# Rock Build



## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Working on a rock background. It will be in 2-22x17x24 tanks.

I will go ahead and post some pics of the fake rocks that I got from Vivarium Works Online Shop These rocks look awesome!

 106_1248 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr  106_1249 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

After trimming them down with a hacksaw, and placed them in the tank. This is how the rocks will be placed.



106_1730 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1729 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

And this is a pic from a different angle showing how it connects to the other tank.

106_1733 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

I plan to use the Tightbond 3, with peat moss, possibly tree fern fiber, and acrylic paint for coloring.

My next challenge is to find out how I will do this.
One way I was thinking of doing. Is to take out the rocks. Add the Tightbond 3 mixture to the back of the tank. Then place the rocks in the tank. This seems to be the simplest way. But I'm unsure if the glue will be strong enough to hold the rocks onto the background. Granted the rocks are very light.

Another way I was thinking about going about it is to trace around the rocks with a marker. Add the tightbond mixture the best that I can. It will definitely overlap. But then I would be able to use silicone to attach the rocks to the background.

But to add the rocks first, then add the tightbond mix. Seems not very doable since there are many hard to reach places.

I'm definitely up for some Ideas if anybody has any experience with the tightbond 3 method.


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Looks good. I would silicone the rocks on the glass and then fill the gaps with titebond.

Check out Brad's video for the TB method: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/128081-titebond-3-method-video.html


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey Nick, use silicone to hold the cut pieces to the glass. Use a clear or black silicone. You can use blue painters tape to make sure the silicone is nice and clean, which will make a difference on how it looks for those side pieces. Just peel it off before it cures obviously.

As for the rest you could always use a small amount of GS foam to connect them to the back glass/foam and then use the tightbond 3 after it's all been glued to the glass by the GS. You wouldn't need to use tons of the GS foam like most do, it would be very small thin lengths just around the bases or under the bases of the rocks. It's really strong stuff so a little should work well. Also let the tb3 cure for a good while before moving the tank vertical so as to make sure it has fully set in all the cracks.

If you are having issues with applying the tb3 into the small areas, something you can do is to go to your local cake decorating isle in the grocery store. They should have these plastic icing bags and plastic tips pretty cheap. Load up the tb3 mix, and use this nozzle to fill in those hard to reach cracks. You'll need to make sure the final mix viscosity isn't too high so it can pass through the nozzle size.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I got plenty of black silicone. Plus I got a big bottle of TB3, with a bag of peat moss. I will probably throw some tree fern fiber in it too. But not in the tight parts that will need the piping bag.

I will debate the GS Foam. The big reason I went for this rock build is for the ledges. I think it will be awesome seeing my frogs hanging out on them, and I'm afraid the GS Foam will take away from that. But I am going to have a trial run with some corrugated plastic (plastic cardboard) first. I will try the GS Foam on that to see how much space it will take away, and how well I can cut it down. I haven't used GS Foam yet, so I may be surprised.

Or I could add extra TB3 mix to add depth. Then let it sit for 2 weeks to be sure it dries all the way. But if it ends up being flat. I'm sure over time some vines will fill it in.

Thanks for the ideas! And thank you Vivarium Works for the awesome fake rocks. They were very easy to cut with a hack saw. Plus the cuts came out fairly straight. Well as straight as I need them to be. I definitely prefer the foam filled for cutting. Gives more stability. But it won't stop me from using the ones that aren't.

I will be working on it this weekend.


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## Cyber Dendro (Jun 5, 2013)

kevin575 said:


> After trimming them down with a hacksaw, and placed them in the tank. This is how the rocks will be placed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


may some one help me how to do this rock and some back ground step by steo . THANKS


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Sorry for the long response. I had some bad luck. But anyways. I finally got around to trying out 3 different ways of doing the TB3 background.

Here's a pic of all 3. 

106_1739 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

Going from left to right. The first one I mixed brown acrylic paint with the titebond 3. Then I put out a thin layer of it. I waited for 30 min. I placed a piece of fake rock that I'm not going to use, then put some peat moss on top of it. 
The reason I waited 30 min to put anything on it. Is cause I may need 30 min to place everything.

106_1742 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

The second, I mixed the glue with black acrylic paint (won't do that again). Mixed some peat moss into it. Put it on the plastic, and placed the fake rock on it. I like this on the most so far. I was thinking that if the rocks fall off. I could always silicone it back in.

106_1740 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

The third, I mixed brown acrylic with the glue. Added some peat moss. Some of the moss clogged the line. Maybe if I sifted the big pieces out it could work. But hopefully I won't have to go this route. It was an interesting idea though.

