# dart frog hybrids



## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

all you people say its bad to mix frogs because of hybridization but ive never seen a photo of a hybrid dart frog before and people say its been documented but does anyone have photos of them...i bet it would look really cool


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## nyfrogs (May 1, 2005)

some say it is bad and some say it is good for the frogs i think hybrids in the wrong hands is bad for the dart frog community. i personally think hybrids are very interesting but would never sell them. i have a cobalt x powder blue that looks really cool!


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

nyfrogs said:


> some say it is bad and some say it is good for the frogs


How are hybrids good for frogs and who are these people who are saying it's a good thing?

Bill


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

There is a leuc tinct hybrid on this a page. 

http://www.tracyhicks.com/Kfrogs.htm


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## chin_monster (Mar 12, 2006)

There's some giant orange X citronella hybrids at one of the local pet stores here that are kinda sorta interesting, but I'd rather not have the frog nazis come break down my door in the middle of the night (hahahahhahaha) so none of them came to live at my house.

That's my story anyway. No really.

The few pics I've seen of hybrids were rather plain looking frogs (the above mentioned G.O. X Cit as well) I can't say I'd be all that tempted.


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## Jay Why (Aug 27, 2005)

Ed said:


> There is a leuc tinct hybrid on this a page.
> 
> http://www.tracyhicks.com/Kfrogs.htm


Interesting. It is pretty cool looking... but not as cool a leuc or azureus, IMO.


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## cubby23 (Jun 12, 2006)

Hybrids ick, should never be sold.


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## xfrogx (Jul 5, 2006)

elmoisfive said:


> nyfrogs said:
> 
> 
> > some say it is bad and some say it is good for the frogs
> ...


I was thinking the same thing, If im remebering right there is nothing good about being sterile(cant reproduce).


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

that leuc x azureus is really cool i should get some aurotaenia and try to cross them with my vittatus that would be cool


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## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

I can see hybridization as a good thing - but only when it is used as a last resort. For example, when a species' population dips so low that it goes into an extinction vortex, I could see where strategic hybridization could be a good way to diversify the genepool and save the species.

But it would only be questionably good in a last resort scenario.

I'm against hybridization as well, but keep in mind that it happens naturally in the wild occasionally.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

snip "I'm against hybridization as well, but keep in mind that it happens naturally in the wild occasionally."endsnip

There is natural selection pressures against any accidental hybrids ithat occur in the wild that do not occur in captivity as the mate selection is extremely limited. 


snip "I was thinking the same thing, If im remebering right there is nothing good about being sterile(cant reproduce)."endsnip

I don't think that this has been proven but speculated based on other species but at least in reptiles this hasn't been the common result as even intergeneric hybrids have been shown to be fertile. 

The major problem with hybrids can be seen if you search the forum for what frog/morh is this thread where the frog is identified based on visual inspection. this would readily allow for hybrids to be crossed into the main population or for unscrupulous breeders to sell the offspring as one of the parental stock or even a different morph... 

Ed


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## roberthvalera (Jun 9, 2006)

That leuc and tinc hybrid is so sad. I think thats really messing with nature.


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

roberthvalera said:


> That leuc and tinc hybrid is so sad. I think thats really messing with nature.


well different kinds of people breed which were originally seperated by large natural feauters so yeah thats messing with nature


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## OneTwentySix (Nov 11, 2004)

naja_naja said:


> well different kinds of people breed which were originally seperated by large natural feauters so yeah thats messing with nature


Are you suggesting that blacks, whites, Asians, etc, are different species?

But getting back to the frogs, it's not that hybridizing is unnatural, it's just plain irresponsible. Hybrids are unwanted by the majority of the hobby for various reasons. What happens when you want to sell your hybrid offspring, and no one wants to buy it? You get stuck with it, or you sell it labelled as something its not, and it makes it way into the general population.

Or rather, even if someone else buys it, how long does it take before the hybrid and its offspring are lost into the hobby somewhere? For many people, their stay in the dart frog hobby has been less than five years, and entire collections wind up being sold off. It's almost inevitable that somewhere, you'll lose track of what frogs are hybrids, unless you euthanize them, and it's hardly right to kill a healthy animal when you don't have to.

Once the hybrids get into the general population, you do start to water them down, so to speak, but the descendents are never the same as the wildtype. Since we may never again obtain some morphs again from the wild, once we mess up or lose the morphs we have, we aren't likely to get them back.

People might say, "They're my frogs and I can do what I'd like with them," but unfortunately, things like this wind up affecting everyone.


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

OneTwentySix said:


> naja_naja said:
> 
> 
> > well different kinds of people breed which were originally seperated by large natural feauters so yeah thats messing with nature
> ...



no i look at like tinctorius simply genetic variation but you say its bad to cross those morphs so point proven


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## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

> well different kinds of people breed which were originally seperated by large natural feauters so yeah thats messing with nature


Humans are able to migrate on their own, a tinc from Brazil or Surinam is not able to hop to Costa Rica to breed with an auratus on its own.


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

VTHokie said:


> > well different kinds of people breed which were originally seperated by large natural feauters so yeah thats messing with nature
> 
> 
> Humans are able to migrate on their own, a tinc from Brazil or Surinam is not able to hop to Costa Rica to breed with an auratus on its own.


well if it had a larger brain and were able to travel like humans would it still be wrong... isnt the definition of a different species simply observing different characteristics in similiar animals


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## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

When darts grow big enough brains and are able to travel I will then comment on that.


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## naja_naja (Sep 8, 2006)

VTHokie said:


> When darts grow big enough brains and are able to travel I will then comment on that.



ill hold you to that


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## mystah (Jul 17, 2006)

I would say how ever that you could get accidential migration....A frog hiding in a plant that gets taken to another location... It happens with many species of other animals


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