# Heat Stress



## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

I was hoping I'd never have to start a thread in this forum... but I need some help.

My frog room is typically air conditioned to about 72 - 75 degrees (inside tank temps). This is the only room in the house with air conditioning. While out of town this past weekend, it appears that at some point the house lost power for several hours. That, by itself, would not be a big deal... but when the power was restored, my little window A/C did not turn itself back on. My frog room turned into a pressure cooker.

According to my max/min thermometers, several of my tanks reached 99 degrees. One reached 104 (luckily, this one was empty). I lost a beautiful breeding pair of amazonicus and some tadpoles. 

My adult azurues pair are the only frogs to survive, but I use that term loosely. They are alive, but very clearly in a state of extreme stress. When I came home and discovered the situation, I immediatly started the A/C and the ventilation fans for my tanks. I was able to quickly reduce temps into the upper 80's, but let the A/C gradually lower the temps back down into the low/mid 70's over the next 6 hours. I didn't want to add additional stress by cooling them too quickly.

Both frogs were very robust and healthy prior to this weekend. They are no longer crouched down in that head down "the end is coming" position, but they are in a sort of stupor. They appear very weak (but not skinny) or perhaps just clumsy, move little, and seem oblivious to their surroundings. Humidity had dipped into the 70's, but is now back at ~ 98 percent.

What is the outlook for them surviving this ordeal? Is there anything I can do to aid in their recovery? Is recovery a possibility, or has the heat permanently damaged them neurologically? I'm hoping for the best, but the outlook seems bleak...

I've read that in dry conditions that D. azureus can aestivate until more wet/rainy weather returns. Is it possible these frogs have slipped into a state of aestivation and just need time to bring their bodies back to a normal state??? I'm grabbing at straws here...

Any advice or guidance is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeremy


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## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

Jeremy,

Sorry I haven't replied to your email yet!! THIS SUCKS!! I haven't had experience with this problem, so sorry I can't be of help there!! I hope your Azureus pair makes it, but if not...I still owe you some imi tads.
So pay shipping and I will throw in 2 azureus froglets as well (Just for keeping my wife and I laughing for the past 6 months or so!) It's sad to lose "Big Red", but a lesson learned I'm sure. I have quite a few ammy tads in the water currently as well! We give return customers a hell of a deal! :wink: 

Mike
http://www.snmreptiles.com


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## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

One thing you can do to possibly help in the future is put a thermostat on your lights so for example if the room temp gets over say 78-80 kill the lights. This will keep the lights from making things worse. Granted in this situation it may not have helped depending on how much the lights brought up the temp.


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## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

kyle1745 said:


> One thing you can do to possibly help in the future is put a thermostat on your lights so for example if the room temp gets over say 78-80 kill the lights. This will keep the lights from making things worse. Granted in this situation it may not have helped depending on how much the lights brought up the temp.


An idea I have if most of you're outages are short is to put you're ac on a uninteruptable power supply, like those sold for PC's...to get one that could run an ac for short period of time would be expensive, but cheaper than replacing breeding stock...

I think AZDR had some alarm type things on their site that plug in to you're computer, and will send you a email or text or something if temps exceed tolerances...if that wasn't the site, I know I did see them somewhere...

I think in most cases, Kyle's suggestion is probably the most practical, I know a lot of people whose AC is not quite keeping up with this year's extreme heat...so the thermostat control of the lights would help out with that, as well as giving a visual alarm that you're temps are getting out of hand...


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

This happened to me too.  
I was on vacation and my friend was tending to frogs he called me in an emergency situation to tell me my room was about 87-89 degrees and the tanks were up in the 90a under the lighting. I told him to turn off all the lights and turn on the a/c. I lost 4 terribilis and thats it. I was extremley distressed to lose them b/c i raised them as tadpoles and they were almost of breeding age. Fortunatley all the other frogs made it through.

I am really sorry to hear this.


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback...

Since I only run T-12 bulbs, I'm not sure if a high temp shut-off would have helped in this situation, but then again just a few degrees less might have made the difference... 

I'm going to spend the $78 and purchase a shut-off. *Does anyone know of a source cheaper than that *(w/ shipping)???

In the mean time, is there anything I can do to help my frogs survive the coming weeks besides just providing a stable low-stress environment??

Booboo - sorry to hear about your terribilis. I hope the rest of your frogs make it.

Mike - You're a superstar dude. Thank you again for such a very generous offer. I will hold my comments for the vendor section so I don't break any rules... And yes, Big Red was a tremendous loss as far as I'm concerned. My female azureus snapped up a few FF this morning, so I'm still hanging onto the hope that they will pull through. If it ever cools down enough to ship I'll be in touch!

Brian - I'm going to look into the power outage sensor thing. If you recall where you saw it please shoot me a PM. I'm also going to keep an eye out for a back-up power supply. I could have had several of them free a few months ago, but couldn't think of a use for them.... 

