# High light plants



## DerekG4 (Aug 26, 2018)

I’ve been trying to look for some really high light plants but I haven’t had much luck for something suitable for my vivarium. 

I was wondering if anybody knows of a couple plants that can handle high amounts of light, my light is fairly bright. I want to see if I can get something dense or bushy as I feel the midground of the tank is a little open. I’m open to anything really, so long as it can handle high light. I had bought a coffee plant and an alocasia which were supposably able to handle high amounts of light, now my alocasia died off and my coffee is getting its tips burnt. 

I have a FluvalSmart Plant light. I used to have it on 80% because I wanted it to be as bright as possible without making the tank too hot but I realized it eventually started burning the plants. I lowered it to about 60% to see if it starts doing better. If anything I’ll lower it more if need be.

On a side note, how do I post an image? I’d like to show the tank so you guys can recommend me something that would be best suited


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## RoryOMoore (Feb 17, 2019)

I also use the Fluvalsmart Plant light for my vivs. I haven't noticed any plant burning. I have mine a little above the glass tops. I use one on my house plant rack, but the only time that has burned is when the plants grow too close to the light itself. I have one viv at 75% and the other at 100% (that's based on the preloaded planted tank setting). In the vivs the plants that are closest to the lights are neoregilias and tillandsias, How far away are your plants from the light? Is there glass top?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

On posting images:
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/beginner-discussion/53573-tutorial-how-upload-photos-forum.html

I'm curious why you wouldn't choose the plants first, and then adjust the light to the levels they need. Also, you say 'viv', implying there will be animals in there. Most animals we tend to keep in vivs prefer subdued lighting.

On the coffee plant: tip browning on plants usually indicates something other than lighting issues (water/humidity issues, often). A pic would help make suggestions for that plant, too, I suppose.


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## DerekG4 (Aug 26, 2018)

Right now I’m not seeing an option for attachments when I reply, I don’t know if I may be too new. But right now it’s a 20 High, it does have a glass top, the light sits right on top of it. My exact settings on it are 100% Pink 100% Blue 65% cold white 50% warm white 45% pure white.


I do have a D. Tinctorius Azurues in there, he’s doing very well. When I had made the vivarium I didn’t really research the exact levels of light they needed. I was kind of in a rush and I just wanted to have it made as soon as possible. Right now it has 2 bromeliads, not entirely sure of their names, I know they’re both epiphytes, 1 is solid red with broad leaves and the other is green with red stripes and pointer, narrower leaves. I have that coffee plant, a small Nepenthes, 2 S. Arboricola, Solonum, a couple creeping ficus of different colors, some Java moss, a “money tree” (peperomia if im not mistaken?), bits of rainbow spike moss, some tilandsia airplant, an aroid vine, aristolochia fimbriata, and some Huperzia hamiltonii. I definitely should’ve researched more, but even now I just don’t see many high light plants on google, so I figured hopefully you guys will give me some good suggestions. I don’t mind the price of the plant (so long as it’s not like over $100 for a plant) if it will work and looks nice I’ll get it.

My vivarium has a foam background with coco fiber on it as well as a large stump on the left side and a branch coming out of the background along with some bits of cork bark.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The thread I linked to has instructions on how to imbed images using a third party image sharing website.

When the plants you already have get even half grown, that viv will be solid plants with no room for air, let alone a frog. You mention twice that you didn't research sufficiently before starting because you were in a rush (was there a fire? Viv building race?); I wonder if now would be the right time to stop and take stock of where you are so far, and what you may do differently after more research.

Also: I trust the top has some screen area for air exchange? That's really important for the health of frogs and plants.


