# Matala false bottom need a substrate barrier



## aapuzzo (Apr 20, 2020)

I keep learning better ways to do things and it's driving me crazy. Do you still need to use a substrate barrier with matala? Which coarseness should I use? Some people said don't use the finest. I want to build an entire rack system and my floors will thank me for it over hydroton and a substrate barrier. Egg crate just seems like a PITA which is what I was going to do.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

I used coarse Matala, open cell filter foam, then fibreglass window screen under calcined clay and leaf litter.

My upcoming tank will be similar; but more leaf litter, no substrate or window screen.




















































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minorhero (Apr 24, 2020)

Assuming you are planning to use abg I would definitely use a substrate barrier. I have some of the 'finest' matala and its still very coarse. If you used just the matala and dumped abg on top then parts of the mix would definitely just slide down into the matala fouling your water. If you went coarser it would be even worse. 

No real comment on which coarseness you should use, I suspect any would work for your intended purpose.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Weed block. Simple. Works well.

I've done it for 20 years.

s


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## Harmenjan (Oct 28, 2018)

Scott said:


> Weed block. Simple. Works well.
> 
> I've done it for 20 years.
> 
> s



why opencell foam in between if you put fiberglass mosquito mesh on top?


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## Tijl (Feb 28, 2019)

Cause the water has a lot of resistence due to the thinkness of fine mesh and everything will get saturrated. If using weed mats it only needs to penetrate 0.05mm or so until it had no more resistence to glow all the way down.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Harmenjan said:


> why opencell foam in between if you put fiberglass mosquito mesh on top?


Not sure whom you were asking, but it's what I do for the following reasons:

1. Matala is a rigid base and allows all water to pass through it and collect.

2. When cut to fit properly, the open cell foam stays tight against the sides of the tank to prevent substrate (and frogs) from reaching the space beneath via the sides.

3. (a) The window screen covers any seams in the open cell foam floor (sometimes it's one-piece but at other times you find yourself cutting 2 or more pieces to butt up against each other and fit.)

(b) Additionally, in the event that the tank needs to be stripped or otherwise dismantled for whatever reason the screen makes it easier to simply lift most of the substrate out.

(c) The screen acts as an additional barrier to prevent substrate from sifting into the open cell foam, which may or may not have irregular voids capable of collecting pieces of calcined clay.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Except that peat (one of the main ingredients for ABG) is finer than fiberglass window screen.

Which is why I use something that keeps all substrate materials where they should be but allows water to filter through.


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## Fahad (Aug 25, 2019)

Scott said:


> Except that peat is finer than fiberglass window screen.
> 
> Which is why I use something that keeps all substrate materials where they should be but allows water to filter through.


Ah yes. My method pre-supposes calcined clay.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I used weed block with calcined clay as well with no issues.

s


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## jgragg (Nov 23, 2009)

> I keep learning better ways to do things and it's driving me crazy.


A useful question to consider is "what should I do with new information that seems very reliable but challenges my beliefs or practices?"

There are two basic answers - 1) "nothing", and 2) "see if I need to adjust my beliefs or practices, and if I do, then I do".

I maintain that only idiots would go with answer #1. If you simply adjust your attitude, you won't be driven crazy. It's better to get better, and it's unreasonable to expect perfection - _or even adequacy_ - in early days. Plus, nobody is entitled to "don't have to deal with disruption". So get better, and be content.



> Do you still need to use a substrate barrier with matala? Which coarseness should I use?


Yes. Coarseness of barrier or of Matala? Matala - doesn't matter, they all drain great. Barrier - fine enough to keep all or nearly all the substrate up where it belongs, and coarse enough to drain fast. Honestly eben using faux ABG I do just fine with window screen - I think the roots, and the soil-fungi mycelia, and the soil bacteria work together to just "glue" everything in place well enough. I get very little "dirt" in my subsurface reservoirs. Tannins, yes. Particles, no. Others' experiences may diverge, naturally.

Good luck!


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

There is a specific window screen sold in most home improvement stores that is made to be denser and more durable. It usually has about twice the number of lines. I would use, it's ultra-cheap and does a good job blocking. IME most weed block doesn't have enough drainage and most screen is a little too much and allows a few too many particles through.
I would just use Matala plus the screen. One thing though is I would cut the matala a little smaller than the vivarium and put a better looking drainage material around any visible side of the glass then make the screen bigger and extend it almost to the edge of the glass. On any side that is not visible run the screen longer and push it a half inch to an inch up the side of the glass. Otherwise you get the hideous layers look.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Pubfiction said:


> There is a specific window screen sold in most home improvement stores that is made to be denser and more durable. It usually has about twice the number of lines. I would use, it's ultra-cheap and does a good job blocking. IME most weed block doesn't have enough drainage and most screen is a little too much and allows a few too many particles through.
> I would just use Matala plus the screen. One thing though is I would cut the matala a little smaller than the vivarium and put a better looking drainage material around any visible side of the glass then make the screen bigger and extend it almost to the edge of the glass. On any side that is not visible run the screen longer and push it a half inch to an inch up the side of the glass. Otherwise you get the hideous layers look.


I've read that about weed block, but the stuff I use (from GlassBox) drains fine. I wonder if there are some combinations of misting amount and "ABG" recipe that don't play as well with a finer barrier.

That is useful advice on hiding the 'hideous layers'. I go one step farther and apply a strip of black self-adhesive shelf liner to the outside bottom of panels that are visible (i.e. front, sometimes sides) to clean up the look a bit more. It covers up any sloppy barrier cutting job, etc. as well. Hideous layers are bad, but looking sideways into any sort of substrate can be a bit distracting, too. The shelf liner is easy enough to apply after the fact, whatever a person does inside the viv.


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

I am sure there are lots of different types of weed block and that plays into it, and yes definitely different types of soil matter. Even ABG itself can be highly variable. I received my first batch of ABG from one vendor and it was had much finer particles and retained much more moisture to the point I didnt care for it. I now make my own ABG so I get it the way I like it.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I've seen the window screen you mention and it is a *lot* like weed block. 

I actually use that specific window screen material to cover the vents in my aquariums so that I do not lose baby shrimp into the back filter area.

s



Pubfiction said:


> There is a specific window screen sold in most home improvement stores that is made to be denser and more durable. It usually has about twice the number of lines. I would use, it's ultra-cheap and does a good job blocking. IME most weed block doesn't have enough drainage and most screen is a little too much and allows a few too many particles through.
> I would just use Matala plus the screen. One thing though is I would cut the matala a little smaller than the vivarium and put a better looking drainage material around any visible side of the glass then make the screen bigger and extend it almost to the edge of the glass. On any side that is not visible run the screen longer and push it a half inch to an inch up the side of the glass. Otherwise you get the hideous layers look.


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