# First Vivarium, 29g vert conversion



## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

I just finished building my first vivarium. It's a 29g tall conversion, so the dimensions are 12x18x36. It will NOT have animals in it for a while. So I'm not too concerned about that. For now it is just for plants.

I started with a 29g vivarium from craigslist. The plan was just to derim it and add a door to the front and top. In the process I cracked one of the big side panels. In hindsight I was probably going too fast. I hadn't been through the derimming process before, but if I had to do it again I'm sure I could do it without cracking anything. I cut out the damaged panel and replaced it. Next I siliconed on new panels for the front and top.

The background is silicone and great stuff foam, with a bit of cork bark. It conceals a duct for an 80mm fan that provides circulation for the vivarium. I also used a branch of ghostwood to provide a little more horizontal area in the tank for plants.

The front door is attached with some plastic hinges from amazon. I was concerned the silicone wouldn't stick to the hinges, but after roughing them up with sand paper and then washing off the dust it seemed to bond well. The top lid just uses a standard plastic aquarium lid hinge.

I used a false bottom constructed of egg crate and weed barrier. The false bottom is surrounded with leftover aquasoil from an aquarium project. This provides a consistent look around the bottom of the vivarium. There is a pvc pipe with a cap that I can use to drain the false bottom with a turkey baster.

For lighting I am using two 30W 6500k CFLs in a Zoo Med double deep dome fixture. I'm not sure if I have enough light. Visually it is fine, but the tank is pretty tall, and I think the ghostwood branch will block a lot of light once it is covered in plants.

I'm waiting on an order of plants to ship from NEHERP. Until then I have a single maidenhair fern from the local ace.

The whole thing seems to be doing about what it should. It's easy to keep about 80% humidity and there is hardly ever any standing water on the leaves. Any condensation clears up pretty quickly from the circulation. I think I'm going to need some kind of heater though. Night time temps are as low as 58 and the highest I've seen during the day is 68. I'm not really sure what the best options are for heating. It sounds like heat pads have a risk of causing cracks, so I'm thinking maybe I'll put a 25-50W heat cable into the duct. Hopefully this will help to heat the air in the terrarium as the fan blows air across the cable. Anyone have suggestions for heating?


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Really excited to see how this thing looks planted. Digging the vertical 29g


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## GBR (Jun 7, 2013)

Very nice conversion! What do you use to keep the door closed? and how many layers of cocofiber did you do?


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## austin (Dec 6, 2013)

I like how you stripped the frame away.


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## erikm (Oct 1, 2015)

Regarding heat, it's always easier to warm the ambient temperature of the room up rather than forcing warm air into the enclosure.

An oil filled radiator on a thermostat works excellent.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

GBR said:


> Very nice conversion! What do you use to keep the door closed? and how many layers of cocofiber did you do?


I attached the door a little too close to the pane below it. The hinges flex the slightest bit and its enough to make the door rub on the top edge of the pane below it. So it's just friction holding it closed. I also installed a small magnet in the top corner to hold it closed, but it turns out that isn't really necessary.

The background is a single layer of NEHERP background mix. It took me probably 9+ separate applications to get the whole background covered. I got a lot better at it as I went, the first few I didn't press the mix into very well so they didn't hold too much texture. I don't think it will be noticeable once it has grown in.



> Regarding heat, it's always easier to warm the ambient temperature of the room up rather than forcing warm air into the enclosure.
> 
> An oil filled radiator on a thermostat works excellent.


This tank is in my single room apartment. Heating the room is really a last resort for me. I think I may start by just putting a 10W fixed temp aquarium heater into the false bottom. I wanted to avoid this initially because access to the false bottom is very poor. But the tank is colder than I expected. I could do this without too much trouble when I plant the tank.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

I would try to put a heating cable in the built in duct you have. Just make sure to get a thermostat and don't set it too high. 

Unless you have 3'' or more of standing water on the bottom I wouldn't recommend an aquarium heater. Especially with the vertical tank layout I don't see that being an effective heating method. 

I'm surprised your temps are so low even using CFLs. If you ran LEDs your daytime temps would even be lower.

Also, where are you measuring the temperature from? (i.e. bottom of tank, middle, top, etc)


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

I am using a digital thermometer placed on the branch in the middle of the tank. So I'm measuring the air temperature about a foot above the substrate. I also have an IR thermometer that I've been using to measure more specific locations.

I thought I would get better heating from the cfls too. The top of the tank is generally 2-3 degrees warmer than the bottom. The fan keeps it decently well mixed, but there is a small gradient while the light is on.

I don't expect the aquarium heater in the false bottom would raise the air temperature much, but I am concerned that having warm air and cold substrate might be weird for the plants. I'm also worried it would cause condensation in the substrate and make things soggy. The false bottom is 3" deep and could probably hold as much as 2.5" of water.


