# My first frog tank



## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Having been a saltwater reef keeper for the last 3 years and having years of experience in freshwater planted tanks I wanted something that was easier on maintenance to allow me more time with my family. I was obsessed with frogs particularly red eyed tree frogs and darts in my younger years but never looked into keeping exotic frogs until recently. I have a 50g breeder 36x18x18 that I was planning to setup as a high tech freshwater planted. Recently was outside doing some yard work with my son (2yrs old) and found a few frogs and he absolutely loved them. Wanted to hold them and walked around talking about them for the next few days. He has had multiple trips to the local zoo that has some good frog exhibits and he is glued. So I was excited when I started doing some research and found that people keep and breed darts in their homes. 

This is where my obsessive side started to take over. A week later and I've spent a lot of time researching and have decided this tank will be a dart frog tank. In particular looking at dendrobates tinctorius azureus. 

Tank is drilled in the bottom opposite corners so planning a false bottom, with a corner waterfall to a small stream with another small stream running into a shallow pond. Water will be circulated and filtered by a canister filter. Planning to either get a mistking or construct my own with an extra rodi booster pump I have laying around from other projects. Also looking at controllers as a possible option to control fans and other equipment. Have a 36" 4 bulb t5 diy fixture for lighting as well as a variety of diy led equipment that I might use for some supplemental night lighting/ storm effects. Any tips or info is appreciated. Still have lots of info to absorb and learn before I will be diving in. Don't plan on rushing this but I did clean up the tank and get started on an idea for my false bottom and layout. Here is a picture.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

So the plan is the right side return from the canister will be cut down, new piping with smaller diameter tubing will be used with a hole drilled in the rock and some foam work to make sure water travels down the rock to the stream which I will be making an acrylic channel to direct water down to the pond. Planning to use cork bark for the background and half of the side of the tank possibly the whole side.

Return will be accessible in case of clog not sure how yet. might just use some lace rock to cover it well. Planning to cover false bottom with some landscape fabric.

One question I have is I have some ADA power sand and aquasoil that was going to be used in my freshwater planted tank. Its supposed to be great for growing plants, was thinking about using some as a medium under some some ABG mix with sphagnum moss and leaf litter mixed in. Although it is meant to be submerged was kind of thinking with the high humdity levels that it might still be ok.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

I would reduce the water feature a little more. Like halfway over from where it is btu that's just me  it would give them more land. They are climbers so I would put a branch that sticks out like in my viv if you can. Or some ledges would be cool. I have a cork tube horizontal in the back that's like a ledge also with a cork tube sticking out and up a little bit like a branch and using the open end as a planter. Just some ideas since this is what I see them hanging out the most. 

Here is my Azureus 40 gallon breeder. It also has a cansiter filter on it. I have 4 Galaxy rasboras is the water now along with a colony of malaysian trumpet snails. 









I would reconsider using acrylic as silicone and acrylic don't bond very well and the acrylic has been known to leak over time from warping and the silicone not adhering to the acrylic well. 

I'm curious what that tubing is for running from the rock. 

Also not sure what you mean about the ABG mix are you thinking about putting it in the water with the aquasoil or you're wanting to put the aqua soil under the ABG mix? I don't think it will be needed under the ABG

Lastly I would get some older frogs since they are more robust and would deal with getting out of the water better.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Thank you for the tips! The water feature isnt going to quite be as big as it looks. The 2nd pic is probably where it will be moved to with a gradual slope down to maybe a baseball size center if that makes sense. Originally I wanted more of a paludarium but found out rather quickly that big water isnt very dart frog savvy. And takes up too much room. Kind of torn but I have a 55g as well that gives me 48x12x21 for dimensions I could use too but feel like the 12" would be a little limiting and I would have to figure out a different plan for water filtration because Im pretty stuck on having a little waterfall/ stream type feature. Here is a picture with a nice piece of manzanita that I have from my FW planted idea. Was also considering a piece of malasian driftwood instead if I can find a nice piece. Initially was thinking about putting some shrimp or something in the water feature but think now I will just be sticking to maybe a small portion of duck weed that floats on the top or some smaller habitat correct plants.

Great looking tank btw! any chance you have a build thread? I have some glue they use for building acrylic tanks so shouldnt have any issues there. The tubing a manzanita branch are kind of representing the shape plan for the streams. As far as ABG mix was planning to use that as the primary substrate with a small gravel for the pond. I asked about the aquasoil and power sand are one of the best products out there for FW planted so was just curious if it might be a good medium for plant growth. Or if the ABG mix is quality enough I might just try to recoup some of the outrageous costs for that product. Haha


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks and yeah I have a build thread http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...29-dragon-spirits-40g-azureus-paludarium.html

The acrylic cement will bond it well but what I mean is the channel might still warp. I recently build a box for my tarantula and the box warped to bad it busted open. I had to go in and reinforce it. You might have better luck though. Not sure how you would conceal the channel. 

