# 29G build for D.Tinc Bakhuis pair.



## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

So I'm starting the build!!!

I'm posting a picture... Its likely to be a corner tank but it might end up being a front view only (that's a little flexible)

Let me know what everyone things about the layout for terrestrial frogs. if it will lend well to planting and everything else.

The pink tree will soon me a custom made buttress background.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Alright here's the pic.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Small update: 
I've done a few small things. 
- I've decided to lower my false bottom to about an inch and a half. I'm planning on using terracotta pots the tiny ones to support the back.

-i've started to great stuff my tree roots and carve it.









- I'm working on a sorta plant shelf to go on the side of the tank across from the roots.

Let me know what you think.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

Looks like a good start, I like the layout. How do you plan on covering the tree after you carve the GS to make it look realistic? Paint or clay or something else? I've tried fake trees a couple of times and they were decent but nothing amazing so I will look forward to updates to see how this progresses.
Bryan


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks for the reply. 

I'm thinking of using cement with acrylic fortifer, no water. Since I used that for a previous build. (I feel it reduced the major pH upping that cement with water causes) I have some left over. With cement dye. Them paint in some details and seal it up with the acrylic fortifier.


Any suggestions with that method?

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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Some new carving done now time for more HS.








Should I thin that middle root some more?

Plant shelf or tadpole well?
Will be done in cocofiber


















So I'm thinking i'm leaving a quarter inch strip of the back open and meshed. Is that too much? Too little? Bad idea? 



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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

A whole bunch of stuff came in yesterday from josh's frogs now my build can really get moving. I'll be working all day on it! 

I have to say that when opening the package it was one of those feel good make me happy sort of feelings to find a simple "happy new year!" note included in there.

sent from my Incredible...mind


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

I wish I could delete my previous posts. I've been really terrible at updating this in any coherent manner. So here is the sum of it up until this point.

The Christmas Holiday weekend I'd been all antsy. Having to do the family shuffle, visiting 5 different locations. Even though I got a pretty decent haul( got a kindle! and the first book I bought was a frog book), I'd been itching to get home. Because that Monday, Petco started the Dollar Gallon sale! 

I'd been waiting for this for weeks! I had even started to work on the vine groupings and the framework for the tree focal point.










Monday afternoon, we finally loaded up the Christmas haul and the 2 dogs and headed back home. What was supposed to be a 2 hour drive, was much closer to a 3 hour drive because everyone seemed to have found their brakes for Christmas and were testing them out randomly the ENTIRE trip! Think from 80mph-50mph(or less) for NO reason what so ever... really none, not an accident, not a flat tire, nothing!!!

Either way we arrived around 6 o'clock and we unloaded the dogs & haul in 15 mins so I could hop right back into the car and go to petco for my brand new 29G tank! (When it comes to my hobbies I have a very one track mind!) I purchased my tank and a small cork round to accent my build and headed across the parking lot to Home Depot, who must have had the slowest day ever. Everyone was so helpful (which is semi unusual).

One guy cut the PVC pipe in to 3 inch lengths. Another guy really nice was trying to help me hunt down the black pond GS and either black or brown GE silicone I. Neither searches were fruitful. But I did meet someone who wants to join our addiction!  

So I left there with a smile on my face and most of the supplies I need to do my build (stuff I didn't already have)

Came home and assembled a rough of my set up.
I Clipped the egg crate and laid out the PVC then Played with a few orientations of the extra materials I have that I can use in the build. and came up with this!


















After doing that I took my tree skeleton into the garage and cracked open a brand new can of the Red Great Stuff. and sprayed my tree all up. Unfortunantly I forgot the Greatstuff isn't very sturdy when wet, and I left the tree standing up after spraying. Only to find that the whole section on the trunk had slumped off into a big messy puddle. *sigh* leaving the trunk pretty exposed.










but I began carving then carved some more


















Yesterday my order from Josh's came in after 7 loooong days (free shipping ) I was waiting on my coco fiber to arrive amongst the rest of my order... and realised I ordered coco husk  I guess I'll have to make it work?

Then finally, today, I'm ready to start moving forward with all of this nonsense (you should see the state of the house! Foam bits everywhere branches, eggcrate x-acto knives gloves etc all over the place!)

