# An experimental cure for short toungue syndrome - positive results.



## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't keep dart frogs but I do breed geckos and have a better than average understanding of amphibian care, recently I assumed ownership of several baby toads that were on the point of death due to malnutrition. All of them were suffering from severe short tongue syndrome or Hypovitaminosis A.
I made the difficult decision to euthanise two of them as they were also fatally calcium deficient and were no longer capable of moving under their own power whatsoever due to bendy limbs and were horriby bloated due to bacterial infection as a result of their compromised immune systems.
The rest of them I decided to at least try to save given that they were still able to move under their own power but could not capture prey at all and it was heartbreaking watching them desperately lunging at prey but failing utterly to deploy their tongues. Due to uniquely difficult circumstances as a result of the pandemic it was literally impossible to get them to a specialist vet for appropriate treatement so I felt I had no option but to do what I could for them without professional oversight. 
I read a paper which found that topical application of water soluble vitamin A in the form of retinol was more effective at restoring vitamin A levels in the vital organs than dusting food and given that they were incapable of catching prey at all it seemed this represented the only viable road to recovery. I did not have a source of water soluble vitamin A available to me in time to be of use to the toads other than repashy vitamin A plus which contains retinol as well as carotenes and decided as they would have no chance of survival without intervention that it was worth risking a less than ideal approach to try and save them.
I began dissolving a small amount of repashy vitamin A plus in water and applying a few drops every other day to the toads backs with a pipette as well as offering dusted flies daily. I was of course concerned that the other ingredients could potentially be harmful when applied in such a manner but the certainty of death if I took no action seemed to justify the risk and I watched closely for any signs that the treatment was increasing the animals suffering. One toad did pass away during the course of this treatment however none exhibited any reaction at all to the application of the drops although initially they remained lethargic and unable to feed.
I am pleased to report that after only a week of this treatment ALL of the toads began showing increased vitality and now after two weeks every single one of them has regained the use of its tongue and has begun feeding on dusted fruit flies and tiny baby soldier fly larvae. I am totally convinced that the topical application of vitamin A plus is responsible for restoring their ability to feed and while their road to recovery continues - all the remaining specimens are gaining weight and moving around actively seeking out food.
Of seven toads, two were euthanised by freezing. Of the five remaining that received the topical applications of vitamin A plus, one perished within 3 days, and the remaining four now appear to be gaining weight and are on their way towards a full recovery.
The toads had been raised from tadpoles by someone with good intentions but who was ignroant of their dietary requirements.
I know that many of you will disapprove of this experiment given the risks involved but you must take my word for it that obtaining proffessional care for them was completely impossible under the circumstances. I wish that I had a more precise and scientific report on my 'protocol' for you but I feel that the information is potentially useful and worth sharing here anyway as I know that short tongue syndrome has beeen discussed many times before on DB.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

How Excellent.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

What was the ratio of dissolved Vitamin A Plus to water?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Sometimes questions like that can put a person sharing on the spot, because it comes close to informally prescribing a dosage. 🤜🤛


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Kmc said:


> Sometimes questions like that can put a person sharing on the spot, because it comes close to informally prescribing a dosage. 🤜🤛


I think in this case, it's self-evident this was a 'shotgun' approach in exceptional and difficult circumstances, so it's not like I'm holding Louis up to veterinary medicine standards.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Thank you for sharing this.

Only to pass on information to future readers, and not to be judgmental of any past actions, I must point out that euthanizing ectotherms by freezing is not acceptable under US standards, as ectotherms are thought to remain conscious until the CNS freezes, but only after severe tissue damage has occurred.

A PDF of the 2020 AVMA Euthanasia guidelines can be downloaded here:



https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/2020-01/2020-Euthanasia-Final-1-17-20.pdf


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Thank you for sharing this.
> 
> Only to pass on information to future readers, and not to be judgmental of any past actions, I must point out that euthanizing ectotherms by freezing is not acceptable under US standards, as ectotherms are thought to remain conscious until the CNS freezes, but only after severe tissue damage has occurred.
> 
> ...


Interesting read...and I'm happy my method of dispatch is approved there! Without getting into detail, I always found the simpler method was always the best.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Yes i know, its just something that is sometimes followed in public formats.

