# Shyness trouble with R. Amazonica



## mikemakesapps (Mar 11, 2019)

I have some R. Amazonica "Iquitos" that are very shy and I'm getting some buyer's remorse... I know these frogs are supposed to be on the shyer side, but I literally _never_ them see unless I dig them up out of the leaf litter. I work from home and the vivarium is near my desk, but I've _never _seen them come out on their own. (This is in contrast to my R. Imitators, which I see _all_ the time, they even come to the door when it's feeding time)

I'm wondering if anyone has any tips for getting to see them more often.

Things I've tried so far:

Humidity: keeping it within 70 - 90%
Temperature: my house temps run a little cold (between 60F -65F) so I've tried adding a little extra heat via a heat pad on the side of the tank. This hasn't done much to raise temps according to my very imprecise thermometer but I'm hoping it helps a little bit.
Asking them nicely (none of these have produced better results yet)

I've heard that the frogs will embolden when they reach sexual maturity -- I've heard at least one calling, albeit very rarely. Should I expect them to become more bold? I'm currently considering re-homing them and trying some R. Variabilis instead.


----------



## mikemakesapps (Mar 11, 2019)

Pic of the viv for reference 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

I almost never see my Ranitomeya amazonica "Iquitos" the most shy frogs I've owned


----------



## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

Preface: Individual frogs, and even groups, can vary wildly with regards to boldness. And there are many variables between vivs that can affect boldness. Humidity, temp, size, airflow, light level, hardscape, plants, feeding routine, outside traffic, etc.

That said, my amazonica were always more shy than my variabilis. And calling variabilis “bold” is relative to other Ranitomeya.

edit: seeing your posted pic, there is a lot of “unsheltered” floor area. If that was my tank, I wouldn’t expect to see any Ranitomeya in the front 2/3 of the viv.


----------



## blackradon (Apr 2, 2020)

From what I’ve read, lots of cover but not just leaf litter. Heavily planted setups will give them a feeling of security and will come out more.. again that’s just from what I’ve read and don’t really have any first hand experiences. Time will tell, get some more plants on the ground with bigger leafs so they can feel more sheltered.. great start btw!

edit: how do you mist and how often?


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

I've found the heavier the tank is planted, the bolder the frogs. More and larger bromeliads may help embolden them, with more places they can easily escape to if they feel threatened.

How many are in the group?


----------



## mikemakesapps (Mar 11, 2019)

Broseph said:


> Preface: Individual frogs, and even groups, can vary wildly with regards to boldness. And there are many variables between vivs that can affect boldness. Humidity, temp, size, airflow, light level, hardscape, plants, feeding routine, outside traffic, etc.
> 
> That said, my amazonica were always more shy than my variabilis. And calling variabilis “bold” is relative to other Ranitomeya.
> 
> edit: seeing your posted pic, there is a lot of “unsheltered” floor area. If that was my tank, I wouldn’t expect to see any Ranitomeya in the front 2/3 of the viv.


Thanks for the responses all! Yeah I think I will add more plant cover to the fore/midground. Any recommendations for plants?

Also, I only keep Ranitomeya right now, so that's my only reference point. My imitators have a similarly planted tank, and they're bold as can be. I'm hoping with more plants the amazonica will be happier.

@blackradon I mist every day, by hand. I try to keep the viv wet, but not soaked.

@Chris S the group right now is down to 2: I raised them from purchased tads, one tad died. I had 3 froglets in a grow-out, then moved them into this viv after 3 months, but since then have only been able to find 2 of them -- so either one died in the viv or is hiding well (a real possibility) 
EDIT: After _months_ of not knowing if all 3 frogs still existed, I finally found the third! It actually came up out of the leaf litter for a brief moment, (I have the other two sequestered away in a separate holding container, so I know that there are 3 of them)


----------



## mikemakesapps (Mar 11, 2019)

I've gone and added more broms, wood, some begonias, and more to fill out the vivarium, and I think it’s made a big difference. I didn’t realize how sparse it was originally, but looking at it now, I understand why the frogs were buried in the leaf litter before! There are more areas of shadow and more things to break up line of sight in the bottom / middle areas.

I just re-introduced them to the tank, and they seem to like it! One of them has even been visible, doing some exploring among the new plants. Hopefully they keep it up 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Looks really good! Let us know if the shyness subsides.


----------



## Broseph (Dec 5, 2011)

Much more inviting! Nice combination of leaf litter sizes too.


----------



## LCBeckett (Dec 20, 2018)

I have Iquitos too, absolutely adore them and 100% made the right choice as you can lose yourself looking for them. Can vouch for the more plants, more frog sightings. As I've let mine grow thicker and greener I now see them more as there is more broken viewing points. 1 thing I had to do fairly early on is remove 1 particular deep hiding spot as they simple went in there and stayed there. Interesting that you mention the litter as mine never go to ground, they stay hidden in the upper booms and branches, unless they're breeding, then they don't care who is watching and are often all in view all day. I think you've maybe got the plant level spot on now. I have a few taller leafed plants at the front of mine so you look through at the frogs.


----------



## LCBeckett (Dec 20, 2018)

I have 4 in the main viv, 3 I see daily, 1 that is lesser spotted.


----------



## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Man, looks fantastic!


----------



## LCBeckett (Dec 20, 2018)

Vivarium Pictures

Pictures of my viv as it started and as it became. Remarkably similar to yours.


----------



## mikemakesapps (Mar 11, 2019)

Thanks for the feedback, just looked at the other thread, your viv looks great! I love the density of it, it's very visually interesting.
Looking at yours, I think if anything I can keep adding more plants and places to create shadow / hides. 
Do you have any particular plants that you would recommend? In terms of breaking up the visual space. Or even just some general design tips would be appreciated!


----------



## LCBeckett (Dec 20, 2018)

The frogs seem to like Chamaedorea Elegant as it creates a vision barrier. They don't really climb on it, but they noticeably use the 2 broms behind it more than the others. I think it's been clipped back in my photos but it can grow to the full height, then I take it back before it overruns all the other plants.


----------



## mikemakesapps (Mar 11, 2019)

Update: been about a month after adding more broms, begonias, vining plants, and others, the viv is significantly more dense, especially on the ground.

The frogs are still very shy, but I actually seem them now, maybe every couple of days.
I've figured out that if I mist them, feed them, and then turn on the water-pump which drives the drip wall for a couple minutes, they will reliably come out and exhibit some breeding behaviors (calling and chasing one another). So, it's nice to be able to see the frogs finally!

That being said... I'm wondering if anyone can weigh in with similar perspective to @Broseph: anyone who's kept both R. Variabilis (southern?) and R. Amazonica (Iquitos) have any opinion on which is the bolder frog (relative to each other and Ranitomeya in general)? (I'm having a little bit of buyer's remorse maybe)


----------

