# New Member Here



## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

I've been keeping reptiles and some amphibians for many years except for a hiatus where I was breeding seahorses. I just recently set up a display vivarium for dart frogs and I have questions. I'd like to match the frogs to the vivarium so here are my specs:

-36"x18"x36" Exo Terra
-Mist King Ultimate system with six nozzles (runs eight times a day for 20 seconds)
-4 x 39 watt T5 (two 5.0 UVB bulbs, 1 5000k FloraSun, 1 6500k daylight)
-basking area at the top
-three inch layer of HydroBalls 
-three to four inch layer of New England Herpetoculture vivarium substrate
-background constructed of silicone, spray foam and coir
-cork bark and vines for climbing

My humidity runs between 80% to 95%. The temperature runs from a daytime temp of 72 degrees at the bottom up to a basking area of around 85 degrees. The mid tank temps seem to hover around 78 to 80 degrees. At night this drops to a bottom of the tank temp of around 65 to 68 degrees and a mid tank of around 72 degrees. I maintain a basking area at night with a black bulb at around 80 degrees.

Is there a species that will utilize the entire enclosure? Can I mix a more arboreal species with one that's more terrestrial? Should I maintain a water bowl at the bottom? I have Bromeliads full of water at the top. Any suggestions would be gretly appreciated and thanlks for looking.


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## T2theG (Jul 6, 2013)

Welcome! 

I would have to say your best bet is to check out some of the beginner forums. There are plenty of threads that will answer many of your questions.

Here is a link:

Beginner Discussion - Dendroboard


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Welcome! 

Broms with water should suffice. Please don't mix animals in the tank. It's really not a good idea without loads of research and experience. 

I think a group of Leucs would use the whole tank. Or pumilio, Sirensis, imitators. I'm not sure it would be good for tincs unless you added a bit more wood to give them easier access to the higher parts. What kind of frog do you want?

btw, the tank looks great!


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks so much frogface. I'm not really particular on the type of frog I want, I just want it to be happy and to use the whole tank. I do have to say I like the "Varodero" morph of the imitator. How many do you think I could house?



frogface said:


> Welcome!
> 
> Broms with water should suffice. Please don't mix animals in the tank. It's really not a good idea without loads of research and experience.
> 
> ...


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Pretty tank! Imitators would be good in there, but I would vote leucomelas, as they just are just so busy and visible and would be so much fun to watch in a big tank like that. 

A suggestion - put together a smaller tank or tanks to quarantine whatever frogs you get , before you put them into your display tank. That way if something goes wrong with your new frogs, at least you won't need to tear down your hard work.


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

Any of the frogs available will use the whole tank. Three feet high is nothing compared to where the frogs are found in the wild. My teribilis climb to the top of my tank all the time. Pick what will keep your interest the longest. After a couple years of keeping frogs, I started picking species that I can hear calling outside of the tank. I love my tincs but I also love to hear my teribilis calling when I'm not even in the room!


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

srrrio said:


> Pretty tank! Imitators would be good in there, but I would vote leucomelas, as they just are just so busy and visible and would be so much fun to watch in a big tank like that.
> 
> A suggestion - put together a smaller tank or tanks to quarantine whatever frogs you get , before you put them into your display tank. That way if something goes wrong with your new frogs, at least you won't need to tear down your hard work.


Thanks so much! I actually already set up a small Exo Terra just for quarantine. I'm used to quarantine set-ups from having reef tanks



mongo77 said:


> Any of the frogs available will use the whole tank. Three feet high is nothing compared to where the frogs are found in the wild. My teribilis climb to the top of my tank all the time. Pick what will keep your interest the longest. After a couple years of keeping frogs, I started picking species that I can hear calling outside of the tank. I love my tincs but I also love to hear my teribilis calling when I'm not even in the room!


I never thought of it that way. That opens my options up quite a bit. Terriblis have been catching my eye.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Welcome,

Nice tank! Leucs were ny first frogs and always recommend them. I've had a group of Bicolors for a couple of years now and they're great frogs too. I'm very surprised at how much they climb. Both are great options and both have a nice call.

Edit: Might as well toss up a pic


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

frogfreak said:


> Welcome,
> 
> Nice tank! Leucs were ny first frogs and always recommend them. I've had a group of Bicolors for a couple of years now and they're great frogs too. I'm very surprised at how much they climb. Both are great options and both have a nice call.
> 
> Edit: Might as well toss up a pic


What a great looking frog! I actually jut tore my viv apart to redo some aspects. I'll put up new pics after I'm done.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Okay this is my new scape so far. Have some mosses coming to fill in the gaps. It's new so I don't like it yet but it opened the enclosure up more for the frogs to move. I also added some more broad leaf plants so they can hang out on them.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I like it! The only change I would make is to spread leaf litter across the entire bottom of the tank.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

frogface said:


> I like it! The only change I would make is to spread leaf litter across the entire bottom of the tank.


