# Takeing frogs from hawaii



## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

Is there any legal way to take frogs lizards and plants out of Hawaii


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm sure any NATIVE wildlife (what little is left) would be a definite no, but I'm interested to know if statutes would be any different for introduced stuff like auratus and Jackson's chameleons.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

I believe they are now considered endemic populations and cannot be removed.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

not sure what there current status is now as far as being collected, i know they were placed under protection 2 years ago.

Back then you needed to get a permit from the agricultural department and there was a quota of 4 per person. same with the Jackson\'s


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

Yeah that actually sounds about right to me. When I was on the big island the TSA guys got really pissed when I was climbing trees at the airport for day geckos. Apparently that ceases to be cute when you're in your 20's.


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## BlueRidge (Jun 12, 2010)

fleshfrombone said:


> Yeah that actually sounds about right to me. When I was on the big island the TSA guys got really pissed when I was climbing trees at the airport for day geckos. Apparently that ceases to be cute when you\'re in your 20\'s.


Lmao... my wife says she could see me doing that.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

JaredJ said:


> Lmao... my wife says she could see me doing that.


The next time somebody says "Aren't you a little old to be doing that?" I'll respond you are definitely too old to care. If climbing up trees and exploring to find neat critters is wrong I don't want to be right.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

it's not so much catching them as it is takeing them on the plane


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## earthfrog (May 18, 2008)

fleshfrombone said:


> The next time somebody says "Aren't you a little old to be doing that?" I'll respond you are definitely too old to care. If climbing up trees and exploring to find neat critters is wrong I don't want to be right.


I agree, I have been climbing trees in front of disapproving eyes all the way through high school and into the adult years...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

The regulations for the pdf are the same as the chameleons which are summed up here 
Laws regarding Jacksons chameleons? 

It can depend heavily on your carrier and the luggage inspectors. It would be easier to just ship them back to yourself the day you leave or ship them to someone you trust to accept the package. 

Ed


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

Ed said:


> The regulations for the pdf are the same as the chameleons which are summed up here
> Laws regarding Jacksons chameleons?
> 
> It can depend heavily on your carrier and the luggage inspectors. It would be easier to just ship them back to yourself the day you leave or ship them to someone you trust to accept the package.
> ...


This page states that "DLNR's Injurious Wildlife laws prohibit the export of all frogs" and the page you linked to seems to prohibit shipping, stating that "Hawaii does not allow Chameleons to leave the state except as hand carried animals. It is illegal to mail them. "


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

Tony said:


> This page states that "DLNR's Injurious Wildlife laws prohibit the export of all frogs" and the page you linked to seems to prohibit shipping, stating that "Hawaii does not allow Chameleons to leave the state except as hand carried animals. It is illegal to mail them. "


Hi Tony,

That is referring to breeding and exporting them to the mainland. I suspect a inquiry is going to be needed to clarify as to whether they can be collected and taken home. I know the regs about mailing were due to commercial collecting (and people who were making money off of this were also caught relocating animals to increase their breeding range and thus thier potential income earnings..) 


Ed


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## Tony (Oct 13, 2008)

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were a case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing, typical government agency.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

what about plants


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

vivbulider said:


> what about plants


I tried taking sugar cane home and they were not happy about that at all. I think you need some kind of phytosanitary permit or the like. Chuck should know better than anyone. Calling Manuran.... They sell little plants to take home at the airports.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

fleshfrombone said:


> I tried taking sugar cane home and they were not happy about that at all. I think you need some kind of phytosanitary permit or the like. Chuck should know better than anyone. Calling Manuran.... They sell little plants to take home at the airports.


what about hiding some minis and cuttings in the bag


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

vivbulider said:


> what about hiding some minis and cuttings in the bag


Well, that's called smuggling. I really wont comment further on that.


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## charlesbrooks (Oct 18, 2009)

fleshfrombone said:


> I tried taking sugar cane home and they were not happy about that at all. I think you need some kind of phytosanitary permit or the like. Chuck should know better than anyone. Calling Manuran.... They sell little plants to take home at the airports.


As a former TSA Screener, we're looking for anything that can be use to bring down a plane. We're not trained to ID flora, flauna, or the laws in wich this is grovern. As long as you're not a person of intrest, or you don't have any non-permited items listed on TSA.gov website the is bag is a go.
customs take it astep further by having trained inspectors in place to look for illegal drugs, large sums of moneys, and other smuggled contrabans.
If you stop was by TSA, for the sagarcane I'm thinking because of its mass in question.
This is not to say, you don't have some screeners that go beyond their line of training.


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

It should also be noted that chytrid is endemic there possibly arriving with the coquis. 

I simple call or e-mail to the Hawaiian version of Department of Natural Resources would answer all of the above questions as to what is and isn't legal.

Ed


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

charlesbrooks said:


> as a former TSA Screener, we're looking for anything that can be use to bring down a plane. We're not trained to ID flora or fauna. As long as you're not a person of intrest, or you don't have any non-permited items listed on TSA.gov website the is bag is a go.
> customs take it astep further by having trained inspectors in place to look for illegal drugs, large sums of moneys, and other smuggled contrabans.
> If you stop was by TSA, for the sagarcane I'm thinking because of its mass in question.


They asked us if we had any fruits, vegetables, or plant matter. I said yes I have some sugar cane. They asked me if I had a hard time reading and pointed at a sign depicting pineapples, coconuts, and bananas with a big red line through them. The sign said no unsealed fruits, nuts or vegetables allowed on the Tarmac. I told them no I have a hard time with stupid regulations (I am a chronic smart ass). They opened my bag, took it out and said they would need to inspect it to make sure there wasn't any fungus or insects in/on it. I had 30 minuted to have my butt on the plane so I said thanks guys, you can have it. This was before 9/11 mind you.


