# 12x12x18 vivarium set up



## YoungFrogs412 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hello everyone


I am housing 3 azureus froglets in this setup with a waterfall. So all I installed the zoomed natural cock tile background and used dap sealant to hold it in place. I still have long ways to go. Built a waterfall, add a false bottom, plants, egg crates, and gravel.

















*waterfall*; I am gong to use styrofoam coated with the gs foam and add cocofiber/mulch. Should or can I use polyblend sanded grout as my last layer? I am going to carve the styrofoam so I can guide the water to destinated area. 

Many of you guys like the silicon II by Ge. On the label it says not for use below the wate line, where fda compliance is necessary, or aquariums. I've read ppl do it anyways so I'm assuming its still safe.

Also I just read that the GS foam is one time use is expected.. Guess I will have bunch of random things to foam for future use :/ Maybe I'll foam up a few hiding places.

*Plants*; Bought some viola.. it was only 2 bucks for a pack of 6. Wanted to add some colors to my vivarium. This plant ok? Tried to look for hoya and peps but the people at homedepot couldn't find any. Will try else where. 
Can I add a sweet pitcher plant? Will it harm the frog in anyway? 
















If not I can leave the pitcher plant in there with a lid and a small hole for only fruitflies to crawl in, yea?
Any other small plants I can put in there?


----------



## KingSnake9 (Jul 14, 2011)

Nice tank and frogs


----------



## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Good idea to use the bio balls as your drainage layer. I don't remember if I have seen it done before. Sorry no experience with violas or the pitcher plant. I have never had much luck with moss personaly, though I know there are people who do.


----------



## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Are you planning on housing them in that tank for life? It's going to be too small for three azureus well before they hit adulthood... I'd recommend building up a 20 or preferably 29G in the next few months, switching these guys into it, and keeping the 12x12x18 around as a growout tank for the froglets they (hopefully) produce. Tincs/azureus can stress each other out pretty easily after the first few months of age, and they're also mainly terrestrial & won't climb a whole lot.

Not sure about the viola, as for the pitcher it depends on the type... a few varieties do well in vivs, but most of the common/cheap ones won't do too well long term. Try the classifieds/sponsors on this site, or go to your local garden store and ask if they have a "terrarium plants" section.... either way you'll find good viv plants, though you'll probably save some cash by going through the ads here.


----------



## jibfest (Dec 1, 2010)

I would set a good solid day or 2 aside and make good use of the search function, it will answer all your questions and more. But for starters I could not agree with tclipse more. Planning to house 3 Azureus in a tank that size is asking for trouble!


----------



## YoungFrogs412 (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks guys I was thinking the same!! I didn't plan to keep those guys in til adulthood. I was going to switch them out when they get older and then get a couple of leucs froglets. This 12x12x18 Vivarium is just a test for me on building a Vivarium with waterfall. Too small and I keep on staring at the tank and said no way, the three froglets is not going to last too long in there. I'm going to skip this project and do a 20 gallon long instead. I want to successfully conctruct a smaller Vivarium first and then go for a much larger one! I have an extra 55, 60 and 100 gallon tank. 

Yes I've been using the search button for the past week. It's very helpful!
Yeah I bought those cheap pitcher plants which never do survive that long. 

I will update once I get rolling!


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I would have done a better setup if I had that tank :/
You're gonna have to mist more...that background won't hold any moisture.
I agree with both tclipe and jibfest
You need to browse this forum more...
I have been a member for 6 months and have only done one build for my anoles...actually what you're doing lol but no bioballs but I think I might try that.
As tclipse said that tank is too small...I wouldn't sink anymore money in there till you got the right size tank, but hey if you got the money then go for it lol

Where did you get the moss?


----------



## YoungFrogs412 (Aug 8, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Where did you get the moss?


I got the moss in berkeley, east bay vivarium. Believe me I'm sure a lot of us do use the search button! But if I only use the search button and not post thread how would I interact with everyone  and how would my post count go up?  

