# Planning a vivarium under my live wall



## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Some of you might remember a project I did during the summer of last year. I made a live wall. You can see the build thread here.
Since I started this tank, it has seen two phases-
1. Where it was a planted tank.








2. Where it was (is) a Lake Tanganyika biotope-like for a batch of _Trematocara variabile_.








_Trematocara variabile_ in my tank-









There is very little or almost no documentation of captive breeding of this species. There are some hobbyists who have attained captive breeding of this species but with little documentation (or they don't want to let people know the secret?). This whole family _Trematocarini_ (consists of 8 described species) is so hard to collect and have in your tank that very few people get to try their hands on them. Anyway, I have tried a lot of the things with them and they haven't spawned yet.
My last resort is to move them to a smaller tank where they can quietly do their thing. But that means my main display will be empty.

I want to take this opportunity to make a vivarium in this tank.

I am familiar with the typical approach to build a vivarium but since it is such an expensive tank and will most probably get used for other things after its vivarium life, I *cannot* do the following things on it-

1. Drill holes
2. Use silicone or epoxy to stick other components (like a 3D background) to the glass
3. Modify it in anyway that would change its water retention capability and its cosmetic beauty.

So there goes the option to use Great Stuff to make the background with. But the good part is that I already have a lot of things that would be required to make a vivarium-

I already have-
1. Mistking misting system - Currently running 3 nozzles on my live wall.
2. Light Unit- My DIY LED Light Unit that I build for the planted tank will work great for this project. At 100% intensity, my PAR meter reads 470-480. at the bottom of my tank (filled with water). Without water, it would be higher. I won't need that much though.
3. A tank and stand - most important things to make the vivarium.
4. A humidifier

What I need to find out-

1. What are my options to make a viv without having to work with Great Stuff or silicone. I am leaning towards just a plain black background and a design that would not require me to have a background. The design should also allow me to hang orchids. Or maybe a 3D background would work? 

2. What are my options to seal this tank on the top? How can I make a lid?

3. How would I keep the air circulation, misting and humidifier going?

4. How would I make the false bottom? I need plants growing on the bottom too.

Any suggestions, comments, photos or links would be much appreciated. Thanks for reading 
-Sumer.


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## nyskiffie (Mar 6, 2016)

It's rimless so you always have the option of building a background outside the tank and putting it in there. If you build it to the right tolerances it should just slide right in. You could also then work in a drainage line so that you can remove water from below the false bottom without having a drilled drain.

I think you could also make a nice looking acrylic lid that slides down onto the tank to keep humidity up. 

You can build the false bottom out of light diffuser and zip tie it together then just drop it in. 

Could end up a really cool tank!


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## Eloquentidiot (Feb 28, 2013)

I was thinking along the same lines as nyskiffie: build a background and put it into the tank when finished. 
My initial thought would be to cut two pieces of light diffuser, foam, or stronger inert material as a frame for the back and one of the side walls. Secure them together to provide a frame which should not fall forward as a simple insert for the back face might and build off of them with great stuff etc. You could even measure for and put it directly on top of your false bottom or build the false bottom as a part of it. This way your tank is still unblemished if/when you decide to deconstruct it. 
The main difficulty I can foresee to this will be making it strong but also light enough to not risk damage during construction and installation.
Briefly looking through your "Making a live wall" thread I have a feeling that whatever you do with the tank will be well planned and significantly more advanced than anything I have attempted. That live wall is truly inspiring. Looking forward to watching the results so please post progress!
Any idea what kind of creatures you are ultimately planning on keeping in it when done?


