# They will never stop



## Dr. Manhattan (Oct 28, 2016)

https://earther.gizmodo.com/should-you-really-be-keeping-a-pet-reptile-1820505148


Why is it that some people are only happy when they are either telling other people to not own or purchase something and how to live their lives. This article is one I stumbled across this morning, originally I came across a an article about a new species of Uroplatus in Madagascar. Very exciting. But at the bottom this eyesore caught my gaze. I think the most laughable part is the sentence that reads "Fijian Banded Iguanas from South America." 
But don't be fooled by their ignorance, they'll blindly believe any lie or made up statistic. Due I believe conservation is important, of course, no one in our hobby myself included wants to see forests, reefs, and wetlands wiped out or species collected to extinction in the wild. I'd say the bigger problem is reptiles and amphibians collected for consumption or so-called "medicinal" purposes. Does the Asian turtle crisis ring a bell ? Sorry to be a buzz kill on here everyone, nothing brightens up my mundane New England winters than looking at my own and fellow members frogs, herps, and absolutely stunning vivariums here on Dendro. But this article really rankled me.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Yet another instance where the "Like" button is inappropriate  Thanks for bringing this to our attention. There will always be haters, I guess. Don't let it get you down!

Mark


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## Woodswalker (Dec 26, 2014)

Did Fiji recently merge with a new continent? It sounds like the plates are moving much faster than I thought...

There is a lot of room for improvement in the average standard of care across species, including for our canine and feline friends. That's still not a sufficient reason to deny responsible people from keeping pets. Thankfully, there are reasonable people in the world who temper the rash impulses of others.


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## Ravage (Feb 5, 2016)

This reminds me of something i recently ran across. In California people are paying up to $2,000 to get dosed by the psychedelic frog: Phyllomedusa bicolor. These frogs are very difficult to come across in nature since they are Canopy Dwellers. Some numb nut from a drug show on YouTube went to Central America to have a Shaman dose him. It seemed like a pretty crappy high- kind of like getting sick and a hangover without the fun. So now there was a new drug for the elite to pursue.
These trendy people pay for "wild sourced" frog toxin that is ingested by burning an open sore on your skin and rubbing the excretion into it. The YouTube video showed how the Shaman collected it, and while not instantly fatal, the stress and trauma exerted on the poor frog could easily lead to death later on. So why is this not a BIG issue? PETA are you reading these boards?
Our hobbyists want to do the best they can and learn about biology, exotic animal husbandry and ecology as they go along, but we're bad.
Rich Malibu douchebags raping a rare species for a shitty high get a pass apparently. Maybe someone should mix in some wild crafted Phyllobates terribilis juice in one of their batches- that would probably really get them buzzed.

>>>End Rant<<<


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

One thing I strongly disagree about and find wildly ironic is the seemingly negative connotation put on the internet. It is of course ironic given this author probably wouldn't have been able to publish this or anything if it weren't for the internet allowing anyone and everyone to have some platform. 

Beyond that the internet IMHO has been the saving grace of the entire hobby. It was pretty hard for people to find information prior to the internet, and when you did it was mostly a single persons opinion, often a journalist. Since no journalist could ever be an expert in all exotic reptile keeping you got what was a general dive into the basic needs to keep the animal alive. And this was only a little better than getting advice from a pretty good pet store. The internet is the only place where you can get access instantly to many experts on any subject whom often give away advice for free and will even answer questions and be willing to disagree on matters. As is the case with this forum, and you can pool information from the entire world. Wake me up when any person at a pet show or pet store or magazine can provide that. This has improved the success of husbandry all over the world for millions of pets. And on top of that now you can instantly get access to supplies. When I was in high school it was hard to even get fruit flies, there was no Repashy supplements. The internet and the phenomena of the long tail has enabled the best care possible.


