# Are Citronella Tincs hard to find?



## Domenic (May 22, 2010)

Hi all! I'm a new member to this forum, and very glad to have found this place. I currently own 3 tadpoles (froglets now) but they are not dart frogs. I've been so amazed by these guys that I started looking into other frog species. A dart frog expert, and friend of mine starting discussing dart frogs with me. When I found out they could be pets, and that they wouldn't kill me,  I knew I had to have a pair. 

I currently own and breed finches, so the space I have is limited, and I will most likely only have a ten gallon tank. I am pretty certain that I only want one pair (not a group), and I want to get a pair that I will always enjoy, not just whatever's easiest. Right now I'm really liking citronella tincs for the colors and care difficulty.

Can someone tell me how much a fairly priced pair of citronella tincs would cost? Are they difficult to find? Difficult to breed (just for enjoyment and as a hobby)? Can a pair be kept in a ten gallon tank?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hey, I have a male and female together right now in a 10g. A 10g is good for a pair. They are pretty popular, very liked also. I would say they run about $45 each for froglets. Azureus are very cool also, very good for begginers also. Just get something you want, not what people want you to get. And welcome to the board.


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

hey, welcome to the hobby. Cits are not rare to find but pairs can be a lil difficult to find. a pair could live in a ten gallon given the proper set-up and i would sau rough cost would be between 250-400 given if they are proven or not. I do have some little ones if you are interested for 60 each. They are not to difficult to breed just must be fat and healthy and mother nature takes care of the rest for the most part. I use a coco hut and a petri dish under it for the eggs to be laid in.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah use the coco hut and petri dish. If you are going to want to breed them, then you might want to read up on how to care for the eggs and stuff a little bit.


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## Domenic (May 22, 2010)

Yeah I really love the azureus too. How does the azureus compare in price to the citronellas? I know that azureus's are pretty much the same frog as tincs, does that mean their care is about the same as well?

Also, it's a possibility that I may get a twenty gallon, but I read somewhere that too large of tanks discourage breeding because the frogs may spend a lot of time away from eachother. Is this true?


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

heatfreakk3 said:


> Hey, I have a male and female together right now in a 10g. A 10g is good for a pair.



A 10 gallon tank is kinda tight for a pair, especially for suck large frogs, Cits are the biggest of all tinct morphs so providing them with a little more space would be better, a 20 gallon woudl be better suited.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Yeah, Julio, it really is a little tight. The female is pretty young right now though, I will probably pretty soon put em in a 20g. My Azureus pair is in a 20g right now. As for you Domenic, Azureus actually just got moved into the Tinc group. Their care is very easy. Azureus are pretty cheap, they are a very popular frog, you can find them from about any breeder. A 20g would be perfect for some Azureus, I have my pair in a 20g right now, they have been together only about a month in there and have already produced about 6-7 good clutches!


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## Domenic (May 22, 2010)

Another novice question I had was, what do you do with the babies? My finches breed all the time but I unfortunately have a hard time selling the chicks sometimes. Obviously you can't sell the frogs in pairs, and in the finch community birds that aren't sold in pairs are generally 10x harder to sell. I'm basically asking, is there a good market for solo dart frogs?

I really like the azureus a lot, I'm going to do some more research on them. Are they small enough for a ten gallon?


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Umm, Azureus get pretty big, some people say its okay, some say its too small. As for selling them, usually people sell them as froglets, and if they have like a lot, they might sell the frogs in like discount groups.


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## rcteem (Mar 24, 2009)

i agree with chris


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Us Chriss' think alike


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Julio said:


> A 10 gallon tank is kinda tight for a pair, especially for suck large frogs, Cits are the biggest of all tinct morphs so providing them with a little more space would be better, a 20 gallon woudl be better suited.


I have a couple Mint Terribs in my 10gal and they do fine. Sure, many people have come to the conclusion that the more space you give the "happier" they will be to breed, which I support, but 10gal tanks are fine to support really a pair of any frogs.


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## Julio (Oct 8, 2007)

yeah they will bred in a 10 gallon, but i bet you they woudl breed better in a 20 gallon, terribilis are way too big of a frog to be in a 10 gallon just like most tincts.


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## poison beauties (Mar 1, 2010)

§lipperhead said:


> I have a couple Mint Terribs in my 10gal and they do fine. Sure, many people have come to the conclusion that the more space you give the "happier" they will be to breed, which I support, but 10gal tanks are fine to support really a pair of any frogs.


I wouldn't say that. Could you breed a pair of Bull Frogs in a ten gallon? I would think that the only reason one would give such large frogs such a small tank is greed. The want to pack as many frogs in a room as possible. Every pair of dart frogs I own are housed in 55 gallons including reticulatus and I would bet that the frogs all out health and breeding habits are much better than any in a ten gallon. There is not really any reason for a ten gallon as a breeding tank. The cost of a tank double or even triple that size is still less than what those frogs are worth. I would bet they would be better off in a plastic toat twice the size of tha ten gallon yet cheaper and would still be better off.
Just my two cents.
Michael


> Dont Be A Hybridiot!


