# R. sirensis Peruvian biotope



## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

This will be in one of the 18x21x25 Zilla bow fronts that I just picked up, and I’m leaning toward _Ranitomeya sirensis _‘Panguana Green Legged’ (good in 2.2 groups, relatively bold/visible, egg feeders - if other thumbs meet all those criteria, please do make suggestions). I’ve been mulling over a tank idea for a while: moody lighting, sparsely planted, with lots of wood and vines and mostly dark foliage, ideally featuring the _Columnea purpureovittata_ prop that I’ve been babying for the past few months…

I’m envisioning a sort of eroded hillside, with roots poking out from between cork bark mosaic, lots of draped vines, and a fallen tree trunk leaning in the center. Critiques are welcome! Will the frogs be able to use the manzanita “roots”? Should I add a larger leaved vine, maybe a Philo, for them to climb up the back more easily?









This is gonna be a slow process, over the next year at least, so bear with me and I’ll update progress here…


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I like it. 

My sirensis (Rio Pachitea yellow) are completely nimble. They climb up the stalks of plants. And will use and available climbing space. They don't need it to be large leafed . 

Moody lighting, lots of wood and vines will be a great setup. 

They particularly like shaded areas under cork ledges and leaves, etc.


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## Shazace (Jul 19, 2020)

Your post made me smile. I did a Peruvian Biotope-ish viv for ranitomeya and also included solanum uleanum and marcgravia sp peru lol. I didn't have much luck with finding Peruvian bromeliads (link should open to gbif database for all broms in Peru) that I liked and was available in the hobby. There's an instagrammer that lives in Peru that shares photos of where sirensis are found that's great for inspiration.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Shazace said:


> Your post made me smile. I did a Peruvian Biotope-ish viv for ranitomeya and also included solanum uleanum and marcgravia sp peru lol. I didn't have much luck with finding Peruvian bromeliads (link should open to gbif database for all broms in Peru) that I liked and was available in the hobby. There's an instagrammer that lives in Peru that shares photos of where sirensis are found that's great for inspiration.


Could you share that Instagram account with me via PM? Not sure if posting it would count as advertising, and the only in situ pics of sirensis I’ve been able to find so far have been at the edge of a man-made clearing, on fallen bromeliads, which doesn’t seem like it would be representative of their usual habitat…

Digging through old posts I’ve found two Peruvian bromeliad options so far, _Neoregelia mooreana_ (which wouldn’t have the purple look I’m going for but is really neat and spiky) and an unidentified, possibly Aechmea species with purple undersides that @JWerner has provided other members in past, hoping he or someone on here still grows it…


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Moody lighting, lots of wood and vines will be a great setup.
> 
> They particularly like shaded areas under cork ledges and leaves, etc.


Good to know! I’m hoping to have a bright light up top that is almost completely shaded out by the overhanging bromeliads, but I’ll need a dimmable fixture to dial that in (and probably change over time as plants grow in).


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Might incorporate a cork shelf up high with a creeping orchid on top, _Cattleya luteola_ has been on my wish list for a long time…

I think one of the biggest challenges will be to secure the horizontal elements, protruding roots, etc. to the sides so they are stable. I’m thinking I might need GS and silicone for that?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Harpspiel said:


> I’m thinking I might need GS and silicone for that


I just use silicone for that and haven't had any issues.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Maybe a silly question but this just occurred to me: I have purchased plants in past that likely came out of frog tanks, and I haven’t always bleach treated. How long can chytrid live on soil/plant material without a frog host? Should I be testing my whole plant collection for chytrid, and is that even possible?

I can bleach or bake everything that will go into the frog tank, but will the spores carry through the air, or water only? If they need water to transfer, I can use a separate spray bottle, tools etc. between tanks and grow areas, which I already partially do anyway (I have quarantine and non-quarantine tanks) and is a good habit.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Harpspiel said:


> Maybe a silly question but this just occurred to me: I have purchased plants in past that likely came out of frog tanks, and I haven’t always bleach treated. How long can chytrid live on soil/plant material without a frog host? Should I be testing my whole plant collection for chytrid, and is that even possible?
> 
> I can bleach or bake everything that will go into the frog tank, but will the spores carry through the air, or water only? If they need water to transfer, I can use a separate spray bottle, tools etc. between tanks and grow areas, which I already partially do anyway (I have quarantine and non-quarantine tanks) and is a good habit.


