# Planting ideas please help



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

This is my new tank, it’s a Exo Terra 60x45x60 I’m going to be housing a group of DENDROBATES LEUCOMELAS and I’m very new to vivarium plants and dartfrogs and want to give the little guys a nice vivarium so any suggestions would be much appreciated thanks in advance! I’ve also got two coconuts and a water dish for spring water!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

The design of your hardscape is quite nice - the large limb wrapping around is a great focal point.

The Alocasia sp you have in the back right corner is not a great choice. Those plants are not really properly proportioned for smaller/med vivs. They area pretty - but they will swallow an enormous amount of space heavily shade all your other plants.

Is the back-top of the viv always so dark? If you don't supply broms with very bright light, they won't keep good color and they'll grow longer leaves that will cast alot of shade since they're so high up...

-|<ipp


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

kimcmich said:


> The design of your hardscape is quite nice - the large limb wrapping around is a great focal point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the feedback, the alocasia has no plants underneath it and the plan is to put two coconuts at the base.. do you think this will not work? 

The back of the viv is not as dark as the pic looks however I was looking at one of the finnex planted 247 led lights so maybe I should add that behind the compact top?? 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

kimcmich said:


> The design of your hardscape is quite nice - the large limb wrapping around is a great focal point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thought I’d add a pic so you can see if you’d recommend a second light 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

I can't really recommend a light fixture (I'm sure other users can suggest some) but I definitely think you need a supplemental light to brighten-up the back of the viv.

The Alocasia is most likely going to start growing taller and bigger leaves. I think you'll find it doesn't "play well" with the other plants in your viv over time - but you can decide for yourself.

You seem to have a Monsoon misting system. I started with a Monsoon and it worked great for ~6 months. Then the timer control stopped shutting-off the mister properly and it would drain the whole reservoir.

Do you have a false bottom/drainage layer in your viv? Is there a drainage outlet?


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

kimcmich said:


> I can't really recommend a light fixture (I'm sure other users can suggest some) but I definitely think you need a supplemental light to brighten-up the back of the viv.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah I will keep a check on it and if it out grows it then it will become a house plant and I will replace it with something else.. 
I’ve now moved the exoterra compact top to the middle of the viv so it spread the light and it’s much better thank you for pointing it out!
Yeah I have 3 inches of hydroballs and a 20mm pvc pipe that goes from the bottom to the top in the background that I can drop a tube down to drain the water level if it gets too high.
Hopefully mine lasts longer or it will be being replaced! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Looks like you could use a little more leaf litter. Like the setup though. What kind of leaves are in there now?


----------



## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

I've become a less is more kind of guy when looking at planted aquariums and vivariums. Too often it becomes a botanical garden of one of everything when in reality it is more common for a given few square feet to only have a few species in nature. Given enough time a handful of plants will completely colonize the whole vivarium. I think you just need to let it grow in and mature. One place where I do think more variety is needed is the leaf litter. Mix different types of leaves in varying states of decay. Add some curly and ruffled leaves to the leaf litter to give the frogs a more varied area to hunt. Don't try to keep the leaf litter a flat two dimensional plane. When I had darts, my leucos loved exploring the various nooks and crannies in the leaf litter. Just look at my avatar picture.


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Okapi said:


> I've become a less is more kind of guy when looking at planted aquariums and vivariums. Too often it becomes a botanical garden of one of everything when in reality it is more common for a given few square feet to only have a few species in nature. Given enough time a handful of plants will completely colonize the whole vivarium. I think you just need to let it grow in and mature. One place where I do think more variety is needed is the leaf litter. Mix different types of leaves in varying states of decay. Add some curly and ruffled leaves to the leaf litter to give the frogs a more varied area to hunt. Don't try to keep the leaf litter a flat two dimensional plane. When I had darts, my leucos loved exploring the various nooks and crannies in the leaf litter. Just look at my avatar picture.


I try to maximize the surface area on the bottom of my vivs by constantly adding more leaf litter as the old stuff decays. More surface area means more hiding spaces for the frogs as well as more refuge for your micro fauna such as springs and isos. The newly added leaves add the most surface area as they are not compacted down by the weight of the frogs and decomposition. But to kickstart your viv I can see a potential benefit to using a variety of leaf litter that has different rates of decomposition.


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

Thank you for the comments I’ve changed a few things and am ready to prune when I need to, I have 3 different types of leaf litter in the viv and plenty more to add as this starts to rot.. frogs are coming in 3 weeks now 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Glad to see you raise that cryptanthus up out of the substrate and higher up towards the lights. They definitely don't like wet feet. Should do much better for you up there.