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Someone can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong for vivarium plants, but in my experience plants don't mind being in warm air with a cool substrate, and many actually prefer it.

What most plants don't like however, are soggy feet. You should have a good half inch to inch MINIMUM between your water level and substrate.

Either the aquarium heater or the heating cable you're going to have to play with things a bit before it's dialed and I'm sure either will have some type of condensation you will have to address with your ventilation system. 

I still vote the heating cable because it's less invasive and you don't have to fill your tank with lots of water (each gallon weighs over 8lbs)! And if it doesn't work it'd be the easiest to re-package and return...

Let us know what you go with!


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## Bunsincunsin (Feb 11, 2008)

I agree with austin; I like how you de-rimmed the aquarium - it's not something that you see too often and it looks extremely "clean". Nice work.


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## Judy S (Aug 29, 2010)

very clean looking...how difficult is it to de-rim? Did you leave the rim on just the bottom part? What was the taping for?


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Hmm, it's hard to describe. I was pretty impatient with the derimming and I tried to do it without buying the right tools, I only had an exacto knife to cut the silicone. This was a mistake. I couldn't cut all the way through the silicone, so I had to pry the rim away from the glass to break the bond. Being careless with that process is how I broke the glass. The glass is actually very strong, if I had been more patient I could have done it well even with the tools I had. I think if I had bothered to buy a tool like a thin drywall taping knife it would be very easy. Definitely something most people could do.

I removed the entire rim. When all the permanent glass planes were in place I used two pieces of PVC angle to form a new rim for the bottom. This just prevents the tank from having to sit on the glass pane.

The taping was from when I was replacing the cracked panel. I used the tape to mask off the areas that would be bonded with silicone. This way I can run my finger along the joint to get a nice corner on the silicone, then peel off the tape right after to get a clean edge along the glass. On the top panel I actually put the tape on the wrong side of the glass (duh) because I taped the panel before putting it in place. I had to clean up the silicone edges after the silicone had cured and it was a pain.


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## agimlin (May 28, 2013)

I love the look of vertical conversions, I have personally built 3 first was a 10g then a 20 tall then a 29g all with the same pair of retf, but in my experience every single one started to leak after about a year. Not sure if it was something I did wrong but never the less still leaked. Currently I don't have any vivs but did just pick up a 12×12×18 exo Terra which will probably house a pair of luecs. Your tank looks great and I'm eagerly waiting to see what it looks like scaped with plants

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## Mohlerbear (Feb 20, 2014)

Tank looks great, good job derimming. What did you make your fan duct out of? Also, from my personal experience, have a back up plan if that door fails IF you have frogs in it in the future. I did the same method as you. On two tanks actually(two 40 gal verts). One silicone, the other clear epoxy. Both doors failed and fell off lol about 6-7 months in. 


Loading bowls and building vivs! Braaap!
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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

The duct was formed with coroplast sign board.

I think in an emergency I could tape it shut with plastic wrap.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Nice viv I just did one recently myself. 
Mine is housing an adult crested gecko. He is a big guy lol.

I derimmed the tank as well. Which wasn't that bad with the method I devised.
Here is some pics:









This viv is a Euro style viv. Local glass shop cut the glass for me.









The side was cracked so I replaced it with 4 different panes. Since my air channel comes out the top of the vivarium I had to place 2 pieces of glass next to the chloraplast, then one piece of glass, then the vent then another piece of glass. Since the glass is installed around the channel I can pull my fan out any time for replacement. 









As for the door well it is one huge piece of glass. I took some E track and let one channel of the track protrude and I epoxied the track in place so all I have to do is slide it over and lift it off. No hinges or anything. 









That wood is a huge piece of Cyprus. Still trying to find a nice fern to put in the left corner that's why it's empty. 









I also have a fogger hooked up to it but I never used it. It does look pretty wicked with the fogger though. 
That wood is a huge piece of Cyprus. 

Mot trying to hijack. Just wanted to show you what I did with mine.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Great tank DragonSpirit, I like how you did the door!


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

I got plants yesterday. Everything arrived in good condition and was pretty easy to get into the tank. The vines are Peperomia Prostrata and pilea glauca. I wasn't quite sure how to plant these, so i put some in the ground, some are tucked into the background, and a few are stuck on the branch with sphagnum moss.

The cryptanthus is bigger than I expected, and I'm not sure I have space for it to be honest. 

I really like the Tillandsia Ionantha 'Fuego'. It looks amazing, hopefully it likes where I've placed it. Will these grow roots and attach themselves? Mine has none at all, it is just balanced on the branch with the help of a bit of mounting wire.

