# 3D Printing Terrarium Kits



## konton

For a long time I have been wanting a way to build better terrariums for dart frogs. After spending months trying to make it happen, I finally got the machine built and tested today. It still needs a bit more calibration to flatten the printer bed, but here she is.










The machine is designed for a print space of 30"x13"x4" That's just enough to print faces for 10, 20L, and 20H aquariums to turn them into terrariums.

I'd love to say I can print a face tonight and know for sure, but the build area required is 240mm by 490mm to fit a 10 gallon. I can do the 490mm no problem, but the machine bed sags a bit and can only make it to about 170mm with no problems. Hopefully next week I'll have time to resolve the issue. Once I do I plan to not only print a face for a terrarium, but light housing, false bottom, and even a background. 

I'm planning to print with PLA, which biodegrades leeching only naturally occurring chemicals (It's made from corn starch). However, I've tested a rubber coating which I'll use for the inside. This will waterproof it for the long haul.

I'd love to hear any thoughts as I get this machine finished and 10 gallon terrarium faces out by end of the month. I'm out of town this week, but next week I should have prototypes printed.

Jae Le


----------



## JPccusa

Forgive my ignorance, but are you printing the corners of the viv, or what would be the glass? If the latter, how transparent is the printed material and how long would it last, being biodegradable and all?


----------



## konton

No problem. Here was an earlier prototype I was working on this summer. I was limited in the design due to the size of my printer. 





Jae Le


----------



## mongo77

That looks impressive! I wish you the best of luck.


----------



## FroggyKnight

That is totally awesome! The FrogFace seems like it works much better than the traditional glass and screen frame type conversion kits and I would love to try one. 

It takes the best qualities of both a conversion kit and an exo terra 

John


----------



## jarteta97

You could make so much money off of this! I'm thinking start up business??


----------



## jpstod

Love the Looks of the Front...Any Updates on the Larger one yet?


----------



## whitethumb

I love it.... An all black version would be awesome.


----------



## Mohlerbear

Dude. I want this. Make me some and I'll pay you! Braap!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BrainBug

Very nice. Quite futuristic looking if you ask me. I'd love to pick up a few of each size you will be making.

What's the retail price of these going to be?


----------



## konton

Hey everyone. I'm in San Francisco at the moment. But once I'm back in Detroit, I'll be fixing my bed leveling issues and working on my 10 gallon prototypes. Some thought on these.

1. Prototypes are still going to require you to have a 3"x10" piece of glass placed inside the tank. However, the new frame will completely cover the front of the tank.

2. Due to concerns of frogs somehow kicking doors open (and I still don't get how an imitator could do that), I'll remove the magnets, and have a physical latch in front of each door. I'm sad about this cause I really like magnets.

3. Screens will be printed in 3d plastic so you don't need the metal mesh. I have tested the spacing with fruit flies and was happy with the result.









4. Yes, all black. Prototypes will be in all black. When I was first testing it was all in black:





5. Larger sizes will come later. I was testing using older all glass methods of doing a conversion kit for a 20 gallon long, but wasn't happy.





The new printer will let me make a nice system both horizontal and vertical. I'm still working on the best design.

7. When I am ready for printing a batch and cutting all the 1/8" glass for the doors, I'll let everyone know. The first round of FrogFaces will be for beta testers. I'll probably keep the price down to the same as standard conversion kits, but with free shipping.

8. After the first round of testers I'll be making these custom. That means you can pick colors, and also add text. So if you want the frog type listed on the tanks, I'll print it as such in the font you want.

I'd love design comments. Personally, I'm not a fan of the double doors, but people seem to like them. I'm a fan of one door I almost never open, and a feeding hole designed into the top to drop fruit flies through on a regular basis. If I had a feeding hole, and automated misting on all my tanks, I'd probably only open the fronts once a month for trimming and tad pulling. 

Jae Le


----------



## Mohlerbear

I'm digging it man. Subscribed and looking forward to buying some of these from ya. I'm a one door guy too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bsr8129

I would keep the magnets, I use magnets on several of my tank, somewhat similar to yours, and there is no way a frog, especially a imitator is going to kick open the door. I have use magnets on my vittatus viv and they have yet to figure out how to open the doors.


----------



## wyosilers

I just picked up 2 of the petco Tetra 20H tanks for vert builds. I would love to beta test these and am particularly interested in the single door version.


----------



## Mohlerbear

Agreed! Keep the magnets. No way they kick those open. And yeah bro, are you going to dabble with the 20H? I just bought two also, for vert purposes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FroggyKnight

When you say that it will still require a 10"x3" piece of glass inside the tank, what do you mean? 

Any estimate on the price of a unit once its been finalized? I'm pretty sure just about everyone is willing to try it out, including me

John


----------



## ecichlid

Keep the magnets! Don't listen to the masses, do what you know is right and the sheep will follow. The argument against magnets is ridiculous.


----------



## FroggyKnight

Keep the magnets!! If you want to add a latch as well, go ahead, but don't take off the magnets, they belong there!

John


----------



## whitethumb

I vote keep the magnets!!!! Subscribed.


----------



## Mohlerbear

Magnets all day!!! Braaap!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kas

Amazing! Please keep everyone informed and updated as to design, cost, etc.
Good luck!


----------



## Kdog420000

Another for Magnets!


----------



## Bryanmc1988

i think its a good idea to keep the magnets and if u can some how coat the plastic over the magnets thats inside the vivarium it would keep the magnets from rusting up just my 2 cents


----------



## Wusserton

I would say as long as the magnets are strong enough there is no way a frog could kick it open, aside from that some sort of locking mechanism might be nice, I have a 4 year old daughter that always wants to "help" lol make it lockable! great job though, if you iron it out I will definitely purchase a few of those!


----------



## konton

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Okay, I like the magnets too. So they stay. I just got back and managed to get the printer calibrated enough for a 20x10 tank with no extra glass. Assuming the rubber coating works out there should be no need for glass. The rubber coating will replacing the previous glass in the video that was at the bottom, and cover the magnets so they don't rust. This should also remove the need for the internal pressure supports.

I really do want to review from scratch my design though. But this will be my test print in the morning. 










I've got a bunch of froglets that need new homes, so I'll put the test to good use. All in black . . . for now. 

Jae Le


----------



## Dendro Dave

Very nice work... sign me up as a beta tester 

Have you considered making a single door style? I personally liked zoomeds single door look over exoterras double door, especially on a skinny viv. Instead of that domed section at the top/bottom you could have 2 lil unobtrusive areas in the top/bottom corners where the magnets hold it shut.

Also instead of the circular vents, is it possible to do 1 rectangular vent over the area where the 5 vents are? I bet you could do it so the vent height is roughly half the diameter of the circle vents, and still get roughly the same ventilation because you're opening up the space between the vents, then that would increase viewable area.


A cleaner 3d printed version of something like this, ( I made this quick and dirty a long time ago.)...

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...c-filter-foam-fans-vents-ff-lids-etc-etc.html

Instead of 3d printing such a fine mesh, you could use something like that foam and just have a few supports/contact points where the foam attaches to the vent frame. Its ff proof and allows quite a bit of air to pass. Might have even be mite proof but don't quote me on that.

Oh you could make the top vent rectangular but have a small circle vent on each side that could be popped out for a misting nozzle or two, and/or wiring for waterfall pump or FX lights, plumbing, or duct work for some kinda fan setup.

You could also print a box with intake and output duct work that a small fan could set in with the ducting attaching to one of the circular vents at top (or make the vent square if that helps), so basically the fan would sit outside the vivs on top or side but would only draw in and recirculate air from inside the viv.

Here is a very quick and dirty sketch of what I'm talking about...










Sorry for the crap hand writing. The top vent area could probably be smaller then in the pic, and the bottom area might not be big enough as drawn, but maybe by doing rectangular vents you could use more of the horizontal area instead of vertical for better view. Basically I really like what you've done, I would just try to maximize viewing area. That is my complaint about most vert inserts I've seen, they sacrifice more view area then is needed (IMO).


----------



## Mohlerbear

I'll pay you to test them on 10 verts or 20H verts 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dave.razzi

I'm starting a 40 vertical tank this would make it complete!!! Please let me know if it would be possible to get that big


----------



## JoshuaB

I'm with Dave... 40g tall is on my build list.


----------



## Wusserton

Yeah I recently built a 20h and its kind of a pain to deal with, I like the vert Idea for 20L or 10's, especially because 10's are so damn cheap you can almost buy a dozen for $150 lol


----------



## FroggyKnight

I like dendro dave's ideas, but I wouldn't complain if the current plan didn't change at all

Oh, and dendro dave, your handwriting is identical to mine. Its kinda creepy 

John


----------



## whitethumb

Love it, i need one for my rio broncos 20 gallon tall viv


konton said:


>


----------



## JMims

This is an awesome concept! I have a few 20H and 10 gallons im going to save for these! Keep up the good work.


----------



## jimmy rustles

probably not a big problem for dart frogs, but if the mesh is out of plastic and someone was to keep other animals in there, ive heard that (smaller) crickets and other feeders might be able to bite their way through synthetic fly screen rapidly. Dunno if thats a problem or not, but if the target group is more than just darts maybe you could print a frame for stainless steel or aluminium fly screen.


----------



## Philsuma

I've seen a lot of different vert kits over the years.

I like the magnets but I also like the single door kits.

I feel you will sell a lot more with a single door design.


----------



## infamousnoble

I know I'm a new guy in this hobby but so far this looks like the nicest and easiest conversion around. Not to mention one of the only ones that doesn't look like crap or its gonna fall apart. And from what I've seen converting it back or taking it apart for repairs looks a lot easier.


----------



## konton

Thanks for the feedback. I'm sorry to say I can only do 10 and 20 gallon at the moment. If this initial design goes well I'll probably look into the cost of nylon injection molds and building a 48" prototyping system. But it took me 2 months to build this one and I still don't have it prefect!

So many people responded to Dave's post, I'll answer his ideas to everyone.



Dendro Dave said:


> Have you considered making a single door style?


Yep! It was my first design. But I did a poll and the majority of people wanted a two door design. I kept saying it would cut the view in half, but most didn't care. I was kinda surprised, since it would be a nicer viewing area and easier to make sure fruit flies didn't get out. Maybe I need to take another vote.



Dendro Dave said:


> Also instead of the circular vents, is it possible to do 1 rectangular vent over the area where the 5 vents are?


I decided on the 5 circular vents because 1) It's easier to pop in metal vents than gluing a square mesh 2) I could pop the middle one out and easily add a misting head, and 3) the spacing between the vents added to overall structural integrity. 

Part of it also has to do with how a 3d printer works. Injection molds would make your design easier to accomplish. 



Dendro Dave said:


> You could also print a box with intake and output duct work that a small fan could set in with the ducting attaching to one of the circular vents at top


Agreed. I would also like to add some type of feeding hole. So you could easily drop in ff from the top without opening the doors 3x a week. However, I didn't want to overcomplicate things right from the start. Otherwise you'd see some of my more crazy designs.



Dendro Dave said:


> I would just try to maximize viewing area.


I wanted to follow the golden ratio for a perfect viewing window. 1:1.61803398875. Roughly that's 9" x 14.5" My second concern was enough space at the bottom for substrate and false bottom. I think 3.5" is enough. But I also know people like top and bottom vents. So do I. leaving me about 1.5" for that. And remember I still have to consider the lip on the aquarium and the lip around my own glass door.

All that being said, I'll review the design and see what improvements can be made. 

Jae Le


----------



## Wusserton

How much do you guys pay for the glass on the bottom substrate area? I was at the pet store earlier and a 2.5 gallon all glass lid fit the spacing of a 10 gal perfectly and is roughly 5 1/2" x 10" for something like $6, my only concern is how thin the glass is at around 1/8" but Im sure its tempered ...still just curious more than anything, I haven't built a vert yet but am interested. Earlier I posted that I recently did a 20H but I lied on accident, its a 20X lol my frogs only utilize the bottom half of the tank and the height is more for foliage. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## JJuchems

I want! I liked them since I saw the video on Facebook.


----------



## Dendro Dave

New poll  I could see doing double doors if a 10 or 20 were on it side, but 10-20 verts are just so skinny to have a seam blocking the view. Make both, give everyone their cake 

BTW another variation on your kits that you could do is to make horizontal front opening 10-20gals. Itwould be pretty cool for those tha didnt want a vert but do want front opening vivs.

And for the top open crowd who likes to slide tanks into shelves, do lid that opens one end with built in vent, misting hole and a section in the back for cords to exit.


For your feeder door idea, how about a pop out shute like how a Mortons salt canister opens. Pour flies in then snap it shut catapulting them into the viv 

Oh another feature you could add if the bottom part is going to be plastic is a drainage/overflow bulkhead.

Anyways great work, can't wait to see what's next


----------



## whitethumb

I vote for a single swinging door


----------



## epiphytes etc.

I really like your overall design, and would be interested in a horizontal model for a 40b.


