# New guy intro and "why shouldn't I get a frog?"



## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Hi there!
I am new to the board and I am doing research for a vivarium project. I wasn't going to do any Fauna but you "frog" folks may have changed my mind.  There are some amazing set ups and very talented folks on this forum!
I am coming from a planted aquarium background which I have been into for about 1.5 years. I found during the time I have an affinity toward plants. 
(Who knew???lol)
Here is a quick pic for those who might be interested.









I am a research fanatic and tend to submerse (pardon the pun) myself in my projects. If I do undertake a frog set up I will do ALOT of homework before I start. I wont just 'jump" in to it. (again with the puns!)

Anyway...enough with the intro but I thought if I was going to be spending some time here I shouldn't be lurking. 

One question from you at this point since we are all here....

I have seen plenty of reasons to GET a frog so far, how about a telling me a few why I should NOT get one! Noise? Maintenance? Are there things I may not have considered? What do you wish you had known?


I look forward to asking plenty more questions as they come!
Thanks a bunch,
Nate


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

It's a sickness. Once you have some you won't be able to stop. I just got my first frogs and already I can't wait to get more. They are amazing little animals.


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## ryangreenway (Apr 30, 2010)

Honestly, I can't think of any reasons why not to get a frog. I have never regretted getting mine, and I can't see why anyone else would, this hobby is great. 

Edit:
I will have to agree with Vermfly,it is an addiction, but that's not a bad thing at all!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I wish I had known that you can't get just one. There's always another tank and another frog around the corner. 

Seriously, I have not found a downside yet to frogs. I love the calls. The maintenance is minimal. It's very soothing just to watch them do their froggy thing after a crappy day at work.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello Nate,
I had the exact same situation as you, I used loved planted tanks and aquascaping, and then I found this hobby. The planted tanks are so much work, and never seemed to turn out as nice as I thought they would. Vivariums require little maintenance and if set up well, can look amazing! The frogs are the best part too, they require little maintenance too and are beautiful and amazing in every way. Here's a picture of my first, and last, planted tank:









Then I moved onto my first vivarium, and the addiction started there. Here's a recent viv I just set up:









It looks like you are on the right track, do all the research you can before setting up the vivarium and frogs, and try to do it right the first time. Good luck!


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

UH OH..I may be in trouble then! " MTS" (multi tank syndrome) is something I am very familiar with. 
I have been around the forums about a week or so and I have managed to do a fair bit of reading so far. You really are a helpful group of people who genuinely care about what you do with these animals. 

I did some looking into the local "reptile and amphibian" store and found many terrible ( I cannot emphasize the word terrible enough here) reviews.I also refuse to shop in chain pet stores. (I wont mention any specific stores since I am not familiar with the forum regarding this) I live in a small area so they would be my only local source for supplies. I will be supporting the forum sponsors and classifieds for all of my needs.


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Sorry for the double post.

Wow Mitch...great looking tank and viv!
Is that Blyxa Japonica in the foreground? My tank has grown up a bit since the pic was taken and our tanks could be brother and sister! LOL


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

> I will be supporting the forum sponsors and classifieds for all of my needs.


Good for you! I highly recommend this. Stay away from pet stores and the random Internet for frogs, imo. The sponsors here are upstanding folks with good stuff. Also the members who post in the classifieds are usually good to deal with too. Most will have feedback that you can check out.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Nate Mcfin said:


> UH OH..I may be in trouble then! " MTS" (multi tank syndrome) is something I am very familiar with.
> I have been around the forums about a week or so and I have managed to do a fair bit of reading so far. You really are a helpful group of people who genuinely care about what you do with these animals.
> 
> I did some looking into the local "reptile and amphibian" store and found many terrible ( I cannot emphasize the word terrible enough here) reviews.I also refuse to shop in chain pet stores. (I wont mention any specific stores since I am not familiar with the forum regarding this) I live in a small area so they would be my only local source for supplies. I will be supporting the forum sponsors and classifieds for all of my needs.


