# Shipping woes



## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

I'm interested to find out what everyone else is doing since shipping has gotten so rediculous. I've found that even if you can keep the box size down to 12x12x12, it's still upwards of $55...UPS, FED EX or DHL. Once you get up to 15x15x15 it goes up to $79-$83. I use the molded styrofoam boxes inside a bigger cardboard box. I like there to be some space between the two boxes to allow for hot or cold packs. The last shipment I did was 4lbs. in a 15x15x15 box, but I was billed for 18lbs. because it was over 12x12x12. It was $76.49 via Fed Ex. (Yes, Josh, it was yours...haha).

$7.99 of it was a fuel surcharge, and $2.10 was charged for residential delivery. 

Anyway, I'm going to have to do some digging, I guess to find new boxes to use since I obviously can't use the 15x15x15 anymore...hopefully I can find some smaller styrofoam ones that will still leave enough room for the frogs. 

Anyone do anything that works better? I'm not crazy about the sheet styrofoam.

Thanks,
Kristen


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## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

I use the 12"x9"x6" boxes from Superior, but they do not insulate as well as the molded styrofoam boxes. I would not use them to ship in extreme temps, but I have not had any problems as long as I use a heat pack or ice pack when needed. I can usually ship one this size under $50 using UPS overnight. Fed Ex is about $5 more. I can fit a couple deli cups in this size box.


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## audioandroid (Mar 13, 2005)

Kristen,
i've noticed it too. right now temps are favorable so i try to insulate the box with one layer not two to keep the box size down. it is becoming a pain. i've also found the online estimate services that ups, fedex, etc offer seem useless. you enter the demensions and weight and then go in to ship and the price is $10-20 more than the internet estimated. 

the answer? i've been trying to get frequent shipper cards and discounts at local drop facilities. one place has been giving me a 15% discount each shippment. another has a card where you ship 5 packages you get $5 off the next shippment. you just have to ask for these things.

-Kris


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2006)

Contact DHL. They do a discount for quanity and there prices get much more reasonable. I was looking into starting an online business and researched all of the shippers and they were the best value. There customer service was great and the rates were the best. I don't have the exact numbers, but I remember that if you do over $100 a month it gets a lot cheaper (under $50) and way less then there online quote. They also say next day delivery on standard shipping within 500 miles. I had to open a business acount to get these rates, but it is free and they didn't ask for any business license number. I hope this helps.

AJ


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## *GREASER* (Apr 11, 2004)

Last summerI made a trade with Mark Pulawski. He sent my frog frist and I just repacked the frog I was sending him in the same box and returned it. And if I remember correctly it was only 25$!!! at the post office.


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

USPS is drastically cheaper than any other carrier (often times in the $30-$35 range). They do not gaurantee next day delievery to every zip code though. I'm not sure if this is the case everywhere, but they do not guarantee live arrival to my zip code, but the package gets to my post office the next day, so if I pick up the package at my post office it gets here in one day.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2006)

I thought USPS doesn't ship live orders. Are you just not telling them or am I wrong?


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

You can ship live with USPS (there are some restrictions, but frogs are ok). With Fedex, you need to apply to ship live (I have heard this is a quite extensive process with test packages and such). With DHL, you have to apply, but it is a simple form that you just fax in. You can do it in 5 minutes. I'm not sure on UPS.


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Ok, let's be careful here to not get me in trouble for bringing this up...hahaha! On-line, all shippers seem to be right in line with each other price wise. My point is that with any box larger than 12x12x12, it gets charged the extra weight...so I was wondering what others were doing to avoid getting charged extra. I'm going to check out the smaller boxes that someone mentioned, so maybe that would work.

Now that the issue of whether or not certain companies accept live animals came up, see the sticky about "what shippers you prefer". I go into more detail about an experience I had...the short of it is that USPS uses Fed Ex for overnight packages, and according to USPS and Fed Ex, Fed Ex does not knowingly ship live animals...because the box was marked, my shipment got held up because of this since it had to wait to get on a flight with a commercial airline. So unless there is a way to be certain that USPS accepts live animals and won't get held up, I won't try them again. It seems like within these large operations, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing...you often get 10 different answers from 10 different people.

