# Thumbnails and relative boldness questions... (new ?s)



## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i'm looking into getting my first thumbnails in a couple of months. i'm curious what you guys have to say about difference species boldness compared to each other. of course people could have different experiences depending on setups, so the best examples would be from people who have had different kinds of thumbnails in similar setups to compare. please state what kind of setup you have too.

two that i'm considering are vents and intermedius. i've heard some people say vents are very bold, some say very skittish and shy. price and number of frogs to be purchased also need to be considered. for example i could get 4 intermedius for 300 (if i can get them for 75 a piece which is pretty low but i've seen it), or i could get 5 vents for only 275 (at 55 a piece which is pretty common). i think 5 would be my limit because my tank is only 11.5 gallons. so even though some people say intermedius might be a little more bold, considering i could have one additional vent for less money, which species would i see out and about more?

so what do you guys have to say about either the topic in general or in my specific case. any suggestions, comments or whatever would be appreciated. thanks.

EDIT: new questions at the bottom of this page


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

Okay. Real quick, I'm eating...

There is a sticky in this forum about good beginner thumbnails. Skim through that and see what you think.

Personally, I wouldn't put 5 anything in a 11.5 gal viv. Thats kinda tiny in my opinion. 3 max.

Have fun! Sorry my reply is so short, but I'm hungry. 8)


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

I don't have intermedius, but I've kept vents and standard imi's in similar setups. I can say my imi's are MUCH bolder. I'd go for the intermedius in a second.

As a seperate issue, have you read all the tank size threads? I don't want to start up that debate again, but suggest you consider it carefully.

Finally, the frog you like the looks of better is important measure. Obviously can't give advice on that one.

HTH.

Edit: Frogtofall beat me to it.

-Solly


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i have read over the sticky for good beginner thumbnails. it pretty much just talks about vents and imis, and most of the thread actually talks about the term 'thumbnail' technically means. it doesn't really mention species boldness. i've also read that intermedius are good for beginners, but they arn't really mentioned in there either.

no i haven't read any threads about thumbnail tank sizes. i've talked to a local breeder and they keep their vents in groups of 6 in 10 gallon tanks. this is what i based the 5 in an 11.5 gallon from. perhaps i should keep 4 max? i'm nervous to get just 3 because one just becomes an extra wheel. also i have bad luck w/sex ratios. i've had 5 leucs, so far 4 of them male! i pray the last one is actually a female.

i'm searching for more threads on these subjects and i'll ask anymore specific questions if i have any. otherwise any additional feedback, such as relative boldness with different species would be great. thanks.


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## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

For practical purposes regarding boldness etc, I think imi's and intermedius can be considered the same.

-Solly


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Intermedius are the boldest thumb I have and they are almost always out. Other say the same thing about vents and imitators but in my case it was intermedius. I have seen some bold vents and imitators as well, but mine are still a little shy.

Vents are a good choice for a starter thumb just due to cost.


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## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

According to Patrick at Saurian enterprises a group of four or five in a 10 gallon is likely to only be a pair at the end of two years. Take a look at http://www.saurian.net/htm/info_thumbnailcare.htm 
He does say that there may be merit to over crowding IE 7 to 10 frogs in a 20 gallon, as it is difficult for the frogs to set up territories. He goes on to say that this is an expensive experiment.


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## Lukeomelas (Mar 15, 2005)

I would suggest the intermedius, mine seem to be much more bold then my vents. Plus, they are a lot more fun to watch. I had to break up a 2.2 group of intermedius into separate pairs after the two females kept kicking the crap out of each other. It was like smack down all day long. I have now have each pair in their own 16" cube. 

I have 5 vents in the same kind of tank and they never have a problem. If you want a large group go with vents.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

i'm not necessarily looking for a large group, but i would like to have at least one pair mate. that said, it's usually easiest to do with a group. if i just buy 2 or 3 intermedius, especially with them being pretty male heavy, my chances aren't very good. though with the responces given so far, i think they're definately more bold than vent and i think i'd be happier with them, as long as i get a mating pair. i wonder what the best way to get a pair is. buying them outright is expensive, but buying a small group could mean more tanks if they don't get along, or all males and have to try and find a female which can be difficult and expensive. hmm...


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

If you've got the money, buy 3 intermedius. Your chances will be pretty good that you get a pair. At least with my imis I did. If you don't want to spend the money on intermedius, get imitators. They are the same frog, just a bit cheaper and just as bold and fun. I'm glad I got them both!


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

hehe think so? just to explain my luck... leucs run female heavy. i've had five. four of them i've seen call. no eggs yet, so the last one is unknown. now, the intermedius run male heavy. i'll be lucky if i get one female out of every ten i buy :lol:


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## Frogtofall (Feb 16, 2006)

You can always hold on to them and trade for the opposite sex later.


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

does anybody know how intermedius inparticular do in groups? i read on surian that with most thumbnails in the imitator group can have fairly agressive females, but it seems like it depends on the specific frogs. anybody have experience with intermedius in small groups? if i bought a group of three would they not get along if i ended up with 2 females?


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## themann42 (Apr 12, 2005)

so i've been looking around at prices of intermedius and there's quite a variety in price range. i've found two sites that sell them for $75, and a couple other that sell them for $100 and $125. what causes such a huge range? in the pictures, some of the frogs are solid orange and black, some have some yellow, and some have pale orange almost white legs. would this have anything to do with it? none of them have special names so i assume they're just standard intermedius. it seems odd because most of the frogs i see are within about $10 of each other on different sites, not $50!

also if anybody has information about my last post that'd be great too. thanks guys.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

themann42 said:


> so i've been looking around at prices of intermedius and there's quite a variety in price range. i've found two sites that sell them for $75, and a couple other that sell them for $100 and $125. what causes such a huge range? in the pictures, some of the frogs are solid orange and black, some have some yellow, and some have pale orange almost white legs. would this have anything to do with it? none of them have special names so i assume they're just standard intermedius. it seems odd because most of the frogs i see are within about $10 of each other on different sites, not $50.


This is getting off topic, see my comment on this issue here:
http://www.dendroboard.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 432#108432


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

> does anybody know how intermedius inparticular do in groups? i read on surian that with most thumbnails in the imitator group can have fairly agressive females, but it seems like it depends on the specific frogs. anybody have experience with intermedius in small groups? if i bought a group of three would they not get along if i ended up with 2 females?


I've kept a group of 3 adult unproven Intermedius females in the same tank since they were all about 4 months old, and never witnessed any agression. They each staked out a brom and pretty much kept to themselves until feeding time.


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