# Who has frogs coming Wednesday from UE?



## ladyfaile15 (Apr 22, 2009)

since we usually have one of these every time, i thought i would start this one  what does everyone have coming in this weeks shipment? i have a male Borja Ridge for my lonely females, and a 1.2 trio of iquitos coming. i will make sure to get some pics when they arrive 

jamie


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## tachikoma (Apr 16, 2009)

I have 4 spurelli, and 3 calcarifer coming!!! Super excited for them!


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I have a best guess 2.3 Paru sylvaticus coming in on Wednesday.


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## ibytencode (Mar 25, 2012)

I have 0.0.5 D. Azureus coming a week from this Tuesday/Wednesday. So excited!


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

I should have 5 retics arriving Wed morning. They've been on my list for several years now, and I finally splurged.


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## Tomoko Schum (Jan 14, 2012)

I am expecting a probably pair of R. imitator varadero. Has anyone gotten the airway bill yet?


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## cbreon (Apr 25, 2005)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I have a best guess 2.3 Paru sylvaticus coming in on Wednesday.


Hey Jake, how do you plan on keeping these? What size enclosure, what ratio, etc??


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## ibytencode (Mar 25, 2012)

ibytencode said:


> I have 0.0.5 D. Azureus coming a week from this Tuesday/Wednesday. So excited!


I didn't see the entire message title, so please disregard this. all I saw was "who has frogs coming..." from my phone. My frogs are not coming from UE.

Thanks,


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## dartdevil1 (Apr 23, 2011)

I have 5 golden mantellas coming in wed morning.can't wait.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

For the record, I am very jealous.



SmackoftheGods said:


> I have a best guess 2.3 Paru sylvaticus coming in on Wednesday.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)

Some female Ameerega altamazonica coming to join my boys...its been years, those poor gals better prepare themselves.


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## ladyfaile15 (Apr 22, 2009)

looks like quite a few people are getting some really awsome frogs! im jealous of you guys, lol 

jamie


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

0.0.4 Ranitomeya summersi to the rescue...my banded's have waited long enough


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## thickpotpies27 (Nov 9, 2011)

im sorry, but whats the eu


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

thickpotpies27 said:


> im sorry, but whats the eu


EU is Europe... this thread is about UE, which stands for Understory Enterprises- Dart Frogs for Sale | Understory Enterprises

Very jealous of all the frogs you guys have coming... please post pictures when you get them!
Bryan


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm getting in Marks "last minute" offer of Fantastica with a pair of Caynarachi.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

Dang Doug, you're getting some seriously cool frogs lately. 



Pumilo said:


> I'm getting in Marks "last minute" offer of Fantastica with a pair of Caynarachi.


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Face it Doug, your wife could be giving BIRTH...you could be going through with a surgical procedure, heck...you could even be OUT OF THE COUNTRY....and you'd STILL happen to order more frogs somehow, wouldn't you???? Ahahahha *grin*


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

yours said:


> Face it Doug, your wife could be giving BIRTH...you could be going through with a surgical procedure, heck...you could even be OUT OF THE COUNTRY....and you'd STILL happen to order more frogs somehow, wouldn't you???? Ahahahha *grin*


How did you know? I'm in Mexico getting my spine replaced with a bionic titanium structure, as we speak. No more babies though! More than two kids and we are outnumbered!


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## NVfrogger (Apr 10, 2011)

I am getting a trio of A. bassleri blue/chrome green and a trio of A hahneli -inquitos from UE.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

NVfrogger said:


> I am getting a trio of A. bassleri blue/chrome green


I was able to take a look at JimO's....prepare yourself NV, they are absolutely beautiful!! If you have only seen photos you are in for a very pleasant surprise.


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## NVfrogger (Apr 10, 2011)

I can't wait I talked to Jim about them when he posted some pics, very impressive I must say in pics can't wait to see them in person.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm getting a best guess 0.1 Blackwater amazonica, 1.0 Varadero imitator, and 1.2 Paru sylvatica


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

thedude said:


> I'm getting a best guess 0.1 Blackwater amazonica, 1.0 Varadero imitator, and 1.2 Paru sylvatica


I wanna see pics of those sylvatica when they get in! Judging by the UE site they have some awesome color variability.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I'll be experimenting a bit. Assuming I get the ratio I want they will be kept 1.1 in a vertical tank and 1.2 in a horizontal tank. Just trying to figure out what works best. After that... who knows?


