# Fruit Flies: Coffee filter vs. Excelsior



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

So started making my own culture for fruit flies. It has been doing very well and i am saving tons of money, but here is my question. When i use a coffee filter i get less flies than if i use some excelsior that i bought from http://www.blackjungle.com, has anyone else had this problem, is there a better cheaper way to get the same results.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Yes its a tough call... I recently switched from coffee filters back to excelsior, and while production is up the mess is enough to drive me crazy.


----------



## defaced (May 23, 2005)

That seems to be the trend. Though the trade off with how much of a mess excelsior makes keeps me from using it. 

How many coffee filters are you using? I was using 6ish until I bought some cultures and saw that the place I bought them from used what looked to be a whole stack of filters (50ish), and the production from those were always great. So I upped my filter count to 25ish and production has increased dramatically. There's no room for the filters to collapse and the files have more than enough surface area.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

> How many coffee filters are you using? I was using 6ish until I bought some cultures and saw that the place I bought them from used what looked to be a whole stack of filters (50ish), and the production from those were always great. So I upped my filter count to 25ish and production has increased dramatically. There's no room for the filters to collapse and the files have more than enough surface area.


So im guessing that might be part of my problem, i am only using one. :? oh well, i will try 25 tonight and see how that works, i was deffinetly having the problem of them collapsing into the media. 

Have i mentioned how helpful this site is. I have learned so much in the last 3 days than i have in the last 5 months of research. Thanks


----------



## spydrmn12285 (Oct 24, 2006)

I use 4-5 coffee filters I get pretty good production? I guess I haven't really seen a huge booming culture to make an assessment on how mine do...but I have plenty of flies (actually too many) for my two frogs from making a culture a week.


----------



## wishIwereAnExpert (Jul 18, 2005)

defaced said:


> How many coffee filters are you using? I was using 6ish until I bought some cultures and saw that the place I bought them from used what looked to be a whole stack of filters (50ish), and the production from those were always great. So I upped my filter count to 25ish and production has increased dramatically. There's no room for the filters to collapse and the files have more than enough surface area.


That's obviously not feasible for some of us with larger collections...25 cultures X 25 filters per culture would be 625 coffee filters a week...I'd probably wipe out the grocery stores weekly stock.

Me, I use excelsior--I hate the mess, but love the extra flies. For me that trade-off is worth it. For others, it might not be.

Another advantage to coffee filters, BTW, is that they suck up excess moisture in the media, and slowly dose it back out in the course of the culture's life, and so I've found that cultures with coffee filters don't get as dried out near the end of their production.

-Solly


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I like the results of lots of coffee filters too, but hate sitting there accordian folding them so they don't collapse.
Yeilds from the way I do the coffee filters far surpass the yields with cultures using excelsior from michaels or the likes...
I would like to try some of the wider excelsior that is going round nowdays...supposed to be way better than the craft store crap.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

> I like the results of lots of coffee filters too, but hate sitting there accordian folding them so they don't collapse.
> Yeilds from the way I do the coffee filters far surpass the yields with cultures using excelsior from michaels or the likes...


So you accordian fold your coffee filters, how many do you use. If you dont mind giving me a walk through of how you prepare them using coffee filters. I would really appreiciate it.


----------



## Dancing frogs (Feb 20, 2004)

I use a crap load of them!
Like Mike said, I probably use around 25.

What I do, is buy the cheapest, unbleached filters, basket style, I take each filter, accordian fold it so the pleats are around 1/2" give or take, then when that is done, I fold them in half the long way, then I use a butter knife and put the tip of the kinfe in the crease you just made, then I use the knife to poke the filter down into the media. The folds, and the high number of filters used per culture, are what keeps the filters from collapsing, which is of utmost importance, as a colapsed filter will trap the larvae and flies in the media, where they cannot get out and pupate, and later become flies.

