# What do you think ?



## Karel (Mar 7, 2006)

Bought a beautifull pair of Colons last week. According to the seller they are a pair. Thing is that the "female" also called a few times, not so hard as the "male" but still she did it. Now I know for fact that female pumilio's sometimes call also so it could be that this is the case here also.

Also the fact that they get along fine with each other still convince me that it's a pair


These are 2 photo's from the "female"....



















any thoughts or ideas ???


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The only PDFs I've ever had females calling of were phyllobates, and they had a very distinct call from the males. Is the "female's" call similar to the male's?

IME, pumilio that called where males. Males of most of the morphs, especially when a female isn't present, tend to get along pretty well, one male taking on a dominant role, and the other animal tends to act more like a female - not fighting, generally getting along, rarely calling if ever.

Pumilio have proven to be tricky to sex in many of the morphs, so if you're going by body shape for sexing, it might not actually be a female. And I honestly can't really tell body shape of that animal anyways, its a rather chunky frog!


----------



## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Female pumilio don't call.


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

This is not the first time I've heard this, but I've only heard it from European keepers. I've not had anything in my experience that would lead me to that conclusion, which is why I lean towards misIDed males... I never have heard convincing evidence about this.


----------



## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

bluedart said:


> Female pumilio don't call.


Anyone recall hermaphrodism in frogs? 
Would/could this effect vocalization>?

I don't know why it would be an impossibility for a female to have that ability. Only more underdeveloped in such specialization, unless otherwise influenced.


----------



## Karel (Mar 7, 2006)

bluedart said:


> Female pumilio don't call.


Well I know from several Pumilio breeders that females can call, much softer and not so clear then males, but they can call.


----------



## kleinhanz (Oct 18, 2004)

I believe I have a female pumilio (unproven) that has vocalized. Much different than a male call. Of course there is always the possibility, as Corey mentioned, of mistaken identity but appears to be a very gravid female (and not a chunky male). Plus, the interaction with the known male further backs-up my belief.


----------



## rburnj (Aug 19, 2004)

I really wouldn't worry about hermaphroditism in these frogs. It's been reported in some other anurans but the norm is for genetic sex determination. 

Like Corey said, I have heard about it in Phyllobates but not in pumilio. I wouldn't be surprised if they could though because its not unheard of among other taxa. The females calls may not be as audible so they are easily missed. Vocal communication in males is hormonally regulated so males exhibit this tendancy more often.

Ryan


----------



## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

Maybe she switched teams.......if ya know what I mean!!


----------



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

If it's a dominant/ nondominant issue then maybe separating them for awhile and seeing if they both start calling would be a start. Theoretically, if the supposed female is really a nondominant male and you had him in an enclosure by himself, he would therefore become teh dominant male in his enclosure and might start calling. If after awhile there is no calling or no increase, then I would definitely guess female.


----------



## Karel (Mar 7, 2006)

Little update: turned out to be 2 males :? 

BUT after some searching I found 2 females (Boca del Drago ).
So now I have 2 adult pairs  Will try to take some pictures.


----------



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Boca del Drago... is that a seperate color morph from the isla colons? or even locality?....man i hope you europeans arent mixing pum morphs/localities.


----------



## Karel (Mar 7, 2006)

Dendro Dave said:


> Boca del Drago... is that a seperate color morph from the isla colons? or even locality?....man i hope you europeans arent mixing pum morphs/localities.


no Boca del Drago is used for Colon's with orange legs, we "Europeans" don't mix!


----------



## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Karel said:


> Dendro Dave said:
> 
> 
> > Boca del Drago... is that a seperate color morph from the isla colons? or even locality?....man i hope you europeans arent mixing pum morphs/localities.
> ...


Are the ones in the original picture Boca del Drago? They have pretty orange legs, so I'd guess so.

I can't wait to get Colons.


----------



## Karel (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes those are Boca del Drago Colon's. I have 2 adult pairs now  

Will take some pictures this week and post them.


----------

