# hyla punctatas and hatchet faced tree frogs



## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

*Hey guys! I just wanted your opinions on a tank setup for these guys. I have some good experience with tree frogs, but I think we can all have room for improvement. I just picked up some hyla punctatas and some hatchet faced tree frogs (don't worry, I'm not keeping them in the same tank). I put both of their names as the subject because I believe that both of their needs are similiar. These were both the "glass frogs" that were being advertised on kingsnake by Tom Crutchfield. 
I'm going to be quarantining them for a couple of months, but I would like to get your ideas about a tank setup. They like high humidity and I believe would possibly even benefit from a large water type setup with plants. I'm not too good with all that kind of stuff, so please be specific in your ideas. I look forward to hearing from you. 
Thanks,
Nicholas*


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I don't know much about them but a short chat with some frog people it seemed like punctata were more along the lines of typical neotropical treefrogs while the hatchet faced frogs where more marshy type frogs rather than arboreal?


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

*Corey,
How would you set up both of those tanks? I'm not too good with tank setups so I could use some ideas! Thanks for your help.
*


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I tracked down some information on the species in question:

Hyla punctata - These frogs are often abundant in emergent aquatic vegetation, including grasses, water hyacinths and water lettuce.

Sphaenorhynchus sp. - Common in marshy areas and lakes, particularly when water lettuce is present. Easy to hear but difficult to spot among vegetation at night. So named for the sharp, chopped-off appearance of the nose. 

(Info taken off this Project Amazonicus Inc. Page)

Ok, so it looks like both are marshy frogs lol. Looks like a shallow aquatic tank (2-5 inches of water over a gravel plant substrate) with emergent aquatic plants like anubias, swordplants, and spaths (peace lilies), from aquarium supply places or Black Jungle, as well as water lettuce and water hyacinths (which you should be able to get from pond supply places at the right time of year). The light would have to be pretty strong for most of these plants. Flightless houseflies would be a great food for them, crickets would probibly be best fed from a bowl at water level (floating! that would be funny) with their hopper legs nipped so they couldn't get out, otherwise I'd imagine you'd drown most of them.

The alternative would be to have a more "leaf frog" (like RETF) set up with a really large water bowl. Easier to feed out stuff with less drowing, but a little less like what they dealt with in the wild.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

how much did you pay for the hatchet faced tree frogs? he told me they would be hylinobatrichium fleischmanni or hyla punctata and they were all hatchett faced tree frogs.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

*That is what he told me as well. He charged $35 per frog because he said that they were true glass frogs. I also lost all of the hyla punctatas that I purchased from him and he claimed that he did not lose any, which you know has to be a lie on imports. He said that glass frogs are one of the hardiest tree frogs that you can purchase. However, you know that true glass frogs are not very hardy at all. 
Best,
Nick*


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

ya, i even mis id'd them at first, 2 were punctata. how did you set up the hatchett faced treefrogs. i gave them 1/2 a 55 w/ water 1/2 land w/ a lot of vegetation at the edge. the punctata are more like a redeye setup.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

*I would set the punctatas up in a marshy type setup like the hatchet faced tree frogs. They both like high humidity. Be careful with the punctatas. They seem like they are extremely sensitive and need to have high humidity. I don't know if the ones that Tom sent me all had diseases or not, but they all died. By the way, do you have or know of anybody who works with the true glass frogs? 
Best,
Nick *


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I would just set them up with water all on the bottom, and marshy plants for them to hang out in (anubias, water hyacinth, amazon swordplants, etc).


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

^^ Good luck feeding them that way though... :? 

Drowned crickets anyone? :wink:


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Ah true, but you might have better luck feeding them flightless houseflies anyways (great feeder for frogs their size and also great for problem feeders which I imagine they are), which probibly drown less due to their movement habits (not jumping off to kingdom come and drowning like crickets). 

Also I'd recomend feeding crickets in a bowl anyways (hopper legs nipped) so you can not only keep track of how many are being eaten, but make sure all crickets are in easy view (instead of hiding if not eaten quickly). This can be done with a floating bowl or a bowl set into a ring that is suction cupped to the side of the tank.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

*Corey,
I would like to setup a vivarium for my hachet faced tree frogs like you mentioned above, but I am not sure how to do it. I have setup a vivarium for my red eyes, but I know that the hatchets require more humidity. 
Would you mind explaining how to setup a vivarium like that so that I can understand. I am not good with them so please be specific. Thank you for your help! 

Best,
Nick*


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Just take something like a 20H or XH tank, fill with 3-4 inches of water on the bottom. Plop in some floating plants like water lettuce or water hyacinth (can be hard to find this time of year, but spring is coming, they should be easy to find at pond supply places). Other good marshy plants can be found at your local aquarium center but require gravel/aquatic soil for the roots. Sword plants and large anubias love to grow semi-aquatically with their roots in the water, and their leaves emerging from the water, and would compliment the floating plants well (and give the frogs a higher level to hang out in over the water lettuce and hyacinth). Note tho that these are all relatively high light plants, so you will want a good light set up to keep them happy (a couple of really good daylight deluxe tubes or even better, compact flourescents).

