# Just got 2 froglets -- are they really Azureus?



## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

I just got these last night. I wasn't the one who picked them up, so I didn't get a look at them until they were home. Are they _really_ Azureus?


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## dtfleming (Dec 27, 2010)

They are not azureus. They are def. a tinc. morph. Looks like a morph of sipiliwini.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

the one on the left is definitely an Azureus. they will develop more spots and the white color will "blue" up. The one on the right, is young. Its color could go a lot of different ways. If you got them from a reputable breeder, you shouldn't doubt the morph.


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## eazyezcape (Nov 29, 2010)

Neither one looks to be Azureus. The one on the right does look to be a Sip. The one on the left looks like a Patricia. Nice frogs either way.


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

mordoria said:


> the one on the left is definitely an Azureus. they will develop more spots and the white color will "blue" up. The one on the right, is young. Its color could go a lot of different ways. If you got them from a reputable breeder, you shouldn't doubt the morph.


Well the thing is, we got them from a local pet store that buys them from an animal hospital that breeds dart frogs. For a few months, we'd had some Azureus reserved for us, and they finally got them in yesterday.


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## eldalote2 (Jun 3, 2009)

Probably need to give them a few weeks/month to color up. If you can not get a definite ID from the breeder then all you will be able to call them is D. tinctorius "unknown" as the morph have a lot of color and pattern diversity.

I would get the number of the animal hospital and give them a call/go look at the adults.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Is there a reason why you are guessing at what these are? Where did you get them? WHat did you pay? Were they bred by this person? Did you see the breeders? When you start guessing you start down the wrong track, we need to get out of that due to the possibilities or pairing them off with other frogs and creating outcrossed frogs, hybrids as well as just a mixed viv that doesnt need to be. 

Michael


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## saruchan (Jun 12, 2010)

The one on the left could be a new river or azureus. Unfortunately you really wont be able to know unless you find out from whoever breed them. The one on the right could be a green sip, cobalt, dwarf cobalt and the list goes on.


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

poison beauties said:


> Is there a reason why you are guessing at what these are? Where did you get them? WHat did you pay? Were they bred by this person? Did you see the breeders? When you start guessing you start down the wrong track, we need to get out of that due to the possibilities or pairing them off with other frogs and creating outcrossed frogs, hybrids as well as just a mixed viv that doesnt need to be.
> 
> Michael


Well I wasn't _supposed_ to be guessing -- we'd been looking for a place to get some Azureus locally, and came across this particular pet store, who said they buy from an animal hospital. After a few months of waiting, this is what we end up with. 

And thanks for all the input, everyone. I'm a first-time dart frog owner, and I've done a lot of research. Getting the wrong morph wasn't something I even considered, so I never expected to be in this position. I'm not really sure what to do now... BTW, the frogs are currently in a temporary 10 gallon viv, because the larger one I've been working on (Exo Terra 36x18x18) isn't ready yet.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

One on the right definitely looks like a Patricia, one on the left looks like new river or sip..... I think the seller owes you an explanation, but at the same time this is a perfect example of why its best to research before you buy. 

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think you should take them to the Animal Hospital that bred them and ask for an explanation. They may not be aware that the pet store is selling different morphs under one name. They need to educate that pet store if they are going to be selling their frogs through them. And you deserve to get the frogs they said they were selling to you.


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

I had an Azureus morph out that 'almost' looked like a faint yellow on his head for about a month. It is now a nice light blue with no trace of yellow. The picture on the right does not look anything like any color of the Azureus I've raised.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

DJK83 said:


> Well I wasn't _supposed_ to be guessing -- we'd been looking for a place to get some Azureus locally, and came across this particular pet store, who said they buy from an animal hospital. After a few months of waiting, this is what we end up with.
> 
> And thanks for all the input, everyone. I'm a first-time dart frog owner, and I've done a lot of research. Getting the wrong morph wasn't something I even considered, so I never expected to be in this position. I'm not really sure what to do now... BTW, the frogs are currently in a temporary 10 gallon viv, because the larger one I've been working on (Exo Terra 36x18x18) isn't ready yet.


I was referring to the other hobbyists playing guess that tinc, its bad practice and a horrible way to teach a new hobbyist. I would personally return them, tell them they owe you some money, tell them if they cant ID an azureus after this much time of selling darts than they are leading with a bad example. I would ask for the contact info to where they got them from and give these people a call, If they know what they are doing they will not be happy to hear their frogs are being mis ID'd and sold to unknowing people. What did they cost you? 

