# Frog-Friendly Ferts



## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Anybody know of any fertilizers that are 100% safe to use with dart frogs? I won't be adding darts for a few more months, but wanted the plants to get a little boost. Anything commonly available? 

Luke


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

If you want to use a little fertilizer to get a viv growing, the general recommendation is to not use any, and if you do, stick with organics and then only use them at about 1/4 strength.

I've used rock phosphate, the organic, natural form, usually has a value of 0-4-0 or even milder, this stuff also has a lot of calcium in it, and is very slow release. Organic gardeners love this stuff.

I've also used fish emulsion, and liquid kelp.

You might also consider a little compost in you're mix (if you have access to a "clean" heap)...this might also carry a good load of micro-organisms (for better or worse)
I think if you keep it at a minimum, and allow you're tank to grow in for a couple of months, you can use any of these with no problems.

Most people agree that frog poop is the only appropriate fertilizer, and anything else is just added pollutant.

Have fun!


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2005)

*fertiliser*

its worth noting that anything rich in calcium will kill moss. not. good. :roll:


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

As noted above, I have used fish emulsion with limited response (certainly not as effective as your nonorganic fertilizer in my experience) as well as a micronutrient supplement knwn as Plant Success by Red Sea--intended for use in aquaria.

If anyone else has success with others, let me know.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Homer said:


> As noted above, I have used fish emulsion with limited response (certainly not as effective as your nonorganic fertilizer in my experience) as well as a micronutrient supplement knwn as Plant Success by Red Sea--intended for use in aquaria.
> 
> If anyone else has success with others, let me know.


As usual, I agree with Homer. Well I'm a non-traditionalist. Like others I prefer to let the frogs do the fertilizing but occassionally I get an epiphyte in need of a little help. If I want a quick fix, I mix any plant fertilizer that is handy and mix it to 1/4 strength or less and provide a little squirt. For a longer term ammendment, I use any organic compound that is handy that contains a fair amount of nitrogen. A pellet of moose poop, yes, I said moose poop, poked into the substrate near the base of the plant works well. A sprinkle of fish food also works well. There is no real mystery to fertilizing plants. The macro nutrients are nitrogen, phosphorous, and potasium and plants use a number of micronutrients, particularly minerals. If you want a quick pick-me-up for the plant, use an inorganic source which will have the nutrients in a form ready for the plant to absorb (usually ammonia or urea for nitrogen). If you want to ammend the soil for long term nutrient supply, use an organic source that will break down and become available to the plant slowly.


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## pa.walt (Feb 16, 2004)

*how about rabbit poop...*

brent i heard that rabbit poop is a good fertilizer. better than some of the other things people use. 
i have never tried it though.


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

I was thinking of putting some organic ferts in there. Maybe superthrive or dynagrow? Not really sure...definitely organic though.

Luke


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: fertiliser*



Louis said:


> its worth noting that anything rich in calcium will kill moss. not. good. :roll:


That is partially true.
The rock phospate didn't bother my java moss a bit...but then java moss will also hold up to bleach :lol: 
Pillow moss is probably a little more sensitive to it though.
There was some discussion a while back on the calcium content of soil artropods...and whether or not they picked up calcium from the substrate, etc., so I kind of like to think it is beneficial to supporting the microfauna (hopefully boosting their nutritional content), and I know plants use it in limited amounts.
I'm also not sure how "available" the calcium, or other components of the rock phospate are...I know it can't be as "free" as calcium insect dust, or lime...So it may not be as detrimental to the moss as you would think, especially since you apply it in the soil, not sprinkled over the moss.

That being said, you probably don't need it anyway...I just like to experiment.
:wink:


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Darks!de said:


> I was thinking of putting some organic ferts in there. Maybe superthrive or dynagrow? Not really sure...definitely organic though.
> 
> Luke


Superthrive is only a micronutrient solution, not what is typically referred to as fertilizer (N-P-K). I think Dynagrow is an inorganic fertilizer/micronutrient combo, but am unsure. I don't know how safe it is for long term use in a terrarium (for both frogs and plants, but mostly frogs). 

Does anyone have thoughts on this, particularly with salt buildups from inorganic fertilizers? I have always tried to err on the cautious side, but wonder whether a sparing injection below the soil may be safe for frogs if a routine flushing of the soil mix is done with RO water.

My guess is that capillary action will bring some of the inorganics to the surface and still cause the frogs to be exposed to some level of the fertilizer. This is why I haven't been too adventuresome with inorganics.

