# My new leucs!



## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

So I just wanted to post some pics of my new leucomelas. They appear to be healthy to me, but with these being my first frogs, I really don't know what to look for. I was hoping that maybe some of the more experienced eyes could take a look and see if everything seems as great as I'm hoping. 

They are in their temp home right now. Quarantined and waiting around until their tank is finished. I will hopefully start planting tomorrow.

Anyways, here are the little guys(or gals) and I hope the pics come out decent. They seemed to be pretty cooperative! 

Hope these pics show up lol.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

Oh, and before I am scolded about it... there is quite a bit of leaf litter in the temp home. I just shuffled some around to get the pics


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## Dartfrogcaretaker (Oct 18, 2012)

I would say they all look healthy just from the pictures. But pictures can't tell everything. Observe their behavior and make sure you are feeding them plenty (especially since they look like froglets) and giving them their supplements. Watch to make sure all of them are feeding and one isn't being left out. Otherwise I'm sure they are healthy frogs.

What do you plan to feed them?

Congratulations on your new frogs and good luck.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

Dartfrogcaretaker said:


> I would say they all look healthy just from the pictures. But pictures can't tell everything. Observe their behavior and make sure you are feeding them plenty (especially since they look like froglets) and giving them their supplements. Watch to make sure all of them are feeding and one isn't being left out. Otherwise I'm sure they are healthy frogs.
> 
> What do you plan to feed them?
> 
> Congratulations on your new frogs and good luck.


Thank you. Yes, they are froglets. I had them housed together until 2 seemed a bit more shy. I removed them to their own enclosure and ensured that they were all eating. After a couple of days they became more bold and I re-introduced them back to the group. They are all eating well (fruit flies dusted with Rep-cal and Herptivite. I alternate the vitamins with each feeding) and I'm giving them a couple of small meals throughout the day. Being new to it all I want to make sure that they eat enough, but not put too many in at once. I've thought about other supplements but haven't been able to find the exact info that I need. I've been looking into the Repashy line and unsure which is better. 

I keep their temps around 72-76 and humidity has stayed around 82-87%.

I'm happy to hear that they seem healthy from the pics and I watch them eat at least a few flies each with every feeding. I'm hoping that they will associate my face peering at them as a good thing and not a threat over time


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

This is a pic of the smallest of the 5 froglets. I keep an eye on this one because it is a bit more shy. I believe that it has a healthy weight.. but is the one that I would be the most concerned about because it seems to burrow under the substrate most of the time. 

Should I put this single frog into its own enclosure or is this normal behavior? I'd hate to add the stress of moving it if this isn't a problem. I never see the others around it so I don't think any bullying is happening, and I always sprinkle some fruit flies in its hiding spot to ensure that it is eating.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

(uploading the pic would have helped in that last post)


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Freakin' adorable! My rookie eye thinks they look great! Try not to worry or feed too much. 

-Chris


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

kitcolebay said:


> Freakin' adorable! My rookie eye thinks they look great! Try not to worry or feed too much.
> 
> -Chris


Thanks Chris! I absolutely adore them. I can't help myself but to worry. I feel like a new mother lol. I'm sure I'll calm down quite a bit once they are in their viv and not in a rubbermaid box. I've had them for a week now and hate disturbing them by opening the lid. Has me very motivated to finish the viv quickly though. Plants arrive today, then I'll seed it, give it a few weeks (if I can wait that long) and then I will post some more pics of them in their new home


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Moriko said:


> This is a pic of the smallest of the 5 froglets. I keep an eye on this one because it is a bit more shy. I believe that it has a healthy weight.. but is the one that I would be the most concerned about because it seems to burrow under the substrate most of the time.
> 
> Should I put this single frog into its own enclosure or is this normal behavior? I'd hate to add the stress of moving it if this isn't a problem. I never see the others around it so I don't think any bullying is happening, and I always sprinkle some fruit flies in its hiding spot to ensure that it is eating.


