# Best Homemade FF Media



## Paleofish

Well right now I am not able to buy some premade mixes over the internet, so I was wondering what is the best homemade recipe to make?


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## GRIMM

I use a recipe I found on a website called "someones"frogroom...Cant remember the name right now, but he had plenty of experience and good things to say about his method. Ive tried it out, and it is super easy, cheap, and only smells like orange juice.

1 cup oats
1/3 cup potatoe flakes
1 tsp of sugar
a pinch of bakers yeast

Mix the ingredients. (I choose to throw them in my magic bullet for a few seconds)

Then add enough orange juice to ensure the majority of the mixture is moist, however you still want there to be a little dry ingredient left at the bottom of the culture. The culture beomes more liquid over time so it will eventually become soggy just like the rest of it. 

Let sit overnight, then add a folded up paper towel, and some flies. Presto


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## Julio

well, ibeen using this formula with a great success. 

6 cups of potato flakes
2 cups of brewers yeast
1 cup of powder sugar
2 table spoons of cinamon

1 tea spoon of methyl paraben, only used with hydei cultures.


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## GRIMM

Julio said:


> well, ibeen using this formula with a great success.
> 
> 6 cups of potato flakes
> 2 cups of brewers yeast
> 1 cup of powder sugar
> 2 table spoons of cinamon
> 
> 1 tea spoon of methyl paraben, only used with hydei cultures.


Julio, that seems like a nice easy ingredients list also. How many cultures would you use this for? 6-8? And do you just use water in the similar fashion as I stated with the orange juice?


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## Tony

Julio said:


> well, ibeen using this formula with a great success.
> 
> 6 cups of potato flakes
> 2 cups of brewers yeast
> 1 cup of powder sugar
> 2 table spoons of cinamon
> 
> 1 tea spoon of methyl paraben, only used with hydei cultures.


I use this formula, except that I mix it with 50/50 vinegar and water instead of using methyl paraben.


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## Jason

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/33846-hydei-media-mix-ideas-needed.html


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## Julio

GRIMM said:


> Julio, that seems like a nice easy ingredients list also. How many cultures would you use this for? 6-8? And do you just use water in the similar fashion as I stated with the orange juice?


that makes about a 1 gallon bag and i can usually make 25-30 cultures out of that.


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## Mikembo

Before my collection got big I used:

1 cup white sugar
2 cups powdered/instant milk 
4 cups instant mashed potatoes
2 table spoons of cinnamon 

For melos I used 1/2 cup media, 1/4 cup water, 1/4 cup vinegar. Never had great success with hydei using this media...... Works great because you can get everything at your local grocery store! 

-Mike-


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## TDK

1 tea spoon of methyl paraben, only used with hydei cultures.[/QUOTE]

Why only with Hydei??


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## bobzarry

Do you guys find the cinnamon helps with the smell?


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## Tony

bobzarry said:


> Do you guys find the cinnamon helps with the smell?


Yes, and it helps to prevent mold.


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## bobzarry

I am going to have to try this next time I make cultures... I just made a bunch yesterday.


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## MichelleSG

I use the one listed on UE, mainly because I don't like to use anything I have to order on line. I don't like the vinegar smell though so I do use methyl paraben but I've made it without the methyl paraben and have had no mold problems. The measurements are eye balling, not specific at all.

1/2 banana per culture
Applesauce (a cup or 2 depending on how much you want to make)
Potato flakes, add to desired consistency basically until it's not runny
1/2tbs of methyl paraben for each culture made
1 tbs of yeast per culture made, I use bakers yeast because it doesn't smell and you can get it in bulk cheap at Costco
Let the mix sit for 24 hours before adding flies so the CO2 made by the yeast will escape
Sprinkle some yeast on the top of the culture for adult flies to eat before putting in excelsior/coffee filter.

I like this recipe because it call for fruit and not just freeze dried or powdered everything. This is under the assumption there's some benefit to feeding fruit flies fresh fruit. Novel huh? I hear adding powdered milk can help production too so I add a tablespoon per culture. I never figured out if there's any benefit from it but I now have a big box of it so in it goes.


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## xshortstufx

Tony said:


> I use this formula, except that I mix it with 50/50 vinegar and water instead of using methyl paraben.



That's the exact same thing I use.


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## james67

MichelleSG said:


> 1 tbs of yeast per culture made, I use bakers yeast because it doesn't smell and you can get it in bulk cheap at Costco


you really need brewers yeast in the mix. just because theyre both east doesnt mean that they serve the same purpose. if anything, its the bakers yeast that you can go without since the flies carry it with them into new cultures. the brewers is an essential part of the FF mixture. i didnt want to spend the money for it at first, but when you see the difference between those made with and without, theres no going back.

james


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## aliciaface

Ive been using the recipe that Marty posted a while back, I found it in a sticky on culturing and Ive had GREAT results (even being a noob myself...) my cultures have just taken off and its very easy to mix a big batch of media up (i keep it in a cereal storage container with a flip top) and have it ready to just scoop and add the liquid ingredients in.

I also HIGHLY recommend making up some "Overflow" containers, very very useful when you are up to your eyeballs in flies haha

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/18630-fruit-fly-culturing-mini-howto.html

and here was an excellent breakdown of how much of each ingredient to mix

Basic ratios:
8 parts potato flakes
1 part sugar
1 part brewers yeast (i found this at Whole Foods, any store with a bulk foods section will probably carry it)

With that recipe I use 8 cups potato flakes, 1 cup sugar and 1 cup brewers yeast (shake/stir WELL) and again gallon zip loc bags or a big tupperware like the ones for cereal are awesome.

When you go to actually make your cultures, measure 1/3 cup media into a fruitfly cup, add 1/4 cup water, 1/4 cup vinegar and swirl it, a pinch of the bakers yeast on top, add excelsior or coffee filters and like 50-75 flies


I can imagine cinnamon would be a pleasant substitution to the vinegar, do you adjust your other ingredients to account for less liquid being added in? I have about 10-15+ cultures going right now but the smell isn't terrible, maybe it is worse in larger quantities... All of my tanks/supplies are set up in the family room and Ive yet to hear a complaint from the roommates..


