# Chytrid... Is there a cure?



## darrensimps (Aug 23, 2009)

Hi, following on from my previous post about my escudo, pcr test is underway, will find out midweek. 

If positive, I was wondering if there is a definite cure that kills 100% of the fungus? I read one article/post and says yes and the next article/post says no?

For a plumber, I'm finding it difficult to get my head around!


----------



## bastimentos (Jun 23, 2012)

I am pretty sure there is a cure its just seems that getting a hold of it would be difficult if it is the same solution used at amphibian rescue centers.


----------



## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

bastimentos said:


> I am pretty sure there is a cure its just seems that getting a hold of it would be difficult if it is the same solution used at amphibian rescue centers.


isn't it just over the counter lamasil (sp)?


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 23, 2009)

Splash&Dash said:


> isn't it just over the counter lamasil (sp)?


I read the sticky about this, just hasn't read anything else about it.


----------



## bastimentos (Jun 23, 2012)

Maybe it is, I just know there is a cure


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Yes, there is...PM me Where did you get your test done...and are you following STRICT quarantine procedures??? If not, and you have perhaps accidently exposed the rest of your population, you will have to perhaps treat all your frogs....and I'd have to wonder about your tanks...that part I know nothing about. 

Which posts are you referring to? Please be ready to refer to those as well...


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

it is actually easily eradicated from a frog assuming it hasnt spread to other vivs.

the enclosure should be considered in QT in its entirety and will need to be broken down and sterilized.

The frog should be in a QT set up and there are treatment protocols available on here by search.

PCR testing should only take a day to get results, once they get the samples

VetDNA.com

Personally I wouldnt wait, I'd be treating 'as if' + until proven otherwise and would already have had baths underway

Good luck


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't know what ultimately happened with this frog but here is a thread where a leuc was being treated: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/31507-leuc-chytrid.html


----------



## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

sports_doc said:


> it is actually easily eradicated from a frog assuming it hasnt spread to other vivs.
> 
> the enclosure should be considered in QT in its entirety and will need to be broken down and sterilized.
> 
> ...


Shawn,

I assume you've used this lab for PCR testing for Bd? What does a test usually run. They're actually quite close to me and I could get samples to them quickly and cheaply being only 4 hours away. I have some new frogs coming to test and I don't have access to my old way of getting tests run for a variety of reasons.


----------



## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Shawn,
> 
> I assume you've used this lab for PCR testing for Bd? What does a test usually run. They're actually quite close to me and I could get samples to them quickly and cheaply being only 4 hours away. I have some new frogs coming to test and I don't have access to my old way of getting tests run for a variety of reasons.


It's ether $18 or $20. I test for both Chytrid and Ranivrus and it costs $38 for both


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 23, 2009)

The frog in question has died and is being kept by the vets, the remaining frog is in a small rearing viv that was their temporary home since they came. Not attached to the mist system and not on the same bench as the permenant vivs. The pcr test can't be done until Monday and its being done by Edinburgh university vets department here in Scotland, they don't deal with these tests very often, probably why it takes so long. 


However, I don't want this thread to go off course, I'm asking what known 100% cures are out there. 

I've read the lamisil luec treatment thread twice now.


----------



## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

darrensimps said:


> The frog in question has died and is being kept by the vets, the remaining frog is in a small rearing viv that was their temporary home since they came. Not attached to the mist system and not on the same bench as the permenant vivs. The pcr test can't be done until Monday and its being done by Edinburgh university vets department here in Scotland, they don't deal with these tests very often, probably why it takes so long.
> 
> 
> However, I don't want this thread to go off course, I'm asking what known 100% cures are out there.
> ...


Lamisil dosen't come in a spray anymore, only cream. Itraconazole works


----------



## darrensimps (Aug 23, 2009)

jeffr said:


> Lamisil dosen't come in a spray anymore, only cream. Itraconazole works


What about here in the UK? Will have a look today.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Here is some info from Wiki, some of which I have found corroborating info for in other sources (frankly I didn't bother to search much but do remember reading some of this other places). Here are 2 of the most relevant statements...