Im sure someone on here could help you out with some real azureus for easily what you paid for yours.

Michael


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm not sure about the one on the left, but the one on the right looks very similar to my Patricias. All of my Azureus morph out *very *blue (leaves no doubt)...do people actually have Azureus morphs that need time to color up???

Here's a pic of mine at about a month old (just to show off!  )...


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Whether you keep them or not I would make sure whatever you do get for that big viv spends some time in Quarantine and get tested, Frogs changing hands like this can pick up some nasties.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

mordoria said:


> the one on the left is definitely an Azureus. they will develop more spots and the white color will "blue" up.


I don't know about that....

If anything, the azureus froglets I've gotten in the past started off with a much darker blue, and as they aged the blue turned a lighter color; not the other way around. (although I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject)


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

I think you should just enjoy the frogs.

Dont get all caught up in the morphs. Enjoy the hobby of frogging. See how you enjoy raising these frogs and then maybe you'll want to get some more. Next time, get them from someone on the board. Theres some really dedicated, focused breeders on here, who would readily sell you a true morp, with a family tree, so you'll know exactly where your frog comes from.

But for now, try out these. You'll see that they will change as they grow. Patterns will emerge, and change, and you'll grow fond of their personalities.
Trust me, youll have plenty more frogs in no time.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

mordoria said:


> I think you should just enjoy the frogs.
> 
> Dont get all caught up in the morphs. Enjoy the hobby of frogging. See how you enjoy raising these frogs and then maybe you'll want to get some more. Next time, get them from someone on the board. Theres some really dedicated, focused breeders on here, who would readily sell you a true morp, with a family tree, so you'll know exactly where your frog comes from.
> 
> ...


I'd really like to know how this helps in any way? This person specifically asked for azureus and paid for azureus. How is getting burned ok in anyway? DO you have some type of attachment to who ripped him off? 

This is a hobby, the frogs are all nice, but people pulling this crap should not be left alone and you never tell someone burned its ok, keep them you can get azureus next time. 

Michael


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

poison beauties said:


> I'd really like to know how this helps in any way? This person specifically asked for azureus and paid for azureus. How is getting burned ok in anyway? DO you have some type of attachment to who ripped him off?
> 
> This is a hobby, the frogs are all nice, but people pulling this crap should not be left alone and you never tell someone burned its ok, keep them you can get azureus next time.
> 
> Michael


Yea, go bust an animal hospitals staff. Like they have bigger things to deal with. I mean, Azureus are now the cheapest, most breed frog on DB. Get another pair, and move on. It would be cool to get true morph info from whoever the hospital got them from but if not, whatever. Would you rather him return the frogs and have the hospital re-distribute them? And we have another post of these mystery frogs in a few weeks? And what if they are HYBRIDS!!! oohhhh then what?


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

We're calling the animal hospital right now to try and get some answers. We already called the person from the pet store, who said they would be happy to take them back if they're not what we want. They didn't seem to know whether or not they were Azureus, which is kind of surprising, given the fact that from the very start, that's what we told them we were looking for. The answer was 'those are the kind we get from the animal hospital'.

Anyway, the one in the pic on the left just decided to climb the glass, so I took another picture. Maybe this will help in getting an ID. Because what I'd like to know is, are they definitely two different morphs? Because if they turn out to at least be the same, I might consider keeping them, and simply making another viv.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

poison beauties said:


> Whether you keep them or not I would make sure whatever you do get for that big viv spends some time in Quarantine and get tested, Frogs changing hands like this can pick up some nasties.


This is a good idea


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

DJK83 said:


> We're calling the animal hospital right now to try and get some answers. We already called the person from the pet store, who said they would be happy to take them back if they're not what we want. They didn't seem to know whether or not they were Azureus, which is kind of surprising, given the fact that from the very start, that's what we told them we were looking for. The answer was 'those are the kind we get from the animal hospital'.
> 
> Anyway, the one in the pic on the left just decided to climb the glass, so I took another picture. Maybe this will help in getting an ID. Because what I'd like to know is, are they definitely two different morphs? Because if they turn out to at least be the same, I might consider keeping them, and simply making another viv.


Great idea, either get your money back and then patronize the lovely vendors on Dendroboard or keep them and patronize the lovely vendors on Dendroboard.


