# The Precipice (Pic Heavy)



## toksyn

*The Tank*









*Tank Details*
36" W x 18" D x 32" H (~90 gallons)
1x 1.125" drainage hole at bottom center
4x 5/8" holes along top
Custom oak plywood stand

*Projected Inhabitants*
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"


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## toksyn




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## toksyn




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## toksyn




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## toksyn




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## toksyn




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## toksyn

More to come! Please feel free to leave some comments or questions .


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## r.avalos

This tank is gonna look so awesome, can't wait to see more. Definitely like how you showed us how you made this setup without having to write a explanation for it; show, don't tell. Nice looking pieces of wood by the way. Great job.


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## toksyn

Thanks . 



r.avalos said:


> This tank is gonna look so awesome, can't wait to see more. Definitely like how you showed us how you made this setup without having to write a explanation for it; show, don't tell. Nice looking pieces of wood by the way. Great job.


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## frogmanchu

That is truly amazing

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2


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## hawks66

im guessing you built the glass enclosure yourself?


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## toksyn

I did, indeed.



hawks66 said:


> im guessing you built the glass enclosure yourself?


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## IEatBugs

Looking quite nice. What part of FL are you in?


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## toksyn

Thanks! I think we've met at Mark's house in Sarasota (I'm Dev) - this is my personal account. I'm in Gainesville.



IEatBugs said:


> Looking quite nice. What part of FL are you in?


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## Blue_Pumilio

Dev, is that a cage you made? If so, nice!


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## IEatBugs

Sorry Dev! I had no idea it was you!


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## toksyn

It is, thanks!



Blue_Pumilio said:


> Dev, is that a cage you made? If so, nice!


No problem!



IEatBugs said:


> Sorry Dev! I had no idea it was you!


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## JPccusa

Very nice work. I will be following the progression for sure.


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## Azurel

Awesome work man.....

sent from my Galaxy S lll


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## Smoldy

Incredible so far


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## jacobi

Subscribed!!!!


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## pavochavo

WOW! That is going to be an amazing tank. So many of you all have such amazing skill with that stuff. I wish I had more creative ability in me!

Robert


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## toksyn




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## toksyn




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## Trickishleaf

What are the big green broms? This tank is nice! Can't wait to see it grow in.


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## toksyn

Thanks! Those are Vriesea vagans. The smaller ones are Vriesea erythrodactylon.



Trickishleaf said:


> What are the big green broms? This tank is nice! Can't wait to see it grow in.


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## Trickishleaf

They look amazing. How much water do they hold?


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## diggenem

Amazing build. I know it will look great when the moss grows in.


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## IEatBugs

What is the name of this one? It seems to be a slow grower for me.



toksyn said:


>


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## toksyn

It's Philodendron "Burle Marx Fantasy". It's a pretty slow grower in general.



IEatBugs said:


> What is the name of this one? It seems to be a slow grower for me.


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## ndame88

Looks amazing!!! I just got done putting foam on my 75 gal build and was thinking of doing something similar with the Hygrolon I bought, what did you use to attach it to the foam?

Thanks


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## toksyn

Thanks!

Gorilla glue is the best thing to use. Either drizzle it on the foam or pour some on your (gloved) fingers and just rub over the surface of the foam. Make sure you get a nice even layer. Leave it to thicken for about 20 to 30 minutes, but keep checking it periodically with a toothpick. What you're looking for is for it to get really aggressively tacky. The color should change from amber to nearly white at this point, and you may see some thicker areas foaming up a little. While waiting for it to set up a bit you can continue to try to even out thick areas - these areas will actually continue expanding and can foam through the Hygrolon otherwise.

Once it's ready, and it's quite obvious when it is, stick the Hygrolon down. Don't apply too much force as you don't want to squeeze the glue through the fabric. You'll have the best results if you start with one side and stick it down gradually, working away from the side. 

You can use something else, like Titebond III or silicone, but you'll have to use toothpicks or something to keep the fabric in place while they cure. You won't need to do anything other than wait and stick with the method that I've outlined. Additionally, Gorilla Glue (and to a lesser extent, Titebond III) are better to use than silicone for this application anyway.



ndame88 said:


> Looks amazing!!! I just got done putting foam on my 75 gal build and was thinking of doing something similar with the Hygrolon I bought, what did you use to attach it to the foam?
> 
> Thanks


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## ndame88

Thanks Toksyn, just ordered another sheet of Hygrolon this morning, not planning on covering the entire background, only about half way up.


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## frogparty

great build. Hygrolon is definitely the way to go. Mixed with cork like that looks excellent. Big fan of this build. Great plant choices too. Obviously I love the Racinaea crispa. My favorite viv plant


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## toksyn

Thanks for the patronage  (I am the founder).



ndame88 said:


> Thanks Toksyn, just ordered another sheet of Hygrolon this morning, not planning on covering the entire background, only about half way up.


Racinaea crispa might be one of my all time favorite plants. Really wish you were able to share some of that R. blassii you had once upon a time ...



frogparty said:


> great build. Hygrolon is definitely the way to go. Mixed with cork like that looks excellent. Big fan of this build. Great plant choices too. Obviously I love the Racinaea crispa. My favorite viv plant


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## frogparty

Yeah, Ive never regretted killing a plant more in my whole life. Lesson learned for sure. Luckily, I know the source it came from, through a middle man, so Im trying to get my hands on a few more. Ill keep you informed


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## toksyn

What happened when I changed my mind about the ventilation scheme:









What happened after leaving the Racinaea crispa in the tank:


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## frogparty

Sweet! One of mine is throwing a spike right now too!


