# Waterfall/Cascade/River for Viv?



## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

I am noob at building vivs and altho I read a lot of information about vivs, I haven't found much information about water features.

About the river; I guess you need to do something special regarding the false bottom? I am planning to use egg crate. Do I need to separate with glass/plexiglass & silicone the false bottom area and the river setup? I guess I need to if I want the river water level to be near my ground level right? How would you guys do that? Do you have any pictures or threads that shows very well how to do so?
Then you need to add a filter right? Does it need some specific filter or any fish tank filter would do? I have no experiences with fish either by the way.

About the waterfall; I already have a few small pumps, and I know I need to be able to reach them if needed! Now I was going to buy a few plastic tubings and bring the output on top of a few rocks in the corner of my tank. I am not sure on what to use where the water will be dripping and flowing back into the river (the cascade). What are you guys usually using for waterfall setups?

For those interested, I am building a viv in a 3x2x2 foot tank, and will probably be housing 3 terribilis in there.

Sorry if my english is bad.
Thanks in advance for all opinions and tips!


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

bumpage!!!


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## bratyboy2 (Jan 29, 2010)

whats a false bottom? im hearing this alot and im so confused as to what they are for or used for?


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## dendro-dude (Jan 25, 2010)

I'm not sure what you mean about the river... I have ideas that you could use that wouldn't require do anything to your eggcrate.

You would have to start your pump and see where the water flows, then silicone small rocks and some silicone blocking that water flow and into the river where you want it.

Bratty boy- a false bottom is where you use eggcrate (usually) to hold your substrate and other items off the floor of the tank. Water is kept beneath the eggcrate, which helps with humdity, a clean tank, and water features if so wished.

Search "false bottom setups" and you should find some pictures

Hope this helps


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## bratyboy2 (Jan 29, 2010)

thanks for helping me out too!


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## dendro-dude (Jan 25, 2010)

We froggers help each other out


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## WVFROGGER23 (Jan 5, 2010)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/49868-my-new-29-gallon-viv.html


I just did one a few days ago. I had some trouble finding "egg crate" then I consulted the forum. "Egg crate" used on this forum is actually a fluorescent light diffuser. It is sold in Lowes and Home Depot in the section with the ceiling tile. Although this differs from area to area. You may find it in the lighting section as well.

I used pvc pipe ends to raise the egg crate up to creat the false bottom. I also cut out a section big enough to set a tupperware container to house the pump. I drilled holes in the container big enough to allow quick water flow to refill the container. I also put screen over the holes to serve as a filter. I ran a silicone tube from the pump outlet to where I wanted my water feature. I covered the egg crate with fiberglass screen to prevent substrate from entering the water. I made a water feature out of slate and aquarium silicone. I used aquarium gravel as my base layer to allow quicker drainage. It adds to the weight of the tank considerably but it doesn't bother me because I have been lifting heavy things since high school. I didn't put any substrate under the waterfall. I just left a thin layer of gravel so that the water would drain back into the false bottom almost immediately. Then I sloped the substrate up to the opposite end. 

I hope this helps and makes sense.


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## tasteslikechicken (Sep 8, 2009)

You're welcome to look at my blog....the viv isn't finished yet- I still need to figure out a way to make the lip so it's actually a waterFALL rather then a water drip-and-flood. The goal with the "pond" area is to have semi-aquatic plants there, maybe a "lily" (I forgot what they are called, we sold them at a LFS that had a decent pond business...they float like lilies but aren't, want to say one is water lettuce)

Anyway...Look at a lot of others vivs....theres some great ideas out there.


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## SmackoftheGods (Jan 28, 2009)

I've got a huge tank laying around and I've been considering dong something maybe a little similar.

First, you don't need a filter, but it's probably a good idea to periodically drain your tank and replace it with new water. 

Let me tell you what I do with my false bottoms. In every false bottom I use, I make it such that it's about an inch and a half short so that when I push the egg crate to the back of the tank there's about an inch and a half of spare space. When all of my sculpting is done I fill this space in with rocks. I think this make a nicer vivarium look than hiding the false bottom with silicone. I think if you used this method and let your river drain into the front of the tank you'd have adequate drainage while not draining into your substrate and making your substrate too wet (this is especially a good idea for terribilis as terribilis, when in a tank that is too wet (like when the substrate is constantly wet) are subject to foot rot). 

Personally, I think if I were to do a river I'd just use Great Stuff on top of the egg crate and carve out the river, then silicone rocks to the Great Stuff. This seems like it would be the easiest method to me....