*1.
Research[edit]

Laboratory studies suggest that the amphibian chytrid fungus grows best between 17-25°C,[6] and that exposure of infected frogs to high temperatures can cure the frogs.[7] In nature, the more time individual frogs were found at temperatures above 25°C, the less likely they were to be infected by the amphibian chytrid.[8] This may explain why chytridiomycosis-induced amphibian declines have occurred primarily at higher elevations and during cooler months.[9] It has been shown that naturally produced cutaneous peptides can inhibit the growth of B. dendrobatidis when the infected amphibians are around temperatures near 10 °C (50 °F), allowing species like the northern leopard frog (Rana pipiens) to clear the infection in about 15% of cases.[10]*

*2.
Treatment options[edit|edit source]

Reid Harris of James Madison University has found that coating frogs with Janthinobacterium lividum appears to protect them from chytridiomycosis.[15]
Archey's frog, Leiopelma archeyi, was successfully cured of chytridiomycosis by applying chloramphenicol topically.[16]
Use of rooibos tea (Aspalathus linearis) in container water was found by Jay Redmond at WWT Slimbridge, Gloucestershire, to effectively ward off chytridiomycosis in poison dart frogs.[17]*

Here is the amphibian ark page on cytrid, but first I'll paste the section on *itraconazole*. This section and a section on keeping BD/cytrid out of your collection are beneath a table of labs that perform testing so be sure to scroll past that so you don't miss something. At first I assume that was the end of the article 
*Can chytridiomycosis be treated?
In captive amphibians, chytridiomycosis can be successfully treated with antifungal medications and by disinfection of contaminated enclosures (Pessier and Mendelson, 2010). A variety of different antifungal medications have been described for the treatment of chytridiomycosis, however, one of the most common methods was developed at the Smithsonian National Zoo and uses a series of baths in the drug itraconazole (Nichols and Lamirande, 2000). Itraconazole baths have been used successfully in rescue operations that capture wild amphibians from populations that are experiencing deaths to chytridiomycosis (Gagliardo et al., 2008). Other potential treatment methods include the use of elevated body temperature and paradoxically, the antibiotic chloramphenicol. Treatment is not always 100% successful and not all amphibians tolerate treatment very well, therefore chytridiomycosis should always be treated with the advice of a veterinarian.]*

I wonder for those who can reasonably exercise control over their temps, if warming the room/vivs to near 77F or slightly above isn't a prudent measure during treatment since most darts can tolerate temps into the low 80's for fairly decent stretches of time. Of course you may want to take into account the species/morph of the frogs being treated and their current condition, and should of course be careful doing this and diligently monitor the temps and frogs. 

It may be unwise to do this for an entire collection and/or frogs that haven't shown signs or tested positive. It may also not be wise to stress some frogs with higher temps during first stages of treatment...Then again maybe it is best to just hit the disease hard from the start. I don't know...Those are decisions individuals will have make on their own, or better yet under the guidance of a qualified herp vet.

I also wonder if some of the above treatments/cures couldn't be used together. I don't know how easy it is to get ahold of Janthinobacterium lividum, or cloramphenicol, but one or both of those used with other treatments such as lamisil(or other meds) and/or perhaps adding a safe concentration of rooibos tea to viv/misting water and increasing viv temperature, may be a way to attack the fungus in multiple ways simultaneously.

Ok did a little searching and if anyone wants to buy some cloramphenicol and/or roobius tea perhaps this will get you started...
http://www.amazon.com/Freshpak-Rooibos-Tagless-Bags-Pack/dp/B0001590IC *Roobios tea*

*Chloramphenicol source (May be RX)*
http://www.petfooddirect.com/produc...s?extcid=PLA&gclid=COj-ndXez7gCFUFyQgodHW4AIA
And an article about cloramphenicol treatment on frogs...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/11/071102-frog-fungus_2.html

*Itraconazole* (pretty sure is RX)I think is prescription from a vet...but you may check out the fish medications in some pet stores as they often sell stuff for fish that would be prescription for people or dogs/cats/other pets.
https://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/itraconazole

Other relavent articles...
Research paper that I don't have full access to but that might be very helpful to us if anyone does have access...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22422126 
"Here, we report on the comparison of several novel treatments with a more generally accepted antifungal treatment in experimental scientific trials to treat Bd-infected frogs including Alytes obstetricans tadpoles and metamorphs, Bufo bufo and Limnodynastes peronii metamorphs, and Lithobates pipiens and Rana muscosa adults. The experimental treatments included commercial antifungal products (itraconazole, mandipropamid, steriplantN, and PIP Pond Plus), antimicrobial skin peptides from the Bd-resistant Pelophylax esculentus, microbial treatments (Pedobacter cryoconitis), and heat therapy (35°C for 24 h)" <---Just me?... or does that heat protocol seem a bit extreme?

