# Jungle Dawn LED light bulb burned up



## mark c (Jun 17, 2010)

I have had two jungle dawn LED lights in a zoomed dual fixture for at least a couple years now. One is a 13 W and the other a 9 W, and they are powered by the same cord which is plugged into a timer power strip (can't tell if it is also a surge protector). 

This afternoon I came home to find everything just fine in the frog room. I was probably in there for 5 minutes, and never touched a thing, only looked around. I left the frog room for about 2 minutes and came back to find the 9 W bulb was completely dark, and billowing smoke. The 15 W bulb on the same fixture is just fine and still seems completely unaffected. 

The whole downstairs stinks, and I have been airing it out. I feel very lucky with the timing. Who knows what could have happened if I had not been right there at that exact time.

Has anyone had a problem like this with LED lights? I kind of wonder how safe these things are. 

Mark C.


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## topher (Oct 9, 2013)

I believe I read something a little while ago about this occasionally happening to jungle dawns (the original models). They have since fixed that little snag, though. I had one do that to me also. Replaced it with the newer versions and all is well.


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

I really like Jungle Dawns. That said, I had one burnout after a few months and it permeated the house with those awful burning chemical smell. I got shipped a free replacement, but that burned out after a few months as well (thankfully the smell wasn't as bad). I now no longer use Jungle Dawns. I do really appreciate what Todd has done for the hobby though.


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## joneill809 (Feb 25, 2012)

I've had 25+ JD's, some for 3+ years, without incident. The only issue I've had with them is the loss of two diodes on one unit. Other than that they have worked quite well for me. I actively cool all my hoods - not sure if that contributes to their longevity.


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## SMenigoz (Feb 17, 2004)

joneill809 said:


> I've had 25+ JD's, some for 3+ years, without incident. The only issue I've had with them is the loss of two diodes on one unit. Other than that they have worked quite well for me. I actively cool all my hoods - not sure if that contributes to their longevity.


I made the switch to LED last year for nearly my entire collection. I have experienced a rash of failing bulbs (over 10%) in their first year. Different wattages, but all in ZooMed hoods. My vendor has been fantastic replacing these bulbs. With the first "wave" of failures, they recommended removing the aluminum reflector plate from the light fixtures. This has had a dramatic effect--only one or two failed since. All failed bulbs have been returned to the vendor and then to the manufacturer for diagnosis...nothing has been shared with me yet.
I think you may be on to something with actively cooling the hoods. Very little information was available about the failure risk to LEDs due to heat when I researched it. Unsure what is considered a statistically acceptable failure rate; 10% seems extremely high. The initial cost was [hopefully] ofset by the rated longevity, decreased energy consumption and less heat. The failures were an unplanned variable to this expectation...


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

This has been my experience, as well. I suspect they don't do well in the enclosures that many of us put them in. I think they run too hot without good ventilation. I think if we all sprung for fans in their enclosures or left them out in the open somehow, they would last a lot longer. That is prohibitively expensive and impractical for me, though.

I haven't had any problem with the ones I bought from Idris (Tincman), but I haven't had them as long. He is great to do business with, as well. 

Mark


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

You may have already done this, but here is my advice: There are definitely steps that you should take to reduce the heat inside a hood like that when using those LEDs. 1. Take out the reflectors. 2. Raise the hood off the top a little so there is airflow between the hood and the glass. 3. Use fans to mechanically move air across the top if possible. By doing this, it will help to dissipate the heat that is produced in those fixtures and reduce burnout.

Lastly, contact Todd. Their customer service is top notch!


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## readygrown (Apr 5, 2008)

Mark c, what exactly do you mean by, "they are powered by the same cord", did you splice them?


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

For what its worth: Both of mine burnt up in a hood that I'd removed the metal reflector from.


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## topher (Oct 9, 2013)

There is definitely smoothing to be said about actively cooling hoods to reduce heat.. theres been quite a lot of discussion about that.. the only other burnouts Ive had have been in a hood that was not ventilated. I don't use hoods anymore, just folius mount type products and have had great results like this.


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## mark c (Jun 17, 2010)

Thanks for the info, guys. I will send the bulb back and see what happens. 

The Zoomed hood is a black plastic cover with internal reflectors, about the length of a loaf of bread. The bulbs screw in at the center, so that they point away from each other. Each bulb has a separate on/off switch, but the entire fixture only comes with a single cord to power them both (no mods by me). 