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## waterbed fred (Jan 10, 2010)

SmackoftheGods said:


> Let me tell you what I do with my false bottoms. In every false bottom I use, I make it such that it's about an inch and a half short so that when I push the egg crate to the back of the tank there's about an inch and a half of spare space. When all of my sculpting is done I fill this space in with rocks. I think this make a nicer vivarium look than hiding the false bottom with silicone.
> 
> that is EXACTLY what i do with the crushed coral in my s/w tanks. talk about truly completing the all natural real world look!!! dont waste your time trying anything else if you want it "au-natural".


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## Maggotthegoat (Jan 29, 2010)

I built my water fall/brooke out of plexi glass and made a removable top to acess the pump and filter im using one of thouse little fountain pumps and in front of that i have fish filters to clean out debris


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

I think I will be separating my false bottom from my water feature, with plexiglass and silicone. I will be using a pvp pipe in the corner of my tank to be able to reach my pump/filter. I will building a waterfall out of GS and rocks that will drip down into a pool.
If I don't have a drain, my best bet is a fish tank filter? Should I put one in the false bottom too? I'm starting to have some nice ideas after watching those viv threads! I will try to post a few pics too when I start the construction


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## Toby_H (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm in mid progress of building a couple of Vivariums using styrofoam to create rock-like structures and then coated with Drylock. Drylock is eggshell (off white) when purchased but color can be added to make it grey or brown (the seller may suggest against adding color but with experience doing this on several other projects I encourage you to do this).

Using Drylock covered styrofoam you could make a simple backgroundthat controls the path of the "waterfall" (better described as a 'dripwall' usually)...

You could also use styrofoam to make a "pond" to catch the water from the waterfall as well as a "river" leading away from the waterfall...

If the sidewalls of the "pond" & "river" are 1.5 inches tall... you could make the end point/wall of the "river" 1" tall... which would allow the water to flow over the end spilling through the eggcrate into the resevior beneath the egg crate. You could disguise the end point of the river by making it appear to flow under a rock.

After a bit of trial and error... I've stopped using silicone to 'glue' styrofoam together at any intersection which I plan to 'paint' with Drylock. I've been 'painting' both surfaces of styrofoam with Drylock and clamping them together using the Drylock as 'glue'.


Those are just a few things I've learned and have had success applying lately...


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## FwoGiZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Toby_H said:


> If the sidewalls of the "pond" & "river" are 1.5 inches tall... you could make the end point/wall of the "river" 1" tall... which would allow the water to flow over the end spilling through the eggcrate into the resevior beneath the egg crate. You could disguise the end point of the river by making it appear to flow under a rock.


I really like this idea!!! I had some other ideas in mind but I might reconsider..
If I do this, I will have a much smaller pond tho (which is good for the frogs) but I was thinking of having a big one that would go through one of the side to the other side of the tank (wide). The waterfall would fall from a rock high in the corner of the tank, and I would be able to toss a few guppies or any other safe fish in there. I know it's not recommanded but I will make sure the fishes are parasite/disease free and I still have to read about those but it isn't my priority now! I need to finish reading about water features so I can actually start building!

So my questions still remains: Do I really need to separate my "pond" area in which the waterfall will throw itself from the false bottom; as the water level will obviously be much higher in the pond, than in the false bottom.
Then I was thinking about using a filer and a pump for my water feature (waterfall + pond/river) but do I need one for the false bottom? I guess not?

I saw some guy on youtube and vivariumforum.com that was building some pretty realistic waterfall made of styrofoam and acrylic paint but I don't think I have the talent to do those things! I think I will stick with glueing real rocks all around for my waterfall

Thanks a lot for all your inputs guys! It's been real helpful, I've been through those viv thread you gave me and it gave me a few good ideas!


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## Toby_H (Apr 6, 2009)

FwoGiZ said:


> Toby_H said:
> 
> 
> > If the sidewalls of the "pond" & "river" are 1.5 inches tall... you could make the end point/wall of the "river" 1" tall... which would allow the water to flow over the end spilling through the eggcrate into the reservoir beneath the egg crate. You could disguise the end point of the river by making it appear to flow under a rock.
> ...


I'm not sure why you are suggesting this would require you to make the pond smaller... or are you just saying it would allow you to make the pond smaller...

What I'm doing is, using 1/2" Styrofoam for the bottom of my pond, then using 2" thick Styrofoam for the side walls and 1.5" Styrofoam for the end. All Styrofoam being painted with Drylock tinted dark grey to look like rock.

