# Mossy Frogs & Water



## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

I recently got some Mossy Frogs on Frog Day in Staten Island. I have never had these frogs before, they seem to be tree frogs to me. Anyway, they're doing great and I love watching them. They are so crazy looking. My query is that all of the care sheets I have read all say to have a 1/3 or 1/2 of the tank filled with water about 4 to 5 inches because they are swimmers. I have experimented with a couple of tank setups, one with 1/2 the tank water. I have not seen these frogs go into the water at all. They ususally are always stuck to the walls of the tank like tree frogs do, or when they're hungry, they come to land to feed, but they are mostly stuck on the walls, sometimes all right next to each other. I have 3 in a 29 gallon tank, now maybe with a water area of 8" X 6" about 5" deep. Anyone out there have any comments on this or some tank setup recommendations, I would appreaciate it. Thanks!


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## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

Oh one more thing. I have also read that mossy frogs are not sensitive to lighting. I have noticed that they are more active with the lights off simulating night time. I use a cycle of 12 hours with a fluorecent light and 12 hours with a night (moon) light.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Theloderma like _T. corticale_ are often described as "semi-aquatic treefrogs". Talk about an oddball (the only description I've heard that is more odd than that is a semi-arboreal fossorial species... how can a species be hanging out in the soil and climbing at the same time?! It's a cool life history tho). Some species spend more time in the water then corticale does (one of the other species I'm working with rarely leaves the water), but corticale still prefer to at least be around water. They seem to hand around water, breeding in quieter pools. The will often stick around the rocks and what not near this area, tho not always in the water. You can often have almost the entire bottom of the tank water if you've got enough decor above the water for them to hang out on, like driftwood and rocks.

Some interesting reading from the researchers that have introduced us to this and other wonderful Theloderma species.


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## spawn (Jan 2, 2007)

AB, I envy your frogs because mine resides in the water all day, only coming out to feed. Are you filtering the water? Maybe the resonations from the airstone or filter are bothering the frogs? Are they juveniles? I would think juveniles could be more terrestrial. Otherwise, I know adults like the water.


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## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

My first setup I had the tank filled with about 4" of water with pieces of slate protruding through the surface on one side. They all hung around the rocks but ususally stick to the walls. They are a couple of months old. I did have a filter running then and have a filter running constantly now. There is a piece of cork bark floating in the middle of the tuppaware I am using as the water area. Maybe they are being bothered by the filter like you said, I'll try taking it out. I mean there is no problem or anything, I just want them to be comfortable. I wish they would tell me "Yo, I want more land not water" or vice versa. My setup now is I have a clear tuppaware that fits perfectly into the tank about 8" X 6" and 5" deep that I use as the water area. I did have one that was like 12" X 15" but I took it out after seeing them not use it at all. The land area is in order from bottom to top is: soil, cypress mulch, some sheet moss with some live plants. Thinking of getting that jungle vine for the water so they have more things to climb on in the water. I wonder why yours always stay in the water. I would love for mine to swim! What's your setup like?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Simple way to test if its the moving water or not... put in another tupperware with no water movement in it, and see if they migrate over to that one. If you find them hanging out in the still water, then you know to take the filter out of the water.

I just do partial water changes, and have no filter or even bubbler in the water. The T. licin seem to love it :roll: I just look for the little floating frogs... 

I would not suprise me with the life history of the frog that the froglets are more actively arboreal, and as breeding adults they get more aquatic. Due to the types of water bodies they seem to favor (still pools) it would make sense for the juveniles to spread out and disperse, looking for new pools, so they wouldn't be as aquatic.


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## jerry b (Mar 30, 2007)

> I would not suprise me with the life history of the frog that the froglets are more actively arboreal, and as breeding adults they get more aquatic. Due to the types of water bodies they seem to favor (still pools) it would make sense for the juveniles to spread out and disperse, looking for new pools, so they wouldn't be as aquatic.





> I would think juveniles could be more terrestrial.


Agreed. IME, the froglet's can't get far enough from the water and you can't keep the adults out of it.



> Anyone out there have any comments on this or some tank setup recommendations, I would appreaciate it.





> You can often have almost the entire bottom of the tank water if you've got enough decor above the water for them to hang out on, like driftwood and rocks.


Your current set up sound's fine for the froglet's but in the long run the description above is what your looking for to house them.

12/12 nothing special is what I use for lights. Mine are always active but more so at night.

Very cool about your success with the licin's Corey!

Jerry


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## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

Thanks for all of the input Kero, Jerry, & Spawn! Kero, I will try your idea with a non filtered water pool. That makes sense. So the bottom line is as froglets, they are more terrestrial & as frogs they are more aquatic. When they get to be adults, use the


> You can often have almost the entire bottom of the tank water if you've got enough decor above the water for them to hang out on, like driftwood and rocks.


 approach. How deep should the pool be ya think?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

About 4-6 inches for the adults. 2-3 inches sloped for the juvis.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Just make sure to remember to clean the pool out occassionally :lol: I do partial water changes rather than full ones, more like what they do in the wild... people tend to forget about cleaning the pools and the water gets nasty :shock: I've not changed the licin water for a bit, but that's partially because I have to keep adding water for evaporation, and the fact that all the tadpoles are getting to the frog poo before me and I have been afraid of sucking up some of the tads...


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## StevenBusch (May 19, 2007)

*Water temp*

What is the water temperature? Our small ones hangout often in the water.


