# LARGE exoterra construction journal..Im a noob



## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Okay, you know when you are really hungry and you go to the fast food place and order about twice as much as you can end up eating? I am afraid that is what happened to me today.

I was at the pet store when I saw the giant 36x18x24 exoterra, and decided that my brand new tincs had to have it. About a week ago I finished my very first vert, a small 12X12 zoomed, and then I purchased some awesome cobalts from laylow I fell in love with some of the setups that he has. He has posted them on here. One in particular is where the cork bark wood served as a water feature. Here is the thread on it. I decided that I wanted to build something with close to the same theme. I have posted some pictures of my initial thoughts to see what you guys think. Being as new as I am, I know I should practice more on smaller ones, but I have researched a lot on here and I figure if I take it slow and come often for advice on here you guys can help me make it through. I assume this much space for just 2 frogs may be slight overkill, but I also have heard that some frogs do fine in groups, so maybe when I expand my collection I can get a group of some type that could be fine in this space... until then I will try and spoil my cobalts. So here are some pictures of what I am thinking.










I have the two pieces that look like the trunk in the corner and that way I can have an area back there to get to my pump/whatever else goes down there. the part between the two pieces I can put dirt so it looks like the same piece. The next piece over that looks like a branch of the tree I plan on making a hole in the middle top where water will go. Then it will flow down inside the branch, then I will make it look like it goes underground to come out on the next part of the branch where it will then flow into a pond in the corner. also, this curving of the branches will make a natural second floor or level over and on top of the wood, with a darker underpass beneath it.

I am also debating doing a foam/fake rock feature in the right corner that may be where the water falls off of to go into the wood, so it would overhang and drop perfectly into the wood.

I am planning on doing a eggcrate false bottom, and using GS where needed. I also plan on using a lot of the black silicone to cover all the walls but the front and then to have many areas of plants and also plenty of ground cover leaves. 

Here are some more pictures.



















Here is my first small viv










Okay. So now before I go crazy and do something wrong, please fill me up with all and any advice you can give me on what I am attempting. Also, I am considering putting a fogger in there so fog comes out of the log as well at times...pros/cons?

Oh and as a side note..... The cans and protein powder will not be part of the final product!!!!!!!!!

I am way way excited to get started on this, but I will wait to be guided by the older and wiser in the hobby!


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## blue02celi (Nov 12, 2010)

good luck! I'll be watching, we have a expo here tomorrow im hoping not to do the same... come back with a huge tank and tons of other supplies lol


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Oh wow, Denver is just 5 hours away... good thing I didnt know about it earlier or I would probably be there as well. There is one coming up in Vegas that I am pretty sure I will not be able to avoid.


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## tim13 (Feb 1, 2011)

goodluck with your build! take it slow and plan your attack. i wish the stores in my area sold terrariums that size... have you researched all the different background options? clay,gs/silicone,cork,styrofoam,quickcrete, etc. some neat things you can do.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Here is an update with some more pictures. I assembled the false bottom and got the pvc pipe in place to secure it. Also, I put down black silicone in all the places under the false bottom that I did not want to be visible and started siliconing the false bottom to the terrarium. Hopefully I will be able to seal it entirely so that nothing will get in there. In the back left behind where the trunk will be I have built an access tunnel to the false bottom for easy access to the pump and whatever else is down there. In the front left corner I plan on having a small pond will some small water plants. I will feel it up with rocks so that it will always be pretty shallow compared to the size of the frogs. I left that bottom corner free of silicone to make a pond viewing area from the outside. I will continue to show more pictures as we go along. please shout out anything you see that you think needs to be changed.


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## frog22 (Sep 8, 2010)

Looks good so far, Im sure your Tincs will love the space.


