# Variabilis tads with bad front legs - any advice?



## crazesocks (Jun 16, 2006)

Hi,
I have a pair of absolutely beautiful blue-legged variabilis that I purchased from Sean Stewart early last summer. I've gotten about 2 dozen tads out of them, but they all have morphed with bad front legs so far (guessing it's spindly leg). I've never had this problem previously with intermedius, tincs, etc., but for some reason I've had nothing but bad luck so far with my variabilis. Any advice/thoughts? 
Thanks!
Todd


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## Jer (Feb 9, 2008)

Cull affecteds. This could either be genetic or environmental. Tough to figure out which.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The majority of SLS affected froglets are due to husbandry issues. 

Start changing one parameter at a time until it resolves. If you run through an enormous number of combinations you might be able to chalk it up to genetics.. 

If you want to get an idea of the potential number of different causes I will be doing a workshop in June on it. 

Ed


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## EricM (Feb 15, 2004)

*sls*

Everything Ed said is true and it's the best way to try and solve sls problems, one variable at a time. 

This is very common with thumbnail frogs especially young frogs that are just starting to breed. You may see sls clear up without changing anything in your routine, it may just be the frogs have aged a bit and are more prepared physically to reproduce. Good sex takes practice, even for frogs!

I would also seek out froggers in your general area and find out how they raise their tads. Water sources, additives, temps, and diet offered. Also don't pull all the eggs you see, let the frogs raise a few themselves, they also need practice as parents as well.

Good luck
Eric


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

I echo everything that has been previously mentioned.

But to also add some first-hand experience - my first breeding trio of the INIBICO variabilis threw SLS froglets from the first few clutches. After that though - it hasn't appeared again. I believe that Shawn H. (sports_doc) also experienced a similar issue.

I would say to look at all of your parameters - and see what you might need to change - but time may be the only thing they need.


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

rozdaboff said:


> I echo everything that has been previously mentioned.
> 
> But to also add some first-hand experience - my first breeding trio of the INIBICO variabilis threw SLS froglets from the first few clutches. After that though - it hasn't appeared again. I believe that Shawn H. (sports_doc) also experienced a similar issue.
> 
> I would say to look at all of your parameters - and see what you might need to change - but time may be the only thing they need.


Who just outed me? :shock: 

Actually Oz'inator is correct. We went back and forth after getting these frogs, and he seemed months ahead of me the whole time, but eventually both groups figured it out. Interestingly we were both dealing with WC/FR animals so it is hard to know if it was anything nutritional [I doubt it] but rather age related.

I have noticed more issue in winter {?temp of water} as I dont control for tad water temps...mainly noted with FG vents more than my other thumbs. 

I have a group of trucatus that have thrown only SLS froglets since maturity 3 years running..

S


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## crazesocks (Jun 16, 2006)

Thanks for all of the input.
Interestingly enough, within the last week or so, I have started to get some tads that are morphing with good front legs. I would guess that the problems may have been due to the pair being new to breeding or that the temps during breeding may have been too high since they run closer to 80 at times in the summer in my tanks. 
Either way, it's nice to be finally getting some healthy young variabilis frogs!
Todd


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## rozdaboff (Feb 27, 2005)

That is great Todd.

If you aren't already enrolled - I would suggest looking into TWI and the Amphibian Steward Network. It would be great to have your variabilis enrolled in the program - so that we can really keep track of where those frogs are and how they are doing. If you have any questions regarding the program - check out http://www.treewalkers.org - or you can PM me for more info.

Oz


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## asch803 (Nov 10, 2007)

Oz, Iam a friend of George's (you just sent him 2 of the variabilis to breed w/ mine). I have 3 tads in seperate cups for a little over a week now and 2 other clutches of eggs that are developing. My question is, once the tads hatch out from the eggs, approximately how long do they take to begin morphing into froglets? Also, approximately how long does the morphing process take? Right now i have the tads individually in cups w/ some "leaf tea" and add 2 different types of tadpole food every few days. The tads seem to be growing nicely, but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Also, Once I get a decent # of froglets I'll send you a few to breed back to yours if you would like to do that. Mine are a group of 5 INIBICO/SNDF variabilis.

Thanks!

Andy


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Andy
You might try pm'ing him also..

Best


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