# Hamburg Dec 6th vs All-MD Dec 20th?



## carola1155

Anyone going to be there or know of anything good that might be there? I'm trying to decide which show I want to go to... The Hamburg show or the All Maryland one, as they are about the same distance from me.

Which would you recommend?
I'm trying to pick up some new darts as a christmas present to myself


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## SMenigoz

Having gone to both shows at least twice, I'd suggest you go to the Hamburg show for more dart frog choices.
Scott


carola1155 said:


> Anyone going to be there or know of anything good that might be there? I'm trying to decide which show I want to go to... The Hamburg show or the All Maryland one, as they are about the same distance from me.
> Which would you recommend?
> I'm trying to pick up some new darts as a christmas present to myself


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## sounddrive

im tempted to go i got a few things to trade if anyone is interest i can make sure i go.


;
1.1 prov campana auratus
2.1 orange galacts
1.0 reticulatus
0.1 gl lamasi
1.0 orange amazonicus
0.0.2 bl vents
prob 0.1 red basti

cash or trade

looking for
female retic
male gl lamasi
female amazonicus
female orange lamasi
any pum or thumb pairs


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## Philsuma

I'll be going...leaving from HBG if anyone wants to carpool....

Hamburg is much better than that All Maryland show...without a doubt.


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## melas

I know Dartsami will be there as well. Should be a decent representation of dart frogs for a reptile show. It's always cool to see all of the venomous stuff too. . . though a little terrifying seeing the types of people carrying them out . . .yipes!


Phil, I think I'm going if you wanted to carpool again!


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## Philsuma

Sure Matt....we can carpool.


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## karl47

This will be the fourth time I make the 2 hour trip to Hamburg and it is well worth the time and gas. I've also made pre-arrangements to by two Luecs from a very reliable vendor there; Keith Tanis (aka "Frogs-n-Things") has sold me half the frogs I own (16) and most of my FFF & springtails supplies, too. He's always cut me a good deal when I buy in qauntity and every frog was a keeper.
See Ya'll there,
Karl


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## melas

Karl,

If you'd like, you could meet me at the Newville Park & Ride on 81. I could take you to meet up with Philsuma (Phil) in Mechanicsburg. . .


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## karl47

Melas,
That would be great! I'll be there at about 9:00 AM in 2002, Yellow, Mitsubishi Lancer (unless you want to make it earlier?).
See Ya'll then,
Karl




melas said:


> Karl,
> 
> If you'd like, you could meet me at the Newville Park & Ride on 81. I could take you to meet up with Philsuma (Phil) in Mechanicsburg. . .


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## melas

karl47 said:


> Melas,
> I'll be there at about 9:00 AM ...(unless you want to make it earlier?).


Phil?? I'm up for leaving whenever. I have nothing else going on that day.


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## Ed

I'll be there and if you check the classifieds out you can see another breeder who will be vending there (not me). 
If I can find where I put it, I'll be wearing a baseball cap with a yin/yang symbol on it with hellbenders as the dots inside the yin/yang symbol. 

Ed


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## melas

Oh very cool! So you are not vending then? PS-the hat sounds really cool as well! haha!


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## flyangler18

I'd like to get up there, if only to catch up with Ed and Mike Shrom- as well as meet some DBers I haven't yet met. We'll see how the schedule shakes out this week.


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## Philsuma

Hi Karl,

We talked before.....if you meet Matt at the Newville park and ride, then meet me at the Mechanicsburg park and ride, we can all make the trip a little less $$$.

The show opens @ 0900 and it takes 45 mins from the Mechanicsburg exit. Could we push up the time by say..1/2 hour to beat the rush a little? Would that be cool?

We still have still have a extra seat for someone or two if we take my SUV.

BTW Karl...I have, like, a dozen Leucs and tads....sniff...sniff


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## Philsuma

Jason,

We have room....It would be cool to meet. Do you still have the Spanish ribbed Newts? Mike Shrom is always there. Last show he had over a dozen different species and lots of isopods.

Phil
[email protected]


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## flyangler18

Hey Phil,

The Pleurodeles are now in my wife's school- and being cared for by one of the science teachers. Mike is regularly producing them, though.

