# Sick Frog?



## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Early today I received a new Varadero via overnight FedEx. This frog was sold as a proven two year old female and the seller said it has laid eggs recently. The frog was packed and shipped properly, but I knew there might be a problem as soon as I unpacked it. My first impression is that it is a juvenile. It is very thin and smaller than my Varadero F1 males. I was under the impression that females are normally larger and rounder in the body.

I am concerned about the health of this frog. I have placed it in a quarantine tank, and it is not eating flies or springtails. I am hoping to get a fecal culture to send to Dr. Frye, but so far no poops either. Tonight it got into a film cup and sat in the water for a short while.

After a frog lays eggs, is it possible that it would appear thin? The frog is also very dark (almost all black) on the back half, where I have normally seen more blue in my Varaderos. Does this indicate anything unusual?

I have attached a few photos of the frog. I would appreciate any observations from more experienced members regarding the its apparent health. I would also appreciate any suggestions for getting it to eat.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

That frog does not look good. Did you buy her from someone on this board?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Keep in mind that vendor's feedback has to either be via pm or in the correct forum. 

With that said, the lack of feeding isn't unusual in newly unpacked frogs, however that frog does look thin. Have you contacted the seller yet? 

Ed


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Yes, in response to a WTB ad I placed on this forum.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Yes, I am in contact with the seller.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

froggie too said:


> Yes, I am in contact with the seller.


Okay, sounds like your going the right way. 

Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm not an expert, so, if Ed or someone else smart says something different than me, go with whatever they say 

What I would do, while waiting for more advice or Dr Frye, is keep him in a QT tank with some springs. I don't know if I would stress him out with flies right now. No more than a few, at any rate. Then try to leave him alone and let him settle in and eat.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Suggest a small set up with no disturbances, offering flightless or wingless ff.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I saw pics of this poor skinny frog earlier today. Froggy too is aware of the feedback rules and won't be posting a name here. This was sold to her by a member of this board as a proven female who supposedly laid eggs a few days ago. I told her there's no way this poor frog has laid any eggs recently in it's poor state of health. I advised posting pictures for more opinions so it is not her word verses the sellers word as far as the health of this frog.
In my opinion this frog was/is way to ill to be sold and shipped. She's looking for second opinions to back her claim with the seller.
And of course, help with trying to save her.


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## curlykid (Jan 28, 2011)

maybe the seller wanted to get rid of a runt?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> I saw pics of this poor skinny frog earlier today. Froggy too is aware of the feedback rules and won't be posting a name here. This was sold to her by a member of this board as a proven female who supposedly laid eggs a few days ago. I told her there's no way this poor frog has laid any eggs recently in it's poor state of health. I advised posting pictures for more opinions so it is not her word verses the sellers word as far as the health of this frog.
> In my opinion this frog was/is way to ill to be sold and shipped. She's looking for second opinions to back her claim with the seller.
> And of course, help with trying to save her.


In that case, I think it's safe to say that that frog was in no shape to sell or ship.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I asked Max to check out this Varadero. I did not tell him it was sick. I thought it might be insightful to see if a 12 year old boy could see what kind of horrible shape this poor little guy is in. I find it hard to believe the seller didn't know. Especially after Max's response. Here it is in his own words.


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## frogboy (Sep 25, 2010)

My dad showed me that picture and I immediately began shaking my head. I'm only 12 and I can see that it is way too skinny. He let me look at it for like 5 seconds and then told me to tell him what was wrong. He said to tell him right now, don't study the frog, just quickly say what's wrong. I pointed out how he's way too skinny and his back legs are even wasting away. He just looks like a sick frog all around. It's amazing he's alive at this point.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

At this point, I believe I can work with the seller to resolve issues related to purchase of the frog. In the short term, I would like to focus on returning the frog to health and would appreciate any assistance in that regard.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

froggie too said:


> At this point, I believe I can work with the seller to resolve issues related to purchase of the frog. In the short term, I would like to focus on returning the frog to health and would appreciate any assistance in that regard.


Bill gave some good suggestions on the previous page. 