I have a bunch of leaf litter piled up on the back right. I didn't spread it out yet because the moss is coming tomorrow and I wanted to see how much room it will take up since I over-bought as usual.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Be sure to post a pic


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

nice tank...but you may have to keep an eye on growth rate for that Croton in the middle of the tank...they can grow to be a shrub...but you can always remove it and have it as an indoor plant. They can grow pretty fast too....


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Crotons are a shrub in the Euphorbiaceae that produce a very poisonous sap, known to be a skin irritant.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Welcome! 

-Chris


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Judy S said:


> nice tank...but you may have to keep an eye on growth rate for that Croton in the middle of the tank...they can grow to be a shrub...but you can always remove it and have it as an indoor plant. They can grow pretty fast too....





epiphytes etc. said:


> Crotons are a shrub in the Euphorbiaceae that produce a very poisonous sap, known to be a skin irritant.


Thanks for the info. The growth doesn't bother me but the sap thing does. Is it going to be damaging to the frogs in any way? I only bought it because of the color and it was on the LLL Reptile list as being vivarium safe. 




kitcolebay said:


> Welcome!
> 
> -Chris


Thanks Chris.


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## LoganR (Oct 25, 2013)

If you want to research the croton more, the proper scientific name is_ Codiaeum variegatum_ variety _pictus_. There are MANY different color forms. It is a bit confusing, because there is another genus of plants with the Latin name _Croton_. For this plant, Croton is the common name, rather than the proper scientific name.

The following notes the irritating sap: Floridata: Codiaeum variegatum var. pictum


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

Funny enough, "croton" and Croton are pretty closely related.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

LoganR said:


> If you want to research the croton more, the proper scientific name is_ Codiaeum variegatum_ variety _pictus_. There are MANY different color forms. It is a bit confusing, because there is another genus of plants with the Latin name _Croton_. For this plant, Croton is the common name, rather than the proper scientific name.
> 
> The following notes the irritating sap: Floridata: Codiaeum variegatum var. pictum


Thanks for the info. I'm lead to lead to believe by that article that as long as I do not cut the stems then it should be safe in the vivarium. Am I correct?


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Okay moss is in and leaves are down. The one pic shows a shallow water bowl. I didn't know if I should leave that or not.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Found some spider web looking mold today. After a misting it mostly disappeared. I also came across a frog that has really piqued my interest. It's Ranitomeya benedicta
"Shucushuyacu".


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## Urban Jungle (Oct 10, 2013)

Beautiful terrarium! Nice layout! The natural lines formed within it could be more active visually if you add some more spiral or diagonal lines. A good way to achieve this is taking a thin cotton string, covering it in a black or bronze colored silicone, and dipping the rope in peat moss and/or coco coir. Then coil it till it's dry. Afterwards, you can hang the rope as if they were spiral vines. You might want to add an air plant such as Tillensia usenoides, which will also add more active lines and beautiful green color.


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## Urban Jungle (Oct 10, 2013)

Great choice on the benedicta's. They are some of the most beautiful frogs available. Be very careful when feeding because they are very fast and like to jump out of terrariums.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks Urban. I do have quite a few Tillandsias in there already. I'll have to try that vine idea. Sounds interesting.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

There is no doubt R. benedicta are breathtakingly beautiful frogs. They can also be frustratingly invisible!


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

srrrio said:


> There is no doubt R. benedicta are breathtakingly beautiful frogs. They can also be frustratingly invisible!


I'm just so torn. I like the benedicta but I'm also liking mint terriblis a lot among many others. I'd like to keep a group that will stay visible.


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

I know it is really hard ..so many cool frogs! If I were in your position I would try and find someone that has some of the frogs you are interested in and see them in person. You would be welcome to see mine .. but perhaps a bit far : )


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

srrrio said:


> I know it is really hard ..so many cool frogs! If I were in your position I would try and find someone that has some of the frogs you are interested in and see them in person. You would be welcome to see mine .. but perhaps a bit far : )


UUggghh! I feel like my viv will be empty for awhile. Literally sitting around watching grass grow. Maybe I'll have to take you up on the invite. Good reason to go to Vegas!


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## Urban Jungle (Oct 10, 2013)

If you are looking for a smaller frog with a bold personality you should look into O. pumilio. They come in a large variety of colors and have a nice call. Their offspring have to be raised by the parents because tads only eat eggs which is sometimes nice because there is less work involved. Mine are so bold they will call while I'm pruning plants with the door open.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I wonder if it has anything to do with frog personality? I have one Benedicta that bolts for the leaf litter when I get within a foot or so of them. The other one pays me no mind and will sit right out in the open while I mess around in the tank.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

frogface said:


> I wonder if it has anything to do with frog personality? I have one Benedicta that bolts for the leaf litter when I get within a foot or so of them. The other one pays me no mind and will sit right out in the open while I mess around in the tank.


