# Ringer's Solution



## gainesri (Mar 17, 2021)

I am currently caring for a colony of Allobates Femoralis. A couple of months ago, many frogs started to experience seizures. After doing some research, I concluded that this was likely a result of vitamin deficiency, and began regularly treating the frogs with Amphibian Ringer's Solution, which has since fixed the problem. Because it seems to work as a preventative measure, I would like to continue this regime, but I have recently become concerned about the long-term effects. Is it possible for the frogs to overdose on Ringer's Solution?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Thats a good question.

Amphibian ringers addresses ionic fluids and has calcium chloride.

It doesnt contain nutrients of identified dietary deficit like retinoid A.

If the frogs are eating and you provide an alternative osmotic seat of neutral (plain)water, whether you are making sure its available per surface drops per misting or a shallow clean petri. If you provide the ringers as option, frequently replaced (its encouraging to all life, including unfavorable microbials if left to stagnate, faster than plain water) its acceptable. With observation of frogs access of use and diligent replacement.

If frogs are eating and access plain clean osmotic seat hydration in a normal pattern, I stop enforced (enforced ie; put in a closed container w solution) soaks of electrolyte support.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

If the frogs are eating dust with rapashy cal plus.

There are tissue and bone non dietary pathways using lighting that outcomed strong resolve for burgeoning tremors to spontaneous fracture but a current supression of its use ties my hands in recommending.

You are intelligent. Read in lines.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I * did not use it as a replacement for dietary calcium w d3, but as a carefully focused applied inclusion. With seizure per blue jean pumilio to be specific. 

Not recommending just sharing.


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## gainesri (Mar 17, 2021)

Kmc said:


> Thats a good question.
> 
> Amphibian ringers addresses ionic fluids and has calcium chloride.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply! I dust twice a week with repashy calcium, and once a week with herptivite. I identified calcium as the deficient vitamin, which is why I started using Ringer's Solution. I have been treating each frog by applying 5 drops of Ringer's Solution directly onto their backs. Because I am concerned about over-doing it, I think I will switch to adding a pond of diluted Ringer's Solution to each tank and quitting the direct application.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

gainesri said:


> Thanks for the reply! I dust twice a week with repashy calcium, and once a week with herptivite. I identified calcium as the deficient vitamin, which is why I started using Ringer's Solution. I have been treating each frog by applying 5 drops of Ringer's Solution directly onto their backs. Because I am concerned about over-doing it, I think I will switch to adding a pond of diluted Ringer's Solution to each tank and quitting the direct application.


Is "repashy calcium" the product called "Repashy Calcium Plus"? If not, which is it, exactly? Repashy has quite a few calcium products.

Also, the way you describe using Herptivite is not the protocol outlined on the label. Is there any reason you're deviating from manufacturer recommendations?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Your descriptions of Ringers use seem to reflect some misunderstanding of what it is and why its used. 

I think you should connect with a proper veterinarian. 

I have heard of more harmful tinkering, but Ive got to be honest your right on the edge here in animal welfare and part of it is needing to learn about what your working with. 

Im tappin out now.


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## gainesri (Mar 17, 2021)

Ringer's Solution was suggested by the breeder who the frogs were purchased from. There are also multiple threads that suggested using Ringer's Solution in response to seizures...


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## gainesri (Mar 17, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Is "repashy calcium" the product called "Repashy Calcium Plus"? If not, which is it, exactly? Repashy has quite a few calcium products.
> 
> Also, the way you describe using Herptivite is not the protocol outlined on the label. Is there any reason you're deviating from manufacturer recommendations?


Yes, this is Repashy Calcium Plus. The friend I inherited the colony from was using this protocol for years, the reasoning being that dusting with one vitamin at a time increases absorption. I think it is worth switching back to the label instructions and seeing if that improves the situation.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The (well, one) problem with using Herptivite in that way is that it has twice the concentration of everything except calcium and D3, with which it is supposed to be cut 50/50 before use. When a supplement is designed to be used on a certain dosing regimen, increasing absorption is not necessarily a benefit. 

Hypervitaminosis B (and also hypercalcemia, it should be noted) include seizures in the symptomology according to a quick web search, which soaking in Ringers may plausibly help to resolve by diluting serum concentrations. So does hypovitaminosis A, which could plausibly be caused by use of Herptivite, which contains no retinol A.

I'm not making any recommendations here (well, I'd recommend a vet check to get a diagnosis, but that's standard procedure in any sort of non-straightforward medical situation), just pointing out possible problems in the reasoning. Hope it helps, and as always taking advice is completely voluntary.


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## gainesri (Mar 17, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> The (well, one) problem with using Herptivite in that way is that it has twice the concentration of everything except calcium and D3, with which it is supposed to be cut 50/50 before use. When a supplement is designed to be used on a certain dosing regimen, increasing absorption is not necessarily a benefit.
> 
> Hypervitaminosis B (and also hypercalcemia, it should be noted) include seizures in the symptomology according to a quick web search, which soaking in Ringers may plausibly help to resolve by diluting serum concentrations. So does hypovitaminosis A, which could plausibly be caused by use of Herptivite, which contains no retinol A.


Thank you for the advice! I am very new to this and had no idea. I will definitely be changing my dusting practices accordingly. 



Socratic Monologue said:


> I'm not making any recommendations here (well, I'd recommend a vet check to get a diagnosis, but that's standard procedure in any sort of non-straightforward medical situation), just pointing out possible problems in the reasoning. Hope it helps, and as always taking advice is completely voluntary.


Unfortunately, my local vet has not been very helpful. I submitted an inquiry about the seizing problem and the vet's only suggestion was to "reduce stress"  There also was a situation where I submitted a sample because I saw nematodes in a clutch of eggs and the results the vet returned said there were no nematodes detected even though I could literally see them with my bare eye. Anyways, thanks for the help and being kind in your delivery!


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

gainesri said:


> Unfortunately, my local vet has not been very helpful. I submitted an inquiry about the seizing problem and the vet's only suggestion was to "reduce stress"


Umm. 

If you can get in touch with an ARAV vet (search tool here), that's the best option. This isn't always possible though so yeah, a person does the best they can. Yet another reason why (dart) frogs are considered more advanced species.

Thanks for taking comments charitably -- it helps all around.


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