# WOOHOO!!! Orange bass.



## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

AFAIK, the first breeding of orange E. bassleri in the US. Though I'm probably wrong about that, it's still very cool!










Now, couple questions. As you can see, there's a bad egg smack dab in the middle. How can I remove this? I'm used to removing bad eggs small clutches where any egg is near the edge, but I don't know how to deal with one in the middle of such a huge clutch.

Second, epip egg/tad care advice and experiences?

Thanks for any input, and once again, Yeehaw!

-Solly


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## sbreland (May 4, 2006)

Congrats Solly! 
From the looks of it, you'll have plenty of offspring here in a couple of months


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

WOW! 40 plus eggs from one clutch, now thats what I call a good breeder. Good Luck!
Jason


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

Actually, "only" 38 eggs. Looks like I'll be upping my FF culture count :roll:

-Solly


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i got exactly 40.

congrats!


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Congrats Solly. Nice to see you appear from the depths to post.

As for egg care, I would follow whatever it is that Bill does b/c he seems to get it right. :lol: 

You might be able to use a syringe to get that egg in the middle out. Keep this updated with development pics.

I also counted exactly 40 not including the bad one.


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## leucofrog (Dec 16, 2006)

congrats on the eggs  btw, how is your big outdoor viv coming a long?


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## nitsuj (Jan 21, 2007)

I am also wondering how your 60000 gallon is going. :roll:


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2007)

Can we see some pics of the parents?


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Congratulations Solly...if you aren't the first you are certainly within the vanguard.

Don't worry about removing the infertile egg, it will cause no problem. I would add sufficient water containing tadpole tea to 1/2 cover the eggs and place the covered dish in a well ventilated area. 

Bill


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Congrats, and keep us updated on how they come along. I am interested to hear if they have some of the same issues as the "black" bassleri.


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## Anoleo2 (Feb 1, 2006)

Wow! That's awesome!

Yeah, we need some pics of the new parents! 8)


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

elmoisfive said:


> Don't worry about removing the infertile egg, it will cause no problem. I would add sufficient water containing tadpole tea to 1/2 cover the eggs and place the covered dish in a well ventilated area.
> 
> Bill


Bill, thanks for the advice. It surprises me that it doesn't need removing; in Dendrobates clutches a bad egg tends to encourage molding elsewhere in the clutch IME. But I'll take your advice since you have much more epip experience than I do. 

I already have the eggs half submerged in water/TT. I'm an el cheapo kind of guy, so they're not actually in a petri dish; they're on an old yogurt/parmesan cheese plastic lid. So, I've just done with them as I do with all my other eggs--put the plastic on top of damp paper towels in a covered tupperware container. Seems to work fine for all my other frogs, so should be OK. 

Do you have pics of your tad setup? I'm planning a shallow communal tank, with only 2-4 inch water depth, but a lot of surface area. Oak leaves, java and gravel in the dish. Any advice here? Thanks for advice and tolerating my picking of your brain.

Everyone else, thanks for the congrats. As for the 60000 gallon, well, let's just say I've been stuck in bed a little more than I'd like. It's going though...just very slowly.

-Solly


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

I know it's down the road a bit but believe me when I tell you when these guys pop their front legs they will drown in a teaspoon full of water. I used to put Silverstonei into a tank with full tails as soon as they popped their front legs with no ill effects and I lost some of my nicest Bassleri (color wise at least) when they drowned within a day of getting all 4 limbs.
Good luck, nice clutch!


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

(pulls self out of the depths)....Congrats! (sinks back down)


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## AndrewFromSoCal (Jan 1, 2007)

Dang check those out..


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

with my bassleri I raise them communally and they are doing very well. 

SLS is common amongst CB epips.

they drown very easily and prefer to come out of the water with 3/4th of a tail, so plan accordingly.

I dont usually worry about the odd bad egg.

good luck with them!!

shoot over some parent pics when you have a chance.

Shawn


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

So time for an update I guess...

The eggs hatched Monday, the 19th. They were seperated into two 190 oz containers, roughly 20 tads in each. They appeared healthy and actively swimming for the first 36 hours; however, when I came down to look today, about 50% of the tads were dead.  In both containers.

So, it wasn't some particular problem with one of the containers, and I really can't imagine what did it. Maybe low temps last night, though all of my other newborn tads are fine...

So, I'm down to 19 tads....

