# Tesoros Indiegogo & Sacas Talk



## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Here you will find a link to Ivan's Indiegogo program. This is our chance to directly donate to Ivan's project and help support this great cause.
Donate to Tesoros de Colombia
We are aiming to reach beyond just the frog keeping community, so please share this on your favorite social media sites. Let's involve as many people as we can.

Also attached is the long overdue video of Ivan speaking at the SACAS meeting this summer down in Costa Rica.
SACAS Video 
The audio of this 36 minute video is of poor quality and is best viewed in a quiet room without distraction.

Sincerely,
Chris Sherman


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Chris,

just need to actually say a heart felt thanks from the hobby all over the world for taking out time to make this indigogo project happen. you are an inspiration mate,a cracking bit of work. 

Guys we are not all loaded,but little bits add up please help if you can 

best

Stu


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Sherman,

Thanks for your hard work on this special project.


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## Calivet (Aug 12, 2013)

No offense, but that page needs serious work if it's going to try to draw from anyone other than people in the hobby who are loaded and want the fancy frogs. There are no pictures of the rewards, thus nobody without a vested interest will spend that much money to get them. You need to show a person who is just casually looking what their money gets them - that's just basic Kickstarter/Indiegogo stuff. The adopt a frog level is ridiculously high - that's a LOT of money for a picture and a canned history of a frog you'll never see. Most people want a tangible benefit for that sort of cash outlay. A limited number of high dollar pledges to get moved to the front of a wait list for specific frogs would have made sense. As is, there's not a ton of appeal outside the hobby, and not really much to the average hobbyist who has no interest in (ever) buying $200+ frogs. Just my two cents. I wish him well, but this seems like a missed opportunity.


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanks for your critique Ralph. 
I will try to get some perk photos up there soon.
As for the get to the front of the list perk, we gave it some thought and figured it would create a lot of bickering and hurt feelings and that is not what we were looking to do.


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## Calivet (Aug 12, 2013)

Just trying to help, not being a jerk about it. These things work better when there's either a tangible benefit and/or a cool factor. You should also try to find something to put between the $100 and $750 pledges - that's way too big of a gap IMO.


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## RichardSimm (Dec 10, 2012)

I am planning on making my $100 contribution in the next week or so . I currently am holding off getting into darts till after my cross country move but if I can help insure that some o the most coveted animals in the hobby will be legally available to me when I am ready a year or so from now it's well worth my contribution. On top if that if my contribution can help make a significant impact on the local environment in one of the most biologically diverse regions in the world all the more reason to contribute!


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## LizardLicker (Aug 17, 2012)

Just sent some more support… I hope they reach their goal.


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanks Chris for the time and effort put into this project, it's greatly appreciated. 
This is such an amazing opportunity for our community we have to support them as much as possible. If we want to keep this door to Columbia open everyone need to chip in. 
I was more than happy to dontate, So C'mon guys and gals support our hobby!

_Dillon


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Calivet said:


> No offense, but that page needs serious work if it's going to try to draw from anyone other than people in the hobby who are loaded and want the fancy frogs. There are no pictures of the rewards, thus nobody without a vested interest will spend that much money to get them. You need to show a person who is just casually looking what their money gets them - that's just basic Kickstarter/Indiegogo stuff. The adopt a frog level is ridiculously high - that's a LOT of money for a picture and a canned history of a frog you'll never see. Most people want a tangible benefit for that sort of cash outlay. A limited number of high dollar pledges to get moved to the front of a wait list for specific frogs would have made sense. As is, there's not a ton of appeal outside the hobby, and not really much to the average hobbyist who has no interest in (ever) buying $200+ frogs. Just my two cents. I wish him well, but this seems like a missed opportunity.


So you're offering to help Chris out and beef it up? That's awesome of you. Thanks!


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## Pubfiction (Feb 3, 2013)

Everyone give your money to gamble and he can get the presentation for frog day. If you don't give enough you just sent him to Columbia. lol

Honestly I think the top tier is actually the one that has the best chance of getting anything. I can imagine some organization, zoo, or school doing that one. All the others, probably not. And based on past complaints I doubt even he community will give that much. 

I also agree with another poster that it would have been a good idea to include a donation tier for products like kick starter does. Pay X get a terribilis black foot etc... I don't know because I have never donated to a kick starter but I hear from people on the inside that all the shirts, mugs and signatures are important but to me it just seems like another cost subtracted from the bottom line in addition to the 10% or whatever indiegogo is going to skim off the top. So the point is if you are going to have 10% taken off the top it needs to have an ROI and that ROI needs to be exposure to a wider audience so playing to that wider audience is important even thought I don't really know how to do that.


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## lincolnerickson (Oct 7, 2011)

Hello Everybody

My name is Lincoln Erickson and I was at the Sustainable Amphibian Conservation of the Americas Symposium (SACAS) with Chris and Ivan and a bunch of other really cool people. I was the one who brought up the idea of crowdfunding and have been helping get this off the ground for Ivan. 

I just want to point out some of our thought processes so it might be a little easier to understand why we did the campaign the way we did. 

I would also like to point out that this is the first time any of us have tried this so the constructive criticism is great. I think if we can make this successful and then make the next one better and so on then croudfunding has a real chance to help a lot of these smaller organizations that are near and dear to our hearts.



First off, when you are donating to a campaign, you might have a couple of thoughts in your head. 

1. "This swag is really cool, and I am helping out some cause." 
or
2. "This cause is really cool, and I am getting some swag as well"

We chose to go with the number 2 route. We realize that the tiers are maybe a little bit expensive, but we hoped the strength of the cause would be a bigger driver than then rewards. This might have been the wrong course of action and we will see in 45 days when the campaign is over. 

The secondary reason to chose ideal 2 is that it is less stuff for us to handle. As we are all new, we wanted to make sure what we did promise we could deliver on. We really don't want to be in a position where we over promise and then can't deliver. I am 100% confident that what we did promise as far as rewards we can deliver on. 

