# Kevin's Frog Room



## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Well, got a house and got the down stairs 4th bedroom to be my frog room. I decided to go with Protean since he makes tanks that have the slim design that will fit on wire racks to maximize space usage, and has an interesting ventilation system. 

8- 22.5x17x24 Tincs, Leucs, Auratus
6- 15x17x30 Thumbnail
9- 15x17x20 froglet to adult, or they could be used for more thumbnail tanks
1- 21x17x24 incubator tank, for eggs
1- 21x17x18 Morphing tank

I have enough room for a 36" rack which I will use for tadpoles, and another 48" rack for froglet tanks

Since I don't know how to write a comment on the pictures I will put them here. 
1st pic is the over all plans, it is a 10'8"x14' room. 
2nd pic is the tanks after I got them delivered.
3rd pic is the 8-22.5x17x24 tanks on racks
4th pic is the 6-15x17x30, and 9-15x17x20 tanks
5th pic is the 24" rack that will have the 21x17x24, and 21x17x18 tanks. Unfortunately they got damaged on the way here. But will be shipped soon.
6th pic is my current leuc tanks, I will have to part with them sometime to put up the last 2 racks.
7th, and 8th pic is the bug closet
9th pic is the wheels on the racks. I haven't seen anybody use these. But with the amount of space that I got I figured it would be a good idea. For one it gives me space for a drain pan under the rack, plus I could move them if needed (I will be sure to have someone help me move it to prevent it from falling over)

I have an interesting ventilation system on all of the frog tanks, that I will post about when they get here.


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## Lukeomelas (Mar 15, 2005)

Wow, that is pretty impressive. Looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you. Can't wait to see all of those vivs filled with plants and frogs!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

*Re: Kevin's Protean Frog Room*

OMG, that is a sight to behold. That is also quite an impressive investment there. I've spoken to jason about his tanks, and while they are high quality, they are also not cheap. So I think I have a good idea the $$ sitting in that room. Its going to take an equal (or greater) amount to now do the hardscape and planting. Going to be a very impressive frog room with a very clean professional look. Whoever your plant vendor is/will be, your goign to wipe out their available stock in one fell sweep!


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

*Re: Kevin's Protean Frog Room*

It looks great! 

I'd lose the carpet though, if that's an option. The floor in my frog room can get very messy fast. It's nice to be able to sweep and give it a quick mop.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Yes, I was thinking about the carpet also. I do plan to put linoleum down. But the carpet is new, and I really hate to just waste it. The racks will fit through the door. So when they get too dirty, I will just roll them out and redo it.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Yes, very impressive setup and investment! I'm sure most here would drool over a new frog room, new racks, and 25 (if I'm counting correctly) Protean vivs!

Envy.

Looking forward to watching it develop!

-Chris


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Subscribed. Looks good so far hope to see it come together well.
Buddy


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Might want to take a look at this thread if you haven't already. I would secure those wheeled racks to the walls.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/93332-rack-crash.html


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Reef_Haven said:


> Might want to take a look at this thread if you haven't already. I would secure those wheeled racks to the walls.
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/93332-rack-crash.html


i have to agree, be careful with those cheaper racks. i went with the industrial 800lbs racks. theyve been good to me, but they were a bit pricey.








Also, timeline it took me about a year and a half to build and complete my frog room thats the same size as yours. Good luck and cant wait to see it completed


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I can definately understand how that could be tramatic. I would be super pissed. The racks I got have shelves rated at 1,250 lbs per shelf Alera - Wire Shelving Unit, 48 x 18", 4 Shelves - Black - Sam's Club I have been adding extra shelves to give more stability. Once I get the LED power bars, and test how close I can put them I will hopefully be able to add more shelves to the 15x17x30 rack. Since it only has 3 shelves so far. 

The casters are rated for 600 lbs each, so together they can handle 2,400lbs, per rack. Granted I'm not trying to push the limit. Alera - Casters for Wire Shelving Units - 4 Pack - Sam's Club I went for these even though I haven't seen anybody else use them for 2 reasons. First reason is cause I got drains in all of the tanks. I understand that they will work as long as it goes down. But 2" isn't much space for a drain pan, and I couldn't see how anybody else does it. So, this seemed the most logical way. Granted now that I got them, I see that I could have moved the bottom rack up a few inchs, on all of them except the 20" tall tanks. If I left them at 18" I could have pulled it off. The second reason is if I come into any problems that require me to get behind the racks for wiring, drain tubes, etc. I would be screwed, or have a big headache. I will say though they are on wheels, they seem pretty sturdy. I give them a decent tug and seem ok. I wouldn't suggest pulling them out by the mid section or top. I have moved them around by pulling them from the bottom by myself with the tanks empty. If I stick to this setup, I will be sure to have someone else help maneuver them around.

