# On not mentioning breeders names,...



## DendroTerra (Mar 28, 2010)

Hi, all. I'm Tobias. I recently am getting into frogs in a more hard core way, and am planning on starting a frog, plant, and koi business. Just wanted to introduce myself and say "hi!"

Anyways, I notice it's a no-no to mention breeders by name, and I sort of understand why, as most of us probably do. However, I'm wondering if there is a place people can talk openly about such things.

I really am curious, as I'm sure a number of people who haven't learned already are, to discover whose frogs are usually clean and who is, as they say, a 'dirty frogger.'

On most every forum people are hush-hush about it, and most of the well known frogger people about don't ever mention names, will dodge questions about it, and redirect others who begin to do so. All very understandable.

Although I would love to see a place where people can get the scoop and read reviews about different frog sellers. I think it would help a lot of people, guiding them on where to go to get a most likely clean frog, as well as take away some business from those who don't take very good care of our favorite hopping friends, which, in turn, might make them more circumspect in their frog keeping and give business to those who are really on the ball.

I understand the need to be discreet to some degree, and you don't want people losing out because a hard to please person is talking lots of unfounded s#*t, but having resources for people to make sure they are going to the best place to get their desired frog would be great. It would help the frogs out there stay healthy, and keep people working harder to have a clean business. We all know there's a number of people who don't regularly get their frogs fecals tested, if at all, but still breed & sell, so having them most likely to get a clean frog from the get go could make the hobby a lot healthier, cleaner, and safer.

Anyone know where to go for this kind of knowledge, or have an idea that would allow the positive, helpful information to get out, but keep the mindless trash-talking away?

I think this is important, and even though lots of information about frogging individuals can be learned discreetly by word of mouth, a lot of froggers are introverted, so that means not many mouths around to get words from. Also several people live somewhere where there are no froggers about, besides themselves, to share buying tales of woe or immeasurable joy with.

There's always the forums, but we all know sharing names in posts is a no-no, and we all kind of get it.

So what to do? Any suggestions?

I believe there's got to be something possible, as well as polite to do, that could be massively beneficial for us frog-loving individuals, and probably beneficial for the nice, little, innocent frogs themselves.

I would love to hear anyone & everyone's thoughts on this.

*And please don't mention names of froggers or leave reviews of businesses here, on this post!! It's a no-no on most every forum I know of, so let's keep it clean, share ideas on what can be done, or what's already out there providing this helpful information.*

Thanks in advance for your input, all!! I'm very keen to learn if there's something out there in this kind of vein and/or what ideas people have on the subject.

~Tobias


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I believe there's another dart frog forum (that I don't frequent nearly as often) that is a little looser on these rules.

Personally, I think if you want to find out about a vendor you need to use the PM system. In the Members Frogs and Vivariums section as well as sometimes the Construction section of this board many people post their vivariums, their frogs and where they got their frogs and all the parts to their vivariums. I know if I got any portion of my tank from someone and I post that tank here on this forum I make sure to mention where I got the pieces. No feedback, just "this is where I got this from, thanks." If someone is considering buying something from the same person, shoot the poster a PM and ask about the experience. It's taboo to post publically about a specific vendor, but it seems that when you get into a one-on-one you're welcome to say whatever you like.


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Actually, just to be clear, it's not wrong to mention specific breeders. You just have to be careful about posting feedback in the areas where the information could be construed as "Dendroboard Sponsored". In each posters profile there is a way to leave specific feedback.

Also, a really great site is Board of Inquiry® - FaunaClassifieds

More than once I have plugged a sellers name into the search engine on the BOI and been glad I did.


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## MeiKVR6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Boondoggle said:


> Also, a really great site is Board of Inquiry® - FaunaClassifieds
> 
> More than once I have plugged a sellers name into the search engine on the BOI and been glad I did.


^^^ That is an excellent resource! Typing in the names of the company/breeder on google and doing a search helps too.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Also, if there is a certain breeder you're interested in, there's nothing wrong with making a thread asking for people's experiences via PM.


