# $12,500 CUSTOM BUILD VIVARIUM: Dendroboard Styl



## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

The title says it all. I got a crazy bonus from work. I had Patrick made me a custom vivarium recently( link ) bellow ( which still hasn't been delivered until tomorrow) . I'm not a DIY type. I don't pretend to be. So I don't apologize for it. I have 7 successful tanks i did on my own. Anyway. Already I am wanting him to do another build 48 x 32 x 48 with Automation and Ecozone Vivarium module 

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...aurian-enterprises-custom-build-vivarium.html


Ok: your ideas, suggestions or even if you have idea for a design.


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## mordoria (Jan 28, 2011)

thats a lot of money to spend on a viv. you could build an extension on your house for that much. Get a new frog wing.
I would just build a viv that I liked. Spending that much money because you can is just wasteful.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

mordoria said:


> thats a lot of money to spend on a viv. you could build an extension on your house for that much. Get a new frog wing.
> I would just build a viv that I liked. Spending that much money because you can is just wasteful.


I thought about the frog wing. LOL. Would be cool.


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## Rusty_Shackleford (Sep 2, 2010)

I would have built 20 vivs for that amount of money


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

While I will admire a vivarium that has already been created, if asked for advice I would say that spending that much money on a single habitat for your own private viewing is an unneccessary extravagance. Personally, if I had that much money to spend, I would plan several display vivariums, possibly built into the walls (if I owned a house), rather than one. I'd also keep some of the money in reserve for medical expenses, equipment repairs, or other unexpected circumstances. You could also design a species/ locale specific biotope, with plants native to the area. I would also donate some of the money to science/research. I usually donate a little bit of money for each display vivarium I have built, reasoning that I might as well do some good rather than just spend money for my own pleasure.

That said, I wouldn't mind my living room wall being replaced by a floor to ceiling 12 foot wide slice of jungle


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

This should be fun to watch. I support you spending your money however you want.


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## Mitch (Jun 18, 2010)

You're so modest! Just kidding... 

That's a nice vivarium, but no need to brag and boast like that - it'll get you nowhere, especially on the internet.


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

I want a ridiculous bonus. 
I think you may not receive as positive of a reaction as you might have wanted. Lots of us have a hard time making ends meet and extravagance some times makes us disgruntled.

That being said I agree that I would choose the Viv over a luxury automobile as well. 


Sean


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

I'd say that it would take a lot of careful consideration. 

If it's something that you really want to do, then you are only limited by imagination on such a grand scale. 

One thought I had would be a full wall build. Patrick did such a great job with the tree that extending beyond the glass on your last build. What about a full wall of vivs that were flawlessly linked. Several trees(lower six feet or so of them). Something that would look like a snapshot of a rainforest the size of your wall, but divided in cubes. Some horizontal, some vertical. That way you could house a full variety of darts for the higher and lower portions. 

Couple example pics(just picture them flawlessly divided into a dozen or more vivs each occupied by different darts)...


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

This sounds incredibly expensive, but Id be willing to bet a lot of reefers spends waaaay more on a tank not even half this size. I wouldnt get on anyone's case for wanting to have an amazing display piece in their home. Id much rather see this then a wall of small tanks. Much greater visual impact, and not to mention the frogs will actually feel at home.

Im not a fan of the tank dimensions though. Id much rather see a horizontally orientated tank because they are more asthetically pleasing then a square. Also, anyone can cover 3 sides of a tank like this with a background, so it'll be interesting to see if he has some compositional skills to make the layout really stand out from others.

Best of luck and keep us updated.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

kitcolebay said:


> I'd say that it would take a lot of careful consideration.
> 
> If it's something that you really want to do, then you are only limited by imagination on such a grand scale.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry everyone. I wasnt trying to brag. I'm just a tad excited to do this. I'm sorry if it came across as boasting. This idea is awesome.!! The wall idea as well is very cool.


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## Jeff R (Jul 1, 2005)

Wow, I generally stay out of it but you guys are jerks. This guy comes at it with a hugely positive attitude and you criticize him for how he spends HIS money. Keep it to yourself! This is why so many people choose not to post or be involved in the online hobby.

Spend your money man! I think its great your dropping that much on this hobby, especially since your supporting some one like Nabors. Great tank, great idea getting everyones input.

Contact Chuck Nishihira (manuran) for plants and especially his tropical moss package. I'd like to see a lot of shingling vines going up the hardscapes.


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## heyduke (Sep 19, 2006)

I have always fantasized about a walk in Viv that I could sit in.


Sean


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

Jeff R said:


> Wow, I generally stay out of it but you guys are jerks. This guy comes at it with a hugely positive attitude and you criticize him for how he spends HIS money. Keep it to yourself! This is why so many people choose not to post or be involved in the online hobby.
> 
> Spend your money man! I think its great your dropping that much on this hobby, especially since your supporting some one like Nabors. Great tank, great idea getting everyones input.
> 
> Contact Chuck Nishihira (manuran) for plants and especially his tropical moss package. I'd like to see a lot of shingling vines going up the hardscapes.



Thanks for the plant info.. moss package.. that was actually my next question.. ( A Great Help ) serious. Thank you. yeah. The idea of spending that much. My goal was to get something from ( each vendor ) even if it was a small thing. So it could be A " dendroboard " build. Hence why i am asking for ideas.
I wasn't trying to throw a brag fest.. i guess i got so excited that it was a green light to do.. sorry if i was a bragging idiot.. I wasn't trying to be.


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

I agree with grimm on the Horizontal layout! As far as the money thing, Hey man you spend your money on what you want! Its your money!! But if i had to tell you how you should spend 12,500, I would just simply tell you to buy one of my paintings! or 5 paintings for that matter!  Good luck with everything!


