# Why so many cultures?



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

I've been thinking on this for a while and figured I'd finally just put it out there. Maybe I'm crazy or lucky or am doing something really different. I keep reading how many cultures people make, and I'm not trying to knock anyone, if what you're doing works, keep doing it.

I just find that it seems like most people are making WAY more cultures than I do. I have 16 tanks, with anywhere from 2-8 thumbs per tank, the average is about 3-4. I have 3 groups of large frogs that can take Hydei, Banded Luecs, Cobalts, and Nilo Truncatus. I have 15-20 190oz grow outs with froglets at any given time. I feed every other day. When I feed, I sheepishly admit, I probably overfeed by number of flies. If I notice there there are still flies roaming in vivs, I'll skip another feeding day.

But....

I only make 3 cultures of flies a week. 1 Hydei, 1 Melo, and 1 Wingless Melo. I'm seldom short for flies. I do keep around an odd old culture or two in the other room to get stunted flies for smaller frogs and froglets.

So whats the deal? Thoughts and discussion please.


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## that Frog Guy (May 13, 2012)

How many cultures do people make?

I used to buy 1 a Month.

Now I am going to make 1 a Week.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I've been watching the 'How many cultures' boards for a while (even before I finally joined). It has me extremely worried that I'm going to go overboard with cultures, or that I will end up without enough.

I initially thought that I could make 1 new culture weekly and be fine with 5 leucomelas, but lately I've been wondering if I should make 2-3 per week because of different responses I've been reading.

It will be interesting and informing to see this topic take off.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I am with doug on this one. I make 1 culture every 2 weeks for my black jeans and it seems like I overfeed most of the time since both my males look like fat females >.> Been working on lowering their food to every other day and skipping weekends, but I ALWAYS have more food then I need and end up culling out flies.

Even when I had (2 pairs) Azureus, (3)Borja Ridge Vents, (1)INIBICO Variabilis, and (3)Chazuta I was only making 3 biweekly, and only reason for that was the azureus ate so much and I was still culling then also.


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

Depending on how many frogs you keep and the types you keep will determine how many you need to make every week. For a pair of thumbnails or pumilio, 1 per week seems good. This is one reason why so many people like thumbs. They don't need anywhere near as much food as Tincs, Leucs, or Phyllobates. But if that one culture crashes you could be in trouble. I believe it is a good idea to have at least 2 booming cultures on hand at any given time. For Tincs, Auratus, Leucs, or Terribilis you will need to make more cultures. It also depends on if you are feeding Hydei or Melanogaster. Tincs need a lot of food to keep up to breeding size. A good rule of thumb I think people should follow is 2 cultures for every pair of frogs you keep. I hope this helps.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

I make 8 a week, 4 hydei, 4 melo. I am feeding about 40 frogs (split pretty evenly between thumbs and bigger sp.), my pair of pygmy chams and a few dozen fish. I always have more than I need, but I figure that's better than not enough, and I can always spare a couple to those in need.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I feel like I am making way more then necessary, but I seem to use them. Or I think I am using them and some end up dieing off and I don't realize it. I am making 27 hydei and 27 melano a week right now, plus 18 bean beetle cultures.

I have 50 tanks including my frogs in growout, some thumbs, some bigger frogs. I also have anywhere from 50 t0 100 froglets at any time or so and for the groups I am raising they are usually about 6 of everything.

I have 5 shelves of flies, one shelf per week. Then they are tossed. I feed usually about 3 times a week....and I do feed heavy.

Thoughts?


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## IEatBugs (May 15, 2012)

It is always a good idea to make and have extra on hand. You do not want to have a culture or two crash on you and then run out. Also as Jason mentioned, if there is someone in need local you are able to help out.


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## kev_n_gina (Jan 21, 2013)

I am new BUT I am going to put my .02 in any way.