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## MichelleSG

james67 said:


> you really need brewers yeast in the mix. just because theyre both east doesnt mean that they serve the same purpose. if anything, its the bakers yeast that you can go without since the flies carry it with them into new cultures. the brewers is an essential part of the FF mixture. i didnt want to spend the money for it at first, but when you see the difference between those made with and without, theres no going back.
> 
> james


It's not a money issue, it's a smell issue. I can't deal with some smells and brewers yeast in cultures is one of them. I can deal with nutritional yeast but it's a pain to get to the one store that sells it here. As it is I throw away more flies than I use and I supply other froggers with flies too. I don't need to up production any!


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## frogface

MichelleSG said:


> It's not a money issue, it's a smell issue. I can't deal with some smells and brewers yeast in cultures is one of them. I can deal with nutritional yeast but it's a pain to get to the one store that sells it here. As it is I throw away more flies than I use and I supply other froggers with flies too. I don't need to up production any!


Is that what that smell was???

I got some cultures recently from a sponsor, as my own were getting thin. The cultures were great, but, the smell was so bad that I was heaving in my frog room. I had to put as many flies as I could into new cultures and throw the sponsor's cultures away. 

Don't ever want to smell that again


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## Ed

frogface said:


> Is that what that smell was???
> 
> I got some cultures recently from a sponsor, as my own were getting thin. The cultures were great, but, the smell was so bad that I was heaving in my frog room. I had to put as many flies as I could into new cultures and throw the sponsor's cultures away.
> 
> Don't ever want to smell that again


if you get other microbials growing in your cultures, they can make them smell bad. The degredation of the protien in the media (yeast, or soy or milk, it doesn't really matter) are what causes the foul smells. Try adding more active yeast before you add the flies as this helps keep down the competition by the other microbes and will help with the smell. 

I should also note, that hydei cultures often smell worse than melanogaster cultures. 

Ed


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## billschwinn

I have a question. What if any would be the effect of using 1 cup of media in the 32 oz cups we all use , for melanos? The only flies I get good production out of are the Gliders, which I hate because they get out and get everywhere.


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## ChrisK

billschwinn said:


> I have a question. What if any would be the effect of using 1 cup of media in the 32 oz cups we all use , for melanos? The only flies I get good production out of are the Gliders, which I hate because they get out and get everywhere.


Definitely a love/hate relationship with the gliders, they produce at least twice as much as the melanos but I need to put banana smeared on a piece of leaf litter in each tank when I feed them out to try to keep them in as well as banana in cups on the floor around the tanks - and they STILL are all over the place


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## billschwinn

So I have had people tell me about their incredible melano production and on a few occasions I have received cultures that had these numbers and I get them and on a good hatch maybe get a teaspoon of flies. On gliders the good hatch is at least2 plus tablespoons, massive amounts, but then I get 1 more decent hatch and they are pretty much done. The melanos will go on after the first hatch to produce, but even smaller numbers with each hatch. And the medium is not drying out.So my question is, am I stuck with inhaling gliders forever or am I missing something with the melanos, I really am tired of inhaling, drinking, and probably eating gliders, I even think I am developing the Tinc Twitch, Bill


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## Dancing frogs

If you have time to fold coffee filters, I always got much better production when using that method. What I did was accordian fold a coffee filter 1/4" pleats, fold it at about 1/3 of the length (to make it about the same height as the culture container), stick it into the media, and repeat, till there are enough filters in there that they will not collapse (20-30 IIRC).
After finishing this process, I popped the cultures in the microwave, because the culture was open so long, chances of contamination are great.
I belive I remember getting at least 1/8 cup of flies per shake with this method.
I'm considering going back...I switched to excelsior due to the time involved, but I'm pretty sure I could get by with less cultures with the filter method.
For Hydei, I'd probably stick with excelsior though...the coffee filters seemed to disintegrate with them.


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## billschwinn

I use filters and have used excelsior. I saw no difference.


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## Dancing frogs

Did you do folds? I think that is key to the success I saw. More surface area, and they dont collapse with the accordian folds.


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## guppygal

I use the basic potato flakes\powdered sugar\brewers yeast mix, adding 50/50 water/vinegar. I use a different container, though. I recycle my water bottles, using a third cup each of dry and liquid. I prefer the broader excelsior - the larva are able to pupate a little better on it. I also use black pantyhose to cover my bottles - I can see if I have a mite problem fairly quickly. One more thing I've learned over the years is that placing my cultures on baker's racks helps keep the mites from spreading.

Here's a pix of a hydei culture prepped 8/29 (right) and a mel culture prepped 09/06 (left).


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## SmackoftheGods

I've always had great success with my melanogaster cultures using the following recipe:

Blend the following:

8-10 overripe bananas
(I always blend a large carrot and some vitamin A and D3 supplements into the media but this is not necessary for large production)
1 cup of water

Put the above into a pot and add:

2 cups water 
3 cups apple cider vinegar 
1/4th cup Dark molasses 
1 can of grape juice concentrate 
1 tbsp honey
1 tbsp vanilla 

Bring the above mixture to a rolling boil for five minutes.