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## varanoid (Jan 21, 2011)

Good start. Good for you on the access tunnel. Water features are tough especially if accessability maintenance is is not taken into account. Keep us posted on how it progresses. Do your research but don't be afraid to ask away.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

So things are coming along.... I have been using the black greatstuff the last couple of days and I am starting to get things in place. I have the main tree trunk in the corner, and then the large branch coming off actually has a hose in it that runs to the access in the back corner.... I plan on attaching a fog machine to the hose, so fog will come out of the branch. The branch has a hole on the top of it. In the far right corner I am going to build a foam rock fountain that you pour the water into the branch, which will poor it into another branch that will pour it into the pond. SO the place where the rock pours into the branch is also where the fog will come out. I have run an access line over to the corner for the pump to pump water to.

Also, I attached a small little branch in the front. It has a nice little hole in it that I can plant some kind of plant in. Around that place will be the central land palce where I will have a lot of leaf litter and where I will feed the frogs.

Here are some updated photos.


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## Cam (Oct 27, 2010)

keep posting those pictures i am really enjoying your build


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

I have scratched the rock part all together... I decided cost wise, and time wiseit is going to be better to just create another level of dirt up there with greatstuff, and have it be a land waterfall instead of rock... this will make it a lot easier to make and I think it will still have the effect I want.


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## laylow (Apr 6, 2009)

Great start! My Clork tube viv was the first I had built. I'm glad you enjoyed it and that the frogs are doing well for you! I'll be sure to keep focused on this thread to see your updates!

Shaw


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Updated Pics!

I am getting close to the end of the initial gs layers. There are a few things I am waiting to come in the mail that I want to great stuff into the background but for the most part the initial look is complete.


Here is a picture of the back of the terrarium... I figured no need to cover it black since it is in the back right? I hope I dont regret this later.... I guess I can spray paint it black from the outside later if needs be.










Here I have the direction on the waterfall pretty much done. It will start in the top right corner, and go along the top ledge... then it will drop into the log and that will take it over to the front right bottom corner to the pond there. I have started cutting and molding the great stuff how I want it.




























I think the next thing I will work on is the water fall on the top level and getting that whole piece looking nice before I move on

(also in the log is hidden the pipe the fogger will pour out into!


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## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

I have a newb question.. my understanding of water features are slim to none.. Is the part you left free of eggcrate in bottom right.. is that going to be a pool section? Will the whole tank be full under the eggcrate to that water level and you plan to pump up through the log and make a waterfall? 
If so.. looks awesome.. I just always had questions if it was okay to have a depth of water underneath the false bottom.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Yes you are right! That is what I am doing. The entire tank will have water in it up to whatever level I want the "pool" to be The pool has weed blocker so only water can pass between the "pool" and the rest of the false bottom. Then the pump is in the far back left corner and it has to be completely under water, and then it pumps it back over to the right side at the top


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## deboardfam (Feb 7, 2011)

Awesome.. Looks great. Thanks for the info. This will greatly help me in my future builds. I am also a noob, looking at an exoterra. How do you keep the peet etc from falling into the pool?

What pump do you have/plan on using?


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

I got a rio 200, but it wasnt strong enough to pump up that high, so I took it back and got a rio 600. I plan on building up around the pond maybe with rocks and covereing things around there with moss, so ideally there wont be any soil in the area.... but when stuff does fall in I heard a turkey baster works well it getting it out.

I plan on having some small lilly pad type plants in the pool... the local aquarium shop sells tons of the stuff.


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## laylow (Apr 6, 2009)

Nice build. How is it coming along?!? And the cobalts? Still doing good I hope?
Shaw


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Quick Update!

I was going to call this an ugly phase of the building.... but then I realized pretty much the whole thing is ugly until the end right?

Any way I got banished from the Laundry room to the garage due to how messy I am building these. I put the black silicone all over and started covering it with filtered peat moss. I have just done one layer so there are still parts that will need more, and you can see that I am started with the different colored sand for the pool and waterfall areas.


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## DartAsylum (Feb 17, 2011)

looks great so far!


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

NEXT PHASE!!!!!

I got 4 lights that are 6500 spectrum compacts from home depot. Should this be enough? they are each 23W.

Also, I dont yet have any of the plants in obviously, and I will be working on that.

