# First Viv. Need input. (Pic heavy)



## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey everyone! I posted a while back about turning a sunglass case into a viv for dart frogs, ended up using it for chameleons which worked out great! Now it's time I got cracking on my first viv. I started with a REAL beat up 55 front hex tank I got off CL for dirt cheap.








as you can see it had a HUGE crack in the bottom. I had my buddy cut me two sheets of glass the same size as the bottom and fixed it up nice. I didn't take any progress pictures of the fix, I was too excited to get it all done. I just sandwiched the two new sheets over the old broken one and sealed it into place. Water tested it with 55 gallons for about a week... No leak. 

Next I built my false bottom, laid out my drift wood and cork bark. Then sprayed some expansion foam about to keep everything in place.
























Sadly I got ahead of myself again and didn't take any shots of me rigging up the water feature, pressing all the the peat on, or even doing up the clay background. But here is where I'm at as of 15 mins ago.
































I'll be shooting a video later tonight as soon as my phone is charged again. Please let me know what you think.


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## KingSnake9 (Jul 14, 2011)

Looks really nice but dosen't look like that much ground space


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

You're planning on putting darts in there? I agree that it looks like there's hardly any floor space.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

That was the plan, to do darts. You really think? Looking at the pictures it does make it look like there is a lot more water then there really is. The main landmass is aprox. 9inches deep by 2 feet long. But There are two ways I could make more floor space. I just figured with it being a 55, its got more ground space then the 20's I'm seeing. But I could fill in these two areas with gravel, then substrate to create a much much larger land mass.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

I agree. Fill the water space in with LECA and cover it with a screen. Then use more substrate. The frogs need more floor space. You can keep a puddle but there should be more landmass.


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Yeah its probably best to fill in most of the water area; but you could leave a puddle if you wanted. Darts won't utilize the water feature at all, and with a 55 you could get a nice group in there. You wouldn't be able to do that currently.

Were you hoping to put something in the water?


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

awesome thanks guys! I'll grab some LECA like mordoria suggested and fill in a lot of the water. Wish I posted my progress sooner so I could of saved myself the trouble lol. Where's the best place to get LECA from?


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

There are sponsors (Josh's frogs, Black Jungle,New England Herpetoculture) on the board who sell Leca or Hydroton or Terra-Lite. Most hydroponic stores sell it too. Youll get a better deal the more you buy. Shipping might kill you. 
Its better anyway. Dealing with the water can be a pain in the butt. You'll be able to fit more plants in and the frogs will have more room.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

I have a bag of that substrate they sell at petsmart. the hydroballs that im pretty sure cost entirely too much. same stuff?


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Not sure what's at petsmart, buy hydroton is expanded clay, so if it says that anywhere on the bag its the same stuff!


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## fieldnstream (Sep 11, 2009)

The hydroballs are essentially the same, just smaller and darker (and waaaay more expensive). You should be able to get enough LECA to fill that in for around $25, while doing it with hydroballs will be more like $50, probably more. I've had problems with the hydroballs breaking down into sludge, but never had that happen with LECA.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks guys, Ill order them tonight and post an update as soon as they get in.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

did a little work. Please let me know what you'll think now.
left side








middle








right side








full setup


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

That's looking much better! 

You should pull those 3 yellow leaves off the pothos on the left side, they won't recover and the plant will be better off with em picked off


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

snipped! Anything else you guys recommend I do? I just ordered some creeping fig clippings today, they are being shipped Monday. I have a small brom bud I got off a brom that was in my mall. Any suggestions will help.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Add about 200 more plants, and your set  But really, you need more than ficus pumila. Broms, ferns, moss, etc. Looked much better with bigger land mass, and oh boy, I wish you didn't cut the pothos leaves off  My pothos turned yellow, and after a few days under the light, just fine! 1 leave died, but it was upside down lol!