If anybody could chime in on how they did their setup. I would greatly appreciate it. If it seems like it would work for my setup. I would definately consider doing the linoleum floors now, and taking the wheels off. Definately save me some $$ (7 sets) by returning them. 

Thanks for all the compliments everybody, I appreciate it very much. This is going to be a long build. I was planning on taking this on in stages. But Jason made me a deal on the shipping. So I ordered everything at once, to save money.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

use a pump to pull it from the low tanks and into a bucket, works great and as you can see the plugs are 3-4" off the ground. also ditch the carpet hahaha, crazy how bad water is attracted to the floor in the frog room.


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## Amphinityfrogs (Jan 30, 2013)

Looking good so far. Only thing I would be worried about is the racks holding up. I live in fear of mine crashing so I bought the 2000lb a shelf industrial ones. But instead of buying new racks I have seen guys just drill and bolt the shelves to the vertical beams on those baker racks and it seems to hold up. If anything is going to give it will be the plastic clips that support the shelves. Keep posting pictures I'd love to see your progress as you go.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Just looked at the rack rating system, and its changed a LOT. They use to be 600-650 then 800... now they are. 1250 and 2000, but they are the same racks? Hmmm wonder why they did that?


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## Tincman (Jan 18, 2013)

I cant wait to see the end result of your labor... Nothing like a room full of beautiful Species you have passion for... Having space is priceless...


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

That's interesting Motydesign. I have never seen bulkheads in front of the tanks. Do they not leak when the water gets above the bulkhead? I'm guessing they got a valve that holds the water in till there is enough pressure to pull it out, maybe. Can you send me a link of where you got the pump? 
I already got 5/8 holes drilled in the back. I have been tempted to put an on/off valve on the drain line. Drop the line down the back and under the rack. Then when needed I could pull it out, then drain it into a shallow pan. 

If I do find a way to do this setup. I'm wondering what I'm going to do with this shag carpet. Maybe I should put it on the wall. I remember a few people that did that back before they stopped making it for a while.

Oh, on the racks and strength. I might be from adding more wire brackets to the bottom maybe. I have seen racks that just have the outside frame of the shelf for strength. Mine have another strip of wires a few inches inside the frame, on the bottom of the shelf. But maybe it's the same. I can post a pic if need be.


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

I really doubt yours are built like mine, I have main girder beam down the middle that ive never seen on the common racks








In design and engineering calcs the longitudinal support is what will keep it from crashing 

Also id look into more about bulk heads and such. Its a shame youve already drilled. Bulk heads are the way to go screw valves and such theyre too bulky. Youve got a lot to do, dont rush anything. Fully research and understand before committing to the time enery and possible risks. Youll end up with an amazing set up. I hope you plan on doing automated systems with all those.


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## Cody_Stamper (Feb 26, 2013)

Looks like my frogs will have a nice new home soon hopefully!!! Very sweet set up your starting!!


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## Blue_Pumilio (Feb 22, 2009)

I used the bakers racks for years, over 16 racks, and NEVER had a problem. I think it comes down to using a mallet and making sure hey clips are securely in place. I put full 55 gal aquariums on them, over 600 lbs of water and rocks, nothing....and I even had a few racks with two of them!


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

How many vivs and frogs do you have in your collection that will be switching over to these new vivs/racks?

-Chris


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

Ive got about 10 x 29 gal, 11x40 breeders, 6x 5.5 gal, and 2x55s all on racks


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

kitcolebay said:


> How many vivs and frogs do you have in your collection that will be switching over to these new vivs/racks?
> 
> -Chris





> Ive got about 10 x 29 gal, 11x40 breeders, 6x 5.5 gal, and 2x55s all on racks


Sorry, I didn't specify. I was curious what Kevin's current collection was. Didn't know if he was transferring any existing vivs into the racks or redoing all of his vivs. I was curious to what all frogs he had too.

