# How does Dart Frog Connection have 3 Times the Votes as Josh's Frogs for Breeder of t



## that Frog Guy (May 13, 2012)

How does Dart Frog Connection have 3 Times the Votes as Josh's Frogs for Breeder of the Year Award?

2013 | The Reptile Report

I mean wasn't this guy considered a Menace to the Hobby not to Long Ago on this Forum?


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

Even more importantly, why is Understory in the bottom half!?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I know it's hard to believe (I joke ... ) - but "we" are not the frog hobby in whole.

s


that Frog Guy said:


> How does Dart Frog Connection have 3 Times the Votes as Josh's Frogs for Breeder of the Year Award?
> 
> 2013 | The Reptile Report
> 
> I mean wasn't this guy considered a Menace to the Hobby not to Long Ago on this Forum?


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

Yeah. I wouldn't put Josh's Frogs up there either. Not for any negative reason, but simply because of everything Understory does. They should be running away with this award. Shawn (The frog whisperer) deserves more votes than he's gotten as well. Brad and Marta (Dendrobati) are the only ones in contention of the few that deserve it. So, let's just throw our support behind them and help make sure someone deserving gets it.


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## Trickishleaf (Jun 29, 2012)

So true! I hadn't really looked at the voting, and was shocked to see the numbers. I voted for Brad and Marta because they're ahead and I think they're awesome! I wanted to vote for Understory too, but didn't wanna chance DFC winning.


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Trickishleaf said:


> So true! I hadn't really looked at the voting, and was shocked to see the numbers. I voted for Brad and Marta because they're ahead and I think they're awesome! I wanted to vote for Understory too, but didn't wanna chance DFC winning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think you can vote for both


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

You can vote for as many people as you'd like. Your vote isn't limited to one person/company per day.


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## Paul G (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm sure it has a lot to do with reptile people (which out number PDF hobbyists by a very large number I'm sure.) voting in every category and those people not knowing much about the PDF hobby. DFC has over 50K "Likes" on FB and I have noticed most of the friends on my FB that follow DFC are reptile people that are not really involved in the PDF community.



that Frog Guy said:


> How does Dart Frog Connection have 3 Times the Votes as Josh's Frogs for Breeder of the Year Award?
> 
> 2013 | The Reptile Report
> 
> I mean wasn't this guy considered a Menace to the Hobby not to Long Ago on this Forum?


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## gturmindright (Mar 15, 2006)

Joshs definitely at least deserves a shot at online store of year. They also have cage manufacturer of the year.

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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

This reminds me of a Mayoral election in Chicago. As they say there, vote early, vote often.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I would think if everyone knew all of the circumstances Understory would win hands down, producing enough quantities of Peruvian frogs new to the hobby on a regular basis and being the conduit of similar programs in other countries. Outside of that I think Mike Novy is extremely underestimated here as he crosses so many lines in amphibian breeding. Several good names on the list, Jon I may vote often and for different people each time.


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## ecichlid (Dec 26, 2012)

You can vote for multiple people each time.

Maybe someone could ask what their nomination process is so that this does not happen next year.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Placed my votes for Dendrobati and UE, will continue to do so until voting ends. Looks like Brad and Marta have a good chance of winning it now!


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade...but how meaningful is it when you can vote every day??? But that doesn't mean I won't...


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

What's the point of this competition, and who is promoting it?


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## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

I'd imagine DFC got that many votes the same way as they got 58,000+ likes on Facebook ...


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## JayMillz (Jun 27, 2012)

Has DFC even been open for a full year? I'm shocked that DFW isn't on that list with all of the new shit they have brought to the table recently.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Paul G said:


> I'm sure it has a lot to do with reptile people (which out number PDF hobbyists by a very large number I'm sure.) voting in every category and those people not knowing much about the PDF hobby. DFC has over 50K "Likes" on FB and I have noticed most of the friends on my FB that follow DFC are reptile people that are not really involved in the PDF community.





edwardsatc said:


> I'd imagine DFC got that many votes the same way as they got 58,000+ likes on Facebook ...


^This.... All marketing and not based on actual contribution to the hobby. To be fair, as far as I know they have kept their nose pretty clean since all the drama blew up and kudos to them for that, but Breeder of the year because of their massive social media ad campaign? ...nah I'm not in favor of that. 

I'd rather see Josh, sports_doc, understory etc..etc.. win.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

Why is Mike Novy not at the top? he has been breeding so many species of frogs for many years it boggles the mind. Tree and Dart frog included.Sadly I think this has turned into a popularity and drama contest.


