# Rock Wall build



## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

My brother got his first frogs (2 Azureus). This is the Viv he and I put together. I custom built the frame-less, all glass viv. It is top opening with a 1" screen vent across the back, on top.
I don't care for water features myself, but his heart was set on it. The planning and construction was a collaboration, but he did the vast majority of the work on the wall itself.
Here you can see the high density foam has been glued in place with GE silicone 1. In pic 2 you can see the back of the viv. This shows how we glued a PVC tube in behind the foam to allow the pump hose and cord to come up through it. In pic 3 you see how we wrapped the Mini-Jet 404 in screen mesh. it has been hot glue sealed around the top to prevent Turface/substrate from falling through. If it ever fails, he'll have to dig up part of the viv and cut through the screen to remove it. Good thing we're using a Maxi-Jet!
Doug


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Oops, let me back up a step here. Here is a shot of him cementing the back wall. I'll try to find out brand names/types of cement used. Here we have set it on its back, into a plastic lined cardboard "tub". It has been submerged in half vinegar, half water, to cure the concrete so that the Ph is not too high. 
Doug


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## gothic dart frog (Jan 16, 2011)

ur back ground looks like its comin along great


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Here it is after being cured. He has painted it with various shades of grays and browns. He did opt to use a light coat of a sealer. Sorry, I don't know what type but I'll try to find out for you.

I have put in the false bottom. It does not go quite to the edge so that he can hide the eggcrate and screen with gravel. 
NOTE: We first tried to hide the eggcrate with Turface but found that it REALLY wicked the moisture up and out of the pond and false bottom! Switching to gravel took care of that.

You can see the "river" channel glued into place here. You can see the waterfall starts at the top, towards the left side, where it travels down and to the right, filling a couple of small pools within the rock wall as it goes. Finally it drops onto the river channel and flows across the front to fill the pond in the front, right corner. In the test runs, the water has been very controlled and well behaved. (phew!)

You can also see we have put an internal circulation fan in.
Doug


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

gothic dart frog said:


> ur back ground looks like its comin along great


Thanks! But it's not coming along...It's done and planted!! Here it comes...
Doug


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## Quaz (Nov 13, 2005)

Are you going to make a way to access the pump for cleaning?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

On to the substrate! The substrate started over two months ago. I took a big batch of ABG mix, that's Atlanta Botanic Gardens mix, available at Josh's Frogs. (Happy? You know who you are!) I set it up in a huge, under-bed, sweater box and seeded the heck out of it with 5 or 6 species of springtails. I've been feeding it heavily with active bakers yeast. Every handful is crawling with springs...like a hundred or more per handful!!

I put ABG mix along the edges so the layers of Turface and clay substrate don't show. Then I put in about an inch of Turface (infield conditioner). It's thinner in spots and thicker in others to start eliminating "Flat Viv Syndrome". Finally I added another inch plus of a Clay Substrate. This is a variation of Brent Brock's "Dirty Old Man Substrate".
Doug


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Quaz said:


> Are you going to make a way to access the pump for cleaning?


I'm afraid this is a weak point that he will have to deal with eventually. I don't use water features in any of my vivs. I left the research on the rock wall and the water feature up to him. That was one of the points I made to him repeatedly. He chose to use my variation of a false bottom (instead of screen lying on top, the entire false bottom, legs and all, is wrapped in window screen). Additionally he wrapped the pump in screen. When he has to service it, he'll have to remove the substrate above it and around it. It does, at least, come out without removing the false bottom.
Doug


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

And the planting begins. Wherever a plant goes, I have removed the clay and put in one or two handfuls of ABG mix. Then clay goes back over the top. The wall mounted fern on the right is planted in a molded in, rock cup, filled with ABG mix. For the broms, the wall has been drilled and the stolen inserted. The Phalaenopsis Orchid is an experiment. It was on clearance so we'll give it a try. We have internal circulation so hopefully that will help.
The trunk and rootwork is two pieces of Ghostwood, hot glued together. A bit of Pepperomia Prostrata has been attached to the the top and again, about halfway down. The Phalaenopsis is attached to the ghost wood with fishing line. Two or three other types of Pepperomia on the left. A bit of white veined Fittonia in the front left, along with a cutting of a very small leafed Pepperomia Galiodes (one of my favorites). On the right we've got some Lemon Button Fern, Calathea Rufibarb?, and a couple other odds and ends.

You can also see a grayish color over the top of the red clay. This is some additional Montmorillonite sprinkled over the top of the clay substrate. This is for extra calcium to be picked up by the frogs when they are hunting.

At this point we dumped in about 100 dwarf white isopods and a whole bunch more springtails. I mean lots! This baby is well seeded!
Doug


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Finally, the leaf litter is added and we're ready for a coco hut and a pair of Azureus!
Doug


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

Looks great doug, can't wait to see it grown in!


