# 24x18x24 Exo log with pictures



## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

So I've been off the grid for a while now, but I recently got a 24x18x24 exo from a family member. I've been slowly working on it one step at a time. I don't want to rush this build I want to do it right. so I will just post the progress so far, I'm just waiting to get some funding to start buying plants then I can plant it.

so here is the tank with a pre-made BG that I'm using as a base to go off of.





Since the BG seems to have some type of resistance to water unless soaked in it i decided to coat most of the BG in Peat with Titebond 3, however i wanted to keep some of the rock outcrops to make it look like the rocks are jutting out.









in the tank




Now making the False floor and fitting it in place then wrapping it in weed block.











I coated the sides that are going to be where i put the foam with black silicone so it will hide the foam. Now since the BG is just about the size of the back wall i needed a way to seal the cracks and the small little gaps so nothing can get behind the viv.



once it cured i needed to carve it down to get back some of the viv. however i didnt take pics at this point i just got pics after i siliconed the foam and spread the ABG mix all over the back.









Now since the exo has a plastic bar in the center of the top i decided to use this to have vines coming down. all i did was drill a tiny hole to stick the wire through and wrap it around the plastic bar. note these are the store bought fake vines. i can swap them out with homemade ones with rope/wire/sphagnum, if these don't work out. 





So this is the point I'm at now. I just need to save some money to start buying plants and some LED lights. all im using at the moment will be 26W daylight CFLs. any comments or criticism appreciated.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

One of the best rock background I've seen. I like it!


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

rigel10 said:


> One of the best rock background I've seen. I like it!


Yeah I saw it and really wanted to try to use it as a good template to work off of. I'm not sure if anyone's ever used said BG so I guess its going to be a trial run.


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Is that a Universal Rock insert?

Looks good with all the work ya did. Keep it up.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

carola1155 said:


> Is that a Universal Rock insert?
> 
> Looks good with all the work ya did. Keep it up.


I think so, I can't for the life of me remember the brand it came from. it came in the 24x24 size they also had one for the 12x18. 

thank you. I'm hoping to get some plants in it soon. 


side note:
Should I wait until i plant it before putting in the leaf litter? or could I just put the leaf litter in. then move the leaf litter around when planting?


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Can anyone identify this plant?


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

Heartagramtc said:


> I think so, I can't for the life of me remember the brand it came from. it came in the 24x24 size they also had one for the 12x18.
> 
> thank you. I'm hoping to get some plants in it soon.
> 
> ...


I was digging through the universal rock site today and couldn't seem to find one that looked like that. Where did you buy it from?

Also, the leaf litter thing is up to you... It would be good to get it in there for when you add microfauna, but I don't know if it'll really benefit anything to put it in before that. It might get annoying pushing things around when you are planting. I know when I plant a viv it takes a few tries... but actually, looking at the pic you just posted it seems like you put it in already so nvm haha.

Not sure what that plant is, but I would get its roots in the substrate.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

carola1155 said:


> I was digging through the universal rock site today and couldn't seem to find one that looked like that. Where did you buy it from?
> 
> Also, the leaf litter thing is up to you... It would be good to get it in there for when you add microfauna, but I don't know if it'll really benefit anything to put it in before that. It might get annoying pushing things around when you are planting. I know when I plant a viv it takes a few tries... but actually, looking at the pic you just posted it seems like you put it in already so nvm haha.
> 
> Not sure what that plant is, but I would get its roots in the substrate.



Here's the link for the BG HerpSupplies.com - 3D Rock Background - PennPlax - 3D Rock Background - Penn PlaxEasily Transform your Terrarium into a Real...

as for the leaf litter I was impatient and decided since it will be a while before I get most of my more exotic plants like the broms and orchids. That way I could get started on my Microfauna.

The plant came from a store in the SF bay area called East Bay Vivariums. My aunt has a tank that shes had for years now and got a cutting from them, and i took a cutting from her a while ago to start in my 12x12 exo. and it took that tank over so I'm just trying to see if i can get it to start on the branch. I also have it planted in two other locations in the tank to try to get started.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

so I got my Leaf Litter in, i used dried oak leaves, I might order some Magnolia or India almond leaves so theres some different sizes, but unsure right now. 

I also put in a few plants, one of which I dont know what it is as i posted in the pic above a few posts. I tried it in three different areas to see which one takes. as well as a clipping from a creeping fig. Which in the picture isnt placed where it will go.




