# chytridiomycosis positive, advice needed



## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

About a week and a half ago one of my amazon milk tree frogs died very unexpectedly. Since i planned to sell any offspring from my dart frogs down the line I did what any responsible person would do and sent my frog off for a necropsy.

Yesterday I received the results and my heart sank in to my stomach as I read the frog died from chytrid. Not only did it have chytrid, but there was a high load of nematodes found during the necropsy and low levels of calcium. The chytrid level was pretty low, but still the cause for death. 

I am pretty much in a state of shock right now and at the same time I am kicking myself hard.

I got my milk frogs august of last year (when I was just starting out) from what I thought to be a reliable person, i had seen him at tons of shows, he sold tons of animals to people and you can still find him at shows here to this very day, but what did not turn me off was the fact *he did not have any contact info* and now I could just scream.

I've spent the majority of last night re-reading everything I ever have on chytrid and have even looked at some newer articles on the fungus.

However I still have some unanswered questions.

1.) Some sites say to throw away all plants, some do not. What is really correct? I would like to if possible at least spare my miniature orchids, if this is not possible, do I still need to throw away any plants which were never used in frog enclosures?

2.) I have tadpoles in the water right now , how possible is it that they will have this?

3.) I have my milk frogs and auratus in my bedroom, what are the chances the chytrid have passed to my livingroom which contains the rest of my collection? ---- Little background, I have always sterilized all of my tools after each use and washed my hands as if it were a religion after going in and out of each tank. 

4.) What are the chances this is ever really fully cured?

5.) Many say that chytrid only affects amphibians, but is there any chance my klemmeri could get this?

6.) Can the nematodes found in the frogs affect any other animals in this house? (Cats, Ferrets, Gecko, Humans) 

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In closing I will be meeting with the vet today to pickup all the materials to treat my entire collection and will be sending off swabs on all other frogs just to be on the safe side.


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## mongo77 (Apr 28, 2008)

I don't have any answers to your questions, but would like to say that I'm sorry for your loss. I can imagine the fear you are feeling for your other animals and family. I hope everything works out and I'm sure someone here on this board can help to put your mind at ease. 
Larry


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## Dane (Aug 19, 2004)

I haven't dealt with Chytrid personally, but I've tested all of my frogs, and done a fair amount of research, and based on what I know:

1. You can clear B.d. zoospores from your plants & enclosure by heating the entire tank to around 90-95*F for several hours. I would be inclined to do this (to clean the materials) and then scrap most of the tank. If there are a few select plants that you wish to save or reuse, I would also give them at least one bleach bath.

2. It's likely that the tads would have contracted the fungi if they came from the same frogs, and were in contact with the same water/materials. I am unaware of any treatments for tadpoles that wouldn't result in mortality, and the newly morphed frogs will probably be hit too hard by the fungus to survive any kind of treatment. I would suggest euthanizing them and disposing of them in a manner that won't potentially transmit the fungus to your local ecosystem.

3. Depends on the thoroughness of your 'sterilization' and hand washing. Also, what is your typical feeding regimen? Do you use a single dusting/feeding cup for all of your enclosures? Do any misting bottles get used throughout your collection?

4. I don't know much about milks in particular, but I have read a few clinical and anecdotal reports involving several retests of previously infected frogs that resulted in repeated clean tests after Lamasil, Itraconazol, and some other anti-fungal medications.

5. Your klemmeri will not get Chytrid, but if hygiene protocol was lacking, the materials in their enclosure could be contaminated, which may result in reinfection of nearby amphibians under said conditons.

6. Some microbes are not very host-specific, and may be transmitted among your pets and yourself, it just depends on what you are dealing with.

If anyone more "in the know" would like to add to, or correct me, please do.



hexentanz said:


> 1.) Some sites say to throw away all plants, some do not. What is really correct? I would like to if possible at least spare my miniature orchids, if this is not possible, do I still need to throw away any plants which were never used in frog enclosures?
> 
> 2.) I have tadpoles in the water right now , how possible is it that they will have this?
> 
> ...


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

hexentanz said:


> I am pretty much in a state of shock right now and at the same time I am kicking myself hard.


Don't be so hard on yourself... there is a fair bit of data that indicates that chytrid maybe widespread within the captive populations. 



hexentanz said:


> 1.) Some sites say to throw away all plants, some do not. What is really correct? I would like to if possible at least spare my miniature orchids, if this is not possible, do I still need to throw away any plants which were never used in frog enclosures?