I spread moss slurry all over the tank. At the top it gets a bit dry, but in most other places it stays pretty moist. Hopefully this takes off in a few days and really grows.

Do I need to fertilize somehow? Most people here have animals which seem to provide enough nutrients to the plants. I'm worried with just plants my tank is a bit sterile.



















I'm still working out what to do for the heater. Probably going to wind a heat cable around inside the duct. For now I have dangled a 10W fixed temp aquarium heater into the back to warm things up just a bit. This has kept my temps in the 62-72 range. I'm hopeful that a 25w heater will produce temps in the 67-77 range. If it is too warm, I can add a thermostat.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Wow it's coming together great. I think I might wind up doing a corner background to for my 18"x18"x24" in the future.
Idk how well that cryptanthus will do in the substrate they tend to rot like bromeliads though some have put some in substrate. I've never had very good luck with it. 
I've never had luck with Tillandsia Ionantha 'Fuego' or tillandsias for that matter they all rot on me 
Hopefully you have better luck than me


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Yeah I'm a little worried about the tillandsias. I actually moved them up onto some cork bark on the background because I was worried the branch they were on was too wet. The branch holds water really well and doesn't seem to dry out. I suspect I've been overwatering because the bottom half of the terrarium is always nearly saturated. However, the top half dries out just a few hours after heavy misting. This may be partly due to the height of the tank and the temperature gradient, but I think I may also need better circulation to keep conditions a bit more uniform. I'll wait a few weeks and see, it may be that having the gradient makes it easier to find a place where each plant can be happy. It is hard to gauge how well things are doing. I haven't done this before so I don't really know what to look for. I've noticed the pilea glauca leaves have all turned up toward the light, that's good i guess. 

I've ordered a 25W heat cable for the duct. I'll be installing it this week and will try to post an update then.


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## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

I've got two ionantha fuegos in my 18x18x24 AGTF vivarium, and I've found that as long as they are placed in the upper half of the tank, they won't rot on you, but if you want them to maintain their bright red color, they need lots of light and air circulation.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

That's good to hear jarteta. Mine is about 8" from the two 30W CFLs, and just a few inches from the vents now. It had dried out considerably when I went to mist this morning, and the outer leaves didn't feel as soft. In your experience, how long does it take them to root and mount?


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## jarteta97 (Jun 13, 2014)

I couldn't tell you how long it would take for them to root, about once a month one of my tree frogs knocks it down  I have mine secured with some mounting wire, but I'm sure fishing line would be an inconspicuous way to keep it there if you worry about frogs knocking it over.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

So I got me heater mostly figured out. Bought a 25w heat cable from amazon. Used some leftover material from the duct build to hold the cable. The whole assembly just slides into the top of the duct over the fan. Gets pretty warm but I'm not too concerned about it.



It brought the tank temperature right up. I'm measuring about 78 in the middle of the tank while the CFLs are on. I'll probably add a thermostat for it soon just as a fail safe and for when the weather warms up a bit.

Unfortunately the heater made another problem in the tank pretty obvious. The air is not well mixed. With the heater running a significant thermal gradient forms. I'm measuring as high as 84 at the top and as low as 73 at the bottom. I don't think I mind the temperature gradient too much, but it means the top of the tank is dry and the bottom is soggy. In the picture you can see condensation on the glass. The bottom half of the tank is constantly over 100% humidity. I thought my fan would provide enough circulation, but between the plants and screen blocking the flow, I guess it isn't enough. I'll be ordering a significantly stronger fan for the duct, and if I need to I can use the old fan in the main tank. Hopefully this evens things out.



Plants seem to be doing well despite my constant fiddling around with the tank parameters. The fittonia has picked up a lot more color, darker green on the leaves and darker red on the veins. Maidenhair fern grows like crazy. Not sure about the peperomia prostrata, don't know what to look for with that species. I think the tillandsias are doing alright, they are putting out new growth.

Do I need to feed my springtails or fertilize the plants since there are no animals in the tank? I was considering misting with a weak fertilizer solution occasionally...


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Draikan said:


> Do I need to feed my springtails or fertilize the plants since there are no animals in the tank? I was considering misting with a weak fertilizer solution occasionally...


Nah they should be ok I have grown plants and I have never used fertilizers. 
You really don't want chemicals in the viv no matter how diluted. 
Kinda worried about that temp though. That's pretty high for the top. 
You really should bring it down below 80.

You should get some LED spot lights those CFLs just aren't gonna cut it.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Really appreciate the feedback dragonspirit. I have some questions about what you said, I hope it doesn't come across as me challenging your advice.

