# Please please help! What are these webs?



## Texas Frogger (Mar 15, 2021)

I recently started a new bioactive tank 1 week ago. On the 2nd or 3rd day, overnight, some web like structures started forming within the zoomed dried moss. Please help! I want to add dart frogs in the next 1- 2 months but fear that this will spoil my whole tank! I have added springtail and isopod cultures. I thoroughly washed my live moss and plants before adding them to the tank. But what are these web like structures? There does not appear to be any movement of spider mites or anything like that. Is this harmful? Will it go away with time. It just looks shocking! Like something out of a scifi/ horror movie! Please hlep!


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## Texas Frogger (Mar 15, 2021)

Texas Frogger said:


> I recently started a new bioactive tank 1 week ago. On the 2nd or 3rd day, overnight, some web like structures started forming within the zoomed dried moss. Please help! I want to add dart frogs in the next 1- 2 months but fear that this will spoil my whole tank! I have added springtail and isopod cultures. I thoroughly washed my live moss and plants before adding them to the tank. But what are these web like structures? There does not appear to be any movement of spider mites or anything like that. Is this harmful? Will it go away with time. It just looks shocking! Like something out of a scifi/ horror movie! Please hlep!
> View attachment 298087


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

I’m pretty sure it’s just mold. Why do you have dead ZooMed moss on your substrate? That’s kind of asking for mold growth (although mold is also not unusual or concerning in a new build).


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

I’ve never understood why people put dried or dead moss in frog tanks. Why wouldn’t companies just ship live moss? Is it because it’s easier to ship and sell or is there a reptile or amphibian that prefers this stuff? I don’t know. I’m pretty sure inhaling dry sphagnum can actually affect your system as well.

Anyone know?


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## Texas Frogger (Mar 15, 2021)

I was really just experimenting with different options. But if it's not harmless I will just let nature take its course! Should I lightly spray it with diluted Hydrogen Peroxide mix once a week? Someone recommended me doing this once a week after a heavy misting to encourage oxygen into the substrate. A 90%water and 10% peroxide mix. Any thoughts on this? Just once a week. To kill off some of the mycelium mold on the surface.


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

FroggerFrog said:


> I’m pretty sure inhaling dry sphagnum can actually affect your system as well.
> 
> Anyone know?


Sphagnum moss can theoretically contain a harmful fungus, so I try to be careful when handling it (you can catch it through cuts on the skin or inhalation). I don’t believe the OP’s dried moss is sphagnum though.






Sporotrichosis | Fungal Diseases | CDC


Sporotrichosis is a rare infection caused by a fungus called Sporothrix. This fungus lives throughout the world in soil and on plant matter such as sphagnum moss, rose bushes, and hay.




www.cdc.gov








Texas Frogger said:


> I was really just experimenting with different options. But if it's not harmless I will just let nature take its course! Should I lightly spray it with diluted Hydrogen Peroxide mix once a week? Someone recommended me doing this once a week after a heavy misting to encourage oxygen into the substrate. A 90%water and 10% peroxide mix. Any thoughts on this? Just once a week. To kill off some of the mycelium mold on the surface.


Hydrogen peroxide will kill off any living moss that it touches. You could just remove the dead moss.


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## Enaykudisi (Dec 6, 2020)

I agree with the mold id. Springtails could take care of that. Or time. New builds tend to get a mold bloom but _generally_ calm down after a couple weeks. But if it's really concerning you, I'd recommend just removing the moss that the mold is eating and either leave that spot bare for plants to grow in to or put something living in. Really diluted (like 1 tablespoon 3% h2o2) isn't going to do much damage to the living plants and moss, but heavy use over time could. 



FroggerFrog said:


> I’ve never understood why people put dried or dead moss in frog tanks. Why wouldn’t companies just ship live moss? Is it because it’s easier to ship and sell or is there a reptile or amphibian that prefers this stuff? I don’t know. I’m pretty sure inhaling dry sphagnum can actually affect your system as well.
> 
> Anyone know?


Technically breathing in anything other than air is harmful. I'd put it in the same COPD causing group as sawdust. Would take years of breathing the particles in, but it'll add up eventually


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

The moss isn't useful in a frog viv, so removing it would be a good idea.

Mold blooms of various sorts will occur in a new viv, and in establishing vivs, and in established vivs. Mold will grow anywhere there is moisture and organic substances, both of which are everywhere. Killing off an existing mold won't keep it away. 

Posting pics of your viv and describing misting and ventilation, and listing parameters can help folks here to diagnose any issues that might contribute to excess mold growth.


