# Questions on making a background with Titebond III



## MrNerodia (Feb 26, 2011)

Hello,

I am getting ready to build a background for an 18" x 18" x 24" Exo Terra that will house a pair of Gold Dust Day Geckos (P. laticauda). I have done some research and am interested in the Greatstuff + Titebond 3 method; I would appreciate some input. 

Questions:

1.) Is it better to slather on the Titebond III to the background and then press on the organic materials, or is it better to mix the Titebond and organic materials and apply the mixture? 

2.) Is it good to apply just one organic component (i.e. peat), or is it good to apply a variety? I want the background to support plant growth.

3.) Should the organic materials be moist or dry when applying?

4.) Do geckos have any problem climbing on a background like this? I know most people use these backgrounds in frog vivariums, so I was just wondering.

5.) I would like to make the background removable. What are some good materials to use as a base for the background? (I was thinking egg crate)

6.) Does anyone have any pictures of backgrounds they made with the Titebond method?

Thank you for your time!


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

1. Better to mix it with the substrate and then apply it in my experience. If you can, glue that has been dehydrated a bit (making it really thick) works best... how you do this best is just let it set out for a bit but not too long. Or keep the jar around long enough and it naturally dehydrates a bit and gets REALLY thick.
2. If you want plants, I would do a variety. I typically use ABG so that there is sphagnum and other bits in it that allow moisture to be held and help plants have something to grab onto, etc. You will still need to use epiphytes ad keep it very humid to have plants growing on it.
3. Slightly moisten them before adding the glue, helps the glue stick to everything better... just want them barely damp though.
4. I really dont have any input as I dont keep geckos... hopefully someone else can give you input. I wouldnt think that they would have any issues though.
5. Egg crate works, some people use the foam board that signs are printed on, could also use insulation sheet foam Id imagine.
6. I will link to a pic of one I did in a minute with cork bark.


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.347755045345157.1073741825.219769814810348&type=3


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## Trey (Sep 10, 2008)

Mr. Nerodia.... Must be a fan of water snakes. I got nailed hard by a big N. sipedon yesterday.


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## Raptor22 (Nov 23, 2012)

Geckos do great on silicone based great stuff backgrounds. I think it is a pretty safe bet that titebond would be just as good or better


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I disagree with Mikes suggestion of it being damp before mixing.

Ive mixed it dry & damp ... and its always cured better when the substrate is mixed dry.

Not to say he's wrong, but thats just my opinion based on my own experience.


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

My Crested Geckos do great climbing my foam background. They certainly don't have the climbing skills of Day Geckos, so I would be shocked if your geckos could not scale it with ease. 

After I carved my foam background, I bushed sections of it with TB3, I then pressed in dry organic peat. I chose this method for a few reasons. First. it dries quick. Second, it shows off the texture of the foam background better than applying a paste would. 

I'm sure Mike's responses are good, but I don't doubt that Gamble is correct on his input. That being said, I have not seen any good reason why making a paste is the way to go in the first place. Then again, we are probably splitting hairs here. Good luck with your build, you will be glad you did it! 

Feel free to pm me your email If you would like to see a picture of my 3' tall gecko viv.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

ecichlid said:


> My Crested Geckos do great climbing my foam background. They certainly don't have the climbing skills of Day Geckos, so I would be shocked if your geckos could not scale it with ease.
> 
> After I carved my foam background, I bushed sections of it with TB3, I then pressed in dry organic peat. I chose this method for a few reasons. First. it dries quick. Second, it shows off the texture of the foam background better than applying a paste would.
> 
> ...


You are correct, when using a foam background, painting then pressing is the best method. It allows you to get into all the crevices better & for all of the other reasons youve specified.
But if doing it on a flat background, such as straight glass, I definitely recommend using the paste application.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Gamble said:


> I disagree with Mikes suggestion of it being damp before mixing.
> 
> Ive mixed it dry & damp ... and its always cured better when the substrate is mixed dry.
> 
> Not to say he's wrong, but thats just my opinion based on my own experience.


I agree with Gamble.
I've used this GS + Titebond III before and I'm in the process of doing 3 more vivs right now. I usually only use a big bale of dried peat I get from Lowe's. I prefer it to be totally dry. I use a 1"-2" paint brush to slather on the glue rather thick. I then cover
The glue with peat and repeatedly press it into the glue. You want to make sure it gets into every little crevice. Even the best application still leaves some holes do expect to do some touch up work. 
I'll try and post some pics in a couple of days when I'm done with the touch ups.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Here's an older viv I've done using this method.


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## xTimx (Mar 14, 2013)

i have a Q. 

using Titebond 3 glue, what mixture of substrate or rather what substrate is great for a really dark look? can you use top soil? thats almost like a black look, which i think would look good.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

I don't think top soil should ever be used for anything in a dart frog viv. Try the big bale of dried peat. Once it dries with the glue it is a very dark color, not black but very dark nonetheless.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I don't think top soil should ever be used for anything in a dart frog viv. Try the big bale of dried peat. Once it dries with the glue it is a very dark color, not black but very dark nonetheless.


I agree.
Ive also used ABG as well & that gets pretty dark too.


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## Trey (Sep 10, 2008)

I tried both and I prefer making the paste, I think it looks better once it dries as well.


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## Boboluke (Apr 12, 2013)

I spread a super thin layer on the GS and sprinkled on a bit of eco earth as a first layer just to seal up the GS. For the actual background I went with paste. This was mainly due to my carving job on the GS rating somewhere between "horrible" and "I'll just point this one facing the wall." 

