# Tinctorius froglet with hind leg issues



## Boa249 (Jan 2, 2016)

My first cobalt tinctorius just morphed, and it seems to be having issues working its back legs. I picked him up to check on him, since he was face-down in the moss, and he stuck his legs out rigidly as you can see in the picture. As a tadpole, I fed it Zoo Med aquatic frog and tadpole bites. Also, this is the first froglet produced by this breeding pair.

Is this some sort of calcium deficiency caused by poor food? Is there a potential issue because the parents are first-time breeders? What can I do for this little froglet?


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

What are you feeding/supplementing the parent frogs with? I wouldn't consider tadpole bites to be a complete diet to be used alone. Your picture won't load for me, but severely malformed froglets generally need to be euthanized.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

It's hard to tell from the picture. About the only time I've seen that is when frogs have gotten out and have dried out and they are dying. I'm not saying it's dying, just that's when I've seen that particular leg straight out thing.

It looks fairly well fed, and has good muscle mass on the legs. I feed my tinc and auratus tadpoles the zoo med aquatic frog and tadpole food. I haven't noticed a problem. You could supplement with a high quality flake food. 

How are you housing the metamorphs? I tend to keep my metamorphs in pretty simple setups: sphagnum moss lined plastic shoe boxes with some leave litter. and good humidity, with some plant clippings.

Do you by chance have any 2% calcium gluconate? you can use that to help him out for a few days and see if he improves. I get mine at Frogs n things.

good luck
mike

Good luck.


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## Boa249 (Jan 2, 2016)

Thanks for your reply. The froglet looks fine, except he doesn't seem to work his back legs correctly. There isn't any malformation that I can see. I will definitely add some high quality flakes to the tadpole diet. I've also seen a lot of positive info for HBH Frog and Tadpole Bites. Is this the superior food? I'll also place an order for the calcium gluconate.

The adult frogs eat mealworms with occasional rice flour beetle larva. Bean beetles are fed sparingly. Flies are dusted with calcium with D3 and Rep-Cal Herptivite. Food is provided daily.

I keep the morphing froglets in 16 oz plastic cups with a bit of tadpole tea. The cup is tilted to provide the froglet a place to climb out of the water. Once they're up out of the water and have almost absorbed the tail, I put them into a planted terrarium with plenty of moss and humidity. A flat, shallow water dish is provided so they can use as they please, without the risk of drowning.

Is there anything else I can do for this froglet right now? As long as he isn't getting worse, I want to give him his best possible chance to get better.


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## Boa249 (Jan 2, 2016)

Also, I just noticed I said "mealworms" in my previous post. I meant fruit flies...it's been a long morning .

I don't think any drying-out is happening. All of my tanks have a drain layer under the substrate which holds water and helps keep the humidity up. This is in addition to the moss and plants. This particular froglet is in a 12x12x12 Exo-terra with plastic over the top to hold in the humidity.

I fear this could be a dietary deficiency. I've raised E. anthonyi on the same diet without issue, but perhaps the tinctorius require a higher quality diet? Otherwise, I've considered that this may be a problem caused by the parents being first-time breeders.

Are there any other known causes for this froglet behavior?


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

If it's eating (which it might not be yet since it's a new metamorph) then the only other thing I think you could do is try that calcium gluconate. I use it with overly small froglets or ones that haven't been getting enough food (sometimes that happens if their is a shy one in a group and the others are not so shy). You're froglet setup sounds fine. I'm not an expert at all on frog ailments so I can't provide much insight. sorry I'm not more help.

mike


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## Boa249 (Jan 2, 2016)

I began treating this froglet with 2% calcium gluconate and amphibian ringer's soaks, but I'm not seeing any improvement. I've also noticed that, aside from his back legs, he seems to have issues with his front legs. He's completely unable to hold himself up. In fact, he doesn't seem to have any control of his front legs, and they lay at odd angles since he can't move them. When I give him soaks, I have to prop his head up to keep his nostrils above the water.

Is this SLS? I have two other tinctorius morphlings who appear to have the same affliction. I've replaced my supplements for the parents, and will be adding retinol in addition to the beta carotene they get from the Herptivite. I've also picked up some HBH Frog and Tadpole bites and some Omega One Super Color fish flakes to give the tads some extra variety.

I've continued treatment as best I can for now, but I'd like some opinions so I can make a decision about this guy


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## jknight (Jun 25, 2009)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-health-disease-treatment/76179-spindly-leg-syndrome.html

Great info in the Thread on the topic. I've been fortunate enough to never have had this issue, but It looks like SLS to me..


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

Boa249 said:


> Is this SLS? I have two other tinctorius morphlings who appear to have the same affliction. I've replaced my supplements for the parents, and will be adding retinol in addition to the beta carotene they get from the Herptivite. I've also picked up some HBH Frog and Tadpole bites and some Omega One Super Color fish flakes to give the tads some extra variety.
> 
> I've continued treatment as best I can for now, but I'd like some opinions so I can make a decision about this guy


These pics did load for me, and unfortunately it is SLS. The only options for this frog are slow starvation, or euthanizing. I've been keeping darts for a while, and this is my least favorite part (and it never really gets easier). Here is an article that Ed K. wrote some time back that might help: Caudata Culture Articles - Euthanasia, the Orajel method is typically easiest.


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## Boa249 (Jan 2, 2016)

I was pretty sure it was SLS, but I wanted a professional opinion before proceeding. It's a bit discouraging since this was my first tinctorius, but I'll improve things and try again. Thanks for your replies.


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## tardis101 (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm sorry, I didn't notice the front leg issue. I agree with the others it looks like SLS. I agree with Dane, it's terrible experience. Fortunately the SLS issue can be resolved with appropriate dusting of FFs with good supplements (I believe the consensus is to use the Rephashy supplements). I also use the Repashy superfly ff media. It can take a few months to resolve the deficiency in the adults, so you might want to try and prevent any breeding for a while. Otherwise you are likely to keep getting froglets with it. How did the others in this clutch do? 

Sorry your first froglet turned out this way. It's rough. 
Mike


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Just to reiterate from prior threads, the reason the "fix" has to start with the adults is that the adults provision the eggs with the nutrients. If there isn't enough vitamin A then the eggs are going to start out deficient in vitamin A. This means that it causes problems with limb bud formation, and kidney formation long before it even hatches from the egg. 

some comments 

Ed


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