# little round pests?



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I've noticed some pests attacking 2 Begonia glabra cuttings that are growing well in my tank. They are yellowish color, rounded to the point of looking like water droplets, and a bit clearish. They are on mainly the undersides of the leaves and the stem. They don't seem to be moving much. Are these scale insects?

I've been smooshing or brushing them off, but they come back every few days. Suggestions?


----------



## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Sounds like aphids to me.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Nope...don't think they are aphids. They are round and do not seem to have visible legs. Also, they are smaller than any aphids I've seen.


----------



## MacheteAvenue (Oct 17, 2006)

ya probably scale.. look it up on google images


----------



## philthelizard (Sep 24, 2006)

Could you try and post some pics? Even poor quality would help with an ID. 

phil


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Crappy image, but it's been a long time since I've had scale (Josh K, this plant look familiar? LOL)


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

No camera ATM but I think it is pretty safe to assume these are scale. Now what?


----------



## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

I have removed it before by taking the infected plants and spraying them with a biodegradable soap used for insects. The soap is non toxic and washes off with water after all the bugs are dead. It works by blocking their breathing holes and they suffocate... not like pesticides that use chemicals to kill.


----------



## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

Oh... don't use the soap in the tank... remove the plants from the tank.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

That doesn't sound too bad. Is this a one time fix or will I always be fighting these things? Its weird that as far as I can see none of the other plants have them.


----------



## 41714049 (Feb 23, 2006)

For me it worked and never had the problem again. I did have to remove the plants for 2 weeks though.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Interesting. Question is that if I take the plants out and treat them will they simply be reinfected upon being placed back in the tank? I recall from one of the other threads the crawler stage takes a few days to starve to death if they don't find a host plant...so it may work out.


----------



## philthelizard (Sep 24, 2006)

If you do use the soap method and remove the plant from the tank, which I think is a good idea and probably the best solution for scale, I would make sure you wait long enough to make sure that the infestation is clear and that the scale in the tank have not taken up another host plant before returning the plant to the tank. I would try to ID you scale insect using the internet fist though, like BugGuide.net (this is a link to their scale page: http://bugguide.net/node/view/125), or another similar website to get a better idea about what species you have and then you can find the life cycle of that particular scale insect. If you can't find anything, a period of 2-3 weeks may be alright. But I would recommend research first on the species. There may even be some sort of a quick fix for one species over another. However, I think once you get rid of them on the plant and wait long enough for any offspring to die off, I think that you should not expect another infestations, at least for awhile.

Hope this helps.
phil


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Thanks! I will probably end up doing just that. They do not look like any of the bug guide photos though. They are round(as in, not pressed up against the plant) and not fuzzy at all from what I can see.


----------



## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Sounding more like aphids... 

This houseplant guide has some decent pics of common pests.

Here are some aphid photos from bug guide see if those are closer to what you were looking for.


----------



## philthelizard (Sep 24, 2006)

Another good way to tell if they are aphids is if they are all in a line along where the plants phloem is going to the roots. Aphids will also have some sort of pop like squish to them when you squeeze them and come off the plant easily. Scale are typically harder to remove from the plant because they 'glue' themselves down. If you take a magnifying glass and look at the tail end of aphids, you can see two 'tail pipes' that may or may not have little droplets on them. This is honey dew made by the aphid from the excess plant sugars (this is the reason ants keep aphids around). Scale look more like a little dot of a sheild. The insect underneath just looks like a blob. So take a look and see.

Hope this makes sense.
phil


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

They are not aphids. They do line up along the veins but do not have legs, do not have the little tailpipes for excreting honeydew, and do not give you a satisfying pop when you squish them...they are pretty tough to squish.


It seems squishing is taking a toll on their numbers, so I think I will continue and see if I can eliminate them or at least get them back down to lag phase of population growth...LOL


----------



## philthelizard (Sep 24, 2006)

If they are difficult to squish, as you say, I would agree with you that they are scale. If you are pleased with the squishing method of control, you may have to use some search and destroy methods to really get the population under control. Good luck!

phil


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Here they are. These were all wiped out shortly after the photo was taken...Mwahaha.

Hmm...made the photo too small. You can just make them out on the 3rd leaf from the front on the right side. Round globule looking things. Better photo soon.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Well, the plants have grown, and so has the scale problem unfortunately. I am now looking at the following ideas.

