# The ultimate cheap LED lighting solution???



## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

So I had this idea...LED rope lights...they come in cool and warm white and for larger tanks you could mix both.










So here is the basic idea... These things sell pretty cheap on ebay even in larger sizes especially compared to getting similar numbers of these type leds in other fixtures... Find the biggest rope light you can that you think curled up will fit under a glass top...silicone it into place, cut notches in back plastic strip for cords and ta da...cheap led lighting. You could even spray paint the glass top white on one side (side for the lights, and then black (if you wanted to) on the top to make it look nice). Using flat white paint should reflect around 85% of the light, most back down to the tank floor. (Thats what flat white generally reflects, I didn't make up that number)

You should be able to get a curled up rope 6ft rope light to fit under a 10gal glass top, if not quite then I believe the rope lights can usually be cut shorter leaving the rest of the LEDs working. Especially with a white top, given the number of leds and total wattage of the rope light this should be adequate if not excessive for 10-20gal long. You can find rope lights in a bunch of lengths also for longer tanks...I think this will work for other size tanks that aren't excessively tall also but you'll probably need the white painted top for sure there. I'd experiment though before you paint the glass top of a 30 gal or bigger tank...maybe use cardboard or a piece of wood painted white to test the idea and make sure its enough light. (in fact this could be your top if you wanted) 

Another solution that could be used alone or with rope lights are these (which probably isn't a new idea, but thought it was worth mentioning again)...









225 LED AQUARIUM GROW LIGHT PANEL HYDROPONIC WHITE 110V - eBay (item 180555882180 end time Sep-08-10 19:05:20 PDT)

Also someone linked to these, and I have seen other similar fixtures elsewhere...
IKEA | Integrated lighting | Bookcase integrated lighting | DIODER | Lighting strip

A set like that could probably light a 10gal or 20L all by itself...

I'd wager the right combination of these lighting solutions could even do a 75gal or larger. Really tall tanks are the ones they will probably be less likely to work well on. An array of LED spot lights possibly in conjunction with the lights mentioned here might be better. Using a fixture with downward pointing sockets like this...







(this has a tube light also, other manufactures make them without the tube)

Something like that in conjunction with the robe and under-cabinet lighting would probably work on a taller tank for cheaper then most aquarium led fixtures.

Just a few ideas, hope they are helpful to someone. Not all will allow for the white painted top but you might be able to partially mask off the top and allow clear strips for other lights if you use a combination. I'll likely try the under-cabinet led and robe led on some of my smaller tanks eventually.

You should be able to do a 10gal for under 30 dollars or close to it, thats including, glass top, the rope light, paint and silicone.


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## NickBoudin (Nov 3, 2007)

I am thinking that these LEDs are not powerful enough to provide any sufficient light to plants. 

I mean, it's better then nothing, and more energy efficient then CFLs for say, but I don't know If it'd be worth it?

I'd be cool for someone to do a comparison on 2 ten gallon tanks side by side one with cfl and one with led.


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## AzureFrog (Feb 3, 2009)

I actually bought one of the 12"x12" panels and so far it's great. I tested the amount of light using the light meter on my camera, and it is much brighter than my other viv lights (T8 and T12 bulbs).

Here are the specs:
* Up to 70% more energy efficient than traditional metal halide light bulbs
* Significant reduction in energy use - lower energy bills 
* Comparable to a 75 watt metal halide aquarium lighting system! 
* Covers ~2 square feet and is suitable for all stages of plant growth
* Discreet - no thermal footprint 
* Safe to operate - no risk of exploding bulbs or burns
* No infrared ray and ultraviolet radiation to destroy plants.
* 50,000 hour life cycle with minimum decay, 3 times longer than metal halide bulbs
* Wide-angle (120°) LEDs for max coverage and even output
* LED Bulbs Power: 225 x 0.06 Watt LEDs (225 x White LEDs)
* White LED wavelength: Full spectrum / 6000-7000K
* Precision white LEDs from Bridgelux USA
* LED Bulb Diameter: 5MM
* Power Input: 110V


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## NickBoudin (Nov 3, 2007)

Yeah, that's a 12x12 panel made for plant lighting. I am talking about the LED rope light that is used as decoration, mostly.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

NickBoudin said:


> I am thinking that these LEDs are not powerful enough to provide any sufficient light to plants.
> 
> I mean, it's better then nothing, and more energy efficient then CFLs for say, but I don't know If it'd be worth it?
> 
> I'd be cool for someone to do a comparison on 2 ten gallon tanks side by side one with cfl and one with led.


