# frog on its back



## BrokenArrow13 (Aug 31, 2012)

I just got my first pdf, a powder blue tinc, today, and it was in it's tank for about 2 hours before I turned off the light. I went back a few minutes later to check on it, and found it on its back. I quickly went into its viv and and turned it over, it was still breathing but very nonresponsive to my handling it. I set it right side up inside of a cork tube laying on the substrate to maybe make it feel secure. My thermometer read a little over 70 f but only have the one thermometer so cannot verify its accuracy, my hygrometer read about 70%, the frog is a little over an inch long and unsexed. I just got the frog tonight so I have not yet fed it, the lights are two 6500k cfls. It is housed in an 18" cube. I am going to continue searching for the cause, but any insight would be very greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Ryan T.


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

Don't touch it or mess with it in any way! Sounds like a calcium deficiency or blood sugar crash. Without having liquid calcium and glucose available, it is best to just leave it alone and hope it recovers over the next few hours. Cover it up and don't look at it until morning. If it recovers get it some food and calcium pronto! 



BrokenArrow13 said:


> I just got my first pdf, a powder blue tinc, today, and it was in it's tank for about 2 hours before I turned off the light. I went back a few minutes later to check on it, and found it on its back. I quickly went into its viv and and turned it over, it was still breathing but very nonresponsive to my handling it. I set it right side up inside of a cork tube laying on the substrate to maybe make it feel secure. My thermometer read a little over 70 f but only have the one thermometer so cannot verify its accuracy, my hygrometer read about 70%, the frog is a little over an inch long and unsexed. I just got the frog tonight so I have not yet fed it, the lights are two 6500k cfls. It is housed in an 18" cube. I am going to continue searching for the cause, but any insight would be very greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you,
> Ryan T.


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## BrokenArrow13 (Aug 31, 2012)

Also, the substrate is ABG, sphagnum, and topped with magnolia and live oak leaf litter. It is planted with a medium sized unidentified tillandsia, a mo peppa please brom, a 'million hearts' dischidium, a hybrid masdevalia orchid, and a black rabbits foot fern. I bought it today at Microcosm in San Diego, and drove it home to Phoe.nix, probably a 6hr. drive, but was sure to make sure it did not overheat. It was very responsive on the drive home and darted about quite a bit in the deli cup. When I put it in the viv, it did not move for probably 30min, and after that only repositioned very slightly. When I found it on its back it was very close to where I had seen it last, and where it landed when I coaxed it into the viv. I'm hoping its a short term stress related issue, but being my first frog I am very unfamiliar with pdf responses to different situations and am very concerned.


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## BrokenArrow13 (Aug 31, 2012)

Thank you for your quick response. I was afraid that was the issue since that often seems to be the cause of this sort of behavior from other posts I have read. I am leaving it until the morning and hoping for the best, I have Repashy cal+, I am hoping it will recover and consume some ffs with a dusting and be on the road to recovery.
Any more thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Something to consider as well is it may have had a small seizure do to the stress of traveling and being placed in a new home. I think you should at least keep it stress free, resist watching it from up close. When you feed make sure you supplement with vitamins and calcium. You also may try contacting the previous owner to make sure they were using supplements. Let us know how things work out, Bill


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

They usually recover within an hour. They only have so much calcium stored in their muscles that they use it quickly in stressful situations. It takes a bit time to replenish it. Sadly, if bothered during an episode lit it can put them over the edge. I guess you'll find out in the morning. Wish you the best!


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## BrokenArrow13 (Aug 31, 2012)

Well when the light came on, the frog wasn't in the cork tube where I left it, which is a slight relief to me. I cannot see it right now, but it is still small and I have alot of magnolia leaves that it could easily hide under and I don't want to go rummaging through them and stress the poor creature out anymore than I have. So for now all I know is that the frog recovered, if only for a short while, from its state of shock and found a hiding spot it found more fitting.
Thanks for your responses and well wishes guys, I really do appreciate it.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Hope he pulls through for you.
Stress events can be harder on frogs that may not have been properly supplemented. For a while, you might want to feed small amounts, more often. Of course dust them with Repashy Calcium Plus. Feeding smaller amounts, more often may keep more dust on the flies and into your frog, as he may eat them quicker.
Good luck.


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## BrokenArrow13 (Aug 31, 2012)

I will definitely try that, like I said I was too afraid to open up the viv for fear of further stressing the frog, but when I get home from work I'm going to offer up some powdered ffs. I've even taped some papers to the sides of the viv so my many dogs do not cause any undue stress as well, maybe went overboard with that but I was concerned about it haha.
On the good side of things, my wife spotted its little blue leg from under a leaf and she said it has repositioned itself a few times so I'm taking that as a positive sign!


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Same thing happened to me, but it was my own frog that didn't sell at Microcosm.

It was a 3-4 month old basti (probably too young to have been taken on a field trip). When I got it home I put it back into its tank without problems. This morning it was upside down on a leaf. I saw a little movement when I took it out so I put it in a little saline solution for a couple minutes then put it in my hand and tried to warm it with my breath. Once the viv lights had been on for a while, I put it on the leaf of a brom (that had a little calcium residue on it) and misted the frog. It layed flat in an awkward position for about 15 minutes. I came back and it had straightened out its front legs. 15 minutes more it had its head lifted off the leaf. Half hour later it had moved to another leaf. Another hour, it looks more alert and less bloated that it had before.
I am not recommending the treatment I used. I just didn't know what else to do. I didn't see this thread until later. I am hoping it pulls though.

I hope your frog pulls through as well.

Edit: I took 2 sibling bastis to the show. Neither sold. The other one went back into the same tank and was fine and hunting springs this morning.


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## BrokenArrow13 (Aug 31, 2012)

So a bit of an update. The frog was under the same leaf for probably about 10 hours. When I got home I had intended to try and feed it. I slowly moved the leaf and poured probably 4 flys infront of it. The frog didn't move for probably 10 minutes, and by that time the flys were well on their way to hiding. Eventually the frog began to slowly crawl around the viv, and not much after that it began to explore it's new enclosure, spending some time at the base of the waterfall I have in there, climbing the wall a few times. Seeing the frog being more active, I thought I'd offer a few more flys hoping it would be more responsive to them now. Again the frog didn't show any interest in the flys, but again began to roam the viv.

My question now is, after its little ordeal yesterday, how long can it go without eating before I should consider it something serious? I'm hoping yesterday was the stressful day, and today was the getting familiar day, and hopefully tomorrow it will begin to eat.

Thanks for your input,
Ryan T.


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