106_1743 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

I will update my progress tomorrow.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

Kevin,

Very excited to see how this progresses! 

And yes those rocks look awesome! I loved the rocks I purchased from Vivarium Works!

I will be watching this thread!

Good luck,

Todd


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Ok, both of them turned out looking good. Plus it's still a hard call.

The first attempt, the dirt held on very good even after the 30 min wait. The rock was stuck on it fairly good. After a decent amount of pressure the rock did come loose. But the glue was still wet under it. So I put it back to see how strong of a hold it will have after a few days. This will probably be the path I will take.

The second attempt. The texture is very nice. I think it would look better if I put some loose dirt on top of it. An attempt I may do tomorrow. Bad part is that the fake rock came off fairly easy. But I don't think it would be hard to silicone it back into place.

So both ways are good, from what I can see. If your not wanting much thickness in your background. The first attempt is the way to go. If your wanting to have more thickness the second is better. Granted me saying this is probably a duh! moment. But I'm just trying to help.

I will post more info soon.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

If you are looking to just glue the rocks together or to the glass, I've found that low temperature melt hot glue works surprisingly well. Especially on glass. Not 100% on it's long term usage for gluing things together but I use this sometimes when gluing together my builds, then foam in the cavities with GS foam to make a single solid piece. A lot of people use way more GS then I tend to. I've found small amounts go a long way and really help with void filling, acting as a matrix, and as a rock-to-glass adhesive. Something worth thinking about if you have some volume you need filled but don't want to use a ton of the TB3/peat. You would then cover any of the foam with the TB3/peat mix for uniformity of texture and look. I'm just thinking this might work better than waiting for the TB3 to dry under the rocks to hold the rocks in place. I haven't used the TB3 method in quite a while but I recall it took a while for it to fully dry.

Bummer about the cake icing idea. Really thought that would work.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

The cake icing idea could still work with just the glue. To fill in hard to reach places. Then pack dirt on top of it. So it's not a total fail.

Thanks for the idea of using hot glue. That could actually work well with an idea I got. I'm probably making this project harder than what it is. But since the temps are dropping, I may have to wait till spring to get frogs. So I got plenty of time. 

The over all plan I got is to have a thin background between the rocks. The vision I got is to have climbing vines filling in the voids. It will take time to grow in. But in the end I think it would look good.

So I could use the hot glue gun to temporarily place the rocks on the glass. Tip the tank right side up. Take an erasable marker, and outline the rock on the opposite side of the glass. Take rocks out. Add TB3 on all the spots that the rock isn't. Probably overlap the lines slightly. Then add silicone to the rocks, and place them. Then dump substrate over it, and pack it in. Let sit for a few weeks. If needed, I could go back with the Icing Tube to add glue, and pack substrate on the spots that need it. 

That would give me the thin background, and the strength of silicone to hold the rocks. Win, win. Just need to do it fast so the glue doesn't dry. I will do a time trial with 1 hour, and another with 1hour 30min. To see what kind of time I can have.

My fear about using TB3 to hold the rocks, is that if no air gets to the glue behind the rocks to hold them. It might not dry. But if I did go that route. I would let it sit for at least a month. If it don't dry, and the rocks fall off. I could then dab as much of the glue off as I can with a paper towel. Then silicone the rocks in.

Hopefully I will find the time to do this project this weekend. Thanks for all the ideas. This tank is going to be awesome!


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## RobDraw (Oct 26, 2013)

Nice sharing and you have got a very good collection too..
I is necessary to complete our home work before completing our project and i think you have done your home work very well.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I've used a coffee grinder to pulverize the spagnum peat (not the strand type...the kind used for starting seeds) And have added moss pieces and made a slurry to apply with a plastic knife--so it eventually will grow moss...


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Thanks for the moss idea. I will probably try it when the tank is up and running.

Got the first tank done. I will post pics tomorrow. I did it with just TB3. Mixed acrylic paint to change the glue color, and put a good layer of glue over the entire back. Added the rocks, sprinkled peat moss over the remaining glue. Then packed the dirt into the glue.
It's taken a few days. But the rocks seem pretty solid in the glue. I had a few spots to cover up. Mainly just edges of the rock that needed to be built up to cover.
The odd part though is. I got a couple extra Glad containers that I planned to waste since I had to mix the glue with paint. Well, I saw the container next to the tank, and pulled the plastic knife out. When I did the glue came out. I was actually able to pull all of the dried glue out. Container looked new again. Kinda got me worried. Hope it sticks to glass a lot better than it does to plastic. But I remembered that silicone itself, doesn't stick to some smooth plastics. So I'm going to hope it's the same situation.

