# fedex dropoff



## steppedinds (Feb 4, 2013)

does fedex really not allow animals to be picked up from a pick up station?

had my frogs held at a local pickup station, as I usually do with all my animals with no problems, and the lady told me today that there was a LAW saying that all animal shipments must be made to the address and not to a pickup station...this sounds silly and made up. is this true?


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

The lady is misinformed. I have picked and shipped frogs and geckos from my local Fed Ex hub several times.


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## steppedinds (Feb 4, 2013)

yeh...I thought so. I've always picked things up there, and know others have. She said that the "law" has been in place, but they've never followed it. Also, went on to say they were contacting known people who sent animals and calling people whos's packages they noticed had animals

I've talked to a guy at the same station and he's told me the females there are very skiddish and afraid of the boxes marked reptiles/amphibians because of the "snake man" who comes by once a week. He's apparently even brought snakes around his neck into the fedex office and really freaked the workers out...maybe theyre just trying to mislead people because theyre scared? no clue....


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## Firawen (Jan 29, 2012)

steppedinds said:


> yeh...I thought so. I've always picked things up there, and know others have. She said that the "law" has been in place, but they've never followed it. Also, went on to say they were contacting known people who sent animals and calling people whos's packages they noticed had animals
> 
> I've talked to a guy at the same station and he's told me the females there are very skiddish and afraid of the boxes marked reptiles/amphibians because of the "snake man" who comes by once a week. He's apparently even brought snakes around his neck into the fedex office and really freaked the workers out...maybe theyre just trying to mislead people because theyre scared? no clue....


That's kind of sleazy on their part if it's just because herps make them uncomfortable. They should just tell that guy "Please don't bring any snakes in here with you anymore, it bothers us..."

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk now Free


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

My aurotaenia were held for pickup this year at drop off/pickup store... and then my sisa and benedicta had to be picked up at the main fedex hub in Tulsa which is pretty dang far away. I think all 3 shipments said live harmless amphibians or something like that on them. So I agree this person is probably misinformed or it is a policy specific to that location. In fact I opened the frogs right there in front of the ladies... twice actually since the first shipment of benedicta was DOA thanks to getting held up in memphis and all the aid flights coming into oklahoma during one of our weather catastrophes this year.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

I had a FedEx hub do that to me once. The package was packaged well and labeled harmless live frogs on the box, and when I got to the hub they said they do not hold live animals at that location and sent it back.. So for the rest of the day the frogs rode on the truck around town in the cold until finally being delivered to my house around 3-4 in the afternoon.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I had a FedEx hub do that to me once. The package was packaged well and labeled harmless live frogs on the box, and when I got to the hub they said they do not hold live animals at that location and sent it back.. So for the rest of the day the frogs rode on the truck around town in the cold until finally being delivered to my house around 3-4 in the afternoon.


Chris was that the one way out there with its own airport? (Our main tulsa fedex hub), or was it one of the other fedex stores in Tulsa?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Dendro Dave said:


> Chris was that the one way out there with its own airport? (Our main tulsa fedex hub), or was it one of the other fedex stores in Tulsa?


It wasn't the main hub at the airport. It was a smaller store by my house near like 91st and 145th. It's a FedEx store connected with a kinkos store, so I was assuming that was the reason they refused to keep the animal? I've had other packages held there, but live reptiles was not labeled on the box..


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## steppedinds (Feb 4, 2013)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I had a FedEx hub do that to me once. The package was packaged well and labeled harmless live frogs on the box, and when I got to the hub they said they do not hold live animals at that location and sent it back.. So for the rest of the day the frogs rode on the truck around town in the cold until finally being delivered to my house around 3-4 in the afternoon.


that's crazy. that would suck if that happened on a real hot/cold day. they usually call me around 10 am if I haven't showed up yet at least

also I found this
"Live Animals
FedEx does not accept live animal shipments as part of its regularly scheduled service. Live animals will be accepted when the shipment is coordinated and approved by the FedEx Live Animal Desk. Acceptable shipments include, but are not limited to, zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) and horses (from gateway to gateway locations only). Household pets, such as domestic cats and dogs, and live fish are not accepted. For more information, contact the FedEx Live Animal Desk at 1.800.405.9052."

from Shipping Terms - FedEx Package Tracking - Government Contract Services


so yeh...looks like she was right..something they have had and they are starting to enforce. at least at that location


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

I believe the rule of thumb is FedEx will hold your frogs at the "hub". The hub is the last destination before a package goes to the airport, and it's first stop once it comes off the airport. Individual FedEx stores, (FedEx Kinko's etc.) make up their own individual polices if they accept animals or not.


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## steppedinds (Feb 4, 2013)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I believe the rule of thumb is FedEx will hold your frogs at the "hub". The hub is the last destination before a package goes to the airport, and it's first stop once it comes off the airport. Individual FedEx stores, (FedEx Kinko's etc.) make up their own individual polices if they accept animals or not.


the office I went to this morning was the hub...lol if you could throw a rock high enough you could hit the planes as they takes off


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

We ship only with Fedex and have a lot of time invested with our agreements with them. We (Dendrobati) are approved for shipping live animals. I learned a lot through the application process. 

Fedex has some strict rules for shipping live animals. Per their rules, all live animal shippers have to have prior approval prior to shipping (I believe this is also true with UPS and USPS). To obtain approval, there is an application process and later a package testing process. The package test evaluates everything from the box tape to the containers our frogs would be housed in.

The law in reference is the Lacey Act. I don't know if the women was technically correct that shipping live animals to them was against the law, but it is for sure against the rules and violates the live animal shipping agreement that an approved shipper would have to sign. Fedex owned locations can only accept live animals IF the location is a Fedex hub. Kinkos don't count. 

The same thing is true on the shipping side. Our process for shipping out frogs is to wait in the parking lot of the Kinkos office with the latest express pickup time. We have to hand the package directly to the drive who takes them directly to the hub, about 50 minutes away from us. The Kinkos staff know us very well but they will not accept our package if it is a live animal. 

