# Has anyone ever fed Fly Eliminator Wasps to pdfs?



## ZeeMan (Sep 19, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

In my quest to provide a more varied diet for my pdfs, I remembered tiny tiny wasps I use to feed to my mantid nymphs that just hatched from oothecas.

Fly Parasites from ARBICO - Biological Fly Control for Horses and Livestock

I remember them being between 1/16in and 1/8 in.
They came in the packages seen on the website, and could be refrigerated until use (probably a shelf life though).

The wasps could be fed to newly morphed pdfs or thumbnails.
Since they hatch at room temperature...I would probably just put a cup on the bottom of the tank filled with parasitized fly pupae and the wasps would hatch from them and crawl up and out.

Potentially they could be emergency backup feeders, since they could be stored?

Does anyone have experience with these?
The only thing I am concerned about is the presence of venom in the stinger which might transfer to the frogs (as in the wild) and the frogs becoming 
toxic.

Thanks! Looking forward to see what ppl think about these wasps.
-Zee

PS...I don't ever remember being stung by them..don't know if they are stingerless or just innocuous.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I know some people have, (I haven't, though I have a few inquiries on here if you search) they are especially useful for tiny froglets (pumilio, retics, etc).


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## ZeeMan (Sep 19, 2008)

What key words should I search under?

Thanks!


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## xm41907 (Nov 26, 2007)

Parasitoid wasps wouldn't make a very good alternative food source to fruit flies, however I could seem be used in a pinch. The first and foremost problem with using them is that to be economical you would want to rear them yourself. To accomplish this you would first need to rear a host species. While there are some odd hosts, the majority are parsitoids of lepidopterans, larvae mainly but there are a few that parasitize the egg stage. Secondly the yield you would produce in relation to the number of leps is pretty low. If someone is ambitious and has the time/money then go for it. As for me it's just not worth the effort as a consistant food source. In contrast, parasitiod rearing is a lot of fun. I would suggest playing with them during spring and summer as an experiement and something fun to do. (PM me if you'd like more info on rearing them)

As for purchasing the wasps, again, it wouldn't be economical. They will have a shelf life, depending on the species and temp for which they are stored. If someones main food source were to crash, and they had a few oothecas in the frig, you could toss them in the viv. I wouldn't be concerned about bring stung, even though the females would have the ability to sting, parasitic wasps are not aggressive as yellowjackets and paper wasps. Someone with a better biochemistry background would have to answer about frog toxicity with parasitic wasps as a diet, but I would think that unless they were the main food source, it would be a negligible difference. 

James


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## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

I have heard of people using jewel wasps for pumilio young. DOnt know if these are parasitoids or not, but they work great.

Edited to add:
I guess they are parasites:
http://www.life.uiuc.edu/ib/109/Insect rearing/jewel wasp.html

But I know they DO work, they just don't have anything to ovaposit so you dont "culture" them. I think the person I know that uses them just gets cultures of them from a place that DOES culture them.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

We've used them before, and they do make a good supplemental feeder. They would not be feasible as a staple food unless you could rear them (and their host, the house fly), but they do hatch out quite small and are suitable for froglets.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

xm41907 said:


> Parasitoid wasps wouldn't make a very good alternative food source to fruit flies, however I could seem be used in a pinch. The first and foremost problem with using them is that to be economical you would want to rear them yourself. To accomplish this you would first need to rear a host species. While there are some odd hosts, the majority are parsitoids of lepidopterans, larvae mainly but there are a few that parasitize the egg stage. Secondly the yield you would produce in relation to the number of leps is pretty low. If someone is ambitious and has the time/money then go for it. As for me it's just not worth the effort as a consistant food source. In contrast, parasitiod rearing is a lot of fun. I would suggest playing with them during spring and summer as an experiement and something fun to do. (PM me if you'd like more info on rearing them)
> 
> As for purchasing the wasps, again, it wouldn't be economical. They will have a shelf life, depending on the species and temp for which they are stored. If someones main food source were to crash, and they had a few oothecas in the frig, you could toss them in the viv. I wouldn't be concerned about bring stung, even though the females would have the ability to sting, parasitic wasps are not aggressive as yellowjackets and paper wasps. Someone with a better biochemistry background would have to answer about frog toxicity with parasitic wasps as a diet, but I would think that unless they were the main food source, it would be a negligible difference.
> 
> James


On the contrary, it would be very economical if you had high buck froglets that needed ultra small food items for the first week or two. 
I do understand what you are saying though, and don't think anyone that has tried them has suggested that they would be good as a staple food item.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

ZeeMan said:


> What key words should I search under?
> 
> Thanks!


Parasitic wasps


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/search.php?searchid=106041


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

eds fly meat used to sell them, not sure if they still do, but they are more of a pain to culture then they are worth so they are not a good food source.


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## mtolypetsupply (Dec 18, 2008)

I know we order them for the horses, and you can get a "subscription" where they arrive monthly during the fly season. It's pretty economical, regarding fly control, but I don't know how great it is for PDF food. 

Google "parasitic wasps" or "natural fly control" and I'm sure you'll get some great sources. I'd bet that you can contact them about your specific application and get a supply year round, though, as people would who live in the southern states.


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