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## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

Oh wow. The guy I got the mossys from is here!!! Thanks Aaron! The water temp has to be about room temp but I'll check it. I totally change the water every couple of days. It's easy for me because I have the tuppaware within the substrate so the lip of the tuppaware is flush with the top layer of substrate and it pulls right out. I'll tell ya one thing, I never realized how stupid crickets are. I keep having to save them from drowning, and then they go right back!


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## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

Are mossys tree frogs?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

They are often described as semi-aquatic treefrogs... but if you want to get really technical they are not taxonomically a true treefrog (Family Hylidae) but they are an arboreal(ish) frog with toepads from a Family of frogs (Rhacophoridae) that is the Asian/Oceanic parallel of the Latin American Hylids. It's really cool, both families have frogs that glide on foot webbing! Not the Thelos tho, they just kinda... sit there and look like moss (or poop, or bark... etc).

You might want to think about confining the crickets to a bowl by pinching their hopper legs so they can't use them if they get in the water and drown and the mossys don't eat them.


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## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

Update: I put a small tuppaware maybe 2" deep, 5" long and 4" wide. I haven't seen my mossy frogs in it and its been a couple of weeks now. They just stay stuck to the sides of the tank and when I turn off the light, they come alive and hangout on the plants or go to the floor to eat. What I find funny is when they are stuck on the sides, sometimes two will be on top of each other. I don't think they are gettin it on, and the temp is fine so I don't know. This is why I don't understand why it is said that light makes no difference to these mossy frogs. I mean, with the darts , from my experience, they do not respond to a light cycle. They act the same with the lights on or off. Although, I'm new to mossys so I don't know for sure yet. I never even had a tree frog before, I was always more into the darts.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Is it said that light in general isn't important, or that *special* lighting isn't needed? Mine get room light/rack light - enough to keep the plants in with them happy. They are more nocturnal than anything, but not strickly... at least one species of the genus calls just as much during the day as they do at night (but the majority of the activity and all breeding is done at night, and the tadpoles are primarily active at night as well). No special heating, no fancy UV, just regular old lighting to give them a day/night cycle and the plants from dying.

I think they are still young and in the dispersal stage. They'll go to the water when the time comes. When they are on the sides and seem like they are sitting on each other, its more likely they are finding the other frog a good comfy perch... they don't seem to do the prolonged amplexus like other species, and tend to stick to the water to do it. You'll notice the males calling (a nice little whistle) from the water well before this stuff would start going on, and the females will start going to the water too. They may be ignoring the water because its too small a container of water, but if you do notice them starting to hang out in it, you'll need to move them over to the water bottomed tank as they are likely looking for breeding spots, in which they will start to spend most of their time in the water.


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## AB (Aug 15, 2007)

Well its been a couple of months now. Hello all & happy holidays. A little update from my last post. I had one mossy out of 3 going into the water. He would stay under for hours and hours for a few months. I woke up one morning a week ago to find something went wrong. The filter was churning out this white foam and the water was filled with this stuff. I could not even see into the water. I freaked because I knew that one mossy was in there. I felt around and came across him. He was curled into a little ball totally unresponsive. I thought he was dead for sure. When you touch these things they jump, so for me to be holding it in my hand was not a good sign. Anyway, I rushed him to the sink and flushed him with water. Within 30 seconds of flushing, he came alive and jumped out of my hand. I put him back in the tank with the other 2 and he seems fine now and its been about a week. I put the water back without the filter but he hasn't gone in. The other 2 still don't go into the water.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

What your talking about is a defense response. They curl into a ball when disturbed if they aren`t diving down to the bottom. the rush of water got him out of that curled up response.


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## memnoch1970 (Apr 17, 2007)

uh you rinsed him in the sink with tap water???? that cant be good for him. :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## MCampbell (Feb 10, 2007)

I too have T. corticale Mossy Frogs. Mine are all subadults about a little over an inch and a quarter long. The younger frogs tend to be more terrestrial from what I've read and the adults seem to be fairly aquatic. I saw adults of both corticale and asperum at the Atlanta Botanical Gardens in their behind the scenes amphibian room. In both set ups the entire bottom of the tank was water with only pieces of cork bark and clay pots for haul out areas. They'd been having good luck breeding T. asperum and were sitting on some T. corticale eggs but hadn't actually bred them up to that point. Everything I've read and people I've talked to have indicated that clean cool running water is important to these frogs especially in terms of getting the adults to breed. In the wild these guys are found in and around the openings of water filled karst caves. They typically lay their eggs right at the waters edge on pieces of rock or sections of branch or cork bark.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

running water isn`t needed. mine breed in 4-5 inches of standing water.


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## Hayden (Feb 4, 2007)

Yep, mine laid 13 viable eggs a few days back for the first time. No running water either. Just about 5 inches of water and cork bark.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

My T. licins certainly didn't need moving water, and descriptions of Theloderma in the wild hadn't proven to me how running water would be needed... the water bodies often used by various species flooded on a regular basis during wet seasons especially, but were not actually moving water... taking advantage of bodies of water that weren't.

My Thelo set ups for adults have water with "islands" for them to pull out if they want, tho I likely won't have the same set up for juvies. Younger Theloderma seem to be as a rule more terrestrial as they disperse and seem to become "semi-aquatic" when they are sexually mature and find the pools where they will breed.


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