The paste makes it rather easy to build up ledges and a great texture.


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

Boboluke said:


> This was mainly due to my carving job on the GS rating somewhere between "horrible" and "I'll just point this one facing the wall."


 I don't care who you are, that's funny!


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## JPccusa (Mar 10, 2009)

Gamble said:


> I disagree with Mikes suggestion of it being damp before mixing.
> 
> Ive mixed it dry & damp ... and its always cured better when the substrate is mixed dry.
> 
> Not to say he's wrong, but thats just my opinion based on my own experience.


I think because TB III is water based, a wet substrate will dilute it a little, hence the difference in how they cure. 

I used it dry on my background, and I tried both the "slurry" and the "glue then substrate" methods. The latter is easier to do. It is also easier to get the crevices covered. 

Another thing I like about this method is that you can go back and cover the inevitable "bald spots," unlike the silicone method (fresh silicone does not adhere to cured silicone). 

Here is my build: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...0-horizontal-90g-display-tank.html#post775596


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

Nice 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## Polypodium (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi All,

The above photo is a practice drill I did with my 6 year old son. It is the yellow great stuff sprayed with no real thought other then to cover a piece of cardboard and small pot. We then painted it will TitebondIII and covered with 3 parts dry coco fiber and one dry part organic peat. I waited 24 hours to check it and the the above photo is the result.

I am not new to vivarium's but this method. Is it common to have to touch up this application like so? I was curios will it touch up OK with another layer of Titebond over the bare spots? 

Additionally, 10 minutes after I removed the excess substrate and stood it up, a little waterfall of glue came pouring out from the middle. This was 24 hours after the application. How long does this stuff take to dry? 

I have a 24" x 18" x 24" Exo Terra black silicones on three sides and was wonder how many days each side is going to take with this method.

Thanks in advance for any advice from your experiences or words of encouragement..

Gary


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

Good questions Gary.

It does not hurt to practice. Do you like the "noodle" look? If so, great. If not, carve it with a steak knife after it has cured. It will give you more rugged look. If you know you are going to be doing some carving, you may need a thicker layer of foam. DO NOT make the mistake of doing all of your foam at once. Do the foam in layers with a proper cure time between each layer.

Don't be surprised if you missed a spot after your coco fiber/peat moss has dried and you have brushed it away. Just apply glue to the bare areas (you can go over areas that are not bare as well) and then press some of your mixture back on. 

The glue drip happened because you had a pocket of glue in the background. I have seen this before. If you don't have a pocket, the glue dries in hours. If you have a pocket and it is not exposed to much air, it could take a very long time to cure. Avoid the voids! 

Keep going, you are on the right track!


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

What I like to do is build up thin layers of TB3+Organics. I Get initial coverage with the first thin layer then I go back and touch up or even ad layers on to give a varied look. Its a really simple method but I would recommend thin layers to keep the drying times down.


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## Polypodium (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi ecichlid and diggenem,

Thanks for the replies and advice/ pointers. I have just touched up sections of my practice run and will review tomorrow evening. If all goes well I will be spraying my tank this weekend with the black foam.

FYI, the can of yellow Great Stuff that I used was about 5 years old and was left over from filling some cracks around the house. It was pretty depressed when I used it and I had to fight to get every drop out hence the noodle look.The real one will have much more of a naturalistic attempt.

Thanks again and I'll be posting the progress.

Gary


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## xTimx (Mar 14, 2013)

just got a Quick Q for you. when laying on the oatmeal state substrate to the back wall, obviously you're going to have your tank laying on its backside while your applying it to the back wall or side or what ever you're going to be doing to it. 
my Q is, despite the length of time it takes to dry, do you leave it layed on its backside to cure or can you flip it in the middle of the week to start doing like the sides of the tank?


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## diggenem (Sep 2, 2011)

After a day or so you can turn it. What I do also to sppeed things up is get a clip fan and have it blow inside the tank to circulate some air. It seems to work


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## toksyn (Mar 5, 2011)

Another suggestion if you want a more "random" / natural / chaotic look - you can tear off chunks at a time instead of using a knife. The knife gives you straight faces, more or less, but you'll have to keep taking slivers out to break up the lines again. Tearing gives the foam a more random elevation.


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## tinkgirl77 (Dec 30, 2012)

This was very helpful info! Thanks so very much for sharing!


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I would greatly like an opinion on my build http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/132026-rock-build.html

Or if you don't want to see a new link, here's a pic of my next challenge.

106_1733 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

I'm hoping that someone can give me advise on how to attack this project. Granted I might make a couple of tries with cardboard or reticulated cardboard (plastic).

The plan is to just get the space filled in between the rocks.
Siliconing the rocks onto the glass and applying the titebond don't seem like a good route since I got some hard to reach areas.

(1)Given I don't know the amount of time that I got to place the substrate on the glue. If I had an hour or so. I could use some acrylic paint to change the color of the glue, spread the glue on the glass, place the rocks, then cover the rest of the glue areas with peat moss (might mix in treefern fiber).

(2)another route would be to mix the glue and peat, cover glass with it, then place the fake rocks (they are very light). But I'm thinking that adding the peat moss will weaken the glue's strength. So that path might not be a good one.

(3)Mark around the rocks with a marker, and add the titebond mix (mixed together), obviously I will have some overlapping. But will have a clean spot to silicone the fake rock to the glass.

Any ideas from anybody that has experience with the Titebond 3 method is greatly appreciated.


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