# New Mexico might outlaw private ownership of dart frogs



## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

Here's another proposal that threatens keeping amphibians.
New Mexico Importation Rule, NM Department of Game and Fish - Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i really hope they dont', once they do it in one state, others will follow.


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## deviousk (Apr 12, 2010)

This is a bunch of BS. They just keep screwing up the economy more and more. This is how some people make their money.


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## dakotaaiken (Apr 5, 2010)

they need to outlaw something that is doing bad for this country. But they want to mess with the people who are doing harmless things for hobbies. I kinda see outlawing big Burmese pythons but frogs that most are not poisonous at all.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

is there something non residents of New Mexico can do to get them to take dart frogs off that list?


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## Mercedesherp (Apr 1, 2008)

Start by joining, donating to, and supporting USARK.org.
The dommino effect will quickly gain momentum if the python bill goes thru,
and, just because someone else wishes to keep a Reticulated Python, does not mean they dont have any amphibians. Herptoculturists are all linked together, and the time is now to
do what you can to help save the entire hobby. 
Visit USARK.org

Hank Gibson


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## stalknbear (Apr 7, 2009)

Great to see our tax dollars at work on another pointless regulation. They tried last year and failed after using the scare tactic of boas strangulating small children. Well at least this time they picked on amphibians, something of which is rarely sold at pet stores and most local's won't care about if they get banned.


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

stalknbear said:


> Great to see our tax dollars at work on another pointless regulation. They tried last year and failed after using the scare tactic of boas strangulating small children. Well at least this time they picked on amphibians, something of which is rarely sold at pet stores and most local's won't care about if they get banned.


I'm glad you replied. Since you live in New Mexico you can prepare a letter to send to your officials. You can inform others from N.M. that you know who keep amphibians. Those of us from out of state don't have much we can do about New Mexico regulations.


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## stalknbear (Apr 7, 2009)

Yep I'm pretty heated this morning and doing my best not to be belligerent in my email but its hard. We won our fight last year or so we thought and now they are attacking a much smaller group of pet owners who pets won't last more than a few minutes outside their tanks in the first place. 

I've already directed my friends to this post so thank you OP. I thought this was a dead issue, but I'm glad I found out about this because you are right. This is the first I've heard of it and now we can get a jump on at least voicing our opinions.


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## Allyn Loring (Sep 30, 2008)

Classic tactics pass a law where they think nobody is looking,and nobody cares, a year after its passed shed a ton of light on it ,from the real target such as the more tropic states ,then the real war begins. They need first to get a foothold somewhere so they can pounce .No offense bunch of snakes!!!


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## dustin1231 (Apr 22, 2010)

I was told that its illegal to have turtles as pets in my city. The rumor goes that one of the lady on some board who makes those stupid laws has her daughter bite by a pet turtle. Never really looked to see if it was true.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

^^ These air heads are the same ones who wanted to change the name of "Good Friday." WHO GIVES A @#%&


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## jennewt (May 23, 2008)

They have put dart frogs in Group 4 (not accessible to the general public) evidently because of the "poisonous" thing. What are the best arguments against this? Does anyone have some good references, or high-quality internet info, documenting that they are not very poisonous in captivity? Is this statement true: "Captive dart frogs are no more poisonous than other amphibians with toxic skin secretions, such as the eastern newt or the Mantellas. None of them are dangerous to humans unless ingested." (The reason I mention the eastern newt and Mantellas is that they are in less-restrictive categories in the NM groupings.)

To those in NM: please call the governor's office. Then call your state representative. And by all means submit comments (politely and rationally) to G&F by June 4th. A lot of this rule still seems to be in flux, so there is still some chance to change things. They are definitely still willing to move species from one Group to another, if the reasons are sound. Feel free to contact me - I attended a meeting last week that included folks from G&F.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Jen,

You can give them this reference which demonstrates that they lose toxicity in captivity ScienceDirect - Toxicon : Variability in alkaloid profiles in neotropical poison frogs (Dendrobatidae): Genetic versus environmental determinants


I suspect that they are lumping all of the dart frogs together because of the toxin profiles in the main wild Phyllobates. 

Ed


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## jennewt (May 23, 2008)

Thanks Ed. This is the set of listings they have for darts. Are there any other gross inaccuracies here?

