# Isopod grow out container setup



## thane

Hello,

I have some "power blue" (flowery blue) isopods originally purchased from another dendroboard member. I added them to my vivarium a couple months prior to adding frogs, and they were breeding well, but once the frogs went in they mostly all got eaten. So I'd like to raise some more in an external container.

I've already purchased everything, I just haven't put it together yet. Was hoping to get feedback first.

Container - I purchased a 32 quart sterilite gasket box, which has a foam lining around the lid that makes it air tight. I wanted one with a really good seal for fear of having all the little larvae crawl out from the crack in the lid.

Vents - I also got some no-see-um mesh to make some vents in the side. *Does anyone have any suggestion how big to make the vents?* Not sure if the bugs like a lot of airflow or what. I believe I'm supposed to keep it consistently moist so I'm thinking if I make the vents too big, the soil will dry out all the time.

Substrate - I have some peat moss, expanded glass aggregate (AKA "grow stones"), and some compost (comes from the city yard waste facility, so should not contain any cow manure). Was thinking of making a mix out of these, with the peat for moisture retention, compost for nutrients, and a smaller portion of grow stones to prevent clumping. My biggest question mark is whether I should use the compost or not, and if I do, should I consider sterilizing it to avoid introducing microbes?

Food - I've got some leaf mulch that I made by collecting some partially decomposed leaves, then rinsing, boiling, and drying them. I added some of this to the substrate in the vivarium to promote growth before I added the frogs. The reason for boiling was I didn't want to introduce any pathogens. I also added fish flakes, which they seemed to like. So was going to add fish flakes to the grow-out container too. And I read on here that isopods like wet cardboard, so was going to try and find some clean pieces to add. Might also consider buying some Repashy bug burger or morning wood.

That's all my thoughts. I'd appreciate any feedback anyone has to offer. *My main concerns are how big to make the vents, and whether adding compost is a good idea (if so, should I try to sterilize it first)? 
*
I also intend to do some additional research on here, and I'll have to do some trial and error to figure out how wet they like it and how often to feed them. But wasn't able to find much about ventilation or using compost.


Thanks for reading,
Thane


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## radiata

Thane,

I think the biggest problem you'll have is with attaching the screening/No-See-Um to the Sterilite container. Nothing sticks really well to it. My solution was to use some Gorilla Tape to attach a metal screen. The screen was from an old PetCo FF culture. 

I don't think the vents need to be especially large - the larger they are the quicker the culture substrate will dry out. I used a 1.25" hole saw on mine, but it was for Giant Oranges, which like it a bit on the dry side. If I was making one for Powder Blues, I think I'd make a 5/8" hole.

Hope this helps...

Bob


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## thane

Thanks Bob - that helps. I really had no clue how big to make the vents.

I haven't got the no-see-um mesh yet (had to order it online) so I made a temporary container for them last night out of an ice cream container.

I cut the holes with an X-acto knife and used some plastic window screen I used to make vents for a frog quarantine bin. I probably made the vents way too big according to your above recommendation.




Just like you said - I used gorilla tape because that's the same solution I used for the quarantine bin. I taped the screen on from the inside and used tape all around the outside so there's no rough edges.




I wasn't sure whether my compost idea was safe or not, so I just used peat and some leaf mulch and misted it a little bit and added some fish flakes then dumped the culture in. They came shipped with a damp paper towel so I just left that in there. They're still hanging out on it. I flipped it over just now and all these were on the bottom:




Thanks for your help - I won't get the no-see-um mesh until Monday so hoping someone can weigh in before then on whether adding compost is a good or bad idea.

Thanks,
Thane


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## Aquarimax

thane said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Container - I purchased a 32 quart sterilite gasket box, which has a foam lining around the lid that makes it air tight. I wanted one with a really good seal for fear of having all the little larvae crawl out from the crack in the lid.
> 
> Vents - I also got some no-see-um mesh to make some vents in the side. *Does anyone have any suggestion how big to make the vents?* Not sure if the bugs like a lot of airflow or what. I believe I'm supposed to keep it consistently moist so I'm thinking if I make the vents too big, the soil will dry out all the time.
> 
> Substrate - I have some peat moss, expanded glass aggregate (AKA "grow stones"), and some compost (comes from the city yard waste facility, so should not contain any cow manure). Was thinking of making a mix out of these, with the peat for moisture retention, compost for nutrients, and a smaller portion of grow stones to prevent clumping. My biggest question mark is whether I should use the compost or not, and if I do, should I consider sterilizing it to avoid introducing microbes?