This is something that buyers should be aware of. Not all breeders or shippers are approved. In fact, I suspect that few are. 

You as an individual do not need to be approved, you can use a shipping facility like Ship Your Reptiles, who is approved. This is a technical loop hole, but it works. 


This is from the Fedex site:
Shipping Terms - http://www.fedex.com/us/government/international/terms.html#liveanimals

FedEx does not accept live animal shipments as part of its regularly scheduled service. Live animals will be accepted when the shipment is coordinated and approved by the FedEx Live Animal Desk. Acceptable shipments include, but are not limited to, zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) and horses (from gateway to gateway locations only). Household pets, such as domestic cats and dogs, and live fish are not accepted. For more information, contact the FedEx Live Animal Desk at 1.800.405.9052.

This is a little overview of the Lacey Act: http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ovuslaceyact.htm


Hope that helps!


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

Label the box "Fragile: Live Plants" if you want to avoid any drama with FedEx stores. I have had multiple problems with FedEx stores due to their live animal policy. I even went to ship from their hub at the airport and was told I needed an account which required an employee from FedEx to come out to my house or business and inspect my animals and the shipping/packing materials and process. PITA every time I have shipped with FedEx. I guess the secret is getting an account.

Posted a bit too late... See ^^^^^


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for that info. I guess that's why ShipYourReptiles recommends that you tape that little "we are an authorized shipper" note to the box.


I dropped some frogs off at the FedEx hub at the airport last night. I got a little nervous when the lady saw the 'live amphibians' note and asked me if I was shipping 'some of those deadly poisonous frogs.' Then we spent the next 30 min chatting about them. She talked about a nice young fellow who used to let her see his frogs when he was shipping or receiving but he moved away and now she doesn't get to see the frogs. Turns out it was Chris Teem. No, I didn't open my carefully packed boxes for her


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

MELLOWROO421 said:


> Label the box "Fragile: Live Plants" if you want to avoid any drama with FedEx stores. I have had multiple problems with FedEx stores due to their live animal policy. I even went to ship from their hub at the airport and was told I needed an account which required an employee from FedEx to come out to my house or business and inspect my animals and the shipping/packing materials and process. PITA every time I have shipped with FedEx. I guess the secret is getting an account.
> 
> Posted a bit too late... See ^^^^^


No, *ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO THIS*. this is horrible advice. It is a violation of the Lacey act and could land the person in serious trouble.

Please, if you can't ship animals properly and legally, don't ship them at all.


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## steppedinds (Feb 4, 2013)

^^^^LOL...keyword in lacey act is "act"...meaning federal consequences


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## Dendrobati (Jul 27, 2012)

MELLOWROO421 said:


> Label the box "Fragile: Live Plants" if you want to avoid any drama with FedEx stores. I have had multiple problems with FedEx stores due to their live animal policy. I even went to ship from their hub at the airport and was told I needed an account which required an employee from FedEx to come out to my house or business and inspect my animals and the shipping/packing materials and process. PITA every time I have shipped with FedEx. I guess the secret is getting an account.
> 
> Posted a bit too late... See ^^^^^



Aaahhh.....this is a great way to get into serious trouble! 

Imaging a Fedex employee that knows NOTHING about frogs and has to open the box for some reason. They likely don't know they are NOT toxic. 

No label is better than a fraudulent label - ------ not that I'm recommending this!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Dendrobati said:


> Aaahhh.....this is a great way to get into serious trouble!
> 
> *Imaging a Fedex employee that knows NOTHING about frogs and has to open the box for some reason. They likely don't know they are NOT toxic. *
> No label is better than a fraudulent label - ------ not that I'm recommending this!


That's why I always put a note on the top of the inside box that says, in large letters, 'Harmless Amphibians Enclosed' or something like that. Also a copy of the packing slip and the shipping label in case something happens to the ones on the outside of the box. 

You don't want someone opening the box, freaking out and tossing the whole thing across the room in fright, with frogs flying everywhere (crazy as it sounds to us, I've learned that there are people who are terrified of frogs. weird).


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## MELLOWROO421 (Feb 21, 2007)

I didn't mean for it to be taken as advice, I'm simply trying to say that FedEx has been difficult at best in my dealings with them. That's why I stated that it's best to have an account with them if you plan on using them as your preferred shipping method.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

frogface said:


> That's why I always put a note on the top of the inside box that says, in large letters, 'Harmless Amphibians Enclosed' or something like that. Also a copy of the packing slip and the shipping label in case something happens to the ones on the outside of the box.
> 
> You don't want someone opening the box, freaking out and tossing the whole thing across the room in fright, with frogs flying everywhere (crazy as it sounds to us, I've learned that there are people who are terrified of frogs. weird).


This is good advice, *BUT* you must also label the outside of the box to be in compliance with the Lacey act.

It is really simple, here is what I do.

Write:

"Live Harmless Amphibians"
" Ranitomeya variabilis - qty 5"

This satisfies the Lacey act requirements with accurate information that should raise little concern from the shipping service.

I've done this with every frog shipment and have never had an issue.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

MELLOWROO421 said:


> I didn't mean for it to be taken as advice, I'm simply trying to say that FedEx has been difficult at best in my dealings with them. That's why I stated that it's best to have an account with them if you plan on using them as your preferred shipping method.


What was your intent then? You suggested mislabeling the box to avoid drama.

Sorry, I'm not trying to go all attack dog on you, and if you didn't intend this as advice, that is fine, but on the chance that someone sees it as advice, it important for people to know that they shouldn't do what your first post suggests.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> This is good advice, *BUT* you must also label the outside of the box to be in compliance with the Lacey act.
> 
> It is really simple, here is what I do.
> 
> ...


Yes, sorry. All of that stuff that I do on the inside, I also do on the outside


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

heatfreakk3 said:


> It wasn't the main hub at the airport. It was a smaller store by my house near like 91st and 145th. It's a FedEx store connected with a kinkos store, so I was assuming that was the reason they refused to keep the animal? I've had other packages held there, but live reptiles was not labeled on the box..