I use inorganics all the time for my gardening and my houseplants, and will restate what Brent said earlier--they are much more effective than the organic fert's in my experience. I would just rather lose a plant than a frog--I can usually propagate another plant or pull it if it looks like it's doing poorly.

Thanks for any insight.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

*Re: how about rabbit poop...*



pa.walt said:


> brent i heard that rabbit poop is a good fertilizer. better than some of the other things people use.
> i have never tried it though.


Any poop will tend to be high in nitrogen but, of course, poop can also bring in parasites so anyone considering using it as a fertilizer should be comfortable with the risks. Rabbit poop, deer poop, moose poop, etc. are nice fertilizers because the are already in a nice pelletized form and don't smell. Ruminants and especially cecal fermenters (rabbits) are also nice because the feces tend to contain a high amount of undigested vegetable matter which composts nicely.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

I actually think it is a bad idea to add general fertilizers to a viv. I posted a couple of very long messages on this same subject on DB a few months ago if you are interested in the reasons why. I won't go into all the reasons but there are a lot of them. A vivarium should provide all the nutrients the plants need plus some without adding fertilizer. Remember that nitrogen fertilizer, no matter what form it is in, is the equivalent of adding frog poison to a vivarium so less is more in my opinion. There is the occassional plant that gets a bit anemic and needs a boost but general fertilizer IMO is a very bad idea.

As far as organic or inorganic, look on the label. Inorganic forms of nitrogen are typically ammonia (NH4), ammonium (NH3), nitrate (NO3), or urea (which rapidly breaks down into the other forms). These are the forms of nitrogen that plants consume directly. Organic forms like fish emulsion or blood meal supply the nitrogen in amino acids (protein) which must first be consumed by bacteria or fungi and then released as one of the inorganic forms when the bacteria or fungi die. That's why organic is "slow release" and less effective because it takes extra steps to actually convert it into plant food.

Homer brings up a good point about the build up of salts. I do know that houseplants chronically fed will build up salts in the soils. I don't know if this is due to the binders in the fertilizer or a buildup of fertilizer salts themselves. One thing to consider is that nutrients like phosphorous do not move around much so once they get into the system, they tend to stay there. Whether this causes a problem, I don't know. But in nature nutrients tend to leach out of the land over time as new nutrients come in. Vivaria that have drain systems and have water moving through them are probably pretty safe from salt accumulations but closed systems may not be.

Just remember that every time you add a fruit fly to a vivarium, you are fertilizing your plants.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

Thanks, Brent. For the most part, your comments reinforce my thoughts. However, I'm not sure I am reading your "I actually think it is a bad idea to add general fertilizers to a viv" correctly. Do you mean typical inorganics, or any fertilizer?

I am not sure I would agree with that, as my concern with fertilizers is the addition of things that would not be encountered in nature (some of the salts that are used along with inorganics to allow quick uptake). The breakdown of organics like fish emulsion or kelp would mimic that of other decaying organics in nature. Further, the mere addition of flies probably does not include adequate micronutrients for plants, especially in a false bottom system (which I tend to favor).

But, I tend to enjoy the more overgrown tanks that do not mimic nature. I also grow quite a few epiphytes that ironically tend to be the ones that are the reason I usually need to add the emulsion. If your comment on general fertilizers refers to the common inorganics, I think we are generally in agreement. Thanks for the input.


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

What is fish emulsion? Just adding WC water to the viv? I have a few tanks and could do this. Again, frogs will not be added for a few months and there is a 5 nozzle misting system, false bottom, and sump, so it would be washed out. I was reading an article on viv substrate which called for the addition of 1tsp of bloodmeal, cottonmeal, and bone meal per gallon. This is organic, and as you guys said, would be time release.

Luke


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm not sure exactly what fish emulsion is, but if you take a whiff of it you'll get a couple of ideas :lol: 
A garden supply store/site that carries organics will usually have some.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Homer said:


> Thanks, Brent. For the most part, your comments reinforce my thoughts. However, I'm not sure I am reading your "I actually think it is a bad idea to add general fertilizers to a viv" correctly. Do you mean typical inorganics, or any fertilizer?


I mean I think it's a bad idea to add fertilizer just because the garden and terrarium books say that plants need fertilizer. In other words, I would NEVER just add fertilizer to a vivarium to boost general plant growth. If there are specific plants that seem to be lacking, or you need to give some a boost to stimulate flower, that is a different story. Spot fertilizing those plants seems most prudent.



