# 166 gallon build thread



## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

I have a pretty hectic schedule so you'll have to bear with me. Goal is to have build finished by end of the year. This is my wife's birthday present. She's always loved PDF's so I figure number 40 (sorry hun), would be a worthy number to build one. 

I originally was going to go with an Exo 36x18x36 build (which is currently sitting in my garage), but at last minute switched to having Coop build me a 48 x 20 x 40 viv instead. Here is the current equipment list. 

Lighting
30" quad led light (ordered for the Exo unfortunately). 
Three jungle dawn led spotlights 

Misting
Mistking Ultimate system with Hygrometer

Stand and canopy will be custom built by me. It will be a one piece design with notched sides to allow for off angle viewing. 

Already have most all of the supplies from Neherp.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Looking for some input as I start to mock things up. 

I found a really nice 30" tall piece of cork round on ebay. I'm going to cut it in half lengthwise and mount to background. 









I also have a large stump I've been hanging on to for quite some time hoping to use it on a future viv project. It's pretty thick so I'm going to cut it in half with my sawzall and probably re angle a couple lower limbs to get it to sit lower on the ground. 









Just wondering if you think this throws off the scale of everything. It seems to flow pretty nice, and should take up a bit less space once I cut the back off.


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## taylorwebbed (Feb 17, 2014)

super excited to see more!


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

OK, I think I have the basic layout on what I want to shoot for. My wife really wants a water feature and being an aquarium nut I'd like to combine a Paludarium style build into this. It should work seeing as I have a decent amount of real estate to work with. 

I've read through dozens of threads regarding water feature horror stories; the biggest being the separation of water and land. It's almost impossible to keep things totally separate so I think I have a design that should accomplish both? 

Please excuse the rudimentary paint shop drawings lol. They are fairly quick and easy as getting the point across. 

In order to try and keep the splashing to a minimum, I have decided to build a drip wall directly over the water feature. The right side will butt up against my stump, leaving only the side directly to the left to deal with. The stump itself will extend all the way into the water. Parts of the stump will raise out of the water and hover over the top of the land. This will add to the realism as well as make for some climbing escape areas. Of course the land mass will taper into the water as well. 

I am using great stuff for most of the background with pond foam being used specifically for the drip wall and on either side. I will be attaching the slate pieces to the back wall along with some cork bark. This will facilitate some moss growth. The drip wall will be on a timer for about 8 hrs a day. That way if there is any inadvertent contact with land it will have time to dry out a bit. 

Directly above the drip wall/tree I will be attaching eggcrate to the ceiling. I will use this to attach some vines to as well as block out some light providing a more natural transition across the viv. I will have some lower light plants on this side with the higher light plants underneath the 40watt spots. 

The tank will be drilled with a sump system employed. The water feature will be divided from the leach through water under the land. There will a drain to another sump for the land side. This will be emptied and discarded periodically. 

Opinions or input is welcome.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Wow nice mockup! This Coop guy sounds pretty nice! Make sure to bypass the Greatstuff and get black Pont foam.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

TheCoop said:


> Wow nice mockup! This Coop guy sounds pretty nice! Make sure to bypass the Greatstuff and get black Pont foam.


LOL. Man, I'll be recommending you till the end of time. You are truly an inspiration to the hobby. If you ever decide to build a dedicated theater, maybe I can return the favor. 

I'll be using greatstuff for about 2/3 of the build (over the land mass) and using the pond foam on either side of the drip wall and above the water feature. There is so much real estate to cover I'm trying not to use them to do a whole tank at over twice the price per can. If this is a bad idea I'm all ears however. 

I'm also curious how deep you'd recommend making the water area. I was thinking 7" deep should be plenty for some nano fish like killis, tetras, etc. This will equate to roughly 11 gallons before substrate and tree roots. The water will be heated in the sump below the tank.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Hang on for some more awesome paint shop drawings. 

Mock up of my stand/canopy.


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

is there a difference between great stuff and the pond foam?


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

tongo said:


> is there a difference between great stuff and the pond foam?


Yeah, one's black and one's yellow. 

Great Stuff is a closed cell foam which won't absorb moisture but I wouldn't trust it indefinitely in a submerged/overly damp location. The pond foam is designed to be used under water with no consequences. I trust the longevity much more for water features and such.

That being said, pond foam is also twice the price; so when building larger vivs I'd use the great stuff everywhere it makes sense.


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## tongo (Jul 29, 2007)

Ha! Will be starting my build soon as well. I picked up my 135 gallon from Brad and saw your tank sitting in the garage. Can't wait to see what you do with this beast.

I have always used regular great stuff in my build, just wanting to see the benefits of the pond and foam.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

tongo said:


> I picked up my 135 gallon from Brad and saw your tank sitting in the garage. Can't wait to see what you do with this beast.


Unfortunately that one wasn't mine. Mine is next in line to get built. It will be pretty close to that one.


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Actually T that was Chris's Viv if you were talking about the crazy 4' tall monster at the base of my build table. 