We talked about promising frogs or getting first on a waiting list and we decided that it was just too risky. We didn't want to promise anything we couldn't deliver on Right Now. 



Finally, we absolutely should have pictures of the items you will receive and we are going to work on getting that updated ASAP.

Please keep talking about this too your friends and sharing the Tesoros de Colombia Indiegogo link. Even if this isn't the cause you are really looking for, if this is successful for the dart frog community, it will open up other opportunities for causes you might be more interested in.


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## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

I kicked in. I'm claiming bragging rights. Time to step-up couch conservationists! 

I'm not interested in the amount, but when you donate have it listed under your dendroboard screen name. Then come here and brag. I'll make space for you on this very comfortable soapbox, and believe you when you say you support frog conservation.

-Afemoralis


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

Pubfiction said:


> Everyone give your money to gamble and he can get the presentation for frog day. If you don't give enough you just sent him to Columbia. lol


Not so sure about the Gamble thing ;-) but when I read about flying Ivan out for a presentation, I did wish we could have him at Frogday or Microcosm.
I am in regardless .. just a wish.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Afemoralis said:


> I kicked in. I'm claiming bragging rights. Time to step-up couch conservationists!
> 
> I'm not interested in the amount, but when you donate have it listed under your dendroboard screen name. Then come here and brag. I'll make space for you on this very comfortable soapbox, and believe you when you say you support frog conservation.
> 
> -Afemoralis


Afermoralis,what's you christian name please? I figure folks wanting to share your comfy soapbox,might want to be on first name terms,my dosh will come late,but it will come,the joys of being ill and monthly pay tis all

This is deserving of being on page one ,so hell, see what I did there.

Please help Ivan make this work for our hobby and the wild frogs we adore,little bits add up, times are hard for many I know,but ten bucks ain't so much 

It's chimbo have a good un all

best

Stu


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)




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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

Unfortunately, times are tough and I am unable to make a financial contribution on my own...but I can do this: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/plants-supplies-classifieds/149346-enclosures-conservation.html


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

A complete, from the heart, plea:

This Colombian project is possibly the most exciting thing that could happen to our hobby for years,yet our hobby doesn't seem to want to support it. To Aff, I would really like to thank the few brits that I know have donated,Gordon Nick another Nick Adrian,those are the one's I know of,maybe there are others,they share your soap box. 

If I can use a guilt trip on you guys, well sod it I'll try anything,I'll tell you one of that number has no work,struggling to put food on the table,but still felt an absolute need to support Ivan,he 's even thought about donating some gear for a raffle.

We have just 11 days left now. If I'm right about my figures just 33 kind folks have found it in their hearts,to support this.

Those 33,yes just 33(Chris please correct that figure if I'm wrong),come from ,a pool of countries across the globe. The brits know,you guys know,the Dutch the Germans, the guys from Belgium, the Canadians I'm sure are aware. But 33 for a project like this ,which is essentially for us OUR HOBBY is really not sending out the right message. We should be all over this like a rash.

You guys in particular have been a huge force in my/our frog keeping endevours,you are are the ones that taught me about legit frogs,about UE about my mysties and where they really came from. You guys are passionate about genuine sustainable frogs. When you guys have a competition happening for your breeder of the year,you have pages of the yank fight I expect from you to defeat a know smuggler,I applaud you for that (I see what Dane and Martha are trying to do to I support you!!!). I give thanks regularly for the help and time spent helping us along with all the moral guidance,plus the practical help. Some of you have become our friends across the pond. You guys,pm me and help me give me your valuable time,for nothing,just to help us do better. Bless you for it!!!!!!!

But, I just don't understand why so few of you are on board here,what's the reason guys I really don't understand?

We all are going through hard times,it's here too. We are on the back of chrimbo we are all skint(broke),but as I write this 670ish are on line. Just ten bucks from each would set this campaign alight. 

This guy Ivan has put ten years into this project,he only needs a little bit of help from us,'cause he's governed by his countries laws and is abiding by them. To get us some frogs of unimaginable beauty,the frogs we would adore seeing,without any worries of smuggling. Conservation of his native species is his motivation,it isn't money. Some how this old brit has had the chance to exchange brief conversations with him,damn he sets my heart alight. This is a really humble guy,wanting to change things,for his wild frogs and for us. He's on his own now,he has us to show him we care,not just you ,but us the worldwide hobby, but where are we?

Lincon I've not had the privilege of speaking to you,but thank you for what you have done!!

Please help Ivan make his dreams and ours come true,we can do this,it's just a couple 'o' beers it ain't much,but we could send a resounding message by getting together of just what the dart scene is really about. We stand alone sometimes,we are the guys that pride ourselves on not needing other than what nature gave us. We have a chance, for once, to show what we really really care about. We have the chance to send a message out that we really care,not only about hybrids and smugglers,but wild frogs too. We have a chance if this is successful to maybe send out a message to other S american countries that biocommerce can be a force,all it take us us to stand together and all bung a tenner at it. 

Think on the ramifications if this does fly.

My communication skills are not great part of this post is designed as a guilt trip for a cause I have complete blind faith in,part of it is just a heart felt plea, for my mentors,and part is complete bloody confusion. Beyond all that there is this,we can talk the talk,but is all that meaningless if we don't walk the walk.

I implore you don't let this just languish, this it totally doable,bung a tenner at Ivan, the world might just be a better place

Finally,the campaign is not all of it ,I know some guys are stepping up by other means,buying frogs even buying frogs they don't want for others.

I just feel that the number of funders shouldn't be 33 it should be in the hundreds.

I don't really know how to grab support,god forbid this comes over as an attack on anyone,that ain't me. But passion for a good guy really trying and my support for him is what you are getting.

