# Sudden Death



## DKeller (May 4, 2014)

I just got some frogs, WC imports of Tinc morphs.

We had 2 of them die today suddenly. One looked like it's leg had been pinched, and the other had no marks on it at all. I've had them in my possession for barely 2 days. I checked their tanks, I meticulously prepped the tanks, humidity is at about 80%, they were eating on Friday, temperature at 73 degrees, and there's nothing I can think of that is a factor on my end that would kill these frogs. All my other frogs in my house are healthy, no issues.

I put them in the freezer so they can be necropsied if necessary. What should I do with the surviving members of each pair? They supposedly tested neg for ranavirus and chytrid.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

DKeller said:


> I just got some frogs, WC imports of Tinc morphs.
> 
> We had 2 of them die today suddenly. One looked like it's leg had been pinched, and the other had no marks on it at all. I've had them in my possession for barely 2 days. I checked their tanks, I meticulously prepped the tanks, humidity is at about 80%, they were eating on Friday, temperature at 73 degrees, and there's nothing I can think of that is a factor on my end that would kill these frogs. All my other frogs in my house are healthy, no issues.
> 
> I put them in the freezer so they can be necropsied if necessary. What should I do with the surviving members of each pair? They supposedly tested neg for ranavirus and chytrid.


Are the other pair in quarantine, away from your other animals? Did you ask to see the test results? Does the person you got them from have a feedback thread here? If so, any negative feedback? Please don't mention names, as it's not allowed to be posted here, it must be in the feedback section.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

DKeller said:


> I put them in the freezer so they can be necropsied if necessary.


Freezing is not recommended for specimen preparation for necropsy.



aspidites73 said:


> Does the person you got them from have a feedback thread here? If so, any negative feedback? Please don't mention names, as it's not allowed to be posted here, it must be in the feedback section.


http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/dendrobates/187657-blue-pumilio-import.html#post1997729


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## DKeller (May 4, 2014)

aspidites73 said:


> Are the other pair in quarantine, away from your other animals? Did you ask to see the test results? Does the person you got them from have a feedback thread here? If so, any negative feedback? Please don't mention names, as it's not allowed to be posted here, it must be in the feedback section.


It wasn't a pair. It was a single from two different pairs. All my new frogs are in quarantine. Now I guess I'm moving those two tanks to my bedroom.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

You should immediately have the remaining frogs tested, Rana, Chytrid and fecals done.

Unfortunately as the existing frogs were frozen, there is little that can be done with them.

Can you post pictures of these frogs?


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## DKeller (May 4, 2014)

I hope this is posting photos. I think I lost a pair.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

The first frog is horribly thin. I'm very careful about even attempting to make a diagnoses online, but you should seriously consider having the surviving frogs checked.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Something to consider for everyone, when buying WC or other frogs for that matter you really need to do a thorough QT and test. Even if the seller "says" they were treated. Papers are good (your own testing needs to be done) I have noticed their is a lot of "prophylactic" treatment vs actually testing for Chytrid going on.
To the OP I am sorry for your loss, like Doug said, once frozen, necropsy is not an option. My advice is to contact the seller and let them know what happened, if it is the seller I think it is might be a problem with getting your $ back. Good info on this link: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...u-dont-get-ripped-off-dead-beat-froggers.html

Please QT the "survivors" and test, esp. for Chytrid.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

While you can't get the frozen frogs necropsied, you can get them swabbed for pcr tests for things like chytrid and ranavirus. 

It may also be possible for a vet to recover some fecal material for testing from the deceased animals although the live ones are probably carrying any parasites the deceased ones may have had. 

If the seller advertised them as "quarantined", then I would suggest questioning why they sent you a frog in such condition and seeing if there is some compensation they would be willing to provide. 

Some comments 

Ed


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I saw the most recent of these imports last night and they have tested negative for both Rana and Chytrid and per Dr Frye parasite load is minimal. At least the newest imports seem to be in great shape and have some amazing variability. These are the nata and robertus so if your morphs are those you can still pair up your single animals if they survive but you would have to get them through another more reputable source.


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## Reef_Haven (Jan 19, 2011)

markpulawski said:


> These are the nata and robertus


Nata ?????


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Short for I am sure natasha....they named 2 morphs natasha and dasha a while back


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