# Mitch's 20H Verts Build Journal



## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello!

Here's a journal I'll be keeping for the construction of my two 20H verts. All I have so far is the two tanks, which I purchased today at PetCo's $1 per gallon sale for $40. I also just ordered two 20H vertical conversion kits from Jungle Box Online - Frogs, Vivarium Supplies, Feeders and Tropical Plants. 

Here's a picture of the tanks:








(No, that's not the lighting I'll be using)

So far my plans are to do the typical Great Stuff background with various pieces of driftwood incorporated into it. I'm not planning on doing any water features, they seem pretty pointless to me...

Please feel free to post any comments, ideas, and suggestions... I'm open to anything .


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## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

You're doing great so far! Will these be your first frogs? Out of 8 frogs/4 species, my Leuc is my favorite. Props to Dane @ Junglebox, his stuff is legit and he is great to work with. 

My advice is, spend more now, buy quality, support the sponsors, = do it right the first time!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

chinoanoah said:


> You're doing great so far! Will these be your first frogs? Out of 8 frogs/4 species, my Leuc is my favorite. Props to Dane @ Junglebox, his stuff is legit and he is great to work with.
> 
> My advice is, spend more now, buy quality, support the sponsors, = do it right the first time!


Thanks! I have a 15g viv set up for Leucs already, they'll be my first frogs. I also wanted to get some other species, probably thumbs, so this is what these verts are for. Also I'm going to take this build nice and slow and do everything as perfect as I can... I've definitely learned from the mistakes I made with my 15g build. I try to use our sponsors as much as possible, heck I've only bought from our sponsors so far .


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

Very cool Mitch. It looks like you are doing almost exactly what I have planned. Are the two vivs going to stay side by side? I am going to do 2 20g high vivs side by side with the landscaping looking like it is going through both tanks.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Vermfly said:


> Very cool Mitch. It looks like you are doing almost exactly what I have planned. Are the two vivs going to stay side by side? I am going to do 2 20g high vivs side by side with the landscaping looking like it is going through both tanks.


Yea, I'll be keeping them side by side. I was thinking of doing the landscaping looking like it is going through both tanks, that definitely could be cool.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Alright so here's my first two questions. What type of soil is best to use in the little pots that are stuck into the GS background? Also, for drainage in these pots, could I drill a hole in the bottom of the pot, stick some tubing in, and channel it downwards and out of the background? Does this seem like a good idea?


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

I have some of those in my GS wall. I used the net pots that they use for growing things hydroponically. Here's a link. These already have the holes in them. I think it is fine to make a small hole in the GS to allow it to drain. http://www.hydroponics.net/c/166


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Alright, thanks. Anyone have any idea's on the soil in the GS'ed pots? Should I just be using the regular ABG mix I have right now? Another question, how necessary is it to cover the back of the tank with silicone before putting on the GS? I didn't do this for my 15g and it seems to be holding up just fine.


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

I did put the black silicone on the back before I did the GS. Having it look black stops the GS foam from showing through. It looks better that way to me.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

It seems like it would be easier just to paint the back after I'm done. Is there any other advantage besides looks?


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## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

Painting is cheaper. Other advantages? nope.


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## Arizona Tropicals (Feb 15, 2010)

Mitch said:


> It seems like it would be easier just to paint the back after I'm done. Is there any other advantage besides looks?


Some say it helps the GS adhere to the back of the tank better, however I have not had any issues.


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## johnnygecko (Apr 11, 2010)

I used the black GS for ponds on my 29gal vertical. There was no need to paint or hide it when I was finished.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Just picked up a lot of stuff 

-5 cans of great stuff
-3 tubes of GE II 100% silicone (brown)
-A brick of compressed coco fiber
-24" of 1/2 inch PVC tubing with end caps (for drainage)
-3 oz. tube of aquarium silicone 
-4 pcs. of Mopani wood ($70)- Why is this stuff so expensive? I can't seem to find it for cheap anywhere...
-120 sq. ft. of weed block (for substrate divide)...this was the smallest size they had. Wasn't too expensive though.

Anyways, here are some pictures of everything:









Supplies









Larger pieces of Mopani









Smaller pieces of Mopani

I'm hoping to get started on construction this weekend. I thought I was taking this project slow but it's funny how it always comes together really quickly .


