# The Most Underappreciated Frogs



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Anyone who has been in this hobby for a reasonable amount of time is aware of the swings in popularity of different frogs and species (the Thumbnail Craze, the Pumilio Craze, etc.)...and the subsequent swings in *un*popularity in other frogs and species. Some of these swings in unpopularity and underappreciation have lead to the near loss of (well, in some cases, the complete loss of) some frogs from the captive hobby. 

In light of this, I thought it would be worth starting a discussion/list regarding those frogs folks feel are some of the most underappreciated in the hobby...some perhaps dangerously so (I expect to hear from some of you grizzled vets on this one).

I'll kick it off with:

_Phyllobates vittatus_
_Epipedobates anthonyi _and _tricolor_


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

There's an article on this in the care sheet forum. I haven't been around long enough to observe this, but I've seen it happen in other hobbies.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Tinc group frogs have become very underappreciated these days-- so many people are willing to sell them off. But I've been seeing a renaissance of auratus appreciation lately.

Phyllobates terribilis have really increased in popularity now that orange and yellow terribilis are established.

I wouldn't say that about E. anthonyi and tricolor right now. Moraspunga tricolors are sold within a day, and salvias don't last long either. They've really become popular again, but I think the main focus right now is on pumilio. Amereega has stolen the spotlight from many thumbnails these days. 

Mantellas have always been underappreciated. But with the hard work of some breeders to produce the other species besides aurantiaca have made mantellas more talked about compared to what it was a few years ago-- which is a good thing. So, perhaps they will receive a boom too. 

I think most are shied away from mantellas because most like it cool and are difficult to breed.

The moral of the story is-- hold on to what you have what you cherish the most, even if it's not popular right now. Look what we learned when lehmanni, histos, BJ pumilio, and Mantella cowani were sold for a measily $30 or less.

I once looked in a book from the 1970s, and A. zeteki were kept in captivity. Someone reported that A. peruensis was kept in captivity a decade ago.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

For the most part, it appears that the frogs most subject to popularity swings are the ones that are most prolific.
For example:
Most phyllobates species
D. auratus
A couple that seem to be going through a swing at the present:
Nominat imitator
Green leg lamasi

When I first got into the hobby, I wanted D. imitator the most of any, and they were hard to come by, a big breeder had a wait list for them nearly a year long, and after 6 months of searching, managed to find 2 beutiful males at the tune of $100 each!
Shortly after, I got some mint terrebilis, at the tune of 30 each.
One year or so later, imitator were more readily available, for around 65-75 each, and mint terrebillis were so common that they would hardly sell, and some people decided to sell off their breeding pairs.
More recently, mints all of the sudden became fairly hard to come by, and from what I've seen, they are going for around $70 each, give or take.
Meanwhile, the imitator are getting hard to sell...I have a dozen or so that have been to two frog shows now...
The panamanian bronze auratus are really beutiful and under-appreciated because they are so common...too bad, they are a gorgeous, large, bold frog.
Just some for instances I can think of off the top of my head.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

Galacs! I still don't get why more people don't breed these guys.
and mantellas. Maybe people are scared off because there are not many captive bred animals, but they are really cool frogs. As far as the temp thing, I keep mine in the same room as my darts and both species are fine, mantellas do great with temps in the low seventies, much like darts. I think their dependancy on cooler temps has been exagerated a little.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

otis07 said:


> Galacs! I still don't get why more people don't breed these guys.
> and mantellas. Maybe people are scared off because there are not many captive bred animals, but they are really cool frogs. As far as the temp thing, I keep mine in the same room as my darts and both species are fine, mantellas do great with temps in the low seventies, much like darts. I think their dependancy on cooler temps has been exagerated a little.


I think not many people breed galacs because not many people can...I know at least three people that would love to get their hands on some red galacts. I know a popular breeder is just now getting around to filling orders that have been on a wait list for them since last January.

As for the mantella's I somewhat agree that their need for low temps has been exaggerated.
My first exotic frogs are/were mantella aurantiaca, which I raised from tads I purchased.
These have been through some scary high temps (low 90's when my ac took a dump when I was gone for a weekend), and seem to be doing just fine...though I have never got any good eggs from them.


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

I always thought that D. Truncatus where very underappreciated especially the blue/green morph. I wish more people bred them, I would love to have some.

I just had to add a pic because they are so much nicer than the yellow morph


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

Retics. They seem to be somewhat difficult to find. I only saw my first ones a month ago!


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## Kevin1234 (Oct 12, 2008)

Epipedobates trivittatus seem to never get appreciated. In fact I rarely see them for sale or hear anything about them. There isn't much info on them but they are suppose to be big and very hardy, just a little shy. 

Im in the process of purchasing a pair to try since not many people have these guys.


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

MonarchzMan said:


> Retics. They seem to be somewhat difficult to find. I only saw my first ones a month ago!


I think this is mostly becuase their froglets can be rather difficult to raise. It seems people have them, but just don't sucessfully breed them. 