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

Okay, wow... this animal hospital (I'm not allowed to mention their name, right?) says that they keep multiple types of dart frogs in the same tank, and one of these may be a hybrid. Can you believe that?? As for the other, they don't know. "Those are what we get" is what we're hearing yet again. So I'm definitely not going to deal with that place anymore. Now they can't even ID them. Come to think of it, I'm not sure who screwed up, because it's the person at the pet store who said that they'd be getting some in. But now neither party seems to know what exactly they are. Somehow, the idea that we wanted Azureus seems to have been completely forgotten. What a mess.

So what am I supposed to do? Obviously I'm gonna have to buy some true Azureus from someone on this board, but I'd feel kind of bad just returning _these_ ones. They were $55 each, BTW.

Also, who _can_ I buy some Azureus from? I live in Cheektowaga NY.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

mordoria said:


> Yea, go bust an animal hospitals staff. Like they have bigger things to deal with. I mean, Azureus are now the cheapest, most breed frog on DB. Get another pair, and move on. It would be cool to get true morph info from whoever the hospital got them from but if not, whatever. Would you rather him return the frogs and have the hospital re-distribute them? And we have another post of these mystery frogs in a few weeks? And what if they are HYBRIDS!!! oohhhh then what?


So you consider the cheaper frogs to be less than worth it? If these were supposed to be grannies then it would be a worthy cause my bad for treating them all the same. 
If the animal hospital is that busy why are they breeding darts, the least they could do is positively ID everything they have and sell and if they did this, shipped them out with correct ID's I would revisit the shop that sold them. 

Those are a tinc or cross, not a hybrid. Do you have some type of attachment to either of the selling parties? For a new hobbyists you sure have taken some type of offense here. I have to say, your species list in your sig makes me wonder why you would toss azureus away like a cheap frog not worth anything, 

Michael


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## mllaursen (Jan 31, 2011)

Not quite sure why there is any one thinking there is any chance either animal is Azureus. In 15 years I've never seen an azureus (of hundreds) that wasn't definitively identifiable as such the day it came out of the water. I would say the one on the left is likely a sipp and the right is a bit harder to tell but I would go patricia. Definitely not in any way azureus.

Micahel


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I guess it depends on whether you are willing to raise them up as single frogs without breeding them vs giving them back to the pet store for them to be sold to someone else. What a mess


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

mordoria said:


> And what if they are HYBRIDS!!! oohhhh then what?


I'm not interested in rehashing any crossbreed/hybrid arguments, but I find it curious that you seem to have a cavalier attitude towards the subject, but are a member of TWI/ASN, whose registration program was developed as a reaction to this type of situation.


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## eldalote2 (Jun 3, 2009)

This is a predicament.


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## Steve88W (Jan 21, 2011)

There are so many beautiful frogs for sale on this board that you're sure to be happy with and you'll have lineage information. If this is a hobby and more than just a pet, I would politely return these mixed frogs.

Look for a local breeder or reptile show if possible. For $55 each, you can afford to have 2 froglets & shipping.

If they are just to have as pets, enjoy them! (just don't sell any possible offspring)


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Now I'm thinking it would be better to return them to the pet store with a detailed explanation. They are not Azureus, which you were led to believe you were buying. They are not even 2 of the same morph. It is bad form to mix different morphs, etc.

Get your money back and don't buy any of their other frogs with that money. I think that they need to feel the monetary loss for not being more knowledgeable and professional about their animals. Maybe it will prompt them to learn more. 

You can get Azureus from lots of venders on this board. Not playing favorites, as I've not purchased from anyone in your area, but, I believe Richard (Woodsman) has a large variety of tincs. Check out the classifieds and also the vender feed back forum.


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

Well they're more than just "pets" -- I'm certainly interested in getting into this hobby. I'm still torn, though, because I do feel bad just returning them. Then what happens? They get sold to someone else and cause the same confusion? This is really a frustrating situation...


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yea, I know what you mean. However, if you keep them, does that give the pet store the idea that they can make money selling unidentified or mislabled frogs?


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

DJK83 said:


> Well they're more than just "pets" -- I'm certainly interested in getting into this hobby. I'm still torn, though, because I do feel bad just returning them. Then what happens? They get sold to someone else and cause the same confusion? This is really a frustrating situation...


I can certainly understand your situation. It's not the frogs fault and they are beautiful. For me, though, the situation is a bit like rescuing sick frogs. If you purchase them, then it supports that particular arrangement. Money is being made. The hospital will continue to produce animals of mixed lineage, the pet store will continue to buy them and interject them into the hobby.

Even though there seemed to be no malice involved, they did misrepresent the frogs. Also, I wouldn't feel great about supporting a store that has put that little amount of effort into figuring out what they are selling.

