# Culture start-up questions



## stephen-mcginn (Sep 26, 2010)

I have a pair of clown tree frogs and hourglass tree frogs. I want to start culturing a couple small bugs such as springtails or fruitflies, something that would be good for a vertical cage. I have 2 current cultures that are together, a dubia/ dwarf cave roaches and mealworms. Need startup and maintenance help. What do you think i should culture and would be best for these 4 frogs?

Thanks,
Steve


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

While I have no experience with those frogs and cannot advise you the best foods to culture for them, here is my thread on culturing springtails and isopods. It should answer any questions about spring and iso culturing. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/66991-how-culture-isopods-woodlice-springtails.html


----------



## stephen-mcginn (Sep 26, 2010)

i read your thread earlier and i liked the ideas but i was looking for more ideas. No offense to you or your technique, i just like to go over all the possibilities before i make a decision. Thanks


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

stephen-mcginn said:


> i read your thread earlier and i liked the ideas but i was looking for more ideas. No offense to you or your technique, i just like to go over all the possibilities before i make a decision. Thanks


But of course, Stephen. No offense taken. My thread doesn't even touch upon your roaches or mealworms. Just tossing what I can into the pot. If I were to start culturing roaches, me and my frogs would all be living out in the ally! A good wife's support can only stretch so far.


----------



## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

For my springs i use a sweater box with 3 layers of corregated cardboard on the bottom and then cowboy brand charcoal then a couple layers of cardboard again. Then i feed yeast everyother day. Works great for me and they multiply like crazy


----------



## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Here's links to 2 blog posts where I show how I culture microfauna at home:

Josh’s Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » Microfauna, Part I
Josh’s Frogs How-To Guides » Blog Archive » Microfauna, Part II


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Keep in mind that if you are rearing springtails for the clown or hourglass treefrogs, they are too small for the frogs to feed on them. 

Ed


----------



## stephen-mcginn (Sep 26, 2010)

Ed said:


> Keep in mind that if you are rearing springtails for the clown or hourglass treefrogs, they are too small for the frogs to feed on them.
> 
> Ed



currently the hourglasses are 4 months old, about a 1/4 inch, they arent large enough to even eat 2.0 crickets or 1/4. the guy said he was feeding 8th inch crickets but they are hard to come by where i am at. The clowns i figured it would be a bonus on top of the crickets. 


Im trying to understand why you use charcoal instead of soaked coco fiber or peat moss.


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

stephen-mcginn said:


> currently the hourglasses are 4 months old, about a 1/4 inch, they arent large enough to even eat 2.0 crickets or 1/4. the guy said he was feeding 8th inch crickets but they are hard to come by where i am at. The clowns i figured it would be a bonus on top of the crickets.
> 
> 
> Im trying to understand why you use charcoal instead of soaked coco fiber or peat moss.


I've literally reared hundreds of hourglass treefrogs. Even right out of the water they are too large to take springtails. If you want a ready food for them, then I suggest looking at Drosophila melanogaster or D. hydei as a readily available food source. The same goes for the clowns, however the clowns get significantly larger than the hourglass and may outcompete them for food (I've worked with both species). As the hourglass get larger you can begin to feed them bean beetles. If you try to feed them on springtails be prepared for the frogs to starve or have impactions from consuming large amounts of substrate while attempting to capture the springtails. You can also order the appropriate sized crickets from a number of the sponsors as well as a number other sources. 

THe soaked peat moss/cocofiber reduces the ability to readily harvest the white springtails (Folosomia) but the soaked substrates also can go anaerobic which can cause problems with the cultures. It is also more difficult to harvest large numbers of springtails at one time as with the charcoal, you can flood the container and simply pour them out. 

Ed


----------



## stephen-mcginn (Sep 26, 2010)

I trust you alot more then the breeder that i spoke to, my issue is ordering online, I do work in the various reptile shows. so i probably could manage, but what are Drosophila melanogaster or D. hydei? in english haha. I read the mixed species thread and do you think the hour glasses and clowns be fine currently in an 18x18x24 cage that has been customized for darts. from what i have read the clowns and hourglasses are from close countries if not the same. And they are both in the amazonial area. This is from what i determined from the info i know.


