# Fresh Field collected pumilio???



## dartsami (Oct 30, 2006)

Not even trying to hide it. 

kingsnake.com Classifieds: STRAWBERRY DART FROGS $65!


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## Jadenkisses (Jun 9, 2010)

Yes, this ad has been on kingsnake for quite some time - I think there's another DB thread about this ad.


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

ya, a few other boards as well.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

yeah its a guy out of Florida,He has a bunch of them


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## D3monic (Feb 8, 2010)

not to mention those guys are idiots. I want to punch them for how lame thier videos are. What creeps.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

while the seller is obviously, not someone i would buy from, based solely on my observations of his ads, you all have to remember that almost ALL pumilio are WC, which means that they were fresh field collected animals too. many come in through FL as did MANY of the frogs we all hold in our possession. man creek, bastimentos, eldorado, cauchero, escudo, have all come in to the US in the past few years. unfortunately there are a number of people who buy these KS fresh WC with no idea of how to care for them, but dont condemn the act of selling wild pumilio (which from my understanding is totally legal with the proper permits) for the pet trade, thats silly. many keepers dedicate themselves to this species, and i hope to see more new morphs come in from panama...

james


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

D3monic said:


> not to mention those guys are idiots. I want to punch them for how lame thier videos are. What creeps.


I just watched the video attached to the ad. Am I the only one going WTF!? What a clown that tool is.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

fleshfrombone said:


> I just watched the video attached to the ad. Am I the only one going WTF!? What a clown that tool is.


Haha don't worry many of us already went "WTF!?" before... Links to his videos got posted somewhere on the board before... Like a month or two ago I think


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## cheezus_2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

"tool" doesn't even touch the surface of what that guy is..... i'd kick him in the teeth if i could....hopefully he feels good bout himself....


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## sgvreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

hahaha. That guy is awesome. He put a smile on my face.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

james67 said:


> while the seller is obviously, not someone i would buy from, based solely on my observations of his ads, you all have to remember that almost ALL pumilio are WC, which means that they were fresh field collected animals too. many come in through FL as did MANY of the frogs we all hold in our possession. man creek, bastimentos, eldorado, cauchero, escudo, have all come in to the US in the past few years. unfortunately there are a number of people who buy these KS fresh WC with no idea of how to care for them, but dont condemn the act of selling wild pumilio (which from my understanding is totally legal with the proper permits) for the pet trade, thats silly. many keepers dedicate themselves to this species, and i hope to see more new morphs come in from panama...
> 
> james


First I'll just echo what James said. A lot of people here have bought wc pumilio, and as long as they are legal, the populations can handle it and the frogs are shipped and treated well I have little issue with it. 

And I'll add...People have been awfully harsh towards this guy...chances are he is just naive and not evil or something. Yes the voice and stuff is irritating but I can see a lot of people not knowing better and thinking the video is cute and/or funny...no accounting for taste  Chances are its just an ill conceived but benign marketing ploy (except for the handling of the animal). If people are so concerned perhaps they should politely educate the guy that handling frogs is stressful and should be avoided when possible and done correctly when it is not. Maybe they could mention it is in the animal's and the customer's best interest that they are treated upon arrival and that many interested in these animals would look upon his practices unfavorably instead of bashing/making fun of him in an open forum and possibly hurting his livelihood not to mention the guy's feelings. People hide behind their online anonymity saying and doing a lot of things they wouldn't in person, often forgetting or not caring the person on the other side of the computer is real too. 

If he is an evil willful abuser of animals ok, then bash away I have no sympathy but do we know that? Is it right to act as if he is without such knowledge? Not all pet store owners are evil, and many get into the business because they like animals. It would be nice if everyone of them educated themselves extensively on every animal they sold but sadly that isn't the case. Some though are willing to learn as they go at least...especially if people approach them in a respectful manner and not in a mocking hateful way. Maybe those mocking him and being self righteous would find their time better spent educating him...though maybe for some that wouldn't be as rewarding.

My 2 cents.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There isn't any data that shows the populations can withstand the continued collection in the numbers that are coming out so we can't really can't say if it is or isn't sustainable. 

With that said, I have to say that thier marketing model is pretty amazing if it is getting this many people to conduct what is in effect free advertising for them. Even if everyone is saying how stupid thier videos are etc.. they are getting word out that they have the frogs...
Something you all should think about.... 

Ed


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## Eric Walker (Aug 22, 2009)

I think that is dead on ed.


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

Ed said:


> There isn't any data that shows the populations can withstand the continued collection in the numbers that are coming out so we can't really can't say if it is or isn't sustainable.
> 
> With that said, I have to say that thier marketing model is pretty amazing if it is getting this many people to conduct what is in effect free advertising for them. Even if everyone is saying how stupid thier videos are etc.. they are getting word out that they have the frogs...
> Something you all should think about....
> ...