Today I used the GS foam and made a new background and side for my 20 gallon long tank. Sprinkled some cocofiber in there and painted it with grey grout. Tomorrow I'm going to use the foam again to split my tank in 1/3 for the waterfall. Going to use the brown sealant over the foam and cover it with gravel. Im still going to use the bioball and place it around the pump.

Looking forward to it! I love the gs foam! Not to thrill about using the silicon because of the nasty smell. I just place a order online.. for vines/vivarim plants, springtails, fruitflies, coco hide huts, and some film cases.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

YoungFrogs412 said:


> I got the moss in berkeley, east bay vivarium. Believe me I'm sure a lot of us do use the search button! But if I only use the search button and not post thread how would I interact with everyone  and how would my post count go up?
> 
> Today I used the GS foam and made a new background and side for my 20 gallon long tank. Sprinkled some cocofiber in there and painted it with grey grout. Tomorrow I'm going to use the foam again to split my tank in 1/3 for the waterfall. Going to use the brown sealant over the foam and cover it with gravel. Im still going to use the bioball and place it around the pump.
> 
> Looking forward to it! I love the gs foam! Not to thrill about using the silicon because of the nasty smell. I just place a order online.. for vines/vivarim plants, springtails, fruitflies, coco hide huts, and some film cases.


Yeah the smell of silicone sucks...
It's best to put a layer of silicone down on the glass then spray the GS.
Why would you pant the cocofiber with grout?
In case you didn't know grout has high levels of pH and must be sealed.
So you're gonna have gravel stuck to the back of the tank? Or on the bottom?


----------



## Newtnerd (May 4, 2011)

It may not help you saying this considering you have already finished the background (minus the waterfall).... As dragonspirit mentioned, grout has a ph that isn't ideal for vivariums. It can be neutralized but it takes some work. Use the nifty search button  and you should be able to find some methods of doing that. Also, I don't know if you ended up using GE silicon 2 or went with something else, but there has been some debate as to whether it is safe for vivarium use. The product contains something called bioseal which actively fights mold after it has cured (as I understand it). There is a lengthy thread about this as well. I would post links, but I'm kind of writing this on the go.


----------



## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm going to try gorilla glue instead of silicon for covering the great stuff. I don't know if it works as well but my tank will be lower humidity than a frog tank.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Newtnerd said:


> It may not help you saying this considering you have already finished the background (minus the waterfall).... As dragonspirit mentioned, grout has a ph that isn't ideal for vivariums. It can be neutralized but it takes some work. Use the nifty search button  and you should be able to find some methods of doing that. Also, I don't know if you ended up using GE silicon 2 or went with something else, but there has been some debate as to whether it is safe for vivarium use. The product contains something called bioseal which actively fights mold after it has cured (as I understand it). There is a lengthy thread about this as well. I would post links, but I'm kind of writing this on the go.


Like Newtnerd said you have to neutralize the pH of the grout.
Search for "neutralization of pH in grout" or something along those lines

The GE II debate is so shifty lol.
Yeah the silicone has Microban in it but I don't see how a product that prevents mold can hurt anything. Maybe it prevents moss growth? If that is the issue it it covered by cocofiber, eco earth, peatmoss....whatever you use.
I need to go read it more lol
Many people have been using it for years until this debate began and nothing happened to their tank or PDFs

I have used gorilla glue for numerous applications and sometimes it doesn't hold that well and give you a good flexibleness like silicone....besides I wanna use colored silicone to mask the GS or anything else.


----------



## YoungFrogs412 (Aug 8, 2011)

I wanted to cover the cocofiber in grout to give it the grey/stone with bump kind of looks. Turn out some of my grout mixture was too thick and some had that bumpy texture look and some don't. Anyhow I put another layer of grout and sprinkle some cocofiber over it again. So I have that stone and dirt look.


Anyhow I read up that ppl use grout to make platforms for bearded dragon. Looks like I have to rethink everything because I didnt know about the PH problems.

