# Blue Sip seizing, lethargic, not eating...



## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Hi all, 

I was feeding my babies last night when I noticed one of my Blue Sips not making any effort to go after the flies. This is a common happening in only one of my other tanks -- usually my Imis won't eat if the GIANT HEAD is bobbling around in front of their enclosure, but I've never had that issue with Tincs or my others. 

This Sip has always been smaller than its tankmate since I got them both in August. Both of them have grown, but this one looks rather shrimpy in comparison to its brother/sister/pal/etc. -- however, I never worried about it because they were both clearly devouring everything they could get their tongues on during feedings, and I saw no signs of bullying; the frogs rarely, in fact, interact with each other.

Anyhow, I gently nudged the leaf nearest the Sip, hoping to see it move -- usually, of course, they dart away. This one didn't even blink. I leaned in for a closer look, then realized that the frog was covered in a fine film of what looked to be unshed skin. Alarmed, I gave the frog the most gentle of nudges with my feeding spoon, and it again didn't move. Worried that it was dead or injured, I prepared a temporary enclosure with moist paper towels and a pothos cutting. When I came back to get the frog, it was obviously seizing as much as it could -- its mouth was open, tongue sticking out, front legs folded inward. After it was finished, I removed the frog and put it in its temporary container, administed some diluted calcium gluconate I picked up at TSC in a few drops, and waited.

A few hours later it looked better, so I added a few springtails and just a couple of flies. The Sip tried to strike at them, but never changed position; however, the film of unshed skin was mostly gone. I misted the container gently and left it overnight.

Today the frog is no different; there are still several springtails in the container, and the flies have drowned. I can see unshed skin starting to build up again on the frog. Occasionally it seizes, sometimes flipping over onto its back. No evidence of anything like this happening with the Sip's tankmate -- Big Mama is hale and hearty.

Is there anything I can do for this frog? The soonest vet appointment I could get is Wednesday. Apparently a woman at my regular vet specializes in exotics, and when I asked if she had experience in poison dart frogs, she said a little -- so we'll see how that goes.

Please let me know,
Ash


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

You may want to contact a vet to be safe.

Some other things to check are:
- expiration of your supplements (if they have been open for more than 6 months replace them)
- Could also be a dominance issue with the other frogs in the tank


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If it is retaining unshed skin then you should also ask your vet to check it for chytrid as this is a classic sign for it. 

Ed


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Yikes, not what I wanted to hear!  Poor little guy...

Today, though, the Sip seems to be doing better. He (it -- whatever, I think of it as a male, heheh) has eaten the springtails and will now strike at flies with more accuracy than before. No unshed skin clinging now, and he's actually hopping around the container -- before, he wouldn't move at all.

Still going in to the vet tomorrow, though. Cross fingers!

~Ash


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

thats not good, but you caught it soon. when frogs shed their skin most of the time we don't see it cause it happens so quickly, but if you saw it the frog might be shedding it's skin more than it should. could it be mites or some kind of external parasite? the mites or ticks or whatever would be more of a harm to the smallest because it's the weakest and wouldn't be able to fight it as well. i don't really know, probably not right, and certainly doesn't explain the seizures, but...

what are your temps? there was a heatwave where the temps in my leuc viv got above 90 and the froggies started seizing. thankfully i was home so i cranked up the ac, turned off the light and put some ice cubes in.


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Temps in the viv are between 70-75F -- at night it might drop to around 68, but rarely much cooler than that in this house. Humidity is fine. I also checked the dates on my vitamins -- no problems there.

When I came home today and opened the container to mist, he seized again -- literally just keeled over. The unshed skin is also back, mostly between his rear legs. 

~Ash


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

not your temps then, they only seize when it's too hot and your temps look good.


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Here are a couple pics of the frogs. 

This is the sick little guy. If you click on the pic, you'll be able to see the unshed skin on his back legs. The toes on one of his front feet are also folded under:









And here's his normal tankmate by comparison. Awaiting food:









Aha, found one:









No idea of sexes, so ignore the 'he' label if it doesn't look right. I thought the pics might help.

~Ash


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Hi all,

The little guy was dead yesterday morning when I woke up. I took him to the vet immediately and am awaiting the results of a necropsy. She said she'd get back to me Saturday morning at the latest; he's already preserved, but she had other animals to tend and I said I didn't mind the short wait, given his tankmate and all my other frogs look fine.

Thanks for the help,
Ash


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## Otis (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm really sorry about that, sometimes stuff like that happens and there isn't a whole lot you can do. You still have 3 healthy tincs though.


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## Elphaba (Aug 26, 2007)

Believe me, you have no idea how glad I am that my three other Tincs are still fat and happy.

I also breathed a sigh of semi-relief today when I was told the results of my frog's necropsy. It wasn't chytrid or parasites -- the vet said that the frog's death was most likely a result of being stressed by a tankmate. I never saw it happen, but I suppose it's possible...

Also, I'm not sure the vet did this herself or if she sent the frog somewhere else -- given the quick timing of the whole thing, I'm going to assume she did it herself. :?: I just hope I don't have to go see her again soon.

Again, all, thanks for the help,
Ash


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