The sponsors are great here, I buy everything from them and have never had a problem.



Nate Mcfin said:


> Sorry for the double post.
> 
> Wow Mitch...great looking tank and viv!
> Is that Blyxa Japonica in the foreground? My tank has grown up a bit since the pic was taken and our tanks could be brother and sister! LOL


Our tanks are very similar! The foreground is Dwarf Hair Grass, the plant in the back left is Blyxa.


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## crzsnwbdr (Sep 23, 2010)

frogface said:


> I wish I had known that you can't get just one. There's always another tank and another frog around the corner.


Haha, I really wish I could get as addicted and collect as many as you all seem to have. It really does seem like a fun hobby, and all the various frogs and colors are too cool to pass up. Too bad the only ones I can get here, I would have to hunt for in the tropics myself! =P


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey nate,
I too am just about to dive into the dart hobby. I currently have a crested gecko and built a viv for him using information from this site. Over the past year I've done a significant amount of reading and until recently I started paying attention to the information about the frogs themselves.

There's a reptile expo coming up in a month, so I decided to take the opportunity to grab myself my first pair of frogs. I'm especially nervous abour culturing flies. I've talked to a few people on here and seem to understand what I'm getting into. 

The most advice I've received from everyone on here is to start culturing way before you get your frogs!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

crzsnwbdr said:


> Haha, I really wish I could get as addicted and collect as many as you all seem to have. It really does seem like a fun hobby, and all the various frogs and colors are too cool to pass up. Too bad the only ones I can get here, I would have to hunt for in the tropics myself! =P


Hah yea, but, you've already gone from one froglet to three.


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Regalia said:


> The most advice I've received from everyone on here is to start culturing way before you get your frogs!


 Thanks for the great advice Regalia! What type of frogs are you going to be getting?


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## eldalote2 (Jun 3, 2009)

Darts are an illness. I went from none to 18 in a little (and I do mean a very little) over a year. Its incredibly rewarding when your little froglets start laying eggs of their own. Good luck with setting up your first viv!


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## c3paco (Sep 1, 2010)

I have to started thinking on the set up im ging to put together. I have boght over the last 6 months some suplys i have posted a few threads to find out more. I have a tank that i think am going to use im taking it apart so i can take the front glas to get cut and put a dor in. Evry one here has been mutch help and any question one has will be answerd. To all the folks that have years in this hobby thanks for all ur help.


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## crzsnwbdr (Sep 23, 2010)

frogface said:


> Hah yea, but, you've already gone from one froglet to three.


Very true~ =P Let's hope the parents decide to breed some more soon! Next time I'll know to start on the vivariums while they're still tadpoles. Hahaha.


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## RNKot (Jun 9, 2010)

Noise from many species. 
Cultivating drosophila. 
Sharp temperature conditions.
Vacation not more a week.

But you get YOUR frogs...


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## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

But wait!
The upside to the downsides mentioned by RKNot:

Noise from many species. - most folks find this to be very soothing, and there are many more species are totally silent when they call.

Cultivating drosophila. - once you get your cultures going, you won't have to spend a dime on frogchow for months and months

Sharp temperature conditions. - this is why we have fans and heaters

Vacation not more a week. - you'd be surprised at how many of your friends/neighbors would LOVE to tend to your frogs

As others have said, it is truly an addiction. I started my frogs back in 2003, and there are folks on this forum who been at it a lot longer, no regrets.

I'm so glad you're doing your homework first, and welcome aboard to Dendroboard!


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks for the welcomes and replies everyone!
Thanks for the info rnkot and guppygal!

For what its worth my alarm clock went off this morning and I woke up to a "great stuff" commercial....coincidence?  
BTW- great stuff is on sale this week at ACE Hardware for $6.00 a can. Now if Petco would have another $1 a gallon sale!


