# ASN Participation Survey - Please Read and Vote



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

TWI is 110 members strong (at the time of posting), yet only a small percentage have submitted steward applications. To better understand this situation, ASN is looking to get some information from the hobby regarding the reasons some enthusiasts may be holding back from registering as amphibian stewards. 

Please take a moment to read the poll options and select the option that best describes your situation. If there is more than one option that describes your feelings, or your response is "Other" - please post in the thread with your thoughts or concerns. ASN would like to see this thread become more than just a "poll" - so please - respond with any comments you may have.

We thank you for your participation and help in making ASN a stronger program for amphibian conservation.

Rob "Oz" Ossiboff
ASN Committee


----------



## bobtpa (Aug 21, 2006)

I belong to TWI and I've looked into the ASN program. I've held back from signing up for the following reasons: I've only been keeping darts for about a year and a half and only really started expanding my collection and become serious about breeding in the last year or so, and I perceived the ASN as something geared more towards the very experienced breeders who were working with the "new/rarer" locations/species. I downloaded the handbook, a large 65 page pdf document, and found it a little overwhelming. I haven't been able to figure out what animals are required/desired for the program - if I knew I was working with anything that would be appropriate I'd sign up. Are all darts included, just some species, do you have to have detailed lineage info? Do I work with my own animals or would I need to acquire the "correct" stock from a current steward? Bottom line is I had so many questions that I couldn't find the answers to that I pretty much just put it on the back burner.
What I think would have helped would be 1) some contact info. For example, if I had known Oz was involved, I could have contacted him and asked questions. 2) Maybe a list with something like "we're actively looking for stewards to work with species A, B and C. 3) Develop a 1-2 page summary of the ASN program to explain the basics of what it is and how it works. 
It sounds like a great/important program and it would be great if it takes off. Bob


----------



## allanschon (Mar 25, 2007)

I was wondering about this very situation... Given the level of enthusiasm that abounds in the hobby, I was quite surprised at the apparent lack of interest.

One of the more common answers, at the time of my submission, at least, was "i don't feel qualified". To be frank, neither do I. That said; part of ASN's mission is the education of its stewards, and part of the reason I joined was that this would be one more place where I could learn better husbandry techniques and learn more about my frogs. As time passes, I will gain the experience I need. 

If you are interested, and the only thing that's holding you back is a perceived lack of experience; join anyway. You'll learn faster and help a great cause.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I will get involved and picked "I'm too busy to participate right now'. I hope to have some more fee time after the new year but lately my life has been nuts.


----------



## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

I just don't feel experienced enough to be a steward.... yet... :wink:

But I hope to join someday...


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Hey Bob - thanks for the questions - this is exactly what I was hoping for. I will try and address your questions to the best of my ability.



bobtpa said:


> I belong to TWI and I've looked into the ASN program. I've held back from signing up for the following reasons: I've only been keeping darts for about a year and a half and only really started expanding my collection and become serious about breeding in the last year or so, and I perceived the ASN as something geared more towards the very experienced breeders who were working with the "new/rarer" locations/species.


We need stewards from all levels of husbandry experience. The steward program has extra advantages for less experienced froggers - as you will be assigned a mentor who most likely will have more experience with certain aspects of the hobby than you do. You will then have the opportunity to form a great relationship with another frogger who you can turn to for advice/recommendations/or experiences.

Furthermore - all frogs have an important place in the program. The management of all species - not just the newest or most popular - is necessary to ensure the stability of the captive populations. How many P. vittatus do you see being offered for sale recently? Some of the Tinc morphs? D. auratus? There is distinct possibility that with all of the new frogs coming in, old ones may be lost. Therefore - even the most "green" frogger with their first group of "beginner" frogs can play an important role in the realization of the goals of ASN.



bobtpa said:


> I downloaded the handbook, a large 65 page pdf document, and found it a little overwhelming.