Using this approach the pond could be as large or as small as desired, and the river can be as long and winding as my (or your) creativity allows. I have mine so the water spills over the lower foam end and through a sponge before falling into the reservoir beneath the false bottom. This sponge and lowered end wall will be hidden beneath a (false) rock.




FwoGiZ said:


> So my questions still remains: Do I really need to separate my "pond" area in which the waterfall will throw itself from the false bottom; as the water level will obviously be much higher in the pond, than in the false bottom.


I think you answered your own question here. Since the water level of your pond will be a few inches higher than the water level of the reservoir beneath the false bottom, yes I do believe you will be best off making them separate.

I'm sure there are designs that would allow the reservoir and the pond/river to be one and the same, but it would create a handful of other concerns/obstacles including but not limited to keeping water out of your soil/substrate area. If height is an issue, this approach may be worth looking into, but from my (brief) analyzations it seems like it would bring more complication than it does benefits...




FwoGiZ said:


> Then I was thinking about using a filter and a pump for my water feature (waterfall + pond/river) but do I need one for the false bottom? I guess not?


I think the pump that feeds the waterfall and the water returning to the reservoir from your water feature will create enough water movement in the reservoir without needing an additional filter for the reservoir.

There are actually quite a few options of what to use to lift water for your waterfall. The first question to ask yourself is how much water do you want flowing through your "waterfall" (usually better described as a 'drip wall'). Filters and pumps are commonly rated in "gallons per hour" or gph. As a general reference, your bathroom since on full blast pushes around 250~300 gph...

For a "typical" dripwall on a smaller aquarium, I think you would want 100 gph or less. Aquarium "powerheads" are designed with small paddles on the impeller and do not work well for lifting water, though they work great for creating water movement within a body of water. Terrarium supply stores sell small water pumps in this range (>100 gph), though I do not have any personal experience to suggest a brand. Using a canister filter for an aquarium is also an option, though I personally feel it will generally be overkill. If you do consider this approach keep in mind that (with almost all filters) the gph rating is for the filter with zero resistance and the media suggested by the manufacturer will cause restriction. In aquarium use most canisters actually move 50~60% of what their motor is rated for. 

Pending the flow rate your looking for, I think it is likely that the mini terrarium pump will be your best bet (for 300+ gph look at aquarium pumps). As a little trick to consider to make a "prefilter" for such a terrarium pump, take a sponge, put a slit in large enough to insert the pump. This way water will have to flow through the sponge before entering the pump. Vwallah!




FwoGiZ said:


> I saw some guy on youtube and vivariumforum.com that was building some pretty realistic waterfall made of styrofoam and acrylic paint but I don't think I have the talent to do those things! I think I will stick with glueing real rocks all around for my waterfall


I'd like to encourage you to give the Styrofoam a shot. It's very simple to carve and there is a wide array of coating materials you can consider. I'm using Drylock (latex concrete sealant) with a few ounces of black tint in it making it a nice dark grey. The guy at the paint store will give you some flack about adding the tint as the manufacturer suggests against it and adding it will void your warrantee, but your using it to coat Styrofoam, not seal your basement... 




FwoGiZ said:


> Thanks a lot for all your inputs guys! It's been real helpful, I've been through those viv thread you gave me and it gave me a few good ideas!


Sorry for plaguing you with so many of my ideas. I just finished one fairly elaborate Styrofoam background/divider in a 50 gal (48" x 18" @ 13" tall) and am in the middle of making one for a 75 gal (48" x 18" @ 21" tall). The 75 gal has a false bottom with a water pump pushing water up to the 50 gal, through a waterfall/pond/river, through an overflow (hole drilled in the bottom of the aquarium), where it goes through a waterfall in the 75 gal, into a pond, through a river and then finally returns to the reservoir beneath the false bottom...

I'm brand new to frogs but have made backgrounds for aquariums & reptile cages and have several rather elaborate plumbing structures for my aquariums.

It all depends on how handy you are in the DIY department and what areas of DIY you are the most handy/comfortable/interested in working with. I find it 'fun' to do the building and very rewarding to have the result. 

Best of luck... be sure to share pictures of what you come up with. I'll be sharing mine soon.


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## tinkgirl77 (Dec 30, 2012)

I know that this is a very old thread. But It had all the info I was looking for! I figured I would resurrect it for any and all looking to create this drip wall/pool/waterfall look! Looking around the forum I have noticed that alot of people were looking for the same info!


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## Rseb1203 (Aug 14, 2013)

Check out mine. Kinda laid out how its set up. It's completely open under the false bottom and just put the pump (make sure you can get your hand down there for maintenance!) and it recirculates.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/119218-first-build-46-bow.html


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