# Bloated Whites Tree Frog?



## TwoGreenFrogs

I know this is a dart frog forum, but frog forum is down and I’m unsure of the urgency of this health issue. Frog has been sitting in his water every day for a while. Yesterday he got kinda big but I thought he was sitting funny, then today I checked and he looked incredibly round so I took him out and now he's soaking in warm water. Frog appears very bloated. Eats calcium dusted crickets, amount unknown cause he catches them and feeding isn’t constantly monitored. Has history of calcium deficiency due to previous owner but was doing fine now. Pooping and eating (though eating a little less). Any idea what may be wrong? Thanks.


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## Socratic Monologue

Posting a pic would be very, very helpful (link to photo sharing site).

Also, please post more info: how long have you had the frog, viv setup details, temp and humidity, cagemates, etc, etc. Also: what do you use for water (tap? dechlorinated? RO?)?


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## Kmc

Its hard to follow what you have described. Perhaps you are upset which I understand.

Out of everything though, to be clear that no matter what is wrong with your frog, if you have taken him out and are keeping him in a container of warm water - Dont do that.


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## TwoGreenFrogs

Frog isn’t my frog but a friends, making posts for him as he is unable to. I had attempted to help him but we couldn’t come to a concrete conclusion. “Had the frog for one year now, temp is probably a bit over 75°, I dont know the humidity, he has three cagemates, 2 green tree frogs and one other whites tree frog and they get filtered water” He included a picture of the setup as well as the frog however I can’t seem to figure out how to include attachments on this site.


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## TwoGreenFrogs

Here is the frogs current and previous appearance as well as the terrarium setup.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9e5fylzt0mpxrij/AAB0HCmPO1QPEyptoAIObFnHa?dl=0


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## Kmc

I think your frog is very sick. It could be a septic issue or organ failure, or both.

If you cannot see a vet now try to arrange a comfortable environment with moistened but not wet (important, not wet) pad of paper towels, something easy to hide under, shallow water resource. Roll a bunch of moist paper towels and mold it around the outside margin of the water dish. Put a smooth stone in the water dish to aid. If you prefer you can use the sub shes used to, but pack it down so that it doesnt get all over eyes and nares due to mobility struggles. 

Part of the reason it may have looked like the frog was soaking continually could be because it was too weak to get out, I dont know, the rear legs appear flaccid esp in one of the pics. 


The frog may be too sick to manage its its own hydration. Or its temperature, or its ability to move into shelter, so dont forget that not only is there physical distress but stress as well so perhaps darkening an ample corner would be a good thing to do for the frog.


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## Johanovich

I agree with KMC, this looks very serious.

Might be a light thing, but on the second picture the pink parts of his body seem to be more red compared to before, which could point to sepsis.

I don't know if this applies to white's treefrog as well, but for sick darts I always look to using frog ringers solution in their baths to make sure they don't have to spend their energy on balancing hydration/dehydration. It also contains some electrolytes that your frog can use. If the excessive bloat is from continuous soaking then that should also clear out a bit.


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## Socratic Monologue

Whatever this is, it is almost certainly environmentally caused -- that's not much of a habitat, frankly. Recommend that your friend provide opportunities for cover, humidity and temperature gradients. Get a temp gun to monitor temperature. Also, don't mix species; those WC green tree frogs are certainly sources of pathogens that are novel to the Whites.

Sorry this happened to your friend. Perhaps it can be prevented in the future.


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## TwoGreenFrogs

The frogs legs have always appeared that way due to calcium deficiency and fractures it experienced when younger. It’s bones are really thin. (Bone scan from around when it was bought in link) That happened when they’d had the frog for about a month, and they’ve now had it for a year. Going to get it into a more comfortable environment in the meantime as it can’t be taken to a vet right now.


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## Joan68

Hi! There is an exactly same problem happening on my Whites tree frog. It got bloated a few weeks ago and the symptoms remains. It first appeared to be lack of calcium, so I bought some calcium powder to feed it, but the situation is not getting better. Gradually, it becomes incapable of climbing and rarely moves in a day. It also lean on the edge of the glass (I guess to release the pressure imposed by the fluid inside the body) and its legs are not working quite well. I found that its forelimbs are not working, when it tried to move forward, only the hind legs' muscles contracts. And due to the COVID I can't bring it to the vet now. Is there any suggestions for what I should do?


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## Socratic Monologue

Are you sure about the Covid situation? Here in the US, vets are -- and have been -- available, as they are essential services. Some do offer virtual apposintments, too, so that may be worth looking into.

It sounds as if your frog needs a vet ASAP.


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## Kmc

Post a photo of your enclosure front full and top view if possible.

Get readings on the warmest, coolest and mid range ambient of the enclosure. Include readings at the coldest hours in your household (usually earliest morning, 5, 6 am) to the warmest (1 to 3 in the afternoon) 

If you have a thermometer stuck to the wall it is not very useful for anything but determining the temp of that spot on the wall. So you may have to move it to aspects of the env that are influenced by whatever heat equip you are applying. Again you have to get readings of the warmest, coolest and ambient. This is why temp guns are so useful.

Your frog should see an ARAV veterinarian.


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## FroggerFrog

I don’t know if this is allowed since it’s a separate thread but could you please post pics of your setup and frogs?


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