Yes - the full handbook can be a little overwhelming, just because of the great amount of info that is in there. However, there is a slightly "boiled-down" Pocket Guide version available Here that highlights some of the really important parts of the full handbook. After getting through the pocket guide, stewards can then make their way back to sections of the full handbook at a slower pace if need be.



bobtpa said:


> I haven't been able to figure out what animals are required/desired for the program - if I knew I was working with anything that would be appropriate I'd sign up. Are all darts included, just some species, do you have to have detailed lineage info? Do I work with my own animals or would I need to acquire the "correct" stock from a current steward?


I addressed some of this above - but just to make sure it is clear - all amphibians, not just dendrobatids, are included. The more info you have about the lineage of the frog - the better. But - some of that work will be done for you with the TMGs. Say for example - you know you got your D. variabilis from me - but don't know any more than that. The TMP details all of the populations in the hobby - and can identify where source frogs came from. Just by knowing they came from me - your frogs can be identified as F1 INIBICO Variabilis. 



bobtpa said:


> Do I work with my own animals or would I need to acquire the "correct" stock from a current steward?


Stewards do not need to acquire any additional frogs, and the only regulation regarding where the frogs come from is that they were obtained legally (i.e. no smuggling). However, as a steward - you may be entitled to working with ASN in conjunction with other institutions to help manage species at great risk. Additionally, as a hobbyist breeder - I want to see frogs I produce go to the most dedicated hobbyists who will maintain the frogs the way they should - therefore, I plan to give preference to ASN stewards when making frogs available.



bobtpa said:


> Bottom line is I had so many questions that I couldn't find the answers to that I pretty much just put it on the back burner.
> What I think would have helped would be 1) some contact info. For example, if I had known Oz was involved, I could have contacted him and asked questions. 2) Maybe a list with something like "we're actively looking for stewards to work with species A, B and C. 3) Develop a 1-2 page summary of the ASN program to explain the basics of what it is and how it works.
> It sounds like a great/important program and it would be great if it takes off. Bob


Thanks for the suggestions Bob. There are a number of committee members and current stewards on the board - and we have been trying to spread the word - but when there are so many threads on DB - many get lost as it is impossible to keep up with them all. 

ASN is looking for stewards to help with ALL amphibians - dart frogs, tree frogs, salamanders, caecilians, etc. 

The best place to find a brief description of the project and its goals is the ASN page of the TWI site: Here. 
If iit peaks your nterest, take a look through the pocket guide mentioned above. As for questions - I am sure that all members of the ASN committee as well as some of the current stewards would be more than happy to answer questions. I am available via PM whenever if you have any questions. Maybe some of the others familiar with the program will post and make themselves available for questions.

Hope this helps.


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

allanschon said:


> One of the more common answers, at the time of my submission, at least, was "i don't feel qualified". To be frank, neither do I. That said; part of ASN's mission is the education of its stewards, and part of the reason I joined was that this would be one more place where I could learn better husbandry techniques and learn more about my frogs. As time passes, I will gain the experience I need.
> 
> If you are interested, and the only thing that's holding you back is a perceived lack of experience; join anyway. You'll learn faster and help a great cause.


I couldn't have said it better myself - and you are absolutely right.

Those that join ASN very early in their "development" will hopefully find that being a steward will be an enriching endeavor that will only make them a better frogger.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

What is the process to add species? So for example if I were to sign up for some specific species what does it take to add more later.


----------



## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

kyle1745 said:


> What is the process to add species? So for example if I were to sign up for some specific species what does it take to add more later.


I've actually wondered the same thing, would be good to know.


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Registering to become a steward and then adding species are two different processes. On your steward application, you do list what species you are working with. However, to enter the animals into the system - you submit individual accession forms (either by groups or individuals - see here). They can be added whenever - and easily allows for some species to be added at a later time. For example - I have not entered all of my collection into the database yet - only my D. variabilis. (The rest of my frogs are soon to follow). 

