# frogs don't dig bean beetles?



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Anyone else experience their frogs not being too gung ho about bean beetles?

They(subadult azureus) eat them, but often will spit the large ones out. Will this change as they grow older?

I'm not sure if it is related but I don't see as much foraging-they tend to cluster together in a corner and dig into the kitty litter or climb the background. Either they like the clay for whatever reason, or what it possibly seems to be is that they are staying away from the center of the tank where food is added. Temps are in the mid 70's btw.

I read an anecdote on someone selectively breeding smaller bean beetles and ending up with adults 25% the size of the original stock. Does anyone have any experience with this? It seems quite tedious but if they would stay small with minimal work itd be worth it.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

I think they'll out grow spitting out the larger ones. My Leucomelas did the same thing as sub adults but as adults they ravage them.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

It can also be a reflex action if they have only been fed flies or other soft-bodied prey in the recent past. Kind of like expecting tapioca and getting a saltine. If they get beetles regularly, it won't be as big of a shock.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

I tried bean beetles years ago with mixed results. Some animals were okay with them.(But not overly fond of them). And other animals wouldnt eat them after trying them the first time.
Actually my Bakhuis wouldnt eat for a week after I fed them bean beetles.

I ended up keeping the beetles around for a time just in case of fly culture crashes but I eventually did away with the bean beetles altogether. 
What I have had good luck with reliably over the years Ive been in the hobby, are flour beetles.
Some people say the frogs will only eat the larvae but most of my frogs will eat the larvae and adult beetles. Some of them even preferring the actual beetles over the larvae


Todd


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## Michael Shrom (May 20, 2004)

My terribilis eat them like crazy. Smaller frogs might not care for them. The are a lot less messy than sifting flour beetle larvae.


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## Mike1980 (Apr 10, 2013)

My frogs aren't crazy about them but they will pick off a couple of them and then let them be. They will grab one then spit the next out, grab, spit, etc.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

I've been into tincs since my beginning into the dart world. Currently, I have 9 morphs of tincs as well as leucs and terribilis and all of them love their beetles. I start froglets on them at about 4 months out of the water. It takes some time for them to get used to them...in the beginning they make a gagging reflex and some will even run for cover and head for the hills. But...they will get over it and will be scarfing them down within a matter of weeks.

If yours are simply spitting out the bigger ones...give them some time. Bean beetles are soooooo much easier than flies in my opinion. If you ever experience a crash...you will thank heaven for them!


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

WEndy: I was hoping for your input after seeing your posts. Good to hear. I have been through 2 blooms of bean beetles(this second time I have way more than I could ever use, I made up 4 cultures and they boomed immensely all at about the same time-trying to get the continuous thing going).

DFF: I'm surprised about the adult beetles. I did flour beetles for newts for a while...and as literature stated found that most did not like the adults. The quinones this family puts out are pretty potent so I'd be hesitant. Then again-their is a post on here of someone who's terribilis would scarf boxelder bugs and fireflies(their heads would light up!) with no issues.

If they aren't prone to eating them to oblivion this might actually be a good thing. It seems that darts will eat a FF no matter how stuffed they are-but they actually have to be hungry to eat a bean beetle.


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Glad to hear you're having success with them. It's always better to have too much food ready than too little when it comes to our frogs! 

Don't be fooled though...they'll stuff themselves on beetles once they get used to them too! Tincs are just little piglets in disguise!


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I recently started feeding these to my army of Tincs and they love them!

These, bar far, are now my favorite feeder! Simple and you get tons of beetles. They just seem to keep coming and coming...

A LOT less escapes than Hydei too, which is a waste of food. 

Oh, Bean beetle, where were you 4 years ago?!?


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## nate_88 (Dec 3, 2013)

I'm about to start feeding them to mine just waiting on my first culture I only use them for adults

King N8 88


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## ndame88 (Sep 24, 2010)

Ya, mixed results right now with them, larger tincs love them, leucs not so much, but as a back up, I am sure if they get hungry enough they will eat them.


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## Dragonfish (Mar 23, 2012)

Where does one get bean beetles? I'd love to try them!


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Dragonfish said:


> Where does one get bean beetles? I'd love to try them!



You can usually find them at local shows or meets,or you can post an ad in the wanted section.I'm sure there is someone local to you that could help you out.


