# best place to buy excelsior?



## audioandroid

anyone know of a good place to buy bulk excelsior online?


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## widmad27

Ed's fly meat, there is a link in the link section. But I guess that is not really in bulk thats all i can think of.

Dan 
Widmad27
0.0.2 D. tinctorius (Powder Blue)
0.0.3 D. leucomelas
0.0.2 D. auratus (Green and Bronze)


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## kyle1745

You can also pick it up at craft stores...


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## widmad27

http://www.excellentexcelsior.com/products.html

This is also a good place they specialize in solely excelsior

Dan


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## Catfur

http://www.papermart.com/templates/21-0-15.htm

A bale will last you a LOOOOONG time.


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## audioandroid

i saw that papermart one when i did a google search. have you bought from them before?


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## kyle1745

How big is a bale? I've been thinking about moving back to excelsior.


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## Catfur

A bale of the fine excelsior (which is much coarser than the craft excelsior you usually find at the craft store), is about 3' x 18" x 10", and is very compacted. After over a year and a half at 12 cultures a week, I am about 1/3 of the way through my bale.


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## _Enix_

I wanted to get a bale, but living in an apartment, wasnt sure if it would be ideal. 

I just order from Ed's. They have large bags stuffed full. Lasts me months, granted, I'm only caring for 6 frogs. Way better than craftstore/walmart excelsior.


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## kyle1745

I ordered a bail of the "NATURAL COARSE" and will see how it goes. I make a good number of cultures a week so I will see how it lasts. I agree though I think I had better production when I used it before than with coffee filters.


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## audioandroid

so papermart is a legit company and worth using?


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## dmatychuk

Kyle,
I am very interested in the natural course product as well. Will you give us some first thoughts when it comes and you get a chance to see it. Thanks Clayton for the link.


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## Catfur

Just so you people aren't surprised, PaperMart's version of excelsior is packing material (excelsior is primarily used as a cushioning material for packaging). Their fine grade is not very fine at all compared to the stuff you find in the store, it is very coarse, in fact. The coarse grade is extremely thick, stiff fibers, meant for packaging heavy items in crates.


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## kyle1745

So are you saying I should have ordered fine?  I think I have a rough idea what to expect and it should work. If not ill get fine next time...


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## sports_doc

you all got to it sooo quick they are now out of stock :? 

S
DBers really can move the worlds economy :wink:


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## kyle1745

Wow I wonder how many orders they got from this thread.


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## kyle1745

I just wanted to post back on how MUCH excelsior this is... Granted I knew it was a lot but its as big as a bale of hay, and very compressed. Should last me a very long time.


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## Catfur

I warned you...


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## kyle1745

Ok so I made my normal run of cultures today with the new excelsior, and it can be tough to get apart from the bale but after you get some big chunks of its not too bad. One thing I did forget was how much of a mess it makes, but I do think it produces a bunch more ffs than other methods. Ill try to remember to post back in a couple of weeks.


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## elmoisfive

I've found that Excelsior is a pain in the neck to work with (the mess in setting up cultures and the odd falling out of the FF culture into the dusting cup) but it seems to be more reliable and robust compared to coffee filters. 

Bill


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## bluedart

elmoisfive said:


> I've found that Excelsior is a pain in the neck to work with (the mess in setting up cultures and the odd falling out of the FF culture into the dusting cup) but it seems to be more reliable and robust compared to coffee filters.
> 
> Bill


Yeah, I've kind of come to the same conclusion. It definantly produces better yields and is DEFINANTLY more messy. That's why I make cultures right before I pull out the vaccuum. :wink:


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## kyle1745

I had used it in the past and had never found a good source for bulk so switched to coffee filters. I had much better production with Excelsior so we will see how it goes...


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## Steve

Although not a natural source, or biodegradable (but recycleable) i found walmart do a very fine nylon/plastic mesh in the material section. It's like 70c a yard by a yard and a half (about 150 cultures worth). I cut it into strips then scrunch it in the cups, it gives me compareable output to excellsior without the bits falling into the dusting cup.

Steve


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## Scott

I used to use "scrunchies" (the things you use in the tub) unraveled and cut into sections.