So it can be very flexible.


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

kyle1745 said:


> What is the process to add species? So for example if I were to sign up for some specific species what does it take to add more later.


There are two parts to this. The species listed in the registration form are intended to allow evaluation of new and old stewards to place them in the correct experience level. These levels are necessary for figuring out which stewards would be the best fit for placing high priority animals should that become necessary. And will also assist stewards who which to offer animals within the network such as what Oz mentioned regarding giving preference to ASN stewards. The ASN committee is significantly revising the evaluation and level placement procedure based on early experience with applicants and hopefully those criteria will be finalized and posted soon. The idea is that as stewards gain additional experience, they can submit update registrations to provide new information to advance to higher levels.

That registration process is completely separate from accession forms which are how you actually add animals to the database. One accession form is submitted for each specimen, or breeding group and you may submit forms for any animals in your possesion regardless of whether they are listed on your registration.

To summarize, registering as a steward and registering (accessioning) animals are two separate things. You may accession any animals you have legally obtained regardless of what is listed on your registration or your experience level. And you may resubmit registrations to advance your assigned steward level (the details of which should follow soon).


----------



## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Ahhh haaaa! Thats so much clearer now.


----------



## defaced (May 23, 2005)

I'm pretty sure I'm already registered on the TWI site, but I've simply not done the leg work to become a steward. Now that I've got a better picture of what paperwork is involved, I will likely do it fairly soon.


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

A couple quite comments on Oz's excellent reply to Bob.

There is a bit of a chicken and egg issue with the mentorship program since we need enough stewards who can act as mentors before we can supply them. So we will likely not fully institute that part of the program until next July. So early adopters likely won't find a mentor name in their welcome packet. If having a mentor is an important part of why you would like to participate in ASN though, please contact any of the ASN committee members and we can set you up.

Page 1 of the full handbook contains contact info for all ASN Committee members and TWI Executive Committee members who were onboard at the time the handbook was release. We'll make sure contact info is added to the Pocket Guide. Also, you can email ASN "at" treewalkers "dot" org with questions.


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

i simply have not heard of the organization or know what it is, but i got some info from reading the thread. I been out of hte loop for a few years, since i been kinda laying low in the hobby due to lack of time, but they shoudl do something to get the word out a little better.


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Someday I will be....
Too many irons in the fire right now as it is though.

I haven't even gotten around to reading the ASN handbook yet.
I am a TWI member though.


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

We are at 227 views - and only 25 votes.

Everyone please take a second to vote.


----------



## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

And now well over 350...

Oz, views do not indicate unique viewers (I just clicked back and forth on the thread to prove that, 100 times...).


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Thanks Clay.... :roll: 

:lol:


----------



## Marty71 (Nov 9, 2006)

My vote was quite simply that I do not feel qualified, but after reading this thread and the thought out answers from Brent and Oz, it sounds like that is not a good enough reason. I have been overwhelmed with both frog related stuff (a small frog room that has and will require wiring, sheetrocking, insulation etc. as well as the more important demands of two kids and lotsa bills). I did briefly read through the ASN handbook when Brent introduced me to it re a thread on GO's vs. Regina's (sorry I fell off the thread Brent, your efforts truely are and were appreciated) but did feel somewhat overwhelmed looking at it. But if I can spend an hour browsing this forum, I probably have time to look at the guide....

Just signed up for TWI, I will complete my steward application by Friday. Thank you for your efforts here...

M


----------



## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

To everyone that said they were either too busy or didn't have time for extra work.. the only work that is involved is filling out the forms (the application, and then later the form to accession your frogs).. that's it, at least for now. Any work that would come after that would only be if we have enough stewards signed up in the TMP's, and if you have time to invest, but for now I wouldn't worry about that if that's what's holding you back.