The dirt is the ABG or whatever form JOshs frogs... looks pretty sweet in there.

the main question I have is that I ordered springtails and it said to make a larger container for them.... is any charcoal at home depot fine to grow them in?


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## pet-teez (Oct 3, 2007)

I think you'll want the fish store type of charcoal, activated, I'm not sure HD sells that?

This is looking awesome! I LOVE the water drop into the cork and down to the pond, that's really pretty great. Adds something for sure.


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## Nightstalker (Mar 30, 2010)

I was wondering where you were going with this build, but it all came together very well. Nice. Looks good and it looks like the frogs will have a nice hideout inside the log.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Nightstalker said:


> I was wondering where you were going with this build, but it all came together very well. Nice. Looks good and it looks like the frogs will have a nice hideout inside the log.


You are not the only one that was wondering.... I was getting worried myself... I think it turned out close to what I wanted it to and hopefully when I get all the plants in it will improve it even more!


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

That turned out Very well.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Just a quick question as I am building this thread... is there a limit to how many microfauna you want to plant your tank with? I have the white springtails, but have seen people selling black, blue, and pink ones, as well as other types of microfauna..... my question is.... should I have all the different types thriving in my tank or does one type suffice?


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## Lunar Gecko (May 7, 2010)

I'm a noob when it comes to frogs but have tons of other type vivs. I'll try and answer your question. IMHO you'll be fine with just the tropical spring tails in that tank. I personally like to add isopods to my tanks as well, I need them more with geckos because of the much bigger poop.  

Very nice tank. I may steal that cork bark round idea for my next tank. I was worried about splash in the one I'm going to be working on. That will solve my problem nicely.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Turned out so nice!! Do you have your plants in yet so we can see pictures?


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

great work! nicely done


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

I have some plants in, but I have some broms coming next week that I wanted to get in before I show the next picture.... and then hopefully the plants will start growing and fill in the place


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

i just finished building a 36x18x16 tank and i should have gotten this one...24 inches tall rather than 16. you did a really good job with this.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

dfrmav said:


> i just finished building a 36x18x16 tank and i should have gotten this one...24 inches tall rather than 16. you did a really good job with this.


Yes I love the height, I was planning on the 18 inch as well but the store I went to only had 24 inch and I was too impatient to go somewhere else.....

Now I see those sweet 36" tall ones and I am sure that extra foot would be real nice.....


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Well it has been a little while since I have updated and I thought it would be better to post a video than a picture this time.... I am getting really close to being finished. Let me know what you guys think


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Looks good! My recommendations, since you want them:
-Get rid of that twisty vine... it looks too fake. Maybe replace it with some more realistic ones.
-Don't just get a ton of broms. Fill it up with other plants like aroids, ferns, etc. I feel like everyone does just broms and it's getting a little unoriginal now.
-Turn the flow up on your waterfall, if possible. It's barely noticeable you even have one in there now- basically defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
-Replace those big ugly stones in the pond area with a natural gravel or sand. Also get some aquatic plants for it.
-IMO I think blue lights make everything looks really ugly and unnatural in a viv. The frogs and plants don't care for it and neither do I. Replace it with more daylight lighting for the plants
-Get some moss- a waterfall isn't complete IMO without moss growth covering it

Hope this helps!


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Mitch said:


> Looks good! My recommendations, since you want them:
> -Get rid of that twisty vine... it looks too fake. Maybe replace it with some more realistic ones.
> -Don't just get a ton of broms. Fill it up with other plants like aroids, ferns, etc. I feel like everyone does just broms and it's getting a little unoriginal now.
> -Turn the flow up on your waterfall, if possible. It's barely noticeable you even have one in there now- basically defeats the purpose of the whole thing.
> ...


Thank you for getting back to me on it. I will take some of these recommendations and try to improve the tank.

I do have a question, I have no vines in there at all so I am unsure what vine you are talking about... I have one of those twisted pieces of wood, and as far as making it more natural I dont know how to make something more natural than real wood.... were you referring to my vine in the small tank?

