# ADF Grey Spot and swollen leg / foot.... Help!



## sultanhq (Oct 11, 2012)

Hi, 

My Fiancée's ADF has all-of-a sudden got this swollen rear leg/foot with grey spots,

She's still hopping around on it at the moment.

Please take a look at the attached photo.

Many Many Thanks
Rob


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

Please someone help my fiancé and me solve this! We have already lost one froggie to red leg :'(


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Can you get some more pics? Swelling is not good. First thing I'd do, while you're getting pics, is make sure nothing is wrapped around the leg. I've seen leg swelling when a small root or human hair gets tangled around it.

Is there a vet in your area that can see your frog?

More pics. Lots of angles. And pics of the tank.

Oooh I missed the part about gray spots. Hmmm.


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## billschwinn (Dec 17, 2008)

frogface said:


> Can you get some more pics? Swelling is not good. First thing I'd do, while you're getting pics, is make sure nothing is wrapped around the leg. I've seen leg swelling when a small root or human hair gets tangled around it.
> 
> Is there a vet in your area that can see your frog?
> 
> ...


After you provide what Kris asked for above it should help with figuring out the potential problem.


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## Tinctoc (Sep 15, 2012)

looks like an infection to me. The grey spots tell me that it is most likely fungal.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

I wouldn't be confident making a diagnosis of pathogen (even to general cause) since there are a number of potential reasons for the discolorations.. for an example (doesn't mean that this is the case), an abscess in the area could be the reason we see the swelling and the swelling could have either caused tissues to die in that location (which would disrupt the blue since it would disrupt the iridopores), or that the streching of the skin layers is preventing easy light penetration resulting again in a lack of blue pigment.... 

It really needs to be seen by someone who can either aspirate the tissues or take a biopsy and put it on a treatment regimen. Often infections result in multiple pathogens from secondary or tertiary infections. 

some comments 

Ed

As a total side note.... ADF typically means African Dwarf Frog referring to Hymenochirus or Xenopus.


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

Thank you for your replies, I was almost about to worry nobody would read either thread :S

I will hopefully be able to seek some medical attention in the morning.

I must at this point apologise for the poor quality of several of the photos, I have been using my phone which has a good camera, and mainly because it is more manoeuvrable inside the tank than anything else, but getting angles and focus right is still tricky.

Here are some (attached).

I had her out today to check her leg in a small plastic container, she is still very mobile and able to struggle away when she wants to, still hopping, still lively and eating happily! Couldn't get any decent photos while she was in the container unfortunately because I hadn't realised it was frosted 

We have a vet who has seen my fiancé's veiled chameleon, but she is not around until Mon so will call then at 11am and ask for the next available appointment.

Please let me know anything else I can provide. I will attempt some better photos of the tank tomorrow. It is an Exo Terra one, I know that much. Set up with clay beads in the bottom, a layer of coconut bark soil I believe and sphagnum moss on top. We have a bromeliad plastic plant, a fern type plant and a shallow water bowl.



Ed said:


> As a total side note.... ADF typically means African Dwarf Frog referring to Hymenochirus or Xenopus.


In response to that, I thought my fiancé had made a mistake :S


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The pictures can't be made bigger and my eyes aren't good enough.... 


Ed


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

Photos are too small, these may be better:


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

Ed said:


> The pictures can't be made bigger and my eyes aren't good enough....
> 
> 
> Ed


Sorry, as you posted that, I realised and was trying to rectify!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm glad to hear she will see a vet. In the meantime, can you show us a picture of the tank? We need to see how she is housed to make sure it's the right environment for her.


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

Hello again all,

As requested I have taken some photos of the tank; I hope they will be sufficient. I can't post them right now as I am on a bus using my phone but will do as soon as I get home. I am however going to dismantle it today, thoroughly clean everything and replace the substrate so all suggestions would be much appreciated.