----------



## TheDoc (Aug 8, 2007)

I First looked over the TWI site a few weeks ago when i read about it here,

I meant to ask a few questions but put in on the back burner for one reason or another, I would love to show my support for TWI but my family is on a single income Budget for the time being.

Is there restrictions on what you can join or do, if say you can only swing the "Contributing Member" Donation? 

My first thought on ASN was that i was unqualified, and wouldnt be able to contribute much, being fairly new to the hobby, But i love the cause and would love to help in whatever way i can. Even if it is very little.

I like the idea of Having a Mentor, I was just wondering if there where plans to assign Mentors to members that are in there general area. Being in Northern Idaho i dont know many Froggers in my imediate area. Only 2 members i have talked to come to mind.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Toooooo Busy and unorganized. Will do it sometime soon.


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

I voted that I am already a Steward and do support the mission.

....one 'problem' with the poll format is that it actually doesnt allow checking of multiple items, so while a few of the selections are not checked at all it doesnt mean they didnt apply to some folks, just that there was a single 'better' choice that had to be checked first. fyi.

so, I would rec folks take some time and make comments here re: their specific issues and also their 'needs'. I bet the TWI/ASN committee would be quite responsive.

Best,

S


----------



## porkchop48 (May 16, 2006)

I printed out and started reading the pocket guide. I sure it will answer some of my questions. But i will ask them here anyways.
I personally never heard of this before but would live to help out if i can. I only keep a small number of frogs and most are beginner frogs but would love to get involved in something like this. 
Im going to read the manual now and see if I have any more questions
Being that I am still anew frogger ( less than 3 years) would this be something I should do? Or should I wait until I am more experienced?


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

sports_doc said:


> ....one 'problem' with the poll format is that it actually doesnt allow checking of multiple items, so while a few of the selections are not checked at all it doesnt mean they didnt apply to some folks, just that there was a single 'better' choice that had to be checked first. fyi.
> 
> so, I would rec folks take some time and make comments here re: their specific issues and also their 'needs'. I bet the TWI/ASN committee would be quite responsive.


There is also a poll running on the TWI members forum with the same selections - but you can choose up to 3 answers to best describe your reasoning.

But - in this thread - your comments are and will be extremely helpful - so please keep them coming.



porkchop48 said:


> I personally never heard of this before but would live to help out if i can. I only keep a small number of frogs and most are beginner frogs but would love to get involved in something like this.
> Im going to read the manual now and see if I have any more questions
> Being that I am still anew frogger ( less than 3 years) would this be something I should do? Or should I wait until I am more experienced?


Kristy - see my comments above in response to bobtpa's post. Briefly - regardless of the amount of experience or the types of frogs that you work with - ASN will benefit from your participation, and we hope that you will benefit from working with us. Additionally, after 3 years, you have probably had quite a few experiences and some knowledge that a fresh hobbyist wouldn't have - so while you may consider yourself a "new frogger" - what your potential contributions to both the program and other froggers may say differently.


----------



## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I'm part of the ASN after being roped in by Chris to work on the pumilio TMG. To be honest, I didn't feel qualified either when I joined (heck, I still don't feel qualified :lol. I have had darts for just over a year now, and am still learning quite a bit about the husbandry side of things. I have researched quite a bit over my undergraduate career on amphibian conservation and especially dendrobatid biology.

My rationale for joining was A. regardless of what my experience, my money is going towards amphibian conservation, which is something I think is highly necessary now with the problems amphibians are facing all over the world and B. my experience, while still limited IMO, is more experience than what most people have had with these frogs.

I think that reason A is enough to join. I couldn't afford much, but I figure that every little bit helps. It's important to start monitoring our populations since many of what is in the hobby is threatened in the wild (look at terribilis and bicolor for example). And I figure that every little bit helps. The current stewards have limited experience with their frogs, so if others join, even beginners, simple observations can be made on their frogs to get a better idea of the species. 

