# Amphibian Trade: Ban or Best Practice



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

I found this paper surfing around yesterday. It has a paragraph or 2 about the amphibian trade on page 3. From what I gather, this paper is a reply to a paper by Dr. Kriger and Hero about banning the trade or movement of amphibians.

http://www.savethefrogs.com/kerry-kriger/pdfs/Garner-2009-Reply-to-Kriger.pdf

Many species in the pet trade are closely
related both phylogenetically and ecologically to important
target conservation species. These species can be used to train
staff at regional centers so that when target species are brought
into captivity the likelihood of successful ex situ programs will
improve. In cases where target species are in the pet trade, they
may prove to be the best or only source of breeding stock. This
is no small beer; most zoos have far better developed reptile
husbandry and very few institutions boast of breeders and
keepers who are specialized in amphibian care, health, and
reproduction. Some zoos are already using amphibians purchased
from the private sector to develop the skills necessary to
implement the Amphibian Ark plans. From a conservation
perspective, this is not the time to alienate the pet trade sector,
which may be the most useful repository of captive breeding
and husbandry know-how and arguably has the greatest success
rate at breeding rare, difficult to keep, and difficult to breed
species.


----------



## skylsdale (Sep 16, 2007)

> From a conservation perspective, this is not the time to alienate the pet trade sector, which may be the most useful repository of captive breeding and husbandry know-how and arguably has the greatest success rate at breeding rare, difficult to keep, and difficult to breed species.


This was one of the primary reasons TWI was organized. Forming that relationship between the private and public sectors, however, is a tenuous process given past mishaps and black-eyes.

One of our goals at Microcosm is to bring together people from both sides in order to dialogue and explore ways in which private hobbyists (and their skills/resources) can contribute to conservation programs.


----------



## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Very cool.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

Ya, it mentions Amphibian Ark in the paragraph before the one I posted. I should`ve quoted that paragraph as it`s not the whole paper that`s in the link I posted. More info on smuggling and the food trade, etc.


skylsdale said:


> This was one of the primary reasons TWI was organized. Forming that relationship between the private and public sectors, however, is a tenuous process given past mishaps and black-eyes.
> 
> One of our goals at Microcosm is to bring together people from both sides in order to dialogue and explore ways in which private hobbyists (and their skills/resources) can contribute to conservation programs.


----------



## savethefrogs (Feb 21, 2009)

In case there are people who have not read the two related papers in the series, here they are:

Kriger, K.M. and Hero, J.-M. (2009) Chytridiomycosis, amphibian extinctions, and lessons for the prevention of future panzootics. EcoHealth 6(1):148-151

Kriger, K.M. and Hero, J.-M. (2009) After the horse has bolted: a reply to Garner et al. (2009). EcoHealth 6(1):152

I hope they fuel some thought-provoking discussions.
Dr. Kerry Kriger
Save The Frogs
Founder, Executive Director, Ecologist

Save The Frogs is America's first and only public charity dedicated to amphibian conservation. 
Our mission is to protect amphibian populations and to promote a society that respects and appreciates nature and wildlife.

International Day of Pesticide Action
October 24th, 2010

Save The Frogs Day
April 29th, 2011


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

So, do you think a black market will be any better on disease transfer? Because you realize that prohibition and criminalizing drugs hasn`t worked here at all. Actually, the rise in cost actually fuels the activity moreso and it only takes one infected amphibian to spread the disease.
How do you expect to stop all the people that are breeding frogs? Should we just dispose of all of our amphibian pets? Considering the private sector is much more advanced on breeding amphibians, how do you expect to keep the worlds amphibians bloodlines in order since there isn`t enough room at the zoos and institutions, to combat global extinctions?
What is the status on Bd and ranavirus in the US? Is it already in every state in the US? Bd has been spread throughout countries that don`t have pet trades. How are we to stop the spread when it can be transferred on plants and soil, etc.? I`m all for stopping the spread of amphibian disease but if your just banning the pet trade and not stopping the movement of the disease otherwise the effort will be futile and you`ll just end up suppressing the people that could actually help.


----------



## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

From your maps it seems Bd has been in the states for 40+years and in Canada for close to 50 years. Is that correct? And if so, why would you want to dismantle the amphibian trade at this late date? It seems to me, after 50 years, there isn`t much that can be done or much more that will happen. I understand the wc amphibians coming into the country and new diseases, but cb in the states over state lines?

I also have problems w/ this line of thought:
There are no published accounts of
studies that have successfully facilitated amphibians’ evolved
resistance to diseases, and it can be assumed that no such
protocols will be imminently developed that can protect the
world’s amphibian populations in the short-term. This is due
to: (1) the slow reproductive rate, and therefore evolutionary
adaptivity of most amphibians; (2) our current lack of
knowledge regarding amphibian husbandry (Lee et al.,
2006); and (3) potential negative effects associated with the
captive-breeding of amphibians over multiple generations
(Kraaijeveld-Smit et al., 2006).

First off, I have bred amphibians as young as 4-6 months ootw (mantella, dart frogs,reed frogs and vietnamese mossies). Second, there is a lot of information on husbandry of many amphibians here in the US. Unfortunately, most of it isn`t written in scientific literature but I`m sure the information would be shared if these people were asked. In captivity you can provide optimal conditions which would speed up the time period of maturity. We are also working on the potential negative effects associated w/ captive breeding thru Amphibian Ark, which is cited in Dr. Garner`s paper.


----------



## Afemoralis (Mar 17, 2005)

frogfarm said:


> From your maps it seems Bd has been in the states for 40+years and in Canada for close to 50 years. Is that correct? And if so, why would you want to dismantle the amphibian trade at this late date? It seems to me, after 50 years, there isn`t much that can be done or much more that will happen. I understand the wc amphibians coming into the country and new diseases, but cb in the states over state lines?
> 
> I also have problems w/ this line of thought:
> There are no published accounts of
> ...


I thought about those points as well. 

1) I'm imagining that the "slow reproductive rate" is in comparison to insects, rodents or weedy plants. Even our mass spawners generally have one seasonal 'boom' for the year, and then are out of the game. There is of course a scale within amphibians- but in terms of opportunities for genetic remixing the authors of the paper have a point. What they ignore is that similar programs have been undertaken for creating disease resistance in other long lived, "slow-reproducing" species. 

2) I don't think they are talking to the right people. This gets down to the fed/science/hobby divides that jab us at every turn. 

3) Again, this is a problem that has come up, and been dealt with, in any captive breeding program for eventual reintroduction. I'm not sure it has explicitly been done with amphibians, but it certainly has with birds and mammals.


At the same time though- I dont think this undermines the idea that hobby critters could be partly responsible for transport of pathogens- in the last few decades the scale, intensity, and interest in the culture of amphibians has risen dramatically. We all know that as a group we have a problem with favoring the "new" morphs or species.... and this frequently leads to ethically shady choices (WC Mantellas anyone?) New species come in, and after a wave, they disappear. While I think we do better than many other herp hobbies (thanks for the pythons, monitors, and cobras in the Everglades....jerks) even the new frogs get to folks who aren't ready, don't know what they are doing, and haven't given pathogen transmission a first thought. 

Best route out? I don't know. We need greater communication between the feds/hobby/scientists, which I think TWI/ASN are doing a good job of. We need to know if pathogen transmission is really an issue at least for the dendrohobby- again TWI/ASN's study is a great first step and should be supported. But we also need to deal with the ugly reality that WC amphibians are likely vectors, and they get into the wrong hands easily, commonly, and without consequence. Maybe some regulation is in order.

-Afemoralis


----------