I'm sure individual personality does play a role. When I was breeding seahorses I would have one male who would not only eat from my hand but wrap his tail around my finger and just sit there when I was doing tank maintenance. The other three in the tank would stay where they were or hide.


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## Urban Jungle (Oct 10, 2013)

As far as thumbnail varieties I would have to say my favorite are my chazuta. They have bold personalities, great orange color, unique markings and mine are out almost all day long. Just be careful to only disturb them as little as possible. Unfortunately their call is only about half the volume of other thumbnails.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

If I choose a Ranitomeya sp., will the water bowl be necessary? If it's necessary anyway. What about the heat lamps? Should they be removed? Like I said, my daytime ambient is around 75 degrees and a nighttime ambient of around 68 degrees without the heat lamps.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

LongPig said:


> If I choose a Ranitomeya sp., will the water bowl be necessary? If it's necessary anyway. What about the heat lamps? Should they be removed? Like I said, my daytime ambient is around 75 degrees and a nighttime ambient of around 68 degrees without the heat lamps.


Anyone with an opinion?


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## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

I would drop the heat lamps and get some large nut pods to hold some water instead of the water bowl.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Trickishleaf said:


> I would drop the heat lamps and get some large nut pods to hold some water instead of the water bowl.
> 
> Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


I don't know why I never thought about that. I have nut pods but I used them as planters. I'll see what I have left.Thanks!


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

I feel like maybe my life is starting to make my decision for me. I don't feel like I'll have the adequate time to devote to raising young. I guess I'm going to be looking into pumilios. Beautiful frogs but not quite my taste color wise except for maybe "Escudo".


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

I currently have my Mist King set to go off eight times a day at different durations from 15 seconds to 45 seconds. Anyone have an opinion as to whether this seems adequate or is it too much/little?


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## bsr8129 (Sep 23, 2010)

seems like overkill, everyone has their own opions and tank requirements, but I have mine go on once a day for 15 sec.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

I feel like the enclosure dries out very quickly. Even with the amount it's being misted there is almost no water in the drainage layer.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

LongPig said:


> I feel like the enclosure dries out very quickly. Even with the amount it's being misted there is almost no water in the drainage layer.


I provide a little water for the frogs in all my vivs. For my thumbs and pums, it's usually just a brom with water. For my larger frogs, they either get a small pond or small dish with water. I've heard it's not necessary but all of my frogs use their water.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

I have a heating pad under the bottom of the tank that warms the drainage water. Should I remove that?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yes. Get rid of that unless the temps in your house are really low. IMO, they are better off too cold than too hot. I had heating problems this past winter and my temps inside went down into the 40s on some nights. All frogs are fine.

eta: If your frogs are in my house, be advised that the heating issue has been fixed. Frogs will be toasty warm this winter


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

My temps never really go above 75 or below 65 that's why I added the heating pad. Gives me a couple of extra degrees above those temps but could be the reason for everything drying out so quickly.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

LongPig said:


> My temps never really go above 75 or below 65 that's why I added the heating pad. Gives me a couple of extra degrees above those temps but could be the reason for everything drying out so quickly.


IMO 65 to 75 are perfect temps.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

frogface said:


> IMO 65 to 75 are perfect temps.


Ok awesome. All unplugged. I'll do some temperature checks over the next day or so.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Temps seem to be holding steady at 65 at night and 72 - 76 during the day.


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

I would suggest a group of Southern Variablis. Large for thumbs, great color, bold, and they due well in groups. If you're looking for something with red I would suggest Arena Blancas. Even with that size tank, you might only be able to keep a pair or trio of pumilos do to aggression issues. Is the top of your tank sealed? That may be why it's drying out do fast.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

mongo77 said:


> I would suggest a group of Southern Variablis. Large for thumbs, great color, bold, and they due well in groups. If you're looking for something with red I would suggest Arena Blancas. Even with that size tank, you might only be able to keep a pair or trio of pumilos do to aggression issues. Is the top of your tank sealed? That may be why it's drying out do fast.


My top is open because of the Mist King system. A piece of acrylic would have to be too wonky to fit. Can I get away with plastic wrap?


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

I have square pieces of plastic on mine. It doesn't cover the top completely and allows some air exchange which I want.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

I'm going to get some acrylic cut today to put on the top but just from unplugging the heating pad everything is starting wetter between mistings. I was able to reduce them from eight times a day to six. I think after I put the acrylic on top I will be able to reduce the mistings to four times a day.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

I feel like at this point I need someone to just look at my parameters as far as what I want in a species and give me a list of frogs to keep. I want them all and that's the problem. I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'm looking for a Ranitomeya species that will do well in a large group and will feed their tadpoles. A bold frog that I'll see in a larger enclosure. I'd prefer a nice call but it isn't a deal breaker. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Someone has to have an opinion.


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## LongPig (Nov 7, 2013)

Made the enclosure a little more thumb friendly.


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