Fertilizers: Do you really consider these to be harmful chemicals? I'm accustomed to aquariums where we routinely dose NPK + micros. These are all compounds that would be found naturally in fish waste, is this significantly different in terrariums? I'd expect frog poop to contain most of the same stuff. Regardless, it's good to know they aren't necessary for the plants.

Temperature: Agreed. The top is too warm. I hope to fix this by mixing the air better. Hopefully this produces a more uniform environment, cooling the top and warming the bottom.

Lighting: Are you concerned with the amount of light generated by the CFLs being insufficient, or the heat being too much? From the plant's reactions so far, I think the lighting may be ok. Once I get air circulation figured out and the heater on a thermostat, the CFL heat shouldn't be too much of an issue (I hope). I have been eyeing the Jungle Dawn LED spotlights from NEHERP, although they aren't at the top of my upgrade list right now.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

My replies are in bold 



Draikan said:


> Really appreciate the feedback dragonspirit. I have some questions about what you said, I hope it doesn't come across as me challenging your advice.
> 
> Fertilizers: Do you really consider these to be harmful chemicals? I'm accustomed to aquariums where we routinely dose NPK + micros. These are all compounds that would be found naturally in fish waste, is this significantly different in terrariums? I'd expect frog poop to contain most of the same stuff. Regardless, it's good to know they aren't necessary for the plants.
> 
> ...


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Great info again, thanks for all the advice. I'll consider an LED to increase penetration, and I'll be sure to keep updating here as I work through the other issues!


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Draikan said:


> Great info again, thanks for all the advice. I'll consider an LED to increase penetration, and I'll be sure to keep updating here as I work through the other issues!


No problem man. I just want this tank to be all that it can be and for it all to work out for you.
btw there is a cheeper option but Idk how well it will compare to the nice ones. I use knock off Jungle Dawn bulbs and they work great so maybe this one will do you good. It has the right spectrum.
This light has the same specs and it's only $15 Amazon: Leegoal 30W LED white Flood Light


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

I've thought a bit more about the lights. For now I think they are sufficient. It is definitely true that the light at the substrate is dim. However, the fern and the fittonia are both growing fine. It is likely that the fittonia would be colored better with higher intensity light, but that's ok. All the higher light plants are on the top half of the tank. The Broms and tillandsias are all within 18" of 60W of 6500k CFLs. I'm pretty sure this should mean they are lit decently, but I'd love to continue receiving feedback on this.

My new fan was supposed to arrive yesterday, but there has been no sign of it. Hopefully it turns up tomorrow. In the mean time I have made a couple changes in the terrarium and done a few calculations to help me better understand the moisture and thermal changes in the tank.

First I moved the Tillandsias just a bit. I moved the albertiana to a piece of cork bark because I felt the branch was staying too wet for it. The cork is usually damp, but doesn't stay wet in the same way the branch does. The fuego I moved down a few inches lower to get it out of the path of the air leaving the vent. The air leaving the vent is currently as hot as 86 degrees and as low as 60% humidity, this was crisping the fuego a bit. I'm still in the process of addressing the temp/humidity issues, but for now the fuego should be a bit happier. I also moved the cryptanthus to the background, it looks better there and hopefully the conditions are a bit more suitable.









I've also attempted to calculate how much air I am actually flowing through the duct because I initially expected the 20CFM fan I purchased to be plenty. Because I know the heater is a 25W unit, I can use this information and the temperature at the inlet and the outlet of the duct to calculate the flowrate of the air. When I do this I get about 5.5CFM. Given the screens blocking the fan, this is plausible. It also means the air in the terrarium only gets turned over about 70 times per hour, significantly less than I had planned for. 

Now if the air entering the duct is at 100% humidity, which I think is a reasonable guess due to the constant condensation in the bottom of the tank, the heat created by the heater dries the air to as low as 60% humidity. 

Increased circulation should help to reduce these effects considerably. The heater will still be at 25W, but the increased airflow will result in less temperature change, and therefore a smaller reduction in relative humidity. Now the tank will still be too warm, but the temperature and humidity in the tank will be more uniform. Once I have the fan dialed in, I can add a thermostat to finally get the temperature in the tank correct. I don't want to add the thermostat yet for two reasons. First, I want to make these changes one at a time to better understand the effect they have. Second, until I can make the temperature in the tank more uniform the effect of a thermostat would be very dependent on where in the tank I place the sensor.

This is the plan at least. It's always possible there are parts of this I don't have quite right. I'll update as I make the changes and hopefully this will help other people be successful with tall vertical tanks.