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## chrism (Apr 11, 2007)

Wonder if any sylvatica will make it over here. 
I've been on their waiting list since the rumour first started, but all list we've had for Europe haven't mentioned them yet...


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Today is the day! I hope that tonight we all get pictures


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I'll be experimenting a bit. Assuming I get the ratio I want they will be kept 1.1 in a vertical tank and 1.2 in a horizontal tank. Just trying to figure out what works best. After that... who knows?


? perplexed ?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Tuckinrim8 said:


> ? perplexed ?


Chris, he's answering a question from earlier, about how he will be keeping his 2.3 Paru.


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

SmackoftheGods said:


> I'll be experimenting a bit. Assuming I get the ratio I want they will be kept 1.1 in a vertical tank and 1.2 in a horizontal tank. Just trying to figure out what works best. After that... who knows?


As close to cube shaped would be best - they use all the floor space AND height (plants) especially if there's more than 1.1 - think of them as a large pumilio.


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## Tuckinrim8 (Jul 26, 2007)

Pumilo said:


> Chris, he's answering a question from earlier, about how he will be keeping his 2.3 Paru.


Hey Doug, I was just giving him a bit of a hard time.. 😁 I have my viv already built and so I guess he considers it a vertically oriented set up.. (I got a 1.1)


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## InnoEcto (Jun 28, 2009)

We got 4 of the Pampa Hermosa benedicta, and 2 uakarii. We're prety excited about the new additions.


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## pnsnowboard (Oct 25, 2010)

So lets see these frogs its wednesday any pictures yet?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm working on it. These are by far the weirdest looking frogs I've ever seen. Their colors and patterns are crazy!


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## R&Mfroggers (Mar 10, 2012)

man o man i am hitting my self over the head, i found UE in december and i emailed them and requested to get in on the Paru sylvaticus and i was going to send them money but then my wife convinced me that it could be a scam so i emailed them back and requested to be removed , and they did i wanted them so bad to and now you can't even get on a waiting list. i wish i joined DB sooner i just seen this thread and i am devastated  but what am i going to do , i am so jealous. all i have to say is i am very happy for all of you and i hope they are all as beautiful as the pic's portrayed them to be. and if any of you get offspring please get in-tuch with me it would mean so much to me.
congrats guys


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

R&Mfroggers said:


> man o man i am hitting my self over the head, i found UE in december and i emailed them and requested to get in on the Paru sylvaticus and i was going to send them money but then my wife convinced me that it could be a scam so i emailed them back and requested to be removed , and they did i wanted them so bad to and now you can't even get on a waiting list. i wish i joined DB sooner i just seen this thread and i am devastated  but what am i going to do , i am so jealous. all i have to say is i am very happy for all of you and i hope they are all as beautiful as the pic's portrayed them to be. and if any of you get offspring please get in-tuch with me it would mean so much to me.
> congrats guys


1. The wife has some serious making up to do  

2. If you are ever in doubt about the legitimacy of someone or their business, you can always ask around, or check the vendor feedback section on this site. You will see nothing but positive feedback about UE.

3. Not sure how long you have been in the hobby but these frogs are both extremely rare and extremely hard to breed. You should spend a while working with many other species before trying to acquire these.


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## R&Mfroggers (Mar 10, 2012)

Oooo I new to the board not the hobby I did alot of reserch on these little guys im not looking to breed them just add to my colection of oophaga's


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## R&Mfroggers (Mar 10, 2012)

Oooo I new to the board not the hobby I did alot of reserch on these little guys im not looking to breed them just add to my colection of oophaga's and I cant blame her it was before I joined DB, and I was going to send a good amount of money to some one I never herd of or worked with. But trust me I was wrong and boy do I regret it, from what I see and feel UE is a wonderful organization and I'm looking to work with them from here on along with the others I do


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

R&Mfroggers said:


> Oooo I new to the board not the hobby I did alot of reserch on these little guys im not looking to breed them just add to my colection of oophaga's and I cant blame her it was before I joined DB, and I was going to send a good amount of money over sea's to some one I never herd of or worked with. But trust me I was wrong and boy do I regret it, from what I see and feel UE is a wonderful organization and I'm looking to work with them from here on along with the others I do