I just got done doing the 2nd tank today. After seeing the situation with the Glad container. I decided to trace the rocks on the tank with an erasable marker. Then I added glue, leaving a little bit of space where I could add silicone. So the second one will definitely have a good hold. Probably should have stuck with that plan on the first tank. But o-well, it's not like I can't redo it if it don't work out. I will run this tank for a month or so before adding frogs.

And talking of frogs! I ordered 7 Super Blues from Dartfrog Warehouse. I don't plan to keep all 7 in one tank. I will for a little while, after they are sexed, I will sell off a few of them. I got 2 ten gallon tanks setup, and ready to old them till the big tanks are ready.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Got the first tank done. I will post pics tomorrow. I did it with just TB3. Mixed acrylic paint to change the glue color, and put a good layer of glue over the entire back. Added the rocks, sprinkled peat moss over the remaining glue. Then packed the dirt into the glue. It's taken a few days. But the rocks seem pretty solid in the glue. I had a few spots to cover up. Mainly just edges of the rock that needed to be built up to cover. 

The odd part though is. I got a couple extra Glad containers that I planned to waste since I had to mix the glue with paint. Well, I saw the container next to the tank, and pulled the plastic knife out. When I did the glue came out. I was actually able to pull all of the dried glue out. Container looked new again.

Kinda got me worried. Hope it sticks to glass a lot better than it does to plastic. But I remembered that silicone itself, doesn't stick to some smooth plastics. So I'm going to hope it's the same situation. I just got done doing the 2nd tank today. After seeing the situation with the Glad container. I decided to trace the rocks on the tank with an erasable marker. Then I added glue, leaving a little bit of space where I could add silicone. So the second one will definitely have a good hold. Probably should have stuck with that plan on the first tank. But o-well, it's not like I can't redo it if it don't work out. I will run this tank for a month or so before adding frogs.

And talking of frogs! I ordered 7 Super Blues from Dartfrog Warehouse. I don't plan to keep all 7 in one tank. I will for a little while, after they are sexed, I will sell off a few of them. I got 2 ten gallon tanks setup, and ready to old them till the big tanks are ready.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Well I got a few pics. Can't really tell which one I did different, and the pics aren't the greatest. Because I can't set the tanks one the shelf yet. I set the first tank on the shelf, and some glue came out from behind the bottom rock. Which is probably my fault since I put extra glue behind it, since it had some extra space behind the rock and I was going for a stronger hold. I have one spot on that tank that I need to touch up. Then I should be done. Then I will be on to adding the substrate and plants.


106_1748 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


106_1747 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## tomer.baron (Jan 31, 2013)

Looks great, can't wait to see it progress


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Got some new frogs in! I got 7 Super Blue Auratus. I got them from Dart Frog Warehouse. I'm super impressed with them. I asked for variety of color and patterns. I definitely got that. Got green, aqua blue, blue, and purplish, plus the designs are the regular camo and reticulated. These are going to look awesome in my new tanks.

For now they are in 2 ten gallon tanks, till the build is ready. Here's some pics.

106_1749 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1767 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1765 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
You can definitely see the difference in patterns here. I actually wrote the breeder saying I think he mixed in an El Cope. But he assured me it was a Super Blue

106_1763 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1762 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1755 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1758 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1760 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
Wazzup!

106_1754 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Pushing forward on my tanks. I did get the hole bigger so my bulkheads would fit. Definitely took a while.
One of my tanks has been leaking glue from behind a fake rock. Which is my fault. It had some craters on the back of it. So I added extra glue to try and get a stronger hold. But the other one seems ready. 
I went ahead and put them on my rack, and started hooking up the drains. But first I will show what the tanks look like with the LED light.

106_1791 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1792 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1793 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1794 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

This is the drain setup. Used Mistking's 3/8 bulkheads. Ran the line down to he bottom of the rack, and into a Kis container. (gotta love how I can roll around my racks)

106_1795 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1801 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I'm going to use 2" filter foam as a false bottom. I trimmed up the front edge so I can put some gravel in the front for cosmetic reasons.

106_1802 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

Next I'm going to add Turface, some isopod filled ABG mix, and leaf litter. Then hook up the misting system. Should have that done tomorrow. 

If anybody has some suggestions on what kind of plants would be good. I'm open to some suggestions. I'm definitely getting some Korean Rock Ferns. But given the way I did my background. I'm not going to be able to stick much to the back. Going to have to wait till whatever climbing vines I can find, fill it in.

Thanks for looking at my thread.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Well I will do an update to those that might be interested.

