# Sub termite culture



## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Really starting to boom!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

want to sell me some?


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Are you culturing them?


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## SLEDDER23 (Mar 17, 2005)

Good times. I've got the same thing going on. They are booming! Yeah for free food!!


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

joshsfrogs said:


> Are you culturing them?


Yup. Good feeders!


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

How are you culturing them? I'm going to setup traps this weekend (hopefully).


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## porkchop48 (May 16, 2006)

Are these like the same termites that can be caught ouside in wood piles?

I have though about this but I worry about them getting out. How do you keep them contained? Do they climb?


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

This seemed to be a pretty nice right up.

Culturing termites - Arachnoboards


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm not entirely sure about species but my starters were from a fellow frogger that has had this culture going since the early 90s. They are subterranean and don't require a queen to breed. I like the model noted above but was too lazy to get wood cut so instead built the same thing out of cardboard along with shredded wood pulp and brown office towels. I started with a layer of cocofiber, then cardboard, then towels, wood pulp, cardboard, towels, etc...The culture is in a plastic shoebox which is floating inside of a styrofoam shipping container (key being complete darkness). Its cool, you can see them burrowing and creating tunnels. Oh, and they dont climb, I just put them in a clear petri dish and the frogs go crazy.


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## Dragas (Sep 4, 2008)

stemcellular said:


> I like the model noted above but was too lazy to get wood cut


I like to refer to this as conservation of energy


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Another interesting culture technique, this time in Powerpoint!

http://guelph.ca/uploads/PBS_Dept/building/Termites/Termite Culture Box.pdf


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## McBobs (Apr 26, 2007)

How does one go about setting up traps to catch termites? Very interesting ideas here! I might have to make some traps to set this weekend if I can find the time. 

-Matt


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

how long did you have to wait when you started culturing them until you were able to feed them out?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Julio, I haven't fed out of this culture yet as I'm trying to build it up to full force. Instead I bought a bunch of starter cultures and fed half out - some are still actually going and I've been feeding termites out about once a week along with other feeders. 

McBobs, try this link below:
Building a Termite Trap ? gathering termites as food for poison frogs and other small amphibians and reptiles | That Reptile Blog

Key point for me: "The termite life cycle is very complex - escaped workers (those individuals that you will catch) cannot establish new colonies in your home - any termites that may infest your home will arrive courtesy of a colonizing queen, so please don’t blame me!"


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Where did you buy your starter cultures from?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Gary, sent you a PM.


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## rmelancon (Apr 5, 2004)

Somthing I have always worried about with collecting termites from around my house is the risk of getting termites that have been poisoned through either a centricon baiting system or from termidor (common termiticide) laid down by a pest control company. I know both of these systems do not instantly kill termites.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

I agree and as a result have been disinclined to harvest local feeders (esp. since I live in an urban area). That is definitely a huge benefit of building a colony off of a long established captive culture.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

that is why i setup traps usually in the woods away from the roads and human populations.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Julio said:


> that is why i setup traps usually in the woods away from the roads and human populations.


They have those in NYC? Oh yeah, Staten Island.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

haha, i set traps when i go hiking in real wooded areas when i go camping usually every other month or so.


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Either these are pretty common around me, or there are white ants. They look just like ants, and I'm not willing to test them to find out. Are you using a moat, Ray? That'd stink if you got the building infested.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Does anyone have an article stating that subterranean termites secondary reproductives DO NOT produce alates? We were talking about it the other night in the chat room. I haven't received a response yet from an entomologist.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Doug, I forgot to say this the other day, you can send a pm/email to James (username xm41907 on these forums) as he is an entomologist and likely knows the answer.


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## BBoyette (Mar 9, 2009)

I was thinking about using a few of termites to fattin up my recent pumilio pick ups.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

stemcellular, 
what kind of wood are you using for your cuture?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

untreated 3 ply plywood


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Rain_Frog said:


> Does anyone have an article stating that subterranean termites secondary reproductives DO NOT produce alates? We were talking about it the other night in the chat room. I haven't received a response yet from an entomologist.



Based on the plasticity of thier behavior, I would expect them to be able to produce winged reproductives (see Biology of Subterranean Termites in the Eastern United States) 

One of the items that in social insects limits the production of winged reproductives is the amount of drain on the resources in the colony.


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## marylanddartfrog (Jun 6, 2011)

*Re: Sub termite cultu*



stemcellular said:


> untreated 3 ply plywood






Pressure treated will kill them right?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

*Re: Sub termite cultu*



marylanddartfrog said:


> Pressure treated will kill them right?


Yes 

Ed


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

OK, so I thought this might be a good place to ask. How risky is having termites inside your house in the North East? Specifically subterranean termites from the deep South, i.e FL??