Here is the box I built. The top right corner busted apart and I had to redo the top and add more ventilation and add a cross brace because of pesky humidity. The lid was warped for the longest time but sits flush now since the substrate is bone dry. I even baked the cocofiber before putting it in there and it still produced enough humidity to warp things just from minute residual moisture. 



















The ABG will suffice by itself  Only thing I would be worried about is the chemicals or whatever they are using to make the pH just right and such according the the product description. It also says it's all natural but idk how safe it woul dbe for the frogs. Also being on the bottom I thing the nutrient would just get washed off the aquasoil per se and be a waste. It would work well in the water though. 

I get my wood from aquarium sections of pet stores. Also occasionally Petco pr Petsmart will have some nice wood. Yet at aquarium stores or mom and pop pet stores I usually get to dig through big tubs full of wood to find pieces I want.

As far as controlling fans I use a 4 fan speed controller I got off NewEgg yet I just found this one for you I paid $15 for mine. That seller isn't availiable and now they are nearly $19 through NewEgg 
3 5inch PC HDD CPU 4 Channel Fan Speed Controller LED Cooling Front Panel Be | eBay

If you're only looking to control 1 fan I use this one. I am using it on my 29 gallon crestie viv. 
ZALMAN FAN MATE 2 Controller, Panel-Newegg.com

As far as fans these are the only 2 kinds I use 
EVERCOOL FAN-EC4010M12CA Case Fan-Newegg.com

And then the Stealth line from Vantec is a bit bulky but they are silent I use both the 60mm and 80mm. 
Vantec Stealth 80mm Double Ball Bearing Silent Case Fan - Model SF8025L-Newegg.com

Devin aka hydrophyte has some nice laser cut fan mounts. I have gotten 40mm ones from him in the past idk if he still has them anymore. I think he also had 80mm ones too. 
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pl...s/288297-rare-plants-60mm-fan-mount-kits.html

EDIT: be careful getting ABG mix from some vendors not all of them use the right ingredients. If it doesn't have tree fern fiber it's not ABG mix. I know Glass Box Tropicals and New England Herpetoculture has true ABG mix.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

My thought although there will be some trial and error to it would be essentially to use a fairly thick stock of arcylic that I have currently for the bottom with some thinner stock for the sides and use the thicker stock to build some feet to help support it. then I would line that with rock to conceal it. I did plan to do some R&D on it before implementing it into the tank and if it holds up with some good weight on it I think it should work out alright. but once I get the rock fixed up probably will have to epoxy or great stuff some pieces on the side of my main rock to make sure the water channels down it properly. then it will drop down to a second rock, and once it drops off that it will go straight to the channel and down to the pool.

Makes sense on the aquasoil. Ill just see about getting rid of it to fund this project. I have a pet shop that has changed names and owners a few times but I have been using them since I was a kid. Got a half a dozen fire bellied toads and my leopard gecko from them as a kid. They have a good stock on rock and wood regularly. No frogs unfortunately so most of my stuff will have to be acquired online. 

I have been trying to figure out how to go about the fans, should have thought about this being that I recently built a gaming pc and was looking at these for cooling. Funny you mention the fan mounts I just saw those today and thought they looked slick.

Looks like I will be getting my ABG mix from glass box tropicals, joshs frogs is where I have been looking mainly for all my equipment and ideas but was planning to expand that once I got a good list together. Hopefully will be ordering that here soon and then once I get some unnecessary equipment sold off Ill get some plants and get this thing going. Thanks again for all your help. Looking forward to getting into this hobby. And Ill have to take a look through your build thread. Need some inspiration on plant types to get.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Some questions I have, I swung by my local petco just to browse around however their selection on items is rather limited. Was considering using the zoo med cork tiles or flats for a partial background, and probably great stuff foam with some aquarium safe silicone I have from marineland and either sphagnum moss or coco fiber to cover it. 

How does great stuff hold up over time? 

I kind of like the cork flats over the tiles as it adds some good depth changes to the tank. And planning on buying a few cork tubes to use on the background for some potting spots and to add a little detail as well. Originally was planning to cover the complete back and most of the sides with just the cork trimmed to fix tight. But I think I like the mixed look more. Planning to cover the outside of the tank with black vinyl wrap so silicone isnt seen from the sides of the tank. Plus I have a good hookup through work which always helps.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

The biggest issue that people have with great stuff if they let foam out too much and it creates big air pockets in the back. It's best to stab it with a few toothpicks creating holes for some of that air to escape.
Some folks say to always use silicone between the glass and great stuff but I never have. I had this one tank actually tested it I put a patch a silicone with great stuff and I put a patch of just great stuff I was actually able to pull the great stuff with silicone off easier.
I have encountered great stuff that's on houses and stuff that's been there for there forever. 
If that Marineland silicone is clear it's going to show. I get a huge bag of spagnum peat moss from Lowe's and it's organic for like $12 to $14. It's a big amount lol. 
I use a 30 gallon trash bag to store it.
Here lately though I've been staying away from doing too much of the peach backgrounds and just been using Spyra which is like Hygrolon. Moss and plants root to it. 
I use black contact paper that I get off at Amazon because I'm a Prime member and it gets to me quick.

