# Lamisil soak procedure?



## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Am getting desperate to save my sick Pacifics. Three started showing lack of righting reflex, not eating, darkening in color with light spots yesterday. Have tested frogs in the tank for chytrid which was negative. Howver, the deceased frogs from that tank have at times become furry looking after death so in desperation I soaked the three sick ones in 1 ml 1 % lamisil in 200 ml of water for five minutes. Have read i should do this for 10'days. My question is, do you then let them soak in spring water afterwards or just sit and dry? Did not want to overdose them with lamisil. I sprayed their heads with lamisil before soaking them. Afterwards, I let them sit in spring water, hope this is ok. They seemed to like the lamisil,soaks, which seemed weird. They seem antsy and agitated and get tangled in paper towels and flip,over at other times.


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## Eloquentidiot (Feb 28, 2013)

In the study abstracts I have read they do not mention anything about post-soak care. While I would expect the absorption of the lamisil to be pretty rapid as their skin is basically an active mucous membrane I would not want to decrease the dosage by 'rinsing' them afterwards. I think it would, however, be OK to let them sit in spring, distilled, or RO water afterwards.

Good luck and let us know how things work out!

- Paul




Terbinafine Hydrochloride in Ethanol Effectively Clears Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis in Amphibians

J Herpetol Med Surg. 2010;20(1):24-28. 37 Refs
Jay Bowerman1; Chris Rombough; Sarah R Weinstock; Gretchen E Padgett-Flohr

Article Abstract

Amphibian chytridiomycosis, caused by the fungus Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis (Bd), has been implicated in the decline and extinction of amphibian species worldwide, in addition to catastrophic losses of animals in captivity. Conservation of threatened amphibians, including captive breeding and maintenance of animals in zoos, research facilities, and private collections, requires effective control of pathogens. Several chemical compounds, including Formalite III®, itraconazole, and chloramphenicol, have been used to treat amphibians infected with Bd, with varying levels of success. Here, we report successful clearance of Bd in five species of post-metamorphic anurans and one caudate species using terbinafine hydrochloride (MCI) in alcohol, which is available over the counter as Lamisil AT™ (Novartis Pharmaceuticals Inc., New York, NY). Treatments consisting of 5 min soak in fresh 0.01% or 0.005% terbinafine HC1 in alcohol for either five consecutive days or for six treatments spread across 10 days successfully cleared Bd from 100% of 81 test subjects in eight trials. Our results indicate that terbinafine HCl in alcohol has a high therapeutic index as a treatment for Bd infection in living post-metamorphic amphibians.


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## cmk (Aug 29, 2014)

I thought you were supposed to put them in their own temp tank (critter keeper or such) with a moist paper towel and put them in that after every treatment for 10 days? Replacing the paper towels after evey fecal deposit and after every treatment.


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## Eloquentidiot (Feb 28, 2013)

That would probably be helpful to minimize zoospore numbers if it is indeed Chytrid which it sounds like it could be. In my experience most fungal tests are not 100% sensitive meaning false negatives can be an issue; though I am not experienced with the test for Chytrid specifically.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Will let them soak on paper towels in their own temporary critter keepers afterwards...they are already isolated in those of course. May ask the vet to do another pcr retest for chytrid or try to culture another fungus. I think the vet has given up helping though. It is hard to keep trying after so many losses and nothing working. Thank you for your quick responses.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Lost one of the three frogs I have soaked twice now with lamisil. Am hoping to make contact with the vet.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Just soaked the two sick frogs in lamisil. One isn't using his back legs but grabs crickets. Other seems calmer and gets around a lot. They are no longer as dark colored and are not going upside down as much or curving to one side.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Soaked the two sick 2 yr old frogs in lamisil again today, sixth day. One seems all better, no more skin discoloration or agitation or curving. The other seems better but is still not using his back legs but is eating from my fingers. Another 18 yr old frog in another tank is acting weird however. He has had a strange orangish yellow patch on one leg and today he was upside down stretched across a plant. He is a little dark colored. Now he isn't using his back legs. Am hoping whatever is wrong hasnt jumped tanks due to some carelessness on my part. Will watch him for now. A few years ago, I had a frog named Jill who was over 16 years old who couldn't use her back legs due to a stroke. I just hand fed her and put her in and out of a shallow dish. She climbed up,the glass regularly and it killed me when she died, probably natural causes. I know the 18 plus year olds are like 90 year old humans, very fragile. One, Gimpy, is still going strong after a stroke or something a few years ago and a foot injury that needed stitches about six months ago, and she seems fine, and Bug Eyes who had mouth hamartomas removed a few months ago but eats enthusiastically and joyfully.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

The 18 yr old frog just grabbed seven 2 wk old crickets from my fingers! He eventually spit one out. So maybe he is going to be ok. He still can't move his back legs though. Injury? Am torn on whether to put him in a critter keeper and treat him with lamisil. Once he's been isolated I can't pit him back. I gave one female, 18 yrs old, who has been in a critter keeper three months... little Orphan Annie. She seems ok but am so afraid of passing diseases to,the ancient frogs.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Just got up, two hours after checking the sick frogs being treated with lamisil. The larger frog was on top of the smaller one who was upside down with both front feet in his mouth. I separated them and gently pulled the ones feet out of his mouth and righted him. This is so agonizing. Both seemed better yesterday.