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

Harpspiel said:


> Sphagnum moss can theoretically contain a harmful fungus, so I try to be careful when handling it (you can catch it through cuts on the skin or inhalation). I don’t believe the OP’s dried moss is sphagnum though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never knew about that, that's freaky. Especially for someone who grows roses, works with sphagnum frequently, and touches plant matter multiple times every day. I have several orchids potted in sphagnum next to me right now!


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Kribensis said:


> Never knew about that, that's freaky. Especially for someone who grows roses, works with sphagnum frequently, and touches plant matter multiple times every day. I have several orchids potted in sphagnum next to me right now!


I know! As both an orchid grower and paludarium owner, I handle a lot of LFS. As far as I can tell, incidents of sporotrichosis from sphagnum are really rare, and are more common from cuts than inhalation. I think I'm going to start wearing nitrile gloves when directly handling it though.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Kribensis said:


> Never knew about that, that's freaky. Especially for someone who grows roses, works with sphagnum frequently, and touches plant matter multiple times every day. I have several orchids potted in sphagnum next to me right now!


You want to know what’s even more freaky?
Here’s a bit from the CDC:

“Symptoms of disseminated sporotrichosis depend on the body part affected. For example, infection of the joints can cause joint pain that may be confused with rheumatoid arthritis. Infections of the central nervous system can involve difficulty thinking, headache, and *seizures*.”

SEIZURES! I’m never going to think of sphagnum the same again…


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

I have been reckless with particulates as who has time to get a mask lets just get this in the can. The stuff I would hack up jeez I was dumb. But really there wasnt time... shrug thing.


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

Harpspiel said:


> I know! As both an orchid grower and paludarium owner, I handle a lot of LFS. As far as I can tell, incidents of sporotrichosis from sphagnum are really rare, and are more common from cuts than inhalation. I think I'm going to start wearing nitrile gloves when directly handling it though.


Same, best not to take chances.


FroggerFrog said:


> You want to know what’s even more freaky?
> Here’s a bit from the CDC:
> 
> “Symptoms of disseminated sporotrichosis depend on the body part affected. For example, infection of the joints can cause joint pain that may be confused with rheumatoid arthritis. Infections of the central nervous system can involve difficulty thinking, headache, and *seizures*.”
> ...


Ok, I'm now not ever going near sphagnum without a gas mask and super thick gloves. Good to know I have possibly seizure-inducing moss laying 10 feet from where I'm sitting right now! Thanks internet!


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## Harpspiel (Jan 18, 2015)

Kribensis said:


> Same, best not to take chances.
> 
> Ok, I'm now not ever going near sphagnum without a gas mask and super thick gloves. Good to know I have possibly seizure-inducing moss laying 10 feet from where I'm sitting right now! Thanks internet!


I mean, not trying to spread fear here, seizures are a _very_ rare and unlikely outcome: _if_ you get a skin infection from a cut coming in contact with a bag of sphagnum that has _Sporothrix schenckii _(which is in itself rare) that infection could, in very rare cases in people with weakened immune systems, spread internally...I don't know that a gas mask is necessary, but you do you.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Harpspiel said:


> I mean, not trying to spread fear here, seizures are a _very_ rare and unlikely outcome: _if_ you get a skin infection from a cut coming in contact with a bag of sphagnum that has _Sporothrix schenckii _(which is in itself rare) that infection could, in very rare cases in people with weakened immune systems, spread internally...I don't know that a gas mask is necessary, but you do you.


That’s a relief...

Seizures are not cool and the last thing I need is a trip to the hospital, all because of some infected sphagnum moss.


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## Kribensis (Jan 14, 2021)

Harpspiel said:


> I mean, not trying to spread fear here, seizures are a _very_ rare and unlikely outcome: _if_ you get a skin infection from a cut coming in contact with a bag of sphagnum that has _Sporothrix schenckii _(which is in itself rare) that infection could, in very rare cases in people with weakened immune systems, spread internally...I don't know that a gas mask is necessary, but you do you.


Lol, yeah, I know. Still though, IT'S GAS MASK TIME BABY WOOOOO!


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## Kmc (Jul 26, 2019)

Dang i should so be dead by now.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

There are quite a few medically significant risks involved with keeping exotics. _Mycobacterium marinum _(from aquatics) is challenging to treat. Herptile-associated Salmonellosis cases number in the tens of thousands yearly in the US. Taking precautions with everything related to pets -- washing hands, not breathing particulates, keeping everything separate from food handling areas, supervising children's activities around exotics -- should be on keepers' minds at all times.


