# Why use coins with frog for comparison



## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I have noticed a lot more lately that some members have been using coins for size comparison with their frog pics.The problem I have is that the coins are in the enclosure or cups with the frogs.There are potential poisons(laundry soap if washed,someone not washing their hands after using the restroom then handling coins which you get as change,A pesticide worker not washing then circulating them,not to mention the metal factors like copper and such)as money is very dirty.
I was thinking if the object had to be in the cup or enclosure with the frogs why not use something like a film can top(half dollar size),soda bottle top(quarter size) or something we can all relate to in the frog world for size comparison that would not be potentially hazardous to the frogs.Another idea is if you are using a cup and are dead set on using coins for comparison,leave the coin under the see through container so the frogs never have to come in contact with them.

Just some thoughts.Any Ideas on objects to use or ways to make size comparisons that won't affect the frogs are welcomed.


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## papafrogger (Oct 21, 2012)

You know im glad you brought this up. I have done this only once or twice but never thought about it like that. It really is rather dirty.


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## GP dynamite (Feb 19, 2013)

I never thought about it but money is very dirty and carries tons of bacteria. How about losing a tape measure or ruler next to the enclosure. I mean measurements for comparison don't have to be exact just ballpark.


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Better way is to get a permanent marker and mark the frogs top and bottom then show a ruler or tape measure next to it.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I was thinking more of a way that won't stress the frogs either.That and the fumes from the marker would not be good for the frog.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Whenever I see coins used for size comparison, the frogs are in clear cups with the coins underneath.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm cool with that.I don't want to point out any in particular,but I've seen in the past and recently, coins laying on top of mosses in with the frogs which is what has me concerned.


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## cml1287 (Mar 29, 2012)

While your concern may be valid, I think it would be highly unlikely for a frog to be harmed. More than likely, the frog would have to have direct and prolonged exposure. I've heard of entire groups of Pumilio breeding and thriving in or near piles of trash in the wild.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

True,but they are not in small glass cubes which can incubate bacteria with little exposure and wipe out the frogs that can't get away from the problem.Why add a possibility that can be avoided easily?I personally won't buy a frog that I see handled that way,just because it makes me wonder how the husbandry of their animals are being performed.

lust my opinion


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

When I first saw this coin trend, I thought it was sort of odd. Why not just put a ruler next to the frog to give an idea of the actual measurements of the frog? I guess this isn't done because it's hard to get the frogs to sit still, and to align the ruler, etc, without the frogs hopping away or getting stressed.

I came to assume that coins started to be used because they're readily available, everyone knows how big each coin is because they are so commonly used, and because they're pretty easy to use for this purpose -- you can just plop one in a container with the frogs. While this doesn't give you an exact measurement, it provides for a pretty good idea of how big the frogs are, since we know how big the coins are.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

That's what I guessed too.Which is why I was trying to think of something that everyone has or uses daily to use for size comparison.A regular soda cap is about the size of a quarter and a film can top is about the size of a half dollar.I was trying to think of some others,like maybe a glass marble.Not everyone has marbles though.I want to find something common that may be the size of a dime.


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## Venutus1 (Feb 13, 2010)

the coins freak me out less than what most everybody does that is soooo

B-a--a---ad....

paper towels.

bleached white paper toweling is VERY acidic.

don't believe me?

take a small vial of neural pH distilled water.

add in a small piece of Bounty or Brawny... or whatever your favorite is.

let soak for only just a few min.....

then add a few drops of bromethol blue pH indicator and it will turn pi$$ yellow.

have some dioxin anyone?

I hope this helps.

Cheers.
Todd


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

No one?What else can you think of to use for comparison?


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## Athena (Mar 20, 2013)

Lego people. Just do it.




You know you want to... Bonus points for using teenage mutant ninja turtles.


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## andersonii85 (Feb 8, 2004)

oddlot said:


> No one?What else can you think of to use for comparison?


My vote is for dice! To make it standardized we can all use Yahtzee dice. It makes sense. Most people own this game and not even know it. Pull it out of the closet and brush the dust off- grab that dice.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

That's what I'm talking about!Everyone can relate.


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

I think the same arguments could be made for dice as they could for coins. Personally, I don't buy it, really. I grant that there is the possibility that there could be something dangerous on the coins, but there also could be something dangerous on just about anything you expose to your frogs.

I'd personally like to see some empirical data to support that coins are a legitimate danger. I think we have enough to worry about in caring for frogs and getting them going without adding another fear if it's not a well supported one.

