# 46 gal bowfront viv construction journal "lots of pics"



## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

Ive been browsing various dartfrog forums and this one seems the most active :]

Hey guys I'm Adam and this is my 46g bowfront construction journal.
I got it yesterday and was so eager to get started this is 1 days worth of work so far!


















































































I'm waiting on my "Dendro Bedding" and "Terra-Lite" from Black Jungle to continue on...
I just got a bunch of plants from Lowes and looking around local stores for some broms.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

good start, any idea on what is going in yet?


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

im getting some leucs from a local breeder


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Cool! I think this is going to look even better once it's done. 

Is that a lemon button fern? Now comes the fun of silicone & coco fiber!


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

stevenhman said:


> Is that a lemon button fern?


Yep :] got it from black jungle. im ordering some broms right now 

This is my first viv too im very stoked to get it finished!


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## tommy2 (Feb 13, 2007)

Looking good so far......!


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

so i just got some "tropical soil brick" from the Petsmart across the street and this is a mess! i tried to get the silicone in every crack on the foam and patted the soil on it. it doesn't seem to be sticking... after I'm finished what is the easiest way to clean up the soil that didn't stick instead of lifting up the viv and letting it fall to the bottom?


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Was the coco fiber dry when you tried to apply it to the silicone? The reason I ask is because it kind of looks wet in the picture.

The only method I know of it setting it upright and letting it fall off. I blow on it (or canned air) and shake the tank around a little to see how much falls off. Then reapply. 

After that's done you could scoop it out or vacuum it up out of the bottom.


I noticed this earlier, is your powerhead not removable? You might have problems down the line with the impeller getting all gunked up.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

/facepalm...
yeah it was damp when i put it on. damn. what should i do now?


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Hmm.. good question. I would see if any sticks first off. If it's less than 80% stick (way below 50%) I would try:

Do a test patch with some dry coco and silicone again. Let it cure, see if it bonds to the old silicone, and that the coco sticks. 

If that doesn't work let the whole shebang cure. Try Gorilla Glue and dry coco fiber. The gorilla glue likes to bubble. Use gloves. Let cure and see if everything bonds.

If that doesn't work you might have to tear the whole thing out (razor blades and elbow grease, _no_ chemicals) and try again. This time armed with better knowledge!

I know I rushed my first tank because I was so excited and regret it now. I did a lot better on my 10g vert than my big 45g. Even if you have to scrap the background you can probably save some of the false bottom and wood. Even if it is a total loss on the background it gives you time to get all your plants together, find some good substrate materials, and try new things with a new background. (i.e. put a couple pots for plants in the background, make the pump accessible in case of failure, etc)


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

o yeah i forgot to answer you on the pump question. yeah its accessible. i made a lid to the box and if something goes wrong i just have to cut the foam a little bit. there shouldn't be any clogs though i put a fine screen around the box :]

Thanks for your advice on the background i will give those options a try. hopefully i will not have to start over :[


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## bronz (Jul 29, 2008)

Also did you put the great stuff straight over the aquarium tubing? If so you might find that the expansion of the foam compresses the tube and effectively blocks it or reduces water flow. With the foam and silicone it's always best to let everything cure completely before starting the next step. Not a lot of fun when you're excited and raring to go though!


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

bronz said:


> Also did you put the great stuff straight over the aquarium tubing? If so you might find that the expansion of the foam compresses the tube and effectively blocks it or reduces water flow. With the foam and silicone it's always best to let everything cure completely before starting the next step. Not a lot of fun when you're excited and raring to go though!


Yes i installed the tubing then foamed around it. it is pretty thick tubing so i dont think the water flow will be blocked. and yep i let the foam cure before i started putting on the soil covering


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

What I like about Gorilla Glue is that it sticks even if the surfaces are damp. In fact, the directions suggest that at least one surface be dampened prior to application. I used a basting brush (cheap) to apply it. After it cured, I had to do some touch ups, but not much. I did find that the Gorilla Glue tended to foam up slightly - I think it reacts with the Great Stuff (GS). Anyway, after about a half hour, I pressed more fiber into the spots where it had foamed up enough for the GS to show. 

