# D. pumilio 'San Cristobal' breeding help



## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Alright, to start this off, I'll give a quick bio on the frogs.....

A couple months ago, I bought a probable pair of D. Pumilio 'san cristobal' from a fellow hobbiest. Both frogs were from the 2006 imports. The breeder reported that he had never expereinced calling from the 'male', but had discovered eggs on several occasions. 

I recieved the animals a day or two into November, where I proceeded to introduce them to their seperate quarantine tanks. Judging from their body shape (one lean, and the other, plump and large) I could see that these animals could possible be a pair. 

During their brief quarantine spell, both frogs where fairly shy and spent the majority of their time hiding. After some debate, I decided to introduce both animals to their permanent vivarium since they appeared to be eating well. 

After placing the frogs in the vivarium, both where shy for several days. 

A month later (today), here are my observations: 

The 'male' has been fairly active this past month, exploring the entire viv, however, I have heard absolutely no calling, and neither has my family. (I'm ususally in the same room as the frogs from 4oclock pm to 8 oclock am the next morning, and the rest of the time, someone is at home). 

The 'female' is pretty shy, and has spent most of the time in the same two brom leaf cups during the past month. She darts under water when I open the lid of the tank/a loud noise is made/I accidentaly bump the desk. However, I've been told that she is active during the day when I'm at class, and the past few days I've witnessed her exploring the tank. 

The two have shown almost no interest in each other. The extent of their interaction is that they seem to share the same interest in sleeping spots. One night, the female will go to a specific spot, and the next night, the male will hunker down there. Sometimes they sleep on brom leaf cups that are near each other. 

My question is, how to get these guys to show some interest in breeding. 

So far, I've tried: 

Stimulating a dry season (for a week), followed by heavy misting for a week+ (the first wet day was today so maybe this will work?) 

Playing calls, at which the 'female' seems indifferent, and the male (especially today) seems to be even more active and hops around the broms. The first time I played a call, he darted down the nearest brom leaf to hide. 

Right now, I wrapped their vent in saran wrap to keep humidity as high as possible. 

Is there anything else that could possibly do the trick?

I have heard of people seperating the frogs, and I might try this. Which frog to remove from the vivarium however, the male, or the female? Also, for how long? 

It could be possible I have two females. If I havn't seen any improvement in several months, I may try to purchase a calling male to introduce to the two I already have. 

Sorry about the long post. If anybody has any advice, previous experience, etc. I would greatly appreciate it. For the record, I did search around the forums, yet I didn't find all the info I would ideally want. 

Thanks very much in advance. Cheers.

Raymond


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm no expert , but I've been trying to figure mine out though , with some small sucess . But things I've found out ,

First , just because you don't hear calling dosn't mean he isn't . My one Cristo you can see his throat puff but if you don't have your ear in the viv you do not hear him. Its really quiet . 

Second , just because the other is female dosn't mean they are compatable . I had to go through four possible females before I found one that was and layed some eggs . I had eggs the next day after putting her in . 

What are your temperatures like ? I was told that they like 80-81 degrees or around there so . I only mist my tanks once a day in the mid morning and maybe twice a week later in the day , ( on a timer ) sometimes I will hand mist if it looks dry . I hate to say so but I don't even have a humidity gauge in these tanks on my rack 
so I cant tell you what it is , but its obviously working !

My other yellow ones were in their tank together for at least a month before they laid eggs ( I had never even seen one of them call ) . I didn't actually see him call till about two months after I got him .

I have a small spot supposed trio I got off a guy about six months ago , I've seen him call once since I got them and havent seen any eggs ever in their tank .

Basicly it's hit or miss .

Maybe you don't have a male and the one female could have laid eggs from having heard a male call from another tank when he had them ?

If you see him call it's a male , if there are eggs you have a female. You might have to get a known calling male to put in there to find out .


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Thanks very much for the reply Mark, I appreciate it. 

I think one of the biggest factors is the temperature. It's been getting down in the high fifties/low sixties around here, with the frog room being in the high sixties to low/mid 70s. Hopefully when the warmer temps hit (the room will be in the high 70s low 80s) something will happen. 

They have high humidity however. The past week, I opened the vent wide and misted very little. Now, I saran wrapped the vent and am misting several times a day to keep humidity levels very high (stimulate a wet season). 

I thought of the fact that she layed from hearing another male. Hmm, if there is no improvement after the temps start to go up, I may try to purchase a calling male and introduce him. 

