# Giant Orange Isopod reproduction speed



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

It has been noted that giant orange isopods reproduce slower than dwarf purples and dwarf white isopods. I'm going to challenge that theory, and explain why I think it is wrong.
I believe that giant orange isopods reproduce every bit as quickly as dwarf purple and dwarf white isopods. I believe that the ONLY reason they SEEM to reproduce slower, is due because they grow up slower and take longer to reach reproductive age.
I'm going to cut some time here and paste in an email I recently sent to somebody. His direct questions was, _"I have my spanish oranges in a shoebox and they don't produce very well. Would it help if I move them to a smaller container like the one shown in your Iso/sping thread?".
_

My reply
I have found that giant oranges do not respond the same way to early size limitation. An initial smaller container makes a world of difference on the dwarf varieties. Oranges have a strong feeding response and travel well. If you feed them, they will be happy and they will find each other every time they feed. Breeding will not be a problem. Thus a shoebox size works great. For maximum production I set up between 12 to 40 adults in a plastic shoebox. PULL THE ADULTS WHEN YOU START SEEING BABIES. Not just one or two, but if rooting around can turn up 20 babies without too much effort, then start collecting adults every time you open it to check or feed them. Throw adults in a new container to start a new culture. Old container still has babies. Babies that will grow faster without competition for food, and THAT'S what really matters. So why are we pulling the adults when we only see about 20 babies? Because if you set them up in a shoebox sized container, as I've recommended, and you can 20 or so babies, repeated personal experience lets me assure you there are *at least* 150 in there. 
I believe that giant oranges actually reproduce as fast as any other isopod. It's just that they mature much slower. Lets say you start with 10 bugs. That COULD potentially mean 5 pairs, yes? Let's go 6 months, with MADE UP numbers. Let's say an average clutch is 10 babies, just to keep it easy. Right away, your fully mature Dwarf White Isopod groupings produce a clutch. From 5 pairs that is 50 babies. Plus your intitial parents makes 60 bugs. Babies can mate at half grown, so let's say 2 months, (although it's actually probably quicker if well raised). So 2 months in to our experiment we have 30 breeding pairs. Next clutches come, leaving you with 300 babies, plus existing parents makes 360 bugs. 4 months in, the next clutches are dropped from 180 breeding pairs. This leaves 1,800 babies plus existing stock equals 1,980 bugs. 6 months leaves another clutch of 9,900 babies plus existing stock leaves you with a 6 month total of 11,880 dwarf white isopods. Every generation you produce exponentially more breeding groups.
Now lets look at 10 adult giant orange isopods. They easily take 2 or 3 times longer to mature. That's the main issue with them. Let's double their generation time. So you start with 5 pairs leaving you 50 babies, plus the adults is 60 bugs. At 4 months we drop another clutch. Your 60 breeders (30 pairs) leaves you with 300 babies, plus existing stock gives you a total of 360 giant orange isopods at the 4 month mark. At 6 months you are still waiting for the next generation.
Our 6 month experiment is complete. Finished numbers are 360 giant orange isopods, compared to 11,880 dwarf white isopods, even though they are reproducing at the same speed.

See why pulling adults can really boost production? Let the adults see plenty of space and food, and they will try to fill it with babies. When it's full of babies, food and space are limited, so breeding slows or stops. At the same time, who eats more, a baby or an adult? Get the adults out and the babies can do there thing. No competition for food means faster growing babies.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please remember that these are fictional numbers. When I have stated "10" as a clutch size, it was ONLY to keep the math easy. Actual numbers may vary. The actual numbers are not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to point out that yes, it does take longer to get giant orange isopods to reach large populations, but that has little or possibly nothing to do with reproductive speed, or clutch size. In this case it is more about grow out time. This thread is also to point out that there ARE still things we can do to boost their productivity.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't think there's anything in the literature to back this up. Is there? Most sources I find state that Porcellio scaber takes over a year to reach sexual maturity:

Life cycle stages of woodlice

I can't find much on Trichorhina tomentosa, so I guess I can't really compare maturation rates. Funny, I thought they were a fairly common species for soil toxicity assays? So I guess I can't really say that one definitely reaches sexual maturity before the other... at least not with the information at my disposal

But unless you set up a controlled experiment comparing the two, I feel like it's a stretch to make this claim. Hell, if you set up a good enough experiment examining the two, I'd recommend trying to get it published to a journal like Arthropod Systematics & Phylogeny (free to publish and open source) since there seems to be so little information about this.


