# Superblue auratus vs Highland auratus



## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Are these the same thing? Are Superblues really highland auratus and Sean Stewart calls em highland while everyone else calls em Superblues? I don't know if they are different localities or not so I am curious if anyone can talk about the differences if there are any...


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

What I was told when I was looking into the family tree of my T+B auratus, is that Sean's highlands were aquired from european breeders, whereas the T+B, G+B, Super blue, whatever, are from direct panama imports.


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

I just looked at the pictures of sean's highland auratus that he just posted, and my superblues don't look like that. Mine don't have the silver coloring, they are about a year old. Maybe they will get lighter as they get older. We got them from Aaron. Maybe he will chime in. He used to have an explanation on them on his site when he still had these frogs. These pictures don't show the color very well but the one on the left is more blue and the one of the right is more turquoise, but they came from the same parents.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Hmm... interesting. I guess I'm trying to find out if these are basically the same thing, just from different sources. I know Superblues go for about $50 each while the highlands go for about $100 or so, so curious if the highlands really are different enough to warrant being twice as much.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

It`s really up to the buyer. My last 3 super blues went for 3/$75.
My breeders were silver/purple to bronze/brown depending on temps. 
Does the little difference in color warrant that much extra in price? If people pay it I guess it does. If they throw 100% animals that look exactly like the adults, maybe.
that`s a question that everyone has to answer for themselves.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

So basically what you are saying is that there is not really a big difference? I don't really care about the money per se, but it doesn't make sense to me to spend twice as much for the same thing if that's what they are...


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## SeaDuck (Nov 8, 2006)

There is a big difference. Take a look as Sean's site for pictures of the adults. The picture above is a juvi. The brown fades to silver with just a darker outline of brown/bronze and silver is not temperature dependant. There also seems to be quite a size difference with the highlands being much larger. The girls get huge. Robert


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

That's kinda my point... Stacey's are subadults and probably haven't gotten their true color yet. I have seen Sean's pics and even he says that as they grow to adults the gain the silvery color and the blue changes as well, which is almost verbatim what I have heard everyone say about the Superblues. I love Stacey's pics, but to use them to show the differences doesn't really work. If you showed me pics of some of Seans stock at the same age and there were vast differences I would be a little more accepting of the difference. The size difference is interesting though... haven't heard one way or the other on the Superblues. Don't take my questions and rebuttals wrong, I am just trying to look at these with a critical eye and piece out what the differences are and if there really are any significant differences. Don't get me wrong, I would never mix the morphs, but curious as to how this all shakes out...


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

I will look when I get home at the ages they were in those pictures and I will try to take some more current ones. They are over a year old and breeding. So, I consider them to be adults, not juvies to subadults. But I guess those terms can vary from person to person. Maybe Sean will have some pictures of his highlands from the same ages as mine and we can post comparisons for you Stace.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Seaduck, have you seen adult super blues? Their no El Cope but they are pretty big.
As I said, it`s up to people to decide for themselves if the differences, if there are any, are enough to warrant the difference in price.
If they throw 100% the same looking frogs as the adults they may be different. We have no collection data from the super blues.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Come on people, I wrote about this in the caresheet and it doesn't even get read  

"'Highland Bronze' - Evidently from the east Atlantic Coast of Panama from higher elevations, this morph was imported from Europe (where it known as 'Panamaspecial'). A turquoise and bronze morph, these animals can range from turquoise to blue animals with bronze to very pale bronze/silver backgrounds (4). This morph evidently may need slightly cooler temperatures due to the higher elevations in which it is found in the wild, and is still rare in the hobby. " The (4) refers to Sean's page, and I'm specifically talking about Sean's imported bronzes.

From the Panama FRs... "'Turquoise' - AKA blue/green, teal. These animals range from pure green to a bright blue (tho rarely as deep a blue as the 'Blue' form) on a background of black to bronze, and the blue coloration can vary in intensity in individual animals over time. These frogs morph out with black backgrounds, which may stay black or lighten to a pale bronze as they age. Patterns range from mostly turquoise with little bronze, to mostly bronze animals with almost reticulated patterns. These animals can produced the whole range of colors (green, turquoise, blue, black, bronze, patterning) in a clutch, tho some lines tend to produce certain characteristics more than others - such as the Super Blue line which produces blue animals with more bronze with more regularity than other lines. Blue and Bronze are a similar case, being very blue animals from this morph, and do not breed this coloration true, showing the typical 'Turquoise' range of clutch color and pattern, tho they likely have a higher chance of producing more blue animals. "

Super Blues are just a line bred form of the Turquoises when the bluest and bronzest animals were bred together... which is oddly parallel to the "blue and bronzes" which are also line bred for the same exact thing (talk to Patrick on that one since he's the one that started that). The bronzes coming in from the Panama FRs are LOWLAND bronzes. These animals also show much more variation than the Highland Bronzes... if you want an animal that is going to be a crazy looking bronze after it's full grown, get Seans Highlands. The various turquoises throw a range of bronzes and blue/greens so you're never totally sure what you'll end up with.