I read that using egg crate in the bg will help the GS ad hear better. That's a great Idea since I would love to carve, paint, silicon and apply coco fiber(husk) background outside of the aquarium!

So I take 2 pieces of left over Egg crate. hot glue and zip tie them together. I know hot glue does not hold well in moisture(or at least submerged). Its just for holding it straight and it will be supported.


















after doing that I placed the sheet and the tree in the tank and glued some spots to hold it in place to make sure I could take it out and put it in with relatively little fuss. i trimmed the root on the left because it was going to cause problems.










Took it out and reinforced with some more hot glue (just pinning it together). Its going to be silicon-ed eventually.

Thennnnn I cut pockets for the roots glued them in and then checked again just for safe measure.


















while it was in there I made final decisions on how I was going to put things in there and clipped an opening in the egg crate to be able to silicon the branch in there. My initial plan for that was to have to use more Great Stuff after I silicone everything in but I realized... maybe I don't need to. Could I just stuff whatever hole with moss? Its not going to have any gaps that I foresee.










Also in this picture you can see that I screened & lowered my false bottom. the front and the center are a T-section of egg crate tha support it. the ends will be supported by small terracotta pots. 1.5"? I'm probably going to use some level of support for the center section that I haven't decided on yet. in the image I have some pipes but they aren't tall enough to offer any support.










Any how after tacking it to the egg crate i took it out to the garage and set it on top of these acrylic sheets I had lying around. I'm hoping it will do 2 things. 1 it will keep the GS flat on the back and 2 I hope that it will come off easily from the acrylic. and sprayed it up!



















and now I'm sitting in my living room typing this up waiting for the GS to cure and trying to figure out the correct way to 'sterilize' the branch I'm using since it used to be used in my salamander tank.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Lighting question. I'm planning on using a 2ft T8 zoo med flora bulb. Because that's what I have. 

Will this be enough light?


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## gardennub (Dec 10, 2011)

I think it will come off easily once the gs is cured. Im curious to hear HOW easily.
Not too sure about the lights sorry.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

@gardennub - :/ Well I'm going to guess you meant the acrylic coming off... it was actually super easy! But the downside was that it did cause the gs not to fully cure on the "inside" so I have some goofy caves but it should be ok.


On a different note, I have an update!!!!

After letting the GS cure for a few days since it does change what it's doing in more than just 24 hrs. I started carving up my tree some more. I discovered I really do not like the GS in the blue can! for starters it's an especially ugly shade of yellow and really really soft spongyness compared to the red can which is a much more bearable shade of beige or off white and produces a much firmer and easy to carve foam. From my expediences the Red can also has a much more uniform foam without huge holes/bubbles that I found much more prominent in the Blue can.

moving on. I carved up my Tree after it had been cured and let it sit for a few hours in case I had hit some uncured spots in my carving... Something I've learned to do from past experience.











After a few hours of sitting I set up camp in the dining room (garage is freezing!) Tarp, towel and cut open trash bag as my protective layers to the ground. I then gathered my supplies








in addition to that I'm also using the bottom of a 2 liter as my mixing bowl. and a 1 inch paintbrush.


I first mixed a really soupy mix of cement and fortifier I have not used any water in the and brushed it on most of the tree this covered and filled in most of those tiny holes you can do nothing about. I then mixed a much more pasty batch and filled in bigger holes and smoothed really sharp bumpy spots. I then let it dry for a day. I spritzed it once with water after it was mostly dry to help avoid too much cracking.











after letting it sit for almost 22 hours or so I started my second coat.

this time I mixed a very thick, almost mold-able, mousse like batch and roughed out the viney texture on the trunk using a plastic knife. I let that dry out a little while I went through and filled out all sorts of nooks and crannies that I just wasn't feeling. After using that batch of cement, I then mixed a pretty watery batch that I then used with the paintbrush to smooth out the viney shapes and blend them in and also started working on getting rid of those sharp lips that happen when you don't fully smooth out cement. I then mixed different consistencies of cement to do what I needed to do and ended with a soupy batch to smooth everything out. I made sure to pay attention to the direction of the brush stroke as it does leave marks.

and this is where I'm at currently. I'm happy with the results so far.


