# The Ladybugs are going in!!!



## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Even though I treat every plant with a mild bleach and soap solution, I still managed to introduce aphids to a long established viv, and I cannot get rid of them. The frogs (tincs) don't seem to see the ones in the crowns of the plants, so the aphids infest and disfigure a lot of new growth and flower spikes. I'm pretty much over swabbing with q-tips and alchol as the aphids just keep popping up, and this has gone on for about a year now. So today I picked up some ladybugs from my local nursery. I know these can be effective in outdoor gardens, so unless someone knows of a reason why I shouldn't, I'm going to dump a few of these suckers in and see what happens.

Any thoughts or warnings??


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Someone here suggested this was not a good idea due to the secretions the ladybugs produce might get messy. Ladybugs are poisonous, but frogs in the wild have to deal with all kinds of spicy chemical defenses and should know to stay clear.

What species of ladybug are they? I think some may not adapt well to the warm and humid viv environment.

I would give it a shot...but try it out in a 2nd experimental take first if you are unsure.


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

> Adult ladybirds are able to reflex-bleed from the tibio-femoral articulations (leg joints). The blood (hemolymph) is repellent by having a repulsive smell as well as containing (in some species) various alkaloid toxins (adaline, coccinelline, exochomine, hippodamine, etc.). The hemolymph is yellow and its repellency and toxicity are believed to be a defense mechanism against predators. Some people have claimed that the bright (red on black, or black on red) colors of some adult ladybirds are aposematic, which is to say that the colors warn would-be predators that the beetles are distasteful or toxic.
> http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN327


I'm no expert but I would be worried about the frogs ingesting them. Maybe they would be too big to worry about anyone eating them. I guess you could always put the frogs in a temporary enclosure and just let the ladybugs starve themselves out. Just a thought. It's definitely an interesting idea.


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

I've also thought of doing this for scale that keeps coming back. I could put the frogs in a temp. tank if needed.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Skronkykong: question is whether ladybugs will attack the scale we are seeing in our tanks.


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## Corpus Callosum (Apr 7, 2007)

Any idea what type of Aphids these are?


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

I don't think that ingestion will be a problem, as they are far too large for the tincs, which are BYCs to even attempt. The phyllobates would be a different story, but no aphids in those vivs.

Michael,

I don't know what species of aphid. They're green ones that you might occasionally see on orchids, and were were introduced to the viv via Aeschynanthus longicaulis cuttings. I knew that the parent plant had aphids, but I was sure that soaking the cuttings in the bleach solution would take care of 'em. Oh well. Going forward, I'll be making the solution a little stronger because it seems I've created super bugs!


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Dendrobait said:


> What species of ladybug are they? I think some may not adapt well to the warm and humid viv environment.


They are Hippodemia covergens - the American Ladybug. That is one of my concerns, but I understand that their native range extends into South America (who knows how far), so I'm hoping that these will acclimate. We'll see.


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

One wonders where they live in between that thoug. It could be possible they skip the more humid environs.


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## skronkykong (Jan 1, 2007)

Back when I used to feed my frogs aphids from outside I noticed there were a few different kinds they wouldn't touch. At first I thought it was because they were not seeing them, but these aphids were no slower than the ones they did eat. I think they tasted bad and may have been dangerous. That's why I quit feeding aphids. Aphids off my roses were relished by my frogs but aphids from a wild vining plant next to the roses were not. They did not appear to be the same kind. Its a shame because there are always thousands of those outside too!


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Hmm... Interesting. That could explain why they're out of control. Afterall, I've never actually seen the frogs eat any of these aphids. Even the ones that I thought should have been accessible.


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2007)

I have a mealy bug problem in one of my vivs and alcohol swabbing has not won the war. My next step was to get some lady beetles. But then I remembered that there is another method.
CO2 
Get some dry ice and let it evaporate into your tank replacing all the oxygen. Repeat as necessary to eliminate oxygen loving pests. Snuff them out. I will be attempting this sometime this week or next as time allows.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

I'd consider Co2 if the viv was not so established. There are a lot of critters in there that I do not want to kill. 

Anyway, I put in about 1 dz. ladybugs last night. Not sure what I'll do with the other 488 :roll: .


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2007)

I would say springtails are rather easy to replace. What other life are you protecting from CO2?

As far as your 488, how much do you want for 12?


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## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

How have things progressed so far?


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

Khamul1of9 said:


> What other life are you protecting from CO2?


Ha! That's a good question Cesar, and it reminds me that I don’t (and can’t) sterilize everything! I really don’t know what all is in there. I collected moss, along w/ some moss-covered decaying wood, and put in the viv about 3 years ago . The frogs have been in there for just over a year, so all sorts of things had begun to thrive before their introduction. There are LOTS of isopods (I culture isopods, but I've never added them to this viv), mites of some sort and different kinds of little springtail-like things that are not like the ones that I dump in every week. Some are black and others are kind of silvery. There are periodic blooms of gnat-like creatures, but not like the fungus gnats that you get with potting soil and what not. There are also earthworms, which I added, and I suppose that there are any number of other critters you might expect to find in a clump of temperate forest moss (yes, it’s still living and growing), but I really don’t know bugs. All I know is that my frogs are pretty stoked living in there, so I don’t want to gas their home. 



Khamul1of9 said:


> As far as your 488, how much do you want for 12?


I dunno. The cost of sending? PM me.


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2007)

Dough!! I forgot about the earthworms! My tank has at least one in there that I see once a month or so. Oh well.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

This is working out pretty well so far. Two days ago I had clusters of aphids throughout this viv, and tonight I see very few of them. Some of the most infested plants look completely clean, except for the scaring :evil: . I'm going to try to keep the ladybugs in there for awhile to take care of any additional aphids that may hatch, although this may not be a problem. Right now, they seem to be more interested in mating than anything else.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2007)

Nice!!

Poor lady bugs have no idea the food supply crashed.


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## A_O (Dec 23, 2006)

Since many, if not most, aphids can reproduce parthenogenically (without males) and are viviparous (live young), you're going to want to make sure you clean them completely out their populations. 

One aphid could potentially start the whole process over... I've seen it on my research plants.


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

That's interesting A_O. I will try to keep the LBs in as long as possible. I've seen them chasing around melanos too, though I haven't seen them actually catch or eat any. If they can, maybe I'll be able to keep them alive between aphid blooms.


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## slaytonp (Nov 14, 2004)

Maybe they'd eat the melanogaster larvae. It might be worth a try to keep their numbers up for awhile, at least.


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