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

i ended up pulling the entire thing out and replaced it with a fresh vine. Along with a few other pothos vines around. looks real nice. I gotta buy a ton of plants. I have some java too, where is the best place to put that?


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

decided to take off the old background and replaced it with a fresh new one, I used some of my sculpting skills to make it a lot more natural.








Also picked up some plants today also. Cant wait to get them in.








Found a ton of oak leaves.








Also tested out my fogger.


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## BethInAK (Jul 12, 2011)

new background looks NICE!


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

if the fogger sits in the water feature, it needs to go. they are prone to electrical shock hazards, and create fog by vibrating the water at high frequencies which if a frog came in contact with, i would imagine, could be a serious issue.

most people with foggers use a similar fogging device except that its encased in a unit outside the viv and it has a fan that pushes fog through a tube and into the tank where the frogs have NO chance of getting to the actual ultrasonic unit. the vicks/ KAZ ultrasonic "cool mist" humidifiers are commonly used. i have 3 and they work decently for the $8 a piece i spent on them. 

your tank is looking good. im glad you took the advice and filled in as much of your water feature as you did. the frogs will be much happier. also the background looks very well made for a first dart tank. keep up the good work!

james


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

kickedinthevader said:


> Found a ton of oak leaves.


your going to want the already dead crunchy stuff. 

you can clean them in water and throw them in the microwave (dead leaves) with a little water until the water boils off.

james


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Thanks a lot for the info about the fogger! Ill take that out now. James, I saw you were selling locally picked moss. I posted a tread on moss in the plants section but no one posted on it. Think you could give me some advise?


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

james67 said:


> your going to want the already dead crunchy stuff.
> 
> you can clean them in water and throw them in the microwave (dead leaves) with a little water until the water boils off.
> 
> james


Already started nuking them =D


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

Man, this viv looks really good so far. Can't wait to see more updates. The background looks awesome! I am feeling intimidated about starting my background in my 29 g build you saw. Hope mine turns out as nice as yours. Keep it up, let's see some planting


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

kickedinthevader said:


> Thanks a lot for the info about the fogger! Ill take that out now. James, I saw you were selling locally picked moss. I posted a tread on moss in the plants section but no one posted on it. Think you could give me some advise?


i dont know where you live, but i collect my moss in a coastal subtropical area. its a type which i know to be particularly well suited to use in a vivarium.

not all wild moss will work. 

james

PMd you about cleaning moss


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

james67 said:


> i dont know where you live, but i collect my moss in a coastal subtropical area. its a type which i know to be particularly well suited to use in a vivarium.
> 
> not all wild moss will work.
> 
> ...


Thanks again James, I found out that my moss is common Irish moss, which I hear isn't that great in a viv setting. So. Looks like ill be trashing the moss I found. I love the look of the spiky moss grimm used. Might try and find some of that. Anyone know of any really nice mosses? I have java that I just added inside the water, how does that do on land?


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

kickedinthevader said:


> Thanks again James, I found out that my moss is common Irish moss, which I hear isn't that great in a viv setting. So. Looks like ill be trashing the moss I found. I love the look of the spiky moss grimm used. Might try and find some of that. Anyone know of any really nice mosses? I have java that I just added inside the water, how does that do on land?


A lot of people use java moss on land. It does well in the humid environment of a viv.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Gave the tank a day for the clay to get used to its new home before doing anything else to it. but lastnight I went to town and planted it all up. This what it looks like right now.








As always, your thoughts help me make it a better viv!


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

Looks great man! Nice work. I don't know much about dart frogs like all the experts here but I would think you could add some more plants in. I know they say to leave some space for the plants to grow but I think you could still fit more in at this point. Just my opinion, but otherwise it looks awesome


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

i got some creeping fig and some "air plant" leaves today. so it looks a little more full. Also added some more java moss about. Working on a circulation system now. I need to hit up micro center to pick up some little fans.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

So I added some creeping fig and some more ivy. Here is where it's at so far.