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

That's really impressive how you did all that with cement! Looking really good.

Would you explain what you mean by the direction of the brush strokes?


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Sure, the brush leaves marks, little grooves in the cement when you brush it. By paying attention to my strokes I meant that I used them to create a bit of a grain to the wood and visual motion. Example no sideways strokes on a vertical plane like the trunk of the tree. Does that make sense?

I'll take pics to clarify more when I go home for lunch.

sent from my incredible...mind


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Another Small update:

Tonight I decided to attack it with paint!

Watered down my colors and did my best to keep it wet while I color washed it.

in dim top lighting with no flash.









and with flash









As you can see with flash there are a bit more obvious color marks I'll have to see how it works out after it's all dry tomorrow morning. If it looks bad I'll just mix a thin batch of cement and start over.

I'm a bit nervous of adding the mossy spots, I might just skip it.



As for the "watching my brush strokes" here are some close up shots that might help make more sense.

















the brush moves in the direction you would expect natural growth


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Hummm some input would really be appreciated. I'm staring to second guess this root build :/


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

I am having the same issue with my thread, no input. but it looks good. I think it needs more browns in it to make it more natural, use black to make the root cracks really pop, I think that will help you out. Dont give up!! Also, once you get the vines done and sprawled all over it It will help complete it I think.


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## eyeviper (May 23, 2006)

The brush marks look good too. like tropical bark which is usually very smooth


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I'm no expert but I'm watching and enjoying this build. Looks good to me!


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks guys! I'll keep working on it!


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## ckays (Jul 26, 2011)

suztor said:


> Hummm some input would really be appreciated. I'm staring to second guess this root build :/


Input's overrated. If you like it, than roll with it. 
It's not like there is gonna be a contest or anything...


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Heh,I started second guess my self not because of a lack of input but because I simply wasn't sure.

I wish we weren't having guests over this weekend! I just want to work on my build!


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Alright! I've painted it up some more and am pretty happy with it. The picture doesn't do it justice. I need to seal it now.










As you can see I added a piece of Mopani wood that I hadn't initially planned for. but. That piece was a steal!!! I paid 2 bucks for it at a thrift store.

It has this really cool really open almost basket shape that I'm really looking forward to using.

View from the top of the wood.

















The long piece of wood that goes in that hole is still going there too. minus the cork ad-on

I need to start planning on how to plant this tank I think I'm good on vine plants and the 'larger' leaved plants for now but I need to look into some broms and ferns. any suggestions?

Where would you put what plant in this build was yours?


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

You obviously have a MUCH better eye for layout and design than I do so I won't even attempt a suggestion of what plants to get or where to put them. All I can recommend is to read, read some more, buy from a reputable vendor, and take plenty of pictures! 
(that last part is just for me, but still  )
I'm really looking forward to seeing how you incorporate those vines.


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## goku (Nov 11, 2009)

the painting improved a lot the result! good job, Cannot wait to see it finished!

greetings!


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks! I'm pretty excited to start coco fibering/husking my background today.

I ordered some broms and some ferns and an orchid to go with the other vining-ish plants I have. Sooooo excited!


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## tmos540 (Dec 9, 2011)

Wow, ever thought of getting a job as a zoo display designer? I am a part-time art student, and building my first viv. Let me just say, DAMN. You have a terrific eye for layout and design. 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks for the compliment! I really appreciate it!

Lol, I would love to do that. But I'd have no clue how to go about getting hired for that!


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

First here are the pics I accidentally moved from my earlier posts



























So big update!










I broke down and ended up buying a bag of the loose coco fiber/eco earth because the coco fiber works well in most places but leaves lots of gaps

So I would lay down a big section of silicone and use a plastic knife to spread it into nooks and crannys and push in the coco husk then over that I'd push in the coco fiber to cover the little gaps. 
(Note: straight out of the bag the coco fiber was really damp. So I fired up the oven and cooked it at 300 for about 30 min? since I laid it in the tray rather thick I would stir it and mix it up every 10 mins or so)

then I tackled the vines the biggest tip... gloves gloves gloves! i would squirt out a bunch of silicone in a discardable tray (from microwave meals) and scoop out a good bit and work a 5-6 inch area for a while rubbing the silicone in to all the twists of the rope it took a looong time! after putting the silicone on I would put the rope in my coco fiber tray and roll it around and push the coco in. 











