# True Terrestrials for Forest Floor Terrariums



## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

*True Terrestrials for Forest Floor Terrariums*

This thread will explore plant selection possibilities for Forest Floor Terrariums, an apparently novel way to grow terrarium plants that uses a false bottom assembly with removable planters. Here is a quick picture to show how the assembly parts go together in a tank.










With more plants, natural features like stones of logs and a layer of leaf litter to cover the, the resulting display can have a convincing, natural look.










I am proposing this idea as a more or less new kind of system, or refinement of some existing methods, but it seems that it creates an effect more like the very traditional kind of terrarium that has media covering the bottom and with plants. 










The general kind of terrarium or vivarium that has become so popular with dart frog enthusiasts and other herp hobbyists in more recent years, on the other hand, has a more vertical orientation and tends to make use of epiphytic plants.

There are already some terrestrial groups of plants used frequently in vivariums, but it appears as though the Forest Floor Terrarium concept might be an appealing way to explore new potential selections. There are some really fantastic tropical plant groups which are primarily terrestrial and which have been used very little in terrariums. 

I intend to suggest a list of plant groups, then return to this thread with observations about each including sources, especially good species/varieties, biotope information and potential uses in terrariums. 

I'd like to start out with the following list of considerations that I think are important for selection for this proposed use:


Size - some plants will grow much too large to keep in a terrarium, while certain large-growing plants might be managed in various ways to control size. 
Compatibility with livestock
Growth habit - and use in visual design of terrarium
Selection as true tropical forest floor plants - as opposed to plants that grow as lithophytes, epiphytes or with other habitat associations.
Cultural requirements - and compatibility with terrarium conditions.
Biotope associations - plants or groups of plants characteristic of different regions and use in creating true biotope terrarium displays.

The next list includes the plant groups (grouped taxonimically or with other associations) that seem to be especially promising for use in Forest Floor Terrariums:


Palms (Family Araceae)
Aroids (Family Arecaceae)
Gingers (Family Zingiberaceae)
Trees - especially _Ficus, Clusea_ and other horticulturally-available plants.
Shrubs - certain tropical woody shrubs with appealing characteristics (e.g., Melosotamataceae)
Prayer Plants (Family Marantaceae)
Terrestrial orchids (e.g., _Paphiopedilum_)
Tropical flowering bulbs (e.g., _Griffinia, Hippeastrum_)
Ferns - (true terrestrials e.g., _Blechnum)_
_Begonia_ - more unusual, true species plants with upright growth habits


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Wow I just ran into a real cool article about ferns in Costa Rica I gotta link it here...

Species richness and distribution of ferns along an elevational gradient in Costa Rica

Look for the "Full Text" download and you can get the whole article for free.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This is another placeholder post...I just ran into this site that has several nice species begonias and not too costly...

http://shop.recyclededen.com/main.sc


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

While I don't want to derail another awesome thread of yours, might this be a good place to share experience/knowledge about so many of the terrestrials / forest floor plants that don't seem to make it into so many of the vivs.

I feel like so many tanks are dominated by epiphytes, begonias, gesnariads, etc, and a rather narrow set of aroids, it would be great to get some knowledge about these, and you [hydrophyte] seem to know a lot.

If you'd rather focus on this new forest floor design, by all means, just starving for some cool forest floor plants


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

winstonamc said:


> While I don't want to derail another awesome thread of yours, might this be a good place to share experience/knowledge about so many of the terrestrials / forest floor plants that don't seem to make it into so many of the vivs.
> 
> I feel like so many tanks are dominated by epiphytes, begonias, gesnariads, etc, and a rather narrow set of aroids, it would be great to get some knowledge about these, and you [hydrophyte] seem to know a lot.
> 
> If you'd rather focus on this new forest floor design, by all means, just starving for some cool forest floor plants


You're not derailing anything this is the Plants sub-forum after all. 

I really want to try out as many kinds of plants as possible, but so far the only group that I have made much headway with is the palms. 

Most palms of course become much too large to keep in a terrarium long-term, but there are a number of true dwarf palms that stay very small and/or will take a long time to reach full size.

There are a few other strategies that might also work with palms. There are a number of smaller-growing palms that grow with rhizomes or suckers. For these it might be possible to just cut out shoots as they grow too large, then let the smaller shoots grow up from beneath. You can also slow palms down by keeping them in smaller pots. 

