# 120g Vivarium Build (pix)



## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

So awhile back the seams let go in our 120g fish aquarium. It sat for a bit before we got around to cleaning it and resiliconing it. It is in the water testing stage right now. Would hate to find out it doesn't hold water when everything is done! We decided to try our hand at something new. I have always wanted to try my hands at some more exotic frogs and have finally gotten my husband to agree! The exact stock is not planned yet. We will be taking a long time to build it as we are on a limited income and need to pick up a lot. The stock will be chosen at another time. But if you bear with me, I will keep a photo journal along the way.

This is the tank in its stages so far, as well as the proposed plans. I would love any feedback, advice, or just comments. I don't have any brands in mind for equipment, and I'm not sure what is available locally to me (Windsor, ON, and no credit card for online purchases). And of course, I didn't draw in the massive amount of plants I want. The back wall will be great stuff and coco fiber, the stream will be siliconed with small aquarium gravel in a neutral colour, the pond will be sand.

What are your thoughts? I plan to start with the egg crate base first, then rough in the wood and rocks. The shelf will be resting on the top of the cave. Am I headed in the right direction so far?

Oh, I forgot to mention... My husband is ambitious. He will be building a custom made lid for this enclosure.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

Just a question.... did you get rid of all of the old silicone before putting new silicone on?

Silicone won't stick to dried silicone....


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Yes we removed the old silicone and cleaned the glass well. We are fortunate to have a friend whose father breeds and sells all manner of fish. He was great in helping us get the tank back together.

Thanks for the response!


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## SteveG (Nov 29, 2013)

If keeping pdfs, you will not need a heat lamp. You're probably aware of having proper ventilation for your lighting hood since you keep fish.

Looking forward to the progress.


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Steve, you're absolutely right about the heat lamp. I am so used to having it on with my FBT's in the winter that I automatically put it in the plans. My place doesn't get cold enough to warrant them for PDF's. They are my hopeful future inhabitants in this tank. But we haven't given too much thought to which ones. I have to try to convince my husband that we don't really want a dozen different species, lol. I know how the purists think on this site and others and will gasp when I have told him he can have two species for sure. It was the only way I could get him onboard with this project! I have told him that we will be buying males then so there will be no breeding.

Without ripping my head off about it, can anyone recommend two species that will do well together? Had any personal experience with it? Remember that my tank is large and will have many areas for them to go (waterfall, river, pond, land, shelf, cave, tree, whole wall). The size of the tank is the only reason I agreed to let him have two species, lol. If you know of more species that do well together or have any tips to make it successful, please chime in.

Also remember that this tank will take us 6-12 months to just get completed. Purchasing frogs after that will take even longer. Very restricted budget here...


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

So we managed to pick up some parts today. Rough fitted the waterfall just to test the flow. While it does work, we have both decided to get a stronger pump. He wants it to be more waterfall-y, lol. This way is almost just like a drip rock stack. But other than that, we are satisfied with the way it will work. (It is also set up backwards from the plans because the cord wasn't long enough and we haven't worked in a centralized power location yet.)

We still have to pick up some more pvc piping. The lighting will come at a later date. I think we are going to go with LED's... We still need to source the mister and possibly a fogger. And I'm not sure I am happy with the rocks we have to use. We'll have to see if I can find a configuration I like.

Nothing is hard set in the tank yet, everything was just dry (in water, lol) fitted. For the river and to catch at the bottom of the waterfall we will be using vinyl dryer venting (I love how flexible it is!) From the waterfall base the dryer venting will connect to a plastic tub that will be a bog and act as a natural biological filter. From there more venting will come out to create the waterfall. All of the venting and plastic tub will be covered in silicone and sand, with some rounded rocks thrown in as well. We will probably use some Great Stuff to create riffles in the river as it flows down to the pond.

I like the ideas as they are coming to me. Rough fits are satisfactory to me. If only you could see what's actually in my head, lol! Any comments so far?


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

So we managed to get a little bit of work done. Got the waterfall GS'd into place, attached the catch basin for the water, zip-tied the land portion together, drilled the pvc supports, placed the bog and runoff. Still need to GS the bog, and runoff. I will not GS the land portion until I find some weed block in the winter. Once that is done we will lay the tank on its back to start the back ground. Still need to acquire bark rounds for the corner tree that will be in the pond. Here's the pix:


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Well, since the site seems to be having trouble, I will finish uploading my pix tomorrow...


