# Mint Terrib Odd Eating Behavior



## qtrhorse89 (Jun 25, 2012)

Okay I don't usually make posts when I have questions because the search function usually answers them for me. However, after an unproductive search on a problem I have been having I give up and am making a post. 

*Tank Stats*

24X18X18 Exoterra with glass top

Temps range from 68 at night to 74 during the day

Misted lightly once a day, humidity ranges from 85-90%

Plants: Pothos, misc. ferns, two species of peperomia, a succulent plant I don't know the name of, and 5 bromeliads

Substrate: AGB mix, sphagnum moss, magnolia leaves

Hiding: cocohut, half a log, and of course they chill out under or on top of plants as well as in leaf litter

Occupants: Three 8 month old Mint Terribs 

Feeding: Melanogaster flies once a day dusted with rephashy calcium plus (I've been meaning to get them started on pinhead crickets I think they are big enough now)

Observed Frog Behavior: Typical for juvenile frogs, still a little shy when they see humans but I have observed all three use every bit of space in the tank, they hang out with one another so no territorial issues observed (doesn't mean there isn't any), I always see every frog at least once a day

*The Problem*

There has always been one frog who is smaller than the other two. I have always kept a close eye on him to make sure he was eating and not being picked on. He is not skinny but he is also not fat as compared to the other two. For reference his stomach and sides are flat but not concave, there is an obvious fat reserve in the upper hind legs (most "skinny" frogs I have observed have frightfully thin hind legs). I am capable of seeing the two bumps or ridges in the lower quadrant of the back that if I recall my frog anatomy correctly would be part of the hip structure. He has grown while in my care. He is the shyest of the three and therefore the hardest to observe especially when feeding. A few days ago I poured their flies in and saw him lunge for a fly, his tongue came out and stayed out, it seemed to take him a few seconds to get it back into his mouth, he did not catch the fly. At first I thought he simply missed or caught a piece of substrate by mistake but I have seen this behavior multiple times over the past few days and am now concerned that it may be a legitimate issue and the possible reason why he is smaller than his siblings. It almost looks like he is feeding in slow motion. His tongue comes out at the right speed but he has trouble retracting it. He must be eating something since he is not actively losing weight but he is certainly not gaining it at the rate of the other juvies who live with him. He is unfortunately hard to observe as he does not seem to like being watched while eating. The other two have no issues with this and eat just fine with me standing there. He refuses to show interest in his food until I step several feet away from his tank making it difficult to observe what is going on. I am reluctant to remove him from the tank for closer observation since I do not wish to aggravate the condition with stress, especially since he appears to be eating to some degree. 

The search function was unfortunately not very helpful. I found several posts on regurgitated stomachs but this is obviously his tongue (long, skinny) and he gets it back into his mouth relatively quickly just not as quickly as would be expected. The closest I could get was possibly short tongue syndrome as a result of Vit. A deficiency. However, there was no mention of lag in feeding response or trouble retracting the tongue with this, only a decrease in prey capture. That being said it could certainly be the problem. I was misinformed that Repashy Calcium + contained the Vit. A that the frogs needed. I have ordered the Vit. A supplement from a vendor and will dose it when it arrives. The frogs have been in my care for about a month and a half. All of them have put on weight and size since I have had them including the sick one just not to the degree of the others. I am unsure which supplements the breeder used. 

So now that I have written you all a novel, has anyone seen this behavior before in a frog or have any idea as to what could be the problem? Any suggestions would be most helpful. I tried to anticipate all of the environmental and husbandry information you guys might need but if I was remiss in mentioning something please ask and I will answer to the best of my ability. 

Thank you.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Actually, Repashy Calcium Plus DOES have the vitamin A that our frogs require, and it is a usable form of it. It's just that some choose to use a little bit more, especially if vitamin A deficiency symptoms show up, or in heavy breeding season.
Your tongue problem is a new one on me, but I would start with isolating him so you can watch him closer and so he has NO competition whatsoever, for food.


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## qtrhorse89 (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks for the response Pumilo. It's a relief to know he is getting at least some vit. A. I was worried that that was the problem and I had done wrong by him. I'm rather worried about the little guy. I was concerned when I couldn't find any reference to this problem when searching for it. I still have their quarantine set-up from when I got them. I'll get it cleaned up and set up for him. I didn't want to isolate him until a more senior member suggested it. I was not sure if the stress from the move would be worth it. I'll also try the feeding method whereby you drop one fly at a time in front of their face to help them hit their target. Maybe that will help and the problem will resolve itself once he's isolated and "hand fed" so to speak. I've certainly never heard of this particular tongue problem before either. Would you suggest a different food for him? Maybe fruit fly larva or some variety of worm? He seems too small to take super worms but he may be able to take super tiny meal worms although I worry the chitin will cause him problems. There seems to be differing views on the forum concerning that issue. 