There are few plants more elegant than palms. I think that the various mottled-leaf palms are especially beautiful and make really nice terrarium features. This one is _Pinanga_ sp. "Thai mottled".


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Well the beauty of those false bottom plates of yours is you can leave them in pots and remove and replace plants that outgrow the tank
I'm putting those beautiful mini palms in a mantis tank


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

You know what look really cool are plants with brown foliage in with the brown leaf litter. Look at these links...

Google: _Pinanga veritchii_

Google: _Anoectochilus _

Michael Lo's Photos | Facebook

I don't know if you'll be able to see that last one. It's from a Facebook album (not mine).


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

are any of those palms small enough to be in a larger viv without containing the roots?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

A lot of the dwarf palms might grow to 4' or 6' tall, but it would take them a while to get there.

Some, but not all, of the dwarf-growing palms also make good houseplants, so once they outgrow a viv they could be carefully reacclimated and grown in a pot. 

There are also a few true miniature palms to consider. I have _Licuala triphylla _going here and this one supposedly grows to only 12-16" tall. It has also has a more open growth habit so it might fit better with other stuff in the viv.

The smallest palm in the world might be _Dypsis minuta_--I have this one too!--and supposedly only grows to about 8" tall. If you do an image search you can see _D. minuta_ only a couple inches tall already flowering. Wow! _D. poirvreana_ is similar and grows to only about 18".

_Dypsis_ would be good for a Madagascar biotope for _Mantella_ or maybe also day geckos.

I guess that there are a couple of very small _Chamaedorea_ too, but I lost track of the names for those.

I can go dig up some more of that information and find more names...


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

hydrophyte said:


> Michael Lo's Photos | Facebook
> 
> I don't know if you'll be able to see that last one. It's from a Facebook album (not mine).


That last one is some sort of gesneriad; probably related to the genus Chirita (which just got broken down into a ton of separate genera). It most likely isn't even in cultivation yet, but it sure is hot!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I looked around some and there are other real handsome _Chirita_ and relatives with dark brown and other attractive dark hues. I gotta get some!

I think I read that they have clamped down and now it is difficult to legally export plants from Indonesia and Malaysia, so it might be difficult for many more plants like that to get into cultivation. I don't know about seeds for stuff like that(??).


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Violet Barn has 24 different _Chirita_. Most of them are hybrids...

https://www.violetbarn.com/store/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=25


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## JoshH (Feb 13, 2008)

Don't forget the family Melastomataceae, especially the genera Bertolonia and Clidemia...the family represents some of the greatest levels of botanical diversity on the forest floor, specifically in the neotropics...

Bertolonia sp Domingos Martins

Bertolonia sp cf ovata Santa Teresa


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Do you know specifically about any scientific references for those plants?

I think that Black Jungle has a _Bertolonia_ and Kartuz has a couple of them. Look!...they had that "Domingos Martin", but it sold out...

Kartuz Greenhouses: Bertolonia sp Domingos Martins

I did not know about diverse terrestrial melostomes. I remember there were a lot of them in Costa Rica, but the ones I saw were mainly epiphytes. This is a good idea to look for more of these. I think that low plants growing in the leaf litter look especially appealing if they have that kind of organized, geometric growth habit/shape like these plants and the _Chirita_ and dwarf palms.

I saw the _Bertolonia_ described as "absolutely do not chill" so I would probably wait till spring before trying to order.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I rounded up a few more names for small dwarf or true miniature palms among things that I found with research or that were suggested to me...


_Aiphanes bicornis_ - impossible to find(??)
_Chamaedorea pumila_
_C. metallica_ - easy to find and common houseplant. Grows tallish, but leaf spread only ~10"
_C. sullivaniorum_ - a lot of these _Chamaedorea_ are rare in colutivation and with scant information
_C. robertii_
_C. correae_
_C. simplex_
_C. palmeriana_
_C. guntheriana_
_C. amabilis_
_Reinhardtia koschnyana_ - probably impossible to find
_Pinanga aristata_
_Rhapis_ "super dwarf"


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

It just occurred to me that a small cycad could make a nice terrarium subject as a centerpiece with smaller plants around it.

This nursery offers several species described as growing to only 1-2' tall. 

Plants for sale - Jurassic Plants Nursery

They aren't cheap.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I just ran into a cool plant...

Google: _Carex plantaginea_

This would be nice for creating a grassy theme.