C'mon make us proud,we are the special guys one of our number has problems,bosh we help,no thought of ourselves.we just help the dude out, it's a given.

The dude is called Ivan,he is in Colombia, and has already given to us....never stopped us before has it?


I'm not clever I'm not articulate,I struggle with letters so my English language is very bad,so what you just got hit with is all I have,at this time,if I can find something more I'll come back 

Thanks for reading this

Please don't let this slip away

kind regards

Stu


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

I feel like donating myself and I don't have much to give. I'll probably end up getting the t-shirt tier of donation. I'd actually hope some more people would give at least a little.

Those frogs are amazing. That ranitomeya sp. and the occultator are just amazing looking. Not to mention lehmanni. I doubt there will be a better chance to get those frogs anytime in the next 10+ years and that's probably not even going to happen.

I hope more people donate.

-Nish

EDIT: I'm poor and I opted for the 100 dollar tshirt, pint glass, decal and cetrificate donation. Most of you guys can chip in 10 bucks. I might not even be able to keep these frogs because of my health. I'm sure everyone would appreciate these frogs in the hobby. Please try and donate if you can.


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm not trying to guilt anyone but looking at the list of people donating I'm surprised that it's so small. I'm honestly amazed that some people who are doing ok (I realize the economy isn't great) aren't willing to chip in a few bucks to get some of the most amazing frogs from Colombia. 

THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN LEGALLY EXPORTED EVER!!!

How can anyone not see this as a good to help out with in the hobby? =P

-Nish


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## Dizzle21 (Aug 11, 2009)

nish07 said:


> I'm not trying to guilt anyone but looking at the list of people donating I'm surprised that it's so small. I'm honestly amazed that some people who are doing ok (I realize the economy isn't great) aren't willing to chip in a few bucks to get some of the most amazing frogs from Colombia.
> 
> THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN LEGALLY EXPORTED EVER!!!
> 
> ...


I'm honestly very surprised too.. It's very sad to see everyone wanting new species and locales coming in, but very few are donating, Rather they want to support * WC* or *"FR" imports*, or go on their own endeavor. 
Everyone wants to complain about not having legal obligates yet here is your chance to support it, Just a few dollars goes along way. 
Even if you don't plan on getting Lemanni or can't afford them (I sure know I can't) 
STILL DONATE. 

_Dillon


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

nish07 said:


> I'm not trying to guilt anyone but looking at the list of people donating I'm surprised that it's so small. I'm honestly amazed that some people who are doing ok (I realize the economy isn't great) aren't willing to chip in a few bucks to get some of the most amazing frogs from Colombia.
> 
> THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN LEGALLY EXPORTED EVER!!!
> 
> ...


Nish what a heart warming couple of posts,I just wanted to write the word THANKS to you.
I suspect many of us won't be able to afford the large oophaga,but, there really is something for everyone here,I believe. The whole shebang seems just so important,i think it really send a message out that we don't just care about our frong in captivity,but see the big picture too. 

Well not wishing to derail this,your sentence in capitols I don't think is totally accurate,some of these frogs have never been legally exported I believe,but some have,before Colombia closed it's doors to export,somewhere around the late nineties I believe.

This is why we have old lines, VERY few and far between, of large oophaga, we have one that I know of here. We have a couple that I know of in the states too. There will be more that are off grid if you like held in the hands of old froggers whom don't post much about them.

Thank you again for your kindness

best

Stu


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Looks like there is only one more week left on the Indiegogo campaign, and the actual donations are WAY below the target. Will another campaign be started after this one finishes? Is it possible to create a longer-term donation window?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Dane said:


> Looks like there is only one more week left on the Indiegogo campaign, and the actual donations are WAY below the target. Will another campaign be started after this one finishes? Is it possible to create a longer-term donation window?


As far as I know you can re-run an indiegogo campaign. I haven't seen anything preventing me from re-running mine, but I haven't actually clicked the resubmit button or whatever. There may be a waiting period between campaigns...

Ok I looked and found this...
Relaunching a Campaign : Indiegogo Support

Looks like you can just relaunch it, even run multiple campaigns. 

I donated a little... It was money my family gave me to live on though while unemployed so I didn't feel like I could go nutz with my spending, but If this new job ever starts I'll look to donate some more.


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## dendrothusiast (Sep 16, 2010)

Dizzle21 said:


> I'm honestly very surprised too.. It's very sad to see everyone wanting new species and locales coming in, but very few are donating, Rather they want to support * WC* or *"FR" imports*, or go on their own endeavor.
> Everyone wants to complain about not having legal obligates yet here is your chance to support it, Just a few dollars goes along way.
> Even if you don't plan on getting Lemanni or can't afford them (I sure know I can't)
> STILL DONATE.
> ...


I agree and I think any contribution would help but I shouldn't be speaking since I haven't done it yet.  I just recently started looking into this campaign and while at the moment it's not close to their goal I don't think they will reach it soon. Don't get me wrong though, 4000$ is much better than anything lower and everyone who donated something should be proud they've done so. Hopefully there will be something at microcosm like an auction or some of the vendors will contribute some of their sales to the Tersoros campaign. If I was not late as always (which you know I always am Dillon lol) I would've loved to vend at microcosm to help Terseros.

Chris thanks for stepping up and getting really involved - that is TRUE dedication.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

dendrothusiast said:


> I agree and I think any contribution would help but I shouldn't be speaking since I haven't done it yet. I just recently started looking into this campaign and while at the moment it's not close to their goal I don't think they will reach it soon. Don't get me wrong though, 4000$ is much better than anything lower and everyone who donated something should be proud they've done so. Hopefully there will be something at microcosm like an auction or some of the vendors will contribute some of their sales to the Tersoros campaign. If I was not late as always (which you know I always am Dillon lol) I would've loved to vend at microcosm to help Terseros.
> 
> Chris thanks for stepping up and getting really involved - that is TRUE dedication.