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## ollie (Oct 26, 2014)

Has anyone on here used the lights linked in the post, I checked them out but was kinda steered away after reading the reviews.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

New fan is in the tank and running! Initial results are good but I want to let it run for a few hours before posting details.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

So the fan seems to work pretty well. It dropped the temperature difference significantly. Before the fan upgrade I was seeing 84 at the top and 73 at teh bottom. Now it's about 81 and 76. The air at the top is definitely more humid. The top of the viv still dries out a little faster than I would like, but this is probably because there is so much more airflow. It currently takes about 4 hours for all the moisture to evaporate from the background at the top, any longer than this without misting would harm the moss I think. I am misting by hand, so overnight the top gets a little drier than I would like.

If I add a thermostat to this I could set the temp at the top to 77 and expect the temp at the bottom to hover around 72. There would be a drop to around 70 and 65 at night when the heater can't keep up.

However, I wonder if it would be best to just not heat the tank at all. If I do this I would expect around 60 at night and 70 ish during the day. Remember that there are no animals in this tank. Will these temperatures be a problem for the plants? I'm wondering if it would be best to just have a cool tank with better moisture control. Right now I have a warm tank with more sensitive moisture (due to the heater and fan).

If I switched to an LED spotlight in one of the sockets. Would it be too much light for the bromeliads and tillandsias at the top of the tank? When I hear about people burning their plants, is actually too much light? Or are the plants just too close to hot lights?


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## FrogTim (Oct 1, 2015)

Draikan said:


> ...
> However, I wonder if it would be best to just not heat the tank at all. If I do this I would expect around 60 at night and 70 ish during the day. Remember that there are no animals in this tank. Will these temperatures be a problem for the plants? I'm wondering if it would be best to just have a cool tank with better moisture control. Right now I have a warm tank with more sensitive moisture (due to the heater and fan).
> 
> If I switched to an LED spotlight in one of the sockets. Would it be too much light for the bromeliads and tillandsias at the top of the tank? When I hear about people burning their plants, is actually too much light? Or are the plants just too close to hot lights?


Those temperatures would be fine for plants. However, if you plan on keeping frogs in there eventually I would aim for the original target temperature and humidity. It'll be a pain having to dial in everything again after your plants get used to growing in those conditions. And from personal experience, frogs were a lot less active at lower temperatures like the ones you listed.

Moss can take a bit to acclimate. My moss completely died off shortly after being planted regardless how wet I kept it. ~2months later and it's starting to green up and fill in. You can try wetting sphagnum and placing it around the moss up top to help it retain moisture. I find moss grows very well on dried (then re-hydrated) sphagnum.

"Light Burn" is actually caused by too much light. Although the heat from a light can burn a plant too. If you go with 'spotlight' style or focused optics on your LEDs make sure you don't put plants directly under the 'beam' and high light loving plants up top should be fine. My bromeliads loved being 8'' from a 16 x 3w fixture, but my selaginella did not. Heat shouldn't be a problem but I'm not sure which LED lights you're considering.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Thanks FrogTim. While the heater + fan was working to control temperature, it kept the bottom just a bit too soggy. I'm starting to see a little mold in one of the wetter corners. I'm hopeful that the springtails can clean it up, and it is probably just part of the tank cycling, but I suspect all the moisture at the bottom wasn't helping. I think that when I decide to keep frogs I may do it in another tank that can maintain a little better conditions for them.

I was thinking about this LED spotlight from jungle dawn.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Vivarium seems to be doing well. All the plants are growing well. The peperomia prostrata is starting to put out tons of shoots from the ends and the nodes. The moss mix on the background is sprouting new growth all over the place, I think it will look excellent when it has grown in.

I am seeing a bit of mold in the tank near the bottom. It is white and fluffy on the top of the substrate and leaf little in the wettest corner of the tank. There is also a stringy type growing under the substrate. I did add a springtail culture, but don't see many of them. If I look closely I can usually find one or two. Should there be more? Is the mold normal? I've reduced my misting to try to dry out the mold a bit.


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## gretchenellie (Aug 7, 2007)

Do you mention here where you got your plants? Specifically pilea glauca? Thanks!


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Everything is from NEHERP


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## roundfrog (Jan 27, 2016)

I like how the bg gives it depth


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## Exasperatus2002 (Jan 21, 2014)

Great looking build.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Have some more pictures. I'm not sure you can tell in the pictures yet, but the moss slurry is greening up and sprouting all over the place. Broms are puting out roots and securing them to the background. Peperomia prostrata is putting out shoots all over the place, at this rate it will be draped all over the terrarium.

Still growing mold though. you can see it in the last two pictures. It is growing in the back bottom corners of the tank and along the substrate under the leaf litter. There is a white mold that grows first, and a brown that follows behind it. I'm not sure If they are separate molds, or if the white turns brown when it dies. I still hardly ever see springtails, don't know what to expect from them. Should they be able to handle the mold? I'm considering using hydrogen peroxide to treat the mold.


