# Sipaliwini Savannah?



## QRICH

Can anyone help me ID this frog that I own? I was told by the breeder that it was a very rare frog to own. Any help would be greatly appriciated.


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## aliciaface

It looks a LOT like my cobalt tincs, but that is not to say that it is. These are fairly common and you can usually find them from a fellow forum member.

Ive only been in the hobby for about a year, but he looks spot on to my 3 at home. a quick google search or look at the frogs by species section on the board should help you out.

Someone with more experience will chime in.


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## aliciaface

ps Sipaliwini savannah is a geographic location in Surinam, Brazil, though there are Blue Sipaliwini frogs, that are also Tincs.


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## QRICH

It is a geographic location but also the name of the morph I believe. Just like Koetari river morph. Or the morph named after a woman who brought back the Patricia morph in 99. I am no expert that's why I am asking. I appreciate the insite though. Glad to have fellow froggers.


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## aliciaface

I have heard of Sip frogs, but to my knowledge Sip Savannah is not a frog, just the location. Blue sipaliwini, Green sipaliwini, and Yellow sipaliwini are ones that I have seen. Great looking frogs.

Poison Dart frog on a CoCohut - CAPhoto's Photos | SmugMug

^Cobalt


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## Woodsman

Suriname Cobalt colormorph of Dendrobates tinctorius. I think the person who sold it to you meant that there are not many people who keep poison dart frogs, not that it is a rare form of a dart frog.

Good luck with him/her, Richard.


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## Justin Bailey

The sip savanah is an actual morph, and a picture can be found on sean stewert's site. This frog looks to be a suriname cobalt to me, which have recently flooded the market with recent imports.


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## QRICH

Frogs main

On sean's Stewarts webpage ^^ it looks exactly like the sip savannah line. Not enough yellow in it to be a cobalt. The guy who sold it to me seemed pretty convincing that it was a sip savannah. I am hoping it is but thus far for everyone's input I am leaning towards cobalt.


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## Baltimore Bryan

QRICH said:


> Frogs main
> 
> On sean's Stewarts webpage ^^ it looks exactly like the sip savannah line. Not enough yellow in it to be a cobalt. The guy who sold it to me seemed pretty convincing that it was a sip savannah. I am hoping it is but thus far for everyone's input I am leaning towards cobalt.


There are such things as true sips, but they are very rare and only a handful around. I think the last froglets went for like $400 each. That is way more like a cobalt, and the amount of yellow can vary as well as how bright it is due to several factors. Cobalt tincs are from the sipaliwini area, but are not rare in the hobby at all. Still "rare" in perspective I suppose just since dart frogs are not kept as commonly as many other herps.
Bryan


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## Tony

It is most likely a Cobalt from the recent imports, which were collected in the Sipaliwini area (a very large region with many different tinc morphs). Definitely not a True Sip, if anyone let go of adults they would be a very pricey frog, not something readily available to a casual buyer.


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## QRICH

I bought this from the Clyde peelings if this means anything. I bought it as a froglet.


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## QRICH

Also I payed a good chunk of change for this frog and another one just like it. Unfortunately one died and this is the only one left. I am hoping I didn't get ripped off. This frog is a true show piece in my house.


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## Baltimore Bryan

QRICH said:


> Also I payed a good chunk of change for this frog and another one just like it. Unfortunately one died and this is the only one left. I am hoping I didn't get ripped off. This frog is a true show piece in my house.


I've seen tincs such as cobalts and azureus go for around $80-110 at pet stores, but from hobbyists/ breeders you can usually find them for about $30-40. 
I don't think you got "ripped-off" because it wasn't sold as a true sip, just from the sipaliwini area, correct? 
Either way, tinctorius are great frogs and I'm sure you will continue to enjoy him/her.
Good luck,
Bryan


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## QRICH

No the guy told me it was a true sip. I sure payed the price for the pair. If you must know I dropped 350 per frog. I have many other darts but these two were supposed to be the prize of my collection of all my animals I own. Thanks for all the input Bryan. But maybe know you see why I am wondering if this one is a true sip?  kicking myself in the ass right about now.


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## Philsuma

QRICH said:


> No the guy told me it was a true sip. I sure payed the price for the pair. If you must know I dropped 350 per frog. I have many other darts but these two were supposed to be the prize of my collection of all my animals I own. Thanks for all the input Bryan. But maybe know you see why I am wondering if this one is a true sip?  kicking myself in the ass right about now.


You paid $700.00 for 2 froglets from "Clyde peelings Reptileland" in Pennsylvania ?

Do you know the name of the"breeder" ? Is he a member of a Dart Frog forum ?