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## shibbyplustax (Feb 28, 2011)

You shouldnt apologize, its your money you spend it how you want. I personally would not tell anyone how to spend their money no matter my financial situation. Sounds like a great idea, and I like how you are letting everyone get involved in it. Looking forward to see how this is going to come out. Maybe you should consider what you are going to be putting in there and this way everyone can throw out ideas and about the hardscape and they wont conflict each other based on what that animals needs are going to be. Anyway im subscribed and looking forward to see where it goes.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

GRIMM said:


> This sounds incredibly expensive, but Id be willing to bet a lot of reefers spends waaaay more on a tank not even half this size. I wouldnt get on anyone's case for wanting to have an amazing display piece in their home. Id much rather see this then a wall of small tanks. Much greater visual impact, and not to mention the frogs will actually feel at home.
> 
> Im not a fan of the tank dimensions though. Id much rather see a horizontally orientated tank because they are more asthetically pleasing then a square. Also, anyone can cover 3 sides of a tank like this with a background, so it'll be interesting to see if he has some compositional skills to make the layout really stand out from others.
> 
> Best of luck and keep us updated.




Grimm, I would have had you do the build ;-) 

What dimensions would you suggest??. I'm completely open. Give me some of that Edmonton Oilers spirit. So can plan this thing out.


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## jacobi (Dec 15, 2010)

GRIMM said:


> This sounds incredibly expensive, but Id be willing to bet a lot of reefers spends waaaay more on a tank not even half this size. I wouldnt get on anyone's case for wanting to have an amazing display piece in their home. Id much rather see this then a wall of small tanks. Much greater visual impact, and not to mention the frogs will actually feel at home.
> 
> Im not a fan of the tank dimensions though. Id much rather see a horizontally orientated tank because they are more asthetically pleasing then a square. Also, anyone can cover 3 sides of a tank like this with a background, so it'll be interesting to see if he has some compositional skills to make the layout really stand out from others.
> 
> Best of luck and keep us updated.


Reefing is waaaaaay more expensive. Equipment, livestock... I know a guy who has spent close to $40,000 on a 180 gallon reef tank. I look at him, look at his tank, smile and keep my thoughts to myself. Throwing money at something doesn't make it look good, and people usually learn that the hard way. 

I agree about the dimensions. I think if your going to design a vivarium based on shipping, it wont look anywhere near as good as it has the potential for.

Erlese, what species are you planning this viv for? Will it be arboreal? Terrestrial?


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

Im voting for like... 15-20 Fine Spot Leucs In the new tank


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## suztor (Aug 14, 2011)

heyduke said:


> I have always fantasized about a walk in Viv that I could sit in.
> 
> 
> Sean


Oh man! I have an entire plan for this... i'm waiting until we own a house and that is going to be my on going project! I've been adding to it in my head for years!


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## leuc11 (Nov 1, 2010)

Frogs? as much as I love them id be in hawaii for a month. But then agian I would probably do a 300 or so gallon tank for a group of leucs


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## RedEyeTroyFrog (Jan 25, 2008)

I'd go with dimensions like 72"length x 24" depth x 32 Height gives you just about the same amount of volume


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Love the tank so far! They did a great job. Can't wait to see this planted and frogged 

p.s. are you single? lol (jk  )


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

erlese said:


> Grimm, I would have had you do the build ;-)
> 
> What dimensions would you suggest??. I'm completely open. Give me some of that Edmonton Oilers spirit. So can plan this thing out.


It would be fun to do a tank this large. Up here it would probably end up costing you more though since everything is overpriced and impossible to find haha.

I think Troy got the dimensions pretty much right. It would depend on the type of layout you want though. Personally I would give a little more depth to make sure I wouldnt crowd the front glass with the hardscape. By the time you bring the background towards the front you wont have any trouble reaching every spot in the tank.

And as for the tank itself, definitely a 2-3 panel sliding front. Not sure if that is an option with acrylic though. With a tank this big, you want it to be easily accessible, while maintaining a clean design with minimal seams.

As for the interior layout, I keep those ideas to myself


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

isn't the viv already built? so you can't change the dimensions


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

jacobi said:


> Reefing is waaaaaay more expensive. Equipment, livestock... I know a guy who has spent close to $40,000 on a 180 gallon reef tank. I look at him, look at his tank, smile and keep my thoughts to myself. Throwing money at something doesn't make it look good, and people usually learn that the hard way.
> 
> I agree about the dimensions. I think if your going to design a vivarium based on shipping, it wont look anywhere near as good as it has the potential for.
> 
> Erlese, what species are you planning this viv for? Will it be arboreal? Terrestrial?




WOW 40,000 for a reef tank???? I thought I was taking " it to the limit".. i guess reefing sounds CRAZY!!! I know im going overboard with this. but I know my goal is to purchase some from EVERY Vendor. even members on here. I would like to buy jungle pods, vines, or something.. so the members on here can look at the photos and say " ha.. those are my vines...

I know Terrestrial species for sure!!. Brazilion Yellowheads / Or leucs 

Dimensions are for sure changed !! because of everyones awesome advice. Im going with everyones advice!! More horizontal


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

this is for a future build. this is for one to start in august.


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## winstonamc (Mar 19, 2007)

I say pick a smallish room of your house you don't need for anything, seal the walls so the humidity/water won't compromise the building and spend that much money turning the whole thing into a jungle, add a few benches and a small table and you can read the newspaper/dendroboard in the comfort of your own private jungle. I bet you could mod a small room and get some sweet plants with that much money


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

winstonamc said:


> I say pick a smallish room of your house you don't need for anything, seal the walls so the humidity/water won't compromise the building and spend that much money turning the whole thing into a jungle, add a few benches and a small table and you can read the newspaper/dendroboard in the comfort of your own private jungle. I bet you could mod a small room and get some sweet plants with that much money




LOL... that would be very cool....lol...


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## goof901 (Jan 9, 2012)

winstonamc said:


> I say pick a smallish room of your house you don't need for anything, seal the walls so the humidity/water won't compromise the building and spend that much money turning the whole thing into a jungle, add a few benches and a small table and you can read the newspaper/dendroboard in the comfort of your own private jungle. I bet you could mod a small room and get some sweet plants with that much money


and add a path so you can walk in without worrying about stepping on your frogs.


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## evannave (Jan 23, 2009)

Guys the person said they got a bonus for work which they earned not that they stole it from little orphans kids why be petty. I prefer to spend my excess money on hobbies and trips rather than cars or clothes it does not make it a waste of money for other to do so if it makes them happy 

I find it refreshing some one want to do a large tank really well rather than just a bunch of little ones. All to many of us fall prey to the temptation to go the pokemon route and try to collect on of everything. 

