# Beware!!!!!!



## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

I have used paypal with no issues even though I have heard about them. Well this time it happened to me and I'm pissed. I let a big chunk of change sit in my paypal account for a lil over a week cause of some purchases Im making. Well I get on today and Im missing $320 dollars!!!! I called paypal, my bank trying to figure where it went. Come to find out one of the guys who bought from me, bank decided to cancel payment on his purchase and I lost my money. Paypal said there is nothing they can do and I already shipped this guys frogs to him. His bank statement for now shows payment too. Paypal and my bank advised me to open a second checking account and Imediatly transfer the money to that account that way the bank still has to pay the money and cant get it back. If you asked me that is [email protected]%ked up!!!! Wanted to pass this along to everyone before it happens to you.


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## GregF (Sep 13, 2009)

Sucks. Sorry...thank you for the tip.


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## cheezus_2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

i've lost money in my Paypal funds too..... that shit sucks.... i only lost 125 though....not quite as bad but still moneys money....


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There are people who use this method to scam items from people.. or they suffer buyer's remorse.. 

Basically it is the reverse of the get the payment never ship scam. 

Ed


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## Zombie Frawg (Aug 31, 2010)

Wow! I had some issues with paypal a bit back but luckily I didn't lose any money. I hope you get it straightened out and thanks for the heads up.


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## Topete (Sep 27, 2009)

i currently run a credit card processing business and unfortunately this is a common occurrence. None the less you are supposed to be notified of the intent to cancel the transaction and they are supposed to give you a time frame to comply as to why the customer should not get their money back. These so called chargebacks are abused and unfortunately paypal sucks and handling them... and don't get me started on AMEX..

is it someone in dendroboard?if so..they should get black listed

i think checks or money orders are better.. plus you don't pay the high percentage fee


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## toxicfrogaddiction (Apr 18, 2009)

rcteem said:


> I have used paypal with no issues even though I have heard about them. Well this time it happened to me and I'm pissed. I let a big chunk of change sit in my paypal account for a lil over a week cause of some purchases Im making. Well I get on today and Im missing $320 dollars!!!! I called paypal, my bank trying to figure where it went. Come to find out one of the guys who bought from me, bank decided to cancel payment on his purchase and I lost my money. Paypal said there is nothing they can do and I already shipped this guys frogs to him. His bank statement for now shows payment too. Paypal and my bank advised me to open a second checking account and Imediatly transfer the money to that account that way the bank still has to pay the money and cant get it back. If you asked me that is [email protected]%ked up!!!! Wanted to pass this along to everyone before it happens to you.


Dude, I know exactly what you mean and I sympathize. Paypal is a SCAM!! I recently was the victim of a buyer chargeback scam (I shipped the item to the buyer, he was happy, gave me rave reviews about the item-then a month or so later out of nowhere there's a credit card chargeback.) Paypal does NOT protect the seller anywhere near enough, if a buyer files a charge back they get to keep your item and paypal expects you to pay them the cost that was charged back (because the CC company takes it from them). It's ridiculous honestly.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Same thing happened to me (by mistake) when an ex-spouse decided that she didn't approve of the purchase. Anyway, it worked out and the person was awesome in sending funds via money order. However, it made me very, very wary of using paypal (over a week after payment, when frogs were shipped, payment disappeared since the person contested) for anything other than payments to and from folks I know personally. In the future, I think I will require either a check or money order from folks that I don't know.


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## InnoEcto (Jun 28, 2009)

Sorry to hear that, Chris.
I agree. Paypal sucks. We've had problems in the past too.
Like it has been stated, they do not protect the seller enough.


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Sorry to hear that Chris.

I love paypal for now, since I've never had this happen yet. I always try to send the funds to my bank asap though.

Thanks for the warning.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Doesn't matter George. That is what I did and they still took the funds. I ended up with a significant paypal debt, which was crazy. If the person hadn't sent me a MO instead I would have had zero recourse through paypal.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Wow that sux, hopefully the person will be cool about it and offer to at least pay you over time in installments or something. If they expect you to eat that money while they enjoy their new frogs that is BS. Maybe if they won't do that they'll ship them back? You may have to pay shipping to get them to do it, but that is better then being out 300+ AND frogs.

On a side note the reverse almost happened to me, well did happen with my first order from one of the popular vendors in the hobby but we fixed it. I accidentally used that card at the store the next day and there weren't enough funds to cover the purchase so I immediately called and told them and gave them new payment info to run, but when it didn't go through and they ran the charge again they didn't use the new payment info I gave them and over-drafted my unemployment credit card by like $70. I was a little scared the state would be like why the hell are you buying plants on that card!!!!  

