# So…. Yeah I’m looking for some froggies!



## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Ok, here’s the whole rundown. I am trying to build a vivarium. I tried building a TERRARIUM. But it got infested with GNATS. so now I got into the hobby of this thing. I can’t just give up! So I’m building a VIVARIUM. now, I need some frogs. Its going to be a BIOACTIVE vivarium. So I want some tree frogs. i want some that you can handle occasionally and they cannot make a lot of noise. I’ve spent days researching and nothin’. So I turned to dendroboard. Any suggestions?


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

If you want animals that you can handle, frogs are not for you.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Terrarium keeper said:


> i want some that you can handle occasionally


No amphibians are meant for being handled. They are too sensitive for that.


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Oh because I read google and it says some species can tolerate that


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

What animals do you recommend


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

A gerbil maybe?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Chris S said:


> A gerbil maybe?


Hamster? Ferret? Cat? Dog?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Sometimes it takes a long time -- years -- to figure out how to fill that little void inside that has an "insert pet here" sign next to it. I've been there. Still am, often.

Going to an animal shelter and petting some dogs and cats might be a good place to start. Hang around pet stores (not those chain stores -- I mean decent pet stores) and just talk to people and look around; leave your money at home. Go to a herp expo (again, with no money) and just see what's up. Go to the zoo and be with the animals. Go to the library and read some books (around the 590's in the Dewey decimals). Be careful on YouTube, which is designed to mess with your brain, not convey useful information.

Think about all the cons to each animal; gnats are nothing compared to a reptile with MBD, or a cat with chronic kidney stones, or a frog with a mystery illness that $500 at the vet hasn't quite helped. Consider lifespan: a frog is going to be a ~15 year project (ideally). Consider budget over the long haul -- it adds up.

It is apparent that you want a list of animals to choose from, and the answer I offered isn't that, annoyingly. Sometimes a speed bump or six on the road to animal ownership isn't a bad thing.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

What is the difference between a terrarium and a vivarium? And how would that difference keep the vivarium from also getting gnats? 

Frogs make noise and are more of a look but don't touch kind of pet. Invertebrates or reptiles would probably be more up your alley. I know that isn't what you wanted to hear, I was in the same boat when I first visited the board.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

A vivarium is a terrarium with critters in it.


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## Waking in nature (Nov 28, 2021)

Terrarium keeper said:


> Ok, here’s the whole rundown. I am trying to build a vivarium. I tried building a TERRARIUM. But it got infested with GNATS. so now I got into the hobby of this thing. I can’t just give up! So I’m building a VIVARIUM. now, I need some frogs. Its going to be a BIOACTIVE vivarium. So I want some tree frogs. i want some that you can handle occasionally and they cannot make a lot of noise. I’ve spent days researching and nothing’. So I turned to dendroboard. Any suggestions?


You should not handle frogs unless you have very clean gloves but even then you can still hurt the frogs.But in terms of tolerance for tree frogs you should probably get a milk frog or whites tree frog.


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Do milk frogs make a lot of noise at night? Cause I kinda need to sleep and the vivarium is going to be in my room.


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## Waking in nature (Nov 28, 2021)

Terrarium keeper said:


> Do milk frogs make a lot of noise at night? Cause I kinda need to sleep and the vivarium is going to be in my room.


Not usually unless there trying to breed but even then there quiet.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Waking in nature said:


> Not usually unless there trying to breed but even then there quiet.


A "quiet" noise during the middle of the night may not feel so quiet...


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

Only handle frogs to move them if needed and wearing gloves is the safest way to do it, second best is wetting hands with frog safe water first, of course using a solo cup is always a good method for any frog except treefrogs which sometimes are difficult to remove, Overall frogs aren't handling pets. Also understand that tree frogs are nocturnal and don't do much with the lights on. If you have insomnia it works out though. While I love frogs I will say if you want that kind of physical interaction with a pet animals like dogs, cats, and rodents are best. The best kind of animal to pet is an animal that wants to be petted and held not one that can simply tolerate it.


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

ok. I now understand that you cannot handle these types of animals. The problem is, frogs are nocturnal, and I do not want them to call all night.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Terrarium keeper said:


> ok. I now understand that you cannot handle these types of animals. The problem is, frogs are nocturnal, and I do not want them to call all night.


