# Frog with missing skin? Help!!



## hypostatic

Sorry for the bad pictures. I was doing my daily check on the frogs before work, and I noticed that this frog seemed to be missing a patch of skin on his left arm/hand! I was freaking out! I don't know if the pictures are showing this, but the patch seemed to be red/purple. The frog seemed fine yesterday, and I did not notice this on the frog. Any idea what the prognosis is for stuff like this?

I am in the process of finding an ARAV vet accessible to me (anyone been to The Center For Avian & Exotic Medicine in Manhattan?), and after work I am setting up a QT container for this guy.

I did a search on the subject and found this thread with a similar case it looks like:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/88638-black-jeans-skin-lesion.html


> So here is the plan:
> 
> 1- Apply the silver sulfadiazine cream to the lesion once a day for 3 days
> 
> if no improvement then
> 
> 2- soak frog in a .01% fluconazole bath


So I know that people on the boards can't type in a magical remedy into their keyboards and solve my problem, but I would really appreciate hearing back from members that have had similar cases and how they treated their frogs, and how (and if) their frogs recovered. Thanks.


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## JPccusa

Found the thread I was thinking of... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...t/91698-lower-leg-inflammation-infection.html


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## hypostatic

JPccusa said:


> Found the thread I was thinking of... http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...t/91698-lower-leg-inflammation-infection.html


Thanks for this!

Also, whats the general QT container setup like? Is it just a shoebox-sized container with unbleached paper towels, some leaves, and a place to hide? How do I tell unbleached paper towels from bleached paper towels? Also, should I provide a petri dish with water or something for the frog to soak in?


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## eyeviper

Nice find. I was about to post that link as soon as I saw your post. If you get the plain white paper towels you will be fine. My Qt was a 12x8x8 rubbermaid container. I kept the container humid but kinda dry. I believe my frog got the infection due to overly moist conditions on the ground and in the air. I did not use medications as I saw the leg getting better rather quickly with dryer conditions but I was monitoring the frog constantly and kept it well fed. I was advised by an exotic vet to treat the wound with Silversulfadiazene and the frog with Baytril drops topically.
Here are a few other useful meds he recommended. Metronidizole is an antibacterial, antiprotozoal, and APPETITE STIMULANT. Silversulfadiazene is a topical antibiotic and antifungal that promotes healing while discouraging scarring. It should be used on ALL skin lesions. Baytril is a strong systemic antibiotic that needs to be mixed carefully. It is mixed according to the size of the frog treated. Only a few drops are used daily.

I would monitor the frog, keep it fed and warm (dont let the temps drop too low at night is can zap more energy from them), dry up the conditions a little while keeping the humidity high and see if you see any improvement. If the infection continues spreading secure the above meds asap.


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## eyeviper

hypostatic said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> -whats the general QT container setup like?
> A small rubbermaid with paper towels, and a clean hide. I use a dark plastic box so fewer pathogens can harbor on it you can use coconut though with no issues I am sure.
> 
> -some leaves:
> I don't like adding leaves to a true QT for an infection like I had as it could have more bacteria..not necessarily a bad thing but for an infection I went for the cleaner more sterile environment.
> 
> -How do I tell unbleached paper towels from bleached paper towels?
> just go with plain white ones. I have never had a problem.
> 
> Also, should I provide a petri dish with water or something for the frog to soak in?-
> No just keep it humid in there. slightly moist paper towels will be fine but keep the container warm and you wont have any problems.


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## Jonas35

Might want to take that lil' guy to a vet and have a swab done of the wound and submit it for bacterial culture and staining just to rule out some of the bad bugs


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## frogparty

looks like pics Ive seen of mycobaceterial infection


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## hypostatic

Can i get silver sulfadiazine cream without a prescription?


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## JPccusa

I don't think so, unless you order from out of the States. 

Silver sulfadiazine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## frogparty

Contact Dr Frye


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## hypostatic

frogparty said:


> Contact Dr Frye


Sigh. Of course. Closed on Wednesdays. I'll just try to keep my cool until tomorrow morning I guess.


