# Noob with a tapole



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Hi everyone!

I've been interested in Dart Frogs for a while now, since seeing them in a local pet store. I never considered getting one because of how much they cost. $60-80 each in my area. 

Long story short, I went to a reptile show this weekend (To buy a Chameleon for my Girlfriend) and picked up a D.azureus tadpole. The prices of the frogs at the show were much more reasonable, average $25-30, but I found someone selling tadpoles so I bought one of those instead, figuring it would give me time to get everything I need without hurrying into it and it seemed like it would be really fun to grow a frog. 

Anyways, the dealer told me to treat the tadpole like a betta. It's still alive so I think he's going to make it.

I read the tadpole care thread and I think I have everything under control, I'm just confused about what I need to keep him alive once he has legs. 
I'm planning on using a 12x12x18 habitat. I don;t have much room for anything else. (already have 2 reef tanks, huge chameleon cage and the ferrets take over half the living room!) So I want something to keep on the kitchen counter. Any advice you can throw my way would be great. 

Thanks!


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

12x12x18 is a little small. This is a terrestrial frog so he'll want more ground space. Could you fit a standard 10g tank? 

Tadpoles are easy. Feed them a good quality fish food. I do partial changes in my tad water, every few days, using a turkey baster to suck out the poo and a bit of water and then top off.

When the back legs are grown and the front legs are about to pop out (you'll know it when you see it) you can do a number of things to get him ready. If you have a tank set up, I'd just put his tad cup in there and tilt it so he can climb out. 

Make sure you have some flies ready and springtails would be good to.


----------



## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

yeah, 12x12x18 does equal out to over 10 gallons, but azureus are a part of the tinctorius group and prefer horizontal vivariums. Also, good choice on frog species, as azureus were my first frogs and make great beginner frogs.

I can promise you that this will probably not be your last dart!  They are very addictive. Even if you don't have room after your first viv, you will start to spend hours trying to figure out how to rearrange your room so the new viv fits. it's all a package deal. 

Edit: yeah, you should probably start getting ff cultures, springtail cultures, and the plans for the viv going ASAP, because usually the more time given for a viv to set in and for microfauna to colonize, the healthier it is. Usually.


----------



## tfox799947 (Jun 4, 2012)

I can promise you that this will probably not be your last dart!  They are very addictive. Even if you don't have room after your first viv, you will start to spend hours trying to figure out how to rearrange your room so the new viv fits. it's all a package deal. 

That is so funny! I just got almost done with a rack of 4 more tanks and found myself walking around with a measuring tape trying to figure out how I can fit another rack in!
I now know I can buy a stand to fit 2 more 40b! After looking around at the livingroom which now has 2-40b, 3-20gallons, and a 30x30x18, my husband says while rolling his eyes, how many more of these things are you going to get. My response? Do we REALLY need a couch? LOL
Have fun and good luck with your tad.


----------



## crested (May 15, 2011)

Sounds like you have things pretty well handled, but I personally found this video very handy!

How to care for Poison Dart Frog tadpoles - YouTube


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

wow thanks for the quick replies everyone!

Yes, I can fit a 10 gallon tank in the kitchen. It might actually work better because the lower height of the tank will fit under the wall cabinets. 

What lighting do I need for the frogs? I read they don't require special light, but I've also read the froglets should have UVB. 

I do partial water changes every day. I use a 5ml syringe to suck out the waste and replace the water with the same amount, usually 15ml a day. seems to be working well. He's getting fed marine fish flakes right now, not sure if there's something better. 

I'll try to get working on his habitat this weekend. 

Do I use a screen top, or a glass top? 

Thanks


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

They don't require UV light. They do need to be properly supplemented with dusted fruit flies. Many of us like the Repashy Calcium Plus because it is a all-in-one supplement. 

The light is mainly for the plants, as long as the frogs get ambient light. They should have a night/day cycle. Lots of folks to 12/12 dark and light. You probably have lights around from your fish tanks. Those are fine. If they are low light, you can just replace the bulb with a brighter light. Doesn't need to be fancy. I use 6500k daylight bulb from Lowes for just a few bucks.

Top should be glass or mostly glass. I like to have a bit of ventilation, so my tops are 80-90% glass and then a screened section. Look around in the 'Construction' area for good ideas.


----------



## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

Also, springtails and dwarf Isopods. LOTS of them, your froglets will need to eat more than you feed him plus it's good for a varied diet. Don't you like to have a snack in between meals?

D


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Where do I find springtails and isopods? I have a ton of isopds in my reef tank, but i'm sure the frogs won't like the saltwater variety. Lol

The pet store that sells dart frogs sells fruit flies


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

You can find springs and isos from folks here. Check out the 'for sale' section. Plants & Supplies Classifieds - Dendroboard

Before you buy any frogs from a pet store, please check with us 

There is also a Vendor Feedback section, in case you want to check up on who you buy from. You can also PM us for advice: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/vendor-feedback/


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh don't worry, I won't buy them from the pet store, they want $80 for a azureus! 

