# Recent frog losses, please help!



## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

In essence, I am still pretty new to pdf's, having done this seriously for only 2 yrs or so. I have learned some things the hard way, and changed my husbandry practice when evidence proved there was something wrong. I have had a few things happen recently that I fealt I needed to find out what was going on. So, here we go...

Recently, I lost two mint terribilis. These frogs were completely healthy and I had them for over a year. They were always out and really active. I noticed I hadn't seen them out for a little while, and didn't think too much of it, but one day I was poking around just to check in on them and noticed both looked very different. One was much thinner, not crazy thin, but it didn't look good and was not overly active. The other looked really obese, but was still active. At this point I also noticed there was a lot of FF in the tank still from the previous feeding. This was upsetting, and so I took them out of their tanks and put them in separate isolation tanks. Neither seemed to eat, and a few days later, both died. I did some reading up on bloat, and I thought the other frog may have been stressed out by it's overweight companion. This was really tough, both these frogs were some of my favorites.

Next, I have a pair of azureus that have been very prolific. I seem to be pulling a clutch of eggs out per week. I have had success with some of the early tadpoles, who are doing great and are sporting some front leg buds. Later tadpoles have not fared so well. In fact, I've lost every one of them. I stopped using dechlorinated water and started buying spring water from the store. I don't overfeed, I progress them to larger size containers as they grow...I don't know what I am doing wrong. I was always under the impression that raising tads was easy, yet it seems to be the hardest part so far. One last detail is the parents are related, and I have long wondered if I needed to separate them and form two groups. I was also told that inbreeding in pdf's is not as genetically detrimental as it is in humans, and in fact they do fine for several generations of this (not that I am planning on breeding any more siblings, but I'd rather not have to get another pair if I don't have to). And no, I have not sold any offspring, so if there is an issue, I can hold onto them.

Finally, on a lesser level, I have a tank where I keep my extra plants with no frogs in it (so no frog's lives at stake) that seems to have some form of a fungus in it or something. It looks like powdered sugar or snow, something like that. It just appeared over the last few weeks. Now, it is separated from the rest of the frogs, out in my garage, and interestingly enough, I keep the light on all the time, which I find intriguing for fungus. 

So, any help would be GREATLY appreciated. I know I must have some major practice changes ahead, but better to change things now than keep doing something wrong. If there is any additional info I can provide to answer the questions, I will be happy to do so. Thanks for your time,
Scott


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## littlefrog (Sep 13, 2005)

I have no real theories on the frogs. The white fungus you see in with your plants is probably snow mold. If it isn't, it is some other fungus. You see this a lot on plants in humid environments, the fungus is feeding on rotting material (bark, organic components of the medium, dead roots, etc). I even see some filamentous fungus in my orchid pots, perfectly healthy orchids grown in a bark mix, it is just a natural part of the bark's decay process. 

In general, if the fungus is not actually growing on or penetrating the plant material, it isn't a problem. Most fungi are not pathogenic to plants (or frogs, for that matter). They can actually be beneficial in some cases. A new vivarium or plant tank will often go through several cycles of fungal growth, you'll see some a week or a few weeks after initial planting, it goes away for a while, and you might see it again some time later. Eventually things reach an equilibrium and you don't see 'blooms' of fungus.

Your plants will do better if you give them at least several hours of dark, btw.


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

I agree with the light comment, I only keep the light on to keep some warmth in the tank, garage is a bit cold due to outside. Your comments about snow mold makes sense, the substate is a terrarium mulch, bed-a-beast, and spagnum moss mix. Okay, I can feel better about bringing that tank inside now. Thanks for the help! Anybody on the frogs and tads? Thanks,
Scott


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## HappyHippos1 (May 7, 2007)

I am new as well but I've had auratus tads for about two months and growth is great. I have searched the board and decided that I wasn't going to change the water at all! I think from Oz's advice. 

I filled a small bucket of sphagnum, various plant leafs,rabbits foot fern esp., and mag leaves and just top off the tad containers from that bucket. The water was straight from the sink but has been sitting, with a bubbler in it along with all that other junk, for the complete tads lives. Once a week I drop some fish flakes, etc. I'm amazed at the tads growth, seriously they are big. I top off the tad water whenever I feel the need, and various goodys also go into the tads water. I've noticed that they like to eat the leaves and hide around the sphagnum. The water isn't nearly as nasty as I thought it would be.

The tads and water isn't heated at all, just sits on the counter. Also one tad had a bubble and I thought he was a goner after reading about most tads dying on this board but the tads bubbles is gone! (Not sure if that is related to not changing the water just thought I'd share)


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

First thing you may want to check is your supplements. They may have expired. Second it may also be beneficial to see a vet and get a fecal done on any remaining animals, or a necropsy on a dead one. 

Any swings in temperature? Extreme heat or cold?


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

Okay, I feel stupid. Supplements had expired by a month, and they are now in the trash. What is the rationale here? Could this have something to do with the tads, too? All my frogs were getting the same supplements. Can there be adverse effects of expired supplements just after a month? I knew there was something I major I needed to change, but I should have caught this one. Any other ideas on what's going on, or is this it? Thanks,
Scott


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## porkchop48 (May 16, 2006)

I replace my supplement ever 5-6 months. Alot of other people do the same thing on the board. I know it takes a good while for them to expire according to the date on the container. So that might have had some ill effects. 

Other than that I wish I could help you out but really have no idea. Maybe try getting some fecals done or an autospy as some one else suggested.

Best of luck to you


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

with respect to the supplements.. keep in mind that a lot of nutrition is passed to the tadpoles via the yolk. If the nutrition in the yolk is deficient there is an increased risk to the tadpoles. 

This is also why some people give thier adults a break from reproduction. 

Ed


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## imitator83 (Jan 5, 2006)

Thanks for the input, everyone. I appear to have identified at least one problem. It has been dealt with and new supplements are on the way. If there are any more ideas about the situation, please feal free to chime in or PM me. Thanks again,
Scott


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