Rep/Amph Frog IV Poison Dart frogs Dendrobatidae Allobates femoralis C.I.T.E.S Listed II Poisonous
Rep/Amph Frog IV Poison Dart frogs Dendrobatidae Allobates zaparo C.I.T.E.S Listed II Poisonous
Rep/Amph Frog IV Poison Dart frogs Dendrobatidae Cryptophyllobates azureiventris C.I.T.E.S Listed II Poisonous
Rep/Amph Frog IV Poison Dart frogs Dendrobatidae Dendrobates spp. C.I.T.E.S Listed II Poisonous
Rep/Amph Frog IV Poison Dart frogs Dendrobatidae Epipedobates spp. C.I.T.E.S Listed II Poisonous
Rep/Amph Frog IV Poison Dart frogs Dendrobatidae Phyllobates spp. C.I.T.E.S Listed II Poisonous


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## jennewt (May 23, 2008)

Also, are all the Mantellas CITES II?

Rep/Amph Frog III Assorted mantella frog Mantellidae Mantella spp. C.I.T.E.S Listed II


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Jen,

You can check the listings here CITES-listed species database 

Ed


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

Let me get this straight - you can import alligators, but not dart frogs. That seems a little messed up to me. 

You know, because the frogs and their little capsules of cyanide that they keep in their pockets, that they like to slip into unsuspecting victims food. And we all know how cuddly alligators are. 

This stuff just gets me mad. What threat could dart frogs possibly pose? There's no way they could become invasive.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

All Mantellas are, indeed, CITES Appendix II, last I checked. I don't know that F & G is going after this angle, but all apmhibians have the potential to carry Bd, the chytrid fungus. So there is potential herm in them. That said, the law should be written to allow for testing if Bd is their concern. If it is not, and I wouldn't plant it in their little minds, they are worried about toxins, which Ed's paper should refute.

We were just there a couple of weeks ago and there is no way in heck an escapee could make it an hour out of its enclosure - it is simply too dry there outside of the 3-week monsoon season.

If you live in NM, SPEAK UP to all your govenmentla types. If not, Hank's suggestion of supporting USArk may not be awful. At the very least, check out Amphibian Ark's position on the matter.

I did not see Ranitomeya or Oophaga listed in Jennewt's list. Is this an omission or are they not following the taxonomy? Important things to ask.
Rich


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## jennewt (May 23, 2008)

insularexotics said:


> I did not see Ranitomeya or Oophaga listed in Jennewt's list. Is this an omission or are they not following the taxonomy? Important things to ask.
> Rich


Many (perhaps most) amphibian species that are kept as pets are not on the list. Anything not on the list will be treated as Group 4 (not allowed). The words 'ranitomeya' and 'oophaga' do not appear on the list. 

NM Game&Fish are open to adding unlisted species to the list, but only accepting comments until June 4th. I will be sending a list of caudate species. If anyone wants any additional frogs added, it would be up to them to send comments. There are some "group efforts" being organized to get species categories changed and species added. However, I am unaware of any people working on frogs. If any of you are in NM and give a darn, get your rears in gear and make a list.

For example, here is an effort over on Arachnoboard to put together a list of species to have added to the list:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=180898&highlight=new+mexico


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The reason they may not have listed those genera of dendrobatids on thier list is probably due to not having caught up with the changes in nomenclature. 

Ed


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## jennewt (May 23, 2008)

Updates.

The public comment period has been extended to July 8, although this isn't stated on the DGF website at the moment.

The good news... DGF is showing a lot of flexibility in allowing the movement of species from group to group on the species list. It's quite likely that dart frogs will not end up in the banned group. Species that are CITES I will no longer automatically be in the banned group.

The bad news... they are inexplicably holding firm on the requirements for an import permit. All non-domesticated animals coming in must have a vet certificate or come from an "approved provider". So far, the approved providers are not looking like the kinds of places any of us would want to buy from. The net result is that private breeders will be at a definite disadvantage selling animals to buyers in NM. No problem for big pet chains; a horrific blow to captive breeding, both for breeders and buyers in NM.

If anyone would care to give me a current list of the genera in family Dendrobatidae, I'll try to get all of those genera on the list.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Just go to Dendrobates.org - Home


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## jennewt (May 23, 2008)

And are all of the genera relevant to the pet hobby? Or could some be omitted from a list of what should be legal and reasonable for the public to keep?


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

Is their anything mentioned about exporting c.b. amphibians from New Mexico in this proposal?


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## jennewt (May 23, 2008)

Michael Shrom said:


> Is their anything mentioned about exporting c.b. amphibians from New Mexico in this proposal?


No, there are no restrictions on exports of any non-native animals.


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## Jarhead_2016 (Jan 7, 2010)

well try to get them to legalize mysteriosus hehe  im joining usark now im really upset about this first they try to get a foothold to take my guns and now they try to get a foothold to take my frogs over my dead body 
-scotty


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