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

Well I'm hoping that they'll have thumbnails at the expo I'm going to. My tank is a 12x12x12 exo terra, which is a little on the small side for most darts. But its the only thing I have at the moment. Eventually I could upgrade them to a bigger tank but for now a couple in the cube will do. 

I'm leaning towards the Imitator or Vent thumbs. What about you?


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## crzsnwbdr (Sep 23, 2010)

Nate Mcfin said:


> BTW- great stuff is on sale this week at ACE Hardware for $6.00 a can. Now if Petco would have another $1 a gallon sale!


Wow, what's the non-sale price at ACE? I bought my first can of Great Stuff yesterday from Home Depot (no-sale) for $4.48 before tax. Try checking there if you have one nearby. ^^


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Regalia said:


> Well I'm hoping that they'll have thumbnails at the expo I'm going to. My tank is a 12x12x12 exo terra, which is a little on the small side for most darts. But its the only thing I have at the moment. Eventually I could upgrade them to a bigger tank but for now a couple in the cube will do.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the Imitator or Vent thumbs. What about you?


 Well, without alot of research in yet its tough to say but from what I have seen so far a good frog to start with for me would be auratus or azureus. Those are the two I am leaning toward at the moment and both are quite amazing from the vids, pics, etc. I have seen.



crzsnwbdr said:


> Wow, what's the non-sale price at ACE? I bought my first can of Great Stuff yesterday from Home Depot (no-sale) for $4.48 before tax. Try checking there if you have one nearby. ^^


 Good to know. It isnt too much difference considering I will only need a can or two but hey if it buys me a Starbucks on the way home...


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## angry gary (Dec 9, 2009)

i would go azureus or leucs. auratus tend to be shy frogs that hide alot. i picked up a few earlier this year. i saw them for the first month or so until the tank really grew in. i might see one every now and then.

also where are you located?

AG


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

angry gary said:


> i would go azureus or leucs. auratus tend to be shy frogs that hide alot. i picked up a few earlier this year. i saw them for the first month or so until the tank really grew in. i might see one every now and then.
> 
> also where are you located?
> 
> AG


 Sorry, I changed my profile. I am from Grants Pass, Oregon (southern Oregon)


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## vjf000 (Jun 14, 2008)

One little problem, the fruit fly culture smell.
I highly recommend culturing the flies in a cabinet of some sort, like a plastic closed you buy for storage, put a strong air pump inside, seal up obvious openings and vent outside or through a DIY carbon cartridge. All info can be found on this forum. The above method works great after over a year of wife complaining about bad smell in a large house with the cultures in the basement!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Put cinnamon in your cultures and they smell like fruit fly cookies


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

frogface said:


> Put cinnamon in your cultures and they smell like fruit fly cookies


 HAHAH...My wife is Diabetic so they better be made with Splenda!
Does the cinnamon actually work?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yes it does! It also works as a mold inhibitor.


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## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

I like Frogface's cinnamon idea - mmmmm, good!

I use my empty plastic water bottles to culture flies. I've never noticed an odor, maybe because the opening is so small.

Leucs rock!! The males sing like a bird and you can keep them in groups. I've found out that they're very easy to breed, if you go that route.

You're gonna have sooo much fun...!!


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

Get your frogs. You know you are going to no matter what people say.

But create another tank as a frogless terrarium.
Without frogs, you can be much freer with plant choice, design, and access to fiddle with, move things around, pick this dead leaf off, place that very delicate little jewel that even the tiniest frog would stomp. Experiment with airflow, spraying, watering. It can be a showcase, too.


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

candm519 said:


> Get your frogs. You know you are going to no matter what people say.
> 
> But create another tank as a frogless terrarium.
> Without frogs, you can be much freer with plant choice, design, and access to fiddle with, move things around, pick this dead leaf off, place that very delicate little jewel that even the tiniest frog would stomp. Experiment with airflow, spraying, watering. It can be a showcase, too.