All of my tincs and leucs,and larger frogs pound them like candy.I use them in rotation with ffs and other feeders.I don't feed them to my small frogs although I have noticed that if you keep them around for 3-4 booms (couple of months) the production goes way down,but they do runt like ffs.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Took my Leucs a while, but they love bean beetles now.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Yeah,that seems to be the norm.Most of my frogs would spit them out in the beginning,then once they realized that they are food it's all over.I think after eating soft bodied ffs,the hard bodied bbs are a bit of a shocker to the system,but when they decide they like it,it's chow time


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I still have an azureus or two that will eat several, and then regurgitate them in a squirming mass. They also tend to reject the larger ones. But some individuals are a lot less selective. It is also best to feed bean beetles before FF's otherwise they will tend to avoid the bean beetles.

I would argue that just because our frogs don't like something-doesn't me we should necessarily stop offering it if they are eating it.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm all for diversity.... But if they're getting regurgitated consistently I'd quit offering them and choose another alternate feeder. 

Wondering how well Pygmy chameleons and dwarf geckos like them


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

pygmies and day geckos love love love them.My smaller day geckos seem to prefer them over ffs.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Nice. I so hate crickets. Anything I can do to avoid them.... I do gladly


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

frogparty said:


> Nice. I so hate crickets. Anything I can do to avoid them.... I do gladly


Crickets and roaches, man.... I can't stand either of 'em.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

FroggyKnight said:


> Crickets and roaches, man.... I can't stand either of 'em.


Man I hear you on that,unfortunately I use both


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

Pet Paradise, which is local to me, carries bean beetles and flour beetles. I haven't had the chance yet to go out there to look at them but what do people think about one over the other and which is smaller?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Kudaria said:


> Pet Paradise, which is local to me, carries bean beetles and flour beetles. I haven't had the chance yet to go out there to look at them but what do people think about one over the other and which is smaller?


Rice flour beetles are more of a pain to culture and feed out of, and in my experience, darts are rarely as interested in them as they are in BB.


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## joshbaker14t (Jun 11, 2012)

Dane said:


> Rice flour beetles are more of a pain to culture and feed out of, and in my experience, darts are rarely as interested in them as they are in BB.


I concur. My galacts will spit the flour beetles out. They like the larvae. Imo, more of a pain than they are worth.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

Dane said:


> Rice flour beetles are more of a pain to culture and feed out of, and in my experience, darts are rarely as interested in them as they are in BB.


Ah darn I was looking for something to start young frogs on before their big enough for the bean beetle. Get them used to the idea that beetle like bugs are food.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

I wonder if there is a precedent for the bean beetles eating their way out of the frog's stomach. It doesn't seem like the frogs eat them intact. Mealworms have been known to cause serious damage to lizard stomach's.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

oldlady25715 said:


> I wonder if there is a precedent for the bean beetles eating their way out of the frog's stomach. It doesn't seem like the frogs eat them intact. Mealworms have been known to cause serious damage to lizard stomach's.


I HIGHLY doubt that there is any potential for that.


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## Enlightened Rogue (Mar 21, 2006)

Just get Terribilis.
My orange`s split a pizza with me last night.

John


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## InvertaHerp (Mar 4, 2013)

oddlot said:


> Man I hear you on that,unfortunately I use both


I love roaches. Healthy and adorable! My tarantulas gobble them, as do most herps. Never tried giving them to darts though.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

oldlady25715 said:


> I wonder if there is a precedent for the bean beetles eating their way out of the frog's stomach. It doesn't seem like the frogs eat them intact. Mealworms have been known to cause serious damage to lizard stomach's.


No it's impossible.They don't eat at all.I don't think they even have a mouth, they don't need one.


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## InvertaHerp (Mar 4, 2013)

oldlady25715 said:


> I wonder if there is a precedent for the bean beetles eating their way out of the frog's stomach. It doesn't seem like the frogs eat them intact. Mealworms have been known to cause serious damage to lizard stomach's.


That has never seemed very possible to me. How are they going to be alive when they've been chewed up and subjected to stomach acid?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

InvertaHerp said:


> That has never seemed very possible to me. How are they going to be alive when they've been chewed up and subjected to stomach acid?