After bringing this mixture to a boil, add the dry material 

1 cup malt of meal 
1 1/3 cup potato flakes 
2/3 cup Brewers Yeast (the key ingredient)

It stinks like hell for an hour while boiling on that vinegar, but the production (for me) is totally worth it. I usually add a cup and a half or two cup of media per culture (way more than most people do) and this usually makes 8-10 cultures. If you were to reduce the amount of media (I know some people who only use a half inch of media) you could probably make 20+ cultures and freeze those that you don't use right away.... Also, I use the coffee filter method, I find this produces more than excelsior as has been mentioned. 




billschwinn said:


> So I have had people tell me about their incredible melano production and on a few occasions I have received cultures that had these numbers and I get them and on a good hatch maybe get a teaspoon of flies. On gliders the good hatch is at least2 plus tablespoons, massive amounts, but then I get 1 more decent hatch and they are pretty much done. The melanos will go on after the first hatch to produce, but even smaller numbers with each hatch. And the medium is not drying out.So my question is, am I stuck with inhaling gliders forever or am I missing something with the melanos, I really am tired of inhaling, drinking, and probably eating gliders, I even think I am developing the Tinc Twitch, Bill


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## billschwinn

I do the folding technique. Guppygal I like your artistic flair on your cultures


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## Paul G

guppygal said:


> I use the basic potato flakes\powdered sugar\brewers yeast mix, adding 50/50 water/vinegar.


I use this mix as well too but lately have been getting crap production for over a month. 
I'm only culturing wingless melanos right now.
The only factor I can think of is I have been trying to be kind of cheap and use less excelsior per culture.
My yields were much higher when I used Josh's Frogs media opposed to my own.

I also didn't see much of a difference when using cofffee filters vs excelsior. (except like Brian said about the coffee filters not lasting when I used to have hydei)


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## pilo0024

Tony said:


> I use this formula, except that I mix it with 50/50 vinegar and water instead of using methyl paraben.


I use this mix as well and avoid the methyl paraben because it is a synthetic estrogen.
I also add spirulina powder because Ed does and he's pretty much my frog hero.


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## TDK

I was using coffee filters but they kept dissolving into the medium and I've used excelsior, which always leaves a mess somewhere (everywhere). Lately I've been using the plastic shopping bags from the grocery store. I cut the 2 corners out about the length of the container I'm using and split what's left, so I end up with 4 pieces for 4 containers, and stick into the medium. This has worked well and is the cleanest way I've found so far.

I use 4 cups of potato flakes, 1/4 cup of brewer’s yeast, 1/2 cup powdered sugar, 2 teaspoons of methyparaben 2 teaspoons of cinnamon. I put 1/4 cup of mix, 1/2 cup+ of water and a little baker’s yeast.

I've seen so many different quantities of baker's yeast--is there any correct amount?


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## ravengritz

I use one of the standard mixes:

3C powdered sugar
1/4C methyl paraben
24C potato flakes
2C brewers yeast

Mix up and keep dry. When ready to use mix 50/50 with hot water, sprinkle with bakers yeast and spritz with water (one spray does it).

I've had great luck with this mix, nice steady production. I've also been spraying my culture lids (coffee filters) with reptile mite treatment and allowing them to dry before using. Since I started this I haven't had any problems with the little buggers.
Best of luck,
Melissa


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## Ed

TDK said:


> I've seen so many different quantities of baker's yeast--is there any correct amount?


Yes, but I would have to go digging to locate it. Protein is one of the main nutrients limiting growth and production in a fruit fly culture. The brewer's yeast/nutritional yeast or soy or dried milk all provide a higher level of protien which then allows for greater population and growth levels. However if you add too much protien you can not only change the microbial growth and waste products (ammonia..) but the nutritional requirements of the flies for other nutrients. Either or both of these will significantly affect your production levels. (for those interested you can start with this paper from 1956..http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/33/1/45.pdf). 

If I remember correctly the basic Carolina mixes are probably pretty close. 

With respect to adding vitamin A and D3, to the media, the flies do not uptake D3 (and this doesn't even take into consideration that the microbes in the media will be digesting it..) and the only A found in the flies is located in the eye of the fly and is synthesized from carotenoids. The flies will uptake tocopherols.. but not normally A or D3. 

Ed


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## earthfrog

My recipe keeps changing--but I have been using the same set of Melanogasters for two years now and have not 'lost' a culture since, nor had problems with mite infestation or mold before 2 weeks into the culture life. 

Now I am trying:

2 cups purified water
1/8 cup organic molasses
1 cup applesauce
1/2 cup apple cider vinegar
2 bananas
instant potato flakes
Baker's yeast
spirulina powder

Bring to a boil, stirring constantly, for 2 minutes. 

Add potato flakes 1/4 cup at a time until it is no longer 'soupy', but 'pasty'

Blend well with whisk---separate into cups with four spoonfuls in each, allow to cool to 90 degrees. 
Sprinkle a coating of baker's yeast on top just to cover the media (about 1 TBS), and add 1 tsp spirulina powder. Stir into the media a bit. Allow some to spill down the sides of the cup, which will encourage the sides not to exude too much extra water and drown flies/larvae.
Add a tuft of excelsior, pressing it into the media a bit, but keeping it away from the sides of the cup if possible. It should not be more than what will reach halfway up the cup.

Cover and place in freezer for up to one month before use.


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## Rain_Frog

Before I got lazy and decided to buy fruit fly media, I used whole wheat flour instead of potato flakes. I'm surprised nobody uses flour? Even if I add too much liquid to fly cultures, I will add flour to thicken it.


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## TDK

Rain_Frog said:


> Before I got lazy and decided to buy fruit fly media, I used whole wheat flour instead of potato flakes. I'm surprised nobody uses flour? Even if I add too much liquid to fly cultures, I will add flour to thicken it.


Afterwards bake at 350 degrees for 20 minutes and you'll have some beautiful biscuits. Honestly that's the first I heard of using flour.


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## Ed

Rain_Frog said:


> Before I got lazy and decided to buy fruit fly media, I used whole wheat flour instead of potato flakes. I'm surprised nobody uses flour? Even if I add too much liquid to fly cultures, I will add flour to thicken it.


If you check back in the frognet archives, there are some comments I made about trying flour a number of years ago. In the long run, I didn't like it as it was too conducive to mite outbreaks, didn't produce as well for me, and were harder to clean out once the cultures were done.. 