This is the tank to the right. I have a few Tillandsias, Macodes petola
Jewel Orchid, and a Korean Rock Fern. Got them from New England Herpetoculture LLC - Home These guys are awesome! I will definitely buy from them in the future.
I wish I ordered more Tillandsias, but I never seen one so I wasn't sure if it would be too big or be right for my application. Boy, was I wrong. These things are awesome! I just hope that they can survive in a Sherman vented design tank without an actual fan.

106_1816 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


106_1817 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1819 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1820 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

This tank will occupy 7 D. Auratus Super Blues, it is a 40 gallon tank, and I may be pushing the limit for the time being. But if I start seeing any trouble with eating, or bullying. I got a few ten gallons set up for them to be transferred to.

This is my left tank, just waiting for one plant from Glass Box Tropicals, and the actual frogs. Going to have some D. Auratus Campana for this tank

106_1815 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

you should add something leafy to spread across the ground and the background! It looks kind of barren. Rocks look great tho!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Those tillis will just melt with no circulating air...and would prefer to be mounted vertically for better drainage...I've never had luck with them in an enclosed fanless viv...


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Yeah I been having a hard time finding a good plant to put in my background. I was thinking of putting some wondering jew. But I have read posts about how some people didn't like that plant. I will try to find something else to put in there.

I did add some more plants that I had growing in my first tank. It's not much, but it does help. I also made some moss stew. Shag, Sheet, and mood moss, grinded up in a blender then placed against the background. Hope this works.

Thanks for the info Judy. I was thinking of ordering more of those Tillandsias. But now I will just wait to see how they will make it.

Here are some new pics.

106_1827 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1821 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1822 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1824 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1828 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1829 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

106_1831 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
I think the one build running between tanks turned out good.

106_1832 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
I will be adding coconut huts also of course. If I got enough room I will add some cork bark tubes.
I'm up for any ideas, and I can handle criticism


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

This is my first time using the Sherman vent design. I know a lot of people use it, and works great. My only question now is.

My humidity don't get very high. I'm using the exo terra electronic Hygro/temp gauge. I got 2 of them, One reads 55%, and the other says 65%. I put a piece of plastic wrap on the top. Maybe the vents are too big. The vent on top is 2" wide.

I'm spraying everyday, 2 times a day, 30 seconds at a time. I don't see much condensation. But the background stays wet, and I see water droplets from the mist all the time.

I'm super excited to introduce these frogs to their new home. This is my last obstacle.


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

kevin575 said:


> This is my first time using the Sherman vent design. I know a lot of people use it, and works great. My only question now is.
> 
> My humidity don't get very high. I'm using the exo terra electronic Hygro/temp gauge. I got 2 of them, One reads 55%, and the other says 65%. I put a piece of plastic wrap on the top. Maybe the vents are too big. The vent on top is 2" wide.
> 
> ...


I think there are probably small spots where the humidity is higher. I would up the misting on the tank with 55% and maybe increase the misting in the 65% tank just by a little. Also, I would add some water inside the pods for the frogs to soak in(make sure to seal the pods with silicone b/c they aren't waterproof). REmember that you aren't shooting for 100% humidity, probably not even 90%. 70-80% is a pretty good range IMO.


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

The tanks look really good!

I think this is a tank that would look better with too many plants. You have a lot of area in the background that could use some plants. And heavy plantings will help with the frogs by giving them some cooler areas with slightly higher humidity under the plants. Actually it may help the overall humidity of the viv.


Todd


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. Weirdly enough I had both of the hygrometers in one tank, next to each other, and was getting the 65% and 55%. But I think my problem might have been from having them towards the front. I placed the probe on the background and it shot up to 77%. So I'm guessing it's good to go. 
The reason I was just doing one tank is cause I don't got the frogs for the other tank. The left tank is going to have Super Blues, and the right tank will have Campana. 

I put a few of the Super Blues in the tank. It's soo awesome to see froglets get into a new tank. They are very active. I just hate to see them fall. One of them just keeps taking the beating. But is getting the hang of it. Jumping from one ledge to the next.

I will do more research to find a good climbing plant, for the background. I got some Lance Leaf in there right now.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Here is a few pics. I hope you like them, granted I need a better camera.


106_1839 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
I really like how the rock forms little ponds.

106_1842 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
This is the guy that was climbing a lot.

106_1844 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
And finally 2 of them just hanging out on the ledges.

106_1850 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

YAY!!!! 

I love pretty frog pics


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## Dartfrogfreak (Jun 22, 2005)

I love watching frogs explore their new homes!

Good luck with them.



Todd


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