They shipped the order though and I thought everything was fine but I didn't check the card for awhile and the money actually got refunded back to me and the new payment info still wasn't ran so I basically had the plants for free. Since I got the plants and didn't hear from them I thought everything was fixed but then they called and were like where the heck is the money. So I gave them the payment info again and we finally got it worked out. It was big hassle for both parties. I screwed up using the wrong card and they messed up not running the new payment info I gave them. I think they were afraid I was trying to do to them what happened with you and that guy at first but they were cool and hopefully the fact that I immediately tried to give them new payment info twice when I found out there was a problem proved I wasn't "That guy"  Plants are good, and would definitely order again...if they aren't scared of me now


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

If this person is a DB member are you aloud to leave negative feedback on their profile so anyone looking will know? I would not want to be this persons next victim!


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Chris,

Good thread / warning.

See if you can get a mod to change the title to "Paypal Beware", that will make it much more searchable.

More importantly....

If this person is indeed a DB or other hobby community member OR if we are even likely to come acrosss him/her....please leave Neg Feedback her on iTrader and post a thread over on DFz.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I know you aren't supposed to give feedback here. But maybe you could PM those who are interested this persons name so we can beware. I for one would like to know who it is. Would this still be breaking the rules?
Doug


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

I have talked to the guy and has offered to pay me back, so we will see. I dont know if he is on here yet or not as he is in the fish hobby but will be glad to post his username if I find him on here and if he doesnt pay me back. He is a new person to this hobby - message me for more info if you'd like.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

You can give feedback via the iTrader system - just give them a negative rating, and sum up what happened in the comments. That way, it will be visible to everyone.


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

Allyn Loring said:


> If this person is a DB member are you aloud to leave negative feedback on their profile so anyone looking will know? I would not want to be this persons next victim!





zBrinks said:


> You can give feedback via the iTrader system - just give them a negative rating, and sum up what happened in the comments. That way, it will be visible to everyone.


I think people who get scammed this way owe it to the hobby to name names so please do use the feedback system to note this. I have been accepting large numbers of payments through paypal since 2001 and in my experience Paypal are little short of scum, but unfortunately they are a necessary evil.


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

Ok, I can not post his name on here and he isnt on this forum or any others yet, so I guess I will have to ask everyone on here to email so I can give you his name since I cant do vendor feedback.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

That sucks Chris. I would not back off of this issue. I havent had an issue with Paypal in my tie with them but I may consider seting up a second empty account and just run cc through it. I dont want to risk the money.
I wouldnt leave money in there anymore.

Michael


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

poison beauties said:


> I would not back off of this issue. I havent had an issue with Paypal


In this kind of situation Paypal always makes the "seller" suffer rather than the buyer. Paypal have no recourse with a bank when money is taken back, so they pass the cost on to the seller. I've had this happen a handful of times in the last 9 years. Hence my low opinion of Paypal. They're just a necessary evil but if they were drowning I would throw them an anchor.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

poison beauties said:


> That sucks Chris. I would not back off of this issue. I havent had an issue with Paypal in my tie with them but I may consider seting up a second empty account and just run cc through it. I dont want to risk the money.
> I wouldnt leave money in there anymore.
> 
> Michael


Just to clarify, it doesn't matter if you leave money in the paypal account or not as they will automatically bill your credit card for the deficit, total bs


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## johnc (Oct 9, 2009)

stemcellular said:


> Just to clarify, it doesn't matter if you leave money in the paypal account or not as they will automatically bill your credit card for the deficit, total bs


Ah yes but _that_ you can fight with the credit card company.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

johnc said:


> Ah yes but _that_ you can fight with the credit card company.


That is exactly what I was thinking. Either way we don't keep funds in my paypal but we plan to transfer them to my wife's paypal account and into our bank. That is all her account is for so there is no chance on anyone causing us an issue. My account is for our buisness and we just keep the CreditCards on there for our purchasing.

Like I said Ive never had an issue with Paypal but I will watch out.

Michael


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?...tent_ID=security/seller_protection_learn_more


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

rcteem said:


> Ok, I can not post his name on here and he isnt on this forum or any others yet, so I guess I will have to ask everyone on here to email so I can give you his name since I cant do vendor feedback.


