# My 55 Gallon Paludarium!!! *update*



## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

I need some ideas plz. I have lots of ideas in my head i just want to know how you would set up yours  after that i will make my desicion.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

Hmm 16 views and no responses :shock: Ok I will tell you what i want to do. I want to divide the tank from the corners not the middle. I was thinking of setting up a waterfall also. I would probably make a little pond on the land portion also. I want to know how to set up the substrate and etc. I originally wanted fish and frogs but i heard that the frogs might eat the fish. keep in mind i never kept any frogs before. What would be a few frogs that a novice like could handle without a problem that aren't noisy since this will be in my living room and my mom would get annoyed if they are constantly making noise lol.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

You won't have an issue with pdfs eating fish, but other kinds of frogs might. I'd personally go for some Auratus for a paludarium. They're easy to keep, swim well, and have a very quiet call. 

16 views and no responces is pretty typical of this forum.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

oh ok lol . Are You talking about poison dart frogs ? I just did a little research on them. So is it true that when they are bred in captivity they lose their poison? I don't want to get sick or anything like that. I know that they said that you can only get sick if you have a cut and you touch them or if you touch them then put your hands in your mouth now who would do that ? As for Fish What Can i Get ? I was thinking cardinal tetras.
Where do i find the grid type things used to create false bottoms ? Also how can i make my substrate ? I checked blackjungle.com and i like their tropical plants alot. I was thinking of making a custom background out of styrofoam aka great-stuff and A type of rain machine  By using a pump in a 2.5 gallon tank and connecting it to some flexible tubing with little holes in them. But before i can do any of this i need to build a custom stand but idk how much everything will cost for the wood . I will check on monday if my dad wants to go to HD with me. How much light will i need ? I was thinking of using 2 2x 40watt T-12 Fxtures But i would need to find a good reflector. Sorry for All this info at once lol


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## forestexotics (Nov 14, 2006)

Wow, lot's of questions there.
Well, most people use eggcrate when creating a false bottom. This can be bought at Home Depot for $10 a sheet. One sheet will be too big for your 55 gallon so you will have extra. This sheet is in the lighting section, It is normally used to cover light fixtures. For substrate I like to use Some pea gravel and then soil with absolutely no chemicals in it (fertilizers or pesticides). Dont forget to cover the eggcrate with some screen (@$5-6 a roll) so your substrate doesnt fall through into your reservoir.
You can use a tubaware container to put your pump in. Make some holes in it and cover it w/ some screen so its harder for dirt to get in and clog the pump. From my experience i had no luck with punching holes in tubing to get a rain effect if thats what you meant. The small pump isnt strong enough and the water only comes out of a couple holes even if all the tubing is completely covered with holes. Its easier to just buy a spray bottle and mist yourself, plus its way cheaper.
Using (great stuff) is good too( @ $5 a can) and youll probably need 2 cans for a 55 gal tank. This foam insulation really makes look more natural rather than having either no background or a pic. taped to the background. I hope this helps a little bit. If you want, visit my website http://www.forstjewels.com and I show a little demonstartion on designing a tank from scratch. Personal message me if you have any questions.....sara
p.s. Leucomelas are great first PDF's! Good luck to ya.


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## tyler (Feb 23, 2006)

http://www.blackjungle.com/gallery/talltank/page1.html <- A pretty thorough walkthrough on creating something along your lines.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

Thanks sara and tyler  Your site is awesome sara i never knew you could make a nice site using bravenet lol. tyler i been to that site already but never actually looked at the pics lol . I am a little confused about how i will heat the tank since i don't want water being under the false bottom because i would need to drill my tank's bottom to drain but it is tempered glass and since i'm not skilled with glass i don't want to. I was planning on using a canister filter but now i'm lost at what to do to heat and filter my tank .


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

This thread should rest any concerns you have about your frogs being toxic. 
http://dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22601


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

It basically anwsers my question but just to be safe are there any other frogs who don't have any toxins ? I really don't want to own something that can possibly hurt me. I'm not going to man handle my frog or anything but what about if i have to take it out to clean the tank or etc ? What type of gloves will protect me from the frog's toxins just in case ? Will the toxins hurt my fish if they scare the frog ? Is there anything else i can own besides a frog that doesn't have any toxins and goes into the water and land and won't hurt my fish?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

All frogs contain some level of toxins. Some are more harmful than others. If there were problems with people getting hurt from pdfs, there would be information about to support it. The lack of that information should say something to you.