While it is growing in, I'm thinking about my next project. I have a 55g tank, a 29g tank, two 20 highs, a 75 and a 40 breeder, and lastly a 110 extra high. Which should I start on?


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

Looks great! I think the plants will grow in nicely.

Next project for you....bigger is better! But more expensive  I think the tall one sounds awesome. I wish I had a really talk tank. They are MUCH better for paludariums (and vivs look nice too when they are tall)


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

kickedinthevader said:


> So I added some creeping fig and some more ivy. Here is where it's at so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice tank man. I think you shouldn't start a tank. Instead, give me your 2-20Hs, your 75, your 40, and your 110. i'll take good care of em!


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Haha no can do buddy! Check CL tho, I got all these for about 50 bucks total. 1$ a gallon, Psht. Way too much.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

kickedinthevader said:


> Haha no can do buddy! Check CL tho, I got all these for about 50 bucks total. 1$ a gallon, Psht. Way too much.


Dang, nice tank hunting. I paid 20$ for my 20 long and 12$ for my 20H. I saw a free 600g with a small crack in the back (won't hold water, but for a viv it's great) but my GF said no way. Was ssoooo pissed!


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

600g?! GF or not I would of grabbed that up! Lol

So I was riding my bike around town and rode by a large magnolia, So I snatched up some leaves for leaf litter!


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

kickedinthevader said:


> 600g?! GF or not I would of grabbed that up! Lol
> 
> So I was riding my bike around town and rode by a large magnolia, So I snatched up some leaves for leaf litter!


again, you need DEAD leaves.

james


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## wayne scott (Oct 23, 2010)

I would fill the water in too, dart frogs really aren't swimmers. although you can put a dish in the viv for them to soak in from time to time.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

james67 said:


> again, you need DEAD leaves.
> 
> james


yes sir I know. But leaves have to be alive before they can be dead. And it's cheaper to pick them. Then bake them. Then it is to pay someone to ship me dead ones... We talked about this back with the oak leaves. 



wayne scott said:


> I would fill the water in too, dart frogs really aren't swimmers. although you can put a dish in the viv for them to soak in from time to time.


I filled in a lot of the water already. the water you see is VERY VERY shallow. I'v seen vivs half the size of mine with twice the water.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

ok, so i think your misunderstanding me.

leaves get old, and they become dry (on the tree). once the leaves have been slowly dried by the sun and air they then fall off the tree. 

what i'm suggesting you do, is pick up these dead leaves from the ground. 

these will be the magnolia or oak leaves we all appreciate for their longevity in our tanks. this is due in part to their curing process (for lack of a better term) which leads to them eventually falling from the tree. these are cleaned, by chemical means, or heated so that any potentially hazardous organisms are killed. its also possible to simply keep the leaves DRY for an extended period of time.

anyway, hope that helps clear that up. i think i may have been unclear in my previous responses
james


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

james67 said:


> ok, so i think your misunderstanding me.
> 
> leaves get old, and they become dry (on the tree). once the leaves have been slowly dried by the sun and air they then fall off the tree.
> 
> ...


Ahh I see what you are saying! My bad, I must of just misunderstood what you were saying earlier about microwaving them. I had read a thread somewhere saying you could bake live leaves to use for leaf litter, Guess not... damn.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

they just dont last as long IME.

and you might check that thread again. i think it may have been a discussion on how best to "disinfect" leaves (collected from the ground). everyone has their own needs as far as feeling secure putting objects found outside in their vivs, and there are a number of methods people commonly use.

james

also, i dont intend to come off as a d_ck, its hard to display the way im thinking it, with text.  anyway, i glad we're on the same page here, and you seem to be off to a really great start with your viv! keep it up.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

james67 said:


> they just dont last as long IME.
> 
> and you might check that thread again. i think it may have been a discussion on how best to "disinfect" leaves (collected from the ground). everyone has their own needs as far as feeling secure putting objects found outside in their vivs, and there are a number of methods people commonly use.
> 
> ...