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## Alpha Pro Breeders (Oct 13, 2008)

I breed mine in a 20 long tank and they always give me nice large clutches. Mine are one of the largest tincs I own.



Julio said:


> yeah they will bred in a 10 gallon, but i bet you they woudl breed better in a 20 gallon, terribilis are way too big of a frog to be in a 10 gallon just like most tincts.


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## Domenic (May 22, 2010)

Thanks guys for the help. I still have not decided on the species I would like yet, I've even looked into other species of frog but always end up looking at darts again. I think a 20 gallon might be a little to large for the place I want to put the tank, but I haven't done exact dimensions yet, so we shall see.

Also, is it true that if you touch a dart frog with an open wound you could become ill? Is this just a myth? I've been researching and there is occasionally a fool who knows nothing that will say dumb things, I'm just wondering if this was a fool or not.


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## Baltimore Bryan (Sep 6, 2006)

It's true for frogs that are poisonous like the ones in the wild. However, frogs get their poison from insects in their natural diet, and without their wild diet they don't gain the poison. So frogs that have been in captivity do not contain poison (at least not enough to hurt you) since they don't eat those certain bugs from their native habitat. I know one person who used extra caution when dealing with P. terribilis and P. bicolor since those are naturally the most dangerous. However, most others (leucs, auratus, tincs, thumbs, etc.) do not present any potential risk. Don't be intimidated, you won't die from your frogs or anything crazy like that.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

poison beauties said:


> I wouldn't say that. Could you breed a pair of Bull Frogs in a ten gallon? Michael


Sorry, meant to clarify - A pair of DART frogs would do fine in a ten gallon fine. But I don't think the person is greedy who does that. Some people are tight in space available or money. Yes, I fully support the bigger the better setup.


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## heatfreakk3 (Oct 15, 2008)

Okay guys I really think we should not take the thread over by debating over 10g tanks. This guy posted this for info. Lets try and stay on topic lol


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## inflight (Jun 12, 2007)

Domenic said:


> Another novice question I had was, what do you do with the babies? My finches breed all the time but I unfortunately have a hard time selling the chicks sometimes. Obviously you can't sell the frogs in pairs, and in the finch community birds that aren't sold in pairs are generally 10x harder to sell. I'm basically asking, is there a good market for solo dart frogs?
> 
> I really like the azureus a lot, I'm going to do some more research on them. Are they small enough for a ten gallon?


A good rule of thumb is buy what you like....The market for them may be "good" now, but when you finally have froglets, someone else may be selling them dirt cheap! So, buy what you like in case you get stuck with a lot.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

If you only have room for a 10gal for the pair I wouldn`t collect eggs if I were u. The housing of the adults is small space compared to tadpoles and froglets till they are big enough to sell. For those(tads and froglets/juvis) you would need 5-10 times the space of the adults.



Domenic said:


> Hi all! I'm a new member to this forum, and very glad to have found this place. I currently own 3 tadpoles (froglets now) but they are not dart frogs. I've been so amazed by these guys that I started looking into other frog species. A dart frog expert, and friend of mine starting discussing dart frogs with me. When I found out they could be pets, and that they wouldn't kill me,  I knew I had to have a pair.
> 
> I currently own and breed finches, so the space I have is limited, and I will most likely only have a ten gallon tank. I am pretty certain that I only want one pair (not a group), and I want to get a pair that I will always enjoy, not just whatever's easiest. Right now I'm really liking citronella tincs for the colors and care difficulty.
> 
> Can someone tell me how much a fairly priced pair of citronella tincs would cost? Are they difficult to find? Difficult to breed (just for enjoyment and as a hobby)? Can a pair be kept in a ten gallon tank?


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## Domenic (May 22, 2010)

I'm a newbie at this so please understand my ignorance... I thought tadpoles were raised in separate jugs or cups? Once they are froglets can't they be placed in a ten gallon tank all together? I have the room for a seperate ten gallon tank and I would sell/rehome them as froglets.


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## jeffr (May 15, 2009)

Domenic said:


> I'm a newbie at this so please understand my ignorance... I thought tadpoles were raised in separate jugs or cups? Once they are froglets can't they be placed in a ten gallon tank all together? I have the room for a seperate ten gallon tank and I would sell/rehome them as froglets.


You can only put so many in a 10 gallon tank


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

and cups add up. If they produce 5-10 a week and they take over 8 weeks to morph that`s 40-80 cups and 40-80 froglets. I`d recommend no more than 10/10gal tank. They are fragile till they are over 8 weeks old and shouldn`t be shipped before then.


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## chesney (Jan 18, 2007)

Just a thought as you are limited to a 10g tank for space, why not try a dwarf Tinc? I also use 20g or larger for ALL of my Tinc pairs except the smaller morphs such as Lorenzo, Bakhuis, and Oyapock.