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## heygang911 (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm in the process of making my duct currently... what is your new fan? can you provide some more information about your configuration


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## Darby (Oct 9, 2015)

Draikan said:


> Vivarium seems to be doing well. All the plants are growing well. The peperomia prostrata is starting to put out tons of shoots from the ends and the nodes. The moss mix on the background is sprouting new growth all over the place, I think it will look excellent when it has grown in.
> 
> I am seeing a bit of mold in the tank near the bottom. It is white and fluffy on the top of the substrate and leaf little in the wettest corner of the tank. There is also a stringy type growing under the substrate. I did add a springtail culture, but don't see many of them. If I look closely I can usually find one or two. Should there be more? Is the mold normal? I've reduced my misting to try to dry out the mold a bit.


White mold is normal for new vivariums. I usually add more springs once a week. I like to be able to look in and see them crawling around. 

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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

I'm using this fan. It's pretty strong, but the extra power means I can adjust it to be just right.

And this voltage regulator.

Anything else you want to know about?


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Well this tank has been planted for about a year now. It spent the first six months growing in, and the next 6 getting overgrown. I was just trimming it today and decided to take some pictures and post while I did. Everything is doing pretty good. The switch to the jungle dawn spotlight made a huge difference, especially to the bromeliads color. I trimmed out a lot of wandering jew while taking the pictures. It had grown across most of the plants and was getting pretty messy. The purple wandering jew has a beautiful color, but I don't care for the green stuff as much.

In the next few months I'm planning to change up the tank quite a bit. It's really hard for light to get past the mossy branch to the bottom, so I'll be thinning out the plants down there. I also want to try to drill the bottom so the tank is easier to drain. The plan is to run a small sump with a heater, to help warm the tank from the bottom just a bit. I also want to add a fogger. I think everything has been just a bit too wet in general, so I want to back off the misting. Right now I mist a lot to keep the moss wet. The maidenhair fern especially seems to be getting tired of the constant moisture.

We discussed fertilizer a little earlier in the thread. I have been occasionally misting with a very diluted nutrient solution. It has made a huge difference to plant health and color. I'm using dyna grow foliage pro. The moss especially is much greener with the occasional nutrient misting.

Here are the pictures when I started trimming:

































And now here are some of how the tank looks right now after trimming:


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## KommentBox (Aug 26, 2016)

Beautiful color! I especially like that purple wandering Jew. 


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## MoFrogs (Nov 13, 2016)

GREAT looking build!! 😁

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## Damon Ryan (Nov 13, 2015)

Plant list! This looks sweet! 


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Plant List:

NEHERP moss slurry

Maiden hair fern
Pilea involucrata
red fittonia

green wandering jew
purple wandering jew
ficus pumila
peperomia prostrata
pilea glauca

cryptanthus bivittatus
Neoregelia 'Eoz'
Neoregelia 'Chiquita Linda'
Neoregelia olens
Tillandsia ionantha v. stricta
Tillandsia ionantha 'Fuego'


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## Wisakejak (Aug 13, 2012)

So are you just using one of the spotlights?


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

The fixture is a double deep dome with one of the jungle dawn spotlights in the front socket and a 40W CFL in the back socket. The spotlight is many times brighter than the CFL. For some of the plants close to it it is actually too bright. The CFL runs 12 hours a day and the spotlight is only on for 6. I intend to raise the fixture up a few inches in the near future to decrease the intensity just a bit.


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## FlyFishRI (Jan 15, 2017)

Really amazing build, I look forward to what the future brings you and this stup!


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## GOSKN5 (Dec 31, 2011)

Wow the colors are great... looks very natural

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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

So I think I'm ready to try some frogs in here. I've been trying to decide what to get and eventually decided that some kind of thumbnail would be best. I was going to get some french guyana yellow, but I've recently come across the Iquitos. I'm thinking that I like the color and call of the Iquitos better. What do you guys think? Is a group of 4-5 Iquitos well suited for this tank?


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Well I have been busy! I ordered frogs, started fly cultures, built a stand, and drilled the glass!

The fly cultures seem to be going fine. I got the melanogaster kit from Josh's frogs and started two fresh cultures as soon as they arrived 10 days ago. It looks like the larvae are just starting to come out of the media and move up the sides of the cup now.

The stand is just plywood and 2x2s, with the door made of MDF. I spray painted the inside black for just a bit of moisture resistance. The outside is painted with satin black oil based paint to match some other furniture. I don't have great pictures of the stand right now, but the viv looks better anyway!