While it would be nice if they met their goal, I assume they are looking for the actual frog sales to support the project. This funding goal is to help the project a long till the really desirable species come in. Also they get to keep whatever they get even if they don't reach the goal.

*Basically what I'm saying is I hope no one gets discouraged from donating just because they may not meet the funding goal*. It would be nice if they met it, but it doesn't really matter, except the more funds the better for the project. 

...Come on people, would $5 kill ya?


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

Finally managed to get some frogs out and sold after the Holidays so I could make my contribution.


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## ZookeeperDoug (Jun 5, 2011)

dendrothusiast said:


> Hopefully there will be something at microcosm like an auction or some of the vendors will contribute some of their sales to the Tersoros campaign. If I was not late as always (which you know I always am Dillon lol) I would've loved to vend at microcosm to help Terseros.


I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but, the whole point of Microcosm is to raise money for TWI. They have their own unique fundraising issues to worry about. It might be counterproductive for them try to raise money for Tesoros as well.


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## dendrothusiast (Sep 16, 2010)

Dendro Dave said:


> While it would be nice if they met their goal, I assume they are looking for the actual frog sales to support the project. This funding goal is to help the project a long till the really desirable species come in. Also they get to keep whatever they get even if they don't reach the goal.
> 
> *Basically what I'm saying is I hope no one gets discouraged from donating just because they may not meet the funding goal*. It would be nice if they met it, but it doesn't really matter, except the more funds the better for the project.
> 
> ...Come on people, would $5 kill ya?


Hi Dave I was under the impression they were in need of funding just to stay in business as I think i recall reading somewhere in the forum. I'd still like to make my contribution anyways just to help them out and see colombia's fauna exported the right way. 



ZookeeperDoug said:


> I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but, the whole point of Microcosm is to raise money for TWI. They have their own unique fundraising issues to worry about. It might be counterproductive for them try to raise money for Tesoros as well.


Very true and that makes perfect sense since they have their hands tied in many different programs. I forgot about considering them since I am out of the loop on these type of things - thanks or the heads up.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

dendrothusiast said:


> Hi Dave I was under the impression they were in need of funding just to stay in business as I think i recall reading somewhere in the forum. I'd still like to make my contribution anyways just to help them out and see colombia's fauna exported the right way.


Well with initially being restricted to frogs that aren't in high demand, I don't think they were seeing the sales they hoped for/expected. So what I meant was ideally as they add other higher demand species they'll hopefully be self supporting from their own sales. 

I'm not sure to what degree this extra funding was absolutely necessary to keep the project going, but it did sound like things were a bit rocky.

So if we want to ever get those lehmanni, histrionica, Andinobates and Ranitomeya in the hobby it would be best to support the project till they have the permission and numbers of those frogs to export (and are hopefully self sustaining through frog and merchandise sales).


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

I am not privy to the finances of Tesoros de Colombia, but I can say this: The majority of the original investors have walked away. The original export of truncatus was very disappointing and this latest round of orders was not stellar either. The hope, of course, is to create a self sustainable operation. The problem now is that there was so much invested to get to this point that Ivan feels he must see this through. The facility is built and operational, almost too operational. (D. truncatus anyone... anyone. Hundreds to choose from!) The first export permits have been issued; The path has been laid. A very long journey has led us to this point and it is all in danger of being lost if they cannot make this work now. It is sad that this is happening while everyone is enthralled with all of the recent wild caught pumilio imports. (A.K.A. pumilio round-ups) It takes far more work to actually farm frogs. Tesoros de Colombia is very much against wholesale collection from the wild to supply the hobby. In fact it is the very reason this program was started. The histos and lehmanni were disappearing from the wild at alarming rates due to smugglers supplying the hobby, not habitat destruction, collection. This project was created to help stem that. We hope that ethical, legal, sustainable frogs will be an enticing option for anyone interested in these beautiful animals. Also the awareness of this program may get more people thinking about the origins of the animals that they buy. A well know frogger mentioned to me the other day that all of our frogs originated somewhere other than CBB as justification for the recent pumilio round-ups. I liken that to air bags in cars. Not all cars were built with airbags, but once we learned about them and their benefits all cars come with them. Times change and this hobby needs to do so also. There is no need to collect frogs from the wild anymore. There are so many available to us right now, and quality organizations like Tesoros de Colombia and WIKIRI are working to give us more. Responsibly. Think about where your animals come from. Were they bred in captivity from a managed population or were they collected without regulations from a population of unknown size? We vote with every purchase. Vote wisely.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

srrrio said:


> Not so sure about the Gamble thing ;-) but when I read about flying Ivan out for a presentation, I did wish we could have him at Frogday or Microcosm.
> I am in regardless .. just a wish.


It's not official yet, but Ivan has tentatively agreed to speak at American Frog Day 2014. We still have some logistical hurdles to work thru, but I am hopeful we can make it work. More info regarding Frog Day 2014 will be coming soon.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

Pubfiction said:


> Everyone give your money to gamble and he can get the presentation for frog day. If you don't give enough you just sent him to Columbia


I'm confused Rudy ... Are you talking about me?
If so, what do i have to do with Tesoros? I'm not affiliated with Ivan.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

srrrio said:


> Not so sure about the Gamble thing ;-)


And why not? You have a problem with me?  lol

In all seriousness, I don't think Pub was talking about me.
It had to have been a typo.

Or I'm reading it wrong & had nothing to do with me to begin with.

In regards to this Tesoros discussion. 
I have strong feelings, both good & bad.
But I've decided to sit this one out for the sake of things turning into an argument & derailing the positive effort going on here.

As most of you know, I'm a pretty opinionated person & have no problems being direct & speaking my mind ... but I also know how to pick & choose my battles. 