On a separate note, would you recommend adding the additional vit A supplement to their feeding regimen if the Calcium + already has it? If I understand correctly over dosing is just as much of a problem as under dosing with this particular vitamin and they get the Calcium + once a day already.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Personally, I feed every other day, dusted with Repashy Calcium plus every feeding. Once a month I dust with Repashy Vitamin A plus INSTEAD OF the normal dusting of Calcium plus. Once a month I dust with Repashy Superpig INSTEAD OF the normal Calcium Plus.


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## qtrhorse89 (Jun 25, 2012)

Well I finally got him quarantined. May I never have to do that again. I don't know who was more traumatized by the experience me or the frogs. For a sick frog he is surprisingly fast and apparently the whole gently herd you into the fruit fly cup trick only works once. They saw that cup go in and dove for cover. So there is good news and bad news. 

The bad news is he is skinnier than I thought he was now that I've got him where I can get a good look at him. I don't think he is beyond saving skinny but he is skinny. 

The good news, I got him in his quarantine container and after about an hour offered him some flies. He struck as soon as they hit the paper towels but his success rate is still lower than I thought it would be. I offered him ten flies. He went after five of them and got four out of the five. So that is an 80% success rate. I put a piece of apple in the container and added five more flies so hopefully those ten will congregate on the apple and he'll come back for more later. He apparently got tired of me staring at him while he ate. He went for the five and then after glaring up at me darted back into his cave. I imagine he's quite peeved at the giant creature right now. I'll try to dig out some fruit fly larvae and dump them on the apple too so he can try those. 

He still seems to be having trouble getting his tongue back into his mouth even when he is successful at catching the fly. After being able to actually watch him up close I believe it may actually be some sort of early form of vit. A deficiency. It's the only thing I can think of for a frog that came in healthy and then suddenly started having trouble with the mechanics of eating. He has always been the shyest of the trio and therefore hides while I feed. This inherently means he eats last. I always checked to make sure he was eating after I fed by standing a good ten feet from the tank and making sure I saw him come out and begin to strike at the flies near the feeding station. This waiting period could take anywhere from five to ten minutes. 

Is it possible that in that time period the flies had mostly cleaned themselves off and he wasn't getting the calcium + supplement even though I was dusting with it?

I'm hoping this is the case if so it should be an easy enough fix especially since he is eating in the quarantine tank and I can ensure he's actually getting the dusted flies. The vit. A supplement comes in tomorrow so I'll dust with that once instead of the calcium + to see if that helps and then start a once a month regimen with the vit. A supplement for all the frogs. 

Does anyone else have any suggestions of things I may be missing? Otherwise I'm just going to offer him smaller meals more often and hope for the best.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

He's a little skinny for a terribilis, but, as you said, he isn't beyond getting better. I've have very good results with the Vit A supplement. I have high hopes that your little one will do very well once he's been on his own a bit, getting first shot at the flies.


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## qtrhorse89 (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks frogface I really hope he pulls through.


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## qtrhorse89 (Jun 25, 2012)

For anyone interested, this frog did come around. He was in quarantine for a month, got some weight back on him, put him back in the enclosure and his weight plummeted again. I decided to just leave him in the enclosure and just dust and feed heavy to avoid competition. After a week of struggling he finally started eating consistently and hitting everything he went for last week and actually has a noticeable stomach bulge these days. He's moving quick towards catching up in the size department with his tank mates. I don't know definitively what was wrong with this frog. It may have been a vitamin issue or some sort of acclimation issue. Whatever it was it looks like it's worked itself out. I'll continue to keep a close eye on him but I think he's good to go now! Thanks for everyone who commented.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Good to hear. Grats on bringing him back around!


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

qtrhorse89 said:


> For anyone interested, this frog did come around. He was in quarantine for a month, got some weight back on him, put him back in the enclosure and his weight plummeted again. I decided to just leave him in the enclosure and just dust and feed heavy to avoid competition. After a week of struggling he finally started eating consistently and hitting everything he went for last week and actually has a noticeable stomach bulge these days. He's moving quick towards catching up in the size department with his tank mates. I don't know definitively what was wrong with this frog. It may have been a vitamin issue or some sort of acclimation issue. Whatever it was it looks like it's worked itself out. I'll continue to keep a close eye on him but I think he's good to go now! Thanks for everyone who commented.


Glad to hear he came back around for you. 
Buddy


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

So glad to hear. I've been following the thread but had nothing to add.


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