# Pc fan air circulation input



## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

I just wanted to share my experience with PC fan circulation. I used a link provided on dendroboard to make 40 mm fans that mount to the inside of the viv. Included a picture. The fans were rated at 4 cfm. Which i have learned is negligible...

I had posted problems before with trying to warm the bottom of my 40 gallon breeder verts a bit toward the bottom. the top by the lights was 85 and the floor was 71-72. My patricias did not like the 72 degrees as they were used to their grow out tank which was around 77-78.

Anyways, I shopped around and found 60 mm fans that were rated at 20 cfm on newegg. I hooked them to my fan controller, and they work awesome!!! All my frogs are out all the time now with the air moving and it raised the floor temp to 74-75 and the top temp is around 83-84. Pics attached.


Original 40 mm fan with housing










Fan controller









New 60 mm fans.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Looks great!

Please tell me the materials and what link you used to construct the fan housing. I was looking at a site that recommend a 2-1/2" x 2" PVC reducer, but I cannot find the reducer that size and shape at Local Lowes or HD.


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

Tomoko Schum said:


> Looks great!
> 
> Please tell me the materials and what link you used to construct the fan housing. I was looking at a site that recommend a 2-1/2" x 2" PVC reducer, but I cannot find the reducer that size and shape at Local Lowes or HD.


Those are 2" to 1.5" i believe, there are no 2.5" pvc pieces. But the point of my post was that those fans were worthless.... the 60mm ones i did not use any kind of housing on.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

kgb said:


> the 60mm ones i did not use any kind of housing on.


Now that you mentioned it, I see that your 60 mm fan does not have any housing. I was under the assumtion that you must have a housing for it. I was kinda blinded by the idea. It's the power of suggestion, I guess. 

I suppose that you glued the swivel elbow + male connecting piece and a screen material directly to the fan? Did you use silicone or some other glue?

Does the humidity affect the fan at all?

Oh, one more thing. What is the make of your fan?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Tomoko Schum said:


> Now that you mentioned it, I see that your 60 mm fan does not have any housing. I was under the assumtion that you must have a housing for it. I was kinda blinded by the idea. It's the power of suggestion, I guess.
> 
> I suppose that you glued the swivel elbow + male connecting piece and a screen material directly to the fan? Did you use silicone or some other glue?
> 
> ...


Some of the fan details you are looking for are detailed in the last few posts here. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76581-pumilos-75-corner-viv-12.html


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you, Doug. 

How come did you round off the corners of your fan?


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

Tomoko Schum said:


> Now that you mentioned it, I see that your 60 mm fan does not have any housing. I was under the assumtion that you must have a housing for it. I was kinda blinded by the idea. It's the power of suggestion, I guess.
> 
> I suppose that you glued the swivel elbow + male connecting piece and a screen material directly to the fan? Did you use silicone or some other glue?
> 
> ...


I used epoxy to secure the threaded part to the fan and the screening. The make is "masscool". No humidity problems as of yet. Fingers crossed.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

kgb said:


> I used epoxy to secure the threaded part to the fan and the screening. The make is "masscool". No humidity problems as of yet. Fingers crossed.


Thank you 

It looks as though you also rounded off the corner of your fans. What is the reason for such a modification?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Tomoko Schum said:


> Thank you, Doug.
> 
> How come did you round off the corners of your fan?


To make it smaller so that in fit into a smaller ABS/PVC tube. Smaller just makes it less obtrusive.


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## kgb (Aug 2, 2011)

The 60mm fans are not in any kind of tube, i clipped the corners off just to make it look better and smaller... had big bulky hunks of plastic there. I would have liked to fit them into a small tube as i did the 40mm, but i oculdnt find anything the right size. PVC doesnt come in 2.5", only 1.5, 2, and 3.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Thank you


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

kgb said:


> The 60mm fans are not in any kind of tube, i clipped the corners off just to make it look better and smaller... had big bulky hunks of plastic there. I would have liked to fit them into a small tube as i did the 40mm, but i oculdnt find anything the right size. PVC doesnt come in 2.5", only 1.5, 2, and 3.


PVC does come in 2.5". It also comes in 1/2", 3/4", 1", 4", 2.5", 5", 6", and 8".
2 1/2 Inch PVC Coupling Slip x Slip [429-025] - $4.27 : The Spud Gun Technology Center™, Spudtech gives spuds wings!
PVC Slip Coupling
Slip Coupling for Schedule 40 PVC Pipe
Product Listing PVC-Couples-Reducing

I was able to fit my corner trimmed, 60mm fans into 2" ABS couplers. I used a flush trim router bit to remove the inner "stop" ring in the coupler and it slid perfectly in.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

those links are great...thanks...


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Have any of you try to fit a 60 mm fan on a GPS car winshield mount like this one?