But that doesn't help provide a moisture "ballast" (if you know what I mean). It provides larvae staging - but it doesn't help hold moisture.

I'm back to excelsior. It works but I hate the stuff.

s


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## pl259

I used to use "scrunchies" (the things you use in the tub) unraveled and cut into sections. 

Hey Scott, good chatting with you at the NEFG/BJ/AZDR open house this past WE. Nice retic! 

I too tried a couple different plastic netting approaches and found the same lack of moisture buffering to be troublesome. I'm back to coffee filters but with a twist. I'm going to try to add strategically placed coffee stirrers to keep the filters from collapsing into the media. (strategy is TBD)

Another thought I had was a kind of hybrid approach where I'd roll up coffee filters and stick them into the holes of a 1"square plastic netting. Haven't tried that one yet because of the time involved. 

I refuse to do the excelsior thing because of the potential mite/mold issues and hope to find a reusable product at some point.

EricG.NH


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## Scott

Hi Eric,

Glad we got a chance to talk! Very nice meeting you.

The Excelsior we're talking about using on this thread looks *much* better than the crap you get at Wal*Mart (which is what I'm using now - and it stinks). Hopefully it works well.

I've tried coffee filters before - wasn't very happy with them. Remind me next time we have a get together and I'll bring you 10 packages of them (found them on sale one time). 

s


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## kyle1745

So far i'm about a week into my switch back and the culture appear to be doing a bit better.

This stuff is tough, I did get the natural course, but it is much better than the stuff from Walmart I used to get.


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## rozdaboff

I saw the size of the bale of excelsior - and there was no way I wanted to get that much at a time. So I found an Ebay vendor that sold 20# boxes of the stuff. 

It is much thicker and sturdier than the stuff you can get at Michael's or Walmart. Here is a link:

Ebay Excelsior


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## kyle1745

Nice find, but Im set for a bit.


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## Scott

The 20 lb boxes must be pretty large - because the "Paper Mart" bale weighs in at 29 lbs!

ITEM # LBS PER BALE PRICE PER BALE 
80-30-01 29 $52.12

On the other hand, the 20lb (on eBay) was going for roughly $30 shipped. Considering that 29 lbs is going for $52 (before shipping) and the eBay vendor may be the way to go.

Oz - have you ordered? How "large" in volume was the eBay stuff? I've seen a bale of the Paper Mart stuff (rather large). I'm wondering how they compare in volume.

s



rozdaboff said:


> I saw the size of the bale of excelsior - and there was no way I wanted to get that much at a time. So I found an Ebay vendor that sold 20# boxes of the stuff.
> 
> It is much thicker and sturdier than the stuff you can get at Michael's or Walmart. Here is a link:
> 
> Ebay Excelsior


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## rozdaboff

Scott - I did order. The excelsior came in a box about a 21" cube.


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## Scott

Did you see the container they had at Black Jungle? One of the big @ss tupperwares (say, 40 gallons?) full. I'm not sure if this was one bale or not (I think it is), but it seems to be substantially more than 21" cube.

Yet the 21" cube is 20 lbs and the big @ss bale (trademark ) is only 29 lbs?

Something doesn't add up.

s


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## kyle1745

I think a bale is a bit more than 29lbs... Could just be miss information on the website.


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## Scott

That's my thought Kyle - the bale I saw looked much bigger.

s


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## kyle1745

I'll see if I can find the packing slip to see if they weight it. It is the size of a bale of hay and as compressed... A bale of hay is no 29lbs....


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## Scott

Could you tell me the dimensions of your bale as well? I want to make sure what I saw is indeed a bale. I'm pretty sure it is.

Thanks.

s


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## kyle1745

Seems the average weight of a bale of hay is 50lbs:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/onslow/AG/hay/tips.html


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## joshsfrogs

shipping weight was 33 LBS for the bale.


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## joshsfrogs

Hay bales get their weight from the moisture in the bale and hay bales are a lot larger than these bales.


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## rozdaboff

I saw the "bale" at BJ - and that was about 2X more than what I got. But that was the reason I went with the auction instead of the bale - as it would take me years to get through that much.