Dry ice: This viv currently has a nice population of springtails, and 2 species of woodlice which I'd like to keep. My idea was to put a bag around the plants , add the dry ice, and the tie it to confine the dry ice to the plants. The problem with this is that their is a chance that some of the scale may be underground and thus it won't completely wipe them out.

Biological controls. I hear their are a few wasps that will take out scale? Also, lacewings are supposed to work, but I have no idea if they are viv safe...I've been bitten by these suckers and they just clamp in and don't let go(I was sitting in math and it was slightly amusing to see how long it would do that). I would hate to imagine what one could do to a frog. On the other hand, they are bite size...maybe the frogs would just eat them?

If I could get ahold of the wasps and keep them alive, they'd provide a bit of a foodsource to the frogs and thus I would be willing to tolerate the scale. The only reason I am now looking to get rid of it is that some of the begonia leaves are coming out deformed(a kind of wavy or puckered look).


----------



## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

I wasn't aware there were wasp predators for scale, do you have an idea of the specie?

I once had a mealy bug infestation and got some mealy bug destroyers (can't remember the GN but a lot like lady bird beetles) and they wipe those out (remarkably/a miracle). They supposedly feed off aphids, scale and other eggs and such and I know have scale as well so I may end up spending another small fortune on the destroyers. But if I find out about what wasps those are I may try those. Lots of scale=lots of wasps=some potential use/varabilty to compinsate the damage.


----------



## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Not sure if this addresses the wasp question but I was curious so I went looking...

Bill

http://www.greenhome.com/products/pest_ ... rol/101016

http://store.arbico-organics.com/1122001.html


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I think the species of wasp that work for greenhouse type scale would be Metaphysus...not sure the ones Bill posted would do the trick.

Ladybugs would be another potential biological control. Simply adding a clump of eggs onto the plant might do the trick.


----------



## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

The problem with biological controls are that most of the time they are very pest specific. If it is a soft brown scale, then the predatory wasp, _Metaphycus helvolus_ should work. If they are a hard, or "armored" scale, then there are more things that should work, such as lady bugs, as previously mentioned. There are two types that may work _Hippodamia convergens_ or the Asian lady Beetle _Harmonia axyridis_. Hope this helps some.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

They are soft scale, do not appear to be armored in any sense. 

I haven't found a source for Metaphysus...and suspect it might be very expensive.

Will ladybugs harm the frogs in any way? I know they are toxic but I think the frogs ought to be smart enough to avoid them(their are no frogs in the tank currently but I plan on getting some real soon).


----------



## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Here are some sources for beneficial insects:

http://www.growquest.com/pro_grow_list_page.htm
http://www.greenmethods.com/incl_pages/ ... phycus.php

That's about all I could fins that specifically had the wasp. I have no idea about lady bugs though, I cant imagine a frog would eat them but I would wait until I heard from someone that had.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

expensive as expected...but it appears the company offers samples of the Metaphysus...which might work to see if they will do the trick.


----------



## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Yep, part of the reason why organic foods are so much more expensive, to offset costs like beneficials.

Glad I could help (hopefully.)


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

Yeah thanks for the link! If not the wasps they have some other ladybugs i may want to try.


----------



## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

I kinda thought there was a catch to having the wasps. I don't think they could deal w/ the high humidity. If you can dry out your tank it might work, but I wouldn't be willing to that.

Dendrobait,
I don't think you'd want to put lady beetles in your tank. They would stain the crap out of it.


----------



## housevibe7 (Sep 24, 2006)

Only thing is Schtupa, we use them in the greenhouse industry all the time if pesticides cant be used. Granted I realize it isnt 98 percent humidity most of the time in there, but they do great. In fact I just stuck some in with some plants I had scale problems with. I cant really ever find the wasps themselves, but you can find the parasitized remains of scale and aphids quite easily.

So, they may have problems with the high humidity, but if he can get a sample pack of them for free, why not try?


----------



## stchupa (Apr 25, 2006)

housevibe7 said:


> So, they may have problems with the high humidity, but if he can get a sample pack of them for free, why not try?


Oh, well hell yeah. I didn't realize they were free.


----------



## Dendrobait (May 29, 2005)

I doubt my tank is 98 percent humidity. I plan on getting a fan to circulate the air also. Some of the substrate higher up on my background is almost totally dry(having trouble finding plants to put in these parts though!).


----------