Good luck to Ivan. I hope he is able to secure the funds he needs to keep things moving forward.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

In case people haven't clicked the link, there is an easy option to donate just $10, or other options for higher amounts if you can. The whole thing took about 50 seconds to do, and I was able to use the paypal money that's been sitting in an online account unused for years. Unfortunately I am not able to sell any new frogs for a few months now, but when I can, I hope I will still be able to donate the money to Tesoros. It would be really great if people donated 50%, 25%, or even just $5 from every frog they sell to them, especially with the Colombian frogs in the hobby (like terribilis...) I don't think any buyer would decide to purchase from another seller just because there's a $5 difference on a $50+ frog, especially when it goes to a legit cause. It doesn't have to be a lot, it doesn't have to be much time used, it doesn't have to be a significant sacrifice for you, but the potential is really enormous with this project I think... just sayin.
Bryan


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## srrrio (May 12, 2007)

JL-Exotics said:


> It's not official yet, but Ivan has tentatively agreed to speak at American Frog Day 2014. We still have some logistical hurdles to work thru, but I am hopeful we can make it work. More info regarding Frog Day 2014 will be coming soon.


Wow maybe wishes do come true! 

and Gamble .. it's all good. 

47 donors out of almost 18,000 DB members :-(


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

srrrio said:


> Wow maybe wishes do come true!
> 
> and Gamble .. it's all good.
> 
> 47 donors out of almost 18,000 DB members :-(


No Sally it's better than that,it's all good with 18000 DB members plus the Brits , Germans, Dutch Belgiuns....... .

4 days left for us to stand up and be counted. For us to give our hobby a chance for genuine legitimate Colombian frogs brought to us in a totally sustainable way. Ten bucks guys walk tall. Help conservation help yourselves,total no brainer. 

S'pose I ought to declare rather begrudgingly ,our horrendously late donation is in, but I always knew it would be late.I hoped we could sell some frogs and it would be more,but things are tight at the bottom of the pile.

Chris and Lincoln thanks guys,it is a wonderful thing you have both done here,total admiration for you both,many thanks

Stu


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

I do have one issue with this whole deal. I want to buy a shirt. I'm not willing to spend $100 on a shirt.

I understand what this money is going to. However, the scope of this "campaign" is very limited. Why not sell shirts for $20 or $25 with the majority of that money going back to Tesoros? I do know shirts aren't that expensive to make, and it would expand both marketing AND raising funds for the project. The same goes with stickers, cups, mugs, calenders, etc. People actually buy that stuff, but people have a hard time donating a chunk of money just for a shirt or sticker in return. In order to be successful, Tesoros needs to be become a marketable brand if the Frog Exports are not that successful.


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

EricIvins said:


> I do have one issue with this whole deal. I want to buy a shirt. I'm not willing to spend $100 on a shirt.
> 
> I understand what this money is going to. However, the scope of this "campaign" is very limited. Why not sell shirts for $20 or $25 with the majority of that money going back to Tesoros? I do know shirts aren't that expensive to make, and it would expand both marketing AND raising funds for the project. The same goes with stickers, cups, mugs, calenders, etc. People actually buy that stuff, but people have a hard time donating a chunk of money just for a shirt or sticker in return. In order to be successful, Tesoros needs to be become a marketable brand if the Frog Exports are not that successful.


But the object of the campaign is ulimately to raise money for the project, not create a separate merchandising entity. Selling and shipping individual stickers and shirts for the benefit of a few dollars Would probably create more of a logistical headache than it is worth.


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

Dane said:


> But the object of the campaign is ulimately to raise money for the project, not create a separate merchandising entity. Selling and shipping individual stickers and shirts for the benefit of a few dollars Would probably create more of a logistical headache than it is worth.


A few dollars? Seriously? They can turn this project right side up with the potential dollars this would bring in. Why do you think every Zoo in this nation has a gift shop? Why do Wildlife groups run TV add campaigns? A simple shirt advertising the project will bring in just more than your typical Frog people. That is the problem - Just advertising this to the Frog people is why donations have been so dismal. Advertise to the general public and those "few dollars" will support the project wholeheartedly.

Make the project accessible. Otherwise the target fixation will be the downfall of it...


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Dane said:


> But the object of the campaign is ultimately to raise money for the project, not create a separate merchandising entity. Selling and shipping individual stickers and shirts for the benefit of a few dollars Would probably create more of a logistical headache than it is worth.


I tend to agree with Dane, but I get where Eric is coming from also...

So It might be cool if/when they re-run the campaign if they had some merchandise perks like t-shirts in the $30-$75 range next time, and/or open up a cafepress or similar type store that dropships the items for them.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Dane perfectly said,I'll try a different stance:

would I ever buy a hundred buck T shirt,nah your joking. would I except a gift back for supporting a campaign to help go against smuggling,would I go without for that chance,even if the frogs I want might be beyond reach,oh hell yeah. The tokens are just that tokens of appreciation,not designed to be marketed,just to say thank you.,almost to be worn with pride ,with a subliminal advertising logo. Eric if you have a problem with the tokens just give some money for a worthy 'cause ask for nothing back,options are there..

take care 

Stu


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## EricIvins (Jan 4, 2010)

There are many companies like Cafe Press that will do all the work for you, and the profit would be for whatever the project needed it for. Just imagine how many kids want a cup or a sticker with a black and orange Frog on it? My two do. They may not know what it is or what it represents, but it does plant a seed that could very well turn into a potential Frogger. I'd wear a Tesoros shirt, and I'm sure many others here would also. 

Not only would this provide income, it would also help spread awareness to people who do not know what this is about, which in itself provides another income stream...AND this can be done with very little start up or effort for that matter.


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## Gamble (Aug 1, 2010)

I get where Eric is coming from as well. 
Whether you agree with his point of view or not, he has a point none the less. 

I'd like to purchase a shirt ... just Bc I want a shirt.
Unfortunately I can't swing $100 to do it.

If I could get one for say $20 ... I'd have already ordered one.