----------



## konton

Here is a slight re-design to be printed in all black. Not as great of symmetry, but:

1. Single door.
2. Triple hinges for safety.
3. 4 magnets on glass corners for tighter seal.
4. Added 4 more vents for air-flow.
5. Created a small 1/4 drillable port at the bottom, should someone wants to add drainage.










Jae Le


----------



## infamousnoble

I would gladly pay/test any design you want to try out


----------



## Dendro Dave

I'd buy it  

It would be cool if you could print a few out in the glowing plastic but I'm not sure how suitable that stuff would be compared to what you are using.

How about spraying down the inside with this for moonlight 

Blue please...
https://www.dipyourcar.com/Plasti-D...LEbf-QEQyTvRNKiIYGOPuzNn1lCWWOy2pzRoCyPTw_wcB


----------



## FroggyKnight

I would buy either the single or double door design, but I really think two doors are the way to go for any tank over 18" wide. Anything smaller and a single door is my preference.

John


----------



## whitethumb

I would totally buy one. If i could just make a request on mine. I would just want one vent at the bottom with a single swinging door. This looks awesome


----------



## gdebell

Have you considered how to make a top for people who didn't want a vert or a horizontal? Such as just a regular tank sitting the way it was designed with a lid on it? I suppose you could just do the single door design, but I would want the vents to be toward the front glass so it helps clear up any fogging. Just an idea. Feel free to tell me to shut up. Either way this seems like a great project so kudo's to you. I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


----------



## konton

Dendro Dave said:


> It would be cool if you could print a few out in the glowing plastic


Dave! You know I'm using that stuff to spray down the inside. It actually adheres to the plastic really well. But I can leave it up coated, and you can spray it yourself. Just remember, this is what keeps it waterproof. So spray well! Or else you will need a small piece of glass at the bottom to make sure water stays in the tank.



gdebell said:


> Have you considered how to make a top for people who didn't want a vert or a horizontal?


Can you make a diagram? I'm not against coming up with other enclosure designs, but you have to start someone.

Last night was a bad night. Lots of bad prints. So bad the bed ripped off and the temp meter broke off. Keep it mind it takes about 6 hours to print one. Took a few hours of rebuilding this morning. Today's printing is going well so far.



















As you can see, close-up these have a more rugged look to them. Almost weaved together. We'll see how this one turns out.

Jae Le


----------



## Baltimore Bryan

This is pretty awesome, never thought of doing that. I actually have access to some 3D printers so I may have to try something. About how much material (in cm^3 or in^3) are you using for each print for either a 10 or 20 gallon high?
Keep it up it looks very good so far!
Thanks,
Bryan


----------



## Dendro Dave

Any problem spraying a glow coat over your coat? 

I am still curious to get your opinion (because you know way more about this then i do), on how thesible it would be to print one in the glowing plastic available for 3d printers? 

P.s. I liked.your post but sorry to here about the setback


----------



## konton

Baltimore Bryan said:


> About how much material (in cm^3 or in^3) are you using for each print for either a 10 or 20 gallon high?


Well, an opening for a 10 gallon is 241mm by 492mm. my settings are 6mm in width, but I'm considering lowering it to 5mm and the center is empty. So honestly I don't know. I've put and continue to put quite a bit of money into the development of the machine and all the build materials. I think I'm almost in the 10's of thousands. But hey, it's a fledgeling business, right?



Dendro Dave said:


> Any problem spraying a glow coat over your coat?


My guess it's like two layers of paint in which neither are primers. I wouldn't recommend it.



Dendro Dave said:


> I am still curious to get your opinion (because you know way more about this then i do), on how thesible it would be to print one in the glowing plastic available for 3d printers?


Easy. Glow in The Dark PLA Plastic Filament 1.75mm 307751 - Micro Center

I'm sorry to say the printing is not. 5.5 hours this happened.









Oh well. I'm actually reconsidering those holes and making two squares. That bottom is VERY sturdy. I didn't think it would be. 

Jae Le


----------



## james67

Is this full resolution on the printer or are you doing low-res mock ups?

James


----------



## gdebell

Here's a diagram about what i was talking about. You would just put it right on top of an aquarium like a hood. On a side note. I am sorry it's so crappy. I have no skillz.


----------



## konton

james67 said:


> Is this full resolution on the printer or are you doing low-res mock ups?
> 
> James


Give me example of what you think full resolution is vs. low-resolution in 3d printing terms. I'm using a All-metal E3D (v6) Hotend with a .5mm extruder nozzle.

Jae Le


----------



## konton

gdebell said:


> Here's a diagram about what i was talking about. You would just put it right on top of an aquarium like a hood. On a side note. I am sorry it's so crappy. I have no skillz.


It works. Explains what you want. It's certainly something I've considered doing. But right now I need to get my first design off the ground. Then I'll focus on the next. Also, there so much glass in that, I'd think more about just getting glass to cover the entire top and drill vents in it.

Jae Le


----------



## ecichlid

Would you consider something much smaller and simpler to help fund your project? All I want is a spacer that I can put between fly cultures when stacked. This way the vents are not blocked. Perhaps there are others who would want this. Maybe it's a stupid idea.


----------



## FroggyKnight

ecichlid said:


> Would you consider something much smaller and simpler to help fund your project? All I want is a spacer that I can put between fly cultures when stacked. This way the vents are not blocked. Perhaps there are others who would want this. Maybe it's a stupid idea.


Not a stupid idea at all, especially if your fruit flies are in view of any frog room visitors. Might as well make it look nice

John


----------



## ecichlid

I do it for the sake of space. I like to stack them 3 high. The bottom of each stack sits in a Petri dish which is resting in a large tin foil casserole pan that has diatomaceous earth.


----------



## FroggyKnight

If space is your only concern, I have stuck pieces of scrap 2x4s between cultures and its worked pretty well anything that could act as a spacer will work, really. My setup isn't the prettiest thing, though 

John


----------



## ecichlid

Think of the little plastic ring with an upper rim to hold the cup above it and with posts on the bottom. Maybe only a quarter inch high. Just enough to allow air to circulate between cups.


----------



## konton

ecichlid said:


> Would you consider something much smaller and simpler to help fund your project? All I want is a spacer that I can put between fly cultures when stacked. This way the vents are not blocked. Perhaps there are others who would want this. Maybe it's a stupid idea.


Interesting idea. Got any visual design specs? I'm not against it. I'm just busy with this first working 10g build. I'm open to using the equipment to make whatever people need.

After three bad builds I decided to go back and re-evaluate my design plans and check the specs on components such as hinges and latches. Today my focus was on printing vents. It took me a while to size them and test the sizing. But this morning I came up with this:










Then after a test print (which takes almost 2 hours) here was my result:










Not bad. I tossed on some fruit flies to verify the vent sizes were okay.










I'll probably add an optional framed hole right in the middle to stick 1/4" hose through for misting. Then you can get a rubber ring and use the bulkhead from a misting assembly for drainage. 

Jae Le


----------



## frograck

me too! 40B horizontal



epiphytes etc. said:


> I really like your overall design, and would be interested in a horizontal model for a 40b.


----------



## konton

frograck said:


> me too! 40B horizontal


Well until I get this 10s and 20s going, I won't be able to do anything higher. I'd have to build a new machine for it. 

On a different note the port holes have been replaced with the square printed vents:









Looks like I fixed the calibration problem. The filament roller wasn't turning well and the filament itself need to be kept in check. 

A hole for a lock has been added on the right side to connect to the handle. I removed the misting and venting port. But I'll add them back depending on how this print does.

Jae Le


----------



## FroggyKnight

Sounds good, hopefully this one won't have any problems. Good luck! 

John


----------



## konton

Well this is my fail pile:










Luckily this was not a fail build:










Which isn't to say it can't be improved. I think 8 magnets are not necessary, and they can be placed under the handle. I'm also thinking about including a glass kit with lip that can go inside the tank while someone is planting it. That makes more sense. Then when it's finished you can just silicone the front on. That way the entire front can always be removed for a rebuild.

Jae Le


----------



## Kdog420000

Looks great!


----------



## whitethumb

I love it!! Would one able to order one with just the one vent at the bottom?


----------



## Bryanmc1988

i think the more flat and flush the door hinge the better so that no one or kids walk pass it and get their shirts or working around the tank and get their clothes or anything like that stuck on these pop out hinges... just more of a safety thing then anything... as small tanks and light weight as they are... you dont want a tank falling off a table and cracking open etc... just my 2 cents


----------



## FroggyKnight

Bryanmc1988 said:


> i think the more flat and flush the door hinge the better so that no one or kids walk pass it and get their shirts or working around the tank and get their clothes or anything like that stuck on these pop out hinges... just more of a safety thing then anything... as small tanks and light weight as they are... you dont want a tank falling off a table and cracking open etc... just my 2 cents


Its hard for me to see that occurring, but I think your concern is a valid one. I've known quite a few kids who tend to just pull (HARD!) when they get caught on something. If anything, I think a clasp or lock (if it hasn't been added already) would probably be a sufficient safeguard as this tank looks to be relatively flat in front already. I don't see it sticking out any more than an exoterra or zoomed, although those may be more rounded on the edges.

John


----------



## Mike1239

Have you figured a price point yet


----------



## Cutterfly

That's really cool! 
How well does the ventilation work for you? Does it just keep the front glass free of condensation or does it provide an airflow similar to european style vivaria as they are common over here in Germany? And how do you seal it up against dripping water from the bottom area?

By the way I ordered hundrets of these magnets a few weeks ago. I wanted to use them to
1.) keep whole backgrounds in place
2.) mount film canisters (one magnet outside the viv, one inside between canister and glass)

But I didn't use them because they aren't made of stainless steel. They are coated with galvanized nickel and I don't know if this could harm the frogs...


----------



## konton

To answer questions first:

@whitethumb - One vent? What do you mean? You mean a small vent to one side or something?

@Bryanmc1988 - Not an easy task. Most things on the tank stick out about 14mm. Dane has some great conversion kits that have nothing that sticks out. So at least you have options.

@Mike1239 - While I want to keep the pricing low for beta testers, it really depends on all the extras that are being added to the design. For beta I want to keep it under $30.

@Cutterfly - Vents are fine. It could use a fan. I like fans. A bead of silicone would help inside, but the vents are 1mm thick and not designed as an open space like euro tanks. The magnets are fine. Galvanized nickel is used as a safe coating. But many put them inside the tank without issue. They will rust if scratched though. 

Okay, so design updates on v1.2. Aesthetics could be better, but the new functions work. The glass is back at the bottom, to be put in place before the FrogFace. This lets you plant the tanks and do future rebuilds without the FrogFace on. I've added pressure springs around the edges of the FrogFace for easy placement and removal. There is space for a mister and now have 4 rectangular ports for vents. The door handle can be screw shut with a 1/4" nut and bolt. The magnets need to be placed back at the corners and be less strong. I also removed the black cover at the bottom, but and reconsidering this.

Here's a video that demos the functionality. At the end of the day, I may just option to glue the damn thing on with epoxy. But I feel like we all eventually rebuild our tanks, so this is a more functional way to go.






Jae Le


----------



## Mike1239

You can put me on the beta list


----------



## whitethumb

You have two vents one below the door and one above the door. I would want only the one vent below the door


----------



## FroggyKnight

Ok, it official, you have to put me on the beta tester list. This thing looks awesome!! It basically makes an aquarium in to a better version of a Zoomed. This version is a success and I really like the way it attaches to the front of the tank.

Send me one of these man, I have a bunch of frogs who are begging for remodels 


John


----------



## Slengteng

When ever you willing to sell these i wanna have one too! I just have to check out if we have this stile of aquariums in europe! Never saw these black frame in a store on a aquarium!


----------



## FroggyKnight

Slengteng said:


> When ever you willing to sell these i wanna have one too! I just have to check out if we have this stile of aquariums in europe! Never saw these black frame in a store on a aquarium!


This actually raises an important question, are you building this kit to fit a tetra or an aqueon? 

John


----------



## Slengteng

What is a tetra/aqueon? The brand of the tank?


----------



## Dendro Dave

I really like the new version too. I did prefer the magnets at the top/bottom corners though where they felt more out of the way visually to me.


----------



## FroggyKnight

Slengteng said:


> What is a tetra/aqueon? The brand of the tank?


Yup! Sorry, I guess I should have been more clear in my last post. Tetra and aqueon are the top two aquarium brands in the US, at least for the kind of tanks we use for our frogs.

John


----------



## diggenem

OK so how do I get on the list? Definitely want a couple.


----------



## infamousnoble

I'll gladly beta test this please put me on the list.


----------



## konton

Thanks for the kind words. But I have miles to go before I sleep. While glass, epoxy, and plastic have all been accounted for, the extra little parts make testing take longer and cost more. I have to go try different magnet sizes for the best foot pounds of pressure, and find better compression springs than what I have. But a few answers and questions. 

So everyone likes the way the front attaches? Or should it just be glued on? Glue in the long run makes for a more solid frame. But being able to easily remove the entire font anytime adds some functionality I know a few of you want. Then again I can just switch back to screws you need to tighten into place.

@whitethumb - Are you saying you don't like it divided? I don't think it will be as solid if it was one long vent.

