# First viv - some rookie questions



## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Hi everybody 

I have a build thread going over in Member's Frogs & Vivs but I realized I'm starting to come up with quite a few questions and thought it would make more sense to have a thread in the beginner section for these questions that pop up. I never did a build thread before so it's not as detailed as the more experienced posters, but, I tried. Here's the thread if anybody is interested: 









Brian's First Build - Advice Welcomed, Ranitomeya


I feel like I'm documenting my kids first haircut with that title, but here goes! Currently I'm collecting everything that I think I will need for the build, but of course I order things, and realize I need more things, so I've been making multiple orders from the same vendors, a little...




www.dendroboard.com





So basically I just wanted to bounce everything off the board and calm my nerves that I'm doing everything OK for a first timer - I want to get a group of _R. Sirensis _to be the viv's inhabitants, planning to get them no earlier than the first week of May to allow plants time to root, springs and isopods to establish, mold to cycle, etc. As long as shipping weather is cooperative, May is my goal for frogs. The exact locale I am unsure of.. but I am heavily leaning towards 'Rio Pachitea' or maybe 'Highland'... the others really interest me as well, but I have barely seen them mentioned on DB so I'm naturally looking at the ones I see talked about more. 

I expect to start my FF cultures sometime in early-mid April so I can start practicing and figuring out how that all works. I have 2 springtail cultures going on clay, feeding a pinch of active bakers yeast 1x / week. Starter isopod culture I just tossed in the viv 

Viv is an InSitu Amazonia with MistKing setup. 

Currently I have it going for 30 seconds at lights on (8 AM), a quick 10 second spritz at 1 PM, and another 30 seconds at 5 PM (I am thinking I should make the evening mist a little later, like 7 PM). Lights out at 10 PM for a 14 hour photo period. As of this morning, I started directly hand misting some of the plants with the morning and evening mist session because I got a little concerned about a couple of them possibly not getting enough water from misting alone - I know, I know... it's recommended to start with hand misting before getting into the misting systems, but I like gadgets and honestly I didn't expect to be so impressed with a misting system. I love it. I'm sure that I will have to adjust the misting schedule as things grow in and moisture balances out, but for now mostly everything seems to be rid of standing water in about 2 hours post-misting. 

For ventilation, I am running the interior circulating fans 24/7 with the exterior air intakes closed. Top-rear vents I have closed. The bottom front intakes, and the top-front vents are open. 

Lighting currently at 100% to encourage rooting and plant growth, expecting to dim that down to 80-90% when frogs come. 

Substrate is charcoal, window screen, ABG, copious amounts of leaf litter. Currently leaf litter a little messed up because I cleared space around plants while they root but I'll fix that. 

Plants so far:

_Neo. Fireball _
_Neo. Big O _
_Pluerothallis Grobyi_
_Macodes Petola _
_Marcgravia_ sp. Ecuador #9 - very concerned about this one, and the reason I started misting additionally by hand. It came out of the bleach dip looking much lighter than it went in, I decided to plant it anyway, and over a couple of days it looked like it started dropping a leaf... I went to touch it (stupid me) and knocked off 2 or 3 in the process. So I'm pretty sure this guy is on his way out. Pics below 
_Marcgravia _sp. Puerto Rico 
_Pellionia Pulchra_
_Begonia Foliosa_ (99% sure I killed this with bleach dip, its on its death bed) 
_Sinningia Musciola_...pretty sure this wont make it either. I dont know if it arrived in poor condition, but it was not attached to the soil at all (was supposed to be rooted). I pinned it into some spag and well see what happens. I tossed the soil part, but after the fact, I learned there may have been a tuber in there I could have saved. To be fair I didn't know what a tuber was before that. 
_Microgramma_ _Reptans _sp. Ecuador 
_Microgramma Vacciniifolia_
_Peperomia Prostrata_ - definitely came out of the bleach dip looking much lighter than it went in, but seems to be hanging in there 
_Peperomia Emarginella_
_Anthurium Polystichum _
_Philodendron Grazielae _
Full frontal from a couple of days ago: 










I took some pics this morning before misting, and immediately after. Over the weekend I can probably grab some pics, 2 hours after misting for example, to show how it dries out. 