----------



## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

The melano and hydei are 2 types of fruit flies. The melanogaster are smaller than hydei. Im not sure which is better for the type of frogs your working with.


----------



## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

stephen-mcginn said:


> I trust you alot more then the breeder that i spoke to, my issue is ordering online, I do work in the various reptile shows. so i probably could manage, but what are Drosophila melanogaster or D. hydei? in english haha. I read the mixed species thread and do you think the hour glasses and clowns be fine currently in an 18x18x24 cage that has been customized for darts. from what i have read the clowns and hourglasses are from close countries if not the same. And they are both in the amazonial area. This is from what i determined from the info i know.


Drosophila melanogaster or D. hydei are fruit flies and those names are plain English pretty much lol
Those are the two types used in this hobby 
D. Hydei are larger and take longer to develop.


----------



## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Drosophila melanogaster or D. hydei are fruit flies and those names are plain English pretty much lol
> Those are the two types used in this hobby


They are not the only types used in the hobby, don't forget Drosophila buzzatii.
And I'm pretty sure the names are Latin.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

In plain english, they are walks. After all, what do you call a fly that can't fly?


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> Drosophila melanogaster or D. hydei are fruit flies and those names are plain English pretty much lol
> Those are the two types used in this hobby
> D. Hydei are larger and take longer to develop.


The names are not English. As has been suggested to you before it would help if you would check the facts before you jumped in giving people advice. Those are the commonly used latin designations for the flies as per the rules of taxonomy (since D. melanogaster has now been assigned to a different genus namely *Sophophora *but I used the commonly accepted designation for the moment). 

In reality those are not the only two types used in the hobby. This is completely incorrect as 
1) there are many phenotypes of D. melanogaster that are used 
2) there are more than two species of flies cultures. As was noted above, there is also D. buzzatii and I believe some people are still culturing D. similans around. 
3) you left out pertinent details. 

With respect to answering the OP's original question correctly with the appropriate amount of detail, with respect to D. melanogaster, the reference is to a variety of stable genetic forms that are not able to flight, some of them can glide and you don't want to mix them together as that will often result in flighted flies and a lot of them wandering around the room. These types range from the popular "gliiders" aka "Turkish gliders" which are popular because of the large amount of production to "flightless/vestigial" flies which lack the wings, to some color variations like the "golden delicious" vestigial fruit fly. With respect to the hydei that are avialble, they do have wings but also do not fly (but can glide). The melanogaster have a much shorter life cycle while the hydei have a much longer lifecycle closer to 30 days. 

You can get culture kits from a number of the sponsors that include everything needed but many of us, also use recipes for the media (there are many threads on those). If you want to shoot me a pm so we can avoid vendor feedback, I'll happily point you towards some that should work well for you. Most of us culture our own flies as it is much less expensive than purchasing them everyweek or two and it gives you better controls over the food supply. There are a number of threads that discuss the ins and outs of this but your best success is going to be determined by trying to make sure to turn cultures over as close to 30 days as possible and to use mite paper to prevent mite outbreaks that negatively impact the cultures. 

Some comments,

Ed


----------



## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

fieldnstream said:


> They are not the only types used in the hobby, don't forget Drosophila buzzatii.
> And I'm pretty sure the names are Latin.


dont forget drosophila mulleri 

buzzattii and mulleri arent nearly as common though and only a handful of folks culture them.

james


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

james67 said:


> dont forget drosophila mulleri
> 
> buzzattii and mulleri arent nearly as common though and only a handful of folks culture them.
> 
> james


Thanks I had forgotten about that species. 

Ed


----------



## stephen-mcginn (Sep 26, 2010)

ok cool ill see what i can find at some reptile shows one is the 17th and the next is the whiteplains new york show the 8th of january, Hey thanks alot for pointing me in the right direction i will pm you if i have any further questions in culturing them.


----------



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here is a decent little thread on culturing flies. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/food-feeding/62277-guide-making-ff-cultures.html


----------