Ed


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## fleshfrombone

I've used Julio's mix minus the brewers yeast since I can't seem to find a local supplier. Maybe super supplements sells it. Instead I tried using red star bakers yeast and my cultures are pretty lame (I assume this is due to the lack of brewers yeast). I also tried upping the amount of cinnamon and using water only but I got really bad mold as a result so I still use 50/50 water and vinegar. The cinnamon does help with the smell however. Have any of you guys tried using whey protein? I have a ton of that stuff laying around from my body building/power lifting days. If it's a protein issue I would imagine this stuff would yield tons of flies.


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## Julio

Ryan,
I usually just order mine from Josh's frogs, if i were to buy locally it would be way more for much less even after shipping cost.


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## Ed

Yes you can use whey protiens to supply the protien needs for the flies (if you read through the paper I linked to above, you will see that they used casein in thier studies which is a protien mix derived from milk (as a simplistic explination). You will have to fiddle with the ratios a little to see what works best but I wouldn't start with a protien content higher than 5% as protein levels above that are known to reduce production. Also about 5% total protein is about what is needed to maximize production (but one should also include the protien already included in the media). 

I can't speak for how it will make your cultures smell...

If I understand you correctly you added more live yeast to the culture. This isn't really going to increase your protien levels in the same way as a prekilled yeast. The live yeast will compete for oxygen with the flies and this can reduce production/larval development. Some live yeast should be added as this helps prevent other microbes from colonizing the media and helps stimulate egg production. 

Ed


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## Tony

fleshfrombone said:


> I've used Julio's mix minus the brewers yeast since I can't seem to find a local supplier. Maybe super supplements sells it. Instead I tried using red star bakers yeast and my cultures are pretty lame (I assume this is due to the lack of brewers yeast). I also tried upping the amount of cinnamon and using water only but I got really bad mold as a result so I still use 50/50 water and vinegar. The cinnamon does help with the smell however. Have any of you guys tried using whey protein? I have a ton of that stuff laying around from my body building/power lifting days. If it's a protein issue I would imagine this stuff would yield tons of flies.


I just added a couple scoops into my latest batch, I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Ed

Hi Tony,

If it was enough to bump your total protein over 5%, it may reduce your production. If that is the case, scaling it down to the correct proportion may give you a better production rate. 

Ed


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## Rain_Frog

anyone used potato flour or starch instead potato flakes?


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## Tony

Ed said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> If it was enough to bump your total protein over 5%, it may reduce your production. If that is the case, scaling it down to the correct proportion may give you a better production rate.
> 
> Ed


Thanks for the tip Ed. I didn't have quite enough brewer's yeast, so I added the whey protein to make up the difference, I don't think it will boost the levels too high.


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## fleshfrombone

Julio said:


> Ryan,
> I usually just order mine from Josh's frogs, if i were to buy locally it would be way more for much less even after shipping cost.


Right on I'll order some here in the near future then. I really need to get the yields up. Thanks Julio!



Ed said:


> Yes you can use whey protiens to supply the protien needs for the flies (if you read through the paper I linked to above, you will see that they used casein in thier studies which is a protien mix derived from milk (as a simplistic explination). You will have to fiddle with the ratios a little to see what works best but I wouldn't start with a protien content higher than 5% as protein levels above that are known to reduce production. Also about 5% total protein is about what is needed to maximize production (but one should also include the protien already included in the media).
> 
> I can't speak for how it will make your cultures smell...
> 
> If I understand you correctly you added more live yeast to the culture. This isn't really going to increase your protien levels in the same way as a prekilled yeast. The live yeast will compete for oxygen with the flies and this can reduce production/larval development. Some live yeast should be added as this helps prevent other microbes from colonizing the media and helps stimulate egg production.
> 
> Ed


How can I account for the percentages of protein content vs say carbohydrates or sugars etc.? I could be wrong but I don't think potato flakes and sugar have much, if any, protein value. Yes the live yeast was substituted for brewer's at the same ratio as Julio's recipe (maybe a little less). Is there a way for me to kill it and use it in the same way as brewer's? I guess what I'm asking is, is brewer's yeast just dead baker's yeast? I have noticed what seems to be greater pressure inside the cultures, though not much since I generally use porous weed blocker material for the lids. So just to be clear it's ok to use the whey as long as the total protein content doesn't exceed 5% of the total mixture?



Tony said:


> I just added a couple scoops into my latest batch, I'll let you know how it goes.


Sweet Tony, please do.


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## Ed

fleshfrombone said:


> How can I account for the percentages of protein content vs say carbohydrates or sugars etc.? I could be wrong but I don't think potato flakes and sugar have much, if any, protein value. Yes the live yeast was substituted for brewer's at the same ratio as Julio's recipe (maybe a little less). Is there a way for me to kill it and use it in the same way as brewer's? I guess what I'm asking is, is brewer's yeast just dead baker's yeast? I have noticed what seems to be greater pressure inside the cultures, though not much since I generally use porous weed blocker material for the lids. So just to be clear it's ok to use the whey as long as the total protein content doesn't exceed 5% of the total mixture?


Potatos have more protein than one may expect. As a wet material (baked potato) has about 40 grams of protien/ kg potato while dry materials can run between 4-8.7% protien per kg potato flakes (variation is dependent on cultivar used in making the flakes). 

Inactivated brewer's yeast is actually a different strain of yeast so there are some differences in the nutritional quality. 

The whey should be fine to use (as casein was used in the early studies (as referenced in the above citation)). The paper suggested not exceeding 5% protein in the media as reduced growth was observed. I noted it to Tony so a decline in production wouldn't be translated as automatically meaning whey being bad to use in a culture as the amount of protein matters to the production levels.. This means that the amount of whey used also cannot be translated across to other media mixes as they use other ingredients with different levels. 

Ed


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## fleshfrombone

Interesting, I didn't know that. I always labeled potatoes as a starchy carbohydrate food. What about sweet potatoes?