Before misting: 






































Immediately after misting: 

















































My concerns are: 

How does everything look in general for _Ranitomeya_...do I need more broms now or can I let these pup out and fill in that way?
Plant health - planted less than a week, I think I planted it 3/16 or 3/17. I know I need to give it more time... but just a general concern. Especially about the _Marcgravia, _I'll include another pic of that. 
Additional planting suggestions? I have a _Philodendron _in the house I am really wanting to take a cutting of and stick it in the viv. Pic to follow. I dont want to get too crazy, I would like everything to grow in on its own so I am pretty satisfied where I am. Especially if I add the _Philodendron _I have. The only thing else I would consider adding, 1 more brom, and maybe some airplants (_Tillandsia - _Any suggestions?). That left side of the stumpy log has a couple great nooks that are calling for some sort of plant, and even at the very top of the stump, I am thinking something could go on there. 
That wood on the right... is it olive wood? If so, how long do we think I have before it rots out? It was too late by the time I realized it's probably olive wood / olive vine so I decided to just leave it and see what happens. I intentionally left an air gap between the substrate and the bottom of that stick, you just cant see it because of the leaf litter. Just a futile attempt to slow down the wood wicking up water and rotting out. 
Anything else stand out to the more experienced folks as something that needs a 2nd look or should be changed? 
Lastly, the _Marcgravia _that isn't doing well, and the _Philodendron _that I am about 3 days away from taking a cutting off of. I am just a littttttle worried it might be a pain in the viv - where it's currently hanging, it seems to be thriving. I just hope it wouldn't grow so fast that it's a pain to keep pruning every so often. BUT the leaves look like a great size and I have a good spot for it in the viv... 

Oops. going to have to add those in the next post, hit the limit for pics already. 

Thanks for reading!


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

The _Marcgravia _in question



















The _Philo. _I would like to add 










This one would be going up the back wall. The other philo I have, is right front and center, I plan on (trying to) having it run up that curved piece of wood its planted next to. There's a vine I'm eyeing on this one that would probably be a perfect fit for where I want to place it. I'm just waiting for the new leaf to finish unfurling before I cut it. 

Best way to root that Philo? I'm definitely going to bleach dip, I know I have mealybugs on the houseplants. That's something else I am a little concerned about. Maybe ill do a 10% alchohol spray before the bleach dip... overkill?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

The wood piece on the left.... You are going to LOVE IT ... it's almost undoubtedly going to be where a male _Ranitomeya sirensis_ (or other _Ranitomeya_) will sit to call for females (assuming that your sirensis act like my group)... 



BrianTL said:


> Anything else stand out to the more experienced folks as something that needs a 2nd look or should be changed?


More leaf litter. You'll thank me later. The frogs will go running through the leaf litter to find flies they missed the first time around. It's fun to watch the leaf litter move from frogs running under it. Also leads, IME, to bolder frogs. 


BrianTL said:


> Additional planting suggestions? I have a _Philodendron _in the house I am really wanting to take a cutting of and stick it in the viv.


I wouldn't add more plants, yet. I would, when you get the frogs, lower the light intensity instead. This will give the frogs the feeling of being in the shade and make them a little more bold.


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## Imatreewaterme (May 19, 2021)

If you want to root that Philodendron just stick a cutting in damp sphagnum in an enclosed clear container and give it enough light. Once it is rooted and you see new growth that's when I would bleach dip it. 

Not sure how your bleach dips went south, but I recommend making sure you soak the plants in water for a while 10-20 mins prior to the bleaching. I usually do a few mins in 5% bleach for most of my plants and this has not killed my delicate ones yet. After I bleach I rinse with warm water and soak the plant again in water that has dechlorinator in it.

You could add more plants if you like. Your plants will grow in over time and you will see bare areas you 
may want to add more to as it does. 

Another thing you could do is get some mother plants going in a bin and take cuttings from it and root them first then add them to the enclosure so you always have a supply. I am only mentioning this because the hobby is quite addicting and you might want additional frogs/tanks later.


Have fun with it and good luck with the future inhabitants.

Ricky


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> The wood piece on the left.... You are going to LOVE IT ... it's almost undoubtedly going to be where a male _Ranitomeya sirensis_ (or other _Ranitomeya_) will sit to call for females (assuming that your sirensis act like my group)...
> 
> 
> More leaf litter. You'll thank me later. The frogs will go running through the leaf litter to find flies they missed the first time around. It's fun to watch the leaf litter move from frogs running under it. Also leads, IME, to bolder frogs.
> ...