I have found that the newly released young isopods can't/don't crawl out UNLESS there is a leaf, stick, or whatever that they can climb to reach the crack. When that happens, they'll swarm out in droves. This has happened a couple of times with my jungle Micropods and my dwarf striped cultures. I try to be really careful to make sure they don't have an exit anymore.

With the gasket box, vents are probably a good idea, but can be minimal for most species, such as the Powder blues you have. Armadillidium species need more. I keep many of my isopods in Sterilite 6-quart boxes without any ventilation, but the containers aren't airtight. I vent my Armadillodium containers. I hot glue window screen covered with no-seeum type mesh.

The peat moss is a bit acidic, but should be ok mixed with other substrate material. I would consider sanitizing the compost before use. You could introduce something you don't want into your viv. It wouldn't hurt to add some bits of cuttlebone to ensure sufficient calcium for the isopods.


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## thane

Thanks - I didn't think to put any calcium in there, unless it's in the fish flakes. I have some "calcinated clay" (AKA turface) I could add in there, I guess. I went ahead and put them in the box a couple days ago. I ended up putting six 1/2-inch holes, spaced around the outside. I wanted to err on the side of too much ventilation so I could just cover them up later if needed.

I held off on adding any compost for fear of introducing pathogens. If I do add it in there later, I'll cook it in the oven first or something. At this point I just added about 4 in. of peat moss, mixed with a good amount of my sanitized leaf mulch, gave it a good misting, then put some pieces of wet cardboard and fish flakes on the top. 

The last couple times I checked though, the isopods are still hanging out on the paper towels they were shipped with. I wonder if they like having more surface area, or if I made the substrate too moist so they don't want to burrow into it or something. They don't appear to have touched the fish flakes much, at least none were out feeding when I checked, and the fish flakes have got some mold on them. I got some Repashy Morning Wood in the mail yesterday, but will hold off on adding any of that until they've eaten away the mold and fish flakes.

I'll try and take some new pictures and add any updates on here if things change.

Thanks,
Thane


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## Aquarimax

Sounds like a good setup. The only worry I might have is that fungus gnats or other pests might enter through the vent holes. When I vent my containers, I cover them with very fine mesh from a fabric store, attached with hot glue. At any rate, once your isopods are really breeding, they'll outcompete the fungus gnats. That is, at least, what I have noticed.


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## thane

That is a very, very good point. I did use the no-see-um mesh, which I thought would be about as small as you can get. Then just over the last week, I've started seeing some small gnats in there  (not 100% sure if they're fungus gnats or others). I later read some posts from Doug/Pumilio about some micron filter discs, which I kind of wish I had used.

To attempt to solve the gnat problem I've put one of these in the container (suspended, so no isopods can get to it), and I open the lid about once a day and knock it around and blow on it so the gnats get disturbed. Haven't caught too many on the trap yet, but hoping I can prevent a big gnat explosion. Right now I'm seeing maybe 10 total at a time. They look kind of like really tiny mosquitoes. If this continues to be an ongoing problem, I'll think about maybe taping over the current filters and replacing with some micron filters or fabric, as you suggested.

Other than the gnats, the isopods seem happy enough. There's some some larvae I can see already. I've been experimenting with how wet they like it. I'll mist half of the substrate at a time to see which side they prefer. For feeding them, I've got the sterilized leaf mulch, wet cardboard, fish flakes, and lately I've been giving them Repashy Morning Wood, which they really like, although tends to get moldy really quick.

I'll have to add some pictures. I forgot I never added pictures of the completed enclosure.

Thanks,
Thane


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## thane

thane said:


> To attempt to solve the gnat problem I've put one of these in the container (suspended, so no isopods can get to it)


Forgot to add link: 




I found this on another post on here regarding fungus gnats.


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## thane

Sorry I don't know if anyone cares, but I said I'd post some photos a while back, and just got around to taking the pictures tonight.

