# Marbled Cristobal



## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

Picked up a pair of Cristobals at Frogday - totally worth the 6 hour commute. Thought I'd share the female who displays a rather unique marbled pattern. 

Sorry in advance for the crappy photo, it was taken by camera phone. Will post more pics once I can get my hands on my friends digital SLR.

enjoy


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ooooooo. What a neat looking frog!


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thats awesome


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## Willowalker (Sep 8, 2009)

Holy crap that frog is gorgeous!


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Yeah, I saw that, there. Pretty Impressive. I'm glad you posted a pic because I was thinking about that frog this morning and figured I wouldn't see it again. It would be hard to describe it without a pic

If I remember right, M. told me that he has only seen one other like it.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Leo
Can you share the source of that frog with us?

I have to say....I now have frog envy! 

Amazing....I'll need to be on your list for offspring....Put me down 

Is it a CB? and do you have any sibling pics?

Shawn


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## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

Yeah this little girl is something else. Thanks for checking her out guys. 



Boondoggle said:


> Yeah, I saw that, there. Pretty Impressive. I'm glad you posted a pic because I was thinking about that frog this morning and figured I wouldn't see it again. It would be hard to describe it without a pic
> 
> If I remember right, M. told me that he has only seen one other like it.


He had both on his table early in the morning. I picked her up as soon as I saw her - so I'm guessing she is the "one other" that Marcus was talking about. Do you know if he ended up selling the one you saw?





sports_doc said:


> Leo
> Can you share the source of that frog with us?
> 
> I have to say....I now have frog envy!
> ...


Hey Shawn,

She is wc/fr. Came in with the SNDF March imports this year. Marcus had two of them available at frogday, both females. I've never seen anything like it, so I picked her up immediately. Definitely, will keep you all updated on any breeding progress with her. 

Ahhh...must say it feels nice to finally be on the other side of the frog envy fence


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## Geckoguy (Dec 10, 2008)

WOW!!! and WOW!!! That is all....


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

poimandres said:


> He had both on his table early in the morning. I picked her up as soon as I saw her - so I'm guessing she is the "one other" that Marcus was talking about. Do you know if he ended up selling the one you saw?


He told me both were female, but I hadn't realized he had sold the other the same day. The second one was still there after noon, but Marcus cleaned up his table during the auction at the end, so I didn't see if he took her home with him. I'm sure you could ask him. He will definitely remember the frog and I'm sure would understand if the owners wanted to keep in touch.

BTW, congrats.


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

That frogs just crazy...any site data for it?


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

holy crap!!! dude you got a kick ass frog!!! now i am really mad i didn't get to go.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Hopefully Marcus can get the locale or close, on this special one.....

wow.

that's all I have.....


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

That is wicked. I'd be very interested to know if that is a mutation within the existing population or representative of another population. While I assume it is the former I really wish it was the latter. Nice frog.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

honestly i think its a just a freak of nature, i don't think there is another population like that, otherwise Marcus would have brough more in i am sure.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

My assumption as well. Good thing they breed like rabbits, I'm looking forward to seeing offspring in a few months.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

yeah i know, i got another clutch of 6 today, the other clutch is only a few days old, they just keep going like crazy. what the hell are planning to do with all these tads?


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

yeah, my keep going as well, and they are still fat as hell. really like them!


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Leo, i hope your babies turn out to be just like the female


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## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

I just contacted Marcus to see if he can gather any further locale info on this one. He is going back to the field in a few weeks, lets see what he comes back with.

I have her with a calling male from the same shipment, hopefully we will see some offspring in the not so far future. I don't know what we can gather from just two specimens, but it seems unlikely that two nearly identical females would result as genetic mutations and show up in the same importation. I guess only time will tell.



Julio said:


> Leo, i hope your babies turn out to be just like the female


You and me both!


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## mokeys0 (Nov 27, 2007)

OMG! i wasn't expecting that. she is gorgeous.


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## coxdre123 (Aug 3, 2009)

I saw that frog on Marcu's table as well. I was tempted to buy it, had the money ready and everything. Oh well my loss is your gain! Enjoy it! Beautiful frog!!


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Why is everyone questioning the site data on this frog?? Marcus said it's a Crisotbal and that's what it is. Anyone who's seen Cristobals knows that they are highly varible and knowing how much of a stickler Marcus is about locality with the frogs he imports I'm surpised anyone is questioning it. If you're wanting to know specific site date ON Cristobal island... good luck, you don't really get that with any of the panamanian frogs. 

