# Adult tinctorius can't move front left leg



## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

I got a breeding pair of tinctorius on Tuesday of last week, the 21st. They came in healthy as far as I could tell, although the male takes a few tries to catch most food. I've been keeping them in a large rubbermaid quarantine bin and they've been EXTREMELY bold (I have to physically move them if I want to get to something they're on in the tank) and are eating with gusto. I didn't get a chance to check on them yesterday, but today I noticed the male acting funny. He's not moving his front left leg at all and it seems to get in his way so he can't move fast or far. It's held in a kind of a bent position and usually doesn't touch the ground unless he's on an incline. I don't think he's just holding it off the ground since it can go at a really awkward angle sometimes. He's eating, but I'm REALLY worried about him. I took a couple (really crappy cell-phone) videos, I'll try to upload one in a bit.

Anyone got any advice? I'll happily answer any questions.


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

Oh, and I have to work out of town for the next two days. I wish I could stay and watch over things but that's just not an option.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Could he have been injured in shipping? How was the packing?


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

I don't think it was shipping. They were both in small plastic containers with paper towel on the bottom and a couple pothos leaves, packed in a small box stuffed tight with filler and a phase 22 panel. 

I actually took a video of both frogs from right after I put them in their tank and watched it right before I posted on here. They were both moving around just fine in the original video.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Just something to check; make sure he doesn't have anything twisted around his leg, like a thin root or a hair. Hair can be difficult to see but it can do a lot of damage.


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

Too weird...I just noticed this again with my female citronella today...I posted a few months back, but don't think I got any responses. Your not alone at least. My cit will display this, every blue moon, and takes turns alternating front legs. It acts like it's arm is kind of stuck to its side or something...

All I can say about it is, my frog is still healthy, and it comes and goes momentarily.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

I can not comment on the leg issue, but this...



Shinosuke said:


> although the male takes a few tries to catch most food. .


is often times indicative of vit. A deficiency.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

This thread was memorable to me, perhaps it will help. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/26337-dislocated-leg.html


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

randommind said:


> I can not comment on the leg issue, but this...
> 
> 
> 
> is often times indicative of vit. A deficiency.


This is a breeding pair, so if that's the case wouldn't you think the female would be more deficient than the male? I asked about the seeming "short tongue syndrome" and the seller said they rotated between repashy cal+ and a vitamin D3 supplement every feeding.


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

I don't have a youtube account so I tossed these up on photobucket. Click the link and it'll take you to the video.

PLEASE excuse the shoddy, sometimes upside down footage. I was trying to get multiple angles but my camera skills are awful and I was using an old camera phone. 

This is when I first got them, male starts at the top. He's pretty well endowed in the toepad area. 
tincseating.mp4 video - Photobucket

This was tonight. 
tinclegproblem.mp4 video by - Photobucket


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## bobrez (Sep 10, 2011)

It looks like hes limping, check his foot, maybe a splinter or cut


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

Yep, that's the exact same looking thing that happens to my citronella. Its usually back to normal the next day.


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

There is something seriously wrong with this frog.

I have never caught one of these with my hands before, I think it scared me (that I was going to hurt him) more than him. I got him easy enough, though, and the bottom of both front feet look the same. I tried to take a picture but it was so blurry as to be useless, and by the time I tried to take a second pic he started wigging out again so I just put him back. 

Right before this I saw him try to eat a flour beetle. He tagged it, but it didn't stick and his tongue flopped onto the rock that the beetle was on. He had to work to pull his tongue back in his mouth, it took a good couple of seconds. I'm even more worried, now!


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

srrrio said:


> This thread was memorable to me, perhaps it will help.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/26337-dislocated-leg.html


Thank you for this. I've been searching and found a few different threads but most seemed to randomly stop. I'm not sure if frog and fish forums are the same in this respect, but on fish forums that usually meant that the fish died =\ Anyway, that was a very helpful read. This tinc's still eating, so I hope it's not to the point where he needs tube-feeding 3x a day!! Not that I wouldn't do it, but I hate to think of the stress it's gotta put on the frog.


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

With what you've described with his tongue, reminds me of a similar condition with Chameleons. Usally it is a vitamin deficiency, but can also be neurological. I would get him on supplements immediatly. But DON'T od him him on to much vit A. Just normal amount.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Adam, you might have an exotic vet in Charlotte, but, just in case, here's one that's in Raleigh. They were highly regarded by a doctor I spoke with at the State Veterinary Diagnostic and Pathology Lab

Avian and Exotic Animal Care, Raleigh, NC | Exclusively dedicated to the care of birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish and exotic mammals.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Ive had this happen with a few of my frogs, Not sure exactly what causes it, but its almost like the arm pops out of the socket, and just needs to be put back in, when ever I see the arm like whats in your video. i just simply put some gloves on, and gently try to put a finger on which ever foot, is attached to the problematic arm, in hopes that it will jump away but since my finger is on its foot, it straightens the arm, and goes back to normal. Kind of hard to explain, but it works every time, doesn't seem to stress the frogs out at all either, since in only takes about 2 seconds to fix. Currently my Giant Orange female has this problem every once in a while, and also one of my Giant regina females, about 6 years ago I had a Green Sip female that also has this issue. Never once had a male with the problem. Hope this helps. Also all of my frogs are fed Repashy calcium plus daily, female giant orange gets vit A once a week.


