# Studying multi species vivs



## darterfrog4774 (Apr 24, 2014)

I know people are probably going to start yelling at me, but just hear me out. This is more directed toward university study. Has anyone really studied how different frogs compete for different breeding sites in the wild? For example, how to tincs and leucs in British Guyana cohabitate? Do they use the same breeding areas? 
So I was thinking that a institution should build a conservatory that houses frogs that are found in the same locale, not just darts, but tree frogs and other various frogs, and see how they interact for breeding space, so we know how they breed and what to look for in the wild when searching for eggs.

Thoughts?

I think I summarized a good grant proposal...


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

I think most universities would have a hard time funding or having the space to build a conservatory for the sole purpose of learning about multi species frog interactions. I guess, in theory, studies could take place at ABG since they already have at least one large room with multiple amphibian species being housed "free-range". 

I think what you'd find when mixing species from the exact same locale in a sufficiently large enclosure (something like this hypothetical conservatory) is niche partitioning, so each species is able to share the available resources in a way that minimizes competition. 

And for reference, I do know of at least one study (that is not yet published as far as I know) looking at the behavior of multi species interactions/competition for resources.


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## darterfrog4774 (Apr 24, 2014)

I was thinking about how big territories for some species of frogs would be, so we would know how much land would support a colony, at minimum. 
I know about the niches and things, I was more thinking about the parts of the tree in which they lay, and how species that lay similarly would go about breeding, and how the froglets would interact. I'm guessing for darts, the froglets hide in piles of debris, but what about other species? I'm sure the ground dwelling species hide in debris, so how to they compete for space? etc, etc.


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

darterfrog4774 said:


> I was thinking about how big territories for some species of frogs would be, so we would know how much land would support a colony, at minimum.
> I know about the niches and things, I was more thinking about the parts of the tree in which they lay, and how species that lay similarly would go about breeding, and how the froglets would interact. I'm guessing for darts, the froglets hide in piles of debris, but what about other species? I'm sure the ground dwelling species hide in debris, so how to they compete for space? etc, etc.


This has everything to do with niche partitioning...In a functioning ecosystem, each species occupies its own niche to minimize competition from other, similar species. If two species occupied the exact same niche in the exact same locality, the species with greater competitive ability would drive the other one out in time or would at least reduce it's range. This is why you won't find leucs and tincs (to go back to your example) in the exact same place in nature. 

Take islands in the Bocas del Toro region for example...On most islands, you have a pumilio locale, Phyllobates lugubris, Andinobates claudiae, along with other leaf litter dwelling Dendrobatids, Eleutherodactylids, etc. The reason all of these can survive in the exact same site it because each occupies its own niche within the leaf litter or understory of a forest. There may be some competition for resources (food), but most call or deposit larvae, etc. at different types of sites.


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## FishnFrogs (Jul 8, 2014)

Why not apply for a grant and go study them in the wild? You'd probally have a more realistic chance of getting funding for that


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

i rember reading about some pumilio going for the smallest body of water they could find for deposit sites so auratus would not be able to use the same site. i forget where i read this but it seemes theres been some research along these lines.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

scoy said:


> i rember reading about some pumilio going for the smallest body of water they could find for deposit sites so auratus would not be able to use the same site. i forget where i read this but it seemes theres been some research along these lines.


I recall reading the same thing and I can't remember where, either. Maybe it was in a post by Ed or possibly in a Leaf Litter article. I'll do a little searching...

John


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

FroggyKnight said:


> I recall reading the same thing and I can't remember where, either. Maybe it was in a post by Ed or possibly in a Leaf Litter article. I'll do a little searching...
> 
> John


I think I mentioned it on here before... its between granulifera and auratus. The granulifera would use the larger deposition sites but predation by the auratus tadpoles would force them to use the smaller sites. If the auratus were removed the granulifera would use the larger sites. See An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie 
Ryan, Mason J., and Deborah S. Barry. "Competitive interactions in phytotelmata-breeding pools of two poison-dart frogs (Anura: Dendrobatidae) in Costa Rica." Journal of Herpetology 45.4 (2011): 438-443.

Some comments 

Ed


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Spaff said:


> I think most universities would have a hard time funding or having the space to build a conservatory for the sole purpose of learning about multi species frog interactions.


Or want to commit those resources for a program that is unlikely to be used for a very long period of time... 

Some comments 

Ed


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## moose12 (Nov 16, 2009)

Quite a few zoos and aquariums already have this type of set up....Perhaps it be could a study in cooperation with one of them...


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