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## Procrastinating

I've reluctantly gone back to excelsior as well. The mess really bites.

While looking for something else to use I found some plastic mesh discs at WalMart in the craft section. They don't work to culture with, however they are fabulous to "top off" the culture. They fit perfectly on the cups, keep the excelsior in the culture, and slow the flies down getting out so it's much easier to control the volume of flies. The only thing is to be fast enough to get it on the culture after dumping the flies in, I usually squish a few along the edge.

The label reads "Quick Shape Plastic Canvas 4" round". I think they were around $ 1.50 for a package of 10.


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## rozdaboff

Ok - now that I got out my tape measure and had a better chance to look at things...

The box that mine came in was 18" x 18" x 14" (My guesstimate was a little off) and weighed 20#.

Although the Ebay seller has this labeled as "Extra Fine" - in comparing with the pictures from PaperMart - it is the size of their course version.

Hope this helps.


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## *GREASER*

I wish i knew Oz I would have gone in on some with you.


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## sschind

*great deal*

I was going into a hobby lobby to buy a tiny bag for about 2.99 and they wouldn't let me in (too close to closing time) I went to a Steins just up the road and found a bale, a very big bale mind you, one of the 3' long ones they were closing out for $1.00 I should have bought them all but unless I start really needing flies the bale I have will last me 10 years.


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## Murph1908

I found my Excelsior at Michaels. The cashier had no idea what I was talking about, but when I asked the woman working with the flowers, she took me right to it. It is near the Spanish moss, so if the person you ask looks at you like you are crazy when you ask for Excelsior, try the Spanish moss.

I have also heard you can find it at Joanne's.


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## sports_doc

kyle1745 said:


> I ordered a bail of the "NATURAL COARSE" and will see how it goes. I make a good number of cultures a week so I will see how it lasts. I agree though I think I had better production when I used it before than with coffee filters.


Kyle
Time has come for me to order more of this stuff but I think I ordered a bale of fine last time....

How did the coarse work out for you?

vs. fine.

S


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## kyle1745

The coarse was ok, but if I had to order again I would buy the fine. The fine seems to be easier to work with.


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## sports_doc

thats the kind of info I was looking for, thanks...

the fine had a fair amount of loose crumble that you have to shake out each time you make 'balls', so I was hoping you'd say the course was 'fantastic'....but I'll go with the fine again.

Best,
S


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## flyangler18

Here's a more 'user friendly' amount for the majority of us out there 

5lbs of Excelsior

I definitely prefer working with Excelsior over coffee filters any day!


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## Hakkamike

Uline sells fine Excelsior http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_197 ... %20packing I am in Fort Worth and they have a Shipping Center in Dallas which is around a 30 minute drive for me to save the shipping costs  Up-date, I just checked the shipping costs, its just 12.00 for the 25lbs. Is it worth my time and gas to pick it up??????? :?:


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## sports_doc

http://www.papermart.com/templates/23-0-10.htm

wonder about using 3 inch wide rolls, kind of like using coffee filters but I bet it holds up better.


??


S


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## Dancing frogs

That looks like a great idea Shawn, thanks for pointing that out.
The only thing I don't like about my coffee filter cultures is the time to set them up. 
I accordian fold them, fold them in half, stick the fold end in the media...repeat until the filters support each other, takes about 8 minutes a culture, it sucks, but I guess I like it better than having twice as many cultures sitting around.
With that cardboard, you could easily just stick a coil down in there.
I may have to place and order.


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## sports_doc

Dancing frogs said:


> That looks like a great idea Shawn, thanks for pointing that out.
> The only thing I don't like about my coffee filter cultures is the time to set them up.
> I accordian fold them, fold them in half, stick the fold end in the media...repeat until the filters support each other, takes about 8 minutes a culture, it sucks, but I guess I like it better than having twice as many cultures sitting around.
> With that cardboard, you could easily just stick a coil down in there.
> I may have to place and order.


that is what I was thinking, rip off 6-8 inches of the 3 inch wide or 4 inch wide roll and stuff it into the media.

You'll have to give it a try and let me (us) know, as I already purchased another bale of excelcior.