Just my $0.02.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Just drop the coin under the see through container. Happy to help


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## easternversant (Sep 4, 2012)

MonarchzMan said:


> I think the same arguments could be made for dice as they could for coins.
> 
> ***Parsed***
> 
> Just my $0.02.


I see what you did there....well played.


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm all for coins and or tape measures, under the cup...I trip out when I see a coin in with the frog or the frog on top of one though, I always try to convince myself that they really cleaned that coin beforehand.


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## senditdonkey (Jan 19, 2013)

oddlot said:


> That's what I'm talking about!Everyone can relate.


I don't get the dice, tape measure, ruler, bottle cap, pencil, being any better than a coin?.... I mean if you touch it, put in drawer, pet your dog, scratch your privates ...... what's the difference? Is hand sanitizer that got on the bottle cap going to cause a whole new set of probems? I use latex gloves around my vivs both to keep poop and crud off me and keep vivs as clean as possible.. should I be checking my frogs for latex allergies? 

I don't know... 




The point would be to keep everything as clean as reasonably possible, IMHO....


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

Hopefully if you ''scratch your privates'',you wash your hands,especially if you are working with your frogs.You can control your environment,but not the thousands of dirty coin handlers that have pigged up your change.


Monarchzman; We know copper and other metals are bad and there is a ton of bacteria and who knows what's on the change you get everyday.I would hope stuff in your home is not that dirty.I personally prefer the object under the cup,but for some reason I see the coins in the cup all too often.My point is why take more chances than you have to.Not me


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## MonarchzMan (Oct 23, 2006)

oddlot said:


> Monarchzman; We know copper and other metals are bad and there is a ton of bacteria and who knows what's on the change you get everyday.I would hope stuff in your home is not that dirty.I personally prefer the object under the cup,but for some reason I see the coins in the cup all too often.My point is why take more chances than you have to.Not me


Yes, copper (remember that pennies are mostly zinc now) and other metals are bad, but you'll have to convince me that exposure for the period of time it takes to take a picture is actually going to cause legitimate and appreciable harm. The studies I know of that look at metals deal with prolonged exposure.

As for bacteria, that is low on my concerns. I would bet that if you swabbed a part of your vivarium, the resulting culture would have hundreds, if not thousands of species of bacteria on it. This is because they're ubiquitous and come in on everything, including the plants put in a viv, the flies, and even the frog's poop.

Now, I'm not saying there isn't cause for biosecurity, I'm just saying we need to worry about things we know are vectors. If you're that concerned about coins, why not just disinfect the coins and then rinse them off to get rid of any residues?

There is empirical evidence to suggest that using latex gloves is bad for tadpoles, and after learning that and the fact that parents transport their tadpoles, I won't handle my frogs with latex gloves anymore. That, IMO, is a legitimate risk.

http://eprints.jcu.edu.au/6377/1/6377_Cashins_et_al_2008.pdf


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm with JP. This all sounds like unsubstantiated fear mongering. There are plenty of things to worry about coming into contact with our frogs. Let's not add new worries on the basis of "money's dirty." Dice are dirty. Film caps are dirty. Lego men are dirty. A 10% bleach solution solves the issue of dirty. The idea that the metals could leach through to the frogs is just ridiculous. 30 seconds is not enough time for a metal coin to cause any problems.


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

andersonii85 said:


> My vote is for dice! To make it standardized we can all use Yahtzee dice. It makes sense. Most people own this game and not even know it. Pull it out of the closet and brush the dust off- grab that dice.


I say LEGOs, everyone loves Legos!,,


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## Steverd (Sep 4, 2011)

senditdonkey said:


> I don't get the dice, tape measure, ruler, bottle cap, pencil, being any better than a coin?.... I mean if you touch it, put in drawer, pet your dog, scratch your privates ...... what's the difference? Is hand sanitizer that got on the bottle cap going to cause a whole new set of probems? I use latex gloves around my vivs both to keep poop and crud off me and keep vivs as clean as possible.. should I be checking my frogs for latex allergies?


You should definitely get latex-free gloves.. 
That's all we use at work anymore. Too many people with latex allergies.


