# Leuc with broken legs??



## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Well guys I need some advice on one of my new leucs. I recently got a group of five adult leucs about three hours from where I live. We just left the frogs that we bought in their tanks for the trip. They seemed fine to us. It wasn't an overly bumpy ride or anything like that. The frogs came with the tanks that they were in and there were supposed to be two pairs in the tank that we liked, but it ended up having five all together and the fifth was just left in there for us. So since we took the whole tank as not to stress the frogs by removing them, we didn't see each one first. So this frog could have already been like this I guess. 

Anyway, it looks like both of its front legs are broken. We figured that it happened during the trip. It holds one of the legs straight out in front of it and doesn't seem to be able to bend it or use it at all. I have taken some pics and just need to have some time to set up a way to be able to post them here. When I took the pics I noticed that it looks like it can't use either of its front legs. It just seems like they don't move. Any advice on this would be fabulous. I will try very hard to have time to sit down and get some pics up tomorrow. I read the post about a dislocated leg that everyone seemed to think was muscle spasms caused by a calcium deficiency. I have been dusting its flies with straight calcium and it is eating. Could it be spasms? Or from a deficiency? Thanks in advance for any help.

-Shelley


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Well here goes nothing. I've never posted pics before, so someone please let me know if they work.

















-Shelley


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

*spindley?*

Might be spindley - the front legs don't appear to be as fat as they should be. We've actually have seen froglets live for over a year with it. If it is spindley there isn't much you can do for the little guy......

It is possible that it is a calcium deficiency ......


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

I was wondering about sls, but both of its front legs look uniform and of normal size. They didn't seem distorted really. For sls aren't they smaller or twisted looking? Also if it is a calcium deficiency would it correct itself with more calcium being given? I just feel sorry for the little guy. He has great body weight and seems to move aroung okay. Thanks for the reply though.

-Shelley


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

Froglets suffering from sls don't necessarily have distorted legs. Most that I have seen, all but one, have had perfectly normal looking legs but are extremely thin and frail.


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

snmreptiles said:


> I was wondering about sls, but both of its front legs look uniform and of normal size. They didn't seem distorted really. For sls aren't they smaller or twisted looking? Also if it is a calcium deficiency would it correct itself with more calcium being given? I just feel sorry for the little guy. He has great body weight and seems to move aroung okay. Thanks for the reply though.
> 
> -Shelley


They may be uniform in size but they don't look like the right 'thickness' to me. That's why I'm leaning toward spindly. Like khoff said, SLS doesn't always mean twisted. I too have seen them with perfectly 'normal' looking legs just skinny....

If it's a calcium deficiency it's a pretty severe one. Usually you will see signs such as seizures as well. Are any of the other ones deformed or behaving oddly?


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

> If it's a calcium deficiency it's a pretty severe one. Usually you will see signs such as seizures as well. Are any of the other ones deformed or behaving oddly?


The others all look fine. They move around fine and eat like pigs. We actually even got some eggs from them a few days ago!  I still can't believe that after being moved into a new tank that they laid in less than a week in there! We also did see this frog have a couple seizures as well. That is why I have been dusting its flies with straight calcium. If it is sls is it eventually just going to die? Should a frog with sls be put out of it's missery? Also when sls does happen is it just random as to how many legs end up being messed up, or is it always the front legs?

Thanks again for the help guys.

-Shelley


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

All the pics I've seen of frogs with SLS have normal looking back legs, but undersized or malformed front legs.

Your guy may just have extreme calcium deficiency coupled with stress from the move. I remember hearing somewhere that darts will 'play dead' and have seizures when frightened. Since you mentioned the others having seizures, that might be the problem. You might want to try seperating him, if you haven't already.


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Arklier- We seperated him when we got home with them and noticed his legs. And what I meant by the seizures is that the one with the messed up legs had some seizures. The other four seem perfectly fine. I haven't seen any of them have any seizures, just this guy. We'll see what happens I guess.

-Shelley


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Whoops, sorry. Read it wrong. They say time heals all wounds, one way or another. He's a really nice looking leuc, hope he lives. You'll probably want to avoid breeding him if it turns out to be permeniant.


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

> Whoops, sorry. Read it wrong. They say time heals all wounds, one way or another. He's a really nice looking leuc, hope he lives. You'll probably want to avoid breeding him if it turns out to be permeniant.


Yeah, I agree, I wouldn't want to try to breed him either. But if it is something that is permenant you don't think that it will kill him? I really need to research spindley leg, as I know nothing about it. It isn't something that kills frogs though? Or shouldn't be euthinized because of it? I just feel bad for the poor thing scooting around with no use of his front arms.  Thanks though and I will post any new info on the little guy.

-Shelley


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## khoff (Feb 18, 2004)

SLS doesn't kill the frogs, its the starvation from not being able to properly hunt for food. Usually euthanizing is the best option, but I wouldn't be so sure its SLS. It was mentioned before that frogs CAN live a year with SLS but this isn't very common. I think its stretching saying that one of the adult frogs you got has sls. I wouldn't be so quick to rule out the idea that its just stress. The biggest issue is if the frog continues to eat. If it is eating there is a decent chance it will get better, if it stops eating it will ultimately die. Hope this helps.

Kevin Hoff


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2004)

I've seen alot of SLS and can safely say that the condition your leuc is experience is most likely not SLS. If it were SLS the frog would most likely have never made it to adulthood (which you say the frogs were mature when you bought them). I have never seen a case where SLS causes a frogs arm to go straight forward yet still appear normal. The limb on your frog looks perfectly fine aside from the position it is held. I am not a vet so can't really give you a proper diagnosis but I'm leaning more towards some sort of neurologic trauma or something along this line. I have heard of others frogs doing this and most have recovered on their own over time. Hope this helps.

-Bill J.


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

A few years back someone brought some Luecs to us that suffered from a calcium deficiency. I simply can’t remember what they looked like though and what made us think that (been trying to think of it since this thread first started). I do remember when we asked the person if he was dusting their food he said that he didn’t know they needed supplements. 

Unfortunately we didn’t take any pictures. All I can remember is that they couldn’t hold themselves up. Anyway, we started using the supplements every day with them and over the course of a few months they got better. They were eventually well enough to be given to someone to care for them (not 100% but eating well and not having any mobility issues – basically as good as I thought they’d get). 

Last I heard they were doing fine. So if it’s a calcium deficiency there is hope that it will be better if given a little bit of TLC. I would keep him separate though and in a terrarium that you can keep an eye on the little guy…….


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## froglady (Feb 21, 2004)

khoff said:


> It was mentioned before that frogs CAN live a year with SLS but this isn't very common.


Your right. I started thinking about this more last night and the frog I mentioned above only had one spindly leg not two. I don't think I've ever seen one live very long with two spindley legs.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2004)

froglady said:


> khoff said:
> 
> 
> > It was mentioned before that frogs CAN live a year with SLS but this isn't very common.
> ...


I had a vent froglet that had one leg that was showing signs of SLS. I nursed the little guy for 7 months or so before he finally passed on. He would eat springtails and flies if they were withing strike range but couldn't get around much. This was my first experience with SLS and I just couldn't put him down. In the end, it was much harder on me to have him suffer for 7 months rather than be euthanized at first sign. 

-Bill J.


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Well thanks for all of the thoughts everyone. I think that I will just keep an eye on him and hopefully he will keep eating good. I'll keep everyone updated. On a little happier note, my leuc eggs are developing!!!  They all have tiny little black tads starting. I'm very excited about that!! Thanks again everyone.

-Shelley


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