# Tapole Hotel



## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

Hi guys 

Check this out!

A little rearing system that has worked wonders for me. Quite flexible, you can add or remove trays / cells as necessary. Have raised quite a few tadpoles this way with no problems at all. 

Regards 
Flavs


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Are these systems for sale? If so where can i inquire about one?

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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

not sure if in the states there will be something similar, but here in the UK as far as i know there isn't. I have desinged and built the idea myself. 

kind regards 

Flavs


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Well its a great idea.
Buddy

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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Nice work Fanta, looks very tidy and clean indeed.

I know a couple of folks within the UK using setups very similar to this. Only differences being that the glass compartments are placed in a more horizontally orientated tank rather than your slim, vertical one. 

I believe the little inbuilt 1mm gap is fairly unique though, most just attach a portion of mesh to the bottom in order to allow waste to pass through - so kudos for that idea!

Keep us updated on how it fairs for you over time.

Regards,
Richie


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2009)

Well done!


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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

R1ch13 said:


> Nice work Fanta, looks very tidy and clean indeed.
> 
> I know a couple of folks within the UK using setups very similar to this. Only differences being that the glass compartments are placed in a more horizontally orientated tank rather than your slim, vertical one.
> 
> ...


Hi Richie thanks for the comments. I have had this system for over 5 years, it works out well in all aspects. 

In addition it is also great for observing the behaviour of tadpoles. In this video for example you can observe and come to the conclusion that their sense of smell is very acute, I hardly add the food in and they almost instantaneously start the grazing behaviour. Something that perhaps would be a little harder to observe in other systems. Be warned video is about 5 mins long


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

When you said you take the containers out to clean the reservoir, what do you do with the tads since the water drains out from having the 1mm gap?


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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

Pacblu202 said:


> When you said you take the containers out to clean the reservoir, what do you do with the tads since the water drains out from having the 1mm gap?



In my experience I move them to a swallow dish, ( any dish will do) the trays will be filled with water again and keep them hydrated. 

That said I have had an experience where I needed to just empty the reservoir and fill it back up again, on this occasion I took them out and left them on the counter, it worked out well that time as the whole process took less than a min. 

Though i beleive that one would be very surprise how robust the tadpoles are, they are nowhere near fragile as people make them out to be. (dependant on species of course).

Hope that helps. 

kind regards 

Flavs


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## Pacblu202 (May 8, 2012)

Oh perfect. Great idea!


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

I'm surprised no one has asked already Flav, but what tads are they?

Highland Sirensis (formely Lamasi)? 

I must hit you up for some of those Highlands some day, I commend how well you have done with them over the years. If I am not wrong, I would put money on a good portion of the UK's stock descending from your breeding?

Regards,
Richie


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

what are you using to put the food into the little containers? if that's a turkey baster, that is a great idea (the tadpole hotel is pretty good too )


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

goof901 said:


> what are you using to put the food into the little containers? if that's a turkey baster, that is a great idea (the tadpole hotel is pretty good too )


It looks like a disposable pipette to me. 

I use them to squirt Sera Micron mixed with water into tad occupied brom axils and FC's when I decide to leave the likes of Reticulata tads in viv with their "uncaring" parents.

Regards,
Richie


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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

R1ch13 said:


> I'm surprised no one has asked already Flav, but what tads are they?
> 
> Highland Sirensis (formely Lamasi)?
> 
> ...


Hi Richie
Thanks for the nice comments, i was very lucky with my Lamasi pair, they complimented each other in all aspects. 

However these are not lamasi. They are: 






A really nice species to work with! 

Regards 

Flavs


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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

goof901 said:


> what are you using to put the food into the little containers? if that's a turkey baster, that is a great idea (the tadpole hotel is pretty good too )


Hi there 

Richie was spot on, this is a pipette, as seen works really well for feeding small portions. 

Kind regards 

Flavs


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

Good idea as far as keeping the tadpoles containers free of detritus and build up. My only concern would be that while the detritus is gone from the tadpoles immediate area, it's still in the same body of water and can produce higher ammonia levels. Ever thought about a submersible filter to start up a nitrogen cycle and possible a heater for temperature stability? This would alleviate the need for 100% water changes in favor of some partial water changes and a healthier system. Maybe some leaves and aquatic plants as well


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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

Derek Benson said:


> Good idea as far as keeping the tadpoles containers free of detritus and build up. My only concern would be that while the detritus is gone from the tadpoles immediate area, it's still in the same body of water and can produce higher ammonia levels. Ever thought about a submersible filter to start up a nitrogen cycle and possible a heater for temperature stability? This would alleviate the need for 100% water changes in favor of some partial water changes and a healthier system. Maybe some leaves and aquatic plants as well


Hi Derek, thanks for your input wich is very valuable. 
The current system you see today is actually an upgrrade from a system that incorporated all the allements that you have mentioned above. But as you grow older and wiser (one hopes) you realised the the filter and the heater is actually not a necessity. In my experience for example regarding temperature, i find that if you raise tadpoles under conditons that are consistant or at higher temperatures they morph much faster and not as robust as the ones that are exposed to inconsistancy in temperatures.

Regarding a filter, to my needs, experience shows is not necessary either, there have been experiences of keepers some even documented in this forum about tadpoles being raised in containers that have never had a water change. Also in the wild for example species such as lamasi which are known to deposit the tappoles in holes of bambu that will never have the benefit of water changes, will develop overtime into perfect healthy little frogs. Such examples indicate that tappoles perhaps are not affected by ammonia that much, though one can only be certain if a throrough study is done.