She had her first successful visit to the vet yesterday, who had only ever seen tree frogs before, but sees a lot of reptiles. She weighed Steel, who came in at only 2grams! She was very well behaved all in all, since she had her travel carry box which was equipped with soil and moss, with a little place to hide, and placed on a heat mat to get it up to temperature before transporting the box to the vet by car about half an hour away.
The vet prescribed an antibiotic for twice a day for 2 days applied to the affected area, and if no improvement / worsening occurs we have prebooked an appointment for Weds, when she suggested sedation in order to investigate further.

Any thoughts on the above proposed course of action?

Many thanks,
Tash


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Moistened brown paper towels are a much better travel substrate... You can also moisten them and then crumple them to provide hide areas. If you keep the frog in the dark during travel, it will reduce further stress (appropriate sized ice chest which can hold the carrying container are good choices). The temperature can also be held steady through the use of phase change panels or even one or two 1 or 2 liter bottles filled with water of the right temperature (thermal mass reduces temperature changes)... 

Other than that it sould like the right track. 

Ed


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

Sorry for the long delay, please see photos below


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Hehe I love the little face peeking over the water dish 

I don't see anything obviously wrong with the tank. Perhaps some leaves down on the substrate. Oh, and some living plants. Otherwise, I can't see anything in there that would lead me to think it is causing her leg problem. It looks like the water is well below the dirt line. Is the substrate wet?


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

Yes, the substrate is wetter than usual, which is my main concern. I am replacing it all tomorrow - intended to today, however thought stressing her out unnecessarily was not fair as I had to administer antibiotics to the affected area twice today as it was. 

She will be at the vets most of the day tomorrow so will have plenty of time then, will be all fresh for when she returns 

As a thought, are dracaena plants suitable for her? Thought it may help to keep natural moisture and humidity. My tree frog had a live plant once and loved it (not the same one, of course!).

Am glad to know you don't see any massive issues that really stand out!


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

What were you thinking of replacing the substrate with? Lots of folks purchase bags of substrate from our vendors. I've never used it but it all looks pretty good to me. I make my own. Probably not as good as what the vendors sell.

Orchid bark, just the bark, no perlite or fertilizers or whatever
100% natural charcoal, smashed up into small pieces with a hammer
Some sphagnum moss, scrunched up by hand

That is the basic recipe, then I add various other things, depending on what I have on hand:

Leca
Leaves
A little peat moss
A little coco fiber
pebbles
whatever 

The key is that it needs to stay moist (not wet) and drain well at the same time. Having live plants in the tank will help keep the humidity in the tank up, and allow you to cut back on misting.


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## stripey (Sep 11, 2012)

*Sorry for the delay...*

Hello all,

Haven't posted in here for a long time, but thought I would finally update you all.

Despite our best efforts, Steel passed away on the 22nd of Nov.

My fiancé and I did everything we could to try to treat her condition. Our vet was amazing, and was kind enough to do the autopsy free of charge because she herself was at a loss to work out what had killed Steel. In the end, we discovered that her infection had spread to her liver and she had most likely died of septicaemia.

In the early stages we treated Steel's fungal infection, and set up a quarantine tank, then reintroduced substrate and her favourite plants slowly and carefully. We made sure we took her for regular check-ups, and after having more swabs taken, had to treat her internal infection with Baytril as well, because the infection in her leg continued to worsen.

Up until her last days she was still really lively; her appetite was still healthy, but we could tell as time went on her mobility just wasn't improving, and her enthusiasm and sense of adventure was taken over by the fact that moving at all was obviously causing her pain. We tried administering painkillers too, but I think in the end she was so crippled by her condition that she herself had given up - she also somehow managed to break one of her front toes not long before she died and we still have no idea how.

I just wanted everyone to know how grateful I was for all of your advice - I really wouldn't have known what to do otherwise!

As much as I really want to get another frog someday, I don't think I could face it for a while because I'm still so devastated by the loss of both my little girls. So I think I'll get back onto the forum when I feel ready to try again with a new one!

Thanks for all the advice and information, and I wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year (or anything else you might be celebrating over the festive period).

All the best,
Natasha


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Oh no. I'm so sorry. You did everything you could. It really is heartbreaking when a frog dies. I hope you'll come back.


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