If you heat the plants and enclosure up to 99 F for a minumum of 4 hours (I don't have time to repost the references as I need to leave for work but I had recently posted it in a different thread), you can clear them of chytrid however depending on the type of nematode involved, you may need to disinfect them further (as lungworms have a free living stage and can reinfect other frogs). 



hexentanz said:


> 2.) I have tadpoles in the water right now , how possible is it that they will have this?


If they were in contact with the infected frog then there is a good possibility. Tadpoles can be treated with buffered itraconazole (unbuffered will kill them), or based on recent data chloramphenicol. 



hexentanz said:


> 3.) I have my milk frogs and auratus in my bedroom, what are the chances the chytrid have passed to my livingroom which contains the rest of my collection? ---- Little background, I have always sterilized all of my tools after each use and washed my hands as if it were a religion after going in and out of each tank.


Chytrid has been found in a number of importers/exporters and dealers when testing was done for it, so depending on where you got the frogs, pretty high. If you ever used plant cuttings from one tank to another (or materials collected from outside) there is also a good chance of it infecting the rest of the collection. There is also a good risk that nematodes are more widespread withing the collection as well, and the frogs should be checked to see the level of infection and whether or not they have lungworms. 



hexentanz said:


> 4.) What are the chances this is ever really fully cured?


If treated? Excellent, so far in Zoo collections, treatment has resulted in a 100% cure rate. 



hexentanz said:


> 5.) Many say that chytrid only affects amphibians, but is there any chance my klemmeri could get this?


No. For a number of reasons including the fact that Klemmeri bask and raise thier body temperatures high enough to kill chytrid. 



hexentanz said:


> 6.) Can the nematodes found in the frogs affect any other animals in this house? (Cats, Ferrets, Gecko, Humans)


Highly unlikely but in some cases theoretically possible, talk to the vet, as he/she will have better information. 

Ed


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

The tadpoles were luckily not in contact ever with the milk frogs or anything used with them. Their parents are my Azureus.

The majority of tanks are on a misting system, but yes I have used the same spray bottle between tanks from time to time (which I will now be stopping), but only in my right hand which never touched anything inside. argh :/

I always washed my hands with normal liquid soap as I had read that anti bacterial soap is bad for frogs. Hands were always washed prior to opening a tank and after it.

The frogs in my bedroom have always received care last, feeding, misting, etc.

Materials used in tanks were always washed, scissors, basters, etc.

I have never shared plant clippings between tanks.

-----

The paper I have recommends to use 'Benzalkoniumchlorid' to sterilize the tanks and Itrakonazol to treat the frogs. It also recommends a spot treatment of Ivomec to treat the nemotodes found. The nemotodes were found in the stomach & intestines only. 


I know you say i should not be so hard on myself, but i was so damned careful to only buy from breeders here who had a major reputation for being the best and here I had one impulse buy and it screwed up everything. Yeah.... i know it could have come from anywhere, but still.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


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## melas (Oct 24, 2007)

So sorry to hear about your loss! I do not believe it was mentioned here and perhaps you already know but I will post this for the benefit of other readers. 

*Be sure you dispose of the infected substrate, plants, cage decor, etc properly so as not to infect your local environment. *

We should all be doing this whether we have a known positive infection or not.
Good luck!


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## Ed (Sep 19, 2004)

hexentanz said:


> The tadpoles were luckily not in contact ever with the milk frogs or anything used with them. Their parents are my Azureus.


I would suggest getting the adults tested anyway just to be sure as captive bred dendrobatids have been shown to have it. See http://www.jcu.edu.au/school/phtm/PHTM/frogs/papers/longcore-1999.pdf





hexentanz said:


> The majority of tanks are on a misting system, but yes I have used the same spray bottle between tanks from time to time (which I will now be stopping), but only in my right hand which never touched anything inside. argh


With the misting system, is there an automatic drain? If the drain backs up can it transfer water from one tank to another? 



hexentanz said:


> I always washed my hands with normal liquid soap as I had read that anti bacterial soap is bad for frogs. Hands were always washed prior to opening a tank and after it.


Chytrid has a poor survivial rate on the skin and basic handwashing does do a good control job. 

-----



hexentanz said:


> The paper I have recommends to use 'Benzalkoniumchlorid' to sterilize the tanks and Itrakonazol to treat the frogs. It also recommends a spot treatment of Ivomec to treat the nemotodes found. The nemotodes were found in the stomach & intestines only.


