# Culturing flies



## Mark Carden (Jul 25, 2018)

I have never cultured flies. I am in multiple frog groups on Facebook. I see some people make their own cultures while others buy a certain brand. If you have tried multiple brands and home recipes, what do you recommend? Keep in mind I will only be getting 1 frog to start.


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

If you're just starting out I would recommend buying a commercial brand. Repashy Superfly is the one I use/recommend.


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

It's so easy, I wouldn't bother with buying unless something happens to your culture. Can you boil water? Then you can culture fruit flies.
In fact some don't even boil water for the oatmeal.

Oatmeal/bannana and yeast
Oatmeal/apple juice and yeast

There are other recipes but might as well keep it simple.


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## hp192 (Feb 28, 2016)

Culturing you own flies is easy and extremely cost effective. You can make a culture for pennies on the dollar. Read the stickies here and remember my mantra...It's ALWAYS better to too many FF than too few. Good luck.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

There seems to be a bit of ambiguity in this thread. Some posters seem to be addressing the issue of whether to buy FFs or culture your own (posts #4 and possibly #3). Some appear to be advising on homemade media vs commercial media mix (posts #2 and #3). No big deal, but the OP might be getting as mildly confused as I am reading replies.

Mark Carden, you're wondering whether to use commercial media mix (e.g. Superfly, Josh's Media, Glass Box Tropicals Media) or to make your own media from scratch, right? A 'culture' is the plastic cup containing media and FFs already assembled and growing; 'media' is the stuff the FFs eat.


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## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

there is a lot of info online with recipes 
I use bananas, protein powder, yeast, apple juice, 
blended together to form a thick cream like texture but not to wet 
works for me every time
the flies don't eat the media its the maggots that eat it 
so the more protein you put into it the better its for the frogs


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## johnachilli (Feb 8, 2007)

ds51 said:


> there is a lot of info online with recipes
> I use bananas, protein powder, yeast, apple juice,
> blended together to form a thick cream like texture but not to wet
> works for me every time
> ...


This could be misleading as there is no correlation between higher protein levels in the media and higher levels in the fruit flies. However the protein content of the media has been shown to be a limiting resource of fly production. Meaning the more protein the more/larger flies you can get. There is a point though when too much protein equals too much production and the production on waste by the larva (ammonia if i remember correctly) can start to then have a negative impact on the culture.


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## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

johnachilli said:


> This could be misleading as there is no correlation between higher protein levels in the media and higher levels in the fruit flies. However the protein content of the media has been shown to be a limiting resource of fly production. Meaning the more protein the more/larger flies you can get. There is a point though when too much protein equals too much production and the production on waste by the larva (ammonia if i remember correctly) can start to then have a negative impact on the culture.


I use two bananas one teaspoon of bodybuilders protein powder 
1/2 teaspoon of quick baking yeast and enough apple juice to make a thick creamy like texture I divide this into two 16 oz tubs 
and in about 2-3 weeks later you have your flies 
I have never had any problem with this


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## JPP (Mar 25, 2015)

ds51 said:


> I use two bananas one teaspoon of bodybuilders protein powder


Are your flies big and muscular now?


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## SoloSK71 (Dec 25, 2018)

JPP said:


> Are your flies big and muscular now?


They kick substrate on the darts!

Solo


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## ds51 (Oct 13, 2017)

JPP said:


> Are your flies big and muscular now?


haha it just protein to pass on to the frogs


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

ds51 said:


> haha it just protein to pass on to the frogs


Do you have any data to support that?


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## Neopixal (Oct 1, 2015)

Here's a nice thread you can read about FF culture recipes.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/58072-best-homemade-ff-media.html


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Neopixal said:


> Here's a nice thread you can read about FF culture recipes.
> https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/58072-best-homemade-ff-media.html


The thread linked above is dated in some respects as we have a better understanding of some things that are better for the frogs than we did in the past. 

The real question that needs to be asked is whether or not the media produces a fly optimized for the frogs and there are a lot of things that people do that do not optimize the fly for the frogs... such as adding old supplements to the media or boosting protein content, in the former case the flies not only secrete calcium above their needs as fast as they intake it, but they store levels of vitamin E while not storing vitamin A or D3. This means that the flies can upset the ratio of A to D3 to E (100 to 10 to 1) which can cause all kinds of issues like vitamin A deficiency to a form of MBD. 
What we do know for sure is that media that does not contain carotenoids like astaxanthin isn't as good as medias that do contain astaxanthin. (see Dugas, Matthew B., Justin Yeager, and Corinne L. Richards‐Zawacki. "Carotenoid supplementation enhances reproductive success in captive strawberry poison frogs (Oophaga pumilio)." Zoo Biology 32.6 (2013): 655-658.0). 