-Chris


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

sorry, figured you were asking me since he listed his tanks on page 1, but i now understand what you were saying.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I currently just got a 24x18x24 exoterra. With 3 Leucs. I actually took one of them out, and put him in a 10 gallon. Cause he was getting skinny, and was falling behind on size. But now he is getting fatter, I might put him back in the big tank soon. 

I prolly jumped on this frog room a little too soon for my experiance level. But I didn't want to get several other tanks, just to get rid of them later. Like I'm going to do with my current exoterra. Eventually I won't have any room for it. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/84518-24x18x24-cork-bark-build.html

Wow, Motydesign! That's alot of tanks. Those tank sizes definately fit the wire racks very well. Plus saves alot on having them customly made.

I'm adding a pic of my shelf. I'm guessing the weight capacity has to do with the reinforcement brackets. Mine have 2 brackets a few inches in from the front and back. Thanks Motydesign, for adding that pic of your shelf. 

I will look into some L brackets to secure the racks to the wall. I may not be able to put the racks directly next to the walls cause of the drains. I will better know that when I get the drain nozzles. Which will come with the vents and 2 other tanks. When I get my last shipment from Protean I will post more about them.

There are lots of stuff I'm looking forward to figureing out. Like how much space I need between the lights and the tanks without heat transference. How the build will go with only a 4" front plate on the tank (I'm planning to ramp the substrate), and much more. But it looks like I'm going to have a pause, to save up. Plus my spouse wasn't too overly happy when I got 23 tanks. Maybe I can do a "check out what I found in my parents basement, it's a LED power strip" But in the mean time, I will see about redoing the floor, and running a power wire into the room. The room is only on a 15 amp breaker. So I will add another breaker, then drill a hole in a few walls and run a stronger line that will have a plug in for each rack.

I do plan to have all of it automated. I have looked into a system that would run it all like the Herpkeeper, but they said my setup is too much for it. Needing more than 4 modules. They recommend the reefkeeper. But that is alot of money. Trying to find something less costly. But if I don't find anything I will go with power strip timers.


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## asunderco (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm really itching to see this ventilation setup you mentioned!


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## motydesign (Feb 27, 2011)

wow thats a newer design, those shelves are better designed now! i guess the companies got tired of hearing about racks breaking. i think you picked some good ones, wish they would have been around when i was buying, could have saved me a small fortune. time to get building hard scape! we want to see frequent updates. 


the lighting height is something you need to spend a bit of time on, and is difficult to get just right. what lights are you planning on using?

this may take a little time to wade through but its my room build (including actually building the room hahah) maybe a few of my failures will help you avoid them.
MOTYDesign's future frog room - Dart Frog Forum on Husbandry and Habitat Information

depending on the room id say we should talk about DIY LEDs and see if we could get you set up on the future of lights.


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## jruffing46 (Jul 10, 2008)

asunderco said:


> I'm really itching to see this ventilation setup you mentioned!


The ventilation system he mentioned is the Eurovent that is on each tank. It is an optional feature on all Protean tanks. Here is a link to the site: Protean Terrarium Design

Kevin:
Looks like a great start and good luck with the build. Great choices on viv sizes. The 15x17x30s and 22x17x24s are my favorites.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I guess I missed it. But what sizes are the 2 you went with?? As mentioned above or others? They look amazing none the less.. And I will be using this thread to convince my girlfriend! lol. How many tanks in all will you have in the room? And what is the size of your frog room if you dont mind my asking!


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

@Motydesign, The lights are going to be interesting. I was planning on going with the LED Powerstrips from LYR. But if I could save some money doing a DIY it would definately be worth looking into, since I got extra time for now. I could work on that while I redo the floors and electrical.
One of the challenges that I will be hoping to work is that the 15x17x20's have 3" of space on 2 shelfs (between the tank and shelf above), and 2" of space on the 3rd shelf (the one I'm worried about). The LED powerstrip is 3/4" in height, leaving 1 and 1/4" of space between the light and tank. I was told that it just needs 1/2" of space between the light and tank. If that is true, then it will work fine. 
I plan to setup the lights, then put a thermometer to track temperatures. The exoterra electronic thermometer Exo Terra : Thermometer / Digital Thermometer - Digital Precision Instrument which will keep track of the high and low temps through the day.
I will read through your thread shortly.