Kristen


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2006)

Thanks for the clarification. I will say this, when I was checking out DHL, they said that they don't do a weight by volume cost. Meaning that they don't have a set price for a certain size, unlike UPS they just go by weight.


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## josh raysin (Nov 28, 2005)

if you check the locals some shippers like ups deliver next day on ground shipments depending on how far away it is and heavy volume shipping seasons. also usps next day is handled by fed ex and i just got 4 mints from maryland to FL for like $25.25. just some thoughts but i havent shipped any frogs lately. later josh


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

josh raysin said:


> if you check the locals some shippers like ups deliver next day on ground shipments depending on how far away it is and heavy volume shipping seasons. also usps next day is handled by fed ex and i just got 4 mints from maryland to FL for like $25.25. just some thoughts but i havent shipped any frogs lately. later josh


Josh, I assume the box was not marked "live animals" or "live harmless frogs"? Just wondering since this is what held mine up, according to USPS.

Hmmm...just how much trouble can you get in if you don't mark the box with LIVE frogs?

Kristen


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Do you have to mark the box "live frogs"? My boxes are marked "perishable" and "this side up". The post office I go to knows when I send out 2 day (priority) packages I'm sending flies or springtails and when I send over-night I'm sending frogs. The lady at the counter knows what I'm shipping and never marks on the box what I'm shipping. I can't see that they would care as long as it doesn't break the rules.

I didn't know DHL charges extra for bigger boxes. I always ship with the 12" X 12" X 9" boxes and I print my labels online and leave the size boxes blank. I have to drive over 45 minutes to the nearest office max to ship my boxes though.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2006)

DHL Doesn't. Other shipper do. Other shippers have an estimated weight for a certain size box and they charge you that weight, even if it is full of feathers. Sorry if I didn't write that right.


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## hoyta (Jan 18, 2006)

*ups*

i had a problem with ups last week-i had live harmless animals on the box,and they wouldn't take it... she pointed to a sign on the wall saying that shipping live animals was prohibited.kinda weird,since i had received the box from kris(through ups) two weeks before.i have shipped usps alot in the past,and never ran into any problems.just a thought....


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Josh, I'm not sure if marking the box is required or not...somewhere along the line, I heard it was...then again, I know of many times that they are not marked and everything was fine. I'm just wondering if you get caught, just how much trouble you get in...that is, if it is a requirement.

AJ D., I actually think DHL also charges more for the larger boxes...at least according to their rate calculators. A little while ago, I was checking to see if all the shippers were about the same going by their online prices and the 12" cube was $58 something while the 15"cube was $80 something. Unless, of course, those calculators are way off. 

Highway robbery... :lol: 

Kristen


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

I'm looking at my DHL agreement to ship "small live animals" right now. It doesn't mention anywhere in the terms that I have to mark the box with what I have inside. Pretty much there are 5 terms.

Number 3 states: Customer shall package all shipmetns of live animals to ensure safe transportation in handling and safegaurd the integrity of the shipments. Customer acknowledges that the shipments do not require and will not receive any temperature controls, special routing, distinctive labeling, or protective handling by DHL.

Seems like if they required marking the package with live frogs inside, they would have put it in terms.[/quote]


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

there is also a good poll on this topic here:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12523

I agree shipping is nuts though last spring i was shipping for about $35 or so and by fall it was over $55.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2006)

Personally, I wouldn't trust the online quotes. Once you open your account with DHL the prices change. If it is a real concern, call and talk to a rep. They can help you with more accurate quotes.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

One other thing usps has going for it (other than being half the price) is that the online calculator is accurate, as they don't charge dimensional weight.
For those that do charge dimensional, if a 12x12x12 weighing 5 pounds costs the same as a 12x12x12 weighing say 8 lbs, you could exploit that by packing gel packs around the animals. 
Sure, it is yet another expense, but I've done tests, and the gel packs stabilize temps dramaticly, but they are heavy, at 8 oz for a 6x5x.5" pack.
Also, anyone know how many packages you have to send via X carrier to get a better rate?


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Josh, I was referring to USPS requiring the package to be marked...I'm not sure if this is the case, so that is why I was asking if one would get in trouble if they were not marked as I've "heard" that they must be marked. 

