# Keeping thumbs species.



## Arrowb (Jul 16, 2008)

Hi,

I have R. laamasi and I want to keep with them another thumbs in one tank. Which species can I add to this tank.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

search mixing before you ask. mixing is very heavily frowned upon in this hobby. if you search you will find many very valid reasons why mixing is a bad idea.


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## Nate (Jan 5, 2009)

Arrowb said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have R. laamasi and I want to keep with them another thumbs in one tank. Which species can I add to this tank.


The answer almost everyone here will give you, none!


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## crw.dft (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm not going to say anything except you're opening a can of worms with this one.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

SORRY

Thats almost funny. My wife and I bought 3 different species of mantellas not knowing this would be a problem at all! ( look at the cute little frogs ) WELL we have gone from 1 tank to 5 tanks since Chistmas. Everyone we talk to now and all the research we've done says DON"T DO IT! Well we want our frogs to be healthy so we now have 5 tanks. LIVE AND LEARN.

Laura & Glenn


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## vartz04 (Mar 1, 2009)

Yeah do another tank, a 10 vert cost is less than 20 to build it, (minus deco) and you can have happy frogs. I have a 37 gallon I am selling if you are interested not sure where youare from


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## Arrowb (Jul 16, 2008)

Hi,

I want species that do not mix. 

I just want have another thumbs with laamasi. 

I know that i can't keep together frogs from ventrimaculata groups.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

it isnt just hybridizing thats a problem. they can also harm eachother and kill eachother. another problem is the spread of parasites and disease. if you want your frogs to be healthy then dont mix them.


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## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

Peace said:


> The answer almost everyone here will give you, none!


Actually according to this poll a greater ratio of board members say it is indeed ok to mix so long as you put the right two species together:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/9709-mixed-tank-verdict.html

I had a mixed tank when I first got in the hobby. I now have the frogs in separate tanks and they behave the exact same as when they lived together. All frogs were and are very bold.

If you do decide to do it keep in consideration the micro niches the frogs will be most comfortable in and select species that would minimally interact i.e. vents with tincs. Go with the biggest tank you can afford to give them the most space possible, heavy planting, lots of leaf litter and hiding spots along with ample food and they could cohabit as pets. Mine even bred with out problems while in the same tank. Good luck!


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

How big is the tank?


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

> Actually according to this poll a greater ratio of board members say it is indeed ok to mix so long as you put the right two species together:
> 
> The Mixed Tank Verdict


i would like to say the majority of experienced keepers would say no. i wasn't real happy with that post as to many new people with little to no experience were voting yes, definitely read the post not just look at the results of the pole. i vote nay all the way with mixing but if its done it should absolutely be done by an experienced keeper. some times the signs of stress can be very subtle and hard to recognize if you don't know exactly what you are looking for. i too had a mixed tank when i started and since learning what i know now Ive never looked back. i just don't see the point. i would love to hear one?


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## mayadam (Dec 22, 2008)

Arrow, like me, is from Poland. I think he didn't say what exactly he wanted to say. In Poland this hobby is new. There is only few people who have experience in keeping frogs. Beginners are confused becouse there is no informations about it. On polish forum there was a question if in one tank with d.lamasi we can keep d.imitator or another thumbnails frogs. Nobody said about conditions in tank. I think it's very important as the case of mixing thumbnail frogs. 
I'm the begginer. But my teacher is person who have frogs from since 1991. All my knowledge is from him. Before he start to talk about having frogs he told me that the most important thing is to give them the best conditions in tank. The person who asked about mixing on polish site have 20 gal tank and have in it d.lamasi, leuko and tingtorius. I don't remember how many exactly but I know that he doesn't have multiple calling levels for males. I think that the biggest problem is the size of the tank and conditions to no stres live for frogs.
My tank is 270 gal (photo numer 1). Now I have Epipedobates tricolor and I'm still learning. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me.../37387-new-270-gal-paludarium.html#post333280
Two first pictures are from my teacher. He have about 650 gal. In this tank he have a couples (male and female): DENDROBATES LAMASI, DENDROBATES AMAZONICUS, DENDROBATES PUMILIO, EPIPEDOBATES TRICOLOR, DENDROBATES LEUCOMELAS, DENDROBATES AURATUS. From all this frogs he have offspring, and the young frogs are healtly and bold. Frogs have space, the tank is heavy planting, have lots of leaf litter and hiding spots. Frogs doesn't mix.
First and most important things are best conditions for frogs to make them to not harm each other.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

