# Custom LED color combinations!



## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

I have been working with an aftermarket LED retrofit company called Steve's LEDs to develop a vivarium version of their hood retrofits for several popular tank sizes and manufactures (Red Sea, BioCube Coralife and Oceanic, Nano Cube, ext). We wanted to reach out to the community in regards to color spectrum and intensity. So the question is, what spectrum, par, for the healthiest plants and how many satellite colors (blues, reds, ext) to highlight the flowers and frogs color?

A few LED ratio recommendations (such as 50:50 Royal Blue:Cool White) would be great! Here are the colors available: 

365nm ultraviolet
420nm Violet
440nm Royal Blue 
460nm Cool Blue
510nm Cyan
540nm Deep Green
575nm-650nm broad amber (orange)
600nm - Red-Orange
640nm - Standard Red
670nm - Deep Red

All input is welcome!

I have a build that is about to start that I will be documented on the forum showing these hoods and the potential that they have for the hobby!!!


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I have no idea where they fit into your list of possible colors, but I find the colors in the Jungle Dawn multi-color bulbs more pleasing to the eye than the solid white ones. I am not that good with colors (red-green color blind) but even I can see the differences in my tanks when I use each of those two bulbs. I think the multi-color JDs are mainly using red and blue to augment the white. Both bulb colors seem to grow plants well. I have to admit that, after watching the multi-color JDs for a while, I wish that my other LED fixtures had satellite colors, as well, even though they are "6500K."

Good luck! I will be interested in seeing what you come up with. I am always a willing beta tester, too ;-)

Mark


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Sounds good and noted! Lol so 6500k target with a few extra for color Pop would be aesthetically pleasing but for the growth and plant health 6500k is king?


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

kblack3 said:


> A few LED ratio recommendations (such as 50:50 Royal Blue:Cool White) would be great! Here are the colors available:
> 
> 365nm ultraviolet
> 420nm Violet
> ...


I have been looking into this for a while and almost made a custom order from BML (Build My LED), but one of their planted tank strips popped up on CL and I went for it instead.

The graph shown in this linked thread - http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/230602-led-choices-lighting-info.html - indicates that 400-500nm, and wavelengths in the high 600nm range, would be ideal to include in a fixture for plant growth. For our enjoyment, I would think that half, or more than half, of the diodes could be around 6,300K to 6,700K.

Below is the custom configuration I was working on at the BML website and the graphed output analyses (very nice website feature!), before I found a more economical solution that gave me a very similar product. I think the setup below could work and look good to our eyes, but it is still theoretical - and it was based on this config repeated 4X, for a 48" strip - but I can't imagine why it wouldn't be an improvement compared with the typical light sources available. The 625nm LED I selected could probably be replaced with another 660nm diode (670nm if we are talking about the available colors in your OP). You can see in the color graph that this config is very close to blue/red, but still should produce an overall white light effect.

PAR values shown through air should be of interested here, but they don't have a graph for 'through glass and air'... now all we need is a fixture that is completely waterproof and low wattage so it can be mounted inside the vivarium.





I would also look into variable wattage since vivariums can range from 12" to 48"+ tall, I think the BML add-on dimmer achieves this too.
Mike


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## Greasy (Sep 1, 2011)

White LEDs have a lot of blue already, you may be able to get away with something like 10 cool whites and 4 deep reds. That should hit most of the important spectrums.


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Yep, and you could also skip the red LEDs, since we have proven that plants grow without them. Just imagine how much better you could grow plants with a few LEDs that only emit 400-500nm, versus 10 that only produce _some_ blue wavelength. Below are graphs showing the output if only 6,500K LEDs are used (just to see the difference at the blue end). At any rate, there seems to be less output at around 400nm and under (no ultraviolet) and a big dip about about 470nm. 




And again, this is a graph showing the wavelength ranges of both ends of the spectrum for optimal plant growth:










And the custom configuration I mentioned two posts above:


I am not saying there is only one right way to skin this cat, but rather that if there is an opportunity to do more, why suggest less?


