# 16" tall build, could use help



## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

So I'm finally getting started on my 36x12x16 tank, but I'm already worried about the height!








Here's a pop tart box to show how much space will be left after the 1" false bottom+ 0.4 inch egg crate+ 2 inch abg substrate.








Not much room left for planting :'(

So here's what I was thinking to save space:
3/4" false bottom? (I'm hand misting and checking water level regularly)
Plastic canvas instead of egg crate? (I'll use extra pvc support)
1 inch of substrate instead of 2? (None of the plants I'm getting need soil)

Here's the plastic canvas









I'll be hand misting, with help of humidifier on timer. There will be no water feature or pumps. There are no drainage holes, so I'll be hand siphoning if water level raises too high.

Is 1 inch substrate enough for microfauna? Is plastic canvas safe? Is 3/4" false bottom asking for trouble?

Thanks for any help in advance, my hands are tied till I can figure this out...


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## Steelen (Jun 22, 2014)

I'm no expert, nor a beginner just a humble lurker for now. But with that height have you thought about making it vertical? You could increase the the fake bottom and work with the height rather than the length. 

Its a just a thought I got when I viewed this tank. Put if vertical and look at for a bit, maybe that changes your perspective and thought process as well.

But like I said, I am still orientating and just providing a different view.


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

A few questions and comments from me.

1. Have you given thought to what type of frogs you want to put in there? I ask this mainly because there are species that don't necessarily need a whole lot of vertical space to be happy. For example, my terribilis currently live in a 20 gal long (12 inches high) when you factor in the false bottom, soil, etc they might have 9 inches of head room. They don't seem to mind much. They are about to move into a slightly larger tank, but that's more for my benefit than theirs.

2. Your leaf litter is probably more important to microfauna than the amount of soil you have. So you can get away with less soil and more leaf litter. The frogs will make use of the leaf litter as well, unless you have terribilis (they don't really seem to care about it at all).

3. Can you provide more detail about that plastic canvas? Is it sturdy enough not to sag in places where it doesn't have a support directly underneath? Where do you buy that? I can't speak to whether it's safe or not because I've never seen it before.

4. I'd stick with the 1" of false bottom space. If you ventilate the tank well and don't over mist you will likely never come close to having 1" of water in the bottom, but it's better to be on the safe side. 

5. You have plenty of room for planting if you stick with plants that don't grow extremely large. You can get smaller species of bromeliads, and there's lots of low growing foliage (begonias are my personal favorite). I think if you talk to some of the plant experts on here they can help you put together a well planted landscape for that size tank.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Steelen said:


> I'm no expert, nor a beginner just a humble lurker for now. But with that height have you thought about making it vertical?


That room doesn't really have any places a vertical that tall will look good, and I already have my heart set on a horizontal in that spot =P
That would make more sense though.


Dev30ils said:


> A few questions and comments from me.
> 
> 1. Have you given thought to what type of frogs you want to put in there? I ask this mainly because there are species that don't necessarily need a whole lot of vertical space to be happy. For example, my terribilis currently live in a 20 gal long (12 inches high) when you factor in the false bottom, soil, etc they might have 9 inches of head room. They don't seem to mind much. They are about to move into a slightly larger tank, but that's more for my benefit than theirs.
> 
> ...


1. I'm having an impossible time deciding on frogs. I really want a group of leucs but I hear they like to climb, which would be sad to watch in here I think. My Mom is the one who'll be seeing the frogs most of the day, and she doesn't like any of the one-color frogs I've showed her =(

2. I was thinking I could spread it thin near the front of the tank to make it seem taller and give more depth. The soil is necessary to keep humidity at the very least though right? So I suppose I can't just use leaf litter exclusively...

3. The plastic canvas is found at art stores and is supposedly dirt cheap. It definitely won't be as sturdy as egg crate but I'm thinking with enough supports and keeping the weight low on top will be safe enough. This will only save me like 0.3 inches though, not sure if that's a good trade off 

4. Yeah I suppose 1" on the false bottom would be best.

5. Small bromeliads and moss are my main interest, but I'll probably end up asking for help in the plant section eventually =P I have some big ghostwood coming in the mail that will determine what plants I can fit and where to put them.

