# Skinny Azureus adult



## narnythegreat (Jul 29, 2019)

I have an azureus frog who is already isolated in a viv. He's always been really really shy and hard to get a good look at.

Today when I saw him I saw how really really skinny he is and I think most of his food is escaping from his viv before he can eat it. 

I feed using all the vitamins A, Cal, Cal +, multi ect. I have seen him eating I just think his current viv has to many openings allowing FF's to get out. I am going to fix this once I figure out a good hospital holding viv.

Since he is eating and chasing food I think I just need to move him to a smaller enclosure with limited hiding space so that I can actually view him eating and make sure that he is not having to search to much for his food.

So I am wondering what container size to put him in. I have a 128 ounce container that I use for my springtails I can swap out and make a make shift hospital but I didnt know if that would be a good enough size for his movement. 

Thoughts?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Too small is not good

Neither is limited or no hides

Both will engender too much stress

You're going to have to feed smaller amounts but more often. Try a small dish of FF larvae as well.

I suspect you may have other issues - husbandry or health. Hard to say with a long detailed accounting.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Agree with Philsuma. More stress will make things worse.

People have had luck with feeding stations, too.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Basic Frog Problem Questionnaire Template:

answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste)

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ?

2. What are your Temperatures -Day and Night - Highs and lows ? Are the enclosure lights too hot ?

3. What is the Humidity like ? - Percentage or guesstimate. What type of Water are you using ? Describe your tank/enclosure and it's lid or top.

4. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it ? What superfine powdered supplements are you using and are they fresh ?

5. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently ? Tankmates / other frogs ? 

6. Any type of behaviour you would consider 'odd' ?

7. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays ect near the tank ?

8. Can you take pictures of EVERYTHING ? The frogs, the enclosure ? Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Were there fecals done


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## narnythegreat (Jul 29, 2019)

Philsuma said:


> Basic Frog Problem Questionnaire Template:
> 
> answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste)
> 
> 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ?


0.0.1
Is an azureus d. tinctorius 
I have had it since October. 
It was a rescue situation. 



Philsuma said:


> 2. What are your Temperatures -Day and Night - Highs and lows ? Are the enclosure lights too hot ?


The current temp at the top of the viv is around 71 degrees F.

My house temperatures do not go above 73 so the swing is from 69° F to 73° F the lights are very mild. 



Philsuma said:


> 3. What is the Humidity like ? - Percentage or guesstimate. What type of Water are you using ? Describe your tank/enclosure and it's lid or top.


The humidity ranges from 70% to 99%
The water is filtered bottle water. TDS around 50ppm.

The tank is a 12x12x18. I housed him in a larger vivarium with 4 other azureus frogs when I brought them home but he ALWAYS hid. I almost never saw him so I moved him to ensure he could eat. I got 5 total at the time of rescue and the other 4 had paired themselves off and always were eating. This little guy was lucky to get a few.

The lid is screen with a plastic covering. The back screen is open for ventilation as is the front vent at the door.




Philsuma said:


> 4. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it ? What superfine powdered supplements are you using and are they fresh ?


I feed him hydei FF's. 
I use vit A, cal, cal+, and a multi. Vit A is monthly cal is every other feeding, the cal + I use every other week alternating with the multi vit. None of my vits are older than 5 months so maybe they need replacement but I keep them refrigerated so I dont think so yet.




Philsuma said:


> 5. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently ? Tankmates / other frogs ?


This guy is kept by himself. 




Philsuma said:


> 6. Any type of behaviour you would consider 'odd' ?


Well, he hides all the time. I mean, I have citronella tincs and the azureus and they are all out almost all day. This guy I am lucky to see him once a week. I have always thought that was strange. I was going to wait until I could sex him to possibly upgrade his viv and get him a tank mate. I thought maybe that would help him feel safer idk.



Philsuma said:


> 7. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays ect near the tank ?


No. I have never handled them by hand. He eats hes just so shy I feel like if the bugs dont go under the plants he wont eat. I have started feeding him every day in the Hope's to fatten him up, but I can't see progress in the current tank because he never comes out for me to see him.




Philsuma said:


> 8. Can you take pictures of EVERYTHING ? The frogs, the enclosure ? Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help.


I will add some pictures.


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## narnythegreat (Jul 29, 2019)

Rain_Frog said:


> Were there fecals done


No I haven't done that yet. Idk if I will even be able to under the current pandemic situation.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

excellent answer and everything seems ok - nothing stands out.

I think that frog was 'not sturdy' as a large percentage of frogs and animals for that matter, are. It was going downhill and this was augmented by all the other tankmates. 

Fortunately, I think you may have got to it in time. Separation was paramount. 

Tincs in general, should not be kept in groups. Maybe a 2.1 or 3.1 but 4 or 5 in the same enclosure is not really safe IMO.

Temps seem ok and could go a tiny bit higher and probably will with the warmer season ahead. Good.

I would lightly mist and keep providing numerous hides - coco huts and large magnolia leave or similar. Good plant growth is important to hold in the humidity as well. Allow the frog to hide.

Always dust and I would switch to smaller melanogaster - no HUGE reason other than smaller may be better to catch and swallow. Drop a few frogs directly near where it is hiding and avoid a large amount. Feed small amounts be more frequently - like every 2 or three days.


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## narnythegreat (Jul 29, 2019)

These are some images of Jules and his enclosure. The painters tape is for trying to keep the flies inside his vivariums. I was noticing they were walking right out so I put the tape yesterday. I will be upgrading his viv here very soon anyway. I just need to know how to handle this current situation.


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## narnythegreat (Jul 29, 2019)

I just added some more cork to the front to offer some more hiding places. Idk where my Magnolia leaves are just this second and I'm cooking dinner so I put them in there. Maybe that will help him come forward to get more FFs. Might help him feel more comfortable.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

just double check that the light and housing isn't too hot - directing heat into the enclosure.


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## Johanovich (Jan 23, 2017)

If you're able to get your hands on some wingless (not flightless, without actual wings) D. melanogaster, that might help here. They have a tendency to not immediately go for higher ground to try to escape, in my experience they tend to linger around the spot where you dropped them for over a day. They also appear smaller to your frogs due to the lack of wings so that might also encourage feeding.


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## Organics (Jan 17, 2020)

Johanovich said:


> If you're able to get your hands on some wingless (not flightless, without actual wings) D. melanogaster, that might help here. They have a tendency to not immediately go for higher ground to try to escape, in my experience they tend to linger around the spot where you dropped them for over a day. They also appear smaller to your frogs due to the lack of wings so that might also encourage feeding.



I find a small slice of banana also achieves this result as well. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Gadbery (Feb 14, 2020)

Organics said:


> I find a small slice of banana also achieves this result as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes! i highly suggest putting a small dish with a slice of banana as a feeding station. Id place it close to his favorite hiding spot and feed on it. This way he dosnt have to go far from hiding to feed


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## narnythegreat (Jul 29, 2019)

Thanks everyone. 

I will start putting a banana at the bottom (as long as there are bananas available) and try feeding the malanagasters.


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