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## cmk (Aug 29, 2014)

Man, thats tough. Hope you find the solution soon.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Just lost the 18 yr old, Patches, who ate seven crickets and seemed better. He pooped then just died. I know he was really old but every loss hurts right now. Gimpy looks sad but Bug Eyes seems fine despite the loss of Patches. The 2 yr old sick frog in the hospital tank who,was upside down two nights ago just ate two crickets but doesn't look great. No new sick frogs. When will this end?


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

The two frogs being treated with lamisil are not stable again. One frog was under the paper towel with both feet in his mouth and upside down. The other frog was upside down and acting agitated.Just soaked them again in lamisil. Wonder if I need to change to,a different anti fungal. They are shedding their skin a lot too. May ask to retest for chytrid.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Was proper vitamin supplimentation ever discussed on these animals. Could it be the fungal infections are secondary to a lack of immune response, caused by poor nutrition. Are crickets the only food item you use? What do you dust them with?


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Lost the frog who was acting so crazy last night, going upside down repeatedly. Crickets are the only feeder I've been using. Are gut loaded with Repashy and total cricket bites. I don't dust them because the crickets die faster than the frogs can eat them. Do you think more vitamin supplements are needed? What other feeders? Thanks.


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## frogboy99 (Feb 1, 2016)

thats tough man, i feel for you, i know how it is to lose good froggie warriors, but dispite the turnout just know you did the best you could. i mean eighteen years is a bloody long time for a captive frog you are an amazing keeper by the sounds off it. keep up the commitmen and determination.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Still have ten 18 yr olds, four eight year olds, and probably 20 to 30 2 yr old Pacifics. No new sick or dead frogs today, a good day. Am still cleaning the cage twice per day. Thank you for the encouragement. We also have four 18 yr old whites and two pacmans who are a few months old. Am very sad to have lost so many frogs after losing not a single 2 yr old pacific frog for over 2 years. A local student is selling his entire dart frog set up and I thought about then thought, just shoot me! Am not up to more frog care while my poor babies are sick.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Just found a newly dead large 2 yr old female in the large 2 yr old tank. No signs of illness or distress. Was hoping the disaster had ended, after a few good days. All ten 18 yr olds are doing well and the two sick frogs are fine, just not using their back legs...seem alert and grabbed crickets from me. When will this nightmare stop for the poor froggies.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Also found a dead 2 yr old male upside down in the water dish yesterday afternoon. Cannot understand why it is the 2 yr old frogs who are affected. The food, water, temperature, furnishings are all the same, except for the exposure to the plastic plant that had the paint come off. But no one knows anywhere how to test it or the frogs for a toxin, because it is probably a small exposure test wise, although one test showed lead 7 ppm. The frog I soaked in lamisil has a great appetite now, his skin looks great, he just doesn't use his back legs. He is in a hospital tank of course.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Thought things were getting better because no new sick or dead frogs for a few days, but tonight found one dying female 2 yr old...dragging her back legs and then just died. Found another male looking kind of squirly with his head down and back toes twitching. Treated them with lamisil,but the female just didn't come back. Put the male in a hospital,tank. What causes back toe twitching???


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Male has been soaked twice in lamisil, his appetite has increased and he is getting around better. Haven't seen any more toe twitching.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Just got home from a few hours of doing errands and found a dead plump 2 yr old female in a water dish. She was fine earlier.


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

I read your previous thread on this, but I've forgotten some of the details, so please forgive me if I'm suggesting something you have already tried or investigated. Have you considered a possible bacterial infection? 

It sounds like despite your treatments so far, none of them have recovered once they've shown symptoms of illness that I can recall, even with your isolation and treatment routine. That must be enormously frustrating. I hope things turn around for you and your frogs.


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Yes, despite all treatments so far, none has totally recovered. One eighteen year old, Annie, had reddish drops from her feet and has been in isolation for three months. She seems fine but am afraid to put get back with her friends. Three 2 yr olds have nonworking back legs and are in isolation. One 2 yr ok'd male acting strangely seems ok now but still looks off and is in isolation. The other sick ones have died despite rx for bacterial, fungal, and parasitic infections, multiple tests for diseases, including viruses and funguses, and necropsies. It is heartbreaking. It is slowing down because there are fewer frogs now. I think the vet has given up.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm so sorry you're still losing frogs. Every time I read your posts I hope it's gotten better. I feel terrible for you. I just keep hoping it'll get better for you. 

Mike


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## cwebster (Mar 5, 2016)

Mike, thank you. Whatever us going on seems to be slowing down. But I only have a few dozen frogs left. Still think it is due to lead toxicity and maybe fungal overlay in the frogs with compromised immune systems?


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