# Little Nasties



## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

I've been finding these guys in the bottoms of my film canisters for quite a while. I'm not concerned that they'll hurt my frogs, but i'm concerned about their eggs. I was watching a tad develop in a canister for a while and the other day it disappeared. I figured it had hatched and made it's way into the bottom of the canister, but when i emptied it out all i found were these "worms". There is a chance the male moved the tad, but i don't see it anywhere, and i've had some eggs disappear. Maybe i'm being paranoid but i'd feel better if i knew what they were:










I've looked at pics of Nemerteans, Grindal Worms, White Worms, etc and these don't look like any of the pics. This is a small one, the largest i've seen are around 3/8" and have a black and white "Zebra" pattern. Sorry for the poor pic, i'll try to get better ones.


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2007)

They look like some sort of flat worm, and flat worms like to eat decaying matter. Its possible that your tad or the egg died, and the worms ate it. Im not sure if they eat living things though. I hope that tad is found and survived.


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

I really can't tell from the photo, but I'm just going to guess that it's some sort of fly larva. Did you use some sort of wild collected moss in your tank?


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

It still hasn't shown up Cesar, i'm hoping it's in a brom somewhere.

There is a good chance they are larva, i always have these little moth looking bugs show up. The bodies are about the size of a hydei, but they have moth like wings and antennae. I get a few at a time, but never too many. I figure the frogs catch them here and there. They've been in the tank almost as long as it's been up. Any clue what they might be so i can look for some pics?


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

Planarian.


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

You think maybe you can get a better picture of the bug? Get a magnifying glass or something?


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

I'll have to see if there are any in there and give that a try.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2007)

Yea, my idea is that it might be a flatworm, like I said before. Planarian of some kind.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

I looked up the planarians Google and that may be it too. I'll have to try and find another one and get a better pic. I cleaned out all the canisters after i found the last ones so it may take a few days or longer for more to show up.

I ended up pulling the canister that the latest clutch was layed in. I've got it in a container with some water. No signs of any of the suspected worms in with this clutch, probably because it was layed right after i cleaned out the canisters.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

I found another one. It was just a small one so i saved it in a container to see what happens. Still blurry but you can get a better idea of the body shape:









Also, upon further inspection, they are transparent with black circumferential stripes.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Looks to be some sort of beetle or fly larva.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Larva of one of these perhaps?:









This is an old shot of one of the moth looking flies i described.


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

I would have no way of knowing. Flies, beetles, etc... are a pretty diverse group, and I don't even know what that last photo you posted is.


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

Well, I can tell for sure that it's not a planarian.

Does the little worm thing have legs? If it does, it's probably a beetle or butterfly/moth larva. If it also has false legs, then it's a butterfly/moth larva rather than a beetle.

If it lacks legs, then it's probably some sort of fly larva. 

I'm guessing the flying insects are some sort of dipteran fly (how many wings does it have? It might be extremely difficult to tell for sure, but all dipterans have two rather than four), and that the larvae do come from it. If you want to know for sure if they come from the flying insects, isolate some, try to provide food, etc, and then let it pupate and morph out.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

They don't appear to have any legs (at least to the naked eye). I only remember seeing two wings on the flies, but i never got a close up look at one. They had some fuzzy looking antennae though. 


I have one of the larva in a condiment cup. What should i feed it?


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

I don't have a clue, but you can experiment with detritus from the tank, maybe.


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

It appears to be metamerized (segmented) so that definately cancels out a planarian. Some sort of insect larva, most likely some sort of beetle. The only way to know for sure would be to raise some of them and identify the mature adult. Not a bad side project. 8)


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Do you think tadpole bites would work? Or maybe some oak leaf skeletons?


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

Its hard to say if we don't know what it is. I would try feeding it a bunch of different things to see what it "likes".


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

I came home today and apparently it multiplied, there are two now (the container has a lid). I put a couple tadpole bites in to see what happens.


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## Frogsarethashit (Jan 14, 2007)

Thats odd. Now I have no idea what it could be.


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## philthelizard (Sep 24, 2006)

The adult fly pic is a moth fly, family Psychodidae. You can usually find these living in your drains. They feed on the 'bio-film' that typically accumulates there by imbedding their bodies and putting out the end of their abdomen, where thier spiracles or 'nostrils' are, kind of like a snorkle. However, I am not sure if the larvae are this specific fly, however, they do 'appear' to be dipteran (fly). Hope this helps.

phil


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Awesome Phil, i think you may have nailed it. I looked them up on Google and the flies and larva both look very similar to what i have. I saw that it said they feed on microorganisms and organic material. Do you think i should worry about them being in with my eggs?


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## philthelizard (Sep 24, 2006)

I am not sure if they are cause for worry or not. I am not experience with frog eggs yet, but I would assume that if the eggs are struggling at all, the larvae would feed on them. Best bet would be to try and remove them and possibly try and cover your containers with some no-see-um cloth or some other fine screen, unless you are letting the adult frogs raise the eggs/tadpoles. Also, removing the adults will help prevent the larvae. I have had a similar outbreak of these flies in a tank with a tarantula, and all I had to do was remove the adults and clean the water bowl. In an environment like a frog tank, clean up might not be that easy due to all the organic material and high humidity. 

So in short, I would remove the larvae and adults from the tank when you see them, and hope for the best with your eggs. Good luck, and let us know how it goes! 

phil


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks Phil, i've been reading about them for the last hour or so. I think you're right about them possibly feeding on bad eggs. Everything i've read has said they feed on decaying materials. Apparently they play very important roles in sewers, where they help break down materials. In that respect, i think they may actually be beneficial to the vivarium, however i'm still not comfortable having the larva living with my eggs. I'll be a little more dilligent when it comes to cleaning out my film canisters but there's really no way to clean out my water feature. We'll have to see what happens once my vents start figuring out the breeding thing (they're still young). If i start getting tads that develop in the viv, i'll be more comfortable. I have a small clutch developing outside the viv now, so hopefully they'll make it and i'll know the parents are producing good eggs.


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## RGB (Jan 15, 2006)

A little update: It turns out Phil was right, it was a Moth Fly larva. I kept it in a little condiment cup with some tadpole bites and it hatched into a fly today.


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