@FroggyKnight - That's a Tetra it's on, and I also tested it on Grreat Choice. Those are what Petco and Petsmart currently sells. I don't think anyone carries Aqueon anymore for 10g. But it's easy to mod the design for the width if I can just get my hands on a frame to test it.

@Dendro Dave - The magnets are shrinking and will be back on the right top and bottom corners. The left hinges keep enough pressure as to not require magnets.

I'm going to have a page for registering for the beta test come November. But I enjoying giving you all a preview of things to come! If you really want to be added to the list now, please PM me your name and email address. Thanks!

Jae Le


----------



## FroggyKnight

That's good that its based on tetra brand, as far as I know all other kits on the market are for the aqueon tanks. 

I think the way it attaches is fine, but I would make sure the compression springs will last in vivarium conditions. Its important to remember that they may be exposed to 80%+ humidity for years! 

John


----------



## Slengteng

What are the exact dimensions of the tank, glas thickness? I think tetra is selling different ones in europe so it wouldnt work for me!


----------



## Dendro Dave

Walmart sells aquaculture, not sure if it is rebranded aqueon or what. I know they used to sell the exact same 5gal hexes that were by marine land under a different name. Those might be worth getting the measurements for. I assume these could all be saved under different files to print on demand... the tricky part maybe having to alter the glass parts for each tank brand.


----------



## konton

You have no idea how hard it's going to be to get good compression latches for these tanks. But once I do and have them tested, we're ready for the beta program. That's all that's holding me back now. That and trying to decide to print in PLA or ABS. I have to say, PLA is much more sturdy.

@FroggyKnight - The springs are on the outside. 

@Slengteng - Why don't you tell me the height and width inside a tank frame where you are. That would be a great help. The FrogFaces will be 241mm x 492mm.

@Dendro Dave - Good to know. I was focusing on Petsmart and Petco since they are the top 2 places people go to buy. I never thought of Walmart. May I'll check out Pet Supplies Plus as well.

Jae Le


----------



## james67

Dendro Dave said:


> Walmart sells aquaculture, not sure if it is rebranded aqueon or what. I know they used to sell the exact same 5gal hexes that were by marine land under a different name. Those might be worth getting the measurements for. I assume these could all be saved under different files to print on demand... the tricky part maybe having to alter the glass parts for each tank brand.


From what I remember, walmart disregards "standards" for aquarium sizing. Their tanks are different from every other brand.

also, Konton:
Sorry I didnt get back sooner, I wasnt trying to imply that the print quality appeared low, just wondering. 

as far as an example, heres a pic I grabbed from the interweb:









James


----------



## ecichlid

I'm not sure I understand the value of the compression latches. It makes the ability to use a lock worthless. A kid could turn those latches and it would be a problem. Since the latches are going to be a challenge, why not forego them altogether? Lose the piece of bottom glass and require the customer to apply a bead of silicone to the tank rim and then just drop the frog face in place?

I apologize if I'm missing something here.


----------



## konton

james67 said:


> I wasnt trying to imply that the print quality appeared low, just wondering.


Oh, I was more confused about what you were talking about. You can't really change resolution with a 3d printer. Which is why that photo is crazy. Do you have an article link? 

You can use different nozzles for more detail. But this is pretty much a big flat piece with a few extras sticking out.



ecichlid said:


> I'm not sure I understand the value of the compression latches.


The latches were just a cool idea I had at that specific moment. But I see tank rebuilds so often it makes sense. However since we don't rebuild every month but every couple years, I agree that if you just silicone it on, you can always take a razor and pry it off again without destroying anything. On the negative, silicone between plastic is not that great of a glue. Which is why it's so removable.

3D printing is not a waterproof process. The FDM system it uses means you press heated filament against heated filament and add infill to the inside of the design. In order to help waterproof and make the FrogFace more durable, I'm rubber coating them. But in the long run I think it's safer to have the glass at the bottom. It also helps so you can do an entire tank build before the door goes on. 

Jae Le


----------



## Slengteng

konton said:


> You have no idea how hard it's going to be to get good compression latches for these tanks. But once I do and have them tested, we're ready for the beta program. That's all that's holding me back now. That and trying to decide to print in PLA or ABS. I have to say, PLA is much more sturdy.
> 
> @FroggyKnight - The springs are on the outside.
> 
> @Slengteng - Why don't you tell me the height and width inside a tank frame where you are. That would be a great help. The FrogFaces will be 241mm x 492mm.
> 
> @Dendro Dave - Good to know. I was focusing on Petsmart and Petco since they are the top 2 places people go to buy. I never thought of Walmart. May I'll check out Pet Supplies Plus as well.
> 
> Jae Le


Yeah thats nice! I will get a tank here and give you the dimensions!


----------



## ecichlid

Will someone have to separately purchase a piece of custom cut glass and silicone it to the tank before they can use the Frog Face? If yes, then I don't think this product will be in much demand.


----------



## Mohlerbear

I'd still buy it bro! Piece of glass is like $4.50. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ecichlid

Mohlerbear said:


> I'd still buy it bro! Piece of glass is like $4.50.



Getting a piece of glass never stopped me from making tops for my Exo vivs. But if you want a greater percentage of adoption, convenience is a big factor. If the Frog Face came with a small tube of silicone and you could just drop it into a tank and then your done, that has more mass appeal.


----------



## bsr8129

Is there any Vert conversion that doesnt have a piece of glass at the bottom


----------



## konton

I supply the bottom glass with the kit. And you could do without it. Here's my test of the previous design sprayed in Plasti Dip and siliconed to the aquarium frame, as was the original plan:










It's water tight. But how well does silicone sealant work between plastic and rubber? Not well at all, a good tug will rip this sucker out. So I'll keep the braces without a springs as part of the design. 

Or maybe not. I know most of us would take gorilla glue and cement the face on the tank forever, if only we could just remove the glass front now and then. So, last night I redesigned and tested the hinges to be removable:










Now you can pull the glass door of when ya need to. I'm also working to take brace with spring and turn it into a latch on the front so no one can accidentally open the doors.

Jae Le


----------



## timmygreener

I hope you patent this in some way, because I have a feeling you could sell a ton of these one you get it dialed in......I'll take 20 haha.

They look great, the simplistic, good looking design, and durability. I wish I thought of it!

Good work man I look forward to seeing what else you can cook up


----------



## radiata

Jae Le,

I can't say enough about your efforts and the new territory you've been exploring!

Please, please, please... continue with your work and keep us all connected with it...

Regards,
Bob


----------



## wyosilers

Konton, your work on this is is epic. Keep it up your doing a fantastic job and the FrogFace is going to be a big hit.

Wyo


----------



## moore40

This is quite an impressive design. Now once you get this dialed in what about a custom top for exos that adds a vent, glass top, ports for misters, allows use of the exo light hood and fits with little to zero modding.


----------



## ecichlid

moore40 said:


> This is quite an impressive design. Now once you get this dialed in what about a custom top for exos that adds a vent, glass top, ports for misters, allows use of the exo light hood and fits with little to zero modding.



Great idea!


----------



## konton

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the response I'm getting from you all. This week is going to be a slow week of updates, since I'm headed out of town again, but it looks like things are on rack. 

BTW, if I give too much information about my process, I'm sorry. I just like a log of progress.

Good news. I can print the fronts with ABS plastic (I wasn't sure until this week which makes a huge different in keeping the price down). I'm sure most of you are used to putting stuff made of ABS plastic in your aquariums and terrariums and thus know it's safe. You also may know that acetone melts ABS plastic. Which means a little rub of acetone on the back may be all I need to make it waterproof. Thus no need for a glass bottom. ABS is a bit flimsier than PLA, so I'm going to bulk up the frame. It won't be as sleek looking, and adds a couple hours to the build time, but I think it's a good tradeoff.

I've decided since the glass door is now removable and secured by magnets, there is no reason to make the entire front removable. So I'm not adding the frame latches. Latches just add too many parts (and addition cost). I say either silicone it in for a temporary situation, or use gorilla glue for something permanent.

Jae Le


----------



## moore40

Any new news?


----------



## konton

Sorry. Just got back from NYC. And when trying to make a working ABS model I broke the 3D printer. I'm waiting for replacement parts to arrive. 

ABS has more pros then cons as the plastic to use. The main con I'm having issues with is it shrinks when cooling. Thus it bends itself off the printing bed, into the way of the extrusion nozzle, and the whole print is destroyed after 4 hours of printing.

If anyone is in the Detroit area and knows how to repair 3d printers I could use a hand!

Jae Le


----------



## TapDart91

Ok i want to buy one, where at? Saves me time


----------



## konton

Nothing available yet. And sadly I don't know when. Further tests broke a motor. Or perhaps a driver. I also didn't have any fans running to cool the system which may have caused other issues. 

It's all quite frustrating and I deeply regret letting people know about the development of my FrogFace when it seems like I may not be able to deliver. I don't want this to be vaporware. 

I don't have much time for focus on resolving these problems these days. But I assure you all I'm still working to make this dream a reality.

Thanks.

Jae Le


----------



## moore40

Keep working bro. We'll wait for the good stuff.


----------



## Dendro Dave

Hey it's new territory, poop happens... I believe in you


----------



## FroggyKnight

Dendro Dave said:


> Hey it's new territory, poop happens... I believe in you


This is absolutely true. There will undoubtedly be plenty of problems, but it will make success all that much sweeter when you reach your final product. Keep going man, this is awesome!

John


----------



## konton

I do. I did. I have. And the final version is done. The FrogFace:










10 outer latches to keep it in place without any gluing required. Vents above and below the glass. Easy drilling area for a misting head. Magnetic seal. Lockable. And a removable glass door.










Keep in mind for the purposes of Dart Frogs at the moment you'll still need a way to waterproof the bottom. So I'll add in a 9"x3" piece of glass with plastic trim.










The video might explain better all the functionality:






Anyone interested in being part of the pilot program to test these can contact me using [email protected]. Or just PM me. Once I have printed out 24 of these and figure out the best way to package them, I'll begin going thorough my email list and contacting you.

I hope you all like what you see!

Jae Le


----------



## Minkey

This looks incredibly slick and seems to incorporate everything and anything previous posters enjoyed most. I can't wait to try one out in the future, congratulations and best of luck in your business!


----------



## epiphytes etc.

This looks like a great product good luck


----------



## moore40

Very nice man. Glad you got it back up and working.


----------



## gdebell

That looks so nice. I'm very excited about this project. Good work.


----------



## myersboy6

So I have a question. How tall (inches) is the bottom of the tank to the top of the plastic and how many inches is the top vent.


----------



## rickdogg

Looks awesome. ! Good luck


----------



## Dendro Dave

PM'd for beta... Looks good.


----------



## kiyitec

PM'ed you for beta.

My $0.02... seems like you had a problem putting your door back on one handed. If you made the bottom hinge pin a little shorter than the top, and was able to insert the top 1/8"-1/4" before needing to line up the bottom, it would make things easier even 2 handed.
Hope that idea helps, and there is no need to call it a KiyiHinge


----------



## infamousnoble

Emailed you for beta testing. I've been following this for a while like how It finally turned out. Good work glad you stuck with it!!!


----------



## FroggyKnight

Emailed you for beta yesterday (and PM'ed a while back)!

John


----------



## harrisbt

This is awesome -- way to work your way through all the iterations.


----------



## konton

Thanks for the kind words! I have received multiple PMs and emails. Glad to see people interested! Right now while trying to print as many as I can, I'm also trying to determine the best way to ship. Any thoughts? I was going to use game board USPS flat rate boxes, but the rate is almost $17! All shipping suggestions welcomed.



myersboy6 said:


> So I have a question. How tall (inches) is the bottom of the tank to the top of the plastic and how many inches is the top vent.


Not sure in inches. The FrogFace is 241mm by 491mm and tested on Tetra and Grreat Choice aquariums from Petco and Petsmart. The bottom has a little over 3" of space for substrate and a false bottom. 



kiyitec said:


> PM'ed you for beta.
> 
> My $0.02... seems like you had a problem putting your door back on one handed. If you made the bottom hinge pin a little shorter than the top, and was able to insert the top 1/8"-1/4" before needing to line up the bottom, it would make things easier even 2 handed.
> Hope that idea helps, and there is no need to call it a KiyiHinge


Good idea about the spacing. I already added 2mm. I guess I can add 3mm to just the top hinge (actually I think the bottom might be better for it). Something to look into on the next iteration. 



FroggyKnight said:


> Emailed you for beta yesterday (and PM'ed a while back)!
> 
> John



I got the PM! BTW I don't think the glow in the dark plasti-dip is worth the effort. I don't think the small edge of small would add much light. 

Jae Le


----------



## Pubfiction

One way to shave a couple bucks off shipping is to do it through the USPS website. They just take a couple dollars off no matter what you ship if you do it through the website and print the labels. You can also check into regional rate boxes, not sure if any are big enough. 

Other than that just see what the ground rate is. Shipping something this light shouldn't be much more than $10. It's not perishable so any shipping method will work so check into ground. Also you can setup a business account with any shipper and they will take a little more off. This adds up quick with fedex the discounts on larger boxes are crazy. I can't imagine paying retail again.


