# Leaf Litter



## decev (Dec 3, 2009)

I see the unqualified use of "Leaf Litter" all over the place. What exactly does that mean? I have about a metric * load of oak leaves outside all of the time. Can I just boil those and throw them in? Or do they have to be almond, magnolia, or other such leaves that I keep seeing on websites. What's the difference? And is "live oak" different from all other types of oak?

Thanks


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

You can use whatever type suites you best. The difference between pin oak and live oak are the leaves. The live oak are thick and smaller, they look like a mini magnolia leaf. The boiling and baking is not necessary if collected from a chemical free environment. But I always go by the rule of doing what makes you feel comfortable. Most of the leaves used in the hobby are someones prefernce. I personally use live oak because it makes a nice tight and compact floor.
J


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## HunterB (Apr 28, 2009)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/46634-leaf-litter-debate.html

the best leaf litter thread ive seen so far


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## snooknfrogs (Sep 25, 2009)

That all depends on what type of oak tree's you have. The leaves you use in fact do not need to be boiled... Some do it as a precaution to eliminate the introduction of certain "unwanted" animals into their vivs... such as snails! Boiling will however reduce the amount of time it takes for the leaves to break down thus requiring more leaves!

Live oak leaves grow down here in the south and are TOTALLY different from other oak leaves... They are thich hardy leaves that really last well in the viv under heavy moisture and high humidity... Plus they look great in the viv... the leaves from live oak are a smaller leave which many people like. Southern magnolia leaves have a similar structure and thickness as live oak but in an overall larger package... some leaves grow nearly a foot long! I personally used to use them but have quit becaue I found a "better" leaf... sea grape leaves... They are similar in size to magnolia (some are bigger and some are smaller) but they last longer in the viv... in my experience they also promote MORE micro fauna growth, such as tropical srping tails, which actually live in sea grape leaves in their natural environment! On top of all that they look, in my opinion, better as they are a true tropical plant!

It all depends on your personal taste for the look you want. I use live oak in all my tanks to some extent... thumbs have a more live oak than sea grape, with the entire bottom of the enclosure covered in live oak leaves with a few sea grape leaves thrown in for the tropical effect... and my larger frog tanks... leucs, tincs and so on have a few live oak leaves but the bulk of the litter is sea grape... And by the way... I don't boil or bake any of the leaves in my viv's... I just run them under water and and then throw them in the viv... no problems... be sure that if you collect your own that they come from a place were no fertalizer's or pestacide's are used! 

JP


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## decev (Dec 3, 2009)

Wow thanks for all of the fast replies. That thread was great. All of my questions are answered... thank!


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

Boiling and baking is not just a method of removing chemicals/pesticides. It's also very important if you live in an area where chytrid fungus is present . . .


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

melas said:


> Boiling and baking is not just a method of removing chemicals/pesticides. It's also very important if you live in an area where chytrid fungus is present . . .


Actually through drying is known to kill chytrid... it doesn't have to be through baking or boiling. 

Ed


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## decev (Dec 3, 2009)

melas said:


> Boiling and baking is not just a method of removing chemicals/pesticides. It's also very important if you live in an area where chytrid fungus is present . . .


Speaking of that melas.... are we in one of those areas? Isn't it pretty much everywhere?


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## snooknfrogs (Sep 25, 2009)

Hey Ed,

I hadn't heard that. What would be condsidered "dry" though? Just curious because down here the humidity never really drops below 65% or so year round... it's 100% right now... it wont quit freaking raining!!! And I want to go get some leaves  

JP


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

If you get it up off the ground and let it dry until it will crumble then it should be dry enough. At this time, there are no known resting spores for the fungus that causes chytrid and the infectious stage (zoospores) are very intolerant of any drying. 

I collect red oak leaves in the fall that are dry (on top of the grass) and place them in a open top cardboard box for a month or so to complete thier drying and then I store them in paper bags (or in the box). 

Ed


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## snooknfrogs (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks Ed! Do you know if drying them out completely like that will kill anything else "bad"? Like snails or slugs? That's a cocern I've had lots of questions about?

JP


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Total drying will eliminate slugs but some snails can aestivate and get around it however if you examine the leaf litter and collect it soon after it falls this won't be a problem. 

Ed


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

decev said:


> do they have to be almond, magnolia, or other such leaves that I keep seeing on websites. What's the difference?


If this was mentioned, I missed it. Something to keep in mind is that not all leaves are created equal. The reason you see the same leaves often is because they have been found to hold up under viv conditions pretty well. Some leaves become a mushy mess quickly, so some experimentation may be in order.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The ones that people use hold up a long time due to the structural molecules that resist decay however this is not necessarily the ideal (outside of aesthetics) as these also resist microfaunal ingestion... I tend to use a lot of red oak, with some swamp magnolia and maple mixed into the tanks as these break down more quickly and where I want something aesthestically pleasing I use bay magnolia. 

Ed


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## Boondoggle (Dec 9, 2007)

Ed said:


> The ones that people use hold up a long time due to the structural molecules that resist decay however this is not necessarily the ideal (outside of aesthetics) as these also resist microfaunal ingestion...


I never considered that. Thanks.


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

I find beech to be a nice middle ground between long lasting decoratio and microfuna sustainability


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