Soon I will get a button fern and possibly a birds nest fern. Anyone have any luck with Birds nest ferns?


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## Sammie (Oct 12, 2009)

Yes, Birds nest ferns are easy and does great in vivs. It gets huge though, but it takes a while.


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## Amphinityfrogs (Jan 30, 2013)

Great job on the background. It looks great. Love the ledges as well.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

As I said, I like how you customized the background. But do you have any idea about the frogs? I think Hilolaxus or tincs, but leucs are good the same.


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Heartagramtc said:


> Can anyone identify this plant?


Its is hard to tell with all the reflection, but it could be Calathea undulata.


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

phender said:


> Its is hard to tell with all the reflection, but it could be Calathea undulata.


Sure its not a Epicea "Silver Skies"....it looks like some of the growths I have.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Not sure if these pics will help


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

rigel10 said:


> As I said, I like how you customized the background. But do you have any idea about the frogs? I think Hilolaxus or tincs, but leucs are good the same.


Thank you. As for the question of which frogs, I'm not sure that was going to be one of my next questions. Which type is Hilolaxus? I've never heard of that?


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## carola1155 (Sep 10, 2007)

hyloxalus azureiventris

Pretty cool and very active group frog


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Azurel said:


> Sure its not a Epicea "Silver Skies"....it looks like some of the growths I have.


Now that I look again, it does look fuzzy. Some sort of Epicea is probably a better guess than mine.


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

I suggested you hilolaxus because your rocky background reminded me of theie habitat. I know they are heavy males, however,
Another species from rocky habitat is mysteriosus, but these frogs are not legal.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

rigel10 said:


> I suggested you hilolaxus because your rocky background reminded me of theie habitat. I know they are heavy males, however,
> Another species from rocky habitat is mysteriosus, but these frogs are not legal.


wow I've never seen hyloxalus azureiventris. Are they even sold in the US? I couldn't find any place that sells them. Or do I have to find a private seller?


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Does anyone know if 1/8 glass would suffice to replace the top screen of my Exo? I would cut it about 3"short so I can still make a vent in the very front. I also am using the Exo medium hood so it doesn't really rest on the glass. Any input would be fantastic!


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

Heartagramtc said:


> Does anyone know if 1/8 glass would suffice to replace the top screen of my Exo? I would cut it about 3"short so I can still make a vent in the very front. I also am using the Exo medium hood so it doesn't really rest on the glass. Any input would be fantastic!


I used two pieces of 3/32" glass and it's doing just fine. I just removed the spline that holds in the screen and siliconed the glass under the plastic frame. There is a separation down the middle so you need two pieces of glass. Looks nice and clean, no grinding of plastic, easy.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I did the same thing as Phender, but with 1/8" glass


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

If I just silicone it to the plastic frame do you think 1/16 would work out should I stick with the thicker 1/8. Also did you leave space for a vent or did you just glass the whole thing?


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Bump. If anyone could tell me if 1/16 glass could work for mounting to the Frame top underside?


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## phender (Jan 9, 2009)

I think the 1/8" is probably better, but 1/16" would probably work. I just used the normal Home Depot stuff.

I put my screen in the middle because I thought it might give better circulation. (I don't know if it does or not.) I just re-splined a bit of fiberglass screen and then siliconed the glass on top with a little overlap. I was going to run a bead of silicone over the screen to attach it to the glass, but it was so tight it didn't seem to need it. Plus, I don't often see my auratus walking upside down on the top glass.


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## brettxxx4 (Jun 16, 2013)

You have some Talent my friend. 


Brett
Charlotte nc


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## rigel10 (Jun 1, 2012)

Heartagramtc said:


> wow I've never seen hyloxalus azureiventris. Are they even sold in the US? I couldn't find any place that sells them. Or do I have to find a private seller?


Try searching on "Marketplace". Hylolaxus are not common and they are heavy males.


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

Id go with 1/8" (I even thicker glass). 1/16" is pretty weak, especially when in a large piece like you would use. If something fell on it - might break it


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

phender said:


> I think the 1/8" is probably better, but 1/16" would probably work. I just used the normal Home Depot stuff.
> 
> I put my screen in the middle because I thought it might give better circulation. (I don't know if it does or not.) I just re-splined a bit of fiberglass screen and then siliconed the glass on top with a little overlap. I was going to run a bead of silicone over the screen to attach it to the glass, but it was so tight it didn't seem to need it. Plus, I don't often see my auratus walking upside down on the top glass.