A lot of the sedges that you see in the trade are temperate plants, but in my experience they don't seem to have strong dormancy requirements. I have grown several different swamp-associated sedges year-round in ripariums with no trouble.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I finally got back to editing these images from the conservatory. I have a bout fifteen of them. 

This is a big imposing cyclanth that they have over there, _Chorigyne cylindrica_.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I had wondered about smaller-growing, true terrestrial bromeliads. _Cryptanthus_ spp. are common and easy to find, but I think most grow in very open, xeric habitats so they wouldn't go so well with this growing method.

I just ran into a small gnus of bromeliads mainly from Brazil that grow as forest terrestrials, _Quesnelia_. Some of them are pretty big and course, but there are a few smaller species.

Google: _Quesnelia_


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

this pandus is big but could probably be kept managably small in a large viv.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Where did you get that picture Steve? _Freycinetia_ is definitely on my want list. Some of the smaller ones probably would grow well in a viv and they should be easy as houseplants too just like _Pandanus_.

Look at this one. It has something like a shingling growth habit...

Freycinetia sp. (Litchi-like)

Wow!


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## skanderson (Aug 25, 2011)

picture was taken at the display garden of tropical gardens of maui. they sell online but dont list that species. i bet they would root and pot one up if you were to put an order together. they also have some nice palms. and the pic you put up is a very cool looking one as well.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Finally I got a good start on planting my 37G and here's a quick picture...










There are some pretty cool plants in there. I want t return with another post listing the species/varieties that I have.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

...finally got the leaf litter into there...










That Pinanga sp. "blue seed" is such an amazing plant...


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

what is that fern with the coppery leaves? it would looks great


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

That is a NOID fern that I got at the grocery store. I wish I knew what it was(???). If I can figure it out I might try to find a wholesale source because it is perfect for these setups. It grows really fast and it also has a nice upright growth habit. 

Does anybody out there have an opinion about what it might be?


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have been working on this more and I have some new observations. 

I have found that plants with more organized or geometric growth habits look especially good planted this way. I really like to use ferns and gingers.

I should get the camera out and get some new pictures.

I hope to get some more new plants to try, such as miniature tropical lilies, terrestrial orchids and gesneriads.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

hydrophyte said:


> That is a NOID fern that I got at the grocery store. I wish I knew what it was(???). If I can figure it out I might try to find a wholesale source because it is perfect for these setups. It grows really fast and it also has a nice upright growth habit.
> 
> Does anybody out there have an opinion about what it might be?


I'm fairly confident that it is really an Autumn fern that is usually found outdoors as it is quite hardy. Indoors it can get quite large...new fronds are that pretty coppery color which eventually turns green....a nice fern. Lowes does sell it in their indoor 'patio" area as well as outside generally is larger. It does love a terrarium, but definately give it some room.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have since figured out what that plant is. It's mahogeny fern (_Didymochlaena truncatula_). It's a common houseplant, but still one of my favorites for growing like this. It has a real nice orderly upright growth habit. It does grow pretty big, but you can control the size by pruning it back to slow it down. It develops a short trunk too, but you would probably have to let it grow up big to see that.


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

You are putting up some fantastic plant ideas. I am glad to see some branching out and more true plant enthusiasm. 

Has anyone tried much with _Streptocarpus_ species? I just took a couple cuttings of some different types that just arrived at our greenhouse. So far they are rooting quickly and may be applied as a nice filler for low pockets, then throwing showy flower shoots.


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## Zach Valois (Jun 7, 2012)

hydrophyte said:


> Where did you get that picture Steve? _Freycinetia_ is definitely on my want list. Some of the smaller ones probably would grow well in a viv and they should be easy as houseplants too just like _Pandanus_.
> 
> Look at this one. It has something like a shingling growth habit...
> 
> ...


 Wow is right! That is a wonderful plant!


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Zach Valois said:


> You are putting up some fantastic plant ideas. I am glad to see some branching out and more true plant enthusiasm.
> 
> Has anyone tried much with _Streptocarpus_ species? I just took a couple cuttings of some different types that just arrived at our greenhouse. So far they are rooting quickly and may be applied as a nice filler for low pockets, then throwing showy flower shoots.


I love plants. There really are a lot of different kinds of plants that haven't been used much in vivs that work well with this kind of planting and I want to keep acquiring and testing new ones. 