Oh, and you might want to know, doing it this way takes me about 6 minutes per culture, so if you have a lot of big eaters, you may want to just stick with excelsior.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Im not sure where or how far reaching GFS is but you can buy huge amounts of coffee filters for a good price.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

> Im not sure where or how far reaching GFS is but you can buy huge amounts of coffee filters for a good price.


Sorry im not sure what GFS is, is it a store?


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Gordon Food Services

When I did use coffee filters I used between 4-6 per culture.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

> Gordon Food Services


Oh okay, well when i looked at their website they dont cross the mississippi river. But its cool they have one in Canton, OH and i am moving there in a month so i will pick some up there next time.


----------



## WntrMute2 (Mar 3, 2005)

I have 3 suggestions, all easier or cleaner than what you guys are doing. 1) Filter floss from an aquarium store works well. You can buy a huge bag for a few bucks. Tease it apart a bit and put it in the culture. 2) There is a product called "raffte" I think. it is available at Michaels and the like. It is long strips of corm stalks or other grass. Works like excelsier but doesn't crumble. I would grab a small bundle of strips (they are a couple of feet long) and bundle them up vertically bufore inserting them in the culture. 3) Finally, my current method, clean, neat, no special trips to a specialty store....parchment paper. Doesn't break down, cheap and easy. Every big supermarket has it. Tear a piece of about 3 feet long, crumple lenghtwise and I then wrap it around my hand a few times. Then into the culture so the long axis is up and down. Production is great. Works well with both Hydei and melanogaster. Try any of the above over coffee filters or excelsier and you'll be happy.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Are you really moving to Canton, OH? I was born there and lived there for years. 



crashnt20 said:


> > Gordon Food Services
> 
> 
> Oh okay, well when i looked at their website they dont cross the mississippi river. But its cool they have one in Canton, OH and i am moving there in a month so i will pick some up there next time.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

> Are you really moving to Canton, OH? I was born there and lived there for years.


Well after speaking to my wife (she is originally from Ohio, i was born and raise in Los Angeles) we are moving to Dover, OH which is 20 min south of Canton. But in one month we are packing everything up and moving, im scared to death about transporting my frogs though.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

> Filter floss from an aquarium store works well. You can buy a huge bag for a few bucks. Tease it apart a bit and put it in the culture.


Can i just use the polyester fiber from my what you stuff into pillows? is that the same stuff.


----------



## kyle1745 (Feb 15, 2004)

Dover is not too bad, nice little town. Not a lot there.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

Thats what my wife says, but our entire family lives in Dover, her family and mine moved there a year ago. So thank god there are breeders in Columbus, i was afraid i was going to have to order everything online.


----------



## DizzyD (Sep 19, 2006)

I had a bag of coco fiber lying around and I just stuff a handful of it into the culture containers. Doesn't work the best but I'm really sick of looking at that big bag. :evil: Each of my cultures seem to last about a month or so and they definitely produce enough flies for my crew. Just have a few going at a time. (for safety of course) 8)


----------



## reggorf (Oct 24, 2006)

> But in one month we are packing everything up and moving, im scared to death about transporting my frogs though.


good luck with the move! Canton is about 1 hour from us(me and cobaltsinoh). good to see some more froggers in the area.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

> good luck with the move! Canton is about 1 hour from us(me and cobaltsinoh). good to see some more froggers in the area.


I was actually worried that Ohio wouldnt have frogs, Los Angeles doesnt have that many stores that sell frogs. But definetly getting excited for the move.


----------



## crashnt20 (Dec 28, 2006)

So i am trying several techniques today. I have already tried the parchment paper and the excelsior (which you can get from Michael's). Tonight i am going to try the nilon filter fiber. I will let everyone know how they turn out.