@jruffing46, the ventilation that I will be getting was designed by Alberto. This is the link http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/90336-playing-ventilation.html this will be an interesting conversation. But I'm going to wait till I have them. To better explain it. I will have plenty of pictures.

@Nismo95, in the end I will have 25 tanks, not counting the froglet tanks that will come much later, and will prolly be the normal 10 gallon tanks. I got 23 of the tanks now, and 2 of them got broke on the way. The incubator, and morphing tank. He is going to remake and send them with the ventilation pieces. The sizes of the tanks are on my first post. 
Hopefully my thread will help you if you decide to make a frog room. This is why I'm making the thread. To share info with all of the other wonderful froggers out there that can either help or learn from me. I'm going to do my best to explain everything from beginning to the end of this build. 
Plus if you decide to build a frog room with 72" racks like mine. Just a heads up. There is only 68" of space to use. 3" are lost on the bottom, and 1" on the top. Irronically I got my racks AFTER, I got the tanks. I read about losing 1" on top, but not the 3" on bottom. It was a, surprize! You just lost 3 more inches of space than you planned. 
Oh, my room is 10'8"x14', and the bug closet is 10'8"x2'. I'm barely leaving room for a desk (which will be under the window). But oh-well, laptops don't take up much space.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

So you say they are 72 inch racks but losing 4 inches total between the top and bottom.. Are you saying they are 72 inches tall? or meaning the length of them?? I assume they are the 48x18x72 racks, correct?


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

Also.. terribly sorry to bug but you cant post pictures of these beauties without atleast ONE person buggin the hell out of you. haha. I am so used to seeing proteans vivs with euro vents. Mind taking a picture of how he did the bottom of yours?? Is it just a single pane of glass with tracks on it? I wouldnt have guessed 1 pane even at 1/4 inch would be enough surface area to place a track on it.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

He put a strip of glass like a lip on it for the tracks. I attached a pic.

The racks are 72" tall. After your put the racks on there is 68" from the top of the bottom rack, to the top of the top rack. 

To explain differently, the bottom shelf starts at 3", and you lose an inch on the top.

I wonder if anybody uses shelf liners. I would think that the liners would prevent the tanks from scratching the paint and rusting. But maybe they would have disadvantages also.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I know of a few people that have had some sheets of plywood cut to size for their shelves. Just a bit more weight but probably helps distribute weight more evenly too. Atleast thats why they claim to do it lol


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

Hi Kevin, Time for an update!!! 

Your room and tanks look amazing. I'd be so overwhelmed with all those tanks to fill ... I'm looking forward to seeing the next update. Congrat's on Bandit starting to call, that exciting news to hear. 

Duff


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## RibbidyReptiles (Jul 14, 2012)

kevin575 said:


> He put a strip of glass like a lip on it for the tracks. I attached a pic.
> 
> The racks are 72" tall. After your put the racks on there is 68" from the top of the bottom rack, to the top of the top rack.
> 
> ...


I have seen people with racks for fish tanks with plywood board. I guessing that it helps distribute the weight better because tanks filled with water weigh a LOT!!!


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

SOOOOO Kevin.. Where are the updates? lol.


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## Duff (Aug 4, 2011)

Yea, what Nismo95 said! Long overdue


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Sorry for the long wait (the informing posts somehow ended up in my spam folder).

I'm currently rewiring the room. The frog, and laundry room is wired to a one 15 amp switch. So I am running a 20 amp, and a 15 amp line directly into the frog room from the breaker box.

I have an order of fake rocks coming from Vivarium Works

Got a bunch of ghost wood, seed pods, wooden vines, etc.

But best of all! I got some LEDs in today. I got them from Build My LED Custom LED Lights for DIY Horticulture Aquarium Hobby Lighting I will add a few pics. I only ordered 2 cause for one I wanted to try them out first, and two I'm not rich, lol.
I'm thinking of putting my exoterra on the shelf to see how well it lights it.

I'm currently still waiting for the rest of my stuff. 2 tanks, fan tops, and bulkheads that fit a 5/8 hole (he said they are specially made). So unfortunately I'm kinda stuck for the time being.
I did order 2 exoterra temp gauges that record temps through the day. To test the tanks that have 2" of space between the shelf and the top of the tank. I'm interested in seeing if 3 sets of 20" tall tanks will work on a 72" rack. Since I don't got the components yet, I will find something to cover the bulk head hole and top vent.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

Has to be exciting! Looking forward to seeing it develop! 