The pond area is pretty small, and the only reason I had big rocks in it was to make it more shallow so that it wouldnt be as big of a danger to the frogs. I am not sure there is room for aquatic plants other than the little mini lillypad things I already have growing in there

I have java moss all over the place in there, it is small and still catching hold, but it is almost everywhere around the whole water feature.

I like the blue light, I think it resembles night time well and will probably keep it, I appreciate you giving meyour opinion on it, the only time it is on is going to be around when we are sleeping anyway.

I will take your advice on the not packing it too much with broms, and trying other things. I already have two patches of fern growing in there along with a bunch of other plants.

Also I will take your advice on trying to increase the waterflow


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

dartboard said:


> Thank you for getting back to me on it. I will take some of these recommendations and try to improve the tank.
> 
> I do have a question, I have no vines in there at all so I am unsure what vine you are talking about... I have one of those twisted pieces of wood, and as far as making it more natural I dont know how to make something more natural than real wood.... were you referring to my vine in the small tank?
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're on your way to making an awesome viv. Good luck! 

If I sounded abrasive I really don't mean to be.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Mitch said:


> Sounds like you're on your way to making an awesome viv. Good luck!
> 
> If I sounded abrasive I really don't mean to be.


Not at all on the abrasive side. I would rather you get to the point of what you like/dislike then just another looks good post. 

I will look into incorporating some of the things you mentioned.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

dartboard said:


> Not at all on the abrasive side. I would rather you get to the point of what you like/dislike then just another looks good post.
> 
> I will look into incorporating some of the things you mentioned.


Great. I'd love to see it when you're done. Also remember... the vivarium isn't done until you're 100% happy with what you did.


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## SwampFox (Mar 4, 2011)

I was thinking about doing a viv similar to this and was wondering if you'd PM the pricing as far as the equipment and extras in the tank thus far.

I'd appreciate it, it looks great btw!


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

SwampFox said:


> I was thinking about doing a viv similar to this and was wondering if you'd PM the pricing as far as the equipment and extras in the tank thus far.
> 
> I'd appreciate it, it looks great btw!


Wow... I have been doing my best to try and avoid thinking about how much every thing actually cost...... I will try to give a rough estimate..... if you promise that this never gets to my wife!


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Swamp. Minus the frogs and plants, a tank should never cost more then say 100 dollars. My 40 breeder has cost me 40 bucks in silicone and gs. Most of the other materials I had from my previous build. Wood will cost me roughly 40 bucks. So it rounds to 80 bucks plus tax.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

VenomR00 said:


> Swamp. Minus the frogs and plants, a tank should never cost more then say 100 dollars. My 40 breeder has cost me 40 bucks in silicone and gs. Most of the other materials I had from my previous build. Wood will cost me roughly 40 bucks. So it rounds to 80 bucks plus tax.


lol, you say it will never cost over 100$ yet you dont mention the price of the tank nor do you mention the initial price of all the "materials from previous builds". That probably cost you something at some time.... yes if I take the tank apart and only count the new costs not including all the previous materials I already had... it wont cost much

This build is my main display build, and all builds after this one will be more economical. But with $250 for the tank, $40 for the gs and silicone, another $200 for the soil and supplies, probably $40 for the fogger, another &30 for the wood, I would guess when it is all said and done I have spent over $600 on it.

Venom I challenge you to build such a large size tank with nothing to begin with for the $80 you are quoting.


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## fishr (Dec 20, 2010)

dartboard said:


> lol, you say it will never cost over 100$ yet you dont mention the price of the tank nor do you mention the initial price of all the "materials from previous builds". That probably cost you something at some time.... yes if I take the tank apart and only count the new costs not including all the previous materials I already had... it wont cost much
> 
> This build is my main display build, and all builds after this one will be more economical. But with $250 for the tank, $40 for the gs and silicone, another $200 for the soil and supplies, probably $40 for the fogger, another &30 for the wood, I would guess when it is all said and done I have spent over $600 on it.
> 
> Venom I challenge you to build such a large size tank with nothing to begin with for the $80 you are quoting.