The isopods all seem to be happy. I see some smaller ones in there, which I assume are juveniles. Haven't found any dead ones. I've got the box next to a basement window, so it gets some natural light during the day but generally dark. I just mist it about once a week to keep the substrate slightly moist. I did some experimenting, misting half of the tank at a time, to see which side they prefer so I could know how moist they like it. 

I add food (repashy morning wood) about once a week also. It gets pretty moldy within a day or two, then I wait for the mold to die down and the food to disappear before adding more. They've got plenty of leaf litter and cardboard to snack on too.

Here's some of the bugs. They scatter pretty quick when the lights are on, but if I sneak in with a flashlight at night, I can see a bunch of them out and about. I had to flip over one of the cardboard pieces to get this picture. They're darker in person - their shell is kind of shiny so it reflects the flash.




Sorry - I never added pictures of the completed box. Here's a picture from the outside:




From the inside:



What's that thing in the middle of the box? Well, I was finding some fungus gnats (or some other small black flying insect, smaller than a mosquito) for about a week. I didn't want to have some huge outbreak, so I bought the sticky insect cards (amazon link above). I didn't want to stick the cards where the isopods or larvae would get on them, so I stuck the card in a glass and put the glass in the middle of the box. Then I went and stirred up the substrate and blew on it every day for about a week. The gnats all disappeared within a couple days, so that was great. I just left the card in there as a precaution.



Closeup of the inside of one of the vents. I just drilled holes, covered them in no-see-um on the inside, and clear gorilla tape around the no-see-um mesh.





Thanks for your assistance everyone, I appreciate it.

Thane


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## chillplants

Not sure if I missed it, but what size hole did you make? 
I use these for my springtails to cover the holes. They are adhesive so I just drill 2 holes in my tupperware top and stick these to the outside. 
Orchid Mushroom Culture Flask Filters Self Adhesive Autoclave Safe Breathable | eBay
I may grab a couple containers like you have and give isopods a try.


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## thane

Those look good. I'd think a finer filter would be even more important for springtails. After I built this I read a post by Doug/Pumilio, the king of the isopods. He said he uses some sort of micron fiber discs, which looked good also.

FYI if you're looking for these bins, I kind of went on a wild goose chase to find them. I wanted the ones with the gasket around the top so it would be air-tight (other than the vents). I finally found them at Target. They're called "Sterelite Air Tight" at Target and came in 3 sizes. I think this is the medium size.

I can't remember 100%, but I think these are 1/2 inch holes. I drilled 1 on each of the ends, 2 on each of the sides, and 2 in the lid. I figured more ventilation was better, and I could always cover them if the box was drying out too much. It seems to keep pretty moist though and I'm just misting it about once a week.


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## Aquarimax

chillplants said:


> Not sure if I missed it, but what size hole did you make?
> I use these for my springtails to cover the holes. They are adhesive so I just drill 2 holes in my tupperware top and stick these to the outside.
> Orchid Mushroom Culture Flask Filters Self Adhesive Autoclave Safe Breathable | eBay
> .


Thanks for posting this link. I usually use tape or hot glue, which both work well, but these self-adhesive culture flask filters look like they would safe time and effort! How long before the adhesive deteriorates... or does it?


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## chillplants

Not 100% sure on how long they last. I put 2 on my springtail culture back in April and they are still really stuck on. I have already pulled hundreds of springtails out of my cultures, so the bugs seem to be very happy.
I'm going to see if I can find these containers and give it a try with isos.


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## Aquarimax

chillplants said:


> Not 100% sure on how long they last. I put 2 on my springtail culture back in April and they are still really stuck on. I have already pulled hundreds of springtails out of my cultures, so the bugs seem to be very happy.
> I'm going to see if I can find these containers and give it a try with isos.


If they've lasted this long with no issues, they're probably good to go for a long time. 
I hope to be able to try these. I went to the link, and the seller was in the UK. Not a deal breaker, but maybe I can find some closer to home and save on shipping. 


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## frograck

Just FYI for anyone reading this thread... similar gasketed containers with clamps are manufactured and sold under three brands that I know of, "IRIS weathertight", "ziploc weathersheild", and "the container store gasketed tote." I use them for a bunch of big cultures as well as froglets grow outs. For insects I drill holes and use the micron mesh that pumilio referenced, and for froglets I drill holes to fit half of a stainless steel mesh tea ball. The best deal right now are the 4 and 6 packs of the ziploc brand weathersheld by shopping on Amazon prime.


