# vent keepers - how do these look



## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I've never bred thumbs. First clutch from these guys was laid Friday and they don't seem to be turning white yet, but I don't know how long it should take to find out if they're good or not. I expect them to be bad since it's their first batch and it seems that is usually the case from what I read. To me they look the same as the first night color wise and overall look wise. What do you guys think?

First night










48 hours later


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Do you just have a pair? 7 eggs is pretty big clutch for one female.

The eggs look good. You can let them take care of them or use a turkey baster to suck them up and raise them yourself. If you take them out, they will replace the eggs about every 5 days.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

They look good to me. Congrats! Keep us updated on the progress!


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## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

In my experience 2 to 3 days after being laid I see development.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Checked the eggs after work today. Not looking as good as yesterday.


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

dont loose hope yet, I suspect the 3-4 on the left will come out okay... only from what I can see in the pics and my general vent egg knowledge


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## dipox35 (Jan 6, 2008)

yea my vents just breed 2 months ago and their was only 3 eggs that made it to tads..and they never turned white..they stayed black and just formed out.


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## ccc (Nov 22, 2006)

Hang in there. 3-4 of those might be good as others have mentioned. They will figure it out soon enough and then you will be up to your armpits in froglets. My vents have been my most consistent layers.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Update, colors of the eggs seems about the same as yesterday. There is some shape change in a few of the eggs today though. It's been nearly 10 years since I've had dart eggs so I can't remember if that's normal or not.


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## afterdark (Jan 16, 2007)

I would say you have four developing. The closest three on the left are farthest along, with the far back left one showing a little change as well. 

Good luck with them!


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## bmasar (Dec 13, 2007)

Can't be sure about the back left one yet, but the front left three are definitely good.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

There are also a few that I can't get in the pics. I'm unsure of their status.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 5. Many changes in the eggs today. Definitely one bad egg, but one of the ones I thought would be bad looks better today. Looks like there are a few with some decent development and a few not far behind. I forgot how fun the whole egg process was. It looks like the one in the very back is the most developed, but that may be some dirt in the gel. I can't deep enough into the brom to see what's going on with it. I think there are a few that are out of sight back there.


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## CharleyT (Nov 29, 2008)

Looks pretty awesome Tim! I know you were wondering if the first egg mass would produce any viable tads, and looks like you now have your anwer. 

You also mentioned the male calling, and acting "up" with the other potential female the other day. Did anything come of that?

Also, how are the male and the egglaying female acting now?

Charley


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 6 - eggs removed from the viv. 3 developing well and 3 bad. One looks fertile, but appears to be just starting to develop. Parent's weren't happy to see me in the viv and were sitting litererally 3 inches from my hand watching me remove them. Was pretty cool.










Parent's standing guard


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## CharleyT (Nov 29, 2008)

Very cool Tim! 

Charley


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 7. 3 eggs developing nicely. I think the other female may have laid a clutch the same day as this one that I just found. I can't be sure at this point though, but it looks like 2 bad eggs in the water.










Possible second clutch


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Vent eggs will do perfectly fine submerged in water though it's hard to tell from that shot whether those eggs are good or not.

One bit of advice is to not routinely remove the eggs as it stimulates your vents to just lay more. Some advice from someone who once had almost 100 vent offspring on his hands within a matter of months 

Good luck.

Bill


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks Bill. I'm not even sure if those are eggs or not. I just noticed them when I pulled the other batch of eggs out. I couldn't get my camera to focus any better than that so I'll just wait and see. I have a feeling that it is since I haven't seen much activity in the viv since last weekend when they laid the first batch. And the male was with a female in that brom cup for several hours that evening. I've started hearing the male call a bit over the past few days, but they are all staying pretty reclusive at the moment which is kind of abnormal for this group.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

they could possibly be feeder eggs also frogs are very good a hiding things like eggs and tads. keep an eye out for tads in the broms. i would also allow them to take care of a few to keep production down. that will help increase the amount of good eggs.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I plan on letting them take care of most eggs and tads on their own. I just wanted to get a few out of the viv and get back into the swing of raising them again since it's been nearly 10 years since I last did it. I'll have to take a better look to see if there are any tadpoles in the broms. I don't expect to find any though.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 8. More development in the 3 eggs. Two of the tads have done 180 degree spins. It doesn't look like the tadpole on his side is developing as much as the other two.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Very nice! Good luck.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Was noticing earlier today while watching these guys that they are really starting to move a lot. Everything that I read about these guys says 2 weeks or so for them to emerge....is that about right?


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

around 10-14 days is normal.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 9. The three developing tads are looking good. The largest tad looks about ready to emerge....probably in the next few days. The two outer tads are moving quite a bit, but the middle tad hasn't done much of anything. It does look like the egg area on it is shrinking though. 