The thing that gives me really high hopes for the project is that they are willing to admit that they don't know everything.

Before you decide on the tank think about were in the house it will be and how will you view it. Often time people put large tanks in areas where they look over sized or at the wrong height for when they are standing or sitting. I would grab some card board and make the tank you are thinking of just using cardboard and tape to get a feel of what it would be like to have it in the room and maintian etc

good luck 
Evan Walsh


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## nonliteral (Mar 26, 2012)

erlese said:


> WOW 40,000 for a reef tank???? I thought I was taking " it to the limit".. i guess reefing sounds CRAZY!!!


My experience with reefing is that (outside of the usual large expense items) it nickels and dimes you to death -- except that it's usually more like a couple hundred here and there instead of nickels and dimes...


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Personally - I would ditch the EcoZone and go with a Reef controller (from a company like Neptune Systems, Digital Aquatics, or Reef Angel). Much more expandability, internet/email/sms alerts, pH control, auto top off, etc etc etc

I know you said that you're not much of a DIY-er, but you could get incredible bang for your buck doing a lot of work yourself and just having the hardscape items custom made.

This thread is a great idea: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...-new-wooden-hill-stream-tank-constr-jrnl.html

Take a room of the house and do a 1/2 or 3/4 wrap around tank along the walls. If I paid $12k and only got a ~200gal ish tank I might be miffed. 

There was a couple in Europe who converted a large greenhouse into a frog 'jungle' - after quite a while with no updated I e-mailed them and got this response:



> Hi Steven,
> 
> Thanks for your compliments.
> I forgot to make the last updates at our English website. I still have to translate several parts. I just translated our last part, *we had to break down our greenhouse before we got to much damage through all the humidity in the rest of our house.*We still miss our greenhouse, it was always so relaxing to sit down and watch and listen to the frogs around you. But we have the luck to have also an outdoor greenhouse, a smaller one, mainly for tricolors, tree frogs and small lizards. We cannot control the temperature that well as in our other greenhouse. With temperatures between 15 (in wintertime) and 35 (summertime) degrees Celsius, it's not suitable for the most of the dart frogs.
> ...


I'd venture that if you wanted to turn an actual room into a huge frog room you'd need some special entrance that consisted of double doors with a small externally vented 'mud room' between the rest of the house and the in-house viv.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

stevenhman said:


> Personally - I would ditch the EcoZone and go with a Reef controller (from a company like Neptune Systems, Digital Aquatics, or Reef Angel). Much more expandability, internet/email/sms alerts, pH control, auto top off, etc etc etc
> 
> I know you said that you're not much of a DIY-er, but you could get incredible bang for your buck doing a lot of work yourself and just having the hardscape items custom made.
> 
> ...


CAN I SAY " WTF"???? this is awesome!!!! that green house viv??? LOL...WOW.... ok... Like i said... " im following the advice of others on this. i dont want it to be a build ". taking your advice and went with digital aquatics. you are right. much better expandability their module PC4 can be added too.. up to 12 outlets.. ( im on their sight now. purchasing everything)

I work 55 hour work weeks. so i dont get much of a chance to enjoy doing DIY type this past year.. it really sucks... my skills. are not great only thing i can do is electronics. I can build an RF switch to cause lights to reach music, thunder sounds from a MP3 .thats all im good for.. LOL always wanted to further that talent.. but not a big demand for it.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

These are the automation items im going with!! everyone seems to love Digital A here.. so im ditching Ecozonevivarium module. and the sound RF switch to control the 4 white LED lightstrips, to music mounted speakers on the canopy plugged into the Rf switch. Microphone on the Rf switch recieves the music and causes the lights to " flicker". ( thunder and lightening sounds) its timing the music and light when the misters come on..will be a chore... lol.. .. now looking for ( HO T5 dimmable Ballasts) going to be some homework..


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## ChrisK (Oct 28, 2008)

I would say go for a complete room (or close to it) build as well, if you move those huge tanks are too much of a bitch too move intact anyway. Check out www.vivaria.nl for some crazy ideas.


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

Is it too late to submit ideas? An idea I've had is to do a very large, vertical, hollow "C" shaped tank which you could walk in between. So it would be like a very large standing tube, but with the center walled in and a small section cut out of one side so you can walk in between the "walls" and have the tank wrapping around you. You would want to put it in the center of a room, and have no background in the tank, just plants and decor so you could see through it whether you are inside or outside of the "C". I'd be thinking of like a 6 foot internal diameter.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

ChrisK said:


> I would say go for a complete room (or close to it) build as well, if you move those huge tanks are too much of a bitch too move intact anyway. Check out Vivaria Projects - intro movie for some crazy ideas.


Is it just me, or are the only pics single thumbnails that you can't expand?


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## stevenhman (Feb 19, 2008)

Well, if you're good with electronics I would actually suggest the ReefAngel... maybe too late huh? I'd also skip dimmable t-5's as well and go with a PWM slope or parabola controlled LED strips. More colors, cloud effects, red/orange glow sunrise and sunset effects... etc.

Since you don't have time for DIY I'm sure you could find someone to do all the soldering on a reef forum somewhere. Get the Bridgelux Led's - lumen output is about 2 Cree's : 3 Bridgelux so it's really not that bad. I got mine from aquastyle online - making the heatsinks out of aluminum channel and angle.

Also, I would slow down and not buy ANYTHING at all until you have what you want to do figured out. I spent 3 months thinking about my big tank and I'm still taking it slow because there are still things I havent thought of yet that I'm finding out about while building.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Brotherly Monkey said:


> Is it just me, or are the only pics single thumbnails that you can't expand?


If you go in through the photo gallery, you can expand. Not as big as I like (whole screen big) but larger than the thumbnails.


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## asid61 (Mar 18, 2012)

You know, for $12,000 you could have converted a room into a viv, instead of buying a 3' x 2' x 4' viv.
What frogs are going in there? I would go with cobalts.


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## Jeff R (Jul 1, 2005)

Wait, are you planning another tank in addition to the one Nabors is sending you now?