They all look to be in good shape, I wouldn't move him. You said you've had them a week and already separated and re-introduced a couple of them...so they're already going through enough stress. Just let them relax for a while. Froglets hiding is very normal and nothing to worry about on its own. If he stops eating & shows signs of weight loss, or you see him getting picked on, then consider separation. Sometimes I think when we have new frogs, our worrying creates more problems than there should be. 

They are a nice looking bunch btw!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

WendySHall said:


> They all look to be in good shape, I wouldn't move him. You said you've had them a week and already separated and re-introduced a couple of them...so they're already going through enough stress. Just let them relax for a while. Froglets hiding is very normal and nothing to worry about on its own. If he stops eating & shows signs of weight loss, or you see him getting picked on, then consider separation. Sometimes I think when we have new frogs, our worrying creates more problems than there should be.
> 
> They are a nice looking bunch btw!


Thanks Wendy! I have no plans of moving them again. Not unless it is a legitimate reason of course  I'm pretty sure they are all fine. I suppose I'm just taking up for the little guy. The small one will probably catch up in size in just a matter of weeks with the amount of flies it takes in lol. Today the tiny one is my most active hunter! These little frogs are simply amazing to watch and I can see now that this is going to become an expensive hobby. Completely worth it though!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

So here is a (not quite finished) pic of my leucs viv. I still have quite a bit of work to do on it. Plants will arrive today but I still need to work on some final touches. 

Just wanted to upload and see if there is anything else I will need to add to make it more suitable for the group. 

I also have a coco hut and small piece of wood to add as well.


Oh, ignore the moss. Just trying my hand at some of the pillow moss. Pretty sure it won't make it, but is so pretty if it does! It's been going for around 2 weeks now.


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## Arpeggio (Jan 15, 2011)

I think they would appreciate more leaf litter, and less pillow moss. Leaf litter needs to be thicker too so they can hide underneath layers and stuff 

Also, maybe a nice sized plant like a pothos in the left hand corner would help give them some cover.

Good start~


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I still have a couple of bags of leaf litter that I do plan on adding after I get it planted. I have a nice assortment of plants coming in. 

The moss is just an experiment. I had a good deal on the 'frog moss' that people can't get to live most of the time.. so I wanted to give it a shot. I just have it placed everywhere to see if it takes off in any spot. 

Thanks though! I appreciate any feedback as this is my first build!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

Plants came in and I added them to the viv. I'm totally clueless about plants so I checked the site that they came from and planted them accordingly. Please let me know if you see anything out of place.

I've also seeded it with springs and added a bit more leaf litter for them to feed on. No frogs of course.. that will be a few weeks from now.


Please excuse the sideways pic.. not sure why that happened


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Looks great! Good job!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

Thanks Wendy!

The tough part now is waiting lol. I really want them in there now. Common sense tells me to wait though, so I'll just suck it up and let it grow in a bit


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## WendySHall (Aug 31, 2010)

Ha! That feeling of "wanting them now!" never goes away... one of the sufferings that go with the hobby.


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## FlyingPollock (Jan 30, 2012)

Very nice, they're so colorful when they're babies. Congrats!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

FlyingPollock said:


> Very nice, they're so colorful when they're babies. Congrats!


Thank you! I was lucky enough to get some variation in their color. So far I have 3 that I can tell apart due to their markings. The other two still like to hide so I can't name them yet. Watching their distinctive personalities is awesome!

I originally bought them and set up their viv because they seemed like 'cute exotic pets' but after watching them, I must say, they are truly a very interesting animal. If it weren't for my self control I would be watching them non stop. Of the 3 active and bold leucs, they each have their own 'claimed' area that they can always be found in. 

I think my next venture will be a group of el copes in a few months. The addiction has started and there is no turning back now!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I do have a question.. if anyone happens to lurk this thread at some point lol.

I ordered some superpig.. as well as some repashy calcium plus. I've switched my supplements due to some topics I read on here. I'm feeding the calcium plus with each feeding. Will adding the superpig once or twice a month help to keep/improve their coloration?


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah, they may go a bit more orangefrom the superpig.Once a month is fine. Youll looove them as they get older and bolder. My 1st frogs were leucs, and I still love them just as much as the day I got them


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

Thanks! Once a month it is  I'm still trying to figure out the vitamins that I need to use. So many people use repashy products, so I feel confident in that. 

