# Mite Problems



## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

Someone contacted me about a major mite problem they were having and I typed an response to them and figured I would share it here:


Wow, sounds like you have a serious mite problem. That happened to me once and I swore to never let it happen again. Mine were so bad they had infested all my tank racks. Here's what I found works:

Get new cultures, it sounds like all your cultures are infested, so anything you try is likely going to be doomed from the gate.

Make and store the new cultures some other suitable place in your house for a while. I store mine on lunch trays with mite paper. 

I only make 6 cultures a week, and I have four trays. Number the trays, 1 should only be used for your fresh cultures, 2 should only be used for your 2nd week cultures, 3 should only be used for your cultures on their 3rd week, etc... If you make more cultures than 6, or use something else to store them on, you could extrapolate this method to work for your situation. But routine and control are important parts of eliminating mites, and successful fruit fly production, in my experience.

Next, it is very important that you do not keep cultures past 4 weeks, ever, ever. Throw them out after 4 weeks and this will greatly reduce your chances for mites in my experience.

Lastly, I only use my freshest cultures to make new cultures. There has been some report of cultures crashing due to the genetic bottleneck you could be creating by doing this, although I have not had this problem and I have been using the same cultures for a 3 years now. I would say that when I make cultures, I use one culture to make one new culture. So if I have 6 cultures, I use each one to create one new culture, not one culture to create 6 new cultures. This step could be helping me to avoid the bottleneck issue some others have experienced. This is just what I have found works successfully for me. 

As the old saying goes, if you don't think you have mites, you're not looking closely enough. But I've had zero mite problems over the past 3 years since employing this method.


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2013)

I also had mite problems. I have used baking sheets with 3/8" of water in them to set the culture cups in for cultivation. Seems to kill all the mites and I keep any extra chemicals out of the area by not using mite paper. Also helps maintain high humidity in my frog room. 

My only challenge is I have many cultures that are highly productive for at least 2 months, so the rule of throwing everything out after 4 weeks seems strange to me. What cultures are you refering to that produce so quickly that they are spent after 4 weeks? 

Appreciate very much your suggestions, but may require me to change cultures or my fundamental approach. 

Stan in Portland


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I also had mite problems. I have used baking sheets with 3/8" of water in them to set the culture cups in for cultivation. Seems to kill all the mites and I keep any extra chemicals out of the area by not using mite paper. Also helps maintain high humidity in my frog room.
> 
> My only challenge is I have many cultures that are highly productive for at least 2 months, so the rule of throwing everything out after 4 weeks seems strange to me. What cultures are you refering to that produce so quickly that they are spent after 4 weeks?
> 
> ...


Hey Stan, first I should mention that I am using melanogaster. Hydei and some other flies produce more slowly, so that would change my 4 week rule. Secondly, if you have a successful method that works for you, then I would not change it. This is just the method that works for me to avoid mites. But its good to hear others approaches too, thanks for sharing.


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## ems1016 (Apr 23, 2010)

"My only challenge is I have many cultures that are highly productive for at least 2 months. . ."

Man, how is that a "challenge" Stan?  Please, elaborate more on your FF media etc. I barely get most of my FF cultures to last only about a month. 

Water will stop mites? I thought these little guys were buyouant? 

Also want to add that Craig is one of the nicest and most successful guys in this hobby. His frogs are simply spectacular. Never too busy, though, to take the time to answer questions from fellow (lesser) froggers like me!

Ed


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2013)

I am cultivating both Melano and Hydei. The Melanos go for about 2 months. The Hydei another 2-3 weeks beyond that. I date every culture. I don't know that I am doing anything different from others. I do see lots of dead mite debris in the water. I do think they drown especially if you put a touch of detergent in the water which eliminates any filming or surface tension they might be able to walk on. That is my impression, but I have not tested that scientifically. 