If thats the case check out oregonreef.com. Steve's big tank is the general size and layout I would do for a BIG tank. The landscape gives the impression of a meandering stream through a valley. You could do 4x4x2H and run a stream down the valley back to front. Then cover the "hills" with dense foliage some exposed rock and wood. The tank would be great for a large egg feeder or group of ameerega. If you wanted to mix species you could talk to Mark Pepper about Peruvian darts that live sympatrically. 
I think the tank would do best in wall with maybe 18 inches sticking out on the display side.

Also, look up "dropoff reef tank". That would be a great design for a dart tank. If you cant find pics let me know and I'll look the next time I'm at a computer.


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## volsgirl (Mar 29, 2012)

I think it's great to see someone be able to do what most of us only dream about doing!

I appreciate you trying to get everyone involved to offer suggestions on planning, plants, equipment, lighting, etc...

Personally, I like all the suggestions....walk-in viv room, walk-thru viv, large display viv.......(go ahead and do one of each...and then I'll let you know which is my favorite .

The reason people work is to pay for the things they have to, and to buy the things they want. 
You earn it.....you spend it!!!


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

frogface said:


> If you go in through the photo gallery, you can expand. Not as big as I like (whole screen big) but larger than the thumbnails.


Well, la-di-da~!!!


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

Jeff R said:


> Wait, are you planning another tank in addition to the one Nabors is sending you now?
> 
> If thats the case check out oregonreef.com. Steve's big tank is the general size and layout I would do for a BIG tank. The landscape gives the impression of a meandering stream through a valley. You could do 4x4x2H and run a stream down the valley back to front. Then cover the "hills" with dense foliage some exposed rock and wood. The tank would be great for a large egg feeder or group of ameerega. If you wanted to mix species you could talk to Mark Pepper about Peruvian darts that live sympatrically.
> I think the tank would do best in wall with maybe 18 inches sticking out on the display side.
> ...



**** David sheepishly says ... " yes......"....****


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## pgravis (Dec 29, 2010)

The drop off tank would be cool, but a room would be way better! This is an exciting project. Can't wait to see the direction you decide to go


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## parkanz2 (Sep 25, 2008)

Took forever for me to find *this thread*. Totally on my list of things to do in life.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

Look at this one: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/75976-construction-journal-big-display-tank.html


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## VivariumWorks (Feb 27, 2008)

Not to be too picky about the finances and all but I was in California a number of years back and saw in person 2 of the famous viv's that make their annual debut in Reptiles Magazine when it's time for the annual viv column. (Yes they use the same pictures of the same 3 tanks every year.)

In any rate one of them was something like 2.5 feet front/back, ~7' long and ~5 tall. Don't recall exact measurements, but big. Either way, it's interior was real stone mortared together, with a large water section, and a large assortment of plants. It was nice but also came at a full $20K. $20K!! Was it worth anything close to this? Not a chance. Was it nice, oh yes! But $20K, no way. 
But now if it was something on par with this build: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...aurian-enterprises-custom-build-vivarium.html, I 'd be less skeptical. So frankly 12K for something that is hand designed, then molded, then cast, then seated PROPERLY into/outside of the tank, then all the other aspects added, isn't THAT bad. It is way more $ than I currently have for one enclosure, yes, but after seeing the quality of the casts by the moldmasters that Saurian uses, well, yea guys, that's about on par.

And frankly, 12K worth of verts and racks won't drop anywhere near as many jaws as I'm certain this piece will. I mean when was the last time you saw a rack of verts at a nationally touring zoo exhibit? But then again it's the enclosures and design that has always had me captivated by this hobby, not collecting the frogs so much.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

VivariumWorks said:


> Not to be too picky about the finances and all but I was in California a number of years back and saw in person 2 of the famous viv's that make their annual debut in Reptiles Magazine when it's time for the annual viv column. (Yes they use the same pictures of the same 3 tanks every year.)
> 
> In any rate one of them was something like 2.5 feet front/back, ~7' long and ~5 tall. Don't recall exact measurements, but big. Either way, it's interior was real stone mortared together, with a large water section, and a large assortment of plants. It was nice but also came at a full $20K. $20K!! Was it worth anything close to this? Not a chance. Was it nice, oh yes! But $20K, no way.
> But now if it was something on par with this build: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...aurian-enterprises-custom-build-vivarium.html, I 'd be less skeptical. So frankly 12K for something that is hand designed, then molded, then cast, then seated PROPERLY into/outside of the tank, then all the other aspects added, isn't THAT bad. It is way more $ than I currently have for one enclosure, yes, but after seeing the quality of the casts by the moldmasters that Saurian uses, well, yea guys, that's about on par.
> ...



Its interesting because you have worked with these particular materials before. So you know what's invloved. The planning, the molding, the casting, the painting, sealing. The plumbing ( through the backgroud with tiny drip lines that feed through the background to end where the mounted plants are. ..the custom wood canopy and cabinet stained, the size of the acrylic tank It's self on the last build 40 x 24 x 48 was around $1,150 ( just for the tank ) and the added thickness of it 3/8 instead of 1/4" and be measured flawlessly for the tank , and " insert" be seated properly. Fully automated misting system, fog machine, venting holes along the top front with nylon mesh ( prevent fruit fly escape and frogs ) with four or five fans in the canopy to keep things cool and vented. then ( shipping and crating) something this is size is $800.00 ( ALONE TO SHIP.) something this heavy. Math adds up.fast.. oh.. wait.. the poor guy has to make SOME profit for a business he runs. (A very GOOD one might I add) 6 months of his time.

Yeah.. I always loved those natural. "Zoo" enclosures

But this next CRAZY BUILD. I want it to be Something everyone could through their idea in. Since I'm custom ordering it ( it has nothing to do with any talent of mine, or bragging rights. Because I CANT .. ) I'm just excited to do this and have be " everyone's build" hence the name "Dendrobuild" I know fore sure. Some way I'm getting Something from ALL THE VENDORS FOR THIS build $ 12,500. I'm spending this because I'm dying to see ( how far the envelope be pushed... LOL.. ).. I have donated to dendroboard already to show my support, for allowing me to do this..to be in this hobby. its the only hobby that truly makes me happy..


