# Horrible news!!!



## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

On Saturday I had to go out of state for my brother's bachelor party. I stayed overnight and returned Sunday evening (last night). I instructed my wife to turn of the air conditioning in my reptile/frog room and to turn it back on in the morning. My wife turned the AC off, but left all of my lights on. In the morning, she never turned the AC back on. My room is VERY well insulated, and holds in the heat too well. The lights and the sun make the room unbearable. 
I asked my wife early Sunday evening if the room felt too cold. She told me she forgot to turn on AC and would do it immediately. I asked her how hot the room felt, and she said HOT!!!
I came home about 3 hours after this conversation and immediately checked. As you walk into the room, my tank of anthonyi Salvias is right there on the left at eye level. I noticed that 2 frogs were dead. I freaked out!!
I opened the tank and found all 4 of my adults and 2 froglets were cooked. 
I checked my tanks with my azureus next. They were in bad shape and twitching. I moved all 4 into a cup with a small amount of RO water to try to cool them down. 
Next the Lueks tank. Same as azureus. Same treatment issued. 
Auratus and banded lueks same, but not as bad. Sitting upright, not twitching. Same treatment. 
All came back around after observing them for about 5 hours. I put them back in their tanks around 3 am. 
This morning all were still alive and acted normally and ate very well. Do I still have to worry about these other frogs dying from this incident? 
I now know that I can not rely on my wife to take care of my room, and she already said that she does not want the responsibility.


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## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

You make a convincing argument for AUTOMATION. Seriously, get a thermostat or a timer. You'll never have to worry again.


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

Broseph said:


> You make a convincing argument for AUTOMATION. Seriously, get a thermostat or a timer. You'll never have to worry again.


Can a window AC unit go on a timer? My lights used to be controlled by timers, but some stopped working as timers. I just am now in the habit of turning them on and off myself.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Yes.
I think Whirlpool makes one. 

Really sorry about your frogs. I would think the ones that made it should be ok.
My Terribilis tank was in the high 80`s for hours and they made it.


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

Man that sucks. Sorry to hear about your loss. I had a similar issue earlier this year, but luckily for me it happened in the spring before the temperatures were extreme and no damage was done. I went out and immediately bought a programmable thermostat outlet for my frog house. Now I don't have to worry about my significant other forgetting to plug in my A/C and I don't have to run it all day long while I'm at work. It works great. Here's the one I have:

http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

tatz4ever said:


> This morning all were still alive and acted normally and ate very well. Do I still have to worry about these other frogs dying from this incident?


Unfortunately you may see some residual effects from the hyperthermia that are long-term. It really depends on the duration, and actual temperatures experienced in the enclosures. 
Some species can tolerate extended stays in the high 80-90*F range better than others, depending on their native climate fluctuations, and adaptive behaviors/physiology.


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## kgj (May 2, 2014)

Hayden said:


> Man that sucks. Sorry to hear about your loss. I had a similar issue earlier this year, but luckily for me it happened in the spring before the temperatures were extreme and no damage was done. I went out and immediately bought a programmable thermostat outlet for my frog house. Now I don't have to worry about my significant other forgetting to plug in my A/C and I don't have to run it all day long while I'm at work. It works great. Here's the one I have:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8


Completely agree with automation. Thanks for supplying the link. Just a question though- don't most modern AC units have a relatively accurate thermostat built in? I bought a new one at BJ's for this summer for my living room- I set it at 75, use a fan for some additional circulation and the thermometer next to the viv reads 75 +/- 0.5 degrees. The AC auto-cycles to keep the temperature constant. 

I can see something like that being very useful for a radiator in the wintertime- or when using older AC units (with dials)- but is it necessary for modern ACs?

Sorry to hear about the bad news, OP


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your frogs. I am curious to know how your tanks are ventilated.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

One thing came to mind when you said you put them into a cup with RO water to cool them down.. Now I am not sure how the amphibians relate to this as far as like mammals do.. But long story short, when I was younger we had a couple rabbits for pets, they had a hutch outside by our shop. We were maybe 10-11 years old. Well it got to be really hot outside one summer and we were outside playing and heard a loud squeel. Turned out one of the rabbits got a bit to hot and probably stroked out and died.. The other was panting super heavy and basically dieing as well. My sister grabbed it and took it inside and put it in a bath to cool it down... Basically being super hot to cold water was a terrible idea and caused it to go into shock.. Needless to say we learned a valuable lesson that day. I would be curious to know if that same scenario could of happened with a frog? I do know if it were to happen to me, I wouldnt throw a frog into a cup of water. even at room temp 70-75 degrees. But I would heavily mist their viv. and turn the AC on and let it gradually decline. Sorry to hear about your loss and hopefully the others pull through just fine!


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

Mine is a new unit but has no thermostat. It's just a small window unit though so that may be why. 

