# Paper mâché + drylok = success?



## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Viv builders and froggers!

So, I have been wanting to incorporate "rock walls" into my future vivs. I have seen so many badass walls/rocks people make out of GS, styrofoam or pink insulation. Well I have been dabbling with pink insulation and my rock wall sucked. Ha. Just looks too fake. I am sure I do not have the artistic talent to pull it off. So I am trying to think of different ways to make mine look more natural. 

I recently bought a gallon of drylok, cement color, sanding blocks and acrylic paint. 

My question is, if i take bunches of paper crumpled up, masking taped down, to let's say a piece of 12"x12" glass, and then cover the crumpled paper with paper mâché and add 2-4 coats of drylok over it. Would this work? Would it hold up well in humid conditions? I'm assuming the drylok would seal the paper mâché work and keep it from deteriorating. I saw a thing for this on Pinterest under "making fake rocks". 

Does anyone have any experience with this idea? Surely it should work if there's enough drylok to coat or "seal" it, right?
I did a mock up last night and it looks pretty rad! 

Thank you


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## cbridgeman (Sep 30, 2013)

My only concern would be that if moisture ever did get into the paper mâché area, through a pinhole or crack in the Drylok, it would cause a big mess and/or destroy the rock feature.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

I would agree with the potential for a big mess. At the very least, I would think you would have to build it unattached to the glass so you could be sure to coat all sides in drylock.


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

That's what I was afraid. Ideally I would construct it on a separate piece of glass, take that glass and silicone/GS it to the back of the tank.
Do yal think its a waste of time most likely? 
Maybe the more I practice making fake rocks, I'll finally get it 😝


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## ibarran (Jan 5, 2015)

I've found that have the right blades makes a huge difference when carving fake rocks out of Great stuff foam and styrofoam. It's well worth it to pick up an x acto knife set. The really long, curved blades worked well for me. I bought a knock off set from harbor freight for $15 and it made it so much easier to carved jagged edges and details.


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## DartSolo (Sep 7, 2014)

Hey, you never know if it will work until you try. All of us can only give you guesses of what will happen unless someone tried it before. I say go for it and tell us the results!


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Paper mache is typically made from either gypsum or pva glue and paper. Both are not water stable and will erode quickly when wet. I tried years back to cover a tree armature made with wire covered with gypsum soaked gauze and then sealed with epoxy but even with the epoxy seal, water got behind it and made my faux tree's branches limp and droopy and sad. Would have been funny if it didn't ruin the entire background. 

So yea, no PVA glues. (Elmer's white glue)
No gypsum products. (Plaster of paris, plaster, gypsum, hobby plaster, CaSO4 2H2O)

Water attacks them at the chemical level. Doesn't matter how much bonding agent or sealer or this additive or that. It is not viv proof. Trust me. I've spent a metric BLEEP load of time, money, and effort to design one that is. But without basically using the PVA or gypsum as a filler for what is really your binding/gluing material, it doesn't work. Which sucks because it's super cheap and would be great to use. For 100% dry builds though, GO FOR IT!


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

5 or so years ago there was a Danish/Swedish company that made something like that. It was a paper based "clay", supposedly completely non-toxic and became rock hard and waterproof after a few days of curing used for making backgrounds and similar in vivariums and aquariums. 
They don't seem to be in business anymore but I found an old post on a Swedish forum from the "inventor" that said that it was (mainly) made from paper wool, sand and a waterproofing membrane called "LIP VS 30".

Maybe something to experiment with? As I recall it was very easy to work with and fairly inexpensive.

Edit:Looks like I read the OP a little too fast, I thought it was about using Drylok instead of glue to make a waterproof type of Papier-mâché.


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## Erikb3113 (Oct 1, 2008)

That is an interesting idea! I imagine it would take forever to fully dry tho, and possibly not work except on horizontal surfaces.


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Thank you for all the replies!! I think yal are basically right. It would be a bust. It would be cool if it was a dry habitat, that I might do one day. 
I let the paper mâché dry for 4 days. Ha, it's so delicate, no way it work or I would feel comfortable doing it. 
I'm gonna go ahead and get some sweet exacto knives and continue to get better at making rocks. 
Thank you!


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

You could always make your
paper mache rocks (assuming they are hollow) and use them as a great stuff mold. Just spray the GS in the mold coating the inside and then soak the paper off in a few days when it's dry. You then could incorporate then into your background.


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Not a bad idea man


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

If your going to go through all that effort, just go with a real molding/casting product. You'll get infinite better detail and look for your effort. Just isn't cheap.

Vivarium Works Online Shop


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Sweet!!


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

The isn't cheap part is right. It's cheaper to use alginate and silicone for a hobbyists. Takes longer to dry but works.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

You can actually paper mache over an oiled rock and get some pretty good detail though.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

It all depends on what you are looking for. If you want 1:1 of something you find in the field while on vacation or out hiking, this is what is going to work best. I have not found any better option so I designed my own. 

Alginate doesn't have hardly any flexibility, is a 1 time only use, and doesn't work with a lot of casting materials.

I assume you mean silicone sealant molds? Those could potentially work if you took the time to dry multiple thin layers and properly support them and can get it (remember it's an adhesive) to remove from your rock.

I tried both options but didn't like the results.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Oh I know all casting methods I'm just not gonna shell out that kind of cash for me to play around to make one or two rocks lol. If I sold them it would be different it's just playing for me though and doing it cheap is half the fun in my book. =)


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

I didn't realize you were self marketing something (vivariumworks) this is not the platform for that in my opinion. This post is about paper mache. If we were looking for a product to buy there are hundreds that's not exactly what the OP was asking. I don't mean to be rude I just guess I get tired of being bombarded buy sales pitching. 

I apologize to Mohlerbear for moving off topic. =)


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

gee...guess the method of torn newspapers and flour/water mix wouldn't work either...hmm


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## 4w350m3 (Dec 6, 2014)

While paper mache probably wouldn't work very well, I've tried plaster cloth, which I noticed in art class won't absorb water after it hardens, and thought about making some fake rocks out of that, covered in a layer of cement. To test it, I made a 'pool' area in an old tank that holds about a gallon of water, and so far it seems to work, but I've only had water in it for about two weeks.
This isn't a very good picture, but...


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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Judy S said:


> gee...guess the method of torn newspapers and flour/water mix wouldn't work either...hmm



That's what I tried. It just wasn't gonna hold up. In some kind of desert terrarium, it would easy/cheap. 


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Get a 2 quart kit of epoxy like Vivarium works cast or Zoopoxy. Roughly about $50 for a kit and can make about 3-4 rocks depending on size....

I have used both and highly recommend them.... Not overly expensive and will get much better results then paper mache.


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