Jason


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## DF20

I will be going as well...

i am looking for female mancreek/almriante
male blue leg vent
female cayo de agua

have to trade or sell

0.0.2 variablis
0.0.2 leuc
1.1 cayo de agua
0.0.2 adult mancreek/almriante


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## Philsuma

Wow...entire central PA is checking in!

Lets not forget Steve started the thread. He has a great pum / thumb collection. Hope he goes.

We may need to mapquest all the waypoints...lol


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## Adven2er

I'll be going to the Hamburg show. I got my first frogs there in October. I bought four Leucs. Two are from Keith Tanis and they are doing very well. I'm thinking about picking up one more Leuc to bring my group up to five. Remember to bring your patience as it will probably be very crowded.


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## melas

It ALWAYS is! At least it isn't going to be 90 degrees out on saturday like it was a few times this summer! blah!


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## Philsuma

Adven2er said:


> I'll be going to the Hamburg show. I got my first frogs there in October. I bought four Leucs. Two are from Keith Tanis and they are doing very well. I'm thinking about picking up one more Leuc to bring my group up to five. Remember to bring your patience as it will probably be very crowded.


Rick,

Welcome. Hamburg is well known to us. We all put up with the double strollers, parents taking their kids to "the Hamburg Zoo", less than steller personal hygene. Did anyone else see the woman pushing her little fuzzy Chihuaha in the baby stroller last show?? What would happen if a large Retic..the Reptile not the Amphibian, got a hold of it?

What is amazing is that I have been going for over 8 years and its busier this time of year than ever, economy be damned!


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## DF20

im gonna set up a tent the night before ... black friday style


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## yours

I think I'm going to have to go! This sounds like FUN and will be worth the two hour drive! ))) If nothing but to intake the atmosphere and hobby craze.....anyone out there that does NOT have darts(yet) and is going like me? 



Alex


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## Philsuma

yours said:


> I think I'm going to have to go! This sounds like FUN and will be worth the two hour drive! ))) If nothing but to intake the atmosphere and hobby craze.....anyone out there that does NOT have darts(yet) and is going like me?


Check me if I'm wrong, but Joisey don't have any exotic/ reptile shows do dey?

Isn't NJ one of the most "restrictive" states for keeping/ purchasing animals and exotics?


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## yours

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/northeast/33774-new-jersey-permit.html

The thread in this category that I was speaking, to the "AWESOME-ness" of New Jersey, and their......rulings. Heh. (pssst...I think you're onto something there!)

I'm not one to know if there are/have-been shows in the state, as I've got a year under my belt for being in the hobby that is reptiles-and-amphibians.................but I have to be honest, the first show I went to was M.A.R.S in Maryland this past September, and it was very inspiringly cool!!!!  

So I can only imagine good things from this one as well!


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## melas

If you liked MARS you will absolutely be blown away by the number and variety of animals at Hamburg. They allow both wild caught and venomous animals. That attracts larger crowds but it also attracts some more shady dealers as well. I just hate seeing all the baby iguanas, nile and savannah monitors, burms, crocodillians, etc. You just know those are going home with someone who has absolutely no clue . . . anyway . . . we should all get some dendroboard t-shirts with our screen names on them or something so when we go to these things we can instantly recognize each other. . . haha!


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## Ed

yours said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/northeast/33774-new-jersey-permit.html
> 
> The thread in this category that I was speaking, to the "AWESOME-ness" of New Jersey, and their......rulings. Heh. (pssst...I think you're onto something there!)
> 
> I'm not one to know if there are/have-been shows in the state, as I've got a year under my belt for being in the hobby that is reptiles-and-amphibians.................but I have to be honest, the first show I went to was M.A.R.S in Maryland this past September, and it was very inspiringly cool!!!!
> 
> So I can only imagine good things from this one as well!


Actually if you check out PA's new regs, you might think Jersey was quite permissive... 

There have been shows in the past but not recently (see below). 
The reason there aren't shows in Jersey anymore is because the state requires each vendor to have a vendor's permit while PA will allow the show to aquire a vendor's permit and let all of the vendors sell under that permit.

Ed


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## melas

Ed said:


> Actually if you check out PA's new regs, you might think Jersey was quite permissive...


Which new regulations are you referring to Ed?