Shawn


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## pl259

Brian,
I've been using coffee filters for about a year now. Here's what I do...

-Take two filters and fold in half. Makes a semi-circle.
-Roll up the long way and twist the bottom. Roll so the top edge spirals down toward the tip. Easier to show then explain. 
-Repeat three more times.

Now here's the trick. I stick in four or five plastic coffee stirrers around the inside and then push in the four filter roll-ups between the stirrers. The stirrers keep the filters from collapsing down into the media.

It's still longer than excelcior, but way less than 8min.


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## sports_doc

yes, but with 40 cx+ a week balling excelcior is even too slow for me... 

I agree your plan sounds like it works well Eric, but perhaps best for <10cx's at a time.?

S


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## Anoleo2

sports_doc said:


> yes, but with 40 cx+ a week balling excelcior is even too slow for me...


And that's why I do half! 8) 

Those corrugated tubes look like a pretty good idea... No more excelsior strands lying around and sticking to my clothes...


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## Corpus Callosum

I'm testing these out, we'll see how they hold up:


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## TonyB

Corpus Callosum said:


> I'm testing these out, we'll see how they hold up:
> 
> I already tried those and they didn't hold up worth a FLIP. Even worse than coffee filters.


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## joshsfrogs

Michael, those things work horribly. They fall apart before the culture starts producing, smell horrible when wet, and when they crumble they cover the media and kill the culture.

I thought they were going to revolutionize fly culturing (low cost, easy, not messy, etc.), but they are worthless.


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## Corpus Callosum

joshsfrogs said:


> Michael, those things work horribly. They fall apart before the culture starts producing, smell horrible when wet, and when they crumble they cover the media and kill the culture.


You're the 3rd person to have said this. Oh well it was worth a try  . And the search goes on!


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## kyle1745

I think the loose crumble is about the same for each...


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## pl259

> I agree your plan sounds like it works well Eric, but perhaps best for <10cx's at a time.?


Not sure what's best or not and I don't want to spur another debate on what to use. Plenty of those threads out there already.  Just want to share some new methods.

I make 8cxs/wk and a couple things I do to ease the time is to make up a couple weeks of the coffee filter plugs ahead of time and stuff them in a ziplock. Easy to do when sitting in front of the tube and it goes pretty fast. Secondly, when making up the cxs, I don't put the filters in that day. I put them in about four days later. Just helps to spread out the time. These ideas would likely work for excelcior or whatever else people use as well.


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## SeaDuck

We are using the commercial 10 cup size coffee filers. Each culture uses six filters. Just stack them and cut the bottoms out. I have a paper cutter however scissors would be fine. They are cheep, time efficient and we have not had them collapse. Plus I don't have to fight with folding or loose pieces of excelsior. Robert


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## ccc

Let us know how the cardboard works, Shawn. That looks like it might be interesting.

ccc


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## michaelslenahan

I thought someone might like to see a newbie mistake...

I work close to a FedEx Office, and I got a HUGE bag of shredded paper from them, which I figured was just as good as excelsior...

The before pics look ok, but the after ones... wish I had taken pictures just before I threw them out. =)


The paper slowly melted into the media and became absorbed there by the time I was finished... although, I did get a RIDICULOUS number of flies from those cultures... more than I ever got with coffee filters... hmmm...


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## Philsuma

Here's where I get mine:

Shredded Wood Excelsior

Excelsior works best for me....somehow it has the perfect "wicking" ability and my cultures do the best with it over anything else.

"Excelsior....it's BALES of fun"


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## frogcrazy

Another place i get mine from is lowes it comes in a tight roll for ground cover.I cut the roll up into smaller ones as i need them.The roll is 20 bucks.Its a little work because you have to unstring the plastic in it but I have the kids do it.keeps them busy for while.maybe thats why i use it lol.anyway hope it helps. 
Darran


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## michaelslenahan

I went to Lowes looking for excelsior--the lady said, sure, its in the plant department. After wandering around for a bit, she said, well, can't seem to find any, but isn't that the stuff from inside swamp cooler filters? I remembered reading about that somewhere on here and I said yes.