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

frogface said:


> Look at this one: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/parts-construction/75976-construction-journal-big-display-tank.html


This is insane... I love that build.... It looks the build is " outside" not fabricated...


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## FIT BMX (Jun 10, 2011)

How about a tank that sits in the middle of a room, with something like a tree in the center, and a full 360 degrease of viewing.

Or maybe you should use the money to make the frogs you have happier, like some gold name tags for each frog, and some diamond inlays in the tree! They would like that!


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

FIT BMX said:


> How about a tank that sits in the middle of a room, with something like a tree in the center, and a full 360 degrease of viewing.
> 
> Or maybe you should use the money to make the frogs you have happier, like some gold name tags for each frog, and some diamond inlays in the tree! They would like that!


Kind like making them like " Paris Hilton frogs ??? Lol... 

The 360 idea is actually darn cool... Serious.. variance design did one that was amazing...


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## RarePlantBroker (Aug 3, 2008)

Don't know how I missed this thread yesterday....

I know a lot of folks push for the horizontal...but I think a properly designed vert tank would be more impressive. (something like 6'-7' tall x 5' wide x 2.5' deep). You could build tank into a wall so that the sides are solid (sealed wood/concrete/etc.), and that both front and back are glass. One side could be a solid "fixed" pane, and the other made like a shower door. Have the base 1' or so of the enclosure made like a shower pan to house the drainage and soil, and about a foot or so at the top as a light rack with MH lights and your misting heads.

The "sides" of the viv could be made to look like tree trunks (either epoxy, or you could use a large piece of PVC (4" or so) covered with cork tube. This would give you plenty of room for epiphytes on branches criss-crossing the tank, shinglers/vines climbing the trunk, and a couple of understory palms in the center floor!

Work towards making the entire vivarium a true biotope, and be able to grow a good cross-section of the plants from a particular locale....and grow them as they do in the wild.

You can also look at something like a Switched Power Supply for your lights, foggers, misters, fans, etc.--and wire them to your Router to have PC control for all of your vivariums mechanical functions.... (this is how I set up my display rack).

Contact me by PM if you have some ideas on what "biotope" you want to target, and I can help you with a plant list (and some plants....).


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## Scott (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm not sure why a $ Number is needed either unless you're really just trying to show off.

s



mordoria said:


> thats a lot of money to spend on a viv. you could build an extension on your house for that much. Get a new frog wing.
> I would just build a viv that I liked. Spending that much money because you can is just wasteful.


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## evannave (Jan 23, 2009)

It just goes to show you can't win on the internet post the budget your a show boat or you don't and what is the first question we always see on big builds like this "dude whats that cost" 

Evan


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

RarePlantBroker said:


> Don't know how I missed this thread yesterday....
> 
> I know a lot of folks push for the horizontal...but I think a properly designed vert tank would be more impressive. (something like 6'-7' tall x 5' wide x 2.5' deep). You could build tank into a wall so that the sides are solid (sealed wood/concrete/etc.), and that both front and back are glass. One side could be a solid "fixed" pane, and the other made like a shower door. Have the base 1' or so of the enclosure made like a shower pan to house the drainage and soil, and about a foot or so at the top as a light rack with MH lights and your misting heads.
> 
> ...


 
I will PM you for sure!! I have some plant questions and VERY curious how you wired everying to your router. I am going into the the O.R for my shift tonight. so i have to fly. but will PM you..

I got the space and measurements finalized early evening with what I can fit ( with a 30" high stand and canopy ) 60 x 32 x 48 ( 5' long 2.5' depth 4' high ) is the confirmed Size


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

evannave said:


> It just goes to show you can't win on the internet post the budget your a show boat or you don't and what is the first question we always see on big builds like this "dude whats that cost"
> 
> Evan



LoL .... yep..... You cant please everyone. yep....lol...... thats funny.. because the other thread i started... ( ALOT asked " how much it set me back, or how much it cost) i was kind of stand-off-ish it got to the point.. where.. I would blurt out the budget to settle any questions.

Everyone has thrown some AMAZING ideas on this thread. into this build!!! so much that i coppied and pasted EVERY idea on Word ( into list form with their name). 

I should have been a bit more careful to not say the budget.. but lesson learned.. 

I was just so excited to do this.!!


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

Scott said:


> I'm not sure why a $ Number is needed either unless you're really just trying to show off.
> 
> s



Number is needed to show my intent to support our hobby and vendors with a big project! I love this hobby! 5 years in it, I would rather dump money into this hobby then anywhere else.There is nothing like it!! and I love it more and more. Vendors need supporters to spend their money. so they can continue vending. wish more would do the same and not complain.


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## kitcolebay (Apr 7, 2012)

The simple fact...there is always the full spectrum of individuals. There's the people who see the good in everything and appreciates the small things(happy, positive, and optimistic by nature). And then there's the other end of the spectrum...the people who look for the bad in everything and appreciates very little(unhappy, negative, and pessimistic by nature). That's not an insult to anyone. It's what makes up this wonderful little world of ours. Without the bad, we wouldn't appreciate the good as much. Like you said, you can't please everyone. You can only do what you think is best. Happy Froggin"!


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

Great tank and personally I am glad you included the cost as it answers the question up front for everyone and made this thread a must see. I would also suggest to anyone that would complain about spending that type of cash, do you go up to neighbor that buys a boat and tell them they spent too much...talk about a money pit? I agree with Al, a biotope with plants from a specific region or country would be really nice. Any group of frogs will be really happy in that tank but certainly some of the larger oophaga like what UE just shipped would do really well in a tank like that.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

markpulawski said:


> Great tank and personally I am glad you included the cost as it answers the question up front for everyone and made this thread a must see. I would also suggest to anyone that would complain about spending that type of cash, do you go up to neighbor that buys a boat and tell them they spent too much...talk about a money pit? I agree with Al, a biotope with plants from a specific region or country would be really nice. Any group of frogs will be really happy in that tank but certainly some of the larger oophaga like what UE just shipped would do really well in a tank like that.




I will pm Al sometime today about that.  You actually threw me an idea. ( no joke). I got so caught up on the build. " frogs ". UE, I would like to get some frogs from them. How are they??? It seems a lot of people love them. What larger oophaga would you suggest??


