# Anyone Up For The Challenge?



## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

I have a situation that I have worked extremely hard on since IAD. 
I have 7 retics (I had 8 and the smallest one from my first group of 4 from IAD died last week) just to be clear, I got 4 from IAD and I got 4 from Patrick. These two sets of four have never been near each other but both sets have a very frustrating problem, not one of them will eat fruitflies. Period. Will not eat them. Now just a note, I don't know the original owner of the 4 from IAD but I do know Patrick and I know that they were eating pinheads for him. I get pinheads from him and nope, won't go near them.
Now here is what I would like to do. I would like to include every single thing I have tried. Bear with me though because it is not a short list. After you have read my entire list of "everything in the book" if you feel that you have any ideas what so ever that would get these guys to eat dusted fruitflies consistently, and if your idea is the one that gets them to eat those dusted fruitflies I promise you that I will give you one of their babies if and when they start laying. Obviously I can't give any kind of gaurantees on them having eggs, etc. but I have 7 and I would think that I would get lucky enough to have a pair or two. Also, the other thumbs that I got at the same time are all calling like crazy and have some very fat females. So I believe that it will just be a matter of time.
Now, having said that, let me say, first off I will take ideas first come first serve, I will go by date and time. Please believe me when I say that I will keep my word on this. I don't want any kind of big hassle over this. I have neither the health nor the energy for any kind of hassle, and if the owners/mods of the board do not feel that they want this post then they can delete it. Just keep in mind that I strictly want to get these guys eating.
Right now they are eating springtails, they LOVE their springtails, but as you know it is not easy getting vits/cal on the springtails. For the most part I think they look healthy but not as full and plump as my imitators and my vents, although as I told Patrick there is one from him that is getting a little chunky. From the set of 4 from the IAD my smallest one died, not without a fight on my part. when I found him he was sprawled out and just really looking dead. I immediately placed him in a minute amount of Pedialite (did I spell that right?) and nursed him through the night. He got better enough to sit up but he was just too tiny and thin. I gave him single springtails for him to eat, yep single ones, he ate a few over the next few days but he was just too sick. He was basically the runt of the bunch. Tiny, tiny. The other three are doing fine, not nearly as tiny as he was and not as thin. He just could never put on weight from the get go.
Ok, here goes. Now, since it is 4 o'clock in the morning, this is not going to be in any kind of order :shock: 

There are times that any one of them will be quick to snap up a tiny ff and will be even quicker spitting it back out. Now you are going to call me crazy but after spitting them out they proceed to give me the look of utter disgust at how I could possibly give them something so vile, and you just can't even imagine the look that they give me if for some reason they can't spit it back out and it has to go down.

Normally what they do when a ff enters their "space" they turn their backs to it. Refuse to even look at it. *IF* they will even look at me after putting ff's in, believe me it is not a happy look. I know that you are all just thinking that I am off my rocker but I have witnesses, and my husband just rolled with laughter at the way they would look at me or would turn their backs and refuse to look at me at all  I have to say though that it is just a funny sight to see. Now with the pinheads it is even more amazing. One of them might, just might, stalk a pinhead, they won't snap it up, just stalk, but the minute that cricket turns back toward them you have never seen anything high tail it out of there so fast. It is quite a sight to see this tiny cricket moving in the direction of the frog and the frog can't get away fast enough. On that note Patrick can attest to the size of the pinheads, I get them from him. Tiny, tiny.

I have talked with Patrick about this on several occasions and we both are just at a loss as to why this is.

With both ff's and pinhead crickets I have tried the usual of dusting and not dusting.
After the normal trying to just simply put ff's in the tank or their boxes when they were still by themselves, I stopped that because it would just scare them.
I purchased long wooden skewers from the grocery section, I took one ff at a time, I took the time to find the tiniest one and I would stick the tip of the skewer (the skewer did not scare them like having a hand in there) to the ff's behind. Smush down just enough so that he would still move but could not move fast enough to scare them. Nope. (I have been doing this since IAD with all 8 now 7, on an almost daily basis. I would say that they all probably took a couple a piece over all of these months.) I hung onto my older cultures because they would produce some really really tiny ff's at the end of the culture life. Nope.