I already do love that wood piece! I loved it even before it was in the viv, I thought it would be a great way to use up some of the negative space and give more climbing area to the frogs. 

Seeing a male do some calling from there would be awesome. I was hoping the frogs would like it, so seeing that come together would be really exciting. 

For the leaf litter, I definitely plan to add more! I went a little light the first time around because I knew I'd be planting and needed to get to the ABG. I actually put some sea grape down first, I read on here that's pretty nutrient rich leaf litter, and then I want to say magnolia after that. I have some real nice BIG southern magnolia leaves and a good amount of smaller leaf litter I was going to put down closer to getting the frogs so they get a nice fresh layer on top. Or should I put it in now? 

Understood on the plants! I thought it looked pretty bare actually and was figuring at least an extra brom would be useful for the frogs - but maybe once one of the others pup (hopefully), I'll cut it and stick it on/near that nice wood stump. Still on the fence about my houseplant philodendron... theres a spot in the background it could potentially fill in nicely when it grows. 



Imatreewaterme said:


> If you want to root that Philodendron just stick a cutting in damp sphagnum in an enclosed clear container and give it enough light. Once it is rooted and you see new growth that's when I would bleach dip it.
> 
> Not sure how your bleach dips went south, but I recommend making sure you soak the plants in water for a while 10-20 mins prior to the bleaching. I usually do a few mins in 5% bleach for most of my plants and this has not killed my delicate ones yet. After I bleach I rinse with warm water and soak the plant again in water that has dechlorinator in it.
> 
> ...


Maybe the bleach dip went south because they were cuttings and not rooted? I definitely soaked them all in water for at least 10 minutes before the bleach dip - which was 9 cups of water + 1 cup of bleach. They were in batches so some ended up being 10 minutes and some were closer to 20. 

Thanks for the tips! I will, at some plant, establish some mother plants - probably take some cuttings out of this tank once I get to the point I need to trim stuff back. Just cause I know myself, I know at some point I'll have another tank but definitely trying to take things slow and figure everything out before getting ahead of myself


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

1). Looks good.  A couple more Neos wouldn't hurt, but waiting for pups is one way to get those.

3). I personally wouldn't add more plant species. I try to shoot for about 4 or so species in that size viv, lest it get too busy. Frogs don't care, though, so up to your tastes. I've never understood _Tillandsia_ in a dart viv -- they need special misting frequencies, don't do anything for frogs and look funny IMO.

5). Evening misting sessions aren't useful for the frogs (they're headed to a damp, humid hide for the night anyway) and aren't at all good for the plants (which need some drying out time). I'm not sure why they're a part of so many misting schedules.

On bleach: ten minutes is something I time pretty closely, and if I'm doing overlapping batches I write down the stop time on a scratch paper and pull them at that time. Also, 1 part to 9 parts is for bleach that is 5.25% Cl content -- if using stronger (it is sold up to 8.25% Cl content) adjustments to the mix should be made.

I always bleach fresh cuttings (10% for 10 min) and have never had an issue with it that I can recall.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> 1). Looks good.  A couple more Neos wouldn't hurt, but waiting for pups is one way to get those.
> 
> 3). I personally wouldn't add more plant species. I try to shoot for about 4 or so species in that size viv, lest it get too busy. Frogs don't care, though, so up to your tastes. I've never understood _Tillandsia_ in a dart viv -- they need special misting frequencies, don't do anything for frogs and look funny IMO.
> 
> ...


Thank you! 

Okay, so I'm definitely going to scrap the _Tillandsia _plan. I thought they looked kinda cool when they flower, but, I also thought that they were a more natural fit for the viv. I didn't love the idea but thought it could be interesting. Definitely not too upset over scrapping the idea though. 

I DO want to try to avoid it looking too busy and overcrowded with plants, which I think I would certainly be approaching if I kept adding. Honestly I am still on the fence about that one_ Philodendron_ I have but we'll see. I really was thinking about that one for the frogs, I think it would provide good cover and I think that the leaves are a good size. The only reason I was even thinking that is because I realized I didn't have too many "cover" plants, I have the trailing _peperomia_, the creeping _microgramma_, etc. Cover plants really consist of the Neos, the vining _Anthurium_ in there and the _Philodendron Grazielae._

I think I'll let everything grow in as is, and see how I feel down the line. That's probably the better plan. I was just worried it would be too sparse for the frogs by the time I get them, even with the lights dimmed a bit. But you guys would know better than me! 