Ed


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Bill has been raising frogs for 20 or 30 years. I'd read his post and follow his advice. Pumilo and Frogboy have experience with Veraderos, so they would know what to do too.

I've had frogs come to me that were that skinny and I was able to feed them back to health. I did it by letting them fill up on springs with a few flies in case they were willing to eat them. And, importantly, leaving them alone, other than a quick check once a day to make sure they had food and were still hanging in there. I don't think she's a lost cause. A little pitiful right now but I think you can feed her up.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I agree with both Bill and Kris. Small setup, quiet area. Keep springs in there with him/her but not so many you'll stress her. Toss a little piece of fruit in so the springs will congregate there and not stress her out. Bill suggestion of runted flies is very important too. Only a few though, again so you don't stress her. The flies are important beyond just springtails so that you can get some vitamin and calcium dust into her. Even if she tries but can't manage a friut fly right now, at least she gets a mouthful of Repashy Calcium Plus.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks much for the recommendations. For someone relatively new to the hobby, the Dendroboard members are an invalualble resource.

I have her in a 2 gal tank with a glass lid, one plastic plant suctioned to the wall, one film cup with spring water, one spring water bottle cap with a small piece of banana to congregate the FFs, and a small amount of charcoal with springs on it. Paper towel on the bottom. I wll try to resist checking on her every few minutes.

Hopefully this will work.

Kenda


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

If you have any leaves, you might throw some down on the paper towel to give her something to hide under while she stalks her prey and eats. Please keep us updated on how she's doing.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

Will do.

I do have some leaves, and will add some to her tank in the AM.

Kenda


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

froggie too said:


> At this point, I believe I can work with the seller to resolve issues related to purchase of the frog. In the short term, I would like to focus on returning the frog to health and would appreciate any assistance in that regard.


I'm glad to hear that your seller is working with you to make it right. Looking forward to a positive outcome.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

I would place a film canister in there for her to hide in and then place a moderate size leaf over that so it feels secure.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

if it were me i'd refrain from adding springs. they can cause stress in an animal in that state. i might also try feeding melanogaster larvae instead of flies since they dont seem to move around as much, again lessening the risk of stress causing further harm to the animal. if your adding springs or FFs i'd definitely put a "feeding station" in there to keep the bugs in one general area so that the fog can seek refuge elsewhere if needed.

james


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## jbherpin (Oct 16, 2009)

james67 said:


> if it were me i'd refrain from adding springs. they can cause stress in an animal in that state. *i might also try feeding melanogaster larvae instead of flies* since they dont seem to move around as much, again lessening the risk of stress causing further harm to the animal. if your adding springs or FFs i'd definitely put a "feeding station" in there to keep the bugs in one general area so that the fog can seek refuge elsewhere if needed.
> 
> james


I have used this "feeder" for not only darts with great results!... It is good advice.
It will be a great way to add weight fast, and contribute toward a full recovery.
JBear


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

7AM Saturday. She is still alive. Placed leaves and a secound film cup under leaves in her tank. She is on her plastic plant and not moving so far this morning. Still not eating, as far as I can tell. 

I have moved her tank in by one of my males that is singing. Thought his singing might make her feel more comfortable. There is not a lot of traffic and my little "frog dog" does not go in there as much (I call her frog dog because I once had a juvi Patrica escape and she was having s fit and pointing out the frog until I came to look. She will sit on the floor and watch a frog in a viv.)

Kenda


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The lack of traffic can be critical to reducing stress in these critical stages. See for example this study in white's tree frogs RESPONSE OF WHITE’S TREEFROG (LITORIA CAERULE) TO COMMON HOUSEHOLD CAPTIVITY STRESSORS A Report of a Senior Study by Erin M. F If you search the title you can find it in a nice pdf format. 

Ed


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

12:00 p.m. still not eating.


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## froggie too (Nov 6, 2011)

I am happy to report she is doing great. Fecal test negative. Gaining weight. Here are her latest photos (first two "after"; second two "before")


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Nicely done!! She looks like a different frog!


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Good job with that one!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Yay! So good to see.


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