I think chytrid has been observed to exist up to 7 weeks without a host in water, and 3-4 weeks in water in lab conditions.

Get your plants from a good source, and then you won't have to worry about it.

I like your imagined setup above! I think most of the bromeliads that might work with the biotope theme will likely be too large in the long run, so you may want to go without them.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Chris S said:


> I think chytrid has been observed to exist up to 7 weeks without a host in water, and 3-4 weeks in water in lab conditions.
> 
> Get your plants from a good source, and then you won't have to worry about it.
> 
> I like your imagined setup above! I think most of the bromeliads that might work with the biotope theme will likely be too large in the long run, so you may want to go without them.


I have about 300 different plant species in my collection at the moment (including most of the ones I have proposed using), so my plant source for tanks will mostly be me…


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## fredk (Oct 25, 2021)

Harpspiel said:


> Might incorporate a cork shelf up high with a creeping orchid on top, _*Cattleya luteola*_ has been on my wish list for a long time…
> 
> I think one of the biggest challenges will be to secure the horizontal elements, protruding roots, etc. to the sides so they are stable. I’m thinking I might need GS and silicone for that?


I'm generally not a fan of Cattleyas, but that is a very nice orchid. I see it had psudobulbs. That suggests that it goes through dry periods, so maybe not a typical cloud forest orchid?


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Harpspiel said:


> I have about 300 different plant species in my collection at the moment (including most of the ones I have proposed using), so my plant source for tanks will mostly be me…


I wouldn't worry about it then!


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

fredk said:


> I'm generally not a fan of Cattleyas, but that is a very nice orchid. I see it had psudobulbs. That suggests that it goes through dry periods, so maybe not a typical cloud forest orchid?


Hm, a bit of a complicated question. Most orchids with pseudobulbs like to dry a little between waterings, but that doesn’t mean they don’t grow in cloud forests, it may just mean they tend to exist high up in the canopy where they get more light and dry off faster…and some orchids with pseudobulbs, like most Bulbophyllums and _Dendrobium cuthbertsonii_, don’t want to dry off at all. Looking at the structure, you would think that a plant that can store more water would need to be watered less often, but it doesn’t necessarily correspond.

In the case of _Cattleya luteola_, some sources say it needs a distinct dry winter, but a reliable source I found says it just needs to dry out thoroughly between waterings year round and will grow happily that way. If I get it, I would put it in a mister shadow and water deeply by hand about once a week.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Chris S said:


> I think chytrid has been observed to exist up to 7 weeks without a host in water, and 3-4 weeks in water in lab conditions.


If I’m reading this right, it means that the chytrid that affects amphibians cannot live indefinitely on soil or plants without a host? So for instance, my tropical mosses and liverworts which have been growing for a year or more with no amphibians in the house, would be chytrid-free (I know that doesn’t mean free of everything potentially harmful, but one less thing to worry about)?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Harpspiel said:


> In the case of _Cattleya luteola_, some sources say it needs a distinct dry winter, but a reliable source I found says it just needs to dry out thoroughly between waterings year round and will grow happily that way. If I get it, I would put it in a mister shadow and water deeply by hand about once a week.


I keep this species in my tinc viv, in the back corner right under the screen (viv is 50% screen, along the back) mounted on bare cork. The MK doesn't really hit it, so I hand mist every second or third day, and give it some CalMag fert every few weeks. It is chugging along, but no flowering after a couple years. 

I got a potted one (misshipped to me) about the same time, and it declined on my light table pretty quickly given standard minicatt care. I'm assuming a better grower would've done fine with it, but mounted in a viv seems closer to foolproof.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I keep this species in my tinc viv, in the back corner right under the screen (viv is 50% screen, along the back) mounted on bare cork. The MK doesn't really hit it, so I hand mist every second or third day, and give it some CalMag fert every few weeks. It is chugging along, but no flowering after a couple years.
> 
> I got a potted one (misshipped to me) about the same time, and it declined on my light table pretty quickly given standard minicatt care. I'm assuming a better grower would've done fine with it, but mounted in a viv seems closer to foolproof.