I tried taking the same smush-butted ff and dunk it in water, softened them up, slowed them down more. Nope.

Dropped the smush-butted ff into the tank near them but from high above so they did not see my hands. Nope. Turn their backs.

Using the skewer I would put the smush-butted ff on the glass so that he would wiggle and catch their attention. Nope.

I have dropped single ff's in their "creeks" let the ff's struggle around in the water to really catch their attention. Nope.
Although I do have to say that they absolutely LOVE being in the water. My set from Patrick in particular love the water. That is where you will usually find them, constantly playing in and jumping into the water. Sometimes sitting with just their little noses sticking out, they love it. They don't love to see a ff in their water.

I tried to take the smush-butted, water logged ff and sneak it into one of their tiny little dishes that I use for springtails. To me it looks like a plump springtail that was slightly moving. Nope.

Now here you might be saying, stop the springtails. Been there done that. Let's just say I kind of compared that trick to when my daughter would not eat her food when she was little and was told she had to stay at the table until she ate. She could have been their three days! She outlasted me and so did these guys. Now some might say that I should go longer with no springtails but I could see them getting smaller and thinner. I did not and could not let them go so long that they would start getting so thin. Lets face it, these guys are tiny to begin with and it doesn't take much to make them skin and bones.

I had a few tiny, itty, bitty, little, I guess they were gnats, flying around in their tanks. I trapped one of them and got the ole skewer out. Nope.
I put the skewer away and blew on the gnat to make him drop to the ground in front of them. Nope.
I blew the gnat into the water. Nope, nope.

I took a minute amount of their vitamin mix and mixed it with the water in their tiny little dishes and put springtails in them. Just hoping that at least some of the mix would be consumed. I have no idea how much if any at all was getting to them.

I have to wonder if, since they love being in their water areas, is there something out there that I could add to the water that would soak in, and man! how much to add? And with that, unlike feeding a dusted ff when you can see that it is eaten when it was still covered with dust, how would you ever know they were getting enough to make a difference.

Well, it is past 5 am now and I am really, really getting tired and sick from being up for so long. I know that I will remember more when I have had time to rest, but for now I hope that you have a really good idea of what I have tried, that I have given them my all, my time, my patience and my love, and will continue to do that, but I want them eating ff's!!! :evil: 

Oh yes, I have tried the wingless ffs, the winged ffs and I am sorry to say that the pinheads did not escape the skewer either. I know that there must be some cruelty law out there that I am so totally breaking by abusing all of these ffs and crickets     

I am going to send this off now and I truly hope that someone, somewhere has an idea that will work, and I will be the first person to be thrilled about giving one of their babies to that person because it will mean that much.

Thank you and I apologize for the length of this, there was just no way to make this short and sweet.

You can email me, pm me, call me, do whatever you want, I am ready to try anything.
Rhonda

p.s. Please don't tell me about any kind of slimy slithering worm, that is the one thing that I just can not stand to work with. Husband says NO termites. I have also considered trying to get some of those tiny, tiny ants but I have not been able to get outside lately and besides I really, really don't want an ant colony starting up in their tanks. I would also be happy to post some photos of them. They are pretty active, Patrick's group are way more active than my other group. That group pretty much has their favorite places to be and that's where they are but my Patrick group will cover the entire tank on any given day, and you are liable to find them anywhere. There is even one of Patrick's that about gave me a heart attack the first few times he went straight to the very top of the water wall (I having it running from inside the top of this particular wall)and would jump striaght down into the water only to get out and do it all over again.