"Over sea's"?? Where do you think Canada is? Mark Pepper of Understory Enterprises is in Canada.
I'm of the opinion that all the first release of these should go to experienced breeders. They will need all the help they can get to become established in the hobby.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

R&Mfroggers said:


> Oooo I new to the board not the hobby I did alot of reserch on these little guys im not looking to breed them just add to my colection of oophaga's


This isn't a frog for "collecting" honestly. They need to only be in the hands of people who will be trying to breed them. Again, they are extremely rare. The hobby needs all the frogs in experienced hands. Especially with so few coming in.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

R&Mfroggers said:


> im not looking to breed them just add to my colection of oophaga's


Rare frogs should not be distributed to individuals with this kind of mentality. If you want a sustainable population for any period of time within the hobby then it requires breeding. With fickle breeders like Oophaga genus frogs, keepers MUST be breeders - otherwise we risk weakening the gene pool of that locale.


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## R&Mfroggers (Mar 10, 2012)

hay I'm not saying i wouldn't mind breeding them, it just wasn't my initial motive. heck id love to breed such beautiful darts.


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## R&Mfroggers (Mar 10, 2012)

i agree with you 100% , and with a lack there of, one can not breed


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## Armson (Sep 8, 2008)

Where are the pictures???!!???


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

I agree. Ok Doug, let's see those Fants. 



Armson said:


> Where are the pictures???!!???


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

R&Mfroggers said:


> man o man i am hitting my self over the head, i found UE in december and i emailed them and requested to get in on the Paru sylvaticus and i was going to send them money but then my wife convinced me that it could be a scam so i emailed them back and requested to be removed , and they did i wanted them so bad to and now you can't even get on a waiting list. i wish i joined DB sooner i just seen this thread and i am devastated  but what am i going to do , i am so jealous. all i have to say is i am very happy for all of you and i hope they are all as beautiful as the pic's portrayed them to be. and if any of you get offspring please get in-tuch with me it would mean so much to me.
> congrats guys


I bought my frogs from UE. The frogs were healthy and they were easy to do business with. Sucks you missed your chance but there is always another end of the line you can get in ha-ha.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

JimO said:


> I agree. Ok Doug, let's see those Fants.


InnoEcto is holding them hostage until I pony up my half of the shipping.  Just kidding, Nick and Austin and I split shipping and she picked them up this morning. We are getting together late this afternoon so I can pick them up from her.


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## thercman (Feb 18, 2010)

I received mine earlier today but had to go to class. Also picking up another order from different breeder. Ill post pics in a couple hours. 4 species in all.


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## R&Mfroggers (Mar 10, 2012)

yea it sucks but they will be in circulation soon enuf till then i have lots of tending to with my pum's , hell now i have an excuse to buy another climate control unit ;-)


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Rare frogs should not be distributed to individuals with this kind of mentality. If you want a sustainable population for any period of time within the hobby then it requires breeding. With fickle breeders like Oophaga genus frogs, keepers MUST be breeders - otherwise we risk weakening the gene pool of that locale.


If this were entirely true, we should not be taking them out of their local period. More frogs die transporting them out of their local for us to "breed". So, if this hobby is not endangering the species it should not matter if one person does not wish to breed. If taking them out of the wild is endangering the species and ruining gene pools, we should not be taking them out of the wild.


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## JimO (May 14, 2010)

jeeperrs said:


> If this were entirely true, we should not be taking them out of their local period. More frogs die transporting them out of their local for us to "breed". So, if this hobby is not endangering the species it should not matter if one person does not wish to breed. If taking them out of the wild is endangering the species and ruining gene pools, we should not be taking them out of the wild.


I don't believe that Jake is referring to the gene pool in the wild, but that in the captive population. If only a couple hundred are imported, then there will be quite a small gene pool for breeders to work with. The project in Ecuador that is exporting these frogs appears to be doing all the right things - restoring habitat, enhancing the habitat for frog production, working with the frogs in country to minimize shipping losses, and exporting a sustainable number of frogs. This kind of effort should be applauded.

Here is their website: Wikiri Selva Viva - Living Forest


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Beat me to it Jim. That's how I took it. Obviously we are talking about the captive gene pool as removing a pair of frogs from the captive gene pool cannot affect the wild population.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

jeeperrs said:


> If this were entirely true, we should not be taking them out of their local period. More frogs die transporting them out of their local for us to "breed". So, if this hobby is not endangering the species it should not matter if one person does not wish to breed. If taking them out of the wild is endangering the species and ruining gene pools, we should not be taking them out of the wild.