----------



## konton

Pubfiction said:


> One way to shave a couple bucks off shipping is to do it through the USPS website. They just take a couple dollars off no matter what you ship if you do it through the website and print the labels. You can also check into regional rate boxes, not sure if any are big enough.
> 
> Other than that just see what the ground rate is. Shipping something this light shouldn't be much more than $10. It's not perishable so any shipping method will work so check into ground. Also you can setup a business account with any shipper and they will take a little more off. This adds up quick with fedex the discounts on larger boxes are crazy. I can't imagine paying retail again.


Good suggestions. I may just have to look for a different box. This could take a while. 

BTW: Everyone wants the FrogFaces in black, right? The new plastic I got isn't working out, and I can't get the old one in black. I can get it in red, yellow and a few other colors. Or does everyone just want black?


----------



## kiyitec

It's a test... use pink or baby blue. That aught to separate the men from the boys! We can always BUY it in cool colors later.

REGIONAL SHIPPING: I will volunteer to distribute to the Chicago area and can hand off to someone in the St. Louis area to distribute there. (I don't know where everyone is that wants to help test these... but if we are going to step up to help we might as well Step Up!)

I also have something for you to put on the back burner for later. Although I can't even draw a proportionate stick figure... I'll pm you later.


----------



## FroggyKnight

I'm glad to hear that you got my PM, I wasn't sure if it worked 

Black is probably my preference and I imagine a lot of people would agree. Red is be my second choice, but how bright would it be? I would not want the color of the conversion kit to distract a viewer from the stuff inside. It would be interesting if you offered other colors, but I do not know how popular they would be. 

John


----------



## infamousnoble

Since its in a beta stage and you are trying to test it out whatever color is easiest for you would most likely be fine for most of us just IMO. I'm sure once you get it in full production runs you could setup a color choice for froggers looking to stand out just an idea for marketing.


----------



## JoshuaB

Any color for a Beta Test is fine. After all, we are making sure that the design works fine over time and can provide quality feedback on the build. I'd take any color, and will even be taking the grown in build to the next breeders show to display it on a friends table.


----------



## DJReptile

PM Sent. This looks like an awesome product and would love to try it out with some small geckoes as well.


----------



## Jeremy M

if beta testers really don't like the color they could probably cover up some of the larger surfaces with ordinary electrical or duct tape. I'd advise against trying to get complete coverage since that would probably impede the function of the design or hide some potential flaws, which completely defeats the purpose of beta-testing... but I guess it's still an option.


----------



## konton

Thanks for the responses. I was able to order a few reels of the higher quality plastic in black. But I'm still trying to find a solution to get the current Inland plastic to work in order to make sturdy vents. It takes almost 7 hours for one face to print and I only know if the print failed at the end. Here are good prototypes waiting for me to find a way to ship them before I start opening beta testing:










And this is the fail pile:










Every failure costs me. But it's a learning process. I've increased the depth of the vents and opened the space at the bottom of the tank to try to resolve it. I'm trying a new print now. I know some of you like to see the false bottom so you know the water level. So this change may be preferable.

I have some high quality reels of red and bright green filament, if anyone wants to try some different colors. But I agree that with a black aquarium frame, a black face looks better. And while this is beta testing, I do want to you have a product you'll be happy with.

Jae Le


----------



## FroggyKnight

I should add that I will gladly take any color I get, its not critical to me 

John


----------



## konton

Sadly my reel order got cancelled due to no stock. So I'm going to make a couple in green and red for Xmas! Thanks for everyone's understanding. 

Since there is glass at the bottom, does anyone prefer the face open to see below the bottom vents, or does everyone like it closed off?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pubfiction

Do which ever is cheaper, or close it as a differentiating factor from the other vertical kits. Also can you grind or recycle the failed plastic to reuse it?


----------



## myersboy6

I personally like an open bottom where I can see the false bottom and water level.


----------



## stevenhman

I'd make it in 4 parts. Top, 2 sides, bottom. That way a failed print isn't as catastrophic and you can just jam out 20 of each at a time while you sleep. Makes for a much easier time of shipping as well.

I think the 3D printed screen isn't the most important part, you could just use SS mesh and get a better and more consistent result. It seems to be a critical area where bad print resolution = flies everywhere.

An enclosure for the printer may help. I know when the air kicks on sometimes a print can get a bit wonky without having the covers on it.


----------



## Dendro Dave

stevenhman said:


> I'd make it in 4 parts. Top, 2 sides, bottom. That way a failed print isn't as catastrophic and you can just jam out 20 of each at a time while you sleep. Makes for a much easier time of shipping as well.
> 
> I think the 3D printed screen isn't the most important part, you could just use SS mesh and get a better and more consistent result. It seems to be a critical area where bad print resolution = flies everywhere.
> 
> An enclosure for the printer may help. I know when the air kicks on sometimes a print can get a bit wonky without having the covers on it.


I don't think that is a bad idea, but I'd suggest doing 3. Top, middle, and bottom and having them fit together similarly to how the hinges fit together with a peg. Then it becomes unlikely that you don't get at least one piece thats usuable.

Also I agree that if the screen is where your print is going bad and/or is dramatically increasing print time it might be more cost/labor/time effective to revisit the idea of something like in my craptastic drawing... (I will say it is cool that you actually can print a vent though)










Where you print a simple support structure that you can easily attach a foam or screen vent to with a lil silicone, epoxy...whatever. I'd prefer the foam since it is ff proof and looks clean IMO. Could get one of those paper cutting boards with the big blade arm and get several kits worth of vent material out of each 24" x 15" piece which costs under $2 at walmart. Its less durable then screen mesh, but unless someone intentionally pokes a finger through it or a reptile has claws and some determination, it should hold up. Has for me so far. Could offer the mesh or foam as options.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...c-filter-foam-fans-vents-ff-lids-etc-etc.html

Oh and it might be cool to have an alternate version with a very unobtrusive handle to maximize viewing area. I have no need to lock mine so I'd rather not have the bulky plate/latch piece blocking the view. I also still like the magnets in the corners... Sorry, don't mean to be a pain just giving feed back  I'd buy what you have, but what I outlined would be more the ideal for me at least


----------



## Azurel

That looks amazing bro.....

If you get to the point of making these for 20g I will be interested....I have a couple planned for some glass frogs....And these look much nicer then anything I could DIY...

Great work bro....keep it up


----------



## konton

Azurel said:


> That looks amazing bro.....If you get to the point of making these for 20g I will be interested


Thanks! It's on the to do list. I'd like to have 20 10g vert kits for testing before taking that next step. But I have made a beta testing sign-up page to get more info on what people are interested in. 
Frog Cube | FrogFace Beta Testing Questionare

I'm actually excited to work on a 20G high conversion kit. I have some designs I'm working on for internal air-circulation. In the future I'd liked people to be able to easily add them on.



stevenhman said:


> I'd make it in 4 parts. Top, 2 sides, bottom.


Yeah. I did try some of your suggestions when I first started printing. It didn't work out for various reasons. One solid print made more sense. Right now the print is taking 7.5 hours, but now that I've gone back to the old plastic (although in red) each print has been great and the vents are very solid. Thanks for the suggestions though. I think when I work on the 20 gallon I'll more space for sectioning if it's possible.



Dendro Dave said:


> Where you print a simple support structure that you can easily attach a foam or screen vent to with a lil silicone, epoxy...whatever. ... I have no need to lock mine so I'd rather not have the bulky plate/latch piece blocking the view. I also still like the magnets in the corners...


Yeah, I know you like the corner magnets, but it just wasn't as solid when I did that. And while the handle does block some of the view, it helps keep the glass in place. Anyway, the 2mm thick vents are now printing fine, and you can always place 3mm of foam in front if necessary. 

Red prints look good! Well, my wife likes them. Which makes me think that getting a red kit might help convince you wife that another tank around the house would look nice.

Jae Le


----------



## Azurel

Cool thanks J.....I filled it out..


----------



## Jeremy M

Awesome to see that this is making some real progress, I'm really excited about your project! When the questionnaire says "external drainage", does that mean an access point to syphon off or just being able to view the drainage layer as previously discussed?


----------



## konton

Jeremy M said:


> Awesome to see that this is making some real progress, I'm really excited about your project! When the questionnaire says "external drainage", does that mean an access point to syphon off or just being able to view the drainage layer as previously discussed?


Here's the best testing form again for anyone who didn't see it:
Frog Cube | FrogFace Beta Testing Questionare


"external drainage" refers to a bulkhead or something to bring water to the outside of the tank for drainage. I can't do this for you, but since I can leave the bottom open to access the 3" high non-tempered glass, anyone could drill a bulkhead there for drainage. of course you can just view the water level this way.

I was working on a inside port to syphon water from easily, but it will have to happen later once I'm done with the beta testing. 

Jae Le


----------



## konton

Here is a new video that explains my FrogFace kits, what they come with, how they are setup, and some options I can offer. Sorry it's so long.






Jae Le


----------



## moore40

I love it. They are great looking.


----------



## CrucialCrew_Justin

Emailed you and signed up on frogcube.com. I love these things. 3D printing definitely has its place in the frog hobby and I can't wait to see what else can be done (i.e. backgrounds with built in air ducts) as the cost of 3D printing goes down.


----------



## harrisbt

FroggyKnight said:


> This actually raises an important question, are you building this kit to fit a tetra or an aqueon?


I peeked at the frogcube website (under the beta testing tab) -- Tetra or Grreat choice will work.

DING! DING! DING! WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER! ... I love chicken.


----------



## Mparrish74

Awesome idea. Recently purchased a 3d printer. Would have never thought of this. Great idea


----------



## myersboy6

I think what you have going on is fantastic! There is always things you could tweak or fix but I think that comes with time and with beta tests as well. I like how you can give options as to how you can build out the kit. Keep it up the good work!


----------



## CrucialCrew_Justin

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214449

Making myself a 10 gallon vert in the hopes of being selected for beta testing...


----------



## konton

Thanks for all the responses everyone! I'm closing down beta testing page (Frog Cube | FrogFace Beta Testing Questionare) this week. I didn't expect so many responses. So if you are interested please sign up. 

I took this weekend off printing actual tanks and worked on parts like cutting glass and making hinges and latches. But I'll get back to printing frames shortly. I thought a few of you might enjoy the look of the holiday colors!









I decided to test out removable black vents on the neon green. They didn't work out so well. I just can't get them to fight tightly. I also opened the bottom so a hole for drainage was possible. I don't think I like it. Plus this plastic cuts easily, so drilling a hole in the plastic would be an easy solution.

Okay, I need to get back to my day job.

Jae Le


----------



## myersboy6

Looks awesome! Can't decide if I like it with out without the opening at the bottom..


----------



## InvertaHerp

Could I beta test these? Cool idea, I love 3D printers.


----------



## InvertaHerp

Btw, I put other because I don't know off the top of my head what kind of tank it is. Still would love to test these! I want to make some verts...


----------



## konton

I'm sticking with the full print. I've had some recent failure trying to tweak the design. Sometimes you need to just leave things well enough alone. Here's 7.5 hours in 30 seconds. I think my wife will divorce me if she doesn't get the kitchen back soon.






Jae Le


----------



## infamousnoble

Looks better every time I see it. Can't wait to get my beta kit from you!! I really like the green a lot I think I like it more then black lol


----------



## konton

I have about 20 ready to ship. I just don't have a good way to ship them yet safely! AUGH! I hate glass. 

I also hate printing problems. Here is my big issue. After 6.5 hour of printing, the FrogFace makes it to the point where the outside hinge is printed. It's only got about 30 minutes to go. But the machine vibrates so much, it jumps off track and the print is destroyed. Observe 11 seconds into the video:






By 15 seconds in you can see on the right side of the string of plastic that has fallen. So lame.

Eventually I'll figure out how to fix every problem. Until then I may only have 20 in this first beta test.

Jae Le


----------



## Pubfiction

I think you would be surprised how durable glass is in the smaller sizes. Just had a 24x30 inch glass mirror shipped to me from amazon arrived all in one piece and was not that impressively packaged. Grab a sheet of styrofoam from home depot and you have everything you need sandwich the glass in between 2 sheets or stab it into chunks on all 4 corners.


----------



## Jeremy M

do you know what's causing the printer tray to vibrate? Is it some glitch in the machine, something pressing too hard against the tray, a stuck gear or something else? I doubt if this is how the programming works, but maybe if you tried to set the printer to take a longer time printing it wouldn't encounter the same problem from such high speed printing.

As for shipping glass, I think that could be part of the beta test- seeing which shipping methods work. I know you want everyone to be happy with their product out of box, but if it takes a couple breaking during the first round of transit to figure out a shipping method that works, it may be worth it. We could always try to get our own cut, or maybe there are some people who have easier access to or experience with class cutting equipment who would volunteer to be used as guinea pigs.


----------



## steelyphil

Jeremy M said:


> do you know what's causing the printer tray to vibrate? Is it some glitch in the machine, something pressing too hard against the tray, a stuck gear or something else? I doubt if this is how the programming works, but maybe if you tried to set the printer to take a longer time printing it wouldn't encounter the same problem from such high speed printing.