I think you're still okay. But I understand the frustration. I've had to completely tear down tanks before just after set up - both fish aquaria and frog vivaria. It stinks when you have to take a step back.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

what i think im going to do is: run to Lowes and pick up some gorilla glue, brush off the loose soil, use the brush that you mentioned to spread the gorilla glue and press some soil on that.

The soil seems to be taking forever to dry. its been about 12 hours and its still damp.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

i got some rocks from a hardware store down the street and rinsed them off in the tub. are these safe to put in the viv?


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

k i brushed all the soil off. ill apply the glue now and pat the soil on it


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

this looks awesome! the glue did the trick and the background stuck well!
i added some rocks and some distilled water to test the pumps and they flow great!

















Anyone have any ideas how to distort the steady stream coming out of the tube to make it more natural? i put some rocks in front of it but the rocks look out of place and unnatural right there. ill try cutting the tube at a angle so it shoots down.
Picture below shows what i mean ;]


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

...............


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Great save!!! It looks awesome. I can't wait to see it with plants and frogs.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Forgot to mention - those rocks look fine. I'd just stay away from limestone/limerock because it can raise the pH of the water. Having slightly acidic tea colored water is a good thing for dart frogs.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

whats a safe PH lvl for the darts? should i get some test strips?


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Adamrl018 said:


> whats a safe PH lvl for the darts? should i get some test strips?


I've never tested the pH before, but if you started with distilled water and circulate it so that it comes in contact with the organic substrate, it will leach tanic acid into solution, giving it that tea color. As long as it doesn't remain clear or turn blue, it should be fine. The acidic water is most important for the tadpoles because it gives them protection from fungal infections. If you raise any tadpoles you get outside the tank, then you can mix up your own "tadpole tea" to raise them in.


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Nice save man!

The rocks don't look bad to me. Cutting the tube might help. You could put a rock in front of where the flow comes directly out of. Maybe that would help. Maybe some riccia or java moss on the rock would help spread the flow out too?


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

Ah yeah! moss! i got a brick of exoterra forest moss from the store. is that good stuff or crap?

im thinking i might have built the false bottom to high if the water needs to come in contract with the substrate....its like 3 inches above the waterline....


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Nah, the water definitely does not need to come into contact with the substrate. Thats the whole point of the false bottom. You might need to add some wood from the water to the land in case a frog gets into your water feature and can't get out.

Riccia and java moss would like being constantly submerged. The exo-terra stuff would probably just rot.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

More pictures 
I will prob put more rocks in the bottom to cover the PVC.
I cant seem to get the humidity above 85% any ideas?
Id say I'm about a month out from getting the leucs. With them i want to take my time and make sure everything is clean and the viv is safe for them. I want to let the plants grow out a little.
































Im waiting on some broms from Joshs Frogs. Idk where to put the rest of the plants! :[ Do i just cut holes and start planting in the foam?


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## froggerboy (Jul 9, 2006)

I think you are fine on the humidity.I don't think I ever had my humidity consistently over 85%. there with be a humidity gradient from the water feature and dry land. 

I have a false bottom on my tank as well to kept my clay from turning into mush. a good way to hide the false bottom is to get a cutting of black pond fabric(not the plastic) and cover the entire false bottom as well as the bottom of the tank.I use a few pieces of flat thin slate to separate the water wicked up in the fabric from most of my soil 

as for your stream flow , try some gravel in-front of the stream. it will diffuse it into a trickling stream.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

I ordered some broms from joshs frogs and got them today. i put them in the tank and went to work. when i got home there what looks to be mold on the roots of the broms. :[ is this bad?
























did i tack these right?
I also got a mini-cattleya orchard. Im not to sure how to plant that. Im guessing just sink it in the substrate?