What Jim said. Also, the frogs that are dieing through exporting aren't from companies like UE. It is from the typical reptile and amphibian exporters that don't take care of their animals, and from smugglers. This project happens to be combating smuggling and helping these frogs in the wild.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Well, there are only two fixes to the problem. Pony up the cash for rare frogs or start having people sign contracts to breed them (kind of like buying a cat and agreeing to not declaw them). Actually, the contract idea may not be a bad idea. However, currently it is about who has the cash and who will pay the piper.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

jeeperrs said:


> Well, there are only two fixes to the problem. Pony up the cash for rare frogs or start having people sign contracts to breed them (kind of like buying a cat and agreeing to not declaw them). Actually, the contract idea may not be a bad idea. However, currently it is about who has the cash and who will pay the piper.


Or we could try to educate the frog keepers.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Or we could try to educate the frog keepers.


I am a professor and I know first hand that education never trumps cash.  LOL


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

jeeperrs said:


> I am a professor and I know first hand that education never trumps cash.  LOL


Considering UE wants to see these frogs do well in the hobby, and are doing great things for conservation, I doubt they would be ok giving these to people with little experience just because of money.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

thedude said:


> Considering UE wants to see these frogs do well in the hobby, and are doing great things for conservation, I doubt they would be ok giving these to people with little experience just because of money.


Read my previous post about UE. I said they were great and that is who I have done business with. I just said education never trumps cash.

Back to the point of the thread... Where are the pictures?


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Found my camera battery finally and took some pics of my R. summersi out of the box this morning.....unfortunately, I've had a chronic migraine relapse since Saturday night, so hopefully I pointed straight!  

Will check in later after dinner as I'm on my phone...


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## thercman (Feb 18, 2010)

Hey guys! Here are some quick shots. The trivittata are huge. I knew they were a larger species but wow! Interestingly, they hid the fastest. Disappeared in a 20 gallon tank in a blink of an eye.  The trivittata, auratus and vents are from UE and the P. vittatus are from Josh...


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

You mean "UE"?

And now I can't find my camera - computer cable connector...grrrr...if its not one thing, it's another!! I may have to buy another one..


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Nice trivittata!

Here's a picture of the Paru:









Go here to see the rest: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/81925-show-me-your-paru-2.html


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

JimO said:


> I agree. Ok Doug, let's see those Fants.


Here you go Jim, first two pics are the probable male and the second two are the probable female.


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## stemcellular (Jun 26, 2008)




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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

jeeperrs said:


> If this were entirely true, we should not be taking them out of their local period. More frogs die transporting them out of their local for us to "breed". So, if this hobby is not endangering the species it should not matter if one person does not wish to breed. If taking them out of the wild is endangering the species and ruining gene pools, we should not be taking them out of the wild.


Considering that I did not want to enter into an argument about the ethics behind taking animals from their natural habitats, I chose to limit my post to regard only those frogs and that gene pool WITHIN the hobby... that may be the reason I used the phrase "within the hobby" in that post. But I'll bite (temporary as that bite may be). I wonder how many conservations projects like Understory or WIKIRI would actually receive donations from private citizens without a product to sell. Go ahead and argue from an idealogical standpoint, but unless you have numbers to support the claim I argue that we don't live in an ideal world. Surely there must be a reason that UE and WIKIRI and other conservation projects offer frogs to the private sector....



jeeperrs said:


> Well, there are only two fixes to the problem. Pony up the cash for rare frogs or start having people sign contracts to breed them (kind of like buying a cat and agreeing to not declaw them). Actually, the contract idea may not be a bad idea. However, currently it is about who has the cash and who will pay the piper.


An interesting thought. Probably why Mark chose to offer these frogs to those individuals who have had remarkable breeding success with previously offered frogs from his stock....

I'm done. Go ahead and keep arguing if you like, but your argument about wild frogs does nothing against my statement about captive frogs. If people choose not to breed a frog that is a sporadic and slow breeder (like Oophaga genus frogs) then it won't last long in the hobby.


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> Here you go Jim, first two pics are the probable male and the second two are the probable female.


I absolutely LOVE those frogs.


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## R&Mfroggers (Mar 10, 2012)

Yea they are sweet looking I like the color varying spots, cant wate to get mine


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