is P. nitida.
> 
> This is the plant that I have tagged as the large form of Peperomia serpens (from Peru)
> 
> ...


The small leaf variety of serpens that I received from you was positively ID'd as true serpens. Check Peperomia.net and you will see the measurements line up. 

Scandens is listed as a possible synonym for serpens, so that may rule that one out as a possible ID. I'm no expert. Im just having fun with all of this and relying on expert help to learn. 

The large form you have looks different than my pics and I agree that mine may very well be P. nitida. 

For the pic you posted, do you have estimates as to the sizes of the leaves and any data on collection (besides Peru)? 

Thanks for your contributions on this Chuck!


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

fishman9809 said:


> My serpens has many growth habits. When in varying lighting and humidity environments it has gone from small, very pointed leaves, to large, broad, heart-shaped leaves. I've always wondered what the true serpens looks like but I feel like the different shapes might just be due to different growing conditions.


The one that I had ID'd as serpens has small leaves regardless of cultural conditions. Looks like this:










The scale is missing, but each leaf is about the size of an index fingernail.


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Interesting topic. I will be following this one closely...

I have what I believe to be said Peperomia, which I recieved from a state side forum member some years ago now. Labelled as P. serpens it looks very much like a miniature Philodendron with its largest leaves no more than 1 1/2 inch for me. 

To me said plant bares no resembance to P. urocarpa, in the respect that my urocarpa has a more traditional serpens, heart shaped leaf (although no where as defined a heart as serpens) which is no longer than it is wide.

I have seen a plant sold as P. urocarpoides which although similar exhibits reddened stems, which my P. urocarpa is yet to do despite being grown under more than apt lighting. This plant again, to me looks very disimilar to the plant in question.

Plants identical to this Peperomia are traded as P. nitida and P. macrostachya, atleast this is what I have found...

Regards,
Richie


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I have a variegated plant of the large one that I received as macrostachys (macrostachya?). I just assumed the label wrong and have been calling it serpens.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

I have both. No flowering yet.


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## fishman9809 (Dec 8, 2008)

This might be old taxonomic data but both of the following are classified as serpens.

Costa Rica:
http://images.mobot.org/tropicosdetailimages/Tropicos/250/B22A5903-6C9A-4BDB-8CB4-0AD3C951E844.jpg

Peru:
http://images.mobot.org/tropicosdetailimages/Tropicos/250/76834F1B-A397-4A67-98B3-CD933A298371.jpg


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

fishman9809 said:


> This might be old taxonomic data but both of the following are classified as serpens.
> 
> Costa Rica:
> http://images.mobot.org/tropicosdetailimages/Tropicos/250/B22A5903-6C9A-4BDB-8CB4-0AD3C951E844.jpg
> ...


I was going to mention this the last time you posted these, but never got around to it.
If you notice on the bottom of the page for the Costa Rican plant, there is an identification of P. cataratasensis. This peperomia was considered a synonym to P. serpens in a 1971 treatment of the Piperaceae of Costa Rica. The current thinking is that P. cataratasensis is not a synonym of P. serpens, but belongs to P. urocarpoides. 
I know you are just using this as an example of the leaf forms, but I think many of the thin leafed plants called P. serpens are actually different species.

Btw, the above info about P. cataratasensis is from an expert in the field and just relayed to me.


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## fishman9809 (Dec 8, 2008)

Very interesting. Peperomia is a curious group of organisms


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

fishman9809 said:


> Very interesting. *Peperomia is a curious group of organisms*


I read that too fast and for a second I was like... "What did he just say?!!" 



I think a huge problem with this is going to be the fact that not one of us has any provenance info for this larger leaved species. Is Guido Matheiu the one that is the "Expert" that is being referenced here? If not, I would like to hear his input on this as well.


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

Frogtofall said:


> I read that too fast and for a second I was like... "What did he just say?!!"
> 
> 
> 
> I think a huge problem with this is going to be the fact that not one of us has any provenance info for this larger leaved species. Is Guido Matheiu the one that is the "Expert" that is being referenced here? If not, I would like to hear his input on this as well.


Agreed. I'd love to have plants with known collection info. 

The expert indeed is Guido. The guy is fantastic with this stuff. My original post has info that was derived from him.


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

Manuran said:


> This is the plant that I have tagged as the large form of Peperomia serpens (from Peru)
> 
> .


Do you have another picture of this same plant with anything for scale? Guido was interested in this one.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I think that is a different plant than what you have, and isnt really as large. I'll take a photo of my "scandens" when I get home, but have yet to flower it.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

This is what it does when grown without the humidity









Fuzzy but you can see how think the leaves get


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## Manuran (Aug 28, 2007)

andersonii85 said:


> Do you have another picture of this same plant with anything for scale? Guido was interested in this one.


Not the greatest pic, but hopefully it will do. The leaves can get a little larger. Also, in some situations the leaves take on this stretched out heart shape and in other situations the leaves are a more classic heart shape.


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## CloudForestClimber (Sep 29, 2014)

This is an old thread and I don't know if anyone will see this, but I have to try. I work on Peperomias in Monteverde, Costa Rica, and have a very distinct and very common species which I have been calling serpens. However, now that I see pictures on the internet of other supposed serpens, I feel like they are a little different. It is less heart-shaped, leaves are usually 1-2 inches, always somewhat succulent and glabrous, always with the 5 distinct vein grooves, usually some red or purple mottling on the stem. does anyone know what this plant is?


Also, does anyone know a good place for help on Pep IDs? I notice this is a frog website


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

I'll send you a pm with a good contact.


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