# New setup..waiting time to introduce frog?



## mamauv4plusfrogs (Mar 26, 2010)

My eight year old autistic son started his dart frog hobby back in January. Last week my husband and I built a twenty gallon tank for him so that we can add additional frogs. We built the tank using Great stuff foam along with some brown GE silicone to cover the foam, and then Tropical Soil to cover the silicone. We finished the tank last Friday. I have been checking humidity and temp daily and those are fine. My question is how long do I need to wait before we can put our healthy, active Azureus into it? My only concern at this point knowing my temp and humidity are fine would be the silicone smell. We put the frog into that tank a few hours after we completed it on Friday and he explored for a few hours but then climbed on the glass and stayed under our lighting for about 7 hours which is not usual for him. After coming down he went into hiding into his cocohut. We then decided to put him back into his previous tank and he has been fine since. I would like to get him into his new enclosure soon so that I can rebuild his previous tank for a tinc we have as well. Any suggestions on how long I should wait before introducing our Azureus into our new tank?


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

How long did you wait between spraying the foam and applying the silicone?

How long between applying the silicone and adding the substrate/plants etc?

When you say last Friday do you mean March 26th?

I just did a few GS backgrounds and let them cure for a month or so. Not that you have go that long but you really shouldn't have the vinegar odor in the tank when you starting adding the substrate etc . . .


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

Give it a little time. The silicone should cure with in 48 hours depending on humidity. You may want to leave the top off and let it dry completely and air out if the humidity was too high for the silicone to cure. You say you have been checking the humidity and temps, what are they? What are they in the morning before the lights come on? What are they in the afternoon? What are they at night before the lights go off? Temps can fluctuate through out the day, so be aware.

If you can wait a few weeks that might be best and get yourself some springtail cultures and let them get established in the tank before you introduce the frogs. It will give your frogs something to hunt for if no fruit flies.


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## mamauv4plusfrogs (Mar 26, 2010)

We waited a few days for the foam to dry before we covered it with silicone. We had to cut some of the foam out from the tank bc too much of it was used. Once the foam was dry(we waited two to three days) then we covered with silicone in small areas at a time, added tropical soil, then moved to another area. Some of the areas had sat for a day. The last part of silicone was done on the 26th, we added tropical soil to cover and it basically has been sitting since. Once the last application of silicone was done was added our substrate and plants. I didn't do ther background of the tank with foam..only the bottom so that we could add some heavy rocks and our piece of mopani wood. if I can figure out how to upload a pic i will!

We used forest moss as substrate and added the existing plants that were in the previous setup. My tank temp has been runnning around 77 degrees and is exactly what his current tank is and humidity has been as high as 83% depending on how often I had the lid open to air out.

I was told by my breeder that I didn't need to use springtails in the tank bc our Azureus is around 7 months old. She said they are mainly used for smaller frogs and we have been very successful with our fruit fly cultures since January. I currently have two cultures of fruit flies to feed with.


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## mamauv4plusfrogs (Mar 26, 2010)




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## hukilausurfer (Aug 31, 2009)

Im guessing thats the temp tank. Can we get a pic of the new one?


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

hukilausurfer said:


> Im guessing thats the temp tank. Can we get a pic of the new one?


If that's a temp tank, it's a very elaborate one.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

That's not the temp tank. I see the mopani wood.

To me, when I say my tank is done it usually isn't actually done. I like to say my tank is done when all of the silicone/coco fiber has been applied, not when all the plants have been added (48-72 hours after the last of the silicone was applied) and not when I start msting the tank and getting everything running (a week after the last of the silicone was applied). If you used silicone on the 26 and then started running the tank (you said the viv was done on the 26 and have been paying attention to humidity levels ever since) immediately there's a possibility that the silicone isn't dry yet. There should be no silicone smell when you even put in the plants IMO and the week long is to make extra certain that there is not going to be a silicone smell when I start running the tank.

IMO springs should be used in every tank regardless if the frogs eat them. I've got springs booming in my bassleri tank and I'm fairly sure they don't look twice at them. However, it helps your tank out. At the very least they're a good clean up crew for frog feces and decaying leaf litter/molding plants.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

Wheres the siliconed Great Stuff then?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Great Stuff is here (I'm guessing. Can't view pics from work):



> I didn't do ther background of the tank with foam..only the bottom so that we could add some heavy rocks and our piece of mopani wood.


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## mamauv4plusfrogs (Mar 26, 2010)

This is the new tank.. This was our very first build and is more elaborate then the tank that he is in now. The great stuff foam is located under those two large rocks at the corners and was used under the piece of the mopani wood. So I see we jumped the gun a bit when adding our plants then and I should let it air out?? I am not smelling the strong silicone smell now, but i do have some allergies going on and am a bit impaired at the moment. My husband has asked if we should put springtails in it and my breeder said it wasn't needed, but it seems that may be a good idea. My past tank did have these in it.
Seeing this tank already with forest moss and plants how long would you recommend letting it air out? Another week? I see in need to locate a culture of springtails as well. Thanks for the info! I am sure our Azureus would be thankful to not die of silicone smell!