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

From what I've heard, not very... When I had bigger frogs I kept my cultures in a big Pyrex glass dish just in case. This way if they chewed out of what they were in it would just release them into something they couldn't climb out of and they would dry up pretty quick. 

I did get a couple black ones with wings but they didn't get out of the container. I think it would be tough for them to get anywhere they could really do any damage.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Oh and to reduce the risk of them populating the viv... I would always feed them in a Petri dish. The termites could never climb out so as long as your frogs aren't sloppy eaters you're in good shape haha


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

porkchop48 said:


> Are these like the same termites that can be caught ouside in wood piles?
> Yes, the subterranean termites are very common. I sure you have them in your area.
> I have though about this but I worry about them getting out. How do you keep them contained? Do they climb?


Like I said in past posts, termites cannot climb smooth surfaces. A plastic storage box will do.


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

Termites are easy to collect from the wild. Just go to your local pristine pine forest. Once there start breaking sticks. Look for aged pine sticks. These sticks will have the largest amount of termites. If ants are found, terminate your search in that stick. If termites are found tap them out into a metal bowl. Then transfer them into your collecting container. I can gather over 1, 000, 000 in an hour time this way. To me, it beats waiting on traps.


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

bobberly1 said:


> Either these are pretty common around me, or there are white ants. They look just like ants, and I'm not willing to test them to find out. Are you using a moat, Ray? That'd stink if you got the building infested.


White ants is another common name for termites. They are not ants. They're more closely relative to roaches. I'm pretty sure they are termites. Easy way to tell, shake some into a glass container. If they cannot climb the glass. You have termites. If they climb the glass, you discovered a new white ant sp.


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

bobberly1 said:


> Either these are pretty common around me, or there are white ants. They look just like ants, and I'm not willing to test them to find out. Are you using a moat, Ray? That'd stink if you got the building infested.





carola1155 said:


> Oh and to reduce the risk of them populating the viv... I would always feed them in a Petri dish. The termites could never climb out so as long as your frogs aren't sloppy eaters you're in good shape haha


Sometimes my frogs hop on the Petri dish and kick some termites onto the substrate in my terrarium. The escapees quickly borrow into substrate. No need to worry if this happen to you. The termites don't do any damage to live plants, and only add to my microfauna in my terrarium's substrate.


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

I wouldn't advise feeding frogs just termites. Termites are fattening for frogs because of the higher fat content of the termItes. Also,frogs tend to over eat when you're feeding them termites. Not to mention they don't get the exercise they would get if they were chasing down fruit flies.
What most don't know. You can gut load your termites with vitamins, calcium supplement, or/and paprika. If you gut load your termites on paprika, you can see the paprika as it pass though the digestive system of the termites.


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## SutorS (Feb 20, 2011)

white. gold. There is very little risk keeping termites in the home if done correctly.


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

SutorS said:


> white. gold. There is very little risk keeping termites in the home if done correctly.


Hahha, "if done correctly," please elaborate.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Ray, any updates on your termite culture?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The greatest risk from subterranean termites from Florida is going to be from a lack of APHIS permits to ship them across state lines and ensuring you get the right species .. Shipping termites without paperwork can be significantly big bad juju particularly if you are shipping drywood and Formosan termites into other areas..... 

The risks from culturing native subterranean termites is minimal unless you have enough escape into a humid warm area with something they can burrow into and then contact wood to feed on.... Keeping the container with the culture inside another container is going to pretty much eliminate that risk (and you can now get some decently sized glass food grade containers which would prevent them from chewing out of the container for effectively ever relatively inexpensively). 

What you want to make sure of is that you are actually getting subterranean termites as opposed to dry wood termites which can infest dry wood through a available crack or crevice and can also form colonies based on secondary reproductives (for life history see Drywood Termites). 

The other one to avoid is the Formosan subterranean termite which is also naturalized in the Southern USA.. as this species is known to penetrate thin metal sheeting (including copper, lead), plastics, foam insulation and other materials in the expansion of thier colony. They may also be a substandard food source as they produce napthalene as a protective chemical agent. 

As for collecting versus trapping... a trap consisting of a three to 4 inch wide PVC pipe oriented vertically with multiple openings available for the termites (drilled holes on the bottom end cap (to allow drainage) and the sides and stuffed with moistened (not soaked) cardboard can enable a single collection of thousands of termites in a few minutes every few weeks once established... And given the size of subterranean termite nests, you can have multiple traps in a given area). This will also help ensure that you are collecting the species you want since drywood termites are not typically found in underground sites..... (although Formosans are...). 