Dart frogs are diurnal, and are predominantly quiet after their lights go out.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Terrarium keeper said:


> ok. I now understand that you cannot handle these types of animals. The problem is, frogs are nocturnal, and I do not want them to call all night.


There are lots of diurnal frogs.


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

i do not want dart frogs though because there are poisonous. Are there any other specific species that are diurnal and do not make noise at night?


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

Terrarium keeper said:


> i do not want dart frogs though because there are poisonous. Are there any other specific species that are diurnal and do not make noise at night?


Dendrobatids are not poisonous in captivity. In the wild they sequester their toxin from the invertebrates that they eat. In captivity we feed them a staple diet of drosophila, which makes them completely harmless. Provided you acquire captive bred animals, they will have no medically significant toxins. 
You still shouldn’t eat them though…


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Looking at all of your threads it appears that you want a frog that likes to be handled, eats freeze dried mealworms or earth worms, won't eat invertebrate pets that you want to keep with it, doesn't have poison in its name, is only active during the day and doesn't make noise. That species doesn't exist.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Terrarium keeper said:


> i do not want dart frogs though because there are poisonous. Are there any other specific species that are diurnal and do not make noise at night?


Even diurnal species will often call during the night. You may find reptiles might be more up your alley.


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## Waking in nature (Nov 28, 2021)

Chris S said:


> Even diurnal species will often call during the night. You may find reptiles might be more up your alley.


Even some reptiles make noise I hear my gecko stomping at night.


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## fredk (Oct 25, 2021)

Chris S said:


> Even diurnal species will often call during the night. You may find reptiles might be more up your alley.


Not true. Dendrobates ceramicus. Very hardy, makes no noise, no feeding required, can be handled as much as you like.


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

fredk said:


> Not true. Dendrobates ceramicus. Very hardy, makes no noise, no feeding required, can be handled as much as you like.
> 
> View attachment 303594


This made my day


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Eurydactylodes said:


> Dendrobatids are not poisonous in captivity. In the wild they sequester their toxin from the invertebrates that they eat. In captivity we feed them a staple diet of drosophila, which makes them completely harmless. Provided you acquire captive bred animals, they will have no medically significant toxins.
> You still shouldn’t eat them though…
> 
> 
> > Sounds great! I just have a couple of questions. Can you order them as tadpoles online? Cause I have this leftover empty Aquarium that is just sitting in my room and I want to put it to use. Secondly, are dart frogs loud at night?


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Eurydactylodes said:


> Dendrobatids are not poisonous in captivity. In the wild they sequester their toxin from the invertebrates that they eat. In captivity we feed them a staple diet of drosophila, which makes them completely harmless. Provided you acquire captive bred animals, they will have no medically significant toxins.
> You still shouldn’t eat them though…


Sounds great! I have a couple of questions though. Can you order dart frogs online as tadpoles? Cause I have this empty tank In my room and I was hoping to put it to use. Secondly, do dart frogs make a lot of noise at night?


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

fredk said:


> Not true. Dendrobates ceramicus. Very hardy, makes no noise, no feeding required, can be handled as much as you like.
> 
> View attachment 303594


AHAHAHHAH! I just got that.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Terrarium keeper said:


> Sounds great! I have a couple of questions though. Can you order dart frogs online as tadpoles? Cause I have this empty tank In my room and I was hoping to put it to use. Secondly, do dart frogs make a lot of noise at night?


Here's a thread that discusses starting with tadpoles
First darts, raise from tadpoles?


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

Terrarium keeper said:


> Sounds great! I have a couple of questions though. Can you order dart frogs online as tadpoles? Cause I have this empty tank In my room and I was hoping to put it to use. Secondly, do dart frogs make a lot of noise at night?


Dendrobatids are fragile and temperamental as froglets. For beginners, I highly recommend starting with well-started frogs. 
I do not think starting with tadpoles is a good option for anybody, for that matter. You have a higher risk of failure to thrive, and you are not getting a guaranteed healthy frog. Any worthy business will sell subadults, which are much more likely to do well.


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Terrarium keeper said:


> Sounds great! I have a couple of questions though. Can you order dart frogs online as tadpoles? Cause I have this empty tank In my room and I was hoping to put it to use. Secondly, do dart frogs make a lot of noise at night?