I certainly hope the online calculators are off...I just did the following using the DHL one:

From FL to VA (the place I last shipped)
4lbs, 12x12x12 $58.37 4lbs, 15x15x15 $83.33

From FL to CA
4lbs, 12x12x12 $83.33 4lbs, 15x15x15 $104.06

Oh dear...I think I'll try DHL next time, but I will be calling ahead of time before I show up at the DHL location with frogs all packed up and person waiting on the other end for frogs. Can you imagine if they said, "that will be $104"?!?! hahaha

Kristen


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

I just got some quotes through DHL. 4 LBS from Michigan to California is $52.99. I didn't enter any dimensions in (and I never do when shipping through DHL). Try it again Kristen without the dimensions on it. I do not think they are necessary. I know if you choose their packaging, you have to enter in the dimensions. Maybe it is double charging you?


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

pastorjosh said:


> I know if you choose their packaging, you have to enter in the dimensions. Maybe it is double charging you?


Actually, when I did it if you choose DHL packaging it does not ask for dimensions...when you select "your packaging" it requires you to put in dimensions. 

When I did it, I selected "your packaging" and then entered the different dimensions to get what I posted above. 

Kristen


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Actually, you do not have to enter in the dimensions in the rate calculator or when you print off a label. Check out http://www.dhl-usa.com/resources/DHL%20 ... 20v6.0.pdf

According to this, there is no charge other than weight charges unless the package is very large.

I have printed shipping labels for DHL online and also just went to the local office max (almost an hour away) and never paid over $50 but then again, maybe I just get lucky on the box size since I use the 12" by 12" by 9".


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Ok, I phrased that wrong...it doesn't *require* the dimensions if you select your packaging, but it allows you to enter them...I did do it without entering them and it did come out much less. Strange...

My thinking was that the more information they have, the more accurate the quote would be...guess not, huh? 

Do you have molded styrofoam boxes that fit in 12x12x9 boxes? Or is that with the sheet styrofoam? I guess I need to start looking for some smaller boxes AND give DHL a try.

Fed Ex for sure charges extra for a bigger box...found that out the hard way $76 later...I only charged $55 for shipping. Oh well....

Kristen


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## bluedart (Sep 5, 2005)

Whoa! I didn't know it cost that much! Now I feel bad... I should have given you more money! I'll send you a froglet or something!


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2006)

For me the rate droped after shipping $100 or more a month. That was just what I estimated, so that was the quote I got. They may have discounts at less then that, but when you are shipping animals $100 is only 2 or 3 shipments. Some of the quotes I got were as low as $25 and I think cross country was in the $30 range.


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## defaced (May 23, 2005)

> Or is that with the sheet styrofoam? I guess I need to start looking for some smaller boxes AND give DHL a try.


How about making your own syrofoam boxes out of sheet styrofoam.

Dimentional weight is a bitch. Found that out by shipping a guitar the other week.



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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

I just prefer the molded styrofoam boxes when the temps are less than ideal. They seem to keep temps more stable.

Thanks, though.

Kristen


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## bgexotics (Feb 24, 2004)

You have to love how a company's policy on shipping live animals varies depending on who you talk to. DHL, Fed Ex, UPS, and USPS all will ship amphibians. Fed Ex requires you to jump through hoops if you want to ship snakes but not amphibians. I have found it is best to print your labels online and find a local place that does not mind accepting live shipments. My local Office Depot lets me drop off boxes which is great since their UPS pick-up is around 6 or 7 PM letting me wait until later in the day to pack and drop off any shipments. 

It is a federal law (Lacey Act) that requires you to not only label the box as a live shipment, but also list the common and latin names of the contents. I label the box as "Live Amphibians" and somewhere in small writing list the type of frog and latin name. I would not recommend writing "Poison Dart Frog" on the box.


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## JWerner (Feb 17, 2004)

Making a box in a box design using 1" styrofoam panels from Home Depot works just fine and does not cost much at all. I use 40 hr heat packs in the space between boxes, not inside with the frogs. At times I have even added digital min/max thermometers to my boxes to get the high/low temps during transit....USPS Express works fine. Been using it about 10 years with out problem.....


