# Sphagnum moss, yes or no?



## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

I can't seem to get a clear answer on whether it is a good idea to use it or not. Some say definitely NOT because it is too acidic and will kill the frogs, and needs to be changes so often. Others say they love using it and haven't changed theirs out in years. I guess using sphagnum peat moss would be the same thing? I really need to know, because I have tomato frogs in a viv with sphagnum moss as the top layer right now, and I am setting up two more vivs to house dart frigs in and was planning on using the moss in them, too. It is the best thing for my plants so I want to use it. Everytime I recommend sphagnum moss to someone on another forum that I post on, someone else comes back and says they disagree, it is harmful. PLEASE help clear this up! thanks!


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Spagnium Peat is different than Spagnium moss. Spagnium moss is used extensively in the planting hobby, spagnium pead it used as a soil ammendment. For my soil I only use spagnium peat moss. It's very cheap and I've found it to work out quite well. As for spagnium moss I can't really say much. I've only just begun using it and haven't noticed anything significant.



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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Many people with frogs use long fiber sphagnum moss (New Zealand or Chilean) with great success and would recommend it over live moss. Others use leaf litter as the substrate layer. I have sphagnum moss in ~ 20 vivs and frogs, plants, etc. are doing well. The nice thing about at least New Zealand long fiber moss (I assume the same could be said for Chilean but have no direct experience) is that it tends to come back to life over time.

BTW, sphagnum moss and sphagnum peat moss are not the same thing. Sphagnum moss refers to the living moss on the top of the bog while the peat moss consists of the dead material below the live layer.

Bill


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Yeah, I know they are not the same. I meant if there was a problem with LFS would the problem be the same using peat. If there is a problem with the frog swallowing the spaghnum moss, I don't think it could swallow the peat. I grow carnivorous plants in my terrariums and they would not be able to handle anything else, so spaghnum is a must for me. People keep telling me that it is too acidic and that will kill the frogs, and that it goes bad very quickly and has to be changed often. (this is the people on The Frog Forum who say that). My dried moss is coming back to life in my tank. It looks pretty. I can get some higher quality stuff by ordering it, or get something that doesn't seem as good at a local nursery. I just don't see why some people say it is toxic, don't use it with frogs, and others say they use it with no problems.


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

I went to the Frog Forums and read the posts I believe you are referring to - while I agree that ingestion of moss (or any other debris) is not great for frogs, they will usually spit it out if accidentally engulfed (to your point on that forum). I have some RETFs in a viv with long fiber sphagnum that are doing fine. I do have some rather 'slow' lizards and snakes that don't quite seem to understand that dirt is not a dietary supplement though :roll: 

I believe the reference to sphagnum moss needing to be swapped out refers to quarantine containers where you don't have plants or substrate to absorb/recycle frog poop. In those cases one should replace the moss at some frequency (depending on number of frogs, size of container, etc.). No different than if you were using paper towels in those same setups.

Bill


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

I have used long fiber sphag, but not peat moss in my terraria. There is no reason why you couldn't use either. However, I have two warnings with these materials:

(1) Peat moss: some peat moss is packaged with fertilizer (I think Miracle Grow is marketing some of this), and this would be detrimental to the frogs. Since you grow CP's, I'm sure you are sensitive to this and know this already, but others might not.

(2) Long Fiber Sphag: I have talked to a few different individuals recently who have each had some frog die-offs from Long Fiber Sphag. The supplier was the same for both, and both had ordered from the same supplier in the past with no problems. So, it sounds like some fumigation process for importing LFC may have changed with some of the suppliers recently, and that is something to be aware of.

All the best,

Homer


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Thank you all for the comments. It makes sense about changing it out often if you have it in a quarantine container. I use paper towels in my quarantine containers, so don't need to worry about that. I have heard CP growers talk about opening a package of sphagnum moss and it smelling like fertilizer, so you need to be careful of that, but otherwise, it should be fine. That's what I wanted to hear. Thank you! I can order it from someone and the quality is great, and it comes back to life rather quickly. The only kind I can get locally is a lot cheaper, but doesn't seem to be as good of quality. It doesn't have a smell, though, and I haven't had problems with it yet, so hopefully it is good stuff. It just has a lot of "debris" in it, like sticks and twigs.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I have used both peat and long fiber with frogs with little to no problems however I would strongly recommend not using them for most caudates as this will cause osmotic problems for the caudates possibly killing the caudate. 
The only problems I have had with it is, the occasional ingestion of the long fiber in one case requiring a surgical intervention and when fecals are run on dart frogs kept on peat moss, they can pass a fair bit of peat in their fecals with no problems. 

Ed


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## back2eight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ed,

What is a caudate? The only caudate I know has a medical definition and is not related to frogs.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Salamanders and newts...

There are studies done on caudates, that have shown that acidic substrates are bad for most species (there are some that live in sphagnum that have no problems). 

Ed


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