I also went from using a basic culture formulae to one where I add about a tablespoon of applesauce per culture when I made the mix. It seemed to make a huge difference for me in the vigor and duration of the culture. That has just been my experience. I suspect many others are doing that as well. BTW I stopped using the brewers yeast. It was a bit expensive and hard to get and did not make any difference in yield or vigor. I do use a few grains of common baking yeast and wait 24 hours for the alcohol produced to dissapate. I also use a mold suppressant. Hope that is helpful

Stan


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

wouldn't the amount of medium matter also. I have gotten cultures that had 1 1/2 in depth also I've gotten cultures with 1/2 in depth.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I agree with Stan unless you have a mite problem,it's hard to trash producing cultures.I keep all of my cultures until they pretty much dry out.I use a pretty basic mix and they produce similar to Stans.That and the longer they last the smaller the flies get which with pumilio and thumbs are worth their weight and then some  All cultures have mites.Another method that I believe JP posted a while back is to use food grade Diatomaceous Earth on a cookie sheet and place the cultures on top of it which is good if you don't like using mite paper chemicals.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

oddlot said:


> I agree with Stan unless you have a mite problem,it's hard to trash producing cultures.I keep all of my cultures until they pretty much dry out.I use a pretty basic mix and they produce similar to Stans.That and the longer they last the smaller the flies get which with pumilio and thumbs are worth their weight and then some  All cultures have mites.Another method that I believe JP posted a while back is to use food grade Diatomaceous Earth on a cookie sheet and place the cultures on top of it which is good if you don't like using mite paper chemicals.


The diatomaceous earth suggestion is interesting. There's quite a few alternative methods I've heard about. Walt brought up a good point too, it depends on how much media you use as well, personally I use 1/3rd cup media (repashy), 1/2 cup hot water, this is what I was using going back to the days of Ed's fly meat . But, when I make my cultures, I use a lot of flies to start, I'd guess 100-200. The initial boom is thick and will actually suffocate the culture if I don't feed when they hatch. The second hatch is smaller but still significant. By the third week it's trickling down and there is not much media left and by the 4th week its pretty much done. So I suppose these are some things that I left out. But again, use whats working, this is just a method that I've been very successful with...


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## ems1016 (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm not using the hot water! That has got to be reducing mites!


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

I keep my culture for a lot longer than 4 weeks. I feed the mites and stunted melanos to my froglets. Works well for me as long as I keep the old cultures separate.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

ems1016 said:


> I'm not using the hot water! That has got to be reducing mites!


I'm not sure about that. But I use the hot water, mix it around by swirling the water, then microwave for 30 seconds...always the way I've done it. Every once in a while I forget to microwave abd I don't notice any difference


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

cbreon said:


> I'm not sure about that. But I use the hot water, mix it around by swirling the water, then microwave for 30 seconds...always the way I've done it. Every once in a while I forget to microwave abd I don't notice any difference



I think it matters for sure.I use boiling water every time and I don't have any mite flare ups.The only part that stinks about it is waiting for the media to cool down.

Oh crap,all this culture talk reminds me I have to make some tonight.....DOH!!!


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

cbreon said:


> The diatomaceous earth suggestion is interesting. There's quite a few alternative methods I've heard about. Walt brought up a good point too, it depends on how much media you use as well, personally I use 1/3rd cup media (repashy), 1/2 cup hot water, this is what I was using going back to the days of Ed's fly meat . But, when I make my cultures, I use a lot of flies to start, I'd guess 100-200. The initial boom is thick and will actually suffocate the culture if I don't feed when they hatch. The second hatch is smaller but still significant. By the third week it's trickling down and there is not much media left and by the 4th week its pretty much done. So I suppose these are some things that I left out. But again, use whats working, this is just a method that I've been very successful with...


It's like using cinnamon for ants.It......,well, for a lack of a better way to explain it,it dries them out to death. and you don't have to change it for quite some time and it's reasonable.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Using boiling water only matters if you're trying to get rid of any mites that might be hiding in your dry media mix container that might be coming along for the ride into any new culture -- it does nothing to prevent mites from entering the culture once the media sets.