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## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

jocie1976 said:


> Steve, you're absolutely right about the heat lamp. I am so used to having it on with my FBT's in the winter that I automatically put it in the plans. My place doesn't get cold enough to warrant them for PDF's. They are my hopeful future inhabitants in this tank. But we haven't given too much thought to which ones. I have to try to convince my husband that we don't really want a dozen different species, lol. I know how the purists think on this site and others and will gasp when I have told him he can have two species for sure. It was the only way I could get him onboard with this project! I have told him that we will be buying males then so there will be no breeding.
> 
> Without ripping my head off about it, can anyone recommend two species that will do well together? Had any personal experience with it? Remember that my tank is large and will have many areas for them to go (waterfall, river, pond, land, shelf, cave, tree, whole wall). The size of the tank is the only reason I agreed to let him have two species, lol. If you know of more species that do well together or have any tips to make it successful, please chime in.
> 
> Also remember that this tank will take us 6-12 months to just get completed. Purchasing frogs after that will take even longer. Very restricted budget here...


Sorry, not trying to be rude, but I doubt you will have anyone chime in on suggestions for mixing morphs or species, especially since you do not have any experience with keeping PDFs. 120g may seem large for such a small frog, but it gets much more complicated then just space available when mixing. You would need years of experience to make this happen, even then like myself, most are against it. With a limited budget, the last thing you want is dead frogs, so please do your research here on mixing. Keep the hobby safe and strong by not mixing and enjoy.


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## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

Another suggestion would be to divide the 120g up into two or three vivs by using siliconed in glass, with some imagination and hard work, you can make it look like one viv.


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## epiphytes etc. (Nov 22, 2010)

You could also just go with one variable morph, like some of the auratus (el cope, super blue, _& bronze, etc.), or, if you are up to the challenge, some bastis.


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for chiming in. I have talked him down to only 2 species, but am still trying to talk him in to only one. Seeing your posts might help him to reconsider. But if not, I do have a knowledgeable source who has been helpful on that subject. So for now, I will just concentrate on the tank...

These are update shots from today:


First pic shows the progress from inside the tank. 







Second pic shows the waterfall runoff, the bog and the bog runoff leading to the river. They have all been GS'd into place now (still wet).







The third pic shows how I supported the main part of the land section. All supports are vented at the bottom to allow water flow.







The fourth pic shows the GS holding the bog and small land section in place. They will not be removable, but there aren't any working parts in this area.







The fifth pic shows a full shot update. The main portion of the land will be the next area to go in. I will silicone the supports in place, then GS the edges.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

epiphytes etc. said:


> You could also just go with one variable morph, like some of the auratus (el cope, super blue, _& bronze, etc.), or, if you are up to the challenge, some bastis.


Just to clarify, you are not recommending keeping two different auratus locales in the same viv right? 

Bastis could make a cool display, but pumilio are more territorial so it may be a problem in groups. With that said, I do not keep any obligates as of now and have no personal experience with them...

Tank looks great so far

John


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

I have no idea what we plan to keep just yet. I would rather have things that won't interbreed. (Although if that were to happen, they would remain with us, not go to anyone else.) I don't know if it is possible to only get males, but that would be another option.

I really don't want to start any debate on here, was just looking for some friendly advice. I have no intention of breeding, but if it should happen... More frogs for me! (I don't share well, lol.)

I know my husband was looking at pics of frogs and found one that was black with red markings. That is the one he really wants, but we never see them in our area. I personally like the black and blues. (I have researched the names and needs, just can't remember them right now...)

I have done more work on the tank, will post some pics tomorrow. The river and the land area are in place. I can't do anymore on that side until I find some gardening cloth. The tree in the other corner will be next, just need to pick up the large bark rounds. The tree will house the pump/filter, and they will be accessible through the top of the tree. We will drill a hole to run the hose through, as well as slits all around the bottom to let the water in. No holes will be big enough for ANYTHING to get through (but the water). Hopefully that will be complete in a couple of weeks.

Then it will be the cloth, sand, and bog materials. Then the dirt mixture, then the plants. Once it comes to plants, it will really slow down. Plants are expensive!

Again, no animals for quite some time (except maybe some shrimp in the water, as I already own a lot of cherry shrimp in my many tanks, lol). The land area will have quite awhile to grow in before any frogs are added. Thanks for everyone's comments!


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

These are the frogs we like:

This is the one the hubby likes








This is the one I like








This is one we both like








I don't know if any of these would work together, they are just frogs we like the look of. Doesn't mean we will get any of them (although the blues and yellows are available locally).

Does anyone have any personal experience with any of these frogs? What can you tell me about them? And since I can't find them online, what is the red frog called? 