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## Ed

fleshfrombone said:


> Interesting, I didn't know that. I always labeled potatoes as a starchy carbohydrate food. What about sweet potatoes?


As a regular baked sweet potato with nothing else added about 2%. 

Ed


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## christina hanson

fleshfrombone said:


> Interesting, I didn't know that. I always labeled potatoes as a starchy carbohydrate food. What about sweet potatoes?


Ryan,

I use the large flake nutritional yeast from Central Market (they have one in Poulsbo) and it works great. I don't like the really fine stuff because it makes me cough and sneeze.

Christina


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## fleshfrombone

christina hanson said:


> Ryan,
> 
> I use the large flake nutritional yeast from Central Market (they have one in Poulsbo) and it works great. I don't like the really fine stuff because it makes me cough and sneeze.
> 
> Christina


Oh nice, yeah I know where that place is. Thanks for the heads up.


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## jfehr232

Julio said:


> well, ibeen using this formula with a great success.
> 
> 6 cups of potato flakes
> 2 cups of brewers yeast
> 1 cup of powder sugar
> 2 table spoons of cinamon
> 
> 1 tea spoon of methyl paraben, only used with hydei cultures.


This is the mix to use for sure!!!!!!!!


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## Rain_Frog

I find it interesting that I'm one of the few people that uses flour regularly-- or used to. In fact, I thought most fruit fly medias contained flour until I started to read what was in people's recipe's ingredients more closely. I never did the potato flake thing until much later because people would tell me that it stunk more. I do think potato flake based cultures are easier to make because the media is softer and easier to stir and hydrate.

I always had high production and I have never had mite issues. I do see mites in cultures-- particularly old ones-- but I've never had cultures that failed to produce because of mites. I did though, use light that's on a timer for the flies.

I used white flour, but wheat flour is what I prefer. Maybe its the protein content of whole wheat flour?


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## earthfrog

Ed said:


> Potatos have more protein than one may expect. As a wet material (baked potato) has about 40 grams of protien/ kg potato while dry materials can run between 4-8.7% protien per kg potato flakes (variation is dependent on cultivar used in making the flakes).
> 
> Inactivated brewer's yeast is actually a different strain of yeast so there are some differences in the nutritional quality.
> 
> The whey should be fine to use (as casein was used in the early studies (as referenced in the above citation)). The paper suggested not exceeding 5% protein in the media as reduced growth was observed. I noted it to Tony so a decline in production wouldn't be translated as automatically meaning whey being bad to use in a culture as the amount of protein matters to the production levels.. This means that the amount of whey used also cannot be translated across to other media mixes as they use other ingredients with different levels.
> 
> Ed


Thanks for this, too. 
BTW---while we're talking potatoes, what kind of potato flakes do you use?


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## frogfreak

Ed said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> If it was enough to bump your total protein over 5%, it may reduce your production. If that is the case, scaling it down to the correct proportion may give you a better production rate.
> 
> Ed


Hi Ed

When you say the protein content shouldn't be over 5% by weight, is this the dry media only or the total batch, liquid included.

Thanks in advance 

BTW...The potatoes I have are 8% protein.


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## fleshfrombone

Heads up guys Super Supplements does sell brewer's/nutritional (same stuff?) yeast. I picked up a 22 oz tub for about 12 bucks.


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## Paul G

fleshfrombone said:


> Heads up guys Super Supplements does sell brewer's/nutritional (same stuff?) yeast. I picked up a 22 oz tub for about 12 bucks.


As far as I know brewers yeast and nutritional yeast are different. 

Joshs Frogs has the best price I can find out there for brewers yeast. $10 for 5lbs.
Josh's Frogs - brewers yeast (5 lbs/15 cups) - fruit fly media & media ingredients

Edit:
"Brewer's yeast is made from a one-celled fungus called Saccharomyces cerevisiae and is used to make beer. It also can be grown specifically to make nutritional supplements. Brewer's yeast is a rich source of minerals -- particularly chromium, an essential trace mineral that helps the body maintain normal blood sugar levels; selenium; protein; and the B-complex vitamins. It tastes bitter and should not be confused with baker's yeast, nutritional yeast, or torula yeast; all those types of yeast are low in chromium. Brewer's yeast has been used for years as a nutritional supplement."
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/brewers-yeast-000288.htm


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## christina hanson

gothaicus said:


> As far as I know brewers yeast and nutritional yeast are different.
> 
> Joshs Frogs has the best price I can find out there for brewers yeast. $10 for 5lbs.
> Josh's Frogs - brewers yeast (5 lbs/15 cups) - fruit fly media & media ingredients


I was confused by the difference between them and did a little research on the internet (so take it for what it's worth). My understanding is that they're nutritionally the same, but the process by which it's made is different. Brewer's yeast is a by product of the brewing industry (not surprisingly). It's gathered after brewing and pasteurized to be rendered inactive. Nutritional yeast is grown using molasses and is also inactive but has a different (maybe better) taste. I can easily get nutritional yeast at my local bulk ingredient department so that's whay I use it. I've been adding nutritional yeast to my media since the early 1990's with outstanding results.

Christina


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## billschwinn

Christina, do you see a production increase or continuous production difference between the two types of yeast?


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## christina hanson

billschwinn said:


> Christina, do you see a production increase or continuous production difference between the two types of yeast?


Bill, I'm not sure if I've ever tried the brewer's yeast, frankly I thought it was identical to nutritional yeast (they are both inactive forms of the yeast _saccharomyces cerevisiae, _so I guess for most practical purposes they are). Since they are used as nutritional supplements there seems to be a lot of snake oil involved in their description of nutritional benefits to wade through (this stuff can apparently cure just about ANYTHING that ails you) but many places suggest that the nutritional yeast is fortified with vit. B-12 which the brewer's yeast lacks. Whether that would have any affect on culture production or fly nutrition I don't know.

Christina


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## fleshfrombone

I concur Christina. They are the same species but the process is different. I'll let you guys know what kind of yields I get from the newest culture in about two weeks. The place I picked up the nutritional yeast at had brewer's yeast right next to it so we shall see.