Thanks for the help so far guys =)


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Here's a video of the plastic canvas, I tried breaking it but it just wasn't having it!
I'm assuming this is the same as the middle piece in the picture above, hopefully I can find the one with bigger holes.


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## TheCoon (Feb 8, 2011)

wriggles said:


> 1. I'm having an impossible time deciding on frogs. I really want a group of leucs but I hear they like to climb, which would be sad to watch in here I think. My Mom is the one who'll be seeing the frogs most of the day, and she doesn't like any of the one-color frogs I've showed her =(
> 
> 2. I was thinking I could spread it thin near the front of the tank to make it seem taller and give more depth. The soil is necessary to keep humidity at the very least though right? So I suppose I can't just use leaf litter exclusively...


Look at the different locales/varieties of tincs. Many colors to choose from there. 

I don't use any soil in my tanks, for what it's worth. Drainage layer of turface and a pretty thick layer of leaves and that's it. You've mentioned your mainly focused on broms and moss, neither of which needs soil. Also, the soil may help hold humidity in the tank somewhat but nothing more than what the water in your false bottom will do. If the tank is relatively sealed and you mist often enough, your humidity levels will be fine.


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## lookitsadam (Jul 1, 2013)

I just finished a tank with a 1" false bottom and probably 1.5" of soil and all of the microfauna is doing great. (I also put in a ton of leaf litter)

For the plants I have broms mounted on the background/wood, some moss, and a few climbing plants so I wasn't too worried about having a lot of soil to plant them in.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

TheCoon said:


> Look at the different locales/varieties of tincs. Many colors to choose from there.
> 
> I don't use any soil in my tanks, for what it's worth. Drainage layer of turface and a pretty thick layer of leaves and that's it. You've mentioned your mainly focused on broms and moss, neither of which needs soil. Also, the soil may help hold humidity in the tank somewhat but nothing more than what the water in your false bottom will do. If the tank is relatively sealed and you mist often enough, your humidity levels will be fine.


Tincs would be pretty awesome, I'll have to research those a bit more.

I was planning on completely sealing the tank and using a fan for air circulation, and hopefully some fresh air comes in with the humidifier(?).
If I can get away with only leaf litter on top of egg crate that would be awesome. Or is the turface important other than being a drainage layer?


lookitsadam said:


> I just finished a tank with a 1" false bottom and probably 1.5" of soil and all of the microfauna is doing great. (I also put in a ton of leaf litter)
> 
> For the plants I have broms mounted on the background/wood, some moss, and a few climbing plants so I wasn't too worried about having a lot of soil to plant them in.


Nice =) I think I might try going soil-less and see what plants I can get away with.

Thanks~
Heading to the store for more supplies today!


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

wriggles said:


> I was planning on completely sealing the tank and using a fan for air circulation, and hopefully some fresh air comes in with the humidifier(?).
> If I can get away with only leaf litter on top of egg crate that would be awesome. Or is the turface important other than being a drainage layer?


Please don't completely seal your tank! Ventilation is way more important than most people realize. For the frogs to cool themselves they need to be in an environment capable of evaporation. A sealed tank will quickly raise the humidity to 100% denying them the ability to cool themselves. 

I have been petitioning for a sticky in the beginners section about this for a while now, but no one seems to want to write one. I guess I might have to take a crack at it myself.

On all of my tanks I have 1"-2" screen vent running across the entire length of the top on the front of the tank. The screen portion will allow you to keep humidity at a more reasonable percentage (somewhere between 60% and 80% is good), and clear up the front glass after you mist; all while keeping frogs and bugs in the tank. If you need to see how a vent can be constructed check out Doug's guide.

