# SLS? **pictures**



## hopalong (Sep 19, 2005)

So, I have three leuc tads that I got from a reputable breeder. One of them has his back legs and I see him using them, no worries. Another one hasn't developed yet, no biggie. The third is worrisome. I don't think he's using them, at least not like the first one. They also seem smaller. Here are pictures, tell me what you think.

The healthy one:









The one I'm worried about:










And a picture that made me smile:










Thanks in advance!


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

SLS is a front leg issue so it is too soon for guesses. Tads will develop at different rates . I don't see any problems yet.

Rich


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

i agree, those guys are a little young to tell anything yet. also, why would a reputable breeder sell somebody tads?


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## hopalong (Sep 19, 2005)

I though I'd read articles about SLS in the rear legs, not just the front...

He sold them to me because he's my friend and I wanted to watch tads morph. All my frogs are too young to breed and I wanted the pleasure of watching them grow.

So, it sounds like I'll just wait and see. Thanks!


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

yep, pretty much all you can do is wait...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

hopalong said:


> I though I'd read articles about SLS in the rear legs, not just the front...
> 
> He sold them to me because he's my friend and I wanted to watch tads morph. All my frogs are too young to breed and I wanted the pleasure of watching them grow.
> 
> So, it sounds like I'll just wait and see. Thanks!


The original descriptions do list deformations in the hind limbs as being possible. 

Ed


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## evolvstll (Feb 17, 2007)

As Ed says back leg SLS has been described even though I have not seen it in any of my froglets. Developing at different rates is usual. In my experience it is pretty evident of SLS when the front legs pop. 
This is why selling or buying tads is usually not encouraged. In doing many searches about SLS in the past, there are many causes that could be possible. Often it can take a frogger a while to figure out the correct conditions to produce froglets without sls. A few of the biggest factors I have seen is: parents being overbred, clutches begin showing up w/ sls when none had previously. Indicates time to give the poor girl a break. Water temperature is the second biggest factor, followed by water quality. Then food. Again searching sls shows many causes.
If you pm me your email I can shoot you over some pictures of luecs in various stages and you can compare and get an idea.

Jason


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Ed said:


> hopalong said:
> 
> 
> > I though I'd read articles about SLS in the rear legs, not just the front...
> ...



Ed,
Were the early descriptions calling those deformations SLS ? Kind of like the generic term that has been overused to lump limb disorders?

Rich


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

evolvstll said:


> This is why selling or buying tads is usually not encouraged.
> 
> Jason



Gotta say that I find nothing at all wrong with getting tads. Especially when they are coming from a friend. Could be a great way to try to solve an SLS problem. Chances are the temps, water changes, and food at least will be a bit off. Raise some tads from know SLS parents off site and see what happens.....
As far as shipping them or selling them at shows, I find nothing wrong with that either if the buyers have the skills to raise them.


Rich


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Those leuc tads look just like mine at approx 4-5 weeks. Havent had any morph out with sls so far.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Rich Frye said:


> Ed,
> Were the early descriptions calling those deformations SLS ? Kind of like the generic term that has been overused to lump limb disorders?
> 
> Rich


The term SLS is from the American hobby starting circa 1993 (as shown in ADS publication) but SLS is known from Europe from at least 1983 (and called matchstick legs over there) while scientific publications called it SMUD (Skeletal and Musculature Underdevelopment) (from 1995)). 

Ed


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Ed said:


> Rich Frye said:
> 
> 
> > Ed,
> ...


I should have worded my question better. Ed, are SLS, Matchstick Leg, and SMUD terms once used as a broad lumping to name most all early limb disorders and have there since been set tighter parameters as to what is called SLS now? I ask because while I have very little experience with SLS I have had my share of tads with smaller hind legs than clutchmates that ended up being just fine after morphing. 

Rich


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Rich Frye said:


> Ed


I should have worded my question better. Ed, are SLS, Matchstick Leg, and SMUD terms once used as a broad lumping to name most all early limb disorders and have there since been set tighter parameters as to what is called SLS now? I ask because while I have very little experience with SLS I have had my share of tads with smaller hind legs than clutchmates that ended up being just fine after morphing. 

Rich[/quote]

Hi Rich,

From reviewing the earlier literature onwards there hasn't been any tighter definiton put forth, but the deformation of the hind limbs (as reported) occured with deformation of the front limbs. It is possible that you have a version of it that hasn't been documented to date.. 
Once people could visually look at a metamorph and see that it had SLS etc, there wasn't a lot of interest in doing histopathology and comparing to see if there was any subtle or gross deformation of the other limbs. Unfortunately this is an area where the research has gone slack.. 

Ed


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## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

Thanks ED. My tads with smaller hind legs morph out fine. The occurance is always random. The legs just don't develop at as high a rate as clutchmates. While I notice the difference in hind leg size I would not call it SLS due to the health of the froglets once morphed. 

Rich


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