# Azureus eggs all dead.. why?



## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

hey everyone.. i have a breeding pair of azureus that have been breeding for about a yr now but in my care for about 5 months. and just about every egg laid is good and developes and everything i even get wigglers but then i look and the tad is gone and the sac just remains the egg clouds over and everything is dead. i spoke to a close friend he said the heat my be a issue considering its summer time and i keep them on the top rack. but this is basically my useual routine. i discover the eggs place a little tadpole tea into the dish just enough to cover the bottom of the dish and touch the eggs. after about a week and they develope a bit more i just add a few more drops of tea to the dish to keep it moist. the petri dish is in a tubware with no petri lid just the tub lid and i open it every few days to allow air exchange and check on the eggs and close it back up. i have approx 15 tads in water a few froglets out and i get eggs about 3 to 4 times a month its kind of scary how many eggs i end up with and their all now going bad. im open to suggestions. i also give them repti cal and herpavite alternate feedings which breaks down to be i feed every other day in large amounts. i also feed bean beetles twice a month and springtails about weekly but those arent dusted. any help would be great.

-Derek


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

Derek,

Go to the local fish store and buy a DECENT (read - expensive $$ and accurate) thermometer.

You need to have an accurate gauge for the temperature. Very important.

I think it may be a heat issue - "exploding embryos".

Take the egg incubator off the top rack for now....


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

i have a ton of thermometers all digital i have one in the area of the eggs and it reads 81 to 82 during the day when the apartment is left at 80 when im out. and when i come home in the evening around bed time i turn the central air on to 75 and the thermometer normally reads 76 at night.
i moved the last clutch to the floor and it still happend.. the temps were a bit lower but not by much. i left the most recent 2 clutches in the viv under a hut where they never go into or lay and their developing fine i havnt even put water or tad tea in the dish i just keep the viv moist. trying to see if that will make a difference.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

My incubator is set at 76F....

Works for my Azureus.

Now that I think about it...I do remember reading something about your specific issue as you described it.....possibly being nutritional. Maybe Ed will weigh in.

Do a search in the breeding subsection - WAY back .


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## alluringeli (Apr 20, 2009)

hey thanks PHil i been telling him i just think that the female is just worn out she has been laying large clutches of eggs at a alarming rate. 
the female laid so many good eggs in a short amount of time i think they just need a break.


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## Philsuma (Jul 18, 2006)

alluringeli said:


> hey thanks PHil i been telling him i just think that the female is just worn out she has been laying large clutches of eggs at a alarming rate.
> the female laid so many good eggs in a short amount of time i think they just need a break.


 
That could be as well.....a break certainly won't hurt.

I am just trying hard to remember when I had the EXACT same issue with my Tincs.....I think it was a couple years ago and I did not have an incubator set up. I kept all my eggs in plastic totes sitting on racks which were on top of light fixtures. If I remember correctly...the light fixture sides with the ballasts got too hot (duh) and I did not have a thermometer. I am pretty sure the embryo developed and then died due to the exessive heat and looked like it "blew up" and kind of started to disintergrate.

Sorry if that didn't make complete sense.


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## dflorian (May 15, 2009)

Derek,

Does the clouding over appear kind of fuzzy if you look at it through a magnifying glass or like a cloudy suspension of things that may be moving? I've been pretty diligent over the last month paying attention to appearances when I lose eggs in a clutch. As I work out technique, I'm trying different things to try and influence success...much as you are doing.

In recent weeks, I have seen a mixture of eggs developing successfully, contrasted with developing eggs overrun by fungi, protozoa, or nematodes. Whether I'm seeing the aftermath of natural death or the cause for the developing eggs deaths I can't say for sure. It'll take some time to work out.

Tonight, I pulled two standard R. lamasi eggs off a brom leaf that have been in the vivarium for about a week and found them infested with nematodes... in the egg, in the jelly, around the jelly. From the same tank, I've had eggs develop to healthy tads currently in the water and growing as well as eggs overrun will ciliated protozoa or fungi. The parents look healthy and move well when I see them. They are a little on the skiddish side. 

I found a young R. variabilis tadpole tonight, only a two days in the water, with its' tail under attack by either a fungus or a water mold. Poor guy. It's under treatment, but I dunno if he'll make it.

Perhaps your issues are truly dietary in nature. I'm just throwing up a few of the things I see that have been influencing developing eggs for breeding pairs that have been under my care for about a month and a half. Diet would remain an uncertainty in my mind as there are mixed results with some success/some failures.

I leave eggs in the tanks at least 24 hours/sometimes longer depending on the group.

When I pull the eggs they go into a fresh sterile petri dish and a blackwater extract and/or methylene blue cocktail added to cover the bottom or a few drops to touch the egg mass. I have begun to use a needle to tease out and remove any nematodes present around the eggmass. It is to early to tell if this is a meaningful exercise or if it exposes the eggs to attack by something else. Like you, the petri dishes are kept in a plastic sterilite container with the lid on. Unlike you, I have the petri dish cover on the petri dish bottom as well. Room temps range from low 70's to 79 F.

I don't know if this helps, but I'd be curious to know what you see if you're able to magify what you see by about 3x to 10x with a magnifying glass. 

Good luck working through it. Sorry to go on so long.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If the embryos are swelling and dying before the end of the first week, and you are seeing swelling in the abdomen of the embryo then this is a symptom of hypovitaminosis of A (note: symptom and not a definite diagnosis) as the lack of vitamin A prevents the proper formation of the kidney resulting in the death of the embryo. 

As a further note.. people need to keep in mind that colonization of the jelly mass of the egg is going to be rapid and that infertile eggs or eggs that are dead will be rapidly attacked by nematode, fungal and protozoal detrivores. 

A further thought on hypovitaminosis A is that vitamin A as retinol is very important in sustaining a competant immune response and any shortage is going to affect the animal's ability to respond to any disease process. 

Ed


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

thanks for chiming in Doug i appriciate it. yeah i been doing trial and error and not one egg or tad makes it which leads me to believe that what ed is saying proves true. i think that the azureus just wore them selves out and need to stop laying and recharge their batterys a bit. Ed would you happen to know where i can get a good source of vite A to add into their diet? im going to take them out of their viv and re do it and when i place them back in i would like to nurse them back to breeder ready with all the vites they need to be strong parents again. and i want to thank everyone for their help i really do appriciate it.

oh and i wanted to add the eggs come out healthy and fertile and begin to develope into those little black sticks. and right as the tad developes and starts to curv they start dieing off. the egg doesnt get any larger its like the tad dies and breaks off from the sac and starts to break down so some eggs have just a sac in it some have half dead tads. but some of them make it to wigglers and from then on i normally dont lose any eggs. but they just all cloud over. i dont see any type of actual molding or fuzz or anything on the egg or little worms attacking them. just they die. i even tried using brand new petri dishs not old ones incase something was carrying over i even changed from tadpole tea to spring water. i went from using petri dish and lid to plastic tubs to leaving them in the viv untill they die.. just nothing has worked soo far.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Hi Derek,

You are going to want to start looking in the health food stores to see what you can find. Alternatively you can totally shut down reproduction and try using (several) supplements that contain retinly (a retinoid form of A) palmitate but it might require a rest period of three to six months or more for the frogs to achieve appropriate levels again depending on status. 

Ed


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## DCreptiles (Jan 26, 2009)

It's almost impossible to stop them for some reasonbeben drying the viv out a bit isn't stopping them and slowing down on feeding they still laying large fertile clutches... I can only think to do is seperate them?


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Drop the humidity and reduce the misting schedule. That should get them to gear down. 

Ed


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