> I am not sure I would agree with that, as my concern with fertilizers is the addition of things that would not be encountered in nature (some of the salts that are used along with inorganics to allow quick uptake).


Well I'm sure it depends on the formulation of the fertilizer but the only thing needed for quick uptake of nitrogen (the most commonly limiting nutrient) is for it to be provided in the form of ammonia, nitrate, or urea. Those are all naturall occuring molecules and, in fact, the organic compounds must get broken down into ammonia(m) or nitrate before the nitrogen can be readily taken up by the plant. So an ammonia or urea-based fertilizer could really be considered natural and it is what the organic stuff is going to turn into eventually anyway. But any good gardener also knows that these forms of nitrogen fertilizer are more likely to burn plants because they are salts and readily absorbed by the plants so there is greater chance for overdose



> The breakdown of organics like fish emulsion or kelp would mimic that of other decaying organics in nature.


True, it does mimic natural decay and there is fairly little danger to using it. But it's important to remember that doing so adds nitrogen to the system which will tend to build up microbial populatons to high levels (if there are nutrients present, something will come in to eat them). When the nutrients get depleted, the microbes can crash releasing the nitrogen compounds locked up in their cells which could mean a flush of ammonia or nitrate in the vivarium. It's unlikely to be a big enough flush to be a problem but possible. Rather than use liquid organic emulsions like fish or kelp, I prefer to add dead leaves (remember that leaves contain both macro and micro nutrients too) and small amounts of fruits and veggies. This actually adds a step to the system which makes the nutrients even longer term release. The fruits and veggies provide food for invertebrates like isopods, springtails, nematodes, etc. which not only provide food for frogs, but also poop out the fruits and veggies to let the microbes have a turn at them. In addition, fruits and veggies may provide carotenes and other compounds that enter the food web inside the vivarium and supply the frogs with supplemental vitamins and minerals and possibly pigments for natural coloration. The important thing is that plant fertilizers don't have to come in a jar or bottle labeled for plants.



> Further, the mere addition of flies probably does not include adequate micronutrients for plants, especially in a false bottom system (which I tend to favor).


This is where substrate choice can be important. I tend to favor substrates that contain a little bit of natural soil, compost, or clay which usually will provide all of the micronutrients and cation exchange capacity needed. Supplemental micronutrients come in through added leaf litter, vitamin and mineral powder, feeder insects, etc. The important micronutrients are things like Ca, Mg, Cu, Fe, Se, etc. which are also important nutrients for frogs which we provide either in the insects we feed or supplement dust. Also, these nutrients tend to be tightly conserved meaning that once they enter the system, they tend not to leave unless you physically remove plant materials etc. It's also important for people unfamiliar with plant fertilizers to know that many do not provide micronutrients at all AND that there is often a very fine line between those elements being a nutrient or a toxin. They are calle "micro" nutrients for a reason.



> But, I tend to enjoy the more overgrown tanks that do not mimic nature. I also grow quite a few epiphytes that ironically tend to be the ones that are the reason I usually need to add the emulsion. If your comment on general fertilizers refers to the common inorganics, I think we are generally in agreement. Thanks for the input.


Controlling rate of growth is another reason I don't like to use fertilizers. Vivaria seem to end up overgrown with, or without fertilizer so I like to keep the plants growing as slow as possible. However, your comment about epiphytes really gets at the challenge. You can add all these nutrients to the system through leaf litter, fruit, letting the frogs poop, etc. but it is often difficult to control where those nutrients go. Nitrogen tends to be very water soluble and mobile so it will tend to follow the flow of water, meaning it goes down. Epiphytes are up which means that some epiphytes may find themselves with less nutrients than they would like so they may need a little boost. This is where my moose poop comes in handy but a little squirt of kelp or fish emulsion, or a sprinkle of blood meal would also do the trick.

One thing I happened to think about while typing is that some algae are nitrogen fixing so they can pull nitrogen gas out of the atmosphere and convert it to nitrate (or is it ammonia?). I wonder if it would be possible to seed nitrogen fixing algae in a vivarium so it grows alongside epiphytic orchids etc.

And for those who were wondering about fish emulsion, it is basically pureed fish - or more correctly the fish ooze that is left over after all the more marketable parts are taken. It is a brown, smelly liquid. A chunk of papaya smells much nicer.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

double post


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Brent, You mentioned cation exchange.
When I first read about the benefits of the rock phosphate, (a good ten years ago) one of the things it was really supposed to do well is boost the cation exchange.
I was going to bring that up in an earlier post, but couldn't really remember what exactly (cation exchange) is, why it is beneficial etc., so I didn't bring it up. The article I read didn't really explain it well.
Could you enlighten us?