A glass lid would keep in the humidity rather well, any variation of a lid like those used for PDFs is fine. A nice heavy mist will help out a lot too, and will allow you a chance to clean the poop off the plants (extremely important to do this regularly, preferably daily with TFs). You can either suction it regularly like a fish tank (especially good with a bare bottomed tank), undergravel filter (only with gravel on the bottom, but not so good with planted tanks), or go the submerged turtle filter route with occassional suction water changes. This set up is also similar to my planned rain chamber set ups - differences are I included a drain in my rainchambers, and any semi-aquatic plants would be potted so I could just unplug the drain and dump all the water at once - also add a rain bar that I would attach to the turtle filter to act as the pump and Bingo! instant rain shower! So when you wanted to breed these guys you wouldn't even have to change the tank lol.

The thicker the plant life, the less likelihood for the food items to fall into the water. I highly recomend the flightless houseflies, and crickets, like mentioned before, should be fed from a bowl either elevated or floating on the surface of the water (with nipped hopper legs). "Bowl training" them with the crickets would get them to look to the bowl for food after a couple of weeks, so you could feed out a wide variety of other foods in there too like pheonix worms, wax worms, silk worms, basically anything that wouldn't crawl out of it (tho I wouldn't recomend mealworms/superworms). A lot of these worms can crawl out of the plastic bowls that would be best for "floating" (handy dandy suction cup feet), but wouldn be less able to crawl out of a glazed ceramic bowl. This is easy fixed by placing a ceramic bowl on top of a brick (or similar flat surface) to hold the lip of the bowl above water level, instead of trying to float it, and is my lazy way of solving the "floating bowl" issue.


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## asturianu (Jul 23, 2005)

*Thank you so much for the help on setting up the tank! I actually think that I might be able to handle setting it up! I have another question though. I know you were saying that using a submerged turtle filter would be the best way to set it up and I want to do it that way. Are there any you would recommend and is there any specific way of setting up those plants you mentioned so that they look like you would find them in nature? What type of substrate should I use? Any type of soil? Thanks again for your help!

Best,
Nick*


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I am personally a fan of the Duetto filters, I've used them on for various applications over the years and was real upset when PetsMart stopped carrying them (I was working there at the time and getting discounts) but HerpSupplies still does. I especially like that there are different "output adapters", one of which is perfect for attaching hose to (for a rainbar type thing, or just to have it come out of some water feature). I simply pull it out of the tank once a week or so, rince the sponge, and replace carbon or whatever cartradriges if I need to. 

The other submersible pump I guess I would recomend is the Fluval 1 Plus, Submersible Power Filter (what PetsMart started to carry instead od the Duettos). I haven't heard a whole lot about them, and haven't use them as I'm sticking with the filter I know I like lol.

With the plants You're probibly better asking an aquarium person like Ghazanfar Ghori, I'll give him a poke and see what he personally recomends to keep these guys happy aquatic soil wise (his aquatic tanks are awesome!). Its not regular soil, but aquatic soil mixes for aquarium plants tend to look like chipped clay peices. The good stuff you'll probibly have to order online, tho I know places like PetsMart carry Seachem Flourite Plant Substrate, but I don't know how good it is.


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## doncoyote (Apr 20, 2005)

Another plant suggestion is spathiphyllum (Peace Lily) I've got 2 growing in 2" of water in my big viv. You can get varities in sizes from dwarf to huge and the leaves (at least of mine) are sturdy enough for small tree frogs to use. They don't need as much light as the swords - mine are thriving under 2 T8s. I've suggested these guys in other threads - don't mean to beat a dead horse - but I'm a big fan...


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Yeah, you just gotta make sure you have the dwarf varieties, tho usually the plants are available in what would pretty much be their full size....

My only issue is that the especially small and handy varieties don't always have leaves nearly as strong as some of the other emergents I mentioned, but it again varies by variety (some have lots of small narrow leaves, others have larger, fewer, sturdier leaves).

Water lettuce is a must tho - Probibly won't grow as big as it would outdoors, but will still do well.


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## phyllomedusa (May 17, 2004)

hatchet faces are a semi aquatic tree-frog. 20xh should be fine but is a bit small for the plants i would try something a bit larger(maybe take a 15 gallonor 20 high and remove the bottom and silicone that to the top of a 20 high). best to provide about a quarter of the tank to be land. figure 3-4 inches(deep) of water minimum(more would be better). good plants would be pothos, philodendrons, apistadora(cast iron plant),some swords etc. Water lettuce needs a LOT of light and i would reccommend java moss and frogbit instead.


Sean


PS. if you have further questions don't hesitate to ask but please give me time to respond( i am working way too many hours lately, Six 12 hour shifts a week, and may take a day to get back to you).


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## dmatychuk (Apr 20, 2005)

Has anyone been able to keep the Hyla punctata alive that has come in from Tom? He had anonther ad on King Snake last week saying he now had the "True Glass Frogs" but when I spoke with him it seemed he only had the same type of frogs as before, did anyone get some? The ad was taken down.


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

From my experience with both species in Southeastern Peru, I disagree with the suggestion that H. punctata is semi-aquatic. The species is arboreal, but only collected (or even seen) in large numbers when breeding at marshy edge habitat. 

S. lacteus on the other hand, is a water lettuce specialist, and are found in matts of vegetation in large, open, bodies of water- in my experience oxbow lakes. Though I have found individuals crossing through the forest, I think they were crossing between more appropriate habitat. To be honest, I'd be surprised if the species can be kept well in captivity without a greenhouse.

The other species of Sphaenorynchus are more poorly known- I have found them in more emergent vegetation than water lettuce. 

Cheers,

Afemoralis


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