Thanks man. And don't worry you aren't coming off as a d_ick at all, I know how it is. Plus you have a lot more time in this hobby then I, so you would know much better then I would, Thanks for all the advise. I wish other people were as involved in new comers as much as you are.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Strange question. I was wonder if there would be any ill effect if I put in a few fire belly toads till I finish my fire belly enclosure?


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm confused, this tank will be for darts, correct? Fire bellied toads come from a entirely different place than I think any dart frog, so a pathogen problem will occur. Maybe Ed can chime in, i've learned a lot about putting something in a tank, then adding something different. Unless you bake the tank at a few hundred degrees after you put the fired bellies in, then you will have to only have fire bellies.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Yeah I realized it was a dumb question after I asked it. I made a different enclosure as a temp one till I get my 55 setup.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Uploaded a video!


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Looks good dude; much better than day 1! When are you thinking about adding frogs? It looks like you have a few leaf cuttings spread around the substrate...it might be difficult to keep them uncovered once you add a few inches of leaf litter. I know you mentioned you had a few empty tanks sitting around, one of those could work great as a plant grow-out tank until you convert it to something else


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

hoping to get some frogs later this month, or next. Trying to find a breeder around the Philadelphia area. And I just have them in there to start them growing, I have a grow tank being setup right now =D


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

Nice well then you're a step ahead of me!


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## erik s (Apr 12, 2010)

kickedinthevader said:


> Uploaded a video!
> Poison Dart Frog Vivarium #1 - YouTube


Nice STAR WARS sound effects in the background!!! LOL LOL


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Haha right? It was on spike and so I couldn't help but watch. I'm a HUGE Star Wars nut!


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Very nice tank man!


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## vivlover10 (Oct 10, 2010)

Very nice first tank! 

First I heard star wars and then you had the mighty morphan power rangers thing sound come on.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

I see you passed on those oak leaves.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

thanks everyone! I am very happy with it. Specially because it's the first time I'v done a tank like this before. And I didn't ditch the oak leaves. I got some dead ones and mixed it in the substrate. Also ordered some magnolia leaves. So I will do the leaf litter with that and some live oak also.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Not sure how I forgot to mention this. But I did add a way to do water changes real easy. 








I had added some egg create to the corner to leave a space for a tube.









EDIT:

Also I was wondering, with the way my tank is set up. What kind of darts would be best??


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

does anyone have any advise as to which would be best for this sort of setup?


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

make sure you completely seal that hole on the corner. it will quickly become a PDF death trap.

james


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey guys. Been a while. Been letting everything grow out, Still haven't gotten frogs. I decided to take a close look at the tank before I get the frogs. And I came across something that worried me a little. I'm not entirely sure what it is I am looking at. 








now you can see the white hair like things growing... Any suggestions on what it might be, or if it's even an issue.


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## jpstod (Sep 8, 2005)

james67 said:


> again, you need DEAD leaves.
> 
> james


Why do you say that?

Green Leaves last longer and provide more nutrients when breaking down


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

So you are saying live leaves are okay for leaf litter? 

And any idea what is growing in my water feature?


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

The leaves I got are growing nice in my grow tank.









Also started a small grow tank for some mushrooms. Anyone ever seen mushrooms like these?


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

kickedinthevader said:


> Hey guys. Been a while. Been letting everything grow out, Still haven't gotten frogs. I decided to take a close look at the tank before I get the frogs. And I came across something that worried me a little. I'm not entirely sure what it is I am looking at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't see your pic because I'm at work, but I'm sure you're talking about the creeping fig. I'm taking an educated guess, and I'm going to say that is what the plant uses to cling to the wall.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

B-NICE said:


> I can't see your pic because I'm at work, but I'm sure you're talking about the creeping fig. I'm taking an educated guess, and I'm going to say that is what the plant uses to cling to the wall.