As long as I dont NEED more Neos right now I will let them pup. 

@Socratic Monologue , would you be able to provide me with an example of your misting times? I realize my needs wont mirror yours specifically, but just wondering. 

It sounds like I probably did mess up the bleaching somewhere - definitely possible. I will check the bottle when I get home, maybe it was a stronger mix than 5.25% . That would make sense. 

When it came to actual time in the bleach solution, that was 10 minutes sharp. The pre-bleach soak in pure water, could have varied from 10-20 mins.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

BrianTL said:


> @Socratic Monologue , would you be able to provide me with an example of your misting times? I realize my needs wont mirror yours specifically, but just wondering.


I play with them seasonally, but right now I'm at about 30 seconds each at 9AM, 11AM, and 2PM. Once in a while I toggle the MistKing on manually and walk away until I get nervous (a few minutes; I wish I were more adventurous). I pay attention to broms and film canisters and flush most of those myself every few days.

Venting on my Exos is 50% on most of them, and my InSitus are currently back full open, 2 front vents open, fans about 75% (running 12vdc, so about 100% with the 9vdc power supply that InSitu provides). Room ambient is currently low 70sF, ~50%RH.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I play with them seasonally, but right now I'm at about 30 seconds each at 9AM, 11AM, and 2PM. Once in a while I toggle the MistKing on manually and walk away until I get nervous (a few minutes; I wish I were more adventurous). I pay attention to broms and film canisters and flush most of those myself every few days.
> 
> Venting on my Exos is 50% on most of them, and my InSitus are currently back full open, 2 front vents open, fans about 75% (running 12vdc, so about 100% with the 9vdc power supply that InSitu provides). Room ambient is currently low 70sF, ~50%RH.


Oh wow ok, I'm going to readjust mine to look closer to yours and see how it goes. I actually like the idea of a dryer afternoon/evening better for the reasons you mentioned. I'll see what effect that has, maybe I'll end up having to open the rear vents. 

Ambient room temps I'm getting maybe 65 average, 60-62 low. It's my unheated basement but it should warm up a touch with the freezing temps finally on their way out. Come fall I plan to get an oil heater or something for the basement to keep the temps in the mid 60s. 

You just reminded me though, I put in my notes to get a "Brom Wash Bottle" ... just ordered that. Got this link from a post on here somewhere, may have been yours 









ACM Economy Wash Bottle, LDPE, Squeeze Bottle Medical Label Tattoo (500ml / 16oz / 1 Bottle): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


ACM Economy Wash Bottle, LDPE, Squeeze Bottle Medical Label Tattoo (500ml / 16oz / 1 Bottle): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com





Thanks again!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Yep, that's the sort of bottle I use.

Just FYI, running things wetter/more humid when growing in plants is generally a good practice. Unrooted cuttings need a little help with reducing transpiration until they get well established. 

My reptile room is in the basement too, and I simply installed vents in the HVAC ductwork that runs through the room. Works great.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

I wish I had HVAC, I'm in a 1910 ish house that barely saw any updates until I came along. Radiators and window units for me. I just finished the basement and put some electric heating pads below the tile for supplemental heat to take the chill out in the winter. It does an ok job and can get the room up to mid-high 60's during winter, but I want to just have an additional heat source for redundancy/safety. 

If it were a long term home for me I would have done things a bit different, but probably moving within the next 2 years I would imagine. I looked at the cost to convert the house to central heat and a/c... couldn't justify the $$$


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Our previous house had gravity fed hot water heat. I liked it -- really cool technology. Much more deeply satisfying than forced air heating.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Got a couple of these guys running around the viv, look like little spiders to me? Black, may have been some color markings but hard to see. Pretty tiny. Look familiar to anybody?

Edit: on 2nd thought, I’m not a bug guy but spiders have 3 body sections, right? Whatever this is looks like 2. Hmm. I had seen one that was hiding in the leaf litter, looked like it was in an ambush spot











No real updates to report other than some decent (what I assume to be) aerial root growth from the Broms, and the marcrgravia seems to making an ok recovery after dropping a few leaves. Definitely looks to be regaining its color so I take that as a good thing.

i was worried about the _P. Prostrata, _which I had in one of the wall planters trailing down. It wasn’t looking so good so I brought the trailing strands up and tucked it more into the planter to get more exposure to the ABG, hoping that helps it.