In the case of ANY bronze, they will morph black, and the markings will gradually fade. Generally around 2 years of age you're going to see what the basic bronzing level will be even tho the color may change a little after that... but if your frog is just brown, its not going to magically go silver after around 2 years. Sean's frogs have continued to get paler as they aged, but the basic coloration was set around 2.


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## IN2DEEP (Aug 7, 2007)

Bro, it was a good write up and I appreciate you taking the time to do so. I'm thinking the information on the bronze coloring variation is probably the best way to distinguish the morphs apart. The temperature/elevation part might be slightly inacurate. Since these were gonna be my first frogs I made sure my viv was under 80F and humidity over 90%. When I got my "super blues" from Marcus, he told me to bring the temps down to 65-75F and that humidy wasn't much of an issue (mist once a week or 2, just keep it over 60%). These would surely be from a higher elevation, right? He did'nt have a surplus of info on them at that time. He did have a pair of breeders avaliable and I wasn't sure I wanted to buy a brown frog, but I thought it would be neat watching them change, so I got some juvies with neat patterns. I would like to know more about the size differences. I got 3 frogs. They are pretty good size, but I don't see the largest one much since I added the leaf litter. I also would like to see a more current pic of the ones that kyle1745 has.


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## flyangler18 (Oct 26, 2007)

That 'bro' is a 'sis'


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I is a chica  I should probably put that in my sig... Hi, my name is Corey, I like little brown frogs, and yes... I'm female.

80 is high for just about any PDF, and unless you were keeping basti pumilio, I'd recomend bringing it down. Think of it this way... under the canopy in a lowland rainforest, 70-75 is pretty comfy. Most of the frogs stay under the canopy where it stays consistantly this temp, and in areas where the canopy is broken and the light gets in, the temps can soar up to 90+... and you don't usually find PDFs except for some hardy populations of pumilio. In Costa Rica, I heard pumilio all over the place, even when I was getting heat stroke in the open sun (these were black jeans near Limon). Auratus were not found until I was much deeper into cooler rainforest.

As for highlands... it can get freaking COLD! Cloud forest involved temps in the 60s for the day and down even colder when the sun went down... my cloud forest experiences involved fleece and staying in a cabin because it would get too cold for the gear we packed in our packs to camp outside. Quetzels like it cold!

The highland auratus are auratus that like it on the colder range of the species temp range... I'd keep them around a high of 70, with the lowlands taking temps to a high up around 75.

Not a huge size difference between the two, and younger animals can probably not be differenciated easily by the bronze. Honestly, I've seen some extreme super blues that have the bronze close to what Sean's highlands have, but those are exceptions where in the highlands it's closer to a rule. If you want a chance at some crazy bronzes... get the super blues. If you definately want your frogs to be a crazy bronze and have the lower temps... get the highlands. Can't say I know of anyone being disapointed...


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## jeffreyvmd (Oct 16, 2004)

*auratus*

corey, I have a question about size. I have heard from a few people who have seen the green and bronze in panama said that there was a definite difference in size depending upon location. Did you see this also. I am just curious because I have seen a difference in the imports from 2002. ide of the country. I know that elevation can have effects on size, but do you know or see a difference in the pacific vs atlantic side of the country. Thanks


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

We don't know the localities of any of the Panama FR auratus. There was a lot of work done to get locality info for the pumilio, but unfortunately this hasn't been done for the auratus.

There were some extremely large turquoise and bronze auratus that came in, and I'm not sure what happened to them. I know one person who still has an original group, but they aren't breeding. They were the definition of big and bold, but it's unknown how they related to the other frogs brought in, and were likely interbred. These animals were called "microspots" for the small spots of bronze they had, but this didn't breed true.


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## UmbraSprite (Mar 2, 2007)

Tiny bit off topic...but the auratus found on the mainland coast of the Bocas del Toro region are....


HUGE


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## IN2DEEP (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks for the info Corey. Sorry I called you bro, same thing happens to me, my name is Casey and I'm a guy.


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

I had a freshmen roomate named Kyle... we were very nervous to call each other because we both thought they messed up big time and had us rooming with a guy... I think they did it on purpose! I've just decided I should marry a guy with a name people would assume was female so we could just mess with people all the time.

It's funny if I give my name in person (where they can see I'm a girl) they always think I say Casey or Carey. Drives me nuts (because I really like my name!).


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Yeah, well, try having a name like Stace and being a guy.... :? ... thanks Mom and Dad... :roll:


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## Abbathx (Aug 15, 2007)

my turquoise & bronze are huge biggest PDF i have.


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## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

Here is a picture from today of my male super blue. They are 1.5 years old now. They have gotten bolder since they started breeding. I was able to get in the tank tonight and trim back all the wandering jew and take this picture and he never moved. I can't wait to see our first little super blue froglet.


BTW, the pictures I posted in the other post were taken when the frogs were about 10 months old. Maybe Sean can post some pictures of his frogs around the same ages to compare.


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

He looks great! I doubt Sean will post as I haven't ever seen him really post on here except on the classifieds, but hopefully I am wrong as I would like to see a few more than just the 2 pics on his site...


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

If you look at Sean's gallery the "bronze" auratus are the highland bronzes that are younger but I don't know the age. Since Sean is both a doctor and a father he doesn't have a lot of time to surf around on here :roll: I'll have to dig up my highland pics.


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