As far as a routing the fans you can drill a notch in the rim of the tank and run your wires. When you put the top on it will butt up against it.
I usually convert my aquariums so they are on their side or upright so I can build so I build sliding doors holes. I drill holes for fans and such.

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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Ok good to know, not planning to use a ton of it. I guess Ill have to get some different silicone. Any recommendations? Im assuming I can find some brown or black at home depot or lowes that will work fine? I might go get some of that stuff tomorrow see what petco has for cork and get some great stuff and peat moss or something for the rest of the background. Gonna have to chip away at this project a little at a time for now. I have like 11 other tanks sitting in my garage right now and Im already planning out options for a couple... haha

I have a 55 glass, 50 acrylic, 2 29g, 27 bowfront, 2 20L, and a 10g, along with another random 30g acrylic that needs a little work to be usable and a 75 gallon but the bottom is shattered.... needless to say im addicted. All of these were saltwater tanks throughout the last 3 years. Hospital tanks, holding tanks, pod breeding tanks. 

I have a quality rodi unit planning on disconnecting before the di compartment and using that for my misting water and any top off needed. I have a nice 25g acrylic container I had made for top off water for the reef tank but never got hooked up so will work great for that setup. Either going to pickup one of those beamsworks leds (found a few on amazon) or ill run my 4 bulb t5 setup with only 2 bulbs. If I have heat issues ill probably go to the leds. Thats all I ran on my reef tanks except for the start I used metal halides but had way too many heat issues.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Picked up a couple cork flats from petco today and a 3 brick pack of the Eco earth coconut fiber for the background. Figured I'd try it since it was only $6. Wondering if I should just break the bricks up or if I should expand it with water then toss it in the over to dry it out. Wife might not like me putting it in the over all that much. Any experience with the bricks?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Stkef9 said:


> Picked up a couple cork flats from petco today and a 3 brick pack of the Eco earth coconut fiber for the background. Figured I'd try it since it was only $6. Wondering if I should just break the bricks up or if I should expand it with water then toss it in the over to dry it out. Wife might not like me putting it in the over all that much. Any experience with the bricks?


You'll find a break on those breaks apart is extremely hard and like I showed you with that tarantula habitat baking rehydrated cocofiber doesn't get rid of all the moisture and it won't stick very well to the silicone

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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Well I guess Ill find a different use for it and see what I find at home depot tomorrow. Save it for some substrate mix for the next tank . I did mess around a bit with some rock I have and the cork flats. Going to get what I need for my plumbing tomorrow along with some great stuff, silicone and background material. What black silicone do you use for all of your viv stuff? Heres some updated pics. Going to move stuff around a bit and see what I come up with. Need to keep some access to the drain and return in the corners in case I have any issues. I have valves at the canister but will probably throw an extra in because redundancy is always better than having one part fail. 

On the right side of the tank the rock will be up towards the top of the tank for the waterfall/ stream feature. Going to get a couple 90s to get my return pipe all the way in the corner of the tank to save a little room. will be using loc line with a flat fan with some foam and rock over the top to hide it and restricted by a ball valve to get the desired effect.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

The silicone when I use is GE2 many say not to use it but I've seen a lot of people say that they've never seen any ill effects however in the future I won't be using it on any more bills I will be getting the ASI black silicone

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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> The silicone when I use is GE2 many say not to use it but I've seen a lot of people say that they've never seen any ill effects however in the future I won't be using it on any more bills I will be getting the ASI black silicone
> 
> Sent from my Samsung GALAXY Note4 using Tapatalk


The mold and mildew inhibitor characteristics just means it leaches some
sort of chemical to keep that at bay. I know people have had major issues using it in aquariums for fish but likely whatever they use will get consumed by the plants. Last night I ordered 4 tubes of asi black silicone online, need to order some great stuff pond for store delivery because they have none in stock. Ordered a pack of 2" plant net pots off amazon. And tomorrow on my lunch break will be heading to Home Depot to get my plumbing parts squared away.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

Stkef9 said:


> The mold and mildew inhibitor characteristics just means it leaches some
> sort of chemical to keep that at bay. I know people have had major issues using it in aquariums for fish but likely whatever they use will get consumed by the plants. Last night I ordered 4 tubes of asi black silicone online, need to order some great stuff pond for store delivery because they have none in stock. Ordered a pack of 2" plant net pots off amazon. And tomorrow on my lunch break will be heading to Home Depot to get my plumbing parts squared away.


