# Green and bronze or El Cope?



## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

I seem to remember asking this question before, but I can't find where I asked it.

I have a breeding pair of large D. auratus, and I am currently unsure as to whether they are El Copes or Panamanian Green and Bronze. Until recently, this has not been a problem for me. However, this summer, they have produced many offspring, some of which are almost ready to leave the water. If I were to keep every single one of the tadpoles/froglets, I would have 7 auratus. This would be a bit too much for me, and it would create the possibility of breeding between siblings. So I am going to have to sell at least a couple of the tadpoles when they become developed on land. So, I think I need to get the adults identified if I'm going to sell their offspring. The adult auratus are the most camera-shy of my dart frogs, and so getting pictures of them is not easy. I will post a few of the best pictures I have here.

Male:









Female (not in breeding condition):









Female (in breeding condition):


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## ghostpilot (Dec 29, 2011)

They look like Panamanian Green and Bronze to me.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

Beautiful frogs, but it's almost impossible to tell the difference.
I have both el cope auratus and Panamanian turquoise and bronze and they look incredibly alike. And both morphs show variability in hue.

Do you know anything about who you bought those from and when you bought them? You may need to retrace your steps and start asking the person you bought them from, and then the person he got them from etc...

Good luck!


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## Phyllobates azureus (Aug 18, 2010)

frograck said:


> Beautiful frogs, but it's almost impossible to tell the difference.
> I have both el cope auratus and Panamanian turquoise and bronze and they look incredibly alike. And both morphs show variability in hue.
> 
> Do you know anything about who you bought those from and when you bought them? You may need to retrace your steps and start asking the person you bought them from, and then the person he got them from etc...
> ...


Thanks. I've talked to the person I bought them from, and he thinks they are Panamanian Green and Bronze, but he's not fully sure. He's going to ask the person who raised them and then email me back.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Here's my take on this. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Bocas Del Toro, El Cope, Gamboa and many more are all Panamanian Green and Bronze. They are all just site specific. So, unless you are sure they were collected in El Cope, they should be designated Panamanian Green and Bronze.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Reef_Haven said:


> Here's my take on this. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Bocas Del Toro, El Cope, Gamboa and many more are all Panamanian Green and Bronze. They are all just site specific. So, unless you are sure they were collected in El Cope, they should be designated Panamanian Green and Bronze.


That would be my take on it as well.
In addition, IME and with "most" of the people I have talked to, one of the El Cope characteristics is that they are very bold. The fact that yours are very shy makes me think that you should use the more generic Green or Turquoise and bronze label.


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## frograck (May 1, 2005)

Reef_Haven said:


> Here's my take on this. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Bocas Del Toro, El Cope, Gamboa and many more are all Panamanian Green and Bronze. They are all just site specific. So, unless you are sure they were collected in El Cope, they should be designated Panamanian Green and Bronze.


Basically, yes.


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