Some comments 

Ed


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

How can you tell the difference between the species?I'm in the north east.I have several acres of my property that is wooded and has plenty of rotting pine logs.This also butts up to acres and acres of state game preserve.I've always thought of trying to trap some,but have always been nervous of them tearing up my house.Also what kind of pathogen and other risks are there from collecting them?


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

oddlot said:


> How can yo the difference between the eircies?I'm in the north east.I have several acres of my property that is woonly and has plenty of rotting pinehugeogs.This also butts up to acres and acres of state game prdamage
> ve.I've alway ought of trying to trap some,but have always been nervous of them tearing up my house.Also what kind of pathogen and other risks are there from collecting them?


Drywood termites are the easiest sp. to identify to me. They live up to their name. You find this sp. In dry wood. The colony is small. The whole colony live in the wood above ground. They are the only sp. of termites that produce dry wood tiny ball like droppings as waste. This sp. can do great damage in you home if this escape, because it is not dependent on high humidity levels in order to survive. Still, no sp. of termites can climb smooth surfaces.

Formosan termites are a type of subterranean termite native south Asia. This was brought here accidentally in the 40's. It's now considered naturalized. This sp. have a huge appetite. This sp. can eat as much as 10 oz. of wood per day compared to our native Eastern subterranean termites which can eat as much as 3 oz. of wood per day. This sp. can eat though just about anything. The easiest way to tell these two sp.color. During the
winged stage, our native Eastern subterranean termites turn black. Looking almost like black ants with wings. The Formosan are brown.
They are over 50 sp. of termites here in the United states. I explained here, 3 of the most common. If you need further help. You can check with your local college. In my opinion,
Termites pose no greater threat than over feeders when concerning pathogens.
ACES Publications : Drywood Termite Biology, Identification, and Control : ANR-1170


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks Charles.So I assume it's safe to say that if I take a few and put them in a baby food jar and they dry up and die pretty quickly,then they would be a subterranean species.How long would it take for them to die if they were?


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

oddlot said:


> Thanks Charles.So I assume it's sate to say thaI take a few and put the'llm in aby food jar and hey dry up and die preely,then they would be a subterrean species.How long would it take for them to die if they were?


Glass jars make an excellent vessel to house all sp. of termites in. Termites can't climb, or eat through glass. If you want to try this experiment you mentioned above. Make sure you nothing but the termites in the jar with some paper product as food. If you add some wood that you collected the termites from, you take a chance of ruin your experiment. Because of the moisture content from where you collected the wood from. All Eastern subterranean termites in your experiment should be dead in a day or so.
If you use the traps mentioned by Ed. You will end up with subterranean termites in you trap. What type of subterranean termites is the question.
In my 20+ years of collecting, housing, live termites, I never had a problem with escapees, or infestations. Knock on wood!
In the control evironment of your jar, with a top on your jar for accidentally spills, any threats,or damage by these termites become non-exsistent, regardless on the sp. being house in the jar! (Minus the winged stage.)
The water moat mentioned by Ed earlier is overkill...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

charlesbrooks said:


> The water moat mentioned by Ed earlier is overkill...


Although it can make the spouse much more comfortable in having termites in the house. 

Lou, if you want when you come over, we can put together a couple of traps. If I can find my bulb auger, I can show you how to place them quickly and easily. 

Ed


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Ed said:


> Although it can make the spouse much more comfortable in having termites in the house.
> 
> Lou, if you want when you come over, we can put together a couple of traps. If I can find my bulb auger, I can show you how to place them quickly and easily.
> 
> Ed


Thanks Ed,sounds good to me!


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## amgini (Jun 10, 2011)

charlesbrooks said:


> (Minus the winged stage.)l...


What happens to a termite culture during the winged stage?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

They fly  .......


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

amgini said:


> What happens to a termite culture during the winged stage?


Termites become capable of flying.


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## amgini (Jun 10, 2011)

Perhaps I should have been more specific . Do you have to start a new culture then or would they keep going and revert back to normal eventually?



oddlot said:


> They fly  .......


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The reproductives only develop once the size of the colony hits a certain point. You could dig this up in the literature but if your harvesting from the culture, it is unlikely to get there readily. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

I used to trap and feed out termites from my yard until I learned that termicides are slow acting poisons plus I had to treat animals in my collection for rhabdias and strongyloides so I no longer take risks feeding wild food.


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

Rain_Frog said:


> I used to trap and feed out termites from my yard until I learned that termicides are slow acting poisons plus I had to treat animals in my collection for rhabdias and strongyloides so I no longer take risks feeding wild food.


This how come it's not a good idea to collect insects from your yard. It's best just collect termites from pine forests. Miles away from any residential, commercial, agricultural, or any type of land developent.
Sorry you had go though that ordeal.


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