# Were flightless fruit flies always flightless?



## chinoanoah (Mar 9, 2009)

Same as Subject...!


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

no they were genetically engeneered to be that way


----------



## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I guess people don't breed these for high school biology class anymore. We bred them for all kinds of neat traits. eye color, curly wings, etc


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Well they aren't technically genetically engineered to be flightless. The various flightless genes are due to naturally occuring mutations in the population that were originally selected for genetic studies. 

Ed


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

yeah i know, but when they are selective bred in labs for that trait, what else woudl you call it. For some reason fruit flies have been more of a College thing, their quite a few schools here in NYC workign with them and studying their sleep pattern, not sure why


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Selective breeding. 
Its the same thing that was done in domesticating cattle.... sheep... goldfish..... apples...cherries... fine spot azureus....

Ed


----------



## lizardstowe (Sep 6, 2005)

ED, 
Don't forget dogs and, although naturally selected, Darwin's finches!


----------



## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

lol... ok i get it...


----------



## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that they mutagenized the flies and then isolated flightless offspring.


----------



## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

Ed said:


> Well they aren't technically genetically engineered to be flightless. The various flightless genes are due to naturally occuring mutations in the population that were originally selected for genetic studies.
> 
> Ed


I thought FFs were typically irradiated to generate mutations, which are then selected out (typically on the basis of being scientifically interesting).


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

genetic research in fruit flies has been going on for something like 90 years.... it is true in recent decades irradiation is used to try and induce rarer mutations but the various flightless mutations occur fairly frequently spontaneously. 

for example see One hundred years of high-throughput Drosophila re...[Chromosome Res. 2006] - PubMed Result 

Ed


----------



## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

This is a pretty interesting topic for being such a simple question. I had always heard that T.H. Morgan used X-rays to make his mutations, but after reading Ed's response I decided to check further. I found a paper from 1911 where he describes using radium to mutagenize his flies and isolating nine lines. I think these are the first wing mutations described. These are not, however, necessarily the same mutations that we use. I'm not sure anyone knows which strains people are using to feed their frogs (it wouldn't be that hard to figure out, however).

Anyway, if you are interested and have access, here's a link to the 1911 paper. If anyone needs a copy, shoot me a PM.
THE ORIGIN OF NINE WING MUTATIONS IN DROSOPHILA -- MORGAN 33 (848): 496 -- Science


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Thanks Mark,

I couldn't find the references to the older one with radiation so I appreciate the link. 

I have seen vestigial mutants in wild populations of fruit flies (like when I was eleven my mom was making and freezing banana bread and missed some in the box on the back step. When I went to move the box I almost choked on the ffs that came up but being curious I investigated further and found vestigals running around on the lip of the box. This led to my first ff cultures (now over 30 years ago) in a 2 liter soda bottle on a mixture of crushed grapes, some table sugar and some filter floss to let the flies get out of the gunk. I sealed the top with more filter floss. I did get both fliers and non-fliers out of the culture although I did try to seperate out the wingless flies. Unfortunately my mom following the strong vinegary smell found the containers and discarded them..) 

Ed


----------



## markbudde (Jan 4, 2008)

Nice story Ed! To bad your mom threw them out, otherwise you could have isolated a new strain for feeding


----------



## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

oddly enough I was trying to culture them so I could feed some night lizard neonates I had aquired. I wish I knew then what I know now... I would have been happy to be able to culture them. 
My mom had some valid concerns since only a couple of months prior my brother and cousin tried to make plum wine and blew up some gallon jugs in a closet.

Ed


----------



## tonying (Mar 6, 2008)

markbudde said:


> This is a pretty interesting topic for being such a simple question. I had always heard that T.H. Morgan used X-rays to make his mutations, but after reading Ed's response I decided to check further. I found a paper from 1911 where he describes using radium to mutagenize his flies and isolating nine lines. I think these are the first wing mutations described. These are not, however, necessarily the same mutations that we use. I'm not sure anyone knows which strains people are using to feed their frogs (it wouldn't be that hard to figure out, however).
> 
> Anyway, if you are interested and have access, here's a link to the 1911 paper. If anyone needs a copy, shoot me a PM.
> THE ORIGIN OF NINE WING MUTATIONS IN DROSOPHILA -- MORGAN 33 (848): 496 -- Science


Fascinating, thanks for the tip! (I have access through my uni) I was amazed to see how it was written, if I didn't know better I would have thought it was much more recent.


----------



## bobberly1 (Jul 16, 2008)

Yeah, I remember seeing a video in school about how at the dawn of nuclear power they found it had a huge effect on FF genetics, but as many people said there were probably bred traits before that.


----------