Brom roots and the Marc/prostrata


































Also, I know the runoff from misting is never going to be equal and the viv absorbs water and evap too, but what should I be expecting? The moisture balanced out, I dumped the waste and refilled the reservoir to start to get an idea for this. Is there an average ratio? Say 2:1 misted to runoff?


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

That's not a spider, whatever it is; that critter has six legs plus antennae.

I never really thought about the ratio of input/output water. I put about 4 gallons of water in my mister reservoir probably once a week or a little less often. I might empty a gallon of water a week, just roughly estimating. I run a lot of ventilation, though (about 50% on Exos, and close to full open on InSitus). My clay bottom InSitus seem to drain off a lot more water than my foam/ABG Exos, which makes sense. There are probably a lot of variables.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

I assume whatever it is will become frog food eventually. Kind of figured the same in regards to drainage!

I modified my misting schedule to mimic yours, @Socratic Monologue. Doing a bit of supplemental afternoon target misting to help the plants while they’re adjusting. I think this is a better method than what I had before, thank you. The viv dries out nicely in the afternoon/evening. Interesting to see how some areas stay damp


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

BrianTL said:


> Got a couple of these guys running around the viv, look like little spiders to me? Black, may have been some color markings but hard to see. Pretty tiny. Look familiar to anybody?
> 
> Edit: on 2nd thought, I’m not a bug guy but spiders have 3 body sections, right? Whatever this is looks like 2. Hmm. I had seen one that was hiding in the leaf litter, looked like it was in an ambush spot
> 
> ...


That's just a globular springtail, nothing to worry about. Like other springtails they feed on rotting plant matter.

Spiders have 2 body sections, the cephalothorax (the head and thorax fused together) and the abdomen.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Thanks! Weird how things just find their way in.

and thanks for the correction on spiders as well, told you I wasn’t a bug guy!


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Didnt expect to be staring at this thing as much as I am already, and I don’t even have frogs yet. Interesting noticing every little change! Downside, I over think everything. I know with plants it’s just letting them do their thing and don’t interfere too much, usually causes more harm than good…

I ordered fly kits from NE herp they should be here tomorrow so I can start practicing. The included directions seem simple enough but I wouldn’t be surprised if I miss it up.

Any microgramma people able to ease my concerns about these ones, or should I have set them differently?

the longer one is Vacciniifolia and the other one is Ecuador - Reptans. My goal for both was to have them creeping up the wood they’re laying on, but second guessing myself thinking they should be getting more exposure to soil

they’re both in pretty moist soil with seemingly good airflow. No new growth to speak of but both rhizomes seem to be forming to the wood


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

The vaccinofolia looks fine to me. It'll send out roots and should grow up the wood ok.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> The vaccinofolia looks fine to me. It'll send out roots and should grow up the wood ok.


Perfect!

I’ve also decided I definitely want a Sirensis group!


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Looks like I have a mushroom? Noticed this popping out from the spag in the shady side of that planter on the left wall


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Cute one.  There's a great ongoing thread for mushrooms if you'd like to add the photo over there too.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Cute one.  There's a great ongoing thread for mushrooms if you'd like to add the photo over there too.


thanks! I saw that thread I was going to post in there as it grows a little more. Surprised to see one so soon


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Well, things seem to be moving along decently. I have a really strong springtail population established in the viv, they are everywhere. I’m assuming the frogs will start snacking on them pretty quickly and get the population down to an equilibrium of sorts, but man they exploded.

fruit fly cultures seem to be going along okay. My starter culture took a little longer than anticipated to boom, and it finally did and I have started my next culture.

plants seem to be establishing nicely, I’m actually really surprised at how many aerial roots the broms are sending out. One of them is securing itself really well against a piece of wood and the other has grown a few inches of roots still looking to find something secure.

frogs are due in tomorrow. can’t wait to get them. A group of 4 R. Sirensis Highland, Netherlands/Holland line, and OOW since Sept/Oct.

a little nervous but I do think I’m at a good spot all around and ready for their arrival


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

We’re in! Thanks to everybody for the help so far! 

i have the lights at maybe 80-90% now. Not sure if I should be pushing closer to 75-80, I guess we’ll see what they do.

they all went into hiding pretty quick - I picked them up and got them out on my lunch break today. Threw in some dusted flies in case they were hungry after their travels but all in all I am feeling good about this.

they’re way smaller than I imagined. Couldn’t help a touch of paranoia that one could have jumped out without me noticing…but I was pretty careful.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Beautiful frogs!