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## DerekG4 (Aug 26, 2018)

I was in a rush because I received the frog as a birthday gift and I didn’t have a good setup for him. So once I got the supplies I built it quickly. I previously had it in a 10 gallon with a lot of moist dirt and moss, then once my backgrounds silicone dried up and had no smell, I put him in 

It has no air exchange. I was told by 3 people (A dart frog Breeder near me, Josh’s frogs, and a guy at Repticon) that it should be completely covered so no moisture leaves the tanks and that it’s almost pointless to have air exchange because the plants will be creating oxygen for the frog anyway. I’ve had it for almost a year now, he’s perfectly fine and Eats eagerly. I’ve honestly haven’t had any significant plant growth. The only plant I have in there that has grown a lot is the money tree and I just trim it because it looks overgrown and ugly.

https://s1126.photobucket.com/user/...-41DF-9950-18964041EB4D_zps1wafpb8b.jpeg.html


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## Kinstrome (Oct 6, 2017)

I'm surprised that Josh's Frogs said that. That's weird.

People go out of their way to build fan systems in their vivariums here, just for the frogs, so although I'm not a frogger I strongly suspect you need some ventilation, even if it's just a little bit.

That was poor planning of the gifter to give you an animal so soon, with no notice, knowing full well that frogs aren't the kind of animal you can just let chill out in the living room while you build a vivarium. It's a nice present, but they should have held it for you or otherwise delayed its arrival until you were ready for it. Even if you had frogs before you got the gift, it was not wise for someone to put that on you.


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## DerekG4 (Aug 26, 2018)

See, this is why I don’t like researching much. A lot of people have conflicting advice for certain things, I just like to ask one person and be done with it. I trust Josh’s frogs, everyone’s told me they’re a good company and they know their stuff. As of now ventilation wise I’ve had no problem. Same way everyone’s told me airplants need lots of airflow, my viv of course has no airflow whatsoever and they’re doing pretty good, one even bloomed a flower which I assume means it’s doing great. The exact question I had asked at the time was what kind of lid should I use, mesh, glass top or some sort of hybrid? The person that messaged me had said that that was a good question, saying that if I’m doing live plants I should have it completely covered to prevent moisture from leaving the viv and that the plants would create oxygen for the frog anyway. He/she did not mention anything about needing or suggesting that it would be beneficial to have airflow of some kind.

So now I have conflicting information. Either I make a fan system somehow or stick to what I’ve previously been doing that’s worked with me since I started the viv. I don’t know, I’ve always been a “if it ain’t broken, don’t try to fix it” kind of guy.

But back on topic if possible, what high light plants would you guys recommend? I’d prefer something thick or bushy but anything works.


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## Kinstrome (Oct 6, 2017)

DerekG4 said:


> See, this is why I don’t like researching much. A lot of people have conflicting advice for certain things, I just like to ask one person and be done with it. I trust Josh’s frogs, everyone’s told me they’re a good company and they know their stuff. As of now ventilation wise I’ve had no problem. Same way everyone’s told me airplants need lots of airflow, my viv of course has no airflow whatsoever and they’re doing pretty good, one even bloomed a flower which I assume means it’s doing great. The exact question I had asked at the time was what kind of lid should I use, mesh, glass top or some sort of hybrid? The person that messaged me had said that that was a good question, saying that if I’m doing live plants I should have it completely covered to prevent moisture from leaving the viv and that the plants would create oxygen for the frog anyway. He/she did not mention anything about needing or suggesting that it would be beneficial to have airflow of some kind.
> 
> So now I have conflicting information. Either I make a fan system somehow or stick to what I’ve previously been doing that’s worked with me since I started the viv. I don’t know, I’ve always been a “if it ain’t broken, don’t try to fix it” kind of guy.
> 
> But back on topic if possible, what high light plants would you guys recommend? I’d prefer something thick or bushy but anything works.


I share a distaste for research for the same reason. Usually, though, if you do enough research, it becomes evident which side is right, unless it's a very controversial issue. 

It is seldom, too, that I've spoken to three different authorities and all three have been wrong. So I can sympathize with your desire to not overcomplicate things. Just keep an open mind to the different arguments for and against air flow and you'll come to a comfortable conclusion.