Yes I'm sure there are some _Streptocarpus_ and many other gesneriads that would work well for these setups. It looks as though some _Streptocarpus_ are pretty big. I have found that the best plants for Forest Floor setups are either pretty small (or can be controlled for size with pruning & underpotting) or have upright growth habits. Big, low rosettes aren't so good because they take up too much horizontal space and cover the nice leaf litter.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Zach Valois said:


> Wow is right! That is a wonderful plant!


Yeah it really is something.

I wish we could find more of these unusual Asian and Pacific plants here. They are hard to come by.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm getting ready to place another plant order and going through the Kartuz catalog again...just jotting down names.

_Begonia cubensis _
Kartuz Greenhouses: Begonia cubensis

_B. dominguensis_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Begonia domingensis

_B. egregia_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Begonia egregia

_B. jairii_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Begonia jairii

_Bertolonia_ sp. Domingos Martins
Kartuz Greenhouses: Bertolonia sp Domingos Martins

_Clusia guttiferae_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Clusia guttifera

_Ficus salicaria_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Ficus salicaria

_Chamaecostus cuspidatus_ 
Kartuz Greenhouses: Chamaecostus cuspidatus
_
Impatiens hians_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Impatiens hians

_I. irvingii_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Impatiens irvingii
_
Jacobinia chrysostephana _
Kartuz Greenhouses: Jacobinia chrysostephana


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Continued...

_Sanchezia parvibracteata _
Kartuz Greenhouses: Sanchezia parvibracteata

_Sanchezia speciosa_
Kartuz Greenhouses: Sanchezia speciosa

_Tristellateia australasiae _
Kartuz Greenhouses: Tristellateia australasiae


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I have some interesting plant observations and got new pictures tonight. I just need to process them and post them up.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

hydrophyte said:


> I have some interesting plant observations and got new pictures tonight. I just need to process them and post them up.


Yes please


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

I haven't tried it in a display viv yet, but I am observing excellent growth from this NOID _Nepenthes_ that I have in humid growout. It is really happy in there. 



All of the bright green foliage is new.

This is such a distinctive plant that for a viv I think it would be best with some kind of biotope representation. I don't know what kind of livestock could be good to keep with a _Nepenthes_(???).


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here are a few more!

This is a white-variegated ginger that stays pretty short.



_Vanilla_...this vine cutting started to grow roots right away, but I still don't see any new buds on it yet. I think that _Vanilla_ has to grow pretty big before it starts to bloom. I probably won't see any blooms on it, but it is a cool plant.



This might be a Lauraceae (avacado family) small tree. It is a pretty average looking tropical tree foliage, but with purple reverse. It took a long time for this one to start to root in a peat flexiplug.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Here are most of the rest of the pictures that I got. 

Here's another NOID ginger. This is an another dwarf ginger and the mature canes were only about 9" tall.



The cycad _Zamia furfuracea_...



...and this one is _Z. integrifolia_, the common "Florida coontie" cycad.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

That Nepenthes looks like it was grown iin stagnant conditions under really bright light for a long time. Note the bacterial damage and pitting to the leaves, plus the reddish color. Give them good ventilation, and watch it explode. Hope you have a BIG viv, otherwise grow it in a bright windowsill on a humidity tray


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

frogparty said:


> That Nepenthes looks like it was grown iin stagnant conditions under really bright light for a long time. Note the bacterial damage and pitting to the leaves, plus the reddish color. Give them good ventilation, and watch it explode. Hope you have a BIG viv, otherwise grow it in a bright windowsill on a humidity tray


Yep like I mentioned the green foliage is all new. This is a rescue plant that was half-neglected in a greenhouse before I got it. It is growing real fast in the growout setup where I have it with a CPU fan and high humidity. I want to try to keep it small and terrarium size with pruning--I don't have room for any more houseplants around here. I am guessing that it will respond well to pruning, but I don't know if I will see much pitcher development.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

This _Nepenthes_ (still NOID!) is a relatively small grower and looks like it could be a good terrarium plant. I just ran into this description of _Nepenthes_ propagation via stem cuttings...

International Carnivorous Plant Society

...sounds like it's not too difficult.


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Quick bookmark...

IAS: Amorphophallus obscurus


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## hydrophyte (Jun 5, 2009)

Quick placeholder for DavesGarden.com article about small ferns...

Dwarf Ferns for Limited Space


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