Ok the one that held my frogs was the 41st street store over there by the petco/petsmart Chris so they seem willing to do it. Might try having your next vendor ship frogs there if they wanna do hold for pickup. 

FedEx Office on 4014 S Yale Ave



Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I believe the rule of thumb is FedEx will hold your frogs at the "hub". The hub is the last destination before a package goes to the airport, and it's first stop once it comes off the airport. Individual FedEx stores, (FedEx Kinko's etc.) make up their own individual polices if they accept animals or not.


I think you're right Rusty, or else the people at the store I went to didn't know they weren't supposed to hold it. Maybe it is because mine was a pure fedex store (I think), and not a fedex kinkos? It says this "FedEx Kinko's is now FedEx Office"... So I don't know.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Dendro Dave said:


> Ok the one that held my frogs was the 41st street store over there by the petco/petsmart Chris so they seem willing to do it. Might try having your next vendor ship frogs there if they wanna do hold for pickup.
> 
> FedEx Office on 4014 S Yale Ave
> 
> ...


I've had my frogs shipped to other stores Dave with no problems. I usually like them going to the store on 71st.. I never have problems there. But lots of the time I just have them shipped to my house. I try not to use FedEx a whole lot anymore anyway because of the high price.. I usually ship and try to have my frogs shipped through USPS.


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Dendro Dave said:


> Chris was that the one way out there with its own airport? (Our main tulsa fedex hub), or was it one of the other fedex stores in Tulsa?


I have never had problems with the hub in Tulsa by the airport. They have always been friendly. One lady was nervous because the box was labeled. She asked me what they were. When I told her she said, "Oh ok, I like frogs. I can't handle snakes though." 

The satellite stores are a different story. I try to avoid them at all costs.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

heatfreakk3 said:


> I've had my frogs shipped to other stores Dave with no problems. I usually like them going to the store on 71st.. I never have problems there. But lots of the time I just have them shipped to my house. I try not to use FedEx a whole lot anymore anyway because of the high price.. I usually ship and try to have my frogs shipped through USPS.


Ya I usually prefer home delivery since that hub is way way the heck out there, but all 3 deals for frogs this year wanted them hold for pick up. I'm not sure I'm ready to trust USPS yet.



LizardLicker said:


> I have never had problems with the hub in Tulsa by the airport. They have always been friendly. One lady was nervous because the box was labeled. She asked me what they were. When I told her she said, "Oh ok, I like frogs. I can't handle snakes though."
> 
> The satellite stores are a different story. I try to avoid them at all costs.


Ya the hub was cool other then the long long drive out there. I think they had a snake incident and that is why they are all leary now 

The only other store I've delt with in recent years is the 41st store, and no problems there. Walked in picked up my aurotaenia and walked out


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ecichlid said:


> The lady is misinformed. I have picked and shipped frogs and geckos from my local Fed Ex hub several times.


that's not necessarily true. Being that regulations at fedex seem to like a game of telephone, sometimes. But with that said, I never had any issues


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

MELLOWROO421 said:


> Label the box "Fragile: Live Plants" if you want to avoid any drama with FedEx stores. I have had multiple problems with FedEx stores due to their live animal policy. I even went to ship from their hub at the airport and was told I needed an account which required an employee from FedEx to come out to my house or business and inspect my animals and the shipping/packing materials and process. PITA every time I have shipped with FedEx. I guess the secret is getting an account.
> 
> Posted a bit too late... See ^^^^^


while I doubt the chances are high for getting caught, I think that would be in violation of federal laws, like the aforementioned Lacey act


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> No, *ABSOLUTELY DO NOT DO THIS*. this is horrible advice. It is a violation of the Lacey act and could land the person in serious trouble.
> 
> Please, if you can't ship animals properly and legally, don't ship them at all.


While I understand it's a violation of federal law, and is certainly nothing I have an interest in doing, what are the chances of getting caught and then prosecuted? Such seems pretty slim.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> While I understand it's a violation of federal law, and is certainly nothing I have an interest in doing, what are the chances of getting caught and then prosecuted? Such seems pretty slim.


Not sure what you're getting at here? 

Are the chances of getting caught slim? Yes. So what? It takes little extra effort to obey the law.

Are the consensequences worth the risk. So you probably won't get caught, but if you do and are prosecuted, you could be charged with a federal crime. Furthermore. You place the hobby in a bad light and expose it to further scrutiny. We're already under fire from various agencies, the last thing we need is more attention brought to us because some people are too lazy, stubborn or ignorant, to obey some very simple easy to comply with basic rules for shipping.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Not sure what you're getting at here?
> 
> Are the chances of getting caught slim? Yes. So what? It takes little extra effort to obey the law.
> 
> Are the consensequences worth the risk. So you probably won't get caught, but if you do and are prosecuted, you could be charged with a federal crime. Furthermore. You place the hobby in a bad light and expose it to further scrutiny. We're already under fire from various agencies, the last thing we need is more attention brought to us because some people are too lazy, stubborn or ignorant, to obey some very simple easy to comply with basic rules for shipping.


Not to mention the $100,000 fine that could be imposed. Got that kinda pocket change laying around?


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Not sure what you're getting at here?


that you're unlikely to get caught and even more unlikely to be prosecuted 



> Are the chances of getting caught slim? Yes. So what? It takes little extra effort to obey the law.


that your previous reaction was overstating the chances of being caught and prosecuted



> Are the consensequences worth the risk. So you probably won't get caught, but if you do and are prosecuted, you could be charged with a federal crime. Furthermore. You place the hobby in a bad light and expose it to further scrutiny. We're already under fire from various agencies, the last thing we need is more attention brought to us because some people are too lazy, stubborn or ignorant, to obey some very simple easy to comply with basic rules for shipping.


no one endorsed breaking the law. I just thought you were overselling the potential risks. So relax


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Not to mention the $100,000 fine that could be imposed. Got that kinda pocket change laying around?


though exceedingly unlikely that a violator would be caught, I agree the potential risks are not worth the exceedingly small gain. Which is why I pointed out such was 1) something I wasn't interested in doing and 2) illegal under federal law. 