Traditional orchid wisdom would suggest that if an orchid is growing well but isn’t blooming, it needs either more fertilizer or more light. However what I’m reading about luteola says that, unlike most Catts, it grows on shady tree trunks in dense forest so light shouldn’t be an issue. Could it just be young? I have a Restrepia that didn’t bloom for me for two years, and now it’s putting out single flowers frequently (what a great feeling, blooming a genus for the first time that I’ve never managed to bloom before), so I’m assuming it was just “near blooming size” when I got it.

I think the bromeliad I’ll go with is _Neoregelia tarapotoensis_, which is a Peruvian mini with purple spots and cute spiky leaf edges. I read on here somewhere that Ranitomeya actually use spiky broms, for safety, but let me know if that will be potentially harmful for them. Now to try and find it…


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## jibby (Dec 17, 2020)

I love the idea of a R. sirensis biotope! Maybe one day I'll redo my sirensis vivarium as a biotope as well. I have read that sirensis have been observed using the axils of Xanthosoma plants in addition to bromeliads. A Xanthosoma sp. could be a unique addition to your terrarium, and even cooler if your frogs used its axils to rear tads. Here's a photo I found of Xanthosoma pubescens growing in situ on a rocky cliff side in Manu National Park, Peru. I know these plants get huge so you may have to continue to trim it. I've seen Xanthosoma pubescens available from a well known plant nursery in Ecuador. Feel free to PM me if you don't know who I'm referring to. 









Photo: Patrick Blanc - https://www.verticalgardenpatrickblanc.com/inspiration/aquatics-and-rheophytes?page=6

I'm a big fan of your plant selection. Gesneriaceae (Columnea, Drymonia, Episcia, Nautilocalyx, etc.) is such a wonderful and diverse family. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding gesneriads in the hobby, but finding locality specific species may prove challenging. I have found that cyclanths are far less common. I have one Dicranopygium sp. from the same nursery mentioned above, but I have not been able to source many more. Piperaceae would also be a fun family to research for your project. I'd argue a biotope packed full of plants from the gesneriad, cyclanth, and piper families (with some selaginella, marcgravia, a few orchids, and a climbing philodendron or two) would be hard to beat. I look forward to following your build!


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## fredk (Oct 25, 2021)

Harpspiel said:


> ...
> 
> In the case of _Cattleya luteola_, some sources say it needs a distinct dry winter, but a reliable source I found says it just needs to dry out thoroughly between waterings year round and will grow happily that way. If I get it, I would put it in a mister shadow and water deeply by hand about once a week.


Interesting. So, maybe a plant that originally evolved in a climate with a dry season that has further evolved to grow higher up in the canopy of cloud forests. Life (and evolution) is seldom a straight line.


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## fredk (Oct 25, 2021)

Harpspiel said:


> Traditional orchid wisdom would suggest that if an orchid is growing well but isn’t blooming, it needs either more fertilizer or more light.…


Or cooler temperatures at night, or cooler temperatures overall if it is a cooler growing orchid, or ... It really depends on the species.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Harpspiel said:


> If I’m reading this right, it means that the chytrid that affects amphibians cannot live indefinitely on soil or plants without a host? So for instance, my tropical mosses and liverworts which have been growing for a year or more with no amphibians in the house, would be chytrid-free (I know that doesn’t mean free of everything potentially harmful, but one less thing to worry about)?


From what I have read, this is the case, yes.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

jibby said:


> A Xanthosoma sp. could be a unique addition to your terrarium, and even cooler if your frogs used its axils to rear tads. Here's a photo I found of Xanthosoma pubescens growing in situ on a rocky cliff side in Manu National Park, Peru. I know these plants get huge so you may have to continue to trim it. I've seen Xanthosoma pubescens available from a well known plant nursery in Ecuador. Feel free to PM me if you don't know who I'm referring to.
> 
> View attachment 304884
> 
> ...


It definitely won't be packed full of plants - I'm going for a sparsely planted look, ideally allowing the frogs and some stunning plant specimens to shine. I may sneak in a few extra species and some orchids way up at the top, where I'm intending to have bright light that is shaded out by bromeliads and thicker plant growth. Xanthosoma is a neat idea, but I'm not finding one that would be remotely compact enough to use, and all of those related genuses (Xanthosoma, Colocasia, Alocasia) seem to be fast and vigorous growers, not something I'll want to deal with. I may not be able to find a Peruvian Dicranopygium, although they seem very common based on in situ pics - other centerpiece plant ideas are _Geogenanthus poeppigii_, _Elaphoglossum metallicum_, or _Peperomia rugosa_.