Congrats on the frog... I saw it in person and was sad that there wasn't a male to go with but I doubt it would breed true anyways, but one can hope...


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## keith campbell (Aug 11, 2007)

WOW!! great looking frog! More salt in the wound....Really wishing that I just dealt with the holiday traffic.

Enjoy
Keith


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## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

sbreland said:


> Why is everyone questioning the site data on this frog?? Marcus said it's a Crisotbal and that's what it is. Anyone who's seen Cristobals knows that they are highly varible and knowing how much of a stickler Marcus is about locality with the frogs he imports I'm surpised anyone is questioning it. If you're wanting to know specific site date ON Cristobal island... good luck, you don't really get that with any of the panamanian frogs.
> 
> Congrats on the frog... I saw it in person and was sad that there wasn't a male to go with but I doubt it would breed true anyways, but one can hope...


My take is that people are just curious as to whether this frog represents a unique sub-population or is just a one-off of the (as you point out) highly variable Cristobal pumilios. After speaking with Marcus it appears that she is to be labeled as strictly Cristobal, there is no indication that the marbled pattern/coloration represents a sub-group or even breeds true. 

As a side note, I could imagine that any "marbled" Cristobal would be much more difficult to find in the wild than the more solid colored ones, particularly when amongst the leaf litter . I have trouble finding her in my viv when she is foraging on the floor as her coloration makes her blend into the leaf litter very well - some serious camouflage. Her colors only really pop when she is against a solid color (i.e. a green leaf) and under direct light. 



keith campbell said:


> WOW!! great looking frog! More salt in the wound....Really wishing that I just dealt with the holiday traffic.
> 
> Enjoy
> Keith


Thanks Keith! I was hoping to get a chance to meet you in person, but I understand about the drive. I ended up being in a car for 12 hours over a 24 hour period...not fun.


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## 013 (Aug 9, 2006)

Amazing frog.


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## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

Here are a few more pics.

I'm having issues getting decent shots of her. She is a bit on the skittish side, the male is much more composed. I really want to get a good ventral shot of the female, her neck and belly is a deep really beautiful orange, but she is not cooperating with me at the moment.










Not a great shot but shows how she blends into the leaf litter:









The next two shots are of the male:


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

Very nice colors on both of them. I will have to add those to my, future list.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

The male has some sort of marbling on him too, hope that pattern turns ot tobe genetic


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Im not even sure you will be able to get some accurate site data on them after the fact but good luck. If this is just a morph or freak of nature why would you breed them for that pattern? Having it would be nice but what will you breed it with? Is the male from within the same locale? Is it guarenteed accuratlely identified? Its a nice looking frog but I see nothing but selective breeding down the road with this pattern. Unless you find that it is from another region or locale inwhich it is common morph or pattern why breed it for the pattern? Good luck with it.
Michael


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

poimandres said:


> Here are a few more pics.
> 
> I'm having issues getting decent shots of her. She is a bit on the skittish side, the male is much more composed. I really want to get a good ventral shot of the female, her neck and belly is a deep really beautiful orange, but she is not cooperating with me at the moment.
> 
> ...


interesting, really seems like a pigmentation issue. very cool.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

pigmentation issues are usually attributed to incubation temps which in terms will also prove to be genetic.


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## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

Julio said:


> The male has some sort of marbling on him too, hope that pattern turns ot tobe genetic


Hmm...I see that on his underside and on his legs with the close up shot. You can't really tell when looking at him in person. I think this type of leg/vent marbling is pretty common amongst some Cristobals but I may stand corrected. 



poison beauties said:


> Im not even sure you will be able to get some accurate site data on them after the fact but good luck. If this is just a morph or freak of nature why would you breed them for that pattern? Having it would be nice but what will you breed it with? Is the male from within the same locale? Is it guarenteed accuratlely identified? Its a nice looking frog but I see nothing but selective breeding down the road with this pattern. Unless you find that it is from another region or locale inwhich it is common morph or pattern why breed it for the pattern? Good luck with it.
> Michael


According to Marcus (whose opinion and expertise I significantly trust), this frog is 100% Cristobal Island, whether it came from the north, north-east, east, west, south, etc. of the island we will never know. The male is also 100% Cristobal. Both are from the same import. As I am sure you know, Cristobal's are highly variable in their coloration and pattern, she is just an example of what some of the variation can produce. It is interesting that the in the same importation another very similar colored female appeared, suggesting that this form of marbling may be more common than we think and perhaps occur in higher frequency in the particular population represented by the 2010 SNDF Imports. 