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

bbrock said:


> The important thing is that plant fertilizers don't have to come in a jar or bottle labeled for plants.


I really found this quote enlightening. I think there are a lot of people overlooking the many ferts already in there vivs. Reading your post Brent, I realized that i already have several "micro" ferts in my viv which help with cation exchange and add the needed food for plants.

Coming from FW aquariums, i'm used to dosing NPK and micros every few days. I guess i was just expecting a similar upkeep with some of the plants in the viv environment. Thanks for the input everyone.

Luke


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Dancing frogs said:


> Brent, You mentioned cation exchange.
> When I first read about the benefits of the rock phosphate, (a good ten years ago) one of the things it was really supposed to do well is boost the cation exchange.
> I was going to bring that up in an earlier post, but couldn't really remember what exactly (cation exchange) is, why it is beneficial etc., so I didn't bring it up. The article I read didn't really explain it well.
> Could you enlighten us?


Cations are postively charged molecules and many of the nutrients that plants need fall into this category: NH4+, Fe+, Cu+, Mg++, Na+ and more. Substrates with high cation exchange capacity (CEC) have a weakly negative charge so they can bind these positively charged nutrients but also give them up fairly easily. Clays tend to have high CEC. Without CEC in the substrate, positively charged nutrients can be depleted by plants or leach out very quickly which is why hydroponics type media require constant supplies of nutrients. Substrates with high CEC act as storage sponges that soak up all those nutrients and store them but they don't hold the nutrients so tightly that plants can't get them back out. This doesn't mean that people using straight LECA are starving their plants though. A layer of LECA with a leaf litter mulch over the top provided a hydroponic media that gets a steady drip of nutrients as the plant material on the surface breaks down. But adding a material with high CEC to the substrate is my preferred method because it more closely mimics the complexities of nature plus a high CEC substrate can quickly absorb pulses of nutrients like if a frog dies in the back corner of a viv unnoticed.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

bbrock said:


> I mean I think it's a bad idea to add fertilizer just because the garden and terrarium books say that plants need fertilizer. In other words, I would NEVER just add fertilizer to a vivarium to boost general plant growth. If there are specific plants that seem to be lacking, or you need to give some a boost to stimulate flower, that is a different story. Spot fertilizing those plants seems most prudent.


Thanks for clarifying. I will add that I do fertilize my viv plants every 2-3 months by spraying a very dilute fish emulsion/micronutrient around most of my plants, and it helps prevent the anemic yellowing I noticed when I did not do this. As far as a blanket fertilizing, I don't do that, and I don't really see the point in doing so. 



> I am not sure I would agree with that, as my concern with fertilizers is the addition of things that would not be encountered in nature (some of the salts that are used along with inorganics to allow quick uptake).





> Well I'm sure it depends on the formulation of the fertilizer but the only thing needed for quick uptake of nitrogen (the most commonly limiting nutrient) is for it to be provided in the form of ammonia, nitrate, or urea. Those are all naturall occuring molecules and, in fact, the organic compounds must get broken down into ammonia(m) or nitrate before the nitrogen can be readily taken up by the plant. So an ammonia or urea-based fertilizer could really be considered natural and it is what the organic stuff is going to turn into eventually anyway. But any good gardener also knows that these forms of nitrogen fertilizer are more likely to burn plants because they are salts and readily absorbed by the plants so there is greater chance for overdose


Agreed, those are the active forms of nitrogen in fertilizers, and that is usually accomplished by offering those ions in a salt for quick uptake. I don't think I would consider most of the "inorganic" fertilizers I was talking about as natural, as they supply these ions in high concentrations. The ion form seems to me to be what is likely to be absorbed across the frog's skin/membrane, causing toxicity. Other forms such as aminos in fish emulsion are unlikely to cross the skin.





> The breakdown of organics like fish emulsion or kelp would mimic that of other decaying organics in nature.





> True, it does mimic natural decay and there is fairly little danger to using it. But it's important to remember that doing so adds nitrogen to the system which will tend to build up microbial populatons to high levels (if there are nutrients present, something will come in to eat them).


 I would guess that it will just increase the population of microbes already present. If moderate levels of nitrogen are added, I would not think this to be a large concern.