Another note about GreatStuff vs Black Pond foam, pond foam lays down very solid with minimal air gap which makes it much easier to carve and not open up giant cavers like GreatStuff when carved.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

TheCoop;2767498
Another note about GreatStuff vs Black Pond foam said:


> Good point Brad. You can get the GS to lay down pretty nice but it takes some skill.
> 
> The more research I am doing; the more I'm leaning towards minimal GS'ing and more cork/hardscape.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Bulkhead locations. 

1) Left location will drain to it's own tank. This will be located under the false bottom on the land side. 

2) Output to pond for water movement

3) Return to sump 

4) Output to water feature

From research and memory a 3/4" bulkhead will flow 600 plus gallons per hour on gravity alone. Assuming it gets partially plugged by junk it should still easily outflow the inputs. That also should make it pretty silent with water running straight down the sides, so no air gurgling. The water feature will be right around 12 gallons in tank with 3 gallons in sump, for a total of 15 gallons in system. Based on stocking smaller fish (tetras, rasbora) I'm going to keep the direct tank flow on the low side. I'm not sure at this point on how much flow I'll need down my water feature to look good. Any input here would help but I'm guessing about 50 gallons per hour should be plenty? I'll adjust the output directly into the pond to suit my needs. This will probably be choked down a bit. 

Tank size has also been increased to 175 gallons.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Well I settle on the inhabitants that are going in there. It was a huge bonus that my wife loved the coloring as well. 

Epipedobates anthonyi wins the vote. I feel really good about these guys seeing as they are actually at home around water features. I feel much better creating something that both my wife, and the frogs will enjoy with as little stress as possible.


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## tcmfish (Oct 22, 2016)

A 1" pipe will gravity feed 600 gph. Not sure if that changes your plan. Reefcentral used to have a calculator for pipe size and amount of water it could gravity feed.

I am also in the process of a paludarium, 220 size. I don't have fancy wood pieces like you yet, but think I have a way to separate land water.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

tcmfish said:


> A 1" pipe will gravity feed 600 gph. Not sure if that changes your plan. Reefcentral used to have a calculator for pipe size and amount of water it could gravity feed.
> 
> I am also in the process of a paludarium, 220 size. I don't have fancy wood pieces like you yet, but think I have a way to separate land water.


Thanks. That's what a 40 yr old memory gets you lol. 

3/4" will be more than enough still. The most I would possibly turnover would be 150 or so; so well below the threshold of a 3/4" pipe.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Alter Ego Trip said:


> Yeah, one's black and one's yellow.
> 
> Great Stuff is a closed cell foam which won't absorb moisture but I wouldn't trust it indefinitely in a submerged/overly damp location. The pond foam is designed to be used under water with no consequences. I trust the longevity much more for water features and such.
> 
> That being said, pond foam is also twice the price; so when building larger vivs I'd use the great stuff everywhere it makes sense.


If I'm not mistaken, both brands are expanding PU foam, and therefore open-cell. GS lasts just fine submerged, or exposed to constant moisture. It deteriorates more readily when kept hot and dry, or exposed to UV.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Dane said:


> If I'm not mistaken, both brands are expanding PU foam, and therefore open-cell. GS lasts just fine submerged, or exposed to constant moisture. It deteriorates more readily when kept hot and dry, or exposed to UV.


You're mistaken, it's closed cell.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Alter Ego Trip said:


> You're mistaken, it's closed cell.


You may be right, but I know that both cell types are available as spray-able PU foam.

Edit: My comment on the durability of regular GS still stands.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Dane said:


> You may be right, but I know that both cell types are available as spray-able PU foam.
> 
> Edit: My comment on the durability of regular GS still stands.


You definitely don't want an open cell foam anywhere near a damp environment. Think of open cell like a sponge, and closed cell like a rock. I'm sure you can imagine which one would not be recommended in a viv. 

I also concur on UV breakdown on regular GS. When using outdoors it needs a protective coating. This really is no concern in a viv environment, especially when coated with silicone. 

The pond foam is UV resistant however and is designed specifically for outdoor/underwater continuous use. Hence the reason for the higher cost. Spend once or.....................

Back on track with the viv. I'm sure Brad is ready to kill me as I made a last minute change to the build and omitted the lower vent opening. I just figured it would be too distracting when viewing the water feature. Time to cut more glass.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

I'm familiar with the properties of each type, but thanks. As long as you can facilitate water movement through the open pores, and not compromise the structural stability, wouldn't an open cell background act as one giant biofilter? Isn't that part of the benefit of epiweb and other wicking background materials?


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Dane said:


> I'm familiar with the properties of each type, but thanks. As long as you can facilitate water movement through the open pores, and not compromise the structural stability, wouldn't an open cell background act as one giant biofilter? Isn't that part of the benefit of epiweb and other wicking background materials?


I personally think the latter has better long term sustainability than open cell foam. I'm no expert, but am not willing to be the guinea pig either.


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## Alter Ego Trip (Oct 23, 2011)

Well it's been a long time since the last update but I received my Coop built viv in the other day. With the exception of UPS damaging it; it came in without a hitch. 

I really don't think I can give Brad enough props for his professionalism. He really went out of his way to help with shipping and a million other things along the way. You don't see his kind of ethics very often in today's world.


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