# Begonia help, leaves dying



## RabidWombat (Aug 4, 2012)

I've got a few begonias, but only tried putting one in my viv. It was a Silver Jewel. Within the span of about 3 or 4 days it completely died.

I have learned that water on the leaves will kill it and I shouldn't mist it. That is probably what killed it. I realized this after searching the forum.


I've got a few other, smaller, Silver Jewels growing in a tabletop greenhouse. I've noticed on one of them that two leaves have died. One of the leaves was touching the side of the little greenhouse it's in. The other leaf appeared to be touching the rim of the pot the plant is in.

Is it typical of begonias to die if anything is touching them? If so, how do they manage in vivs with frogs jumping on them?

Thanks,
RW


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

They and some other plants seem to need time to adapt to your viv conditions, especially if they weren't grown in viv conditions and/or similar soils.

I bought 2 pavoninas...put one in a viv, dead in a week...just melted away. The other I set its pot in a viv and leaves would rapidly appear and melt away for a week or 2+...and now it seems to have stabilized and is doing fine.
I hid the pot with drift wood, and while that isn't really proper plant cleaning/Qt procedure I'm risking it in the viv in the pot because it is a pricey plant I really want to survive. 

So basically with anything new that is important to me/expensive I'll probably be trying to give them a period of settling/adaptation in actual vivarium conditions before I transplant them, or taking cuttings/leaves and trying those first to get new plants established and only resort to using the parent plant if absolutely necessary. Now for cheap walmart/home depot plants I won't bother with all that but if it is something really cool, and/or costly...worth the effort to me I think.


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## RabidWombat (Aug 4, 2012)

That's a good idea. I'll set up a plant tank that's very similar to viv conditions. Thanks for the input.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Dave makes an important point here. To extend it: 

1) Most begonias have very sensitive root systems. Not quite as bad as their relatives, the cucurbits, which should not be transplanted at all. I have a few Beg 'Buttercup' started from leaves, and I too cannot just place a "finished" plant into a tank; it will rot within a week. Why? Because its root system cannot adjust quickly enough to the tank substrate. These guys are not fittonias or pileas! It is far easier to plant the youngest/smallest plant possible, these will acclimate better. Dave is right on here, a rooted leaf that has sprung 2-3 new leaves usually works. But to try to plant a nice, full begonia--or many a gesneriad, for that matter--in a freshly dug hole is usually problematic.

2) Dave, buddy, I am a big proponent of hiding (raised) pots. I use clay or net pots as they breathe. I find this works well for facultative epiphytes and/or lithophytes, like many peperomias and epiphytic gesneriads. And we should keep in mind that many terrarium begonias naturally grow on tree trunks or moss-covered limestone! 

3) It is true that begonias do not like water sitting on their leaves, but they also do not like stagnant air. A leaf touching glass in a wet tank will rot. This can be tricky, because many "terrarium" begonias need high humidity and do not like stifling heat. What to do? Do not mist directly, and do not plant in areas directly under misters!

4) Equally important, in my view, is the fact that begonias do not like soggy substrates (see #2). Most have shallow root systems that spread sideways and need to breathe. An episcia, fittonia, pilea, syngonium, selaginella will all tolerate more soil moisture than a begonia, sinningia, peperomia, cryptanthus or jewel orchid. Plant the latter plants in higher, better-drained spots, or employ Dave's or my hidden pot method.

5) Wombat, can you post a pic of your tank and the begonias? It will help us help to walk you through this.

Hope this helps.

P. S.

I hope Bonnie, Corey and the Rizman weigh in on this one


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Groundhog said:


> Dave makes an important point here. To extend it:
> 
> 1) Most begonias have very sensitive root systems. Not quite as bad as their relatives, the cucurbits, which should not be transplanted at all. I have a few Beg 'Buttercup' started from leaves, and I too cannot just place a "finished" plant into a tank; it will rot within a week. Why? Because its root system cannot adjust quickly enough to the tank substrate. These guys are not fittonias or pileas! It is far easier to plant the youngest/smallest plant possible, these will acclimate better. Dave is right on here, a rooted leaf that has sprung 2-3 new leaves usually works. But to try to plant a nice, full begonia--or many a gesneriad, for that matter--in a freshly dug hole is usually problematic.
> 
> ...


Ya I've been a fan of raised pots, like some fake lava rock looking ones I found years back, or hiding regular pots with rock or wood....and I'm moving to faster draining more inorganic substrates. I find with some airflow and setups like that you can actually grow stuff that might not otherwise be viv suitable...and most other stuff likes it just fine too.

My bassleri tank is actually a 30 that was supposed to be a grow out viv for plants. I put severa 4-8inch fern pots in there and piled substrate and sphagnum around them and used a faster draining substrate...but I needed space for the frogs so to give them more comfort I added in several pieces of drift wood...I'll have to get a pic. That is the viv the pavonina is in too. It needs a background still, but I'll just build something outside the tank and drop it in and use magnets to hold it or hang it some way.