I second the challenge.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Come look at my 65 gallon tank. 20 dollar for the tank on craigslist (Little dirty but water and a sponge cleaned it perfectly). $3 x 3 = 9 dollars for GS. $5 x 4 = 20 for silicone. Now add the cocohusk, dead moss, and orchid bark for the back ground cost a total of 20 dollars. That is a cost of 69 dollars. Now if we wish to get into the substrate that cost me around 35 dollars for it. 15 cents for pvc pieces and 1 piece of crate came to another 20 dollars that comes out to 124 dollars. That completes the entire build minus wood, frogs, plants and light.

But since you challenged me like this heck I will even bring the costs of everything else into it. I bought 10 Bromeliads and 5 tills from NEHerp cost me 35 dollars and the random other plants I obtained from a local plant nursery cost me 15 bucks for 2 coleus, african violet and a few more tills. The 4 pieces of wood cost me a total of 45 dollars. The light fixture I am using a 4' shop light from walmart that cost me a total of 15 dollars then home depot for the light bulbs themselves cost me 7 dollars for 2 (6500 kelvin light). And the 5 Azureus cost me 150 buck, which I won't add into the cost because I assume you are moving a frog in. So the total now is 117 + 124 = 241 dollars.

Sure the fogger looks nice but is not a necessity but even adding that would raise the price 20 dollars.

Because most people would rather not look around, and choose to buy new they raise the cost of there tank exponentially. If you spent over 200 on supplies and substrate then I would say you spent way to much unless you are including the plants. Which you most likely bought from home depot or Lowes rather then from the sponsors. Most if you buy X amount of stuff they will give free shipping.

I realize that it may harsh but I am someone who tries to conserve money to the point that people make fun of me. 

This is not counting time spent looking everywhere to find cheapest prices for supplies and completing orders that save the most amount of money and talking to sponsors for being poor

My tank is 48"x18"x18"


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

VenomR00 said:


> Come look at my 65 gallon tank. 20 dollar for the tank on craigslist (Little dirty but water and a sponge cleaned it perfectly). $3 x 3 = 9 dollars for GS. $5 x 4 = 20 for silicone. Now add the cocohusk, dead moss, and orchid bark for the back ground cost a total of 20 dollars. That is a cost of 69 dollars. Now if we wish to get into the substrate that cost me around 35 dollars for it. 15 cents for pvc pieces and 1 piece of crate came to another 20 dollars that comes out to 124 dollars. That completes the entire build minus wood, frogs, plants and light.
> 
> But since you challenged me like this heck I will even bring the costs of everything else into it. I bought 10 Bromeliads and 5 tills from NEHerp cost me 35 dollars and the random other plants I obtained from a local plant nursery cost me 15 bucks for 2 coleus, african violet and a few more tills. The 4 pieces of wood cost me a total of 45 dollars. The light fixture I am using a 4' shop light from walmart that cost me a total of 15 dollars then home depot for the light bulbs themselves cost me 7 dollars for 2 (6500 kelvin light). And the 5 Azureus cost me 150 buck, which I won't add into the cost because I assume you are moving a frog in. So the total now is 117 + 124 = 241 dollars.
> 
> ...


That is more like it!!! That is a great price for that large of a tank and all you were able to do with it. 

I did order almost all my supplies from the sponsors on here, and when I am talking supplies I was also thinking about the supplies for flies that I bought from joshs frogs as well as some springtails, also in supplies I am counting the calcium and vitamins.

I guess we arent too far off, when he asked the cost this is my first real build and so I was thinking about the costs of everything I needed to get into the frog keeping business other than the frogs themselves. I am sure in future builds I can save a ton of money not needing some of these supplies.

I think the main cost for me was the tank for 250$. If I could have gotten a deal like yours then I think I would have been a lot closer to the numbers you gave. I agree it is great to save money whenever possible, and the sponsors are a good way to go at it.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

hehe I guess we were on the same page =P.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I usually spend however much money it takes for me to feel happy about what I did. If you spent a bunch of money and don't like the results, then what's the point? I'm not saying either of you did that I'm just speaking in general.