Nah it wasn't the fig. It is some sort of algae. I'm not really worried about it anymore 

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## freaky_tah (Jan 21, 2009)

I would still stick with dried dead leaves for leaf litter. That is how it appears in a natural forest floor after all.


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## B-NICE (Jul 15, 2011)

All types of wierd things happen in these vivs so give it a while and see what happens. I will never forget when my grape wood had grew that moldy silk lol.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Alright. So I'v run into a little snag and I REALLY need some help... Seems I didnt set up my water figure correctly, and water is flowing against the clay background turning it into sludge. Also I used the kitty litter method so the quality of the clay was already hurting... So this is where I need help. These are the choices I am seeing.

A) Tearing out the clay background, replacing the whole left side, where the water feature is with GS. 

or

B) Pulling the entire enclosure apart and starting from scratch.

if you guys have some other ideas PLEASE tell me.


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## EverettC (Mar 9, 2004)

Post a picture so we can see what it looks like right now, then we can help you better .


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

B-NICE said:


> All types of wierd things happen in these vivs so give it a while and see what happens. I will never forget when my grape wood had grew that moldy silk lol.


Yeah my grapewood has slime like that all over, it's nasty but my frog doesn't mind resting/hopping in it.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

EverettC said:


> Post a picture so we can see what it looks like right now, then we can help you better .


Sorry I guess that helps. Here's a video because I dont think a picture will help.


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## james67 (Jun 28, 2008)

OR ditch the water feature . its this sort of realization that causes most froggers to abandon water features, and to discourage new froggers from attempting them. (there is nearly always some kind of issue)

james


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

james67 said:


> OR ditch the water feature . its this sort of realization that causes most froggers to abandon water features, and to discourage new froggers from attempting them. (there is nearly always some kind of issue)
> 
> james


But the water feature is so pretty  I guess that is def an option. Might just have to do that. Any other suggestions guys? 

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

So I was a little busy yesterday. Took a ride around the city and collected some supplies so I can redo my viv along with much much more.
My first stop was answering a criagslist add about fishtanks and other pet supplies in a storage unit. Left with 4 ten gallon tanks and two tubs FULL of drift wood. 








The bin below this one is full of bigger pieces but I forgot to take a picture.
My next stop was to a guy I met on Craigslist about 6 months ago to pick up some moss.








Epic amount of moss.
Then over to the ceramic shop to pick up some clay background and substrate supplies.






















50 lb bag of each.
That concluded my adventure before work yesterday. Ill keep you all updated.


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## Neontra (Aug 16, 2011)

Most of that wood is sandblasted grapewood, and that is a lot of it... lol


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Most of it is. But I use grapewood for my bearded dragons and such.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

Its been some time. I have been working on some smaller projects, as some of you know. So as of about 3 hours ago, this is how the viv looked.








Clay all dried up, plants removed. Doing a total reset. Ill be sure to update with progress I'm going in a much different direction this time around.


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## kickedinthevader (Jan 30, 2011)

So this is what i decided to do with this monster of a tank. Using Doug's info on replacing broken glass on a viv to pull the front pane of glass off the front hex to make it a front opening tank.








I then had to cut the half inch thick glass in order to start the conversion. This was NOT an easy task to do at home, if you are interested in knowing how let me know, I'll post a video, but honestly I'v found it easier to just have pros do it.








I have a local glass and mirror shop around my area, so I went there to see how much it would cost for them to cut me a sheet of glass for the lid... Well they wanted to charge me 150 dollars for the glass and the cutting. Which I am not entirely sure is a good price, but there was NO way I was paying that much. So I had a half broken 55 gallon tank I got for free on CL. So I took it apart and brought one of the side panes to them, where they charged me 25 to cut it to the shape I needed.








Also you will notice I took the wood framing off to give it a nicer look. I have a new found love for frameless tanks. 









Please let me know what you think. I feel this is going to have a much better outcome then it's top opening counterpart.


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