Benzalkonium chloride will kill zoospores but if there is an infected piece of skin inside the terrarium it will not kill the chytrid and will not cure an infected anuran (for one reference see ScienceDirect - Research in Veterinary Science : A zoospore inhibition technique to evaluate the activity of antifungal compounds against Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis and unsuccessful treatment of experimentally infected green tree frogs (Litoria c) 
Itraconazole (the same as you listed above) is effective in treating infected anurans provided it is buffered. Amphibian ringers solution provides an adequate buffering agent to prevent harm to the frogs from the low pH of the Itraconazole and is very safe when buffered. 
Ivermectin (Ivomec) is a safe topical treatment for nematodes. If the parasite loads are very heavy, you might want to discuss with your vet treatment regimens that don't kill a majority of the worms the first time to prevent issues with the frogs from the massive death of worms within thier system. An alternative treatment may be giving the frogs a bath in Levamisol. 



hexentanz said:


> I know you say i should not be so hard on myself, but i was so damned careful to only buy from breeders here who had a major reputation for being the best and here I had one impulse buy and it screwed up everything. Yeah.... i know it could have come from anywhere, but still.


Symptoms and death from chytrid typically doesn't appear until unless the temperatures in the cage get below 75 F, so even those with the best reputation may not know they have it in thier collection unless they test for it. 

Ed


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Ed said:


> I would suggest getting the adults tested anyway just to be sure as captive bred dendrobatids have been shown to have it. See http://www.jcu.edu.au/school/phtm/PHTM/frogs/papers/longcore-1999.pdf


A frog from every tank in my collection will be swabbed and tested. I also plan to treat them while treating all others just to be safe while i await results.



Ed said:


> With the misting system, is there an automatic drain? If the drain backs up can it transfer water from one tank to another?


The tanks hooked up to the misting system have drains, one is independent from the rest and two tanks are hooked up to the same tubing from the drains. There has been no backups, I am very careful to always make certain that does not happen. The tanks has also never needed to drain themselves either. 

I use dendrobate tanks that have little moats at the front of the tanks and the water usually evaporates overtime. The drains installed are more there to prevent overflow of the moats in to the tank.




Ed said:


> Benzalkonium chloride will kill zoospores but if there is an infected piece of skin inside the terrarium it will not kill the chytrid and will not cure an infected anuran (for one reference see ScienceDirect - Research in Veterinary Science : A zoospore inhibition technique to evaluate the activity of antifungal compounds against Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis and unsuccessful treatment of experimentally infected green tree frogs (Litoria c)


The vet I met with today also leaned against using the Benzalkonium. She recommended something else which i cannot remember the name of at the moment as the paper is in another room and if i get up to get it I will be attacked by 5 crazy ferrets. 




Ed said:


> Itraconazole (the same as you listed above) is effective in treating infected anurans provided it is buffered. Amphibian ringers solution provides an adequate buffering agent to prevent harm to the frogs from the low pH of the Itraconazole and is very safe when buffered.
> Ivermectin (Ivomec) is a safe topical treatment for nematodes. If the parasite loads are very heavy, you might want to discuss with your vet treatment regimens that don't kill a majority of the worms the first time to prevent issues with the frogs from the massive death of worms within thier system. An alternative treatment may be giving the frogs a bath in Levamisol.


I was told to treat the frogs with the itraconazole using 1 ml to 100ml of water. And any tadpoles using 1/2ml to 100ml of water. Is this correct for the tads?


Also the vet recommended steaming the tanks, what are your thoughts on this? She told me this could be done with a steamer or releasing the steam from an iron.


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## MauricesExoticPets (Jul 9, 2009)

I cant speak to the majority of your questions but I can comment on the steam cleaning.

An iron is not the best tool for this job, a spout type steamer would be the better tool.

Regardless of tool type the effectiveness will greatly depend on how well you cover the surfaces of the tank and how well the steam penitrates the items you are wishing to sterilize.

It boils down to skill and equipment, it you don't have both use another option or combine steam with another method such as a 10% bleach soak.

In my opinion soak with 10% bleach 24 hours then steam clean the items in need of sterilization.

Best of luck,
Maurice Pudlo


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Lamisil would be a MUCH cheaper alternative to itraconazole. My vet said he couldn't make a solution of itraconazole for me for less than $500 since it is a pharmaceutical human drug.


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## hexentanz (Sep 18, 2008)

Rain_Frog said:


> Lamisil would be a MUCH cheaper alternative to itraconazole. My vet said he couldn't make a solution of itraconazole for me for less than $500 since it is a pharmaceutical human drug.


I paid 16€ through my vet for enough of the stuff to do 2 rounds of treatments.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Is Germany's healthcare socialized? America is not, and right now, we're trying to rethink our healthcare system.


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