All pictures were taken from the net, I hope that is okay.


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## BizaroStormy (Mar 20, 2013)

The yellow one is Dendrobates leucomelas, they are very bold and always out and about climbing on everything. They can be kept in groups.

The blue one is Dendrobates tinctorius "azureus", it is also very bold but is more terrestrial and territorial, most people only keep three in an enclosure at most (two males one female). 

There are care sheets for both these frogs on the forums.

I have both species and really like them both. I am pretty sure they can interbreed so should not be kept together. 

I would suggest the leucomelas because if you get a few you don't have to worry about finding a new home for some of them when they mature. 

I don't know what the red one is but it look awesome and expensive lol. 
Maybe someone else can help you there.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

You will be very unlikely to find one of the red ones. I'm not very familiar with it but I think its probably an Oophaga sylvatica or histrionica morph. It is also likely to be illegal. But, I could be wrong. 

Some more knowegable obligate keepers could probably give you a better idea. 

John


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

This is the progress I have made so far.

Pic one shows the backside of a piece I was experimenting on. I did use it at the front of the tank under the land section... although I will probably be using contact paper on the front and sides of the tank. Pic two is the front side of the piece after GS.














Pic three shows it in the tank.








Pic four shows what the inside of the tank looks like from the right side.








Pic five shows the filter/pump that runs the waterfall. It will be hidden in the tree that will be in that corner, and totally accessible.


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

These are some updated pix from over the last week.

This pic shows the cave GS'd into place. It sits on top of a modified margarine container that acts as a base and creates a secondary cave under the main one. Both caves are independent of each other.







This blob of GS is surrounding a balloon. When it hardened, I cut the top portion off (low in front, high in back) to create a plant pot. The top half will be reused as a cave/hiding spot on the back wall over the pond. Pix of that will be in the next update.







This is a shot from the right of the tank looking towards the waterfall in the back.







This is a shot from the left looking toward the pond. Notice the nice piece of Mopani I was able to pick up. It will serve as one of the access points to the ledge.







Full tank frontal shot, including a plant I plan to use. (although it is in no means definitely going in that spot...)







The plant I picked up called a Frosty Fern. Placement still to be decided...








I am really loving the way this is turning out!


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## Athena (Mar 20, 2013)

Looking good  It's nice to start out with a big tank, you'll enjoy it for a good long time. I have a soft spot for lycophytes, so I love your first plant choice!

Just to be clear about the mixing thing (not an argument, just some truly friendly advice), the kickback about mixing species is not just about hybridizing, although that is definitely a worthy reason not to mix. There is significant stress to the animals, and often death, caused by fighting and territorial behavior between species. In the jungle this isn't that big of a deal, one frog will move, the other will stay, but in a tank there is no where to escape to. Hell, sometimes this happens with too many animals of the _same species_ in one tank (see group frogs vs. not good group frogs).

The consternation of having mixed species is as much about the health and safety of the frogs as it is about screwing up species/population genetics, a fact that is often forgotten. 

You're husband's desire to have lots of colorful frogs is one that pretty much ALL of us share! You'll notice that just about everyone here keeps multiple species. I believe the saying goes: PDF's are like chips... you can't have just one! 

Cheers and best wishes,
-Caroline


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Newest updates. Now I am out of materials and will have to wait another week to get more. I need more silicone, the "tree", and weed blocker to continue.

This first picture is the finished planter.








This is the cave/hide attached to the wall over the pond.








Shot of the planter and cave/hide before background was finished.








Starting to finish the area around the waterfall.








Full tank shot of progress so far.


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Picked up the wood for the tree in the pond area! It comes up a little short from the top... so we decided to wall off the upper area in that corner. More on that in the picture below. Still need to get my silicone and weed blocker. Will probably get the wood in final position by Monday.

The four pieces of wood. You can see they will be short of the top. We are going to take advantage of the space to create a wall with one of the ventilation fans in it. It will also give the future inhabitants no access to this area, while leaving the back completely open to us to work in if needed. You can kind of see two white circles in the bark (middle of top left, top left of bottom right). These will be drilled out to attach two branches. One will jut over the water, one will jut over the land toward the ledge. 








The view from the top down of our tree. Lots of room for my arm or my husbands to get to the bottom. The length of the pump at the bottom is 7".








View from the side of the tank (which is not visible to the room). LOTS of room to play in there if needed. The pieces will not be attached until my husband saws a bunch of slits in the bottom pieces of wood to allow for water flow. The slots will only be about an eight of an inch. (Or do you think a quarter inch would be better?)








