# reverse osmosis systems



## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

How many of you use this for the water for your frogs. Does it remove chlorine? Also, what brands and or types? They range in price from 149-300.
The ones at Lowes mount under the sink, not sure that is what I want.

Thanks!!


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

That is all that I use. I have a 10,000 gallon/day system. They remove everything. We just had ours tested against tap water a few weeks ago and the results were pretty neat. The one that I use runs about $5000 so I don't suggest that you get it. 

I'll try and remember to bring home those test comparisons. You really should use r/o water for cooking and such too.


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## FrogOly (Oct 5, 2007)

The RO does not remove chlorine, the carbon prefilter does. It is important to change filters before they can not remove chlorine, because chlorine will wreck your RO. Under the sink RO systems are the most common type available. Make sure the RO you purchase has a shut off valve on the storage tank in case of a leak. Also make sure the RO you purchase has an automatic shut off. That is a diaphragm valve that turns off the incoming water when the storage tank is full. This keeps water from constantly running to the drain.

The amount of contaminants RO's remove from water depends on the quality of the water going in. Hardness and iron will ruin a RO membrane quickly, and they are substances that should be removed from your water before the RO to give you optimal performance. Water pressure that is too low will affect how much is removed as well.

JubJub, a 10,000 gallon per day RO? Do you have that for a business, or did you get one to have all the water in your home running through an RO?


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## asch803 (Nov 10, 2007)

you can buy a pretty decent unit on e-bay for about $100. I think a 100gallon/day unit is probably more than adequate. I used to use much more water when i had several saltwater tanks, i'm down to one now so i'm not making nearly as much water now. The ones on e-bay aren't bad at all.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

FrogOly said:


> JubJub, a 10,000 gallon per day RO? Do you have that for a business, or did you get one to have all the water in your home running through an RO?


Yeah, an aquarium shop. 

I didn't bring up the carbon issue since most decent systems are going to come with it as part of the setup. I personally don't trust most of the float switches or diaphrams to shut off the system. I can't tell you how many custom aquarium setups that we've setup with r/o auto topoffs that the floats/diaphrams fail and start floods. If I was to use a system at the house again I would still only use it while home to keep an eye on it.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

RO systems are only as good as the filters and components used. A cheap RO unit will give sub par results and probably not last as long as it should between filters. I think RO systems used for household drinking water are not that great and should not be used for reef/fresh water tanks. Since water parameters for vivariums are not that specific you could probably be ok with one.

Here is a great company that specifically makes RO/DI units for aquarium use. It is where I will get mine. This video will help explain the different parts of this 7 stage RO/DI unit. Not that a 7 stage is needed, but it gives you options.

YouTube - 7 Stage Deluxe RO/DI System Bulk Reef Supply

Deluxe 7 Stage RO/DI System Bulk Reef Supply


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Unless your going to do a reef system something as big as the 7 stage system is overkill. For freshwater tanks and herps/amphibs you really only need a 3 stage system. 

The best cheap system that we have run across for aquarium use is this model: Kent Marine Products Full Size R/O Units

They produce a decent amount of water and don't cost a fortune. We've had these units anylized and they do almost as good as our large system. If I was going to buy one in the home for frogs it would be this one.


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

The thing is that it removes EVERYTHING, not just chlorine. If I remember correctly from the caudate hobby, this is a bad thing because it can leach nutrients and minerals from an amphibian's skin. If you use one, I would suggest adding a supplement call RO Right to replace these natural vitamins and minerals.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

bobberly1 said:


> The thing is that it removes EVERYTHING, not just chlorine. If I remember correctly from the caudate hobby, this is a bad thing because it can leach nutrients and minerals from an amphibian's skin. If you use one, I would suggest adding a supplement call RO Right to replace these natural vitamins and minerals.


I will quote Ed here, well because he is the Man! This was about RO/DI distilled water and rain water.