I'm curious too. Did you build this from a kit or design it yourself?


----------



## konton

Thanks for the suggestions. Part of it is just trying to keep costs down. I'm sure you all know the costs involved just to package frogs so they can be shipped in winter. It all adds up! And this is ground shipping! But I did find cheap boxes on Amazon which arrive Monday and I have considered getting foam board, but it will still be at least a $2 worth of foam per package. And if the foam doesn't work out and packages arrive with broken glass, I don't know how best to ship a replacement. Anyway I want to make sure a FrogFace with shipping isn't more than $35 as part of the beta test. I won't ship more than 25, but I'll let you all know the options when it's ready next week. 

As far as the machine goes, its a catch 22. The longer the print takes, the more problems can occur. I'm working on a modular format now to reduce issues as such. Printing the hinges separate from the face would be optimal, but it doesn't look nearly as nice. If I had a way to slow the board for the last 30 minutes I would. Actually, there may be a way to do it with the code for the slic3r program. But I'm no programmer. 

Hey, I'm turning 40 tomorrow. Not that it's important. I was really hoping to get these out before my birthday. Oh well.

Jae Le


----------



## konton

steelyphil said:


> I'm curious too. Did you build this from a kit or design it yourself?


I bought a printer that did a 16"x16" print called the gMax 3D printer. It had flaws in the design. I not only tried to correct them, but extend the width and shorten the depth, to be 32"x14" so later I could print FrogFaces for 20L tanks. I built this one part-by-part and decided to call it the gMax Double Wide after the mobile homes my wife sells.

The vibration is caused when printing a diagonal infill to create the inside of the hinge. The short distance it needs to cover in order to create the infill makes the whole machine vibrate violently on the y-axis. The y-axis is what moves the printing bed back and forth. And with a printing bed almost double the size, there is much more weight, causing that much more stress on the engine, which jerks everything off track in the process.

Much of 3d printing is learning on the job. And half the problems happen when I'm sleeping or out of the room. Which is why I got a camera with DVR on the printer so now I can go back and see what was the problem. 

Hey, remember I'm doing all this for you guys! I'm like a frog philanthropist or something. 

Jae Le


----------



## FroggyKnight

Hey, congrats! Happy birthday!

You might not have reached your goal, but at least you've made a lot of progress with this project and your not that far behind schedule. Once you get the shipping method figured out, your beta testing can get back on track and if you can find someone to help with programming, you will have a much higher success rate when printing the hinges. I wouldn't be surprised if you can find someone to help you out with that who is also a frogger. Maybe you can trade a few kits for some programming assistance


----------



## steelyphil

konton said:


> I bought a printer that did a 16"x16" print called the gMax 3D printer. It had flaws in the design. I not only tried to correct them, but extend the width and shorten the depth, to be 32"x14" so later I could print FrogFaces for 20L tanks. I built this one part-by-part and decided to call it the gMax Double Wide after the mobile homes my wife sells.
> 
> The vibration is caused when printing a diagonal infill to create the inside of the hinge. The short distance it needs to cover in order to create the infill makes the whole machine vibrate violently on the y-axis. The y-axis is what moves the printing bed back and forth. And with a printing bed almost double the size, there is much more weight, causing that much more stress on the engine, which jerks everything off track in the process.
> 
> Much of 3d printing is learning on the job. And half the problems happen when I'm sleeping or out of the room. Which is why I got a camera with DVR on the printer so now I can go back and see what was the problem.
> 
> Hey, remember I'm doing all this for you guys! I'm like a frog philanthropist or something.
> 
> Jae Le


So it sounds like a stronger motor would help?


----------



## VoidDiver

Ooooh ya. I see a way to do 20L for terrestrial without having to deal with top opening in a rack. I'm all in.


----------



## CrucialCrew_Justin

Awesome happy birthday... What day will you start shipping I can't wait to get my hands on one? I have a feeling (judging by what a hit they already are) once you get all the bugs worked out these things will be a huge success.


----------



## JoshuaB

Glass is very easy to come by for some people... maybe you can offer a kit without the glass to reduce the worry of breakage?


----------



## myersboy6

Happy birthday! I think a small piece of Styrofoam is a good way to go. Is the cost of shipping high because of the size of package or because of Shipping materials? All in all you are on the right track and a lot of froggers are excited for this to work. Keep up the good work! I'm sure it'll all pay off in the end.


----------



## konton

Thanks for the suggestions. Well I'm bummed to say the boxes are arriving late. I'm going to try sheets of insulation to keep the glass from breaking. But the 21 prints are out and ready for boxing up and shipping out.










We have 9 black and 12 red.



















I'll be contacting people in the order of form submissions to see who wants what. Some of these are better for those who need drainage know they will use a misting system.

I'll probably do another group in January based on feedback. I also have some specs for a new 3d printer design that should allow for a flatter bed and a 36x18 build area. So with any luck I'll be able to do front for 40 gallon breeders, should these work out for beta testers. 

Jae Le


----------



## myersboy6

Looks good!


----------



## VoidDiver

Sign me up for black if available!


----------



## ryangreenway

Put me down for the 2nd round of tests!


----------



## EightBiht

I'd love to be apart of beta testing as well if its possible!


----------



## Triangle08

This would be awesome to test so i look forward to the january round. also if you need any help with CAD i use solidworks everyday at work and would be more than happy to help.


----------



## konton

If you still wanna sign up for beta testing you are welcome to. But you'll be at the end of a long list:
Frog Cube | FrogFace Beta Testing Questionare

It occurred to me today this is a huge learning curve. It was one thing just to make two types of FrogFaces.










But then I had to figure out how to package them, send out mass emails, contact people and let them choose which type (which is the biggest pain), and then how to let them pay with a credit card. And really, I think selling frogs would make more money.

All that said I spent the day packaging what I had to make sure I knew I had a solid enough way to ship.










Thanks again everyone for the suggestions on that. These boxes are damn solid and I can't wait for people to start using these faces! I hope they live up to your expectations.

Jae Le


----------



## harrisbt

Thanks so much for all your hard work! Looking forward to receiving mine in the mail, and, when the time comes, hopefully buying more so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor at the top of the learning curve.


----------



## edaxflamma

I signed up as well! Very interested in the black 10g! 

These look awesome. 

Have you thought about setting up a donation link or something to that effect? I'm sure there are others who would want to help out a good cause here.


----------



## Pubfiction

I received my black full face today. It seems to fit perfectly on 2 of my 10 gallon tanks but not on a third. The clips seems to work very well although I have not fully clipped them all on just a couple to test before I put the glass and silicone in one. The one downfall is if you want to drain the tank easily from the front you are still going to need to cut glass. 

The plastic this is made out of also feels a little brittle it will be interesting to see how it holds up long term. Hopefully at some point you can figure out how to make a gasket or seal so it does not require any silicone. Just clip it on and go. 

Will IPS Weldon 16 work with this plastic?


----------



## konton

Hey, remember you can post to https://www.facebook.com/frogcube as well about issues and suggestions.

What type of tanks is the 3rd? These are for Tetra and Grreat Choice aquariums. Not Aqueon. Yep, you need to drill the glass if you want to put on a bulk head. Technically with the full face you could try not adding the glass, drilling a hole in the plastic, and fitting a bulkhead. The inside is coated with rubber. But I don't think it will hold up to heavy scratching by rocks or such. You'd silicone the face in place, and use the latches to hold it there. That silicone between plastic will not hold up to high pressure.

Yes, ISP weldon 16 will cement the plastic. 

Thanks again for being a beta tester. I hope with your suggestion the next round of testing with resolve most issues. However sadly, I still have not found a way for this plastic to be waterproof with 3d printing.

Jae Le



Pubfiction said:


> I received my black full face today. It seems to fit perfectly on 2 of my 10 gallon tanks but not on a third. The clips seems to work very well although I have not fully clipped them all on just a couple to test before I put the glass and silicone in one. The one downfall is if you want to drain the tank easily from the front you are still going to need to cut glass.
> 
> The plastic this is made out of also feels a little brittle it will be interesting to see how it holds up long term. Hopefully at some point you can figure out how to make a gasket or seal so it does not require any silicone. Just clip it on and go.
> 
> Will IPS Weldon 16 work with this plastic?


----------



## Dendro Dave

Um if someone doesn't want to cut glass or maybe even as a way to lower cost of kit, I'm pretty sure a piece of foam insulation board cut to fit and smeared with silicone will act as a perfectly acceptable replacement. Might even be able to include it as part of the packing material  Sealed with silicone it shouldn't off gas either. I actually used a piece of linoleum that way once. Should be hidden from view anyways, and also be strong enough to hold back the lil bit of water in a 10-20 vert, as long as you don't punch the frogface 

Oh Jae, I got your other email. I'm gonna have to overdraft account to buy food and smokes for rest of month so I won't have money for shipping or to buy a 10gal till first of month. My 10's are in use. So I'll jump in then if possible, catch the next round, or when they are in full production... Sawy  ...But thanks for trying to include me


----------



## bsr8129

Can't wait to get mine. I'm going to try to retro fit an existing 10 that has the normal front on it. Seems like I should, and don't have to silicone in the glass


----------



## CrucialCrew_Justin

Hey Jae my FrogFace arrived this morning I posted on your Facebook page as it arrived in 100 pieces.


----------



## JoshuaB

Same here Jae. The frame appears ok, but the door is shattered. I'll be seeing about getting another piece cut and salvaging the hinges.


----------



## Mike1239

Mine came in today in beautiful shape the ones that came broken are definitely USPS' fault.


----------



## bsr8129

Yup the glass came broke on mine too. I think I can salvage it with some silicone. 



also seems like all of my current 10 gal are too large for this to directly fit on so I'll have to pick one up at the dollar sale.


----------



## konton

I'm really bummed and I do apologize for so many arriving broken. This was a test in shipping as well as the FrogFace itself. The shipping was more costly than expected, and while I stated as such there would be no replacements or refunds, too many are arriving broken. I will tally after xmas the totals that arrived broken and will try to find a solution that will make everyone happy. 

Please know this is costing me in the long run. $15 a face for 21 prints doesn't really cover all the thousands I've spent in building printing systems (Almost eight grand at this point), the time and effort, and all the failed prints. Or the time and effort trying to make the beta test happen. I wasn't really trying to make money. Just offset some of the costs getting out to everyone.

Honestly, at this point I'm about ready to call this a failure. I will try to resolve all broken prints. I am sorry to waste people's time. I hope those of you who got your FrogFaces with a safe arrival are happy with what you received from me.

Jae Le


----------



## JoshuaB

Don't worry Jae. We are a resourceful bunch and if the glass is broken, we can make it work. And hopefully your beta data helps with your final product. 
-Josh


----------



## Azurel

It's all good man....no progress was ever made without a few set backs.....

Don't pull the plug on it.....it is a worthy effort and from what I have seen in pictures and video the cleanest conversion made....


----------



## bsr8129

The broken glass isn't that big of an issue. Simple solution is not to ship glass just the hinges and handle and maybe a template on where to attach them. Those that want glass with them work on a better way to ship the glass. Glass can be a pain to ship. 

For those of us with broken glass what is the best way to unattached the hinge and handle with out breaking them.


----------



## Jeremy M

I agree with what's being said, don't toss this idea yet. Since it seems you're marketing directly to the hobbyist through this site, it's completely fine for you to sell these without the glass, especially since it should reduce the cost of shipping as well. Now I wouldn't necessarily expect a site like junglebox to ship a kit of theirs without the glass, but feel that at this stage you're not catering to the same target group and there's nothing wrong with that. I know it wasn't your original plan, but lots of folks (including me!) would still love to buy a print without the glass. Unfortunately some things came up and I wasn't able to take part in the beta testing, but I'd still love to see this available in the future, especially if prices went down. It's still a streamlined design that works great for what it's designed to do. The idea of a template to guide hinge attachment is superb. 

If you decide to ship just the bare plastic (I hope you do!) I suggest sandwiching it between two panels of cardboard to keep it stiff, then packing that above and below with some cushioning like crushed newspaper, bubble wrap or packing popcorn. In theory this should keep the plastic from bending along an axis while still absorbing shock from careless handling that always seems to happen. Plus, without the weight of the glass to add extra stress, it shouldn't take so poorly to breaking during shipping.


----------



## Pubfiction

For future shipments I recommend putting them up on their side and stamping upright and fragile on them. This should not add to the cost they typically stamp them free at the post office and it will get the delivery guys to be less jerks. Some of these had to be thrown with how bad they broke and the Christmas season is the worst time to ship. 

Another thing is maybe shipping the doors installed isn't the best idea, maybe pull them out of the hinges and separate them or suspend them. I received a 30x24 inch mirror in a box not much thicker than the frog face shipped in. 

I disagree with others about not shipping glass. IMO the big advantage of the frog face is being a very low work plug and play solutions. Other vertical kit makers ship glass. Trying to be the cheapest maker is a race to the bottom that is impossible to win especially with the chosen manufacturing platform the goal of the frog face IMO should be the best solution that looks clean does everything with little to no modifications.