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

I just got 10 frogs from an importer in Florida and he sent them in one of the superior boxes (3/4" styrofoam lined box). No double box or anything. Just one 40 hour heat pack. The temp got down to 20 degrees last night. All arrived cold, but are all fine now.


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Jon, then here is a question for you since you have used USPS frequently...do you mark LIVE ANIMALS or something to that effect on the box? Many shipments that I have sent, received or even heard about that were late via USPS were marked appropriately on the box. I was told that they use another company for overnight that does not ship live...so they have to make arrangements to put it on a commercial airline. 

Also, has USPS express *always* arrived the next day? It says to "most" locations it will arrive the next day...I guess they would tell you ahead of time if that did not apply to the location to which you were sending?

Josh, was the heat pack in the same box with the frogs? If so, was it seperated by anything?

Guess it's all about trying to figure out what has worked best for most people.

Kristen


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

From what I read on the lacey act it is just for imports... not internal shipping.

http://www.monkeymaddness.com/laws/lacey.html

http://www.fws.gov/laws/lawsdigest/lacey.html


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## joshsfrogs (May 6, 2004)

Kristen,

The heat pack was in with the frogs seperated by a layer of newspaper (like 5-7 sheets thick).


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2006)

trinacliff said:


> ...do you mark LIVE ANIMALS or something to that effect on the box? Many shipments that I have sent, received or even heard about that were late via USPS were marked appropriately on the box. I was told that they use another company for overnight that does not ship live...so they have to make arrangements to put it on a commercial airline.


Kristen,

In my experience with receiving an overnight shipment through usps, The box was labeled "Perishable." It arrived on time with no problems.
This is what is posted on the website:
Perishable Items
Some items require special packaging or special permission to be mailed. Call 1·800·ASK·USPS or visit your Post Office to find out how to mail these items:
Live animals
Fresh fruits and vegetables
Plants



trinacliff said:


> Also, has USPS express *always* arrived the next day? It says to "most" locations it will arrive the next day...I guess they would tell you ahead of time if that did not apply to the location to which you were sending?


On there on-line calculator, after you click "Calculate Domestic Postage", and select "package" and enter the weight and zip's, it will show the rates of the different services. On "Express" there will be a link under the "Speed" column "Overnight to most areas". This will take you to a new page that will check the "guaranteed delivery time" and tell you when and where to drop off, and when the package will arrive at the destination.

Orlando Fl. to Springfield IL. shows that if dropped off at 5pm. Would be able to be picked up at the next day at 3pm for $18.80. A lot of other locations of departure, that I have checked, will be able to be picked up at 10am, next day.



trinacliff said:


> Guess it's all about trying to figure out what has worked best for most people.
> 
> Kristen


It seems like posting "Live Animals" on the box is the major downfall of some services, so it would be nice to determine if this is actually required.


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## josh raysin (Nov 28, 2005)

a lady at the post office told me they could not ship frogs. she showed me a chart of animals they do and do not ship. aparently chickens and snakes are ok but no amphibians. maybe no snakes either, hmm its as a week ago...anyway it had several animal pics and how they could be shipped if at all. also dont flip priority boxes inside out. they charged the recipient priority price for ground shipping. :roll: later josh


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Damn those counter people and their careless placing of the shipping label...always seems to get placed right over the contents of the box. I HATE when they do that! :wink: 

Mike
http://www.snmreptiles.com


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

What I hate is when you go in one week ask a Q, then go in next week and find out the other person didn't know what they were talking about, and vice/versa....
For example, last time I shipped, I was told they couldn't hold a package at the post office for pickup...sounds like BS to me...


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Brian, thats funny b/c I just did that with a package from Brian's Tropicals. I had him ship it to the post office and told them to hold it. Then I went in there in person the day before it was to arrive and told them where it was coming from and that it was addressed to me and that it needed to be held. They had no problem doing it. They just wanted me to come in person to let them know.

Oddly, when I got the box, the lady at the counter wanted to see what it was. So I opened the box and showed her the D. intermedius and she was like, "Wow! Thats so cute!!" Not once did she say that frogs aren't allowed to be shipped or anything like that.


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