> When the nutrients get depleted, the microbes can crash releasing the nitrogen compounds locked up in their cells which could mean a flush of ammonia or nitrate in the vivarium. It's unlikely to be a big enough flush to be a problem but possible.


Different terrarium setups are more likely to see this swing than others. I like to include activated charcoal to absorb excesses if/when this spike occurs, and I like to keep a false bottom with a recirculating water feature to help buffer this potential. I flush the water reservoir on occasion (2x per year) to prevent buildup of excesses of any metabolites, but I don't know whether it is necessary. Since I routinely trim my terraria and/or take cuttings, I feel it is necessary to replace the micro and macronutrients somehow--organic fertilizers seem like a responsible choice.

I don't use the leaves like you do, as I try to convince myself that I am reducing the likelihood of parasites, etc., although I am probably fooling myself and simply reducing other nutrients that can be suppied to the frogs from the decomposers that hitchike in on the leaves.

I don't find that fish emulsion fouls or creates a nasty smell in the terrarium if it is used sparingly. Actually, in the concentrated form from the brands I use, it is not offensive at all. However, if, once you dilute it in water, you let it stand, it will foul very quickly (likely a buildup of anaerobes). Thus, I think a well aerated substrate is probably best if you are using the fish emulsion. I have personally found decaying fruit to produce an offensive odor, but that is probably due to the amount of fruit. As they say, all things in moderation.

As for nitrogen fixing algaes, I just don't know. It perplexes me that we have to supply epiphytic orchids with more nutrients than the soil based plants. This suggests to me that in our cultivation we are missing something--probably a specific fungus that helps fix the nutrients needed. All I can say is that there are drastic differences in the way that plants will react and grow when you give them just a little bit of help from some organic fertilizer (including your leaf mould, which tends to be a good source of phosphates according to most gardening resources I consult) versus none at all.


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## bbrock (May 20, 2004)

Homer said:


> Agreed, those are the active forms of nitrogen in fertilizers, and that is usually accomplished by offering those ions in a salt for quick uptake. I don't think I would consider most of the "inorganic" fertilizers I was talking about as natural, as they supply these ions in high concentrations. The ion form seems to me to be what is likely to be absorbed across the frog's skin/membrane, causing toxicity. Other forms such as aminos in fish emulsion are unlikely to cross the skin.


Well what I was getting at is that those forms of fertilizer ARE the salts and if you supply the nitrogen in the form of organic compounds, the microbes in the system are going to convert the organics into these same salts before the plants can use them anyway. Those salts are the only forms of nitrogen the plant can use. A plant can't consume an amino acid for example. It must be broken into ammonia(m) or nitrate first. But the point about concentrations is very valid. A teaspoon of ammonia is all available, and all toxic, instantly. A pile of organic matter will make a teaspoon of ammonia slowly over time reducing risk - which is why most people suggest mixing inorganic fertilizers to 1/4 strength.



> I would guess that it will just increase the population of microbes already present. If moderate levels of nitrogen are added, I would not think this to be a large concern.


Yes, it increases population of microbes already present but that builds up a storehouse of nitrogen in little bacteria cells and when that population crashes, all that nitrogen comes pouring out into the system. But I agree the key is to add nitrogen in moderation if you must add nitrogen.



> Different terrarium setups are more likely to see this swing than others. I like to include activated charcoal to absorb excesses if/when this spike occurs, and I like to keep a false bottom with a recirculating water feature to help buffer this potential. I flush the water reservoir on occasion (2x per year) to prevent buildup of excesses of any metabolites, but I don't know whether it is necessary. Since I routinely trim my terraria and/or take cuttings, I feel it is necessary to replace the micro and macronutrients somehow--organic fertilizers seem like a responsible choice.


Yes, and I would guess that nearly all vivaria have a fair amount of buffering capacity built in. As you just pointed out, there are multiple mechanisms for moderating fluxes.



> I don't use the leaves like you do, as I try to convince myself that I am reducing the likelihood of parasites, etc., although I am probably fooling myself and simply reducing other nutrients that can be suppied to the frogs from the decomposers that hitchike in on the leaves.


I'm not getting started on that. I'm sure you saw the big debate over this topic on frognet! I don't have the energy for another one of those.



> I don't find that fish emulsion fouls or creates a nasty smell in the terrarium if it is used sparingly.


I overstated it for sure. The stuff I've used in the past was stinky from the bottle but diluted and applied was not too terrible.