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## markpulawski (Nov 19, 2004)

You have to get on the list and be very patient, UE will bring in more but demand is great for the Sylvaticus recently imported. There are 2 programs that will be bringing in Oophaga eventually Tesoro (Colombia) and WIKIRI (Ecuador), be happy if you can get on the list for either as the wait lists may be closed for the time being. Sylvaticus and Histo's are larger Oophaga and are bred sporadically here in the US now, many are only available for trade but a good search and a little patience will pay off as you should be able to find some being bred here, I would wait for what you want rather than go with what you can get.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

markpulawski said:


> You have to get on the list and be very patient, UE will bring in more but demand is great for the Sylvaticus recently imported. There are 2 programs that will be bringing in Oophaga eventually Tesoro (Colombia) and WIKIRI (Ecuador), be happy if you can get on the list for either as the wait lists may be closed for the time being. Sylvaticus and Histo's are larger Oophaga and are bred sporadically here in the US now, many are only available for trade but a good search and a little patience will pay off as you should be able to find some being bred here, I would wait for what you want rather than go with what you can get.


I'm on their webpage as we speak. Filling out the form. I have 7 other finished tanks that are 3 months established, so I'm ready for some frogs. . Thank you for the time in writing this. The waiting list will ( actually work" because this build will take 6 to 7 months.. 

Again. Thanks for the info.


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## dfrmav (Feb 22, 2011)

i think it looks awesome, but i think it's a bit disingenuous to put the cost in the title of the thread, as if the amount of money you spent on it should make us read this thread or care. it's like your motivations aren't in the right place. that's the vibe i got. other than that, good luck with it. if you have this kind of money, you should not skimp on frogs. if i had this tank, i'd get a group of pumilio or benedicta or something. maybe an assortment of different colored bastimentos, just to keep it interesting?


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I think the amount of money he has to spend on this is important. He wants advice on a masterpiece, not a 200 dollar tank. We (the advisers  ) need to know what he has to work with. 

I can't wait to watch this project progress


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

dfrmav said:


> i think it looks awesome, but i think it's a bit disingenuous to put the cost in the title of the thread, as if the amount of money you spent on it should make us read this thread or care. it's like your motivations aren't in the right place. that's the vibe i got. other than that, good luck with it. if you have this kind of money, you should not skimp on frogs. if i had this tank, i'd get a group of pumilio or benedicta or something. maybe an assortment of different colored bastimentos, just to keep it interesting?


I know.. the title was stupid... (I agree. )... But it did get everyone's attention I guess... Good and bad.. but hey.. I'm willing to take the heat if I'm going to go through with this .It came across as a " bragging " it was NOT MY INTENT to elevate or dismiss cheaper builds or make people feel down on spending as little, or as much. ( I HAVE NO BRAGGING RIGHTS BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY MY build.. someones doing it for me.) The cost was just to see ( how far I could push this thing... Since everyone here has an idea what the cost is to set up a basic set up is 570.00 when all is said and done.( unless someone is a TRUE DIY LIKE PUMILO.. IN which .. I'm not. Wish I had the man's skills.. but I don't.And it felt awesome to get everyone involved in this .. like to see where to take Automation, fog, making an actually bromiliad " tree" or something nutty.

On a good side. I did ( group of 6 Benedicta ) from a ( Vendor ) on frog day and only frogs I buy will be captive bred and from a breeder that has worked real hard to get their babies born.


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

frogface said:


> I think the amount of money he has to spend on this is important. He wants advice on a masterpiece, not a 200 dollar tank. We (the advisers  ) need to know what he has to work with.
> 
> I can't wait to watch this project progress



You guys are DEFINITELY my advisors. That's why I MUCH PREFER to ask everyone's input ( and actually listen )... more minds are far better than my own I'm afraid.. LOL..


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## bmartin04983 (Oct 20, 2011)

erlese, thanks for taking your time to share your project! I look forward to the pictures to come! Also, a bigger thanks for putting money into the hobby and helping to keeping the hobby's economy healthy! A healthy economy in the hobby benefits all of us froggers greatly, so again, thank you!


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## erlese (Jun 11, 2008)

bmartin04983 said:


> erlese, thanks for taking your time to share your project! I look forward to the pictures to come! Also, a bigger thanks for putting money into the hobby and helping to keeping the hobby's economy healthy! A healthy economy in the hobby benefits all of us froggers greatly, so again, thank you!



I see down bellow you have Bastis gold dust ??? How are they ?? Their coloring is outstanding ( to me ) because they would almost ( stand out ) against the greenery in a planted tank??

to support those vendors, honestly would be the best thanks.. ( but thank you.. very nice of you to say that.. serious ) .I know these vendors work so hard to please everyone, they do these shows, haul their stuff everywhere. They Deal with A LOT OF individuals who either complain, or dont try to work with them as well as they should.. Sometimes It's a thankless job they do in some instances. I lost my job in 2008. Hospital downsized and laid us nurses off. So I couldn't contribute to the hobby.. ( that sucked). I worked so hard to get back up this past 4 years. I am going to put photos on for sure. This thread will take some time. In one week ( hoping) for some photos to kick this off.


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## SNAKEMANVET (Dec 14, 2011)

Great viv,will be really nice once planted and brought to life.Please keep us updated.


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## Brotherly Monkey (Jul 20, 2010)

markpulawski said:


> I would also suggest to anyone that would complain about spending that type of cash, do you go up to neighbor that buys a boat and tell them they spent too much...talk about a money pit?


you don't?

PS this likely explains my lack of invites to Christmas parties...


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## FIT BMX (Jun 10, 2011)

Do you have a basement? If you do, you could put everything down there. Like your sump the misting setup, humidifier, and control panel. It could give you a nice clean look.


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Any updates on the viv? 

2.2 bassleri 2.3 E.A Santa Isabella 1.1 tinctorious Patricia 0.1 Green Sipplewini 0.0.3 Leucs


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## VicSkimmr (Jan 24, 2006)

Can't believe I missed this. Awesome tank and I can't wait to see what you do with it. I also think it's the perfect size, that tree must look ENORMOUS. Your tank is 4" wider than mine but is otherwise identical in size, I can't imagine having such an awesome piece in it.