So you don't need to push the point by acting like an international swat team swoops in every time a mislabeled frog is found in the mail

The truth serves as enough of a deterrent that no one needs to fear monger


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

Following proper shipping policies should be followed and IF one person did get caught shipping frogs under false pretense (like "tropical plants"), I would think it would give the overall hobby a big bad X if that did happen.

I've never had an issue with shipping via fedex/SYR. I put "Harmless Live Amphibians" on the box along with the SYR note. Inside the box I have all my information, what exactly is in the container, and copy of the invoice. This is all in the box, but on top of the styro so information can be accessed without opening the styro.

I personally would not risk it because you can get away with it. I could rob a random person on the street and more than likely get away with it, but is it the right thing to do? Piss poor example, but you get the point right?!


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Brian317 said:


> I personally would not risk it because you can get away with it. I could rob a random person on the street and more than likely get away with it, but is it the right thing to do? Piss poor example, but you get the point right?!


it's exactly the one I was getting at


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> that you're unlikely to get caught and even more unlikely to be prosecuted


Why even mention this. Don't you see that you're going to give some people the idea that aw, it's no big deal, I probably won't get caught and if I do, I probably won't get prosecuted? This kind of statement is just irresponsible. We have a responsibility to advocate for responsible shipping practices that following the law no matter how unlikely a negative outcome might be.



> that your previous reaction was overstating the chances of being caught and prosecuted


Actually, my previous mention made no statement whatsoever about the chances of being caught or prosecuted. Never mentioned either of those things.



> no one endorsed breaking the law. I just thought you were overselling the potential risks.


No did I say that they did. Stop creating straw men. Fear mongering, swat teams, you're being ridiculous. 

I did point out however, that their suggestion of how to ship, was a violation of the law .



> So relax


Way to try to patronize me. /facepalm


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Why even mention this.


because it's the truth and likely reflects the experience of most people in the herp and fish hobby. So when you make it sound like a crime you're likely to get nabbed for, you out yourself as an unreliable source that people won't listen to.

It's like how marijuana became a gateway drug to people overasserting the potential dangers




> Don't you see that you're going to give some people the idea that aw, it's no big deal, I probably won't get caught and if I do, I probably won't get prosecuted?


No, I really don't, and I am unsure why I should assume everyone else is too stupid to reach the same logical conclusion I did



> This kind of statement is just irresponsible.


I think misrepresenting data, due to perceived fears, is irresponsible




> We have a responsibility to advocate for responsible shipping practices that following the law no matter how unlikely a negative outcome might be.


Right, and I was able to do so without being misleading




> Way to try to patronize me. /facepalm


My intent was to tell you to relax, not patronize you. Because you seem to have a habit of overreacting to things.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Splash&Dash said:


> though exceedingly unlikely that a violator would be caught, I agree the potential risks are not worth the exceedingly small gain. Which is why I pointed out such was 1) something I wasn't interested in doing and 2) illegal under federal law.
> 
> So you don't need to push the point by acting like an international swat team swoops in every time a mislabeled frog is found in the mail
> 
> The truth serves as enough of a deterrent that no one needs to fear monger


How do you know? Your vast years of experience in the frog hobby? 
Anyone being caught once is one more time than absolutely necessary. 
The penalty is stiff, for a reason. To keep people from doing it. Who knows how many people actually get caught, it's not like it's worthy of being broadcast on the 6 o'clock news. 
What do you think of F&W agents attending reptile swaps?
What do you think of the recent news story about FL F&W busting over 30 people statewide for selling animals (herps) via Craigslist without the appropriate permits?


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> How do you know? Your vast years of experience in the frog hobby?


Because anyone in the hobby has likely violated the lacey act numerous times already out of simple ignorance, and proper labeling is exceedingly rare. Even with commercial sellers




> Anyone being caught once is one more time than absolutely necessary.


I agree




> The penalty is stiff, for a reason. To keep people from doing it. Who knows how many people actually get caught, it's not like it's worthy of being broadcast on the 6 o'clock news.


No, but I have never heard of anyone being busted and have a number of relations in the herp hobby. 




> What do you think of F&W agents attending reptile swaps?


You mean the thing that is readily talked about within the hobby?




> What do you think of the recent news story about FL F&W busting over 30 people statewide for selling animals (herps) via Craigslist without the appropriate permits?


see above


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

So the moral of the story seems to be, if you don't use "Ship Your Reptiles" or have had your shipping methods inspected by Fedex, you are at least in violation of FedEx policy and very likely in violation of the Lacy Act when you ship/receive your frogs.
Seems like using SYR is a pretty good idea.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

SYR also seems to offer pretty decent price matching, as well. They certainly don't seem unreasonably inflated.

Not to mention Robin (or is it "robyn") is an awesome guy


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Splash&Dash said:


> Because anyone in the hobby has likely violated the lacey act numerous times already out of simple ignorance, and proper labeling is exceedingly rare. Even with commercial sellers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've never, ever violated the Lacey Act, and I know many other diligent froggers that never have either. Not "anyone" has likely violated the act, only lazy shippers have violated the Lacey Act, the info is out there and it's simple to label your package correctly, only laziness, or stupidity would prevent you from doing so. 
Let me get this straight, in the recent news story about the FL herp keepers who got busted you think that it's readily talked about in the hobby, yet you've never heard of anyone being busted. So therefore if you've never heard of it, it must not ever happen? 
Let me tell you how lazy those people are. It's super duper easy to get a FL Class III permit. You fill out 3 or 4 pages of questions, send in a check. DONE! No excuse from anyone not to do it, yet these people that didn't do it got busted and rightly so. Just as it's easy to correctly ship reptiles according to the Lacey Act and the lazy and stupid way out would be to label the box as plants.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Splash&Dash said:


> SYR also seems to offer pretty decent price matching, as well. They certainly don't seem unreasonably inflated.
> 
> Not to mention Robin (or is it "robyn") is an awesome guy


I agree, he is an awesome guy. Back when we were rescuing Bill Schwinn's frogs (while Bill was in the hospital) SYR offered to ship them out to the frog sitters, free of charge. Ultimately, they weren't able to do it because of shipping restrictions but we really did appreciate the offer. We also appreciated that they stick to the laws and to their own regulations. It's all for the protection of the folks shipping animals around as well as for the animals.

eta: Patrick Nabors ended up fronting the shipping for us. He, too, is an awesome guy.

eta some more: IIRC, the issue with shipping was that one of us needed to have the frogs shipped in a manner that might have ended up in a situation much like what started this thread. It wasn't a Lacey Act issue (just want to make that clear, we're all lawful citizens  ).


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I've never, ever violated the Lacey Act, and I know many other diligent froggers that never have either. Not "anyone" has likely violated the act, only lazy shippers have violated the Lacey Act, the info is out there and it's simple to label your package correctly, only laziness, or stupidity would prevent you from doing so.


from my personal experience, most hobbyists are not even aware of it's existence, or that it has implications for things that are viewed as benign as mailing out a personal trade




> Let me get this straight, in the recent news story about the FL herp keepers who got busted you think that it's readily talked about in the hobby, yet you've never heard of anyone being busted. So therefore if you've never heard of it, it must not ever happen?


You said they were in violation of permits. Something people readily talk about, and there has even been recent discussions here. People getting busted for improperly labeled packages is what I was speaking of, and something I never heard of (thus the assumption it is rare)




> Let me tell you how lazy those people are. It's super duper easy to get a FL Class III permit. You fill out 3 or 4 pages of questions, send in a check. DONE! No excuse from anyone not to do it, yet these people that didn't do it got busted and rightly so. Just as it's easy to correctly ship reptiles according to the Lacey Act and the lazy and stupid way out would be to label the box as plants.


In the context we are speaking of, the requirement is writing on a box (which is much simpler). But beyond that, I don't understand what your argument actually is


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

frogface said:


> I agree, he is an awesome guy. Back when we were rescuing Bill Schwinn's frogs (while Bill was in the hospital) SYR offered to ship them out to the frog sitters, free of charge. Ultimately, they weren't able to do it because of shipping restrictions but we really did appreciate the offer. We also appreciated that they stick to the laws and to their own regulations. It's all for the protection of the folks shipping animals around as well as for the animals.
> 
> eta: Patrick Nabors ended up fronting the shipping for us. He, too, is an awesome guy.
> 
> eta some more: IIRC, the issue with shipping was that one of us needed to have the frogs shipped and held at a FedEx location that might have ended up in a situation much like what started this thread. It wasn't a Lacey Act issue (just want to make that clear, we're all lawful citizens  ).


Yeah, it was a real shame when their breeding facility burnt down. The guy always seemed nothing but an honest and helpful business owner, which is exceedingly rare in the herp hobby.


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

Okay - A lot of misleading information here....

Animals can/will be held at a Fedex "Hub" or Service station. That is the ONLY place they will be held unless prior arrangements are made. 

Fedex Office/Fedex Kinkos/Your local pack and ship store has NO obligation to hold your packages. These are locally owned and operated establishments. They are not Fedex, and a lot of people seem to confuse this. Usually, you have to buy a mailbox there to have packages held, if they will hold live animal shipments to begin with.

In short - When you search for your local Fedex location, narrow your search down to Fedex Service Centers ONLY, and that will give you your local hubs address....Make sure the person shipping has the hold at hub option checked when they make a label, or else it gets really confusing once that box gets to the hub address...


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> because it's the truth and likely reflects the experience of most people in the herp and fish hobby. So when you make it sound like a crime you're likely to get nabbed for, you out yourself as an unreliable source that people won't listen to.


Once again, I never made any statement as to the likelihood of getting caught or prosecuted. You're still tilting at windmills. I don't quite understand why you're clinging to this fallacious argument. It seems you have yourself convinced I stated something I didn't.

And forgive me if I am unconcerned about wether or not you find me to be an unreliable source of information. I know that you'll rather me be on the defensive, but in reality, it is your questionable statements which have us questioning your reliability as a source of information. 



> I think misrepresenting data, due to perceived fears, is irresponsible


What data? No data has even been presented to be misrepresented......



> Right, and I was able to do so without being misleading


What exactly did I say, please quote, that was misleading?


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> Because anyone in the hobby has likely violated the lacey act numerous times already out of simple ignorance, and proper labeling is exceedingly rare.


I'm with Rusty on this. Never have. Proper labeling is not exceedingly rare, it is I fact, quite common. I cannot quite fathom these statements, when they are in fact, the exact opposite of what has been my experience and those of the majority of herp hobbyists I know..


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I'm with Rusty on this. Never have. Proper labeling is not exceedingly tare, it is I fact, quite common. I cannot quite fathom these statements, when they are in fact, the exact opposite of what has been my experience and those of the majority of herp hobbyists I know..


I agree. Shipping, in particular, is very stressful for noobs. That is exactly the kind of thing they will research. If they don't research feeding or supplements or enclosures, they will research shipping. 

I thought I was going to have a heart attack while waiting for confirmation of receipt of my first shipped frogs.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I'm with Rusty on this. Never have. Proper labeling is not exceedingly rare, it is I fact, quite common. I cannot quite fathom these statements, when they are in fact, the exact opposite of what has been my experience and those of the majority of herp hobbyists I know..




from 2009:



> So what exactly is this infamous Lacey Act, and how does it specifically affect reptile shipments?
> 
> I read it for the umpteenth time today, and aside from specifics on protected or endangered wildlife, I just don't see anything that actually addresses labeling, what must be labeled, and how to label, aside from "follow industry standards".
> 
> ...


