# What is this thing?



## mrzoggs

it wiggles around... I cant seem to find it when i google. I guess I'm not googling the right thing. Any help?


my step dad thinks because I have roaches, isopods, springtails, fruitflies, and a mantis that Im the master bug man and should be able to hatch this thing..... Its so ugly that I dont want anything to do with it so its going to sit downstairs with him until I find out what it is.


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## Soldier17

I assume you found it outdoors? If you found that in one of your tanks... wow!


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## Reef_Haven

Looks like a moth pupa.


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## Afemoralis

It's a pupa- but of what I don't know. My guess would be a moth. Most beetle pupae have visible appendages.


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## mrzoggs

Soldier17 said:


> I assume you found it outdoors? If you found that in one of your tanks... wow!


If I found this in one of my tanks I would take my frogs out and throw my whole tank in a bon fire.... 



Reef_Haven said:


> Looks like a moth pupa.


He was thinking it was a moth too... I would think itd be a HUGE moth.. this thing is BIG



Afemoralis said:


> It's a pupa- but of what I don't know. My guess would be a moth. Most beetle pupae have visible appendages.


I was thinking it was a beetle just because of how big it was... But thanks for that information. I learn something new every day on this site


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## tarbo96

I vote for moth.


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## mrzoggs

yes I think so too. I looked moth larva on google and found similar pictures. Maybe Ill jar it up and see what kind it is when it comes out.


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## frankpayne32

mrzoggs said:


> it wiggles around... I cant seem to find it when i google. I guess I'm not googling the right thing. Any help?
> 
> 
> my step dad thinks because I have roaches, isopods, springtails, fruitflies, and a mantis that Im the master bug man and should be able to hatch this thing..... Its so ugly that I dont want anything to do with it so its going to sit downstairs with him until I find out what it is.


I am fairly certain that is a luna moth (Actias luna) pupa based on appearance and size. Sweet find. Hatched a few in our greenhouse. Looks the same as what I've seen.


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## Splash&Dash

frankpayne32 said:


> I am fairly certain that is a luna moth (Actias luna) pupa based on appearance and size. Sweet find. Hatched a few in our greenhouse. Looks the same as what I've seen.


I understand they are gorgeous moths, but weren't you concerned about present and future plant damage?


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## epiphytes etc.

Splash&Dash said:


> I understand they are gorgeous moths, but weren't you concerned about present and future plant damage?


I've personally reached the point of nerdom that I cultivate plants just for the insects to eat.


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## frankpayne32

Splash&Dash said:


> I understand they are gorgeous moths, but weren't you concerned about present and future plant damage?


It was in a butterfly greenhouse


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## JimO

Oh man, I am sorry for your loss...



epiphytes etc. said:


> I've personally reached the point of nerdom that I cultivate plants just for the insects to eat.


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## kitcolebay

Reminds me of an image in "Silence of the Lambs"! Just sayin'!

-Chris


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## GRIMM

I chased a few Luna Moths around in Skyrim before  Pretty cool you might have found a real one!


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## billschwinn

I vote Sphinx Moth.


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## Ed

I'm going to vote with Bill.. A luna moth or other native silk moth pupates inside a tough silk cocoon.... A lack of cocoon can be used to rule out that group. 

Ed


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## mrzoggs

thanks again everyone. Ill keep it in some dirt and hopefully have some good pictures when it comes out. Ill make sure to post them in this thread


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## Tinctoc

it does look like a sphinx moth pupae.


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## frankpayne32

If that were a sphinx moth then the proboscis "tube" has been removed... unless it's not visible in the pic because of the angle.

Was it found in the soil or attached to a leaf with some silk?

Either way, definitely interested to see what it morphs in to!


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## mrzoggs

found in soil. no tube.


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## Ed

The proboscis isn't always clearly visible in all of the sphinx moth pupae. It took a little while to find a decent image of this but see for example One-Eyed Sphinx moth, with eggs and caterpillars and pupa | The Backyard Arthropod Project 

Ed


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## mrzoggs

Yup, does look like that... Although I think this one is bigger that the one with the penny sitting next to it.


