# What is the smallest fruit fly culture I can make?



## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

So I just bought the 1.1 pound of Repashy superfly.

I also got my first booming tub of melanogaster flightless fruitflies.

I want to make the Repashy last as long as possible using the _smallest_ amount of culture as possible.

It said for a regular 32oz cup culture to use roughly 3 to 4 tablespoons of food. Then 2/3 cup of water.

What is the smallest bare minimum culture I can do for breeding fruitflies? How many flies plus how much food + water?

How often for this smaller - than - normal culture do I replace it?

Regular size lasts for 4 weeks. Ideally new cultures are made every 2 weeks... what do I do?

I feed tiny jumping spiders so reality is I dont need SOOOO much flies or food for them!!

Help plz.


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

Westielover83 said:


> So I just bought the 1.1 pound of Repashy superfly.
> 
> I also got my first booming tub of melanogaster flightless fruitflies.
> 
> ...


Trust me you wont be short any flies if all you're feeding is jumping spiders. You can mix it 1/1 with corn flour to make it last longer, that's what I used to do when I fed inverts. You wont get as many flies as fast, but it will last longer.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Small culture will crash quicker. Just make them the normal size! They will continue to produce for a month or so. With smaller cultures, you will just end up making more of them.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

Chris S said:


> Small culture will crash quicker. Just make them the normal size! They will continue to produce for a month or so. With smaller cultures, you will just end up making more of them.


Thank you for responding! Yeah I figured that could be the case.... its just I dont need so many flies for baby spiders who eat like a few a week... and the food I wanna draw it out as much as possible. To last me many months.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Trust me you wont be short any flies if all you're feeding is jumping spiders. You can mix it 1/1 with corn flour to make it last longer, that's what I used to do when I fed inverts. You wont get as many flies as fast, but it will last longer.


Hey!! Nice to meet you! 

I didnt buy corn flour but I did buy a box of potatoflakes! I could use those maybe to supplement?

I still dont know if I wanna do full (4tbsp) cultures. They said on the website the 1.1 pound makes like one culture per dry ounce. And 21$ for 17.5 ounces was pricey for me. 

Do you think the potatoflakes sound like a good idea? You sure I should still make their reccomended batch size? If so how much flakes do I add per reccomended amount? (3tbs)


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Potato flakes are the base ingredient in all FF medias. Seems counterproductive to buy the best FF media and then add filler to it. 

It may be advisable to follow the recipe strictly until you get things figured out. Trying to extend production to months will potentially cause a sharp decline in production caused by mite infestations. Best to figure out how to do things the successful way and then use that experiential knowledge to alter practices as needed. 

Extra FFs can be culled by freezing them. Coming up short leads to a shortage of food for whatever you're trying to feed.

If it were me in this situation I'd make one cx per week. Any less can lead to gaps in production.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

Socratic Monologue said:


> Potato flakes are the base ingredient in all FF medias. Seems counterproductive to buy the best FF media and then add filler to it.
> 
> It may be advisable to follow the recipe strictly until you get things figured out. Trying to extend production to months will potentially cause a sharp decline in production caused by mite infestations. Best to figure out how to do things the successful way and then use that experiential knowledge to alter practices as needed.
> 
> ...


Heres the issue with that. . . I am feeding baby jumping spiders who only need a fly or two twice a week. . . They eat _live_ flies and culled ones would be a waste along with having cultures too big. . .

I see your point. But I am afraid with how miniscule numbers of flies I need, that it would be wasting fly food and extra flies.

I still need a continuous culture going though, but even if it was a few flies it would still work...


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Westielover83 said:


> But I am afraid with how miniscule numbers of flies I need, that it would be wasting fly food and extra flies.


The advice you'll get here is: better to have more flies than you need than to take any chances of not having food for your pets.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

Why not just try making some tiny cultures in smaller jars and see how they produce? Don't mess with trying to add stuff to the media. It works great the way it is. Don't add an extra variable. Just play with it and see what you can figure out. It might be that they crash too often but, it is a cheap enough system to play around with and not feel like you are wasting too much.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

I just remembered that FF cxs in Europe are about half the volume as they are here in North America. 

I'll change the title of this thread to something relevant to try to attract some attention from someone with relevant experience.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

Socratic Monologue said:


> I just remembered that FF cxs in Europe are about half the volume as they are here in North America.
> 
> I'll change the title of this thread to something relevant to try to attract some attention from someone with relevant experience.


I saw the title change and was like ooooo!! Haha.

Whats stressful is I am waiting on an answer to make my first new culture this week with my new flies.

As time goes on I worry.  So more people, the sooner, the better!


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

bulbophyllum said:


> Why not just try making some tiny cultures in smaller jars and see how they produce? Don't mess with trying to add stuff to the media. It works great the way it is. Don't add an extra variable. Just play with it and see what you can figure out. It might be that they crash too often but, it is a cheap enough system to play around with and not feel like you are wasting too much.


Maybe they won't if I still make a new one weekly but a third of the media size?


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Westielover83 said:


> Whats stressful is I am waiting on an answer to make my first new culture this week with my new flies.