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## black_envy (Aug 12, 2006)

I wouldn't worry if I were you, there are only three frogs poisonous enough to kill you (phyllobates terribilis, aurotaenia, and bicolor) and they get their poison from a certain kind of bug in the rainforest. I would be more worried about you killing the frog by washing your hands with soap :lol:


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

Ah ok look at my drawing to show how all the equipment might be set up 









Pink= Pump
Diy Filter
Orange = Sponge
Yellow = Carbon
Green = Bio-Balls

Heater = Blue box.
The 3 holes in the side will be the intake pipes for the pump.
Then the output of the pump wll be connected to the filter box then it will be connected to the heater Then from the heater the water will flow tthrough a tube which will be split behind the waterfall which is the green box. Everything under the land section will be in a glass or plexi enclosure. Then on top of that will be the egg crate and the substrate and ect,
The background will be egg crate covered with great-stuff and the waterfall will be made out of styro also.

Will my metal stand be fine ? I put a styro sheet under the tank and tested it. 
All i need to do is start buying the equipment.
Any suggestions on what pump i should use and how much light i would need and what plants i should put in this? I guess i will stick with the pdf's
Yup i know i type alot.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

Anyone have any ideas on my plan ?


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

*My Updated plan For my 55 gallon*

Here is a picture









*Ok The Land portion will be Separated from the water using PlexiGlass.
Behind the plexiglass there will be the pvc pipe pieces which will rise the top egg crate portion. To make the little pond i will use a bowl covered with gravel . There will be a little stream coming from the pond and it will flow into the water portion. To filter it I Will Probably use A Canister filter. If i do use one The output tube of it will be hidden in the background And flow into a hole in the bowl/pond Then the intake tube will be hidden in the background of the water portion.* 8) 


Ok i got that down. Now how can i allow for no water to be under the false bottom ? I was thinking of sileconing a piece of plexi under the eggcrate sheet to allow the plants to always have water available even though i will add water to them regularly. *Substrate* The eggcrate will be full of coco fiber. Then i will put Potting soil with no added fertilizers and over that then will be moss. Is This A Good Combination ? I am not saying that i won't take care of my frogs i just want it to be easy to maintain without doing lots of work.
How will i heat my paludarium ? This includes the water portion.

Also How much light Will I need ? I'm still iffy about what frogs i will choose though i know it will take a little while to fill in . And for the plants i also don't know what will be fine for the frogs.


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## q (Dec 16, 2006)

That was an OUTSTANDING illustration, and VERY well explained! Nice Job! I am new to the D. Frog Community, and have been viewing and searching stream ideas for days and nothing compares to the simplicity and well illustration provided in your posting.

Of course, it may simply be that other ideas on other sites may indeed be as simple as yours but, are simply not as well explained and/or illustrated. 

Nice Job! Thank you.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

Don't seperate the two. Make the false bottom taller than your water section and allow the water to occupy the whole bottom of your tank. Partitioning the tank creates one more thing that can go wrong, and at that it would be a very big thing. This means you will probably need to go to a sump style configuration, or ditch your water filter system (which isn't really needed). 

As long as the room your tank is in is around 70F, you won't need to heat your tank. 

Potting soil typically contains foam balls to help with aeration of the soild. These little balls stick to frogs and stress them out. Potting soil also tends to get water logged and sour in our tanks. In the sticky at the top of this page there is a link to a thread about soil mixes.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

you are welcome q  ok defaced i don't need a water filtration system ? If not i can just put the heater under the tank and use a pump to circulate the water. But how does the tank stay clean without a filter ? also can you give me a reccomended substrate mixture that you have used before ? i did read all the stickies


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

The water doesn't stay clean, it turns brown and debris accumulates on the floor of the pond. When it starts to smell (I'm serious about this), that's when it needs changed. In all likely hood, you're going go have to siphon off the water often enough that it won't get to that point, especially if you have a pump moving the water. 