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

And two quick questions...
-When drying the coco fiber in the oven after soaking it, what temp. should I use and how long should I put it in there for?
-After GS'ing how long do I need to wait before Silicone/Coco Fiber? I only waited 24 hrs. last time and it was fine but I hear some talk about waiting a week in case it shrinks?


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

I prefer ghostwood over the mopani. I think it looks better and you can get it a lot cheaper. I got mine at this website. Natural Ghostwood Branches Sanded 16- 22" $16.99


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

The thing is I like to purchase my driftwood in person so I know what I'm really getting. Online its just a crapshoot... Thanks for the link though!


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## Vermfly (Jun 6, 2010)

Check them out. You could probably place your order over the phone and ask for specific things. The customer service I received from them was great.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Today I dried a bunch of coco fiber in the oven, baked the driftwood to sterilize it, and built the drainage for the pots that will be in the background - All I did was take eight 2.5" Terra Cotta pots, widened the drainage holes so the tubing would fit through, cut the tubing, and siliconed around it to prevent leaks. It was pretty easy and will provide the necessary drainage for these pots that wouldn't get it otherwise.

Pictures:



























I will begin Great Stuffing tomorrow...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Also I tested out the cheap home depot weed block and realized that water barely penetrates it, there aren't any visible holes in it. I have no clue why the packaging says that water can penetrate, the stuff just looks like black paper to me... So now I have 120 sq. ft. of weed block I can't use for anything. I guess I'll have to buy some substrate divider online.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Isn't 5 cans of great stuff a little much? I have a 20 vert and only bought one can...


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Well 1+ cans for this tank. Then he has some ready for the next tanks. It's good to be prepared. There is never just 1 tank


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

frogface said:


> Well 1+ cans for this tank. Then he has some ready for the next tanks. It's good to be prepared. There is never just 1 tank


Yup


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## andyrawrs (Aug 16, 2008)

Mitch said:


> Also I tested out the cheap home depot weed block and realized that water barely penetrates it, there aren't any visible holes in it. I have no clue why the packaging says that water can penetrate, the stuff just looks like black paper to me... So now I have 120 sq. ft. of weed block I can't use for anything. I guess I'll have to buy some substrate divider online.


I have always used door/window screen insect netting replacement with good success. Also available at HD and it was like $5 for a 20 foot roll or something.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Alright, I'll definitely check that out.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Just finished Great Stuffing on the backs of the tanks . This is a little hard to explain so here are pictures:









I still need to Great Stuff the left side and I have another piece of wood that will fit in the top corner. I also need to put some pots in there for plants. Then I'll carve it all out and silicone/coco fiber when it's ready.









I still need to great Stuff the right side more on this tank and put some more pots in there for plants. Then I'll carve it all out and silicone/coco fiber when it's ready. The branch that is horizontal in there is not in the background, but in front of it... kinda hard to tell from this picture.

I should be done with all the Great Stuff today and I'll move on to the carving/silicone/coco fiber tomorrow.


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## Frank H (Nov 3, 2005)

Cool! coming together nicely. That driftwood looks awesome! I like the top one where it looks like its going to hang down into the substrate. 


In my experience, I have found that I need more silicone that great stuff. I like to put it on thick so it gets a good hold of the coco fiber. I imagine you'll need another 3 tubes.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Yea I probably will, home depot isn't too far though. I was thinking maybe because I have the driftwood there I won't need to silicone/coco fiber in as many places.


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## Brien (Aug 27, 2009)

lol Noah your funny


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Updated pictures:









This tank has been carved and is ready for silicone/coco fiber.









Looking up from the bottom









This tank still needs the pots to be great stuffed in place, I realized this after finishing carving it . I also need to sand the great stuff off the wood in the corner.









Different view

I'm hoping to be done with the backgrounds by tomorrow


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Today I was only able to do 3/4 of one tank with the silicone/coco fiber... I'm hoping to get the rest done tomorrow and possibly finish with the other tank too. I'll post pictures when they're finished.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Mmm, beautiful woodowork. How do you get the pots to stay up at those angles while the GS is curing though?


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Let it the great stuff dry and carve out an area that will support them, then great stuff around them.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Ooooooh, I thought you great stuffed them in just like the driftwood....


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Today I finished with the Silicone/Coco fiber. Now I'm going to start with the drainage tubes and painting the tanks black where the Great Stuff shows through. I'll post some pictures later.