I also have this big rubbermaid like container, like 30gal or maybe 40, I'm thinking I'll set that up basically like a viv and use it to drop new plants into to acclimate them. Then eventually I'll probably cut out one side, stick a piece of glass or plexiglass on there and turn it into an actual viv LOL


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

Ok here is a shot of the 30...still has lots of growing in to do, especially moss wise. Pardon the FF cultures...Most of my regular ones crashed due to mites but there were still flies in that tank so I'm using them to seed some small feeder cultures while I make new cultures and place them in container with water around them since I don't have any mite paper at the moment...and am broke 

This tank has a couple selaginella, a few experimental plants, a couple iridescent ferns, bunch of seeds recently planted like micro sinningia (several are already growing well) and forget-me-nots, and some blue star creeper that managed to hang on and start to grow again after the transplant in the front right corner, etc..etc... The pavonina is in the pot hidden on right side of viv by wood in front right by the blue star creeper. I'm not going to get the iridescent on the pavonina in this viv probably. It is under quite a bit of light but doing well it seems...but that is killing its iridescent tendency. I do have a leaf planted over on the left side that hopefully will start a new plant and not melt like the other ones I tried awhile back. I may have to setup a sterile grow box to start new pavoninas. Anyways should be a dense and kinda interesting viv once grown in and a background is installed, but the sisa are just froglets so they'll probably get moved to a 40b or the 75 once I get those fixed up.








Closer shot with 3 of the fern pots partially visible...I probably buried them a little to much. I think there is actually 6 fern pots buried in this viv. 








And I managed to catch one of the inhabitants before he could duck for cover


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how it's done. 

Great set up, Dave!


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey Dave, what is the plant, in the lower right side of your first photo? Small and sparse leaves, vine like. In front of what looks like a Selaginella.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

aspidites73 said:


> Hey Dave, what is the plant, in the lower right side of your first photo? Small and sparse leaves, vine like. In front of what looks like a Selaginella.


In front of the big piece of wood helping to hide the begonia pavonina pot underneath the barcode sticker I've been to lazy to remove? That is the blue star creeper (Synonym: Isotoma fluviatilis Synonym: Laurentia fluviatilis), and I think along with that selaginella there is a micro sinningia popping up among it.

I didn't think it was going to make it. I had 2 big pots full of it I bought and almost all of it it died off promptly after transplanting, but a few pieces hung on and it has just been hanging out in that corner.


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## aspidites73 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dendro Dave said:


> In front of the big piece of wood helping to hide the begonia pavonina pot underneath the barcode sticker I've been to lazy to remove? That is the blue star creeper (Synonym: Isotoma fluviatilis Synonym: Laurentia fluviatilis), and I think along with that selaginella there is a micro sinningia popping up among it.
> 
> I didn't think it was going to make it. I had 2 big pots full of it I bought and almost all of it it died off promptly after transplanting, but a few pieces hung on and it has just been hanging out in that corner.


Errrrrr, yeah, that one. Thanks!


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## RabidWombat (Aug 4, 2012)

Groundhog said:


> 5) Wombat, can you post a pic of your tank and the begonias? It will help us help to walk you through this.


Here's a few pics of the location I had it in. It's just filled in with some moss right now.








I know I was definitely spraying it. I didn't know at the time not to. That's gotta be a big part.

RW


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

Hey RW, sorry to take so long to reply:

Hmnnn.... I do like your layout, but I just don't that is the right spot for 'Silver Jewel.' If I had to go with a begonia in that spot, I'd be more inclined to go with an epiphyte like herbacea or maybe conchifolia 'Zip.' Conversely, if my goal is to go with a rhizomatous begonia like Silver Jewel, I would consider the spot right behind the coco hut, using one of Dave's hidden pots. What do you think of a rhizo hanging over the coco hut?


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## RabidWombat (Aug 4, 2012)

Groundhog said:


> Hey RW, sorry to take so long to reply:
> 
> Hmnnn.... I do like your layout, but I just don't that is the right spot for 'Silver Jewel.' If I had to go with a begonia in that spot, I'd be more inclined to go with an epiphyte like herbacea or maybe conchifolia 'Zip.' Conversely, if my goal is to go with a rhizomatous begonia like Silver Jewel, I would consider the spot right behind the coco hut, using one of Dave's hidden pots. What do you think of a rhizo hanging over the coco hut?


It's tough to tell from the picture, but that spot actually has a built in pot in the background. There's a drainage hose too. That aside, what is it about the spot behind the hut that makes it a better spot? I really know very little about viv plants, I'm still pretty far down on the learning curve.

I checked out the two others you mentioned. I like the conchifolia 'zip'. That's very cute. I think i'll pick up one of those soon.


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## Groundhog (Dec 17, 2006)

RabidWombat said:


> It's tough to tell from the picture, but that spot actually has a built in pot in the background. There's a drainage hose too. That aside, what is it about the spot behind the hut that makes it a better spot?


For a 'Silver Jewel,' or other rhizo?
--More stable moisture (no need to spray);
--More stable temp/not too bright (not directly under lights);
--I take it that "drainage hose" means the spot drains well?

By contrast, the top left spot that you circle seems better suited to a somewhat tougher plant, one that can tolerate more in the way of environmental fluctuations. 

Just my impression--anyone else care to weigh in?


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## RabidWombat (Aug 4, 2012)

Groundhog said:


> For a 'Silver Jewel,' or other rhizo?
> --More stable moisture (no need to spray);
> --More stable temp/not too bright (not directly under lights);
> --I take it that "drainage hose" means the spot drains well?


Perfect, that's good info. I figured it'd do better there, but that's just my ignorance.  And yeah, that spot drains very well. I'll find something else for it and I'll toss something behind the cocohut when my cuttings get a little bigger.

I really appreciate the input.


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