Most of the plants I listed are ones I already grow. I'll need to source another _Begonia tropaeolifolia_, I killed my last one. If all else fails, I can sub in another Gobenia section species, they are mostly documented in Colombia and Ecuador but I have found a few references to Gobenia section in Peru and I think they are pretty common, just not as documented.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

So I had never played with GBIF before, this is really fun. Here's a whole bunch of plants that I have or can get, from right around the Panguana sirensis locale!


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Paying it forward, for anyone stumbling across this thread via search terms like Ranitomeya sirensis, Panguana, biotope, Peruvian, GBIF, plant selection (there ya go, search engine), here is a list of plants found in close proximity to the Panguana sirensis locale, which should be accessible in the hobby:

_Adiantum peruvianum
Adiantum raddianum
Barbosella cucullata
Begonia foliosa
Begonia glabra
Begonia maynensis
Cattleya luteola
Columnea purpureovittata
Elaphoglossum metallicum
Elaphoglossum peltatum fo. flabellatum
Epidendrum longirepens
Fittonia albivenis
Ionopsis utricularioides
Lepanthes caudatisepala_
Lepanthopsis - unknown species, no pic
_Masdevallia amabilis
Masdevallia bicolor
Masdevallia minuta
Masdevallia veitchiana
Microchilus anchoriferus
Monstera dubia
Neoregelia mooreana
Ornithocephalus bicornis
Pelexia laxa
Peperomia antoniana
Peperomia crotalophora
Peperomia obtusifolia
Peperomia serpens
Peperomia tetragona
Philodendron brandtianum
Philodendron hederaceum
Philodendron verrucosum
Phragmipedium caudatum
Phragmipedium pearcei
Pilea microphylla
Pilea pubescens
Pilea spruceana
Platystele lancilabris
Pleopeltis percussa
Pleurothallis lindenii
Pleurothallis ruscifolia
Restrepia contorta
Rodriguezia lanceolata
Scaphosepalum_ sp
_Scaphyglottis prolifera
Selaginella erythropus
Solanum uleanum
Specklinia (Pleurothallis) grobyi
Sphyrospermum cordifolium
Stelis concinna
Stelis purpurea
Stelis superbiens
Tillandsia biflora
Tillandsia capillaris
Tillandsia complanata
Tillandsia paleacea
Tillandsia usneoides
Trichocentrum nanum
Trichomanes crispum
Trichomanes elegans
Trichosalpinx (Pleurothallis) orbicularis
Triolena hirsuta
Utricularia alpina
Utricularia jamesoniana
Vriesia incurva_

I'll update this post if/when I find more relevant plants. I certainly won't be using all of these in my build, this is just for reference. I have done my best to include viv-appropriate forest floor and a few canopy plants, and leave out grassy field plants like the 6' terrestrial Habenarias. Trichomanes species may not be feasible in a dart frog environment, as they need very high humidity and very consistent moisture, but when I have extra of my crispum I'll give it a shot right in the path of a mist head.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

I have found sources for all of these bromeliads, so I'm wondering if anyone has experience with size and suitability for thumbnails:

_Neoregelia mooreana
Neoregelia tarapotoensis_ (from Peru, but not near the Panguana locale)
_Tillandsia biflora
Tillandsia complanata_ (neat - flowers out of the sides of the plant, in flower almost constantly) 
@JWerner's noid Peruvian bromeliad, purple undersides, gets quite large

Right now I'm thinking about one _Tillandsia complanata_ and a bunch of either _N. tarapotoensis_ or _N. mooreana_, I like the branching way they both seem to pup, but I'm not sure if the complanata gets too big entirely for an 18x21 footprint.

I'm also really excited, I have located and ordered a rare epiphytic Utricularia from the locale - _Utricularia jamesoniana_. Utrics are one of the only carnivorous plants that I am confident are safe to cohab with dart frogs, they catch tiny organisms with traps on their root systems, so they'll probably make out quite well on springtails. This will be my 2nd epiphytic Utric, I'm already growing quelchii. I'm going to try mounting it with similar conditions to pleurothallids, and if it does well I'll add it to the biotope in the path of one of the mist heads.

My current centerpiece plant ideas are _Pearcea sprucei_ (if I can find it, no luck so far) or _Geogenanthus ciliatus_.


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