# azureus eggs...developing this time!



## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

so my azureus went to it again, after having their first group of eggs (infertile)...it looks like 4 of 5 are healthy, i removed what appeared to be an infertile one, and now they're on about day 6 of development...do i separate them as eggs (if so... at what stage in development, and any good technique to prevent damage?) or somehow wait till they break the egg or what? 

ive read about the waters and food, and morphing from the tail, but i missed this part of it somehow.

thanks....tommy


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

i'm not experienced by any means but hopefully i can help. from what i remember reading you don't seperate any eggs even if they are bad. suppodedly it doesn't affect anything by leaving them alone. and the good ones you don't seperate them. just add some ro water to keep them hydrated and let them hatch. then once they hatch you would seperate them into different containers. hope this helps if not maybe a mod or an experienced person could correct me if i'm wrong.


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Good job!!!!

Azureus and tincs in general, are slow to start breeding. I got my pair in November. They were 12 months old or so. I was told they had laid eggs before but they were infertile. That's really common and expected. I got 3 clutches that were infertile. 5 eggs, then 8, then 5. All infertile. Really annoying but expected. Good eggs STAY good, bad eggs go bad. Nothing you can do to save a bad egg. My eggs looked PERFECT until they just swelled up or never developed.

Here's what I do with my eggs and I got 3 today after a 1 month break they took. Finally!

When I notice them courting all day, I'll check the hut for eggs that night. I'll usually leave them until the morning. By now, I know my pair pretty well and I know my male fertilized them. 

I know a lot of people remove eggs that look like duds, I don't always but you can if you want. Clean razor is fine, just be careful. 

You want to keep the clutch together in it's dish. For an incubator, I simply use a rubbermaid container, moist paper towel, and kept at room temps. If the temps drop to the high 60s they will just take a few days to a week longer for the tads to hatch. When they're getting close to hatch, their curled tails will straighten out. Keep an eye out but no need to watch like a hawk. Towards the end, spray more water so they can wiggle out. Sometimes I fine them in the petri dish hatched and wiggling around in the very shallow water. Also, it's good to not cover the dish. Just put it in the incubator as you found it.

My tadpole tea is made with either peat moss, Pura filter media, or indian leaves boiled. Any rain forest type water is fine. By this I mean a PH more on the acidic side, and a light amber color to the water. I also use this to spray the eggs sometimes but sometimes I just use regular water. You can mist the eggs every now and then. Basically this tea is used because it releases natural and beneficial tannins and humins into the water. If you read amazon fish guides, a lot of fish like discus, angels, pirhanna, etc, also do great in rain forest water like this. 

When they hatch, some people keep them in groups in larger containers with java moss, leaves, and hiding places. Tincs can be aggressive though and can release a growth inhibiting hormone so I just avoid any problems and keep them each in a single quart deli cup. Hard to upkeep if you have a ton of tadpoles but easy to do water changes fast with a turkey baster. Keep tadpole water on hand and possibly an air stone in it to keep it fresh. 

I keep java moss or plants wrapped around inside the cup as well. 

For food, I feed them once a week when I do a water change. Usually fish flakes or HBH tadpole food is fine. Maybe once or twice during this stage, I'll sprinkle a little spiruilina algae as well but I don't believe it's a good staple diet for tinc tadpoles. Sometimes I'll even throw in a couple blood worms.

The water change I do is around half the water and I'll do it when I feed. In Europe I hear many froggers don't do a water change at all! Because I use the small containers, I just go ahead and do it.

You need to understand, in the wild, tadpoles can live in complete swampy SNOT water!!! lol Any water source a frog can find to deposit them is used and they do great....so don't over-think it!

Depending on temps and on the tads, expect them to morph between 2-3 months, sometimes sooner, sometimes longer. Friends have told me that tads have morphed out from more recent clutches faster than from a clutch from the week before it. So it all depends.


My best advice is to do some reading and keep good notes and records on everything you do, just in case you forget the next time.

Richard from Black Jungle told me great advice a while back. He said he can't tell me how to raise my tadpoles because every ones situation is different. The best thing to do is to come up what works for ME. 

You should do the same and I wish you luck! Watching your frogs complete their life cycle is absolutely amazing and SO cool!!

