# ABG/Tree Fern Fiber Questions (What is the State of the Union?)



## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Drthsideous' question on ABG got me to thinking. I don't use ABG much for my vivs anymore, but I seem to have patched together the idea that the tree fern fiber that is currently available is not the same as what we used to use in ABG. I have been told it is a more flexible or soft fiber. Does it break down any quicker than the original version of tree fern fiber? If that's the case, is the ABG sold today going to have the longevity that it used to? Have any of the current modifications to the original ABG recipe been around and been tested long enough to say that they work as well as original-recipe ABG?

When I talk about original ABG, there is what I am thinking of:

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/63915-truth-about-abg-mix.html

I might be misinformed on the tree fern fiber info above. Please correct if that's the case.

Mark


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## DPfarr (Nov 24, 2017)

I feel like tree fern you’re talking about is the New Zealand stuff. Much like this:
https://acadiansupply.com/products/tree-fern/

I don’t know if the longevity is really an issue compared to the South American tree fern that is harder. The issue is moisture retention.

The harder stiff tree fern can still be bought. My friend at Flori Culture has it and creates ABG with it. 
https://flori-culture.com/products/tree-fern-fiber


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## kimcmich (Jan 17, 2016)

Greetings,

When one says "tree fern fiber" they might mean 2 different things:

1) Tree fern _roots_: All tree ferns (South American or Aus/NZ) produce thick roots along the lower trunk and surrounding the base of the fern. This is the tough, dark material called "tree fern bark" when sold in intact slabs and, when chopped/ground, is the material Encyclia is referring to.

2) Tree fern _fur_: Some tree ferns produce a thick covering of "fur" as a protective covering for the growth apex. It is often a coppery lighter brown color. This material is made of short, very fine filaments very much like hair.

The price of tree fern roots/bark has certainly gone up. In response, there seems to be increased offering of mixtures of fiber and fur (since both are made of "fibers") or just fur being sold as "tree fern fiber".

The fur seems to be a tough material in terms of decomposition but it's so fine that it doesn't provide the scaffolding like the tougher fibers of the roots so it doesn't help with aerating or prevent compaction when used in the substrate.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I recently bought a few bags of ABG from Glass Box Tropicals, which is the only place I've ever bought from. I think he switched to the softer species since I bought last, and I immediately noticed and am a bit skeptical of it working as well -- the 'scaffolding' that kimcmich mentions is definitely missing.


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## Tinc Tank (Jun 29, 2019)

This is the mix that I have been using for the past year and a half:
1 part peat moss
1 part crushed charcoal
2 parts fine orchid bark (Exo-Terra Forest Bark)
2 parts hand-shredded sphagnum moss (not super finely milled)
1 part tree fern fiber (New Zealand Fernwood brand)

I have been using the New Zealand variety of tree fern fiber (via Josh's Frogs). To be honest, I had some doubts in the beginning, but after over a year it is still going strong. Even though it is moist, it stays rigid and keeps its shape. It doesn't just compress and go flat. My substrate still has lots of air pockets and is still fluffy. It definitely isn't compacted and it drains really well. In my opinion, I think it is an acceptable alternative.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I finally managed to get a bag of each kind of tree fern fiber for comparison.

Josh's sell New Zealand fiber (presumably rebranded Fernwood) -- the soft stuff:
https://www.joshsfrogs.com/josh-s-frogs-tree-fern-fiber-substrate-10-quarts.html

This looks and feels almost like coco husk shred (Eco Earth), but more coarse than Eco Earth. It is very soft, and compresses easily (in hand: I haven't tested it in a mix). The 10 qt bag did not (by eyeballing it) contain 250% of the volume of the 1 gallon bag of SA fiber from GBT -- again, it compresses.

Glassbox Tropicals sells South American -- the little stick kind:
https://www.glassboxtropicals.com/Fine-Tree-Fern-Fiber-1-Gallon-p/finetree.htm

This looks and feels like sticks. They are very hard, and do not compress in hand.

Pics from L to R: both; South American from GBT; New Zealand from JF.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Nice, SM! The little sticks are what I am used to calling tree fern fiber. I think the soft stuff is not the same and I am guessing it won't perform the same in ABG over time. Anybody have experience with the new stuff?

Mark


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Encyclia said:


> Anybody have experience with the new stuff?
> 
> Mark


That's what Tinc Tank is talking about in the post above mine (the NZ Fernwood brand.


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## Fernwood (Nov 7, 2020)

Encyclia said:


> Drthsideous' question on ABG got me to thinking. I don't use ABG much for my vivs anymore, but I seem to have patched together the idea that the tree fern fiber that is currently available is not the same as what we used to use in ABG. I have been told it is a more flexible or soft fiber. Does it break down any quicker than the original version of tree fern fiber? If that's the case, is the ABG sold today going to have the longevity that it used to? Have any of the current modifications to the original ABG recipe been around and been tested long enough to say that they work as well as original-recipe ABG?
> 
> When I talk about original ABG, there is what I am thinking of:
> 
> ...