Tincs are good, but you could also check out the other species of Phyllobates for that size tank. Tincs usually aren't good group frogs, the Phyllobates are for the most part.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Dev30ils said:


> Please don't completely seal your tank! Ventilation is way more important than most people realize. For the frogs to cool themselves they need to be in an environment capable of evaporation. A sealed tank will quickly raise the humidity to 100% denying them the ability to cool themselves.
> 
> I have been petitioning for a sticky in the beginners section about this for a while now, but no one seems to want to write one. I guess I might have to take a crack at it myself.
> 
> ...


Would Phyllobates vittatus be a good match?

I really wanted to put a fan in the tank for the plants. I hear orchids will need one if I end up getting some. Won't a vent cause the tank to dry out super fast with a fan in there?
There are also some amazing sealed tanks on this site so it's kind of hard not to do the same...
I've never racked my brain so much on a hobby before lol


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

wriggles said:


> Would Phyllobates vittatus be a good match?
> 
> I really wanted to put a fan in the tank for the plants. I hear orchids will need one if I end up getting some. Won't a vent cause the tank to dry out super fast with a fan in there?
> There are also some amazing sealed tanks on this site so it's kind of hard not to do the same...
> I've never racked my brain so much on a hobby before lol


Vittatus would probably work well in there. 

You can still have a fan in a ventilated tank, the key is not running it continuously. You can cycle a fan on for short periods of time to create circulation. You have to remember that the vent will also cause some passive circulation within the tank. Keeping humidity in the proper range is not as difficult as you think it is. Your plants will do a lot of the work for you, as long as you stay diligent with your misting schedule.

As for there being examples of sealed tanks that are amazing, of course there are, but doesn't mean it's the proper way to do things. Your frogs' health should be the most important concern for you. Your frogs will be healthier if they are allowed to cool themselves properly. The zoo professionals that frequent this site would back me up on this.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Dev30ils said:


> Vittatus would probably work well in there.
> 
> You can still have a fan in a ventilated tank, the key is not running it continuously. You can cycle a fan on for short periods of time to create circulation.


Guess it's time to figure out how I want the lid cut then. I don't know how I'm going to lift the glass for feeding/misting when the LED light is inches above it 
Do you think I can use a cheap 1 hour interval timer for the fan or are we talking short 5 minute intervals?
I was planning on having the fan blowing against the front glass, but with a vent there now maybe I should direct the flow elsewhere..


Got my humidifier rigged up today, the guy at home depot made quick work of it 








I also got the plastic canvas. It is ridiculously flimsy... I'm thinking it'll hold well enough once it's glued in place though.









Wood should be here monday =)


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## Dev30ils (May 1, 2012)

You could place the fan on one of the sides of the tank and have it blow across to the other side. I would only let it run for brief periods (minutes vs hours). Honestly you should ask one of the orchid experts if you even need this, it might be overly complicated. Other normal viv plants shouldn't need this.

That false bottom stuff is a little flimsy looking, I hope it holds up well when it's set in place. Are you going to silicone it onto the little pvc pieces?


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Dev30ils said:


> You could place the fan on one of the sides of the tank and have it blow across to the other side. I would only let it run for brief periods (minutes vs hours). Honestly you should ask one of the orchid experts if you even need this, it might be overly complicated. Other normal viv plants shouldn't need this.
> 
> That false bottom stuff is a little flimsy looking, I hope it holds up well when it's set in place. Are you going to silicone it onto the little pvc pieces?


Either silicone or super glue. I think I'll need to buy more pvc supports though.

I assumed air circulation would benefit everything in the tank so it was the first thing I purchased =( Maybe I could at least plug it into my humidifier's timer, that way it'll be on probably 6 times a day for 5 minutes or so when the fog rolls in.

Anyone know what kind of glue will work with vinyl tubing? I need to get this tube glued to the humidifier somehow-









I was thinking super glue but I don't want to risk it untill I know for sure.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Wood came in the mail today, it's perfect!









I was going to put the fan housing/fake tree trunk here:








The air should flow along the back pane of glass and get sucked in through the bottom. Hopefully the mesh screen won't be seen in the back.

