# sawtooth grain beetles



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I've been experimenting a bit with culturing and feeding these out. They don't fly, same care as RFB's, breed at least as fast, and the adults are loved by my azureus. I haven't tried sifting out the larvae. I know people have had mixed results feeding out Rice flour beetle adults but I don't believe sawtooth grain beetles produce the same benzoquinones in defense.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm willing to try them

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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I'm still working with mine to figure out how well they will work...but their biology suggests they should do at least as well as RFB in culture. But they do have a couple neat perks.

-smaller than melanogaster FF's
-can't fly, do not seem to be able to climb slick surfaces either(just like RFB but unlike cowpea weevils)

I think when I get enough of these I am going to experiment with offering them to younger frogs/pumilio. Maybe they could provide a chitiny "beetle/ant substitute" for species to small to take bean beetles.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

Cool totally keep me posted. I would love to help eith this

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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I put them in my minifridge with my FF cultures to keep them warm. We'll see what happens. They like to climb up onto bits of paper similar again to RFB or BB so no need to sift them out.


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## Logqan (Sep 24, 2008)

I have had a deli cup of these for 4 years that I neglect. When I had mantellas they would eat them from time to time. They produce well. Mine is a mix of birdseed and flour about 3 inches thick. No matter the temp or how often I open the culture they just keep going.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Awesome...sounds like yet another good backup feeder.


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## frogmanchu (Feb 18, 2011)

Looks liks I'm going to need some of those. Always looking for feeders

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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Logqan said:


> I have had a deli cup of these for 4 years that I neglect. When I had mantellas they would eat them from time to time. They produce well. Mine is a mix of birdseed and flour about 3 inches thick. No matter the temp or how often I open the culture they just keep going.


4 years off the same culture???
Daaaaang!


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

i can clearly observe larvae in the flour-so it'd be easy to harvest both in this species. And no need to seperate the adults out!


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I'd be interested in giving these a go, I've been keeping an eye out for smaller beetles than the bean beetles. Lots of my little guys want a beetle but just can't stuff something that big down their throats! I don't see shorelinites around anymore, these sound like a similar alternative.

Shifting the adult beetles around in containers on a regular basis could get you cultures started to boom weekly. These would be a lot of fun to try! 

If either of you guys with them can start a culture down the line let me know  We need another good small beetle in the feeder hobby!


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## Hill (Jan 6, 2014)

I would love to try these beetles as well. 


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I split these into two cultures and it looks like I've got a new generation emerging. I have enough to spare a few starters...posted an add in the trading thread.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Dendrobait said:


> I split these into two cultures and it looks like I've got a new generation emerging. I have enough to spare a few starters...posted an add in the trading thread.


could you give a walkthrough of how to make the culture? I have no experience with confused flour beetles either...


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Here is what has been working so far.

Container
I've been using glass mason jars-large ones left after you consume a jar of Ralphs applesauce. I get ring-tops from either difference applesauce brands or pasta sauce brands(I've gotten a few funny looks putting jars head to head to insure they are the same size opening haha). I put 2 coffee filters over the mouth of the jar and screw the ringtop over it. Plastic containers used for FF's should work as well. I keep mine in a minifridge heated at this time of year by a small heating pad with my other bug cultures...the warmer they are the faster the lifecycle. 


I'm using a mixture of coconut flour, buckwheat flour and whole wheat flour-only because they were quite cheap at Winco and leftover from some semi-successful buckwheat pancake recipes of mine. Just about any flour based media will work. Some people who culture RFB's add brewers/bakers yeast to add additional protein but I do not know if they observe increased production this way. I put just a few inches in each jar. I add a coffee filter or a scrap of brown paper for the beetles to climb on...sometimes the larvae will pupate attach to the paper as well. Add adults from one of your other cultures. In about 2 weeks when you shake the container you should be able to observe both adults and larvae in the flour. The larvae will dig little round cells visible through the sides and sometimes they crawl up onto the paper as well. The pupae are covered with a little bit of silk and debris and often attached to the sides or the paper, they are not naked like RFB pupae. 

harvesting
These beetles are pretty easy to handle. Just take out the paper or coffee filter and tap it over your dusting cup or into a new culture.

HTH


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Some info on these guys: Sawtoothed and Merchant Grain Beetles, HYG-2086-97


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm puzzled how their lifecycle is quicker in Washington, DC. Was that a joke?


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

I received some and instead of putting them in a FF cup, I put them in a tupperware container. My thinking is that the beetles might be stuck at the bottom of 2-3" of flour in the FF cup, but in the tupperware container the flour is only 1/2" at most, so they shouldn't get stuck. Not sure if that is actually doing anything or not, but that's what I'm doing.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

That is a good idea-let me know how they do for you! They definitely prefer being in the top inch or so of the flour in the cultures. If you leave the flour undisturbed you will see mature larvae spin little puparia against the sides....one culture I have is absolutely riddled with those-I scraped a lot off the sides and stuck them in the flour for your starter.


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Anyone know of these *Grain Beetle Culture (Wheat Weavils)* at Wheat Beetles Culture for Sale (English) is the same species as the *Sawtooth Grain Beetles* being discussed in this thread? The Sawtoothed Grain Beetle, is identified as *Oryzaephilus surinamensis* (Sawtoothed and Merchant Grain Beetles, HYG-2086-97)


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

Sorry, I just answered my own question. Anyone had any experience culturing *Sitophilus granarius* for dart frog food?


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I know Ed experimented with these and you can find his comments somewhere in the forum.

I also got my hands on a few and played with them-but did not find them satisfactory enough to continue to bother with. 

~Joe


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I just got a report from a friend that his froglet Ranitomeya amazonica 'FG' absolutely mow down these things. That is pretty exciting! I wonder if pumilio juveniles will like them...

My cultures look to be booming again, so I may be able to offer some more of these beetles in another month or two. Unless I hold onto them and use them on any pumilio I rear.


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## Myrmicinae (Jun 30, 2014)

Do these cause the same allergy problems as RFB? Also, what are the temperature requirements? Does anyone know where these could be purchased?


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Myrmicinae: From what I've seen so far the sawtooth beetles don't seem to produce much airborne dust/crinkly exos. The mature larvae spin little pupal chambers so that seems to cut down on that. I haven't gotten cultures as dense as some RFB cultures get so I cannot make a fair comparison.

I should be able to spare some in the next couple months, depending on how many you want. Otherwise some of the folk who've gotten them from me should likely have them available shortly.

Also, anyone have any ideas on using different media for increased production? What is the most nutritious, yet inexpensive, dry medium out there?


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## Myrmicinae (Jun 30, 2014)

Thanks! I may want to purchase some from you when you have them available.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Anyone out there have any updates on how their cultures are doing?

I got another boom in one of my cultures with enough that I will be playing around with feeding some young pumilio with them.


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## clarksgeckos (Jun 8, 2014)

how did these work out with the pumilio? I am always looking for new food sources for our pumilio. Being that ours only eat insects melanogaster size or smaller, I am always up for any bug they will eat that are a good bit smaller than melanogaster flies.

Best regards,
Clark


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

They love em. They are sort of antlike in the way they slowly crawl around...really seems to get a response out of the frogs.


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