Ed said:


> There have been studies in amphibians that show that unless the amphibians do lose ions to the surrounding system due to osmotic issues (the amphibians are in a hypotonic solution) and they have to actively pump the water out of thier system resulting in a loss of ions which can impact the growth and health of the animal. This also requires an extra expendieture of energy to scavenge ions in a low ion enviroment. (I'll include some links below so you can check out the data yourself). With respect to RO water if the incoming water contains CO2, this will not be removed by the membrane and can then subsequently react with the water forming H2CO3 which then dissacociates to form HCO3 and CO3 reducing the pH of the RO water. This can also increase ion loss in some amphibians.
> 
> Rain is hypotonic but there are ions dissolved in the rain (such as carried by the nucleous that formed the rain drop) or items washed from the air like dust, nitrate, pollen, etc) and this does not count what is picked up after it contacts a substrate (like tree trunk, leaves etc). If it was that devoid of nutrients that would make it really hard for most epiphytes to use rain water as a source of nutrients. Most people do not house tadpoles in straight RO or distilled water as they add other items to the water either before, during or after they add the tadpole which reduces the hypotonicity of the solution. These include dried foods (salts and water soluable vitamins are lost to the solution), leaves (again salts, soluable organic compounds, decomposition products), or even plants (plants are leaky and release soluable organic compounds into the water) all of which reduce the tonicity levels between the tadpoles and water. In addition, the different waters can affect the growth and composition of the biofilm in containers resulting in differing effects on the tadpoles.
> 
> ...


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

jubjub47 said:


> Unless your going to do a reef system something as big as the 7 stage system is overkill. For freshwater tanks and herps/amphibs you really only need a 3 stage system.
> 
> The best cheap system that we have run across for aquarium use is this model: Kent Marine Products Full Size R/O Units
> 
> They produce a decent amount of water and don't cost a fortune. We've had these units anylized and they do almost as good as our large system. If I was going to buy one in the home for frogs it would be this one.


Isn't the Kent system over $250? Is there a cheaper model? I think with Kent you pay for the name.
Kent Hi-F Reverse Osmosis Unit 100 G.P.D. at Big Al's Online

I just think if you are going to get a system don't skimp in case you want to use it for your future reef/planted tank.  I don't plan to get a 7 stage, just trying to show OP all options. This is the one I plan to get.

5 Stage Reverse Osmosis Deionization System Bulk Reef Supply

You can T it off and use it for drinking water as well. The thing I like about it is the Dual TDS meter, so you can see what is going in and what is coming out to moniter filters. It also has a built in flush kit and pressure gauge. All for under $200.

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Edit:
Watch the video and you can see why I think this is a very good RO unit for the price. I am by no means trying to argue or getting defensive. I have not bought a RO system yet and I want to discuss what one is best for our situations, for quality and for price. From being in the pet industry for many years I know Kent and Coralife make some great products, but I think there are is better value elsewhere.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I agree that the unit you posted was really nice. I think that for the average frogger it's going to be overkill though. These units vary a bit in output. I believe that we sell the 24gpd system for around $170 or so. I think a lot of it just depends on what your confortable with. Many of the aquarium models aren't high output models since they are primarily used for auto topoff systems. They seem to be ideal for a frogger since I can't imagine that a frogger is going to need more than a few gallons a day at most. They are nice for pulling out of the closet and making up 10 gallons and putting back away until you run out.


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I don't think it's so much quality as it is speed, and considering the amount of water a dart tank uses, one in the low $100's should suit you fine.


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## got frogs? (Sep 7, 2008)

i got mine at josh's frogs. its the 5stage r/o system 50gpd. it works really good and my food has never tasted so good. cost of the system is $115.00 not bad in my book.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Just looked at the system on Josh Frogs and it looks good (the price I mean).


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## got frogs? (Sep 7, 2008)

yeah the price is good and i have had no problems with the system. and i don't get that lime scale on my plants and glass no more I'm vary happy with mine.


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

I know a fair amount about these because of my saltwater and soft water South American cichlid hobbies, and I can tell you that that's an amazing price.


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

Regardless of what brand RO unit you get, I would definitely get a flush kit, it will pay off!



> The R.O. flush kit is strongly recommended for units that are used to purify hard water or water that contains heavy amounts of iron, calcium, and/or magnesium. These elements can clog a membrane in a short amount of time. By using the flush kit once a week for just 15 seconds, you can actually extend the life of the membrane by forcing water over the membrane, which dislodges damaging build-up. This simple process can lengthen the life of your R.O. membrane by as much as six months!