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## Ed

Section 79 of the PAF&B regulations.. If in the course of a year you sell more than a $1000 in animals you need a propegation permit from PAF&B. In addition you are not allowed to propegate species that are not on thier approved list and cannot propegate any species unless you have a closed system to prevent escape or release into the wild. 

The definition of a hobbyist is transacting a value in sales, trade, etc of less than a $1000 a year... 

Ed


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## karl47

Phil,
Yeah, no problem with 1/2 hour or even earlier if you want and if Matt is OK with it. We could even shoot for a 9:00 arrival at Hamburg since I need to be home by early afternoon so I can rest up for 3rd shift at 11:30 PM.

My apologies for the Leucs thing, but I'm so used to doing business with Keith that he's my automatic "go-to-guy" when I need a frog because he always gives me a discount on bulk purchases. I promise to ask you the next time I need another frog before I go elsewhere, OK?

Hey Rick,
Where's North Eastern PA? I was raised 20 miles N.E. of Scranton until 1966 when the Army drafted me for Viet Nam and I never (hardly ever) went back. Just curious.



Philsuma said:


> Hi Karl,
> 
> We talked before.....if you meet Matt at the Newville park and ride, then meet me at the Mechanicsburg park and ride, we can all make the trip a little less $$$.
> 
> The show opens @ 0900 and it takes 45 mins from the Mechanicsburg exit. Could we push up the time by say..1/2 hour to beat the rush a little? Would that be cool?
> 
> We still have still have a extra seat for someone or two if we take my SUV.
> 
> BTW Karl...I have, like, a dozen Leucs and tads....sniff...sniff


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## Adven2er

Hi Karl,

I live in Forty Fort PA. (close to Wilkes-Barre) My home town is Pottstown PA.


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## carola1155

Hey guys, what is the selection like on viv supplies, feeder insects etc? do vendors usually have anything good? I imagine theres plenty of the typical stuff like exo-terra stuff and such... but what about some stuff like some sphagnum, broms, springtails... etc

thanks!


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## melas

Every time I go there I always think to myself if ONLY I knew more about plants I would make a killing here! There are a few people with plants from Lowes . . . I haven't seen anyone selling broms or any epiphytes really. Most of the PDF dealers also have FF cultures. I think Mike Shrom usually has spring tail cultures etc. Black Jungle used to attend the show and they of course had tons of sweet plants but I talked to Richard last time they were there and he said it just wasn't paying for them to go to that show. I would say that MARS is better for plants ONLY because Black Jungle goes . . . 

*Hey Karl! CALL ME!!*


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## yours

Do you guys think there will be any of the LARGER Exo Terra tanks there? I'm hoping so and for a good deal!  Since most of these bigger ones are "pick up only" it's very difficult to try and get my hands on one.....


Alex


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## boogsawaste

That sucks that black jungle isn't going to be attending anymore. I bought some epiphytes off of them there in the past. It also sucks that I have to work and can't make it out to the show  It's pretty close to me.


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## Philsuma

Alex,

I have seen the "big" exo tanks at every show....usually near the front right side as you go in....


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## melas

yours said:


> Do you guys think there will be any of the LARGER Exo Terra tanks there?


I HAVE seen them there in the past - I believe they were at the MAX Pet stand . . . The are definitely impressive!


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## melas

I'm waiting in line at the show now with philsuma . . . COLD!


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## carola1155

haha... see anything good yet?


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## Ed

I'll be at the Have de Grace show for at least a little while. I need to get some feeders. 

Ed


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## Ed

Well it was nice at Have de Grace and I hung around chatting longer than I probably should have. 

There were some mint terriblis for $50/froglet.. as well as some Green Sips, imitator, leucomelas and azureus. 

Other interesting items were Lygodactylus williamsi, several different types of chameleons (including Fisher's which I hadn't seen in a while), dubia day geckos (a whole cage full), a Pachymedusa dachnicolor, a good selection of newts and salamanders.... 
It had a real nice variety for being such a small show. 

Ed


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## boogsawaste

I was only at the Have de Grace show once a long time ago. Sounds like there was a good selection there though. I might have to take a road trip down to that one again sometime.


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## yours

Didn't see any Phelsuma klemmeri  Saw some P. gold dust though....