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## gothic dart frog (Jan 16, 2011)

Pumilo said:


> Thanks! But it's not coming along...It's done and planted!! Here it comes...
> Doug


well in that case it looks realy great, i love it!!, im sure ur frogs will realy appriciate it


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## Arizona Tropicals (Feb 15, 2010)

Turned out great, nice job. Definitely post up a materials list for the background if you don't mind.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks guys! I did leave the ground-space much more open than I would for the thumbnails that I've been working with lately. But yeah, it definitely need some grow in time! His Azureus will be so happy to get out of their little grow out homes! 
Doug


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## frogbro (Nov 19, 2010)

Hey - Pumilo's brother here. I'm stuck at work for two days, so don't have access to all my materials, but when I get home I will definitely post all that I used. For now I can tell you some of the things I used, and some of the things I learned:
Foam was high density from computer packaging, as others have shown in their posts. GE 1 siliconed in. We did plant a PVC pipe into the wall for pump cord and tubing, as Doug mentioned. If done again, I would make the pipe a little shorter - we barely got the pump tubing to make the turns without kinking - even an inch shorter would have given us more wiggle room.
First layers of concrete were versibond modified thinset (home depot), made VERY soupy. I tried white and then tinted it to tan with concrete coloring from Home Depot - just trying something different from the greys. I did NOT like the result, and final layer was done in gray. I probably did four or five layers of this, shaping with grinders and dremel as I went. 
After I was happy with final shape, I did my last layer in non-sanded grout (polyblend, home depot), as I had seen some others do. I have some opinion on this - the non-sanded grout was to make a smoother surface for delicate frog toes. With some sanding, it did do this - however, it did not bond like I hoped - the vinegar soaks and light sanding took a little more of the grout off than I wanted - so my brown/white undercoats came through in some places - no biggee, gave some variance, and paintable - but if you do the non-sanded grout, just be aware of this possibility, and maybe do more than one layer of the grout - I did only one.
Vinegar bath was next, until pH was good, and then painted with acrylic, non toxic paint from hobby store - I'll post brand when I get home. Last step was a concrete sealant. The only one I could find that seems to clearly be non-toxic was found at ACE - again, its at home, I'll post in a couple of days.
One other thing I'll mention that we learned - if you are going to plant in the wall as we did, put some drainage holes in your planter areas. I'm a rookie and overlooked this, so we had to deal with it as an afterthought - pain in the butt. 
Also, if you are going to do a waterfall or waterfeature, make sure you test that the water behaves as you want it as you build/shape - I would have sworn that water could go nowhere but where I wanted from step one - but after tests I had reshape two more times.
That's all I got on my end of the build - Thanks to Doug for all his help and knowledge with the majority of the viv - I'm really happy with the final result.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh yeah...drainage holes. That was a bit of a hassle. For next time, we decided some flexible aquarium airline hose, run behind the wall (like the PVC) would have been nice.
Doug


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## addam4208283 (Feb 19, 2004)

great job on the tank. 
ADAM


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Tank looks great....What's the black round thing coming in from the top.....


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Azurel said:


> Tank looks great....What's the black round thing coming in from the top.....


I think you are seeing the internal circulation fan. Here is a shot of the fan and a how to thread. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/55446-diy-tank-air-circulation.html
Doug


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## Azurel (Aug 5, 2010)

Pumilo said:


> I think you are seeing the internal circulation fan. Here is a shot of the fan and a how to thread. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/55446-diy-tank-air-circulation.html
> Doug


YUp that's it......I will have to check out that thread I have been thinking of getting some type of air flow, but the plants seem to be doing great so far with out it.....Thanks bro.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Azurel said:


> YUp that's it......I will have to check out that thread I have been thinking of getting some type of air flow, but the plants seem to be doing great so far with out it.....Thanks bro.


Any time. Air circulation is also great for your frogs. I have never seen anyone who has tried it, say that it was wasted time or money. It seems like everyone who tries it, wonders how they ever lived without it.
Doug


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## NickBoudin (Nov 3, 2007)

Awesome build, thanks for sharing!


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## btcope (Jan 7, 2009)

great looking tank. you guys always make my haphazard plant placement look really lame when you come out w/ these well thought out pieces of art. 

also, good luck keeping springs in there ... my azureus trio will dig through the leaf litter and eat every single one of those buggers within a day or two. doesn't matter how many flies they get to eat ... its like something to do to pass the time.

also, love that you're getting the whole fam involved. when's frogmom going to build something? I'm trying to convince my brother that i have a WAAAY better idea for his 95 gal wave tank than a couple of tropical fish. 

-brett


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks Brett! "Frogmom" chuckles and says "yeah, right! Tell him frogmom's busy knitting tiny scarves". Frogdaughter is 14 and can't be troubled to comment!
Doug


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## Morgan Freeman (Feb 26, 2009)

Ah man that all looks too good!

Are you adding any substrate to the water area?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Morgan Freeman said:


> Ah man that all looks too good!
> 
> Are you adding any substrate to the water area?


Thanks, and yes. He also made some faux rocks that match the back wall. These were made as loose pieces that he's going to arrange in the bottom.
Doug


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## TheOregonKid (Nov 25, 2010)

I really like this viv. Could you point me towards a thread that shows how to do the circulation fan build or give me some more details? Looks like you used basic pvc fitting like the kind you can find at Home Depot. What type of fan did you use and how is it powered?

