# Tadpole food Experiment - UPDATE 7-2-2005



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Ok I started this experiment to try to see what tadpole food would produce the healthiest frogs. 

*Thanks to Quality Captives who donated the auratus tads for the test! *

Food tested:
Algae Mix (Spirulina and Chlorella)
Brine Shrimp (dried)
Fish Food
Frog Bites
Sera Micron

Conditions:
- seperate containers
- treated tap water that was also aged
- home made black water extract added to the water
- couple of leaf pieces (magnolia)
- fed twice a week (Wed. and Sat.)
- weekly water changes

Update 7/2/2005
*Algae Mix:*
2 out of the water - average days=89 - average weeks=12.7
*Brine Shrimp:*
4 out of the water - average days=82.25 - average weeks=11.8
*Fish Food:*
5 out of the water - average days=80 - average weeks=11.4
*Frog Bites:*
5 out of the water - average days=73.8 - average weeks=10.5
*Sera Micron:*
0 out of the water

Please note this is early data as only half of the tads are out of the water:
So far no algea or Sera Micron tads are out of the water yet, and they are much smaller than the tads on the other three foods. I will post more after the rest are out of the water and can answer any questions needed. I had hoped to be able top post pics, but due to work did not get to take them. I have personally been using Frog Bites for all my tads for about 8 months or so with great results, which is another reason why I started this test.

Update 7/2/2005:
Just wanted to post an update. So far the only tads remaining are all on hte Sera Micron. Not one has come out of the water yet and not one even has front legs yet. As for the others they are all doing well and eating. I did lose one Algae tad for unknown reasons.

Chlorella , and Spirulina powers are human grade and list the info by grams per Tsp. The protein is 2g and 5g per Tsp.

Fish Food TatraMin Tropical Flakes:
Crude Protein: 48%
Min. Crude Fat 8%
Max. Crude Fiber: 2%

Sera Micron:
Crude Protein: 52.1%
Crude Fat: 5.8%
Crude Fiber: 9.6%

Hikari Brine Shrimp:
Crude Protein: 47%
Crude Fat: 5.5%
Crude Fiber: .5%

Frogbites:
Crude Protein: 42%
Crude Fat: 16%
Crude Fiber: 3%


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## jmcc000 (Apr 7, 2005)

Hey, who makes these frog bites and where can we get them?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

http://www.hbhnet.com/products.html


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## jmcc000 (Apr 7, 2005)

Hey Kyle, is this a good price?

http://www.herpsupplies.com/product.cfm?id=AHH20003


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

I think they sell those at petsmart also


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## jmcc000 (Apr 7, 2005)

True, but i would rather support the "little guy" than chain stores


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Very interesting. I'm surprised that frog bites beat everything else(and I'm assuming algae mix is what people normally use).

If you eve decide to run this test again how about using frozen bloodworms or live blackworms in it? Or perhaps different kinds of fish food...


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

jmcc000 I agree 100%. Big pet stores (and alot of little ones) suck and arent good for anything except dog and cat supplys. All the help is well under qualified.


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## jmcc000 (Apr 7, 2005)

So true. When i first got married i worked parttime at Petland. The reptile manager had no clue and neither did any of the others. The bad thing about these places is that they have to go by a set guideline on the way things have to be done. If they do not do things exactly how they're told they get fined. Needless to say i did not work there long.


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## mikejorg (Jul 9, 2004)

*tadpole feeding*

Were you able to offer equal amounts of food type (by gram) to each tadpole or group of tads during every feeding?


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Was the same amount of each food given?


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

Kyle is going to be answearing questions for days. I can see it now.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Well the frogbites run from $1.50 to $4.00 depending where you get them so if your at the lower end you found a good price.

As for the measuring of the food. No I did not exactly measure the food as I do not have a gram scale. I will say since I only feed them twice a week I did feed them heavy with all foods. I would say I got it close to the same amount of each food, but it was not exact. I would like to note that one of the reasons I personally switch to frog bites after a smaller scale experiment was that the froglets were clearly larger then the ones I was raising on Algae.

I will also note that all of the tads seemed to do well on all of the foods I tried. They should all morph out, but in the end I think some of the foods are a bit better.