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## RSines (Feb 15, 2004)

Hi, 
I don't feel I can offer any help, but I would really like to extend my sympathy. You sound understandably very frustrated. 
A couple questions though. Do you feel it is just the size of the springtails the retics crave? 
Since it’s the summer, have you tried collecting bugs from your lawn? I know there are various methods like the 'bug bazooka, sweeping, etc." I never have done this, but it may be a start. But, I think getting calcium and vitamins on those things would be just as difficult with the springtails. 
Why no termites? They may seem like potential ticking time bombs waiting to escape, but I understand they would dry out long before finding any moist wood. 
Maybe you should separate them? Some retic breeders keep their juvenile frogs separate until adulthood. I would put each in a 2.5 or 5 gallon tank with a glass lid for easy observation. Try the different foods again and see if different things would for different frogs. Maybe the largest frog is taking the food, or you don’t see others eating the flies, etc. 
Lastly, maybe time will be your friend. Keep feeding them springtails until they reach full size and try the ‘starve’ with fruit fly/pinhead method again. 
Keep up the good spirits! 

-Richard


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Interesting post, as I have the same problem with one of mine, and another I keep an eye on. I like you started out with 6, and loss one where I have no idea where it went. It either got out or died under something in the tank. Then lost another due to the problem you are talking about I think, but can not be sure. At the time it was still sperate from all the others, and in a small container. As it stands now I have 2 that I keep in a custom tank and are doing well. They apear to be a pair, and only get ff's. They seem to eat well, though I rarely see them eat.

Now for the other 2, I keep one in a 10 gal and it is huge, and eating ff's. Now the last one was in with this one, but was removed about 2-3 months ago. It has been to the edge of death and back a number of times, and is still going. It seems to only eat springtales, and could careless about the ffs in the container. I have treated it with Bytril, and Metronidazole, now at first the Bytril seemed to help, and it fattened up a little, but then back to its skinny self. I'm almost convinced it is not sick, and just a thin frog with maybe something else wrong. I'm sure I will lose it at some point, but am doing my best not to. I may get a fecal done, but have yet to find one.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

Try not feeding fruit flies for about a week and then try again. Frog do have a memory and will recognize food they don't like, although it doesn't seem to last if you don't keep feeding them the same critter. 
Have you tried ants? Maybe 3 or 4 little black ones you find under rotting wood. As far as the fruit flies do they eat the non-dusted ones? 
Have you tried feeding them fruit fly larva?

Just trying to help,


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

hmm ff larva, thats a good idea, I may try that today...


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

If these were my frogs I would stick a small slice of banana in the tank to attract the flies, so they aren't wandering around scaring the poor little guys. Then dump in about 10 fruitfies, then leave them alone. Then you can count them the next day and see if they ate any. One of my vents as a freshly morphed froglet wasnt eating fruiflies, so I feed it springtails, and fruitflies hoping he would start eating fruiflies, but he seemed to like the springtails so much more. So I cut off springtails and only offered flies, it took him 2 days to start eating them, but now that he started he wont stop eating them. I would suggest not offering any more springtails, then offer fruitflies, and if any start losing weight offer them springtails again. Or you could possible try using parasitic wasps, to get them used to flys, then hopefuly they will get to a point were they see fruitflies as a food source.


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Kyle all my frogs love ff larvae! They like them almost as much as termites, but I hear they are really fatty so you dont want to feed them to often.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

Very interesting. My thoughts are that they have probably have a steady access to springtails which the substrate is baound to be crawling with due to the sole feeding of these. Springtails are noted for being more nutritious than FF's and pins and with that said I would say they probably taste better too. Considering that the retics have such an easy access to a much smaller food could be the factor in them not wanting to eat FF's. I know you probably don;t want to do this, but I would relocate them to something that doesn't have any springtails in it and see how they respond to the flies/pins. 

The retics I have will eat just about anything they can fit in their mouths....from the largest melanogaster to the tinyest springtail.

-Bill J.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

geckguy said:


> Or you could possible try using parasitic wasps, to get them used to flys, then hopefuly they will get to a point were they see fruitflies as a food source.