The hood has absolutely no ventilation on the sides or top. At the time it burned, it was spaced about an inch or more above the tanks. In the past, I have had it placed directly on top of plants-only tanks, so for a while there had been no ventilation underneath.

Mark C.


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

Celtic Aaron said:


> You may have already done this, but here is my advice: There are definitely steps that you should take to reduce the heat inside a hood like that when using those LEDs. 1. Take out the reflectors. 2. Raise the hood off the top a little so there is airflow between the hood and the glass. 3. Use fans to mechanically move air across the top if possible. By doing this, it will help to dissipate the heat that is produced in those fixtures and reduce burnout.


If you have to do all of that to keep them cool, why not just use CFL bulbs then? I thought the whole point of using those LED "bulbs" was about reducing the heat factor when lighting a viv?


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

JPP said:


> If you have to do all of that to keep them cool, why not just use CFL bulbs then? I thought the whole point of using those LED "bulbs" was about reducing the heat factor when lighting a viv?


I am by far a light expert, but I am going to try to answer your question as best as I can. From what I understand about LEDs, they are much more efficient and last much longer (typically) than CFLs. You can almost run 2 LED lights for the same energy it would take to run 1 CFL. Another big advantage is that LED lights are much more directional. Because of the way the diode works, you can place them on a flat surface and direct the light to the area that you want it, which creates much less wasted energy. Fluorescent hoods use reflectors to redirect the energy to where you want it, but that also means that you are directing heat down to the vivarium as well, which, in our case, we do not want most of the time. Because the diodes can be directed towards the bottom of the tank, you can leave the top of the fixture (bulb) open and allow for much more of the heat to dissipate into the atmosphere instead of directed into the viv. Also, because LEDs can be placed on a flat surface, that allows for the added benefit of a lower profile fixture.

The problem comes in when we try to use LED technology in a hood made for CFLs. The only purpose for this is to allow people to keep the light fixtures they have and enjoy the benefits of the LED. However, if you do this you have to allow for the heat created from the LED to dissipate. Some hoods have vents built into the hood, but the reflectors are blocking the flow path. Since the reflectors have no benefit with the LED, it is best to remove them. Don't get me wrong, I am sure that the buildup of heat within those hoods is just as damaging to the CFLs and probably shortens their life as well.

I understand what you are saying and agree that it is kind of a pain; however, you don't have to use a hood. Some venders sell contraptions that just allow you to rest the LED bulb on top of the glass top with the bulb elevated an inch or two above the glass. Furthermore, I know many people that are still very happy with T5s. Thoughts?


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

My 29 Gallon viv has an Exo Terra Hood on it, with CFL bulbs in it. What I did was install furniture riser "feet" into the plastic pegs that would normally fit an Exo Terra lid to lift it off of the glass. I also drilled some ventilation holes in the top of the reflectors to allow heat to directly escape vertically through the vent slots on top of the hood.

I was under the impression that Jungle Dawn's were supposed to be a big improvement over CFL in producing less heat, but it doesn't really seem like it from some of the things I've read. If a CFL dies on me, I can go to the hardware store immediately and replace it for a few dollars. If a JD bulb dies, you have to wait for shipping...if you can find what you need in stock. I often see websites sold out of certain wattages at various times.

I currently have a Zoo Med Reptisun LED fixture on my 10 gallon viv, I'll have to see how that works long term.


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## James (May 14, 2013)

Coming from the reef hobby I was surprised to see the way Leds were implemented into vivariums. 

In reef fixtures you'll be hard pressed to find a decent light that doesn't have some active cooling fans. Leds get hot and without a way to relieve that heat it's no wonder that they are burning up inside these hoods.


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## Celtic Aaron (Jun 12, 2013)

JPP said:


> My 29 Gallon viv has an Exo Terra Hood on it, with CFL bulbs in it. What I did was install furniture riser "feet" into the plastic pegs that would normally fit an Exo Terra lid to lift it off of the glass. I also drilled some ventilation holes in the top of the reflectors to allow heat to directly escape vertically through the vent slots on top of the hood.
> 
> I was under the impression that Jungle Dawn's were supposed to be a big improvement over CFL in producing less heat, but it doesn't really seem like it from some of the things I've read. If a CFL dies on me, I can go to the hardware store immediately and replace it for a few dollars. If a JD bulb dies, you have to wait for shipping...if you can find what you need in stock. I often see websites sold out of certain wattages at various times.
> 
> I currently have a Zoo Med Reptisun LED fixture on my 10 gallon viv, I'll have to see how that works long term.