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## Stryker

Couldn't you just cover the holes with a coffee filter? Very cheap and you get hundreds for a few bucks and they are always available. 

I also looked on Amazon for the storage boxes you mentioned, specifically the Ziploc weatherguard and they were not cheap. Again couldn't you use https://www.amazon.com/Sterilite-16...1483333243&sr=1-1&keywords=plastic+shoe+boxes


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## Phantastic

Stryker said:


> Couldn't you just cover the holes with a coffee filter? Very cheap and you get hundreds for a few bucks and they are always available.
> 
> I also looked on Amazon for the storage boxes you mentioned, specifically the Ziploc weatherguard and they were not cheap. Again couldn't you use https://www.amazon.com/Sterilite-16...1483333243&sr=1-1&keywords=plastic+shoe+boxes


I love the coffee filter idea, I wonder if they'd degrade and break down over time or if they'd last long term? I know they're designed to be used in a wet environment since you're running water through them for coffee, but I wonder if they're durable enough to stand up like if you're going to be using that container for this purpose for years on end, or if you'd have to replace them pretty frequently.

I know Thane isn't using the shoe boxes you linked because they specifically wanted something with an air-tight gasket. I actually am using those exact shoe boxes for two cultures I'm growing out, as several isopod culturing articles I had read mentioned that these work great... those pages all recommended actually not drilling any holes at all, because the non-airtight lids allow enough air exchange for the isopods without letting the substrate dry out too quickly. I opted for that since I'm super lazy and didn't want to drill anything.  Mine are doing great with it so far, but I only moved my cultures into the shoeboxes like a week ago. The only thing that worries me is if I stack shoe boxes on top of one another, will the weight of the top box cause a tight enough seal on the bottom one that it'd cut off a lot of their air supply on the bottom? I've pondered drilling a few small holes in the actual boxes (like along a side, so I could stack several boxes), just for this reason, but not sure if it's necessary.

Thane, for preventing the gnats getting in, it might be easier to get something even finer like other folks have recommended, and instead of replacing what you've got on the bottom of the lid, just adding the additional filter to the top? Then you'd have kinda two layers of different mesh. And slightly less effort as you wouldn't have to pull out what you've already got in there. 

Also as far as your fish flakes molding, something I've had a lot of luck with as far as feeding fish food is using the pelleted kind instead. They seem to resist molding a lot longer, and my isopods love to actually grab them and drag them down into the substrate where they seem to get mobbed and eaten REALLY quickly by all the babies. If your food is in there long enough to mold, it might also just be that you're feeding too much for how big your population is, too. I had trouble with mold or worms developing when I tried some of the other suggestions for food to give isopod colonies (like chunks of raw vegetables, or dog food kibble, which is the one that caused a nematode invasion), which I think was often because those things were just too large and too much food for my colony to eat. But I've had tremendous luck with pelleted fish food. The page I saw recommending it specifically used cichlid fish food, but I got just a regular cheap tropical fish food pelleted kind and my colonies have done GREAT on it. In fact right after I started feeding the pelleted food my powder blues had an absolute population explosion. After about the first week on it I suddenly had babies everywhere.  I actually started my colonies off in glass canning jars (with a few holes punched in the lids), and just recently moved them to the sterilite shoe boxes because there was suddenly so many I was getting worried about population density in the small space they were in.

For calcium, some of mine came from the seller with egg shell in their substrate, so I've continued to use that on occasion, but they haven't even completely consumed the eggshell that came with them originally, so they don't seem to need much. Love the idea of using a little bit of cuttlebone, too; that'd be easier to just crush up and have on hand to add any time you need it. I don't eat a lot of eggs so adding eggshell is sometimes annoying. ;D


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## frograck

Stryker said:


> Couldn't you just cover the holes with a coffee filter? Very cheap and you get hundreds for a few bucks and they are always available.
> 
> I also looked on Amazon for the storage boxes you mentioned, specifically the Ziploc weatherguard and they were not cheap. Again couldn't you use https://www.amazon.com/Sterilite-16...1483333243&sr=1-1&keywords=plastic+shoe+boxes


You could.the advantage of the weathertight containers is two-fold... they don't have any tiny gap around the seal so that mites cannot get in, and tiny juvenile woodlice cannot get out.