I also want to get that black rim off of there I think, and maybe do something like this:









But then how do I do my feeding/misting with this light on top?
I'd either have to glue the light to the lid, or take it off to get the lid open


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Holy crap! They sent me the wrong fixture 
I ordered the *0.2* watt diode LED (38w total)
And recieved the *0.5* watt diode LED (65w total)

Is this going to fry my plants? How high will I have to raise it if I decide to keep it?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Those PVC pieces should be "notched" on the b ottom to allow better water quality...Silicone will not "glue" plastics...broms. are not necessary for the frogs you are contemplating...coconut huts-yes... what is the humidifier that you got from HD? Using small leaves that some of the sponsors have here on DB will be more in scale to your viv...and small leafed plants as well....you can drill cork for plants to insert into a background...check out how Oddlot did it...Good luck, have fun...


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

Don't use super glue. One idea that I have seen done was holes drilled at the top of the pvc and the egg crate zip tied to them. 
I'm with dev, you should have a vent. I did nothing but sealed vivs for about a year and swore by them. Well a few weeks ago I joined the bandwagon of proper venting and now my plants seem much happier and my Azureus and cobalts are more active.
Have you tried to find any local frogger to help you out maybe give you a tour of their frog room, slow you the how's and whys.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Judy S said:


> Those PVC pieces should be "notched" on the b ottom to allow better water quality...Silicone will not "glue" plastics...broms. are not necessary for the frogs you are contemplating...coconut huts-yes... what is the humidifier that you got from HD? Using small leaves that some of the sponsors have here on DB will be more in scale to your viv...and small leafed plants as well....you can drill cork for plants to insert into a background...check out how Oddlot did it...Good luck, have fun...


The humidifier is from walgreens.








I've been wondering how I'm going to notch the pvc without cutting my fingers off lol, been procrastinating on that.
The bromeliads are more for me than the frogs  There's no way I'm excluding them.
We have oak trees nearby I was going to steal leaves from, unless someone has super cool looking leaves for sale =O
I'm actually thinking about leaving out the background and just planting on the wood. I'd probably end up not getting frogs if this is the case.


Aldross said:


> Don't use super glue. One idea that I have seen done was holes drilled at the top of the pvc and the egg crate zip tied to them.
> I'm with dev, you should have a vent. I did nothing but sealed vivs for about a year and swore by them. Well a few weeks ago I joined the bandwagon of proper venting and now my plants seem much happier and my Azureus and cobalts are more active.
> Have you tried to find any local frogger to help you out maybe give you a tour of their frog room, slow you the how's and whys.


I've seen the zip tie method, but using it with my flimsy plastic canvas might not be enough. Is super glue/silicone really not going to adhere to pvc?
I'm definitely adding a vent, even if it doesn't work out I can put plastic wrap over it 
There are some local froggers, I'm just super socially awkward/anti social and probably won't ever bring myself to call them and ask for a tour. It's pretty bad actually, I've been talking to the doc about it but the medication hasn't gone well.

I got some neoregelias and I'm trying to grow them out in a plastic bin lol.
The bin has a sheet of plastic wrap over it and a humidifier hooked up to it. There's an inch of water at the bottom too.
I tied the plants to plastic canvas with twistie ties.
I hope I'm doing this right lol.
































The pinkish bromeliad was flowering when they sent it, and it's been looking pretty unhealthy. It was much softer then the other plants and has been yellowing and wilting a bit.
Here's the plants before shipment:









Thanks again for the helpful replies, I really appreciate it.


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## Aldross (Dec 30, 2013)

I feel you on the social thing. I have paranoid personality disorder. My wife would say that I am a hermit because of it. But that's why I join many forums. It allows me human interaction without having to be surrounded.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Aldross said:


> I feel you on the social thing. I have paranoid personality disorder. My wife would say that I am a hermit because of it. But that's why I join many forums. It allows me human interaction without having to be surrounded.