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

EricIvins said:


> I do have one issue with this whole deal. I want to buy a shirt. I'm not willing to spend $100 on a shirt.
> 
> I understand what this money is going to. However, the scope of this "campaign" is very limited. Why not sell shirts for $20 or $25 with the majority of that money going back to Tesoros? I do know shirts aren't that expensive to make, and it would expand both marketing AND raising funds for the project. The same goes with stickers, cups, mugs, calenders, etc. People actually buy that stuff, but people have a hard time donating a chunk of money just for a shirt or sticker in return. In order to be successful, Tesoros needs to be become a marketable brand if the Frog Exports are not that successful.


As was stated before we are not selling $100 t-shirts.
The t-shirts and other perks represent a thank you for a donation. As for the scope of the "campaign" we hope to reach beyond the boundaries of the frog community and ask that it be shared on social media pages and even through personal emails.
Any suggestions on how we could better reach the general public?
Lincoln and I are not professional fundraisers, and this is our best effort. We were not hired by Tesoros and are doing this on our own time, with out compensation. We are trying to spread the word about a good cause and help raise them some money. 



EricIvins said:


> There are many companies like Cafe Press that will do all the work for you, and the profit would be for whatever the project needed it for. Just imagine how many kids want a cup or a sticker with a black and orange Frog on it? My two do. They may not know what it is or what it represents, but it does plant a seed that could very well turn into a potential Frogger. I'd wear a Tesoros shirt, and I'm sure many others here would also.
> 
> Not only would this provide income, it would also help spread awareness to people who do not know what this is about, which in itself provides another income stream...AND this can be done with very little start up or effort for that matter.


This sounds like a great idea. 
Any volunteers?

Sincerely,
Chris


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I sent an email to Amazon and the guy heading up the new Bio Dome Conservatory they are building adjacent to their offices in Seattle, they eventually will have several large frog vivs in the complex. It may be too early or not be in the cards but I told them what a great partnership it could be for Amazon to fund this project....what a tie in. I think it would be a great marketing idea, hopefully they will find some funds to help out.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

markpulawski said:


> I sent an email to Amazon and the guy heading up the new Bio Dome Conservatory they are building adjacent to their offices in Seattle, they eventually will have several large frog vivs in the complex. It may be too early or not be in the cards but I told them what a great partnership it could be for Amazon to fund this project....what a tie in. I think it would be a great marketing idea, hopefully they will find some funds to help out.


That's a pretty creative idea Mark, kudos (and fingers crossed)


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

markpulawski said:


> I sent an email to Amazon and the guy heading up the new Bio Dome Conservatory they are building adjacent to their offices in Seattle, they eventually will have several large frog vivs in the complex. It may be too early or not be in the cards but I told them what a great partnership it could be for Amazon to fund this project....what a tie in. I think it would be a great marketing idea, hopefully they will find some funds to help out.


Mark, 
Not only do you have a great idea, but you are taking action to make it happen.
That's what I'm talkin' about.
Thank you.


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm sat here saying **** yeah as a new brit keeper steps up,then another brit a kid(ok I'm old a twenty something is a kid), has to have a T shirt,just how cool is that,2 new guys keeping darts for months say yeah I HAVE !! to help.

"Never, have so many owed so much, to so few" C'mon he was our prime minister 

Now ,the brits are the few,the yanks are the many,would you really want us whom really don't know what is going on,don't have your leadership, to give more % wise could the American hobby live with that?

Look I am baiting you,I have a huge smile on my face as I do it,there isn't any malice here,see the back post,but there is a seriously worthy cause. A cause that we our hobby want to succeed,let us not talk the talk don't talk about conservation give some money and walk it, give ten bucks to a guy whom has given ten years. For the frogs we care about.

Oops in my ignorance I forgot

PLEASE 

thanks again

Stu


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

EricIvins said:


> A few dollars? Seriously? They can turn this project right side up with the potential dollars this would bring in. Why do you think every Zoo in this nation has a gift shop? Why do Wildlife groups run TV add campaigns? A simple shirt advertising the project will bring in just more than your typical Frog people. That is the problem - Just advertising this to the Frog people is why donations have been so dismal. Advertise to the general public and those "few dollars" will support the project wholeheartedly.
> 
> Make the project accessible. Otherwise the target fixation will be the downfall of it...


I doubt much of this is all that practical with this project. The type of 'accessibility campaign' that would need to take place in order to get people to donate for a t-shirt would better be spent as just a financial support type of campaign, period.

Anyone who has planned an event and sold t-shirts for a hobby event/cause knows that t-shirts are, for the most part, a loss. You're lucky to make your money back on what you paid to have them printed. most people would rather put that money toward another frog or some more plants. And as I said above, if you are going to try to initiate a campaign or movement that is influential enough to get non-hobby people to buy a shirt for this project...well, that energy is better spent getting them to support the project in a different way such as an annual or monthly financial donation, which Tesoros would know it can count on (rather than sporadic t-shirt sales).

For Tesoros to reach it's goal on t-shirt sales (let's say they are priced at $25/each) they would need to sell 1k shirts. That is an ungodly number of shirts to try to sell to this demographic...ANY demographic, really. Even if the price dropped to $10/shirt, I would be surprised if more than a few dozen were ordered through this campaign. And that's not pessimism: that's based on actual fundraising as well as event organization experience.

As was mentioned above, you can't expect a business that has built its whole plan around the breeding and selling of frogs to then have to create and manage an entire merchandise operation that will, in all honesty, amount to throwing pennies at the thousands of USD that it needs to bring in to remain both viable and sustainable.