I'm not interested in selective breeding for a particular coloration or trait, she is with the pictured male who is from the same locale and despite the hint of ventral marbling (which I did not notice till Julio pointed it out minutes ago) can be considered to be much more in-line with the Cristobals that we currently find in the hobby. I am just interested in seeing how much-if any-of the marbling is genetic. Not looking to produce a captive Marbled Pumilio population akin to the Sky Blue Tincs in the hobby, simply would like to add more variation to the mix. In my hands she and her offspring will only breed with other animals from the same import regardless of their degree of marbling.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

I understand but are you sure the hole imported group are from the same region or locale? 
And by the way people do mess up with id's. For all we know it could be another morph, species or even a hybrid. After all noone has ever seen these.
Why is there no other site info availible on these frogs?
Why are they not in quarentine?


Michael


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## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

poison beauties said:


> I understand but are you sure the hole imported group are from the same region or locale?
> And by the way people do mess up with id's. For all we know it could be another morph, species or even a hybrid.
> 
> Michael


Yes! As sure as any of us can be given an imported frog. Marcus does not mess around when it comes to this kind of stuff. Furthermore, as I mentioned she is NOT the only one in the import that looks like this. 

I don't understand what you are trying to get at. Care to clarify? Why can't you just accept the fact that this is an example of what a highly variable population can produce?


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Im not looking for a hardcore debate.
PM sent...
Michael


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Just to clarify an earlier post I made. All the pums (in question) on Marcus' table were represented as from the same locale/importation. Also, they all looked very similar to me as far as belly-speckling and color palette. The two females that Marcus pointed out to me where pointed out because they were just the most extreme examples in the batch.

And for the record, they were beautiful.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

It's apparent by your questions and by your ideas that you are not familiar with Marcus Breece or SNDF and the extent they have gone to to make sure that all the frogs that come from Panama have specific site data. I can guarantee you, without a doubt, that if Marcus says this is a Crisotbal, then that's what it is. If he said they all came in the same shipment, they did. Honestly your insinuations that Marcus would misidentify any of the frogs that he imports or that he may have hybridized them is very concerning. Going by your join date I can guess that you are either new to the hobby or just new to the board, but Marcus is one of the most respected vendors in the hobby and has single handedly changed the way frogs are being imported from Panama... yes, I mean that. He has made significant efforts to guarantee site data, improve shipping and receiving conditions as well as educate the "farmers" on how to handle these frogs. The beautiful Escudos that you see on the board??? Yeah, he's responsible for those. I understand you questioning is due to not knowing the person that we're talking about but what more proof do you want than pretty much the entire board vouching for SNDF and Marcus saying that his word is good??


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## MattySF (May 25, 2005)

That is sick. I missed seeing those.
Very nice.


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## poimandres (Mar 28, 2009)

poison beauties said:


> Im not looking for a hardcore debate.
> PM sent...
> Michael


Michael, 

Thanks for the pm and info within, it clarified from where you were coming from - literally. Hopefully this will open up some more dialogue regarding this frog. 

I am always open for debate, but I appreciate you not flooding this thread with it. We will chat some more about this I am sure.

I understand that there are some concerns popping up in the frog community regarding precise location for these different looking Cristobals and will do my best to keep them responsibly and separate from all pre-existing lines of Cristobal until more information can be gathered.

Lets keep this thread about what it simply is, a rather unique and IMO awesome looking frog.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

I was only looking to help, That frog is very nice and I personally wouldn't give it up if I were you. It may not be one of a kind but its the only one around here and you hopefully happen to have a compatible pair sitting there in that viv. Get them tested.
Michael


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Hey Leo,

Any update on froglets? I've got a good number nearing sexable age!


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

My god. THose are some incredible looking frogs. I am totally envious of them.


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

dont know how I missed this one. awsome male as well.


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

I'd say a fitting name would be granite cristobals.


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## GeorgiaB (Apr 23, 2009)

WOW  Those are some of the most striking frogs ive seen lately. Good find  It will be interesting to see what the offspring look like. 

Georgia


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## MD_Frogger (Sep 9, 2008)

Are there any updates on these guys?


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Dunno, but that female looked wicked...


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