The internet is where the fun is at anyways =P

How long does it take neoregelias to regain their color after losing it in shipment?
I've had them in this grow out box for 4 days and they havn't improved at all. The one that was flowering when they sent it is getting worse I think, and the roots/bottom leaves are brown and bone dry. Should I wrap the root end with sphagnum moss?


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

I need some help again! =P (at end of post)


I've been experimenting with wood placement to get the most planting options:







Will great stuff or silicone hold it in place?

The 1/2" tubing wasn't fogging the tank at all, so I went with the biggest tube I could fit lol. It still only fogs the bottom half a little bit after half an hour...









Noseeum and window frame kit:









2 sheets of 1/4" glass cut at local glazier for $17, going for silicone hinge:









I notched and cut 4 grooves so I can string the pipes to the plastic mesh false bottom with fishing line. Seems like it should work...









I decided to coat the background in hygrolon and moss mix. Putting a 180° peninsula build against the wall was a stupid idea lol. This will hopefully keep the tank more evenly humid too.









I need help getting the hygrolon on the back as thin as possible. Could I silicone this 1/4" aquarium filter padding to the back, and then sew the hygrolon to the padding?
Amazon.com : Deep Blue Professional ADB41001 Plain Polyfiber Media Pad, 18 by 30-Inch : Aquarium Filter Accessories : Pet Supplies


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

The garage sale tank was giving me problems so I just built my own.









One mans kitchen scrub is another's vivarium background =P

















Covering it in hygrolon later. I put a small tube in the left corner covered by the scouring pads so I can stick my siphon down there easily.
I also noticed this stuff wicks no water, so I think I'll stick it around the perimeter of the false bottom if I have any gaps


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

so what is the size of the new tank? You sure are trying to do everything right! P.S. you do not need broms unless you are putting in frogs who want them for breeding...otherwise, coconut hut with petri dish....am following your thread....how is the humidifier working out? There is another thread here on DB about just hot glueing the hygrolon to the scouring pads...


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## zimmerj (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm surprised no one mentioned LECA to help with your humidity concerns. I have one viv with Hydroballs and another without..the one with Hydroballs maintains the humidity so much better!


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

zimmerj said:


> I'm surprised no one mentioned LECA to help with your humidity concerns. I have one viv with Hydroballs and another without..the one with Hydroballs maintains the humidity so much better!


I'm hoping the 3 foot wall of hygrolon wicking water from the false bottom will help with the humidity 


Judy S said:


> so what is the size of the new tank? You sure are trying to do everything right! P.S. you do not need broms unless you are putting in frogs who want them for breeding...otherwise, coconut hut with petri dish....am following your thread....how is the humidifier working out? There is another thread here on DB about just hot glueing the hygrolon to the scouring pads...


The tank is only an inch taller, which is still 16 inches  The last tank was 15 with 1 inch of plastic rimming, this time it's all glass.

The bromeliads are just to look at, unless the frogs will be bothered by them? I'm hoping to get a smaller species of terrestrial frog, maybe fine spot leucs if they don't mind the height, or small auratus maybe? I'm sure fine spot leucs would consider resting in a bromeliad at least.

I havn't tested the humidifier since my last post about it, but I'm hoping once the light is on the heat convection will stir up the fog better, if not I'll use my fan to help stir it. I wouldn't recommend this humidifier for anything larger than a 20 gallon unless you just want a shallow cloud at the bottom of the tank.

Yes I believe I made that scouring pad thread lol

Thanks for watching the build


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

-added hygrolon
-made egg crate+weed block bottom, the plastic canvas idea would need 100 pvc pieces to keep it flat  I also noticed there's stiff and extra stiff versions of the plastic canvas, the extra stiff might have worked with enough support.
-made a small viewing area to check water levels next to siphon pipe.
-made vent, not siliconed yet though. Using a weather strip in between the glass lid and vent for a good seal.
-siliconed some wood together, gorilla glued acrylic legs on so it wouldn't stab through the weed block, and drilled some holes so I could zip tie/fishing line the wood to the egg crate.
-put tank on foam sheet.
-added totally real frogs 










I siliconed the wood 2 weeks ago and it still smells like vinegar  I don't know what to do with it...


