# background



## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

I done my background Friday night with great stuff and all the videos I watch of people doing the background just did great stuff, other than this one guy that used silicone first.

so I just did only great stuff and when I was doing the sides this morning I notice that the background in already pulling away from the glass in the center and bottom. is this going to be a problem later on? it's still attached to the sides and the top.


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## Serafim (Mar 29, 2017)

I allow my background to set for a week larger pockets of foam can take longer to cure. If the glass was clean it should be ok.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

Serafim said:


> I allow my background to set for a week larger pockets of foam can take longer to cure. If the glass was clean it should be ok.


hope so....the glass was all wiped down with rubbing alcohol before I used the great stuff.


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

That sucks. Most everyone I know will put down a layer of silicone then use great stuff. Personally I wouldn't risk it. Let it sit for 48hrs then pull on it a little if it gives any I would pull it away then silicone it back in place. It's better to fix a problem now than to set everything up then have to fix it. 

My old converted fish tanks I used just great stuff on 2 that seems to be fine, but new tanks no matter what I clean it with end up failing. Granted I only did it on 2. The experience of cutting up and siliconing the background back to the glass etc was enough to convince me to never use Gs on just glass any more.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

S2G said:


> That sucks. Most everyone I know will put down a layer of silicone then use great stuff. Personally I wouldn't risk it. Let it sit for 48hrs then pull on it a little if it gives any I would pull it away then silicone it back in place. It's better to fix a problem now than to set everything up then have to fix it.
> 
> My old converted fish tanks I used just great stuff on 2 that seems to be fine, but new tanks no matter what I clean it with end up failing. Granted I only did it on 2. The experience of cutting up and siliconing the background back to the glass etc was enough to convince me to never use Gs on just glass any more.


if I do another one I will definitely be doing silicone first. I watch a good bit of how to videos and read a good many articles on doing the background and all but 1 just did great stuff so I figured to do the same. now I wish I would have done the silicone first. it's been about 42 hours and the top is holding good so hopefully that's a good sign


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## TheForSaken (Nov 21, 2016)

Whether your background will endure the test of time or not, your guess is as good as mine. But if you're already seeing peeling this is not a good sign imho. 
I have a rather large viv 36"24"36" and I knew it was going to hold lots of cork. So in order for the great stuff to actually be able to set foot and withstand the weight, I laid a few beads of silicone onto the glass and pressed some egg crate onto it. This aloud for a much greater surface area for the great stuff to bit onto.
This has worked very well and I have not experienced any peeling.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

TheForSaken said:


> So in order for the great stuff to actually be able to set foot and withstand the weight, I laid a few beads of silicone onto the glass and pressed some egg crate onto it. This aloud for a much greater surface area for the great stuff to bit onto.


nice looking tank you got there, I will definitely be doing the egg crate/silicone next time.


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## Parotet (Jun 30, 2014)

TheForSaken said:


> Whether your background will endure the test of time or not, your guess is as good as mine. But if you're already seeing peeling this is not a good sign imho.
> 
> I have a rather large viv 36"24"36" and I knew it was going to hold lots of cork. So in order for the great stuff to actually be able to set foot and withstand the weight, I laid a few beads of silicone onto the glass and pressed some egg crate onto it. This aloud for a much greater surface area for the great stuff to bit onto.
> 
> This has worked very well and I have not experienced any peeling.




This looks like a perfect solution for my (newbie) problem. I have a tank (quite expensive, super clear glass) I still want to use once I dismantle my vivarium and I was looking for a way to fix my background without having to coat the whole background with silicone... just a question, how many beads did you do for the egg crate panel in the picture?

Jordi


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## S2G (Jul 5, 2016)

This is my opinion. If its letting go any you have problems. I would pull it loose and silicone it back. You can buy black or brown ge 1 from ace so you won't have to reorder silicone. Make absolutely sure you silicone the edges good or risk a frog getting behind your bg.