I don't think they really get chewed up.They are hard bodied and frogs don't have teeth.They probably squish ffs because of how soft they are.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

They just drown in stomach acids-you can watch them kick around in the frogs belly for a while.

So your Rieppeleon take BBS?


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## radiata (Jul 24, 2010)

oldlady25715 said:


> I wonder if there is a precedent for the bean beetles eating their way out of the frog's stomach. It doesn't seem like the frogs eat them intact. Mealworms have been known to cause serious damage to lizard stomach's.


It can't happen - BBs don't have any mouth parts.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

As a "true bug" not a Coleoptera, they don't have the capacity to bite. No worries!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

It's not appropriate to call them beetles. 
We should be calling them bean weevils


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

My memory isn't what it was, didn't someone recently mention a small beetle that you could feed to juvenile frogs? Something to get them used to the idea that food is more than just springtails and fruit flies?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm not sure which you are referring to,but like ffs if you keep the cultures a bit longer than most(which I do),by the third and fourth hatch they are stunted too.Flour beetles are smaller,but most frogs don't like the beetles(they love the larvae) allthough I know a member that says his frogs eat them.


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

oddlot said:


> I'm not sure which you are referring to,but like ffs if you keep the cultures a bit longer than most(which I do),by the third and fourth hatch they are stunted too.Flour beetles are smaller,but most frogs don't like the beetles(they love the larvae) allthough I know a member that says his frogs eat them.


Makes sense...I guess my next question is how do you size your dart's food? I remember when I was originally looking at gecko's they talked about giving them feeders that were no longer than the gecko's head. How does that compare to how you choose what size feeder insects to give to your dart frogs?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

If I remember correctly,the rule of "thumb" is the distance between the eyes.


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

Simple to remember, always good to know how to judge when to move onto a larger feeder insect.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

oddlot said:


> If I remember correctly,the rule of "thumb" is the distance between the eyes.


aww, you beat me to it! That is the usual recommendation for most herps and it is a great rule to follow.

John


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

FroggyKnight said:


> aww, you beat me to it! That is the usual recommendation for most herps and it is a great rule to follow.
> 
> John



 Maybe next time John.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

frogparty said:


> As a "true bug" not a Coleoptera, they don't have the capacity to bite. No worries!


Are we talking of bean beetles here? They are weevils, but that is the largest group of beetles.

Someone could do some quick research to confirm but they have to have some sort of moutparts to cut their way out of beans.


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

Dendrobait said:


> Are we talking of bean beetles here? They are weevils, but that is the largest group of beetles.
> 
> Someone could do some quick research to confirm but they have to have some sort of moutparts to cut their way out of beans.


From beanbeetles.org - Pupation occurs inside the seed and an adult emerges by chewing and removing a circular piece of the seed coat to form a round exit hole.

So they do but I think that the tales of bugs chewing their way out is just an urban herpetologist myth. Everywhere I've read says that it simply isn't true, the stomach acids kill the bug before any such thing can happen.

I mean really think about it, frogs and reptiles and birds have all been eating bugs for millions of years. If the beetles regularly chewed their way out I think the only frogs, reptiles and birds to survive until now would be all eating something besides beetles and beetle larvae.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Dendrobait said:


> Are we talking of bean beetles here? They are weevils, but that is the largest group of beetles.
> 
> Someone could do some quick research to confirm but they have to have some sort of moutparts to cut their way out of beans.


It was already pointed out that they are weevils. I was thinking they were " true bugs" but they aren't.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Do the adults actually eat anything?


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

frogparty said:


> Do the adults actually eat anything?



No they don't.


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## abIngenui (Oct 14, 2015)

frogparty said:


> Do the adults actually eat anything?


They don't really eat anything, but apparently the females will drink sugar water and yeast mixture if given and will lay more eggs than if not given. Apparently, the male will also secrete a substance for the female as a "premating gift" that helps in egg production, so the female eats that too.

But really their mouthparts are not a big issue. When they chew out of the bean, the layer is not thick at all; the larva eats most of the hard tissue and just leaves the membrane. Frogs should be fine.


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## Mantella71 (Oct 7, 2013)

I feed my adult leucs and azureus drugstore beetles with no problems. Started multiple cultures from infested organic cereal. Only feed once a month or so.


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