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## FroggyKnight (Mar 14, 2013)

Sweet! Its coming together really nicely and I LOVE that piece of wood. It looks like ghostwood, am I right?

Where did you get those frogs??? I actually would really like to know. They would look Badazz in my frog room 

John


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

FroggyKnight said:


> Sweet! Its coming together really nicely and I LOVE that piece of wood. It looks like ghostwood, am I right?
> 
> Where did you get those frogs??? I actually would really like to know. They would look Badazz in my frog room
> 
> John


Yeah it's ghostwood  from saveoncrafts.
I think my mom got the frogs for me from a zoo gift shop when I was a toddler, I've had them since before I can remember =)


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

FroggyKnight said:


> Where did you get those frogs???
> John


Forgot to post pictures, I guess XX is the brand name? I dunno 
I think some of these frogs are named under the wrong species they're so old lol.



















Judy S said:


> how is the humidifier working out?


The humidifier is pumping out way more fog now that it's hooked up to a larger/shorter tube:




Still only fills 3/4 the tank after 15 minutes though.
I'm amazed how bright blue frogs are under 6500k lighting!

Using wood bean pebbles around the egg crate.









Got some cpvc painted and hooked up to the light fixture for an adjustable stand. I was planning on siliconing it to the glass top so I wouldn't have to lift it off every day to water, but the silicone bond to acrylic is really bad =(

























After much research, the frog I'm aiming for is the el cope auratus 








Nothing is final till the tank is grown in though


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

What the hell... the weed block isn't letting a drop of water through 









After looking around i found this:
"The fabric must be “wetted-in” to overcome water surface tension. Once the fabric has been installed on soil and covered with a top-dress mulch, the fabric will readily “wet-in” and allow water passage."
That was from a different brand name but it's worth a shot.

Tried letting a good handfull set in the puddle for a while and still nothing.









I tried poking larger holes with a thick needle too and still not letting water through


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

After much procrastinating I replaced the weedblock with window screen and continued on with the adventure =P
- fired clay/charcoal substrate
- half the live oak leaf litter
- mounted the neos with fishing line. Though I'm sure I'll end up moving some.









Without the plants the humidity was reading 90%, should I try messing with my fan options to get it lower? This hygrolon wall is working a little too well 

I think I'm going to get a bunch of seed pods for the frogs to hide in. Maybe I can prop them upside down with a rock or something. I don't really like the look of coco huts =\

I'm going to try and get some more plants growing on the wood. Mainly p. prostrata, korean rock fern/ lemon button fern, spike moss/sphag moss. I also got a goldfish plant that should be able to vine on the background.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

Not a very exciting update, the moss only grew in a tiny bit and just crapped out on me.
Broms are pupping though, and the p.prostrata grows like a weed wherever I put it =)









It's pretty disheartening to see the moss like this after watering the thing by hand twice a day for the last few months. I think I'm going to give up on high maintenance plants and just stick with whatever I can get growing with watering once or twice a week.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

Don't give up on moss the problem lies in the fact that you have no idea what species it was and if it was a species that came from rocks, trees or the soil as many moss is very particular where it lives ( not all but lots). When you buy a plant or even orchids that have moss growing on them steal the tiny strands of moss and place it on your back wall. I don't mist my tanks daily and have intense lights and my moss grows. You don't want a high maintenance moss that needs more water than the rest of the plants anyway. Moss will grow in time from spores and be adapted for your conditions and you can easily propagate from that. Trader Joe's orchids are a good place to get moss that will grow well. Moss is the easiest thing to grow once you find a suitable species for your growing conditions and I prefer to start mine lower down on the wall as they stay more moist and grow up the wall in a hurry once they get a foothold and yiu can break it off and smear it with your finger across the background as well. And no watching it as that makes it slow down lol. 😉


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

planted-tnk-guy said:


> Don't give up on moss the problem


Thanks man, I'll keep trying =)

I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do with my fan. I had it outside the tank untill now blowing air gently out of the tank, this cleared the glass very well and kept humidity around 75%+
I noticed the moss is only growing on the right side of the tank where the fan was, so I tried putting the fan inside the tank for better circulation, and the glass fogged up entirely!