Full tank update shot. Wood is just sitting in place for now.








Full tank and the tanks below. This is going to be my green corner. I will have to find a chair to sit in the corner there and just stare at all the greenness that will be...








Lemme know what you think please!


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## Yo-han (Jan 26, 2014)

I noticed Fluval Stratum in your last FTS. Are you using it for the water part or emersed? Can you tell a little more about your substrate plans? I'm still planning mine and am thinking about ADA aqua soil or Fluval for the emersed part.


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

The Fluval is definitely for the pond. I haven't used it before, but I know that it is better than anything I have ever used before. If I am going to make a tank this size, I might as well do it right, lol! I do plan to plant the pond, but I am not set on any certain plants yet, although I am sure I will have an Anubias in there (I have one growing emersed in my FBT tank and it is awesome). The substrate I plan to have at least an inch an a half deep, maybe a little more.

For the land, I was going to mix plain potting soil and plantation soil. Unless someone can tell me if I need/should add something else to the mix. I want the soil to be covered with moss eventually, with plants growing through it.

To cover the seems in the wood tree, I will use GS in the back then silicone plantation soil and Spanish moss on the front in places. I plan to have some mini boulders at the base of the tree with some plant to disguise the bottom but not block water flow.

Thanks for the questions. Anything else?


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## Bob1000 (Jan 15, 2014)

When I made my enclosure I had to put vinyl screen over the pond area.. Almost lost 2 frogs tincs don't swim well.. I still have the pond and use with the waterfall, but you can't see the waterfall I had to tree fern panels over the pvc waterfall so they weren't swept away and drown.. Have you given any thought to the pond in terms of what I just mentioned?? Im still new and planning another build but with even more thought than my first one..


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Hi Bob1000, I did think about that. I plan to have quite a few escape routes available to the frogs. There will be a rock leaning against one side to climb out, an old shell will provide another way out, and we plan to add many branches in the water as well. I want the under water section to have twigs that look a little like roots at the base of the tree held in place with rocks, as well as some emersed plants and maybe some floating plants. I obviously never hope to see a frog harmed in the pond, but (maybe prematurely) I think what I have planned will work. 

We will be retesting the waterfall and river very soon. I need to see how high the water gets in the river portion before I can trim back the pvc and finish the edges. I would hate to cut it too low and find out the flow was higher than I thought!

I did get some more work done on the tree (or rather my husband did, since he wanted to claim the tree and the river for himself, lol) and will post some updated pictures soon.


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Newest shots. But I am tired and will keep it short. 
Feel free to ask any questions though!


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Just a couple of quick update shots. Been glued to the Olympics, so it has been even slower going, lol. Still need to second coat the thin spots on the background. Go team Canada!


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

For those of you who might be interested, check out my video of all my tanks (both complete and in progress):

Tour of my Tanks - YouTube


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

So we finished the water testing and checking the flow on the waterfall. You can see it for yourself in the attached video. We are very happy with it. Time to put the finishing touches on the background, put the dirt in and plant it. This will take time as plants aren't cheap! Building the box for the top will take a little time as my husband wants to have everything going into the box before he starts. So there will be a long time for growing in, lol. Again, no frogs in the immediate future... but maybe some shrimp and killifish in the water next month...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blKnBIwBdQ&list=UU0KpycEFuDCFLAPdATpWH-w&feature=c4-overview


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

Newest update on the tank:


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

There are a couple of other plants now, just no pics of them yet. We still need to cover the sides of the tank to hide the unpretty parts. We still need to cover the fan with screening. We still need to build a lid for the tank. Right now it is just growing in.


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## jocie1976 (Oct 12, 2012)

It's been a long time since I updated this! While there has been absolutely no progress (or start) on a lid for this beast yet, I am very happy with the way it has grown in. I have lost some plants while others have taken off. I also added 3 Zebra Danios to the pond to water test it for me. All water parameters are normal, but I'd still rather chance cheap fish than expensive ones. (I want Killi's in the pond.) The danios love this tank. From day one they have been swimming up stream, through the bog and into the waterfall basin. And now, only 2 weeks in the tank, we have zebra fry in the area behind the tree that houses the filter. I'll post a link the the newest videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz-...omment_id=z13ye5cbfuzbhzeya04cgvxytxnecf4hqe0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj0KwCrLdlA&list=UU0KpycEFuDCFLAPdATpWH-w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfjJTH-Yhh4&list=UU0KpycEFuDCFLAPdATpWH-w


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