 Wow, good info and makes me wonder....how much do frogs limit the types of plants and work you can do inside the viv. Honestly it was plants that brought me here and I hope to be able " scape" the way I want. Do you guys use that word with vivs or is it aquariums only?" lol
If I had to choose between flora or fauna, that may make me steer toward a terrarium only.


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

That's why I suggested making both.

I ultimately decided to wait on frogs; I spent enough years taking care wonderful strange species with picky needs. Not saying I won't get them eventually though.

My big tank is an attempt to remember Costa Rica. My sticks represent the huge tree limbs, covered there with lots of big broms, orchids, etc. Mine are covered with tiny tillies mostly, supermini orchids, etc., for an impression. The smallest neos that frogs might like simply overwhelm my proportions. I don't want frog poop on my most delicate treasures. My floor and walls are sculpted steeply, with rocks that may be sharp, for my needs. I don't need to save an area--or most of the floor--for frog-friendly leaf litter. I can use Sluggo all I want to. Frogless can be just plain different, and reward different creative needs in your soul.

I just realized what I'm really doing; I'm playing dollhouses with nature. 

And even with no frogs, this is the best site I've found for ideas and friends and plant sources and instructions and information for any kind of enclosed plant spaces. Check out the Plants section stickies and conversations!


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I definitely don't think you have to make a decision between plants/frogs. You can use such a wide array of plants in a frog viv, I really don't see a limiting factor, unless you are wanting to use arid climate plants. Everything from cloud forest orchids to bog loving utricularias are being used with success. I think it just takes a little planning.
Frog poop is an AWESOME fertilizer, your plants will thank you. As for slugs... a 10 percent bleach soak of your plants for a few minutes before placement in the viv goes a LONG WAY. 
In my opinion, leaf litter is GREAT for frogs and microfauna populations, but isnt necessary. You can have a moss carpet and healthy frogs, as long as you are willing to provide the frogs with enough insect/arthopod life. 
I think also that you think darts are a lot more delicate than they really are. You would be amazed at how resilient they are. Your mini orchids are 10 times more sensitive


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## candm519 (Oct 15, 2006)

Yes! I'll state more strongly what I said: Nate needs frogs. Nate should have some frogs. From his whole approach, I believe he'd be an awesome keeper, and get great pleasure from watching and learning from and about them. 

He can also have a plants only terrarium. And get great pleasure from watching and learning from and about his plants. No choice needed, no decision necessary.

For me, for now, and for many reasons, no frogs.


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Thank you all so much for the great info and warm invite. I am a plant guy at heart but I do believe as candm519 said "I need a frog, I should have a frog" 
Thanks for believing in my approach candm519! 
do you have a build thread? I looked at some old pictures of one of your set ups and they look very nice!

I have a lot of reading to do before anything will be written in stone but I am pretty convinced I will do some grout and styrofoam work. I spent 4 hours reading the "how to" thread today and I dont know if the OP "HX" is still around or not but wow...what a gifted person!
Thanks again everyone!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I started out looking for ideas for a plants only terrarium. I ended up with frogs. 

Recently I emptied the frogs out of one of my tanks and decided to make that my coveted plants only terrarium. It was a lot of fun to build and looks good. However, I keep forgetting about it, as I spend all my time watching my frogs. 

It's probably a little dry by now. I should go mist it, but, I'll probably get sidetracked by the sips that are trying to mate in a tank nearby


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

frogface said:


> It's probably a little dry by now. I should go mist it, but, I'll probably get sidetracked by the sips that are trying to mate in a tank nearby


LOL! 
It sounds like you need to get your plants some frogs. 
it seems like 1 tank is almost unheard of here huh?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Nate Mcfin said:


> LOL!
> It sounds like you need to get your plants some frogs.
> it seems like 1 tank is almost unheard of here huh?


