# Frog Problem, help!



## Pip (Nov 3, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I’ve had my Azureus for about 1.5 years and she was healthy and eating well. Saturday I fed her and didn’t notice anything wrong. She ate like a champ as normal. Sunday I didn’t observe her much as was taking care of some things, but come Monday morning I noticed something was very wrong. 

She was struggling to move and when hopping she was actually doing backflips. I quickly removed her and placed in a quarantine tank so I can keep an eye on her. She seems to be leaning over to the right side and when she moves she almost always is falling over to the right. She struggles to keep her balance. She is trying to eat but seems to be missing the target each time.

I dusted flies with Rep-Cal Calcium with VIT D each feeding. I’ve been told in a Facebook group I’m in that Vitamin A is also needed and unfortunately I was not dusting with that. 

At this point, I am not sure what to do to help her. I saw online some people do a vitamin bath. I ordered Repashy Calcium Plus and Vitamin A as I was told these are better than Rep-Cal. Should I try the bath to get vitamins to her? Any other ideas of what might be the issue and why it came about suddenly?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Fill this out, please:









Read before posting! Fill this out to help troubleshoot...


Answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste -- please don't quote because that makes it hard to read the responses): 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)? 2. What are your...




www.dendroboard.com





At first glance, it looks to be a debilitating vitamin deficiency, and if so your frog will need to see a qualified exotics vet. You can search for one here:









Find a frog vet: search for an Association of Reptile...


If you need vet care for a frog or other herp, the best care will come from a qualified exotics vet. Many, if not most, of those providers will be members of the Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians -- ARAV. Their website has a search feature to find a qualified exotics vet near...




www.dendroboard.com


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## Pip (Nov 3, 2020)

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ?

Azureus, 1.5 years, Josh’s Frogs

2. What are your temperatures -day and night - highs and lows ? Are the enclosure lights too hot ?
70-73 degrees, lights are LEDs and not too hot

3. What is the Humidity like ? - Percentage or guesstimate. What type of Water are you using? Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top.

80+% with distilled water. 12x12x18 exoteric with plexiglass cover over the screen to keep humidity up. 

4. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it ? What superfine powdered supplements are you using and are they fresh ?

Springtails and fruit flies dusted with Rep-Cal Calcium with Vit D. Expiration on powder says expired 11/21.

5. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently ? Tankmates / other frogs ?

No

6. Any type of behaviour you would consider 'odd' ?

Leaning to the right side, struggling to move and often falling over to the right. Struggling to catch flies but is still trying to eat.

7. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?

No

8. Can you take pictures of EVERYTHING ? The frogs, the enclosure ? Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help.





Socratic Monologue said:


> Fill this out, please:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pip (Nov 3, 2020)

Not giving me the option to post pictures for some reason



Pip said:


> 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ?
> 
> Azureus, 1.5 years, Josh’s Frogs
> 
> ...





Pip said:


> 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ?
> 
> Azureus, 1.5 years, Josh’s Frogs
> 
> ...


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Just drag and drop pics.

Hopefully others will give input, but in the meantime I'd make a vet appointment. Sounds like vitamin deficiency, as you've suspected. There are other issues, with the viv size and lack of ventilation, but that's not causing those symptoms.


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## Pip (Nov 3, 2020)

Yes, I know the enclosure size is concern and I literally made a larger enclosure 2 weeks ago and was letting the plants and clean up crew take hold before moving her over. There is ventilation in the top as it is not fully covered. 

Thanks for your help. I will reach out to a vet today.



Socratic Monologue said:


> Just drag and drop pics.
> 
> Hopefully others will give input, but in the meantime I'd make a vet appointment. Sounds like vitamin deficiency, as you've suspected. There are other issues, with the viv size and lack of ventilation, but that's not causing those symptoms.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

All good advice here. Many years ago, I used Rep Cal products seemingly without issue; but upon returning to the hobby I've heard there were some issues with usability and uptake for dart frogs as regards their products.

