# gorgeous vivariums without the heat?



## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

How do people create those really lush looking tanks with lots of CF or metal halides-- without cooking the frogs?

Misting and ventilation? The only way I know how to air condition a tank is to use a sump because evaporative cooling keeps the substrate (and the vivarium air) cool.

I just use pothos and philodendron now, maybe a marantha or creeping fig on occasion.


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

I actually just use T5's.... heat buildup isn't too bad, but when it does get warm I have a fan set up with a temp. sensor that automatically turns on when the ambient temperature gets to a certain point. Then the fan turns on and moves the hot air away from the lights... and as far as the misting goes, it really depends on the plants and the frogs. There are quite a few plants that will just go wild with high humidity. Others need it a little bit wetter. Most of your tanks that have the lush moss, get misted quite a bit.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i use T5s as well, they put out a much higher lumen then PCs and are cololer too.


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## boyaminalnurse (May 7, 2008)

how much are t5 go and where can I buy them? Energy efficiant? How many per tank? Light housing for them? Life expectancy


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

well it all depends on what you go with a fixture DIY kit and how long of a fixture all that, check out Aquarium Lights Hellolights.com and you can get a good idea on prices, there are not too many people that use halides on their tanks since is too much heat and those that do have a pretty good ventilation system or have the light pendant haning too far off the tank that it lights up a whole room.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Rain_Frog said:


> How do people create those really lush looking tanks with lots of CF or metal halides-- without cooking the frogs?


For the same reason the earth doesn't get cooked by the sun... the distance between the source and the target. Just don't put a metal halide on a small tank, give it enough space from the top of the tank, and you'll be fine. Also it is worth mentioning that T5's get hotter than metal halides, it's just that in a metal halide all the heat is coming from the same area/source.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Corpus Callosum said:


> Also it is worth mentioning that T5's get hotter than metal halides, it's just that in a metal halide all the heat is coming from the same area/source.


I don't know actual temperatures, but I disagree with that. I've worked on aquariums professionally for the past 20 years and have never been burned by anything like I have a metal halide or HQI. Pc's run a close second in heat to touch, but I handle t5's every single day without gloves while lit and have never been burned. They do get warm enough to be quite uncomfortable to handle for a long period though. I've seen people I work with burned to the skull just from bumping their head for a split second into a halide bulb.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

I was mainly talking about total heat per watt comparisons between the two, rather than actual heat of the bulb or how hot it is to the touch. I think there was someone who ran a few tests to get numbers for comparison, I will try to find the reference for us. I had a burn mark on my arm for a while from touching a low wattage (175w) metal halide, so you are definitely right in that the bulbs get way hotter.


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## Pitcom (Sep 5, 2008)

Corpus Callosum said:


> I was mainly talking about total heat per watt comparisons between the two, rather than actual heat of the bulb or how hot it is to the touch. I think there was someone who ran a few tests to get numbers for comparison, I will try to find the reference for us. I had a burn mark on my arm for a while from touching a low wattage (175w) metal halide, so you are definitely right in that the bulbs get way hotter.


My main hobby is reef tanks. T5's don't heat the water like a metal halide does.

To answer the main question. If you are looking for a cheap t5 fixture that will work well for the plants in your tank, you could try looking at the cheaper current t5 fixtures. They aren't the best for coral due to the single reflector, but they work great for vivariums. I have a an 18" 2 bulb fixture with 2 18w 10k bulbs. The plants are growing extremely well and while the lights are on it keeps my tank at a steady 76 degrees (my ambient is always 72 or below).


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Your right about the heat per watt probably. The t5's are a fraction of the wattage but can still get pretty toasty.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

are you people using misting systems and sumps/ bulkheads?


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I've got a misting system installed and a bulkhead for a fogger that I rarely turn on and a bulkhead for a drain that is under the false bottom.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Hey Doug,

This is an interesting topic. I think lighting has something to do with making a viv look good, but bulkheads, etc probably don't factor in as much; they make servicing tanks easier though, especially those with large water features, which can add to the aesthetics. 

Honestly, more than lighting, I think the plant selection and careful planning of the hardscape are most important aspects for making a pretty tank. There are a number of nice looking plants that do well in lower lighting, like Macodes petola for example. If you're using pothos, creeping fig, and a couple other easily found plants exclusively, I can see where that would make a less than spectacular viv. Kind of like a home with little artwork on the walls. I suggest researching lower light plants, if stronger lighting is too warm; leaving you with fewer plant options. I think the bottom line is that nicer looking vivs are much more expensive (from the cost of plants/decor for starters) than a standard breeder set up and take a little longer to make, as well.

Best,
Mike


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Mike, if you check back on some earlier posts, the bulkhead / sump makes a huge difference because water that circulates outside the tank will utilize evaporative cooling.

It's a very effective technique to keep temps down-- I did it once and had strong lighting. 

But that's the only method I know.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

I see what you mean and understand the concept of a sump, but what I was getting at is that I don't think any serious gadgetry is needed for a good looking set up (though I do feel that a small fan for internal air movement is worthwhile, cheap, and easy). There is dual pc lighting on one of my tanks, only 12" at ~34w mind you, but it gets the job done and doesn't raise the temp too much. In addition, there is a regular T5 to cover the rest of the tank - and no special cooling system. And I have a similar set up on another tank, with spiral compacts, and the temp rises about 6F daily on that one too. It helps that the mean temp in the room is ~72-75F, so the increase of ~6F in the tanks daily is no issue - in a warmer room, this would be a problem. All the bulbs are 6,500K or more. If it were too hot for me to use the pc, I would just use T5-8s only. Many nice looking plants can be grown under less light, the issue is which ones and where to plant/mount them in the viv (and how much you want to spend). 

One way to approach this would be to find out what the footcandle ranges are in your tank, so you know where to place more sensitive plants. Light meters are pretty cheap.

Otherwise, as I said, I think the only other major factor for a nicer viv, after nicer plants, is a well planned/executed hardscape.

Mike


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Doug, some of my tanks are on a misting system, some are not....

This one is not and the light source is 4 HOT5's, two 3000k two 6400k:








This one is and light source is two HOT5's both 6400k(or 6700 I can never remember):









They all have fairly full, lush growth. A lot just depends on the plants and whether they like a lot of water or not. All the "bright" lights really are good for are making sure bromes like the ones in the first tank stay colored up. That is an old picture, but those bromes still look that way. Oh yeah, the light for that tank too is about a foot away from the tank due to intensity and heat. I had it closer at one point but the upper bromes were starting to bleach out and the tank would get too hot even with a water feature.


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## Mac (Aug 14, 2007)

Sarah- how many gallons is that big tank you have, and what do you have in it?


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

I assume you mean the top one, the top one is a 55 that has a group of 6 imitator in it. The bottom one is a custom 45 that has my yellow terrib juvies in it until they outgrow it. Funny thing is that as froglets/juvies they climb and use all of the space.... too bad it changes once they become adults.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

sarah, how warm does the temp get?


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Well, the probe is about 2 inches from the top... saying that, the temp at the top of the tank rarely gets above 80, if it does I have the fan turn on to lower the temp... I have seen it as high as 83 at the top, but that has been a rarety. And it must be cooler on the bottom because they are still out and about.

The terrib tank I never let get above 79 at the top.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Hey Sarah, can we get some more detailes on taht terribilis tank?? and some close up pics?


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Julio, I can pm you if you want, I would rather not hijack.


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