Yes, some people sell tadples. They are fragile and most species are cannibalistic. Newly morphed froglets will need a constant food source of small food, sometimes smaller than the fruit flies that are the staple for the adults. They will spend 100% of their time hiding from you because their instincts tell them that they haven't lived long enough to sequester enough toxins to be protected from predation. Adult males will call when the lights are on.


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

So, should I get juvenile frogs?


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Terrarium keeper said:


> So, should I get juvenile frogs?


I would recommend getting adult frogs, in almost all scenarios.


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Ok


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

I would suggest ordering a fruit fly culturing kit and seeing how well you like culturing fruit flies because you'll be making alot of fruit fly cultures if you get dart frogs.


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

FRUIT FLIES!?!?!? NOPE! NOPAROONIE! NOPE ON A ROPE!!!!!


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

IM DEFINITELY NOT GETTING DART FROGS!!!!


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

IM JUST GONNA GET ADULT MILK FROGS


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Do milk frogs make a lot of noise at night?


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Yes, and they sound like drowning horses.


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## fredk (Oct 25, 2021)

Chris S said:


> Yes, and they sound like drowning horses.


 I thought you were kidding.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

fredk said:


> I thought you were kidding.


No sir!


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## Okapi (Oct 12, 2007)

Did I just travel back in time 4 days?


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

Trust me fruit fly's are a blessing hands down the best feeder, crickets stink in more ways than one.
Also yeah I can't stand the sound milk frogs make... so unpleasant


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Okapi said:


> Did I just travel back in time 4 days?


Yes


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

It looks like frogs are not the animal for you. If you are dead-set on herpetofauna, I recommend researching the many handleable reptiles that are available in the hobby.
If you want to keep frogs, you have to deal with live feeders and accept that they are not handleable animals. It seems to me that you are not prepared to deal with either of those things at the moment. 
Keep in mind that this is a dendrobatid forum, and most of us have experience in dendrobatids, but not necessarily in reptiles-or even other frogs for that matter. 
We all persue the hobby of herpetoculture differently. I keep mostly Gonatodes and Sphaerodactylus sp. geckos, but I really only talk about dendrobatids on this forum-because it is not a micro gecko forum.
We all have expertise in something, but on a dendrobatid forum, I would really only rely on advice concerning dendrobatids.
We all find the technicalities of herpetoculture worth while, but it is not for everybody. This is certainly not a hobby to take short cuts in. If you are serious about keeping these incredible animals, go all in and accept all of their requirements. Otherwise, it is not worth it for the animals, or for yourself.


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## DanConnor (Apr 12, 2009)

I thought I never met a frog call I didn't like, but that milk frog is... interesting


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

DanConnor said:


> I thought I never met a frog call I didn't like, but that milk frog is... interesting


I think the sound like a dying goose.


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## TeddytheFinger (May 8, 2019)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Trust me fruit fly's are a blessing hands down the best feeder, crickets stink in more ways than one.
> Also yeah I can't stand the sound milk frogs make... so unpleasant


That's me after walking up the stairs


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

O.M.G


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## Terrarium keeper (Jun 13, 2021)

Eurydactylodes said:


> It looks like frogs are not the animal for you. If you are dead-set on herpetofauna, I recommend researching the many handleable reptiles that are available in the hobby.
> If you want to keep frogs, you have to deal with live feeders and accept that they are not handleable animals. It seems to me that you are not prepared to deal with either of those things at the moment.
> Keep in mind that this is a dendrobatid forum, and most of us have experience in dendrobatids, but not necessarily in reptiles-or even other frogs for that matter.
> We all persue the hobby of herpetoculture differently. I keep mostly Gonatodes and Sphaerodactylus sp. geckos, but I really only talk about dendrobatids on this forum-because it is not a micro gecko forum.
> ...


Ok well thank you all for the help. I will try to research gecko vivariums, but other than that, have a good day.


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## Dr. Manhattan (Oct 28, 2016)

Terrarium keeper said:


> Ok well thank you all for the help. I will try to research gecko vivariums, but other than that, have a good day.


OP,

Read up on crested gecko's. They kinda sorta meet some of the parameters you mentioned. I'd still keep the handling to a minimum though.


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