I happened to have one lying around, and I can attach a 60 mm fan easily with electric ties. The nice thing about the mount is that the fan can be directed to any which way. You don't need to drill a 1/2 inch hole through a glass since the base attaches to the glass with a very strong suction cup. Since I am using a aquarium tank for my vivarium, I can cut a tiny notch on the plastic trim to thread the wire through. What do you think?

You can find a car mount on Ebay for something like $3.99.


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## itsott (Nov 25, 2010)

I would be wary. Ive had a gps fall in my lap while driving so the suction can give way.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

itsott said:


> I would be wary. Ive had a gps fall in my lap while driving so the suction can give way.


Hmm, I can silicone the suction cup to the glass probably. 
The large suction cup on my husband's Sirius radio unit held up without falling for a few years, but due to aging, it falls periodically (like once a year) now. 

A friend of mine told me that I should use a rearview mirror mount with the special glue/double sticky tape. A rearview mirror rarely comes off the glass as you know, and it swivels as well.


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## Azriel (Jun 15, 2011)

Tomoko Schum said:


> Hmm, I can silicone the suction cup to the glass probably.
> The large suction cup on my husband's Sirius radio unit held up without falling for a few years, but due to aging, it falls periodically (like once a year) now.
> 
> A friend of mine told me that I should use a rearview mirror mount with the special glue/double sticky tape. A rearview mirror rarely comes off the glass as you know, and it swivels as well.


I have that same GPS windshield mount. I worked great for the first several months, but now it falls off every 5-10 minutes! 

I have also had a rear-view mirror fall off the windshield too, believe it or not!  Yeah it doesn't happen very often, but I just thought it was funny.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Azriel said:


> I have that same GPS windshield mount. I worked great for the first several months, but now it falls off every 5-10 minutes!
> 
> I have also had a rear-view mirror fall off the windshield too, believe it or not!  Yeah it doesn't happen very often, but I just thought it was funny.


Thanks. I am going to silicone the sucker to keep it from falling  .


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## itsott (Nov 25, 2010)

Take pics and let us know how it goes. Im gonna brave drilling and installing fans like dougs in mine.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Tomoko Schum said:


> Thanks. I am going to silicone the sucker to keep it from falling  .


silicone will stick to the glass...but it will NOT stick to plastic...be warned...maybe super glue, gorilla glue, or even hot glue...but the silicone won't...at least that is what I have read and partially experienced...


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Judy S said:


> silicone will stick to the glass...but it will NOT stick to plastic...be warned...maybe super glue, gorilla glue, or even hot glue...but the silicone won't...at least that is what I have read and partially experienced...


Thanks. I know that silicone does not hold plastic very well. 3M double sticky tape was my next choice. However, my plan changed a bit. 

The fan that I purchased has a built-in temperature sensor which regulates the fan speed based on the temp. Unfortunately the temp setting is too high for the purpose of circulating the air inside the vivarium. Its airflow at 70 degrees F was rather weak although it's capable of delivering close to 20 CFM at much higher temp. So I got a small squirrel cage blower from a friend of mine today. It's small and looks a lot like this:










I am ready to switch the fan tomorrow. The nice thing about this fan is that it has a small hook right on the top. I can hang it with a 3M Command mini or utensil hook from the glass top, allowing me to forgo the GPS mount all together.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

would love more information on this whole subject...and a "squirrel fan"?? What?? please keep us posted...especially the electrically and glass-drilling
challenged....the setup looks pretty easy...will the fan be a problem with moisture???


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Judy S said:


> would love more information on this whole subject...and a "squirrel fan"?? What?? please keep us posted...especially the electrically and glass-drilling
> challenged....the setup looks pretty easy...will the fan be a problem with moisture???


The squirrel cage blower should be just as good as a regular case fan. My case fan with the sensor is still chugging along without any problem with me spraying the heck out of my moss on the cork panel background nearby. 

I will keep you posted, Judy. I cannot drill or hammer anything straight myself. I have to ask my husband to do it for me cause all the screws and nails that I put in end up looking crooked. I can splice my wires without a problem using butt splices, though. 

As for drilling, I recently saw a good instructional video by Bulk Reef Supply. I cannot view the video right now since I am at work, but it might be this one. It shows you what you need (including the drill bit, inexpensive drilling support stand, and plumber's putty) and how to drill a hole on a glass aquarium.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Tomoko Schum said:


> Thanks. I know that silicone does not hold plastic very well. 3M double sticky tape was my next choice. However, my plan changed a bit.
> 
> The fan that I purchased has a built-in temperature sensor which regulates the fan speed based on the temp. Unfortunately the temp setting is too high for the purpose of circulating the air inside the vivarium. Its airflow at 70 degrees F was rather weak although it's capable of delivering close to 20 CFM at much higher temp. So I got a small squirrel cage blower from a friend of mine today. It's small and looks a lot like this:
> 
> ...


Could you post a link to where your friend found this fan?

Thanks!


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

frogfreak said:


> Could you post a link to where your friend found this fan?
> 
> Thanks!