I mean, you could follow the manufacturer's directions to get started and then figure out how to make the cultures smaller in the future ...


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

Westielover83 said:


> Whats stressful is I am waiting on an answer to make my first new culture this week with my new flies.
> 
> As time goes on I worry.  So more people, the sooner, the better!


I think you have all the information you can get from an internet group Now it is on you to experiment and figure out what works for you all the while maintaining a reliable source of feeders.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

bulbophyllum said:


> I think you have all the information you can get from an internet group Now it is on you to experiment and figure out what works for you all the while maintaining a reliable source of feeders.


Not yet! I still have a question. (Read below post)


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Trust me you wont be short any flies if all you're feeding is jumping spiders. You can mix it 1/1 with corn flour to make it last longer, that's what I used to do when I fed inverts. You wont get as many flies as fast, but it will last longer.


Hi!! So the reason this is so dramatic for me is I don't really have a job, still in college and wanted to keep a few jumping spiders I found in the dorm. So with the high cost of college, a 21$ pack of fly food isnt cheap. But keeping my practically free spiders fed with a continuous source of food is still important to me. They are really dang cute and are great dorm friends lol.

I financially cannot afford to spend 21$ on flies every single month to make cultures _every week_. When that is also my food money. You know? I only get like 50$ a month. I gotta make this last, ideally a year. . . If not a year at least a handful of months....

If smaller cultures crash quicker my only option is to add a source of food. I am not trying to snub anyones ideas, but financially its tough for me and I absolutely have to make this last..... awhile!

I dont think it would be humane to feed dead culled flies to my baby spiders... I could try... but that seems sad!!!

Ill see if I can hitch a ride with a dorm friend and get the corn four. 

My plan here is to try your 1 to 1 ratio and then split the dose so regular tablespoons of fly feed for a single _large culture_ (dry ounce) I will do half so 2 tablespoons... then (half // half) with the media and corn flour. I have white vinegar I can mist to keep the culture from drying out. 

If it comes down to it, I can do test jars. I can play around with half cultures. If I need to buy diatomaceous earth to kill mites I may have to.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

Here's a thread comparing the cost of commercial media. Not sure it helps you a ton, in your situation, but maybe it will. 

Cost of commercial FF media

If I were in your situation I wouldn't try to keep the jumping spiders as pets, I would just observe them "in the wild" in my dorm room.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

fishingguy12345 said:


> Here's a thread comparing the cost of commercial media. Not sure it helps you a ton, in your situation, but maybe it will.
> 
> Cost of commercial FF media
> 
> If I were in your situation I wouldn't try to keep the jumping spiders as pets, I would just observe them "in the wild" in my dorm room.


Sadly I am already ankle deep lol. Have the jar of Repashy, a collection of containers, few blocks of coco core and the spiders have all made their hammocks in their homes. Bought misters for water and vinegar, and a roll of mesh.

No going back now 

Also bought a starter culture I gotta care for.

So today I am gonna go get the corn flour and see how that does. (Apparently works well! According to the other dude)

I use recycled jars! And I think for the media I can use cut micro strips of rolled baggies. I saw that reccomendation here before. 

And before I even got startted with this biology project I did a ton of reading from this forum to get ideas.

I have all the stuff, I am just anxious 

If worse case scenario happens I have money to do so, but for now I am trying to do this cheap cheap and not get into my backup stache for bugs.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Trust me you wont be short any flies if all you're feeding is jumping spiders. You can mix it 1/1 with corn flour to make it last longer, that's what I used to do when I fed inverts. You wont get as many flies as fast, but it will last longer.



I bought these, gonna do a 1 to 1 ratio. I think this is the closest thing to "corn flour" I found. I will make a culture with this. Probably going to do 1 tbsp of this and 1 tbsp of Repashy, some clear mesh in a spiral vertical in the media instead of the wood curlies. I am gonna go with your suggestion for now and go from there! Feel free to give more tips as I go! Dms are always open.


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

Westielover83 said:


> I bought these, gonna do a 1 to 1 ratio. I think this is the closest thing to "corn flour" I found. I will make a culture with this. Probably going to do 1 tbsp of this and 1 tbsp of Repashy, some clear mesh in a spiral vertical in the media instead of the wood curlies. I am gonna go with your suggestion for now and go from there! Feel free to give more tips as I go! Dms are always open.
> View attachment 308991


Make sure to add some cinnamon to help retard mold growth.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Make sure to add some cinnamon to help retard mold growth.


Wont the Repashy keep mold down?

Couldn't I just mist the top of the media with white vinegar?

If no, how much cinnamon? 

Thank - youu!!


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

Westielover83 said:


> Wont the Repashy keep mold down?
> 
> Couldn't I just mist the top of the media with white vinegar?
> 
> ...


Both white vinegar and cinnamon work, Repashy doesn't mold on it's own but can when you add a lot of filler. You can also slow down the flies by keeping them cool.