So mathmatically speaking. if you have a culture of flies that produces on average 100 flies a day for 2-3 weeks and 2 frogs that eat 10-20 flies each every day it is easy to say you only need to make 1 culture every other week or so on a scheduale making sure you have a fresh one starting as the old one dies off. 

however

there are scenerios which play out that easliy increase this qty

Culture issues the unforseen mite epidemic and any number of other issues that casues a culture to stop producing or never start to begin with.

Differant species of flies- I come from a reptile side and if I had the option of foods on a lizard I always swtiched it up, variety is the spice of life, SO why not culture Hydei and Mal-a-whatevers

NEWBIES- ME- I need all the practice screwing up cultures I can get- for instance do not press the side of the culter to see if the food is damp enough - I now have one culture with a split side and another with flies enbedded into the food.. out of my first 4 cultures I have maggots in 1

Experiance making cultures and local availability of cultures. If you live in the sticks and have terrible luck you better stick with one a day. IF you live next store to flies-R-us and have never had a culture spoile or fail- go with the one everother week.

I guess what I am saying is "the play it safe people" are going to over produce with 1 culture a week per frog the "waste not want not"-" I am on a budget" people are going to say one culture a week to feed a few frogs. 

But as a rookie I am going to keep making 1 of each species for my 2 frogs tillI figure it out...then IDK


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

As stated in a previous thread, I make 1 culture for every tank +2 every week. 
So I'm up to 8 cultures per week. 

Could I cut back, absolutely bc I do not use up my cultures by the time I toss them (between 3 & 4 weeks).

I just choose to not cut back bc things happen & I'd rather have way too many than not enough. This also enables to help a friend out every once in awhile too.

Something else not taken into consideration is tank size. I have a 125g tank that I tend to overfeed just bc of the size of the enclosure. If those frogs were in say a 30g, I wouldn't feed it nearly as much.

Like someone already stated, if you only make just enough to fit the need, when something does happen, you're going to be in trouble.

All of the "Emergency, I need cultures" posts I've seen over the past couple months is a prime example.


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Redhead87xc said:


> ...A good rule of thumb I think people should follow is 2 cultures for every pair of frogs you keep. I hope this helps.


That seems excessive. I believe 2 cultures per week is the minimum necessary (being safe in case of a crash), but people with 50 tanks like mydumname would have to make 100+ cultures per week when following that rule of thumb.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

Thank goodness I'm not making that many haha


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

I think if you are looking at pairs of thumbs you can figure that 1 culture will do 2 pairs of thumbs with excess flies. 1 culture per larger frogs.

I also feel that a lot of hobbiest over feed frogs because they are scared that the frogs never eat enough. I watch my black jeans eat 15 flys then start attacking nematodes off the glass. He is overweight. I have been dropping his fly intake because I know he is eating the other forms of insects in the viv.

I think most frogs need the vitamins and calcium from the ffs more then they actually need the ffs. A well seeded tank goes a lot further then enough well started cultures in my opinion, doesn't hurt to have both though =P


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

I make 3 cultures a week.... All Melanos...

I keep 14 thumbnails, 6 Epis and 2 Dwarf Tincs and have tons of extras.

I make new cultures every week, and rotate them on a 4 week cycle. After the 4 week cycle I remove them from my room and keep them in a spare room as backups or to feed out stunted flies to small froglets.

I honestly was a little blown away by the 1 culture per tank +2 extra comment... that would be incredibly excessive for me. I'm running 7 tanks and I have a pretty good surplus as it is. 6 extra cultures would just seem incredibly wasteful to me. 

Now, I understand that I am keeping a lot of smaller species and I do believe that plays a huge factor in things... which is why I dont think that you could ever "standardize" how many cultures to make and give a blanket recommendation with it.

If anything, I do think that no matter what you should probably be making at least 2 a week just as a fail-safe.

ETA: I wondered away mid typing and by the time I came back JP had already made the above recommendation... haha so needless to say, I agree with what JP said


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm with the Doug on this, I have a decent sized (to me  ) collection and I make 3 cultures a week. I feel I usually have a steady flow of flies, plus excess at times, and it works for me. I think the main things is do what fits your needs...or basically to the point that you aren't always thinking to yourself "oh crap, do I have enough?" 