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## SDRiding

I'm really loving that R. Crispa more and more. I see why it's a favorite for you guys. This might be a dumb question, but what exactly did you change about the ventilation system? It looked like it was mostly active internal air circulation.


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## eos

I'm loving this tank! Great work man!


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## toksyn

I originally had a closed, active internal air circulation system planned. I had a hunch that using some 40mm fans like I intended might not be enough to keep the front clear, and I was right. I didn't want to get larger fans so I opted to add "Sherman vents". 

Those vents keep the front more or less clear now, so I was able to reduce the fan count.



SDRiding said:


> I'm really loving that R. Crispa more and more. I see why it's a favorite for you guys. This might be a dumb question, but what exactly did you change about the ventilation system? It looked like it was mostly active internal air circulation.


Thanks 



eos said:


> I'm loving this tank! Great work man!


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## nilraf

What is the mixture with the moss, just re-hydrating or is there something in there to make it stick to the backing material?


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## nilraf

Where do you buy the Hygrolon from? It seems awesome and I would love to try some out in a new tank. Do you know if anyone has tried to buttermilk/moss growing technique with it?


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## whitethumb

this sponsor sells it http://folius.net/product-category/media/hygrolon/



nilraf said:


> Where do you buy the Hygrolon from? It seems awesome and I would love to try some out in a new tank. Do you know if anyone has tried to buttermilk/moss growing technique with it?


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## toksyn

The mixture is moss mix, also available from the website. It has only been hydrating, and has been "buttered" onto the Hygrolon. Think of applying the moss like spreading chunky apple sauce.



nilraf said:


> What is the mixture with the moss, just re-hydrating or is there something in there to make it stick to the backing material?


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## toksyn

It's been only two and a half weeks, and there is definitely some activity in the moss mix:


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## Nismo95

Are you using anything for the hygrolon to actually wick from? or just the normal misting to take care of it? I really am a huge fan of this setup.


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## toksyn

Thanks! I'm using misting, just twice a day. There are 8 MistKing nozzles in the tank (two quads). Humidity stays between 85 and 90 over a 24 hour period. 



Nismo95 said:


> Are you using anything for the hygrolon to actually wick from? or just the normal misting to take care of it? I really am a huge fan of this setup.


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## Yuley

Im thinking of doing something similar. Since it will be a while before i get my Mistking do you think regular hand misting would still do the trick for the hygrolon/moss mix?


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## toksyn

It will so long as you keep up with it and don't have too much ventilation to where it can dry out completely between mistings. Also, be sure to use RO/DI or distilled water.



Yuley said:


> Im thinking of doing something similar. Since it will be a while before i get my Mistking do you think regular hand misting would still do the trick for the hygrolon/moss mix?


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## toksyn

*Oophaga pumilio "Puerto Viejo"*









Had a change of plans - this tank will be the home of some Oophaga pumilio "Puerto Viejo". The "Black Jeans" will be getting a different tank.


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## Nismo95

toksyn said:


> *Oophaga pumilio "Puerto Viejo"*
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> Had a change of plans - this tank will be the home of some Oophaga pumilio "Puerto Viejo". The "Black Jeans" will be getting a different tank.


Holy smokes!! Those are some gorgeous frogs!! I loved the tank until I saw these, now I'm more sold on the inhabitants! Haha stunning viv still


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## toksyn

Thanks, Brandon 



Nismo95 said:


> Holy smokes!! Those are some gorgeous frogs!! I loved the tank until I saw these, now I'm more sold on the inhabitants! Haha stunning viv still


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## Nismo95

Just the pair or possibly a trio? A viv that big could definitely house more than two 😋 I just got rid of our 36x36 today and removed a pum pair. Was definitely large for the pair. I plan on moving them to an 18x18x24.. Make it easier on me when catching youngsters lol


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## Blue_Pumilio

Nismo95 said:


> Just the pair or possibly a trio? A viv that big could definitely house more than two 😋 I just got rid of our 36x36 today and removed a pum pair. Was definitely large for the pair. I plan on moving them to an 18x18x24.. Make it easier on me when catching youngsters lol


Yep, you need a trio. Hahahahahaha...enjoy the frogs! They appear bold so far, I guess we'll find out!


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## toksyn

Just the pair, hopefully they raise a family .


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## Toxic

Wow! Those are absolutely stunning frogs. Any updates on the viv?


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## toksyn

Updates will be posted once I take some more photos. The moss mix is greening up very nicely, obvious roots from some plants. Some dieback too, unfortunately.


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## Trickishleaf

Great choice on inhabitants! They look like Mini red Terribilis. 

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Yuley

The hygrolon I bought and had arrive is more like a fabric... But looking at your pics it doesn't look like that? It's it the wrong stuff?


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## toksyn

It is essentially a specialized synthetic fabric and should look the way it does in the photos. Please send a PM to folius for continued support .



Yuley said:


> The hygrolon I bought and had arrive is more like a fabric... But looking at your pics it doesn't look like that? It's it the wrong stuff?


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## rigel10

Great choise of frogs! Puerto Viejo are simply stunning!


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## toksyn




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## ZookeeperDoug

Anyone with any info where to acquire Racinaea crispa, feel free to PM me. I'd love to give that plant a try.