I gotcha The only reason i asked about the thickness is because I work @ Orchard supply and we get a lot of scrap glass that i can buy for $1 but its mostly 1/16 that we get extra leftovers from. 



brettxxx4 said:


> You have some Talent my friend.
> 
> Brett
> Charlotte nc



Thanks, Sadly it wasnt too difficult due to the fact that the BG was pretty much already finished. 



rigel10 said:


> Try searching on "Marketplace". Hylolaxus are not common and they are heavy males.


Yeah Ive been looking into them. They look very nice Im just not sure if i want a group of just males. as finding a female is difficult. 



TerraFerma said:


> Id go with 1/8" (I even thicker glass). 1/16" is pretty weak, especially when in a large piece like you would use. If something fell on it - might break it


Good point I shall take it into consideration. I almost feel if im going to use the 1/8 Ill just replace the whole top like I did for my 12x12 exo.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

On another note, when can I start seeding the tank? and what exactly should I seed it with? I know Springtails, but I've read about Isopods too. 

Im sure it also Depends on what frogs im getting. Which will bring me into the next question, What frogs are good as this is my actual first Dart Frog to ever have. I know someone said Hyloaxus but I know they are heavy male, i dont mind that but I do want to be able to have tads as i'd like to experience that. I really like the Imitator lines such as the varadero and highland. However I know they are a smaller frog and a Little more difficult to care for. And im not a big fan of tincs. 

any input or other suggestions would be great.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

So it looks like my Episcia 'silver sky' cutting is taking to its new home.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Haven't updated in a while, but I got my plants, and have gotten the tank planted.

I bought some plants from stores in town, like a small fern, birds nest fern, a type of peperomia, and a bromeliad.

Then I just got my order in from Dart Frog Connection. I ordered the 6 plant pack bundle as well as a neo. Dungsiana.

now the plants they sent I didn't get to choose. but consists of 2 broms, 1 jewel orchid, and 3 foliage plants. The only plants that were named are the broms. So im unsure of what everything else is. I have ideas of what they are, but i wouldn't think they would be suitable in a viv due to size. however i still planted them all anyways. 

so here goes:

The plants i bought at the store

unknown peperomia


Birds nest fern


Creeping Fig


hypoestes




now these plants are the ones ordered from Dart Frog Connection which I don't know what they are and if they will even work in my Viv.

what I think is a type of arrowhead philodendron


I think spathiphyllum


and another type of peperomia


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

And then the Bromeliads 

Neo. 'wild tiger' Grace Goode


Neo. Dungsiana


Neo. 'Flicker'



And here is the Jewel Orchid




now for overall FTS
























I could use some advice in making sure everything looks good where planted or if i need to pull anything. The orchid for example, is it mounted properly? too low? in the ground or just fine where it is? 

Thanks for looking!


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

so i just found out that i have 3 plants in here that will grow way too big for the tank. Two are on the right side which is the spathiphyllum, and bigger peperomia, as well as the arrowhead philodendron in the center. 

any advice if i should leave them for now or just take them out and plant them in some nice pots to enjoy as my new house plants?


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## WVFrogman (Jan 20, 2014)

Awesome build! Love it give me some ideas on what to do next.


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## Nismo95 (Jul 30, 2011)

I dont know if I missed it, but what brand of vines are those? I really dig how realistic they look!


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Nismo95 said:


> I dont know if I missed it, but what brand of vines are those? I really dig how realistic they look!


Honestly iI couldn't tell you. I bought them about 6 years ago from petsmart. They basically are Manila rope wrapped around a stiff wire but have a type of sphagnum-ish material coated onto it. I had two different sizes and wrapped them around each other.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Just a little update. So far everything has been taking very well, I'm seeing a lot of growth from the plants. I've added a fan but don't run it very often as its quite loud and pushes quite a bit of air, so I'm looking for something that I can use to adjust the fan speed.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm thinking I have too many large growing plants in here. I'm thinking i might pull some of them and try to find lower growing plants or just better choices. The ones I'm referring to would be the philodendron, spathyphyllum, and the large growing peperomia on the left side. Any thoughts or input would be gratefu. 

Thanks!


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Is there anyone who could give me advice on the plants? Trying not to make a whole new thread.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Just wanted to post a recent pic of where my tanks at. The ficus doesn't seem like it's growing like crazy and kind of yellow. But here it is none the less. 