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## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

How much do those go for?


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## Jason (Oct 14, 2004)

bobberly1 said:


> How much do those go for?


$10.

Flush kit for flushing the surface of the RO membrane. Bulk Reef Supply

Not sure how they fit on or if they are universal, my guess is they are, but you may want to double check.

This video will tell you how to install it.

YouTube - Flush Kit BRS


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

I'll post up the analysis reports I have in a bit. They're pretty interesting.


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## jubjub47 (Sep 9, 2008)

Here's our latest water analysis on our r/o unit. I'll do tap water on the left and r/o on the right.

All parameters ppm

sodium 27/1.45
calcium 31.8/0.03
magnesium 4.54/0
ph 7.44/5.93
nitrate 1.7/0
sulfate 55/0
conductivity .321mmhos/cm/ .005mmhos/cm
TDS 209/3
hardness 5.70/0
iron 0/0
manganese 0/0
chloride 29/0
fluoride .7/0
phosphate 0/0
copper .07/0

This is a much larger unit then what you will have in the house, but it shows what the units do for your tap water.


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## FrogOly (Oct 5, 2007)

Jason said:


> Regardless of what brand RO unit you get, I would definitely get a flush kit, it will pay off!



A flush kit is rinse out hardness and iron, will help somewhat, but to get best performance out of your RO, hardness should be less than 10 grains and there should be no iron going intio it. Hardness, and iron damage the membrane, resulting in reduced reduction of TDS. It significantly reduces the life of the membrane, the most important component of a RO. Dow Filmtec manufactures most of the membrane material available, and that material is designed for hardness and iron free water. 50 gpd membranes is the most common. Lots of systems are assembled by small businesses. Some make a good one, others leave important pieces out to reduce costs. The safest bet is to look for a RO that is certified by the WQA (Water Quality Association), or the NSF (National Sanitation Foundation).


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

jubjub47 said:


> Here's our latest water analysis on our r/o unit. I'll do tap water on the left and r/o on the right.
> 
> All parameters ppm
> 
> ...


Wow Tim! Very interesting. Still looking at the one Josh has for sale and he has been very patient and quick to respond to my questions, re: Chlorine, how often to replace filters and membrane along with annual cost.
Geez, I think this hobby is turning me into an engineer.


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## Rich Conley (Jun 12, 2008)

asch803 said:


> you can buy a pretty decent unit on e-bay for about $100. I think a 100gallon/day unit is probably more than adequate. I used to use much more water when i had several saltwater tanks, i'm down to one now so i'm not making nearly as much water now. The ones on e-bay aren't bad at all.


Stay away from the 100gpd units. The 75gpd membranes are much higher grade. The 100gpd ones are essentially the 75gpd ones that fail testing and let too much water through.



If you're looking for an RO unit, I'd check out some of the reef sites. They're pretty much a necessity there.


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## Bcs TX (Sep 13, 2008)

Josh's is a 50 GPD he told me he uses it for his frogs.
I only have 7 auratus so should be more than enough for my coffee and my frogs.


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## bockenstein (Nov 9, 2008)

I have been using Kent Marine R/O D/I units at 24GPD for 8 years. Pros and cons but they put put some very pure water that I will always use. Great for the money and the filters do last a long time. I am thinking about a pre-filter for a little extra help with the tap water though. Great for mixing with orange juice and mixed powder drinks as a bonus. I keep 10 -15 Gallon milk jugs filled at all times.


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## Nick_ (Mar 24, 2008)

If you ask around on the reef forums you'll find that most ro systems perform so closley that any arguement towards one or the other is beyond speculative. The brand of the system itself is far less important than the stages that are all replacible and upgradeable, the ability to backflush and be maintenanced, and a good gauge. Im a frog noob but have some serious reef/aquatic experience and have used a cheapo off brand ro unit for about 6 years, I do however use higher end resin, carbon, and membrane inserts...as these are what make or break how pure the effluent is or isn't.


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