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## toksyn




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## frogparty

Those Vriesea are looking fantastic!! Love how this has grown in


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## toksyn

Thanks . I'm liking where it's going too, it's just incredibly difficult to restrain myself from adding more plants in the meantime. Eg., I've been really wanting to add some Pleurothallis leptotifolia. Fortunately for me, I don't appear to be able to find it anymore.



frogparty said:


> Those Vriesea are looking fantastic!! Love how this has grown in


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## frogparty

toksyn said:


> Thanks . I'm liking where it's going too, it's just incredibly difficult to restrain myself from adding more plants in the meantime. Eg., I've been really wanting to add some Pleurothallis leptotifolia. Fortunately for me, I don't appear to be able to find it anymore.


I have that one! When it throws keikis I'll send you a few


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## toksyn




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## frogparty

Getting better all the time!!!!!


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## toksyn

Thanks! 



frogparty said:


> Getting better all the time!!!!!


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## frogparty

I saw the P. leptotifolia on eBay this week if you're still looking.


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## toksyn

I saw it too, but I restrained myself. 

... then got some Lepanthes. Sigh.



frogparty said:


> I saw the P. leptotifolia on eBay this week if you're still looking.


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## frogparty

Ha!!!! Bound to happen!!


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## iRyan

Not to get off topic but could either of you recommend good eBay vendors as far as plants go? I've been trying to slowly extend my plant knowledge/husbandry skills.


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## Yuley

Hi Mate. 

Could you name these for me?





























Would be appreciated


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## toksyn

Sure thing. In order: 

Marcgravia sp.
Riccardia sp.
Masdevallia erinacea (with some Peperomia emarginella around it)



Yuley said:


> Hi Mate.
> 
> Could you name these for me?
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> Would be appreciated


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## Yuley

toksyn said:


> Sure thing. In order:
> 
> Marcgravia sp.
> Riccardia sp.
> Masdevallia erinacea (with some Peperomia emarginella around it)


Thanks Mate,

Im assuming you have to keep Riccardia pretty damn moist?... Would that be an aquarium species? 
My moss has also started to take from the hygrolon. Taken a lot longer but infact only installed the GroBeam 600 a week ago (which is when it started to grow) You sure do need good light. What lights are you using? Sorry if you mentioned

Looks absolutely amazing. Well done. the frogs too


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## rigel10

How Riccardia works in viv? I tried this long ago in my fishtank, but the plant (nice first) soon shattered into a thousand pieces and disappeared. I would know if Riccardia remains compact in viv.


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## toksyn

Thanks . The Riccardia is kept moist but is also in some airflow provided by a small fan. It isn't an aquarium species - it is not Riccardia chamedryfolia as far as I know. It stays as little pillows for me so far.



Yuley said:


> Thanks Mate,
> 
> Im assuming you have to keep Riccardia pretty damn moist?... Would that be an aquarium species?
> My moss has also started to take from the hygrolon. Taken a lot longer but infact only installed the GroBeam 600 a week ago (which is when it started to grow) You sure do need good light. What lights are you using? Sorry if you mentioned
> 
> Looks absolutely amazing. Well done. the frogs too





rigel10 said:


> How Riccardia works in viv? I tried this long ago in my fishtank, but the plant (nice first) soon shattered into a thousand pieces and disappeared. I would know if Riccardia remains compact in viv.


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## whitethumb

ditto on that!



iRyan said:


> Not to get off topic but could either of you recommend good eBay vendors as far as plants go? I've been trying to slowly extend my plant knowledge/husbandry skills.


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## rigel10

Thank you. Mine was chamedrifolia. I like the look of "lichen", maybe I'll try in the next viv. Greetings


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## toksyn

Have an exciting update today!










They shouldn't be accidentally neglected this time, which means I might be able to grow some pups!


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## frogparty

Very nice!!!!


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## toksyn

The second *Racinaea crispa* is blooming, and its spike is even larger than the first's despite being a smaller plant.










The *Begonia sp. "Tarapoto"* has been cut in half and the top was planted next to the mother. It's putting out very nice growth, and the growth pattern is also quite pleasing. Nice, tight leaf internodes, red margins, and hairy leaves.










I tried very hard not to add additional plants but lost that fight. There were just some bare areas that I got impatient about, and I also wanted to add some more drama with the ledges by planting pendulous orchids. My excuse was that I think there is not enough foliage to coax the frogs to be out more.

*Lepanthes calodictyon*









*Pleurothallis palliolata*









*Lepanthes caprimulgus*
Already in spike.









*Dresslerella caesariata*
The pendulous plant with the large leaves is the species highlighted.


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## rigel10

Wow, this plants addition is wonderful!


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## toksyn

Thanks! 



rigel10 said:


> Wow, this plants addition is wonderful!


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## frogparty

Excellent inflorescence on the crispa!!!


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## toksyn

Thanks, I thought so too.  



frogparty said:


> Excellent inflorescence on the crispa!!!


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## ninjazx777

Looking very nice you have given me some new ideas. Do you have any pics or a link how you built the enclosure? I would like to build one similar but a little bigger 48"x18"x24"


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## markpulawski

Nice Dev, my crispa spiked, threw a pup and then they both died, I have since added 2 more in the big tank and removed all oak leaf ficus. I love those Vrisea, I was told they like high humidity but mine rotted out pretty quick. Let me know if you want a Begonia amphioxus, I have 2 rooted pots and will be driving up 75 by Gville around 1 or so, could drop one off if you could meet me.
Great tank by the way.