Also, what is the name of the fern in the upper left? Sorry if you mentioned it...couldn't find it.

Truly a beautiful tank. ...and I agree with your bro, water features are the bomb. 

-Kid


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## Gumby (May 27, 2010)

TheOregonKid said:


> Could you point me towards a thread that shows how to do the circulation fan build or give me some more details? Looks like you used basic pvc fitting like the kind you can find at Home Depot. What type of fan did you use and how is it powered?
> 
> 
> -Kid


Come on kid, its on page 2 



Pumilo said:


> I think you are seeing the internal circulation fan. Here is a shot of the fan and a how to thread. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/55446-diy-tank-air-circulation.html
> Doug


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

TheOregonKid said:


> I really like this viv. Could you point me towards a thread that shows how to do the circulation fan build or give me some more details? Looks like you used basic pvc fitting like the kind you can find at Home Depot. What type of fan did you use and how is it powered?
> 
> Also, what is the name of the fern in the upper left? Sorry if you mentioned it...couldn't find it.
> 
> ...


Hey Kid, pm sent with fan thread. Sorry, I'm not sure about the fern name. I'm pretty bad about keeping all the plant names. Thanks for the kudos!
Doug


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## Kaity (Sep 18, 2010)

Quick question...Do you HAVE to do vinegar bath on rocks made of grout, even if they arent submerged in water?? If you do, can you elaborate on the process a little? Did you just spray the wall a whole bunch since it was already installed in the viv?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Kaity said:


> Quick question...Do you HAVE to do vinegar bath on rocks made of grout, even if they arent submerged in water?? If you do, can you elaborate on the process a little? Did you just spray the wall a whole bunch since it was already installed in the viv?


The high Ph of uncured concrete is bad for the frogs. The vinegar bath (or spraying) nuetralizes the high Ph. We did it by taking a box and lining it with plastic, a plastic dropcloth would work nicely. Then we set the tank on it's back, in the box. We put a 50/50 mix of vinegar and water in the plastic lined box utill most of the wall was covered. There were a couple of high spots that stuck out so we draped a towel over them. The towel serves to suck up the vinegar and keep the high spots in contact with the vinegar. After several days we tested the ph and it was still high. We set it up with fresh vinegar again. I believe we soaked for a week to a week and a half total.
This is how we tested that it was safe. We rinsed the viv and rock wall very well. Rinsed the homemade "tub" really well. Set it to soak in just fresh water with NO vinegar this time. After soaking for at least several hours (I think he soaked it overnight), we tested the ph of the water it was soaking in, with an aquarium ph meter. We were looking for a ph that matched (or was very close to) the fresh (nothing soaked in this) tap water that the tub was filled with. After the second vinegar soak, the ph of the soaking container matched the ph from water fresh from the tap. We deemed it safe at this point and he continued with paint and sealer.
For testing you could use Aquarium ph test strips or hot tub ph test strips instead of an expensive meter.
That answer all your questions, Kaity?
Doug


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## Kaity (Sep 18, 2010)

That's perfect! Thanks...but one more question. How long did you let the grout dry before you did the vinegar bath?


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm afraid he handled that part. I would think that as thin as these layers are, one or two days would be plenty.
Make no mistake, Kaity, this whole procedure takes a long time! He was working on that wall for close to a month! Granted, it was a part time project, but there is a lot of waiting around for coats to dry.
Doug


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## eos (Dec 6, 2008)

Wow. It turned out GREAT! I love the placement of the driftwood.... and the water feature turned out superb!


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

eos said:


> Wow. It turned out GREAT! I love the placement of the driftwood.... and the water feature turned out superb!


Thanks! The driftwood is Ghost Wood. It is actually two pieces that I hot glued together to give it a "trunk and roots" look.
Doug


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## RNKot (Jun 9, 2010)

Ghost Wood is the comercial name for Manzanita?


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

RNKot said:


> Ghost Wood is the comercial name for Manzanita?


I have a theory that ghost wood is just sand blasted manzanita...but I don't know for sure.


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

I have heard it said that they are the same product, but I have worked with plenty of Ghost Wood and a little Manzanita. I believe they are, in fact, different. I have a good source for Ghost Wood and can pm it to anyone interested.
Doug


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## TheOregonKid (Nov 25, 2010)

Looking good...any updates?


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

Your explanation of soaking the background was a good one, but my question has not been answered...if the background does not incorporate any water feature, do you still have to do a soak??? Viv looks great...


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

Judy S said:


> Your explanation of soaking the background was a good one, but my question has not been answered...if the background does not incorporate any water feature, do you still have to do a soak??? Viv looks great...


You need to cure concrete or grout to increase the strength, so yes.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

thanks for your answer....I've already painted it with acrylics, and parts that would be subject to water/humidity have been coated with marine epoxy...as well as the whole back of the removable styro wall...still have to do it???


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## Pumilo (Sep 4, 2010)

Unless you have it completely, 100% sealed and waterproofed, then yes. If your frogs sit on it, the high PH is bad for them.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

no shortcuts...oh well, get out the tub---thanks


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## dubloco (Sep 18, 2011)

Great job on this build. I like the fan and the glass construction.


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