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## Roscoe09 (Dec 30, 2017)

Ravage said:


> This reminds me of something i recently ran across. In California people are paying up to $2,000 to get dosed by the psychedelic frog: Phyllomedusa bicolor. These frogs are very difficult to come across in nature since they are Canopy Dwellers. Some numb nut from a drug show on YouTube went to Central America to have a Shaman dose him. It seemed like a pretty crappy high- kind of like getting sick and a hangover without the fun. So now there was a new drug for the elite to pursue.
> These trendy people pay for "wild sourced" frog toxin that is ingested by burning an open sore on your skin and rubbing the excretion into it. The YouTube video showed how the Shaman collected it, and while not instantly fatal, the stress and trauma exerted on the poor frog could easily lead to death later on. So why is this not a BIG issue? PETA are you reading these boards?
> Our hobbyists want to do the best they can and learn about biology, exotic animal husbandry and ecology as they go along, but we're bad.
> Rich Malibu douchebags raping a rare species for a shitty high get a pass apparently. Maybe someone should mix in some wild crafted Phyllobates terribilis juice in one of their batches- that would probably really get them buzzed.
> ...


I totally understand. In school, I was talking to another student about hopefully traveling with a research team to South America. I stating that I want to see the animals and biodiversity. One of my classmates overheard and walked up and said, “Yeah, I want to go to South America, too. I heard you can get crazy high off effing frogs.” It disappoints me that some of younger society could care less about what effect their actions has on the environment, but care about about how much dopamine they have. On a side note, I’ve watched a documentary on venomous snakes and their venom can have similar effects as frog poison when flesh is burned and venom is added. Terribilis poison can’t even imagine that.


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## connorology (Oct 6, 2018)

What's most frustrating to me about this article is that the review she cites in her first paragraph actually concludes:

*"The authors do not, however, believe that keeping reptiles and amphibians presents a disproportionate burden on public health or animal welfare compared with that posed by the keeping of other companion animals."*

From the loaded language in the title and the selective pull quotes the writer uses though, you would get the exact opposite impression. And the original article is behind a paywall so nobody can check unless they shell out $30 or happen to have access to a University VPN. 

There _are_ ethical concerns with keeping exotic animals - Chain pet stores sell exotics as impulse buys. Irresponsible people don't know what they're doing. Invasive species can be extremely damaging to the environment when they become established. There's a discussion that we all need to have about how to address issues like these, but it's a problem when those issues are conveyed to the public in the way the writer chose to convey them.


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## Dr. Manhattan (Oct 28, 2016)

Many good points on here. Especially the good/bad aspects of the Internet. I think it's done far, far more good in relation to our hobby and interests. I still love my books by Walls, Bartlett, Wilkie, Coborn, etc., but man its nice to read up on just about any exotic herp habitat (cloud forest, Western Cape fynbos), get the climate data and try to replicate it to the best of our abilities. That wasn't possible 30-40 years ago. I remember pouring over Grzimeks Encyclopedia of Animals Volumes 5 and 6 at my local library. Of course they were reference books so you couldn't check them out. I remember gleaning what little info there was on some of my favorite and most wanted species. Now I can get pictures of just about any species and it's environment.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The internet has been a magnifying glass on a hot day. But disturbing things done to animals, and I'm referring to uh, ' the lower chordates' here, for this purpose, has been happening since forever. Since I can remember. With the difference being the relating to them without the same empathy as mammals or birds.

Sometimes even by the people who state they like them the best.

The thing to do is keep going, keep sharing the good stuff. 

My tolerance has developed an allergen like feature, so many strikes to the psyche that now they are fatally painful. I trust my fellows to understand and remind me to share gently.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Yeah. The cigarette butt thing was a full on strike. Followed closely by the peeling of a baby corns Actual Skin. Because the guy was trying to help it shed.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The Figi iguana remark is funny and easy to critique. But what of the person who had some morph balls and wasn't aware of their native origin of sp? 

It's easy to critique our critics but it's not as easy to change the psychology of possession entitlement and free will.

Marketing seems to surpass all other motives.


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