For soil mixes, I haven't found one I really like. Coco fiber is looking pretty good so far, but I've not had those tanks set up long enough to really form a decision. I would recommend to you the AGB mix as a solid, reputabe mix. There are a few sponsors who sell it pre mixed, or you can buy the parts and do it your self. 

The recipie is: 
2 parts fine fir bark
2 parts fine tree fern fiber
2 parts milled sphagnum moss
1 part fine charcoal
1 part peat moss


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

lol  how quickly would the water get dirty with 3 frogs ? could i use 
bio-spira like i normally put in my fish tanks to grow the bacteria needed to cycle within a week that will eat the ammonia from the poo of the frogs ?

Also will normal tap water be fine ? my ph is at 6.5 . I normally use tap treated with chlorine and chloramine removers ex: prime, amquel plus for my fish.

Do i need to quarantine my frogs ?
What is a good place to buy them from ?

I still want to separate the land from the water lol. this is a new sketch i came up with. I don't want water under the tank since it will just be sitting there... since i will be connecting the pump to the main pond which will overflow into the stream and the stream will fill up the bottom pond and thats where the intake tube for the pump will be. can i put the heater in the top pond and cover it with gravel ?


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

here is the sketch i forgot to put it in


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

Fish_lover0591 said:


> here is the sketch i forgot to put it in


What did u use to draw that!


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

Its the free version of google sketch-up lol  http://sketchup.google.com/


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

Fish_lover0591 said:


> Its the free version of google sketch-up lol  http://sketchup.google.com/


Thanks!

Very nicely done!

I am going to have fun designing my new chameleon tank tonight!


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

If you put a pump under the land, and have it pump through the dividing wall and then have a return path for the water to get back under the land. If you seperate the two water will end up under the land anyway from misting. 

I use tap water for my tanks, others use distilled or RO. Alot of the decision is personal prefference. If I had an RO unit in my house, I'd use RO water. 

If you get your frogs from the same person, and at the same time, and they're large enough to find food in that tank, then you don't need to quarantine. Most people use 2.5-10 gallon tanks for quaratine. 

There isn't any need for a heater unless your tank is going to be getting very cold on a regular basis, like down into the low 60s.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

AH ok i have an idea  i will use a submersible pump and all the water from the the lowest pond will flow back under the land into the inlet for the pump !then the output tube will be put into the top pond ! this is genious ! lol ok enough of that i will need a heater though since my house doesn't stay warm for long but i wonder how warm the humidifier fog setup and the lights on top of the tank would make the tank... note that this will take some time to build and i would like all of the motivation and patience from you all that i can get hehe 

And oh You are welcome *titan501x*


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

in the google sketch thingy, how do u take a picture like that?


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

You put it in the position you would like it in then you save it as whatever name you want but if you want different views shots of the tank you have to save a copy of it and it will automatically rename it with a 1 or something at the end of the file's name then you open the copy and put it in the position you want then save and upload the file on a free hosting site like photobucket , tinypic and etc, sorry if the text is big lol


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

Fish_lover0591 said:


> You put it in the position you would like it in then you save it as whatever name you want but if you want different views shots of the tank you have to save a copy of it and it will automatically rename it with a 1 or something at the end of the file's name then you open the copy and put it in the position you want then save and upload the file on a free hosting site like photobucket , tinypic and etc, sorry if the text is big lol


cool, i think we just hijacked this forum thingy


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## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

were can i get a 55 gallon tank online?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

You can't, no one will ship it. Best thing to do is to find a pet store, or fish store, and have them order one for you - or find one used in your area.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

Back on topic here :lol: Defaced can you answer my questions?


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

If I'm reading your description right, you're trying to create a closed loop for your water feature. Is that correct?

Get your tank set up, and then see what the temps are. The fewer things you do to a tank that can fail, the better off you'll be.


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## Fish_lover0591 (Dec 16, 2006)

I guess its a closed loop system :lol: I Need to get som sheets of eggcrate since i have about 45.00 and on saturday i will get another 20.00 . So for now i will save up then buy supplies. i'm waiting for christmas to roll by to see what i can collect  Until then i will just be browsing the forum and updating you all if anything good or bad happens.


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