In hind sight, I think the smartest thing would have been to pay my house sitter the $10 per day to check on the place and water the plants like I have done every other time I left town. THAT would have been $30 well spent.... 

Thanks again guys,

Jeremy


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## booboo (Jan 22, 2005)

Oh yah all the others are fine and breeding! I solved the problem by getting a window a/c unit (no worries except power failure).
I spent $100 at costco for my room a/c why spend $78 on an auto shutoff why not get a window ac?


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

booboo said:


> Oh yah all the others are fine and breeding! I solved the problem by getting a window a/c unit (no worries except power failure).
> I spent $100 at costco for my room a/c why spend $78 on an auto shutoff why not get a window ac?


I do have a window a/c unit, but when the power went out the unit did not automatically restart. I bet yours won't either. So if the power goes out for only a few seconds, all the lights will come back on and the a/c won't. That's why it hit 100 degrees in the room, and that's why the auto shutoff could pay for itself pretty quickly if the power gets cut again (think rotating outages if this heat doesn't let up!). I saw some a/c units that WILL restart if the power fails, but they were much more expensive (starting around $375...).

Glad to hear the rest of your collection is doing great!


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## Catfur (Oct 5, 2004)

A simple analog dial controlled A/C will restart with no problems after a power outage. It's those fancy scmancy digital units that are certified frog killers.


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## cobaltsinoh (Mar 13, 2006)

Hey! I have a fancy scmancy A/C unit that is digital and comes back on after a power outage. It wasn't any more expensive than the analog ones or ones that didn't come on after power outage. Just thought I'd let you know they are out there and easily obtained when buying a new A/C unit[/quote]


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Sweet! How about some details!? Brand, Model #, size, price etc. I have not been able to find one in my area with that feature...


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## cobaltsinoh (Mar 13, 2006)

My A/C is made by Frigidaire and is FAC125, its one of the larger producing A/C's that still operates on 110 Volts. The cost was somewhere around 349.99 and I think its 10,000 or 11,000 BTU. I purchased it at Best Buy, hope this helps!


Tony


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

JL-Exotics said:


> I saw some a/c units that WILL restart if the power fails, but they were much more expensive (starting around $375...).






Cobaltsinoh said:


> I have a fancy scmancy A/C unit that is digital and comes back on after a power outage.... The cost was somewhere around 349.99 ...


Ok, that makes sense. I paid $120 for mine... None of the smaller, less expensive models have that feature (that I could find). 

Thanks for the info!


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## Lukeomelas (Mar 15, 2005)

Jeremy,

I once had some vents come in completely cooked. I actually thought they were dead. I had already taken pics and e-mailed them to the shipper. I was so pissed off, he didn't even use any insulation. But that's a different story. 

I had them sitting on my desk at work and my Accountant came in to check out the new frogs. I asked her if she had ever seen BBQ frogs before? She still looked in the containers and was supprised to see a little heart beat. I quickly got them over to the sink and slowly ran water over them. Two of the three came "back to life". I've still got them a year later and they have actually produce good eggs for me on many occations. Heat stress is bad, but if they pull through they might just be okay.

Sorry for the long story.

Luke


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## JL-Exotics (Nov 10, 2005)

Lukeomelas said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> I once had some vents come in completely cooked.... Heat stress is bad, but if they pull through they might just be okay.
> Luke


Wow, thanks for sharing that Luke! My azureus pair seem to be doing very well. I'm still concerned about long-term physical & reproductive damage, but your story helps give me hope that they'll be just fine in the end.

Jeremy


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Ok, more on this dadgum HEAT situation! I got a new a/c unit...it is one of the non-digital with a knob that WILL turn back on if the power goes out and back on again. Anyway, that is only half of my problem right now...I've been turning the tank lights off at about 2:00PM because right now it is 78 degrees in the room...with a/c going full blast (the old one as I haven't installed the new one yet. It's 93 outside, but weather.com says it feels like 97.

Anyway, does anyone else have any other good ideas? I think I have to try to get my hubby to insulate the room...it's concrete block on all four walls and the roof is only wood with attic space above it (this is a room in my barn). Is there a way to insulate concrete block or should adding insulation to the roof be enough? 

I'm getting worried about my little frogs...there are lots of pum's in there which can take the higher temps...but my lamasi are also in there, so I'm starting to worry about them. Imitator, too. I'm thinking that if I don't get this figured out soon, in come the lamasi and the imitator.

Thanks!

Kristen


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

hi kristin,
still have to get back to you on the amy`s. 
the cheapest solution is ice cubes buried in the tank and spraying a couple times a day with distilled from the fridge. not the frogs, just the rest of the tank. that will work in a pinch. cold air will drop, so tanks of concern on the ground, if possible. 1 inch thick silvered(reflective) insulation is about $15 a sheet(4x8ft.) and would reflect the heat out and better keep the room cool. i`d even get 1 sheet just to cover any windows not venting the ac. it can be cut to fit and will do wonders if any sunlight is getting in. 1/2inch single side reflective is only about $8-9 a sheet. if you use that i`d face the reflective side out. you may not have to permenantly install it either.