Years ago while culturing draws woodlice, one of my containers had tiny holes drilled in the lid. I began to notice that the outside top of the lid always had dried up, dead baby woodlice. As they wandered around and climbed the inside of the container, they found the holes, climbed out, and died. That culture eventually got overtaken by mites.


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## wolfeingtons

This is all good info. Have some giant canyon isos that have had a few babies but are breeding super slow. They all like to congregated on a piece of cork bark and seem like they don't ever move. Ill try some new tricks with them and see if it jump starts them.


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## Xylem

I use coffee filters under lids on all my bug jars. They work great. Thick enough to keep bugs in, thin enough to allow gas exchange.


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## Dcairelli

Do isopod containers need to be lidded? I recently met a guy who just keep his springtails unlidded and they seem to all stay in the tray.


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## Isopodlover

thane said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have some "power blue" (flowery blue) isopods originally purchased from another dendroboard member. I added them to my vivarium a couple months prior to adding frogs, and they were breeding well, but once the frogs went in they mostly all got eaten. So I'd like to raise some more in an external container.
> 
> I've already purchased everything, I just haven't put it together yet. Was hoping to get feedback first.
> 
> Container - I purchased a 32 quart sterilite gasket box, which has a foam lining around the lid that makes it air tight. I wanted one with a really good seal for fear of having all the little larvae crawl out from the crack in the lid.
> 
> Vents - I also got some no-see-um mesh to make some vents in the side. *Does anyone have any suggestion how big to make the vents?* Not sure if the bugs like a lot of airflow or what. I believe I'm supposed to keep it consistently moist so I'm thinking if I make the vents too big, the soil will dry out all the time.
> 
> Substrate - I have some peat moss, expanded glass aggregate (AKA "grow stones"), and some compost (comes from the city yard waste facility, so should not contain any cow manure). Was thinking of making a mix out of these, with the peat for moisture retention, compost for nutrients, and a smaller portion of grow stones to prevent clumping. My biggest question mark is whether I should use the compost or not, and if I do, should I consider sterilizing it to avoid introducing microbes?
> 
> Food - I've got some leaf mulch that I made by collecting some partially decomposed leaves, then rinsing, boiling, and drying them. I added some of this to the substrate in the vivarium to promote growth before I added the frogs. The reason for boiling was I didn't want to introduce any pathogens. I also added fish flakes, which they seemed to like. So was going to add fish flakes to the grow-out container too. And I read on here that isopods like wet cardboard, so was going to try and find some clean pieces to add. Might also consider buying some Repashy bug burger or morning wood.
> 
> That's all my thoughts. I'd appreciate any feedback anyone has to offer. *My main concerns are how big to make the vents, and whether adding compost is a good idea (if so, should I try to sterilize it first)? *
> 
> I also intend to do some additional research on here, and I'll have to do some trial and error to figure out how wet they like it and how often to feed them. But wasn't able to find much about ventilation or using compost.
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> Thane


You are going to want to make sure the soil is sterile and also the leaf litter I bake my soil and boil my leaf litter. also isopods don't have larvae so the chance of any isopod escaping unless the soil is to the rim is pretty slim. For ventilation I generally drill 3 holes on each side of the lid about the width of a piece of paracord and cover that with two layers of tulle a type of fabric that had lots of little holes like you would see on a frilly sket a little girl would wear. For substrate u use coconut fiber bedding with some organic compost that I have baked and always make sure to have a layer of leaf litter. Since there aren't many hardwood trees near me I use cottonwood and going kong orchid leaves I can find nearby. I normally also use forest moss in my containers to provide a moisture gradient and a nice hiding spot. I normally also use some cholla and prickly pear cactus skeletons for them to hide under. I don't feed mine cardboard for fear of chemicals in the manufacturing process I use fish flakes sparingly because I don't want to introduce mites bit I mainly feed them carrots and celery which I occasionally sprinkle with calcium and vitamin d3 suppliment.


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