-Solly


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Sorry to hear that but hey, 19 is more than 0 right?

Good luck with them.


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

Yeah. What frustrates me though is that they just died spontaneously for no apparent reason...Not something that I can work to prevent in the future.

-Solly


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## elmoisfive (Dec 31, 2004)

Solly,

I have also seen pretty heavy tadpole die off early on with the black bassleri for reasons that I can't identify. I used to see the same with my Santa Isabels but don't anymore...perhaps due to the fact that I let the males transport tads to water in the viv and most likely only the most fit tadpoles manage to get up onto dad's back.

On the other hand I've seen virtually zero tad mortality with the green trivs from eggs to tads to froglets so it's a bit of a mystery. You might let the father carry the next clutch to water and let the tads 'harden' for a few days prior to pulling them. I do this with the Santa Isabels and it seems to get them off to a good start.

Good luck with the remaining 19.

Bill


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

Found clutch #2 under the hut today, another 35+ eggs. The remaining tads from the first clutch continue to do well.

-Solly


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## glowfrog (May 3, 2006)

Great news!

Thanks for the update.





Stephanie


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

Time for an update.

I let the father transport clutch number two, and still had the roughly 50% dieoff. So, I guess that's just how it'll be. Clutch number three came about two weeks after clutch number two; I now have a total of 60-70 bass tads. One of the joys of raising communally is I don't have to count them  No clutches have been laid since; they laid 3 within a month and it's now been quite a while. Maybe they're more cyclical than our typical dendrobates?

A couple of tads from clutch number one are popping front legs:










And I've given those couple a little 2.5 gallon morphing tank, with about a 1/4" of water and a muddy cocofiber/orchid bark slurry to climb out onto:










Let me know what you think of this setup. And fast, 'cause the rest should be popping front legs soon!

-Solly


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

Oh, and one other thing. I know the tad pictured almost looks like it has SLS, but it has no trouble holding its head up, so I think its OK...time will tell.

-Solly


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

wishIwereAnExpert said:


> Oh, and one other thing. I know the tad pictured almost looks like it has SLS, but it has no trouble holding its head up, so I think its OK...time will tell.
> 
> -Solly


If your talking about the tad pictured right above your rearing container it's legs look great to me, very healthy, but that is the point i would pull them out of any water, they could drown in a teaspoonful.
Mark


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

The tad pictured above the rearing container is _in_ the rearing container. Do you think it'll drown despite having an easy exit to land?

-Solly


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## sports_doc (Nov 15, 2004)

Solly
I use sphagnum for them to crawl out onto, same set up though otherwise...

Any out of the water yet?

When you are ready and want to consider a trade, I'll have some Blk Bassleri waiting for you 

Best,

Shawn


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

No black bass for me. But I'm sure we can find something to trade for (cough tricolor cough)...

I used to use sphagnum for morphing containers, but it's so damn absorbent...I would setup the container, and the next day all the tadpole water would be absorbed! Sadly enough, I actually have suffocated tads in this fashion. That was long ago, though. 

Anyway, I'm amazed how small these are morphing out, maybe the size of an adult imitator or so. Much smaller than my azureus neonates, even though the adults are roughly the same size.

-Solly


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

9 froglets in total survived from clutch one. I'm confident those ones will continue to be healthy.










Look for these for sale in the next few weeks.

-Solly


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Smaller froglet size relative to adults is common in Epipedobates... and frogs in general. One of the reasons PDFs have done so well in captivity is their relatively small adult size and relatively large morphing size. Another way to think of it... they only spend so much energy on reproduction. The fewer eggs the larger the froglet size (this is why thumbnails can morph out nearly half the length of adults!). Epipedobates have many, many more eggs per clutch, and these frogs are much smaller compared to adults. Take it a step further into truely explosive breeders... toads lay a few thousand eggs at a go... adults can be a few inches to almost a foot in size, yet freshly morphed toadlets feed on mites. Even Atelopus, which have relately small clutches for toads, will have adults that are 35-45mm in length and morph toadlets ~5mm in length that would choke on a 2mm springtail.

Congrats, and keep up with pics! Can see see mom and dad too? I love comparing froglet to adult pics and seeing how epis change as they grow.


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## MonopolyBag (Jun 3, 2007)

Jason DeSantis said:


> WOW! 40 plus eggs from one clutch, now thats what I call a good breeder. Good Luck!
> Jason


Ha, you counted I bet...


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