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## Dendro Dave (Aug 2, 2005)

fleshfrombone said:


> They asked us if we had any fruits, vegetables, or plant matter. I said yes I have some sugar cane. They asked me if I had a hard time reading and pointed at a sign depicting pineapples, coconuts, and bananas with a big red line through them. The sign said no unsealed fruits, nuts or vegetables allowed on the Tarmac. I told them no I have a hard time with stupid regulations (I am a chronic smart ass). They opened my bag, took it out and said they would need to inspect it to make sure there wasn't any fungus or insects in/on it. I had 30 minuted to have my butt on the plane so I said thanks guys, you can have it. This was before 9/11 mind you.


Hmm you got off lucky IMO....I did basically the same thing but they took me out back and beat the $%^* out of me...maybe it was the turban, and the Koran in my bag or the open Hawaiian shirt showing off my bling and man fur  ...Not sure but I never did find that gold filling they knocked out, and my copy of the Koran was returned in less then stellar shape ;(

JUST KIDDING people...though with all the xenophobia in this country now such a thing actually happening to some poor guy wouldn't surprise me ;(
BTW I'm white and Buddhist.


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## ridinshotgun (Nov 28, 2007)

charlesbrooks said:


> As a former TSA Screener, we're looking for anything that can be use to bring down a plane. We're not trained to ID flora, flauna, or the laws in wich this is grovern. As long as you're not a person of intrest, or you don't have any non-permited items listed on TSA.gov website the is bag is a go.
> customs take it astep further by having trained inspectors in place to look for illegal drugs, large sums of moneys, and other smuggled contrabans.
> If you stop was by TSA, for the sagarcane I'm thinking because of its mass in question.
> This is not to say, you don't have some screeners that go beyond their line of training.


TSA and CBP regs aren't the concern, it is USDA regs and there are USDA inspectors that do preclearance inspections of all US bound flights from Hawaii, PR and all US territories.

Sugar cane has various diseases in tropical climates that we don't want to be introduced to the mainland sugar cane producing areas in the south.

There are lots of bad things that they try their best to keep out of the continental US. Plants, plant diseases, insects and animals that don't exist here can cause mucho problems if introduced into the US.


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## TDK (Oct 6, 2007)

vivbulider said:


> what about plants


Years back, on my last trip to Hawaii, I packed seed pods from several different trees in my suitcase. My suitcase was inspected and the pods were noticed. The inspectors let me take the seeds but they had to be separated from the pod for fear insects may be inside. At the same time I had purchased an orchid and a Plumeria locally and this wasn't a problem.


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

ridinshotgun said:


> TSA and CBP regs aren't the concern, it is USDA regs and there are USDA inspectors that do preclearance inspections of all US bound flights from Hawaii, PR and all US territories.
> 
> Sugar cane has various diseases in tropical climates that we don't want to be introduced to the mainland sugar cane producing areas in the south.
> 
> There are lots of bad things that they try their best to keep out of the continental US. Plants, plant diseases, insects and animals that don't exist here can cause mucho problems if introduced into the US.


I didn't know all that. I guess those regulations aren't so stupid after all. Thanks for the heads up.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

I been tryign to get intouch with them down there, but they dont' seem to pick up the phone or even return messages, but Ed already posted the Info so there you, the cost of the permit 2 years ago was $10 not sure if the price went up or not.


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

I've done this multiple times from the Big Island.

You need to have the "Injurious Wildlife Export Permit". It will require you talking to the department of agriculture on your island, asking for a permit, getting it faxed to you, faxing it back filled out with your drivers license, then they will decide if its OK. You will be limited to 5 of each species and must bring them by hand onto the airplane. You cannot mail them under the stipulations of the permit. 

It takes about 2-4 weeks to go through all of this, as it has with me the 4 times I've done it. Everything out there works on something called "Island Time". Between that and the fact that you are not a native islander will mean that getting your permit will take time. If you intend on doing this, you should plan ahead and get your permit BEFORE you even leave stateside.

Of course the most interesting aspect of all of this that each time I went I never was asked about a permit by anyone ever.

I also was able to bring washed dirt free moss with no issues. This did not need a permit or phytosanitary certificate as it was not a fruit and it was soil-less. The ag inspectors just made sure it wasn't pot and said "move along".


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## crzsnwbdr (Sep 23, 2010)

VivariumWorks said:


> It takes about 2-4 weeks to go through all of this, as it has with me the 4 times I've done it. Everything out there works on something called *"Island Time"*. Between that and the fact that you are not a native islander will mean that getting your permit will take time. If you intend on doing this, you should plan ahead and get your permit BEFORE you even leave stateside.


This, is so funny, and so true. Although, we refer to it here as "Hawaiian Time".  I'd hate to point out the stereotypes here but that is one of them!

This applies not only to the time frame of doing something, but how timely we'll be at showing up to things/events/etc. That is of course, with the exception that there's food.  Or maybe that's just an Asian thing.. haha.


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## vivbulider (Jan 23, 2010)

i know what thats like living on the west cost


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## frogparty (Dec 27, 2007)

we call it "hippie time" here


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## fleshfrombone (Jun 15, 2008)

frogparty said:


> we call it "hippie time" here


LOL!!! He doesn't want anyone to know this, but he's probably the most motivated and industrious hippie out there. He usually gets more done in a day than I do all week lol.


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