For the beginner, I would recommend using a commercial media that contains astaxanthin and other carotenoids as opposed to trying to make your own media since the carotenoids can and do go rancid over time requiring diligence in proper storage and the discarding of unused materials when past a certain time limit. 

Personally I use the Repashy Superfly. 

some comments 

Ed


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## gary1218 (Dec 31, 2005)

Ed said:


> For the beginner, I would recommend using a commercial media that contains astaxanthin and other carotenoids as opposed to trying to make your own media since the carotenoids can and do go rancid over time requiring diligence in proper storage and the discarding of unused materials when past a certain time limit.
> 
> Personally I use the Repashy Superfly.
> 
> ...


What he said!!!


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm not going to throw money at a commercial mix.
Too easy to make a nutritional culture for pennies on the dollar compared to those mixes.

They get dusted each time as well.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

JimM said:


> I'm not going to throw money at a commercial mix.
> Too easy to make a nutritional culture for pennies on the dollar compared to those mixes.


Jim, have you done any calculations as to how much a culture's worth of media costs you? I recall measuring out Josh's media (the brand I use) and finding that it costs me $0.60 each culture. I ask about 'per culture' rather than 'per pound' since one media might need more volume per culture (because it molds at a different rate, flies have to eat less of it, etc).


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Ed said:


> The thread linked above is dated in some respects as we have a better understanding of some things that are better for the frogs than we did in the past.
> 
> The real question that needs to be asked is whether or not the media produces a fly optimized for the frogs and there are a lot of things that people do that do not optimize the fly for the frogs... such as adding old supplements to the media or boosting protein content, in the former case the flies not only secrete calcium above their needs as fast as they intake it, but they store levels of vitamin E while not storing vitamin A or D3. This means that the flies can upset the ratio of A to D3 to E (100 to 10 to 1) which can cause all kinds of issues like vitamin A deficiency to a form of MBD.
> What we do know for sure is that media that does not contain carotenoids like astaxanthin isn't as good as medias that do contain astaxanthin. (see Dugas, Matthew B., Justin Yeager, and Corinne L. Richards‐Zawacki. "Carotenoid supplementation enhances reproductive success in captive strawberry poison frogs (Oophaga pumilio)." Zoo Biology 32.6 (2013): 655-658.0).
> ...


This is an informed version of the reason I think using a long-standing, professionally prepared mix is best. If I make my own media, and some weird thing is going wrong with my frogs (Incorrect A to D3 to E ratio? Lack of carotenoids? How would I ever figure it out? Bunch of people with PhDs and a university lab have to work hard to discover this; I have zero chance), I can check with other users of the media; if none of them are experiencing what I'm experiencing, I can troubleshoot other aspects of my care. If I'm using some media I mix up by the batch with grocery store stuff, I would have little way to exclude that as a causal factor in whatever problem my frogs are having.


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Jim, have you done any calculations as to how much a culture's worth of media costs you? I recall measuring out Josh's media (the brand I use) and finding that it costs me $0.60 each culture. I ask about 'per culture' rather than 'per pound' since one media might need more volume per culture (because it molds at a different rate, flies have to eat less of it, etc).


I appreciate this post - I'll look into it further.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Jim, have you done any calculations as to how much a culture's worth of media costs you? I recall measuring out Josh's media (the brand I use) and finding that it costs me $0.60 each culture. I ask about 'per culture' rather than 'per pound' since one media might need more volume per culture (because it molds at a different rate, flies have to eat less of it, etc).


I just reran my calculations: at the current sale price for a 3lb bag ($14.99), my cultures cost $0.57 each for media; at the regular price ($17.99), each culture is $0.69. I usually buy at the lower price.

I make two cultures a week, so I never even seriously considered trying to save money; I'm only spending five bucks a month, so even halving that doesn't sound to me as if it is worth any effort at all. I suppose that someone who is making 10x that many cultures might be more motivated.


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## JimM (Oct 2, 2018)

That all sounds good to me...thank you.


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## Mark Carden (Jul 25, 2018)

Thank you all for the replies!


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