# Large group tank - Azureus



## bmartin04983 (Oct 20, 2011)

As I get closer to my new tank coming in, I'm looking for some frogs to go in it. I've always liked and never had any Azureus. I understand they dont do well in groups. Are any of the other morphs, like Koetari or New River any different? 

The tank is 54x21x36. I want a good habitat for them and a happy place to live - stress free! I want what I would want if I were a frog.

Would either the Koetari or New River allow me to have around eight or ten frogs, assuming the tank is setup well, with well defined areas, without causing any stress? 

Thank you,
Brad


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

Large indeed! My calculations yield ~177 gallons, correct?

My understanding is that the tinctorius species females are aggressive/territorial in general, and this applies to all localities/morphs of the species.

The "rule of thumb" for tincs is that they need 5-10 gallons per frog -- but this is usually if keeping 3 or less frogs (usually a 1.1 or 2.1 group). I would imagine that if you are keeping several females you would need a lot more space/frog; let's say you would need 10-20G/frog. If 20G/frog you would be able to put about 8 frogs in there. If you were to attempt this, I believe it would be highly recommended to have a male heavy group (ex: 6.2, 5.3).

I have not attempted this personally, so maybe someone who has been successful with keeping tincs in groups can chime in.


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## bmartin04983 (Oct 20, 2011)

hypostatic said:


> My calculations yield ~177 gallons, correct?


I think that is about right, around 177 gallon. It's a custom build by Jason at Protean Terrarium (www.proteanterrarium.com). I'm very excited for it to come in so I can start building it! It will be the focal point of the living room, and I want to do it right. The build should be a lot of fun, but I want to pick the frogs that will go in it before I do the build though. 

I think I may end up with leucomelas in the tank instead of any tincs, but I was hopeful on the tincs. Even small tincs like the oyapock will be territorial, wont they? 

Brad


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

Assuming that vivarium is set up with a lot of visual barriers, multiple feeding stations, etc, I would not hesitate to introduce 10-12 froglets. Watch them closely as they grow up, and remove any that fail to thrive. I've had luck housing tinctorius in groups, but have more success breeding them in pairs. They'll breed in groups (I've witnessed 1.3 powder blues shove themselves into a coco hut!), but they tend to trample the eggs.


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## bmartin04983 (Oct 20, 2011)

zBrinks said:


> I would not hesitate to introduce 10-12 froglets. Watch them closely as they grow up, and remove any that fail to thrive.


Are the azureus excluded from this thought, or would that be ok too?


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## therizman2 (Jul 20, 2008)

IMO the azureus would be fine too, I have a group of 5 in a 65gallon tank and have minimal issues. Occassional wrestling, but they have been in there for quite a while now, all five are still healthy looking, etc. Just need to have the tank setup well for them.


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## bmartin04983 (Oct 20, 2011)

Anyone else doing large tanks with a group of azureus? Any advice?


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

zBrinks said:


> Assuming that vivarium is set up with a lot of visual barriers, multiple feeding stations, etc, I would not hesitate to introduce 10-12 froglets. Watch them closely as they grow up, and remove any that fail to thrive.


What about introducing adult frogs at the same time? Would the 10-12 froglets still be getting along as adults?



bmartin04983 said:


> Are the azureus excluded from this thought, or would that be ok too?


Azureus should be ok as well; they are the same species as the other tinctorius


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## bmartin04983 (Oct 20, 2011)

hypostatic said:


> What about introducing adult frogs at the same time? Would the 10-12 froglets still be getting along as adults?


Someone is wanting some more frogs in his tank!


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## hypostatic (Apr 25, 2011)

heh I'd love to, but they'd have to be some frogs that got bitten by radioactive spiders so that they could crawl upside down on the top of the viv and make use of that unused space so that it wouldn't be overcrowded haha


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

I know someone with 2.5 Azureus in a 90g. Little to no aggression. I think the trick is to do larger groups so that individual frogs can't get constantly bullied.


