# Chiriqui Grande Synonym?



## RABW (May 27, 2009)

I've seen a couple pictures of Chiriqui Grande pum's that look very similar to some of the Chiriqui River pumilios, and I was wondering what the difference is. Can someone please help me out?


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## Estrato (Jan 6, 2009)

Chiriqui River (from my gallery)























Chiriqui Grande (from an ad in the marketplace)









Similar looking, but different types of pumilio. The Grandes look more yellow and have a more marbled pattern from what I've seen, and the River have fine spots and darker blue legs.


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

Without addressing your specific question ...

"Brunos" came in first - then what a lot of us call "Yellow Bellies".

The Yellow Bellies appear to be "Grandes" and "Rivers". They seem to have yellow more often.

The Brunos are normally Green/Grey/Black maybe a little blue. No yellow.

With these frogs, it is imperative to identify the line they came from (what year the import was).

s


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## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

I have to disagree with you, Scott: I have what were brought in as "Brunos"...two have bright yellow bellies and one has a robin egg blue belly. Attached below is an image of one of the ones with a yellow belly. However, what these frogs actually "are" is a whole seperate issue.

As far as the original question...Chiriqui Grande is a town in the Bocas region of Panama, which has a river or two that runs by it: http://richarddetrich.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/chiriqui.jpg. The Rio Chiriqui Grande Viejo is a popular whitewater river that runs near the border of Costa Rica and Panama.

My _hunch_ is that Rio Chiriqui and Chiriqui Grande are two terms for the same frog and that they were collected near the town of Chiriqui Grande. However, the best info we have is the pointing finger of a collector on a map of Panama.

My understanding is that some of these frogs came in (with the collector pointing to a spot on the map). Someone saw the frogs and, having been to Panama, said they looked similar to frogs from the "Bruno" location. They frogs were then dubbed and sold as Bruno. Later, others said they looked like frogs from the Chiriqui Grande location, and given what seemed like a greater likelihood of their collection there vs. the far side of the Valiente Peninsula, people dubbed and sold them as such.

Personally, using belly pattern and coloration, I think Chiriqui Grande seems like a better fit...but we'll probably never know.

In that same shipment were some red frogs with greyish legs, and the collectors said they were collected in the same area. However, at the time, no one knew of a red frog from that area (the logic, I guess, being that if we in the hobby don't know about them...they must not be there), and so they were given a title of a morph that they looked the closest to that we actually had information on: Man Creek. Later, however, someone then reported that there is in fact a red population of frogs in the Chiriqui Grande area with grey legs. However, I believe the actual Man Creek locale actually isn't that far away from Chiriqui Grande...so where these frogs were collected from is hard to say. As Scott said, to keep them seperate and manage them as seperate populations is most likely the best and safest thing to do.

In light of all this, it sure would be nice if frogs could come out of Panama with more precise collection and locale information...


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## frogmanroth (May 23, 2006)

Here is a pic of what I was sold as F1 Chiriqui Grande. I do feed naturose all the time and that may be what makes them more yellow also. But when I first got them they looked more like the pics above? So who knows?


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

All I am saying is that the original Bruno imports were NOT Chirique. 

I know not what they were - but they were not Chirique's (like the "Yellow Bellies" we've seen since).

s


skylsdale said:


> I have to disagree with you, Scott: I have what were brought in as "Brunos"...two have bright yellow bellies and one has a robin egg blue belly. Attached below is an image of one of the ones with a yellow belly. However, what these frogs actually "are" is a whole seperate issue.


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