# Diagnosis Pleaseeee?



## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Hello all. Well, my batch of Vittatus finally decided to lay a clutch on one of their petrie dishes in their tank! Anywho, these eggs are black. Which is what I originally thought they were supposed to look like. Well, I could ramble on and on here, but my experience with these guys is limited to having dad lay tads in the water pools, catching one clutch when the tads were a few days before hatching, one clutch that was already bad, and one clutch that was already somewhat developed. So, I've never had the chance of getting to see a clutch fully develop from the beginning. So, this is what I'd like to have you answer if you could.

Clutch 1 in petrie dish.
Fertile thus far? (They look it to me)
I pulled them. I didn't want what happened to the last (next photo) clutch to happen to these. Should I have, or should I have waited to make sure they were fertilized? I've heard that, with Vittatus, if you've found the eggs laid, chances are they're already fertilized. I've heard they're especially quick with this.









Clutch 2
Found on 8/28 looking like this:









Pulled on 8/31 looking like this: 









I'm guessing the missing eggs are because of female egg eating. But that's a thing of the past now, I guess.

Anwho, they now look like this:









Tad:
1: I've never seen it move, but it's the only one that looks like a fully-formed tad. No sign of white underneath at all. Looks healthy to me.
2: This one moves quite frequently. Every time I open the top to have a peek in and get fresh air in the container, he wiggles. Looks fine to me.
3: I've never seen it move, and the white on his belly concerns me. Should it? It looks more rough and rugged than the white on the others. 
4: Never seen it move, but there's only slight residuals of the white on the bottom. He seems to be developing fine to me.
5: Lone tad that molded over. 

Any help with all of the above questions would be greatly appreciated. I know it's an ear-full, but I'm in "worried parent" mode right now, and I could really use the assistance. 

Thanks so much! 
Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

1, 2, and, 4 look to me like they're about ready to come out. Not sure what's going on with 3.

Can't tell what the water level is around them. You want them to be surrounded by water but not submerged. When their tails are straightened out, they should be ready. If they don't come out, you can help them out by breaking open their sacks and releasing them. Then get them into their tad water. They might not move a lot, or at all, at first. That's ok. After a couple days, drop just a little food in their tad container.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

3 is dead or has a fungal infection


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Tad 4 is starting to look like tad 3. 

Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

What I would do is cut the tads out of their sacks and put them in their tad water. Now, I'm not saying that this is the *right* thing to do. Just that it is what I would do. I've been known to do the wrong thing.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I was thinking about codling just that. But I tried to think of why I should, and I can't really come up with anything. So, why would you do this? Maybe you can talk me into it. They're clearly old enough. They've been in the eggs for at least 15 days now. Maybe a little longer.

Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If they need to come out, but, can't they'll die. They lose their gills and need to be able to breath. (I think this is right. Maybe you should wait until someone with more experience shows up).


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

The eggs looked submerged, which could have led to the developmental failures of some of the tads. 

JBear


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

They're not submerged. They've got just enough tad tea to touch the outsides of the egg clutch.

So what should I do from here?

Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

There's really only 2 things you can do. Wait and see if they break out of their sacks or cut them out. Either way, they could live or die, as with any tadpole

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I submerge the eggs once the tads are fully formed and are straight inside the egg. I think that it helps them get out easier. Sometimes squirting them with a turkey baster will encourage them to leave the egg sack if they're having trouble doing it themselves.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Don't submerge the tads, IMO. They need very little water when they first hatch, so don't worry too much about that.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

I checked on the little guys today and 1 and 2 were still alive and twitching about, flipping over and whatnot. The rest of the tads had all clouded over! So, I did cut them out and put them in their respective cups. These are my first in 16oz cups instead of 32oz cups. I guess only time will tell now..

Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I know how nerve wracking that is! Keep us updated with how they are doing.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

frogface said:


> Don't submerge the tads, IMO. They need very little water when they first hatch, so don't worry too much about that.


I agree with frogface. Don't submerge tads in too much tea water the first few days and gradually add tea water.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

They're in about 1/2" now. Just enough for them to be covered, and still have room to swim about. They both seem to be doing just fine so far, though. 

Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

They should be fine. I was referring to not completely covering them when they are still in the sack. When moving them to a cup, you need only be concerned that the water is shallow enough for them to swim up to the top for air, when they are newly emerged. Some folks start with 1/4 or 1/2 inch and then add more water after a few days. Other plop them right into a cup full.


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

That's exactly what I've done with my other 8. These will follow suit. 

By the way, the clutch of 15 was actually a clutch of 11. And all seem to be doing great:

Nikon D300s
Sigma 180mm F/3.5 EX DG HSM APO IF Macro lens
Nikon SB-600



















Mark


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Great pictures!


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

frogface said:


> Great pictures!


Indeed!!!!


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Thank you both!

Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Alrighty, well, I'm at day 17 with these guys. They are all detached from the jelly and swimming freely around inside the egg, and have been for about 3 or 4 days now. 

How long would you wait for them to break out before taking action and getting them out yourself? I don't want them to die in there..

Mark


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## Markw (Jun 27, 2011)

Well, these guys are hatching quite rapidly. I came home last night to two hatched and swimming about, with one that still had only his tail in the egg. I woke up this morning with him all the way out, and another two out. Both of the latter (I expect) were still suspended in the egg matter, trying to get to the water. So, I lightly flushed them off with the water that was in the petrie dish, and they were swimming around in the dish in no time. So, I've got 5 tads swimming about in their tad containers now, with 6 more eggs I suspect to hatch today. Super exciting! 

Mark


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