# Vivarium water feature



## Jing (Apr 13, 2015)

I am planning my first vivarium. Here is a rough draft front view of my plan for the water feature at the moment.










It is not to scale. It is 20 gallons and for dart frogs. The pump and filter will be towards the back with a cavity to reach the pump and a sealed styrofoam enclosure for the filter. Going to figure out a way to use some substrate barrier on the filter enclosure to pre filter the filter intake. The pebbles will extend from the filter enclosure to the front of the tank.

I wonder if anyone thinks this will work or if there is a fatal flaw or considerations I should be aware of.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## kvturner (Apr 17, 2015)

I was actually considering something similar for my 20 G tank, (but instead of a pump, simply having the filter). I'd love to hear opinions on this set up.


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## Jing (Apr 13, 2015)

It seemed to me that the filter would mostly filter the water close to the filter but not circulate the water around the whole tank so I added the pump. Thought the double waterfall could be cool too.

I have read that many people choose to not have a pump or filter. I figured the more circulation and filtering would mean less need to change the water frequently. Might need to spend more time messing with the pump and filter though I don't know.

I wonder if my design would be enough distance from the water and the substrate. I have read that if the substrate wicks up the water everything can get too soggy. Perhaps there should be more of a barrier/ or not?


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## Weston (Mar 21, 2015)

I've done a similar setup up for a croc skink. You will want to watch the water-table and the substrate; however, the water-table can get pretty close to the substrate barrier without causing problems. If you're concerned, I'd recommend just buffering the depth of the false bottom on the side with the substrate.


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## kvturner (Apr 17, 2015)

A 40I should push the water a fairly decent bit. I'm not familiar with the false bottom, (I'll be getting my tankless kit this week, so I'll see it then), so I'm not sure how permeable it is. If the water is fairly freeflowing, I wouldn't think a pump would be needed, but I'm not entirely sure. I'm also not familar with the substrate barrier. I would think some sort of thick material or plastic would be needed to keep the substrate from getting soggy. That's kind of what I'm wondering about more than anything.


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## Weston (Mar 21, 2015)

kvturner said:


> A 40I should push the water a fairly decent bit. I'm not familiar with the false bottom, (I'll be getting my tankless kit this week, so I'll see it then), so I'm not sure how permeable it is. If the water is fairly freeflowing, I wouldn't think a pump would be needed, but I'm not entirely sure. I'm also not familar with the substrate barrier. I would think some sort of thick material or plastic would be needed to keep the substrate from getting soggy. That's kind of what I'm wondering about more than anything.


False bottom/hydroton is very permeable. You mention the tankless kit, so I"m guessing Josh's Frogs? That stuff is basically similar to little chunks of lava rock. Typically the substrate barrier is a mesh-like fabric. Similar to what's used in landscaping. A thick plastic/rubber barrier would certainly work in keeping water from reaching the substrate, but it wouldn't allow drainage from the substrate into the viv's water-table, which wouldn't be good for plants and could also lead to soggy substrate. 
As long as you keep the water-table below the substrate, there shouldn't be any problems.


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## kvturner (Apr 17, 2015)

Weston said:


> False bottom/hydroton is very permeable. You mention the tankless kit, so I"m guessing Josh's Frogs? That stuff is basically similar to little chunks of lava rock. Typically the substrate barrier is a mesh-like fabric. Similar to what's used in landscaping. A thick plastic/rubber barrier would certainly work in keeping water from reaching the substrate, but it wouldn't allow drainage from the substrate into the viv's water-table, which wouldn't be good for plants and could also lead to soggy substrate.
> As long as you keep the water-table below the substrate, there shouldn't be any problems.


Josh's Frogs indeed. So, just keep the water low, and it should be fine?


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## Weston (Mar 21, 2015)

kvturner said:


> Josh's Frogs indeed. So, just keep the water low, and it should be fine?


Nice, I like their products. 
Yeah... in my case it took a little experimenting. The trick is, of course, that a pump needs to be totally submerged. In my tank that dictated the depth of the water table. I did end up with a swampy tank for a bit, and solved the problem by increasing the depth of my false bottom. You will still find that the there is some interplay between the water-table and the substrate, but in it's ideal state this just helps keep the substate moist/creating a water cycle in your micro-climate. 
You shouldn't have problems with swampy conditions unless the level of the water pretty much rises even with the substrate barrier. The real purpose of the barrier, while helping to keep the water moving the way it should through the substrates, is to prevent the substrate from seeping into the false bottom, which can cause unwanted bacterial growth in the tank.

So in my case, and this is just my opinion: As far as the initial drawing, I'd just add a little more of the false bottom/hydroton so the substrate is a little higher. Haha, although I also know the OP said the diagram isn't to scale.


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## kvturner (Apr 17, 2015)

What about filtration? Would a filter be advised for a water feature, or is an airstone or pump for water movement enough to keep things from getting stagnant between water changes?


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## Jing (Apr 13, 2015)

I believe the pump I bought is supposed to be 1.5 inches tall. Still waiting on the shipment. The filter says minimum 2 inches of water so I was thinking around 2.5 inches should be plenty. Given that, I imagine I would try to make the substrate bottom start at around 3 inches. Does that sound about right?


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## Adogowo (Feb 8, 2013)

Sounds about right


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## Jing (Apr 13, 2015)

Well, it seemed like a cool idea in my head. The filter I ordered was way too big so I abandoned the filter idea and the pump made much more noise than I was expecting so I decided to just have a little pond. After adding the substrate and sphagnum layer the angle to get down to the water was way too steep to be practical. I ended up patching the hole with egg crate and weed stop and just went without the water feature in the end. I imagine they would prefer to have a fresh water bowl anyway. Live and learn I guess. Thanks everyone for your posts.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

I toyed around with the possibility of using en external fish filter as a pump/filter, even bought an eheim 250 but instead Im going to put in a bulkhead or 2, one for my river (front to back) and one for my drainage layer, have them filter down into a 5 gallon lidded bucket and filter that before it hits my mistking also tied into that bucket


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## Jing (Apr 13, 2015)

I ended up abandoning the idea because the transition from the top of the substrate to the water level ended up being too steep. I just patched the hole in the milkcrate with more milkcrate so the substrate level was all even. The water pump ended up being louder than I was expecting also, so I'm just using a water dish.


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