> Two first pictures are from my teacher. He have about 650 gal. In this tank he have a couples (male and female): DENDROBATES LAMASI, DENDROBATES AMAZONICUS, DENDROBATES PUMILIO, EPIPEDOBATES TRICOLOR, DENDROBATES LEUCOMELAS, DENDROBATES AURATUS. From all this frogs he have offspring, and the young frogs are healtly and bold. Frogs have space, the tank is heavy planting, have lots of leaf litter and hiding spots. Frogs doesn't mix.


regardless of size frogs that can more than likely will mix. there is no real way of preventing this in captivity. its not possible to have a large enough tanks to replicate the wild. in the wild there are hundreds of miles to roam even in a 1000gal tank frogs will inevitably come in contact with each other. which is especially bad if those frogs come from different parts of the world. if the species were chosen around not being able to hybridize chances are you could make each comfortable without any added stress. but if they can mix there will always a possibility of doing so. point blank the best way to prevent this is single species tanks. the list of frogs above has a few that can absolutely mix. leucs and auratus have been crossed before. here in America there are allot of people doing there best to minimize any hybrids from entering the hobby. you came to a very good place to learn the best ways to keep and breed darts with best success.


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## mayadam (Dec 22, 2008)

My friend having frogs until 90s. They never got mixed. We don't want to this happend, just like you. It's only about information. Thanks for your answer.
http://www.orinoko.biz/galeria/terrarium2008/index.html
http://www.orinoko.biz/galeria/nowe terrarium/index.html


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

Photo #18 is why we don't encourage mixing. Those frogs don't look stress free. It looks like three different frogs (G&B auratus, B&B autatus and leuc) wrestling in that photo.

galeria/terrarium2008/18


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## boogsawaste (Jun 28, 2008)

That corner tank is INSANE! I would love to have something that size one day. So much fun to work with.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

afterdark said:


> Photo #18 is why we don't encourage mixing. Those frogs don't look stress free. It looks like three different frogs (G&B auratus, B&B autatus and leuc) wrestling in that photo.
> 
> galeria/terrarium2008/18


 
agreed and i cant help but think how would you really even know if the different auratus morphs were mixing. chances are the offspring would look like just one or the other. also I'm not to terribly familiar on leuc morphs but i haven't seen one with that type of white outline before.

pic number 41 is another prime example of why mix tanks are a bad idea.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I don't disagree that a person with a lot of experience _can_ have success with a mixed tank, but my question is simply: if you are really committed to pure bloodlines, why would you even take a _chance_?

Also, I've heard of a few people who _do_ decide to try mixed tanks, which done under the right circumstances is cool I guess (although still not something I'm sure I'll condone), but even with those mixed tanks it'll be genus dendrobates mixed with genus epipedobates or something like that. This is simply to decrease the probability that they will be capable of interbreeding (my understanding is different genuses have difficulty interbreeding (although I understand this is not to say it's impossible)). When I saw the list that are contained in that single tank my reaction was simple: DANG! So many things that could go wrong!

While I must admit I find the potential to see a variety of frogs in a single enclosure undoubtedly cool, I just don't want to take the risk... don't suspect I ever will.

That's my two cents anyway....


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

> I don't disagree that a person with a lot of experience _can_ have success with a mixed tank, but my question is simply: if you are really committed to pure bloodlines, why would you even take a _chance_?


i couldn't agree more Ive been asking for one good reason to make a mixed tank for a long time but have never gotten a legitimate response. go figure.


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