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## v_traves (May 14, 2005)

I have had good success with mixing GNC human grade spirulina, chlorella, and frog and tad bites from HBH. The HBH doesn't seem to dirty up the water as badly as fish foods.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Yes I agree the Frogbites do not dirty the water as bad as fish food.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2005)

Great now the company is going to find out there product works and jack up the price just wait. :x


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## Spar (Mar 27, 2004)

how were the ages and batches of the tadpoles treated with this experiment?

are you sure that all the tadpoles were approximately the same age? I have noticed that some batches of tadpoles from even the same frog have different sizes and growth rates regardless of the type of food beign fed.

that brings up the point that if the batches of tadpoles were not intermixed for the feeding test, then it may be a batch specific faster growth rate rather than an actual food being better.

just some thoughts! either way I am going to purchase some Frog Bites and try them out  I may try this same test on my Vent tads, as I have about 8 batches all with the date they hatched on the container they are in. Maybe different foods have different effects between Thumbs and Large PDF's?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I did just as you said. I had tads from 3 clutches and mixed them up between the foods. I did track each from its laid date to morphed date.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

If you want this to qualifie under experiment you will have to try more then once at least three times. But sounds great.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I agree and I may try it again, but like I said noticed a size and speed increase with my own tads before comparing them side by side.


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## Marty (Feb 27, 2004)

The frog bites, tadpole bites and salamander bites are all the same, just the size of the pellets varies, am I correct? I hope we're talking about the same thing. 

If you guys want, I will duplicate the experiment at a larger scale...I just need someone to donate few thousand tadpoles...any volunteers? 



kyle1745 said:


> I agree and I may try it again, but like I said noticed a size and speed increase with my own tads before comparing them side by side.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

Ok i have permission. I was talking with my mom about your experiment and i asked if i could do an experiment. NOW it gets better she works in a lab and said i could set up a little area in her workspace where i could have everything controlled including

Temperature

Quanity of Food

2 times a week water change ( with the highest tech R/O unit you have ever seen but any ideas on what to add so there are some mineral Blackwater?)

Dates they morph out

I will also attempt trying to mark when they sprout legs.

The only problem is having a tad that just isnt normal and messing with the results


I would like someone to volunteer 12 tadpoles cannabalistic or non cannabalistic doesnt matter. ( no egg feeders obviously) There will be four foods three tadpoles per food. If you can volunteer more i can do more foods.

I would like to know what foods people want to know the most amount.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I'd like to see how blackworms compare with the rest since I've heard of a few using them. Other brands of fishfood(Hikari...maybe try the Micropellets), etc. etc.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

I would really like to use at least one live food whether blackworms, dapnia, brine shrimp, etc. The only thing with live foods is it is harder to measure how much they get and what the live food is fed.

If you have the tadpoles to volunteer please pm me or e- mail me.
E-mail [email protected]

Any ideas appreciated.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Blackworms will be much easier to weigh than daphnia etc. for sure. Daphnia seem to have promise for use as food though...they probably eat lots of small crustaceans and insect larvae in the wild.

Btw, this is probably asking way too much but it would be cool to run experiments to see what water volume does to speed and size of tadpoles. I was browsing the Frognet archives which had lots of info on this.


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

it all pretty much depends on how much space i will have to work with and how many tads i can get.

I think this will give us the best results being that it is in a labe with controlled variables.


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Frozen bloodworms, brineshrimp, or tubifex worms would be a good idea to try. There are new frozen brine shrimp impregnated with chlorella and spirulina that just came out also, those might be good to try. I would think that frozen foods have a much higher nutrient value than any of the dry foods...would be a good variable to try out.

Luke


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

Keep the ideas flowing this is all great. I think i will start a new thread.

Kyle i feel uncertain what you feel about my plan not to take your credit but you are the one ywho inspired me to get this going so i am just trying to help all of us. Are you cool with that?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

No worries my thought with starting this test was to get people thinking, and trying themselves. I may try again and try to track down a gram scale. From my standpoint the only thing missing would be exact food amounts. One issue I think that will pop up is that the same quantity of food in some cases may foul the water to the point that it kills the tad. For example some Fish Food you would have to use very lightly. 

I can also tell you temperature and water levels were exactly the same. I used 8oz of water in 16oz cups and the temps ran from 70-74.

Also please note that only have of my tads are out of the water so there is more data to come. I can also see about getting another batch started and pick up a gram scale. 

I have all the exact dates and data like you said and I used frogs from 3 different clutches and mixed them through out the test. So while I agree more testing is needed I think I have shown that based on my conditions frogbites, fish food, and Brine shrimp can produce larger tads that come out of the water faster.