Ed, 

From everything I have read, Pumilio supposedly are very common in preffered habitas,especially in disturbed habitats like man made coconut plantations. They seem to be a "weed species" similar to what I saw first hand with Panther Chameleons and certain types of day geckos in Madagascar. Have you heard any diffrent on your end? I'm not questioning, just looking for additional info.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Roman,

Ability to adapt to disturbed habitat can't be used as an ruler to determine if the current harvesting standards are sustainable. The density of pumilio in an area is determined by the density of egg deposition sites. In areas where there are a lot of resources the population can be very high however areas relatively close by can have very low populations and may act as a population sink. A fale impression of sustainability can occur as animals migrate back out of the marginal habitat into the more optimal area from which they are collected With some species, it can take a number of years before a decline is seen in the population. 
For discussions on resource use in this species see 

Population differences in female resource abundance, adult sex ratio, and male mating success in Dendrobates pumilio -- Pröhl 13 (2): 175 -- Behavioral Ecology 

SpringerLink - Journal Article

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ed said:


> There isn't any data that shows the populations can withstand the continued collection in the numbers that are coming out so we can't really can't say if it is or isn't sustainable.
> 
> With that said, I have to say that thier marketing model is pretty amazing if it is getting this many people to conduct what is in effect free advertising for them. Even if everyone is saying how stupid thier videos are etc.. they are getting word out that they have the frogs...
> Something you all should think about....
> ...


That is my fear Ed...I would like to see more controlled export practices like I've mentioned in a few threads for most animals, where people are required to jump through more hoops or something before they are allowed to export/import these. I'm not sure exactly what, but I'm not a huge fan of the way its done now with people dealing in bulk and a large number of species. I bought some L. Williamsi Geckos when they started being imported regularly, I didn't really expect the imports to keep up like they have given my understanding that the animals come from one small area of endangered forest but they keep comming...I can only wonder how long that practice will be sustainable.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Dendro Dave said:


> First I'll just echo what James said. A lot of people here have bought wc pumilio, and as long as they are legal, the populations can handle it and the frogs are shipped and treated well I have little issue with it.
> 
> And I'll add...People have been awfully harsh towards this guy...chances are he is just naive and not evil or something. Yes the voice and stuff is irritating but I can see a lot of people not knowing better and thinking the video is cute and/or funny...no accounting for taste  Chances are its just an ill conceived but benign marketing ploy (except for the handling of the animal). If people are so concerned perhaps they should politely educate the guy that handling frogs is stressful and should be avoided when possible and done correctly when it is not. Maybe they could mention it is in the animal's and the customer's best interest that they are treated upon arrival and that many interested in these animals would look upon his practices unfavorably instead of bashing/making fun of him in an open forum and possibly hurting his livelihood not to mention the guy's feelings. People hide behind their online anonymity saying and doing a lot of things they wouldn't in person, often forgetting or not caring the person on the other side of the computer is real too.
> 
> ...


If he doesn't know what he's doing he shouldn't import frogs. I agree several pumilio have been imported legally and many users have bought them in the past. Maybe I'm idealistic but I like to believe these people bought their WC stock from reputable dealers that have done this in the past responsibly. I don't think he's evil, I think he's a tool that has no business in this business until he educates himself on the subject. If this thread hurts his livelihood and/or feelings he should grow a thicker skin and learn appropriate techniques for handling his animals and pitching them on the open market. When you start selling animals you're a businessman and business is ruthless. Your sentiment isn't lost on me but this isn't a case of cast thy first stone. This is a case of a moron in over his head trying to sell animals he doesn't understand or care about. I completely agree that most people hide behind their internet name but I'm not one of them. Ask a few people on here that actually know/met me. Or come to microcosm, make my acquaintance, and bask in my magnanimity (I can't even type that with a straight face). One more thing, awesome They Live quote.


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## mantisdragon91 (Jun 2, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> I bought some L. Williamsi Geckos when they started being imported regularly, I didn't really expect the imports to keep up like they have given my understanding that the animals come from one small area of endangered forest but they keep comming...I can only wonder how long that practice will be sustainable.


Not long get them while you can. They are an amazing display animal and really prolific with minimal care.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Dendro Dave said:


> That is my fear Ed...I would like to see more controlled export practices like I've mentioned in a few threads for most animals, where people are required to jump through more hoops or something before they are allowed to export/import these. I'm not sure exactly what, but I'm not a huge fan of the way its done now with people dealing in bulk and a large number of species. I bought some L. Williamsi Geckos when they started being imported regularly, I didn't really expect the imports to keep up like they have given my understanding that the animals come from one small area of endangered forest but they keep comming...I can only wonder how long that practice will be sustainable.


Hi Dave,

Ideally if Panama had set export quotas, this wouldn't be a problem... however Panama has chosen to not set export quotas which means that they can literally export them until there are none left... 

Ed


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