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## Kalakole (Jun 30, 2011)

Pumilo, I agree with you. I have thousands of Giant oranges using the above method and believe the Giant Oranges to almost out produce my Whites and striped isopods to be honest. Once they get going, they really go.


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## clifford (Oct 17, 2008)

Oranges have been better producers for me than any of my other isos (also keep skirted, white, purple and standard "pills"), and I would agree it only takes a few months to get them to breeding size. I keep them in pretty standard plastic shoeboxes, and feed a variety of veggie scraps (whatever ends up in the kitchen compost bin), and every once in a while some high-protein trout chow. They always have a lot of extra food available, I usually only cut it back when I start to see mold. 

I received my starter culture from Doug early Nov 2012 (which I think had 10-20 adults in it). Over the past year I've heavily seeded 25+ tanks with adults, feed them off to my spiders and fish, and started 10 or so new cultures, which are all producing now. 

I'll see how many adults I can pull from the cultures tonight when I get home. It would be interesting to get an estimate of how many I've ended up with.


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## jrodkinsey (May 27, 2013)

I purchased some Dwarf purples, skirted and giant oranges all on the same day. Out the three cultures, the oranges are the only ones that I'm seeing a larger quantity of babies throughout the culture. I keep all my isopods on a ABG mix and feed bug burger once a week or as needed.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

hypostatic said:


> I don't think there's anything in the literature to back this up. Is there? Most sources I find state that Porcellio scaber takes over a year to reach sexual maturity:
> 
> Life cycle stages of woodlice


Then their isopod care is sorely lacking. I have had them breeding at well under 6 months. Of course that's only undocumented personal observation and experience. I don't have the proof to back it up and I have no interest in proving it. Sorry, but I have no interest in being published in any scientific papers. I'm just here to relieve the tedium of real life, and perhaps share some of the information I've gathered along the way.

On the other hand, if you have any interest in getting published in scientific papers, then here's an easy write up for you. No way does it take a year for giant oranges to reproduce successfully.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

All the above points are taken well. Especially nutrition -- I remember posting a paper on p. scaber where they supplemented chalk for calcium.

I guess all the information i have is sorely outdated.

And on your suggestion, one can always have some more publications


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Long before I was into darts, I visited a guy who bred hundred plus species of roaches. His roach bins were filled with orange isos. The bins were dry with no substrate just egg cartons. He used them to clean up the roaches. They likely had a steady supply of protein in the form of dead roaches. I have started keeping mine drier and they seem to like it. I think more protein is needed. 
I have also heard that isos are great for skeletonizing vertebrates. Still haven't tried that.


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## SirKyleP (Dec 7, 2013)

Interesting read! I just got some Spanish Oranges and am excited to see how they go. Could you eliminate food competition if there is constantly food in the culture?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

SirKyleP said:


> Interesting read! I just got some Spanish Oranges and am excited to see how they go. Could you eliminate food competition if there is constantly food in the culture?


While that would certainly help, I still think separation provides the best results. It appears that adults will still literally walk all over their own offspring to get to the food first.


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## InvertaHerp (Mar 4, 2013)

What if after making a bunch of fresh cultures, you lump them back together into a huge master culture and feed a ton? Couldn't you also keep it warmer for them to grow and reproduce faster?


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## SirKyleP (Dec 7, 2013)

Pumilo said:


> While that would certainly help, I still think separation provides the best results. It appears that adults will still literally walk all over their own offspring to get to the food first.


I guess they love their food. Thanks for the information!


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## JeremyHuff (Apr 22, 2008)

Could also bury food for the immatures.


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## nirotorin (Jul 11, 2013)

Very useful information, and comments. I can't wait to start my own colony. I'll start using the adult removal technique with my other species too. My P. dilatatis culture should have been split long ago anyway.


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## Old_Trekee (Dec 8, 2013)

I know this is an old post, but it is very good information. Needs to come back to the top.


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