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

Will this help on the top of the room? Picture a rectangular room with a loft type attic space above it, then the barn roof...one side of the room is adjacent to a stall, so that shouldn't produce heat, and actually, the other two sides are under cover, so they don't get direct sunlight. Do you think this will help in this situation?

Thanks


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## *slddave* (Jun 2, 2006)

I would put the ice in a bucket on top of the viv because cold air falls. I noticed you said the lights go off at 2pm, why not set it up so they come on for only 6 to 8 hours a day but through the night like 12am-8am.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

could u do a drop ceiling? this way the hot air from above couldnt mix. the less space you have to cool the better. even if you could cut the room in half w/ the tanks of concern beihnd the wall. you could leave one sheet out of the wall to let cold air drift into the pumilio part. i dont know if it`s possible for you. the movement of air w/ the ac is going to mix the air from above no matter what. you cant have 90f and 70f in the same room over 8 feet of height, i dont think. the insulation sheets are very light and can be taped at the seems to make rooms. i did this in my basement after a hot summer when i didnt want to move all the tanks back up for the winter. the cubes on top of the tank sounds good. esp if you use a screen top and leet it drip. if you do this over one corner it may not cool the whole tank but it will give them a microclimate. a temp gun and indoor outdoor thermometer is a very good set of tools for getting the bugs out. it`s labor intensive any way you look at it other then a second ac.


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

*slddave* said:


> I would put the ice in a bucket on top of the viv because cold air falls. I noticed you said the lights go off at 2pm, why not set it up so they come on for only 6 to 8 hours a day but through the night like 12am-8am.


Oh, I forgot to mention that I just switched from 8AM to 8PM to the 2AM to 2PM recently because I didn't want to suddenly switch their days and nights...I figured a gradual switch would be a little better, but I needed the lights of in the extreme heat of the day so I had to jump all the way to 2:00. 

Most of my stuff is breeding pretty regularly, so I want the 12/12 light cycle so they hopefully don't get too messed up.

If I get this temperature thing fixed by installing the new a/c (maybe it's going to be more efficient since it's not 2 years old), then I'll go back to the 8 to 8 cycle.

Kristen


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## trinacliff (Aug 9, 2004)

I'm not sure what a drop ceiling is. I can't really divide up the room as it's already a very small room...about 8 x 6. It was originally going to be the tack room in my barn until I nixed that idea so I could use the room for more fun activities...haha.

It also only has one very small window...the size that only the smallest a/c unit will fit in. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to get one of those portable units and vent it out of the roof since I don't have another window to vent it out of. Poor hubby...he has some work cut out for him. 

Kristen






frogfarm said:


> could u do a drop ceiling? this way the hot air from above couldnt mix. the less space you have to cool the better. even if you could cut the room in half w/ the tanks of concern beihnd the wall. you could leave one sheet out of the wall to let cold air drift into the pumilio part. i dont know if it`s possible for you. the movement of air w/ the ac is going to mix the air from above no matter what. you cant have 90f and 70f in the same room over 8 feet of height, i dont think. the insulation sheets are very light and can be taped at the seems to make rooms. i did this in my basement after a hot summer when i didnt want to move all the tanks back up for the winter. the cubes on top of the tank sounds good. esp if you use a screen top and leet it drip. if you do this over one corner it may not cool the whole tank but it will give them a microclimate. a temp gun and indoor outdoor thermometer is a very good set of tools for getting the bugs out. it`s labor intensive any way you look at it other then a second ac.


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## Roadrunner (Mar 6, 2004)

a drop ceiling would lower the ceiling to just over your head. you`d have to use wires and hang them from the regular ceiling. just sounded like you had vaulted ceilings in there. it`s probably more hassle than its worth. only i would undertake such a project. it would involve using hooks in the ceiling and hanging wires and poking holes thru the 4x8 sheets and tieng washers or something to hang them and then taping them all together. you could then decrease your frog room to say 6ft hi and have less space to cool. stupid suggestion. good luck, sorry i couldnt have been mmore help. i`ll get to you tomorrow about the amy`s. i lost one and have to figure out the remaining sexes. he/she will be of no use when i find it.  part of the reason i`m decreasing my thumnail collection. until i can incorporate escape proof tanks for thumbs i think i may leave them be.


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## Rain_Frog (Apr 27, 2004)

Kristen, if you care enough, and if you have a decent basement, I'd suggest buying a couple ten gallon tanks from petco and screen lids (use saran wrap to keep humidity in) and move them into the basement until the weather cools down. This is what I did for all my frogs upstairs when temps rose above 84 degrees.

Oh yeah, I have additionally put a large bag of ice over the glass lids of my tank, and then cover the ice with a blanket to further insulate and cause the coldness to traverse through the glass and not away. Insulate the walls/wrap the tank with some blankets. It did help quite a bit for my tinc.


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