Chris,
Are you coming to my place next week for the MADS meeting? We can swap Paypal horror stories and exchange names without issue...
Scott


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## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I've been using Paypal for about 10 yrs now and fortunately have never had a problem. However I am very cautious with them. I never keep a balance larger than $50 and I canceled the CC backing up the account. I use a bank account instead. I xfer money into the PP account as needed from the "holding" account. I also keep a minimum, near zero balance in that bank/holding account. Electronic transfers between bank accounts are instantaneous as they are within the same bank. Managing the 3-5day transfer time to the Paypal account just takes some planning and patience. 

The whole charge back thing is just way too scary and bad people abuse it. One needs to do whatever they can to limit their exposure.


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## toxicfrogaddiction (Apr 18, 2009)

Here are some interesting horror story sites on paypal if you ever want to scare yourself to death of using it or you're just bored..
PayPal - Horror Stories, Lawsuits, PayPal Problems & Information - PayPal Account
PayPal Horror Stories
Horror Stories: PayPal Did it!


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

SMenigoz said:


> Chris,
> Are you coming to my place next week for the MADS meeting? We can swap Paypal horror stories and exchange names without issue...
> Scott


Sounds good...I will be glad to share the info there next week


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

legionofthederanged said:


> Here are some interesting horror story sites on paypal if you ever want to scare yourself to death of using it or you're just bored..


Heh heh, I'm not alone!
Does anyone have story where, as a SELLER, you were successful in arguing a dispute by a Purchaser?


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

SMenigoz said:


> Heh heh, I'm not alone!
> Does anyone have story where, as a SELLER, you were successful in arguing a dispute by a Purchaser?



From what I read, if the seller shows proof of delivery PayPal will side with them. I have read quite a few stories where the buyer would recieve an empty box, or something else and the seller showed proof of delivery. The buyer was pretty much screwed.


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## Topete (Sep 27, 2009)

a great protection from this is to make the buyer sign a purchase order (if not know or dealing for the first time) This is what i do on the business i run. The purchase order is something like a small contract and you can tailor it to your needs, also if the customer decides to not buy the frogs after all you can even get compensated for holding them (personal choice). Again, i do this on my day to day business due to the volume, none the less it is a great defense against chargeback and non paying customers, this just may work in the hobby as well.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Topete said:


> a great protection from this is to make the buyer sign a purchase order (if not know or dealing for the first time) This is what i do on the business i run. The purchase order is something like a small contract and you can tailor it to your needs, also if the customer decides to not buy the frogs after all you can even get compensated for holding them (personal choice). Again, i do this on my day to day business due to the volume, none the less it is a great defense against chargeback and non paying customers, this just may work in the hobby as well.


Hi Julio,

is there some standardized form people can look at or do these need to be customized? Do you have any examples you would like to share?

Ed


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

Maybe if more vendors used Google Checkout instead of PayPal, things like this might not happen as often. I'm sorry you got scammed, Chris. I don't sell things to new users btw... I always look for reputation first. Many users will get on somewhere and make a new acct. just to scam others. 

Give the buyer a *deadline* for when to pay you back...and if they aren't prompt about it, file a complaint with PayPal and your credit card company, or you can file a case with a collections agency if you are able.


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## Topete (Sep 27, 2009)

this is a example, note that the text has to be modified based on your terms and business type, My lawyer reviewed this form before i started using it.

you can modify you payment terms to fit your need, we require a 50% down payment (non refundable) which means that not even a chargeback can take it back once the form is signed. (note we usually require a copy of the ID to verify signature.) if you guys want a more legible example feel free to pm me.


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

rcteem said:


> I have used paypal with no issues even though I have heard about them. Well this time it happened to me and I'm pissed. I let a big chunk of change sit in my paypal account for a lil over a week cause of some purchases Im making. Well I get on today and Im missing $320 dollars!!!! I called paypal, my bank trying to figure where it went. Come to find out one of the guys who bought from me, bank decided to cancel payment on his purchase and I lost my money. Paypal said there is nothing they can do and I already shipped this guys frogs to him. His bank statement for now shows payment too. Paypal and my bank advised me to open a second checking account and Imediatly transfer the money to that account that way the bank still has to pay the money and cant get it back. If you asked me that is [email protected]%ked up!!!! Wanted to pass this along to everyone before it happens to you.



sometimes if you have a verified acount with paypal even if you transfer the fund out into your bank account by becomming verified and you actually agree to let them go in and take it out of the acount. this normally happens when someone might open a case vs you. i had this happen to me once for some geckos where i shipped them and the guy reported he never got them and the mail man said he left it in the hallway in front of his door ect.. just becareful in general and check for feedback on the person.


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