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

I love this idea of a living wall above a tank and I really like how the living wall part has grown out. My one critique of the set up is that it is a bit disjointed. The living wall section and the tank just don't really connect. This is totally my opinion obviously but if it were me building this I would try to continue the living wall down into the tank. Maybe use what you used for your living wall for your background (it looks like it was spyra or hygrolon or something along those lines). Also it would be very interesting to play around with driftwood protruding out of the tank area up to the living wall portion. Maybe forget about sealing the tank and just have it open for viewing. Maybe make a paludarium in the tank section with a shallow water area. Then have some cool pieces of driftwood rise out of the tank covered in mosses broms and orchids. Just some ideas its totally up to you of course. There are endless possibilities with this.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

I have loved following your previous builds. I think that doing a drop in background that is made and then slid into position is the way to go. I would leave both side walls uncovered. I would made at least one and probably 2 extensions into the tank to keep it from ever tipping. I would make the background go from the bottom of the tank to the top and probably make the extensions go from the bottom to 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up. I would great stuff the entire background and finish it with attachment areas for epiphytes. then I would use open cell foam like poret to make a drainage layer or build a zip tie structure to ensure drainage. the foam would be easier. you might want to avoid soil up against the front glass to help avoid scratching of the glass. I have never seen a long term tank used for a viv that I would ever consider to be in good enough condition to use as a tank again. I also think that a lid could be placed over the tank but still be removable. I would want a vent strip in the front to help keep the glass from too much condensation. I would drill the lid to place my misters. hope this is useful info. will follow the build.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

nyskiffie said:


> It's rimless so you always have the option of building a background outside the tank and putting it in there. If you build it to the right tolerances it should just slide right in. You could also then work in a drainage line so that you can remove water from below the false bottom without having a drilled drain.
> 
> I think you could also make a nice looking acrylic lid that slides down onto the tank to keep humidity up.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions. I think making the BG outside and sliding it in would be the best solution. That way I can take it out later without damaging the tank. The question would be what material to use as the base for the Background! EPVC? Plywood? something else?

About the false bottom- I am not really sure if I want to go the egg crate route. There would be no way to make sure nothing goes under the egg crate. And since I cannot use silicone to affix the false bottom to the bottom glass, I think I would just use hydroton.

For the lid, I would use gl;ass since acrylic tends to warp in humidity. 



Eloquentidiot said:


> I was thinking along the same lines as nyskiffie: build a background and put it into the tank when finished.
> My initial thought would be to cut two pieces of light diffuser, foam, or stronger inert material as a frame for the back and one of the side walls. Secure them together to provide a frame which should not fall forward as a simple insert for the back face might and build off of them with great stuff etc. You could even measure for and put it directly on top of your false bottom or build the false bottom as a part of it. This way your tank is still unblemished if/when you decide to deconstruct it.
> The main difficulty I can foresee to this will be making it strong but also light enough to not risk damage during construction and installation.
> Briefly looking through your "Making a live wall" thread I have a feeling that whatever you do with the tank will be well planned and significantly more advanced than anything I have attempted. That live wall is truly inspiring. Looking forward to watching the results so please post progress!
> Any idea what kind of creatures you are ultimately planning on keeping in it when done?


Thanks a bunch for your comment.
I am leaning towards what both of you have suggested- building a BG outside and then just sliding it in the tank. 
As I mentioned in the earlier comment, I am leaning towards hydroton rather than egg crate false bottom. Weight is not a problem since the tank would not be moved. 
Can you think of any pros and cons between hydroton and false bottom?

I recently got to meet a local frogger who had some Phyllobates terribilis (mint). What a beautiful frog. They are so bold that you can put your hand inside the tank and they won't move. He has some tadpoles growing up right now. I think I would go with those.



jturner said:


> I love this idea of a living wall above a tank and I really like how the living wall part has grown out. My one critique of the set up is that it is a bit disjointed. The living wall section and the tank just don't really connect. This is totally my opinion obviously but if it were me building this I would try to continue the living wall down into the tank. Maybe use what you used for your living wall for your background (it looks like it was spyra or hygrolon or something along those lines). Also it would be very interesting to play around with driftwood protruding out of the tank area up to the living wall portion. Maybe forget about sealing the tank and just have it open for viewing. Maybe make a paludarium in the tank section with a shallow water area. Then have some cool pieces of driftwood rise out of the tank covered in mosses broms and orchids. Just some ideas it's totally up to you of course. There are endless possibilities with this.