After all of that I let it dry for a few hours and got impatient and placed it in the tank. I put about 7 or 8 huge globs of silicone on the glass and pushed the background into it. the greatstuff had pulled the eggcrate into a NOT flat shape so Luckily the bf wasn't home when I went outside and got his nice clamps out and clamped the background to the back of the tank (shhhhhh secret) I then put a huuuuge glob of silicone in that hole I've kept open to put the branch in, then stuck the branch in and filled in a few gaps that it had because of the angle it had.

Set a fan up blowing into the tank then left the clamps and fan on all night.










Next day I played forever with the vines to make them look how I wanted.
after I got those down I put a thin layer of coco husk that I had left over and 2 bags of ABG (from josh's frogs).









Finally I started planting...
holy cow planting is difficult when you aren't sure how everything grows! 
So i did my best *(Please tell me if I put plants in the wrong places)*

I might have too many plants :/ buuut I like the way it looks

The big reveal.... bumm bumm bummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (<---- drum roll)










































TADAAAAAAA!













Now all I need are my frogs! which I will be getting the weekend of Feb 19th  so a few weeks.


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## gardennub (Dec 10, 2011)

Looks awesome! IDK if its the lighting, or the camera but for the full tank shot the color is a little off. Makes it kind of hard to appreciate all the plants in there. But beautiful tank!


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

I've got one of those plant bulbs as the light and it is a little pink which is strange to me. but when I have a little more time I'm going to take a better picture where I can color balance it better. 

It also probably doesn't help that all the pictures I took are from my phone. :/


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## davidadelp (Sep 29, 2010)

If that brom to the right of the viv is in the substrate I would recommend mounting it somewhere on you background otherwise your brom will likely rot.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Although it looks that way, it's not. There is a small cork round tumble that it is proped on that I'm hoping it roots to.

Thanks though, any more suggestions?

sent from my incredible...mind


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

suztor said:


> Luckily the bf wasn't home when I went outside and got his nice clamps


This literally had me LOL'ing! I used to sneak my ex-gf's nice kitchen gear for fish / frog stuff. Glad to hear it works both ways 

The tank's looking good! I don't think there are too many plants. In fact, I see plenty of room for what you have to grow out or to add some broms, moss, or orchids along the vines. The one thing that sticks out to me is the vine that curls back on itself in front of the coco-hut. The backwards curve looks a bit unnatural, but that might just be me.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Heh,my bf and I get into arguments because I like to use our "grilled cheese" knife (just a smaller seraded knife) to carve my foam with lol

sent from my incredible...mind


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

AHHH MOLD!!! on quite a few things! I'm trying pretty hard not to freak out because it's supposed to be natural. I just ordered some springtails and expect them to be here tomorrow or Friday.

I need to make a frog locker or something with all this food I'm making for them!

Does any one know if FF or Springs require light? because I can always put them away in my newt tank stand if they don't


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## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

I know first-hand that FF's, springtails, isopods, flour beetles, and bean beetles don't need light. I keep all my cultures in a coat closet which only gets light when I feed them (or when I get cold). They do need air, though, and I've heard the warmer it is the faster they breed (up to about 80 F, I've heard beyond that it can kill them).

Don't stress the mold. Some of it actually looks pretty cool so try to enjoy it while you can. The springs should make short work of it.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Cool to the cabinet they go! Just got my spring culture today. Holy cow! Those things are nearly microscopic! Expected something like small isopods lol.

I seeded my tank and started a 2nd culture so I have 2 going now. Since I'm going to be leaving for a week soon, I think I'm going to put a small hole(like a hole punch size) in the lids and hot glue a paper coffee filter to it. For ventilation

I have the original culture which is in peat and my new culture that is in ABG. With crumpled leaf litter and Eco earth. And I think im going to start another in filter carbon. And see what does best for me.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

So I'm getting so anxious for my frogs, that I'm having frog nightmares! 

I'm going to Italy for a week starting on Feb 4 and I'm not getting my frogs until the weekend of the 19th! I'm being forced to be patient! I'm evidently not a patient person! 