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## Eurydactylodes (Sep 7, 2021)

I love highland sirensis.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Thank you very much! I kinda saw them come up for sale and knew they were it. Couldn’t be happier

even heard a call already, so exciting! 

I knocked my lights back to what I would say is 85-90 percent power, it’s a bit dimmer but I’m wondering if I should go lower. Also I have them running from 8 AM to 10 PM, is that too long?

my search ability was just not pulling up what I was looking for. I know I’ve read it here but for whatever reason I couldn’t find it.

I’ve been able to locate up to 3 at once. 2 of them have been hanging out in the broms all day


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

BrianTL said:


> Also I have them running from 8 AM to 10 PM, is that too long?


My lights go from 9am to 11pm. So the same amount of time that you have


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> My lights go from 9am to 11pm. So the same amount of time that you have


thank you!


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

Ok next question. Aggression or mating behavior?

I just came down to take a look, saw 2 frogs in the same leaf of the brom…innuendo aside, coming out and going back in. Looked like a bit of wrestling but also may have been the “pawing at the back” move. One frog got on the others back, full koala style, messed around on the leaf a bit more and then separated.

The left frog in this picture let out a call after separating. I think he was the one who went koala but I cannot say for certain. I missed a beautiful shot from the front side of them each on a different leaf, one above the other.

I think I’m addicted and really hoping that was a mating thing and not aggression.

i would be shocked to see mating this fast. It looked like mating to me but just because it’s so soon I am thinking otherwise.

it’s also amazing how well these guys can hide despite the colors


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

BrianTL said:


> i would be shocked to see mating this fast. It looked like mating to me but just because it’s so soon I am thinking otherwise


I had a male sirensis "Rio Pachitea yellow" start calling on the drive home from when I bought my group... Ditto for Ranitomeya imitator... And then breeding behaviour in the days/weeks afterwards. 

I've never witnessed any aggression in my sirensis group tank. Have had multiple males calling from different parts of the tank to try to lure the females to them.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> I had a male sirensis "Rio Pachitea yellow" start calling on the drive home from when I bought my group... Ditto for Ranitomeya imitator... And then breeding behaviour in the days/weeks afterwards.
> 
> I've never witnessed any aggression in my sirensis group tank. Have had multiple males calling from different parts of the tank to try to lure the females to them.


wow. Super cool to see. I pretty much expected inactivity for a week or two

thanks for easing the mind on the aggression. You told me that before I think so I’m probably just way overthinking everything


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

I’ve been loving these guys - they seem to be settling in and I’m getting to see more and more of them each day it seems. I’ve seen them in almost every part of the viv, they definitely seem to be getting a feel for the place! 

so far, I’ve only been able to spot up to 3 at once. Even just now I found 3 in what seems to be their night spots.

I’ve been reading posts about frogs disappearing for weeks or a month before appearing again but I guess I’m just wondering when I should start to worry

my FF cultures seem to be running real slow, pretty sure its the ambient temp in the basement so I’ve moved them upstairs for the time being to a warmer room with more humidity.


2 in the brom and in the other pic you can catch the out of focus blue leg


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I routinely only ever see 4 of my group of 8, but when I've had to catch them all, they're all there.


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> I routinely only ever see 4 of my group of 8, but when I've had to catch them all, they're all there.


fair enough! Just one of those things that’d be reassuring to see all 4 at once, but that’s part of the game with thumbs I guess!


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## BrianTL (Sep 13, 2021)

fishingguy12345 said:


> The wood piece on the left.... You are going to LOVE IT ... it's almost undoubtedly going to be where a male _Ranitomeya sirensis_ (or other _Ranitomeya_) will sit to call for females (assuming that your sirensis act like my group)...


well, you called it…just saw this and had to get a pic remembering what you said. I backed away from the viv after I got the shots cause they do seem to be rather shy, figured I’d let him do his thing, and a minute or two later I heard a few calls.


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