My best advice:
-Keep the cultures on mite paper
-Keep the cultures far away from vivs or any other mite souces
-Wash your hands before handling the cultures
-Don't handle cultures after messing with frog stuff


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Why would you keep them far away from vivs?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

oddlot said:


> Why would you keep them far away from vivs?


Because there are mites in vivs... Although mite paper should solve that. And if you want to go no chemicals, I just put the fly cultures in water. I know mites can walk on the surface tension, but in my experience, the mites have a harder time spreading across cultures when they are on water. My hypothesis is that they have a harder time controlling where they go, but that is just a hypothesis...


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Yeah but that wouldn't be enough to banish them far away.Every culture like I said already has mites inside them.Every one.It's just a matter if they get optimal conditions to overtake them.I, like many make a lot more cultures than someone with only a couple of frogs,so it's impossible to keep them far away from vivs when you have them in most of the rooms.I've seen people with flies on the same rack or right next to vivs with no issues at all.I agree precaution is the best option though, if it's an option .For me water is too much of a pia.Either mite paper of diatomaceous earth for me,but like Craig said whatever works for you.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

oddlot said:


> Yeah but that wouldn't be enough to banish them far away.Every culture like I said already has mites inside them.Every one.It's just a matter if they get optimal conditions to overtake them.I, like many make a lot more cultures than someone with only a couple of frogs,so it's impossible to keep them far away from vivs when you have them in most of the rooms.I've seen people with flies on the same rack or right next to vivs with no issues at all.I agree precaution is the best option though, if it's an option .For me water is too much of a pia.Either mite paper of diatomaceous earth for me,but like Craig said whatever works for you.


That's true, with only 1 culture a week, it isn't too bad. As long as I don't let the cultures pile up then I don't get a mite problem, and of course, I let them pile up.... Lol


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Lou...can you advise the readers of this thread who may want to try your method which form of diatomaceous earth they should use....one is for pool filtration, and the other is a pet-friendly product...


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2013)

I agree that the amount of media used can be important. I use 1/3 cup hot water, 1/3 cup media and 1 tablespoon apple sauce. I am also using 7 coffee filters per cup. I avoid over seeding the mix. No more than 30-40 fruit flies per cannister. I do not want the first bloom to overwhelm the medium. I also think once it starts to produce, it is important to use/draw down the culture production. I do not want initial production to overwhelm/contaminate the media. I find at about 8-10 weeks the media is either eaten or drying out. I do spray clean water in the media if it is drying out too soon, but most cultures do not need the additional water. Stan


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

oddlot said:


> Yeah but that wouldn't be enough to banish them far away. Every culture like I said already has mites inside them. Every one.


This is not true. You can easily obtain mite-free fly cultures from a variety of sources (the site sponsors have them). 

By "far away" I mean somewhere where mites can't easily get into the fly cultures. If you're keeping your flies and frogs on the same rack for example, but you are storing your cultures beneath your vivs, they can easily get contaminated by mites that fall from the viv above it, even though the cultures are on top of mite paper.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

Judy S said:


> Lou...can you advise the readers of this thread who may want to try your method which form of diatomaceous earth they should use....one is for pool filtration, and the other is a pet-friendly product...


I would use the pet friendly. if some how you touched it and got some in your mouth it wouldn't harm you. I got some for my pets and it also gave the amount on how much a person could take. I forget what it does for people but for pets could be used for fleas and worms. this is from what I red on the instructions.


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## DamianR (Oct 24, 2013)

I cant say i ever had mite issues in my ff cultures but i did have invasions when it came to springtails. U just need to turn negatives into positives and now i have tons of mites to feed instead of springs =).


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

pa.walt said:


> I would use the pet friendly. if some how you touched it and got some in your mouth it wouldn't harm you. I got some for my pets and it also gave the amount on how much a person could take. I forget what it does for people but for pets could be used for fleas and worms. this is from what I red on the instructions.


This is correct,you want food grade,you don't want to use the pool grade.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I totally forgot to add a serious issue about the use of diatomaceous earth--you are supposed to use a mask when handling it--check the directions carefully...


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