Brain- good point, it does seem like there is a demand for them, but that demand just isn't being met.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

otis07 said:


> I think this is mostly becuase their froglets can be rather difficult to raise. It seems people have them, but just don't sucessfully breed them.
> 
> Brain- good point, it does seem like there is a demand for them, but that demand just isn't being met.


That might be true, but they can't be any more difficult than Escudos, and Escudos are relatively common as far as pumilio morphs are concerned.


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## vivariman (Sep 26, 2007)

I second the truncs, I rarely see them for sale on the boards and they aren't talked about that much. You can find them for sale on websites and such but it seems that most small scale froggers don't work with them. (I am talking about the blue/greens and *also* the standard yellows)

-Caden


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

As someone mentioned, I guess the remedy would be to stess enjoyment and not capitals. There is a certain joy in owning a coveted animal though...


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## porkchop (Aug 29, 2005)

Great topic...
I got into the hobbie when Vittatus were flooding the market and Standard Imi's were $90, I know red galacts were a dime a dozen at one time, then the hype was over, and now we have to wait months for them. I agree with brian, the more prolific they are, they seem to be less desirable, Because everyone has? them or because they are more common? i keep a couple species of just males or females just for the reason of "I really enjoy the frog", but dont need to be innandated with a ton of frogs. I hate keepin just one sex of species, "I wouldnt wanna be stranded on a desert Isle with the same sex" But i keep frogs that i enjoy and for that purpose.


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## t-o-l-o (Oct 21, 2008)

AlexRible said:


> I always thought that D. Truncatus where very underappreciated especially the blue/green morph. I wish more people bred them, I would love to have some.
> 
> I just had to add a pic because they are so much nicer than the yellow morph


That sure is a nice looking frog! Does anyone here have any?


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## AlexRible (Oct 16, 2007)

^^ they don't breed very well and few people still have them


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Some of the tinctorius morphs have also virtually disappeared in recent years.. there used to be a time when patricias and others were everywhere. At this time, it looks like the azureus morph of tinctorius is hitting the skids as well. 

Ed


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Ed,

A few of us are keeping the tinctorius torch alive  I would agree that they are truly underappreciated at this point in time.

Bill


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

I think every frog will have a time when it is under appreciated due to the nature of humanity.


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## sounddrive (Jan 4, 2007)

Corpus Callosum said:


> I think every frog will have a time when it is under appreciated due to the nature of humanity.


very well stated, its amazing how the popularity of anything depends what the right people want at the right time.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

elmoisfive said:


> Ed,
> 
> A few of us are keeping the tinctorius torch alive  I would agree that they are truly underappreciated at this point in time.
> 
> Bill


Hi Bill, 
I know.. at some point I need to pair up the FG dwarf tinct I have so I can do my part. 

Ed


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

You'll have to let me know what sex you need and I'll hook you up the next time we are at a show together.

For the record, I'm currently keeping the following tincs:

Azureus*, Patricia*, Citronella*, Olemarie, FG Dwarf Cobalt*, Powder Blue*, Surinam Cobalt*, Yellowback, Inferalanis* and New River*

* = breeding or bred in past

I love tincs and I have to give credit to the ladies at Quality Captives for 1) providing me many of these guys and 2) teaching me the value of 'loving' the more common dart frogs. 

Personally I think that tincs are awesome, very bold and striking. When people who aren't dart frog keepers see our frogs, they always point out the big bold frogs (tincs) as the ones they think are the most interesting.

Bill


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Yeah I too am a big fan of the tinc group! If I show someone a pumillio they are like "what's that?". Show them an azureus or cobalt and they are like "hey it's one of those poison frogs right? Won't they kill you?". . .haha! Love these guys!


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Its a very interesting topic. Some of the ones I think are interesting are:
Tricolors - great frogs
Tincs - as already stated though my luck with them is very poor
Bicolors - great bold frog
Pumilio various morphs - Id still like to hear some stories of successful F2 or higher breeding

Ive been pondering a minor expansion in the frog room to move some things to larger tanks with the focus being tincs.


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## batrachiophyle (May 7, 2009)

...an old thread.. yes... but, nonetheless, an important topic, and something i was just thinking about recently... 

the following species are ones which i feel are rather under-appreciated, as well as being species that i'm rather smitten with:

1.) _D. auratus_
2.) _D. tinctorius_
3.) _D. truncatus_

[and just for some variation, and because i think it's certainly worth mentioning... a native hylid that i think gets overlooked, seen as generic, or even outright uninteresting is _Hyla versicolor / Hyla chryoscelis complex_..  these are some of my favorite frogs period! very hardy, truly beautiful calls, amazing cryptic camouflage, and brilliant flash coloration!! ...love that species complex to death!]


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I'd say the one that's on the lowest swing of all right now is the frog that I'm getting soon, Cryptophyllobates/Hyxolus azureiventris. They go for a straight $25 now, and it's likely that one of the bloodlines has been lost forever. However, people are starting to buy them, so it looks like they're picking up.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

Corpus Callosum said:


> I think every frog will have a time when it is under appreciated due to the nature of humanity.


Quoted for truth! 

To add to the discussion at hand:

H. azureiventris
P. vittatus
P. bicolor
D. truncatus

Too many of the tinc morphs are on the skids.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

In the Mid Atlantic area....especially Balt, Philly, Jersey ect...