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## toksyn

Thanks.  I didn't log the construction of the enclosure itself, unfortunately. I would recommend taking a look at http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...tructing-euopean-type-vivarium-step-step.html and looking for Sherman vent on the forum. 



ninjazx777 said:


> Looking very nice you have given me some new ideas. Do you have any pics or a link how you built the enclosure? I would like to build one similar but a little bigger 48"x18"x24"


Thanks, Mark, and thanks for the offer. Sorry about your bromeliads. I think the trick for me is forced air circulation. My B. amphioxus is doing alright so I think I'll pass . 



markpulawski said:


> Nice Dev, my crispa spiked, threw a pup and then they both died, I have since added 2 more in the big tank and removed all oak leaf ficus. I love those Vrisea, I was told they like high humidity but mine rotted out pretty quick. Let me know if you want a Begonia amphioxus, I have 2 rooted pots and will be driving up 75 by Gville around 1 or so, could drop one off if you could meet me.
> Great tank by the way.


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## frogparty

All Vrieseas I've tried in vivs and had do well have been high up nearer the lights, where they dry out readily between watering. Usually stick to V. Racinaea but also like corcovadensis.


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## toksyn

I'm a big fan of Vriesea racinae and am looking for more because I'm too impatient to wait for mine to pup.


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## Manuran

toksyn said:


> I'm a big fan of Vriesea racinae and am looking for more because I'm too impatient to wait for mine to pup.


Vr. racinae usually flowers, puts out one pup and then the original plant dies. 
At least that's what my plants have always done. So if you want multiple plants you have to plant the seeds or buy a bunch of them. The good thing is that you only need the one plant to get seeds.
If you take good care of the seedlings then you'll have nice looking plants in about 18 months.


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## frogparty

I get all my V. Racinaea from Michaels. He always seems to have several in stock


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## Klaby

The brown mush on hygrolon is chopped moss? If so, what kind it is?



toksyn said:


>


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## toksyn

It's actually moss mix, and it's composed of a bunch of different species as well as sphagnum. Unfortunately I don't know the exact composition. 



Klaby said:


> The brown mush on hygrolon is chopped moss? If so, what kind it is?


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## Klaby

Thank you for your response. 



toksyn said:


> It's actually moss mix, and it's composed of a bunch of different species as well as sphagnum. Unfortunately I don't know the exact composition.


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## tomer.baron

inspiring!


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## toksyn

*Lepanthes calodictyon*









*Lepanthes caprimulgus*


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## rigel10

I've always loved Lepanthes, my favorite orchids.


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## markpulawski

toksyn said:


> I'm a big fan of Vriesea racinae and am looking for more because I'm too impatient to wait for mine to pup.


Hey Dev Tropiflora should have 10+ still available for sale, they were on their VIP list this week and they had a ton of them, I picked up 3 on Wednesday. If you wanted to order some I could pick them up for you and my son can bring them up next week during the FSU/UF game, he will be there for a couple of days.

ps they also had a bunch of R crispa but since I did not get any not sure if they have them left or not.


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## frogparty

Vriesea racinaea is also always available from Michaels.


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## markpulawski

Yes but I can't drive 5 minutes and pick them up from Michaels which is the only reason I mentioned them, that and that fact my son Michael is driving to Gainesville next Friday....Michael's Bromiliads, my son Michael, a member named Toksyn, me thinks sorcery is at play.


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## Dartfrogfreak

How about an updated full tank shot?
Also do you have a full plant list of what is in there?


Todd


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## Julio

looks pretty sweet, what's your lighting setup?


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## toksyn

Thanks for the offer! I did buy three more R. crispa from them and I saw the Vriesea. I'm going to wait on the Vriesea for a bit as I need to set up more space to accommodate them. 



markpulawski said:


> Hey Dev Tropiflora should have 10+ still available for sale, they were on their VIP list this week and they had a ton of them, I picked up 3 on Wednesday. If you wanted to order some I could pick them up for you and my son can bring them up next week during the FSU/UF game, he will be there for a couple of days.
> 
> ps they also had a bunch of R crispa but since I did not get any not sure if they have them left or not.





Me too  




rigel10 said:


> I've always loved Lepanthes, my favorite orchids.



Soon... 






Dartfrogfreak said:


> How about an updated full tank shot?
> Also do you have a full plant list of what is in there?
> 
> 
> Todd




I've got four 26W LED spot lamps, each 6500K mixed with 3000K or red and blue LEDs. An 18" T5HO supplements the back wall. All of this is temporary really but it's giving me good results. I need to back down the spots a tad as the Vriesea are a little cooked. Moss loves the light though, particularly sphagnum. 




Julio said:


> looks pretty sweet, what's your lighting setup?




Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## markpulawski

Sorry Dev but I just trade marked The Precipice...you will need to change your thread title, or pay me every time someone looks at it.


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## toksyn

Coincidentally, I just trademarked "trademark" and "trade mark". My lawyer will be in contact shortly.



markpulawski said:


> Sorry Dev but I just trade marked The Precipice...you will need to change your thread title, or pay me every time someone looks at it.


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## hydrophyte

Nice orchids!

I want to do something like this in a small tank for sa fossorial or terrestrial tarantula. I think that would be cool. This kind of branch configuration would make a very nice representation of branches fallen down on the forest floor.


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## toksyn

Well, after doing some emergency deparasitization on a prize fern (unrelated to this tank), I discovered that the Vriesea vagans and at least one Vriesea erythrodactylon are infested with scale / mealybugs (yes, both) that had apparently survived the bleaching. I will be removing all of the Vriesea from this tank.