I'd rather have too many, than not enough!


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Gamble said:


> All of the "Emergency, I need cultures" posts I've seen over the past couple months is a prime example.


I just want to add my 2 cents on this one too...

Most of the "emergency, I need cultures" threads are as a result of someone being human (I'm not blaming anyone) and slacking off on their culture making or having a big mite/mold/humidity issue.

I don't think someone making 7 instead of 5 would help in these situations, as there is a bigger problem at the root of the issue. 

If you are taking all the necessary steps to prevent mites and mold, you should be able to come down to a reasonable number of cultures. Also, you will notice there are usually a big spike in those types of threads as the seasons start changing. That is typically because the humidity is changing in peoples homes and they are not adjusting accordingly.

For people in my region, simple steps like adding a little more water during the cold months can prevent a lot of those problems... but a lot of times those types of strategies come with experience and it is tough to just start doing them without really understanding your culturing needs.


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## briley5 (Sep 27, 2012)

I also will jump in with my 2 cents lol. I have 8 thumbs and 9 tincs so I go threw a ton of ff (at least in my opinion). And as I'm also a newbie I was always in that "oh crud do I have enough" stage. So I picked a day and always "try" to make them on that day. I started out with 1 a week cause all my new frogs were 2-3 months ootw. As they grew so did their need for more ff so I'm now up to 3 a week and will be going to 4 starting Mon. But I also think the others are right in saying it depends on what you keep, where you live and how well you are at making them. I live in NY and with the pellet stove running all the time its kinda dry in here so my cultures are only lasting three weeks before there all dried out. And I'm still playing with my mix. I have gotten cultures from Greg that had more fly's in it than I had ever seen, mine don't ever produce like that so that is also a factor. I know as a new person coming in to the hobby its hard to hear " you'll get the hang of it" because you don't want to do anything wrong and harm your new lil jewels. But it is so very true. The only way to get a system that works for you is by doing it and learning as you go. But is is nice to have a rule of thumb to go buy.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

Would it be easier for those with a lot of frogs to make super cultures I've considered making cultures in 2 liter soda bottles or maybe even gallon milk jugs that should reduce the amount of cultures you need


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm with Doug on this one.

I have 13 tanks, and couple of growout tanks. Probably somewhere around 40 or so frogs (roughly).

I make 1 Hydeii, 1 Wingless, 2 Melongasters - and I only make the extra Melano because people hit me up fairly often for a fruit fly culture and I don't want to leave myself short.

s


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## kev_n_gina (Jan 21, 2013)

vivbulider said:


> Would it be easier for those with a lot of frogs to make super cultures I've considered making cultures in 2 liter soda bottles or maybe even gallon milk jugs that should reduce the amount of cultures you need


I think the problem is not so much the QTY of frogs needed as the Culture crashes and such...

Bigger cultures will make bigger crashers thereby BIGGER PROBLEMS!


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Ah, but the protection here is to have a local users group that protects you, insures you if you will - from crashes.

This is why I pretty much make one extra a week.

s


kev_n_gina said:


> I think the problem is not so much the QTY of frogs needed as the Culture crashes and such...
> 
> Bigger cultures will make bigger crashers thereby BIGGER PROBLEMS!


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## Kalakole (Jun 30, 2011)

I have one breeding pair of auratus and froglets.. I make 2 cultures every other week on top of having plenty of giant oranges, dwarf whites, and isos.. I have a lot of bugs. The cost of me making that extra culture is like $.40.. think I can spare it just in case lol.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

I make 3 per week to feed 8 thumbs and 5 mantellas. Usually I have far more than I need...but if a long business trip comes up, I get busy and forget to make cultures that week, one gets mites, etc - I still always have plenty left. Before when I made 1-2 a week there were times I ran low and making 1-2 extra cultures per week sure beats the cost of 2-4 new cultures sent via priority mail when you get in a bind. Plus the extra puts you in good stead if you end up acquiring some new frogs you weren't otherwise expecting to get. FF cultures are cheap; would rather have too much than not enough. 