The Lacey Act - FaunaClassifieds


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/34571-lacey-act.html

a thread here when there was a brief uptick in activity

plenty of other revelation discussions can be found googling "lacy act, forum, reptiles"


PS it should be mentioned that the shipping resources available here are very detailed and people tend to be very aware of the lacy act *here*. Because of that (but that is still not universally true as this thread shows). So if you joined this forum, and started shipping animals after words, then it makes sense. But the majority of herp and fish keepers, not so much

Honestly, it's amazing how you two can be trusted to overreact to everything


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Once again, I never made any statement as to the likelihood of getting caught or prosecuted. You're still tilting at windmills. I don't quite understand why you're clinging to this fallacious argument. It seems you have yourself convinced I stated something I didn't.


you made it sound like it was something vigorously enforced (when the shear number of packages sent everyday makes that impossible). The problem with this is that many people don't adhere to it because they don't know about it or what it pertains to. hence, such claims come out hollow



> And forgive me if I am unconcerned about wether or not you find me to be an unreliable source of information. I know that you'll rather me be on the defensive, but in reality, it is your questionable statements which have us questioning your reliability as a source of information.


not me, other people. because how you characterized it goes against their personal experiance, as mentioned above






> What data? No data has even been presented to be misrepresented......


You took issue with me pointing out a person was unlikely to get caught because it would encourage them to violate the act. My response was to point out the penalties are steep enough, and compliance simple enough, that the truth should be sufficient ...


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Splash&Dash said:


> from 2009:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is your point with all of this nonsense? You cited a post from 2008? Certainly in the time span between 2008 and 2013 more information has come out to make this issue clearer for everyone. It's like finding a post from 1420 about string theory and comparing it to what we know now. Bottom line, there is no excuse to not label animals correctly and in compliance with the Lacey Act. 
I do want to thank you for proving our points for us. You doubted anyone ever got busted because you never heard of it, yet the thread from DB you just linked contains anecdotes of two busts in the first two posts. See it does happen, without you knowing about it. There is never any excuse to willfully violate the Lacey Act by labeling any animal as a plant in order to skirt around FedEx regulations.
Thank goodness this forum is equipped with a block feature.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> What is your point with all of this nonsense?
> 
> You cited a post from 2008? Certainly in the time span between 2008 and 2013 more information has come out to make this issue clearer for everyone.


there were people still unaware, even on this thread, and this is a forum with a very high awareness of the subject matter. And it underlines my earlier point about "anyone in the hobby has likely violated the lacey act numerous times already out of simple ignorance".



> It's like finding a post from 1420 about string theory and comparing it to what we know now. Bottom line, there is no excuse to not label animals correctly and in compliance with the Lacey Act.


except many people aren't aware of it and it's implications ...




> You doubted anyone ever got busted because you never heard of it, yet the thread from DB you just linked contains anecdotes of two busts in the first two posts.


No, I said getting caught violating the act was unlikely and that prosecution was even more so (that is not never ...). And yes, this is the first time I have seen such discussed. But it is one thread with a few anecdotes. Which doesn't invalidate my premise, especially when we compare it to the number of times people have discussed F&W agents cruising shows or people getting busted for non-permitted collecting.



> See it does happen, without you knowing about it.


Never - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

unlikely - definition of unlikely by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.



> There is never any excuse to willfully violate the Lacey Act by labeling any animal as a plant in order to skirt around FedEx regulations.


I *never* suggested there was. Hence the remark about you over reacting


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> you made it sound like it was something vigorously enforced (when the shear number of packages sent everyday makes that impossible). The problem with this is that many people don't adhere to it because they don't know about it or what it pertains to. hence, such claims come out hollow


Where exactly did I do this? I never mentioned anything about enforcement. Seriously man, where did you come up with that nonsense, You're hyperventilating over nothing and making this crap up as you go along? Do yourself a favor and go back and read the actual posts that I made. My statements are very simple. I realize that you've now revealed some kind of personal vendetta against myself and rusty, but this is ridiculous. Your continued attempts to demonize and vilify me and Rusty are a farce. Give it up.

I want to point out here, what I've just quoted, that's all you. No quotes from me, just you saying " I made it sound like", when anyone with any reading comprehension can go back to the 2nd page of this thread and read what I actually wrote. You're flailing and grasping at straws here and it's really quite sad sir.




> not me, other people. because how you characterized it goes against their personal experiance, as mentioned above


Nope, just you. You don't get to speak for other people. I'll thank you to let others speak for themselves. 



> You took issue with me pointing out a person was unlikely to get caught because it would encourage them to violate the act. My response was to point out the penalties are steep enough, and compliance simple enough, that the truth should be sufficient ...


This is data??????????? Do you know what data is? Perhaps you should google it?

Honestly, it's late, I think you should go to sleep and think on this one for a bit. I think perhaps you don't like me and rusty for some reason, and so you want so very badly for there to be an argument where there just isn't one. Were in basic agreement over the premise that people should comply with the Lacey act.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> Honestly, it's amazing how you two can be trusted to overreact to everything


I think this underscores what the real issue is for you.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I think this underscores what the real issue is for you.


or you two obviously tend to overreact on here, and kept true to form in response to a simple statement I made ...

None of which necessitates I have a grudge, just simple pattern recognition


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Where exactly did I do this? I never mentioned anything about enforcement. Seriously man, where did you come up with that nonsense, You're hyperventilating over nothing and making this crap up as you go along? Do yourself a favor and go back and read the actual posts that I made. My statements are very simple. I realize that you've now revealed some kind of personal vendetta against myself and rusty, but this is ridiculous. Your continued attempts to demonize and vilify me and Rusty are a farce. Give it up.