What kind of jumping spiders do you have? depending on the species you may need to give them bigger prey then melanogaster in the future. If you don't know then you can post a picture.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Both white vinegar and cinnamon work, Repashy doesn't mold on it's own but can when you add a lot of filler. You can also slow down the flies by keeping them cool.
> 
> What kind of jumping spiders do you have? depending on the species you may need to give them bigger prey then melanogaster in the future. If you don't know then you can post a picture.


That would be lots of pictures haha. 

One is small and black missing two legs :c 

One is clear yellow, a bit bigger.

One is striped and dark

Got a baby tan today, speck 

One is arboreal, brown and lanky, went through two molts, so a bit bigger

Then I have a different spider that has a web, but jumps. 

Then I have a momma and bunch of babies huntsman spiders. 

Then I have a large piano looking spider that has two front black legs the rest of the body is a lighter color I saved.

The bigger spiders get crickets. 

I go around the outdoors with an entomology net sweeping the grass - catching larger flies, crickets and more, for my bigger friends. Luckily most are tiny. Like my tan is a tad smaller than a melanogaster fruit fly! She ate it too. 

The fruit flies I got on purpose because most of my spiders are on the smaller side.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

Also! Yeah I'll mist my media with Vinegar!


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## IShouldGetSomeSleep (Sep 23, 2021)

Would love to see some pictures when you get the chance, I used to have quite the collection of jumping spiders my favorite is P. audax they have crazy variable color morphs. Here in Maryland I can find ones with white, yellow and orange spots.

Here's a cool website I visit almost weekly. The P. audax gallery! > Maryland Biodiversity Project - Bold Jumper (Phidippus audax)


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Westielover83 said:


> I financially cannot afford to spend 21$ on flies every single month to make cultures _every week_. When that is also my food money. You know? I only get like 50$ a month. I gotta make this last, ideally a year. . . If not a year at least a handful of months....


I think, even with using full Repashy cultures, you are looking at around maybe $4/month if you make a weekly culture. That is about as affordable as you can get in regards to keeping and feeding a pet.

You can likely make one every 2 weeks and be fine.


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

IShouldGetSomeSleep said:


> Would love to see some pictures when you get the chance, I used to have quite the collection of jumping spiders my favorite is P. audax they have crazy variable color morphs. Here in Maryland I can find ones with white, yellow and orange spots.
> 
> Here's a cool website I visit almost weekly. The P. audax gallery! > Maryland Biodiversity Project - Bold Jumper (Phidippus audax)


Guess my friends need tiny selfies! Lol 

[[ I can only imagine trying to get Specks picture. She is the size of a fruit fly! Awh!! 🥺]]

Since I also go home too, I may actually run into some that you have found. (DC area) is really close to (Maryland)


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

Chris S said:


> I think, even with using full Repashy cultures, you are looking at around maybe $4/month if you make a weekly culture. That is about as affordable as you can get in regards to keeping and feeding a pet.
> 
> You can likely make one every 2 weeks and be fine.


VALID! But gonna try my cornmeal technique since I bought 2 bags of the stuff first. ♡


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## Westielover83 (5 mo ago)

Today I am gonna play with some cultures! Woo!! Like you guys all said, I have the money. Lets have fun!!

I will make a few jars. More flies (like you all said) the merrier!

I will do smaller sample sizes because technically there is going to be a few jars as an experiment

I have a entomology rack / desk with all sorts of creatures in my room, ants, grasshopper, pillbugs, etc. I write my notes in a tradtional diary day by day.

I will play with the variables. Same size jar (might be just two cultures but thats fine) and overall same size screen inside, same amount of moisture and vinegar spritzing.

Obviously I gotta eyeball fly amount for seeding, but it will be fun to try this.

I am thinking keep all my samples small. A pure Rapashy batch, pure only cornmeal batch, and then the 1 to 1 ratio. (Okay maybe one jar wont be the same size, but I still wanna see how the flies fare with some of these food variations)

I think a few tablespoons (2tbsp?) For each culture jar should be fine? (That's a half batch of repashy for a comparison).

I was gonna do this now, but I will wait and see what everyone thinks!

And depending on how this ends up I may just stay to half batch cultures. Unless you all *heavily* reccomend full three / four tablespoons of food which should last a month? (Not for this experiment - but for when I do regular culture making) ...


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## Bgriff (5 mo ago)

You can get away with halfing your container size. Say maybe a red solo cup size. And half the recipe.


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## Chris S (Apr 12, 2016)

Bgriff said:


> You can get away with halfing your container size. Say maybe a red solo cup size. And half the recipe.


It doesn't always work exactly like that - I often find they dry up faster and crash sooner, so not always just a "cut everything in half" sort of scenario. Some trial and error may make it work properly though.


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## Bgriff (5 mo ago)

Chris S said:


> It doesn't always work exactly like that - I often find they dry up faster and crash sooner, so not always just a "cut everything in half" sort of scenario. Some trial and error may make it work properly though.


I agree. It does not always work that way. Just trying to answer their question. For me, i have halved it as an experiment and it works just fine. Yes they fry up sooner but they can just make cultures more often if that’s the case for them. In reality, i would just make full sized cultures in their case, but that’s not the question that was asked. Cheers!


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