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## mikejorg (Jul 9, 2004)

*tadpole exp.*

You can bypass the fouling of the water by performing daily water changes. In addition one might crush fish flakes and pellet food into powder before offering to tads; this reduces competition for foraging space and standardizes the efficiency by which they ingest their food.


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

I doubt the ammount of food given will make a large differnce. The tads will eat what they can in one sitting and then all that extra food sits there to be cleaned up. Its not the biggest concern to see how much food is given cause im sure that enough is given that the tad does not want any more. The problem here is that this test was only done to a few tads and odds say that in a first trial run any results can come out. This theory has to be tested on more then 10 or 20 tads, and we will not get the right answer until we get feedback from more than just one person. Any of us who have tads growing should try different foods and see what happens, then bring all our thoughts together and the hypothesis will form on what is better and what is worse. This takes the brains and minds of all of us and its not a discussion that will be solved in just one forum. 

* i myself only feed my tads live foods....FF's, blood works,ants, or anything live that they will devower, and they seem to morph out all in one piece * NATURE DOES IT SO WHY SHOULDNT WE


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Well actually for the frogbites that would foul the water. Its better to leave then in the bites. I did crush the fish food, and broke up the brine shrimp as I put it in the container. Also note I had them each in separate containers so there was no fighting for food.

Like I said before I agree and welcome more to try these and other foods as I agree there needs to be more testing. I will say I have raised 50-100 tads on frogbites alone with great success.


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

I picked up some frogbites today and I am looking forward to seeing how they work out


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## Cody (Oct 31, 2004)

I picked some up too! I like them already, way easier than trying to spoon out powders.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

I'm not so sure about tads eating the same amount. Almost all the adult frogs that I know of will stuff themselves right to obesity if given enough food. And we all know that some tads grow faster and larger than others.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I will say that with the frogbites they leftover bites will be in the bottom of the container. So its easy to see what they need and adjust. Now with powdered foods they seem to disolve in the water and then lay on the bottom a bit, but it is not as easy to tell if they have any left at the next feeding.


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

Kyle,

How about the size of froglets that come out of the water? Are they the same? some bigger than others?

I don't mind my tads stay in the water for a while as long as they grow bigger.

S


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Thats the thing the froglets come out faster, larger and more active. Its a very noticable difference. I need to get a gram scale to see how much.


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## doncoyote (Apr 20, 2005)

2 good sources of gram scales (esp. triple beams):
- eBay - of course!
- local police dept. - I've never tried this one but many folks on a listserv I subscribe to swear by it.


*edit* - just to clarify - the other listserv has nothing to do w/ illegal substances


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Kyle,

I like your experiment. This is all very interesting. Can you give us a rundown on the amount of protein and fiber in each food? I’m a fish person who is just researching frogs but I will relate two accounts from raising killifish fry. 

More water changes and larger volume of water = faster fry growth
Higher protein food = faster fry growth, but at a cost.

High protein food is difficult on the kidneys and liver. In fish it is thought to cause premature kidney failure resulting in bloat (a lethal condition). High protein diets are difficult on humans as well so it is probably not a reach to infer that protein may be hard on amphibians. Their phylogeny lies between that of fish and humans. 

If frogbites are high in protein but low in roughage I would opt for the brine shrimp which has lots of roughage due to the chitin exoskeleton of the shrimp.

Just some thoughts,
Chris


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2005)

Surely for this test to be worth anything we should look at the longevity of the frogs also. Its all very well beleaving the frog bites get tads out of the water quicker, but what if they all keel over from massive heart attacks because their foods too fatty.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2005)

Guess i should have read the rest of the thread, Yea, what grassy peak said


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

It would be interesting to see if, or how much earlier the frogs reach breeding age when started on the bites.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2005)

*sls?*

I may have missed this facet, but what about SLS? Is there any difference in the tads that morph with it between foods?

Matt


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Chlorella , and Spirulina powers are human grade and list the info by grams per Tsp. The protein is 2g and 5g per Tsp.

Fish Food TatraMin Tropical Flakes:
Crude Protein: 48%
Min. Crude Fat 8%
Max. Crude Fiber: 2%

Sera Micron:
Crude Protein: 52.1%
Crude Fat: 5.8%
Crude Fiber: 9.6%

Hikari Brine Shrimp:
Crude Protein: 47%
Crude Fat: 5.5%
Crude Fiber: .5%

Frogbites:
Crude Protein: 42%
Crude Fat: 16%
Crude Fiber: 3%

So far I have not seen any SLS with this experiment and in the past have only seen it as a direct result of water quality. If anyone has any more questions please let me know. I have a few more out of the water and will be updating the stats this weekend.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

more info added in the main post.