Kind regards 

Flavs


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Very interesting! Thanks Flavs.


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## Derek Benson (Feb 19, 2004)

I'll have to disagree with you on the filter and heater part. Having dealt with everything aquatic for many years, I'd say that a filtered and consistantly heated water produces much healthier froglets than those at unconsistant temperatures and exposed to high levels of ammonia, nitrite, and possibly nitrate.

I can understand simplifying things, making maintenance easier, etc, but calling it an upgrade while leaving so many variables to do as they please does not seem wise to me. There are many heaters available on the market and I agree with you that "cooking" them out of the water does not produce the healthiest frogs, but that's the opposite extreme as your set up with little/no heat. This causes large temperature swings during the photoperiod, inconsistency in water quality and others.

Reguarding the water changes, I definitly believe in doing research about how tadpoles are raised in the wild, but you must also remember that we are rearing these in captivity and while trying to replicate nature is a high priority, it is near impossible to do so completely. I read a paper on here that another member recommended to me about the ability of some plants (bromeliads in this case) were able to absorb ammonia from the water that they held within their axils. There are some species of frogs that will metamorphosize quicker in diminishing water quality, have you kept records of your tads to see if they consistantly morph out?

Not starting any trouble here as I see your view points, but seeing such a sterile set up for tadpoles that are used to surviving and morphing in water that has low pH, higher temperatures (near to the equator than any of us), lower levels of toxins (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) does not seem to be the most efficient way of rearing them. Countless threads on tadpole tea, benefits of tannins and ammonia absorbing plants to back this. I do appreciate your handiness at cutting glass/acrylic as that's an atribute that eludes me.


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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

Hi Derek, 
When addressing your first post I was really careful not to assume anything, I would have appreciated if you did the same in return. There are lots of assumptions in your part that are only valid if you knew the ins and outs of my tadpole care system, which you don’t. 

I would have agreed with you if that applied to me, but it doesn’t. You don’t know what I consider to be inconsistent in terms of temperature and you have no insight in regards to my water quality. 

That is your option and I believe based on experience, and that I cannot challenge, only thank you for sharing it, as I don’t know the ins and outs of your knowledge and yours systems. However being someone that has experimented with the temperature controlled system as well as, I have to state that in my experience, the tadpoles I kept at inconsistent temperatures morphed out better than those raise in controlled temperatures. Perhaps when you have the opportunity to experiment, you will then be in a position to input your findings, which again may differ from mine, due to people having different levels of knowledge and standards. 

Regarding ammonia etc, if in the statement above you are referring to is in general I certainly agree, however if your comment was specificaly aimed at the system, I have to say that I have not disclosed how often I feed or how often I do water changes, therefore your comment would be unfounded and you should not assume that I have high levels of anything. 


"little/ no heat " - "This causes large temperature swings during the photoperiod," Yet again you are making an statement based on assumptions, you don’t know that, you don’t know what my room temperature is like, you don’t know what I consider to be inconsistencies in temperatures. I believe that changes in temperature gradually as the day progresses to be beneficial to tadpoles, I didn’t disclose at what levels, that could have been 2 degrees variables or 10 degrees variables. 

I also find your comment above contradictory, on the principle that in the same post you state a concern regarding ammonia levels, and then you mention about the sterility of the system. 

One fact I would like to make clear is that I don’t disagree with you in general, the points you have raised are very relevant and current, it is just that it doesn’t apply to this system. I don’t have high levels of ammonia and I don’t expose the tadpoles to extreme inconstancies in temperatures. For you to say that “this does not seem to be the most efficient way of rearing them” is quite subjective. Effectiveness can be interpreted in many ways, but what I can disclose is that every tadpole that has ever went into the system came out as to my standards what I consider to be a very healthy froglet, and if you measure effectiveness in numbers I can also disclose that the figure would in the hundreds.

I think is beneficial to have exchange of options such as this, and I believe that different points of views make it for a better hobby. 

One thing though I believe we will both agree on is that fact that our disagreement is based on preferences and experiences, and not on knowledge, with that say I think on this instance we will have to agree to disagree. 
Kind regards 
Flavs


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Very well put.


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## R1ch13 (Apr 16, 2008)

kitcolebay said:


> Very well put.


Amen to that!

Flavs, the Benedicta tads looks fantastic! They are certainly a favourite within my collection also. Are you still working with your Highland Sirensis?

Regardless of whether Flavs system is thought to be ideal or not, I can vouch for the quality of frogs that come out of it. Although Flavs may not remember, we have met before at the first UK Frog Day in which I had a brief chat with him regarding 3 stunning Highland Sirensis sitting on his shared table. Gorgeous, chunky, robust frogs and I can't lie I do kick myself for letting Howard snap them up!

Regards,
Richie


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## Fanta (Apr 30, 2006)

R1ch13 said:


> Amen to that!
> 
> Flavs, the Benedicta tads looks fantastic! They are certainly a favourite within my collection also. Are you still working with your Highland Sirensis?
> 
> ...


Hi Richie 
Oh yes i remember, i am not working with them anymore. They are fantastic frogs to work with and one of the boldest frogs i have ever had, i might go back to them next year, but for now i am fixated with Benedictas, i am even preparing a tank for Pampa Hemosas that i will be collecting around December. Will send you a sneak peak. 

Kind regards 

Flavs


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