# Historonicus Availability



## daryl34 (Feb 24, 2007)

I have a question, I thought these were quite beautiful frogs, I have been looking all over the states for them , they seem to be incredibly rare. If they ever were available, what do people think the going rate for them would be, not a price for a morph, but rather a general price.
Thanks,
Daryl


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## HappyHippos1 (May 7, 2007)

Search and you'll find your answer.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

> Search and you'll find your answer.


I don't believe doing a search is an appropriate answer to how much they would cost.


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## Matt Mirabello (Aug 29, 2004)

I have not see one for sale in 4 years and at the time it went for $500 (captive born)


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

despite not being part of the request, it really does matter the morph. You aren't likely to find many/any in the US but there are some in Europe. The going rate over there is about $600-700 a pair and goes up from there, but of course at those prices there are and will always be some questions to their legality and whether they were smuggled or not.


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

As Stace stated the going rate for a pair in Europe can be anywhere from 600-1200... WE are also talking about euros so when you translate 600 euros it becomes $900-$1000 dollars per pair. If you are looking to buy and can find a pair of X in US you will be subjected to what the seller wants to charge for them since there isnt a set price on them. Not many breed/sell them so that person chooses what the going rate is for his or her frogs. Good luck finding some..


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## daryl34 (Feb 24, 2007)

Thank you for the real responses. Heres a second question, how many pairs do you think are allready in the US? Since no one has had one available for probably 4 years, the answer is probably very low.

What do people think are the rarest frogs possibly available in the hobby?


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## Mywebbedtoes (Jul 2, 2007)

I have a dart that can rollerblade, that has to be pretty rare.

My guess is that the ones that are "rare" tend to be illegal, and people with illegal frogs tend to be quiet about it.


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

So is it legal to import them from Europe and keep them here in states?
Assuming they come with papers...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There are legal ones in the states but they have a low reproductive rate and a lot of people have a real hard time getting them to breed with any consistency. 
This means that the people that do have them have more people who want them and keeps them off the open market in the USA. 

Ed


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

the rarest frog thats in the hobby is d. lehmanni. but thats not considering the ones that died out of the hobby and the ones that were not even sure are still around. 

arent there a few people on this board that have the yellow spotted(not sure if thats what that morph is called) morph of hisrionicus? im sure ive heard that from a couple people in other topics. try searching for them here, im sure you can find alot.


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## Alan (Jan 12, 2005)

I have seen them for sale twice in the last 3 years. One was $700 and the other was offered at ~$750.


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

for a pair or individually?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

How do I keep missing these. Just up for sale at a show or advertised?


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

*histos*

There are a fair number of histrionicus, sylvaticus, and lehmanni in the states, many of them legally imported years ago. I couple of dedicated hobbyists have had some successful reproduction of these frogs and a few have trickled out for sale. But very few. I have seen all 3 for sale at the NWFF event at least once in years past. 

Luckily the sellers are picky about who they sell these frogs too, just having the money doesn't cut it all the time. IF one animal is available it usually goes to someone with the same frog to have a chance at breeding. I know a few froggers who keep these frogs and will not sell the offspring to anyone who hasn't shown some stability/longevity in the hobby as well as being able to breed other frogs. We all as a community should embrace this type of responsibility as buyers and sellers. 

Just thoughts
Eric


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

*Re: histos*

Hi Eric,

You do say "all the time"... but I've seen a seller (at NWFF a couple years back) sell Histrionicus to a rank amateur. The person is out of the hobby now (come to think of it, I think the seller is out of the hobby as well) and I'm fairly certain the frogs were deceased before he had his "fire sale".

It really disgusted me that it was money only doing the speaking there...

s


EricM said:


> ... Luckily the sellers are picky about who they sell these frogs too, just having the money doesn't cut it all the time. /quote]


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

thedude said:


> the rarest frog thats in the hobby is d. lehmanni. but thats not considering the ones that died out of the hobby and the ones that were not even sure are still around.
> 
> arent there a few people on this board that have the yellow spotted(not sure if thats what that morph is called) morph of hisrionicus? im sure ive heard that from a couple people in other topics. try searching for them here, im sure you can find alot.


Are you making this statement based on opinion or fact ? There are other frogs such as Arboreus, Vincenteii and some others which could be considered rare as well.......................... 



frogfarm said:


> How do I keep missing these. Just up for sale at a show or advertised?


I doubt you'll see these advertised soon Aaron :wink: 



EricM said:


> There are a fair number of histrionicus, sylvaticus, and lehmanni in the states, many of them legally imported years ago. I couple of dedicated hobbyists have had some successful reproduction of these frogs and a few have trickled out for sale. But very few. I have seen all 3 for sale at the NWFF event at least once in years past.
> 
> Luckily the sellers are picky about who they sell these frogs too, just having the money doesn't cut it all the time. IF one animal is available it usually goes to someone with the same frog to have a chance at breeding. I know a few froggers who keep these frogs and will not sell the offspring to anyone who hasn't shown some stability/longevity in the hobby as well as being able to breed other frogs. We all as a community should embrace this type of responsibility as buyers and sellers.
> 
> ...


I am not one to put ranks on people and their abilities but i do agree with you here very much...... And Yes there are many more frogs that are in the states which are not neccesarily advertised in open markets which is possibly the reason why these frogs are still alive. Used to be when you frst started frogs u bought an imitator or leucomela..... Nowadays your buying Esucudos and Isla Colon, What's next ? Histos as your first frog ?


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

neither actually. more like what ive gathered from looking at a lot of the topics on the board about these issues. i wasnt even aware vicentei or arboreus were ever in the hobby becuase ive never heard anything about them being kept or anything really.


