# UV Light



## ckreef (Aug 29, 2008)

I was wondering how many people use UV light over thier dart frogs? If you do use UV how are you setting up the light? I have glass tops and I know it wont penitrate glass. Can you see any differences in your frogs from using UV? Thanks Chris


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Everyone keeps trying to recommend a glass but I think Solacryl is the best way to go. It's an acrylic that passes 70 percent UV (or so). 

You'll want to mess with the distance they sit from your frog. You'll have to come up with that info yourself as I'm not going to suggest anything, yet.

-Nish


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Im in the process of replacing all my lids with solacryl, as I feel a strong enough case has been made for the benefits of UVB. I do use uvb bulbs already, as the bulbs I use have a uvb rating, and I just want to give the frogs the best I can.


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## ckreef (Aug 29, 2008)

Where are you getting Solacryl?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

from a local greenhouse suply store... sample pieces


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## ckreef (Aug 29, 2008)

Wish we had some good greenhouse supply stores here. I dont know where I could get some Solacryl. I would love to get some to try out on my 120 set up. How thick is this product? Do you think it will warp from the humidity?


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

all my vivs except my exo terra has surran wrapped screan lids. i use the same screan lids the tank comes with but i just surran wrap it.. it looks very neat and holds alot of moisture. and as for lighting i simply use UV full spectrum lights they come packaged ready to go just pull them out of the box and use. the guy i get my supplys from hasnt had them in a while so he sent me over a zoo med hood and i just stuck a T-5 bulb i had laying around in it and everything seems fine. i guess its whatever you like really.. years ago i did a study on verious different animals raised with uv vs raised with not and to keep it fair i was giving uv or not to animals right from hatching and there is no true NEED for it but the aninals raised on uv showed slightly faster growth, ate larger quanity of food, and was seen exploring the tanks more. i use it because uv just happens to be good lighting lol. and my lights just sit on top of my tanks.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

DCreptiles said:


> i guess its whatever you like really..


I wouldn't say this is the case.

I think (just a guess, I have no evidense to back this up), that if people were given the opportunity of using UVB light or not, and both options cost the same amount, people would pick the option with UVB. The money required for new bulbs, Solacryl ect can be a lot, and since its not an absolute necessity (somewhat debatable) people are likey to overlook its benefits. 



DCreptiles said:


> years ago i did a study on verious different animals raised with uv vs raised with not and to keep it fair i was giving uv or not to animals right from hatching and there is no true NEED for it but the aninals raised on uv showed slightly faster growth, ate larger quanity of food, and was seen exploring the tanks more. i use it because uv just happens to be good lighting lol. and my lights just sit on top of my tanks.


Can you elaborate on this Derek? what species this study was done on, how big the control group was ect.

And, just to clarify, there are 3 types of UV light, UVA, UVB, and UVC. UVA is visible to humans but UVB is not. UVB is responsible for synthesizing D3 in many cheleons and agamids ect. 

this article does a good job outlining the benefits/strengths of many of the commercially available bulbs

Reptile Lighting


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Just some comments here.. 

The use of UVB can be considered to be a method to optimize circulating D3 levels in the exposed animals. Supplementation if provided correctly, will allow for sufficient D3 to meet the minimal metabolic needs of the animals but research in other animals percieved to not need exposure to UVB (snakes!) is showing that if given the option, they will bask and optimize the levels of D3 in thier blood. 

See AVMA - American Journal of Veterinary Research - 69(2):294 - Abstract

http://etd.tcu.edu/etdfiles/available/etd-12072006-084741/unrestricted/brinker.pdf

for some good basic starter information. 

With respect to many dendrobatids, I would suspect that they only need limited exposure to the UVB and would have to be provided with sheltered calling sites etc as they have been shown in the wild to avoid excess exposure and to choose sheltered calling perches if there is an option. If they follow the pattern for some other subcanopy herps, then they might actually be efficient in converting provitamin D to D3 with a lesser exposure. 

Ed


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## Rich Conley (Jun 12, 2008)

nish07 said:


> Everyone keeps trying to recommend a glass but I think Solacryl is the best way to go. It's an acrylic that passes 70 percent UV (or so).
> 
> You'll want to mess with the distance they sit from your frog. You'll have to come up with that info yourself as I'm not going to suggest anything, yet.
> 
> -Nish


There are plenty of brands of low iron glass that pass >70% UV. Noval and Starphire are two. Both allow higher UV transmission than Solacryl, and won't warp under humidity. 


check out the charts in this:

BioOne Online Journals - Spectral Properties of Selected UV-blocking and UV-transmitting Covering Materials with Application for Production of High-value Crops in High Tunnels?


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Unfortunately I don't have my journal access atm.  Last I heard, the range of UVB that starphire let through was very narrow (as in only a few nm next to UVA). Someone needs to quote that range and the optimum range for conversion of D to D3 with citations for me to believe it. Until then, I'm going with what I remember finding out myself through research. Solacryl works and if it's framed it won't warp unless you're heating the crap out of it with lights right on top of it.