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

Shinosuke said:


> Right before this I saw him try to eat a flour beetle. He tagged it, but it didn't stick and his tongue flopped onto the rock that the beetle was on. He had to work to pull his tongue back in his mouth, it took a good couple of seconds. I'm even more worried, now!


Keep in mind that some frogs do not "like the taste" of rice flour beetles. It is not uncommon that a frog will try to eat the beetle and then in a sort of gagging motion put it's tongue out and either scrape it on the ground or with it's front legs to "clean it". This gaggin motion can also last for a couple seconds. This is a perfectly normal response to insects they don't "like" or picking up non-insect objects (dirt, etc)...I've even seen frogs in the wild do this.

Not sure if this is what was happening with your frog, but just thought I'd mention it. 

Kevin


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks khoff but it didn't actually make it to his mouth, so he wasn't spitting it back out. I've seen frogs do that when getting used to bean beetles, and this was very different.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

khoff said:


> Keep in mind that some frogs do not "like the taste" of rice flour beetles. It is not uncommon that a frog will try to eat the beetle and then in a sort of gagging motion put it's tongue out and either scrape it on the ground or with it's front legs to "clean it". This gaggin motion can also last for a couple seconds. This is a perfectly normal response to insects they don't "like" or picking up non-insect objects (dirt, etc)...I've even seen frogs in the wild do this.


Which is why people didn't culture the beetles to feed out the beetles but instead cultured them to feed out the larva... 

Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Adam, what happened with this little guy? Is he ok now?


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

Thank you (and jdooley) for asking after him! The next time I was able to look in on him (Friday night) he was walking fine and able to climb the walls, just like jdooley195 said about his citronella. He still really sucks at catching food, it sometimes takes him 5+ tries to catch a fly while his girly is snapping them up left and right all around him. The previous owner recommended leaving him alone to see if it's stress induced, so I've been doing just that. Unless I'm actually giving them flies I don't even go near the tank. I ordered some repashy vitA last week, I'm hoping it'll be here within the next couple days. I'm going to start using it weekly to see if that helps.

A random side note, I saw the female snap up and spit out a flour beetle, though I watched him eat one and keep it down (he did the "bean beetle belly dance" right after). If they were people I'd say that she's a pickier eater because it's so much easier for her to actually catch the food. That, or she's just high maintenance  I've only fed them flour beetles 2x, mostly because I was curious to see if they'd accept them but also because I've got A BAJILLION of them.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I have some special needs galacts and I've seen a huge difference in their ability to catch food since putting them on Vit A. Keep us posted


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

RedEyeTroyFrog said:


> Ive had this happen with a few of my frogs, Not sure exactly what causes it, but its almost like the arm pops out of the socket, and just needs to be put back in, when ever I see the arm like whats in your video. i just simply put some gloves on, and gently try to put a finger on which ever foot, is attached to the problematic arm, in hopes that it will jump away but since my finger is on its foot, it straightens the arm, and goes back to normal. Kind of hard to explain, but it works every time, doesn't seem to stress the frogs out at all either, since in only takes about 2 seconds to fix. Currently my Giant Orange female has this problem every once in a while, and also one of my Giant regina females, about 6 years ago I had a Green Sip female that also has this issue. Never once had a male with the problem. Hope this helps. Also all of my frogs are fed Repashy calcium plus daily, female giant orange gets vit A once a week.


Thank you RedEye!!

One of Bill's females was not using her right front leg. In the previous few days, she'd been climbing the walls of her tank. Today, holding that leg flat against her body and not using it. She kept toppling over on that side. 

I recalled your post here. So, I picked her up, held her right front leg by the foot, relaxed my grip a bit to let her struggle, and, POP I could feel it go back into joint. Now she's back to climbing the walls.


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## Juand15 (Jan 16, 2012)

for some reason i have noticed my citronella male doing this but with his back legs, as if he had no control what so ever of them, he lands on awkward positions, and also has horrible aim, the female is fine. I give them the repashy calcium plus and the Vitamin A one a week.

no improvement has been noticed for the past week and i really think this might be his last few....

any advice for future problems such as this? it seems like i have horrible luck with citronellas only. everyone else are doing great.


Juan


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## Eiffel70 (Aug 10, 2012)

There was an earlier mention of not OD'ing the frog on Vit A. How often is dusting with calcium & vitamins recommended for an already healthy frog and/or froglets?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Eiffel70 said:


> There was an earlier mention of not OD'ing the frog on Vit A. How often is dusting with calcium & vitamins recommended for an already healthy frog and/or froglets?


 
In general, if you follow the instructions on the lable, it is hard to overdose a supplement. The majority of the supplements are made to be used at each feeding. A rare few like the straight vitamin A are made to be used at a reduced frequency but again, this is specified on the lable. 

Theoretically it is possible to over supplement due to small prey species like fruit flies and pinhead crickets having a such a wide difference between the amount of supplement retained on thier exterior surface and what actually needs to be balanced. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

A small update - I've been dosing Vit A on a weekly basis for both of these frogs for over a month. I haven't seen the male do the leg thing again, though he does still have a hard time catching food.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It can take awhile to correct the issues from the deficiency... *if and I stress the if*, I remember correctly some oft the changes can also reduce uptake of vitamin A (one of the reasons it takes time). 

Ed


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

Shinosuke said:


> A small update - I've been dosing Vit A on a weekly basis for both of these frogs for over a month. I haven't seen the male do the leg thing again, though he does still have a hard time catching food.


Glad to hear his leg has been better. Hopefully that food catching issue will resolve itself with time.


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