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## Tony

Ryan, here is an update on the nutritional yeast and whey protein mix cultures:


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## fleshfrombone

Look like pretty good yields so far. How does it compare to your cultures without the whey?


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## Tony

Looks about the same, decent but not mind-blowing production.


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## radiata

Dumb yeast question...

Before reading through this thread (thanks to all contributors) I had assumed I could find "Brewer's Yeast" at a DIY winemaking/beermaking supplier. Now I'm more inclined to think I'll find active, not inactive, yeast there. Any input would be appreciated...


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## Allyn Loring

Mikembo said:


> Before my collection got big I used:
> 
> 1 cup white sugar
> 2 cups powdered/instant milk
> 4 cups instant mashed potatoes
> 2 table spoons of cinnamon
> 
> For melos I used 1/2 cup media, 1/4 cup water, 1/4 cup vinegar. Never had great success with hydei using this media...... Works great because you can get everything at your local grocery store!
> 
> -Mike-


I use this exact formula for melos and hydei just water though ,only had trouble with the hydei I suspect it was the high temps that had to do with it!!Been using it for three years!


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## amphitecna

Hi all, sorry to revive a dead post. We're having media issues (can't get Ed's fly meat in France, alas!) and have decided its time to make our own. 

If one could not get instant mashed potatoes or potato flakes, what would be a good substitution? Should I just get some potatoes and mash them myself (the alter the moisture content appropriately)??

Thanks y'all!


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## packer43064

amphitecna said:


> Hi all, sorry to revive a dead post. We're having media issues (can't get Ed's fly meat in France, alas!) and have decided its time to make our own.
> 
> If one could not get instant mashed potatoes or potato flakes, what would be a good substitution? Should I just get some potatoes and mash them myself (the alter the moisture content appropriately)??
> 
> Thanks y'all!


I'd rather revive a dead post with a legit question like yours than make a new one. 

Oatmeal might work, it has the same consistency. Let someone else chime in though. 

Mashing potatoes just seems like it would have too much moisture and would be too starchy. Ever made a baked potato and it wasn't cooked all the way! It's way too starchy and nasty tasty while potato flakes added in warm water isn't too bad really.  

I'm sure there are other recipes not using potato flakes, someone will answer soon I bet.


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## amphitecna

Right on....thanks!


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## Suzanne

I use oatmeal or weetabix (the unsugared variety called Brinta) and that works well for me.


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## fido

I have used real potatoes they work fine. Boil them mash and spread them out to dry a bit. Add vinegar and your usual protein, sugar, cinnamon etc.


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## Quaz

I've gone through a whole medly of ingrediant before I went back to the good ole joshsfrogs media. But.... what I found worked well was wheat germ, oats and or most other grain/starchy meal. I used apple sauce as a sweetener and to add some liquid.

boil all the media ingredients to break down the starches and release the sugars. Don't make it too soupy. You may need to add more dry ingredients to it to thicken it up or agar. then add the sweetness. Once it's cooled add methylparaben or other mold inhibitor. I hate vinegar cultures. They stink too much. hopefully you can find methylparaben. Stir it well then add a pinch of bakers yeast to the surface of every portion.

Hope that helps.


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## botanyboy03

My Recipe is 8 cups potato flakes, a cup of Fruit flavored Baby cereal, a cup of powdered sugar, a tablespoon or so of methylparaben, and I generally add cinnamon as I make the individual cultures, but I generally add about a half a teaspoon per as it makes them smell much better. I add hot water only, about 3/4 a cup per 1/3 cup dry, and gradually add the water, mixing with a fork to break it down until its a fine thick paste, and add more water until it is roughly the consistency of applesauce. add to culkture jars, sprinkle with baker's yeast, add excelsior, add flies, done. I am as of today, trialing a media I got from Florian's Frogs last weekend, which also has cinnamon, spirulina powder and brewer's yeast added in as well. I'm trialing it side by side with my normal stuff. Doug gets good results with his around 8 to 10 days versus my 14 on the other, but we will see. Its good, as I am almost out of the last batch of my media. If his works, I'll switch over to it with the latest batch of media I make. 

I've not tried usuing vinegar with it, as I have heard the smell is nasty, and I have never had issues with any "stank" out of my cultures. 

Zac


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## packer43064

Quaz said:


> I've gone through a whole medly of ingrediant before I went back to the good ole joshsfrogs media. But.... what I found worked well was wheat germ, oats and or most other grain/starchy meal. I used apple sauce as a sweetener and to add some liquid.
> 
> boil all the media ingredients to break down the starches and release the sugars. Don't make it too soupy. You may need to add more dry ingredients to it to thicken it up or agar. then add the sweetness. Once it's cooled add methylparaben or other mold inhibitor. I hate vinegar cultures. They stink too much. hopefully you can find methylparaben. Stir it well then add a pinch of bakers yeast to the surface of every portion.
> 
> Hope that helps.





botanyboy03 said:


> My Recipe is 8 cups potato flakes, a cup of Fruit flavored Baby cereal, a cup of powdered sugar, a tablespoon or so of methylparaben, and I generally add cinnamon as I make the individual cultures, but I generally add about a half a teaspoon per as it makes them smell much better. I add hot water only, about 3/4 a cup per 1/3 cup dry, and gradually add the water, mixing with a fork to break it down until its a fine thick paste, and add more water until it is roughly the consistency of applesauce. add to culkture jars, sprinkle with baker's yeast, add excelsior, add flies, done. I am as of today, trialing a media I got from Florian's Frogs last weekend, which also has cinnamon, spirulina powder and brewer's yeast added in as well. I'm trialing it side by side with my normal stuff. Doug gets good results with his around 8 to 10 days versus my 14 on the other, but we will see. Its good, as I am almost out of the last batch of my media. If his works, I'll switch over to it with the latest batch of media I make.
> 
> I've not tried usuing vinegar with it, as I have heard the smell is nasty, and I have never had issues with any "stank" out of my cultures.
> 
> Zac



Both: I love the smell of vinegar! I walk into the bug room with 20 some different cultures and fall into heaven with the smell around me.