Only meant in helpful spirit.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

I knew that some elements of this post would prove to be controversial and I hope that people can learn from my mistakes as well as my success. 
With regards to the freezing, I again took the decision based on necessity and limited options. Lacking chemicals to hand that might otherwise have been used to humanely euthanise an amphibian I opted for freezing based on this research from 2015
 Is “cooling then freezing” a humane way to kill amphibians and reptiles?
Although I freely admit this was not an ideal solution I placed them into a freezer that wasn't in use and turned on the power in order to gradually cool them below freezing. I sincerely hope they didn't suffer unecessarily, and that I'm never in the position of having to euthanise an amphibian again - but what would be the best alternative method if a scenario that necessitates it occurs in the future?

The 'dose' I prepared was half a teaspoon of repashy vitamin A plus dissolved in 100ml of distilled water and then allowed to settle. I avoided drawing up any of the non water soluble ingredients with the pipette. Calcium carbonate seemed to concentrate on the surface film whist the chlorella powder and other ingredients settled out. Each toad received five drops on their back every other day and was rinsed with clean water between 'doses'. I must reiterate that this was a measure of absolute last resort, under any other circumstances I would have sought professional help or been able to mix a far more precise and consistent dose of pure vitamin A based on what has proved effective in the literature.
I'm only reporting that this appears to have worked under desperate circumstances, not encouraging people to view it as the proper treatment for short tongue syndrome which ideally I'm sure we all agree should be prevented rather than cured.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Louis said:


> I knew that some elements of this post would prove to be controversial and I hope that people can learn from my mistakes as well as my success.
> With regards to the freezing, I again took the decision based on necessity and limited options. Lacking chemicals to hand that might otherwise have been used to humanely euthanise an amphibian I opted for freezing based on this research from 2015
> Is “cooling then freezing” a humane way to kill amphibians and reptiles?
> Although I freely admit this was not an ideal solution I placed them into a freezer that wasn't in use and turned on the power in order to gradually cool them below freezing. I sincerely hope they didn't suffer unecessarily, and that I'm never in the position of having to euthanise an amphibian again - but what would be the best alternative method if a scenario that necessitates it occurs in the future?


No judgement from me in this case. Sometimes a person has to do the best they can in the circumstances, and it certainly looks as if you researched before proceeding. I just wanted clarity for future readers, many of whom wouldn't give the options as much thought as you did.

Oragel (oral anesthetic gel for human use, available in drug stores) generously applied ventrally is acceptable. In the absence of even that, blunt force trauma to the brain, followed by decapitation, is acceptable (this is how I euthanize lizards and snakes).


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Its only natural to lean toward a distal approach but well executed manual euthanasia is the best. Better than co2. 

The oral gel way with small frogs seems good, tho ive not done.

I think Ed mentioned something along similiar lines to what i broached. I have been in positions where i was uneasy with contexts wayward potentiality, with dosage specifics with one on one exceptions a given. Esp with someone elses animal.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Mostly because of ppl potentially being petty and crazy and not following directions! Can you dig it?😅


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I think technology has fallen short re phone science. There should be different fonts freindlyish softly roundish ones to provide emotive subtext and others too. Sensitized fonts.

On a tangential note i recently recieved my fresh Repashy supps order, and this post has further enhanced my trust in its viability.

Excellent work to be sure.


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## Jim Bob Jones (Jan 20, 2021)

When I found one of my Garden frogs mauled by my cat I used a trowel to the spine and it seemed nice and quick. The cat swifty found herself thrown into the pond and she never touched one or let me catch her doing it since.


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## EricLo26 (Jan 9, 2021)

Sounds like what Dendrozone did to a group of his P. Terribilis a while back. But instead of drops on their back, he did baths of vitamin water.


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

EricLo26 said:


> Sounds like what Dendrozone did to a group of his P. Terribilis a while back. But instead of drops on their back, he did baths of vitamin water.


I remember watching that. That seemed to have good results as well.


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## Louis (Apr 23, 2014)

EricLo26 said:


> Sounds like what Dendrozone did to a group of his P. Terribilis a while back. But instead of drops on their back, he did baths of vitamin water.


Do you know what kind of vitamin water he used? or have link to wherever this played out?


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## EricLo26 (Jan 9, 2021)

Louis said:


> Do you know what kind of vitamin water he used? or have link to wherever this played out?


Yeah, in the video he used some Repashy Vit. A and Calcium plus. Here's the YouTube link: 



Time stamp: 2:00


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

If some clean smooth pebbles or even a piece of romaine was put in the container, it would encourage them to relax in the soak more.

It would also help to keep them separate while they soak, they would be calmer. Reducing the incite/fight/stress against a soak finesses its therapeutic value. Better coverage, absorption, duration. The romaine is like moss or leaves for soaks only it keeps the solution clear, ie; doesnt add anything.


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