It's for the frogs


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

MonarchzMan said:


> I'm part of the ASN after being roped in by Chris to work on the pumilio TMG. To be honest, I didn't feel qualified either when I joined (heck, I still don't feel qualified :lol. I have had darts for just over a year now, and am still learning quite a bit about the husbandry side of things. I have researched quite a bit over my undergraduate career on amphibian conservation and especially dendrobatid biology.


Here is a perfect example of why you don't need years of experience keeping frogs to help. JP is being modest. Chris pulled JP into the taxon management group on pumilio and JP has already drafted a very impressive outline of the various populations of pumilio in the wild. Trust me, this will be a valuable resource for froggers.

But just having more people and animals in the program demonstrates the tremendous potential in the private sector. I can pretty much guarantee that the combined amphibian collections of everyone who has participated in this thread would dwarf the amphibian collections of most zoos. Imagine what a message it would send if 10% of all combined ISIS amphibian holdings were attributed to ASN.


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

I'm not sure if the question about membership levels was ever answered but all levels receive the same benefits except for the length membership at the higher donation levels. We wish we could not require membership at all but that isn't practical for various reasons.


----------



## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

I have a question or two regarding the quarantine/treatment section of the procedures and guidelines.

- I see ASN stewards are required to meet Quarantine 3 standards which seems to only cover treatment of chytridiomycosis. Does this require that our accessioned animals be tested, all within our collection or just those that have a high risk (e.g. WC purchases). 

- Do those of us that test/treat for some intestinal parasites fall into a different category than those that turn a blind eye?

- Would TMG exchanges be required to have clean fecal results? If so how many and how recent?

- Will there ever be a benefit given to those that regularly test/treat? discounted prices?

- Should proof of test results be submitted?

- Regarding disposal requirements, all catagories are required to do things such as bleach wastewater and incinerate substrate etc?

- switching gears, is there a list of names/locality of other members that one can choose mentors from?

- The pocket guide mentions having access to the ASN database to efficiently locate suitable breeding stock/exchanges, how will this be accessed? and by whom?

I have many more questions, most of which get forgotten minutes after having them throughout the day. These should do for now... :roll:

EDIT: actually a quick re-read of the pocket guide helped with a few of these questions but feel free to respond.


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

bellerophon said:


> I have a question or two regarding the quarantine/treatment section of the procedures and guidelines.
> 
> - I see ASN stewards are required to meet Quarantine 3 standards which seems to only cover treatment of chytridiomycosis. Does this require that our accessioned animals be tested, all within our collection or just those that have a high risk (e.g. WC purchases).


No testing is required although that could change in the future if the problem of chytrid in captive populations increases. The quarantine procedures are guidelines only. They provide a good reference to what the Amphibian Ark considers as important so it gives stewards a good point of reference. But how ASN and AArk will cooperate is still being worked out. Much will depend on the level that stewards want to take things.




> - Do those of us that test/treat for some intestinal parasites fall into a different category than those that turn a blind eye?


Treatment of parasites is too controversial to be able to make solid recommendations in ASN at this point. Testing is another matter. There is no bright line that says that someone who tests for parasites automatically gets moved to a higher level. But listing that you routinely test for parasites would certainly gain points for husbandry practices and veterinary protocols and would weigh in your favor among other factors considered.



> - Would TMG exchanges be required to have clean fecal results? If so how many and how recent?


Not unless something changes. There is too much controversy over what a "clean result" even means or even whether it is desireable. The main focus of ASN right now is on genetic management to help people breed the numbers and genetic variety needed to retain wild characteristics of amphibians.



> - Will there ever be a benefit given to those that regularly test/treat? discounted prices?