On high light plants: I don't think you can go wrong with a Neoregelia. Hardy, easy to water, attractive, and affordable. And, of course, it loves to lap up high light.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The FluvalSmart Plant light (I just looked it up) draws 32w in the 24" size. That's comparable, _on the low end_, to what lots of folks here would light a 24" viv with. For comparison, a 24" Spectral Designs panel (the narrow one, which is what is best sized for a 20g tall tank) draws 37 watts.

https://spectraldesigns.com/products/22-x-8-led-light-strip-panel


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## @eco.tyler (Jun 14, 2019)

If your light sits directly on the glass hood, I would elevate them a few inches; that will definitely help mitigate part of the problem. Sure, 32W doesn’t sound like much, but when you consider LUX and PAR readings, even that low wattage can emit light too strong for plants over that small distance. 
Based on the photo, it looks like some of those plants are getting burned. The bromeliad on the left looks like it has some burning. Elevating the light should help, but I would also cover the roots in damp moss to really help get them established and growing. You could probably keep that light st 100%, so long as it’s elevated a few inches. I use a lux meter, and you would be surprised at how huge a difference just a few inches makes!

Simply put too, most of the plants in that vivarium will quickly outgrow it under optimal conditions. Your nepenthes will soon burn too, but not from lighting. Unless you’re washing the roots off, or using a form of filtered water, the roots will eventually burn due to mineral buildup from tap. 

For ventilation, I think it’s a necessity to have some form of ventilation — even if it’s minimal. However, as often as we go into our vivs to feed, maintain, etc., you have to consider if just opening the lid a couple times a day is enough. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum, in that I actually give my vivs a “dry out” period of a few days, every couple weeks or so. I think it’s important for the health of the entire little microcosm. When I say dry out, I just mean not misting for a few days, and maybe opening the top a little more frequently. Personally, i’ve found that to benefit both the plants and animals best. You’ll notice ventilation varies from person to person, and it’s often dictated by what is in the vivarium already. 

Socratic is right in that you can’t diagnose based on the browning tips alone, but I can tell you that the close light placement, in combination with ventilation, or lack thereof, helps narrow it down a bit. If you wish to keep it 100% sealed, you could always opt for plants that will tolerate the high humidity. I understand sometimes it’s difficult to ventilate a viv properly!

Tyler


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I'm not sure I see 'burning' in the Neo on the left. Those are distinct spots, more consistent with a fungal or bacterial issue. Burning is typically a non-distinct patch nearest the lighting source. The tips of the coffee plant look like a typical response to mineral buildup in the substrate, or to lack of water/humidity.

My point about saying that 32w on a viv that size 'doesn't sound like much' wasn't meant to mean that plants couldn't be sunburned by it, but rather to show that this isn't a 'high light' viv, and so DerekG4 could well choose plants based on something other than a perceived need for a high amount of light. Lighting wise, any of the commonly available viv plants should do well in there.

A year without substantial growth indicates that something is amiss. It isn't likely lighting - that red Neo looks really good, although the center _Schefflera_ seems to be reaching (which I would expect in a plant that takes full sun outside here in Wisconsin). That fixture seems to be all about color rendition (pink LEDs), rather than simple intensity. 

I'd suspect that water is being restricted so as to minimize the fogging of the glass. Increasing water would be challenging given the ventilation situation.


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## DerekG4 (Aug 26, 2018)

I had a couple plants turn yellow and some eventually died, which is what led me to believe it was because of the light being too bright. I had multiple begonias all turn yellow in different spots, I had an alocasia that had both its leaves turn yellow and wither away, I had another one that I forgot the name of that was labeled i believe “prayer plant” that I got from Lowe’s, it was green with red veins on it, it was thick and the leaf had like protrusions on it, that one I saw was low light But I guess even in the spot I had it at was too much. I also had a “glowstar” fern but that one turned brown and just lost leaves, couldn’t tell it that was due to light, you can see it in the pic there’s some remnants of it in the center.

The only plants I have now that’s still in there that’s being affected is the bromeliad on the left (not all the leaves are affected however) and the center schefflera. That schefflera is weird to me because it was a nice green just like the left one and turned yellow (assuming from the light) but it appears as if it’s reaching.