And keep in mind: I'm not against this project at all. In fact, I'm very much for it and I spent many a late-night hour talking with Ivan down in Costa Rica during SACAS. But there are certain logistical realities that need to be taken into account with the way this entity has been set up and must operate, and the direction in which it must continue to go. Throwing ad hoc "solutions" at it--although no doubt well intentioned--isn't necessarily going to solve the problem.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

A few of us in NYC dart group are putting together a tank, a few ppl are donating stuff and we are gonna raffle it off to raise money along with with some frogs, the tank will be displayed at Fauna in NYC over the course of some time we hope to raise a few hundred and hope to do this again.

I wish more local clubs would get involved in raising money and holding their own auctions to donate whatever money is raised to organizations such as tesoros and TWI


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Julio said:


> A few of us in NYC dart group are putting together a tank, a few ppl are donating stuff and we are gonna raffle it off to raise money along with with some frogs, the tank will be displayed at Fauna in NYC over the course of some time we hope to raise a few hundred and hope to do this again.
> 
> I wish more local clubs would get involved in raising money and holding their own auctions to donate whatever money is raised to organizations such as tesoros and TWI


Julio.bloody wonderful, what a fantastic idea,thank you sir.

Plus another young brit,

Julio, I come here you guys help me,I try to pass that forward. We don't really have long term guys here posting to help us,but the fact that some young kids,barely keeping are feeding on this is , AND ALREADY GET IT when so many don't is heart warming to me,damn I have to sing their praises.

Stu


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## briley5 (Sep 27, 2012)

I was just wondering if we could do a fb action like the one that just ended on RAACA. They raised over $50,000 for USARK. I didn't bid , as they were mostly snakes, but it was fun to watch. I think there are allot of us that could put up small things to make bigger packages, and pairs or single frogs. Supply's, art work, or services that we would all be willing to bid on. Just a thought and I would be willing to help in any way I can.


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

briley5 said:


> I was just wondering if we could do a fb action like the one that just ended on RAACA. They raised over $50,000 for USARK. I didn't bid , as they were mostly snakes, but it was fun to watch. I think there are allot of us that could put up small things to make bigger packages, and pairs or single frogs. Supply's, art work, or services that we would all be willing to bid on. Just a thought and I would be willing to help in any way I can.


That's actually a really good idea, though it does not have to be on face book. We all keep talking about how we hope this stays afloat long enough for them to get the high end frogs to market, that it would be a terrible shame to go under before he had a chance to save his business with the frogs that we all know will put him in the black. Well since Ivan has the frogs he is raising and he fully anticipates being able to export them why doesn't he put groups of say 3 Lehmanni and 3 Histo's and 3 Andinobates of whatever species and let people pay for them now. If he had 10 groups of 3 Lehmanni and maybe took a picture of each group I think he could easily presell $30K, $40K or $50K worth of frogs. I have always been against someone selling something they don't have (heaven knows we have seen people get in trouble with that) but in this case Ivan has the frogs and just waiting for them to get bigger and paperwork to come through. I think everyone would say hey I will buy that and take delivery in 8 - 10 months. I think he could generate all of the money he needs by preselling some of these frogs.
Let me be the first to order 3 yellow lehmanni, 5 Bombetes, 5 Dorisswansinii and 3 Anchicayan Histo's!!!! Lord American Express would have a hit man out for me.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I really hope this works out for these guys. I'd definitely support people selling Colombian frogs of old bloodlines if they offered to donate to this campaign.

C'mon folk. More people have got to be able to spare $10 for this. A couple beers unpurchased or an extra hour or two at work will nicely cover!


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

do you know what histo morphs they're working with? i'd preorder blue banded, blue bullseye (a man can dream). i know they're working with spotted anchicayan.



markpulawski said:


> Let me be the first to order 3 yellow lehmanni, 5 Bombetes, 5 Dorisswansinii and 3 Anchicayan Histo's!!!! Lord American Express would have a hit man out for me.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

markpulawski said:


> That's actually a really good idea, though it does not have to be on face book. We all keep talking about how we hope this stays afloat long enough for them to get the high end frogs to market, that it would be a terrible shame to go under before he had a chance to save his business with the frogs that we all know will put him in the black. Well since Ivan has the frogs he is raising and he fully anticipates being able to export them why doesn't he put groups of say 3 Lehmanni and 3 Histo's and 3 Andinobates of whatever species and let people pay for them now. If he had 10 groups of 3 Lehmanni and maybe took a picture of each group I think he could easily presell $30K, $40K or $50K worth of frogs. I have always been against someone selling something they don't have (heaven knows we have seen people get in trouble with that) but in this case Ivan has the frogs and just waiting for them to get bigger and paperwork to come through. I think everyone would say hey I will buy that and take delivery in 8 - 10 months. I think he could generate all of the money he needs by preselling some of these frogs.
> Let me be the first to order 3 yellow lehmanni, 5 Bombetes, 5 Dorisswansinii and 3 Anchicayan Histo's!!!! Lord American Express would have a hit man out for me.



I also thought about something like this, I feel like this would have a larger impact since people are giving money for (eventually) an actual product. I also thought it would be cool if somehow they could make donations like a sort of "deposit" for the frogs. Maybe half of the donation could be subtracted from the price of the frogs once paperwork is cleared? Or maybe have some sort of scale so that for every $25 (or whatever amount) you donate, the frogs cost X amount less when they can be imported.
Not sure if it's feasible and I know right now they just need money to stay afloat in the mean time, just throwing some thoughts out. I wouldn't even be able to afford these new frogs right now anyway, so I'm happy to just donate some money instead.
Bryan


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks Stu, 

It really starts with building local clubs, a few years back it was just GNYDS, which covered a big area so we were driving up to Ithaca mostly to Oz place, bu we would ask ppl to bring things to donate, such as tads, Spring tails, plants and so on and we would hold a small auction to benefit conservation, setting up an email list is a good start, the club might be small when u first start but it will grow, the NYC club has gotten nice and big now from just 2 years ago. I think we need to encourage more ppl to take trips to see darts in nature, there is nothing like it!



stu&shaz said:


> Julio.bloody wonderful, what a fantastic idea,thank you sir.
> 
> Plus another young brit,
> 
> ...