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## amphitecna

Shoot, I found the potatoes (the French _do_ eat instant food!) but I was planning to use vinegar...I have issues with parabens, and since I won't use them on myself or anyone in my family, I can't feel good about giving it ultimately to the frogs....

The frogs are in our living room, and alas, their flies. We've had stinky media in the past (all bought, and most from here in Europe), and I pretty much hate it, and am now worried about the vinegar......

There are natural parabens though in Blueberries (that's why they last so long in the fridge)...not that it's blueberry season or anything, but has anyone ever tried that route? Or lemon juice as an acid preservative?

I'm going to start with the vinegar since that's what I have and cross my fingers. I'll explore other routes if I have too....

Also, and this is probably a dumb question since I think I already know the answer...but just checking, it's OK that there's no brewers yeast in the recipe? The milk powder makes up for it?

Ok, thanks everyone!!!!!


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## Pumilo

I'm afraid you may find that milk powder is going to get stinky, especially with no methyl paraben.
Doug


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## ExoticPocket

Has anyone used oats instead of instant potato flakes? Would this work or no?


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## fleshfrombone

So I've added the nutritional/brewer's yeast as Julio suggested and I'm getting a plague of flies. Each culture has to be fed out in abundance about once a week or so or their numbers overwhelm the culture. I generally get about an inch of flies in your standard 20 ounce deli cup.


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## Arpeggio

I don't have alot of experience, but I'm using (in order from highest quantity from lowest): instant potatoes, grapejuice, water, vinegar, powdered sugar, honey, and sprinkled with yeast. Smells like bread and I also put a small dab ontop of the coffee filters.


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## packer43064

ExoticPocket said:


> Has anyone used oats instead of instant potato flakes? Would this work or no?


There's people who have used it before. It will work.



fleshfrombone said:


> So I've added the nutritional/brewer's yeast as Julio suggested and I'm getting a plague of flies. Each culture has to be fed out in abundance about once a week or so or their numbers overwhelm the culture. I generally get about an inch of flies in your standard 20 ounce deli cup.


Did you not use brewers/nutritional yeast before? This is a must if you want good fly production.


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## fleshfrombone

Nope, adding it definitely had a significant impact.


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## poison beauties

Ive had great luck mixing up the following. Bananas, Baby rice cereal, powdered sugar, cinnamin, methylparaben hot water and yeast. Works great and hasnt given me any issues. Ive also used potato flakes and oatmeal in place of the cereal with good outcomes.
Ive also used beer and Kefir milk in it.

Michael


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## Woodsman

The best home-made media comes from the store ***edited for vendor feedback***.

The most important part of success in ff culturing is consistency. Once you have a program that works for you, don't deviate from it or experiment with the process too much. This will provide a nice, steady supply of ff over time, which is the most important part of frog nutrition.

IMO, Richard.


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## poison beauties

If we are picking a store bought media I would go with Michael Fredricks media at FlyCafe.

Michael


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## whitethumb

Allyn Loring said:


> I use this exact formula for melos and hydei just water though ,only had trouble with the hydei I suspect it was the high temps that had to do with it!!Been using it for three years!


whats white sugar?


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## Pumilo

whitethumb said:


> whats white sugar?


White sugar, in recipes/cookbooks, just means regular, granulated, table sugar. NOT brown sugar, NOT powdered/confectioners sugar.


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## ChrisK

As far as home made, I still can't find any recipe that beats Power Mix as far as production AND mold resistance. If anyone has tried Power Mix and prefers another home made recipe because it works better, post it!


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## whitethumb

thanks pumilio, so just regular table sugar


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## Pumilo

whitethumb said:


> thanks pumilio, so just regular table sugar


Yup, Yes, and uh-huh (10 characters!)


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## whitethumb

i'm pretty much just looking for a really easy recipe, just have one frog to care for about 6-7 months old. i have some turkish gliders that are well established and some melanos just starting out. the recipe i came across and considering is 

1 cup of regular sugar
2 cups powdered / instant milk
4 cups instant mashed potatoes
2 tablespoons of cinnamon

1/2 cup of media
1/4 cup of water
1/4 cup of vinegar

do i pretty much have it right?

do i need to microwave after the media is in the jar with the water/ vinegar? and if so how long? thank you for you feed back... my azures who's name is "woody" would greatly appreciate it


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## packer43064

whitethumb said:


> i'm pretty much just looking for a really easy recipe, just have one frog to care for about 6-7 months old. i have some turkish gliders that are well established and some melanos just starting out. the recipe i came across and considering is
> 
> 1 cup of regular sugar
> 2 cups powdered / instant milk
> 4 cups instant mashed potatoes
> 2 tablespoons of cinnamon
> 
> 1/2 cup of media
> 1/4 cup of water
> 1/4 cup of vinegar
> 
> do i pretty much have it right?
> 
> do i need to microwave after the media is in the jar with the water/ vinegar? and if so how long? thank you for you feed back... my azures who's name is "woody" would greatly appreciate it


Hey there. Honestly I wouldn't use that recipe. Some things are okay, but some I wouldn't. Powdered sugar is what you want, and the cinnamon can be used to prevent mold which the vinegar is also so I would scratch the cinnamon out. I've never used the powdered milk so don't know about that. Here's a simple recipe which I use for my cultures. Very easy and the cultures produce tons. 
Here it is:
6 cups of instant potatoes
1 cup of powdered sugar 
1 cup of brewers yeast
little less than 2 teaspoons of methyl paraben

The brewers yeast is good protein for the flies. It's cheap at the sponsor's sites. Or if you need it now you can get it at health centers (GNC) for around 12 bucks a pound. One pound is around 2.5 cups. The methyl paraben is a mold inhibitor. It's good to use, but just until recently I was using vinegar which is a mold inhibitor as well.