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## zBrinks (Jul 16, 2006)

It can be really problematic to introduce adult tinctorius to each other at times, and at other times seems to work perfectly fine. The larger the space provided, the more likely they will leave each other be.


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## randommind (Sep 14, 2010)

frogfreak said:


> I know someone with 2.5 Azureus in a 90g. Little to no aggression.


I'm gonna have to disagree....with 2 and a half frogs, there was definitely some aggression!


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## Redhead87xc (Jan 27, 2010)

bmartin04983 said:


> Someone is wanting some more frogs in his tank!


I think what he means is, is it okay to introduce a group of adult frogs and get the same results as raising a group of froglets together. Not introducing froglets and adults together.



hypostatic said:


> What about introducing adult frogs at the same time? Would the 10-12 froglets still be getting along as adults?


Typically when Tinc froglet are raised as froglets together all the way up to the adult stage they interact better. It is when you start to seperate them and introduce others that were not raised with them that you get aggression and different behavior. i.e. new male introduced to group of females. The females may become aggressive.


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## goku (Nov 11, 2009)

I am currently housing a 4.1 azureus group in a big enclosure, and there is no problem. I introduced 5 froglet-subadult animals at the same time and it worked very well from the beggining. When I had already a laying female, I tried to introduce an adult female to try a nice 4.2 group..it worked for a month aprox., and then I had to remove one female because agression was at last moment almost constant. In this moment, there was even agression from a female to other males!. After removing one lady, everything went good again.

Here there is a video of this short period of time when things worked with two females..






Like collegues already said, I think that problems mostly will come if you try to put together adult animals that they never met before, very specially females. I think if you make an attempt with a large group of froglets introduced at the same time, you have good chances of success!

greetings!


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## bryandarts (May 16, 2011)

Nice video!


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## JasonE (Feb 7, 2011)

As already stated, going with froglets gives you the best chance of avoiding problems. I've raised females together with no aggression. My biggest problem was egg eating. I would go with Zach's suggestion of 10 froglets. I would be prepared to thin them out as adults if you get a heavy ratio of females.


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## frogmanroth (May 23, 2006)

bmartin04983 said:


> As I get closer to my new tank coming in, I'm looking for some frogs to go in it. I've always liked and never had any Azureus. I understand they dont do well in groups. Are any of the other morphs, like Koetari or New River any different?
> 
> The tank is 54x21x36. I want a good habitat for them and a happy place to live - stress free! I want what I would want if I were a frog.
> 
> ...


 I have kept/raised many morphs of tincs and auratus in large groups. In way smaller tanks than yours with great success. Your best bet is to buy a group of azureus. The other frogs are very hard to find.



hypostatic said:


> Large indeed! My calculations yield ~177 gallons, correct?
> 
> My understanding is that the tinctorius species females are aggressive/territorial in general, and this applies to all localities/morphs of the species.
> 
> ...


 This is the crap that keeps the hobby down. Just like UVB doesn't go through screen, hello people reptile chameleon keepers have been using it through screen forever? Sorry I am venting, I am sick of people saying/advising people on old rule of thumb ideas. If you haven't done it, or seen it first hand, it's pretty much crap. 



JasonE said:


> As already stated, going with froglets gives you the best chance of avoiding problems. I've raised females together with no aggression. My biggest problem was egg eating. I would go with Zach's suggestion of 10 froglets. I would be prepared to thin them out as adults if you get a heavy ratio of females.


See this is good advice because he has had experience.


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## guylovesreef (May 3, 2012)

I am happy I found this thread, ive been mulling over buying 6 azureus froglets for my 75 to raise as a group. this thread kinda sold me.


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## frogfreak (Mar 4, 2009)

guylovesreef said:


> I am happy I found this thread, ive been mulling over buying 6 azureus froglets for my 75 to raise as a group. this thread kinda sold me.


Here's another for you. 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/breeding-eggs-tadpoles/78329-breeding-tinc-trios.html


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## guylovesreef (May 3, 2012)

that was quite a read


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