...just my 2 cents.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

DJK83 said:


> Okay, wow... this animal hospital (I'm not allowed to mention their name, right?) says that they keep multiple types of dart frogs in the same tank, and one of these may be a hybrid. Can you believe that?? As for the other, they don't know. "Those are what we get" is what we're hearing yet again. So I'm definitely not going to deal with that place anymore. Now they can't even ID them. Come to think of it, I'm not sure who screwed up, because it's the person at the pet store who said that they'd be getting some in. But now neither party seems to know what exactly they are. Somehow, the idea that we wanted Azureus seems to have been completely forgotten. What a mess.
> 
> So what am I supposed to do? Obviously I'm gonna have to buy some true Azureus from someone on this board, but I'd feel kind of bad just returning _these_ ones. They were $55 each, BTW.
> 
> Also, who _can_ I buy some Azureus from? I live in Cheektowaga NY.


why feel bad about returning them? You didn't get what you payed for, and both vendors seemed completely unconcerned about your needs

F***'em


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> why feel bad about returning them? You didn't get what you payed for, and both vendors seemed completely unconcerned about your needs
> 
> F***'em


It's not the vendors I'd feel bad for, it's the frogs, and anyone else who may end up with them without knowing exactly what they are. Part of me just feels obligated to hang on to them. And yeah, I know that would be sort of like supporting those kind of negligent business practices but... I don't know, this is tough. I'm still deciding. For the time being, I fed them, and watched them bouncing around after some fruit flies... dammit, I think I'm getting attached already, lol. This is one hell of a predicament.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

State Veterinary Medical Associations

contact the appropriate veterinary association and explain the situation. if it were me i'd send a message about how the dendrobatid hobby has enough trouble with misidentified animals as it is (with unscrupulous sellers, and jobbers) and that releasing animals of this sort only works against the hard work that many individuals dedicate to the animals and the hobby. keeping lines pure (as true to wild types as possible) is a goal that we as a hobby strive for, and to have a veterinary hospital act so nonchalantly about releasing such animals is in quite bad taste. it shines an unnecessarily bad light on the clinic and its staff, as well as animal hospitals attitude's towards non-standard "pets" nationwide. furthermore i would demand that they contact the clinic and ensure that all future offspring are culled to prevent a possible leak of crossbred animals (particularly those being blatantly sold with false identification) which could not only cause trouble with respect to line purity, but which could also lead to negative health problems due to outcrossing depression. after that i would demand a refund and ask that the animals you received also be humanely euthanized at the expense of the animal hospital.

just my 2 cents
james


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

DJK83 said:


> It's not the vendors I'd feel bad for, it's the frogs, and anyone else who may end up with them without knowing exactly what they are. Part of me just feels obligated to hang on to them. And yeah, I know that would be sort of like supporting those kind of negligent business practices but... I don't know, this is tough. I'm still deciding. For the time being, I fed them, and watched them bouncing around after some fruit flies... dammit, I think I'm getting attached already, lol. This is one hell of a predicament.


That feeling you have and unwillingness to return them is exactly why those vendors will continue to screw unknowledgeable people over....

EDIT- now that I'm actually able to see the pics on my computer instead of my phone, those could both easily be mixes....


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

DJK83 said:


> It's not the vendors I'd feel bad for, it's the frogs, and anyone else who may end up with them without knowing exactly what they are. Part of me just feels obligated to hang on to them. And yeah, I know that would be sort of like supporting those kind of negligent business practices but... I don't know, this is tough. I'm still deciding. For the time being, I fed them, and watched them bouncing around after some fruit flies... dammit, I think I'm getting attached already, lol. This is one hell of a predicament.


whats the guarantee on the animal's health? 

if it comes down to it your going to have to make a call. either keep the animals (most likely in their own enclosures) for their expected lifespan (which can be well over a decade) or euthanize them. 

i wouldnt feel toooo bad about euthanizing them, and returning the dead animals. while it hurts the pet store it also sends the message that this isnt a profitable venture and may prevent future transactions with the animal hospital.

james


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

This is why you NEVER buy frogs from a pet shop. You purchase them from a reputable breeder. You may have a bigger issue to deal with here. What pathogens did they pick up on their way through the pet shop? Have you put them in your viv already? That would mean that your viv is now contaminated and when you do get the frogs you are looking for, your viv is not safe to put them in.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

I can tell you this, returning them may hit you as just tossing them away but if you have a true interest in this hobby's long time managment as well as breeding you need to secure stock that is tracked and properly ID'd. I would not keep them, this changes nothing even if you make a formal complaint because neither party lost out, telling them you want your money back will do more. They as well as you need to find out whats going on. I would not just take their word for it, FOr all you know they could have just tried to pull a fast one on your, there is a ong history of pet shops doing this......