So now that I know I can get away with a 12" tall tank, I can fit a 18x18x12. Would this be better then a 10g tank? The cost of the 10g would be around $60 for the tank, glass lid and light. And the Exo terra cube would be around $90 just for the tank with a screen lid. Is having the front door access really worth the extra cost. Any other benefits? One other positive I found for the 10g is the variety of inexpensive stands in case i want to move the tank somewhere else.


----------



## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

qwank said:


> Oh don't worry, I won't buy them from the pet store, they want $80 for a azureus!
> 
> So now that I know I can get away with a 12" tall tank, I can fit a 18x18x12. Would this be better then a 10g tank? The cost of the 10g would be around $60 for the tank, glass lid and light. And the Exo terra cube would be around $90 just for the tank with a screen lid. Is having the front door access really worth the extra cost. Any other benefits? One other positive I found for the 10g is the variety of inexpensive stands in case i want to move the tank somewhere else.


For the exo terra, you will need to replace the screen with glass because the screen will not hold the humidity in. In My Opinion (IMO), the only benefit of having a front opening viv is that you don't have to move the lights that are resting on top of the tank before you open the viv.


----------



## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

qwank said:


> Where do I find springtails and isopods? I have a ton of isopds in my reef tank, but i'm sure the frogs won't like the saltwater variety. Lol
> 
> The pet store that sells dart frogs sells fruit flies


Ya, dart frogs won't like saltwater Isopods, but sixlines sure do. I had a sixline wipe out my entire population but that's a story for a different thread. As frogface said, don't buy frogs from your LPS before consulting us.

D


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

qwank said:


> Oh don't worry, I won't buy them from the pet store, they want $80 for a azureus!
> 
> So now that I know I can get away with a 12" tall tank, I can fit a 18x18x12. Would this be better then a 10g tank? The cost of the 10g would be around $60 for the tank, glass lid and light. And the Exo terra cube would be around $90 just for the tank with a screen lid. Is having the front door access really worth the extra cost. Any other benefits? One other positive I found for the 10g is the variety of inexpensive stands in case i want to move the tank somewhere else.


That seems like a lot of money for a 10g. Let's see, 15 bucks for the tank (that's what it is at my local PetCo), glass cut from somewhere like Ace Hardware is only a few bucks, I use clamp lamps for 7 bucks not including the bulb. Maybe you want to go a little fancier than my ghetto tanks 

Exos are nice tanks. You can leave the screen on and get a piece of glass cut for the top. Then you can shift that around to adjust your ventilation.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Yeah it was $15 for the tank, $13 for the glass top and $31 for the 20" light fixture. I think the 10g is going to be the best route.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Good idea. Save your money for the really big tank you'll be getting later to house your group of terribilis


----------



## frog dude (Nov 11, 2011)

qwank said:


> Yeah it was $15 for the tank, $13 for the glass top and $31 for the 20" light fixture. I think the 10g is going to be the best route.


Be warned about glass tops made for fish. they usually have a little flap of black plastic at the end that flies, frogs and humidity could escape through. If the lid you have is one of those, you will have to find somewhere to seal it, or just go to a hardware store and just get tow pieces of glass cut.

also, I cheaper light would be a regular dome fixture for like 7 bucks and a 6500k cfl daylight bulb for cheap. it works well for me.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Yeah, I figured I can make a screen to fill the back area on the glass hood.

So I understand how the layers of substrate work, but do I need some type of powerhead to keep the water flowing under there so it doesn't get stagnant? and how thick should each layer be? 

I can easily make a false bottom if that's a better way to set up the tank than to use the clay balls.


----------



## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

No you don't need a powerhead, there's not going to be nearly enough water to be pushed around. Depending on your tank size, 1-2 inches of a drainage layer, 2-3 inches of soils, and 1-3 inches of leaf litter.

D


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Make sure to leave yourself a way to remove excess water. I use a syphoning tube.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

I picked up a 10g tank this weekend, so at least I'm off to a start. 

This morning I spooked the tadpole and he was upside down for a second while he was tweaking out and I saw what looked like back legs growing under him. Pretty cool.


----------



## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

No matter how many times you've seen it, watching a tadpole morph into a frog is always truly an awesome experience.

D


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

It's been 3 weeks and the tadpole is still doing good. No rear legs yet though.

I ordered a tankless frog kit from Josh's frogs to go with the 10g I picked up. Hopefully I can start putting the tank together this weekend If I can find the time. I didn't get anything for a background yet though, I should have ordered some tree fern panels but forgot. Not sure if it's sold around here anywhere.


----------



## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

qwank said:


> It's been 3 weeks and the tadpole is still doing good. No rear legs yet though.
> 
> I ordered a tankless frog kit from Josh's frogs to go with the 10g I picked up. Hopefully I can start putting the tank together this weekend If I can find the time. I didn't get anything for a background yet though, I should have ordered some tree fern panels but forgot. Not sure if it's sold around here anywhere.


Have fun with it! Be sure to show us pics. We love pics. 

You don't really need a background.