We need more people on this side of the pond with extravagant displays instead of rooms full of tiny tanks, so kudos! It's very rewarding to plan out and execute one massive tank, and it's even more fun to watch it develop into it's own ecosystem.


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## amplexed (Jun 17, 2010)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott 
I'm not sure why a $ Number is needed either unless you're really just trying to show off.

s 


Number is needed to show my intent to support our hobby and vendors with a big project! I love this hobby! 5 years in it, I would rather dump money into this hobby then anywhere else.There is nothing like it!! and I love it more and more. Vendors need supporters to spend their money. so they can continue vending. wish more would do the same and not complain. 


*Absolutely! Could not agree more. Vendors also need supporters to spend their money, so they can continue to SPONSOR Dendroboard!

Hobbiests ought to be proud to support vendors, especially DB sponsors. Can I get items cheaper elsewhere? Sometimes. But I think that this is a dangerous trend which will adversely affect the 'hobby' (I hate that word), if it hasn't already done so...*


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## Taron (Sep 23, 2009)

Holy crap my house only cost $10,000 geeze

dart frogs, fish, plants, and tons of other critters


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## Buddysfrogs (Mar 29, 2012)

Are you in Florida? 

2.2 bassleri 2.3 E.A Santa Isabella 1.1 tinctorious Patricia 0.1 Green Sipplewini 0.0.3 Leucs


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## thedude (Nov 28, 2007)

Man this sounds awesome. Make a tank that's big enough you could fit an actual log in there. I'm talking an uprooted tree basically. Imagine the bugs that could live in there! And when it got covered in plants it would look amazing.

I say go for a tank that is mostly horizontal but still very tall. Then you could do a terrestrial species and an arboreal one. Personally, I'd go with the Sisa/chrome green bassleri and benedicta. Although if it was going to big huge like that, I may include some glass frogs and tree frogs


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## DRep (Jun 2, 2009)

no disrespect, but you mentioned in your other custom tank thread that you're inexperienced with planting/landscaping. Great selection and placement would put a viv like this over the edge, so do you plan on bringing someone in to assist with the process?


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## Tim F (Jan 27, 2006)

^^^
Isn't that what this post is all about? He's asking for advice from everyone on the board willing to assist with this build. Why would he need to bring someone in? It's pretty clear that this is intended to be a collaberative effort, and there's more than enough experience to be mined here.


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## tnwalkers (Jul 15, 2012)

any chance for an update?


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Buy a college fund! Or part of the rainforest with 12.5k!!


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## ridgerider (Dec 6, 2011)

Any updates???


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## jeeperrs (Jan 14, 2010)

I wonder if he is annoyed by all the people jumping down his throat about the price. However, those same people quickly ask "Can I ask what that set you back" on other peoples posts who don't want to say what they spent. This is why we can't have any fun on dendroboard  It will be cool to see how it comes out if he posts any updates.


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## frogface (Feb 20, 2010)

I *think* the OP is in the process of moving.


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## Dendroguy (Dec 4, 2010)

If you REALLY want to benefit this hobby, build a $10,000 viv, but use the rest of your money to get a pair or trio of the most critically endangered species of PDF you can find.


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## The Wolfe (Jul 17, 2012)

LOL!! What He Said ^
But I would still would love an update.
bud don't let people piss you off it is your money.

The Wolfe
P.S. I bet a $12,500 would be a great statement peace in any home, or a office!


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## ridgerider (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm within reasonable driving distance of the OP, and just really would like to be invited to see it!


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## hockeyboy (Oct 7, 2012)

That is a lot of money just for one tank


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## flyingSquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

I was, and still am, really interested in this build. I hope the OP will eventually continue the thread on here. Hopefully the negative, cynical comments were not permanently off-putting. If the OP is reading this, I hope you will be so kind as to come back and share the build with us, at least keeping in mind those of us that are supportive of your concepts.


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## Beeguy123 (Oct 6, 2011)

I would really like an update on this build too. It seems like its a very cool project that I'd die to see haha.


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## frankpayne32 (Mar 17, 2007)

Sigh, I hope we get to see this build. I hope the negativity doesn't keep you from sharing this build. I love the positive attitude and willingness to get everyone involved and ask for help. If you feel comfortable sharing how much you have to spend that's totally your choice. It's very relevant considering you are asking everyone for help in the planning process so we have an idea of what equipment, size, frogs, plants, etc. we can recommend to you. Some people are just sensitive about money. There seems to be just as many people, if not more, on here that aren't hating on you and are supportive. Try to focus on that.

I have experience working with large displays and the first thing I will recommend is make sure you have plenty of access for maintenance. I recommend multiple points of entry or at the very least one large point of entry that will allow you to completely enter the exhibit for maintenance. Believe me there's nothing worse than trying to clean 500 gallon exhibit through a two foot hole that your shoulders can barely fit through!

Best of luck,


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## dendrorani (Jan 30, 2009)

The question is not about the 12000$ you wanna spend. My questionning is that for 12000$ you would have starfire glass, a 5000$ lighting system, a 2000$ misting system, 3000$ worth of plants, 1000$ worth of frogs etc...which is in my opinion not realistic.

In my experience this is far fetched. The idea of spending 12000$ is great but a 48x30ishx48 would yield with top quality...
1500$ starfire glass
500$ for a mistking system with accessories
1500$ for an amazing LED system (using cree with dimmable drivers....) for a 48x32 inch surface area
2000$ worth of plants for your volume (stretching a bit)
backgroud and false bottom etc... 600$
misc...1000$ (fans, wiring, piping and whatever there is)

That brings a stretched total for amazing equipment and plants to 7100$
In my opinion a project like this would cost 4000-5000$ plus frogs

In hopes this was helpful to you...
Who knows maybe it would make you spend an extra 7000$ worth of frogs to absorb your budget 

In any case,looking forward to see your project along the way.

Again, we are not here to judge your budget. We are here to maybe give you a better aproximation of what a project like this really costs.