I must say, they seem to be a great beginner frog. I couldn't be happier with my decision. So far I've seen them all over the viv (the 3 active ones at least) and I can see how people adore them so much. As a first frog I wanted something bold, colorful, and full of personality.. and I hit all 3 with these little guys (gals)


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

So, wanted to update this post now that the plants have grown in some. They are growing faster than I ever imagined, so some may need to be moved around (again) in the next few months. Overall, I am pleased with my first viv set up.. although I've learned a lot with it. I can't wait to start my second using what I've learned from this board.. and my personal trial and error. 

Also added a few pics of the inhabitants. They seem to be doing very well! This is 1 1/2 months after finishing the viv.

Also, I apologize for the pics. A couple are sideways.. and the others aren't the best quality. iPhones and LEDs don't really work well together for me lol.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

Looking good, Tonya!

Leucs were my first frogs and are still my fav!

They'll really appreciate the climbing areas you've given them. Nice viv!

Wait until you hear their first call.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

frogfreak said:


> Looking good, Tonya!
> 
> Leucs were my first frogs and are still my fav!
> 
> ...


Thanks Glenn!

I'm excited to hear their calls.. but haven't the slightest clue as to their age. It will be a surprise for sure when that happens. I have them in my living room and am almost sure to be around when it happens. 

Funny story, when my son was running around with his Nintendo DS, he was playing a game where there were chirping crickets. I had never heard that before and ran to the tank, lol. Must say I was disappointed to find out that it was the game. I knew that the leucs were way too young to start calling.. but in that moment I had a lapse of sanity and forgot all of my common sense.


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## mfsidore (Oct 10, 2012)

AWESOME! I'm getting some soon


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

mfsidore said:


> AWESOME! I'm getting some soon


I think you will love them! They are the only frogs I have at the moment, but I adore them. They are almost always out in the open, come to the front of the tank when it is feeding time, and use every bit of the tank that they can get to.


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## mfsidore (Oct 10, 2012)

Haha, that's soooo cool!


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I had mine calling as early as 6 months. No breeding of course.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Congrads on the continued love for Leucs! Same story...my first frogs and still lovin' them! Mine also started calling around 6 months or so. They're about 14-15 months now and think breeding is just around the corner.

-Chris


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

frogfreak said:


> I had mine calling as early as 6 months. No breeding of course.


Oh wow! I haven't looked into the breeding ages of leucs, since that wasn't my main reason for getting them. I figure they will get around to it when they are ready 

They have almost doubled in size it seems since I got them. I wish I had some idea of the ages.. but I believe that there is a month or so difference in a few of them. For instance, one of the frogs (which I call spot) was named for having a single spot above his eye. Over the past week he has been gaining new spots in one of his bands. The others seem to have already gone through that process. He/she looked almost like a banded leuc when I got them. It is hard for me to compare them to other leucs I see. They are from Josh's frogs, the '96 import which is supposed to have a few minor differences.. but being a new frog owner, don't have others to compare them too. 

Regardless, I'm really happy that I chose to start out with them. There are so many others that I want to own over time. I'm currently building an Oyapock viv that I'm really excited about. It will be interesting to see how they act compared to my leuc group.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I just found my leucs in some spots that I thought would make for interesting photos. Upon doing so.. I started to wonder if they may be getting a bit overweight. Specifically the one climbing the twisty sticks. (this is Spot that I spoke of earlier)

Could any of you other luec owners give me your opinions? I've been feeding them daily since they are still juvis, and I put in quite a bit of flies because of there being 5 in the viv. There usually aren't any flies left over the next day.. which is the basis I've used on the amount to feed them. Now I'm wondering if they aren't actually just little piglets in frog disguise and eating past their fill.


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## Cfrog (Oct 28, 2011)

They look amazing, nice and healthy. Yes they are minpigs in disguise. Luecs were my 2nd frog, adventurous and bold. Good luck with them.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

rain dart said:


> They look amazing, nice and healthy. Yes they are minpigs in disguise. Luecs were my 2nd frog, adventurous and bold. Good luck with them.