Its essentially the same type of light....There are no special coatings or anything that make it better or worse then any other light. As long as you have sufficient intensity of "white" light...regardless of the source, plants will grow. The leds used are small and a few of them wouldn't be enough but when you string that many together they make up for their small size. I found some vehicle lights similar to the the under-cabinet lights, same type of Leds, similar number of them and it looked like a couple would be bright enough for a 10gal. Adding the "flat white" top will reflect back around 85% of the light that strikes it. Because of the actual fixtures or "rope" in the way you won't get all of it reflected back but you should get a significant amount. Don't forget either that every plant and anything else in the viv reflects light (or you wouldn't be able to see it) much of that will strike the white top and be directed back down.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

I did a lil experiment with my phone charger cord...Working from memory of having handled a rope light before and seeing them in stores...I tried to figure out how likely it was to be able to bend it enough times to fit under a 10gal. 

Since I don't have an actual one its hard to say but it looked like you should be able to get 3 bends in a 6ft rope basically giving you 4 18inch sections (10gal is 20in long). If I remember how "bendable" they are, I think you could likely get a 9ft rope under a 10gal glass top...maybe a 12ft but definitely not sure on that one. I'm pretty confident I could get a 9ft to fit though. You may even be able to get the bends wide enough that you could place another rope light inside those bends...not sure. I think it would at least be possible with 1 6ft and 1 3ft rope, to place the 3 foot within the bends of the 6ft, giving you 9total.

These are another option for an incandescent light hood like commonly found on 10gal setups...









E27 102 LED Screw Light Bulb Lamp White 5W 110V - eBay (item 330449928966 end time Oct-07-10 01:15:32 PDT)

Little more expensive way to go probably then the rope light but I think 2 of these in an 18inch fixture might even light an 18tall or 20h...maybe...you might need 2 fixtures. Just under $14 a bulb is cheapest I've found so far...not bad considering the life of the bulb. CFL's in such fixtures usually don't last their full life because of the trapped heat...leds probably not much of an issue. Each bulb puts out a comparable amount of lumens to a 10watt CFL...and thats all directed downwards instead of 360 degrees so 2 should do a 10gal fine.

Here is a video of a bulb with almost 20 fewer leds in it (84 instead of 102)...


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## AzureFrog (Feb 3, 2009)

NickBoudin said:


> Yeah, that's a 12x12 panel made for plant lighting. I am talking about the LED rope light that is used as decoration, mostly.


Thanks... I was actually replying to Dave's post.


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## nburns (May 3, 2005)

Thanks for providing these links. I've looked into LED lighting before but never found anything that seemed like it would be cheap enough to warrant switching from tubes. It would be nice to switch over though for the lower heat and also for longer lasting bulbs and fixtures. Some of the fixtures I have go bad after about 8-10 months...


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## 2010tony (Oct 27, 2010)

It is a plant grow led light, looks good. But I think it is not so powerful and bright enough. Looking for a much brighter item. Thank you.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

yeah, the 225 LED panels were discussed in this thread-

LED Grow Lights

Haven't seen any feedback from that OP yet, but from what I've heard those panels are WEAK.... like I said in the other thread though, that's coming from reef people who need more light penetration for water. I still don't think they'd be strong enough to make broms color up though... I've heard in several places that the blue panels aren't even powerful enough to be used as moonlights.

IME, waiting for LEDs to drop in price is the only real option for powerful, inexpensive LED lighting.... otherwise the reef hobby would have found it a long time ago.


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## 2010tony (Oct 27, 2010)

Just sharing with you guys with my experience in grow lights. I purchased the led plant grow lights from the Hero Led Store . They use hundreds of standard basic 5mm leds emitting red / blue colors. Pls see image below. I purchase 5 of 18 watts that are used to replace 50 watt fluorescent lights.