Most discounts are going to be volunteer discounts by individual stewards. We have actually already seen vendors discounting animals for ASN stewards/TWI members and we hope this continues. Since those are exchanges of privately owned animals, ASN can't dictate the terms of the discount. For animals that are donated, loaned, or sold to ASN, the terms of disbursement will be on a case by case basis. My hunch is that discounts or preference for stewards who routinely treat/test will only happen when there is a clearly defined need for such a procedure for the animals concerned. Most likely the animals would come to ASN with a list of requirements attached and ASN would seek stewards who can best meet those requirements, the ability to treat disease possibly being one of them.



> - Should proof of test results be submitted?


Not at this time but that could change.



> - Regarding disposal requirements, all catagories are required to do things such as bleach wastewater and incinerate substrate etc?


Again, think of those more as guidelines and "best practices" that would align ASN more closely with AArk efforts. At the time the handbook was written, the whole concept of the private sector working within AArk was brand new. So we chose to write the guidelines as professional a possible but the next revision will be much more relaxed in terms of what is "required" vs. recommended.



> - switching gears, is there a list of names/locality of other members that one can choose mentors from?


There will be. Since we can't have mentors until there are enough stewards to act as mentors, that part of the program won't fully kick in until next July.



> - The pocket guide mentions having access to the ASN database to efficiently locate suitable breeding stock/exchanges, how will this be accessed? and by whom?


This is still being worked on as there are issues regarding open access vs. privacy that the whole ASN steward community needs to participate in addressing. My hope is that we can have a system where stewards and log in and browse the database directly. Other options would be for stewards to submit requests for search to TMG coordinators who would submit the query and act as intermediate contact between parties. A third option would be to have just one or two data managers with access to the database who responds to query requests. I favor the open system. Here are some links to records of my own animals if people would like to see what type of information they contain:

http://www.treewalkers.org/treeftp/GlobalConservation/ASN/public/Misc/specimen.pdf

http://www.treewalkers.org/treeftp/GlobalConservation/ASN/public/Misc/relation.pdf

Notice that my name does not appear in the accession ID or record unless as a note related to other information about the animals.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

bbrock said:


> Treatment of parasites is too controversial to be able to make solid recommendations in ASN at this point. Testing is another matter. There is no bright line that says that someone who tests for parasites automatically gets moved to a higher level. But listing that you routinely test for parasites would certainly gain points for husbandry practices and veterinary protocols and would weigh in your favor among other factors considered.


As a comparision, some institutions require fecal checks before animals are sent so they can determine if they want the animal treated before it is shipped, or so they can know the baseline data while other institutions do not require any testing at all. This shows that even institutions have standards that do not meet these standards. 





bbrock said:


> > - Regarding disposal requirements, all catagories are required to do things such as bleach wastewater and incinerate substrate etc?
> 
> 
> Again, think of those more as guidelines and "best practices" that would align ASN more closely with AArk efforts. At the time the handbook was written, the whole concept of the private sector working within AArk was brand new. So we chose to write the guidelines as professional a possible but the next revision will be much more relaxed in terms of what is "required" vs. recommended.


The item I would add here is that given that in some areas it appears that diseases are being transferred through pets or potentially wastewater, it may be in the best interest to pretreat the waste water.. but this is a tangent and should be in its own thread. 


Ed


----------



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

When it comes to steward actually registering/accessioning their frogs, is there a preference toward A) accessioning individual frogs, or B) accessioning breeding groups of frogs?

For example, if you were to register a group of 3-4 frogs under one accession, how would it complicate things if you were to later trade one or two individual frogs from the group? Would the original group accession need to be updated, or would another form need to be filled out and submitted to update records, etc?


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

skylsdale said:


> When it comes to steward actually registering/accessioning their frogs, is there a preference toward A) accessioning individual frogs, or B) accessioning breeding groups of frogs?
> 
> For example, if you were to register a group of 3-4 frogs under one accession, how would it complicate things if you were to later trade one or two individual frogs from the group? Would the original group accession need to be updated, or would another form need to be filled out and submitted to update records, etc?


Brent can respond to this better than I can, but since I recently asked him the same question, I can at least set him up.