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I think this whole coin conversation is pretty ridiculous. Back before I found this forum I used to add all sorts of stuff from outside into my vivs (moss, unwashed nursery plants, etc) and none of THAT STUFF killed my frogs! To think that the copper or bacteria on a penny could be a danger is such a long shot. Think about it, In order for your frogs to get sick from a penny several unlikely things need to happen; of the BILLIONS of benign bacteria in the world the one on your penny needs to be dangerous to your species of frog, and it needs to be able to survive on a penny, under your cushions or in your pocket (Through the wash a few times) for a few months. after this it needs to be able to jump to your specific species of frog and infect it, In the short amount of time you have it in the viv... Basically it wont happen


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

senditdonkey said:


> I use latex gloves around my vivs both to keep poop and crud off me and keep vivs as clean as possible





MonarchzMan said:


> I won't handle my frogs with latex gloves anymore. That, IMO, is a legitimate risk.





Steverd said:


> You should definitely get latex-free gloves..


Its also very important to note that only powder free gloves should be used because talc (the powder in the gloves) can be harmful to the frogs.

James


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

Steverd said:


> I say LEGOs, everyone loves Legos!,,


Legos come in different sizes.


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## EthanA (Feb 10, 2013)

Just give the coin a quick bleach dip, and a good rinse, and it should be fine?


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## ICS523 (Mar 10, 2012)

Why bother, in my opinion coins just wont hurt your frogs.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

I have used them in the past, but I always wash the coin with soap and water and dry it off really good.


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## oddlot (Jun 28, 2010)

MonarchzMan said:


> I think the same arguments could be made for dice as they could for coins. Personally, I don't buy it, really. I grant that there is the possibility that there could be something dangerous on the coins, but there also could be something dangerous on just about anything you expose to your frogs.
> 
> I'd personally like to see some empirical data to support that coins are a legitimate danger. I think we have enough to worry about in caring for frogs and getting them going without adding another fear if it's not a well supported one.
> 
> Just my $0.02.





I have been slacking on posting this because I've been pretty busy,but for some not concerned about it or think it's not a possibility here is an article for you to read.Note that E-coli can live on coins for up to 11 days and salmonella for several days as well as Shigella, Staphylococcus and Enterococcus.So basically just by exposing the coins to your frogs(and it doesn't have to be long term)it can harm your frogs, although not necessarily probable but very possible.

Money is Dirty so Wash Your Hands! - Georgia-Pacific Professional

Just my $ .25


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## pdfCrazy (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes, I dont think anyone will dispute that money is dirty. Point taken. I'm one who has taken pics of my frogs next to a dime to show their size as froglets. Frogs hop around in soil they've pooped on, bugs, bug poop, rottign vegetation, mold, fungus. Myself, I am not concerned even in the SLGIHTEST about this. Healthy frogs should have a healthy immune system. There is evidence showing that keeping anaimals (and people included) do not develop healthy immune systems WITHOUT having been exposed first to those diseases at some point.



oddlot said:


> I have been slacking on posting this because I've been pretty busy,but for some not concerned about it or think it's not a possibility here is an article for you to read.Note that E-coli can live on coins for up to 11 days and salmonella for several days as well as Shigella, Staphylococcus and Enterococcus.So basically just by exposing the coins to your frogs(and it doesn't have to be long term)it can harm your frogs, although not necessarily probable but very possible.
> 
> Money is Dirty so Wash Your Hands! - Georgia-Pacific Professional
> 
> Just my $ .25


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

I would guess bottle caps would be at least slightly more sanitary. They're used on human food products, one can only hope that's the case.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

pdfCrazy said:


> Yes, I dont think anyone will dispute that money is dirty. Point taken. I'm one who has taken pics of my frogs next to a dime to show their size as froglets. Frogs hop around in soil they've pooped on, bugs, bug poop, rottign vegetation, mold, fungus. Myself, I am not concerned even in the SLGIHTEST about this. Healthy frogs should have a healthy immune system. There is evidence showing that keeping anaimals (and people included) do not develop healthy immune systems WITHOUT having been exposed first to those diseases at some point.


And that's why we didn't care if our kids rolled around in the mud or ate sand from the filthy sand box. They're still here and have kids of their own.

Back to frogs. Unless you're following Zoo QT protocols, fail. It's just not reasonable for most hobbyists. Anyone have a foot bath before entering their frog room?


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Too bad they don't make it out of silver anymore. We wouldn't have such problems.


oddlot said:


> I have been slacking on posting this because I've been pretty busy,but for some not concerned about it or think it's not a possibility here is an article for you to read.Note that E-coli can live on coins for up to 11 days and salmonella for several days as well as Shigella, Staphylococcus and Enterococcus.So basically just by exposing the coins to your frogs(and it doesn't have to be long term)it can harm your frogs, although not necessarily probable but very possible.
> 
> Money is Dirty so Wash Your Hands! - Georgia-Pacific Professional
> 
> Just my $ .25


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