----------



## joeyo90 (Nov 5, 2006)

wishIwereAnExpert said:


> defaced said:
> 
> 
> > How many coffee filters are you using? I was using 6ish until I bought some cultures and saw that the place I bought them from used what looked to be a whole stack of filters (50ish), and the production from those were always great. So I upped my filter count to 25ish and production has increased dramatically. There's no room for the filters to collapse and the files have more than enough surface area.
> ...


costco sells coffee filter packs with about 700 per bag


----------



## DaFrogMan (Oct 8, 2004)

I thought about switching to excelsor, but then I found a trick with the filters that seems to produce more, and they seem to produce longer.

I make the media as normal, then take half of a toilet paper tube and put it into the media so that the hole faces up (not to the side)

Then I take 7 coffee filters, and stick my finger in the middle and fold them into a tight cone. Then I put a staple about an inch from the bottom. Then I pull the filters down 1 by 1 - it sounds like it takes a long time, but it only takes me about a minute or so per cone. Then I fold them all back up at once. This makes a big spread out mass of filters.

Then, I put the filter mass in the middle of the toilet paper tube and add flies. Before I started doing this, I felt like I was loosing a lot of flies when the filters would sink into the media - all the pupa on the filter that sinks die. This method seems to keep the filters from sinking into the media.


----------



## steelcube (Mar 17, 2004)

I'd fill it with excelsior to about 2-3 inches from the bottom then "plant" coffee filters all the way to media. 

The coffee filters, when wet, will "filter" some of the mess that excelsior made and the excelsior will hold the CF from collapsing.


----------



## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

I use this filter stuff, it comes in a big sheet. I cut it to size, spread it and toss it in the cup. It's cheap and works well enough for me. It sure isn't messy! I think I don't really get as many flies per culture as some of the pros, but it works for someone like me with a small collection.


----------



## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Dave,

That’s a great idea. Do the flies pupate on that stuff? From your picture it looks like they are only pupating on the sides of the containers.

I use index cards. I fold them accordion style, three cards thick. I use three sets of three per culture. This provides pupation area without any mess. I think I may try using more sets of cards in my next few cultures.


----------



## wax32 (May 9, 2006)

Yes, they do to some extent. Probably not nearly as much as on coffee filters and what not, but it's SOOO simple and I have WAY too many flies anyway!









BTW, a little off topic, but I tried putting some cultures on top of my reef-tank canopy for some warmth... not a good idea, they are *way* gooey! Still producing flies, though when I feed them out they are a little sticky so they get extra vitamins and calcium LOL.


----------



## Arklier (Mar 1, 2004)

If your cultures are gooey it means they're too wet. Just add a pinch or two of dry media and they will firm up on their own.


----------



## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

I'm surprized no one has mentioned using body sponges. We have used them for about 2 years now, and can't imagine using anything else!! Absolutely no mess!

Mike
http://www.snmreptiles.com


----------



## Grassypeak (Jun 14, 2005)

Mike,

What the heck is a body sponge?


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

snmreptiles said:


> I'm surprized no one has mentioned using body sponges. We have used them for about 2 years now, and can't imagine using anything else!! Absolutely no mess!
> 
> Mike
> http://www.snmreptiles.com


sounds dirty. Hehe, jk.


----------



## snmreptiles (Feb 26, 2004)

I don't know how else to describe it, maybe a spoofy?? We use them in the shower with liquid body soaps?! Actually I found a picture for you!










You can get approximately 10 to 12 cultures per sponge!!

Mike
http://www.snmreptiles.com


----------



## titan501x (Dec 7, 2006)

that brillant(i can't spell)! I'm gonna try that!


----------



## pl259 (Feb 27, 2006)

I too tried the body sponges and went back to coffee filters. I found the sponges, which are just bunched up tubular plastic netting, at the dollar store for next to nothing. They don't regulate the moisture in the culture which is OK but harder to do in my setup. My biggest problem was that even though I got good yields, it was hard as heck to tap the flies out of the cup. The flies kinda got caught in the netting. Perhaps I needed netting with bigger holes. I set aside the idea for now.

The sponges act very much like plastic excelsoir with the added plus that they might be reusable, which is what attracted me to the idea.

YMMV,
EricG.NH


----------