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## Ghost vivs (Sep 26, 2010)

Couldn't have said it better.

Casper




billschwinn said:


> Why is Mike Novy not at the top? he has been breeding so many species of frogs for many years it boggles the mind. Tree and Dart frog included.Sadly I think this has turned into a popularity and drama contest.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

They always are - which is why I want nothing to do with it (except for the fact that DFC might come out on top - that got my attention).

s


billschwinn said:


> Why is Mike Novy not at the top? he has been breeding so many species of frogs for many years it boggles the mind. Tree and Dart frog included.Sadly I think this has turned into a popularity and drama contest.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

markpulawski said:


> I would think if everyone knew all of the circumstances Understory would win hands down, producing enough quantities of Peruvian frogs new to the hobby on a regular basis and being the conduit of similar programs in other countries. Outside of that I think Mike Novy is extremely underestimated here as he crosses so many lines in amphibian breeding. Several good names on the list, Jon I may vote often and for different people each time.


I couldn't agree more. My reference to the Chicago Mayoral election was really tied to how DFC was getting their votes. They are several other more qualified candidates than DFC on that list...IMO *ALL* the other candidates.


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## The Dendrobatidae Project (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't have any experience with DFC or Josh's Frogs but I bought a group of R. summersi from Understory and think they're awesome, sorry to see them in the bottom half.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I don't even know who/what one of them is - and I'd still vote for them first over DFC.

s


Rusty_Shackleford said:


> I couldn't agree more. My reference to the Chicago Mayoral election was really tied to how DFC was getting their votes. They are several other more qualified candidates than DFC on that list...IMO *ALL* the other candidates.


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## JJuchems (Feb 16, 2004)

that Frog Guy said:


> How does Dart Frog Connection have 3 Times the Votes as Josh's Frogs for Breeder of the Year Award?
> 
> 2013 | The Reptile Report
> 
> I mean wasn't this guy considered a Menace to the Hobby not to Long Ago on this Forum?


 Use Tor browser or another proxy service. By changing you IP it appears you are another person and thus you can vote multiple times.


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2009)

JJuchems said:


> Use Tor browser or another proxy service. By changing you IP it appears you are another person and thus you can vote multiple times.


Hey Jason, we are watching for that type of manipulation. We did have one nominee (not in the Amphibian category) that was using proxy shenanigans to add votes, or at least an enthusiastic supporter was doing it, and we erased those and notified the nominee. It has not reoccurred. 

We will watch votes and tallies all week. The rule is "no shenanigans" so I have a pretty wide range of interpretation there. I can disqualify someone if we think it is being manipulated. We also have a week to look over all voting before announcing the Reader's Choice winners on Jan 6th, so there will be time for analysis and contemplation.

I can also see voting across all categories and nominees. I see a very strong trend where vote count corresponds with the amount of effort, enthusiasm and promotion that the nominee has. If someone had 2000 votes with no perceived effort, that would certainly stand out. So would 500 for that matter. 

The folks with lots of votes, across all categories, are those working hard at it. And good for them. The whole point of the Best of 2013 Awards is to recognize hard work, passion and enthusiasm. I am down for that. 

We have had over 100,000 votes so far in December, a really terrific number, that is exciting. 

I expect the Best of Awards will continue to grow in popularity and prestige over the next few years. There are lots of terrific and talented breeders and photographers to recognize, I can't wait to see who is nominated and supported next year. 

I spent some time writing about the negativity and validity of the awards in this thread as well. I think the Awards ARE important, and ARE significant. The only limitation is the participation, or lack thereof. If you have a favorite, then vote for them every day. Help spread the word, shine your own light on the great work being done. 

The awesome thing is that recognition is not just limited to the winner. There is an entire list of Amphibian breeders that I get to learn more about, to hear more about, and to appreciate for their work. 

Best of luck to all the nominees!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> The folks with lots of votes, across all categories, are those working hard at it. And good for them. The whole point of the Best of 2013 Awards is to recognize hard work, passion and enthusiasm. I am down for that.


I'm not sure what can be done about it and I don't question your good intentions, but there is a difference between working hard at marketing yourself on social networking sites and actually breeding quality animals, having good business practices and contributing to the hobby as a whole.... beyond just saying "Hey come vote for us!" on Facebook. 

I'd be much more interested in a contest that supports people who truly contribute to the hobby and the animals vs one that rewards people who are really good at marketing.

Perhaps limiting it to 1 vote per person, requiring an email (that isn't used to send spam to that person at a later date), and a captcha or similar security measure would reduce skewed poll results based on massive social media marketing campaigns? (...just spitballing here, hell If I know for sure)


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