# Cayo de Aqua as a first Pumilio??



## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

Ok so, I am by no means planning on jumping to get any Pumilio anytime really soon, but I do eventually really want a pair of Cayo de Aqua. They're my favorite! I'm currently keeping Southern Variabilis, Varaderos, Benedictas, & Amazonicus. I just would like to know a little bit more about the Cayo de Aqua. I frequently see people posting about choices for a first Pumilio, makes me nervous to take the plunge. So for someone like myself who does have experience with thumbs, and I feel confident in my frog keeping skills, would Cayo de Aqua be a bad first choice? And if so can you please elaborate why?


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

No Whitney it would be a great choice, most Pums when acclimated are pretty hardy. Feeding babies becomes the challenge as you need lots of springtails and small food. Take the plunge they are very rewarding and call is quite different than the thumbs you are keeping now. An acclimated pair of Pumilio will be as easy to take of as your thumbs, if you can get a pair..it gets a little trickier in groups or same sex grow outs.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

markpulawski said:


> No Whitney it would be a great choice, most Pums when acclimated are pretty hardy. Feeding babies becomes the challenge as you need lots of springtails and small food. Take the plunge they are very rewarding and call is quite different than the thumbs you are keeping now. An acclimated pair of Pumilio will be as easy to take of as your thumbs, if you can get a pair..it gets a little trickier in groups or same sex grow outs.


Thank you! That makes me feel better!  Maybe I can find some later this year after the summer! Do you know anyone working with them? I'll hunt around but just wondering if you may know.


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## Tricolor (Jun 12, 2009)

I have a pair and 2 males and might be getting a female or two soon. easy to keep but hard to breed at least for me. One of my favorites.


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Pumilio aren't as difficult as people say they are, certainly no more than the Ranitomeya you're working with. Take the plunge and get some! As Mark said, they only become difficult when kept in groups or breeding.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

I have a 60g cube I may use for them. It'll be a fun project setting that tank up! Gonna take a while though. I have a mist king I can use on it too!


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Really with Pum's you have three things to worry about.

Age of froglets that are being sold. I have seen an increase in young pum froglets being sold on here. If they are not at least 6months of age then you have a large increase 75% or higher in mortality from being shipped.

Second a well started viv with clay substrate and at least two forms of springtails and 2 forms of isos (I prefer three of each). This means that once you actually get the frogs, the springs are going to be food for the first week or so due to stress.

Third, Patience. Most pum's are incredibly shy until they start breeding, then you will see the male EVERYDAY. My pair of black jeans just started laying and he is out everyday calling to her.

Also as thedude said the frogs your working with use to be considered even harder to work with then some pumilo. So take the plunge and enjoy them because they are the most fascinating frogs I have owned even if they are shy.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

I've heard about this clay substrate they need. Why is that & what is that?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Doug (pumilio) sells it. I can give more information.


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## scoy (Jan 22, 2013)

It contains calcium, I just got a batch from Doug and deffiney recommend it for pumilios. If you can afford it all frogs will benefit from it.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

you do not NEED clay. Ive been keeping pumilio for years without it and they all do fine.

james


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Clay substrate is in no way ideal! It is good to have to give the froglets a calcium boost. I know plenty that haven't used clay and had great success.

Springs as long as you have booming population in the viv and add when the population decreases add more.

I have heard pumilio are very hardy when established.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

VenomR00 said:


> at least two forms of springtails and 2 forms of isos (I prefer three of each).


Why do I NEED 2-3 forms of isos & 2 forms of springs? If the population is high enough wouldnt 1 form of each be sufficient? Or is there something about the other forms as far as nutrition goes?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Each person does things differently. I do it the way I said because it has better results. I don't like seeing dead frogs.

I said two or more because each springtail will go to different area's. Froglets go to different area's so might as well supply as many food sources for each area giving more resources.


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## oldlady25715 (Nov 17, 2007)

There seem to be a lot of male cayos around but not many females. Finding a pair or trio of juvies would be easier than a sexed pair. 

Plus there are the "yellow bellies" that some people call cayos because they look like cayos, but came from an import without locality info. 

I think the ones with blue coloration on the legs are stunning, the plain green ones are so/so--My 2 cents


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

VenomR00 said:


> Each person does things differently. I do it the way I said because it has better results. I don't like seeing dead frogs.
> 
> I said two or more because each springtail will go to different area's. Froglets go to different area's so might as well supply as many food sources for each area giving more resources.


Ok..... not to sound rude or anything but to say that what you do is best & if I dont do it that way I will see dead frogs is kind of a bold statement... Just wanted a reason as to why more morphs are better than one. Different types of springtails & isos going to different areas of the tank makes perfect sense so I will get a wide variety.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I really think you don't.

Just stock with springs and isos - use the substrate of your choice (I've had great successes and not so great successes with all types of substrates). I choose my substrate (clay these days) for 2 reasons - slower plant growth and better for the fauna (therefore for the frogs). Other people do things differently - most all are acceptable. But the key thing is - your results may vary. 

Lastly - the import known as "Yellow Bellies" looks a lot different (to me) than the more recent Cayo de Aqua imports. I would not mix them (but there is a thread or two on this as well).

Good luck.

s



Whitneyd88 said:


> Why do I NEED 2-3 forms of isos & 2 forms of springs? If the population is high enough wouldnt 1 form of each be sufficient? Or is there something about the other forms as far as nutrition goes?


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

Your not rude, and yes it was bold because I have had frogs on multiple substrates. Even my azureus bred better on clay then on ABG mix. So it is a statement I made in confidence. The fauna that the frogs eat do far better in clay then in ABG. I have contemplated trying my cultures in clay over the standard mixes but haven't figured a way to get them to transfer over easily.

Iso's and Springs will breed in wood, substrates, or whatever else they can hid in however to get them to have a lasting effect you need to give them as many options to be in. Clay is open, porous, and aerates better.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

Thank you so much everyone for the advice! I am so very excited to build this tank! I have a beautiful cypress stump that should be arriving in the mail today! And I will start a build thread when I have just a little more progress. It's cool that I start a slow build thread right?  cause I'm just so excited I may start it tonight when I get the stump!

I need to order some cultures then of isos, and one other springtail. I currently have the tropical white springtails. I've had that culture for a year and a half now and its still going strong! I just sprinkle yeast in there occastionally. They hold up really well in my tanks. But I dont know how to care for the isos, just havent looked it up yet is all. 

That is SO good to know about the cayos. I havent really started the hunt yet. I'm also partial to blue jeans (who isnt), and I've got a while before this tank will be ready. I want it to be seeded properly and all the broms settled. 

I'm such a noob. I've been in this hobby for a year and a half and successfully breed cobalts, & have my first benny tads developing well, but I still have so much to learn. i.e. other microfauna I should have learned about by now  But at least I'm taking it slow and doing it right!


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## VenomR00 (Apr 23, 2010)

If you choose to go the route of Blue Jeans just be VERY careful to watch the lineage. There are tons.


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## Whitneyd88 (Nov 12, 2011)

VenomR00 said:


> If you choose to go the route of Blue Jeans just be VERY careful to watch the lineage. There are tons.


Yeah that's one thing I have noticed thats the first thing people ask when they're up for sale. what lineage should be avoided? And what are the best to look for??


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