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## PAULSCHUMANN (Apr 20, 2005)

were there any problems with spindly leg syndrome?


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## droseraman (Jun 17, 2004)

since you are all talking about water quality too somone should do an experiment with diffrent water. Like the black water extracts and leaves to make tadpole tea to see which has the best results if i had tadpoles at the moment i would do it.


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## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

All of these are neat ideas for experiments, if only I could convince my school to give me credit to do a few and write up the results.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Any difference in coloration?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

In at least one study, protien content and water quality are two of the major factors that limits growth and metamorphosis size. Increasing protien in the diet and frequent water changes should produce larger sized metamorphs. 

(For one study see http://www.bioteck.org/aq/Litoria%20aurea%201.htm, 

I'm not totally happy with the above study as on a quick scan I could see citations in the article but did not see a bibliography at the end of the article. 

Ed


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I did not have any SLS in the first round. I will say I am starting a second round with a much larger number of tads from various different frogs. So I will have more data to come. I hope to be able to weigh the frogs after this round as I am picking up a gram scale. If the are any other ideas to try I may be able to get it in this round. I have also removed sera micron from the test due to how poorly it did in the first test. I should have the final data soon as the last tads are starting to come out of the water now.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

When I was at Petco the other day buying some substrate ingredients, I happened across JurassiDiet Newt and Aquatic Frog Food. Comparing the list of ingredients to that of Frog and Tadpole Bites, the JurassiDiet stuff seemed to have better quality stuff in it. I'm wondering if any futher experiments are conducted, if it would be possible to include the JurassiDiet stuff? I'm curious about how it stacks up.

Here's a link to the product page:

http://www.jurassipet.com/Products/JurassiDiet_NF.html


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I am all for trying another food, I have an extended test running right now with all the same foods as before but minus the sera micron. I have a couple other foods people have asked me to try so after this set I could try the others.


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2005)

Great tests..
This will be very helpful with the newer tads that are coming in. Should be fun to replicate the results.

WEre you feeding straight Spirulina with no other additives? This would susstain the protein but you would also need an ess. fat to, no?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

It was the standard algae mix, not just one.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2005)

kyle1745 said:


> Chlorella , and Spirulina powers are human grade and list the info by grams per Tsp. The protein is 2g and 5g per Tsp.
> 
> Fish Food TatraMin Tropical Flakes:
> Crude Protein: 48%
> ...


The best fish food at the moment is Tetra Prima, that has 47.5% protien in it, ive allways used it for my fish, so i guess i should continue in my beliefs and try it for some tads, just got to get some frogs first.

Tetra Prima

Top quality complete granular food for tropical fish. Superb for Discus. Contains natural colour enhancers. Designed to float and then sink slowly allowing all levels of fish to feed.

Typical Analysis:
Protein 47.5%
Oil 6.5%
Ash 10.5%
Fibre 2%
Vit A 29,770 IU/Kg
Vit D 1,860 IU/Kg
Vit E 200mg/Kg
Vit C 137mg/Kg


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

I'm curious as to what results a mixed diet might produce. Seeing as how each food has different percentages of the various nutrients, any nutrient missed from one brand might be supplimented from another. It might be worthwhile to see if a variety of foods would be better than each brand on its own.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I am in the middle of a much larger test with the same food as the first, and will try to do another round afterwords if I can. I have a few requests for foods to try.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2006)

any updates on this?