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> There are quite a few medically significant risks involved with keeping exotics. _Mycobacterium marinum _(from aquatics) is challenging to treat. Herptile-associated Salmonellosis cases number in the tens of thousands yearly in the US. Taking precautions with everything related to pets -- washing hands, not breathing particulates, keeping everything separate from food handling areas, supervising children's activities around exotics -- should be on keepers' minds at all times.


One thing I will petition for is the spread of frequent reminders that it’s not just the animals care but *yours* as well.

I often look through care sheets and I often don’t spot anything on the diseases and infections that these animals can emit. This is important as salmonella is potentially life-threatening. (rarely however) I think it’s common sense not to eat a slice of pizza without washing your hands after you cleaned all of your cresties poop, but would you eat a slice of pizza after you planted a beautiful orchid in your tank without washing your hands afterwards? (of course not. this is specifically aimed at new hobbyists.) The information needs to be spread more and I could even suggest a thread to be made in the Beginners Discussion section.

I would hate to see people suffer from these vile infections (etc.) just because they did something wrong. I would _love _to see information like this spread to newer hobbyist. Even members like @Kribensis and even myself didn’t know the effects of sporotrichosis.

If anyone thinking of making a care sheet on the general care of a species, genus, or heck, even a family, please keep this in mind.


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## Socratic Monologue (Apr 7, 2018)

My point wasn't that exotics are particularly disease-ridden (they're not), but rather that whether or not there is a species of fungus associated with sphagnum, a keeper who doesn't take basic precautions is putting themselves at risk for something detrimental. The sphagnum fungus doesn't raise the risk of any of the things we do here -- failing to practice basic bodily safety does. 

Also -- that fungus occurs in all sorts of organic substrate materials, not just sphagnum:



Epidemiologic Notes and Reports Sporotrichosis Associated with Wisconsin Sphagnum Moss


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## FroggerFrog (Jan 11, 2021)

Socratic Monologue said:


> My point wasn't that exotics are particularly disease-ridden (they're not), but rather that whether or not there is a species of fungus associated with sphagnum, a keeper who doesn't take basic precautions is putting themselves at risk for something detrimental. The sphagnum fungus doesn't raise the risk of any of the things we do here -- failing to practice basic bodily safety does.
> 
> Also -- that fungus occurs in all sorts of organic substrate materials, not just sphagnum:
> 
> ...


That’s my point as well. We have to know that preparation of these kinds of infections and whatnot, is decreasing the risk of catching a disease. (etc.) No, there is no need to be scared of these things and catching these are mostly extremely rare, but what happens if it does? Preparation is key and that’s what should be spread around. Not ignorance or fear of exotics.

I can list a few thing on the top of my head:
Hay, roses, and cats (rare occasions) are all things that can spread the fungus. Like you said, there’s more that carry it. It’s like E. Coli doesn’t just come from lettuce.

EDIT: aren’t we getting off topic? Well, let me pack my bags.


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## Cawdeen (Jan 1, 2019)

You are good. This is normal. New organic things all getting mixed together- soil, leaf litter, plants, moss- the mold and funguses need to establish themselves. It usually explodes in the beginning as one or two species get the upper hand. Eventually things level off. A network of mold throughout the soil is pretty much a requirement of plant health and helps the roots acquire nutrients. You do however want it to be in check.

Killing it will only stop the progress of reaching a healthy soil state.

Take out the dead moss, leave the live stuff if you wish, dump in a healthy amount of springtails. Make sure you have leaf litter.

A temporary method of slowing an explosion of mold growth is to upset the moisture level by spraying it with a little stream of water. This is only very temporary and just acts like a speed bump. Obviously you don’t want to turn your viv into a swamp so you might skip this if you don’t know how your viv handles water yet.

The long term fix is healthy soil with a variety of species of mold and funguses, springtails and isopods. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheRainforestExhibit (Dec 3, 2018)

Texas Frogger said:


> I recently started a new bioactive tank 1 week ago. On the 2nd or 3rd day, overnight, some web like structures started forming within the zoomed dried moss. Please help! I want to add dart frogs in the next 1- 2 months but fear that this will spoil my whole tank! I have added springtail and isopod cultures. I thoroughly washed my live moss and plants before adding them to the tank. But what are these web like structures? There does not appear to be any movement of spider mites or anything like that. Is this harmful? Will it go away with time. It just looks shocking! Like something out of a scifi/ horror movie! Please hlep!
> View attachment 298087


Ventilation issue. I had this too...raised my ventilation, ALL gone! Just make sure to keep your humidity high as well!


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