Nice call on the parasitic wasp.
Here is where I get mine: Beneficial Insect Co.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

*update*

Well I went to check on mine after all this, and its not doing well. I tried a pedialite bath, and it seems to spring to life for about 2 seconds. I have removed it, but I think its over. Still watching it, but not looking good. I think the pedialite might have shocked it a little. Waiting to see...


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Well just checked on it again and its back on its feet. I put it back in with some food, we will see. I put some pedalite in a droper and put a couple drops on it. We will see...


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

To me it sounds like a problem with bacterias/microorganisms in their guts and tank/substrate. Don't just try to give em medicine, rather make new tanks with different substrate/s. 

Med will most likely stress out the thin ones and you will still have bac in their tanks. 

Try the one with coco peat and clean leaf litter. That's what I would do.



SB


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

I'd also systematically moved them to a new/clean tank let say every two weeks to avoid bacterias/microorganisms bloom.

After they gain some weight, I'd give a drop of diluted baytril.

Now, what do you feed your springtails and how do you culture em? You could gut load em given the right type of food. 


SB


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

Steelcube,
What I hjave been doing is I put some charcoal in the bottom of a plastic shoebox, then some orchid mix cut about 50% with sphagnum moss.I have been feeding mine Freishmann's active dry yeast.It is a brand of baker's yeast.
Anyway, they seem to be doing great with it.I started my culture with maybe 20 springtails this spring because my original culture crashed from neglect and a infestation of mites.It didn't take it long to be filled with them.I mainly keep them around for the newly morphed imis and feed them to my other frogs like casts, adult imis, and such.
It's fun watching my big bicolors munch them down too :lol: 
Good Luck,
Mark W.


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Kyle have you contacted dr. frye about your skinny retic? Maybe you should get a fecal done?


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

The one I have an issue with has been in a small container alone for months, and it is changed weekly or biweekly. Not sure it is bacteria at this point as it has been treated for some time. I keep it in a larger container with damp sphagnum moss.

I have not had a fecal done as I have been unable to get a sample.

FrogByte11, I hope it doesn't seem like i'm hijacking your thread, it was not my intent. Just having the same issue you are, or at least it seems.


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Rhonda why don't you try what bill suggested and move them to a tank with no springtails, so if they are hungry they will have to eat the fruitflies. I don't think there is a problem with them disliking fruitflies, but they like springtails alot better, and there seems to be a constant source of these in your tank so they just eat springtails instead.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Mine will not eat ffs at all, I tried that and had to bring it back from just about starving with springtales.


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## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

Rhonda,

Sick frog will choose smaller and softer food such as springtails. It could be from bacteria, flaggelata or simply drug overdose.... my opinion anyway.

SB


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

I'm not sure if she has been treating hers or not.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

Retics are a touchy species.
They seem to be a tough froglet to raise. 
I don't really think that bacteria or a parasite is to blame. I have seen several retics just "not grow". I think it is more gentic than anything. 
I would not remove them from springtails, if they are skinny this will not help. I have seen more than 1 retic not eat fruit flies and just shrink away.
Try the fly larva and parasitic wasp. 
I don't want any of your retics Rhonda I am just trying to help save yours.


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Rhonda are any of your retics skinny at all? If not why don't you just keep them on springtails until they are bigger, and if you want another food source try parasitic wasps.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

Has anyone tried to dissolve/suspend vitamins in a fluid? Could frogs absorb vitamins in this way?


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

Richard,
I have not done the sweepings for several reasons. In my immediate area, the neighbors treat their lawns with everything under the sun. As far as finding a "safe" area...I have only been able to leave the house for doctor's appts and that zaps everything out of me. That problem has been many months now. The larger ones are not taking from the smaller ones. I will watch them for hours, from a distance. None of mine are shy, they are out and about, no one is hogging them. And lastly, they are adults.
Thanks so much for your comments.

Klye,
I feel for you because I know what you are going through. Don't worry about taking my thread, maybe we can both get help for these little guys. Thank you for sharing and lets keep each other updated.