If the frogs can be identified as an individual (as in they are in a breeding pair), it would be preferable if they were entered as individuals. In a group situation - it gets a little more complicated. Ideally, you would be able to identify individuals of the group phenotypically; however - that would be a tough call for many species (my quinq and zaparo groups come to mind). In this case, I think the current thinking is that they should be entered as group - but Brent should verify this.

As for the second part of your question - I know that it can be done - but I am not sure how Brent would prefer for it to be handled. 

It has been done retrospectively for one of my variabilis groups: It was a breeding 1.2, that was later split into a 1.1, and the extra female paired with another male. In this case, Brent made an accession for the old group, and then there is now currently an accession for each of the pairs - that links back to the original group accession.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

rozdaboff said:


> skylsdale said:
> 
> 
> > When it comes to steward actually registering/accessioning their frogs, is there a preference toward A) accessioning individual frogs, or B) accessioning breeding groups of frogs?
> ...


A notification of the change to the group needs to be made... this means that if the frogs are going to another group where they cannot be individually identified then the group would get a new number with the origins of the group noted in the comment section. The frogs you retained would keep the same group number unless you are able to individually identify the frogs (and identifying characteristics should be noted for the records). 
You should notify TWI so we could make the notes of the changes to the groups and the person recieving the frogs should notify TWI of getting them... If the don't notify TWI then the frogs would be deaccessioned and thier history could be lost. 
If people fail to notify of changes to the groups then it will quickly become unworkable... 

I think this answers the question. 

Ed


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

The questions about group accession I think were amply answered by Ed and Oz. There is a new forum topic on the TWI site addressing these issues as well which might prevent bogging down DB.

Basically though, if you know an animal as an individual, it should be accessioned as such. If you just know you have 2 females in a viv but don't know which is which, it is a group. And if offspring come from a viv that has 2 individual females, then both females are listed as dams of the offspring unless you know for sure which female is the real parent.

Modifying a group should be rather trivial but the forms have not been tested yet. Suppose you have a group accession on file for a group of 5 and you add another frog to the group. You could submit a record that contains only your steward ID, the accession number of the group, check the modification of an existing record box, put a 1 for the number of animals, and write a note that you added one animal. None of the other information is needed if we have the accession number.

Likewise, if you pull an animal out of a group and set it up as a pair with an existing animal. You submit a modification record to accession one animal as an individual and list the accession number for the group being modified. The updated accession record will then show that an animal was pulled from the group and is now individual XTWIXXX.

And we are working on ways to streamline the process at both ends to reduce the amount of work. One thing to mention is that you don't have to report everytime you make a little change. You can record those changes locally and report them in bulk periodically.


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

For those who have not heard of the Amphibian Steward Network before, you can find a list of threads where it has been mentioned:

http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... sn+steward


----------



## Rich Frye (Nov 25, 2007)

My vote ,"What is an ASN Steward" seems to be topping the poll with votes. Hopefully this thread and others like it will change that.

Rich


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

Thanks to everyone for the participation so far.

You're responses have been incredibly helpful in helping ASN understand what it needs to do better recruit stewards.

Please - keep the responses and comments coming.


----------



## somecanadianguy (Jan 9, 2007)

vote other 
my effort lvl and my bank account need to be alive and kicking on the same day, cant blame time or money cause i get some of both once in a while.i have intention of joining and going the steward route.in all honesty i mean to join but it slips my mind untill a thread like this reminds me.
craig 
ps out of curiosity how many canucks are twi


----------



## kristy55303 (Apr 27, 2008)

voted other as i have already submitted my application. Looking forward to getting the welcome packet. kristy


----------



## froggiefriend (Jan 4, 2008)

Sorry answered that wrong.. I am working on becoming a steward. I have my application.. just hoping to finish it in the next week or so.. 
sorry.
Kristin


----------



## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Oz

What is the membership # up to now? and where might TWI need more participation?