I know your putting a lot of effort into your Viv. However I want to bring this to your attention if you want froglets. Your average tinc/similar will be close to the size of your thumbnail and will get absolutely lost in a Viv this size. They're also not very bold at this size nor great hunters. Most people use grow out tanks until they get more established.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

S2G said:


> This is my opinion. If its letting go any you have problems. I would pull it loose and silicone it back. You can buy black or brown ge 1 from ace so you won't have to reorder silicone. Make absolutely sure you silicone the edges good or risk a frog getting behind your bg.


the sides and top is holding it's just the dead center and the bottom that came loose. I went almost 3 inches to the bottom of the tank with the great stuff so the substrate will be above the lowest part of the backgroundand I will put the drainage layer under the background also.

about the grow out tank what size does it need to be? I don't have any more tanks besides a 29 gallon and it a bigger tank than the one I'm working on


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## TheForSaken (Nov 21, 2016)

Parotet said:


> how many beads did you do for the egg crate panel in the picture?
> Jordi


To be honest with you, I don't remember how many beads I had laid.
4, 5 maybe 6 over a span of 36"*36" but I also used a quality construction silicone SCS1201 by GE. Tensile strength was strongest I could find and no mold inhibitors added as in with the rest of GE products


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

well the background just kept getting worse so I pulled the background out and just going to start all over. it was so bowed in the center I don't thin I could have glue it back to the glass. I did not glue the cork round to the glass the first time because some of the videos I watch just should them putting it in place and using great stuff to hold it in place. then I I had some planter pots and 2 Manzanita wood stuck in it and I think It was just too much weight for it too hold. I may have stood it up to quick and started carving on it way to quick for it to set also. I think I just got too big in a hurry and now I'm paying for it.

I' going to lay down a layer of silicone and then great stuff and I'm also silicone the cork rounds (that's broke in half) to the glass first. when laying down the silicone down of I let it dry before I do the silicone or before the silicone dries? also do I smear the silicone or just leave it like it comes out


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## nyskiffie (Mar 6, 2016)

Smear the silicone into a flat layer and let it cure for the full time indicated on the container! As soon as you lay the GS down on top of it the silicone will stop curing. You want to be 100% sure that it has full adhesion before you lay the GS down so this doesn't happen again.

I ended up doing about 1/8" of silicone then light diffuser/egg crate and let it cure for a full week before I started my background.

Just waiting for it to feel dry or to stop smelling like solvent isn't enough.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

nyskiffie said:


> Smear the silicone into a flat layer and let it cure for the full time indicated on the container! As soon as you lay the GS down on top of it the silicone will stop curing. You want to be 100% sure that it has full adhesion before you lay the GS down so this doesn't happen again.
> 
> I ended up doing about 1/8" of silicone then light diffuser/egg crate and let it cure for a full week before I started my background.
> 
> Just waiting for it to feel dry or to stop smelling like solvent isn't enough.


thanks! I have it smeared on and I will definitely be waiting to let it full cure before I do the back ground again. I have a small desk fan blowing on it to help with air moment and help it cure faster like it says here: NEHERP - Custom Vivarium Background Tutorial

wish I found that site before


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## nyskiffie (Mar 6, 2016)

Just remember that the fan will really only help with the first couple hours of the cure to get it to be tack free faster. The rest happens at such a slow rate that the fan will make very little difference. 

Not that it's bad to have it on, because it definitely is not. But regardless of the fan make sure you let it sit for the full cure time.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

nyskiffie said:


> Just remember that the fan will really only help with the first couple hours of the cure to get it to be tack free faster. The rest happens at such a slow rate that the fan will make very little difference.
> 
> Not that it's bad to have it on, because it definitely is not. But regardless of the fan make sure you let it sit for the full cure time.


definitely will be waiting until Sunday at the minimum to add the great stuff, don't want to have to redo it a 2nd time. do I need to smear some on the sides also seeing as my first one pulled away on the sides also?


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

well I'm about ready to just smear the silicone on the back glass and put the coco fiber on the back wall and be done with it. 

I tore the old great stuff down and smeared silicone on the back wall in a thin layer and let it sit for 4 days to cure (the directions said let sit for 12 hours to cure so I was way past the cure time) I sprayed the great stuff on it last night and when I woke up this morning not only has it started pulling away from the silicone up top again (just like it did when I did the great stuff straight to the glass) but it pulled the cork round that I had glued to the glass away and lifted it 2 1/2 inches off the glass. I was able to cut part of the lifted great stuff in half at the top to glue is down and that work but now 2 hours later the other side as lifted double the height it was when I went to lunch.

don't know what I'm doing wrong but it seems this great stuff does not work for me and my 18x18x18 tank.

