# How much should a dart frog poop per day?



## sunnysideup (Nov 15, 2018)

What’s a normal amount of poop per day or per week? I have two young azureus PDFs and while QTing them, I noticed that they typically poop 1x per day. However, recently, I’ve only noticed one of them poops. I have them on paper towel substrate so it’s easy to see the poop. Im trying to collect it to send to the vet, but am having a tough time getting enough of a sample. 

They both seem to eat well. One of them, Bozo, has no trouble catching FFs and will go hunting for them. He originally was gaining some weight since I got him last week. However, this week he hasn’t pooped in a couple days. Should I be concerned? Is it possible he’s eating his poop? He has plenty of FFs. Not sure if being in the QT tank is influencing his bowel movements. I think he may have lost weight, but that might have been due to the stress of the med treatments. 

The other one, Skye, poops a small turd almost every day. Hers are drier and smaller; she also eats less and is a shy eater. I think she’s a bad hunter. She won’t eat a FF unless it is directly in front of her. I wonder if her vision is impaired since she’ll watch a FF walk past her and won’t really chase it unless it is directly in front of her. Even though she’s a shy eater/bad hunter, I noticed she’s getting a little bit of a belly!! Doesn’t look bloated. 

I don’t think they can be impacted since their substrate is paper towel and I’m feeding wingless melanogasters, Turkish gliders, and hydei, dusted with Repashy Cal Plus, Zoomed Herpetivite, or RepCal Phosphorus-free Cal plus Vit D - I switch them up every now and then. 

Can people kindly share how much their PDFs poop per day and what’s normal? I assume it varies, like it does in humans, but wondering when I should be concerned. I think in humans, no BMs for a week is a concern. If they’re eating and have an appetite and don’t look bloated IMO, should I be concerned?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

I assume you have them in separate QT's. Sometimes frogs are under stress from the QT and don't eat as much. You didn't mention how small they are, but tiny juvenile tincs sometimes 'don't do well' and consequently don't make it no matter how well you try. I've had at least a dozen over the years just not feed well / aggressively and end up not making it. Just feed and dust often and consider a small banana slice located very close to where the frog sits to help it, but even this is far from 100%. Good luck and keep posting if you have questions or problems.


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## sunnysideup (Nov 15, 2018)

Thanks! Not sure how old they are, likely 4-6mo old. When I got them 2wks ago today, they were about 1/2” long. Now, they’re about 3/4” long. 

They weigh about 1.5g. 

They both seem to eat well. I’m just surprised since I used to see 1 turd a day in each QT container. Now, I’m lucky if I get one a day. Again, I don’t think they look bloated. 

I read another thread (for malnourished PDFs), where people recommend feeding FF larvae since they’re fattier. Is it possible the FFs are too fibrous and they need something fattier (ie FF larvae)? Or is that too fatty for PDFs who aren’t malnourished?


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

you want to use small melanogaster flies and not larvae because it's important to get quality superfine powdered supplements - vitamins and especially calcium into them early and often. Maggots are not good for dusting. Using quality supplements often is essential.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

So, rereading everything that's gone on, I see that the frogs have been moved three times (from Petco into QT, then into the viv, then back into QT) and had two trips to the vet, all in two weeks. And they're being medicated. All that is more commotion than most frogs see in their whole lives. I think. 

You won't likely get any sort of useful baseline knowledge about their habits, behavior, and so on until they get into some sort of moderately stress-reduced situation for at least a couple weeks. When I get new frogs, they just like to hide.

As a sort of an aside, if you can actually quantify their fecal habits -- on a daily basis, no less -- I wonder if they have enough secure hiding places (both enough places to hide, and no hands moving their hiding places around). I can't imagine reliably counting frog turds in a few layers of leaves...


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

You are very astute for a new frogger! You are spot on with much of your observations but one - the pooping. You are kinda anthropomorphizing the animals. They don't defecate like us at all. I would only concentrate on them eating and getting fresh supplements and not really worry about the frog-logs for now.


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## sunnysideup (Nov 15, 2018)

Socratic Monologue said:


> So, rereading everything that's gone on, I see that the frogs have been moved three times (from Petco into QT, then into the viv, then back into QT) and had two trips to the vet, all in two weeks. And they're being medicated. All that is more commotion than most frogs see in their whole lives. I think.
> 
> You won't likely get any sort of useful baseline knowledge about their habits, behavior, and so on until they get into some sort of moderately stress-reduced situation for at least a couple weeks. When I get new frogs, they just like to hide.
> 
> As a sort of an aside, if you can actually quantify their fecal habits -- on a daily basis, no less -- I wonder if they have enough secure hiding places (both enough places to hide, and no hands moving their hiding places around). I can't imagine reliably counting frog turds in a few layers of leaves...


I know moving them is stressful, but I felt like I had to in case one was sick so it wouldn’t infect the other. Since they’re in the QT tanks, I’ve kept it simple with a paper towel substrate which I (was) changing daily and some large leaves to hide in (plus a plastic tree stump hide and some plastic leaves suction cupped to the side). Before the QT tanks, it was easy to see the frog poop when I’d mist the tank. Bozo (who I think is a she) liked pooping on the glass (she’d crawl up one side of the tank and poop on it. I think gravity helps her poop). She also likes to poop on the top of plant leaves. During misting, I’d see it and clean it up. In the small QT tank, she’ll poop on the wall or in the water bowl. 

Size-wise, they’re about 3/4” long. Bozo is def bigger; Skye is slightly smaller. I’ve watched them eat and Skye is shy and doesn’t hunt for food as much. I have to dump the flies right in front of her, otherwise she just stays hidden. 

They both seem to be doing much better. However, they poop so sporadically and infrequently I haven’t gotten a good fecal from either of them to send out (lab cutoff times are 10am and 2pm). They poop at night or sometime after 2pm. I’m hoping to change their feeding schedule and see if it changes their poop habits. 

Today’s the last Panacur treatment so I’m hoping I’ll get a good fecal in a couple days that shows no parasites. 

Thank you for all your advice! Appreciate the info and support.


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