I hear it may be possible to switch genus to prevent reinfestation? Otherwise, I suppose I'll need to go without bromeliads for a while and try to starve off the crawlers. 

Any recommendations on species Neoregelia? I'm leaning toward N. tarapotoensis to maintain that predominantly green look. I'm not really stuck on pure green, but I do want to preserve the green-leaves-with-dark-base look if I can ...

I'll also need some offsets ...

Conversely, I suppose I can try going without for a while if people have experienced them jumping to another genus.

Such a disappointment. They were pupping and everything.


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## frogparty

Neo pendula is a great species Neo!


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## toksyn

Agreed! I do have that but they tend to get ridiculous stolons... 



frogparty said:


> Neo pendula is a great species Neo!


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## andersonii85

Can't really say anything positive about switching genera and ending up ok on the bug end. However, if you decide to give it a try I'd recommend Aechmea organensis. Very compact, and has the dark base look you are going for. Plus, it's an easy one to grow and cheap. It tends to not get that soft brown scale that some of the Vriesea's get but it will get that annoying black scale.


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## toksyn

Thanks for the recommendation and warning. Perhaps I will just go without for a bit.



andersonii85 said:


> Can't really say anything positive about switching genera and ending up ok on the bug end. However, if you decide to give it a try I'd recommend Aechmea organensis. Very compact, and has the dark base look you are going for. Plus, it's an easy one to grow and cheap. It tends to not get that soft brown scale that some of the Vriesea's get but it will get that annoying black scale.


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## frogparty

It's my experience that mealy and scale don't discriminate..... From orchid to brom to succulent and cacti. Kill with fire and repeat


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## toksyn

Nothing else appears to be affected quite yet. Hopefully it stays that way. 



frogparty said:


> It's my experience that mealy and scale don't discriminate..... From orchid to brom to succulent and cacti. Kill with fire and repeat


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## hydrophyte

I have never observed scale to be that specific. 

You should use a CO2 bomb, then lather, rinse and repeat.


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## rigel10

I agree with Frogparty: Neo pendula is a great choice as a decorative brom.
Also I have discovered nemerteans in a viv and slug in another viv whose plants I have sanitized with bleach and water. Damn!


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## Spaff

frogparty said:


> Neo pendula is a great species Neo!


Jason, can it grow in a viv?


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## toksyn

I grow this species, and N. mooreana, outside of vivs and I'm fairly confident that they should do fine. They just get leggier than I would like. 



Spaff said:


> Jason, can it grow in a viv?


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## frogparty

toksyn said:


> I grow this species, and N. mooreana, outside of vivs and I'm fairly confident that they should do fine. They just get leggier than I would like.


LOOONG stolons, but otherwise reliable
I had a pendula in a tank for 2 years before I lost it to the rack collapse. Good color the whole time. As a disclaimer, I tend to keep my tanks drier than most froggers do


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## jckee1

I have had much better luck growing mooreana in a pot in a window. I keep my tanks on the humid side. Always rot. You are right, they do have long stolons.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2


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## 30994

I really like how you used the hygrolon. Just curious to if one was to use this on their background and it touches a water source, will it wick and rot plants out? Or does it maintain some kind of water to air ratio that won't kill plants that are attached to it? I tried searching but couldn't find a straight up answer on its wicking abilities and if it will over water. I see people attaching broms to it so I guess it can't wick enough to rot?


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## frogparty

It wicks, but allows excellent airflow and breath ability. I especially like it over matala filter pad, where the potential for transpiration of roots is greatly increased


----------



## toksyn

Thank you, Jason. You explained it very well, very succinctly. 



mendowallace707 said:


> I really like how you used the hygrolon. Just curious to if one was to use this on their background and it touches a water source, will it wick and rot plants out? Or does it maintain some kind of water to air ratio that won't kill plants that are attached to it? I tried searching but couldn't find a straight up answer on its wicking abilities and if it will over water. I see people attaching broms to it so I guess it can't wick enough to rot?





frogparty said:


> It wicks, but allows excellent airflow and breath ability. I especially like it over matala filter pad, where the potential for transpiration of roots is greatly increased


----------



## frogparty

It's what I use for literally all my backgrounds now


----------



## toksyn

All of the Vriesea erythrodactylon and Vriesea vagans have been removed to combat a scale infestation that survived bleaching. Don't forget a surfactant when bleaching plants ...










*Lepanthes saltatrix*









*Lepanthes calodictyon*









*Pleurothallis allenii*









*Riccardia sp. and Racinaea crispa*









*Racinaea crispa*


----------



## frogparty

Scale is the absolute devil. Scale and mealy... Sorry bro!!


----------



## fishman9809

I had this massive specimen of Neofinetia falcata that is now a slowly dying mass of green due to scale. My condolences for you and your horrible problem. Hey! How's the M. tecta doing by the way?


----------



## whitethumb

did you bleach the crispa? if so, did you bleach in ro water?


----------



## toksyn

Thanks. Best of luck with your neo . The M. tecta is doing alright, growing very slowly. 



fishman9809 said:


> I had this massive specimen of Neofinetia falcata that is now a slowly dying mass of green due to scale. My condolences for you and your horrible problem. Hey! How's the M. tecta doing by the way?


I did bleach the R. crispa. I presoak in DI water, then do a 5% / 20 minute treatment. I don't forget to add detergent now (regular dawn, non-antibacterial). The most important thing is to rinse really, really well afterward.



whitethumb said:


> did you bleach the crispa? if so, did you bleach in ro water?