I would say that Thumbnails have overtaken _Pumilio _in demand and popularity.

USA wide.....I would say _D. Auratus_ has _always_ be underappreciated.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

Philsuma said:


> USA wide.....I would say _D. Auratus_ has _always_ be underappreciated.


And yet, *the* quintessential dart frog. Immediately recognizeable, social and easy to maintain in captivity.


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## andy321 (Jun 12, 2008)

IMO all auratus are underappreciated but especially the blue and black morph I hardly ever see any thing about them even though they are great frogs just a little shy.


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## NathanB (Jan 21, 2008)

Allobates, zaparo are still my favorite frog


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## Chris Miller (Apr 20, 2009)

Phyllobates other than terribilis. Especially aurotaenia. I sure Ron would re-vote for vittatus and since I'm from Chicago, that's fine by me.


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## Chicago Frog Man (Mar 5, 2009)

I love the galacts, splashbacks. How many larger Red frogs do you see? The orange and yellows are nice too. Looking for some if anyone has any! 

Matecho are super cool looking, just got some and they are incredibly active and climb all the time, wish there was more info on them out there. 

Mantellas, they scare me a little with the temp requirements, winter is fine here in Chicago, but the summers can be in the 90's and I worry about power failures, etc. We've had some brutal summer storms. Would love to get some, I only own tincs at this time. 

Hopefully more people will own these great frogs and there will be more experiences and information on them in the future. Still looking for galacts!


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## vugger#1 (Jul 20, 2009)

I'm with Chris on this one, P. Aurotaenia seem underappreciated. And I am not just saying that because I have a bunch, but because they are so bold, can kep in groups, have a great loud call and just fun to watch. They use the whole Viv.

One day last week I was feeding the adults and a FF landed on my knuckle and one of the frogs jumped right on my hand to eat it. (Scared the CWAP out of me)  Very bold!!!!


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

I would have to say standard vents. I know you can get them for next to nothing but they are great in groups. Have a nice call and are easy to breed.
J


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

i notice no one mentioned quinquevittatus..why?


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## Kgbower (Jul 9, 2009)

I have to say p. Vittatus are one of the great frogs out there that get swept under the rug. They were/are my first frogs and are still my favorite. I have heard that they can be shy, however mine are very social and love to show off when people are around!


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

andy321 said:


> IMO all auratus are underappreciated but especially the blue and black morph I hardly ever see any thing about them even though they are great frogs just a little shy.


i personally think its the standard green and black auratus that have lost popularity since the b/g and bronze have become just as cheap. the green and black used to be EVERYWHERE!



bussardnr said:


> Allobates, zaparo are still my favorite frog


anyone working with these please shoot me a PM a im quite interested in these, as well as mimics.



Chicago Frog Man said:


> Matecho are super cool looking, just got some and they are incredibly active and climb all the time, wish there was more info on them out there.


are your matecho young? tincs tend to be climbers when they are young but it seems to slowly fade away with age. (thats not to say they dont still climb, just not like a juvi)

james


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

> Mantellas, they scare me a little with the temp requirements, winter is fine here in Chicago, but the summers can be in the 90's and I worry about power failures, etc. We've had some brutal summer storms. Would love to get some, I only own tincs at this time.
> 
> Hopefully more people will own these great frogs and there will be more experiences and information on them in the future. Still looking for galacts!


Mantellas are very underappreciated.

And there is misinformation circulating that all mantellas are sensitive to temperature.

Lowlanders like expectata, blushings, and ebenaui can tolerate warmer temperatures than many dart frogs can be exposed to for short periods of time.


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

Aurotaenia said:


> I sure Ron would re-vote for vittatus and since I'm from Chicago, that's fine by me.


I would...and a year later, still am.


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## cheezus_2007 (Aug 20, 2009)

its kinda funny but my favorite ones are the underappreciated ones haha. I love the Auratus... and i feel the basic imitators arn't too often looked upon.. like the tarapoto? maybe thats just me but for thumbs i feel they arn't too looked upon... they are my favs!.... but anyways i think everyone should appreciate everything thats coming from our earth.... i dont feel that just cause something is "in" we should jack the prices of them up to high heaven.... but thats how everything is anymore i guess.... its just kinda sad.......Frogs are going to be vanished from the world in the wild i feel before we know it i feel so i think we should treat everyone of them as if they were "IN" or w.e..... but honestly i was never one of those "clicky" kids at school hahaha.


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## nathan (Jul 24, 2009)

I would say some of my favorites are on this list. I have a bunch that people mentioned as well as plans on gettins others in the near future. . .

I would say azureus definitly too. I remember growing up and seeing one at the zoo and the guy there told me how rare they were in the wild and how they come from only one tiny spot in the rainforest. And how wild populations were declining due to infections and they were trying to save them. His eyes lit up when h was talking about them. They were my first PDF and I love them!


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## rpmurphey (Mar 9, 2009)

I would have to agree with most people when they say that auratus are underappreciated especially the campana morph, love these guys.

As well with the Phylobates


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