I drilled the tank, it made me super nervous but I really wanted to do it. I made one hole each for the mistking, fogger, electrical (fan,thermometer), water drain, and water return. The mistking, fogger, and electrical holes were all very easy. They were smaller holes right through the back into the duct. I just put a towel down and had a helper use a squirt bottle to keep the bit wet. I went really slow. The bottom was a bigger deal. I had to remove the plants from the soil. I put the leaf little into a bowl, substrate went into a sterilite container, and the false bottom went into a trash bag. Then I drilled two holes, one for drain and one for return. There was originally going to be 3, but after doing two I decided not to push my luck. Each hole got a 1/2" bulkhead. Now the water in the false bottom drains into a small sump before being pumped back to the tank. This means I have a constant water level in the false bottom, and I can heat the tank from the bottom up by putting an aquarium heater in the sump. This should help me bump the temps up just a bit in the winter. I can also drain off excess water without having to open up the tank and disturb the inhabitants to be...

Messing with the substrate like I did probably isn't great for the tank. It must have messed up all kinds of balance and habitat in the soil and leaf litter. It probably killed tones of springtails. Since putting back together I have sen lots of little mold spots. But the springtails are everywhere, the mold this disruption created seems to be causing a springtail boom. Amazing. The substrate's balance is probably a little bit off now, but I'm sure it will settle out in no time.

I will also be keeping a small humidifier in the stand. There are a few pictures of the tank with the humidifier on. I think it looks awesome. Unfortunately I dropped the humidifier on the garage floor, doh! So I need to get a new one.

I've purchased a group of 5 Iquitos from a breeder who was nice enough to hold them for me while I did all of this. They should be shipping in about a week. I can't wait! I've kept aquariums for a long time, and I had various reptiles as a kid, but never frogs! Especially not anything this colorful.

Ok pictures for you guys:


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## Keni (Feb 1, 2017)

Very cool build. Looks alot like how I did my 40g breeder vert. I like the idea of how you heated the viv. Here are a few pics of my viv.


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## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

nicely done with the upgrade, i can imagine how nervous you have been while drilling i dont even want to imagine the horror of it going wrong

looks really cool with the fog, i also did some tests lately since keeping the moss so moist is not in favor of a lot of other plants/substrate.

did you add a extra support in the stand for the bottom of the tank or you just have the "border" of the stand which the tank rests on? not sure what time and a bit of weight will do to that bottom glass...

as im looking to build a bigger tanks sometime this year i was wondering how happy you are with the size of the tank, it looks like the height is really nice, but how is it with the footprint? would you do a bigger one if you would build another tank or are you completely happy with the size?


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

The weight of the tank is on the pvc angles that run down each side of the tank. You can see these earlier in the construction. These pvc strips rest on the 2x2s at the top of the stand. The bottom glass panel only holds up the weight of the substrate.

I have learned a lot from this viv and there is a lot I would do differently.

The moss is tricky. I mist a lot to keep the top of the tank wet enough to grow it, even though the circulation fan blows air right across the top of the tank. I should have just stuck to a regular misting schedule and let the moss pop up in the places that suited it best.

I have thought a lot about the size of this tank. The height is really nice. I love having different layers with different brightness. I'm really glad I went with a tall tank, I might even go a few inches taller next time. However like you said, the footprint isn't great. There isn't much space for different kinds of plants. The hardest part is actually the lighting. The LED spotlight I use is great, and plenty strong for this height. But the tank is so narrow that the background, moss, plants, and wood all cast shadows and the bottom ends up pretty dark even though the spotlight has enough "punch" for this height. This footprint is just a little too cramped.When I took the substrate out to drill, I cut all the plants back. When I put the substrate back in I only replaced a few of the plants in the brightest areas. I want to get a few small ferns for the lower light areas. Initially I did a poor job of choosing low light plants for the bottom.

If I could tell my past self what to do, I probably should have just started with a 36x18x36, and drilled it immediately. I should have made the background, and then spent a few weeks testing the waterflow, misting, fogging, lighting, and airflow before adding any plants at all. This is just my preference though. This tank is also a centerpiece in my home, the look is very important and it isn't purely a frog habitat to me. For the people who just want their next great frog habitat this advice probably isn't quite right.


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## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

ok i see some frame in the first construction pics so i assume part of that is used for the bottom thing

thanks for all the information, i also learned a lot from my small tank and am putting together things/specs that i want to do for the bigger tank. 
i already had 40x(20-24)x48 (bit more height to compensate the substrate so youre comments assure me that the size what i should aim for^^
i dont know if i ever will get frogs so plants are a important part of the tank.

the one thing i am not sure is how i would do the air flow for such a big tank but the European design seems to work good for the small one so i assume it will do similar on a big one.
how is the humidity/air circulation low in your tank? you think if you wouldnt do the extra moss misting it would be better with your "closed" design versus a European slit at the bottom and top so air can pull through?