Thanks for the compliments. I totally understand your view. My gf says the same. But the problem is dryness. In CO, with heater on inside the house, humidity dwells in 20s, 30s and 40s. It is very dry to have an open top vivarium with orchids and other sensitive plants. 
Rather than joining the wall to the tank, I am making the vines and other plants like vanilla orchid go on the light (above the wall). Hopefully, these plants will fill that.
There definitely are endless possibilities. It's just about finding the right scaping material and right scape idea 



skanderson said:


> I have loved following your previous builds. I think that doing a drop in background that is made and then slid into position is the way to go. I would leave both side walls uncovered. I would made at least one and probably 2 extensions into the tank to keep it from ever tipping. I would make the background go from the bottom of the tank to the top and probably make the extensions go from the bottom to 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up. I would great stuff the entire background and finish it with attachment areas for epiphytes. then I would use open cell foam like poret to make a drainage layer or build a zip tie structure to ensure drainage. the foam would be easier. you might want to avoid soil up against the front glass to help avoid scratching of the glass. I have never seen a long term tank used for a viv that I would ever consider to be in good enough condition to use as a tank again. I also think that a lid could be placed over the tank but still be removable. I would want a vent strip in the front to help keep the glass from too much condensation. I would drill the lid to place my misters. hope this is useful info. will follow the build.


Wow! You just laid out the whole plan of my build 
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain everything in such great detail.

As I said in the above comments, making the BG outside the tank would be the best way. The question I have is, what material to use as the base layer for the background. Do you have something specific in mind? EPVC? Plywood?

I saw you mentioned poret foam. What would be the difference between poret foam and hydroton? Any pros and cons of each over another?


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

At this planning stage, I always have more questions than answers. I would list the question. I'd really appreciate your comments or suggestions-

1. Based on everyone's suggestions I am planning to make the BG outside the tank and then slide it in. 
The question is- *What material to use as the base layer for this background- EPVC? Plywood? or is there any other lighter material that would hold the weight of foam, some wood and plants?*

2. What are your thoughts on *using hydroton as the drainage layer instead of going the egg crate route?*
IMO, while using egg crate, there would be a possibility of things going under it which would be impossible to remove (I don't have a drilled bottom).

3. *Poret foam vs Hydroton vs Matala? *Has anyone used poret foam? Would it be worth trying? Would matala not make a good drainage layer?

Thanks for reading


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

base layer of background I would use eggcrate. it is easy to build into 3d shapes. you can then foam it to a useful shape. poret foam is used as a filter material by a lot of pond and freshwater aquarium people including me. you can buy it from the swiss tropical website. Poret® Foam Shop - SWISSTROPICALS
I would use the 10 dpi size for larger pore spaces. it is pricer than using eggcrate or an aggregate for drainage but it is simple and light and wont scratch your glass. I suppose matala would have very similar capabilities. both are used for pond filtration often.


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

ok I need to correct myself. I would go with the 20 dpi foam because the 10 is only available in blue.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

skanderson said:


> base layer of background I would use eggcrate. it is easy to build into 3d shapes. you can then foam it to a useful shape. poret foam is used as a filter material by a lot of pond and freshwater aquarium people including me. you can buy it from the swiss tropical website. Poret® Foam Shop - SWISSTROPICALS
> I would use the 10 dpi size for larger pore spaces. it is pricer than using eggcrate or an aggregate for drainage but it is simple and light and wont scratch your glass. I suppose matala would have very similar capabilities. both are used for pond filtration often.





skanderson said:


> ok I need to correct myself. I would go with the 20 dpi foam because the 10 is only available in blue.


Great! I totally forgot that you could use egg crate as the base for the BG too. 

About Poret foam- I am good friends with Stephen (owner of Swiss Tropicals) since I write for Amazonas magazine and he's senior editor there. The thing I am concerned about is the poret foam choking. Is that something to be concerned of? Do you think it would?


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## Eloquentidiot (Feb 28, 2013)

sumer said:


> Can you think of any pros and cons between hydroton and false bottom?
> 
> I have used both individually and in my last build together (a true 'empty' false bottom under egg-crate which is now filled with water, a sheet of fiberglass screen, expanded clay pellets over this, then another layer of the fiberglass screen). Likely overkill but I needed to raise the false bottom higher than I had constructed it and I like the appearance of the hydroton at the bottom of the tank visually. I had left a space around the 'true' false bottom with the intention of filling it in with clay pellets from the beginning.
> I think the main pro for the hydroton is simplicity and water-wicking. Pour it in and you're done once you reach the height needed. Meanwhile the increased surface area helps increase evaporation and therefore humidity, I believe this is part of the reason it is often used hydroponically. Con for expanded clay would be the weight and possibly the cost.
> ...