> As for nitrogen fixing algaes, I just don't know. It perplexes me that we have to supply epiphytic orchids with more nutrients than the soil based plants. This suggests to me that in our cultivation we are missing something--probably a specific fungus that helps fix the nutrients needed. All I can say is that there are drastic differences in the way that plants will react and grow when you give them just a little bit of help from some organic fertilizer (including your leaf mould, which tends to be a good source of phosphates according to most gardening resources I consult) versus none at all.


I can tell you exactly what is missing, detrital rain. I recently posted the figures on frognet of the percentage of organic leaf litter that gets hung up in the forest canopy and collects in these epiphytic boles to provide nutrients up high. I don't remember that number but it was huge. But that's a lot of fertilizer hanging up in the trees. I also would be surprised if there weren't nitrogen fixing algae up there. The conditions should be very favorable for such things. Fungi are probably also important for nutrient access and breakdown as most plants in the world live symbiotically with fungi to acquire nutrients. However, fungi cannot manufacture nitrogen out of thin air the way nitrogen fixing plants and bacteria can so there still has to be a source of these nutrients. Rainwater and dryfall can also contribute a fair amount of nitrogen to a forest canopy but I'll bet the bulk comes from suspended leaf litter and possibly nitrogen fixation.


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

> Well what I was getting at is that those forms of fertilizer ARE the salts and if you supply the nitrogen in the form of organic compounds, the microbes in the system are going to convert the organics into these same salts before the plants can use them anyway.


I understand that the active form of the nitrogen/phosphorous/potassium must come in the form of a nitrates, or ammonium (similarly, phosphorous as phosphates, etc.). However, as you point out, fish emulsion and kelp actually supply nitorgen in covalently bonded forms (amino groups in protein) that are broken down by microbes. as you pointed out. I don't agree that the microbes will decompose the organics into the same salts, as most inorganic fertilizers use an anion (typically a metal ion) will not be present in the organic fertilizer. 

A salt is typically considered an ionic complex of both an anion and a cation. I am far less worried about buildup of organic salts or the remaining hydrocarbons from an amino acid than I am about the buildup of sulphates or sodium that is left behind when nitrates or ammonium are used by the plants Further, a fertilizer that is an inorganic salt is going to have the salts in very high concentration. I agree, even kelp and fish emulsion will have the salts present out of the bottle, but in extremely low levels. As the microbe levels build and cause the mineralization and nitrification to increase (relatively slowly), the plants should be able to uptake the free macronutrients.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to start a debate, and I think my loose use of the terms organic/inorganic didn't help. Maybe we have different definitions of salts as well, but I consider a salt to be a complex, and I was mostly using the term salt to refer to a salt with a metal counterion. No, I wasn't trying to open pandora's box with the leaf litter statement. :wink: It's just a thought that runs through my mind, and something I still try to think around and make a judgment. There are trade-offs that each of us make in designing our terraria, and I think that there are multiple successful philosophies. Each of us just has to draw our own line. I think discussions like this help the hobby grow, as we see there are multiple ways to accomplish the same goal successfully.[/quote]


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

HOMER said:


> Thanks for clarifying. I will add that I do fertilize my viv plants every 2-3 months by spraying a very dilute fish emulsion/micronutrient around most of my plants, and it helps prevent the anemic yellowing I noticed when I did not do this. As far as a blanket fertilizing, I don't do that, and I don't really see the point in doing so.


How do you go about dealing with the animals (specifically frogs) when you spray with the ferts? Do you quarantine them during this time?

Luke


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## Homer (Feb 15, 2004)

I spray directly at the plant, and don't hit the frogs. Even if it hits them, I am not overly concerned about negative effects of fish emulsion. I would be concerned about hitting them with inorganic fertilizers. That's the difference I was trying to point out above. My micronutrient solution is made to be placed in freshwater aquaria, so I am not overly concerned about the frogs coming in contact with that, either.


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## E man (Feb 27, 2021)

Poop... any poop you can get your hands no. Its safe and dart frogs get into contact with poop all the time. Not tometion this time it will be buried and out of direct contact. Plus plants eat that stuff up and you wont have to worry about fertilizing ever bc that will last the plant forever.


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## fishingguy12345 (Apr 7, 2019)

E man said:


> any poop you can get your hands no.


I would NOT introduce feces from a different type of animal into a frog tank.


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## bulbophyllum (Feb 6, 2012)

This is also from 2005


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