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## eldalote2 (Jun 3, 2009)

Why couldn't he say "This is not what I wanted, it was misrepresented, I would like a discount."?


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

eldalote2 said:


> Why couldn't he say "This is not what I wanted, it was misrepresented, I would like a discount."?


Why? In my opinion you would still be contributing to buy up frogs that will wreck this hobby in the long run. I have to think bot parties knew wtf was going on, if this pet shop has been selling darts to the point there is a wait list that they should have known an azureus, its only the most popular blue dart in the world. Those frogs have changed hands more than once now, all bets are off on a guaranteed ID, All bets are off on them being clean, Id honestly rather see them sit in a petstore than end up being sold as something they are not and paird up with something else. Its bad yes, but there comes a time the hobby needs to recognize that pet stores are hurting this hobby, once they get the frogs its usually too late to be sure of anything.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Pumilo said:


> This is why you NEVER buy frogs from a pet shop. You purchase them from a reputable breeder. You may have a bigger issue to deal with here. What pathogens did they pick up on their way through the pet shop? Have you put them in your viv already? That would mean that your viv is now contaminated and when you do get the frogs you are looking for, your viv is not safe to put them in.


Doug, I have to point out that not all pet stores are bad, the consumer just needs to be more inquisative to make sure they are dealing with a reputable store. Ask questions, lots of them, and no impulse purchases!


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> This is why you NEVER buy frogs from a pet shop. You purchase them from a reputable breeder. You may have a bigger issue to deal with here. What pathogens did they pick up on their way through the pet shop? Have you put them in your viv already? That would mean that your viv is now contaminated and when you do get the frogs you are looking for, your viv is not safe to put them in.


I didn't put them in my large viv -- I threw a temporary 10 gallon one together when we got the call that they had some in, since the larger viv isn't quite done yet. 



poison beauties said:


> I can tell you this, returning them may hit you as just tossing them away but if you have a true interest in this hobby's long time managment as well as breeding you need to secure stock that is tracked and properly ID'd. I would not keep them, this changes nothing even if you make a formal complaint because neither party lost out, telling them you want your money back will do more. They as well as you need to find out whats going on. I would not just take their word for it, FOr all you know they could have just tried to pull a fast one on your, there is a ong history of pet shops doing this......


I don't think they _purposely_ mislead us. This situation just seems to be the result of a _lot_ of negligence; when the person at the pet store was asked over the phone today if the frogs were _really_ Azureus, they said they weren't sure. It seems like they knew so little on the subject of the various morphs that it didn't even mean anything to them when we'd talked about wanting Azureus; in their mind, if they were blue, they'd suffice.

As for whether or not I'm keeping them, I still haven't decided. It's a much harder decision than I'd have thought. It seems to me that if we return them, they'll just be sold to someone else. I don't see how that would make any difference with regard to their business practices. As for asking that they be euthanized, like James mentioned, that seems pretty extreme. I mean, I'd rather keep them in a separate enclosure, and make sure they can't produce offspring, than see _that_ happen to them.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

DJK83 said:


> As for asking that they be euthanized, like James mentioned, that seems pretty extreme. I mean, I'd rather keep them in a separate enclosure, and make sure they can't produce offspring, than see _that_ happen to them.


i understood that when i wrote that it would come off as harsh, but as any of us froggers that have been around awhile, would attest, the majority of people in this hobby are "just passing through". when people get into darts, its very exciting, and fascinating, and many will keep their animals for a few years, then (for whatever reason) get out of the hobby. like i explained before these frogs can live for 10-20 years in captivity and anyone (myself included) proclaiming that they know they will care for the frog for its entire natural life is sort of a joke. we try our best to keep up with the frogs and their maintenance, but unless you can read the future, you cant say with certainty that you will be able to accomplish this. so if in a few years you move to a place where you arent able to keep the frogs, or have a financial crisis, or some other circumstance which prohibits you from keeping these frogs (and keeping them separate as you intend), what then? 

i just feel that its better to eliminate all doubt that these sorts of animals could be integrated into otherwise "pure" lines. 

