# Protozoa, roundworms, pinworms, oh my



## macg (Apr 19, 2018)

I've been thinking about getting some more frogs, so I decided to get the only 3 frogs I currently have (D. auratus) fecal tested. They have never been tested before, are active and breeding, and I figure it's a good idea to do so before I introduce other species to my collection. I'd rather not spread disease. 

Turns out it was a good idea. The vet said they found protozoa, roundworms, and pinworms (possibly something else, I'll find out at the vet tomorrow). 

So, I have a couple questions from this:
1) I assume what they found is actually a problem. Is this correct? (This may sound like a dumb question, but the one time I don't ask, I will wish I did.)
2) What is the real probability of eliminating these issues long term with these frogs?
3) What steps must be taken to ensure that these issues are eliminated from all of my vivarium materials (i.e. current plants, extra plants, tanks, fittings, pumps, etc. All of it.)
4) Assuming I get clean, healthy frogs in the future, how do I ensure this does not happen again?

Thanks folks.


----------



## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

There are acceptable loads of some guys and commensal allowances of protozoans according to respectable sources but theres a panoramic quandary in your appeal I think to be practical would be to examine their findings, and see how you feel about the exchange with the doc, what options is he explaining. Is it perfunctory, or confident, engaged?

Does a second opinion strike a note somehow, whether or not it's feasible? 

As for starting all over, in an epic prophylaxis, Ive done that too, a disaster averted is never proven nor awarded but the peace of mind can be worth it. However still, where there is warmth, moisture, nourishment, and a carnival of lush organic interactions there is only so much we can try to control

As time went on case by case became my director and just aiming to keep everybody strong and in good setting


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

1, 2 and 3:

On protozoa and pinworms:
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/g...-treatment/89712-should-pinworms-treated.html
On nematodes (various genera):
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/g...921-rhabdia-nematode-infection-treatment.html
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/g...e-transmission-split-mixing-discussion-2.html
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/24598-darts-w-parasites.html

Sounds from these threads much like I've experienced in other animals (reptiles and mammals): protozoans and pinworms are bad if they overrun the host but are typically tolerated without issue; roundworms can range from a mild nuisance to deadly depending on species. 

4: QT and fecal test before introduction into display viv.

If these are the auratus you've had for two years, I personally wouldn't get too worked up over the fecal findings -- apparently, they've been living well with these hitchhikers for years. If it were me, I'd consider trying to knock out the nematodes, only because I'd suppose it wouldn't be too difficult to do.


----------



## macg (Apr 19, 2018)

That's good info. My tendency is the same as yours. If they are acting healthy, I'm not particularly inclined to disrupt their lives with a medication regime and potentially cause a problem through stress. 

We'll see what the vet says, I'll finish my research with that in mind, and make a decision. 

I'll let you know what they say. Many thanks.


----------



## macg (Apr 19, 2018)

The vet said the frogs looked great (skin, eyes, mouth, activity). She clarified that the only things found in the sample were protozoa (which she deemed not a problem), and some round worms and eggs. She initially prescribed an oral medication for the nematodes, but I asked two questions:

1) If they look healthy, is it worth putting them through the stress of oral dosing, risking immunosuppression and producing a problem where one didn't exist.
2) If we oral dose, will the frogs pick the infection up from the surrounding environs of their tank again.

She thought both were great questions, and asked for me to wait in the exam room while she researched the species of nematode, and how it can survive in the surrounding environment. 

She returned, and informed me that she looked at the fecal exam herself (rather than the report from the person who did the exam), and found that the number of nematode artifacts was greatly exaggerated. She said barely any eggs or adults were found. As a result, she rescinded her recommendation of medication and recommended that I just keep an eye on them. She said it may be worth removing feces for a little while, but I suggested I just flush the tank with more misting for a time and change the water a bit more frequently. We agreed that was a good idea. 

*Conclusion:* Frogs go back in the tank, and I increase misting frequency to increase water changes. I'm sure they will be happy about that. Otherwise, continue watching them thrive.

I realize there were some miscommunications at the vet, and she initially wasn't right about the best course of action; however, I understand the challenges she faced. 

From an operational standpoint, they were slammed after the holiday, and she should have verified the findings herself. I'm sure she learned a lesson from it. Moreover, vets, especially exotic vets, are tasked with caring for massive numbers of species. Human medicine requires training for years, and that's a single species. The fact that she listened to me and altered her course of action based on my feedback is what made the difference.


----------



## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

macg said:


> The fact that she listened to me and altered her course of action based on my feedback is what made the difference.


And the fact that you did some research and had something informed to contribute. 

I'm glad things turned out well, and I'm glad you've found such a decent vet!


----------



## Ravage (Feb 5, 2016)

I concur, you've found a great Vet there. It can be tough to be thorough and second check your results when time is limited and the workloads are heavy: which is pretty much the job description of a Veterinarian.
All of us carbon units evolved and thrived with varying levels of parasitism, some immune functions might work better with a bit of a pest load I've read. Great, now someone's going to want a citation, I'll see if i can dig one up.
Anyway, happy your frogs are happy and we all got to learn something from your experience.


----------