Thank you!


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

Bunch of cute fatsos


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Not chubby...egg bearing!

-Chris


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Moriko, they look great. They are nice and chubby. How often are you feeding them and how much? I was thinking possibly egg filled as well.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

I feed them daily unless there are leftover flies from the day before. That has only happened 2-3 times. I try to feed them a decent amount. It is hard to pinpoint how many. For the 5 frogs I feed maybe as many that it would take to cover a quarter if they were bunched together (if that makes sense). I started off feeding them less than that but they devoured them in no time and I upped the amount the following day until it gave them enough to snack on throughout the day. They also snack on springtails in the viv that are replenished weekly.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

Yeah she's harboring eggs..


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Very nice vivarium, some suggestions:

1) I would replace the moss on the lower right with leaf litter;

2) Is that a tradescantia upper right? Uh-uh, replace that, before it overgrows your tank. A better alternative would be a peperomia, like glabella or trinervula.

3) The aluminum plant will also grow too unwieldy; I would replace it with something less aggressive. Maybe a _Syngonium rayi_ or _Syngonium_ 'Pyxie?' O,r if you like color, how about _Caladium humboldtii_?

4) Who is the big-leaved joe right next to the hut? The plant in the 4th photo? If it is what I think it is... 

Bear in mind: Many tropical plants, once established, do not like to be moved! 

Overall, a fine design.



Moriko said:


> So, wanted to update this post now that the plants have grown in some. They are growing faster than I ever imagined, so some may need to be moved around (again) in the next few months. Overall, I am pleased with my first viv set up.. although I've learned a lot with it. I can't wait to start my second using what I've learned from this board.. and my personal trial and error.
> 
> Also added a few pics of the inhabitants. They seem to be doing very well! This is 1 1/2 months after finishing the viv.
> 
> Also, I apologize for the pics. A couple are sideways.. and the others aren't the best quality. iPhones and LEDs don't really work well together for me lol.


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

GP dynamite said:


> Yeah she's harboring eggs..


Wow, really? That would be amazing. It does seem like the weight was gained rather quickly. I just didn't think that they would be old enough yet. I guess it is time to wait and see!



Groundhog said:


> Very nice vivarium, some suggestions:
> 
> 1) I would replace the moss on the lower right with leaf litter;
> 
> ...


1. The moss is the 'frog moss' that most say can't live. I'm expecting it to finish browning and see if any spores make it. I really doubt that they will.. and at that point I do plan on replacing it with some more leaf litter.

2. Yes it is. It is placed in the back, has grown into 3 separate vines, and is very wild. I plan on keeping it well trimmed and really enjoy the flowering. Is the problem with the growth or the roots? I don't mind keeping it trimmed back if it is only because of the growth. I have only one tank at the moment and more than enough time to groom the tank.

3. Yes, the aluminum plant has surprised me with it's growth. Just like on the other plant, would you consider it a problem plant due to growth or roots?

4. Bergenia 'Overture' - Elephant's Ear is the front plant that you were speaking of. 

Just a bit of an explanation.. I am very new with plants so I ordered a plant package without knowing what would come. Most have done well.. seeing as how these are the first plants that have actually ever thrived for me. Watching them grow is as exciting as watching the frogs. It will take a bit of experience to start choosing my own plants.. as well as trial and error. I have no problem, and actually enjoy pruning them. However, if the roots are going to cause an issue I will happily move them to another location/viv.

Thank you for your suggestions. They are very appreciated!


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## MosquitoCoast (Nov 16, 2009)

I've had my Leucs since last August. They were suppose to have been 3-4 months out of water and then one of the males started calling a little over 3 weeks later. They also started breeding early and now I have about 2 dozen tadpoles.

They had always been my favorite and that's why I chose them for my first dart frog. It will be so cool when you hear them call for the first time.

Good luck!


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

MosquitoCoast said:


> I've had my Leucs since last August. They were suppose to have been 3-4 months out of water and then one of the males started calling a little over 3 weeks later. They also started breeding early and now I have about 2 dozen tadpoles.
> 
> They had always been my favorite and that's why I chose them for my first dart frog. It will be so cool when you hear them call for the first time.
> 
> Good luck!