You certainly have a point about replacing the bulb. LEDs are more expensive to replace; however, given proper care they are supposed to last much longer also. That along with using much less energy gives them some advantage. One of the other advantages is the ability to build your own LED system...I have not gotten that brave yet, but maybe one day.

LED fixtures do get hot, but they seem to have more directional light so it can be focused into the viv while the heat is dispersed away from the viv. With fluorescents, you need to use reflectors to direct that light (and heat with it) into the viv. That is my understanding of it. While I use mainly LEDs anymore, I also use T5s and CFLs. All work well and have their place.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

JPP said:


> My 29 Gallon viv has an Exo Terra Hood on it, with CFL bulbs in it. What I did was install furniture riser "feet" into the plastic pegs that would normally fit an Exo Terra lid to lift it off of the glass. I also drilled some ventilation holes in the top of the reflectors to allow heat to directly escape vertically through the vent slots on top of the hood.
> 
> I was under the impression that Jungle Dawn's were supposed to be a big improvement over CFL in producing less heat, but it doesn't really seem like it from some of the things I've read. If a CFL dies on me, I can go to the hardware store immediately and replace it for a few dollars. If a JD bulb dies, you have to wait for shipping...if you can find what you need in stock. I often see websites sold out of certain wattages at various times.
> 
> I currently have a Zoo Med Reptisun LED fixture on my 10 gallon viv, I'll have to see how that works long term.


Most LEDs do produce less heat but its not because they are simply more efficient its more because they focus all the light down so you can light a tank with less lumens/PAR/whatever measure you wish. But the actual efficiency of LEDs is not that much more than CFL. Makers of these lights include companies like beamswork, finnex, current usa, buildmyled, etc....

That said I still think LEDs are better the problem is that this hobby specifically has just chosen to push people to use an LED that doesn't really make sense for 90% of the people and cases they are using it. This led is the screw in type you are discussing which include jungle dawns. It is always better to avoid using name brands because it causes people to think there is only one choice. Lets call them PLC E27 LEDs. 

The enemy of LEDs and ALL electronics is heat. So there are several things you can do to lower heat. 

1 the heat problems on an LED come from 2 sources, the PSU, and the diodes themselves. One way to reduce heat is to spread it out. The easiest way to do that is to separate the PSU from the diodes. And not only is it easy its also makes it so if a PSU fails it is much easier to replace. PLC E27s do not do this they jam the PSU into a tiny space hidden under the heat sink right above the LED PCB. 

2 Because the diodes create heat another way to keep them cool is to spread them out. This is also vastly superior in most lighting situations because it creates more even lighting which gets to more leaves better. Once again PLC E27s do not do this rather they try to jam as many LEDs as their thermal budget allows into a small space so they can fit in fixtures made for small incandescent bulbs. 

3 Ventilation, most PLC LEDs are made to fit in fixtures that were made for CFLs, because of this they had reflectors that are just not needed for LEDs. While you can certainly get different fixtures most people do not like them or were told to buy the exo terra or zoomed fixtures at a pet store or from people whom suggest it. So if you are going to use one of these fixtures you should remove the reflectors and or add extra ventilation. 


My opinion is that the solution is not to buy CFLs but rather to buy an LED light that has some or all of the desired features I listed above. But you may ask why don't we already do this. And my answer is I really don't know. For some reason long ago before I started back into PDFs the PDF community started using PLC E27s, perhaps because of targeted marketing, perhaps because at the time they were the cheapest options, who knows. Now days people are just going on inertia I guess. Its hard to change. Most people just say well these E27 PLCs are working great for me and then tell others to buy them. Suppliers may have connections and relationships with these LED makers. On top of that if they sell you PLC E27s they can then get you to buy a hood or fixture, and sometimes more stuff like little stands and supports and stuff. 

But you don't need to do all that simply buy an planted aquarium suitable light. Throw it on the top and you are done. Many of them come with separated PSUs, more spread out LEDs and you don't need to buy a hood or waste your time removing reflectors or assembling a rats nest of wires. And a lot of them look fantastic too.


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## DaisyMaisy (May 6, 2015)

I'm just a frog newbie, but I run LEDs across my reef and freshwater planted tanks. These are made for that purpose and have a heat sink across the top of the whole fixture which gets quite warm, about 110 degrees. The heat goes up into the heat sink where it can dissipate into the air, and not overheat. My understanding has always been that they need to stay cool - i.e. they need a cooling fan if in an enclosed space. It's interesting to see how LEDs are used in different settings in different hobbies. They certainly have proliferated in the last 5 years or so.


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