# dartfrog substrate



## HunterB

I'm posting this here because I have expierence with darts but have always used gravel so I'm guessing this is a beginner question....

I'm about to start a 40 gal horizontal and am wondering what's the best bedding\mix? Obviously something that will grow plants well 
=)


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## flyangler18

You ask 10 froggers about the perfect substrate and you'll get 25 different answers. 

The substrate should retain moisture and be relatively light and airy with good drainage - my personal substrate is a mix of coir (coco fiber), orchid bark, coco chips, chopped sphagnum, chopped leaf litter, and peat moss. Top this substrate with a layer of leaf litter.


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## melas

As Jason said there's really no "right" way to do it. I use a mix of coco fiber, peat, tree fern, sand, etc. I know that Patrick Nabors of Saurian Enterprises prefers gravel. I was actually just talking with him about that the other day. I think from the frogs perspective as long as their is a good layer of leaf litter on top they could care less!


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## jcarbone61

I get a product from either Petco or PetsMart thats called '' Jungle Mix ' and it has all the above ingredients mixed in and grows plants well and overall make a great substrate for your darts....on top of a false bottom of some sort of coarse.


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## DCreptiles

im going to have to agree with everyone above with saying.. everyone has a different way to do the same thing lol.. you just have to trial and error and see what works best for you.. i have a very very simple mix lol i use 2 parts co oc fiber one part verminculite and one part spagmoss and if i have the left over forest floor chips ill toss it in. and i use to use exo terra brick moss but it stays to wet so i now just use a nice layer of leaf litter which the frogs seem to love.


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## jackxc925

really the most important part is the leaf litter.


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## fishdoc

I use orchid bark, both in my background and on the floor over gravel over a false floor. However, I just went to phib training and have a new recipe I am going to try. this is from the atlanta zoological gardens and they use this mix on their frogs.
1 part peat moss
1 part fine horticultural charcoal
2 parts fine fir (orchid) bark
2 parts milled sphagnum
1 part medium tree fern.
its also their mix for epiphytic plants...


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## crentania

My first tanks consisted of the ground coco-fiber stuff you buy in bricks from pet stores, some orchid bark and some calci sand mixed in (I thought hey! Springtails move through the substrate... maybe they'll eat the calcium and I'll have super springtails! And calcium happy frogs!). I'm moving over to ABG mix (Atlanta Botanical Gardens) now, and I'm interested to see what the difference turns out to be.


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## Ed

crentania said:


> My first tanks consisted of the ground coco-fiber stuff you buy in bricks from pet stores, some orchid bark and some calci sand mixed in (I thought hey! Springtails move through the substrate... maybe they'll eat the calcium and I'll have super springtails! And calcium happy frogs!). I'm moving over to ABG mix (Atlanta Botanical Gardens) now, and I'm interested to see what the difference turns out to be.


If you want to try calcium cycling in the terrarium then you should check out the ultimate clay thread (just search ultimate clay). 

If you seed your tank with isopods they will eat the calcium as they use a lot of calcium in their cuticle but keep in mind that calcium doesn't do any good without sufficient vitamin D3. 

Ed


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## hr220a

gravel as a drainage layer and a few inches of leaf litter


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## terrorsquad

i know this is an old thread. but i didnt see anyone comment on whats important to the plants. i personaly mix coco fiber with zilla jungle mix, the i mix in magnolia leaves, oak leaves and spaghnum moss. you have to remember you want your plants and mosses just as happy as your frogs.


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## wcruz23

I have a really stupid n3wb question.
I notice people talking about leaf litter is important, does this mean I can just go out back and pick any old leaf little or should I be getting leaves from a specific type of plant? Does anyone sterilize the leaves before putting them in?
Thanks guys!


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## SwampMan

If you are just starting, you may want to get your leaves from a dart frog supplier first. It's a lot easier to track down a problem in your tank when you know you did everything by the book, so to speak.


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## Tazman

The simple answer to your question is yes. But then there are some tree leaves you should never use such as black walnut leaves. Oak, elm, ash, maple, poplar, cottonwood all work. Most of these will break down quickly in a viv. Oak tends to last fairly long. The leaves sold for vivs such as magnolia and live oak last longer.


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## Froggle

Hi guys, just to clarify for newbies like myself. Are the leaves for the benefit of frogs rather than for the benefit of growing plants? 
Thanks


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## toadlicker00

Leaf litter provides hiding spots for the frogs. It also serves to keep the frogs from having direct contact with the substrate, which can stick to their skin and potentially be harmful.


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## Froggle

Thanks for clarifying that Toadlicker00!


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## Ed

toadlicker00 said:


> Leaf litter provides hiding spots for the frogs. It also serves to keep the frogs from having direct contact with the substrate, which can stick to their skin and potentially be harmful.


Or provides egg deposition sites, niches with varying humidity and temperatures (assuming proper ventilation of the enclosure), foraging for food items to encourage natural behaviors, sight barriers, food for isopods and springtails.......... 

Some comments 

Ed


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