Regards,

Rani


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## pnwpdf (Nov 9, 2010)

I like this! I think you chose the absolute best route with a single large display vivarium. Building a bunch of small vivariums would probably end up looking like crap. Who wants to see a wall of tiny vivs? I would prefer a single giant display over 100 normal vivs any day. Easier to take care of, more efficient use of your time and money, and you don't run the risk of looking like an animal hoarder to some pedestrian that looks in your window! (that last part was my wife's input)


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## Jungleboy (Dec 24, 2011)

Did this ever happen?


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## GRIMM (Jan 18, 2010)

dendrorani said:


> The question is not about the 12000$ you wanna spend. My questionning is that for 12000$ you would have starfire glass, a 5000$ lighting system, a 2000$ misting system, 3000$ worth of plants, 1000$ worth of frogs etc...which is in my opinion not realistic.
> 
> In my experience this is far fetched. The idea of spending 12000$ is great but a 48x30ishx48 would yield with top quality...
> 1500$ starfire glass
> ...



Maybe that’s what the materials may be worth, but you forgot to include the time/experience costs involved to get someone else to make a custom tank for you. I sure as hell wont build someone a big display for material costs out of the goodness of my heart. Someone else’s time, attention to detail, and daily pain in the ass is worth a lot if you don’t feel like, or simply dont have to skills to build something yourself. 

Just think of the costs involved to get a room in your home remodeled. You wouldn’t think twice about paying the carpenters money for their time, why should it be different for viv builders?

Oh crap, your car's air conditioner broke? "That'll be 100$ for parts and 500$ for labor please"....That’s how the service business works unfortunately haha

Im not taking a stab at you though. But after receiving countless emails of people asking me for custom displays, and they are surprised it costs more then a couple hundred bucks to get something built, it just drives me nuts. 

Anyways, I hope this tank eventually gets built. Its been a while since there has been a big new display on the forums.


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## FIT BMX (Jun 10, 2011)

I have been watching this thread as well, I would really like to see this happen!


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## Splash&Dash (Oct 16, 2012)

frankpayne32 said:


> I have experience working with large displays and the first thing I will recommend is make sure you have plenty of access for maintenance. I recommend multiple points of entry or at the very least one large point of entry that will allow you to completely enter the exhibit for maintenance. Believe me there's nothing worse than trying to clean 500 gallon exhibit through a two foot hole that your shoulders can barely fit through!
> 
> Best of luck,


Yeah, the first time you learn that you didn't really consider the issue of access enough is a pretty swift kick in the pants.


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## ridgerider (Dec 6, 2011)

I, too, have been interested in this build, because the OP was from Palm Springs, CA, which is within driving distance from where I live. (Of course, I was hoping to eventually be invited to see this build firsthand). I seem to remember seeing somewhere on this board that the OP was going to be moving to the Northwest, so the build wouldn't be happening -- at least not in the near future, and not near me.


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## joshbaker14t (Jun 11, 2012)

You guys can stop worrying, I'm planning a $12,501 build!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2


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## TheCoop (Oct 24, 2012)

Well hurry up and get on it would ya?!?! We need some eye candy!


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## bryguy514 (Jan 5, 2013)

Nice, spend your money how you want. I spent double that on my reef tank. Just getting into vivs and I'm buying AI SOL lights and I have my old reefkeeper running everything. Still deciding on a misting system though. Right now I have a automatic sprinkler valve reduced to 1/4" tubing on a timer from my ice maker haha.


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

bryguy514 said:


> Nice, spend your money how you want. I spent double that on my reef tank. Just getting into vivs and I'm buying AI SOL lights and I have my old reefkeeper running everything. Still deciding on a misting system though. Right now I have a automatic sprinkler valve reduced to 1/4" tubing on a timer from my ice maker haha.


would a pump from one of those ice makers work as a pump for a small misting system? I just have a small 10 gallon viv and I'm not looking to pay $100 for a misting system lol

Edit:
nvm stupid question they are all made like aquarium pumps not like the pumps on the misting systems. I thought they would be a smaller version of those pumps lol


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## bryguy514 (Jan 5, 2013)

There is no pump for my misting system. I put a jaco T fitting in my ice maker line and ran it to my tank. It runs off the city water pressure.


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## edwardsatc (Feb 17, 2004)

bryguy514 said:


> There is no pump for my misting system. I put a jaco T fitting in my ice maker line and ran it to my tank. It runs off the city water pressure.


So you're misting with chlorinated water?


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## DragonSpirit1185 (Dec 6, 2010)

edwardsatc said:


> So you're misting with chlorinated water?


I second this question....
That is a really really bad idea.
We all use R/O or distilled or at least some form of spring water if neither of those. 

I'm not talking about this anymore though lol cause I don't want to seem like I'm hijacking


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## slipperheads (Oct 17, 2007)

Just a 10gal and you think you need a misting system?! 

Oh brother


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## TerraFerma (Feb 20, 2011)

DragonSpirit1185 said:


> I second this question....
> That is a really really bad idea.
> We all use R/O or distilled or at least some form of spring water if neither of those.
> 
> I'm not talking about this anymore though lol cause I don't want to seem like I'm hijacking


Not sure if he is doing this but many icemakers use the fridge water filter


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## Morgan Freeman (Feb 26, 2009)

Spend your money how you want. I'm sure I could easily spend this much on a viv and I'd much rather have a huge display vivarium than loads of separate tanks.


Just don't waste money on things you don't need.


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## josh_r (Feb 4, 2005)

If he has the money to spend on a viv with that kind of price tag, he is entitled to it. I know I would love to have one.... My only advice.... with all the money that is going into this build, be sure to strategically plant it and keep it trimmed... Otherwise your $12,000 build will turn into another $500 build.... Meaning all that hard work and money gets hidden behind what every other viv has... plants. don´t hide those unique features to the build.

I am interested to see this.


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## InfiniteDR3AMER (Jun 4, 2015)

So was this ever built? Post the pics!!!


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## daviss_36 (Mar 20, 2015)

Was wondering the same

Sent from my SM-N915W8 using Tapatalk


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## Rocktaki (Apr 4, 2018)

Wonder why this guy never updated, to embarrassed that his wife wouldn’t let him build it or did some other life event take over and he forgot about dendroboard, hmmm🤔


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## TeddytheFinger (May 8, 2019)

I was excited to see this until I saw the first posts date....sad face


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