My friend gets his fan from an ebay shop. Here's the link to the product:

1 Pcs Brushless DC Cooling Blower Fan 7525S 12V 7525mm | eBay

The shop is in China. My friend tells me that their service is good and all the fans that he got work very well. He uses them in his smokers (barbequing at a low temp) to circulate air inside.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Tomoko Schum said:


> The squirrel cage blower should be just as good as a regular case fan. My case fan with the sensor is still chugging along without any problem with me spraying the heck out of my moss on the cork panel background nearby.
> 
> I will keep you posted, Judy. I cannot drill or hammer anything straight myself. I have to ask my husband to do it for me cause all the screws and nails that I put in end up looking crooked. I can splice my wires without a problem using butt splices, though.
> 
> As for drilling, I recently saw a good instructional video by Bulk Reef Supply. I cannot view the video right now since I am at work, but it might be this one. It shows you what you need (including the drill bit, inexpensive drilling support stand, and plumber's putty) and how to drill a hole on a glass aquarium.


A squirrel cage fan will generally be louder than an equivalent case fan. Also, comparing a 20 CFM case fan (computer style) with a 20 CFM squirrel cage fan, the squirrel cage fan is going to move the air in a more forceful jet of air, rather than the case fan's more diffused current. I'm not saying that it won't work, just pointing out the drawbacks.

Have you looked into whether or not the adhesive used in double sided tape is a frog safe chemical?

You will easily drop $25 to $50 for your drill guide. Drilling glass freehand is very easy to do. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/78369-drilling-glass-my-first-attempt.html 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/58594-how-drill-your-glass.html


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

Pumilo said:


> A squirrel cage fan will generally be louder than an equivalent case fan. Also, comparing a 20 CFM case fan (computer style) with a 20 CFM squirrel cage fan, the squirrel cage fan is going to move the air in a more forceful jet of air, rather than the case fan's more diffused current. I'm not saying that it won't work, just pointing out the drawbacks.


The fan is quiet but its output is not very high. Just higher than the case fan with a sensor that I purchased from newegg. I am still trying to find the best solution. Do you have a recommendation for a good quiet case fan?



> Have you looked into whether or not the adhesive used in double sided tape is a frog safe chemical?


No, I have not. I suppose that I can talk to 3M about it. I suppose that I can use something like a Gorilla glue to glue the plastic tab to the glass top. Do you think that would work?



> You will easily drop $25 to $50 for your drill guide. Drilling glass freehand is very easy to do.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/78369-drilling-glass-my-first-attempt.html
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/58594-how-drill-your-glass.html


I wish I can drill straight without a support. I am afraid that I may crack 1/8 inch glass plate if I try to drill through it.


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

I have a mystery tank that came with one hole pre-drilled that I'm most likely going to use to install a mist nozzle. I won't be able to get a mister for a while though, so I'd like to temporarily use that hole to run a fan. 

Will it be possible to drill another hole in the tank down the road when I get a misting setup, or should that be done prior to setting up the tank? The background is done, but it's not planted yet.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Answers in red


Tomoko Schum said:


> The fan is quiet but its output is not very high. Just higher than the case fan with a sensor that I purchased from newegg. I am still trying to find the best solution. Do you have a recommendation for a good quiet case fan?
> 
> I use the one I list at the end of this thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/76581-pumilos-75-corner-viv-13.html
> 
> ...


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

freaky_tah said:


> I have a mystery tank that came with one hole pre-drilled that I'm most likely going to use to install a mist nozzle. I won't be able to get a mister for a while though, so I'd like to temporarily use that hole to run a fan.
> 
> Will it be possible to drill another hole in the tank down the road when I get a misting setup, or should that be done prior to setting up the tank? The background is done, but it's not planted yet.


Yes, but it's harder as you have to have somebody hold a rag up under the hole to catch any coolant and glass chips. REMOVE YOUR FROGS FIRST!! The noise will terrorize them!
Honestly, I would drill now and plug the hole with a cork or something until you need it.


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Pumilo said:


> Yes, but it's harder as you have to have somebody hold a rag up under the hole to catch any coolant and glass chips. REMOVE YOUR FROGS FIRST!! The noise will terrorize them!
> Honestly, I would drill now and plug the hole with a cork or something until you need it.


Haha I can only imagine that that would freak some frogs out!

Thanks for the info Doug, I will most likely try drilling it before anything more is done with the tank, but I wanted to double check that it's OK to do with the initial build stuff already done. 

I'm just nervous about cracking the glass!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

freaky_tah said:


> Haha I can only imagine that that would freak some frogs out!
> 
> Thanks for the info Doug, I will most likely try drilling it before anything more is done with the tank, but I wanted to double check that it's OK to do with the initial build stuff already done.
> 
> I'm just nervous about cracking the glass!


Get some scrap glass to practice with and don't force it. Let the bit do the work. Take your time and after your first hole you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.


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