I'm slightly hopeful due to some activity I witnessed yesterday: 

The 'male' was on the same brom leaf as the female, and I was playing some pumilio calls. He perked up and looked at the female, then his sides started 'puffing up' and moving in and out more than usual. This behavior is something I have observered with a friends pumilio male when it is about to call/already calling. 

Maybe he was getting ready, or actually was calling, and I just didn't see the throat. 

When yours calls, how large is his vocal sack? Is it quite large like the average basti male, or is it smaller like a vent throat? 

Anyways, thanks for the help Mark. I'm glad to see someone is getting good results with these guys. Congrats. 

Cheers,
Raymond


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## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

i dont have anything constructive to say but i will say i find this very interesting i do not have any pumilio but will undoubtedly get some in the future so i am trying to pick up as many little tidbits as possible 
i hope yours start to breed in the near future
good luck and happy frogging


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Cheers Joe, I appreciate it.


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## pigface (Apr 28, 2006)

How about getting another light ( that you can turn on or off when temps need adjusted ) that puts out a little more heat till the outside temps go up ? 

50-60 degrees ? you have it so hard ! :lol: Its been in the 20s here allready . 

I don't know that Pums need 100% humidity I think I read somewere that they don't need it as high as some other darts . As long as its 80 - 85% or over you should be ok . Another thing you need some air circulation in there or your plants might not do so well .










This guy is like this almost constantly not quite as puffed up as in the picture but it looks like he's ready to call at any moment . It's quite funny . Since they are tending tads now he might need a few cold showers . 










These pums in this tank I have had the longest and never seen eggs in six months . Their tank is huge though ( 90 gal ) and I might never have seen them . I tried playing calls and it didn't make a bit of difference with these guys .










Sometimes I noticed the male will try stroking the female with his front leg before or while calling too .


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Hmm, I have considered another light. 

I'm going to ask for a compound flourescant light system for christmas, this lighting should provide a good amount of heat for the tanks. 

Wow, 20 degrees...... :shock: 

Around here, we complain when it gets into the fifties. I guess I forgot that it gets so chilly in other places, my bad. Good luck with such low temps.

Hmmm, so their vocal sack is defanetely protruding to the level where I wouldn't miss it. I guess I'll just have to observe him a lot. 

I've got a 2 and a half week break from school after this Friday, so I'll have a lot of time to spend with the frogs. 

Thanks for the help and the photos, I appreciate it. 

Cheers.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

Hey guys,
I have a breeding trio of cristos. What I have done seems to work, so here it goes. The viv for them is set up to be around 50-60% humidity all the time. I mist them once a day as I turn the lights off to the frog room. The temps in the viv stay at an almost constant temp, around 70. The temp does fluctuate a little but nothing major, maybe 2-4 degrees at night. Thats about it. My male only calls when the females are about to lay. He is not like my man creek who calls all day long. I here about 1 peep out of him a week. Just because you have not heard him call doesnt mean that he hasnt. Just like pigface said they are very hard to here. Well thats what has worked for me. I hope you find some eggs soon.
Jason


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## Raymond (Aug 26, 2006)

Jason DeSantis said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a breeding trio of cristos. What I have done seems to work, so here it goes. The viv for them is set up to be around 50-60% humidity all the time. I mist them once a day as I turn the lights off to the frog room. The temps in the viv stay at an almost constant temp, around 70. The temp does fluctuate a little but nothing major, maybe 2-4 degrees at night. Thats about it. My male only calls when the females are about to lay. He is not like my man creek who calls all day long. I here about 1 peep out of him a week. Just because you have not heard him call doesnt mean that he hasnt. Just like pigface said they are very hard to here. Well thats what has worked for me. I hope you find some eggs soon.
> Jason



Thanks very much Jason.

This is very informative. 

He could very well be calling when I am at school. (8am to 4pm), and hiding a lot when I get home since I'm ususally at the desk area/computer which is right where their tank is. (I just thought of this) 

I just havn't seen almost ANY interaction between the female and the male besides the time when he was looking at her and puffing his sides. 

I'll keep a close eye on them during break and see if I can spot any surprises. 

Thanks again.


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## Jason DeSantis (Feb 2, 2006)

My male hides all the time. The only time I see him outside the broms is when the females are depositing eggs. The females on the other hand are all over the viv, very bold. When I open the door to feed them the females hop towards me. I dont know if this is common among cristos or not. But like I said if the male and female are both out I would be looking for eggs. :lol: Good luck and keep us posted.
Jason


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