What do you think? Ready for frogs?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I've been asked to comment on the possibility of thumbnails in this viv.
As I scanned through the thread, I did have one immediate concern. I see you had concerns too, and removed it. I couldn't help but notice that the large leafed plant in the left front, was a prime hiding place for thumbnails....a prime hiding place, at floor level, inches from the door.
Thumbnails are not really actively trying to escape, but sometimes it seems that way. What's really going on is this. If they are near the door, and pointed in the general vicinity of the door when you startle them, they will jump. If you have created a perfect hiding spot right near the door, and you can't see them, it's only a matter of time.
The tiny leafed Peperomia near that spot now, looks like a much better choice for the location, if you go with thumbs. I do fear that it looks a little shaded there. Maybe it's just the photo, but it looks like it might be brighter a little closer to where you took the big one from.

Otherwise I would say that thumbs are going to love that back wall! Make sure you don't get so overgrown that you can't see them exploring it. Normally I would say for thumbnails to try and maximize the use of "negative space". I like to use large Ghost wood structures to help make the negative space, useful. Your vines help with that some, and you do have some smaller pieces of wood that help. Your use of broms certainly help and as they fill in, should create even more structure.

You have the size to do a group thumb, but I always recommend Imitators for a first thumbnail. They are bolder than many thumbs, active, and available in so many different colors and patterns. One thing I really love about Imitators is this. We all love to watch our frogs, that's a given. But only the Imitators seem to be every bit as enthralled with watching me.
So once again, I have say a pair of Imitators, any morph, would do great for you.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Thank you Doug! 

Thats something I never thought about, I just took the plant out because it was getting too big. I'll keep that in mind in future builds. As for the dark spot under the peperomia it's not as dark as in the picture, however it is shadowed. I also have the "cave" in the bottom left side you can't tell from the pics but if you look at the WIP background pics you can see what I'm talking about. It gets no light there, is that a bad thing? 

I can assume everyone knows I'm looking into Ranitomeya for this tank, and if anyone else has any suggestions, or input, I'm all ears! Or eyes in this case. I'm not looking to break the bank with the pair or group I get, but I'd like to know if any certain type would do better in my tank, and about how many do you think would be ok in here. Just a pair, a trio, or possibly more? 

During the summer it gets pretty hot here in Fresno, the warmest it's been in the tank was about 81*F. I'm sure that might have some effect on which species I'd choose. I do plan on switching out my three 23W CFL daylight bulbs for some jungle dawns at some point, so the temp should decrease some. 

Any advice on frogs, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

A little clarification. I said you had the space for a group thumbnail, _BUT_ I like Imis for a first thumbnai. Emphasis on "but". I do not consider Imitators a good group frog. It can be done, but it takes a bit of experience and special precautions, to group Imitators. They can be aggressive towards same sex frogs when they reach breeding age.
I like to do Imitators as a pair. One male and one female. Many people will buy a group of 3 or even 4 juvies, grow them up together, and when they hit breeding age, let a pair choose each other. Sell, trade, or set up another viv for the others.
Imitators as a group, can experience both, male to male aggression, and female to female aggression.

If you decide to do a group of thumbnails, I would like to see you step away from Imitators, and instead consider Variabilis, Vanzos (only if raised together from froglets), Ventramaculata, Amazonica, Sirensis/formerly Lamasi (can be extremely shy), and more towards the intermediate to advanced end, Benedicta, Fantastica, and Summersi. 
I'm probably forgetting something, but there's a start for you.

If you decide to go with Imitators, but you decide to group them anyway, I would highly recommend making some changes to your viv. You'll need to establish territories, physical barriers, and visual barriers. If you decide to go that route, let me know and I'll dig up a good link for you on construction techniques and ideas for grouping Imitators.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Again thank you Doug. 

I definitely don't mind getting just a pair, and if you think imitators are the better thumb to start with I'll most likely go with a pair of imitators. I don't think I'm experienced enough to group imitators together, so if I'm really wanting a group I'll go with any other than imitators. 

Does anyone else have some $. 02 to chip in? Past experience with ranitomeya, which are better starter frogs? Thanks for looking!


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

latest update

removed a few plants and added a few more. 

heres a list of what i know i have, i need to figure out what the unknowns are.


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## Heartagramtc (Jul 24, 2011)

Just thought I'd give a little update

I purchased 4 Tarapoto Imitators, and 3 of the 4 are males, I've since pulled the most subordinate of the males, and kept the two in the enclosure. Im pretty sure the 4th is Female, its much bigger than the others and i have not seen any calling from that one. 



One of the males


The other male:


Female following one of the males.


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