-Chris


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

My first shelf will be a Rock build. I just got my rocks in from Vivarium Works Here are a few pics. The blue tape is the measurement of the inside of the 2 tanks. Did that so I could just get an idea of the placement. 

I will have more pics of this build on my photobucket nickerson575's Library | Photobucket in the rock build album


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

I'm trying to think of something to fill in the gaps between the rocks. Of course there is Great Stuff foam. But I don't want to lose the ledges that the rocks provide. 

I was thinking of something like crushed tree fern, or ABG mix. I would stuff it with sphagnum moss, but I think there will be too much space between the rocks. Would appreciate any thoughts.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Redone the electrical. The whole frog room and laundry room ran on one 15 amp switch. So I ran a 20 amp, and a 15 amp line into the room. 

The racks rolled right out of the room with ease.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Ok I'm going to hit up the LEDs. 

I was originally planning on going with the power bars from Light Your Reptiles. They are very slim. But he stopped making them, since he was having trouble with them being made at the factory. But he was nice to send me to Build My LED Custom LED Lights for DIY Horticulture Aquarium Hobby Lighting and he told me the chip setup he had. He had 1:1:1 4.5k-5.5k-7k. Buildmyled didn't have the exact match up but I did 4.5k-5.7k-6.5k so I think it's close enough. I got a small thread about it Bakers rack vivarium lights | Build My LED - Lighting Discussion Forum Buildmyled built my lights to fit a 48" rack by making them 45". I only got 2 lights so far, but I plan to get more.

Another idea I'm thinking of doing is to have 2 LED strips per shelf. One with cool chips in it, which make it bright (higher lumens) but covers more of the green and blue light spectrum. The second light will have warm chips which aren't as bright, but have more of the yellow, and red. Having both of them will maximize the light spectrum.
I would run the light with warm chips for a few hours for morning. Run the cool chips light for mid day, then back to the warm chips light for dawn. Plus I plan to have some moonlight LEDs for night time.
There are a lot of new LEDs coming out, but they don't qualify for the limited amount of space that I got. But anyways here is a few pics of the light that I do got.


LED4 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


LED1 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


LED2 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr


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## pavochavo (Nov 21, 2012)

This whole room is going to be killer! I can't wait to see more updates as things progress!

Robert


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Good to know I'm not boring everybody, lol. I was kinda wondering if I was. I noticed that nobody has posted an actual room being build, so I figured I would make one. I guess I will talk about the automated system that I got from Digital Aquatics. Digital Aquatics

This is my desk, 

106_1568 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

The head unit and temperature gauge are next to the laptop. I haven't decided where I going to permanently place it yet. I will probably use some double sided tape and stick it on the wall.

106_1570 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

The Herpkeeper has a lot of options like ramping CFL's, Lunar Moonlight cycle, control temperatures, etc. But I'm not using all the functions cause it's just too costly, plus I'm not sure if it could handle everything in my room. So the original plan that I had and still may do is. Use the Herpkeeper to control my heater, and A/C unit (not installed yet, will be in window over computer desk). Then I was going to use a power strip at every rack. Like this one ShopBLT.com: APC Surgearrest 6out 120v Power-Saving Timer Essential! 

The Herpkeeper can only handle 4 modules (power strips), so having one PC4 (the module in the picture) for each rack isn't possible.

106_1573 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
I will give a closer look.

106_1576 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr
The power strip can have up to 8 amps on channel 1 and 4, and up to 3 amps on 2 and 3. But.. together can't go over 15 amps. This dawned an idea for me. I could hook up multiple lights to one plug in. The LED lights I got right now are rated at 70 watts. So one socket (1 or 4) could handle up to 960 watts (8 amps) which could handle 13 lights like the LED that I got. But I only need 9 lights. The 9 cool chip lights could be on channel 1, and the 9 warm chip lights could be on channel 4 (that is if I do the 2 lights per shelf, I may just do one per shelf cause of cost). Then I am hoping to have a moon light LED for every tank, which that shouldn't be much wattage, so hopefully it could go on channel 2, or 3. 
The bad part is that I already put a socket at every rack, and that could end up being a mess of wires going around. But I think I can come up with an interesting wiring setup. It's not hard to make an extension cord with multiple plug-ins.