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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

Nismo95 said:


> One thing came to mind when you said you put them into a cup with RO water to cool them down.. Now I am not sure how the amphibians relate to this as far as like mammals do.. But long story short, when I was younger we had a couple rabbits for pets, they had a hutch outside by our shop. We were maybe 10-11 years old. Well it got to be really hot outside one summer and we were outside playing and heard a loud squeel. Turned out one of the rabbits got a bit to hot and probably stroked out and died.. The other was panting super heavy and basically dieing as well. My sister grabbed it and took it inside and put it in a bath to cool it down... Basically being super hot to cold water was a terrible idea and caused it to go into shock.. Needless to say we learned a valuable lesson that day. I would be curious to know if that same scenario could of happened with a frog? I do know if it were to happen to me, I wouldnt throw a frog into a cup of water. even at room temp 70-75 degrees. But I would heavily mist their viv. and turn the AC on and let it gradually decline. Sorry to hear about your loss and hopefully the others pull through just fine!


Hmm, that's weird because when I was in the Marine Corps, anyone suffering from heat casualties (and there were more than I can count in Iraq in the summer) were thrown into a tub full of ice water to bring their core temperature down quickly.

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## kgj (May 2, 2014)

Hayden said:


> Mine is a new unit but has no thermostat. It's just a small window unit though so that may be why.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


Makes sense, I needed a big one (12K BTU) for a fairly large room. If it doesn't have a thermostat built in, a wall option like that is an awesome buy. Just would hate to see someone buy one if they didn't need to.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Hayden said:


> Hmm, that's weird because when I was in the Marine Corps, anyone suffering from heat casualties (and there were more than I can count in Iraq in the summer) were thrown into a tub full of ice water to bring their core temperature down quickly.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


Very interesting. All I remember was it immediately put the rabbit into shock and killed it. Maybe it was just at a different level of heat stroke? I'm no doctor lol


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## redfrogger (Nov 6, 2010)

Nismo95 said:


> Very interesting. All I remember was it immediately put the rabbit into shock and killed it. Maybe it was just at a different level of heat stroke? I'm no doctor lol


Most likely a febrile seizure. Rapid change in core temperature from hot to cold or vice versa can do this. Why you should gradually reduce core temperature if overheating. But amphibians may respond differently than mammals.


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## punctata (Jan 31, 2011)

Can high temps sterilize a frog? I have heard of this with some tree frogs.


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

My AC is a small 5000k BTU unit. No thermostat. I will be ordering the one listed above. 
I did not plunge them in ice cold water to cool them down. The AC was on for 3 hours before I got home. Room was cooling off. It was all I could think to do for the frogs that were still alive. Obviously it helped at that moment. I hope there are no long term effects, but if they are now sterile, so be it! I am glad that my PETS are still alive. 
I am also trying to figure out why my timers stopped working and hope to fix them or replace them if necessary.


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## RRRavelo (Nov 21, 2007)

I recently purchased some timers from Ace that were digital and cheap, $21 a pop if I remember correctly. A lot quieter and more reliable than the older mechanical type. 
There are a few multifunction timers, I think Zoomed makes them, that are fairly cheap and highly programmable too.

Sorry about the ones that died.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm going to repeat a question. How were the enclosures ventilated? 

Some comments 

Ed


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

Ed said:


> I'm going to repeat a question. How were the enclosures ventilated?
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


I guess I missed this question. The tank where they died is a 20 high vert tank with the screening at the top of the mod. Two of the other tanks are zoo med tanks. The last tank is a 20 extra high with a screen top. There is always a ceiling fan and a table fan running to move the air.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

mammals are prone to shock if you wet them down while suffering from heat, they say to just give a dog room temp water NEVER put ice in dog water, I know it sounds weird but it can shock them out, with frogs idk they absorb through the skin so as long as it wasnt a drastic temp change I would assume they would be fine. dude you need timers though I have everything set on timers except food lol also what kind of light are you using that puts out heat like that? Ive got nothing but LEDs and it doesnt get hot hot in my frog room


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Wusserton said:


> they say to just give a dog room temp water NEVER put ice in dog water, I know it sounds weird but it can shock them out


Not to get too off topic, but I'm pretty sure that one is an untrue facebook rumor
snopes.com: Is Ice Water Dangerous for Dogs?


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

Idk I heard it from a vet, i give my dog ice all the time just never when hes super heated from strenuous play, maybe it is a rumor idk lol


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

Wusserton said:


> mammals are prone to shock if you wet them down while suffering from heat, they say to just give a dog room temp water NEVER put ice in dog water, I know it sounds weird but it can shock them out, with frogs idk they absorb through the skin so as long as it wasnt a drastic temp change I would assume they would be fine. dude you need timers though I have everything set on timers except food lol also what kind of light are you using that puts out heat like that? Ive got nothing but LEDs and it doesnt get hot hot in my frog room


The lights on my frog tanks are CFLs. But I also have a ton of reptiles in the room. Those tanks are producing heat in the room. When the sun is out, more heat is produced and trapped in the room. I generally run the AC in that room year round.