I almost don't want to go to Italy, but really I know I will really enjoy it. 

I keep telling myself that its good for the tank to grow out and seed for that month! Since finishing it. But I want my FROGS! RAAAAAAAAAAAH!




Needed to vent :/


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## edfarn (Jan 27, 2012)

LOOKIN GOOD, IT AMAZES ME THE TALENT IN CARVING GREATSTUFF PEOPLE HAVE. I HAVE NO SKILL BUT I AM GONNA TRY THE STUMP FOR MY FIRST BUILD. opps soory caps,,,, my first viv was an exo and i just used the back wall that came with it and planted 2 plants,and some moss, kinda boring but it still looks nice. bought soem froglets from jim (thanx jim was grat meeting you). and want these little guys to have a nice home,, sooo after spending 40 for a 20 gal tank, 50ish for a fogger, 50 ish at home depot/lowes and 50 ish at josh's frogs, and several ours out in the woods getting leaf litter etc... i am ready to begin.

Ed

ps good forum


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks ed, if you are using great stuff it is my personal preference to use the big gap one (in the red can) the foam is much more carve-able and less spongy. Also liked using an exacto knife. When carving use eye protection! those bits get in your eye and it scratches them to heck! I learned that the hard way, stubbornly after having it happen twice!

As for an update:
*I GET MY FROGS THIS WEEKEND!!!*  I'm so excited. 2 of my fly cultures are booming, tank is nicely seeded with springs, hopefully will get some Iso's as well but this is a good start.

I was out of town for a week but had someone caring for my viv while I was out to maintain it. My red broms have started to turn green, so I'm not sure if I have enough lighting or if the lighting was inconsistent while I was gone, I'm running 2 T8s one for a 10 gallon and one for a 20.

Also I had some plant die off which makes me sad but it wasn't significant, I may have been over watering them. And the tank has no air circulation, that will be changing.

I went and dug through my box of spare computer parts from builds and upgrades and found this fantastic little sucker.








I also made sure I can replace it when it inevitably does go to fan heaven.
they have it at the asus estore

Its a VRM fan and it blows directionally which is what I want it to do, so I can aim it across the front wall/glass. For now I'll probably run it manually but I'm going to be looking for a timer where I can hook up my lights and my fan to run on a set schedule. Is there a timer out there that I can set for hours and minutes or seconds?

I'm probably also be changing my lighting set up. I have 4 single 'bulb' t5 fixtures I can use and daisy chain together.

I'm likely going to be basically putting a bookshelf up over the the viv with enough space to open the lid. Which will allow for less heat to go into the tank in the summer, and having 4 lights will hopefully compensate for the larger distance away from the tank(?). I'll attach the lights to the bottom of the shelf. I'll attach all 4 but since they are daisy chained I can disconnect them if all are not needed. I'll probably add some trim around the shelf to hide the lights a little since this is in my living room and a bit of a display piece.

improved lighting annnnnd storage! 


yay frogs


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Ooooooh I got my frooooogs! 









although it is a camera phone pic, the frogs are visible. 









The female

















The male 

They are doing great! They only took about 1 night to get used to their tank and are out snacking on flies and exploring. The male who was supposed to be the shy one, is the one I see the most front and center and showing off his awesome belly! 

I was suprised to see that even with being new, they don't freak out about having hands in the viv. I was 3 inches away adjusting something and they just sat and watched me!


I'm super excited and happy about them


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Oh man little did I know that the advice everyone gave me was soooooo flawed 

When I first inquired, about getting one frog, they said the second you have one, you'll want another. So I got a pair.... Now I want a third, an additional male. 


And I want to build more vivs because I find the process relaxing and distracting . But I know if I build a viv ill want more frogs......

Omg- the bf is going to kill me! Lol. Got to wait for the show in phoenix later in the year.

Oh updates coming soon. Fan install and new lighting fixtures.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

Yep, we ALL conspired to NOT tell you how wonderful viv building and frog keeping really is lol. Now we have you hooked. Frog addict. 

Time to trade in the old bf for BF 2.0, frog equipped version.


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

Lol, I knew it!
 
sent from my incredible...mind


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