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## frankpayne32

Ed said:


> The proboscis isn't always clearly visible in all of the sphinx moth pupae. It took a little while to find a decent image of this but see for example One-Eyed Sphinx moth, with eggs and caterpillars and pupa | The Backyard Arthropod Project
> 
> Ed


Ahh, never seen one without the tube. Since it was found in soil I'm definitely changing my vote to sphinx moth too.


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## epiphytes etc.

I'm pretty sure it's a noctuid.

EDIT: either way, it should be kept quite cool over winter.


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## Shinosuke

GRIMM said:


> I chased a few Luna Moths around in Skyrim before  Pretty cool you might have found a real one!


I wish I didn't get this reference...

It would have been awesome had it been a Luna, they are beautiful critters. 

eta: Regardless it's a cool find, and I'm curios to see what comes out. Please, do post pictures when it happens!


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## frog dude

I used to see those all the time. I would dig them up in the ground. I am fairly certain that it is not luna moth. I have seen plenty of those chrysalis-type things in southern California, and, not once, have I seen a wild luna moth before. 

I'm not saying it is not a luna moth, but I have kept and raised the white-lined sphinx from larvae to adult and I have to say, that looks not just similar, but exactly like mine did. Mine also wiggled around whenever disturbed. 

You say you found it in the ground? White-lined sphinx larvae bury themselves in the ground and then pupate, forming what the OP has now. Mine lasted about two weeks before the adult emerged from the chrysalis into the beautiful white-lined sphinx. 

I, without doubt, believe this is a sphinx pupa. This is coming from a guy who spent 6 years keeping, studying, collecting, releasing, and breeding various types of butterflies, moths, and sphinxes.


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## Ed

frog dude said:


> I used to see those all the time. I would dig them up in the ground. I am fairly certain that it is not luna moth. I have seen plenty of those chrysalis-type things in southern California, and, not once, have I seen a wild luna moth before.


I'm not surprised that you didn't ever see Luna moths in California since they aren't found out there. 
Thier range is


> Common. Nova Scotia west to Saskatchewan and eastern North Dakota; south to central Florida, the Gulf Coast, and eastern Texas.


 from Butterflies and Moths of North America | collecting and sharing data about Lepidoptera 


Some comments 

Ed


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## frog dude

Ed said:


> I'm not surprised that you didn't ever see Luna moths in California since they aren't found out there.
> Thier range is from Butterflies and Moths of North America | collecting and sharing data about Lepidoptera
> 
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


I know. I am stating that I have seen the exact same species of pupa before in southern california. Nonetheless, it might be a Luna moth as I know little about them. 

Edit: as a read one of Ed's posts here and a quick google search on Luna moths I find that Luna moths do have a silk-like fabric around themselves before pupating. I vote Sphinx.


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## mrzoggs

its in a fruit fly cup in dirt sitting outside... i put it outside so its in the same weather environment. I misted it a couple times just so it could be damp. Not sure if its going to hurt it or not, but i figured itd be the same thing as it raining outside. Its on my front porch so I definitely wont forget. Ill be checking it every day and cant wait to take pictures before I let it go. I have seen what I thought was a luna moth in this area. I cant find the picture I took of it. I got a new phone and it didnt save on my sd card. I even asked the people that I sent the picture to if they still had it. Cant find it. Either way, moths are freaking neat... especially the big beautiful ones.


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## billschwinn

mrzoggs said:


> its in a fruit fly cup in dirt sitting outside... i put it outside so its in the same weather environment. I misted it a couple times just so it could be damp. Not sure if its going to hurt it or not, but i figured itd be the same thing as it raining outside. Its on my front porch so I definitely wont forget. Ill be checking it every day and cant wait to take pictures before I let it go. I have seen what I thought was a luna moth in this area. I cant find the picture I took of it. I got a new phone and it didnt save on my sd card. I even asked the people that I sent the picture to if they still had it. Cant find it. Either way, moths are freaking neat... especially the big beautiful ones.


You need to re-create the area where you found it. In a dirt filed cup is not good enough. It will be too shallow to protect from the elements. it will either freeze or hatch too early due to warming from sunlight. Also, they drown very easily , I have never found them in moist soil. I really think it would be best if you could place it back where you found it for the best chance of survival. .I would like to see what kind it is too, but not at the expense of the animal, but thats just me. Bill


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## Ed

billschwinn said:


> You need to re-create the area where you found it. In a dirt filed cup is not good enough. It will be too shallow to protect from the elements. it will either freeze or hatch too early due to warming from sunlight. Also, they drown very easily , I have never found them in moist soil. I really think it would be best if you could place it back where you found it for the best chance of survival. .I would like to see what kind it is too, but not at the expense of the animal, but thats just me. Bill


He could always make a cage over it to keep the squirrels, or other vermin from eating it as well as containing it when it emerges until he gets to identify it. 