----------



## Mike1239

I was one of the lucky ones, FrogFace was in good shape. I would offer the FrogFace with or without the glass and the orders with glass get extra packing and insurance.


----------



## FroggyKnight

I just got mine and it arrived in decent shape although it did take a little damage from the busy holiday season. A couple of corners were chipped (one pretty deep), but it is still usable. It may be better to ship the glass separate from the plastic frame and give it a little more protection, since mine broke because the glass kept bumping into the frame during transit. It should also be labeled as "Fragile".

I don't think you should consider this a failure yet, Jae. If it's pulling you under financially I understand, but the project itself is great. Now that I have a FrogFace in hand, I like the design even more than before. I even like the red! If you can get your printing process to be more efficient, I think you can begin to profit on this or at least make your investment a little less hard on your wallet.

John


----------



## Dendro Dave

Bummer about the breakages. Here are some links that might be helpful...

*General searches and How to:*
https://www.google.com/search?q=fra...kKaVJzgKYHnoATEoYHIDQ&ved=0CAUQ_AUoAA&dpr=1.5

https://www.google.com/search?q=shi...41j1j4&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/how_to2.html
http://www.containerstore.com/experthelp/tips/packingFragileItems.html

Tips on Packaging Fragile Items for Worldwide Shipping | eBay

How to pack glass for shipping...so that it survives | eBay

What is the best way to package a glass picture frame for ground shipping

https://shiphawk.com/how-to-ship-something-fragile/

I Am So Fed Up With Shipping Stained Glass! - LeadTek Technical School - Stained Glass Town Square

How To Ship Big Stained Glass Panels - Gomm Stained Glass


Custom edge protection eliminates glass breakage | Packaging World


*Supplies/services:*

https://www.google.com/search?q=fla...26j1j4&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8

https://www.plastifoam.com/custom-packaging/foam-corner-protectors/

Packing Services & Shipping Supplies- FedEx Office Pack & Ship

ULINE - Shipping Boxes, Shipping Supplies, Packaging Materials, Packing Supplies

Custom Packaging Company, Custom Packing Company, Custom Shipping Company - The Packaging Store

_------_---------------------------------------------------

My guess is twisting or bending is responsible for the most breaks, so maybe a wood board inserted in the end and/or on one side would help without adding to much to cost? The foam corners would probably be handy tonic not using them yet.

Hope things get more profitable, and everyone enjoys their frogface... I'm envious 

Best wishes/ Happy holidays,
Dave


----------



## CrucialCrew_Justin

I am still very excited to use my FrogFace! A new piece of glass and some plastic weld and I'm 100%...


----------



## CrucialCrew_Justin

I took the broken glass out. Just testing the fit and... perfect! l love it! I'll get some new glass for it after the holidays. Great work Jae.


----------



## moore40

Six months in, what's shaking bro? How everyone that received one doing?


----------



## Rasagul

These are Fabutastic! I just wish I could take adavantage of one right now. You need to get on shark tank....


----------



## Weston

Konton: I do mold making and also work with a company that does 3D printing. If you get ready to try so,etching bigger talk to me. Injection moulding is super expensive and thanks to the 3d printing there are alternatives. I just oversaw a project in which we successfully did a 3D print and a successful test of an injection mold.


----------



## Weston

I could also recommend so e stronger, frog safe materials besides the pla


----------



## konton

Weston said:


> Konton: I do mold making and also work with a company that does 3D printing. If you get ready to try so,etching bigger talk to me. Injection moulding is super expensive and thanks to the 3d printing there are alternatives. I just oversaw a project in which we successfully did a 3D print and a successful test of an injection mold.


Thanks Weston. I'll have to PM you about that. But pretty much the FrogFaces are done. I've given up. Something so large is too hard to ship and print. So after dealing with problems at work and other life issues I decided to take a look back on this and come at the build a different way:






Let me know what you all think. No frame, easier to ship! And I think with silicone that bottom can be waterproof!


----------



## EightBiht

wow, I love that design. When can I get one, and how much? 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## davecalk

Jae,

I have been following your thread. As a kindred spirit, inventor, I have enjoyed reading about your experiments and designs. 

I think that your conversion kit is an excellent way to go. Making the top and sides modular greatly improves things.

1. It simplifies and speeds up printing process, leading to less printing failures.


2. Your redesigning the hinges / latch side so that they attach to the side of the aquarium / lid of the tank is a great idea.

Design the hinge so that it can be mounted to a standard piece of glass that anyone can purchase at their location so that there is no shipping of glass. Saving shipping expense and damaged glass.​
Using a small machine thread screw would greatly strengthen the pin. I like your original design it so the pin sticks up. I thought that being able to lift it off as needed was excellent.

Having the hinges and latch side modular also allows people to purchase and longer thus taller tanks which is better for marketing / sales. They can order 2 hinges or 3 with a taller / longer tank, and your design doesn't have to change.


3. Consider modifying the venting a bit so that it would accept a piece of plastic so a person can experiment / limit the amount of venting and loss of humidity that takes place in a tank.


4. Maybe print a piece of plastic that could completely cover the vent. 
Print it so that it has groves that can be easily cut or snapped thereby increasing / decreasing the amount of ventilation that is exposed. That way people could change the amount of ventilation needed which would vary greatly depending on where a person lives.


5. I might consider putting 3 holes in them along the top, one in the middle and one on each end. 
to simplify the printing, consider not putting the grid in the holes. (you would not lose that much venting.) Printing may be simpler, quicker, but I don't know.



6. I would also place holes, middle and ends at the bottom as well. This would allow for bulkheads for drainage, holes for electrical for pumps, etc.

Making the holes a uniform diameter which would allow for misting heads to be placed in the middle or on one or both ends. The holes could also be used to allow cords for internal fans, internal pumps for water features, etc. ​
Then just tell folks the size of the drill bit they need to use to open up the hole to be used as a mister, or an electrical cord etc.


7. The magnetic stop that holds the door closed was great. Making some form that is modular that would attach to the glass like the hinge you designed would be a great feature that most folks would want. Being modular would also allow folks to purchase as many catches as they need depending on the size of the door.



8. Consider printing an attachment that could be mounted to the tank's internal plastic frame so it could hold a computer fan would be a great option to sell separately. Fans are mostly uniform in sizes so again people could buy and install their own. You could print it with vent holes, or to speed printing and save material folks could just silicone a piece of screen over each face of the fan. This wold be needed to prevent frogs from getting into the blades. Lastly it would be nice to have a way of articulating the direction that it blows.


9. I would go back to experimenting with the ABS plastic. 

a. It is safe and it is waterproof:

It has been used in the plumbing industry a very long time.​

b. ABS can be welded with simple solvents that anyone can get at the local hardware store. This allows one to make repairs if something gets damaged.

c. Sheet good of ABS can easily be purchased and glued to the lower section if someone does not want to use and potentially cut glass.

d. Also ABS drills very easily.

e. ABS pipe or sheet goods can be heated in the oven to mold and shape the pieces. I have done this many times.​
10. Consider looking into LED Strip lighting. Design and print an attachment that would hold and cover the LED Strip lights that come in rolls, so they could be installed and light the inside of the tank but would look great from the outside.



Jae,
As you can see, there is a great deal of interest in you, your product, and your designs. Don't give up on the frog face, just modify so that the parts are modular, it so it is simpler to print and ship.

You have very good ideas. Keep at it.


----------



## AbeV

davecalk said:


> Jae,
> 
> I have been following your thread. As a kindred spirit, inventor, I have enjoyed reading about your experiments and designs.
> 
> I think that your conversion kit is an excellent way to go. Making the top and sides modular greatly improves things.
> 
> 1. It simplifies and speeds up printing process, leading to less printing failures.
> 
> 
> 2. Your redesigning the hinges / latch side so that they attach to the side of the aquarium / lid of the tank is a great idea.
> 
> Design the hinge so that it can be mounted to a standard piece of glass that anyone can purchase at their location so that there is no shipping of glass. Saving shipping expense and damaged glass.​
> Using a small machine thread screw would greatly strengthen the pin. I like your original design it so the pin sticks up. I thought that being able to lift it off as needed was excellent.
> 
> Having the hinges and latch side modular also allows people to purchase and longer thus taller tanks which is better for marketing / sales. They can order 2 hinges or 3 with a taller / longer tank, and your design doesn't have to change.
> 
> 
> 3. Consider modifying the venting a bit so that it would accept a piece of plastic so a person can experiment / limit the amount of venting and loss of humidity that takes place in a tank.
> 
> 
> 4. Maybe print a piece of plastic that could completely cover the vent.
> Print it so that it has groves that can be easily cut or snapped thereby increasing / decreasing the amount of ventilation that is exposed. That way people could change the amount of ventilation needed which would vary greatly depending on where a person lives.
> 
> 
> 5. I might consider putting 3 holes in them along the top, one in the middle and one on each end.
> to simplify the printing, consider not putting the grid in the holes. (you would not lose that much venting.) Printing may be simpler, quicker, but I don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. I would also place holes, middle and ends at the bottom as well. This would allow for bulkheads for drainage, holes for electrical for pumps, etc.
> 
> Making the holes a uniform diameter which would allow for misting heads to be placed in the middle or on one or both ends. The holes could also be used to allow cords for internal fans, internal pumps for water features, etc. ​
> Then just tell folks the size of the drill bit they need to use to open up the hole to be used as a mister, or an electrical cord etc.
> 
> 
> 7. The magnetic stop that holds the door closed was great. Making some form that is modular that would attach to the glass like the hinge you designed would be a great feature that most folks would want. Being modular would also allow folks to purchase as many catches as they need depending on the size of the door.
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Consider printing an attachment that could be mounted to the tank's internal plastic frame so it could hold a computer fan would be a great option to sell separately. Fans are mostly uniform in sizes so again people could buy and install their own. You could print it with vent holes, or to speed printing and save material folks could just silicone a piece of screen over each face of the fan. This wold be needed to prevent frogs from getting into the blades. Lastly it would be nice to have a way of articulating the direction that it blows.
> 
> 
> 9. I would go back to experimenting with the ABS plastic.
> 
> a. It is safe and it is waterproof:
> 
> It has been used in the plumbing industry a very long time.​
> 
> b. ABS can be welded with simple solvents that anyone can get at the local hardware store. This allows one to make repairs if something gets damaged.
> 
> c. Sheet good of ABS can easily be purchased and glued to the lower section if someone does not want to use and potentially cut glass.
> 
> d. Also ABS drills very easily.
> 
> e. ABS pipe or sheet goods can be heated in the oven to mold and shape the pieces. I have done this many times.​
> 10. Consider looking into LED Strip lighting. Design and print an attachment that would hold and cover the LED Strip lights that come in rolls, so they could be installed and light the inside of the tank but would look great from the outside.
> 
> 
> 
> Jae,
> As you can see, there is a great deal of interest in you, your product, and your designs. Don't give up on the frog face, just modify so that the parts are modular, it so it is simpler to print and ship.
> 
> You have very good ideas. Keep at it.


Recently I built a 10 gallon vert as a "practice" build to work out any construction problems before trying to convert a more expensive tank. The two biggest problems I came across was the hinge and latch. I used a living hinge for the door but it came out horrible, which caused an issue with the latch.

I threw this together to keep the door closed and so far it's worked out fairly well. It's a magnetic clasp I found at a craft store in the sewing section. The main piece is epoxied to the frame, and the other is attached to a plastic piece bent with a heat gun. 

Maybe something like this will help inspire a latch design for your project.







































Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## konton

Abe,

Thanks for the response. Got the latch worked out. What do you think?






Dave, 

1. Sadly the modular system actually doubled the printing time, but is a cleaner look, easier to print, and in the long run easier to ship without breakage.

2. Thanks! I think there are advantages. It's now using an M5 45mm bolt. Technically you can still lift it off if I remove the nut and washer from the system. But then it would be much looser.

Sadly Aqueon 20g and 40g frames are thicker. So the design does have to change. Next time there is a $1 gallon sale I'll pick some up for testing.


3. More parts, more cost. But in theory I should be able to make a thin channel in the back you could cut some thin plastic to cover. Most people wants the hole back for misting. I'm looking into it.

4. That's why I need beta testers. I'm not even sure I want vents at the bottom! 

5. If I have holes, I need a way to cover the holes. And easy print actually, but hard for mass production. Anyway, once these are injection molded, anyone can just drill a hole if they need it, like they would in a bucket or any other plastic container. Way easier to do than glass.

At the end of the day it becomes a matter of what someone would pay to have these, and where the costs need to be cut. I do appreciate all the suggestions. Believe me, most of these I considered in the building process.