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

Eloquentidiot said:


> Regardless of which you decide to go with definitely use some kind of screening above it. I use fiberglass screening which you can get any number of places (I purchase from Amazon)


Instead of using fiberglass screening, you could probably use just plain old week block. I get a 2 x 25 foot roll at Home Depot for $5, and it works pretty well for me. Just my 2 cents, hope that helps


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Action time!!

My tank is an empty canvas yet again! It'd be it's third project.



















I visited two frog rooms in the last weeks. Mark (Encyclia) and Chris (pdfCrazy) were kind enough to invite me to visit their frog rooms. They haev some great vivariums and frogs. I got to see many kinds of designs techniques etc.

1. I think for my background, I am going to go with tree fern panels. They would keep it minimalistic and natural.

2. FOr the bottom, I am going to go with a mixed approach that Devin (Hydrophyte) has used in the past. It includes a false bottom and a layer of inert material before you put the actual substrate.

3. Lid is the main piece that I am yet to figure more about.

4. Hardscape- Senske brothers from Aquarium Design Group were kind enough to help me with this. They are going to send me a nice wood + rock scape in a week or two. 

Time to get into serious action


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Can't wait to see how it comes out, Sumer! I know you will do a great job.

Mark


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Encyclia said:


> Can't wait to see how it comes out, Sumer! I know you will do a great job.
> 
> Mark


Thanks, Mike  Your vivariums were inspirational. And I have my breath stuck at those mints. I hope I can get this setup up and running soon so that I can get some of those mints from you.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

*How many misting nozzles would y'all suggest for this tank?*


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

sumer said:


> *How many misting nozzles would y'all suggest for this tank?*


^^ Any thoughts on the # of nozzles?


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## GandalfTheGrey (Nov 18, 2015)

I personally don't have much experience with mistking, but I think it'd be around 5 or so... I guess


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## nyskiffie (Mar 6, 2016)

No idea on the number of nozzles... I still haven't set up a real misting system.

But I will say that for the lid, I would get a glass sheet cut to the size of your tank, then build a little jig around the outside and do some small acrylic strips on the inside to keep it from sliding around. This can be reused later for fish tanks too if you choose.


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

This is a 3 foot tank right?. In that case 5 should be plenty. I have 6 on a 4 foot tank and that is enough.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

GandalfTheGrey said:


> I personally don't have much experience with mistking, but I think it'd be around 5 or so... I guess





jturner said:


> This is a 3 foot tank right?. In that case 5 should be plenty. I have 6 on a 4 foot tank and that is enough.


Awesome! I would plan on having 5 then.



nyskiffie said:


> No idea on the number of nozzles... I still haven't set up a real misting system.
> 
> But I will say that for the lid, I would get a glass sheet cut to the size of your tank, then build a little jig around the outside and do some small acrylic strips on the inside to keep it from sliding around. This can be reused later for fish tanks too if you choose.


Yup, that is the idea. I am planning on 6mm glass (1/4") to use as my top. I talked to the glass shop today and they said they would be able to drill all the holes for misting nozzles, make a rectangular hole for ventilation and make another hole to drop all the cables and pipe for the humidifier.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I played with Google SketchUp today. I was trying to make the vents for air circulation. This is what I came up with. 
Height is about 13". It would hold one 80mm which would be replaceable. I would have full access to the fan when needed.

I would have two of these in the tank.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Update time-

I finally got to work on this project 

I started from the false bottom-


















Covered it with #7 plastic mesh. I couldn't find bigger sheets of this so I had to tie multiple pieces together with zipties.


















Then I worked on creating the background using egg crate and the tree fern panels. I also made two ducts that will hold the fan for air circulation. More pics later.

I have received the substrate from Mike at www.glassboxtropicals.com
I am waiting on the background to cure and my manzanita wood to arrive. This coming weekend I should be free on Sunday to work on it some more.