"Nowadays your buying Esucudos and Isla Colon, What's next ? Histos as your first frog ?"

are you saying thats a bad thing? if so, why?? wouldnt that be a good thing if we knew enough about the breeding habits of histos and such so that we could make them common? maybe i just missed what you ment.


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

I am in fact saying what you think. You now have every Dick and Harry buying what ever he/she wants just because they have the money for it. Trust me when i tell you i know people who bought Colons and dont even know what a springtail is, never mind doing a fecal or having meds for your frogs. 

There is a reason why Blue Jeans are now so rare. Forget the fact that they are super sensitive frogs but when their shipments came in everyone in their mother got some. Where are they now ? Im not saying people should not be able to have what they want, but a little more experience is in order for some species.................... 

*" Half the people who have dogs should not own one " *


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I don`t even know what to say but thanks Rich for giving me a chance at breeding the grannies. 
The next clutch goes back to you for trade. 
Although I`ve been looking for ages, I`ve never had anyone offer me a chance except Rich. I`ve heard of a few success` and been told the waitlist is too long after they just told me they had a single adult animal available at NWFF which wasn`t reserved. I mean c`mon, tell me you have a couple every year and you had one not reserved at nwff and then tell me the waitlist is too long, which is it. 
You have to be in the clique or new enough to have a possibility instead of a probability of success. 
I`ve never heard of anyone offering Rich or I any of the above and I can`t think of anyone more qualified from past success`. 
I`m sorry, woke up in a bad mood and haven`t taken my meds yet.
I should go split wood!


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## froglet (May 18, 2005)

Aaron when your done chopping the wood send me some to NYC... preferably some nice branchy shapes :wink:


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## Alan (Jan 12, 2005)

porkchop said:


> for a pair or individually?


$700-750 EACH.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

froglet said:


> Used to be when you frst started frogs u bought an imitator or leucomela..... Nowadays your buying Esucudos and Isla Colon, What's next ? Histos as your first frog ?


Many many years ago when I was first looking into getting into the hobby, histrionicus and blue jeans were beginner frogs because that was what was being imported... 

Ed


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

Whoah... Thought i wanted some for my collection, but thats steep.
Dont know if i could afford that, But will hopefully get some someday, for my own pleasure of owning. Someday.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I see we started at roughly the same time. Histrionicus was the 3rd frog I bought ($40/piece). I killed one in a week and moved the other 3 to someone much more experienced than myself.

s


Ed said:


> ... Many many years ago when I was first looking into getting into the hobby, histrionicus and blue jeans were beginner frogs because that was what was being imported...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The bullseye morph was the ones I was looking into getting.. I didn't get them because I didn't have a good supply of ffs at that time. 

Ed


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

You might have been a bit earlier. I think mine was the "Valley" morph or something like that. It was the "red net" pattern.

I had fruit flies - just not enough of a clue (at the time).

s


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I saw them publicly offered on a website shortly after getting into the hobby...I was tempted to scratch up every dime to buy them, but resisted, hoping someone more qualified would end up with them.


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

*Egg feeders*

Scott,

I haven't been to all the NWFFs, so may have missed that one or I wasn't aware of how it went down. I'll buy you a beer/beverage at Naac and we can compare notes if you like.

My comments overall have pertained to more recent conversations with froggers who do breed egg feeder frogs, I think the community overall is more bent on conservation as time goes on.

I got to see some beautiful sylvaticus juvies this last summer and the owner was planning on holding everything back in case of loss of either parent. More focus on longevity in the hobby. 

It's hard to gauge who will or won't be successful with a certain species, even if they have prior success with other species and seem to be "qualified" or well seasoned. I know a few people who have bought eggfeeders and eventually lost them, even with large collections that are managed well. Hopefully the TWI mentorship takes off and there will be better protocal for new stewards of rarer frogs in the hobby.

As far as beginners starting with pumilios, there is an awful lot of information available to the new frogger, if you can follow a recipe you have a good chance of keeping frogs alive and healthy. Breeding may be trickier. I think the crux is sustainability when life gets complicated. Relationship drama, moving to new locations, recreational chemistry, studying for exams, working overtime, the animals get put on the back burner and then things can go south fast. I would feel more comfortable selling a "difficult/rarer" frog to someone that has bred vents for 5 years than to a new person who bought a pair of x and got babies right away. 

I can remember passing up histrionicus and blue jeans for cobalt tinctorius when they first arrived at the wholesalers. Myself and Charlie Fanzlaw from the old ISSD bought about 24 bullseyes one year for$20 each. I got eight of them, all male, they lasted from a few weeks to about a year when the last one went down. I had bred ventrimaculatus and auratus only when I got them. Although I had had red head histos for about 6 months before the bullseyes came available. One of the red heads lived almost two years and after seeing how they were shipped back then it was a miracle.

I think the hobby as a whole is moving in the right direction.

ERic


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Hi Eric,

Looking forward to meeting you finally.

If the shipping methods we have today were applied on the Histrionicus arriving back then - I think we would still have them in the hobby. Or at least more of them.

s


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Ed said:


> Many many years ago when I was first looking into getting into the hobby, histrionicus and blue jeans were beginner frogs because that was what was being imported...
> 
> Ed


Me too Ed...guess it was around 93ish...blue jeans were $25 at the local tropical fish shop. They didn't carry fruit flies.


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## barbar0 (Dec 3, 2007)

I just saw a viv supply online shop here in switzerland today offering 2.1. Histrionicus Litha for 2000 CHF which is almost 1900$


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Scott said:


> Hi Eric,
> 
> Looking forward to meeting you finally.
> 
> ...


Its more than the shipping..its the care before shipment as much as the shipment. 

Ed


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## 013 (Aug 9, 2006)

Here are some more for sale, in Germany.

http://bensjungle.de/foto_galerie.hp

They look amazing, but i can't be bothered as long as they're considered illegal...


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