# Would this be an unsafe brom? (pics)



## charga (May 24, 2006)

Is this one of the unsafe broms not to be in a vivarium with frogs? Leaves are stiff with small spike on the leaf edge. Run fingers along leaf and it's smooth but go against it and it's resistant. I like the colors but don't want to risk it.










Thanx for responses


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Those are cypranthus (I believe...) or Earth Stars... People use them in vivs all the time... I don't think they like too much moisture though... Wait for more people to chime in before doing anything, cause I'm no expert. :wink:


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Those cryps are no problem at all for darts. 

If you have thumbs you can use even more heavily spined broms. One that I use quite a bit is N. pendula. It's got long stiff leaves and seriously sharp spines, and its definitely one of their favorites.


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## charga (May 24, 2006)

Excellent, and you guys gave me the name of the brom, cypranthus. That helps alot. Now I can goole search it and find out it's care. Thanx.....


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Cool. Except it will be easier if you google Cryptanthus :wink:


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Haha, I told you i was no expert!!! :lol:

Thanx Tim


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## charga (May 24, 2006)

It's cool, google got it with a correction so it got me on the right path.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

In the viv, crypts like bright light. It’s very hard to provide them with too much light. They will tolerate fairly low light though. They like well-drained open soil. Any sogginess will quickly cause rot. Watch out with coco fiber substrate as it can easily become too soggy for Cryptanthus. With the high humidities that we provide dart frogs with Cryptanthus can be mounted epiphytically. Just make sure not to pack a lot of sphagnum around the base. This can cause rot.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Here are two Crypts in my leuc viv. I’ve heard people complain that sometimes they see scratch marks on the sides of their frogs when they are housed with sharp spined broms. I’ve seen what look like scratches on my frogs before, but they have never amounted to anything.


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## charga (May 24, 2006)

Thanx for the Crypts tip. Gives me a good idea where I can mount them on the bark with spagnum moss.


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

I have one and so far its been no problem for my azureus. They even do most of their eating on/around it. 

Also my the coco mine is planted in stays pretty soggy, soggy enough that I have a hard time keeping most other plants alive in it, but the crypt seems to be thriving. I only have 60 watts over my 55 gallon too, which is low, but its doing great. It even flowered for me a few weeks ago and now I think it has a pup growing out of it! It has lost some of its red coloring though. 

Overall I think they're pretty hardy.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Chris,
I've always been under the impression that Crypts were bog plants, and I've postitioned them as such. I've never seen rot, and they grow and pup like crazy. Are certain variants less tolerant of dampness?


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Keep in mind that I’m not an expert on Cryptanthus. I have eight adult plants (all of which have been with me for over a year) and a few pups. I keep them both in and out of terrariums. The limited research that I have done indicates that the Cryptanthus species come from diverse habitats ranging from forest to savanna. I have seen no reference to these plants living in bogs, although many savanna like areas of Brazil are temporarily flooded during rainy seasons. 

Lets also keep in mind that almost all of the Cryptanthus that we see in culture are hybrids, and hybrids of hybrids. I imagine that like Phalaenopsis hybrids, it is impossible to say exactly how a Cryptanthus hybrid should be cared for. To add to the confusion on culturing these plants, most are tolerant of a wide variety of conditions. It is, therefore, possible for two different people to have success with the same hybrid under very different forms of culture. For general purposes evenly moist open soil (bark chips, LFS, leaf litter mixes, African violet soil, etc.) works well with these plants. They also like it bright. If the light is too strong they will bleach out, but this is difficult to do with fluorescent lighting. If the light is too weak they will turn green and they may get leggy.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that bog like culture is not optimal for these plants. My experience is that they tolerate water around their roots when the medium is very open (LECA for example). I would not plant these plants in mud and expect them to last. As we have seen though, your mileage may vary. 

One last thought, and I don’t mean to be insulting here, pupping does not always indicate good culture. This can be a stress response. If you were to pull the plant out of the viv and it had good roots, as well as good leaf growth and conformation, then I would say that the pups are a sign of good husbandry. That said, for most of our purposes, if it lives, it is doing well enough.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

*Towards an Objective Theory of Crypts...*

Well, first of all, to the individual who thought Crypts are bog plants, you may be thinking of the Asian aroid genus Cryptocoryne :wink: 

Cryptanthus ("Earth Stars") are bromeliads in the sub-family Bromeliodea (which includes aechmeas, bilbergias, neos, pineapples This sub-family of "hard leaf" plants is characterized by spiny edges. Frogs go in these things all the time; in Australia, Litoria aurea invade yards to live in the vicious-spined dyckias (maybe they are smarter than we think, as predators do not follow...) 

From Brazil, the earth stars usually grow as terrestrials, or in rock fissures or in the humus on fallen logs. They are not known to grow epiphytically, with their roots attached to exposed wood. In nature, they can range from the sun-loving C. warren-loosii to the softer, shade loving C.beuckeri, with spoon-shaped leaves. Many of the cultivars are forms and hybrids of C. bivittatus (e.g., 'Ruby') and the larger C. zonatus (the myriad forms with black and silver bands).

In terrariums, they do quite well with a well-drained mix: coco fiber works well if amended with some fir bark and/or tree fern fiber. Unrooted pups can adapt to very moist (well-drained) substrates, but be aware that plants grown "soft"--i.e., in very humid environs tend to develop thinner,softer leaves (no reason to protect against water loss). The brighter th light, the better the color--it is almost a direct correlation.
I know that some people insist on trying to mount these plants, for reasons quite beyond my comprehension (then again, I do not comprehend creationism, breast reduction, or zombie movies where somehow, dying seems to IMPROVE one's athletic ability...) There are more authentic bromeliad choices to consider for mounted culture. 

It seems that certain combinations exist that do not always make intuitive sense; just as kids are into Timberland and lot of keepers of neotropical pdfs tend to like the Asian jewel orchids. Similarly, it seems that some people who are into pdfs tend to like these Cryptanthus better than tillandsias; so be it. If you mount these in a humid environment, they may grow for a while, but as Chris says, flowering and pupping can be indicators of stress as m uch as good culture. 

For myself, I like these as natural foreground or center plants (and also because I have more robust herps than pdfs). Personaly, I would plant them in the substrate, and find other epiphytic bromeliads to mount. 

Some recommended choices:

bivittatus minor
beuckeri
zonatus
'Black Mystic'
'Cafe au lait'
'Chickadee'
'Marion Oppenheimer'
'Menescal' (expensive but beautiful)
'Ruby'
and a few Jim Irvin hybrids

Any of these can be seen at http://www.fcbs.org

Hope this helps


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