In the evening I tested my lights and measure some PAR values.

At the bottom of the tank I am getting a PAR reading of 410. 









3/4th way down where most of the leaves would be, I have a reading of 570









Close to the top it's 800+.









I am yet to decide what a lighting day is going to look like. These values would stand there only for a few minutes as "noon". Before and after, it'd be less than this.

More later,
Sumer.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

I'd have laughed if someone would have told me that making the lid for your aquarium would be this complicated. But now, after making these drawings and paying whatever I paid for it, I better not laugh-










5/8" holes are for the mistking nozzles.
2" holes are for ventilation
1 1/2" hole is for the mistking bulkhead which I will use to push fog into the tank 










All three 2" holes here are for ventilation.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Looking good, Sumer! I am glad things are progressing. I think it will look great when you are done.

Mark


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## cam1941 (Jan 16, 2014)

Probably one of the more expensive pieces of the puzzle... I ended up making my own because they wanted more for the top then a custom glass viv costs lol


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Encyclia said:


> Looking good, Sumer! I am glad things are progressing. I think it will look great when you are done.
> 
> Mark


Thanks very much, Mark. It was the visit to your place that answered most of my questions about this build.



cam1941 said:


> Probably one of the more expensive pieces of the puzzle... I ended up making my own because they wanted more for the top then a custom glass viv costs lol


I wish I could make all those holes with confidence. I am pretty sure the glass shop will have a heck of a time building that piece.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Someone asked me to upload bigger res photos of the glass pieces. Here they are-


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Update time!

*Background*
As you all suggested, I used egg crate as the base layer. I went with tree fern panels to make the BG. Mike (glassboxtropicals.com) sent me some premium quality tree fern panels. I had 1 piece of 12”x24” and 2 pieces of 12”x12” panels. It’s very easy to cut these with a hacksaw. 
I used silicone to attach these to the egg crate. It’s not an overnight project I tell you. If there is one thing that have learned to its greatest extent, it’d be patience. Being busy at work helps too because then you anyway don’t have more than 30 minutes to work on this project. LOL. 

*Fan ducts*
I did a lot of research on this and asked a lot of people who have made ducts in their setups. What I found was interesting- In the vertical tanks, it makes a lot of sense to have Sherman vents or euro vents along with some vent holes on the (or near the) top of the vivarium. Plants, substrate and other living things in the vivarium warms up the humid air and makes it light. When this happens, stack effect comes into play. The lighter, warm and humid air goes out of the vivarium through top vents and new, heavy drier air comes in the vivarium through Euro or Sherman vent. It also explains why the condensation from the glass disappears when you have vents in the vivarium. The new air brings in more capacity to hold humidity and more CO2 for the plants.
But my vivarium is different. I do not have a vertical tank where I can make Euro vent or Sherman vent. The only openings I have in my tank is at the top lid. This design would stop the stack effect from happening. The warm air would like to out through top vents but of course since it cannot create vacuum in the tank, it would stay there. Another thing that would happen is it would create a gradient inside the tank. Layers would form. Warm and humid air would stay at the top and cold drier air would sit near the substrate. 
In this case, there are two main tasks- 
1. to not let the layers form
2. have decent air exchange (from outside) so that the air inside the vivarium doesn’t get saturated with humidity (at 100% humidity, air cannot take more humidity. That means the water sitting on the leaves would not evaporate and dry).

First task which is to not let the air make layers can be easily corrected by using fans. In my opinion, it wouldn’t matter which way you are moving the air (top to bottom or bottom to top). Ultimately the humid air and dry air layers would mix together and there would be one consistency. This is when the fans are always running. If you run your fans at intervals, it might make more sense to blow lighter, more humid air (which is at the top level) to the bottom (fan blowing air downwards in a duct).
The second task might sound scary but it actually is not. I have multiple 2” diameter holes on the lid and there would always be air exchange. Since my misting nozzles are not going to spray water at every cubic centimeter of air I have in the vivarium, there would be humidity gradient inside the vivarium (even when I have fans running) for very short amounts of time. When that extra humidity (water molecules) would come in the tank through nozzles, it would push out the equal number of Oxygen or Nitrogen (or any other gas) molecules out of the vivarium through vents [Avogadro’s law]. Vice versa, when the humidity level would go down (water would condense because of the temperature or plants/ spyra/ tree fern panels would use the humidity) oxygen or nitrogen molecules (basically more air) would come in from the vents on the lid.
Some people argue that air exchange/ ventilation is a bad thing. I consider that wrong. You constantly need new air to maintain proper levels of CO2, O2 etc. (remember plants use both!) In my humble opinion, both are much needed- Air movement and Air exchange. 
I made two ducts using foam board. I painted them black with acrylic paint. I later covered them with tree fern using silicone. 100% silicone worked a lot better than mixing it with Xylene. It was of perfect consistency and held tree fern better.
This is how they look-









