# vivarium with tree frogs and live fish!!



## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

i am now trying to get in to constructing my firs vivarium with live plants to house my green tree frogs (Hyla arborea)
i have 7 of them!


and i am considering building it big so i can have a large land area an also a big pool so i can house small fish.

i want to make a background with GS and driftwood 
and water fall that flows from the back wall in to a small pond on the land area..and then flows down to the large pool area that houses the small fish..

so that the frogs can avoid the large pool area if the wont to get a soak..

is like having a frog vivarium and an aquarium in 1 enclosure..


what do you thing?


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## salix (Mar 28, 2008)

That's called a paludarium.

There are lots of threads on here about them. I think they look really cool. Your best bet is to do lots of reading on the topic. I can't give any advice, because I have no experience with them.

Here's one to get you started.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/me...79-paludarium-construction-photo-journal.html

Good luck.


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

thnx very helpful!!!


if any more links exist plz post thes so i can get more info...

dose anyone here have a paludarium?

i want to see how they manage the building and the maintenance of it...


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## Deathkitten (Oct 20, 2008)

As far as constructions goes, google searching "paludarium construction" usually sheds enough light on the topic that you can get a pretty good idea and run with it. There are MANY MANY options available as far as how you want to separate your land/water area and based on your specific measurements, you usually won't have a problem making them apply to your tank. It's kinda hard to go into a lot of detail here since there are so many possibilities...

As far as maintenance goes, it's fairly easy. Maintain the water area as you would any other aquarium- water quality, temp, etc. Usually the easiest way to do this is with external filtration via a canister filter and/or a sump. Depending on how deep your water portion is, you can have an overflow box or skimmer. This could be inconspicuously incorporated into your land work and easily hidden away.This would feed into an area (which should still be easily accessed in case of blockage) that would contain your drainage pipe which would lead into a reservoir or sump (there are many ways to do this, pvc, hose and imagination, my friend). This pipe should contain a valve so that, in the event you need to shut the system off for maintenance, the entire water portion doesn't end up on your floor. From there, you can have the hose leading TO the canister filter or "in" hose (size of the filter is again depending on the amount of water you have, just like an aquarium) feed into the sump, and the "out" house leading back into the enclosure (usually as a water fall, depending on the gph of the filter however). So as the water flows back in, it will overflow into the skimmer, and back again- allowing you to set the exact height of your water level. Water temperature is also maintained externally by placing a submersible heater (with thermostat control) in the reservoir/sump so any water leaving the sump through the canister filter is already warmed. This will also help to keep the ambient temp and humidity in the pal. constant. Simply shut off the valve, shut off the system, and you're free to siphon/ clean filter/ whatever. 

The maintaining the land area is another, separate matter. What questions, exactly, did you have in regards to maintaining this area? 

So even though you are incorporating all of this into the same enclosure, knowledge of each portion individually is needed to keep the whole thing running- much of the reason why I have such a huge appreciation for them!! I feel like the true biologist in me gets to shine when I do all the research to set these up  

How much aquarium background do you have? I'll gladly go into more detail if need be. What kind of fish are you keeping? Hope this helps!

I'll be posting a journal of my pal. once it's done.  Being an intern and volunteer at the Shedd Aquarium has taught me quite a few tricks of the trade so to speak lol. Can't wait to work there once I graduate next december! *keeps fingers crossed*


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

thnx very much Deathkitten fore taking the time to reply and for explaining in such depth!!


currently i am on the studying faze of the constraction

i will go small on my first try.. just to see my mistakes and not to spend a lot of money on something that can may not look so good after all..


i am looking now to make a small aquarium i have in to a paludarium !


i will house in it small fish like tettras and neon or any other tiny fish i find!

and yo the land area i win plant moss (dont know the name) found it at my local florist shop


and some broms!
and other small indoor plants

will make a GS background with humus and drift wood and a small water fall

i will probably use and internal bio filter. small one and set it up so the out take is the water fall

i have a few Q about moss growth.. the moss i found is shipped live so i will install it ready .. but how will it grow ? will it need some kind of fertilizers ?

will it grow in just a small layer of coco?


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## Deathkitten (Oct 20, 2008)

it really depends on the type of moss. Most moss will do just fine if you put it somewhere with lots of moisture. I.E. Anywhere in a pdf viv that needs some accent  Some mosses like more shade, some like more light, some won't do well in areas where they would be in puddles, etc. Usually for mosses I stick with Java and Club mosses. There is Riccia too, which I'm not sure if it's the same as the aquatic riccia (which I have TONS of) so I'm testing that out. Usually no you won't need fertilizers for mosses. They really will just grow where you put them (again, depending on the specifics of the species). The only thing I can think of that would need ferts are orchids, and only certain ones at that (I'm pretty sure). IF you do acquire plants that need ferts, there are a lot of threads on there that deal with this topic and how to safely administer them so as not to harm your frogs. 

