# Mixing D. auratus??



## farmchica22 (Sep 6, 2004)

Hello,

Now I know that mixing species of darts is frowned upon, but I don't intend on breeding any of them so therefore I think I'm in the clear  . Anyway, I currently have 2 D. auratus that are about 5 months old, and am wondering if it would be possible for P. terribilis to coexist with them ( I probably wouldn't be starting this project until the summer) and if so what size tank would you suggest. I live in the dorms so space is a limiting factor. I'm rather new to the whole keeping dart frogs hobby so any suggestions are welcome. 
Thanks!!!!

-Jen


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

The species/morph mixing isn't just frowned upon for breeding, although that is a major factor. The other factor is that many just aren't compatible for other reasons, be it food, aggressiveness, or just habitat needs.

While I've seen terribilis/bicolor housed with truncatus and fantasticus in a large tank setting at NAIB, the terribilis at minimum would have different feeding needs as they like bigger prey items (I've seen bicolor eat half grown house geckos, and these guys aren't any different). Terribilis love two week old crix, houseflies (thats funny as hell to watch), decent sized waxworm larvae (and their moths), small mealies, 1/4 to 1/3 grown silkworms, we're talking big stuff that auratus wouldn't touch.

I personally can't speak for different habitat needs.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2005)

So mixing species (such as pumilo and auratus) isn't good practice... I can see why and I agree. I maintain a South American biotope aquarium, keeping only fish from that region. (Plants are another story!)

But what about all the variations within a species? Such as D. Pumilo "Red" with "Blue Jeans"? Is this considered mixing as well?
If not, then the various colour frogs will not breed, will they? Will they breed with their own colour only or with anything within their species?

I know that a Neon Tetra will not breed with a Diamond Tetra, and am hoping frogs are the same way.


thanks, 
Isaac


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

zeek said:


> So mixing species (such as pumilo and auratus) isn't good practice... I can see why and I agree. I maintain a South American biotope aquarium, keeping only fish from that region. (Plants are another story!)
> 
> But what about all the variations within a species? Such as D. Pumilo "Red" with "Blue Jeans"? Is this considered mixing as well?
> If not, then the various colour frogs will not breed, will they? Will they breed with their own colour only or with anything within their species?
> ...


For the most part mixing these variations (usually called morphs) is even worse than mixing species because they are more likely to interbreed. Back to your original question, I've seen P. vittatus and D. auratus successfully housed together in a modest sized tank. Terribs might be a little too "bulldoggy". I don't know. But mixing species can be complicated so I think everyone agrees that it shouldn't be attempted until the hobbyist has gotten familiar with keeping the species individually first. I don't think mixing species has ever been "recommended" but it is possible if you are careful about how you do it.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Mixing is usually reserved for large tanks where there can be a low frog population density and frogs that don't interact well can get away. Keeping various species of frogs is like trying to have a community tank of certain fish (although I find it much easier with fish since you have frogs competing for the same area, not multiple levels in the tank like fish). The larger the fish tank, the more species of fish you can successfully keep right? Same kinda goes with frogs.

The different morphs of frogs aren't captive bred like the various neon tetras (albinos, diamonds, etc.) these are naturally occuring populations in the wild. In relation to breeding morphs together, they are kinda regarded as species - you don't want to hybridize species OR morphs. And as mentioned before, because morphs are technically the same species, they are more likely to hybridize than different species. Most of these morphs to not, for the most part, interbreed with each other in the wild, and are found in different locations. It would be like the African Lake Cichlids - while a species might be spread between a couple lakes, interbreeding between lake populations isn't recomended. The fish would breed, but as they wouldn't in the wild, and you want to maintain wild types, you wouldn't hybridize the populations.

Crossing two morphs is creating a frog that wouldn't happen for the most part in the wild, especially since for one reason or another (stuff that we don't completely understand) the populations did develop in the first place.


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## farmchica22 (Sep 6, 2004)

Well, mixing terribilis and auratus obviously aren't going to be causing any morphs seeing as how they are in completely different genera . Therefore, I think its more of an issue of the terribilis being overly "tank-hoggy." Now, I know that auratus are supposedly shy frogs (mine stay out in the open) but I was under the impression that they can get to a fairly large size, maybe not as big as terribilis, but big enough to hold their own in the tank perhaps? I of course wouldn't start such a project as this for a long time, I'm still learning/growing accustomed to the auratus that I currently have . 
Thanks for the responses!!!

-Jen


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Size won't determine who runs the tank, its the personality. Auratus do tend to be shier and not as aggressive tank mates as some tincs, tricolors, and pumilio (all of which are known for anger management issues, tricolors and pumilio having been known to attack other species housed with them sometimes). Tricolor and pumilio have been know to take on other frogs double to triple their size. This aggression could be enough to overly stress said frog, even though its much bigger.

D. auratus is technically the largest PDF species (not well represented as such in the hobby except by some of the giant panamanian auratus) but this doesn't mean it will hold its own.

The "shyness" of auratus is relative. Blues and canal zone/small spot/six point auratus I've know to be rather shy (but not as shy as many of the mantellas), with hawaiian, nicaraguan, and costa ricans to be not nearly as shy (out in the open much of the time like you descibed). While you might lable these as bold, even these guys aren't that bold compared to some of the tincs and phyllobates (among others) who literally go into an almost feeding frenzy state when they think you are going to feed them (hopping around the front of the tank 'begging' and even crawling up your arm when its in the tank). 'Boldness' and 'shyness' are only good terms to use when comparing the activities between morphs and/or species. And like my examples, the morph is important as many morphs may show different behaviors.

And the terms boldness and shyness also don't cover the topic of holding their own. While bold frogs may also be the agressive hold-their-own type, my atelopus spumarius are very bold (walk right up to you when you're doing stuff in the tank and sometimes up your arm, don't care all that much about you watching them, etc.) but I wouldn't put them in with another "bold" species, I think they'd get their butts whooped. They may be "bold" but they are too laid back to hold their own.


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2005)

Yes, alot of folks frown on mixing...Me ..I mix these guys together...as you can see they get along fine....The Azurres may get his own Viv soon..but they have been housed together for a long time...they were growing up together when i got them...My tank is a 30g and they all have their own territories....I watch them closely and take phecal samples to the Doctor frequently..I have no intention of breeding and quite frankly discourage the conditions for breeding....they are VERY healthy!


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