5 minutes later I have a HUGE (5 feet by 3 feet) flat sheet of excelsior disguised as an industrial size swamp cooler filter. Having never used the stuff before, I assume it is the same, slit it open, and there is no dust at all. Pulling two handfuls out to test (one on hydeis and one on melanos) I find I haven't even made a dent--I'm projecting 40+ cultures from this thing.

And the kicker? $3.49


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## Philsuma

michaelslenahan said:


> I went to Lowes looking for excelsior--the lady said, sure, its in the plant department. After wandering around for a bit, she said, well, can't seem to find any, but isn't that the stuff from inside swamp cooler filters? I remembered reading about that somewhere on here and I said yes.
> 
> 5 minutes later I have a HUGE (5 feet by 3 feet) flat sheet of excelsior disguised as an industrial size swamp cooler filter. Having never used the stuff before, I assume it is the same, slit it open, and there is no dust at all. Pulling two handfuls out to test (one on hydeis and one on melanos) I find I haven't even made a dent--I'm projecting 40+ cultures from this thing.
> 
> And the kicker? $3.49


 
Nice find if that's decent excel.........as long as it holds up and doesn't get grungy ect.

.....now what exactly is a swamp cooler?>/


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## heyduke

Shredded Wood Excelsior, 10 lb 1WOOD | Gift Basket Supplies | Merchandising Wasserstrom - Wasserstrom

not too bad for 10 lbs.


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## michaelslenahan

swamp cooler is basically a window air conditioning unit--I can't remember the specifics, but versus an air conditioning unit, one works better in higher humidity (such as the south, where I'm from). I remember my grandmother had one for her screened in porch.


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## Philsuma

Wow....that must be a La-eez-e-anna item....the Swamp cooler...

I like it.


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## michaelslenahan

THAT took a lot of pronouncing that to "figger" out...

Nope... its a Ten uh see un thing... I'm sure you could find some in that "insurance man checking the house" thread...

=)

Either way, I'm in Utah currently and I'm sure they have them at Lowes where you are. Ask them about swamp cooler filters and see what they have.


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## FuzzyTB

The Swamp cooler works in very dry areas. Basically has water flowing across the path of air blowing from a fan increasing water's surface area. The water evaporates, absorbing heat from the air. Obviously in high humidity areas, like much of Texas and Louisiana, we can't use the swamp cooler because it's already humid and not as much evaporation going on.

Uline is a great find. I've been looking for a good source of excelsior.


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## TDK

Lowe's and Home Depot carries a product for erosion control called seed germination blanket. It comes in a 4' x 50' roll for around $24. It is made from excelsior woven to a fine nylon screen/matt. I've been using it for fruit fly cultures because I have been doing some erosion control on some property I own. No chemicals or fertilizers are added and cheap.


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## Reef_Haven

Bumping this up, to see if anyone has found a better source. Also anyone using any alternatives that are working well?
I've tried the coffee filters and patio screen. I'm experimenting now with Spanish Moss, since it's free everywhere in Florida.


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## ChrisK

Willow Specialties 10 Lb. Shredded Wood Excelsior 1WOOD | Gift Basket Supplies - Wasserstrom Restaurant Supply


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## DEVILDOG

Has anyone used Raffia? I found it in Walmart they use it for a natural filler for gifts and baskets. This stuff looks like long strains of dried wheat.


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## TURQ64

I just purchased a 25 lb. bale from American Excelsior for 55.00 plus shipping..looks like that 'willow' link is cheaper tho'


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## Reef_Haven

ChrisK said:


> Willow Specialties 10 Lb. Shredded Wood Excelsior 1WOOD | Gift Basket Supplies - Wasserstrom Restaurant Supply


Thanks for that. I signed up for their newsletter on facebook and got an additional 15% off. Shipping was only $6.50 when I changed it to Super Saver shipping and had it shipped to my business address instead of a residential address.


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## tmx

The Excelsior from wasserstrom is a little thicker then your typical excelsior, but it still works great. I've been using it for the past year, haven't even made a dent in the box though hah. Working for a hotel that purchases from wasserstrom all the time made it even cheaper though!!


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