Mike


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Agreed I was also thinking that if I did more blues and wanted a pure color throwing a lime or two could easily balance it out to make the tank visually brighter and assist in "mixing" the blue visually? Any ideas on that? We were leaning towards 14 LEDs in a 2x7 pattern roughly for one of the layouts. These will be controllable too and we aren't opposed to multiple layouts, so a standard and pro version would be cool


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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

Not sure, but you could try adding another red for each blue diode to soften the visual affect. However, I would think that you would reach a tipping point where too many blue or red LEDs will just make everything look too dark. I have a couple of these LED fixtures that have blue and red LEDs and the overall affect is darker, bluer light than I'd prefer to look at, but the plants are doing well... My guess is that if over half the LEDs produce white light, the affect would likely be pleasing to the eye, but even 50:50 might be overkill.

How much spacing between diodes and what kind of wattage are you looking at?


Mike


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

3w and the tank is 20" wide so no less than 1.5" apart no more than 2.5" apart. This is the existing layout for the 29 gal BioCube to give you an idea of products they already produce

http://shop.stevesleds.com/Biocube-29-LED-Light-System-Extreme-SPS-8794102423.htm



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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

I think you are on the right track with the wattage and layout, but you could probably use as little as 1w LEDs unless the tank is really tall. The controllable wattage option is great so the intensity could be adjusted for various tanks and plant selections.

Looking forward to see what you turn out from this project. 

Mike


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Awesome thanks I will let you know as soon as they have a prototype built and post pics. Also, since you seem to know quite a bit about the color spectrums I was talking to some guys on the planted tank forum and they were emphasizing specifically using the 660nm Reds. Is that accurate for maximizing growth and health for terrestrial and arboreal plants as well?


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## AbeV (Jul 12, 2015)

Another option that may work would be to toss in a few RGB dream color LED's. They can be ran individually off of an Arduino. I was thinking of doing some along the lines off a majority of cool whites, with a couple blue and red mixed in, along with a few of the dream color LED's to customize the look by using other colors to blend it all together.

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## roxrgneiss (Sep 30, 2007)

kblack3 said:


> ...they were emphasizing specifically using the 660nm Reds. Is that accurate for maximizing growth and health for terrestrial and arboreal plants as well?


Yes, that is correct. I would recommend using two of the 660nm LED (670nm from your list would be fine) to achieve the far red spectrum. 

Based on your 14 diode set up, I would recommend including one of each of the following:

365nm ultraviolet
420nm Violet 
460nm Cool Blue
510nm Cyan

That would cover both the blue range and the red, while still giving you room for 8 white diodes, just over 50% white. Essentially, you could make one of the 7 diode strips all white with a red near each end, then blue/white alternating on the other 7 diode strip, (1 blue, 1 white, 1 blue, 1 white, 1 blue, 1 white, 1 blue - and mixing the blues up rather than placing them in wavelength sequence from high to low). Just a recommendation - that is how I would set this up.

Mike


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Okay I know it's been a little delay, work and remodel with two kids under 3 is draining to say the least lol. I like the thought of maximizing growth but also want to emphasize color as well as UV exposure for the frogs so I wanted to shoot an idea past you:
Channel one - 6 6500k , 2 UV
Channel two - 2 red 640nm (better visually and still get some red peak for growth) , 2 royal blue (increase par add color and growth) , 2 lime for visual brightness and color blending
Channel 3 - 4 royal blue (add to the day for optimal color and growth fade to dim at night for lunar cycles)?


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

I'd recommend getting a little deep red and cyan in there if possible. There are countless threads on this subject in great detail in various planted tank forums, I think you may get more experienced feedback from them. A lot of them cross over into our hobby as well.


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Channel 2 sub 2 royal blue for 2 cyan? 