Now for the other module, The heater runs up to 1500 watts (12.5 amps), which is too much for the PC4. So I ordered the PC1 which has 2 slots. On the PC1 I will have the heater, and A/C unit hooked up to it

106_1571 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

Well that's it for my electrical for now. Hope I explained it to where it's understandable.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Looks like a fire hazard ;-)..


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Well I been wanting to try the LED's and didn't have room before. But I moved some stuff off one rack and put the LED on it. Then moved my exoterra under it to see what it will look like. 

I also put a T5 22" light that was on my 10 gallon over the exoterra. It's a soft white so it has a yellow glow which is good for morning and dawn cycle. I'm thinking of going this route. One LED bar, and one T5 bulb. It's definately a cheaper way to go. I will have to think about it.

This idea of using a LED and a T5 isn't new. I heard of a few people that do this. But I didn't realize how nice of a dawn and dusk effect it would have.

It's definitely different from the Jungle Dawns. It's not crazy bright. But maybe the frogs will like having more dark areas.

I tried taking pics of both lights being on, and just the T5. But you can't tell the difference through the cam pics. So there is no point in posting pics of it. But I will post a pic of the lights above the tank.


106_1608 by nickerson_kevin, on Flickr

The problem I been starting to see is that there are a lot of dark spots in my tank because my background is 3" thick, and the light is in the center. I would move the light farther forward. But then it will have to shine through the vent, which I would think will lower the amount of light getting through because of the screen and border of the vent. The vent is placed 3.5" back from the front, and the vent itself is 3.5". So having a LED in the center, and a T5 over the screen seems like a good idea. I will probably have the T5 as a daylight bulb. 

Maybe keeping the background simple is a better idea. My first build has been planned to have fake rocks which protrude out about 4", 6-7 on the bottom, so it would cast a lot of shadows. I could make the rocks thin on top about 1", and then gradually get bigger. Which was generally my plan, just wasn't planning to go down to 1".

If anybody has a setup like this on bakers racks. I would love to hear what kind of lights you used, and if you just went with T5's how much space do you need between the lights and the tanks to prevent heat transference?
After a 70 watt LED, and a 54 watt bulb. I don't think I'm saving much on electricity. So I might see about going with just 2 T5's.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

kevin575 said:


> I'm trying to think of something to fill in the gaps between the rocks. Of course there is Great Stuff foam. But I don't want to lose the ledges that the rocks provide.
> 
> I was thinking of something like crushed tree fern, or ABG mix. I would stuff it with sphagnum moss, but I think there will be too much space between the rocks. Would appreciate any thoughts.


Aquarium filter pad from Foster and Smith, covered with hygrolon

Aquarium Filter Media: Drs Foster and Smith Mechanical filter Media

Super cheap, really clean and easy to work with, easily cut, and amazing for plant growth


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## tinkgirl77 (Dec 30, 2012)

The filter is a great idea , thanks for the helpful tidbit!


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## ggazonas (May 11, 2008)

Do you have styrofoam our some sort of protective layer to place under the all glass tanks. They will need something to lay on so they don't crack.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

ggazonas said:


> Do you have styrofoam our some sort of protective layer to place under the all glass tanks. They will need something to lay on so they don't crack.


No I don't, but I could put some shelf liners under them. I didn't know people used styrofoam under their tanks.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Well my first shelf build is here in case anybody is interested http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/132026-rock-build.html

It's been a while. But I just got some strip lights from LED Lighting | LED Light Bulbs | LED Strip Lights & Tubes | HitLights . The reason I went with these is cause they can be cut, and reattached. Plus I wanted something cheap that would be sufficient for juvenile tanks.
Originally I was hoping that one strip per shelf would be sufficient. But it didn't seem to be enough. The strip is 4 watts per foot. With 2 strips per shelf that would make it 32 watts per shelf.
In order to get the lights attached to the rack. I cut some reticulated plastic cardboard, and put holes in it with a soldering gun. Then zip-tied it to the shelf. 
The bad parts are that when you reattach them, it's a little frustrating getting the light to connect with the connector, and when it is connected, it's very touchy. One small touch will cause it to turn off. The next bad part about them is that they don't stick to the 3M tape very well. The lights keep coming off the tape that I received them with. It's not the tape coming off the reticulated plastic cardboard. Have had a few times when I came down to find the light laying on the tanks. I quickly took it off and checked the temps of the tanks. They were still 74 degrees. So I decided to put some scotch tape to help hold it up.