The grow lights has some difference with standard fluorescent lights. You need to remove the ballast and starter before installations. The leds are super bright, so far so good, I like them.


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## frankpayne32 (Mar 17, 2007)

Calling a light source "bright" or "weak" is very subjective. LUX measurements are useful to an extent but the real measurement that needs to be done to determine the efficacy of light used for growing plants is PAR (photosynthetically active radiation). In my experience those LED grow lights that use the little led's don't put out lots of useful radiation.


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## dwizum (Oct 28, 2010)

frankpayne32 said:


> In my experience those LED grow lights that use the little led's don't put out lots of useful radiation.


Or, if they do, the PAR you're getting per watt of power used is abysmal. Standard mini LEDs actually have horrid efficiency (in terms of light produced per watt consumed) compared to most forms of lighting currently used in the hobby. The percieved advantage (in other words, the reason why you can replace "X" watts of florescent with a smaller number of watts of cheap LEDs) comes from the fact that LEDs are inherently highly directional - the light leaves the emitter in a useful direction, you don't have to bounce it off lossy reflectors to get it where you want it.

By comparison, a high-end HP LED can be several hundreds of percent more efficient than even the best "standard" LEDs. With good HP LEDs, you get the best of both worlds - inherently directional light, AND really good efficiency. Plus, HP LEDs are designed to be "lighting class" products. That is, they are designed to last a very long time, and they have been designed to be easy to implement in a high-power array (for instance, it's pretty much impossible to cool a common 5mm gumdrop LED effectively, since it's encased in plastic and has no real thermal path - whereas HP LEDs are designed with good thermal management from the ground up).

The result is that if you are able to replace 100w of CFLs with 50w of common LEDs (i.e. any of the cheap, low-end "grow panels" out there), then you can probably replace that 50w grow panel with 10 or 20w of well-designed HP LEDs.

Of course the perceived disadvantage of HP LEDs is that they cost a lot to set up. However, if you're in this for the long haul, the total cost of ownership can actually be very low, considering you can probably count on 10 - 15 years of lifetime (no lamp replacement costs every few months) and a very, very small power consumption (lower electricity costs).


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## frankpayne32 (Mar 17, 2007)

dwizum said:


> Or, if they do, the PAR you're getting per watt of power used is abysmal. Standard mini LEDs actually have horrid efficiency (in terms of light produced per watt consumed) compared to most forms of lighting currently used in the hobby. The percieved advantage (in other words, the reason why you can replace "X" watts of florescent with a smaller number of watts of cheap LEDs) comes from the fact that LEDs are inherently highly directional - the light leaves the emitter in a useful direction, you don't have to bounce it off lossy reflectors to get it where you want it.
> 
> By comparison, a high-end HP LED can be several hundreds of percent more efficient than even the best "standard" LEDs. With good HP LEDs, you get the best of both worlds - inherently directional light, AND really good efficiency. Plus, HP LEDs are designed to be "lighting class" products. That is, they are designed to last a very long time, and they have been designed to be easy to implement in a high-power array (for instance, it's pretty much impossible to cool a common 5mm gumdrop LED effectively, since it's encased in plastic and has no real thermal path - whereas HP LEDs are designed with good thermal management from the ground up).
> 
> ...


All true stuff. Like many on here I am also a reef keeper as well where using high power LED's is trending right now. Based on the numbers I've seen the high power LED's are actually barely more efficient than metal halide bulbs. But, like you said little to no light is wasted as the light is more or less unidirectional. So, in terms of usable light they are more efficient. However, I have done a cost comparison between the two and until LED's come down in price a bit halides are usually more cost effective for larger systems, even in the long run. The reason for this is that the high end metal halide reflectors make the halide bulbs more or less unidirectional as well, focusing most of the light they produce into the tank. Also, studies have shown that certain metal halide bulbs only need to be replaced every two years. Taking all this into account, an LED fixture for an average to large tank would take at least five years (probably longer) to become cost effective. Since these things have not been proven for decades like halides (in terms of actual usable life) I will hold off for now. But, I'm not putting down LED's, they are the lighting wave of the future. Their efficacy is growing exponentially and their cost is also going down. Maybe in a few years they will be worth it.


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