# leaf litter



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I have been sun baking (or tried to sun bake but the sun doesn't seem to want to shine) some maple leaves but see that most people use magnolia leaves. I picked up some magnolia leaves out of someone's yard here in my neighborhood (should have seen the homeowner peeking out their window at me putting their fallen leaves in a baggie) and took them home and boiled them in a pot of water for 30 minutes...they smell when they are cooking by the way. My question is, they are still green on one side (even after boiling) but can I still use them as leave litter?


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

Anyone? It is time to put the leaves in my tank so the springtails can get all cozy in it.


----------



## Greatwtehunter (Jan 8, 2008)

I have heard a lot of people bake them after boiling for about 30 mintues. You might want to try that.


----------



## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

I usually bake at 350º for about 25-30 minutes instead of boiling. I'd say if you bake yours for about 15-20 minutes at 350º they will be fine since you already boiled them. Just make sure they aren't baked for too long so they don't become brittle and crumble.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I know the guy I buy my leaves from dries them somehow, but as long as you are comfortable with where you got them from I would not worry to much about them. No matter what we do we can not sterilize everything we use in our tanks, and in some case like this the little critters on the leaves could make great frog food.


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

SWEET!! Thanks...the oven is already preheated from the dog bones we made for the dogs. I'll just go put them right in.


----------



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

I would add a few maple leaves as well...would be nice to have some varying levels of decomposition in there, and different types of leaves will help achieve that given the different speeds at which they begin to break down. Personally, I've been using a lot of alder leaves lately...


----------



## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

skylsdale said:


> I would add a few maple leaves as well...would be nice to have some varying levels of decomposition in there, and different types of leaves will help achieve that given the different speeds at which they begin to break down. Personally, I've been using a lot of alder leaves lately...


It also depends on why you are adding leaf litter. Oak, magnolia and almond leaves are used frewquently here because they break down relatively slowly and tend to have low nutrient levels, such as nitrogen and sugar. This is great if the reason you are adding leaf litter is for ground cover and shelter. The opposite is the case if you are using them to grow in tank microfauna. Th eleaves which break down quickly tend to be best for springtails, woodlice and mites. I read a paper the other where they fed isopods different kinds of leaves (oak, maple, etc) and the isopods grew the fastest on Alder leaves. It was suggested that this is because alder leaves have lots of available nitrogen, since alder trees can actually fix nitrogen (take it from the air and make it biologically useful). SO right now I'm waiting for the alder leaves to come out so I can go harvest a bunch.
-mark


----------



## divingne1 (Mar 21, 2008)

I have seeded the soil with springtails and I also what the frogs to have cover. I have some maple leaves sun-baking now (if the sun will ever come back out).


----------



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks for that info, Mark--I've been using them simply because I like the shape and look over maple leaves (you get some great whorls and varying structure in the LL layer with them, rather than the relatively flat/compressed structure of oak leaves). Good to know.


----------



## bruce (Feb 23, 2007)

I use mostly oak leaves (heated in a microwave oven) routinely. I have found using maple leaves they mat down too quickly and decompose the same and "soft" uncured leaves from the magnolia get "mushy" and smelly for me.
I believe were trying to get a "kinda" compost working it seems for vivarium floors. A forest floor has a "lightness" to it. I have used orchid bark minus the perlite in a pinch. I know when a mix works when springtails heavily populate the mix. 
Maple leaves and uncured magnolia tend to mat down, not allowing the substrate to "breath".
The trick as mentioned is to find the mix that is light enough to provide frog coverage and "wet" enough to encourage "food" to grow.


----------



## Matt Mirabello (Aug 29, 2004)

divingne1 said:


> My question is, they are still green on one side (even after boiling) but can I still use them as leave litter?





markbudde said:


> SO right now I'm waiting for the alder leaves to come out so I can go harvest a bunch.


In my experience I have only used leaves that were brown and fell off of the tree in the Autumn after completing all the physiological changes associated with leaf senescence. Leaves that fall off the tree green prematurely decay much faster than leaves that fall "naturally."

As was mentioned earlier leaves decay at different rates. this has to do with their nutrient content, ease of physical break down, and presence of inhibitory chemicals. Green leaves have chemicals that are meant to prevent herbivory by canopy insects versus ones that prevent decay after the leaf falls. Plants try to take out as many nutrients as possible from a leaf before it drops it, storing them in the bud for new leaf growth in the spring. 

The forest floor does get the occasional green leaf, but they do not last long and int he fall the forest floor is dominated by dry brown leaves. The layer of leaf litter that develops is driven by autumn leaves, not green leaves.

the occasional green leaf in the terrarium will be fine but to get a nicely functioning leaf litter layer "naturally" dropped leaves are the closest to what actually happens in a forest.

The nutrients in the leaves are important, but equally important is the refugia that the leaves provide for soil arthropods. If the leaves decay to fast you risk having fewer refugia and the arthropod population crashing. If the leaves decay to slow the arthropods may not have enough food/nutrients available to build up their populations. However I have never heard of this happening with the leaves people are using.


----------