Here are a few pics.

This shows the reticulated plastic

this one is a view from the floor (under)

pic somewhat showing the light inside one of the juvenile tanks. Sorry no frogs, I scared them off installing the lights.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

How much did your led fixtures cost you? Tried to look over their site but was having difficulty on my phone. Looks great!

And I mean the ones you got for the main tanks not the strip lights


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

The lights were $250 or so each. Kinda expensive verses what new stuff is out now. But i can say that they will build the light to the length you want also. Since I needed mine to fit the backers rack. So instead of being 48" they are 45". Plus they are very bright. I actually put a dimmer switch on it to dim it down a little. Everything was turning green from algea. Even the coco hut, in a 24" tall tank.

But i do wish it had at least a dawn/dusk option. If I ever put something else in there. That would be why.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

That price tag was what I was afraid of lol. I am in the process of actually copying your tank specs for a frog room over haul. And will face the same issues with lights in the bakers racks.


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## Chung (Mar 1, 2015)

Any updates on this great build? and yes I'm a newb.


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Oh yeah, a lot of stuff, and not much at the same time.

I just went through the thread to see where I left off. It's been a while.

For one, don't buy tanks from the guy I bought mine from. I won't say who on here, but PM me and I will tell. In short, they bailed, and I'm stuck fixing them.

I started out using filter foam as a false bottom with my first 2 tanks. That was a fail. The water got stagnant. Granted it was interesting seeing it drain. The filter is 2" thick, the bulk head is 1" from the bottom. The water would get up to 1.75" before it would drain. When it did start draining, it would drain it to where there is .25" of water left.
So basically it needed enough water in it to start pushing water down the drain line. Once it was started, it would keep going, doing a siphoning effect, till there wasn't enough water to keep going.
It was a surprise when I first started to discover this process. One day my drain pan was dry, the next it was almost overflowing.
Then I decided to show a friend. I added a few cups of water to get it started, and when it started. The water wreaked of sulfur, from the water becoming stagnant.

It took me a while, but I got 4 of them fixed (not fun), 2 of them are setup, and the other 2 are ready for plants, and frogs. Here is a pic.


I'm looking into getting orchids for this build. But given the cold weather, and not much knowledge of orchids. Is slowing me on that.


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## Chung (Mar 1, 2015)

Well being a newbie, I thought I subscribed to this thread and I did not and it took me a bit to find it - so here I am again. Got it subscribed this time lol.

I have read all over the board (and internet) where you got your viv's from - so I"m steering well clear on that note when I do make my foray into the hobby, (still researching and reading tons). It's a shame and I feel for those that committed there (and their wallets as everything in life is so hard earned). So it seems folks have to use exo, zoo or build their own vivs and that's another major decision to be made.

I like the bakers racks but I don't like the waste of shelf space when using exo or zoo and I don't like the small footprint of them (the 18" depth) either but i think a few exo's to get my feet wet would be fine to start with and just build my own wood racks.

I've been curious as to whether or not the bottom of some vivs can or do turn anaerobic. (the sulfur smell) Drainage being the culprit of course and whether they need to be flushed out from time to time.

I like the 'scape (flow through design) in the pic above - looks real sharp to my eye! I've have seen a couple of threads where folks say don't do it because if you have to do a tear down on one - its all over but to each his own I think. Orchids, yeah they'd be sweet but do require a certain touch. Maybe a couple in a separate viv to get the feel for them first? That way you wouldn't have to re-scape or disturb an established viv down the road. 

All in all though, I'm enjoying your thread and will continue to read on...


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## kevin575 (May 7, 2012)

Yeah, I would prefer to have the 24" wide racks instead. But that would change my whole layout in my room. So I will make do with 18" depth.

Got some new plants today, from Glass Box Tropicals - Terrarium Plants, Poison Dart Frogs, Terrarium Supplies and Micro Feeders

Here are a few pics, I could put the post the plant list, if anybody wants to see it.











I actually should have ordered more, I see at least 3 more spots where I could put more. But I will wait to see how these turn out.


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## Chung (Mar 1, 2015)

Now that the substrate is in and with a couple of plants, I can say that I REALLY like the layout of your design. It flows very well. Its going to look superb when its filled in. Looking forward to seeing more...


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