I also use 1/2 cup of media as well. Your wet ingredients will need more liquids added or the media will be pretty dry by the time it gets old. Also, using 50% media vs. 50% liquid, just doesn't cut it IMO to begin with....just looks to dry. Use 1/2 cup of water and 1/4 cup of vinegar. I had good results with this. 

PM if you need more help.

Jeff

Edit: Check this thread out I made a bit ago. It will explain things more clearly plus it has pics!  http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/62277-guide-making-ff-cultures.html


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## whitethumb

i really appreciate the help, and that sounds exactly like what i need. is there a substitute that i can use instead of the methyl paraben and if so what are the measurement amounts of the substitute?


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## packer43064

packer43064 said:


> Hey there. Honestly I wouldn't use that recipe. Some things are okay, but some I wouldn't. Powdered sugar is what you want, and the cinnamon can be used to prevent mold which the vinegar is also so I would scratch the cinnamon out. I've never used the powdered milk so don't know about that. Here's a simple recipe which I use for my cultures. Very easy and the cultures produce tons.
> Here it is:
> 6 cups of instant potatoes
> 1 cup of powdered sugar
> 1 cup of brewers yeast
> little less than 2 teaspoons of methyl paraben
> 
> The brewers yeast is good protein for the flies. It's cheap at the sponsor's sites. Or if you need it now you can get it at health centers (GNC) for around 12 bucks a pound. One pound is around 2.5 cups. The methyl paraben is a mold inhibitor. It's good to use, but just until recently I was using vinegar which is a mold inhibitor as well.
> I also use 1/2 cup of media as well. Your wet ingredients will need more liquids added or the media will be pretty dry by the time it gets old. Also, using 50% media vs. 50% liquid, just doesn't cut it IMO to begin with....just looks to dry. Use 1/2 cup of water and 1/4 cup of vinegar. I had good results with this.
> 
> PM if you need more help.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> Edit: Check this thread out I made a bit ago. It will explain things more clearly plus it has pics!  http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/62277-guide-making-ff-cultures.html


Check out the red text. Vinegar works, and below that paragraph I explained how much to use.


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## whitethumb

awesome, sorry bud... im at work and i just skimmed it. this should work perfect. if you've read my previous post, woody's going to love you for this lol. if not woody's my frog, his picture is in my avatar.. i might need to blow it up not sure how big it came out.


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## packer43064

I'm glad to have helped Woody! lol


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## Arpeggio

Mikembo said:


> Before my collection got big I used:
> 
> 1 cup white sugar
> 2 cups powdered/instant milk
> 4 cups instant mashed potatoes
> 2 table spoons of cinnamon
> 
> For melos I used 1/2 cup media, 1/4 cup water, 1/4 cup vinegar. Never had great success with hydei using this media...... Works great because you can get everything at your local grocery store!
> 
> -Mike-


I love this recipe. I use it for hydei.


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## JPccusa

I was surprised to see that no one has mentioned Melissa Kaplan's page in this forum (or at least the search function did not turn out anything). 

What do you think of her recipes? Homemade Fruit Fly Culture Media

I am deciding what recipe I will use. I need something that works (good production of flies), that is inexpensive, and easy to make. 



ChrisK said:


> As far as home made, I still can't find any recipe that beats Power Mix as far as production AND mold resistance. If anyone has tried Power Mix and prefers another home made recipe because it works better, post it!


What is the Power Mix recipe?


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## jacobi

JPccusa said:


> I was surprised to see that no one has mentioned Melissa Kaplan's page in this forum


Use the search feature, you'll see why.

Jake


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## Ed

JPccusa said:


> I was surprised to see that no one has mentioned Melissa Kaplan's page in this forum (or at least the search function did not turn out anything).
> 
> What do you think of her recipes? Homemade Fruit Fly Culture Media
> 
> I am deciding what recipe I will use. I need something that works (good production of flies), that is inexpensive, and easy to make.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the Power Mix recipe?


Except for the last one (which is based on the Carolina Biological Supply Companies media (who were not credited oddly enough..), they are all problematic in more than one way. 

People often want maximal production when this produces a fly that is not idealized for nutrient value (instead it is an attempt to get the greatest bang for the buck). 

Ed


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## ChrisK

JPccusa said:


> What is the Power Mix recipe?


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/63579-media-mixologist.html#post554584


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## JPccusa

Ed said:


> Except for the last one (which is based on the Carolina Biological Supply Companies media (who were not credited oddly enough..), they are all problematic in more than one way.
> 
> People often want maximal production when this produces a fly that is not idealized for nutrient value (instead it is an attempt to get the greatest bang for the buck).
> 
> Ed


Ed, do you use a homemade recipe, or commercial media?

If homemade, what recipe do you use?


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## Ed

JPccusa said:


> Ed, do you use a homemade recipe, or commercial media?
> 
> If homemade, what recipe do you use?


I used to use a homemade mix based on the Carolina media (with some additives that do improve nutritional value) but now I just use the Repashy Superfly. 

Ed


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## AsylumDart

Anyone ever use corn starch to thicken up homemade media? I’ve been using the Carolina mix recipe with some other added ingredients & for the life of me I can’t get it to set properly. I’ve added oatmeal to it to see if that helps... I’ve tried adding less water. Thanks for any info!


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## minorhero

AsylumDart said:


> Anyone ever use corn starch to thicken up homemade media? I’ve been using the Carolina mix recipe with some other added ingredients & for the life of me I can’t get it to set properly. I’ve added oatmeal to it to see if that helps... I’ve tried adding less water. Thanks for any info!


I am using my own made up recipe based on oats. Mine sets up very well. Are you using boiling water and grinding your recipe to powder in a blender?


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## Pumilo

This thread died in 2012 for a reason. Repashy Superfly.


----------