I originally had my light on max intensity but after 10 minutes I realized it was giving off way too much heat, it had the viv around 85°, I was told it shouldn’t be any higher than 80° so I lowered the intensity to the point that it wouldn’t be hotter than 80° at its peak time. If that lowered setting is what really burned the plants, I can’t imagine it at 100% brightness.

About the water, my drainage layer is about 2” deep, I was told the actual water layer shouldn’t be any higher than 3/4’s of it, so I kinda minimized spraying (I used to spray it pretty heavily), normally I would spray it probably once a day or 2. Naturally behind the stump and at the right corner with the Java moss it’s pretty moist, so in case it does get somewhat dry there’s those two spots the frog can moisten itself. I have a big seed pod in the corner that I used as a water bowl but the Java moss I guess rooted into it and broke through, so anytime I pour water in it it’ll just go through in about 20 minutes. Should I spray more often/amount? 

Could it be I don’t have much growth because the dirt’s nutrients have been depleted? I’ve never added any sort of plant nutrients/fertilizers to the viv.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

If you think that the light is too bright, turn it down or raise it farther above the viv. Then, over weeks and months, evaluate growth. 

When the plants dies and you took them out, how did the root systems look? Typically, plants that are overlit will drop leaves (scorched, rather than yellowed), and try to regrow new ones that are acclimated to the light levels. If the roots were less than healthy looking, suspect poor drainage, poor airflow at the roots. 

No small part of the heat issue is due to the fact that in a sealed viv, heat from lighting goes in and can't get out. In a vented viv -- that draws air in near the bottom and expels it from the top -- the heat from lighting actually increases ventilation (warm air rises) and draws the temp down.

The frog's waste is enough to fertilize plants in a viv. If a person saw rampant growth for a year that slowly tapered off over the next year, perhaps a case could be made for some sort of nutrient depletion, but I don't think that is common in vivs at all. If your plants aren't growing like gangbusters, they're not depleting anything.

You say "dirt". What is the substrate, exactly? And what water do you use in the viv? Do you use this same water for other houseplants? If tap water, what's the source (a private well, municipality). Where, roughly, do you live (certain areas of the world have tap water that is distinctly challenging to use for plants)?

Typically, people will add water to a viv (by misting) according to how much the viv and its inhabitants need (not according to the amount of water in the drainage layer). When the drainage layer gets full, you draw off that water (either through a drain, or from above using a pump or syphon or whatever you can rig up).


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## ashdavisa (Oct 27, 2018)

DerekG4 said:


> I had a couple plants turn yellow and some eventually died, which is what led me to believe it was because of the light being too bright. I had multiple begonias all turn yellow in different spots, I had an alocasia that had both its leaves turn yellow and wither away, I had another one that I forgot the name of that was labeled i believe “prayer plant” that I got from Lowe’s, it was green with red veins on it, it was thick and the leaf had like protrusions on it, that one I saw was low light But I guess even in the spot I had it at was too much. I also had a “glowstar” fern but that one turned brown and just lost leaves, couldn’t tell it that was due to light, you can see it in the pic there’s some remnants of it in the center.
> 
> The only plants I have now that’s still in there that’s being affected is the bromeliad on the left (not all the leaves are affected however) and the center schefflera. That schefflera is weird to me because it was a nice green just like the left one and turned yellow (assuming from the light) but it appears as if it’s reaching.


This sounds/looks like a water problem to me, not a light issue. Most houseplants appreciate more light than you think they would. You can google "sunburned plants" to get an idea of what light exposure does to plants- they tend to get brown and crispy. You'd need some _really_ intense terrarium lighting to accomplish that.

It's not easy to tell, but it looks like the leaves of a couple plants are browning at the ends. That could be underwatering (although your plants don't look droopy, so I don't think it's that), overwatering (especially in a closed system with nowhere for evaporated water to go), or possibly salt/water quality damage.

Regardless, you should really add a means for airflow. Nothing really does well in a stagnant, closed system. It _can_ be done with plants such as ferns and mosses, but you cannot count on a handful of plants to produce enough clean air for living animals.


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## FrogPrince (Sep 20, 2018)

For high light, for me bromeliads form a great canopy and take a lot of light especially when hardened outside in the summer.


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