Benjamin,
I have went a week, I have went longer than a week. I know they had plenty of time to forget the ff's when I had surgery here a while back. 
As I stated above, they will not, and I have tried, take either the dusted or non dusted. As I said above, I would like to try the tiny little black ants but I don't want a colony starting up in there. When I have several ffs in a tank I can find them and get them out if needed, I am afraid that the ants would go where I would not find them, make more ants and freak out my frogs. I could try an ant with one of the frogs by putting them in one of their shoeboxes where the ant can't hide. ff larva, ok, that is interesting, how would you collect enough of the larva to even have a regular amount. I say that because I looked at my cultures and there are not larva that would just be altogether to collect. They are scattered throughout the culture mixed in with a ton of casings and old casings (?) and just general gunk. And are they dusted? My main reason for wanting them to eat ffs.
Thank you for your comments.

Geckguy,
I have fruit in the tank. That makes it real easy to see how many are still around the next day, if I had to guess, I would say...hmm...all of them.  Believe me, I would be doing some kind of funky dance around here if it would have just taken two days of no springtails for them. As I said above, I have tried witholding the springtails, they did start loosing weight and I gave them back to them. As far as the skinny question, like I said, they are not skinny to the point of looking sickly, the one that died was thinner than pencil lead, but he was that way since I got him. They are grown. I will check into the parasitic wasps. I will read up on them.
Thank you for your comments.

Hey Bill!
How's it going? On a side note, my vents are doing great. Calling like crazy and one is very fat. I know that I have a male and female and I think one other may be a male but I am not sure about the 4th one, that one is getting wider. Wow would I be lucky enough to have two pairs?!?? The fat one was really really fat and then I noticed the other day that she was not quit as fat so I have been looking around for some eggs. It is always a game of cat and mouse going on in that tank. Anyway, I wish my retics ate like my vents  
I understand what you are saying about relocating where there would be no springtails and I can try that again, but these guys, both sets were all in their own "shoe" boxes for a very long time. Much longer than any of the others just for the fact that I was not able to get their tanks done before my surgery. So they had a much longer time of being on their own and getting all the individual attention. 
Thanks for you comments and I will post some new photos of my vents.

Thanks Benjamin, I will check out the link you provided.

SB,
I am not sure if you were talking to me or Kyle, I have not medicated mine and their tanks were new. In both tanks, false bottoms, with regular water changes, I have used the coco peat. Everything was brand new and cleaned very well. Every plant was cleaned extremely well. Also, keep in mind, before their tanks, they were in their own boxes which were kept very clean, paper towel change, rinsing plants and leaves, and cleaning box on a constant basis. As far as the tanks go, I clean them up, dead leaves etc. on a regular basis but I am just not able to, physically or money wise, able to build new tanks right now to switch them back and forth and I honestly think that would cause them stress. They are all really happy with their surroundings and all have their favorite spots and diving boards :lol: 

**CRAP :evil: ** I accidently hit the submit button before I was done, I am now finishing my responses with the edit feature (love that feature)

Ok, as far as the springtails go, I have 6 seperate cultures going. One is in strictly wood charcoal, one is strictly coco peat, one is a mixture of all the above, one has charcoal on one side of the shoe box and coco peat on the other.one is the original container and material that was shipped to me by http://www.flyculture.com (WOW these guys have some fantastic food! I got these springtails, the colony, very early in the year, used that supply to start all the other cultures, with one of the cultures being in a very large rubbermaid container, much larger than the "shoebox" size, and the original is still producing like crazy.) I feed them yeast, premium flaked fish food, leaves from my plants that have started to die (they love those) some lettuce now and again. All are stacked on top of each other and covered with a heavy blanket and thick towel. They thrive much better, for me at least, when it is very dark. Oh I have the springtails :lol: When I feed them to the frogs, I use a small turkey baster, suck up a good pile of them, then squeeze out as much of the water as I possibly can, then I put them into a petri dish that has water and tiny pebbles in it. The springtails crawl around the pebbles and or float in the water. They will all sit in their dishes eating and pick it clean. (they would also camp out in those dishes on those days that I withheld springtails, that was some mean looks  
Thank you for your comments.