Cheers

Jon


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

hello all,
from 10 years of experience and literally thousands of morphed tads i have never found anything better than aquarian flakes or really any well balanced fish food. i recently tried to switch to algea wafers(ground) daphnia and bloodworms(dried) because it was more natural and had horrible results. i saw some tail kinking and generally small froglets at the end result. i have taken groups of tads and raised them on all sorts of fish foods and algae mixes and dried insect mixes.
i have never tried the no water change unless it was tads carried to the water feature in the tank and then they actually got water changes just no fish food. they come out huge but it`s usually only 1 or 2 out of the clutch that make it because of cannibalism. i have had a dwarf tinc morph out of a petri dish used as a soak dish left in the parents cage and it rivaled the size of those fed fish food. 
i never had very much luck w/ single foods during tad rearing. after yet another try i have reverted back to 100% aquarian tropical and goldfish and now i`m trying it against spirulina since ive heard a lot about it. i used it years ago and if i remember correct it didnt compare or i didnt like the smell, kinda like asparagus pee if i remember correct, under my conditions at the time. 
it sounds wierd that these ground fish meal and kelp and rice flour and beet flour and cod liver, yeast, egg and vit a and a couple types of b supplements would do better than dried insects and algae. the crude protein is only 30% * which may make the tads stay in the water longer and form better producing a larger tad over a longer time. although this can vary for just about every species. i think this mix may be the best all around. i wish i would have taken notes but i just compare and eliminate, sometimes 2 x if i forgot i did it before. i havent tried everything though. 
* aquarian tropical aquarian goldfish
protein 33.5 30.5
fat 10 9.5
fiber 2 2
vit a 10k iu same
vit d 2.4k 2.4k iu
calc 2.3 same
iron 300ppm same
ingredients combined fish meal, wheat flour, cod liver oil, tomatto rice beetroot barley flour, tagetes meal, dried kelp, salt, cholline chlor, torula dried yeast ctric acid ascorbic and nicotinic acid vit k folic acid etc.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I've always had excellant success with a good quality fish food. I have had very good success when adding blackworms to the diet in addition to the fish flakes. I know a person in Europe that uses small pieces of earthworm as a supplemental food source for his tads. 


Ed


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## Jordan B (Oct 8, 2004)

What do you think of frogbites compared to fish food Ed?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Let me figure out a way to post the rest of the data. I can tell you that with testing on well over 100 tads from various species that Brine, and Frogbites, beat fish food and the standard algae mix hands down. I based this mainly on time out of the water, weight, and cases of SLS. I did not have one case of SLS on Brine or Frogbites, and very minor cases on the other foods.

I use frogbites exclusively, and am now testing reconstituted RO water with great success.


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## josh raysin (Nov 28, 2005)

interesting data: im currently using a mix of spririlla, stinging nettle, bee pollen, herptavite and cyclop-eze. i had some vittatus morph in 10-11 weeks. dont have enough tads or experience to compare but its working well for now.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

the problem w/ the study is that the general health of different clutches, let alone the health of individual tads, w/in a clutch can scew results. other considerations are the temps and where in the feeding cycle the parents are if you dust w/ vit on mon-wed fri and calc tues thur sat. the composition on the vit and min involved in formation can be different if the clutch started developing on mon or 24 hours later. the amt of vit and minerals will be different each time. clutches layed on monday may be different than clutches on tues etc. maybe clutches that start forming on monday are good because they need that break in dusting to have the right balance to start forming a good clutch. i know it gets real complicated. luckily it`s not that specific on whether they are good or not(parameters are much wider so that dusting w/ one each day may not evven matter). you`d have to have constant temps and the exact same caloric and vit/min uptake to have a constant. the only way to make assumptions is to increase the sheer numbers being studied to look for patterns in general and throw out anything that might be related to the parents since most of these things are determined before the eggs hatch. at least thats how i understand it. i`m sure there are people a lot more knowledgable in nutrition than i. this is what i have used as a background for my dusting and feeding techniques etc.(how i understand the equation thru what i have seen in my general collection).
you can throw in a little of everything and hope they get enough or you can focus on what is needed in their diet and stick to a constant , non changing schedule of what basically works for consistant breeding. such as ff`s dusted w/ vit calc 7/days. then if you see a steady decrease in health of the tads or formation of the eggs then you add something and monitor the next couple clutches. if it gets better by adding cricket once a week then you stick to that schedule. if things start going bad you go back to just dusted ff`s and crickets 1 x every 2 weeks. etc till you get what is consistant for your conditions. if you used full clutches on each different food you may see decreased health not related to what they are eating but what the parents are eating. i feed all the same thing to my tads and see different health levels in different clutches. 
then individual cups may vary in temperature as they are closer to a wall or heat source. ive seen a 5f difference between water temps over 2-4 feet on an open table. cups near the wall could be a degree or 2 less constant. 
the only way to get a better result is to experiment X 1000 fold. 
ive heard tons of people recommend sera micron so it`s hard to believe it produced such bad results. ive never personally tried it though. 
as for frogbites, i had a half bottle for years since my tads wouldnt eat them. i wasnt breeding auratus back then. maybe it`s different temps we keep our tads at or maybe my experience is mostly w/ other species than auratus. it`s good to see someone posting results though. keep up the good work and thanks for the info.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

disregard last post, i guess i missed page 2 first time around, sorry.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "Let me figure out a way to post the rest of the data. I can tell you that with testing on well over 100 tads from various species that Brine, and Frogbites, beat fish food and the standard algae mix hands down. I based this mainly on time out of the water, weight, and cases of SLS. I did not have one case of SLS on Brine or Frogbites, and very minor cases on the other foods. "