S


----------



## bellerophon (Sep 18, 2006)

I know the membership is a bit over 200 as of late. I'll leave Oz to fill in the rest


----------



## Brian Ferriera (Nov 1, 2006)

I am waiting on a few things before I take the leap. The most important thing is I need to get a more permeant residence so that I can have a frog room and keep them right. Where in a 2 bed room apartment right now and I don't really have the space to do more then the 1 tank. I understand that I really don't need have more then one tank to become part of ASN so that leads me to the second reason I haven't joined..I want to sell some frogs and use that money to do other things frog related including joining twi/asn buying take , racks , etc.
Brian


----------



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

> I understand that I really don't need have more then one tank to become part of ASN...


And don't forget that you can be apart of TWI without being part of the ASN--we have more going on than just the network. There are other ways to be involved with amphibian conservation that don't require you keeping PDFs, so don't let that hold you back.


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

sports_doc said:


> Oz
> 
> What is the membership # up to now? and where might TWI need more participation?
> 
> S


As Lee mentioned, total TWI membership is over 200 (209 I believe), and there are just over 60 registered ASN stewards. 

I think those steward numbers are very impressive considering that ASN started accepting steward applications just over a year ago.

There are lots of places that TWI needs help with volunteers. As Ron mentioned, TWI is more than just ASN. I think that is a point that is often overlooked on DB - just due to the nature of the community. 

Where does TWI/ASN/OFP need help -- all over the place  If you aren't a steward, then please consider becoming one. If you are a steward, then please accession your animals and keep the records up to date. ASN needs help with publishing TMPs on amphibian species. It is getting to the point that ASN needs to do more than recruit stewards, there needs to be active management of species. That is really one of the next big steps for the ASN program. There will also be chytrid testing for stewards that will need some regular volunteers to receive samples from stewards and ship them down to the diagnostic lab we are using. 

TWI could use some help with its membership drive recruiting new members as well as making sure that everyone's current membership is up to date. There is always need for volunteers to write and contribute material for Leaf Litter. 

It would also be great for anyone who is involved with the husbandry of amphibians other than dart frogs to spread the word about TWI and recruit other keepers who may not yet know about the program.

The easiest thing to do if you are a TWI member would be to post to the TWI forum and say "Hey - what can I help with". If you are a member and don't have access to the forum, let me know. 

Oz


----------



## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

TWI is also planning on having another informational chat session in the near future (next month or so).

Oz


----------



## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

rozdaboff said:


> It is getting to the point that ASN needs to do more than recruit stewards, there needs to be active management of species. That is really one of the next big steps for the ASN program.


For those interested, the cummulative accession report was recently posted on the TWI web site and can be downloaded here: http://www.treewalkers.org/treeftp/GlobalConservation/ASN/public/Misc/invdetail.pdf

The report can be a little difficult to read but there are a few species we have enough accessions that managed breeding programs could be developed. Some of the best groups to start with would be those with a fairly large number of wild caught specimens. There is a program calle MateRx (MateRx download page) which is designed to work with the accessions database to help with mate selections for breeding pairs. If it would be possible for someone to work with Lee to run a test case of this software, it would be a large leap forward for ASN.

Another area that will be a challenge but would be a great help would be the construction of breeding group webs (described in the ASN Handbook) for a test group of frogs. We now have over 1,300 specimens and around 50 species in the accessions database. But many of these records lack kinship relationship information. Breeding group webs provide a crude estimate of kinships by tracing a probable relationship based on the breeders who produced animals. We really haven't tested whether this tool could be used to reconstruct kinships within the accession database. If it can, it would allow tools like MateRx to be used more effectively on specimens for which kinships are currently unknown.

Moving from building and growing ASN to cooperatively managing breeding is the brass ring. It will be challenging but exciting.


----------



## Deathkitten (Oct 20, 2008)

PM'd you, Oz. Hope my skills can be of any service... =/


----------