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## DendroTerra (Mar 28, 2010)

Boondoggle said:


> ...Also, a really great site is Board of Inquiry® - FaunaClassifieds
> 
> More than once I have plugged a sellers name into the search engine on the BOI and been glad I did.


Thanks a million! What a great resource. I've just been looking over there and it's full of pretty intense tales of woe. I'm glad it's there to spare others the same trouble with the same people.

Thanks again.


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## dcameron (Jun 9, 2004)

There are also by far fewer bad apples in the dart frog hobby than other hobbies.


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## insularexotics (May 3, 2005)

Tobias,
My suggestion would be to ask a breeder you are considering for a list of references. Obviously, anyone can list a couple satisfied customers. But, to go to the trouble of asking customers if you can use them as a reference takes an extra step. And then you can get an honest opinion from the person in private. 

As others have mentioned, you can post here to ask about a specific vendor and ask for feedback via PM. My problem with that is that you will tend to get more negative responses since people tend to focus on the negative and not go to the trouble for positive feedback. 

So maybe a hybrid approach would be best?
Cheers!


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

You could also unplug yourself from the internet, arrange/attend a local frogger meeting, and say or ask whatever you want to in person. As it turns out, the people who post on these forums are real people who exist in real life and are not just robots (well, can't speak for everyone).


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## Marty71 (Nov 9, 2006)

Mike is smart. Local groups are a great resource. 

I'd also prepare a list of questions to ask any potential seller. If you don't ask the questions you really can't be upset about a poor outcome later on. If you find a seller has frogs you really want ask about the frogs history, age, whether they have run tests etc. This is probably a good start:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...oper-due-diligence-online-frog-purchases.html

I think you will come accross a great deal of debate around fecal testing and "clean frogs/dirty frogs". Some of the sponsors, hobbyists etc. don't test their frogs. Some of these people are good friends of mine and i would buy from them in a heartbeat. Have and will continue to. 

I'd also hesitate to label somebody a "dirty frogger', I've been around a few years and I have never once heard that term. 

Good luck.

M


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Corpus Callosum said:


> As it turns out, the people who post on these forums are real people who exist in real life and are not just robots (well, can't speak for everyone).


I,on the other hand, am a meat popsicle....


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## davecalk (Dec 17, 2008)

Marty71 said:


> Mike is smart. Local groups are a great resource.
> 
> I'd also prepare a list of questions to ask any potential seller. If you don't ask the questions you really can't be upset about a poor outcome later on. If you find a seller has frogs you really want ask about the frogs history, age, whether they have run tests etc. This is probably a good start:


Local groups are a great source for lots of reasons. You can get to know the breeders personally, talk with them, pick their brain as to what works for the frog you are purchasing, go and see their tanks and frog set ups, not pay shipping costs, not have stressed frogs from shipping, etc. etc.

Yup, sounds like the cats meow if you have local breeders.


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

Corpus Callosum said:


> As it turns out, the people who post on these forums are real people who exist in real life and are not just robots (well, can't speak for everyone).



Yeah i have to agree, I started to think Ed was a robot, or at least some computer program on infinite knowledge that dendroboard employed to help sift out some of the riff-raff but come to find out he is just a zookeeper who obviously likes to read 


(just plying with you Ed, much respect)


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Here's the "ED" 9000. 

Bonus points for recognizing an "older Sci-Fi movie....


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## Nicholas (Mar 16, 2010)

Phil i think you posted the wrong Make/Model 

Thats the HAL 9000

We were looking for the ED 9000

But dont worry i did a quick google search and found it!!!











P.S. For Bonus Points: Space Odyssey

HAL: I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do. 
HAL: It can only be attributable to human error. 
Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL?


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Tobias it is also a good idea to be in touch with other local froggers or even somewhat close to you. I noticed you are in Austin. 
Here is a great thread on Texas froggers http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/southwest/33467-anyone-texas-around.html

Visiting breeders facilities is always a great idea and I am sure they will be happy to give you references.

Hope this helps.

-Beth


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