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Did I miss any discussion of the substrate/drainage layer? Can't see if there is a false bottom or other drainage layer from the photo and what is being used as substrate? Leaf litter is definitely a good idea, but if it's over top of something that will end up swampy, it won't work the way you want it to. Maybe I am not seeing things correctly in the picture. Great looking hardscape, by the way!

Mark


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

varanoid said:


> Glad to see you raise that cryptanthus up out of the substrate and higher up towards the lights. They definitely don't like wet feet. Should do much better for you up there.




I’ve changed a few things that have been commented on, seems silly to ask for advice and then not listen to it when it’s given.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> Did I miss any discussion of the substrate/drainage layer? Can't see if there is a false bottom or other drainage layer from the photo and what is being used as substrate? Leaf litter is definitely a good idea, but if it's over top of something that will end up swampy, it won't work the way you want it to. Maybe I am not seeing things correctly in the picture. Great looking hardscape, by the way!
> 
> 
> 
> Mark




3 inches of clay hydroballs and then it’s a mix of Exo Terra plantation soil, Exo Terra rainforest substrate which is mostly bark and some of the Exo Terra chopped leaf litter that will help with the spring tails and isopods 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> Did I miss any discussion of the substrate/drainage layer? Can't see if there is a false bottom or other drainage layer from the photo and what is being used as substrate? Leaf litter is definitely a good idea, but if it's over top of something that will end up swampy, it won't work the way you want it to. Maybe I am not seeing things correctly in the picture. Great looking hardscape, by the way!
> 
> 
> 
> Mark













Hopefully this shows what I mean 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Rob1987 said:


> 3 inches of clay hydroballs and then it’s a mix of Exo Terra plantation soil, Exo Terra rainforest substrate which is mostly bark and some of the Exo Terra chopped leaf litter that will help with the spring tails and isopods
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The picture helped a lot. Your drainage layer seems to be set up just fine. I am not at all sure about that substrate mixture, though. I am not as familiar with the products you specified, but it sounds like to me that drainage could be an issue in that substrate. The reason so many people use ABG is that it retains the right amount of moisture. It doesn't dry out too fast, but it also doesn't retain all of the water that goes into it. It does this by incorporating things like tree fern fiber (very difficult to buy anymore) and charcoal. The bark, peat, and sphagnum components in ABG are relatively minor compared to your mix. The bark usually used in ABG is much coarser, too. I suspect you are going to end up with a soupy mess over time. Too much water retention can lead to anaerobic conditions that will rot your substrate and give off some very undesirable byproducts (hydrogen sulphide, for one). Maybe I am wrong, though. Anybody else have any experience with the kind of mix the OP is using?

Mark


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> The picture helped a lot. Your drainage layer seems to be set up just fine. I am not at all sure about that substrate mixture, though. I am not as familiar with the products you specified, but it sounds like to me that drainage could be an issue in that substrate. The reason so many people use ABG is that it retains the right amount of moisture. It doesn't dry out too fast, but it also doesn't retain all of the water that goes into it. It does this by incorporating things like tree fern fiber (very difficult to buy anymore) and charcoal. The bark, peat, and sphagnum components in ABG are relatively minor compared to your mix. The bark usually used in ABG is much coarser, too. I suspect you are going to end up with a soupy mess over time. Too much water retention can lead to anaerobic conditions that will rot your substrate and give off some very undesirable byproducts (hydrogen sulphide, for one). Maybe I am wrong, though. Anybody else have any experience with the kind of mix the OP is using?
> 
> 
> 
> Mark




I can’t get abg in the uk unfortunately, so I had to create my own the plantation soil is coconut husk fibre and this is the rainforest substrate mix









It drains well into the drainage layer and the humidity stays between 75% and 95% without much misting and my fan runs for an hour on and the then hour off all day! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

I've used that product before in the past with decent success. But it did retain more moisture than what some of my plants appreciated. But that is under the conditions I used it ie my ventilation, my watering schedule, my heat, etc. You can tweak your conditions to make it work for you no problem.


----------



## Rob1987 (Aug 25, 2018)

varanoid said:


> I've used that product before in the past with decent success. But it did retain more moisture than what some of my plants appreciated. But that is under the conditions I used it ie my ventilation, my watering schedule, my heat, etc. You can tweak your conditions to make it work for you no problem.




Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