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## GP dynamite

I've heard great things about the avian and exotic vet in manhattan. Pricey but thorough


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## fishieness

The Center for Avian and Exotic Medicine is great, but does not specialize in frogs.
Marc Valitutto is a great home-visit vet and great with frogs. Of course, home visits are expensive, but so are vets.
Send him an email at [email protected] or give him a call at 917-543-6323



hypostatic said:


> Sorry for the bad pictures. I was doing my daily check on the frogs before work, and I noticed that this frog seemed to be missing a patch of skin on his left arm/hand! I was freaking out! I don't know if the pictures are showing this, but the patch seemed to be red/purple. The frog seemed fine yesterday, and I did not notice this on the frog. Any idea what the prognosis is for stuff like this?
> 
> I am in the process of finding an ARAV vet accessible to me (anyone been to The Center For Avian & Exotic Medicine in Manhattan?), and after work I am setting up a QT container for this guy.
> 
> I did a search on the subject and found this thread with a similar case it looks like:
> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/88638-black-jeans-skin-lesion.html
> 
> 
> So I know that people on the boards can't type in a magical remedy into their keyboards and solve my problem, but I would really appreciate hearing back from members that have had similar cases and how they treated their frogs, and how (and if) their frogs recovered. Thanks.


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## briley5

I did find this however I dont know if its the same stuff. silver sulfadiazine cream - Google Search


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## Dave II

Looks like the same kind of infection my oyapocks had. I had to medicate all my oyapocks it spread to them. 1. Email Dr.Frye 2. Is your substrate wet??


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## hypostatic

Ok here are some better pictures I took. They are much higher quality. Also, probably every angle:


















And here's the QT I set up:







Dave II said:


> Looks like the same kind of infection my oyapocks had. I had to medicate all my oyapocks it spread to them. 1. Email Dr.Frye 2. Is your substrate wet??


It doesn't look/feel really wet. Moist perhaps. But its not like dripping or anything. The substrate is also covered with leaf litter. Also, what did you end up treating your frogs with? And I'll send Dr. Frye an email; also calling again tomorrow.


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## hypostatic

So I checked on the frog this morning, and he appears to be in stable condition. When I checked he was actually in the middle of his morning poop haha.

Also, yesterday night before transferring the frog to his QT container I found some eggs in the coco hut. Any ideas if this is a good sign of health? (the injured frog that is in the QT is a male).


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## mordoria

I have some silver sulfadine if u need it. I'll be back in NYC on Monday 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## hypostatic

OK update time.

Took him to the vet today. The staff had a kick when I told them my frog's name -- Dr Pepper lol. The vet wasn't listed as ARAV certified on the ARAV website, but he was an exotic animal vet (apparently none of the ARAV vets in NJ work on the weekends).

He pretty much said what I thought all along -- my frog is missing from his forearm. He said it looked like his "arm was skinned," and he couldn't tell if it was infected or not. He said what might have happened was that he got his arm stuck in something in the viv and the skin ripped when he tried to struggle free. Here's a highlighted pic for reference:










So the green circle is where the skin is missing. He said the yellow circle might have been where the tear/abrasion might have started.

Anywho, he said it would take a few weeks for the skin to grow back, and that since he was eating normally he should recover. But his skin would probably not look as nice -- I'm ok with this as long as he's happy and healthy. He initially prescribed ciprofloxacin drops, and I asked if i could also get some silver sulfadiazine (since members on DB have had good success with it), so I'll be treating the frog with those two drugs. I'll update you guys on his status periodically, and I'm looking forward to a full recovery


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## frogface

Great! I have very high expectations for a full recovery with this frog. It looked like a scrape to me vs an infection was about to say that when I saw your last post. I shoulda been a vet, lol. I've used the silver sulfadiazine on a couple of frogs with injuries; primarily rub sores from shipping. They healed completely but the skin stayed a bit discolored. Please keep us updated 

eta: it does not look infected to me, and, I've decided that I know about these things. So, you have nothing to worry about


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## hypostatic

frogface said:


> eta: it does not look infected to me, and, I've decided that I know about these things. So, you have nothing to worry about


That's comforting haha.

Here's a quick ~1week update:
The frog is still very active and is eating very well. I haven't noticed if the wound has changed size much. It does, however, appear to have changed to a duller pink/purple/red color -- hopefully its a sign of skin regrowth, and it's not an artifact of lighting or wishful thinking.

ALSO, the day after I put him in QT, I found some eggs in the viv. Today I found out that they were fertile! Even though he was injured, he still managed to fertilize one last batch of eggs!


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## frogface

hypostatic said:


> ALSO, the day after I put him in QT, I found some eggs in the viv. Today I found out that they were fertile! Even though he was injured, he still managed to fertilize one last batch of eggs!


You can't keep a good frog down!