Hicksonj,
That is a question (dissolving in their water) that I have ask serveral people and I have never been able to get a straight answer. What kind would it be? Would it be their normal vit/cal mix? how much would be too much? and how much would be enough to make a difference?
Thanks for your comments.

Shelley,
I understand what you are saying about the cloth. But on that note, I have to wonder if I would be any better off. In other words, are the fruitfly larva getting dusted with the vit/cal mix? If not, then the springtails would serve the same purpose and are plentiful with an easy way to feed them to the frogs without any mess and they love them.
Thanks for your comments.

geckguy,
See the above. If the larva aren't being dusted, then there is really no difference (in my mind) than feeding the springtails which I know they will eat and love.
Thanks for your comments.

If I have missed anyone please forgive me. I will read through again and if I did I will make sure I answer. I can't remember if I covered it, but I know what you mean about having an unlimited supply of springtails build up in their tanks but just remember, they were doing this when they were in their shoe boxes where it was impossible for a springtail build up. As far as the ff larva go, I don't think that I would be any better off. I want to, as my best friend said, get them off their baby food and get them taking their vitties :lol: I will research the parasitic wasp, can they be dusted? I don't know but will read up. Also, please know that I would have no problem with them eating the springtails forever, they love them, will sit in their dishes waiting impatiently for their dinner, but I want them getting their vit/cal so that they can stay strong and healthy and have healthy babies. Don't want SLS, not have seizures etc, that come along with never having their vit/cal.
Thanks again. I am going to the "Patrick" tank now. I see that my little daredevil is just about to make his repeated dive from the top of the cliff, oh, no just missed it, he is already down and making his way back up. Also I don't know if I said it, but these guys, especially my "Patrick" frogs are not shy at all. They are out and about on any given day and any given time of the day and are active Especially DD the diver :lol: 
Thanks again.
Rhonda

p.s. On a completely unrelated note, remember when two of my imitators died right after I got them? Well, I have an update, the two remaining survivors are doing fantastic, very healthy and get this.. I GOT A PAIR!!
The male is calling like crazy and the female is getting fatter by the day. It is nice to have some good luck once in a while


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Well I don't really know that this will be of any help, but... I was using ff culture cups from Ed's for a while. The ones with the fine see through fabric around the top of the cup and then a lid with holes drilled in it. I have switched from using the fabric now and the only reason that it sucks not having it anymore is for the larva. I always had cups that had a ton of larva on the fabric stuff at the top of the cup. All I would do is change the piece of fabric and put the ones that were covered in larva in my tanks. The frogs LOVED them!! They would just go to the fabric and pick them off. You can buy the fabric anywhere I'm sure. I found some at Wal-Mart. I have wanted to try putting a piece of the fabric into my cultures on top of my excelsior to see if it happens to get covered in larva or not. I just haven't tried that yet. If anyone else has a good method for collecting larva please do tell! Hope that helps.

-Shelley


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

When I need larvae I make the media a little watery and they tend to stay on the sides of the cup, then I get a spoon and scrape them off the side and put them on a feeding dish, I dont use excelsior


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

When I need larvae I make the media a little watery and they tend to stay on the sides of the cup, then I get a spoon and scrape them off the side and put them on a feeding dish, I dont use excelsior in these cultures.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

With only a few ants you don't have to worry about them setting up a colony. Most of the ants you will catch will just be workers. Only feed a few ants at a time maybe 5. Watch the frogs and see how they react to them. You may see a tongue drag you may not. If you want I can send some of the ones I have fed before, PM me.
Aphids would also be nice to try, but sounds like collecting is out of the question right now. 

Collecting larva can be a pain, but worth a shot.
If you make the media a little watery and heat the bottom up most larva will race for the top of the culture. I would make special cultures for this perpose.