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## yellow dart frog man (Mar 8, 2011)

Very nice vivarium. Looks great.


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## whatamithinking02 (Mar 14, 2011)

Wow that fog coming from the wood is cool!


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## whatamithinking02 (Mar 14, 2011)

How did you do that feature?


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

whatamithinking02 said:


> How did you do that feature?


the fog is pretty simple, I have the tube running down the back left corner than into the log where it ends before the hole the water fall drops into. I have a screen on it so that the frogs cant get up it. The pump is also in the bottom left corner and it runs along the bottom under the dirt and up the right corner where it starts.

If I did it again I would go with clay over greatstuff and silicone


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## R.variabilis (Sep 15, 2011)

Nice tank! The log feature is really nice. Thanks for sharing your build


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## Zoomie (Jul 3, 2011)

Love this build. Very creative. 

I do like Mitch's suggestion of swapping the branch/monkey ladder or whatever they are called, to vines. Also, some broad leaf plants will broaden eye appeal and give your future inhabitants hangout choices. You can do this without making the tank look like a grow out plant tank.

Not sure what to say about tanks should never cost more than 80.00. I am clearly doing something horribly wrong if this is the case.  The cheapest that I have ever seen this sized Exo for sale used was 200.00 and it required extensive work in order to rebuild/house new inhabitants.

I have got to get my hands on this or the Exo 36x18x36. Awesome build footprints.

Again, a great tank. Be sure to post up pics when the new tenants move in.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

Any updates on pictures? I am sure the frogs are in the tank by now? LETS SEE!!


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

Looks great Dartboard. It has an original design that is well thought out for the species you are keeping. If you post an updated picture I can try to give additional advice, but I think most of the important changes have already been pointed out. I would definitely replace those large stones with something with a smaller particle size. I like the look of the night lighting, but Im not sure if the frogs will like it. Perhaps put it on a timer to stay on for an hour, then turn off. I noticed my frogs seem to stay up way past their bedtime if I leave the nightlights on  

As far as costs go...Unless you are a freakin' wizard, your tank will typically look as good as the amount of money you put into it. You get what you pay for, and our hobby is no exeption. Heck, I spent $150 just on wood to get the look I wanted. A couple nice orchids/broms will typically run you over $100 also, so unless you love the look of pothos you gotta shell out some cash.


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey you guys, I hate to inform everyone, but there will not be any new photos of this tank. Right after I finished I went and purchased frogs from a local hole in the wall petstore, and they both came down with what I presumed was that fungus that is really bad, they both died quickly and I realized I had to tear down the entire tank.

I was very depressed about it so the new tank I did was not near as creative, but it has grown on me. I have a different thread for it, but here is a pic










It has 5 yellow terribilis. It has grown in a bit and I will post new pics soon.


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## Colleen53 (Jan 19, 2009)

What a bummer to hear. Sorry for your loss. Pet stores are notorious for problems your just wrote about. I, too bought from a some-what reputable reptile store and had the same experience. Needless to say, that store is no longer in business. I now buy from sponsors/dendroboard members.


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

Did your Cobalts come from Laylow (Shaw) or a pet store? The beginning of your thread says one thing and the end says another.. If they are from a shop you mind sharing what store so others have a heads up? What made you come to the conclusion it was a fungus? Are you referring to chytrid? 

Sorry to hear about your loss, not sure if we've met but if you'd like frogs in the future I'm in salt lake and regularly have froglets available.. 

Anyway, awesome build. I'm sorry you had to tear it down. 

Chris


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## dartboard (Jan 30, 2011)

Yes I was referring to chytrid. the symptoms seemed to be following like they would with that disease from what I have read on here.

what happened us I bought one from the petstore, and then 2 from laylow. I put then together but it seemed the one from ther pet store was getting sick right away. It died and about 2 weeks later the two from laylow died as well.

I live in vegas now, but the pet store was west of 215 in west valley..maybe around 3300 south. Can't remember exactly but over that way.


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