It was a LOT OF FUN, meeting ED and talking w/ him and Randy there! Ed's laugh is contagious, honestly!! Hehe 

And boy...i just MIGHT have picked up my FIRST dart frogs from Randy! TWO leucs and TWO imitators!!!(i couldn't resist them when i saw them!)

Very cool show! Yes, the MINT TERRIBLIS were also awesome!! I can't believe how cool they look in person!! MAX PET retail was there again as well....

Besides Randy, and the dude that had the Terriblis...really wasn't much DART FROG stuff there.........I also bought a cool day calendar for '09 on FROGS!  Oh, and that $165.00 book on darts was still there 

Nice meeting you again ED and thanks again RANDY!!!!   


Alex


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## Ed

It was fun talking to you guys as well. I'm the only keeper at work that is really in amphibians so I don't get much chance to talk shop. 

Ed


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## Philsuma

Sorry I couldn't make the show guys. $20.00 gas and the 2 hour trip made my decision for me. 

Not to bust on the show, but it is kinda wierd that a Baltimore (near) show only draws TWO frog vendors...and one newt vendor.

I guess Hamburg is the show to beat. @ 10 frog vendors everytime.

Glad to see that frog book is now $5.00 more than last time I saw it - $165.00

It went DOWN on Amazon for that UK dealer to $124.00 last time I looked!! and only $4.00 shipping!

The was a last minute attempt to get some DB'ers together at a Baltimore residence but I think it was a little too late and bad end of year timing.


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## jubjub47

Two frog vendors down here would be a great show for us. Cindy with Vivarium Concepts is the only true frog vendor at our shows. There is the random retf's and such at a few tables, but they never look very good.


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## yours

Was definitely looking for you Phil 

I would like to own that book someday, seems like a plethora of handy information there! So much more prioritizing w/ the money though right now..

Personally, I think ED should have a "shin-dig" at his place....couldn't get much better than that!!! Haha 

I remember there were LOTS of vendors at the MARS show in Maryland in September....

There was also a dude selling some P. tomopterna and P. hypochondrialis and redeyes, probably all of Mike Novy's stock....

Those electric blue L. williamsi were awesome though, first time I saw them....and was impressed..............not many CB of those guys I take it?

I'm having a blast meeting a lot of you guys in person though, in all seriousness....my next stop might be the WHITE PLAINS convention, if I feel like heading to NY and all....

by the way, Phil: do you remember in HAMBURG that vendor that sold those custom front/top-opening glass tanks? Do you remember their name by any chance? I'd like to get ahold of them, I really liked some of their vertical 10 gallon top opening ones!


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## Philsuma

Someone posted a review of the White Plains show a little while back.

Only 2-3 frog vendors there as well.....but........they happen to be Black Jungle which kinda makes up for it. No need to go any further north than Hamburg Alex.

Yeah, ED....we should have a meet -day at the zoo......

Those _williamsi_ are all the rage lately. Mainland blue day geckos. They are imported from Tanzania. I like how almost every new species comes in at a roughly $100.00 price tage and then drops from there. Wait a year and you'll be able to get them for $19.95 each, or free off the side of a certain warehouse in Hollywood Florida.


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## dartsami

Ed and Alex-
Thanks for making the show interesting for me. I picked up several tips from ED, which was great.

BTW I came home with a pair of the Lygodactylus williamsi. They are incredible!

Alex, any chance you can post a pic?


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## Ed

Philsuma said:


> Someone posted a review of the White Plains show a little while back.
> 
> Only 2-3 frog vendors there as well.....but........they happen to be Black Jungle which kinda makes up for it. No need to go any further north than Hamburg Alex.
> 
> Yeah, ED....we should have a meet -day at the zoo......
> 
> Those _williamsi_ are all the rage lately. Mainland blue day geckos. They are imported from Tanzania. I like how almost every new species comes in at a roughly $100.00 price tage and then drops from there. Wait a year and you'll be able to get them for $19.95 each, or free off the side of a certain warehouse in Hollywood Florida.


IF people want a behind the scenes tour at the Philly Zoo reptile House, it can be arranged. It needs to be small groups (no larger than 6 or so is probably best) and preferably no kids under 8 or so (as there are a lot things to get your hands into..) 
Most Sundays, Tuesdays, and some Wed are best for me. Just don't expect to see anything really outrageous right now. The previous curator really cut back on the amphibian collection but we are currently improving it. Just let me know a couple of weeks ahead of time that you plan to come by so I can okay it with the boss and make sure we aren't going to be short staffed. 