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## sk8erdave (Aug 21, 2009)

The area that the brom is in looks like it might be to wet which is making the plant rot on the base, as far as the orchid goes i don't know much about them but i know they don't like to be planted in the substrate, it would rather be pinned up is my guess 
Looking good 
Dave


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

i did have the glass lid down while i was at work with no vent.. i think that is what caused so much moisture. i need to work on building a screen for the front of the bowfront.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

yeah i did find more mold in other areas on the background too. i sprayed it down with distilled water hope that will help. ill just keep the font of the glass lid open until i get that screen made :]
The substrate is getting delivered from black jungle today so ill throw that in and plant the rest of my plants.


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## osmbr (Jun 21, 2010)

i want to try this with my 40 gal breeder tank but im scared ill mess it up and be left with a tank thats not usable wut if i made the background on egg crate then if i like it i can silicone it to the back of the tank. will this work the same

nice tank by the way cool build


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Looks great. As far as humidity, people get real confused about precise humidity. It is rare to have anything close to 100% unless the air is cooling. The dewpoint temperature is the point at which the amount of water in the air saturates the air (100% humidity) and dew forms because the air simply can't hold any more water at that temperature. When you have constant temperature, the humidity doesn't get near 100%. Condensation forms on the glass not because the air inside the tank is at its dewpoint, but because the glass is cooler than the tank air (usually from being in AC), so water condenses on the glass, like a glass of ice water on a warm day. 

Most commercially available humidity probes are probably plus or minus 10%. The best way to measure true percent humidity is with a sling psychrometer, which I've used many times. It has two thermometers attached to a handle so that they can be twirled in circles. One of the thermometers has an absorbant "sock" around the bulb that is soaked in water. You twirl the device for a few minutes and you get "wet bulb" and "dry bulb" temps. At 100% humidity, no water will evaporate and the temps will be the same. The dryer it is, the more water will evaporate and the lower the wet bulb temp. You plug that into and equation and get relative percent humidity (relative refers to percent humidity relative to the ambient temp. 

Sorry for the science geek ramble. This is a looooong winded way of saying that your humidity is fine.

On my bowfront, I drilled holes in the plastic strip on the back of the lid at about 1-inch spacing and it's done great for nearly two years.

Any organic matter below the water line will eventually rot and will allow moisture to wick up into the soil, keeping it pretty darn wet, so I try to keep the water levels in my tanks below the top of the gravel, or other inorganic substrate that I use before adding soil.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

JimO said:


> Looks great. As far as humidity, people get real confused about precise humidity. It is rare to have anything close to 100% unless the air is cooling. The dewpoint temperature is the point at which the amount of water in the air saturates the air (100% humidity) and dew forms because the air simply can't hold any more water at that temperature. When you have constant temperature, the humidity doesn't get near 100%. Condensation forms on the glass not because the air inside the tank is at its dewpoint, but because the glass is cooler than the tank air (usually from being in AC), so water condenses on the glass, like a glass of ice water on a warm day.
> 
> Most commercially available humidity probes are probably plus or minus 10%. The best way to measure true percent humidity is with a sling psychrometer, which I've used many times. It has two thermometers attached to a handle so that they can be twirled in circles. One of the thermometers has an absorbant "sock" around the bulb that is soaked in water. You twirl the device for a few minutes and you get "wet bulb" and "dry bulb" temps. At 100% humidity, no water will evaporate and the temps will be the same. The dryer it is, the more water will evaporate and the lower the wet bulb temp. You plug that into and equation and get relative percent humidity (relative refers to percent humidity relative to the ambient temp.
> 
> ...


Thanks jim! how big are your holes in the strip? i might go for that then glue some screen across the strip.
I was also thinking of getting a timer for the light. whats good hours to have the light on and off?


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

A timer is a great idea. 12 on 12 off is usually the standard. You can go to Home Depot/Lowes and get one of those surge protectors that has a timer built in.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

Took some more pictures today 
















I read somewhere that the catalina can be attached to the background or a log so i zip tied it to the branch i had sticking out. well see how it does.








Im still haveing a little bit of mold issues. I ordered some springtales from josh's frogs to help with that.