Hah! Try it. Try your one little tank and your one little frog. I dare you


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## yours (Nov 11, 2007)

Well Nate, I have to admit...I am COMPLETELY excited and enthusiastic for you! This is a bold new world waiting for you right this very moment....should you choose to EMBRACE YOUR DESTINY and be a part of it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For me, I just about DOUBLED the amount of tanks within the last couple of months....been in the hobby for nearly three years and there are NO plans of slowing down anytime soon!!  

The plantscaping is really a very enjoyable part of the hobby, but truly....one must never forget...about the true JEWELS of the RAINFOREST!!! It's funny how in the wild, the colors help ward away would-be predators...but for us,the hobbyist, it is most appealing and appeasing for all of our senses.....

The most poisonous frog in the world.....how can one NOT want a PHYLLOBATES TERRIBILIS in their collection????????

Haha...ohhhh, the doors with which you open for yourself Nate.....come.....step forward....take off your jacket.....please.....embrace this destiny of yours!!!! Hehe *grin*



Alex


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

yours said:


> Well Nate, I have to admit...I am COMPLETELY excited and enthusiastic for you! This is a bold new world waiting for you right this very moment....should you choose to EMBRACE YOUR DESTINY and be a part of it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> For me, I just about DOUBLED the amount of tanks within the last couple of months....been in the hobby for nearly three years and there are NO plans of slowing down anytime soon!!
> 
> ...




Very inspiring... bravo, bravo!


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Regalia said:


> Very inspiring... bravo, bravo!


 Inspiring indeed!!
I feel like Luke when Vader was telling him he was his father. LOL 
"Coooome toooo the Daaaarksiiiide"


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## botanyboy03 (Apr 18, 2009)

You can never have just one or 2. I have 2 right now and am about to get another 2, 2 azureus froglets from a local breeder at the end of next week, and I also want some leucomelas, but they will have to wait a little longer. I just need to get that second 20H fixed up with another clay background and then I will be set for the leucs.


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

botanyboy03 said:


> You can never have just one or 2. I have 2 right now and am about to get another 2, 2 azureus froglets from a local breeder at the end of next week, and I also want some leucomelas, but they will have to wait a little longer. I just need to get that second 20H fixed up with another clay background and then I will be set for the leucs.


Dude, as i said earlier in this post. I'm waiting for the reptile expo next month before I get my first two frogs. I was at my local pet store this afternoon and I noticed that in the very tiny reptile section they had a 15x15x15 european-style glass viv with front ventilation and sliding doors. I got so excited and asked for the price. Turns out it was $40 and it came with a stand too. I snatched it right away.

Point of the story... I dont even have my first frogs and I'm already panning a tank for my next ones.


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

crzsnwbdr said:


> Haha, I really wish I could get as addicted and collect as many as you all seem to have. It really does seem like a fun hobby, and all the various frogs and colors are too cool to pass up. Too bad the only ones I can get here, I would have to hunt for in the tropics myself! =P


I wish i could hunt them myself!!


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## EricS (Aug 22, 2010)

I am only in the first stages of planning to build my first viv, and I have the collecting bug. I, fortunately, have a built in vaccine against adding more than 1 more enclosure...all available space is taken up by my fish collection, there is literally only 1 more small shelf that will hold an enclosure in my entire house. If you don't already have an ongoing obcession, you will probably be inundated with frogs in a few years.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

EricS said:


> I am only in the first stages of planning to build my first viv, and I have the collecting bug. I, fortunately, have a built in vaccine against adding more than 1 more enclosure...all available space is taken up by my fish collection, there is literally only 1 more small shelf that will hold an enclosure in my entire house. If you don't already have an ongoing obcession, you will probably be inundated with frogs in a few years.