Then why did you raise such a stink over me making a small point of the unlikelihood of getting caught and prosecuted?

right, because you were fear mongering


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> or you two obviously tend to overreact on here, and kept true to form in response to a simple statement I made ...
> 
> None of which necessitates I have a grudge, just simple pattern recognition


You sought me out at least and quoted me prior to making your irresponsible statements. It is unfortunate for you that you feel my response was an over reaction, but when someone makes such an irresponsible statement, in response to a direct quote of me, you had better believe I will respond. 

I am happy though that you've recognized my zeal and passion for the hobby. Yes I encourage people to do the right thing. No I don't accept ignorance and misinformation as the accepted norm. What was the term someone else, a friend of mine used recently? rabid? I like it! It's a pattern I'm proud of and intend to keep, so get used to it.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> Then why did you raise such a stink over me making a small point of the unlikelihood of getting caught and prosecuted?
> 
> right, because you were fear mongering


Wrong, no fear mongering. Informing people of proper compliance and potential consequences is not fear mongering. It's called responsibly informing the misinformed. You on the other hand seem fine with a laisse faire attitude of "hey, you probably won't get caught, and if you do, they probably won't get prosecuted, and anybody is probably ignorant and doesn't know any better anyway."

/facepalm


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> there were people still unaware, even on this thread, and this is a forum with a very high awareness of the subject matter. And it underlines my earlier point about "anyone in the hobby has likely violated the lacey act numerous times already out of simple ignorance".


All the more reason why then, when someone posts misinformation about how to ship animals, to correct that misinformation, as I did.

But of course since it was me, it's over reacting. I'm quite certain had anyone else pointed out that Mellow's post was bad advice that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> You sought me out at least and quoted me prior to making your irresponsible statements. It is unfortunate for you that you feel my response was an over reaction, but when someone makes such an irresponsible statement, in response to a direct quote of me, you had better believe I will respond.


Again, a factual statement is not irresponsible. I am sorry you feel that way, but the truth here is enough of a deterrent. You don't need to fear monger



> Yes I encourage people to do the right thing.


Uh, so did I. That's what makes your reaction so funny



> No I don't accept ignorance and misinformation as the accepted norm.


pointing out something exists does not indicate I accept it or think it is ideal ...




> What was the term someone else, a friend of mine used recently? rabid? I like it! It's a pattern I'm proud of and intend to keep, so get used to it.


being a rabid reactionary anytime there is a perceived disagreement with you isn't something you should be proud of, especially when you're taking issue with statements of fact


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> All the more reason why then, when someone posts misinformation about how to ship animals, to correct that misinformation, as I did.


Who said not to correct misinformation or that you shouldn't post the correct info?



> But of course since it was me, it's over reacting.


No, the way you did it, and your ensuing actions here, are what makes it overreacting



> I'm quite certain had anyone else pointed out that Mellow's post was bad advice that we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.


probably because they would have been reasonable in their response.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> Wrong, no fear mongering. Informing people of proper compliance and potential consequences is not fear mongering. It's called responsibly informing the misinformed.


The guy likely sent out numerous packages in the past. So he already knows there isn't a huge chance of getting caught. I'm not sure why you feel I need to lie about that to inform someone it's a pointless risk and carries serious consequences, with no benefit



> You on the other hand seem fine with a laisse faire attitude of "hey, you probably won't get caught, and if you do, they probably won't get prosecuted, and anybody is probably ignorant and doesn't know any better anyway."


1)again, I'm really unsure what your issue is with factual statements

2) I cited the fact that people tend to be ignorant of the topic, because you acted like him not knowing was some unforgivable crime, not because I think people shouldn't be informed

you can inform the guy without getting confrontational


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> Again, a factual statement is not irresponsible. I am sorry you feel that way, but the truth here is enough of a deterrent. You don't need to fear monger


You sound like a broken record with the fear mongering thing, give it a rest. Simply stating it over and over again doesn't make the case.

A statement can in fact be factual, and irresponsible, which is the case with your statement. Sorry that you're blinded by your need to disagree with me that can't see this. It is quite laughable. 



> being a rabid reactionary anytime there is a perceived disagreement with you isn't something you should be proud of, especially when you're taking issue with statements of fact


You're really flailing here, twisting my words, I'll just have to trust people to see right through you.

I can in take great issue with statements of fact. It about how they're used and the context in which they are used. That's exactly what is happening here.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> Who said not to correct misinformation or that you shouldn't post the correct info?
> 
> No, the way you did it, and your ensuing actions here, are what makes it overreacting
> 
> probably because they would have been reasonable in their response.


This is just hilarious. I was actually very honest, polite, and to the point with mellow until you came along and trolled the thread with your nonsense.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Splash&Dash said:


> The guy likely sent out numerous packages in the past. So he already knows there isn't a huge chance of getting caught. I'm not sure why you feel I need to lie about that to inform someone it's a pointless risk and carries serious consequences, with no benefit


I didn't lie about anything.




> 1)again, I'm really unsure what your issue is with factual statements


You seem unsure about a lot of things. It become apparent to me that you're just here to be argumentative and to pick a fight with rusty and I.




> 2) I cited the fact that people tend to be ignorant of the topic, because you acted like him not knowing was some unforgivable crime, not because I think people shouldn't be informed


I never acted any such way. Nice try.



> you can inform the guy without getting confrontational


Which is exactly what I did.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> This is just hilarious. I was actually very honest, polite, and to the point with mellow until you came along and trolled the thread with your nonsense.


in response to my simple question about the unlikelihood of getting caught and being prosecuted, and after I made clear I had no interest in violating the act, you wrote "We're already under fire from various agencies, the last thing we need is more attention brought to us because some people are too lazy, stubborn or ignorant, to obey some very simple easy to comply with basic rules for shipping."

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/133946-fedex-dropoff-3.html#post1547706


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

ZookeeperDoug said:


> I didn't lie about anything.


what is the opposite of a factual statement?






> You seem unsure about a lot of things. It become apparent to me that you're just here to be argumentative and to pick a fight with rusty and I.