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## Spaff (Jan 8, 2011)

There was an auction allowed in the classifieds here a couple years ago for Bill Schwinn. Perhaps, another is in order?


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Julio said:


> Thanks Stu,
> 
> It really starts with building local clubs, a few years back it was just GNYDS, which covered a big area so we were driving up to Ithaca mostly to Oz place, bu we would ask ppl to bring things to donate, such as tads, Spring tails, plants and so on and we would hold a small auction to benefit conservation, setting up an email list is a good start, the club might be small when u first start but it will grow, the NYC club has gotten nice and big now from just 2 years ago. I think we need to encourage more ppl to take trips to see darts in nature, there is nothing like it!


Hey Julio,
Damn I'd love to see frogs in nature,but while I'm dreaming

The thanks are mine Julio. We have a small club here,not specifically darts,but two meeting a year and slowly growing.I shall have a word with the guys that set it up,can't do no harm. 

Cracking idea

best

Stu


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

Its good start Stu, one of the things we hope to do in the future is be able to host the meeting at a different's person's home from time to time to ck out their tanks as we do in the MADS meetings and New England clubs as well as GNYDS, the more meetings we have that are accessible to younger hobbyist the better!


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## Meefloaf (Apr 22, 2013)

i think we should hold it at Stu's


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Meefloaf said:


> i think we should hold it at Stu's


Hmm,young upstarts like this one Julio?

Julio's invited,you're not.I'm joking mate a new guy that stands up like you just did, plus, that tries so bloody hard is always welcome here,course you'll go away wanting more vivs more frogs It will be expensive!! If I can stop working long enough to catch my breath I ought invite you all,then charge entrance and send to Ivan,but Shaz would kill me probably Hey ho !! 

Back to it,please support Teseros if you can

best

Stu


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

Final stretch here, folks. (<8 hours) If you have been waiting, now is the time.



You could be like James and proudly hang one of these on your wall. They would look good in any frog room, especially hanging near a tank with Tesoros frogs in it!


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

I wish I could donate, but I don't have the funds to spare Hopefully People will donate in the last few hours!

I promise if I win the Jackpot lotto, I will donate a sizable portion to tesoros among many other froggy conservation efforts

John


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## avlo (Apr 19, 2012)

Just in time to pledge some for ya


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

6 hours left. Over $500 donated in the last 24 hours I think. Good job... but come on, still some time left!!!


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## Kudaria (Dec 24, 2013)

I just donated some money to them. I'm a strong believer in sustainable commerce as a way to undercut illegal smuggling of animals where possible. Certainly I'm curious to see some of the other species mentioned being offered for sale sometime in the future.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Looks like the total was $5,342 

That's nothing to sneeze at... I think it will be a significant help to them. I hope so at least. And as far as I know there is no reason why they can't re-run the campaign soon and continue to accept donations. So this isn't over! 

*Special thanks to Sherman and other people involved with way more initative then me! (I'm an idea man) *


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## nish07 (Mar 16, 2008)

Hey Sherman, can you talk to Ivan and get an idea of how things are going and what if anything more he needs to make sure he can get the ball rolling?

I know 25k would have been nice... 5k is good too. 5k is what he'd make from a group of 20 lehmanni if he can only get them out of Colombia.

-Nish


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## stu&shaz (Nov 19, 2009)

Dave I have to second that. 

Chris has been a person inspiration to me,beyond this project,but his work towards this cause,the dedication to see it to fruition and to have pulled it off so well I think is an unbelievably inspiring feat. I have no idea how long Lincoln and Chris spent putting all this together,but for both of you true ambassadors for our hobby. Thankyou. There is no way I could have done anything like,or as sophisticated as this, I adore the way it has been put together.

Chris/Lincoln,for us over here in Blighty, at least, there is a bigger picture to this campaign that you might not have realiised. Not only has your work grabbed some dosh for an outstanding project,but seeing this has made some young froggers here way more aware of smuggling and how imports of frogs work here,it's made them think about what UE does question which species have moral debates surrounding them,just generally raised awareness of where our frogs come from. To think you guys actually inspired some of those new guys to donate from my country,is no small thing guys it's a wonderful achievement.

For me it's just simple, another guy to call friend a guy that walks the walk,doesn't just talk about it. I like your style dude!!

Chris just thanks man,very very cool

best always

Stu


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## Sherman (Oct 29, 2008)

nish07 said:


> Hey Sherman, can you talk to Ivan and get an idea of how things are going and what if anything more he needs to make sure he can get the ball rolling?
> 
> I know 25k would have been nice... 5k is good too. 5k is what he'd make from a group of 20 lehmanni if he can only get them out of Colombia.
> 
> -Nish


Nish,

I will be busy making sure that everyone gets thier perks for a little bit. Rest assured though, I will keep the line of communication going and share whatever pertinent information I get with you all.



stu&shaz said:


> Chris just thanks man,very very cool
> 
> best always
> 
> Stu


This is not about me. (But it is always nice to read such kind words.)
I have never done anything like this before. Until this campaign: I have never had decals or t-shirts made. I have never edited a video. I have never printed fancy certificates. I have never asked anyone (let alone the whole world) for funding. 
It is amazing what happens when you commit to something. I'm sure if any of you throw yourselves into this type of project, you will be suprised just how much you have in you and how readily it flows from you. I am surprised by just how much I have learned throughout this project.
I would like to thank everyone that contributed or even changed the way they think about the hobby and the world we live in. Without all of you, this was just some words and pictures on a website. So, thank *YOU*.

Chris


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## Brian317 (Feb 11, 2011)

I hope they can re-run the campaign at another point in time. I think 5K will definitely help out and I do think an auction, much like the RAACA, would be a great idea. Sherman, thanks for all you've been doing.


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Is there still a way to donate to tesoros?


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