Also, do you refrigerate your supplements and how often do you replace them?

I presently use Repashy supplements and keep them refrigerated after opening; replacing all of them every 6 months with fresh products.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Pip said:


> Springtails and fruit flies dusted with Rep-Cal Calcium with Vit D. Expiration on powder says expired 11/21.





Fahad said:


> used Rep Cal products seemingly without issue


Both the products, I'm assuming, Fahad? Herptivite has to be used in conjunction with their Calcium with D3. @Pip is apparently not using the Herptivite.


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## Pip (Nov 3, 2020)

Fahad said:


> All good advice here. Many years ago, I used Rep Cal products seemingly without issue; but upon returning to the hobby I've heard there were some issues with usability and uptake for dart frogs as regards their products.
> 
> Also, do you refrigerate your supplements and how often do you replace them?
> 
> I presently use Repashy supplements and keep them refrigerated after opening; replacing all of them every 6 months with fresh products.


I am switching to Repashy because someone in another forum said something similar about Rep-Cal usability issues. I will be sure to refrigerate and replace every 6 months as suggested. Thanks


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Both the products, I'm assuming, Fahad? Herptivite has to be used in conjunction with their Calcium with D3. @Pip is apparently not using the Herptivite.


Ah, yes. _Both of them_. It was about a decade ago. 😬

***EDIT: Lies! It was closer to _20_ years ago. 😬 😬 😬

Now I just use Repashy, although I'm very curious to try out the Ranarium carotenoid supplement, based on my own results I won't be discontinuing any Repashy products anytime soon, although I'm not averse to adding some things into the rotation from time to time.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Both the products, I'm assuming, Fahad? Herptivite has to be used in conjunction with their Calcium with D3. @Pip is apparently not using the Herptivite.


Don't know if you saw the edit, but it was more like 20 years. Wow. But on a related note, when did Repashy supplements go 'mainstream' so to speak? I know he's been at it for a very long time, and reading his posts here in the archives goes a long way to instilling confidence.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I recall those Rep Cal products from back in the day (in the 90s I used them), during the 'Vitamin A overdose' scare, when folks switched to only pre-Vit A without really thinking it through. The two-part formula was, and is, a pain.

That Ranarium carotenoid product looks OK (like SuperPig), but the Rana-Vit looks really sketchy. Between the Maca Root, many missing vits (yeah, they are in the maca root, but an unregulated, non-standardized supplement product that is used primarily as a libido enhancer isn't something I'd trust) and a typo in the analysis, it doesn't look good.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Fahad said:


> Don't know if you saw the edit, but it was more like 20 years. Wow. But on a related note, when did Repashy supplements go 'mainstream' so to speak? I know he's been at it for a very long time, and reading his posts here in the archives goes a long way to instilling confidence.


I don't know exactly, but here's a thread from 2007 that doesn't even mention the products:









To recomend vitamins and supplements


Sorry, but I don´t understand the ratio A: D3:E... where I must watch that? :oops:




www.dendroboard.com





...and around about 2009 Allen was in the process of 'selling' (too strong a word; the products sell themselves, really) the DB members on his line. So sometime about the late 2000s.

Hope you don't take all this as a hijack, @Pip -- it is central to your issue, I think.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

I would also point out that you almost never hear about spindly leg syndrome or short tongue (I might be getting that one wrong since it has been so long since I read about it) or anything like that anymore which I attribute to the rise of more appropriate supplementation. Anytime someone mentions something about it these days, it's because they weren't supplementing correctly.

Pip, I think you are making the right call moving over to Repashy products (with the refrigeration and 6 month replacement that @Fahad mentioned). I don't think I have ever seen a veteran dart frog keeper on this board advocating the use of Rep Cal products over Repashy's line. I don't believe you will be disappointed with your decision to go with Repashy.

Mark


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