----------



## whitethumb

how much detergent? what is the detergents purpose?


----------



## toksyn

I add a few drops per gallon. The detergent is a surfactant - it reduces the surface tension of the water so that pests with a waxy or otherwise hydrophobic protection will no longer have that protection. Often it's enough to just use the detergent and soak the plants (or spray it on). The bleach just makes it more certain and cleans off other nasties. 



whitethumb said:


> how much detergent? what is the detergents purpose?


----------



## epiphytes etc.

An even better way to do it is to submerge the plant overnight in the surfactant, then directly to the bleach without rinsing in between.


----------



## rigel10

Detergent? Surfactant? Could you be more specific?


----------



## toksyn

I suppose I was a little unclear. I add the detergent with the bleach, they aren't separate steps.


----------



## rigel10

No, you were clear, but I did not understand what kind of detergent. Soap?


----------



## toksyn

Ah Rigel sorry I was addressing the post by epiphytes. Dawn dish soap is what I used. There are specialized surfactants like Tween 20 but detergent works as well. Not doing tissue culture so I don't think it's that critical. 



rigel10 said:


> No, you were clear, but I did not understand what kind of detergent. Soap?


----------



## rigel10

Thank you very much. I did not know this and I will do the same in the future, putting a few drops of dish soap in bleach and water.


----------



## frogparty

ivory snow is a very popular choice. its the flake soap (hence the snow) and readily dissolves into a sprayable solution in warm water. Very cheap compared to liquid soap..... but unless youre commercial sized operation the price delta is negligible


----------



## Giga

You bleach ur orchids too?


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## whitethumb

i bleach my orchids


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## frogparty

everything gets bleached!!! orchids and delicates get a 5% soln. Robust broms etc get a 10%


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## Giga

frogparty said:


> everything gets bleached!!! orchids and delicates get a 5% soln. Robust broms etc get a 10%


Good to know I've never bleached my orchids in fear of losing them.


----------



## frogparty

Soak them in DI H2O first!!! Very important!


----------



## Giga

Also good to know but I have rodi should work


----------



## frogparty

Same same.


----------



## hydrophyte

In my experience a 10 minute soak in bleach solution will do hardly anything at all for tough insect pests like scale and mealybugs. 

I use a product made from neem oil to get scale. I've never found anything that can get mealybugs very well.


----------



## toksyn

Did you use a surfactant with the bleach? The trick is to cut through the wax 



hydrophyte said:


> In my experience a 10 minute soak in bleach solution will do hardly anything at all for tough insect pests like scale and mealybugs.
> 
> I use a product made from neem oil to get scale. I've never found anything that can get mealybugs very well.


----------



## hydrophyte

toksyn said:


> Did you use a surfactant with the bleach? The trick is to cut through the wax


Yes, I have used dish soap. 

These insects hide way down in the leaf axils. Depending upon the kind of plant it can be very difficult to reach all of them.


----------



## frogparty

There are predatory insects available to combat scale and mealy.
I'd be very interested in trying out these for tank warfare. Should be especially effective if the tank is uninhabited by frogs


----------



## Yuley

Sorry to derail from the current topic. Re your Crispa. Mine is finally starting to bloom (its a cluster and has around 4 pups) One of the pups is starting to bloom.

With my very limited experience with plants nevermind crispa will the plant die after blooming? will it ever bloom again? Is there any info you could share with me?

All the best. And sorry about the nasties

Liam


----------



## toksyn

No problem. I don't think it will bloom again. Mine appears to have died after blooming but is making pups. 



Yuley said:


> Sorry to derail from the current topic. Re your Crispa. Mine is finally starting to bloom (its a cluster and has around 4 pups) One of the pups is starting to bloom.
> 
> With my very limited experience with plants nevermind crispa will the plant die after blooming? will it ever bloom again? Is there any info you could share with me?
> 
> All the best. And sorry about the nasties
> 
> Liam




Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk


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## frogparty

R. crispa bloom once, then pup and die.


----------



## whitethumb

will the crispa pup many times before it blooms? normally how long does it take for a pup to start pupping?



frogparty said:


> R. crispa bloom once, then pup and die.


----------



## frogparty

In my experience, they bloom, throw 1-3 pups then die.


----------



## Amphinityfrogs

wow. Great looking viv. How have I missed this thread. Good job.


----------



## toksyn

Thanks! 



Amphinityfrogs said:


> wow. Great looking viv. How have I missed this thread. Good job.


----------



## Puff

very awesome indeed!


----------



## whitethumb

so crispa doesn't usually pup until it blooms? 



frogparty said:


> In my experience, they bloom, throw 1-3 pups then die.


----------



## whitethumb

so r. crispa doesn't usually start to pup until it blooms?



frogparty said:


> In my experience, they bloom, throw 1-3 pups then die.


----------



## toksyn

That's been true for me.



whitethumb said:


> so r. crispa doesn't usually start to pup until it blooms?


----------



## frogparty

For me they've always bloomed, then pupped


----------



## whitethumb

thank you! really great thread you have here! just out of curiosity, do you know how long it usually takes from pup to bloom?


----------



## frogparty

2 yrs for me


----------



## toksyn

Updates!




























Sorry if you guys are tired of seeing Racinaea crispa, but it's one of my favorites and they are doing so well!