Ed


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## mrzoggs

it was only about an inch under the dirt. I will try and create something a little better. It was in the flower bed about an inch under dirt. Its going to rain here today anyways so Im not sure what to do about it getting wet. Ill try to do something like ed said.


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## Julio

let it morph out and lets see what it is


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## billschwinn

Ed said:


> He could always make a cage over it to keep the squirrels, or other vermin from eating it as well as containing it when it emerges until he gets to identify it.
> 
> Ed


Try an old bird cage partially buried over the area where you bury it.


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## mrzoggs

billschwinn said:


> Try an old bird cage partially buried over the area where you bury it.




good idea. I think I have one in the garage somewhere. if not, Im sure i have one of those plastic crates or something that it wont be able to get through. I checked when I got home, and its still in there wiggling around. Its supposed to rain pretty heavy through the night though.


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## slipperheads

Can't wait to see this juicy sucker come out!


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## mrzoggs

I cant believe whats gonna actually come from this thing.... Something so weird and ugly looking is going to turn into something so sweet.


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## Dendroguy

'Tis Hyalophora cecropia, North Americas largest moth! Looks to be female. They are very graceful and are quite bold, readily clinging to ones body for some amount of time, I had one on my shirt for nearly half a day!

D


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## Ed

Dendroguy said:


> 'Tis Hyalophora cecropia, North Americas largest moth! Looks to be female. They are very graceful and are quite bold, readily clinging to ones body for some amount of time, I had one on my shirt for nearly half a day!
> 
> D


Except Cecropias also spin a silk cocoon and don't pupate in the soil... Cecropia Moth Life Cycle - Hyalophora cecropia

Some comments 

Ed


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## billschwinn

Ed said:


> Except Cecropias also spin a silk cocoon and don't pupate in the soil... Cecropia Moth Life Cycle - Hyalophora cecropia
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


Thank you Ed, you beat me to it.


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## Dendroguy

Ed said:


> Except Cecropias also spin a silk cocoon and don't pupate in the soil... Cecropia Moth Life Cycle - Hyalophora cecropia
> 
> Some comments
> 
> Ed


Ha! Thanks Ed. 'Twas mistaken I was.


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## BrianC

Looks very much like a rosy maple moth to me - one of our smaller but more striking silk moths here's my photo.


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## hydrophyte

I bet it's some kind of sphingid hawk moth.


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## Ed

BrianC said:


> Looks very much like a rosy maple moth to me - one of our smaller but more striking silk moths here's my photo.


Then it is a world record sized one.. Rosy Maple Moth - Dryocampa rubicunda - BugGuide.Net 

Ed


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## BrianC

Ed said:


> Then it is a world record sized one.. Rosy Maple Moth - Dryocampa rubicunda - BugGuide.Net
> 
> Ed


I suppose that may be a bit large - Wagner lists the larvae as 5 cm. All of the ceratocampine saturniids pupate without a cocoon, and I've noticed that forked last segment on them before. It may not be a reliable feature but for fun I'm putting my bet on that group vs. Sphingidae. I guess with any luck we'll see in the spring!


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## Ed

I get the rosy maple moths at out house lights and in 30 plus years I've never seen one that large (and I really like them so I keep an eye out for them). 

Hmm, good point, given that, it is possible that it could be _Citheronia regalis_ or _Eacles imperialis _as neither of those spins a cocoon and both do pupate in the soil. 

Some comments

Ed


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## Groundhog

I'm with Bill and Ed on this one, I remember Sphinx moths as a kid on LI. Haven't seen them in the Bronx (or tomato hornworms, for that matter).


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## Pyrosnowman

I am really curious about what this is now! Can't wait to see the emerging photos, and hopefully the wait won't be too much longer!!


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## mrzoggs

not sure how long they take to hatch, but it is still wiggling around in the dirt and looks the same.


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