Parasitic wasp are great, just $$$. I used colonies to feed my newly morphed retics and they loved them. Even more than springtails.


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## Guest (Aug 1, 2004)

Benjamin,
Thanks for your reply and the information on the ants, I have thought of them but was worried about that, I am glad to know that they won't set up housekeeping  I will go out and find some and try them. I very much appreciate your wonderful offer and if I can't find any in my backyard I will let you know. Oh, I was wondering though, do you think the ants from my backyard would be safe? I don't treat my yard with anything but the neighbors do. I have a very large lot so I have more yard than they do. That is a great idea on how to get the ff larva to the top, and also making a culture just for that purpose. Do you dust them?
I have no problem spending the money on the parasitic wasps, believe me, in the big scheme of things, with the outfit I have here and the money invested.....I would get them  I know that most everyone here can relate to that :wink: 
Thanks so much.
Rhonda


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Rhonda I have found that the larvae seem to fatten up frogs just like termites, so I think they would be good to frogs into breeding condition, and I understand your concern with dusting, but I think larvae would have more vitamins than springtails, so that should help. I don't think the parasitic wasps can be dusted, but maybe somebody else who knows more about them can give us the answer. How small were the pinheads, maybe you can get day old pinheads, which are about as big as springtails, but you can dust them. I hope some of this helps. I will see if I can dust the larvae, I get back here with my answer later.


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

I tried dusting them and it worked. Now lets see if they will eat them.


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Well Rhonda good to hear yours are at least eating. I do see that you would want to dust them. Have you tried putting the spring tales in a small lid, and then sprikling some dust on them? Not sure of any other way, but at least its a little.

As for mine I think its about done. I've been delaying it with pedialite, but its about as skinny as it can get so I don't think it will be much longer, before it is gone. I'm actually to the point were I almost feel bad not just letting it die. I know if I as sick and suffering i'd want the plug pulled.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2004)

This may be a little off topic since I dont have any frogs yet, but when I had my veiled chameloens when I lived in Maryland I used to put the vitiams in the FF culture and mix it up. I also did this with the floor beetle cultures, and for the small pinhead crickets. It was reccomended to me by a vet to do this to make sure the babies got the correct amount of vitiams and not an overdose wich is just as bad as not enough. In the wild they only get vitiams from what they eat and they dont get dusted. IMO if you have the vitiams in the FF culture and are feeding FF larve then you should not have to dust them. As far as the FF cultures go you could use coffee filters on the top of the jars instead of fabric. I also remeber a web site that sold aphids on line but cant find the address for them. Will have to look for it and see if I can find it. One last thing has anyone ever tried to feed their frog magots? Used to feed them to my chameleons and they loved them. Might be another food source but you will want to keep them in the fridge so they dont turn into flies which is one mistake I had made with a cup of them. My wife was so pissed off when about 100 flies where flying around the appartment.

Mike


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Rhonda-

I have also dusted the larva before. I also don't use excelsior and they tend to get on the sides of the cup. I have had them fall out before when I was getting flies. I just left them in there and dusted them. They still got gobbled up. Great advice for collecting larva Ben (or is it Benjamin?)! Again, good luck Rhonda.

-Shelley


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2004)

Rhonda,
Collecting ants from your yard may be safe, but I am not sure I would risk it. There could be water run off and who knows the ant colony could have moved to your yard because they didn't like the chemicals they got sprayed with in your neighbors. 

Shelley,
Ben, Benjamin, what ever works for me... 

Mike,
If you can, find the website that sells aphids. I would love find some. In a BDG newsletter it showed how to culture aphids on pea plants. It is also in the new _Dendrobatidae The fantastic Journey through Ecuador-Peru-Colombia_ 

Ok now I need to post the links on culturing aphids


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## geckguy (Mar 8, 2004)

Here is a link for a aphid supplier http://stores.mgfx.com/bb/insects.htm


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2004)

I would like to take this moment to end this post as well. The retics will be fine. I want to thank you all for your wonderful comments, I really appreciate it. 
Rhonda


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