Hi Kyle, 

This is true but your results may or may not be appliciable to other people with respect to SLS as this can be significantly impacted by nutritional state of the adults....

As for the frogbites I haven't seen any independent analysis of these so its hard to have a real opinion. 

Ed


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Agreed on the nutritional state of the adults, but I do want to make this point. I have a mix of algae that I made from top quality human grade algae which I had very high cases of SLS when using. Strange I know but this is where my testing started. I had raised a number of tadpoles prior to this with no issues and then started using this mix and had issues. Pior to that I was using someone else’s alae mix. Everything else was constant, water type, temperatures, and parental care. Now I had 2 sets of parents that had never had 1 case of SLS do the same thing. I since have not had 1 SLS case from either set of parents.

Sera Micron - while I do feed a little to tads when they first go into the water it seems to really not be enough for the frogs. They grow very slow, and come out of the water very small. In some cases I am talking a 1 month difference with frogs from the same clutch.

Fish Food - I feel is ok as well but the issue here is the water fouling. So unless you are feeding very little or are doing very frequent water changes I do not care for it. It did produce good results in most cases.

Brine - Brine was a surprise that I threw in due to a friend trying it on his tads. Brine could arguably be the best food i tested but much like fish food can foul the water. 

Frog Bites - my food of choice... I can feed heavy with no water fouling. The tads grow fast and come out a very good size. In some cases frogs from the same clutch came out 2 weeks to a month sooner and were larger than the standard algae mix.

I can say I know of a couple of breeders who have switched to frog bites after my tests and have had great results. I agree that much more testing would be required to prove that any one food is better than another. I now feed frogbites to all of my tads including small thumbs. All do very well and since changing I have had no issues.

I am not going to post my second tests data as I ran into a issue during the test that threw off my results. I may plan another test with a control in place so I do not see the same issue. So much like Aarons comments there are just so many variables. Im of the opinion that a number of things work, and there are a couple that work well.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

...I started using the frogbites for my main tad food after the news was out, and my two auratus morphs and imitator are morphing right around 2 months after hatching.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Brian,

How long was it taking when you were using the algae mix? How much of a difference was there?


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Well, I didn't really start keeping track until this post came around, but I am pretty sure it was closer to 3 months...but at the same time I went from feeding algae, brewers yeast, fish flake, and occasional springtails, and using straight RO water with blackwater extract... to frogbites, algae, cyclopeeze, and using RO water with RO right, ph balance, discus trace, and kent blackwater expert...
So nothing scientific comparison at all, just an observation....


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

I never see anybody posting about feeding tads newly hatched brine shrimp. Is there a reason for this??? When I did tropical fish it was considered *THE* most nutritious food you could feed your fry. A lot of hobbyists would feed their fry nothing else for the first few months. Is it because of the hassle of having to hatch them every day? To avoid that hassle you could feed decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, which are the same brine shrimp eggs but with the harder outer cyst removed. These are supposed to be even better than that hatch eggs.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Kyle,

I wasn't questioning your results or methods. I was more concerned that someone would try this method and fail to resolve thier sls issues and then think there was something wrong with your data.... 

When I first got into dart frogs, there had already been a cycle through using plant matter products in rearing dart frog tadpoles with a number of people reporting sls issues with the tadpoles (back then it was nettle powder, and other items) and then there was a shift away to fish food with a shift to Aquarian flake, (there were a number of people who always fed other items in the diet such as blackworms (and back then live tubifex worms), pieces of earthworm, live daphnia, and/or brine shrimp) and more recently a shift to primarily algaes (spirulina etc), and now there appears to be a shift back towards more high protien foods.... 
Through all of this sls has continued to be a problem with the frogs...... 

Ed


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

No worries Ed I did not miss understand you. Just that in my case there seemed to be a link. Thats not to say it wasn't something else, but im never using that mix again...


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