# Building a dart frog vivarium out of a 10 gallon aquarium?



## PartyFrog

I have been keeping freshwater aquarium fish for about 10 years and so much so that I built a fish room just to keep them all. Over the last few years I have continuously been intrigued by dart frogs but I have never made the jump and purchased any mainly because I was so involved with keeping fish. Well over the last six months I have emptied most of my fish stock so now I am sitting here with 20-30 empty ten gallon fish aquariums and 10-12 empty 20 gallon long fish aquariums. A few days ago I went to a Goodwill store with my wife to drop some things off and low and behold while walking through the store there sat an 18x18x18 Exo Terra terrarium is nearly perfect condition for $20. Instantly I thought ok of this isn't a sign that I need to get me a few dart frogs and try them out I have no clue what would be so I bought the terrarium and have been watching videos at Josh's Frog ever since trying to learn everything I can before buying the frogs. From my time keeping aquarium fish nothing irritates me more than someone buying fish from me and having no clue what it takes to keep them beforehand so right now I am in the learning phase of my eventual frog purchase. Anyway I say all of that to say that I have these empty fish tanks so I was just curious if there is anyway that I can turn these empty fish aquariums into vertical enclosures and if so do any of you have pictures of your own projects that might be similar to what I am wanting to do so I can get some ideas? I know that 10 gallon tanks won't make very big vivariums but I figured that amount of space would probably work quite well to house a pair of frogs or maybe some young juveniles. This looks like a great forum with a lot of knowledgeable people so any advice on how I might be able to use these empty aquariums to house dart frogs would be greatly appreciated.


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## greenthumbs

A 10 gallon horizontal with a tight fitting glass fish tank lid would be fine for a pair of anthonyi, auratus, tinctorius, leucomelas, and a few others. It would also work for a pair or trio of thumbnails, like amazonicus or sirensis, although these would prefer a vertical.


Vertical conversion kits are easy to find. I think Dendroboard user Dane sells them, I would message and ask.


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## Lake

I'm not sure if they are still being sold, but there's something called a frog face that converts ten gallons to vertical tanks for dart frogs


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## Lake

I found it, it looks like he's testing out a new model
Frog Cube | Beta Testing


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## PartyFrog

Lake said:


> I'm not sure if they are still being sold, but there's something called a frog face that converts ten gallons to vertical tanks for dart frogs


I checked out that website and that kit seems awesome are pretty straight forward. It doesn't look like you can buy those right now from the site but hopefully he makes them available soon.


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## PartyFrog

greenthumbs said:


> A 10 gallon horizontal with a tight fitting glass fish tank lid would be fine for a pair of anthonyi, auratus, tinctorius, leucomelas, and a few others. It would also work for a pair or trio of thumbnails, like amazonicus or sirensis, although these would prefer a vertical.
> 
> 
> Vertical conversion kits are easy to find. I think Dendroboard user Dane sells them, I would message and ask.


Thanks I will check that out.


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## DragonSpirit1185

I would work with the 20 longs and not the 10 gallon tanks. 10 gallons is pushing it for even just a pair. I have a pair in a 10 gallon but only because they were froglets and I recently got a 20 gallon to build once I move back to the East Coast.


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## gope

There are people with much more experience than I that may disagree, but in my opinion a 10 gallon aquarium is too small to house frogs long term. My first viv is a 25 gal tall aquarium currently housing a trio of pumilio and I can't imagine giving them anything smaller. Surely not tincs or larger frogs.
I've also been keeping fish for a long time and feel the same way about most fish. Only fry, nano fish & shrimp in a 10 gal.


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## Ed

gope said:


> There are people with much more experience than I that may disagree, but in my opinion a 10 gallon aquarium is too small to house frogs long term. My first viv is a 25 gal tall aquarium currently housing a trio of pumilio and I can't imagine giving them anything smaller. Surely not tincs or larger frogs.
> I've also been keeping fish for a long time and feel the same way about most fish. Only fry, nano fish & shrimp in a 10 gal.


