# what are some good group thumbnail species?



## redfrogger (Nov 6, 2010)

I have a 29 G vert that I want to use for a group of active thumbnail species.

I have some vents and some orange sirensis already.

I would like a group of some type of imitator, but from my understanding and reading on the forum, they are not good in a group setting due to male/male and female/female aggression.

What are your personal thoughts and general habits on the different types of variabilis ( highland, southern, nominal)?

Thanks!

-Riley


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I use 16.5 x 17 x 18 tanks for imitators (about 22 gallons).

I have 4 groups of different types of Imitators. Only one of them is at 1.1 right now. 

I had another that was doing good at 2.2 (Baja Huallaga) until the dominate female inadvertently escaped. They are still breeding at 1.2 - but we'll see how they do going forward.

I have a group of 3 Tarapotas 1.1.1 - lots of laying/carrying - never any froglets. I've started pulling a few eggs now and raising tads (I try to let Imitators raise their own froglets). One of the frogs is hassled now and again and I'd probably pull it if I was positive I was getting the right one.

I have a new group of 4 Varadero in a larger tank that are breeding. No idea what the ratio is on them.

Generally speaking though - I agree imitators are best kept at 1.1 - that is not written in stone though.

s


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## redfrogger (Nov 6, 2010)

Thanks for your thoughts!


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## KC3 (Sep 12, 2012)

redfrogger said:


> I have a 29 G vert that I want to use for a group of active thumbnail species.
> 
> I have some vents and some orange sirensis already.
> 
> ...


If you can afford them I'd get the southern but that's just my personal opinion because that's what I'd really like in the future. I have some Vanzos which you're able to put in groups as well and they're wonderful. They would definitely be a favorite at the moment. But from everything I've read and been told,the Southerns are larger, more bold, have lower calls so aren't as noisy, and the colors are absolutely gorgeous and seem to be brighter then the highland as well as you can put them in groups. Just some thoughts but I like all three you listed above too they're all beautiful IMO. 
Take Care


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## jruffing46 (Jul 10, 2008)

First off, and correct me if Im wrong Scott, highland and nominal variabilis are the same. With that being said, any type of variabilis will do great in a group. Vents and amazonica are related and will also do great in groups. 

Vanzos are awesome in groups. Some people have success with flavovittata in groups.

I keep all my fantastica in groups of 4-5 and works great as long as the tank is set up properly. This includes benedicta as well.

Hope this helps.


Jared


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## Darts15 (Jun 5, 2011)

Yeah I also think the nominant and northern variabilis are the same morph. I really like the southerns. Ventrimaculatus do well in groups too. I kept four together for a while and they did really well.


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## pdfDMD (May 9, 2009)

Out of the few thumbnail species I've kept, my yuri's and intermedius are very visible in their terrariums and do well in groups. Both have a nice, audible call and they can easily be observed between all their terrarium levels. Another thing to consider is how visible you expect your thumbnails to be; some are very gorgeous but they may be completely shy to the point where you can go weeks without catching a glimpse. Between my two picks, my yuri's are the most bold and aren't frightened of my presence; often times they seem downright curious of my movements or when I'm checking on things in their enclosure.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

imitators do fine in groups if they are the same ratio between males and females, and the tank is set up properly. I keep 2.2 Varaderos, Chazutas, and Baja Huallagas in 18 gallon verts with no issues. I'd stay away from odd groups like 1.2 or 2.1 though.

That being said variabilis are a great group frog. This includes most of what used to be called vents as well, like the Rodyll, and Borja Ridge. In my opinion, the Southern variabilis are your best bet. They are super bold and huge.

amazonica are another great group frog, although a little more shy. And both fantastica and summersi do well too. But those should also be even ratio groups and can be very shy as well.

Honestly, I keep all my Ranitomeya species in 2.2 groups. It's really about what works for you and how much experience you have.


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## mydumname (Dec 24, 2004)

I still haven't bought into the imitators in pairs only idea. I have most of my imitators in groups with no issues. Some swear by pairs but I haven't found it to make a difference for me.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

mydumname said:


> I still haven't bought into the imitators in pairs only idea. I have most of my imitators in groups with no issues. Some swear by pairs but I haven't found it to make a difference for me.


Ya most of the people that have been in the hobby for a long time (a lot longer than me) keep imitators in groups without issues. I think the pairs only thing is just dogma. Or perhaps it's just cause it's easier to keep an eye on 2 frogs. Either way, they do well in groups for me too.


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

Take this for what you will, but I had a 1.1.1 trio of imitators in my 36x24x48 and the third wheel inexplicably starved to death. Tons and tons of food in the tank too. The other 2 are the fattest frogs I've ever had.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

That is stress Jason. Whether there is actual bullying or not - stress will kill frogs.

And I do realize you're implying that - I'm just spelling it out for the folks at home. 

s


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

And stress/intimidation is not always physical...in fact it usually goes unnoticed until one or more succumb to starvation.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

VicSkimmr said:


> Take this for what you will, but I had a 1.1.1 trio of imitators in my 36x24x48 and the third wheel inexplicably starved to death. Tons and tons of food in the tank too. The other 2 are the fattest frogs I've ever had.


Ya that's why I say keep them in even ratio groups.


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