# feeding isos and springs



## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

Will storing the fish flakes and dog food in the freezer kill/prevent mites from being added to my cultures? 

Thanks


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## orin (Sep 8, 2013)

pinkpony said:


> Will storing the fish flakes and dog food in the freezer kill/prevent mites from being added to my cultures?
> 
> Thanks


It should prevent them getting into the food but freezing won't hurt them if they're there.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Fish flakes and dog food are both made at as low a temperature as possible. They both typically contain grains. This makes them both very likely to carry mite eggs into your cultures. Freezing it will not alleviate this risk.


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## pinkpony (Mar 22, 2013)

And here I thought I was being smart n careful. LOL
I guess back to bakers yeast for the springs.. hopefully I didn't mess up my 2 springtail cultures.

What should I feed the isos to help keep mites from taking over my isos? I've only had them for 2 weeks. They are dwarf purples.

I know its impossible to keep them mite free but I'd like to be as cautious as possible so the mites can't over run them. 

Thanks


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## orin (Sep 8, 2013)

I have a thriving colony of the Costa Rican "jungle micropods" (these are the same as your "purples") and I keep them on old millipede frass or compost manure and feed them dry dog food and dead leaves. Mostly don't dry them out and don't feed more than they can eat in a few days. The bigger the colony gets the easier it is to maintain. I prefer dry, cheap dog food since the types that include moist nuggets (you can sqeeze these with your hands and they compact rather than crush) are more likely to attract and become infested with mites. Most fish foods are also easily infested if you have grain mites anywhere nearby. The isos don't incorporate the excess vitamin A into their bodies but if you're concerned fish food or fruits are fine.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I wouldn't use compost manure in or around anything that will go into my vivs.


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## smallchange (Jul 2, 2013)

Being a heavily processed product it's unlikely that either dried dog or fish food would introduce mites into cultures, especially if fresh and from packets that havent been hanging around for years in which case they could have picked up contamination. The most likely source of contamination will be the cultured insects your adding and any organic media (compost, leaf mould etc.) your culturing on. If your worried about the food and culture media a home sterilise trick would be a short stint in a microwave (prior to adding insects ) which will cook anything containing water (e.g. mites and mite eggs). Be careful microwaving dried products like fish or dog food, very short times (seconds) are needed and don't walk away it is a fire risk ! Any media is easier as you want it damp, so wet it first then the steam will sterilise it.


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## orin (Sep 8, 2013)

Pumilo said:


> I wouldn't use compost manure in or around anything that will go into my vivs.


 You don't have to, most any vivarium substrate should work. Any facts behind your emotions?


smallchange said:


> Being a heavily processed product it's unlikely that either dried dog or fish food would introduce mites into cultures, especially if fresh and from packets that havent been hanging around for years in which case they could have picked up contamination. The most likely source of contamination will be the cultured insects your adding and any organic media (compost, leaf mould etc.) your culturing on. If your worried about the food and culture media a home sterilise trick would be a short stint in a microwave (prior to adding insects ) which will cook anything containing water (e.g. mites and mite eggs). Be careful microwaving dried products like fish or dog food, very short times (seconds) are needed and don't walk away it is a fire risk ! Any media is easier as you want it damp, so wet it first then the steam will sterilise it.


 The microwave can be used to kill larger organisms such as nematodes and mites in substrate you'll want to use but it will not kill mites in infested food products unless you get it hot engough to warp the container and burn part of the food (which stinks so bad your spouse may throw you out). If you get mites in dog food or fish flakes it's better to throw it away. The grain mites are likely found in almost every person's vivarium on the board and when you open a bag of dog food or fish flakes it can become heavily infested. Keeping it in a different room or the freezer is a good way to prevent the problem. Most people probably don't even notice when their foodstuffs seem a little powdery, it is easy to miss.


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## smallchange (Jul 2, 2013)

I wouldn't agree with that, but you have to be careful. Remember if the product is dry yet contaminated with mites which are 95% water they will be cooked with just a couple of seconds in the microwave, 2-3 x 5 second pulses should be enough and will neither burn the product or make a smell. It is a good suggestion to store product in the freezer to prevent it from being contaminated in the first place.

Admittedly these guys probably using higher power than a domestic appliance, but short time is the key:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/may96/grain0596.htm


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

orin said:


> You don't have to, most any vivarium substrate should work. Any facts behind your emotions?


I like how you did that. You pin it down as emotions to try to discredit me.
Well, for starters, as a matter of fact I think it is disgusting to have a bunch of cultures full of manure in your house, but I guess that's just me. 
Other than that, manure can carry pathogens. Composting it _correctly_ can eliminate them, but it is rarely done "correctly". Pathogen elimination is not the goal of composting manure, therefore the outer portions may never reach temperatures high enough for a total pathogen kill. Additionally, keeping in mind that sterility is not the goal, it is easy to recontaminate the composted manure with fresh manure.
To me, the use of manure in your home seems both disgusting, and a very easy possible risk to eliminate. There is simply no need for it.

You seem to like your facts. Please give us some real reasons, backed by facts, about why keeping manure in your house is a good idea, and cannot possibly ever be a health risk to anyone.


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## orin (Sep 8, 2013)

smallchange said:


> I wouldn't agree with that, but you have to be careful. Remember if the product is dry yet contaminated with mites which are 95% water they will be cooked with just a couple of seconds in the microwave, 2-3 x 5 second pulses should be enough and will neither burn the product or make a smell. It is a good suggestion to store product in the freezer to prevent it from being contaminated in the first place.
> 
> Admittedly these guys probably using higher power than a domestic appliance, but short time is the key:
> 
> Microwaves Zap Grain Pests


 The container inner and outer walls are usually cool to the touch and none of the mites on those surfaces are killed. I have tried to kill mites in dog food and fish flakes and the problem is you can't get an even kill without adding moisture and by the time you turn the food into a watery mush and cook it it's probably not worth the time.



Pumilo said:


> I like how you did that. You pin it down as emotions to try to discredit me.


 And yet your response is to skip offering facts or data and type the word manure over and over again as an emotional appeal not understanding or caring that compost manure is similar to soil in consistency and that I said it was one of multiple options. Your use of "disgusting manure in your house" was meant to belittle, not convey facts or information.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

You could easily do a microwave mite kill experiment

I don't think it matters if he sides are cool- the microwaves should cook the mites because there is water in the mites. I bet you get significant % kill even at thirty seconds


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## orin (Sep 8, 2013)

frogparty said:


> You could easily do a microwave mite kill experiment


 I was providing the outcome of actual attempts in the previous posts, not ideas of what I think might possibly happen. You can burn the food in a bag or plastic container and still live mites will be walking around the sides. You have to get it hot enough to produce steam that heats up the sides greater than 120F. Even if you don't burn a tiny portion of the food the smell is not pleasant. When burnt, consider the smell of burnt popcorn in the microwave and make it far, far more unpleasant.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

We had a few ants in our microwave at work. I thought "I'll fix them", and turned on the microwave. After about a minute they were still there, going about their business. Didn't seem to phase them at all.


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