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## Wusserton (Feb 21, 2014)

tatz4ever said:


> The lights on my frog tanks are CFLs. But I also have a ton of reptiles in the room. Those tanks are producing heat in the room. When the sun is out, more heat is produced and trapped in the room. I generally run the AC in that room year round.



It sucks all around, Im glad you saved as many as you could! I thought about moving everything down into my basement but would have to run electrical first and at least semi-finish it off, all for this reason too 


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

tatz4ever said:


> I guess I missed this question. The tank where they died is a 20 high vert tank with the screening at the top of the mod. Two of the other tanks are zoo med tanks. The last tank is a 20 extra high with a screen top. There is always a ceiling fan and a table fan running to move the air.


What are the dimensions of the screening? 

The exterior fans don't help with air exchange in the tanks. They just make sure that the temperature is more evenly distributed from the ceiling to the floor. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

Ed said:


> What are the dimensions of the screening?
> 
> The exterior fans don't help with air exchange in the tanks. They just make sure that the temperature is more evenly distributed from the ceiling to the floor.
> 
> ...


Screen is 3 inches high by 10 inches wide.


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## Standby Diver (Mar 9, 2014)

It is totally cool to put someone in cold water when hyperthermic. Like hayden said it is done in the military all the time. For a while people though is had the potential to cause further hyperthermia but that is not the case. 

Acute Whole-Body Cooling for Exercise-Induced Hyperthermia: A Systematic Review

Old and busted.
"This method (ice baths) has been challenged in the past due to speculation that peripheral vasoconstriction and shivering cause a paradoxical rise in body temperature"

New Hotness.
"After an extensive and critical review of the available research on whole-body cooling for the treatment of exertional hyperthermia, we concluded that ice-water immersion provides the most efficient cooling."

In reference to putting a dog into "shock" you simply won't. If you get a mammals face wet with cold water you may activate the mammalian diving reflex which may make a dog rather uncomfortable as well as shunt blood and slow the heart rate down, but you won't put a mammal into "shock" from cold water immersion.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

So SORRY, to hear this news.
How hot was the room?
vs. how hot was it inside the terrariums? 

I'm wondering also, might be time to turn off the lights over the terrarium for a few days...


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

How is that thermostat outlet working out for you?

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## tim13 (Feb 1, 2011)

My whole house AC/Heater works just fine for my frog tanks. That said, I don't have any reptiles with heat lamps. All my tanks do have large industrial fluorescent lights (4X 4' bulbs per light). I guess my question is as follows: Did your house AC unit not help at all? I can't imagine your wife was home with no AC on.


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

Hayden said:


> How is that thermostat outlet working out for you?
> 
> Sent from my LG-LG730 using Tapatalk


Works great! Regulates the temps in the room 24 hours a day!


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

tim13 said:


> My whole house AC/Heater works just fine for my frog tanks. That said, I don't have any reptiles with heat lamps. All my tanks do have large industrial fluorescent lights (4X 4' bulbs per light). I guess my question is as follows: Did your house AC unit not help at all? I can't imagine your wife was home with no AC on.


The frogs and reptiles are in man cave. It is cooled by a window AC unit. She rarely goes in there. She was out for the day with my daughters.


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## tatz4ever (Mar 12, 2014)

Steverd said:


> So SORRY, to hear this news.
> How hot was the room?
> vs. how hot was it inside the terrariums?
> 
> I'm wondering also, might be time to turn off the lights over the terrarium for a few days...


I have no clue what the temps were, but when I starts reaching in to take out frogs (dead and alive), I could feel the heat with my hands. 
I'm glad to say that every frog that survived this, seems to be doing fine!


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

Sorry for your loss.

I couldn't read through all the replies but I have my AC plugged into a timer. It takes a good day off to figure out how often and how long the AC needs to cycle, but it's worth it...I never have to worry unless I loose power.


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## MondoBongo (Aug 3, 2014)

sorry for your loss. losing livestock of any kind is always the worst feeling.

i'm a big fan of automation myself, currently new to darts so i haven't set up a tank yet, however i have been keeping a saltwater tank for a few years now.

one of the best pieces of equipment i've purchased has been my Neptune Apex controller.

Apex Controllers | Neptune Systems

i'm considering using one of these when i set my viv up as well. it lets you program alarms for things go over/under temperature, automate some timers, and even has the ability to be access remotely so you can monitor things when you're out of the house. i'm more than a bit OCD, and i love being able to pick up my phone and know exactly my salinity/temp is at any given time of day, or 12 - 20 given times a day. 

i don't know if the outlets are rated highly enough for something like an AC unit, you would have to check the specifics of them, but i use them with high wattage heaters and lighting to great effect.

obviously a little more geared towards saltwater applications, but the temp sensors and notification functions would be quite useful in a viv style setup. if for nothing else than over temp warnings.

again, sorry to hear about your loss.


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