*0–5 ppt (parts per thousand)Table salt solution for cytrid treatment?*
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0036942


----------



## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Here is a good link from Amphibian Ark:
Chytrid Fungus « Amphibian Ark

Itraconazole is the preferred treatment. Keep in mind "real time" PCR is better, no such thing as a false positive but can have a false negative so best to test twice. 
I would not treat unless there is a confirmed positive with a Vets guidance.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Some of the mentioned drugs have to be mixed with amphibian Ringers...and that in itself is an important element to be aware of. It took me quite a while to track down how it is different than other types of Ringers...and then had to get it compounded by that type of pharmacy. The measurements are quite precise...The Lamisil that is used is available through the internet, I got some sent from somewhere in Europe... The company that makes the Lamisil is retooling that is why it has become hard to find...but will eventually be readily available again.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Well I kept coming up for Edits on my original post and getting side tracked by bioluminescent and fluorescent bacteria/fungi research, and DB blocked me because of the time limit so here are a few more additions...

2 somewhat impractical sources for Janthinobacterium lividum. One is labeled OSU, which here in OK in Stillwater where I went to college they have the Vet program, so that may be a good school to contact for sourcing...or maybe it was refering to Ohio...which I know nothing about. But a willing college dept./proffesor/ student or TA may be the most practical way to go...
ATCC Bacteria Alphanumeric (Genus / Species) Page 1
Violacein from Janthinobacterium lividum|548-54-9||Reagents|Bulk Package|Sample|Standard Substance|Reference Sample|Pharmaceutical Intermediates|Biochemical Reagents|V9389|J&K Chemical Supplies

Another cytrid treament article, mentioning *betadine bath *
FDR Inc. The Australian Diseases - Chytrid Fungus Treatment Techniques


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Judy S said:


> Some of the mentioned drugs have to be mixed with amphibian Ringers...and that in itself is an important element to be aware of. It took me quite a while to track down how it is different than other types of Ringers...and then had to get it compounded by that type of pharmacy. The measurements are quite precise...The Lamisil that is used is available through the internet, I got some sent from somewhere in Europe... The company that makes the Lamisil is retooling that is why it has become hard to find...but will eventually be readily available again.


In searching for Lamisil sprays, or really anything since most sellers provide pics of products, google image search is often a good way to quickly find products instead of wading through pages of text results. Hover over the picture results and look for links that appear to be from .com's or blogs that may list sources.


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Go to Amazon...it is 1 percent Lamisil spray...I'd send you what I have, but it would be more expensive...


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

There is another way to kill Chytrid, but it is useless on frogs. It only works to disinfect contaminated equipment. Completely drying something out will kill chytrid quite effectively. You can simply, FULLY dry out your viv, your ghostwood and corkbark, even your substrate can be reused if you COMPLETELY dry it out.
Obviously, you cannot treat a live plant, bugs, or your frogs, with this treatment.


----------



## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Actually high temps kills it:
Cages can be cleaned with 10% bleach and autoclaved twice a week (Harris et al. 2009a). Water, soil, or habitat material in contact with amphibians can be disinfected by heating to a temperature over 47°C for 30 min (Johnson and Speare 2003; Johnson et al. 2003). Water used in amphibian enclosures should be disinfected before disposal; heating to 37°C for 4 hours, 30 minutes at 47°C, or 60°C for 5+ minutes will kill Bd (Young et al. 2007).


----------



## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Chytrid usually kills within 1 or 2 days of the symptoms being noticed, a sloughing of the skin is the most obvious sign. Hot soapy water will disinfect a viv but I would personally bleach and then throw all of the contents away, as for the frog any anti fungal medication containing Miconizole will work. 
In my case I dissolved the anti fungal cream in warm water and doused the frogs for a minute or so for 8 or 9 days, each day moving from 1 critter keeper to cleaned one. I kept my animals on wet paper towels, throwing them away after each move. After 8 or 9 treatments my animals were fine, but by the time I noticed the problem to the time I got back from the store with the cream to start treating 2 animals had died. When you notice the issue you are lucky to have 24 hours before death ensues. Chytrid seems to be activated by cool temps and then about 4 weeks later everything in the tank dies if not treated.
The animals I saved are the basis for most if not all of the yellow Terribilis here in the states, you just have to know what to look for. Be super careful with European imports as that is where the first US cases originated.


----------

