# Red eyed tree frog



## Mby4 (Apr 26, 2021)

*is this color norm? We are new to the frog owning community and don't want to mess anything up! He's been with us for 10 days now and has been an array of colors. We purchased 4 all together and have lost 2. We have done everything we were told. The 2 that we lost were dark and spotted from the get go.. and both died on day 2 of getting them home.. please help. All info is appreciated. These are my daughter's first frogs and we need all the help we can get. Thank you in advance. *


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Please cut and paste this, and answer ALL the questions in detail, and post it as a reply to this thread.









Read before posting! Fill this out to help troubleshoot...


Answer all these questions as best you can (cut and paste -- please don't quote because that makes it hard to read the responses): 1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? Were they WC (wild collected) or CB (captive bred)? 2. What are your...




www.dendroboard.com


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

A brief addendum about the specific photo there. Was that taken in the daytime or at night?

Did someone put the frog in the water, effort to aid him or did you just find him just like that.?

Theres no wrong answer only accurate as it can help us get an idea of how far along we are here.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The way we serve you best isnt in diagnostics, but to help with any corrective husbandry and design issues, and ease further harm in stabilizing the ailing frog.

The other most important purpose is to help prepare the history for your vet visit.


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## Mby4 (Apr 26, 2021)

Kmc said:


> A brief addendum about the specific photo there. Was that taken in the daytime or at night?
> 
> Did someone put the frog in the water, effort to aid him or did you just find him just like that.?
> 
> Theres no wrong answer only accurate as it can help us get an idea of how far along we are here.


This was first thing in the morning this morning he is always in and out of the water since we have gotten him so I didn't think it was abnormal for him to be there and his color has since changed as he has climbed up higher on a branch


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

K. So fill out the above as Socrates Monalogue put up and please share if you are using heat bulbs and what they are.


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## Mby4 (Apr 26, 2021)

1. What species ? How long have you had the frog(s) and where did you acquire them ? 
Green-eyed tree frogs we purchased the first two on April 19th from Daryl's pet store in redlands, ca, then on April 20th one of the two passed. We then waited until Friday the 23rd ( to see how the surviving froggies was going to do, we thought elevation could be a factor) and went to get the remaining two from the same store. We noticed one of the second set was a dark green with light spots just like the first one that passed and ask the gal that works there if that was a possible issue with bacteria or some type of infection? She said that it was because the frog was "pissed" because she had squirted him off with water because he had soil on him. The next day on April 24th that same frog the dark one with white spots passed away. Savannah what's our

2. What are your temperatures (day and night - highs and lows) and how do you measure those temperatures? Does the vivarium have any supplemental heating, and if so, what type? 
Our temperatures have been between 65 and 80 depending on time of day we have been experiencing some colder weathers here in the mountain so we have been running our heater as much as possible to keep up the temp. We also run a humidifier and try to keep the environment at around 75 to 85% humidity however at some points it drops a little lower and at some points a little higher. We run a humidifier in the room and as well we have two different lamps up on top of the mesh lid both UVB one is a blue we do not use them both at the same time unless we are trying to get the temp up quickly for a brief period Of time.

3. What lighting is on the enclosure (brand, type, wattage) and does the lighting add heat to the vivarium? I will have toget back to you on wattage... It was bundled with the terrarium. Is the humidity

4. What is the Humidity like (percentage or guesstimate)? What type of water are you using? What is your misting procedure (automated or hand mister, how long and how often)?65-90 varies we tey and keep it around 75-80

5. Describe your tank/enclosure and its lid or top, and give details about the ventilation (how many vents, where are they positioned, how large are they).
there is a top vent and a front door opening. 
I believe the terrarium is an 18x24? Don't quote me on that I believe that's incorrect my daughter is telling me the info. It is a tall one though.
.

6. What kind of food are you providing, how much and are you dusting it? What superfine powdered supplements (brand and exact product name) are you using and are they fresh (i.e. how long has the container been open, and how is it stored)?
My daughter has been feeding them once a day calcium dusted crickets and we feed them the little orange food/watercubes

7. Any other animals in the enclosure currently or recently? Tankmates / other frogs ?
Currently two of the four little red eyes are still surviving and seem to be doing pretty well besides the color changing but I am not sure if that is just the normal part.
8. Any type of behavior you would consider 'odd' ? The frog in this photo seems to like being lower in the terrarium more often but he periodically does crawl up and we can find him higher.

9. Have you handled or touched the frogs recently ? Any cleansers, paint, perfumes, bug sprays etc near the tank ?
Only once to put the frog a little higher because the pet store suggested that.
10. Take pictures of EVERYTHING -- the frogs, the enclosure, the vents. Take numerous pics of everything - that will be of great help.


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## Mby4 (Apr 26, 2021)




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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

So it can be really derailing to have someone direct you on a completely different trajectory than what youve been told to do, and whether or not your animals have a systemic problem the set up that you have looks and sounds like a lot of disparity happening within a day/night.

These guys live in leafy canopy, changes in temp are gentled by leafy layers and self location. 

Personally i have found that setting them up with 2 uth mats cornered has had the best outcome esp w new ppl, besides having the env in a room that has a steady ambient of low to mid 70s so that just the modest wattage of the lighting is enough to adequately, gently warm the environments.