----------



## frogparty

Nice!!! That moss is getting RI-DONK-ULOUS!!!
Which Lepanthes is that? Great veination


----------



## toksyn

Thanks! I have to trim it to keep it contained, haha! The Lepanthes is L. saltatrix.



frogparty said:


> Nice!!! That moss is getting RI-DONK-ULOUS!!!
> Which Lepanthes is that? Great veination


----------



## Spaff

Dev, do you have the R. miniata you posted in the bloom thread in this tank as well?


----------



## toksyn

I do not, it's in a 40GB growout.



Spaff said:


> Dev, do you have the R. miniata you posted in the bloom thread in this tank as well?


----------



## Spaff

Ok. How does it compare in size to crisp?


----------



## toksyn

This particular form is a bit larger. I have some other forms that are much larger, exceeding a foot in height. 



Spaff said:


> Ok. How does it compare in size to crisp?


----------



## Cuthbert

This photo is from post #6. Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the charcoal is here? (At least I think that's charcoal.) Is it just for filling the gaps before laying down the filter fabric? And if so, why charcoal? Or does it also perform some sort of filtration role? Or something else?

I think this is a spectacular viv, by the way!


toksyn said:


>


----------



## toksyn

Thank you! 

The charcoal is being used as a gap filler for the elevation change on the filter mats and between the filter mats and the front glass. I like the appearance of the charcoal over LECA / hydroton / hydroballs. I also hope that it acts as somewhat of a filter for the water that drains out - keep any odors at bay. I don't know how long it will be effective (if at all), but the water that drains out of this tank is inoffensive aside from the heavy tannin content. 



Cuthbert said:


> This photo is from post #6. Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the charcoal is here? (At least I think that's charcoal.) Is it just for filling the gaps before laying down the filter fabric? And if so, why charcoal? Or does it also perform some sort of filtration role? Or something else?
> 
> I think this is a spectacular viv, by the way!


----------



## Nismo95

Any chance for a up to date FTS?  Would love to see how its growing in


----------



## toaddrool

Wow!! I love this tank!! The leveling effect is awesome. Great moss growth too. Congratulations!




toksyn said:


> All of the Vriesea erythrodactylon and Vriesea vagans have been removed to combat a scale infestation that survived bleaching. Don't forget a surfactant when bleaching plants ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Lepanthes saltatrix*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Lepanthes calodictyon*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pleurothallis allenii*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Riccardia sp. and Racinaea crispa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Racinaea crispa*


----------



## toksyn

Thanks!

Updated FTS coming soon .



toaddrool said:


> Wow!! I love this tank!! The leveling effect is awesome. Great moss growth too. Congratulations!


----------



## toksyn

As promised!

*FTS*









And the rest:


----------



## Dartfrogfreak

Looking good!
What is the Gesneriad looking plant?


Also is that a Marcgravia I spotted on the background?


----------



## toksyn

The potential Gesneriad was a volunteer, and yes, that's Marcgravia in the background .



Dartfrogfreak said:


> Looking good!
> What is the Gesneriad looking plant?
> 
> 
> Also is that a Marcgravia I spotted on the background?


----------



## toksyn

*Pleurothallis allenii*


----------



## toksyn

Updates!

I did a lot of cleaning and added bromeliads again (hopefully no scale this time).

*Before Maintenance*


















*After Maintenance*


----------



## frogparty

Lookin good!


----------



## nelcadiz

Veey very nice!, I love the mini orchids!, I have some Epidendrum porpax and the leaves are very tiny.
How are the pumis?


----------



## toksyn

Thanks! They are doing great, fat. I haven't heard calling yet but they do seem to be hanging around each other more, and are more visible now. That's the biggest reason I put bromeliads back in.



nelcadiz said:


> Veey very nice!, I love the mini orchids!, I have some Epidendrum porpax and the leaves are very tiny.
> How are the pumis?


----------



## dedman

Just curious, the moss that you used - where did you get it, and when you "buttered" it was it just wet or was there some additional adhesive that you used. Awesome tank BTW great build thread to learn from.


----------



## toksyn

Thanks! It's moss mix that I offer (Folius). It was mixed with DI water.



dedman said:


> Just curious, the moss that you used - where did you get it, and when you "buttered" it was it just wet or was there some additional adhesive that you used. Awesome tank BTW great build thread to learn from.


----------



## Dr Christopher McHale

toksyn said:


>


First things first, AMAZING.

Secondly, the purple guy with green spots...

What is that and where do I procure one?


----------



## Dartfrogfreak

Looking great!


----------



## toksyn

Thank you! The purple bromeliad is Neoregelia "Domino". I removed it pretty quickly - it's one of the few hybrids that I like, but I didn't like it in this particular vivarium. I may use a cluster of them, and only them, in another vivarium. It's a fairly slow grower and so it tends to be pretty uncommon - Tropiflora and Michael's Bromeliads may have a few. I know that the latter did a few weeks ago when I visited them.



Dr Christopher McHale said:


> First things first, AMAZING.
> 
> Secondly, the purple guy with green spots...
> 
> What is that and where do I procure one?


Thanks!



Dartfrogfreak said:


> Looking great!


----------



## amgini

toksyn said:


> Updates!


Amazing looking viv!

What's the name of the vine in the middle going up to the top of the image?


----------



## frogparty

looks like Selaginella uncinata


----------



## Broseph

The moss in this tank looks like green clouds or pillows. So cozy! 

Also, I think the linear placement of the new broms is bold, but it really defines the ledgy-ness of the wall over the ground. Thumbs up!