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

I want everything to be visually pleasing first and foremost rapid plant growth second so long as visually pleasing and healthy plants coincide 


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

Let me preface that I'm not an expert on LEDs or color spectrum, but am well read on the subject and if you read enough or talk to enough actual experts I think you'll find that that most will agree that cyan is deficient in most led light color combinations on the market. From what I understand it is important for certain pigment production in plants as well as enhancing the different shades of greens in our plants. 6500k lights are already high in the green and blue part of the spectrum, but not cyan. Deep red is just really good for plants, I don't know how it effects visuals. But please check with the planted tank forums too.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

ChrisAZ said:


> Let me preface that I'm not an expert on LEDs or color spectrum, but am well read on the subject and if you read enough or talk to enough actual experts I think you'll find that that most will agree that cyan is deficient in most led light color combinations on the market. From what I understand it is important for certain pigment production in plants as well as enhancing the different shades of greens in our plants. 6500k lights are already high in the green and blue part of the spectrum, but not cyan. Deep red is just really good for plants, I don't know how it effects visuals. But please check with the planted tank forums too.



I'll 2nd that and add that any fixture that does that then also hits the 660nm red zone,and perhaps some deep blue beyond what most fixture put out (which I believe helps plants manage their grown and not become to leggy when red spurs their growth), will get more attention from me. Add a storm feature with sound loop and dawn/dusk cycle and I'll really take a hard look at it 

Some UV is a nice touch. 365nm is UVa and won't help with uvb needs, but it does penetrate glass much better and there is evidence it can be beneficial to animals and even some benefit to plants. My guess is that this is in part why fluorescent lights grow plants so well. Most have some uva, which can actually get past our glass. Hopefully someday uvb led will come into there own, but so far I think they are to cost prohibitive and the Nm range to narrow unless you use several different ones, which likely adds.to cost.


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Channel 2 sub red 640nm for 670nm


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Lights are in going to fire up build thread soon. Custom fixture from steves LEDs with bluefish light controller which does realtime weather! Very pumped


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

Looking forward to it!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

kblack3 said:


> Channel 2 sub red 640nm for 670nm
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does this mean 640's instead of 660-70's?? Because I think that the 660's do make a difference. That's in part why so many people like the finnex planted + fixtures since they were affordable and included 660nm reds... Most of the "normal" red led's or ones that use rgb are in the 620-640nm range and not as optimal for the plants.


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Nope the opposite sorry about the poor wording this was what we went with:

channel 1: 6x 6500k white with 2x 365nm UVA 
Channel 2: 2x cyan, 2x deep red, 2x lime 
Channel 3: 7x royal blue 

Controlled with this https://aquarium-led-controller.com/product/bluefish-mini-ldd-controller/


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)




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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

kblack3 said:


> Nope the opposite sorry about the poor wording this was what we went with:
> 
> channel 1: 6x 6500k white with 2x 365nm UVA
> Channel 2: 2x cyan, 2x deep red, 2x lime
> ...


Ah cool... How does that spectrum look compared to typical 6500k lights?

The mix looks good, except kinda heavy on the blue end: but that's just a guess from the numbers... So I'm curious to know how it compares aesthetically to something I'm more familiar with.


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Dendro Dave said:


> Ah cool... How does that spectrum look compared to typical 6500k lights?
> 
> 
> 
> The mix looks good, except kinda heavy on the blue end: but that's just a guess from the numbers... So I'm curious to know how it compares aesthetically to something I'm more familiar with.



Heavy blue was simply for even night lights they are on their own channel so they will be necked down for sure. I haven't rigged it yet but they took these unfinished shot of their snake after the build 







the controller wasn't setup on it either so this was just all channels same power output


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/Q257F2


American Dad Living The American Dream


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

Just testing the Flickr I think I will stick to the tapatalk for my build thread till its done then maybe compile a link with the whole album


American Dad Living The American Dream


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## wlrodman (Nov 3, 2015)

Hey Folks - I've got about 3 versions of BML's that I've purchased over the years. My first lights were heavy in blue and reds as this thread seems to identify as necessary. But, I have to tell you, I didn't get the look I wanted until I added in orange and lime. You need a few of those just to make the light look natural. I also figured out that I needed two light strips, because one just isn't enough to grow the plants. I time the second light strip to come on an hour and half after the first, just to give the vivarium some time to "wake up" in the morning. The second light is an off the shelf, cheapo, strip light that is primarily whites with some blue and red. Maybe this helps?


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## kblack3 (Mar 9, 2015)

That's what I ended up with don't recall the exact layout but when the build thread starts I will be sure to mention it!


American Dad Living The American Dream


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