It all depends on the set up. If its not set up right then a bigger tank isn't going to solve the problem. 

This is a problem when people recommend minimal sizes for the frogs. If the tank is badly set up it could supply far less appropriate space for the frogs than a properly setup ten gallon tank. 

It is almost non-existent for people to comment on how to set up the tank properly. As an example, look at all of the plant choked enclosures with little or no open space for the movement of the frogs (particularly larger species). One of the biggest problems with newer people is that they tend to over-plant the enclosures because it looks like there is a lot of empty space. Rarely is there any discussion on whether or not the frogs would prefer it open or not instead it is very common to see people say, you've got lots of space you could add some more bromeliads etc which then ends up resulting in massively overplanted enclosures. Often when setting up a tank, less is generally more ... 

It doesn't matter if it is a ten gallon enclosure or a 30 foot by 30 foot room, statements about minimal sized enclosures have little value unless there is context added. Otherwise its nothing more than pure dogma being passed off as an opinion. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## PartyFrog

Ed said:


> Rarely is there any discussion on whether or not the frogs would prefer it open or not instead it is very common to see people say, you've got lots of space you could add some more bromeliads etc which then ends up resulting in massively overplanted enclosures. Often when setting up a tank, less is generally more ...
> 
> Ed


Having watched hundreds of videos showing people's vivariums over the last few months I have wondered why many of them are so heavily planted that you can barely find the frogs if at all. I understand that some frogs are just shy by nature and stay hidden most of the time no matter how much cover is in their habitat but for some of the more bold frogs it seems that a good bit of open area would be beneficial not just for viewing purposes but also for the frogs themselves as you have suggested.


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## PartyFrog

I am just thinking out loud a little here but I wonder if a glass shop could cut out two large matching squares in the sides of two of my 20 gallon long tanks? If they could do that I could connect two tanks with silicone and then use some quick stuff foam to seamlessly join the two tanks into one vivarium.


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## Ed

PartyFrog said:


> I am just thinking out loud a little here but I wonder if a glass shop could cut out two large matching squares in the sides of two of my 20 gallon long tanks? If they could do that I could connect two tanks with silicone and then use some quick stuff foam to seamlessly join the two tanks into one vivarium.


You could simply break the glass between the two aquariums and then carefully clean the glass and remove the old silicone (you need to remove all of it) and then seal them together. Much cheaper than trying to get the local glass people to remove it. In either case you need to remove the black trim or you won't be able to get the two enclosures to sit tight enough together that you could then seal them. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## PartyFrog

Ed said:


> You could simply break the glass between the two aquariums and then carefully clean the glass and remove the old silicone (you need to remove all of it) and then seal them together. Much cheaper than trying to get the local glass people to remove it. In either case you need to remove the black trim or you won't be able to get the two enclosures to sit tight enough together that you could then seal them.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


I will try my luck at that tomorrow Ed. Thanks for that info.


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## DragonSpirit1185

Ed said:


> You could simply break the glass between the two aquariums and then carefully clean the glass and remove the old silicone (you need to remove all of it) and then seal them together. Much cheaper than trying to get the local glass people to remove it. In either case you need to remove the black trim or you won't be able to get the two enclosures to sit tight enough together that you could then seal them.
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


Which also requires removing the frame just so you know, PartyFrog. 
Butting them against each other won't be very seamless because of the frame.
Instead of removing the entire frame you could just use a razor knife and cut off just 2 sides of the frame you're joining but it's still gonna be hard getting that glass out without breaking the other panes of glass without removing the frame. 
I have a 39 gallon tank that had a crack on the side and I had to remove the frame just to replace the piece of glass. 
It can be done but wow it's tedious. 
I actually used a little hacksaw and cut the corners then cut it in the center then used my razor knife and worked the silicone loose.
Also with doing this you might have a hard time getting a glass top on there since you will have to do it in 2 pieces and most tanks that need two tops have a center brace.

Idk maybe Ed has some better ideas about the top but I know that frame is gonna get in the way.


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