----------



## AbeV

konton said:


> Abe,
> 
> Thanks for the response. Got the latch worked out. What do you think?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcyZCeCZgRg
> 
> Dave,
> 
> 1. Sadly the modular system actually doubled the printing time, but is a cleaner look, easier to print, and in the long run easier to ship without breakage.
> 
> 2. Thanks! I think there are advantages. It's now using an M5 45mm bolt. Technically you can still lift it off if I remove the nut and washer from the system. But then it would be much looser.
> 
> Sadly Aqueon 20g and 40g frames are thicker. So the design does have to change. Next time there is a $1 gallon sale I'll pick some up for testing.
> 
> 
> 3. More parts, more cost. But in theory I should be able to make a thin channel in the back you could cut some thin plastic to cover. Most people wants the hole back for misting. I'm looking into it.
> 
> 4. That's why I need beta testers. I'm not even sure I want vents at the bottom!
> 
> 5. If I have holes, I need a way to cover the holes. And easy print actually, but hard for mass production. Anyway, once these are injection molded, anyone can just drill a hole if they need it, like they would in a bucket or any other plastic container. Way easier to do than glass.
> 
> At the end of the day it becomes a matter of what someone would pay to have these, and where the costs need to be cut. I do appreciate all the suggestions. Believe me, most of these I considered in the building process.


Nice job man, I like it.

If there was any critiquing to be given, I would say it's a little bulky for me, but that's just a personal style preference. 
As far as design, functionality, concept 10/10. Great job.

If you don't mind me asking. What is your cost to make something like the latch? Just curious, as I have no clue what goes into 3D printing. I'm a furniture designer/builder myself, and completely understand if you don't want to disclose that type of info. 

Take care,
-A



Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk


----------



## dow

Looks like a good design to me. I like that the hinges and latch mount to the existing frame. Have you had an opportunity to measure a 20gallon frame to see how it compares to the 10g?

In the event that you have, and they're the same, I'd be glad to test them out for you, as I'm getting ready to do a vert build (my first) The tank I'll be using is an aqueon 20H. Measurements are 24-1/2 x 12-1/2 x 16-3/4 (LWH).


----------



## Nismo95

J, we have talked numerous times since you first brought out the original frogface design. So you know my true love is the original you made for the 10's. I sent you a message via facebook today to talk about bringing that design back for some 20 highs.. I will front some money to make that happen.. With that being said..

This new design.. that door latch, do you see that being a problem with opening once these are side by side on a rack? Does that latch sit far enough outside the rim that its not even close to being in the way of a neighboring tank? The simplicity of this is spot on, and it looks easy enough. there was just something about that full framed frogface that I absolutely loved. 

Brandon


----------



## konton

First, no. racks are a non issue. I made these for racks. I even made feet for the tanks, but that's something that fell to the wayside. Think of it this way. Racks are 48" wide. Let's say 46" if you have the poles in the way. That leaves 11.5" for tanks that are 10" wide. So the extra 12mm I add is not a big deal.

Second, had to backtrack. An eight hour print that sticks at hour 7 is a problem. So I went modular, switched to Inland ABS and PLA plastic, and added a bit of customization so you could add a little color, change venting, drop in some misting holes, and even add the names of your frogs. Presenting the new Custom FrogFace!






Last, these don't fit on the side of a 20 or 40 gallon. I have to make new versions for those. In fact the 20H is a little looser than the 20L. So while it's on the horizon, I need to get the 10 gallons done first. But don't worry, I have a 20H, 20L, and 40B sitting in my basement for testing on.


----------



## Nismo95

considering ive only been bugging you for the better part of 9+ months via PM's and facebook I think its only fair I get first dibs on beta testing your 40B versions  hahaha. I also want to try a 20H when those do come around!


----------



## bsr8129

any chance you will be just selling the hinges, as i want to retro fit some current 10gals to side opening doors, that already have the bottom glass and top vents in it.


----------



## HistoCrazy

very nice work. impressive.


----------



## ukewarrior

The advantage of keeping the glass is that glass is very forgiving with silicone.
You can take a very sharp scraper to it and have it survive. The PLA would tend to get cut and roughed up by a blade. It's also very inexpensive. 

I too love the magnets, but would like to know why you can't do both magnets and a latch? 

Nice work, I'd love to see your setup when you are in Detroit.
If you are open to visitors, please PM me as I also do a lot of maker type projects.


----------



## konton

Nismo95 said:


> considering ive only been bugging you for the better part of 9+ months via PM's and facebook I think its only fair I get first dibs on beta testing your 40B versions  hahaha. I also want to try a 20H when those do come around!


That's next on the list. And if I made hinges first, you get first dibs. Those i can make faster than anything else.



bsr8129 said:


> any chance you will be just selling the hinges, as i want to retro fit some current 10gals to side opening doors, that already have the bottom glass and top vents in it.


I might have a couple around the house. I assume you want them in black? The bigger issue is I'm out of low profile screws and so if my vendor.



HistoCrazy said:


> very nice work. impressive.


Thanks. I shouldn't be working on it. I'm overloaded at the office.



ukewarrior said:


> The advantage of keeping the glass is that glass is very forgiving with silicone.
> You can take a very sharp scraper to it and have it survive. The PLA would tend to get cut and roughed up by a blade. It's also very inexpensive.
> 
> I too love the magnets, but would like to know why you can't do both magnets and a latch?
> 
> Nice work, I'd love to see your setup when you are in Detroit.
> If you are open to visitors, please PM me as I also do a lot of maker type projects.


Actually the silicone just pulls off PLA. Maybe because of the rubber covering. But I've moved over to a glass bottom with I agree is stronger.

My last design change will incorporate the the hinges into the vents, and add what's left of my magnets (currently being used as toys for my kids and ways to keep things on the fridge. The negative of this is that the glass can't be removed.


----------



## konton

ukewarrior said:


> Nice work, I'd love to see your setup when you are in Detroit.
> If you are open to visitors, please PM me as I also do a lot of maker type projects.


Setup? Meaning what? I'm hoping next week I can finish a version with magnets, but usually it's my weekend work.


----------



## bsr8129

I prefer them in black, I can wait till the screws are in stock, I have had the flip down for years now so a few weeks or months more wont be no biggie. 

Also are the hinges made for a certain Mfg of the tanks? I know the original frogface only fit one of the Mfgs and not the other because of dimensions


----------



## konton

bsr8129 said:


> I prefer them in black, I can wait till the screws are in stock, I have had the flip down for years now so a few weeks or months more wont be no biggie.
> 
> Also are the hinges made for a certain Mfg of the tanks? I know the original frogface only fit one of the Mfgs and not the other because of dimensions


Yeah, I moved over to Aqueon since Petco is back to selling them.


----------



## TJ_Burton

konton said:


> Yeah, I moved over to Aqueon since Petco is back to selling them.


How far off are Aqueon from Tetra/Marineland?


----------



## konton

Quite a bit of a difference. But once I'm done with the 10, 20 and 40 this week I can look into versions for tetra, and grreat choice. Right now I'm still test printing.










Of course I'm continuing to tweak stuff. Now that my new tro of 3D printers is working, I was also able to purchase heatbeds. I haven't installed them, but they would let me print in PETG plastic, which as you know is FDA approved safe. Not sure how much that's worth to anyone. 

I'm also considering changing to 3/32" glass so the weight of a 24"x12" piece as the door for a 20 long won't be so much weight on the hinges.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

I really like these though I'd rather you just tell me the dimensions of the glass and I get it cut. 
Would be cool to provide 2 options. 1 the complete kit with glass and 2 just the 3D printed components. This would also help tremendously with shipping. 
As for whether or not it's fruit fly proof well I read on the video comments and you said it still needed to be tested. I'd rather just have some slightly larger holes then just adhere some stainless mesh on the inside of the vent piece. Or maybe you could design something where a piece of stainless mesh can be placed and a inner frame snaps the mesh into place or have it to where some mesh can be pressed into place like have 4 walls around where the vent holes were then the mesh can be cut and just wedged into place.
I know you wanna sell complete kits but options are always good  

Looking back at earlier designs I saw this and when I do my own custom builds it would be cool to have a piece like this that I could put where I want.









I'm planning on building a 20 long and wanna do a sherman vent but don't wanna mess with all that glass cutting and such it would be much easier just to have a piece like this I can just put in place and epoxy it between my glass and door tracks. I would be able to wedge stainless steel mesh into each part of the vent openings. So the holes would need to be a bit larger. 

Anyways just doing a bit of brainstorming


----------



## konton

You are the only one. Everyone else wants glass. Seriously. No one wanted to buy until I offered with glass. 

The new vents are .5mm in width as slates. So I'd say they are pretty fruit fly proof. 

After for epoxying, why can't you do that with my current vents? Just don't put the hinges on.



DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I really like these though I'd rather you just tell me the dimensions of the glass and I get it cut.
> Would be cool to provide 2 options. 1 the complete kit with glass and 2 just the 3D printed components. This would also help tremendously with shipping.
> As for whether or not it's fruit fly proof well I read on the video comments and you said it still needed to be tested. I'd rather just have some slightly larger holes then just adhere some stainless mesh on the inside of the vent piece. Or maybe you could design something where a piece of stainless mesh can be placed and a inner frame snaps the mesh into place or have it to where some mesh can be pressed into place like have 4 walls around where the vent holes were then the mesh can be cut and just wedged into place.
> I know you wanna sell complete kits but options are always good
> 
> Looking back at earlier designs I saw this and when I do my own custom builds it would be cool to have a piece like this that I could put where I want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm planning on building a 20 long and wanna do a sherman vent but don't wanna mess with all that glass cutting and such it would be much easier just to have a piece like this I can just put in place and epoxy it between my glass and door tracks. I would be able to wedge stainless steel mesh into each part of the vent openings. So the holes would need to be a bit larger.
> 
> Anyways just doing a bit of brainstorming


----------



## bsr8129

I would buy it with out glass, and almost think its easier that way. If i know the size i can easily get a piece from lowes cut to that size.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

konton said:


> The new vents are .5mm in width as slates. So I'd say they are pretty fruit fly proof.
> 
> After for epoxying, why can't you do that with my current vents? Just don't put the hinges on.


Because I am not doing a vert convert. I am going to be pulling off the frame and laying the tank on it's side and I will be using the top if the tank as the front.
I plan on putting a pane if glass at the bottom then the vent then door tracking or I'd put the vent on top. The v2 won't suit my needs without some changes.
I'd rather just have a flat, flush vent.

As far as the vents go I'm worried since they are so small and restricted they won't be as affective as a fully open stainless mesh vent. It would just provide more air flow.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII using tapatalk


----------



## Dendro Dave

I've been outta the loop for awhile. Has there been any progress on using waterproof materials or waterproofing whatever material is being currently used?


----------



## Smotz

ok here's my money 

Seriously - when Can I buy?


----------



## dow

konton said:


> You are the only one. Everyone else wants glass. Seriously. No one wanted to buy until I offered with glass.


Jae,

While that may be true of the people that you spoke with, I'm sure that it isn't the case for everyone. When I first saw this thread, I had never done a conversion, and was very much looking for a "turn-key" solution. Not finding one available at the time, however, led me to build one myself. Now that I've done that, I know that I can do it again. That being said, I am still very much interested in your conversion kits, but would be more than happy with just the hardware and your recommended glass measurements. May I recommend a possible solution? 


Offer the complete conversion kit as you've been doing with the glass. This would satisfy the "turn-key" folks and newbies who are hesitant to tackle glass measuring and cutting or who, like me, are just plain lazy. 
Offer a "get your own glass" kit with the hardware and glass measurements. This would allow those of us who are comfortable with handling glass to get whatever glass we wanted (3/32" or 1/8"), save on shipping for you, and eliminate the chance of a kit arriving at the buyer's house with broken glass.

Might be worth looking into, anyway.


----------



## Smotz

Can I but a kit without the glass? I can easily go to Lowes and have it cut.

10g for starters, please?


----------



## nrbelk

This thread was really interesting. I have the rostock max v2 with a e3d aftermarket hot end. I'm planning on using it extensively while converting my 300 gallon reef aquarium into a paludarium.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Looks like I'm not the only one who would want the kit without the glass 
I'ts not just the fact the glass might break it's also the fact that without the glass the package size can be reduce quite a bit shipped quite a bit cheaper. 

Also still interested in getting a custom vent made for my 20long build


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

dow said:


> Jae,
> 
> While that may be true of the people that you spoke with, I'm sure that it isn't the case for everyone. When I first saw this thread, I had never done a conversion, and was very much looking for a "turn-key" solution. Not finding one available at the time, however, led me to build one myself. Now that I've done that, I know that I can do it again. That being said, I am still very much interested in your conversion kits, but would be more than happy with just the hardware and your recommended glass measurements. May I recommend a possible solution?
> 
> 
> Offer the complete conversion kit as you've been doing with the glass. This would satisfy the "turn-key" folks and newbies who are hesitant to tackle glass measuring and cutting or who, like me, are just plain lazy.
> Offer a "get your own glass" kit with the hardware and glass measurements. This would allow those of us who are comfortable with handling glass to get whatever glass we wanted (3/32" or 1/8"), save on shipping for you, and eliminate the chance of a kit arriving at the buyer's house with broken glass.
> 
> Might be worth looking into, anyway.