~Deathkitten


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

thnx!


i wills start my project in a few days and try to document it and post pic..

also i found at my local pet store some baby salamanders forgot the name..

the ore not the big ones like firebellys bus one kind of the smaller ones..


will it be safe for my fish and the tree frogs if i put 1 or 2 in my paludarium?

i want to have also small shrimps ..


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

salamanders like to stay more on land and like to hide alot you might not see them much so i would say that they would not mess with the the fish any. imo i would put newts in the tank, newts stay in the water almost all of the time and you would be able to see them. i dont think that newts would bother fish either, i would just stick with chinese fire belly newts Cynops orientalis, because they stay small. also make sure you have a way for the newts to climb out of the water.


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

well after looking around online i found a cite talking about newts eating fish and other newts and everything so what i said above may not be a good idea lol. but i have had 2 chinese fire belly newts for about a year or so now and at one time i had them in a tank with dwarf puffer fish for a few months and didnt have a problem with the newts eating the fish. guess you could try it, if you decide to go with newts.


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

i think am going to try it..

what to the usually feed salamanders and newts ?


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## slowfoot (Sep 23, 2008)

Try here for information on newts and salamanders: Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum

You should probably not mix them with anything - pretty much every available species of newt prefers cold water, and they will try to eat anything that moves.


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

i feed my newts, newt bite pellet things. they sale them at just about any pet store that sales newts. as for salamanders they eat worms and small bugs and stuff. i would find out what kind of salamander you will be getting then search in on the web to find out exactly how to keep them and what they eat.


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

thnx guys!!

i will keep you informed


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

so today i started the constraction of my firs project..


hope it looks good


am no a beginner in terrarium contraction at all..

i constructed 3 terrariums before and i know a thing o two 

here are the first step of my project!!







glued the plexi glass in place!





am going to bend the edges facing the water area..



here are the plants i am going to have inside 










i dont know what kind of moss this is..

so if anyone knows plz tell me and how to make it grow and take over the paludarium..


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

if you are going to build the tank that way with the plexi glass separating the land from the water i would make a drainage layer with pea gravel or whatever at least a few inches deep and i would have a siphon hose ran to the bottom that way when you water your plants if too much water gets down in the bottom you will be able to siphon it out. just an idea i would do. good luck.


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

yeah am going to to something like that..

i will pass a small tube and hide it behind the background so i can drain the excess water!!


going to post some more fotos today..

i thought i will by some fertilizers in the form of small pills form the aquastore 

and but them benith the moss and in the roots of my plants so the can have nutritious soil to grow upon


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

and some thing i forgot ..


should i use some special lighting ?


for the plants to grow?

but not to harm my frogs..


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

come one guys!!

i need help now *not later*!!


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

i rest my case ...

no help what so ever!!


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## Deathkitten (Oct 20, 2008)

With a setup like that you can use aquarium lights. The same lights you would use to grow plants in your aquarium also work in this case as well. These lights shouldn't harm your frogs. Just make sure to get a glass lid to put on top, and put the aquarium lights on top of the glass lid.

1) keeps the humidity in, 2) insures there are no escapees.

No idea on that moss, tho... :/ Btw,



no_one said:


> i rest my case ...
> 
> no help what so ever!!


How many people do you know that are up at 2,7, or 10am and available to answer posts on forums? If they're not SLEEPING they're at WORK at these hours... I understand your sense of urgency, but that's a little harsh...


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## scream-aim-fire (Mar 1, 2008)

above my 29gal viv i have 2- 24inch plant grow bulbs. 2- 18 inch bulbs would probly be plenty for your 10gal tank.


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

thnx 

i but the GS background today and made a wooden lid for my paludarium
i also run the wires for the water pump so tomorrow 

am going to carve the GS and apply silicon with cocofiber ..


stay tuned!

pic update tomorrow!!


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## reptileink (May 1, 2005)

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/29622-remembering-old-days.html

there is my one and only Paludarium built(hope to change that soon) 

The whole bottom half is about 8" of water, and it housed some tetras and a cory cat. They actually could swim underneath the entire land area. It was pretty cool.

Housed some Azureas in there and also Leucs(not at the same time)


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

reptileink said:


> http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/29622-remembering-old-days.html
> 
> there is my one and only Paludarium built(hope to change that soon)
> 
> ...



sweet


very small water area though.. cant really see it well..


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

pic update on my progress!!































tomorrow am going to cover up the rest of the background let it set clean the tank and try to fill the water area and check for leaks!


maybe i will also but the plants in ..


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

hey guys.. what lamp should i use fore optimal growth of my plants and not to damage my forgs?


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## no_one (Oct 14, 2008)

i almost finished today

here are some pics


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