*SILICON* Seems like there are thousands of debates about this! If you think out of the box, there was evidence stating ppl have used this for yrs and nothing occurs until someone brought up a whole new ideal that it would be toxic..Fact... ppl used it for yrs without problems.. SAME STUFF.Theory theres some micro whatever that kills the mold can harm your animal? How so??? like what most of the ppl said they used it without any problems for yrs. I didn't read too much into it but to me it sounds like the did we ever land on the moon story. anyways the label did say not recommended for use below water line.... 

Today when I was at home depot looking for plastics and glass to cover my vivarium I ran into SILICON for plastics. On the back says works well for aquarium. hmmmm.


Anyhow back to about my 20 gallon. I don't like the results.. The foam takes so much space it doesn't even look like frog paradise, more like frog motel. At least I got the length of the tank... I'm going to have to skip the fancy waterfall idea. Might even thinking about not having a background.. Maybe I'll put some stick against the the back and have some vines grow over it??


----------



## boabab95 (Nov 5, 2009)

couple things, and im sure most of this has been said:

-water feature will take up way too much space in that size viv, these frogs dont tend to use ponds as they are found in the middle of the forest
-viola and pitcher plant wont work, both need dormancy.
-as said, be sure to have atleast a 29gallon tank for them in a couple months...


----------



## Newtnerd (May 4, 2011)

YoungFrogs412 said:


> I wanted to cover the cocofiber in grout to give it the grey/stone with bump kind of looks. Turn out some of my grout mixture was too thick and some had that bumpy texture look and some don't. Anyhow I put another layer of grout and sprinkle some cocofiber over it again. So I have that stone and dirt look.
> 
> 
> Anyhow I read up that ppl use grout to make platforms for bearded dragon. Looks like I have to rethink everything because I didnt know about the PH problems.
> ...


Why are you passionately defending something that you obviously haven't researched much at all? Due to the fact that there hasn't been any real scientific research done on the effects of bioseal on anurans, we can't really come to any conclusions about it. However, it has been observed that it could effect the development of offspring. This hasn't been proven in any way, but there is no reason in my opinion to use a product that could potentially harm your animals, especially if there is a perfectly safe alternative.

The silicon you saw that said it was safe for aquariums is not what we're talking about here. You were most likely looking at aquarium grade silicon or GE silicon 1. Neither of these contain bioseal and are safe for our animals. No one ever stated that all silicon was unsafe :/


----------



## YoungFrogs412 (Aug 8, 2011)

Nertnerd- yes why not use an alternative if you question the product. I myself spent 30 mins in front of the silicon section debating what to get while browsing on the foam. I'm gettin mixed results and I know we are talking about silicon I and silicon ii, for bathroom and windows. BUT on the direction description it says not to be use below water line. I went ahead and bought silicon ii in brown colors anyways but I'm not going to submerge it just going to use it for background. Btw I'm not passionately defending anything, anyone or myself. This is a great forum with great ppl, whatever I read and whatever ppl give me suggestions, at the end of he day I make my descision.


----------



## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> You need to browse this forum more...
> I have been a member for 6 months and have only done one build for my anoles...actually what you're doing lol but no bioballs but I think I might try that.


I have to wonder why you're constantly giving out advice if you don't have any relevant experience with poison dart frogs...


----------



## YoungFrogs412 (Aug 8, 2011)

started out last week..



















Making the waterfall. 


























































Need to stick some more plants in the background and fix some of the areas where you can still see the GS Foam. 

I am far from being done here but just wanted to share what i've done so far. I like the waterfall and the little pond on the left side. No noise at all, well we see later on tonight when everything is quiet. For light Im only using a 18" tube plant light from home depot.

Plants: some live and spag moss, hoya snow caps, wandering jew, little red tree(i'll add that later) gold-tip spikemoss, pilea involucrat, and sarcoglottis sceptrodes.


----------