I've already mentioned this but choosing your own thickness of glass wouldn't be a good idea since the hinges are printed to work with a specific thickness if you used a thicker or thinner glass I'm sure there would be issues with the hinge going on flush and whatnot. Since he mentioned double strength glass in his videos I'm sure 1/8" glass is actually preferred and sadly Lowes and whatnot doesn't have have 1/8" their glass is thinner.


----------



## dow

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I've already mentioned this but choosing your own thickness of glass wouldn't be a good idea since the hinges are printed to work with a specific thickness if you used a thicker or thinner glass I'm sure there would be issues with the hinge going on flush and whatnot. Since he mentioned double strength glass in his videos I'm sure 1/8" glass is actually preferred and sadly Lowes and whatnot doesn't have have 1/8" their glass is thinner.


True, the box stores only have the thinner stuff, but regular glass companies do have true 1/8" glass.


----------



## bsr8129

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I've already mentioned this but choosing your own thickness of glass wouldn't be a good idea since the hinges are printed to work with a specific thickness if you used a thicker or thinner glass I'm sure there would be issues with the hinge going on flush and whatnot. Since he mentioned double strength glass in his videos I'm sure 1/8" glass is actually preferred and sadly Lowes and whatnot doesn't have have 1/8" their glass is thinner.


I would think it would still sit flush, and the hinged is glued onto the glass and the side of the tank. But Jae would have to confirm this.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

bsr8129 said:


> I would think it would still sit flush, and the hinged is glued onto the glass and the side of the tank. But Jae would have to confirm this.


No the glue holds the glass to the hinge and the hinge is held on by a screw that connects to the vent assembly...


----------



## bsr8129

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> No the glue holds the glass to the hinge and the hinge is held on by a screw that connects to the vent assembly...


I stand corrected, Must have been thinking about a different version then. I think i like the other version better, easier to retro-fit already made verticals. Jea lee really needs to stop teasing us and release these.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

bsr8129 said:


> I stand corrected, Must have been thinking about a different version then. I think i like the other version better, easier to retro-fit already made verticals. Jea lee really needs to stop teasing us and release these.


I prefer this version instead of the full front FrogFace. Very simple instillation.


----------



## dow

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I prefer this version instead of the full front FrogFace. Very simple instillation.


Ditto.

ten characters.


----------



## konton

So weird to see my own videos reposted. 

*DESIGN:* To be sure people are aware, these conversion kits are for recent Aqueon 10leader, 20high, and 20long aquariums. The final product will be all in black, with the backs sprayed with Plasti-dip for waterproofing and safety.

And yeah, I do redesigns all the time. I've done three in the last two days. There are a dozen problems I want to solve from being able to find your own glass to easy gluing to best shipping options. And if you live near by you are welcome to all my wasted test prints. Here's some of them.










*GLASS:* I have moved over to 3/32" (2.5mm) single strength glass this week. So it's simple for anyone to get the glass themselves. I'm testing it now. I like how it's much lighter for a 20long door. The hinges have also been widened to maintain the weight.

Sizing for the bottom glass and front door is: 
10leader --- 252mm x 120mm and 318mm x 240mm
20high --- 300mm x 120mm and 410mm x 288mm
20long --- 300mm x 120mm and 568mm x 288mm

These numbers are subject to change, but that's what I tested them at today.










*VENTS:* The .5mm slates as vents have done well to maintain humidity. I moved the 17mm easy cutout hole into middle for a misting head, and added a 5mm easy cutout hole to one side for other stuff you may want the option to stick into the tank (wires for fans, aeration tubes, etc.). I tested having a removable mount for the bottom glass, but it proved more costly than valuable.










*HINGES, HANDLES, and LATCHES:* They are green in the photos just so you can see them. Everything will be in black when I'm done. The hinges and handle will need to be glued to the glass on opposite sides. homax professional welder adhesive has worked best for me to connect ploy plastic to glass, but I'd love to get other opinions for better options. I'd use epoxy, except I can't just screw the cap back on when I'm done to use later.

One change I'm looking to implement are to place m5 hinges holes on both sides of the vent. Then when tightly screwed into place, it would keep the hinges and handles from moving out of place while the adhesive is hardening to the glass. In fact m5 screw could actually replace the latches, allowing someone to fasten the door shut with an m5 nut and bolt.

*PREORDERS:* Not up yet. I promise to have it in February. As before, the 10 gallons are $40 which includes shipping, and 20 gallons are $60 which includes shipping. Pricing may get better if I can find a solution other than USPS flat rate boxes which costs me $13.45 for the 10g and $18.75 for the 20g. I'll look into what I can price at for just the parts and no glass. Obviously, shipping will be cheaper since I wont need giant boxes and so much flat foam, but I still need to find custom boxes that fit.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185

Wow it really looks great, Jae. 
I think it's gonna be a great product for the hobby.

My worries for the vent size wasn't for retaining humidity but for actual air exchange. Never seen vents on vivs with such tight airflow.


----------



## Smotz

I would like to see a version that uses lowes glass (not sure of the thickness).

Makes it easier..


----------



## konton

So I'm looking into shipping options for parts only. I went out and ordered a bunch of 15" shipping tubes. But I fear it appears anything over 12" in length is more than $12 to ship. So it doesn't appear to be useful. But the tubes are coming either way. So for those interested, I'll test these for shipping parts only in the next 2 weeks.


----------



## TheCoop

The disign is nice and looks very functional, but to me it just looks too cheap as far as finish goes. No disrespect intended.


----------



## Dane

How much airflow are you getting through the vents? Maybe it's just the angle of the picture, but it looks like the actual open area must be miniscule.


----------



## Pubfiction

The finish is not amazing but its kind of cool. I would liken it to brushed steel vs polished. At any rate I tend to think that the people in the market for vertical conversions are less concerned with a good finish then getting a job done fast for the right price. The one I have definitely looks better than the typical conversion kits. If people are looking for a good looking vivarium they usually opt for the exo terra or similar pre built models. 

The other group of people I would see as interested in this product are those that just want a complete dart frog ready vivarium without much work. because with out going to custom builders we still don't really have such an option yet as even exo terras take some work on the top.


----------



## scapegoat

these are fantastic.

I have a printer myself, and the work you've put into this is amazing. I may have missed it, but do you have an engineering background?

I've done a little research into the breakdown of PLA, and it appears to only be at high temps... we're talking compost level heat. So there shouldn't be an issue in an vivarium of the PLA breaking down. And it is certainly a better alternative to ABS.

I have a 20g Long that I am using, and am not tilting it... but I might look into putting a click together vent since my build area is only 10x10x10.

awesome job.


----------



## konton

Hey Dane! Are you still in business? I keep asking myself why I bother with all of this when you have an awesome product. I think I just wanted an easier want to mount the misting head and screw on parts to the tank. Plus a side opening door.

The vents you're seeing are geared towards 90% humidity. When increased by .5mm humidity goes down to 60% and fruit flies escape. But it's easy to change switch up for who needs it. I know you prefer more venting. I always preferred less.

TheCoop and Pubfiction! If it were up to me I'd print in copper to do a sweet steampunk look. I could do this with a carbon fiber additive, or even bamboo! I'd sand it down and finish it with a clear coat plasti-dip to keep anything unwanted out of the tank. But this would cost way more (metal that is. I do the plasti-dip coat for everything). And at this time my design changes are attempts to keep costs down and long term engineer these for large scale production. I know injection molding would be the best way to go for these and that costs thousands I don't have. I see kickstarter in the future.

Scapegoat, PLA is biodegradable and does melt at lower temps than some other plastics, but not at temps you keep around frogs. I am looking at 3D printing in PETG but it's going to be a while before I can make it happen. I still have snap-in vents if you're interested.

As for FrogFaces, I'm about ready to start pre-sales on Monday. Finally. We designers always tend to spend too long tweaking our designs. But it's finished!


----------



## Bunsincunsin

Well done, Jae; those look really nice.


----------



## Boondoggle

That's a nice looking product Jai.


----------



## Dane

konton said:


> Hey Dane! Are you still in business? I keep asking myself why I bother with all of this when you have an awesome product. I think I just wanted an easier want to mount the misting head and screw on parts to the tank. Plus a side opening door.
> 
> The vents you're seeing are geared towards 90% humidity. When increased by .5mm humidity goes down to 60% and fruit flies escape. But it's easy to change switch up for who needs it. I know you prefer more venting. I always preferred less.


Hi Jae! I'm technically 'out of business', but I do still produce a few JungleBox kits from time to time for my own use, or on request. Your production methods open up a world of possibilities that my materials couldn't touch, and I've been very excited to see the progression of your designs! 
I'm certainly not posting to diminish how clean and functional your kits look. It's about time that a manufactured kit came on the market, and with the ease that your plastic could be drilled or routed out, the customer could certainly modify them if need be.
Just out of curiosity, how much print time is spent on producing the openings?


----------



## SLEEPiNG GiRL

These look great. Will you be shipping internationally?

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk


----------



## konton

Not at this time. But I don't think you'd want it. Your aquariums are a different size.




SLEEPiNG GiRL said:


> These look great. Will you be shipping internationally?
> 
> Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk


----------



## konton

Hey Dane,

As I said, you had a great product. It's simplicity made it work well. I'm overdoing mine a bit and it's adding to the cost. I've decided I'm going to add a silicone tube, hex tool, and mounting tape into the kit. People don't consider it also takes a day to print the product, plus labor. And even then, most of the cost is in shipping. I don't even remember what your shipping costs were. Can you tell me? I'm trying to figure out how to reduce those costs, but they are big pieces of glass!

Oh, and I thought you might like this. I went with two options for venting. 









These are ready for all three sizes:









Selling now for presale at Frog Cube | Preorder Now



Dane said:


> Hi Jae! I'm technically 'out of business', but I do still produce a few JungleBox kits from time to time for my own use, or on request. Your production methods open up a world of possibilities that my materials couldn't touch, and I've been very excited to see the progression of your designs!
> I'm certainly not posting to diminish how clean and functional your kits look. It's about time that a manufactured kit came on the market, and with the ease that your plastic could be drilled or routed out, the customer could certainly modify them if need be.
> Just out of curiosity, how much print time is spent on producing the openings?


----------



## SLEEPiNG GiRL

I was thinking more for something custom made, but no problem.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk


----------



## konton

For a little bit of fine detail, you can see vents closeup. These are custom made with my 3D printers over a 6 hour build each . Don't expect a perfect finish. But here you can see how thin my venting is for high humidity, vs mesh covered portholes (still waiting for the actual stainless steel mesh to arrive).










I'm printing in bright test colors so you can see this detail, as black has a tendency to hide all the rough edges. I'm curious why type of venting most like: slatted or portholes.


----------



## myersboy6

So I've been following this thread for a while and just now coming back to it. Looks like you have come a long way since the first prototype and I will have to say I really like this version you have simple and easy. Do you have any more prototype that I can get in on for a 20h? My wife is doing her first build and I told her about your product and she would love to try one out for her first tank. Let me know! 
Thanks! Keep up the awesome work!


----------



## myersboy6

So are these going to be available any time soon?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## mudbug

They are available, however they are moving to a new location at this time. You can go to their website and enter your email address to be notified when they are back in operation. The website says they will reopen in September, obviously it's November. You'll have to contact them.


----------



## viper69

I contacted them - good
luck getting a response.


----------



## mudbug

Yes, I had a difficult time just figuring out how to contact them, as I had questions about the product prior to purchase. Later when I had issues with the product I couldn't remember what I had to do to contact them. So I just gave up.

BTW: I have to say I really can't recommend this product (others may have had a better experience than mine). But in my opinion there are better options.


----------



## Damon Ryan

I got one of these for free and haven't gotten around to using it, it's blue with mesh holes. I would like to trade/get a black vented one instead. I may be able to find contact info also...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bsr8129

He stated on FB that he had some life changing moments, and would get back online next year. 

I have one of the first prototypes and really like it, and wish he would have kept with that design and stayed with this project. 

I really like the swing open style door as apposed to the flip down in almost all conversion kits and was hoping to retro fit some old tanks to this new style. 

It does really suck when someone comes out with a good product then just walks away from it.


----------



## viper69

mudbug said:


> Yes, I had a difficult time just figuring out how to contact them, as I had questions about the product prior to purchase. Later when I had issues with the product I couldn't remember what I had to do to contact them. So I just gave up.
> 
> BTW: I have to say I really can't recommend this product (others may have had a better experience than mine). But in my opinion there are better options.


I contacted him BEFORE he had an official webstore. I thought the design looked very good from pics etc. Well that was maybe a year ago hah...

PM me, I'd like to see these other options, thanks in advance.


----------



## myersboy6

well that just sucks.. I was hoping to get 3 of these kits for some 20 highs i am building out right now. This design is wayyy better than the rest in my opinion


----------



## Phantastic

mudbug if you don't mind me asking, can you possibly point me to any of the better options you're referring to? Or do you just mean there are better options for DIYing it? I haven't been able to find any places that are still selling conversion kits. I just DIYed my way through two conversions to get my gargoyles into larger habitats and honestly I'm kind of terrified I've screwed them up, I would so love to just have a kit I could pop in and put all the actual effort into the background and stuff.


----------



## eros

How much? Im very interested


----------