In the summer I take the excess and feed them to the lizards that hang out on a wall in my back yard.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Well,I think this thread has ran its course but I'll add my bit. First, here's what I,m keeping currently;

2.3 UE green Sirensis group.
1.3 Leucomelas
3.3 Vanzolinii
0.2 Orange Sirensis
0.0.4 Chazuta imitators (sub-adults)
0.0.5 Benedicta (Froglets)
0.0.4 Terreblis (just morphing out)
+ 6-8 other various Froglets mostly green sirensis and Vanzos

I only culture flightless melanos. I have not been able to find hydei locally. I make about 12 cultures every 10-14 days. I Can't justify, nor afford to buy a good commercial ff media, so I make my own. I know I don't get good production......but I also only spend about 3-4 dollars a month MAX, on all those cultures. I'd much rather save the cash and be able to add new frogs every few month. But lately it seems like I've been buying frogs like they're going out of style.


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## FrogBoyMike (Aug 25, 2012)

I like the every 10 days rule personally because based off production and how long the cultures last one a week feels a bit overkill. However I had a slacking off/ to busy time when i was getting every 14-16 days and then mites hit. As if that was not bad enough I had 2 diff D. mel species at the time and they managed to cross breed and start flying.Thankfully a show was 2 weeks later and i was able to pick up fresh cultures and renovate everything.

So needless to say I been sticking with the once a week rule now and things are much smoother

Also I didn't notice if anyone brought it up but as a general rule now I try to keep my fresh cultures and established cultures on 2 different shelves for just in case there is a mold or mite epidemic then you have insurance(better safe then sorry)

Also I'd like to give some advice to newbes that may seam obvious...... when keeping more then one species of fly be very careful not to let even a single fly cross cultures..... I don't know how it happened with mine but trust me you do not want to deal with that flying mess!! LOL

-Mike


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

FrogBoyMike said:


> one a week feels a bit overkill.


I disagree....I make my cultures on 3 separate days a week. When I did it all at once, the beginning of a week when they would first boom was great but towards the end of the week I felt like I was short. Making the same total quantity of cultures on those 3 separate days each weel has pretty much allowed me to have producing cultures at any given time.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

FrogBoyMike said:


> I like the every 10 days rule personally because based off production and how long the cultures last one a week feels a bit overkill.





FrogBoyMike said:


> So needless to say I been sticking with the once a week rule now and things are much smoother


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Im right at 8 cultures a week plus Isos. I make 3 Melano, 3 Turkish Glidets and 2 Hydei. . I never run out, I do make my own media as well.. I use mason jars for my private cultures and home made 32oz style cups for the stores I supply..


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

TheCoop said:


> Im right at 8 cultures a week plus Isos. I make 3 Melano, 3 Turkish Glidets and 2 Hydei. . I never run out, I do make my own media as well.. I use mason jars for my private cultures and home made 32oz style cups for the stores I supply..


How many mouths are you feeding? And how many of the 8 cultures per week are supplied to the stores?


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

JPccusa said:


> How many mouths are you feeding? And how many of the 8 cultures per week are supplied to the stores?


Yeah it really doesn't put a perspective on anything without knowing those details too, ha.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

with about 80 small mouths to feed and 16 big mouths to feed im doing 3 cultures a week, but feed out isos and springs every other day (about 50 gallons of iso and spring cultures goinng at any given time) oh and bean beetles about 4 cultures at any time.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Im feeding 4 pairs of Tincs, 2 pairs of leucs, 3 pairs of Imis, 7 pairs of Pumilio as well as my Veileds and Beardeds as they hatch.. I make 8 for myself and aprox 20 extra per week or as needed.. As well as enough to give away to friends..


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## FrogBoyMike (Aug 25, 2012)

carola1155 said:


>


lol sorry what i ment was I do every 7 days now just cause its convenient to do on my day off


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