Top tad moved in between pics


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 10. Big guys got some big eyes now. Middle tad is finally moving some. All three looking good.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 11.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Are these guys like tinc and auratus tads in that they will straighten out when they are ready to emerge from the egg mass?


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## ccc (Nov 22, 2006)

Yes they do. It should be soon now


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks for the info ccc. I figured so, but wanted to make sure. The top tadpole came out today. The large tadpole is ready to emerge but is taking his time. The middle tadpole stopped developing two days ago and molded over. Looks like I'll get two to come out to the tadpole stage. I've added a bit of water to the egg container to maybe help the big guy emerge since he's had his tail straight for a few days. I'll get some pics up in a bit. Been kinda busy the past few days.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 12. Big tad has straightened out and looks ready to pop. Middle tad has died and is molding over.


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## ccc (Nov 22, 2006)

Both of those look good! I think getting 2 good ones from their first clutch is very good. If yours are like mine, they will lay pretty consistently. 

Keep up the good work.

ccc


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Day 13. Well to my surprise the big tad has been beat out of the egg. The smaller guy up top was swimming when I got home from work. I've added a bit of water to the egg container to possibly stimulate the big guy out of the egg as well.










emerged tadpole










I'm pretty excited to finally have a tadpole. It's been about almost a decade since I last raised dart frogs from eggs. It all has come back pretty quickly, but these are my first thumbnails so I've been a little concerned with what might be different.

For those of you that raise these guys, should I do like I've done in the past with the larger darts and leave the tads be for a few days before moving them to a tadpole container?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

ccc said:


> Both of those look good! I think getting 2 good ones from their first clutch is very good. If yours are like mine, they will lay pretty consistently.
> 
> Keep up the good work.
> 
> ccc


The group laid another batch of eggs the same day as these that went bad. There was another clutch of 7 eggs laid Tuesday and the other female is ready to pop again as well. I'm going to leave these new eggs in the viv. I wish they would lay in the film canisters though.


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## ccc (Nov 22, 2006)

That is up to you. I put mine in glass jars with java moss and a almond leaf as soon as they pop. I have leuc and tinc tads also and they all seem to be pretty much the same until they get out of the water. The difference there is that i start the vents 100% on springs for the first 2-3 weeks.

ccc


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Cool. Thanks for the info. I'll probably wait to do anything until tomorrow. Maybe that will give the other tad time to hatch. Are you raising the vent tads communally? I've heard they are canibalistic...is that possibly why you put java moss for as cover? I guess they might eat the java moss as well.


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## ccc (Nov 22, 2006)

You need to train your vents better. Mine only lay in the film canisters 


I keep them in separate glass jars. The java moss and leaf are there as cover for them to hid in/under and as a food source. Some eat the java moss like crazy others do not touch it.

Chris


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

ccc said:


> You need to train your vents better. Mine only lay in the film canisters


Rub it in

I'll throw some java moss in with them...never tried it before. I used to use cobomba.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Thought I would post a few pics of the two tadpoles that hatched out of this clutch.

Closeup of smaller tad










This is the larger tad, but the camera would only focus on the java moss


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## EricT (Nov 10, 2007)

Excellent thread! Thanks and congratulations! I am going through my first eggs with one of my thumb pairs. and the info and pics you haveprovided has been extremely helpful. Please keep usposted and keep the pics coming. Also how about some shots of the original viv and maybe the parents?!?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Glad you like the thread Eric. I'm going to keep updating it weekly with some pics of the tads and observations. Fortunately these parents have another clutch that should hatch in the next few days that I've left in the viv and they also laid a clutch yesterday. I've got two females in the viv so there may be other clutches I don't know about too.

I'll try and post a shot of the viv.


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

well congrats on your eggs and tadpoles i very much enjoyed reading the thread and i actually have a trio of vents that havnt laid anything yet but im patientally waiting for them to. but i do have a question if you leave eggs and tads in the viv for the parents to care for.. do you need a small pool of water in there over all? in my viv i have plenty of plants and hide places and such but no lil pools of water anyway thats what i was told was best when i first got into the dart frogs. so what does everyone think?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Do you have any broms in the tank? Easy sources of water would be film canisters or shot glasses. These guys are laying like crazy and so far all that I've pulled was the first clutch. I need to take some updated pics of the tadpoles. One of them is huge compared to the other.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Well, I didn't update this at all for the most part. Just been really busy. But, this 1 tad from the first batch of eggs just morphed out yesterday and I snapped a few pics of him. He looks really good which surprised me for the first clutch. He was the only survivor from that clutch as well.


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## Devanny (Jul 11, 2008)

It looks so cute Tim, I have am im tad close to this stage.


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## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

Nice! 
Congrats


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## KMSReptiles (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks was good reading ...I really like journals like this...
Kevin Stoltz


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