# liverwort... maybe



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Ok, so this has been all over some of my grown tanks and flats, and I wanna know what it is, lol. I was told at one point it was a liverwort... but haven't found any pics to support that. I would like to get slightly more detailed than that if possible, because liverwort is a pretty broad term!










These are not the actual "body" of the plant, but what I believe is the reproductive part of the plant... look rather fern like, but this is the largest I've had them get (for reference, the "pot" they are in is one inch square). All of them are currently in the "fern like frond" mode, so its hard to get pics of the rest of it... I'll try again tomorrow... the "body" looks rather liverwort to me, its the fern like part that gets me.

Here is the only photo I have handy of the stuff when not in reproductive mode:








It is the green stuff that looks like moss in the lower left corner of the photo.


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## treefrog (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi Corey,
I find sometime similar things in my terrariums, I believe they are ferns.
The ''liverworth'' growth habit might be the sporophytes and the ''fern type'' the gametophyte. 
Mine, usually keep the larger ''fern''like leaves and just end up as fern.
Does yours do the same? or the ''fern''like leaves dry and disapear for another season?

All the best
Math


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## thong_monster (May 6, 2006)

I have a similar looking growth on the LFS of my plant mounts (the one in the first pic). It seems to have popped outta no where and its grown quite a bit over the last month or so. Yea, I suspect its some kinda fern. I'll try to post up a pic for comparison when I can.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I have been having these growing in a few of my plant tanks/flats since march 2006 (so nearly a year now) and have repeatedly have them put up what looks to be tiny fern fronds, which get to the size in the picture at the largest, the the frond like features disappear, and leave the more typical looking "liverwort" type part behind. This is at least the second time I've seen them in this phase, and they have never grown into ferns.

Here are a couple more pics... confused a bunch of the frogs when I turned the rack lights back on :shock: 


















The only good sized one I found without the reproductive whatever... (tho this is likely because it is in a spot that gets a lot of ambient room light where the rest get timed light, dunno if that threw it off)


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## thong_monster (May 6, 2006)

Is it me or is there alot of variability on the "leaves" ? 
It seems that they are coming from the main stem but the shape of them are so different.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Looks a little bit like this stuff in my tank. It's starting to grow some vertical "sprouts" now. I wonder if it's the same thing?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I think its funny, because when I said I thought it was liverwort in your thread, I was thinking it was the same thing. The weirdest part is that I do not have ferns, so I don't know where the spores would be coming from... I know these came in on some ABG cuttings I got, and they spread like mad, but how? I was thinking the frond like things were dispersing the spores that was spreading them everywhere...

As for the variability, it seems the older the leaves, the more complex they get... my original pic was of the oldest ones in the batch, and the "younger" the things, the more less complex the leaves. The first time around when I saw these, they were not so complex, rather a bunch of half circles like in the second post, first pic, "frond" on the left... that was it.... I'm wondering if the variability in the lighting situation kept them from developing further?

I *did* have fern fronds - with spores - in this flat in the past, tho in a different spot than where the majority are... actually... none are in the section the fronds where in... but this does not explain the same things popping up in two other plant tanks at the same time... the only change was the addition of ABG clippings. Does that mean that the clippings where carrying fern spores which are germinating all this time later? That they've staid in such an underdeveloped state due to my inconsistent, until my recent addition of a timer, lighting conditions?


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## Reedeep (Jul 6, 2005)

Great pictures Corey! Your high school biology teacher didn't cover that part of biology in class? They are the Gametophyte generation of ferns. They grow from spores which are released form the sporophyte generation (the part we know as ferns). Fertilization takes place there and the new sporophyte eventually overgrows the gametophyte. That's how it goes with ferns--no seeds.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Yes, but I've not seen it done (I've had a lot more than just high school biology) especially in conditions where I literally do not have any ferns... not to mention illustrations just don't do it justice. The most confusing part has to do with the fact that I've seen the sporophyte early development already from these, yet they did not develop into ferns... I've had the gametophytes around for over a year.... I saw a liverwort photo with a very similar looking reproductive feature that looked really similar to the early sporophyte structure... when they soon went away, I just assumed they were liverworts.

So I'm guessing that my current lighting conditions, consistent with light this time, is what has geared them into action?

I had them literally growing on every surface of my 10g grow tank (which had been growing strong for a year) after introduction of cuttings that definitely where not ferns... if introduced on plant clippings, how did they manage to get all over the tank? I mean walls, green carpet, there were tons... I would think that would only occur with a fern frond actually releasing spores, not piggybacking. Too bad that tank went downhill, I'd probably have figured out what type of general fern it was by now!

Time to spoil these babies and see if its a cool fern I can use.


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## Frognut (Jan 31, 2005)

I have the same ferns growing on some corkbark. Im sure that the spores came with the bark. I did grow a bunch of Liverwort a wile back and tried it in a few vivs. It just about took over the whole tank. It looked great for about six months, then it was completly smothering itself. I will have to look for pics.


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## Frognut (Jan 31, 2005)

here is a pic (not the greatest) I will need to look for more. it will add a lot of green to a new viv. in no time


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2007)

Those are fern prothalia Corey. No doubt in my mind. The spores could have traveled on another plant, or in the soil, or in the air from a neighboring tank. WHo knows. I had those pop up in my old 10 gallon viv, they lasted for almost a whole year before finally producing fronds. I also have liverwort colony, and they look almost the same, but they are different.
Alternation of generations is really wierd in ferns. One generation doesn't look anything like the other.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Not in the soil as the flat and the plant tank these have occurred in have different soil... the flat has a custom mix, and the plant tank is just sphagnum, and both had been running around a year with none of this popping up. Not air from a neighboring tank as these tanks were both relatively air tight, and not even in the same room, and I highly doubt tranfer on my hands as I washed my hands a lot, and always washed them between racks to matter what I was doing. They only occurred after clippings were added, but I'm still surprised how the spores on the clippings have spread across the whole flat/tank. It really was like moss had spored in my tank!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Is it not possible the spores could've been in the new soil itself? Did you bake or sterilize the soil before use? I know for sure that these things pop up in new soil whenever I make mixes for potting cuttings or whatnot.

I've got similar looking stuff growing out of some tree fern panels in a 20 vert of mine. Neat.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I was trying to point out that there was no new soil, and in one tank, no soil at all! These where bare root cuttings, they came with no soil on them, and the cuttings were not rooted... so they were fresh cuttings that hadn't rooted to soil yet. The gametophytes (sp?) showed up shortly after the cuttings where added.

The flat contains a soil mixture that was baked before use. The other plant tank contained dried sphagnum moss, and nothing had been growing out of either substrate, other than the cuttings, for the 1 year + that the growing containers had been going... and the highly different conditions lead only to the cuttings having the spores. I'm just shocked that the spores are so well distributed off cuttings that were isolated to one part of the containers...


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## Reedeep (Jul 6, 2005)

One thing is for sure, they didn't spontaneously generate. 

I am not a plant specialist, but it would not surprise me if both fern and moss spores could tolerate significant heat. They are both tiny and both have species that rely primarily on making lots of spores and having them get somewhere, usually by the wind and waiting for conditions to get right. I use a movie clip in class that shows in time lapse, the spores germinating and forming the prothallus and it says something about red light initiating the growth.


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