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

40x24x48 sounds awesome! The height should give you lots of room for leaf litter, and maybe some open air at the top which could look really nice. It's also ok to have a dark bottom, just don't put higher light plants there!

I haven't ever had a euro style viv, so take this with a grain of salt. I sealed my tank for the moss, and because I keep it in a cool room and don't want to lose my warm air in the tank. I think most combinations probably work great, the only one that might be a bad idea is a sealed tank without internal fans. It seems many plants wouldn't like this.

In my tank, the bottom is a little cooler and wetter. It depends on your plants/animals, but I think it's good to have some variation. When I get frogs, this should let them move up if they get cold and down if they are too hot.


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## Merkwood (Feb 24, 2015)

Very nice! I'm sucker for nice stands too good craftsmanship 

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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Thanks merkwood. tbh the stand was a pain in the ass to build. The 2x2s weren't straight, and the plywood wasn't flat. I had to assemble the frame one side at a time on the plywood sheets to try to keep everything square. When I unloaded the 2x2s I realized they were more like 2x2.5s, the hardware store had ripped 2x4s


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## Curtis (Mar 6, 2017)

This is a great tank. I love how clean the frameless glass looks with the black stand. Its typically very difficult to build something to hold up a lot of weight with such small wood member sizes. You should be very proud. Fyi, wood usually comes in a smaller size than what is listed. Just google nominal size vs. Actual size lumber. A 2x2 is normally 1.75x1.75.


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## opie (Jul 26, 2016)

I love your layout. You did a really good job. Your stand is very modern too love the way it looks with the fogger


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Fedex overnight package is arriving tomorrow, what could it be...?


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## smatthew (Nov 21, 2016)

Draikan said:


> I'm using dyna grow foliage pro. The moss especially is much greener with the occasional nutrient misting.


Big thumbs up for the foliage pro. It's made my plants a lot healthier.

BTW - if your substrate is coco coir based, try adding a little magnesium, i.e. Epsom Salts. Coco Coir is known to have problems with magnesium deficiency.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

Frogs are here! I came home from work to let the 5 Iquitos out of the box and into the tank. They all seem to be in good condition. They climbed out on their own, and started exploring. Wow they are tiny, maybe 1/2" max. I knew they would be but I'm still impressed how cute they are. I've seen a few eating springtails. They've slowly been exploring up the tank. One made it halfway up and stopped in the big brom cluster in the middle of the tank. Three are climbing around the back wall near the cryptanthus, and the last one has stayed in the leaf litter. They don't seem shy, I don't think they care when I watch them. We will see what they do when the lights dim.
































I'm going to feed them soon, should I expect them all to come out to eat? I don't know what normal R. Amazonica feeding behavior is.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

I fed them some flies last night. Three of the frogs came out to eat. They acted curious more than hungry. I saw them try to eat flies a few times, but it looked like they got the flies stuck on their tongue and then decided to spit them out. I'm not sure if the flies are too big or if the frogs don't like the dust. Should I add more flies each day, or wait till they get eaten?

I checked on the frogs before work this morning. One was perched in the cryptanthus. The other four had all chosen leaves of the same bromeliad. I guess they like that one in particular for some reason? I was actually surprised I was able to find all 5, they are so small they could disappear and never be seen again if they wanted to.

These frogs are so cool! I wish I had found this hobby sooner. It's amazing you can keep plants and animals like this healthy in a terrarium!


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

I occasionally see a frog down in the leaf litter. Probably looking for springs. I can't tell if the frogs are eating or not. Is it enough for me to just offer dusted flies everyday? Or do I need to be making sure each frog eats somehow? Should I expect them to know to come down out of the broms to eat?


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)

These guys are doing great! They are all fat and growing. Pretty sure they are bigger than when I got them. I can usually find one or two in the leaf litter hunting, and often see them strike and eat flies. My springtail population has boomed ever since I started adding fruit flies. The FFs are filthy bugs...

The tank in general is doing well. Staying between 68-78 degrees most days. I can't really see any temperature preference in the frogs behavior. I changed the direction my fan moves the air, it now blows air from the top of the tank to the bottom. That change actually made a really big difference in how the moisture in the tank is distributed. It is much more even now, the bottom doesn't seem to stay as soggy, and the top doesn't dry out as fast. Between that and the addition of the humidifier I am slowly backing way off on misting.

I've been thinking of changing up how this tank is planted. The moss is now growing out of control. It's probably over an inch thick off the background, and is chocking out many of the vines. I may try to remove the moss and encourage shingling plants to grow in in its place. I'd also like to have more broms since the Iquitos like them so much, but I'm not sure where they would go.

I believe these little guys are 4-5 months old at this point. When should I expect them to start calling?

Pictures to follow.


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## Draikan (Oct 23, 2015)




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