Apparently it's an endocrine disruptor as well

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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Well finally got to work on this tank. Will try to get some more details up soon. Got the substrate in, built the doors with some frame work meant for display cases. Got some plants and have a few more on there way should be here Thursday. So far running giessman flora and daylight bulbs and seeing great growth out of all my plants. My peperomia prostrata is growing really well and ficus pumila verigated is starting to crawl up the back. Got a couple bromiliads from glass box tropicals, got a fireball x burgundy and a domino. Both neoregilia species. Got some dwarf white isos in there and springs on the way. 

Still looking for more microfauna to start my own cultures soon. Got another plant order on the way will update with pics when they arrive. Still deciding on frogs. Thinking green sipaliwinis if I can find some in the next month or two. 

Put in some Dusk Moss Mix on thursday and already seeing some growth popping up.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Here's my plant list so far.

Neoregilia Domino
Neoregilia Royal Burgundy X Fireball
Ficus Pumila Verigated
Peperomia Prostrata
Golden Spikemoss

And being delivered tomorrow 
Pellionia "Watermelon"
Satin pothos
Spathiphyllum "Vicky Lynn"
Saxifrage Stilonifera "Strawberry Begonia"
Korean Rock Fern

Will post some more pics with updates once I get the plants in. Still waiting for my bug burger to arrive for my isopods so in the meantime I threw a couple pieces of my dogs kibble it's blue Buffalo so fairly high quality in terms of dry food and the isopods are going nuts on it. They all seem to have congregated to one piece of it even though I spread the isos throughout he tank. Its got a funky mold layer now so we will see how much damage these isos do over a few days. 

Possibly going to be ordering frogs in the next month or two planning to QT them for at least a month before going into the tank.but need to look more into that process. All coral and fish were QTd before going into the tank so I'm assuming frogs it's probably a good habit to make.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

As I do every night when I get home I check over the tank see what's going on and give it a little misting. This Dusk Moss Mix requires that it has constant moisture while it's coming out of its dormant state. I'm super excited to see a bunch of green popping up across the tank in less than a full week. Also found 3 little sprouts of some kind. Which was something I found really cool about the moss mix was the possibility for some random stuff. Here's a couple pictures. 

Cant wait for my plant shipment and springtails to show up. Going to start a springtail culture with half of the culture receive and the other half will go into the tank for now so they can get to work.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Plant shipment and springtails came from Josh' frogs today everything looks great. Bigger portions than I was expecting and not sure what I'm going to do with this other chunk of strawberry begonia. Wasn't too sure on the springtails until I poured them into my culture bin then they came to life. A ton of adults and a ton of babies running around. Got the plants all set for now and looking forward to them perking up a bit over the next couple days.

Planning on getting some isopod cultures going very soon. Will probably do a dwarf white and dwarf purple culture for now. My wife keeps asking why im coming home with more 6qt sterilite containers.... then follows it up with im guessing its for the frog tank?  

Also planning out picking up a mist king in the near future along with a couple 40mm fans im going to put in the top front corners for a little air circulation if needed.

Still think that I am going to go with a small group of Dendrobates Tinc. Green Sipaliwinis for this tank. Not sure yet where I am going to be getting them from. I have contacted Josh's Frogs and they have some that will be ready in 4-5 weeks which should be about perfect timing. Still planning to QT them for at least 30 days and going to contact a couple local vets about checking fecals.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Well its been terribly long since an update. Im not very good at these build pages. But the tank is pretty much fully planted and filling in nicely. Since my last post I have completely changed direction and got 8 Ranitomeya Southern Variabilis for this tank. They are currently being housed in a 54 qt tub planted and seeded with tons of isopods and springtails. FF cultures are booming and doing great so far.

I already have had 2 clutches of eggs from these 7-8 month OOW group. The first clutch swelled and molded over. The second clutch of 5 eggs looks like its going to be a solid group everyone of them currently has developed its full body. Im guessing I am around day 8-9 from fertilization. Hopefully these pics all post the correct orientation.


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## Stkef9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Does anyone know why my pictures keep posting upside down? I have tried rotating them and different orders and some pics always seem to post upside down..... its annoying


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## kromar (Jun 6, 2015)

If they are taken with your smartphone then it most likely has some kind of rotation recognition so it shows in the right orientation on your phone, however any other software will not have this information and the rotation will be wrong.
Just disabe this feature if possible and rotate them manually so its correct or use a different software that shows the real orientation.

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