im not saying that your this sort of person, but its not out of the realm of possibility for someone who, for instance, has a financial crisis to sell off their frogs (which they claimed they would keep separate from other animals because of a lack of positive ID or because of their origin being known to be mixed) as something they are not. its a sort of doomsday scenario for that line. the frogs are bred with those of known origin, and distributed and next thing you know its not an azureus, its an azureus X with ______, and 100 people have them and intend to breed them as something their not.

if you return them, you have to believe that the next person will be sold the frogs, and get stuck in the same situation (if they even care enough to listen). its unfortunate, but its a lose lose, and there is only one way to ensure they dont become an issue...

james


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

billschwinn said:


> Doug, I have to point out that not all pet stores are bad, the consumer just needs to be more inquisative to make sure they are dealing with a reputable store. Ask questions, lots of them, and no impulse purchases!


Granted, however most of them have a bad habit of rotating different animals through the same tanks without properly disinfecting everything each time. This increases chances of multiple pathogens.


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

Well I've decided to return them. I don't see how I could euthanize them, or demand that the pet store I bought them from do it, either. I mean, how would that conversation go? "Hey, since those frogs you sold me are not Azureus, and likely hybrids of unknown morphs, I'd like my money back, and additionally, I demand that you put them down"... Sorry, but there's just no way I can say that.

As for the possibility of keeping them, I've just ordered 5 Azureus froglets from someone on this board, and it just wouldn't be feasible for me to care for two more, as well. As much as I'd like to keep them, I just can't do it right now. 

I really do appreciate everyone's advice, and I hope it's not viewed as irresponsible to simply return them. But I don't have unlimited funds, and I'd really be stretching things if I maintained a separate enclosure for just those two, or worse, a separate one for _each_, which could end up being necessary.

If I'm allowed to name the pet store and animal hospital I've been dealing with, and you guys would like to know so that someone could take further action, let me know. It's kind of an awkward situation, because everyone we've dealt with has been very nice, so it's not as if I have some kind of vendetta against them. But I understand that what they're doing is seriously frowned upon in this hobby, so something may need to be done.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

Congrats on your order, keep in mind if only one viv is the plan your 5 tincs wont get along together too long unless you end up 4.1
Make sure you quarantine and test them before putting them in the viv.

Id personally like to know the name of both places caught up in this mess, I find it very odd an animal hospital is breeding darts, wholesaling them to petshops and not being able to accurately ID them.

Michael


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## MrFusion (Jul 18, 2011)

I would absolutely return them. In my opinion it's impossible to learn how to care for the tads and morph them out without knowing that people don't want hybrid frogs. You really need to reinforce this by returning them. 

I know you like them now, but in a few months you will wish you had returned them. Obviously you're putting a lot of time and effort into your new vivarium and you're going to regret you didn't follow things through by getting true Azureus. By keeping them you're really setting yourself up for disappointment in the long run. Every time you look in the viv you'll say to yourself "That looks cool, but true Azureus would have looked a million times cooler!".

There are lots of great breeders here. Just make sure to check seller feedback before you buy. Don't be overly concerned with shipping either. The weather is cooling off so there's not much need for concern. Besides, most sellers guarantee live arrival.

P.S. I've never seen ANY juvenile Azureus that weren't blue right from the start. Even my Azureus tads are blue just before they morph out. This "coloring up" business is nonsense.


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

DJK83 said:


> As for the possibility of keeping them, I've just ordered 5 Azureus froglets from someone on this board, and it just wouldn't be feasible for me to care for *two more*, as well. As much as I'd like to keep them, I just can't do it right now.
> 
> I


You say this now. Its always 2 more, eventually, they add up to about 35 frogs or more. Its rather addicting. There is always one more tank. Once they start breeding, then you have cute little tadpoles which morph into the cutest litte froglet babies. 

Congrats on getting 5 new froggies.


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## DJK83 (Aug 11, 2011)

botanyboy03 said:


> You say this now. Its always 2 more, eventually, they add up to about 35 frogs or more. Its rather addicting. There is always one more tank. Once they start breeding, then you have cute little tadpoles which morph into the cutest litte froglet babies.
> 
> Congrats on getting 5 new froggies.


Hahaha! I didn't mean that I'd _never_ be able to care for two more; I know I'll have to when I eventually end up with tadpoles. I got 5 froglets to ensure that I _do_ end up with a pair. I simply meant that I can't handle any more right _now_. But I'm certainly prepared to in the future.


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## rbrock (Nov 2, 2008)

The one on the right is not. The one on the left could be, if it is the same as the other then niether are it is hard to tell the color from the 1st pic. They are pretty cool though


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