this is just getting frustrating and about ready to just do a simple tank without custom backgrounds. tired of wasting money and time on this great stuff (which isn't so great stuff at the moment) and silicone just to rip it out after it cures.

going to let it sit until tomorrow and if the one side pulls away more I'm going to rip it all of. before it was just pulled away enough I could fill it with very little silicone but now it would take a good bit to fill the gap or a bunch of scrap pieces of great stuff glues in


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## nyskiffie (Mar 6, 2016)

Can you post some pics of what is going on? I'm surprised you're having so much trouble. My background is really, really heavy and I haven't had any issues with it pulling away. I did lay down egg crate into the silicone though. You can check out my build thread in the parts and construction section if you want.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

nyskiffie said:


> Can you post some pics of what is going on? I'm surprised you're having so much trouble. My background is really, really heavy and I haven't had any issues with it pulling away. I did lay down egg crate into the silicone though. You can check out my build thread in the parts and construction section if you want.


I've already pulled the background out, it was pulling away at the bottom also. I then went and bought some cork flats and glues that to the silicone and then glued some coco fiber to what was left showing and called it a night. hopefully this will stick.


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## klawfran3 (Jun 26, 2017)

Maybe you could be putting too much GS in the initial spray and it expanded too much, pulling your cork from the background. Pictures would definitely help.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

klawfran3 said:


> Maybe you could be putting too much GS in the initial spray and it expanded too much, pulling your cork from the background. Pictures would definitely help.



yea I felt like I was putting the same amount of foam down as the first time but once it foamed up it was a lot thicker than the first time. I can't take any pictures since I've tore the foam out and threw it in the garbage. I just went out Saturday and bought a medium sized cork flat and broke it in pieces and glued it to the back and then put silicone on the rest and put coco fiber down. I'm please with the results for my first vivarium it's not perfect but it will work out. plus this gives the frogs more room since the great foam is not taking up some of the space.


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Not sure if this is "too little, too late" or not, but I used Aquascape Waterfall Foam (black; link below) on glass alone (new tank) and it has worked well. Hope I didn't just jinx myself, but the wood I've foamed into place is not budging. I did happen to let it cure for a few days before moving on to the silicone + bedding step and standing it up a day later, so I'm not sure if that made a difference. Also used this foam in connecting pieces of cork tubing and, so far, so good. My main attraction to it was that it was black (well, dark gray, really, when cured) so it would be easier to hide if I couldn't get silicone on all of it; I assume the actual ingredients are the same with regard to the expanding foam itself.

https://www.amazon.com/Aquascape-21...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NWBD7ZQ8VZS7FWR58VE8


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## Chlorophile (Jun 29, 2017)

Oh - and how old are your containers of foam and silicone? I found out the hard way that silicone that is too old will never cure...the carrier (the one that smells like vinegar, I believe) dissipates over time, even when stored unopened, and if the tube is something like a year or more over the use-by date than it may never work. Don't know about length of time for the foam but it, too, may lose ability to expand and/or cure properly. People like me tend to think these things should last a very long time if unopened but they too have a shelf life.


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## soulembrace (Aug 28, 2017)

Chlorophile said:


> Oh - and how old are your containers of foam and silicone? I found out the hard way that silicone that is too old will never cure...the carrier (the one that smells like vinegar, I believe) dissipates over time, even when stored unopened, and if the tube is something like a year or more over the use-by date than it may never work. Don't know about length of time for the foam but it, too, may lose ability to expand and/or cure properly. People like me tend to think these things should last a very long time if unopened but they too have a shelf life.



I bought all the stuff the first time a week before and after that pulled away I bought another thing of silicone and used it the day after I bought it and then bought the foam the day before I used it so it was all bought and used within a week. when I redid the whole background I put the silicone on the glass on Monday and let it cure till Friday and put the foam on Friday night and let it set up and never moved it and it started pulling lose.


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## chin_monster (Mar 12, 2006)

one of the "tricks" to expanding foam is to build in thin layers and let each cure to help prevent a number of issues -too thick of a layer of foam can pull off the glass if it over expands and the contracts as it cures (it can also break thin glass if it doesn't release as it contracts too), too thick of a layer and the middle sometimes doesn't cure.

some versions of expanding foam are worse than others -the black landscaping foams do not expand nearly as much as the regular, more common yellow types.


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