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## QRICH

Breeder is a guy by the name of Adam Richmond and claims he works/close relation to Clyde. He claims he supplies Clyde as well as other reptile facilities. His big claim is his sales to the exhibit chorus of colors. I don't believe Adam is a member of this forum.


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## Ed

QRICH said:


> Breeder is a guy by the name of Adam Richmond and claims he works/close relation to Clyde. He claims he supplies Clyde as well as other reptile facilities. His big claim is his sales to the exhibit chorus of colors. I don't believe Adam is a member of this forum.


If you purchased them from Adam, then you didn't get them from Clyde Peeling's Reptile Land... If you had you would have been provided with paperwork in accordance with the AZA's requirements to tranfer animals to the public (and AZA has issues with money changing hands). Now it may be true that the person works for or with Reptile Land, but the frogs aren't being sold by Reptile Land.. If you don't believe me contact Reptile Land and ask them directly. 

As noted above the Sipaliwini Savannah is a large area and has a number of different populations that show differences in coloration and patterning ranging from azureus to sipaliwini to the various cobalts and other forms.. 

Any reason in particular that you aren't asking the person where you got them, the actual "morph"?

Ed


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## Paul G

Looks like a really nice Cobalt to me. (maybe not $350/ea. nice)

I found some decent pics of some Sipaliwini Savannah/True sips a year or so back while surfing the net only to find that the pics belong to a member on here. (cannot remember the name for the life of me. Frogger on the west coast) 
I was told the frogs in the pics were of offspring directly from Sean Stewart's Sipaliwini Savannah tincs.


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## QRICH

Thanks for that info Ed. I had no idea they would have papers on them. I did ask him and he is claiming it's a true and rare sip. I saw the pair he has and they looked almost exact to that of thE one on Stewarts page. I posted the link to that page earlier. I thought I would get many opinions on here cause now that she is over a year old I have a few doubts, but also can see the similarities as well to a true sip. As far as getting a hold of Adam I have not been able to. I am hoping that by tomorrow I can get clarification from him. Thanks to everyone on here for all the info and help. I am keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Woodsman

Hi Qrich,

If you knew that they were sold to you as True Sips, why didn't you post that in your introduction to this topic? True Sips were apparantly collected within the Sipaliwini Savannah during an Azureus-collecting trip. They have precise locality data.

If they are not these frogs, they have NO locality data. This is trus of essentially all other D. tinctorius color morphs that have been imported from South America. People can have frogs that look very much like "True" Sips, but (without the provenance that indicates a known locality) all we can really call them is a "Cobalt" (which is a catch basin for many different frogs that have similar appearances).

It would have been better to explain what you already knew before asking advice.

Richard.



QRICH said:


> Thanks for that info Ed. I had no idea they would have papers on them. I did ask him and he is claiming it's a true and rare sip. I saw the pair he has and they looked almost exact to that of thE one on Stewarts page. I posted the link to that page earlier. I thought I would get many opinions on here cause now that she is over a year old I have a few doubts, but also can see the similarities as well to a true sip. As far as getting a hold of Adam I have not been able to. I am hoping that by tomorrow I can get clarification from him. Thanks to everyone on here for all the info and help. I am keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Julio

here are what true sips look like
notice the small yellow crest and the large amount of blue on the rest of the body


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## Manuran

Here are a few more pics of True Sipaliwini to refer to.
These are F1's from that single pair that was collected so many years ago.


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## Woodsman

Thanks, Chuck. It seems like the best description of this frog is that it is an Azureus with a bit of a yellow crest (not at all like a Cobalt with some body reticulation).

Richard.


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## JeremyHuff

Manuran said:


> Here are a few more pics of True Sipaliwini to refer to.
> These are F1's from that single pair that was collected so many years ago.


Chuck
Do you only have males as well. I know Julio and Bill Finley have only males. Seem Sean Stewart is the only one with female(s).


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## QRICH

Hey thanks all for all the help. Mine def does not look like those. I spoke with the breeder today and well lets just say we are gonna work something out hopefully. All of you have been very helpful. You all have given me more than enough info to make a conclusion to my question of suspicion as to whether or not my Tinc was a True Sip. Thanks Again.


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## KeroKero

I have to agree with Julio and Chuck with this one - having worked with Sean's frogs and having seen the offspring there is no way those are True Sips. They don't even come out of the water looking like bright yellow cobalts, they sorta have the pattern but are this muted bluish coloration similar to azureus coming out of the water.

For the record - A number of the cobalts being imported from Suriname recently have been sold and marketed as being from the Sip Savannah. I've seen a number of these on Kingsnake as such - and they look just like that frog. It's very likely that these were offspring from some of the new animals imported and they were a pretty penny at the time.


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## Dartfrogfreak

Actually I wouldve described Chuck's individuals as New River with yellow crests LOL



Chuck those are some awesome shots!




Todd


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