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

Take the entire top off and let the thing air out. You might want to remove your plants and put them in a tupperware container that you can keep moist; you want the vivarium to get bone dry. When the humidity in the vivarium is at least the same with the humidity outside the vivarium let it sit for a week, then add your plants.

I know your great stuff is on the bottom of the tank to hold up your wood and rocks, but how much of the floor is great stuffed? I'm guessing you used either a false bottom or LECA (you probably mentioend that and I forgot... sorry), but if you put great stuff over too much of the bottom you won't have adequate drainage.

You might also want to get a piece of wood or two that you can mount to (or at least lean up against) the side. While it's true tinctorius are primarily a terrestrial species, they _do_ use some of the vertical space you provide them with. Also consider adding a pair of coco huts for some hiding space.


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## mamauv4plusfrogs (Mar 26, 2010)

We have a pair of cocohuts to go in there. They will be placed on those two large rocks in the corner witht he forest moss surrounding them. They won't go in until the frogs go in. We only put foam on the bottom to cover the rocks that are in the corners, they rest is just filled with forest moss.

I was just wondering about what kind of tall plants I could add in there so they can have vertical space as well. My tinc loves the climb, my azureus stays closer to the bottom.

How exactly do I add springtails in with the tank? Do I just buy a culture and mix them in with the moss?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Ok I am brand new to this and don't even have my first frog yet. But I've spent countless hours on this board, reading everything I could find. So I'm an armchair expert 

I think you should have some sort of a false bottom for drainage. Maybe you could take the moss out, put in a layer of LECA or pebbles, and put the moss back on top. I would mix the moss with something though, to keep it from being soggy. I have mixed shredded coco, coco husk and chopped sphagnum moss in one and I'm starting a second that will have chopped sphagnum moss and bark. 

You'll need a way to drain the water, periodically. Some folks have fancy drains. Others just use a turkey baster. So keep that in mind and make sure you leave yourself access to get something down to the bottom to suck out the water. 

Oh and the people here say that the frogs really want a leaf layer on top. 

Hmm, more plants to give better sense of security. Throw in a couple branches (can get some neat ones at the pet store for just a few bucks).

That said, I really like the way your tank looks.

eta: you can buy springtails from many of the sponsors on this site. I just got my first ones a couple days ago. From what I've read, you 'seed' your tank with some, and keep the culture going for future bugs. I'm going to split the one I got into 3, so I have more than one going at a time. Lots of info on springtails on the board. Too much to really send you to any one post. If you just search for springtails and culture, you'll find a lot of info.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

frogface said:


> Oh and the people here say that the frogs really want a leaf layer on top.


Frogs want a layer of leaf litter, but I've found it's primarily the smaller thumbs that like the leaf litter. Leaf litter is also necessary to provide compost for your springs and microfauna to feed on.

Most of the sponsors can sell you springtails. They're really easy to culture. The easiest way is to get a 5 quart container, fill it with large pieces of charcoal, put an inch of RO water in the bottom and periodically put mushrooms or brewers yeast in. You can seed by flooding the cultures and pouring the water in the viv, blowing across the top of the culture into your viv or taking out pieces of charcoal and placing them in the viv to allow them to crawl off. 

I don't know any of plants that really grow tall in my vivs. Some species of begonias grow a tall, pothos leaves grow up a few inches.... (And for the record, azureus is a morph of tinctorius).


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## mamauv4plusfrogs (Mar 26, 2010)

Our previous tank that our breeder built for us is exactly the same way. We have never had to drain it. We have a little bit of tropical soil and some bark mixed in with our moss..but I mean a little.

I have read mixed reviews about adding springtails to the tank. Some say it doesn't really do that much good for the tank and some recommend it. if we decide to add do we just dump a few in there. i do know that Joshsfrogs sell them and I order my fruit fly culture materials from him as well. I have not found anyone locally that sells them.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

If the breeder you bought your frogs from isn't culturing springs I have to wonder how reputable that breeder is.... Maybe that's just me, though.

I rarely find a real _need_ to drain my tanks, but there _is_ a need for a drainage system. Are you using a false bottom or LECA system?

Springs are a clean-up system. They clean up poop and rotting plants. Even if you don't seed them yourself, in a good tank you usually end up getting _some_ sort of microfauna. Maybe that's why some people don't tihnk it's necessary to seed your vivs with springs.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

> They clean up poop


This right here is enough to convince me


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