So you think. Soon you will be draining those fish tanks. That's right, it happens. Just ask some of these former fish people


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## DougP (Feb 9, 2010)

EricS said:


> I am only in the first stages of planning to build my first viv, and I have the collecting bug. I, fortunately, have a built in vaccine against adding more than 1 more enclosure...all available space is taken up by my fish collection, there is literally only 1 more small shelf that will hold an enclosure in my entire house. If you don't already have an ongoing obcession, you will probably be inundated with frogs in a few years.





frogface said:


> So you think. Soon you will be draining those fish tanks. That's right, it happens. Just ask some of these former fish people


I agree 100%. I used to be into fish, had a few tanks. (lost them all in an ice storm 4 years ago. No power for 4 days.) I only have one frog tank right now but I can tell you that it is so much better than fish and I already have a second tank sitting empty just waiting for me to start building.

Doug


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

frogface said:


> So you think. Soon you will be draining those fish tanks. That's right, it happens. Just ask some of these former fish people


Agreed


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

The fish in my tanks just read this post and are having emergency meetings as I type. 


I am a little concerned about the temps in my room at night. I like the AC on all night for all except the coldest months. I just cant sleep in room that is too warm. This is where the frogs would likely need to be. Is there ways to heat the tank itself and not the room?


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

You can get one of those heat pads that you stick on to the underside or side of the tank. They're not too expensive and sold at any pet store or online.

I have the same problem. During the day my tank is at 24.7 Celsius so like 76f but at night, it drops down to 19 which is a little chilly but I can't sleep in a warm room.


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

Regalia said:


> You can get one of those heat pads that you stick on to the underside or side of the tank. They're not too expensive and sold at any pet store or online.
> 
> I have the same problem. During the day my tank is at 24.7 Celsius so like 76f but at night, it drops down to 19 which is a little chilly but I can't sleep in a warm room.


 Is your tank a vert? I am planning on a 40B vert and I was curious if a heat pad on the bottom is going to sufficiently heat the top portion of the tank as well as the bottom.


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## EricS (Aug 22, 2010)

You maybe right for some people about dropping fish for frogs, but I have had the fish bug for 40 years now and still have a list of over 50 species that I would love to add to my collection. I went so far as to get a degree in fishery biology, although it never turned into a career. I tend to add on rather than switch. Now if I can only win powerball and build the house to hold everything I want.


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## guppygal (Aug 23, 2007)

Nate, I'm thinking that I heard 'way back when' that heat rises....still holds true, I think 

I had placed a heating pad behind my pumilio tank and it seemed to work out just fine in the winter, but we had a cold one last year - it dropped all the way down to freezing...hehe...

Eric, I am so jealous! When I was a kid, we were into tropical fish and at one point, we had 21 fish tanks around the house. I've always loved them, but I've discovered that frogs require less care, believe it or not. Once you have them setup and the cultures going, you're good for, like...forever! Do you have any pix of your fish? Carry 'em in yer billfold? Yeah, me too.... Send a link if they're posted - luv to see 'em.

kristi


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## Nate Mcfin (Sep 22, 2010)

guppygal said:


> Nate, I'm thinking that I heard 'way back when' that heat rises....still holds true, I think
> 
> kristi


LOL...point taken. I am so worried about making a rookie mistake, I overlooked the obvious. Thanks Kristi!



EricS...50 species! Holy water change day Batman! It takes me long enough to do changes on my 2 tanks.


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## Regalia (Feb 12, 2010)

Nate Mcfin said:


> Is your tank a vert? I am planning on a 40B vert and I was curious if a heat pad on the bottom is going to sufficiently heat the top portion of the tank as well as the bottom.


My only tank right now is a 12x12x12 exo terra which is a little on the small side. I will eventually be moving them to a 10 gal but not a vert. Uhh in terms of heat pad. I've been periodically measuring the temperature in my tank and it usually goes up and down a bit from 24.7 so I don't use one.

Some lights give off a good amount of heat, and with dart tanks being sealed pretty tightly you may not need one. Set it up and test it out. You could always add a heat mat to the bottom. And heat rises so it would more than likely be warmer around the top portion of the viv, no?


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