Also, some of these guys can be super heavy breeders. I regularly sell tads because my load gets too much for me to handle on my own. The last time I sold tads I had 60-80 from each morph. The tads do not morph out at the same time and you don't want to put newly morphed froglets in the same tank with 2 week+ froglets as they may compete with them for food. Hope this helps


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## Domenic (May 22, 2010)

That's an interesting proposition. I've heard of dwarf tincs but I haven't seen a pic of them or read any caresheets on them. Anyone care to share a link?


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## Mikembo (Jan 26, 2009)

The "Dwarf" Tincs care are the same as any other Tinc. Supposedlly Oyapock are a more "Delicate" Tinc, I haven't noticed anything diffrent with my Oyapock pairs compared to any other one of my Tincs......... 

-Mike-


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## JoshK (Jan 5, 2009)

I agree 10g is a little small for any pair, but I also agree dwarfs would be the best bet if you insist of sticking with a 10g. Here are a pic of my Bakhuis Mountain pair. I keep them in an 18" exo but the have a large water feature so I guess they don't have much more floorspace than a 10g would. They are extremely bold and always visible, even out of breeding season.


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Lorenzos would be a good option as well! I forget his name, but another member also got a handful of Lorenzos and they are treating him quite well! They are also "dwarf" Tincs.


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## tclipse (Sep 19, 2009)

Domenic said:


> Another novice question I had was, what do you do with the babies? My finches breed all the time but I unfortunately have a hard time selling the chicks sometimes. Obviously you can't sell the frogs in pairs, and in the finch community birds that aren't sold in pairs are generally 10x harder to sell. I'm basically asking, is there a good market for solo dart frogs?
> 
> I really like the azureus a lot, I'm going to do some more research on them. Are they small enough for a ten gallon?


Oh finches.. when I worked at Petsmart a while back, those things would lay practically daily, especially the societies. It was ridiculous.

Actually, you can sell frogs in either probable or proven pairs, you just have to grow them up to be adults. They're worth much more as proven pairs than as single adults. 



heatfreakk3 said:


> Umm, Azureus get pretty big, some people say its okay, some say its too small. As for selling them, usually people sell them as froglets, and if they have like a lot, they might sell the frogs in like discount groups.


What he said. I'd put them in a 20G as adults. A 10 would definitely be fine for two azurueus froglets though, which would give you more than half a year to make room for a 20G.


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## Domenic (May 22, 2010)

The thing I'm worried about is that, since I only want one pair, I will not be able to sell them in pairs since the offspring will all be related. In that respect I will have to sell them singly. 

How many varieties of dwarf tincs are there? I've definitely heard of lorenzos, but I had no idea they were dwarfs. What other varieties are dwarfs?

I've also been looking into thumbnails. I know they are a little difficult for newbies, but since I only plan on having one pair (rather than collecting frogs over time) I would rather have a "more difficult" species than just the easiest. A person here in Vegas has Variabilis, which are my favorite thumbs. He told me that they are easy to care for as long as your setup is right before you get them. What do you guys think?


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Since when were they difficult? Vents/ Imis would be a good start, never had variabilis before so I couldn't say much about them. Nominal Imis look near identical to variabilis, and cheaper so you may get more for your buck if you go that route. All depends on your budget/ wants.


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## inflight (Jun 12, 2007)

I agree that variabilis are great! I have 2 of them, I think both females. They are not my boldest frogs though. Maybe it's my setup or maybe they are just shy. I was told once you get a pair to start breeding, then they are a bit more bold and can be seen frequently.
My tarapoto and varadero are my boldest thumbs.


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

Domenic said:


> The thing I'm worried about is that, since I only want one pair, I will not be able to sell them in pairs since the offspring will all be related. In that respect I will have to sell them singly.


As far as I'm aware, inbreeding doesn't cause problems in amphibians, confirmed by the article below, taken from:
http://http://www.azdr.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=44



> How concerned should I be about inbreeding my animals?
> 
> There are many different opinions out there on this question. You should ask as many experienced breeders as you can and then make your own opinion. When we began breeding dart frogs it was widely believed in the American community that inbreeding should be avoided at all costs. People sought out supposidly unrelated bloodlines whenever possible. We heard that this was not a major concern in the European community, and perhaps when it was learned why, attitudes began to change on this issue. Many Dart Frogs can appear identical to each other and be called the same thing (in fact they are the same morphs) and yet they may have come from geographically different populations when collected. By crossing those bloodlines we are then producing a bloodline that does not exist in the native populations. So many breeders now will not breed a group of frogs that they know where imported or collected in the past from a particular location with any others that were not from the same importation or collection. Inbreeding does produce defectives, but surprisingly not as many as you would think in amphibians.


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## Mapp (May 1, 2010)

But if someone disagrees, feel free to correct me. 
I'm a newbie too.


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