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

I'm intersted in how your drainage is going to turn out. I haven't thought that far in my build yet. Looks amazing so far btw...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Here are the pictures:



























Painting the areas where the Great Stuff shows through









Here's my poor man's drainage, it's just 6.5" of 1/2" PVC tubing with a bunch of holes drilled to the bottom. I then messily siliconed it to the bottom. When this dries I'll do the silicone/coco fiber to make it less noticeable. 

I also bought Insect screening at home depot to use as a substrate divider, it seems like the exact stuff black jungle sells.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I realized that the silicone I used for the drainage tubes is not holding the tubing in place very well, so I took it off and I am going to use aquarium silicone this time. I just need a layer or two of paint and a good cleaning now, then these tanks will be back on the stand again and ready for substrate and plants.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Finished....








Both tanks



























Drainage tube


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## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

These are looking great! Did you drill these yourself?


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks! They're not drilled though.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Well today I received my two jungle box conversion kits... Here's what I got:
-Two screens 
-Two doors (shattered)
-Two bottoms

I emailed asking them to replace the shattered pieces. Well see how this goes .


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Mine came shattered too


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> Mine came shattered too


My packaging wasn't too great, it was just some styrofoam surrounding the glass panes. I think some packing peanuts in there would do the trick. Was yours packaged the same?


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Mitch said:


> My packaging wasn't too great, it was just some styrofoam surrounding the glass panes. I think some packing peanuts in there would do the trick. Was yours packaged the same?


Exactly the same. IMO it would be fine if it didn't look like it got thrown around by some bone-heads during shipping...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Wallace Grover said:


> Exactly the same. IMO it would be fine if it didn't look like it got thrown around by some bone-heads during shipping...


Yea probably.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Update:
I just ordered a bunch of stuff...

1 x Jumbo 32 oz Temperate Springtail (Colombella) Culture 
5 x White Film Cannister w/ suction cup 
5 x Black Film Cannister w/ suction cup 
1 x Hydroton 25L (8/16 mm) 
1 x ABG mix (8 quart) 
1 x ABG mix (4 quart) 
2 x Acrylic Knob 

(All from Josh's frogs)

andddd
1 x Sunleaves Pioneer IV Jr
-23 3 /16” x 15” x 2 1/4"
-Holds 4 T5 bulbs

(From a hydroponics store in California)

I love my Sunleaves Pioneer II thats on my 15, so why not get the larger one for both 20H verts? This light gets pretty hot so i'll place it across both vivs and elevate it with 1" pieces of PVC tubing and place a computer fan behind it. Hopefully that'll do the trick. 

I'm still waiting on those glass doors from Jungle Box, hopefully they will come soon . That's all for now!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

I got my Josh's frogs order in today and set that stuff up. The lighting and the door should be here on tuesday. After I get those I'll work on plants. The lighting for these pictures is just an old 1 bulb CFL fixture, not exactly the 4x T5's I'll be using .

Pictures:








Full tank shot









Leaf litter view









Full tank shot









Leaf litter view









Leaf litter view 2


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Wow that looks great!


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## Wallace Grover (Dec 6, 2009)

Mmm, mmm. I like your positioning of pots...


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks guys!


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Just got ordered the rest of the plants from neherpetocluture:

-Ficus Pumila "Creeping Fig" - Ten clippings
-Misc. Fern
-Some more moss

Now that construction is complete I'll make a new thread in the members vivarium forum once I get the plants in.


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## blue02celi (Nov 12, 2010)

tanks look awesome!

so I know you said you were making new thread for the vivariums, but I had a question about the build. after you have everthing set up, minus the plants, what are the plastic tubes you have around the tank for? and you said you put drains on each tank, but they aren't drilled?


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

blue02celi said:


> tanks look awesome!
> 
> so I know you said you were making new thread for the vivariums, but I had a question about the build. after you have everthing set up, minus the plants, what are the plastic tubes you have around the tank for? and you said you put drains on each tank, but they aren't drilled?


The plastic tubes are used for drainage for the pots in the background. This way they won't get filled with water with no way to drain them. Check out the picture of the pots on one of the pages to see what I'm talking about. 

As for the drainage without being drilled, I simply took a piece of 1/2" PVC, cut it to 6", drilled small holes at one end of the tube, added a cap to the other end, and then siliconed/coco fibered the entire thing. After that I used aquarium silicone to silicone it to the bottom of the tank, with the end of the tube with the holes on the bottom. That way when the water in the drainage layer gets too high I can pull the cap off, stick aquarium tubing in, and drain the water out without disturbing anything in the tank. 

Hope that made sense.


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