----------



## toksyn

Thanks! It's Selaginella sp. "Colombia". I have banned S. uncinata from my tanks, it gets way too crazy.



amgini said:


> Amazing looking viv!
> 
> What's the name of the vine in the middle going up to the top of the image?





frogparty said:


> looks like Selaginella uncinata


 It was definitely risky, but like you said (and as the name of the build states), I really wanted to create a cliff wall. I'm glad you found it effective!



Broseph said:


> The moss in this tank looks like green clouds or pillows. So cozy!
> 
> Also, I think the linear placement of the new broms is bold, but it really defines the ledgy-ness of the wall over the ground. Thumbs up!


----------



## amgini

toksyn said:


> Thanks! It's Selaginella sp. "Colombia". I have banned S. uncinata from my tanks, it gets way too crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty cool looking. Where did you get it from?


----------



## toksyn

It's a species I got from Manuran.



amgini said:


> toksyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! It's Selaginella sp. "Colombia". I have banned S. uncinata from my tanks, it gets way too crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> It's pretty cool looking. Where did you get it from?
Click to expand...


----------



## whitethumb

what kind of vriesea is that on the right? how big is it? thank you



toksyn said:


>


----------



## toksyn

It's Vriesea erythrodactylon, and it's maybe 10" tall.



whitethumb said:


> what kind of vriesea is that on the right? how big is it? thank you


----------



## whitethumb

would you guess about 10" wide as well? thank you



toksyn said:


> It's Vriesea erythrodactylon, and it's maybe 10" tall.


----------



## toksyn

That sounds about right.



whitethumb said:


> would you guess about 10" wide as well? thank you


----------



## radiata

toksyn,

I finally made it through your whole "The Precipice" thread. Thank you for the inspiration! I don't know if you'd classify the original design as "shelving" or as "caves", but I think it does wonders to increase the livable cubic inch space (vs. livable space blocked off from frogs) in your vivarium. 

Regards,
Bob


----------



## toksyn

Thanks, Bob!



radiata said:


> toksyn,
> 
> I finally made it through your whole "The Precipice" thread. Thank you for the inspiration! I don't know if you'd classify the original design as "shelving" or as "caves", but I think it does wonders to increase the livable cubic inch space (vs. livable space blocked off from frogs) in your vivarium.
> 
> Regards,
> Bob


----------



## dendrorani

Very nice looking viv and orchids. More pictures of pumilio though!


----------



## toksyn

Ask you and shall receive 



dendrorani said:


> Very nice looking viv and orchids. More pictures of pumilio though!


----------



## zimmerj

Yeah toksyn, excellent work! Your build has given me tons of inspiration for my build. Now I just have to wait until you get some more hygrolon and moss mix back in stock.

I am planning to use LECA underneath my false bottom though. Do you guys find that it's still a good idea to put in a drainage port even when using LECA?


----------



## toksyn

I like a drainage port because, unless the port / plumbing gets blocked or your drain reservoir gets full, water cannot stick around to get to substrate level and / or get stagnant. I think that the water percolating through the substrate and draining out also pulls air into the substrate, keeping it fresh.

Ultimately though, it's for my convenience. It's much simpler for me to empty a bucket every now and then than to siphon water out of the tank. This is particularly important if I am messing with the misting schedule and intentionally / unintentionally create monsoon conditions.



zimmerj said:


> Yeah toksyn, excellent work! Your build has given me tons of inspiration for my build. Now I just have to wait until you get some more hygrolon and moss mix back in stock.
> 
> I am planning to use LECA underneath my false bottom though. Do you guys find that it's still a good idea to put in a drainage port even when using LECA?


----------



## zimmerj

Thanks. The mini orchids are very cool too. Are they difficult to keep or can a newbie succeed with them? They aren't cheap so I've been weary


----------



## rigel10

Your pums are stunning!


----------



## AlexMak

We need an update!! Please!


----------



## bautzen

How is the Lepanthes caprimulgus doing?
I considered adding it to my tank but was afraid that it needs low temperatures. What temperature have you in your tank?


----------



## Dawna

Love it! Subscribed!

Dawna


----------



## toksyn

Update!







































bautzen said:


> How is the Lepanthes caprimulgus doing?
> I considered adding it to my tank but was afraid that it needs low temperatures. What temperature have you in your tank?


The Lepanthes caprimulgus was doing great, but it has since died. The reason for the lack of updates is that I've discovered a terrible snail infestation in this tank that is probably destroying any eggs produced by the eggs and wreaked havoc on all of the orchids.

There will likely be no further updates on this tank until it goes through a full reset, after which it will likely turn into a plants-only tank. Thanks for all of the comments though!


----------



## zimmerj

Oh man, that's such a bummer! It was looking so awesome.


----------



## urbanjungle

toksyn said:


>


Hi, nice build whats the blue stuff called? can i find it on eBay?


----------



## zerelli

urbanjungle said:


> Hi, nice build whats the blue stuff called? can i find it on eBay?


You can use Poret, Welcome to SwissTropicals - SWISSTROPICALS sells it in the USA


----------



## toksyn

urbanjungle said:


> Hi, nice build whats the blue stuff called? can i find it on eBay?





zerelli said:


> You can use Poret, Welcome to SwissTropicals - SWISSTROPICALS sells it in the USA


It's Matala, available at Matala - Folius Enterprises LLC.


----------



## urbanjungle

toksyn said:


> It's Matala, available at Matala - Folius Enterprises LLC.



All good brought some hydrolon. Ended up being cheaper to ship from the uk. 
Just going to add some egg crate behind it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

