# Phoenix Worms - New! 3/8" 150 count - Great for Darts



## dartfrogs (May 26, 2004)

*Phoenix worms *are another great food source for poison dart frogs as well as other small herps. It is a soft body grub that has a relatively high calcium content. An independent lab study shows that the Phoenix Worm has over 60 times the calcium content of mealworms. This worm can withstand high temperatures and should not be refrigerated. The Phoenix Worm is able to ship when it is too hot to send fruit flies. We currently offer them in size small (3/8" or 8mm) in a 150 count container. They can last for weeks at room temperature with little or no special care and do not grow as quickly as wax worms (they hold their size very well). They can be fed weekly or bi-weekly, along with crickets or other feeder insects, to add a varied diet of food for your pet. They are also great for feeding venus fly traps and other carnivorous plants!

Buy Now at Black Jungle Terrarium Supply by clicking here: http://www.blackjungle.com/Merchant...uct_Code=PW-S&Category_Code=F&Store_Code=BJTS


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## Darks!de (Nov 16, 2004)

Hey guys, got any info on culturing them?

Luke


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

These are the larva of the black soldier fly (Hermetia illucens) and are supposedly reared in a calcium enriched media. The larva supposedly accumulate calcium which is then deposited in the cortical of the pupa as a protective measure. 
They are supposed to have a different calcium to phosphorus ratio depending on the size with the size just before pupation having the highest level of Ca (1.5:1) which if accurate is within the recommended guidelines. 
I have not seen a published analysis of the maggots, so I do not have access to independent confirmation of the reported analysis for the maggots being sold for feeder use. But if it is similar to the enrichment of other invertebrates these levels will be dependent on the gut contents as well as the method of storage of the calcium in the insect. 

They should be easy to culture (but I'm not sure how easy it is on a small scale basis) as they feed on moist decaying organic matter (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract). (If anyone gets a copy of this paper I would appreciate a copy also). 

Here are some basic analysis on the prepupae http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cachel ... tent&hl=en 
The article indicates that the calcium content can vary depending on the substrate. 

Ed


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## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

If anyone buys these guys let us know how it goes.


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## dartfrogs (May 26, 2004)

It's going pretty good so far. Why do you ask?


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## AZDR_A (Mar 20, 2004)

I've used the extra small and the small,that we got at Frogday. All the frogs that ate them seemed to really enjoy them here.


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## _Enix_ (Jul 31, 2005)

i got some at a local event. the frogs loved them. the only down side that i can think of is that they dont wriggle and squirm very much after they hit the substrate.

i would get them again. they last a long time. i had them in their lil pre-packed cup for a little over a month. all i had to do was add a few drops of water as stated on the container.


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## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

Thanks, I guess i will have to try them.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Are these flies culturable by those with a few frogs?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

After having read the abstract for the article Ed posted... I doubt that they are culturable on a small scale. They needed considerable room for their "aerial courtship". With only a few frogs it just makes more sense to grab a couple containers every once and a while and feed them as treats.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Well, the article mentioned them using a 2 x 2 x 4 meter enclosure, so it might not be difficult to breed them with the aid of a 260 gallon Reptarium, depending on how much space they need.


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

After some looking around online, I found that you can buy these from Armstrong's Crickets for $3 a cup of 150 small or extra small. Only drawback is you have to buy them in bulk. The least you can order is 18 cups, and they do not come bulk packaged.

http://www.armstrongcrickets.com/

It might be worthwhile to buy a cup or two from Black Jungle to try them out and see if your frogs like them first, though.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2005)

Hey guys, just recently found this site, and it is GREAT! Been doing a lot of reading, getting caught up, etc. Will post more later.
But anyway, I just got my worms from vivarium concepts. Now that my frogs have gorged theirselves I think it is safe to say they like 'em! But vivarium concepts has a little better price if you just want to order a couple of cultures.
Peace out,
Kenny


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2005)

Anyone have a pic of what these things look like?? I've never heard of them before. Looked on a few of those sites but didn't see pics of them. THANKS


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## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

Here's a pic from a guy who bought some at the Daytona reptile show:


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2005)

wow....looks like they would work pretty well. My frogs love hydei maggots and im sure these would work also. Thanks for the pic


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## VTHokie (Jun 28, 2005)

how long can you keep them til the larve turn into moths?


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## KeroKero (Jun 13, 2004)

Just to clarify - these are not moth larvae like wax worms, but actually a type of fly - black soldier fly (Hermetia illucens).


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

Any ideas as to what would be the best stuff to try and gutload them with?


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