# First clutch- Lamasi



## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

My six panguana lamasi aquired at Frog Day have laid their first clutch, two eggs, normal looking so far. I've never had/raised tads or eggs before. What are peoples suggestions for best chances of success? They're in the tank now, I could pull them, and I've got 4oz cups available, but would their chances be better if left? Can't really get pics of them, the location is so that I can barely see them, and the macro sux on my camera anyways. I'm also going to be picking up a microscope tonight, if I pull them it would be fun to closely observe the egg development. The tank contains numerous water holding broms, with cups about the right size to fit on an average index finger. Is it recommended that I add more deposition sites like film cannisters?

Thanks in advance!


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Lamasi can be pulled, but parents would be willing to take care of them. It's your choice.

I am a little ahead of you - Although I have successfully bred other frogs, lately my Imitators frog Sean have been laying eggs. I pulled the first clutch of one egg, I wanted to see how I would do. The next clutch was laid about four days afterwards in a film can, two healthy eggs, which I will leave to the parents. What I will do is compare the growth rates of the tad I pulled and the two in the tank, figure out which is/are more healthy when they morph, and dedicate myself to that more succesful method. I imagine though that after they transport tads, they will lay more eggs, which I will need to pull to ensure that the dropped tads are taken care of! 

Hope this helps RMB


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Ok, I pulled them. The videos from Black Jungle on Ehow gave me a bit of confidence, and it seems to be the common practice.

Here's a link:
Stage Two of Hatching Poisonous Dart Tadpoles: How To Care for Poison Dart Tadpoles | eHow.com

It's a great series, very clear and easy to follow. I know I watched most of them before I got my first darts, but I probably didn't pay much attention to the breeding related info, because I was so concerned about just keeping everybody alive. About 6 months into the hobby, I haven't lost one yet! Probably the result of buying healthy stock from DB members.

This was another informative article about lamasi:
Dendrobates lamasi

So right now they're in a 4oz deli cup with just a little clean aged tap water. They both look alright, round, plump, a slightly mottled grey, like healthy eggs I think. They're labeled and dated. The next clutch I plan to let them raise, and compare results.The microscope turned out to be a bust, I don't know what I expected for 20$, not really a professional piece of equipment but it seems to work fine. The eggs nucleus just fills the entire screen even at lowest magnification (100x). A good magnifying glass would probably be the way to go. Somewhere I've seen some really cool up close pics pf egg developement, but I don't know where.

Info I found suggested a 2 week egg development, then 2 months in the water, and that daily feeding and water changes will produce larger tads quicker than tank raised. I think the care sheets on this site ought to be expanded maybe, there wasn't much on breeding them. 

Also, I did try the search feature before posting, and it doesn't easily yield answers, I got 40 pages of threads to read through. I know there is lots of relevant info on this site that I've read before, but I can't find it now, usually it's one or two posts in a long thread full of arguing and "gud job dude!". Maybe we can expand and categorize the stickys? Or start composing a library of articles? Oh, what about a "thumbs up" feature instead of cluttering threads with complimentary posts... I do appreciate a compliment, but I don't care to make others read them. Anyways, thanks for the info and tips people, I really appreciate the knowledgeable and experienced folks on this site who take the time to post relevant and helpful things, you know who you are.


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## spottedcircus (Sep 17, 2009)

My lamassi that I never see, are transporting tads like mad. I tried pulling one and it died the same day, so now I'm hesitant. I have at least 3 tads in the tank I can see. I haven't found the eggs or seen the adults but obviously something is going on. I have 8 drop off sites, but am wondering if I leave them in till they are pretty good sized if they will still keep laying eggs and I"ll run out of sites..So hard.. the tads are teeny tiny compared to my azureiventris tads


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Sounds like I need to get some film cannisters in there. Any idea what orientation they prefer them at? I see mine all the time for some reason. There are 6 in a 29vert, 4 broms and lots of other plants that aren't totally grown in yet. I often see 4 at once inside their favorite brom. Sometimes when I look in from above, one or more will dive down under the water, then pop back up a few seconds later and look at me.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Oh, what morph do you have spottedcircus? Mine are panguana, maybe your morph is more reclusive. Also, the caresheet said they'd be more terrestrial, but they're almost always in the upper half of the tank.


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## spottedcircus (Sep 17, 2009)

mine are f2 panuguan orange lamassi. I am using the clear film canisters not quite horizontal. I also have some of the little cups that people ship frogs in in there & they have deposited in there also.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Mine are in a 12x12x18 exo terra, 

3 canisters - White
3 canisters - black

Mine are closer to the bottom/ right above the leaf litter, and also halfway up the tank next to the broms. no further than 45*


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## MichelleSG (May 1, 2010)

Do you guys think they prefer film canisters to the bromeliads ? Or is there a preference seen?


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks for the cannister suggestions, I'll get some in there and let them try transporting next time. Looking at the eggs this afternoon, there isn't much change. There might be the faintest hint of something forming, but I really need a magnifying glass to see it better.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

They are definitely developing. There's a distinguishable head and tail forming on the nucleus.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

They've got little eyes, and they're wigglin. A second clutch was laid yesterday, 8days after the first.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Second clutch was bad. A third one was laid a few days later, one seems good. The original tads are in the water.


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## ESweet (Apr 13, 2009)

Awesome news! =D


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## MattySF (May 25, 2005)

Congrats..
I never pulled a clutch. The parents lay on brom leaves.
I leave film canisters in the tank upright with water and the parents drop them off after they hatch. 
My tads have seemed to do quit well on drowned fruit flies and algea. After the front legs
pop I place them in a morph out tank.


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Good to know Matt. I pulled a second clutch with one good egg, only because the brom it was on was dieing. I think the tank was too wet, so I stopped misting for about a week now, there haven't been any more clutches I've seen. The tads seem to be cannibalistic though. I put both from the first clutch in a cup and a couple days later I came home to find the biggun munching on the littlen. I don't think I saw that mentioned anywhere for this species, but I guess it's just good to assume they are unless stated otherwise.


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## MattySF (May 25, 2005)

My own personal experience with having tads togther is only after the front legs popped. They were mophing out at that point.

I was told one of the frogs recieved was missing a digit due to cannibalism in a communal tad rearing experiment.
Though I have never noticed a missing toe on any of the frogs or froglets I have or had in breeder stock or offspring.


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## spottedcircus (Sep 17, 2009)

I've had issues after pulling them as well. I never see my adults, but when I find a tad in a film canister, I wait a few days, and then transfer it to its individual cup. I have a rock in it for slime algae, and some floating plants in each. I've been feeding micro sera & micro crabs. When I think that they are big enough I have tried to give them a tadpole bite & every time I've done that they have died. I have crumbeled them up, smashed them but no matter what they have died after eating. Are they just too small for those? Is raising them on microsera & micro crabs good enough? I have 3 tads so far, but I've lost 3-4 I'm guessing


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks for the updates, any chance of photos?


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## RMB (Nov 26, 2009)

Lost a smaller tad today. Most likely overfed because I remember letting kind of a lot slip in there yesterday. Still have the one from my first clutch, and he's getting pretty big. He looks a little lopsided though, like if it's body where a little heart, the bottom point being his mouth, one of the round lobes is a little larger, is that normal?

I'll try to take some pics tomorrow.


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