Hi Mark , I am the manufacturer of Fernwood Tree fern fibre from New Zealand. firstly our tree fern is harvested under strict government sustainable rules and we are only allowed to harvest 10% of what grows on private land . Our Tree fern last a very very long time . We know this after discovering very old tree fern trunks that had been pushed over by bulldozers 60 years before , we know this from forestry planting records. When we cut the old trunks the fibre strucker was just as if it had been cut months before . We have orchid growers who have use our fern fibre and have not had to repot for just over 5 years so that about say it all , very stable and dosen't decompose for a very very long time


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Fernwood said:


> Hi Mark , I am the manufacturer of Fernwood Tree fern fibre from New Zealand. firstly our tree fern is harvested under strict government sustainable rules and we are only allowed to harvest 10% of what grows on private land . Our Tree fern last a very very long time . We know this after discovering very old tree fern trunks that had been pushed over by bulldozers 60 years before , we know this from forestry planting records. When we cut the old trunks the fibre strucker was just as if it had been cut months before . We have orchid growers who have use our fern fibre and have not had to repot for just over 5 years so that about say it all , very stable and dosen't decompose for a very very long time


That's great information, Fernwood. Thanks for taking the time to post it. It sounds like the stuff will last and that's a good thing. I am still interested in seeing if the more flexible fibers do the same job in our substrate mixes that the old, more rigid stuff did. Worst case, I am guessing we have to re-work the recipe a bit and I would still include your fibers in there. Can you comment on kimcmich's post above? Are the differences between old school, stiff tree fern fiber and your stuff primarily based on the part of the tree used or is it because the two are from different tree fern species?

Thanks!

Mark


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Encyclia said:


> That's great information, Fernwood. Thanks for taking the time to post it. It sounds like the stuff will last and that's a good thing. I am still interested in seeing if the more flexible fibers do the same job in our substrate mixes that the old, more rigid stuff did. Worst case, I am guessing we have to re-work the recipe a bit and I would still include your fibers in there. Can you comment on kimcmich's post above? Are the differences between old school, stiff tree fern fiber and your stuff primarily based on the part of the tree used or is it because the two are from different tree fern species?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mark


I'm using the Fernwood stuff in my "ABG" mix right now, so hopefully I can tell you in 10 years


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Chris S said:


> I'm using the Fernwood stuff in my "ABG" mix right now, so hopefully I can tell you in 10 years


Dang it. Yet another reason to go ahead and finish up that time machine I am building in the basement.

Mark


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## Fernwood (Nov 7, 2020)

Encyclia said:


> That's great information, Fernwood. Thanks for taking the time to post it. It sounds like the stuff will last and that's a good thing. I am still interested in seeing if the more flexible fibers do the same job in our substrate mixes that the old, more rigid stuff did. Worst case, I am guessing we have to re-work the recipe a bit and I would still include your fibers in there. Can you comment on kimcmich's post above? Are the differences between old school, stiff tree fern fiber and your stuff primarily based on the part of the tree used or is it because the two are from different tree fern species?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mark


Hay Mark, 

More than happy to help.

Our Native tree fern here in New Zealand Dicksonia-spp is almost the same structure as these two products used back in the 60s, osmonda fern fiber and Dicksonia sellowiana a tree fern from South America which was so popular that it was harvested to a point it is now protected.

The Tree fern fiber supplied into the USA market over the past 20 or so years is harvested from South America from the Cyathea-spp and is completely different.
Firstly Cyathea-spp world wide is protected under CITES so a permit to export/import is required so that says this Tree fern is under threat. For the Dicksonia-spp from all countries world wide except new Zealand , it is illegal to harvest and export .

So New Zealand is the fern capital of the world and our Government allows our Company "Fernwood Products (NZ) Limited to harvest under very strict rules via permits in a sustainable manner  , so dont worry about over harvesting because we are looking after our natural resource very carefully  .

It is simple , Our Dicksonia-spp Tree fern fiber is still very strong and springy but also has fine hair tuffs all over the stick like roots , this allows it to hold moisture very well unlike the Cyathea-spp tree fern fiber that is simply like small sticks and cant hold moisture for very long. Most people that use our product use it as a natural terrarium flooring by itself with out mixing it with other products , it is the perfect from nature fibrous natural well drained non bogging with a very natural smell you will find in market . for more information. www.fernwoodnz.com or instagram: @fernwood_nz

Hope the above help with a better understanding of our sustainable products from down under (( 
Alan Ford-Fernwood NZ.


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## Encyclia (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks very much, Alan. That is extremely helpful. I would like to try your tree fern by itself as a substrate. It never occurred to me that it could be used without the addition of other ingredients.

Mark


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Fernwood said:


> [...]We have orchid growers who have use our fern fibre and have not had to repot for just over 5 years so that about say it all , very stable and dosen't decompose for a very very long time


Thanks for weighing in with some background on your product. I've just used a combination of panels and substrate for the first time as a background for a larger vivarium, and will be growing plants on it. The structural integrity of the panels makes them easy to work with and it's nice to know that's likely to continue!


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