-Nish


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## Rich Conley (Jun 12, 2008)

nish07 said:


> Unfortunately I don't have my journal access atm. Last I heard, the range of UVB that starphire let through was very narrow (as in only a few nm next to UVA). Someone needs to quote that range and the optimum range for conversion of D to D3 with citations for me to believe it. Until then, I'm going with what I remember finding out myself through research. Solacryl works and if it's framed it won't warp unless you're heating the crap out of it with lights right on top of it.
> 
> -Nish


You don't need access. Figure one is freely visible down at the bottom of the extract.


Starphire has over 95% transmission down to about 280nm then drops off drastically, hitting zero transmission at about 260nm. 

Solacryl, aka UV Transmitting plexi, has about 88% transmission, dropping to 0 at about 260nm. 

UVA is defined as 400-320nm.
UVB is defined as 320-280nm. 
UVC is defined as 280-100nm, and is germicidal. 

In the context of our discussion, the solacryl is slightly inferior to low iron glass, although its probably not a noticeable difference.


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## Toby_H (Apr 6, 2009)

So is it generally accepted that our frogs will be perfectly healthy without UV... but will hold a slight advantage with UV...

I am at the point of making a lid for my Viv and am stalling as I'm undecided about using UV or not. I have all the materials I need to make it without UV laying aroudn the house... if I add UV then I'll be making several modifications which will require a few additional supplies.

More persuasive opinions of the experienced / educated froggers would be very appreciated. Is it worth delaying things a few days until I can get to the store and adding the cost of additional materials?


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## Estrato (Jan 6, 2009)

Toby_H said:


> So is it generally accepted that our frogs will be perfectly healthy without UV... but will hold a slight advantage with UV...
> 
> I am at the point of making a lid for my Viv and am stalling as I'm undecided about using UV or not. I have all the materials I need to make it without UV laying aroudn the house... if I add UV then I'll be making several modifications which will require a few additional supplies.
> 
> More persuasive opinions of the experienced / educated froggers would be very appreciated. Is it worth delaying things a few days until I can get to the store and adding the cost of additional materials?


I use a UV bulb in my pumilio breeding tank since their froglets have problems with calcium deficiency, as do other froglets, but not to such a large degree as pums. If you plan on breeding your frogs you may as well add a space for a UV bulb.


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm sorry but "figure one" shows a value closer to 310nm (possibly even closer to 325nm) as to where the wavelength of light is cut off.

The peak wavelength for vitamin D3 synthesis is 297nm. While this is close to the 300nm mark, I'm not convinced based on a wide spectrum graph that doesn't have gradients showing where the exact dropoff point is. If I were able to read the entire paper, there might be some information that would help to clarify things.

If anyone has access to that paper, I'd appreciate it if they could send it my way.

-Nish



Rich Conley said:


> You don't need access. Figure one is freely visible down at the bottom of the extract.
> 
> 
> Starphire has over 95% transmission down to about 280nm then drops off drastically, hitting zero transmission at about 260nm.
> ...


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

which uv lights are everyone using?


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Rich Conley said:


> You don't need access. Figure one is freely visible down at the bottom of the extract.
> 
> 
> Starphire has over 95% transmission down to about 280nm then drops off drastically, hitting zero transmission at about 260nm.
> ...


Mike (Corpus Callosum) did some research on this subject and his results (from the manufacturer's specs) differed substantially from what you've posted here. Maybe someone could look into this again and reconcile all this.


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Yes, thanks Fur.

That's what I had remember hearing. Starphire transmits next to 0 UVB in the range of D3 synthesis. Borofloat may or may not be adequate (I want to see more testing there). Solacryl works but -may- warp and needs to be replaced every 3 years. A UV meter might be handy in these applications.

-Nish


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## Toby_H (Apr 6, 2009)

I believe it was DCReptiles that shared how he wrapped screen tops in Saran Wrap. I'm confident I could make such a seal using only 2 or 3 ply of wrap. Am I being overly naive to assume this thin layer would not interfere with UVB penetration?

For those of you who are using UV and are convinced it is improving the health of your frogs, what are you using to protect your lights from the high humidity environment?


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## Estrato (Jan 6, 2009)

Toby_H said:


> I believe it was DCReptiles that shared how he wrapped screen tops in Saran Wrap. I'm confident I could make such a seal using only 2 or 3 ply of wrap. Am I being overly naive to assume this thin layer would not interfere with UVB penetration?
> 
> For those of you who are using UV and are convinced it is improving the health of your frogs, what are you using to protect your lights from the high humidity environment?


Protecting the lights? If they are above a screen you mean? Theyll be on the outside of your viv, and any air around them will be fairly dry because of how warm the bulbs are.
I dont think saran will interfere with UV, but Im not sure.


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

I've been told seran wrap will allow UVB through, however, a reptile screen top will cut out 30% of it. If the seran wrap gets cloudy due to junk sticking to it, it may lose some of it's ability to transmit UVB too. Those two things together could cause quite a bit of UVB blocking.

I'll stick to the solacryl for now. 

-Nish


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## Link3898 (Sep 18, 2008)

ive often wondered how far the UVB penetrates into the viv before it becomes inaffective. 7" to 12" from the bulb? 15"? 30"? 
would wattage of the bulb affect this at all? what about bulb style? tube vs. spiral? also would high quality reflectors increase the ammount of UVB reaching the frogs to make it worth buying?


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