Wow! I should have taken the time to ask about the age.. but the website said most froglets are 3-4 months OOW from what I remember. I've had them now for around a month and a half.


Also wanted to update the info I gave on their feedings. I just fed them again this morning and was trying to make sure that I gave an accurate example of the amount that they are fed. I believe I was wrong. Granted, a few more flies got into the cup today because the culture is booming, but there is no way that amount would fit on a quarter. Maybe a quarter and a half? 

I find it so difficult to know what is the right amount to feed them. I've read so many posts and went with the majority that said to feed them a certain amount, judge the speed that they eat it, and follow up the next day accordingly. If flies are still in the viv, wait a day. Don't put so many flies in that they will be crawling on the frogs. 

I planned on cutting back to every other day once they reach maturity, and I've been dusting the food daily of course. If anyone has any input on that new food amount, please let me know. I want to do the best for the frogs and keep them healthy.

For the record, there are 5 leucomelas, 1996 import (which is supposed to get a little larger I'm told), and their bodies are pretty close to the length of a quarter.

Thanks again for the suggestions and help. It is really appreciated!


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

1) Nothing against moss--but many dendrobatids do inhabit areas with fallen leaf litter. If you peruse pictures of many rainforests, they do not look like our tanks--very often there is a lot of brown between the green.

2 AND 3) Here's the dilly yo: Very often, people use quick-growing plants to fill in. They do look nice for a while, but then they grow overgrow here, get leggy there, etc. Well that is the tradeoff! It is as with many fast growing annuals, they grow fast and then fade out. For our purposes, this applies to many Acanthaceae (fittonias, ruellia) , pileas, pellionias, tradescantias, these all grow fast and then look like crap after a couple of years. Lemme put it this way: puppies and kittens grow fast because they do not live that long. Neither do these plants. Aroids, bromeliads (unless monocarpic), begonias, peperomias and many orchids all mature slower and live a lot longer.

You say that you have time to play with these guys. Well, that usually does not last long... 

4) I was afraid of that... Bergenia looks good in a shade garden, but it gets way too big for that space and it is not a tropical plant. Maybe, like its relative _Saxifraga stolonifera_, it will live, but I doubt it will flower w/o a dormancy period. 




Moriko said:


> Wow, really? That would be amazing. It does seem like the weight was gained rather quickly. I just didn't think that they would be old enough yet. I guess it is time to wait and see!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MosquitoCoast (Nov 16, 2009)

One thing I've found out with sheet moss is that it only seems to grow good if you have it high up in the enclosure, close to the lights and you keep it moist. My Leucs love their leaf litter. I have a really thick carpet of leaf litter and they will congregate underneath it and play around. They will also travel around the enclosure under the leaf litter.

Check out the link below. The pictures really answered a lot of questions I had about some of our frog's natural environment. I come back often and look at these pictures.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/60381-peru-trip-ue.html


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## Moriko (Jan 29, 2013)

MosquitoCoast said:


> One thing I've found out with sheet moss is that it only seems to grow good if you have it high up in the enclosure, close to the lights and you keep it moist. My Leucs love their leaf litter. I have a really thick carpet of leaf litter and they will congregate underneath it and play around. They will also travel around the enclosure under the leaf litter.
> 
> Check out the link below. The pictures really answered a lot of questions I had about some of our frog's natural environment. I come back often and look at these pictures.
> 
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/60381-peru-trip-ue.html


I have looked over those pictures before, and they are amazing! 

I only have sheet moss in on the highest wooden piece in my viv. The frogs sleep under it on occasion. The moss in the front is the dried up frog moss that you find at pet stores. The reason for it being there is that it was purchased for me.. and after reading tons of people saying it didn't work for them, I felt the need to give it a shot. Healthy frog moss/ pillow moss is beautiful if kept in small amounts. I always keep leaf litter in my viv as well. I toss extra in every couple of weeks when it seems like it is no longer able to be used for hiding.


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## mfsidore (Oct 10, 2012)

Huhhhhh, luecs


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