*Glass Lid*
My glass lid came in. They did a great job at drilling the holes. The technician working there said they broke two pieces before the third one came out the way I wanted it. I think they knew it and hence charged me accordingly to start with.








I used 2” rubber grommets to cover the ventilation holes. I then hot glued some plastic mesh to the grommets (from inside). I plan to change it with SS mesh in near future. Since there are no inhabitants in it and I don’t have to worry about FF escaping, I am not worried about it too much. I can change it at any time.








I used 3/16” black aquarium hinge to connect the two pieces together. It was a pain to push ¼” glass in a 3/16” hinge.









*Wood*
As I earlier said, Aquarium Design Group made a custom layout for me and sent me the wood and stones. It is just manzanita wood collected by Tom Barr in CA. 
Here are the pieces-
















Attaching the background
I simply silicone some Neodymium magnets in the egg crate. When I put the background in the tank, I put the other magnets outside the glass. It works very well and the background is held securely. I did take all the extra plants, water weight etc. into consideration while doing it.
Back panel is secured with 8 pairs of magnet and the side panel is secured with only two

















*Current view-*

































*Next step-*
1.	Put in the substrate
2.	Put the misting nozzles at place on the lid and connect them to the pump.
3.	Make the hardscape
4.	Apply moss mix
5.	Get some microfauna in the tank
6.	Wait for the plants to show up 
The plants are supposed to arrive next week. I am excited to get this thing planted.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

sumer said:


> As I earlier said, Aquarium Design Group made a custom layout for me and sent me the wood and stones. It is just manzanita wood collected by Tom Barr in CA.


Be sure to do weekly water changes! ;-)

sumer, this is coming together beautifully. You have done a great job with the research and getting the individual components together. I think that the overall statement of the living wall and vivarium will be much more cohesive now than before. I can't wait to see this completed. I am especially interested in seeing how the custom layout from an aquarium company fares in a terrestrial environment. Should be very interesting.

Well-played thus far.

Mark


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Encyclia said:


> Be sure to do weekly water changes! ;-)
> 
> sumer, this is coming together beautifully. You have done a great job with the research and getting the individual components together. I think that the overall statement of the living wall and vivarium will be much more cohesive now than before. I can't wait to see this completed. I am especially interested in seeing how the custom layout from an aquarium company fares in a terrestrial environment. Should be very interesting.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Mark.
The photos I received of the scape definitely gave it an aquarium feel. Since I'd be wanting to put some orchids and other things on the wood, I would like it to be little more than just an aquarium scape. I might have to chime in to add a little more to the custom scape that they have designed. 
I am not very bad at creating scapes either


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Update!

I put the substrate in yesterday.
I worked on recreating some scapes that were suggested by ADG. There are some stones that would go with these but I haven't done that yet!
Here they are-

Pros-
This long hand-like wood wood look great once covered in moss.
This moss covered green arm would look great against brown tree fern pane BG.

Cons-
If my collectoritis takes over, the contrast wouldn't be there because the back tree fern panel would be covered in plants itself 









Pros- 
All the small branches would look great with some moss on them. 

Cons-
I would have to fill the bottom back area (where the branches are emerging from) with longplants that would hide the base of the wood.
It might not look like a tropical vivarium (*???*)









Some of the plants that are going to go in the tank-

Homalomena sp.aff.insignis sarawak-









Bucephalandra sp. Narrow


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Any thoughts on the scape?