Take care
Dan


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

whitethumb said:


> i'm not experienced by any means but hopefully i can help. from what i remember reading you don't seperate any eggs even if they are bad. suppodedly it doesn't affect anything by leaving them alone. and the good ones you don't seperate them. just add some ro water to keep them hydrated and let them hatch. then once they hatch you would seperate them into different containers. hope this helps if not maybe a mod or an experienced person could correct me if i'm wrong.



Some people separate them, some don't. I used to but no longer do. I found that I NEVER get mold problems with my eggs so I don't even bother and have never had a problem. 

As far as RO water goes, I know it's great to use for various things in the hobby, but I've never used it. It's definitely not needed. Eggs survive if they're good eggs, and strong normal tadpoles survive in any non-toxic water. Better to be safe than sorry and if you're using tap water, test it and use a amquel (water conditioner) or something to remove metals like chlorine. Other than that though it's not that big a deal.

My current bottle of tadpole tea I am using right now is a bucket of tap water, with some water conditioner that contains cycle, and a boiled bio bag of a peat moss infused filter media. I was all out of indian leaves. Next time I'll use peat moss as I have a ton.

I think people over-think a lot of things with the easy tadpoles as they live in total snot water in the wild. 

That's just my opinion though.


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## whitethumb (Feb 5, 2011)

i'm not quite there yet, but i definitely did homework beforehand. thanks for clearing things up


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

Or if you have a big tank with a big pond, you can let them do the work. They'll transfer tads and the tads will come out of the water eventually! You just never know what they're up to that way lol

I forgot to post one thing: After the frogs grow legs, the developing arms will pop in the front. Once this happens, the tadpoles will not longer be fed and will start absorbing their tail. At this time, put them in a container with shallow water and a way for the morphed froglet to get out of the water. You can either tilt the container, or put a big clump of spag moss in the middle...or however you choose.

All of this is in the caresheets on this forum and in other posts....

So decide what works for you and go for it! It's a lot of fun that's for sure!

D


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

wow, i feel honored to have received probably the largest post of all time! thanks for all the info, very clear... ill start taking pics tomorrow (i dont know why i havent yet.) 

one more thing....and you answered part of this already but im just nervous about this...i read you can drown the egg;...so, if the eggs hatch how much water is needed for the tads to survive?;... and whats the trick to getting them out of the dish? and into the deli containers?

thanks again


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## Gumby (May 27, 2010)

Well like stated before, do what works best for you. But here's how I do it. Once I pull the eggs I put them in a gladware container w/lid. I cut out a small section of eggcrate to place under the petri dish. This way I can add a few cm's of distilled water under the dish. I use a turkey baster to add just enough "tadpole tea" to the petri dish to submerge the bottom half of the egg while the top 50% is above the water. In about 2 weeks time they hatch out of the egg. I add more tadpole tea to the petri dish later in the second week to submerge them 75%. Once they hatch I remove them with the Turkey Baster and place them each in their own 16oz tadpole cup. In the cup is a piece of indian almond leaf, some java moss, and tadpole tea. I use black water extract to make my tea. I use 5ml of extract per gallon. You can find the extract on joshsfrogs.com. The Turkey baster is key though when dealing with tads.

-Chris


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## DJboston (Oct 25, 2008)

I agree! Turkey basters are very much needed. Makes it so easy to do water changes or add water.

By the way, I never thought to use the egg crate in the egg container. I just tried it with some pieces I had and it's a great way to keep the humidity high. I usually use moist paper towel but that can dry out if you forget to mist for a few days. The water in the container is a lot better and similar to the incubators I used to make for snake and gecko eggs.


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

ahhhh turkey basters! thats how you get em out... alright well im at about day 10 or so...well see what happens.....

also, one of the eggs was against the side of the dish and its tail was restricted to develop, and seems as if though its a gonner. next time should i try to slide the egg from the side, or was this just a coincidence?

also #2... the little guys havent wiggled for two days...no cloudiness within the egg, everything seems the same....but i noticed they have stopped wiggling...not that i look at them for more than five minutes a day, but the wiggled a couple of days ago....random, or common? 


thanks tommy


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## jdooley195 (Oct 19, 2009)

one still wiggling! i saw one twitching a bit this morning....he and one other have a vein type thing coming out from under them...normal?


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## Gumby (May 27, 2010)

All of what you are describing seems to be normal development. They do stop moving for a few days, it is nothing to worry about. Also the vein thing you are talking about is normal and it will go away after it hatches. Congrats 

-chris


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