I'm not the one who started getting confrontational. That was you and rusty


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm going to drop this. All I was trying to say was that I thought you were overstating things, but that I agreed the risk wasn't worth the possible minuscule benefits, if there were even any. 

I had no intention of it turning into a long and pointless argument and I apologize


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

Back to the subject.

Fedex could improve things thru their site. I have shipped to a service center listed on their site as approved to hold packages for pickup. The center refused to accept the package. Luckily the customer and I were tracking the package and saw it was rejected. Customer service could not get the driver to redirect it to the home address, and it eventually made it's way back to the hub, where the customer was able to pick it up at 6:00PM
Often times service centers don't post their actual phone numbers, so all you can do is speak to someone most likely in India, that is no help what so ever.

The Fedex website should prevent chosing a hold option for centers that will not accept packages for hold.
Lesson learned for me. I won't print the shipping label if I can't first speak to a person physically at the center, to verify they will hold the package.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

EricIvins said:


> Okay - A lot of misleading information here....
> 
> Animals can/will be held at a Fedex "Hub" or Service station. That is the ONLY place they will be held unless prior arrangements are made.
> 
> ..............


If you are following the Lacey Act and have your box labeled properly, then they might not hold your package. Officially, FedEx will only ship live animals if they have inspected your facility and shipping methods first and have issued you a permit to ship live animals through them.

If you are just an average Joe, shipping a frog to a friend and you have your box appropriately labeled, according to FedEx policy, they will not ship or hold your box. Obviously FedEx doesn't always adhere to its own policies or there are a lot of people violating the Lacey Act by not labeling their boxes properly. I have never shipped frogs before, but if/when I do, it seems like using SYR is about the only way a regular hobbiest can be relatively sure that he can comply with the Lacey Act and not have his frogs held up somewhere by a FedEx employee who actually knows their policy on live animals.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

phender said:


> If you are following the Lacey Act and have your box labeled properly, then they might not hold your package. Officially, FedEx will only ship live animals if they have inspected your facility and shipping methods first and have issued you a permit to ship live animals through them.
> 
> If you are just an average Joe, shipping a frog to a friend and you have your box appropriately labeled, according to FedEx policy, they will not ship or hold your box. Obviously FedEx doesn't always adhere to its own policies or there are a lot of people violating the Lacey Act by not labeling their boxes properly. I have never shipped frogs before, but if/when I do, it seems like using SYR is about the only way a regular hobbiest can be relatively sure that he can comply with the Lacey Act and not have his frogs held up somewhere by a FedEx employee who actually knows their policy on live animals.


I imagine very few employees are knowledgeable about all the internal regulations of fed ex (can you really blame them?) and have found that it can be a lot like the game telephone when trying to get clarification on anything.


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

I just boxed up our family dog (plenty of air holes punched and a heat pack was included) and dropped her off at the local fed ex hub. She's one of those small yappy dogs and has warn out her welcome here. I labeled the box "fragile plants" and the delivery address was to Rusty_Shackleford. Let's see if it makes it there.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

ecichlid said:


> I just boxed up our family dog (plenty of air holes punched and a heat pack was included) and dropped her off at the local fed ex hub. She's one of those small happy dogs and has warm out her welcome here. I labeled the box "fragile plants" and the delivery address was to Rusty_Shackleford. Let's see if it makes it there.


Great, just what I need is a yippy dog. 
I need to run out and buy a big snake.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Great, just what I need is a yippy dog.
> I need to run out and buy a big snake.


You're in Florida right? Shouldn't there be an 18 foot python out in your back yard somewhere?


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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

I just got off the phone with my FedEx Rep as I am going to be shipping and receiving Frogs this week and next, here is what she said. All FedEx locations should ship my packages "labeled correctly" she has no idea why some FedEx Kinkos will not but ALL FedEx World Service Centers MUST, as long as you follow the correct labeling and packaging requirements. I have been very fortunate to have never had a problem with shipping or receiving "until today" I just moved and my local FedEx Kinkos will ship them but wont receive them????? they said they would be happy to receive any other packages but not one's containing anything alive. I asked why I could ship them but not receive them, the Manager had no explanation??? My Rep found the next closest location, drove down talked to the manager he introduced me to the staff and explained to them in detail what I was shipping and receiving they were all eager to see the little one's and were impressed by the packaging. So the moral is Do you what are supposed to do the way you are supposed to do it and you should not have a problem. Just my .02


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm just backing what Scott said. All Fedex World Centers will accept your frogs and other live items. Other FedEx locations are not supposed to accept anything live. I did NOT inquire about plants, but they are not even supposed to accept bugs, and indeed, I have been turned away with bugs before. 
As has been pointed out, not all FedEx employees know all the rules, so sometimes local offices may accept a shipment anyway, but it is technically against their rules.
I have shipped many live boxes through the FedEx World Center and never had a problem. They were marked compliant to the Lacey Act, and I've even pointed out that they were live shipments. No problems.


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

Pumilo said:


> As has been pointed out, not all FedEx employees know all the rules, so sometimes local offices may accept a shipment anyway, but it is technically against their rules.


That's the point everyone needs to keep in mind here. Being that just because you're shipment is accepted at drop off, doesn't mean it will get to where you want it to go. All it takes is one employee with a bug up their ass (excuse the pun) to decide to enforce the rules and have your package pulled


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## dartsanddragons (Jun 6, 2004)

Ad by the way, if Rusty doesn't want the yippy dog I'll take him but just until my alarm is installed and will pay shipping both way's


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Ya' know how they say dogs look like their owners? 
This is what I imagine ecichlid's dog looks like.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

Haha,its yours now.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Rusty_Shackleford said:


> Ya' know how they say dogs look like their owners?
> This is what I imagine ecichlid's dog looks like.


Awww, he's so cute 

And yes, all owners look like their dogs. Its a fact. I just wish it was true for frogs.... I'd love to look like a vanzo.


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

Moderator, these posts are getting way off topic!


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