Its possible those L. williamsi may be extinct in the wild in a year or two. They come from a really small area and are being heavily exploited for the pet trade here and if I remember correctly Europe. 

Ed


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## yours

Well, I may still want one of those chocolate leucs from Black Jungle, not sure though 

pics inc, of Randy, Ed, one of the imitators i picked up(but wasn't sure at the time), one of the mint terribilis, and the cool L. williamsi!(male+female)


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## melas

yours said:


> by the way, Phil: do you remember in HAMBURG that vendor that sold those custom front/top-opening glass tanks? Do you remember their name by any chance? I'd like to get ahold of them, I really liked some of their vertical 10 gallon top opening ones!


I forget the name of the vendor selling these awesome enclosures but when I talked to them at the previous Hamburg show the told me that they are for pick up only at the Hamburg shows. The do not have a website nor do they ship the tanks. I can't remember where exactly they are out of but I do remember that it was NOT local to the Hamburg PA. So there you go . . . for what it's worth. They are REALLY nice though!


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## Philsuma

melas said:


> I forget the name of the vendor selling these awesome enclosures but when I talked to them at the previous Hamburg show the told me that they are for pick up only at the Hamburg shows. The do not have a website nor do they ship the tanks. I can't remember where exactly they are out of but I do remember that it was NOT local to the Hamburg PA. So there you go . . . for what it's worth. They are REALLY nice though!



The vendor was in the middle of the floor if i remember. They were thin walled glass, marketed as Spider or Arachnid tanks I think even though some were huge. Funny, I don't remember them being front opening...only top opening, that's why I discounted them for frog husbandry.But I could be wrong. the guy did say that "although he was not the builder", shows were the only way you could buy them. Exos are better for our hobby.

Finally! Photographic proof of ED.....is that a DB first pic??


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## melas

Oh they were definitely front opening. The ones you were looking at on the end (the divided tanks I believe) were top opening only. The majority had sliding glass fronts. I think these would actually make amazing terrariums. I was seriously considering buying one last time.


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## Ed

I think I was in some other photos before.. probably NAAC or IAD. 

The cages are "Marty Made" and this is the guys contact number His name is Ron Billingsley and you can call him at 317-690-1614. He was at the last Hamburg show but I didn't stop to get a new card since I was pressed for time. 

His cages are pretty light and when I spoke to him, he didn't think they could be drilled. 
If you want to drill the cages or have them come drilled you should check out glasscages.com. 

Ed


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## Philsuma

melas said:


> Oh they were definitely front opening. The ones you were looking at on the end (the divided tanks I believe) were top opening only. The majority had sliding glass fronts. I think these would actually make amazing terrariums. I was seriously considering buying one last time.


My mistake...you are correct sir. There were indeed some cool sliding door and multi / stackable units.


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## yours

I was thinking that some of the verticals would be perfect for Phelsuma klemmeri!

I wonder if they'll be at the White Plains convention next month....I think glasscages.com will be there...

I've got the reptile show fever going on!!!! 

I still can't believe you got those dwarf geckos Randy!! That's so awesome...


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## UmbraSprite

Hah...

Randy...haven't seen you in too long man.

Still can't resist a good looking reptile I see. You have any time off this week? Would be cool for you to stop down...may have some frogs for you. (don't tell Tara!)

Chris


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## carola1155

Ed said:


> IF people want a behind the scenes tour at the Philly Zoo reptile House, it can be arranged. It needs to be small groups (no larger than 6 or so is probably best) and preferably no kids under 8 or so (as there are a lot things to get your hands into..)
> Most Sundays, Tuesdays, and some Wed are best for me. Just don't expect to see anything really outrageous right now. The previous curator really cut back on the amphibian collection but we are currently improving it. Just let me know a couple of weeks ahead of time that you plan to come by so I can okay it with the boss and make sure we aren't going to be short staffed.
> 
> 
> Ed


You can definitely count me in if this happens again, I was really bummed when I blew out my shoulder and ended up in the ER the last time instead of being there


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## melas

Ditto! (except for the shoulder part - lol)


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