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## hypostatic

OK, here's the ~2 week update:

The frog is doing quite well. He doesn't seem to have lost any weight and is very active. A bit TOO active. He recognizes the Q-tip means med application. He's never really been afraid of hands or anything, but he knows the Q-tip means business. And he hops away as best he can haha.

His skin has noticeably improved. I think the upper portion of his arm near the elbow that was gray is back to blue. The red part on his hand/wrist seems to have shrunk, and now there's definitely a white/gray covering of skin there.

He's healing!!!


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## frogface

Yay!! Please post update pics when you get a chance.


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## hypostatic

okay I managed to take one good update pic lol. Side by side, week0 with week2:










To me it looks like the top gray part (where it started as a scratch?) seems to have healed. I think there's some scarring, but I don't think it's apparent in the picture.

The main cut seems to have shrunk a bit in size. It's coloration also seems to have changed a bit from a more vivid red/purple to a more grayish/white/purple color. I think this white stuff is new skin growing in.


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## frogface

Wow! That looks tons better!


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## WendySHall

Did you happen to figure out where in the viv he got his arm stuck? I imagine it will be almost impossible to find out. But, it would be a shame to have this happen again.


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## hypostatic

No I haven't. I'd have to see a smoking gun, like it's skin hanging off of something, to be comfortable claiming anything was the cause really.

Frog skin _IS_ pretty delicate after all, so it could have been lots of things?


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## hypostatic

Alright, status update time! There's a bit of a time gap, buuuuttt that's ok. Here's how the whole thing has unfolded so far:

WEEK 0









WEEK 2









WEEK 5








At this point I think he was like 70-80% healed. He was getting REALLY restless in the QT bin. Might have escaped once or twice when I opened to feed/medicate.... Oh, at this point I put him back in the viv. I was leaving for vacation for a few days, and the viv's much more stable in temp/humidity than the QT. Plus he was mostly healed anyway.

WEEK 6








Let's say 90-95% healed? And when I came back from vacation, I found some very nice eggs =]



frogface said:


> You can't keep a good frog down!


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## rigel10

I think it's a good result. But can you briefly (as a handbook) describe what you did, treatments, drugs and doses? Above all, what causes the vet has indicated for this skin disease?


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## hypostatic

rigel10 said:


> I think it's a good result. But can you briefly (as a handbook) describe what you did, treatments, drugs and doses? Above all, what causes the vet has indicated for this skin disease?


Sorry for, uh, taking so long to reply lol.

First of all, I would like to make it clear that the vet did not believe that this was the result of a "skin disease", but rather a mechanical injury where the skin got ripped off somehow.

That being said, the vet prescribed antibiotics to keep the wound from getting infected. He initially prescribed 0.3% Ciprofloxacin ophthalmic solution (eyedrops). But I've read on the boards that hobbyists often use silver sulfadiazine for skin related issues so I also asked that he prescribe that. He prescribed 1% Silver Sulfadiazine cream. I thought it would be a good idea because it's often used in people for aiding in the regrowth of skin in severe burns (and this is sort of a similar situation).

The vet indicated that the Ciprofloxacin drops be applied twice daily. One treatment of Ciprofloxacin could be substituted with Silver Sulfadiazine cream if I desired, and that I should rinse the cream off at the end of the day with saline solution.

What I _actually_ did wasn't quite so rigorous, however. I applied one or the other a lot less frequently (maybe a few times per week at the lowest frequency), and I never rinsed the cream off with saline, as the frog wasn't a big fan of it and usually wiped it off.

I did however keep a close eye on the frog's general behavior, appetite, and how the wound looked on a bi-daily basis. If the wound started to look unhappy I would have increased the dosing of the antibiotics to the vet's recommendation.

Hope that helps!


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## mfsidore

I seem to have the same problem but on my females back, but it looks gray like the healing picture of this frog. I just noticed it today...


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## hypostatic

mfsidore said:


> I seem to have the same problem but on my females back, but it looks gray like the healing picture of this frog. I just noticed it today...


Got a picture?

If it's the same I would recommend doing the same thing I did -- separate her out from the main enclosure and put her in a QT for observation. If you have some silver sulfadiazine around that's what I treated with


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## mfsidore

I don't have a pic but it looks gray, like its healing. It doesn't seem to bother but... She eats fine she's quick. But sadly no I don't even know what silver suifite is. I know I spelled it wrong. Stupid spell check


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## hypostatic

Well if you can't get access to that (it's a prescription cream) then I think I've read that you can use the non-pain relief neosporin. It's a good idea to prevent it from getting infected. I'd imagine the grey skin is from a scratch or something.


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