I also ordered a FF culturing kit from joshs frogs so i can learn and start culturing my own flys.
Also got a couple more aquatic plants from black jungle "Cryptocoryne lucens, Salvinia natans"


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Nice man. Mold likes to crop up sometimes. It shouldn't really be a problem. You might want to get some black contact paper (from a craft store) to cover up the false bottom from the front. I like that you're planting the aquatic area too.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

so im prob going to get my frogs this weekend would 6 be ok in this size of tank?


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

When you first set up a viv, everything tends to mold over a bit as it is adjusting to the higher humidity and the microfauna havent gotten a real chance to get established in the tank. As time moves forward, you'll notice that the ugly mold will start to subside and dcool new fungi (read mushrooms), will appear!

-Matt


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Adamrl018 said:


> Thanks jim! how big are your holes in the strip? i might go for that then glue some screen across the strip.
> I was also thinking of getting a timer for the light. whats good hours to have the light on and off?


The holes are about 1/8 inch and I have a timer that comes on at 9:00 am and off at 9:30 pm.


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## dendro-dude (Jan 25, 2010)

Very nice tank, man. Impressive


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

heres some new pics! the past week i havent had the back plastic strip on and that seem to keep the front glass clear of condansation, so i did as you jim and cut some holes and glued some "no-see-em" screen to the strip. well see how that works out when it comes to feeding time ;D








Im at a steady 85%

































Im getting my leucs tomorrow 
FFs are waiting to be eatin!


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

got my froglets yesterday 









































I also decided to take out some of the substrate to level the land out. instead of having that big slope


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Outstanding results. The large holes with the screen is a great idea. I have another tank where the small holes just aren't enough to keep the condensation down. I'm going to try your method. Thanks.

The frogs look great too!

BTW - I have the same ground cover shown in the photo of the coco hut. I have forgotton the name. Do you know what it's called? It grows like crazy in the lighted areas. I have to cut it back every month or so.

Congrats on a job well done!


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

JimO said:


> Outstanding results. The large holes with the screen is a great idea. I have another tank where the small holes just aren't enough to keep the condensation down. I'm going to try your method. Thanks.
> 
> The frogs look great too!
> 
> ...


Thanks! 

Wel one of the planets is labeled on black jungle as "Selaginella - Kraussiana "Gold Tips"" I went to lowes and found a couple that looked the same as the one from black jungle i dont have the labels anymore :[


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## dendro-dude (Jan 25, 2010)

Impressive tank. Good looking froglets


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

Im interested in getting some peat moss to spinkle over the back ground. 
Im tring to make it have a more "greener" look to it.
Anyone have any ideas?
Its been a couple of weeks and the frogs are doing great :] one of the bigger one likes to hang out behind the waterfall or in the roots of the orchird.
Their all very cute during feeding time :3


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

anyone have any ideas?


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Adamrl018 said:


> anyone have any ideas?


You could plant some climbing ficus or other vines. With adequate light, they'll cover the background, but it won't happen over night. Most of them start out slow from cuttings, but then really get going. If you get a potted specimen, it will probably spread more quickly. Also, try different kinds of moss. Just press small pieces into cracks and make sure it gets misted daily. Those that "like" the conditions will spread.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Your viv looks great.

You may have done this already...I would cut the point off of those toothpicks holding the broms in place.

Don't want a frog to lose an eye.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

Adamrl018 said:


>


i dont know if its been mentioned but you REALLY need to plug the gaps between the plastic on the lid and the cords/ hoses!!!!

james


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

theres no gap there. its flush with the top rim of the tank and the background.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

gotcha 

james


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

im thinking of putting some type of intank circulation in the viv. It seems pretty muggy. Is this recommended?


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

This tank looks infinitely better than my first build. I'd throw some leaf litter between the plants to support micro fauna populations.


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## Adamrl018 (Jun 18, 2010)

Its been about a month and the leucs are doin great! their a little chubby side though 
I made an in-tank fan from that diy thread. I know its HUGE but thats the smallest most least expensive fan the computer store around here had. ill prob take it out once i build a bigger tank. but for now its doing its job :]

































Im a bit concerned about my water plants most of the leafs are turning tan.

















O, and i found a snail this morning... idk where it came from. It was pretty small, but i got rid of it fast. Hopefully it didnt lay eggs.


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