----------



## outofreach (Aug 21, 2012)

qwank said:


> It's been 3 weeks and the tadpole is still doing good. No rear legs yet though.
> 
> I ordered a tankless frog kit from Josh's frogs to go with the 10g I picked up. Hopefully I can start putting the tank together this weekend If I can find the time. I didn't get anything for a background yet though, I should have ordered some tree fern panels but forgot. Not sure if it's sold around here anywhere.


If you don't want to use tree fern they have this stuff similar to epiweb at many hydroponics stores. I got a 4'x4' by a little over an inch for about $50. It will do the tank your working on and many future tanks. I have a friend that uses it and I sure hope it works because I just did a few tanks with it.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanks guys, I'll look around to see what I can find this weekend. 

For my fish tank backgrounds, I just tint the back glass with 2.5% automotive window tint. I may just do that to the tank if I can't figure out a background. I don't think I want to mess with expandable foam or anything. lol


----------



## Frog Tropics (Jul 18, 2012)

Tinc tadpoles go crazy for tadpole bites and frozen bloodworms as well. They will eat dried but they do black flips for frozen bloodworms. Once they morph out, the biggest challenge is keeping a constant food supply. If you can tackle that, you're well on your way to success. Congrats on your first dart frog!


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

I found some tree fern local, but I don't think I like how it would look on the back, so I got a regular cork background from the pet store. I siliconed it on and tomorrow will start on my false bottom. I also found a great piece of wood to use. The ideas are stating to come to me and I think I should be able to come up with a pretty cool looking yet simple viv. 

If I make a pond in the viv, can I move the tadpole in there, so when he morphs he can just jump out, of is it best to leave him in the small container inside the viv?

maybe I'll grab some bloodworms tomorrow, my fish will probably like them too. I have mysis and brine shrimp here. will the tad pole eat either of those?


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

So it's been about 5 weeks and the tadpole still has no legs. I noticed it's eating a lot more now then when I first got it. 

I got the background glued on and all the substrate down on the viv. I didn't make a pond or anything like that. I also got a regular glass top and made a screen to replace the plastic part. That's about as far as I got so far. there was another reptile show last weekend but I didn't get to go because of work. I wanted to get some plants and some pods if anyone had some.


----------



## Shinosuke (Aug 10, 2011)

IME people don't usually bring isos, springtails, or other "unique" feeders to shows unless you ask them to. You can usually find at least 1 type of FF, though.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Been about 2 months and still no back legs. He's about twice the size he was when I got him though. 

My viv is pretty much done with the exception of plants and pods.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

we have legs


----------



## Gnarly (Mar 3, 2011)

Congratulations


----------



## OSU (Nov 10, 2008)

Congrats on the tadpole. You don't need springtails for the azureus froglet, fruitflies should be just fine. I like to put the tadpole in a plastic shoe box once the front legs get close to popping out. Put a pencil or something similar on one side of it so the bottom is sloped and put just enough water in it so 2/3 of the bottom is under water and 1/3 is dry. This gives them a nice sloped area to crawl out of the water on when they are ready. Its pretty easy for the new froglets to drown when they first pop legs.


----------



## RobR (Dec 24, 2011)

OSU said:


> Congrats on the tadpole. You don't need springtails for the azureus froglet, fruitflies should be just fine. I like to put the tadpole in a plastic shoe box once the front legs get close to popping out. Put a pencil or something similar on one side of it so the bottom is sloped and put just enough water in it so 2/3 of the bottom is under water and 1/3 is dry. This gives them a nice sloped area to crawl out of the water on when they are ready. Its pretty easy for the new froglets to drown when they first pop legs.


I recently had some giant orange tinc froglets morph out and they started well on springtails and stunted melanos. Personally I would get a culture or two of springs and make sure you have your fruit fly culturing down.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

So the left front leg showed up today. Is he going to climb out immediately after the right one shows up? or is it after his tail is completely gone? Do I stop feeding him after the other leg shows up?


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Just an update for anyone who cares.
The frog has been out of the water for a few weeks now and is doing well. Thanks everyone for all the help!! It was fun watching him grow.


----------



## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

qwank said:


> Just an update for anyone who cares.
> The frog has been out of the water for a few weeks now and is doing well. Thanks everyone for all the help!! It was fun watching him grow.


He looks wonderful!


----------



## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Maybe I missed it, but your profile doesn't reveal where you live...there are such good DBers all over who would love to help you if you need it...proof is in how they have held your hand from the tadpole cup to now...congrats...you're hooked...


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Judy S said:


> Maybe I missed it, but your profile doesn't reveal where you live...there are such good DBers all over who would love to help you if you need it...proof is in how they have held your hand from the tadpole cup to now...congrats...you're hooked...


Thanks. I'm in Southern NH. I actually went to a reptile show today and bought some stuff to culture fruit flies, which worked out well because the one culture I bought a few weeks ago looks like it needs to be thrown out soon. Black Jungle Terrarium Supply was there and had springtails so I bought some of those today also. I wanted to get another tadpole but no one had any this time.


----------



## qwank (Sep 27, 2012)

Updating my thread. 

My frog is almost 2 years since hatched and he's doing well. He still lives by himself but I guess he doesn't mind having the place to himself?


----------