I wasn't expecting this, maybe the moisture from the wall getting blown around is causing it?


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## kentpiper (Mar 12, 2013)

Sorry didn't look back in the thread but do you have any passive ventilation in you tank? If not I imagine your just moving around humid air in the tank right on your glass fogging it up.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

kentpiper said:


> Sorry didn't look back in the thread but do you have any passive ventilation in you tank? If not I imagine your just moving around humid air in the tank right on your glass fogging it up.


There's a 1 inch vent spanning the length on the front top of the tank, it's visible in last picture I posted.


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## kentpiper (Mar 12, 2013)

Any chance that since the vent is in the front of the tank and the fan is pointed at the front of the tank your vent is just pushing air out and not in?


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

kentpiper said:


> Any chance that since the vent is in the front of the tank and the fan is pointed at the front of the tank your vent is just pushing air out and not in?


The fan is in the back pointed across the length of the tank rather than at the vent, but it's probably pushing air out. I was hoping to increase the circulation of humid air inside the tank and lower the exchange of outside air by putting the fan inside instead of having it outside forcing air exchange.
I guess an internal fan is just going to be foggy =(

I think I'm going to put the fan back on top of the vent but place it in the middle of the tank instead of the corner, and have the fan turn off when the lights go out so the moss doesn't dry out over night.


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## planted-tnk-guy (Mar 9, 2014)

I would suggest putting the fan toward the front angled slightly and pointing at the glass. In that tank you might need two smaller fans one on each side. That should clear your glass up mostly. When it's in the back you will move a lot of humid air to the front glass. Once the right species sprouts for you there will be no stopping it =).


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

planted-tnk-guy said:


> I would suggest putting the fan toward the front angled slightly and pointing at the glass. In that tank you might need two smaller fans one on each side. That should clear your glass up mostly. When it's in the back you will move a lot of humid air to the front glass. Once the right species sprouts for you there will be no stopping it =).


The fan was really intrusive when I held it near the front. Since this is a display piece I was hoping to avoid that 
I think the moss was doing well on the right side because the fan was sucking moist air from the soaked hygrolon past the moss and up to the fan. I wonder if putting 2 fans on top of the vent 1 foot away from each other would yield good results...


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

wriggles said:


> The fan was really intrusive when I held it near the front. Since this is a display piece I was hoping to avoid that
> I think the moss was doing well on the right side because the fan was sucking moist air from the soaked hygrolon past the moss and up to the fan. I wonder if putting 2 fans on top of the vent 1 foot away from each other would yield good results...


I gave it a shot and it's still more foggy than it was without the fan running. I'm really confused now lol








Maybe the temperature difference is the culprit?
I set it up this way last night when the lights went off and it wasn't fogging up much. Maybe I can have the fan run on an opposite schedule as the lights... but that's the opposite of what most people do... ugh so confused!


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## zimmerj (Aug 20, 2014)

I think you may be right that it could be the temperature difference. That could cause the moisture in the air to condense on the glass.


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## wriggles (Apr 5, 2014)

zimmerj said:


> I think you may be right that it could be the temperature difference. That could cause the moisture in the air to condense on the glass.


Yeah it's definitely worse when the light is on. I think I'm going to try putting the big fan under the light, and put 2 smaller fans in the front corners like planted-tnk-guy recommended. The heat from the light pretty much dissapears if the fan is on high enough =)
I noticed when the 1 fan was in the left corner, the right side of the tank was sucking in outside air and drying that side out, while the area closest to the fan was really humid and was blowing air out of the tank.
One way or another I need more fans if I'm going to get the conditions I'm looking for.


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