The gestalt of the env and gear hits a too harsh chord. 

But you have not described the type or wattage lights or cage dimensions. It looks perhaps 18"? 
No matter what I think it too harsh.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

These guys are the epitome of nocturnal. Basically its like a lovely shade green piece of gum stuck on the glass pane - all day, every day. 

They cant be handled, they are never awake when a kid is, customarily. Most herptiles including most frogs, are like having a science project that lasts 20 years.

If you and your family are going to be herp owners, the best advice I have is to set up the environment prior to putting the animal in, you set it up with everything running As If the animal were in the environment. You check your temps, make adjustments, take your readings at the warmest and coolest times in house. Any shop that sends clients home with a "kit" and the animal in a deli cup isnt doing it the best way.


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## Mby4 (Apr 26, 2021)

Kmc said:


> So it can be really derailing to have someone direct you on a completely different trajectory than what youve been told to do, and whether or not your animals have a systemic problem the set up that you have looks and sounds like a lot of disparity happening within a day/night.
> 
> These guys live in leafy canopy, changes in temp are gentled by leafy layers and self location.
> 
> ...


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## Mby4 (Apr 26, 2021)

Ok so one light is a blue 60 w? Bulb I believe the other uvb is 13w.. we have also just purchased the uth to aid in the heating. Today since my earliest post, we have kept the temp around 70 and humidity 75 -80%. We are misting morning and night. Again, we are going with what we were told and notfwwling confident with the info they gave us due to the loss of the first two. Hence the reason I'm reaching out on here. To get to the bottom of my question in the first place, is the drastic change in colors for this guy normal? He often changes from light/bright green to darker shades to even a lighter blue? Suggestions and answers are appreciated.


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## Mby4 (Apr 26, 2021)

(not feeling) sorry for typo


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Like most frogs there are shifts of color, shade and pattern due to cells in the skin.

But that is not the greatest concern here. If there was no research done prior to acquiring the frog, you cant really put all the responsibility on the store, since it is much different than a product that will not malfunction if you get this light, and that light, and pour this stuff on the bottom. 

The frog in the photo looks mottled, stressed and unsound. It may be sick/dehydrated. 

It still has decent flesh value and looks like it had been eating.

Try to keep the temperature from spiking and dropping. 

Someone else will chime in.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Uth goes on wall not under tank. Mat edge to glass edge with foliage zone near it. Please do something to mitigate the amount of ground coconut shell getting stuck on the poor frog. Its a stressor. It would be so nice if that could be removed from his existence.


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

The drastic color changes may being caused by disparities in temperature and stress reducing cover. Normally they sleep on the undersides of leaves. My babies and adults but babies and juveniles especially, would sometimes place themselves diurnally in places where they would receive partial uvb contact where the temp was mild.

It is important for animals not to have to bodily 'choose' between Cover and Temp. Physiologically they are drawn to temps compatible with metabolic processes, and it should be aligned with areas that are compatible with their need for a feeling of safety.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

Mby4 said:


> the little orange food/watercubes


While I'm not claiming that this has anything to do with your current problems, I'd strongly recommend not using these. They can and do get stuck on crickets unknowingly, and can and do kill the frog when eaten (there was a recent thread in which this happened). Carrots, oranges, and other fresh fruits and veggies are good water sources for crickets, and oat bran or bran flakes are an acceptable staple food. 

Also, and this doesn't help your current situation (sorry), general pet shops are not knowledgeable caretakers of exotic animals, and because of this fact are not good sources for them. No blame, I'm just mentioning this for your future purchases, and for other folks who are reading this.

I agree that more and better opportunity for the frogs to choose microhabitats with a range of environmental parameter options is a bare necessity. Try to provide lots of traversable surfaces throughout the viv, with a range of moisture levels (it is usually moister against the back wall, where there is less ventilation -- though more on this below), a heat gradient, areas of different lighting levels in many places in the viv. In short, more and more varied cover from the ground to the top.

On moisture levels -- that viv doesn't vent well, as the only venting is on the top (better to have the top screen and also a vent down low, under the door or at the floor, so air can move through the whole viv instead of just at the top). There's no way I'd recommend to remedy this at this point in the project, but just be aware of the limitations of that model of viv as you get advice. 

You didn't mention (that I could find) that you mist the viv daily. When and how and how much and with what kind of water do you mist?


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Just a note here that Flukers UTH is a good product that works well with dimmers, thermostats and in stand alone depending on temp needs.

There is no adhesive backing to commit placement. It is not good to pull off pads and re use them. Dissecting a pad - will reveal why. It can derange the cable wire in the envelope of the uth covering.

The best way to use them for warming most environments is using Two in diagonal or 'kitty corner' position. The option to just use one or the other is there but using 2 in a V or L relationship creates the most useful and predictable dynamic of temperature behavior. Creating a *p*referred *o*ptimum *t*emperature *z*one that graduates outward into the cooler ambient temperature body of the vivarium.

This format is as easy to exit as access for all animals but its especially useful for small, non radiant arboreals.

* edit to add that this method will not work with interior build vivs. The glass itself is critical component of its heating behavior.


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