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## jturner (Nov 26, 2014)

Out of those two I like the first one better. I think it's really cool how the branch is elevated most of the way across the tank and it gives a nice focal point for the viewer. This thing is going to look awesome either way though.


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## jakemestre (Nov 3, 2009)

Looks fantastic! I second the first hardscape. It will give you a lot of places to plant things in the foreground so there's a lot of depth to the tank. Just my 2c.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)




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## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

Wow great job! That looks really nice!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sdroadie (May 24, 2016)

Amazing work!


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Update-

I think orchids are liking it in my vivarium. Two orchids decided to bloom at the same time.

I will post another one tomorrow.

Here is the first one- Stelis argentata


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## dentex (Apr 22, 2016)

I would love to see a FTS?


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

dentex said:


> I would love to see a FTS?


The one few posts above is pretty recent. I will make sure to get one more though


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Masdevallia erinaceae


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## ChrisAZ (Sep 6, 2012)

sumer said:


> Masdevallia erinaceae




Can I ask where you got this one? I'm looking for one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

ChrisAZ said:


> Can I ask where you got this one? I'm looking for one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


www.glassboxtropicals.com
Mike Rizzo is the guy.


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## flyfshrmn98 (Mar 23, 2012)

Are these the same lights controlled by the bluefish you had on plantedtank?


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

flyfshrmn98 said:


> Are these the same lights controlled by the bluefish you had on plantedtank?


Absolutely! They are definitely doing wonders


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## flyfshrmn98 (Mar 23, 2012)

sumer said:


> Absolutely! They are definitely doing wonders


Awesome, I will be breaking down my 75 gallon planted tank and doing the same. Just need to get my bluefish wired up


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## Rgelling (Aug 26, 2014)

Love this background method. I have been looking for different background methods that minimize spay foam but allow for planting sand good moss growth. Do people think tree fern attached this way will be stable and grow both plants and moss?. 
I want to try in my 60 gal I am just starting to design.


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## Rgelling (Aug 26, 2014)

Love the tree fern mount. Did you end up useing hidden fans as planed as the finished planted tank looks like it has a hanging fan?. Is the background wet and planted staying put?.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Rgelling said:


> Love this background method. I have been looking for different background methods that minimize spay foam but allow for planting sand good moss growth. Do people think tree fern attached this way will be stable and grow both plants and moss?.
> I want to try in my 60 gal I am just starting to design.


Yup! Most of the medium sized orchids, all the mosses, Begonia, Macragavia etc. etc. have already been attached to the tree fern panels. 
So, in my experience, this thing works wonders.



Rgelling said:


> Love the tree fern mount. Did you end up useing hidden fans as planed as the finished planted tank looks like it has a hanging fan?. Is the background wet and planted staying put?.


Yes, I am using both the hidden fans + 2 more fans. Since some of my plants require more than usual misting, I mist every 2.5 hours. That's why fans are of great importance to me. 
Yup! Everything is staying moist but not wet.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Another orchid bloom 

Restrepia brachypus




























A quick photography side note- I stack multiple photos to make one of the above posted photos. Sometimes 50 photos and sometimes 80 photos are stacked together to make one photo.
I used to use Adobe Photoshop to do it. A lot of the times it would not work as I would expect it to and then I had to manually edit the photo to make it presentable. I recently found a new software called Helicon Soft. It works a million times better than Photoshop. Just to give you an example, here's the photo that Photoshop came up with. The above posted photo (#1) is the exact photo that Helicon Soft made.


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## sumer (Dec 14, 2012)

Hello everyone,

It has been a long time i posted any updates about this vivarium.

The vivarium is doing great. The plants have started filling in and now it is looking great.

Here's a short video of the viv and some hardware.





Some photos of Masdevallia erinacea in bloom-





































Thanks for looking


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## LobCityLA (Nov 5, 2014)

Nice job on the viv! Beautiful orchids you got there too, I have a bulbophyllum curtisii that's sprouted 2 buds and hopefully ready to bloom in about a month. I'm pretty anxious to get some colorful flowers to make a statement in a green and brown dominant viv lol


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## Lokirathehunter (Oct 16, 2015)

I saw your viv on YouTube last night  gorgeous


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